the pædo-baptists apology for the baptized churches shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent, and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity : also the promise of the spirit [b]eing the substance of a sermon on i cor. , i, to which is added a post-script out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the pædo-baptists apology for the baptized churches shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent, and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity : also the promise of the spirit [b]eing the substance of a sermon on i cor. , i, to which is added a post-script out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . taylor, jeremy, - . [ ], p. s.n.], [london : . place of publication suggested by wing. imperfect: cropped, tightly bound and slightly faded with some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- corinthians, st, xii, -- sermons. infant baptism. baptists -- apologetic works. imposition of hands. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the paedo-baptists apology for the baptized churches , shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent . and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity . also the promise of the spirit ●eing the substance of a sermon on cor. . . to which is added a post-script . out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery . by tho. grantham . mr. perkins on gal. . . baptism alone is no mark of gods child , but baptism joyned with faith , for so must the text be consideres . all the galations that believe are baptized into christ . printed in the year . . to the reader . friend , i have a few things to say before thou read this ensuing apology , and first , the occasion of it is from the late unkind usages which the baptized churches have received from the paedo-baptists , by violently dispersing their assemblies , by defacing and taking away their meeting places , by imprisoning their persons , seizing and wasting their estates , by injuring them in their trade by means of excommunications , by writs de capiendo and other penall proceedings both confining their persons and exposing them to great inconveniencies . and all this only ( as i conceive for their conscionable observance of the will of god in preaching the gospel to sinners ●●r the obedience of faith , and for adhearing to that form of doctrine once deli●ered to the saints heb. . , . in which doct●ine and sufferings being through the mercy of god a pertaker with them , i thought i might lawsully write an apology for them , or at least for the truth professed by them . and that i might the ●ore effectually do this i chose to speak ●o their advers●ries by the learned ●ens of their own doctors . . my design in writing this apo●ogy , is to abate ( if it may be ) that great enmity which hath appeared generally between the parties concerned ; and more perticularly that spirit of opposition and disresp●ct which too much appears in the more refined sort of the paedo-baptists , against such as labor to reform ( or rather to restore ) the doctrine of baptism , to its first integrity and estimation among all that profess the name of our lord jesus christ , under what epethets or den●minations soever . and me thinks th● truth should prevail with all that do consider the authority and force thereof to be such that men are constrained ( as it were to speak for it though to the overthrow of their dearest errours , so that we may say their rock is net as our rock , our enemies being judges . . i have not injured the sense of my authours , and where i have added any thing for explycation of any word or passage , i have distingushed the same partly by a different letter , and partly by this character [ ] nor have i said much in the apology , as indeed it was not necessary , considering the evidence of the word of god for us , and the record which our opposers do bear in favour of our cause ; and beside they that will may see what may be further said in the case depending , if they please to peruse the learned works of those of our way , viz. denn his answer to dr. featley , tombs , his antipaedo-baptist , fisher his christianismus rediv●vous , and many others . . the second part intitled of the promise of the spirit , i though fit to be annexed , because acts . , . such as are baptized with the baptism of repentance for remission of fins , have the promise of the spirit made to them , which being sought for in the way ordained of god , shall be received according to his will for he is faithfull that promised . thy servant in christ , tho. grantham , the paedo baptists apologie for the baptized churches , &c. there is no point of the christian faith , of greater importance in order to the composure of divisions among such as conscientiously profess the name of christ , then the doctrine of holy baptisme , in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins ; for as many as have been baptixed into christ have put on christ . and where this foundation truth hath been neglected or essentially corrupted , there hath ensued great disorder in religion , because the being of the church ( as visible ) is so concern'd therein , that there can be no orderly proceeding in any church act , nor participation in any church priviledge , where sacred baptisme is not antecedent . and though reformation ( or rather the restoration ) of this truth be hard to accomplish , yet must we not be discouraged , but still pursue all lawful and probable wayes to effect it in this , as well as in other cases . and the way which i have chosen to help on this needful work at this time is to shew , that ( notwithstanding the discord in point of practice , yet ) there is a very great concord in doctrine , touching the main questions which concern this heavenly institution , between the paedo-baptists , and the baptized churces . the questions are these . . what are the qualifications required of all such as are to be bapt●zed . . what is the aue act or right form to be observed and done in this solemn rite of baptisme . touching the first , the doctrine of the baptized churches is well known , namely , that repentance toward god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ are prerequisites to the baptisme of every sinner . and to this agrees the holy scripture with full consent , ●aying , repent and be baptized every one of you . they were all baptized confessing their sins . when they beleived philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god &c. they were baptized both men and women , many of the corinthians hearing , believe'd and were baptised . and hence this holy ordinance is well called the laver of regeneration ; the baptisme of repentance , fo●th● r●mis●ion of sins . now let us hear the doctrine of the paedo-baptists touching this question . . the church of england both in her articles and vulgar catechism , delivers her mind clearly to this purpose , that such repentance whereby sin is forsaken , and such faith as by which the promises of god are stedfastly beleived , is required of persons ( meaning all persons ) which are to be baptized , and that in baptism faith is confirmed &c. . m● . perkins ) a learned son of ●he same church ) upon these words , ●each all nations baptizeing them . saith , i explain the words thus ▪ ( mark , first of all it is said teach them , that is make them my disciples by calling them to believe , and to repent . here we are to consider , the order which god observes in makeing with man the covenant in baptism , first of all he calls them by his word and commands them to beleive and repent , then in the second place god makes his promise of mercy and forgiveness ▪ and thirdly he feals his promise by baptism — they that know not , nor consider this order which god used in covenanting with them in bapti●m deal preprosterously , oversliping the commandment of repenting and b●leiving — this is the cause of of so much profaneness in the world — we see what is done in baptism , the covenant of grace is solemniz'd between god and the party baptized , and in this covenant something ▪ belongs to god , some to the party baptized , the actions of the party baptized is a certain stipulation , or obligation , whereby he bindeth himself to give homage to the father , son , and holy ghost . this homage standeth in faith , whereby all the promises of god are beleieved , and in obedience to all his commandements . the sign of this obligation , is that the party baptized willingly yeilds himself to be washed with water . . diodate on the same text , teaches that baptism is a sacrament of grace in remission and expiation of sins , and regeneration to a new life . and likewise for a token that they are bound on there side ( meaning such as are baptized ) to consecrate themse●ves to god , and to give themselves over to the conduct of 〈◊〉 spirit , and to confesse his name perpetually . [ thus these three witnesses do concurre with the truth and therein do hold a concord with the baptized churches . and one would think there should now be no place for such a conceit , as that infants are fit subjects for the sacred ordinance of baptism , because wholly uncapable of these qualifications . now whereas div●r● things are pretended as grounds for infant baptism , we shall briefly recount the particulars which are chiefly insisted on , and then show how the same are refelled or made void by some of the most learned asserters of paedo-baptism . the grounds pretended are these . . the covenant which god made with abraham and his seed , gen. . who were to be circumcised ( to wit the makes only ) in their infancy , this is thought to be a type of baptism , and hence 't is conceived that infants ought ●o be baptized . . christs permi●●ing infants to be brought to him , as persons to whom the kingdome belongs . . they being tainted with original sin , must be cleansed from it , which is supposed to be done by baptism . . because it is said except a man be born of water &c. he cannot enter into the kingdome of god. john . . because infants do not ponere obicem , and so are more fit for baptism then adult persons , as 't is thought . . because without baptism parents can not hope the salvation of dying infants ( as some think . ) . the promise of the holy ghost , acts . , is thought to belong to infants , and so they ought to be baptized because they are said to be holy . . unless infants be baptized 't is thought god is worse to infants in the gospel , then in the law. . infants are a par● of all nations , and the command for baptizing is of extent to all nations . . 't is thought the apostles baptized infants because they baptized whole housholds , and 't is said , it hath descended to this very age as a tradition apostolical . to all which , doct. jer. taylor ( and others ) in behalf of the baptized churches , do give answer as followeth . that this is a goodly harangue , which upon strict examination will come to nothing ; that it pretends fairly , and signifies little ; that some of those allegations are false , some impertinent , and all the rest insufficient . for the argument from circumcision , is invalid ( or of no wright ) upon infinite considerations , figures and types prove nothing , unless a commandment go along with them , or some express ●o signifie such to be their purpose : for the deluge of waters and the ark of noah were a figure of baptism s●id pe●●r : and if therefore the circumstances of one should be drawn to the other , we should make baptism a prodigie , rather then a rite . the pascal lamb was a type of the eucharist which succeeds the other as baptism doth circumcision , but because there was in the manducation of the pascal lamb , no prescription of sacramental drink , shall we thence conclude that the eucharist is to be ministred but in one kind ? and even in the very instance of this argument supp●sing a correspondence of analogie betwen circumcision and baptism , * yet there is no correspondence of identity : for although it were granted that both of them did consign the covenant of faith , yet there is nothing in circumstance of childrens being circumcised that so concerns that m●stery , but that it might very well be given to children , and yet baptism to men of reason ; because circumcision left a character in the flesh , whi●h being imprinted upon infants did its work to them when they came to age , and such a character was necessary , because there was no word added to the sign ; but baptism imptints nothing that remains on the body , and if it leaves a character at all it is upon the soul to which also the word is added , which is as much a part of the sacrament as the sign it self is * for both wch reasons it is very requisite that the persons baptized should be capable of reason , that they may be capable of both the word of the sacrament and th● impress made upon the spirit . since therefore the reason of this pa●ity does wholly fail , there is nothing left to infer a necessity , of complying in this circumstance of age , any more then in the other anexes of the type : and the case is clear in the bishops question to c●p●iu● , for why should not infants be baptized just upon the eight day as well as circumcised , if the correspondence of the rites be an argument to infer one circumstance which is impertninent and accidental to the misteriousness of the rite , why should it not infer all [ especially such a material thing as the time of baptism , for if the eight day be not determined , no man is able to assign the day of baptism , which being delayed till the tenth or twentieth day , may by the same reason be deferred till the child have passed through its infancy , and become capable of e●udition ] and then also females must not be baptized because they were not circumcized , but it were more proper , if we would understand it aright , to prosecute the analogie of the type to the antitipe by way of letter and spirit , and signification , and as circumcision signifies baptism so also the adjuncts of circumcision shall signifie something spiritual in the adherences of baptism . and therefore as infants were circumcised , so spiritu●l infants shall be baptized , which ( according to some ) is spiritual circumcision [ which yet is better expounded by st. paul. phil. . where he makes the spiritual circumcision to be the mind and spirit renewed , and the putting of the body of the sins of the flesh ] for therefore babes had the ministery of the type to signifie that we must when we give our names to christ , become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 children in malice , [ for unless you become like one of these little ones you cannot enter into the kingdome of heaven ] said our blessed saviour , and then the ●ye is made compleat , and this seems to have been the sence of the p●imative church , for in the ages next to the apostles , they gave to all baptized persons mi●k and hony to represent to them their duty , that though in age and understanding they were men , yet they were babes in christ , and children in malice . but to infer the sence of the paedo baptists , is so weak a manner of arguing , that augustin whose device it was ( and men use to be in love with their own fancies ) at the most pretended it but as probable [ lo here the newness of the argument , from infant circumcision , to infant baptism . [ as for the catholicks they hold it an absurd thing to argue as the protestants do , from the covenant made with abraham and his seed , gen . . thus they speak . that prom●se concerns literally pecuculiar pro●●ction , and ●orldly felicity , not the remission of sins and everlasting life , neither can we be sons of abraham by carnal generation , or by our carnal paren●s ( we are not jews but gentiles ) but only by spiritual generation ( to wit baptism ) by which we are born to god , and made the brothers of chr●●t● the sons of abraham , th●se ( saith st. paul ) are the sons of abraham , not who are the sons of the flesh but of faith rom. . . . again they deride the argument drawn from infants being circumcised in order to their being baptized , calling it a cunning argument by which it will follow that females are not to be baptized , &c. ] and as ill success will they have with the other arguments as with this for from the action of christs blessing infants to inser that they are to be baptize , proves nothing so much as that there is a great want of better arguments , the conclusion would be with more probability derived thus ; christ blessed children and so dismissed them , but baptized them not , therefore infants are not to be baptized , but let this be as weak as it's enemy , yet that christ did not baptize them , is an argument sufficient that christ hath other wayes of bringing them to heaven . he passed his act of grace upon them by benediction and imposition of hands . and therefore though neither infants nor any man in puris naturalibus can attain to a supernatural end without the addition of some instrument or means of gods appointing ordinarily , yet where god hath not appointed a rule nor an order , as in the case of infants , we contend he hath not , this argument is invalid ▪ and as we are sure that god hath not commanded infants t● be baptised , so we are su●e god will do them no injustice , nor damn them for what they cannot help . and therefore let them be pressed with all the inconveniences which a●e consequent to original sin , yet either it will not be laid to their charge , so as to be sussicient to condemn them ; or if it could , yet the mercy and absolute goodness of god will secure them , if he take them away before they can glorifie him by a free obedience . quid ergo fostivat innoceus alis ad remissionem p●ccatorum ? was the question of tertullian ( lib. de bapt . ) he knew no such danger from their original guilt , as to drive them to a laver of which in that age of innocence they had no need , as he conceived ▪ and therefore there is no necessity of flying to the help of others , for tongue , and heart , and faith , & predispositions to baptism ; for what need all this stir ? as infants without their own consent , without any act of their own . and without any exteriour solemnity , contracted the guilt of adams sin , and are lyable to all the punishment which can with justice descend upon his posterity who are personally innocent ; so infants shall be restored without any solemnity or act of their own , or any other for them , by the second adam by the redemption of jesus christ by his righteousness and mercies , applyed either immediately , or how , or when he pleases to appoint [ and to this agrees that saying of the apostle as in adam all dye , so in christ shall all be made alive ; and as by the disobedience of one many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous ] and so austins argument will come to nothing without any need of god-fathers , or the faith of any body else . and it is too narrow a conception of god almighty , because he hath tyed us to the observation of ceremonies of his own institution , that therefo●e he hath tyed himself to it . many thousand ways there are by which god can bring any reasonable soul to himself : but nothing is more unreasonable , then because he hath tyed all men of years , and discretion to this way , therefore we of our own heads shall carry infants to him that way without his direction : the conceit is poor and low , and the action consequent to it , is too bold and ventrous , mysterium meum mihi & filiis domus meae . let him do what he please to infants we must not . only this is certain , that god hath as great care of infants as of others , and because they have no capacity of doing such acts , as may be in order to acquiring salvation , god will by his own immediate mercy bring them thither , where he hath intended them ; but to say that therefore he will do it by an external act and ministry , and that confin'd to a particular , viz. this rite & no other , is no good argument unless god could not do it without such means , or that he had said he would not : and why cannot god as well do his mercies to infants now immediately , as he did before the institution either of circumcision or baptism ? [ ●his query is worthy of serious consideration ] however there is no danger that infants should perish for want of this external ministry , much less for prevaricating christs precept , nisi quis renatus fuerit &c. for first the water and spirit in this place [ according to some learnéd expositers ] signifie the same thing : and by water is ment the ●ff●ct of the spirit clensing and purifying the soul , as appears in its parralel place of christs baptizing with the holy ghost and fire — ( but to let pass this advantage and to suppose it to be ment of external baptism [ as that is the most likely sense ] yet this no more infers a necessity of infants baptism , then the other words of christ infer a necessity to give them the holy communion , nisi comediritis carnem filii hominis , & brberitis sanguinem non introibitis in regnum ●aelorum ; and yet we do not think these words sufficient argument to communicate them ; if men therefore will do us justice , either let them give both sacraments to infants as some ages of the church did , or neither , for the wit of man is not able to shew a desparity in the sanction , or in the evergie of its expression ; and therefore they were honest , that understood the obligation to be parralel , and performed it accordingly , and yet because we say they were deceived in one instance , and yet the obligation ( all the world cannot reasonably say but ) is the same : they are as honest and as reasonable that do neither . and since the antient-church did with an equal opinion of necessity give them communion , and yet men now adays do not , why shall men be mor● burthened with a prejudice and nam● of obloquy for not giving the infant● one sacrament , more then they ar● disliked for not affording them the other . if anabaptist shall be ● name of disgrace , why shall not som● other name be invented for them that deny to communicate infants , which shall be equally disgraceful , or else both the opinions signifyed by such names , be accounted no disparagement , but receive their estimate according to their truth ? of which truth since we are now taking account from pretences of scripture , it is considerable the discourse of st. peter which is pretended for the intitleing infants to the promise of the holy ghost , and by consequence to baptism , which is supposed to be its instrument of conveyance , 't is wholly a fancy , and hath nothing in it of certainty or demonstration and not much probability . for besides that the thing it self is unreasonable and the holy ghost works by the heighting and improveing our natural faculties , and therefore is a promise that so concerns them , as they are reasonable creatures , and may have a tittle to it , in proportion to their nature , but no possession or reception of it , till their faculties come into act , besides this , i say , the words mentioned in s. p●t●rs ●rmon ( which are the only record of the promise are interpreted upon a w●a● mistake ; the promise belongs to you and to your children therefore infants are actually receptive o● it in that capacity , that 's the argument : but the reason of it is not yet discovered nor never will [ for indeed it is without reason ] to you and your children , i●s you and your posterity , to you and your children when they are of the same capacity in which you are effectually receptive o● the promise . [ beside the promise of the spirit in this place is refer'd to the gift● of the holy ghost , an● is therefore made t● those who had alread● received it in the quic●ning , or illuminating opperation of it , an● is the po●tion of beleivers as such , and i● consequent to baptism . acts , ▪ and is therefore wrongfully made an argument for the baptizing of infants , wh● ( what ever they may have of the g●aces of the spirit * yet ) have neither need of , nor any capacity to use the gifts of the spirit and therefore evident it is that this promise of the spirit belongs not to infants at all ] and for the allegation of st. paul , that infants are holy if their parents be faithful , it signifie nothing , bu● that they are holy by designation , — [ or according to erasmus they ( to wit infants born of such parents as the o●e being a christian the other not ) are holy leg●●●●ately ; for the conversion of either wife or ●●sband d●th not disso●ve the marriage which was made when both were in u●b●●eif . and however it is true , that au●tin was a great stick●er for paedo-bap●ism , yet he denys that any such thing can ●e deduced from the text in hand , his words ●re these . lib. de pec . mer. remi● . it is to be held without doubling , whatsoever that sanctification was , it was not of power to make christians and remit sins . he might well say so considering that the holiness of the child is derived from the sanctity of the unbeleiver , as the word else being rightly refer'd doth evince , co. . . ] and as the promiss appertains not ( for ought appears ) to infants in that capacity and consistance , — yet baptism is not the means of conveying the holy ghost , for that which peter sayes be baeptized and ye shall receive the holy ghost , signifies no more then this ; first be baptized and then by imposition of the apostles hands , ( which was another mistery and rite ) 〈◊〉 shall receive the promiss of the father and this is nothing but an infinuation of the rite of confirmation , a● to this sense expounded by diver● antient authors ; and in ordinary ministry , the effect of it is not bestowed upon any unbaptized persons , for it is in order next after baptism : and upon this ground peters argument in the case of cornelius was concluding enough , a mojori ad minus , thus the holy ghost was bestowed upon him and his family , which gift by ordinary ministry was consequent to baptism , not as the effect is to the cause , or to the proper instrument , but as a consequent is to an antecedent , in a chain of c●uses accidentally , and by positive institution depending upon each o●her ) god by that miracle did give testimony that the persons of the men were in g●eat dispositions towards heaven , and therefore were to be admitted to these rites which are the ordinary inlets into the kingdome of heaven . but then from hence to argue that where ever there is a capacity of receiving the same grace , there also the same sign is to be administred , and from ●ence to infer paedo-baptism , is an argument very fallatious upon several grounds ; first because baptism is not the sign of the holy ghost , but by another mistery it was conveyed ordinarily , and extraordinarily , it was convey'd independently from any mistery , and so the argument goes upon a wrong supposition . . if the supposition were true , yet the proposition built upon it is false , for they that are capable of the same grace , are not alwayes capable of the same sign , for women under the law of moses although they were capable of the righteousness of faith , yet they were not capable of the sign of circumcision , for god does not alwayes convey his graces in the same manner , but to some mediately , to some immediately ; and there is no better in●tance in the the world of it , then the gift of the holy ghost ( which is the thing now instanc'd in , in this cont●station . ) and after all this least these arguments should not ascertain their cause , they fall on complaining against god , and will not be content with god , unless they may baptize their children but take exceptions that g●d did more for the children of the jews , but why so ? because god made a covenant with their children actually as infants , and concin'd it by circumcision : well so he did with our children too in their proportion . he made a convenant of spiritual promises on his part , and spiritual and real services on ours ; and this pert●ins to children when capable , but made with them as soon as they are alive , and yet not so as with the jews b●bes , for as they rite consign'd them actually , so it was a national and temporal blessing and covenant , and a separation of them from the portion of the nations , a mark●ng them for a peculiar people , and therefore while they were in the wilderness and sep●rate from the commixture of all people they were not at all ci●cumcised but as that ri●e did seal the righteousness of faith , [ which whe●her it did any such thing to an● s●ve to ●braham only ●n m●ch doubten ] so by vertue of i●'s 〈…〉 , and remanem●y in their fl●sh , it did that work when the 〈◊〉 came to age , but in christian infants t●e case is otherwise , for the new covenant being estab●ished upon better promises , is not only to be●ter purposes , but also in a distinct manner to be understood , when their spirits are as receptive of a spiri●ual act or impress as the bodies of jewish children were of the sign of circumcision then it is to be consign'd ; but the business is quickly at an end by saying that god hath done no less for ours , then for their children , for he will do the mercies of a father and creator to them , and he did no more to the other , but he hath done more to ours , for he hath made a covenant with them and built it upon promises of the greatest concernment . — [ and note further we have as much ground of comfort concerning our dying infants , as the faithful had for the first two thousand years , during all which time , the covenant of grace reached to infants , though there was no external ceremony to consign it to infants . ] — for the insinuation of the precept of baptizing all nation , of which children are a part , does as little advantage as any of the rest , because other parallel expressions of the scri●ture do determine and expound themselves to a sence that includes not all persons absolutely , but of a capable condition as ado●ate ●um omnes gentes , & persallirae deo omnes nationes terra . [ and nation shall rise against nation , where infants are excluded ] and divers more . [ but erasmus hath well expounded this text , where he restrains the baptizing to such as are repentant of their former life . as for the conjecture concerning the family of stephan●s , at the best it is but a conjecture , and besides that it is not prov'd that there were children in the family ; yet if that were granted it follows not that they were baptized , because by [ whole families ] in scripture is ment all persons of reason and age within the familie , for it is said of the ruler at capernaum , that he beleived a●d all his house . now you may also suppose that in his house were little babes , that is like enough , and you may suppose that they did beleive too , before they could understand , but that 's not so likely ; and then the argument from baptizing stephen's family may be allowed just as probable : but this is unmanlike to build upon such slight and airy conjectures . but tradition by all means must supply the place of scripture , and there is pretended a tradition apostolical that infants were baptized : but at this we are not much moved , for we who rely upon the written word of god , as sufficient to establish all true religion , do not value the allegations of traditions ; and however the world goes none of the reformed churches can pretend this argument against this opinion , because they who reject t●adition when 't is against them , must not pre●end it at al● for them . but if we should allow the topick to be good , yet how will it be verified ? for so far as it can yet appear , it relies wholly upon the testimony of origen , for from him austin had it . now a tradition apostolical if it be not consign'd with a fuller testimony then of one person , whom all after ages have condemn'd of many errours , will obtain so little reputation among those that kn●w that thing , have upon greater authority pretended to derive from the apostles , and yet f●sly , that it will be a great argument that he is credulous and weak , that shall be de●ermined by so weak probation , in matters of so great concernment . and the truth of the business is , as there was no command of scripture to obliedge children to the susception of it , so necessity of ●ae●o-baptism was not determined in the church till the eight age after christ , but in the year . in the mileritan cou●cel ( a principal of a●r●ca , there was a cannon made for paedo bapt ▪ never till then , i grant it was practised in africa before that time , and they or some of them thought well of it , and though that be no argument for us to think so , yet none of them did ever before , pretend it to be necessary , none to have been a precept of the gospel , st. austin was the first that ever preach'd it to be abso●utely necessary , and it was in his heat and anger against pelag●us who had warm'd and chafed him so in that question ; that it made him innovate in other doctrines , possibly of greater concernment then th●s , and that although this was practic'd antiently in africa yet that it was without an opinion of necessity , and not often there , nor at all in other places , we have the testimony of a learned paedo baptist ludovicus vives who in his annotations upon augustin de civit. dei. l. . c. . afirms . neminem nisi adultum antiquitus sol●re baptizari . [ and because th●s testimony is of great import i will set down the very words of augustine and ludovicus vives , as i find them in the english edition of the said book of the city of god , cap. . where augustine puts forth this question . what is the reason then that we do spend so much time in our exhortations , endeavouring to annimate th●se whom we have bapt●zed , ei●her unto virginity , or c●●st widdow-●ood or honest and honourable marriage ; now upon these words [ ●hose whom we have baptiz●d ] vives comments t●us , least any man should mistake this place , understand tha● in times of old , no man was brought unto baptism , but he was of s●fficient years , to know what that mistical water meant , and to require his baptism , and that sundry times . — i hear that in some cityes of italy they do for the most part observe the antient custome as yet . and it is to be observed that in the margent are two notes , the . is that this is the old manner of baptizing . the , that all this is left out in the paris edition , whence we may note how the writings of the antients are abused , and how ingeniously it is confessed , paedo-baptism is not the old manner of baptizing . and here we will insert some other testimonies from the learned paedo-baptists , touching the novelty of infant baptism . the first is out of robertus fabianus his chron. . part in fol. . where he brings in augustine the monk speaking thus to the brittain bishops ▪ since ye will not assent to my h●sts generally assent ye to me specially in three things , the first is that ye keep easter-day in due form and time as it is ordained the second , that ye give chris●endom to children , &c. but they would not thereof . this was about the fifth age after christ whence its remarkable that infant bap●ism was then opposed by ●he joynt consent of the brita●n bish●ps which were sent to the assembly to consul● the affairs of religion at that time . our next testimony is from the learned casuist hugo grotius who tells us , to defer baptism till ripe years was in old time left at liberty , now the observation is otherwise . plainly giving the case that paedo-baptism is not the old way but a new observation . but here we will again give place to doctor taylor , who saith . that besides that the tradition cannot be proved to be apostolical , we have very good evidence from antiquity that it was the opinion of the primitive church that infan●s ough● not to be baptized . and this is clear in the six●h cannon of the c●unsel of ne●●aesarea . the words * have this sence . a woman 〈…〉 may be baptized when she please ; for her baptism concerns not the child . the reason of the connection of the parts of that cannon is in the following words . because every one in that confession is to give a demonstration of his own choice and election , meaning plainly , that if the baptism of the mother did pass upon the child , it were not fit for a pregnant woman to receive baptism , because in that sacrament , there being a confession of faith which confession supposes understanding , and free choyce , it is not reasonable the child should be consign'd with such a mistery , since it cannot do any act of choice or understanding . the cannon speaks reason , and it intimates a practice which was absolutely universal in the church of interrogating the catechumens concerning the articles of the creed , which is one argument that either they did not admit infants to baptism , or that they did prevaricate egregiously , in asking questions of them , who themselves knew were not capable of giving answer . and to supply their incapacity by the answer of a godfather , is but the same unreasonableness acted with a worse circumstance ; and there is no sensible account can be given of it , for that which some imperfectly murmure concerning stipulations civil performed by tutors in the name of their pupils is an absolute vanity ; for what if by positive constitutions of the romanes such solemnities of law are required in all stipulations , and by indulgence are permitted in the case of a notable benefit acruing to minors . must god be tyed , and christian religion transact her misteries by proportion and complyance with the law of the romanes ? i know god might if he would have appointed godfathers to give answer in behalf of children , and to be f●de-jussors for them , but we cannot find any authority o● ground that he hath and if he had then it is to be supposed he would have given them comission to have transacted the solemnity with better circumsta●ces , and given answers with more truth ▪ and if the godfathers answer in the name of the child [ i do believe ] it is notorious they speak false and ridiculously : for the infant is not capble of be●ieving , and if he were , he were a so capable of dissenting , and how then do they know his mind and therefore tertullian gives advice that the bap●ism of infants 〈◊〉 be deferred till they could 〈◊〉 an account of their faith , and the same also is the counsel of * gregory bishop of naziazum , although he allows them to hasten it in case of necessity , for though his reason taught him what was fit , [ namely that none should b● baptized till they were of understanding yet he was overborn with the practi●● and opinion of his age which began to bear too violently upon him , and yet in another place he makes mention of some to whom baptism was not administred 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by reason of infancy . to which if we add that the parents of st. austin , st. jerome , and st. ambrose , although they were christian , yet did not baptize their children before they were thirty years of age it will be very considerable in the example , and of great efficacy for destro●ing the supposed necessity or derivation from the apostles [ and for further evidence we may well alledge in this place , that of theodosius the emperor born in spain his parents being both christians , and he from his youth educated in th● christian faith , who falling sick at thess●onica , was baptized and recovered of his sickness . but however ( paedo baptism ) it is against the perpetual analog● of christs doctrine to baptize infants , for besides that christ never gave any precept to bap●ize them , nor never himself nor his apostles ( that appears ) did baptize any of them , all that either he or his apostles said concerning baptism , requires such pretious dispositions to it , of which infants are not capable , and these are faith and repentance , and not to instance in those innumerable places that require faith before baptism , there needs no more but this one saying , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , but he that believeth not shall be damned . plainly thus , fai●h and baptism in conjunction will bring a man to heaven , but if he have not faith baptism shall do him no good . so that if baptism be necessary , then so is faith , and much more ; for want of faith damns absolutely , it is not said so of the want of baptism . now if this decretory sence be to be understood of persons of age , and if children by such an answer ( which indeed is reasonable enough ) be excused from the necessity of faith , the want of which regularly does damn , then it is sottish to say the same incapacity of reason and faith , shall not ●xcuse them from the actual susception of baptism which as less necessary , and to which faith and many other acts are necessary predispositions when it is reasonably and humanely ●eceived . the conclusion is that bap●sm is also to be defer'd till the time of ●aith , and whether infants have faith or no , is a question to be disputed by ●ersons that care not how much they 〈◊〉 ▪ nor how little they prove . . personal and actual faith they have none , for they have no acts of ●nderstanding , and besides how can ●ny man understand that they have , since he never saw any sign of i● neither was he told so by any o●● that could tell . . some s●y they have imputativ● faith , but then so let the s●cramen● be too , that is , if they have the parent faith or the churches , then so le● baptism be imputed by derivatio● from them also . — for since faith 〈◊〉 necessary to the susception of baptis● ( and they themselves confess it b● striving to find out new kinds of fait● to daub the matter up ) such as th● faith is , such must be the sacramen● for there is no proportion betwee● an actual sacramen , and an imputative faith , this being in immedia●● and necessary order to that , an● whatsoever can be said to take o● from the necessi●y of actual faith , a● that and much more may be said t● excuse from the actual ●usception 〈◊〉 baptism . . the first of these devices wa● that of luther and his schol ar● the of calvin and his ; and yet there is a third device which the church of rome teaches , and that is , that infants have habitual faith , but who told them so ? how can they prove it ? what revela●ion , or reason teaches such a thing ? are they by this habit so much as disposed to an actual belief without a new master ? ●an an infant sent into a mahumetan province be more confident for christianity when he comes to be a , man , then if he had not been baptized , are there any acts precedent concomitant , or consequent to this pretended habit ? this strange invention , is absolutely without art , without scripture , reason or authority . but if there were such a thing as this abitual faith , then either all infants have ● or some only if all why do they deny bap●●sm to the infants which are horn of unbe●evers ? must the child bear the unbelief of 〈◊〉 parents ? * if s●me only have it , how know they these from 〈◊〉 rest , sith when they come to years , there found a like barrenness of this grace 〈◊〉 means be used to beget it ? but third where doth the scripture make an habit●● faith that which intitles any person to ba●tism ? surely according to these conc●●● no man can ever tell to whom , or when 〈◊〉 dispence baptism . ] but the men are ●● be excused unless there were bett●● grounds ; but for all these stratage● the argument now alleadged agai● infant baptism is demonstrable a● unanswerable . to which also this considerati●● may be added , that if baptism be ●●cessary to the salvation of infant upon whom is the imposition lai● to whom is the command give● to parents or to the children , not 〈◊〉 the children , for they are not cap●ble of a law ; not to the parents , 〈◊〉 then god hath put the salvation 〈◊〉 innocent babe● into the power of ●thers , and infants may then be damn●● for their parents carelessness or m●lice . it follows that it is not necessary at all to be done to them , to whom it cannot be prescribed by a law , and in whose behalf it cannot be reasonably intrusted to others with the appendant necessity , and if it be not necessary , it is certain it is not reasonable , and most certain it is no where in terms prescribed , and therefore it is to be presumed , that it ought to be understood and administred according as other precepts are with reference to the capacity of the subject , and the reasonableness of the thing . for i consider that the baptizing of infants does rush upon such inconveniences , which in other questions we avoid like rocks which will appear if we discourse thus . either baptism produces spiritual effects , or it produces them not : if it produces not any , why is such contention about it ? — but if ( as without all peradventure all the paedo-baptists will say ) baptism does a work upon the soul , producing spiritual benefits and advantages ; these advantages are produced by the externa● work of the sacrament alone , or b● that as it is helped by the co-operation and predispositions of the suscipien● . if by the external work of th● sacrament alone , how does this diffe● from the opus o●eratum of the papist● save that it is worse ? for they sa● the sacrament does not produce in effect , but in a suscipient disposed b● all requisites and due preparatives 〈◊〉 piety , faith , and repentance , thoug● in a subject so disposed they say th● sacrament by its own vertue does i● but this opinion says it does it of 〈◊〉 self without the help , or so much 〈◊〉 the coexistence of any condition bu● meer reception . but if the sacrament does not d● its work alone , but per modum recipien●es according to the predispofition● of the suscipient , then because infant can neither hinder it , nor do an● thing to further it , it does them no benesit at all . and if any man runs for succor to that , exploded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that infants have faith or any other inspired habit of i know not what how , we desire no more advantage in the world then that they are constrain●d to an answer without rev●lation , against reason , common sence and all experience in the world . the sum of the argument in short , is this though under another rep●esentment . either baptism is a meer ceremony or it imploys a duty on our part , if it be a ceremony only , how does it sanctifie us or make the comers thereunto per●ect ? if it imploy● a duty on our part how then can children receive it who cannot do duty at all . and indeed this way of ministration makes baptism to be wholly an outward duty , a work of the law , a carnal ordinance it makes us adheare to the letter , without regard of the spirit , to be satissied with the shadows , to return to bondage . to relinquish the misteriousnes , the substanc● and spirituallity of the gospel , which argument is of so much the more consequence , because under the spiritual covenant , or the gospel of grace , 〈◊〉 the mistery goes not before the symbol ( which it does when the symbol● are seales and consignations of th● grace , as it is said the sacraments are ) yet it always accompanies it , bu● never follows in order of time , an● this is clear in the perpetual analogy of holy scripture . for baptisme is never propounded mentioned or enjoyned as a mean of remission of sins , or of eternal life , but something of duty choice or sanctity is joyned with it , in orde● production of the end so mentione● k●ow you not that s● many as are baptis● in●o ●hr●st jesus an● baptised into his death ? there i● the mistery and the symbol together and declared to be perpetually united 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . all of us who were baptised into one ▪ were baptised into the other , not only in the name of christ , but into his death also ; but the meaning of this , as it is explained in the following words of st. paul , makes much for our purpose : for to be baptised into his death , signifies , to be buried with him in baptisme , that as christ rose from the dead ; we also should walk in newness of life , that 's the full mistery of baptisme ; for being baptised into his death , or which is all one in the next words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into the likeness of his death , cannot go alone ; if we be so planted into christ we shall be pertakers of his resurrection , and that is not here instanced in precise reward but in exact duty for all this is nothing but cruc fiction of the old man , a destroying the body of sin , that we no longer serve sin . this indeed is truly to be baptized both in the symbol and the mistery what is less then this , is but the symbol only , a meer ceremony , an opus operatum , a dead letter , an empty shadow , an instrument , without an agent to manage ; or force to actuate it . plainer yet whosoever are baptized into christ have put on christ , have put on the new man. but to put on the new man , is to be formed in righteousness , holiness , and truth . this whole argument is the very words of st. paul. the major proposition is dogmatically determined , gal. . . the minor in ephes . . . the conclusion then is obvious . that they who are not formed a new in righteousness , holyness and truth , they who remaining in the present in incapacities , cannot walk in newness of life , they have not been baptized into christ , and then they have but one member of the distinction used by st. peter , they have that baptism which is a putting away the fi●th of the flesh [ if yet an human institute may be so called ] but they have not that baptism which is the answer of a good conscience towards god , which is the only baptism which saveth us , and this is the case of children and then the case is thus . as infants by the force of nature cannot put themselves into a supernaturall condition ( and therefore say the paedo baptists they need baptism to put them into it [ as if the ●●re ●e●e●ony of which only they are capa●'le could put them into a supernaturall con●ition ] so if they be baptized before the use of reason , before the works of the spirit , before the opperations of grace , before they can throw of the works of darknes , and live in ri●hteousness ond newness of life , they are never the nearer ; from the pains of hell they shall be saved by the mercy of god and their o●● innocence though they dye in puris naturalibus , and baptism will carry them no further for that baptism that saves us , is not the only washing with water , of which only infant are capable , but the answer of a good conscience towards god , of which they are not capable till the use o● reason , till they know to chuse the good and refuse the evill . and from thence i consider a new that all vows made by persons unde● others names stipulations made b● minors ▪ are not valid till they by ● supervening act , after they are of sufficient age do ratifie the same , wh● then may not infants as well mak● the vow de novo as de novo ratifie th●● which was made for them ab antiqu● when they come to years of choyce ▪ if the infant vow be invalid till th● manly confirmation , why were it 〈◊〉 as good they staid to make it till th● time , before which if they do ma●● it , it is to no purpose , this would 〈◊〉 considered . and in conclusion our way is the surer way , for not to baptise children till they can give an account of their faith is the most proportionable to an act of reason and humanity , and it can have no danger in it : for to say that infants may be damn'd for want of baptism ( a thing which is not in their power to acquire they being yet persons not capable of a law ) is to afirm that of god which we dare not say of any wise and good man. certainly it is very much derogatory to gods justi●e and a plain defiance to the infinite reputation of his goodness . and therefore who ever will pertinatiously persist in this opinion of the paedo-baptists , and practise it accordingly they polute the blood of the everlasting testament . they dishonor and make a pageantry of the sacrament . they ineffectually represent a sepulture into the death of christ , and please themselves in a sign without effect , making baptism like the figtree full-of leaves but no fruit , &c. thus far the anabaptists may argue , and men have disputed against them with so much weakness and conf●dence , that they have been eucouraged in their error [ alias in th● truth ] more by accidentiall [ alia● real ] advantages we have given them by our weak arguings , then by any truth of their cause or excellency o● of their wit [ so the dr. is pleased t● say but the evidences of our side sp●ak otherwise ] but the use i make of it as to our ppesent question ( saith the dr. ) is this , that since there is no● direct impiety in the opinion no● any that is apparently consequent to it , and they which so much p●obabillity , do or may pretend to true perswasion they are with all means , christian , fair , and human , to b● redargued , or instructed , but if they cannot be perswaded they must be left to god , who knows every degree of every mans understanding , all his weaknesses and strength's what impress each argument makes upon his spirit . and how unresistable every reason is , and he alone judges his in●oce●cy and sincerity : and for the question , i think there is so much to be petended [ he might say really urged ] against that which i believe to be truth that there is much more truth then evidence on our side [ a strange saying of so wi●e a man as if the truth in this case doth not wh●lly depend upon evidence , sith its a positive and no morall precept ] and therefore we may be confident as for our own particulars but not too forward premtorily to prescribe to others muchless damn , or kill or to persecute them that only in this particular disagree . thus far doctor taylor , for our appollogie . to whom to add any more witnesses ( though more might be brought ) would be superfluous . i therefore proceed to the next question , viz. what is the due act , or outward form to be used in this sollemn rite of holy baptism ? it may well be the admiration of every wise and good man how it should come into the mind of such as pretend to be followers of christ that holy baptism should be performed by aspertion , or casting a few drops of water upon the subject , by the fingers of the administrator . the scriptures every where teaching us that the originall form was by imversion in rivers or places of much water , ma●● . . john. . christ himse●f who surely would do nothing superfluous or in vain , was baptized in the river , by john the first baptist , who had his direction from heaven , and his approbation from on high in that very action mall . . and chuss who were under the immediate direction of the holy spirit the leader into all truth , found it necessary for the administrator and subject to go both into the water , for the due performance of this holy ordinance . add thereunto that the proper signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when used to express the action done in this service , is to dip or imm●rge the party in the element as is confessed by the learned paedo-baptists themse●ves as we shall see in the sequel . and here we will still prefer the church of england who teacheth us that the outward sign or form in baptism , is water wherein the party baptized is dipped , &c. and though she add [ or sprinkled with it ] yet that her conscience tells her that is not the right way appeareth , in that she only assigns that by indulgence to such infants as are in danger of death , &c , the church of rome also confesseth by a learned pen , that she changed dipping the party baptized over the head and ears to a little sprinkling upon the face . erasmus paraphrasing on the words , baptizing them , mat. . saith thus , if they believe that which you teach them and begin to be repentant of their former life , &c. then dip them in water , &c. walfridus strabo de rebus eccl●s●●c . tells us , that we must know at ●h● fi●st believers were baptized simply in floods and fountains . the learned grotius tel's us in his judgement on infant baptism , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to dip over the head and ears . to whom we will joyn t●lenus whose testimony is in these words * baptism is the first sacrament of the new testament instituted by christ , in which with a most pat and exact analogy between the sign and the thing signified , those that are in covenant are by the minister washed in water . the outward rite in baptism is threefold immersion into the water , abiding under the water , and resurruction out of the water , the form of baptism , to wit internal and essential ▪ is no other then that analogical proportion , which the signs keep with the things signified thereby , for as the properties of the water in washing away the defilements of the body , do in a most suitable similitude , set forth the efficacy of christs blood in blotting out of sins , so dipping into the water doth in a most lively similitude set forth the mortification of the old man , and rising out of the water the virification of the new . — that same plunging into the water holds forth to us that horrible gulf of divine justice in which christ for our sins sake , which he took upon him , was for a while in a manner swallowed up . abode under the water how little a while soever , denotes his descent into hell , even the very deepest degree of livelesness , while lying in the sealed and guarded sepulchre he was accounted as one truly dead , rising out of the water holds out to us a lively similitude of that conquest , which this dead man got ●ver death , which he vanquished in his own den , as it were , that is the grave . in like manner therefore it is meet that we being baptized into his death , and buried with him , should rise also with him and so go on in a new life , rom. . . . col. ● . . th●● far tile●●s . bishop jewell in his defence , appol . ● . . p. . brings the councel of worms determining the manner of baptism ; thus , in aquas demersio in 〈◊〉 , & ●u●sus ab aquis ●emersio r●surrectio est . the dipping into the water is the going down into hell [ i. e. the grave ] the coming out from of the water is the resurrection . from all which testimonies ( and many more that might be brought ) it is evident beyond all doubt our opposers being judges ) that whether we respect the signification of the word baptizor the signification of the ordinance it self , or the consent of the primitive . churches in their practice of holy baptism , dipping the subject ( or party baptized ) in the element water , is the due form of baptism , and therefore sprinkling or crossing the face ; is an humane innovation . or , upon the whole matter these ten particulars are very apparent . first , that infant baptism was innovated , after the holy scriptures were written which appeareth both from the deep silence of the scripture in that case , and the confession of learned paedo-baptists themselves . . that it came in stealing ( as it were ) being for a considerable time left at liberty ( a sign it was not from heaven ) * and was disliked by the antients who therefore disswaded from it . . that which gave it its great advantage for a more general reception , was this false opinion , that without baptism none could be saved . this saith mr. perkins doth st. augustine every where assirm . . that the lords supper was as eagerly pressed , to be necess●ry sor infants as baptism , and they continued in use together about the space of six hundred years , this conceit was confirmed ( saith mr. perkins ) by the councel of toledo , can. . and augustine was so earnest for this also that he boldly sayes in vain do we promise infants salvation without it . aug ep : . & ep . . & contra ep . pelag . l. . c. . & contra . 〈◊〉 . l. . c. . l. . c. . . that divers in the greek church have all along to this day refused infant baptism . gro●ius his words are these ( as mr. t●mbs quotes them ) in every age many of the greeks unto this day keep the custome of deferring baptism to little ones till they could themselves make a confession of their faith. and the armenians are confessed by heylin in his macrocos . p. . to defer baptism to their children till they be grown to years of knowledge . . those foolish and sinful adjuncts , which the authors and promoters of infant baptism , were constrained to invent to make it look like baptism ( for example their device of godfathers , &c. ) do sufficiently declare it to be of an infirm and humane original . . the grounds upon which paedo-baptism was at first urged , are now in a manner wholly declined , and new grounds daily invented whereon to built it . which are no sooner laid , but raized again by some of it's own favorites . . that the stoutest assertors of infant baptism , hath ever met with as stout opposers ; thus agustine , met with the donatists and pelagius whose arguments he could not avoid but by running into greater absurdity , and though they are blamed ( and perhaps justly ) for holding some errours , so also is augustine and that not undeservedly . . that many of the learne● have much abused this age in telling them the anabaptists ( i. e. the baptized churches ) are of late edition a new sect , &c. when from their own writings the clean contrary is so evident . tenthly and lastly . observe how the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , which is that one and only baptism commanded in holy scripture hath been neglected , traduced ; and its affertors frequently abused , and that chiefly by thi● device of paedo-baptism which now hath so lost it 's first form , that it cannot with any shew of truth o● good sence be called baptism , and ought therefore to cease with its follow errors , viz. the giving the ●ords supper to infants , &c. that god may be justified in the submissi●n of all sinners to the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , luke . . the second part of the promise of the spirit . delivered in a sermon upon . cor. . . to which is added a post-script out of the works 〈◊〉 dr. jer. taylor , touching the layin● on of hands , chiefly declaring ho● religiously it was observed by th● antient christians , as it is now revived by divers of the baptize● christians of this age . cor. . . now concerning spiritual gifts brethren i would not have you ignorant . there was never more need for th● church of god to seek and searc● for all those things which god hat● promised for her strength and encou●agement then now partly for that her ●pposers are men of exquisite parts by ●eans of all arts and sciences which ●●e not more profitable when used in 〈◊〉 way of subserviency to the truth , ●●en pernitious when used in opposi●●on to it ( as it often falleth out they ●re ) and partly for that ignorance of ●hat god hath promised for his churches comfortable subsistance , ●roves a great occasion and temptati●● to christians to trust to failing and ●●comfortable helps in the great bu●●ness of the ministry of the word and ●rayer , &c. now in the words which we have ●●osen the apostle shews his care for ●●e church at corinthus ( and in them 〈◊〉 all churches ) that they should not 〈◊〉 ignorant concerning spiritual gifts ●●d labours in three chapters toge●●er to instruct them fully in that point ●●der several considerations , and ●●●st , . by giving them a definition of those gifts , or shewing what they are , verse . . . viz. a word of wisdom , a word of knowledge , faith , the gifts of healing , the working of miracles , prophesie , discerning of spirits , divers kinds of tongues , interpretation of tongues , which definition or enumeration of gifts he seems to inlarge , chap , . . a psalm , a doctrine , &c. . by shewing that the church hath a perpetual right to , and interest in all these gif●s , chap. . . desire sor be zealous after spiritual gifts , chap. ▪ . covet earnestly the best gifts chap. . . covet to prophesie and forbid not to speak with tongues . . by shewing whereto these gifts d●serve , or to what end they were given ▪ chap. . . forasmuch as ye are zealous of the spiritual gifts , seek tha● ye may excel to the edification of th● church , ver . . that all may learn , and all be comforted , eph. . fo● the perfecting the saints for the wor● of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ . . by distinguishing of gifts as they are more or less necessary and accordingly gives direction which to prefer in our asking them ( yet so as not to forbid the use of any of them , so it might be done with edification ) chap. . . desire spiritual gifts but rather that ye may prophesie . ver. . i would have ye all speak with tongues but rather that ye prophesied , for greater is he that prophesieth , then he that speaketh with tongues . ver. . he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifyeth himself , but he that prophesieth edifyeth the church . . by shewing that all these gifts , how excellently soever any are endowed with them , yet therein he is not to rest satisfyed because there is yet a far more excellent way of receiving the s●irit , without which all gifts are as nothing . this more excellent way he refers to the fruit of the spirit , which he both distinguisheth by its several branches , cor. . , , , . compar'd with gal. . . . and also comprehends the whole in that excelling grace of charity follow after charity , chap. . . the greatest of these is charity . . by giving a notable rule to know who are indeed spiritual christians from such as only pretend to be so , chap. . . if any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual , let him acknowledge the things i write unto you are the commands of the lord. those then are not truly spiritual , or true prophets who ( as many on the right hand ) do not only lay aside the commands of the lord , but prescribe to others their own traditions , neither those on the other hand , who prefer their poor conceits and notions , as if the word of god came out from them , when though ( perhaps ) it came to them , yet it came not to them only , ver . . thus much briefly to shew what the apostle means in this place by spiritual gifts , and in what respects he would not have the church to be ignorant concerning them . nor shall i insist upon all those particulars now , but only that which may be most needful to be demonstrated , and that is the second particular . for i find , it is not only a general conceit among the national churches , that the extraordinary gifts of the spirit were only temporary , and now ceased , but also very many in the baptized churches are doubtful ( at the least ) in this matter , as if that glorious promise of pouring out of the spirit according to the prophesie of joel , and the reception thereof by the primitive churches , were taken away long since from the churches which succeed them , and not to be so much as looked for in these days ! but that this is a very great mistake , and that the contrary , even that , that very promise of the spirit and every part of it , from the time of its first effusion upon the day of pentecost , acts . belongs to the church throughout all ages to the end of the world. i hope to evince to the satisfaction such as desire to see the truth in this matter . and first from the scope of the apostle , in these three chapters . where as it is his designed subject to discourse of the gifts of the spirit , so he informs us that god hath set them there , namely in his church , that is , he hath placed , setled or fixed , that one spirit in that one body , nor for a few days only , and then to leave her as a body without a spirit for ever after , in respect of spiritual gifts , but to abide there as in his temple * both by gifts and graces , even the same which christ by vertue of his assention obtained when he ascended on high , which gifts are given to the church for the work of the ministry , for the edification of the body till the whole be compleated . see to this purpose ephes . . from vers ▪ . to . again , the promise of the holy spirit is made by our lord himself to the church for ever . john . . i will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you for ever &c. i say with the church , for it were a strange exposi●ion to restrain this for ever to the age of the apostles ( as some do ) for sith the apostles and first churches could neither pray nor prophysie as they ought , but as that spirit did help their infirmity , it were strange the subsequent should be able to do it though destitute of that distance , seeing prophysie is expresly one of those spirituall gifts , as before we have shewed . that great apostle peter , dates the promise of the holy spirit very largely , acts , . . &c. as descending to the very skirt , or last age of the church of god , even to as many as the lord our god shall call , and he here takes the promise in t●at sence wher● in jo●l meant it , and the church had then received it , which clearly intends both the gifts and graces of the spirit , for as 't is sure they received then very great gifts , so 't is said great grace was upon them all . act● . _____ this very p●omise of the father is by this apostle appropriated to all the called of the lord , even the servants and hand maids in th●se days . now these days must either be a few days at the beginning of the gospel , or it must be referred to the whole time of that glorious dispens●●ion if the first , then how shall all the called of the lord receive it ? or who will tell us when these days expired ? but we know that these days the latter days last time , and last days are used with some frequency in scripture , to point out the time of the gospel as it succeeded the time of the law. during all which time we are sure that the duties in generall ( and perhaps some difficult duties which were not formerly known ) which were imposed upon the first churches , are laid upon the churches to the end of the world , mat. . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you , &c. must the churches now contend earnestly for the faith ( and that both against old and new errors ) must she be the salt of the earth , the light of the world must she strive to preach the gospel of the kingdom to all nations , must she keep her self in the love of god building up her self in her most holy faith , praying in the holy ghost ? surely , if these duties remain , and the lord requires that she should glorifie him in the faithful and constant discharge hereof as also in suffering for his sake ; it cannot reasonably be imagined that he should recall his holy spirit , in the gifts thereof from her who when she had them all , had nothing that was superfluous , but stood in need of all to furnish her for the work she stood ingaged to do , in these forementioned and other like considerations , sith then our god doth require the same service of his churches now , which he required of his churches in the first ages of the gospel , let us not imagine he will require the same brick , and not allow the same straw . that the gifts of the spirit here intendby our apostle are the portion of the church in every age ( as her right ) appeareth , from the nature of these exhortations she is under to ask them . luk. . . how much more shall your heavenly father give his holy spirit to them that ask it — ask and it shall be given unto you . vers , . how frequent is our apostle in these . chapters in his exhortations to this church ( and in them to all others ) to desire spirituall gifts , to covet earnestly the best gifts , to covet to prophesie , wishing that they may speak with tongues , and warning them not to prohibet that gift . now to what purpose is all this if these gifts be ceased and that the church may not now expect them ? i hope no man will say these exhortations are now out of date least in so doing he deprive us of the exhortation to charity , for they are so linked together as the one cannot cease as 't is an exhortation ) before the other . follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts and rather that ye may prophesie . thus we see the church being under perpetual exhortations , to seek for spiritual gifts without any restirction , necessarily infers her perpetual right to them and every of them , which consideration alone is sufficient ( as i conceive ) to satisfie any christian , that the promise of the spirit ( even the same that was given to the first churches ) in respect of gifts as well as graces belongs to the church of christ throughout all ages . let us now consider , whether the church of god do not even now injoy the promised spirit in the gifts and graces of it at this day , for the latter , i think there is none do●h question it , and yet should the graces or fruits of the spirit which now appear , be strictly considered by what did formerly shine forth in the churches , it might peradventure put us to some pause , yet not thence to conclude that we have not that spirit of grace , or that the graces thereof are ceased , but it would surely become a provocation , to cry mightily to god for an enlargement of what we have received in that behalf . and as i intend not to boast of the gifts of any , so i may safely presume that the gifts received in these days are far more then i can set down , or give you account of because the church is diffused through many nations , and her gifts there unknown to me ; i will then restrain my observations to the churches in this poor island , who may not vie with all churches , but rather in humility conclude themselves to be short of many concerning spirituall gifts . and yet , shall we say she hath none ( or may we not rather say she hath many that are endowed with a word of knowledge and that meerly by a gift from god , having otherwise , no capacity or fa●ulty more then others , but therein far short of many of their brethren ; only the gift of god , and no naturall faculty hath made the differance : how have men of knowledge in this world , been found to have no skill , and the foolish to attain knowledge , and some to excell so far , as to confound the wisdome of the wise and to bring to nought the understanding of the prudent , yet out of the mouth of babes hath our god ordained strength , and thereby hath sometimes stilled the enemy . and as wisdome is usefull to direct , so hath god given it to such as fear him ; who if we respect their education &c. could never have acquired it ; some by a word of wisdome here understand , the well ordering of affaires in the church , others the right or usefull applycation of the word &c. surely according to these expositions the church hath some , even by the gift of the spirit of god to go before here in these respects . neither is the gift of healings so abnegated , but that something of it hath appeared , as many living witness by experience have testified , and how far faith ( over and beside the common faith ) hath therein appeared , as also in some other memorable undertakings against sathan himself , or against his designs , with some good success , becomes others to consider more then it doth me to write ! as for me i rest satisfied , that miracles are not ceased as a gift to the church of god , though perhaps they are but rarely found , as being ( in the wisdom of god ) not so necessary now in many places as in times past . now for the gift of p●ophesie , which the apostle here intends , 't is certain the church enjoys it very gratiously in these days sith she hath them that by the gift of gods spirit ( and not by acquired arts ) do minister to her the word of life , by exhortation , to her edification and comfort ; which yet she could not have if the gifts were ceased seeing prophesie is not only one of the spirituall gifts but the very best of them , and the greatest of them all . nor is the spirit of our god removed in the gift of discerning of spirits ; for if it had false spirits had by their subtilty ere this day made havock of the churches , but through the grace of god , notwithstanding all their cunning craftiness they have been discerned , and their designs prevented ; and though perhaps charity for some time hath born with such , in hope of the best , yet this is no other thing then ought to be , as may be seen by the carriage of our lord toward judas , and his apostles towards fome others . the gifts of doctrine and praising our god with a psalme is not yet removed , our teachers ( as taught of god ) remaining in every church ; where also are some that are skillfull in praisiing the lord to the edification of the church ; as for revelations , there might perhaps sometimes be strange or hidden things made known by some speciall gift of god and why may not god do such things now ? however it is not unsafe to understand the revellations here ment , by chap. . . if any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by let the first hold his peace &c. which cannot so well be understood af a new oracle as of some further subject or more full explication of the matter treated on by him that spake first ; according to which interpr●tation we may say the church hath yet the gift of revellations . and thus far we seem to be got safe , not any thing so materiall intervening , as to conclude against the continuance of these spirituall gifts in the church to this day , so that the present repairers of the house or city of god may comfort themselves by the consideration of the words of the prophet , hagg. . . according to the word which i covenanted with you when you came out of egypt , so my spirit remaineth amo●g you , fear ye not . but now the g●ft of tongues and interpretation of tongues , these ! where shall we find them . doubtless these gifts are rarely if at all found in these days , and in this nation , so as to sute with those who frequently in some churches at first received those gifts ; the reasons are many ( but none such as conclude the church from under the promise of these gifts ) as first these gifts differ much from the rest , chiefly in this that they may be supply'd another way , for the conversion of persons of all languages , or such as can speak other languages and interpret the same to others , doth supply the absence of those gifts ; . the churche ( in this and i suppose other nations ) have very little need of these gifts , and therefore considering that they are not so necessary as the rest , the apostle leaves these with a forbid them not , whilst the rest he wills us to c●v●t earnestly . but ? one great cause ( as i conceive ) why these g●fts are so much absent , and the other no more received , i● because we either ask them not at all , or else we ask them amiss . for many have been so ●ar from a king these gifts of the spirit , that in truth they have been arguing that these gifts are not attainable , and then t is no wonder they have not been received . again where there hath been some understanding of the interest we have in those gifts , there faith in asking hath been and is very low , and atended ( perhaps ) with great wavering , and then little can be expected at the hand of the almighty jam. . and here let me premonish you of one thing which ( by my little reading ) i perceive to have been a great provocation to the lord to wi●hdraw his gifts in times p●st ( and i fear it again ) and that was ●and and i doubt is ) an over curious performance , of that which god gave spirituall gifts for , to wit the ministering of the word , when the churches grew populous , and great personages came to her communion , the unwary pastours , let go the simplicity of th● gospell enclining so much to curiosities that some counsells decreed tha● a b●shop should not read heathen authors and gra●ian is said to have this passag● viz. doth not he seem to wa●k in vanit● and da●kness of mind , who vexing himself day a●d night in the studies of logick in the persuite of physicall specula●ion one while elevates himself above the highest heavens and afterward throws himself below the nethermost part of the earth true , the use that may be made o● reading is one thing , and the abuse another ; however let the least gift o● god be preferred in the ministry o● the word , above the greatest of human arts , otherwise we are in danger to incur the guilt of despising prophysyings ▪ lastly the truth in hand appeareth from the silence of scriptures , touching th● privation of any of the gifts of the spi●it till that which is perfect become , . ●or . . . . charity never faileth but whether there be prophesies they shall fail , whether there be tongues they shall cease , whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away , for we know in part and we prophe●●e in part . but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part sha'l be done away . hence observe a finall determination of the matter in question , if any ask when the gifts of prophysie , knowledge and tongues &c. shall cease ? the apostles answer is , even then , when that which is perfect is come , or when we come to see face to face , or as we are seen . so then seeing the gifts of the spirit do yet remain to the church , and every of them ( as her need requires ) are attainable , it remains that we humbly consider our wants , and desire spirituall gifts , you ●ove● earnestly the best gifts . from these considerations i conclude , that howsoever it is too true that the gifts received by the present churches are but low ( and truly so are her graces ) yet thence we may not , we ought not to infer , that the gifts promised are ceased , or that the church hath now no interest therein . but contrarywise as the promise of gifts ( as well as graces ) pertains to us as we are the called of god , we ought to ●tir one another up , to seek with all dilligence and full assurance for the spirit of promise , which being received , will abundantly supply our wants , help our infirmities , convince the contrary minded by its powerfull evidence and demonstration in the ministry of the word and prayer . there be two things objected against that which is said , the first . ob : if the promise of the spirit do thus belong to the church , then this will follow , that the doctrines delivered by such gifted men must pass for oracles of god being the effects ●f the spirit of truth whose propertie it 〈◊〉 to lead into all truth . and hence ●ome have conceived the decrees ●f their counsells to be infallible , and ●thers have given out of their private ●tters or books that they were as in●allibly the word of god as the scrip●ure &c. ans . . those gifts do not argue ●he infallibillity of him that hath them , ●or then all the gifted brethren at co●inth had been infallible which yet they ●ere not , witness their great want of wisdom how to use their gifts to edi●ication , as also the apostles refer●ing what they delivered to tryal , telling ●s of gifted person in general ( and as ●uch not excluding himself ) that they ●ee but darkly , prophesie but in part , know but in part , so that perfection ●erein is not to be pretended . . that the apostles did deliver infallible and undoubted verities for all to submit to , as the very word of god &c. proceeded not hence , viz. because they were gifted men . but as being the chosen witnesses of god , purposely ordained to that very end , for which cause they saw that just one , heard the words of his mouth , and by infallible proves were assured of the resurrection of our lord and of his will concerning his kingdom , john ▪ . ye have not chosen me , but i have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit , and that your fruit should remain , that whatsoever ye shall ask the father in my name he may give it you , see acts . . . and acts . . . the god of o●r fathers hath chosen thee that thou should kn●w his will , and see that just one , and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth . for thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard . these are the fathers of the churches , the foundation layers , the master-builders in such an elevated consideration , as that the authority of one is to be valued above the authority of ten thousand subsequent teachers , which is a greater number then ever yet convened in a generall councell , . cor. . . . these were such fathers as laid up such a stock of doctrine for their children , as whoso bringeth not along with them is not to be received . . john. . , . and whosoever corrupteth by adding takeing away or perverting is to be held accursed , to be nameless in the city of god and the book of life , the conclusion is this , gifted persons , on whom the holy ghost fell as it did on the apostles , were not thereby impowered , to propose new oracles , or to be the apostles competitors , and if any presume to these things ( as some did in the apostles dayes ) they shall fulfill that sentence , . tim. . . they shall proceed no further for their folly shall be made manifest to all men as theirs also was . ob. . if the gifts of the spirit , . cor. . have continued in the church as you teach , 't is strange we have no account of them since their days , unless we regard the papacy who have claim'd the gift of miracles in every age , which they urge as an undoubted proof that they only are the church of christ . ans . . it is true that people do pretend , as 't is said in the objection and it is now my business to examine the goodness of that pretence , only this i say they cannot find their church to have had a being in every age since christ , and therefore very unlikely to prove what they say in the case of miracles . but put case that since they have had a being in the world , some signs or wonders have been done among them , yet hence to infer the truth of their church state is very unsafe , sith before an equall judge others will be found to have as clear a claim to miracles as themselves . * mat. . . many w●ll say unto me in that day have we not prophesi●d in thy name , and in thy name have we cast out devils and in thy name have done many wondrous works . and then will i profess un●o them i never knew you , depart from me ye workers of iniquity , and though our saviour saith , no man can do a miracle in his name and lightly speak evil of him , yet that very speech supposes the thing possible . it doth not follow therefore that wheresoever miraculous gifts are there is the true church , but she is only known by her conformity to the doctrine of god our saviour , chiefly in the principles of religion , heb. . . . for we are his house if built upon that foundation of repentance , faith , &c ▪ and pa●takers of him , if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast to the end otherwise not . heb. . . . if any come unto you and bring not this doctrine receive him not to house , no , though he work miracles , for thus saith the lord. if there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams , and giveth thee asign or a wonder , and the sign or the wonder come to pass , whereof he spake unto thee [ now note if he do this ] saying let us go after other gods ( which thou hast not koown ) and let us serve them , thou shalt not hearken to the words of that prophet — for the lord your god proveth you to know whether you love the lord your god , with all your heart , and with all your soul. and hence learn this one thing that gods truth is not to give place to any gifts , but all gifts are to subserve to the furtherance of his truth . to conclude as we ought not to be ignorant of the gifts of the spirit , so neither of the means ordain'd of god to obtain those gifts . the primitive churches are herein our best guide as the word directs . t is well known ( and i think granted on all hand● ) that they used the solemn ordinance of prayer and imposition of hands for obtaining the promised spirit , at least with respect to these gifts . now be it so ( though i say for the graces or fruits also ) then seeing these gifts are promised to us as well as unto them , and are attainable , and in part ( at least ) attained by many , what should hinder the churches , but that now they should tread in this path , with faith and full assurance that a blessing is in it ? as in holy baptism we are placed ( as it were ) among those whose sins are washed away in the blood of the lamb. so in this holy ordinance of prayer and imposition of hands we are in a solemn manner ushered , into the promise of the holy spirit , and as the pardon of our sins signified in baptism doth not prevent , but better capaciate us to pray daily forgive us our ●●espasses , so imposition of hands doth put us into a better capacity to seek dayly for the gifts and graces of the spiri● , b●cause now solemnly intercessed in the promise , by that very way the primi●ive saints were intercessed therein , acts . , . acts . . . tim. . . heb. . . who when they were down prayed for them that they might receive the holy ghost , then laid they their hands on them and they receithe holy ghost . have they received of the holy ghost since the believed ? and when paul had laid his hand is on them , the holy ghost 〈◊〉 on them . wherefore i put th●e in rem●mb●ance that thou stir up the gift of god which is in thee by the putting o● of my hands . — the foundation of repentance , and of faith towards god of the d●ctrine of bap●ism and of laying on of hands , of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgement . what shall i 〈◊〉 , the scriptures are evidence sufficient that this ordinance is of divine institution , is from heaven ; the promise which it leads to ●s perpetual , and universal , it belong , to the whole body . there is one body and one spirit even as ye are called i● 〈◊〉 hope of your calling . a post-script . taken out of the works of dr. jer. taylor , in defence of laying on of hands , as a never-failing ministery . we have seen the original [ of laying on of hands ] from christ the practice and exercise of it in the apostles , and the first converts in christianity , that which i shall now remark is , that this is established and passed into a christian doctrine . the waranty for what i say is the words of st. paul where the holy rite of confirmation , so called from the effect of this ministration , and expressed by the ritual part of it , imposition of hands is reckoned a foundamental point 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not laying again the foundation of repentance from deas works , and of faith towards god , of the doctrine of baptism , and of laying on of hands , of resurrection from the dead and of eternal judgement ; here are six foundamental points of st. pauls catechism which he said as t●e foundation or beginning of the institution of the christian church , and amongst these imposition of hands is reckoned as a p●rt of the foundation and therefore they who deny it , dig up foundations . now that this imposition of hands is that which the apostles used in confirming the baptized and invocating the holy g●ost upon them rem●ins to be pro●●● . — absolution of penitents cannot be meant here , not only b●cause we never read that the apostles did use that ceremony in their absolutions , but because the apost●e speaking of the foundation in which baptism is . — there need●d no absolution but bap●ismal ; for they and we believi●g gone baptism for the rem●ssion of sins , this is al the absolution that can be at the first and in the foundation . the * other was secunda post 〈◊〉 frag●●m tabula . 〈◊〉 me in after when men had m●de shipwrack of their good conscienscience and were as st. peter saith — unmindful of the former cleansing . . it cannot be meant of ordination and this is also evident . . because the apostle saves he would thence forth leave to speak of the foundation and go on to perfection , that is to higher misteries . now in ri●uals of which he speaks , there is none higher then ordination . . the apostle saying he would speak no more of laying on of hands goes presentl● to discourse , of the misteriousness of the evangelical priest-hood , and the honor of that vocation , by which it is evident he spake nothing of ordination in the catechism , or narrative of foundamentals . . this also appears from t●e context , not only because laying on of hands is immediately set after baptism but also because in the very next words of this discourse , he does enumerate and apportion to baptism , and [ imp●sition of hands ] their proper and proportioned effects . to b●ptism il●umira●ion , — and to confirma●ion he reckons tasting the heavenly gift and being made par●akers of the holy ghost ▪ by the thing sig●ified declaring the sign , and by ●he miste●y the 〈◊〉 ▪ upon these words ●t chrisostom● discoursing sayes , that all these are foundamental articles : that it that ●e ought to repent from dead works ; to be baptized ●●to the faith of christ , and be made worthy of the gift of the spirit , who is given by imposition of hands and we are to be taught the misteries of the resurrection and eternal judgement . this catechism ( sayes he ) is perfect , so that if any man have faith in god , and being baptized is also confirmed and so tasts the heavenly gift , and partakes of the holy ghost , by hope of the resurrection tasts of the good things of the world to come , if he falls away from this state — digging down and turning up these foundations he shall never be built again , he can never be baptized again — confirmed again . god will not begin again , &c. he cannot be made a christian twice . — this is the full explication of this excellent place , and any other ways it cannot be reasonably exp●icated . — i shall observe one thing more out of this testimony of st. paul he cal●s it the doctrine of baptism and laying on of hands , by which it does not only appear to be a lasting ministry , because no part of the christian doctrine could change or be abolished but hence also it appears to be divine institution . for it were not st. paul had been guilty of that which our blessed savior reproves in the scribes and pharises , and should have taught for doctrines the commandements of men. which because it cannot be supposed , it must follow that this doctrine of confirmation , or imposition of hands is apostolicall and divine . the argument is clear , and not easily to be reproved . yea but what is this to us ? it belong'd to the days of wonder and extraordinary . the holy ghost breathed upon the apostle● and apostolicall men , but then he breath'd his last ; vecendente gratiae recessit disiplina ; when the grace departed we had no further need of the cerimony . in answer to this i shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by divers particulars evince plainly , that this ministry — was not temporary and relative only to the acts of the apostles , but was to descend to the church for ever . this indeed is done already in the proceeding sect in which it is clearly manifested , that christ himself made the baptism of the spirit necessary to the church ▪ he declar'd the fruits of this baptism , and did particularly relate it to the descent of the holy spirit upon the church at and after that glorious pe●tie●st . he sa●ctified it and commended it b● hi● example ; just as he sanctified the flood jordan , and all other waters to the misticall washing away of sin , viz. by his great example , and fulfi●ling this righteousness also . this doctrine the apostles first found in their own persons , and experience , and practised to all their converts , by a solemn , and externall rite ; and all this p●ssed into an evangelicall , doct●ine the whole mistery being signified by the externall rite in the words of the apostle , as before it was by christ expressing only the internall . so that there needs n● more strength to this argument . but that there may be wanting no moments to this t●uth which the holy scripture affords , i shall add more weight to it ; and , . the perpetuity of this rite appears , because this great gift of the holy ghost was promised to abide with the chu●ches for ever . and when the je●s hea●d the apostles speak with tongues at the first and miraculous d●s●ent of the spirit in pen●●c●st , to take of the stra●ge●ess of the wond●r , and the envy of the power . st. pe●er at that very time tells them plainly . re●●nt and be baptiz●d eve●y one of you — and 〈◊〉 shall rece●●e the gift of the holy ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not the meanest person among you all , but shall receive this great thing , which ye observe us to have received and not only you , but your children too , not of this ●eneration only , sed nati natorum et q●i n●centur ab illis , but your children for ever . for the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are affar off , even to as many as the lord your god shall call ▪ now then let it be considered . . this gift is by promise , by a promise not made to the apostles alone , but to all ; to all for ever . . consider here at the very first as there is a verbum , a word of promise , so there is a sacramentum too i use the word — — in a large sence only , and according to the stile of the primitive church ) it is a rite partly morall ; and partly cerimoniall , the first is prayer , the other is laying on of the hands : and to an effect that is but transient and extraordinary , and of a little abode , it is not easily to be supposed that such a solemnity should be appointed . i say such a solemnity ; that is , it not imaginable that a solemn rite , annexed to a perpetuall promise should be transient and temporary for by the nature of relatives they may be of equall abode , the cerimony or rite was anexed to the promise , and therefore also must be for ever . * : this is attested by st. paul who reduces this argument to this mistery saying , in home after that you believed — ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise . he spake it to the ephesians who well understood his meaning , by remembring what was done to themselves by the apostle , act. . . but a while before , who after he had baptised them did lay his hands upon them , and so they received the holy spirit of promise ; for here the very matter of fact is the clearest comentary on st. pauls words — — but fourthly . what hinders any man from a quick consent at the first representation of these plain reasonings and authorityes ? is it because there were extraordinary effects accompanying this ministration , and because now there are not , that we will suppose the whole oeconomy must cease ? if this be it , and indeed this is all that can be pretended in opposition to it , it is infinitely vain . . because these ex●raordinary effect , did continue even after the death of all the apostles . st. frenoeus saies they did continue even to his time , even the greatest instance of miraculous power . et infraternitate , sap●ssimc propter aliquid necessarium , &c. when god saw it necessary , and the church prayed and fasted much , they did miraculous things , even of reducing the spirit to a dead man. . in the days of the ap●stles the spirit did produce miraculous effects , but neither always , nor at all in all men , are all workers of miracles , &c. no , the spirit bloweth where it listeth , and as he listeth he gives gifts to all , but to some after this manner , and some after that . . these gifts were not necessary at , all times any more then to all persons , but the promise did belong to all and was made to all , and was performed to all . — and therefore if the grace be given to all , there is no reason that the ritual ministration of that grace should cease upon pretence that the spirit is not given extraordinarily . other arguments he hath ( many ) to the same purpose , and a● i conceive well worthy the consideration of all christians * specially those that are doubtfull in this principle of religion but i shall sh●t up all with a few of his citations out of the works of antient writers , in behalf of this point of faith . and first noteing how that originally it came from the apostles . in the second century he brings thophilus , antiochenus and ●ertullian , the latter saith thus , d● hinc manus imponitur , &c. after baptism the hand is imposed by blessing , calling , and inviting the holy spirit . — being cleansed by baptismal water , we are dispos'd for the holy spirit under the hand of the angel of the church , and to this effect the rest , &c. for the third century he brings origen , cyprian , dionis , and eusebius , the first testimony set down is out of cyprian who writing upon the passage in acts . . saith , which custome is also descended to us , that they who are baptized might be brought by the rulers of the church and by prayer and imposition of hands receive the lords signature , &c. for the fourth hundred he brings melchiades , optatus , civil , and others speaking very highly of the use of this ministration and then brings urba● the first , as more plainly setting down what the rest delivered more siguratively , in these words omnes fideles , &c. all faithful people ought to receive the holy spirit by imposition of the bishops hands after baptism . and having added yet more witnesses of this kind , he alleadges six counsells , to evince the same thing , viz. that this ordinance of prayer , laying on of hands were received together with the other principles by christians generally . the decree of one of these counsels ( concerning such as had received baptism in a regular form ) is in these words manus ●antum eiis imponatur ut accipiant spiritum sanctum . let there be imposition of hands that they may receive the holy ghost . afterwards the dr. concludes thus . so many fathers testifying the practice of the church and teaching this doctrine , and so many more fathers as it were assembled in six councells , all giving witness to this holy rite and that in pursuance of scripture are too great a blood of witnesses to be despised by any man that calls himself a christian . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gal. . . heb. . . act. . . mark . . acts . , acts , . libert . proph● . p , . to pag. . * which yet the baptists do not grant . * it is a saying of augustin , de trahe verbum quid est aqua &c. take away the word and what is water , nothing but water joyn the word to the element and it is made a sacrament . this consideration is very concluding against paedo baptism , for to the infant , the word is as it were taken away from the element , a●d cons●quent y accordirg to aug. it can be no sacrament to them at all . ex manu controv● under the probation of divers of their doctors , professors and students in theology . p. . to . s. n. antid . se diod te . in act . * a thing wholy unknown that they have any such receit of the spirit . eras. parrap . ●n cor. . eraz. par . on math. . ludovicus vives . fabian . hugo grotius anno . con ne●caes . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tertul. lib. de bap. cap. . tertull. lib. de baptis . cap. . * 〈◊〉 . to quest . in ● . baptisma . mark . perseverence in faith must here be understood , with the fruits of faith a●so . * for they do ●●t only deny such infants the act , but the ●ight to baptism because the children of ●nbelievers . verse . . litturgy . marq. of worcest . certam . relig. * secundum ▪ fisher . * for gods ways are not to be left to mans will be commands and t is mans duty to obey . ex opp . perk. s●e the scholast . discourse against symbol with antichrist . notes for div a -e the poynt to be proved . from the apostles scope . * cor. . . cor. . . . from the extent of the promise . . from the nature of the duties of the church . . from the nature and perpetuity of the exhortations to seek for the spirit . . from the continuation of spiritual gifts in the church to this day . it is probable that paul made use of his education in speaking divers languages , as may be perceived by his discou●ses in the acts of the apostles , and by the epistles which he wrote to severall churches , useing therein ( as 't is confessed ) frequently the greek tongue . . from the silence of the scriptures , as to the privation of the gifts of the spirit &c , . cor. . . * which yet shall avail them nothing , because they wanted truth with their gifts . notes for div a -e * me●ning that laying on of hands used by some at the absolving penetents . * [ i think this wi●l abide tryall , sith we may not expect a change of the dispensation we are under ; otherwise the promise might continue under some other rite or elce without it ] * who know how to read men without being scandi ized if they meet with phraises , and some nothing which are doubtful as its the case of most that write . ● con. arles . c. . a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : . because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, . because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : . because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, . because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london printed : . special t.p.: brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants / by thomas grantham. london : [s.n.], . 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pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a religious contest . or , a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln . between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part , and thomas grantham , servant to the baptised churches on the other part . whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism : in his book intituled , a rational account of the protestant religion , &c. in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity , are as yet unbaptised into christ . . because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising . . because infants ought not to be baptised . acts . . repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gifts of the holy ghost . mark . . he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved . london , printed in the year , . the epistle dedicatory , to mr. vvilliam fort and the rest of the brethren and assistants at the dispute holden by his appointment at blyton the day of september , . reverend sirs i do seriously account it a part of my infelicity to see the distractions and divisions among us touching the worship of almighty god , and his holy child jesus , whom i trust we do all love and fear , and therefore it is the greater pitty that we who differ not about the godhead , should at all differ about the things which pertain to his blessed service . may it therefore please god to move upon all our hearts to consider ( laying aside all carnal interest ) where the causes on either side are given . and sith , perhaps we are more quick sighted about each others mistakes then our own , give me leave without offence , to shew briefly what i conceive is really amiss on your part , and i shall as willingly consider what may fairly be objected concerning us against that confideration . first then , when i look upon your reformation from papall errors , i cannot but heartily congratulate the piety and zeal of your martyrs , &c. specially in their being instrumental to bring that sacred institute of the lords table from under manifold corruptions wherewith it had been incumbred in the darkness of popery : but yet withall i must needs condole their shortness in not looking with like diligence to the pristine institution of sacred baptism , by which oversight we which survive them , are the more exposed to our present distractions , and i think i may say in this , as david in another case , because they did it not at the first therefore the lord made a breach upon us . secondly , when i consider the articles of the church of england , i think it very strange that we who agree so firmly in them all save three or four , and differ but in some points touching them neither , should not consider of some expedient to remove what obstructs our intire agreement . may it therefore please your bishops , with their brethren , to admit of a friendly conference with our bishops and pastors , to try if by any means away may be found to bring us to brotherly concord , for whatsoever hath happened in the heat of disputation , or fallen from the pens of passionate writers on eitherside , yet be pleased to know , we are no haters of the pious protestant , but sincere lovers of them and the truths by them maintain'd , as indeed we ought to be of all who love christ , though differing from us in many things . and though it is true we hold a separation from you in our congregations , yet we do this of necessity , because none among your leaders will treat with us about the removal of those things which do offend . i confess , to reform what is amiss on your part touching sacred baptism is a difficult undertaking , yet not more difficult then it was to reform what was amiss in the other sacrament , whether we consider their errors , who for some hundreds of years , gave it to infants , or theirs who by their transubstantiation changed the very nature of the sacrament ▪ but if no endeavouts of this kind must be admitted , then am i out of hopes ever to see christian concord among us , for those coercive ways ( which some incline to ) will but aggravate the breach ( which is too great already ) & render your cause the more suspitious , and consequently more confirm us in our perswasion against your way . now the lord himself direct us all to the way of truth and peace in all things ; so prays ; yours to love and serve you in christ as far as permitted . t. g. the epistle to the reader , shewing the occasion of this disputation . courteous reader . disputation is not more hurtful when needless , then profitable when necessity calls for it . and hereupon our lord christ himself was frequent in disputes about his doctrine . this way went the apostles to try the matter in question about circumcision , acts . and paul defended christianity by disputing dayly in the school of one tyrannus acts . the occasion of the dispute at blyton ▪ september . . was on this wise . a small remnant of baptized christians meeting in that town , it pleased mr. fort minister of the perochial congregation there , to come to their meetings , and to hinder their proceedings , so that they could not edifie one another , as their manner was . and this he did many times , and told them he was resolved they should not meet in that town . and when the baptists endeavoured to maintain their principles , he slighted them , saying they were foolish men not fit to discourse of religion because they understood not the rules of logick , &c. but he bad them find him a man that had brains , and understood the languages , and knew logick and he would dispute with him . they told him they had few that understood these things . but he not ceasing to disturb them they consented to his motion , and a day was appointed , and because the baptists had not a convenient place , mr. fort provided a large room , and sent for them to come thither , where himself with two other ministers and divers of the neighbourhood were met togeth●r . for the account of the dispute it self , take this information that much of it is here reported according to what memory could serve in upon recogitation , but yet be assured of this that for substance it is not altered by this account , the arguments varying very little , or not at all from the very terms wherein they were expressed in the dispute , and mr. fort 's answers , rendred rather more advantagious , then in their first delivery . if it seem strange that a person of such learning and gravity , should answer and argue with no more advantage to his cause , the reader may take notice that god hath said , he will confound the wisdom of the wise , and bring to nought the understanding of the prudent and when he doth this , then where is the scribe , where is the disputer of this world. now whereas in this dispute i have used th● method which the learned do more affect , then other ways of disputing , i desire the reader to take notice , that i do not in any thing that i have said pretend at all to the parts of a scholar , being a person of no education that way , howbeit , having obtained mercy of the lord , to know somewhat of his blessed will , according to his word , i am therefore willing to appear in the defence of his truth when called thereunto . finally , my hearts desire and prayer to god , is , that though our present differences in religion , be matter of infelicity , yet sith we all agree , that christianity is the only true religion in the world , that we therefore may ●ndeavour to maintain the great engag●ment of charity , and m●deration , and then we may expect that the god of truth and peace , will pitty us under our mistakes , and also lead us into the enjoyment of that gracious promise , jer. . . even to give us one heart , and one way . so be it . tho. grantham . a religious contest , or , an account of the dispute held at blyton the eighteen of september , . the people being come together , mr. fort applying himself to thomas grantham began after this manner . sir , i suppose that you are come hither to defend some unlawful meetings in this place which i have laboured to suppress , now that which i have to charge them with is this : that their meetings are unlawful . . that their way of anabaptism is sinful , and . i will prove that our way of baptizing infants is lawful . tho. grantham . sir , i came not hither to defend any mans sayings or doings , but to vindicate the truth of the gospel ( as much as in me is ) so far as i am concerned , and for anabaptism i am against it as much as you , nor do i think it needful to dispute about the baptizing of infants till some body be found to baptise them , for i think that there is no man in england that baptiseth any infants . mr. fort. why this is a strange thing ! can any thing be more plain , then that which is de facto , and here the three priests fell a laughing . t. grantham . gentlemen , you have no cause to laugh as yet , for i say ( and shall shew in due place ) that neither you nor any in the world that i can hear of does baptise any infants . mr. fort. i tell you friend we do baptise them and will you deny a thing that is de facto , and here they fell a laughing again . t. grantham . gentlemen , this doth not become the gravity of your persons , did you come hither to make sport ? but because you make this so strange , give me leave to put you in mind of the apostles saying , cor. . this is not to eat the lords supper , and yet the corinthians did celebrate the lords supper as they supposed in the bread and wine which they set apart , but going from the institution of christ , the apostle denies it to be the lords supper . i therefore say you do not baptise at all , because you have lost the institution of christ . mr. fort. well , well , but first let me hear what you have to say for these unlawful meetings which i have endeavoured to suppress . t. grantham . i am not so much a stranger to the meetings you speak of , but i think they may be defended , but yet i suppose it the best way to try our principles , for if they be good , our meetings to promote good principles need not offend you , and truly till this day , i did not understand that our meetings should be the subject of our dispute . mr. fort. i perceive those that have informed you have done you some injury , for i did say , that your meetings were unlawful and therefore i opposed them , and seeing you have not premidated this , i will not surprize you , but will consent to dispute their principles . t. grantham . sir i thank you for that , and i desire that the questions may be fairly stated to contain the points in difference about the doctrine of baptism . mr. fort. well , i agree to that , and pray do you state the questions if you please . t. grantham . the questions then may be these , ( viz. ) qu. . whether your way of baptising , be the right way of baptising ? qu. . whether infants ought to be baptised ? mr. fort. well , let these be the questions , i say our way of baptisi●g i● right , and that infants ought to be baptised , and do you prove the contrary if you can . t. grantham . although you ought to prove what you affirm , yet i will accept your offer , and shall shew , that your pretended way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , and that infants ought not to be baptised , and first i argue thus . arg. . holy scripture doth shew what is the right way of baptising , holy scripture doth not shew sprinkling or crossing is the right way of baptising , ergo your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , mr. fort we do not say that sprinkling or crossing is baptising , neither did i ever sprinkle any in all my life , t. g. then you contradict your brethren , whose constant practice is known to be sprinkling and crossing the fore-head , yea you contradict your own common prayer-book , for there your direction is to sprinkle and cross the infant . mr. fort. i confess our old common prayer-book did use the word sprinkle , but we have now altered it , and it is only baptise in the new common prayer-book . t. grantham , i confess reformation is no error , it seems then by your own grant your first book was faulty , and for your practise it is still the same , and i pray , as you are a schollar tell us plainly , doth the word baptise signifie to sprinkle ? m. fort. no , i do not say it doth the word that signifies sprinkling is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. in that you say well , and now pray answer to my argument , for it proves sprinkling is not the way of baptising . mr. fort. i have told you we do not say that sprinkling is baptising , neither do we make the cross any part of baptism . tho. grantham . you do certainly make the cross an appurtenance in your baptism , for you will excommunicate such as refuse to use it in baptism , and for sprinkling i appeal to this assembly , who can witness it 's the common practice of your ministry to sprinkle the fore-head , and it is remarkable that you cannot stand by your practice now it is opposed . i desire you to answer the argument . mr. fort. i have answered it for i do not sprinkle , but i always pour water upon those whom i baptise , and for my own part i was dipped , and so according to your own judgement rightly baptised . t. grantham . if you were dipped then you had more done to you then your brethren in that case , and so you are divided in your practice nor is your pouring water on the fore-head baptising and therefore answer the argument . mr. fort. here mr. fort and the other ministers spake together disowning sprinkling , and saying they did not make the cross necessary in baptism , for ( say they ) in private baptism it is not used . t. grantham . you know that the papists allow of midwife to pour water out of a glass upon the infant , which they account a valid baptism yet at other times they make their ceremonies necessary , and so do you the cross , performing in the name of the father , son and holy spirit . mr. fort. that is not so , we do not perform it in the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , therefore you wrong us . t. grantham . this is strange , for either you do it in the name of the lord , or in your own name , if you do it in your own name pray tell us so , but you answer not the argument , therefore i proceed . arg. . that which renders the practise of christ and his apostles supers●●ous , ●r ridiculous , is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way of baptising renders the practice of christ and his disciples superfluous , or ridiculous , ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. the minor is denyed our way of baptising doth not render the practice of christ or his disciples superfluous or ridiculous . t. grantham . the minor i evince by this demonstration , he that considers how christ and his disciples were baptised , and did baptise in rivers or places of much water and you on the other side take a little water on your finger ends , or in your hand only , must needs conclude that either they did too much , or you do too little ; now thus it is written , mat. jesus when he was baptized came up streight way out of the water , mark . they were all baptized in the river of jordan , confessing their sins . john baptised in enon because there was much water there . phillip and the eunuch went both down into the water . now if your putting a few drops of water on the fore-head only , be sufficient then the other must needs be superfluous , yea ridiculous . mr. fort. this does not prove the minor , for we do not deny dipping , and i pray what do you mean when you say our way renders christs to be ridiculous . t. grantham . i mean a thing to be laughed at , and put the case you had occasion to wash your hands only , would it not be ridiculous to see you go into the river to do it ? even does thus your pretended way of baptising , render the way of christ ridiculous and reflects dishonour on him and his followers , as if they were not so wise as you , to know the best way to be baptized , but we are resolved to follow christ though we differ from you . mr. fort. yes , the word ridiculous doth signifie so much , but yet i deny that our practise doth reflect upon christs , for though in these hot countreys they did dip in rivers , yet it was not necessary in these colder countreys to do so , for christ hath not commanded that . t. grantham . then you confess it was the practice of the first christians to dip in rivers , and i ask you whether they did this by a command or not ? mr. fort. yes , i grant they did it by a command . t. grantham . then you have granted sufficient to overthrow your practice , and to confirm ours , unless you can also shew a command for sprinkling . mr. fort. i have told you i do not sprinkle . t. grantham . the contrary is the known practice of your ministry , and yours is little differing , i proceed to another argument . arg. . that which brings unavoidable confusion into the church is not the right way of baptising : but your way of baptising doth bring unavoidable confusion into the church . ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising mr. fort. our practice in baptising as we do , doth not bring confusion into the church . t. grantham . i shew the contrary thus , your way of baptising admits of as many several ways , as there are parts in a mans body ; for whether the fore-head , the breast , back , hand or foot , or some other part ought to be only sprinkled , or whether any of these may not serve , you can shew no reason , so that you thus bring confusion into the church : mr fort. the head being the most honourable part of mans body , we therefore chuse the head and think that the best . t. grantham this is only your imagination , and if i think otherwise , and so chuse the breast , you cannot shew this to be a greater errour then your own , but i proceed . arg. . that which renders all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , is not the right way of baptising , but your way of baptising doth render all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort i deny that our way renders men uncertain , whether they do the will of god or not . t. g. god hath not assigned any one part of the body to be baptised , and not another , therefore no man that follows your way can tell whether he do the will of god or not , in following your way : arg. . that way which doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism . ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr fort. our way of baptising doth signifie the cleansing of the conscience from sin which is the thing that ought to be signified in baptism : t. g. no action of mans devising may be said to signifie the cleansing our conscience● from sin , but my argument refers to the whole signification of baptism , and particularly the burial of christ and others with him , rom. we are buried with him in baptism , and the scripture cannot be broken , therefore baptism must so be performed as to signifie these things : arg. . that which agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not the right way of baptising . but your way agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort the minor is denied , our practice agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : t. g. i desire you to shew the place which mentions such a washing as you practice , where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken to express the sacred act of baptism : mr. fort. it is said the pharises did wash their cups and beds ; here the word baptizo is used , yet they did not dip them . t. grantham . i call'd for a text wher the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to express the sacred act of baptism , and that signifies your manner of washing , and instead of this , you bring me a place which speaks of the pha. rises washing cups and beds , and yet even this place is against you , for they that wash defiled cups and beds do more then sprinkle them , or poure a little water upon them , as you do on the infants fore-head ; and here give me leave to urge some authorities for the sigsiification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a dipping of the thing denominated baptized , and first i urge the greek grammer , where the radix is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and rendred , mergo , immergo , to dip or plunge . mr. fort. i will not regard the greek grammar . t. grantham . this is strange ! will you take upon you to correct the greek grammar . mr. fort. yes that i will , i will not believe the greek grammar . t. grantham . i suppose you would correct our bibles too if you could , but till this be done give us leave to believe the grammar which we have for i do not expect a better from you ; my next authority is that of channer , who saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 estingo quod fit immergendo portinctionem , & inundationem . mr. fort. i have not seen that author . t. grantham . then i give you another : an brose saith , ergofratres tingi debens 〈◊〉 fonte quo christus . therefore brethren we must be dipped in the same fountain with christ , that we may be one with christ , and to this agree the decrees of some councells . mr. fort. pray assign those counsells that decreed such a thing if you can . t. grantham . the forth toleton counsell ( which is ratified in the decretalls ) saith proter vitandum schismatis scandulum , & ● . wherefore to avoid the scandal of schism ▪ let us in baptism dip but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and saith the counsell of worms ▪ in aquas demersio in infernum est , & rursus ab aquis emersio resurrectio est . mr. fort. well i have told you i was dipped yet i had but my head only dipped , and for my part i do not use sprinkling at all . t. grantham . sir , i have shewed how therein you contradict your brethren and the church of england , and it 's observable that you cannot stand by your way of baptising , and hereby you give this assembly just cause to suspect their baptism , but i proceed . arg. . that practice which was innovated long after the institution of baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. i deny that our way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . t. grantham . i can prove it was innovated long after the institution of baptism by your own doctors . for example , hugo grotius who confesses so much in his judgement on sundry points controverted , also the learned marquess of worcester in his conference with his late majesty confesses that their church ( to wit the papists ) changed baptism from dipping over head and ears to a little sprinkling upon the forehead , and wallridus strabo de rebus ecclesiae , that the first christians were baptized simply in floods and fountains , yea i can prove by our own chronicles that there were about ten thousand baptised in one day in the river swale in york-shire , from all which it appears your way of sprinkling is an innovation . mr. w mr. wright one of the ministers that sat by was very angry and stood up , saying ; you speak all , it is not fit you should speak so much . t. grantham to whom t. g. replyed sir you ought not to be angry ; i do not interrupt mr. fort , and he hath time to speak what he hath to say : therefore blame not me sith i hear as well as speak . mr. fort. pray mr wright be not angry ; i promised it should be a peaceable dispute . t. grantham . because i would give place that mr. fort ●ight have time to prove his practice , i would now proceed to the second question , ( viz ) qu. . whether infants ought to be baptized , i am to prove they ought not , which i thus do , arg. . holy scripture doth shew who are to be baptized , holy scripture d●th not shew that infants ought to be baptised . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised . thomas grantham . if holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised , then some body can shew where it may be found , but no body can shew us where such a scripture may be found . ergo holy scripture doth not shew that infants ought to be baptised . mr. fort. i can shew where it may be found , and i will prove that infants ought to be baptised , from mat. . t. grantham sir , you mistake your place , for you are not now to prove , but to answer me , nor doth the text you mention speak of infant baptism at all . mr. fort. the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples in all nations baptising them , but infants are part of the nations that are to be baptised . t. grantham . you do violate the law of disputing , for being my respondent you ought not to argue . now for the text it is read thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. now for the explication of the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i refer you to john the . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here disciples are made such by actual teaching : ergo , infants cannot be made disciples according to mat. . . mr. fort. i deny , that it is necessary to understand an actual teaching by the w●rd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. the very reading of the text gives it against you , for it saith go teach all nations , ●twas an act to be done by the apostles . mr. fort. i tell you infants of believers are disciples and need no act to make them so . t. g. that cannot be , they must be made disciples either by god or man before they can be disciples , however they cannot be disciples according to mat. . because that is interpreted by your self to make disciples , ( viz ) by the apostles . mr. fort. but there is no necessity to understand an actual teaching of all that are to be made disciples . t. grantham . it can have no other signification , as i shall shew by your own criticks , who tell us that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est disco , to learn or get knowledge and in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didict and is rendred dicens ab alio , which agrees with the syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the arab. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this fully accords with mark . . go preach the gospel to every creature and hence i argue . if those that are to be baptised according to mat. . . must first be made by actual teaching or learning from another , then no infant ought to be baptised according to this text but the first is true : ergo , so is the latter . mr. fort. i will prove that infants ought to be baptised as being disciples from acts . why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples ? this is spoken of infants , and therefore they are disciples . t. g. sir , i marvel you should no better observe the law of disputing which i must hold you to , and the rather because you were pleas●d to glory so much over your poor neighbours because of your skill in logick , and now i will shew your mistake of this text by the prosecution of my next argument which is this . arg none ought to be baptised but such as are christs disciples , according to the gospel use of that expression . infants are not christs disciples according to the gospel use of that ●●pression . ergo infants ought not to be baptized . mr. fort. i deny the minor , infants are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . t. grantham . none are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression , but such as take up their cross daily and follow christ , but infants do not so . ergo , to this agree the words of christ , luk. . mr. fort. this place speaks of persons of years , and not of infants . t. grantham . i grant it , and so doth every text that speaks of christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . mr. fort. not so , for i will shew a place where infants are called disciples , acts . here such as were to be circumcised after the manner of moses are called disciples and you know infants were circumcised after the maaner of moses . t. grantham . that infants were circumcised after the manner of moses is true , and that the false apostles would have put the yoke upon all the disciples is true , but that every one upon whom they would have put that yoke were disciples is not true ; i will expound this text by another , acts . . here we are informed that the multitude of them that believed had all things common ▪ yet it doth not follow that all that had part in these common things were believers , for infants had part in common things , and yet were no believers , for it 's said the multitude of them that believed were of one heart , and one soul. mr. fort. that text doth not expound the other . t. grantham . let them be diligently compared , and you will find that a man may as well prove infants believers from the one , as you can prove them disciples from the other , but i proceed . arg. . none ought to be baptized but those whose duty it is to be born again of water and of the spirit . it is not the duty of infants to be born again of water and the spirit . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i except against the term duty in your argument . t. grantham . why so ? mr. fort. there are four terms in your argument ; t. grantham . this is but an evasion , and no answer , you cannot shew four terms in it . mr. fort. i say infants ought to be born again of water and of the spirit . t. grantham . here you grant that they ought to be born again of water , and of the spirit , and yet deny it to be their duty , this is no good distinction to make the new birth no part of mans duty , but i will prove that whosoever is born again must therein perform duty , i joh. . whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory even our faith : certainly to believe and overcome the world is something of duty . mr. fort , this place speaks not of infants , but of persons which are adult , t. grantham i grant it , but withall i say this text speaketh of whatsoever is born of god , and saith christ , every one that is born of the spirit is like the wind that bloweth so as the sound thereof is heard now can you imagine your infants are born again of the spirit , seeing they give not any demonstration of it ? mr. fort. you still insist upon places which speak of adult persons . t. grantham . i have told you that all the scriptures which speak of the new birth of water and of the spirit , speaks of adult persons , or if any speak of infants pray shew us where they are . arg ▪ . no sinners ought to be baptized , but those of whom faith and repentance is first required , faith and rep●ntance are not required of infants . e●go , infants are not such sinners as ought to be baptized . mr. fort. this argument is like the rest , you still insist upon those things wh●●h are the duty of adult persons . t. grantham your conscience tells you that i insist upon those things which are the duty of all that are to be baptised ; yea your vulgar catechism teacheth us that faith and repentance are required of all that are to be baptised , but seeing you answer not , but evade only , i shall proceed . arg. . all that ought to be buried with christ in baptism , ought first to be dead with him from the rudiments of the world . infants ought not to be dead with christ from the rudiments of the world . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i deny the consequence . t. grantham . no sir , you cannot deny the consequence in a categoricall syllogism , so that you must either distinguish , or deny one of the propositions . mr. fort. well then , i deny your major . t. g. i need but only shew the absurdity of this your denyal , for you say in effect that so●e are to be buried before they be dead , now that all christians in rome and coloss were dead with christ , before they were buried with him in baptism , is evident , rom. , , , , , colos . . , , . and is as true of all other churches , by which it is plain that no infants were then , nor ought now to be baptised . arg. . such only ought to be baptised as christ and his apostles did baptise , or appointed to be baptised , but neither christ nor his apostles baptised any infants , n●r appointed them to be baptised , ergo. m. fort. christ did appoint infants to be baptised , and said suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not , mat. . t. grantham , all that can fairly be inferred of this passage is this , that if any desire the prayers of the ministers of christ for their children &c. they may lawfully pray for such blessings as they have need of ; but if any presume to baptise them , they do more to them then christ did , or any other by his appointment . mr. fort. the jaylor and all his were baptised , and how can you think there were no infants in his house . t. grantham . the very reading of this text doth shew , that there were no infants baptised , for first the word was preached to him and to all that were in his house , secondly he rejoyced believing in god with all his house : i desire no better evidence against your infant baptism then the place you bring for it . arg. . all that are to be baptised ought therein to worship god in spirit and truth , as also in other general duties of the n●w testament . but infants ought not to worship god in spirit and in truth in baptism , nor any other general duty of the new testainent . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. what do you mean by the general duties of the new testa ent ? t , g. i mean prayer , hearing the word , and communion at the lords table according to acts. . . . mr. fort this is spoken of grown persons , and not of infants . t. grantham . this is spoken of all that were baptised in the first church , whose pattern we ought to sollow rather then the innovations of men. mr. fort. your way is an innovation not much above two hundred years old . tho. grantham . not so , for our way of baptising began in the days of john the baptist , and for our opposing infant baptism 't is very antient , for as soon as we hear it mentioned we find it opposed by tertullian who lived in the third century : mr. fort. tertullian is conceived to oppose only the baptising of the children of unbelievers : t. g. that is a great mistake , his words are indefinite , for he saith , veniant ergo dum adolescunt , veniant dum discunt , dum quo veniant decentur , fiant christiam cum christum nosse potuerint . mr. w mr. wright who was one of the other priests , stood up and said , let the business be put to that issue , for you only have tertullian for the antients , and he was a mantanists . t. grantham . if he must be lightly looked at because he was in some errour , as that of montanus , then you must lay aside most of the antient fathers who also had their errours , but you are mistaken tertullian was not the only person among the antients that opposed infant baptism , for greg. nazianzene did likewise disswade from it . mr. wright . we have irenaeus before tertullian who speaks for infant baptism for he saith infantes pueris senis . t. grantham , you act his words amiss , for it is not senis but seniores . mr. wright . it is senis , it is senis . t. grantham , you mistake it is s●niores , and beside irenaeus speaks not of baptism , only he useth the words , renascunter in d●um . mr. fort the antients understood by them words to be baptized . t. g. it is inconvenient so to interpret ir●●eus in this place ; for then it would follow that unless infants be baptised they cannot be saved , which is absurd , but i desire you to answer to the argument mr. fort seemed not disposed to give any surther answer : then t. grantham said i have propounded and prosecuted arguments against your pretended way of baptising ▪ and against your infant subject , of what weight they are , and how you have answered them , we are no proper judges ▪ but must leave that to the auditors ; now because i would not take up the whole time , i desire you to be opponent , and i will answer you : i conclude with the words of aug●stine , nec ego te , nec tu me , sed ambo audiamus christi in scrip●●res . mr. fort opponent . i am now to prove our way of baptising to be the right way of baptising , and that infants ought to be baptised . arg. . if our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism then it is the right way of baptising . but our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism . ergo , it is the right way of baprising . t. grantham . if you mean that your way of baptising doth signifie all that ought to be signified in baptism , then i deny the minor , and we have before shewed how short it comes of the true and full signification of baptism . mr. fort. our way of baptising signifies the washing away of sins , and it agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is to wash , therefore it is sufficient . t. grantham . the contrary to this hath been shewed and i now deny that every kind of washing agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when used to express the sacred act of baptising , and i desire you to shew one text where that word is taken for a washing the fore-head only when the sacred act of baptising is expressed by it ▪ mr fort. the jaylor was baptised at midnight ; and do you think he had a river in his house ? t. grantham you are much mistaken the jaylor went out to be baptised : mr. fort. you cannot make that appear . t. grantham . yes the reading of the text is plain to that purpose , for it is said he was baptised , he , and all his straightway , and then it follows , and when he had brought them into his house , he set meat before them . mr. fort. that may be meant of carrying them out of one room into another t. grantham . this is contrary to common sence ; you cannot speak your conscience in this . mr. fort. i have shewed our way of baptizing is sufficient , i will now prove that infants ought to be baptised . arg , ▪ if infants are within the covenant of grace then they ought to be sealed with the seal of the covenant , and by consequence to be baptised . but infants are within the covenant of grace and ough to be sealed , &c , ergo , they ought to be baptized . t. grantham . before i answer your argument give me leave to ask you a question ▪ how many seals belong to the covenant of grace , and what be they ? mr. fort. there are two seals of the covenant , to wit , baptism , and the lords supper : t , g. then i deny your minor proposition from your own practice , for you deny infants one of these seals , to wit , the lords supper , though you confess them to be within the covenant , and we by as good reason deny the other seal to belong to infants : mr. fort. yes , we have better reason for the one then you have for the other , for it is said ; let a man examine himself , and so let him eat . t. grantham . . it is also said , repent and be baptised every one of you , acts . ● . if thou believest with all thine heart thou maist . . i might answer your instance out of your own mouth , by saying this is meant of persons of years , and not of infants , which as it is true so it shews the weakness of your answers to many of my arguments . mr. fort. i say infants being in the covenant they ought to be sealed with the seal ▪ and i pray tell me plainly whether you hold them in the coven●n● or no ? t. g. i say being in the covenant you mean the grace of eternal life by the death of christ , then i say all infants are so in the covenant of say but if by covenant you mean the duties of the covenant , then i 〈◊〉 infants are not so under the covenant . mr fort. you cannot prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved . t. g. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if it were my business , i could and would prove it , but i am 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you ▪ mr. fort. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to prove it if you can . t. grantham . then i prove it by the testimony of the apostle , who saith as in adam all dye , so in christ shall all be made alive , and again as by the offence of once the judgement came on all men to condemnation , so by the obedience of one the free gift abounded towards all men to justification of life . mr. fort. these places do not prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved ; for he speaks here only of the resurrection of the dead . t. g. these places do shew that what death and condemnation came on infants by adam is made void by the death of christ , and i desire you to answer me this question , whether you believe that any infants dying in infancy shall be damned ; mr. fort. yes i do be●ieve some infants dying in infancy shall be damned , ( here the people gave a general sigh as disliking so harsh a saying . ) t. g. then you are no friend to infants ; shall the lord tell us , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and shall we no● believe him . mr. fort. the lord doth say he will visit the iniquities of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation . t. g. yea sir , but it is of them that hate him , but yet i grant in respect of temporal punishments the children do often bear the iniquities of their fathers , yea , all infants do bear the sin of their father adam to this day , but our discourse is of eternal condemnation , in which respect i say infants shall not bear the iniquity of their father , seeing christ saith of infants indefinitely , of such are the kingdom of god. mr. fort well i have shewed that infants being in the covenant ought therefore to be baptized , and it is said cor. . that infants are holy and so they are in covenant with their believing parents . t. g : i have answered your argument by distinguishing betwixt the duty of the covenant , and the mercy of eternal life , in the first i say infants are not in the covenant , but in the other i say they are for they shall be saved by christ . and for the holiness the cor. . it is expounded by erasmus , and others of your own doctors to be only a legi●timate holiness , and indeed being derived from the unbelievers being sanctified , it cannot fairly be understood of any other kind of cleanness then that which is matrimonial . mr. wright mr. w. interposed saying diodate doth expound that place of a covenant holiness . t. g. i grant he doth so , yet augustine far more antient then he saith , that whatsoever that ho●iness is it is certain it is not of power to make christians or remit sins . mr. e. i marvel you ●…ould deny infants the seal seeing you grant them to be in the covenant . t. g. i do not deny them the seal any more then your self , who deny them the lords supper , which was allowed them in old time for years together . mr. f. what author saies so ? i do not think you can shew that in any good author . t. g. i can shew it from your own doctors in a learned treatise called a scholastical discourse about symbolising vvith anti-christ in ceremonies . mr. fort. infants being in the covenant are in the church , and therefore cannot be denyed baptism , t. grantham . i answer by the former distinction if by being in the covenant and in the church you mean the whole number of the saved : i grant infants to be in the covenant and in the church ; but if you mean those onlie who are in the actual profession of gospel ordinances , as baptism and the like , i say no scripture shews them to be so in the covenant . mr. fort repeating what he said before , rose up to go away , then tho. grantham said . gentlemen , though we differ in opinion , yet i desire we may endeavour to maintain the great duty of charitie towards each other , till god shall rectifie our judgements in these things . mr. w , mr. wright replied , saying it was not meet to place all our religion in these ●hings , but to walk in love one towards another , or to this effect , and thus in a f●iendlie manner the meeting was dissolved & everie man went away in peace . the next day the baptised christians met together to preach the word : mr. fort and mr. wright came to the meeting and i● a very civil manner assaied to discourse with them about the authoritie by which they preach , supposing that they had no ordinarie calling to the ministry , but when it was shewed them that no man was allowed to minister in the baptised churches in the capacity of a pastor or other officer , without due election and ordination by fasting and prayer , with the laying on of hands by the presbiterie , bishops , or overseers of the church ; they then onlie opposed that libertie of prophecie , which we allow , saying that gifted men in the church , as meer gifted christians might not praie , or expound the word in publick assemblies , we on the contrarie alledgd that gifted christians as such might lawfullie speak in the church to exhortation , &c. in a modest and humble manner for the improvement of gi●ts and the profit of the church . quoting to this purpose pe. , , ▪ cor. . . acts . . we spent about half an hour in friendlie discourse about the meaning of those scriptures , but not agreeing in our expositions , mr. fort took his leave , and we proceeded in our work . finis . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants , in his book intituled a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion . &c. wherein the insufficiency of his grounds for infant baptism is discovered . by thomas grantham . job . . . who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one . isa . . . surely your turning things upside down shall be esteemed as the petters clay . london , printed in the year , . to the reader . it is not any conceit of my fitness to contend with learned men in the controversies depending about sacred baptism , which moves me to this present undertaking , but the experience i have of the mistake of some persons , who take the things brought by dr. stilling-fleet in favour of infant baptism , to be of greater weight then what hath been done by other men in that question , as also i might by this paper move some abler hand to reckon morefully and methodically with his new devices , if upon consideration they find themselves concerned to do it . but chiefly my aim is , to move , if it may be , the learned authour , to consider how much he injures the cause he manages against the papists , with so much judgement and learning , whilst he endeavours to support his traditional infant sprinkling ( for baptism it is not ) which being allowed , other innovations of popery , or other sects will certainly be supported together with it , as having the same grounds , and in some respect fairer pretences to obtrude upon the church of god , from all which errours let her be delivered , by the protection of the almighty , to whose grace i comit thee . thine to serve thee in christ . tho. grantham . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants . solomon the wise , hath told us , there are many devices in mans heart . the truth whereof is verified in the multitude of devices old and new which men have found out to darken the counsell of god , teaching the sacred institution of the baptism of repentance for the remision of sins . nevertheless the counsell of god that shall stand , and therefore neither shall the devices of dr. stillingfleet prevail , nor be found ●o much as a rational account of the grounds of infant baptism , albeit divers persons are perswaded that he hath out-done others , that have undertaken to defend that innovation . . first , therefore we shall consider the two texts , john . . act. . , . which he says , according to the interpretation of the fathers and the antient church and the papists themselves do evidently assert infant baptism ▪ it were answer sufficient to tell h●m , that what ever was the interpretation of the fathers , &c. yet , according to the interpretation of the protestants , the grounds of whose religion he presents to give an account off , these texts , doth not hold forth such a necessity of infant baptism , as by some of the antients was imagined , seeing the protestants do not say , as the papists and some before them , no baptism no salvation ; but they more truly teach , that this place is to be understood ( even as some of the fathers also expounded it ) of such as refuse or contemn baptism , and yet saying withall to your confutation , that it is not necessary by water , john , . . to understand the external rite of baptism . see fulk . ans . to the rhemists annot. john . so dr. willit synops . papis . however , it is evident to them that will not shut their eyes that in john . . christ is shewing the way of life , and the duties of regeneration to such as came to him for instruction , and spea●● nothing there , of the case of infants , who ( as one well observes ) cannot overcome the world , by reason of their natural incapacity to know either good or evil , and therefore are not obliged to the duties of the new birth , to wit , repentance , faith and baptism , for whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory that overcometh the world even our faith . and hence it is evident that john . . cannot be understood of infants , who are wholly uncapable of the duties of regeneration . and as eviden● it is , that acts ● . . intends not infants seeing the persons there to be baptised , even every one of them , are required first to repent ; a duty of which infants are wholly uncapable ; and the promise there mentioned is clearly meant of the gi●ts of the holy ghost or the spirit of promise in a special manner , according to the prophesie of jo●l , the extent of which promise is only to the called of the lord , v●rse ▪ and this interpretation also is avouched by learned protestants , see diodate on the text , and erasmus on the same ; dr jer. taylor in his book of confirmation doth fully expound this place , of the promise of the spirit both to the parents , and to the children , as they are the called of the lord , and not to infants in that capacity . lib. proph●cy . so then the pretended evidence of infant baptism from this place is taken away , because this tr●th is hence very evident , that calling by the word of the gospel regeneration ●y faith and repentance are the true antecedents to the baptism of every sinner . . secondly , dr st●lling-fleet states the q●estion between the baptists and the paed●-baptists after this manner . wh●ther our bless●d savio●r hath by a positive precept so determined the subject of baptism , viz. adult persons professing the faith , that the a●teration of the subject , in baptising infants be not a deviation from , a●d a p●rversion off the institution of christ in a substantial part of it ? 〈…〉 short , whether our saviour hath so determined the subject of bapt●sm as to exclude infants . this done he tells us that taking in only the help of scripture and reason , it were no difficult matter to ●rove directly that infants are so far from being excluded baptism by the institution of christ , that there are as many grounds as are necessary to a matter of that nature , to prove that the baptising 〈◊〉 is ●uita●le to the institution of ●hrist , and agreeable to the 〈◊〉 of the church under the gospel . so then , scripture and rea●on ●nly must now deside the controversie , let us hear therefore 〈…〉 st●ll●ng fleet brings from thence , and th●s he speaks . if there were any ground to exclude them it must be either the incapacity of the subject or some express precept and institution of our saviour , but neither of them can be supposed to do it . but i answer , for both these cau●es infants are not to be bapti●ed , and sith their incapacity depends upon the nature of the institution these two reasons are resolved into one ; now the institution of baptism , whether we consider it as delivered by god to his servant john , and by him to us ; or as it is established by precept from christ , for a perpetual ministry in his church to the end of the world ▪ we shall find it delivered by both in such sort , as it is exclusive of infants ; for , in the first place it is deli●ered as the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ; mark . . and every sinner who is said to be baptised by him , is said to be baptised confessing their sins , verse . which we know is not to be expected of infants . the precept of our saviour for the perpetuity of baptism so expresly requires the making every subject a disciple in order thereunto , and that by actual teaching , or preaching the gospel to them , mat. . . mark ▪ according to christs own example , who so made disciples before they were baptised , that no infant with any shew of scripture or reason can possibly be brought within the reach of baptism according to it's institution ; in a word dr. st●ll●ng-fl●et seems , in so many words , to grant in his first state of the question that to bring infants to baptism , is an alteration of the subject , and therefore not agreeable to the institution of christ , in which to admit of alterations is very dangerous . but saith dr. s. the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions must be fetched from the end of them , for this was the ground ef the circumcision of proselites under the law. answer , that the ground of the circumcision of proselites was fetched from the end of the institution , is not true . and indeed had it been left to that , mens various conceits about the ends of such institutions might have made as ill work , as we see yours do now ▪ wherefore the wisdom of god to prevent those dangers , gave express order in that case as appears , gen . . compared with exod. . . . and when a stranger shall sojourn with thee , and will keep the passeover , let all his males be circumcised , and verse , one law shall be to him that is home born , and unto the strager that sojourneth among you . thus we see the law is as express for the circumcising proselites and their males , as for israel themselves diodate also expounds the first place by the second ( the servant that is born ) meaning ( saith he ) the proselite who of his own free will shall add himself to the church by the profession of gods true worship . but now , if we admit dr. s. his rule , that the measure as to the capacity of divine institutions , must be fetched from the ends thereof , yet will he be so farr from gaining , that he will quite lose his cause . for , if by the ends of baptism he means the things signified in baptism ( as that he does , for he said they who are capable of the thing signified ought not to be denyed the sign ) then we shall certainly gain one thing out of two and either of them will serve our turn to shew his mistake , viz. either infants are not capable of baptism , becau●e not capable of all things signified thereby , or else that the protestants do violate their own rule in denying infants some other holy signs , as general as baptism , when yet they are capable of some of the things signified thereby , and this shall evidently appear ●y running the parralell between us , as to the grounds upon which you deny infants the priviledge of the lords table , and we deny them baptism . and first . the things signified by the lords table ( as the ends of that institution ) is christ crucified for us , and to c●me again to receive us to him●elf , of these mercies infants are capable , because they shall be saved by the death and comming of the lord jesus , thus they have the thing signified ▪ yet you deny them the sign because they understand not the thing represented by the sign . answerable to this we say , by baptism is signified the death and resurection of christ and our salvation thereby , of this mercy signified in baptism infants are capable but yet the sign is not given to them because they understand not the thing signified thereby . . the ends , or things signified by the lords table , on our part are , the profession of our fa●th , the manifestation of our union with the church , &c. of these ends infants are not capable , therefore then do not admit them to the lords ta●le . answerable to this we say , the things signified in baptism on our ●●rt , are the profession of o●r faith , and manifestation of our union 〈◊〉 the saints , &c. of these ends ●nfants are not capable , therefore 〈…〉 them not to baptism . . our coming to the lords table holds forth abstainence f●om the levened bread of malice and wickedness , and our feeding upon the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth ; of these ends ( as they are duties ) infants are not capable , therefore you admit them not to the lords table . answerable to this we say , baptism holds forth our death to sin , and the newness of life from our baptism to the end , of these ends of baptism infants are not capable , and therefore we admit them not to baptism , for the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions is to be fetched from the ends of them . the same might be said concerning the imposition of hands with prayer for the spirit of promise , seeing it was practised by the apostles upon the newly baptised indifferently yet you admit no infants to this divine institution , though you suppose them to be baptised , although according to protestant doctrine they are capable of the promise act. . , . and the benediction signified , and obtained thereby by which your inconsistancy with your own rule is further manifested and hence i infer ( according to your own words ) by a parity of reason built on equal grounds , you ought not to baptise infants because the rule and measure , as to divine institutions , or the capacity of the subjects ther●of are to be fetched from the ends thereof . not from some ends only ( and those too only which we please ) as dr. s doth unadvisedly teach , for so there would be no man , or but very few , but might be brought to baptism , or other ordinances , seeing they are capable of several things signified therein , as the death of christ for the sins of the world and his resurection , by which all shall rise again ; and whether they believe it or no , yet he is the lord that bought them , and a mediator between god and them , that his long-suffering might lead them to repentance wherefore your instance of our saviours being baptised without repentance avails you nothing , unless you were a le to prove a special case to be a general rule for the practise of ordinances , which yet you cannot but know is pernicious many ways , nor can you rationally believe that because christ who was no sinner was baptized without repentance , that therefore you must baptise sinners without repentance also ; if otherwise , then why may not persons be admitted to the lords table without self examination , seeing christ did partake of it without self examination , having no need to do so ? certainly though christ did this it shall never be demonstrated that the members of his church may do it without self examination , and yet thus went the matter in old time for hundreds of years together , so true is the maxim admit one absurdity and more will follow . but to make an end of this , its evident : christ in being baptised did his duty to god , and had he not been baptised he had not fulfilled all righteousness ; let it now be shewed that it●s the duty of infants to be baptised , or that they or any body else commits sin in refusing infant baptism , and then we shall stand upon no further capacity on their part nor oppose this instance as to the end for which it is brought but till this be done we justly reject such argumentation . neither is it true , that what we say of the incapacity of infants &c. reflects upon the wisdom of god in appointing circumcision for infants , for gods command made them fit subjects for it , together with the nature of the covenant which he made with abraham , and his , according to the flesh , which covenant he also ordained to be in their flesh by circumcision , gen. . . now therefore when it shall appear , that the covenant of the gospel , ( i mean it , as established by christ in his church ) is made with any man and his seed according to the flesh , and that god hath required the gospel covenant should be in their flesh by baptism , and so every infant born of them , or servant bought with money to be baptised we shall then grant that to insist on the incapacity of infants would reflect upon the wisdom of god , but sith this neither is , nor can be done , all these pretended reflections falls really upon dr. s. for denying infants the lords supper , because of their incapacity , who yet were admitted to the passeover , of which they were as uncapable as of the lords table . what the dr. says further of the ends of baptism to represent and exhibit the nature of the grace of the gospel and to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part : we have considered before , and to what you here add , saying , it instates the partakers of it in the priviledges of the church of god , i answer , that though the dr. speaks right according to the right administration of baptism , yet according to his way of infant baptism it is not so , seeing we all know , infants ( while such ) though sprinkled have no more priviledge in your church then those who are not sprinkled , for the priviledges next following baptism , is to be taught to observe all things whatsoever christ commanded , and to continue in fellowship with the church in breaking of bread and prayer , acts . ma. . . now to tell us that infants are instated in these things , and yet whilst infants have nothing at all to do with them is too gross a vanity . for , if you say they are instated in these priviledges upon future contingences , viz. repentance , faith and newness of life according to the gospel , i answer when this comes to pass they are no infants , nor as infants partake of these priviledges , but as those that are now the sons of god by faith , and thus truly all infants are instated in church priviledges as soon as born , seeing by the death of christ they have a right upon the conditions of the gospel when capable to perform them , thus you mislead the world with a specious pretence of instating their infants in church priviledges , when 't is only an empty sound of words . but the jews infants as they were instated in the priviledges of their church , by circumision , so they entred upon the enjoyment of their priviledges in infancy , appearing by gods commandment three times a year in the temple with the offerings accustomed and to partake of the passeover , with the congregation or family where it was eaten . the dr. saith , nothing can seem wanting of the ends of baptism ( in respect of infants ) but that which seems most cerimonial which is the personal restipulation , which yet may reasonably be supplyed by sponsors , &c. that there is much wanting beside this restipulation in your infant baptism is shewed before , and it is unadvisedly said that the restipulation of the person baptised is the most ceremonial thing in baptism , seeing it is the moral and substantial part being indeed our covenanting with god and in truth the external washing is far more ceremonial as appears pet. . . and for your saying that the personal restipulation in baptism may be reasonably supplyed by godf●thers , is very much below the reason of any christian to affirm ; but is it so ? that sponsors may supply the personal restipulation , which is the greater , then let them also supply the lesser , to wit sprinkling with water , which they can better perform , then the covenant they make for the infant , and then the whole business will appear to have the same reasonableness in every part ▪ viz , wholly unreasonable . thus much touching the capacity of infants ▪ &c. next the dr tells us , that in the institution of baptism there is neither direct nor consequential prohibition of infants to be baptized , and that there is nothing of that nature pretended before the 〈◊〉 comission , mat. . . but here is a mistake , and its strange he never observed that it hath often been demonstrated that , as when circumcision first appeared in the world , it clearly took in the infants of those to whom it was first given , so , accordingly it was propagated ; but when baptism first appeared in the world , it as clearly left out the infants of those to whom it was first ministred , and accordingly was propagated by the holy apostles ▪ insomuch that of the many thousands , and famous churches , that were baptised , all the world is not able to shew so much as one infant to have been baptised in any one of them , nor one word of precept for so doing , and if this be not so much as a consequential prohibition of infant baptism , i shall never believe that the dr. or any else can shew me so much as a consequential prohibition , of infants receiving the lords supper , the imposition of hands &c. and though the dr. consider never so much what apprehensions the apostles had concerning the church state of such as were in external covenant with god , yet he cannot rationally imagine that they should measure the state of the gospel churches by the reason of the covenant which god made with the jews and their seed according to the flesh . seeing it is expresly said from henceforth , to wit from the vanishing of the old covenant , know we no man after the flesh — but now if any man be in christ he is a new creature . and now men are not to be accounted of the church because they are abraham ▪ s seed , but they are accounted abraham ▪ s seed by being in the church of christ , gal. . . if ye be christs then are you abraham 's seed , and heirs according to promise . neither is it true that christ commanded his apostles to gather whole nations into churbes , as the dr. affirms , neither did the apostles gather any one whole nation , or city into a church s●ate that we read of , therefore churches consisting of whole nations , men , women and infants , are not apostollical but this the apostles did they taught many nations , . v. their sound went through many nations , not that they taught all manner of persons in the nations , for they taught no infants , and the persons by them gathered into the church , were only such as received their doctrine , as appears by those families where their gospel was received , the husband sometimes opposite to the wife , and otherwhiles the wife to the husband servants and masters likewise differing in the same family about christianity , . cor. . if then the apostles did not gather whole families into a church state unless they did wholly believe , act. . how-should any man imagine , they gathered whole nations ? the greatest part whereof by all experience are wicked persons yea in those very nations , which men pretend to have made into churches of christ of which would god england were not so full an evidence as it is this day . the dr. grants that the order of words mat. , . ( teach all nations baptising them ) was necessary for those who were then to be proselited to christianity . and we say they are as necessary for the generations following , who have as much need of true faith and repentance ▪ or the first principles of christianity in order to their being christians , as them that went before , and it is a pernitious alteration of the order of christs commission , to out-run it●s direction so , as to make persons to be christians , before they do or can know the least title of christianity . the case which the dr. puts , about going to disciple the indians baptising them , is not at all rational , but upon the pre-supposition , that the person so doing , to have seen or known them , that gives him his authority to baptise infants , and then indeed it 's rational to suppose such a person would not understand that the words , disciple the indians baptising them , would exclude infants . but yet i must also say , that his ground to believe so could not arise from the words themselves but from the practice presupposed . wherefore the apostles having direction to teach all nations baptising them , without the least knowledge of any infants baptized by any baptists which were before them , or from whom they received their authority , here is no place for the drs. suppositions at all . as little cause hath he to think that had any one said to abraham he that believeth and is circumcised shall be saved , it ought so to have been interpreted , as that infants ought to be circumcized . for if this had been all the rule given for circumcision , it must of necessity have been limited to such as believe only , and unless the dr. know how from good ground to satisfie his conscience , that infants are believers of that which is taught or preached according to mark . ( which place he aludes unto ) he must so limit the diversion for baptising . but if indeed he take infants to be such believers , then he is answered by dr. hammond in his let. of resol . p. . who saith , as for the question whether infants have faith ? i profess my self to be none of those who are concerned in it . i freely confess to believe , faith to be so necessarily founded in understanding , that they that have not understandisg cannot have faith , whethe actual or habitual . the conclusion therefore is , sith in the case you put , the word ( believe ) cannot concern infants , and that they must be deemed capable of salvation , though they believe not , it is every way safe to think them unconcern●d in the other duty , that passage mark . . or any other like unto it notwithstanding . finally the dr. proposes five considerations about the suitableness of in●ant baptism to the administration of things under the gospel , and first he saith . . that if it had been christs intention to exclude infants , there had been far greater reason for an express prohibition then for an express command , if his intention were to admit them , because this was suitable to the general grounds of gods dispensation among them before . answer , here is little said but what hath been answered before , and may be answered by saying , had it been christs intention that infants should not be admitted to the lords table there had been more need of an express prohibition , &c. then of an express command , &c. because suitable to gods dispensations among them before . thus argumentum ad hominem . but i answer further , it is dangerous arguing to our present right to sacraments , from gods dispensations among the jews , seeing the state of the church , and the di●pensation is so much altered as that the former was but carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the other . . the dr. saith , it is very hard to conceive that the apostles thought infants excluded by christ , when after christs ascention they looked upon themselves bound to observe the jewish customes , even when they had baptized many thousands , answer , it is ill said that the apostles were bound to observe any such jewish customes because of any suitableness between them and things under the gospel ( which is the mark you ought to hit or you say nothing ) but the reason why they did observe such customes for a time , was the weakness of the jews , and we find the apostles did as speedily put a period to such customes as they could acts . . to . acts . which clearly shews jewish customes was not suitable to things under the gospel , and here circumcision one of the chief of jewish rites , is clearly abolished among the rest , so that a man would think infant baptism should never have been built upon it . . the dr saith if admission of infants to baptism were a meer relique of judaism , it seems strange that none of the judaizing christians should be charged with it ; who yet are charged with the observation of other judaical r●tes .. answer , i find no man saying that infant baptism was a relique of judaism , save dr. hammond , and some from him , and he indeed would make believers baptism also a jewish relique whiles he teaches that the jews baptising proselites , and their children was the original , and the baptism ●f the christian church but the coppy , by which device he hath opened a gap to our late n●tionists to deprive the church of sacred baptism altogether , and hath done more to weaken the cause of infant baptism then any other of its favourites , in laying its foundation in jewish ceremonies , for which they had no clear command from god. but great is this truth of believers baptism , and will stand notwithstanding the injury done by dr. hammond , for it was no jewish rite , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins was from heaven , mat. . . and the pharisees who ●ere ●ealous enough for jewish rites , rejcted holy baptism , which christ asfi●ms to be the counsel of god lu. . . and testifies out of the consciences of his enemies , that he that t●aches otherwise denyes john to be a prophet . this then is the thing that truly seems strange , that no mention is made of infant baptism , if indeed it was at all received in the christian church either as a jewish rite or otherwise , but not str●●●e at all that none is charged with it , seeing none can be named that held it . . since theie wish christians were so much offended saith the dr. at the neglect of circumcision , acts . can we in reason think they should quietly bear their children being wholly thrown out of the church , as they would have been , if neither admitted by circumcision nor baptism . answer , since the false apostles was so earnest to have the christians circumcise their children , it 's strange that none of the true apostles could or would quiet them by saying instead of infant circumcision you have infant baptism if indeed there had been any such thing practiced , for , this way went the apostle paul to still them , vvhen they would have brought the believers themselves under circumsion , col. two . telling the chriffians they vvere circumcised vvith the circumcision made vvithout hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the ▪ flesh by the circumcision of christ , buried vvith him in baptism , vvherein ye also are ●isen with him through the faith , &c. and why might not the jews as qui●tly take the non-admission of infants to baptism , as they so took the non-admission of them to the lords supper seeing they were formerly admitted to the passeover , nor i● it necessary to say , that though they were not admitted to either of these , that therefore they are wholly thrown out of the church ; for , if by church be meant the whole number of the saved , then are infants of the churchs for christ hath told us the kingdom of god belongs to infants , and thus were infants of the church before circumcision was for some thousands of years : but if by church be meant those only vvho are concerned in the actual profession of the gospel , in this respect i grant infants are not of the church , god having no vvhere required this of infants in his gospel . infants are novv as vvell as before the flood , vvithin the covenant of the gospel in respect of the grace of eternal life , but are not under the duties of the covenant , to vvit , repentance , faith baptism perseverance , &c. nor can my calling the whole number of the saved the church , and thus making infants a part thereof offend a protestant who is acquainted with protestant doctrines , seeing mr. rogers cath. doctrine p. . upon art. . of the church of england , do●h affirm , there is an invisible church , and takes all within the compass of ●his church who are elect , tryumphing or that shall tryumph in heaven dr. field takes into his definition of the church all the elect , of men or angels , caled , or not yet called . l. . c. . so that according to these defi●itions of the churc● , infants are not thrown out of the church though not of the number of the called , and consequently not that cause for the jews to complain , nor any other which the dr. doth imagine ; unless they be not acquainted with the extent of the covenant of gods grace in christ iesus our lord. five , the doctor lastly tells us , that had it been contrary to christs institution ( to baptise infants ) we should not have had such evidence of it's early practice in t●e church , and here i acknowledge the use of apostolical tradition to manifest this to us . answer , this is altogether unlike a protestant : what are the sacraments so darkly laid down in the scripture that vve knovv not vvhen and to vvhom they belong vvithout tradition ? but vvhen shall vve see this tradition apostolical , i think doctor ta●lor expresly denies there is any tradit apostolical . lib. proph●si . p. . . but the doctor cannot but knovv there be errou●s ●vhich crept into the church even in the apostles days , vvhich also continued in some of them , notvvithstanding all endeavours to purge them , such vvere circumcision and keeping the lavv. or if we list to reckon vvith records of antiquity , 't is easi● o show some things held by papists and opposed by the doctor are better proved by tradi●ion then infant baptism , for example the lent fast ond prayer for the dead , this is not denyed by mr. perkins demonst . prob . what then shall be gained to the protestant religion by such traditional arguments . it is a notable saying of irenae●s ( according to dr. fulk ) wsen the hereticks are reproved out of the scriptures they ●all to accusing the scriptures as if all is not well in them — and that the truth cannot be found out of them that know not the tradition . and saith tertul , ( according to dr. fulk ) take away those things from the hereticks , which they hold with ethnicks , that they may stay their questions upon scripture only . finis . errata . p. . l. . r. is right , p. . l. . r. of a midwife p. . l. . for these r. those p. . l. . for others r. overs . vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping, to continue communion with those churches, or imbodied societies of saints, of which they were members before the said dipping; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity, whether of officers, or other members, in these churches (respectively) by deserting these churches, is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god. together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion, infant and after baptism. by john goodwin, a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son. goodwin, john, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping, to continue communion with those churches, or imbodied societies of saints, of which they were members before the said dipping; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity, whether of officers, or other members, in these churches (respectively) by deserting these churches, is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god. together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion, infant and after baptism. by john goodwin, a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son. goodwin, john, ?- . , [ ] p. printed by j.m. for henry cripps and lodowick lloyd, and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley., london, : . in part a reply to: allen, william. an answer to mr. j.g. his xl queries. with a final errata leaf. annotation on thomason copy: "december :". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng allen, william, d. . -- answer to mr. j.g. his xl queries -- early works to . baptists -- controversial literature -- early works to . baptism -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) f goodwin, john d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion : or considerations proving it not simply lawful , but necessary also ( in point of duty ) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping , to continue communion with those churches , or imbodied societies of saints , of which they were members before the said dipping ; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity , whether of officers , or other members , in these churches ( respectively ) by deserting these churches , is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god . together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion , infant and after baptism . by john goodwin , a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son . ye did run well ; who did hinder you , that ye should not obey the truth ? gal. . . let them return unto thee , but return not thou unto them . jer. . . if there be any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies , fulfil ye my joy ; be ye like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one mind : let nothing be done through strife or vain glory , &c. phil. . , , . london , printed by j. m. for henry cripps and lodowick lloyd , and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley . . to the reader . good reader , how thou wilt interpret , or accept of , the considerations here presented unto thee , i know not . the ground of my doubt is , because they are but as so many candles lighted up to shew unto men the sun . never did my pen labor in a cause more expedite and facil : yet this ( i confess ) is fully balanced with the unreasonableness and difficulty of conviction in those persons , with whom i have chiefly to do . and since all proof ought to be made by somewhat more manifest and better known , then the conclusion in question ; he whose task it is to prove that twice two make four , must needs have an hard province to manage . my engagement in these papers is ( upon the matter ) only to prove , that jesus christ doth not require of his followers to be promise-breakers for his sake ( much less for a ceremonies sake ) when the matter of these promises is just , and holy , and good ; least of all when these promises have been solemnly made , and as in his own presence , and unto persons relating in faith and holiness unto himself . it is a polique maxim maintained by the consistory of rome , that promises are not to be kept with heretiques : but that promises should not be kept with saints and true beleevers , and so acknowledged , certainly is the apprehension and conceit of a troubled and maimed fancy . and i confess that the cure of a misused and distempered fancy is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , little better then an hopeless undertaking ; seldom atchieved by art , or skill ; sometimes by chance , or providence out of course . however , my small pains in teaching these papers to speak as they do , shall be largely rewarded , if god shall only please to use them as a shield , wherewith to defend those , which are yet whole and sound , from like impressions of distemper . thine , to serve thee in the things , both of thy present , and eternal peace , j. g. considerations , proving it not simply lawful , but necessary also in point of duty , for persons baptized after the new mode of diping , to continue in communion with those churches , or imbodied societies of saints , of which they were members before the said dipping or baptizing ; and that to betray their trust , or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity , whether of officers , or other members in these churches respectively , by deserting these churches , is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god . consideration i. it is evident from many notable passages of scripture , that god himself hath given a kind of superintendency or power of regulation unto the law of nature , the dictates and duties thereof , over institutions , and ceremonial commands , and the observations of these , ( even as he hath given a like power unto some institutions over others , mat. . . ) so that when and whilest the observation of an institution or ceremony cannot take place , or be practised , without trespassing upon some branch or other of the said law of nature , then and so long , the said observation is to give place : nor is the law of god requiring it , in such a case , broken , or disparaged in the least . have ye not read ( saith our saviour to the phaerssees ) what david did when he was an hungered , and they that were with him , how he entered into the house of god , and did eat the shewbread , which was not lawful for him to eat [ viz. in ordinary cases , ] neither for them which were with him , but for the priests only , mat. . , . and soon after : but if ye had known what this meaneth , i will have mercy , and not sacrifice , ye would not have condemned the guiltless : for the son of man * is lord even of the sabbath day . again , a few verses after : what man shall there be among you , that shall have one sheep , and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day , will he not lay hold on it , and lift it out ? how much then is a man better then a sheep ? elsewhere : if thou bring thy gift to the altar , and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee , leave there thy gift before the altar , and go thy way : first be reconciled to thy brother , and then offer thy gift , mat. . , . [ our brethren , in stead of reconciling themselves to their brethren , fall out with them , and then go and offer their gift of dipping . ] from the same lips in another place this dew of heaven falleth : the sabbath was made for man , and not man for the sabbath , mark . . circumcision was a great institution of god , and obedience unto it most strictly and solemnly commanded : yet they to whom it was particularly commanded , omitted the observation and practise of it for forty years together ; and this without any other warrant , dispensation , relaxation , or permission from god , but only that which by the light and law of nature he granted unto them , and yet are blameless . and yet it may be worthy consideration , that the inconvenience in nature , i mean the degree of smart , pain , trouble , or danger in any kind , the prevention and avoyding whereof they judged ( and truly ) a sufficient dispensation from god for a forbearance of circumcision during their travel , was not so great or threatening , but that in probability they might have endured it , without the loss of any of their lives . the jews of later times , though rigid enough in their doctrine concerning the observation of their sabbath , yet have this maxim , periculum vitae pellit sabbatum , peril of life drives away the sabbath . but on the contrary it is no where to be found in scripture , that god giveth any superintendency unto institutions or ceremonial observations over the moral law , or authority to over-rule the dictates or any the principles of the law of nature , or to exempt any man from the performance of any duty required hereby . how much less will he justifie any man , in pleading the necessity of submitting to such a ceremony , which , or at least the necessity whereof , more probably is of humane , then divine institution , by way of bar to the performance of such duties , which the moral law , yea the law of nature it self , requireth ? therefore inexcuseable altogether are such persons , both in the sight of god , and men , who pretend themselves disobliged from the performance of such promises , which they have solemnly made unto their brethren , by a necessary of subjecting to an external rite or ceremony : how much more , when the observation of this rite or ceremony , is , and always hath been , by all the judicious , learned and faithful servants of god in the christian world ( a very few , and these upon no accompt , very considerable , excepted ) adjudged no ways necessary by vertue of any precept , or command of god ? god ( doubtless ) by the law of nature , and of love to their brethren , requireth of such men a forbearance of their ceremony ( though supposed of divine institution ) for the peace , comfort , spiritual accommodation and edification of their brethren , rather then the practise of it to their offence , trouble , and distraction , yea to the danger of the precious souls of many weak ones , who are emboldened by their example , having no sufficient ground in themselves for such a practise , to condemn themselves in allowing and practising the same ceremony . for , as our saviour of the sabbath , so say i of baptism : baptism was made for man , and not man for baptism . baptism was made , or ordained , for man , [ i. e. for mans benefit , comfort , and accommodation ; and consequently , is only to be used and administred in order hereunto , and so not to his disturbance , danger , or distraction , ] not man for baptism , [ i. e. man was not made or created by god for any such end as this , that baptism by his trouble , sorrow , molestation or danger should be magnified or exalted in the world . ] and why it should not savour of as much christianity , and be of equal acceptance with god , for the peace of the churches and servants of god in these days , to lay asleep a living ordinance for a time , as it did in the apostle paul to awaken a dead ordinance ( i mean circumcision ) upon the same account in his days , i understand not . consideration ii. the churches and societies of the saints , which are not actually and externally baptized with that figure or kind of baptism so much contended for , yet , supposing this very baptism to be the only baptismal ordinance of christ , and that it is his will that they should be baptized with it , they are , according to the rule and standard of divine estimate and acceptance , baptized therewith , as well as those persons themselves , who so impotently please themselves in their subjection to the letter of it . the standard , or standing rule of divine estimate , is this : if there be first a willing mind , a man is accepted according to that he hath , ( so it were better rendered , though the difference be not material , ) and not according to that he hath not , cor. . . by a like rule god likewise estimateth the sinfulness and wickedness of men . whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her , hath committed adultery with her already in his heart , mat. . . so then if the members of unbaptized churches ( so called ) have a willing mind , are prepared and large-hearted to submit unto all and every the ordinances of christ , and consequently , unto new-baptism it self , ( supposing this to be one of that retinue , ) but only want the opportunity of light and conviction so to judg & conceive of it , they are accepted with god , and esteemed by him , ( and ought they not then to be so with men ? ) as persons baptized with that very baptism . yea the truth is , that if the unbaptized churches sin , or be blame-worthy , for not being actually baptized after the manner of the brethren of new-baptism , these persons themselves are in a great degree accessary unto such their sin , partly by administring unto them only weak and insufficient grounds for their conviction , partly also ( and more especially ) by causing , through their pride , frowardness , insolency and disdainfulness of spirit , together with many other strains of most unchristian behaviour towards them , that sacrifice of the lord ( if such it be ) to be abhorred . besides , i am all thoughts made , that the far greater part of those , who have been prevailed with to accept of a dip for baptism , neither have , nor ever had , either that love unto , nor sacred and reverent esteem of , all the ordinances of christ , which thousands of those have , whom god hath not yet so perswaded . so then they who refuse communion with such saints , who have not been actually baptized with their baptism , upon this pretence only , that they have not been thus baptized , reject the communion of those , whom god reputeth to have been baptized with that very baptism , for the want of which such men reject them , ( always supposed , as hath been said , that the dipping-baptism is the sole baptism . ordinance of christ . ) consideration iii. the scripture very frequently and expresly teacheth , that by faith men become and are made the children of abraham , and sons of god . but as many as received him , to them gave he power to become the sons of god , even to them that beleeve on his name , joh. . . but ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus , joh. . . see also rom. . , , . if then true beleevers be the sons of god , then must all they needs be bastards , and no sons of god , but children of satan , who are not their brethren . and if they who are the sons of god , and consequently their brethren , be ashamed of them , and shall refuse to own them in their church-fellowship , are they not ashamed of those , of whom the lord christ professeth before heaven and earth that he is not ashamed ; no , not ashamed to own them in the relation of brethren ? for both he that sanctifieth , and they who are sanctified , are all of one : for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren , hebr. . . must not then jesus christ needs look upon those men , as greater in their own conceit , either in holiness , or in dignity , or in both , then himself , who are ashamed of such persons , of whom he is not ashamed ; yea indeed in whom he glorieth , as being ( with their fellows ) his fulness ; and in whom he shall come to be glorified and admired in the great day ? a thess. . . or is not the great jealousie of christ like to be provoked , when men shall presume to make , or call , that common , which he hath sanctified with his own blood , and made express declaration from heaven accordingly ? or can either a thing , or person , be made , or called common , in a more disgraceful , or reproachful way , then when men shall separate from them as unclean , or defective in holiness ? consideration iv. such persons , whom god judgeth meet for communion and fellowship with himself , and his son jesus christ , the reasons and grounds of this his judgment being visible in these persons , especially being acknowledged also by men , ought not to be judged unmeet for any holy communion with the holiest of men , especially not by those , who do acknowledg those things in these persons , which are the grounds of their acceptance into the said communion with god . the apostle instructing the strong in faith , in their duty towards the weak [ i. e. towards those who were at present ignorant of many things which the other knew ] saith thus : him that is weak in the faith , receive you : and again ; let not him that eateth [ i. e. the strong in faith , who understands his liberty ] despise him that eateth not , [ i. e. the weak , ] rom. , . the reason , why god would have no despising of weak christians on the one hand , nor judging of those that were strong on the other , is delivered by the apostle in these words , [ vers . . ] for god hath accepted him ; i. e. as well the weak , as the strong ; and again , the strong as well as the weak , ( the reason equally relating to both the preceding clauses in the verse ; ) clearly avouching gods accepting of persons , when discovered , or acknowledged by men , for an obliging ground upon these , not to despise them , or [ which is by the apostle interpreted as the same ] to reject them from their communion . now the grounds of gods acceptance of men and women as meet for communion with him , and his son jesus christ , are from place to place in the scriptures declared such , which are owned and acknowledged by persons themselves baptized according to the new and late edition of this ordinance ( so much corrected , enlarged , and amended ) in those churches , and their members , who at present make use of the former edition only . in every nation ( saith peter , speaking of god ) he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted with him , acts . . the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost : for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable unto god , &c. rom. . , . if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellovvship one with another , &c. ( to omit other places of like import , which are many . ) now the brethren of the new baptized churches themselves , at least such of them whose judgments and consciences have not been drowned by the dipping of their bodies , do acknowledg all the said qualifications , as the fear of god , the working righteousness , &c. to be as visible in the members of bodies by them called , unbaptized , as in their own . yea some of them as yet retain so much christian ingenuity , as to confess , that in our unbaptized churches ( to please jews , we speak in the jewish language ) we have persons of as great , or greater worth , for holiness , righteousness , the fear and love of god , with all other christian accomplishments , as themselves have in the best of their congregations , notwithstanding the unimaginable advantage of their baptism . i wish in my soul for their sakes , that god would mercifully please to put it into their hearts seriously to consider , of what insufferable height and insolency of spirit it strongly savoreth , for men to judg those unworthy their communion , whom the most holy god , the great and high possessor of heaven and earth , accepteth into his . consideration v. the main pillar upon which the house of our new dippers of men , and dividers of churches , is built , is the signification of the verb baptizo , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , translated to baptize : as for others , they are much more crazy , although neither is this of any great strength . but how few are there amongst those , who with so much violence and height of confidence build troubles , sorrows , distractions and confusions of christian churches , upon this pillar , that understand little or much what the said word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} meaneth , or what it signifieth . for ought they know ( upon their own account ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} may signifie , either to tide , or to run , or to build , as well as to dip ; so that all the faith they have , of the proper signification of the said word , is built upon the authority and tradition of men . and the truth is , that men of greatest judgment and knowledg in the greek tongue are not agreed about the adequate or exact signification of it . certain it is , that the word which properly , primitively , and originally signifieth to dip , is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , nor {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} being only a frequentative ( as grammarians speak ) and of a diminutive form , from the original {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is from the verb {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} from {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( with many others of like consideration in the greek tongue . ) and very considerable it is , that the scripture of the new testament , where ever it hath occasion to express the act of dipping , constantly useth the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , never {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , [ see luk. . . joh. . . revel. . . ] as on the contrary , where ever it hath occasion to mention or express the sacred action of baptism , it never useth the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , but always , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . yea it is granted by the dipping grandees themselves , that the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is often found in the new testament it self , where it signifieth nothing less ( or rather somewhat less ) then dipping . yea that when it is used in the sacramental signification , that it doth not signifie or import , dipping , unless it be said to signifie undipping , or lifting out of the water also , is to me evident from most , if not all the places , where the sacred action known by the name of baptizing , is expressed by it . i shall argue only that one ( at present ) mat. . . the apostles commission there , as to the matter of baptizing , is expressed by the said word ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. now if the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} here signifies to dip , and not to undip , or heave out of the water , then had the apostles no authority at all , or commission from christ , to perform the one half of the baptismal transaction , ( we speak now according to the dipping principles ) viz. that which consists in the lifting or taking up out of the water , those whom they were to dip into or under the water : but in case they did raise or help them out of the water , they did it upon their own heads , and without commission ; and consequently it could be no part of the baptismal transaction . how unreasonable a thing then is it , and unworthy christians , to swell against their peaceable brethren , ( their brethren partakers of like precious faith with themselves ) to separate themselves from their holy assemblies , as if they were the synagogues of satan , to pronounce them unclean for christian communion , &c. upon the account only , or chiefly , of humane tradition , and of such things whereof themselves can have no certain knowledg , no , nor yet men of far greater learning and knowledg , then they ? consideration vi . no authority can discharge , or disoblige , but that which is either greater then , or at least , equal unto that which bindeth . the authority of such a command of god , which is manifestly and undisputeably such , and is so acknowledged by the consciences of all men , is greater , then of any such command , whereof it is matter of doubtful disputation whether he be the author , or no . it is ( i presume ) no mans doubt or question , but that , . it is the command of god . that they who have promised things lawful , and meet to be done , and in their power to do , should perform their promise accordingly ; how much more when such promises have been made in a sacred and solemn manner , in the presence of christ , and of a great number of his saints round about him , yea and ( in some sort ) unto christ himself ? nor , . can it be any christian mans question , but that christian offices of love , as the edifying , comforting , admonishing , counselling , watching over brethren , supporting those that are weak , refreshing the bowels of those that stand in need , with other services belonging either to elders , or members of christian congregations , are things very lawful to be done , yea and more then lawful , especially when they have been promised . therefore unless men , who have promised such things as these , can shew as fair , as full , as express a discharge from god , from the performance of them , as that command of his is , which he hath layed upon them for their performance , they are to be looked upon as promise-breakers ( and this of one of the worst and most horrid kinds ) if they shall refuse , or neglect , to perform them . now i appeal to the consciences of those persons themselves , who upon any pretence whatsoever ( especially upon the pretence of a false baptism , so called only by themselves ) shall , after their covenant struck , and promise made , with and to any christian church , or society of saints , to perform all the particulars specified , turn their backs upon this church , thus treading and trampling under foot their holy covenant and promise , whether they can produce any thing from god , or from the word of god , so particular and express for their discharge and disobligement in this kind , as that command of his is , by which both they and all others stand charged to keep promise . i fear the sin of churchbreaking , yea and church-deserting without the leave or consent of the church deserted , will not be understood or duly considered by men , until the punishment of it come to be suffered , and then it will be too late . a pretended defect in , or of , baptism , will not excuse any mans waxing wanton , or kicking with the heel , against christ in any of his churches , or assemblies of his saints ; no nor yet any such defect as this in truth of being . consideration vii . in that very text of scripture , hebr. . . wherein our new baptists place a great part of their trust for the support of their cause , there is evidently imported a plurality of baptisms ; the doctrine or explication of which is here numbered amongst the foundations of christ , i. e. such heads of doctrine , wherein persons were wont to be instructed ( as it were ) in the infancy of their christian profession , in order to their further increase in knowledg . now whether the holy ghost by mentioning , baptisms ( in the plural number ) did not intend to insinuate , that however in one sence and consideration there be only one baptism , ephes. . . [ viz. in respect of the signification and end of baptizing , ] yet in respect of variety of subjects , and of different forms of administration , wherein it might be , or was to be , administred , it might not be many , is ( i suppose ) not so easie upon grounds satisfactory to a considering man , to determine : yet i judg it much more difficult for any man upon such an account to prove the contrary . therefore such persons who call christian churches and societies of men , accursed , or unclean , for want of such or such a determinate form of baptizing , are not able to give any reasonable or christian account of such their hard sayings ; nor yet to prove , that a plurality of baptisms , as well in respect of different kinds of subjects , as of external modes of administration , was not intended , or allowed by christ , nor ( consequently ) that the baptism practised in the churches of their reproach , is not a baptism approved by him . consideration viii . every kingdom ( saith christ ) divided against it self , is brought to desolation : and every city or house divided against it self , shall not stand , mat. . . meaning , that in all communities and societies of men , greater or l●sser , divisions of one part against another , threaten dissolution of the whole . in consideration whereof some of the ancient fathers judged a schismatical rending and dividing of the church , to proceed only from a diabolical spirit , and to be a sin of very near affinity with that which is unpardonable * . now although i judg this somewhat too hard and heavy a censure of schismatical practises , and in this respect like to the censures wherewith schismatiques themselves always burthen those christian societies , from which they rend themselves , for wanting one thing or other that should make them cize with the standard of their imaginations , yet due consideration had of all those high appearances of the holy ghost in scripture against schisms , divisions , strifes and contentions amongst imbodied saints , the sin of schism must needs be adjudged a sin of a deep demerit , and high provocation , in the sight of god , and of christ . and the more precipitate , violent and heady any schism shall be , and with how much the more contempt , and neglect of those , in respect either of giving , or receiving satisfaction about the pretended ground of schismatizing , against whom the sin shall be committed , and again , the less considerable , all circumstances duly weighed , the matter pretended for the schism-making shall be , so much the more haynous must the sin needs be , and punishable with the sorer judgment by god . now whether the schism made by the rebaptizing party of professors amongst us , from those churches , of which they were lately members , upon the only pretence of a defect of baptism , be not fearfully aggravated by all the said circumstances , i leave to their own consciences , when god shall have awakened them , to consider . consideration ix . that determinate kind of baptism , which is the fire-brand of contention amongst the saints , and which hath put the christian world about us into a flame , is by one of the gravest authors , and and greatest apostles of the anti-paedo baptistical faith , called ( and that with evidence enough of truth ) a carnal ceremony † , i. e. an external rite of some sacred signification , or import . now to make new partition walls of carnal ceremonies , and this not only between abrahams spiritual seed , and the prophane gentile part of the world , but between one part of this blessed seed it self , and another , so that the one , because of this ceremony rising up in their way , may not come at , to enjoy any spiritual communion , with the other , is it not the founding of a new kind of judaism in the world ; and the making work for christ to be crucified a second time for the dissolution of it ? consideration x. ignorance in some things appertaining to the knowledg of god , and the mystery of christ , whether found in a church , or in particular persons , rendereth neither the one nor the other unclean upon any such terms , but that both may lawfully , and without the least tincture of guilt , be conversed with in a church-way . otherwise there will neither church , nor member , be found upon earth , but whose communion will defile us ; in as much as the apostle , speaking as well of himself and his fellow apostles , as of the intire successive body of christians in all ages , saith ; we know in part , and we prophecy in part , cor. . . again , where churches , or persons , know but in part , it cannot be expected they should practise in whole , or in full . he is a good christian , who practiseth and walketh up to his light , though he doth not walk above it , yea although his light be somewhat low , and mixt with much darkness . and though an erring or mistaking conscience , will not simply or totally justifie a concurring practise , yet will it justifie it comparatively ; it being better to follow the dictate or light of a mis-guided or mis-taught conscience , then to rebel against it . otherwise sad were the case of those sacrilegious church-breakers , who out of conscience ( i judg no worse of many of them ) practise this enormity . now then they who give sentence against a church , or people , as unclean for communion , only because they do not practise baptismal dipping , must ground the equity of such a sentence , either , . upon their non-conviction of the necessity of such a practise ; or , . upon the non-practise it self , which they must suppose , either to be concurrent with , or repugnant unto , the light of their judgments and consciences . if the former of these , the ignorance or non-conviction of a church , or people , of the necessity of dipping , be pretended for a ground of the sentence we speak of , to justifie this pretence , it must be proved , that every mistake or dissatisfaction in judgment , in any controversal point whatsoever of like difficulty or disputeableness with that about the necessity of dipping , rendereth a church or people unclean for communion . but i look to see jesus christ as he is , long before this be proved . . if the ground of the said sentence be the latter , the non-practise of dipping , then , in case it be supposed that this non-practise be a matter of conscience in the church or people we speake of , and confirm to their judgments , they are adjudged unclean for not defiling , or not sinning against , their conscience . but far be it from us to suspect our brethren in the faith , of such a judgment as this . if it be supposed to be contrary to their judgment , and that in refusing to practise baptismal dipping , they go against their consciences , then are the supposers judgers of evil thoughts , supposing that which they cannot prove , indeed have no ground or reason at all to suspect , but ground in abundance to conclude the contrary . so that they can upon no christian or reasonable ground pronounce any such hard sentence against their non dipping brethren , as of uncleanness for church communion . and if they would but please plainly and clearly to declare , wherein they place the high demerit , the unpardonable crime of non-dipping , whilest men remain dissatisfied , either touching the lawfulness , or necessity of the practise , i verily beleeve they would soon be ashamed of their notion , and out of hand pull down all they have built upon it . consideration xi . when the apostle writeth to the churches in his days , in sundry the inscriptions of his epistles unto them , wherein he describeth them , he insereth the mention of their sanctification , their calling to be saints , their being beloved of god , their saintship , their faithfulness in christ , &c. but never so much as hinteth their having been baptized . which is a strong presumption at least ( if not a demonstration ) that in case it be supposed that all these churches were baptized , yet the apostle did not look upon their baptism as any part of their church-ship , or of the visibility thereof , much less as any essential part or point of either . for if such a thing shall be supposed , what reason can be imagined , why their baptism should not once , or twice at least , have been mentioned in their discription , as well as their faith , sanctification , calling &c. so frequently , and ( well-nigh ) constantly ( i mean , one , or other of them . ) so then it is a plain case that the apostle doth not estimate the truth of churches by the observation or practise of baptism ( much less by the practise of such or such a determinate kind of baptizing ) but by the faith and holiness of the persons inchurched . baptism is never mentioned so much as by way of commendation , either of church or person , ( at least not more then the observance of other ordinances ) no not when several other matters of praise are insisted on in reference unto either : ( see cor. , . rom. . . cor. . , . ephes. . . luk. . . acts. . . to pass over other texts of like import ) and yet many things may be commendable in either , which are not essentially requisite to their being . and ( doubtless ) if men were not under some strong enchantment , and the rational powers of their souls strangely held , in reference ( at least ) to the subject we now speak o● , such an imagination as this would never have been found amongst all their thoughts , that baptism according to one mode , or other , should be a constituting principle of a true church . consideration xii . when the apostle paul instructeth christian churches with their respective members , who and what manner of persons they are , who are unmeet for their christian communion , he mentioneth fornicators , covetous , idolaters , railers , drunkards , extortioners , disorderly walkers , &c. but never persons of an holy and blamless conversation , whether baptized , or unbaptized . if our brethren reply , that there was no occasion why he should mention persons unbaptized , in as much as there was none such in these days , who lived holily , or had the names of brethren amongst christians ; we answer , . that our brethren are still wont to use slime in stead of mortar to build their babel ; i mean , to make use of light conjectures , loose suppositions , presumptions , self-imaginations , &c. in stead of solid and clear demonstrations , either from the scriptures , or sound principles in reason , for the defence and support of their cause . to say that in the times we speak of , there were no saints reputed brethren in any christian church , who were unbaptized , is somewhat lighter then a meer conjecture , and not of any more weight then such a supposition , which hath much reason and strength of probability against it ( as hath been shewed elsewhere . ) . in case we should releive the poor , and grant our brethren their said supposition without proof , yet how do they know that in case there had been any unbaptized persons reputed brethren amongst the churches ( especially such , the truth and validity of whose baptism had been the only question , for this is the case between us and our brethren ) that the apostle would have ranked them amongst fornicators , drunkards , idolaters , &c. and prohibited the churches of christ communion as well with the one , as with the other ? but . when our brethren pronounce the saints and servants of god unclean for church communion , upon a pretence only ( or be it a true plea ) of their not being baptized , do they not intrude themselves into the prerogative office of christ , making new orders , laws , and constitutions of themselves for church communion , which were never made by him ? or if they desire to be judged innocent of this great offence , let them produce from the gospel some order or law of this tenor , or import , that he that hath only been washed in the name of christ , and not dipt over head and ears , shall be unclean for christian communion , although the image of god in righteousness and true holiness be never so resplendent and lovely in him . consideration xiii . a submission unto the ordinance of baptism upon those terms on which it is obtruded by our brethren upon all sorts of beleevers , is , as themselves also acknowledg , yea and boast of ( though to the shame both of their opinion , and practise in the way ) very offensive , burthensome , and greivous to the flesh . and the truth is , that when men or women , especially being any thing weak or tender of constitution , shall in winter or cold seasons be perswaded unto it , they had need purifie themselves , as men at sea use to do ( god himself observing and reporting it , job . . . ) by reason of the breakings of leviathan , i. e. when they expect nothing but death by being wrackt by this unruly and formidable creature . yea for many to go into rivers , or ponds to be dowsed over head and ears , in such seasons , is as express a tempting god , as a passing through the fire would be . one of those poor women lately perswaded into the watery paradise about newington , had much ado to recover the air with her life , saying when she came from the water to her self , words , either these , or to a like effect ; that she was almost gon , and that well might the business of baptizing be resembled to christs death , for she was nigh unto death by it . the rest , who had somewhat a better return of their venture , yet sustained loss . there was not very long before a maid-servant living within a door or two of me , in the city , who being led ( by what spirit let understanding christians judg ) to meet with jesus christ under water , was so far from being healed of the infirmity , which she carried thither , that she brought with her out of the water the extream torture of several days together . what became of her after this , i know not . and how severely the healths , yea and lives of men and women are almost continually threatened , and sometimes severely handled , by the waters of baptismal dipping , are matters better known to many others , then my self . and if they be thus terribly austere to the flesh in the southern parts of england , what may we judg them to be in the northen parts of scotland , and in climates of far less communion with the warmth and heat of the sun , then it ? yea mr fisher himself imputes pauls being so tardy and backward to the duty of dipping , as to need such a sharp exuscitation hereunto , as he conceits the words of ananias , and now why tarriest thou , &c. do import ; he imputes ( i say ) this supposed backwardness in paul to the said supposed duty , to a sensibleness in him of some tediousness in the service * . a little before he hath these words : i know no mans flesh forward to it , further then by faith it is over-powerd . so that by consent of both parties , baptism by dipping , upon such terms , and under such circumstances as our new baptists urge the necessity of it , is a burthen exceeding grievous , and next to that which is intolerable , to the flesh : yea neither party needs be tender , upon such terms to vote it a yoke more heavy then circumcision under the law , which yet peter plainly tells the jews , was such a yoke , which neither they nor their . fathers were able to bear ; yea and upon this account , calleth the putting of it upon the necks of the disciples , a tempting of god . now therefore why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples , which , &c * . concerning the other sacramental service of the lords supper , it is sufficiently known that it is in no degree burthensome , or troublesom to the flesh , but rather of a cherishing , nourishing , and welcom import to it . nor is it ( i suppose ) the sence of our dissenting brethren , but that gospel baptism was by christ calculated and intended for babes in christ , for beleevers of the first peep ( as it were ) out of the shell , and greatest weakness , in the faith ; as on the other hand , the sacramental sevice of the supper was in like manner prepared and ordained by him for beleevers of grown stature and strength . now then i cannot but greatly wonder , that our brethren should esteem it a matter of such high impiety in us , and deserving no less censure or punishment , then excommunication it self , to judg it contrary both to the wisdom and tenderness of bowels in christ towards his saints , to provide the strongest meat for his weakest babes , and milk for his strong men ; to put his new-born babes to bear the heat and burthen of the day of christianity , whilest his old souldiers , men of strength and courage , are feasting with bread and wine at his table . considering what a stream and torrent of scriptures there are that run a head against such a notion as this , we know not how to handle our judgments or consciences to make them of this opinion , that evangelical baptism consisteth in any thing so like the piercings of a sword to the flesh , or which requireth such an overpowring of faith to subject men unto it , as our brethren themselves represent their dipping to be , and to require . nor can we with all the might of our own understandings , nor with all the additional help of the light hitherto afforded us by our brethren , tell how to beleeve or conceive , that all the land of judea , and they of ierusalem , with all the region round about iordan , were all over-powered by any such high hand of faith , who yet came thick and threefold , troops upon troops , and companies after companies , to be baptized of john , and were baptized accordingly . consideration xiv . for those who are babes in christ and weak in the faith ; yea for those , who know but in part ( and higher then thus , neither doth their knowledg it self rise , who think they know more then all the world besides ) to mistake , where ( in a manner ) all the judicious , learned , and grave , all the zealous , faithful , and best conscienced christians , and servants of god throughout the world , fathers , martyrs , reformers , and others , for sixteen generations together , even from the days of the apostles , until now , have mistaken , and not been able to discover the truth , or mind of god , is ( doubtless ) the most venial and pardonable mistake , that can well be imagined ; yea although it should be supposed that the subject matter , wherein , or about which , this mistake hath been , be of very great weight and consequence . such as this , and no whit worse or more culpable then this , is the mistake ( if yet a mistake it be ) of those churches and saints , who judg it no ways necessary , nor agreeable to the mind of christ , for them to desire a baptismal dipping , having been regularly ( as they conceive ) and sufficiently baptized in their infancy . now the common and best-known principles of reason and equity , ( and of christianity most of all ) upon mistakes of the most-venial nature , and which are incident to the best , the most watchful and faithful of men , teach men to inflict the lightest punishment , whether by censure , or otherwise ( if any at all ) that well may be . if then to judg and condemn a church , or people of god , as a spurious and unclean congregation , with whom no man can joyn in church-communion , without polluting himself in the sight of god , be an high and heavy censure ( which i presume no man questions ) then must they , who inflict this censure only upon the account of the demerit of the aforesaid mistake , needs be extreamly irregular , unrighteous , and unreasonable in so doing . and yet they who in the open view of the world , inflict it by an actual , hasty , and ( as it were ) a frightful rending and tearing off themselves from such churches , inflict it upon the hardest and most unchristian terms that can be imagined . and give me leave here only to add this ; that i know no more pregnant a symptome of a strong inchantment , delusion , or distemper , then when a petty handful of men are rank of confidence and conceit , that all the world are out of their witts , but themselves ; and that they are as so many stars of the first magnitude , and all other men but as the snuffs of so many candles . consideration xv . that baptism , how duly soever administred , is no churchmaker , but at the highest , a church-adorner ( and this possibly in some cases only too ) is evident from hence ; that the lord christ , whilst he was yet unbaptized , was as much the head , and as legitimate an head , of the church , as after his baptism . and as christ obtained not the head-ship of the church , nor right unto it , by being baptized , so neither do beleevers obtain their right to membership in a church , by their being baptized . yea it is but conjectural and traditional divinity , to affirm or hold , that all the members of all the churches in the apostles days were baptized . certain i am that baptism cannot rationally pretend to so much interest to constitute , ●● legitimate , members of christian churches under the gospel , as circumcision might to constitute the members of the iewish church under the law . yet this church was altogether as true a church , and all abrahams children by isaak as true members of this church , when and whilest they had no practise of circumcision amongst them ( as viz. during their fourty years journeying through the wilderness ) as when it was in the most regular and standing use among them . yea ( doubtless ) abraham and his family were as much the church of god , before the ordinance it self of circumcision was delivered unto him , as afterwards . and why the iewish children before the eight day , should not be judged members of that church , as well as after , i understand not . therefore without all controversie baptism is no builder of churches , although , as some men now set it on work , it is a puller of them down . nor doth it at all savour of gospel dispensation , that god should build his spiritual temple upon foundations made of a carnal ceremony , or that he should deny that poor and mean priviledg ( comparatively ) of church-membership , unto that grace ( i mean , faith ) unto which he hath vouchsafed that high and heavenly prerogative , the making of men to becom the sons of god . besides , that which is no where mentioned as commending any man , either unto god , or men , more then , or so much as , many other duties or qualifications , cannot reasonably be judged more necessary to any mans regular admission into church-fellowship , then those other things . now baptism is no where represented in the scriptures as commending any man , either unto god , or men , nor as any considerable testimony of any mans faith , vast multitudes of people having been baptized by iohn , yea and by christ himself or his disciples , whereas there were very few true beleevers amongst them ( mat. . . mar. . . luk. , . compared with iohn . . . ioh. . , acts. . . ) whereas other qualifications , as faith , love , righteousness , holiness , humility , the new creature , the hearing of the word , the searching of the scriptures , ( with many others of like character ) are frequently insisted upon , as matters of worthy testimony unto those , in whom they were found , yea and some of them of signal acceptance with god . therefore certainly it is a most groundless and importune conceit , to estimate the truth of a church of christ by the baptism of the members ; or to deny unto such congregations or bodies of saints , the legitimacy of church-ship , upon a pretence and conceit of their not being baptized , which are in all things , which commend a church , either unto god , or men , the glory of churches , yea and ( in the apostles sence , cor. . . ) the glory of christ himself . consideration xvi . the main , if not the only , ground and reason why our newbaptizing and baptized brethren , reject the baptism , so esteemed and practised among us , is , because they suppose it to be a meer nullity , and to have nothing in it of the baptism appointed by christ . upon this their supposition they proceed with the utmost severity against us , they excommunicate us , and deliver us up to satan , that we may learn rightly to baptize . but if the lord christs rule be true , a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit ( mat. . . ) and again ; that every tree is known by his own fruit ( luk. . . ) then is our baptism no corrupt baptism , but the baptism commended by christ ; or however , far from being a nullity . for it is a true rule : nonentis , nulli sunt affectus , nulla opperatio : nullities , or non-entities , have neither affections , nor effects , or operations : produce nothing which is proper to be produced by a real and truly excistent cause . but that baptism amongst us , which our brethren very inconsiderately and invita veritate , vote to be a nullity , is as efficacious , as operative , in respect of all the main ends of baptism ( the baptism i mean intended by christ ) as theirs is , or can be ; yea in respect of some of these ends , if not all , it hath the preheminency . for . it doth as solemnly , with as much authority and power , with as express a signification to the understandings and apprehensions of the world about us , testifie and declare us the profesed disciples and followers of jesus christ , as that baptism practized by them can do . nay in this ( which is one of the most considerable ends of baptism ) it is of the two more efficacious then theirs . for their baptism is ( comparatively ) a kind of barbarian to the world : nor do the generality of men interpret or look upon it , as any thing more significative , or assertive , of their owning the name and faith of jesus christ ; then our baptism ; which was also theirs , untill they renounced it , by substituting another in the place of it . yea the sence of the world , and of the generality of persons , amongst whom they live , is so far from being either , that by their infant-baptism they stood insufficiently declared the professed disciples of christ , or that by their new baptism they make any materiall addition unto that their declaration , that it inclines rather to this , viz. that they betake themselves to a re-baptism , more to disobliege themselves from what their infant-baptism ingaged them unto , then to strengthen or make valid that ingagement ; which , at least as they apprehend , cannot receive any addition of strength or validitie by any further baptism , but they are jealous that it may be disinabled , or at least disadvantaged , by such an after-baptism . of which apprehension i wish they had not , and yet much more , that they may not in time have , too just a ground . but however , nothing can be more evident , then that that baptism is most serviceable and efficacious to testifie or demonstrate a person , man or woman , to be a professor of , and to own , the name and faith of jesus christ in the sight of the world , whose signification and import in this behalf is best known unto the world . if so , then is our baptism , as valid , as efficacious , in respect of this great end of baptism , as our brethrens new baptism can be ; and consequently , is far from being a nullity . . our baptism is altogether as operative , as bearing , as ingaging upon our judgments and consciences , to become the reall , loyall , and true disciples of jesus christ , as theirs can be upon theirs , or could be upon ours , should we come under it . for out of the sence and conscience we have that we have been baptized , and still own and stand by that our baptism , we expect no other but the severest judgment and condemnation , which belong to covenant-breakers with their god , from his hand , if we shall be found unfaithfull under this our baptismall ingagement . and certain i am , that our brethrens new-baptism can have no richer , no fuller , no more vigorous or potent an influence upon their judgements and conscience in this kind , then so . i wish that theirs may hold weight with ours in this ballance . if our baptism , whilst it was theirs also , had not the same weight of engagement upon their consciences , which it hath upon ours , have they reason to judge us for it , and not rather themselves ? therefore in respect of this great end also of baptism , ours is no whit more a nullitie , then theirs . . ( and lastly ) nor can we , or they ( reasonably , and upon ground ) judge that our baptism ( as we call baptism ) is less edifying , strengthening , comforting , to the inner man , then theirs . our souls , through the grace and goodness of our good god unto us , have prospered as much under that baptism which we own , and by means of it ( as far as we are able to compute ) as we can , upon consultation had with al oracles that are like to inform us in the point , expect they would , or should have done , under that baptism , whose threshold our brethren place so neer the threshold of christ himself . i beleeve there are thousands yet abiding under our baptism , who would not willingly exchange spirituall estates with the best of those , who to better their estates in this kind , have sought security under the wing and shelter of a new baptism : yea i make very little question , but that if our brethren of this new baptism ( at least many of them ) would deal ingeniously and freely ( and what is this but christianly ? ) with us in the point , they would acknowledge and confess , that they carried far the greater part of that spirituall treasure , of which they are at present possest , from under that baptism which they forsook , unto that which they have taken in exchange for it . yea i heartily wish for the sake of some of them , whom i know , that their new baptism doth not help to diminish their old grace . therefore in respect of this great end also and benefit of baptism , the building up of the inner man in grace and peace , our baptism is no whit behind theirs ; but , if experience will be allowed to umpire , much before it . i know no other end of baptism but what is easily reduceable to one of these three . set them then to judg ( as the apostle speaketh in another case ) who are least esteemed in the church , whether that baptism be like to be a nullity , which acts and performs , and this with authority and power , all the ends , services , purposes and intents of baptism ; yea and in most of them , if not in all , quits it self at a more worthy rate of efficacy and success , then that which pretends to the honour of being the sole reality and truth . consideration xvii . it is no where to be found in scripture , that any church of christ , or imbodied society of beleevers , was commanded by god , or christ , or his apostles , to be dipped ; nor yet threatened , or reproved by any of them , for the non-practise of dipping . if this be denyed , let the scriptures , one , or more be produced ( for as yet none have been ) for the justification of such a denyal . is it not then presumption in the highest , and an assuming of an anti christian power , to impose laws upon christian societies , which the lord christ never imposed ; yea and to censure and scandalize them with the odious and reproachful terms of anti-christian , and unclean , only for the transgressions of their own laws ? nor will it serve the turn , to pretend , that it is to be found in scripture , that particular members of churches or imbodied societies of saints , are commanded to be dipped , and by consequence , that churches , or whole churches , ought to be so likewise . for ( besides that this is contrary to the avouched principles of those , who are like thus to pretend , who affirm , that the scripture no where reports , or makes , any person a member of a church , but only such who were dipped , before they entred that relation , and consequently could have no such command imposed on them , being now members ) it followeth not , that because some particular members of a body were required to be dipped , therefore the whole body was commanded to be dipped likewise ; especially not upon such terms , that unless it would be thus wholy , universally , and in all its members dipt , it should be unclean in the sight of god and men , and all communion with it sinful . therefore they who impose such a law as this upon christian churches , or societies , and make them heynous transgressors for the breach of it , punishing and censuring them accordingly , are usurpers of the high prerogative of god , and of christ , claiming and exercising a lordship over the faith and consciences of men . consideration xviii . yea i beleeve it is more then the greatest oracle of baptismal dipping under heaven , will ever be able to prove to the satisfaction of a conscience christianly considerate , that there is any precept or command of christ in the scriptures , whereby it is made sinful for any person whatsoever , not only not to be diped , but to be not so much as baptized in one form , or other . for first , certain it is , that it is no sin unto any person whatsoever to be un-dipt , whilest there is no person to be found sufficiently authorized by christ to administer dipping unto him . and however the camel be swallowed whole , either by the largness of the consciences , or by the scantness of the understandings , of our metropolitan dippers , yet is it not so easie for them to justifie the authentiqueness or validity of that commission , by which they act ( without fear or trembling ) the parts of dippers . but of this elswhere . secondly , that precept of christ , mat. . . which ( as far as i understand ) they make their cheif treasure to support them in their wars against their brethren , doth at no hand make those transgressors , who are not dip-wise baptized , no nor yet those who are not baptized , either so , or otherwise . for first , here is no precept , charge , or command given unto any person , one or more , but unto the apostles only . go ye therefore [ i. e. ye apostles ] and teach all nations , baptizing them , &c. now as a law imposed upon a magistrate for the discharge of his office , doth not make a subject guilty by his non-performance of it , nay he [ the subject ] should be more guilty , in case he should observe it : so neither doth a charge layd by christ upon his apostles in reference to their special office & ministry , oblige any other sort of men to the observation of it * secondly , in these words , baptizing them , it cannot reasonably be conceived that they were injoyned to baptize any person , or persons . against their wills , or whether they would , or no . no , nor is it a matter of easie resolution , what is the antecedent or substantive to this relative pronoun , them ; or whom , or what persons they are , whom our saviour here authorizeth his apostles to baptize . therefore , thirdly , here being no command layd upon any person to be baptized , or to desire baptism of the apostles , it clearly follows , that the apostles are here injoyned only to baptize such persons , who shall freely and voluntarily require the same at their hand . nor , fourthly , can it be proved from these words , teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever i have commanded them , that the apostles did teach saints , beleevers , or others , to require baptism of them , unless it were first proved , that this was one particular of those things , which christ commanded his apostles to teach the nations to observe . but i beleeve there is no day in the year auspicious for our new baptists to undertake the proof of this . nor , fifthly , do we find , that the apostles in the course of their ministry , did ever teach either church or person , to demand , or seek baptism at their hand ; much less threaten them , or charge them with disobedience unto christ for not seeking it . sixthly , in case it should be granted , that the apostles by the tenor and vertue of their commission , might , and did , teach beleevers to observe the law of requiring baptism at their hands , yet it followeth not from hence , that by vertue of this commission they had power also given them to make it a standing law for all pastors and teachers to the worlds end , who were to succeed them in the preaching the gospel , to impose the observation of the same law upon all beleevers ; considering . that water-baptism , as appears partly by the express intentions of god about it in the first setting it on foot in the world , ioh. . . partly also , in that there is never mention made of any administration of baptism in any place , but only upon the first coming or preaching of the gospel therein , although there were never so many converted to the faith in the same place afterwards ( i mean , upon a second publication of the gospel in this place ) acts. . . compared with acts. . , & . , & . , and . . with vers. . by these two considerations ( i say ) it fully appears that water-baptism was never intended by god , but either only or chiefly , for an introductory or planting ordinance i. e. to attend the gospel for a time at its first coming unto , and reception by a people , citty , or nation , until it should get some considerable rooting , and interest amongst them , not for a staple or standing ordinance in one and the same place ( whereof good reason might be given , but that we are now upon a pin of brevity . ) secondly , that wheresoever , either the work and office of pastors and teachers , or their qualifications are described , or the intentions of god in , and about the erections of them in the church declared , there is not the least mention made either of any charge given them to baptize , nor of any qualifications requisite in those , who should baptize , nor of any intent of god , or of christ , that they should baptize . see and compare tim. . , , , &c. tim. . , . tit. . , . ephes. . , , , . thirdly , when the apostle paul directeth timothy to commit unto faithful men , the things which he had heard of him among many witnesses , the end why he thus directeth him , is signified in these words , who be able to teach others also ( tim. . . ) plainly intimating , that what is deriveable from the apostles unto standing pastors and teachers , respects cheifly , if not only , their abilities to teach , or preach the gospel . seventhly , concerning these words , and lo i am with you to the end of the world ; neither do these necessarily prove , that a ministeriall or actually baptizing should continue to the end of the world , at least not in all parts or places in the world , where the ministery of the gospel should be continued . for . jerom conceiveth that the apostles themselves are here said to live , and so to teach and baptize , to the end of the world , viz. in and by , their writings and other labours in the ministry : and that the presence of christ with them to the end of the world here promised , importeth , his directing , strengthening , and incouraging presence , whilest they continued in the body ; and his assisting presence with them in their writings and other labours faithfully performed in the work of the gospel , whereby these should prosper and bring forth fruit to the end of the world . this is no hard or far fetcht interpretation . a yet . be it granted , that christ here promiseth his presence , not unto the apostles alone , but to all their successors in teaching and baptizing , ( though a substantial proof of this requires more , i fear , then all the abilities of our brethren of the dip are able to perform ) yet neither will it follow from hence , that they who should succeed them in both , should baptize upon any other terms then the apostles themselves did , yea or are recorded in the scriptures to have done . now ( as we lately observ'd ) it is no where reported of them , or any of them , that they ever baptized in any place , but onely at , and upon , their first bringing of the name of christ , and the gospel thereunto , in case it found any competent entertainment and settlement there . but , eightly , ( and lastly ) grant we all that can either reasonably or unreasonably be demanded from the words in hand , on the behalf of those , who were , and are , to succeed the apostles in the work of the gospel , viz. ministers and teachers , and that christ promiseth his presence with them , as well in baptizing , as in teaching ; yet what presence of his is here promised to private christians , in their administrations of baptisme ? surely when they baptize , christ is not with them in the work ; how much less when persons of this character shall put forth their hand to touch the ark of baptism , who are not so much as baptized themselves ? and yet a baptism administred upon such polluted terms as these , is the mother and foundress of all those baptizmall administrations , for which our brethren so importunately magnifie themselves against us . to plead , that a person unbaptized , may administer baptism in a case of necessity , is a sufficient plea indeed thus understood ; viz. . when god himself adjudgeth and determines the case of necessity ; and . authorizeth from heaven any person , one or more , for the work , as he did john baptist . otherwise vzzah had as good , or better reason to judge that a case of necessity , in which he put forth his hand to stay the ark , then our first unhallowed and undipt dipper in this nation , had to call that a case of necessity , wherein , to the sad disturbance of the affairs of the gospel , yea and of the civil peace also , he set up the dipping trade . we do not intend that any thing hitherto argued in the consideration in hand , should be taken as meant for a positive or demonstrative proof , that the ordinance of baptism is now extinct , or not administrable without sin in the world ; but rather as a demonstration partly of the many labyrinths and difficulties , which they ought to overcom and clear , who are so confidently positive and assertive of the contrary ; partly of the most unreasonable and importune practise of those , who pronounce all men unworthy of christian communion , who are not as positive and assertive in matters of so doubtful disputation , as themselves . consideration xix . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. variances , emulations , animosities , contentions , divisions [ or seditions ] sects * , are by the holy ghost himself adjudged works of a the flesh , and such which are manifest ; yea and are ranged in the middle between , adultery , fornication , uncleanness , wantonness , idolatry , witchcraft , hatred , on the one hand , and , envyings murthers , drunkenness , revellings , and such like , on the other hand . concerning all which , joyntly and severally the apostle denounceth this heavy sentence : of which i tell you before , as i have also told you in times past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god . gal. , , . . [ meaning , without repentance ] now how can men and women in any other way , or upon any other account , more manifestly , or more directly incur the guilt of the said sins of variances , emulations , animosities , seditions , sects , ( at least of some , if not of the most of them , and consequently the dreadfull doom of being excluded from the kingdom of god ) then by labouring in the very fire to trouble , disturb , rend , tear , dismember , break into sects and factions , such churches or bodies of saints , who until now were walking holily , and humbly with their god in unity , love , and peace , edyfiing one another in their most holy faith , with all good conscience observing all ordinances of god made known unto them for such , and ready and willing further to abserve all other , that should in like manner be made known unto them ? or can any pretence or plea whatsoever render the children of such high misdemeanors excusable before the judgment seat of christ ? i draw out my whole heart and soul in requests unto my god , that he will graciously awaken the consciences of such persons , who whilst they pull down , what christ hath built up , and scatter , what he hath gathered together , think they do him service . certainly never were the sins of variance , emulation , wrath , strife , church-seaition , schism , commited in the world by men , nor can it be imagined how they should be commited , if they who quarrel , trouble , rend and tear off themselves , labour in the very fire to rend and tear off others , from christian churches and congregations , only for dissenting from them in their private conceits about the ceremony of baptism , be not guilty of them . the contentions , rents and schisms in the catholique church , so deeply complained of , bewailed , and opposed by the fathers of old , were , according to a true estimate , but as shadows of these sins , and of light demerit , in comparison . consideration xx . when some of the brethren of the church at ierusalem were unsatisfied about that which peter did , in going to the gentiles at cornelius his house in cesarea , and having communion with them , peter , in order to their satisfaction , and his own justification in holding communion with them , doth not insist upon , nor so much as mention , or hint , their being baptized , but only the gift of the holy ghost given unto them by god in testimony of their faith . for as much then ( saith he ) as god gave them the like gift as he did unto us , who beleeved on the lord jesus christ , who , or what , was i that i could withstand god ? acts . . where ( by the way ) it is observable , that peter judged that a withstanding of god which our brethren call a serving , or an obeying of god ; i mean , a refusing of communion with those , concerning whose faith in jesus christ he had received satisfaction . upon the said account given by peter , it follows ( vers. . ) when they heard these things , they held their peace and glorified god , saying , then hath god also to the gentiles granted repentance unto life . from whence it is evident , that neither did peter himself , nor yet the brethren of this church at ierusalem , look upon baptism , as essential to christian communion , or as absolutely necessary to be found in those , with whom this communion may lawfully be held . for if so , why did not peter rather insist upon their baptism , then the testimony of their beleeving , for his vindication in holding communion with them ? yea and why did not those who contended with him about his said act of communion , make some such objection as this against his plea ( instead of being satisfied with it ) why dost thou tell us of the falling of the holy ghost upon these gentiles , or of their beleeving ? what is this to justifie thee in going in unto them ? tell us were they baptized , or no ? certainly both peters silence of baptism in his plea , and their silence in not inquiring after it for their satisfaction , divisim and conjunctim prove , that baptism in these days was looked upon as no foundation essentially requisite to build church communion upon . for that that communion with the gentiles , about which peter was now questioned at ierusalem , was constructively at least such a communion , is evident ; . because peter for his justification therein , pleads the falling of the holy ghost upon them as a testimony from god of their beleeving in christ , which is no proper or necessary plea for the justification of the lawfulness of any other communion . . that communion which consisted in any kind of eating with men , was by the jews , who were the men that now contended with peter about his communion with the gentiles , interpreted as an acknowledging and owning of them in relation unto god , and as persons in covenant with him . in which respect they judged it unlawful for a jew to sit at table , and eat meat with an unproselyted gentile , as appears from luk. . . and sundry other places . yea our saviour himself looked upon a regular forbearance of communion in this case , as a matter of religion , and of like nature with the offering of sacrifice , mat. . . compared with ver. . . to pretend that that communion , which peter had with these gentiles , was after , not before , their baptizing , is little to the purpose . for that their baptizing was meerly accidental and irrelative to his communion with them , appears clearly . because he builds his justification in it upon quite another foundation ( as we have heard ) viz. the gift of the holy ghost unto them in testimony of their beleeving ( which notwithstanding our brethren judg insufficient to justifie them in a like communion , unless it be eeked out with a baptizing . ) . because , they who demanded , and expected ( if were to be had ) a plenary satisfaction of that act of peter in communicating with them , were fully satisfied with the account mentioned , making no question for conscience sake about their baptizing . in like manner this very church at ierusalem , a while before , had admitted paul into their communion , only upon barnabas his declaring unto them that he had seen the lord in the way , and that he had spoken to him , and how he had preached boldly at damascus in the name of jesus , ( acts. . . ) without having heard the least inkling of his baptizing . yea it may be a question whether barnabas himself knew that he had been baptized : but however if he did know it , it is scarce a question , but that being now to prepare him a way into communion with this church , he would have represented his baptism , if he had judged the knowledg hereof necessary for this church , before they could lawfully receive him into their communion . yea a little before this , ananias at damascus had given him the right hand of christian fellowship in calling him , brother , before he was baptized . therefore our brethrens conceit of such an absolute necessity of baptism in order to church-fellowship , as they dream of , is but an apocryphal dream , without footing or foundation in the scriptures . how much more is the emphasis of this their conceit apocryphal , which beareth , not that baptism simply , but baptism according to their model of circumstances in every circumstantial punctillo administred , is of this soveraign and sacred necessity to qualifie and capacitate for church-communion ? do they affect to be either more wise or more holy then god ? consideration xxi . when christ ascended up on high , it is said that he led captivity captive , and gave gifts unto men ; some , apostles ; and some , prophets : and some evangelists : and some pastors , and teachers , for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministery , and for the edifying of the body of christ , &c. ephes. . , , . from hence it appeareth by as cleer a light as any the sun shineth at noon day ▪ that christs gift of pastors , and teachers , was intended by him , not with limitation to saints baptized , or for the perfecting of them , but to saints simply and in general , whether baptized , or unbaptized , or ( which is the same ) to all saints without exception of any , in as much as the body of christ consists of all these , according to that thes. . . when he shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired in all them that beleeve . now if pastors and teachers were given by christ that all saints , one or other , baptized or unbaptized , should be perfected by them , and the whole body of christ edifyed , then certainly they have all right to church-fellowship , in as much as pastors and teachers have their callings only by , and residence in churches . neither are they in any capacity , or probable way of perfecting them , but only when , and whilst , they are incorporated with them in their churches ( respectively . ) if men will not allow the priviledg of church-membership unto the saints deemed by them unbaptized , do they not herein rise up against the councel and gracious intendments of jesus christ towards them for their perfecting ? fighting against christ is a sin most dreadsully terrible , whe●e forgiveness cannot be pleaded in prayer for the siners upon this account , for they know not what they do . but i trust , ignorance is the mother of that sad devotion of our brethren , whereby they reject , yea oppose , the councel of christ concerning his saints . consideration xxii . besides the many reasons and arguments in our way ( many of them of great pregnancy and strength , as they seem in our eye ) which seperate between our judgments , and the necessity , yea or expediency , of a baptismal dipping ( which reasons may be published in due time ) we have some discou●agements and disswasiv●s upon us otherwise from that way . first , we understand by books and writings of such authority and credit , that we have no ground at all ●o question their truth , that that generat●on of men , whose judgments have gone wondering after dipping , and rebaptizing , have from the very first original and spring of them since the late reformation , been very troublesome and turbulent in all places where they have encreased to any numbers considerable ; and wiser men then i are not a little jealous over the peace of this nation , lest it should suffer , as other places formerly have done , from the tumultuous and domine●ring spirit of this sort of men so numerously prevailing as they do . there is a strong tide of report both from ireland and scotland , that as far as the interest and power , so far the insolency also and importune haughtiness of that generation we speak of , extendeth in both these nations , and that all persons , of what integrity or worth soever otherwise , who are not enlightened with their darkness about their dipping , are troden under foot like unsavory salt , and judged unmeet for any place of trust or power with them , being allowed only the preferements of drawing water , and hewing wood . one of this faction or party in england ( and he no small begger neither ) speaking of a person , who , though not of his judgment about the necessity of dipping , yet otherwise a man ( to my knowledg ) that had very well deserved of that way in several respects , as well publique , as private , yet speaking ( i say ) of this person , he said in the prefence of several persons of quality , that he deserved to be hanged ; an aphorism consonant to the later saying of a preacher of that way about the city , who in discourse with a person ( walking in communion with me ) about his judgment , and being ( as it seems ) worsted in the skirmish , at last recovered all the ground he had lost with this or the like , epiphonema ; that she might find her church at tyburn , and the gallows . these words i regard but as muck , notwithstanding it may concern others to look after the fire . but surely these men , when they come into their kingdom of authority and power , will execute judgment and justice without partiality . if so , then , he that deserveth to be hanged , must expect no better quarter then that of the halter : and if justice be administred without partiality , all that are in the same condemnation of anti-dipping with him , may bear him company in the same expection . let no man think that because i write these things , i do not walk charitably towards the persons of the men , of whom i speak , or that i bear in my spirit the least touch or tincture of any sinister affection against the worst of them . my principles ( i confess ) are too lofty and stiff to honour any mans unworthiness whatsoever , so far , as for the sake thereof to become his enemy . jesus christ with the hand of his grace hath taken my gall out of my bowels , and divided it between sin and satan . my conscience beareth me witness in the holy ghost , that as i have been cordially and christianly respectful and friendly unto these men , as far as i have had opportunity to serve them , so am i still ready to bow down and lick the dust at the feet even of the meanest of them , and of him amongst them , who ever he be , that is my greatest enemy , for their spiritual , yea or temporal accommodation . nor do i deny , or doubt , but that as amongst the pharisees , though a generation of vipers a , there were some who beleeved in christ b ; so among those , who have been baptized in their own water , some there are baptized into the spirit of christ , and upright in the sight of god . but the israelites being mingled amongst the heathen , in time learned their works c and the nightingale ( some say ) by conversing among sparrows , will forget her native notes , and learn to chirp . moreover , those things were not in hazael's heart , whilest he was yet a subject , which were afterwards ingendered there , when he came to be king over syria d . secondly , there is scarce any of those worthy instruments , luther , calvin , beza , bucer , peter martyr , musculus , bullinger , with others of like name and worth ( almost ) without number , whose piety , zeal and faithfulness in conjunction with their singular gifts , and abilities of learning , god was pleased to honour and use in the glorious work of the reformation , and in the deseace and propagation of the reformed religion unto this day , but in their writings , commentaries upon the scriptures , and others , very frequently and upon all occasion take up most sad complaints against this generation of men , as enemies to the progress of the gospel , and by their unchristian and unworthy carriages , causing the good word of god and the reformed religion to be evil spoken of , and reproached by the adversaries thereof in the world . thirdly , we understand by the records of former times , and our own experience time after time informeth us in part , that many of the best , and most considerate persons , who have been for some time engaged in that way , after full tryal of it , have forsaken it , as not finding god , or christ , in it . fourthly , we understand by frequent and very credible informations , & some of us are able to testifie as much upon our own knowledg and experience , that in some of thier religious assemblies and conventions there is no considerable presence of god with them ; that there is little taught amongst them with any evidence or demonstration of the spirit , with any authority and power ; that the scriptures are very defectively and lamely opened and applyed , ever and anon wrested to the countenancing and magnifying of their own private conceit and notion about baptism ; and that the greatest part of the time , during these meetings , is spent in fruitless altercations , and vain janglings . nor know we any ground to beleeve that it is much better in those other congregations of these men , which we know not , then it is in those which we know . fifthly , another thing of little less discouragement unto us then the former , is , that there have been , and still are extant , three or four several editions , or man-devised modes , of dipping , every latter pretending to correct the insufficiency , irregularity , or inconvenience , of the former . in regard whereof , some ( we understand ) instead of being once baptized , have been dipped three or four times over , thus committing that sin in baptism , which christ prohibits in prayer , the sin , i mean , of vain repetitions . so that in case our consciences did lead us to a baptismal dipping , yet should we be at a loss concerning the particular mode or form , which is agreeable to the mind of christ , there being so many competitors for this honour . and for the mode of the latest and newest invention , and which ( as we understand ) is of greatest esteem , it is , as far as we are able to conceive by the representation of it made unto some of us , so contrived , and so to be managed , that the baptist , who dippeth according to it , had need be a man of stout limbs , and of a very able and active body : otherwise the person to be baptized , especially if in any degree corpulent or unwieldy , runs a great hazard of meeting with christs latter baptism * instead of his former . and if this manner of baptizing were in use in the apostles days , it is no great marvel that paul , being a man little and low of stature ( as history reports him , and himself overtures , cor , , , . ) cared so little and seldom to adventure upon the work . and yet should we hesitate in our consciences much more , where to find a competent person amongst them authorized by god to administer such a kind of baptism unto us . for we are not yet baptized into the belief of either of these doctrines ; either , . that a person unbaptized , may , without a special call or warrant from god , like unto that of john baptist , luke . ● . undertake the administration ; or , . that that was a case of necessity , wherein either nicholas stork ( with his three comrades ) in germany about the year , or whoever he was that first , himself being in his own judgment and conscience un-baptized , presumed to baptize others after that exotique mode in this nation . nor are we convinced or clear in our judgments , that any of those , who have been dipped amongst us , have been rightly baptized , if it be supposed that true baptism consists in a total immersion , or submersion , by him that baptizeth ; because the baptized themselves are wont to submerge the greater part of their bodies , before the baptist comes at them ; and so are rather se-baptized , then baptized according to what the scripture seems to speak concerning baptism . besides , we do not read in the scriptures of any baptismal boots , or baptismal breeches , or of shifting garments to avoyd the danger of being baptized , or of encircling women with women after their coming from the water to salve their modesty , with some other devices now , or of late in frequent use amongst our new baptists in the way of their practise . all these things narrowly considered , minister a ground of vehement suspition unto us , left the whole story of baptismal diping should prove apocryphal . sixthly , another thing much discouraging and disswading unto us from the way mentioned , is , that they who have passed over the bridg of anabaptism , can find ( as it seems ) no firm ground to stand on on the other side , but are ever and anon shifting their judgments and their practises , running out into strange and uncouth opinious , heaping up observation upon observation : yea their own churches and congregations , notwithstanding their high purification by baptism , are sometimes unclean to them ; in so much that they divide , and subdivide , yea and are ready to divide again their divisions . seventhly , whereas antichrist himself is not more antichristian , then in claiming and exercising such a dominion over the faith of his proselytes and disciples , by vertue whereof he commandeth them to depend only upon ministers and teachers of his own faith and wicked perswasion in matters of religion , severely prohibiting unto them the hearing of protestant preachers ; we understand that the same high-imposing spirit domineers more generally in the churches and congregations which have been dipt ; and that they also solemnly conjure all their proselytes and converts not to hear jesus christ himself speaking by any other mouth , then theirs ; thus bearing them in hand , as if a voyce from heaven like unto that , which was heard by the people at christs baptism concerning him , had come unto them also in reference to themselves and their teachers , in this or the like tenor of words : we are the only true churches and ministers of christ : hear vs . yea there was of late a very great schism made in one of these churches , and the greater part aposynagoguized by the lesser , because of the high misdemeanor of some of the members in hearing the words of eternal life from the mouths of such ministers , who follow not them in their way . such principles and practises as these we judg to be most notoriously and emphatically anti-christian , and such wherein ( as was said in a like case ) the very horns and hoofs of the beast may be felt and handled . yea we cannot but judg them to be of most pernicious consequence to the precious souls of men , as depriving them of the best means and opportunities which god most graciously affordeth unto them for their recovery out of all such snares , wherein at any time their foot may be taken . this is another grand discouragement unto us from that way . eighthly , we observe , that ( more generally ) when men or women have suffered themselves to be intangled with a conceit of that way ; especially when they have bowed down their judgments and consciences unto it , they are presently found in that sad condition and distemper , wherein the apostle perc●ived the galatians , upon their subjection to the yoke of circumcision , when he demanded of them , who hath bewitched you a ? for as these were so strangely besotted and dissensed with their notion of circumcision and legal observations , that the apostle himself feared b that he should not be able to deliver them , no not by the clearest arguments and demonstrations of the vanity and danger of their new notion , and practise : so are the reasons , judgments and understandings of the persons we speak of , so stupified , distraught and confounded with the admiration of their water-work , and their airy conceits about it , that all reason opposing it , is a barbarian unto them ; common sence is a mystery inaccessible to their understandings , the light of the noon-day offering to discover any nakedness in their way , is as dark as the darkness of mid-night it self : men of sound and serious intellectuals are as men that speak unto them in a strange tongue , if they speak any thing against their way . they know not valleys from hills , nor hills from valleys , rivers from trees , nor trees from rivers , halfs from wholes , nor wholes from halfs , precepts from promises , nor promises from precepts , ceremony from substance , nor substance from ceremony ; every distinction that attempts to shew them the error of their way , ipso facto becomes a chaos and confusion . on the other hand , for the maintenance and defence of their way , the shadows of mountains seem valiant and armed men ; stubble and rotten wood , are turned into weapons of steel and iron before them ; letter becomes spirit , face becomes heart , promise becomes precept , ceremony becomes substance , apostles become ordinary men and women , disputeables become demonstrations , and peradventures become all yeas and amens . in respect of these marvellous and sad distempers in their fancies and understandings , to reason with them about their way , or to endeavor their conviction , seldom turns to any better account then a beating of the ayr , or then diogenes his begging applications to the statues of men . but ninethly ( and lastly ) the first born of all discouragements unto us in this kind , is , that which our eyes dayly see , and our ears oft hear , and wherewith our hearts are continually made sad within us , viz. that the generality or far greater part of those , who turn aside into this way , do , some more suddenly , others by degrees , impair and decline in their graces , lose that sweetness , meekness , love , and christian humility of spirit , wherewith they were formerly adorned , as if they were baptized in marah a , or in the waters of the red sea . never did we know any that by being dipped added thereby so much as an hairs bredth to his spiritual stature , or that became in any degree either more meek , or more humble , or more patient , or more merciful , or more mortifyed , self-denying , or the like ; but very many have we known and heard of , who upon such an engagement have made shipwrack of much spiritual treasure , wherewith god had blessed them under their first baptism . many have we known , who went into the water , lambs , and came out of it wolves and tygers : many who went in , doves , and came out , serpents ; as if they had met with the spirit that rules in the ayr under the water , in stead of the sweet spirit of christ . yea we have known some , who soon after their dipping have perpetrated and done things so unworthy and unsutable to their former genius , which if any man had challenged them before their dipping , that they would do after , we have reason to judg they would have replied to the challenge , as hazael did to elisha in somewhat a like case ; but what is thy servant a dog that he should do this great thing ? king. . . so many sad spectacles and stories , wherewith our eyes and ears are fill'd from time to time , especially not being ballanced or counterpoysed with any thing desireable , or of moment , put us into some fears , lest as god , in his just , though secret judgment , gives sathan a permission to haunt some houses , and to misuse and terrifie those that shall lodg in them ; so he should , for causes best known to himself ( though somewhat might with good probability be conjectured in this kind ) have granted unto this enemy of mankind somewhat a like power , over the opinion and practise of rebaptizing , and to tempt those , who suffer themselves to be intangled with them , more dangerously and prevailingly , then those , who in simplicity of heart walk before him in the contrary way . we are not definitive in this ; but only crave leave ( without offence ) to make known our fears . and however , god having multiplied grace , mercy and peace unto us in that way of his worship , wherein at present we walk , we judge it no christian prudence to tempt him in another . but whether our brethren have any just cause to cast us out of their communion , for not forsaking a way of experienced peace and safety , to walk in a way of so much danger , as that they seek to conjure us into , we leave to their own consciences , and to all considering men , to judg and determine . consideration xxiii . the consideration that sealeth unto me the conclu●ency and force of all the former , against the practise of church-rending upon the p●etence of undipt members , is , the invalidity of any thing that hath been yet brought to light ( and i presume of all that ever will , or can be ) in justification of it . . it is not true , ( is hath been sufficiently proved ) that circumcision was constitutive of the jewish church , or gave being of membership to all the leg●●imate members of it . or if this could be made good , yet would it not follow from hence , that therefore baptism must needs constitute the christian church . for what though it be supposed that baptism succeedeth in the place of circumcision ( a supposition , which though true and demonstrable enough , yet neither lives , nor dyes , to me ) yet it followeth not , that it should succeed it in all its circumstantial ends and relations . solomon succeeded david in his kingdom , yet he did not succeed him in his wives or concubines , or any his relations of affinity . . nor do the contents of act. . . prove , so much as in f●ce , or appearance , that baptism is of the essence of a church-member . for , . those who are said to have been baptized ( in the former part of the verse ) are not said ( in the latter ) to have been added to the church , but simply , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , they were added , or added to . if the question be , to what , or to whom they were added , if not to the church ; the holy ghost himself may inform you , expressing himself more plainly in a like case , act. . . and much people was added to the lord . and , . it is said , act. , . and the lord added unto the church , who ? such as were baptized ? no : but , such as should be saved , or , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. those who are , or were , saved , or delivered , viz. from the general impiety of the jewish nation , which was , not by being baptized , but by beleeving . . ( and lastly for this ) in case their baptizing having been mentioned in the former part of the verse , it should been said ( in the latter ) that they were added unto the church , yet {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} would not have proved {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; the recording of their addition to the church after their being baptized , will not prove this addition to have been made by vertue , or by means of their baptizing . in the former part of the verse , ioh. . . christ telleth the jews that their fathers did eat manna in the wilderness : he subjoyneth in the latter , and are dead . will any man reason from hence ; because this eating manna is reported in the former part of the verse , and their death , or being dead , in the latter ; therefore their death was caused by their eating of manna . . nor doth that of the apostle , cor. . . make any whit more ( if not rather less ) for church-constitution by baptism , then the former . for , . when the apostle saith , by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , it is not necessary we should understand him to speak of water-baptisw ; because , . here is another element expresly named , wherein this baptism might be administred , viz. the spirit , whereas there is no mention of water at all . . the phrase of being baptized with the spirit , or with the holy ghost ( as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , might have been translated here , as it is in all other places of like construction , as viz. mat. . . mar. . . luk. . . ioh. , . acts . , acts , . ) is most usual and frequent in the scriptures ( as the several texts now cited sufficiently declare ; ) whereas , to be with , or through , the spirit , baptized with water , is an uncouth and hard expression , no where found in the scriptures , nor carrying any regular sence in it . . if the unity or oneness of the body here spoken of , did , or doth depend upon their baptizing with water , and was caused by this , it had been impertinent for the apostle to mention the unity of the spirit , for we by one spirit are all , &c. he should rather have insisted upon the oneness , or same-ness of water baptism ( as he doth , ephes. . . ) . the unity or oneness of the body , of which the apostle speaks , is not so much , or so proper , an effect of water-baptism , no nor of the oneness of this baptism ( if it be any effect of either at all ) is of the spirit , by which this body is inspired , animated , acted , and moved , and the members of it knit together , and kept from dissolution . . whether all the members of the body were baptized with water , or no , is uncertain . the apostle expresly professeth that he baptized [ viz. with water ] very few of them ; and who else should baptize them all , no where appears ; whereas that they were all with , or by , the spirit baptized into the same body [ i. e. perswaded and over-ruled in their judgments and consciences to imbody themselves in a profession of the faith of jesus christ , and of the gospel ] is unquestionable . , the spirit is no where said to baptize men with water by or through the spirit . . though there be no express mention in the vers either of god , or of christ , who elsewhere ( the one , or the other ) are said to baptize with the spirit , those who are thus baptived , yet verse . . god is named , and this under the consideration of his unity , or sameness , as working all in all : but it is the same god that worketh all in all . and in the next verse it is said ; but the manifestation of the spirit is given unto every man , &c. [ meaning , by god , mentioned in the verse preceding . ] besides , there is nothing more familiat in the scriptures , then to express such actions , which are proper unto god , or christ , indefinitely , and without the mention of either . all power is given unto me [ saith christ , meaning by god his father ] in heaven and in earth , matth. . . instances of this construction , see matth. . . and . . philip . . . ( besides many others . ) yea actions appropriate , whether to angels , or men , are sometimes thus expressed . . the resemblance which the apostle borrowed ( in the verse next preceding that in hand ) from the natural body , sheweth that the unity or oneness of that church body of which he here speaketh , is not such an oneness which accrueth unto it by water-baptism , or any external rite or ceremony , but by the oneness and sameness of that spirit , by which it is ( as it were ) inform'd inwardly , and supported in life , and spiritual being . for as the body ( saith he ) is one , and hath many members , and all the members of that one body , being many , are one body : so is christ ; intimating , that as the natural body , notwithstanding the plurality and diversity of its members , yet is , is made , or becometh , one intire body , not by any external or accidental thing befalling , or done unto , every of these members respectively , but by that spirit of life which diffuseth it self into all and every of these members proportionably , and so by means of the oneness or sameness of it , causeth a joynt coalition and natural consent in all these members to constitute and make one and the same entire body ; so is the mystical or spiritual body of christ made , and doth become , one and the same body in its kind , notwithstanding the great number and difference of the persons , who are the members of it , by means of that spirit , and his unity and sameness , which communicates himself inwardly unto them all , raising and begetting in them an holy consent to love and serve , and accommodate one another , much after the same manner , as the natural members in that other body do . . nor is it any ways probable , that in that clause , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , translated , and have been made to drink into one spirit , the apostle speaketh of the sacramental drinking in the supper ; . because drinking , or the sup , in this sacrament , is never found mentioned apart , or without mention of the bread in the same contexture of scripture with it . . to say that they , who have before this their drinking , received the same spirit , are made to drink [ at the lords table ] for , into , or unto , the same spirit , is very improper , and not without very much ado , so much as truth . . neither are beleevers anywhere said , to be made to drink , or to have drink given them , at the lords table , in order to their obtaining the same spirit , . learned expositors give notice of several different readings of this clause , found in manuscripts , and other copies . in a manuscript ( saith grotius upon the place ) this clause is thus read : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. and we all are one body . oecumenius ( it seems ) did read it thus : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. and we all drank , or were caused to drink , one potion , or one drinking , for , or unto , one spirit . some of the fathers read the clause in their language , et omnes unum spiritum potavimus , i. e. and we all have drank one spirit ; with which the syriac also accordeth . . the meaning of the clause ( if the reading we have be judged authentique ) construed with the former , seems to be this : we have by the same spirit , not only , or simply , been baptized into one and the same body , [ i. e. received such a proportion , or measure of the spirit given us , which is sufficient to make us one body , ] but we have also been made to drink unto one spirit , [ i. e. have received of this spirit of god so liberally , so plentifully , that we may very well become one spirit hereby amongst our selves , and walk together without either divisions in judgmēts , or distances in our affections . ] this construction of the preposition , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , might be exemplified from the scriptures : and however , there is no hardness or unpleasantness in it . and this exposition of the clause , receives countenance from all those passages in both epistles , wherein the apostle signifies the more then ordinary pourings out of the spirit in variety of gifts and graces upon these corinthians . but , . ( and lastly ) suppose it should be granted , . that the apostle in this verse speaks of water-baptism , . that his meaning is , that by this baptism , they had been all baptized into one body ; yet , . it doth not follow , that this must needs be understood constitutively , but declaratively only ; and that all implyed hereby should be , that by their baptism they did declare , or signo tenus pretend , unto the world , that they were one body , not that they were constituted , or really and actually made one body , by their baptism . . both the said particulars admitted , yea and this also , that they were ( in a sence ) by water-baptism baptized [ constitutively ] into one body , yet will it not follow from all these put together , either , . but that they might have been , yea and now were , the same body , which they were , by another constitution , and constitutor ( one , or more ) besides that of water-baptism ; or , . that no other kind of water-baptism , but only that by dipping , would have been every whit as effectual , as that by diping , to constitute or make them one body . as to the former ; men may be truly said to be justified [ i. e. constituted or made righteous ] by faith ; and yet as truly be said also to be justified by christ , yea and by god himself , and this with the self same justification . yea children without faith are justified with the same justification by god and christ , wherewith men beleevers are justified through faith . in like manner a company of beleevers , may be said to be constituted a church by baptism , and yet be said to be constituted and made this very church by the spirit of christ , or by faith also ; yea though baptism be wanting , yet may these persons be a church of a like , as sound , as worthy a constitution by means of the other two , the spirit of christ , and faith . to the latter ; suppose baptizing by sprinkling , or pouring water on the face , or head , were only the ordinance of men , and not of christ ; yet by common agreement and consent about the signification and purport of this ordinance , a general submission unto it by men , might as well and as much , constitute them one and the same body , as baptizing by dipping would do . it is true , upon such a supposition as this , the unity of the body , so far as the ceremony of sprinkling hath to do in it , is not raised , or effected , according to the mind or precept of christ ; but yet those other constitutors of the same unity ( i mean , the spirit of god , and faith ) are not defeated in their operations or effects hereby . so that the body , or church , we speak of , is a true body or church of christ , although the external contributor towards the unity of it , be not such as it ought to be . but in this latter part of our answer , we put our selves to more trouble then we need , by arguing against such thing● , which neither can be proved , nor are ( indeed ) in themselves probable . however our brethren may please to take notice here from how ready and desirous we are to give them satisfaction in the largest measure they can desire it . . ( and lastly ) whereas an unlawfulness of communicating with churches or persons unbaptized ( as some call unbaptized ) is argued from hence ; that the gospel no where records , or approves of , any such communicating by saints baptized , in the apostles days ; we answer , . that it is not recorded that the spring , or water , wherein the eunuch was baptized , was so deep as to reach , or come up to his ankles , when he went ( as is supposed ) into it : yet our brethren build very high , and with confidence ( more then enough ) upon a far greater depth then so in it . nor is it recorded that any of the seven churches of asia , or the greater part of the members of any of them , were baptized : yet our brethren would think it unreasonable in us to deny it . but by what law should our brethren judg it unreasonable in us to deny , upon the account of a non-being recorded , what they suppose to be true ; when as they judg it very commendable in themselves to deny that only upon the same account of not being recorded , which we judg to be true ? but if we deny them the principle , or priviledg of unreasonableness , their fabrick falls to the ground . . where the scripture , not only allows , but enjoyneth , the beleeving yoke-fellow in marriage , cohabitation with the unbeleeving , there it doth ex super abundanti both approve and require church-cohabitation and communion of the baptized with the un-baptized ; at least where both parties are really sanctified by faith in christ jesus , and the baptized have most solemnly , and in the presence of god , and before many witnesses of his saints , engaged themselves by promise unto the other , to walk with them in all the ordinances of god and of christ , as they should be at any time revealed and made known unto them . i shall not ( i suppose ) need to traverse the comparison . the argument a minore ad majus , from the less probability to the greater , lieth large above ground . if infidelity , which is ten times worse then the want of an external ceremony , yet hath no power to absolve the beleeving wife for her matrimonial engagement to her husband ; much less hath a defect of , or in , an outward ceremony , in one or more members of a christian society , any commission or authority from god to discharge those , who call themselves baptized , from those sacred promises or engagements , wherein they have openly and avowingly affianced themselves to this society . . where the lord christ saith , what god hath joyned together , let no man put asunder , ( mat. . . ) he doth more then justifie that communion , which is the subject matter of our present debate . for if it was god , that joyned together the persons who now look upon themselves , as baptized , with those who are challenged for unbaptized , in that holy communion wherein they sometimes walked together , then it is a plain case , that no man ( indeed no creature ) whatsoever hath any authority or right of power , whatsoever his pretence may be , to dissolve the band of this communion between them , except it be given unto him by god . and then this gift or grant from god must be made to appear to men , before they ought to own or countenance any man in his act of parting , or putting asunder what god hath joyned together . and the truth is , that that man , or creature , that shall claim a right of power to abrogate or disanul any act of god , otherwise then from god himself , maketh himself not only equal , but superior in power , unto god . so that all the question is , whether god may lawfully and with truth be entituled to those transactions , by which the respective members of a society or fellowship of saints , do at any time imbody themselves , or become a church or spiritual corporation . for if it be either granted , or proved , that god is the author of these councels or motions in the hearts of his saints , as well undipt , as dipped , by which they incorporate or imbody themselves , it will roundly follow , that men have no power , but that which is usurped , and sinfully used , to dissolve , either in whole , or in part , these imbodied societies , or incorporations . for if god , upon this supposition , should authorize or license men to make any such dissolution , he should be divided against , and inconsistent with , himself ; giving men leave , what he builds up in one day , to pull down the next . for certain it is , that they who separate and rend themselves off from any society of saints after one , two , or three years walking with them , had the same right or power of separating themselves the very next day or hour after their first uniting , unless it be supposed that this society in the mean time hath enormously corrupted it self , or apostatized from that faith , which it professed when the said persons first joyned themselves unto it . now whether god be the author of those counsels and motions in the hearts of his saints , whether dipt , or undipt , by the ducture whereof they are led to imbody themselves ( as hath been said , ) can be no mans question , who doth but know and consider the most gracious and blessed tendencies , yea and real effects of such incorporations , when the persons incorporated do but in any considerable degree walk according to their light , and perform the terms of their engagements , dipping , or not dipping , making no difference in this kind . notwithstanding if a thing so clear and evident as this should be any mans doubt , demonstrations and proofs are near at hand ; but till they be called for , the reader ( haply ) for his ease , had rather hear of them , then have them . but , . ( and lastly ) to justifie the practise of persons dipped in separating and tearing off themselves from the societies of saints undipt , it is not ( so much as in colour or shew ) sufficient to plead , that they find no example in the scripture of any such communion ; but it is absolutely necessary hereunto , that they find and shew some example ( and this attested by the spirit of god ) of such a separation , as they practise . they find no example in scripture of any beleever dipped after they had been dedicated in their infancy unto the service of christ by sprinkling , or washing ; yet they judg themselves bound to the practise . why may they not as well judg themselves bound to remain in communion with societies undipt , although they find no example in scripture of a like practise ? if they practise in one case without example , why do they not the like in the other ? as for matter of precept , whereon to build either the one practise , or the other ; certainly there is as much ( or rather much more ) for holding communion with saints , though undipt , as for dipping , after sprinkling , or washing . and as sprinkling , or washing in infancy , is no where expresly or literâ tenùs made an exception against after dipping ; so neither is this dipping made any exception or bar against holding communion with saints or beleevers , though undipt . yea whereas that communion ▪ we speak of is an act or service of love and of mercy , and consequently one of the great things of the law , dipping being only a ceremony , and so answering the tything of mint , anise , and cummin , certainly if men think themselves bound in conscience not to leave the latter undone , they are much bound to observe and do the former . therefore they who dip after sprinkling , in this very practise condemn themselves for breaking communion after dipping . post-script , to the reader . good reader , upon occasion of the foregoing considerations , and the argument traversed in them , i judged it not amiss to subjoyn in the cloze of them one consideration more ▪ which though it doth not so particularly relate unto the argument of the former , yet may it through the blessing of god comfort , strengthen , and relieve thee against such impressions of sadness , wherewith , as well that troublesom and disorderly behavior of men there counter-argued , as many other parts of no better , if not of a much worse import , like to be shortly acted upon the stage of the world yet standing , are like to fill thy soul . the consideration i mean , is , that the great troubler of the world , the devil , knowing that he hath now but a very short time , is like to arm himself with greater wrath then ever , against the poor generation of the children of men , the objects of his deadly fury and most inveterate indignation . they who have yet their turns of mortality to take , either in whole , or in part , are like to learn and know more within the space of one year what a devil meaneth , then those who have lived before them have done in seven . satan hath but dallied with the world in mischief and blood hitherto ( in comparison . ) the scope of time before him wherein to act , was a kind of temptation upon him to remissness in his work . now finding and feeling himself close begirt , and pen'd up in straits of time for action , it cannot be expected but that he should dayly break out upon the world like thunder and lightening out of the blackest cloud . acerrima virtus est , quam ultima necessitas extundit . he never rent and tare the poor child ( luk. . ) so cruelly , as when he knew that the date of his possession was now expired . and however his game by , as well the present troubles , perplexities , and confusions of the world , as the eternal ruine and perdition of the precious souls of men , ( for his motto may be , tam marte , quàm mercurio , ) yet when he can pursue and follow both in one and the same chase , he is in the highest extasie of his delight . his great and deeply beloved design is to dissolve his works in the world , who he knoweth came into the world to dissolve his . and as he knoweth that christ's method for the destruction of his kingdom was by kindling a fire of division in the midst of it , by means whereof , where five should be in an house , three should be divided against two , and two against three , the father divided against the son , and the son against the father , the mother against the daughter , and the daughter against the mother a , &c. in like manner his method , by way of revenge , and , if it were possible , to destroy the kingdom of christ , is , by casting fire too , a fire of division , into that also , whereby the saints in their families likewise should be divided , the husband against the wife , and the wife against the husband ; the father against his sons , and the sons against their father ; the master against his servants , and the servants against their master , &c. and though it be true , that the devil hath in former ages cast sundry fires of separation and division into that great body or bulk of the professors of christ in the world ( commonly called , the catholique church ) causing hereby great troubles and confusions in this church , and possibly might separate and divide some true saints and servants of god , from others , partakers of like precious faith with them , yet did he never ( at least since the apostles days ) attempt the kingdom of christ so compact in it self , and so well fortified for its own defence and preservation , as of late it was amongst us in the congregational churches of the nation , by any fire of division whatsoever like unto that , which is best known in the world by the name of , anabaptism . by other fires , for the most part he either separated the vile from the precious , or the vse amongst themselves , and from the vile ; in both which cases the spiritual kingdom of christ was rather a gainer , then a loser . but by this fire of anabaptism ( at least as the greatest part of the engineers , who work with it , do employ it ) he separates only the precious from the precious , saints from saints , beleevers from beleevers ; and makes the one to become as publicans and heathens unto the other . by means whereof many spiritual temples and habitations of the living god , fair and large , and wherein his soul delighted to dwell , are in imminent danger of being made waste and desolate . alass ! the fires of swenkfieldianism , famdism , antinomianism , lutheranism , calvinism , super-ordinancism , with the sparks of quaking and ranting , were , and are , but as ignes lambentes , fires running up and down and licking only the outside of the house , without kindling upon , or burning any the principals , or main timber ; whereas the fire of anabaptism , is like the fire kindled by god himself heretofore in zion ; the fierceness whereof was so sore , that ( as ieremiah lamenteth the case ) it devoured the foundations thereof , lam. . . and if we diligently consider the nature of that design , the accomplishing whereof sathan projecteth by this fire , we cannot reasonably conceive but that it should be very subtil and penetrating ( in its kind ) i mean very apt and proper to insinuate and convey it self into the judgments and consciences of good men , either less knowing , or less considerate ; and yet withall so propertied also , that persons who are diligent in the use of the touchstone , and of through judgments , may not feel the least warmth or heat of truth in it . that fire which is to separate between silver and silver , between gold and gold , had need have somewhat more then ordinary fire , in it . and when sathans device and work is to sever and divide saints from saints , true beleevers from true beleevers , imbodied as close and fast together as the scales of leviathan , the fire whereof he must make use in the operation , must be some notion , opinion , or apprehension , one or more , so calculated and conditioned , that in face it may look like a truth of god , and yet in heart be far otherwise . for by means of such a composition or constitution as this , it is apt to take good people of lighter and weaker judgments , and less considerate , and to leave those of stronger , and more inquiring : and thus the operation is finished , and the separation wrought . for there is scarce any church or congregation of beleevers , but is compounded of these two sorts of persons ; some who are more credulous , and more easie to be taken with appearances ; others , who are more jealous of faces , and who must see , a sound bottom , before they approve , or commend tops . now the doctrine or opinion ( with the concurrent practise ) imbraced by those , who are best known from others by the name of anabaptists ( i intend no reflection in the term , nor any avouchment of the propriety of it , in reference to those meant by it , but meerly designation ) is of that calculation we speak of : it hath a face or shew , both of truth , and godliness ; but it hath an heart of error , and prophaneness . by means of the former it captivateth one sort of men : by means of the latter , it alienateth the judgments and affections of others from it . i know not ( good reader ) whether thou hast taken any notice either of the fourty queries about church-communion and baptism ( some while since published ) or of the answer ( so called ) to them , published more lately . i judg it not worth , either mine , or any other mans pains , to make an anti-answer , or just reply . heaving at a feather is too childish a posture for a man . something may be said in commendation of a fair face , although the heart relating to it be never so foul and bad . my antiquerist is a man of parts and worth , in his sphere : but what the word of god , and evidence of truth make crooked , what parts or abilities of man are able to make streight ? i shall , upon occasion of the subject discoursed in the precedure of these papers , here only say this ( giving in withal a small first-fruits of an account for such my belief ) that i verily beleeve that there is nothing answered to any one of the said fourty queries , but what is defective , either in point of pertinency , or of truth , or at least of proof . the grounds of my faith in this kind , are partly the nature and import of the questions ; partly the tenor and substance of such of the answers , which i have had time to weigh and consider . for the former ; if i should propose such a question , the tenor whereof should import , that i verily beleeve the sun to be up at noon day , or , that the body ought not to be sacrificed upon the service of the shadow , or the rayment belonging to it , or the like ; could i expect , or think , that he who should undertake in answer to such my questions , to overthrow my belief imported in either , could alledg or insist upon any thing , but which of necessity must be , either impertinent , or untrue ( if not both ) or if neither , yet uncertain ; which in close disputations , especially if the degree of uncertainty be any thing considerable , amounts to little more , then to that which is untrue . for the latter ; because i would not be thought to seek out my antigonist , where possibly he may be more obnoxious , or weak , i shall give a brief account of his weakness in the best of his strength ; for i presume that if he be stronger then himself anywhere , it is in the front of his battail , and in his formost answers . therefore let us ( in a word ) see whether the foundations both of his first and second answers , be not less either in pertinency ( as hath been said ) or in truth ( if not in both , ) or least in proof . . in his answer to the first query , he layeth for one ground hereof , that which is the matter of question between him , and his querist , viz. that constituting of churches without baptism is a corrupt practise ; . that infant-sprinkling is a corrupt practise also . now what an impertinency is it in arguing , to assert that without proof , which is denyed by the adverse party ( and that in the question it self under debate , ) and withall to build the process of the dispute upon it ? . he layeth this for another ground of his answer ; that there was no such practise , as either constituting of churches without baptism , or sprinkling of infants , on foot in the world , till after all the books of the holy scriptures were finished . this likewise he affirms without all proof , notwithstanding he well knows that the sence of his querist stands to the contrary . this is of the same house and lineage of impertinency with the former . . he builds another strein of his answer upon this ground ; that the querist hath disclaimed communion with the church of rome , and the parochial churches in england ; and this upon this ground , because there is no example in scripture for such church-constitution , as that of rome and england is . here are more untruths then one , un ess a very improper construction of the phrase , disclaim communion , contracts the number . for i never disclaimed communion with the church of rome , more then i have done with the church of mahomet : nor had i ever occasion to do the one , more then the other . but the grand untruth here is , that i should have disclaimed communion with these churches , because there is no example in scripture of such church-constitutions &c. my anti querist is very much mistaken in this : for i disclaim no action whatsoever upon this account , because there is no example of this action in the scripture ; as neither do i perform any action , simply because there is an example of such an action here . but the adequate ground of my disclaiming any action ( and so of communion with any church whatsoever ) is , that i find no sufficient ground in the scriptures for my doing it . but i may ( and do ) find sufficient grounds in the scripture for my doing of many things , of which i find here no examples . however , upon this mistaken ground of my disclaiming communion with these two churches , he goeth on his way merrily , and builds as securely , as he that mistakes the sand for a rock . . he advanceth supposing yet further , that i hold communion with churches built upon infant-baptism . surely here is a pair of mistakes : one , about his own ; another , about my practise . for , . himself disclaims communion with those societies of saints , which here he calls , churches , meerly upon this account , because they are no churches . . whereas he chargeth me with holding cammunion with churches built upon infant-baptism , the truth is , that i hold no communion with such churches ; nor do i know any church , one or other , built upon any baptism , whether infant-baptism , or beleever-baptism . the churches with which i hold communion , are bvilt upon the foundations of the apostles and prophets , jesus christ himself being the chief corner stone , ephes. . . . neither is it at all pertinent to the business before him , to inform his querist , or others , that there is example in abundance in scripture of churches of a better constitution , [ he means , then of churches built upon infant-baptism , such as he supposeth i hold communion with , ] and that this is , of saints baptized after they had beleeved . we do not beleeve that baptism , whensoever , or howsoever administred , is any part of , or ingredient into , a churches constitution , more then the gospel it self , or the preaching hereof , or the service of the lords table . a church may be of a very ill constitution , though all the members of it have been regularly baptized ; and on the contrary of a good and sound constitution , though there have been some defect or irregularity in their baptism . baptism is extrinsecal to church-constitution , as the washing of a mans face or hands is to the constitution or complexion of his natural body . . another mistaken ground , upon which he builds very high , is , that the querist , and others of his judgment , plead the precept os circumcising infants under the law , as virtually requiring the baptizing of infants under the gospel . i confess if we should plead thus , we should plead much after the rate of those , who plead the unlawfulness of church communion with the saints , because they jump not in conceit with them in every circumstance about baptizing . we are far from either saying or thinking , that the precept of circumcising infants under the law , virtually requires the baptizing of them under the gospel . we hold , that had there not been a precept given , in , or under the gospel for baptizing , the precept of circumcising infants under the law , could not have justified us in our baptizing them under the gospel . we do not go about to prove the lawfulness ( much less the necessity ) of baptizing , from the precept of circumcising : this is a grand mistake in the antiquerist about the sence of his adversaries : but we receiving a precept , from god under the gospel for baptizing , without any determination of , or limitation unto , any certain age of the persons , to be by vertue of this precept baptized , and finding the councel of god to have pitched upon infancy , as the most meet age for the reception of a former ordinance of like spiritual signification and import with baptism , judg our selves bound in conscience rather to be directed to the proper subject of baptism by the councel of god in a case of like nature , then to consult the wisdoms ( or wills rather ) of men in the business . this considered , . how , not impertinent only , but importune and unsavery , is that insultation , if it be not good reasoning from circumcision to baptism , let the pedobaptists bid adieu to their cause of infant baptism , which is built and bottomed thereupon . alas , good man ! the cause of pedo-baptism is not at all built or bottomed upon any reasoning from circumcision to baptism , but upon the good word of god it self . neither have we any reason , or need , to bid adieu to this cause , although ( to please our friend the antiquerist ) we should take our leaves of our reasoning from the subject of circumcision to the more appropriate subject of baptism . yea this our good freind himself being so well acquainted with us , cannot be ignorant , but that we have many other pillars hewn out of the rock of the scriptures , whereon we build our cause of pedo-baptism , besides what we argue from the subject of circumcision . yea himself hath of late been hewing and hacking at some of them ( whereof notice may be taken in due time ) but his attempts against them have rather proved them to be strong , then any ways weak . . how impertinently weak is that insulting demand also ( in the process of this answer ) and now which of the horns of this dolemma will the pedobaptists suffer themselves to be gored by ? here the anti-querist ( it seems ) turns querist himself . but if he hath not an happier stroke in anti-querism , then in querism , he had better harken unto the proverb , manum de tabulâ , and leave his paper as white as he found it . the pedobaptists need not fear goaring by either of the horns of his dilemma : they stand so staringly wide , that there is roomth enough and enough for seaven men to pass abrest between them . for first , the mans dilemma taketh it for granted , that uncircumcised persons were excluded [ surely he means , always , not sometimes , or in some cases only ; for this would sink the saying too far beneath his cause ) from acts of church communion , whilst circumcision was in force . will he say that women were circumcised ? or that they were excluded form acts of church-communion , because they were uncircumcised ? or that all those , who were not circumcised in the wilderness , were excluded from all acts of church communion for forty years together ? . the said dilemma very weakly supposeth , that the author of it , may from the exclusion of uncircumcised ones under the law from acts of church-communion then , as well argue to the exclusion of unbaptized , or unduly baptized ones under the gospel , from church-communion now , as we reason from the subject of circumcision , to the subject of baptism . i wonder upon what principle or ground in reason such a supposition or conceit as this standeth . for what the antiquerist offereth upon this account , is no better then gibbrich or non-sence unto me . for ( sayth he ) the same things have the same consequences ; and two things alike , belong to the like reason and judgment . he that either can understand these topiques , or fit them to his case , must plough with a stronger and nimbler heyfer , then mine . that which i suppose the man would have , is this ( but his demand is most unreasonable and importune ) that if baptism succeeds circumcision in one thing , it must succeed it in another ; yea in all things . how empty such a conceit as this is both of reason , and of truth , hath been shewed in the last of our foregoing considerations . and however some of us upon occasion sometimes say , that baptism succeeds circumcision ( which is a truth evident enough , and acknowledged such , in some respects , by one of the great apostles of the anti-querists faith in the matter of baptism , ) yet have we no need of such a saying to support our cause of infant baptism . for the analogy or proportion of reason , from whence we argue , that infants may be as well the subjects of baptism , as of circumcision , may equally stand , whether baptism be looked upon as successor unto circumcision , or no . but if our good freinds intellectuals be not too far spent with the strength of the inchantment upon him , but that he yet remains in some competent capacity to receive instruction , i shall here ( once for all ) give him an account , why , though it were to be granted ( which yet it is not , but only with limitation , as was lately shewed ) that want of circumcision did exclude from church-ship under the law , yet this at no hand proveth , that therefore a defect of , or in , baptism , should do the like under the gospel . . the church of god being in the infancy or nonage of it under the law , the state and condition of it was more servile , then now under the gospel . now i say that the heir as long as he is a child , differeth nothing from a servant , though he be lord of all ; but is under tutors and governors , until the time appointed of the father . even so we when we were children , were in bondage under the elements of the world . but whtn the fulness of time was come , god sent forth his son made of a woman , made under the law , to redeem them that were under the law , that we might receive the adoption of sons * . in respect of this different state of the church under the law , and under the gospel , the churh is not to be looked upon as under a like rigour of subjection to any carnal ordinance or ceremony whatsoever , as it was under the law . nor are the external ceremonies of the gospel pressed upon like terms of peremptoriness and severity , upon the saints , as those of the law were imposed upon the carnal church of the jews . if they were , the two so different states of the church mentioned , should be confounded . but somewhat to this purpose we speak in our considerations ; where we declared , that in the gospel , no man is threatened for not being baptized , baptism being here enjoyned or recommended unto men by way of indulgence , and for their spiritual benefit and accommodation , not with any intention on gods part to render the bare omission of it an article of condemnation against any man , much after the manner of the law of the free-wil offering under the law . and whereas it was said unto abraham concerning circumcision , he that is born in thy house , and he that is bought with thy mony must needs be circumcised , it is no where said unto any person in the new testament , ye must needs be baptized ; yea unto the eunuch requiring baptism , philip answered , if thou beleevest with thy whole heart , thou mayst , not , thou must [ be baptized . ] there is an eye of this evangelical liberty concerning external observations in the institution it self of the other ordinance also , as the apostle paul recordeth it , cor. . . . this do ye as oft as ye do it , in remembrance of me . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lords death till he come . here is no injunction of the quoties , but a plain intimation of a liberty touching this ; only the manner of the toties is strictly prescribed : which is the direct calculation , or manner of sanction of the institution concerning the free-wil offering under the law . this kind of offering was imposed upon no man , as of necessity : only the terms of the oblation of it , when offered , are strictly prescribed . see levit. . , , &c. and again , levit. . . . , &c. but , . concerning circumcision , there never was any question among the jews , nor indeed any place or occasion for a question , either whether it was commanded by god , or no , or whether the practise of it was to continue till the coming of the messiah , or no ; no nor yet concerning the due mode or manner of its administration . so that whosoever refused to submit to circumcision , during the reign of it , did ipso facto and without dispute , openly manifest , yea profess disobedience to god in an express command . whereas the anti-querist well knoweth , that amongst the saints and servants of god themselves , and persons as tender conscienced , of as rich an obediential frame of heart towards god , as himself , or the best of his late-born perswasion , there are many scruples , questions , and cases of conscience about baptism ; some being unsatisfied whether there be any command of god , or of christ , in the gospel , requiring subjection of any person in these days , unto such a thing ; others , ohether the mind and pleasure of god be , that the ordinary and standing administration of it should be made to infants , or persons of mature years ; others again , whether the administration of it may not with as good , or better acceptance with god , be made by sprinkling , or pouring water on the baptized , as by dowzing or dipping ( besides several others of like nature . ) and such questions and dissatisfactions amongst holy , humble , grave and sober christians , as these , undeniably shew and prove , that the mind and will of god t●uching these particulars , is very sparingly , obscurely , and with much scantness of discovery , delivered in the scriptures . the premises considered , the case must needs become plain , why , though it should be granted that circumcision was made by god a necessary condition of church-ship under the law , yet this no ways proveth , that he hath made baptism , especially in any particular mode of its administration , a like condition of church-membership under the gospel . if god should have intended baptism ( as some men count baptism ) for a necessary requisite , or ingredient into churchship under the gospel , he should have made a law for the inchurching of his saints , which would have excluded the far greatest ( yea and best ) part of them from all part and fellowship in that gracious accommodation ; and which would have brought in an heterogeneal generation of vain and loose persons , in their stead ; as now the groundless conceit of such a law doth amongst us . nor can any man tolerably imagin , had the precept of god concerning circumcision under the law , been like to have occasioned as many doubtful disputations amongst the best of the jewish nation , as he knew the signification of his mind concerning baptism in the gospel , would occasion and raise amongst the best of his saints , that he would ever have regulated church-fellowship amongst them by circumcision . yea , . ( and lastly ) the regulation of church-communion under the levitical law by circumcision ( upon the terms , and with the limitations formerly specified ) is so far from being so much as a probable argument , that church-communion should be intended by god to be regulated by baptism under the gospel , that it rather evinceth the quite contrary . for as the communion of the church under the law , whilst it [ the church ] was yet carnal , and servile , in the infancy or nonage of it , was regulated by a rule or law suitable to the state and condition of it , i. e. by a law of a carnal ordinance ; so is it reasonable to conceive , that the church under the gospel being spiritual ( pet. . . ) and of mature growth , the communion thereof should be regulated by a law or rule agreeable to the condition and state hereof , and which requireth , and consiseth in , somewhat that is more spiritual , and not by baptism , which is a carnal ceremony ( so acknowledged by the greatest masters themselves of the way called anabaptism ) as well as circumcision . thus they who have eyes to see , and hearts to understand , may clearly enough perceive , that however the subject of baptism under the gospel may be rationally calculated by the subject of circumcision under the law ; yet the regulation of church-communion by circumcision under the law , can be no ground of estimating church fellowship by baptism under the gospel . we have assigned reason upon reason of the difference . and thus having felt and handled the two insulting horns of the late-threatening dilemma ; we find them to be made of brown paper . but ( to proceed yet a little further with the answerer in his answer to the first query ) . another ground whereon he builds , is , that the scripture is every whit as express ; for baptism , to precede the enjoyment of church priviledges , as it is for a voluntary consenting to church order and government , to precede the same enjoyment . but how impertinently to his cause , and with how little proof , is this affirmed ? first , if by , church-priviledges , he means , all church-priviledges , how can the scripture be express for baptism to precede the enjoyment of them , when as it self is one of these priviledges ; and ( doubtless according to his sence ) one of the greatest of them ? is the scripture express for any thing to precede the enjoyment of it self ? if by , church-priviledges , he means , some of these priviledges , when he hath specified which he means , we shall consider further of his assertion . but , . the scripture may be express enough for baptism to precede the enjoyment he speaks of , [ i. e. that baptism did sometimes precede this enjoyment , and may precede it still , yea and haply that in some cases it ought to precede it , ] and yet be neither express , nor virtual or implicit , for the absolute or universal necessity of such a precedure , which is the point wherewith the query before him pincheth him . . ( and lastly ) the scripture may be as express for what he saith it is , as for a voluntary consenting to church order , &c. and yet be neither express , nor yet virtual or consequential , for it . for the truth is , that the scripture is not express for the said consenting : only some of us judg it meet to desire such a consent of those , whom we judg otherwise meet to admit into communion with us in church-priviledges , to prevent some grand inconveniences , which it is not pertinent here to specifie ; although the sence of others of us is otherwise in the case . and , . how impertinent to his cause is this reasoning : if one person may be admitted upon such terms , [ he means , to church-priviledges without baptism , ] then why not two ? if two , why not ten , and so an hundred , or a thousand ? and consequently such gospel order layd totally aside ? if an hundred , or a thousand , or ten thousands , should be admitted to church-priviledges upon a manifestation of their faith ( which may be otherways , and to far better satisfaction , done , then by a being baptized ) with an exclusion of all others , who are able to give no such account of a work of faith in them , would this be a total laying aside of gospel order ? good reader , consider and judg . . he affirms , that those precepts , exhortations , or doctrines by which men stand enjoyned to observe gospel order , do virtually prohibit men baptized communion with unbaptized in church-fellowship , as that which is contrary thereunto . but at what a distance do his proofs stand from his position , as if they were meer strangers to it . for , . his first proof is built upon a clear mistake of the word , teach , go and teach all nations , mat. . . ( and indeed upon a misunderstanding of the whole verse . ) for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to teach , doth not signifie to teach men so , as to make them willing to obey the gospel , [ which sence notwithstanding bears the whole burthen of his first proof of the said position : ] this sence of the word was ( i beleeve ) never heard of from any author that hath written in the greek tongue ; and however , cannot be the sence of it here ( as will appear presently : ) but the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , properly signifies to instruct or teach ; or ( which is the same ) to do that , which is apt and proper to make a disciple , one or more , whether any person be actually , or by way of event or success , made a disciple , or no . and that this was the proper and only sence of the word intended by the lord christ here , is evident ; because otherwise , . he must be conceived to give a commission or charge to men to do that , which was not in their power to do , as viz. actually to regenerate , or convert men to the faith , &c. . it would follow , that although the apostles should have taught and preached the gospel with never so much faithfulness , yet they had falsified the trust reposed in them by christ , and acted short of their commission , if they did not at all times when they preached , make those , to whom they preached , actual beleevers . this considered , how impertinent and insulse is that conceit , that an injunction to baptize is therefore put by a participle of the present tense , teach all nations , baptizing them &c. to imply , that they were presently to baptize men upon their being taught . if this were so , all persons whatsoever , to whom the gospel was at any time preached by the apostles , were , upon their bare hearing of it , and whether they beleeved , or blasphemed , to have been baptized by them . and if there be any sence at all in these words , as all examples of that nature in the acts of the apostles do declare , how loud an untruth is it . there is not so much as any one example throughout the acts of the apostles , of a person baptized barely or meerly upon his hearing of the gospel preached unto him . but how impertinently this piece of scripture is alledged , either to prove who , or what kind of person , is the proper and adequate subject of baptism ; or a necessitie that all beleevers to the worlds end , should be baptized , or otherwise be guilty of sin , hath been argued in the preceding considerations . . how little truth , or pertinency there is in his second proof of the aforesaid position , sufficiently appears by the examination of the first . for though the apostles did put the said commission of christ into execution according to his command , i. e. did both teach and baptize , yet it doth not follow from hence , either , . that they baptized all that they taught , ( the contrary hereunto is evident from the story , act. . , . and . . and other places ) therefore the teaching mentioned in their commission , was not the rule of their baptizing . nor , . doth it follow , that because upon their first preaching of the gospel in jerusalem , they baptized those who gladly received their word , and beleeved , therefore they baptized in like manner all those , or any of those , who were converted to the faith by their after-preaching in the same place . we read of no such thing as this in any place of the acts , or elsewhere ( as we formerly observed . ) nor did the tenor of their commission impose this upon them . for he that is simply and only commanded to teach , and to baptize , as he is not hereby commanded to teach continually , so neither is he commanded to baptize always when he teacheth . but whereas he demandeth ; what is more plain then that the commission of christ to them , was to teach and baptize first , and to admit into church-fellowship thereupon , as is visible in that prime example of theirs , acts . , . i answer , this is much more plain , viz. that they were not commissioned in that commission we speak of , to admit into church-fellowship , either upon terms of baptism , or any other , there being not so much as the least mention or hint here about admission into church-fellowship . nor is it said , acts . , . either that the apostles admitted any into church-fellowship ; or . that any were admitted into church-fellowship , much less that they were admitted into this fellowship , because they had been baptized ; but all that is here said ( as to the point now in hand ) is : then they that gladly received his word , were baptized , and the same day {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. there were added , or added to [ not , to them , as our antagonist emphaseth , or , to the church , but rather , to the lord , as it is , acts . ] about three thousand souls . neither is the addition here spoken of , ascribed to the apostles : it is not said , that they , or any of them , added so much as one soul . but if we will entitle him unto the addition here spoken of , to whom the holy ghost ascribeth it , vers. . we must say , that it was made by the lord ; and the lord added unto the church dayly such as should be saved . here , where there is express mention made of adding to the church , there is no mention made of baptism . . his third and last proof is as irrelative to his purpose , as both the former . for christians are not said ( rom. . ) to be planted together in [ it is not , into , as our anti-querist takes a most unworthy liberty , both here , and elsewhere more then once or twice , to mis-cite his scriptures ] the likeness of christs death , by reason , or means , of their water-baptism ; for then it would follow ( from the latter clause of the verse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) that all who are thus baptized , should be everlastingly partakers of his resurrection ; but we are said to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , complanted with christ , in , through , or by means of , a likeness of his death , when we are truly and really mortified , and become dead unto sin , and to the world : which is a kind of death holding some analogy with , and carrying in it some resemblance of , that death which christ suffered upon the cross . and the apostle informs us , that by such a death as this , we become planted together with christ , i. e. interested with him in that most stable , fixed , and unchangeable councel and purpose of god , wherein he hath decreed the immortal glory and blessedness of all those that shall obey him . this sence of the place considered , how frivolous and impertinent is this supercilious interrogatory , which he builds upon it ? and may you not therefore as well suppose trees to grow together , before they are planted together , as to suppose christians to grow together before they are planted together ? yes surely , as well the latter , as the former : but the mischief of the impertinency is ; that christians may be planted together in christ by a work of mortification , and so grow together , whether they be baptized , or no : and they may be baptized together , and so be planted together as far as water can plant them , and yet not grow together ; but some wither and dye , whilest others grow and prosper . or however , such a plantation which is by baptism only , is no way , or means , of growth unto any man . and yet of the two , it is a broader impertinency , to make this demand , in stead of a proof that a church cannot stand but upon baptism , and what house stands without its principles , or is built without a foundation , only upon occasion of this admonition of the apostle to the hebrews ; leaving the word of the beginning of christ , let us advance towards perfection ; and his making , not the practise , but the doctrine , not of any one baptism determinately , but of baptisms ( plurally ) a part of the foundation ; i. e. of the body or systeme of that doctrine , which young beginners in the school of christ were wont to learn in the first place , as in building a foundation is first to be layd in order to a superstruction . but what is there in this passage , to prove that one baptism , or one kind of baptism , is the foundation of a church , more then another ? or that any kind of baptism , more then imposition of hands ? or that either imposition of hands , or baptism in one kind or other , more then repentance from dead works , or faith towards god ; especially considering that these two are named in the first place , as the principal parts of the foundation he speaks of , and first to be layd ? yea supposing that the hebrews , to whom he writes , were a constituted church , and that he had taught them the doctrine of baptisms under this constitution , it evidently follows , either that they were a church before they were baptized , or that they had been baptized before they had been instructed in the doctrine of baptism . i beleeve it is much harder for the anti-querist to escape goaring ( as he calls it ) by one or other of the horns of this dilemma , then we found it to make an escape from both the horns of that dilemma , which was prepared by him to do the mischief . . concerning the text , cor. . . where the apostle saith , not as our anti-querist citeth the words shorter by the head , that they were all baptized into one body ; but , by one spirit they were all baptized , &c. this scripture ( i say ) we argued somewhat at large in the last of our considerations ; and found war in the heart of it against church-constitution by water-baptism . and running is no posture for repetitions . only whereas my friend the anti-querist challengeth me that some while since i interpreted this scripture comportingly with his notion ; the truth is , that i do not find such a line in any fragment of the history of my life extant at present in my memory ; yet because i dayly find so little stedfastness in my memory , as i do , i had rather in the business trust my friend and his memory , then mine own . but this i well remember , that long since i learned this christian principle from an heathen philosopher , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a man must be content to sacrifice even his own sayings , and opinions , upon the service of the truth . this kind of sacrifice i have oft offered : and if my antagonist , and some others , could be perswaded to consecrate themselves priests of this order , with me , the water of baptism would be no longer a fire to divide between friends and friends . but they rather chuse to be priests of that order , whose hierourgy or priestly function mainly stands in sacrificing the body upon the service of the rayment , or the substance , upon the service of the shadow . . whereas he demands , ought not that , which was a reason to them [ he means , the apostles in the primitive times ] not to admit church-members into church fellowship [ we pardon the impropriety ] without baptism , to be a reason unto us likewise to steere the same cou●se , &c. doth he not very impertinently and groundlesly suppose , that they had a reason not to admit the admission he speaks of ? he hath not hitherto so much as intimated unto us any reason at all of such a non-admission in the apostles , as that now mentioned . if that should be granted him , which he will never be able to prove , viz. that the apostles did not admit into church-fellowship without baptism , yet it will not follow from hence , that therefore they had a reason to admit none without it ; especially if the case were so , as the anti querist seems to suppose it , viz. that no unbaptized person ever desired such admission of them . and suppose ( for argument sake ) that they had de facto admited into church-communion only unbaptized persons , it would not follow from hence , that therefore they had reason to exclude all others , as all that were baptized , in case they had desired it . if all who desired church-fellowship , and consequently all who were admitted unto it , were baptized ; is this any argument or proof , that therefore in case others had desired it , they must needs have been rejected ? if a man should go a fishing upon the seas , and should catch only of one sort of fish , as suppose whiteings , would it follow that therefore he had reason to catch no other ? . how importune and impertinent are these words also ! if so , then farewel all gospel obligations . for if we may take liberty to cast away one law of gospel order , and worship , then why not two , and so three , and in the end , all ? &c. for doth he not here suppose , that separating from churches , or persons , unbaptized ( though esteemed in the world , and by all but himself , and his , baptized ) is or was , a law of gospel order , binding christians of the first age ? surely this law is written on the back-side of some of pauls epistles , where no man did ever read it . and they that take liberty to cast away this law , are more like to bid all gospel obligations , welcome , then to bid them farewel . secondly he supposeth that those rules , by which the apostles ordered themselves in their times , were binding to christians of that age ; which is broadly importune and truthless . for the truth is , that no rule whatsoever , by which the apostles ordered themselves , as apostles ( and certainly they ordered themselves by many such rules as these ) was binding unto any other christian of that age , but unto themselves only . thirdly ( and lastly ) he supposeth it a grand absurdity , and tending to a dissolution of all gospel order , to imagin , that there were any gospel rules binding only to christians of the first age of the gospel . doth he think , that when christians of the age he speaks of , sold their possessions , lands , and houses , and brought the prices of them , and laid them down at the apostles feet , they did this irregularly , or without rule ? or without a rule binding unto them ? if this latter , then it follows , that either christ himself , or his apostles , prescribed some rules , which were not binding , no not unto christians of this first age ? or doth he think that that rule , by which those christians acted in the case specified , is binding unto us now ? yet that rule respected charity , and self-denial ; and so in reason should be more binding unto us now , then rules respecting only an outward rite or ceremony . again it was a rule binding unto those christians he speaks of , that their women praying or prophesying , should have their head covered , and that men on the contrary should have their heads uncovered . doth he judge this rule binding unto us now ? or do all men sin who prophesy [ i. e. joyn with him that preahcheth the word , in the act of hearing ] with their heads covered ? i beleeve there are many who should sin much more , if they should prophecy with their heads uncovered ; viz. all those who by reason of weakness or tenderness are like to suffer in their healths , if they should sit uncovered for an hour or two together , in a cold place and cold season . there is the same confideration of a frosty-dipping to persons that are valetudinary , of a crazy and infirm constitution , though it were supposed that there was a rule binding christians of that age , and of those warm countries , to dip at all times immediately upon their beleeving . instance might be given in several other gospel rules , which were binding unto christians of the first age , at least unto those particular christians to whom they were prescribed , and yet are not so unto us now . the rule which prescribed the holy kiss , which prescribed the speaking in an unknown tongue by two , or at the most by three , ( cor. . . ) which prescribed the holding of the peace to him that was speaking in the church , in case any thing were revealed unto another , ( cor. . . ) which prescribed abstaining from meat offered to idols , and from blood , &c. were binding unto those christians of the first age , to whom they were given ; but are they all binding unto us now ? or in case they were all now binding , but one or more of them not so apprehended by christians now , and upon this account not observed by them ; doth it follow from hence , that they must needs bid farewell to all gospel obligations ? if my anti-querist not seeing , or minding a friend of his passing by him in the street , should omit the salutations accustomed between friends , doth this tend to the abolishing or casting away all friendly commerce or expressions between them otherwise ? or in case a man gathering his apples , overlooks one that is more covered with leaves or boughs , then the rest , and so leaveth it ungathered , doth he hereby either dispose , tempt , or encourage , either himself , or others , never to gather apple more ? what frivolous and empty reasonings are these ? let me here observe this one thing more . the apostles were not so uniform in imposing ordinances upon churches in their days , but that what upon occasion they imposed upon one , sometimes they relaxed unto another . they imposed abstinence from meats offered to idols , and so from blood , upon the church at antioch , simply and indefinitely , act. . . whereas the apostle paul enjoyneth the former abstinence unto the church of corinth only in the case of scandal unto weak brethren , and of encouragement to idolaters , cor. , , . compared with chap. . , , , &c. and concerning the latter , he seemeth to relax it unto the generality of christians ( those haply excepted , to whom it had been enjoyned , together with others lying under the like circumstantial obligations thereunto ) in that passage to timothy , tim. . , , , . where he saith , that every creature of god is good , and nothing to be refused , if it be received with thanksgiving ; yea and ( which is more considerable ) maketh it a character of men giving heed to seducing spirits , and speaking lyes in hypocrisie , to command to abstain from meats , which god created to be received with thanksgiving , &c. . whereas he saith , that it is said in effect in cor. . , and the like scriptures lately quoted by him , that all of all sorts , ranks , and degrees , that were of the body , were baptized into the body , &c. it is indeed said ( as we heard ) that they were all by one spirit baptized into one body . but how impertinent , yea and voyd of truth is it to ascribe that unto water-baptism , which is so expresly attributed by the apostle to a baptizing in , or with , the spirit ? but this scripture hath been argued more at large . . ( and lastly , for this answer ) he saith , that the same ground which did satisfie beleevers then [ in the apostles days ] in not joyning in church fellowship with persons unbaptized , though they did beleeve — will serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of the same practise , which is the will and appointment of jesus christ that so it should be , &c. but to how little purpose is this said ? for , . he hath not yet proved ( nor i beleeve ever will ) that baptized beleevers in the apostles days did not joyn in church-fellowship with persons un-baptized , though beleevers . and how impertinent is it in arguing , to suppose that without proof , which a man knoweth is denyed by his adversary ? . in case he had proved , or could prove , such a thing , ( i mean , that baptized beleevers did not joyn in church-fellowship with unbaptized beleevers , ) yet would it not follow from hence , that therefore they did not thus joyn with such upon any such ground as this , viz. because it was the will and appointment of iesus christ that so it should be . christians in these times ( as in all other ) did , and especially did not , many things , upon other grounds , then this , as viz because they have no occasion , opportunity , or necessity to do them . they did not joyn themselves in a team with horses , or after the manner of horses , to draw carts , or wains ; they did not , at least many of them did not , joyn with merchants where they lived , in their adventures by sea . did they omit the doing of these things ( and twenty more like unto them ) upon this ground , or motive , because it was the will and appointment of iesus christ that so it should be ? how uncouth , sapless , and without savor , are such conceits and reasonments as these ? the baptized beleevers he speaks of might possibly not joyn in church-fellowship with unbaptized beleevers , only upon this ground ; viz. because no such desired this fellowship with them . but will this ground serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of such a practise , when as there are beleevers , whom they call unbaptized , who desire this fellowship with them ? but it is no great marvel that the carver , though a good artist , can make no better a mercury ; the wood he hath to work upon , is not for it . . ( and lastly ) the nonjoyning of baptized beleevers in church-fellowship with beleevers unbaptized , could it be proved , would serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of the same practise . but not to joyn , and to break off or separate after joyning , are two very different practises . that ground which would satisfie a beleeving man or woman for their not joyning in marriagewith an infidel or unbeleever ; will not serve to satisfie them touching the lawfulness of the practise of separation from him , or her , after marriage . therefore my anti-querist doth not argue pertinently at this turn neither . he pleads another cause in stead of his own . for a cloze to what at present i reply to his answer given unto my first query , it is very observable , that he doth not at all , his long answer throughout , so much as touch upon one thing , which the said query asketh after with as great a desire of satisfaction , as after any thing besides . the query thus saluteth him : whether is there any precept , or example , in the gospel , of any person , how duly soever baptized , who disclaimed christian communion , either in church-fellowship , or in any the ordinances of the gospel , with those , whom he judged true beleevers , upon an account only of their not having been baptized , especially after such a manner , as he judged it necessary for them to have been ? these last words , especially after such a manner , &c. which are as emphatical as any other in all the query , and with which he found his cause harder pinched then with any thing besides , he prudently dissembles in his answer , as if they were not . to give a just and competent answer to the query , he should not only have attempted to prove , that there are examples in thegospel of baptized persons , who disclaimed church communion with beleevers upon the only account of their not having been baptized ( which indeed he hath attempted , though successlesly , ) but also that they disclaimed this communion with them upon the account only of their not having been baptized after such or such a particular mode , as they judged necessary . but speaking neither little nor much to this point , in stead of an answer in full to the query before him , he giveth us an answer that is empty ; and which speaketh short to other things , but to that which is most material , nothing at all . concerning his answer to the second query , it is of a like raw spinning with the former , and in neither respect , either of pertinency , or of truth , any whit more considerable then it . for , . ( to take notice in the beginning of this answer , of the same tergiversation , which we respited to the cloze of the former ) he doth his good will to say somewhat to what he conceived more repliable in the query ; but that which he apprehended ( as he had reason to do ) more intractable , he answereth with silence , and a prudential slip . yea whereas by transcribing so much of the query , as he doth , he induceth his reader to conceive that he presenteth him with the whole ; the truth is , that he wholly suppresseth and keeps out of sight , that intire clause , wherein the query beareth hardest upon him . for these words are not extant in his edition ; especially in case they had been baptized and solemnly consecrated by washing with water unto the service of jesus christ before . and as his prudence taught him not to acquaint his reader that there were any such words in the query , as these , so the same guide directed him to undertake somewhat else , in stead of answering any thing to the matter contained in them . for had his answer kept way with the demand intended in these words , it must have proved not simply , or only , that the apostles , or christians in their days , denyed church-communion unto beleevers not baptized , after their beleeving , but unto such beleevers also , who had been solemnly consecrated by washing with water unto the service of iesus christ before their beleeving . this he wisely considered was impossible for him to do : therefore he abandoneth it from amongst his undertakings . in the mean time we are like to have but a lame answer to the query . . how little savor , either of reason , or of truth , is there in the very first words of this answer ! for are they not these ? it doth not only appear , that the apostles and other christians would have declined church-communion with beleevers , because not baptized , but it appears that they did do it . for it sufficiently appears that men and women did beleeve , before they were baptized . by the way let this be minded ; that here also he evades and slips quire besides that , which that part of the query , to which here he pretends an answer , principally demanded . for it is here demanded , not only whether it can be proved , that the apostles , or other christians , would have declined church-communion with , but further , whether they would have denied this communion unto , such persons , whom they judged true beleevers , because not baptized . now the difference between , declining communion with , and , denying communion unto , is very broad . a man may decline , i. e. not do , many things , [ viz. in case he be not requested , or desired to do them ] which yet being requested , he would not deny to do . the apostles might very possibly decline , i. e. non-admit unbaptized beleevers into church-communion , upon a supposition that they desired it not . and yet as possibly , nay much more probably , not deny this communion unto them , in case they had desired it . but in as much as the anti-querist had not so much as in colour what to answer to this strein , or touch of the querie , his prudentials befriended him with this stratagem ; to leave out those words of the querie in the transcription , wherein this unruly demand was contained . but passing by this , how impertinently doth he argue that little which he undertakes , in the words mentioned ? for , first , suppose it should be granted him that the apostles and christians did decline communion with beleevers unbaptized , doth it presently follow , that therefore they declined it , because they were unbaptized ? a man declines such and such meats , which are tender and easie of digestion : but this proveth not , that their tenderness , or easiness of digestion is the reason why he declines them . every quality or property in a subject , is not the reason or ground of every thing that is done unto it , nor yet of the forbearance of every act , that is not acted upon , or about it . if my antiquerist demands ; but what can reasonably be supposed to be the reason or cause , why the apostles or others , should decline communion with un-baptized beleevers , but only their not being baptized ; i answer ; . that a simple non-admiting to communion , can in no tolerable construction be called , a declining of communion , or , of admiting to cōmunion . there be an hundred godly persons about thecity , whom i do not admit intochurch communion with me , whose communion notwithstanding i cannot with truth be charged to decline . therefore whilst my anti-querist only shews or proves , that the apostles , or others , did not admit into church-communion , beleevers unbaptized , he doth not at all hereby satisfie or answer thequestion propounded : this speaks of declining communion : he answers of not admiting to communion , here is only a stone given , when bread was demanded . yet , . to the question now propounded , i answer ; the reason why the apostles did not admit beleevers unbaptized into church-communion ( if this either should be granted , or could be proved ) is most probably this ; viz. because such beleevers desired it not of them . the apostles were not wont to admit into church-communion ( in that sence we now speak of admission ) any person against his will , or without his desire signified on such a behalf . if my friendly antogonist here replies ; but if the primitive beleevers did not desire admittance into church-communion , until they were baptized , why is not this primitive pattern followed now ? i answer ; . it is not affirmed , or granted , that they made no such desire , but only upon supposition , and for argument sake . yet , . the pattern mentioned , is , as far as i understand , generally followed in these days ; no person that i know , desiring church-communion , but such only , who judg themselves baptized , as the primitive christians did in their days . how untruly he saith , that it appears that the apostles and other christians did decline church-communion with beleevers unbaptized , because unbaptized , needs no further evidence then the late premises . the reason which he subjoyns , is most importunely impertinent . for what though it never so sufficiently appears that men and women did beleeve before they were baptized ? what is there in this to prove , that therefore the apostles and christians did decline church-communion with beleevers unbaptized , because unbaptized . he that can make hand and glove of this reason , and that which was to be proved by it , how gladly , were it possible , would i exchange understandings with him ! whereas he demands ; what is a not admiting , less , then a refusing to admit , them to such communion ? i answer ; that though i cannot tell what [ i. e. precisely how much ] less it is , yet this i am certain of ( and so may any other person readily be ) that very much less it is . a non-acting dothnot necessarily suppose an unwillingness to act , but possibly a want of an opportunity only for acting , and sometimes a want of power . but a refusing to act , always imports a want of will to act . . whereas he turns querist , and demands : will it follow , that because these external rites , baptism and the like , do not avail unto mens justification , when they are observed , that therefore they are not necessary unto church-communion . i answer affirmatively , yes , it will follow , for if men may be justified without baptism ; it follows that they may beleeve and be sanctified also , andconsequently brought into the number of saints , without it . now that the will and pleasure of the lord christ is , that all saints without exception , whether baptized or unbaptized , whether convinced of the necessity of baptism , orunconvinced , should be perfected [ i. e. built up to the greatest meetness for their inheritance in light , that may be ] and consequently admitted into church-communion , where the best means of such an edification are to be found , hath been sufficiently ( i trust ) proved in the preceding considerations . concerning the rite of circumcision , how , and with what limitations it was necessary to church-communion amongst the jews ; as likewise how different the consideration of circumcision , and baptism , is , about the regulation of church-communion , hath been argued at large already . and whereas he demands ; how then can the querist estimate the usefulnes and disusefulness of baptism as to church-communion , by circumcision , as he doth , &c. the querist answereth , that he is so far from doing that , which he is here charged to do , that ( as he even now intimated ) his since is , that there is altogether a different consideration between circumcision and baptism , in their respective relations to church-communion . only herein he confesseth an agreement between them , that as that is not circumcision , which is outward in the flesh ( rom. . . meaning , not the circumcision which much commendeth any man unto god ) so neither is that baptism which is externally administred and received , the baptism that much interesseth any person in his favour . . whereas he yet demands , how the apostles or others christians in these times would have known , or have been able upon good ground to have concluded , that such persons had truly beleeved in christ unto justification , and had been meet to be admitted to communion with them , who should ( if any such had been ) have refused to obey christ in submitting to baptism , &c. i answer ; whosoever refuseth [ i. e. professedly denyeth ] to obey christ , not only in submitting unto baptism , but in any other of his commands , [ being made known to be his unto him ] cannot ( i suppose ) by any argument or testimony whatsoever be concluded to beleeve in christ unto justification . but this nothing hindereth , but that in case any person be in the general course of his life conscientious , and observant of the laws of christ as far as the knowledg hereof shall come to him , he may be upon this account concluded a beleever unto justification , although being ignorant of , or dissatisfied about , any particular law of christ , as suppose his law concerning baptism , he should not exhibit obedience unto it . nor is a refusal to submit unto baptism , in these days , of a like interpretation with such a refusal in the days of the apostles : because then there could be no place for any question or doubt , whether a submitting unto baptism , at least being required by the apostles , were an act of obedience unto christ , or no ; whereas now it is the sence of some worthy christians ( i do not say it is mine ) that a submission unto baptism is rather an act of will-worship , then of obedience unto christ , and others are dissatisfied about the necessity of it . therefore although a refusing to be baptized then , did argue a rejection of the councel of god , in the refusers ; yet supposing that god hath now layd baptism aside ( which is the judgment of those lately mentioned ) a refusing to submit unto it rather argueth an accepting , then a rejecting , of the councel of god . as the jews who refused to submit , unto circumcision after the gospel had been preached unto them , did not herein reject the councel of god concerning circumcision , but imbrace and accept it ; however such a refusal before would have been a rejection of it . . neither doth the querist estimate the apostles judgment of gospel rites by what he speaks of circumcision , but by what he opposeth both to circumcision , and to uncircumcision , and speaketh concerning them . for whereas the apostle expresseth himself , thus : in jesus christ neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but faith which worketh by love : and again , circumcision is nothing , and uncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping of the commandments of god ; he plainly declares and avoucheth , that that which is opposite to such things which are nothing , a vail nothing , ( and consequently , which is somewhat , and which highly availeth ) is not baptism , nor any other external rite or ceremony , but such a thing , which is as contra-distinguishable against these , as against circumcision , or uncircumcision themselves , viz. faith which worketh by love ; and , the keeping of the commandments of god . nor doth an opposition made between faith , and gospel ordinances , any whit more set them together by the ears , then the evangelist john sets moses and christ ( who were and are , as good friends , as faith and gospel rites ) together by the ears , in making this opposition between them : for the law was given by moses : but grace and truth came by jesus christ . joh. . . or then john baptist set his baptism , and the baptism of christ , together by the ears , by opposing them thus : i indeed have baptized you with water : but he shall baptize you with the holy ghost and with fire . mar. . . he that saith , luther was of an active resolute , and tearing spirit , melancthon of a gentle and soft , doth not set these good friends together by the ears , but only shews wherein , notwithstanding their agreement as dear consorts and friends , they yet differed the one from the other . there are no two things in the world , but differ in something the one from the other : and consequently may in respect hereof , be opposed the one unto the other . yea though baptism ( i mean a submitting unto baptism ) be the keeping of a commandment of god ; yet may it regularly enough be opposed to the keeping of the commandments of god , as one man may be opposed unto many , or the setting of a mans foot out of his door , to the performance of a long journey . but these things are ( i suppose ) a little out of my anti-querist his element . . whereas he demands ; why doth the querist make circumcision a gospel rite , which is indeed a rite abolished by the gospel ? i may much more honestly demand , why doth the anti-querist lay to the querist charge a thing which he knoweth not , no nor yet the words of his querie ? for though he should say ( which yet he doth not , the anti-querist making too bold here , as too frequently elsewhere , to mis-recite his words , as the reader may readily observe by comparing the original all along with the transcript ) that under the gospel circumcision by a synechdoche speciei is put for all external rites and ceremonies , yet doth not such a saying as this necessarily suppose , or imply , circumcision to be a gospel rite . for rites , or ceremonies , being of two kinds , some of divine , others of humane institution , the apostle may by the sayd figure synechdoche , mention only circumcision , in stead of all other divine rites , without supposing it to be a gospel rite , inasmuch as there were far more rites of divine institution under the law , then there are under the gospel . his following words , and if for all kind , then certainly for gospel rites and ceremonies ; for they are some of all , have neither goodness of sence in them , nor pertinency to his business in hand . for what though circumcision be put for all kinds of rites [ of divine institution ] and consequently , for gospel rites also , yet doth it follow from hence , that it self must needs be a gospel rite ? by what principle in reason is this consequence formed ? supposing there are two sorts of men in the world , rich , and poor , and i , having occasion to speak of men in general , should , to give some light to my discourse , instance in john , thomas , or james , i should not by my instancing iohn ( for example ) in this case , suppose him to be determinately either a rich man , or a poor . but these things ( i confess ) are scarce worth the examining , excepting only that me thinks i perceive my anti-querist in a little extasie of contentment , by vertue of a conceit he hath that i have so ill behaved my self in the passage in hand , that he can make large earnings by descanting upon it . and i would wilingly awaken him out of his extasie . for certain i am , that there is nothing in the query , rightly understood , but is exception-proof . and the truth is , that all things in his answer to this query from first to last , duly considered , together with that his contentment mentioned , there seems to be a mixture of a kind of discontent against the apostle for opposing faith , the new creature , keeping the commandments of god , unto circumcision , and not baptism rather . for if it had been written thus ; in christ jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but baptism which is by dipping , or plunging into water , i beleeve he would have been as hard or heavy to be born , as an hand maid that is heir to her mistris : prov. . . and i understand that a great doctor of that way , taking occasion not long since to open the said passage of the apostle to his people , made speciall treasure of this observation from it , that although the apostle saith , that in christ iesus circumcision availeth nothing , yet he doth not say that baptism availeth nothing . if he had understood the apostle ( a trouble of mind not much incident to th●● generation ) he must needs have known , that however the apostle did not in so many words say , that baptism availeth nothing , yet constructively and in pregnancie and neer-handedness of consequence , he said every whit as much , yea and somewhat more too . for by shuting out circumcision instance-wise , together with uncircumcision , and letting in onely faith , the new creature , the keeping the commands of god , it is a plain case that together with circumcision he excluded baptism also , yea and all other ceremoniall practications whatsoever . but such an observation as that now specified , is a competent instance , or example , whereby to estimate how unworthily the scriptures are commonly handled in those congregations . but , . my anti-querist greatneth the pile of his former impertinencies by heaping all these words upon it : neither surely would any man ( much less the querist ) be so impertinent , as to assert no externall rite availeable under the gospel , because circumcision is not , unless he held circumcision to be as much a gospel rite , as any other ; since it is against common sence to say , that which is greater is not available to such or such an end , because that which is less is not ; and yet more irrationall would it be to assert the non-availeableness of that which is , from the non-availeableness of that which is not : which yet would be the trip of the querist , if he should not think that circumcision had some manner of institutive being , yea as eminent a being under the gospel , as any other rite of the gospel hath . hereunto add we this vaine-glorious vapour in the following paragraph : truly i cannot but think that cause hard bested , that is fain to beg its bread out of such desolate places as is that of circumcision for one , whose foundation was long since rased by the hand of the gospel to the very ground . the long thread of all this discourse is spun of tow that hath touched the fire . the basis and ground work of the whole fabrick hath been already , rased to the very ground . for my friend al along supposeth , . that i make the best and most conscientious observation of gospel rites , of no acceptation at all with god . . that i argue that comparative non-availableness of gospel rites , which i assert and hold , from the non-availableness of circumcision simply considered . against both these i have sufficiently explained my self already , and likewise vindicated the words of the queree from any intimation or supposition of either . touching the former , i shall add nothing to the premises relating thereunto . for the latter , i have likewise shewed in as plain english as i know how to write , that neither do i , nor the queree , argue the comparative non-availableness of baptism , which the queree onely asserteth ( as the anti-querist himself yeildeth , as we formerly heard ) from the non-availableness of circumcision simply considered ( this we have formerly shewed to be a palpable mistake ) but from circumcision considered in that opposition , which the apostle maketh ( in the scripture before us ) between it , and faith ; and again , between it , and the new creature . from this opposition it evidently appeareth , that the apostle by excluding circumcision ( with uncircumcision ) from that availableness with god , which he solely ascribes unto faith , the new creature and the keeping the commandments of god , intended together with circumcision , to exclude all ceremoniall observances , as well those of the gospel , as those of the law . this considered , it had been more honour for the anti-querist to have kept himself as free from the charge , as the querist is from the crime or trip , of reasoning at any such rate of non-sence , at this : because that which is less , is not available to such , or such as end ; therefore neither is that which is greater available hereunto : or again , because that which is not , is not available ; therefore neither is that which is . how can i but think that my friend dreamt waking , when such reasonings as these , presented themselves to his imagination , as the arguing of his friend the querist ? either he complements profoundly in his private address by letter unto him , wherein he pretends to give him the right hand of himself in abilities to manage a discourse ; or else he renders himself weak indeed in such affairs , by making himself an underling in abilities to a man , the tenour and strain of whose reasonings is so far beneath the line of the most irrationall of men . by this time we suppose that the vapour also mentioned is wholly vanished into the ayre . the cause he speaks of , cannot well , at least needs not , beg the bread of it's support out of desolate places ; there being very few places , especially in the new testament , but which yeild this bread plentifully . a taste hereof is given in the premised considerations . but concerning the place , which he calls desolate , it hath been proved over and over , that there groweth a strong staff of bread for the support of the cause depending , in the very midst of it . . and lastly , whereas he demands ; but why also doth the querist oppose the rites and ceremonies of the gospel , or under the gospel , to the keeping the commands of god , &c. he should rather have demanded a reason why the apostle doth it . but whether it be the apostle , or the querist , or both , who makes this opposition , a plain reason hath been given of it , and the sense declared wherein this opposition is to be understood . yea i suppose the anti-querist himself can hardly be so enormously extravagant in his opinion or notion about baptism , as not to judg but that an habituall and constant course of obedience to the rest of the commandements of god , doth much more highly commend a person unto god , then one single act of an externall submission unto baptism . if so , then is there a manifest ground for an opposition between baptism , and a keeping of the commandments of god , yea though a subjection unto baptism be supposed to be an act of keeping one of these commandments , yea and available also , to a degree , for a commending of men unto god . for as little may very regularly be opposed unto much , and so , less , unto more ; so may that which is less acceptable unto god , be very properly , and according to the strictest rules of opposition , be opposed unto that which is more . neither is there so much as a face , or the lightest appearance of a contra-diction , between denying the observation of the ceremonies of the gospel to be available ( comparatively ) to any mans acceptation with god , and an affirming that a keeping the commands of god is highly available to such a purpose . but enough of this with a surplussage , formerly . thus we see plainly , and without a parable , that no answer hath as yet been given by the anti-querist to the two first queries , unless by answer we understand any thing which he that makes it is pleased so to cal . nor is it any disparagement to any mans abilities or worth , that he isnot able to make an egg stand end-ways upon a smooth table , without cracking it , though such an undertaking may ( i confess ) somewhat reflect upon him . my friend ( my anti-querist ) hath susteyned no loss at all in my esteem of his parts and abilities , by drawing up so insufficient an answer to the queries , as he hath don . for i well know and consider how far a mistaken province will oppress , abuse , and belye any mans learning , knowledg , parts , and abilities whatsoever . i suppose there is no need of any further ingagement of mine against the said answer ; the first fruits being polluted , the whole lump is hereby sufficiently proved to be unclean . only i shall take notice from his answer to the fourth query , how impertinently he citeth ( and upon no better account , vindicateth ) this of the apostle . ( tim. . . ) let as many servants as are under the yoke , count their own masters worthy of all honour , to overthrow this assertion of his querist , that this particle , as many as , in such constructions as those rom. . . and gal. . is always partitive . when the apostle ( saith he ) saith , let as many servants , as are under the yoke , count , &c. doth he thereby suppose , or imply , that there were some servants that were not under the yoke , or who were not to count their masters worthy all honour ? yes ( my good friend ) the apostle doth here suppose that there were some servants not under such a yoke as that , whereof he here speaks ; as is most evident from the opposition which he makes in the very nex words , verse . . speaking of servants of another kind ; but those who have beleeving masters , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , let them not despise them , &c. and the best expositors generally acknowledg and give notice of a distribution or partition of servants into two kinds , in this context of scripture ; yet not into two such kinds neither , as my antiquerist notioneth in his objection , which he so favorably frameth against himself , that he may plaufibly ( at least ) answer it . servants are not here distributed into beleeving , and unbeleeving ; but into such who are under the yoke , [ viz. of unbeleeving masters ] and such , who are free from this yoke , as being servants to masters , who beleeve . both the one and the other kind of servants are plainly enough supposed by the apostle to be beleevers . nor was it his manner in any of his epistles , to give directions about the carriage or behavior of infidels , or to prescribe matters of duty unto them . how impertinent then is that which he pretends in the answer , which he draweth up to his own objection , viz. that these expressions , as many as , used . rom. . . gal. . . intentionally only respect those at rome ( and so in galatia ) who did beleeve , and were baptized , and therefore are partitive in respect of others the inhabitants of those places , dividing those of these churches from others dwelling in the same places , &c. for what can be more evident then that the apostle by the particle , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as manyas , in the scriptures before us , did not intend to divide the beleeving members of the churches of rome & galatia , from the unbeleeving party of men in these places , but only beleevers themselves amongst themselves , the baptized , from the un-baptized ; considering that in the former of the said places , he expresseth himself thus ; know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ , &c. and in the latter , thus : for as many of yov as have been baptized , & c ? is it worthy any mans belief , that paul writing thus to the beleeving members of the church at rome , know ye not that so many of us that were baptized , &c. should either in the pronoun , us include nero , with all the rabble of pagan idolater in rome , as if he wrot to these , as well as to the saints or that he intended to signifie unto them , that himself was one of those , who dwelt in rome ? or is not his meaning in saying so many of us as , &c. clearly this , that as many of us saints , or of us beleevers , who have been baptized ? for in what other consideration , rel●●ion , or respect , he should make himself one of them , is not easie to imagin . evident it is from chap. . . . that he was no dweller in rome , at the time of writing this epistle , nor had been any time before . so likewise when he writes to the churches , and members of the churches of galatia , thus ; for as many of yov as have been baptized , &c. can his meaning be , as many of you who dwell in galatia , as have been baptized ? or doth not such a sence as this plainly imply , that he wrote his epistle aswel to the infidels in the countries of galatia , as to the members of the christian churches there ? therefore ( questionless ) the apostles meaning in the words before us , is plainly and directly this : as many of you , who being members of the churches of galatia , have been baptized into christ , have put on christ : and consequently the particle {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as many as , is not partitive of the beleevers in the places mentioned , from the rest of unbeleeving inhabitants there , but of beleevers amongst themselves , those that had been baptized , from those who were at present unbaptized , in either place respectively . this to be the express sence of the two passages mentioned might be further evidenced by the light of sundry considerations , but that we judge the premises already levied sufficient to establish that conclusion . it being then so clear a case , that there were some members of churches in the apostles days , who were unbaptized , at least for a time , it undenyably follows , that baptism is no constitutor of churches ; as the beloved notion of my anti-querist beareth . concerning that copweb-piece , stiled by the author , some baptismal abuses briefly discovered , wherewith some silly flies ( as i understand ) have been intangled and catched , there is a besome preparing for the brushing away of that also from the temple of god , so far as it is catching , and hath not been dismantled by the contents of these papers . for the tail of it , wherein the sting , and the worst of the poyson lies , hath been cut off and swept away hereby . the anatomy of ana-baptism . ana-baptism , is , by the modern architects of it , built upon foundations , or grounds of three sorts . some . true , but not pertinent . . fals , and therefore not pertinent . . conjecturall onely , and therefore very little pertinent . . of the first sort are . all those texts of scripture , on which they mis-ground , first their opinion , and then their practictise . as , mat. . . mar. . . act. . , . act. . . rom. . , . coloss. . . heb. . . ( possibly with some others ) these are true grounds of doctrines , and practises corresponding ; but are irrelative to the doctrine and practise of ana-baptism . . of this sort also , are these , and some other like tenents upon which they build their said fabrick . . that in the scripture there is no particular or expresse , either precept , or example , for infant-baptism . . that no ordinance of christ , can be neglected , or omitted , without sin . this rightly understood , and with due limitation , is a truth also : but thus understood , it reacheth not their practise . . of the second sort are these , . that in case infants were not baptized in the dayes of iohn the baptist , nor of christ , nor of his apostles , then ought not baptism to be administred unto infants now . . that circumcision was neither sign nor seal of the righteousness of faith , or of the covenant of grace , but unto the person of abraham onely . . that baptism it self is no seal of the covenant of grace unto any person whatsoever , but a sign onely . . that an administration of baptism made to professing beleevers , doth more conduce unto , and better answer the ends of baptism , then that which is made to infants . . that infant-baptism is disagreeable to the ministration of the new testament . . that none ought to be baptized but such who [ in their own person ] appear voluntarily willing to be baptized in obedience unto god . . that infant-baptism is a nullitie . . that infant-church-member-ship was a leviticall ceremonie , and abolished ( with the rest of the legall ceremonies ) by christ in the gospell . . that a profession of faith , whether reall , or feigned , is a more warrantable ground , whereon to administer baptism , then an estate in grace , though attested by god himself . . that any person un-baptized , may , without special commission from god , and without proof-making of such a commission , administer baptism ; and that such a mans administration ( together with all the administrations lineally descending from it ) is the institution of christ . . that any person whatsoever pretending to beleeve , and to have been baptized , whether invested into any office , or not , may as lawfully administer baptism , as he that is an officer in a church . . that not simply baptism , but the administration of baptism to beleevers onely , is an ordinance of christ properly so called . . that there can be no warrantable ground for the administration of an ordinance to such or such a subject , or after such or such a manner , but either a particular and express precept for , or example of , the one , and the other . . that there ought to be a resemblance , or similitude , between the sign , and the thing signified [ as there is between the bush , and the wine in the vintners celler ; and was between the streight pole on which the brazen serpent was lift up , and the cross timber , on which the lord christ was crucified ; and again between the rain-bow , and the safty of the earth from drowning , between circumcision , and the covenant which god made with abraham , and his seed . ] . that the baptizing of infants is unlawful , because it is not a ordinance of christ . . that obedience to external rites , ordinances and institutions , is to be preferred before obedience to the law of nature , or to the precepts of the moral law . . that no circumstance mentioned in the tenour of an institution , or observed in the first administration thereof , can without sin either be omitted , or varied , in after administrations , upon any occasion or consideration whatsoever . . that persons baptized after the new mode of dipping , though void of saving grace , and strangers unto holiness , are notwithstanding , by vertue of such their baptism , rendered visible saints ; whereas others not so baptized , are invisible , notwithstanding the greatest exemplariness of saint-ship in the whole course of their lives , and conversations otherwise . . that children under the gospel are more unworthy , more unmeet , less capable , subjects of baptism , then they were of circumcision under the law . . that it was better , and more edifying unto men to receive the initiating or first sacramental pledg of gods fatherly love and care , in the time of their infancy , under the law ; and that now under the gospel , it is worse , and less edifying unto them to receive it at the same time , and better and more edifying to receive it afterwards , viz. when they come to years of discretion . . that the jews , who beleeved in christ , and so came under the gospel administration , were , in respect of their children , in a worse condition , then they had been in under the law : and that such of the gentiles , who were by faith engrafted into their olive , did , in their children , partake less of the root and fatness thereof , then the iews themselves , before the coming of christ in the flesh , had done : and consequently , that god was much more indulgent unto children , yea and unto parents in reference to their children , under the law , then he is under the gospel . . that parents may dis-interess their children of church priviledges , by their apostacy or unbelief ; but cannot restore them hereunto by their repentance , or beleeving . that such iews , who , together with there children , were church-members , before their coming in by faith unto christ , by this coming in to christ , bereaved their children of this priviledg without any recompence . of the third ( and last ) sort are these . . that there was no child in any of those families or housholds , which are recorded in the new testament to have been baptized . . that no infant or child was baptized in the days of iohn the baptist , or of christ , or of the apostles . . that all , and every the respective members of all and every the respective churches in the apostles days , were baptized . . that the eunuch baptized by philip . act. . and those gentiles commanded by peter to be baptized , act. . were baptized by a total immersion of their bodies under water by those , who baptized them . . that persons , who from their infancy , or first capacity of making any profession of religion at all , have publiquely and constantly professed the name and faith of christ in the world , ought to be baptized into this profession after ten , twenty , forty years spent and passed in this profession . . that infant-baptism was first brought into the christian church after the days of the apostles . . that baptism ought aswel to be administred , yea and urged and imposed , in a place , city or country , where the gospel hath flourished for an hundred years together , or more , as at , or about the time , when ( through the providence of god ) it first came in the ministry of it , unto this place . of these three kinds of arguments or grounds ( as they have been now represented ) that the first are impertinent ( as to the justification of ana-baptism ) the second , erroneous ; the third and last , conjectural only , i am all thoughts made ; and shall , god sparing me health and life , and more material occasions not intervening , give an account of my faith herein in due time . finis . errata . pag. . l. . read , operatio . pag. . l. . r. actuall . pag. . l. . r. separate . pag. . l. . for muck r. smoak . pag. . l. . r. should have . pag. . l. . r. baptism . pag. . l. . r. or the cup . pag. . l. . r. much more . pag. . l. . r. or at least . pag. . l. . for , two r. to . pag. . l. ult , r. whether . pag. . l. . r. admitted . pag. . l. . r. other . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- fides cum haeretic●s non est servanda . notes for div a e- * by son of man here , is not meant christ ( personally considered , ) but any person of mankind . see hugo grotius upon the place , who giveth a sufficient account of this exposition . * eos quoque asserit diabolico ut● spiritu , qui separant ecclesiam dei : ut omnium temporum haereticos & schismaticos comprehenderet , quibus indulgentiam negat , quod omne peccatum [ aliud ] est circa singulus , hoc in universos . soli enim sunt qui volunt solvire christi gratiam , qui eccleslae membra discerpunt , propter quam passus est dominus , spiritusque , sanctus datus est nobis . ambr. de poenitentia . lib. . c. . † treatise entituled , of baptism , ( p. . ) generally presumed written by mr lawrence . see rom. ● . . cor. . . cor. . . ephes. . . phil. . . col. ● . . . cor. . . thes. . * mr fisher . baby-baptism , p. . act. . ● . the doctrine of baptism is numbred as mongst the foundations of christ ( i.e. such principles or doctrines , as were usually first taught and learned by yong scholars in christianity , as being easie of perception ) but this proveth not the actual reception of the rite of any baptism , one or other , is essential to the making a man a true member of christ , nor yet of a church of christ , any whit mo●e ( if so much ) then a cordial beleif of that far greater foundation ( of the two ) the resurrection of the dead . * this commission cannot be thought to obliege , or impower , ordinary pastors or teachers ; because they were not to go and teach all nations ; but to watch over those particular flocks , over which the holy ghost maketh them overseers , acts . . pet. . . a those words dan. . . but go thou thy way til the end be , for thou shalt rest & stand up in thy lot at the end of the days , are commonly understood in a sence of much affinity hereunto . a the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is commonly rendred , sect. see act. . . act. . . act. . . . act. . . act. . . a mat. . . & . . b luk. . . & . act. . c psal. . . d kin. . , * luke , ● , mat , . a gal. . b gal. . . a exod. . first argument against lawfullness of communion with undipt churches , answered . second argument answered . the third argument ans●ered . fourth ( and last ) argument against the lawfulness of communion with churches undipt , answered . notes for div a e- seneca . a luk. , , , . * gal. . . . , &c. the answer to the second query , examined . spiritual songs being the marrow of scripture in songs of praise to almighty god from the old and new testament : with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions as now practised in several congregations in and about london : with a table of contents / by benjamin keach, author of the war with the devil. keach, benjamin, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) spiritual songs being the marrow of scripture in songs of praise to almighty god from the old and new testament : with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions as now practised in several congregations in and about london : with a table of contents / by benjamin keach, author of the war with the devil. keach, benjamin, - . the second edition. [ ], p. printed for john marshal ..., london : . contains texts only. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hymns, english -- early works to . baptists -- england -- hymns. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - simon charles sampled and proofread - simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion spiritual songs : being the marrow of the scripture , in songs of praise to almighty god ; from the old and new testament . with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions : as now practised in several congregations in and about london . the second edition ; with a table of contents . by benjamin keach , author of the war with the devil . eph. v. . col . iii. . london : printed for john marshal , at the bible in grace-church-street . . where you may be supplied with most of the author's works . a table of contents of the songs . moses's song page the second part isaiah's song isaiah's joyful song the song of zacharias the song of the blessed virgin the song of simeon the song of the lamb part of hannahs song the song of the lamb a song of praise for the discovery of the plot of the hymns . the eternity of god the immensity of god on the omniscience of god the great wisdom of god god's piercing eyes the power of god god's mercy shining the covenant & faithfulness of god on god's sovereignity god's glorious bounty abounding mercy of god in christ the patience of god another on god's patience on the birth of christ the second part th psalm tune on the deity of christ on christ's suretiship ibid. of christs divine love cant. . the churches spiknard he 's white & ruddy deliverance from the pit christ at the sinners door all glory to god and the lamb god's glory display'd the soul rent , or glory shining on the great salvation of the gospel look unto jesus the joy of believers christ exalted christ's glory the saint indeed at administration of baptism the drooping spirit revived evil thoughts abhor'd the backslider healed ephraim mixed among the people the good samaritan the voice of the turtle — buy of me a bleeding christ & bleeding heart salvation great and glorious the tender hearts triumph the broken and contrite heart ibid righteousness of christ glorious christ's peny or the laborours hire the blessed death of the saints the happy death of the godly a hymn on psalm . , . salvation shining the saints holy triumph the power of god's word boundless mercy a call to obedience spiritual joy encreasing christ our glorious shepheard . truth in its primitive purity . the spiritual bridegroom god's temple plants . christ's vine-yard the noble vine redeeming love spiritual food ibid. the honour of christ's servants christ the saints strength and guide hope for believers the joy of believers ibid. christ's green pastures the fulness of christ to praise god becomes the upright the ax lifted up a hymn of praise treasure in earthen vessels grace abounding hell in a rage . jacob's ladder a type of christ the wonder of pardoning grace the unwearied saint god's court , or , glory near god pardons , guids , and leads a call to young-men ibid. unity of saints infinite mercy shining the joy of repenting tears the saints triumph in christ christ a believer's all go forth by the foot-steps of the flock my beloved is mine . a hymn of praise for the new birth a preparation hymn ibid. saints happy at death saints the salt of the earth — he 's altogether lovely . the rose of sharon . a hymn on cant. . . desert places rejoyce a ransom found on the resurrection &c. a hymn of praise on the answer of prayers another a sacred hymn on sanctification . several scripture songs taken out of the old and new-testament . with some other spiritual songs ; &c. moses's song , on exod. . i to the lord , will sing , triumph in him also ; the horses and the riders he into the sea did throw . jehovah is my song , and my salvation ; my god , for whom i will prepare an habitation : my father's god was he , whose glory i 'll proclaim , jehovah is a man of war , jehovah is his name . proud pharoah , and his host , into the sea are cast , and his great captains drowned be , as through the sea they past . they down to th' bottom sank , ev'n like unto a stone ; jehovah thy right hand in pow'r , most glorious is become : thy right hand hath destroy'd those that against thee rose ; and in thy glorious excellency , thou hast o'erthrown thy foes . the second part. thou didst send forth thy wrath , like stubble them to waste , lord , thou didst blow , and the proud waves , o'erwhelm'd them with a blast . the sea stood up in heaps for israel , ( on each side ) the enemy said , i will pursue , i will the spoil divide ? my lust i will fulfill , my sword draw out will i ? my hand shall now cut them all off , and ruin utterly ? thou with thy wind didst blow , and they were covered , they in the mighty waters sunk , as if they had been lead . lord , who is like to thee , in holiness glor'us , fearful in praise , and also doth things that are marvellous . a prophetical part of moses's song , deut. . give ear , o heavens , i will speak , and let also the earth , hear the good words of my own mouth , which now i shall bring forth , my doctrin like the rain shall drop , my speech distil shall as the dew does on the tender herbs , and showers on the grass . because that i jehovahs name will publish and make known ; i will ascribe greatness to god , yea , and to him alone . he is the rock , and perfect too his ways and judgments be ; a god of truth , and without sin , both just and right is he . because their rock unto our rock is not to be compar'd ; yea , though our enemies themselves , as judges should be heard : vengeance is mine , i will repay , in time their feet shall slide , their dreadful day it does draw near , and woe shall them betide . because the lord his saints shall judg , and for them he 'll repent , when none shut up , or lift he sees , when all their powers's spent . then sing ye nations with his saints , revenge their blood will he , and render vengeance to his foes , but kind to his saints be . the song of the prophet isaiah . chap. . i to my well-beloved , now , and of his vine-yard ( will sing a sweet song ) which he has set , upon a fruitful hill ; he fenced it , and gather'd out the stones that did offend , he planted it with choicest vine , and it he did defend : a tower in the midst he built , and made a wine-press too , and lookt that it should bring forth fruit , his glory great to show ; but it brought forth wild grapes : alass ! to thee , jerusalem , and judah also i 'll appeal , and to all thinking men ; 'twixt me and my vine-yard to judge ; what further do could i unto my vine-yard ? when i loo'kt , no fruit could i espy : instead of grapes , it did bring forth wild grapes : o then go to , unto my vine-yard , i 'll declare what 't is that i will do . i 'll take away the hedge thereof , my anger shall be shown , eat up it shall , and it 's strong wall shall quite be overthrown ; and i will lay it waste , and it not dig , nor prune again ; but there shall come bryers and thorns , and on it fall no rain . for the house of israel , and the men of judah be the pleasant vine-yard of the lord ; but when he lookt to see judgment and true justice done , oppression did espy ; and when he look'd for righteousness , behold ! a bitter cry. isaiah's joyful song . isa . . jehovah i will give thee praise , this is the very day , for thou dost sweetly comfort me , thine anger 's turn'd away : behold thou my salvation art , i will not be afraid , jehovah is my strength and song , my trust and saving aid : therefore with gladness i will draw water out of the wells of salvation ( for they be thy people israels . and in that day shall ye all say , praise the lord , on his name not only call , but for his acts lift up his glor'us fame . sing ye unto the lord , for he most excellent things has done ; and this throughout the earth also , is now most fully known . cry out , and shout , and joyful be , all that in sion dwell ; for great the holy one's in thee , o happy israel ! the song of zacharias . let israel's great god and king eternally be bless'd , whose come from heav'n to visit us , and see our bonds , releas'd . in davids house a saviour's rais'd , to sit upon his throne ; this ever since the world began , his prophets have foreshown . that he would save us from the pow'r and malice of our foes ; the mercy to perform to them , which he of old had chose . he call'd to mind how he engag'd his truth , by covenant , his solemn oath to abraham sworn , that he his grace would grant to serve him without fear ; from all our adversaries freed ; and to continue all our days , a holy life to lead . by the remission of our sins , to make salvation known , to all his people every where , his tender mercy 's shown . the day-star from on high is rose , and those who also sit in darkness , he in the right way of peace will guide their feet . the song of the blessed virgin. luke . . my soul does magnify the lord , my spirit does rejoyce in god , my saviour , who deserv'st the praise of heart and voice . for his poor hand-maid he regards , whose mind was sore deprest ; and all ages from hence forth shall call me most truly blest . he that is great hath wonders done , and holy is his name ; his mercies hath for ever been to his saints , still the same . he with his strength hath pulled down the mighty from their seat ; and them of low and base degree , are rais'd to honour great . he fill'd the hungry soul , with good , the rich empty remain'd ; his mercy he has call'd to mind , his people help have gain'd . the promise to our fathers made , in the which he long stood , engag'd to abraham and his seed , he hath at last made good . the song of simeon , luke , . . now let thy servant , lord , depart in peace , to quiet rest , since i have thy salvation seen , and with the same am blest : the prophecies are now fulfill'd , thy promises are true ; and thy mysterious love 's disclos'd , in all thy peoples view . a light to lighten the dark earth , now this bright sun appears , the gentiles shall enlighten'd be , sweet comforts shall them cheer . well may the long expected sight , make israel's joy abound ; before with special favours grac'd , but now with glory crown'd . the song of the lamb out of the revelations all ye that serve the lord , his name see that ye celebrate ; and yet that fear him sing aloud his praise both small and great . rev. . . o thou great ruler of the world , thy works our wonder raise , thou blessed king of saints , how true and righteous are thy ways , rev. . . who would not fear and praise thy name , thou only holy one : the world will worship thee , to whom thy judgments are made known . most holy , holy , holy lord , almighty is thy name , which was before all time , and is , and shall be still the same . ch . . . . all glory , pow'r , and honour , thou art worthy to receive ; for all things by thy pow'r were made , and by thy pleasure live . cha . . . to thee , of right , o lamb of god , riches and pow'r belong ; wisdom and honour , glory , strength , and every praising song . thou as our sacrifice was slain , and by thy precious blood , from every tongue and nation hast redeem'd us unto god. blessing and honour , glory , pow'r , by all in earth and heaven , to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb be given . part of hannahs song , sam. . [ as th psalm . ] my heart doth in jehovah joy , my horn in jah is lift on high ; my mouth 's inlarged o'er my foes , in thy salvation joy will i. there 's none so holy as the lord , no , no , there is none beside thee of other rocks , there is not one ; that to our god compar'd may be . talk ye no more so proudly then , let not arrogancy once proceed out of your mouth , for god doth know , and 't is by him actions are weigh'd . the lord both poor and rich does make , he raiseth up and pulleth down ; thee poor he up from dust does take , and beggars from the dunghil crown . and sets them on a princely throne , in glorious power and dignity ; the pillars of the earth's the lords , the world is his , him glorifies . he keeps the feet of all his saints , preserves them so they shall not fail , the vile in darkness shall be still , for no man shall by strength prevail . the adversaries of the lord , shall broken be both great and small ; the lord from heaven thunder will , and in his wrath destroy them all , the lord shall reign most gloriously , unto the ends of all the earth : and his anointed horn exalt , therefore his highest praise sing forth . the song of the lamb. break out ye saints with joy and sing , to the eternal king ; the angels do blest tidings bring , hosannah in the highest . in bethlehem the babe is born , cease , cease , your bitter mourn , your sorrow now to singing turn , hosannah in the highest . he 's come , he 's come , o happy day ! dark shadows fly away , the substance 's come to christ i say , hosannah in the highest . see how the cherubs clap their wings , the glor'us host now sings ; th' eternal day , see how it springs ! hosannah in the highest . behold the lord baptiz'd by john , and what a glory shone ! the father says , this is my son ! hosannah in the highest . he 's come , he 's come down from above , full of eternal love ; and also sealed by the dove , hosannah in the highest . the dumb do speak , the blind do see , the dead they raised be ; and lepers cleans'd of leprosie , hosannah in the highest . he preaches with authority , god's kingdom doth draw nigh , and pardons all iniquity , hosannah in the highest . behold him now beset with grief , angels bring him relief , they him adore because he 's chief , hosannah in the highest . behold him in his agony , our sins on him did ly , god's justice he did satisfie , hosannah in the highest . behold him now upon the tree ; he cry'd in miserie , oh! why hast thou forsaken me ? hosannah in the highest . ah! hear him make most bitter moan , hearken to his last groan ; for now for us his life is gone , hosannah in the highest . the second part. the first day now it doth begin ; an end is put to sin , eternal righteousness brought in hosannah in the highest . the grave did ope thou didst arise , ye saints lift up your eyes , the morning 's come , all darkness flies , hosannah in the highest . infernal spirits cry and howl , their overthrow condole , for ever now their hopes are cool , hosannah in the highest . now , sin , death , devils and the grave , and th' world which did inslave , are all all o'ercome , and their death have , hosannah in the highest . behold how his sweet arms were spread , whilst his dear blood was shed , that sinners might be gathered , hosannah in the highest . our sins upon thee , lord , were laid , and all our debts hast paid ; of hell we need not be afraid , hosannah in the highest . god's dreadful wrath thou didst appease , guilty conscience to ease , and now canst save whom thou dost please , hosannah in the highest . the third part. christ will begin that work , which he knows must be wrought , if we eternal joys do ever see , hosannah in the highest . lord thou wilt perfect it also , for very well we know , without thee we can nothing do , hosannah in the highest . we that polluted once did ly in filth and misery , thou by thy blood dost purifie , hosannah in the highest . we once were cursed by god's law , dreading death , no help saw , from that sad state thou dost us draw , hosannah in the highest . all kind of sin thou dost pass by , where there 's sincerity , when unto thee , by faith , we fly , hosannah in the highest . from death to life , saints raised be , once bound , but now set free , and made one spirit , o lord , with thee , hosannah in the highest . the fourth part. o happy vnion ! ( is it done ? ) with the father and son , are we vnited and made one ? hosannah in the highest . adoption is a precious thing , made sons of th' mighty king , most precious joy from hence doth spring , hosannah in the highest . communion , lord , also with thee ; nay , with th' whole trinity , what higher blessings can there be ? hosannah in the highest . we at thy table sit and feed , and have what our souls need , and find thy blood , lord , drink indeed , hosannah in the highest . thou supst with us , and we with thee , a joyful sight to see ; sweet is the food and company , hosannah in the highest . thou sayest , thy beloved's mine ? ourselves , lord , we resign up unto thee ; for to be thine ; hosannah in the highest . the fifth part. thy righteousness , o lord , divine , imputed is to thine , by which they do most spotless shine ; hosannah in the highest . thou art the way to god to go , th'truth by which we him know , the life which does to thy saints flow , hosannah in the highest . by thee we justified be , and from sin are set free , and god accepts us all in thee , hosannah in the highest . thou art our prophet , priest , and king , a prophet that does bring such light from whence true joys do spring , hosannah in the highest . a priest that stands 'twixt god and men , who hast atton'd for sin . and hast us brought to god agen , hosannah in the highest . a king that rules o'er all above , and all that here do move ; he 's king of kings , yet full of love , hosannah in the highest . the sixth part. christ is our meat , our drink , our health , our peace , our strength , glory wealth , all things besides thee are but pelf , hosannah in the highest . our mediator surety . and advocate on high , thro' thee , god passes all sin by ; hosannah in the highest . our righteousness and wisdom too , redemption , from all woe , sanctification from thee does flow , hosannah in the highest . what shall i say ? or jesus call ? for he is all in all , and reign he shall o'er great and small , hosannah in the highest . he hath redeem'd us by his blood , when in our room he stood ; and made us priests , and kings , to god , hosannah in the highest . and we on earth with him shall reign ( when all his foes are slain ) for quickly now he 'll come again , hosannah in the highest . a song of praise for the marvellous deliverance of our sovereign king , william , with the church , and whole kingdom , from the hellish plot , discovered , feb. / no change of time shall ever shock our firm affections , lord to thee ; for thou hast always been a rock , a fortress and defence to me . our king preserved is , o god , by thy own hand and mighty pow'r ; thou shield'st him when he is abroad , at home to him a lasting tow'r . the chariot of the king of kings , or troops of mighty angels round , encompass him with rapid wings , and all his foes with shame confound . black thund'ring clouds most thick conspir'd , with threatning rage our face to veil , but at thy brightness soon retir'd : upon our foes falls fire and hail . the lord doth on our side engage , from heaven his throne our cause upheld , and snatch'd us from the furious rage of threatning waves that proudly swell'd ; god his resistless pow'r employ'd , our cruel foes attempts to break ; or else they might have soon destroy'd the best defence that we could make . and gods designs shall still succeed ; romes bloody sons can't stand the test , he 's a strong shield to all that need , and on his sure protection rest . who then deserv'st to be ador'd , but god , on whom our hopes depend , or who , except the mighty lord , can with resistless pow'r defend . o let th' eternal god be prais'd , the rock , on whose defence we rest o'er highest heav'ns his name be rais'd , who with salvation us hath bless'd ' therefore to celebrate his fame , our greatfull voices to heav'n we 'll raise , let nations round dread his great name , and all be taught to sing his praise . god to our king and nation sends ( tho' vile we be ) salvation sweet , deliv'rance to his saints extends , to praise his name therefore t is meet . hosannahs we to thee do owe , let all the nations worship thee , and thee adore , yea thee alone , the father of eternity . thy name in songs we will adore protect thy saints , and keep them pure ; to thee lets live for evermore , since from curst plots we are secure . a feast of fat things &c. containing , one hundred sacred hymns , &c. century . hymn . the eternity of the great god. in th' regions of eternal light , thou hast most holy god ; from everlasting in thy self , had thy own bless'd abode : before this world by thee was fram'd , or , earth's foundations laid ; or , the vast heavens were spread forth or any creature made . thou didst in glory , lord , abide ; thy being hadst alone , in thy own self , and none beside , was with the holy one. the eternity of thy great name , help us , lord , to adore : from everlasting thy dread fame shone , and shall evermore . thou happy wast in thy own self , and that in th' high'st degree ; to thy essential glory , lord , nothing can added be , thou need'st not us ; what canst thou have from any creatures hand ? yet to ascribe all praise to thee , is thy most just command . hymn . the immensity of god , the praise of the dread majesty of the great god above , with trembling heart i would sing forth , o with him fall in love ! but what am i ? poor sorry dust that i should god admire ! be silent then , and let 's give place unto the heavenly quire ! thousands , and ten thousands more of glorious angels , stand ' round thy high throne , and thee adore in songs at thy command . hosannahs they sing unto thee , o lord , continually . they worship and most perfect be ; but , ah! what , lord , am i ? a person of polluted lips ! how shall i then express the depth of thy immensity ? or thy infiniteness ? i from thy presence cannot go ; what place , alass ! is there to hide from thee ? for i do know , lord , thou art every where ! hymn . on the immensity and omniscience of god. thy knowledge , lord , is infinite , there 's nothing hid from thee ; thou seest i' th' dark as in the light , our thoughts before thee be . from sight of thy all-seeing eye , o whither can we go ! in all dark places thou dost pry , thine eyes walk to and fro . thro' the whole earth , where can we hide ? o! whither can we fly ? lord , from thy presence ; for thou art far off , and also nigh ! shall we to heaven mount alost , lo , thou art present there ? or , if we should go down to hell , ev'n there thou dost appear ? yea , should we take us morning wings and dwell beyond the sea , there would thy hand have hold on us , and quickly with us be ? nay , if we say , the darkness shall shroud us , lord , from thy sight , alass ! the thickest darkness is to thee , like to the light ? yea , darkness hideth not from thee , but night doth shine as day : let 's praise thee then both day and night , and sing to thee alway ! hymn . the wisdom of god great . we of thy wisdom will , o lord , not only speak but sing ; for 't is from hence that all true good to us , o lord , doth spring . thy wisdom and most sovereign grace most gloriously do shine ; let us see it with open face , and praise that name of thine . in thy own wisdom let 's be wise ; thy wisdom let 's adore , and trust in it , so shall we , lord , sing praise for evermore . thy wisdom is a mighty deep , which angels do admire ; creation-work demonstrates it , redemption rises higher . the wonder of thy wisdom , lord , and sublime rule likewise , t is o'er all things , and persons here , and marv'lous in our eyes . all wisdom saints and angels have , from thee it doth proceed ; and from thy wisdom we receive all good things we do need . of thy amazing wisdom then we 'll sing continually ; and unto thee , let foolish men for wisdom daily cry ! hymn . god's piercing eyes . ye saints remember god always , remember he is nigh ; nay , with us all in every place , and on us sets his eye . o lord , out of thy piercing sight there 's none of us can go ; thou seest in darkness as in light , and know'st all things we do . 't is thy most great and glorious name we should for ever fear ; and unto thee loud praise proclaim , when to thee we draw near . always let us , o lord , we pray , set thee before our eyes , and never grieve thy spirit , lord , by our iniquities . let 's have a reverent awe of thee , and always thee adore and worship in sincerity ; so sing for evermore . hymn . the power of god. who knows , lord , what thy power is , thou glorious art in might ; can ought be hard for thee to do , whose power 's infinite . thine arm of strength , most mighty king , both rocks and hearts doth break ; o god thou canst do every thing which thou dost undertake . o'er men and angels thou dost reign , all things thou dost uphold ; thou art the strength of all thy saints , thy power 's manifold . thou power hast for to create , redeeming pow'r's in thee ; thou soon canst too annihilate all things which we de see . none can before thy power stand , nor thy dread strength resist ; thy pleasure thou wilt do we know , yea , all things thou dost list . we of thy power therefore sing , and in thy might rejoyce ; to god our strength , our hope and trust , ; we will lift up our voice . hymn . god's mercy shining : or , the chanel of divine mercy over-flowing . we of thy mercy , lord , will sing , o it is infinite ! of all our joys it is the spring , let 's praise thee day and night : our miseries will have an end , but thy mercies abide from age to age , it does extend like to a swelling tide , that flows over all banks and bounds amazing to behold ; o'er all the world thy mercy sounds , o it is manifold ! but thy redeeming mercy , lord , we chiefly do admire ; christ is the chanel where it runs , to raise the wonder higher ! o mercy then ! mercy we need , thy pardoning mercy 's sweet ! preventing mercy does , in christ , with every mercy meet . sinners ! take hold of mercy then ! let saints mercy adore : and for thy mercy let all men sing praise for evermore . hymn . the covenant and faithfulness of god. o lord we will exalt thy name , and to thee we will sing ; thy eaithfulness we will proclaim , from whence our hopes does spring . we with our mouths will , lord , make known thy faithfulness always , o help us for to trust in it , and that too all our days ! thy covenant thou wilt hold fast . as thou hast sworn of old ; thy promises from first to last , fulfill'd shall we behold . the heavens they shall praise the lord , for wonders thou hast done ; and all thy saints , with one accord , shall praise thy name alone . thy loving kindness shall not fail ; nor shall thy faithfulness : o sing unto the lord , ye saints , and him for ever bless . hymn . a sacred hymn on god's sovereignty . thou lord who didst all creatures make , hast power to dispose of them , as seemeth good to thee : some therefore thou didst chuse unto eternal life and bliss ; and others didst pass-by : or didst them leave to their hearts lusts , and vile iniquity . if thou hadst left all adams race unto their evil way , and not have giv'n one soul thy grace , o who dur'st thee gain-say ! or have charg'd thee to be vnjust , since all deserv'd to die , 't is infinite grace that any be saved eternally . thou sendest thy sweet gospel light to this , and to that place , but dost to many lands deny the word of thine own grace : and some that hear it never feel its power on their heart ; all is as thou art pleas'd to act , and sovereign grace impart . we therefore lord exalt thy name , that with our eyes do see , since thou hast made the difference , all praise belongs to thee . hymn . god's glorious bounty : or , grace shining . thy love , o lord , is very great to such vile ones as we ; such who lay dead in trespasses , are quickened by thee : thy bounty to these souls of ours ; who can of it conceive : and those thou dost regenerate this bounty do receive . 't is they who are delivered from that forelorn estate , they once were in , when they lay dead ; whose souls , lord , did thee hate . 't is they whose souls united be unto thy self , o lord , and have communion too with thee , thou dost this grace afford . death can't dissolve this blessed knot , this union doth remain ; at death such do to jesus go , death unto them is gain . well may such say unto their souls , return unto your rest ! for they at death to glory go , and ly in thy sweet breast . their they do joyn with seraphims , in blessed harmony , to sing and celebrate thy praise unto eternity . hymn ii. abounding mercy of god in christ. is there no mercy in the lord ? sinners ! can you say so ? of mercy sing with one accord , mercy doth overflow ! the waters which are in the sea , and light that 's in the sun , are fewer than thy mercies are , to sinners quite undone . thy bowels yearn in thee to those who in their blood do ly ; if they believe thou wilt forgive all their iniquity : but some will not thy mercy have , they it do not desire ; in the right way , do it not crave ; nor after it enquire ! but you that see the chanel , where mercy doth sweetly run , exalt god's name , and sing his praise , until your lives are done . at death and in the judgment-day , god's mercy you shall find , if you do leave your evil ways and have a changed mind . redeeming mercy that is sweet , and pardoning mercy sure ; in christ all mercies joyn and meet , and evermore endure . hymn . the patience of god. what wrongs , great god , hast thou long born ? ( conceiv'd they cannot be ! ) by daring rebels , who provoke thee unto jealousie ! all evils done in every place , before thine eyes they are throughout the world ; and yet dostthou these foes protect , and spare . tho' for man's treason down he fell , by thy revenging hand ; yet he lifts up his bruised bones his maker to withstand ; and , though a feeble foe he be , whom thou like moths can crush , yet still against the bosses of thy bucklar he does rush . o what vile monsters are mankind ! thus given to rebel ! strange thou dost not , lord , smite the earth , and send them quick to hell ! man's sin for vengeance loudly crys , yet patience doth abound ; though justice crys , cut these trees down ! why cumber they the ground ? thy patience still sorbears , we see , o it is infinite ! therefore of it , we , lord , will sing , and praise thee day and night . hymn . another on god's patience . would man forbear to seek revenge on such a cursed foe , who strives to murther him each day , and work his overthrow ? but god waves all advantages of wrath , and vengeance too ; and , by amazing patience , doth daring man out-do ? the creature doth disdain his god , by whom he 's cloath'd and fed , yet god still spares this rebel worm , who by the devil 's led to fight against his sovereign with cruel spite and rage ; yet god doth still forbear with him , even from age to age. fools ask not where th' almighty is , but glory to him give : is not his being most fully prov'd in suffering thee to live ? was he not god , he could not bear such weights as on him ly ; weak mortals soon are set on fire , and for revenge do cry ! ! why should not patience make us sing , and god's great glory raise ? lord , let thy patience joyn with love towards me all my dayes ! hymn . on the birth of christ . awake my soul , awake my tongue , my glory ' wake and sing , and celebrate the holy birth , the birth of israels king ! o happy night that brought sorth light , which makes the blind to see ; the day spring from on high came down to cheer and visit thee . the careful shepheards with their flocks were watching for the morn , but better news from heav'n was brought ; your saviour is now born ! in bethlehem the infant lies , within a place obscure , your saviours come , o sing gods praise ! o sing his praise for ev'r . the second part , th psalm tune . heaven is come down to earth hither the angels fly , hark how the heavenly quire doth sing , glory to god on high ! blest news indeed , be glad ; simeon o'ercome with joy , sings with the infant in his arms , ; now let thy servant die ! wise-men behold the star , which was their stedfast guide , until it pointed forth the babe : let god be glorify'd ! heaven and earth rejoyce o lord ! and shall not i ? christ he is born ! sinners sing praise , for you he came to die ! hymn . a sacred hymn of the deity of christ . in thee , lord christ , we may thy father's glory see ; thou his brightness and glory art , the god-head dwells in thee . thou art a man , yet god , in thee both natures meet , that god and man thou mightst vnite in vnion great and sweet . thou must be man to die : sing praise , ye saints , sing praise ! christ must be god to satisfie ; his glory therefore raise ! such that behold thee , lord , the father also see ; and such a mediator 't did behove thee for to be . thou lay'st thy hands on both , and dost to each display most equally thy dearest love ; and therefore we must say , there 's none , lord , like to thee for in thy self does shine all glories which the father hath , most sacred and divine . hymn . on christ's suretiship . lord we 've run out , and wasted all our riches and our store ; and now our credit is quite gone thou wilt trust us no more : unless there is a surety found we must in prison ly , and bear thy dreadful wrath , o god , unto eternity . and therefore jesus thou didst send , no friend had we to bring ; all good from hence , we may perceive , doth from thy bowels spring , 't was from the worth and dignity which in christ's person lay , he did god's justice satisfie , and all our debts defray . o let men dread how they despise such sovereign grace and love , because mysterious in their eyes , and also far above depraved reason to conceive , that such who guilty be , should , by another's righteousness , from sin and guilt be free . all praise and glory unto god , and to the son whom we adore ; and to the holy-ghost likewise , be praise for evermore . hymn . a hymn of christs divine love , on cant. . come near , come nearer yet and move thy sweetest lips to mine ? for why , thy love , who art all love , excels the choicest wine ! like to an ointment poured out , is thy sweet name , and favour ; wise virgins compass thee about , for thy good ointments savour . o draw me with thy cords of love ! we will run after thee ; the king into his chambers hath in love conducted me . thy rays will make our faces shine , ; in thee we will rejoyce ; thy love is better far than vv ine ; thou art the vpright's choice ! but o thou , whom my soul doth love ! tell me , o tell me soon , where feeds thy flock ; where is the place thou mak'st them rest at noon ? why should i stray and lose my way ? till i at last do fall among thy fellows flocks ( as they themselves do proudly call. ) o fairest one ; if thou wouldst know where thou shouldst feed and ly , the foot-steps of the flock will show the way asuredly ? hymn . the churches spikenard , cantic . the st . sung at the lord's-supper . our king doth at his table sit , and i that love him well , will pour my spikenard on his feet , which gives a fragrant smell . my well-beloved is to me a bundle of sweet myrrh , and with me he 'll make his abode , and from me never stir . my well-beloved is to me , like to the choicest vvines ; like clusters of the camphire trees , amongst the fruitful vines . o blessed jesus thou art fair , my beauty is from thee ! nay , thou art fair beyond compare , and precious unto me ! let others on their dainties feed , and drink the richest vvine ; my feasts doth all their feasts exceed , when thou say'st i am thine . i therefore will commend him still , and sing unto his praise , he dy'd for me , therefore shall be my joy and song always . hymn . he 's white & reddy , sung at the sacrament . my hearts delight is red and white , the lilly and the rose : so sweet a grace adorns his face ten thousand he out-does ! was he all vvhite and was not red ? no sufferer for my sin ? my blood would rest on my own head and no joy have within ! but my dear lord is vvite and red , this mixture pleaseth me ; cause for my sins he suffered who from all sin was free ! what a reviving sight is this ? a righteous saviour ' s blood is th' bath of sin , the spring of bliss most pure , most sweet and good ! his god-head , and his government are infinite and pure ; his eyes are like the eyes of doves , most constant , so indure . his mouth is most exceeding sweet , he 's altogether so ; down from his head unto his feet all joys and comforts flow : o sing his praise for this is he my soul doth so admire ; this is my friend , if you would know , this is my hearts desire ! hymn . deliverance from the pit : or , a hymn of thanksgiving for gospel salvation . how great is this salvation , lord , which thou for us hast wrought , by jesus christ our dearest friend , who our poor souls hath bought . thou didst behold us when we lay polluted in our sin ; and to wash us found out a way to make us clean agin . we slaves of sin and satan were , and in strong bonds were bound ; and when we were near to the pit a ransom then was found : thy son out of thy bosome came , our souls to set quite free : all praise unto the blessed lamb , and equal praise to thee . of this salvation we will sing , and will with one accord praise thee , from whom all blessings spring ; ye saints praise ye the lord. thou sav'st our souls , o save this land , great things , lord , thou wilt do ; o haste , o lord , quickly appear , salvation-wonders show . our dust shall wake , our souls unite , and then our glory shine ; our happiness shall be compleat ; halelujah ; amen . hymn . christ at the sinners door : or , a song of praise on gospel salvation . we , lord , of thy salvation have a declaration had : o sinners know christ can you save ; rejoyce in him be glad . salvation is brought very near , your saviour also stands now , now , o soul , ev'n at thy door , o yield to his commands ! open to him , before his wrath is kindled in his heart , and he from you , with angry frowns , for ever doth depart . if it a little kindled be , o happy , happy he , thou holy one , who doth believe , and puts his trust in thee ye saints rejoyce , ye interest have in this salvation ; what is it you can further crave ? sing praise to th' holy one : salvation is wrought out for you , your god and christ adore , blessings of life do over-flow ; sing praise for evermore . rejoyce that ye accepted be in your eternal head , and quickn'd are , ( and vnion have ; ) who once in sin lay dead . hymn . all glory to god and the lamb : or , a hymn of thanksgiving for the great salvation of christ . now let us sing our saviour's praise , and spread his glory forth ; his honour wholly let us raise that shines through all the earth : who would not fear and praise thy name thou great and glorious one , the world shall worship thee , to whom thy grace and goodness's shown . all glory , pow'r , and honour , thou art worthy to receive , for all things , lord by the were made , and by thy pleasure live . to thee of right , o lamb of god , salvation doth belong , wisdom and praise , glory and strength , and every sacred song . 't is thou alone salvation wrought , by thine own arm 't was done , sing praise ye saints whom he hath bought , praise ye the holy one. blessing and honour , glory power , by all in earth and heaven to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb be given . hymn . gods glory display'd : or , a hymn of praise on the great salvation . what was thy end , o holy god , in our salvation ; but thy own glory ? therefore we will praise thee every one : shall man assume some part of it ? let him ashamed be ; all is of god , all is of grace , all glory be to thee . thou art the sacrificer , lord ; the sacrifice also ; 't is thou that dost sprinkle the blood , and all things else dost do . lift up ye saints , ( exalt on high ) your great redeemer , then he shall have the preheminence ; ye saints say all , amen . sinners , will you praise christ's great name , to whom all praise belongs , and celebrate his glorious fame with joy in holy songs ? of this salvation then take hold , and of it get a part ; then shall ye sing , and not till then , with grace in your own heart . hymn . the soul rent : or , glory shining . a hymn of praise on gospel salvation . all the seraphick train above are stooping down so low , to learn o' th' church that mystery past ages did not know : but now the vail is rent in twain , the mystery is vnfol'd , justice and mercy , reconcil'd we do herein behold . we now in gospel days may go into th' holy place , and in a bleeding jesvs see god's reconciled face . ye sinners then this saviour view , that for your sins was slain ; and this salvation slight no more , o look , view him again ! how can ye see him bleed , and still retain your cursed sin ? how can ye see him call to you and you will not come in ? o dearest jesus , if a taste of love be here so sweet , what will it be when we with thee , our dearest lord , shall meet ? o let us sing to him always , and him in truth adore , for the day 's near when we shall be with him for evermore . hymn . wonderous grace shining . a hymn of praise on the great salvation of the gospel . o glorious and most holy king , the mighty prince of peace , by thee alone , o holy one , from sin we have release ! o wond'rous love , yea , love indeed , that thou so great and high , who didst proceed from god , should bleed , and for poor sinners dye . the curse which was , o lord , our due thou also didst endure ; and in th' grave lay till the third day our freedom to procure . o depth , o length , o heigth of love , none may compare with thee , so low to lye that we so high at last might raised be ! shall sinners slight thy love , o lord , salvation not regard ? no sin like this so great it is , was ever known or heard . ye saints love you your saviour dear , sing forth his blessed praise ; o love him , and to him adhere , and serve him all your days . hymn . look unto jesus . a hymn of praise . look unto jesus , sinners look , if you 'd salvation have , who 's god , the saviour , and none else , ' 〈◊〉 only he can save . come let 's rejoyce with heart and voice before our heavenly king , tribute of praise let us always unto our saviour bring . before the wicked world and hell let us his glory bear ; lord manifest thy glorious name in wonders every where ! let sinners not neglect , o lord , salvation thou hast wrought ; for all that do thou wilt o'erthrow , to hell they shall be brought . o sinners look , and fall in love with jesus , him embrace ; with wonder now his glory view who 's full of grace and truth . ye saints and saved ones rejoyce , and halelujahs sing ; for you are his and he is yours , o praise your god and king ! hymn . the joy of believers , and the misery of gospel-neglecters . most free rich grace unmix'd and pure , the gospel does proclaim ; for which , o lord , we do thee praise and sing unto thy name . come saints and sinners also taste this water , milk , and wine , wine without dreggs that off the lees our saviour did refine . here 's pardon without wrath at all , white garments without stain ; a conscience purg'd we may have here , and ease that 's free from pain . we may have all if we receive the blessed lord of life ; but such who do reject this grace shall one day meet with strife . wrath will pursue such wretched souls , and they escape shall not ; but bring upon themselves sad woe , yea , an eternal blot . stand not then to dispute and die , free offered grace receive ; then good and thankful you shall be when once you do believe . and you will say , salvation's great , and the great lord adore ; and sing unto his holy name praises for evermore . hymn . christ exalted . a hymn of praise . love ye your lovely lord , ye saints , his praises also sing ; we will exalt thy name , o lord our god , and heavenly king : to him that angels do adore be glory , honour , fame ; 't is he that did salvation work , o sing unto his name ! to him that wash'd us in his blood , who lov'd poor sinners first ; to him that was made sin for us , and was for us accurst ; to him be glory and high praise , o worship at his feet ! in him god's attributes do shine ; in union also meet . who would not honour and admire , who would not thee adore ; who would not this saviour desire , and prostrate fall before ? come let us halelujah sing unto this mighty one ; let sinners bow unto this king who sits upon the throne ! hymn . christ glory . a hymn of praise on gospel salvation . sing praises unto god the lord , and call upon his name ; among the people all declare his works , and spread his fame . sing ye unto the lord , i say , ye sing unto him praise ; and talk of his salvation great , exalt your god always . in honour of his holy name rejoyce with one accord , and let the hearts also rejoyce of all that seek the lord. seek ye the lord , o seek the strength of his eternal might ; o seek his face continually in christ , for that is right ! lord thou to us salvation hath made known most graciously ; but such who do the same reject most wretchedly shall die ; wrath will break forth upon them all , that day is very near ; but all thy saints , when christ doth come , in glory shall appear . ye righteous then in god rejoyce , for you most happy be ; salvation great your portion is , and you the same shall see . hymn . the saint indeed . or , a hymn of praise for sanctification . ye that are holy and sincere lift up your hearts and voice , sing to the lord and do not fear , you cause have to rejoyce ! the fruit of christ's blest death in you most plainly does appear ; yea , that you are god's own elect , and do his image bear . you shall ascend god's holy hill who undefiled be ; and shall with him in glory dwell unto eternity . but as for you that have a name , but live as others do , you , you shall fall and perish all , god will you overthrow . when godly ones shall joy in bliss , and shall in triumph reign , you mourn shall in that deep abyss , god will your glory stain . o glorious lord , thy spirit then pour out upon us , so that we may live to thee on earth , and unto heaven go ! hymn . a sacred hymn on ephesians . , , . sung at the administration of holy baptism . to the one lord and father dear , who 's high , and above all , we will sing praise , and always fear , and on him ever call : and the one lord we will adore , and divine worship give , and sing his praise for evermore , by whom 't is we do live . to the one spirit , by whose pow'r all saints are born again , we will sing to , and every hour under his wings remain . in the one faith we will rejoyce , th' doctrin of faith is one ; and in that faith we 'll lift out voice and sing till life is gone . in christ's one babtism also let us establish'd be ; let these thy children find it sweet who now have obey'd thee : let such who for another plead , which is , lord , none of thine , ashamed be , and see the need of further light divine . in unity of thy one church let each of us abide , and find our comfort to be such which none meet with beside . hymn . the drooping spirit revived . come drooping saints , ye princely ones , why do your heads hang down ? tho' some do sall yet grace shall you with glory ever crown . christ bids you ever to rejoyce , again he says rejoyce , whatever sin or satan saith 't is your beloveds voice . why should you be discouraged , o heirs os special grace , for goodly is your heritage , and pleasant is your place ! what e'r discouragments you find , our christ can answer all ; his arms are ready to lift up when you are near to fall . you have had a sweet taste of god , he is to you most dear ; you feel the power of his word , be therefore of good chear ! hymn . evil thoughts abhorr'd : or , heart-purity thy power , lord , is very great , to change the thoughts of men ; if evil thoughts so hatful be , o let us loath them then ! lord , who can all his errors see ? o cleanse my heart within from evil thoughts ; and keep thou me from all presumptious sin ! o let not sin have power to reign in me at any time ; and so shall i be free from stain , and ' scape the greatest crime ! blessed , o blessed , are the pure , who pure are still in heart , that keep thy testimonies sure , and from all sin depart . they 're such that cause have to rejoyce , thy praises forth to sing ; and unto them new comforts shall from thee , lord , daily spring : they pardon'd are , and in thy love do evermore remain ; they born are also from above , and shall with jesus reign . hymm . the backslider healed : or , mercy for backsliders . believers now , what have you more , what have you more to do ; but to sing praise to god on high from whom your help doth flow ? lord thou art good , thy mercy 's great , thy promises most sure ; salvation 't is which thou hast wrought , christ's blood did it procure . exalt by faith your lord on high , through off your vnbelief ; and trust in christ continually , in whom is your relief : say there is hope , and we do come , we come , o lord , to thee ; for thou alone , lord , art our god ; thy name exalted be ! backsliders then return and sing , god will forgive you all ; and make you so firmly to stand that you shall never fall . hymn . ephraim mixed among the people . the pure in heart are thy delight o thou most holy one ! all they that do what things are right may sing thy praise alone . all mixtures , lord , in doctrin and practice , thou dost hate ; ourselves , therefore , with wicked men let 's not associate ! and so shall we , lord , with much joy our hearts lift up to thee ; and nothing shall our peace destroy whilst circumspect we be , let such that mingle not themselves thy praises therefore sing ; and to thy people let men join in faith , to praise our king. come out of babel then all ye , and be ye seperate ; depart all godly ones , and flee before it is too late ! o touch not the polluted thing , and god will own you then ; and drink you shall of his sweet spring ; thus sing , and say , amen . hymn . the good samaritan . sinners rejoyce who wounded be , your blest physician 's near ; his oyl will heal his wine will cheer , our sickness he did bear : 't is jesus praise that we will raise , and set his glory forth ; there 's none like thee , all saints do see , in heaven or on earth . thy blood 's our balm , who hither came to die upon the tree ! therefore , o lord , with one accord we will sing praise to thee . thou hast a salve for every sore ; didst dye that we might live therefore to thee continually all praises we will give . hymn . the voice of the turtle heard in our land. thy precious blood was shed , o lord , my soul to purge from sin ; which purchas'd grace my soul to change , when shall this work begin : in sinners hearts , o now impart , that grace that they may sing : o own thy word , most holy lord , our god , and gracious king ! the harmless turtle 's pleasant voice is heard , lord , in this place ; let fig-trees put forth their green figs , young converts deck with grace . arouse ! the summer will soon pass , your day of grace will end ; o come to christ , whilst he doth call , and does his love commend ! see how the saints do bud in grace , what gracious fruits abound , upon this liberty for all to hear the joyful sound : arise , you who yet sleep in sin , make hast to come and live ; so shall you sing and joyful be , and honour to christ give . hymn . — buy of me . come buy of thee ? lord let us see what 't is that thou dost sell ! the pearl of price and paradice , o lord what tongue can tell what their worth are ! what fool is there who doth refuse to buy ? a bargain 's here ! and 't will appear so to eternity . this pearl excells the rich beryl , the onyx and the sapphire ; rubies so rare can't with 't compare , no , nor the gold of ophir ! begone vile lusts as things accurst , let every soul then say , this pearl will i purchase and buy without further delay ? let 's look about , our glass runs out , and take such good advice ; what e'r you see the terms to be , to come unto the price . sing , sing , god's praise , you ought always , who this rich pearl have ; what would you be , what more can ye ask , seek , desire , or crave ? hymn . a bleeding christ , and the bleeding heart . how gracious and how good , o lord , art thou to sinners vile ; thy wrath is o'r , and thou on us , in jesus christ , doth smile ? sing praise ye tender-hearted ones , lift up god's praise on high ; for you shall live for evermore , yea , live and never die . behold a bleeding christ ! o see his side , how did it run with purple gore ? can ye forbear to grieve , shed tears , and mourn ! but did he die , and in our stead , that we might never die ? o love this lord , and sing his praise ; and on him all rely ! the fruits of christ's most blessed death in bleeding hearts appear ; their sins , they see , have wounded him , and pierc'd him like a spear . they look to him , therefore they mourn , and yet by faith rejoyce ; they cann't but grieve , nor yet forbear to sing with cheerful voice . hymn . salvation great and glorious . great god of love send from above thy new jerusalem ; on jesus's head cause thou to spread his sparkling diadem . hosannah sing continually , our jesus comes apace ; bow every knee ; all hell shall flee from th' terror of his face . salvation high is now come nigh , salvation great indeed ; o sinners see and saved be by jesus who did bleed ! here 's life for you that believe do , the terms most easy are ; o come and drink before you sink i' th' depths of hell's dispair . sing praise , sing praise , god's honour raise , ye who salvation have ; dear jesus love , who from above came , your poor souls to save : now heavens work is here begun , the work of singing praise ; most holy live , rejoyce and sing until you end your days . hymn . the tender hearts triumph . you tender-hearted souls rejoyce , and sing god's praises forth ; in sacred hymns lift up your voice whilst here you live on earth : for god bestowed hath on such new covenant true grace ; and though they grieve and sorrow much , they shall lift up their face . 't is a new spirit that 's in you , your heart of stone is gone ; the bleeding heart shall sweetly sing when this sad life is done . sin unto you most grievous is , you cannot it endure ; o is it thus ! then sing god's praise , for you shall sing for ever . hymn . the broken and contrite heart . what cause of joy ye saints is here ? have you a tender heart ? lift up your heads , be of good cheer , you have a blessed part ! o lord , we praise thy holy name , for offering precious grace ; let us believe , so let us sing , for happy is our case : thy word can break a heart of stone ; o lay on gracious blows , to sinners , and also to saints , let 's see what mercies flows . a broken heart 's a sacrifice most choice , o lord , to thee a broken christ , and broken hearts , most sweetly do agree . thou wilt , lord , dwell with contrite ones , and them revive also ; upon the humble sincere soul all lasting blessings flow . hymn . righteousness of christ glorious christ's righteousness imputed is , to those who do believe ; sing praise to christ , and god on high , who do this grace receive . your wedding garment is a sign of joy and sweet delight . sing praise , o soul , for thou art his , sing praise both day and night . in this may saints rejoyce always , 't is this doth make them glad ; such may rejoyce well all their dayes who are so bravely clad . your wedding robes they are , o know , richly embroidered ; no princess was e'er cloathed so , that king did ever wed . it shines bespangled with gold ; and such who have it on the king with joy doth them behold , and loves to look upon . how may we then continually in jesus christ rejoyce , and sing to him melodiously , with heart and cheerful voice ? hymn . christ's penny : or , the laborours hire . th psalm tune . lord , happy are those souls who hired are by thee ; for such that thou approvest of they saved all shall be : great 's their reward , o lord , their penny is not small ; they have a god , a christ have they , a crown ; they shall have all. then sing ye chosen ones , his praises now set forth ; and in his vine-yard faithful be whil'st you do live on earth . rewards of grace excell such which from debts arise ; rejoyce in god ye saints always , and your dear saviour prize . hymn . the blessed death of the saints : sung at the funeral of that vertuous gentlewoman , mrs. elizabeth bright ; decemb. th . / . thy word , o lord , doth comfort those who on thee do believe ; yea , all of them which thou hast chose thy quick'ning grace receive : in life it is a cordial sweet , at death it doth revive ; such comforts do thy saints meet with , of which , death can't deprive . a door of bliss to weary saints , thou art ( grim death ) become ; secured is the jewel safe , whilst earth the corps intombs . by death the saints do enter rest , prepar'd ready above ; they are for ever swallow'd up in endless joys and love. cease grieving then for such who are to blessed jesus gone : for they in glory shine most bright , and the blest prize have won , hymn . the happy death of the godly : sung at the funeral of mr. john tredwel . return to god , your resting place , ye sinners with all speed ; by christ , to god you must approach , for all things you do need . lord there 's no rest for to be found but in thy self alone ; high praises therefore forth shall sound to thee the holy one ! we sing below , but they above , in crowns excelling gold , triumph in their eternal bliss , amazing to behold : and each of them in majesty do represent a king ; yea , angels like in dignity ; and with the cherubs sing . immortal robes they all have on , and shine like to the sun ; let us prepare to follow them ; our glass will soon be run , death is a sleep , it is a rest from all our sorrows here ; let 's so believe that we with christ in glory may appear . hymn . psal . . . — i shall be satisfied when i awake with thy likeness . sung at the funeral of mrs. sarah wilmot , july th , . sing to the lord , ye saints of his , and thankfully express how sweet the due remembrance is of his pure holiness : and tho' his anger burns apace it quickly slacks again ; but , lord , thy favour and thy grace for ever doth remain . tho' sorrows lodge with us all night , which makes us weep and mourn , yet joy comes in at morning light , and makes a sweet return . by death thy saints enter to joys prepar'd for them above ; and the're for ever shall remain in endless life and love. o there they see as they are seen , with clear unclouded views ! o there they hear lord ! nothing else but sweet and glorious news ! anthems of joy , of love , and praise ; and hallelujahs sing ; who would be fond of this vain world , from whence such sorrows spring ? we shall be fully satisfied when we awake and rise : if we do sleep in jesus christ we then shall win the prize . hymn . salvation shining . o sing ye now unto the lord , a new and pleasant song ; for he hath wrought by his right hand ; to him doth praise belong . salvation is , lord , wrought by thee , from sin from wrath and hell ; o sing to god continually , all who in sion dwell ! 't is thee , o lord , we will exalt , and spread thy glory forth . for thy right hand hast wonders done for us , who dwell on earth : our enemies that are within , thou hast , o lord , brought down ; our foes also , that are without , by thee , are overthrown . ye righteous in the lord rejoyce , his holiness proclaim ; be thankful , and with heart and voice sing to his glorious name : for why , the lord our god is good , and he has heard our cry ? since on our side , lord thou hast stood , let 's praise thee till we die. hymn . the saints holy triumph . tremble all you who rest upon a form of godliness ; as also ye that do draw back , whether 't is more or less : rejoyce ye saints and do not fear you all are in christ's hand ; there 's not a soul that is sincere but firmly it doth stand upon a rock , and ne'er shall move , nor fall away ; besure gods own elect , who do him love , all trials shall endure . come saints , triumph , in the dear lamb , your lord , that once did die ; we that believe in jesus , have e'erlasting caufe of joy . come law of god , what hast thou now of us for to demand ? thy curses all did meet in christ ; who in our stead did stand : tho' such do sin thou canst not curse , thy curses all did ly upon our bleeding lord , when he , our sacrifice , did die ? come justice , where is now thy charge ; what hast thou now to show ? we do to thee present the blood which from christ's sides did flow : we shall not fall who do believe ; well may such sing ; therefore draw back they can't so as to die ; sing praise for evermore . hymn . the power of god's word . o lord , 't is matter of high praise thy word on us doth shine ; but happy they who feel it's rays , and glorious power divine . o let poor sinners feel their sin prick them , as with a sword ; and purge out all that filth within ; so will we praise thy word . enlightened souls have cause to sing , who wounded were by thee ; true cause of joy to such doth spring ; for they , lord , he aled be ; and now in robes , most richly deckt , they to the king are brought ; surpassing angels ; for have they a robe so richly wrought . we therefore throw our crowns below thy high and glorious throne ; and must all say , both night and day , thou worthy art alone , all glory , pow'r , and praise to have , by us for evermore ; thus let us sing unto our king , and him in heart adore . hymn . boundless mercy . th psalm tune . of mercy still , o lord , we will together sing ; and in sweet sacred songs os praise exalt our glorious king : let heart and tongue rejoyce , and say , who 's like to thee ? among the gods there 's none that thus forgives iniquity . we did not pardon crave , when in our blood we lay ; but t' was free grace that moved thee our cursed debts to pay . this pardon is this day to sinners offered ; oh! is there none that will come in , whilst out thy hands are spread ! you happy are , o souls , who now forgiven be ; and also over a short time you will it clearly see then sing , tho' in the dust you ly a little while ; a day is near that will make all god's pardon'd ones to smile . hymn . a call to obedience . thine ordinances are , o lord , like pipes that run with wine ; we praise thee now with one accord , for each command of thine . repent ! lord that 's a mighty thing ; but all who do not so , thou down to hell at last will bring , thy wrath to undergo . believe ! and shall we saved be ? o blessed be thy name ! for works can't not us justifie , since sinners we became . baptized be ! lord , some we fear do not of that approve ; but such who are indeed sincere , and truly do thee love , will do whatever thou dost say ; each precept , lord , is right ; and that which some do loathe and hate , is lovely in thy sight . hymn . spiritual joy increasing . rejoyce ye that in houses dwell , in houses made of clay , for bodies of the saints excell ; and shall another day : lord shew unto thy servants all thy favour and thy grace ; and let us all both great and small behold thy glorious face . o put great joy into our hearts , so will we sing to thee : and cause have more than those whose corn and wines increased be : sing to the lord in righteousness , his face do you behold ; in christ , god doth you richly bless with blessings manifold . god is your god , you vnion have through christ , with him again ; your bodies and your souls are his , so ever shall remaiu : some joy in wealth , and others do in pleasures much abound ; but such alone have cause of joy that have gods favour found . hymn . christ our glorious shepheard . now let us to our shepheard sing ; the shepheard of the sheep ; blessed are they , o happy souls , whom thou , lord , christ , doth keep : and will you then go still astray , o see the shepheard's come , he 's come to seek , to search and find , and convey you all home . he looks about to see if he can find you in his fold ; can you forbear for to return , how can your love be cold ? ah! he for you did shed his blood , he for his sheep did die ! and will you , souls , your dearest lord again now crucifie ! besides , the wolves are got abroad ; o hear your shepheard's voice ! o sing unto your blessed lord , and in him all rejoyce : thou art our shepheard and our guide . our prophet , priest and king , thou art our life , our light our hope , from thee , our joys do spring . then ravish'd with thy sacred love , let us thy glory raise ; and mount our souls to heaven above , in songs of lasting praise ; and hate to mind a strangers voice , thy doctrine let us hear , that we with thee may all rejoyce , when thou , lord , shalt appear . hymn . truth in its primitive purity . sung at the administration of baptism . now let us make a joyful noise , and sing unto the lord ; and in god's fear unite our joys , in him with one accord . o blessed day , in which we see god's ordinance restor'd ! worthy art thou , o holy one , to be in truth ador'd . dark clouds of error god expells , and truth shines splendently : o may our brethren be convinc'd , give them a seeing eye : you that believers are , arise , and all baptized be ; take heed you do not still dispise christ's holy baptisme . and let us all thy name , o lord , for evermore adore ; that thy blest institutions are restor'd as heretofore . if every truth , lord , be by us receiv'd in sincere love , it will to us an evidence be , we born are from above . hymn . the spiritual bridegroom . sung at the administration of baptism . how pleasant is it , for to see poor sinners to espouse their dearest lord , who only is , the blessed sharons rose . 't is thou , lord jesus , we do preach , and thy high praises sing ; thou art our all , all grace's from thee , and spiritual blessings spring . o who is like , lord , unto thee , thy beauty doth exceed ; thy glory is so infinite ; in thee 's all things we need : there 's none thy glory can set forth , yet thou dost condescend to be the bridegroom of our souls , our joy , our god , our friend . be thou to us above all things ; chief of ten thousand be ; let those enamouring lips of thine , endear our souls to thee : o let thy saints be ravished with love begetting love ; fill'd with eternal joys divine , which flow down from above ! o then with angels sing the praise of your most sacred friend : the glory of christ jesus raise , until your days shall end . hymn . god's temple plants . th psalm tune . ye sinners now come in , christ doth invite you all ; return , return , make angels sing , return for christ doth call : lord , thou art merciful , most ready to forgive , and pardon all that come to thee , and do thy son receive . o leave your wicked ways before it be too late ; for those that love , and live in sin , god's soul doth loathe and hate : but like a cedar tree , which lebanon forth brings , the just shall grow and flourish so as laden palm-tree springs . god's temple plants shall thrive , in his blest courts each one ; and still produce their fruitful juice , when they to age are grown : still fat and flourish shall , god's justice to express ; our rock is he , most pure and free from all vnrighteousness . then sing his praises forth , him honour and adore ; for you shall sing unto your king in glory evermore . hymn . christ's vine-yard . thy vine-yard , lord , was purchased , though wild it once did ly , and barren was as any ground thou couldst on earth espy ; but thou much cost and pains hast shewn , that it might fruitful be . thy sun doth shine , and rain doth fall on it continually . all praise therefore to god on high , how great is thy blest care of thy own church , and every soul who truly are sincere . we will the praises of the lord in sacred hymns set forth ; and sing therefore with one accord , whilst we do live on earth , hymn . the noble vine . there is on earth a noble vine , set in a fruitful place ; the root thereof is all divine , and full of precious grace : the lord by his right hand did plant this vine , and vine-yard too ; and shines upon each gracious saint , and waters it also . into this vine-yard we are call'd , whilst others idle stand ; lord help us all to work therein , and yield to thy command . thy care is great of thy own church , thou watcheth it each day ; but fruitless trees thou wilt pluck up , and throw them quite away . but wilt prune such that fruitful be , we therefore thee adore , and in sweet hymns we 'll sing to thee , now and for evermore . hymn . redeeming love. o that we could as angels do aloud god's praises sing , for wonders of redeeming love , from whence soul peace doth spring . shall man , who at the gates of hell did pale and speechless ly , not find a tongue , and time to speak ? stones against such will cry then ye , th' redeemed of the lord , your thankful voices raise ; who reconciled are to god ; sing your redeemers praise : sing and triumph in boundless grace , which thus hath set you free ; exalt , with shouts , all who believe , your god continually . hymn . spiritual food . our souls o lord , think thou upon , let us not them forget ; but cloathe them , o most holy one , and give them precious meat : thou hast thought on our souls , we know , when they in blood did ly , for which we praise thy holy name , and will thee magnify . how good art thou , to us , o lord , what plenteous food have we ; our paths drop fatness , therefore we 'll sing praises unto thee . put us , o lord in remembrance the needful thing to do ; that satan may never prevail , nor work our overthrow . hymn . the honour of christ's servants . ye servants of the lord of hosts who in his vine-yard be ; who wait on him , and do his work , praise him continually : your honour , o it is not small , if you accepted are ; and servants be , then you are all both sons , and daughters fair . nay he espoused hath you too , and in his bosome will lay you to all eternity , your souls with joy to fill . o then sinners , yield now come in , christ's servants to become ; so shall you have all crowns at last , and shine in his kingdom . the praises of this , lord , let us with joyful hearts sing forth ; or there is none like unto him in heaven nor on earth . hymn . christ the saints strength and guide . o lord we praise thee with our souls , thou dost us warning give of the great dangers we are in , and tell'st us how to live. 't is thou must give us pow'r and might , that we may watchful be ; o give us strength , that day and night we may sing praise to thee ! our steps direct , our souls protect , and in the way of peace lead us , we pray ; then to th' last day our joy will never cease . thou wilt not leave us , we do know , to fight , or war , alone ; but wilt assist us evemore , until all danger 's gone . worthy art thou , therefore , o lord , of praise continually ; let all that is in us give thanks , and praise thee till we die. hymn . — but they said , there is no hope . lord , of thy mercy we will sing , thy mercy hath no bound ; they that have said , there is no hope , thy mercy sweet have found . sinners break forth , and in amaze , do you rejoyce , and say , there 's hope , that we may mercy find , believe , and do not stay . o lord , thou dost not look that men should worthiness obtain : or some inherent fitness get , much less be born again , before that they take hold on thee , but presently believe ; and on thy promise lay fast hold , and ghrist strait-way receive . glory to god , glory to christ , let sinners say no more , there is no hope ; let all believe , and thy free grace adore . hymm . the joy of believers : or , the power of christ's intercession . thy intercession , holy lord , doth yield us joy and peace . we therefore will with one accord , from singing never cease : o thou exalted priest of god , who hast thy father's ear ; all glory and high praise to thee , who our sad shame didst bear . thy blood was shed , and we are fed and nourished by thee ; and by thy intercession are preserv'd continually . we need not fear what doth draw near , because thy pray'r is heard ; for thou , according to our day , wilt strength to us afford . ye saints rejoyce , lift up your voice , christ is at god's right hand ; between god's wrath and our poor souls he evermore doth stand . hymn . christ's green pastures . sung at the administration of baptism . o thou beloved of my soul , thou hast a people free from all baese mixtures . cleansed clean ; o tell me where they be ! thou hast thy institutions , and ordinances pure ; thou hast thy churches ; tell me when , and where i may be sure ! * thou hast enclosures rich and fair , peculiar to thy sheep , and dainty nourishing pastures , where thou dost them always keep : thou in communion fold's them up , in winter keeps them dry ; thou giv'st them shades from heat of sun ; o tell us where they ly ! o add more sheep unto thy fold , lord bring them in to thee ; that they thy glory may behold , and comforted all be : then shall they sing sweet songs of praise , and taste thy choicest love ; and ravish'd be too all their days , with comforts from above in height of sion , holy one , when shall we sweetly sing ; arise , o mighty prince of love , our joy and heav'nly king ! bring in poor sinners far and nigh ; o fill thy house , o lord , and we will praise thee evermore , with joy , and one accord . hymn . the fulness of christ . 't is thy high praise , o holy one , that we will ever raise , 't is jesus we must magnify , and live to all our days : thou art our life , our hope , and stay , our sun that gives us light ; thou art our prophet , priest , and king , praise is thy due and right . lord , thou th' brightness of th' father art , the god-head dwells in thee , and of thy fulness dost impart to such , o lord , as we . worthy art thou , all praise to have , who for our souls was slain : thou art exalted , and shall too , o lord , for ever reign . vnto the father and the son , and holy-ghost , therefore , be glory , honour , and renown , now and for evermore . hymn . to praise god becomes the vpright . come let us sing most joyfully to god of saving might , to raise the praise of the most high , becomes all the upright . 't is he that justifies all those who justified be : but woe to them who do oppose his grace , his grace so free ! lord not to us , not unto us , but to thy glorious name , let all the glory be ascrib'd , the honour and the fame . our works alass imperfect are , to jesus we must fly , his righteousness , and his alone is comely in thine eye . 't is faith whereby we do receive free pardon of our sin ; 't is he alone who doth revive that glorious work within : but faith , which doth us justify , most precious fruit doth bear , true faith , o lord , doth purify the heart , if it be there . ye righteous sing unto the lord , his praise do you set forth and let all people look to him , to the ends of the earth . hymn . the ax lifted up : or , wrath pursuing the sinner . o lord , thou just and holy one , wee the admire do , that fruitless trees are not cut down ; this doth thy mercy show : thy ax is up , o let us fear , for thou most righteous art , the natural branches did'st not spare ; therefore with trembling heart let sinners now to jesus fly , that grafted they may be in him , by faith , most speedily ; no other way can we find out , for to escape thy wrath ; and blessed be thy name , that ever jesus , out of love , to save us , hither came . o let us all good trees be found , and fruitful also be ; make thou our hearts sincere and sound , and we 'll rejoyce in thee ; and sing thy praise , o lord , most high , for we have blessings store ; help us dear god , our wants supply , and we 'll sing evermore . hymn . hallelujah : or , a hymn of praise on approaehing glory . rejoyce ye gracious ones , for god hath heard your moans , and soon will ease you of your groans , sing then hallelujah . your sins are pardon'd all , whether they 're great or small ; and you from god shall never fall , ttherefore hallelujah . to free you from your fear the mighty god is near , to save you quickly he 'll appear , therefore hallelujah . in god you interest have , o therefore to him cleave ; for he his saints will never leave , therefore hallelujah . to comfort great and small , babel shall quickly fall ; and christ shall rule and reign o'er all , therefore hallelujah . hymn . treasure in earthen vessels : or , all glory to god. o praise the lord , and look to him , sing praise unto his name ; o all ye saints of heaven and earth set forth his glorious fame : for sending his bless'd word to us , and ministers to raise , to preach the gospel of his son ; sing forth his glorious praise ! we have thy treasure holy one , in earthen vessels , so that all the glory might be known from thy own self to flow : to thee of right , o lamb of god , all honour doth belong ; wisdom , and glory , riches and strength and every praising song . most holy , holy , holy , lord ; almighty is thy name , which was before all time and is and shall be still the same ; come ye redeemed of the lord , your thankful voices raise ; can you be dumb , whilst angels sing our great redeemers praise ! come let us joyn with angels then , glory to god on high , peace upon earth , good will to men , thus sing eternally . hymn . grace abounding : or , a call to come to christ . hark sinners , hark , the trumpet sounds a call ; it is to you to come to christ ; tho sin abounds , gods grace doth overflow . rebels ! ( saith god ) lay down your arms , and make your peace with me ; o quickly uow , come in to day , you shall forgiven be ! with thee , o lord , there 's mercy found , therefore we will rejoyce ; god's grace , in christ , it doth abound , sinners lift up your voice , let pray'rs and tears flow out amain , be overcome with love ; and never cease until you see your hearts to god do move . o quickly now , agree with him , whom you offended have ; o saints praise him , and sinners know 't is christ alone can save your souls from wrath , o look to him ! so may you sing likewise so you shall have true peace and be free from all enemies . hymn . hell in a rage : sung at the administration of baptism . lift up your voice , sing and rejoyce , where are your melting tears ; do sinners turn , and to christ run , this fills satan with fears ; this makes hell sad , and heaven glad , the cherubs claps their wings ; there 's joy above to see what love is in the king of kings . to such as we that chosen be , and called by his grace ; who nat'rally in filth did ly , condemn'd with adam ' s race , but now made near and sav'd from fear , being rais'd up on high ; wash'd in christ's blood , enjoying good ; sing praise continually . lord let these know , and away go assured of thy love : and live each day that all may say , they born are from above : that we may see continually , cause to rejoyce in them , who being sincere , may each appear with christ , amen , amen . hymn . jacob's ladder , a type of christ . behold , and wonder now , in a most sacred song ; o let 's exalt the name of christ , to him doth praise belong . a wonder sure it was , and that in every part ; eor while he lay i th' virgins womb he lay in her own heart . that son the mother bore , the mother did create ; both perfect god , and perfect man , a wonder to relate . lord christ , thou art the priest , and yet the sacrifice : the altar too art thou likewise , and gift that sanctifies . thou god-man , king , and priest , almighty art yet meek ; thou art most just yet merciful , the guilty cam'st to seek . thou never any fail'd , that sought thee in their need ; thou never quencht the smoking flax , nor broke the bruised reed . thy life a wonder was ; but here 's a wonder more , that thou that didst all kingdoms make , shouldst make thy self so poor . and wonderful it is , [ that we this thing do see , ] that thou , who art all life and love , yet few , alass ! love thee . hymn . the wonder of pardoning grace . come stand and wonder every one , the way that god hath found to pardon us , it is such grace , that strongly doth abound . o let us of thy goodness sing , thy goodness let 's adore ; and with thy grace exalt our king , and saviour , evermore . no pardon , lord , without thy blood , for us , be poured out ; by thy atonement , lord , thou hast our pardon brought about : our surety for us did die , o blessed be thy name ! let saints praise thee with one accord , yea , highest praise proclaim . sinners , your pardon ready is , o fall at jesus's feet ; believe on him , and you shall have his pardoning mercy sweet ! o let us say , o lord , who is it that 's like unto thee ? who pardon 's all our horrid sins , yea , all iniquity . hymn . — i will put a new spirit within you : or , the vnwearied saint . o blessed lord , what hast thou done ? what kind of spirit 's this , that makes thy saints with joy to run , and thy sweet lips to kiss ? how heavy and how dull are they , ( how dead and carnal too ; ) who in the old nature do abide , they nothing freely do . thy saints are fired with thy love , they in thy ways rejoyce ; and upwards they to thee do move , and sing with cheerful voice . thy acceptation , lord , of us , thy love and favour kind , is wages now enough for us ; this blessing let us find . and we will praise thy holy name , and sing continually ; and of thy ways ne'er weary be , until we come to die. hymn . god's court , or , glory near . o all ye nations on the earth , praise ye the lord always ; and all the people every where , set forth his glorious praise . for great his goodness is to us , his truth it does endure ; wherefore praise ye the lord our god , praise him ye saints for e'vr. ye who attend god's holy courts , and in his house do dwell . sing forth his praise ev'n all your days , bless him with israel . you 'll quickly hear the lord doth reign , look up , and ready be ; sion's in travail , and ye shall her blest deliverance see . hymn . god pardons , guides , and leads . sing praise ye saints , ye pardon'd ones your debts forgiven are , for christ hath paid all you did owe , sing praise for evermore . o sinners fly with speed to christ , god's wrath in him is o'er , take hold of him and you shall sing sweet praise for evermore . and let the saints rejoyce in god , who cancels all their score : who heals all our infirmities , and doth our souls restore . 't is he that leads , 't is he that guides , and gives us rest and peace ; o sing christ's praise , you pardon'd ones , your joy shall never cease ! hymn . a call to young-men . christ's trumpet sounds yet once again , to bring poor sinners in ; 't is voluntiers he would obtain , to fight against their sin. and faithful laborours he likewise , is come to seek and call : young men , will you not now arise and enter's vine-yard all . christ worthy is , his service too , will raise you very high ; his wages is a crown of life , his servants never die. o then desert and come away , you serve a cruel foe ; desert his service now this day , and unto jesus go ! when any come , the angels sing , it causes joy above ; all such who come may also sing , for they enjoy his love. hymn . vnity of saints . unite our hearts unto thy self , o lord , we do thee pray , so will we sing thy praises forth , and walk with joy each day . thy saints above united be , they sing with one accord ; o let us with one heart and voice sing to the living lord ! singing together clearly shews , thy people should one be ; for vnion 's a most lovely thing , unite us all to thee ! and in thy truth and bonds of love , let us all live together in vnity , so will we sing thy praises , now and ever . hymn . infinite mercy shining . th psalm tune . t is of thy mercy , lord , of goodness and of love. that we will sing and magnify , which shines from thee above . we may , lord , tell the stars , and sands on the sea-shore ; as we account thy mercies can , in number they are more . in christ it is alone , the fountain's opened , from whence thy love and goodness flows , and all things we do need : let sinners then believe , and know assuredly , thou wilt forgive and pardon all , their great iniquity . and let thy saints rejoyce , and sing with joy of heart ; for they shall one day be with thee , and never more depart . hymn . the joy of repenting tears . thy ways , o lord , most pleasant be , and all thy paths are peace ; the joys of all that cleave to thee , shall never , never , cease . what are all sinful pleasures here , which are sinners delight ? will they not hateful all appear when sin is in their sight ? more joy is there in leaving it , and in repenting tears ; then they do find who it commit , who filled are with fears . o young-men , young-men , will you then christ's gracious call obey ? now hear his voice , i say again , no longer do delay ! all praise to god , thus let us say and sing continually ; who says to sinners , hear and live : believe and do not die. hymn . the saints holy triumph in christ. come le ts triumph in the dear lamb , our lord , who once did die ; we that believe in jesus , shall have everlasting joy . come law of god , what hast thou now of saints for to demand ? thy curses all did meet in christ , who did our surety stand ? come justice , where is now thy charge ? what hast thou now to shew ? we do to thee present the blood that from christ's sides did flow : o blessed wisdom infinite , 't is thou hast done the thing ; justice and mercy now are join'd , by our most blessed king ! but woe to such who slight this grace , salvation to neglect ; god's attributes with angry face will them at last reject : but saints shall hallelujahs sing , because they are set free ; their crowns they throw , lord , at thy feet , and will give praise to thee . hymn . christ a believers all : to be sung at the lord's-supper . now unto jesus christ let 's sing , before him let us fall ; he that did our salvation bring , ev'n he is all in all. thou art , bless'd one , the lord of lords , thou art the king of kings , thou art the sun of righteousness , with healing in thy wings . thou art our meat , thou art our drink , our physick and our health , our light , our strength , our joy and crown , our glory , and our wealth : to thee let us give all the praise , thy glory not divide , for god did thee to glory raise , to pull down all mans pride . salvation is in thee alone , which is a thing not small : pardon and peace , and life 's in thee , o thou art all in all ! what is there more , what can we say , but in the great'st amaze , even stand and think , and evermore sing forth thy glorious praise ? hymn . go thy ways forth by the footsteps of the flock . th psalm tune . o thou my fairest one ! thus my dear lord doth speak , if thou wouldst know what thou must do , and with my saints partake ; go up to yonder mount , thence look , and thou shalt ' spy , clear as the sun , what must be done , presented to thine eye ? seest thou that folded flock , whose heart the spirit tyes ; whom gospel-order calls into distinct societies ? seest thou the pastures where they do together feed ; the shepheard stands with both his hands to give them all they need ? their magna-charta is my word ; that is thy guide ; o follow them that follow me , and thy foot ne'er shall slide ! thither i 'll go , and join , there will i feast and feed ; there will i sing my shepheard's praise , who doth supply my need ! hymn . — my beloved is mine . sung at the receiving of the lord's-supper . o blessed day when we can say , lord jesus thou art mine ! o blessed day when we can say , lord jesus i am thine ! christ he is ours by deed of gift , and that 's a title good ; and saints are his by purchase right , he bought them with his blood. say then , i 'll have no love but he , i like my choice so well ; and for his spouse he will have me , together let us dwell . he feeds among the lillies white , there he doth most frequent ; amongst his saints is his delight , to smell their fragrant scent . their graces are his sweet repast , their prayers and praises are a banquet to him , and their faith , is his delicious fare . o let but me and this church be , a garden of delight ; to thee lord , and with one accord , we 'll praise thee day and night . hymn . a hymn of praise for the new-birth . you that are born again rejoyce , and sing god's praises forth ; with one accord lift up your voice , who experience the new birth : and you that are not yet renew'd , have cause to sing also ; because god doth afford the means , through which this grace doth flow . but none sweet music truly make , in god's most holy ear , but such who do thy grace partake , and truly changed are . o tremble then , and take good heed , rejoyce with holy dread ; lord whilst we live let 's sing thy praise , and do it as we read ! ev'n sing with grace in all our hearts , and with thy spirit too , do 〈◊〉 inrich our inward parts , that we thy praise may shew . hymn . a hymn on preparation for ordinances . 't is thou , o god , that must prepare our hearts , we therefore cry , cleanse us from every sin and spot ; o purge iniquity ! that we may hear and sing to thee ; so as with thee to meet ; and find thy word and ordinance to us exceeding sweet . that so we may in thee rejoyce , and thy great name adore ; and filled be with inward peace , and praise thee evermore . with faith and holy diligence , let us attend thy word ; that cause we may have still to sing unto our blessed lord. hymn . saints happy at death . sung at the funeral of mr. john loyns , june the th . . who ( to the great grief of his godly friends ) was accidentally drowned in the river of thames . the length of all our life and age , o lord , is in thy hand ; and we must go when thou dost call , and yield to thy command . our days are few , and pass away , like as a shadow flys ; let 's ready be , o lord we pray , and shun all vanities . when we go out of our own doors , none knows what may befall , or come on us , e'er we return ; life's uncertain to all . o call to mind , remember then , our time consumeth fast ; why hast thou made the sons of men , as things in vain to waste ? what man is he that liveth here , and death shall never see ? or , from the hand of the dark grave , can , lord , deliver'd be ? but blest are they , who die in christ , their death to them is gain , their souls do go to paradice ; the wicked go to pain . praised be god for jesus christ , who gives such victory unto thy saints , o'er sin and death ; sing praise continually . the godly ly in a sweet sleep , they sleep in jesus do ; and no more pain , nor sorrow shall for ever undergo . hymn . saints the salt of the earth . if saints , o lord , do season all amongst whom they do live , salt all with grace , both great and small they may sweet relish give ; and blessed be thy glorious name , in england salt is found ; some savoury souls who do proclaim thy grace , which doth abound . but o the want of salt , o lord , how few are salted well ; how few are like to salt indeed , salt thou thy israel ! now sing ye saints who are this salt , and let all season'd be with your most holy gracious lives ; great need of it we see . the earth will else corrupt and stink o salt it well therefore , and live to him that salted you , and sing for evermore . hymn . he is altogether lovely . th psalm tune . the gracious words that drop from christ's sweet mouth so free , are sweeter than the sweetest myrrh , to all that do love thee . in short , this is the man , he 's altogether love ; yea , altogether lovely's he to whom my soul doth move ! you daughters this is he , this my beloved is ? no tongue can tell , no language can express that love of his ! the drops that fill the seas , go , count them every one ? then join the number , if you please , of stars till there is none ? to these , the sands , the hairs , and all things else in sight ; hyperbolize immensity , and run to infinite ? this my beloved is , he is the total sum of all perfections , and the bliss of all that to him come . then sing his praise , and say , thou dost excell all men ; thou fairer art than ten thousand ; hallelujah . amen . hymn . the rose of sharon . sharon the garden of the world , the pride of palestine ; whose natural soyl more glory bore than solomon could resign ; could ne'er produce so sweet a rose as i will be to thee . so fair a lilly never grew , sharon must stoop to me. o blessed jesus , dost thou say , who 'll have a rose so sweet ! who will refuse our sharons rose , that knows its fragrant scent ? upon the cross thou was distill'd , we taste in distillation , the sweetness of the absent rose , by faith and acceptation . thou art a rose , my soul's repose , o let me never be , my dearest lord , a thorn to thee , who art so sweet to me . thou art the lilly of the vale , a matchless purity . and i will sing thy praise since thou dost in my bosom ly . hymn . cant. . . — his eyes are like the eyes of doves . i 'll tell you farther , that if such a person you shall see , whose eyes like doves are wash't with milk and water this is he ? he hath a killing eye , 't will pierce through adamantine ears ; and wound a rock but with a look , and melt it into tears . eyes that are clear and fitly set , that can see all things past , and all things present and to come , as long as time shall last : whose eyes are pure , holy and chast , never defil'd with sin ; that never was in the least promp't to take foul objects in . if such a one you meet , whose eyes like flames , and lamps of fire strikes dead , and yet gives life thereby , t is he that i desire ? this is the man i seek , and praise , all-seeing , and all-eye : tell him , if such a one you meet , 't is for his love , i die ! hymn . desert places rejoyce : or , babel's downfall ; the snare broken and we are escaped . let england , and god's sion now rejoyce and sing christ's praise , on whom the gospel sun doth shine , and send it 's glorious rays . sing to the lord , sing a new song , praise him all ends of th' earth . o let this isle of the great sea , his glory great fet forth . let th' wilderness and desert place , lift up to god their voice ; and all that hear of thy great acts , in thee always rejoyce . lord , we thy glory will declare , and praise thee in this land , for still to us thou art a friend , and up for us doth stand . blessed are they who so do hear , that for the time to come they are prepar'd , and ready be , before their dismal doom : god quickly will awake and rise ; ye saints rejoyce therefore ; great babel and all enemies , shall e'er long be no more . in vain are all their hellish plots , thy name , o lord , we praise ; our king yet lives ; we saved are , iet's praise thee all our days . hymn . beautiful on the mountains : or , a ransome found . how beautiful upon the mount , are they that peace proclaim , that unto rebels offer grace , in their great masters name . that unto captives do declare glad tidings ; and do tell to sinners , there 's a ransom found , to save their souls from hell. who say to saints , who interest have in thee , their dearest lord , thou wilt them all for ever save , such grace thou dost afford : mount sinai's fiery law can't break a heart that 's like a stone ; the creature 's arrows at the walls of brass , in vain are thrown . 't is only pardon that doth melt , and love doth sinners draw : we therefore , lord , will sing thy praise ; grace do's exceed the law. those who are , lord , united to thy self , in faith and love , may sing thy praise on earth , for they shall also sing above . hymm . a hymn out of the psalms , on the resurrection and joys at god's right hand . th . psalm tune . when i awake , o lord , i shall behold thy face in righteousness , be like to thee , ev'n filled with thy grace . full joys , lord are with thee , yea , in thy presence store , and at thy right-hand also are pleasures for evermore . ye angels great in pow'r , praise ye , and bless the lord ; which to obey , and do his will , immediately accord . yea , all in every place , praise ye his holy name ; my heart , my tongue , and all my soul , for ever do the same . o praise jehovah all ye nations far and nigh ; for great his truth and kindness is , praise him continually . hymn . an hymn containing some select verse out of the book of psalms . sing praises to our god , sing praise ; sing praises to our king ; praise to the king of all the earth , with understanding sing . o praise the lord , praise him , praise him , praise him with one accord ; praise him , praise him , all ye that be the servants of the lord my soul give laud unto the lord , my spirit do the same ; and all the powers of my soul , praise ye his holy name . for he it is that doth forgive all thine iniquities ; 't is he that heals thy sad disease , yea , all infirmities . come let us bow and praise the lord , before him let us fall ; and kneel to him , and him adore , for he hath made us all . he is the lord , he is our god , for us he doth provide : we are his flock , he doth us feed , his sheep , he doth us guide . i will give thanks unto the lord , because he hath heard me ; and is become most graciously a saviour unto me . hymn . a hymn on the answer of prayers , out of the psalms . to render thanks unto the lord ; how great a cause have i ; my voice , my pray'r , and my complaint ; he heard most readily . thou art my strength , thou art my stay , o lord , i sing to thee : thou art my fort , my fence and aid , a loving god to me . what thing is there that i can wish , but thee , in heav'n above ; and in the earth , there is , lord , none like thee , that i can love. for why , the well of life so pure , doth ever flow from thee ; and in thy light we are full sure , thy lasting light to see . my heart would faint but that in me my faith is fixed fast ; thy goodness in the earth i see , which doth for ever last . for this god is our god , and he will ever so abide ; he is our god , and he will be to death , our sure guide . hymn . another out of the psalms . th psalm tune . the lord is my defence , my joy , my mirth , my song ; he is become my saviour , and my strength , and refuge strong : thou art my god , and i will render thanks to thee : thou art my god , and i will praise thy mercy towards me . o come let 's to the lord , sing forth with joyful voice ; to th' rock of our salvation , : le ts make a joyful noise let us with holy songs , approach his presence now ; and sing sweet psalms triumphantly , before him let us bow . for he will quickly come and judge the earth will he , yea all the world 't is he will judg , in truth and equity . o give thanks to the lord , for gracious is he because thy mercy , does endure for ever we 'll praise thee . hymn . a sacred hymn on sanctification . the fountain of true holiness jehovah is most high ; his name it is that we will bless and praise continually . thou perfect art , in holiness , thy glory let us see , o shine upon us more or less , and make us all like thee , amongst the fruitful lillies thou dost love lord christ to feed , o let my soul a lilly be , no more a stinking weed . until the glorious morn shall break , and shadows flee away , o let the glorious lord be mine , and i ne'er from him stray ! o perfect , lord , thy handy-work , begun upon my heart ; make up thy jewels ; unto me , thy image , lord , impart ! turn , my beloved , to my soul , be like a pleasant roe ; and i will sing thy praises forth , whilst in thy paths i go . a glorious day is coming on , when all shall sing thy praise ; 't is holiness thou wilt perfect , in those longed for dayes . the end of the first century . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * au. mr. m. mr. d. psal . . psa . . , . psal . . . psal . . . psal . . . . psal . . psal . . . psal . . psal . . . psal . . . psal , . . psal . . . psal . . psal . . . . psal . psal . ver . a sigh for peace, or, the cause of division discovered wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost, and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands, as the way ordained of god to seek for it, is asserted and vindicated, as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general : in answer to a book intituled a search for schism / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sigh for peace, or, the cause of division discovered wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost, and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands, as the way ordained of god to seek for it, is asserted and vindicated, as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general : in answer to a book intituled a search for schism / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed for the author, [london] : . place of publication suggested by wing. numerous errors in paging. imperfect : tightly bound, with print show-through and some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- catechisms. baptists -- apologetic works. baptism in the holy spirit. imposition of hands. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sigh for peace ; or the cause of division discovered . wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost , and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands , as the way ordained of god to seek for it ; is asserted and vindicated , as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general . in answer to a book intituled a search for schism . by tho. grantham , a servant of christ . gal. . , , . ye did run well , who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth ? this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you . a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump . i have confidence in you , through the lord , that you will be none otherwise minded ; but he that troubleth you shall bear his burthen whosoever he be . wherefore love the truth and peace , zech. . . printed for the author , . the epistle dedicatory . to the church of christ in london , with the general assembly of messengers , elders , and brethren , occasionally meeting together to consider of the affairs of the churches of christ . salutation , &c. brethren , when i consider how much it is your desire , and the desire of the churches in general , that brotherly concord , peace and truth , might possess the room of all our divisions , in affection , judgment , and practise ; and particularly in the fourth principle of christianity . and how many prayers are daily made to god for so great a blessing ; and that hopeful way we lately seem'd to be in , to lay hold of the thing which hath been so long desired : and therewithal that most unhappy obstruction of our hopes ( as ye know ) arising from one who should rather have been a restorer of the antient path which many have forsaken , and so a healer of the breach which hath been made , by its being neglected : who being in reputation for wisdome , having therewithal great opportunity ( and i am perswaded really intended ) to do the church of christ much good ; even then , by a little solly following his own councels ( doubtless through satans malice , who envied our good ) hath made himself and his enterprises obnoxious , and our wound more grievous . i say , when i considered these things , i could not pass them over without a sigh , ( even this which here i present unto you ) saying in my heart , why hath the lord done this ? which was no sooner conceived , but i was immediately satisfied , that the lord was jealous for his holy way , which had been gr●sly prophaned by an hypocritical conformity thereunto . and true for ever is that word , hosea . ult . all the wayes of the lord are right , and the just shall walk therein ; but the transgressor shall fall therein . and certainly , as our brethrens resusing to seek the lord after the due order at the first , so this prodigious hypocrisie at the last , may too truly be called * perrez ecclesia at this day . thou lord art righteous , thou knowest the hearts of the children of men , and hast discovered the hidden things thereof , and hast pleaded the cause of thy precious ( though much abused ) truth . even so lord let our iniquities be ever corrected , but yet in mercy forgive us our trespasses . but what shall we say , shall we now no more go about this dreadfull work , to bring the ark ( the fourth principle of christianity i mean ) to its proper place in the churches ? or rather some irregular churches to their due reverence unto it . if it seem good in the eyes of the lord , let his servants still convene to consider of this matter , perhaps we shall find grace in his sight ; for there is hope that we shall one understand another , and with one consent seek and serve the lord god of our fore-fathers . and this i am the more induced to believe or hope for , from , not only the great desire which i yet find to be alive in the hearts of christians generally , that peace in this matter might be upon israel . but also from the great forwardness which i found in the searchers themselves to consent unto certain proposals for peace ; the first of which is this , that it be granted and professed on all sides by the formerly divided parties , that that laying on of hands , heb. . . is one of the principles of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation . this proposition being considered , it may appear that there wants but a step ( as it were ) to unity in the truth it self , and so to a lasting peace one with another . and methinks it should be no impossible thing , for us to agree about the particular service intended , heb. . . ( unless a spirit of perversness be mingled amongst us ) towards the clearing of which difficulty , something is said in the sequel , which i desire may be considered . why the searchers should so much declaim against you , as if you unchurched all church●s but your selves , i can see no reason , having never understood , that you did at any time by any agreement , deliver such a doctrine . nor is it so much your business to meddle with unchurching any body , as to keep your selves from corruption in doctrine and manners . indeed the point of communion with those who reject or oppose your faith and practice in the case depending , hath been much debated , and resolved in the negative ( èspecially touching the table of the lord ) but this is so far from being an argument , that you deny them to be churches of christ , that it plainly argues you own them for such ; but yet such , as for their rejecting or opposing some truth of god , are therefore uncapable of present communion with those that religiously observe the truth by them rejected and opposed . for if you deem them to be no churches at all , what need any debate be had , whether it be orderly or safe to communicate with them at the lords table ? now , that persons may be allowed the appellation of christians ( and so of the church of christ ) and yet ( as the matter may be circumstanced concerning them ) ought to be held at some distance in respect of present communion , with other christians , or churches , implies no absurdity , but is rather very necessary , i hope the ensuing discourse will demonstrate . something also i have said in vindication of the messengers office ( which i perceive to be much questioned by some ) i confess my self nothing so fit a person to plead this cause as some other . however , if that which i have done may give occasion to any other to do more , or more effectually , in this point , i shall think my pains well bestowed . i commit all that i have said to the blessing of god , and the consideration of his churches . your brother and servant , tho. grantham . to the authors of the book , intituled a search for schism . brethren , when we consider how god is able to effect good things for his people by contrary wayes , even by turning the unkindness of brethren into means of preservation to the family , gen. . . we are made even against hope to believe in hope , that the product of your doings in your search ( and the epistle prefixed ) may be good , although its procedure in respect of its chief patriot , was certainly from a mind filled with perturbation , and ( it s to be feared ) with no small emulation against some , for no other cause , then for their confidence and constancy in that , which by the vision of truth , is made known for the good of the church . for how is it credible that a pure fountain ( or mind filled with love and peace ) should ever send forth such dreadful streams of slanders against the church of god , as can hardly be paralelled in any author ? as if the congregations of christians under imposition of hands , were invaders and usurpers of the lords peculiar prerogative , such as would irrevocably throw their fellow servants into hell and death : such as lock heaven-gate against the strictest piety of a dissenting brother , and open it wide to those that are defective in morals . such as heat the furnace seven times for those which bow not to their dictates : such as make conscience a make bate : such as kindle flames in gods house by fire taken from the altar , and bring the fattest oblations to maintain that fire of contention : such as will rather fire the house of god , than dye without doing somewhat , which may perpetuate their names : yea such as are sathans ●urveyers to bring prey to his den . and ( to make the measure run over and over ) such as , if they could execute all that they condemn , few or none could be saved ! it is true , after all this , and much more of the same nature , you stroke us on the head , and tell us , though you thus speak , yet you are perswaded better things of ●he most of us ; a narrow plaister for so great a wound , being no more then must ●e said ( if charity bear any sway ) of the manifold sects which now profess christianity , among whom there are many ● who according to their light ) are pious , peaceable , and serious . but alas , who will believe that many among us are good christians , if it be true , that one part of our churches consist of such as are notoriously known to be such as you have characterized ? but what shall we say , shall we render railing for railing ? god forbid ! for we are taught of god to overcome evil with good ; nor will we revenge our selves by recriminations . and as we are confident that our innocency will in these things greatly plead against you ; so we trust there are no such impieties , and execrable doers among you , if this your search have not tinctured you . the lord knoweth , and israel shall know , that if we knew any such evil workers in our congregations , they should either reform or go to their place , and if you know any such , you might have done well to have singled them out , that we might have known them by name , and not have thus sold us into the hands of scorners , to be a derision to the foolish , prov. . . there is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword , but the tongue of the wise is health . nor do we doubt but that many of you are meerly ensnared in the publication of your epistle , and it is strange you should imply his pen in this matter , whom you knew to be too much entangled in the folly of his own wayes ( at that time ) to be truly serviceable to god and his people , whatever he hath been in time past . what is here written , now offers it self to your consideration , as a thing compelled from us at this time , by your high provocation , well knowing it to be more suitable to the time , and the state of the church in general , to be studying for terms of reconciliation , then arguments for disputation ; and therefore we could wish that christians would not thus put one another to business , seeing they do bear ( and are like to bear ) in their body the marks of the lord jesus , according to that saying , gal. . . nor was it needful to set down your demands in this our answer , partly for that the substance may be understood by what we have said , and partly for that you have made your book so publick , as that it is ( as it were ) in every brothers hand , who therefore when he sees this answer , may compare it with your search , for his own satisfaction . your brother , tho. grantham . a sigh for peace : or , the cause of division discovered , &c. it is certainly an easie thing ( though very pernicious ) to fill the church of christ with questions ; and such too , as may carry a shew of strength against the most important articles of our faith. but it is not so easie for those who are sick of questions or demands , to receive satisfaction by any endeavour whatsoever . and as in other points of faith ; the questions of some have been endless , even so now that humour hath been and is much at work , against that solemn service of prayer , with the imposition of hands for the promised spirit of god , as a gift pertaining to the members of the body of our lord jesus christ . as is too apparent by sundry papers extant , and among the rest , one entituled , a search for schism , containing no less than an hundred demands ( though . only be the number set down by the demandants ) which are the more prodigeous for that divers of them have been answered , by divers hands , and no reply made by the enquirers . what the reason hereof should be is doubtful , unless the opposers of this truth intend to state the controversie anew ( for i was told that this book of demands is but a preparatory to a greater work ) and thereby become ( more effectually ) the disturbers and obstructers of that measure of unity remaining , and peace pretended . but as in this we shall be too solicitous , so , neither in our answer , shall we need to be ovluminous , by tracing their demands one by one . for though the number thereof be many , yet they are reducible to three heads , touching which the truth being evinced , the whole body of their demands are answered . now the heads to which their demands may be reduced are these : the first , concerns the constitution of those congregations of baptized disciples who reject that solemn service of prayer with imposition of hands for the promised spirit : viz. whether they be true churches of christ or not ? the second , respecteth the matter of communion between those christians who religiously observe prayer with the imposition of hands , as a principle of christs doctrine , pertaining to the beginning of christian men ; and these who reject and oppose it . the third , is touching the service it self , in respect of its grounds and ends ; as also in respect of the persons concerned in the practice thereof at this day . that i may with the more facility and clearness proceed in the consideration of these particulars , i shall begin with the last first ; touching which particular , i shall endeavour to make good this proposttion , viz. that as god hath promised to give the spirit of his son ( or his holy spirit ) to all that are the called of the lord : so he hath appointed a solemn way wherein his servants and handmaids , generally , are to wait upon him for the reception thereof , which way is the prayers of the church ( performed by her ministers ) with the laying on of hands , and this as a principle of christian rel●gion , belonging to them in the min●rity of their christian state . for explication of some parts of this proposition , it is meet that we shew , first , what we mean by the holy ghost , sith some now , ( as well as heretofore acts . — ) either by reason of ignorance or some worse cause , seem not to know , whether there be any holy ghost . as if they had forgotten unto what they were baptized . matth. . . by the holy ghost then , we do not mean the spirit of man in its most reformed and elevated state imaginable ; neither any created spirit whatsoever . but by the holy ghost , we mean that spirit , by whose operation the creation of the world was brought forth , and formed . gen. . . job . . and which knoweth all things , even the deep things of god , cor. . . and which is present every where , psal . . , . . which spirit we therefore believe to be one with the father in nature and essence , and therefore rightly said to be god , acts . , , . secondly , when we speak of mens receiving this holy spirit , we do not mean that he dwels in them essentially and personally ; for so they cannot contain him . but he dwels in them by manifestation and operation . by gifts , according to cor. . by fruits , according to cor. . , , , . galath . . , . and seeing the ground of this so much neglected truth , the fourth principle of christs doctrine , lieth much in that great promise of the spirit of god , as the right of all the disciples of christ . it behoveth that we open the nature of that glorious promise , that being affected with the excellency , and made sensible of the necessitie thereof , we may the more devoutly seek for it , not only in our private devotion , but also in that special and publick way assigned in the holy scripture for the obtaining so great a benefit . let it therefore first be considered , that to be under the common influence and operation of the spirit , in the ministery of the word , in order to conversion , is one thing ; and the reception of the holy ghost , as a seal and confirmation of the souls of christians , as it is the earnest of their inheritance , is another . it is certain , a person may be eminently under the operation of the spirit , in the first consideration ; and yet be a stranger to the reception of the spirit in the other ; as appeared first in the apostles themselves , who though they were the persons which received the first fruits of the promised holy spirit , yet were they for some time in the profession of the gospel before they received it . for they did not receive the spirit of promise till after the ascention of our lord , acts . , . — but wait for the promise of the father , which ( saith he ) ye have heard of me ; f●r john truly baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy ghost not many dayes hence . john . . the spirit was not yet given , because that jesus was not yet glorified . in like manner the samaritans were converted from the errour of their way , by the preaching of the word , and became the disciples of christ , and yet the spirit of promise was faln on none of them , acts . , , . the ephesians also believed in god after they heard the gospel of their salvation ; but were not sealed with the holy spirit of promise till afterward , eph. . , . agreeable hereunto is that question of the apostle , acts . . have ye received the holy ghost since ye believed ? the persons to whom this question was put , were believers in christ , yea baptized believers . whence we are to note , that baptized disciples have right to the promise of the holy ghost ; and indeed hence it was that peter could so confidently and universally promise ( in the word of the lord ) the gift of the holy ghost to every one that doth repent of their iniquities , and are baptized in the name of the l●rd jesus christ for the remission of their sins , acts . . it appeareth therefore , that persons may be under the operation of the spirit of god in the ministerie of the word , to their illumination and conversion so far as to be brought into a certain state of christianity , ( for those that may be called disciples are called christians , acts . . ) and yet be without the enjoyment of the sealing and confirming spirit of promise , in themselves , which is yet more evident , from john . , . i will pray the father , and he shall give you another comforter — even the spirit of truth — for he dwelleth with you , and shall be in you . note well , this promise doth not respect the spirit , as it worketh miracles , only ; but also , and indeed much more , the spirit as it is a leader into all truuh , called therefore the spirit of truth , yea , 't is the spirit in such wise as sh●uld ●bide with , and in the saints for ever ; yea , it is the comforter , or spirit of comfort , and is therefore that gift of the spirit which pertaineth to christians generally . secondly , that this sealing and confirming spirit of promise belongs to christs disciples generally , whether male or female , i conceive some necessity to demonstrate , because the searchers , to the intent , that at the least they may exclude ●omen from the benefit of prayer , with the laying on of hands , will not have them included in the word them , acts . . but if we prove , that women have right to the promise equally with men , we shall not at all fear the trifling demands of the searchers in their querie , which only serves , to shew the weakness of their cause , for it seems if it be true , that women ( as well as men ) had hands imposed on them with prayer , by the apostles , for the holy spirit ; then their cavils against the universality of the pract●ce of laying on o● hands is ( at least ) the less considerable . now that the promise of the spirit extends to christian women as well as men , appeareth from the prophets foresight of the extent thereof , isa . . . i will powr water upon him that is thirsty , and flouds upon the dry ground , i will powr my spirit upon thy seed , and my blessing upon their off-spring . joel . and it shall come to pass afterward , that i will powr out my spirit upon all flesh — and upon the servants , and upon the handmaid in those dayes , will i powr out of my spirit . which glorious promise was first fulfilled to the christians , soon after the assention of our lord , acts . and now is the time , as well as then , for christians to reap the fruit of that promise , acts . . — the holy ghost which god hath g●ven to them that obey him . because ye are sons , god hath s●nt forth the spirit of his son into your hearts . gal. . . in jesus christ there is neither male nor female , but if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . it is the spirit of promise which doth witness with our spirit , that we are the children of god. and again , he that stabiisheth us in chr●st , and hath ano●nted us is god , who also hath se●led us , and given the earnest of the spirit in our hearts . yea this , even this spirit , is one of the great and precious promises by which christians are made partakers of the divine nature , according to pet. , , . thus we see that the scriptures do evince , that the handmaids as well as the servants of the lord ; that the children of god without excepti●n ; that ●he church of god without rejection of any true member thereof ▪ have a clear indubit●te right to the gift of the h●ly spirit . and it is also evident that the promise of the spirit , consists not only , no , nor chiefly in those gifts , which some say are now ceased , to wit , of miracles , tongues , &c. ( though they have no scripture for it ) but this promise chiefly consists in the sanctifying graces , and soulest ablishing comforts thereof , yea in that which sealeth a christian to the day of redemption ▪ ( which tongues and miracles will fail to do ) and in the mean time is like water to him that i● thirsty , as before we have seen . 't is that vnction which the holy one which teacheth christians all things , or leads them into all truth . i● a word , it is that reception of the spiri● which is above all gifts of tongues , prophesies ▪ &c. called charity , and is branched into meekness , temperance , goodness and faith , yea , ' ti● that gift of the spirit by which the love of god is shed abroad in the hearts of christians , being the spirit of love , power , and a sound mind ▪ in the exercise whereof ( i mean this gift o● the spirit ) a christian is both accepted of god ▪ and approved of men . so then we have the glorious promise of the spirit remaining for , and pertaining to the handmaids and servants o● the lord , in the most excellent gifts thereo● as much as ever , and consequently are as much concerned to seek for it as ever any was , and this leads me to the second branch of my proposition , viz. the dutiful observance of that way which is allowed and confirmed from heaven for obtaining that heavenly donation . that god should by his prophets foretell o● such grace , and so often mention it as so grea● a promise ; the reception whereof is so necessary as without which christians do want the lively evidence , ●ea● & confirmation that they are the sons of god , and heirs with christ ; & not assign some peculiar way , and special means , for all that are concern'd , to make use of in order to their obtaining it , seems not to be credible ; which yet he hath not done , if prayer with imposition of hands by the church ( or her delegates ) be rejected ; if otherwise , it were well if some body would assign us what peculiar way the word of god directs us to , as being that which god hath ratified from heaven , as a means peculiar for that end and purpose ; which if any assay to shew us , let them also consider why the apostles took that way which is so much neglected by our brethren , if there were any other particular means and way to be used for the end aforesaid ? but if it be said that no special way or means is left us , but the general ordinance of prayer ; &c. we must then say , it is not like the dealings of god in other cases ; for ordinarily when it pleased god to promise or give some special favour or gift unto his church , he therewithall ordered some solemn or service to keep in memory that his favour , and to be a means to partake of the fruit of his promise : thus the covenant which god made with abraham and his seed , the deliverance which he wrought for them , the great things which he promised them , must be perpetuated , and waited for , in the use of such wayes , as in the wisedome of god , were thought fit for the memorial or reception of these favours respectively . and so must the remission of our sins by the death of christ , be sought for , and signified , not only by the word and prayer , in general ; but particularly , in the baptisme of of repentance , for the remission of our sins also . nor must we only receive the flesh and blood of christ , by the word preached , but particularly , in the solemn use of the table of the lord also . in like manner , we are not only to seek to god for his spirit in the constant and ordinary course of prayer , but also in a special and peculiar way of prayer , allowed and confirmed from heaven , for that very end and purpose , which is the point to be demonstrated according to what the scriptures in that behalf doth teach us . and first from that place , acts . , , , . now when the ap●stles which were at jerusa●em heard that samaria had received the word of god , they sent unto them peter and john who when they were come down prayed for them that they might rec●ive the holy ghost — then laid they their hands on them and they received the holy g●ost . for the better understanding of this place , it is meet to consider that such as pray to god , ought to know that the thing which they pray for is attainable ; and that they know it is the will of god that they should ask of him that very thing which they pray for , especially when the prayer is made positively ; i mean , withou● conditional expressions , as in the case before us the prayer is such , as indeed it ought to be without doubting , when we ask of god those gifts which he hath promised . james . , , . but if by the holy ghost in this place , be meant only the extraordinarie gifts thereof , such as tongues , m●racles , &c. then certainly there was no ground from any promise of god , to pray that all those persons which were baptized in samaria , should so receive the spirit . no , nor any ground from any promise of god to pray for so much as any one particular person among them ●l● , sith the promise of god in that case , is not made to this or that man or woman by name ; and consequently here was no ground for the apostles to pray absolutely and believingly , but rather doubtingly , for that very thing which they purposely prayed for . seeing it is evident that not all the members of a church , but rather very few ( and them also unknown by name to any man , no not to the apostles themselves . cor. . , . acts . . ) are chosen to be prophets , workers of miracles , &c. and therefore it followeth that there could be no such laying on of hands at all practised here , as some imagine , namely a laying on of hands for the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost . for though it is true , that god did sometimes give such gifts of his spirit in the way of praier with laying on of hands , yet that such gifts was the only proper end of that service , is confidently denied , because ( as before ) it was impossible to know ( in any ordinarie way ) for whom to pray , or on whom to impose hands , whether on men or women , seeing neither sex is exempted from the extraor ; dinarie gifts of the spirit . it is certain that god gave the gift of tongues , &c. in the ministerie of the word . acts . yet it doth not follow thence , that such gifts are the only proper end of preaching the word ; but the undoubted end of the lord , in that ordinance is , that men believe , and be saved ( though perhaps they never receive the gift of tongues , prophesie , &c. ) and this is certainly that end which shall be attained by all that rightly accept that means of salvation . john . . these things are written that ye might believe , and in believing that ye may have life through his name . nor will acts . . prove that there is , or ever was any such thing as laying on of hands for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit only , for still we must distinguish between an effect onely , and that which is the undoubted end of any service . the reasons even now urged , do forbid us to say , that tongues , miracles , &c. was the undoubted or precise end of laying on of hands , acts . because the service was universal ; but extraordinarie gifts are particular only ; and let it be seriously considered , that if paul had found twelve hundred men instead of twelve who had not receiv●d the holy gh●st since they believed , ought he not to have done that to them all which he did to these ? doubtless he ought ; yet who can imagine , that such gifts as tongues , miracles , &c. should be given to each individual ? this would be far from that order which god hath beautified his church withall . cor. . , . and whereas paul in this place , and peter and john in acts . is conceived by some of our opposites , to have imposed hands to work miracles for confirmation of the word , this is a very great mistake , for then there is no reason to imagine that the practice of laying on of hands should have been general ( as doubtless it was . ) for seeing that the healing of one cripple acts . . was sufficient to convince open enemies that the power of god was with his apostles ; then surely it was not necessarie that all the baptized should miraculously speak with tongues , for to convince themselves or others , that the word which they had received was from heaven . but alas , men fall into thi● errour , by their unwillingness to see the truth , for signes are not for them that believe ; and miracles had been wrought by philip at s●m●ria , to confirm the word , before peter and john came there . acts . , . and all that we read of peter and john in respect of confirming the word , is only this , that they testified and preached it , and departed vers . . now that all the disciples at samaria had hands imposed on them , cannot without absurdity be denied , for certainly they imposed hands on all , in wh●se hehalf they prayed ; but will anyman say that they prayed but for some of them only , that they might receive the promise of the father , and that all the rest must be excluded both from the prayer , and the gift prayed for ? surely such a conceit would make peter and john miserable comforters to those disciples , whom they should thus neglect in their prayers for the holy spirit ; as all the women which were baptized were so neglected , in the opinion of the searchers , for they by their demands will needs suppose , that the apostles did not impose hands on women , as if women had not as clear a right to the promised spirit as men ! they might as well have doubted whether peter and iohn laid hands on men , seeing the text sayes nothing particularly of them any more than of the women . but i say these imaginations are very irrational , sith ( as before ) it was not known to peter or john , what persons by name should have extraordinary gifts , whether the servants or handmaids of the lord , nor whether any of them should be prophets or ●peakers with tongues . but this they knew , that the gift of the holy ghost belonged to them all ( for so they had preached to others , acts ● . . ) and therefore certainly they prayed for all to whom the promise did belong ; and then doubtless for whom they prayed , on them they laid their hands , and so it is evident they laid their hands on all . the same may be noted from pauls question acts . . have ye received the holy ghost since ye believed ? where certainly he includeth the whole number of these certain disciples , who ( by their ●nswer to the question ) being all discovered ●o be wanting in respect of that great gift of god ; paul must needs be very partial , if he had not the same care for all , that he had for some , and if his care was equally for them all , ●hen reason tels us he would not be want●ng to any of them in his endeavours , that they might receive that spirit which as 〈◊〉 they had not received . so that still we see , laying on of hands was practised as generally as baptism , or any other ordinance , where the practise of it is recorded , and that is an evidence that the end of that service was that gift of the holy ghost which is general , and consequently not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , otherwise then as they are included within the compass of that gracious promise . that the laying on of hands , acts . acts . was not the laying on of hands for extraordinarie gifts , but for the general donation of the spirit to disciples indifferently , is yet more manifest ; because upon this only ground could paul ask the disciples , whether they had received the holy ghost since they believed ; and upon this only ground may the ministers of christ ask this question of the disciples at this day , i mean so to ask it , as thereby implying that they ought to have it , for so much paul's question doth plainly imply , as appears by his endeavours that they ( who had been so long without it ) might now be made partakers of it , and that for them all indifferently . and upon this ground only could peter and iohn use the means to obtain the spirit for the disciples at samaria generally , namely because the promise of the spirit was universal . again from this consideration , that that laying on of hands acts . acts . was a general practise , and the gift prayed for in that service , a general gift , it will follow that the apostles performed this service of prayer with laying on of hands , by vertue of their ministerial authoritie , and not by vertue of any particular power they had to give the holy ghost , as some do vainly imagine , otherwise it will follow , that by their gift of miracles they were bound to work a miracle for every disciple at samaria ; and for every one of those certain disciples at ephesus , * which is absurd to imagine , or else that they did in this service more than they were bound to do either by vertue of gift or office , which is as ridiculous on the other hand ; for though it is certain that they had no power to give the spirit of god to any man ; yet certainly they had power ( or authoritie from god ) to pray , with the laying on of their hands , for the members of the bodie , that they might receive the spirit of promise , as appeared by those heavenly confirmations which ensued upon their performance , insomuch as that it may be said , this service of prayer with the laying on of hands is as much confirmed from heaven , to be a thing well pleasing to him , as any other ordinance whatsoever . and forasmuch as the universality of the practice of layng on of hands , with prayer for the holy spirit , being evinced is a matter of that importance , that even thence it will follow , that it is no such thing as many imagine it to be ( viz. a temporary practice only fitted for the apostles times , that some few having practised or submitted to it , it was to cease , being only perf●rmed for the gift of tongues and miracles , &c. ) i will therefore proceed a little further to demonstrate this service to be very universal . it may appear to all indifferent men , that very many thousands were in the religious practise of this ministration in the first churches . and first from the state of the church at samaria in its plantation , where the number of disciples was very great , in likelihood not less than an hun●red thousand , as may be gathered from acts . vers . . it is said , samaria had received the word ; and vers . . there was great joy in that city . which expressions , that they include each individual , i will not affirm ; for , if they import the generality of the inhabitants ( as that will appear ) it sufficeth for my purpose . this is evident , partly for that we hear not of so much as one person , who opposed himself against philip's preaching in that city . no not so much as simon the sorcerer , for he consented to philip's doctrine . and partly , for that there is the same reason to believe , that the whole city ( or the generality thereof ) was converted by philip , as that they had been generally deceived by simon the witch ( as that will not be denied ) for as it is said vers . . he bewitched them , to wit , the people of samaria ; which is interpreted of all , or the generality . vers . . to him they had regard , from the least even to the greatest of them . so on the other hand it is said , vers . . that philip went down to samaria , and preached christ to them , i. e. all , or the generality of them ; as it is rationally gathered from vers . . a●d the people with one accord , gave heed to those things which philip spake , he●ring and seeing the miracles which he did . hence we may perceive , a very general ( if not an universal ) conversion of this city ; who , like as in times past they gave regard to the sorcerer , both the least and greatest of them ; but now , with one accord , they gave heed to what philip spake ; even so , vers . . it is said of the very same people without exception , that when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptized . and that there might be no cause to doubt , whether the account given , be so general , as the terms already noted may imply ; it is added by way of explication , both men and women . yea further , as the deceived city is now recorded to be converted , so the very deceiver himself is brought in as believing and baptized , vers . . we have therefore not only a general or indefinite account of the disciples at samaria , but what is generally or indefinitely delivered in the words , samaria received the word , &c. is sufficiently defined to be meant of the people with one accord . of the deceiver , and them that had been deceived . of the people of both sexes , to wit , both men and women . and upon those very persons , it is said ( without the least intimation of any exception of any person or persons whatsoever ) the apostles laid their hands , after they had prayed for them , that they might receive the holy ghost , for as yet he was faln on none of them . note [ on none of them ] wherefore they prayed for them all . therefore they imposed hands on them all . now , suppose that the city of samaria , would afford but three hundred thousand inhabitants capable of instruction , if then i do allow two parts out of three , yet there remains converts probably ; however infallibly a great multitude . to whom we may well add ( as a people owning the doctrine of imposition of hands ) the church at jerusalem , which consisted of many thousands , by whom peter and john was sent to samaria , and it were impious to think , that they would now innovate a service in the worship of god at samaria , which was not before received , in the church that sent them thither . but this service is numbred among the principles of the hebrew church , and found practised in the church at ephesus ; whence it appears , this ministration was as universal as other ordinances in the primitive churches . ergo , it was for the general gift of the spirit . ergo , not for the extraordinary gifts only . nor doth that text , deut. . . alledged by the searchers , prove the contrary ; for it is not only said , that ioshua was full of the spirit of wised●me , for moses had laid his hands on him , &c. which seems to be no more , then what timothy received by the laying on of pau●'s hands ( viz. ) the spirit of — a sound minde or judgement , which may be received where the miraculous gifts of the spirit are wanting . doubtless , it may be said without boasting , that some christians in these days , are so endewed with the spirit of god ( at least in comparison of many of the lords servants ) that , they are full of the spirit of wisedom ; yet the searchers will not say , they are full of the miraculous gifts of the spirit : seeing they have told us ( though very untruly ) that the end of laying on of hands , acts . acts . is ceased , or not attainable ; which they conceive was only the miraculous gifts of the spirit . which conceit of theirs is the more prodigious , when we consider that some of them did lately submit to laying on of hands , with prayer to god. but i marvail with what conscience , if indeed he was of this minde , that the end of that service was not attainable . it is worthy consideration , that there was a church at ephesus , long before paul laid hands on those certain disciples , which he found there , at his second comming to that city . acts . , , , . so that the word of god had been confirmed there for many years ; priscilla and aquilla having been left there , who taught such as were ignorant , the way of the lord more perfectly . apollos also , mightily convinced the jews by the scriptures , that jesus was the christ ; we cannot now reasonably think , that paul would settle those certain disciples acts . in a church distinct from the church at ephesus already , much less in a way or practise contradistinct from the church ; and if not , then it follows , that the church at ephesus were also in the practise of prayer , with the laying on of hands , as well as those certain disciples , who were now to be laid into the building with the rest ; which yet is the more considerable , if we note that passage in ephesians . . which was spoken of the whole church at ephesus , and shews plainly , that they had received the holy ghost or spirit of promise , after they believed the gospel of their salvation ; which fully agree with the order , wherein the certain disciples also received the spirit . and here let us not omit that passage , acts . . & . . whence it is observable , that paul , the elect v●ssel , must be sent to damaseus , to be taught the principles or rudiments of religion by * ananias , and particularly in the doctrine of baptism , and laying on of hands for the gift of the holy ghost , not only in repect of the miraculous gifts of tongues , &c. ( for it is a doubt ( among christians ) whether he spake with tongues , by vertue of any proper gift ) or by means of his education . ) but the spirit of love , power , and of a second mind , which he affirms god had given him , tim. . . and though it is true , there was some variaiton in the order of things in paul's case ; that is no prejudice to the truth in general , there being an emergency which might occasion it , and a special allowance from heaven for it at that time . nor may this variation be a president for us , to vary in things of this nature , having no such occasion for it , any more than the israelites eating the passover , without being cleansed , according to the purification of the sanctuary ; when an emergency called for it , and the lord allowed it , gave them ground to do so again , when there was neither the one nor the other ; nor is it material against ought that we have said , that ananias was no officer in the church , and therefore imposed hands on paul by vertue of his gift only . for unless we imagine the church to have greater power than god , we cannot deny ananias to have authority , for all that he said and did to saul . seeing he had immediate mission from heaven , which is equivolent to the churches mission at least ; nor is it ●easonable to think , that power to act in gospel ordinances , is so tied to the church , as that god may not anticipate that order when it pleaseth him . and as this chosen vessel was taught the ●udiments of christianity , so he instructed others in the same , as we have seen in part , and may see yet further , in his writing to ●imothy ; who being under some fears and ●emptations , he labours to comfort him , from the consideration of the spirit which god had given him ; which was the spirit of love , power , and of a sound mind , which he reminds him of , by mentioning the means used for obtaining it , which was the putting on of paul's hands . see and consider , tim. . , , , , . we are now come to the great charter of the church , for this point of faith ; i mean , ●hat epistle which paul wrote unto the hebrew church ; who , as he himself had learned and taught others , concerning the laying on of hands , as we have seen before , so he ●uts the first of gospel churches in mind , of that which they ( who were to be as a standard to the rest ) had been taught , in respect of their principles as christians . heb. . ● . and particularly , concerning laying on of hands , heb. . . concerning which particular , as i shall have too much occasion to note the differing opinions among the baptized congregations , so i shall first set down those things wherein they do generally agree , or rather , that which is granted by the searchers . and first , they grant , that the doctrine of the holy ghost ( i suppose they mean the promise of the holy ghost ) was frequently taught as a principle of the christian faith ; and they give us no reason , why it ought not with like frequency to be taught , as a principle of the same faith now . secondly they grant , that that laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of the doctrine of christ , and a part of the foundation * . now , either they must grant that these two , to wit , the promise of the spirit , and laying on of hands , with prayer to obtain it , makes but one principle of christianity , or else they fall into that which they condemn ; viz. the making seven principles . but to say the truth , they seem to make these two to be but one ; yet so , as that they would destroy the practick part . for they demand , whether laying on of hands , heb. . . may not be figuratively understood , for the holy spirit which was given thereby ? but the answer is easie , and tells them plainly , that ●his is the way to have such a figurative foun●ation , as babes in christ could never under●tand ; and then will come in a figurative bap●ism only . yea a figurative resurrection too , ●ould creep into the church , at the heels of ●he other figures ; till at last , the truth of all ●he principles would stand only for a cyber . but the instance , which the searchers bring ●o strengthen this their figurative interpreta●ion , very providentially overthrows it . for , ●hough the cup is taken for the wine , and the ●read and wine , for the body and blood of christ ; ●et we know that the sign , and thing signi●●ed , do both remain ; for the use and com●●rt of the church ; and why then should ●rayer , with the laying on of hands ( which 〈◊〉 the sign ) be made void by the promise of ●he spirit , which is the substance . these ●hings premised , the searchers twenty fifth ●emand , and the discourse thereon depending 〈◊〉 discerned to be frivolous . because whatso●ver they are pleased to write , it is certainly ●nown that their opinion is contrary to that wri●●ng . otherwise it were easie to shew , not only the novelty of their conceit in the said question , but the vanity of such an interpretation of the word foundation , as th●re they bring , might be discovered . for evident it is , that the same which is called , the first principles of the oracles of god , and milk for babes , vers . . is called the principles of the doctrine of christ [ which pertain to the beginning of christian men ] which now the author would intermit ; and the foundation , which he would not lay again ; which foundation when he comes to set down in its parts ; which principles , when he comes to enumerate , are thus set forth ; of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god. of the doctrine of baptism , and of laying on of hands . of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgement . and what though it be said , that other foundations can no man lay , than that which is already laid , which is jesus christ ; doth this prejudice that use of the word foundation , he● . . . not at all . or at least not any more than the church , being called christ , cor. . . and the pillar and ground [ or foundation ] of the truth ; tim. . . doth prejudice the son of god , his being called christ , or the foundation . and are not the prophets and apostles called the foundation ; ephes . . . of which christ in the same place is said to be the corner stone ? and yet surely christians of ordinary capacity do understand , that these sayings do not contradict , but agree very well with that saying of paul , other foundation can no m●n lay , &c. so long as christ is held to be the head , the all , and in all , to the church of god. but sith the searchers do grant ( and say to my knowledge , that they did ever grant ) that laying on of hands , heb. . . to be a principle of the doctrine of christ , and a part of the foundation ; which i take to be a good b●sis for a happy composure of our unhappy d●fference ; it remaineth , that the only ( or chief ) point of difference lyeth in this , what laying on of hands it is , that is called a part of the foundation , heb. . ? whether laying on of hands with prayer , for the spirit of promise ; or some other kinde of laying on of hands . we affirm the first , they imagine the latter . but now , ask them what laying on of hands they will assign to be meant , heb. . . and then , they either answer nothing at all , or else so flatly contradictorily one to another , or with such hesitation in themselves , as it is to be admired ; but more to be lamented , that such leaders in israel ( as they pass for ; and to give them their due , might well pass for such , if , &c. ) should not be able to digest the milk which babes must feed upon , nor can they assign to babes their portion therein . but instead of milk , they sometimes set before them strong meat , even that imposition of hands which pertains to bishops in the church ; and this as one of the babes principles , which is far from being fit nutriment for them . and now that the searchers may sufficiently shew themselves to be in the dark , about that laying on of hands which they confess to be a principle , &c. they number up six or seven sorts of laying on of hands , and then puts it to the question , which of all these laying on of hands is intended heb. . . and is that which we call a doctrin● of christ ? by which unwary demand , no doubt they have led many a simple meaning christian into a maze , and there left him ; nor can they possibly give him relief , sith they cannot extricate themselves from the same meander ; and as an addition to their folly , they demand , that seeing divers men are differently perswaded , concerning that laying on of hands , heb. . . whether this be not a sufficient ground for them to doubt , whether that laying on of hands practised by us be instituted by god ? which if it be , then they have sufficient ground , to doubt of all things which they ( as well as we ) do hold for gods institutions ; for certainly divers men are ( notwithstanding their interest ) diversly perswaded of most places of scripture , on which they ground their faith and practise . but to leave them in this mist , till they being weary , shall desire to return to the lord in this part of his will ; i shall endeavour to shew plainly , what laying on of hands it is , which is called a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation . and though the searchers are pleased to trouble their readers , with a large enumeration of layings on of hands ; yet they seem at last to be content , that , that laying on of hands heb. . . should be one out of two ; namely , either that which was for healing the sick , or else that which was for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit : but they rather incline to the first , and as for the latter , we have shewed there is no such thing , nor ever was ; being a thing out of the reach of mans understanding to whom such gifts do belong , and consequently they know not on whom to impose their hands . that the laying on of hands , heb. . . should be that on the sick is no way congruous to truth or reason . for , how should this be one of the first principles of the oracles of god , and milk for babes ; seeing it is more blessed to believe without a miracle , than with one , ( but it is not more blessed to be without a principle of christs doctrine , than to have it ) and those who would not believe unless they saw them , are upbraided for the hardness of their hearts . certain it is , that that laying on of hands to heal the sick , if necessary , yet is prerequisite to faith , signs being for them which do not believe ; and not for them that do . but the laying on of hands , heb. . . is subsequent to faith , yea it follows baptism ; and that as it is a principle of the oracles of god , therefore it cannot be that which was for the working of miracles . again , laying on of hands on the sick , is most proper ( if not only proper ) for those that are without , and therefore not milk for babes in the church , and consequently not that laying on of hands , heb. . . as for sick persons in the church of god , they are not bid to have hands laid on them , but are bid to send for the elders of the church , that they may pray over them , anointing them with oil in the name of the lord , &c. and they have a promise , that the prayer of faith shall save the sick . and what though the healing of the woman , luke . . and the diseased people of the island , acts . , . may be teaching to all , yet this doth not prove , that it is a principle appertaining to the beginning of a christian and to follow his baptism . nor do i see , that it is properly teaching to a believer as such ; for what doth it add to the faith of a christian , who believeth already , that christ hath one far greater things than the healing of a disease ? for he believeth , that he hath overcome death , and brought life and immortality to light , by the gospel . indeed , to those that doubt whether christ be the son of god , such a sight may be some way convincing to them . but still this is for the begetting of faith , and so not the fourth principle of a christian . we see then , that laying on of hands on persons which are without , to work miracles , can with no shew of truth , be said to be that laying on of hands he● . . . especially if we consider , how it is joyned with the casting out of devils , mark . . which is therefore a further evidence , that it is not in any wise to be recounted as milk for babes , in the church of christ . i will end this point , with an argument from our brethrens opinion ; which is , that laying on of hands for working miracles is ceased ; whence i argue , all the principles of christs doctrine do remain , of which principles , laying on of hands is one . but laying on of hands for working miracles ( say our brethren ) is ceased ; ergo , laying on of hands for working miracles , is not that which is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . ergo , laying on of hands to heal the sick , is not that which is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . that the laying on of hands , acts . acts . is the very same that is mentioned , heb. . . appeareth thus , that in heb. ▪ . is a principle of the doctrine of christ , a part of the foundation . but why so ? not simply as a bare ceremony , or act done by man ; but rather in respect of some divine thing signified , and obtainable , in the religious observation of it , as the proper undoubted end of that service , and that for babes in christ . that laying on of hands acts . acts . doth agree with these considerations , being dispensed to babes in christ , religiously performed with prayer to god ; and signified a spiritual benediction , and was useful for the obtaining of it , even the spirit of promise ; and was therefore fundamental to their christian state . again , that laying on of hands heb. . doth immediately follow baptism , as its proper place ; and so doth that laying on of hands , acts . and acts . which cannot be said of any other laying on of hands whatsoever . the due consideration of the place of this laying on of hands , is very material for our information , what particular laying on of hands , is intended heb. . . yea , it is necessary in any case , that the order of the truths of christ be maintained , otherwise we shall be very preposterous in religion ; let us then reflect upon that order , in which the principles of christianity are proposed to us , heb. . , . here that faith which justifieth , must needs follow brokenness of heart , as not only scripture , but christians experience doth witness . and the promise of the holy spirit doth follow the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , acts . . and so doth the means which god hath provided for the obtaining that gift or promise ; and so doth the resurrection precede the eternal judgement . nor can i imagine how our dissenting brethren can satisfie their consciences , touching the place of that laying on of hands , which they imagine to be a principle of christs doctrine . for let those that say , it is laying on of hands upon the sick , tell me where they will place it in the order of their principles ; and why it may not as well precede faith , as follow baptism ? and how can those that will have it to be laying on of hands on officers , make it the fourth principle , or fundamental to christianity , sith in reason the church must be founded , before she ordain her officers . as for those which say , the laying on of hands heb. . . is wicked mens laying wicked hands on the saints , i say a more prodigious dream was scarce ever heard of : for how can that be the fourth principle of christs , which neither he , nor none by his appointment , ever taught at all . and though it is true he speaks of such a thing , and fore-tels it , yet that proves it not his doctrine , for then it will follow , that judas his treason , and all the impious acts fore-told in the scripture , are the doctrines of christ . nor shall we intermit doctor hammond's conceit , as if the laying on of hands , he● . . . should belong to those who fall after baptism ; which conceit our brethren do seem very highly to approve of ; as if any thing but truth in this case were acceptable to them , though it overthrow their own opinion . for whiles they lean to the doctor , they have quite forgotten , that laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation ; yea milk for babes in christ . but what shall we say , do none attain to all the principles , nor to every part of the foundation , but such as fall after baptism ? again , are they only babes which fall so , as to need the indulgence of reconciliarion ; or do not sometimes strong men fall , when babes hold on their way ? it is not forgotten , that the chief author of this search , did so fall , as to need the indulgence of reconciliation ; from whence i conclude , that he either is a babe , or else strong men may fall ; if the latter , then i further conclude , that if there be any such laying on of hands as the doctor supposes ; but proves not ( though our brethren unwarily say that he doth ) yet it cannot be that which is mentioned , he● . . . for the reasons aforesaid . as also , for that it would follow from this conceit , that one and the same person , must have hands imposed on him times and seven , if he fall so often after his baptism , and require the indulgence of reconciliation . i doubt not , but that our dissenting brethren would easily grant , that the laying on of hands , heb. . . is the very same that is mentioned , acts . acts . provided we did not urge the continuance of the practice in the church of god. but then i would know , how we can rightly own that principle , if we destroy the practick part ? and here let me seriously ask our brethren , what manner of instruction they give young disciples , concerning this matter ? or how they principle them in it , or build them upon it ? their conscience is witness , ( i speak what i know , for i also was as they are ) that they either wholly pass by that principle in silence , not instructing them at all concerning it ; or else , if any thing be said about it ; it is rather to make the matter doubtful , than to clear their understandings in it . and indeed it 's impossible they should do otherwise ( as the case stands ) for seeing they know not what it is , are therefore such ( i speak it confidently , yet i trust humbly ) as ( notwithstanding their largeness in the knowledge of many things ) have need to be taught this principle of the oracles of god. let it not offend them , though i plainly tell them , that in this point of faith , they are too much like the athenians in another case , for as they by their inscription to the unknown god , declared plainly , that they ignorantly worshipped him whom they know not ; even so our brethren , whiles they grant ( and all men must grant ) laying on of hands , heb. . . to be a principle of christs doctrine , and yet cannot determine what laying on of hands that is ; they do little less than subscribe , to the unknown principle ; or the vnkown part of the fovndation . if otherwise , let them determine positively concerning this principle , what it is ; and let their diligence appear , in teaching it ; together with the rest of the principles : which yet ( to use their own dialect ) i despair ever to see them perform either the one , or the other ; at least , so long as they carry themselves towards those who shew them that which they so ignorantly pretend to own , so much like the athenians , as to account of those to be setters forth of strange principles , as they accounted paul , a letter forth of strange gods . and though you ( as they ) seem to be very desirous to hear what in this case we have to say ; yet when we have told you the truth , then , as they thought it a thing incredible , that god should raise the dead ; so you think it incredible , that we should receive any blessing , in the way of prayer with the laying on of hands ; as evidently appears by your demand , in these words . how doth your practise of laying on of hands , agree with theirs , ( meaning the apostles ) acts . acts . having no such blessing to communicate , as they had ? in which demand , you seem to lye under two very great mistakes ; as first , that the apostles had the blessing of the gifts of the spirit , to communicate to others ; as if , they could give the gift of prophesie , tongues , miracle , & c ! secondly , that on whomsoever they laid their hands , the same received such a blessing ; to wit , the miraculous gifts of the spirit . which blinde conceits you never learned of simon peter , for they are the errours of simon magus , acts . whose blindness was rebuked by peter , affirming , that that blessing was the gift of god. yea , it is written , and the scripture cannot be broken , that every-good gift , and every perfect gift , is from above , and cometh down from the father of lights , &c. yea the spirit it self is free , blowing where it listeth , and is therefore not to be communicated by any man whatsoever . we conclude therefore , that the apostles had no blessing to communicate to those , on whom they laid their hands ; but could only beg it at the hands of god , as the very words of the text doth shew , acts . they prayed for them that they might receive the holy ghost , not that they might receive the gift of tongues , miracles , &c. but only that they might receive the holy ghost . from the text thus considered , i argue ; he did communicate the blessing only , to whom the prayer was made for it . but the prayer was only made to god , therefore he only did communicate the blessing . again , they that beg a blessing for themselves , or for others , do not communicate that blessing to themselves , or to others ; but , the apostles did only beg the blessing of the spirit , &c. therefore they did not communicate it , &c. let it further be considered , that if that which they ask be obtainable , and obtained by those that now wait upon god in prayer , with the laying on of hands , then our practise doth agree very well with theirs ; now what did they ask ? the gift of tongues ? &c. no , they only asked the holy ghost , and surely the holy ghost is now attainable and attained , even there , where tongues are not attained ; otherwise it will follow , that the greater part of the saints in the primitive times , as well as the saints in these dayes , have not received the holy ghost ; which is not only foolish , but very pernicious to imagine . for acts . . its said , the disciples were filled with ●oy , and with the holy ghost ; and the church is exhorted to be filled with the spirit . all which may be attained to now , although the miraculous gifts of the spirit be not attained , nor indeed are they necessary in order thereunto ; as the places last quoted do shew . now that there is an agreement between the laying on of hands , acts . acts . heb. . . and that which we practise , will further appear by this parallel : the apostles performed laying on of hands , with prayer to the lord , and so do we ; they performed this service on disciples , as such , whether male or female , and so do we ; it was practised by them in order to the receiving the holy ghost , and so it is by us ; they placed laying on of hands , in the fourth place of christian principles , and so do we ; they asked not tongues , and miraculous gifts , no more do we : the effects of that service depended not on them , no more it doth on us ; but that was according to the will of the father then , and so it is to us . justly might we return our brethrens demand upon themselves , in their practises of prayer and preaching , when we consider how god gave the spirit in the likeness of fiery tongues , to the hundred and twenty disciples , who prayed with one accord , in one place : the like to which effect , never followed the most serious prayer , that ever proceeded from our brethren . must we then conclude , that there is no agreement between their prayer , and the prayer of the church in those dayes ? this is the way to make void the the wayes of god , unless he give us the like effect at all times , which he ever gave to any , at any time . the like may be said of preaching ; for when peter preached , acts . the holy ghost fell on all that heard the word , so as that they spake with tongues . would it not be absurd now to say , that peter did communicate the blessing of tongues here ? and thence to conclude , that none may preach unless they have the blessing of tongues to communicate to those to whom they preach . nor may we say , that the like effect did alwayes follow the preaching of peter himself ; no nor his laying on of hands neither . for there is no mention that those disciples at samaria received the gift of tongues ; but only that they reeeived the holy ghost : for we have shewed , that the holy ghost may be received so , as that persons may be known , and said by others to be full of the holy ghost , and yet the miraculous gifts of the spirit may be absent . nor is it to be doubted , but that simon magus had hands imposed on him , in common with the rest , sith he was a believer , and baptized , and shewed as much zeal as the rest ( if not more ) for it s said he continued with philip , and wondered , beholding the miracles which were done , &c. nor was the deceit of his heart perceived , till after the service of laying on of hands was performed , acts . and yet certainly his receivings in respect of spiritual blessings , was not so great , but that it may be safely presumed , that many christians in these dayes , do receive the holy ghost as much as simon m●gus did . and though peter said to him , thou hast no part or lot in this matter , yet the words [ this matter ] cannot refer to simons desire of subjection to laying on of hands ; but to his ambitious and avaritious desire , to be a minister to dispence that ordinance to others , for carnal advantage . and whereas it is much doubted , whether laying on of hands , was ever taught or commanded by authority from heaven , me thinks this should not be hard to be understood . unless we can be so void of reason , as to dream that peter and john , when they came among the disciples , went preposterously , from person to person , praying and putting their hands upon them , and that without telling them what they meant by it . which to do ▪ were enough to amaze the spectators , and i● contrary to the glory and gravity of gospel performances ; which as they must be acts ( o● subjections ) of faith , if they do please god so the faith of such acts ( or subjections ) mus● come by hearing , with understanding wha● they must do , or to what they must submit , and to what end . and this hearing must be from the word of god , else there i● no ground for faith , or practice in matter of religion , so as to please god. but go● was well pleased with the apostles acting , an● the samaritans submission , in the case of prayer with laying on of hands , and bore witness from heaven that he approved it ; therefore their obedience was of faith ; therefore they heard with understanding , that what they did was their duty ; & therefore the lord taught them both concerning the duty , and the end thereof . that the apostles should practise with such frequency , this service of prayer with the laying on of hands , upon disciples generally ; that it should be recorded among the chief of their acts , in promoting the gospel , and setling of churches , that it should be placed among the principles of religion , and all this without authority from heaven , is unworthy the followers of christ or his apostles to imagine . but forasmuch as divers have laboured to satisfie the contrary minded in this point , whose works are extant & unanswered , i shall not insist farther ; save that i do briefly shew that our brethren , are not consistent with themselves in this particular . for they do that themselves , which they will not allow themselves to do ; for they practice laying on of hands on officers , for which there is as little by way of precept as for the laying hands on disciples , or rather less . for since they do now acquit that text , tim. . . as not having any thing to do with the business of ordination ; and to strengthen a contrary interpretation , do bring the suffrages of dr. hammond , victor , cyprian , and the council of carthage ; sure i am they have no text which hath so much as the face of a precept [ i mean in so many words ] for laying hands upon officers ; although it is beyond doubt with me , that that way was ordained of god , to depute his servants in the ministery , to their works respectively ; wherefore i will conclude this discourse , with this enthememe . there is sufficient ground in scripture for laying on of hands on officers in the church . ergo , there is sufficient ground in scripture for laying hands on members of the church . and whereas our brethren do make a shew ( by their actions out of some ancient authors , as well as modern ) as if antiquity were on their part in this controversie ; i will therefore put in something by way of evidence to the contrary , as i finde them ; partly from the authors themselves , and partly from such as have gathered certain sentences out of the works of the ancients concerning this matter . tertullian to this effect ; that like as in baptism the flesh is washed , that the soul may be made clean ; so in laying on of hands the flesh is overshadowed , that the soul may be illuminated by the holy spirit . in the constitutions of clemens , there is said to be this passage , viz. we must all hasten to be born again to god ( meaning by baptism ) and at length to be signed by the bishop , that is , to receive the seven fold grace of the spirit , otherwise a person cannot perfectly be a christian , if carelesly and willingly ( and not of necessity ) he remain without it . cyprian , speaking of the samaritans receiving the holy ghost , by laying on of hands ; saith — — which also is done with us , that they which are baptized in the church , must be presented to those who are set over the church , that by prayer and laying on of hands , may obtain the holy ghost . jerom ( according to andreas willet ) touching laying on of hands , hath these words ; viz. it hath ever been the custom of the church . eusebius , hath a passage concerning novatus ( who lived about the middle of the third century ) how he slighted the imposition of hands ; these are his words ( after mention made of his being baptized , he saith ) he obtained not — — that which he sh●uld have done , according to the canon ( or rule ) of the church ; to wit , confirmation by the hands of the bishop . insomuch then he obtained not that , how came he by the holy ghost ? see also to the same effect , the seventh book of eusebius , c. . for modern writers , erasmus ( in my opinion ) as he is most clear without mixture in most of his expositions , and particularly in this point he is most clear . these are his words upon the principles , heb. . , . the first degree unto christianity , is to be repentant of our former life , and to forsake sin ; next of all it is required , that we be taught that true innocency , and soul-health , is to be hoped for of god : then forthwith , that we be purged by holy baptism , from the filthiness of our sins , and rest●red again to the state of innocency : then that we receive the holy ghost , by laying on of hands ; and believe the resurrection of the dead to come ; and also that last judgement , that shall award some to eternal felicity , and other some , to everlasting pains and damnation . diodate hath these words ; laying on of hands , was a ceremony joyned to baptism , for a sign of blessing and consecration to god. and he calls these principles , the first grounds of christian catechism , and the heads of christian doctrine . as in baptism , the outward ministery or mystical washing doth regenerate , wash away sins , cleanse and purge us from our filthiness ; so doth the imsition or laying on of hands , give us the gift of the holy ghost : but the outward and mystical washing , doth onely represent unto us , that in christs bloud our sins are clean washed away , &c. from these testimonies it appeareth , that what the churches of christ now contend for , touching the practice , and the subjects , and the end of prayer , with laying on of hands , is no novel thing ; but as the institution of that ordinance is found in holy writ ( as we have shewed ) so it hath continued in use as necessary , in place , the next to holy baptism , among christians generally . an appendix . meeting lately with a very worthy brother , at east haddon in the county of northampton ; he did much importune me , to admit of a short dispute with him about the principle under consideration ; to whom i consent , and he laid down this assertion . that laying on of hands , heb. . . is not a foundation principle , nor a practical duty . against which i laid down this position : viz. laying on of hands heb. . . is a principle of the doctrine of christ , to be practised by his people , and a part of the foundation there mentioned : which my opposite did wholly deny . it was argued that i should be opponent , whereupon i offered this argument . arg. . opponent . the word principles , heb. . . being of the plural number , is refer'd to all these particulars ; namely , repentance , faith , baptisms , laying on of hands , the resurrection of the dead , and the eternal judgement . ergo , laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of the doctrine of christ . respondent . you ought not to prove it a principle by that text. opponent . my position is not the text , therefore i may prove it by this text. respondent . the text about which we d●ffer will not prove it . opponent . if any scripture will prove it , it is sufficient ; and therefore answer to the argument . either distinguish , or deny the antecedent or consequence . respondent . i will prove that laying on of hands , heb. . is no foundation principle , thus . — opponent . sir , you would by no means be opponent , when i desired you to make good your assertion ; but complain'd , as if i put you upon that which was not your part : why then do you now refuse to answer , and put your self into the place of the opponent , which you know is contrary to rule , sith i am now to prove . respondent . well , i answer by denying the consequence . opponnent . i desire to know whether you grant the antecedent , for your denial of the consequence only , supposeth that you grant the antecedent . respondent . i do grant your antecedent . opponent . then take notice that you grant the first branch of my position , which you denied [ saying , i deny it all ] for that the word principles , heb. . . refer to all the particulars aforesaid , then to laying on of hands ; and so the consequence will follow . thus you grant as much as i can desire . respondent . i will prove — opponent . brother , you ought not to prove till you be opponent , this you know better than i do . therefore either recal your answer to the antecedent , or confess your errour in denying the first branch of my position . respondent . well , for argument sake , i grant an errour in matter of form . opponent . no brother , your errour is an errour of judgement . first , to deny laying on of hands , heb. . . to be a principle of the doctrine of christ , and then to grant it ; in one of these you must needs err in judgement . here my respondent was not willing to acknowledge an errour in judgement . and therefore ( as also for divers other pressing occasions that was to be considered , and the time but short ) i put a period to the dispute . and because i had many other things to say , which time would not then permit to be spoken , i will now offer them to consideration ; and that as for other causes , so chiefly for that i hope it may tend to the satisfaction of my honoured brother , and others that are under the same mistake . argument . laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of the oracles of god. ergo , laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of the doctrine of christ . the antecedent is manifest , because the same particulars which is called the principles of christs doctrine , heb. . is called the principles of the oracles of god , heb. . . which is evident ; because as the principles of gods oracles , he● . . . were the things which the hebrew church ought not to have any need to be taught again ; so the principles of the doctrine of christ , heb. . , . are the things which ( as a foundation ) among them , ought not to need any laying again . argument . all those particulars , which in heb. . , . the apostle saith he would intermit , and so go on to perfection , are the principles of the doctrine of christ : but laying on of hands , heb. . . is one of the particulars , which the apost●e said , heb. . . th●t he would intermit . ergo , laying on of hands , heb. . . is a principle of the d●ctrine of christ . i take this argument to be irrefragable , therefore i proceed to the second branch of the position , which is ; that laying on of hands , heb. . . ought to be practised by the people of god. but first must explicate the words [ laying on of hands ] which in the understanding of any considering man , must needs signifie an act , and therefore cannot be restrained to the passive ; for as the subject on whom hands is laid , is passive as to the act , ( but not in faith ) so the party imposing of hands is active . and evident it is , that the word [ principle ] heb. . . refers to the act expressly , and to the passive implicitly , as any considering man may understand : whence i argue , argument . seeing the laying on of hands , heb. . . as it is a principle ( or d●ctrine of christ ( if you please ) is not passive only , but active als● . it must needs be pract●sed , either by the servants of christ , or the servants of sathan ; but laying on of hands , heb. . . as it is a principle of the doctrine of christ , is not to be practised by the servants of sathan : ergo , laying on of hands , as it is a principle of the doctrine of christ , is to be practised by the servants of christ . the major is plain . the minor surely will not be denied . for who will presume to say , that the principles of christs doctrine ( as such ) are to be practised by the servants of sathan . seeing it is christians ( not the devils vassals ) who as they are once to lay it , so are not to lay again the foundation . as for wicked men , they will persecute the saints again and again , and so christians must have the hands of wicked men laid on them again and again ; and that when they are gone on to perfection , as well as when they begin their profession , so then this laying on of hands , he● . . being but once to be laid , cannot be that which the wicked do impose ; sith it s certain as they do it often , so sure it is , they ought not to do it so much as once . again , the laying on of hands by the wicked , to per●●cute the saints , is the doctrine of the devil . ergo , no principle of the d●ctrine of christ . ergo , not that laying on of hands mentioned , heb. . . argument . laying on of hands , heb. . . was held and practised by the primitive church , as a principle of christs doctrine ; ergo , it ought to be held and practised as a principle of christs doctrine now , by the subsequent churches . the antecedent is proved above , therefore the consequence is indubitable ; which yet i may demonstrate thus . argument . none of the principles of christs doctrine ( which were practical ) are abolished , no more then those which are not practical . ergo , laying on of hands as a practical principle , heb. . . ought now to be practised by the servants of christ . the antecedent cannot be denied , without manifest danger to all the principles of christs doctrine ; for if one be abolished , then why not the rest ? so then the consequence must not be denied . the third branch of my position proved , viz. that the laying on of hands , heb. . . is a part of the foundation there mentioned . but first , for explication of the word [ foundation ] it is to be considered ; that when it is applied to christianity ; or the church of god ; it may be considered first originally , and in the main , and so christ our lord is only the foundation . or secondly , demonstratively , or in the mean ; and so his doctrine may be said to be the foundation , by an usual manner of speech , when the thing containing or holding forth is taken for the thing contained or held forth . for , whatsoever christ is in himself , certain it is , he is not a foundation to vs . but as he is held forth in his doctrine , heb. . , , &c. hence i argue , argument . the word foundation , heb. . . cannot be refer'd to christ , as the foundation of his church , originally , or in the main , or in the highest or most sublime consideration . ergo , the word [ foundation ] is refer'd to the doctrine of christ , in the first , or most easie demonstration ; to wit , the first rudiments , or principles of religion ; even such as babes in christ may know them . the antecedent is true , otherwise what shall we think of paul. would he not teach the christians concerning the knowledge of christ in the more sublime points of christianity ? surely he professes to do this , at the time he wrote to them ; and indeed , how else could he lead them on to perfection ? heb. . . and . . so that our consequence is very rational . argument . the word foundation , heb. . . is comprehensive of all these particulars , to wit , faith , repentance , &c. ergo , the word foundation , heb. . . is comprehensive of laying on of hands , heb. . . as well as any of the rest . that the antecedent is true , may in part be perceived by the searchers themselves ; for they were more rational than to deny , the word foundation to be meant , of this or that particular only ; and grant it to be meant of the rest . therefore they would have none of the said particulars to be understood by , or comprehended in the word foundation , but restrain it only to christ ; which yet is contrary to their own opinion , sith they have since granted , laying on of hands , heb . . to be a part of the foundation . the consequence is good , because no reason can be assigned , why the doctrine of baptism should be a part of the foundation there meant , rather than the promise of the holy spirit , with the way of god to seek for it . argument . the apostle in heb. . . describes the foundation in its several parts . but it is irrational in such a description , to intermix two purticulars in the midst of four , th● two first , and two last , being fundamental , an● the two middlemost circumstantial ( or what els● would you have them . ) and yet give us no intimation of any such unsuitable commixtion . ergo , laying on of hands is one part of th● foundation , which is mentioned , heb. . , . t. g. the second part . of the constitution of a true church . neither are the demands of our brethren , about what truths , the knowledge whereof are necessary to the constitution of a true church , so difficult ; but that we shall give them a direct answer , at least to a larger degree , than what they in that case have assigned ; for they only set down faith , repentance and baptism , with a holy life , &c. omitting not only the fourth principle of christs doctrine , ( though they confess laying on of hands , heb. . . to be a part of the foundation ) but also they omit the belief of the resurrection , and the eternal judgment . if it should be said that they comprehend the two last principles in that of faith towards god , we must tell them they had better by far have expressed them ; for certainly in this case we cannot be too express , if we express nothing but the truth . but to be plain , it 's justly suspected that they do not make the knowledge or belief of the resurrection and eternal judgment necessary to the essence of a true church ; for if they had , they would some where or other have asserted these truths to be necessary in that behalf ; which they have not done , but rather argued to the contrary , whiles they reason from the state of the church before christs ascension to the state of the church after it , as we shall see more anon . these things premised , i answer directly to their demands , ( in this case ) that the belief and practice ( so far as they are practical ) of all these principles or truths , heb. . , . are necessary to the right or perfect constitution of a true church , which i thus demonstrate . all the first principles of gods oracles ( from the time they were in being ) are necessary to be known , believed , &c. in the constitution of a true church : ergo , all those trutbs , heb. . , . are necessary to be known , believed , &c. in the constitution of a true church . the antecedent i prove , because , first principles are either necessary in the constitution of a true church , or not at all . but first principles are necessary ; ergo , they are necessary in the constitution of a true church . this will yet further appear , by considering every principle apart after this manner . . if repentance from dead works be not necessary to the constitution or beginning of a true church , no man can shew a reason why it should be necessary at all . . if faith towards god be not necessary to the constitution of a true church , then not at all . . if baptisms be not necessary to be taught , &c. in the constitution of a true church , then not at all . . if laying on of hands for the promised and sealing spirit be not necessary in the constitution of a true church , then not necessary at all . , . if the knowledge that the dead shall rise again and be judged , be not necessary in the constitution of a true church , then not necessary at all . and therefore i argue further . milk is necessary for babes , or mankind in his first estate ; ergo , all th●se principles , heb. . , . are necessary to churches in their beginning , or constitution . the antecedent is evident by sense , the consequence is true , because all the principles , heb. . , . are called milk , heb. . . and that which pertains to babes in christ , and consequently to the constitution of churches . again , if the principles of religion be not to be taught in the beginning of our christian state , no man can tell the time when these things ought to be taught . for pass but the time of the beginning , plantation , or founding of churches , and let our brethren resolve us concerning the proper time to begin to teach the principles of religion , and particularly , that principle of laying on of hands ? mean while we conclude , that the proper time to instruct men concerning the promise of the spirit , and consequently touching the means to obtain it , is at or about the time of their beginning their christian course , or being made the members of christs body , because every member of that body ought to be vivified by that one spirit , which god hath promised to them that obey him . again , the whole foundation is necessary to the constitution of a true church ; ergo , all the principles , heb . are necessary to the constitution of a true church . the anteoedent will never be denyed by any wise builder , for they know the superst●ucture is not like to be secure , if the foundation be defective the consequence is good , because every principle , heb. . is a part of the foundation , and so laying on of hands among the rest , as is granted on all sides . nor will our brethrens demands grounded on the state of the church before the ascention of our lord , prejudice ought that we have said , seeing it is evident , that they were not only ignorant of the promise of the spirit , and by what means it should be obtained , but they were plainly ignorant that christ must die for the sins of men , and rise again for their justification , as appears luke . , , , , , , , , . and he [ that is jesus ] said unto them [ that is his disciples ] what things ? and they said unto him concerning jesus of nazareth , which was a prophet mighty indeed , and word before god , and all the people . and the chief priests and how our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death , and have crucified him ; but we trusted that it had been he that should have delivered israel . and beside all this , to day is the third day since these things were done ; yea , and certain women also of our own company , made us astonished , which were early at the sepulchre , and when they found not his body , they came , saying that they had also sein a vision of angels , which said that he was alive . and certain that was with us went to the sepulcher , and found it even as the women had said , but him they saw not ; then he said [ that is jesus ] unto them , [ that is his disciples ] o fools , and slow of heart , to believe all that the prophets have spoken , ought not christ to have suffered these things . hence these three things are evident . . that christs disciples were ignorant that he should work mans deliverance by dying for them . . that he should overcome death by rising again from the dead . . that christ both reproves their ignorance , and instructs them in the knowledge of the scriptures touching these principles . now let us see what our brethren have gained by quering from the state of the church before , to the state of the church after the ascension of our lord ; surely not an hairs-breadth of proof , that laying on of hands should be dispensed with in the perfect constitution of a true church , any more than that the knowledge of christs dying for our sins , and rising again for our justification , may be dispensed with in like manner . but howsoever it was the pleasure of god to wink at the days of this ignorance , yet surely we know that men are not now under the promise of salvation , unless they confess with the mouth the lord jesus [ that is , not to cry lord lord only , but acknowledge him their lord purchaser , and their lord commander ] and shall believe in their heart that god hath raised him from the dead : whence we conclude , if they be not under the promise of salvation , they are very unfit for church-communion . and here we will take notice of your demand , where the apostles laid hands upon any after they had received the holy ghost ? the ground of this demand seems to be corrupt in two respects ; first , in that it supposeth , that if the end of an ordinance be obtained , the ordinance ceaseth . the contrary to which is evident in the case of baptism , acts . , . for baptism in the ordinary way of gods communicating the graces of the gospel is antecedent to the reception thereof , & is propounded as a means wherein not only the remission of our sins shall be granted to us , but as a condition whereupon we shall receive the gift of the holy ghost , acts. . . yet we know the spirit was ( once at least ) given , and received before baptism was dispensed , yea those persons had the chief end of baptism ; for god that knew their hearts did now evidence the remission of their sins , purifyng their hearts by faith , acts . yet did not all this in the least make void that solemn ordinance , the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , which was fore-ordained to signifie and sacramentally to confer the grace of the pardon of sin , and the inward washing of the conscience by faith in the bloud of jesus christ . if then the end of an ordinance being obtained , doth not make void the practick part ( during the time that the church is under ordinances ) then who can forbid prayer with the imposition of hands , for the gift of the promised spirit , even for those that have received a measure thereof already , seeing none will say ( i trust ) that they have received so much , but that they are capable of receiving more . again , it is the will of god that there should be no schism in the body , nor confusion in the doctrine or practice of his holy things , cor. . . rom. . cor. . and therefore hath not ordained a divided or confused order in the constitution of his churches , which yet cannot be avoided , if once it be allowed that part of a congregation ( under a pretence that they have the spirit or gift of the holy ghost already ) must be admitted to all manner of priviledges in the church , without any regard had to an ordinance , or principle of the gospel , without the observation whereof , the other part cannot arrive at the priviledge of communion in the same body , without being guilty of the breach of order . a weak sight may perceive whither such a conceit would lead us at last , even into that wilderness whither many are gone , who ( forsooth ) because they have the kernel , to wit , the spirit , they have no need of the shell , to wit , the ordinance of god [ as if that spirit which leads men into disobedience were the holy ghost ] till at length they have so much spirit , that the knowledge of christ crucified without the gates of ierusalem , is of as little esteem with them as his ordinances . the other corrupt ground of this demand seems to be an over-weaning conceit of present receivings , and hath too much of that language , what pr●fit shall we have if we pray unto him ? and seems to border much upon their apprehensions , who concerning holy baptism do thus speak , i am as well as water can make me . not considering that the way of god is strength to the upright ; and that g●d never said to his people seek 〈◊〉 me in vain . the ground therefore of this demand being thus corrupt , we shall leave it without further answer . we shall seriously consider the most impor●ant pinch of a great part of our brethrens demands ; and that is , whether they ought not to be steemed a true church , they being under the pre●●ssion of faith , repentance , and baptism , refol●ing to believe and do further what they shall from ●●me to time understand to be according to the will ● go● ? these latter words ( i confess ) do make a fair shew , yet are as little satisfactory to us with respect to the truth under consideration , as the like resolution would be to them , from such persons of other perswasions as should desire communion with them , only desiring to be born with , in the case of holy baptism , till they see it to be their duty ; though in the mean time , they frequently dispute and write against it , and do more than any other adversaries whatsoever , to weaken the hands of many christians , who religiously observe it , as necessary to the perfect constitution of the church of christ . i say , like as this kind of resolution , would little comfort our brethren , so doth the other as little comfort us , till we see them in good earnest more solicitous for the knowledge of the truth which they see not , than hitherto ( or at least than by this their search ) they have appeared to be . but notwithstanding this , and much more of like nature which might be said , i shall answer this demand with all integrity and ingenuity : and first negatively . that those baptized christians who reject prayer with the laying on of hands , for the spirit o● promise , hath a church-state perfect in principles and orderly in constitution , according to he● . . , . [ which i take to be a plat-form for the constitution of churches , if there be one in all the new testament ] i say , that our brethren hath such a constitution , or church-state i must plainly deny , and for the grounds of this denyal i dare refer my self ( if not to the consciences of our differing brethren yet ) to the reasons and scripture-evidences preceding : but secondly , that our brethren have a church-state in some good measure according to truth ; i must and do chearfully grant , like as i must grant him to be a man in respect of the genus , who wants an hand , or foot ; as also in respect of that measure of form and proportion which he holds with other men , and yet deny the same person to be a man in respect of the species or parts , which are necessary to the perfect essence , composition and form of a man. or as i may call an edifice by the name of an house , though it want not only much of its compleatness in respect of the superstructure ( as god knows all churches do ) but also though it be somway defective , by reason of the absence of some material part of the foundation , which defect no churches ( but by reason of their wilful want ) need to have ; for though it is certainly true , ●hat we cannot do the things which we would , in going on to perfection ( at least according to the highest import of that expression ) by reason of the manifold obstructions within and without , yet doubtless we may learn all the rudiments or first principles of christianity , maugre the opposition of sathan and all his auxiliaries ; otherwise it will follow that we cannot exceed the stature of babes in christ . and that we may improve our simile ( by which we have explained our selves in answer to the most important of our brethrens demands ) for the defence of the truth under debate . let it be considered , that look how far forth such a necessary member as the hand , &c. doth conduce , not only to the well-being , but even to the very being of the body natural , so far doubtless the least foundation principle of christianity , conduceth not only to the well-being , but to the very being of the church of christ ; and consequently as he that taketh a member from the body natural ( be it hand or other member ) detracteth somewhat from the being of such a body , even so , he that taketh away from the principles or foundation of christianity , doth intrench upon the being of the body mystical . now , that the laying on of hands , heb. . . is such a principle as is a part of the foundation , &c. is granted by our brethren ( as we have heard ) and therefore we do with good right stand for it , as necessary even to the essence of a church , in such sort as we have even now declared . and , that that very laying on of hands , heb. . , . is that which we hold it to be , and ●ccordingly do practise , we trust is sufficiently loved before , and that as by other arguments , so also by this ; namely , because no other lay●ng on of hands practised by our brethren , or ●ny body else , can with any shew of truth or reason be called the fourth principle of christs doctrine , or milk for babes in christ . our brethren do seem to be very sensible ●ow that the removal or extirpation of any o●her of the principles , heb. . would leave ( if ●ot mortality yet ) a dangerous wound or grie●ous maime in the body of religion ; and ●herefore could they but once humbly consider , ●hey would certainly see that their rooting out ●he fourth principle , is very injurious to the body of that doctrine contain'd in those prin●iples , heb. . , . were our brethren only wanting in respect ●f the truth we plead for , the case were the more tollerable ; but now , together with their ●eing wanting , they are become the enemies , ●nd greatest opposers of it . it is certainly ( o ●e searchers ) your opposition to the truth which we profess , which is , and ever was the chief cause of our divisions , as is evident by what is to be seen in several congregations , where , they being imbodyed before they saw this truth , yet abstaining from opposition an● contradiction , have very much christian communion , though they d●●●er in their apprehe●sions about the point depending . it is our saviours rule , he that is not against 〈◊〉 is on our part ; whence it will follow , that he is n● on our part who is against us : but then ( our br●thren ) are the men ( and in a manner the on● men ) which are against us in this point ● faith ; and this is it which hath made tw● parties , where indeed there should have be●● but one . you see then brethren , that we lay t●● ground of our non-communion with yo● more upon your opposing the truth we hold , tha● upon your non-submission to it . yea beshre● your late opposition discovered in your late u●seasonable and partial search : for had it n● been for that , we had gained some grou●● ( through the help of god ) of our long dissen●●ons and unhappy distractions . had you ( or at least many of you ) carry●● it humbly and peaceably as men desirous know the truth , it may be easie for you know how dear you had been to us , when y●● consider how much it was upon our hearts , imbrace you in as large a degree of communion we could possible , without violation of our principle● meerly upon consideration of your ( as 〈◊〉 thought ) very christian-like offers in order to peace , viz. that you would not only permit , but desire us to preach up the principle under consideration in your congregations , but also that you would cease your opposition against it . and though it is true , our endeavours for peace went slowly on ( you know the cause ) yet you ought to have had patience , for things which are carryed on with least violence , are commonly most permanent . and here i should have given the reader no further trouble about this particular , but that the searchers are pleased to upbraid , and very strangely to reflect dishonour upon some among us , and upon us all for their sakes , as if we made not only many more fundamentals and essentials to communion , then ever god made ; but that we are so eagerly set upon making every thing fundamentall , as that every circumstantial thing is by us ready to be received into the adoption of fundamentals . but , what the searchers should mean to suggest by their demands , as if we made mixed marriages ; the ●ating of bloud and things strangled : matters of apparel ; and the taking an oath to end strife , the essentials and fundamentals of churches , i cannot so much as imagine , unless it be to make themselves ( as well as their brethren ridiculous in the eyes of their adversaries . however a necessity lyeth upon us to give the reader not only a true account of the received doctrine of the church touching these matters , but also the grounds or reasons thereof ; least otherwise being prejudiced with their strange reflections , their souls should be insnared in these enormities . and first concerning mixed marriages , thus we teach , that it is unlawful ( by the positive 〈◊〉 of god ) for those that are members of the visibl● church of god , to marry with th●se that are no● of that body . and for this we have the consent o● holy scripture , declaring the will of god here in , ever since he chose a people out of the fal● race of adam to be his church . as appears by his revengeful stroke on those his sons , who i● the days of noah took unto themselves wives o● those who were only the daughters of men ; bu● not such as were born from above . gen. ▪ , , . to which we will add our sav●ours premonition and prediction , that the si● of the last days will be like their's in the days o● noah , luke ▪ . , to . and particularly i● the case of marriage ; for it cannot be that ou● saviour in that place should be opposite t● marriage , a● it is instituted of god for man use , no more than he is against eating an● drinking lawfully , but it is the sins of me● committed in these actions respectively , whic● he disalloweth . how much the lord disallowed such marriages in the time of the law is evident , exod. . , , , , . deut. ▪ . king. . , . neh. . and that the same transgression in the time of the gospel ought to be avoided , cannot be denyed , cor. . . and . . cor. . . and that the nature of the sin committed by persons so unlawfully coupled is a carnal pollu●●on ( to say no more ) cannot be withstood , but by such as trust more to their own arguments then to the scripture , seeing the law which forbids members of the church to marry with those that are not , deut. . . is interpreted of the very act , king. . , . thou shalt not 〈◊〉 in unto them , &c. and for further light in this matter , read and consider these scriptures , act. . . mal. . , . rev. . . as in this case the scriptures are plain to him that is not perverse , so we have the con●ent of the generality of men professing christianity , both ancient and modern , to o●it the manifold testimonies that might be ●rought , i will only set down two ; the first ●aith thus . marriage is not only grounded on the law of nature and nations , but also on the law of god ; 〈◊〉 it was instituted and commanded by god , and 〈◊〉 by christ vindicated from abuses and corruptions . — in which , regard must be had to religion , that marriage be not made between those of different religions . it is one thing to speak of marriage already made ; and of that which is to be made ; of the former the apostle speaks , cor. . but the latter is most severely prohibited , exod. . . &c. deut. . . where a reason is rendred taken from the danger of seducing , to which pauls saying agrees , cor. . . be not unequally yoked with the wicked , or bear not the strange yoke with unbelievers . sad examples we have of the events of such marriages of the first world , gen. . of solomon , king. . of ahab , king. . . of jehosaphat , king. . of valence the emperour , who by his wife was seduced and drawn to arianism . it is not lawful for catholicks to marry with hereticks or infidels . rhemists testament , in cor. . . where they also refer to st. jerom. contra jocinian lib. . and to the council at ●●aodicea , cap. . . neither may it be inferred of these things which we have said that persons thus transgressing , must put away their yoke-fellows , no , god forbid that any should so imagine ; for though it is true , god suffered that sin once to be so severely punished , yet he hath no where by any standing law enjoyned such a penalty ; but on the contrary , hath permitted such marriages to continue as have been unlawfully made , as is evident in the case of leah , who was fraudulently given to jacob , by which means rachel the lawful spouse was withheld from her husband . shall mortal man be more just than god ? shall man be more righteous then his maker , job . . nothing can be said , why the marriage of leah to jacob should stand , that will not as well argue the continuance of the marriages of such as err in the case of their choice as aforesaid , the sin being rather greater in the one , than in the other ; for it was not lawful to marry two sisters ▪ especially not in the life-time of each other . there was also in this act the sin of fornication or adultery . the learned protestants affirm the sin to be adultery . see dr. willet in his hexapla in gen . upon this text. again , poligamy ( or having more wives than one ) was neither according to the insti●ution of marriage , nor warranted by any positive law of god , but is rather against it . and had its rise ( so far as the scripture bears record ) from a wicked man , yet divers such marriages were permitted ( when contracted ) though never commanded , and so never lawful by any appointment of god. when the sin of marrying unlawfully was punished , by separating the persons so coupled , the children also was put away as well as the wives , which howsoever it might stand with the state of the jewish church ( and perhaps was necessary in respect of their terrestrial inheritances , and the policy of their nation ) yet surely it would be great cruelty for men professing christianity , to turn their wives and children out of doors , who both by the law of nature , and nations have as clear a right to all temporal or domestical priviledges now , as the husband himself in any nation whatsoever . finally , sith god hath grievously punished this sin of marrying contrary to his positive laws in that case , provided for his peoples good , chiefly in things pertaining to the worship and service of god , let all christians therefore stand in aw , and sin not , but commune with their own hearts in this behalf , least they provoke the lord to plead against them by his judgments , for his eyes are upon the ways of men ; to render to them the fruit of their doings . chiefly those , who sin presumptuously , for such do reproach the lord , as it is written numb . , . in the next place , on ching bloud and ●hings strangled , we know the wisdom of god hath forbidden the eating thereof to noah and his sons for ever . and when men had generally forgotten the lord , he severed abraham and his seed to be his heritage , and gave them this law to observe ( among others ) which law he hath established in the churches of the gen●●les in those right needful decrees , which doth declare the repeal of the cerimonial law , and gives continuance to what was generally necessary , upon the delivery whereof the churches were established in that f●ith , by which a man is justifyed , and not by the works of the law. true it is that which g●e●h into the man , defileth not a man , and consequently bloud doth not defile any man by eating thereof . but disobedience which proceedeth from an unlawful desire to that which god hath forbidden , and so cometh out of the man , that defileth a man ; so then , not the fruit which adam did eat , but the sin which he committed defiled him , and the same will defile his posterity , if they covet and take the thing which god hath forbidden . the doctrine of our churches about apparel is this , that the adorning of christians ought not to be that of plating the hair , wearing of gold , nor costly array , with rings and toys , as the humour of phantastick persons in city or country commonly leads them . but that instead thereof , moderation , modesty , and yet decency , according to the state and condition of persons respectively , should be observed on all sides , that so christians might be examples to others , even in these matters . and what though some person or persons in the church be more than ordinary set against the vain fashions of our days , and sometimes lets their zeal go a step too far , is this so offensive to our brethren , that they can no way bear this without such a publick reprehension ? i fear in so doing they may have done the church more disservice , then those whom they inveigh against . what the searchers should mean about these matters being made the ess●ntials of communion , i cannot imagine , unless they would have us to suffer men to sin in these cases without being called upon to reform , and in case of obstinacy to be withdrawn from by the church , as disorderly persons , that they may learn to be ashamed , ( yet we mean not that they should be accounted as enemies , but admonished as brethren ) and surely , if this be their meaning , that offenders in these cases must be let alone in their sins ; we should in so doing loose the order , and in time the essence of churches . for suppose now a gallant of the times should desire to be baptized , and to walk in communion with the searchers , only he tells them they must give him leave to marry out of the church , and allow him the liberty to transgress the apostolical decrees , in eating bloud and things strangled , and meats offered to idols : and therewithall that he may wear gold , and tread the steps of the gallants in matters of apparel , &c. would the searchers now admit such a person into their communion ? if not , then they make these things as necessary to church-communion as we do : and certainly that which is ground sufficient to keep men out of the church , will justifie a church in withdrawing from such , if they refuse to reform . to give evidence by oath , to terminate strife among men , we have not one congregation in england ( that i can hear of ) doth oppose it , ( indeed some particular persons are doubtful in that matter , because of our saviours words , swear not at all ) and therefore it was very unnecessarily put to publick observation , as an essential of our church-communion . what the searchers do suggest against some , as denying that christ took flesh of the virgin mary , is , i confess , a matter of great importance . and sure i am , many of our congregations never heard of such a thing , till the searchers became their informers : nor do i think there is so much as one congregation in england that holds such a thing ( for particulars no man may speak ) however upon this occasion i can do no less then protest against that opinion as a most dangerous conceit ; nothing inferiour to theirs that deny that glorious and blessed person to be god by nature ; for as the one denies his manhood , the other denies his godhead , and so between them we have little left to fix on , for our redemption and salvation . and as i have shewed my dislike to these conceits ( to say no more at present ) so i hold it requisite to protest my faith in this case , as i have been taught , and as i have believed , and as ( i trust ) i shall hold fast unto the end . that faith which i have learned ( and is the faith of our churches generally ) is this , first . that the - lord jesus , the saviour of the world is god by nature , and therefore of one substance with the father as touching his godhead . he is called the only begotten of the father . the express image of his fathers person . the true god and eternal life . the lord almighty . it is he by whom the worlds were made . without him nothing was made , which was made . he is that very lord who in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the work of his hands . he is the alpha and omega , the first , and the ●●st . he is said to be before all things , and by ●im all things consist . he is the i a m ; who ●eing in the form of god , thought not robbery ●o be equal with god. he is god over all bles●ed forever amen . i conclude then , that he of ●hom these things are spoken , is doubtless god by nature . ● . this lord jesus the saviour of the world is man 〈◊〉 nature . he was made lower then the angels , 〈◊〉 took not on him the nature of angels , but 〈◊〉 seed of abraham he is of one substance with ●is church touching his manhood ; and for ●hat cause he is not ashamed to call them bre●●ren . as they are partakers of flesh and ●loud , he also himself likewise took part of the ●●me . he was made of a woman , raised up 〈◊〉 the fruit of davids loins according to the ●●esh . he is davids son , called frequently a ●an ; and the son of man. he had the pro●erties and infirmities of man in all things , sin ●xcepted . this his birth , growth , manner of life and death do declare . i conclude then , he of whom these things may be said , is man by nature . the short is this . jesus the saviour of the world was before al● things , and he that made all things , therefore he i● god by nature , jesus the saviour of the worl● was born in time , and suffered death , or was slain 〈◊〉 therefore he is man by nature , yet more shortly this jesus is immanuel , or god-man in on● person . the third part. sheweth that our brethrens rejecting and opposing the fourth principle of christs doctrine , enforceth a distinction in communion ( at least in part ) between them , and th● churches which walketh in the religious observatio● of it ; and that all divisions which happen in th● church are not properly , but accidentally again●● her : as also that it is no absurdity to refuse to communicate with a people who may be allowed the appellation of a church . as it must ever be granted that a kingdom divided against it self is brought to desolation : and is very true when apply'd to the church of god , where divisions are as epidemical as in ●ny societies of men whatsoever : so also it must be denyed that all manner of divisions which happen within the pale of the church ●re property against her self . for seeing it cannot be denyed , but that she may be and hath been corrupted divers ways ●●om her first integrity , both in respect of the ●orm and power of godliness , even hence is en●orced , a necessity that ●he be * reformed . where●pon divers worthy men in all ages have laboured 〈◊〉 restore the decayed parts if christianity , as well as to ●oot out such things as ●ave been obtruded by innovation . and surely ●hat was the duty of some , was ( more or less ) ●he duty of all : and consequently the sin of ●●ch as put not their shoulder to the work , ●eh . . . but much more theirs , who not on●y would not do it themselves , but hinder and ●iscourage them that would . saying in effect , 〈◊〉 the corrupt part of the church of old did in the days of the prophet jer. . , . as for the word which thou h●st spoken unto us in the name of the lord , we will not hearken unt● thee , but we will certainly do as we have done ; 〈◊〉 and our fathers , &c. putting the mark of antiquity upon their own ways , and the note o● novelty upon the doctrine of the prophet o● god. something like to which is that saying of the searchers where they tell us , they ca● well remember when laying on of hands was no● esteemed a fundamental doctrine , which yet 〈◊〉 have reason to question , when i consider tha● themselves do hold ( and say they ever di● hold ) laying on of hands , he● . . to be 〈◊〉 part of the foundation ; and i think non● of its assertors ever had less esteem o● it , then they . neither doth the moderation of its assertors in the point of communion ( which it seems they held with thos● that did not receive that doctrine , for som● time after themselves had owned it ) argue● that those who received ●he doctrine of layin● on of hand , did not esteem it the same whic● now they do . sith reason wills that when an● part of the church of god attains to th● knowledge of any principles of truth , which by the corruption of the times , hath been obscured they should exercise all long-suffering an● forbearance , to see if by any means the contrary minded may be enlightned . but now , if after all endeavours used , and patience extended , some part of the church remain wholly av●r●e to reformation , and that in such weighty matters as the principles of religion , it cannot be reasonable ( nor is it scrip●ural ) * that those whom god hath enlight●ed , should be bound to continue with the ●bstinate in their by-paths ; but must at length ●eclare themselves in manner of speech like ●hat of joshuah , if it seem evil to you to serve 〈◊〉 lord , in this principle of his doctrine , chuse 〈◊〉 what you will do , but as for us we are resolved ●●rein to serve the lord : agreeable whereunto 〈◊〉 that direction of the ●ord to the * remnant ●hat held to the truth with ●heir whole heart , jer. . ● . let them return to thee , 〈◊〉 return not thou to them . ●hence i note four things , considerable to ●ur present occasion . . that the parties here spoken of , were ●oth of the church of god. . that there was a difference between ●●em , touching some necessary part of religi●● . . that the lord allows this division , and ●●courageth the continuation of it on the part of those that served him perfectly , or according to his word . . that the church-state of neither part is ( as yet ) taken wholly away or destroyed ; and therefore hence i infer this conclusion . that in a time of the●● * churches defection in the principles , or any necessary part of religion , there may lawfully be held a distinction in communion , between th● part defective , and that which is sound or reformed , and ye● the church state of neither wholly destroyed . and b● how much the principles 〈◊〉 points of faith are greater or l●sser , by so much thi● distinction is to be maintain'd with greater or les● severity . this i might confirm by the consideration of the state of the jewish church , under thos● great distractions which happen'd among the● sometimes about principles of truth , referring immediately to the majesty of heaven hos . . . and otherwhiles about those which being neglected , would greatly impair the power o● godliness among men , iud● . . chu● . i● which distractions the faithful laboured as i● were in the very fire to reform the part distempered , without destroying their church-state , judg. . and . chapters , jer. . . to . during which combustions , there must needs be a demur in the point of communion between the parts contending , as may ●asily be gathered from their bitter and sangui●●ry conflicts , if our very reason did not con●ince us . but leaving the many and convincing allega●●ons which might be brought from the state of the jewish church , who were not denyed ●hat appellation , though under such defile●ents as rendred them unfit to celebrate the ●oly rites and mysteries of the law , and ●herefore consequently very unfit for commu●ion with those who withstood their polluti●ns , which may sufficiently satisfie reasonable ●en ( and therefore the searchers themselves ) ●hat it is no absurd thing to grant a pe●ple the ap●ilation of a church , and yet hold them uncapable 〈◊〉 communion with such of the churches or congr●●tions of christ as are free from these corrup●ions . i will descend to those grounds which ●re more familiar to us , and then see how it ●ay reach the case depending between the ●earchers and their brethren . and first from acts . . it appeareth that ●here was not only great disputation , but dissention also in the primitive churches about matters of doctrine , which word * dissention doth imply the discontinuance o● communion between paul , ba●n●bas , with those which did adhere to them ▪ and that part of the church which were zealous for circumcision and the law ▪ and yet we do not finde that they did one unchurch another , but used the most effectual means tha● might be to put an end to the strife . and very remarkable it is , that though the assembly a● jerusalem did plainly determine the point o● doctrine , yet did they forbear their censure against the persons who erred in that case 〈◊〉 chusing to exercise all longanimity , rather then severity ; knowing that their power was given more for edification● then for destroying any mans attainments in the paths of christianity . howbeit , when this lenity would not effect th● reformation of the ill manners of those corrupters or depravers of the gospel , then di● the apostle lay greater weight upon them , wh● would not cease to trouble the churches , gal. . . nor is there any reason to doubt but that the judaizers had ( generally ) been held at some distance in point of communion , or privileges in the churches before paul wrote to the gallatians . for seeing that epistle written by paul , si●vanus , and timotheus , did impower the church at thessalonica to note such as dis●beyed it , with a note of di●inction from the rest of the christians who conform'd themselves to its directions ; then doubtless that epistle , acts . written in the ●ame of the great assembly at jerusalem , did every way as much impower all churches to put ●he like note of distinction upon all that did not ●hey the same ; which note of distinction , howso●ver it might lie as a bar against their present communion , yet did it not destroy their bre●her-hood , thes . . , . so that it is further evident , that a people ●ay be esteemed brethren in christ , or a church 〈◊〉 christ , and yet justly be denyed communion ●●th other churches , or brethren in christ . for ●he matter in short lyeth thus . as a brother is 〈◊〉 member , in respect of that congregation or ●hurch to which he is immediately related . ●o , a particular congregation is but a member in respect of the church universal . as therefore a man may be called a christian brother , and yet justly ( for some cause ) be denyed present communion with his fellow brethren ; so , a congregation may be accounted a church of christ , and yet justly be denyed communion by her sister churches , and chiefly when she is such a church as causes divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which the primitive churches received from the apostles . all which being considered , may well serve to satisfie our brethren , that we commit no absurdity in refusing to communicate with them , though we grant them the appellation of the church of christ , and brethren in particular as before we have said . having shewed that al● manner of divisions which happen in the church , are not properly against her they being after a sort rather nec●ssary for her reformation , then to bring he● to desolation , when corruption in doctrin● or manners have made in vasions upon he● ( though it must needs be granted that eve● those divisions are accidentally against th● church , and that as for other causes , so chiefly , for that they are a scandal to the world and a stumbling to weak christians . ) it behoveth that we briefly shew what we mean by divisions which are properly against the church , and they are such as these . . when both parties contending strive to set up some sinful thing , or their own devices . . when they divide about that which is not necessary , but indifferent only . . when the point in question is not so much the thing sought for as revenge upon the persons against whom the controversie is held . those and such like tend only to the ruine of churches , having no tendency at all to edification . the first of these shewed it self among the corinthians , when they strove to set up men ; some this man , and others that , and this in opposition one unto another , cor. . . which folly hath been the overthrow of congregations , where mens persons have been admi●ed , and truth neglected . the second is rebuked , rom. . but why dost thou judge thy brother , or set at nought thy brother ? ( meaning for things indifferent ) therefore who art thou that judgest another mans servant ? to his own master he stands or falls , yea he shall be holden up , for god is able to make him stand . the third is detected , gal. . . for whatsoever the question was , this was their sin , they did bite one another . thus men may hold the truth in unrighteousness , and without charity , preach christ meerely of envy to add thereby some affliction to the bonds of their brethren . those kind of divisions in the ages bordering upon the apostles became the heathens sport ( and the christians shame ) upon their ●pen theaters . let us therefore now return to consider the nature of that distemper which hath befallen our body about the fourth principle of christ his doctrine , heb. . . the searchers have declared it to be the sin of schism ; and the part distempered to be only the congregations under the practice of laying on of hands , as is evident from the whole contexture of their search , and the directon of the epistle prefixed to it , as if there were nothing amiss in this matter on their part who ( if i may so speak ) have made ( and defended ) a schism in the principles of the doctrine of our lord , and there withall divided themselves from a principle thereof . and this word schism is taken by the searchers not in a mild sense , such as wherein it may be taken by propriety of speech to signifie division in some lower consideration , as the word is translated , cor. . . but they have hoysed it in their application of it to the congregations , professing the fourth principle to the most extream signification , even that of sedition ; yea to such a degree , as if we unchurched * all churches but our selves . as if it were a light matter to brand all those churches for schismaticks . but they should have considered that bare abstaining from communion , chiefly at the table of the lord ( which is all that hath been done generally , if so much have been done ) and that upon such immergent occasion , as hath ( at least in the time of hot contention ) been given for it , is far from being sufficient to bear them out in this their rash charge against their brethren . seeing our saviour himself puts a bar for coming to the altar , while differences between brother and brother , only remains undecided , which being duly considered , may justly cause the sober christian to be afraid of such a communion as ( i perceive ) the searchers would ( hand ov●r head ) involve us into . now , what hath been done by some particular persons among us in respect of church-rendings , or unchurching other churches through ignorance or preposterus zeal , as i do not perfectly know , so i will not in any wise go about to justifie . but sure i am , it is no good ground for you to asperse all our congregations with such mens actions ; no more then the like preposterous actions by some among you ( for such there hath been , both particular persons and congregations ) will justifie us to fasten the like reproach upon you , which hitherto we have not done , nor intend to take the advantage of your procreation to do it now . and what though there hath been ( during the time of these contentions and oppositions ) a distinction in communion between the congregations aforesaid , held to be needful , at least in some things ( wherein christians communicating one with another , cannot be very comfortable without unity in their doctrine and practice ) yet sure this hath been done ( generally ) without contracting the guilt of schism on either side , in respect of all such as in the midst of all these dissentions , have maintain'd the great engagement of charity towards one another . and for those that have not so done , it s justly feared the guilt hath been as great on the one side , as on the other . this distinction in communion , hath been held ( i presume ) by all wise christians , rather of necessity , then for any delight they have had in it , partly for that the truth in question would otherwise have been slighted as a thing but at most indifferent ; and there is no readier way to destroy any truth , then to let it pass with such an estimation . and partly , for that contention would ever have been rising between members of the same particular community , and no means remaining to pacifie those divisions . for , what pious pastor of the church can justifie his admitting some to the lords table without imbracing ( nay though opposing ) the fourth principle of christianity , and yet with the same breath deny another that liberty ? the truth is , this disparity in judgment and practice must admit of one thing out of two ( at least so long as the spirit of contradiction worketh , ) viz. either that the parties dissenting may sit down in distinct congreations , without the offence or grudging one against another , or else it must admit of dispencing with most of the principles of our religion , one by one till indeed we have none left intire ; as will appear by singling them apart , and yielding to each opinionist the plea which our brethren do use in the case depending , which in effect is this . why should we not sit down at the lords table with you ; seeing we own all the principles of christs doctrine as you do ( which yet i fear , &c. ) except the fourth ? and as touching that , we say and believe , that the laying on of hands in heb. . . is a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the founlation ; yet we deny that laying on of hands , which you hold to be that principle . this plea being admitted , a second comes and pleads thus , let us build with you , for we own all the principles of religion , heb. . , . as you do , except that of faith , and yet we say faith is a principle according to heb. . . but we deny that faith which you say is there meant to be that principle . a third comes and says , we have right to sit down in communion with you , for we do own all the principles , heb. . only the doctrine of baptisms which you say is there meant , we deny to be a principle of christs doctrine , and do say that it is your own innovation or tradition , yet we own the doctrine of baptisms . a fourth pretends they own all the principles , &c. only that resurrection of the dead , which we say is a principle of christianity , they term an humane innovation , yet they profess to believe the resurrection . finally , there comes others and professes that they own all the principles of gods oracles , he● . . &c. but withall they deny with origen , that eternal judgment which we hold , and say that there shall be an universal salvation ; and yet they own with him a judgment which is eternal . and upon these pretensions they demand the priviledges of christians among us in all things . now admitting laying on of hands ( as we hold ) to be as undoubtedly a principle of christs doctrine , as any of the rest ( as that is our case . ) let our brethren resolve us how we shall dispense with them in rejecting and opposing that principle , and yet do nothing at all to the prejudice of any other principle , or part of the foundation ? certain it is ( as before we have hinted ) there is no artifice of sathan so likely to wear out this or any other truth , as to make it subject to the wills of men , viz. to admit men to the same degree of estimation and fitness for communion in the church , though they deny this truth , as if they owned it . and whilst our brethren are labouring with all their might to bring the fourth principle of christs doctrine to this state of subjection , others are as busily tampering with the doctrine of baptism and have prevailed to the great reproach of those christians who have suffered themselves and the truth to be thus abused . open opposition though too bad , yet is more advantagious to the truth , then such pretended friendship ; for truth being opposed , hath strength and authority to withstand its greatest adversary . but if once subtil men creep into the church under a specious pretense of waiting for the knowledge of such truths as they have a design to overthrow ; these prove the greatest prophaners and subverters of the ways of god in the world . and what devourer shall we be able to keep out ( that hath but craft to get in ) if once this door of dispensing with principles of religion be opened ? assuredly had those persons , acts the . ( the remission of whose sins was evidenced from heaven very eminently ) been admitted to communion , without submitting to the baptism of repentance for remission of sin ( as peters question , can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , which received the holy ghost ? seems to intimate that some such thought might possibly dart it self into the breasts of some . ) it had certainly made nul● that ordinance almost totally , for who doth not now a-days presently suppose himself to be baptized with the spiri● ? our brethren demand of us , whether those qualifications which gives right to b●ptism , do not give right to the lords table ? the answer is easie , for faith and repentance ( as they say ) gives right to baptism , but not so for the lords table , for though baptism be no qualification for it self , yet it is a very necessary qualification for the lords table . but that we may reach the utmost that can lie in this question , we answer further : and first , by granting that those that are rightly baptized , have thereupon a general right to all the priviledges and holy ordinances in the church of god ; and so to the lords table among the rest : but then secondly , we must distinguish between this general right , and a regular capacity for the immediate participation of these priviledges . the children of ephraim , &c. . chron. . , , . had a right to the passeover in general with the rest of the israelites , because they were circumcised , &c. yet sith they were not cleansed according to the purisication of the sanctuary , they were not in a regular capacity to eat the passeover with the rest of the israelites , therefore hezekiah made supplication for them , and it was permitted in that strait , ( for they could not do what they would because of the shortness of the time ) that they should eat the passeover otherwise then as it was written in the law , but this was an extraordinary case as we have shewed before . again , suppose i know that my brother hath something against me , when i am going to the lords table ; this doth not take away my right from the table of the lord which i have in general with other christians , only now i am not in a regular capacity to participate . and what though those that are baptized according to christs command have right to the lords table as aforesaid , yet may they not be preposterous in taking their right ; for there is an orderly way to partake of our priviledges . and we say and have proved that the next step * or principle in christianity to holy baptism , is , that we wait upon god in prayer with the imposition of hands for the holy spirit of promise . this our brethren do not only neglect , but they oppose it as an humane innovation . upon this , not a brother only , but the church hath something against them , they refuse to be reconciled , unless we allow them in their disobedience , at least so far as to leave undone that which is their duty to do : hence it appeareth , that whatsoever our brethren may say for themselves in respect of their right to the lords table , yet we find that in them , which ●uts them into an incapacity for their imme●iate participation ; at least with those congregations , who religiously observe that order ●herein the truths of god are proposed to be ●bserved . but here peradventure our brethren will ●y , they do not remember that we have ought a●ai●st them in this case ; to which it may be ●●swered , that makes the case never the bet●●r in respect of them that do know their er●our ; no more then my brothers justifying ●imself in his trespass against me , doth lessen his ●espass , which is so far from that , that in truth makes it greater , and there is now a necessity ●●at these two be reconciled before they sit ●●●wn at the lords table together . if yet it should be said , we take for granted the ●●ief thing denyed , viz. that our brethren are ●●fenders in the case depending . the answer first , this objection will help those that 〈◊〉 the baptism of repentance against our ●●ethren , for denying them communion in ●●eir , congregations , as much as it will help 〈◊〉 brethren against us , for though our bre●●ren say they offend in omitting that part of ●hrists doctrine , yet they deny it . . though 〈◊〉 brethren will needs suppose the case to be doubtful whether what we hold in the case d●●pending be true or no , it is out of doubt wit● us , and so much the more as by how much ou● brethren labour to raise new doubts and scruples about it , according to that true saying when black is rightly posited with white , then black 's most dark , and white doth shi●● most bright . the searchers insist much upon their offer in order to the accommodating the differen● depending . to which i answer , had they pe●sisted in that candour and condescending temper which lately some of them pretende● to . it is not doubed , but the end might ha●● been happy , provided that their hearts were 〈◊〉 right according to those pretensions . but to 〈◊〉 plain , by all that we can as yet understand , som● of them were more politick than pious in su●● their endeavours , of which let this their sear●● be an evidence to pesterity . for , even when 〈◊〉 were busily endeavouring to answer their co●● descending proposals , with the greatest co●plyance , which with a good conscience 〈◊〉 could , even then comes our brethren forth wi●● a fire-brand of schism and sedition , and claps on the backs of our congregations . 〈◊〉 therewithall arms themselves with the 〈◊〉 clandestine and subtil opposition against the principle under consideration , wherewith they have at any time ( so far as i know ) as yet advanced themselves against it , which yet will make as little for their credit , or the churches comfort , as their former attempts of this kind have done ( unless god whose wisdom can bring good out of evil , turn it to our advantage ) for no weap●n formed against the truth shall prosper . and though it is true there was some unhappy obstructions of our peace before they printed their search , so it is as true that the hypocrisie of some of the searchers was the cause thereof . nor need they make so much of their permitting the countrey elders to preach up laying on of hands among them , when they consider the hot opposition which some of them met with , as soon as they had done . and it s known from some of the most plain-hearted among them , that though we have been desired to preach the doctrine of laying on of hands among them , yet * it is more to please our humours ( which our souls abhor ) then that they have any expectation to see the truth by such preaching . neither is the complaint of our brethren just at this time , how that they , or many of them would have submitted to laying on of hands , did we not prohibit them communion with those , with whom they formerly walked ▪ for they know that what ever hath been , when contention was in the highest about this matter ; yet there hath been as much forbearance that way of late , as could reasonably be desired , and this condescention ( perhaps ) might still have encreased had you as you promised , seaced your opposition against the truth by us professed . but now you have revived the whole controversie , in most of the congregations in england : and therefore as the cause of our division at the first was much on their part , who divided the principles of christianity and themselves from a principle there of , so the revival , and aggravation ( with the prevention of our concurrance at least in many things ) will be found at the door of the searcher , when he searcheth well his own habitation . when we consider pau●s charge to timothy , to withdraw from such as had a form of godliness , denying the power thereof . and his command to the church at thessalonica , to withdraw from every brother that walketh disorderly ; we cannot but dislike the tendency of your th . demand , as if it would follow , that because there were some sinfully suffered in some churches of old , who taught gods people to commit fornica●ion , and to eat meats effired to idols , and to hold 〈◊〉 community of women ( a thing so beastly as scarce fit to be named ) therefore we may not withdraw from such churches as suffer such things . now ! when yet its evident that the lord charges those sins so deeply upon those that suffered those abominations , that without speedy repentance their church-state must be removed . but surely our brethren cannot be ignorant that the lord commends such of the churches in asia , as could not bear , but uncharched those that were evil , who said they were jews , and aposties , and were not , but were the synagogue of sathan : and how vehemently ●he reproves those that did not thus separate from such evil workers , whether congregations , or particular members , for sure there is but one law for few or for many in this case . true it is , that god had mercy for great offenders upon repentance , and there must be admoniton before they be spewed out of the mouth . but what will this avail their case , who being intreated and exhorted to turn from the errour of their way , and diligently taught concerning the truth , yet persist in their opposition . the slight exposition which the searchers gives us of john . . verses , is no more to be commended ( as i conceive ) then their adversaries unwary syllogism from thence : seeing it is not all that confess that jesus christ is come in the flesh , that hath fellowship with the father and the son. for that is the sense of the searchers , or else they must tell us how many of christs doctrines or teachings must be owned as necessary to mens communion with god and christ ; which will puzzle the searchers as much as any body else , their flourishes and reflexions against others notwithstanding . nor need we say much to our brethrens demands , which they ground on a supp●sition of the truth of our opinion , considering what we have said already , for if that we hold b● the truth , it is such a truth as may not be dispensed with or neglected without manifes● danger to the rest of the principles of religion as hath been shewed ; it shall therefore now suffice for the tryal of the consciences of ou● brethren in this matter , that we appeal t● them touching the like service in another case namely , the laying on of hands in the ordination of officers in the church , which some o● them will have to be that principle , heb. ● though others of them reject that as erroneous , s● that our brethren had lit●le cause to upbraid u● about some differing apprehensions about the end of that ministration , sith themselves are divided both about the end and the principle it self . i say , put case now , that some among you should deny the layng on of hands on officers to be instituted of god , and tell you it is an innovation of man ( to say no worse ) and that you have no command from god for it ; and thereupon they bring all the arguments against you which you devise against us . and not only so , but they carry on all the affairs of the church without any regard had to that orderly way of ordaining men to office by prayer with the laying on of hands . only , because it s your humour to have men so ordained , therefore in condescention to your weakness , and that they may the better bring you off that usage they permit you once , twice or thrice , &c. to preach up such a thing in their congregations . do you now make so little conscience of that laying on of hands which you practice , and that as a part of the foundation ( say some of you ) as that you could maintain a free and chearful communion with such persons ? howsoever you may shuffle in this case , considering the liberty which you encline to in the other , yet surely were you free from that temptation , you would find no small difficulties to hold such communion with those who should not only make void , but even despise ( for 't is no better ) that wholsome and divine order which god hath left for the government of his house . as for general assemblies , which are ordained for general controversies , and which through the blessing of god are the best expedient under the sun , for composing divisions in the churches . here the liberty of christians should be ; yea , must be maintain'd , though they differ right much in their opinions ▪ in matters of religion , and therefore we have ( indeed ) very christianly admitted the searchers to such our assemblies ; knowing well , that not only the christians in the ages bordering upon the primitive , but even the apostles of our lord did allow christians of very different perswasions , freely to deliberate on things propounded in such assemblies . but yet we little thought that our brethren would have abused us in the sight of the world , for this our christian respect towards them , as if we were inconsistant with our principles in such our condescentions , unless we also communicate with them at the lords table . surely this kind of dealing is unlikely to effect the peace and concord of our too much divided congregations . for my part , i could heartily wish that all the congregations of christians in the world that are baptized according to the appointment of christ , math. . . mark . . acts ▪ . . would make one consistory ( at least some times ) to consider of the matters in difference among them . for , if this be not admitted , there is no means under heaven remaining ( as i conceive ) to heal their divisions , and consequently to obtain that peace which should rule in the hearts of all gods people , because they are thereunto called in one ( universal ) body . and herein ( i conceive ) an union in the main may be held , though in our particular communities , for the avoiding ( otherwise inevitable ) inconveniencies , we are constrained to hold some distinctions . for , it is one thing to forsake the church of christ , and another to cease communicating with such a particular congregation , as in the time of reformation , will needs stay behind in the steps of irregularity . the first can be no other than schism , sith there can be no cause to forsake the church of god , though there may be cause to forbear communicating with some particular members or congregations thereof . the other is so far from schism , that it is more truly called reformation , nor doth it follow that because we efuse to communicate with our brethren in rheir irregular proceedings in the matters of religion , that therefore we reject them in those principles of truth which they do religiously observe , and zealously profess : neither is our distinguishing our congregations from theirs , so much a separation from them , as a reformation of our selves , so that the . and . demands of the searchers might well have been spared , sith as things stand among us , they are not only unnecessary , but i fear may prove very pernicious to the peace of our churches . let me now conclude with a free word to the brethren of both perswasions ; and that is , to beseech you to consider one another as brethren , and not as adversaries , and as brethren to put on charity one towards another ; and chiefly you that are zealous for the principle under debate ; the more you walk in the truth , the more it concerns you to shew forth your works with meekness of wisdom , and to abound in that gift of the spirit which hopeth and believeth all things , which doubtless will teach you to believe this of your brethren in general , that if they saw the truth as you do , they would be nothing less zealous for it then your selves , and consider in the mean time as they are erroneous in our judgments ( and certainly erroneous they are ) so we seem to be to them . and though the consequence of their rejecting one principle of religion , do indeed endanger the rest , yet let us believe , that if they were awar of this , they would abhor such an opinion as doth so prejudice the doctrine of christ . our brethren do err , it is true , but they err with a conscience void of errour , because ( as may be hoped ) they know not that they err . now charity suffereth long , and is kind , is not puffed up against any that zealously serve the lord , though perhaps they err from many of his precepts . charity is not the companion of that excess of indiscreet zeal which abounds in some men , for it knoweth that temperance is as necessary in our zeal , as mercy is in judgment , violent spirits seldom or never doth the church service without disservice ; and let us consider that the truth we stand for , hath no need of our passions to defend it ; no , it s own authority will support it against the strongest opposition , therefore let your moderation appear to all men . to the brethren on the other side , let me thus speak , beware that you despise not your brethren especially you that are men of parts , because you being taken for brethren of high degree , must now if you own the truth which you have opposed , seem to be abased . you that have been instructers of the simple , must now learn of babes , or at least such things as pertains to babes . whereupon if you ask your consciences , i am perswaded you ( or at least some of you ) have met with such reasonings , as once a wise man met with upon an occasion like to this , when he reasoned with his friend after this manner . because others are gone before , is it a shame for us to come after ? or is it not rather a great shame not at all to go after them . aug. confess . l. . c . and let it be considered how upon the discovery of the right manner of baptizing ( for men had forsaken the way of god both in the subject and manner of that ordinance ) there was found a kind of necessity for christians of ancient standing , as it were to begin again . and yet some then , ( as you now ) was by no means to be prevailed with , but would ( at least ) have the way of baptizing left to every mans liberty ( as you would have the th principle ) and now the lord hath pleaded that cause , when no other endeavour could prevail , for those that stumbled at that truth , are in a manner wholly extinct in this nation , whilst those that imbraced it are blessed with great encrease . and what shall befall you if to your disobedience you shall add pertinacity , a little time may determine . by that which hath been said you may perceive ( brethren ) how the case stands betwen us , gladly would we have communion with you in all christian priviledges , but your willful want ( as of some may be feared * ) of one principle of christian religion , and therewithall your endeavours to deprive our churches of it ( as is too evident to be denyed ) puts a stop to that which is so much desired , and how it shall be obtain'd is the business for time to determine , and o that the set time were come . mean while we must leave the searchers , and their search ; our selves , and our sigh , to him that will cause all the churches to know that it is he that searcheth the heart , and tryeth the reins , and will give to every man according as his work shall be . a defence of the offices of apostles ; and of the continuance thereof in the church till the end . for men to strain more at the word apostle , [ as some do at the word bishop ] then at the work or office signified thereby , is no other thing ( as i conceive ) then groundless humility , or hypocritical subtilty ; seeing it is evident that those titles are as lowly as any that can be given to sute with the matter , thereby intended . the first signifying a messenger , or one sent , the other an overseer . wherefore that i may avoid this humour , i will not fear to call old things by their old names , and therefore shall call the officers of the church by the same names which the wisdom of god hath given them , not to make them proud , but rather humbled , and to be as a memento concerning the work , which by their office they stand engaged to do . nor shall we need at this time to say much of the officers of the church generally , but only of the office of apostles , or messengers , & this because some of our brethren do not only doubt ( but endeavour to make others doubtful also , whether god hath given to his church any apostles or messengers to succeed the primitive apostles , as a constant ministery in the church to the end of the world. and albeit , we say that the apostles have successours ( as well as bishops , &c. ) yet our meaning is not that there are any that succeed them in all respects ; for there was in the office of the chief apostles , something ordinary ●nd fixed , and something extraordinary and ●emporary , the latter was , first their immediate ●ission ; * secondly , they ●earned their doctrine ei●her from the sacred lips ●f the lord christ , or by ●●fallible revelation , and were not taught it ●y man , as * timothy and ●ther their successours ●ere , heb. . — great sal●ation , which at the first began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed to us by them that heard ●im . that which — we have heard , which we have ●●en with our eyes , which we have look'd upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life . — tha● which we have seen and heard declare we unto you john . , . but i certifie you brethren , th●● the gospel which was preached of me was not afte● man , for i neither receive● it of man , * neither was taught it but by the revelatio● of jesus christ gal. . . thirdly , they were t● lay a foundation , and t● propose a form of doctrin● for other teachers to buil● on , and to keep as their pattern , and a standard by which to trie others doctrine an● spirits , cor. . . — as a wise master builde● i have laid the foundation , and another builde● thereon . he that is of god heareth us , he that is n● of god heareth not us , hereby know we the spir●● of truth , and the spirit of errour , john . . fourthly , they were necessarily endowed wit● * the gift of tongues , m●racles , &c. to demonstra●● that they were sent of god , and that the● doctrine was from heaven , luke . ▪ — but tarry ye in the city of jerusalem until 〈◊〉 be endued with power from on high , cor. . ● ▪ truly the signs of an apostle were wrought amo●● you in all patience , in signs and wonders , and migh● deeds . in these and the like respects the apo●●les have no successours , for if they have , then ●ust their words and writings have the like ●orce , and authority , and then we should be ●●ill receiving new oracles , and never know when the whole councel of god was made ●nown to us . now the things which were ordinary and ●ixed , in the apostolical office were such as ●hese , their authority to preach the gospel in ●ll places , at all times , to all persons , as occasi●n and opportunity by gods providence was given to them , mark. . . preach the gospel 〈◊〉 every creature , math. . , . teach all nations — and lo i am with you , always even to ●he end of the world ; this work could not be ●ied only to the chief or primitive apostles , ●●th they were to leave the world by death ●ech . . , . the fathers where are they , and the prophets do they live for ever ? acts . . i know after my decease grievous wolves shall enter 〈◊〉 . secondly , their unwearied diligence in teaching both the churches and pastours in ●ll the will of god , their care for the well-set●ing and governing the churches , acts . . therefore watch and remember that by the space of ●hree years i ceased not to warn every one night and ●ay with tears , cor. . . — that which cometh upon me daily , the care of all the churches , pet ▪ , , , . i will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things — yea , i think it meet 〈◊〉 long as i am in this tabernacle to stir you up by putting you in remembrance , moreover i will endeavour that you may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance . the rest will i set in order when i come ; and perfect that which is lacking concerning your faith. tit. . . for this cause left i thee in creet , that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting , and ordain elders in every city , as i had appointed thee . . their being set for a defence of the gospel against false apostles , phil. . , . the one preach christ of coniention — supposing to add affliction to my bonds . the other of love , knowing that i am set for the defence of the gospel . fourthly , to strenthen the hands of particular pastours against usurpers , and such as despise the ministers of christ , acts . and from meletus he sent to ephesus , and called the elders of the church . and when they were come unto him , he said unto them — of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things — therefore watch , &c. john . beloved thou dost faithfully whatsoever thou dost to the brethren , and to strangers — i wrote to the church , but diotrephes who loveth to have the pre-eminence among them receiveth us not , wherefore if i come , i will remember his deeds that he doth , prating against us with malicious words , tim. . . let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour , gal. . , . they zealously affect you , but not well : yea , they would exclude us , that you might affect them . now that the chief apostles have some to succeed them in the apostleship , as we have affirmed will appear first from the consideration of that commission which our lord gave for the teaching of the nations , or for the preaching the gospel to every creature . secondly , from the duration of those gifts in the church which our lord obtained and gave , by virtue of his ascention . thirdly , from the consideration of the primitive churches , their having such apostles or messengers . fourthly , from the practice of those who most question the necessity of messengers at this day . fifthly , from the state of the world , their necessity to be taught the truth as it is in jesus . and in regard of the danger they lie under by means of false apostles . and first it is evident from math. . , . and mark . . that it is the will of god that the nations be taught , and that every creature should have the gospel preached unto them , wherefore it remaineth that we stick to one thing out of three , and that is , either some body in special are bound to preach the gospel to those that are without ; or else that all christians are equally bound to perform this work if capable in respect of gifts , or else that this work ended with the apostles . the last will not be said by any that considers , that the making one branch of that commission , math. . and mark . void or not obliging or binding to the church now , or any persons in it , is in effect to make the whole commission void , for if none have power by virtue of this commission to teach the nations , how can it be that any hath power from hence to baptize ? both works being commanded as it were in one breath . nor can the church observe all things whatsoever christ commanded his apostles , if they be not to observe this great work to preach the gospel to the world. neither can it rationally be said that this work belongs to every gifted christian alike ; because the imployment of the gospel consists in divers offices , and all such members have not the same office. . again , meer gifts do not make men officers ( and that the teaching , math. . and the preaching , mark . is a preaching not by virtue of gift only , but by authority also cannot be denied ) tim. . . this charge i commit to son timothy , tim. . . o ti●othy keep that which is committed to thy trust , ● tim. . . and the same commit thou to faithful ●en , and let these also first be proved , and then let ●hem use the office of a deacon being found blame●iss , tim. . . surely if this care must be ●ad , that none use the office of a deacon , but ●pon such proof had of their fitness , it cannot ●e imagined that the greater matters of the go●pel should be taken in hand without the like ●are and circumspection . . they that would have this work of reaching to the world , no mans concern , by ●irtue of office , whiles they speak against mes●engers , do make more than any body else , therewise we may well enquire how shall they reach except they be sent ? rom. . we con●lude then , if those that preach must be sent ; ●nd if that commission , math. . mark . be yet in force , then the apostles have some to succeed them in their office apostolical . which is yet more evident by the consideration of those gifts which our lord obtained and gave to his church by virtue of his ascention , eph. . . and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastours , and teachers , for the perfecting the saints for the work of the ministery , for the edyfying of the body of christ . till we all come into the unity of the faith , &c. see cor. . . it were certainly a very dangerous thing to say that any of these gifts are taken away from the church of god , albeit some of them are perhaps but rarely found , at least in that part of the world which do profess the name of christ ; especially miracles , &c. which yet may not be said to be wholly absent from the churches in these days , and in this nation , of which i could say something , partly from such information as i know to be true , and partly from what i have heard and seen in that behalf . but as touching the gift of offices here repeated , why any of them should be taken away from the church , i see not any ground at all , they being so evidently fixed in the church 〈◊〉 the whole church be compleated ; and the use of these offices respectively , as before we have defined , so needful , that the church would easily find the want of them if indeed they be taken from her as we shall see more anon . and although we said before that the gift of miracles , tongues , &c. was necessary to the office of the chief apostles , and yet was only temporary : and now say the gifts of miracles may not be denyed to have a being or continuance in the church . in this there is no contradiction ; for , the making those gifts temporary ( or but for a time ) as they were necessary to the office of those which first preached the gospel , doth not at all conclude that they are wholly abnegated , or taken away from the church . and when we say that these gifts were necessary to the office of the chief apoostles , our meaning not that miracles was a part of their office , but only a necessary concomicant thereto ; so that though this concomitant should not befound , it is no prejudice to the office considered as we have defined it . we come now to enquire into the order of the primitive churches , who certainly had many apostles beside those that were foundation layers and master-builders , such were andronicus and junia , rom. . . who are ●●id to he men of note among the apostles ( some conceive they were of the seventy apostles ) then they were , for it were a strange interpretation to say they were noted by the apostles ; it being to wrest the words of paul from their native signification which clearly gives andronicu● and junia , a place among the apostles ; not among the chief apostles , but those that were called the messengers of the churches , and the glory of christ , as such we read of cor. . . and such in all probability were those , ep. john , who are said to go forth for the names sake of christ taking nothing of the gentiles , whom gaius is commended for courtesly entertaining , and dioteophes for rejecting . had not these brethren been sent topreach . i see not how john should reprove them that received them not , or stir up gaius to bring them on their journey whethersoever they would go , but john's care of them , and his h●lding them in reputation , and defending them against opposers of their ministery , and therewithal their forsaking all for the name of christ , and their freely preaching to the gentiles that they might be saved , shews that they were the messengers of the lord , and of his churches , otherwise if they ran before they were sent , they could not manage the great affairs of the gospel among the gentile● . and though it is true , john calls them brethren only , yet this doth not argue that they were not in ministerial capacity , for we find the same phrase used by paul , concerning those who were messengers of the churches , cor. . . — or if the brethren be enquired o● , they are the messengers of the churches , and the glo●y of christ . to say that those brethren were messengers , only as they were sent to carry the contribution from the gentile churches , to the church at jerusalem ( as some would have it ) is a very cold exposition ; for first , it cannot be proved that they were imployed in that business ; but secondly , if they were , how should they for this service only be called the glory of christ . surely this character must needs refer to their being intrusted with better treasure then silver and gold , sith either brethren or sisters of very ordinary capacity ( if faithful ) might have been sent with earthly treasure . again , epaphroditus is not only called the m●ssenger of the church at philippi , but also pauls companion in labour , and his fellow souldier , which shews , that though he might bring the churches bounty to paul , yet this did not confer upon him the title of apostle or messenger ; sith he had a greater imployment than that , namely to labour in the work of the gospel , and to war in that holy warfare even as a companion of paul himself , and therefore worthily might he be called a messenger of the church of god. of this sort of the ministers of the gospel was barnabas , luke , marke , silas , sylvanus , titchicus , troplimus and apollos , as appears from their being frequently fellow travellers and labourers in the gospel with the apostles , concerning whom i argue thus . these persons were ministers of the gospel . but they were not intrusted with the care of particular churches , therefore their office was general , and by consequence travelling ministers ●r m●ssengers of the gospel . the major is true , otherwise they ran before they were sent ; and then how could they preach ? rom. . or be pauls fellow-souldiers and fellow labourers ? the minor is out of doubt , because of their unfixedness in respect of place , as before we have said ; and beside , some of them are expresly called the apostles of christ , thes . . . where silvanus is joyned with paul ▪ as speaking to the thess●lonians , and so throughout that epistle , and chap. . . it is thus said , nor of men sought we glory . we. what we ? paul and silvanus , when we might have been ●urthensome . how might paul and silvanus have been burthensome ? why as the apostles of christ , for such they were , otherwise they might not have been burthensome as such timotheus and titus are evidently ministers of the same rank , as appears partly from the scripture even now alleadged ; where , as pa●l and silvanus , so also timotheus , is expresly called an ap●stle of christ . and partly from those epistles which paul wrote to them respectively , tim. . as i besought thee to abide still at ephesus , when i went into macedoian — that thou might w●rn some that they teach no other doctrine , so do . had timothies charge been only at ephesus as pastour only of that church , there had been no need to beseech him to abide there ; it being not unknown to him that it was by all means requisite for such pastors to reside neatheir respective flocks , and not to go to forrein countreys , to mannage the affairs of other churches . but evident it is , that timothy was not fixed in any particular church , but was pauls fellow-traveller among the churches in divers countreys , and frequently sent by him to sundry places , from the time that he was called by the apostle to go forth with him , till paul sent for the elders of the church of ephesus , which was not long before he was taken prisoner , for all which see . act. ▪ ▪ , , . and . ▪ & , the . . the . . to . and though in a certain post-script added to tim. it is said , that timothy was ordained the first bishop of the church at ephesus , yet this cannot be true , seeing the church at ephesus had bishops , acts . . even whiles paul and timothy were companions in preaching the gospel in divers countrys . nor are the ancients positive in this matter , for i find eusebius only saying that it is reported that timothy was the first bishop of ephesus , and titus of creet ; but he affirms nothing in this matter . but that timotheus his care was for other churches , as much as for that at ephesus is evident philip. , , . but i trust in the lord jesus to send timotheus unto you — for i have no man like minded , who will naturally care for your state — but ye know the proof of him that as a son with the father he hath served with me in the gospel . of titus the same consideration may be had , seeing he was left in creet to set in order the things which were wanting , and to ordain elders in every church , plainly shewing that his power in the affairs of the gospel , and , his care for the churches was the same for every church , that it was for any one ; which is a far different charge from that which was given to the elders of the church of ephesus , acts . for they are not bid to look to all the churches in asia , but only to the flock ( in the singular number ) over which the holy ghost had made them episcopos , overseers or bishops , nor was titus , his care , for the churches in creet only ; for paul calls him his partner & fellow helper concerning the church at corinth , cor. . . whether any do enquire of titus he is my partner , and fellow helper concerning you . of the same import is that place , gal. . , . i went up to jerusalem to see peter — but other of the apostles saw i none save james the lords brother : here james the lords brother is called an apostle , he was not one of the . for that james is called the son of alpheus , math. . . of this mind is eusebius . but ierom would sometimes make these two one self-same man , and yet otherwhiles doth call him decimum tertium apostolum , that is , the thirteenth apostle , but that james the lords brother was not one of the . is evident cor. . . to . where it is said that our lord apppeared first to cephas , then to the . after that he was seen of james then of all the apostles . two things are hence to be noted . . that james is distinguished from the . and so are those persons signified by all the apostles ; for it cannot be that by all the apostles should be meant the chief apostles , for they were mentioned before , and paul himself who was an apostle of the same dignity , is mentioned afterwards , but by all the apostles , is most like to be meant the . disciples whom our lord sent out as messengers to preach the gospel in every city whither himself would go , and who no doubt became famous ministers of the gospel after the ascention of our lord , and with this eusebius doth seem to agree ; we see then , partly from evident texts of scripture , and partly from rational probabilities , that the primitive churches were endewed with a ministry of many messengers or apostles beside those who were the foundation layers and master-builders in the church of christ ; and hence we infer that god hath ordained such a ministery to continue in his church till the body of our lord be perfected . . from the practice of those brethren who most question the being of messengers , as a ministery in the church at this day . it will appear that such an office doth remai● . for , do they not frequently send out men to act authoritatively both in preaching the gospel to them that are without ? in setting things in order in remote congregations ? to exercise discipline by excommunication of offenders ? and remitting the penitent ? by ordaining them elders , and dispencing to them the holy ordinances ? &c. as these things cannot be denied , so we may justly enquire how it comes to pass that they do thus ? if indeed the church hath none to act in the capacity of apostles , or messengers of the gospel , at least as we have defined them , seeing it cannot be proved , ( neither i think do our brethren affirm ) that elders of the churches have equal power in other congregations , as in that which they are chosen to serve neither is it in the power of any congregation to take the pastour of any church from them ; neither may any church impose their pastour upon another church , wherefore unless there be a ministery remaining in the church which is related to all congregations indifferently , we may perceive what confusion is like to ensue . moreover if those who go to preach to the world cannot justisie their calling , how shall they comfort themselves in their undertaking , or answer opposers when questioned concerning their commission ? especially in such places where the scriptures are received sith all that have read them may easily perceive , that as the gospel is to be preached , so those which go forth as ministers thereof , must be sent either by immediate mission from heaven ( which our brethren pretend not to ) or some mediate mission from the church of god , which none can pretend to , that deny the office of messengers sith other officers are not by vertue of their office to go out into the world to teach the nations , or to preach the gospel to every creature . if to that which we have said it should be replyed , ●hat churches which are distant one from another may by consent let the elders of one church act as elders in another , &c. this is sooner said than proved , for seeng officers have their commission at what time they a●e ordained , it cannot be that they should have their power ( de jure ) made either less or greater by the consent or non-consent of any person or persons whatsoever . again , it would be understood how long the power our brethren gives to men to act as elders in those congregations doth remain ? whether they thenceforth stand equally engaged to oversee those churches , as the church that first called them to serve as pastors ? and also how many several congregations they may act in as pastours by consent ? whether two only , or ten only , or an hundred , and so ad infinitum . surely if once they give particular pastours , power to act as elders in more congregations then they were at the time of their ordination , appointed to oversee ; they can never bound their power ; and then what messenger of the church did ever exceed them in that respect . and further , if our brethren can give their particular pastours power to act as pastours in many churches for a month or half a year , then why not a year . or . and so for the term of life , the occasions still being the same ? and how much comes this short of the power committed to any messenger in the world at this day ? wherefore seeing that our brethren do exercise as great authority in sending men to preach to the world , and to settle their churches as we do , it is strange they should dislike our calling those offices by such names as the scripture gives them , rather then by such names as are exclusive of that authority , which is exercised either by those who go out to preach the gospel to every creature , or those that take the care of all the churches . true it is , that peter calls himself an elder , and that he was elder in one church as well as in another , but this was because he had an office which was comprehensive of all offices in the church , and hence it is that we find the apostles sometimes performing the office of deacons , when it might be done without lett to the preaching of the word , but though it be true that the greater contains the less , yet the less doth not contain the greater ; for it cannot be denied , that the office of a particular elder of a congregation only , and a charge to teach all nations , are things inconsistant to one and the same person . what may or ought to be done in preaching the gospel by persons gifted in the church , as a general priviledge or duty , it is not my business here to discourse , but only to shew what it is which necessarily is to be done by vertue of those offices which god hath ordained in his church , otherwise it were easie to shew that god hath not only provided a liberty in his church for the modest exercise of the gifts of his spirit , in the way of prophesie , exhortation , &c. that the body may be edified . but also when by his providence any of the members of the body are exposed to rem●te places , or otherwise called to testifie their faith , they may lawfully evangelize or preach the gospel , as is evident both from the holy scriptures , act. . , . and other very ancient authors . see socrates schlasticus , l. . the . . chapters . . the necessity of messengers or apostles ( in the sense we have defined ) is yet more evident from the state of the world , in respect of their continual ne●d to be taught the gospel in the ancient purity thereof ; and the rather because of that gre●t danger they lie under , by reas●n of the many decivers or salse vpostles , which are gone out into the world , who corrupt the wordly mingling therewith their own traditions . the world is the lords harvest , into which he is pleased to send his labourers , and the church is commanded to pray that the lord of the harvest would send forth painful labourers into his harvest , luke . . , . it will not be denied that these labourers are at least chiefly ) some that are in a ministerial capacity to preach the gospel . and they cannot so well be understood of any particular function in the ministery , as that of messengers , partly for that the other officers in the ministry are bound to particular congregations as we have shewed before , and partly for that our saviour gives this direction to the church , upon the occasion of his sending forth messengers to preach the gospel . if then it be the duty of the church at this day , to pray to the lord that he would send forth painful labourers to preach to the world ( as sure none can deny that ) there is not any room left to doubt of the continuance of such an office , as that of messengers of the gospel , for that very clause touching their being sent forth , and that as lambs in the midst of wolves , doth sufficiently instruct us what labourers these are . a necessity therefore lieeth upon the church of god to dispose of her members to that needful work , as the lord vouchsafes to fit them for ; least otherwise she be like those who make many prayers for that which they never intend to do . it is certain the church hath no power to cause the world to come to her assemblies , nor is it like that the world will send to the church of god for instruction . it remaineth therefore , seeing the gospel is for the illumination of all , that as gad hath wont to send forth his ambassadours to beseech the world in christs stead to be reconciled to god even so , one fruit of the ascension of our lord ( at this day ) is a gift even for the rebellious , that the lord god might dwel among them , psal . . which being compared with ephes . . may very well be interpreted of a gifted ministery to turn rebellious sinners from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god. to which agrees that place , john . . where our lord doth assure his disciples , that when he should send the holy ghost , he should convince the world of sin , of righteousness and judgment , and this ( no doubt ) as he should operate or work upon men by the ministery of the word , which promise either ended with that age ( which is absurd to think ) or else if it remain to these days , then it supposes a ministery to hold forth to the world the everlasting gospel for the obedience of faith , i mean such a ministry as are bound even by virtue of their calling , as debtors to the wise and unwise , to preach the gospel to those that are without . there is no doubt but satan hath his ap●stles , ministers or messengers in the world , as well as in times past cor. . , . it were strange now if our lord christ should have none to withstand these , if need be with an are they apostles ? so am i , as well as with an are they mnisters of christ ? so am i. nor doth the apostle hear dissllow the appellation of apostles or ministers of christ to others beside himself and the rest of the chief apostles : but that which he doth disallow , is , that men should be called either the one or the other , when their works declared that they were false apostles , and such as only transformed themselves as the ministers of righteousness . but had it been unlawful for any to be called apostles beside the foundation-layers , paul had a very easie way to confute these deceivers even by telling them that their professing themselves apostles was proof sufficient that they were deceivers ; yet he never makes that an argument at all , but goes about to vindicate his apostleship as being nothing inferiour to those transformed-apostles , sith he was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles . the same consideration may be had of that place , rev. . . thou hast tryed them which say they are apostles and are not , and hast found them lyars : for had there been no more apostles but the chief apostles , there had been no need to try whether these were apostles of christ or not , for still their very saying they were such , had , without more ado proved them lyars , and like as if any should arise and say i am christ the saviour of the world , his very saying so were the greatest evidence that the same is a deceiver . but why so ? verily because there is only one lord jesus our saviour , whom the heavens must retain till the times of the resti●ution of all things ; even so , if there were not a succession of apostles , it were one of the easiest things in the world to discover a false ap●stle . finally , the gospel must be preached in all the world for a witness to all people , and then shall the end come , math. . . which supposes the being of a ministery , whose work it is to preach to all nations , even to the end of the world , rev. . . the angel [ a definite for an indefinite number ] messenger or messengers must preach the everlasting gospel immediately before great babylon fall . it followeth then , that though darkness hath much prevailed since the first publication of the gospel , yet a ministery shall go forth , even the messengers of the gospel by whom the earth shall be enlightned . and here let it be noted that the preacher ( or preachers ) of the everlasting gospel , hath not a gospel to confirm with signs and wonders , but a gospel to preach to every nation , kindred , tongue , and people , even the same that was preached by our lord , and confirmed to us by them that heard him . the sum of that which we have said is this ; that as god hath given to his church a fixed ministery of bishops , elders , pastors , &c. to take the care of particular congregations so he hath given her a travelling ministery , or unfixed , in respect of particular societies or congregations , to whom it appertains by virtue of their office to take all occasions to cause the light of the glorious gospel to shine unto such as sit in darkness to plant churches , to confirm and settle them in the faith and order of the gospel . to visit and comfort those which have believed through grace . go ye , preach the gospel to every creature . jesus christ — who was preached among you by us , even by me , and silvanus , and timotheus . thanks be to god which maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by vs in every place . and when they had preached the gospel to that city , and taught many , they returned again to listra , and to iconium , and antioch confirming the souls of the disciples : for this cause have i sent un-unto you timotheus , who is my beloved son and faithful in the lord , who shall bring you in remembrance of my wayes which be in christ , as i teach every where in every church , let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word , and see how they do . and lo i am with you alwayes , even to the end of the world. when we say the messengers of the gospel are unfixed ministers . our meaning is not thereby to deny , but that for the more convenient mannagement of the great affairs of the gospel , they may divide themselves into divers parts , and so may be called the messengers of such countreys , as with whom they most frequently converse of the gospel of christ , gal. . . when james , cephas , and john perceived the grace which was given to me and barnabas , they gave unto me and barnabas the right hand of fellowship that we should go to the heathen , and they to the circumcision . in asia we read of seven * messengers , and these related to seven churches in seven principal cities in that country ▪ yet it may not be doubted but there were many congregations and scattered disciples in country villages , and so , many elders also : yea , and that in those very churches which are particularly nam'd , for in the church of ephesus ( which is the first of the seven ) we find divers bishops or elders before john wrote from pa●mos , acts . , . it is true , the ancients call these seven angels or messengers , bishops or chief ministers . but then we know by bishops they commonly mean such as had the charge of many particular congregations . thus they make timothy a bishop , yet confess him to be a preacher of the gospel from ephesus unto illiricum , and throughout hellas in achaia . titus they make bishop of creet , yet such an one as preached the gospel in all that country . they also make silvanus bishop of thessalonica , but the scripture as we have seen calls him an apostle , as well as the rest . now whether it be more safe to call those travelling ministers of christ bishops , after the manner of men ; or apstoles , after the manner of the scripture , is the business for the sober and unprejudiced reader to consider . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * the breach of the church . notes for div a -e * and then why not the like for all disciples where ever they came , no man can render a good reason . * and yet it is true , which paul saith gal. . , , , . for the substance of the gospel was revealed to him , before ananias came at him . * which they said to me , they did alwayes grant , or else i had nor mentioned it in this book . tertul. de resur . c. . cip. ep . ad jubi . jerom. ad lucif . euseb . l. . ● . . erasm . paraph. in heb. . . diodate annot. on heb. . . tindale in tim. ▪ . notes for div a -e the opinion of the university of basil . the opinion of the rhem. gen. . . gen. . . lev. . , , . acts . . notes for div a -e * which seldom can be done without division , by reason of pride on the one hand , and ignorance on the other . * king. , . * for it cannot be thought but that jeremiah had some that stood with him . ver . . * it is not so much an errour , as the pertinacious continuance in an errour , that destroyeth the church-state of those that are under the appellation of christians , by true baptism according to mat. . * the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used , is rendred by montanus , seditione . and so it is by our transl●tors in gal. . . which being considered , must needs supose ( at least ) a demur in point of communion . hence let the christians of this age learn moderation . moderation . moderation . thes . . . division against unsufferable errours , and corruptions are not against the church , but for the church . * which how untrue that is , their own search doth testifie , for there they confess that we own them for churches at some turns , ( they say ) but surely , ( to let go this taunt ) what , we confess them to be at any time , we confess them to be at all times , and that is a church of christ , though irregular in point of constitution . * let no man here object , prayer and hearing the word , which as they are of necessity antecedent to our membership , so they are of perpetual use in the church . * ex ore judicium . * at least some of of you . notes for div a -e * math. . , . gal. . . * tim. . . * and yet it is true that paul was taught the knowledge of some of the principles of religion by ananias . acts . , , . acts . . * i. e. as a concomitant ; not as a part of their office. if the church have not a ministery of messengers , then none are bound by virtue of office to preach to the nations . acts . . gal. . , . mark . . cor. . . cor. . . acts . , . cor. . . act , . . math. . . * see the old trans . the baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled the quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled the quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by william smith. smith, william, d. . p. s.n.], [london : / . imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- controversial literature. society of friends -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the baptists sophistry discovered : in a brief answer to a late pamphlet , entituled , the quak 〈…〉 subterfuge or evasion overturned . wherein all people may plainly see how unjustly the baptists deal with the quakers , and how strongly they 〈…〉 d their bow , and shoot their arrows at them without a cause . published to give satisfaction unto all who simply desire to know the truth . by william smith . he that deviseth to do evil , shall be called , a mischievous pers●● prov. . if any man among you seem to be religious , and bridleth not his tongue , but deceiveth his own heart , this man's religion is vain , jam. . printed in the year , / the baptists sophistry discovered , &c. if necessity did not constrain me to enter upon this present concernment , i could willingly have been silent in the matter : but as i see the baptists so violently prosecuting their design 〈◊〉 the people called quakers , and so furiously endeavouring 〈…〉 der them and their principles the most obnoctious , i feel a weight upon me to appear at this time on the behalf of those people and their principles ; for i dearly own and love such as are called by that name , who are faithful to that light with which christ jesus doth enlighten them : and i certainly know ( with many more ) that whosoever are faithful to the light of christ within , that they are led and guided by it out of darkness , and from under the power of satan ; and so come to walk in him who is the way to the father , and partake of the grace and truth that comes by him ; and herein we can stand with boldness against all the calumniations which you baptists endeavour to cast upon us : for we shall not own any of your oblique or crooked envy , though you would impose it unavoidably upon us in your account . but i shall not be large by way of introduction , but come to the matter intended , which though seemingly carry'd on by ralph james only , yet believ'd , that he was not without some assistance in mannaging his work ; but however , the matter was composed either by him , or others for him , we do not much regard it : for we certainly know , that the head of the serpent must be broken by that seed which is blessed forever ; and though for a time the serpent may bruise the heel of that which is to break his head , yet his head must be broken by it , and his authority fall before it ; for the seed must raign according to promise ; yea , it doth raign , and is glorified over the serpent and his enmity : everlasting praises be unto him that lives forever . and now , ralph james , i shall come to thy matter ; and the reason why i call it thine is , because i do not find any other name subscribed ; and so i shall only take notice of thee , as being the subscriber : and as to what hath been already answered to thy procacity , or what may by any other hand be replyed to what i have in consideration , which may be termed thy proclivity to thy first matter , i shall leave it to its own method , and speak distinctly to the most considerable matters , as to thy last portraiture . come then , and duly observe thy own proceedings ; and be more ready to hear , then to offer the sacrifice of fools : for , how hast thou endeavoured to make the nation believe , through what thou hast offered and sacrificed , that the quakers are a deluded people ; and that of 〈◊〉 it must be so , from something that happened between richard a 〈…〉 son of panton in lincolnshire , and thy self , as thou assertest ? and in that particular matter thou hast concern'd the whole society of the people called quakers ; and hast endeavoured to insinuate their principles and practices to be the same with that which thou chargest upon r. a. to be erroneous : and hast not thou appeared very insolent in this thy folly ? for , what man of prudence and humility would have concern'd a whole society of people with a particular matter of a particular person ( supposing the thing to be true ) when he never was in society or fellowship with them at any time ? but i shall proceed to try thy own way of proving r. a. to be a quaker ; for that is the most principal to be taken notice of , as being the very basis upon which thou and thy brethren have raised your structure ; and if the basis or foundation be falsly and deceitfully laid , then the structure or building will fall of it self , to the shame of the builders ; and therefore i shal examine the most considerable passages which thou hast produced to prove r. a. a quaker . and first , to the reader thou sayst , that r. a. did attempt the propagation of the principles of the quakers by denouncing a curse upon thee in the name of the lord , only because of that testimony which upon just occasion thou wast ready to bear against their errors . reply , it is not the quakers principles to denounce curses in the name of the lord , and therefore r. a. did not propagate their principles in doing so ; if so he did , and for thy testimony against their errors , it was like the testimony of the unbelieving jews against christ and his apostles , if thou didst bear any testimony of that nature : but thou hast manifest nothing further to satisfie any people , that r. a. did propagate the quakers principles , or of thy own testimony against their errors , but thy bare word , who art neither a competent witness or judge in the case , and so no cause to believe that r. a. was a quaker . dly , thou goest on to query , what man of reason will believe , that any man should voluntarily accuse himself , and complain of the hand of the lord , and what he could propose to himself , & c ? and then concludest , saying , surely in vain do men go about to out-face a thing so manifest . rep. tho●●●●uld have queried these things , and been satisfied concerning 〈◊〉 , before thou hadst endeavoured to have made r. a. a quaker , and to fall upon the quakers with such violence from thy supposing him to be such a one ; this would have manifest more wisdom and peace , then to send thy stories abroad into the nation with such confidence as not to be disputed against ; and now forced to query , why r. a. should do so ? surely in vain hast thou wrought all this , while in thy dark imaginations , who art now querying after the ground or cause of r. a's accusing himself , and of his proposals to himself : is this the thing thou countest so manifest , that it is in vain for any man to go about to out-face it ? is that manifest which lies obscure ? and is not that obscure which cannot be demonstrated ? and here the face of truth can look upon thee , and shame may cover thy own ; for thou hast manifest thy folly , as not knowing the state of r. a. and yet wouldst make him a quaker . dly , thou say'st , seeing then that it cannot be denyed , but r. a. was led by the spirit of falshood , and prophesied falsly in the name of the lord , &c. rep. how doth the matter appear so undeniable , seeing it lies only betwixt r. a. & thy self ? may not a thing be justly deny'd til it can be proved by some others then the parties concerned ; and thou hast produced no such proof , and yet say'st , it cannot be deny'd ; and so thou mayst maintain a thing upon any terms , if that must be of necessity believed which thou sayst can't be deny'd : and if r. a. was led by the spirit of falshood , what doth that concern the quakers ? must he needs be a quaker because he was led by such a spirit , as thou sayst ? surely thou and thy brethren had need put on more charity , that you might walk in love ; for the quakers never used a shift to help r. a. though falsly charged with it from your dark conclusion . thly , thou sayst , thou hast not wronged thy conscience in all thou hast said , nor designed any evil against the persons of the quakers ; but only to make discovery of the false wayes they have chosen , that so they might escape from thence , and be saved . rep. thou hast put on a large measure of 〈…〉 fidence , that darest justifie thy self in all thou hast said , and a 〈…〉 sens 〈…〉 that thou hast wrong'd thy conscience in any thing tho● hast said ; this manner of boasting gives just cause to suspect that thou castest the reproof of christ behind thy back ; for if it were not so , thou wouldst meet with convictions in thy conscience for what thou hast said against the quakers , and wouldst be sensible that thou hast wronged thy conscience in what thou hast said : and for any design of evil against the quakers persons , thou canst not hide thy design under such a covering , for as thou design'st against our principles , we know thou dost not design any good to our persons ; and for thy discovery of our false wayes , as thou termest them , thou hast only discover'd thy own polly ; and therefore we shall not forsake our wayes , in which we are sav'd , to come into thy ways to be condemned : and so stop thy mouth for speaking of our wayes ; for thou art a stranger to them , and canst not make the least discovery of them . thly , thou sayst , thou dost not pretend to work miracles ; and that thou knowest thou sin'st not in what thou hast published , but hast more cause to think thou shouldst have sin'd in concealing it . rep. thou hast affirmed a miracle wrought by the prayers of thee and thy congregation , and now thou dost not pretend to such a thing : if thou hadst faith that god would answer thy prayers , thou must needs pretend to do the thing according to thy faith , or otherwise , thou hadst no faith , and so no such thing done by thee and thy congregation , as thou hast affirmed ; for no such thing was ever done without faith ; and if it was really done , what needst thou be ashamed to pretend to it ? but here thou wouldst go retrogade to cover thy self , where thou hast moved too forwardly : but this matter may fall to be answer'd more fully afterwards . and as for what thou know'st , in not sinning in what thou hast declar'd ; thou canst not take away the guilt with thy words ; for as thou hast concern'd the quakers and their principles by declaring against them , thou hast sin'd in a high degree , and the lord will not hold thee guiltless . and for sinning if thou hadst conceal'd it , thou canst not clear thy self from that guilt 〈…〉 for t●●●●ast conceal'd it eight or nine years , and so hast sin'd all t●●t time by thy own conclusion ; and thou hadst need repent , before it be too late . thly , thou sayst , the quakers have a faculty to accuse beyond their ability to prove . rep. take this to thy self , for the quakers are not concern'd in it ; and hast not thou accused the quakers beyond thy ability to prove thy accusations ? prove ( if thou canst ) what thou hast publickly accus'd them with ; and if thou canst not do it , then is it not an unmanly faculty in thee , to slander them with thy accusations . come ralph , thou hast made a stage to play thy part , and thou hast appeared upon it to infest the nation with thy infidelity ; but the power of the lord god is ever thee , and thy stage and thee must fall together , & so i have done with thy matter to the reader . i shal now go on as to what thou bringst for proof , to make good thy affirmation of r. a's being a quaker ; and when i have done with that matter , as it is scatter'd in thy book , i shall take notice of thy narrative , and some other things , which are most considerable , wherein thou hast concern'd the quakers and their principles : for neither thee , nor any that have assisted thee , that can discouraged the quakers in their innocency : and i shall come to the matter i have premised . page . thou sayst , but since the quakers in their lying-wonder , do so boldly deny , that he ( viz. ) r. a. was a quaker ; hear therefore what is attested in that case , june . . since the publication of the quakers lying-wonder , in the presence of credible witnesses hereafter named ; and ( thou sayst ) it was demanded of r. a. whether he ever heard the quakers ? he answerd , yes , he heara them at lincoln , within the prison , about the space of an hour : and then thou sayst , it is known by sad experience , that many in as little time as that is , have been so leaven'd with their principles , as that they have not been cleansed from the corruption thereof to the day of their death . rep. the quakers might very boldly deny r. a. to be a quaker , and thou canst not prove that he was one ; but thou sayst , hear what is attested in that case , in the presence of credible ●●●nesses ▪ well , we are willing to hear what is attested ; but we m●●● ask thee , who did attest it ? did any other attest it besides r. a. ? no : and what did he attest ? that he heard the quakers at lincoln about the space of an hour : well , and what then ? must he therefore be a quaker ? see what he hath attested ; he did not say , he was a quaker by hearing them the space of an hour : but thou sayst , it is known by sad experience , &c. come ralph , thou must not thus abuse us , by telling us of credible witnesses , and then make thy own conclusions : and hast thou been puttering all this while about proving r. a. to be a quakers , & art as far to seek in thy third pamphlet as in thy first ; for there was as good proof to what r. a. said in thy first , as there is in this ; and we do not question the credit of the witnesses in what they might hear r. a. say or confess ; but we question thy conclusions , that because he might hear the quakers about an hour , that therefore he must be a quaker , because many ( as thou sayst ) in as little time have been leaven'd with their principles , as they have not been cleansed from the corruption to the day of their death . how absurd art thou in thy conclusion ? for if all that have heard the quakers one hour or two , must therefore be quakers , because of such time hearing them , then should we be many more in number then we are : but there are several have heard the quakers many hours , who are not quakers from such their hearing ; & if some in less time have receiv'd the truth by them declared , must it needs follow , that r. a. did so ? is this an infallible conclusion , that r. a. was a quaker ? and whereas thou sayst , it is known by sad experience : i ask thee , who ever came to thee to make known their sad experience , after they had received the truth of the gospel , by the quakers declared ? instance any ( if thou canst ) that we may know the sad experience of such as have been exercised therein : but these are terms of thy own forming , to lay a stumbling block in the way of the simple : and we know , that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ; and whosoever receive the quakers principles to be leaven'd by them , they are cleansed from corruption , and are not corrupted , as thou concludest in thy vain mind : for , is the light of christ corruptible ? or doth it corrupt such as receive it , and live in it ? but we certainly know , the true seed in thee ( and many more of you ) is in bondage to corruption , and that the lord of life is crucified in spiritual sodom and egypt . thou sayst , that r. a. further shewed , that before he was at the meeting at lincoln , and after also , he had discourse with the people called quakers forty times touching their principles ; and after he had been with the quakers , he went to the meeting at north-willingham many times , to contend against the baptists more then for any thing else . rep. what dost thou stand telling us what r. a. shewed ; for it is not hearing the quakers an hour , or discoursing with them forty or a hundred times , touching their principles , that makes him a quaker , no more then several jews hearing christ and his apostles , and discoursing with them touching their principles , made them christians : and if he came to contend with thee and you at your meeting , what doth that concern the quakers ? this is poor stuff to come forth in print from a pastor . thou sayst , that he r. a. declared , without any inquiry , that the reason why he went to pronounce thee a leper , arose from the consideration of a passage , num. . and that he looked upon the people called quakers to be as eminently owned of god as moses ; so he was perswaded , god would send the same judgement on thee for contending against the quakers , as he sent on miriam for contending with moses . attested ( sayst thou ) by , christopher foster , william skine , john walesby , robert trigg , richard horton . rep. dost thou infer from this matter , that richard anderson was a quaker ? canst thou , or any man , rationally draw such a conclusion ? for though he might , without any inquiry , declare all this thou speak'st of , yet it doth not make him a quaker , according to the blessed truth in which they live . and for his perswasion concerning the judgment coming upon thee for contending against the quakers , it was only to himself , and the quakers cannot be charged with it , nor he made a quaker by it . but still to strengthen thy own hands thou tell'st us , the last passage richard anderson did again relate almost word for word in the presence of christopher foster aforesaid , and three strangers , which came out of oxfordshire to have satisfaction concerning the narrative ; at which time also , being asked by these strangers concerning the truth of the narrative , he said . as to the substance of it , it was all truth , and that he would own it before any man. and this ( thou sayst ) is subscribed by , the oxfordshire strangers . william greenwood , john scuchbury , john grammar , and by christopher foster , as ear-witnesses . rep. what is there in all this to make r. a. a quaker ? must his saying or confessing , that the substance of the narrative was all truth , make him a quaker ? truly the oxfordshiro strangers could not receive much satisfaction from what r. a. said or confessed , if they desired to know and be satisfied whether he was a quaker . thou sayst , the same general testimony of the truth of the narrative , or the substance of it , he the said r. a. did deliver at another time , a few dayes before the last-mentioned , in the presence of , christopher foster , william skine , john walesby , robert trigg , richard horton , rep. thou bring'st the old witnesses again to the general testimony of r. a. to the truth of the narrative , or the substance of it ; but i perceive thou darest not say , the whole narrative ; and what the substance is , thou hast not mentioned : but however , he hath not at any time testified before those witnesses , that he was a quaker , or that the narrative was all true , neither have they testified any such thing from what thou sayst he declared to them , or from their own knowledge ; and yet thou sayst , thus it appears that r. a. was a quaker : but if this be all thou canst make it appear by , there is no cause for any to believe that he was a quaker ; and so thou hast left thy self as a man without credit : for it s now well perceived , that thou hast none to stand by thee , that is able to testifie for thee from their own knowledge ; and so r. a's sayings and confessions are thy chief pillar . and to make it good thou sayst , nor can we have a better testimony then a mans own confession in this case ; for he must needs know his own opinion better then another man : nor is it possible for us to prove ( sayst thou ) what conversation ( in all respects ) he had with them , because remote from him , and not concerned in the quakers congregations . and then thou queriest , whether a man 's own confession for matter of opinion , being attended with those demonstrations of the matter of fact , thereby observed , be not a cogent proof to satisfie indifferent men ( thou sayst ) thou must leave the sober reader to judge for his own satisfaction . rep. well ralph , i perceive thou art come to an end of proving r. a. a quaker ; and if this , which thou hast brought , be all thy evidence , as may well be supposed , then r. a. must either stand by thee , or else thou must unavoidably fall ; for thou hast laid the very stress of the matter upon his single evidence , and so hast forgotten , or otherwise wilfully omitted the testimony of scriptures ; for the scripture saith , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established ; and thou wanting this sure evidence on thy part , there are not any of thy words can be established ; for thou hast neither three , two , nor one witness to evidence the truth of thy matter ; and so all thy words are as wind , and cannot be established . but thou sayst , nor can we have a better testimony then a man 's own confession in this case , he knowing his own opinion better then another man : hast thou not much mistaken thy self in thy assertion ? for there may be a better testimony in this case then a man 's own confession , because a man may make an ignorant confession of his own opinion in relation to the principles of other people ; whereas another , that duly observes the course of his life and conversation , may be more able and fit to testifie how he answers their principles ; and such a testimony is far beyond the party 's own confessing his opinion : and so it will unavoidably follow , that whatsoever r. a. hath confessed or said , in relation to the quakers , according to his own opinion , doth not make him a quaker . and where thou speakest of the impossibility for you to prove what conversation ( in all respects ) he had with us , because remote from him , and not concerned in our congregations : we do believe it ; for how is it possible for you to prove a thing to be , that never was ? for he never had his conversation with us at any time , in any respect , neither did he frequent our meetings or congregations at all ; and so it is not possible for you to prove it . and thou ask'st this question , whether a man 's own confession for matter of opinion , being attended with th●se demonstrations of the matter of fact hereby observed , be not a cogent proof to satisfie indifferent men ? and here thou ask'st a question after thy affirmation ; for thou first saidst , nor can we have a better testimony then a man 's own confession in this case : and now thou queriest , whether a man 's own confession be not a cogent proof ? and so it may well and safely be concluded , that thou affirmest a thing that lies doubtful in thy own judgment ; and that ever r. a. confessed that he was a quaker , is beyond thy skill to prove by undeniable evidence ; and therefore thy folly is manifest , giving him a name which no man or woman did ever know him by before : for there is nothing more certain , but r. a. would soon have been called a quaker by several of his neighbours , if he had received their principles , and been acted by their spirit , as thou wouldest have it ; and thou mightest have had the evidence of several concerning his alteration from the wayes , customs , and fashions , and traditions of the world , and of his bearing a testimony for god in the quakers spirit ; but seeing it never was so , nor by him confessed to be so , thou art left as a naked man , without any covering : and thus thy subterfuge is overturned , and thou art without a hiding-place , and thy own lye is turned upon thee in calling r. a. a quaker , who never was known to have fellowship with them , or they with him ; and so the quakers not at all concern'd in r. a's errors ( if he did err ) as thou wouldst fabulously impose upon them . i shall now take notice of some passages in thy narrative , which seem to reflect upon the truth , and to justifie error ; and thereby thou mayst see how darkly and ignorantly thou hast manifest thy judgment , and how vainly thou hast endeavoured to make r. a. a quaker . st , thou sayst , that r. a. came to your meeting , and was convinc'd ; and said , he did believe that baptism in water was an ordinance of god. rep. it seems he was convinced at your meeting , and confessed his belief to your way of water-baptism ; and did you own him as a baptist because he confessed his belief of that which you hold and maintain to be of such absolute necessity ? now here are two things more considerable to make him a baptist , at that time , then any you have brought , in all that he has confessed , can make him a quaker ; and yet it may be supposed , that you did not at that time own him as a baptist , notwithstanding his convincement , and confessing his belief to your water-baptism as an ordinance of god. dly , thou sayst , that before he came again , he met with the people called quakers , who told him ( as himself confessed ) that he must not look upon those outward ordinances , for they were low ; but that he must mind the light within , and be guided by it ; and not by the scriptures , for they were a dead letter . rep. it is to be observed , that thou didst not know whether he met with any of the quakers or no , but as he confessed , and yet he must be a quaker in print : would ever any man , that had the right use of his wits , have spread such stories abroad , as thou hast done , and have no certain knowledge of what thou writest ? and your outward ordinances , as you call them , are temporal , and may be seen , and the apostle would not have such things looked at ; and they that will not be guided by the light , and follow it , they disobey the doctrine of christ , and abide in darkness ; and they that abide in darkness do not know the scriptures , nor the power of god : and this is testified upon truth 's account , whatever r. a. might say unto thee . dly , thou sayest , that when r. a. came again to the meeting , he much contended against the baptism of water ; and said , that now they were to be baptized with the baptism of the spirit , and not with water . rep. as for r. a's contention ( if he did so ) it doth not concern the matter in hand : and you baptists do not so well agree in all points of your belief , but you can sometimes contend one with another , and if thee and r. a. could not agree , it doth not follow , that he was a quaker : and if you be not baptized with the baptism of the spirit , how are you one body ? for it was by one spirit that the saints were baptized into one body , whether jews or gentiles : and if you can you may demonstrate , which of you all have a commission from god to be an administrator of water , in order to baptize any . thly , thou sayst , that r. a. said , the spirit was to try the scriptures , and not the scriptures the spirit . and then saith , that thou saidst , thou believed'st , the scriptures were to try the spirit , and not the spirit to try the scriptures . thus in thy first narrative . rep. if you discoursed on this manner , you were both at work in your imaginations ; for the spirit and scriptures agree , and do not try each other : and thou hast sufficiently manifested thy ignorance both of the spirit and of the scriptures , who would have the scriptures to try the spirit ; canst thou produce a scripture to make good thy belief ? but in thy last narrative thou seem'st to state the matter otherwise , and so would'st alter the case to cover thy self , where thou hast over-shot thy self , and some other alterations , which thou hast made in thy last , which i shall wave at present ; and why hast thou altered this matter , and put thy meaning to it ? for thou sayst in thy last , that thou believest , the scriptures were to try the spirits , and not the spirits to try the scriptures ; meaning ( sayst thou ) as before is said , that the holy spirit , as he speaketh in the scriptures , is to try and judge the spirits of men , and particularly the quakers spirit , which they call the light within : and here thou hast plainly manifested deceit unto all who have eyes to see , and thy meaning will not cover thee ; and who have any cause to believe thee , that canst twist thy words from one thing to another ? but how do the scriptures try and judge the spirits of men , according to thy meaning ? i would understand thy mind more plainly , as to this thy evasion : and why must the quakers spirit ( which thou sayst they call the light within ) be particularly tryed and judged by the scriptures ? must the letter try and judge the light ? wouldst thou make the greater subordinate to the lesser ? for that which is the original of a thing must needs be greater then that which is manifest from it , and the letter was manifest from the light ; for the holy men of god spake as they were moved by it , and it was within them when it moved them to speak : and so the holy mens spirit was the light with which the quakers have unity , and their words do not try and judge the quakers spirit , but their words are fulfilled and witnessed by the same spirit : and here the quakers are before you all , who are only in the words , as they were once spoken , and not in the spirit by which they were spoken ; and so you want the key of knowledge , which opens the mysteries of the kingdom : and when john bid the saints try the spirits , whether they were of god , he said , there were many false prophets gone out into the world ; and the false prophets were in a false spirit , which the saints were to try in the true spirit ; and so the true spirit was the tryer of all false spirits and false prophets , and the same spirit is the tryer of all spirits now ; and they that live in it hold fast that which is good , and know it to be good though false spirits may call it evil. thly , thou sayst , thou saidst to r. a. that thou wast afraid that the quakers were deceived , and guided by a spirit of delusion ; and that it was thy judgment , that all the sons and daughters of men ought to be guided by the scriptures . rep. it seems thou hadst no certain ground to believe that the quakers were deceived and deluded , but only wast afraid ; and so it is manifest thou couldst not try them , either by the spirit or scriptures : surely wise men will be ashamed of thy ignorance and folly : and for the removing thy vain fear , we are willing to tell thee and thy brethren , that we live in the blessed truth , where righteousness & peace embrace and kiss each other . and as for thy judgment , that all the sons and daughters of men ought to be guided by the scriptures ; thou hast given thy judgment inconsiderately ; for thou hast not demonstrated any thing as a ground why it ought to be so , but only stated it from thy own judgment ; and if thy judgment be sufficient to bring others to be of the same judgment , then the judgment of the pope may plead authority , and so people may as soon be papists as baptists ; and if there be no other guide , but the scriptures , for the sons & daughters of men to be guided by ; then what guide have such as never heard nor read the scriptures ? have such no guide to lead them to fear god , and work righteousness , to be accepted of him ? or must they of necessity perish for want of the scriptures to be their guide ? or whether can such a people be saved ? thou art here concern'd to give thy judgment again ; for there is not yet such a decision of the great controversie , as thou vainly boasteth . thly , thou now comest to speak of r. a' s coming to reprove thee , and pronounce thee a leper ; and that a little time after he confessed , he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; and that the same judgment was come upon one of his children , and himself , wife and other children taken with a restless pain in their bodies : and that he desired thee to pray for him , and thou and thy congregation did pray for the removing of that distemper and affliction ; and they were restored to their former health again , which ( thou sayst ) r. a. confessed when he came to the meeting again . ans. it is to be observed , that the very ground of all the buzzle and noise , which thou hast made against the quakers , is only from the bare and single confession of r. a. and thy own consequences and conclusion from what he hath confessed and said , but thy groundless conclusions do not prove so effectual for thy purpose ; as thou might'st vainly suppose when thou begun'st thy work : for though thou hast made such a noise against the light within , and against the quakers , because r. a. might tell thee , the quakers did tell him , he was to mind the light , to be guided by it ; yet the light is not to be charged with r. a's miscarrying , if he did miscarry in any thing wherein he concern'd the light : for if he did concern the light in giving judgment against thee , and then afterwards confest , that he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; this doth not make the light to be a false principle , nor those that are faithful to it , to be guided by it , a deluded people : and if he did confess , that he was deceived , it doth not follow , that the light deceived him ; for there were never any false prophets in the true light , nor never any true prophets out of it ; and so it is very clear , that r. a. was not guided by the true light when he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; neither doth it appear by all thou hast said , that he was guided by the light , and yet he must be call'd a quaker , because he might sometimes have something to say of the light , and against water-baptism : and suppose this was granted , yet it doth not make him any more a quaker , then for a man to speak of water-baptism and against the pope would make him a baptist ; and if such a man should do or say something that is a manifest error , would you baptists take it well , that his error should be charged upon your whole society , and you counted a deluded people because of such a miscarriage by that man , when he was never taken notice of to be owned by you ? it may well be concluded , that you would be ready to clear your selves , both from the man , and his miscarriage ; and to blame such as should lay his miscarriage upon you : and if you would not be willing to bear such a thing your selves , if cast upon you from such a ground , why then do you so much busie your selves to do it unto us ? are you doing in this as you would be done by ? let the juditious judge : for you neither manifest justice , equity or mercy towards us in this matter ; but rather vent your envy and malice against us , as the sober-minded well perceive . and as for the judgment of r. a. against thee r. j. if such a thing was , and the thing coming upon himself and family , it doth not concern the quakers at all , or the light of christ within , which is their principle ; and hadst thou been so wise , as to have let the quakers alone , and not concern'd them , its possible the story of thy prayers for removing such a judgment might have made thee and you famous in the eyes of some who delight in novelties : but thou hast taken a wrong course to advance thy own glory ; and in time , both thee , and those that have assisted thee in thy work , will fall under your own shame : for the true light is not to be charged with that which by a false spirit may be done , no more then an innocent man is to be charg'd with the offence of an offender ; for , all that live in the true light receive true commands , and no error is to be charg'd upon the commander , nor such accounted deluded that keep his commands ; for the true light leadeth all those that faithfully follow it out of all error , into all truth ; but where imaginations have liberty to work , they conceive a false thing , and bring forth a false birth , and in that work the light may be pretended though not at all concerned : and by this thou mayst see where r. a. was when he was deceived , and was a false prophet , as thou sayst he confessed . and so it is not what any may speak of the light within that makes the light guilty of any thing that may be done amiss by such as speak of it ; for it stands a witness against them in their consciences , when transgress it . and as for r. a. and his family being restor'd to their former health , by the prayers of thee and thy congregation , it is still to prove , though thou hast gotten several subscribers to what r. a. confess'd concerning it ; and in such a manner thou mayst write one book after another with reiteration ; for thou brought'st evidence to what r. a. confessed in thy first , and thou art gotten no further yet , only hast gotten new witnesses to r. a's old confession ; and so all thou hast done by thy last subscribers is but a further manifestation of thy folly , and it is not worth taking notice of in particulars , neither shall i trouble my self or the reader with such impertinencies : and thou dost as much as confess , that as to thy own knowledge , thou wast ignorant of any affliction upon r a. and his family , or of their recovery ; for thou sayst , hadst thou fore-seen this peevishness in the incredulous quakers , thou mightest perhaps have deprived them of this their foolish advantage ; and then thou bringest christ and the apostle paul , whom ( thou sayst ) did not go to visit all for whose ▪ health ▪ they prayed : and so thou wouldst parralel thy self with those unparralel'd workers ; & thou wouldst bring thy self off again by saying , but what am i , o lord ! i confess unto thee , i am not worthy to be mention'd here ; and so thou first seem'st to include thy self with christ and the apostle , and then wouldst exclude thy self again , as not worthy to be mention'd : and for thy fore-seeing the peevishness of the quakers ( as thou term'st it ) thou hast sham'd thy self with that expression ; for it seems thou hadst nothing in it to have satisfy'd thy self of the truth of the matter , but only to have depriv'd the quakers of that which thou callest their foolish advantage ; and so thou couldst not pray either in faith or hope , who didst not know whether there was any affliction upon those thou prayd'st for or no ; and so thou and thy congregation pray'd at an adventure , and r. a. confessed to the restoration of health again ; and this is the great wonder which thou hast spread abroad in the nation , to make people believe , that you prevail'd with god by your prayers : but the most juditious do rather believe that it was a meer fiction , and thou art not able from thy own knowledg to demonstrate it otherwise . and thus i have done with thy narrative . i shall now take notice of some particular passages , which thou hast stated to make good r. a's affliction and restoration . thou speakest of some that asked him ( meaning r. a. ) whether he himself had not a child presently after that was leprous ? and he said , he had a child then that did break out into sores , p. . rep. mark this confessor ; he did not directly answer the question of the enquirers , as to confess his child had a leprosie ; but that he had a child broke out into sores : and it is well known to all that have their senses , that there may be a breaking out into sores , and yet no leprosie : and this is all that r. a. confessed upon inquiry . how hath the poor man been drawn out and squeezed by inquirers , to answer the end which thou unjustly hast begun ? thou sayst in the same page , that the title page of the narrative was not of thy composing . rep. it seems you baptists can shuffle to make out your own matter ; and thou canst subscribe to that which is not of thy own composing : and to help the matter as well as thou canst , thou sayst , it is not without truth ; but whether this appears like the truth , i shall leave to all unbyast judgments to determine . thou endeavourest pa. . to make r. a. a quaker without any contradiction , saying , that r. a. was a quaker in principles , and owned that people above all others , and was acted by their spirit , is palpable enough from what is said in the narrative . ans. thou now seemst to leave thy subscribers to r. a's confession , and take the matter upon thy self , as if thy own word should carry the matter more clearly then all that r. a. hath confessed , and by several subscrib'd : and must we take thy bare word that r. a. was a quaker in principles , and own'd us above all others , and was acted by our spirit ? wouldst tho● impose these things upon us from thy vain conclusions ? but as thou hast refer'd this matter to the narrative , as such a palpable thing , i shall not run into tautology ; but desire the reader to peruse what is answer'd to the narrative , which , i doubt not , will fully satisfie any juditious person touching this matter . i shall take a little notice of three heads , which thou statest to make good this false assertion . first , thou sayst , in that he contributes his testimony to that which they call the light within , at as high a rate as the most of that way ; which ( sayst thou ) if they have any principles at all , is the chief of their principles . answ. what testimony ( as thou callst it ) r. a. did contribute to the light within , or at what rate , we have only thy bare word , and our belief not being in thee , we can't credit thy stories , and therefore thy words are but as wind unto us . but thou sayst , if we have any principles at all , the light is the chief : and here thou questionest , whether we have any principles at all ; and yet , even now affirmed , that r. a. was a quaker in principles : who would take thy word , that know'st not what thou sayst , or whereof thou affirmest ? and if the light be the chief ( as thou put'st the case ) we have no cause to be asham'd of it : but thou shalt not at this time be made wiser by me , in demonstrating what our principles are , or what is the chief ; but thou mayst grope in the dark , where thou art , seeing thou dost not love the light. secondly , thou sayst , in that he took upon him to appear as a prophet for the quakers ; condemning such as opposed them , and proclaiming them to be the people of god. answ. thou once saidst , the light commanded him ; and now sayst , he took upon him : mark thy contradiction , and condemn thy folly ; for he did not appear as a prophet for the quakers , though he might rebuke thee for speaking against them ; for that he might do in civility , as a man , seeing thy incivility in speaking against them behind their backs , and yet no more a quaker for rebuking thy folly , then thou in thy folly : and where did he proclaim them to be the people of god ? dost thou count that to be his proclamation , when he said , he was come to reprove thee for speaking against the people of god called quakers ; this is all the proclamation that can be found in all thou hast expressed , & whether this was true or no , we have no evidence besides thy own ; and we have no cause to believe thee , who art the very author of such unheard of and incredulous stories . thou makest a rabble about the evidence , that the quakers bring to invalidate the narrative , as if they were either abused , or most unworthily forged : but this is such a piece of foppery as not worth taking any notice of , except one did intend to follow thee in thy humors ; and being so inconsiderable , as not to carry any thing of weight to make any thing good on thy part , or to make any thing good against the quakers , either for abusing , or unworthily forging any thing , i shall wholy wave it ; only take notice of one passage , p. . concerning something that thou sayst katherine hall should say of the quakers calling for much ale , and brought it into the street , bid the people drink what they would , and if they mould have more they should have it ; and then thou draw'st thy own conclusion , saying , probably to move the people to befriend them , with the more liberal testimony . answ. canst thou tell us the longitude or latitude of this story ? for i do not know who can find out either : and was it unbecoming christianity or civility , to bid the people drink , who came thither upon their account ? but this matter needs no answering ; for all that know the quakers , do very well know their moderation , temporance and sobriety , and that they 〈◊〉 not inclin'd to the excess of strong drink , or any way to encourage others in such a practice : but one may plainly see , that thou wouldst creep under any thing for thy subterfuge , and thy wickedness in this matter appeareth in a very high degree . thirdly , thou sayst , by his acting after the manner of divers quakers in these dayes , going on unsent errands , only moved by the conceits of their own hearts . answ. his acting was not after the manner of any quakers according to thy conclusion ; for the quakers know who sends them on their errands , & know their errand , though thou knowest neither ; and he that sends them is true , and truth is their errand ; and being moved by him , who is the fountain of life , and well-spring of mercies , to labour and travel in his work , they are upheld by his power to do his will ; and this is more then the conceits of their own hearts : though the goo heart may conceive good things , and indict good matters ; but thy motions lie in the conceits of thy own brain , which is a habitation of notions . and seeing thou affirm'st , the quakers go on unsent errands , i ask thee , or any baptist , who sendeth you on your errand , seeing you pretend to have an errand ? have you heard the voice of god and christ to tell you your errand , and to send you forth with it ? give us a plain answer . and thus i have answer'd the most considerable passages in the pamphlet to maintain r. a. a quaker ; and i may well hope , that the juditious & sober-minded , who only desire to know the truth , will be fully satisfied that r. a. was never a quaker in principle , judgment or practice ; and so the baptists are plainly discover'd in their sophistry . and as to the rest of thy book , concerning christ the light in every man , and about ordinances , &c. thou and the reader art refer'd to 〈…〉 which is coming forth , in answer to tho. hicks , called 〈…〉 ich doth treat fully concerning these things ; in which 〈…〉 hy brethren's objections and cavils are fully answered . w. s. the end . the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, - . [ ], , [ ] p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year of our lord . t. g. = thomas grantham; j. b. = john barret, whose work is being attacked by the author. quire f is a cancel. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng barret, john, - . -- fifty queries, seriously propounded to those that question, or deny infants right to baptism -- early works to . baxter, richard, - -- early works to . infant baptism -- controversial literature -- early works to . baptists -- controversial literature -- early works to . salvation theology -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quaeries examined , or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians . occasioned by the publication of fifty queries , gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter . by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient . by t. g. prov . xix . . there be many devices in a mans heart , nevertheless the council of the lord that shall stand . mr. baxter more reas . p. . the true method of one that would arrive at certainty , and not deceive himself and others , is to begin at the bottom , and discern things in their nearest and most certain evidences , and afterward to try the by-objections as he is able : and not t● por●first upon the objected difficulties , and judge of all the cause by those . london , printed in the year of our lord . the quaerist examined . or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians , &c. presbyterian . query . whether under the covenant of works , if adam had not sinned , innocents should not have been holy to god , and so members of the innocent church or kingdom of god ? baptist . antiquery . whether this be not a groundless and unlearned query ? for seeing the word church , as used in the holy scriptures , signifieth a people called out , namely , from another people , out of what people should they have been called , had the whole world been in the state of innocency ? and seeing no man can tell whether any man should have had authority committed to him in matters of religion , or whether god should immediately have exercised his own government ; neither yet in what capacity children should have come into the world , whether endowed with knowledge or otherwise ; whether therefore it concern or become any man , to let his fancy rove about in such an unknown and unknowable case . and thereupon , . suggest how infants should be concern'd or not concern'd in matters of religion ? and how can any thing be concluded from such an imagination , as imitable for us about infant church-membership ? and whether we are not like to have a bad superstructure , when the foundation is a meer fancy ? presbyterian . query . whether god was any more obliged to order it so , that the children of righteous parents should have been born with all the perfections of their parents , and enjoyed the same priviledges , than he was obliged in making the covenant of grace , to grant that infants should be of the same society with their parents , and have the immunities of that society . baptist . antiquery . more obliged : whether it be not in vain to suppose , that god was obliged at all in either of those cases , seeing he is absolutely free to do whatsoever he pl●aseth with his own ? and what ground have you to believe , that some infants were more concern'd then others in m●tters of religion , by vertue of any covenant made with adam ? and what society was infants capable of with adam , by vertue of any covenant made with him after his fall ? c●rtis the scripture is silent as to these matters , presbyterian . query . whether we have any reason , when the design of redemption is the magnifying of love and grace , to think that love and grace are so much less under the gospel to the members of christ , then under the law to the members or seed of adam , as that then all the seed should have partaken of the same blessings with their righteous parents , and now they shall all be turned out of the society , whereof the parents are members ? baptist . antiquery . whether you your selves do not lessen the magnifying love of god in mans redemption , whilest in respect of infants you would restrain it to the seed of such parents as are in covenant with god , yea to such infants as partake with them in practicals of religion , which you seem to intend by the blessings you speak of . but who denies any blessing to infants under the gospel , which was their portion under the law made with adam ? and how were infants members of the society of the seed of adam , more then of the society of the baptists ? shew the difference if you can . presbyterian . query . whether though our innocency be lost , parents be not parents still , and have not as much interest in children , and whether god have reversed this natural order ? and if god change not his order therein , whether parents be not as capable of consenting to grace for their children , as they were of being innocent for them ? baptist . antiquery . whether there be any that question whether parents be parents still , or what need of such enquiries ? or what do you mean by gods natural order ? if you mean natural religion , then shew us what infants are bound ro in matters of religion by natu●e , or what this natural order ties parents to do to their infants , upon the account of practicals in religion , which we omit ? and whether parents could be innocent for their infants , if their infants were not innocent as well as they ? and if not , how should their consenting to grace be the childs consent ? and whether it will not as well hold retro , that the parents consenting to wickedness is the childs consent ? and whether this do not give the parents the power to save or damn their infants ? and can such councils stand with the wisdom , justice , or mercy of god ? presbyterian . query . whether infants be not included in the first edition of the covenant of grace made with adam ? ( gen. . . ) whether unless it can be proved that infants are none of the womans s●ed , we must not take that fundamental promise to extend to infants ? and was she not thereby obliged to l●st her self , and all her infant-progeny in the redeemer's army , against the proclaimed enemy , and to teach her posterity to do the like ; and did they not continue visible members of christs army and kingdom , till such time as they violated that fundamental obligation , and as the seed of the serpent , fought against christ and his kingdom , for satan and his kingdom ? baptist . antiquery . whether the baptists do not as clearly assert infants right to the grace of god in the first edition of the covenant , made with adam , as any whatsoever ? and if by the seed of the woman you understand all that are saved , who then questions infants belonging to that seed ? but where is the woman bound to list her infants in the redeemers army , or where shall we finde them visible members of christs army in the first edition of the covenant ? are not these meer words without authority of scripture ? or where did infants ever fight for , or against the serpent ? and if not , why do you make them the seed of the serpent , and fighters against the kingdom of christ ? and if you say , you speak not these things of infants quatalis ; then whether you have not transferr'd the question , and so it is impertinent ? presbyterian . query . vvhether in that first proclamation of grace to fallen man , or in the first promise of redemption to sinners , gen. . . an infant of the vvoman be not promised to be general , and head of the church ? and whether the promise of an infant head , doth not declare gods mind , that he will have infants members , because the head is the principal member , &c. baptist . antiquery . whether christ in his infancy was not as truly god as man ? and whether there be any parity between the infants you speak of and christ , seeing he was able even then to vanqu●sh the greatest adversary ? and if by the redeemed church , you mean the whole number of the saved , who doubted but infants were of the redeemed church ? but how doth it follow , that all that are to be saved , ought to be mitted to practical ordinances in the visible church ? seeing then all infants ( for ought you know ) have the same right , which yet you d●ny ; but why so ? are you sure they are not within the verge of christs redemption ? and though christ was once an infant , yet where do you finde tha● he was then a member of the gospel church ? was he not born under the l●w ? gal. . and born king of the jews , mat. . and according to the state of the jew●sh church , an infant migh be both a member and a prince ; and was not the ki●gly office in israel a type of christ ? but what is this to he order and state of the church under the gospel ? and fur●her , tho●gh christ an infant was bo●n head of the church as aforesaid , yet in 〈◊〉 infant st●te , he did not intermeddle with the exercise of the least par● of h●s authority . and then whether it be not more r●tional to say , that seeing christ the head of the church did not act●ally poss●ss , or at least not use any part of that power , as an infant , or while he was an infant ? it s therefore unreasonable , th●t infants ( supposn ●h●y were as truly bo●n memb●rs of his church , as he wa● born king of the jews ) should be concern'd in the actual possession of ordi●ances in infancy ? and what if we grant that infants may be disciples by designation , a christ was king , priest and prophet by designation , ( ●ho●gh the cases not al●ke easie to prove ) yet seeing christ was not a prophet ( as you confess ) in actu exercito , how came you to be so bold to bring infants to the ex●rcise of baptism ? and why can you not rather content your selves with the designation or ded●ca●ion of your infan●s to god by prayer , and make them disciples in actu exercito , when they are able ? and whether you may not as well repute th●m thus among disciples , and as safely conclude them to be in the covenant of grace , and of the redeemed church without baptism , as without the lords supper ? sith it s said , except ye eat of the flesh of the son of god , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; as well as it is said , except a man be born again of water , &c. he cannot enter in●o the kingdom of god. and whether dr. taylor , a learned pedobaptist do not ingeniously confess , that the wit of man is not able to shew a difference in these cases ? presbyterian . query . why are those two titles put on those two distinct generations . ( sc●l . the posterity of cain , and the p●st●rity of seth ) calling one the sons of god , ●nd the others the daughters of men , gen. . . but that the one was a generation s●parated from the church from their birth , ( their progenitors being cast out before them ) when the other was the seea of saines not cast out , &c. baptist . antiqu. . whether this text gen. . . be not ambiguous , insomuch that your own doctors are not agreed about the exposition thereof ? but supposing it to respect the posterities of cain and se●h , yet whether it can be meant of infants , seeing they committed none of these si●s , in taking wives , &c. and whether your exposition do not damn all infants proceeding from cain●s posterity , and consequently all the infants of all nations which profess not the true religion ? and supposing that the infants of godly parents are in some sense more immediately related to the church , then the infants of pagans by reason of the prayers and designation of their parents , and the opportunities of education ? yet what makes this for any actual participation of ordinances in the church , and what one ordinance did the infants of these sons of god partake of ? and sith the scripture is wholly silent of any such thing , whether this do not more strongly conclude against infant-baptism then for it ? and whether it be needful to say any thing to the latter part of this query , seeing we grant all , and somthing more then this text will prove , though we deny them actual right to ordinances ? and whether the common or equal overthrow of these generations , in respect of the infants of both , do not evidently shew , that as to the business of their salvation , they were in the same condition ? and then whether it be safe for us to conclude , that the wickedness of any progenitors have any further effect upon the infant-ch●ldren then to expose them to external calamities , seeing christ died to redeem them from the condemnation brought upon them by adam ? rom. . . presbyterian . query . whether it was not the same church be●or● , and after abrahams time ; that was called the tents of sem ? gen. . . was not the jewish church denominated the tents of sem ? a●d does it not hence appear , that the church-priviledges of that people did not begin with or from abraham , but that they were b●for● ? and how was it the same church that was of s●m , and of abraham , if it had not the same sort of members or materials ? &c. baptist . antiqu. . though it be true , that the church is the same in some sence , from the beginn●ng of the world to the end ; yet whether it may not truly be said also , not to be the same in divers respects ? and whether the cov●nant as made with no●h , gen. . do not differ from the cov●nant as ma●e w●th adam , though both was made with all mank●nd , and is affirmed to be the c●venant of grace by mr. baxter . and whether there was not yet a further difference b●tween these and the covenant as made with abraham ? gen. . the former being made with all manking , and never yet abrogated , ( as saith mr. baxter ) . the other was made with abraham and his seed , distinct from the rest of mankind , but as they should be profelited thereto ? and though the church may be denominated the tents of shem , b●th before and after abraham , yet whether this conclude there was to be no alteration of the state of the church under these times respectively ? and whether in any of the tents of shem , before abrahams time , so much as any one infant can be found admitted to the practical part of any ordinance in the church , which was peculiar to her as such ( for as touching prayer , it is a moral duty , and to be made for all men . ) and whether thus boldly to suppose a thing without the least shew of proof , be not a plain begging the main thing in question ? and though it be never so true , that the universal redeemed church consist of the same materials in all ages , yet whether it be not evident that that god made a difference , as to the time of dispensing ordinances to them ? as first no practical ord●nance or 〈◊〉 dispensed to any infant that we read of till abrahams time ; and though then circumcision was ordained for males , yet not for all the male children , for all under eight days of age were prohibited , and yet you grant th●y were in that covena●t , nor any rite at all for the females , who yet were of the same church ? and whether under moses they were not admitted to other rites also , as the pass●over , sacrifices and other holy feast , of the jews ? we therefore ask you why the infants of converted gentiles are not in as good a condition , without any rite or ceremony , as the infants of all the faithful from adam to abraham ? and whether those infants before abraham were not a happy as the infants of abraham ? and then doth it not follow , that the infants of faithful gentiles , are as happy without circumcision , or any other rite or ●eremony whatsoever , as abrahants was under a ceremony , seeing god hath not ohliged them to any in the days of the gospel , o● since the ab●ogation of the law and circumcision ? presbyterian . query . whether if we could shew no written law or promise at first constituting the duty , or granting the priviledge of church-member ship , it were the least disparagement to our cause , as long as we can shew those following , laws which presuppose this ? if moses at the end of that years the church of god had bin without any written law , found all the infants of church-members in possession of this b●n●fit 〈◊〉 what n●ed was there of a new law about it ? or why should god promise it as a new thing ? baptist . antiqu. . whether if there be any such law , you would not have she wed us where it is , longere this day ? and whethen you do not now grant in effect there is no such written law ? and what n●ed you thus to query , seeing we deny no lawful thing to infants , to be done for them by their godly parents , but only oppose your doing that for which you have no law ? presbyterian . query . whether there being certain proof in scripture of infants church-membership , but none except that before , alledged from gen. . that makes any mention of the beginning of it , but all speaking of it as no new thing ; we have not great reason to assign its beginning , which from gen. . is before spoken of ? baptist . antiqu. . why do you say that gen. . . makes mention of infants church-membership , ( otherwise then what we allow ) is here the least hint of your mode of making infants church-members , that is , doth this place bid you admit them to any ordinance ? as for the gracious covenant here made with adam . do we not grant that it extends to infants , yea , we say with mr. baxter , it was never abrogated ? presbyterian . query . is it not unquestionable , that the covenant of grace made to abraham the father of the faithful , comprehended infants for church-members ? and was 〈◊〉 not the same with that gen. . . . but in some things clearlier opened ? were not both these the covenant of grace and free justification by faith in the redeemer ? and did not the covenant made to abraham and his seed , comprehend infants ? and should not the same promise , expressed more concisely be expounded by the same expressed more sully ? baptist . an. . though it be unque stionable that the covenant of grace did extend to infants , gen. . . as well as in abrahams time , yet there was a vast difference in respect of ceremonies . and whether the difference between the baptists and p●dobaptists be not chi●fly ( if not only ) about imposing ceremonies upon infants ? and whether it be not evident that what ceremonies the word of god did even assign to infants , we allow them , respecting the time of their duration , and only oppose your imposing ceremonies upon infants , for which you can assign no authority in the holy scriptures , as is confessed by many pedobaptists . see mr. baxters cure p. . presbyterian . query . whether ( though the hebrews had their peculiarities ) it be at all credible , that the infants of that one small countrey only should be so differently de●lt with by god , from all the world else , even enoch's , noah'● , sem's , and all from adam to the end of the world , that these infants only should be church-members , and n● others . baptist . antiqu. . whether this query ( as indeed almost all the rest ) do not mis the true state of the case , seeing the baptists may and do in a good sence acknowledge infants to be related to the churc● . viz. by redemption , pious dedication to god. &c. and seeing you grant the hebrew , had their peculiarities , in what thing could it be but in external rites and ceremonies , especially concerning infants ; and shew us , if you can , any one nation under heaven , from the beginning of the world to this day , to whom god gave any law to bring their infants to any rites either legal or evangelical . and sith circumcision was forcibly put upon infants , we ask whether you be able to prove , that any person whatsoever are to be forced to baptism , which augustine tells us . infants do strive against with great crying , from whence he infers they have no faith. lib. de pe●cat . mer. & remis . chap. . presbyterian . query . what can be more absurd , then to maintain a transient fact ( as mr. t. hath done ) making infants church-members , without any law , promise , ●r covenant-gra●t of god giving them r●ght ? whether a gift that was never given be not a contradiction ? ( v. p. , ▪ , , . ) and if there was any such promise , or covenant-grant of infant 's church-membership , when , or where was it revoked ? baptist . antiqu. . whether these things be surely suggested against mr. t , and whether you ought not to have set down his opinion in his own words ? and whether he doth not mainly oppose himself against mr. baxter's pretended law for infant church-membership and baptism , whiles yet he denies not infants a saving promise , or the promise of saving prepriety in god. antipedobapt . . part. p. . and whether that book was ever answered by mr. baxter , or ever will by any other ? presbyterian . query . was it only the infants of the hebrews , or of those that were at their absolute dispose , that were church-members ? vvere not the infants of free proselites church-members too ? baptist . antiqu. , what need of this query ? who doubts but that as many others as became jews by being proselited to the law , were circumcised according to the law ? but where do yo● find , that any , either jews or gentiles , when they were baptized , had any , obligation to baptize their children and servants also ? presbyterian . query . vvas it not then the duty of all the nations round about , that could have informati●n of the jewish religion , to engage themselves , and their children to god by circumcision ? and did not many of the people in hester's time become jews , hest . . . who yet were not under their government ? and is it not well known , that this was to be circumcised , they and their little ones , ( as the proselites were ) and so to keep the law of moses ? and whether the circumcised servants of israel , sold away to another nation , and so separated from the civil state of israel , did eo nomine cease to be church-members , though they for sook not god ? and ●o of the infants , if they were sold in infancy ? and so whether infants might not be church-members , that were not of the jews common-wealth ? baptist . antiqu. . although other nations had the liberty to become jewes , yet whether they were under such an obligation , as that they must become jewes , or else not be saved , is worthy consideration ; and whether the contrary will not be found true , when the case of cornelius , act. . and of the gentiles , rom. . are duely considered , whereas the one is accepted as fearing god and working righteousness , as much as the jew upon the account of his jewish worship ? and the other gentiles generally , who did by nature the things contained in the law , were counted the circumcision , so as to judge the jew , who only had the circumcision in the flesh ? and not only so , but so as to be accepted of god , as far ( at least ) as the righteousness of the law would avail the jew ? and whether the infants of these devout gentiles was not free from any obligation to circumcision , or any other external ceremony ? and whether there be not an evident difference between the law and the gospel in this , the one being fitted to the jewish nation only , so as to be capable of an orderly observation there only ? and the gospel fitted sor the observation of all nations equally , and consequently all nations equally obliged to the full and orderly profession thereof ? presbyterian . query . vvere not the israelites children members of the universal visible church , as well as of the congregation of israel ? as he that is a member of the city is a member of the kingdom and a part of a part , is a part of the whole ; so was not ever member of the jews church also a member of gods universal church ? baptist . ant. . whether it be well said to call the universal church visible , and whether the universal church did not contain many thousands such , as job , cornelius , &c , who were neither jews by nature nor religion ? and whether no infants might be said to be members of the universal church , who were not members of the jewish church ? and if not , how shall they be saved , seeing christ is only the saviour of his body finally ? presbyterian . query . was there ever any true church , or ecclesiastical worshipping society appointed by god in all the world since the fall , but the church of christ ? were not infants therefore either members of christs church , or of no church of gods institution ? was not moses christs vsher , and moses church and christ's church one according to god's institution ? baptist . antiqu. . whether this query be not either captious , or else impertin●nt ? for though it should be granted , that the church of christ was the same in some sence from the beginning , yet who knows not that the time and way for admission of the members thereof to external ceremonies , was not always the same ? and who doubts but the church was always of gods institution ? but doth it therefore follow , that the ordinances instituted therein , belongs to infants ? might they not have the passeover , as well as circumcision , in the mosaical church , and yet have neither the lords supper nor baptism in the christian church ? you deny them the one , why may not we as well deny the other ? baptist . query . whether was abraham made a member of the church by circumcision , or circumcised because a member of the church ? the like of infants born in his house ? and how can the ceasing of circumcision prove infants church-membership ceased , any more then it can prove their church-membership began with circumcision ; or that women were not church-members , because not circumcised ; or that all israel was unchurched in the vvilderness , when they were uncircumcised for fourty years ? baptist . antiqu. . although abraham was in the church of god essentially by faith , yet whether formally in that church-st●te , vvhich god was then about to settle , till circumcised , vvill not , i suppose , be hastily affirmed ? and how can infants be said to be in the church , as abraham then was , seeing they have no faith as he had ? and whether the jewish church-state did not cease de jure , when circumcision so ceased ? and then whether that state of infant church-membership did not also cease ? and like as the ceasing of the passeover de jure , was the ceasing of infants right to any such ordinance , even so we ask why the ceasing of circumcision de jure , is not as truly the ceasation of infants right to any such ordinance ? certainly , if gods word assign any ordinances in lieu of the former , the place where 't is written would have b●en known to this day ? presbyterian . query . vvhether the blessing of abraham consists not chiefly in this , that god promised to be a god in covenant with him , and his seed ? and how are the believing gentiles blessed with faithful abraham , and heirs of the same promise , if their infants are not also comprehended in the same covenant ? baptist . antiqu. . whether the blessing of abraham , ( if you understand it of eternal life ) were not the blessing of the fathers that were before him ? and whether that blessing did not belong to their infants ? and whether their infants were partakers with them in any rites or ceremonies of instituted worship ? and if not , then , why may not the infants of the gentiles partake of the blessing of abraham , though not concern'd in rites or ceremonies ? or whether you think the blessing of abraham is confined to ceremonies in respect of infants , if so , shew us what ceremonies these are ? presbyterian . query . whether in that great promise , gen. . tribes , kindreds , families , do not most certainly comprehend infants ? as it was to such families that the promise was made before christ , as to the jewish church ? vvhat warrant have we to understand families or tribes otherwise , when the same promise is made to the gentiles ? baptist . antiq. . whether you ought not to distinguish in this great promise , the things which are eternal from the things that were but for a time ? and then whether you can ima●in● , that all the temporal blessings , rites and ceremonies , ●oncern●d any nation , as it concerned the seed of abraham after the flesh ? but if by this promise you understand it as the apostle paul doth , gal. . . th●n we doubt not but all the kindreds of the earth are con●●●n'd in it ; and then whether we do not sufficiently comprize the ●●ntiles therein ? but how can abrahams rites and c●remonie● be part of this blessing to the gentiles , which are abrogated long ago ? presbyterian . query , whether the second commandment , exod. , , . doth not contain a standing promise , and discove●y of gods resolution , concerning the children of all that love him , whether jews or gentiles , to whom this commandment belongs ? whether god meaneth not that his retribution to parents that love or hate him , shall extend to their children as such ; unless they interrupt it at age by their own acts ; and if to their children qua tales , then whether not to infants ? baptist . ant. . whoever doubted but that infants are advantaged many ways , in the blessings which god bestows on them that fear him ? and accordingly greatly disadvantaged by the wickednefs of their pa●●nts , even so as to bear their fathers iniquities many times , as is evident in the overthrow of the old world , the cities of sodom and samorrah , &c. yet whether the blessing or mercy of eternal life to ●nfants , depend upon the parents love to god ? and whether the ●amnation of infants depend on the wickedness of their parents ? ●nd whether the bless●ngs of the second commandment belong 〈◊〉 to the church as such , or whether all men that follow the ●ules of morality , are not within the reach of these blessings also ? ●nd then how should infant church membership and baptifm be 〈◊〉 blessings of the second commandment seeing this law concerns 〈◊〉 men as m●n being part of the moral law , and is not proper to ●he church only ? presbyterian . query . vvhether any without the church are secured of gods mercy by p●omise ? and whether mercy be not promised to the children of the f●ithsul as such ? ( see p●al . . . and . . prov. . . isa . . , and &c ) ? baptist . antiqu. . whether god hath not said that his ways are all equal ? and whether this do not secure infants of gods mercy , though not baptized ? ( for otherwise we say infants are of the redeemed church ? when god saith , that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and every one shall bear his own iniquity , whether this be not a promiss of mercy to infant children , and that in respect of etern●l life ? and whether the query be not near a kin to that position of the papists when they say , out of the church there is no salva●ion , restraining that word church to visible or actual professors only ? and why must these five quotations be applied to infants only , sith the things spoken of these children , seed , or off-spring , are mostly such as are exclusive of infants ? presbyterian . query . whether these promises in the making of them were limited to a certain time when they were to cease ? or whether they have been since revoked ? baptist . suppose these promises yet remain , as we doubt not but they do , sith they are not entail'd upon the jewish nation , ( at least the three first quotations , ) how will this avail to the point in hand ? are all the blessings of god to the infant off-spring of those that fear him , &c. bound up in your supposed church-membership and baptism ? presbyterian . query . if it was on the jews rejection of christ , that they were broken off from being gods people , were those thousands of jews that believed in christ so broken off ? if not , then whether were not the children of all believing jews church-members in infancy ? or otherwise , was it not somewhat else then vnbelief that brake them off ? baptist . antiqu. . whether was those that cried , his blood be upon us and our children , thereby rejecting the great mess●nger of the covenant , ●ustly broken off ? and whether the renting of the vail of the temple , did not shew the abrogation of the covenant and the legal ministry ? whether was saul broken off when he persecuted the church causing many to blaspheme ? and how could the jews lawfully be married to christ , if moses was not now removed , without being called an adulteress ? and then whether those thousands of jews which believed were not first broken off , so as to plead no longer upon this issue , we are abrahams children , we are free-born , &c. and to look upon circumcision and whatsoever was gain to them on a legal acco●nt , to be loss for christ ? or is there any other way to be graffed in to the church of christ , but by faith ? nowtherefore seeing the jews were in no better case then th● gentiles , circumcision being now nothing , even as uncircumcision was nothing , b●ta new creature ? then whether all the infants of the jews now ceas●● to be m●mbers of any visible church , seeing ●heir parents had de jure lost their memb●rship ? presbyterian . query . were not the infants of the christian jews the day before their conversion members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , ( of which the jews were but a part ? and doth it not sound strengely , that such infants as were the day before members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , should be put out of the jewish and the whole visible church , by the faith of their parents , or without unbelief ? either it was a mercy to be a member , of the church , or not : if it was no mercy , then will it not follow , that the unbelieving jews lost nothing by being broken off ? if it was a mercy , how did the christians children forfeit it ? baptist . antiqu. . whether we have not sufficiently shewed , that the infants of the jews were now no members of the jewish church , that being now abrogated , and the gospel church state confirmed by the death of christ , and the pouring out of the holy ghost ; neither could two distinct church states stand together de jure . and then whether it be not a great mistake for the q●aerist to suppose the jews were a part of gods universal church , when in truth they were no church at all ? and therefore whether the wonder which he makes about the jews infants which believed , be not groundless ? and yet whether the infants of the believing jews were not in a far better estate , then when their parents were unbelievers , sith the curse they then had imprecated , was now removed ? also whether it was not a mercy , that both parents and infants were set free from circumcision , which whatever it was before , now ceased to be a mercy to any man , because it was an obligation to the yoke of bondage , and rendred christ unprofitable to such as should now receive it ; and consequently a release from that church-membership according to the law , was a great mercy to infants , who still retain membership in the invisible church , as they did before circumcision was in being ? presbyterian . query . whether it be credible , that he who came not to cast out jews , but to bring in gentiles , breaking down the partition-wall , and making of two one church , would have a chureh of so different form and constitution , that the church at jerusalem should have infant-members , and the church at rome should have none ? that the jews infants should be members , and not gentiles ? if the jews were broken off by unbelief , should they not be graffed in again upon their repentance of faith ? and so should not every repenting believing jews infants be church-members ? or otherwise how would their graffing in answer to their breaking off , should they be but in part graffed in ? baptist . antiqu. . whether it be not a great mistake to say , that christ came to make the jew and gentile one church , otherwise then by taking away the jewish church , and making all things new , cor. . . &c. and whether this might not be done without setling any of the practical ordinances upon infants as under the law ? if otherwise , why have you not shewed us where christ hath required parent● to get their infants baptized ? and where he forbade them to be brought to imposition of hands , the table of the lord , &c. if the denial of the first make our infants no members of the church , doth not your denial of the other two , which do as generally pertain to members of the church , make yours none also ? and if the church at jerusalem , rome , &c. had any infant-members therein , in the sence wherein you would have them members , why do you not name some one infant so made a member , sith you know it would suffice , wherher if the jews grafting in , must in all points answer to their breaking off , their infants must not come to other ordinances as well as baptism ? or will you say infants cannot partake with their parents of salvation without baptism ? or whether was the infants of the jews exposed to damnation by their parents unbelief ? and if so , what is become of all their infants ever since ? presbyterian . query . was not christ church spiritual before his incarnation ( when it took in infants ) and gathered in a spiritual way ? was not ●he visible frame of the jewish church set up and erected by the father of spirits , and were not spiritual duties commanded then ▪ upon promises of spiritual blessings , even lise eternal ? how will any prove that it was a blemish to the old frame , that infants were members ? what was the church the worse for infants rights ? if it be no blemish , why must it be done away ? baptist . antiqu. . though it be true , that christs church was always spiritual in some measure , and his services such also ; yet whether it be not also true , that the church under the law of moses was carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the church under the gospel ? does not the apostle say , cor. . these two ministrations differ as much as letter and spirit differeth ; and that the glory of the one had no glory in respect of the glory which excelleth ? and is it not then rational , that the churches concern'd under these ministrations respectively should differ aecordingly ? and though it was no blemish to the jewish church , to have infants partakers of their ordinances , which are called carnal , yet whether it be not a more perfect state , when the church do al● know god , from the least to the greatest of them ? and whether this be not the state of the church under the gospel , according to gods appointment ? heb. . , , , . and whether that which is less perfect ought not to vanish away when that which is more perfect is come . in that he saith a new covenant , he hath made the first old , now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away , heb. . . presbyterian . query . in what regard were the new frame better , supposing the casting out of infants , which were in the old ? how doth infants relation detract from its spirituality ? do not the adult come in by ●he same kind of consent for themselves , as they make for their infants ? and do not the adult blemish the church with more carnal sins then infants do ? would any kingdom be more excell●nt , if all infants were disfranchised ? does not nature teach all kingdoms on earth , to take them f●r members , though but infant-members ? baptist . antiqu. . whether it be necessary to say infants are cast out of that whereof they were never possessed , to wit , the use of ordinances in the new frame of the church ? or how can infants be said to be a spiritual seed ? how are they living stones , built up a spiritual house ; to offer spiritual sacrifices in a gospel sense ? or how are your infants a more spiritual seed then our infants ? and whether any other are by christs order to partake in gospel-ordinances , then such as therein worship god spiritually ? and whether hence it be not clear , that the way of making infants church-members do not detract from the spirituality of the new frame of the church ? also where hath god required the adult to consent for their insant church m●mbership in this new frame ? and whether the comparison between an earthly kingdom and the ghurch of christ be any way fitting , seeing infants have as much need of the priviledge of humane laws , for the preservation of their lives and rights as grown persons ? but how stand they in need of the laws of the church , ( and particularly baptism ) for the preservation of their souls . and whether this similitude may not be emproved against you , seeing infants , though members of kingdomes , yet are excused from all duties personal wbatsoever , and then why may they not be reputed of the kingdom of god , and yet exempt from the duties of his kingdom ? or how come they to be concern'd so much in that one duty of baptism , and no other whatsoever ? presbyterian . query . whether any jew at age was a member of the old church without professing faith , ( in the articles then necessary to salvation ) repentance and obedience ? and wherein the supposed new call and frame doth in this differ from the old , save only that a more full and express revelation of christ requireth a more full express faith ? is it not evident , that they were to profess consent to gods covenant , which who so denied asa would put to death ? and was not circumcision a covenanting act ? and did they not thereby prosess to take god for their god ? or would god else have taken them for his people ? and would not renouncing god have cut them off ? baptist . antiqu. . what is become now of your infant church-membership ; if when grown up they cease to be members upon that account ? were the jews infants twice made members of their church ? or is every renewing the covenant , ( as in the case of asa , ) making men members of the church ? but where did the church ever admit one member to her communion by baptism without profession ? or where did she ever decree , that those who would not submit to her new frame should be put to death ? and whether in this the new frame of the church do not greatly differ from the old ? presbyterian . query . whether gods law obligeth not persons to devote themselves , and their infants to god , by consenting to gods covenant for themselves and them ? whether it was not the duty of the israelites to engage and devote their children to god in covenant ? whether this be not evident from the penalty ( even to be cut off from his people ) annexed for the non-performance ? ( and whether this be not as much our duty still ? ) does not the law of nature bind us to give to every one his own due ? and are not infants god's own due ? does not the law of nature bind parents to give them up to god by acknowledging his right , with a free resignation and dedication of the inf●n● to god as his own ? baptist . antiq. . where are christian parents required to devote their children by consenting to any covenant for them ( or in their stead , as the jews were in matters of religion : and what penalty hath god imposed on them that devote not their insants by sprinkling them as you do ? and whether we do omit the duty of devoting our children to god in any thing wherein the law of god or nature obligeth us , ( abating us all what must be abated ) ? and who denies infants to be capable of infant-relation , obligation or right , or who opposes their being devoted to god in their capacity ? and whether this be not a meer noise of words , as if all that do not as you do , do lay a side their care and duties towards infants ? and where is the institution of your publick way ? have we not a more certain instituted way to devote them to god by prayer , and to educate them in his fear , as they are capable , then you have to cross or sprinkle them ? presbyterian . query . whether anabaptists themselves , all of them that are truly pious , do not vertually ( though not actually ) devote their children to god , and consent to their covenant-relation , while they vehe●ently plead against it ? baptist . antiqu. . whether you do not greatly wrong your self , and those you call anabaptists , in saying , they vehemently plead against devoting their children to god ; yea sure , they do it actually as far as gods word requires ? and can you believe , that there is no way to devote children to god but in your way ? how then did adam , enoch , scth , noah , &c. devote their children to god ? and it would do well also if you could shew us how they consented to any covenant for their infants , more then we do ? or prove if you can , that you your selves do consent to the covenant of grace for your infants , more then we whom you call anabaptists ? does not eusebius pamphilius count christianity as old as adam ? l. . c. . and doth not tertullian say , enoch justissimum non circumcisum nec sibbatizantem , &c. enochan upright man was translated by god , though he were not circumcised , neither yet did observe the sabba●h . --- vt aeternitas candidatis , &c. to the end , that he who did aspire to eternity might shew us , that we might please god without the burthen of moses law. and what law ( save the la● of circumcision ) did ever require infants to be brought to practical ordinances in the church of god ? presbyterian . query . is it not a desperate undertaking , and dare any adventure on it , to justifie all the world before christs incarnation , except the jews , from the guilt of not dedicating their children to god ? and do not they that say there is no law in this case , say there is no transgression ? a●d dare any in like manner undertake to justifie at the bar of god all the vvorld since christs incarnation from the guilt of sin , in not dedicating their children'to christ , and entring them into his covenant as members of his church ? dare any maintain that all the world is sinless in this respect ? baptist . antiq. . whether this be not a very unwise query ? as if none of the fathers did dedicate their infants to god , unless they brought them to some practical ordinance in the church , which is the only thing you do so complain of ? and how , i pray you , did abraham , isaac and jacob dedicate their female infants to god , sith we finde no practical ordinance for them in infancy ? or who goes about to justifie the world , if they do not as the law of god and nature wills them to do for their infants ? and may we not well justifie all men , for not doing that which the law of god never required ? presbyterian . query . is it not a great benefit and priviledge to be a visible church-member of christ as head of the church , and of his church as visible ? is it not abenefit in it self ( besides the consequents ) to be visibly united and related to christ and his body ? is not such a relation to god the father , son and holy ghost , and to the church , an honor ? and how great is the misery of a contrary state ? and if infant church-membership were no benefit , then how were they that had it , ( when they came to age , or their parents in the mean time ) obliged to any thankfulness for it ? will any say , that neither they nor their parents were obliged to thankfulness upon this account ? baptist . antiqu. . what benefit is it to bring infants to that which god requires not of them ? or whether it be any loss to them till god requires it ? and seeing you make your pedo-rantism this all in all , shew us what benefit or priviledge you had when sprinkled , more then the infants of a pious baptist ? and what is that benefit that all who are sprinkled by the papists ▪ do receive , which you ratifie for good baptism ? or how are their infants church-members more then ours ? and whether our children when grown up , have not a fairer way to the purity of christianity , in that they are not entangled with such traditions ? presbyterian . query . is it not certain that infants are capable of this benefit , if god deny it not , but will give it them as well as the aged ? and is it not certain , that they are actually members of all the commonwealths in the world ? ( perfecte , sed imperfecte membra ) and does not nature seem actually to have taught most people on earth , to repute their infants in the same religiou● society with themselves , as well as in the same civil society ? baptist . antiqu. . that infants are capable of what god will give them is very true ; and we therefore ask , whether infants be not as capable of the lords supper as baptism , if the lord will give it them ? and as far as gods will is , that infants should be related to his church , we doubt not of their capacity for it . and why is the order of commonwealths so much insisted on in this case ? are we to fetch our rules for dispensing ordinances in the church , from the civil policie of nations ? we desire you still to show us what the law of nature obligeth us to do for our infants , which we do not ? is both the law of god and nature broken by all that bring not their infants to be crossed or sprinkled as you do ? sure you can never make this good . baptist . query . whether according to the tenour of the covenant of grace , god will not vouchsafe to be their god , and take them for his people , ( that are in a natural , or law-sense ) willing to be his people , and take him for their god ? and whether the infants of believing parents are not thus willing ? when infants cannot be actually willing themselves in a natural sense , must not the reason and will of another be theirs in law-sense , that is , of the parents , have the full dispose of them , and are warranted by the law of nature to choose for them ( for their good ) till they come to the use of reason themselves . whether in gods acceptance the child doth not thus truly consent by the believing parents , and doth not covenant with god , as a child covenanteth and consenteth reputatively among men , who by his parents is made a party in contract , as in a lease for his life , or the like ? and so granting the relation of church-membership , to be founded in a mutual contract , covenant or consent betwixt god and us , yet must not this consent on our part differ according to the different age and capacity of infants , and the adult ? were not the israelites infants church-members , who consented not actually in their own persons , but virtually , and reputatively ? baptist . antiqu. . we still require you to shew where this law is , that obligeth christians to will the baptizing of their infants , and that will warrant the baptizing of one person by vertue of anothers will ? and why may not a reputative baptism serve as well as a reputative covenant , sith the covenant is greater then baptism ? and whether this be an advised speech , that the parent hath the whole disposal of his child in matters of religion ? and who must judge what is good for his infant in religious matters ? must not gods word do this ? and shew us what command we have omitted , in not bringing our infants to the font as you do ? or do you think that your instance of a lease , is sufficient to rectifie mens consciences in matters of this nature ? and what if some of the jews had failed to consent for their children , were they therefore not in covenant ? sure it was the law , not the parents consent , that regulated these matters . neither do we finde , that the israelites were bound to repent and believe in the person of the child , and accordingly to make profession in his name , when circumcised , as you do at the font when you pretend to baptize your infants , when yet you baptize them not , seeing sprinkling cannot be truly called baptism ? presbyterian . query . whether it be not the duty of parents by the law of nature , to accept of any allowed or offered benefit for their children ? the infant being not sui juris , but at his parents dispose in all things that are for his good , have not the parents power to oblige their children to any future duty or suffering , that is certainly for their own good ? and so may they not enter them into covenants accordingly ? and is it not unnaturally sinful for a parent to refuse to do such a thing , when it is to the great benefit of his own child ? and doth it not deserve to be called the unthankful error , that opposeth childrens rights , and blessings ? baptist . antiqu. . whether this query be not the same in effect , which we have had again and again ? and we would know what offered benefits the infant of the pedobaptists meet with , among the papists , or your selves either , which we received not , meerly for this cause of not doing to our infants , as they and you are pleased to do ? and whether it were not as reasonable for parents to be baptized in the childs stead , as to profess faith and repentance for him ? and whether it be reasonable for a parent to oblige his infant to be of his opinion and practice , and to suffer for the same ? and what law of god requires this , and whether this may not be called the unreasonable errour ? presbyterian . query . vvhether it may be thought , or any dare maintain , that the covenant of grace giveth no conditional right to any infant in the world ? are they all excluded ? and why ? are they worse then their parents ? if it give any right to infants conditionally , as it doth t● parents , must it not be on a condition to be performed by the parents , or such as are so far entrusted ? or can this be called a covenant , for god only to say [ i will save all such infants as i elect ] and yet offer salvation to none of them in the world on any condition , nor give a title to any person that can be known by themselves or others ? would it not be to confound the decree of god with his covenant ? and what right or hope doth this give to christians for their children more then to pagans ? baptist . antiqu. . whether it may be thought that god should require the conditions of the covenant of grace on them , which he knows can observe none at all ; or whether it be his will , that the grace of that covenant should depend upon others observation of the conditions for them ? and whether this be not to put the salvation of infants out of his own hand , and into the hand of such as commonly neglect their own ? and is not this to expo●e poor infants to ruine , whose parents generally are so far from keeping , that they are strangers to the conditions of this covenant ? and where are we taught to doubt the salvation of the infants of pagans ? or to conclude ours only are in the state of salvation ? and is it not much more secure to hope the salvation of infants on the ground of christs dying for them , and rising again for their justification ▪ then upon any practical in religion ? and where did god ever since the beginning of the world , give any ordinance to be necessary to the salvation of any infant in the world ? can you believe that the cutting off of the uncircumcised man-child , was a cutting off from salvation ? how then were all the infants saved which were born to the israelites for fourty years together , such of them , i mean , as died during that time ? and why may not infants as well be made righteous without any thing done on their part , as they were made sinners without any thing done on their part ? will not the second adams obedience salve the first adams disobedience ? and may not poor infants better plead in the day of judgement what christ did for them , then what your godfathers or proparents did for them ? presbyterian . query . though all that are saved , are saved by the meritorious righteousness of christ , by way of free gift ; yet whether the condition be not a suteable acceptance ? and why may not a parent accept a donation for his child , who hath no will to accept it for himself ? shall he be certainly shut out unto damnation ? or shall he have that gift absolutely which is conditional to all others ? or is he not concerned in the donation at all ? and have not infants guilt and misery from their parents ? and though life and pardon be by christ only , yet is it not congruous , that the meer condition of acceptance may b● performed by the parents , ( while they cannot accept for themselves ? ) baptist . antiq. . whether the meritoriousness of christ is not as available to save infants without any mans acceptance thereof for them ▪ or whether hath god ty'd the salvation of any person to the acceptance of another ? and whether these be not unreasonable and unscriptural conceits ? and whether it be not for want of better grounds for infant-baptism , that you thus continually tautologize , varying little from that which you have said once and again ? presbyterian . query . ( whether it be no advantage for children to be under an early engagement to god , and jesus christ ? ) whether to dedicate them betimes to god , doth not tend to secure god's right and childrens good , and to prevent their sin and misery ; they being thus under a double obligation , which they may be minded of betimes , and which may hold them more strongly to their duty , and disadvantage the tempter that would draw them off from god , &c ▪ baptist . antiqu. . who is against as early an engagement of children to god as can lawfully be made ▪ and do not the baptists engage their children to god as soon as they can , by prayer and supplication whiles infants ; and then by the best education they are able when docible ? but whether any thing be done to purpose in your judgement ( when yet all is done that can be done ) unless it be rantized in your way ? and whether it be not b●tter to leave the event of their accepting baptism to the wise dispose of god , then to do it per force in infancy , without precept from god ? also whether the infant-baptism be such a means to propagate religion as you suppose , may be seen , when you consider how in the darkness of popery , pedobaptism was more common then now , but christianity much less ? and name one if you can , that was bettered in christian vertue by pedobaptism ? we think we can name one , and that your self , which is worse for it , for had you not that to rest on , you would probably desire to put on christ in baptism ? whether it be not the fittest time to be buried with christ in baptism , when we are dead with him from the rudiments of the world , or whether it be reasonable to bury sinners therein till they be dead to sin ? and whether it can profit any person to be baptized , unless he have the answer of a good conscience , by the resurrection of christ from the dead , pet. . therein ? presbyterian . query . . whether it can be proved , that ever there was one age or church ( particular ) on earth since adam , till about years ago , that the anabaptists rose , wherein infants de facto were not members of the church ? baptist . antiqu. . whether in your sense of making infants members of the church de facto , it can be proved there was any one so made a member from the beginning of the world till abrahams time ? and whether john baptist , christ , or any by his order , did receive infants into the church de facto . and whether the baptist do not better prove the antiquity of their faith and practice in baptism then any aedo baptist in the world ? and doth not your conscience tell you , that the baptism of men and women , upon profession of faith and repentance , is beyond the reach of contradiction ? whilest m. baxter himself confesses infant-baptism to be so difficult , that many of its assertors , both protestants and papists , are forced to confess it cannot be proved by the scriptures ? see his cure p. . and seeing you and we are generally agreed , that our way both for subject and manner is out of dispute , clear in the scriptures ; and you confess by the pen of mr. baxter , that yours is very difficult , is it not reason the difficult way should give place to the clear and evident way ? presbyterian . query . vvhether it can be proved , that ever there was any one i●fant of true church-members , that was not rightfully a church-member himself from the creation till christ's days ? or from the creation till this day ; except the anabaptists , who reject the benefit , whose case we will not presume to determine ? baptist . antiqu. . whether this query be not the same we had before ? and whether what is said to it , may not also suffiee to this ? presbyterian . query . seeing that infants have been de facto church-members from the creation to this day ( as far as any records can lead us ) is it likely , that the lord , and head , and all-sufficient governour of his church , would have permitted his church till now , to be actually made up of such subjects , as in regard of age be disallowed , and suffered his church to be wrong framed till now ? or is it a reasonable , modest and lawful undertaking , to go about now in the end of the world to make god a new framed church . as to the age of the subjects ? and is it not more modest and safe , to live quietly in a church of that frame , as all the saints of heaven lived in , till the other day , as a few anabaptists did attempt an alteration ? baptist . antiqu. . whether it be not utterly untrue , that infants were members of the church de facto , i.e. to be brought to partake of ordinances practical in the church , save only from abraham to the end of the law ? and whether all the pedobaptists in the world have not hitherto been unable to shew any one instance before abraham , or since the law was abrogated , so much as one infant admitted to any such ordinance in the church of ●od , according to what the scriptures afford in thi● 〈◊〉 ? and ●●●her it be not as modest in us to labour to restore ●●ptism to its pure use in the church , both in respect of the subject and manner of administration thereof , as it was for the protestants to do the like in respect of the lords supper ? also whether your pretending the authority of the universal church , be not the same figment , with which the papists deceived themselves and others ? and how can you pretend the universal church , when the primitive church is on our side ? presbyterian . query . whether considering christs own infant-mem●●rship , and his kind reception of infants , and his chiding those that would have kept them off , and his offers of taking in all the jewish nation , ( matth. . . ) and that they were broken off by unbelief , and consequently the seed of believers broken off from the church vniversal , and that whole housholds are oft said to be baptized , and that paul pronounceth believers children holy , and that christ ( mat. . ) commanded his ministers , as much as in them lieth , to disciple all nations baptizing them , & c ? baptist . antiqu. . whether christs infants church-membership did not pertain to the jewish church only , gal. . . born under the law only , &c. and whether he was not about years when he entred in our profession , heb. . . the apostle and high priest of our profession christ jesus . see luke . and then whether his example be not flat against you ? also whether christs only praying for infants , and not baptizing them though brought to him , neither ordering any other to do it that we reade of , do not shew us that infants may be under the blessings of christ without baptism ? and whether you may not tremble to presume to do more then he did , or appointed to be done ? are you wiser then he ? also whether it lies within the power of any minister to disciple an infant ; or shew us one infant with you , or any pedo-baptist ever made a disciple ? or be pleased to come and make my infants disciples if you can , and i promise you i will assist you what i can in the baptizing them ? and not only so , but do my best to employ you elsewhere , i speak it seriously . and whether this would not do more to decide the controversie , then all the books that are written by any of you ? and if you cannot do this , how will matth. . . warrant you to baptize infants , sith its plain that discipling goes before baptizing ? and how disciples are to be made we think it best to learn of jesus , john . . how think you ? do you indeed believe , that any person being of the nation , entitles them to● b●ptism ? why then who is not a fit subject , seeing all infants ●nd men too are of one nation or another ? and if there be other qualifications necessary , whether to be taught be not one of the chief of them ? and why do you say we take infants away from christs church , because we baptize them not ; are they in it before baptized ? if so , how do we take them away ? presbyterian . query . in summ , whether . god would not have parents devote their children to him , and enter them according to their capacity in his covenant ? . whether also he doth not accept into his covenant all that are faithfully thus devoted to him , and be not peculiarly their god , that such children are holy ? . whether they are not as certainly members , according to an infant-capacity , of the visible church , as they are of all kingdoms under heaven ? . whether there be not far more hope of their salvation , then of those without ? . whether the covenant doth not make their salvation certain , if they so die ? . whether the invest●ure and solemnization of their covenant with christ should not be made in infancy , & c ? baptist . antiqu. . in summ , . whether we do not as much to our infants ( in our capacity ) as christ did to the infants which were brought to him ? and will not that sati●fie , unless we go from him to follow you ? and as to the business of the covenant , let us hear what mr. baxter saith , more r●●s . p. . all mankind is brought by christ under a covenant of grace , which is not vain or repealed by god , but as their abuse of the grace of the covenant may cast them out ; for as a covenant of entire nature was made with all mankind in innocent adam ; so a covenant of grace was made with all mankind in lapsed adam , gen. . . in the promised seed ; and renewed again with all ma●kind in noah , &c. and now we ask whether our infants according to this account of the covenant of grace be not in it without bapti●m , fith they have not abused the grace of the covenant ? and whether baptism be not far more proper , when after they have corrupted themselves by sin , they come to humiliation , and so to enter into this covenant upon the termes of the gospel ? whether your exposition of the universal church , upon mat. . . do take in the practice of the apostles in pursuance of that commission to the acts of the apostles , and the exposition of the baptists ? and if not , then you either deny us to be of the universal church , or else you have not the exposition of the church universal ? presbyterian . query . how inconsiderable a part of the universal church do the anabaptists hold communion with ? and do they not unchurch almost all the churches on earth ? ( may we not think , that they rob christ of more them nine parts of ten of his kingdom , or church universal ? v. p. . ) baptist . antiqu. . whether upon luthers revolt from the pope , you were not upbraided with holding communion with an inconsiderable part of the universal church ? why do you take up the papists weapons ? did not that pious man that succoured athanasius in the time of the arrian persecution answer the objection well , when he said , the cause of truth is not therefore empaired , because i am alone ; --- glory not therefore in multitudes , for it is not the multitude but the cause that justifieth or condemneth ? also whether we may not also conclude , that many are of the universal church , which do not communicate with us or your selves ? and yet whether the separation from many pedobaptists will not justifie our separation from you more clearly ? presbyterian . query . whether they can possibly hop● , that ever the church on earth will unite upon their terms , of rejecting all their infants from the visible church , and renouncing all our infant-rights and benefits conferred by the baptismal covenant of grace ? baptist . antiqu. . whether this be in effect to say , what will these feeble jews do ? and why may we not hope that this great mistake of yours may vanish , as well as that great mistake of austin , and the generality of men prosessing christianity , who brought infants also to the lords table , and that for many hundreds of years together , and defended it by as plaufible reasons as any you have for baptizing them ? could god reform so great and general an errour , forced on by learning and authority of eminent men ; and shall we think this thing only too hard for god ▪ our small number shall not make us doubt , for we know god doth great things by small means . and what baptismal grace do we desire you to renounce , when we only defire you to mend an errour ; did the twelve disciples , acts . renounce any baptismal grace , when ( according to the interpretation of the ancients ) they were baptized again ? surely reformation is no errour . presbyterian . query . and whether if they continue to the worlds end to separate from almost all the churches and unchurch them , their employment will not be still to serve the great enemy of love and concord , against the lord of love and peace , and against the profperity of faith and godliness , and against the welfare of the church and souls , and to the scandal and hardning of the ungodly ? baptist . antiqu. . whether the separation is not justly chargeable upon those which cause divisions and offences , by asserting and maintaining such errours , as being admitted , the way of god must be corrupted , or laid aside ? and whether these are not the men , that ( at least unawares ) serve the design of the great enemy , and whether you are not guilty of the fault wherewith you would charge us ? p●esbyterian . . whether too many well-meaning , but weak christians , are not disaffected to lawful and warrantable things in the worship of god , meerly because they see such as are ungodly use and own them ? and whether if god should but let us have a king and other rulers , that were against infant-baptism , and singing of psalmes , &c. and would make laws for their own way , and impose it on others , so that the ungodly multitude should fall in with them , it would not presently cure many that are now for such opinions ? baptist . antiqu. . whether many , but weak christians , would hold to the errou● of infant-sprinkling , but meerly because j. b. and mr. baxter , &c. do so . and whether this be not as much weakness of the one hand , as the case put by you on the other ? and whether both ought not to be amend●d ? and whether the latter part of this query do not shew , that to follow the greatest number is not always the best way ? and why then would you discourage us by our paucity ? and whether such confiderations might not have discouraged the apostles , seeing they were to alter the state of religion in the jewish church , yea , throughout the whole world ? presbyterian . query . whether mr. baxter in the second and third part of that his second defence of our infants rights , have not sufficiently detected the great and notorious untruths in fact and history , wherewith mr. h. d. treatise of baptism , and reply to mr. willes is fully stuffed . baptist . antiqu , . whether mr. d. and mr. tombes have not sufficiently detected mr. baxters mistakes in many of his works 〈◊〉 infant-baptism . and particularly in mr. tombes his felo de se . also whether mr. wills exceptions against mr. d. are not well foiled by mr. d. in his twofold defence of his treatise of baptism ; and whether mr. baxter did ever yet , or ever will accept of mr. tombes his serious challenge lately made in these words . i challenge him to set down distinctly his theses , concerning the grace he meanes , the covenant of grace , what and whose it is , how it is bap , iswal , what are the rights and benefits conferred to infants by it , using words in their proper sence and genuine notions , and then without questions , exclamations , flirts , suppositions improved , set down his scriptures , and form his arguments substantially --- and then i doubt not but learned and accurate disputants will see his folly , &c. postscript to mr. d. second reply p. . presbyterian . query . whether the anabaptists schism , or separation from communion with our churches be not worse yet then their simple opinion ? and whether it be not desirable , and possible , that some may be found out , and terms laid down , in which good and sober men on both sides would agree and hold communion ? baptist. antiqu. . whether the papists may not on fairer grounds query thus with the protestantt , then you can do with us , especially when the cause you manage against us is so doubtful in the judgement of its best friends ▪ as we shewed in our preface ; and here we shall further add what mr. y. notes in his first reply , p. . mr. chillingworth ( saith he ) in his answer to knot 's charity maintain'd , part . . c. . § . . p. . saith , the doctrine of infant-baptism is of that sort , of which the scripture is silent . and the oxford-divines , in their reasons os the present judgement of the university , &c. june . . do. sect . . p. . say , that without the consent , judgment and practice of the universal church , ( which they distinguish from the scriptures ) they should be at a loss when they are called upon for proof of the baptizing infants . now this considered with what dr. taylor saith , dissuasive from popery , p. . that it is certain , there is no universal or prime tradition for baptizing infants , then whether you may not more securely forbear baptizing your infants , till endowed with knowledge and faith , then to do it without . and in the mean time retain your opinion about their being in the covenant of grace , and let christs ministers or your selves pray for them after the example of christ . and whether this might not be a more likely way for a lasting peace between the baptists and the pedobaptists , and more consonant to the scriptures then the way propounded by you ? and seeing it shall come into your hearts to make some overtures for peace , we desire you would prosecute that needful work. and whether it may not better be done by personal conference in a friendly and christian manner , then by writing books one to another . and whether the baptists have not offered this , and bin rejected by you in such their tenders of friendship ? may these queries and antiqueries have an effectual tendency to the increase of love and chirstian friendship , and if not , whether it had not been better they had been unwritten ? finis . the postscript . shewing that infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . receiving lately in writing a proposition from a minister of the church of england , to which i sent him certain arguments , to prove what is denied in the said proposition ; i shall here offer the same to consideration . the proposition is this , prop. infant-baptism is not contrary to the command of christ . contra. infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . arg. . if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is of divine institution , but infant-baptism is not of divine institution , ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because there is only one baptism instituted by christ . the minor is true , because no man can shew any divine institution of infant-baptism . arg. . if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it agrees with christs commission for the perpetuity of baptism , mat. . . but infant-baptism is not agreeable to the commission from the perpetuity of baptism , mat. . . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded nothing contrary to his own commission . the minor is true , sith no man can shew any agreement between the commission and infant-baptism . arg. . if infant baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is agreeable to the practice of the apostolical churches , but infant-baptism is not agreeable to the practice of the apostolical churches . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major i● true , because the apostolical church did observe all that christ commanded in the case of baptism . the minor is true , because no man can shew , the apostolical churches did baptize so much as one infant . arg. . if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is the baptism of repentance for remission of sin . but infant-baptism is not the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ; ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded no baptism , but the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , acts . . and eph. . . the minor is true , because infants have all the remission needful in infancy , without repentance , else they can have no remission . arg. . that which hath in a great measure , and naturally tends wholly to make void the baptism commanded by christ , is contrary to the command of christ . but infant-baptism hath in a great measure , and naturally tends wholly to make void the baptism commanded by christ . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commands nothing to make void his own command . the minor is true , for where infant-baptism is generally rcceived , there believers baptism ceaseth . arg. . if infant-baptism be as unreasonable , as to baptise persons when they are asleep or dead , then it is contrary to the command of christ . but infant-baptism is as unreasonable as to baptize persons when they are asleep or dead . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded nothing that is unreasonable , i mean , that which is really so according to truth , and not in mans judgement only . the minor is true , first becaufe those who baptize infant● do usually do it when they are a●leep ; secondly , because the grounds usually insisted on for infantbaptism , will as well justifie the baptizing persons asleep or dead ; ● mean , such only as have known and believed in the lord jesus ; yea , the scripture may seem ( according to interpreters , to hint some such thing to have been done in the christian church , and he not approve it ) but no such intimation touching any infant . arg. . that practice which renders the practice of christ and his true followers , ( who were baptized in rivers , or much water ) superfluous or ridiculous , and which agreeth not with the word baptize , when used in the new testament to express the act done in that ordinance , is contrary to the command of christ . but the sprinkling of infants now used by the presbyterians , renders the practice of christ and his true followers , ( who were baptized in rivers or much water ) supersluous or ridiculous , and agreeth not with the signification of the word baptize , when used to express ( according to the new testament ) the act done in that ordinance . ergi , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . t●e major is evident , because christ would command nothing to reflect dishonour upon his own practice , the minor is true , because if sprinkling a little water on the face only be su●ficient , then immersion or dipping in the river must needs be superfluous , &c. neither can the word baptize and rantize , with any equity of speech or good sence , be used to ezpress the same action . thus , though we justly refuse infant-baptism , because no man can prove it commanded by christ , yet that we may more effectually perswade our countreymen , to admit of the restoration of this ordinance to pristine integrity , we have offered these arguments to shew how contrary to christs command is that darling tradition os pedobaptism . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e from the institution of baptism . from the institution of bapt●sm from the practice of the first church . from the necessity of repentance , where sin is washed away baptismally . from the ill consequence of infant-baptism . for the unreasonableness therof . from the dishonour i● offereth to christs practice . the slanderer rebuked, or, the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby, a seller of wool in the city of norwich grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the slanderer rebuked, or, the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby, a seller of wool in the city of norwich grantham, thomas, - . p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. signed at end: tho. grantham. imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- catechisms. baptists -- england. persecution -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - pip willcox sampled and proofread - pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the slanderer rebuked : or , the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby , a seller of wool in the city of norwich . it is now about fourteen years , i think , since two of my neighbours being desired by me to coard or geld a ram for me , one of them , ( robert hareby by name ) having ground joining unto mine , finding a ram ( very much like mine ) in his pasture , caught him , ( verily thinking he was mine ) and brought him to my yard , where my other neighbour ( mr. john lark by name ) did coard him , as i had formerly desired him , and let him go , not doubting but he was mine , and they both knew my sheep as well as my self . * but we were all mistaken , for this ram proved a poor man's , who dwelt near us ; and the ram dying of his gelding , the owner complained , and desired my self and mr. lark to consider his loss , which i willingly did , and gave him half the value of his ram , which was six shillings eight pence : and here was an end of the business without sute or trouble , though some ill men advised the poor man to sue us , and to put us to trouble . but as ill men desire to abuse the innocent , so this accident became a reproach to me ; and from gelding a ram , they turn'd it to stealing a ram. but my neighbours knowing my innocency , did vindicate my reputation , so that the clamor ceased in those parts where i then lived , [ which was at ashby next spilsby in the county of lincoln ] insomuch that none but vile persons would so much as mention it . now since i came to dwell in norwich , there came a seller of wool under the title of mr. toathby , ( whom i could not see , though i went to his inn as soon as i heard of him ) and he was pleased to reproach me by this accident , in the vilest manner that might be , ( as the inn-keeper told me ) and his slander was very pleasing to such as delight in falshood , insomuch as i found it needful to detect this lying slander , by the testimony of such of my neighbours at ashby aforesaid , who are yet living , and who very well know the circumstances of this matter . what i wrote to them , with their answers , i shall here commit to posterity , to detect the wickedness of such as have or hereafter shall attempt to abuse me upon this occasion . to my loving neighbours in ashby next spilsby , greeting , &c. sirs ; i am now settled ( as the place of my residence ) in the city of norwich ; and here came a person out of lincolnshire , a seller of combed wool , and defamed me as a great rogue , and a † tup-stealer . now some of you being yet living to testify how innocent i was in that accident , which happened by the over-sight of robert hareby and mr. john lark ( our neighbours , ) in bringing up to my yard , and coarding a ram for mine , which , unknown to them and my self , was another man's , as you very well know . i do therefore earnestly intreat you , to send me your testimony of the truth concerning this matter , and of my conversation among you , for i am much abused by the false report of this unworthy person . you have heard mr. lark speak of this matter , and his son can testify the same . thus with my kind love to you all , i remain , your loving neighbour , tho. grantham . norwich may . . the testimony of my neighbours in ashby aforesaid , may , . these are to satisfy whom it may concern , that whereas our neighbour thomas grantham , late of ashby , in the county of lincoln , and now resident in norwich , hath been defamed by some person for stealing a tup : we do here testify that he is innocent as to what he is charged withal in that case , and that the said thomas grantham did not intentionally nor actually do any unlawful act or deed ; and that in respect of his behaviour amongst us his neighbours , he was always accounted a very honest man , and a good neighbour . witness our hands , george coddington , john robison , thomas atkin , anthony robison . may , . we are here informed that thomas grantham , late of ashby , and now at norwich , is taxed in his life and conversation , and particularly about a tup . these are to satisfy that the said thomas grantham always behaved himself well , and led a very good life and conversation amongst us , and was always esteemed a very honest man. witness ben. smith , edward reed . to the right worshipful the mayor and aldermen of the city of norwich ; the humble petition of thomas grantham , inhabitant in the said city . doth shew ; that whereas many abuses , reproaches , and affronts , have been and are daily offered to my person , name and reputation , insomuch that i cannot pass peaceably in the streets , nor be peaceable in my habitation , nor injoy my self quietly in my service to almighty god , according to the law of the land , by reason of the rudeness of many of the inhabitants of this place , unknown to me by name ; save that from one mr. harman's house in st. martins , at the unicorn , a report is spred abroad , that i did steal a ram in the place where i formerly lived : which forgery i have detected , by the testimony of divers of my neighbours , who have sent certificates of my innocency under their hands concerning that matter , ( copies whereof i have herewith sent to your worships . ) and seeing the rudeness of the people , and their insolency to be so great in promoting that and other slanders , that i go in danger of my life , i thought it my duty to spread my complaint before your worships , and to beseech you to do for me what you lawfully may for my preservation from violence . and your humble petitioner shall pray , &c. norwich may , . this petition was received by the mayor of norwich , who was pleased to say , they were satisfied the report was false , and that he would do me justice . and seeing that satan so violently rages against me , meerly because i endeavour to serve god and this generation in my ministry , with all possible fidelity , i doubt not but after my decease he will by such base ways do what he can to deface my poor ( though sincere ) labours . i do therefore here , in the fear of god , challenge all the world , whilst i am yet alive , to bring a just accusation against me , if they can , in respect of my conversation , from my youth to this day : for though i am a man of infirmities ( as all are ) yet by the grace of god , i have been kept from all these things whereof i have by the tongue of infamy been so unworthily accused . tho. grantham . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * this account is testified under the hands of john hareby ( brother to the said robert hareby ) mr. roger lark , ( son to the said mr. john lark ) tho. atkin , and william bradshaw , anno . who all are yet living ( except john hareby ) . † in lincolnshire they call a ram a tup . note that these gentlemen who have given these testimonies , are all of the church of england , except one ; and they offer the testimony of many more if it be desired . this is an answer to john wiggans book, spread up and down in lancashire, cheshire and wales, who is a baptist & a monarchy-man wherein may be seen how he exalts himself, against christ the light, that doth enlighten every man : and also some of his, and his peoples erronious principles, and assertions, which he and his people held in a dispute, with some quakers ... / from the prisoners at lancaster, whom he then opposed being then a prisoner, thomas curwen, william houlden, henery wood, william vvilson ; also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) this is an answer to john wiggans book, spread up and down in lancashire, cheshire and wales, who is a baptist & a monarchy-man wherein may be seen how he exalts himself, against christ the light, that doth enlighten every man : and also some of his, and his peoples erronious principles, and assertions, which he and his people held in a dispute, with some quakers ... / from the prisoners at lancaster, whom he then opposed being then a prisoner, thomas curwen, william houlden, henery wood, william vvilson ; also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. curwen, thomas. fox, margaret askew fell, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london printed : . errata: p. . error in paging: p. misnumbered . reproduction of original in the bevan-naish collection. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng wigan, john. -- antichrist's strongest hold overturned. society of friends -- apologetic works. inner light. baptists -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion this is an answer to john wiggans book , spread up and down in lancashire , cheshire and wales , who is a baptist & a monarchy-man . wherein may be seen how he exalts himself , against christ the light , that doth enlighten every man. and also some of his , and his peoples erronious principles , and assertions , which he and his people held in a dispute , with some of the quakers . and also an answer to his queries in his book . and also some queries which was propounded to him , which he would never answer to this day , and also some of his assertious , which he could never make good , and likewise an answer to a second challenge , which book we would have all in patience , and meekness read over , with a single eye , wherein you may see the wicked , ( according to scripture ) is grown worse and worse , who with fair words and fained speeches deceives the hearts of the simple ; who are wise discernes these things . from the prisoners at lancaster , whom he then opposed being then a prisoner , thomas curwen , william houlden , henery wood , william vvilson . also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. london , printed in the year , . to the reader . reader , here is something in answer to john wiggan's assertions , and also to his book , which thou art desired patiently to read over , and to read the scriptures which we have quoted , and also his , and also his words , and our answers , for simple peoples sakes was it answered , that they might be no longer deceived , for we were all satisfied before with christ who is the light of the world , the way , the truth , the life , and he is our satisfaction ; never-the-less john wiggan hath taken some of our papers , and private letters writ to him , but left out the occasion , wherefore they were written , and so in this he hath not done honestly , neither as he would have been done by , and as for all his bad letters , he hath writ to us , we shall not set them down all , nor part , for some of them are out of the bounds of christianity . our book is somewhat large , the most of the heads and strength of his book being spoken too particularly , but take it throughout , and i believe , thou will find such a pack of confusion as thou hast not heard , and malicious spitefull words , against god , and christ the light , which may be found in his book , we have not wronged it , but he hath not paged his book , therefore we could not quote it here . and these things which he hath asserted and laid down , he is to make good by scripture , without ading or diminishing , for we will have plain scripture , also an answer to his challenge , for him to make good all his assertions by scripture without ading to it , and also some queries here is for him to answer , and to clear himself if that he can by scripture , which we believe it will not clear him , and so farewell . from them that loves truth and peace to all mankind . for this is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour who will that all men should be saved , and come to the knowlege of the truth , tim. . . and this is contrary to john wiggan , who saith , god denies faith to some men. you might have had an answer sooner , but it was long before we had his book , and when we had it , was fain to take it in pieces , and many perticuler persons were concerned in it , who some of them lives . miles one from another , and the book being called for so hastily again ; he boasted , that we could not answer it , but that was but little to us , for it was truth that we mind . the d . of the th . month , . this is an answer to john vviggans book , &c. wee hearing of a book that john vviggan had given forth against us , in which are many lies and scandals , and he the said john wiggan , directing one of them to randal hunter and thomas hardy deputy-goalers , as he calls them , but he might have said to the head-keeper and under-keeper . and also this book being disperced abroad in the country through him , it was hard for us to get a sight of it ; but at last it was given to us by the under-keeper , and after a while fetched it away , it concerns many friends , some that are . miles of , and some above . yet this john vviggan , nor none of his company , ( who sayes he give it forth to convince us of some of our errors , and also a challenge in it ) were not so civil , as to give us ever a copy of it , or the thing it self , and when that friends asked him for the book , he replyed , if we would pay for writeing it over , we might have a copy of it , who hath not forgot his old priest tricks , to make people to pay him for his lies , and by this all sober people , whose minds stands without partiality , may judge of this mans works , who pretended to convince us of our errors , ( as he sayes ) and gives forth a challenge , and publisheth part of a private letter , and what he pleaseth , and never directs it , nor his book , to the authors , and whom it doth concern . and now whether or no this man , hath not lost the very common civility , and understanding that is amongst men , and boasts of his works , which he kept hid from us , though through great difficulty we have gotten a copy for a little time , wherein all men may judge by this carriage , and practice of his , in boasting of his works abroad , and keeping them from them they do concern , they may see it is the work of darkness , and of error , and one that is afraid of the light , and a great part of his book ( as the reader may read and see ) is against the common salvation to all men contrary to jude ; and to be one that denyes the lord that bought them , as in peter ; and all his force and strength is to the denying of john's doctrine and testimony , and that which he came to be a witness of , the true light which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world , john the first . and also the force of his matter is , to throw away the prophecy of the prophets concerning christ the salvation to the ends of the earth , to mankind , to poor lost man , and also to deny the promise of god to poor creatures , which saith god will give him for a covenant of light to the gentiles , ( speaking of christ ) who shall be his salvation to the ends of the earth , and a new-covenant to the house of israel , and the house of judah ; and this was to all people , both jewes and gentiles , and this light and covenant , is by him denyed ; but to some as he sayes , and so he is one that makes sects amongst the creatures of god , and divides , being in the errour and darkness himself ; being void of the mind of god , his prophets and apostles , and also denying the love of god to the world ; who so loved the world , mark , take notice poor people , that god gave his only begotten son into the world , to save the world , and not to condemn the world , ( as he doth , who saith they have not a light to save them , and they have not the spirit of god ) but that the world through him might be saved ; and moreover christ saith , i am the light of the world , now he doth not say , i am the light of the saints only , ( as john wiggan saith ) but of the world which be in darkness . and christ saith believe in the light , whilest ye have the light , shewing that they have the light before they are believers , that they may be children of the light , john . and also he john wiggan makes void the grace of god ( as may be seen in his book ) which hath appeared to all men , as the apostle speaks to titus , which brings salvation , and this grace is sufficient , and so his work is to prove , that the world and wicked men have not a saving-light , nor have not the spirit of god , contrary to the scriptures of truth , as will be proved hereafter ; and so ●● makes people believe through this , that christ did not come to save the world ; so is of that race that would frustrate the grace of god , and of them that forbid the apostles to speak to the gentiles ; but hath not john wiggan had one hundred pound a year of the states , and taken collections of such as he looked upon to be wicked people , and had not the spirit , nor a saving light ; yea , and preached the scriptures to them , which are the things of god , and all people you know , that no man can know the things of god , without the spirit of god , you know the scriptures saith so . and whether all men will not judge , whether this man is not grown sensless , or he hath cracked his brain through his foolishness : nay , would not this john wiggan preach , if the powers would give him two or three hundred pounds a year , to preach the scriptures , which are the things of god to the world , which he saith hath not the spirit of christ , nor a saving light , hath he not the conscience to take this , and bless them though the world did not understand the things of god , and what do you think of all the independants that he preached too , and hath left , and now turned baptist , it may be he thinks that is a better commons and pasture , to maintain him in ; for hath john wiggan restored that which he had of them at manchester , and other places ? for we say that it is but just , that he should do so . for to preach to a people that hath not a saving light , nor the spirit , the things of god , they that cannot understand them , without the spirit , and to take money of them , is it not a robing of them , and a cheating of them ; and ought he not in justice to make restitution , for we do not know a greater enemy to christ and his apostles , and plain scriptures , this day in england then he is , as his practice hath made it manifest ; and as for all his slanderous expressions in his private papers , we shall not send abroad , but let them lie upon him together with his lyes , nor lay open his nakedness , we need not , for he hath laid it open in his own book sufficiently , as will be manifest to every impartial reader . first , that paper which was sent unto thomas hardy by thomas curwen , it was not sent up and down in the country as his was , but if he had sent for a coppy of it , he might have had one ; so we did not serve him , as he hath done us ; and if there had been any errors , they should have been made manifest , ( but he hath not ) that the reader might have read them , for we are not afraid of our deeds coming to the light. and our paper was neither partial nor confused , as it will manifest it self , and it is to the honour of truth . and it s he that swallowes up the simple in errors , ( as he speaks of , ) and hath vomited out the same again ; how many hath he vomited out about manchester , but swallowed them up but for gain , and that which he hath vindicated is error . and whereas he saith , he was provoked to this debate with the quakers ; that is false , for it was his own challenge ; for friends would have discoursed with him in a christian way , in his own chamber , which he denyed , and bid them depart his chamber ; and when friends have come up in a christian way to him , he hath threatned them by calling for the jaylor ; and another time when thomas curwen came up in a christian way , he shaked him by his coat , as though he would have tore it from off his back , to thrust him out of his chamber , though often he came into our chamber , and we never served him so , but discoursed as long as he would . but this is the thing , major wiggan in calling the jaylor he wanted his magestrates sword , like a persecuting jew , help men of israel against the apostles , for these are the men that turnes the world upside down . and this is john wiggans patience and christian spirit , as he calls it ; and he being a prisoner we would never have brought him to publick shame , but he himself hath brought it , therefore he may blame himself . and whereas he speaks of being provoked , to the debate in defence of truth . nay john , thou art out of love , that art so soon provoked ; and its truth that torments thee , because thou canst not defend thy errors , thou canst not chop and change with truth , as thou didst with the people at manchester . and what thou hast set down afterward will appear . and the contention of the meeting was through thy self , for thou wast the first man that brake the order , ( which was that all might speak one by one ) and burst out into a laughter , ( when others were speeking of the things of god ) in an uncivil and immodest way , which begot thy own people into the same , and so raised up the rude and uncivil spirit in thy own people , that some was fain to rebuke thee , who were speaking of the things of god ; for the things of god are weighty , and ( as the scriptures saith ) the fools heart is filled full of laughter , and that is the mark of a fool ; and thou wast too hot and passionate to talk soberly : and dost thou not remember what a passion thou was in , when thou discoursed with richard hubberthorn at manchester , when one of thy own people did reprove thee ; and doest thou not remember what violent hands thou laid upon john abrams , when he and james harrison came to discourse with thee of the things of god in a christian way , and what a rage , fury and passion thou wast in , is not this a mark of a novice , soon angry , and are not these unclean hands lifted up to god , will god accept them ? and whereas thou speaks of boasting , that is thy own , & the principle that thou would discourse upon was thy own chusing , though nothing thou hast cleared to this day by the scriptures of truth , but manifested thy self further in error ; and as for detecting our persons and carriages thou canst not , but thy own carriage is detected ; and so thou maist take shame that pleads against truth , but god will honour his truth , and them that stands for it , and happy would it be for thee if a place of repentance were found for thee , though thou maist have had many esaus tears proceeded from thee through thy agonies . and the unsavory fruits thou speaks of , is thy own , by which thou deceives the ignorant , and the least that is simple in the truth discernes thee , thy spirit and principle , and are reclaimed from the error of thy way , and that makes thee so rage against them . and as for thy additional accompt thou hast given forth , by discourse concerning the light in every man , and thy interpreting the scriptures , which indeed is perverting the scriptures by thy addition , as will be further manifested and proved . and as for thy saying , if any of them shall yet persist to maintain their error , here you will find an offer further to debate the difference betwixt us before any person in authority . answ . it 's truth we maintain , against thy errors , as we have done to all thy brethren before thee till this day , who are all come to nought , who have made such havock upon us and our goods ; we have maintained it , and shall maintain it with our lives to death , against thy errors before what magestrate thou wilt , as after will be manifest , or when thou wilt , or where thou wilt , for its truth we stand for , and suffer for . and as for the perticulars , that thou wilt suffer for as well as we , and art not in the same principle , bower and spirit , as the saints be in , in that thou suffers but as an evil doer . and whereas thou talkest of a measure of the spirit of god given unto thee , this is but to cover thy lies and errors , and to deceive withal ; for if thou wert in the measure of the spirit of god thy self , thou wouldst not deny it in others ; and so in this thou art an enemy in thy spirit to every thing that we stand for , because thou art not in the spirit . and whereas thou sayest , this is a relation of the occasion & manner of a debate had in the castle at lancaster the . day of the . moneth , ( ●●●monly called march ) . between me john wiggan , and george fox , john stubbs , and many other of the people called quakers , about the light within . answ . the dispute was not george foxes , nor john stubbs , but thomas curwens , and william wilsons , but george fox , and john stubbs , liberty being granted , george fox hearing such gross errors laid down by john wiggan , he spake something to contradict them by scriptures , they being so gross and manifest ; and so this book of wiggans is not only a relation of that , but of many other things of his own addition , and private things sent-abroad by him , and the truth of it all may be seen in the following answer . and what i tho. curwen said to thee as thou passed through the great hall , thou being a deceiver of the people , i bid thee leave of thy deceiving ; as yet thou couldest never clear thy self of being a deceiver , nor hast not done in thy book : and whereas thou sayest , thy answer was mild , to this purpose said thou so , consider well what thou hast said , and whether thou canst make good thy words , and tell me as i come back whom i have deceived , and wherewith i have deceived any , or how thou canst prove me a deceiver ? answ . here thou praises thy self of thy mildness , if another had done it , it had been better for thee ; what was thy mildness to me in thy chamber , when i came to discourse with thee of the things of god , thou laid violent hands upon me , and like to have torn my coat off my back , to haile me out of thy chamber , and this was not christian like ; and whereas thou ( lyer ) bid me tell thee as thou came back that is a lye , and thy voice i knew to be the voice of a stranger , and now thou hast made it manifest who denies christ the light to be saving ; and whereas thou wouldest know whom thou hast deceived , there came a woman from london to thee , to declare against thee , whom thou hast long deceived . and there came a man from stopphed , whom thou had deceived , to cry against thee , and there came james parke to cry against thee and to discourse with thee of thy deceivableness , who saw thy deceit , and turned away from thee , when they came to the light of christ jesus which manifested thee , and saw thee to be a preacher against christ the light ; and all may see herein what is the end of thy preaching , when thy work is to bring people from the heavenly light of christ jesus within them ; and lead them into imaginations and whimsies , and fancies of thy own brain , and many others about manchester which might be instanced , which some of them hath been with thee here , which thou long kept from the light of christ jesus within them , who now praise the lord that they are come from under the bondage , and have found christ their saviour and leader and light which thou denyest . and whereas thou sayest that i was rash , & my censures groundless in saying thou taught the way , and know it not thy self . answ . thou hast manifested thou dost not know the way , for there is but one way to god , who is christ , the light that doth enlighten everyman , who doth enlighten the gentiles , & is the glory of israel , and the salvation to the ends of the earth ; and christ saith , i am the light , and i am the way to the father , and no man comes to the father but by me . and this light in every man thou denies to be saving , which we say it is saving or condemning ; to them that love it , it 's saving , and to them that hate it , it 's condemning : and so it 's manifest that thou art a confesser of him , and a teacher of him in words as other sects are ; and the devil could preach christ in words without him , ( and said thou art the son of god ) as thou dost who denies him to be a light in all men savingly , and so doth all the sects in christendom that preaches christ in words for an end , and their gain , as thou did at manchester at thy chapels , and preached up thy independant way ; and thou left the people in delusion ; didst thou know christ then , though thou preacht him in words , and so doth all these before mentioned know christ the way , and such as held forth the doctrine of devils ; commanding to abstain from meats , and forbiding to marry , who went about to deceive ( the christians and people of christ the way , ) in words for some end , but not in truth ; and antichrists are not they , such as pretend to preach christ in words , and yet knows him not , who is a mystery . answer me plainly , didst thou ever hear christs voice at any time , or hast thou seen his shape ? for if thou hadst known him the way , thou would not have deny'd his light to be saving to the world. and hast thou not read collos . of some that intruded into these things they never saw , which neglected christ the body and head , who is the way and light , &c. and whereas thou sayes it is not possible to teach the way , and know it not , mat. . , . , . . the pharisees and the priests preached christ to come to herod ; and told when he should be born , by the scriptures , and yet knew him not to be the way when he came , but persecuted him when he came , as thou may know by the scriptures when christ rose , and yet thou knowest him not to be the way , the truth and the life , but denies him to be the saving light spoken of in joh. . and my words was not harsh nor rash censure , but in plainness and truth , as thou hast made it appear . and as for me william wilson , i know nothing else thou livest in but beggarly rudiments , who denies christ to be a saving light , who enlightens every man ; who shuts up the gates of heaven against men , and will neither go in thy self , nor suffer others to go in . and shew me by plain scripture where christ calls taking of bread and wine an ordinance ? for we do drink of the vine , and and eat of the bread that comes down from heaven : and my words were neither harsh nor rash , therefore thou dost us wrong to say so , and to blame us , and exclaime against us these queries as followeth were sent to john wiggan to answer by me thomas curwen , and are unanswered to this day ; and he complaines he wanted time , and hath had them above halfe a year , when such a man as he is looked upon , might have answered them in halfe a day . query . whether thy way never fell ? where be all the daubers ? whether all the ministers of adam's house in the fall , daubed not with untempered morter ? whether a man while he is upon the earth , shall be made free from the body of death and sin while he is on this side the grave ? . and whether christ doth not enlighten every one that comes into the world with a saving light ? . whether is bread and wine christ the substance , yea , or nay ? . and how long hast thou taken bread and wine in remembrance of christs death till he come ? . and whether or no when he is come thou will take it in remembrance of him . and which is the nearest , to take a thing in remembrance of his death , or to come into his death ? and whether or no thou thinkest to come any nearer to christs death , then taking bread and wine in remembrance of him ? and whether or no doth thou think to come any nearer to christs death then to take bread & wine in remembrance of his death , and so keep alive in the old nature ; and is not this the deceiver ? hast thou known the death , the pangs , and the sorrow , and art thou become a fool for christs sake , and is the wisdom of the world become foolishness to thee , and in what place boundest thou thy own ? and how comest thou to receive that which is foolishness to the world , and how was thou awakened out of sleep , and when did the grave open , and when did the prisoner shew himself forth ? and when did the tongue of the dumb sing ? and when was the tongue of the first birth silent ? and when was thou come to thy wits end ? and how hast thou watered thy couch ? and what is the tongue of the learned ? and what is the gray hairs ? and what is it that anti-christ and the false prophets ravened from , and where was it ? and when did the keepers of the house tremble , and the strong man bow himself ? . and hast thou the same power and spirit to baptize , and give bread and wine as the apostles had , and hast thou heard the voice of christ as they did ? and seeing thou took offence at me for calling thee a deceiver ; what is the true way , & where is it , & whether all mankind be enlightened by it , and whether it be within man , or without ? and whether or no thou hast seen it , or hear it , or heard the voice of god at any time , or seen his shape ? answer these queries in a scripture way in writing , and bring forth thy deeds to the light , or else i do intend to stick a coppy of them on thy door tomorrow . from thy friend thomas curwen the fifth day of the first moneth . directed for john wiggan these . and these queries were sent to john wiggan to be answered by him ; and because i said if he would not answer them i would stick them on the door tomorrow , he sayes he has but a short time and yet in this half year he hath not answered them , but he hath published them in his book to his shame , without an answer , manifesting his insufficiency to resolve doubts and questions in weighty matters to shuffle them off to the reader ; he calls them frivilous , and they stand still unanswered by him , for if he had told us that he had been uncapable or unable of answering them , we would so have taken it ; but he being a man so much looked upon , and professing such high things he was able to resolve doubts and questions , which if he had been a man as he is looked upon , he would have been ashamed to have published them to the reader unanswered ; and we did not boastingly send the queries to thee , nor sought advantage against thee , but that the plain truth might have been manifested by thee if thou hadst had it , but its manifest to the contrary ; and the queries are pythy and full , and some of them queries about mans salvation ; but thou scornes and scoffes at them , and calls them frivilous , and sayest thou had some weighty matter which we do not know any thou hadst , without it was to study something against the saving light , to preach to thy people , which was not a thing of so great weight , who runs one while to thee , and another while to other priests , who are unestablisht like thy self . and in thy letter to my first paper thou seems to be offended , because that i said that thou was offended for calling thee a deceiver of the people , &c. it manifests thou art offended by thy speaking of it so much abroad . and as concerning my saying thou taught the way to others , and knew it not thy self , that is answered before , and i did speak forth the words of truth and soberness to thee , as being often burthened with hearing thy strange voice , & savouring thee to be out of the spirit that gave forth the scriptures . and for making it appear whom thou hast deceived that i have done before , and whom thou hast deceived , and how , in drawing them from the pure light of christ , which is saving , which enlightens every man ; and for thy saying there will be but little truth found in saying thou taught thy way to others , and it will be hard for me to prove or any of my friends , thou hast proved it thy self , and i have proved it sufficiently here before , and also it was proved in the dispute , but that thou art more minded to cavil then obey the truth , and it s no matter of thee saying my words are improper , when thou wilt not believe plain scripture , when as thou bids me tell thee where the apostle said some preached the way , the truth , and the life , and yet knew him not , such as professed him in words , and denyed him in life , such as the apostle calls evil doers , evil beasts , and slow bellies , and teaches for filthy lukre , as thou hast done who is a sayer and not a doer , and such as preacht christ of envy as thou dost , and added afflictions to the apostles bonds , those knew not christ the way and the life , neither was in it , for they were in the envy and strife , as thou art ; and those are unlike to know him ( though they may preach him in words , for envy blinded them as it hath done thee , philip. . . but did not those false apostles , deceitfull workers transforming themselves into the apostles of christ , preach christ in words as thou doest ; how could they have gone about to deceive the saints which believed in christ , and were they not despisers of the apostles and ministers of christ as thou art ; nay , did they not boast that they were ministers of christ , as thou doest , and denyed his life as thou doest , corinth . . from the . to the . and did not christ speak of such who preached in his name , and in his name cast out devils , and i do not believe that ever thou came to see so far as these did ; and yet he said depart from me ye workers of iniquity , and the false prophets in the . of matthew , who said loe here is christ , and loe there , these was preachers of christ in words , under a pretence to bring them to a false christ , and christ said go not forth after them , for he would come and dwell in them , and this thou cannot abide to hear spoken on , of christ being in men a saving light , and dost thou not know that many has a form of godliness , tit. . . and what form is that , is it not the scriptures that speaks of god and christ , and denies the power , wherein i feel thee to be one , who are to be turned away from , who withstand the truth , and many of thy hearers turned away from thee , whom thou led away captive : and what wise man cansay i have wronged the apostles words in this , for i have not wronged the apostles words , but thou wrongest me , and thou dost not preach the love of christ , who denies the light , christ , to be saving that enlightens all men , and christ is the way , the truth , and the life , who ever preach him , or for what ever end they preach him for , and we set up the christ jesus the apostles preached , and set up , the light of the world which the prophets prophesied of , but thou preachest another as was said before , who denies his light to be a saving light in all men ; though some men neglect their salvation , as thou may read in the scriptures , and we have the same gospel the apostles had , and preached ( to wit ) the power of god which i do believe thou was never yet in , for if thou had thou would not have changed so , and have left thy people for what hast thou left that christ thou preached to the independants , or hast thou restored the money which thou got amongst them , so confess the truth ? for i never changed since i knew the truth , the same christ the apostles preacht ; and the true religion i believe thou hath to seek it , who denies the light , and so in meekness and fear i declare to thee , we own no other christ jesus , then the apostles preacht , and set up , and this christ jesus i am not ashamed to confess before all , who is the light that enlightens all men that comes into the world , who is the salvation to the ends of the earth , who tasted death for every man and this is gods love to mankind . and whereas thou sayest , thou will not answer my queries , nor satisfie me , nor any querist ; in this thou hast manifested thy self and spirit what it is ; and hast denyed a christian spirit , who should be ready to give an answet to any that asked them a reason of the hope that was in them , and my questions tends to edification and not to strife , and confessing the working of god in their hearts and what they past thorow , and the acquaintance with god , hearing and seeing of him and things concerning salvation , and scripture words that declares of the same ; and this is not edification to thee , and yet thou contradicts thy self , and sayest thou would give a reason of the hope that is in thee , and yet doth not answer my queries concerning-christ the hope , and other workings of the spirit of god : truly john this manifests thy emptyness and shallowness of the things of god and that which concernes mans salvation . and thou sayest thou hast in readiness to answer in love ; those queries was in love sent to thee , but this is but a shift and a boast ; for if thou hadst not answered them in love to us , who thou accounts thy enemies , though thou hast called us thy friends , thou might have answered them for their sakes thou sent thy book too , if thou hadst no love to enemies . john wiggan thou sayest that the light wherewith every man is lighted that comes into the world , is not a saving light ; and this thou say'st thou shalt thorough the strength of christ be ready to maintain against me , or any of my friends who hold the contrary , when and where a meeting may be had in a peaceable and quiet way before competent witnesses . answ . thee and all thy witnesses at the meeting by all your opposing the scriptures and us , that stood for them ; could not make good that christ was not the saving light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , though yee broke out into a rage and broke your own order , ( which was ) that none should speak while another was speaking , and thou was the first man that brake it , both when g. f. and w. w. was speaking , and neither love or humility proceeded from thee but abundance of pride , rage and envy , when thou was plung'd and could not make good what thou hadst asserted , which was contrary to christ and the prophets , as in esaiah and john the . , . and that which moved me to stick the paper on the door proceeded from the holy spirit ; which hath caused thee to vent forth so much against the light of christ , and hath brought that forth which hath been so long hid in thy heart under a feigned humility , and now is brought to light , ( praises to the lord god for ever ; ) for thy disputing is against christ the light , &c. to be saving ; so thou art not like to be a true preacher of christ . and thomas curwens second paper , wherein he shewes john wiggan he has not answered his queries , and how that he would come into his chamber to discourse about one query , which john wiggan had chosen out , that query which speaks of christ being the saving light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , and this christian way of discourse john wiggan denyed , though before he had spoken of a meeting betwixt him and our friends , when and where a meeting might be had in a quiet way ; and when we came into his chamber ( he having put it to us before when and where , which we looked upon his own chamber to be the best and civil'st ) he contradicts his own words , and again challenges us down into the shire-hall ; and thou disputing about this query , did not satisfie me , concerning all the other i stuck the paper on the door according to my word , which thou hast neither answered in writing nor word to this day , and my word is made good to thee or any rational man. concerning such as get the form of godliness , and preaches him , and knowes him not , and thou geting the apostles words , and out of their life and power , thou art he that wrongest the apostles ; and whereas thou sayest the apostles useth no such words ; that is cleared before . and my second paper which was brought to thee was not with that purpose to disturb thee , but that thou might have seen thy self , if thou would not have shut thine eyes , and here i clear things over again to thee , if thou wilt not hide thy self from the light thou may see , and that i neither wrong the apostles nor thee , but am one with the apostles against such as thou art . and whereas thou faith thou art not inclined to multiply words to occasion strife , and yet thou contradicts thy self , and multiplys many words to no purpose against the saving light of christ , and which is saving , who said he would give for a covenant of light , and is the peace between god and man ; and that which thou multiplys is against him , which occasions nothing but strife and confusion , and not peace , for the peace is in christ , the light which thou canst not abide to hear on , that every man has a saving light ; because it marrs thy trade , and thy great diana would be taken away ( to wit ) thy gain ; for preaching christ the light , mar'd the great diana and all the workmens gain , as thou may read in the acts : and thou said thou would meet us in a spirit of love and meekness , but it proved otherwise , when thou appeared at the dispute . and whereas thou sayest in thy answer to thomas second letter , that thou wouldest treat with thomas about the light , and any other point , and saith i was over confident in saying i was mistaken , if thou thinkest i should leave it to thee to appoint time and place , and had left it to me before , both when and where , as may be seen in thy letter , and here is thy contradiction ; and when i had appointed the meeting when and where according to thy own challenge , when now thou say'st after thou had left it to me , when and where ; and we appointed thy own chamber , then thou deny'st us coming there except thou hadst invited us , thou camest often into our chamber without inviting , and thou denyed us for appointing the place , and said we were over confident , and so forsook thy own proposition , and appointed another place ; and so this is no honour for to publish abroad such things : and this is thy seeking after truth , which was but a pretence , and not in reality , and friends did meet with thee , and did discourse with thee , and when the day came thou stood not to that neither , but found some excuse , and when thou didst come , friends spoke to thee concerning thy own words and promises , and how thou didst not stand to thy words , promises and time , in thy challenge , but shuffled and altered , and as thou sayest falsly that thee was challenged by us first , that is false , for the queries was sent to thee to answer in writing , or else we would stick them on the door , and thou vapoured and challenged , and left it to us , and then denyed it again , said this day and the other day , and brake thy own word and promise , which caused many to come out of the country to see thy own folly , and thou was the occasion of the dispute , for we would have discoursed with thee in a christian way , which thou denyedst it in thy chamber , which we would have granted thee to have come into ours , if thou hadst desired it ; and all thy dayes work was to stand in opposition against truth , christ the light that enlightens every man ; and instead of bringing people to the light thou turns them to darkness from the light : and whereas thou say'st because i did not set thy letter by mine upon the door , therefore i savour of a fleshly spirit in divers circumstances . that which thou has particularized i answer , for not setting it upon the door , because it was not an answer to my queries , therefore thou savours more of a fleshly spirit , who did not answer them , nor convinc'd me wherein i had done wrong . and whereas thou sayest , thomas curwen and william wilson when we came to conferr with thee about the meeting according to thy former challenge , which thou villifies us , and sayes we came to provoke thee , and with many heavy censures , as john cowert can witness ; now ye people of lancaster may see what a sufficient witness he hath brought to be a witness for him , who is a common drunkard ; this you may judge what spirit his book came from , for thou at that time in thy chamber didst lay down for doctrine and principles , that the scriptures was the author of thy faith ; who art ignorant of the scriptures , and of the ministers who taught the christians that christ jesus was the author and finisher of their faith , and as for hard or heavy censures we deny them , for we speak the truth in plainness , and thou wouldst not meet according to thy own challenge , but puting us off from time to time , that was the occasion of our coming unto thee , to thy chamber ; but thou should have set down thy own carriage and behaviour in envy and malice towards us in thy chamber , who sweld , and puft , and bid us go out of thy chamber , why did we come there , after thou had challenged us , for we came to thee about thy challenge , and the meeting , and thou in a fury cryed get you out , get you out of my chamber , what do you do here ? as though we could not be admitted into thy presence thou was so high , and scornful , and for thy saying thou was forced to intreat us to go out of thy chamber , thou was past intreating , thou had like to have laid violent hands upon me , as thou didst afterwards ; and if thou hadst not given us a meeting being thine own challenge , how could we judge otherwise , but that-thou dar'st not stand to thy word , & it 's a lye in saying we provoked thee to it , it was thy own challenge , and then thou speaking with r. c. and r. j. about the meeting , and appointed when the day and hour should be , and that thou was willing to give thomas curwen and others a meeting according to thy former challenge and thou would dispute about christ the light , that enlightens every man that comes into the world , by the lords assistance ; but this lord failed thee , for poor old henry wood a labouring man that cannot read a word on a book , gravelled thee so , that thou was not able to answer him ; and as for r. c. and r. j. what language dost thou give them now , who accounted them sober men before ; thy mind is soon altered and changed ; john wiggan disprove that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , or that the light where with every man is enlightened is not saving ; mark people , the light in it self is not saving , and then the insufficiency is in the light according to his judgment ; but we say there is sufficiency in the light , for god saith my grace is sufficient , which none can deny but that the grace is this light ; and secondly that christ the light which doth enlighten all , &c. that , that is not saving is contrary to the scriptures , which saith christ is the salvation to the ends of the earth ; christ saith i am the light , john . . . and this light christ is sufficient to save and to give the knowledge of god , cor. . . but as christ saith in john . . some hates the light , and as job saith , some rebell against it , in whose steps john wiggan thou art found . and whereas thou sayest first , that nothing be asserted but what may be proved by scripture , and that nothing be determined but according to the scriptures ; & in thy answer thou could make nothing good that thou didst assert against the light of christ which thou opposes ; for that which thou didst assert was against the plain scripture and the words of christ in which thou confutes thy self , whose determination if it had been possible was to oppose the scripture , instead of asserting by scripture , what thou did'st assert . secondly , whereas thou sayest , that the meeting may be peaceable and quiet , without railing or reproachful speeches , and that the whole dehate may be carried on with a spirit love and meekness . answ . john thou and thy people quickly broke this order , dost thou not remember what a heat and passion thou was in , cocking up thy hat like a ranter , and thy people of such a heat , that john berley was fain to stand up and reprove one of them , and g. f. often bid you be sober , for the things of god was weighty , and should be spoken of in the fear of god , and that he should not be so rash and hasty . thirdly , the meeting may be orderly and without confusion , that is that one may have as much time allowed to speak as another , and that but one speak at once , and that none disturbe him that is speaking . answ . i wonder john wiggan that thou shouldest not be ashamed to publish such things in the sight of men ! for thou was the first man that made a disturbance , that spake when another was speaking , ( to wit ) william wilson , and afterwards when george fox was speaking , and afterwards thy people ran into the same , and so broke your own order , and run into confusion , and when thou should have answered to the people to the matter , thou fell a preaching to the people , and when i thomas curwen would have stood up and have spoken , thou would not let me ; so that i see thou art nothing but a man of fair words , so thou didst not give time but thou brakest the time , and therefore was we forced to cry for order so oft' amongst you . ly . and whereas thou sayest , that the meeting may continue three houres , and at the most not exceed four , because of the occasions of friends afterwards , if these be concented unto , let him that is appointed to treat with me , subscribe his name , &c. and what we could not agreed to r. c. r. j. let him know . answ . most of this was done according to his desire , and let him take what time he would to oppose christ the light which lightens every man that comes into the world , and though he had his will granted , all he did was to no purpose . and all people may see whether this was a rational letter or no , and how that we would not limit the truth to an hour , ( as he did before ) for the spirit of truth is not to be limited , though that we let him take his own proffer , and go away when he would , and thou should not have spoken of points wherein this paper differed from thine , but thou should have perticularized them , that the reader might have seen them and whereas thou saidst , we said that thou durst not meet us , therefore thou sentest another paper ; why if thou had said thou would not have met us , thou might have said so , for it was thy own challenge at first , and not ours , and thou should have named them that said so , for no man put thee upon it at first to speak against the light of christ , but thy own mind , and thou sayest in thy next letter , about the third hour , in the fore-part of the day , which i call the ninth hour ; and jo. wiggan , was it but three houres since it was day to the ninth hour , i pray thee answer me these natural things , for thou hast not answered me the spiritual . and so , afterwards when thou hadst denyed thy first proposition to us , that we should appoint time and place , we left it to thee to appoint time and place , and so took thy own , who had contradicted thy former , who would not grant to us that which we granted to thee ; and whereas thou sayest , my friend , and i urged thee to dispute against the light of christ , thou say'st not true , for it was thy own challenge , for we but bid thee make good thy challenge , and that which thou had so boldly asserted against christ the light. and as for thy saying , thou would maintain in the strength of the lord thy assertion ( to wit ) that christ did not enlighten every man that comes into the world , with a saving light , neither that the light wherewith all men is enlightened , is saving ; and this neither thee nor all thy people , with all the strength you had could do , but that which thou did maintain , was to your own shame . and whereas thou sayest thou would do it through the strength of the lord , that was false , for all thy strength was to fight against the lord , who is the saviour of all men , especially of them that believe ; so saith ahe apostle . . and whereas thou say'st over and over again , that all things should be proved by the scripture ; and thou proves nothing to the matter . . and whereas thou say'st again and again , that the meeting may be peaceable and quiet ; and thou was the first man that disturbed it . and whereas thou say'st , the words were left out as railing and reproachful speeches ; ( we thought thou would call the plain truth rayling ) and thou hoping that the thing would be so carried on ; it was so on our part , but thou and thy people brake out into disorder , and scornful speeches , that thou was often reproved for thy immodesty ; and as i said before thou was the first man that was disorderly as thou speaks on over again ; as also thou was the first man that very uncivilly brake the order of one speaking at once , neither didst thou observe it ; and as for limiting time and hour , that is answered before , and seeing the meeting was put off with a pretence by the jaylor as thou sayest , we met with thee another day according to thy appointment , and we know thou didst make an oration before the meeting , and then propounded that which thou could not maintain , that christ doth not enlighten every man with a saving light , that comes into the world , &c. and i john stubbs stood up and told thee , that christ did enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; and richard cubban did not alter what thou had spoken and written , as the reader may see in thy book ; and why dost thou say that i richard cubban was perswaded with much ado , for when thou would not stand to what thou had written and spoken , then i stood to what thou would agree to , and this was but a shift from thy own words , we lookt thou should have made every word good , thou had writen and spoken , but thou shifts from thy own words , and therefore we let thee have what words thou would stand to . and whereas thou sayest , i ( john wiggan ) proceeded to prove , premising first that the question was not , whethere there be some light that comes into the world , nor whether christ do not enlighten true believers with a saving light , forasmuch as i denyed not but did affirme there was some light in every man that comes into the world , and true believers was enlightened with a saving light. answ . in thy assertion there was no mention of unbelievers as all may see in thy book , but thy assertion is , christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; then believers are not according to thy words , for thou sayest , the light wherewith every man is enlightened withal ( which we say is the light of christ ) is not saving ; and yet again thou contradicts thy self , and saith believers are lightened with a saving light ; but and if believers be enlightened with a saving light , and unbelievers be not , how are they then condemned for their unbeliefe ; this question neither thee nor thy people could answer . for thy proof that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , thou sayest , that christ doth not enlighten no man but by his spirit ; but christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world , therefore he doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light. these words proves nothing at all but thy own ignorance of the scriptures ; for god saith by his prophet , that he would pour out his spirit upon all flesh in the latter dayes : and the apostles saw those dayes come in their time , as in acts . and so this being proved that god pours out his spirit upon all flesh , then he enlightens every man that comes into the world with a saving light according to thy own assertion ; and so this overthrows thy opposing assertion ; and the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , cor. . . now thou contradicts the apostle here , the true minister he saith every man , but thou gives him the lie , and saith , not every man , god gives his spirit unto ; but we say with the apostles and the prophets that god hath given his spirit to all , as in joel . acts . . cor. . and they that do not profit in the spirit , are such as grieves it and quenches it , and rebells against it ; as in nehem. . and many other scriptures which might be mentioned : and as for the many scriptures thou hast quoted they are to no purpose . and thou sayest , that thy first proposition is clear , from isai . . . this contradicts thy proposition , this speaks of the new covenant christ ; and in the . chap. ver . . and the . . how that the gentiles that wicked people should come to the light , speaking of christ ; and this quite makes against thee ; that saith christ , doth not enlighten every man with a saving light ; and john . , . but thou shouldst have read the . of john as well as that , where thou may read they have the same comforter , the spirit of truth , which leads the saints into all truth ; and how can thou or the world receive this spirit , which will not believe in the light but hates it ? so this proves that all men have the spirit , and overthrowes thy assertion , and christ the corner-stone breaks thee to pieces , who opposes him and the plain scripture , which all people may read ; and leaves out that which makes against thee , and ephes . . , . because the saints had the spirit of wisdom , and the eyes of their understandings was enlightened ; this thou brings to oppose christ the light , and the apostles doctrine and testimony , that christ did not enlighten every man that comes into the world , and his light is not saving ; which thou might as well deny christ and say he is not saving , who is the light ; for none of these scriptures doth say that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; and john . . makes nothing for thy purpose ; and whereas thou sayest , neither is there any other way by which christ doth infuse a saving light into any man but by his spirit , cor. . , , and . vers . answ . i pray you all people read this scripture over , and see whether there be any such word as infusing a saving light into any man , but by his spirit ; you may see how he wrongs the apostles words , with his own words , and wrongs john's words also ; for we know that the natural man knows not the things of god , but by the spirit they are understood ; for the natural man quenches and grieves the spirit of god , and so walks despitefully against the spirit of grace , therefore this is no proof that he hath it not , because he cannot discern the things of god , for the things of god are opened to him as he obeyes the spirit of god. and thou saith , the assumtion is proved by jude , that some are natural , not having the spirit : this of jude proves that they had it , and went in the error of ballaam from the spirit ; and these could speak the high words , but it was in hypocrisie ; and so this scripture clearly overthrowes thy argument , which thou takes for a proof against john's doctrine , who saith , christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and john the . . which thou brings to prove that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; which saith no such thing , but proves thy own weakness and ignorance ; for how should the world know christ , or see him ; when they hate his light that comes from him , and will not come to it because it doth reprove them , and there christ the light testifies against the world , because their deeds be evil ; read john the third , and other places . again , thou bringest romans the . . to prove thy assertion , and sayes , some men have not the spirit of christ : now people , see if this scripture doth say in plain words that some men have not the spirit of christ , and see how he has wronged the apostle , and perverted his words ; and whether the apostle did not tell them ( in the first of the romans ) who were wicked people , that , that which might be known of god was manifested in them : yet they reprobated from it , and so their hearts were darkened , and so was not led by the spirit as the saints was , and so they that quench the spirit , and will not have it to lead them , how are they christs ? and so mark , the same chapter in the following words , they that are led by the spirit of god they are the sons of god. and so thou may see how thou goes about to overthrow the apostles words and christs doctrine ; thou hath a strange doctrine and preaching of thine , to preach to the world , and tell them they have not the spirit , nor a saving light. and so all thy testimonies thou hast brought doth not prove thy proposition to be true , that christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world , which the . of john overthrowes thee . and i disliking thy assumption , ( as thou callest it , but many ignorant people doth not know what thou meanest , but thou would cover thy self by thy dark words ; ) for no proof that thou brought was to purpose ; for that of jude which speaks of such as went in the way of cain ; i say cain had talked with god , and heard his voice though he was a wicked man ; and this thou brings to prove , that wicked men have not the spirit , and doth not know the things of god , but cain knew god , for he talked with him , and that must be by the spirit ; and those that jude speaks of were such as had been with them , and went from them into the way of cain ; or how could it have been said they had err'd , and had not the spirit and the way . and here people may see thou neither knows the scriptures , nor the power of god , as wise as thou thinks thou art , for my words were not , that they lost it , but that they err'd from it , according to the scripture ; and why could thou not put in all my words i spoke , but perus'd my words , and so left out that which pinched thee ; for i have borne my testimony amongst many of your people , both in england , scotland , and ireland , and other places , which many is come from you , and sees your deceitful wayes of darkeness opposing the light ; for i my self was one of you , and now walkes in the light of the lamb , glory for ever to the highest ; and why doth thou wrong me , for i denyed thy proposition , and held forth christ the saving light. and whereas thou sayest by the way , if a scripture pinch us , we will not stick to give a meaning to it , and such an one as may best suite our purpose . answ . this is false , for i gave no meanings to the scriptures but as they are , and there is no scripture that thou brought which pinched any of us , but they nipt and pinched thee as thou callest it : and thou say'st , thou replyed , that it could not be that those in jude ever had the spirit , because they were sensual and natural , and went in cains way : and here all may see , thou left out the word how they went in the way of cain , and error of ballaam ; and cain talked with god , and that must be by the spirit , as i said before ; and god said , should he not be accepted if he did well , &c. therefore cain had the spirit of god ; and they that went in his way from the christians err'd from the spirit , the righteous way , and so became natural , and sensual , in the self seperation from the spirit where thou art ; and that in the second of corinthi . is answered before ; and now people see if jude and the first of cor. . c. doth say that natural and sensual men had never the spirit , and you may see how this man perverts the scriptures and wrongs them for his own ends ; for these scriptures speaks no such things as he doth ; and how can the natural man discern the things of the spirit of god when that he grieves the spirit of god , by which he should receive them , and errs from it , as in jude , and is not led by it , cor. . and rom. . and they that quench the spirit of god in themselves , will oppose it in others , as thou dost ; and those that are led by the spirit of god , they are they that discern spiritual thing and they that quench it doth not ; and thou repeats the . of cor. . to no purpose for thee , and they cannot decern the things of god that quenches the spirit , and errs from it , but they can decern the things of god that are led by the spirit of god , as in the cor. . and this doth not say , he hath not the spirit of god , thou wrongs the scriptures in that , and adds to the apostles words , for all people may see that reads thy words and the scriptures , what a pittiful meaning thou gives to the scriptures here , and speaks thy own words , and would make people believe they are the apostles words , and so wrongs and belies the apostles . and as for thy charging us with disorder as i said before , thou was the first man that was disorderly , and thou spake when another was speaking , and thy people many of them spake together ; and why dost thou complain and say some of us spake , one after another , for this was the agreement that one should speak after another ; and that thou could not have time to answer , and thou had more time then any , but it s thou that did not speak to the matter in hand , but fell to preaching to the people ; and thou wrongest us , for we spoke orderly one after another , except we spoke when you were speaking disorderly , and of your speaking unreverently of the things of god , and our asking the questions was to have thee make good the thing in hand , which thou could not do ; and this is thy shift , to say , thou was obstructed ; but tell me who obstructed thee , for not answering t. c. and old h. w. their queries this half years time , but thou would have had all the talk to have held what errors thou would , and none to oppose thee ; and it seems m. f. and g. f. the truth that they spoke there tormented thee ; and where thou say'st g. f. coming in about that time thou was replying to j. s. this is false , for thou was speaking to m. f. and held the debate ( a good while after g. f. came in ) with her , and then g. f. ( many people standing upon the formes ) upon which he stood up upon , and set one foot upon the edge of the table , for thou was gotten to the uppermost end of the table , in the highest place , priest like , and what a great advantage hast thou taken here , because g. f. stood up upon the forme , did not thou and the other priest stand upon the table before george fox , and was so unruly not to be gotten off the table , and thy own people stood upon the formes scoffing and revileing , and because that g. f. stood but the one foot upon the forme , and the other upon the table leaning upon his knee ; this thou could publish in thy book as a great transgression . and whereas thou sayest thou was standing ; that is false , for thou was siting ; and when g. f. spoke to thee thou cockt up thy hat , more like a ranter , and a player in a tavern , then one imployed in the service of god , and g. f. reproved thee , and told thee the things of god was weighty , and that thou must not be leght ; and all the serious people beheld thy vanity and weakness , and perverting the scriptures . and whereas thou sayest , where thou and others were standing on the ground ; that is false too , for many of you were siting , we did not see you so reverend , though some its true were standing , and stood there where thou should not have stood , and g. f. did take off the strength of the scriptures alledged by thee , and made it to appear contrary to that end thou brought it , and made it to appear that thou confounded thy own assertion , and did prove that every one that came into the world had the spirit of christ according to their measure ; and thou falsly belies g. f. for he neither used undervaluing , or taunting expressions , and i believe that none will say so but thy self , except it be some scoffers , or scorners like thy self ; and g. f. needed not undervalue thee , for thou under valued thy self in speaking against truth , and against the plain scriptures of truth . and as for g. f. as thou saidst , went several times from the table and said , the least babe there , was able to answer thee , the dispute being not his ; liberty being granted , upon which occasion he spoke something to thee , who spoke that thou couldst not make good by the scriptures , as after will be manifest ; and it did appear there that one of the least babes in the truth thou could not answer , ( to wit ) h. w. and f's . presence who is in the truth , was not so needful , whom thou scoffingly termes their leader , or rather their misleader ; but the weakest amongst us saw , and doth see thee that thou was , art , and hath been a misleader to many of our friends , who now see thee , who has christ now to be their leader , praises to the lord god for ever ; and g. f. did not miserably wrest nor abuse the scriptures as thou say'st , but spoke them as they were , but thou makes no conscience of lying , who sayes he miserably wrested them , but that which he spoke was in defence of the truth , against thy error ; and he would have the people to understand the scripture thou brought to oppose thy self , and the meeting was to that end that truth might be manifest to them , for we were satisfied before , and we are very well acquainted with these scriptures that thou brought to pervert the truth ; and thou was seen long ago for what end thy preaching was . and whereas thou say'st , that which g. f. spake was not to the purpose then the scripture thou brought was not to the purpose , and herein thou hast confuted thy self , for that which he spoke was to the scriptures thou brought to oppose the truth ; but it seems thou art offended because g. f. spoke to the people , and opened the thing to them , which makes thee complain , manifesting that thou would keep and lead them in blindness and darkness , that thou might make a prey upon them still . and the thing that thou laid down before the people was , that some men that comes into the world hath not the spirit ; and thou would prove it out of jude ; and when the scripture was read , there was no such words , and yet he affirmed the same thing , though he could not prove it , perverting many scriptures , and yet could not make any to suite his purpose , and when g. f. let him see the same , he broke out into a rage , and fury , and spoke when he was speaking , and so brake the civil order of speaking one by one ; and whereas he saith , that in the corinthians the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , was spoken to the saints , or church of god at corinth , and not to the wicked . the apostle doth not say it was to the saints only , but to every man , and christ saith , what i say unto you , i say unto all men , watch and pray , and how can they pray without the spirit ? and people , you know it was the false prophets that limited the holy one ; and if the corinthians , every one , had a manifestation of the spirit , here is an [ if ] it seems thou questions this , whether they had or no ; and say'st thou , every man that cometh into the world hath not a manifestation of the spirit , as before it s proved out of acts . and john . and the apostles words was every man , and not every saint ; dost thou not pervert the apostles words here , and also them that were baptised by one spirit , into one body ; which were saints ; and this thou brings to prove , that the world that quenches , and grieveth , and rebelleth against , and errs from the spirit of god , hath it not to reprove them ; which any that reads , but scriptures may see thy ignorance and darkness ; and whereas thou gain-sayest , that the apostle speaks only that the manifestation of the spirit of every man that was baptized by one spirit , into one body ; and made to drink into one spirit and not to every man that comes into the world . now people look this chapter thorow , corinthians . whether ye do find these words of wiggan's in it or no , that it is onely to them that believe and are baptized , and whether the apostle has these limits , as he hath , and whether his words be onely to them that are baptized , and made to drink into the one spirit , and doth the apostle say to every saint , and every one that is baptized into the spirit , and not to every man that comes into the world , doth the apostle say these words , but are not his words every man , and not every saint ? and for the same words used in the . of corinthians , makes nothing for thy purpose , that all men have not the spirit , for that is spoken to them that came together into one place , there the apostle distinguishes his own words ; what shifts art thou put too for to pervert the truth . and whereas thou sayest , this is said to every man of them and not every man that comes into the world ; and now people see whether the apostle saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every one of you only , and see how he contradicts himself with the scriptures he brings , and would pervert it ; for the apostle saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man ; and not to every one of you , cor. . . and it s given to them to profit withal , whether they do or not , and gods spirit is poured upon all flesh , and so this scripture makes nothing for thy purpose . and as for exodus . . this doth not oppose gods pouring out of his spirit upon all flesh acts . and nehem. . was brought , how that god gave his good spirit to such as rebelled against him ; which thou affirmed that wicked men had not the spirit of god ; and we know that the jewes was called the church and people of god , though many of them fell , for their wickedness ; but these that rebelled against it , had it , that were wicked people , which thou denyed , and said , that no wicked people had the spirit of god , which after thou confessed , and so hast overthrown thy assertion ; and so thou saith and unsaith . secondly , thou saith , though it be said he gave them his good spirit , it will not follow that every particular or individual israelite had this good spirit , but such as were israelites indeed . ans . thou hast confessed that the righteous hath the spirit of god , so thou art to prove that the wicked hath it not , and in joshuah the first , there is nothing spoken in that chapter , that god doth not pour out his spirit upon all flesh , and that wicked men hath not the spirit ; there is nothing at all for his purpose ; all that reads it may see : and as for romans . , . this confounds thee ; all that reads it may see , for this brings people to the spirit of god in them , that they may be jewes in the spirit ; and the romans its known , they had been heathens and wicked people , yet they had the spirit ; and all being not israel that be of israel , rom. . . we know that neither are all true christians that saith they are christians ; but are such israelites and christians that quench the spirit as thou dost ; but thou denies that all men have it , and so opposes the very doctrine of the apostles and prophets . and whereas thou say'st , that saying in the . of nehem. must be reserved thus , moses had that good spirit , and god promised to take off that good spirit that was upon him , and put upon the seventy elders , numb . . . thus joshuah was a man in whom was the spirit , num. . . and had another spirit than many others had , and was fitted thereby for the conduct of the congregation , numb . . . but it cannot hence be inserted , that all or any of the fleshly seed of abraham , or such as were born after the flesh had the spirit , but such onely as were born after the spirit , gall. . , . ans . this is wiggan's conclusion , and meaning upon these scriptures which he hath brought to prove , that every man that comes into the world hath not the spirit ; which are not to that purpose at all , and doth the . of nehem. speak that joshuah had the spirit , and moses , and that it was put upon the elders , and was these them that rebelled and slew the lords prophets , and turned against him ; what prophets of the lord did they slay because thou sayest that in nehem. must be reserved that moses had the good spirit , &c. and they after the flesh , or any of the fleshly seed of abraham , or such as were born after the flesh had not the spirit , but such as were born after the spirit , &c. and nehemiah said generally he gave his good spirit unto them , not only to moses and joshuah , but such as turned their backs on the lord ; which thou cannot prove that ever moses or joshuah slew the lords prophets , &c. and that god deliver'd them into the hands of their enemy , to be vexed and troubled ; and as for numb . . & . doth not prove that the children of israel had not the spirit of god ; nor numb . . , . for that saith , god is the spirit of all flesh ; that proves against thee ; for the children of israel had heard the voice of god , and knew the power of god when thy came out of egipt , and knew his law , and so he was called their god ; and so they knew the things of god , which they could not have done but by the spirit of god ; and moses said they were the children of god , and were a holy people , deut. . and they were to hearken diligently to the voice of god , &c. and he had set his people the jewes the seed of abraham after the flesh above all nations of the earth , deut. . and yet thou fayest , all israel , nor any after the flesh , had not the spirit ; and gall. . , . doth not prove that israel after the flesh had not the spirit , because , they were not born after it ; for those that persecutes them that are born after the spirit , grieves the spirit of god in themselves ; as christ said , the kingdom of heaven was in the pharisees that persecuted , and the jewes that stopt their eares , and shut their eyes , and would not hear , nor see , least they should have been converted and healed ; and that which they stopt their eares , and shut their eyes too , plainly appears it was the spirit , else what did they backslide and erre from , and quench , and grieve ; so it is evident that all these scriptures thou hast brought , is to no purpose to prove that all men hath not the spirit : and whereas , thou brings gall. . . of such as were sons of god , they may , and oft do grieve the spirit of god , it doth not say they may , and oft do grieve the spirit , in the ephes . . . but this thou brings that the sons of god grieves the spirit of god , and quenches it , and not the wicked ; was there ever the like heard , for we say , and the scriptures saith , it is the wicked that grieves the spirit of god , and thou sayest , it is the sons of god ; and as for acts the . . which we alledge , which speak of their rebelling , vexing , and resisting of the holy spirit ; and by this it is manifest that they had the holy spirit , agreeable to that in the . of john , and these were they that opprest christ , as a cart under sheaves , and such vexed the spirit , as in eccles . and whereas , thou sayest , all that do grieve , vex , and resist the spirit of god , have it not ; but they resist the spirit of god in the prophets : this is thy meaning , we know they resist the spirit of god in the prophets , when they first grieve it in themselves , as thou dost ; and as in the fourth of john the world receives him not ; how should they ; when they hate the light , and resist it , as thou dost ; but the spirit reproves them , therefore , they have it , though they cannot receiveit , nor receive christ , but hate him , and so it is thou that grieves gods spirit in his servants . and whereas , thou sayest , when steven said they do resist the holy ghost , it was the spirit in him , by which he spake , as in acts . . as in like manner they resisted the spirit in the prophets , as acts . . which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted , &c. this again is thy meaning , but the scriptures doth not say as thou saith , for those that resisted the holy ghost in stephen had received the law of god by the disposition of angels , &c. acts . . now the law of god was the things of god , and the angels ministring spirits ; so these that had the things of god had the spirit of god , and when they kept not the law of god they quenched and resisted the spirit of god , both in themselves and others . and whereas thou sayest , when the mighty power of god was put forth in signes and wonders in egypt , and the wilderness , numb . . . . and they believing not his spirit not in them , but put forth those mighty workes ; and speaking in joshuah and other faithful witnesses for god in that day ; thus the spirit of god was vexed in noah and lot , by the wickedness of the old world , and not in the wicked , who being strangers , and without god in the world . answ . none of these scriptures doth say as thou say'st , that the wicked had not the spirit of god to grieve , but that it was only grieved in joshuah , noah , and such like ; as for numb . . such as had seen the wonders of god ten times , and yet did not hearken to the voice of god , and therefore they erred in their beliefe , as vers . . now how can these hear the voice of god and have not the spirit of god. and the apostle said , they did all drink of the spiritual rock , and all eat of the spiritual meat , and the rock that followed them was christ ; and yet thou say'st , they had not the spirit of god to grieve in them , cor. . , , . and when they lusted and tempted god , and murmured against god and fell , then they grieved gods spirit ; and yet thou say'st , they had it not to grieve , but it was only grieved in others ; and had it been righteous with the lord in one day to cause . to fall , if they had not grieved his spirit which he gave them , and so they griev'd him : and dost thou not believe that the apostle and those corinthians had the spirit of god , who sayes , let not us tempt god , as they tempted him , nor murmur as they murmured ; and heb. . the apostle sayes to day if you will hear [ his voice ] harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the day of temptation in the wilderness , when your fathers saw my works , i was grieved with that generation they do always erre in their hearts , and what did they erre from in their hearts , if it was not from the spirit , for when they had heard god , they did provoke him , though all that came out of egipt did not provoke him , for as the gospel being preached to all nations , the word was preached to them , but the word did not profit them , not being mixed with faith in them that heard it , heb. . and heb. . and in rom. . the word of faith which they preached was in the mouth , and in the heart , which all had heard , and can any hear the word , and have not the spirit , and is not the word spiritual , for doth not the apostle say to the romans , which had been heathens , and moses to the jewes , deut. . from the . to . vers . which saith , it was not far off , nor hidden from them , which saith , they need not say , who shall ascend up into heaven , or beyond the sea to bring it , but the word is very nigh , even in thy heart , and in thy mouth , that thou maist do it , so good , and evil , life , and death , was set before them , and this was spoken as well to those that did disobey god , and for their wickednesse , should be scattered among the nations ; if hap'ly thence they should turn from their wickedness , and turn unto the lord , and then they need not say , who shall go up to heaven , or to beyond the sea to bring the word , for it was very nigh them , in their hearts , and in their mouths , that they might obey and do it , and the scripture witnesses the fulfiling of this upon many of them . and whereas thou sayest , that the spirit was vexed in noah , and not in the old world , this is contrary to the scriptures , for the lord said , my spirit shall not alwayes strive with man , and how that the sons of god saw the daughters of men , and took of them wifes of all that they chose , and how that all flesh had corrupted its way , which shewes they had a way before they corrupted it ; but thou sayest they had not the spirit , doth not the apostle say , pet. . , , . vers . that christ preached to the spirits in prison , which sometimes were disobedient , when the long-suffering of god waited in the dayes of noah ; and what prison is this , and what prison is it that the prisoners of hope must shew themselves forth , and as it is written , sodom gave its self over to fornication , &c. wherefore god brought his vengeance upon them , who judges the world in righteousness ; this shewes a transgression , that they went from the good , and gave themselves up to wickedness , as spiritual sodom does now , and if wicked men have not the spirit , ( as thou saist ) how then can god , who is a spirit , judge the world in righteousness , and doth not the apostle justifie the heathen phylosophers for saying , we all live and move in god , acts . , . that if hap'ly they might feel after god , and finde him , though he be not far from every one of us ; and how can they feel after him and have not his spirit , which thou ignorantly with thy mind puft up , sayes , they have it not ; and because the saints was a habitation of god through the spirit , therefore , thou asserts wicked men have not the spirit to vex and grieve it ; but this proves it not , that such as be without god in the world , and strangers have not the spirit of god in themselves to grieve and vex , thou saith ; for that which may be known of god , was manifest in them , and when they knew god , they did not glorifie him as god , but became vain in their imaginations , and changed the truth of god into a lye , such becomes strangers to the life of god , rom. . so these scriptures overthrowes thy assertions , and proves that wicked men grieves the spirit of god in themselves , as well as in others . and whereas thou saist , joh. . , . if i depart , i will send the comforter , &c. thou saist by this promise christ makes , is to send the holy ghost after his departure ; it is evident enough that this scripture can be no proof of thy assertion , ( to wit ) that every man that comes into the world hath not the holy ghost ; for if every man had him when he came into the world , what need was there he should be sent to them , after christs ascension ? nay rather , this shews they had him not before he was sent , and so not till after christs departure , which destroyes thy opinion ; yet thou grants the holy ghost is come after christ ascended , to the apostles , and to reprove the world ; so by this thou hast overthrown thy own opinion and assertion ; and we say that christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , and is a saviour , and the light is saving ; and the holy ghost is given to reprove the world , and lead the saints ; and it s proved before that the wicked resisted the holy ghost , before christ came in the flesh , and the holy ghost was given to the disciples after christ was ascended , and he should reprove the world ; but thou denies it , and sayes , they have it not ; and so demes plain scripture , and perverts our words ; for our words is , that christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and sayes , believe in the light , and the holy ghost reproves the world for their unbelief in the light which leads the saints unto all truth . secondly , thou sayes , this promise is made particularly to the disciples of christ , i will send him to you , and not unto the world. answ . why dost thou wrong the scriptures , doth it not say , when he comes , he shall reprove the world of sin , righteousness , and judgment ; of sin , because they believe not in him ; was he sent then only to the disciples , and not to the world ? read iohn . , , , . over again , and see thy own ignorance and darkness ; and it s sufficiently proved that the wicked resisted the holy ghost before christ came ; as also they that killed the prophets , and also it s proved that christ did send the comforter to his disciples after his ascension , which spirit should reprove the world ; and though the disciples were led into all truth by the spirit , by which they was to preach the gospel to all nations , that the name of christ might be spread over all ; this doth not disprove the spirit of reproving the world ; which thou in thy ignorance brings to prove that the world hath not the spirit to reprove them ; and in the . of john christ saith , that they all may be one as thou father art in me , and i in them , that the world may believe that thou hast sent me : now how can the worldbelieve , if they have not the light and the spirit in them to believe in , seeing believers hath the witness in themselves ? and as for christs miracles and signes which some believed , and some gain-said ; for some said , he did miracles by the prince of devils , such stop their eares and closed their eyes , least they should be converted ; as acts . and thou sayest , the holy ghost was poured upon none but who repented and believed ; this is thy saying , who art ignorant of the scriptures , which saith , god would pour out his spirit upon all flesh , acts . joel , joh. . and such as repented and believed received the holy ghost , and others resisted it , and quenched it , so that here is a difference betwixt the believers and unbelievers , for the one receives it , the other rejects it , though it be powred out upon all , as christ saith , the word was sowne in the field ( which is the world ) it was sowne upon all grounds , upon the thorney , the bryrie , the high-way , and the stony ground ; but who brought forth fruit , but the good ground , mat. . and this sufficiently proves that the spirit is powred upon all flesh , and heb. . which speaks of such as were once enlightened , and had tasted of the heavenly gift , and was made partakers of the holy ghost , and tasted of the good word of god , and if they shall fall away , it were impossible to renew them again to repentance , seeing they crucify ( the lord of glory ) the son of god afresh , and put him to open shame ; and now priest wiggan sayes , these wicked men had not the spirit , nor was not enlightened , yet they crucifyed christ afresh , and put him to open shame ; and thus with his wisdome he abuses the scriptures , though he hath long made a trade of them . and whereas thou makes a preamble upon our words , wherein we replyed to thy assertion ( to wit ) that no wicked man had the spirit of god , but only the saints , and thou did affirm that balaam had not the spirit of god ; and we proved that balaam had the spirit of god , and heard the word and voice of god , as numh. . and now thou hast overthrown thy own assertion , and confesses that balaam and saul had the spirit of god , which thou confesses was wicked men , and thus thou hast split thy self upon the rock , and overthrown thy foundation , for before thou affirmed none had the spirit of god but believers ; and balaam prophecyed of great things to the jewes , and god spoke to him , and we know there is a difference betwixt those that grieves the spirit , and those that walks in it ; and before thou was ignorant of these scriptures , as balaam and saul having the spirit of god , and now thou confesses that wicked men may have it upon some occasions , but sayes all wicked men hath it not , read over again joh. . acts the d . that the holy ghost should reprove the world ; and god would powre out his spirit upon all flesh , which before thou would limit only to believers , with thy dark imaginations ; and how darest thou preach the scriptures , which are the things of god to wicked people ; who sayes they have not the spirit of god , and here again thou overthrowes thy assertion , and thou sayes it is the spirit of god in the ministers of christ that must convince the world ; and when as we bid thee , ( who lookes upon thyself to be a minister of christ ) convince us of any evill we have done , thou shufled it off , and said god must convince us , and so confuted thy assertion ; and whereas thou wrests and perverts the scriptures , and sayes , balaam did not see the starr of jacob , which it is said at a full stop , by balaam , there shall come a starr out of jacob , and a scepter shall rise out of israel : now how could he prophesie of it , if he did not see it ? and this overthrowes thee and thy assertion , who never saw so far as balaam did . and whereas thou sayest , they shall see him when every eye sees him ; by this thou confounds thy own assertion , for none can see god or christ without the light of the spirit ; and thou confesses every eye shall see him ; and we may help thee a little further , for every tongue shall confess , and every knee shall bow , at the name of jesus ; if thou knew what his name is , then thou mightest know that the light of the body is the eye , which sees god. and whereas thou brings job , who said , when i see for my self , and with my eyes , and this thou brings to prove that israel and balaam should not see till the latter day ; and thou maist read job , and confute thy self , job . who saith , i have heard of thee by the hearing of the eare , but now my eye seeth thee , here job was a true prophet , for before he said he should see him , now he sayes he did see him , and thus thy ignorance ( knowes not scriptures ) appeareth , and we know what the believers saw , and are satisfyed , and we believe thou hast not come so far as balaams asse , nor heard the voice of god as he did , though thou would sit as a judge of the world , and in the saints conditions . and whereas thou sayest , that the spirit of god dwelt no more in balaam , then the angel of the lord dwelt in the asse ; and one of thy people said , ( which thou say'st is no baptist ) that balaam had no more spirit then his horse ; he was one of thy followers , and took thy part , and thou didst not gain-say him then ; and now thou say'st in effect the same that he did . and that the spirit of god dwelt no more in balaam then the angel did in the asse ; then let all people read numb . . numb . . numb . . did balaam's asse praise the tents of jacob , and bless israel , and prophesie to many people ; and will god bring balaam's asse to judgment as he doth balaam ; for balaam erred from the spirit , ( but thou cannot say his asse did so ) and loved the wages of unrighteousness , and hast not thou been there , to run greedily after the error of balaam for gifts and rewards ; does not thou remember a difference bewixt l. and l. for preaching about manchester , and who should have had this , john ; and god testified against the error of balaam , but not against the asse , as in jude ; and here it s proved balaam had more spirit then his horse , ( as you called him ) which overthrowes the assertion of thee and thy fellowes : and whereas thou makes a great transgression , because , we said he was a baptist , if thou be a baptist he maintained thy principle , and was one with thee , and why dost thou deny him now . and whereas thou sayest , there is a light or law in every man , which convinceth and reproves of sin , and this made judas bring the money back again , and this ( thou sayest ) doth not reprove of unbeliefs judas was made a partaker of the ministry , and had he no more then a natural man , is this according to thy knowledge of the scripture ? did this which convinced judas not reprove him of his unbelief ? did it not make him confess he had sinned in betraying the innocent blood ? did he not see his unbelief and wickedness here , mat. . and to prove thy assertion thou brings rom. . , . which sayes the gentiles that have not the law , do the things contained in the law , shews the work of the law written in their hearts , their consciences bearing witness , &c. and if thou read the . vers . thou may see that this witness speaks , in the day that god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ ; hereby it plainly appears that in the day when god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ , this spirit which lead the gentiles to do those things contained in the law , will justifie them ; and this uncircumcision the apostle saith , shall be counted circumcision , as vers . . and doth not this light which judges the secrets of all hearts by jesus , convince of unbelief ; so here thou hast belyed the apostle , and whereas thou sayest , this was before that promise in the . of john , we know that — and whereas thou sayest , that this spirit of truth was to convince the world of sin , as in the . of john , and unbelief ; here thou hast overthrown that which thou asserted in the publick meeting , for therein thou asserted that none had the spirit but believers , and this scripture was to convince thee , for that which convinced the gentiles was within , by which they knew god , and was not that by the spirit ? else how came they to be baptized in the spirit , and circumcision in the spirit , and thus one while thou confesses , and another while denies , and so is in confusion ; and goes about to bring one scripture to overthrow another , to thy own destruction ; for when the holy ghost was come , when the apostle preached to the romans and the gentiles , which he spoke of , and preached to , was become the true circumcision in the spirit , and the holy ghost was come then which was promised . and in all thy answers , it doth not disprove the scripture , which saith , the world hath the holy ghost to reprove them ; but christs words which is our assertion stands , and thou and thy assertion by thy former arguments is shaken , and so it is proved that the wicked and unregenerate hath the holy ghost , which thou confesses is the spirit of christ , though they grieve it , and all the scriptures thou brought proves nothing to the contrary , but overthrowes thy assertion , and john . . is answered before , for the world and thou art unlike to receive the spirit of truth , when you reject and oppose the light , and will not receive it , which you should believe in ; for if you receiv'd it , it would not reprove you , but you would have fellowship in it ; & why dost thou judge the world hath it not , when thou confesseth thou hath it , and is in the same nature of the world , in envy , malice , and revenge ; and rom. . . proves nothing to thy assertion , but saith , the saints was not in the flesh , and they that quench and grieve the spirit of god , and will not have the spirit of god , but it reproves them for their sin , &c. how can they be said to be christs , when they will not have the spirit of christ to lead them ; and jude . is clear against thy assertion , which speaks of such as had the spirit , and erred from it , and so became like sodons , and cain , and core , and balaam , these thou brings to prove that wicked men has not the spirit of god over and over , balaam had the spirit of god , that is proved in numbers ; and in genesis it is proved that cain talked with god , and heard his voice , and he could not do that without the spirit ; and core knew the power of god that brought him forth of egipt , and was not he of the tribe of levie that ministred in the priests office , and was he like to medle in the things of god without the spirit ; though these err'd from the spirit , as in jude , and so became sensual . and thou had more liberty to hold forth thy errors , then others had to hold forth truth ; and as the serpent led adam and evah from righteousness and holiness to the tree , by which they fell , so thou his messenger leads people from the spirit of god within them , to something without them . whereas thou say'st in thy second argument , whom christ lighteth with a saving light into their hearts , he causeth the glorious light of the gospel to shine , cor. . , . but he causeth not the glorious light of the gospel to shine into the hearts of every one that comes into the world , for the gospel is hid to some , to whom the god of this world , hath blinded the mind of them that believe not , &c. ans . this doth not follow nor prove that all are not enlightened with a saving light , because , the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that doth not believe ; nor it does not overthrow the promise of god , who said he would give him for a light to the gentiles to enlighten them , who was the glory of israel , luke . . and he should be gods salvation to the ends of the earth , isa . . . . and isa . . . where the lord said , is it a light thing that he should be his servant to raise up the tribes of jacob , and restore the preserved of israel ; but saith the lord , i will give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou may'st be my salvation to the ends of the earth : and when christ came , he said , i am the light of the world ; and he that followes me shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the light of life , joh. . . & john which came to bear witness of the true light , saith , that , that was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world , ( and he sayes ) that all men through him might believe : and christ saith in the . of john , believe in the light ; and he that believed is saved ; so this proves that the light is saving ; and though some be darkness , and the god of the world hath blinded their eyes , because , they do not believe ; yet this light shines in darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not , joh. . . so this clearly overthrowes thee and thy assertion , to be in the darkness , and not to comprehend the light which shines in thy darkness , for he that believes in the light is saved by it , and he that does not , is condemned ; and christ who is the light , is the saviour ; so this proves that the world is lightened with a saving light ; though they neglect their salvation and god is just , in judging of them ; and the saints that believe i● the light , and becomes children of the light , it shines in their hearts , and gives them the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , cor. . but them that hate the light , john . comes to be darkened , and does not know the father and the son as the saints do , for they become haters of their salvation ; and as thou and the pharisees hating the true light , and seting up your own wisdom , instead of the light , then if the light which be in you is darkness , how great is that darkness , when you stop your eares from the true light of christ in your selves , and set up your own way , and denies christ jesus the light to be the way ; and ephes . . . nor math. . neither of these places sayes that the light in them was darkness ; but saith , ye were sometimes darkness , but now are you light in the lord , &c. and christ saith , if the eye be single , the body is full of light , but if it was double or evil , it was full of darkness ; and to the double or evil eye he questions , if that light that is in them be darkness , how great was that darkness ; and this shewes there was two eyes , and the double went from the single eye which would fill the body full of light ; but the double fills it full of darkness , and then calls darkness light , and denies the light of christ as thou dost , isai . . . so all the scripture thou brings and perverts is to no purpose , for they do not disprove the light to be saving . and whereas thou sayes again , such as are lightened with a saving light are new creatures , and are regenerated , and such as the light is , such is the life , and it is implanted in them , and they have eternal life ; but christ doth not quicken , regenerate , make new creatures , and give life to every man that comes into the world , but some are in the flesh , born and are created in sin , have not life , yea die in their sin . ans . here thou goes about to lay the fault upon christ , that men are not regenerate , and hath not life , &c. when the scripture plainly tells thee that it is because they do not believe , and they that do believe are regenerated , born again , and have eternal life , and do know the effects of the light , and such as the light is , such is their life ; but they that doth not believe in the light , does not become children of the light , but remaines in the flesh , and the birth of it , in an unregenerated state without life , hating the light , so hating the life , not because they have not a saving light , but christ saith , believe in the light while you have it ; shewing they have it , before they are children , joh. . heb. . and they that dyed in their sins , ( poor man were in thy condition ) they did not believe that christ the light was he to believe in ; and all the scripture thou brings is nothing to oppose the light of christ to unbelievers , which was spoken to the saints , which thou perverts , for we know what was spoken to believers , and what to unbelievers ; and joh . . where it 's said , if they did not believe that he was the christ they should die in their sins : and the apostle said , all was gone astray , both jewes and gentiles , that god might have mercy upon all , rom. . . and so this mercy of god to the world thou denies , and god respects no man's person , as in the acts , &c. and whereas , thou brings many scriptures to prove , that the saints by the light had faith , had gift to trust in him ; had power to become sons of god , and had christ dwelling in them by his spirit , and by faith , &c. ans . all these is nothing to the matter in hand , for the dispute was not about the saints having the light , for because believers had it , and was grown to such conditions , this doth not make out that the unbelievers had it not ; for god sends rain both upon the just and unjust ; and god so loved the world that he gave his onely begotten son into the world to enlighten the world ; that whosoever believed in him should not perish ; and such as do believe in him have faith , and comes to be sons , and comes to receive christ to dwell in them , and rule in them ; but those that hate light , will not have this man to rule over them ; and hath not god dealt to every man a measure of faith through the grace that is given ; and doth not the grace of god which appears to all men , bring salvation ? which is sufficient and justifies ? read timothy , tit. . rom. . and had not the unprofitable servant a talent to improve , and was not that talent , saving as well as the talent of the other two , that did improve them , if he had improved it , and doth not some that 's wicked , make shipwrack of faith , and of a good conscience , and turn the grace of god into wantonness , tim. . . these departed from the faith , and erred from the faith , and cast off their faith , and tim. . . and the . . now by thy assertion thou sayes , these had not faith , &c. and whereas thou sayes , we brought nothing to weaken thy arguments but that scripture in the first of iohn . which saith , that is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world ; which we say is saving : but many other proofes we brought ( but thou regarded none ) out of iohn and esaiah , to prove that christ was the light and salvation to the ends of the earth ; and so thou are not only ignorant of scripture , but darker then the common-prayer book , for it saith , almighty god which sheweth unto all men that be in error the light of thy truth , to the intent they may return into the way of salvation , &c. and as for thy accusing us for wresting the scriptures and hard censures , we speak them as they were , but it was thou that wrested scriptures to maintain thy assertions , but could not ; and when thou manifested thy ignorance , m. f. told thee of thy ignorance , and as it did , and yet doth appear , and by denying and opposing the light , thou manifested thy self to be a miserable creature , and an enemy of god , and denyed the lord that bought thee ; and rich. cubam proved thee out of peter . . and jude , to be the man that denyed the lord that bought thee , and to be that false prophet that brought in the damnable heresie , and through covetousness and feigned words made merchandize of people , and by such as thee the way of truth was evil spoken of ; and then ye were all in a noise and disorder , and went away in a tempest ; and that which thou didst assert in plain words , [ that god denyed faith to some men , ] which error thou hast left out of thy book , it is like thou was ashamed of that , and when thou was put to prove it , and give us scripture for it , thou seems to bring many , perverting them , but would not make it good by any , which yet it stands unmade good on thy head ; and it is proved before that the righteous had the faith , and such as was wicked had made shipwrack of it , which by the scriptures overthrows thy assertion ; and one of thy brethren said in the open dispute , [ that christ did not shed his blood for all men ; ] which is contrary to the scripture , that saith , he tasted death for every man ; and is a propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world fpist . joh. . and as in adam all dyed , even so in christ all shall be made alive ; which thou hast denyed , cor. . . and thou manifested that thou was not a rational man , as george fox could thee , both in thy practice and carriage in the meeting ; who brake the order amongst us , which was , that all might speak one by one ; and thy laying violent hands upon tho. curwen ; and what margaret fell spoke of , thou hast made manifest that to the full , and my words , io. berley , will stand over thee , for drunkards and swearers will not deny the light , as thou dost ; it was the pharisees , and the chief priests that were most against christ the light , as thou art , as thou may see in the evangelists , and when it was put to thee to make good that christ did not shed his blood for all men , thou didst not then , nor yet make good ; but the scriptures is against thee and thy disciple , heb. . . that he by the grace of god , should tast death for every man ; the love of christ constraines us , because we thus judge , that if christ dyed for all , then all were dead , and he did dye for all ; that they that live should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him that dyed for all , cor. . . and here thy judgment is contrary to the apostles , as thou may see , what error thou and thy people are in , contrary to the scriptures . and whereas thou hast published some part of ( i ) iames parkes letter , what was thou ashamed to publish it all , that the people might have seen the whole letter , but thou serves my letter , as thou dost the scriptures , take part , and leave out part , as thy father the old deceiver did , mat. the . and my letter is true to thee , for thou long deceived me , and led me captive in error and blindness , where thou art thy self , and also many others , from the light of christ jesus ; and i told thee , and writ this to thee in private , which thou hast made publick ; and it is well thou hast , that others may see thy folly and madness , who keepest people from the light and salvation , but praised be the lord i have escaped thy error . and it seemes thou art offended , because i henry wood called thee priest wiggan , was thou not chapel priest about manchester , doth not the country know it , i must not call thee captain , nor major , for thou hast not thy belt , and i cannot master and sir thee as thy hearers does , and it is like thou will be offended if i call thee john wiggan , and art not thou a priest still , hast thou not many collections about manchester , dost thou not live better now than thou could do out of prison ; for many of your priests have but bad tradeing , and are broken merchants , and whereas thou sayes thou art taught not to strive , nor to render railing for raileing , tim. . . but to be gentle to all men , how was thou gentle when thou laid violent hands on john abrams , and was ready to tear curwen's coat off his back , so that he cryed out to thee , what , a minister of christ , and wilt thou fight , and yet thou praises thy self , thou art gentle and will not strive , when thy actions testifies against thee , that thou hates the light , and when thou said , the plagues of god was upon thomas curwen ; this is not rayling with thee ; and said , the spirit of the devil spoke in him , when he spoke truth to thee , and this was thy fury and madness , who art not fit to talk of the saints conditions ; and so it is manifest thou knows not what spirit thou art of , who dost not know the light of christ to be saving , neither hast thou shewed forth the fruits of the spirit of christ , with its workings : and whereas , thou would know , where any of the ministers of christ , or christ called any strange birth of the flesh , &c. it seems thou art ignorant of the scriptures as well as others , as long as thou hast been a merchant , for did not christ tell the pharisees , they were of their father the devil , iohn . and the apostle said to elimas the sorcerer , thou full of all subtilty , who perverts the right way of god : as thou dost , hindering people from believing in the light , ioh. . acts . and so we speak truth to thee , as thou art , we do not falsly accuse thee ; and now see thee where thou art , who long deceived us , but praised be the lord we are come to christ the saving light , which thou denyes , and its manifest what thou art , and what thy suffering is , in the darkness against the light ; and thou proves thy self a thief and a robber , who enters not in by the door christ , the light , but climbes up another way ; and therefore , the sheep knows thy voice to be the stranger , iohn . and we know what thy compassion is ; but thou wants power : thou hast manifested in this book , and the letters thou hast sent up and down to manchester and stopperd ; and thy deeds are manifest in the light which thou hates so much ; and the lord is rebuking the evil spirit , and judging it , and thou wilt feel the weight of his hand for thy maliciousness to his people ; and it is thou that hath mislead and misguided the simple , who brings forth arguments to no purpose , to strike at the corner-stone christ the light , it being fallen upon thee ; therefore , thy arguments is manifest to be to no purpose ; and therefore , thou art thus tormented ; and whereas thou savest , our corner-stone being struck at , then the building must needs fall to the ground : but i say , our foundation is christ the light , ioh. . which we know that thou , and all the generation of priests have struck at , till you are all tumbled down your selves ; but christ our corner stone , and foundation , and light , never fell ; but thine is fallen , and therefore thou ragest : and we do affirm in our words and printed books , that christ , who says he is the light , in joh. , he is the dore , joh. . he is the quickning spirit , and he is the corner stone which god hath laid in sion , he is the truth , and he is the all , and in all and above all , according to scripture ; and to be believed in , and hath enlightned every man that comes into the world ; and he is the redeemer and the word ; and this thou denyest , christ the light , the quickning spirit , the way , the truth , the corner stone , the word , the foundation , the redeemer and the all ; and here indeed , thou hast denyed the corner stone , and christ jesus , which the prophets , christ , and the apostles testified of ; so thou hast manifested thy self against them : so never take their words to make a trade of any more . and thou canst not call christ the light , a quickning spirit , the way , the truth , the word , the foundation , the corner stone , the redeemer , this thou canst not call the true jesus thou sayst , we do believe thee , and that thou art an enemy to him , and them that walk in his light are manifest : and therefore have i richard gubbam proved thee a false prophet and antichrist , according to thy own-words , and we are come to repentance , and the knowledg of the truth , and thy ways be detected , whereby many simple hearts be turned from them , and so now we are many of us undeceived from such deceivers as thee , who calls christ the light , the word , the way , the truth , deceiving , but the lord rebuke thee who strives to keep ignorant simple people from the light , and in darkness thou wouldst aspire up as a judge of all conditions , and knows not thy own to be miserable , blind and naked , rev. . yet thou tell'st the reader what the light is , and what it can do , and what it cannot do ; and of what use it is , when thou in the darkness cannot comprehend it . and whereas thou tellest us of the light of the first adam , and the spirit of man is the candle of the lord , proverbs . and genesis . adam was made a living soul , . cor. . and thou sayest , this candle of the lord , or light in every man , is inferior to other lights , and is lower than the angels , and is limited and bounded , &c. and now would not this light have justified the jews , and adam ; and the candle of the lord , would not that have directed them in his way ; and did not david call the word of god a lanthorn to his feet , and a light unto his path : and is this thy spirit which is under the bonds and limits ; for where the spirit of god is joyned to , there is liberty ; and we do not tell thee of the light of adam , thou art gone from the matter ; but we speak of the light of christ jesus , the second adam , the lord from heaven : for our dispute was not about the earthly adam , the spirit of a man ; but our discourse was about christ the light of the world , the saviour ; and thou tel'st us of the light of adam ; this is thy dark wisdom , and like thy knowledge and experience of christ . and whereas thou say'st , the spirit of a man , or light in every man is understood to be the reason , or the understanding of a man , whereby he is adopted to know his creator ( viz. who made him according to david , psalms . . answ . here thou hast confuted thy self ; for can man be adopted to know his creator with his own spirit and reason , and his own light which thou call'st natural ; for the natural man knows not the things of god , and the spirit of man knows the things that be of a man ; even so the spirit of god knows the things that be of god ; and if all nations must know the lord god that made them , and serve him , and they are his people , and the sheep of his pasture , and they must worship and kneel before the lord their maker , and keep his laws , then they should have the spirit of god ; for natural men cannot discern the things of god , nor hear his voyee , nor worship him , as thou said'st before , so these scriptures over throws thy assertion , psal . . . and whereas thou say'st of this light , we may understand christ to speak . mat. . . therefore if the light in thee be darkness , how great is that darkness ? together with this light set up in every man , which shows him his creator ; that he is to be served , and how he is to be served ; of necessity there must be a law implanted in him ( which law is called light , prov. . . whereby the will and mind of his creator , which is imprest upon him , and made known unto him ; so that he by the spirit or light set up in him , could reflect this law , and understand the reason and reasonableness of it ; this was the fullest light in man before the fall ; he could look his god in the face , and come to his presence with the light , and serve him with gladness . answ . what error and confusion is this , if the light , which is darkness , shewed adam the face of god , and is that which shews the creator , and is the law in the heart which reflects upon people ; for that which is spoken of in the of math. where christ saith , if that light that be in you be darkness , how great is that darkness ? which he spoke to the double ey'd state , which if the eye be single , the whole body is full of light . and adam before he fell , had no darkness in him , and if the law in the of the prov. be darkness in men , with mat. . as thou comparest it , in thy blind & erroneous meaning , and so perverts the scriptures to thy own distruction , for the law is light , and the reproofs of instruction is the way to life ; and this we affirm to be saving , and not the light which is called darkness ; and the law of god which is placed in the heart , whereby the will and mind of god is known spiritually , and the things of god are known only by the spirit of god , and this is above mans reason , or spirit , or darkness , and keeps men in reason , out of darkness , and orders mens spirits to know the lord ; and herein thou hast manifested thy error and ignorance ; for men in the light which is called darkness , knows not god , nor in their natural estate as they are err'd from the spirit of god ; and adam was above that state before he fell , of men in the natural estate in the fall , whose light is darkness , and this is thy darkness and ignorance , in paralleling them together . and whereas thou sayst , since the fall this candle of the lord in man , is become exceeding dim to what it was , so that his understanding was darkned with blindness and ignorance , ephes . . . yet it is not wholly extinct , for then he could not exist , but would cease to be ; and the law which was written in mans heart , now is not so plainly to be read ; yet there is sufficient left to render god righteous in his proceeding against man , who hold the measure of knowledg left in them ( that is to say , of his eternal power and god-head ) &c. answ . by this thou hast contradicted thy self , and granted that every man hath the spirit ; for can any know the eternal power of god and his god-head , without his spirit . then do they not know christ , in whom the fulness of the god-head dwells in ; and before thou calls it natural , and darkness , and reason , and mans spirit , who art ignorant of the new covenant , christ jesus the light , which is given to all man-kind , who is beyond the first , which thou art groping in , & making nothing of , in thy dark understanding ; and yet thou compares it [ this candle ] to the light before the fall , and with darkness , one while is the spirit of a man , and another while is the spirit of a man , and another while is reason ; and where there is reason , there 's the spirit of faith ; and thus intrudes into those things thou never saw , which puffs up thy fleshly mind . . thou sayst what use is this light of , or what can this light in every man do since the fall . and again thou saist , this light or spirit of a man , searcheth all the parts of the belly , prov. . . or as the apostle saith , it medleth with the things of a man , cor. . . for what man knoweth the things of a man , save the spirit of man which is in him , that manifests every action of man , it looks upon every thing done , or to be done , with a direct act of the understanding ; and this singly considered , makes not any thing that is done to be good or evil . answ . all may see how thou hast contradicted thy former words , which thou said , it manifests his eternal power and god-head , and it was the law in the heart ? and now it makes nothing to be good or evil [ thy light doth not ] and in this thou hast contradicted thy former sayings ; and how can god judge the world in righteousness , if the light that is in man shews him neither good nor evil . and this is contrary to rom. . . for that which may be known of god , is manifested in them , for god hath shewed it unto them ; by which they know good and evil , and doth the candle of the lord search all the inward parts of the belly , and manifests every action of man , and looks upon every thing done , or to be done , with a direct act of the understanding ; and yet the evil that a man doth , manifested to his understanding ; what contradictions and blindness is this , for if every action that a man doth is manifested , then sin is manifested , or else every action is not manifested ; and if this light manifests in man what is done , and what is to be done , this makes him a prophet , according to thy words , who has manifested thy self to beignorant both of the old covenant and the new : and that which is spoken of cor. . the which thou brings to oppose the light in every man. and whereas thou say'st , when this light , or mans spirit reflects upon the law written within , according to which it is done , or not done , the evidness of the actions discovered , these reflects are of the soul , and is called conscience ; that is a knowing together with some else ; thus the law discovers the quality of the action , according to rom. . . by the law is the knowledge of sin ; now according to the conformity , or non-conformity that a man's actions bears to the law , such will its sentence be , and answerable to the sentence the law pronounceth , will be the excusations , or accusations of the person ; according to rom. . . which shews the work of the law written in their hearts ; their consciences also bearing witness , and their thoughts the mean while excusing or accusing one another : this is that witness which the lord hath left for himself in men , that he may be just when he judgeth the world , and every mouth stopped at the great day , rom. . , . this manifested to adam his transgression , which made him hide himself , gen. . . this manifested to judas his sin , and caused him to bring back the money , and confess he had sined ; this may answer henry wood's query ; neither is this light only exercised in manifesting the things of man , even the secret and hidden things of the belly ; but it is also able to feel and seek after god his creator , acts . , . and is in a capacity of knowing much of him as a creator at least , his eternal power and godhead , by the things that are seen , rom. . , . thus far the light and law within every man may go . ans . what jumbled stuffe is this , and confusion , and contradictions ; can the light the spirit of man as thou callest it , know his creator at least , his eternal power and godhead , and to feel and seek after god ; when thou saidst before , the natural man knew not the things of god , nor the spirit of a man knew but the things of man ; now if all those knew the creator and the eternal power and godhead , and to feel and seek after god ; thou hast proved then that all have the spirit of god ; and by this , overthrown thy own assertion , as thou hast done often before ; and if they know the law of god , which soul and conscience effects upon , as thou faist , then they knew the things of god ; for the law of god is the things of god , and they are known by the spirit , and so thou brings the spirit of man , and the old covenant which thou calls light ; to oppose the new christ jesus , with thy dark wisdome ; and that in the rom. which saith , that which may be known of god was manifest in them , by which they did the things contained in the law , which was spiritually ; shewing the work of the law written in their hearts , which was spirituall ; and this was beyond the spirit of a natural man ; and when they transgressed this ; god did judge them in righteousness , by which every mouth was stopped , they were guilty before the lord , for that which god had manifested in them , witnessed against their actions and made them to confess gods judgments to be just ; and that which made adam to confess and hide himself , was beyond a natural mans spirit , for he knew god , and so he had the spirit of god to discern him ; and after he knew the promise of god concerning christ , which the faithfull and his posterity trusted in it ; christ the covenant of light to the gentiles , which thou fights so against . and judas was made partaker of the ministry of christ , and confest he had betrayed the innocent blood ; and so he had knowledge of the covenant , who is the end of the first law and covenant , and this knowledge of his , was beyond the light , which thou calls the spirit of a man , and beyond thy ignorance ; for david saith let another take his bishoprick ; mark that , and this is no answer to my queries h. w. as thou saist it is , neither hast thou done honestly in not puting my querie down , nor all my queries , that people might have seen them ; its like thou was ashamed , and afraid of that ; and therefore here are my queries , that all people may see them , and the paper i stuck upon the door when thou would not answer them . john wiggan , for the seed sake i cannot be silent , therefore as touching the queries which i spoke to thee of , face to face , and was not satisfied from thee , but thou slighted my query ; therefore i call upon thee to answer me , either face to face , or by writing , for thou maist remember , that thou yielded unto me , that he that did believe had the witness in himself ; but thou did not satisfie me where the witnesse was that did condemn , that is the thing i would know from thee , and in thy discourse that day , thou said all had not the spirit , and thou instanced judas ; now i would have thee tell me what that was , that caused judas to bring back again the silver , and confessed that he had sinned in that he had betray'd the innocent blood , i would have thee to write a distinction , that so i may know a difference between that which caused judas to confess , and the spirit ; and thou seemed to prove out of jude , that some had not the spirit ; but jude said , those were such as separated themselves , and seeing thou holds separation , and dost gather a people after thee ; therefore , clear thy self that thou be not one of those ; and further , one of thy hearers spoke with a loud voice , and said , that balaam had no more spirit then his horse . therefore consider , how thou and thy hearers perverts the scripture , read the . numb . and the , . v. and when thou hast read them , then tell me when the spirit of the lord came on balaam's horse ? and thou john wiggan said , that faith was denyed to some ; and christ sent forth his disciples to teach all nations ; now , if they must teach all , then none was exempted ; but the pharisees said , have any of the rulers believed on him ; but these people that know not the law are cursed . so thou and thy hearers it seems doth not much let to oppose the apostles doctrine , which saith , the grace of god which brings salvation hath appeared to all men . therefore , i would know of thee whether this grace be a teacher , yea or nay ? and if any refuse to be taught by it , whether the cause be his own , or in the grace which hath appeared to all , as aforesaid : and thou or some of thy hearers said , that christ did not shed his blood for all , and that christ dyed not for all : clear thy self of these things , and see how thou canst make them good , and answer them in writing ; and then if thou present any queries to me , i shall not refuse to answer , so far as the lord opens it in me , henry wood. these queries have been unanswered at least a quarter of a year . and whereas thou saist it is a great light , and yet but a candle light , a created light , springing up with man in his natural birth , leading him to know something of his creator , and of his duty to him ; also discovering transgressions against the law of workes , which he was under ; the tenor whereof is this ; doe this and live , rom. . and this it may doe , where christ the way , the truth , and the life , is not so much as heard of ; thus it was in adam when he had sinned , as before the promise of grace was held forth in the seed of the woman , gen. . . the light and law within him discovered sin unto him , but mark the effect , horrour and amazement seized upon him ; i was afraid and hid my self , gen. . . for this law speakes nothing but wrath to all , that are in the fall , rom. . . notwithstanding amendment , and the most exact future obedience they can yield to it . answ . where , dost thou read in the scriptures of a created light , god created the sun , moon , and starrs , and was this the created light that made adam to hide himself ; and did this created light springing up with man in his natural birth , which thou calls the candle and spirit of the natural man , which knowes not the things of god , cor. . and this thou brought before , and is this created light the law of works ; do this and live ; and is this created light the spirit of man , that leads him to horror and amazement : nay , it is a divine light that lets a man see himself ; and all those scriptures doth not speak of a created light , or a candle light , which is the spirit of a natural man , leading him to know something of his creator , and of his duty to him : when the scripture saith , the natural man knowes not the things of gods how ignorant and carnal art thou , was the law of works the created light springing up , with the natural man ; for that was the law of god which is spiritual , which saith , do this and live ; as in the romans . and how was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world ; if adam had no more but a natural light springing up with man , and is the image of god , righteousness and holiness , which he was made in , a created light , and the candle and spirit of the natural man , as thou saist formerly ; in this thou manifests both thy ignorance and contradictions : for , that of god in all men , by which they knew their creator , and the things of him ; it is by his spirit by which thou hast said , they may know their creator by a created light , and by a candle , which is the spirit of a natural man. and thus , thou hast overthrown thy own assertion , and opposes the covenant of light , christ jesus , and art contrary to the scriptures , cor. . . and what is this to the purpose , as all being concluded under sin , we know that , and we know that the law is spiritual , and what it can do ; but we own christ the end of the law , for it served , till christ the seed came , who gives life . and whereas thou saist , the light which thou called natural , and making no distinction in this place betwixt that which is natural , and that which is spiritual , but saith the light flowes from the principles of nature , rightly called natural , and not spiritual ; and this thou would set up in opposition against christ the light , for the apostle spoke to the romans , how they were from the light , and from the law , and while men be in that which flowes from the natural man , they know not , neither the law that is spiritual , nor the light of christ ; and men obeying the light of christ , or the law of god ; it is not by that which flowes from nature , but from that which gives them a spiritual understanding ; for the natural man doth not know the things of god , and all those scriptures in the romans , galatians , and corinthians , is nothing to the matter of thy purpose , concerning the light of christ that doth enlighten every man. and whereas thou sayest , this light knowes nothing of the pretious gospel ministry , hid in god , nothing of redemption by christ , nothing of gods good pleasure , and purpose of grace ; nothing of the law of faith , the tenour whereof is this , &c. this all may see how thou hast contradicted thy self , by thy former words , for thou sayes , that this light is able to seek or feel after god his creator , and is in a capacity of knowing much of him , as a creator , at least his eternal power , and godhead ; and can this light let them know the eternal power and godhead , and nothing of christ , who is the power of god ; and nothing of the gospel which is the power of god ; and can a man know something of the creator , and nothing of his favour ; for is not his grace his favour ; and they that lived in the law was justified ; and they that were obedient saw christ the end of the law , and came to him who is the end of the law ; and beyond the natural man's spirit which thou talks of , so fast to no purpose , but manifests thy confusion , for to know god is eternal life , joh. . . and that is beyond thy natural man's light ; and we do know that they that believe in christ jesus the light ( which thou opposest ) shall have eternal life ; and we know that the law of faith is not natural , nor the light of christ that doth enlighten every man , nor the law of god , nor the promise of god with all the rights held in the faith ; and the seed christ shall bruse the serpents head ; and he is come a light and salvation to the ends of the earth , that enlightens every man ; and we know the law of faith is spiritual ; and whereas thou say'st , the law of works springs up with man's nature ; and the law is spiritual , and then this natural springs up with the spiritural : why how now john , where finds thou this in the scripture , the law is receiv'd from god , and not springing up with man ; what non-sence and confusion is this , what a mechanick man art thou . and thou saist , the law of faith was added because of transgression , and out of mere grace was founded on christ in the gracious promise . gen. . &c. answ . we say , neither the law of faith , nor the law of god , sprung out of mans nature , and the law which was added because of transgression , was not called the law of faith ; so thou errs , and art as wide in this as thou art about the light of christ ; i believe thy brother price would not say , that the law which was added because of transgression , was the law of faith ; and so thou art the vain man that would be wise , as thou say'st ; which is born like a wild asses colt , job . and gods thoughts are not as thine , but are as far different as the heaven is from the earth . and whereas thou say'st , man is not able by all his candle-light to know christ ; and yet thou said , before he could know the eternal power and godhead by this candle light ; and now thou sayes , the natural man cannot deser●e the things of god , because , they are spiritually discerned ; and before thou said , he might know much of his creator , and of the eternal power ; how now john , dost thou not think the least babe seeth thee here , thou needs not an aoster to discern thee . and whereas thou say'st , that this light is not able to discover or convince man of unbelief in christ , and yet thou sayes , this light will shew the eternal power and godhead , which fulness of the godhead dwels in christ ; and we know that the spirit of truth doth convince the world , which thou opposeth , the comforter and he is come , and why dost thou tell us of a natural light , or created light , or mans spirit , which it manifests thou knowes no more , but heathen like or athist like ; for it is the light of christ jesus the new covenant , which farre exceeds thy natural lights , and created lights , and man's spirit , and thy meanings ; and acts . . i have set thee to be a light to the gentiles , that thou should be my salvation to the ends of the earth ; and this overthrowes thy principles , for he the light is the salvation to the ends of the earth , who lightens every man , which is saving ; and galla. . , . and tim. . . this proves that christ the light is a mediator , which thou before deny'd , and christ the light hath manifested the love of the father to mankinde , and they that walk in the light sees it ; but thou that hates it , and talkes so much of thy natural light , and spirit of man ; knows it not , nor cannot comprehend it in thy darkness , though it shine in it ; and dost thou own that in mat. . revelation of the son , ( thy generation us'd to deny revelation ) for no man knowes the father but the son , &c. and yet thou saist man may know by the natural and created light , and natural man's spirit , the mind of his creator , and much of the eternal power and god-head , and so thou contradicts thy self and contradicts christ , and the apostles words , for the natural man perceives not the things of god , and that which may be known of god , is manifested in them , by which they know god , and no man knows the father but the son ( and is not the father the creator ) and he to whom the son will reveale him , ephes . . . joh. . , . titus . . jo. . , . gal. . . cor. . . ephes . . . cor. , &c. these scriptures are spoken to such as received christ the light , through which they came to be the sons of god regenerated and born again , jo. . , , . and by this light manifest in them , they came to have the new mind , by which they were joyned to the lord , and eph. . and thou speaks of a new light , here thon perverts the scripture , and whereas thou saith , cor. . which saith god commanded light to shine out of darkness , which shined in darkness , and the darkness comprehended it not , jo. . which shines into the saints hearts , ( and this light thou seemes to have denyed before ) which shines in our hearts , and gives us the knowledge to see thy confusion , the least babe of us , for this light gives us the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , and this thou strikes at , with thy candle-light , and created light , and natural light , which thou calls the spirit of a man ; but to no purpose is thy tempest risen , against the lord , and against his anointed , for it is the lord jesus christ , who is the councellor and leader of the people , whom we follow ; and such as follows him receives the spirit of adoption in their hearts , and can call god father : but what is this to thee , who denies his light , and calls it natural and created ; and is not that light saving according to thy own judgment , and will bring a man to know the creator , and the eternal power and godhead ; thou calls it natural mans spirit , which knows not the things of god ; and thou thus art confused ; but we tell thee christ jesus is the saviour of all men , who is the light of the world , and did not come to condemn the world as thou dost ; but that the world through him might have life , and to save the world ; and is the saviour of all men , especially , them that believe : and all these scriptures was spoken to the saints condition , ( and not to thine ) such who walked in the light which thou fights against . and whereas thou say'st it may appear by what thou hast said , how gross their mistake is , who call the light in every man , christ , and worship this as the redeemer , and the lord that bought them . ans . all that thou hast spoken hath been against christ , and it is to no purpose , and clears nothing , but hath made thy self darker , concerning christ the light : joh. . and joh. . which saith , that was the true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world ; and as many as receives him [ the light ] he gives them power to become the sons of god. and this light thou calls ( maliciously ) created and natural ; when didst thou ever hear any of us say , we worship a light within us ? this is thy gross mistake , we worship god in the spirit and truth , and christ is the truth ; and the apostle who was a minister , preached christ in people ; and was not he the lord that bought them , col. . . and this thou scoffest at , because , we confess it , and enviously calls it a natural light . and whereas thou say'st , it hath been cleared , that this light in every man is but the spirit of man , and the law written in the heart . ans . how darest thou say , that christ the light , that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , which john came to bear witness of , is a natural light , then john came to bear witness to a natural light ; and the spirit of a natural man which knowes not the things of god , cor. . and this natural light and spirit of man is the law , written in the heart , this is contradiction to the scripture , which saith , the law is spiritual . and whereas thou say'st , christ came to deliver from the terror and condemnation of this law written in the heart ; which thou calls natural light , and spirit of man. ans . doth nature terrifie , and condemn nature ? the jewes law was written in tables of stone ; the new law or covenant is written in the hearts , and christ did not come to redeem from the latter , but from under the jewes law ; and we never called the natural light , the created light , the natural man , christ , nor worshipped it , but thou must write to them that doth so ; yet thou art slack enough to do that i believe ; but it is christ the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; that 's it thou calls , a fictious christ , and an idol , if thou would speak plainly ; who is given for a covenant , a light to the gentiles , and the glory of israel ; whom we witness , and have the testimony of , luke . , and whereas thou speaks , of denying the true jesus emanuel , god and man in union , whom his own person without us , not ours , hath by one offering once for ever wrought eternal redemption for us , and is the alone object of faith. ans . thou who hast denyed christ the light , that doth enlighten every man , that through him all might believe , joh. . . . thou hast denyed the true jesus , god and man in union , the emanuel , and the one offering which perfecteth for ever , them that are sanctified , hob. . so thou hast denyed thy salvation , and the object of faith , and christs doctrine , which saith , we must believe in the light , &c. and whereas thou say'st , it will follow that whosoever affirmeth and teacheth that the light in every man is christ , is a deceiver and an antichrist , joh. . ans . here thou hast perverted , wronged and wrested the scripture to thy own destruction ; for the scripture saith , whosoever confesseth not , but denyeth christ come in the flesh , that 's the anti-christ , the deceiver : and doth not say , that christ the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is an anti-christ and deceiver ; but here priest wiggan hath called john an antichrist and deceiver , who came for a witness , to bear witness of the true light that lightens every man that comes into the world ; and i am the light , said christ , believe in the light , i am come a light into the world , joh. . . and they that did believe in the light had fellowship in it , and the light that shone in their hearts , gave them the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , cor. . ioh. . and so thou hast proved thy self to be an antichrist , and doth deny christ come in the flesh ; who enlightens every man that comes into the world ; and thou calls the true light of christ , which the saints and we walk in , the natural mans spirit , and a created light , and a natural light . as to thy objection which is against john , who saith , this is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world : would john have bid them believe in it , except it had been christ , joh. . , , . and this is an invincible proof against thy assertion , and all the people thou dost deceive ; and john was a true witness , but thou art a false ; and john bore a true witness to the light , but thou bears false witness against the light ; and so thou turns people from light to darkness ; and the true apostle turned them from darkness to the light , acts . . and whereas thou say'st , we write in several books , as may be seen , this light christ is god , the lord god , and the lamb , the object of faith ; and this true light which is christ , enlightens not some , but every man coming into the world ; and therefore , it must needs be saving , and that this light can be meant for no other then of christ , they further alleage john . . & . , . where it is plainly exprest that christ is the light. answ . in this thou hast manifested thy ignorance of the scriptures , and of the saints testimony ; and thou scoffs , because we say , christ hath not enlightened some , but all , and so thou art he that makes sects amongst the people , in saying , he doth not enlighten them all ; thou may as well say , his love was not to all , in giving his son for all ; and we say , christ the light is the object of faith , the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , by whom the world was made ; and this is our testimony to all men , for the lord ; and christ is the light , and the lamb , and god is light : and this is our message which we have heard of him , that god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; and christ and god will dwell in man ; whom we witness , glory to him for ever , through which we see over thee , who hath long deceived some of us . whereas thou say'st , we have perverted many scriptures ; that is false , for we speak them as they are , but it is manifest thou hast per verted many , and quoted many false ; and many people that doth not know thy subtle devices , but takes all things for granted , without any trial , such thou may deceive ; for thy book manifests it self sufficiently , if it had not been answered ; but only for the sake of the simple , which thou keeps under thee in thy error and delusion , that they might see thee , and come from under thy snare ; for we are satisfied as to our selves ; for thy work is only to keep people in darkness from the light ; and we are come from under thy captivity , and see thy subtlety and snares , and know what thou can say , and long enough since saw thy confusion . and thou say'st , when it is said , that was the true light which enlighteneth every man that comes into the world , it must be considered , first , who this true light is ; secondly , how he doth enlighten every man that comes into the world : for first , the scriptures do witness that this true light is the word god , by whom the world was made ; thus it is said , joh. . in the beginning was the word , and the word was god ; all things was made by him , that is , by the word god : john was sent to bear witness of the light , that is , of the word god , that was the true light , that is , the word god ; even he by whom the world was made , he was in the world , and the world knew him not , which was the creator and former of all things . ans . in this you may see how he hath perverted the scriptures , and overthrown his assertion , and his former writings in his books ; for he saith , that the light which lighteneth every man that comes into the world , which john bore testimony of , is the word god , by which all things was made and created , which men was to believe in , this was not a saving light saith he , though it be divine ; and doth he not call it a created light , a natural light , and the spirit of a natural man , and now it is god , and not saving ; for the scripture saith , the word was with god , joh. . and this speaks of christ , and christs name is called , the word of god , rev. & . and the word was with god ; ( that thou hast left out , ) and this word became flesh . so he goes about to prove that christ was not the word with the father before the world began , which is contrary to the scripture , which saith , i was with him in the beginning , as solomon saith ; and christ saith , glorifie thou me with the same glory which i had with thee before the world was , joh. . and again thou say'st , the word god thus considered , is the true light , the fountain , and original of all lights , according to the scripture , joh. . . god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; this is he in whom was life , and the life was the light of men , in whom we live , move , and have our being , we are his off-spring , and he is the fountain both of light and life , to all beings according to their capacities , as their creator ; and thus we may see what this true light is , the word god. answ . and yet thou saist before , this was not saving , this true light , this word god , how dark art thou , is not christ called god , and his name the word of god , emanual god with us , and pet. . . the heavens and the earth , which are now by the same word , are kept in store , &c. and heb. . . through faith we understand , that the worlds were framed by the word of god , &c. and christ is the light and life of men , and not saving , and is not he saving , and is not he spiritual and saving , whom all has a being in , and moving in ; didst thou not call him before a natural light and a created light , and a natural mans spirit , and would prove it out of cor. . and now it is god , and creator , and not christ , contrary to the scripture , which saith , he is the light of the world , and in the begining was the word , and the word was with god , and his name is called the word of god ; and so people may see how thou would divide god and christ with thy dark wisedome . and thou saist ly . how doth he enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and saist in another place , the word god , or god the word , as creator of all things doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world , by setting up in every man a spirit and law in his heart , by which he lives , which is called the candle of the lord , prov. . of which spirit and law i have spoken before . ans . this light which thou callest the law and spirit of a natural man , and a created light ; this thou hast not proved before , as thou saist , but it s perverted before ; for by this thy proof john came to bear witness of a natural light , and of a natural mans spirit , which knows not the things of god ; and by that john bid people believe in this ; so this is thy dark wisdom , and like unto thy preaching , and it is no wonder people forsakes thee , and that thou shouldst be unestablished , thou needst not be offended for babes seeing thee , for thou caust not be hid ; for john came to bear witness of the true light christ , and not of a natural created light , as thou imagines ; but of him the prophets testified of , he that was preferred before john , joh. . . the light of the gentiles , and the glory of his people israel ; and thou may see in the . vers . which proves , and , . that was the christ ; john bore witness of him , and cryed saying , this was he of whom i speak , he that cometh after me , is preferred before me ; and called christ , the lamb of god that took away the sins of the world ; and this light by which all things was made and created , he came unto his own , and they received him not ; some hated the light , and stopt their ears , and shut their eyes , and would not see , lest they should be converted ; ( as thou dost ) but to as many as received him , he gave power to become the sons of god ; them that believed in his name , and his name is the word of god , rev. . and john saw , and bore record that this light was the son of god , joh. . , , . so , this is an unfaithful and untrue account of the light which thou hast given of the true light , christ , that doth enlighten every man , john . . and whereas thou say'st , it may be further observed that christ is not once named in all , or any of the first nine verses of the first of john , but only the word . answ . see how ignorant this man is of the scriptures , for it saith , the word was with god ; mark that ; and doth thou deny this to be christ , whose name is called , the word of god , rev. . heb. . how god hath spoken in these last dayes unto us , by his son , by whom the world was made : and so here again , he would make a difference betwixt christ and god , and because the word christ is not there , see how he shuffles , and how ignorant he is ; for , christ is called , the light , life , truth , and word , &c. and christ is called , the lamb of god , joh. . and john doth expresly say , that he is the light of the world , joh. . and doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , which true light john bore witness of , that all through him might believe : and thou has denyed christ to be the word , who is the light of the world , and doth enlighten every man that comes into the world : there is three that bears record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost ; so thou hast denyed this record in heaven , who saist , the word is not christ , who was with the father ; spoken of in john , the word was with god ; and . john . vve are in him that is true , in his son jesus christ , this is the true god , and eternal life . and so thou goes about to make people believe christ is not god ; and we know the vvord was made flesh , and dwells in men ; which thou saist , he tabernacled amongst men , as though he did not now ; which we must tell thee he doth now , by the light which shines in their hearts , cor. . . and whereas thou saist , christ the word being imbodied in flesh , he is thenceforth called christ the lord , or the lords christ , and no otherwise doth he bear that name , but as he is the word made flesh , to be seen and believed on , it is not the word alone , nor the flesh alone , but the word and flesh in union , that is called christ ; and is a light to lighten the gentiles , till then there was no such thing as a christ , or a light to the gentiles , but only in a promise . ans . whereas thou saist , there was no such thing as a christ , till he was imbodied in flesh , nor light to the gentiles , but only in a promise . then what was that light which let nebuchadnezzar see the stone cut out of the mountain without hands ; and let job see his redeemer ? and doth not stephen say that was christ they thrust from them , and turned back again in their hearts into egipt ? acts . and was not that christ the word which moses spoke of to the children of israel , that they should hear , and need not say , who shall ascend , or who shall descend ? and did not the apostle say , that was christ , in rom. . and this the righteousness of faith that moses spoke of to the children , deut. . . the vvord was in their hearts and mouthes ; and doth not david call him the anointed ? as in psal . . . and is not the anointed christ ? and daniel calls him messiah , which is christ , dan. . and saw him before he came , and is not the word , christ ; which is according to the law and testimony , isa . . and how was he a lamb slain from the foundation of the world ? and is it not said in gen. . . the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents heads ; and is not the seed christ , gal. . . and christ said , before abraham was i am ; and thus saith the lord to his anointed to cyrus whose right hand i have upholden to subdue nations before him . and what thinks thou by this , what is anointed ? is christ no where spoken of before he was imbodied in flesh ? and we believe he was made flesh , and know it , and are of his flesh according to the scripture ; and we do know the union of christ , and the word that was made flesh ; but thou believes not in this christ , the word which was made flesh , who is the light of the gentiles , and the glory of israel ; and he could not be christ without god , who is manifest in the flesh , which is a mistery to thee ; and we know that christ thorow the gospel has brought life , and immortality to light , and the son of god is come . and what dost thou talk of grace , and denies his light ? and what dost thou talk of the love which was in the fathers bosome ? for thou who denies him , who is the light of the world , and that dost not believe in him [ the light ] how should thou have everlasting life , but perish in thy gain-saying ? and thou saist , that christ did not come to enlighten every man that comes into the world , but only those that believe on him , and brings ioh. . & . & . . ans . this is thy saying , and not iohns , thou hast wronged those scriptures , for none of them doth say that christ did not come to enlighten every man that comes into the world , but only those that believe , thou hast not proved this by the scriptures , though thou hast perverted many : for iohn . said he was the true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world ; and thou saist , but only those that believe : and christ says , i am the light of the world , and believe in the light , and ioh. . . . . doth not say there , he hath only enlightned some , but all good and bad , such as hate the light and would not come to it , lest the light should reprove them whose deeds be evil , this is thy condition ; and the condemnation is because that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light , because their deeds be evil , but he that doth truth , cometh to the light , that his deeds may be manifest , that they are wrought in god ; but thou art not come to the light , whose deeds be evil , and so manifests that they are not wrought in god , but fights against it . and whereas thou speaks , the word made flesh is he that was promised to be a covenant to the people , and a light to the gentiles , who brings into the world a life and light far exceeding the light that was set up in every man that comes into the world , by the word creator . answ . this word made flesh , and covenant of light , which the prophets gave testimony of , as in the of john , thou denyes , and in joh. . and luk. . a light to lighten the gentiles , and this was christ , for john saith , he was not the light , but came to bear witness of the light , that was the true light , that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. and this is above thy natural light , and created light , and made light ) and doth give life ; and dost thou not mean the scripture , when thou speaks of the word creator ? for we have good reason to suspect thee , seeing thou said to me ( thomas curwen , and to william wilson ) in thy chamber , that the scriptures were the author of thy faith ; for the rest of thy generation used to tell us , that the scriptures was the word , and the light of the creator , is a natural and a created light , and the spirit of a natural man ( that knows the things of god ) and this is the light that john came to bear witness of , saist thou . and this thy miserable darkness , in saying iohn came to bear witness of a created and natural light , and spirit of a man , and a natural mans conscience , that he should be sent of god , to bear this witness ; for as many as received him , ( this light which did enlighten them ) became the sons of god , but they that hated this light , it became their condemnation joh. . joh. . . and thou , nor none will never receive life nor son-ship , but as they receive the light which thou hates , & makes such outrage against , but that light which iohn bore witness of , which thou bears witness against , has ript off thy covering , & manifested thy deeds , & turned thy inside out : and the light is a stumbling block to thee , and a rock of offence , for it seems , it has offended thee , an thou that would not have the light , will not have the son , and so has denied thy self of life , yet thou wilt bow the knee , and spit in his face , and say , is not this the carpenters son , the natural light , like the jews : and where doth the scripture say ( which thou hast perverted ) that iohn came to bear witness of the light , the word , creator , and not of christ the ligh the word ; make this good , by plain scripture , without thy immaginations , and before they be born again , they must believe in the light , iohn the th . and so men are in death and darkness , and hates the light as thou dost , and remains in the natural state , while they hate the light , for that which makes manifest is the light , ioh. . ephes . . . and thou saist , the neglect of this distinction of the word creator , and the word made flesh ( which is so plainly laid down in the scripture as hath been shewed ) is the ground of the great mistake of many , who not considering what is testified of the word as creator , do confound that light which is set up by him , ( as such ) in every man , with that light which he gives as he is the word made flesh , and so call the light saving , which is but natural , springing up with him in his creation ; yea , hence they call that light , christ , which is but the law written in the heart , whereas christ is the law-giver , and so cannot be the law. ans . here thou holds forth two words , and was it not the word that became flesh ? and doth not john , revel . . say , that he is the alpha and omega , and his name is called the word of god ? so here is one word , but thou hath not found another word , and so to make two words ; and here thou goes about to divide christ , when the scripture saith , i and my father are one , joh. . and there is three that bear record in heaven , the father , vvord , and holy ghost , and these three are one ; ( he doth not say two words , ) joh. . . and is not the new covenant christ , the law in the heart , hob. . , , . and it is false , for we do not call the natural light springing up with man in his creation saving ; but we say , christ is the light and salvation to the ends of the earth . and the light which is natural , that comes from the word creator , by which they may know the eternal power and god-head , as thou saist before , by which they may seek and feel after god , and brings cor. . which saith , the natural man doth not know nor perceive the things of god. was there ever such confusion as this ? for they that had that which let them see the eternal power and god-head , was by that which might be known of god , which was manifest in them ; for that which brings people to know the eternal power and god-head , and to feel and seek after him , and to know much of the creator , is not a natural light , as thou saist doth , but it is a spiritual light ; and it is thou that confounds thy self with thy own imaginations , and distinctions , and wrongs and abuses the scriptures , and is not fit to take them into thy mouth ; for thou hast made a trade of them too long , and the light christ jesus , who ends the law. and where doth the scripture speak of a natural light , and a created light , from the word creator , springing up with people in their creation ? for a natural light makes him but a natural man still , by which he cannot know much of his creator , who is spiritual as thou saist , nor seek and feel after god , nor know his eternal power and godhead , for the natural man perceives not the things of god , but they are foolishness to him , for they are spiritually discerned ; but it is christ the true light which iohn came to bear witness of ( which thou calls natural ) which men are to believe in , so thou leads people from the true light christ jesus , and so to hate christ ; and so thy self and them both into condemnation , ioh. . and the light will be thy condemnation , fight against it as long as thou wilt , for it is the saints armor ; for , put on the armor of light , saith the apostle to the saints . and whereas thou writes to thy people to keep them from the light christ jesus , which light thou art afraid of coming to , but many is come to it : and further thou tells thy people of trembling , nay they are far off that ; thou and thy people are rather in scorn against the light of christ , and calls it natural : and whereas thou saist , how destructive and pernitious will the light of christ which we speak of ( and iohn bore testimonie of ) prove to pretious souls ; and thou saist , admit this grand lye for the corner stone , and the whole superstructure will consist of lyes . answ . this is thy envy against christ the light , and foundation which destroys the lyer and lyes , for there is no lie of the truth ; and thy foundation consists of nothing but lyes against the truth , for thou and thy generation of priests , has long prophesied falsly against christ our rock and foundation ; and that we should fall , untill you be all tumbled down your selves : and many of your merchants are turned bankrupts ; oh that thou wert but in authority , thou wouldst shew other weapons against them that walks in the light of christ ! but god has broken thy horn , and truth remains the same as ever , and shines over all your heads , glory to the lord god for ever . and thou saist , open this as the first door of entrance ( as they do ) and it leads into a babell of confusion and errors , no sooner is a man entred in at this deadly gate , but he is in the city tohn where first ( if his eyes be anointed with eye-salve by the true iesus ) he may behold this image of iealousie , viz. the light that is in every man that comes into the world . answ . thou calls the light of christ , which iohn came to bear witness and testimony of , an image of jealousie , that leads into the city tohu , and into a babell of confusion , &c. what doth iohn come to bear testimony of such a light as this is , that people was to believe in as he saith ? doth the scripture speak any such words in john . . what railing expressions is here against the true christ jesus , who enlightens the gentiles , and the glory of israel . this is just the jews , who said , he had a devil : might not margaret fell justly call thee a blasphemer ? and what dost thou talk of the true jesus , and eye salve , when thou deniest him the true light who is the door ioh. . but you are all seen who deny the light to be gone into tohu and confusion , and the least in the light of jesus , sees your images of jealousies fall down one after another . and you are also faln with them in darkness , who denies the light with the earthly wisdom . and whereas thou saist , set up and worshiped in prayers and praises , all the honour and attributes due to the true redeemer alone , being ascribed to it , which is an idolatry so much worse than that of ieroboams and the papists , by how much it is the more mysterious , and in shew the more spiritual , and so less diseernable , whence it comes to pass , that multitudes are insnar'd by it , according to that in pet. . many shall follow their pernicious ways ; the falling down to this image , is that whereby every particular person is matriculated or registred into their society of friends ; for now , and not before ( as they say ) he hath received the truth , and notwithstanding many defects , is accepted as a friend . ans . here thou hast manifested thy lyes , envie and malice , not only against us , but against christ the light , and the prophets and apostles testimonie , for it is god we worship in the spirit , and in the truth ; and god is well pleased with us in him ( christ ) and they that followed christ the light , was his friends ; and so we which believe in the light , and walk in the light , are children of the light : and because many is come to walk in the light , and have fellowship in it , this makes thee to rage against us and our fellowship in the light , and in it one with another ; and what are the defects thou slanders our friends withall ? for we can call all people friends , but they that be in the truth are friends in the truth , [ christ ] who is the redeemer ; and thus to pray to christ , thou saist is an idolatry , and worse than that of ieroboams , and of the pepists . mind the spight and envy , and malice of this man , and what mischief he utters forth against the light of jesus , and them that pray in the light , & in the spirit to christ & god , as the saints did ; and this is become an idolatry with i. vv. worse then that of ieroboams & the papists ; & he saith this leads people into pernitious ways , but that is false , and an error ; for christ the light leads none into pernitious wayes , but thou art deep in them ; who causeth the way of truth to be evil spoken of ; and speaks evil of the right way , and makes lyes thy refuge ; and art compassed with a cloud of error , fighting against the lord and the lamb , but he will have the victory ; for we matter not what thou can speak against us , but when thou speaks against the lord we are bold , and valient , to declare against such , who art promoting thy permitious wayes against christ the light , the way , who is a mystery to thee , and whom thou saist is a pernitious way , because many goes in at it ; was there ever such error uttered ? but it will fall upon thy self ; and this makes thee to rage because babylon is fallen , and she is loosing some of her children : and because we praise god in the truth , and will not follow the priests , but followes christ the light , and honours the lamb ; this thou calls an idol , and worse then that of jeroboams , &c. and as for papists , dost thou not know that two baptist preachers in essex are turned papists , who were railing against the light of christ as thou dost , who art fallen in the dark , that the very words in the common-prayer may judge thee , who in thy pride looks to be far above that . before thou saist , that the light would lead people to see much of their creator , and of his eternal power and god-head , and bring people to seek and feel after god. and now thou saist , it is an idol and an image of jealousie , and worse then that of jeroboams and the papists , and leads into pernitious wayes , and into the city tohu , and into a babel of confusion and errors : how now john , thou hast sure forgotten thy former words , was there ever the like confusion heard ? it could not be believed that ever such wickedness had ever been in a man covered under a feigned humility . and whereas thou saist , vve pray and sing , and teach all , or many together , with loud voices contrary to cor. . , . ans . thou makes no shame of lying , and to publish them abroad to villifie the truth , for all people that knowes us , knowes thou art a lyer ; for neither thou nor any hath heard us speak , or pray , all together in words with loud voices ; neither hath any of us in our meetings been heard speak seldom , but one by one ; but if others have praised the lord when they heard others speak , and sung praises to the lord god ; ( which thing torments thee , ) and if others have lifted up their voices to the lord god when others have been praying together , shewing the lively power of the lord god amongst us ; which torments the deadness of thy assembly , and makes thee thus rage , for in the cor. . they might speak two or three , and the rest might judge , and this is decent order ; but it is disorder in thy dark assembly ; thou would say . elders that fell down together and praised the lord was a confusion , rev. . and make a joyfull noyse , as david saith often ; but these corinthians were in a confusion about their bread and wine , as thou and thy priests are ; but thou art like to the jewes at pentecost that said , the apostles were drunk . and acts . in a meeting when they lifted up their voices with one accord , and said , thou art worthy lord god of heaven and earth , who hath made the heavens and the earth , sea , and all things that is in them : but this thou will sure say was confusion , and whereas thou saist , we call our selves a meeting , not a church , and the particular members , friends , not brethren and sisters : ans . here thou hath manifested thy self to beignorant of the scriptures , isa . . . which calls the assemblies of the church , a solemn meeting ; and the lord gives it the name of a solemn meeting ; the church was met together , and the brethren met with the apostles , acts and amos . . prepare to meet thy god ; and they met with jesus crying hosanah , with palm-trees and branches in their hands , joh. . . and thou would say this was a confused multitude . and further , thy ignorance is manifested in the scriptures , because we call one another friends , thou art troubled , acts . . paul had liberty to go see his friends , and christ saith , ye are my friends , and i have called you friends , joh. . epist . ver . . our friends salute , and greet the friends ; and so because we say friends , and meeting ; this is to set forth a new jesus thou maliciously saith ; but thou art a manifest lyar , both by our words and writings ; for , we call our meetings , churches , and our friends , brethren and sisters ; and so here it will be seen , that we do not characterize our selves by new names , which thou hast falsly , and maliciously charged upon us ; but , thou hast given thy self up to forge lies , and work wickedness ; for no other jesus but him , who is the same to day , yesterday , and for ever , do we own ; who is the light of the world , and enlightens every man that comes into the world , which hath been proved before ; whom john was sent of god to bear witness of , that all through him might believe ; and as many as receives him he gives power to become the sons of god ; which thou blasphemously calls christ the light an idol , and natural light . and whereas thou saist , vve cannot find the names or offices of pastor , elder , deacon , teacher , which christ set in his church . ans . here the very common people will witness against thee that thou lyest ; for the work shewes it by the care and order that nothing is lacking ; for we have more in our church then the names of those offices , we have the fruits of them , for nothing is wanting amongst us ; we have the great bishop , & are taught of god , & do know the lord from the greatest to the least , heb. . but what is become of your teachers and pastors , and deacons , who made such a noyse against us a few years ago , who had the name but out of the life and power . and whereas thou saist , vve do not alledge scripture for our doctrine for proof , but vvomen speak in our meetings . here again thou adds lyes , to lyes , and delights in lyes , psal . . . and art a deceitful witness speaking lyes , prov. . . and hast bent thy tongue like a bow for lyes , jer. . and so speaking lyes in hypocrisie , tim. . for we had never meeting nor discourse with people , but we prov'd our doctrine by scripture ; and at the last dispute thou had scripture brought to prove the truth against thee ; and out of peter and jade , proved thee to be the man that denyed the lord that bought thee . and as for thy denying womens speaking , thon has herein manifested thy ignorance of the scripture ; for christ seat mary magdalen first to declare his resurrection unto his disciples , marke . and that the daughter of phanitel she declared of christ to all that looked for redemption in jerusalem . luke . and. phebe a servant of the church ; which in some translations is a pastor ; and priscilla and aquilla instructor's ; and philip had four daughters prophesied ; and women were labourers with the apostle in the gospel , read acts and romans . women prophesied cor. . and acts . & joel . sons and daughters prophesie . and thus john wiggan can make no distinction between those women that are forbibden to speak , and those who are incouraged and commended ; his envy hath so blinded him , but limits the holy one , that his folly might be manifest to all men , for christ in the male and female was not to be limited , nor prophesye to be despised , thes . . but thou hast manifested thy self to be contrary to christ and his ministers , and so proved thy self to be a false minister , and one of the false teachers , that puts no difference between the pretious and the vile , and a walker in lyes , jer. . and so it is thou that teachest lyes in the name of the lord ; and was mary magdalen a jezabel , and priscilla , phebe anna , the rest of the women the apostle forbids speaking as in tim. &c. how ignorantly dost thou apply the scripture , and wickedly , but this manifests thy judgment of them , but thou art more ignorant than some of the baptists , for some of the baptists would allow women to speak , but thy envy hath eaten out thy sight , and the least of our disciples sees thee to make lyes thy refuge , and who lives in the truth sees thee . and whereas thou saist , we say the scriptures are not a rule of faith and conversation to walk by , hence it is that christs water baptism , and supper , and his censures are rejected . ans . if the scripture be thy rule for thy life and conversation , then why dost not thou obey it ? for if the scripture be thy rule , then thou must burn offerings , and sacrifices ; and if but part of it be thy rule ; why didst not thou set down what part it is ? but we say christ is our rule ( which doth also the scriptures ) math. . . where it is said he shall rule the people , and he is the author and finisher of our faith. and give us that scripture that saith , the scripture is the author of mans faith , and mans rule ; and as for thy bread and wine and outward washings , thou knowst little more than that , nor hardly that , for if thou didst , thou would'st have answered my queries , but thou darest not confess to the power the apostle was in , and we look at things that be eternal , . cor. . and not at the things which are seen ; and such as are risen with christ , seek those things that be above , col. . and as for the outward things , we know them where they be , and do not deny nothing in its place , but our life is in christ ; but thou shelters thy self in outward things , to keep alive in thy old nature , out of the baptism into the death of christ , rom . . and as for thy censures ; you have censured one another , till you are broken to pieces ; and where doth the scripture speak of christs censures ; and christ being within , he is the rule and ruler , and king , ( this is scripture ) within the saints , col. . christ in you , cor. . canst thou not see this scripture within , but thou hast made a trade of them so long , that thy gain hath blinded thee , and was not all the scriptures given forth from the spirit of god within , by inspiration of the spirit , tim. . and is not the new covenant , the law written in the heart , the scripture within , heb. . jer. , . and this scripture within , thou makes a mock and scoff at . and the same gospel as ever was , the power of god we own , and are not ashamed of rom. . . vvhich gospel of christ is the power of god to salvation , and christ saith , the spirit of truth should lead them into all truth ; and was not that their rule , and if the scripture be the rule , what was the guide into the rule to know the things of god , for thou sayest the natural man know not the things of god , for they are spiritually discerned ; then the spirit must be the rule ; and they that are the sons of god are led by the spirit of god , cor. . and joh. . and is not the law written in the heart , the perfect law of liberty , the law of love , the law of faith in the heart ; dost not thou see this is a scripture jam. . . heb. . rom. . . and is not this faith within to be obeyed , rom. . dost thou not here manifest thy darkness to all people , and is not this faith held in a pure conscience , which the just lives by , tim. . . thou mightst be asham'd to scoff at the practice of the saints , and at the scriptures ; but in thy dead faith thou calls light darkness , and darkness light , as in isay : who makes such an outrage against the light , because we say the light is in the heart , and the spirit of god to guide us , is within , according to scripture which speaks of the rule of faith , let christ rule in your hearts by faith . thou hast put him out of his place , & preferred the scripture before him : and what rule had abraham and the saints in the old world before the scripture was written . and whereas thou speaks falsly , accusing and speaking untruths , and persecuting with the tongue and acts of injustice , and thou sayes this we do in obedience to god , and to our guide . ans . thus thou further vents thy lies and malice ; for , the lord god who is pure , and christ our light leads us to no such thing but we speaking truth to thee , and tells thee what thou art without flattery ; therefore , makes thou thy complaint of persecution with the tongue ; but , thou hast the persecuting tongue ; and when thou proves thy other slanders against us , then may thou have a further answer , for we own no injustice . and whereas thou saist , we say the light in every man is the object of faith , and a common sufficient light , that it is salvation to all that obey it , and that we teach free will , &c. ans . here again thou adds lye to lye , perverting our words as thou dost the scriptures , and speaking thy own , for we say christ is the light of the world , and his grace is sufficient for all , and hath appeared to all men , tit. . and believe in the light , saith christ , joh. . , . and christ the light is the author of faith , and we say it is not he that wills or runs , but that god shews mercy , which none is to abuse . and whereas thou saist , we teach and set up an inherent legal righteousness , denying the imputed righteousness of christ wrought in his own person without us ; that christ fulfilling the law in us , or his spirit , mortifying , or sanctifying , and fulfilling the law in us , is justification ; therefore , no coming of christ but that within , and so deny the d . coming of christ , contrary to scripture , & these & many more arminian , popish & long since profligated errors is laid upon their sandy foundation . ans . here thou adds more lies , for christs second coming we do not deny , and he the righteousness of god we own , and never denyed , and it is a false slander of thee to say otherwise ; and our foundation is christ , which thou wickedly calls sandy , isai . . who is a tryed stone , tim. . and the legal righteousness is thy own , it s none of ours , cor. . and the righteousness of faith which saith the word is nigh thee in thy heart , and in thy mouth , we own ; which thou enviously calls an inherent legal righteousness , romans . and that which christ wrought and did in is own person , and suffered without the gates of jerusalem for mankind we own , and never denyed which thou maliciously slanders us with the contrary , and he is revealed within us , and that makes thee to rage ; and all our books which thou speaks of , are according to the scripturea of truth , and to christs and the apostles doctrine ; but thy principles are according to the old errors thou speaks of . but thou saist thou hast done with our principles , thou needs not enlarge upon our hay , wood , and stubble , being assured the removing of our foundation , which thou saist thou hast done , will bring down our whole building . ans . we are gods building , cor. . and we have a building of god , ephes . , and christ is our foundation , which remains and stands sure , tim. and we are built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles , christ himself being the head corner stone , the lord hath laid our foundation , and no other foundation can any man lay , cor. . , . zach. . . eph. . . tim. . and as for hay , wood , and stuble , it is thy own , and will be burnt up , who has denyed christ the light , the foundation ; and called him a natural , and created light , and idol ; but thy foundation and building is down together , it 's hard to know where it stood ; and where are all your builders and daubers ; and now after all thy slanders and raylings , thou wouldst make people believe thou lovest our persons , and when thou hast uttered all thy lyes and malice , thou in hypocrisie and feigned humility , would make people believe thou pittiest us ; but we know what thy pitty is ; but we are come to the true jesus , who takes pity of our souls ; though thou long deceived many of us ; i believe that few people would hardly have believed that there had been so much poison & venom in thee , & thou hast denyed christ , the light , the way , truth & life , & calls him natural and created , and so art in the error thou speaks of , and thy bowels is the belly of hell , jonah . . and what hast thou to do to take the lords name in thy mouth , and hates to be reformed ; but thou art one of them that uses thy tongue , saying ; thus saith the lord , when he never spoke to thee , jeremiah thou saist , thou hast born thy testimony against us , in that which appears in us , against the mystery of christ crucified . ans . christ jesus which was crucified , which thou slanderously saist we deny ; but him we own , it is thou that denies him to be crucified , in denying his light , for we preach christ crucified , cor , . . cor. . and him that the jews crucified , who were in the same envious spirit with thee , against the light , jo. . mat. . . and mark . . luk. . . rev. . . we are crucified with christ , gall. . . and if thou hadst written fewer errors , it had been better for thee ; but praised be the lord god , thy deeds are brought to light and this is a poor shift for thee to come off so , after thou hast laid down thy assertions and cannot maintain them , nor canst not make them good ; for our questions was learned questions and tended not to strife , and yet stands on thy head unanswered ; and thou and all which thou hast declared , hath been against god and christ , so that thou art one that bears false witness against him , not for him : and thou hast manifested the error of thy judgment , for thy understanding is error , psal . . mat. . . tim. . . and that which thou hast done hath been against christ the foundation of the prophets and apostles ; and thy commendation of us is reviling , and slandering , for it is manifest thou hast a double tongue unbridled , jam. . tim. . . and with thy tongue thou thinks to prevail , psal . . but a lying tongue , ( prov. . . ) is but for a moment , and he that uses slanders is a fool , prov. . . but we cannot walk with slanderers , jer. . . and thou saist , our principle hath had its growth and advantage from these means ; from the pride , covetousness , formality , idleness , and cruelty , corrupt oustomes , idolatry , superstition of parish priests , and the generality of their hearers . ans . and john wiggan trencher chaplain shall be put in amongst them : and thus , when you were in your wickedness as thou speaks of before , and mocked god with your religion , as the end of it hath manifested it self , god hath overturned it , and stained your glory , and your pride , which went before your destruction , prov. . . then the lord had compassion upon us in your day , when no eye pittied us ; and revealed his son in us , who is our shepherd and leader , and salvation , ezekiel : and thou with the rest railed against us in your idleness and pride , and carnality ; and who was mader against truth then your separated congregations in railing against the light and spiritual teaching ; and who were taught of god , and christ , and followed him , and would not follow your pernitious wayes ; and when we prophesied to you of your down-fall , both in your towns and cities , and army , you abused us , prisoned us , and persecuted us ; though all the things is come to pass upon you which we then spoke , and yet thou in thy envy and malice art railing against the truth , the light , christ , that it should spread , but thou had rather the evils before mentioned should spread , idleness and pride , &c. and our testimony was born against your pride and hypocrisie , in the truth , and spirit , and power of jesus , against all your false worships , and churches , and teachers , which god hath thrown down according to our testimony ; and you were found treacherous to your own principles in all things ; for we faithfully bearing our testimony for the lord god to you , as he gave to us ; and for standing faithful to him , we were prisoned , and had our goods spoyled by you ; and now you are murmurers against us , because truth stands , and your foundation is fallen to the ground ; and thou wickedly termes the true christ who is light to be antichrist . and whereas thou saist , antichrist doth never oppose christ more then when he appears in a mystery , when he comes in the name of christ , and pretends to be all for christ , reproving much that is evil , and pleading for many commendable things : thus our saviour tells us many false christs shall arise , mathew . . in sheeps cloathing , mathew . . in so much that if it were possible they should deceive the very elect. ans . this is directly thy own condition , who appears in a mystery to oppose christ the light ; but we cannot say of many commendable things thou hast done , or sins reproved ; and neither mat. . nor mat. . saith that antichrist shall do many commendable things , or reprove sins , for that which reproves sin is the spirit which antichrist is gone from ; christ said antichrist and false prophets should come to the disciples , and john saw they were come , john . and they went forth from them into the world ; and as in the revelations the whole world went after them , and they inwardly ravened from the spirit ; and so keeps people from the spirit and light within them , as thou dost ; and these have the scriptures , ( the sheeps cloathing ) and if it were possible would deceive the very elect ; but , john who saw they was come , said , the saints had the anointing within them to teach them , and they needed not any man to teach them , but as the anointing teacheth them ; and the apostles brought them to the light within them , and the law within them ; and christ bid them not to follow the false prophets , but he would dwell in them , and his spirit should lead them into all truth , joh. . and cor. . heb. . . and whereas thou saist , we have cryed against the priests and teachers , as hirelings , and deceivers , coveteus , scandalous , &c. and their hearers as ignorant , superstitious , formal ; and that every charge hath much of truth in it . ans . here thou art made to confess something to the truth , as the devil did to the son of god , and hath judged thy self too ; for thou was one that we cryed against at manchester , and our testimony stands against thee as it did , who professes what thou art not ; dost thou not remember elizabeth hulme , john abraham , james harrison , and what a rage and madness thou was in when they came to thee to declare the things of god , and how thou lift up thy fist of wickedness against john abraham , and could not hold thy violent hands , and the guilt in you all have answered our testimony , and thou yet was never able to stand to truths face , nor answer the truth , if thou had , thou would have answered the queries e're now : and we are not of them which cries , loe here is christ , or loe there is christ , but as the apostle saith , col. . , . christ in you the hope of glory , whom we preach , warning every man , and teaching every man , that we might present every man perfect in christ jesus ; and christ was not like to be found amongst you when you denyed the light , and they that were innocent that had received the light , quickly saw you ; and this light hath , and will stop all your mouthes that denies it ; and the light is not a shew but the substance ; and thou would seem to hide thy self , from the carnal , proud professors , as if thou wert not of them ; but they that knows thee , knows what thou hast been , and what thou art yet , and all thy congregations which thou hast gathered , where hast thou left them now ? so that which thou ( who denies the light ) hath been doing , is but to beat the air. and all that were sober and feared god , seeing you persecuting us , and reviling against the light , and against the spirit ; and what unchristian actions they used against us , was a cause through quiring into truth , to cause them to forsake you , who denyed the light of jesus , who broke into confusion amongst your selves , and biting at truth , and biting at one another , till you were consumed one of another ; and so the good meaning people that did not make godliness a game , as you did , imbraced the light of jesus , and came into the fellowship of the light and the gospel which is the power of god , rom. . and whereas thou saist , the well meaning people easily fell into their net , to do homage to their new god , in the mean while the ignorant rash priests and people who dealt with them , lost themselves , and injured the truth , and gave this people ground to glory over them . ans . if the well meaning people fell to us , then the ill meaning people staid with you , and this manifests you are fallen from truth , when the well meaning forsook you : and whereas thou saist , they did homage to their new god , nay , it s that god and christ which 〈◊〉 ever was , and will be , whom you for sook and denyed ( as thou denies still ) and mocked with your words like them that opposed the apostles , and called it a new doctrine , a setter forth of strange gods , acts ; and so you did injure the truth , as thou dost now , and it is christs net which they were catched in , which kept the good , and threw out the bad , according to thy own words ; and as you have injured the truth , so hath god brought his judgments upon you ; and thou hath given us as much cause to glory over thee as ever any did ; but our glorying was , and is in the lord god , and his son jesus christ , who hath dearly bought us with his blood ; and thou that denies the light , crucifies christ afresh , and puts him to open shame . and whereas thou saist , the right course to deal with us , is to distinguish between good and evil . ans . this thou hast not done , as is manifest in thy book , but like one of the false prophets , who follows thy own spirit , and sees nothing , but puts darkness for light , and light for darkness ; and thou hast manifested thy unrighteous dealing to us , in all thy book , and thou dost not own the good , nor imbrace it , nor cherish it ; how canst thou when thou denies the light of christ ? for , that which doth make manifest and reproves is light , and all things is manifest by the light , and this light thou hatest , and chofest the darkness , ephesians . and loves it more then the light , john . and whereas thou saist , thou will joyne issue with us to bear witness against hireling priests , against tythes , against superstitious carnal worship , against swearing , against corrupt worldly customes , herein joyne with them , are they at least in shew for the power of godliness as well as the forme , for worshipping in spirit and truth , for justice , for righteousness , sobriety , mercy , gravity , and whatsoever is excellent in life and conversation , so am i ; yea , whatsoever they can make appear to be evil ; that i would east off with as much indignation as they ; and what further good they can shew , that i have not learned , that would i gladly imbrace . ans . when did john wiggan bear testimony against hireling priests , and tyth-takers , should not john wiggan had tythes at manchester to make up his wages , and was not he a priest at his chappels ; where he put off his dark ware , denying the light of christ ; and now when john hath lost his chappels , he will cry against them , and their formality , now when he cannot get them ; oh , subtilty , but would he cry against them if he had . or l. a year given him , nay , would he not bless them for it ; and how can thou worship god in spirit & truth , who denies christ the light & spirit of god to be in every man ; thou art a false worshipper , & thy worship is false ; & the lord moved us to cry against thee ; and that in thy high dayes , and must thou talk of crying against corrupt customs , and be in them thy self ; for thy evil words hath corrupted thy manners , and thou art not for the power of godliness ; and thou art far from the modesty , gravity , or justice , or righteousness , thy language bewrayes thee , as thy lyes and slanders , with mocking , scoffing , reproachful words ; and thy sawey language to friends , and especially to margaret fells ; which shames both learning and breeding ; and that most excellent thing in life and conversation thou hast denyed , which is the light of christ jesus , and if thou would cast off thy evil , cast off thy lying , slanders , reproaches , mockings , scoffings , and if ever thou wilt learn or imbrace good , thou must imbrace the light of christ jesus , which hitherto thou hast reproached ; and wilt thou learn of us , which thou callest antichrist , thou manifests thy self , this is but one of thy flattering scorns . and whereas thou saist , through the riches of grace having cast out those beams which dims the eyes of many , i can better discern the meates that lyes deep in the bottom of their eye . answ . thou denying the light of christ jesus , and not owning the grace which brings salvation , which hath appeared to all men , as in titus : thou art far off the riches of the grace , who calls christ the light , an idol , and instead of casting out beams and moats , thou art fighting against christ the light , truth , and covenant , and salvation to the ends of the earth . and whereas thou saist , being of equal ground with them , can tell them that all their sair pretences , and high expressions , are found to be a covering too short to hide their nakedness and deceit . ans . it is truth we hold forth , and fair pretences is thy own condition , in words , but out of life ; and so thy nakedness is seen to all that fear god , and thy deceitful covering which is now taken off , and thou art manifest , and thou art not upon equal ground with us , who denies christ to be the light. and whereas thou saist , while they call others deceivers , they themselves are the more subtle deceivers . ans . in this thou hast declared thy own condition , for we are saved by christ , and hold him forth , and declare what we have heard and seen , iohn . . and declares aginst all such deceivers as thou art , who is an enemy to man's salvation , christ jesus the light , john . and whereas thou saist , while they call others babylons merchants , and charge them for selling christs , the prophets , and apostles words , they themselves do the some , and that none sells more babylonish then they , nor at higher rates then they , as might be instanced in several persons , that i forbear to mention . ans . we are come cut of babylon where thou art , and all your confusions , and have recived the lord jesus christ , whom we declare freely , as we have received , without money , or price ; and we do abhor thy lyes and slanders , as to declare babylons merchants , and such as makes a trade upon christs , the prophets & apostles words , & then to do the same things our selves , which no honest man can charge us justly with such things , but such as thee , who sells thy self to work wickedness ; and the lord will rebuke thy spirit , for charging that upon his innocent lambs which they are not guilty of ; and we do charge thee to mention those particulars , and their names that hath sold such ware at so great a rate , and what was the rate , and who and what are their names that bought it ? and whereas thou saist , while thou endeavours to discover their deceits , thou intends not to hurt any thing that 's good in them . ans . it is the good in us that thou strikes at , and in that thou hast discovered thy own deceit , as may be seen all along in thy book , together with thy contradictions . and thou saist , hosea . . who so is wise , and he shall understand these things prudent , and he shall know them , for the wayes of the lord are right , and the just shall walk in them . but john wiggan hath fully discovered his foolishness , and that he walks not in the way of the lord , which is light ; for christ saith , i am the light , i am the way , the truth , and the life ? and this light he hath denyed . a postscript . how hath thou lived in sloath and idleness , that thou hast not convinced those that turned from thee , which was thy heareis all these many years , that thou begins but now , alack for thee , they are on a foundation above thee , and so thy sandy foundation , and darkness , and enmity , and making gaine of the apostles and christs words has been thy own condition ; and keeping people alwayes in teaching , that they may alwayes be paying thee ; and now , that thy goin as gone , thou grumbles and mutters against those that be innocent , and judgeth them in the practice of thy self , and so measureth them with by own earthly spirit , and judgeth them with earthly judgment , which cometh not near them . something in ansvver to john wigans appendix , wherein he compares the evil language of the quakers , with the false prophets . answ . to tell a man he is a lyar , if he find him so , is not a mark of a false prophet , for jeremiah did so , jer. . and the apostle was no false prophet when he told them they spake lyes in hypocrisie , tim. . and jeremiah was no false prophet when he said , they bent their tongues like a how , to speak lyes , jer. . nor david was no false prophet when he said , they turned aside after lyes , psal . and the apostle was no false prophet when he said , satan had filled their hearts , act. . as he hath done thine , else would thou not have uttered so many lyes against us ; but we are not afraid of thy reproaches , psal . . . neither do we matter thy mocks , for fools make a mock at sin , prov. . . and knowing that mockers was to come in the last times , jade . though we have undergone the trial of cruel mockings , but god will not be mocked with thy religion and vain words , gal. . for what thou sowest thou must reap , and our words that are spoken to you are truth ; who makes no distinction when the truth speaks to the wickedness , and unrighteous state of man , which the wicked may get the words , as thou dost , and throw upon the righteous . and whereas thou compares us to the false prophets , and the unclean spirits in the revelations , which came cut of the mouth of the dragon , and were proud boasters , false accusers , and incontinent , fierce , despisers of those that are good . answ . john , this is thy own condition , thou hast directly read it ; yet before thou said , thou would learn of us , and thou said they were the better meaning people that came to us , thus thou foamest out thy own shame like unto the raging waves of the sea. and whereas thou saist , we boast of persection and sinless life , and are the servants of corruption . answ . this is false , the lord rebuke thy spirit , for our perfection is in christ , the crown of our rejoycing , who thou saist is an idol ; and christ we serve , and not corruption : and see if any of our friends have spoken such words to thee as thou hast spoken against the truth , and thou denying the spirit and light in men , by which they should see their salvation , thou can be no otherwise but as a wave of the sea , as a well without water , and a cloud without rain ; as in jude : manifest to be in the false prophets steps , tim. . tit. . . pet. . art thou not here in these steps ? evil beasts , slow bellies , &c. all that read the scriptures may see thee . and whereas thou saist , thou hast had converse with several christians in several nations this thirty years . answ . this thou may speak to thy shame , who knows no more of god and christ , then now to call him an idol ; and where did any of all these christians teach thee that christ was an idol ? i do not believe that any sect in all christendome would say so , but thy self ; no not the papists whom thou likens us to , and saith we are as bad : and so thou art like unto them in the revelations , who blasphemeth god and his tabernacle , and them that dwell in heaven . and that which thou did affirm in thy assertion , was contrary to god , christ , scripture and truth , and all people might see them , if there were no answer to them , if they could but read scriptures . and whereas thou saist , it behoved some of them , at least g. f. who was called , as margaret fell affirmeth &c. answ . margaret fell said g. f. was called from his lawful calling , as thou reports ; thou thy self didst report it : that was the occasion of her words , which if it was so , if his calling had been meaner , it was better then butchering people as thou hast done , with the sword ; any of these trades had been better then thine , for thou hast been both a priest , and a butchering major ; so thou might have two trades , and has lost them both , which makes thee ●ail so . alss , for answering thy book it did not so much concern g. f. but many particulars which were some of them miles one off another ; and thy book which we had with much adoe from you , which ye were afraid should have come to the light , it was such a work of darknesse ; and it was but a few dayes time in our hands , which they were not likely to answer it in so short a time , besides called on often to be taken from us , it was an uncertain thing for us to come to answer it , or go about that work , but at last we were fain to take it in pieces , and get it copyed over in pieces , there was such haste with you , and this shews you were afraid to have it answered ; whereof john wigans wife , and some of his mis-led people , made a boast as though we could not answer it , before we could have it , which he hath small reason for , as they that reads it in mecknesse sees his folly , tim. . and that which we writ was true to thy condition , thou hast proved it . and whereas thou art grieved because the goalers and prisoners should see thy fruits laid open , because we sent letters to them to give unto thee , when thou thy self would not take them of us ; and we did not send for our letters again , as thou didst thy book , or some through thy means ; not being afraid who see them or read them . and herein thou condemns thy self , for thou directed thy book to the goaler , and sent it into the towne before it came to us ; so in this thou hast judged thy self , for thou didst not so much as direct that a copy of it should be given to us , and so thou renders thy self both obnoxious and odious in thy book and practice . and what thou hast been is known , and there is things yet to be manifest , which is a shame to mention : and so thou hast thy self begotten in many men a true opinion , that thou art a hainous offender , in speaking such words , and writing such things against christ the light. and we know none that hath sent thee any letters sealed , but there hath been a name subscribed to them . and as for scorning , jearing , and frothy expressions , that 's thy own condition john , and not ours ; and why didst thou not put those letters ( sent without names ) into thy book , that the wise reader might have seen them ( if there were such ) and have judged of them . and as for me thomas curwen , who sent several papers to thee , being burthened with thy wickednesse , who had published thy lies abroad in the name of the lord , and wast ashamed and afraid that we should have them , though thou promised often we should have them in words , and now that we have it , it must but be a fortnight , being a short time for them who are above . miles from one another : and thou hast done unjustly in that thou hast not put down my whole letters , and the occasion of them , for there is no wise man will judge but that there was some reason why i should send such words to thee : and did not froth , and rage , and fury appear in thee , when thou laid violent hands on me , and pull'd my coat like to tare it off my back ? and canst thou lift such unholy hands and fists of wickednesse unto the lord in prayer ? and will god accept thy sacrifice which is like cains ? and when i did peruse thy book , i found it did not prove thy assertion , viz. that christ the light is not saving : it therefore is but as chaff and dirt ; and thou perverts , and wrests , & adds to many scriptures , seemingly to prove thy assertion good , which thou couldst not , for which , i say , the plagues of god shall be added unto thee , according to the scriptures , rev. . to which john wigan , in his wonted fury and rage said , the plagues of god was upon me , and we all spake from the spirit of the devil . yet this man before his companions would seem to be humble , and a meek man , through his feigned words would seem to justifie himself . and for thy sawcy language , and ill-bred behaviour , and unmannerlinesse , if thou had put all my letter down , the reader might have seen why i charge those things upon thee . and therefore i had good ground to speak these words through all thy words and carriages towards me , and also thy abusive and slanderous , and sawcy expressions to my esteemed friend in the truth , m. f. which if thou hadst had either civility , or the reason of a man , or any regard to virtue , thou would have been ashamed to utter or have written such things as thou didst ; but thou hast abused her letters as thou hast done mine , and taken that which thou thinks may be for thy advantage , and wrests our words as thou hast done the scriptures , and left out that in our letters which was the cause we spoke those things unto thee , and plainly shew the cause , which if any desire to know the cause , we have them to shew , for if we should put them in our book they would make it too great a volume , too great , together with thy slanderous letters , and that thou should vomit so many slanders in thy book , which thou would not let us have but only a few dayes , and then thou glories and boasts , in which time thou knew we could not answer them , the particulars concerned in it being so far distant one from another . and john , if thomas curwen husbandman , which is a better calling then thy trade , who hath often been moved of the lord to write to thee , is able to indict letters , having been often burthened with thy hypocrisie and vain deceit , and fleshly performances , which thou hast charged falsely upon me in a letter . and here thou publishes that which thou knows not , slandering us both with that which thou art ignorant of , not knowing but another might do it , and so hast published thy ignorance . dost thou think this will stand amongst wise men ? and thou hast said thou will never learn in my masters school , which is christ the light , nor come to the law which is the schoolmaster until christ , which thou art ignorant of both . and within all this time thou might have answered my queries , if thou had been in the meeknesse , but it is manifest thou art choaked with evil , and envy , and possest with a bitter spirit , that thou hast not power to do good . and as for thy dreaming , it is manifest if thou hadst been awaked , thou would have answered my . queries , and cleared thy assertion , and convict me if i had opposed my self ; but thou hast denyed this office and work , and in stead of giving satisfaction herein , thou hast published thy own shame . i would not have thee to envy me so much , for the good i have to thee , for which of those things dost thou thus deal with me ? is it not because i have told thee the truth ? for which of those good deeds dost thou rail of me so fast ? was it not a good deed , to tell thee thou was a deceiver , knowirg thee to be so ? for now thy fruits makes thee manifest to be a deceiver , and whom thou hast deceived , pet. . mat. . . and whereas thou hast picked a few lines out of james parkes private letter sent unto thee , whom thou seems to pretend love to , and now publishes them , and this was thy love ; was it not time for me to forsake thee , being long deceived by thee , and has known thy principles and thee long , and thy feigned love : but should thou not have put all my letter down , that the reader might have seen it , and judged with thy words , which was the occasion of it : and the words which thou slanderously spoke in secret , but thou wilt manifest thy self , that thy solly may appear , which cannot abide plainnesse ; but my letter is true to thy condition , and thou wilt find it so . and i tell thee it was a fraudulous part of thee to publish a part of my letter , and not all , or other friends letters either , and far off the truth , and below a wise man , but it is well that thou hast published so much as thou hast done , that people may read thy book , and see the words come true upon thee . john wigan , this in answer to part of thy appendix . wherein thou mentions margaret fells letters , and has therein falsifyed my words , as it is the usual manner of thee and such deceivers as thou art , for you do so with the scriptures , who makes a trade of them , and teaches for filthy iucre , you take here a piece , and there a piece , such as will make for your own ends , and for your advantage , and for the setting up of your image you make , and so leaves poor people dark and ignorant of the scriptures , and also of your deceitful dealings with them , and so keeps them in darkness , and preaches unto them , that they must carry a body of fin with them as long as they are upon the earth ; and they are no other like , so long as they that are blind follows thee , and such like that are blind , and so you all go into the ditch together , which is your place , and shuts the kingdom of heaven against men , and neither enters in your selves , nor suffer them that would go in to enter , mat. . . but thou hast intended in taking pieces of my letters here and there to make them seem more odious to the reader , and also thou has intended thereby to cover thy own nakednesse and ignorance of god and his truth , in leaving out the cause and ground of my speaking those words , which is nothing but truth to thee according to the scriptures , where they stand written to thee , though thou endeavours by thy overskipping , and taking words here and there to make them non-sense to the reader ; yet as they stand , and as thou hast set them , any rational man of truth and honesty , that knows what thou hast written and spoken to me and others , will judge them to be truth to thee ; therefore for the further manifestation of thy wickednesse , i shall by plain scripture convince the reader that reads with an impartial eye , and prove thee a blasphemer against god and his truth , as it is in jesus , and when i have done so , then let the reader judge whether thou be not guilty in truth and reality , and of all i have writ to thee . the cause of my first writing to thee was from thy blasphemous book , which thou put out against christ jesus the light , our corner stone , which thou boastingly saies thou strikes at , and i can truly say , and the lord that judges all hearts knows , that i had no delight to meddle with thee , seeing thee a conceited man , only in deceit and ignorance , but i was moved of the lord in the vindication of his truth , to bear my testimony for his truth , and to write to thee , and to leave thee without excuse . ( . ) in thy book thou saith , whoever calls and worships this ( the light in every man ) as the redeemer worships an imaginary and fictious christ , and indeed an idol , and in another place of thy book thou saies , that the light in every man that comes into the world , set up and worshipped in prayers and praises . all the honour and attributes due to the true redeemer alone being ascribed to it , which is an idolatry so much worse then that of jeroboams , or of the papists . in a third place of thy book thou saiest , admit this grand lie for the corner stone , and the whole super structure will consist of lies . these with many other such blasphemous speeches thou hast uttered forth in thy book , which i shall forbear to trouble the reader with , they being answered before . again in thy second letter to me thou hast sent writ these words ; its likely thou hast never been so plainly told that thou sets up an idol , if thou call the light that is in every man that comes into the world , christ the redeemer , and if thou worships that light as the redeemer , that thou art an idolater : it seems by these words , that thou hast writ these words in thy former letter , which i sent back with the answer , and so hath not the words there written here to produce , but here is enough and sufficient to manifest thee an absolute blasphemer against christ and the holy ghost . answ . the light of christ jesus which we bear witnesse of , which hath lighted every man that 's come into the world , is the same light which john bore witnesse of which was a man sent of god for that purpose , before christ jesus came to prepare the way before him as the scripture doth testifie , which prophesied of him before he came , and which prophecies he bore witnesse to when he came , as isa . . , , . the voice of him that cryeth in the wildernesse prepare ye the way of the lord , make straight in the desert the high way of our god. read on to the fifth verse , and malachy the . and . behold i send my messenger , and he shall prepare the way before me , and the lord whom ye seek shal suddenly come to his temple , and according to these prophecies the angel gabriel came to zacharias , and told him that he should have a son , and luke . . and the angel answering said , i am gabriel that stand in the presence of god , and am sent to speak unto thee , and to shew thee these glad tydings , and in the sixth month after the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a virgin , espoused to a man , named joseph , which testified of the birth of christ , as you may read in the of luke at large , and the angel said unto zacharias when he told them of the birth of john , he said , fear not zacharias , for thy prayer is heard , for thy wife elizabeth shall bear a son , and thou shalt call his name john , and thou shalt have joy and gladnesse in him , and many shall rejoyce at his birth , and he shall be great in the sight of the lord , and he shall be filled with the holy ghost ( even this is he that bore witnesse of the light which iohn wigan calls an idol ) from his mothers womb , and after this child was born , his fathers mouth was opened in praises unto the lord , being dumb since the angel spoke to him , because he did not fully believe , and his father zacharias was filled with the holy ghost , and prophesied of christ saying , blessed be the lord god of israel , who hath visited and redeemed his people , and so to the end of the chapter , as you may read , ver . . and the child shall be called the prophet of the highest [ to wit christ ] and thou shalt go before the face of the lord to prepare his waies to give knowledg of salvation unto his people , by the remission of their sins ; and christ himself bore witnesse of john , mat. . and said , he was more than a prophet , and said , of all that were born of women , there was not a greater then john , and said he was a burning and shining light , as you may read . for this is he of whom it is written , behold i send my messenger before thy face , which shall prepare thy way before thee , ver . . and if ye will receive it , this is the elias which was for to come ; for all the prophets and the law prophecyed until john , he that hath an ear to hear let him hear , ver . , , . and the apostle bore witnesse of iohn , and said , as john fulfilled his course acts . he said , whom think ye that i am , i am not he , but there cometh one after me , the shoes of whose feet i am not worthy to loose . thus far we have proved unto you what iohn was , that he was sent of god to bear witnesse of christ by these scriptures , with many more which might be instanced concerning john. now we shall go to johns testimony , and witnesse which he bore of christ jesus , john . in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god , the same was in the beginning with god ; all things were made by him , and without him was not any thing made that was made , in him was life , and this life was the light of men . this is he which john bore witnesse of , this same john came for a witnesse to bear witnesse of this light , that all men through him might believe , as you may see proved by all the foregoing prophecies of him ; he said , he was not the light , but was sent to bear witnesse of the light that was the true light , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world . this is the light and no other which we witnesse , and bear testimony of , which john wigan saith is an idol ; he was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not , but as many as received him , to them he gave power to become the sons of god , even to them that believed on his name , not to such unbelievers as john wigan , who denies him , which was born not of blood , nor of the will of the flesh , nor of the will of man , but of god ; this john wigan calls an idol . and the word was made flesh , and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory , as of the only begotten son of god , full of grace and truth ; john bore witnesse of him , and cryed , saying , this is he of whom i spoke , he that cometh after me , who is preferred before me , ver . . now here the reader may see w's . blasphemies , and lyes in his book where he saith , that the light that john bare witnesse of , that lighteth every man that comes into the world , is the word creator , and not the word made flesh , christ ; so let the reader read john. . , . and this is the record of john , when the jews sent priests and levites from jerusalem , and asked him , who art thou ? and he confessed and denied not , i am not the christ , and they asked him , and said unto him , who art thou ? and he said , i am the v●ice of one crying in the wilderness , make straight the way of the lord , as said the prophet isaiah , john. ver . . they asked him , why baptizest thou then ? and john answered , saying , i baptize with water , but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not , he it is , who coming after me , is preferred before me , &c. jo. . ver . . . here john beares witness of him , according to the prophesies ; the next day john seeth jesus coming unto him , and said , behold the lambe of god which taketh away the sin of the world . this is he of whom i said , after me cometh a man which is preferred before me , for he was before me , ver . . . this is he whom we worship as our redeemer , whom j. w. saith , to worship is to set up a greater idolatry then that of jeroboams , and of the papists , and john saith further , that he should be made manifest to israel , therefore am i come baptizing with water , and john bore record , saying , i saw the spirit descending from heaven like a dove , and it abode upon him , and i knew him not , but he that sent me to baptize with water , the same said unto me , upon whom thou shalt see the spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he that baptizeth with the holy ghost . and i saw and bare record that this is the son of god ; and this is he whom j. w. saith , whoso worships , worships an idol . and the next day john saw jesus walking , and looking upon him said behold the lamb of god ; and so this is a part of johns record and witnesse which he hath borne of the son of god , the light of the world that hath lighted every man that cometh into the world ; with severall more , as the scripture will testifie , who baptizeth with the holy ghost ; and this is he which j. w. desires the people with whom he has to do , and all others with fear and trembling to consider how injurious this opinion is , and how pernicious and destructive such a sandy foundation will prove to pretious soules ; for admit this grand lye for the corner stone , and the whole superstructure will consist of lyes , saith he , and open this as the first door of entrance ( as they do ) and it leads into a babel of confusion and errors ; no sooner is a man entred in at this deadly gate , but he is in the city tohu , where first , if his eyes be anointed with eye salve by the true jesus , he may behold this image of iealousie ( the light that is in every man that comes into the world. ) answ . here i desire the reader but soberly , and seriously to consider of this mans doctrine , and compare it with the foregoing proofes , with what shall be hereafter , and let him judg whether it be not as absolute blasphemie as a man can speak , and that according to the full proofe of the scriptures , for christ jesus . jo. . . where jesus saith , i am the light of the world , he that followeth me shall not abide in darknesse , but have the light of life . and again , in jo. . jesus cryed , and saith , he that believeth on me , believes not on me , but on him that sent me , & he that seeth me , seeth him that sent me . . i am come a light into the world , that whosoever ●eleeveth in me shall not abide in darkness , . and in the . while ye have light , believe in the light , that ye may be children of the light . these words spake jesus , who baptizeth with the holy ghost , which j. w , saith , if this lye for the corner stone , all the superstructure will consist of lyes . if any man walk in the day , he stumbleth not because he seeth the light of the world jo. . . now i desire the reader will seriously consider , whether j. w. be not highly guilty of blasphemy , and one with those pharisees who was grieved when christ wrought miracles , and cast out devils , and turned and converted many unto god , when he entred into the strong mans house , and bound the strong man , and spoiled his goods , ver . . so j. w. is grieved that there should be so many turned unto god , and afraid for the time to come , lost there should be more , and therefore he strikes at christ jesus , the light and corner stone , which he calls a lie , as those pharisees did against christ formerly ; but christs answer is , if i cast out devils by the power of god , then the kingdome of god is come unto you ; else how can one enter , & c ? which j. w. denies , that the kingdome of god should be come unto the pharisees , or unto the world , ver . , . blasphemously against christs own words . but christ saith , all manner of blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men , but the blusphemy against the holy ghost shall never be forgiven ; which j. w. is guilty of , in his wicked blasphemous words and writings , it is past my knowledge how often . and therefore christs words are fully manifested upon him , who saith in the . verse . whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man , it shall be forgiven him , but whosoever speaketh against the holy ghost , it shall never be forgiven him , neither in this world , nor in the world to come , mark . , . luke . . this stands good upon j. w. for ever , if christ be god who baptized with the holy ghost , j. w. is a blasphemer against him . and so i desire the reader to consider without prejudice of what is proved , and furthermore whether he be not one with those jews that were filled with envy when they saw the multitudes , and spake against those things that were spoken by paul , contradicting and blaspheming , acts. . . and also one with elimas the sorcerer who withstood paul , and went about to turn the deputie from the faith . ver . . and also one and the same with those jews whom paul was pressed in spirit to testify unto , that jesus was the christ , and when they opposed themselves and blasphemed , he shook his garment and said unto them , your blood be upon your own heads i am clean , &c. acts. . , . and also whether he be not one of those which the apostle speaks of , in rom. . . thou that teachest another , teachest thou not thy self ? thou that preachest a man should not steal , dost thou steal ? and thou that abhorrest idols , dost thou commit sacriledge ? for thou hast blasphemed against the worthy name of god , the light. rom. . . jam. . . and so now thou art proved such a blasphemer that i am forced to compare thee to the beast spoken of in the revelations : i am sure thou art one that worships him , and gives thy power to him , for thou hast spoken great things and blasphemies against the lord and his anoynted , the light christ jesus . rev. . . and hast opened thy mouth against god , to blaspheme his name , and his tabernacle , and them that dwell in heaven . and so now thou art perfectly proved a blasphemer against god , and now thou mayst see if thou can clear thy selfe of these things , or any that takes thy part against christ the light , who inlightens every man that comes into the world , which john bore witnesse of , and thou hast given thy power to the beast to make warre with the saints . so now i am to prove thee to be a minister of darknesse , who hath affirmed , that the light in every man is not a saving light , which i have proved already is christ jesus , which john bore testimony to the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , and which is the saviour of all mankind , tit. . . . thou hast asserted , that god has not given a measure of the spirit to every man , contrary to the apostle , in cor. . , . who saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal . and thou goest about to make the light of christ jesus , with which he has enlightened every man , a created light , and a dim light , and a natural light ; and spirit of a natural man. and here i shall prove thee an idolater , and a graver up of an image in thy dark divining , where thou art one with all the ministers of antichrist , who studies an image in your brains , and the dark imaginations of your hearts ; for though thou seems to be a separated priest , yet it is but in the sensual , and carnal , and devilish , not in the spirit of god , for thou crucifies that in thy dark deceitful heart , while thou art making and setting up another spirit and light which thou calls natural , and not the light of christ . and here thou art worse then surplice-men , or homily-men , for they will confess that the light in them which shews them sin , is the light of christ ; and yet thou seems to confess that the light in every man is the law written in the heart , and if so , the new covenant . answ . all this heap of confusion which thou hast heaped together , doth but manifest thy darkness , and thou ministers out of it , and art an enemy to the light of christ , and so thou must needs be a minister of darkness . though thou hast been a minister long , i ask thee this question , didst thou ever preach the light of christ to people , or didst thou ever turn peoples minds to the light of christ in their consciences , or didst thou ever turn any from the power of satan to the power of god ? if thou hast , set us out some of thy flock that they may be tryed ? but there are a great deal that will cestifie against thee , that has been of thy flock , that is turned from thy darkness , to the light of christ , which thou art an enemy to , and with it they see thy deceit and darkness , wherein thou didst deceive them , and can praise the lord for ever , that they are turned from thy darknesse . but now for the proof of thy false doctrine . and . is not the light which is in every man , the light of christ that convinceth a man or woman of sin and evil ? and is there another saviour besides christ that takes away the sin of the world ? and what was that image of god in which adam was created ? wilt thou not have christ to be god ? and thou sayes , there remained a part in adam after he had transgressed , which made him hide himself , but thou calls this the spirit of a natural man , and a created light . is the light that is in man a created light ? and is the law which is written in mans heart , and the spirit which is put in the inward parts , created ? and was that image of god which was in adam a created image ? how was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , revel . . . rev. . . but in plain words , did god create any light in the beginning but what he set in the firmament of heaven ? is an invisible light created , which sees god which is invisible ? it s pitty to put these things to thy gross darkness ; but that for the seed's sake it may be serviceable to others . and dost thou say , the law of god that he writes in the heart , and his spirit which he puts in the inward parts , is this a created light ? oh the gross darknesse that is in thee ! how dare thou take upon thee to teach ? is not god light ? and is the image of god in man a created light ? and is that created and natural ? and is not christ light , and his spirit light , and is not the law light , and is not the law spiritual ? and did not moses say to the children of israel , deut. . , , , , & . for this commandement that i command thee this day , is not hidden from thee , neither is it far off , &c. but the word is very nigh thee , in thy mouth and heart , to hear it , and to do it : see , i have set before thee life and death ? was this , that would have led them into life , natural and created ? and is not this law righteous , and spiritual , and just , and good ? as the apostle witnessed of it , act. . . . rom. . . who said , they received the law by the disposition of angels , &c. and did not christ jesus say , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil it ; and that one jot or title of the law should not passe till it was all fulfilled ? and is not christ the end of the law for righteousnesse ? and is this the spirit of a natural man that knows not the things of god , that christ is the end of ? art thou not in this a minister of darknesse , and an idolater ? and doth not the apostle say , rom. . . that they were become dead to the law by the body of christ : wherefore he saith , the law is holy , and the commandment holy , just , and good , ver . . but this dark doctrine of thine , makes thee clearly manifest that thou art in the flesh , and the motions of sin works in thy members , which brings forth fruit unto death , and never knew the life of the law yet , nor the life of the commandment , but art alive without the law , and so art alive unto sin and wickednesse , and knows it not , not having the law to be thy schoolmaster , to correct thee for thy wickednesse , which would revive and set thy sins before thee , that thereby thou wicked might die . but thou has not been at this school yet , for all thy learning and divining it has been all in the darknesse , thou has never come to the law yet which is light , which is the schoolmaster unto christ . this thou sits judge upon , and sayes its spirit of a natural man , and so living without the law , is dead in thy sins and darknesse , and so never knew what it is with thy mind to serve the law of god , as the apostle did , he delighted in the law of god according to the inward man ; but this is too mean for thee , this thou calls created and natural , and so lies drowned in darknesse , and sin and wickednesse , thy mind and all thy members committing sin , and drinks up iniquity as the ox drinks up water . how should thou do other , being thou art an enemy both of christ , and his law , and his light , and his spirit ? and what ? art thou not a minister of darknesse in all this ? and the apostle who was obedient unto the law of god in his heart , and the spirit of god in his inward parts , by this he saw the body of death , which made him to cry out , &c. but he also saw his redeemer christ jesus , for he was a minister of the light , and turned people from the darknesse to the light in them , and so could confesse then , the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus had made him free from the law of sin and death . so the apostle doth not make such a separation bet wixt the law and christ as thou dost , who saist , it is natural and created ; but this is but the judgment of thy dark spirit , for the apostle saith , that god sent his only begotten son in the likenesse of sinful flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh , that the righteousnesse of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , rom. . . god sent forth his son , made of a woman , made under the law , gal. . . i desire the reader to take notice of this mans darknesse and ignorance of this light , and law , and spirit of god , and also of his idolatry , who has made and framed another image which he calls a created light , and a natural light , and a dim light , and the spirit of a natural man. and whether this law and spirit of god , which was given unto the children of israel into their hearts be natural , and also hath been the guide and teacher of his people in all ages ; for christ himself saith unto the jews , it is written in the law , you shall all be taught of god , and the prophet isa . said , that all the children of the lord should be taught of the lord. and how should they be taught , and be established in righteousness , but by the light of righteousness , the righteous law of god written in their hearts ? and this is none of j. w's . molten image which he has set up , which he calls created , and naturall , and dim light , and spirit of a naturall man &c. and so here the reader may read by what is here proved by plaine scripture . j. w. first to be a minister of darkness by his denying the light of christ to be the law of god , the pure new covenant which he hath lighted every man with , and his law which is written in every heart since the new covenant ; and also he may read him an idolater in that he has made a molten and graven image , which he calls created and natural , and the spirit of a man , which is neither light of christ , nor law of god , nor new covenant ; and now i. w. thou hast raced thy self out , both from the knowledge of the law , and the law-giver : so thou art proved , by the plain scriptures of truth , ( ) a blasphemer . ( ) a minister of darkness . ( ) an idolater . ( ) i am now to prove thee an antichrist , which was to come in the last time , which denyes christ come in the flesh . and that is to say , ( ) thou goes about to prove , and has laid it down in thy book , as though christ which lighteth every man that comes into the world , were not god and the new covenant , or covenant of god which was before the foundation of the world. ( ) thou laies down , that christ is not that word and light which john beares witnesse of , but saith , it is the word creator . and , ( ) thou makes a difference between the father and the son , and so sets up two lights , and two words , and so two gods , except thou denyes christ to be god. answ . and first in answer to that thou dost oppose , which is , that christ the light is not gods covenant , was not the covenant which god made with abraham in christ jesus , did not the apostle say the same , gal. . . now to abraham and his seed was this promise made , he saith not unto seeds , as of many , but as of one , unto thy seed which is christ , and this i say , that the covenant that was confirmed before of god in christ , &c. here the aposte doth not say as thou dost , that christ is not gods covenant of light , and also the apostle saith that christ hath redeemed us from under the curse of the law , that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles , here christ brings the gentiles into covenant with abraham and the jews ; but this is a mystery thou never saw ; and is he not the god of abraham , the god of isaac , and the god of jacob , in his everlasting covenant christ jesus : and is not the covenant of the lord with david & his seed for ever in christ jesus ? and hath not the prophet isaiah said in the . and . i the lord have called thee in righteousness , and will hold thine hand , and will keep thee , and give thee for a covenant to the people , and for a light to the gentiles , to open blind eyes , and to bring out the prisoners out of prison , and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house ; who is this that should do this , if it be not christ jesus , whom wilt thou have it to be ; and again , isa . . . it is a light thing that thou should be my servant to raise up the tribes of jacob , and to restore again the preserved of israel , i will also give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou mayest be my salvation to the ends of the earth , who is this thinkest thou ? this torments thee , this that reaches unto all the ends of the earth ; light shining in all , this torments thy dark spirit , thou makes accompt in thy book this is a created light as thou saist in thy book , where thou quotes rom. vers . , , . who hath the law written in their hearts , which accuses or excuses them in the day when god shall judg the secrets of men by jesus christ , according to my gospel : let the reader judge whether this be a natural created light , which judges the secrets of mens hearts by jesus christ ; is not this gods new covenant of light to the gentiles , which he has written in their hearts : and doth not the apostle say in hebr. . . speaking of the old covenant and priesthood , but now hath he obtained a more excellent ministery , and by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant , which is established upon better promises , is not this christ ? for the jews broke their covenant and their law that was written in tables of stone , which gendered to bondage , and there was then a law added because of transgression , until the seed christ came , gallat . . . yet the promise and covenant that was made to abraham in christ jesus stands still , and is the same , and cannot be disanul'd , as the apostle saith , gal. . , , . hebr. . . the law that was added . years after the promise was made , could not disanul it , for the apostle saith , if the first covenant had been faultless , then there had been no place found for the second , and so this is the covenant of god , writing his law in their hearts , and puting his spirit in their inward parts , for the jewes had outward laws written in tables of stone , which laws they broke , but now christ jesus the everlasting covenant of god , which is light made unto abraham never can be broken , but is an everlasting light in the hearts of his people , and an everlasting law written in their hearts , and an everlasting covenant of life and peace , and so brings all into unity and fellowship , for there is neither jewes nor greeke , there is neither bond nor free , there is neither male nor female , for they are all one in christ jesus , and if they be christs , then they are abrahams seed , and heires according to the promise , gal. . , . and so here thou art proved thus far an antichrist , and a denyer of christ jesus ( the light ) to be gods covenant , who according to the flesh is the son of abraham , the son of david , rom. . , , . and according to the spirit the son of god , paul was made a minister of that gospel which was promised . but these things is a mystery to thee , and thou knows nothing of them but what thou knowes naturally as a bruit beast , for thou cannot believe the apostles testimony that he gives in the . of the acts , when he is speaking of saul , vers . . and when he had removed him , to wit saul , he raised up david to be their king , to whom he gave testimony , &c. of this mans seed hath god according to his promise raised , vers . , unto israel a saviour jesus , when john had preached before his coming ; and as john fulfilled his course , he said , whom think ye that i am , &c. men and brethren of the stock of abraham , and whosoever among you that feareth god , to you is the word of this salvation sent , vers . . so let the reader read this portion of scripture , and see whether christ jesus be not gods covenant of light , and promise unto abraham , and unto david , and also whether this be not that which john bore testimony of , and so now thou art sufficiently proved thus far , not only a breaker of gods covenant and promise unto abraham and his seed for ever , in whom the apostle saith , all the promises of god are yea and in him amen , cor. . the next is , wherein thou has denyed christ to be that word which john beares witness to , which was in the begining with god saying , the neglect of this distinction of the word creator , and the word made flesh , is the ground of the great mistake of many , thou saist , who not considering what is testified of the word as creator , do confound that light which is set up by him in every man , with that light which he gives , as he is the word made flesh , and so calls that light saving , which is but natural , springing up with him in his creation , yea hence they call that light christ , which is but the law written in the heart . answ . i desire the reader to read over the st . of john , and seriously consider what distinctions he findes made there from the word that was in the begining , and the word that 's made flesh , and the light that lightens every man that 's come into the world , and whether all these be not christ , which john beares witnesse of , and whether john and the spirit of god , there have separated them as the blacknesse and darknesse in j. w. hath done ; and let the reader judge whether this man be not possest with an inchanting spirit of sorcery , and witch-craft , and even as it were given up to work wickednesse to his own destruction , being filled with envy and malice against the truth , which has overthrown his rotten and sandy foundation , and causes him so to rage , that he even blasphemes against the god of heaven , that he even dares to separate the god-head , and would not have christ jesus to be the true light and word of god , which was in the begining , in whom the fulnesse of the god-head dwells , and that bodily , gal. . . and so as thou hast denyed christ to be the covenant of god , thou has also denyed him to be the word of god , and also has denyed him to be the light that lighteth every man that comes into the world , and so has denyed his god-head as he is a saviour , by which all the fathers were saved , and dyed in the faith of him , and the patriarchs , and the prophets that had his word in their hearts , and thou has denyed him to be the light of israel , and thou has denyed him to be the first fruits of them that sleep , and the first begotten from the dead , and the first born of every creature , thou has denyed his very life and substance , and the laying of his life down thou has denyed , for thou said , he denyed faith to some , and one of thy brethren said , that his blood was not shed for all ; and thus you spake despight against the spirit of grace , and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , and so christ is of little value to you , and you are not worthy of him , but for the seeds sake , and that people may not be blinded with thy wickedness and blindness , and darkness , and that people may come to an understanding of the truth . i desire the reader seriously to consider these following proofes , that is to say , first of john , that word which was in the beginning with god , by which all things was made and created , which was before man was made or created , and was glorified with the father before the world began , whether this be not the word christ the saviour of mankind according to the apostles words in the . of heb. . ver . and so on , hath in these last dayes spoken unto us by his son , whom he hath appointed heir of all things ; by whom also he made the world , &c. and whether this son of god by which all things was made and created , is not the saviour and the word in the beginning , and the redeemer of all mankind , and whether the word which moses spoke of to the children of israel , deut. . . when he said , the word is very nigh thee , in thy heart & mouth , that thou may do it ; and said then , he had set life and death before them ; which the apostle in the . of hebrews bears testimony to , who saith , christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes : and when he rehearses moses words he saith , who shall ascend into heaven , that is to bring christ down from above , or who shall descend into the deep , that is to bring christ up again from the dead : but what saith it , the word is nigh thee in thy mouth , and in thy heart ; this is the word of faith which we preach , that if thou shall confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and believe in thy heart that god has raised him from the dead , thou shall be saved . doth not the apostle say , that this lord jesus is the word , this is the doctrine the apostle preached the same word in the heart , as moses did ; but , i. w. denies this doctrine , and this word , and this jesus , that is very nigh in the heart , that preaches righteousness , he preacheth him afar off , it vexeth him to hear of him nigh in his heart , for his heart is filled with hypocrisie and darkness , and gods word and witness lyes slain in him ; and so all his preaching is of christ without him crucified at jerusalem , but he knows him not , nor where he is , and so all his separation is but in the darkness , talking of a christ without him , and denying gods covenant of light within , isa . . . and denying christ the word in the heart , which was that which the apostle preached ; and likewise the apostle peter , acts. . . the word which god sent unto the children of israel , preaching peace by jesus christ , the word i say you know , which was published throughout all judea after the preaching of the baptisme of john , and hew god anointed jesus christ , &c. vers . . to him all the prophets gave witness , and while peter spoke these words , the holy ghost fell on all them that heard the word . and what word was this they heard when the holy ghost fell on them , was it not the word the apostle preached christ ? oh , thou enemy of god , how should christ be preached , if that word which the apostles preached was not christ , and were not they the ministers of the gospel and of the spirit , cor. . . but as god is true our word towards you was not yea , and nay , for the son of god jesus christ who was preached amongst you by us , even by me , and silvanus and timotheus was not yea , and nay , but in him was yea . here the apostle clearly manifests that the word which they preached was the son of god christ jesus ; and was not the word of reconciliation which the apostle preached , was not this christ ; doth he not say , all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ , and hath given unto us the ministry of reconciliation , to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them ; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation , and we are embassadours for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christs stead be ye reconciled unto god , for he hath made him to be sin for us that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . this message is a torment to j. w. he is none of those embassadours , he carrieth no such message as this , this is contrary to his doctrine , for he will not have god and christ to be one , nor he will not have the world reconciled , for he saith , the light that lightens them is not saving ; and how can they be reconciled unto god , if they be not saved from their sin ? he makes account that christs blood is not shed for all ; and the apostle saith , he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world ; but j. w. saith , that this word is not christ , and the apostle did commend those that he preached to , and committed them to the word of his grace , which is able to build them up , and to give them an inheritance among all them that are sanctified . but for the readers satisfaction , we shall prove something out of the old testament ; did not abraham see christs day , and was glad , and believed , and it was counted to him for righteousness ; was not this by christ the word , which was in the beginning with god , who said , before abraham was i am ; did not moses write of him , as christ saith , and saith , a prophet shall the lord your god raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me , him shall you hear in all things . did not moses see this by the word that was in his heart , which he preached to them ; and did not david prophesie and saw christ set up a king upon the holy hill of zion , and said , he would declare the decree of the lord , the lord hath said unto me , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee , aske of me and i will give thee the heathen for thy inheritance , and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession , psal . . but j. w. would not have christ to have none of these , nor such large possessions , he will not have him the light , nor saviour of the world , nor have the heathen for his inheritance , and david saw christ a priest for ever after the order of melchisadecke , and did he not see this by the word that was in his heart , that was a light unto his pathes , and a lanthorn unto his steps , and he said , he had hid his word in his heart , psal . . and thy word is sweeter then the honey or the honey-combe : and solomon saith , pro. . . the lord possessed me in the begining , i was set up from everlasting , from the begining , or e're the earth was , was not this the word that was in solomon's heart , from the begining , and the word that isaiah the son of amos saw concerning juda and jerusalem , it shall come to passe in the last dayes , that the mountain of the lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains , isay . from the . vers . to the . where he saith , oh yee house of jacob come yee and let us walke in the light of the lord , was not this the light of christ , by which he saw the mountain of the lords house that was to be in the last dayes , and was not this the word christ that was in the prophet , who said that their root should be rottennesse and their blossomes should goe up as dust , because they have cast away the law of the lord , and despised the holy one of israel , which law the prophet saw goe out of sion , and the word of the lord from jerusalem , was not this christ jesus the light , and word of god , and the lord sent a word unto jacob , and it lighteth upon israel , and is not this christ jesus gods covenant . and the prophet isaiah , when he spoke to the people , he told them their eares should hear a word behind them , when they turned to the right hand , or to the left , and their eyes should see their teacher , and he should never more be removed into a corner , and who is this that is given for a leader , and a guider , and teacher , is not this christ that the prophet calls to , when he saith , ho , every one that thristeth come and buy , &c. where he saith , incline thine ear and thy soul shall live , and i will make an everlasting covenant with thee , even the sure mercies of david : is not this in christ , and is not this call to every one that will come and incline their ear to the light of christ in their hearts and consciences , and hearken to the word in their hearts , which is given for a leader and a teacher of all people ; but , such ministers of darkness as j. w. never directed to this teacher and so keeping them in darkness , keeps them in sin , in wickedness , but the lord is coming , and is come already , blessed be his name , to redeem , and has redeemed many thousands out of their mouthes , and from under the tyranny of the oppressor which they have long kept poor people in , and ier. . . where ieremy said , thy word is myjoy , and the rejoycing of my heart . was not this word light in his heart , which is sown for the righteous , and joy for the upright in heart ? and again , ier. . . but his word was in my heart as a burning fire , shut up in my bones , and i was weary with forbearing , and i could not stay . and again , ier. is not my word like a fire , saith the lord , and like a hammer that breaks the rocks in pieces , chap. . . did not all these prophets and holy men of god speak and prophesie with many more , which the scripture makes mention of , from the word of god in their hearts that was in the beginning ; has thou not here denyed the emanuel , god with us , that the prophet isay testified of ; and so has denyed christ come in the flesh , whereby thou has clearly manifested thy self to be an antichrist indeed , for thou hast set thy self to oppose christ ; for , christ jesus himself when he preached to the multitude , he said , mat. . . &c. a sower went out to sow , and the seed that he sow'd was the word of god , and the field that he sow'd in was the world , and the ground that brought forth fruit to god was the honest and good heart . and he saith again , ye are clean thorow the word , &c. ioh. . . and again , sanctifie them thorow thy truth , thy word is truth , ioh. . . and again , heb. . who being the brightness of his glory , and the express image of his person , and upholding all things by the word of his power , when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of the majesty on high , was not this christ . but thou wilt say , it may be , if he be of the majesty on high , he is not in the hearts of people then . thy blindness , darkness , and ignorance of god looks so ; but , the apostle peter his exhortation was , that as new born babes , they should desire the sincere milk of the word , that they might grow thereby . and the apostle james exhorted them , to receive with meekness the ingrafted word which is able to save the soules , chap. . . and again , in peter epist . . . behold i lay in zion a chief corner-stone , elect , & pretious , and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded , unto you therefore which believe , he is pretious , but unto them which be disobedient , the stone which the builders disallowed the same is made the head of the corner , and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence , even to them that stumble at the word , being , disobedient , whereunto also they were appointed , pet. . , . now i. w. thou art this man , for thou has stumbled at the word , and art fallen , and shall never rise again , this stone shall grind thee to powder ; this is our corner-stone , which thou sayes , thou will confound ; but , the apostle sayes , he that believeth in him ( and we believe in him therefore ) shall never be confounded ; and so here thou will be found a lyer : and thou saith in thy book , thou will remove our foundation , which is the light in every man ; which is sufficiently proved , that it is christ jesus the foundation of all the prophets and apostles ; and here thou strives with that which is too strong for thee , the weighty stone must needs fall upon thee . and in pet. . . where peter exhorted them to take heed to the more sure word of prophesie , and to the light that shined in a dark place , and to the day-star that would arise in their hearts ; but thy dark preaching is contrary to that ; and joh. . . that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen without eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life , &c. let the serious reader but read this chapter , and see if by it he may not in his own understanding judge of the wickedness of this man , and also in the . chap. where the apostie saies , he writes no new commandement unto you , but an old commandement which ye had from the beginning , the old commandement is the word which ye have heard from the beginning . again , a new commandement i write unto you , which thing is true in him , and in you , because the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth . here the apostle manifesteth the word and the light to be one , in that he writes unto them in the word , and in the light that now shines , glory be to the lord for evermore , which the whole power of darkness hath long mustered up and stood against ; but he that is upon the white horse , who is called faithful and true , in righteousness he doth judge and make war , his eyes are as a flame of fire , and upon his head many crownes , he was cloathed in a vesture dipt in blood , and his name is called the word of god , rev. . , , . now i have done with thee as concerning this head , and thou will find that this word will judge thee in the last day , who hath punctually denyed christ jesus to be the word of god , which is his name , so he stands upon thee thy condemner for ever , and so thereby thou art manifest to be the antichrist . so the next head that i am to manifest to the reader , is , that thou makes a distinction of god and christ , and through thy denying of christ to be the light that comes into the world , and thereby denies christ to be come in the flesh , and thereby art the antichrist ; for thou saith , that christ is not the word and light which john bears witness of , but saist , it is the word creator ; and so makes a difference betwixt the father and the son , and so art just in the arrians principle in dividing the father and the son , which brought in heresies of old into the churches ; and contrary unto the angels testimony unto joseph and mary , who said , she should bring forth a son , and shall call his name jesus , for he shall save his people from their sins ; that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet , saying , behold a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son , they shall call his name emanuel , which being interpreted , is , god with us . and so contrary to this , thou would divide christ and god. so here thou hast denyed christ of his propriety in the father , and hast blasphemed against the god-head , contrary to christ his own words , who said , i and my father are one ; and so here thou has joyn'd with the jewes in taking up stones to stone him with . and also , in the . of iohn and the . ver . and yet if i judge , my judgment is true , for i am not alone , but i and my father that sent me . and again , in the . of iohn and the . ver . believes thou not that i am in the father , and the father in me the words that i speak , i speak not of my self , but the father that dwelleth in me , doth the works ; believe me that i am in the father , and the father in me . and in the . vers . before , philip saith , shew us the father , and it sufficeth us , iesus saith unto him , hast thou not known me philip ? he that hath seen me hath seen the father . and again , ioh. . . keep them thorow thy own name , that they may be one as we are : and again verse . that they may be all one as thou o father art in me , and i in thee , i in them and thou in me , that they may be made perfect in one . and so thou that hast divided the son from his father , and the saints from them both ; thou hast committed sacriledge indeed , who has denyed the great work of salvation and redemption of mankind , which the apostle admired at , that god should send his only begotten son into the world , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life . but this christ thou has gain-said , and resisted , and denyed , and so is never like to have benefit by him , but he will be thy condemnation for ever . and here thou hast fulfilled old simeons prophesie in the d . of luke , vnto whom it was revealed by the holy ghost that he should not see death before be had seen the lords christ , who took him in his armes and blessed god ; and said , lord , now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace according to thy word , for mine eyes have seen thy salvation which thou hast prepared before the face of all people , a light to lighten the gentiles , and the glory of thy people israel ; and behold , this child is set for the fall and rising of many in israel , for a signe which shall be spoken against . and here thou art the man that has set thy self against him , and is fallen , and so has denyed christs coming in the flesh , and also has denyed god being in christ reconciling the world unto himself ; which the apostle said , tim. . . was a great mystery , god manifested in the flesh , justified in the spirit . and so thou that denies the light of christ , and his spirit , which opens and reveales the mystery , thou art not like but to be ignorant who has denyed christ in his god-head , ioh. . . for the apostlesaith , there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost , and these three are one ; and this record thou has denyed , for first thou has denyed christ to be the word ; and secondly , thou has denyed christ to be one with the father ; and so thou has denyed christ to be god , except thou will have two gods , for thou has created already two lights , and two words ; thou will neither have christ to be the light of the world , nor thou will not have him to be the word which was in the beginning with the father ; nor thou will not have him to be gods covenant of light with abraham and his seed ; and also , the promise of god unto adam , where the lord said , the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents head . and now let the reader judge whether thou be not a perfect antichrist , who hath denyed christ come in the flesh , both in his light , wherewith he lightens all people that comes into the world. secondly , he denies him to be the word which was in the beginning , by which all things was made and created , which is the word the apostle directed people to in their hearts , rom. . . thirdly , he denies him to be come in the covenant of god , which is light , by which he reconciles all things to himself , both of things in heaven , and of things in earth , ephes . . . and fourthly , thou has denyed him to be one with his father ; and so i believe here the reader will confess that j. w. is perfectly proved an antichrist ; for the apostle saith , joh. . . every spirit that confesseth not that jesus christ is come in the flesh is not of god , and this is the spirit of anti-christ , whereof you have heard should come , and now is in the world. and again in the ep. of john and the . many deceivers are entred into the world , who confess not that jesus christ is come in the flesh , this is a deceiver and an antichrist . and so as for i. vv. he doth not only not confess christ , but hath denyed christ to be come in the flesh , as hath been manifestly proved , and so is he of whom the apostle saith , vvhosoever transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrine of christ hath not god , but he that abideth in the doctrine of christ hath both the father and the son. here the apostle joynes them together , and puts them not asunder , as i. vv. doth ; and therefore , we are not to receive him into our houses , neither bid him god speed , but deny him as he hath denyed christ , and has proved himself an antichrist compleat . and whereas thou speakes in thy book , that multitudes are ensnared for want of dividing , or making distinctions between god and christ , and brings the of peter . . many shall follow their pernitious wayes . answ . let the reader read the portion of scripture ; in his own judgment , and truth of his heart , let him judge whether this scripture be not a true character of thee , and thy generation of priests , or whether he can judge the quakers to be such a people as this scripture holds forth , and by this he may judge the falsity of thy judgment , and thy envy and malice , which breaks forth in lying ; the next words following are , many shall follow their pernitious wayes , by reason of whom the way of truth is evil spoken of , and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandize of you ; who is this the quakers , or it is i. w. and his company of priests ? thou breakes off betime , if thou had written any further in peter , it would have come upon thy own head ; but there is a verse before , which saith , that there would be false prophets that would bring in damnable heresies , even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . here thou art perfectly set forth , for i believe never any denyed him more wickedly then thou hast done , as is manifestly proved , and so art that false prophet there spoken on . but again , verse . they were such as followed the way of balaam , for the wages of unrighteousness , art not thou one of these ? again there were such as walked after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness , must not thou needs be he who denyes the light that manifests sin and uncleanness , thorough the obedience of which they may be preserved out of it ; but they were to receive the reward of unrighteousness , and so wilt thou , who art reserved unto the day of judgment to be punished . and now thou being thus manifested and proved to be what is before mentioned , that the words in my letters will fall of necesity upon thee , though thou have endeavoured to cover thy self by thy setting my words in thy own frame , and thereby to make them seem as if they were railing speeches , and spoken without ground . and . where as thou saith , that i writ in my letter to manifest thy gain-saying spirit core - like , let the readers judge whether this be not manifestly proved upon thy head before in gain-saying the truth christ , who is the light that lightens every man , &c. ly . thou saist i said , thou art without god in the world , my words are thus , the light in every one as it is obeyed , makes the separation from the world , which light thou denyes , and so art without god in the vvorld , who is light , and in him is no darknesse at all . ly . thou saist i said , thou hast manifested thy self to be out of the first step that leads to christianity , and art a priest of darknesse , these words are true upon thee , for the light christ jesus , the vvord ( which thou hath denyed ) is the entrance into life , and christ is the vvay , the light , and the truth , and the dore , which thou hast denyed , and so by christs own words , thou art a thief that enters not in at the dore , the light , but climb'st up another way , jo. . and so thy prayers , and all thy fleshly performances must need be abhominable , who art without the dore , christ the light , amongst the theeves and robbers , and of thy commiting sacriledge , that is proved before sufficiently , and also thy blaspheming against the holy spirit of god ; there needs no more to be said to that , it is sufficiently proved before . and in my second letter thou saith . i said thou begins with a lye , and ends with the devil , and sets j. w. next to him . thy own letter which thou sent to me , which i sent thee back again , will testifie that to be true , as it is there written . and is thou offended that i should mention thy own words to thee , art thou ashamed of them now , and art thou offended at me because i writ of that which thou had writ with thy own pen , thou art so muddeld that thy own actions torments thee . ly . thou saist , i spoke of thy black defiled heart and conscience : answ . they are so , and blackness and darkness thou art filled with , who doth deny and gain-say the light of christ in thy own conscience , and that is the cause thou art such an inveterate enemy against christ , the light , in every man , but his witness in thy own conscience will be a worm that will gnaw thee , and fire that will never be quenched one day , though thou make slight of it now : but did not thou say in a letter to me , thou had received my blacke lines , not that i writ these words to thee , rendering railing for railing , but my words are true upon thee in thy present condition . ly . thou saist i said thou was a child of darkness , what hast thou to do to take the name of god and christ in thy mouth , thou enemy of god. answ . my words are these , thou enemy of god that knowes him not , whom none knowes but the father , and none knowes the father but the son , and whom the son reveales him to , and thou that hath not a revelation of him art a thief , that takes his name in thy mouth , but the cause of my writing these words was , that thou had writ in thy letter to me , that i ought not to judge before christ iesus be revealed . ly . thou saith i said , thou art no believer in christ , thou art yet in thy sins , &c. answ . but my words are these ( thou said ) thou was in the light of christ that enlighteneth all believers , and my answer to those words was , thou art no believer of christ that abides not in his doctrine , for they that believes abides not in darknesse , where thou art , but is past from death to life , which thou art an enemy to ; and therefore do not deceive thy self , for thy hope will perish , and thy faith is vain , thou art yet in thy sins , and art thou offended because i said thou art yet in thy sins , and is it not thy doctrine that none can be free from sin while they are upon the earth , and art thou not a sinner , that 's proved a blasphemer against god. ly . thou said i said , thou was a man separated from god. answ . by his light , which thou art an enemy to . ly . thou sayes i said , thou never knewest nothing of the worship of god. answ . my words were these , god is not worshiped but in his spirit which reveales him , and so thou that has not the revelation , thou never knew the worship of god. ly . thou sayest i said , thou envious poysenous heart . answ . but my words are these , and for thy uncivil termes that thou has invented out of thy envious poysenous heart , as calling me the vvhore of babilon , and a woman drunk , and iessabel , with many other such like termes as these ; and so now the reader may see thy deceitfull and theevish dealing , though thou would hide and cover thy self , this manifests thee to be a child of darkness indeed . thou art ashamed of thy own words , and conceales them for these forementioned termes . thou writ to me in thy letter , when thou was drunk with fury , and takes mine in peeces , and perverts them , and belyes them , if thou had had any dram of honesty , thou might have set some of thy own foule words down which thou writ to me , or at least have set mine down in order as they were writ to thee , but to wrest , and pervert , and lye for thy own ends and advantage , has been the trade thou has followed all thy life time with the scriptures . ly . thou saist i said , thou art under the chain of it , it is over thee , a fighter against god and his truth , and the reward thou will be sure to have , and never look that that which is cursed will be blest . but thou hast left these words out , and thou hast preached another gospel then the apostles did , this thou hast left out , thou art accursed , and no other portion can thou have , and this is scripture and truth to thee . in my third letter thou saist i said , thou can do something in writing a book of thy own dreames , and thy imaginations and brain studies , and telling of lyes , which thou hatcheth out of darkness , but thou art a meer sot and ignoramus , thy evil and unclean heart , thy malitious , darke , envious spirit , thy weakness , inability and ignorance in the things of god , but my third letter began thus , j. w. thou has now made a poor end of thy boasting words , and thy assertion thou hath very meanly proved . thus far , and thy way of answering thus far , for what is written to thee manifests thy weakness , and ignorance , and darkness sufficiently , thou can do something in writing a book of thy own dreames , and thy imaginations , and brain studies , and telling of lyes and stories which thou hath hatched out of darkness , when there is none to contradict thee ; but to answer any thing which is plain truth and scripture , thy spirit and doctrine , and practice is so contrary to the truth , and the spirit of god that gave forth the scriptures , in this thou art a meer sot and ignoramus , and so framed thy answers of lyes , scandals and reproaches , and foule language , which comes out of thy evil unclean heart , for if any man should but read my two papers which i have written to thee , and thy answer of them , they may thereby read thy malitious , darke , envious speeches , and also thy weakness , inability , and ignorance of the things of god. and again thou saith , i having told her , that if she called the light that is in every man that comes into the vvorld christ , she set up an idol , and if she worshiped that light as christ , she was an idolater ; she answered thus , i never heard such words but from an infidel , and an idolater , and a blasphemer against god and christ : thou art an enemy of god , thou art worse then the jewes , thou art a fit man to joyne with the turk to set up mahomet , oh thou infidel , oh thou child of darkness . my answer to his was thus , i did never hear such words but from an infidel and a blasphemer against god and christ ; and i do not know that ever i heard any that ever owned the scriptures to be true , that ever denyed so much of the truth there written , as thou hast done , never take christ iesus into thy mouth , who hath said himself he is the light , thou enemy of god , thou art worse then the jews that denies he is come , thou art a fit man to joyne with the turk to set up mahomet ; dost thou think that christ hath many such enemies as thou in england ? oh thou infidel ! who wilt thou have for thy redeemer , wilt thou not have him that is come a light , who hath said , while you have the light believe in the light , that you may become the children of the light ; oh thou child of darkness , what dost thou believe in ? where will thou appear when the righteousness of god is revealed in flames of fire upon the head of the wicked ? then thou will know revelation , which thou dost not yet . and again thou saith , speaking of christ , she saith i am a witness for him against all such antichrists , and deceivers , and blasphemes , as thou art , thou art a minister of the night , and of the darkness in the apostacy , thou art a night bird , the curse and the judgments that 's written therein , ( speaking of the scriptures ) christ jesus and the apostles hath pronounced it upon thee , thou art the man. my answer was , and is thus , where thou saith in thy letter to me , if ever i was of good savour , i have lost it by the abuse of the 〈◊〉 jesus , and miserable wresting of the scriptures . my ans . was , i am a witness for him , he hath raised me up from the death to the eternal life , which is the record and image that i bear of him , and for him against all such antichrists and deceivers , and blasphemers as thou art , which john saw was entring into the world in his day and time ; which spirit of antichrist hath lived in you and amongst you untill this day , and hath descended upon you from generation to generation in this dark night of apostary , and thou that art a minister of the night , and of the darkness in the apostacy , thou art now tormented that the light is come , and the day hath sprung from on high upon thousands , glory be to the lord for evermore ; so that many can say , that the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth , and this torments thee , who is a night bird. and whereas thou saist in thy letter to me , i wrest the scriptures . my answer was , and is , my paper where it stands will testifie against thee to be a lyer , where the plain scripture is set down without any wresting , and the curse and judgment that is therein written , christ jesus and the apostle hath pronounced it upon thee , and thou art the man which is guilty of the same , which they are pronounced against , and thou cannot hide thy self from them , thou wilt be sure to find them true upon thee one day , when thou cannot cover thy self , as thou hast endeavoured to cover thy nonsence with my name . and again thou saist , because i asked this question , thou asked me , what parish priest in england had got more money with his tongue then george fox had done since he was journey-man shoomaker in manchester ; and where thou saist , my answer was , thou art a wicked , proud , disdainful spirit , a heathenish spirit which torments thee and many more such night owles as thou art . let the reader judge whether thou be not a wicked lyer in these words thou hast set down , and whether my answer in my letter was as thou hast set them down , for in thy letter to me , thy words stands thus , i think thou would not take it wel that thy friend g. f. should be call'd a priest ; and yet what parish priest in england has gotten more money with his tongue then he . where thou said , i would not take it well if my friend g. f. should be call'd a priest . my answer was thus , he was never of such a deceitful trade as to cheat people of their money , or to make people believe that he would bring them to god , and yet keep them in darkness and sin , and preach down the light of jesus , which they should believe in , joh. . as thou and such deceivers hath done ; for he was of an honest true calling , according to thy report , and he was called from it of the lord into his work and service , as the apostle was , and to lay open , and manifest such deceivers as thou art , &c. and here i charge thee to be an open and manifest lyer to all that reads these foregoing words , who hath set down in the first page of thy appendix , that m. f. affirmeth that g. f. was called from the shoomakers trade . now let the reader see whether ever i mention that g. f. was a shoomaker , for if i had , i had spoken that i did not know , and has thou that boldness and impudence as to say , i affirm , when i do but answer to thy words , and according to thy report he was of an honest trade , and that he was called of the lord unto his work and service , i am a witness , and many thousands more , glory be to the lord for evermore ; which is the cause of thine and many such night birds of your torment , and makes you fret your selves , and curse your king and your god , and looks into the earth , but beholds nothing but trouble and anguish , isa . . , . and this is your portion that is come upon you . and whereas thou saist , i said thou was an impudent , a wicked , ungodly lyer , thou lyer , a proud disdainful spirit , a heathenish spirit which torments thee , and many more such night owles as thou art . my answer is this , thou said g. f. is not as he was when he first came to lancaster : my answer was , thou lyer make it to appear , wherein did thou see him then what he is not now , is this the answering of the letters that was sent to thee to turn into lying and slandering , and villifying ; this is like thy frothy spirit indeed , that instead of answering my papers , thou tells of g. f. that he is not as he was before as above , and why art thou so envious and malitious against g. f. whereas thou saist i call'd thee a heathenish spirit , thou said in thy letter , thou hadst read of a monk , and tells a story about him , my answer was further , such things is the fittest for thy heathenish spirit to read on , thou hath more knowledge and unity with them then thou hath with the scriptures , and the spirit of god that gave them forth ; therefore it is time for thee to give over deceiving the people , and making a trade of tradesmens words , ( which was the saints ) for thy belly , &c. this thou would shufle off instead of answering me , and whereas thou saist further in thy letter , what parish priest in england hath got more money then he , my answer was , here thou art a wicked , ungodly , impudent lyer , and i charge thee to bring one man in england that will say they gave him one shilling for teaching , or else let thy mouth be stopped for ever , if thou do not send some particular whom he hath taken money of , or else thou manifests thy self to be an envious spirited man , and i shall look upon thee to be so , &c. and the lye remains upon thee . and thou said further in thy letter , that g. f. having caught the fish , is likely will cast off his leather-cloathes . my answer was , he was moved to put them on , when he went to cry against such bryery spirits as thine , and thou may see his leather-cloathes yet , if thy pride and envy will suffer thee , thou thinks he has gotten as much with his leather-cloaths as thou hast done in thy chappels , shops , and with thy leather belt , he hath caught that which torments thee , and many more such night owles as thou art ; who hath fished long , but it hath been in the night , and so thou hath catch'd nothing , but thy own gain thou counts for godliness . and whereas thou said in thy paper , that the quakers trade is a very gainful way , which hath gained multitudes to the likeing of them even for advantage sake . my answer was , the multitudes that is gained torments thee , because it manifests thy dry , husky , false , deceitful ministry , which hath beat thybrains all thy days to feed the swine with , i believ thy flock would soon be counted that thou hath gathered , for babilon is loosing her children dayly , praises to the lord for ever , and the spirit and the bride saith come and see , those that gathers multitudes to the lord , is like to vex and torment thee ; but what gain or advantage hath the quakers got , thou wicked lyar , except thou counts whippings , prisons , stockings advantage , and the spoiling of their goods , and rifling of their houses , and stealing their corn , as many of thy generation hath-done ; and now thou art out of power , now thou smitest with thy slanderous tongue , with lies slanders , and false accusations ; but thou sayes thou aimes at a greater thing then getting money in opposing the quakers , which is the glory of thy god , which is the devil , the god of the world is thy god , and thou hath done what thou canst in opposing the quakers to get him glory , but now is the time that both thou and he is judged , and cast out , blessed be the lord , and the son of man who is the light and truth , and way to god christ jesus is lifted up from the earth , which shall draw all men after him , and him thou villifies , blaspheames , and speaks against , and so thou is like to speak against us that beares testimony for him . and whereas thou saist in thy appendix , that i said thou hast a great measure of the spirit of envy , malice , and cruelty , and blood . and thou said in thy letter to me , thou hath a true measure of the spirit , and aime of that envy and malice , &c. my answer was , thou hath a great measure of the spirt of envy , malice , cruelty and blood , and thou hast done well to confess it , but there is none of this in my lines , but the very plain truth to thee , and upon the which is thy condemnation for ever , this stands upon thy head , and thou canst not get from under it , and so here is an end of the substance of my letters which he mentions here a word , and there one in his appendix , some of them being an answer to two letters he sent to me . and here the reader may read the folly and ignorance of this man how he glories in his own shame , and who speaks great swelling words of vanity , and has manifested his own shame , j. w. so long as thou has made a cover for thy self of lyes and false accusations to hide thee under , which is all the refuge thou can take to , as thou hast done in thy appendix , in thy taking pieces of sentences , thinking thereby to hide the truth , and verity , and also thereby would cover thy own shame and nakedness ; but when this refuge of lyes is swept away , then thy shame and nakedness doth appear , and thy lying and wickedness returns upon thy own head , and thy nakedness appears : thy pen had better been still , and thou silent , then to have spoken and written against christ jesus our corner-stone , which thou saist , thou will remove ; but thou art too light , he was before ever thou or thy father was , which was a lyer from the beginning , the weighty stone that is burdensome to the nations , is too heavy for thee to shake , and thy foundation is shaken , and crusht , and broken already , for thou art here proved to be a blasphemer against him , and an antichrist against him , and these things here before written are charged upon thee , and proved against thee , and except thou can clear thy self of the charges here charged against thee , stop thy mouth , and stay thy pen , and lay thee down in the darkness , and stop thy boasting mouth ; and thou saith in thy appendix boastingly , what feeble shifts are these , my assertions strikes at their very foundation , and before they make that good , they would run into other matters , but though they seem to be weary of their cause , i must told them to it till their corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed , that it may undoubtedly appear whether of them is the true rock christ jesus . answ . thy rock is a poor rock , an old image that thou hast digged and graven out of thy dark-brain and study , where all the conjurers and old divining priests in the apostacy , ever was , and is , this is thy rock , a natural created light , and spirit of a natural man , and has denyed christ jesus , which is the rock , the church of god , is built upon ; but thou hast split thy self of this rock , and is fallen in the pit . and thou boastingly saith further in this appendix , that thou art willing and ready again to debate the point in controverse with g. f. or any of his friends before the high sheriffe , or any in authority if they should require us to come forth for that end . answ . here is a crack indeed , thou durst not have said this , but thou thinks the sheriffe would not send for thee , thou puts it upon the magistrates and the sheriffe that thou thinks will not trouble thee , or else thou durst not have ventured on this boast , for i believe that on equal termes thou durst not ingage with old henry wood and william holden , not before the people to make good thy assertion that thou boasts so much on , which thou hath no cause to boast on , but to be ashamed of , for this is manifest of thee already in that thou hath not answered old h. w. queries yet , nor cannot do , and what dost thou talk of g. f. meeting thee , there are thousands in england that would turn and overturn thee and thy assertions ; and thou art grieved that old h. w. and w. h a blacksmith should engage with thee to answer thy challenge , for i believe they are of ability , for did not old hen. w. stop thy mouth before the people that thou could not answer him ; and now thou goes and calls for g. f. to shuffle it of thee , thou sure thinks that would be an honour to thee , and by that thou thinks thou could shuffle of answering h. w. and w. h. of making good thy assertion , it 's an easie matter to overthrow thee and thy assertion , any babe in the truth may soon manifest thee that never was in the truth , and so never mention g. f. coming to thee before thou has done with others that thou art engaged with , for there is a cloud of witnesses against thee , all the saints in the scripture bears testimony against thee , and all that knows truth , or ever will know it , doth and will witness against thee , and all of thy spirit and principle , and before thou make any more boasting , see if thou can clear thy self of what is here charged against thee , and proved upon thee , and by the scripture of truth that is to say , ( ) of being a blasphemer against the holy ghost . ( ) of being a minister of darkness . ( ) of being an idolater . ( ) of being an antichrist . see if thou canst cast this of thee before thou talk and boast that thou chiefly desires to deal with g. f. and such others as say they are apostles , that their doctrine and deeds being brought to the light , it may be truly known whether they be true apostles indeed , or false . answ . poor conditioned man what wilt thou try with , with thy dim , dark , natural created light ? thou art tryed and proved already , and weighed , and found too light , and so thy trying is little worth , the false apostles know more of the truth then ever thou did , and yet thou art so impudent , that thou talks of trying true apostles , but this is like thy former folly , but all has been to manifest and bring to light thy rotten hypocrisie , with which thou has deceived people , but thou will proceed no further , thy folly is so manifest , and thy filth is so uncovered that now people will see thee and thy deceitful wickedness , that with thy lying tongue can speak of regeneration , and new birth , and of trying true apostles and false , with many other words which thou has stoln out of the scriptures , or else thou could not have spoken them who denies the first principle of truth christ jesus the light of the truth , and the life , and the way to god , and therefore he stands upon thy head , thy condemner for ever , for i have heard many ministers and teachers , and seen their works , but i never saw nor heard such a humble jumble confused piece as this of thine , of dividing god and christ , and such distinctions of the light and word , but proves nothing of what thou intends , but leaves it confused like thy self , and sits as judge upon the son , and sits as judge upon the saints , and sits as judge upon the world , &c. and now j. w. since thou has taken upon thee withal thy might and main to push with thy horn against the lamb and his followers , and has engaged open war with him , and has boasted as though thou would remove him out of his place , and that in a publick testimony , let us now prove and try thy foundation , and let us see how thou will demonstrate thy strength , and manifest thy ability to performe this that thou has undertaken , that is to say , to wit , to remove our foundation , or we thine , which may be manifested to the reader by thy answering these following queries . st . query . whether the light that is in thee be not darkness , but thy asserting , to wit , that the light in every man is not a saving light , as also considering what is here proved before for the confuting of thy assertions ? dly . whether thy eye be not evil , and so thy whole body full of darkness , since that christ hath said , that the light of the body is the eye , and by thy assertion thou hast denyed that eye , and put it out ? dly . whether dost thou believe that thou thy self has the light of christ in thee , since thou has asserted that he has not inlightned every man , yea , or nay ? ly . if thou have the light of christ in thee , how comes thou by it , or where had thou it more then other men , and if thou was one of the world , and now is not , how came thy change , and when , and where , didst thou receive that which makes thee to differ from other men ? ly . thou has taken upon thee to teach people , how was thou called to it , or by whom was thou made a minister , didst thou ever hear the voice of god , hast thou the revelation of jesus , as the apostles had ? ly . dost thou turn people from the darkness to the light , and from the power of satan to the power of god , art thou no minister of the letter , but only of the spirit , as the apostles were ? ly . where is thy flock that thou has gathered from the power of darkness unto the marvelous light , as the saints in the scriptures were , is thy flock in unity and fellowship with all the saints in light , how is it then that thou denyes christ jesus the corner stone , and rock on which all the church of god is built ? ly . and how came thou and thy flock to be saints , since yee deny christ jesus the foundation , which is the stone is laid in sion , and how came you to differ from the rest of people since god is no respecter of persons , and what has made the difference betwixt thee , thy flock , and the rest of all other people of the world , shew it and manifest it forth wherein yee differ , and how yee came by that which makes yee to differ ? ly . thou saith in thy book , thou would have us to return to the true christ , and thou lookes upon our christ to be an idol , and has left us without direction to the true christ , thou speaks on , so my query is where this christ is thou calls the true christ , and what he is since thou has denyed him to be the light ? ly . thou has denyed him to be the new covenant , and law written in the heart . ly . thou has denyed him to be the word in the beginning . ly . thou has made a separation betwixt him and his father , so what is this true christ of thine , being thou saith who worships all these ( before mentioned ) worships an idol , being thou hast told us of a true christ , and has left us without knowledge of him , and without direction how to know him , thou wilt be in danger here to be one of the blind leaders except thou manifests to us what he is , and where he is , which thou has not done in all thy book , but all thy work has been to strike at ours , and called him an idol , and yet has found us no better . ly . thou seems by what thou hast writ in thy book as though thou were a tryer of spirits , and makes distinctions of lights , and speaks of two words ; and also , thou speaks as though thou could judge of regeneration , or new birth , and who has the spirit of god , and who has it not ; and not only so , but as though thou could try true apostles from false , and true doctrines from false , so thou has taken upon thee a high seat of judgment , when thou has taken upon thee to divide the father from the son. therefore , i charge thee in the presence of the living god , and as thou wilt answer it before the lord and his elect angels , to answer to these things , when and where , and how didst thou receive the word of life which was from the beginning , when did thy eyes see it , when did thy hands handle it , that word of life that was with the father , which the apostl . did see & bore witness of ? jo. . , . ly . when and where didst thou receive the power of god , which is , the gospel , the apostle preached , which is salvation to every one that believeth . ly . when and where , and how was it , that the son of god was revealed in thee , when he was revealed in the apostle he was to preach the gospel to the heathen , didst thou receive thy ministery by the inspiration of god , and conferred not ( as the apostle did not ) with flesh and blood , yea , or nay ? ly . was thou not made a minister of men , neither by men , neither was thou taught by men , but only by the revelation of jesus christ ? ly . when and where was the holy ghost poured upon thee as it was upon the apostles when they were met together , as also peter bears witness ? acts : , . who were faithful witnesses of jesus christ that he was a prince and a saviour ; and so also saith the holy ghost whom god hath given . heb. . , , . whereof the holy ghost is a witness to us , &c. now if thou hast received this holy ghost manifest when , and where , and how , if thou dost not stop thy mouth of thy tryings , and of thy distinctions of god and christ , and shut up thy treasures of darkness and sorcery , out of which thou hast blasphemed against god , and those that worships him. and in thy book thou saith , speaking of the priests , and of the world , being cloathed with guilt , were never able to this day to look this people in the face , to wit , the quakers . answ . prove and quit thy self of being one of these priests and people by answering of those queries above written , as also curwen's . queries , and also henry woods queries which all stands unanswered , and thy assertion stands false yet , and unproved , and thou stands proved and charged a blasphemer , a minister of darkness , and an idolater , and an antichrist , by plain scriptures of truth , which never can be broken , thou art proved to be all these , so see if thou and all thy flock and confederates can wipe this away off thee that is laid upon thee . and , answer all the queries that is sent to thee by plain scripture , without wresting or turning , or adding , or diminishing , left the plagues of god be added unto thee , and if thou dost not , thou and thy followers and all thy companions will be found amongst those that are not able to look the quakers in the face , for thou has as much guilt upon thee as ever man had , which may well cause thee to turn thy back , and stop thy mouth . and so this is but an answer to a part of thy appendix which concerned me . margaret fell. and whereas thou saist , another writes thus , thou opposes the truth , art an enemy to christ , an opposer of the gospel , the power of god , and several other truths : the substance whereof is plain truth , and to thy condition every word , as thou hast manifested in thy book . and whereas thou writes , that another writes thou art in thy will-worship , carnal ordinances , thou hardens thy self against the truth , thou art an enemy to god and his truth , &c. ans . but if thou hadst been an honest man thou would have put in all my words to thee in thy book , and their names who they were , but they have hit thy condition , therefore art thou tormented . and whereas thou saist , this is william houldings paper ; thou speaks falsly , for it was mine henry wood , and as for mine william houldings paper thou hast not put it in thy book , which speaks about george foxes leather-breeches , which thou having lost religion , god and christ , hast made such work about his leather-breeches , but g. f. likes them better then thy cloak of hypocricy ; and so its like thou was ashamed to put my letter in thy book , or thy own letter either , in which thou made such work about them , now this is wood's reply : i put thee in mind first , that thomas curwen and i henry wood did write some queries to thee , expecting to have them answered by thee , which were the occasion of the dispute , as the record of the dispute will make manifest , and whereof there was no end made of the assertion which was put forth , has caused many papers to pass and repass , and according to my freedom i passed thy paper upon this account , because i had been an eye witness , and an ear witness of some proceedings there , and of thy joyning with william barret a cheshire man , and this was about nine years ago at manchester at john maddocks house in a dispute with our friends ; another time there was a dispute held at the same house between thee and richard huberthorn , at that time thou made thy self manifest , for thou broke into passion , and said he was a publick person , so that thou was reproved by one of thy own auditors edward gaythorn by name , but not withstanding , thou rose up and went away , uttering these words , that if thou had known that so many would have been present , thou would not have been there that time , although thou had said before that thou was a publick person ; i knowing these proceedings gave forth this paper that the reader may know the ground wherefore i thus write ; because , i had known thee thus long to oppose christ the light , therefore those queries sent by old henry wood and thomas curwen were as pills to thee sent for this end , that they might work out that old leaven of bitterness which i have known lying so long within thee , as i have made mention of before , and this i may say , truly was done in love to thy soul ; now this not being so taken , it caused thee to spew out these words , and to be so large in writing against friends and the truth , and for the reason of calling them dogs the scriptures are very plain , for they were called greedy dumb dogs who sought for gain from their quarter ; and yet there was many to lick up their vomit ; likewise , they were called dogs which were without as thou may read in the revelations . and for thy challenge to us we were willing to meet thee , but thou was not willing to meet us , although thon before challenged to meet g. f. or any of his friends ; what is the cause , dost thou not condescend to men of low degree , for if i meet thee it is not with hoasting my self in other mens lines made ready to my hand , but in the name and power of the lord , in the light of his son christ ; for this i say unto thee , if thou had not used deceit thou would have written down my whole paper , but i shall cause it to be written down my self that all may see it ; and do not charge george fox with it ; and since thou hast given a second challenge , but hast not answered the first , which we did call on thee to do , and to make good thy assertions , but thou shuffles off from it , and names g. fox , and flees from us , and will make it good to neither , the paper is as follows , we desire thee with patience to read it over . oh friend john wiggan it seems old wood's and curwen's pills which they gave thee to work out that old leaven that hath layn so long within thee , but this hath wrought of the contrary part , and hath caused thee to vomit and spew out upon a piece of paper , and sent forth for the dogs to lick up , and they being eager doth take so much of this thy filthy spewing that it causeth them to vomit as thou dost ; therefore it was high time to call for it that no more be made sick with it ; thou hast used so many friends names in it , that by the reason that it was taken away so suddenly and unexpectedly that they cannot reply unto it ; thou saith , thou hast answered wood's queries , but it appears that they remain unanswered ; and likewise thou put down . queries of curwen's unanswered , therefore henry wood and thomas curwen will meet thee to answer thy challenge which thou hath put forth , and saith , thou would be answered before the high sheriffe , for we are not careful to answer thee in this matter , although thou useth the name of christ , thou doth not depart from iniquity as it doth appear by thy smiting at the corner-stone , which is the light ; thou art far behind the woman of samaria , for she said , is not this the christ that hath shewed me all that ever i did ? it appears to me that thou esteems this at a low value , which shewes thee all things that ever thou did , and calls it natural , although it testifie against those things that are natural and carnal , where thou art worshipping the god of the world , which blinds the eye of the children of disobedience , the vaile of darkness is so thick that thou cannot see thorow it , nor comprehend the light , that giveth the light of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , which shineth in the heart : and whereas thou saist , thy assertion is made good ; it appears to all that are wise that it is not made good at all ; for thou hath challenged another meeting , so appoint the place and time , and thomas curwen , and henry wood , and william houlding , or any of them will meet thee , and hear what thou can say against christ the saving light. now whereas thou saist , not a word in all those papers discovers the unsoundness of thy assertion . ans . thou should have published the papers to the readers , and then they might have judged of it , whether thou hast spoken truth or no , but thou art afraid to publish that which makes against thee , but takes here a word , and there a word , thinking thereby to villifie friends , but they are made manifest in the hearts of people , and all thy slanders nor any thing thou canst do will hurt any of us , for was there a worse word spoken to thee , which was spoken in the truth , then thou thy self did speak to me and other friends faisly and unjustly , and why didst thou not publish in thy book those four sheets of paper that the reader might have seen them , and our expressions in our letters ; had they been light , vain , and frivilous , thou would have made advantage upon them and not have hid them , but have published them in thy book , as thou hast done some few lines of them , but they are true unto thy condition , and will stand on thy head , and it doth become saints to bear testimony against deceit , and there is much in thy papers that contradicts thy assertion , and my paper was true and overthrew it which thou publisht a few lines of ; and then tells the reader of four sheets , and never a word to discover thy assertion , and thus thou loves thy deeds of darkness and hates the light , and thus thy folly is made manifest to all men , tim. . and whereas thou saist , thou hast not published this abroad , but we have done it first ; which is false , for we did publish nothing in the town , for the letter which i gave to the jaylor thou hadst , but i did not send it into the town , but gave it to thomas hardy , but thou sent thine into the town , and abroad , and was not so honest as to give us a coppy of it ; and thy assertion was answered by plain scripture , but was never proved by plain scripture ; but is thy chaffie imaginations , and wresting the scriptures , which is nothing but spewing from a child of darkness , which hates the light , joh. . rev. and hath not god spewed thee and thy religion and worship out of his mouth , levit. . . and whereas thou speaks , how we cursed thee with the plagues of god ; the scripture saith , the plagues of god is to thee who adds to the scripture , as thou hast done ; and it was thou that said , the plagues of god was upon me , but thy curses are causless ; so what we have writ and spoken to thee it was from the spirit of god , and the lord hath judged between thee and us in this matter , and his judgment is clear , and thy hidden things of darkness is come to light , cor. . and there is no communion between light and darkness , cor. . and the mist of darkness is over thee , pet. . the darkness hath blinded thy eyes , joh. . reserved under the chains of darkness , jude . and rev. . read that and see thy own condition . whereas thou saist , had it not been a more easie and commendable work in one sheet plainly to have discovered and refuted error , ( if any such be in my writings ) then to have filled . or . sheets with such stuffe as this , surely a right spirit would have lead them this way . ans . those three or four sheets was most of them particular letters sent to thee by many persons , so as i said before thou shouldst have published the whole letters , not part of them , and let them have spoken themselves to the reader , and thy errors are sufficiently manifest in thy book , and thou would have a sheet of paper written to thy book five sheets , in a few dayes time , which concerns several friends . miles distance one from another , this was wiggan's policy and his peoples , to get the book again , and to boast that it could not be answered . and thy next words , concerning antichrists fair speeches and allurements , while there is hope to make merchandize of them ; is directly thy own condition , for now thou being stirred up and opposed , rages , who did appear to ignorant people like a lamb , but thou was known to us before , for now thou art loud and clamorous , and falsly accusing when thou canst not get thy will about , like to the whore in proverbs . and josephs mistress , genesis . and pet. . and whereas , thou speaks of owning preachers not sent , but denyes the lord that bought them , and preaches not the same jesus , and gospel as paul did , such thou saist thou ownes not , but denies . ans . then thou denies thy self and thy own assertion , for the apostle preached that jesus , which said , he was the light of the world , joh. . and joh. . so thou art the man that christ never sent , rom. . . and jer. . . and thou art proved the antichrist that denies the lord that bought thee , pet. . and jude . . and so art one of them that crept in unawares , who preaches another jesus , another gospel then christ the light. and whereas thou saist , we boast of gifts , &c. and that it s reported to thee that g. fox had the gift of tongues , and by such like pretences we gain a multitude , and it is a certain character of antichrists last coming that many shall follow their pernitious wayes . ans . our boast is not in gifts nor tongues , as knowing they begin at babel , but our rejoycing is in the word christ jesus , and in his light , truth and spirit ; and we would have all men and women come to the same in themselves , which thou denies , by which they might know the lord , by which a multitude is come to follow the lord , and to walk in his way the light , which thou enviously calls a pernitious way , and a mark of antichrists coming ; and thou antichrist like would draw people from the light , and spirit of god within them to thy own way , but god hath overthrown , and is overthrowing thy pernitious wayes , and many who have been followers of thee , now comes to follow the lord ; and that makes thee thus to rage , mathew . . pet. . . and our way is christ , and he is our guift of god. and after this thou sends . queries abroad , and thou thy self couldst not answer my queries , nor wood's ; is this the part of a man of wisdom , or reason ? nevertheless , i shall not let thy queries pass unanswered , though these queries are not to us chiefly . thy queries are as followeth ; query . whether it can be found in all the scriptures that any of the true prophets , or christ , or his apostles ever used such language as is before mentioned in any person professing repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ ; or whether it be not clearly the spirit of an antichristian spirit , as hath been hinted . ans . thou that has denyed christ jesus to be the light of the world , and calls him an idol , and hath denyed christ the light to be saving , contrary to the scriptures , luke . . thou hast denyed repentance and faith in christ , for thou hast denyed that which thou should believe in ; and therefore thy words bears the mark of antichrist , joh. . , . joh. . . joh. . . and what we speak of thee is true upon thee , and the apostle used such language to such like , as acts . . where the apostle called elimas an enemy of all righteousness , a child of the devil , which perverted the deputy from the right way of god , as thou dost people : and read timothy and titus , and there see what words the apostle gives to evil beasts and slow bellies , titus . . . query . whether there can be any other gain in the aforesaid censures , then to cast an odioum upon , and to cause a disesteem of the persons opposing them , and whether this was not the practice of the false prophets and false apostles , thereby to gain more credit to their own cause . ans . this is thy own condition , for what gain is it , by all thy former slanderous words which thou cast both upon christ and us , that christ should not be believed in , and that we should be of disesteem among people , that holds truth forth to all people that they might believe in him who enlightens them ; and this was the work of the false prophets and false apostles , to disesteem of christ and the apostles , that people should not believe in him , nor receive their doctrine ; as mat. . , . and cor. . and did they not say , christ deceived the people , read mathew ; and did they not say , jeremy deceived the people ; but the false prophets and false apostles could get the true christs , prophets and apostles words , but was out of the life , and not being in the spirit , the true apostles alwayes judged them , as thou art now , peter . and jude . . query . whether it be not a manifest abuse of the scriptures , and a presumptuous introduction into the office of christ , positively to affirme that the sins of any man shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in that which is to come , meerly because he denyed the light that is in every man that comes into the world to be saving , in as much as the scripture no where saith thus , that the light is saving . ans . thou doth not only deny christ the light to be saving , but thou denyest the holy ghost to reprove the world , &c. and christ saith , all sin may be forgiven but that which is against the holy ghost ; and thou dost also blaspheme and sin against him , not as he is a man , but as he is the light and spirit , mat. . . and whereas thou saith , the scripture no where saith , that the light is saving , the scripture saith , christ is the light , and he is the salvation , john . and the lord shall be to thee an everlasting light , and the lord is the saviour of his people : and joh. . i am come a light into the world , saith christ ; and he is a saviour : and psal . . . and david saith , the lord is my light and salvation . and here thou lyes against that which the holy ghost hath said , in saying the scripture saith , no where the light is saving ; and in isai . . . where the lord speaking of christ , saith , i will give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou mayest be my salvation to the ends of the earth : and god is light , and he is a saviour : and here thou may see how thou denies the scriptures . . query . whether this people do not censure all men and women in the world ( as well as the author of these papers ) to be out of the first step that leads to christianity , to be infidels and to be accursed , if they deny the light that is in every man that comes into the world to be saving , and whether is not this as much as to say , that they only and none besides themselves are christians , and whether is not this a great appearance of pride in them thus highly to esteem themselves above all others . ans . there is few people of the world will deny that the light of christ ( which enlightens every one that comes into the world ) is saving but thou ; and such priests as thou art who contends against the truth , and it is not pride to confess christ the light to be saving , and deny them that denies it , and say they are out of the first step , for christ being the light , life , way , and salvation , thou , and those that denies him to be saving , are out of the first step to god , for christ is the way to him . . query . and whether are not all those censures directly contrary to the saints , and such as make them lyable to greater judgments , mat. . , . jam. . , . answ . that which hath been spoken to thee hath been truth , and mat. . speaks to thy own condition , who judges unrighteously of christ and us , and thou art in that condition where many masters is , jam. . . from the one master christ , mat. . . query . whether do not these clamorous and evil speakings for which there is no scriptural warant , manifestly flow from bitterness , anger , wrath and malice , as the apostle intimates , eph. . . ans . we do not know of any that hath spoken more clamorous and evil speeches against christ and his people then thou hast from thy earthly , sensual , devillish wisdom below , jam. . . & eph. . . in the malice , wrath , envy , clamor , and evil speaking that thou art in against christ the saving light , &c. . query . whether any wise experienced christian can judge of this people to be in a perfect sinless state , who appears with these open sinful railings , cursings , judging in their mouthes ; nay , since this they boast and glory in this their shame , whether is it not evident that they are the servants of corruption ? ans . railings , curfings , boastings and glorying , and such like we deny , but we speak the truth to thee , as in rev. . as the plagues added to them who adds to the scriptures ; and our rejoycing is in the truth ; and the apostles did not raile when they told such false teachers as thee , 〈◊〉 what was their properties : and its manifest by thy railings against us that thou seems corruption . . query . whether this hath not been their manner all along , to strive to overcome with these carnal weapons , threatnings , censurings , cursings , revilings , &c. and since no scriptural weapon is yet imployed in the management of their cause supported thereby . ans . our weapons are spiritual , and by scripture weapons we have overthrown thy assertion , as may be seen in the book , and the rest of thy fellow priests ; and censuring and revilings , &c. hath not been our weapons to overcome with , but truth hath been our weapon , by which we answer that of god in every one ; but railing , revilings , and persecutions hath been your weapons against us , the nation knows it , when you were not able to resist the light of chrisi jesus , and the spirit by which we spoke : and here thou belyes us in saying , we use no scripture weapons , but it hath been by the scripture and the spirit of god all along we proved you to be deceivers , our writings and bookes will witness against thee . . query . whether it be not abominable wickedness to father all their evil speeches upon the holy ghost ; and to say where they curse , raile , revile , speak falsly and frothily , that it is by his inspiration and command . ans . this is thy own condition , when christ and the apostles spoke to the pharisees they did not flatttr them , nor smooth them up as the false prophets did , ezek. . . and the holy ghost leads us to speak truth to every man according to their conditions without flattery ; read how many woes christ pronounced against thy generation in mathew . so in this thou hast wronged us , and belyed us as thou hast done before . . query . whether can any man rationally conclude that these people bear any true love to that person whom they judge to be the enemy of god and accursed , and whose sins shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in the world to come , or rather when they profess love , and say they desire his welfare , is there not just ground to believe they speak lyes in hypocrisie as its said apostates should do in the latter times , tim. . ans . our love is to all mankind , and we would not have had thee to have run into such sins against the holy ghost , telling thee plainly what would come , and relating to thee the portion due to thy condition , as in rev. . and herein stands our love as from the lord , who rains upon the just and unjust , and causes his sun to shine on both ; and herein we do shew the mark of our father , and that we are the children of our father which is in heaven ; and so our love is not partial like thine , which thou enviously and maliciously termes to lyes in hypocrisie , which was spoken for loves sake to thee ; but bray a fool in a morter and he will not forsake his folly , as solemon saith : and tim. and an enemy to god thou hast proved thy self ; and for that cause we cannot flatter thee , acts . thes . . . phillipian . . . psalm . . psalm . . . query . do they not plainly discover a persecuting spirit in the aforementioned reviling , and may not any man in reason conclude that whom they judge an enemy of god , and accursed , they would use as such , if that they had power . ans . cain is afraid where there is no fear , and thou being in his spirit manifests the same , for when did any of us lay such violent hands upon thee as thou didst upon thomas curwen and john abraham , when they came to discourse with thee of the things of god ; so that hath been spoken to thee in love and kindness , as was told thee before , that thou might have turned from thy wickedness ; that was the cause why thou thus accuses us , and as for the persecuting spirit , and reviling that is thy own . . query . and last i leave it to be considered by such as will take the pains to read the account which i have given of the light within , whether they do not speak all this evil of me , meerly because i have told them the truth and not for any other cause , &c. ans . that which thou hast spoken hath been against the truth , and is lyes , and the reader may see , thou calls christ an idol , a natural light , a created light , and spirit of a natural man , contrary to the scripture ; and so thou being against christ , the scriptures , and gods people , therefore have we writ to thee , and spoken to thee , being according to thy own challenge , in love and in a scripture way ; and it is for christs sake thou hates us . and whereas thou speaks of another sheet that thou will present to discover the mystery of iniquity . bring out all the strength thou hast , for it will further discover thy own iniquity , and thou shalt not find christ natural or created , nor an idol , but in his strength we shall answer thee . and whereas thou saist , to the inquirer and weak , take heed of the religion that begins with a lye , for it is certain , a great judgment of god to be given up to believe lyes , thes . . . and that the first step to this peoples religion is an abominable lye ; and that every one is taught and required at his enterance into this religion to believe this lye , i have shewed in my former paper . ans . it is thy own religion which is begun with a lye , therefore all people are to take heed of it , who denies christ the light , joh. . , . and art given up to believe lyes , and utter the same , thes . . and whereas thou maliciously saith , to turn people from the darkness to the light of christ , being our first step is a lye . ans . in this thou hast proved thy self a false minister , and contrary to the scripture , and the apostles ministry , which was the same , which is the first step ; in this thou hast manifest thy envy , as all yong people may see who enquireth after the lord , acts . and the abominable lye is thy own , and little else but lyes in thy book , and so thou may expect the judgment of the lord to be thy portion . and whereas thou bids them take heed of that spirit that denyes christ come in the flesh , least they be partaker of his evil deeds by biding him god speed . answ . this is thy own condition , thou art the man who denyes him to be come to enlighten all men , and denyes his light to be convincing , and so has denyed john's testimony ; a man sent from god , john . and so none that feares god can bid thee god speed in thy evil work , therefore thou art offended , and we shall not be partakers with thee of thy evil deeds , for no other christ do we own but he who dyed at jerusalem , above sixteen hundred years since , who sits at the right hand of god , and is revealed in us according to his promise , who saith i will come and dwell in you , as in joh. and the cor. . cor. . . act. . . and collo . . . , . and all who are called christians confess christ to be come , but deny the end of his coming , to destroy the devil and his works , ioh. . . and to take away sin , but they must have sin while they be upon the earth , this is your general doctrine , and denyes christ to be come a light into the world according to both the prophets and apostles . and whereas thou saist , take heed of that people who have no better weapons , then censures , cursings , judging , threatnings . answ . our weapons are spiritual , and we have related over to thee thy due according to the scripture , as the scriptures threatens thee , and pronounces these plagues to be due to thee , who addes to it , and we teach that people might follow christ jesus the light of the world , and not follow thee who saist he is a natural light , and an idol , and a created light , and james . . is thy condition , and so thou art the man that deceives people with vain words , ephe. . . and with fair speeches the hearts of the simple , rom. . . and as for giving satisfaction thou art not likely , who denyes the light christ jesus , and any who reads thy confused book may see there is no satisfaction given in it , though thou hast perverted many scriptures ; and as for thy further debate , upon thy assertion we tould thee we were ready , and tell thee so now again , who hast challenged us twice in this thy book to meet us before the sheriff , which thou might have spared this challenge in thy appendix ; for we had given thee an answer before ; we would meet thee ; to wit , thomas curwen husbandman , william houlding blacksmith , william wilson taylor , and henry vvood a dayly labourer ; seeing thou art the man who hath challenged us , we shall in the strength of the lord meet thee when thou wilt , and appoint a time and place , for we were the men whom thou hadst first to deale withall in this place ; and what dost thou scoffingly put shoo-maker in , which was not in , which is a word of thy own forging , as though thou was not able to answer us , or durst not stand to thy own assertions ; but shuffles from them : and one would have thought john. henry vvood had given thee disputing enough before , when thou was so gravel'd and stopt , thou fled away from the table , and now it seemes thou hast put it of , till the magistrates call us out , as though they had nothing to do , but to medle with thy antichristian wayes ; nevertheless it stands on thy head , and do not say we provoked thee , for it was thy own challenge , for thou hast taken that in hand thou canst not make good by the scriptures , without adding or diminishing , we know that before hand . and whereas thou saist , he that saith and affirmeth the light in every man to be christ is a deceiver , and an antichrist . ans . the light that lighteth every man that comes into the world , he that affirmed this was no antichrist , joh. . who said , as many as receives him , he gives them them power to become the sons of god ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy malice against christ and against the apostle , who bore witness of him , and in plain words calls him an autichrist , and against us who are in the same doctrine , and teach the same thing , and thou hast proved thy self to be an antichrist , joh. . for christ is the light and salvation to the ends of the earth , who doth enlighten euery man that comes into the world , joh. . joh. . luke . . and thou saist , what feeble shifts are those , my assertion striks at their very foundation , and before they make that good they would run into other matters , they seem to be weary of their cause , but i must hold them to it , till their corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed that it may evidently appear whither of us be of the true rock christ jesus . ans . thy rock which thou so calls , is tryed and found to be no rock but confusion , who denies christ jesus the true rock , which the prophets prophesied of , should come , whom the apostles witnessed was come ; and for thy false saying that we grow weary , and before thou complained we urged thee on , how stands thy confusion together , with reasonable men , let them judge , and we do not shuffle with thy assertion , neither are weary of our cause , ( which thou saist we are ) for we need not , for we know what thou art who is wholly bent against christ , it is thou which is weary of thy cause , and shuffles as thou hast reason ; for we relate some other of thy assertions which thou hast laid down , art thou now ashamed of them , and yet saist , thou will hold us to it , and yet answers nothing to the purpose , and it is christ the foundation which thou strikes against , as the jewes did , but to no purpose , and thus thou and thy fellow priests hath strucken at him , who is our foundation , till you be all fallen into the ditch , and leads the people thither too , it is manifest to the nations . thou saist in thy appendix again , thou art willing to debate the point in controversie before the sheriff , or others in authority , and saist let not g. f. thinke to shuffle himself out , and put his taske upon others , for he must know because it is affirmed that he was called of the lord from his trade as the apostles were , my desire is to deale with him chiefly in this matter , and such others as say they are apostles , that their doctrine and deeds being brought to light , it may appear whether they be true apostles indeed or false , and preach another gospel then jesus and paul did , as i have cause to suspect them , and doubt not to prove them to be , if they adhere to the principles laid down in their printed books , and maintained in their late debate . answ . this is thy shuffle and base charge , whereas thou saist g. f. would shuffle from it , and lay it upon others , that is false , it s thou would shuffle from those which thou hast begun withall , it seemes we gave thee enough the last time , thou needs not call of g. f. for the least of us in the truth is able to answer thee , and to see if thou can make good thy assertions , which thou could not make good in the last dispute , nor hast not done yet , which we yet call on thee to doe , which by the scriptures of truth thou canst not prove , without adding or diminishing ; and the same jesus and gospel whom paul preached , whom we own , which thou saist thou will prove an idol , and prove us antichrists who affirme this ; and as for all our books , which are given forth from the truth we own , and our deeds are brought to the light , and by this thine are seen , and thou too , to be one of the false teachers , and thy deeds to be deeds of darkness , and why dost thou pervert m. f's . words , in saying g. f. was called from his trade , when her words was , he was called from his calling , as thou reports and thou talkes of trying apostles , and denyes the light christ , in thy dark spirit , and calls christ an idol and natural light , and as for g. f. whose name thou hast publisht abroad in thy letters up and down beyond the sands , and towards manchester , and to m. f. and sometimes scoffing at his leather-breeches , sometimes at one thing , sometimes at another , and never was so civil as to write to him , so we do look thou should make thy assertions good to us , before thou medle with him , for they concern us , and we are the men that will encounter with thee , as before mentioned , according to thy challenge , whom thou in scorn calls meckhanike men ; and as for me thomas curwen , i nor none of us are no more mechanicke then thy self , nor never had collection yet john. though i have been a prisoner above four yeares , canst thou say so john ; and as for me g. f. i never spoke with thee but three times since thou came hither , and once at london , and i heard such euil language from thee as i never heard from man ; & i coming into the last dispute with friends , and then there being liberty granted , i hearing thee lay down thy assertions , and affirming them together with thy people ; first , that some men that came into the world had not the spirit of god ; which was put to thee to make good , ( being thou was the mouth for them ) by plain scripture , without adding or diminishing , which thou seemed to prove out of jude , which thou couldst not ; and that god denyed faith to some men , and that christ did not shed his blood for all men ; and that balaam had no more spirit then his horse ; and that wicked men had not the spirit of god : these things with several others which you asserted was put to thee to make good , which thou hast not done to this day ; nevertheless , thou hast challenged to meet me g. f. and having disperst my name in several papers in a slanderous way ; and thy brother price which came down to fell's chamber , and challenged me out , which i presently came up , and sent william houlding to thee , and bid thee come down to me in the hall , but thou would not come at me . and whereas thou challenges me g. f. to meet thee before the sheriffe . my answer is , send me word when thou wilt , and that thou will make these assertions good , by the plain scriptures without adding or diminishing , which thou hast laid down to me , for i am ready to meet thee through the power and strength of almighty god , and if i have liberty , according as thou hast challenged : and many things more i have of thine for thee to make good ( which i shall not here put to ink and paper ) by plain scripture , for truth remains over all deceit . g. f. and why dost thou flatter me william houlding , dost thou now own mechanicks ; but thou owned none when thou writ to m. f. but jeared at g. f. in this report , and lost thy religion to talk of his leather-breeches , and thus fools will be medling with that which doth not concern them , busie bodies in others matters : and when thou had abused m. f. in thy papers , she sent for thee to speak with thee about the abuse , but thou would not come at her , and manifested herein thy guilt and uncivility ; and dost thou not make a noise abroad against us , amongst ignorant people , and keeps them from the light , that so thou maist get some collections of them ; for thy letters to m. f. signifies something of a false fear and jealousie , that something should have gone besides thy mouth , cruly i think that is the cause of thy rage against us , who owns christ jesus the light. w. h. here followes a coppy of a paper which was given to john wiggan of his assertions . friend john wiggan , we hearing of a book thou hast given into the town before we had a coppy of it , another challenge to us to meet before some publick magistrate , and the sheriffe , we william houlding blacksmith , and henry wood a daily labouring man , who cannot read on a book , and thomas curwen husbandman , and william wilson taylor ; who in the strength of the lord desire to give the said john vviggan a meeting before the sheriffe , as he hath challenged us , and hath sent his challenge into the town and not to us , with many villifying and slanderous words in the said book which he hath sent amongst the people ; so let all the wise in heart judge of this man whether he hath carried himself like a rational man yea or no. the assertions are as followeth . . for john vviggan to prove and make good out of the scriptures of truth . . that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , contrary to john . . . that the light wherewith every man is enlightened that comes into the world is not a saving light. . to make good that which thou hast laid down , that there is some men that comes into the world hath not the spirit , contrary to iohn . . acts . . . that christs blood was not shed for all men , contrary to the epistle of iohn . . . that balaam had no more of the spirit of god then his horse , and which was held forth in the dispute against us , contrary to numbers . . . that balaam did not see the starr of iacob , contrary to numbers . . . and that wicked men hath not the spirit of god , nor the holy ghost , contrary to gal. . neh. . . that the light before faith is not pure , contrary to rom. . . . and that christ the light that lightens every one that comes into the world is an idol , contrary to ioh. . . . & . . that the grace of god is an idol , contrary to ephesians . , . . and that there is no mercy with god , contrary to psalm . . . that christ is not the word , contrary to revel . . . . that the light is a false christ , contrary to ioh . , . . and that light doth not shine in darkness , contrary to iohn . . . and that god who is the word , doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is not saving . . and that the light christ that enlightens every man that comes into the world , is a natural light. . that some are in the flesh , and hath not the spirit : this is he to make good and prove how they can quench it , and grieve it , that hath it not . . that some that comes into the world have not a saving light. . some there are that are in the flesh , and never had the spirit , contrary to rom. . . that the time must come that men must break their plow-shares into swords and speares , which his brother price justifies in a book , and john wiggan was offended because we marked it out for error ; and these things we would have the said john wiggan to stand to , and make good before the sheriffe ( as he challenged ) by plain scriptures of truth in the new testament . for both the scriptures and common-prayer testifies against thy principles . some more of john wiggan's assertions , which are not many of them , in the former above written . . that the light in every man that comes into the world , is not the door , nor the mediator , saviour , nor redeemer , nor the way , truth , the life , the lord that bought them , nor the corner-stone , nor the infallible spirit . . that it is not the true jesus , but an idol , the light wherewith every man is enlightened , or the light that lighteth every man. . to follow christ the light is to follow a pernitious way . . that the light was natural , and spirit of a natural man , and was that in adam which let him see his sin . . that light which is darkness spoken of in math. . , . le ts man see his creator . . and this light looketh upon every thing done , or to be done of man , and yet this light maketh not any thing that is done , to be good or evil , and yet this light sheweth the creator , and this light in man will render god righteous in his proceedings against man. . that christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world. . that they in iude spoken of , as cain and cora , and balaam had not the spirit . . and this light with which every man is enlightened is natural , and its gross to say , that the light which enlightens every man is christ . . that the light in every man is but the spirit of a man , the law written in the heart . . that who so worships that light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , as redeemer , worships an imaginary and fictious christ , and an idol , denying the person of the true jesus . . that whosoever saith , that he that is the light in every man is christ , is a deceiver and an antichrist , and iohn wiggan will prove them so . . and it is the subtle deceiver , and adversary satan , that saith , the light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is the lamb , and the lord , and the object of faith . . and the light that doth enlighten every man is the word , and before he said it was the natural man's spirit , and an idol , &c. . that the light , the word god , which enlightens every man is natural , and man by it knows nothing of christ , though he confess by it , he knows the eternal power and god-head , the fulness whereof dwells in christ bodily . . and the word god , the true light , which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; he saith , is darkness , mat. . , . . and the word god doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , by setting up a light and spirit in man , which is called the candle of the lord , and writing a law in his heart , and the light which doth enlighten every man , is not the word which was in the beginning . . and christ came a light into the world not to enlighten every man that comes into the world , and this light is able to seek and feel after god his creator , and by it man may know his creator , and the eternal power and godhead , it is a created light , a great light , it is but a candle light , but it discovers man's transgressions , and this light springeth up with mans spirit , and this light is the spirit of a natural man , ( which doth not know the things of god ) and this light discovered adam's sin , and this light is natural and not spiritual . . but this light knows nothing of the gospel mystery hid in god , nor redemption by christ , nor of gods good purpose , and grace , nor of the law of faith . . this candle-light , to wit that light wherewith every man that comes into the world is enlightened , is not able to discern the mystery of god in christ . and so make good these things by scripture , or stop thy mouth for ever , for thou challenged us first , or give over challenging ; for we would have discoursed with thee privately in a christian way in thy chamber , but thou in great rage denyed it ; and another time thomas curwen came into thy chamber in a christian way , and thou took hold of him and shook him by his coat , and like to have torne it off his back , and laid violent hands on him , and would have thrust him out of thy chamber : for , it s very well that the discourse be before a magistrate to keep thee civil , for thy carriage in the last dispute was not so hansome . so provided that thou keep thy people in order , and thy self also , that you may speak one by one , and so speak as many as will on both sides , that the spirit need not be limited in any , for thou was the first man that broke the order in the last dispute , and spake when another man was speaking , which was taken notice of by all the wise and sober . and also provided that thou keep down that foolish spirit of laughter , and be more modest and civil then thou was in the last dispute when we were discoursing of the things of god , and answer these things by scripture according to thy challenge before the sheriffe , and in the strength of the lord we will meet thee , if liberty may be had , and when thou hast made good these things by scripture ; if thou have any thing to say to any else they will answer thee . these principles he hath laid down , and spoken to friends , and some were in books , which his brother evan price sent to us , and iohn wiggan was offended because we did mark them for errors ; which you may see how contrary they be to the scriptures of truth . william houlding blacksmith , henry wood who is a daily labouring man , who cannot read a word on a book , and thomas curwen husbandman , and vvilliam vvilson taylor , dointend to give iohn vviggan a meeting before the sheriffe according to his challenge , if the lord will : and these things and also worse things in the book we desire to be brought forth to the light at the dispute , and there they may be proved ; for he did challenge us first , though our lives be out of disputes , yet we shall give him a meeting , and for him to make these things good by plain scripture . and also besides all the scandals , slanders , and villifyings , and lyings , and unsavory sawcy language , and scornful , reproachful speeches , in a jearing , scoffing , and villifying way against us ; and these be some of his notorious principles , which he could never make good by plain text of scripture , which he has long made a trade upon to get his living by , and in a feigned carriage and humility to go up and down , and insence and sow discord , and to make the minds of the simple envious against such as honours god and loves virtue , but his rage and violent hands hath been known upon richard huberthorn , iohn abraham , thomas curwen , and others ; who may seem to be simple , and in an outward appearance to be a humble man to those who swallow down all , without any question , proof or tryal , but when he comes to be tryed , his rage , and passion , and violent hands comes to be felt and seen by such as reasons with him in a christian way . we desire thee i. vv. that thou would send for the book which thou and thy brother price was grieved , because we marked them for errors , which was so contrary to scripture . here followes some queries for j. w. to answer . . whether i. vv. is a fit man to preach the gospel of peace , that layes violent hands on people ? . and whether or no that he can preach the gospel of peace , and be not in the peace himself to all men . . and whether or no this was the spirit of christ in i. vv. when thomas curwen went to reason with him of the things of god in a christian way , and like to have torn his coat off his back , that t. c. was faine to cry out , what a minister of christ and fight ? and also iohn abraham , when he went to him to be satisfied in the things of god ; he laid hands of him , and thrust him away ; whether or no these be the fruits of a minister of christ , and whether or no these be not the fruits of a natural man ; and whether or no this spirit can give satisfaction in the things of god , but only with his natural spirit , make use of the scriptures for his own end ? . and whether or no such a persecuting spirit ( both with tongue and hands ) be not alwaies blind . . and whether or no the blind leads any whether but into the ditch , so whether or no he that leads into the ditch doth know the things of god that leads to heaven . . and whether or no this blind spirit may not give forth many queries for others to answer , and yet answer none proposed to him , and lay down many assertions , and make none good by the scriptures of truth , as you may see henry vvoods and thomas curwens queries lyes unanswered yet , and his own false assertions not proved by the scriptures without adding or diminishing . . and so whether ( a striker , a railer , a fighter ) christ sent such to preach the gospel of peace , and such as disdaines and scornes tradesmen , and calls them mechanicke men , as iohn vviggan doth ? . and whether or no he doth not go in the high priests rode , scorning the apostles , as being tradsmen & fishermen , & unlearned ? . and whether or no these simple tradesmen did not bring more glory to god then all the wise men ( such as iohn vviggan ) in the earth , or pilat with his greek and latin ; yea , i say abel , iacob and david , keepers of sheep , and elisha called from the plow , and amos a herdsman , and peter and iohn fishermen , and paul a tentmaker ; nay , did not the iewes mockingly call christ a carpenters son : and what think you now of iohn vviggan who has called and challenged us mechanick men , twice to meet him before the sheriffe , that he would make good his erronious assertions , and when we laid down his assertions , and said , we would meet him , he now disdaines us as mechanick men . . whether these hands that will thrust and pull , and hale , and like to pull peoples cloaths off their backs , be the holy hands that are lifted up in prayer , tim. . . or the fifts of wickedness spoken of in isa . . . thomas curwen . william houlding . henry wood. william wilson . errata . page the . line the . for some read so . p. . l. . f. the r. thy . p. . l. . f. thing r. things , p. . l . f. not as r. as not . l. . f leght r. light . p. . l. . f. the spirit of a man , r. the spirit of a natural man. l . f. is r. not . p. . l . f. springing r. spring . p. . l . f. deserve r. discern . p. . l . for knows the things of god , r. knows not the things of god. l. . f. ligh read light . p. . l. . f ligh r. light p. . l. . f. is r. his . p. l. f. game r. gaime . l. . where ever is twice , blot out the one . p. . l. . f. overshipping r. overskippng p. l . f. luke the tenth , r. luke the first . p. . l. . f. sad r. said . p. l. . f. without r. with our . p. l . blot out deserves line for seems read serves . the end . some scriptures which overturns wiggan's assertions . god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believes on him should not perish , but have everlasting life . i have no pleasure in the death of him that sinneth . i have no pleasure in the death of the wicked . if any of you lack wisedome , let him ask of god , who giveth to all men liberally , and upbraideth no man. god hath made of one blood all nations of men , perverse disputings of men of corrupt mindes . evil men shall wax worse and worse . tim. . . christ is a light to lighten the gentiles . luke . . salvation of god is sent unto the gentiles . the grace of god which brings salvation hath appeared to all men. titus . . they turned the grace of god into lasciviousness . the worlds were made by the word of god. by the word of god the heavens were of old . as many that corrupted the word of god. in christ dwells all the fulness of the god-head bodily . the true light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world. i am the light of the world saith christ , so christ is that light which shines in darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not . god commanded light to shine out of darkness , and shined in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ . i am the light of the world ( saith christ ) they that fellowes me shall not abide in darkness , but shall have the light of life , believe in the light while yee have the light , that yee may be the children of the light. such as rebels against the light , men love darkness rather then light , every one that doth evil hates the light , neither doth he bring his deeds to the light , lest his deeds should be reproved , and every one that doth truth , brings his deeds to the light , that he may see whether his deeds be wrought in god , but jo. wig. saith , the light is not salvation , contrary to david , psal . . the lord is my light and my salvation , who then shall i fear . jo. wiggan saith , the light doth not reprove the sin of unbelief , contrary to paul to the ephesians ( who saith ) whatsoever is reproved is manifest in the light , and so this is plain that unbelief is manifest by the light. but there is a spirit in man , and the inspiration of the almighty giveth understanding . the dust turn to the earth , & the spirit to the lord that gave it . they also that have erred in spirit shall come to understanding , they that murmured shall learn doctrine . thus saith the lord , he that created the heavens and stretched them out , he that spreadeth forth the earth , and that which cometh out of it , he that giveth breath unto the people , and spirit to them that walk therein . gods saving health among all nations , let all people praise the lord , let all people praise the lord , let all nations praise the lood and sing , but jo. vvig . speaks contrary to david , how can gods saving health be among all nations when they have not the saving-light . look unto me all the ends of the earth , and be saved , for i am god , and there is none else . but jo. wiggan saith , they have nothing but a created light , that is darkness , mat. . . oh jerusalem wash thy heart from wickedness that thou maist be saved , how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee . all flesh shall know that i am thy salvation , but how can all flesh know his salvation , when they have not the spirit , as j. wig. affirmeth . this is good and acceptable in the fight of god our saviour , who will have all men to be saved , and to come to the knowledge of the truth , but jo. wiggan saith , god denyes faith to some men : and so gives god the lye , and saith christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light. and with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them , that perish because they receive not the truth in the love of it , that they might be saved . but how can they obey the spirit and truth , when they have it not , may jo. wiggan say , i will that men pray every where lifting up holy hands . but were thy hands holy j. vv. when thou laidst such violent hands upon me , tho. curwen , and thy spirit of god. turn yee at my reproof , and i will pour out my spirit unto you , i will put my spirit within you . i will put my spirit within you , and will make you a new heart , and a new spirit — such as vexes the spirit — the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh — but jo. vvig . maniests that he knows nothing of this warfare , who saith some hath not the spirit to war with , he that soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption , but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . — jo. vvig . that would not have the spirit in every man , its plain he soweth to the flesh , & not to the spirit , for he saith it is not within them : quench not the spirit . they erred in spirit . they have erred from the faith . and balaam erred from the spirit . shall receive a recompence of their error . rom. . the spirit of the lord came upon balaam . the spirit of the lord came upon saul . sam. . the spirit of the lord came upon the messengers of saul . and so this overthrowes vviggan's assertion , who saith wicked men have not the spirit . — all the while my breath is in me , and the spirit of god is in my nostrils , christ is the saviour of the world , and giveth unto the world. — my flesh i will give for the life of the vvorld , joh. . . go yee into all the vvorld , and preach the gospell , mark . they that believe shall be saved , but they that believe not shall be damned . i am the light of the vvorld . i am not come to judge the vvorld , but to save the vvorld . ioh. . that the vvorld may believe that thou hast sent me . — god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , cor. this is condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men loved darkness rather then light , because their deeds are evil . i am come a light into the world. joh. . done despite against the spirit of grace . hebr. . but they rebel'd and vext his holy spirit , therefore the lord became their enemy . ifai . . . vers . zach. . the spirit of the lord remain'd among the children of israel . i will pour out my spirit upon all flesh , for i have poured out my spirit upon the house of israel , saith the lord god. so here thou may see they that erred from the faith , and erred from the spirit , and hated the light , had it . — contrary to vviggan's doctrine aforemention'd . — did not i make one ? yet had he the residue of my spirit , that he might seek a godly seed , therefore take heed unto the spirit . the gospel which yee have heard , which was preached to every creature under heaven . — warning every man , that they might present every man perfect in christ jesus . — that by the grace of god christ should tast of death for every man. — christ is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. — and many more scriptures might be aledged , which doth overthrow wiggan's assertions that proves wicked men had the light , and the spirit , and christ dyed for all men. john vviggan , in stead of answering to the assertions , thou tels us of a natural and created light , springing up with man's nature , and natural man's spirit , which is an idol worse then jeroboams and the papists ; nevertheless thou saist this light will let them know much of god , and of the eternal power and god-head . now that this light which is an idol will shew the eternal power and god-head , and yet shew nothing of christ in whom the fulness of the god-head dwells . — how stands this together john — and can a natural light , an idol know the eternal power and god-head , know much of god , and seek and feel after god — idols are dumb , haba . . and hath eyes and sees not , as the scriptures faith , and was this natural light an idol , which reproved them for their sins ; doth not the scripture say adam was made in the image of god , in righteousness and true holiness , and was this an idol he was made in , which reproved him for sin : and judas who was made partaker of the ministry , and the light which john was sent to bear witness of , was a created light , and an idol , worse then jeroboams , which as many as received him ( that thou calls an idol which cannot hear nor see ) he gave them power to become the sons of god ; by this natural light and idol the world was made , by thy account ; and this which thou calls a natural light and idol , was in the world , and the world knew him not , and this light which thou thus calls , shines in the darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not . this is wiggan's assertion , but my queries i sent unto thee , which thou shufles of , and dost not answer them , since thou talks so much of bread and wine ; whether it be christ or no ? seeing some of thy fellow baptists teachers are turned papists , who were wrangling against the light , and now say the bread is christ , after they have blest it , and therefore we suspect thee , seeing thou art posting on the same rode against the light , so fast . and instead of answering , thou hast taken upon thee to be a judge of christ , a judge of the world , and a judge of the saints conditions ; and confusedly patches all together , and thou divides god and christ , and calls christ the light a natural and a created light , and an idol worse then jeroboams , and the papists , which all sober people may see what a pack of confusion thou hast heaped together in thy book , for a natural light and idol cannot bring people to seek and feel after god , nor know the eternal power and god-head , neither was it a natural light and idol that shewed judas his sin when he had betrayed christ , neither was the image of god which adam was made in ; and god the word that enlightens every man that comes into the world , a natural light and an idol . john wiggan , thy eye is blinded , it is time for thee to give over thy trade , with thy erroneous principles and doctrine . and christ when he bid them believe in the light , joh. . it was not an idol he bid them believe in , but it was in christ the light , and in christ was life , and the life was the light of mon , and this was not an idol , and this is the same principle and doctrine which we suffer for , there was a man sent from god whose name was john , he came for a witness , to bear witness to the true light , and that was the true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world , that all through him might believe , and as many as received him ( to wit ) the light wherewith all be enlightned , he gave them power to become the sons of god , joh. . to the . vers . and so this light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , shines in the darkness , but vviggan's darkness cannot comprehend it , and thus he judgeth the things of god with his darkness , in calling the light of christ , and also that which convinc'd adam , &c. a natural and created light , and an idol , and the spirit of a natural man which knows not the things of god , and also he compares the light in every man to the state of the natural man there spoken of , cor. . calling light darkness , and to the natural and sensual state in jude , for nature being subjected , is in it self not sensual , but being gone out of its course , becomes sensual ; but this is like to the rest of his meanings he hath given to other things in his book , but we do intend to put him to make them good by plain scriptures , without adding or diminishing ; for our foundation for ever stands sure , for we speak not of the natural mans spirit , but of christ the light , the second adam , the lord from heaven , nor do we speak of the law of works , nor the first covenant , but we speak of the new covenant in the heart christ the light our foundation , whom all the prophets foretold of , who is come to teach his people himself , who joh. vviggan pretends to remove , and so hath run himself into further confusion . and ioh. vviggan saith , that the light which doth enlighten , &c. is the word creator , and yet he saith it is natural and created , and an idol worse then ieroboams : and thus all may see he confesseth that the light is the word creator , and and yet he saith it is an idol : joh. wiggan saith , god the word enlightens every man that comes into the world , and a more excellent light and life comes in by the son , which none receives but who receives the son , and are born again . answ . they which receives this light which thou call the word creator , ( in thy own assertion ) becomes the sons of god ; for john said this was the true light which lighteneth every man that comes into the world , and as many as receives him to them , he gives power to become the sons of god , and this word is christ , as it is plainly proved ; and god was in christ , but thou goes about to divide god and christ : by the word of god was the heavens of old , pet. . . we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of god , heb. . . and that by this word they became the sons of god , according to the scriptures , before laid down , what difference then dost thou make betwixt this word creator , and that which comes in by the son , as thou speaks of , what can the son do more then make them sons : so herein thou hast quite overthrown thy self ; what further excellency , or what more redemption can be had by christ , then to become the sons of god. and whereas thou saist that we are adulterers , but we see that thou art adulterated from the spirit , which causes thee to vent forth such language as thou dost and thy hearers ; for whereas thou scornfully told william houlden , that he was an unfit man to meet thee before the sheriffe : thy assertions are so gross and so erroneous that i do not question but in the strength of god , i , or any other that were named to thee , to meet thee before either the sheriff , or any other in authority in england , that thou may make them good by scripture without either adding or diminishing , which thou canst not doe but over-throw thy own assertions : and whereas tho. rushton one of thy hearers said , i was a silly man , and was not fit to reply to what thou had written against me , but i having had perfect knowledge of thee this nine yeares , and how thou hast stood in opposition against the truth , christ the light ; that in his strength i stand to reply to thee , or to appear before the sheriff or any other in answer to thee . i fear the lord , and am not afraid of your great boasting and scornful reproachful words . henry wood. a postscript . how now john wiggan , didst not thou pretend at lancaster that thou couldst not swear , because it was a command of christ and the apostle which forbids swearing : and why could thou not bear testimony before the judge , but that then thou would have time to consider of it — though before thou had laid down thy reasons and arguments which thou intended to produce , which thou shewed to john stubs and others — and where was thy arguments and reasons when thou came before the judg hadst thou forgot them , that they stood thee in no stead , but that thou must have time to consider of it ; it seemes thy arguments and reasons did not satisfie thy self , or else thou jugled , or durst not confesse christs doctrine openly , or otherwise fainted esau like , and so was ashamed of christ and his doctrine before men : and did not john vviggan enter his recognizance for his appearance at the next assizes at lancaster and what is the matter john — how hast thou given the slip from under sufferings ? hath the heat of persecution scortched thy blade . furthermore did not john wiggan enter into a promise before the judg that he would preach no more , and that he might have time to consider of the oath : and so upon this condition he was set at liberty , and to appear at the next assizes : and then did not john wiggan give the slip and goe to london ; and when he should have been at the assizes , he lay there in holes and corners , and preached and published his lyes against the truth : but truth hath sunk thee into the sea , and will meet with thee where ever thou goest . g. f. the copy of this last sheet was miscarried , and came not to the printers hand till the rest of the book was finished . the end notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e iohn wiggan ove throwes his assertions . notes for div a -e john wigans blasphemy . john wigan proved a blasphemer . j. w. proved a minister of darkness , and an idolater . notes for div a -e joh. . . ezek. . & . . james . . acts . . tim. . . tim. . . jude . heb. . . pet. . . cor. . . colos . . . joh. . . joh. . . cor. . joh. . john . . job . . job . . psal . . eccles . . isaiah . psal . . ezek. . , . . . thes . . isai . . jude . sam. . job . john . . . john . . chap. john . . john john . john . acts . mal. . . colo. . . heb. . joh. . . cor. . the articles of the faith of the church of christ, or, congregation meeting at horsley-down benjamin keach, pastor, as asserted this th of the th month, . keach, benjamin, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the articles of the faith of the church of christ, or, congregation meeting at horsley-down benjamin keach, pastor, as asserted this th of the th month, . keach, benjamin, - . [ ], - p. [s.n.], london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- doctrines. baptists -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the articles of the faith of the church of christ , or congregation meeting at horsley-down , benjamin keach , pastor , as asserted this th of the th month , . london ; printed in the year . to the congregation with whom i am a member ( and the unworthy overseer ) who are in god the father , and in our lord jesus christ ; grace , mercy and peace be multiplied . most dear and beloved in christ : i hope i can say ( with the holy apostle ) that you are by me dearly beloved , my joy , and my crown ; yea you are my honour , and in you i would rejoice , being the ornament of my poor ministry , by which the most of you have ( through the blessing of god ) been converted to jesus christ : and if you stand fast in the faith in one spirit , striving together for the faith of the gospel , and do adorn your profession , living in love , and endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , you will cause my latter days to be most sweet and comfortable to me , after all those troubles , sorrows , and reproaches i have met with , both from within and from without . evident it is god hath most eminently appeared to strengthen your hands : tho the archers have sorely grieved you , and shot at you , yet your bow abideth in strength ; and that the arms of your hands may still abide strong by the arm of the mighty god of jacob , shall be my continual prayers . my brethren , i here present you with that which you have so long waited for , and desired me to endeavour to do , viz. to state an account of the most concerning articles of your faith , which you have heard read , and have approved of , and which i thought good no longer to delay the doing of . ( . ) not knowing how soon i may put off this tabernacle , and therefore would leave behind me an account of that holy doctrine and order , in which through grace you are established ( for at your desire also i have drawn up the whole rules of your holy discipline , which you may have added unto this , and bound up together ) . ( . ) and the rather i have done this , because the general and more large confession of the faith of our churches , is now out of print ; but that is not all , for that being d. price , some cannot well purchase it . ( . ) and also that all men may see what our faith is , and that we differ not from our brethren who bear other names in any fundamental point or article of faith ; and that they may discern the difference between you and some that bear the same name with you . ( . ) tho you agree in the general with all other churches of the same faith , in all those articles there inserted , yet therein your whole faith is not comprehended , viz. that of imposition of hands upon baptized believers as such , and singing of god's praise , &c. because some of our churches dissent from us therein : yet my desire is you would nevertheless shew all tenderness , charity and moderation to such as differ from you in those cases , and not refuse communion with them ; and indeed your late sweet temper appears to be such , that i need not press you to this . all that i shall say more , is to entreat you to labour after holiness , and to awake out of sleep , that you may adorn your sacred profession , and prepare to meet the lord ; that as you have a good doctrine , you may also have a holy and good conversation ; and then we need not fear who can harm us , whilst we are followers of that which is good , o let us bear one with another . and if in any thing we differ , let us avoid all animosities . brethren , great things are near , watch and pray , look out and be ready . but at present i shall conclude with the words of the apostle , finally , brethren , farewel ; be perfect , be of good comfort , be of one mind , live in peace , and the god of love and peace shall be with you . so prays your unworthy brother , pastor , overseer , and servant , who earnestly desires your prayers , also , b. keach . from my house in freemans-lane by horsley-down , southwark . aug. . . that the following articles contain what the foresaid church believes concerning those truths asserted therein , we whose names are hereunto subscribed , do testify in the name and by the appointment of the whole congregation , the th day of the th month , commonly called august , . benjamin keach , pastor . benjamin stinton , teacher . john roberts , deacon . edward foley , deacon . joshua farrow , deacon . tho. stinton , deacon . john valley , deacon . isaac ballard , deacon . john hoar , sen. edward newbury , tho. turner , john seamor , ephraim wilcocks , james wilmott , daniel dines , richard thoubals , john weston , john clark , tho. ayers , john york , george starkey , sen. benj. harris , george starkey , jun. john beavis , tho. hill , joseph berry , william farmworth , joseph jennings , john fowle , sen. tho. fowle , john fowle , jun. henry skeer , john greensmith , jeremiah lions , william putman , nath. holden , william cattrel , tho. harvey , tho. richford , joseph worley , peter carter , william forister , sam. cox. john sparke , james king , william deale , simon agars , john hoar , jun. tho. gunning , william mais . the articles of faith of the church of christ meeting at horsley-down . of god , and of the holy trinity . i. we do believe , declare and testify , that there is but one only living and true god , who is a spirit infinite , eternal , immense and unchangeable in his being , wisdom , power , holiness , justice , goodness , truth and faithfulness . ii. that there are three persons in the godhead , the father , the son , and holy spirit ; and that these three are one god , the same in essence , equal in power and glory . of the decrees of god. iii. that the decrees of god are his eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will , whereby for his own glory he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass , even those evils that his wisdom and justice permits for the manifestation of the glory of those his attributes : and that god executes his decrees in the works of creation and providence . of creation . iv. that the works of creation are god's creating all things of nothing by his word of power , in six days , and all very good . that god created man male and female , after his own image , in knowledg , righteousness , and holiness , with power and dominion over the creatures . of god's providence . v. we believe that god's works of providence are his most holy , wise , and powerful preserving , and governing all his creatures , and their actions . of the holy scriptures . vi. we believe the holy scriptures of the old and new testament are the word of god , and are the only rule of faith , and practice ; all things being contained therein that are necessary for us to know concerning god , and our duty unto him , and also unto all men. that all persons ought to read , hear , and understand the holy scriptures . that the light of nature , and works of providence , tho they declare plainly there is a god , yet not so effectually as the holy scriptures ; nor can we know without them how , and in what space of time god created all things . neither came we any other ways but by the holy scriptures to the knowledg of christ the blessed mediator ; which indeed none can savingly know but by the word and spirit of god. of original sin. vii . we do believe , that god having created man , he entered into a covenant of life with him , upon the condition of perfect obedience ; making the first adam a common head to all his seed : and that our first parents being left to the freedom of their own will , fell from the estate wherein they were created , by eating of the forbidden fruit : and that adam being set up as a publick person , we all sinned in him , and fell with him into a state of sin , of wrath and misery ; the sinfulness of which state consists in the guilt of adam's first sin , the want of original righteousness , and the corruption of our whole nature : from whence all actual sins proceed , as water out of a filthy and an unclean fountain . so that not only by imputation all men became sinners in the first adam , but also as the same corrupt nature is conveyed to all his posterity , who descend from him in ordinary generation . by this sin all mankind lost the image of god , and communion with him , being liable to all the miseries of this life , and to death itself ; and also are dead in sins and trespasses , and obnoxious to the wrath of god , and the eternal pains of hell for ever . hence we say that all are conceiv'd and born in sin , and are the children of wrath , even the elect as well as others , being wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body , and utterly indisposed and disabled to do any thing that is spiritually good , and wholly inclined with a strong propensity to all things that are evil . of man's free-will . viii . we believe man in his state of innocency had freedom of will to do good ; but by the fall he hath utterly lost all that power and ability , being wofully depraved in all the faculties of his soul ; there being in the will and mind of all naturally much enmity against god , and a total aversion to him , and to every thing that is spiritually good ; loving darkness , and rebelling against the light. but when a man is renewed by divine grace , tho there is no force put upon the will , yet it is made willing , and acts freely , in the day of god's power : tho the work is not perfect in any faculty in the regenerate , nor will be in this life . of christ the mediator . ix . we believe that god having , out of his own meer good pleasure , and infinite love , elected some persons of the lost seed of the first adam unto everlasting life , from all eternity , did enter into a covenant of grace with the second person of the trinity , ( who was set up as the common head of all the elect ) to deliver them out of the state of sin and misery , and to bring them into a state of salvation and eternal happiness . that the second person in the godhead , ( being the eternal son of god , coessential , and coequal with the father ) according to that holy covenant and compact that was between them both , became man , or assumed our nature , and so was , and continueth to be god and man in two distinct natures , in one person for ever . and that he the son of god by his becoming man , did take unto him a true body , and reasonable soul , being conceived by the holy spirit in the womb of the virgin , and was born of her , yet without sin. of the offices of christ. x. we believe that the lord jesus christ , who is our redeemer , and the one blessed mediator between god and man , executeth a threefold office , both the office of a priest , the office of a king , and the office of a prophet . first , that he executeth the office of a priest , ( . ) in his once offering up himself a sacrifice , to satisfy divine justice , and to reconcile god to us , and us to god. ( . ) and in making continual intercession for us , that the merits of his blood may be made effectual unto us . secondly , that he executeth the office of a king in subduing us unto himself , and in giving us laws and holy precepts , by which we ought to walk ; and also in his restraining and conquering all his , and our enemies . thirdly , that he executeth the office of a prophet , in revealing to us by his word and spirit , the whole will of god concerning all things that appertain to faith and practice . of christ's humiliation and exaltation . xi . we believe that christ's humiliation consisted in that great condescension of his in assuming our nature , and being born in a low condition , made under the law , undergoing the many miseries of this life , the wrath of god , the curse of the law , and the ignominious death of the cross , continuing under death for a time . and that his exaltation consisteth in his rising again from the dead the third day , and in his ascending up into heaven , in sitting at the right-hand of god ; angels , powers , and principalities being made subject unto him ; and in his being made judg of the quick and dead . of effectual calling . xii . we do believe that we are made partakers of the redemption purchased by christ , by the effectual application of his merits , &c. unto us by the holy spirit , thereby uniting us to christ in effectual calling : and that effectual calling is the work of god's free grace , who by his spirit works faith in us , who are altogether passive therein ; and convincing us of sin and misery , enlightning our minds in the knowledg of christ , and renewing our wills , and changing our whole hearts , he doth perswade and enable us to imbrace jesus christ freely , as he is offered in the gospel . of justification . xiii . we do believe justification is a free act of god's grace , through that redemption which is in christ , ( who , as our head , was acquitted , justified , and discharged , and we in him , when he rose from the dead ) and when applied to us , we in our own persons are actually justified , in being made and pronounced righteous , through the righteousness of christ imputed to us ; and all our sins , past , present , and to come , for ever pardon'd ; which is receiv'd by faith alone . and that our sanctification , nor faith it self , is any part of our justification before god ; it not being either the habit , or act of believing , or any act of evangelical obedience imputed to us , but christ , and his active and passive obedience only , apprehended by faith : and that faith in no sense tends to make christ's merits more satisfactory unto god ; but that he was as fully reconciled and satisfied for his elect in christ by his death before faith as after ; otherwise it would render god only reconcileable , ( not reconciled ) and make faith part of the payment or satisfaction unto god , and so lessen the merits of christ , as if they were defective or insufficient . yet we say , it is by faith that we receive the atonement , or by which means ( as an instrument ) we come to apprehend and receive him , and to have personal interest in him , and to have our free justification evidenced to our own consciences . of adoption . xiv . we believe adoption is an act of god's free grace , whereby such who were the children of wrath by nature , are received into the number , and have right to all the privileges of the sons of god ; and that such who are adopted , are also by the spirit regenerated , and hence said to be born of god. of sanctification . xv. that sanctification is the work of god's free grace also , whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of god , and are inabled more and more to die unto sin , and live unto righteousness . and that the benefits we receive , and which flow from or accompany justification , are adoption , sanctification , peace of conscience , manifestations of god's love , joy in the holy ghost , an increase of grace , an assurance of eternal life , and final perseverance unto the end . of the souls of men at death . xvi . we believe , that at death the souls of believers are made perfect in holiness , and do immediately pass into glory ; and their bodies dying in union with christ , or dying in the lord , do rest in their graves till the resurrection , when they shall be raised up in glory . and that their souls being reunited to their bodies , they shall be openly acknowledged , and acquitted , and made compleatly blessed , both in soul and body , and shall have the full injoyment of god to all eternity . and that the souls of the wicked at their death are cast into hell , or are in torment : and that their bodies lie in the grave under wrath , and shall by virtue of the power of christ be raised from the dead ; and their souls being re-united to their bodies , shall be judged and condemned , and cast into a furnace of fire , or into unspeakable torment , with the devil and his angels , for ever and ever . of the law. xvii . we believe god requires obedience of man , and that the rule of that obedience is the moral law as it is in the hands of christ ; which teacheth all persons their duty to god , and to man ; the sum of all being this , to love the lord our god with all our hearts , with all our souls , and with all our strength , and our neighbours as our selves . and that tho the law is abolished as a covenant of works , and as so considered , we are dead to it , and that dead to us ; yet it remains as a rule of life and righteousness for ever . xviii . we believe no mere man , since the fall , is able in this life perfectly to keep the holy law of god ; and that every offence against the law deserves eternal death , tho some sins are more heinous in god's sight than others . and that god , as a simple act of mercy , will not , doth not , pardon any man ; neither doth it seem consistent with his holiness and justice so to do , without a full satisfaction : wherefore he substituted christ in our room and stead , perfectly to keep the whole law , and to die , or bear that wrath which we deserved for our breaking of it ; he being pleased in his infinite love and grace to transfer our sins , guilt and punishment , upon his own son , ( who took our nature upon him , as our blessed head and representative ) that his active obedience and righteousness might be our just title unto eternal life ; and his death ( who bore our hell-torments ) be our full discharge from the wrath of god , and eternal condemnation . and that all who would receive this title , and have this discharge so as to escape god's wrath , and the curse of the law , must fly to christ , and lay hold on him by faith ; which faith is known by its fruits , having lively , sin-killing , soul-humbling , self-abasing , christ-exalting , and heart-purifying operations , always attending it . of faith and repentance . xix . we believe that faith is a saving grace , or the most precious gift of god ; and that it is an instrument whereby we receive , take hold of , and wholly rest upon jesus christ , as offered to us in the gospel . that repentance unto life is also a saving grace , whereby a sinner , out of a true sense of sin , and apprehension of god's mercy in christ , doth with grief and hatred of his sins , turn from them . and that tho repentance is in order of nature called the first principle of the doctrine of christ , yet we believe no man can savingly repent , unless he believes in jesus christ , and apprehends the free pardon and forgiveness of all his sins through the blood of the everlasting covenant , and the sight and sense of god's love in a bleeding saviour ; being that only thing that melts and breaks the stony heart of a poor sinner , as the sight of a free pardon from a prince humbles the stout heart of a rebellious malefactor . of the means of grace . xx. we believe that the outward and more ordinary means , whereby christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption , are his holy ordinances , as prayer , the word of god , and preaching , with baptism , and the lord's supper , &c. and yet notwithstanding it is the spirit of god that maketh prayer , reading , &c. and specially the preaching of the word , effectual to the convincing , converting , building up , and comforting , through faith , all the elect of god unto salvation . and that it is the duty of all , that the word may become effectual to their salvation , to attend upon it with all diligence , preparation , and prayer , that they may receive it with faith and love , and lay it up in their hearts , and practise it in their lives . of baptism . xxi . we believe that baptism is a holy ordinance of christ , or a pure gospel-institution ; and to be unto the party baptized , a sign of his fellowship with christ in his death , burial , and resurrection , and of his being grafted into him , and of remission of sins , and of his giving himself up to god , through jesus christ , to walk in newness of life . we also believe that baptism ought not to be administred to any but to those who actually profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ. that the infants of believers ought not to be baptized , because there is neither precept , or example , or any certain consequence in the holy scripture for any such practice : and we ought not to be wise above what is written . and that a human tradition or custom ought not to be regarded , but that it is sinful , and abominable . we believe also that baptism is only rightly administred by immersion , or dipping the whole body in water , into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy spirit ; according to christ's institution , and the practice of the apostles ; and not by sprinkling , or pouring of water , or dipping some part of the body in water , after the tradition of men. and that it is the indispensible duty of such who are baptized , to give up themselves to some particular orderly church of jesus christ , and to walk in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless : baptism being an initiating ordinance . of a true church . xxii . we believe a true church of christ is not national , nor parochial , but doth consist of a number of godly persons , who upon the profession of their faith and repentance have been baptized , and in a solemn manner have in a holy covenant given themselves up to the lord , and to one another , to live in love , and to endeavour to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace : among whom the word of god is duly and truly preach'd ; and holy baptism , the lord's supper , and all other ordinances are duly administred , according to the word of god , and the institution of christ in the primitive church : watching over one another , and communicating to each other's necessities , as becometh saints ; living holy lives , as becomes their sacred profession ; and not to forsake the assembling themselves , as the manner of some is ; or to take leave to hear where they please in other places when the church is assembled , but to worship god , and feed in that pasture , or with that church , with whom they have covenanted , and given up themselves as particular members thereof . of laying on of hands . xxiii . we believe that laying on of hands ( with prayer ) upon baptized believers , as such , is an ordinance of christ , and ought to be submitted unto by all such persons that are admitted to partake of the lord's supper ; and that the end of this ordinance is not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , but for a farther reception of the holy spirit of promise , or for the addition of the graces of the spirit , and the influences thereof ; to confirm , strengthen , and comfort them in christ jesus ; it being ratified and established by the extraordinary gifts of the spirit in the primitive times , to abide in the church , as meeting together on the first day of the week was , act. . . that being the day of worship , or christian sabbath , under the gospel ; and as preaching the word was , acts . . and as baptism was , mat. . . and prayer was , acts . . and singing psalms , &c. was , acts . , . so this of laying on of hands was , acts . & ch . . for as the whole gospel was confirmed by signs and wonders , and divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost in general , so was every ordinance in like manner confirmed in particular . of the lord's supper . xxiv . we believe that the holy ordinance of the lord's supper , which he instituted the night before he was betrayed , ought to be observed to the end of the world ; and that it consisteth only in breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , in remembrance of christ's death ; it being appointed for our spiritual nourishment , and growth in grace , and as a farther engagement in , and to all duties we owe to jesus christ , and as a pledg of his eternal love to us , and as a token of our communion with him , and one with another . and that due preparation and examination is required of all that ought to partake thereof ; and that it cannot be neglected by any approved and orderly member without sin. of church-officers . xxv . we do believe that every particular church of christ is independent ; and that no one church hath any priority or super-intendency above or over another : and that every church ought to be organical : that an elder , or elders , a deacon , or deacons , ought to be elected in every congregation , according to those holy qualifications laid down in the word of god : and that the said elders and deacons so chosen , ought solemnly to be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership . that such churches as have not officers so ordained , are disorderly , there being something still wanting . of prayer . xxvi . we believe prayer is a holy ordinance of god , and that it ought to be performed by the help and assistance of the holy spirit ; and that not only the prayer christ taught his disciples , but the whole word of god is to be our rule how to pray , and pour forth our souls unto god : and that it is the indispensible duty of all godly families ( and others also ) as well as private christians , daily to pray for all things they need , and to give thanks every day for all good things they receive : and that the omission of this duty is a great scandal to religion , and a great evil when it is carelesly or negligently performed . of singing of psalms , &c. xxvii . we believe that singing the praises of god , is a holy ordinance of christ , and not a part of natural religion , or a moral duty only ; but that it is brought under divine institution , it being injoined on the churches of christ to sing psalms , hymns , and spiritual songs ; and that the whole church in their publick assemblies ( as well as private christians ) ought to sing god's praises , according to the best light they have received . moreover , it was practised in the great representative church , by our lord jesus christ with his disciples , after he had instituted and celebrated the sacred ordinance of his holy supper , as a commemorative token of redeeming love. of the christian sabbath . xxviii . we believe that one day in seven , ought to be solemnly observed in the worship of god ; and that by moses's law the jews and proselyted strangers were to keep the seventh day : but from the resurrection of christ the first day of the week ought by all christians to be observed holy to the lord , that being called the lord's day ; and the first time the church met together after christ's ascension was on the day of pentecost , which was the first day of the week , as tradition hath handed it down : and on that day the church also met together to break bread , and make collections for the poor saints : and no mention is made that any one gospel-church kept the jewish sabbath in all the new testament . and we believe that an apostolical precedent is equivalent to an apostolical precept in this case . of ministers , and their maintenance . xxix . we do believe that every brother that hath received a gift to preach , having first pass'd the probation of the church , and being regularly called by the same , ought to exercise the said gift to the edification of the church when desired ; and that no brother ought to take upon him to preach , until he has a lawful call so to do . moreover , we believe that it is the indispensible duty of every church , according to their ability , to provide their pastor , or elders , a comfortable maintenance ; as god hath ordained , that he that preaches the gospel , should live of the gospel , and not of his own labour ; but that he should wholly give himself up to the work of the ministry , and to watch over the flock , being to be freed from all secular business , and encumbrances of the world : and yet that it is abominable evil for any man to preach the gospel for filthy lucre sake , but he must do it of a ready mind . of the first covenant . xxx . we believe that the first covenant , or covenant of works , was primarily made with adam , and with all mankind in him , by virtue of which he stood in a justified state before the fall , upon the condition of his own perfect and personal obedience . but by the fall he made himself uncapable of life by that covenant . that the law god gave by moses to israel , was of the same nature of that given to adam , being a second ministration of it ; but not given for life , but to make sin exceeding sinful , and to shew how unable man was in his fallen state to fulfil the righteousness of god ; and so ( with the ceremonial law ) it was given in subservienty to the gospel , as a schoolmaster to bring sinners to christ. of the new and second covenant . xxxi . we believe the covenant of grace was primarily made with the second adam , and in him with all the elect , who as god-man , or mediator , was set up from everlasting as a common person , or as their head and representative ; who freely obliged or ingaged himself to the father for them , perfectly to keep the whole law in their nature that had sinned , and to satisfy divine justice by bearing their sins upon his own body , i. e. the guilt of all their sins , which were laid upon him : and that he sustain'd that wrath and curse in his body and soul , that was due to them for all their transgressions : and having received their discharge from wrath and condemnation , he gives it out to all that believe in him , and obtain union with him , who are thereby brought actually into the said new covenant , and have a personal right to all the blessings thereof . of election . xxxii . we do believe that god from all eternity , according unto the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably decreed and ordained , for the manifestation of his own glory , some angels , and some of the lost sons and daughters of adam , unto eternal life ; and that their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished : and that others are left or passed by under a decree of preterition . and that those of mankind that are predestinated and fore-ordained , are particularly and personally design'd unto eternal life : and these god , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and good pleasure of his will , did chuse in christ ( the head of this election ) unto everlasting glory , of his meer free grace , without any foreseen faith or obedience and perseverance therein , or any thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto ; and all this only to the praise of his own glorious grace . of final perseverance . xxxiii . we believe all those whom god hath chosen , and who are effectually called , justified , and sanctified in jesus christ , can neither totally , nor finally fall away from a state of grace ; but shall certainly persevere therein unto the end , and eternally be saved ; and this by virtue of their election , or the immutable decree of god , and the unchangeable love of god the father ; and by virtue of their union with christ , together with his death , resurrection , and intercession ; as also from the nature of the covenant of grace , and suretyship of christ ; and through the indwelling of the holy spirit , who abideth in them for ever . of the resurrection . xxxiv . we believe that the bodies of all men , both the just and vnjust , shall rise again at the last day , even the same numerical bodies that die ; tho the bodies of the saints shall be raised immortal and incorruptible , and be made like christ's glorious body : and that the dead in christ shall rise first . of eternal judgment . xxxv . we believe that god hath appointed a day in which he will judg the world in righteousness by jesus christ , or that there shall be a general day of judgment , when all shall stand before the judgment-seat of christ , and give an account to him for all things done in this body : and that he will pass an eternal sentence upon all , according as their works shall be . of marriages . xxxvi . we believe marriage is god's holy ordinance , that is to say between one man and one woman : and that no man ought to have more than one wife at once : and that believers that marry , should marry in the lord , or such that are believers , or godly persons ; and that those who do otherwise , sin greatly , in violating god's holy precept : and that ministers as well as others may marry ; for marriage is honourable in all . of civil magistrates . xxxvii . we do believe the supream ▪ lord of heaven and earth hath ordained magistrates for the good of mankind : and that it is our duty in all civil and lawful things to obey them for conscience sake ; nay , and to pray for all that are in authority , that under them we may live a godly and peaceable life : and that we ought to render unto cesar the things that are cesar's , and to god the things that are god's . of lawful oaths . xxxviii . we do believe it is lawful to take some oaths before the civil magistrate ; an oath of confirmation being to put an end to all strife : nay , and that it is our duty so to do when lawfully called thereunto : and that those that swear , ought to swear in truth , in righteousness , and in judgment . of personal propriety . xxxix . we do believe that every man hath a just and peculiar right and propriety in his own goods , and that they are not common to others ; yet we believe that every man is obliged to administer to the poor saints , and to the publick interest of god , according to his ability , or as god hath blessed him . finis . postscript . there is something contained in the th article that may seem to want some explication , in these words ( speaking of a man actually and personally justified ) that his sins past , present , and to come , are all forgiven : we believing that if any sins of a justified person were afterwards charged upon him , it must of necessity make a breach in his unalterable and everlasting justification , which is but one act in god ; hence there is no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus : yet i find an able and worthy writer distinguisheth pardon of sin thus , viz. . fundamentally in christ , as a common person of all the elect before faith , which lieth in christ making full satisfaction for all their sins , meriting faith for them , &c. . actual , of all the elect in christ on believing ; this actual pardon being nothing else but the actual possession in their own persons of their fundamental pardon in the person of christ : and dr. tho. goodwin speaks to the same purpose , to which i agree . and that this actual pardon of the legal guilt is twofold . . formal , of all their sins past , removing their legal guilt . . virtual , of all their sins to come , preventing their legal guilt . dr. ames speaks to the same purpose , and many others . i cannot see how a believer should be for ever formally justified from all sins past , present , and to come , and yet not formally pardoned . this author which i have lately met with , distinguisheth well between legal guilt and gospel guilt ; the first obliging to divine wrath , or eternal punishment ; the latter , i. e. gospel guilt , obliging to gospel , or fatherly chastisement for gospel-sins . now i see not but that as soon as a believer is personally justified , all his sins , tho not yet committed , as to legal guilt , or vindictive wrath , i. e. that guilt that obliges to eternal condemnation , are pardoned , for the reason before . saith he , virtual pardon : keeps off legal guilt where it would be . to which i reply , if it be kept-off , so that it never comes upon believers , then it follows they were actually pardon'd before in that respect : yet he says , sins cannot be said to be formally pardon'd before formally committed ; but says , no guilt can come upon them to condemnation , tho new guilt ; yet no new legal guilt , because always justified . we see no hurt if his terms be admitted . object . what do believers then pray for , when they pray for the pardon of sin ? answ. . that god would not chastise them sorely , or afflict them as a father , according to the greatness of their offences . . that if his chastning hand is upon us , he would be pleased graciously to remove it . . that he would be pleased to clear up to our consciences , or give us the evidence of our pardon through christ's merits , and that we may know we are compleat in christ , or without spot before the throne in our free justification . . nay , believers are to pray to god to remove that sin from them ( saith this worthy author ) whose desert of punishment cannot be removed from it ; and to spread their sins before the lord in the highest sense of the deepest demerit of all legal punishment , so that they may put the higher accent upon the free grace of god , and estimate upon the full satisfaction of christ , whereby their persons are so fully freed from all actual obligation to any legal punishment , the whole and utmost whereof their sins deserve . . moreover , that god would continue , and never revoke his most gracious pardon , till he pronounceth the final sentence of it at the day of judgment , ( as well this author notes ) for a renewed sense and assurance of its grant and continuance : and thus to pray , saith he , there are both precepts and promises . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e joh. . . job . , , . psal. . . jam. . . exod. . . rev. . . deut. . . exod. . , . mat. . . joh. . . eph. . , . rom. . , . gen. . heb. . . gen. . , , . col. . . eph. . . tim. . . eph. . . joh. . . deut. . . rev. . . acts . . gen. . & . , . job . . , . & . . gen. . , . eccl. . . rom. . . joh. . . tit. . . rom. . . gen. . . jer. . . rom. . , , , , , &c. jam. . . cor. . . rom. . . rom. . . col. . . mat. . . rom. . , , , , , . lam. . . rom. . . gal. . . job . . & . . & . . col. . . tit. . . psal. . . eph. . , . gen. . . rom. . , , , , , , . ephes. . , . rom. . . job . . ephes. . . col. . . psal. . . rom. . , , , , . ephes. . . rom. . , , . gal. . , . tim. . , . joh. . . galat. . . rom. . . luke . . col. . . heb. . , . phil. . . zech. . . joh. . . tim. . . heb. . . mat. . , . luke . , , , ● . gal. 〈…〉 . heb. 〈…〉 . tim. . . heb. . . heb. . . act. . , , . joh. . . heb. . . & . . & . . isa. . . & . , . cor. . . psal. . acts . . joh. . . pet. . , , . joh. . . & . . gal. . . heb. . . isa. . , . luk. . . mat. . phil. . . cor. . . acts . , , , , . cor. . . mark . . eph. . . acts . . & . . pet. . . joh. . . tit. . , . eph. . , . cor. . . eph. . . eph. . . cor. . . tim. . . thess. . , . acts . . & . . ezek. . . john . , . rom. . , , , . eph. . , . tit. . . rom. . , , , . cor. . . cor. . act. . . cor. . . phil. . , , . rom. . . john . . john . . rom. . . gal. . . john . , . & . . & . . thess. . . eph. . . rom. . , ● . rom. . , . rom. . , , . & . . prov. . joh. . . pet. . . cor. . . mat. . mat. . joh. . . cor. . . thess. . , . cor. . , phil. . . . luk ● pet. . , . luke . , . acts . . pet. . ps. . . john . , . thess. . , . mich. . . sam. . . rev. . . mat. . mat. . , , , . joh. . . rom. . , gen. . . rom. . , , , , &c. ezek. . . joh. . ps . , , . exod. . rom. . , . gal. . . isa. . , , , , . pet. . . rom. . . john . . john . , . heb. . , , . col. . . acts . . acts . . job . . pet. . . john . . john . . isa. . , . phil. . . ephes. . . acts . . joh . . jer. . . & . , . ezek. . . cor. . . isa. . , heb. . , . zic . . . acts . . mat. . , . acts . , , . neh. . . cor. . , . acts . psal. . . rom. . , . acts . rom. . , , , , . prov. . . pet. . , . ps. . heb. . . thess. . . jam. . . pet. . cor. . . mat. . , . rom. . , , . col. . , . gal. . . acts . . & . . acts . . col. . , . rev. . prov. . . mat. . , . mat. . . joh. . . acts . . rom. . . col. . . acts . , . & . , . pet. . . luke . . acts . , , . eph. . . acts . , , , , , , , &c. cor. . , . heb. . . heb. . . & , , . acts . & . . eph. . , . acts . & . heb. . , . mat. . , , . mark . , , . luke . , . cor. . , , , , . acts . . tim. . , , &c. tit. . . tim. . — . tit. . , , , . acts . . tim. . . & . . phil. . . psal. . . john . . pet. . . rom. . . john . . psal. . . eccl. . , . jam. . . eph. . . cor. . . col. . . josh. . . gen. . . jer. . . eph. . . col. . . acts . heb. . . jam. . . mat. . mar. . exod. . rev. . . act. . , . acts . . cor. . tim. . . eph. . . pet. . rom. . , . cor. . — . rom. . . gal. . . tim. . . pet. . . gen. . . rom. . . rom. . . & . to . rom. . , . cor. . , . rom. . , , , , , , . gal. . zech. . . rom. . , , , . isa. . , , , . rom. . . heb. . , , . heb. . ● luk. ● cor. . ● rom. . . & . , , ● . rom. . , , . acts . . rom. . . thess. . , . eph. . , , . ● thess. . . rom. . , , , . joh. . , . rom. . , ▪ rom. . ● ▪ , ● tim. . ● cor. . . acts . . cor. . . eccles. . gen. . . mat. . . cor. . . eph. . . rom. . . heb. . . rom. . , , . tit. . . pet. . . mat. . . exod. . . jer. . . gen. . . neh. . . heb. . , . exod. . . acts . . & . . notes for div a -e rom. . . mr. tho. gilbert . dr. ames saith , that not only the sins of a justif●●● person that are past are remitted , but also in some sort these to come , num. . . joh. . . yet he distinguishes between a formal and virtual pardon : sins past , says he , are remitted to themselves , sins to come , in the subject or person sinning . the display of glorious grace, or, the covenant of peace opened in fourteen sermons lately preached, in which the errors of the present day about reconciliation and justification are detected / by benjamin keach. keach, benjamin, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[ ], xvi, p. : port. printed by s. bridge, and sold by mary fabian ... joseph collier ... and william marshall ..., london : . errata: p. vii. reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng covenant theology -- sermons. baptists -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion benjamin keach minister of the gospel aetat . . j. drapentier del in : et sculp . the display of glorious grace : or , the covenant of peace , opened . in fourteen sermons lately preached , in which the errors of the present day , about reconciliation and justification , are detected . by benjamin keach . psal. lxxxix . . my covenant will i not break , nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. london , printed by s. bridge , and sold by mary fabian , at mercers-chappel in cheapside ; and joseph collier , at the golden-bible on london-bridge , by the gate ; and william marshall , at the bible in newgate-street , . to the unprejudic'd reader . as i preach not to please mens ears , so but little regard ought to be had to the scoffing reflections of such men , who contemn every thing of this kind , unless it consists of a fancy-taking modelation of empty rhetorick , or a high florid stile , mixt with wit , learning , and philosophical notions . sad it is to see that in divine matters , nay , in preaching , persons should affect new modes and fashions , ( as to the shame of the present generation , they do in respect of garbs and dresses : ) i am not for airy and florid orations in the ministration of the word of god , but for that plain way of preaching used by the holy apostles , and our worthy modern divines . besides , could i so preach or write , as is the flesh-pleasing , ear-tickling a-la-mode of the times , of such who study words more than matter , it would be utterly dislik'd by all such pions christians , for whose sake , and at whose importunity these sermons are published . the holy apostle ( who tho profoundly learned ) disclaims any rhetorical flourishes , or perswasive oratory , but professes that his speech and preaching , was not with the inticing words of man's wisdom , but in the demonstration of the spirit , and with power , cor. . — i may say of some mens orations , or elocutions , as plutarch speaks of the nightingale , who was at first taken with his delicate notes , but when he saw him said , thou art a voice and nothing else . but alas , since the sacred scripture it self can't escape some mens censure , as if the stile was rude and unpolished , ( they being destitute of that spirit which gave them forth ; ) what can i expect to meet with from such ? reader , the great joy that generally appeared amongst all people upon the conclusion of the late peace , put me upon preaching on this subject ; and when i found so great a number of books subscribed for , i thought i had a call to print and publish them , which was the least of my thoughts when i first entered upon this work : and indeed i greatly fear , many will see their expectation frustrated , ( i mean such who did not hear the sermons preached , but only had some small account of them ; ) yet they knowing the author , i may see cause to recal what i speak of my fears . i must confess , divers worthy and learned men have wrote most excellently upon the covenant of grace , yet perhaps hardly any in the method here used , nor under the notions of a covenant of peace — in some things thou wilt find that i do differ from many learned men , who make the covenant of redemption , a distinct covenant from that of peace and reconciliation , yet i desire thee to read the tenth sermon before thou judgest who is in the right — by the baxterian party i expect to be called an antinomian , for that hath been their artifice of late , to expose the true ancient protestant doctrine about justification , &c. but others who are sound in the faith , will ( i am sure ) acquit me of that charge . my main design in all my preaching ( if i know my own heart ) is wholly to advance the free grace of god , through that redemption which is in jesus christ , and utterly to abase the creature , tho it may seem a hard thing to keep in an even line , and not fall into either extream : may be some may stumble at some expressions about god's being reconciled in christ to the elect whilst sinners — but sure they can't think that i mean because he is reconciled in the second adam , that therefore he is actually reconciled to any as they are considered in the first adam , and abide under god's denounced wrath and the curse of the law : i know i have been abused of late in print , by some on the other hand , but let all well weigh what i have said in my medium betwixt two extreams , and what is here said , and so receive satisfaction [ if in the judgment of any i have missed the truth in any material case ] i shall gladly receive information from such , and readily embrace it upon the evidence of truth : for , i confess , i see but a little , and the best know but in part — that which possibly may seem most distastful , is the frequent repeating of some things ; yet in so doing , i have followed the directions of a very great man , viz. that such things that are emphatical , should be often repeated to fix the matter the better on the mind of the hearer , or reader . besides , they come in occasionally upon different heads : and also i find the very same has been done by others , who are look'd upon as stars of the first magnitude : see the epistle to dr. manton's fourth volume , p. . where you have these expressions , viz. let it not offend thee that some things are repeated , which frequently happens in the course of any man's ministry , when the same subject has been formerly handled . moreover one reason of it might be , because of the different times of my preaching these sermons ; i being called oft to preach upon other subjects betwixt them ; neither do i think any thing is vnprofitably repeated , it being chiefly to refute the new prevailing errours about justification . reader , thou wilt find many of the essential points of the christian religion are handled in these sermons , ( tho but weakly , according to that small gift-received ; ) and also thou wilt see how vnjustly i have been misrepresented in an epistle to a certain book lately published — i do not say that thou hast all the enlargements here printed , as delivered when these sermons were preached , especially in some of them , for if i had so done , the book would have swelled too big , and indeed it exceeds now what i first proposed — but to conclude , if thou dost receive any light , spiritual profit , or advantage by thy perusing of these sermons , let thy care be to return the praise to the god of truth , and with charity to cover my weaknesses , and forget me not in thy prayers , who am now drawing towards the period of my labours and days . — but yet through god's grace at present remain thy servant in the gospel for christ's sake , from my house at horslydown , in freeman's-lane , this th of the d month , called may . b. keach . reader , there are some faults escaped the press , which thou art desired to mend with thy pen before thou readest . pag. . lin . . for author read orthodox . p. . l. . a figure is false plac'd , and also a false break , it should be . this oath , &c. p. . l. . r. which the law , &c. p. . l. . blot out thus , and l. . for win r. will , and l. . for creatures r. creature , p. , l. . for great r. greater , p. . l. . blot out the father , p. . l. . blot out the , p. . in the marginal note for 't is read this , p. . l. . there is a general head left out , r. . in opposition to that of works , and l. . blot out because ; the next general head is false also , for fourthly r. thirdly , and so for fifthly r. fourthly , &c. p. . l. . for his r. his wrath , wrath is left out . the table of the chief heads contained in this book . sermon i. i. the occasion of the author 's preaching upon this subject , p. , , , . ii. the text divided , and the terms explained , p. , , , . iii. the doctrine raised , and the general method proposed , containing six heads , viz. . eight explanatory propositions laid down by way of premise . . to open all the main covenant transactions concerning god's reconciliation to man , and man's reconciliation unto god. . open the nature of the covenant . . to shew what is given or granted to all believers in the covenant . . to open the excellent nature of the peace of the covenant . . the general application , p. . i. proposit. that god foresaw from eternity that a breach would arise between himself and mankind , p. . ii. prop. that this covenant was entered into betwixt god the father , and god the son , in behalf of the elect , p. . iii. prop. that the breach god foresaw would rise , would be very great , opened on man's part in particulars ; on god's part in particulars , p. , , , , . iv. prop. that the breach was occasioned by man's breaking the law of his creation , or the first covenant , p. , , . v. prop. that there was none in heaven or earth that could make up this breach save jesus christ , p. . vi. prop. god not irreconcileable , yet acts in a way of absolute soveraignty , p. , , . vii . prop. that this covenant alone proceeded from the grace of god , p. . viii . prop. that it also results from god's mercy to such as were consider'd in misery , p. serm. ii. secondly , the covenant transactions proposed to be opened , in general heads . i. a treaty held between god the father and the son about it . ii. an agreement between them in eternity . iii. the mediator of the covenant chosen , viz. jesus christ. iv. the ratification of the covenant . v. the proclamation , or proclaiming this peace . vi. when this peace did commence , and who are included in it , p. , . of the first of these , viz. the treaty , p. , , christ our covenanting-party , or representative in this treaty ; shewing why he is called the messenger of the covenant , in respects , p. , . secondly , why a mediator was chosen , and the necessity thereof , opened in particulars , p. , . the son of god did actually consent to answer all those proposals made by the father , p. . christ the mediator must be god , he must be man , he must be god-man , p. . to . what a mediator signifies , p. . and how christ was qualified ; with his whole work and office , in partic. p. . . serm. iii. further opening christ's work as mediator , in particulars , which makes the whole , p. , , &c. the application , p. , , . the offices of christ , king , priest , and prophet , &c. opened , p. . to . the baxterian errors what , and also answered ; christ paid our debts as a surety , and not as a priest , p. . mr. clark's errors detected , a grand baxterian , p. . to . serm. iv. the suretiship of christ opened in eight things , p. , . two grand objections answered , p. . . what suretiship imports , p. . to . . why christ became our surety , shewed for reasons , p. . . what he was to do , as our surety , shewed in nine particulars , p. . to . . shewing how his suretiship differs from suretiship among men , in three things , p. , , . a grand objection answered , p. . our debts are paid , and yet freely forgiven , shewed in respects , p. , . serm. v. the ratification of the covenant , ( . ) how between the father and the son , p. , . ( . ) by the death of christ , p. , . christ a testator ; what a testator signifies , p. . shewing why the covenant comes under the notion of a testament , or christ's last will , p. . a sevenfold vse of christ's death , p. , to . the use , p. , &c. . the proclamation of peace , what . . who god hath appointed to proclaim it . . the nature of the proclamation . . the terms upon which it is proclaimed , p. , . 't is the gospel , why it may be so called , opened in particulars , p. . to . what a kind of book the gospel is , shewed , in particulars , p. , . the use , p. , &c. serm. vi. who the ambassadors of peace are , viz. ( . ) christ himself the chief . shewed in particulars , p. , , . christ excellently qualified for an ambassador , shewed in particulars , p. . ( . ) christ's ministers are subordinate ambassadors ; six sorts of preachers are none of christ's ambassadors , p. , . proving christ's ministers are his ambassadors , and what their work is , opened in particulars , p. . to . ambassadors when welcome , shewed in respects , p. . to . the application , p. , &c. serm. vii . the nature of the gospel , or proclamation of peace , p. . . what it declares , shewed in five particulars , p , . . what it proclaims , viz. peace and good news by jesus christ , god in him being reconciled , p. . . to be proclaimed to all nations , p. . . free pardon for all sins save that against the holy ghost , p. . . a universal proclamation . an objection , did not christ die for all , largely answered , p. , , &c. christ no conditional redeemer , p. , why the proclamation runs so universal , p. . ( . ) shewing on what terms peace is offered to sinners , p. , , . the application , p. . serm. viii . . shewing the date of the covenant , or when it did commence , p. , . . and who comprehended in it . . the third general head of discourse , viz. the nature of the covenant opened . i. proving it is the covenant of grace , as well as of redemption , p. , . ( . ) in it self . ( . ) in opposition to the covenant of works , p. , . the difference between the covenant of grace , and covenant of works , opened in particulars , p. , to . ii. 't is an absolute covenant , shewed in things , p. , to . serm ix . iii. 't is a well ordered covenant , shewed in things , p. , . iv. 't is a glorious covenant , shewed in things , p. , , . v. 't is a full covenant , shewed in things , p. , to . vi. 't is a seasonable covenant , shewed in things , p. . ( . ) as to the time when provided , before man sinned . ( . ) as to the first revelation of it . ( . ) as to the time of the application of the balm of it to a convicted , or wounded sinner , p. , . vii . 't is a sure covenant , shewed in respects , p. , . viii . 't is a cov. of peace , p. , to . serm. x. ix . 't is a tried covenant , shewed in respects , p. . x. it is one intire covenant , largely proving the covenant of redemption , and covenant of grace essentially one and the same covenant , p. , to . the covenant of peace a covenant of greatest consolation , p. . also an everlasting covenant , p. . serm. xi . shewing the gifts , grants , and priviledges in the covenant to believers , p. . . god himself given as a cov. blessing , p. . how god comes to be our god , negatively shewed , in respects , p. . affirmatively , p. . what an amazing gift this is , shewed in particulars , p. , to . first , the good in god's communicable atbutes given and let out to us , p. , &c. secondly , the son is given to believers , p. thirdly , the holy spirit is given , all grace is given , other priviledges given , p. , . serm. xii . believers are god's people by virtue of the covenant , p. , . . in what respects called god's people , negatively in respects , p. , . in the affirmative , in respects , p. , &c. . what kind of people god's covenant-people are , shewed in partic. p. , to . . what a blessing it is to be god's people , in particulars , p. , . the application , p. , . serm. xiii . this peace opens a free trade to heaven , p. . sin stop'd up or interrupted all trade betwixt god and man , what this implies shewed , p. . what meant by a free trade shewed in things , p. , . this spiritual trade is opened by the peace made by christ , p. . we trade by or through a river , viz. the spirit , this river christ opened , p. . this trade the best trade , shewed in respects . ( . ) in the respect of the subject these merchandises inrich . ( . ) in respect of the things traded for . ( . ) in respect of the correspondent we trade with , p. ▪ . in respect of the terms upon which we trade , p. . ( . ) in respect of the subject , viz : the soul , shewed in things , p. , &c. ( . ) in respect of the nature of the things shewed , in particulars , p. , &c. . in respect of christ we trade with , shewed in things , p. , . ( . ) christ makes great returns , p. . ( . ) sure returns . ( . ) quick returns . ( . ) 't is a free trade without money , p. . the application , p. . all false dealers will break , and why , shewed in things , p. . who are rich traders , shewed in things , p. , . serm. xiv . a summary account of what is requisite to god's being at peace with man , and man with god , p. , &c. the nature of this peace opened , in fourteen particulars , p. , to . the general application , p. . christ the covenant , or the sum of the covenant of grace , shewed in eight respects , p. , to . how to know we have actual peace with god , shewed in particular , p. . . a needful caution about the elect being reconciled to god in christ whilst sinners , p. , . the blessed state of believers that possess peace , or are in a state of peace , p. , . the conclusion . the display of glorious grace or the covenant of peace opened : in several sermons . sermon i. isa. liv. x. latter part. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord , that hath mercy on thee . i have promised some brethren to enter upon the great subject of peace : not to treat of peace with men , but peace with god ; not national peace , but spiritual peace ; and that which partly put me upon the thoughts hereof , was , to see , and hear what great joy there is among us in this nation , and in other kingdoms and states , upon account of the peace lately concluded betwixt the french king and the confederate princes . i must confess national peace is a great blessing , when it is given in mercy , and it is sanctified , and well improved by those kingdoms and people that enjoy it but whether the present peace may be in mercy ( to the nations ) or in judgment , i know not ; time must discover that : alas ! what peace can such expect , who continue in rebellion against the god of heaven and earth ? what peace can such a people expect who are not humbled for those sins and abominations which caused the righteous and holy god to bring the plague of war and devastations upon them ? when the cause is not removed , what reason have we to think the effect will cease ? god may it is true , take off one rod , and yet chasten us with another ; if war and the pestilence humble us not , famine may be looked for . see what god speaks in levit. . . and if you walk contrary unto me , and will not hearken unto me , i will bring seven times more plagues upon you , according to your sins ; and ye shall eat the flesh of your sons , and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat , v. . a people may cry peace , peace ! when sudden destruction is just coming upon them . i may say of the nations of the earth , as jehu said to joram's messenger , what hast thou to do with peace ? what peace so long as the whoredoms of thy mother jezzabel , and her witchcrafts are so many ? what peace can such a nation or people look for , long to continue , whilst their horrid wickedness , prophaneness , cursed oaths , blasphemy , drunkenness , whoredom , pride , treachery , cruelty , cotousness , heresies , superstitions , and all manner of abominations abound amongst them ? know this assuredly god's anger is not yet turned away , but his hand is lifted up still . the seven last plagues will over a short time be poured forth ; and whatsoever you may think of the present peace , i fear worser things are near than what the earth hath seen or felt yet ; we are not fallen in such an age as to expect any long time of peace ; no , no! god hath a fearful controversie with the kingdoms of the earth ; babylon must fall , and sion must rise , and jesus christ shall reign and possess his visible kingdom . and tho reverend mr. beverly , in some respect , hath acknowledged himself mistaken , yet the church of god is greatly obliged to him for his elaborate pains , in his careful searching out the mystical numbers , so as to know the time of the end of the beasts reign and tyranny , and the passing away of the second wo. moreover , i am perswaded he hath out-done all that went before him , and may be the world will see in a short space , that he was not much mistaken as to the time. therefore it will be wisdom in all to forbear too hard censures of this worthy person : let us wait to see what will be produced by divine providence between this and the end of the year . no doubt but amazing revolutions are ready to break out in the earth . god will overturn , overturn , overturn , till he come whose right it is , viz. our lord jesus christ , and it shall be given unto him . things look abroad as if we may expect a religious war , and such an one doubtless , will be produced when god puts it into the hearts of the ten kings ( or some of them ) to hate the whore. so that from the whole we may expect god will yet take peace from the earth , tho blessed be his name , we enjoy a little repose at this time . but what may such princes and people expect , who having got peace from abroad , continue , or raise an open war against the lord and his people at home ; nay , shew their rage and malice ( more since ) in persecuting them than before . oh! that all of us may be stirred up to cry to the lord mightily for those poor people , and against their enemies , as they are foes and opposers , and make war against the lamb , and those that follow him : these things tend to cause me to conclude that the present peace in the european world may not last long . my brethren , peace made between kingdoms and nations may soon be broken or removed : but there is a peace which being made shall be lasting , and never be removed : and this brings me to the words of my text : for the mountains shall depart , and the hills be removed , but my kindness shall not depart from thee , neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee the text containeth a most gracious promise , in which are five things to be considered . i. who it is that makes this promise . ii. to whom the promise is made . iii. what is contained in the promise . iv. the spring or rise of the promise . v. the stability of the promise . i. it is god , the great god and father of mercy which makes this promise ; he that made and created us , see verse . for thy maker is thy husband , the lord of hosts is his name , the god of the whole earth shall he be called ; a promise of peace from such a king is worth regard , and to be prized by all to whom it is made . ii. this promise is made unto the gentile church , and therefore it wonderfully behoveth us to consider it , and lay the matter to heart ; some of those great promises contained in the writings of the prophets , do peculiarly refer to the jews , the natural seed of abraham , but this wholly and particularly respecteth the gentile church , as you may see if you read v. . sing o barren , thou that didst not bear , break forth into singing , and cry aloud thou that didst not travel . the jewish people were in a legal covenant married to the lord , and many among them were spiritually espoused unto him , and brought forth blessed fruit , the church of israel had a numerous off-spring ; but for a long period of time we poor gentiles were passed by , god espoused us not ; the gentiles were not married , or taken into a covenant relation with god until the times of the gospel , and it was upon the rejection , and casting off of the jews , that they were grafted in , as paul shews at large , rom. . now the reasons why the gentile people are called , or excited here to rejoyce and sing , may be these . . from what precedeth in the d. chapter , where mention is made of the sufferings , humiliation , and passion of our lord jesus christ. surely he hath born our griefs , and carried our sorrows , &c. ver . . he was wounded for our transgressions , he was bruised for our iniquities . for our iniquities , that is , for all the iniquities of gods elect , not only for them among the jews , but them also amongst the gentiles . therefore , sing o barren , sing ye poor gentiles , for jesus christ dyed for you , he bore your transgressions . . upon the consideration of the promise of the father to jesus christ in respect of them as well as any other , chap. . . he shall see his seed , or the travel of his soul , even them amongst the gentiles , as well as them amongst the jews ; i. e. he shall see all them for whom he died , brought into a covenant relation with himself , even married to him , and his own gracious image stampt upon them ; they shall be called , he shall see them converted , he shall enjoy them , and imbrace them in his arms , and they shall lie in his bosom . they are called upon to sing ( as i conceive ) in respect of that great and glorious priviledge of there being thus married to jesus christ , who before had no husband , for thy maker is thy husband . . from the consideration , she is delivered from the shame of being barren ; see ver . . cry aloud thou that didst not travel , &c. . upon the consideration of her numerous off-spring ; for more are the children of the desolate , than the children of the married wife , saith the lord , verse . enlarge the place of thy tents , and let them stretch forth the curtains , &c. verse . for thou shalt break forth on the right hand , and on the left. this shews , that there should be a multitude of the gentiles converted unto jesus christ ; yea , a far greater number than of the jews , which hath been made good in the gospel days , and will yet more abundantly in times that now draw very near , when the fulness of the gentiles shall be brought in : but o! how barren is she now , that once was the darling of heaven , and the only church and people of god ? hardly one jew to be found throughout the earth , that owns the true messiah , or is a believer , or a true christian. . because she shall never suffer shame any more , though for a short time she was forsaken , and seemed not to be regarded by the lord ; but being now espoused , she shall perpetually be beloved , and injoy christs special favour . . from the consideration of the covenant , that god has made with christs for them ; for the mountains shall depart , and the hills be removed , but my kindness shall not depart from thee , neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , &c. this brings me to the next thing . iii. which is , that which is contained in the promise , viz. peace , peace is a sweet blessing , peace with men is highly esteemed ; but this is peace with god which is far better , and exceeds all kind of peace whatsoever . yea peace by vertue of a covenant , a covenant made by god himself , the covenant of my peace , saith the lord. iv. we have the spring or rise of this promise , or the grand motive that moved god to enter into this covenant of peace , or to make this promise ; viz. his love and mercy , saith the lord , that hath mercy on thee . this shews , that the covenant of peace was founded for poor creatures who were in misery , or in a deplorable condition , man before his fall needed not gods mercy , he was the object of gods love and favour , but not of his mercy : for mercy extended to any person , denotes he was in a forlorn and miserable condition before ; and at that time when bowels of pity and compassion were moved towards him . v. we have here also the stability of the promise , the mountains that stand so fast shall , or may sooner depart , and the hills be removed , than this covenant of peace can be broken or he removed ; nay , and he that saith this , is the lord , the faithful , and true god , that cannot lie ; but to make it yet more firm , he hath sworn to his promise ; for as i have sworn that the waters of noah shall no more , go over the earth , so have i sworn that i would not be wrath with thee nor rebuke thee ; that is , not to forsake her utterly . so much shall suffice as to the parts , and explanation of the words of our text. i shall only raise , and prosecute one point of doctrine from hence , viz. doct. that there is a covenant of peace made or agreed upon , and it stands firm ui behalf of all gods elect. in the speaking unto this proposition , i shall take this method following , viz. . lay down eight explanatory propositions by way of premise . . i shall endeavour to open the main or chief transactions about the bringing in , and establish-of this covenant of peace . i shall open the nature of this covenant of peace . . i shall shew you what is contained , granted or given in this covenant . . shew the nature of the peace comprehended in this covenant . . apply it . proposit. i. that god foresaw from eternity , that man would fall from that happy and blessed state in which he was created ; and that a fearful breach would arise betwixt himself and mankind . thereby , had it not been thus , there would have been no room , no need , no occasion for god to enter into a covenant of peace with his own blessed son , in behalf of mankind without a war foreseen , there could i say , be no occasion of a covenant of peace and reconciliation . ii. proposition , that this covenant of peace was entered into between the father and the son before the world began . hence the apostle saith , ( aluding to this covenant ) ▪ god hath saved us , and called us with an holy calling , not according to our works , but according to his own purpose and grace which was given us in christ jesus before the world began . moreover , our lord jesus saith , that he was set up from everlasting , from the beginning , or ever the earth was . that is ordained , substituted and anointed to be the great representative and covenanting-head in behalf of all the elect of god. iii. proposition , that the breach which god foresaw would arise , would be very great , or a most amazing or fearful breach betwixt himself and lost mankind , and that it was so might abundantly be demonstrated . it was a breach occasioned by sin , god did not first fall out with us , or proclaim war against mankind ; but we first broke that league and covenant of our creation with god ; man rebelled against his creator , casting off his obedience and allegiance , and subjected himself to sin and the devil , lo this only have i found , that god hath made man upright , but they have sought out many inventions . tho all the wickedness that is in man's heart , that deceit , hypocrisie , and streams of filthiness that is there , solomon , the wisest of men could not find out : yet this he had discovered , viz. the fountain of it , namely original sin ; or what it was that first caused that breach and war which is between god and all unconverted men , or all ungodly ones in the world. and now , that it is a fearful breach appeareth , . in that man run away from god , and hid himself , and the lord god called unto adam and said unto him , where art thou ? and he said , i heard thy voice in the garden , and i was afraid , because i was naked , and i hid my self . that god who was before the object of his love and delight , was now become terrible unto him because of his horrid sin and guilt which lay upon him . . it was an unreasonable act of disobedience , and most horrid rebellion , considering what god had done for man , and how great , noble and honourable god had made him ; he formed man in his own image , and made him capable of enjoying sweet fellowship and communion with his creator ; he made him lord and governour of all things on earth , and gave him a lovely , beautiful spouse to be a sit help meet for him ; he gave him power to stand in that happy estate , tho he left him in a possibility of falling to prove his fidelity and obedience to his maker . but man cast horrid contempt upon god by his unbelief . he disbelieved the true and faithful god , and believed the devil , that father of lies , and so gave more glory to satan , than to his blessed and most rightful sovereign . . the dismal nature of this breach further appears on man's part , by considering of that vile and abominable enmity which is in the hearts of all mankind ( who abide in that old nature ) against god as the effects of that first sin , the carnal mind is enmity against god , for it is not subject unto the law of god , neither indeed can be ; he doth not say , it is an enemy , but in the abstract , it is enmity ; an enemy ( as one observes ) may be reconciled , but enmity can never be reconciled : man by this sin came to be alienated in the highest degree from god , having the vnderstanding darkned , being alienated from the life of god : and in another place , saith the same apostle , and you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your minds by wicked works , yet now hath he reconciled . . this still further appears , in that all men naturally resist god and his good spirit , they fight against god , ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears , ye do always resist the holy ghost , as your fathers did , so do ye . nay , they are called haters of god , the haters of god ( saith david ) should have submitted themselves . ye have both hated me and my father , saith our blessed lord. what can render sin more evil , or man more vile than to be called a hater of god , they are haters of god and despightful ; their soul , saith the lord , abhorred me , and my soul loathed them . moreover , they are said to be contemners of god , they even dare god to his face , and harden their hearts against him , wherefore doth the wicked contemn god ? he saith in his heart , thou wilt not require it ; they fear him not , they atheistically deny his providence , nay , his very being ; or wish at least there was no god. and all this is the fruit and effect of man's rebellion or of his first sin. ii. as this in part sets out the nature of this fearful breach by reason of sin on man's part ; so also hereby god is become an enemy to man ; and hence david saith , the face of the lord is against them that do evil , to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth . some conceive by the face of god here , is meant his anger , because anger discovers it self in the face ; others think by the face of god in this place , is meant all his attributes , his justice , wisdom , power , holiness , &c. are set against them . . god is said to abhor the ungodly , the wicked boasteth of his hearts desire , and blesseth the covetous whom the lord abhorreth . this is an amazing text , and enough to terrifie all greedy worldlings , or covetous persons , and such that commend and bless them . true , all sinners are abhorred upon the account of sin , ' yet none more hated and abhorred than the covetous person is , covetousness is idolatry . . it is said , that god is angry with the wicked every day , if he return not he will whet his sword , he hath bent his bow , and made it ready , he hath also prepared for him the instruments of death , he hath drawn his sword , his bow is bent , and his arrows are on the string ready to shoot . ah! who is able to encounter with such an enemy , or to stand before his indignation . he hath laid all mankind , as considered in the first adam , under the curse of the law , cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ; yea , the elect themselves by nature are children of wrath as well as others : all the world is become guilty before god ; such is the nature of the breach through man's sin and disobedience in breaking the law of the first covenant . . the wrath of god abides upon all them that believe not : brethren , the sentence is past upon all the whole race of mankind , in the first adam , even the sentence of everlasting death : they are all condemned already , tho the sentence is not presently executed . iv. proposition : that the breach betwixt god and man , was occasioned by the violation of the first covenant which god entered into with adam , as the common or publick head and representative of all mankind ; which covenant was a covenant of works ; i say , god gave a law , or entered into a covenant of works with the first adam and his seed , and in that covenant he gave himself to be our god , even upon the strict and severe condition of perfect obedience , personally to be performed by man himself , with that divine threatning of death and wrath if he broke the covenant , in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die . yet some may doubt ( as one observes ) whether this was a covenant of works , because here is only a threatning of death upon his disobedience to this one positive law. answ. ( but as he well observes ) man in his first creation was under a natural obligation to universal compliance to the will of god , and such was the rectitude of his nature , it imports an exact conformity to the divine will , there being an inscription of the divine law upon adam's heart , which partly still remains , or is written in the hearts of the very ▪ gentiles ( tho much blur'd ) which is that light which is in all , or that which we call the light of nature . tho evident it is that god afterwards more clearly and formally repeated this law of works to the people of israel , it being written into two tables of stone , tho not given in that ministration of it for life , as before it was to adam ; yet as so given , it is by st. paul frequently called the old covenant , and the covenant of works , which required perfect obedience of all that were under it , to their justification at god's bar , and so made sin appear exceeding sinful , and tended to aggravate man's guilt and misery upon his conscience , tho the design of god hereby was to discover unto man how unable he was in his fallen state to fulfil the righteousness of god , that so that law , together with the types and sacrifices , might be a schoolmaster to lead us to christ. now in that ministration of the first covenant given to israel when they came out of egypt , there seemed to be a mutual contract and stipulation betwixt god and them , god enjoin'd perfect , universal and continual obedience of them , and they promised and covenanted formally so to do . . brethren ! pray consider , the first covenant required perfect righteousness of man as the condition of his justification , &c. and that not enjoined by the holy god as a simple act of his sovereignty ( as some conclude ) but as it resulted from his holiness , and the rectitude of his nature : it being inconsistent with the justice , holiness or purity of god's nature , to justifie any man who is not perfectly righteous , or wholly without sin , even in thought , word and actions . . that adam before the fall had power to answer this covenant of perfect righteousness , and which he was obliged to do ; yet had no surety to engage to god for him . . moreover , he breaking this covenant ( as you have already heard ) he was utterly undone , and all his off-spring in him , and his credit being lost for ever with god , the lord will not treat with him any more , nor enter into any terms of peace without a surety , and that too upon the foundation of a better covenant , or not at all . v. proposition . that there was none in heaven nor earth , i mean neither men nor angels , that could make up that breach which sin hath made between god and man. and as no man nor angel could do it , so no repentance , no tears , tho tears of bloud , no reformation , nor any sacrifice , no not a thousand rams , nor ten thousand rivers of oil , nor the fruit of the body . i say , none of these could atone for the sin of the soul , or make our peace with god. it is not enough for a man to say , he will sin no more , for he hath sinned , and stands obliged to god to pay ten thousand talents , and yet hath not one farthing to repay ; neither will god forgive one rebel or any debter the least mite , as a simple act of mercy , but doth require a full satisfaction for the whole debt . moreover , man is both a debter and a criminal . vi. proposition , that god presenteth himself not as an unreconcilable enemy , for tho he be just , yet he is gracious ; mercy and goodness are a like glorious attributes , or properties of his nature , as justice , holiness , &c. yet the display of his favour , love , mercy and goodness , ought to be considered with respect had to his absolute sovereignty . he was , my brethren , no more obliged to magnifie his mercy in a surety and saviour to mankind , than he was to the fallen angels ; he had not been unjust if all adam's posterity had ▪ been cast into hell , and not one soul saved ; as he is not unjust in throwing all the fallen angels into hell for ever , without affording one of them any relief , redemption , or hope of recovery ; neither is he obliged to save the whole lump of mankind , either in a way of justice or mercy , because he is pleased to save a remnant of them . god was at the liberty of his will whether he would make this world or not ; it was , i mean , the only act of his sovereignty ; its actual existence in time , was according to his absolute decree and purpose from everlasting ; and according to his absolute sovereignty he governs and disposes of all things , and may do what he will with his own : all nations tremble before him , whom he would he slew , and whom he would he kept alive . the most high doth according to his will in the armies of heaven , and among the inhabitants of the earth , and none can stay his hand , or say unto him , what dost thou ? so he hath mercy upon whom he will have mercy , and compassion on whom he will have compassion , and whom he will he hardeneth . he called abraham , and revealed himself to him , and let the most of mankind in his days remain ignorant of him as to salvation by jesus christ : he also entred into a covenant with the seed of abraham , and gave them his laws and ordinances , he did not do so to any other nation : and in gospel times he called a few poor and illiterate fishermen , and such like persons , and let the pharisees and learned rabbins remain under the power of sin and satan ; and all this as the act of his own absolute sovereignty , and good pleasure of his will , as our lord sheweth , at that time jesus answered and said , i thank thee o father , lord of heaven and earth , because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent , and hast revealed them to babes : even so father for so it seemed good in thy sight . so now , at this day , he sends the gospel into one nation , and not into another ; and then also in such nations where the gospel is preached , it is but here and there clearly opened ; nay , and many who come under the powerful ministration of the gospel , have it only come unto them in word , that which is the savour of life unto life to some , is the savour of death unto death to others . now from whence is all this ? but meerly from the sovereignty of god , or good pleasure of his will , for it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of god that sheweth mercy . god's special love and election is not from any man 's willing , or running ; it riseth not from natural powers emproved , not from his desires , good deeds , or good inclinations , or from the fore-sight of his faith and obedience ; but from and of god's meer mercy , sovereign grace and favour : the truth is , to deny god to have the power of his own free act in dispensing his own sovereign bounty , is to eclipse his glory , and to render him to have less sovereign power than that which he hath given , and alloweth to mankind : may not a man shew his favour and goodness in redeeming a few captives , out of a multitude , who wilfully brought themselves into bondage , but he must redeem them all , or be unjust ? or cannot a man give a bountiful gift to one or two poor men in a parish , but he must bestow like bounty to all the poor in the said parish ? or , can't a king contrive and enter into a covenant of peace for a few rebels that have ( with a multitude of others ) taken up arms against him , but he must be charged with injustice , because he did not extend like favour in the said covenant to them all ; sure , no man , in his right senses , will deny him this liberty : and now , shall not god have like power to dispense his sovereign grace to whom he pleaseth , who is said to do all things according to the pleasure of his own will , and eternal purpose in jesus christ ? proposition vii . and from hence it appeareth , that the covenant of peace is the covenant of grace . for tho the covenant of peace , in respect had to christ , as our mediatour , head and surety , was upon the condition of his merits ; yet as to the design , end and purpose of it , in respect of us , it was only an act of pure grace ; hence said to be according to the good pleasure of his will , ephes. . . and to the praise of the glory of his grace , v. . . it was the free grace of god the father to vouchsafe us a substitute , a saviour , a mediator of this peace , and to choose , ordain and appoint his own son to be the person , and to accept him in our stead . oh! what favour is this ? god so loved the world , &c. . and it was the free grace of god the son to engage himself to the father , to enter into this covenant to make our peace ; the glory of both persons equally shine forth to the amazement of all in heaven and earth , the counsel of peace was between them both . . nay , my brethren , the free and rich grace of god in this covenant is to be adored , even as to the main and ultimate end and design thereof , not according to our works , but according to his own purpose and grace , which was given to us in christ before the world began . the whole contrivance , foundation and rise of this covenant of peace , is of love and grace ; neither do we receive any grace from god in time , but as it results from the covenant of peace made with us in christ before all time ; but this i purpose to enlarge upon further when i come to open the nature of the covenant . proposition viii . and as the covenant of peace is the govenant of grace ; so it results from god as an act of infinite mercy ; it is therefore a merciful covenant ; it was not made with man considered in his state of innocency ; for man , as so considered , could not be the object of god's mercy ; for tho god appeared very good and gracious to us in our first creation , and as we came out of his hands , and that many ways ; yet such was our happy state , that we stood then in no need of mercy ; for where mercy is shewed , it is to such that are in misery ; but before man fell he knew no misery , pain or sorrow ; but when god first cast his eyes upon us , and entered into this covenant of peace with his own son for us , he saw us lie in our bloud , and fallen under his divine wrath and anger ; and this indeed the very name of the covenant of peace doth import : there was no need of peace had there not been a war , or a fearful breach between god and us ; and that this covenant results from god's great mercy , read again my text , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . god foresaw us cast out like a wretched infant in the day of its nativity , whose navel was not cut , neither washed in water , nor salted , nor swadled at all ; and what doth god say more , none eye pitied thee to do any of these things for thee , but thou wast cast out in the open field , to the loathing of thy person in the day thou wast born . this was the time of his love , and also of his pity and tender mercy ; and when i passed by thee i saw thee polluted in thine own bloud , ver . . that is , when he was first concerned for us , in this covenant of peace , and entered into that holy compact with his own son : behold , thy time was a time of love , and i spread my skirt over , and covered thy nakedness ; yea , and i sware unto thee , and entered into covenant with thee , saith the lord , and thou becamest mine . this was the time of god's entering into covenant with his elect , viz. it was with them in christ , and what of this is actually accomplished on us in time , in our own persons , is but the execution of all that grace , pity and mercy manifested to us in christ from eternity ; he then shewed his eternal purpose of compassion towards his chosen , and he then said in his blessed covenant to them live . i should now proceed to the next general head , but shall say no more at this time . sermon ii. isa. liv. x. the last part of the verse . neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace made and agreed on , and standeth firm in behalf of all the elect of god. the last day we spoke to those explanatory propositions proposed to be opened by way of premise . and now to proceed to the next general head. secondly , i shall endeavour to open the main or chief transactions about the bringing in this covenant of peace . there are my brethren , six things to be considered in a covenant of peace among men , and so also in and about this covenant . i. a treaty , or a solemn consultation , or a treating about the terms of peace . ii. an agreement upon the terms proposed . iii. who the mediator is of this covenant of peace , together with his work and office. iv. the ratification of the covenant . v. the proclamation or proclaiming the peace . vi. the time when the peace shall commence , and who are included in it , and what is required in order to their actual possession and enjoyment thereof . my brethren , these are the main things that are contained in , and about a covenant of peace among men , as the chief covenant transactions ; and my purpose is to speak unto these six things particularly : tho i grant there is some difference between a covenant of peace between kingdoms and states among men , and this covenant ; especially concerning the work of the glorious mediator of this covenant , and a mediator of peace concluded between earthly princes and states : as we , god assisting , shall make appear . but to proceed : i. concerning the treaty , or treating about this covenant . my brethren , commonly princes and states appoint their extraordinary embassadors or plenipotentiaries to treat about the terms upon which they design and are willing to conclude a peace after a ruinous and destructive war : they do not treat about it in their own persons ; but the treaty of peace in this covenant was only between god the father , and god the son ; sinners then had no actual being , or did not exist , and therefore could not send any plenipotentiary to agitate matters on their behalf . it is true , our lord jesus christ is called the messenger of the covenant whom we delight in . he is indeed our delegate , messenger or trustee ; but the father alone , and not we delegated that office and power to him , for us , and on our behalf , out of his own sovereign grace and goodness before the world began . this name of messenger of the covenant doth . denote christ's dispensatory employment , work and office , and his free and voluntary condescention to undertake in this treaty , according to the design , purpose and will of the father , as our great trustee , embassador and plenipotentiary . and . he may not only be called the messenger of the covenant , as our great representative to treat with the father in eternity , upon the terms of our peace ; but also in his being sent from heaven to earth , actually to work about , and accomplish all things that were agreed on between them both ; concerning the making of our peace . he travelled from heaven to earth on this errand , and to effect this blessed work. . he may be so called , because he is the messenger that published the happy news of the peace contained in this covenant , in the clear and glorious ministration of it : hence it is said , it was first began to be spoken by the lord. our lord jesus is the great apostle , and chief minister and messenger of the new covenant , a minister of the sanctuary , and of the true tabernacle , which the lord pitched , and not man. . he is the messenger who doth interpret , open and explain all those dark and obscure mysteries contained in the covenant of peace , that were kept secret and hid from the beginning of the world ; he is that messenger , one of a thousand : all things ( saith he ) are delivered unto me of my father ; and no man knoweth the son but the father ; neither knoweth any man the father , save the son , and he to whomsoever the son will reveal him . no man hath seen god at any time , the only begotten son which is in the bosom of the father , he hath declared him : but no more as to this now . . i shall prove that there was a covenant between god and christ , or a blessed treaty about our peace before the world began , see psalm . v. . i have made a covenant with my chosen . god first chose his son as the representative , covenanting head and surety of his elect , and then treated with him about the terms of our peace . it is said to be made with david , but no otherwise than as he was a type of christ. it is jesus christ who is the true david , my mercy will i keep for him evermore , and my covenant shall stand fast with him : hence our blessed lord , it is said , was delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of god. . here are the two covenanting parties the covenant of peace is between them both : that is , between the lord of host , and the man who is the branch ; betwixt them it was consulted , agreed to , or concluded , i was set up from everlasting , from the beginning , or ever the earth was : that is , as the covenant-head of all god's elect , or as mediator and peace-maker between god and them , and this setting up that , clearly implies a covenant or holy compact that was between them both . . the consent of two parties , or more , upon the proposals made by the one party , and the agreement of the other , tends to make a formal covenant , so here was , my brethren , a mutual re-stipulation betwixt god the father and christ about our peace and redemption . for here were things commanded by the one , and agreed to be done in obedience by the other : in these transactions the father makes proposals to the son , and shewed him what he will have him do , if ever our peace succeed and is made . and . moreover , upon the doing of which many great promises are made to christ for the merit or desert of his work , and to the elect in him , out of meer grace , for christ's sake , or for his just deservings ; hence our lord saith he came to do the will of his father , this is the will of him that sent me , &c. he laid down his life as his father commanded him ; he knew it was according to the eternal compact , purpose ▪ and decree of his father , unto which he consented ; god the father agreed to prepare the son a body , the son consented to assume our nature , or take that body , then said i , lo , i come to do thy will o god! and in that body he was enjoined to die , i have power to lay down my life , and power to take it up again , this commandment have i received of my father . also these faederal transactions betwixt god the father and jesus christ are held forth in isa. . , , . he shall make his soul an offering for sin , this was that which christ was obliged to do ; and then we have the promise of the fathers to him , ( . ) of justifying of many . ( . ) of seeing his seed , he shall see his seed . ( . ) that the pleasure of the lord shall prosper in his hand ; he shall have them all united to himself , pordoned and saved for ever . again isa. . . the covenanting parties are mentioned , the father saith , i. will give thee ( that is , thee my son ) for a covenant to the people . here 's the father's designation and first sealing of our lord jesus christ to the mediatorial office and employment . moreover , our lord jesus readily complied with the father's purpose and will herein , the lord god hath opened mine ear , and i was not rebellious , i gave my back to the smiters , and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair ; i hid not my face from shame and spitting . i gave consent thus to do , i readily yielded to my father's pleasure herein ; and in the fulness of time he actually thus suffered to fulfil and answer the terms of this covenant . i will declare the decree , ( or as dr. hammond reads it ) the covenant : that is , i will publish or manifest that which was agreed upon betwixt god the father and me this my brethren , was long kept secret , but it is now clearly revealed , the secrets of the lord is with them that fear him , and he will shew them his covenant . the hebrew word decree , the learned in that language render statute , decree , agreement , pact , covenant ; the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is here used ( saith a learned author ) is in the scripture sometimes promiscuously , or synonimously used with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is usually render'd covenant ; covenant is taken either properly or figuratively . first properly , for a mutual contract , compact or agreement between two parties , which differs from a law which is without obligation on the lawgiver ; and also from a single promise which is without stipulation . covenant may be thus taken ( as one notes ) i. e. in a proper sense when applied to the whole covenant of peace or grace . between the father and the son , because there was a mutual stipulation . . figuratively , for a bare promise ; so it was to noah , gen. . . and so the covenant of grace run to abraham , viz. being no more than a free promise of god ; and thus we are to take the word covenant when it refers to us in christ , for we receive no covenant-blessings upon any mutual stipulation betwixt god and us , upon or from the merit of our work , but all upon the account of free grace , and of christ's covenant with god , and by vertue of that faederal union we had then with him ; for all things which we receive in time , was promised to us in christ from eternity ; therefore the elect must faederally be considered in christ from everlasting : the covenant of peace with christ , my brethren , was not made simply for himself , but for the elect ; he merited that we might possess : true , all is to him of meer desert and merit ; but to us in him , of meer grace and favour . so much as to the first thing that was proposed to be opened , viz. that there was a treaty or treating between the father and the son about this blessed covenant of peace . ii. i shall shew you more fully , that there was an agreement upon the terms . or , that the son of god did consent to what the father proposed . . it is very evident from what hath been said , that god proposed matters to his own son ; or what he must do to procure , and establish the covenant of peace ; but let me add here one or two scriptures more to shew you that christ consented unto those proposals made by the father , i the lord have called thee in righteousness , and will hold thine hand , and will keep thee , and give thee for a covenant of the people , for a light unto the gentiles : to open blind eyes , to bring out the prisoners from the prison , and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house . and in isa. . , . it is said , and now saith the lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant , to bring jacob again to him , tho israel be not gathered , yet shall i be glorious in the eyes of the lord , and my god shall be my strength : and he said it is a light thing that thou shouldst be my servant , to raise up the tribes of jacob , to restore the preserved of israel , i will give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou mayst be my salvation to the ends of the earth . these things all expositors that are orthodox agree were spoken by jehovah to jesus christ , and do contain proposals concerning the covenant of peace . and now . let us in the next place consider of such scriptures that prove that christ did consent unto these proposals . to this effect , see prov. . . , . the lord possessed me in the beginning of his way , before his work of old . i was set up from everlasting , from the beginning , before ever the earth was . when there was no depths i was brought forth , when there was no fountains abounding with water , , . then was i with him as one brought up with him , and was daily his delight , rejoicing always before him , rejoicing in the habitable part of the earth , and my delights were with the sons of men. as this text proves the eternity of the son of god , who is the substantial , eternal wisdom of god ; so also it shews there was a voluntary and ready consent in our lord to undertake in the work of our peace and redemption , that he was set up and did agree to undertake , as our mediator , to make our peace with god ; and also , that he took pleasure in his so engaging on our behalf ; to this , let me add what david in the person of christ speaks , sacrifice and offerings thou didst not desire , mine ears hast thou opened ; burnt offerings and sin offerings hast thou not required , then said i , lo i come to do thy will o god. this place is cited by the apostle , wherefore when he cometh into the world he saith , sacrifice and offerings thou wouldst not , but a body hast thou prepared me . in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure . then said i , lo i come , in the volmn of the book it is written of me , to do thy will , o god. nothing can more fully shew christ's chearful consent ; what god the father required , jesus christ yielded to do , which was , to make satisfaction for sin , in his body on the tree , and so to make our peace with the eternal jehovah . i. consider who the persons transacting and treating with each other were , even god the father , and god the son ; the father stands upon satisfaction to his law and justice , or demands the whole sum or price of our redemption , that so our peace might be made , and christ engageth to give it . ii. the business or grand matter transacted , i say , betwixt them was our peace and reconciliation unto god , and so to recover all god's elect from sin , wrath and misery , and work about their eternal happiness ; the elect , tho not then in being , yet are here considered as fallen , wretched and forlorn creatures . iii. that the manner or nature of these transactions were faederal , or in a covenant-way , one person mutually engaging and stipulating with the other : the father stands upon the strict demands of law and justice , the son consents to glorifie the father therein , and raise the honour of all the divine attributes , which in time he did do , i have glorified thee on earth , i have finished the work thou gavest me to do . and now father , glorifie me with thine own self . as if he should say , the terms agreed upon , or thy demands are done , therefore let me have my reward , and let mine elect be made one in us ; let me not only personally be one with thee , but also mystically one , and so be glorified , as it is due to me , as the hire or reward of my work. iv. if any ask when this covenant or holy compact was made , i told you , and say again , it bears date from eternity , or before the world began , when we had ( as i said before ) no existence but only in the eternal decree and purpose of god. moreover , remember this covenant was made with christ for us , and in him with us , for all that grace which is given to us in time , was promised unto us in christ , nay given to us in christ from eternity , tim. . . tit. . , , . as our surety , covenanting-head , and blessed representative . as to the special and particular articles agreed upon , on which the covenant of peace was made and concluded , i shall open them under the next head of discourse . v. commonly in all treaties , or covenants of peace amongst men , there is a mediator chosen . so god chose a mediator of this covenant ; yet his work as mediator , greatly differs from the work and office of all other mediators , as i might make it appear : for christ is not only mediator of the covenant , but surety , messenger and testator of it also : and as he is considered mediator , he is invested with a threefold office more particularly , which offices he faithfully executeth in order to the making our peace with god , in reconciling god to us , and us to god , which i purpose to treat of and open in order . the work of our mediator is not barely to see our peace made , or to labour by intreaty to bring each party to moderation , and pliable terms , and to see every thing done according to the preliminaries agreed upon ; but the whole work of making peace is solely committed to our lord jesus christ , not to see others do it , but he himself doth it all , even all that god requires on his part , and what is necessary to be done for us , in us , and by us also . i. let it be also considered , that god would not make any covenant of peace with us without a mediator , without such a mediator ; and that jesus christ alone is the mediator , is evident , there is one mediator between god and man , even the man christ jesus . i say , god chose his son to be the mediator of this covenant of peace : and hence he is said to be given for a covenant unto the people , that is , as some conceive , to be the mediator thereof . ii. god the father's demands must be granted ; he will not suffer his just right and honour to be invaded , nor his glory eclipsed , therefore was this mediator chosen ; besides the sanction of his holy law must be preserved ; private persons may forgive offences , as they please ; but the just and holy governour of the world , will not , cannot pass by offences till the end of government be secured , that so his holiness and justice be not stained , nor his law fall to the ground : hence one main article proposed was , that the mediator of our peace do make full satisfaction , and if he doth not this , there could be no covenont of peace concluded ; this therefore was the result of that counsel of peace held in eternity . iii. there was i say , a necessity for the son of god to be both mediator and surety of this covenant : i do not say , that there was a necessity laid either upon the father or the son to enter into this covenant of peace for us : no , no! but if god will in a way of free and sovereign grace enter into such a covenant for mankind , there was a necessity for christ to be the mediator and surety of it ; i say , necessity , so far as we can , or are able to conceive , in respect of this matter . . because god hath not revealed , or made known any other way by which our peace could be made , but by a mediator , i do not say , that god could not any other way make our peace , but that he could not in reguard of his own honour ( so far as it appeareth unto us . ) moreover , if god hath not made known any other way , then there is no other way for us to obtain peace with him : but no other way is made known . . there could be no other way , as we can conceive , because the breach that was between god and us , must be made up by a full satisfaction to the law and justice of god , god being just as well as gracious ; and hence one end why christ was made a propitiation through faith in his bloud , was to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of god , v. . to declare , i say , at this time his righteousness , that he might be just , and the justifier of him that believeth in jesus , vers . . that is , that no wrong might be done to the essential purity of god's nature , or rectitude of his will ; nor yet to his immediate justice , by which he cannot but hate sin , and for it require a satisfaction . . in regard of the truth of god's threatning pronounced against all mankind in adam , upon his disobedience , legal threatnings are such , that they admit of no pardon , without satisfaction be made to the justice and holiness of god ; and this was signified by all those typical sacrifices and offerings under the law ; therefore in vindication of the truth or veracity of god , together with the honour , equity , and sanction of the law , there must be satisfaction made , or no peace with god , for fallen mankind ; and this could not be done but by such a mediator as jesus christ is . for that which could not be done by men or angels , nor as a simple act of god's mercy , without the impeachment of his holiness , truth , and justice , &c. could not be done at all : but no pardon , no peace could be procured by men nor angels , nor as an absolute or simple act of mercy , without the impeachment or eclipsing the glory of the attributes of god's justice , truth , and holiness , &c. therefore it could not be so done at all . . to say god might have entered into a covenant of peace for us any other way than by the mediator jesus christ , or through his death and atonement would ( as one observes ) reflect upon his love to his own dear son : for why should the son of god be made a curse for us , or suffer the cursed death of the cross , to make our peace , if peace could be made any other way , without the least injury to the justice , law , or holiness of god , &c. no doubt my brethren , but that the son of god had been spared , if he had foresaw that our peace might have been made some other way . moreover , would it not then follow that there might have been two ways to obtain peace and reconciliation with god , which is contrary to what our blessed lord says , no man cometh to the father but by me ; that is , cannot come to have peace with god any other way , but by me , by my death , or through my blood , nor without believing , or depending upon me : for thus it is with the adult . . there is no other way of peace with god , and therefore a necessity of christ's mediation ; because without the shedding of blood , there is no remission ; no pardon , and so no peace ; there could be no discharge from the guilt of sin , no removal of the punishment of sin , nor any purgation from the filth and pollution thereof , without the blood of christ be shed . . because it is positively said , there is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved : if there is no other name , way , or means given , but by jesus christ ; then there is a necessity that our peace be made alone by him : but this is so , therefore there is a necessity of christ's mediation . in the next place we will enquire what is absolutely necessary for the mediator of our peace to do , or were requisites in him , according to the articles agreed on in this covenant , to make our peace with god. . a mediatour of this covenant of peace , must understand the nature of that difference , or breach which was betwixt god and man ; and what terms the holy god , who is the injured party ) stands upon ; and must have granted him if ever our peace be made ; and who but jesus christ , who is god , knew this ? it was he only that well knew what it was that could satisfie infinite justice : had it been proposed either to men or angels to resolve this question , i. e. by what means shall fallen man come to be reconciled to god , and god be righted as touching all that wrong sin and sinners have done him ? what answer think you could they have made ? alas ! no meer created being could resolve such a question . . he that is the mediatour of this covenant , or that maketh our peace , must not only know what will do it , but also he must be able to answer all god's demands , both in respect of his law and justice ; and also be able to supply all our wants and necessities : he must seek the honour of the blessed god , and equally seek and be able to relieve poor sinners ; and none but jesus christ could do this , who is an indifferent person , or one equally related unto both , he being both god and man in one person . ( . ) he being god , the one and the same eternal god , he could not know what concerned the glory of his father ; and therefore would not , could not eclipse his glory . ( . ) and he being man , he could not but sympathize with the poor creature ; and as being god he did not only know all our wants , but he is able also to supply them . this brings me to the next particular . iii. the mediator of this covenant must therefore be every ways suitably qualified , or capacitated for this work and mediatorship ; and to this end i say , he must be god ; nay , god in our nature , ( for a meer man could not satisfie infinite justice ) ; his obedience or sufferings else could not therefore have been meritorious : for it was from the union of the divine nature with the humane , that put such a worth or meritorious efficacy in his sacrifice . i say , jesus christ our mediator must be god , . because those evils which he was to expiate , could never be taken away by any person that was not god , or whose sacrifice or atonement had not an infinite worth and satisfaction in it ; because sin is against the infinite majesty of heaven . . jesus christ as mediator must be god , because otherwise he could not sustain , or bear in his body and soul that great weight of sin and wrath laid upon him ; for if but the guilt of one sin was laid on any meer man , it would sink him down to the lowest hell ; much more then would the weight of all the sins of god's elect have sunk down the lord jesus christ , when laid upon him , had he not been god , but a meer man. how doth david cry out of the burden of his sins ? mine iniquities are gone over mine head , as an heavy burden , they are too heavy for me . nay , my brethren , when our sins were laid upon our lord jesus christ , and he began to bear , and feel the weight of them , tho he was god , how did he cry out ? and he began to be sore amazed , and said , my soul is exceeding sorrowful , even unto death : tarry ye here and watch , and he went forward a little , and fell on the ground : the weight of our sins and divine wrath , brought him down to the earth . . christ our mediator must be god , otherwise his suffering , or the purchase of his blood could not have merited all that grace and glory for all god's elect , which indeed it did . brethren there is a difference between a full satisfaction or payment of debts , and a price that is laid down not only to do that , but also to merit and purchase a right to great riches , high priviledges and honour . now if christ had only paid our debts , or satisfied the justice of god as to his vindictive vengeance , tho we thereby had been delivered from hell , yet that payment could not have raised us up to heaven ; no , it is through the merits of that infinite price christ laid down , that we come to be the sons of god , and heirs of glory ; and all this is through the dignity of his person , and infinite value and worth of his purchase , as being god ; and also as it was the grant of god the father to christ , in the covenant of peace , as the result of those transactions . . he must be god , because otherwise he could not have subdued , and overcome all his and our enemies : what meer man is able to wrestle with , and overcome satan , and all the powers of darkness ? or how could he have prevailed against death ? overcome and have subdued death ? i will ransom them from the power of the grave : i will redeem them from death : o death , i will be thy plague ; o grave , i will be thy destruction . and hence christ says , destroy this temple , awd in three days i will raise it up again . this he could not have done except he had been the eternal god. now this is sometimes attributed to the whole trinity , sometimes to the father , sometimes to the holy ghost , so it is sometimes attributed to jesus christ , which shews , that the three persons are all but one and the same god. . he must be god , in respect of his work as mediator in reference to man ; for he was obliged to quicken all god's elect , ( who in the first adam were dead in sins and trespasses ) and raise them from that spiritual death , and overcome the power of sin and satan in them , as well as for them . this brings me to the next thing . ii. jesus christ also as mediator of peace , must be man. . he must be man , because he must work out a righteousness in the same nature that had sined , man was obliged to keep the law perfectly ; and this must be done by man , if ever he be justified with god ; ( for god will in no wise clear the guilty . ) true , this is not required in the covenant of peace to be done in the person of every elect sinner , ' but in the person of christ , who is the representative of every one of them . for as we were all made sinners by one man , as the head and representative of all his seed , so we became righteous by the compleat and perfect obedience of one man , as the head and representative of all his seed ; for as the law being broken by one man , is imputed to all his seed , so the law being compleatly kept by one man , jesus christ , is imputed to all his seed : for as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners ; so by the obedience of one , shall many be made righteous . moreover , justice required that the same nature that broke the law , should keep the law , tho room for a substitute , or surety , was reserved in the wisdom and council of god. . christ must be man , because he must die ; now god as god ( i mean the godhead ) could not die ; man must die to satisfie offended justice for the breach of the law ; therefore christ must be man and die : and by vertue of the union of the divine nature with the humane nature in his person , the death of christ was a full satisfaction to the justice of god. . he must be one with us , or else how could his obedience be imputed to us ? for as our sins was imputed to him , so his righteousness is imputed to us . . he must be man , that he might be a merciful high-priest , being touched with the feeling of our infirmity , he must have access to both , he was to deal with god for man , and for god with man. jesus christ ought to be of the same stock with those he redeemed or sanctified to god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of one stock , of one blood saith a worthy author ; that by the law of propinquity of blood , he might have right to redeem us ; goel the next of kin , had an obligation upon him to redeem his brother's land if mortgaged : if thy brother be waxen poor , and hath sold away some of his possession , and if any of his kin come to redeem it , then shall he redeem that which his brother sold. so of persons , if sold , after he is sold he may be redeemed again , one of his brethren may redeem him : so christ is called goel , job . . for i know that my redeemer liveth : christ is our kinsman , not only true man , but the son of man ; true man he might have been , if god had created him out of nothing , or he had brought his substance from heaven ; but he is the son of man descended from the loins of adam , as we are , and so doth redeem us , not only jure proprietatis , by virtue of his interest as our creator , but jure propinquitatis , by virtue of kindred , as one of the same stock and lineage , as the son of david , * as well as the son of god , for christ jesus , of all the kindred , was the only one that was free , and able to pay a ransome for us . . he must be man , as the said author notes , that we might find a fountain of holiness in our nature , god hath poured out upon his humane nature , such a measure of holiness , that he might be a common fountain to all the elect ; of his fullness have all we received , and grace for grace . christ , as god-man , is the fountain from whence we receive all grace . . to give us a pledge of that tenderness of his love and compassion towards us ; for he that is our kinsman , bone of our bone , and flesh of our flesh , will not be strange to his own flesh ; especially since he is one that is so not by necessity of nature , but by voluntary choice and assumption , we could not have such familiar and confident recourse to an angel , or to one of another or different nature from ours ; this made laban , tho otherwise a churlish man , kind to jacob ; surely thou art my bone and my flesh. iii. christ must be god and man , if he be a fit mediator betwixt god and man ; i.e. he must take our nature into union with his godhead , and that ( . ) that we might mystically be united to god , or draw near to god , and so be raised up into a glorious and happy state ; for the spring or foundation of our happiness riseth from the hypostatical union of the two natures in the person of christ ; we had never been able to have drawn near to god , nor have been united mystically to god , had not there been such an hypostatical union of our nature to the divine nature in christ's person ; for that was the spring , i say , and foundation of our union . ( . ) moreover christ must be god-man , because the covenant of peace was transacted with christ , not as god , simply so considered , but as god-man , or as mediator ; and as so he struck hands with god , christ-god , ( as one observes ) could not be under the law , nor represent man , and take his law-place ; nor could the godhead suffer , and pay the price of blood , nor receive a mission , and mandates ; christ simply considered as god , could not be a messenger , nor be sent , nor as god could there be promises made to him , nor any rewards given him , but as mediator this was done . ( . ) had christ not been god-man , how could there been two parties covenanting with each other about making of our peace : for christ-god , the second person , could not constitute a party distinct from god , considered essentially one : i and my father are one ; but a mediator is not a mediator of one , but god is one : therefore the covenant of peace was made with christ as god-man , god in our nature . i shall now proceed to shew you what a mediator signifies , and so open the work of christ as mediator . . a mediator properly signifies a midler , a middle man , a reconciler , or a days man that lays his hands upon both , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one that interposeth , to make up the breach , or difference that is between disagreeing parties : now jesus christ is a middle person , and fit every ways to be a mediator betwixt god and man , he is at an equal distance , and equally drawing near to , and a like related unto both , he being god and man in one person , he is a meet and a proper reconciler of god to man , and of man to god. for there is one mediator between god and men , the man christ jesus ; and for this cause he is the mediator of the new covenant , &c. for as he is god's son , so also he is our brother or kinsman ; and so the right of redemption falls upon him . . a mediator must have a legal call to this office , or be authorized to manage this great trust , as well as be every ways fitly qualified so to do , and must be allowed to undertake herein by the injured party . now , my brethren , christ was chosen , called , authorized , and anointed by the father to be mediator , and willingly , as i have shewed you , he accepted of this work and office. he did actually interpose , or step in betwixt god and man , and acted and executed the mediator's office , as a days-man's part , in this treaty of peace , by the appointment , call , and authority of god , god accepteth him for us to make our peace ; i have made my covenant with my chosen : he was chosen , behold mine elect — again god saith , i have called thee in righteousness , and will hold thy hand , &c. god did with him strike hands ; with us , the stipulation on our part was made by him . i have laid help upon one that is mighty , i have exalted one chosen out of the people . in christ we were represented by mutual agreement in those covenant transactions with his father . . a mediator must comply with the just demands of the wronged party , and do that which he requires , without which he will never make peace . jesus christ therefore must be man , because the shedding of his blood is absolutely necessary , in order to the making of our peace the just right of the offended soveraign of heaven and earth , must be vindicated ; and to this end the son of god took our nature upon him , that he might offer up , or sacrifice that body to the justice of god , he laid down his life , as the father gave him commandment , for he is our peace , who hath made both one — and that he might reconcile both unto god , in one body , by the cross , having slain the enmity thereby ; and having made peace by the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself , &c. . a mediator must be a person that hath interest in both parties , and be one whom both parties may trust , being equally affected unto both , seeking to do all just right to one , and to relieve the offending party , so far as he is capable to do it . now our lord jesus christ hath interest in god , being his own son , and one and the same god ; and being man he is nearly related unto as , god therefore can trust him as his most faithful servant ; and god in mercy and infinite love chose him as our trustee , knowing that he would not , could not fail us ; therefore he committed our interest and concernments of our peace to him , we having no other friend in heaven nor earth . and this , brethren , was before we had any being , or were able to dispose of our interest or concernments . . a mediator ought to be a person that is a well-wisher to peace , or one that loves peace , longs after it , there being nothing more acceptable to him than peace . jesus christ is called the prince of peace ; not only a peaceable prince , but the prince of peace , the only person of peace , or peace-maker . never did any person give such clear , full , and undeniable proofs , and demonstrations of his being a well-wisher to peace , or a lover of peace , as jesus christ hath done . as , i. witness how freely he offered himself to the father , in our behalf , to treat about , and yield to the terms of , and sign this blessed covenant of peace . ii. witness the glory he was willing to leave , in order to his actual accomplishment thereof . iii. witness the long journey he took from heaven to earth , that he might reconcile god and man. iv. witness his great abasement , and wonderful condescention for being in the for● of god , he thought it not robbery to be equal wi●● god : ( not equal by a delegated power from god for in essence he is co-equal , co-essential , and co-eternal with the father , ) but made himself of 〈◊〉 reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant , and was made in the likeness of sinful man ▪ his condescention was free , and voluntary , o● unconstrained ( unless it was by love ) he suffered his glory for a time to be eclipsed , yet he did not lay down the essential form of god ; no , that was impossible ; but he assumed the form of a servant , by taking our nature into union with his divine nature , and all this to make our peace . v. witness how desirous he was of peace , by considering what in that body he past through from first to last , that he might make peace . ( . ) consider his bloody agony : divine wrath touched his soul , he sweat great drops , ( or congealed clots ) of blood , tho it was in a cold night ; he prayed , he feared , he cryed with strong crying and tears , the pangs of hell took hold of him ; no man ever felt what he felt in his soul ; he poured forth his soul to death , or came under a spiritual death , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me ? ( . ) consider what an ignominious death he suffered ; to be hanged on a tree , was a death which none but slaves and notorious malefactors endured , the lord of heaven and earth suffered the punishment of a vile and cursed offender ; and all this to make our peace . ( . ) consider how painful this death was , ●y brethren , it was not only a shameful and ig●ominious death , but also a very painful and ●ingering death ; for from his scourging by pilot , to his giving up the ghost ( it is observed ) it was six hours , all which time he was in bitter torture and anguish , both in soul ●nd body too ; he suffered from heaven , from earth , and from hell. ( . ) consider it was also a cursed death ; he was made a curse for us , as it is written , cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree ; and all this to make our peace . ( . ) consider when this was done , even at such a time when multitudes were come out of the countries round about to jerusalem , to keep the feast ; who , no doubt , had heard of the great fame of christ , and of his mighty miracles , and longed ( it is like ) to see him ; and now for them to behold this person thus mocked , scourged , and hanged on a tree as a miserable wretch , must needs wound his tender heart ; but all this he bore to make our peace , which abundantly proves he was inclined to peace , willing to make our peace , and appease god's wrath. ( . ) consider his most importutate endeavours to bring poor sinners to accept of that peace which he hath made . . what arguments doth he use . . how long he doth wait knocking at their doors . . and what repulses doth he daily mee● withal and sustain , and what abominable affronts doth he suffer from unbelieving , and hard-hearted sinners : o how much is he for peace ! vi. a mediator must be of a yielding and condescending spirit , one that can comply with each party , not self-will'd , nor seeking his own honour , &c. our lord jesus christ condescended in every thing to do his father's will ; nevertheless , not my will , but thy will be done ; tho he was a son , yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered : he stuck at nothing ; i did not withhold my face from shame and spitting . no mediator ever condescended as christ did , he that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory , but he that seeketh his glory that sent him , the same is true , and there is no vnrighteousness in him : all his whole design in his working about our redemption and reconciliation , was to advance his father's glory ; and he complied to do whatsoever was requisite in order thereto . vii . a mediator ought to be cloathed with power , ( i mean not only with a legal authority , for that i have spoken to already ) but to be one that hath ability , wisdom , and discretion to make up the breach that is between parties at variance ; every one is not in a capacity to become a mediator , were they called to that office , for want of ability . now our lord jesus christ is mighty in power ; he is mighty to save . ( . ) he is every way capable to accomplish the work of making peace and reconciliation with god : he is the power of god , and the wisdom of god. he is called god's arm , and the man of his right hand . let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand , upon the son of man , whom thou madest strong for thy self . let thy hand of justice be upon him , take satisfaction in him : beloved , whatever justice required , the holiness of god required , the veracity of god required , or the law of god required ; in order to our peace , christ is able to answer all : i that speak in righteousness , mighty to save . ( . ) moreover , whatsoever our deplorable condition and necessities do require , in order to our peace and restoration , he is able to answer it fully also . . he is able to encounter and overcome satan ; and as he hath done this in his own person for us , so he also doth it in us ; for naturally we were in satan's chains , even captives to the devil , the strong man armed held us fast , but christ being cloathed with greater power , hath delivered us out of satan's hands : he was anointed to set at liberty those that were bound . . he hath overcome sin , or destroyed that enemy : this was part of his work , i. e. to make an end of sins , and to make reconciliation for iniquity , and to bring in everlasting righteousness , &c. that is , to make an end of sin as to the guilt , condemning power , and punishment thereof ; and at last he will make an end of the very being of sin also , in all his people . . to overcome the world : in the world y●● shall have tribulation , but be of good chear , i have overcome the world. as he overcame the world in all its snares , temptations , flatteries , and frowns for us , so through him we shall overcome the world also . we overcome in him , and shall by him , or through his aid and assistance at last , and so sit down with him on his throne . . he is able to open blind eyes : this he was also anointed to do , even not only to proclaim liberty for the captives , but the recovering of sight to the blind ; for we by nature were all born blind , and none but christ can give us sight , or open the eyes of our understanding . . he hath power to raise the dead , the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god , and they that hear shall live : you hath he quickned that were dead in sins and trespasses : not one soul could receive any benefit by his mediation , unless he had been cloathed with power to raise dead lazarus from the grave . i mean every elect sinner dead in sin. . to change our rebellious hearts , or bow and bend our stubborn wills , or to make the unwilling will willing , which he doth in the day of his power . and so to take away that enmity that naturally was in our hearts against god , or remove all our vitious habits , or that averseness that was in us to god , and to the things of god , or to circumcise our hearts to love the lord our god , which could not be done by any but by one cloathed with a creating power , for it is he that forms the image of god again in us . . to cloath the naked soul , by putting on the robe of his own righteousness upon it . . to raise us up from the dead at the last day : i will ransom them from the power of the grave , i will redeem them from death : o death , i will be thy plague ; o grave , i will be thy destruction — moreover ▪ . he is able not only to bring us to god , or into the bonds of his covenant , but also to keep us in a state of peace , so that we shall not break covenant with god any more for ever , so as to lose his , love and favour : and as jesus christ hath power to do this , so he also in this covenant of peace ingaged to do it . he is able , i say , and will do it : brethren , shall he shed his blood to make our peace , and shall he not secure that peace to us , or not preserve us in a state of peace ? i shall , before i have done , shew you that he is not only mediator , but surety also of the covenant of peace , and he is bound or obliged to perform all these things , for all that are given unto him by the father , and he will lose not one of them ; we are the preserved in jesus christ , as well as called . viii . a mediator is not only to bring one party to terms of peace , but to reconcile both parties if possible . jesus christ is not only to reconcile god to man , but also man to god. a mediator is not a mediator of one , but god is one . god is the offended and injured party , and jesus christ reconciled god by that satisfaction he made to his holy law and justice , but he hath another work to do , which is to reconcile the elect unto god : some men intimate , that altho god on his part in christ is reconciled , yet man is to reconcile himself to god , or make his own peace as well as he can , and that he is to enter into a covenant himself with god , and labour to perform these things upon the pain of damnation , but this gospel i understand not ; i know no covenant of peace but that which christ made with the father ; and it is his work as mediator to bring poor sinners to accept of the terms of peace agreed on in order to their personal and actual interest in the blessings of the said covenant , christ must change the sinners heart by the infusing of his spirit , and so unite the soul to himself , by which means he brings the sinner into the bonds of the covenant : the outward means is indeed the preaching of the gospel , but the inward and effectual means , is the efficacious operations of the holy spirit ; and he that saith it is in the power of man's will to make his peace , or to lay hold of the covenant , takes the work of christ's mediation out of his hand , and the crown from off his head. ix . a mediatour many times meets with great trouble , and difficulties in undertaking to make peace ; and what trouble hath jesus christ met with ? and what sorrow hath he undergone from devils , from men , nay , and from divine justice , and incensed wrath , when he put himself in our law place ? what reproaches and temptations did attend him ? what tears did he shed ? what anguish did he feel ? and what a bloody agony did he pass under ? and what a painful und shameful death did he die ? and also what opposition and resistance , scorn and contempt doth he daily still meet with from sinners ? oh! how averse are men to accept of peace and reconciliation with god by christ ? some contemn his blood , rendring it as an empty and carnal thing , and think to obtain peace by another christ ; a christ within , even by the law or light in their hearts : others by a new law , or by their faith and sincere obedience . — moreover , some value the league they have made with sin , hell , and death , and will not nullifie that , but esteem that covenant before and above this covenant of peace , made between the father and son , and confirmed by christ's blood. but i can proceed no further at this time . sermon iii. further opening the work of christ as mediator : together with the exercise of his offices , as king , priest , prophet , surety , testator , &c. isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . the doctrine i have raised from these words , is this , viz. doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed upon , and stands firm in behalf of all god's elect. i am , my brethren , upon the work and office of christ , as mediator of this covenant of peace ; i have gone through an induction of nine particulars , and shall now proceed : x. a mediator ought to be indowed with much patience and long-suffering for peace sake , either from the one or the other party . now , my brethren , jesus christ , the mediator of peace in this covenant , hath shewed wonderful patience , he indured the anger and wrath of god ; the father smote him , and hid his face from him , he spared not his own son. and he was also despised and rejected of men , yet bore it all patiently ; he was oppressed and afflicted , and yet opened not his mouth ; who when he was reviled , he reviled not again , but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously . xi . a mediator must be undaunted , and very courageous , and not tired nor wearied out . jesus christ , my brethren , is full of courage ; he shall not fail nor be discouraged , till he hath set judgment in the earth . tho his work was heavy and amazing which he was to do , yet he fainted not ; god the father having promised to uphold him , i will uphold thee ; indeed it was impossible that he should want courage who was the mighty god , the lord that fainteth not , neither is weary , he hath the fulness of the godhead dwelling bodily in him , i that speak in righteousness mighty to save : he never fainted under his burden so as to cast it off , but faithfully finished the work his father gave him to do ; it is finished , and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost . xii . a mediator must be of a mollifying temper , indeavouring to bring both parties to terms of peace , the one not to stand up to the uttermost rigour of justice further than is absolute requisite , nor the other to remain stubborn and obstinate . now jesus christ the mediator of this covenant of peace in this infinitely excelled all that ever undertook such an office. . how mollifying was his temper towards god ? true , he well knew god could not in point of justice , considering his infinite holiness , rectitude of his nature , and the sanction of his law , abate any thing ; no , not one farthing of the whole debt , but must have full satisfaction ; yet christ brought the majesty of god to accept of his mediation and suretiship for us ; and o how did god condescend to him herein , who might have vigorously exacted a full satisfaction from the sinner himself , and not to have admitted of a substitute for him ! but the blessed mediator prevails with god to accept of payment from his hands instead of a personal satisfaction made by the sinner ; god yields to jesus christ , and accepts of payment or satisfaction from his hands ; not in our persons , but in the person of his son as mediator ; for tho the father might make the first proposal of this to his son , yet 't is by christ's undertaking that god is pacified , &c. he was made a curse for us , therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation , so by the righteousness of one , the free-gift came upon all men unto justification of life . for as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners ; so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous . as adam brought us into debt , and made us obnoxious to divine wrath , so jesus christ hath paid our debts by his active obedience to god's law , and by bearing that wrath on his soul and body which our sins had brought upon us ; for the transgressions of my people was be stricken . . see how the mediator prevails with god , for instead of god's demanding an inherent righteousness , a righteousness wrought out in our persons ; he accepts of an imputed righteousness wrought out in the person of his own son in our nature as mediator , who of god is made unto us , wisdom and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption — in the lord , shall one say , have i righteousness and strength . and then on the other side . ( . ) christ is of a mollifying temper towards man , for he brings man that he might partake of the blessings of peace , to forego or give up all his own righteousness as good for nothing ; nay , to account it as dung in point of justification at god's bar , or when it is compared to the righteousness of god in christ , and instead of seeking justification by our own righteousness , or by our faith and sincere obedience , utterly to renounce it , and to submit to the righteousness of god , that we may be justified freely by his grace , through the redemption that is in christ jesus . ( . ) not to work to be justified , not to repent or love god to be justified , but to work not , but believe in him that justifies the vngodly . ( . ) not to work for life , but from life , i. e. from a principle of life wrought in the soul , not to change one work or act of the creature in justification to another work or act of the creature ; i mean not to renounce all works of the law in point of justification , and to include gospel-works , or faith and obedience as part of our justifying righteousness before god ; no , no , but to exclude all manner of works , faith and obedience whatsoever , and to rest upon christ alone , or on his righteousness exclusive of all the creature doth , or can do . ( . ) and tho the soul sees he is already justified , and accepted in the beloved , and for ever delivered from wrath and condemnation ; yet to live a holy life and renounce all sin and iniquity from a principle of faith ; and because sin is so hateful unto god , and so abominable in his sight , and because christ is his lord , therefore to do all things whatsoever he commandeth him , and all this in love to christ , not to seek his acceptance and justification by the worth of his faith and obedience , but in christ , and to account himself an vnprofitable servant , when he hath done all that christ hath commanded him . ( . ) christ never leaves his elect , until he hath brought them to these terms . xiii . a mediator whose mediation is rejected , after long patience , leaves the offended and obstinate person to the severity of that law he hath broke , and under the sentence thereof . so , my brethren , will the lord jesus christ , after long patience , and forbearance , leave all obstinate , rebellious , and unbelieving sinners , to the severity of the law of god which they have broken , and to the wrath and vengeance of god ; he that believeth not , is condemned already . all are condemned in the first adam , and their condemnation will be aggravated upon them , because they reject the offers of peace , or the mediation of jesus christ , and believe not in him ; and indeed all men would do this , was not infinite love shewed , and power put forth towards some according to god's eternal purpose in election . xiv . a mediator leaves no liberty of an appeal after he hath passed the definitive sentence . moreover , it is some times left to him also to pass that sentence . so , my brethren , the lord christ at the last day will leave no room for any sinner to appeal to any other court or person , there will be no relief ; for god the father hath committed all judgment to the son ; he will therefore pass the definitive sentence against all mankind in the day of judgment ; for the father judgeth no man , but hath committed all judgment to the son : all judgment in the administration of the mediatory kingdom , is given to jesus christ , and in and by the son will god judge the world : because he hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness , by that man whom he hath ordained , whereof he hath given assurance to all men in that he hath raised him from the dead . the mediator of this peace shall judge all men , he shall execute judgment , because he is the son of man ; and this god will do , that all men may honour the son , even as they honour the father : which shews , that the same honour and divine worship is due to christ , that is due to god the father , he being the very same eternal god. so much at present as to christ's work , as mediator of this covenant of peace . and now let me apply this , before i proceed to the next thing , which is the suretiship of christ. application . . we infer from hence , that sin is exceeding sinful : o what evil is there in sin ! that nothing can atone for it , nor make our peace , but the blood of the lord jesus christ the mediator . it is not his bare pleading , but it must be done by his bleeding or dying for us , or in our stead : and o how great was that breach , which nothing could make up , but such a bloody sacrifice ! . we also infer from hence , that god's love to us in christ is an amazing and wonderful love , our peace shall be made , tho it cost god the blood of his own dear and beloved son ; god so loved the world , how was that ? who can conceive of the greatness of it ? even so as he gave his only begotten son to die for us , even for his enemies : god commended his love towards us in that , while we were yet sinners christ died for us ; for when we were enemies we were reconciled to god by the death of his son : not that god was only reconcileable , but by that sacrifice god was reconciled ; our faith doth not reconcile god to us , but we thereby receive the atonement , or the blessing of peace and reconciliation . . we infer likewise from hence , that the love of jesus christ was wonderful , and his condescention exceeding great : what , did god take our nature into union with himself ? what , is the lord of heaven and earth born of a woman ? the ancient of days became a child of a day old ? he that was in the form of god , found in the form of a servant ; shall god purchase his church with his own blood ? this is amazing to think upon . . we infer from hence also , how wonderfully god hath hereby exalted and magnified man : christ is a man , truly man , tho god as well as man ; he that is god , is a man : forasmuch as the children are made partakers of flesh and blood , he also himself took part of the same ; and by this means we are nearly related to god , he is our kinsman , the nearest of kin had under the law the right of redemption , to raise up seed to the dead : christ is our kinsman , our brother , and by this means the inheritance ( even god ) and all he hath ) is setled on the whole heavenly family , or on all his seed , or elect : what can exalt man more than this ? o what greater honour could be conferred on our nature then , for the son of god to assume it into personal union with the godhead ! ( . ) hereby we are made near to god , even nearer than the holy angels ; verily he took not on him the nature of angels , but the seed of abraham . angels are not the spouse of christ ; they are not bone of his bone , and flesh of his flesh , but christ is flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone ; and hereby also we have a nearer union with god than adam had in innocency ; nay , as i said , nearer than the angels have ; for believers are christ's mystical body , christ is the head of the church ; for both he that sanctifieth , and they who are sanctified , are all of one ; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren . ( . ) our nature hereby ( as one observes ) is the store-house or treasury of all that good which god intends to dispense to men and angels . moreover , angels and men worship god in our nature , that is , jesus christ , god-man : and how astonishing is this ? ( ) moreover , god in our nature shall be the judge of men and angels ; the man christ is god's equal , god's fellow . and , ( . ) what dignity and honour is it then to be espoused to such a prince ? ( . ) this speaks great comfort to believers ; christ who is mediator , is near unto god , and as near unto us , the father hath called , chosen , anointed and accepted of him in our behalf ; he can sympathize with us , he knows our infirmities , and he hath always god's ear , and god's heart , and represents us , and our cause to the father . exhortation . sinners , will not you accept of peace ? . shall such a mediator make your peace ; nay , die to make your peace with god , and shall any refuse to accept of that peace which he hath made . . the terms are not hard but easie ; it is to believe in him , to trust in him , to believe he hath made your peace , or that god in him is reconciled ; 't is to sue out your pardon through faith in his blood. take a few motives to stir you up thus to do . . consider that you cannot have peace with god any other ways , there is no other name given under heaven whereby you can be saved . . that whosoever cometh to him , receiveth him , believeth in him , resteth upon him , shall not perish , but have everlasting life . . consider how able he is to save ; he is able to save all that come to god by him , and to save them to the uttermost , tho they are never such great sinners , abominable sinners , prophane sinners . . consider the necessity of the application of his blood , or of that atonement which he hath made ; he that believeth not , shall be damned , if ye believe not that i am he ; that is , ( that i am the only messiah , the only mediator , the only saviour , and that i am able to save you ) ye shall die in your sins . . consider the woful condition of such that reject jesus christ , or lay not hold on his strength , or that slight his mediation , or that think to find peace some other way ; some think to have peace by the law , by the moral law , either as it is written in the two tables , or as it is written in the hearts of all men , or by the light of their own natural conscience , others by a new law , turning the gospel into a law , and so bring in ( and seek to establish ) their own righteousness . alas , if there had been a law ( as paul shews ) that could have given life , then christ is dead in vain . these cast great contempt upon the mediation of jesus christ ; nay , strive to frustrate the grand design of god , in contriving our salvation by his son jesus christ , which was to magnifie his own free grace alone , and to abase the creature , that no man might boast , or glory in himself , but that all might be ashamed , and confounded for ever . question . what offices doth jesus christ exercise as he is mediator . answ. i answer : divines generally assert , that he exerciseth a threefold office , and this every one ought to know , and also the work of christ in respect had unto each office , or what peculiarly relates to his priestly office , and what to his kingly office , and what to his prophetical office , &c. a little to each of these . . he is a priest , and as a priest he is the propitiation for our sins ; he hath satisfied justice by a condign price , the price of the blood of him who is god , he paid our debts to the last farthing ; as a priest he laid down the atoning sacrifice , and thereby quenched the flames of god's divine wrath and vengeance , which ootherways would have fed on us to an endless eternity . . and as a priest he interceeds now in heaven , that all those for whom he died may be called , and have the merits of his blood applied to their souls ; and that all that are called , and do believe , may have all that grace which they need bestowed upon them , to help them to resist temptations , and to be supported under all trials and afflictions , and be enabled to perform all holy duties , and have all their sins pardoned . if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father , jesus christ the righteous ; he presents his righteousness , the deserts , merits , and satisfaction of his blood , for remission of all their sins , neither can sin be charged at any time upon any believer , as to that vindicative wrath which is due to it , because he pleads the satisfaction of his own blood as their full discharge from the guilt and punishment thereof for ever ; for otherwise justified persons might again come under condemnation , which they cannot ; for there is now no condemnation to them that are in christ jesus , &c. and thus was christ a priest ; i. e. on earth he eminently sacrificed and offered up himself to god ; how much more shall the blood of christ , who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to god , purge your consciences from dead works , to serve the living god. and in heaven also he eminently intercedes for us , seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them ; and that his atonement might be efficacious to us , he now appears in the presence of god for us ; therefore it is said , that we are come to jesus the mediator of the new covenant , and to the blood of sprinkling , that speaketh bitter things than the blood of abel . come to jesus , &c. that is , to a clearer knowledge of his work and office : sirs , all christ's satisfaction and priesthood would be ineffectual for our good , if he did not continue in the exercise of it in heaven by his intercession ; for it is by virtue of his intercession that all his merits are applied to us ; for if when we were enemies we were reconciled to god by the death of his son , or god was reconciled to us , ( for it is that , which the holy ghost intends ; ) much more being reconcil'd we shall be saved by his life ; the design of this office therefore was to make our peace , or our reconciliation to god by a price paid , and to apply that atonement that it might be effectual , and continued unto us for ever : christ doth not reconcile god to us as a king , but as a priest , and it is not done by what he works in us , but by what he hath done for us . ii. as christ is a priest , so also he is a king : he is , i say , invested with kingly authority , as he is mediator ; yet have i set my king upon my holy hill of sion . his kingdom ( as one observes ) is not regnum naturale , which he hath as god , co-essential with the father , but regnum oeconomicum , which he hath by donation and vnction from his father , it is given to him as mediator . moreover , his power as king is very great , he is king of kings , and lord of lords , the only potentate . . king over sin , which as a tyrant hath long reigned . . king over devils , and all the powers of darkness . . king over death , that king of terrors ; the keys of hell and death are given to him . . king of saints , ( he being the universal head of the church ) and king of nations . . nay , he hath kingly power and headship over the holy angels ; he is the head of principalities and powers ; yea , his power is over all creatures , god hath put all things under his feet . his kingship and authority is therefore universall , all power is given to me in heaven and earth . and hence , there is nothing which he ( as mediator god-man ) cannot do . now the work of christ as king. . is to subdue all our enemies for us , which indeed he hath effectually already done , sin , the world , devils , and death , being all brought under his feet . . to give us laws , statutes , and ordinances ; for as he is mediator , he is our law-giver , but he doth not give us laws that by our obedience to them our peace should be made , and we be justified : in this sense christ is no law-giver ; no , to make our peace that appertains partly to his priestly office , ( as i have shewed you before ) and partly to his suretiship , for so he paid both our debt of perfect obedience , and our penal debt also , and merited all grace and glory for us ; for tho christ is a priest , yet he is more than a priest , viz , a surety also ) but he gives us laws as we are his free-born subjects , whom he redeemed by his blood , that we might know how to honour , and live under him that died for us and rose again . . his work as king is to govern his church , and every member thereof ; moreover , his laws in the new testament do contain , all those rules for the constitution of a gospel-church , and also all the rules of the government and discipline thereof . . christ's work and office as king is to subdue all the elect unto himself ; i mean , to work grace in them , and to change their hearts , and vanquish the power of sin , and satan , for this is , and must be done by that almighty power which he exerts by his spirit in their souls , and so takes possession of them as king and supream ruler , whom as a priest he purchased by his blood ; and all this as he is mediator of this covenant of peace , that christ may dwell in our hearts by faith , or sway the scepter there . . moreover , christ as king , will exercise his kingly office , in taking to him his great authority and regal power , and reign over all the earth : for his right is , ask of me , and i will give thee the heathen for thy inheritance , and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession : thou shalt break them in pieces like a potters vessel — the kingdoms of this world , are become the kingdom of our lord , and of his christ , and he shall reign for ever and ever : and of the increase of his government , there shall be no end upon the throne of david , and upon his kingdom , to order it , and to establish it with justice and with judgment , from henceforth and for ever . all the kingdoms under the whole heavens , shall be given unto him , and he shall possess the gates of his enemies — this will be made good more fully and visibly upon the going off of the fourth-monarchy , and upon the passing away of the second woe , or mahomitan power , and downfal of the beast , and mystery babylon , which is now at the very door , when christ will save his church from all her enemies . iii. christ as mediator is a prophet ; a prophet shall the lord your god raise up unto you , of your brethren like unto me : he as prophet , is the minister of the new covenant , or the chief and great ambassador of peace , the chief shepherd of the sheep , and bishop of our souls . his work as a prophet . . is to reveal the will , purpose , counsel , and design of god unto his chosen ; and this he did in the days of his flesh in his own , and in his apostles ministration revealing , that my-mystery that was hid from ages and generations — he was indeed a teacher that came from god , as nichodemus saith , my doctrine ( saith he ) is not mine , but the father 's that sent me ; for i have not spoken of my self , but the father which sent me gave me commandment what i should say , and what i should speak ; denoting that he received his mission , his doctrine , and his authority to preach from the father as he is mediator . as a prophet he gives the knowledge of salvation to his people , for without his divine revelation , mankind could not arrive to the knowledge of it ; for the light that is in man naturally reveals nothing of the mystery of redemption , of the covenant of peace , and mediation of jesus christ. . nor can any savingly know this , but as christ reveals it by his spirit , as the great prophet and teacher of the church ; no man knoweth the son but the father , neither knoweth any man the father but the son , and he to whomsoever the son will rev●al him . no man knoweth the essence of the father , or hath a perfect knowledge of the godhead ; nor do they know the councils , purposes , and dispensations of the father of his saving of men by jesus christ , except jesus christ reveals these mysteries to them ; all true and saving knowledge of god , is in and through christ as a prophet . but as christ doth not atone for our sins as a king , but as a priest , so he doth not give forth laws , &c. as a priest , but as a king ; nor doth he teach , instruct , or reveal god , and salvation to us simply as a priest or king , but as a prophet ; besides there are some things about the covenant of peace , which he doth not simply as a king , priest , nor prophet , but as simply consider'd a mediator , surety , and testator , &c. i would therefore desire mr. sam. clark , for all his confidence , to consider of his great mistake in his late treaty , * doth it follow ( should it be granted ) because christ's active obedience doth not properly belong neither to his kingly , his priestty , nor to his prophetical office , that therefore his active obedience to god's law , or active righteousness is no part of the matter of our justification before god , for may not some things be done by christ , as mediator , or as surety , or testator , that doth not properly relate to either of his other three offices ; for evident it is , that the whole of christ's work in this covenant of peace , doth not strictly belong to these threefold offices ; therefore the scripture gives an account of other offices besides these , which he exerciseth . but i will proceed a little further to open the offices of christ in the covenant of peace : and , i. of the necessity of his exercising of these offices as mediator . . of his priestly office , it was absolutely necessary that he should be a priest , and that in our nature , because he was to answer the types under the law , the priests of the law that were ceremonially sanctified , and were to sanctifie others , were of the same nature with the people . and since they offered sacrifices up to god , it also behoved him to offer up the antitypical , real , and wrath-appeasing sacrifice and . forasmuch that we were slaves and captives of sin , and satan , being in chains and fetters by such enemies that none could redeem us out of their hands , but one cloathed with almighty and infinite power . it behoved jesus christ to be a king , who is invested with god-like power and authority , upon this account . and since it was the father's good pleasure to exalt and magnifie him with the sole government of the world , and of the church , it was necessary he should be constituted , and invested with kingly authority likewise . . and since we were ignorant of god , and under deep alienation from god , having the vnderstanding darkened , being alienated from the life of god , through the ignorance in them , because of the blindness of their hearts : it behoved jesus christ to be a prophet ; yea , such a prophet that can not only teach the knowing , and understanding heart , but can give knowledge to the heart which is without understanding ; and seeing we were blind and ignorant of the way of salvation , it behoved him that was to make our peace , to bring us to the knowledge of that peace and reconciliation he hath made . moreover , we were dead , therefore he must quicken us ; we were enemies , therefore he must reconcile us to god , as well as god to us , we were impotent , and could not come to the father , therefore he , as a kingly-prophet , must draw us ; the father draws us by jesus christ to himself ; also we were in debt , and divine justice will be satisfied , and will not abate us one farthing , therefore christ must be our surety to engage , and also actually pay all our debts , in respect of the preceptory and penal parts thereof ; for we owed perfect obedience unto god , as well as punishment . also he was to confirm the covenant of peace by his blood , and make his last will and testament , and bequeath many legacies to all the legatees ; therefore it was necessary that he should be a testator ; yea , the testator of the new testament , or covenant . — furthermore , we were sick , therefore it behoved him to be appointed our physician , we were as sheep gone astray , therefore he is our shepherd . ii. as to the end and excellencies of christ's offices , i have lately opened them in a late treatise upon jacob's ladder , to which i shall direct you ; but know this , the whole design and purport of all his offices are , that he might effectually be impowered with all things necessary , in respect had to the glory and honour of god , and for our good , and to give us interest in all the blessings of the covenant of peace . objection . 't is objected , that christ did not suffer for sinners as a common person , head , and representative of all the elect , or their surety , but did all meerly as a mediator , or as one indeavouring to compose the difference betwixt god and sinners . answ. i answer , sad it is to see how in these perilous days men are degenerated from the apostolick doctrine in this most important case , and oppose all our autho●● protestant writers , and deny christ to be a common person , head , representative , and surety , &c. but that he , as mediator , hath by his death merited a new and mild law of grace , i. e. of faith and sincere obedience , and hath made a compensation to the justice of god , and law of works , and so removed the law of perfect obedience , or abolished it for ever ; so that now god deals with us not according to the strict law of perfect obedience , but according to this new law , i. e. on easier conditions , viz. such that believe and sincerely obey , shall be justified even so far as they do obey , and are sanctified ; not that christ's obedience to the law , or that his active and passive obedience imputed to us , and our trusting in him according to the free promise of god , is the immediate and sole cause of pardon , by virtue of christ's satisfaction ; but that tho christ hath made god a means for legal righteousness , having satisfied that law , and took it away ; yet our obedience to this new law according to these men , is our evangelical righteousness , whereby we fulfil the gospel , and that our obedience is the condition of our justification before god : thus mr. baxter , mr. williams , mr. clark of wickham , and many others . and thus is popery revived amongst us , and justification by works asserted by these law and work-mongers , for i cannot call them gospel-ministe-s ; true , they affirm that christ died for our good , but not in our stead ; the doctrine we maintain , is , that he died for our good ; but how for our good ? even so , that he suffered as our head and representative in our stead or room , the just for the vnjust , or the surety for the principal , or for the sinner ; and this according to the terms agreed upon in the covenant of peace , ( and not simply for our good any otherwise ) god being in his own nature just , as well as gracious , could not without wrong , or injury to his justice , holiness , and the sanction of his law acquit , justifie and pardon any sinner , without a full satisfaction to both law , and justice , and this must either be done by us , or by our surety for us . . we affirm , that the law of perfect obedience results from the holiness , purity , and rectitude of god's nature ; and therefore it stands as a perpetual law , and can never be abolished as a rule of life , tho it be taken away as it required perfect obedience of us , or as a law of works to be fulfilled and satisfied for in our own persons in point of justification . do we then make void the law through faith ? god forbid ? yea , we establish the law ; because by christ we attain a perfect righteousness , being interested in his most compleat and perfect obedience to the moral law , and by his spirit to live in more exact conformity thereunto : my brethren , is it not our duty still , and as much as ever it was , to love the lord our god with all our hearts , with all our souls , and with all our strength , and our neighbour as our selves ; not only sincerely , but perfectly ; nay , to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect : tho we are not able to do this , yet the moral law still remains , and requires us thus to do ; true , we shall not be damned for want of this perfect obedienc , because christ hath in our nature , and stead , kept the law perfectly for us ; and so he is the end of the law in respect of righteousness to all that believe . christ did not come to engage , or undertake as a mediator , that we should perfectly in our own persons , keep the moral law , and so be justified in god's sight ; nor did he come to undertake that we should sincerely keep any other law to that end ; much less , leave us to the exercise of our natural , or spiritual abilities , to keep such a law , as the condition of our justification , and acceptation with god ; but he came to procure for us such a righteousness by his own obedience and suffering , that the holiness , justice , and law of god doth require of us if we are justified with god , for what the law could not do , in that it was weak through the flesh , god sent furth his son , &c. t is a hard case , my brethren , that these degenerate presbyterians , or any pretending to be gospel-preachers , should deny christ to be a common head and surety for the elect ; for he that dies in the stead and room of others , is by the consent of the law-giver substituted in their law place , and so takes upon him the capacity of a surety , representative , or common person , undertaking to do , and suffer what others should , but these men deny this relation or capacity of christ as a surety , in this sense , and therefore deny he obeyed and died in our stead . and from hence it follows also that christ did not do that for us , which our own perfect obedience did do , whilst man stood , and would have done , had he not sinned , i. e. justified him , or have given him a title to life . . moreover , if christ was not put in our law place , as our representative and surety , why was he made of a woman , and made under the law ? was it not that the law might reach him ? ( . ) as to its commanding power as our surety , to pay the debt of perfect obedience thereunto . ( . ) and as a sinner , in a law sense , to die , or be made sin for us , ( that is by imputation ; ) for had not he been under the law , the law could not have reached him in either sense , i. e. either to do or suffer , and had not he took our law place upon him , we could not have been the better ; for what could his taking our nature on him have profited us , had he not been substituted in our room ? but as we were obliged by the law , justice , and holiness of god , to keep the law perfectly , so he was made under the law to keep it for us , and as we were sinful men , and liable to the just sentence of the law for our violation of it , so he was made under the law , and as our representative and surety , to die and to satisfie divine justice for our transgressions that were against it . he was made under the law , i. e. under the preceptory part of it , to fulfil and establish that ; he satisfied for that part of the law. he was under the law , as being liable to the punishment , or penalty of the law , that he might answer and fulfil that , and for ever deliver us from the punishment thereof , and all this as our surety standing in our law place . reproof . this may tend severely to reprehend those new and erroneous notions that so prevail amongst us , concerning christ's work and office as mediator ; we say , and prove that by christ's active and perfect obedience to the law , we are justified and delivered from wrath and condemnation , or that by christ's righteousness imputed , believers are perfectly justified , and freed from the curse of the law , and are certainly entituled to eternal life . . but our new work-mongers assert , that our justification or right to life , dependeth wholly upon our obedience ( to the gospel as a law ) as the condition to which it is promised : therefore ( as one observes ) it puts us into a condition of life imperfect , and subject to change , as obedience it self is , and that we are not perfectly justified till our obedience is perfected : thus mr. clark of high-wickham , and others . take mr. clark's words , viz. our justification at present , while we are in this world , is but partial , imperfect , and incompleat . ans. now , say i , this confounds justification , with sanctification ; and as i have told him , then it also follows that believers are partly justified , and partly condemned , i. e. we are not acquitted from the guilt of all sin , whilst in this world , and so christ's dove is not vndefiled : lord , what an age do we live in ! . we say , that we are made partakers of christ's righteousness , and the benefits of it , by our union with him through the spirit , by which means faith is wrought in us , by which we apprehend him ; and we say , that faith is an instrument whereby we receive him , faith only justifying us objectively , i. e. it is not faith , but jesus christ that faith takes hold of , that doth justifie us in the sight of god. but they say , that faith in its whole latitude , is our believing and obeying the gospel ; that is , faith and all the fruits thereof , or faith and obedience , ( or , if you please , faith and gospel-works : ) for mr. clark says , that justification by works , springing from faith , is justification by faith , in this sense . again , they say , that we are made partakers of the benefits of christ , he having purchased this grant or law , i. e. that they that do obey him to the end , shall be saved ; that is , our obedience doth both justifie us and save us . answ. the vanity of which , and how erroneous it is , we have shewed some time since * . . they say , christ hath merited a new law , or easier terms and conditions , that our faith , obedience , and good works may justifie , and save us ; but what saith paul , all boasting is excluded ; not legal boasting only , but all boasting , and cause of boasting , but by their new law boasting is let in . moreover , he says , if it be of grace , it is not of works ; and if it be of works , it is not of grace ; or else grace is no more grace , and works no more works . brethren , works cannot mix with free grace ; they are directly contrary to each other in their nature ; besides , these men forget that we are justified alone by the obedience and righteousness of one , ( even as we were made sinners by the disobedience of one ) and that is by the righteousness of christ imputed to us ; for it was by the disobedience of adam , as imputed to us , that we became sinners . in a word , christ hath wrought out a righteousness for us , which is put upon us , or accounted , or imputed to us , and not that christ merited a law , that a justifying righteousness might be wrought out in us , or by us , in conforming to that new law ; who of god is made unto us wisdom , and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption : not only that his righteousness , is the meritorious cause of our justification , as mr. clark affirms , p. . but the material cause thereof , or that by which we are justified , no other righteousness but his which is perfect , being pleadable at god's bar. . we say , that justification of a sinner , is the acceptance of his person , or the pronouncing him just and righteous in god's sight , through the imputation of the righteousness of christ , whereby he hath a full right and title to eternal life . they say , that justification is nothing else but the pardon of sin , i. e. the not executing the punishment of sin due by the law of works , and an acceptance of a man so long as he performeth the new condition of sincere obedience . for the lord's sake , and for your souls sake , beware of those men , and their new and strange doctrine ; for it appears , salvation must be a debt , and not wholly of grace , if what they say were true ; because it is granted upon our fulfilling of the conditions required , which are indeed not light , but weighty and difficult conditions , as faith , regeneration , and perseverance , even mr. dan. william's baptismal covenant , which all they who do not fulfil it , he says , shall be damned ; the violating of that covenant , being , as he affirms , the damning sin : and this so far as i can see , is that which is their covenant of grace ; not that christ ingaged for us to the father , to do all for us , and in us in the covenant of redemption , even to reconcile god to us , and us to god ; no , but that that was a distinct covenant from the covenant of grace , which was to make way for us to enter into a conditional covenant of grace , i. e. of faith , good works , or gospel-obedience . which error and mistake , i purpose , god willing , to refute before i leave my text , and prove the covenant of peace is but one intire covenant with that of redemption . comfort and consolation , if , my brethren , it is as you have heard that jesus christ , as a mediator , is equally interested in both parties , then what comfort is here for believers . . we have no ground to suspect him of partiality ; he will not fail us , because he is so dearly and nearly related to us ; and also considering what he hath done and suffered for us : and for their sakes i sanctifie my self , that they also might be sanctified through the truth . . consider his ability , not only to reconcile us to god , but to continue us in that reconciled state , we may depend upon his power ; for i know whom i have believed , and i am perswaded , that he is able to keep that which i have committed unto him against that day . . considering his love , and faithfulness towards us , in the exercise of his work and office ; faithful is he that calleth you , and also he will do it . . with what boldness also may we come to god by him ? seeing we have such a great high-priest , that is passed into the heavens , jesus the son of god. having therefore , brethren , boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of jesus . this , i say , may encourage us to make our humble supplications to god with boldness , since we have such a mediator between god and us , the man christ jesus . sermon iv. wherein the suretiship of christ is opened . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant made , or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. i am , my brethren , a speaking concerning those transactions betwixt god the father , and god the son , before the world began , about the bringing in , and establishing of the covenant of our peace ; in which transactions i have shewed you the son of god was chosen mediator , considered as god-man , and as to that office of his , we have spoken distinctly ; but as he is mediator , so you have heard he is surety of the covenant of peace , and so more than a meer , or simple mediator . and since the covenant of peace so much dependeth upon the suretiship of christ ; i shall here , i. shew what surety doth import , or open this relation . ii. shew why christ came under this relation . iii. shew what christ was to do , and we were to receive as christ's our surety . iv. shew how his suretiship differs from suretiship among men. v. apply it . . a surety is one that undertakes for others , wherein they are defective , really , or in reputation , in latin , sponsor fide jussor ; a surety is one that engages to make satisfaction for one , or more , or ingageth for others : thus ruben became surety to his father jacob , gen. . . to bring benjamin again ; and paul for onesimus , philem. , . if he hath wronged thee , or oweth thee ought , put that on mine account ; i paul have written it with my own hand , i will pay it : in this sense we take christ to be a surety . ( . ) it signifies likewise to give a pledge , isa. . . kings . . . ( . ) also to strike hands , prov. . . thus christ is our surety , i. e. he struck hands with god for us in this covenant . i say , a surety is one that undertakes for one or more persons whose credit is gone , or is not good ; one not to be trusted , or whose faithfulness , or ability is suspected . now , my brethren , when man had broken the law of the first covenant , his credit was gone or lost for ever ; god would not enter into covenant any more with him without a surety , he knowing that man's inability and unfaithfulness in his fallen estate ; therefore was graciously pleased to provide for us , or in our behalf , a sponsor , or surety ; by so much was jesus made a surety of a better covenant : as christ engaged to god for us , to satisfie for our sins , and to bring us into a state of grace , and peace with god , and preserve us in that state to the end , and to give security to the covenant of peace , which he is a surety of , he is call'd a surety : and as he gives all good things , and divine blessings to us , he is called a testator ; for a testator denotes one dying , making his last will and testament firm , and bequeathing legacies to his friends ; some i know would not have christ be a surety of that covenant that was made betwixt god the father and himself , ( which they call the covenant of redemption ) but of the covenant of grace made with us , but i know no ground for such a distinction ( as i shall hereafter prove ; ) my brethren , evident it is , that had not our mediator engaged in this covenant of peace and redemption for us , there had been no covenant nor peace for us at all , because all dependeth on christ's suretiship , or on christ's obligation to the father for us ; nor did god ever manifest more rich grace to us , than he did in providing of such a surety for man. and hence god saith ( speaking of the covenant of grace ; ) my mercy will i keep for him for ever , and my covenant shall stand fast with him : i have laid help upon one that is mighty , i have exalted one chosen out of the people ; one able to perform and do all his pleasure , one that he can trust , who neither wants ability nor faithfulness . . a surety commonly engageth for one party , even for him whose credit is suspected , or who being poor , the creditor will not , nor cannot trust him ; the lord jesus is only a surety for us unto god , not for god to us , for god had no need for any to engage , or be a surety for him , he never failed any of his creatures , he broke not his covenant with man , but man with him ; because they continued not in my covenant , i regarded them not , saith the lord. therefore god will not treat , nor trade with man any more without such a mediator , and surety as christ is ; therefore i am not of his opinion that saith , that the suretish●p of christ was , that sinners might be induced to give god credit , and that he might have a responsal party to deal with ; for this is to cast contempt upon the holy , and faithful god , as if he is not to be trusted in , without he gives us good security , that he will not fail , nor deceive us . . the end of suretiship among men , is to give stability and security in case of bonds or covenants , &c. that such bonds or covenants may be firm and sure ; and to this end did christ become the surety of this covenant of peace , grace , and redemption . my brethren , this covenant depends upon the suretiship of jesus christ , upon whose undertakings and security god promised and covenanted with him , to be our god again , and to give to us all that good which was in his heart , to bestow upon his elect from everlasting . there being such things requisite to be done in order hereunto , which god well knew we were not able to perform , i. e. the satisfaction of his justice , or payment of all our debts , and victory over all our enemies , and that this covenant might not be broken , as the first was . my covenant shall stand fast in him . . suretiship imports , that the obligation be free and voluntary , for the law forces none to be a surety , or to engage for others . my brethren , tho god chose jesus christ to be the surety of this covenant for us , yet christ as a most free and voluntary act on his part , undertook that office , for that law we had broke , laid no obligation on him , nor was he under any necessity of nature to undertake herein , because he was the son of god , but it is ascribed wholly to his infinite love and goodness , and as a sovereign act of his own free grace , to undertake for man , and not for angels , and also only for some of the lost sons of adam , and not for all : no man taketh my life from me , but i lay it down freely ; i have power to lay it dnwn , and i have power to take it up again . lo , i come in the volume of the book , it is written of me to do thy will , o god. . suretiship imports not only a voluntary obligation for others , or for another : but also union of parties , or assumption of the condition of that person or debtor : in a law sence it denotes a foederal , or law union , the surety and the debtor are but one party ; yet not so , but that it is the surety that pays ; it is his money , and not the debtors . my brethren , christ , by vertue of his suretiship , did not only take our sins upon him , but our nature , and put himself in our law-place , he took our condition upon him : he was made of a woman , made under the law to redeem them . object . i know it is objected , if christ and the elect are but one party , and that his righteousness be ours , i. e. imputed to us , or that he did , and suffered all in our stead , then we are our own saviours ; we are mediators , as having a mediator's righteousness . ans. this ( as one well observes ) follows not ; for they may as well argue the debtor is the surety , because his surety's payment is accepted for him . object . again they object , if christ our surety and we are one , and that his righteousness is ours , then we are as righteous as christ. ans. they may as well affirm the bankrupt is as rich as his surety , because his surety pays his debts . . a surety doth not only ingage for debtors , but also sometimes for criminals . those that christ became surety for in the covenant of peace , to reconcile to god , and to redeem from sin and hell , were criminals , and not only debtors ; we all deserved death , and were under the sentence thereof . the evangelists render the words , sins , and debts promiscuously , as luke . . compared with matth. . . the laws of some countries admit of a surety for a criminal ; i. e. that one man shall die for another : thus did christ obey the law for us , and die for us : he was made a curse for us — gave himself for us — his life a ransom for us — the just for the vnjust — made sin for us : all proves he was a surety for condemned criminals , and so died in our stead , to satisfie the law , and justice of god ; what the law could not do — god sent his own son ; i. e. we could not keep it perfectly , nor satisfie for the breach of it ; therefore christ died not only nostro bono , for our good and profit , as the socinians , and our work-mongers say , but nostra vice , in our room , he died for his church , for his elect , as he died not for the holy angels , yet he died for their good , and for the whole creation in some sense ; he is the head , and confirmer of the angels ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is instead , the sufferings of the saints are for the good of the church , but they are not substituted to obey and die in the stead of others : a surety to obey and die for others , as one hath abundantly proved , is to obey and die in their stead or room . . a surety having paid all , and fully satisfied for debtors ; it follows , that neither the creditor , nor the law can exact satisfaction of the debtors , and also that the debtors for whom satisfaction is made , shall be delivered out of prison , and be actually discharged and acquited according to the time and terms agreed on between the creditor , and the surety . god will not , cannot in point of justice and righteousness exact satisfaction of any sinners , for whom christ became a surety , and hath safied ; for i. e. they cannot suffer in hell , but shall all in due time be actually discharged and acquited , and the law sentence taken off of them : for no sooner are their eyes opened , or are illuminated by the spirit , but they plead , that their surety hath paid all for them ; he hath paid their debt of perfect obedience , and hath also born all that vindictive wrath and vengeance that was due to them for their sins ; who was delivered for our offences , and was raised again for our justification : the lord laid on him the iniquities of us all . ii. why did-christ become a surety for us , and put his hand to the covenant ? . because his love and bowels were such to god's elect , his love constrained him thus to do . . because he would readily comply with his father's will , design , and purpose herein , which was to exalt his infinite grace and divine goodness to mankind . . it was to raise the honour , or cause all the divine attributes to shine forth in their equal glory , and meet together in his work and undertakings as mediator and suretiship , in sweet harmony . . because he would magnifie god's law , and make it honourable : but more of this hereafter . . because he knew god would not otherwise enter into a covenant of peace , to save lost sinners , man being weak , and unable to answer what both law and justice required , in order to our peace and reconciliation with god : whatsoever the law exacted on us , he engaged and condescended to do as our surety ; he promised and struck hands to satisfie whatsoever the law , i say , could demand of god's elect. see heb. . . rom. . . heb. . , . iii. what was christ to do , and we receive by vertue of his mediation and suretiship ? first , whatsoever christ as mediator covenanted with the father to do , that he considered as the surety of the said covenant engaged to perform . . to vindicate the honour of god in all the perfections of his nature , particularly to preserve the justice and veracity of god , and sanction of his holy law. . he engaged as the surety of the covenant , to restore to man , or to all god's elect , that righteousness which man lost , that as we were made sinners by adam's disobedience , so by his obedience we should all be made righteous ; that as the sin of the first adam was imputed to our condemnation , so his righteousness , as our covenanting head , might be imputed to all his seed , and all this according to the contrivance of god's infinite wisdom , and to answer the design , purpose , and proposal of god the father , in the council of peace . . and seeing man was a rebel , and in arms against god , and filled with rage and madness , and having enmity in his mind against god , being alienated from the life of god : jesus christ , as our surety , engaged to change the hearts of all he undertook for , and bring them to accept of terms of peace , through the blood of his cross ; i say , he ingaged to god to bring home all that were given to him . hence he says , them i must bring , and they shall hear my voice : he must bring them because of the covenant he had made with god the father ; and upon the consideration of that obligation , he laid himself under , as their surety . he must circumcise our hearts to love the lord our god ; for christ also hath once suffered for sins , the just for the vnjust , that he might bring us to god. from hence it appears , that christ by virtue of these articles of peace , as our surety , engaged to open blind eyes , and to bring the prisoners out of the prison-house , and to set at liberty those that were bound ; or by the blood of his covenant , to send the prisoners out of the pit , where there was no water ; for this was agreed should be the effects of his undertakings : see zech. . . luke . . the spirit of the lord is upon me , because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor ; he hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted , to preach deliverance to the captives , and recovering of sight to the blind , and to set at liberty them that were bruised . he engaged to take away the heart of stone , and to give us a heart of flesh , to give a new heart for this the father promised in the covenant , and what he promised christ ingaged to do for us ; for without almighty power this cannot be done ; he works all our works in us and for us : he engaged to subdue satan , and divest him , that strong man armed of all his power . in a word , christ as the surety of this covenant , engaged to renovate our hearts , regenerate our souls , or to create the image of god again in us ; and that from his fullness , we should all receive grace for grace : and , indeed , to this end it pleased the father , that in him should all fullness dwell . . jesus christ as our surety , engaged to make good another article in this covenant , which was to preserve all his people in a state of grace , not only to bring us into a state of grace , but to preserve us in the state , or to preserve grace as a vital principle in our souls . that as all the promises of god are made to us in christ , so christ hath engaged that we should persevere in grace and holiness , and that we shall never finally depart from god any more ; he that hath begun a good work in you , will perform it to the day of christ. it is not said , he will finish it , but he will perform it , which denotes his covenant ; as when a faithful man hath engaged to do a piece of work , we say , he will perform it ; he shall bring forth judgment unto victory . . he will according to his promise and covenant , strengthen our faith , and encrease it . . subdue our iniquities ; he will subdue our iniquities , thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea , thou wilt perform thy truth to jacob. . to support and succour us under all temptations , thus he hath promised , and he is faithful , therefore will do it , . cor. . . no temptation hath befallen you , but such that is common to men , and god is faithful , who will not suffer you to be tempted above what you are able , &c. . to comfort us in all our sorrows ; i will not leave you comfortless , &c. . to help us under all our afflictions , reproaches , losses , and persecutions , all these are covenant blessings , and therefore promised to us . . to enable us to perform acceptably all holy duties ; for without him we can do nothing . . to make us fruitful , and so to abide unto the end ; i have chosen you , and ordained you , that you go and bring forth fruit , and that your fruit should remain , the righteous shall flourish like a palm-tree : those that are planted in the house of the lord , shall flourish in the courts o● our god , they shall still bring forth fruit in old age , they shall be fat and flourishing . and all this god hath promised to us by vertue of christ's undertaking as our surety for us . for the grace by which all this is done , was promised first to christ ; he is filled full of grace , as our head of influence : and he hath engaged to god for us to act , and influence us with that grace which he so received , which he doth perform in what measure and manner he pleaseth , through or by virtue of that union we have with him , and by the constant communication of fresh supplies from himself ; therefore it is added , to shew that the lord is vpright , and that there is no vnrighteousness in him . brethren , pray consider this well , that all grace and spiritual blessing whatsoever which we receive , is all promised to us by god the father , and made good to us through christ's mediation , and undertakings , as our surety : for all the promises of god in him , are yea , and in him , amen , unto the glory of god the father . i say , that that mutual covenant betwixt god the father , and our lord jesus christ , makes all covenant blessings and promises sure to us ; all promises are from the father , through christ , by the holy spirit christ received the spirit without measure , upon his covenanting with the father , and he engaged to send the spirit to be the almighty agent to do all things for us ; for as he purchased the spirit for us , so he hath asked it of the father , and still ( as our surety and advocate ) he intercedes with the father for us , that we may receive a gracious measure thereof ; i will pray the father , and he will give you another comforter . the father upon christ's suretiship promised to him , that his spirit shall never depart from him , nor his seed : as for me , this is my covenant with them , saith the lord ; my spirit that is upon thee , and my words which i have put into thy mouth , shall not depart out of thy mouth , nor out of the mouth of thy seed , nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed , from henceforth and for ever . . christ hath engaged to confirm us to the end ; this he undertook as our surety , it was god's promise to him , he shall see his seed : this was promised to him upon what he was to do , and suffer ; and christ , i say , hath engaged as our surety to confirm us ; who shall confirm you to the end ? god is faithful , by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his son jesus christ our lord. jesus christ , by vertue of this covenant , was to have many companions , or fellow heirs of glory , and god's calling us , is the first foundation act in god , of performance of this covenant with christ , and to us in him : the father is as much bound and obliged to keep us , as christ is ; because of that price he hath received for us by christ , which he accepted of in this covenant of peace . . christ was obliged , as our surety , not to lose one of them , which the father gave him ; and this is the father's will that sent me , that of all which he hath given me , i should lose nothing , but should raise it up at the last day . this is as if our lord should have said , the father's will and covenant made with me is , that i should not lose one of his elect. the father ( as one observes ) promised three things to the son in this covenant , upon what he was to do and suffer . . his assistance . . that he should have a seed which he should see . . he promised eternal glory to him , and to all them in him . i. his assistance ; the spirit of the lord shall rest upon him ; the spirit of wisdom , and vnderstanding ; the spirit of counsel , and might ; the spirit of knowledge , and of the fear of the lord. behold my servant that i uphold , mine elect in whom my soul delighteth ; i have put my spirit upon him : well , and what hath christ engaged to do ? he shall bring forth judgment to the gentiles . a bruised reed shall he not break ; and the smoaking flax shall he not quench ; he shall bring forth judgment unto truth . i , the lord , have called thee in righteousness , and will uphold thine hand , and will keep thee , and give thee for a covenant of the people , for a light of the gentiles : that is , for the surety of my covenant . to open blind eyes , &c. he shall feed in the strength of the lord , in the majesty of the name of the lord his god : christ was to plead these promises ; he shall cry unto me , thou art my father , my god , and the rock of my salvation . ii. god promised him a seed . . a numerous seed ; as the dew of the morning in abundance upon the flowers and plants ; fear not for i am with thee , i will bring thy seed from the east , and gather thee from the west . i will say to the north , give up ; and to the south , keep not back : bring my sons from afar , and my daughters from the ends of the earth . . a perpetual seed , or a seed that shall endure for ever ; his seed will i make to endure for ever , and his throne as the days of heaven — my covenant will i not break , &c. iii. the father promised him great glory , and an eternal kingdom ; ask of me , i will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance , and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession ; behold my servant he shall deal prudently , he shall be exalted and extolled and made very high — i will divide him a portion with the great , and he shall divide the spoil with the strong , because he poured out his soul unto death . all power is given to me in heaven and earth . he shall strike through kings , in the day of his wrath. but we see jesus , who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death , crowned with glory and honour — and he shall bring all his to glory too : for it became him for whom are all things , and by whom are all things , in bringing many sons to glory , to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings . as this was promised by the father to him , and to us in him , so he as our surety engaged to bring it to pass , or to make it good unto us object . if jesus christ entered into bonds for us , and that by virtue of the sanction of the law of works , was obliged , as our surety , to suffer for our sins , doth it not follow , that he was surety of the covenant of works ? and how then is it said ▪ he was surety of a better covenant ? answ. tho christ was obliged , as our surety , to fulfil the covenant of works , or of perfect obedience ; yet he was not surety of the covenant of works , because he did not undertake , that we should perfectly keep the law in our own persons , which he must have done , had he been surety of the law of works , but that he would keep that law for us ; and therefore it was another and better covenant . . the covenant of works was made betwixt god and man , without a surety ; the covenant of grace is made betwixt god the father , and jesus christ as our surety for us ; therefore another and better covenant . these men plead for a covenant of grace made betwixt god and us , distinct from the covenant of redemption ; in which , christ , as our surety , engaged that we shall keep the new law of faith , and sincere obedience ; christ having abolished the law of perfect obedience , and merited this mild law , &c. answ. tho the law as a covenant of works , do this and live , is taken away ; yet as a law , or rule of perfect obedience , it remains for ever : as the reverend mr. cross , hath fully proved . . as to their new law , it brings in justification by works ; and such works too , that are attended with sin , or imperfections ; and therefore their doctrine is to be abhorred . see mr. clark's new book ; but more of this hereafter . iv. i shall shew that christ's suretiship greatly differs from suretiship among men. . a surety among men , is not of the creditor's , but of the debtor's procurement . but the surety of the covenant of peace , was of god's procurement , who is man's creditor , or rather offended creator ; god as an act of infinite wisdom , love , and mercy , found him ; i have found a ransom . moreover , the father chose him , called him , and anointed him to be the mediator and surety of this covenant , as hath been fully proved : therefore it doth not follow , that so soon as our surety struck hands , or just when he laid down the price , all god's elect must actually be acquited . for should a creditor find a surety for the debtor , all must confess it is in his choice how and when the debtor should be actually acquited . moreover , 't is evident , that we had no actual existence when christ struck hands for us ; besides , it was for such that he foresaw would fall under sin , wrath , and condemnation , and christ did not become a surety to keep the elect from falling under wrath , and the sentence of death , but to recover them out of that state ; justification presupposeth we were once charged and condemned . . a surety and debtor among men , both enter into the same bond , and the debtor is look'd upon the principal bondsman . but christ's single bond , in this covenant , is accepted for all ; here is a change of persons , god leaves out our names , and puts in christ's name , that the debt , satisfaction , and curse might fall upon him alone . see dr. goodwin : he was made sin for us — christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us ; he was wounded for our transgressions — and now jesus christ here by puting his name unto this bond , is become the principal debtor , and is wholly obliged to pay , and satisfie for all the sins of god's elect ; his suretiship hath swallowed up the offending debtors obligation , to satisfie law and justice . object . doth it not then follow , we need not be concerned to keep or fulfil the law ? answ. we are not to be concerned to keep the law to that end christ kept it , i. e. not to be justified by it , for so it is removed ; but the moral law , as a perfect rule of righteousness , obligeth us to perpetual obedience , it being so unchangable a law. . among men , when the surety makes a full satisfaction for debtors , the said debtors cannot be said to receive their release , or discharge , as an act of grace and favour , but as an act of justice only . but jesus christ , in the covenant of peace , makes full satisfaction for us , and yet we receive our release and discharge as an act of grace and favour alone . . in that god and not we found the surety , which was an act of his own sovereign grace , he being wholly at liberty , whether he would save man , or not . so that our discharge through the satisfaction of christ , must needs primarily and originally flow out of pure grace , favour , love and pity of god to us . had man found the surety , it had been otherwise . . because the surety being the only begotten son of god , it is a farther demonstration of infinite love and favour to us , in that god should substitute him in our stead , and dispence with the rigorous action of satisfaction from us , and take it from our surety , as put in our law-place . . because god , that he might work about our discharge , in a way of grace and mercy , to the honour of his justice , &c. made his own son a sacrifice for our sins . . because that interest we have in that redemption , pardon , peace , and reconciliation by christ's undertakings , is freely bestowed on us , as an act of god's sovereign grace and goodness , for as christ purchased all grace for us , so as an act of god's favour , and christ's purchase and merits , he gives us the spirit and faith , in order to our actual interest in all covenant blessings ; so that altho it all is in a way of justice as to christ , yet it is all in a way of mercy and free-grace as to us . . in that god accepted of christ as a surety for us who deserved no pity , we having wilfully forefeited our vast inheritance , and were become his vile enemies , and rebels against him . . because christ became our surety , from whom he could expect no after recompence , or satisfaction for that vast sum he laid down for us , he never expected any recompence from us for the debt paid . . because we are not only pardoned , and have peace , but by christ's undertaking , are raised to great honour : and o what grace , love , and divine goodness is here ! vse . i admiration . what hath god done ? christ done for us ? what love is this ? . christ knew before he became our surety , that the whole payment would fall upon him , and yet struck hands . . o! what exemption and discharge have we hereby from the law and justice of god ? the law , as our husband , is dead , and we dead to that ; that cruel husband has no more power over us , though as a law , or rule of righteousness , it still commands us , yet it cannot kill us , curse us , nor condemn us to eternal burning . . bless god for jesus christ our surety : what a sweet covenant is this , that we are brought into ? how sure are all covenant mercies ? what riches , glory and power is in christ the mediator ? as thou hast given him power over all flesh , that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him . we are in christ's hand , and none can pluck us out . . we shall for ever abide in this covenant ; our surety hath engaged to keep us , that we shall never break covenant with god any more , so as to lose our inheritance . . how easie hath god made the terms of peace as to us , since christ is obliged to work all our works in us , as well as for us ? ii. what good news is here for broken sinners , who lie condemned by the covenant of works ? o sue out your pardon , by taking hold of christ. iii. reproof . how doth this again tend to reprove such that turn the gospel-covenant , or covenant of peace , into a law , with the sanction of rewards for obedience , and threatnings for disobedience ; denying that christ stood in our law-place , to do and suffer for us , or to keep the law of perfect righteousness , in point of justification , and to die in our stead ? why will men stand upon their own legs ? — proud man would fain live of himself , or have whereof to glory , but not before god , or in christ jesus ; he would have god take his copper , and refuse his own most pure gold. why will they seek relief other ways than by the surety and mediator of the covenant ? can our imperfect righteousness , or sinful duties justifie us at god's bar ? will they dare to plead it at death . iv. trial. is grace given to you ? have you union with christ ? have you a new heart ? do you truly and savingly know the lord ? then you are brought into the bonds of the covenant of peace . v. consolation . if you are once in covenant , you are for ever in covenant , and all covenant-blessing , even all things that are therein promised to christ , as your surety shall be given to you . but no more at this time . and with this i conclude the second thing , under the second general head , viz. that the terms proposed in the covenant of peace betwixt the father and the son , were agreed to , and of christ's work , as mediator and surety therein , i have endeavoured to clear to the weakest capacity . sermon v. containing the ratification , or confirmation of the covenant of peace ; shewing , how , and by what , and when it was confirmed ; also how proclaimed , and what the proclamation is . isa. liv.x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant made , or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. i have shewed you first , that in a covenant of peace there is a treating betwixt the covenanting parties about the terms upon which it is made : and accordingly in order to the making , or bringing in of this covenant , you have heard that there was a treating between the father , and the son before the world began . secondly , that in such a covenant , the terms proposed are agreed unto by both parties ; so i have shewed you it was here ; and also that the mediator of the covenant of peace is jesus christ , who was also the surety thereof ; whose work , both as he is mediator and surety , we have opened . thirdly , i shall now proceed to the next thing , which is the ratification , or confirmation of the covenant . my brethren , there was a twofold confirmation of the covenant . i. it was confirmed by god in christ , and this was , as i conceive , in that council of peace that was held in eternity betwixt them both : true , among men this is called , the signing of the articles of peace ; but there was a full confirmation of this covenant , when it was agreed on , and signed , and that by both parties . . the father confirmed it to christ , and to all the elect in him , by his oath ; i have made a covenant with my chosen , i have sworn unto david my servant : by david is meant jesus christ ; and i see no reason to doubt , but that this oath of god the father to the son , as mediator of our peace , passed to him before the world began ; once have i sworn by my holiness , that i will not lye unto david . my brethren , when god concluded this covenant of peace with jesus christ , he made a promise to him of performing all things which he agreed unto ; and evident it is , that this was before the world began ; in hope of eternal life , which god that cannot lye promised , before the world began . and as it was promised then to christ , as the head and representative of all the elect , on their behalf ; so there is the same parity of reason to believe , that then the oath of god passed to our lord jesus christ , and to us in him also ; and now this promise and oath of god to christ , gives not only solemnity , but also firm and sure stability to this covenant ( . ) he added his oath to his promise ( saith our late annotator on the holy bible ) to make , and prove it to be immutable : hence christ , it is said , was made a priest by an oath , not after the order of aaron : ( . ) but after the order of melchis●●ck . this oath is said to be sworn once , which word and phrase ( saith he ) implies the compleatness , certainty , and irrevocableness of the thing ▪ ( . ) god swore by his holiness ; what is more sacred ? by which god is seldom known to speak , or to swear ; therefore nothing can more fully confirm this covenant to christ , and to us in him . ( . ) jesus christ then confirmed also the covenant on his part ; on our behalf , by his putting his hand in our stead , and to stand in our law-place for us , as you have heard : this , my brethren , was more than a bare signing and sealing the covenant of peace . but — ii. there is yet a farther ratification , and confirmation of the covenant of peace , as also there is among men. . it was agreed betwixt god the father , and the son as mediator , that this covenant should come under another acceptation , i. e. as the last will and testament of jesus christ : true , it was not only christ's will , or christ's covenant and testament , but the father's will and covenant also : hence the testament is called , the revelation of jesus christ , which god gave unto him ; that is , a mediator : yet christ is the testator , or he that is to dispose of all those rich legacies which the father by him , as mediator , designed to bestow on all his elect , it is called his covenant , testament , or last will. and now , since the new covenant was to come under this character , viz. christ's last will and testament ; there was a necessity ( for many other reasons ) that the covenant should be confirmed and ratified by his death 〈…〉 : the greek word is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 diathemenos , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 berith . a testament is the sentence , or declaration of our last will of what we would have done after our death ; now this testament contains all the blessings , grants , and priviledges agreed unto and given to christ , as mediator of the covenant of peace , and more properly it denotes christ's giving them forth as one dying , to confirm the covenant . . a testator signifies a disposer ; one that makes his last will and testament , who hath goods to bestow , and persons to give them unto . . it denotes , that a dying person , who to confirm his will and testament ; there is a necessity of his death , and thus christ as a testator , died by virtue of those covenant transactions betwixt god the father and himself on the behalf of god's elect ; where a testament is , there must also of necessity be the death of the testator . . it also denotes , that he the testator hath , or is invested with some estate , and hath a proper right to dispose of it ; jesus christ in this covenant had all the riches of grace and glory given to him as mediator . see john . . jesus knowing that the father had given all things into his hands , &c. . moreover it denotes , that whatsoever he gives as a testator , is of meer grace , or of the good pleasure of his will. . also it gives a just right to all such ( to whom he bequeaths any legacies ) to what is given , so that such may sue out for them as their own . furthermore it imports the revelation and declaration of his will , love , and affections to all his relations and friends : so did jesus christ , in his last will and testament , reveal his will , love , and rich bounty to all god'● elect. now the design of god and christ herein , was . . to give , or superadd a new title to al● believers ( as one well observes ) of all covenant blessings , that we might have all manne● of security imaginable to the inheritance . . also to shew the absolute freeness of th● conveyance of all covenant grants , and ble●sings to believers . . and more directly to the purpose i● hand , jesus christ came under this relation to ratifie and confirm the covenant of peace , an● our sure right and title to all blessings contained therein ; tho it be but a man's testament , yet if it be confirmed , no man disanulleth , or addeth thereunto : the covenant was in force even from the beginning ; and all god's elect who lived under the old testament dispensation , received the grace and blessings thereof , through faith in christ's death , who they knew would come in the fulness of time , and by his blood confirm this covenant : the father , indeed , trusted the son upon his holy compact or covenant with him , upon the account of what he was to do , and suffer in time . pray , brethren , observe , that the death of christ , is the great and sure ratification and confirmation of the covenant of peace . it is a confirmation of such validity , that it is made unalterable , and cannot be disannulled . to proceed , there are , beloved , seven or eight things to be considered in the death of christ. i. the death of christ put an end to , or abrogated the old covenant ; he took away the first , that he might establish the second — having abolished in his flesh the enmity , even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself of twain , one new man , so making peace : the first will , or covenant is made void by the second , i. e. by the last will and testament ; nor is the ceremonial law only abolished , but the moral law as a covenant of works , do this and live ; not as it is a law requiring perfect obedience on righteousness , but as to the tenure , or terms of it . not , my brethren , but that all believers , who lived under the old testament , were saved by the covenant of grace , christ was to establish , as i said before : yet was not the old covenant actually taken away till christ died , the latter covenant is called an everlasting covenant ; not , i say again , that the first , as to righteousness , is ceased , or disannulled ; no , but as a covenant of works , requiring perfect righteousness of us in our own persons , if ever we are justified in god's sight ; but that the perfect obedience which law required of us is transmitted to another head , i. e. the christ jesus , who having answered all its demands in point of obedience and righteousness , so that he is the end of the law , as touching righteousness , to every one that believeth : insomuch that the law cannot curse , nor any more condemn them that are in christ jesus . ii. christ's death ( as well as his active obedience to the law ) was the condition on his part for us , upon which god the father entered into this covenant of peace , on our behalf ; therefore had not christ died , all that believed before he came had perished , but neither of these were possible . iii. the death of christ , was the price of our redemption , by this vast summ we were redeemed : ye are not your own , you are bought with a price . not our own observe . . we were sold under sin , and were in bondage to the law and justice of god. . there was a treating about the price of our redemption , and the terms were agreed to , which was , that christ must die ; for asmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things , as silver and gold , &c. but with the precious blood of christ — who verily was fore-ordained before the foundation of the world ; or was delivered up according to the compact , or result in the covenant of peace , ( to redeem us from wrath and hell , ) held in eternity between the father and himself . . the time also when this should be done , was also then agreed on ; that is , when christ should die ; but when the fullness of time came , god sent forth his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh — to redeem them that were under the law , &c. iv. the death of christ was that price by which all grace is purchased for us ; for tho we have all covenant grants , and blessings freely given to us , or merely of god's free grace , yet faith , a new heart , regeneration , repentance , pardon , and peace , and all other grace , and blessings here , and glory hereafter were all purchased for us by the death of christ ; for as you heard christ did more than pay our debts . v. christ's death was the pacifying , or atoneing sacrifice , his precious blood quenched the fire of god's wrath , and so it is the only way by which we come to be delivered from hell : our jonah was cast over-board to make a calm , and caused the storm of divine vengeance to cease . vi. and more directly to our present purpose ; i say again , the death of christ was to ratifie and confirm the covenent . vii . moreover , the death of christ was not only to confirm the covenant of peace it self , but to confirm all covenant grants , covenant blessings , and covenant promises also ; for had not the testator died , none could sue for any legacy therein bequeathed to them . furthermore , also the holy ghost is appointed to be the executioner of this covenant ; or , of the last will and testament of our lord jesus christ : how much more shall the blood of christ , who through the eternal spirit offered himself to god ; purge your consciences from dead works , to serve the true living god. it is the same spirit of jesus that offered up his body , that applies his blood , and makes it efficacious to us , and also puts us into the possession of the inheritance purchased for us . and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament , that by means of death , that they which are called , might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance ; that is , through his intercession , and the agency of the holy spirit , the effects of his sacrifice might become effectual to all the elect , viz. to their justification , vocation , sanctification , and glorification . if the will of man had been left , or substituted to be the executioner of christ's last will and testament , not one soul might have been saved , or if otherwise , yet all the glory would not have then redown'd to jesus christ , but one great part thereof to the creature . but thus it is not left , 't is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth : no , no , it is wholly committed to the blessed agency of the holy ghost ; who doth , and must bow , and bend the will of man unto god : but more of this hereafter . my brethren , it is very remarkable what knowledge some of the ancient jews had of the messiah . rabbi hadars , ( as i find him quoted by a worthy divine ) speaks thus , viz. god treating with the messiah , said , righteous messiah , those who are hid in thee , are such , whose sins in time shall bring thee to grief ; thy ears shall hear reproaches , thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth , thou shalt be wearied with sorrows . the messiah answered ; lord of the world , i joyfully take them upon me , and charge my self with their torment , but upon this condition , that thou shalt quicken the dead ; god , saith this rabbi , granted him this , and from that time the messiah charged himself with all kinds of torments . vse . i. from hence we may infer what horrid evil there is in unbelief , or the shamefulness of unbelief , and o what ignorance there is in men , of this covenant agreement ; god is pacified and reconciled , but sinners will not believe it , and from hence retain frightful thoughts of god. . we infer , that our salvation stands upon a sure and certain foundation , and that the elect shall be saved . ( . ) they are the seed of christ , and are given to him , tho never so unworthy in themselves . ( ) in regard of the firmness of the covenant of peace , you hear how , and by what it is confirmed . ( . ) in regard jesus christ hath done his suffering work , his bleeding work , his dying work , confirming his covenant , and he is bound to do all the rest in us and for us , and the spirit is the executior , christ , tho he died , is alive , and dies no more ; and therefore can , and will see his own will fully executed . ( . ) because god hath link'd in this covenant his own glory and our good together . ii. contemplate on the love of your dying friend ; shall the king immortal become a dying testator ? o search into this will to find your names , and see what vast legacies are bequeathed therein to you ! moreover , you see that your right to grace and glory is a testimentory right , the covenant betwixt god and christ is turned into a testament between him and you ; my peace i leave with you : he hath paid dear for it . iii. sinners , will you by unbelief make void ( if it were possible ) this covenant , or not sue out by christ's blood your pardon , but think to get it some other ways , sirs , all 〈◊〉 saving grace is comprehended in this covenant . iv. what are all earthly legacies to those christ hath left in his last will and testament — v. terror . let all such tremble that turn christ's last will and testament into a law of works , or into a conditional covenant , or that give the glory to their faith , to their obedience , or to the creature , and let all such fear likewise that venture to alter any thing contained in christ's last will and testament . lastly , do not forget your dying friend ; o keep up his remembrance in those holy signs of his death and suffering which he hath left in his word , this do in remembrance of me . i shall now proceed to the next thing proposed under this general head. fourthly , after a covenant of peace is ratified and confirmed , it is proclaimed , and so it is here also ; this is the next thing , god assisting , i shall speak to . — and now , as peace among men is commonly published by a proclamation , so hath god graciously ordered this peace to be published by a proclamation . also , and in speaking to this i shall . shew you what is the proclamation of this peace . . who they are that god hath authorized to proclaim it . . open the nature of the proclamation . . open the terms upon which it is proclaimed . the proclamation of this peace is the gospel of jesus christ : hence the gospel is called , the word of reconciliation , and the gospel of peace . i. because the gospel only shews us how reconciliation is made between an offended god , and offending creatures ; and no otherways is this revealed , or made known to men. ii. because god , my brethren , is hereby declared to be reconciled or pacified towards sinners , even in jesus christ ; to wit , that god was in christ , reconciling the world to himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them . some would have this extend to all the world universally , but then all would be saved ; for if all were reconciled to god by the death of his son , they shall much more be saved by his life ; for so paul argues in respect of all them that god by the death of his son , was reconciled to ; for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son , much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life . if god gave us the great gift , he will much more give the lesser gift , i. e. faith and perseverance ; compare this with rom. . . my brethren , 't is the same [ all , ] or world that christ promised that he would draw to him , and that he takes away the sin of . moreover , if he had reconciled the whole world to god , he would have prayed for the whole world , but that he saith he did not , yet he prayed for all he died for . iii. because the gospel discovers the meritorious cause , or foundation of our reconciliation , viz. the death of christ , this was that sacrifice that turned away god's anger , and vindictive wrath and vengeance ; he saw the travel of his soul and was satisfied . iv. because the gospel contains mutual reconciliation , not only an account of god's reconciliation to us , but also our reconciliation to him , which is through the receiving the atonement , god is reconciled in christ , by his wrath-appeasing sacrifice ; but the gospel shews , that sinners are not actually reconciled to god , until they are by the spirit united to christ , and believe in him , having that natural enmity removed , that is in their hearts against god. v. the gospel is the instrumental means , through the spirits operations of the sinner's reconciliation to god ; we pray you in christ's stead be ye reconciled to god. it is called the power of god to salvation , because therein the righteousness of god is revealed , vers. . it is , my brethren , an instrument of his power , or a powerful means ordained of god to this purpose , it having an excellent and efficacious influence attending it through the spirit where it is proclaimed and received . my brethren , faith , regeneration , convertion , or holiness , do not reconcile us to god ; no , no , nothing doth that but the blood of christ. and this i might make appear , . because our reconciliation on god's part is by the death of christ ; for when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son. hence we are said to be justified by his blood ; that is , meritoriously , yet materially it is by his active , as well as his passive obedience . . because our reconciliation on god's part , i mean his being reconciled to us , is antecedent to faith , regeneration , &c. your faith doth not make your peace , tho it be an instrument by which you receive that atonement that christ hath made , . faith , &c. is an effect of our reconciliation , that we may be actually acquitted , and saved from sin and wrath in our own persons , and have it evidenced to our own consciences ; it is our receiving that of christ , which he received for us upon his discharge , as our head , and surety ; much more being now justified by his blood , we shall be saved through him : therefore christs blood must be the appeasing sacrifice that delivers us from the wrath we lay under . . nay , my brethren , justification is the effects of reconciliation ; for had not christ satisfied divine justice for us , we had not been pronounced just , or righteous in him ; the prisoner is acquited as the effects of the payment of his debts , his believing his debts are paid , and the law and justice satisfied , doth not pay his debts ; tho a sinner is not in his own person actually discharged , until he doth believe , or leastwise in his own conscience . true , jesus christ , as mediator , doth both these ; i. e. he pays our debts , and knocks off our chains ; he makes the atonement , and sprinkles the blood upon our consciences by his spirit ; if reconciliation was the bending of our hearts to god , to believe in him , and love him , why should faith and sanctification be laid down as the end and effect of this reconciliation : yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh , through death , to present you holy and vnreprovable in his sight . vi. a proclamation discovers , or reveals who they are that shall receive the blessings of that peace which is made , and upon what terms . so , my brethren , the gospel makes known who they are that are comprehended in that peace our lord jesus christ had made , viz. all that god hath elected , or chosen in him , or all his seed , or all that the father hath given to him , or , if you please , all that do believe in him ; and also it shews upon what terms , viz. wholly of meer grace and favour ; by grace ye are saved through faith , and that not of your selves , it is the gift of god , not of works , least any man should boast , not by any act of the creature , not by his faith and sincere obedience● nor by works of righteousness that we have done , either in obedience to law or gospel : see rom. . . the terms are without money , and without price . vii . some proclamations proclaim peace ; so , my brethren , the gospel proclaims our peace with god : peace , peace to them that are afar off , and to them that are nigh ; it proclaims liberty to the captives , &c. hence our lord saith to his disciples ; that which ye have spoken in the ear , shall be proclaimed on the house top — and came and preached peace , ( or proclaimed peace ) to you which were afar off , and to them that are nigh . and hence the gospel also comes so to be called ; for what is gospel , but glad tydings , good news , peace on earth , good will to men ! it is called , the joyful sound , blessed is the people that know the joyful sound , &c. not they that only hear it , but that know it , it is that which when known and received , pacifies a wounded conscience . viii . a proclamation of peace and pardon , is that which a self-condemned traytor takes hold of , and presently submits himself with tears , and falls down at his sovereign's feet , being broken to pieces at the thoughts of his prince's clemency , and free pardon . also it gives an assurance to all such of pardon and peace . so , my brethren , the gospel is that which sin-convicted , and self-condemned sinners , and stubborn rebels against god , takes hold of ; and it is this that breaks and melts their hard hearts , what hear that their peace is made , and god reconciled ? nay , and that he has sacrified his own son to this very end , this breaks the heart of stone , and brings the rebel to lay down his arms , and to take hold of pardon . and it gives to each poor sinner also , an assurance of mercy , he brings the proclamation as it were to god , and pleads his pardon , where the word of a king is , there is power : the king's word and promise , ( saith the soul ) is passed in his proclamation , that i shall have free pardon , and here it is . ix . a proclamation is written , nay printed , that it may be read , and known of all men ; so god , in his providence , hath caused his gospel to be printed , that it may be read and known to all to whom it is sent ; it was first written as holy men speak , as they were moved by the holy ghost ; and since it has been printed also . x. a proclamation is set up in the market-place , or in some publick place , so is the gospel publickly made known ; wisdom cryeth without , she uttereth her voice in the streets , in the chief place , in the concourse , in the opening of the gates , in the city she uttereth her voice , see prov. . . it is , and shall be made known to all nations , to their joy and comfort , and for their obedience of faith. — but let me note here some disparities . . proclamations are not put into a book , i say , i think that is not usually done , to be kept for after times upon record , but the gospel , or good news to sinners , or this proclamation , is put into a book , for all succeeding ages , and generations to know and understand . ( . ) this book , brethren , is wholly by inspiration given out to remain as a witness of god's eternal love , and christ's eternal love , and favour . ( . ) there is a blessing pronounced to him that reads , and that understands this book . ( . ) it is a book ratified and confirmed by miracles . ( . ) a book that all holy and good books point to , moses points to this book , the prophets point to this book , and all divine writers point to this book . ( . ) it is a book of all truth , and no errors . ( . ) a book that all good books , holy books were taken out of . ( . ) a book kept and preserved by almighty power , in spight of rome , hell , and devils . but let me add one thing more here , viz. that there were different ways of proclaiming this news of peace , by jesus christ. . it was first proclaimed to adam , upon his fall , by the promise of the seed of the woman . . to abraham it was proclaimed in these words , i. e. in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed . thus paul saith , god preached the gospel to abraham , to jacob by the coming of shilo . to moses , by a prophet that god would raise up of their brethren , like unto him ; and by types and sacrifices . to david , by a promise of a son to sit upon his throne , and by a covenant made with him , as a type of christ. to the prophets many ways very clearly . but in the new testament times more fully and clearer then ever ; before it was hid , as it were , but the vision is now opened , and hidden things , things long kept secret , are plainly revealed ; we behold with open face : many prophets , and kings , desired to see and hear what we see and hear , but saw , and heard them not . . a proclamation doth not usually contain the sum of all the articles of peace , nor give an account of all the gifts , grants , blessings , and priviledges thereof . but this proclamation , i. e. the gospel doth publish and make known to all the world , the summ of all the articles of this covenant of peace ; together with all the great gifts , grants , blessings , and priviledges thereof : in the gospel we read of the council , compact , and eternal purpose of god , concerning of all those covenant transactions that were betwixt the father and the son from eternity , which were hid , or kept secret until this proclamation came forth . . a proclamation of peace doth not particularly give an account of all the horrid crimes and offenders that are by virtue thereof , freely pardoned upon their coming in ; for such a proclamation is rather put out by a prince to reclaim stubborn rebbels , in which their names are inserted ; but this proclamation , i.e. the gospel , proclaims free pardon for all manner of sins , iniquities , and transgressions ; and to all the vilest traitors , enemies and rebbels against the eternal god ; as to all swearers , lyars , drunkards , harlots , whoremongers , or adulterers , idolaters , effeminate persons , abusers of themselves with mankind , proud persons , covetous backsliders , thieves , extortioners , malicious persons , murtherers , back-biters , blasphemers , sorcerers , ye all manner of sinners have free pardon offered to them upon their coming in , and laying hold of jesus christ ; and none are excepted but such who have sinned against the holy ghost . vse . . bless god for the gospel , that ever this proclamation came to your ears , peace is proclaimed to you this day , to you sinners ! what do you say ? do you resolve to throw down your arms and come in ? 't is no matter what kind of rebbels you have been : here 's a pardon for all sins and blasphemy ( in this proclamation ) committed against the father and son , and but one sort of sinners are excluded , and but one sin , i. e. the sin against the holy ghost . is not this good news ? do you believe it ? and is it in your hearts to take hold of the promises of the gospel ? what answer shall i return to him that sent me . ii. this informs us of the necessity of revealed religion , i mean of the gospel ; for without this proclamation had been published , the way of peace could not be known , or without such a way of revelation . . for the moral law written in the two tables , reveals nothing of this peace made by jesus christ. . the law or light within all mankind , reveals nothing of it , tho that convicts of sin , yet it reveals nothing of a saviour . the moral law and light , in all , discovers a god , but no christ , no mediator : what doth the pagan world know of this covenant of peace ? or of this mediator , or of this proclamation ? what will those arch hereticks say to this , who talk of the light within , and boldly affirm , that they should have known by a christ within , as much as they do now , if the word had never been written ; but why then do not the poor indians , and pagans know it , who have the same light in them ? and why can't they tell us , what those other things are that jesus christ did , that are not written ? believe them not : these things are written , that ye might believe that jesus is the christ , and that believing , ye might have life through his name : these hereticks deny not only the christ of god , but the only rule of our faith and practice also . . certainly here is good news to you sinners who hear me this day ; i am appointed by the lord to proclaim peace to you in this place ; and do assure you , in the name of my great lord and master jesus christ , that if you come in , and i. e. believe in him , ye shall have eternal life , tho you have been long enemies to god , ye stout-hearted , and far from righteousness , or tho never so vile and notorious sinners , grace , pardon , and peace is offered freely to you this day , without money , and without price ; i. e. without any previous qualifications , or any thing required of you , 't is all freely tendered , upon your believing ; upon your espousing of jesus christ all the blessings of the covenant of peace are yours . whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely . sermon vi. wherein is shewed who are the ambassadors of peace , or who are appointed to proclaim , or preach the gospel of peace . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . i am upon the second general head , first proposed to be opened , viz. to clear up the main covenant transactions , about the bringing in , and establishment of the covenant of peace . . i have passed through those eight explanatory propositions . . the second i have been some time upon , i. e. the covenant transactions . i. i shewed you there was a treating about it between the father and the son , as our head and representative , before the world began . ii. that the terms of our peace were then by them both agreed on , and that jesus christ was chosen mediator and surety of the covenant iii. that this covenant is confirmed . iv. and that it is proclaimed . here i told you , that i should do four things . . shew you what the proclamation is ; this we did the last day . . shew you who are the ambassadors of peace . . open the nature of the proclamation . shew you upon what terms peace is offered , or proclaimed . to proceed . secondly , my business is to shew you now who they are that god hath appointed , impowered , or authorized to be the ambassadors of his peace . i. the great and chief ambassador of this peace , is the lord jesus christ ; and from hence he is called the messenger of the covenant ; the lord whom ye seek , shall suddenly come to his temple , even the messenger of the covenant . all expositors agree , that this is meant of christ ; yea , ( as one observes ) both christian and jewish interpreters ; and the same author also shews from the hebrew , that a messenger signifies an ambassador , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 messengers , i. e. ambassadors of peace . my brethren , i shewed you , that jesus christ considered as mediator , was our great plenipotentiary , representing us , and treating with god for us , in that council of peace held betwixt them both . . he was authorized and approved of by the father , to treat about it , and conclude the peace upon such terms that the father proposed to him on our behalf ; as thou hast given him power over all flesh , that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him — i was set up from everlasting , &c. . he only was able to make our peace , not only capable to treat about it , but as the grand ambassador , to answer all the just demands of the holy and abused majesty of heaven , in order finally to conclude it . . he was sent from heaven to earth , actually to do this ; and from thence , as i conceive , he bears the name or title of messenger , or ambassador . my brethren , christ as mediator , was sent by the father ; the father that sent me , is with me : god so loved the world , that he sent his only begotten son. . he was the first that published or preached the gospel of peace , which at first began to be spoken by the lord , &c. first , as to the full and clear promulgation of it ; some conceive this may refer to his publishing of it to our first parents after the fall ; yet i rather conclude , it refers to his ministry in his own person , whose doctrine was confirmed with signs and wonders ; the spirit of the lord god is upon me , because the lord hath appointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek . moreover he is called , a minister of the sanctuary , and of the true tabernacle which the lord pitched , and not man : this work refers to his prophetical office. . he only knows the counsel of god , or the whole covenant transactions between the father and himself , and therefore could best reveal them , or make them known to us ; nor can we know or understand the mysteries of god , the mysteries of the covenant , and gospel , but by this interpreter , who is one among a thousand : neither knoweth any man the father , save the son , and he , to whomsoever the son will reveal him . he only is the ambassador that can make the people to hear and understand ; i have given them the words that thou gavest me : he hath the tongue of the learned , he was god's great ambassador whilst he was on earth , to make known the joyful news of peace and reconciliation , purchased by his own blood , and that gives success to his servants whom he employs . . without the exercise of this his office , as a prophet , minister , or ambassador , he could not perfect his work as mediator , for it is hereby he reconciles us to god ; by speaking to our hearts , by enlightening our understandings , bowing our wills , and renovating our souls . moreover , all other ambassadors labour in vain , if he works not , labours not with them . . he hath all the excellent properties of a messenger , or of an ambassador of peace . . a regular call , or authority , this he received from the father . . wisdom , he excels in wisdom and knowledge , he is the wisdom of god , — and in him is hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge ; never man-spake like him . . faithfulness , he was faithful to him that appointed him , as also was moses ; and as faithful to us , witness his death , and also his continual intercession now in heaven . . lowly , and of a condescending spirit ; how did he abase himself to become god's servant , that is his own eternal son ; nay , our servant , he came to serve us , and was as one that served , while here on earth . . active and diligent , it is my meat and drink to do the will of him that sent me . . swift and speedy , how much work did he do in three years and a half ? for swiftness he is compared to an hart , or young roe . but no more as to this . ii. jesus christ hath substituted , ordained , or appointed others under him , for him , and in his stead to be his ambassadors of this peace : quest. who are they ? answ. negatively , they are not the holy angels , tho it is true , the angels brought the good news of his arrival , or first coming into the world , and also proclaimed glory to god on high , on earth peace , good will to men : yet these he hath not appointed to be his ambassadors of peace : no , no , they are men , or gospel-ministers . . yet negatively , they are not all which are called gospel-ministers . . some are legal ministers , preachers of a law , who know not what they say , nor what they affirm , yet not preachers only of moses law , but of a new law , turning the gospel , or free promise of god , and eternal life ( to such that believe in jesus ) into a law of imperfect faith , and sincere obedience , as the matter and condition of justification before god ; and indeed they seem to violate the perfect law of god , as if that was abolished , and a new law , or rule of obedience procured by christ's merits in its room . . not such that only preach good manners , or morality , tho christ's ministers preach this ; yet to preach this , is not to preach christ and peace to lost sinners ; neither is this the great doctrine contained in their mission , but christ only , and him crucified . . not such that are ministers of man's making , that come to their ministry as men come to trades , who perhaps never knew christ themselves , or were ever converted : can such be christ's ministers ? . not such that preach the moral law , as it is written in mens hearts , or that call the light or law that is in all men , the true christ of god ; no , these are deceivers , and satan in them hath transformed himself into an angel of light. . not such that deny the godhead of christ and his atoning sacrifice , or that satisfaction he gave to the law and justice of god. . not such that deny his humanity , or affirm , that he took not flesh of the virgin , being neither true god of his father's substance , nor true and real man of the substance of his mother . ii. affirmatively , they are such that christ hath regenerated , and graciously qualified , by giving them grace and ministeral gifts , and are also authorized by him , to proclaim the covenant of peace . let me open this a little . every ambassador must have a regular mission , or be authorized , or impowered , before he can be imployed in that high place and trust : and so it is here , how shall they preach except they be sent ? that is , duly , or authoritatively , and to the profit of the people . and , . they ought to be converted persons ; and also to be members of some true church or churches of jesus christ , and baptized persons ; for christ himself , till he was baptized , did not enter upon the work of his ministry . . they must pass the probation of that church , with whom they are members , and receive a regular call from them to preach god's word . . moreover , they that are regularly called and authorized , and every ways compleat and orderly ambassadors , must be ordained by prayer and imposition of hands , by the eldership . iii. an ambassador is a person of eminency and honour in his prince's sight , they represent their prince's person ; so is christ's true and faithful minister ; he is one that christ confers great dignity and honour upon , tho many of christ's true ministers have but little honour from men , nor are they accounted honourable ones by the world , but they are notwithstanding , stars in christ's right hand , and are called angels of the churches . yet what saith paul ? you see your calling , brethren , how that not many wise men after the flesh , not many mighty , not many noble are called : but god hath chosen the foolish things , &c. and base things of the world , and things despised : that is , persons of no esteem in the eyes of the world , yet they represent christ's person , which is no small dignity . iv. some ambassadors are ambassadours of peace , to perswade enemies to accept of terms of peace , and to lay down their arms , &c. the ministers of christ are ambassadors of peace , not to reconcile god to men , but men to god ; now then we are ambassadors for christ , as tho god did beseech you by us , we pray you , in christ's stead , be ye reconciled to god. man naturally is in a state of enmity against god ; and this way , through the workings of the holy spirit by the word , they come to be reconciled unto god. v. an ambassador of peace is a joyful messenger , so are the true ministers of jesus christ : how beautiful upon the mountains , are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings , that publisheth peace , that bringeth good tydings of good , that publisheth salvation , &c. . an ambassador is a welcome messenger , if he comes with tidings of peace from a formidable and powerful prince , whose arms are irresistable , or whose force is unconquerable , and hath also been justly incensed , enraged , and stirred up to wrath. my brethren , the consideration of this renders the ambassadors of christ , most joyful and welcome messengers , where they come and proclaim peace , because the great god is an irresistable enemy , who is a match for him ? and he is also justly incensed and stirred up to wrath , by all ungodly persons : god is jealous , and the lord revengeth , the lord revengeth and is furious , the lord will take vengeance on his adversaries , and he reserveth wrath for his enemies — the mountains quake at him , the hills melt , and the earth is burnt at his presence , the world , and all that dwell therein : who can stand before his indignation ? and who can abide the fierceness of his anger ? he is an amazing warriour , he can shake the heavens by his voice , and cause the mountains to tremble before him ; with god is terrible majesty , he is the lord mighty in battel : he causeth the earth to fear , and the inhabitants thereof to melt away , so that the men of might cannot find their hands : he can make emperors as stubble to his bow , and mighty kings as chaff before the whirlwind : he makes beelzebub , with his black guards , to quiver and fly into darkness to hide themselves : he cuts off the spirit of princes , and triumphs over the greatest and proudest monarchs : alexander , pompey , caesar , and tamberlain , have all yielded to this invincible conqueror ; and so shall in a short time the proud and haughty tyrant lewis le grand : if god shows but his finger on the wall , he makes proud belshazzar to quake ; nay , he can employ inanimate creatures to terrifie and destroy pharoah and his mighty hosts . o how joyful then must those tidings be , to hear that such a king , such an enemy is reconciled to us ? . an ambassador of peace , is welcome to a people who lie under heavy burdens , or are in fearful bondage , slavery , and misery , and have no power to save , or relieve themselves ; for such , i say , to hear of liberty , or of a proclamation of peace declaring their freedom , and that for ever , who had once been a free people , but lost it ; this renders such an ambassador welcome indeed ! now this is the state of all mankind : what slaves ? what vassals of sin and satan are all ungodly mortals ? their eyes put out , their robes rent from them , their souls wounded , and nothing but loathsome sores from the crown of their head , to the sole of their feet ; and fed with nothing but ashes , chaff , husks , and gravel stones , and laid under the sentence of death , being cursed by god , or by his holy law , and condemned to be burnt alive , or to lie in everlasting flames ever dying , and yet can never die . o! how welcome is the news an ambassador of christ brings to such a people , who see this is their state , and yet are by him delivered ! . an ambassador of peace is welcome , if he comes to offer peace from a prince that is faithful , and true to his word and covenant ; and one that can give good security as to what he agrees to , or covenants to perform . now the ministers , or ambassadors of christ , come from the faithful god of heaven and earth , who never did , nor can fail in his covenant nor promises , to any person , or people ; he is faithful , and cannot deny , i. e. he can as soon cease to be god , as cease to be true and faithful : hence all covenant-blessings come to be so firm and sure ; in hope of eternal life , which god that cannot lie , promised before the world began : besides , he hath given good security , even his own oath , he hath sworn to his covenant by his holiness , &c. . an ambassador is welcome , if he comes to offer peace on easie terms . — now the terms upon which god offers peace , you have heard , are very easie ; true , on his part , our peace was made on hard terms , it was by the blood of his own son : had he said you shall have peace upon a sacrifice of a thousand rams , or ten thousand rivers of oyl , that might seem hard ; or if you would offer your first-born in sacrifice , or run your knife into his throat , and let out his hearts blood , you would think those hard terms ; but it is not your first-born , but his first-born , whose blood must be let out to make your peace ; you are but to look to him , trust in christ : hear and your souls shall live . what tho faith will launch the plague sore , and let out all the filth and corruptions of your polluted hearts ; will a man think that is a cure on too hard terms ? sirs , the spirit will cause you to vomit up that poyson that you have taken down ; but is that too hard to save the life of your immortal souls ? is it hard to tell a man he must give up the traytor he has harboured in his house ? if he would have the king's pardon , or possess that peace purchased by the blood of his own dear son. vi. that love and respect people shew to an ambassador , a prince looks upon , as shewed to himself , because the ambassador represents his person , and that contempt which is shewed to his ambassador , he takes as cast on himself . so jesus christ takes the honour , love , and respect which is shewed to his faithful ministers , as if it was shewed to him , and the same dishonour done to them , as if it was done to himself ; he that heareth you , heareth me ; and he that despiseth you despiseth me . vii . an ambassador is to do his uttermost , in order to accomplish his ambassy , and to bring the king's enemies to accept of peace . so are christ's ministers , they are to pray , to intreat , to beseech sinners to be reconciled to god ; we pray you in christ's stead , &c. paul besought them with tears , faithful ministers are willing to spend their lives to win souls to christ , yea , to die upon the spot to save one poor sinner ; knowing the terror of the lord , we perswade men. our great master thought not his blood too dear to make our peace , and shall ministers think their strength , their lives , their blood too much , that so they might see the travel of christ's soul ; i mean , sinners reconciled unto god , or christ's blood by faith sprinkled on their hearts : many like the minister's dignity , but few like their work and duty . my brethren , it is a great trust that is committed to them . . the charge of the souls of men that are more worth than all the world , is committed to them . . the wonderful worth of gospel verities , truth is a rich treasure ; we have this treasure in earthen vessels , this is committed to them . . 't is the ambassy of that peace which was made by the blood of the son of god , that is committed to them . . the charge of the church of god , which he hath purchased with his own blood , is committed to them . viii . an ambassador is to keep close or exactly to his instructions , or to the words of his commission , not to add to it , alter it , or diminish from it , on pain of incurring his prince's highest displeasure ; so must christ's ambassadors keep close to their commission ; add thou not to his word , least he reprove thee , and thou art found a lyar ; they must deliver their whole message : there is a curse pronounced to him that adds or diminisheth . . they must in all things exalt jesus christ , or seek the honour alone of their blessed sovereign : the whole of their work is to magnifie christ , exalt christ ; to preach christ the lord , and themselves but servants for jesus sake . not magnifie the creature , nor set the crown on the head of the will of man ; but throw the creature down at christ's feet , and to teach all men , to account all things done by them , or in them , in comparison of christ , but dung , or dogs meat , for thus did paul. . they are to preach nothing to be christ's ordinance , but what he hath instituted , or positively appointed in the new testament , or word of god , they must look into their commission , matt. . , , . ix . an ambassador , if his soveraign sees he cannot succed in his work , or that rebels will not have peace , nor lay down their arms , whilst the white flag of mercy is put out ; he orders him to proclaim war , and puts forth the bloody flag ; and nothing but war , slaughter , and utter ruine follows : so when christ sees that his ministers cannot prevail with rebellious sinners , but that they remain obstinate and obdurant , rejecting peace upon the terms of this covenant , or will not believe to be saved , but seek their peace some other way , or continue in their sins and unbelief ; he orders them to shake off the dust of their feet as a witness against them , and so to proclaim war , and such will fall into the hands of divine wrath and vengeance , and christ will at the last day say , bring out those mine enemies , who would not that i should reign over them , and slay them before my face . and hence wrath came on the jews to the uttermost : and saith paul , lo , we leave you , and turn to the gentiles . x. when an ambassador is called home , it is a sign the patience of his prince is worn out , and that he will wait on his enemies no longer . what may'st thou then think , o london ! tremble , tremble ! for how many faithful ambassadors in thee , hath god called home very lately ? thy day of grace , thou mayest fear , draws to an end . xi . an ambassador must give an account of his ambassage to his prince . so christ likewise will call all his ministers to give an account to him , how they have succeeded in their work ; they must all appear before the judgment-seat of christ ; and happy will such be , who have been faithful in all things unto him , and have won many souls to the lord jesus christ , and have their accounts to give with joy. my brethren , there are one or two disparities concerning the work of other ambassadors , and the ambassadors of christ. . other ambassadors are impowered , to make peace betwixt states and kingdoms , or betwixt one prince and another that are at variance , they are not imployed only to proclaim peace , but to make peace ; but this christ's ambassadors are not impowered to do , for no men , nor angels could make peace betwixt god and man ; all the wisdom and power of men and angels failed here ; should the angels have combined together to have given up all their riches , treasures , and their very beings to god's justice , they could not have made up that breach ; or should all the kings and emperors of the world have agreed to part with all their treasures , kingdoms , and crowns , but to have redeemed one sinner from wrath and divine vengeance ; nay , to pay off the debts but of the least sinner in the world , it would have been contemned by the holy and just god. or , should all the saints that ever lived , have offered up all their graces , gifts , righteousnesses , &c. to have satisfied for the smalest debt any sinner owed to god , it would have signified nothing . alas , all that angels have , men have , or the saints have , is none of their own , they owe all they have , and are , to god ; therefore can spare nothing of it for others to satisfie god's justice : there was none could make our peace but jesus christ ; and christ's ministers are therefore to proclaim that peace which is already made , and endeavour to perswade sinners to accept of it on those terms offered to them , that they may be reconciled to god. . princes do not meet together to make peace in their own persons , but send their ambassadors ( who are men of less dignity than themselves ) to do it , though they receive their instructions from their masters ; but god and jesus christ treated about our peace in their own persons , and christ , as mediator , made this peace for us ( who as god , is equal with god the father ) as well as he is he chief and grand ambassador , to declare or proclaim it . application . . this informs us what a high value we should have of the gospel , since it brings such blessed news and tidings to our ears : o! how do poor people that have suffered by a long and desolating war , who have been ruined thereby , rejoyce to hear peace proclaimed ; they know not how to express their joy , and yet know not how long it may be before war may break out again ; but here is peace proclaimed , peace with god , soul-peace ; everlasting peace , peace that shall never be broken with such who are actually brought into the bonds of this covenant ; the covenant of my peace shall not be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee : therefore here is infinite cause of joy and gladness , this is the sounding the great jubilee ; all bond-men now have liberty proclaimed , and they shall all be set free that take hold of the covenant ; the great jubilee was proclaimed and celebrated with musick , triumph , and all expressions of joy. now what was that a type of , but of the proclamation of peace in the gospel ? hence the gospel it is called , the joyful sound : is not here cause of joy ? where are your hearts ? do they not ( as it were ) leap in you with ravishing joy ? . this informs us also of the great and absolute necessity of preaching the gospel , because this way only is peace made known to us , and also how it came to be made . . this likewise informs us of that great dignity god hath conferred upon his faithful ministers , they represent the person of jesus christ : o what greater honour than this can be conferr'd on men ? . moreover , this title should procure an high and honourable esteem of ministers , ( pastors are called angels of the churches ) especially such whom they have been instruments to bring to accept of peace , should highly value them . besides , this is also necessary in respect of the good success of their ambassage ; tho it is true , people are too subject to make misconstructions what a minister may speak upon this account ; as if he herein rather sought his own honour ( than in magnifying his office to befriend the gospel , and to advance the honour of his great master jesus christ ) and therefore perhaps he is under a temptation to forbear . men , for want of charity , being so ready to interpret it as a fruit of a minister's pride , and of that ambition or affection they have of some outward grandure , and worldly pomp , which they design to gain by such a magnificent title : the apostle himself was sensible of this , but yet would not desist ( tho they might count it his folly ) he doth magnifie his office , cor. . . let men so account of us as ministers of christ , and stewards of god ; and that they judge nothing before the time . . it also may inform us what need there is , that churches take care to choose such to be pastors , that are sober , grave , and humble men , and not novices , young and unexperienced persons , least being lifted up with pride , they fall into the condemnation of the devil ; who fell by his pride , and is ready to tempt others to fall by the same sin. . and o! with what trembling should this work be undertaken , 't is a mighty trust , and woe to them that seek themselves , and not the honour of god and jesus christ herein . object . but some may perhaps say , if christ will have ambassadors to treat with sinners , why doth he not use the holy angels , or choose them to this high office. answ. it is not his pleasure so to do ; the apostle gives one reason for it ; we have this treasure in earthen vessels . wherefore ? that the excellency of the power might be of god , and not of us . and hence , he has not chosen many wise and noble among men , that no flesh should glory in his presence ; i. e. christ's ambassadors , or ministers , being men , they have the advantage many ways above angels . ( . ) they are concerned themselves in the message they bring , which the angels are not : what greater argument to press a man to care and faithfulness , than when his own interest is concerned in the matter . ( . ) men have a more deep sense arising in their own hearts upon the account of the temptations they themselves are subject to . ( . ) because the sufferings and troubles that ministers often meet with for christ and the gospel sake , are great advantages to their brethren , and others to whom they preach ; had the holy angels been the ambassadors of this peace , they could not have been exposed to those trials , and reproaches , nor have sealed to the truth of their doctrine with their blood , they cannot die . ( . ) because the presence of an angel might terrifie us , their glory is so great ; or , may be it might create doubts in us , whether it be a good angel , or not . . this also shews , that ministers have received a special commission how and what to preach , and what ordinance to administer ; and also that they have a regular call to this office ; how shall they preach , except they be sent ? ly . exhortation . sinners be ye exhorted , and fully perswaded to hearken to christ's amsadors , and carefully to receive their message . . to accept of terms of peace by closing with christ , by believing in him . . to consider the time allowed you , is this present time ; behold now is the accepted time , behold now is the day of salvation . . to consider the danger of rejecting , neglecting , or refusing peace and salvation by jesus christ : how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation ? know , o sinners , that ministers set life and death before you ; hear , and your souls shall live ; but he that believeth not , shall be damned . he that believeth hath everlasting life , but he that believeth not , shall not see life , but the wrath of god abideth on him . what do you say , sinners ? will you strive to take hold of jesus christ ? believe in him , cry to him for faith , resolve to lay down your arms : what answer shall i return to my great master ? do not make a pause , but speedily come to a resolution , your lives are uncertain . lastly , this severely reproves all that cast affronts or contempt through pride , envy , or prejudice upon any one of christ's ambasdors , or that abase , deride , or raise up evil reports on him , christ takes it all as done to himself ; also it reproves such , who account them as their brethren , and shew them no more respect than to others , may be not so much , but slight and despise them , and hardly speak friendly to them ; not considering the place and office they are in . but no more at this time . sermon vii . shewing the nature of the proclamation of the gospel , and the terms thereof . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. we shewed you that this peace is proclaimed . . what the proclamation is ? . who the ambassadors are that christ hath appointed to proclaim it . i shall now proceed to the next thing under this head. . i shall open the nature of this proclamation . and then , . shew you the terms upon which peace is offered . would you know what is contained in this proclamation ? first , then know it contains a clear and full declaration of all those covenant transactions between the father and the son , about the restoration of lost sinners before the world began ; the gospel reveals those mysteries that were hid from ages and generations : it is called , the revelation of the mysteries which were kept secret since the world began : not only that mystery that the gentiles should be fellow heirs of the inheritance , but the mystery of the covenant , purpose , and design of god ; and also of the incarnation , life , death , resurrection , ascention , and intercession of jesus christ. i say , it contains the revelation of the mystery of these things , and not only the history of them . i. it reveals that infinite love , mercy , grace , and goodness of god 〈◊〉 to lost and undone sinners , which astonisheth the very angels of god to behold ; to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery , which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in god , who created all things by jesus christ : to the intent , that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places , might be known by the church , the manifold wisdom of god. the good angels are not teachers of these mysteries , but learners and admirers of them ; the gospel is to them as a mirror , or looking-glass , to behold and contemplate the divine wisdom of god in every appearance of it , but especially in this the last and great revelation thereof . ii. it reveals the great love of god the father . in this was manifested the love of god towards us , because that god sent his only begotten son , that we might live through him : that he might die to raise us to life ; to be crown'd with thorns , that we might be crown'd with glory ; to be made a curse for us , that we might be made the blessing of god in him ; there could be no higher demonstration of god's love than this is . iii. it reveals the love of christ , which hath a breadth , a length , a depth , and a heighth in it , and passeth knowledge ; is it not an amazing declaration , or revelation of the infinite love of jesus christ our lord ? who tho he was god , should condescend to die for such vile rebels , and wretched sinners as we were ; hereby perceive we the love of god , because he laid down his life for us , from that near and intimate union between the divine and humane nature in the person of christ : christ's life is here called the life of god , as elsewhere his blood is called the blood of god. god is said to purchase the church with his own blood. iv. this proclamation is a declaration , or a revelation that god in christ is reconciled to his elect ; that is , the price is paid , tho the blood may not be yet sprinkled : when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god by the death of his son : through the blood of his cross , god is satisfied , and his wrath is appeased , that the atonement is madefully , perfectly and for ever ; by one sacrifice he hath perfected for ever them that we sanctified . v. it doth not only declare , but also proclaim this peace , and reconciliation ; deliverance is proclaimed to the captives ; the lord hath anointed me to preach good tydings to the meek , he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted , to proclaim liberty to the captives , and the opening the prison to them that are bound — to proclaim the acceptable year of the lord , &c. or the year of the great jubilee : the sinner is told , his debts are paid , requiring him to believe this ; nay , proclamation is made of free pardon , to all that believe , that they shall not perish , but have everlasting life ; and that god hath received the uttermost farthing of our vast debt , and that christ hath received a discharge , as our surety for all the elect ; and that he hath not done what he did in part , or by halfs , but that it is fully , wholly , and compleatly done , and that for ever ; our faith adding nothing to that satisfaction : the gospel doth not proclaim a conditional peace , or reconciliation , or that god is only reconcilable ; so that if the sinner performs his part , god will be fully reconciled ; that is , if the sinner repents , believes is regenerated , or answers the rule of the promise , as some speak . i know no such conditional gospel , or proclamation ; but those conditions which jesus christ was to perform , which was not only to reconcile god to us , but us also to god : can that be the condition of life on our part which christ hath engaged in the covenant to do ? viz. to bring us into a state of peace ; them i must bring — nay , god hath promised to give us a new heart , and put a new spirit into us . moreover , christ is exalted to be a prince , and a saviour , to give repentance to israel , and remission of sins . my brethren , observe , that the salvation 〈◊〉 by christ was antecedent to our faith , and both were to be performed for us by our surety ; that is , he was as much obliged to give us faith , or by his spirit to apply his blood , as to pour it forth upon the cross for us ; tho he has ordained the preaching of the gospel as an instrument in and by the spirit , to work it in our souls . secondly , this proclamation , it is an universal proclamation . . peace and glad tidings is to be preached or proclaimed to all the world ; go ye therefore into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature . what is this gospel ? why peace by jesus christ , or that god is reconciled , his justice satisfied , and his wrath appeased by the sacrifice and obedience of his son , that being the meritorious , or procuring cause thereof , and christ requires them , commandeth them to believe this ? believe what ? why that god in christ , through his death , was reconciled to us when we were ungodly ; not that god will be reconciled , and appeased , if we repent , believe , are regenerated , and baptized , &c. that which remains to be done , ( which he will also begin and perform for all the elect ) is the sinners believing what jesus christ hath done ; 't is to receive the atonement , or to stretch out the hand of faith ; to receive the pardon procured by christ's blood ; not that any sinner can believe , until the spirit as a vital agent , infuses grace into him ; the seed must be sown before the fruit can appear : christ gives the sinner grace that he may be reconciled unto god , as god in him is reconciled : see paul's word , and all things are of god , who hath reconciled us unto himself by jesus christ , and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation , vers . . to wit , that god was in christ , reconciling the world to himself ; not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed to us the word of reconciliation , vers . . now then we are ambassadors for christ , as tho god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christ's stead be ye reconciled unto god : god , by the blood of his son , was reconciled to us , ( that being the meritorious price , or atoning sacrifice ) and by the spirit his blood is actually applied and made effectual , or efficacious unto us , to our reconciliation to god ; we pray you be ye reconciled , &c. that is , we pray you to receive the atonement christ hath made , or believe the record god hath given of his son ; i. e. believe there is life in him , that god is satisfied in him , and reconciled in him : if this , my brethren , be not the nature of the gospel , or of this blessed proclamation , i profess , i know not what it is . ii. and as peace is universally to be proclaimed to all nations , or in all parts of the world , whither god , by his providence , is pleased to send the gospel . so also , in respect to all sorts of sins , and sinners , i. e. pardon is proclaimed of all kind of sins , and free forgiveness and peace in christ , is offered to all manner of sinners , rebels , and traitors to god , whatsoever they are , not one sin excepted , save only , the sin against the holy ghost ; in some proclamations , or acts of indemnity , many crimes are excepted , as murther , high-treason , fellony , and the like , but it is not so here ; for whosoever they are , tho never such horrid blasphemers , haters of god , traytors to him , and rebels against him , if they come in , and accept of peace , and lay hold of the king's grace , humbly believing in jesus christ , or throwing themselves at his feet , all their treasons , murthers , fellonies , blasphemy , adultery , drunkenness , swearing , idolatry , heresie , sodomy , incest , buggery , covetousness , lying , thieving , back-biting , cheating , backsliding , or whatever else they have done , all shall be forgiven , forgotten , and passed by for ever , as i told you before ; yea , tho they have done all the evil things as they could , will he reserve his anger for ever , will he keep it to the end ; behold thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest : tho this people had committed adultery , idolatry , and had rejected the true god , and worshipped idols , and dealt most treacherously with the god of heaven and earth ; yet see what the lord says ; go and proclaim these words towards the north , and say , return thou backsliding israel , saith the lord : that is , believe , plead your pardon in and by the blood of my son , and i will not cause mine anger to fall upon you , for i am merciful , saith the lord , and i will not keep anger for ever : god out of christ , is a consuming fire , but in him a reconciled god ; only acknowledge thine iniquity . what proclamation can be more free , or universal than this is ? object . if christ is to be offered to all , or peace proclaimed unto all , is there then not vniversal redemption purchased by him ? answ. redemption is a word that denotes persons were in slavery , or bondage , for whom a price is paid , and they therefore are set at liberty : suppose ten men were slaves in algier , and a thousand pound was paid down to redeem them all , and yet but four were actually redeemed , is it true to say all the ten were redeemed ? so here , is it true to say , that the redemption by christ is universal , when the greatest part of the world were never redeemed , but remain under the power of sin and satan ? that redemption which is by jesus christ , is from sin , from the guilt , power , and punishment thereof : and are all men in the world thus redeemed ? 't is not a redemption only from the curse of the law , and wrath of god , but also fom all iniquity ; who gave himself for us , that he might redeem us from all iniquity , and purifie unto himself a peculiar people , zealous of good works : and are all thus redeemed ? . if christ laid down his life to redeem every man and woman in the world , hath he his whole purchase ? a man would think himself cheated , or strangely deceived , that laid down a thousand pounds to redeem ten men , when he finds there are not above three or four indeed actually redeemed ; this renders christ's blood spilt in vain for the greatest part for whom it was shed , or whom he intended to redeem thereby , and so he is deceived , or disappointed . . there can be no universal redemption , unless christ were a universal redeemer , but christ is not a universal redeemer , millions of souls are left under the power of sin , and dominion of satan . . will a man lay down ten thousand pounds , to purchase such or such an estate , and will he refuse to part with ten pounds to take up that estate to make it sure to himself ? brethren , the gift of christ for us , i. e. his laying down his life is far the greater gift ; and will he do this , and not give the gospel to many nations , nor faith to believe and receive him , and yet died for them all ? see how paul argues , rom. . . chap. . . . or would jesus christ die for the whole world , and yet refuse to pray for them , that they may all be saved ? see joh. . . the reprobate world he prayed not for ; yet he prayed for all that should be saved : neither pray i for these alone , but for them also which shall believe on me through their words ; that world , christ is a propitiation for their sins ; or had made their peace with god , for he died for — even that world which he takes away the sins of , he died for , and that all which he draws to himself by his spirit , he died for on the cross , he taketh away the sin of the world by bearing it himself , or by satisfying for the sins thereof ; he was made sin for us , that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him : he made a plenary satisfaction to the justice of god , for the sins of this whole world , and obtained plenary remission and grace by his blood , that we might be redeemed from a vain conversation : the elect , before calling , are as much the world as any others ; yea , and the best part of it too . moreover , by a metonomy [ all ] is put for a part , frequently in the scripture . god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son ; that is , god so loved sinful mankind , both jews and gentiles , that whosoever believeth on him might not perish , but have everlasting life . object . we do not plead for an absolute vniversal redemption , but for a conditional one ; that is , so that if all repent , act faith , are regenerated , obey christ , and are holy and continue so to the end , they shall be saved . answ. is this gospel ? doth the proclamation of peace run thus ? . i argue then that christ is but a conditional redeemer , and hath only made a conditional peace ; i. e. he made our peace , and paid our debts upon this condition , viz. that we repent , change our own hearts , or are regenerated , and get faith , and sincere obedience , and continue holy and obedient to the end . . moreover , this notion of a conditional peace , and redemption , renders our salvation not to be of god's free grace alone , through that redemption that is in jesus christ , but that we procure our peace , or make it with god our selves , with our own money , i. e. by our repentance , faith , holiness , and final perseverance ; and that christ only merited or purchased this grant , that our money , i. e. our faith , obedience , &c. should go for good coin in heaven , and procure our justification , peace , and eternal life for us — and thus the glory that we are saved would not belong to god and jesus christ alone ; true , that we might be saved , we may thank god and christ ; god , by the death of his son , is made reconcilable , but that we are saved , we may thank our selves , christ doing no more for us that are saved , than he did for them that perish — but only we had more wit and care than they had ; i. e. for by improving our common grace , god was obliged to give us his special grace . . after this notion christ might be , or might not be a redeemer at all ; our peace might , or might not be made with god , because it wholly dependeth upon the will of man , man's will determines the issue of the whole matter , not that christ undertook to how our wills , or reconcile us to god ; no , but that we our selves must answer the condition of repentance , faith , obedience , &c. or else all that christ hath done is lost , and comes to nothing ; and why might not all refuse to do this as well as some , who never will believe , &c. christ shall be a redeemer , and make our peace if we please ; this puts a bar to the purchaser ( as one observes ) a man can't in any good sense be called a redeemer of such persons out of slavery , till the persons perform those conditions , upon which he laid down the price : as for example , ( saith he ) i lay down an hundred pounds for the redemption of a person in slavery , upon this condition , that he yield to serve me seven years after ; i must have his consent before i can redeem him ; and therefore upon these conditions i am certainly suspended from being a redeemer ; nay , and am no redeemer of such persons , if they refuse the terms : so that for christ to be an universal redeemer , is a contradiction ; for it is to be a redeemer of all , if they please , but can be a redeemer of none but of such that consented to the terms proposed . . besides , this casteth horrid reproach upon the son of god , as if he had done some great thing for us , in dying and making our peace ; when indeed , according to this notion , he doth but deceive poor creatures ; for he has made their peace and redeemed them if they will but get out of satan's hands , and break his chains and bonds in pieces , and raise themselves from the dead , and change their own hearts , &c. whereas he knew we were no more able to do this , than to create a new world. therefore , brethren , pray observe ; we affirm , that whatsoever conditions were agreed upon in the covenant of peace , our lord jesus christ undertook to do and perform them all , both for us , and also in us ; i will give them a new heart , i will take away the stony heart , and i will give them a heart of flesh , i will put my fear into their hearts , and they shall not depart from me . i will circumcise their hearts to love the lord their god — he that hath begun a good work in you , will perform it to the day of christ , who were born not of flesh , nor of blood , nor of the will of man , but of god. to believe is our duty , but 't is christ that gives us grace and power so to do ; and this grace was also purchased for us by his blood ; he is exalted at god's right hand to be a prince and a saviour , to give repentance , &c. and faith also is the gift of god , eph. . . . moreover , who can believe that christ would shed his blood for such whom he knew would never answer those conditions which these men speak of ? besides , they being conditions out of their power to perform . . moreover i might argue thus , i. e. if christ died for all , he intended to save all , but he never intended to save all , therefore he died not for all : who shall frustrate his purpose , or intention ? . that purchase of peace and remission of sins that leaves many man under a certainty to be damned , is not to be esteemed a redemption at all . . moreover , christ's death and resurrection shall have its full and proper effects , for whom , or in whose stead he died : see joh. . , . . if there be the same eternal and unchangeable cause of the price of the redemption , as of the application to the same persons , then whosoever his blood was shed for , shall have the vertue thereof applied to them ; whatsoever is not efficient is not sufficient to attain the end thereof : see a late treatise . object . if this be so , why is the proclamation so vniversal ? answ. because no sort of sins , nor sinners by name , are excepted , or exempted : who can say , he was not included in this covenant of peace to whom the gospel comes ? . because ministers know not but that every one to whom they preach , may be comprehended in this covenant , or in the election of grace . . because if any sort of sinners were excepted , unless god should discover them by name , who were included , multitudes might utterly despair . . the proclamation doth not run to all otherwise than thus , viz. he that believeth , he that comes to christ , &c. or that believes the record god hath given of his son , or that receives the atonement , or believes the testimony of the gospel : see mark . . joh. . . this brings me to the next thing . fourthly , what are the terms upon which peace is offered and proclaimed ? the terms on which peace is proclaimed , run thus , viz. . that whosoever it is that believeth , shall be saved : true , if faith was not the gift of god , but the condition agreed on , as required of the creature by his own power to act and exercise , it would not only be hard , but impossible , because faith must be wrought in our hearts by the same power that raised christ from the dead ; but he that calls dead lazarus to rise from the dead , is able to quicken , and by his commanding voice , to raise the soul , dead in sins and trespasses : the gospel in the hand of the spirit is a mighty instrument of christ's power in the begetting or working of faith in poor sinners . . the proclamation runs to him that thirsteth : oh , every one that thirsteth come to the waters , &c. jesus stood up and cryed , if any man thirst , let him come to me and drink : this thirsting may refer to thirsting after happiness , desiring to be saved ; yet others think it is a thirst begotten in the soul by the spirit ; from the sight and sense of the excellencies that siners see in christ , and the necessity of him , they desire and thirst after him , faith draws vertue from christ , but the branch cannot draw sap from the root , until it is grafted into the stock ; faith is the fruit of the spirit , therefore the seed must be first sown in our hearts : and this originally proceeds from our foederal union with christ , in the covenant of peace . and secondly , by our mystical union with him by the spirit ; for it is hereby faith is wrought ; can any thing but evil fruit grow out of a wild and evil stock , and root ? all works before grace , are dead works , and profit us not . . the terms are to look to christ ; look to me and be saved , all ye ends of the earth : this is all one with believing ; the israelites that were stung with fiery serpents , were to look to the brazen serpent ; so christ is lifted up , that whosoever looketh to him , or that believeth on him , should not perish , but have everlasting life . . 't is made to all them that come to christ ; come to me all ye that labour , and are heavy laden , &c. all that the father hath given me , shall come unto me ; and he that cometh to me , i will in no wise cast out . . it runs to every one that hears , but it is to such that hear christ's voice ; hear , and your souls shall live : the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god. it is also to every one that will , and whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely . whosoever god hath inclined their will , or made willing to accept of peace by jesus christ : if any soul believes in christ , thirsteth for christ , looketh to christ , or cometh to christ , and yet christ rejecteth him , then charge him with injustice : but where lives that man , tho he was never so vile and ungodly that did thus , but he found mercy ? o see how free and universal the proclamation is ! object . 't is not so free , but vnbelief puts in a bar. answ. a sinful state is no bar to the power of god ; for what tho some believe not , shall their vnbelief make the faith of god of none effect ? god forbid . object . but men must be humbled first , before they come , and they must renounce their idols , &c. answ. grace only humbles ; they shall look to me , whom they pierced , and shall mourn : but god first pours upon them the spirit of grace , before they can thus look , or mourn : see zech. . . all previous qualifications before grace , are abominable to god , because the state of the soul is such ; and all such things that proceed not from faith , god abhorreth ; 't is but a working for life , and not from life ; is the improvement of common grace , the foederal-condition of geting special ? no surely . application . infer . from hence we may infer , that in the covenant of peace , the promises of god are absolute ; and that this absoluteness implies , that all the conditions that are required on the creature 's part , grace is promised to them to perform them on god's part , who works in us to will and to do of his own good pleasure . . this proclamation is not so universal , but that it wholly dependeth upon god's sovereign pleasure , who shall reap the benefit of it : 't is sent to one nation , and not to another ; god is not obliged to send it to all kingdoms and nations , nor to all in that nation whither he is pleased to send it ; but if christ died for all , i mean in the stead of all . to satisfie divine justice for every individual person , then he would be unjust in not sending the gospel to them all — but he must call all , and be sure he would give all the lesser gifts , as well as the greater , viz. the gospel and faith , &c. to all , as well as his son to die for them all , and not let them perish in their sins and unbelief , for whom christ died ; for without faith all adult persons must perish ; and how shall they believe on him whom they have not heard ? and how shall they hear without a preacher ? . this proclamation offers free pardon of all sins , both past , present , and to come , to all that believe in jesus christ : and therefore a final deliverance from the curse of the law , and the wrath of god , rom. . . . free justification by christ alone , is therein offered also . . with a supply of all grace to the end , to all them that are in jesus christ , phil. . . . it proclaims god to be our father , and we his sons and daughters , upon receiving jesus christ. . moreover , where any elect sinners are , or dwell , thither the proclamation shall , and must go , to bring them all into the bonds of the covenant . . and also whosoever receive this wellcome news , shall be saved from hell , and be crowned with glory in heaven for ever and ever . . o bless god for the gospel ! for the news of peace , and you sinners see that you attend upon the preaching of the word of reconciliation , for this way he has ordained to work faith in you : o! cry to him to pour out his spirit and help you to believe ; never rest till you have got a heart , a will to take of the water of life . . terror . but tremble you that reject these tidings , this grace , for such that finally do so , shall never have a share of that peace christ hath made by his blood , for on such the wrath of god abides , and will for ever . — moreover , he will also make it appear , that man's destruction is of themselves , tho their help is only in him . dread , least god gives you up to blindness of mind , and hardness of heart ; nay , leave you also to temporal plagues and judgments , as he dealt by the jews of old . . comfort . moreover , here is comfort to believers who have heard , and do know the joyful sound . . they have interest in this peace , and have a title to heaven by christ's righteousness alone . . it is also a sign they were beloved from everlasting , because drawn to christ , or were elected before time , because called in time ; therefore let all such praise the holy god. to whom be glory now and for ever , amen . sermon viii . shewing when the covenant did commence ; also the nature of the covenant opened . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. the next thing under the general head i am upon , i shall as it were but mention , which is the sixth thing proposed , viz. quest. when did the covenant of peace commence , and who are included in it , and what is required in order to their actual possession of the peace , and blessings thereof ? . the covenant was made in eternity , but the time of its first commencement , was after our first parents had violated the law of the first covenant . . but it did not so fully commence in the actual dispensation thereof , until christ put an end to the covenant of works ; then it was ( as you have heard ) established ; he took away the first , that he might establish the second . ii. as to those who were included in it ; they were all the elect , or all the seed of christ , or all that he , as a publick head , represented , and no more . true , the whole world receives many external blessings by virtue of it , ( for the elect sake ; ) for jesus christ is their great landlord , and glorious sovereign . the world is upheld by a new title , i. e. from christ as mediator ; for had not he interposed between god and it , the whole visible fabrick doubtless had been dissolved , and the whole race of mankind lost for ever . iii. that which is required , in order to actual interest in , and possession of the sacred blessings of this covenant , and the peace thereof , is union with christ : i will cause you to pass under the rod , and bring you into the bonds of the covenant . under the rod , god brings sinners under convictions , that wounds like a rod , and makes them pass under the yoke , i.e. he marries them to his son , and so brings them into the covenant . sinners , by faith , take hold of this covenant , and christ being given to them , they also give themselves to him , to be his , and no more their own , but the lords ; they take god to be their god , and christ to be their saviour , and so come to possess the blessings of the covenant , and the peace thereof . but no more as to this , i shall proceed to the third general head. thirdly , my business and work is now to open the nature of the covenant of peace . . i shall , god assisting , shew you what a kind of covenant it is , or explain the properties of it . . apply it . i. the covenant of peace , is the covenant of grace : but pray observe , that the covenant of peace may be considered as twofold , or a mixt covenant . . as it refers to christ , or to his part , and work therein ; and as thus it was a conditional covenant , christ receives all for us , wholly upon the account of his own desert , or merits . . but whatsoever we receive by virtue of this covenant , it is wholly in a way of free grace and favour , through his merits , or through that redemption we have by his blood : but take it either ways , 't is of grace . first , as to the rise , spring , or efficient cause thereof , it was god's infinite love , and free grace to his elect : this moved the fato send his son to be our mediator , and to accept of him as our surety , to do , and suffer for us , and in our stead . i have before shewed , god was no more obliged to enter into a covenant of peace with christ for us , or any of adam's off-spring , than he was to reconcile himself to the fallen angels , for they were his creatures , and more glorious in their first creation than mankind were . the surety of the covenant was alone of god's finding , he procured him ; he hath devised means that his banished might not for ever be expelled from him ; for the lord hath ransomed jacob , and he sent jesus : what could be an act of higher , or greater grace and favour , than for god to vouchsafe , or provide such a mediator and surety for his enemies ? one so great , glorious , worthy , and able , and one so willing to undertake to make our peace , and bring us again home to god. secondly , and then as to us , this covenant god entered into with christ for us , must needs be of god's free grace : for as i have before hinted , i. it was not of constraint , i mean , there was no necessity laid on god , or jesus christ thus to love , redeem , and save us in respect of motive ; there was nothing in man i say , that could move the affections of god thus to do ; and much less was there any thing in us , in respect of merit ; we deserved no such love , either absolutely , or comparatively , because we were not only undeserving , but an ill-deserving ; nay , hell deserving creatures , being rebels to god , vile , contemptible , and base creatures , even as loathsome as filthy worms : what is man , that thou art mindful of him ? what is his deformity , his polution , his filthiness ? and o! what cursed enmity was there in our carnal mind ? yea , how much like to the devil were we by nature ? ii. in that god hath manifested his love and mercy to so many , this shews his infinite grace to us-ward . object . may be you will say , why not to more ? nay , why not to all ? answ. i answer , why to so many ? nay , why to any at all ? or , why to such that are called ? why to us , and not rather to those that are lost ? we being all naturally as vile and as bad as they ; nay , perhaps there are some sinners in hell , that were not so bad as some of us once were , which he has magnified his soveraign grace and favour unto . iii. the covenant of peace is alone of god's free grace , because , as our peace was made without us , not purchased by our money , nor by any thing done by us ; so the promise of our having interest in the blessings of this peace , or the application of the blood of atonement , are not conditional promises : i say , not on conditional promises , depending upon the corrupt and depraved will of man to perform , but they are alone free and absolute ; i will put my law in their inward part , and write it in their heart ; and will be their god , and they shall be my people ; they shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest ; i will forgive their iniquity , and will remember their sins no more — i will sprinkle clean water upon them : i will give them a new heart ; i will take away the stone out of their heart , and will give them a heart of flesh — are these promises made upon any conditions to be performed by the creature , or on previous qualifications to prepare us for grace ; no , they are all free promises , i will , and they shall ; god it is that opens our eyes , that works faith in us , that makes us willing to accept of that peace he has made for us : by the blood of thy covenant i have sent out the prisoners out of the pit , wherein there was no water . my brethren , the covenant of peace from hence appears to be the covenant of grace , it was with christ for us on hard conditions , but to us in him , only by way of free promise . iv. that this covenant is the covenant of grace , appears not only because it is wholly , or alone of grace that we are brought into the covenant , but also because by god's free grace we are kept in this covenant , or preserved in a state of peace with god unto the end : they shall not depart from me ; my sheep hear my voice , and they follow me , and i give unto them eternal life — and they shall never perish . v. but to proceed , 't is the covenant of grace in opposition to the law , the inheritance is not of the law. ( . ) for if they which are of the law be heirs , faith is made void , and the promise made of none effect . again , saith paul , for if the inheritance be of the law , it is no more of promise , but god gave it to abraham by promise . what is the inheritance but god himself , in the covenant , &c. and this is not by our obedience to the law , but by christ's obedience thereto : 't is not , my brethren , by our obedience to any law , not to the gospel as a law , for that would tend as much to make the promise of god void , as the other : for had there been a law given that could have given life , verily righteousness should have been by the law ; — and then also christ is dead in vain , gal. . . ( . ) in opposition to any after-service which we could do , in order to make god , or christ , any compensation , or return , by way of gratitude for making our peace , sometimes men shew great favour to the poor in distress , and pay their debts upon the condition that they shall work it out , or make a compensation that way ; but so it is not here , for when we have done all we can do , we are but unprofitable servants : can man profit god ? whoever gave any thing unto him ? vi. the covenant of peace is wholly of grace to us , because we are quickned , justified , called , pardoned , regenerated , adopted , have faith , a new heart , repentance , sanctification , and all things else whatsoever , by vertue of this covenant , in a way of free grace , or all is freely given to us of god. let me give you two or three reasons of this . . because god will have all the honour to himself of our salvation , he alone will have the glory , and abase the creature . . because his design herein is to exalt and magnifie his own son , our lord jesus christ. . that man might have no cause left him to boast nor sacrifice to his own drag , but that he that glorieth should glory in the lord. . because god will have the covenant of peace to be sure to all the seed , i. e. to all his people ; but if it were not of grace alone , it would not be sure , but an uncertain and mutable covenant , or on such conditions that might , or might not be performed . secondly , i shall shew you , that the covenant of peace , is the covenant of grace as compared with , or in opposition to the covenant of works : my purpose herein is to shew you the vast difference betwixt the covenant of grace , and the covenant of works . i. the covenant of works was made with man , or betwixt god and the first adam : adam was set up as the common head , or representative of all his seed , and he was obliged to perform all the conditions in his own person in that covenant . but the covenant of grace primarily was made with our lord jesus christ , or betwixt god the father , and god the son as mediator , in the name and behalf of all god's elect , he being set up from everlasting , as their covenanting head. ii. the covenant of works was made with man , without a surety ; adam , in his own person , for himself , and for all his seed , being obliged to perform perfect obedience , or live and sin not ; yet had he none to engage to god , or to undertake for him that he should thus do : but the covenant of grace and reconciliation was made solely upon the vndertaking or suretiship of our lord jesus christ ; true , he was obliged to perform perfect obedience to the same holy law of god , which adam ( and we in him ) was required to do ; yet it is said , that christ was made a surety of a better covenant ; and that not only in respect of the promises thereof , which are better promises , but also in regard of the oath of god , which renders this covenant firm , together with christ's ability , and faithfulness to perform all the conditions thereof , and it being a full and free covenant , and also ratified by the death of christ. iii. the covenant of works was a conditional covenant , as made with adam : it was made upon mutual restipulation between god and him ; and in the second addition of the said covenant to the whole house of israel , god promised them , that upon their keeping this covenant of perfect obedience , he would be their god , and they should be his people , thou shalt have no other gods before me ; and if thou keep my laws , and obey my voice , then thou shalt be a peculiar people unto me . and this also they undertook , promised , and covenanted to to do ; all that the lord our god speak unto thee , we will hear it , and do it . but what saith the lord to them ? o that there was such an heart in them ! he knew well their great inability and averseness to do whatsoever he required . but the covenant of grace is an absolute covenant as to us ; as i have , and shall further shew you by and by * . iv. the covenant of works , tho it required perfect obedience , personally to be performed by the creature ; yet it gave no strength to perform what it commanded . . but in the covenant of peace whatsoever god's law required of us to our justification in his sight , christ covenanted and performed it for us , and we in him . hence the apostle saith , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us : in us , christ and believers are here represented but as one person ; because what he did , we are said to do in him ; paul can't refer in this place to our inherent sanctification , for so no believer can fulfil the law , because his best works and sanctification are imperfect . . moreover , whatsoever duties god requires of us as to our actual justification , in our own consciences , and as to our sanctifica-also , he hath promised to give us his spirit to perform and work in us . . he commands us to believe — and he hath promised to give us faith so to do ; for faith is not of our selves , it is the gift of god , to you it is given not only to believe , &c. . he hath commanded us to make us a new heart , and he hath promised to give us a new heart , and to put a new spirit into us . . he commands us to love him , &c. and he hath promised to circumcise our hearts so to do , &c. v. the covenant of works laid all that broke it under god's denounced wrath and curse , and admitted of no mercy , of no forgiveness , heb. . . in the covenant of grace , christ hath born that wrath and curse ; he hath redeemed us from the curse of the law , being made a curse for us : no doubt but under the law he that was hanged on a tree , was not made a curse only politically , but also typically , as signifying that curse christ should be made on the behalf of the elect. and by being made a curse for us , he bore the punishment due to us for our sins , and satisfied divine justice ; so that all our sins , who do believe in jesus , are in the covenant of grace forgiven for ever . vi. the covenant of works , as to the tenure of it runs thus , i. e. do this and live ; but the covenant of grace runs thus in the tenure of it , i. e. believe and be saved ; believe on the lord jesus christ , and thou shalt be saved . the one puts men upon working , or doing for life ; the other puts them upon believing , and working from life . the first promises rewards for the creatures obedience , and threatens wrath and death for the creatures disobedience . the second promises rewards of grace to believers , for what christ hath done , or through his merits ; and threatens wrath for not believing , or for non-receiving of free justification through christ's obedience , or for refusing the only remedy , or for neglecting that great salvation purchased and merited by the lord jesus . vii . the covenant of works represents god an angry god , an incensed judge , or as a consuming fire . but the covenant of grace represents god in christ , a reconciled father ; this is my beloved son , in whom i am well pleased ; fury is not in me : there is no fury in god , no wrath , no condemnation to any that believe , or that are in jesus christ. viii . the covenant of works consisted all in precepts , in commands which were partly moral , and partly ceremonial ; the latter being numerous , some speak of more than three hundred precepts that were injoyned on the people ; for tho the ceremonial law shadowed the gospel , yet paul counts it part of the first covenant : see heb. . . yet i deny not , but that there was much grace held forth in it . but the covenant of grace , as to us , consisteth only of free promises . hence the elect are called , the children of the promise — vnto abraham , and his seed , were the promises made : now we brethren , as isaac was , are children of the promise . and hence the covenant of grace is called , the covenants of promise . note , 't is called covenants , in respect of the divers revelations , or declarations of it , as to adam , abraham , david , &c. and as revealed in the gospel , tho it is but one and the same covenant : true , it may differ in some accidents , but in substance it was the same , viz. jesus christ promised , and free justification through him , is the law against the promises ? that is , is the law , as given in mount sinai against the covenant of grace ? no , but given in subserviency thereunto ; or as leading to it by discovering the evil of sin , and the absolute necessity of christ's perfect obedience thereunto in our stead . ix . the first covenant required perfect obedience to the law in every man 's own person , in respect to their justification at god's bar , by which means , through man's weakness , and inability to perform it , 't is called , the killing letter ; the letter kills — for sin taking occasion by the commandment , deceived me , and by it slew me — sin revived , and i dyed : that is , as to any hope of life by the law. but the covenant of grace admits of a substitute , or of a surety , to keep the law for us ; and god accepteth of his obedience and suffering as imputed to us , to our free discharge and justification in his sight : and hence the gospel is called , the ministration of the spirit , and life . thus the covenant of peace , is the covenant of grace . ( . ) as considered in it self . ( . ) comparatively , or in opposition to the first covenant , or covenant of works . thirdly , the covenant of peace , is the covenant of grace , appears in that 't is an absolute covenant . i. it is not made on conditions to be performed by us , i. e. which being performed , gives us a right unto the reward promised thereupon ; because our right and title to heaven , is only by the righteousness of christ through his perfect obedience to the law , &c. the nature of the covenant of grace ( saith a worthy divine ) is absolute , or a covenant of promise , notwithstanding all the conditionalty contained therein . ( . ) in respect of the original proposer of this covenant , it came from the free and absolute will , grace , and purpose of the father , tim. . . the covenant of peace was not purchased by christ ; i mean , the covenant it self , tho the blessings in it were christ's purchase . ( . ) the covenant is free and absolute as to the elect personally considered ; because the whole of the foederal conditions lay upon their head , as undertaking for them . ii if we consider the covenant ( saith he ) in respect to its application , or its being actually applied to the elect in time ; this is done absolutely in god's bestowing grace , and the gifts of the promise to dead creatures ( or to sinners , as sinners . ) in whom ( as saith our worthy author ) there is an absolute impossibility of performing the least entitling act to the promise . there can be nothing freer than life to a dead creature ; neither doth life give a title to action , but it is the principle of action . iii. all the promises of the covenant in the promulgation of it , in its original nature , and as respecting us , expresses the tenour of it as most free and absolute : thus it was to adam , to abraham , to david ; and to us ; i will be your god , and you shall be my people : it is not you shall have peace upon the condition that you do this or that , ye shall be pardon'd , or then be justified ; no , but quite otherwise ; but he that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifieth the vngodly : 't is not by our obedience , or duties , but by the promises that we partake of the divine nature . pet. . . &c. all is given absolutely of free grace . true , there are in the covenant , conditions of connexion ; if a man believes , he shall be saved ; but who gives that faith ? is it not god ? pray observe that jesus christ hath made our peace , and faith to receive the atonement is given as an absolute promise : is not the spirit so given ? and pray , doth not god give the spirit , before faith can be exerted by us ? is not faith the fruit of the spirit ? and doth not the fruit proceed from the seed , and the act flow from the habit ? brethren , beware of them that preach peace to you , upon a conditional covenant ; the condition they speak of , is your repentance , faith , regeneration and obedience . and alas , who is able to perform these hard conditions ? besides , this is to turn the covenant of grace , into a covenant of works ; you must work for justification and peace , if you will have it ; nay , and you shall be no further justified , nor have peace , than you are sanctified , if you believe these mens gospel . but we say that peace is made , and god hath promised that he will give the spirit , even pour it out upon sinners ; he first pours out the spirit of grace , and then the sinners believe or look to him whom they pierced , and receive the blessing of peace , or have the minifestation of it to their consciences . there is no condition ( saith reverend cotton ) before faith , but a condition of misery , a lost condition : these men render god like pharaoh's task-masters , who would have their tale of brick , but find the israelites no straw . they will not have sinners to have peace , without doing that for it , which indeed no man is able to do ; but o! let poor lost souls look up to christ , wait on him , attend on his word , cry to him who hath received gifts for the rebellious also , i. e. the gift of the spirit , the gift , ( or rather ) the grace of faith , the gift of righteousness . will you have a righteousness wrought out of your own bowels , or by doing , or have none at all ? will you be saved by works , and not by grace ? but to proceed . . the absoluteness of the covenant ( saith this author ) appears as to us , in that all the foederal , intitling conditions contained in it , are found in another , i. e. in christ , and not in us , neither wrought in us , nor by us ; for , whatsoever is wrought in us , is of free grace . my brethren , doth a child contribute any thing to its own formation in the womb ? alas , what is in us before we are born again ? and of his own will begat he us , &c. object . but doth not the gospel require faith and repentance , as the condition of justification , and eternal life ? answ. i told you but even now , there are conditions of connexion by way of order and dependance of things one upon another : as in logick ( saith the same reverend divine ) if a creature be a man , he is a rational creature ; or if god be the first cause , he is the creator of all things : and in this sence ( saith he ) creation is a condition of salvation ; if a man be saved , he must be created : so if a man believe he shall be saved , believing is a condition of connexion , a state of grace is thus a condition to a state of glory , by way of connexion in the promise ; but one is not the foederal condition of another , but both come in as the gift of grace ; in this sence the covenant contains all the conditions of order and dependance in the exhibition and performance ; the hearing the word is the condition of faith , but hearing is not a foederal condition ; so the giving the spirit is the condition of union to christ and faith , and faith the condition of receiving of pardon , and living in holiness and the giving of pardon the condition of receiving it , and holiness the condition of seeing god , and of having eternal happiness ; but these kind of conditions are not foederal intitling conditions to the promise , but are contained in the promise , and denote the connexion and dependance of one promised benefit upon another . . god requires faith and repentance of them that shall be saved ; but ( . ) not that the creature can do either of these of himself , but to shew he will work faith and repentance in all whom he will save , or as he hath ordained the end , so he hath also ordained the means . ( . ) but not that either of these are procuring , or foederal conditions of the covenant blessings , or of salvation , because all the graces of the spirit are contained in the covenant as part of it ; therefore neither faith , repentance , regeneration , as the creatures part or work , can be conditions of it : these men call faith , &c. such a condition , that the mercies granted are suspended till we perform the condition . it is therefore , saith he , no more than an act of ours . true , we have a good bargain , as a man that gives but twenay guineas of his own , purchases an hundred pounds per annum . brethren , ( as our author observes ) we must distinguish of the ministry of reconciliation , in respect of the letter of it , and the spirit of it , cor. . . in the letter of it , or meer external dispensation it kills , because the sinner looks upon all these conditions of dependance , foederal conditions , but the spirit in its ministry is absolute , according to the original contract , and the fullest discovery in its highest freedom ; therefore the apostle says , the spirit giveth life . the believing corinthians , are said to be the epistle of christ , written and transcribed from the original-covenant contract ; not with ink , but with the spirit of the living god. therefore from hence we must distinguish between the covenant in its absolute tenure , and the ministry thereof , which is conditionally dispensed , according to the connexion , order , and dependance of good things contained in the promise to a mix'd people : the effects of the ministry will either soften or harden , it will either work effectually by the ministry of the spirit , according to the nature of an absolute promise , and unto such it becomes a savour of life , unto life , or else it works only in the letter , and unto such it kills , or is a savour of death unto death , or an aggravation of death and condemnation : but all its divine efficacy is according to the purpose , will , and good pleasure of god. but having occasionally spoken much before of the absoluteness of the covenant , i shall say no more , but conclude at this time. sermon ix . further opening the nature of the covenant of peace ; that 't is a well-order'd covenant , a glorious covenant , a full covenant , a seasonable covenant . &c. isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. i am , my brethren , upon the third general head of discourse , which is to open the nature of the covenant of peace . . i shewed you it is the covenant of grace . and that as considered in it self . . 〈◊〉 it is an absolute covenant . fourthly , to proceed : it is a well-order'd covenant ; see sam. . . yet he hath made with me , an everlasting covenant , ordered in all things and sure , &c. i. this covenant is well-ordered in all things in respect of the revelation , and manifestation of all the perfections , and glory of the three divine persons in the godhead . . the perfections , work , and glory of god the father shines forth , and is displayed in this covenant . . the perfections , work , and glory of god the son , shines forth , and is displayed herein also . . the perfections , work , and glory of god the holy ghost shines forth , and is displayed in it likewise , as hath been shewed . ii. this covenant is well ordered in all things respecting the manifestation , or revelation of the perfections , and glory of all the divine attributes of god , and as they also in this covenant appear to meet together in sweet harmony . iii. this covenant is well ordered in all things , to the utter overthrowing , defeating , and destroying for ever the design , devices , works , and kingdom of the devil ; for to this end was the son of god manifested . iv. this covenant is well ordered in all things to magnifie the sanction and honour of the holy law of god , in that rather then the law shall fall to the ground , or be violated , or rendered contemptible in god's saving lost sinners , the son of god comes and takes our nature on him , and yields perfect obedience to it ; and to greaten its glory , he died the cursed death of the cross , to answer the just punishment it doth denounce upon mankind , for the breach thereof . moreover , v. this covenant is well ordered in all things for our good , both in respect of grace here , and glory hereafter ; or in respect of what by it we are delivered from , and of those high priviledges , dignities , and of that unchangeable and eternal honour we are raised up unto hereby : but because i have lately upon another text spoken unto these things largely in two sermons on the covenant , i shall not add any thing further on this account * . fifthly , it is a glorious covenant . i. it must needs be a glorious covenant in respect had to the time when it was made , or entered into , between the father and the son ; and this was , as you have heard , before the world began , even in eternity , tim. . . tit. . . hence jesus christ 't is said was a lamb slain before the foundation of the world , rev. . . and what pilate , and the people of israel , and the gentiles , did to him , was whatsoever god's hand and his counsel determined before to be done , act. . . certainly that covenant that was so early , even from everlasting , contrived by the sublime wisdom of god , and entered into between such glorious persons as the father and the son , must be a most glorious covenant ; and this , i say , in respect to the time when , and to the persons who entred into it , certainly it must be some great thing that is contained in this covenant that was so early , and by the eternal god concluded upon . ii. it must needs be a glorious covenant , in regard that there was also a council held about it in eternity , for it was made as the result of a great and glorious council ; him , being delivered by the determinate council and fore-knowledge of god , ye have taken , and by wicked hands ye have crucified and slain . the father , son , and holy spirit then agreed , that the second person should assume the nature of man , and die to make our peace ; tho 't is true elsewhere it is said . the counsel of peace was between them both , viz. the father and the son ; yet since it is ascribed to god without distinction of persons , and also seeing the holy ghost hath his part in this covenant to act and do , in order to the actual and compleat accomplishment of the whole transactions agreed on in that glorious council , i see no reason to exclude the holy ghost from being concerned therein . moreover let us consider the great things consulted about in that glorious council . . it was how god might be just , or magnifie his justice , and yet be gracious , and magnifie his mercy , and infinite love and goodness ; or how god might preserve his own honour , and yet become our redeemer . . how sin might be punished , and the odious nature , and infinite evil that is in it , be exposed , and yet the guilty sinner be acquitted . iii. it is a glorious covenant , because in it there is a display of god's highest , and most glorious wisdom ; the gospel contains the manifestation of god's hidden wisdom , and the wisdom of god in a mystery ; nay , paul calls it a glorious mystery , to whom god would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery . there is much of the wisdom of god seen in his works of creation and providence ; yea , and there is also great mysteries hid in those works of god , but the chiefest and most glorious wisdom of god is manifested in the work and covenant of man's redemption ; without controversie , great is the mystery of godliness ; god manifested in the flesh , the word was made flesh. this is the wonderment of the holy angels , and 't is mervelous indeed , how an infinite nature should be personally united to a finite nature , so as to make but one person : what wisdom of god is here displayed ? o who can search out the depth of this mystery ? iv. it must needs be a glorious covenant in respect of that display of god's glorious love therein ; god so loved the world , that no created beings can conceive of it , neither men nor angels . and so i might speak of the glory of his justice , power , holiness , &c. which amazingly shine forth herein . v. also in that this covenant sets forth the glory , beauty , and personal excellencies of jesus christ. . in respect of his person , as god-man . . in respect of his offices , of which i have already spoken . vi. it is a glorious covenant in respect of those things which we are hereby delivered from , and are also invested with , and raised up to possess — is not that a glorious covenant , by the blessings of which , sinners are delivered from sin , which is the greatest evil ; and that brings them out of a state of death , wrath , the curse , and condemnation ? and that which also gives them , through the application thereof , an interest in god , the chiefest good ; or which restores god to them to be their god forever ? consider what glorious gifts and priviledges are given and granted in this covenant ? is not that a glorious covenant in which god is given , christ is given to the soul ? ( but this i shall open more largely under the next head. ) but o! what glorious priviledges are contained herein , as granted to all true believers ? moreover , what glorious grace is by this covenant procured for all the elect ? and what a crown and kingdom do they hereby obtain a true title unto . sixthly , the covenant of peace is a full covenant ; there is nothing wanting in it , either respecting the glory of god , or our good and eternal happiness . i. it is a full covenant in respect of satisfaction , merit and righteousness ; my brethren , neither divine justice , nor the law of god can require any more than what christ hath by his active , and passive obedience paid : god saith , this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased . christ is called the sun of righteousness , denoting that fullness of righteousness which is in him as mediator ; what is fuller of light than the sun ? and who is fuller of righteousness than jesus christ ? and as the sun communicates its light to all the earth , even so christ communicates his righteousness to all the elect ; i. e. his righteousness is imputed to all that believe : ( not the effects of his righteousness ) but his active and passive obedience , is the material cause of our justification , and the imputation of it , is the formal cause thereof , and from him by the spirit an inherent righteousness is also infused into the whole body ( to whom he is a head of influence ) to their sanctification . ii. this covenant is a full covenant ; because , in it , or in christ ( who is the sum of the covenant ) there is a fullness of sufficiency : and in the application of it by the spirit , there is a fullness of efficacy to all the elect , he is the head of the body , the church , the fullness of him that filleth all in all . christ makes the covenant effectual or efficatious to all his members , filling all who believe , with all grace by the spirit , leaving not one believing soul empty of what is truly good . doth the soul want light ? christ will give it ; he is the light of the gentiles : the light of the world. doth he want liberty ? christ releases the captives . doth he need rest ? christ gives the weary and heavy-laden rest : in a word , christ in the covenant is food to the hungry , cloaths to the naked , strength to the weak , health to the sick , courage to the faint-hearted , succor to the tempted , beauty to the deformed , riches to the poor , peace to the troubled , life to the dead christ is all in this covenant . iii. it is a full covenant ; because it answers not only all the wants of the soul , but of the body also : he will give meat to them that fear him , he is ever mindfull of his covenant : meat to the soul , and meat to the body . also , trust in the lord and do good , and so shalt thou dwell in the land , and verily thou shalt be fed . all things both for the body and soul , which god sees is good for us we shall have ; he will give grace and glory , and no good thing will he withold from them that walk uprightly : but yet , we must not be the judges of what is good , but leave it to god. we may think that is good for us which he may see to be hurtful . iv. it is a full covenant ; because in it there is the mediators fulness communicated to all such that are united to him as the effects thereof , 't is not a creature-fulness that is in christ ; no , but the fulness of god : for it pleased the father that in him all fulness should dwell ; — in him dwelleth the fulness of the god-head bodily : the fulness of the god-head dwells as truly in the son , as in the father ; and of his fulness do all believers partake , of his fulness all we receive , and grace for grace . . therefore in this covenant , we do not only receive light , but the fulness of light. . not only life , but the fulness of life , because christ is our life whom we receive in this covenant . . not only strength , but the fulness of strength ; the lord is the strength of my heart , and my portion for ever . . not only pardon of sin , but a fulness of pardon ; or , the fullest pardon , compleat pardon . . not only righteousness , but the fulness of righteousness ; perfect and compleat righteousness , and you are compleat in him . not only peace , but the fulness of peace ; peace that passeth all understanding . . not only beauty , but the fulness of beauty ; for it was perfect , thro' my comliness which i put upon thee , saith the lord god. . not only knowledge , but the fulness of knowledge ; and ye also are full of all goodness , filled with all knowledge , &c. the parts may be weak , yet where christ dwells or hath taken possession of the heart , there the soul hath a fulness of spiritual knowledg : our vessels may be full tho' but small . and . not only joy , but the fulness of joy ; these things have i spoken unto you , that my joy might remain in you , and that your joy might be full . again , he saith , ask and ye shall receive , that your joy may be full ; 't is called , unspeakable joy , and full of glory . . lastly , and not only glory , but the fulness of glory ; for the fulness of the glory of heaven is contained in this covenant , or the perfect and full enjoyment of god , even the beatificial - vision . seventhly . it is a seasonable covenant . i. in respect of god's early contrivance and making of it for us with christ ; it was provided ( my brethren ) before man sinned , or ready against the very time of need : poor adam when he had sinned knew nothing of it . but god provided the plaister before we received the wound ; he provided us a physitian , before we were sick ; or a saviour in this covenant , before we had sinned ; had not this covenant been made before with christ for us , we had been lost no doubt for ever that very moment man fell , every thing being beautiful in its time , or proper season . 't is ii. a seasonable covenant , in respect of the revelation or manifestation of it ; even just as adam had sinned , and when divine justice was ready to lift up his direful ax of divine vengeance : how seasonable is it for a poor condemned criminal to hear of a pardon , just when he is brought to the place of execution ; and the halter is put about his neck , or the ax lifted up to cut off his head ? iii. it is a seasonable covenant , in respect to the application of the blessings thereof to a poor sinner . . 't is by the spirit applyed , when the sinner sees he is condemned , being under the sense of sin , wrath and condemnation , beholding himself just dropping into hell ; then this covenant is opened , and the blessing of free justification , and pardon is applied . . when the soul and conscience of a sinner is wounded , and his wounds bleed ; then is the balm of the covenant applied to heal him . . when the sinner sees he is pursued by the avenger of blood , and sees no way to escape , then his eyes are opened and he is directed to fly to the city of refuge ; the way being made plain and easie , and the holy spirit directs the soul to christ , and crys refuge , refuge . . when the sinner sees he is so sick that he can't live , even then the physician provided in the covenant comes immediately and pours in his oyl and wine , when i passed by and saw thee polluted in thy blood , i said unto thee live — ye i sware unto thee , and entred into covenant with thee saith the lord , and thou becamest mine . eighthly . it is a sure covenant : ordered in all things and sure . — incline your ear and come unto me , hear and your souls shall live , and i will make an everlasting covenant with you even the sure mercies of david . i. it is a sure covenant , because it is made with such a surety as jesus christ is , it is not made primarily with us , but with christ for us , and with us in him ; the sure mercies of david : that is our lord jesus christ , he is the true antitipical david . sure , because they are mercies granted to us thro' christ's suretiship ; and when a sinner is brought into the bands of the covenant , god is said to make this covenant with him , i. e. he actually entering then thro' christ into covenant with god ; but our standing then in it , is upon the account of christ's covenant with the father for us . ii. it is a sure covenant , because it stands upon the absolute purpose and unchangeable decree and councel of god. my mercy will i keep with him , and my covenant shall stand fast with him . — my covenant will i not break nor alter the thing that is gone out of my mouth . hence the absolute decrees of god , are compared to mountains of brass , zach. . . denoting how unmovable , stedy and unchangable his councels are ; nay , tho' the mountains should depart , and the hills be removed , yet saith the lord , my loving kindness shall not depart from thee , neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , &c. all covenant-mercys are according to god's eternal purpose , which be purposed in christ jesus our lord : the covenant stands not only as the act of god's eternal wisdom , but as his eternal decree and purpose before all worlds . iii. the covenant of peace is sure , because it is confirmed by the witness of the holy ghost . . the spirit of god was a witness to the covenant when it was made . . moreover it was confirmed in the promulgation of it by the holy ghost , by wonderfull miracles ; for what served all those miracles more clearly for , than to confirm the authority of the mediator , and the verity and stability of the gospel covenant ? iv. furthermore , the covenant was ( as you heard ) confirmed by the blood of jesus christ , therefore it is a sure covenant . v. the covenant is sure ; because it is confirmed by the promise and oath of god : once have i sworn by my holiness that i will not lye to david , — his seed shall endure for ever , and his throne as the sun before me . this is as the waters of noah unto me , for as i have sworn that the waters of noah shall no more go over the earth , so have i sworn that i will not be wrath with thee , nor rebuke thee ; compared with heb. . , , , . vi. it is a sure covenant to all gods elect ; because the execution of it is put into christ's own hands , he is the executioner of his own will and testament , for tho christ was dead yet he is alive ; i am he that liveth and was dead , and behold i am alive forevermore . christ sees his last will and testament fully executed by his spirit . ninethly , it is a covenant of peace , this is the name that is given to it in my text , which also shews it is of an excellent and precious nature . i. 't is a covenant of peace with god , god is hereby reconciled to us , and we to him , and that for ever . ii. hereby we come also to have peace in our own souls , or peace of conscience ; nor indeed can we ever have true peace any other ways : for , can your repentance give you peace of conscience ? can tears of blood apease divine wrath , or satisfy divine justice ? can reformation of life give you peace , or your inherent sanctification , or pious and religious duties ? do you fetch your peace from thence ? if you do , your peace will be turned into trouble and anguish of spirit ; or can your lively and spiritual frame give you true and lasting peace ? i affirm 't is a false peace that is simply grounded on a lively and spiritual frame or disposition of heart , for there can be no true peace of conscience but by jesus christ ; thro' the blood of the everlasting covenant . he is our peace , &c. he will speak peace to his people . — not as the world giveth , give i unto you . dare a man plead his faith or good duties to justifie him , and so from thence fetch his peace and comfort ; alas ! what unrighteousness cleaves to our righteousness , what doubtings attend our faith , and what wandrings of heart attend us in our best duties ; nay , may we not find some hypocrisie in us also , tho in the main we are sincere ; our peace is only had in christ. iii. 't is only by the peace made by christ , as is revealed in this covenant , that a poor wounded disparing and distressed soul comes to have peace . i once cited a passage out of dr. owen , being pious anselem's directions to a poor tempted soul on a death-bed , let me repeat it here once again . minister , dost thou believe , thou canst not be saved but by the death of christ. ' sick-man , yes , i do so believe . minister , then let it be said unto thee , go , and whilest thy soul abideth in thee , and put all thy confidence in christ's death alone , place thy trust in no other thing ; commit thy self wholly to christ's death , cover thy self wholly with his death , wrap thy self wholy in his death : and if god would judge thee , say , lord i place the death of our lord jesus christ between me and thy judgment , and no other ways will i contend with thee : and if he shall say unto thee , thou art a sinner , say i place the death of our lord jesus christ between me and my sins ; and if he shall say unto thee , that thou deservest damnation ; say , lord i put the death of our lord jesus christ between thee and all my sins , and i offer his merits for my own , which i should have , and have not : if he shall say , that he is angry with thee ; say , lord i place the death of christ between me and thine anger . * o sinner , here is thy relief , it is in the blood of the covenant , it is christ's death under all fears , temptations , dispair and anguish of soul , here is peace even under the accusations of thy own conscience and satan's temptations , even in life and at the hour of death : o blessed covenant of peace ! who is it that is just a going to god's tribunal , that dares to plead what he hath done , or is wrought in him ? alas , all hands will be weak all hearts faint , and all felf-confidence will fa● them : this covenant is therefore all o●● hope , our peace , and all our salvation , and in it there is indeed a salve for every sore . vse . . sinner take hold of this covenant and tho thou art an eunuch , i. e. a poor d●● barren and fruitless soul , yet if thou tak● hold of god's covenant , or canst but ge● faith to take hold of christ , god will giv● thee a name in his house better than that o● sons and daughters . . saints do you fix your eyes also upo● this covenant , to plead the blood and merits of christ in this covenant ? rest alon● upon the lord jesus and on the faithfulnes● of god , in his promises in this covenant , fo● tho thou knowest nothing of thy self , yet th●● art not thereby justified ; nor can thy s●● condemn thee if thou art in christ , for tho● art perfect in him , touching thy justification before the throne of god. . with what comfort then mayst thou 〈◊〉 believer take the sacrament as a token 〈◊〉 the covenant-blessings : yea , thou takest i● as a pledge from god , that all his wrath 〈◊〉 over in christ , and that divine justice is satisfied towards thee in christ , and that all th● sins are for ever pardoned , that god is th● father , jesus christ is thy saviour , and heaven is thy inheritance , but here i shall conclude at this time . sermon x. shewing the covenant of peace , is a try'd covenant ; that it is but one intire covenant , viz. that the covenant of grace and rededemtion , are not two distinct covenants as some lately affirm , but only one and the same covenant : that t' is a covenant full of the strongest consolation , and lastly an everlasting covenant . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . i am upon the opening the nature of the covenant of peace , or to shew you what kind of covenant it is , i have passed thro an induction of nine particulars already ; shall proceed . tenthly , it is a try'd covenant . i. all the faithfull children of god ventur● their souls and their salvation upon it , and never failed any one of them ; adam no dou●● ventured his soul and salvation thereon , 〈◊〉 did abel , enoch , noah , abraham , isaac and jacob , and all the holy patriarchs , and all th● holy prophets , and the apostles of jesus chris● together with all the saints both in th● times of the old and new testament , an● they all found it , having try'd it , a sure covenant . ii. multitudes of souls departed this li● are already made perfect in heaven , by th● grace and blessings thereof , they find it t● their own unspeakable joy and comfort a sum and happy covenant : for it was by the merits and righteousness of jesus christ , or bloo● of the everlasting covenant , they are all go●● to heaven . iii. never did any person venture 〈◊〉 soul upon jesus christ , by vertue of this covenant , by believing truly on him ; but 〈◊〉 found it a firm and saving covenant : 〈◊〉 how many have try'd and found it so t● be . iv. satan that great enemy of believers and of the souls of men , hath often tryd 〈◊〉 and endeavoured to shake the hopes of believers , and break this covenant ; but h● to his shame and confusion sees that he canno● break the bonds thereof . eleventhly , it is one intire covenant , i. e. the covenant that was made with christ ●rom eternity , is the covenant of peace and ●econciliation , or the covenant of grace ; ●s well as of redemption . for , . was it not made with him as our co●enanting head , and so in him with all gods ●lect and for them ? some of late times would ●ave this covenant to be a covenant of re●emption , and not the covenant of grace ●nd reconciliation ; but a distinct covenant , ●nd so plead for two covenants , besides the ●ovenant of works , which we read no where ●f in the holy scriptures . was it not wholly of the free grace ●f god ; yea , and the highest act and de●onstration thereof , that he was pleas'd to ●nter into that covenant with his own son , ●s our surety and mediator ? . was not all the good which we receive ●n time promised to us in christ before the world began ? see tit. . . nay , was not all ●race given foederaly to us in christ in that covenant ? see . tim. . . who hath sav●d us and called us , not according to our works ●ut according to his own purpose , and grace which ●as given to us in christ before the world be●an . . was it not that covenant that was made ●etwixt the father and the son , that christ was made the mediator and surety of , and confirmed by his death ? and did not he un●ertake to die for all gods elect when the fulness of time was come ? or was not god in christ , in and by vertue of that covenant from everlasting a reconciling the world to himself ? and if so , was not the covenant made with christ of redemption , a covenant of peace and reconciliation also ? was it not representitively made then for us in christ , and actually made with us by application ; and that it might be thus apply'd to us in time , did not christ engage to see it done for us before time in that holy covenant then agreed on ? . is there any one promise , one blessing , or one priviledg which we received which was not primarily granted to christ for us in that covenant , viz. that our acceptation should be in christ , that our justification should be in him , and our sanctification should be in and by him , & c ? . was not the covenant of redemption made with christ as a publick person , a second adam : and if so , was it not made in him with all his seed ? take here what a reverend author hath asserted in this case . that scripture , isa . , , . is ( saith he ) a place wherein this covenant is clearly described between the father and the son , and it holds forth the covenant of grace fully & clearly , yea the promise of all grace and benefits that are contained in the said covenant of grace . and the apostle tells us expresly , that this covenant agreement was the will , by which will we are sanctified , thro the offering the body of jesus once for all . — he further argues , . that covenant that contains in it the whole matter and form in conditions and promises of the covenant of grace , doth not essentially differ from it ; but the covenant of redemption doth contain in it the conditions and promises of grace , yea , all things that pertain to life and godliness : and it contains in it all conditions upon which we may be partakers of any promimises , i. e. christ's person , offices , sacrifice , righteousness active and passive ; there 's no covenant condition of atonement , propitiation or satisfaction unto the justice of god : but it is here , christ is the great fulfiller of the law and satisfier of it ; and he is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth . . from the vailed dispensation of the covenant of grace ( saith he ) before the coming of christ , their sacrifices and ceremonial administration held forth in a figure , that it was made with christ and confirmed in him as the great offering and atonement ; christ is there exemplified and set forth as the fulness of the covenant of grace , both in respect of promises and conditions . . when we plead ( saith he ) for any thing of the covenant of grace , it is the promises of life made to us in christ , as yea , and amen ; and to us in him , in respect of obtaining and performing to us . . our justifying acts of faith is fixed on christ as the sum of the covenant of grace , as satisfying for our sins ; and as to whom the promises were made , and the great things promised , as the fountain and meritorious cause of all blessings : he is given to us as the covenant . there is ( saith he ) all grace to be had in this covenant , frustra sit per plura quod fieri potest per pauciora . there is no grace but is given forth and received by us , by the covenant between the father and the son , the gift of the spirit , the grace of faith , justification by his blood ; by him came all grace , yea , all other supposed grace that came not from the father , and through christ is no grace , and will not profit us . . where the covenanters conditions and promises are all from free grace and love to us , there 's a covenant of grace ; but in that covenant they call a distinct covenant of redemption , the covenanters , the conditions and promises are all of free grace and love to us ; god the father from his free grace and love to us called his son to this undertaking and covenanting with him ; god the son in our persons ( or in our behalf ) from his love and free grace covenanted with the father , he came and freely offered himself to perform the covenant conditions ; the condition of this covenant , in all mediatorial perfections and performances , is freely promised and bestowed upon us ; the promise of eternal life . all grace and glory are promised , and given in this covenant : that is a covenant of grace , wherein god is to us a god of all grace . . if the covenant of redemption be not the covenant of grace , then there is more covenants than the covenant of works and the covenant of grace for life and salvation ; but there is no more covenants for life and salvation , but that of works , and that of grace , the minor i think hardly any will deny — if church covenants be alledged they add nothing to this grand covenant , but are the accomplishments of the promises thereof to whom it doth belong , it being promised that they shall be gods people ; in this covenant christ stipulates and we in him as we did in the first adam , then ; and when we stipulate being moved thereunto from the grace of the promise , and enter personally into this covenant , embracing that covenant which was made for us in christ , 't is called a laying hold of it : it is solemnly also own'd , professed and restipulated to , when we enter into church fellowship : the repeating and restipulating , and renewings of the same covenant may be without changing the covenant : for we find god often repeating this covenant , and renewing it with his people in revelation and establishment , as with adam , noah , abraham , isaac and jacob , &c. yet it was was the same covenant : so are gods children excited and encouraged thereunto from the free-grace of the said covenant . thus this author . . now let me add one or two arguments more to what this worthy author hath said , viz. if the covenant of redemption , be not the covenant of grace , or covenant of peace and reconciliation , which god calls his covenant ; the covenant of my peace shall not be removed saith the lord : then it will follow , that our peace is made with god , or god is reconciled to us by a covenant of grace , which we enter into with him , which covenant christ merited for us in his performing the covenant of redemption ; and if it be so , how is it paul saith god was in christ reconciling the world to himself ? indeed as far as i can see , this notion of two distinct covenants of redemption and of grace , seems to be defended of late , on purpose to favour the grand errors of our new methodists viz. in the covenant of redemption , say they , christ made god amends for our breach of the law of perfect obedience , by himself alone , and for himself only , that so he might be a fit mediator , and merit a new law of faith and sincere obedience ; ( for their covenant of grace is a law of obedience ) which law or covenant he confirmed by his death . so that now god , say they , enters into a covenant with mankind , and if they perform the conditions of it , or so far as they do , so far they shall be justifyed , and shall have eternal life provided they continue unto the end ; and thus ( as before i have hinted ) christ is our legal righteousness in the covenant of redemption , he fulfiled the law of works , or the strict law of perfect obedience : by giving god a satisfying recompence , and so he hath abolished the law of perfect obedience ; but our faith , inherent-righteousness , gospel-holiness and sincere obedience , is our evangelical righteousness ; or that which justifies us at gods bar or in his sight : now this dangerous error , i say , seems to follow the allowing of two distinct covenants . . there is no distinction between the covenant of redemption and the covenant of grace ; because redemption presupposeth peace and reconciliation , and not only gods reconciliation to us , but our reconciliation to him ; for redemption is not from the curse of the law and wrath of god only , but also from sin , or a vain conversation , and out of the power and kingdom of satan , which christ ( by his blood as poured forth , and in applying it ) undertook to do in the covenant of peace ; which is called christ's covenant . as for thee by the blood of thy covenant , i have sent forth the prison●rs out of the pit , wherein there was no water . reverend charnock says , christ is the surety of the covenant of grace , but the covenant of redemption had no surety , the father and the son trusted one another ; the covenant of redemption was not confirmed by blood , &c. answ. had god only entred into covenant with christ , as a single person and for himself , there had been no need of a surety ; but since he entred into that covenant as a publick person , and that for broken and fallen mankind , whom god regarded not , their credit being for ever gone ; there was a necessity of christ's suretyship in that said covenant , in respect had to those things , which christ was to do for us , and also work in us ; which he then engaged to the father to perform , and if the covenant of redemption from sin and wrath was not confirmed by the blood of that covenant , one grand part of our safety and security is gone for ever . my brethren , our lord jesus christ when he first entred into the covenant with the father , agreed to be the mediator and surety thereof ; also evident it is , that there are some transactions where suretiship is required , which a surety must undertake to do , and readily agree unto ; even all such things which the creditor requires and the nature of the covenant calls for : so that there are some things that peculiarly belong to him as surety , even so and in like manner it was here about the compleat accomplishment of the covenant of grace entered into between the father and the son in behalf of the elect. yet all the good we receive through the applicatory part of the said covenant , are but the effects , fruits or product of the same covenant as it was made with christ for us , as our surety — also among men those things and covenant transactions betwixt the creditor and the surety which peculiarly appertain to him to perform and answer ( though the poor debtor nevertheless is mainly concerned therein ) they being such things that must be performed by the surety for him , or the debtor can have no benefit by it ; yet the free grants to the debtor in the said covenant upon the suretys engagement is never called a distinct covenant in it self , but ( as i said before ) 't is one and the same covenant , our covenant therefore is but a branch of christ's covenant with god the father , in which he engaged to spouse and marry us to himself for ever : therefore i know not what these mens nice distinctions signifies , unless it be to amuse the world , or except it be for the worser purpose just now hinted . brethren , the distinction lies not in two distinct covenants essentially differing from each other , but in the distinct parts of the said one intire covenant . i. one part as it refers to christ , viz. he is the surety and we the debtors whom he engaged for ; his money and not ours pays all , and makes satisfaction to god. christ is the redeemer in this covenant , and we the redeemed . christ is the saviour , and we the saved . ii. that part that appertains to christ was upon conditions of what he was to do and suffer , he hath obtained all for us wholly by desert and merit , and we have all , every way of meer grace and favour particularly in the applicatory part thereof : moreover , let it be noted that there is a difference in respect of the time of the making of the covenant , and of the revelation , execution and application thereof . christ in the covenant first articl'd with the father to be mediator and surety , &c. and in the execution of the covenant actually discharges those offices , and all things that appertains to them , one thing being his bringing of us home to god , or into the bonds of his covenant . moreover , take here what the reverend assembly of divines have said about the covenant of grace , viz. q. . doth god leave mankind to perish in a state of sin and misery ? answ. god doth not leave all mankind to perish in a state of sin and misery , into which they fell by the breach of the first covenant , called the covenant of works ; but of his meer love and mercy delivereth his elect out of it , and bringeth them into a state of salvation , by the second covenant , commonly called the covenant of grace . q. . with whom was the covenant of grace made ? answ. the covenant of grace was made with christ as the second adam , and in him with all the elect as his seed : thus that learned assembly . from hence it doth appear , that this opinion of two distinct covenants was not received by that assembly ; they own but two covenants i. e. that of works and that of grace , and i am sure the scriptures bear witness of no other covenant of redemption , but that of grace and reconciliation , which includes redemption and all covenant-blessings . my brethren , that very covenant made between the father and the son , was hidden or kept secret as to the clear manifestation of it till christ came , and then it was manifested , and the clear revelation of it is in the gospel , which shows how god manifesteth the grace of this covenant by offering pardon and peace to sinners , by revealing of christ who is called the covenant , and offering him to them for life and salvation ; so that this covenant contains all grace , mercy and redemption . moreover , remarkable it is to see how that learned person that wrote the book called the ark of the covenant , ( who too boldly asserts the covenant of redemption a distinct covenant from the covenant of grace ) doth in divers places contradict himself herein , take some of his words , viz. so that i take ( saith he ) the meaning of these words , this is my covenant with them , my spirit that is upon thee , &c. to be , this is my covenant that i have made with thee upon their account , and for their behoof ; or the covenant that i have made with them : to wit , virtully when i covenanted with thee , and made promises to thee for their behoof . he confesseth that the covenant of 〈◊〉 was made with christ primarily , and representatively , and with the elect in him ; and all promises of grace was made to us in christ in that covenant : and what do we say more ? but this is to overthrow his own notion of two distinct covenants . nay , the same author confesseth , that the grand thing he argues for , is to prove , that there is nothing spoken of christ's seed , as parties with whom god deals in this covenant , and upon whom he layeth any commands . answ. we say so too , christ is only the covenanting party for us , and on our behalf ; and all the doing and suffering work is laid upon him , he is substituted mediator , surety , saviour and redeemer ; 't is enough we were to be the saved , and accepted and justified in and by his obedience and merits : moreover , all commands concerning us are given to us from god in christ as mediator , but not to bring us into the covenant , but as being his redeemed people , as he is our king , we ought to obey and serve him . again , he saith , in this covenant christ received his offices , imployment , trust , powers and authority . a great truth ! ( and in the next place he says ) christ is lord mediator of the new covenant , &c. answ. is not the new covenant the covenant of grace , this they confess ; and he affirms christ was chosen mediator of the covenant of grace , let me infer upon him viz. if jesus christ in that covenant he entred in with the father , was constituted mediator of the new covenant , and he is mediator of the covenant of grace , how can that covenant be distinct , or essentially differ from the covenant of grace ? moreover , 't is observable how this great author , and reverend charnock differ one with the other , yet both assert the covenants are distinct this man says , that christ was surety of the covenant of redemption ; the other denies it , and says , the covenant of redemption had no surety , but the father and the son took each others words . true , we say none was a surety for christ to god in this covenant , nor for god to us ; but christ in this covenant was our surety to god , he undertook on our behalf ; one says christ is mediator ( king , priest and prophet ) of the covenant of redemption : the other says christ is mediator of the covenant of grace , but not the mediator of the covenant of redemption . the mistake , i humbly conceive , lies in this , viz. they distinguish not between christ's part and work in the covenant as our covenanting head , and the blessings we receive as the effects of his mediation . but again , our scotish author saith , christ is the covenant of grace comprehensively , he is the very compound , or there is an abridgment of the covenant ; in the mediators person , there is the little sum , or the whole covenant — consider this , how the parties articles , mutual stipulations , promises , proportion , and blessings of the covenant , are all some way abridged in christ , and summed up in his person . . christ is all the parties of the covenant of grace , or rather both the parties are comprehended in the mediator's person ; he is both the parties in three respects . ( . ) because of the union of the two natures in his blessed person , he is god-man , god made manifest in the flesh. ( . ) because the person who is mediator , is upon both sides of the covenant , as being one with the father and holy ghost , he is on god's part , joh. . . cor. . . and as he is one with us , he is on our side , heb. . . . for both he that sanctifieth , and they that are sanctified , are all of one — ( . ) he is not only upon both sides of the covenant , but he contracts for both the parties . . christ obtains the consent of both parties , p. . . the everlastingness of the covenant is comprized in christ , he is god everlasting , yea , an everlasting mediator , he was set up from everlasting , p. . now these things being granted by our author , what cause he hath to affirm , that the covenant of redemption , and that of grace , are two distinct covenants , i will leave to all mens considerations . but further , to confute this notion , take what another reverend writer hath written on this subject . the covenant of grace was made and established not only with us , but joyntly with jesus christ , and with us in him ; so that both are but one and the same covenant : for the great transactions with jesus , yea , even the giving and sending of him , and his accepting the office of a redeemer , and undertaking for us , are all of grace , as well as what is promised to us through him ; therefore the covenant of grace must take in all that conduced ( otherwise than a meer decree ) to our restoration , and eternal salvation . . there is ( saith he ) no scripture evidence for making these to be two covenants , ( one of redemption with christ , and another of grace and reconciliation made with us ) that distinction which some use , is improper , for the parts are coincident , seeing that which was made with him , was of meer grace also , joh. . . and it is promised , that he should be given for a covenant , isa. . . therefore it 's of grace we are redeemed by him , tim. . . there was grace before the world was , and that must needs be in the covenant as with jesus christ , which was for reconciling the world to the father , cor. . , . col. . , . it is true christ only is our redeemer and surety , not we in our own persons ; and christ hath some peculiar precepts and promises appropriated to him , which are not afforded to us in the same manner and degree ; yet this hindreth not the oneness of the covenant with him and us . . the covenant of grace was made with christ as a publick person , a second adam , and therefore with all his seed in him . . all in the covenant as with us , is undertaken for , and promised in the covenant between the father and the son , and so together make but one covenant . . all covenant blessings are primarily granted to christ : thus this great and worthy person . see also the everlasting covenant : a sweet cordial for drooping souls , p. . to . but because in my two sermons preached and published on the everlasting covenant , i have answered the reverend mr. s. c's eight arguments , to prove the covenant of redemption a distinct covenant , i shall refer the reader to that small tract , and say no more to this at this time . twelfthly , the covenant of grace , is a covenant of consolation , of strong consolation . . considering what is contained in it , and also the nature of it . . in that it is all our hope and salvation , all the water of life flows down to us through this covenant . . in that also it affords us comfort in all times , states and conditions , both in life , and at the hour of death ; and this was that which was david's dying , or sick-bed cordial . for consider , art thou afflicted , or tempted ? look into this covenant ; his seed will i make to endure for ever : if his children forsake my law — then will i visit their transgressions with the rod , &c. but my loving kindness i will not take away , 〈◊〉 from him nor suffer my faithfulness to fail . see cor. . . or , art thou backsliden from god ? see what god saith ; i will heal their backslidings , and love them freely . do thy sins grieve thee ? 〈◊〉 thy soul ? look into the covenant ; i will be merciful to their transgressions , and their sins and iniquities i will remember no more . or , art thou deserted ? god is faithful , he remembers his covenant , he will return again . dost fear thou shalt some time or another depart from god ? read the covenant promises ; i will put my fear in their hearts , and they shall not depart from me . dost thou fear thou shalt suffer want , yea , want bread ? see the covenant ; he will give grace and glory , and no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly . — if therefore there be any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies , 't is all in this covenant . lastly , it is an everlasting covenant ; he hath made with me an everlasting covenant : as it was made from everlasting , so it will abide to everlasting ; 't is compared to god's covenant of the day and night , jer. : . thus saith the lord , if my covenant of the day and night , and that there should not be day and night , then may also my covenant be broken with david my servant . covenant love is everlasting love , christ's covenanting obligation was an everlasting obligation , covenant espousals are everlasting espousals ; i will betroath thee to me for ever : covenant redemption is eternal redemption , and covenant salvation is an everlasting salvation ; israel shall be saved in the lord , with an everlasting salvation — but my salvation shall be for ever . sermon xi . shewing what is contained in the covenant of grace , or what the gifts , grants , and priviledges which are vouchsafed to all comprehended therein . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. my brethren , i shall now proceed to the next thing . fourthly , the fourth general head proposed , was to shew you what is contained in the covenant of grace ; i mean the gifts , grants , and glorious priviledges vouchsafed to all those persons that are comprehended therein . the first and chief gift which is given in this covenant , is god himself ; and in speaking to this , . i shall , god assisting , shew you how god comes to be our god in this covenant . . shew you what this of having god to be our god doth import . . i shall shew you what a wonderful gift , grant , and priviledge this is . i. my brethren , how man had god to be his god at first in the covenant of works , i shall not speak of here ; 't is evident that by breaking the first covenant , he lost god , or that blessed covenant relation he stood in to him ; but now we have a new title , god is ours again , and on better and more sure basis , viz. upon the account of christ's mediation and satisfaction — i will be your god , compared with jer. . . cap. . . and . . . now that these promises refer to the covenant of grace , see heb. . , , . and finding fault with them , he saith , behold the days come , saith the lo●d , when i will make a new covenant with the house of israel , and the house of judeth , ver . . not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers , in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of egypt : because they continued not in my covenant , and i regarded them not , v. . for this is the covenant , &c. — i will put my laws in their mind , and write them in their hearts , and i will be to them a god , &c. this being ( as i said ) the great and chiefest gift , and grant in the covenant , i shall proceed to shew how god comes in this covenant to be our god. . originally and primarily by vertue of that covenant made with christ , as our head and representative , thus he became our god ; i ascend to my father , and to your father , to my god , and to your god. . by his own free donation ; through that atonement christ hath made , god gives himself to us to be our god. . nay , by what ways soever we become god's people , by the same ways he becomes our god ; as i shall have occasion to shew you afterwards . secondly , what doth this import for god to be our god ? . negatively , not meerly our god by creation , for so he is the god of the fallen-angels , and the god of all vngodly reprobates in the world , they are his creatures , or were made by him . . it doth not imply his being our god as he was the god of the whole house of israel , which was by vertue of a legal , and typical covenant ; for tho in that covenant he was their god , and an husband to them , yet for all that , for their disobedience he cast them off , and utterly rejected them , and now they are so no more his people , that covenant and covenant relation , being quite dissolved and removed for ever : therefore it follows , that was not the covenant of grace , into which all the natural seed of abraham , as such , were taken ; the covenant of grace can never be removed . . neither is he our god simply by an external or visible profession , or by vertue of our own external personal covenanting with him , for many of these god will disown and be ashamed to be called their god ; 't is one thing to have the christian name , and profess the christian religion , and another thing to have a saving interest in god ; men may in this sense be in christ , and yet as withered branches be cut off and cast into the fire . but in the affirmative . i. god is our god in this covenant by way of special interest , it denotes our peculiar relation to god. ( . ) as a father is related to his children , whom he either hath begotten , or adopted , even so god in this covenant is our god and father . ( . ) or , as a husband is related to that woman whom he hath in his most indeared affections espoused , and married to himself . ( . ) or as an heir is related to an estate , or an inheritance which was purchased for him , and made sure to him for ever . ( . ) or as a redeemer , hath an interest in such persons whom he hath redeemed for himself , and bought and purchased for his own service , and to be for him and not for another . thirdly , i shall endeavour to shew you what an amazing blessing this grant , or gift in the covenant of peace is , i. e. for god to be our god. i. it is a choice and precious blessing for god to give himself to us according to that grant to christ in the covenant , because it is a clear demonstration of his special , peculiar , and eternal love and election : no man can say he was beloved from everlasting , till he is effectually called ; 't is not a man's having great riches , honours , pleasures , sweet relations , wealth , health , and prosperity ; no , but 't is his having saving grace : to kiss the king's hand is a great favour , but it is a far greater token of special love to be made his queen , and royal consort , and to lie in his bosome : o! what can be a greater evidence of divine love and goodness , than for god to give himself to us to be our god in the nearest relation that a creature is capable of , or can be brought into with his glorious creator , and blessed redeemer ; for this god to be our god , our portion , the lot of our inheritance , our shield , and our exceeding great reward , who were once his enemies and meer vassals of sin and satan : what tongue is able to express this love , or heart to conceive how great it is ? ii. it is an amazing priviledge , grant , and blessing , because god cannot give a greater gift than this is : my brethren , is there any thing in heaven , or earth greater or better than god himself ? what hath god to bestow that excels himself ? god ( as i may speak with reverence ) look'd round about on all things he had in heaven and earth , and saw nothing good enough to impart to his elect and beloved ones ; and therefore gave himself to them , who comprehends and infinitely excels all excellencies in both worlds : now is the fountain of the great depths broken up , and mercy and divine goodness flows down like a mighty river : o! what thoughts of love and bounty was in the heart of god to us , when he entered into this covenant of peace , with jesus christ for us ? what make a deed of gift of himself to us ? and on such a sure foundation too ? be amazed o ye heavens ! one smile of god's face , is better than all the world ; which made david say , whom have i in heaven but thee ? and there is none on earth that i desire besides thee . iii. because when god gives himself to a poor sinner , he gives all he is , and all he has , so far as it is communicable to creatures ; fear not abraham , i am thy shield , and thy exceeding great reward . my brethren , all that good that is contained in the communicable attributes of god , are in this covenant made over by a deed of gift to every believer , as i briefly shall shew you . i. divine goodness , this is let out to all true believers , the goodness of god is given to them , not only laid up for them that fear his name , but also it is imparted to them ; and this of all the attributes of god , seems to be the sweetest , it is one of the choice perfection of his nature , and that which renders god to be the object of our love , joy , and delight : as he is a great and just god , he is the object of our fear , and as he is a faithful god , he is the object of our trust , but as he is a good god he is the object of our affections ; god is good ; there is none good but one , and that is god ; nothing that is good , truly good , but what is derived from god , the loss of god only made man miserable ; and the damned being for ever deprived of god , is that which makes them eternally miserable ; and sinners having interest in god , in the goodness of god , this only tends to make them happy . quest. what a good is god ? answ. goodness in god may be considered under a twofold consideration . i. the perfection and excellency of the being of god , i mean his essential goodness , this cannot be imparted to creatures . ii. his communicative goodness , or that which god hath wrought out , laid up , and which he lets forth to believers ; o how great is thy goodness which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee ? which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the children of men — the earth is full of the goodness of the lord : i will make all my goodness pass before thee , &c. my excellency , or my glory . this is that which we call the declarative goodness of god. . god is absolutely good in the perfection of his being , he is independently good , there is nothing wanting in him , no defection , he subsisteth in and of himself , he needeth not us , and there can be no addition made to his goodness to make it more than it is . . god is originally and essentially good , not only good , but goodness it self ; goodness in creatures is an accessary quality , or a created , or superadded gift , but goodness in god , is not a quality , but 't is his essence ; he can as soon cease to be god , as cease to be good ; as a vessel of pure gold , the matter is pure gold , it self gives lustre to it ; but brass gilt with gold is another thing : so my brethren , a saint is one thing , and his grace , his righteousness is another thing . the fallen angels are god's creatures still , they retain their beings , but their holiness they retain not , that is gone : god is the first good , the original good , and essentially good. . god is infinitely good , goodness in creatures is small , and but little , but in god there is an ocean of goodness ; it is bankless , boundless , bottomless , our goodness is like a drop of water out of the ocean ; — nay , there is a greater disproportion between that goodness which is in god , and that which is in saints , than there is between the main ocean and one small drop of water , or between a beam of light let into a room , and the sun it self . . god is immutably and vnchangably good , as goodness in god cannot be augmented , so it cannot be diminished , he cannot change or loose his goodness , no not the least degree thereof ; i am god i change not — he is the same yesterday , to day , and for ever : god made man good and upright , but he long abode not so ; all things in the first creation are subject to change , but so is not the blessed god and creator . . god is vniversally good , we may have health and no beauty , learning but no grace , wisdom but no power ; men may be great and not good , rich but not vertuous , &c. but all perfections and excellencies meet in the blessed god ; he is a sun , a shield , wisdom , love , mercy , power , holiness , . faithfulness , grace , mercy , glory , &c. . god is an unmixt good , there is no condition of poor mortals , but hath in this life its mixtures ; honey yet some gall , grace yet some sin , strength yet some weakness , light yet some darkness , wisdom yet some folly ; but in god there is infinite and unmixt goodness , whatsoever is good , all good , and that without any mixture . . god is a soul-inriching good , a soul-suitable , a soul-satisfying good , and a soul-fatening good ; eat ye that which is good , and let your soul delight it self in fatness : why will you spend your money for that which is not bread , and your labour for that which satisfieth not ? there is enough in god to satisfie the holy angels , much more smaller vessels ; this good satisfies and not surfeits ; it satisfies the soul , the precious and immortal soul ; neither can any thing , or person do this but god himself alone ; they shall be abundantly satisfied with the fate things of thy house , and thou shalt make them drink of rivers of thy pleasure ; for with thee is the fountain of life : god made the soul for himself , it is fitted for him ; therefore creatures cannot satisfie it , god alone is the adequate object to it ; 't is spiritual , and its constitution is such , if it injoy not god , 't is restless , disquieted , and like noah's dove , it finds no resting place till it returns to the true ark ; return to thy rest , o my soul , ( saith david ) take up thy dwelling in god , trust in him . . god is a delicious good , a soul-ravishing good , he is an eternal spring of joy and delight , and in this covenant he displays his transcendent glory and perfections to his creatures , who by the spirit discern the heavenly beauty , and are made partakers of the divine nature , which so indears them to the divine being , that they are at times transported with joy , his glory shining in them ; there is nothing requisite to intire blessedness , but it is in god , which goodness powerfully alures and ingage the affections of every true believer , who is in the exercise of faith and love ; so that they at some seasons are filled with unspeakable comfort . . god , it appears from hence , is a superlative good , he is far better than any thing we can conceive of , he is man's only summum bonum ; who would weigh a feather against a mountain . . god is a communicative good , this crowns all ; why did he enter into a covenant of peace , and provide such a mediator , but to let out , as through a conduit pipe , his infinite goodness to us ? herein we see how his heart wrought from eternity ; it is an opening and an unfolding of his bowels , which lay secretly yearning in him ; this brings life and immortality to light , in the revelation thereof , here is an immense flood of bounty and rich goodness flowing down to mankind , which shews the excellency and amiableness of his nature most honourable to himself , and a perfect pattern of goodness unto men , that so we may adore and worship him with love and delight . lastly , god is an eternal good , all earthly good will fail , it lasteth but for a moment , but god and his goodness indures for ever ; why boasteth thou thy self in mischief , o mighty man ? the goodness of god endureth continually . his love , mercy , and goodness to his people is not fading and inconstant , but everlasting and unchangable ; the love of god will eternally be running and flowing forth , so that our joy , peace and satisfaction will never end , our portion wasteth not , it will never be spent , god is an eternal reward . ii. as divine goodness is that man 's who hath god to be his god , so is divine strength his also to support , uphold , and strengthen all that are his people ; my flesh and my heart faileth , but god is the strength of my heart , and my portion for ever : when god becomes our god , he is our shield , and our exceeding great reward , our rest , our fortress , our high tower , &c. when god made that promise to abraham , it is as if he should say , i and all my attributes are thine , for thy use and benefit ; my power is thine , my arm is thine ; fear not abraham , i am god all-sufficient ; and i will from thence communicate all things to thee that thou needest ; thou shalt have me , my goodness , my power , and my love for thy portion ; jehovah is my strength and my song , he also is become my salvation . iii. gods mercies is theirs also , he is not only a god of mercy , but a believer ( that has god to be his god ) may say with david of god's mercy , my mercy , the god of my mercy shall prevent me ; the mercy of god is ours , to spare and pity us ; that is , we have interest in the mercy of god , however great , or good and lasting it is , it is ours , his mercy shall be let out to us , flow down to us : and o! what a sweet blessing is this ? iv. moreover , divine wisdom is ours , if god be our god , to conduct , lead , counsel , and guide us , and to order and dispose of all things for our good . v. also the riches and glorious bounty of god is our wealth , if we have the person , or are married to the person , we have the portion , a believer hath interest in all the riches of god's grace and glory . vi. the care and faithfulness of god is ours to preserve and keep us ; to whom should faithfulness be manifested , but to such that are in covenant , and to whom all promises are made ; if god be our god , his faithfulness will preserve us ; who should a father care for , but for his own dear children , as well as love and pity them ? casting all your care upon him , for he cares for you . vii . his love is ours , ( who is the god of love ) if he is our god , that is , we are the objects of his most choice affections , his love is ours to delight and comfort us . hence he is said to delight in his people , and to rejoyce over them , as a young man rejoyceth over his bride . viii . his justice is ours to acquit us , to discharge us , and to plead for us as well as his mercy : and to pronounce us righteous in his son , and for ever pardoned ; he is just and righteous to forgive . ix . and his vnchangableness also will prevent us from being consumed , that 's our security : o see what a blessing and high priviledge it is to have god to be our god in covenant ? when jehoshaphat had made a covenant with ahab , see how he expresseth himself ; i. e. there is a league between us , therefore my horses are thy horses , and my people are thy people : and so it is between god and us , his strength is our strength , and his armies our armies , we have interest in all god has , there is an offensive and defensive leauge between god and us ; his angels are all ready to engage in our just cause , and fight for us , and against our enemies : if we implore god's aid , will he , think you , break his covenant ? god forbid . moreover , his special providence is ours , if he be our god ; i will guide thee by mine eye — hast thou not made an hedge about him , and about all he hath ? job . . thirdly , there is one thing more that ought to be minded ( that is ) in this covenant , all the holy attributes are united together , as a mighty army on our side , in christ they all sweetly harmonize , mercy and truth are met together , righteousness and peace have kissed each other . but having spoken to this already , i shall add no more to it now . see dr. bates ' s harmony of the divine attributes . fourthly , he that hath god to be his god in this covenant , hath him to be his god for ever , he shall never lose god any more , every believer hath an everlasting interest in , and a title to the ever blessed god ; this god is our god for ever and ever , and he will be our guide even unto death : this grant will never be revoked by the giver , nor can it be forfeited by the receiver ; you have heard how sure and firm the covenant is , by which we hold the inheritance ; he is our father , our friend , our portion , our strength , our help , our riches , our honour , and our god for ever . secondly , jesus christ is given to all believers in this covenant , this is a glorious gift , or grant : o! how great and how comprehensive is this gift ? god is not our god till christ is ours : o! consider ; every saint may say with thomas , my lord and my god : christ is not only a saviour , but a believer may say , my saviour ; he is not only a redeemer , but my redeemer ; not only the life of the world , but my life : when christ , who is our life , shall appear , &c. christ is not only light , but our light ; and not only a peace-maker , but our peace ; he is our peace that hath made both one : he is not only a bridegroom , but our bridegroom ; my beloved is mine , not only a physician , but our physician ; and not only a shepherd , but our shepherd ; the lord is my shepherd , yea , and our king , our priest , our prophet ; he is our righteousness , our strength , our food , our cloaths , our foundation ; who of god is made to us wisdom and righteousness , sanctification and redemption . in a word , christ in this covenant is all in all ; where there is neither greek nor jew , circumcision nor vncircumcision , barbarian , scythian , bond nor free , but christ is all and in all . thirdly , the next great gift that is given in this covenant , is the holy ghost , isa. . . the holy spirit is given to unite us to christ , to quicken us , to illuminate our minds , and to renovate our soul , to be our guide , our comforter , and to dwell in us for ever , and to seal all covenant blessings to us . fourthly , all grace is given in this covenant , faith , repentance , a pure heart , love , hope , humility , patience , charity , temperance , meekness , &c. but to every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of christ ; and not only grace , but all spiritual gifts also , yea , sanctified gifts ; thus many great gifts are given . fifthly , consider what other grand blessings and priviledges , are also given and granted , by vertue of this covenant , viz. ( . ) adoption , to as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of god. ( . ) righteousness and justification from all things . ( . ) sanctification . ( . ) pardon of all sins , and that for ever , and not only forgiven for ever , but they also are forgotten for ever . ( . ) peace . ( . ) communion with the father and the son ( . ) godly zeal . ( . ) spiritual strength and courage . ( . ) all ordinances are given , yea , fat and green pastures , bread and water of life . ( . ) the ministers of christ are given ; whether paul , or apostles , or cephas , or the world , or life , or death , or things present , or things to come , all is yours , and ye are christ's , and christ is god's : they have a right and title to all things that are good . ( . ) all the promises of god , are given in the covenant ; whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises : promises that suit every state and condition that we are , or may be in ; great as to their quantity , and precious as to their quality ; all the promises of god are in him , yea , and in him , amen , unto the glory of god the father . moreover , all gospel ordinances are given . ( . ) yea , a right to eternal life also is given and granted to all in this covenant , even a crown of glory that fadeth not away ; a kingdom , a crown , and a throne is given ; to him will i grant to sit with me in my throne . ( . ) final perseverance is given by this covenant . lastly , a free trade to heaven is granted , or free access to the father : but to this i shall more largely and distinctly speak at another time . o stand and wonder ! o what gifts , grants , blessings and priviledges are procured in the covenant of peace ? happy are they that are taken into it : but i shall go no farther at this time . sermon xii . shewing that as god in the covenant of peace is our god , so we also are his people , opening what this denotes ; i. e. our being god's people . ( . ) how this appears to be a covenant priviledge . and ( . ) also what a wonderful blessing it is . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . the last day i shewed you what wonderful gifts , grants , blessings , and priviledges are contained in the covenant of peace ; particularly , that god gives himself , and his son jesus christ to all that are brought into it ; he has promised to be our god , &c. but to proceed . there is yet one great blessing , which is included in the former , viz. that as god gives himself to be our god , so he hath promised we shall be his people ; this grant and priviledge is in the covenant ; and i will be their god , and they shall be my people , compared with heb. . . and i will be a god to them , and they shall be a people unto me . first , let me by way of premise note here four or five things . . that this is a most gracious , high , and sublime priviledge , ( viz. ) god to be our god is the first ; and this is comprehended in it also as the second , and next in order to be esteemed by us , i. e. we shall be his people . . that this is granted only as an act of god's free grace and sovereign goodness , through jesus christ : brethren , it is not upon condition of our doing this or that , that we procure this blessing 't is not , as the promise run to the people of israel under the first covenant : but 't is an absolute promise if there is any such in all the word of god ; i will be your god , and you shall be my people . men nor devils , ungodly relations , our own evil hearts , nor our great unworthiness shall ever hinder us from being god's people . . that god's giving himself to us , is the spring , the cause and reason why we become his people ; we have not god , christ , and the holy spirit , because we are believers , or penitent persons , but he first gives himself his spirit , &c. god first gives himself in working of faith ( saith reverend cotton ) before faith can be there . therefore faith is called , the fruit of the spirit ; man is passive in regeneration , or in god's infusing the first principle , root , or habit of faith , and of all grace in him . . this implies , that we were once not actually god's people ( notwithstanding the design and purpose of grace that was in his heart concerning us ; ) i will call them my people , which were not my people ; and her beloved , that was not beloved ; that is , that were not actually his people , nor own'd and acknowledged so to be , we lost this relation to god by the fall : when god ceased to be our god , by way of special interest , we ceased to be his people . . they shall be my people ; this denotes the certainty of their special vocation , and of our being his people for ever ; he shall see his seed , all that the father hath given to me shall come unto me ; that is , they shall believe in me , &c. now in speaking unto this promise , grant , and priviledge . . i shall first shew you in what respect , or consideration we may be said to be god's people . . shew you what kind of people god's covenant people are ; i mean such that are actually owned to be his people . . shew you what a great blessing this is . . apply both these great priviledges together . i shall wave several acceptations , by which a people may be called god's people , that i may directly come to the business in hand . . we may be said to be god's people , and he our god decretively , or by virtue of god's eternal election ; god chose christ as our head , and all the elect in him : see our lord's words ; other sheep have i that are not of this fold , them i must bring : he calls them his sheep , and yet then they were ungodly and unbelieving ones : so he said to paul , i have much people in this city ; they were his people decretively , tho not actually his at that time . . the elect were god's people foederally , or by virtue of that holy covenant made betwixt the father and the son ( as i hinted before ) and now that this relation also arises from those covenant transactions , is most evident ; for jesus christ struck hands with the father , in behalf of all god's elect , to procure this priviledge : but a little further to open this , pray consider that there is a foederal union and relation , as when the father of a young man , and the father , or guardian of a young damsel shall mutually agree and covenant , that they two shall be man and wife ; even thus god the father and god the son agreed and covenanted in behalf of all the elect : christ was , as i may say , their guardian , yea , and also he covenanted to espouse and marry them to himself for ever , and god the father gave the elect to christ in this covenant . moreover , herein he had the advantage of others ; for may be such a young man , as before mentioned , might not love the person his father covenanted with her guardian to be his wife , or he might not be able to obtain her affections , but christ's love was set upon his intended spouse from everlasting , and also he knew how to gain our love , and unite our hearts to himself , and that by sheding his love abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost , rom. . . the love of christ , hath in it a physical operation . and thus , my brethren , by covenant , and the free donation of the father , we become god's people , or in a remote sense , were thus brought into this blessed relation to him ; thine they were ( that is , by election ) and thou gavest them me . again he saith , i pray not for the world , but for them that thou hast given me , for they are thine . . the elect are god's people by virtue of christ's purchase , he bought them with his own blood ; ye are not your own , for you are bought with a price , &c. and it was that they might be a peculiar people unto god : hence the apostle saith , who gave himself for us , that he might redeem us from all iniquity , and purifie unto himself a peculiar people zealous of good works ; or a famous or principal people , as the greek word renders it . without this price had been laid down , we had never been brought into this relation unto god. . they are god's people by renovation , or regeneration , of his own will begat he us by the word of truth . . by conquest also believers are brought into this relation , god hath subdued them unto himself , he has by his victorious grace overcome them , and this way they are made his liege people , and he becomes their god and soveraign , as having rescued them out of the hands of sin and satan , those cruel tyrants , whose slaves , subjects , and servants they were before : christ has set them free , or made them a free people indeed , to and for himself . . the elect are actually the lord's people , by the in-dwelling of the holy spirit , or by virtue of their mystical vnion with christ by the spirit , which is the bond of this union on christ's part ; and by this means we come to chose jesus christ as the only object of our affection , and blessed bridegroom of our souls ; and also hereby we take god to be our god , and thus we are actually and personally brought into this relation to him , in which sense , and in respect of these and the two last things mentioned , we were not his people before ; for notwithstanding the covenant agreement of parents , or a marriage by proxy , betwixt great persons , yet they must after that actually and personally be married together , before they can injoy each other , or properly be said to be man and wife : and so , my brethren , it is here , for notwithstanding the decree and purpose of god , and his eternal compact and donation ; and also notwithstanding the purchase of christ , yet till by the spirit we are united to christ , and do believe in him , close in and imbrace him , and enter into an actual covenant with god in and by jesus christ , we cannot be said to be properly god's people ; for before this we were the children of wrath , and the slaves of sin and satan : but so much to the first thing proposed . secondly , i shall endeavour to shew you what a kind of people these are that are thus brought into covenant with god. i. they that are god's peculiar people , have renounced all other lords from having any claim to them , or interest in them . . they have broke that covenant which they had made with sin , that union is dissolved , their love to sin is gone for ever ; i do not say the being of sin in them is gone ; no , sin will be in their hearts , and in their conversations too , but it is not in their affections ; they approve not of it , they regard it not ; the evil which i hate , that do i , saith paul ; i have vain thoughts , saith david ; to love sin is worse than to commit it , and to hate sin is better than to leave it ; a good man may commit sin , and yet loath it , and a wicked man may leave sin and yet love it ; ye that love the lord hate evil : ye do so , or else you are none of god's people , i. e. it is your character , and also your duty . . they have renounced the love of this world , they are dead , nay , crucified to the world , they that are god's peculiar people have not only crucified the flesh , or are become dead to sin , but have crucified the world also ; but god forbid that i should glory , save in the cross of our lord jesus christ , by whom the world is crucified unto me , and i unto the world. the world careth not for them , and they care not for the world , they are dead to the honours , pleasures , and riches of the world ; moses contemned all the glory of pharaoh's court , yea , all the pleasures of sin and riches of egypt ; and so do all god's sincere people contemn this world : if any man love the world , the love of the father is not in him . . they that are god's peculiar people , are become dead to the law , to that cruel husband , and to all their own righteousness , accounting it but dung , or a dead carkase , or dogs-meat in comparison of christ ; ye also are become dead to the law by the body of christ , &c. the union with that husband is dissolved , they seek not life and justification by the law , or are not in love with self-righteousness , but dead to it , whilst others make an idol of it , and trust in it . . they have renounced themselves also , and confess they are not their own , but that their souls , their bodies , their substance , their graces , their gifts , their time , their strength , their lips , and their lives are all the lord's , and for him ; for as all that god hath which is communicable is theirs , or freely imparted to them , and for them ; so all they are and have , they account it is the lord's , they being but only stewards of all they have and do possess : shall such think that they are the lord's who live to themselves , seek themselves , or only bring forth fruit ( like empty vines ) to themselves ? no , they that are the lord's people , esteem all they have to be his , and for his service , and are willing to render it up to him when he calls for it . nay , they have given god their hearts , not their lips only , or their tongues , nor their ears , nor their substance , but their hearts also ; my son give me thy heart . god complains of some that drew near to him with their lips , and sate before him as his people sate , and with their tongues shewed much kindness , but ( saith he ) their hearts went after their covetousness , after the world , these god's soul abhors , and he will not own them to be his people : some give their hearts to pleasures , to strange women , and to vanity , and to meer folly , and others give their hearts to riches , but god's covenant-people give their hearts to him , not a part of the heart , but their whole heart ; they love the lord their god with all their hearts , with all their souls , and with all their strength : others have their hearts divided between god and the world , between god and their lusts ; but such that love not god with their whole heart , hate him , for the lesser love is accounted hatred in scripture . ii. they that are god's peculiar covenant-people , are begotten and born of god , for they this way ( as you heard ) become his children ; there are none , my brethren , that are the lord's people by adoption , but they are his also by regeneration ; they have his image formed in them , they are like to their father in holiness , heavenliness , in humility , mercy , meekness , love , goodness , charity , &c. they partake of the divine nature , every one resembles the son or daughter of a king ; then said he unto zeba and zalmunna , what manner of men were they whom ye slew at tabor ? and they answered , as thou art , so were they , each one resembled the children of a king : they are nobly descended , they have sublime spirits , holy hearts , desires , aims and ends in all they do ; they are not meer dunghil-rakers , like the men of the world , but far excel all others ; the righteous is more excellent than his neighbour , he has an excellent spirit , life , and principles in him . iii. they that are god's covenant-people , trust in him as their god , as well as love him as their god ; all people trust in their god , tho it be a god of gold , or silver ; a worldly man's strong confidence is his wealth , he makes gold his hope : so they that have god to be their god , trust in him , depend upon him ; they that know thy name , will put their trust in thee : they trust in the true and living god , god is their hope their confidence , they rely upon his power , his mercy , his love , his faithfulness , his covenant , and on his blessed promises , and this at all times , in afflictions , desertion , temptations , &c. and when called to any hard service : in prosperity , and in adversity , in times of want and necessities , and in times of fulness ; in life , and also at the hour of death : this tends , my brethren , to the glory of god , and by this they shew what a value and esteem they put upon god. how often does david say , he trusted in the lord , and because god was his god , o my god , i trust in thee . job says , tho he slay me , yet will i trust in him : tho they see not , feel not , or have no sensible comfort , or relief , yet can and will trust in god , tho god hides his face , or they walk in darkness , and have no light. iv. god's peculiar people highly love , value , and prize the lord jesus christ : they can say with david , whom have i in heaven but thee ? neither is there any on earth that i desire besides thee . they have tasted how good the lord is , and beholding his beauty can say , he is the chiefest among ten thousand ; they live upon christ , fetch all their comfort , and hope of salvation from him , and rejoyce in him alone ; serving god in spirit , and have no confidence in the flesh. moreover , when they have done all things that christ hath commanded , they look upon themselves unprofitable servants , they live in him , to him , and by him ; their living in him shews christ is their life , their living to him shews christ is their ultimate end , their living by him shews christ is their strength ; they receive the spirit , and so live in the spirit , and walk in the spirit ; they bring up the bottom of their lives to the top of their light , they do not only know what is to be done , but do what they know ; the darkness of carnal professors will be the blackest , because their light seemed to be the clearest , but these are better inwardly in substance , than outwardly in appearance ; in a word , they are as much in love with the imployment of holiness , as with the injoyment of happiness , or to be holy here , as well as happy hereafter , or to live to god on earth , as well as with him in heaven . v. god's covenant-people ascribe all the glory to him , and take all the shame to themselves ; both riches and honour come of thee ; the power , the glory , and the victory is thine , and of thine own have i given thee . luther was contented to be counted a devil , so that christ might be exalted ; others make their end their god , but these make their god their end : the glory of god ( saith one ) should be the golden-butt at which all our arrows of duties are shot ; the only way to be crown'd in heaven , is to cast our crowns at christ's feet on earth . vi. god's covenant-people can say , there is nothing which they enjoy , that is of any worth , without god be injoyed with it : therefore they know to want god is the greatest evil , and to enjoy god is the greatest good ; if god be withdrawn , all their comfort is gone ; 't is day when we have him , but 't is night when we want him : what is health and no god ? riches and no god ? pleasures and no god , honours and no god ? relations , wives , children , friends , and no god ? a little will do with god ; nay , if we have nothing besides him , we have enough , nay all ; but if we have all other things and no interest in god , we have nothing . vii . they that are god's peculiar people , are a holy people , a heavenly people , a humble people ; to this man will i look that is poor and of a contrite heart , and that trembleth at my word . god resisteth the proud , but giveth grace to the humble — be ye holy for i am holy. my people shall be willing in the day of my power , in the beauty of holiness , &c. vii . they are an obedient people , they walk in god's ways and keep his precepts ; for all people will walk every one of them in the name of his god , and we will walk in the name of the lord our god for ever and ever . they yield universal obedience to god , or do whatsoever christ says , and that too because they love him ; and also they are constant in their obedience , they keep god's precepts always even to the end . ix . they are an upright people , a sincere people , sincere in their obedience ; surely they are my people , children that will not lie ; not children of deceit , or falshood , but faithful , and upright in heart : they are called , the assembly of the vpright ; that is , sincere worshipers of god , israelites indeed , in whom is no guile , no falshood , or no reigning hypocrisie . moreover , they are called , the generation of the vpright , men of clean hearts , and undefiled in the way , or perfect ones , i. e. they want no essential thing of true christians . x. god's gospel covenant-people are an united people , being constituted or incorporated into a church state , according to the institution of christ in the new testament , being separated from the world in worship , and all evil traditions , customs , &c. worshiping god in spirit and in truth , giving themselves up one to another ; keeping all the ordinances of christ as they were once delivered to the saints , owning the holy scriptures to be the only rule of their faith and practice , having regular and ordained officers , viz. both pastors and deacons , and walking in love , and watching over one another as becometh saints . xi . lastly , the peculiar people of god , love all the children of god , even such that differ from them in some things that are circumstantials , they love as christ loves ; as they love him that begat , so they love them also ( and all them ) that are begotten of him : if god was your father , you would love me , for i proceeded forth , and came from god ( saith our saviour ) he that loves the father , will love the child so far as he resembleth the father : by this shall all men know ye are my disciples if you love one another — he that loveth not his brother , abideth in death : and this is a sign that they are passed from death to life . brethren , this love is not in word and in tongue , but in deed and in truth also : how doth it appear you love your wife , your children ? even so let it appear you love all the people of god , i. e. let nothing be too dear to part with for their sakes , speak well of them , and do much for them , and bear them always upon your hearts , when you are at the throne of grace : if you would approve your selves to be god's people , this being so , what shall we think then of him that hates any one of the children of god , or bears malice in his heart against him , and reproaches him . thirdly , i shall shew you what a great blessing and priviledge this is . . can there be a greater priviledge than to be made god's own peculiar people ? for hereby god is their father , and they his children . ( . ) he loves them as his children . ( . ) he feeds them as his children . ( . ) he cloaths them as his children . ( . ) he teaches them as his children . ( . ) he pities them as his children , isa. . , . ( . ) he guides , leads , and protecteth them as his children . ( . ) he chastens them in love as his children , heb. , , . ( . ) and lays up for them also as his own children ; if children then heirs , heirs of god , and joynt heirs with christ — o! what an honour is it to be the sons and daughters of god ? cor. . . of the great god , the king of heaven and earth ? nay , to be begotten and born of him , joh. . , . . they have the priviledge to dwell in his house ; nay , to dwell with god , and to walk with god , and to have communion with him , joh. . moreover , . their enemies are god's enemies , and their friends are god's friends , the angels that are god's servants , are their servants , and are sent to minister unto them , &c. . they are espoused by jesus christ ; they are the jewels of his heart , mal. . . or his chiefest treasure . . god will never leave them , nor forsake them . and , . all things shall work together for their good . . and he will crown them at last with glory and immortality . question . what assurance hath god given that they shall be his people for ever ? answ. because his love is eternal , or unchangable , his love is their security ; nothing can separate them from the love of god which is in jesus christ our lord. . the decree and eternal election of god , is their security . . because the mercy of god , which is in jesus christ our lord , endureth for ever . . because the goodness of god indureth also for ever . . because his covenant and faithfulness can never fail , in which they are made his people . . because he hath put his fear into their hearts , that they shall not depart from him . . the promise and oath of god , is their security . . they are justified and pardoned for ever . . christ's suretiship is their security , they are put into his hand , and none can pluck them out : ( these things have been fully opened already as you have heard . ) . the death , resurrection , ascention , and intercession of jesus christ , is their security . . their union with christ , which is an undissolvable union , is their security . . the inhabitation of the holy ghost is their security , it remains , and shall remain in all true believers for ever ; they have it as a principle of eternal life ; and as an earnest , witness , pledge , and seal of glory to come unto them . application . infer . o the wonder of divine goodness ! how amazingly doth it flow forth in this covenant to sinful mankind ? ( as one notes ) herein we may see the scheme and model of his thoughts , the method of his councils , and treaties of man's recovery : behold the motions of his goodness in its descent to earth , and ascent to heaven , carrying at last the creature with it , to the wearing a crown upon its head : here is a medicine provided before the disease , a pardon for traitors before the rebellion broke out . . we infer from hence , that the christian religion , revealed religion , excels all religions , in that it shews the way of peace with god. . what greater demonstrations of love , of infinite love could god give ? what give himself to us ? what hath he more , all happiness is comprehended in god ? . behold the excellency of faith , as it applies christ , and takes hold of him , and gives peace to a poor , troubled , and wounded spirit ; and also see what sure footing , and firm foundation there is for faith in this covenant . . moreover , from hence you may see the strength and sufficiency of christ in all the concerns of his mediation , together with his excellencies ; how precious is he who is made all in all things to us ? . reproof . but how doth this reprehend their folly and ignorance , who affirm that believers , yea , justified persons , may finally and totally fall away and perish ? how are such here detected ? terror . it may also be for terror to such , who think they are god's people , and yet are unbelieving , and prophane persons , they glory they are christians , born of christian parents ; nay , protestants , and know the articles of their religion ( and were baptized , as they call sprinkling ) but are swearers , drunkards , vnclean persons , proud , and covetous ones , &c. alas , what will their religion signifie ? you hear who are god's people , and what kind of people they are . . it also shews you the necessity of regeneration and union with christ , and that you must renounce all for his sake , that was once gain to you , or you must perish for ever . . lastly , what comfort is here for all drooping believers , weak in faith ? what in covenant with god , and yet fear ? what are you put into christ's hand , and yet doubt ? has god given you such security that your persons are accepted , your sins pardoned for ever , and yet hang down your heads ? all is yours , whether you know it or not ; god is yours , christ is yours , pardon is yours , peace is yours , strength in weakness is yours , succour in temptation , &c. life is yours , death is yours , i. e. for your good , death that is so great an evil , and so dreaded by the wicked , is yours — that is your great gain , yea , a mighty blessing to you : bread is yours , bread for your souls , and bread for your bodies , even all that god sees good for you , is yours . sermon xiii . shewing what a glorious trade is opened to heaven for poor sinners by the covenant of peace . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . doct. that there is a covenant of peace , made or agreed on , and stands firm in the behalf of all god's elect. i am upon the fourth general head of discourse ; namely , to shew you what is given , granted , or vouchsafed to all those that are brought into covenant with god. i have passed through an induction of twelve particulars , upon this account . thirteenthly , the last priviledge , or blessing that is hereby procured and granted , which i shall speak to now , is that of a free trade to heaven : this , you know , is one of the great and chiefest blessings that follows a peace made between princes and states on earth . i. war stops up , or interrupteth all trade and commerce betwixt those kingdoms and states that are at war one with another , ( the sad and bitter effects of this we in this nation have lately felt , by means of the late war , which now is happily ended ; ) even so , my brethren , all spiritual trade and commerce betwixt god and man , was stop'd , and utterly interrupted by that fearful war , which was occasioned by our sin and rebellion against god in the first adam ; the flaming sword that turned every way , was a token of this : poor man could not now make any approach to god , no trading to heaven any more for mankind , until his peace is made , or procured . . god will not admit sinners to receive any of his special , spiritual , saving , and soul-inriching commodities , tho through his great bounty and goodness he doth give forth common gifts , or earthly good things to his enemies . . nor will god receive of man any thing that he hath , or can do , or offer to him , until his peace is made , and his person accepted in his sight , for sinners hearts being departed from god , their very prayers , and all their services are abomination unto him , and hateful in his sight : so that all ways of blessed intercourse betwixt god and man , were stoped up , and the streams of that river , by which all spiritual blessings must come to them , are stayed , viz. the holy spirit : besides thieves , pyrats , and robbers were let out upon them , i mean satan , and all the powers of darkness ; and thus was mankind brought to utter beggery , for all their original riches , or righteousness , and blessed treasure was utterly consumed by means of that first act of rebellion ; nor was there any ways left to mankind to get one penny to help or relieve themselves in their necessity . but no sooner was there news brought of this covenant of peace , or it was published to our first parents in that promise ; the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpent's head. but there was a free trade opened again for all believers , tho it was then but darkly discovered . now in speaking unto this great grant , blessing , and priviledge , i shall endeavour to do four things . . shew you what i mean by this free and open trade to heaven . . prove that this priviledge is granted as the effects of the covenant of peace . . shew you that this is the best trade or traffick in all the earth , viz. our spiritual trading to heaven by jesus christ. . apply it . . by this trade or traffick to heaven , i mean , our free intercourse or access to the father . . god's free and kind distribution , or giving forth the best of heaven unto us , when we come or approach unto him by jesus christ , or in this new and living way , and that to the inriching of our souls ; not only , my brethren , barely to supply our wants , and pinching necessities , but also to the making of us very rich and great . . i mean by it , god's gracious acceptance of our persons , duties , and all our holy and spiritual performances , or services , which is no small favour and blessing , but one of the greatest we can partake of ; for this must always be premised , that god will never accept of any man's duties , till he first accepteth of his person ; for thus he first accepts of abel ; that is , of his person , the lord had a respect unto abel , and to his offering ; he offered his offering in faith , he was a believer , and god accepted of his person in christ , and so he doth of the persons of all true believers , wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved — in whom we are united and made members of his body , and it is in him that god looks upon us . secondly , i shall endeavour to prove , that this trade , or blessing of free access unto god , is the effects of the peace made by jesus christ. . the navigable river , by which we trade to heaven , by virtue of this peace , is opened , viz. the holy spirit is poured forth ; this is that river that makes glad the city of god , &c. and this it doth not only , in that it supplies god's people , or his holy city with water to drink , ( which is indeed water of life ) but also in that it is by it we trade to heaven , all our spiritual trade and traffick , is in and through this river : our trade , my brethren , is a trade of merchandise — for the merchandise of it , is better than the merchandise of silver , and the gain thereof than fine gold. now this river proceeds from the throne of god , and the lamb , and that this river is opened by the sacrifice of christ , or by that peace he hath made : see acts . . this jesus hath god raised up , whereof we are all witnesses — therefore being by the right hand of god exalted , and having received of the father , the promise of the holy ghost , he hath shed forth this , which ye now see and hear , vers. . moreover , jesus christ promised the spirit to his disciples upon his ascention , and this promise he graciously made good ; therefore ( saith the apostle ) being justified by faith , we have peace with god through our lord jesus christ , by whom also we have access by faith into this grace , &c. again he saith , and came and preached peace to you that were a far off , &c. for through him we both have access by one spirit unto the father ; that is , through the mediator and peace-maker , who hath reconciled us to god : we are now admitted or introduced into the presence of the father , and this with boldness ; in whom we have boldness and access with confidence , by the faith of him : and this not only in prayer , but also in all holy fellowship , commerce , and heavenly communion ; having therefore , brethren , boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of jesus : it was the blood of christ that opened this trade , or procured this access to heaven for us , by a new and living way , which he hath consecrated for us through the veil , that is to say , his flesh. hence our blessed lord saith , i am the way , no man cometh to the father but by me . except this river had been opened , we could never have traded to heaven , and that this is done by jesus christ , or by the peace which he hath made , i have thus fully proved . thirdly , i shall shew you that this is the best trade , or there is no trade like unto it in all the world. . because the word of god declares it so to be ; the merchandise hereof is better than the merchandise of silver , and the gain thereof than fine gold. now what merchandise of this world , do men account to excel that of silver and fine gold ? but spiritual merchandise the great god declares , is better than these , or whatsoever else you can think , or speak of . now this i shall further indeavour to make appear in this method following . . in respect of the subject , these merchandises enrich . . in respect of the nature of the things traded in , or for . . in respect of that blessed correspondent , who manages all our affairs in heaven , and that makes us returns of all we venture . . in respect of the terms upon which we trade . . i shall apply the whole — i shall speak briefly to each of these . first , the subject that these merchandises inrich is the soul , the precious and immortal soul of man , which all other trades and merchandise cannot in the least degree relieve the wants of , much less inrich ; but these heavenly merchandises doth this . . it is hereby the soul of a believer , or a spiritual merchant , comes to have god again ; god to be his god , yea , a god in covenant with him , and to be his portion for ever ( as you have heard . ) 't is through jesus christ , or by the peace he hath made , that this blessing is obtained ; god is hereby our father , and christ is our saviour , and the spirit is our sanctifier ; whosoever will venture out by faith , and trade in these seas , or on this voyage , shall obtain a sure interest in christ , and in god through jesus christ for ever . . because this trade answers all the necessities of the soul , or all its wants ; my god shall supply all your need , according to his riches in glory by christ jesus : graciously , nay , gloriously , or according to his own fulness , or rich mercy , or riches in glory . nay , . not only supply the needs of our souls , but these merchandises tend to inrich the soul with grace ; yea , with all grace . this trade , or this merchandise , puts a crown better than that of gold on its head , and chains about its neck ; they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head , and chains about thy neck . this , my brethren , makes the soul amiable and honourable in the sight of god , and all good men ; a meek and quiet spirit is in the sight of god of great price . no other ornaments are of any worth in the esteem of god , but are hateful to him when the creature is lifted up with pride thereby . what are the curled locks , and chains of gold , and glis●●●ing robes in the sight of god ? poor lazarus was far more lovely before his eyes . . because these merchandises inrich the soul with choice and blessed experiences . hence david saith , the law of thy mouth , is better to me than thousands of gold and silver . and again he saith ( speaking of his experiences ) thou hast put gladness into my heart , more than in the time when their corn and wine encreased . one day in thy courts , is better than a thousand — and from hence it is that he cries out , whom have i in heaven but thee ? neith●r is there any on earth i desire besides thee . again , saith he , o taste and see how good the lord is : he is so good , yea , so precious , so sweet in his love and favour , that i am not able to express it , ( as if he should say ) therefore pray taste your selves , and then by experience you will find it to be as i say : solomon also found by experience , this was the best trade ; wisdom is better than gold , and to get vnderstanding , rather to be chosen than silver — yea , better than rubies ; all things that may be desired , are not to be compared to it . solomon had the experience of all other things , he had riches in abundance , honours beyond all men on earth , and pleasures of all sorts , and such wisdom also , which no meer man ever attained to , yet he cries out , vanity of vanity , all things are vanity : doubtless god might let him try the nature of all worldly good , or whatsoever the heart of man could desire , that by him all men might know , even by his experience , the emptiness and vanity of them ; no man ever decry'd the vanity of all things under the sun , more than he did — and in the close of all , by that experience he had , how doth he commend spiritual things , or the merchandise of wisdom , i e. the love and favour of god in christ , or our lord jesus christ himself , whom he sets forth under the name of wisdom . moreover , moses chose rather to trade in these rich and rare commodities than in all the treasures and glories of egypt , or of pharaoh's court ; nay , he esteemed the reproaches of christ greater riches , or much better than all the riches and treasures of egypt , or all the pleasures of sin for a season . also you may take paul's experiences on this account : what says he ? but what things were gain to me , those things i counted loss for christ ; yea , doubtless i account all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of jesus christ my lord ; for whom i have suffered the loss of all things , and do count them but dung , that i may win christ. in his judgment all things in comparison of christ were but as dung , or dogs-meat . o! that every soul that hears me this day , would but endeavour to play such a game as paul did , or get such experiences as he had . . by this trade also , the soul is inriched with all the promises of god , precious promises , exceeding great and precious promises ; whereby are given unto us , exceeding great and precious promises : whereby , that is through the knowledge of god in christ ; that by these ye may be partakers of the divine nature . those promises by which we partake of the nature , or image of god , must needs greatly inrich the soul , it is by and through them we attain to an impress of the divine nature , or divine qualities and dispositions , as knowledge , righteousness , mercy , goodness , holiness , &c. they are full promises , suitable promises , suited to every condition , and seasonable promises , and also sure and certain promises . . because this trade inriches both the soul and body too , they that drive this trade in a right manner shall have their vile body changed and made in likeness to christ's glorious body , and be crowned with glory for evermore . . this trade , through faith in jesus christ , gives the soul full satisfaction , it fills it with joy and comfort ; for as hereby we come to have a likeness to god , so also to have communion with god and jesus christ , it is therefore a most sweet and honourable calling ; it makes us happy while we live , and happy at death also : thus , in respect of the subject , these merchandises do inrich , it appears it is the best trade in all the earth . secondly , this will further appear , by considering of the nature of the things about which the soul spiritually trades . i. they are things of great worth , riches , or of an inestimable value . this appears , . in respect of the great price by which they were bought , which was the blood of jesus christ , they cost an infinite sum of rich treasure , pet. . , . who would not highly account of things bought with such a price , and part with all things for them , as paul did ? the merchant-man sold all he had , and bought the pearl of great price ; the redemption of the soul is precious , &c. that which is most costly , is commonly most preferred . my brethren , jesus christ did not over-buy them , he never repented that he laid down so great a price to purchase them for us . o costly ware ! ( saith one ) o dear bought goods ! for which the pearl of great price went. will you not value those things highly which the son of god bought with his own heart's blood ? . they are heavenly things , heavenly riches : what are the nature of all earthly things to heavenly things ? alas , god gives the things of this world to his enemies , to such that hate him : what said luther of all the turkish empire , it was but a crust that god casts to a dog. brethren , we shall never fully know the worth and nature of heavenly things till we come to heaven . . they are incorruptible things , ( and things that thieves can't steal ) and things that corrupt not , perish not , they are not the worse for keeping , their nature changes not , all other things perish in the using ; and as our lord shews , moth and rust corrupteth them : but god is unchangable , and christ is the same yesterday to day , and for ever : the word of god is incorruptible , which liveth and abideth for ever . . they are vnsearchable riches , no finding out perfectly either the quality , or quantity of this vast mine of rich treasure , to me who am less than the least of all saints , is this grace given : that i should preach among the gentiles , the vnsearchable riches of christ : what are the spanish gold mines , or the riches of mexico or potosi , to christ's riches . mines of gold may be exhausted , or such that have those mines may be poor , as the spaniard is . brethren , millions of millions live upon christ , yet his treasure is full , the riches of christ are permanent , abiding riches , with me are durable riches and righteousness . . the riches procured by this covenant in this trade , are not only soul-satisfying , but also soul-fatening riches ; eat that which is good , and let your soul delight it self in fatness : these were those riches that satisfied divine justice , and appeased divine wrath , and that quiets a guilty and wounded conscience ; they fill the soul , faten the soul ; they shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house , and thou shalt make them drink of the rivers of thy pleasures — they shall be fat and flourishing , &c. . they are certain riches , the riches of this world are called vncertain riches , they make themselves wings and fly away : besides , they will not avail in the day of wrath , they will stand in no stead then , nor any ways profit the wretched sinner at death , nor in the judgment day — but godliness is profitable for all things , 't is great gain , every ways profitable , at all times , in all states , and profitable to the soul and body too . . the things that believers trade in , are the best things of heaven , the best things of god , he has no better things to bestow , as you have heard , all good is comprehended in these riches ; and hence these things are only given to his own people , to his beloved ones , as a pledge of his eternal and special favour in christ. what exceeds himself ? his son , his spirit , his love , his grace , his peace , peace with god , peace of conscience , and joy in the holy ghost , and eternal happiness in heaven ? . they are eternal things ; the things that are seen are temporal , but the things that are not seen , they are eternal . these are everlasting wares , you shall carry them out of the world with you ; these things have i spoken , that my joy might remain in you , and that your joy might be full . o! what a trade by this peace is opened to believers ? thirdly , this is the best trade in respect of our blessed correspondent whom we trade with , or who manages all our affairs at the court of heaven ; namely , jesus christ. i. consider that the father hath put the management of all our affairs into christ's hands as our great trustee : moreover every true believer has committed himself and all his concerns to jesus christ ; the poor committeth himself unto thee . ii. consider his power , he is the king of heaven and earth , all power is given to me in heaven and earth , he is the mighty god , this made paul say , for i know whom i have believed , and i am perswaded that he is able to keep that which i have committed unto him against that day . i have committed my self to him , my soul to him , my life and all i have , and hope to receive , to him ; and i doubt not of his power and ability to keep it . iii. consider of his faithfulness , other correspondents oftentimes deceive and prove unfaithful stewards , but jesus christ is faithful , he never failed any one poor soul that truly trusted in him ; god is faithful , and christ is called , a faithful high priest , &c. iv. consider of that great price he gave for all those things which we trade with him for : moreover , and that he bought them for us , and has opened a blessed and sure way of conveyance of them ; and besides , he hath obliged himself by covenant to give them down to us as we need them . v. consider of that relation believers stand in to him , and of his infinite love and affections to them ; he trades , or intercedes for his friends , ( for such he ransomed with his own blood ) for his spouse whom he hath betroathed to himself for ever . vi. consider what returns he makes , some venture much , and that which is great in worth , but hardly sometimes have returns of the full intrinsical value again , but thus doth not jesus christ deal with us . first , christ makes great and vast returns . . to appoint them that mourn in sion , to give them beauty for ashes : beauty , especially spiritual beauty is a precious thing , but what are ashes worth ? what are our duties ? our fastings and prayer and humiliations ? why , of no more worth then a little ashes ? yet here is beauty returned for ashes ; yea , beauty on the soul , glorious beauty ! . and the oyl of joy for mourning ; we mourn and weep for our sins ; well , and pray what are a few tears good for ? are these of any worth in themselves ? no certainly : yet christ makes returns of the oyl of joy for this mourning , or in lieu of these tears , even the holy spirit which fills the soul with joy and comfort . . and the garment of praise , for the spirit of heaviness : christ approves of sadness of heart that rises from that sense we have of that unworthiness that is in us , and of that dishonour which is done to him ; but how little worth is there in this heaviness , as in it self ? but he returns the garment of praise ; i. e. he cloaths the soul in beautiful garments ; all these expressions shew , that whatsoever we receive is in a way of free grace , and that there is no worth in our duties ; and also that christ in a way of grace , will make blessed returns : my brethren , rewards of meer grace are far greater than those of debt , as i have often told you . but further . . he that gives , or ventures a cup of cold water to a disciple , in the name of a disciple , shall not lose his reward . this is a small thing indeed , yet here is a great return for this , when given to a right object , and to a right end ; and if he that gives , or ventures a cup of cold water , has such returns , what shall he have that ventures his all , yea , his very life ? . and every one that hath forsaken houses , or brethren , or sisters , or father and mother , or wife , or children , or lands for my name sake , shall receive an hundred fold , now at this time — and in the world to come eternal life . an hundred fold is a wonderful return , as when a man that ventures one pound to sea , to india , or to any other place , and receives a hundred pounds in lieu of it , 't is a mighty return ; but this is more in quantity , and better in quality , and that in this life ; an hundred fold here , and a crown of glory in the life to come : who would not trade with such a correspondent , or not enter into such a calling ? will you not this day become spiritual merchants ? what do you say ? ii. he will fill our treasures , and that with riches and honours , yea , with durable riches and righteousness : that i may cause them that love me to inherit substance , and i will fill their treasures . iii. he hath promised to return glory in heaven , for sufferings on earth ; for i reckon the sufferings of this present time not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us : let us weigh one against the other , and see what a vast difference there is : for our light afflictions that are but for a moment , work for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . but did i say these returns are for what we venture ? no , no ; not for , but in venturing , in keeping christ's precepts , there is an exceeding great reward : for all returns are in a way of free grace , 't is a free trade . . without money , and without price , without money or monies worth . we trade for nothing , receive nothing for what we had , or give for it as you have heard . 't is true , buying denotes our parting with something that is our own , that we may have that we want : but what is ours which we must part with ? is it of any worth ? we must ( . ) part with all our sins , evil courses , evil habits , and old companions . ( . ) with our old hopes of heaven . ( . ) our own righteousness in respect of trust and dependance : and what is that but filthy rags ? we have nothing to part with but cursed filth and pollution . . sirs , whatsoever you have which is good , it is his own ; of thine own have we given thee , saith david . 't is true , we must give him the glory of our external and internal riches ; gifts , grace , righteousness , but this is but to give him what is his own ; if thou art righteous , what givest thou him ? or what receiveth he at thine hand ? . he gave us grace from whence our tears of sorrow proceeded : christ reaps nothing but what he first sowed ; it was his grace , his spirit that broke our hearts ; it was his spirit that created faith , love , hope , humility , &c. in us ; we only trade with christ's money . secondly , christ makes sure returns , certain returns . . they that sow in tears , shall reap in joy. again he saith , your labour shall not be in vain in the lord. . christ is our great insurer , he keeps an insuring office in heaven , and hath ingaged his faithfulness and holiness to make us sure and certain returns ; you shall not go forth weeping , but he assures you that you shall return rejoycing , and bring your sheaves with you . thirdly , jesus christ makes quick returns . . nay , we sometimes meet with returns ( when 't is in our hearts to trade with him ) before we venture out in trading ; before they call , i will answer ; and whilst they are yet speaking , i will hear . object . but sometimes we do not presently receive what we ask of god in christ's name . ans. god answers us sometimes , tho not in that manner , or in that thing we request of him , yet he gives us that which he sees is better for us . . he gives us always quickly , or right early , that is , when he sees the fruit is ripe and good for us , or in the proper season ; vnripe fruit is not good , 't is hurtful you know . . when we are fit to receive the mercy desired , and know how to improve it to his glory and our profit , then we shall have it ; and would you have it sooner ? . he may forbear sometimes to give us what we ask , because we ask amiss , or to try our faith , love , patience , &c. but god must be judge , and not we , of what is best for us , and of the time when given to us also . application . . bless christ for the covenant of peace , upon the account it opens such a happy trade , or procures for us such free access to god. . we infer that sinners are wofully blind , that so few will study this trade , they will not trade to heaven , nor deal in spiritual things . ( . ) satan has blinded their minds . and ( . ) the world is got into their hearts ; they are for present things , for sensual things , sensual pleasures , profits , honours . ( . ) they know not the way how to trade , christ is the way , but they know him not ; they will trade in forbidden goods , even with their own money , &c. they think by their tears , by their repentance , by their own faith , righteousness and obedience , to procure all things they want , even both justification , and eternal life . . train up your children in this trade , labour to instruct them into the knowledge of jesus christ , bring them up in the way that they should go . . this also reproves such that grow weary of this holy calling , or that decay , or waste their stock , and grow poorer and poorer every day . ( . ) the price of heavenly commodities are fallen in their esteem , prayer , reading , meditation , christian converse , church communion , peace with god , and peace of conscience too is but of little worth now with them . ( . ) their faith is low , their love to christ , his truth and people is decay'd , their heat of zeal is gone . ( . ) they are but little at home , do not watch their own hearts , or are more abroad to find faults in others , and spying the moat that is in their brother's eye . quest. can 't men break , that follow this trade ? answ. false traders , false professors may ; nay , will break , and come to nothing . ( . ) they set up without a stock ; i mean , without true saving grace . ( . ) they trade with their own money , or have confidence in the flesh , and trust in their own strength , which had almost undone peter . ( . ) they are far in debt , and see not the way of coming out ; they do not see that all their debts are paid by jesus christ. ( . ) they trade not alone in christ's name , nor are they strong in the grace that is in christ jesus . ( . ) they look one way and row another , look heavenward , but their hearts are earthly . ( . ) they prize earthly riches above heavenly things ; so that 't is no wonder if these break , but no true christian , i have proved , can ever break , or be undone . . be exhorted to trade for heaven , and to buy of christ ; buy of me gold tried in the fire , &c. — buy the truth and sell it not : do not only cheapen his wares , but resolve to buy : do you not love gold ? o! buy presently , you hear how , without money : what , are all things here free ? and yet do you not like the terms ? alas , proud man would fain pay for all he has , this plague reigns amongst those of this generation . directions to trade to heaven . ( . ) trade with god by christ , make use of this blessed correspondent , come to god by him , or you will get nothing , obtain nothing ; hitherto you have ask'd nothing in my name ; and therefore received no more . ( . ) know and be assured , that by the peace christ has made , you may freely trade and come to god , but be sure see , that 't is in faith you come to him , or you will never speed ; plead the absolute promises . ( . ) observe the motions of the spirit , mariners set out with the wind and tide , so must you , the wind blows where it listeth : god's spirit will not always strive with men. ( . ) mind the exchange-time , merchants will not fail here : o! see you do not neglect god's publick worship ; no , lose not one opportunity , if it be possible ; one neglect in this case had almost ruined thomas : when ministers preach , you ought to hear ; nay , you must hear . ( . ) be sure you keep up closet prayer , much of this spiritual trade lies in this duty ; also you must labour to pray in faith , and also fervently , cold prayers will never prevail with god. ( . ) keep up your acquaintance with jesus christ , you that are believers see to this ; and you that are sinners see that you get union with him , acquaint thy self with him , and be at peace , thereby good shall come to thee ; without union there can be no communion with christ : brethren , here is great complaint of badness of trade , may be 't is a judgment , because this trade is slighted , or so much neglected : o! remember this is your general calling , and it must have the perferance , whatever business is neglected , this must not : how did god blast the jews in trading , because his house lay waste ? they minded not this trade . also know the more you venture the greater returns you will have , the more you do or suffer for christ , the greater your reward of grace will be ; they that turn many to righteousness , shall shine as the stars for evermore : there are no doubt degrees of glory in heaven . quest. who are rich traders , rich christians ? answ. all believers are rich , yet some are richer than others , richer in faith , love , and holiness than others . ( . ) they that can trust most , are rich dealers , the poor you know can't trust , they live upon their labour , so some too much fetch their comforts from their liveliness in duties , and lively frames , or from their own labour , but this is not to live by faith , but such are rich that can trust , or believe , tho they with thomas see and feel not . ( . ) such that are rich live high , they keep a noble table ; i mean , eat the fat and drink the sweet of the ordinances and of the promises ; and also they dwell above , they dwell on high , or enjoy blessed communion with the father and the son. ( . ) they that are spiritually poor , poor in their own eyes , are rich ; i know thy poverty , but thou art rich. ( . ) such that are more heavenly than others , are the richest saints . ( . ) such that are most rich in good works . ( . ) such that can best bear burdens , when taxes or burdens are laid on poor men , they can't bear them , but the rich can . ( . ) commonly the rich are envied ; so satan and wicked men envy such christians that are most rich , thieves seldom beset a poor man's house ; the more thou art tempted , o soul ! the greater sign it is that thou art rich . ( . ) rich men feed others , they feed the poor ; so such that are rich in grace , and experiences , feed other christians ; the lips of the righteous feed many . ( . ) the rich are better cloathed and adorned than others ; so rich believers are more holy , more humble , meek and lowly than others are : but i cannot enlarge on these things , but must leave what i have said to the blessing of god. sermon xiv . opening the nature of the peace made by vertue of this covenant . isa. liv. x. neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed , saith the lord that hath mercy on thee . i am this day to conclude with this great subject : the last thing i told you , that i should do , was to open the nature of that peace , which is made by vertue of this covenant : the method i shall take in speaking unto this , shall be , first , to give you a short summary account of what we have said , as to what is requisite to this peace with god , &c. secondly , shew you the nature of this peace . thirdly , apply the whole we have said on this subject . first , i have shewed you that jesus christ alone , is the great peace-maker between god and man. i. you have heard that we can have no peace with god , until he is reconciled , and this christ has done ; god in christ is reconciled , his justice is satisfied , and his wrath by christ's obedience and sacrifice is appeased . ii. sinners must also ( we have shewed you ) be reconciled to god ; we pray you in christ's stead , be ye reconciled to god. tho sinners peace may be made with god , by jesus christ , yet that peace may not be accepted of by them , or they may not be reconciled to him ; true , we have proved that jesus christ undertook to do both these for all god's elect ; ( as hath again and again been hinted . ) . you have heard that christ died on the cross , so making peace by satisfying divine justice . . he also , as our blessed high-priest , sprinkles that blood upon our consciences , i mean , applies the vertue of it to our souls : by the first act he removes all obstacles out of god's way , and by the second he removes all obstacles out of the sinner's way ; so that the reconciliation becomes mutual . now that which is requisite on the sinner's part , in order to peace and reconciliation to god. . is that his eyes be opened to see his wretched state and condition by nature , i. e. that he is a sinner , an enemy to god , a rebel ; yea , a cursed and condemned creature in the first adam — yet , . that god in christ is well pleased ( or as i have shewn ) is reconciled by his wrath-appeasing sacrifice , as the way , means , or meritorious cause thereof ; and that that enmity which is naturally in the sinner's heart , must be removed also . . he must believe , or come to christ , resting alone upon him for justification , pardon , peace , and eternal life ; being convinced there is no other way to obtain these blessings but by him only . . and the grace of god being thus poured forth upon the soul by the spirit , faith is wrought in him to look to jesus christ ; and so seeing and admiring the rich bounty , pardon , and unwordable clemency of his offended and provoked soveraign , this works repentance , or godly sorrow for sin in every such person ; by which means he mourns , and is more or less in great bitterness of spirit , in beholding how hateful sin is to god , and also what sorrows his sins brought upon his blessed saviour . hence it is called , a mourning for him , zech. . . for saith the soul , now i see that my sins crucified my dear lord , and let out his hearts blood ; and thus was my peace made . . upon this the believing and sin-loathing sinner resolves to lay down his arms , and never any more to fight against god. shall i ( saith he ) thus receive a free pardon of all my by-past treasons , sins , and rebellion against my most gracious sovereign , refuse to lay down my arms ? — shall i continue in sin , because grace has abounded , god forbid ? brethren , if grace be infused into the sinner's heart , it will teach him to deny all vngodliness , and worldly lusts : and not only to deny it , to leave it , but also to loath it ; it changes the mind : yet repentance is not the condition of peace with god , but an effect of it , or of christ's merit , a broken heart being one promise in the covenant . . a sinner hath not , cannot , have actual interest in the blessings of this covenant , or have peace in his own soul , without union with christ , which is accomplished by the holy spirit , and faith of the operation of god first of all , whereby it is , that the soul is transplanted out of the first adam , that dead stock into the second adam that quickning spirit . moreover know that the real and relative change is at one and the same time ; and certainly all that deny that there is a change of state , as well as a change of heart , err exceedingly . ( . ) because the word of god positively declares , that by nature the elect are children of wrath , as well as others ; therefore more than under wrath in their own conscience ; for in their own consciences they may not apprehend they are the children of wrath before they believe ; ) faith also must be somewhat more than an evidence , the soul having that in its actual possession , which it had not before . ( . ) because they that believe , god says , are passed from death to life ; that is , from a state of death and condemnation , into a state of life and justification : see joh. . . joh. . . ( . ) because the holy spirit in convictions , represents the state of an elect sinner to himself , to be before grace wretched and miserable , who is a true and faithful witness , and cannot lie . brethren , as the first adam , and all in him were condemned by the pronunciation of the sentence of the holy god in paradise ; so the second adam , or all his , or all in him , are for ever justified : and as whilst we remain in the first adam , his first sin is imputed to us , so not till we are in christ is his righteousness to our actual and personal justification imputed to us , tho i grant foederally and representatively in christ it was imputed before to all the elect ; yet 't is through the reception of grace , or the infusion of the spirit , whereby faith is wrought , that the soul receives the atonement , and comes actually possessed with the blessing of peace ; the god of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing — there is no peace to the wicked , saith my god : and this because they have not an actual interest in christ — where the spirit of christ is , there is liberty , and therefore peace , and in none else . — . and thus the sinner is brought to god , ( and comes to be taken into the covenant of grace ) the which the spirit doth renew and confirm in his baptism , rom. . , , , , . and which is further renewed and confirmed to him in the holy ordinance of the lord's supper , which is a sign or pledge of the new covenant , in or by christ's blood. hence called , the new covenant in his blood. . moreover let it be noted , that a man may be in a state of grace and peace , and yet not know it ; all that have faith , or do believe , do not know they have faith , or believe , but have doubts about it , joh. . . all injoy not what they have in possession ; therefore true faith , as to the essence thereof , cannot be a simple evidence to the soul of what it hath , nor a full perswasion that christ is mine and i am his ; for if so , then he that has not this evidence , or assurance , is no true believer , or if he lose it , he loses the very essence of faith , and so ceases to be a believer . moreover , it would then follow , that there are no weak believers , or babes in christ , for every babe must be a strong man , were it thus : for is not he a strong christian that has a clear evidence of his justification , and a full assurance of eternal life ? . there is no steady and full injoyment of this spiritual peace , without keeping up and maintaining a war against sin ; also this war is maintained by every faculty ; the whole soul being united in carrying it on , and also against every sin. moreover it is a war in which the soul by the spirit prevails ; sin shall not have dominion over you , &c. 't is a resolute war , or carried on with uttermost revenge against sin , and likewise always , even to the end of our days ; and if called to it , to resist unto blood , striving against sin. all , my brethren , that have peace with god , or are reconciled to him , are at war with sin , satan , and the world , resolving never to be reconciled to these enemies , or be at peace with one sin whilst they live . . our peace , as to the degree of it , as in our selves is , and will be according to that degree or measure of our faith we have , a weak and doubting believer , hath but little peace in his own conscience , he being too subject to ground his peace on his good and lively frame , or to judge of his justification by the degrees of his sanctification , or inherent holiness , tho the state of the weakest christian , is as safe as the strongest , yet he has not that peace and comfort others have . but no more as to this , secondly , i shall open the nature of this peace . . it is peace with god , the mighty god , god is hereby become our friend , all enmity or wrath in god against the soul is gone for ever , and all enmity that was in the soul against god , is removed or taken away also , there being a mutual peace and reconciliation ; i do not say god can no more be offended with the soul , but if he be , yet he will not be provoked to wrath , or to let out his against such a person any more for ever . . all the actings of god towards his people , are in love , tho the poor believer , perhaps , cannot see it thus , but fears the contrary : my brethren , god receives us into his intire affections , and le ts out his love and bowels towards us , and acts always towards us as a tender father to his children . we hereby enter actually into a league with god , god takes the soul into an everlasting covenant of peace , and the soul also takes god to be his god in the same everlasting covenant , as you have heard , which covenant all the powers of hell and darkness can never break or violate , the peace and union with christ in this covenant , is indissolvable ; the covenant of my peace shall not be removed , saith the lord : tho we may sin , yet god will blot them all out , sin , nor satan , nor the world , nor life , nor death , neither any thing else can separate us from the love of god , which is in christ jesus our lord ; their sins and iniquities i will remember no more : all the attributes of god are for us , and no accusation of satan , can provoke god against us , so as to become our enemy : true , sin or satan may spoil the sensible peace and comfort of our souls , but they cannot spoil our peace with god , or break our union . . it is soul-peace , spiritual peace : o! how great , how sweet and precious is that peace ? earthly peace , national peace , congregational peace , and family peace is good and to be prized : but what is any kind of peace to true spiritual soul peace ? as no trouble , no sorrow is like soul-trouble , so no peace is to be compared to soul-peace ; great peace have they that love thy law , and nothing shall offend them . . such have peace also with the holy angels ; the angels of god are at peace with them that god is at peace with , they are hereby become our friends , and take our part , and fight for us , and against the devil our grand enemy ; they war against the evil angels , who hate and envy us ; and they minister unto them that shall be heirs of salvation ; nay , the angels of god encamp round about them that fear him . they also war against our external enemies : yea , against all gods enemies , and our enemies , and fight for our friends . . 't is such a peace that reconciles a man to himself : before a man's heart was divided , one faculty was set against another , the vnderstanding , perhaps , was inlightened , and the will opposed the vnderstanding , also conscience perhaps terrified the man , because he sinned against the light and dictates thereof ; a man's judgment , ( like balaam's may declare for god , and cry out ; how goodly are thy tents , o jacob ? and thy tabernacles , o israel ? ) but his love and affections may run out after the wages of vnrighteousness , as balaam's did : a man before grace wars against himself , but grace unites all the faculties of the soul , and sets them all against sin , and on god's side ; all inward tumults now cease , nothing is a greater sign of true conversion , my brethren , than this ; i. e. when the whole heart is united to god and godliness . . it is a wonderful , or inconceivable peace ; it passeth all understanding ; the peace of god that passeth all vnderstanding , shall keep your hearts and minds through christ jesus . this may not simply refer to peace of conscience , but to that peace made with god by jesus christ , we cannot conceive of the excellent nature thereof ; nay , that which is received and inwardly injoyed , is unexpressible at some times ; nothing shall offend such who possess it — it is called joy , unspeakable , and full of glory . . it is perfect peace ; thou wilt keep him in perfect peace , whose mind is stayed upon thee , because he trusteth in thee . it is the same as to its nature , with that peace the saints possess in heaven , it is heavenly peace . . it is peace joyned with joy in the holy ghost : it is thus when this peace rules in the heart , or a believer possesseth it in the highest decree . . it is a peace that opens a blessed trade to heaven : hereby as you have heard we have free access to the father , heaven is opened , by this peace , and christ's treasures of grace and glory are free to all believers , to all spiritual merchants , and holy traders ; but you must set out with full sails of faith , and with a sweet gale of the spirit , and then you will return well freighted , your ship shall be loaden with the rich merchandise of heaven , being filled with peace , joy , and consolation . . it is a peace that opens the way to communion with god : hereby we come to have the honour to walk with god , as enoch did three hundred years ; can two walk together except they are agreed ? can they friendly converse , and have communion together till then ? no , surely : hereby we also come to dwell with god and jesus christ ; nay , and to sit with christ in heavenly places ; christ and believers daily visit one another , yea , and god opens hereby his secrets to us , and we have also the sweet kisses of christ's mouth , and are imbraced by him , and lie as it were in his bosom . moreover , god is hereby become our refuge , our defence , our protector , our guard , and only safety in the day of trouble . . it is that great legacy christ bequeathed to all his disciple ; my peace i leave with you , my peace i give to you , &c. 't is peace the world knows not of , can neither give it , nor take it away . . 't is everlasting peace , peace like a river , and it will abide to eternal ages ; nay , and it will increase and be much greater , but never cease , read my text. . to sum up all : all sorts of peace are comprehended in this peace . ( . ) peace with god. ( . ) peace of conscience . ( . ) peace with angels . ( . ) peace with your selves . ( . ) peace with saints , ( jews and gentiles by this peace were made both one ) that is , all the elect among them . ( . ) congregational peace , christ purchased this peace , and requires us to possess it : have salt in your selves , and be at peace one with another : and o how lovely a thing is this . ( . ) family peace , relative peace ; before grace , may be the husband and wife lived in war with each other ; and the parents and children , and masters and servants , might quarel with one another , but grace reconciles all together in love. true , christ says , he came not to bring peace , but a sword ; that is , he foresaw this would be the effect of his coming , and where he is received and one is converted , and the other not , the unconverted raises oftentimes war , but when that person is changed , and has peace with god , that war ceases also . ( . ) national and external peace is comprehended in this peace likewise ; all nations shall have peace , as the effect of the covenant of peace ; yea , and all the saints shall be united together in love , and sweet concord , and tho this is not yet fulfilled yet , christ's kingdom is at the door , and it will be a peacable kingdom , the church shall then have outward and inward peace like a river ; he will also make wars to cease , to the ends of the earth — of his government and peace there shall be no end — and they shall beat their swords into plow-shares , and their spears into pruning hooks : nation shall not lift up sword against nation , neither shall they learn war any more . o be ready ! look out , for those happy days are very nigh . read the words after my text , vers. , , . and all thy children shall be taught of the lord , and great shall be the peace of thy children , vers . . in righteousness shalt thou be established , and thou shalt be far from oppression ; thou shalt not fear , and from terror , for it shall not come near thee , vers . compare this with isa. . , , , . i will extend peace to her like a river , and the glory of the gentiles like a flowing stream . brethren , babylon must fall before these prophsies are fulfilled : o cry therefore to god to hasten his judgments upon that bloody whore , that sion's glory and peace may be manifested , and all sighings and sorrow fly away : and then these words shall be fulfilled , viz. and the work of righteousness shall be peace , and the effects of righteousness , quietness , and assurance for ever ; and my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation , and in sure dwellings , and in quiet resting places , isa. . , . the general application . i. from hence we may infer , that there is a great mystery in reconciliation , yea , and we may well stand and admire the wisdom and goodness of god , in respect of that peace we receive in and by jesus christ. ii. we may infer also from hence , that god the father is the principal author and spring of this reconciliation , or way of our peace ; he was the contriver , and first mover in those acts , whereby the first foundation-stone was laid ; god was in christ reconciling the world to himself — all things are of god , &c. that is , of god the father , and through jesus christ , &c. it is to raise his glory , as well as the glory of christ , and of the holy spirit ; therefore let him primarily have the honour of our peace and salvation . o how did love and bowels move towards us in the heart of god the father from everlasting ? iii. exhort . also be exhorted to prize and highly esteem of the lord jesus christ , from what you have heard concerning the covenant ; because christ is the sum of the covenant ; i will give thee for a covenant to the people . . christ is originally and fundamentally the covenant , saith a worthy writer , he is the original root , out of which this covenant sprang , and he is the foundation upon which it is grounded ; behold , i say , in zion , for a foundation , a stone , a tried stone , a precious corner stone , a sure foundation , &c. god fixt his eye on christ , and entered into covenant with him , he is the foundation stone of this covenant ; had there not been a mediator found , there had been no covenant of peace ever made , nor any redemption for poor sinners . . when it was first revealed , it was expressed by his person , viz. the seed of the woman , nothing else is mentioned there , yet this contains the first revelation of this covenant to fallen man : and what was the covenant of grace as revealed to abraham , but jesus christ ; in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed . thus christ is represented as the sum of the covenant . . christ is the covenant primarily ( as the same author notes ) and by propriety ; as fire is hot for it self , and all things hot for it , and by participation : with christ the covenant was made as the chief party ; with believers it was made in subordination to him ; with him it was made at first hand , with us at second hand . now , brethren , this certainly is true , therefore all promises were made first to christ , and first fulfilled to him , and all acts of god's love terminate first upon him , and come to us through him , who has made us accepted in the beloved : had not god's love been fixt first on him as mediator , it had never run out to us ; all covenant-blessings are in him ; blessed be god the father of our lord jesus christ , who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in christ jesus . christ , as our head , is the repository , or seat of all divine blessings . christ is the jewel , the riches , or the sum of all things in the covenant , as life , righteousness , pardon , peace , &c. and he that receives this jewel , receives all things with him . from hence he is compared to a cluster of camphire . . jesus christ ( saith the same author ) is the covenant eminently , because he is the chief blessing of the covenant ; there is not such another promise in all the bundle of promises contained in the covenant ; if thou knowest the gift of god , &c. christ is the gift of god ; yet certainly our author forgot that god the father , and the holy ghost are given as well as christ in the covenant ; but when christ is given , god the father and the holy spirit is given ; he that has the son , has the father also : all other things in the covenant are ( saith he ) but as the garnish of this jewel . . christ is the covenant virtually , he is the just value of all the bargain ; he is of as much worth , as all that is promised : if you would know the worth of the covenant , consider the worth of jesus christ. moreover , my brethren , they that have christ , have all that is promised in the covenant . . jesus christ purchased all that good which is in the covenant ; when we say , god is our god , we must say , he is our god in christ , or by christ , or through his redemption and procurement . . christ is the covenant comprehensively , or summarily ; he is the very compound or abridgment of the covenant ; he is the whole covenant by way of stipulation on our part , &c. . jesus christ is the only way of conveyance of all covenant blessings , through whom we receive all we need , or that is communicaed unto us . moreover , the tender of the covenant , and interest in it , is contained in the free tender of christ , and interest in him : get christ , be but in christ , and thou art in the covenant . sirs , when god gives christ to a sinner , the whole covenant is performed to that person , and he that receives not jesus christ , shall never have one saving benefit or blessing thereof . and thus may christ be called the covenant — but iv. from hence also we may infer the wonderful worth that there is in the blood of christ — it is not only precious blood in respect had unto his person whose blood it is , viz. the eternal son of god ; but also in respect of that atonement it hath made , and that wrath it has appeased , and that peace it has procured , and in regard of those infinite blessings and priviiedges it hath merited for us , and that precious soul it sanctifies . o prize this blood ! what will become of them that contemn and slight this blood — and the vertue and efficacy that is in it ? or account it as the blood of another man , or as an unholy and unprofitable thing , it had been better for such if they had never been born. v. we may moreover from hence see the absolute necessity there is of the work and office of the holy spirit , in order to the application of the blood of the covenant , and all covenant blessings unto us : the holy ghost deserves ( my brethren ) equal glory with the father and the son. the holy spirit must plant grace in our hearts , or be a vital principle in the soul ; it is he which infuses sacred habits , from whence all vital acts proceed ; by the spirit we come to have the root of the matter in us , from whence all spiritual fruit flows ; 't is the spirit that draws us to christ , that unites our souls to him , without it the death of christ profits no man , it is he which sprinkles his blood on our consciences . o let our mediations swim in the unlimited ocean of love and divine goodness , and magnifie all the three persons of the blessed trinity . vi. we may furthermore learn from hence to see what absolute necessity there is of the revelation of this mystery through the word or holy gospel , what signifies all natural religion , doth naturally light in man , discover any thing of our redemption and reconciliation by jesus christ : and from hence let us be moved to abhor those new and cursed notions , which at this day so much prevail , which tend to raze the very foundation of the true christian religion ; for such that contemn all revealed religion , contemn the christian religion . from hence also vii . we may perceive the necessity of true and saving faith , and likewise the excellency thereof ; no man is possessed of this peace that has not the faith of god's elect ; he that believeth not , is condemned already — and shall be damned , unless he believes in jesus christ : also you may hereby see what a strong ground here is for our faith and comfort . from hence also we may see the cause why the holy angels pry into this mystery ; this love and grace of god to mankind , they bow down to look into these things , yea , look with admiration ; and shall not we admire it , who are more especially concerned herein ? ix . sinners be exhorted ( from the considerations of the whole ) to labour and strive to receive jesus christ — ( and let such of you who think and hope you have received him , try your selves by what you have heard ; ) o , be exhorted to know in this your day the things which belong to your peace , before they are hid from your eyes , luke . . x. believers , see that you labour after a strong faith in christ , and in the covenant ; for the measure of your peace , will be according to the measure and degree of your faith. o get a great faith , and then your peace will not be little , but like a river , yea , wonderfully abound in you . xi . tryal . let all that hear me this day , try themselves , examine themselves , whether they have peace with god , or not ? take a few rules to try your selves . . are you at war with sin ? is sin cast out of your love and affections ? is there an unreconcilable opposition made in you against all sin ? and as it is sin , do you loath and hate it , because it is hateful to god , and hath exposed your blessed saviour to so much pain , shame , sorrow and suffering , even to let out his most precious blood ? . do you mourn for sin , because it caused such cursed enmity in your hearts against god , causing your souls to rebel against him , yea , to hate and despise him in your hearts ? . are you reconciled to the ways of god , even to the strictest acts and duties of holiness ? do you love the word of god because of its purity ? . do you love all the people of god , and are you reconciled to those , ( who may in many things differ from you ? ) do you pray for them , and hate all bitterness ; and forbear all reproachful language and sensorious reflections ? dare any reproach and speak against their father's children ? thou sitest and speakest against thy brother , and slandrest thine own mothers son. it is thy deliberate practice and business ( as if god should say ) thus to do : 't is to be feared , that such are not at peace with god , that are not at peace with all the children of god : he that saith he is in the light , and hateth his brother , is in darkness until now — we know that we are passed from death unto life , because we love the brethren ; he that loveth not his brother abideth in death . therefore let such tremble that are not at peace with all those who have peace with god. . do you mourn for such whom you love , even for your brethren , your kinsfolk , your neighbours that are not yet reconciled unto him ? see rom. . , . . do you love , esteem , and highly respect and honour the ambassadors of peace , and cannot endure to hear them reviled and unjustly slandered and spoken against ? . have you peace in your own consciences , and peace in your families ? and do you live peaceably in the church of god ? and also strive as much as in you is , to be at peace with all men ? . do you long for the peace of jerusalem , and pray for her peace , for that peace which is promised to her in the last days ? christ hath purchased universal peace for his church ; not only internal peace , but external peace also , not only peace within , but peace without ; not only peace with god , but peace with men also , and the day is near he will give his people intire and universal peace . caution . let none mistake me in any thing i have delivered in any of these sermons about god's being reconciled in christ , &c. so as to think he is at peace , reconciled , and well pleased with the elect , whilst they remain in a state of enmity against him , being vile and notorious sinners : god can't but hate sin whereever it is , and loath the unrenewed . sinner , when he looks upon them as in the first adam , or as in their filthiness , for as such he hates and loaths them , but as he looks upon any persons in christ , so he loves them , and is at peace , and well pleased with them ; god sees not as man sees , for he sees a man condemned and justified at one and the same time ; nay , as being in this world , and yet as being in the world to come , but whatever sight of things , or of persons god hath , or how we are lookt upon and justified in his sight in christ , is one thing , and what the state of persons are ( or what things and persons may be said to be ) as they actually are , or when they actually exist , ( or in a proper sense and acceptation ) is another thing ; for it is ridiculous to say , that a man in a proper sense is actually or personally condemned and justified , dead and yet alive at one and the same time , or is in the first adam , and yet in the second , or in a state of wrath , and yet in a state of grace , at one and the same moment : nay , and dangerous it is for any to say , that a wicked man whilst he is so , is an object of god's delight , or that such a person is actually justified , and that god is at peace , and well pleased with him , it being so directly contrary to the testimony of god's word , and the witness of the divine spirit . the sum therefore of what i say and mean is this : when i say god in christ is reconciled to sinners , viz. god having chosen his elect in christ from eternity , was reconciled to them in him as the way and means of the procurement of their peace , or of their recovery out of the fall , or out of their lapsed state foreseen by him ; but to say he was actually reconciled to them , personally considered from eternity * , or from the death of christ , seems absurd and improper : for how could he be said to be reconciled to this or that person , before that person had any personal existencies , or being ; or if they had a being , yet were enemies to him , and loathsome wretches , and under his denounced wrath , and curse , and in which state they remain before they are actually united to christ , or are effectually called — yet take notice that that which actually reconciles the holy god to us is christ's satisfaction alone , to which there can be no addition made by any collateral work wrought in us , and done by us . we should therefore distinguish between a foederal , a virtual , and a representative vnion , and justification , and an actual vnion , and personal justification . for from hence , perhaps , the mistake may arise : the scripture every where declareth , that god is an enemy , or an adversary to all unconverted persons ; nay , and that he hates all the workers of iniquity , and ministers declare and preach the same thing , and the holy ghost in convictions represents the state of the soul to be deplorable before effectual calling : there is it is evident a relative change , passing on the soul by the spirit , as well as a real change. consolation . in the last place ( and to close with all i shall say ) what ground of comfort and consolation to believers is here ? . your sins are fully and for ever expiated , when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of the majesty on high ; that is , he hath removed the guilt , stain , and punishment of sin by his satisfaction and merits , so as god may be just as well as gracious in pardoning and justifying of us that believe in jesus . . all accusations of sin , the law , satan , and our own consciences , shall be silenced and answered by the intercession of christ : he doth and will out-plead them all . . all your wants shall be richly supplied , all your graces strengthened , and all your enemies are and shall be overcome , conquered , and vanquished for ever . . you are brought to god , and reconciled to him in his own way , in a sure way ; comfort ye my people , saith your god. speak ye comfortably to jerusalem , and cry unto her that her warfare is accomplished , and her iniquity is pardoned ; for she hath received of the lord's hands double for all her sins . war is for ever ceased betwixt god and you , and as god has received by christ double satisfaction ( as it were , for where sin abounded , grace hath much more abounded : ) so you have and shall receive hereby double at his hands , viz. not only a discharge from sin and wrath in hell , but also eternal life and glory in heaven . . all your afflictions ( and whatsoever else ) shall work together for your good . . you stand firmer , and more sure in ●his covenant , than adam stood in paradice ●●●ore he fell . . your peace is increasing , the path of the just is as a shining light that shines more and more to the perfect day : and not only your personal peace , or peace of your souls , but the peace of all god's israel also . o how great will that peace be in the latter days , when god delivers his people from all their external enemies , and troubles , and also unites them altogether to serve him with one consent . . you shall have peace not only while you live , but also when you die ; mark the perfect man , behold the vpright , the latter end of that man is peace — he shall enter into peace , they shall rest in their beds , &c. . you shall be found in peace at the great day , when the lord jesus shall appear ; be diligent , that ye may he found of him in peace , without spot and blameless : that is , give diligence to make it evident to your own consciences , that you are in christ , or are sincere christians , that so the peace of god may rule in your hearts by the holy ghost . . lastly , none can deprive you of this peace and joy , or take it away from you ; peace i leave with you , my peace i give unto you , not as the world giveth give i unto you : let not your hearts be troubled , neither let it be afraid — your hearts shall rejoyce , and your joy no man taketh from you . therefore be of good chear , for tho you have many things that trouble you , and satan may greatly disquiet your minds , yet lift up your heads and hearts — my brethren , i shall conclude all with the words of the apostle ; the god of peace shall bruise satan under your feet shortly : the grace of our lord jesus christ be with you . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e the occasion of the preaching on this subject . kings . . things look as if this may be the last year in which the turks may be a plague to the antichristian state . ezek. . rev. . , . the text opened . who makes this promise . to whom this promise is made . what is contained in this promise . the rise or spring of the promise . isa. . . the doctrine raised . explanatory propositions . tim. . . pro. . . the nature of the breach betwixt god and man opened . eccl. . . gen. . , . rom. . . eph. . . col. . . the fearful state of man by nature . acts . . joh. . rom. . . zech. . . ps. . . ps. . . & . . psal. . , , . gal. . . eph. . . joh. . . joh. . . the cause of the great breach betwixt god and man. gen. . . petto . answ. rom. . , . & . , . & . , . & . heb. . . & . , . & . . gal. . . rom. . . & . . & . . gal. . . no meer man nor angel could make our peace . concerning god's sovereignty in the display of his grace . dan. . . cap. . . exod. . rom. . , . mat. . . cor. . rom. . . chap. . . & . , . titus . . tho i inlarged on this proposition when i preached this sermon , yet i shall refer it to another head now . joh. . . john . za●h . . tim. . . ez. . , mal. . . heb. . . c. . , , joh. . mat . joh. . psa. . acts . . zech. . joh. . . heb. . . isa. . , ps. . . ark of the pag. p. . buxt . rab. tal. p. . the covenant made with believers is only a free promise , not upon mutual stipulation . tim. . . titus . , christ consented to the fathers proposals in the covenant of peace . isa. . , psa. . . , . heb. . , , . jo. . , the covenant of peace was made from all eternity christ is the only mediator of the covenant of peace . ● tim. . . isa. . . the necessity of a mediator of the covenant of peace , and that christ is he . rom. . . joh. . . heb. . . act. . . the requisites in christ as a mediator . christ is every way qualified to be mediator of the covenant . why christ must be god. psal. & . mark . , . hos. . joh. . . eph. . , . christ must be man. exod. . rom. . , . dr. manton , vol. p. . levit. . , . ver. . . * the dr. saith adam . joh. . . gen. . . ark of the covenant , p. . joh. . job . . the work of christ as mediator . tim. . . heb. . . christ called , or authorized to be a mediator . psal. . . isa. . , christ comply'd with the father's demands . joh. . eph. . , . col. . . christ as mediator , has interest in both parties . christ a well-wisher to peace . isa. . . phil. . , heb. . . gal. . . christ as mediator of a yield-and condescending spirit . heb. . . joh. ● ▪ . christ as mediator cloathed with power cor. . . ps. . . isa. . . isa. . . dan. . . joh. . rev. . . luke . . john . . eph. . . ps. . . rom. . . hos. cor. . jude . christ as mediator , is to reconcile both parties one to the other see mr. dan. williams's book . christ a patient mediator . rom. . . isa. . . pet. . christ an vndaunted and couragious mediator . isa. . . col. , . isa. . . joh. . christ a mollifying mediator . gal. . . rom. . , . isa. . . cor. . . psa. . , . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . eph. . . rom. . . tit. . . job . . the mediator leaves all obstinate sinners at last under the severity of the law. joh. . . christ the mediator will pass the definative sentence , from which there will be no appeal . joh. . . act. . . joh. . . job . . . rom. . , . phil. . , . act. . , . heb. . . deut. . , . col. . . heb. . . zech. . . act. . . joh. . , , . heb. . . mark . . joh. . . gal. . . the offices of christ opened . christ a priest. joh. . ● joh. . . rom. . . heb. . . heb. . . heb. . ● . rom. . . christ a king. psal. . . eph. . . matth. . . isa. ● . . eph. . , . ps. . . rev. . isa. . , . don. . . christ a prophet . act . , . act. . . joh. . . joh. . matt. . . * mr. clark's book of scripture justific . p. , eph. . . christ a surety . christ a testator . christ a physician , shepherd , &c. one error of the times detected . rom. . . matt. . rom. . , gal. . a vse of reproof . clark's script . justific . p. . see medium betwixt two extreams . p. . see the marrow of justific . rom. . . rom. . , . cor. . see lutherus redivivus , p. joh. . thess. . . heb. . . heb. . . what suretiship doth import . dr. owen on heb. c. . p. . see metaphors d book , p. . heb. . . ps. . ● . ps. ● . ● . see dr. owen on heb. , . p. . ps. . . joh. . heb. . , . gal. . . clarkson , p. . rom. . . see grotius de satisfact . roth. treat . on the cov. part . cap. . see justis . only upon a satisfaction , p. . to p. . pet. . . isa. . , , . why christ became our surety . rom. . . heb. . , , , , . what christ as our surety , ingaged to god to do . rom. . . joh. . pet. . isa. . . joh. . . col. . . phil. . . mich. . , . joh , psal. . , . vers. . cor. . joh. . ▪ isa. . . cor. . . joh. . . charneck . isa. . . isa. . . vers. . vers. . mich. . . ps. . . ps. . . isa. . , ps. , psal. . . isa. . . matth. . . ps. . , . heb. . , . see mr. d. w's , & mr. a's vindicat. p. . scripture justificat . how the suretiship of christ differs from that among men. a book intituled , christ set forth , p. . gal. . . isa. . . joh. . joh. . comfort to sinners . the ratification of the covenant of peace . gal. . . zach. . . psal. . . vers. . tit. . . pool's annotations on psal. . . heb. . , the covenant ratified by the death of christ. rev. . . key to open scripture metaphors , book . p. . christ the testator of the new covenant . heb. . , . gal. . . the great ends of the death of christ opened . heb. . . eph. . . rom. . . rom. . . cor. . , . pet. . gal. . . heb. . , . charnock . cor. . . the proclaiming of this peace . the gospel is the proclamation of peace . cor. . eph. . . cor. . rom. . ● . joh. . . joh. . , . isa. . . rom. . . cor. . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . col. . . joh. . . act. . isa. . . joh. . . . eph. . , . tit. . . isa. . , isa. . . isa. . . luk. . . eph. . . ps. . . pet. . , . prov. . , . what a kind of book the new testament is . gal. . . cor. . . cor. , . joh. . . rev. . joh. . . joh. . joh. . , . isa. . , . isa. . . rev. . jan. . . mal. . . ark of the cov. p. kings . . & . . zech. . joh. . . prov. . joh. . . heb. . . isa. . . heb. . . job . . matth. . . joh. . . cor. . . col. . . heb. . . heb. . . phil. . , , . joh. . . cor. . . beware of one math. caffin of sussex , a rank heretick . rom. . . act. . . tim. . . cor. . , . cor. . . isa. . . neh. . . vers. . vers. . psal. . . dan. . . tit. . . isa. . . luk. . cor. . . cor. . mat. . . acts . . phil. . , , . luke . . a desparity between christ's ambassadors , and ambassadors of earthly princes . cor. . . lev. . , , . , to the . ps. . . tim. . . cor. . . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . heb. . . isa. . . mark . . joh. . the nature of the gospel proclamation opened col. . . rom. . . eph. . , . job . . . eph. . , . joh. . . acts . . rom. . , . heb. . . isa. . , . joh. . , , . . joh. . . jer. . . ezek. . . act. . . the proclamation is vniversal . peace is to be proclaimed to all nations . rom. . , . cor. . . it is to be proclaimed to all sort of sinners . jer. . . vers. . arminianism detected . tit. . . joh. . joh. . . job . . cor. . pet. . . joh. . . ezek. . , . jer. . philip. . ● joh. . . acts . . examen . confessioonis pacificae . dr. chancy p. , in his doct. of godliness . d. c. p. . the terms of the gospel opened ephes. . , . eph. . . isa. . . isa. . . joh. . , . matt. . . joh. . . isa. . . joh. . . rev. . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . joh. . , jer. . . ezek. . . the covenant of peace , is the covenant of grace . joh . sam. . . jer. . . job . . rom. . . jer , . . ezek. . . ezek. . . ezek. . . ezek. . . zech. . joh. . rom. . . gal. . . gal. . . why all is of god's free grace the great difference betwixt the covenant of works , & the covenant of grace opened . heb. . . exod. . , . deut. . * i repeat this often because i would have it fastened on the mind of the reader rom. . . eph. . . phil. . . ezek. . . gal. . . heb. . act. . . joh. . . mark . . joh. . . heb. . . heb. . ult . matt. . isa. . . rom. . . rom. . : gal. . . gal. . . eph. . . gal. . . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . 't is the covenant of grace , because 't is an absolute covenant . dr. c. dr. c. rom. . . gal . . reader , be not offended i repeat 't is so often in so great a case . zec. . dr. c. rom. . . jam. . . febr. . . the covenant of grace a well ordered covenant . joh. . . * see a book intituled , the everlasting covenant , a sweet cordial for a drooping soul , - being two sermons preached upon the account of mr. henry forty 's funeral , minister of the gospel , and at his request , from sam. . . the covenant of grace is a glorious covenant . act. . . zech. . . col. . . tim. . . the covenant of peace , a full covenant . mat. . . mat. . . eph. . . mat. . . psal. . psal. . . pal. . . col. . . chap. . . joh. . . psa. . col. . . phil. . . ezek. . . rom. . . joh. . . joh. . . . pet. . . heb. . . ezek. . . ver . . sam. . . isa. . . psal. . . ver . . isa. . . eph. . . psal. . , . isa. . . rev. . . heb. . . psal. . . joh. . . * dr. owen on justifica . p. , . isa. . , . feb. . the covenant of redemption and the covenant of grace , not two distinct covenants , but one and the same covenant . cor. . . . dr. c. p. , . rom. . . doctor chauncy . pet. . . tit. . . zech. . . see the everlasting covenant a sweet cordial , p. , , , . larger cathechism . ark of the covenant , p. . pag. pag. . p. . charnock on reconcil . p. . art. of the cov. p. charnock's reconcil . p. . art. of the cov. p. mr. sam. petto on the covenant , p. . . sam. . . ps. . , , . hos. . . jer. . , . jer. . . ps. . . hos. . , . isa. . . isa. . . shewing what great gifts , grants , and blessings are contained in the covenant of peace . how we come to have god to be our god. ezek. . . what it doth import to have god to be our god. joh. . . what it is for god to give himself to us . ps. . . gen. . . divine goodness given in this covenant . matt. . . what a good god is , opened . ps. . . psal. . . exod. . . god originally good . god infinitely good god immutably good . mal. . . heb. . . god universally good . god an unmixt good . god a soul inriching good . isa. . , ps. . , . god a delicious good . god superlatively good . god a communicable good . god an eternal good . ps. . . ps. . . isa. . . ps. . . ps. . . ps. . . pro. . . eph. . . & . col. . . ps. . & . . lam. . . pet. . . isa. . . joh. . . mal. . . kings . , . kings . . ps. . . ps. . . christ is given . col. . . eph. . . ps. . . cor. . . col. . . the holy spirit is given . all grace is given in the covenant . eph. . . ministers given in the covenant . cor. . , . all the prromises given . pet. . . cor. . . eternal life is given . rev. . . free access to god granted in the covenant . believers are god's people by virtue of the covenant of peace . jer. . . five things premised . cotton on the cov. p. . gal. . . rom. . . hos. . . how we may be said to be the people of god. joh. . . act. . . joh. . . vers. . cor. . , . tit. . . cant. . . rev. . joh. . . rom. . . joh. . . eph. . . what a kind of people the people of god are . rom. . psal. . . gal. . . joh. . . phil. . . rom. . . prov. . . ezek. . . pet. . . judg. . . prov ▪ . . psal. . . psal. . . job . . isa. . . ps. . . psal. . . cant. . phil. . . chron. . . . . psal. . ▪ hab. . . isa. . . jam. . . pet. . ps. . . mich. . . joh. . . ps. . . isa. . . ps. . . ps. . . ps. . acts . . joh. . . cor. . rev. . . joh. . . joh. . . cor. . . cor. . joh. . . joh. . . tim. . tim. . . . eph. . . cap. . , . joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . what a great blessing it is to be god's people . job . . . rom. . . heb. . . rom. . . jer. . . rom. . . psal. . . psal. . . isa. . . . jer. . . heb. . , . rom. . , . joh. . . rom. . . joh. . , , . joh. . . . charnock . phil. . , , . a free trade is opened by the covenant of peace . what is meant by the interruption of our trading with god. rev . . what is meant by our trade and traffick to heaven . gen. . . heb. . eph. . . this trade the effects of our peace . psal. . . the saints trade is in and by the river , i. e. the holy spirit so called . pro. . . rev. . . rom. . eph. . . eph. . . heb. . , . joh. . what a rich and glorious trade this spiritual trade is . the spiritual trade inriches the soul. phil. . . prov. . this trade inriches the soul with choice experiences . ps. . psal. . . ps. . . ps. . : psal. . ▪ pro. . prov. . eccles. . heb. . , . phi. . , . this trade inriches the soul with gods promises . pet. . . phi. . . with satisfying and soul-fatening riches . the nature of spiritual things opended . ps. . , . pet. . eph. . . pro. . . isa. . . psa. . . ps. . . tim. . . tim. . . cor. . joh. . . who believers trade with , or is their correspondent . ps. . . matth. . . tim . . heb. . , what returns christ makes believers . christ makes great returns . isa. . . matth. . . mark , , . matth. . . prov. . , . rom. . . cor. . . what buying denotes job . christ makes sure returns . ps. . . gal. . . ps. . . christ makes quick returns . isa. . . jam. . . there are some false traders , & these will be undone , or break , and come to nothing , but others can't break rev. . . pro. . directions to trade to heaven . joh. . . job . hag. . . dan. . . rev. . . april . . a summary account of what has been said as being requisite to peace with god , &c. cor. . what is requisite to the creatures being reconciled to god. repentance how and when 't is wrought in the soul. rom. . . tit. . . eph. . . rom. . . cor. . a person may believe and not know it . faith is more than a bare evidence . joh. . . rom. . . heb. . . peace is according to the degree of faith. the excellent nature of peace with god opened , by virtue of the covenant . rom. . ult . heb. . . psal. . . heb. . . ps. . . numb . . . phil. . . pet. . . isa. . . rom. . . amos. . . eph. . . cant. . . joh. . . mark . the happy and vniversal peace of christ kingdom . isa. . . isa. . . cor. . christ the sum of the covenant . isa. . . ark of the cov. p. isa. . . gen. . . gen. . . eph. . . eph. . . cant. . joh. . . joh. . . mark . . pet. . . how to know whether we are in covenant with god , or not . ps. . . joh. . . joh. . . rom. . . a needful caution . * tho you have heard that i own a foederal vnion from eternity . see my medium betwixt two extreams . heb. . . isa. . , prov. . psa. . . isa. . . pet. . . joh. . ch. . . anti-pædobaptism, or, the third part being a full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism : in which the arguments for infant baptism from the covenant and initial seal, infants visible church membership, antiquity of infant baptism are refelled [sic] : and the writings of mr. stephen marshal, mr. richard baxter ... and others are examined, and many points about the covenants, and seals and other truths of weight are handled / by john tombes. tombes, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) anti-pædobaptism, or, the third part being a full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism : in which the arguments for infant baptism from the covenant and initial seal, infants visible church membership, antiquity of infant baptism are refelled [sic] : and the writings of mr. stephen marshal, mr. richard baxter ... and others are examined, and many points about the covenants, and seals and other truths of weight are handled / by john tombes. tombes, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed by e. alsop, london : . imperfect: signature mmmmm faded. pages - of defective union theological seminary library spliced at end. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism -- early works to . baptists -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion anti-paedobaptism : or the third part . being , a full review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism . in which , the arguments for infant-baptism from the covenant and initial seal , infants visible church-membership , antiquity of infant-baptism , are refelled . and the writings of mr. stephen marshal , mr. richard baxter , mr. john geree , mr. thomas blake , mr. thomas cobbet , dr. nathaniel homes , mr. john drew , mr. josiah church , mr. william lyford , dr. daniel featley , mr. john brinsley , mr. cuthbert sidenham , mr. william carter , mr. samuel rutherford , mr. john crag , dr. henry hammond , mr. john cotton , mr. thomas fuller , mr. john stalham , mr. thomas hall , and others , are examined ; and many points about the covenants , and seals , and other truths of weight , are handled : by john tombes . b d. isa. . . wo unto them that call evill good and good evill , that put darkness for light and light for darkness , that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter . london , printed by e. aisop , over against the upper pump in grubstreet . . to the parliament of the commonwealth of england , scotland , and ireland . having presented the two former parts of this review to his highness , and his council ; i take boldness to tender this to your honours , as those who are intrusted with the affairs of these nations ( in which are many churches of christ , whose safety , and welfare doth much depend under christ on your wisedome , and uprightness ) that it may serve to justifie your honours in allowing those who agree with me in the ●oint herein discussed liberty , employment , and maintainance alike with dissenters . wherein your equity and wisedome is very conspicuous and laudable , notwithstanding the clamours and practises of those our opposites , who would have the ship of this commonwealth so ordered , that the power of it should all incline to one side to the endangering of the whole . 't is true the asserting of this truth hath heretofore been unhappily managed , partly by reason of the conjunction of some errours very dangerous in the assertors of this truth , and partly by reason of the violence of spirit in them and their opposites , which have occasioned hard lawes against them , and great hatred towards them . nor do i know any likelihood but that still not onely about this , but also about any other point in difference , when one party seeks to oppress the other there will be much unquietness , unless governours become moderatours between them . in the declaration of the lords and commons assembled in parliament , ordered to be printed . martii . i read these words . the name of anabaptism hath indeed contracted much odium , by reason of the extravagant opinions and practises of some of that name in germany , tending to the disturbance of the government and peace of all states : which opinions and practices we abhor and detest . but for their opinion against the baptism of infants , it is onely a difference about a circumstance of time in the administration of an ordinance , wherein in former ages as well as this , learned men have differed both in opinion and practice : and though wee could wish that all men could satisfie themselves , and joyn with us in our judgment and practise in this point : yet herein wee held it fit that men should bee convinced by the word of god with gentleness and reason , and not beaten out of it by force and violence : and yet may . . there was an ordinance which made it punishable with imprisonment , to affirm that the baptism of infants is unlawfull , or that infants baptism is void , and that such persons are to be baptized again . notwithstanding which , it is to be acknowledged with all thankfulness to his higness and your honours , that we enjoy our peace and liberty as dissenters do ; which they who value not , forget the goodness of god , and make forfeiture of their own good . for those who so do , i plead not , but for that truth and practise which is delivered and appointed by christ , which should be encouraged not suppressed by governours . for this i am moved to appear out of conscience of my duty to christ , commiseration of them who have been condemned and injured for avouching my position , and my engagement by solemn covenant enjoyned by parliament , to endeavour reformation in doctrine and worship according to gods word ; and do humbly present it to your honours , craving that if any lawes do remain in force against it they may be repealed ; and that while we walk according to the rule of christ , liberty , peace , encouragement may be granted to us as to others who have joyned in the common cause , which will be a motive to us the more affectionately to pray for your honours prosperous and happy proceedings in repairing the breaches , and building up this commonwealth whereto you are advanced , and for which i am your honours humble and devoted servant : john tombes . to the christian reader . though all personal pleas and narrations are suspected to be partial , and are usually judged to have something of ostentation , or dissembling , o● some such inordinate affection which may abate their credit and esteem , yet the practises of opponents in controversies , and the great prejudice to the truth , and person opposed they create thereby , and the difficulty for persons who are not actors in such contentions to understand the truth without them make them necessary . doubtless if such pleas were not necessary , the apostle paul would not have thought his course justifiable , who hath written one epistle , to wit , the second to the corinthians , almost wholly apologetical for himself , that the misunderstanding of himself and wayes might not be advantage to seducers for hindering the success of his preaching . it is true my credit and esteem is nothing comparable to the apostles , the church and truth of god may stand , though i be buried in perpetual silence : yet sith i am a preacher of the gospel as paul was ( absit verbo invidia ) and my labours therein as i hope not altogether without fruit , and sith the lord seems to me to have set me , though in a lower sphere , for defence of that one baptism which paul mentions ephes. . . as one of the chief points of christianity , and heb. . . is counted as a foundation point . i assure my self paul's practise doth justifie mine , and that i should be wanting not onely to mine own credit , but also to that truth which is dearer then my credit , if i should pass by with silence those misrepresentations whereby both are abused , and the mindes of men alienated from them . which is the more necessary , because of the great repute which my antagonists have in this generation , and their confident speeches , and their incessant endeavours upon all occasions in pulpits , presses , disputes , conferences , to represent the way i avouch as dangerous , my self as instrumental to an evil designe of perverting and dividing the churches of god , unto which the proneness of men to uphold an errour inveterate , and speciously pretended to be approved and blessed by god , and the contrary opinion accursed , besides the advantages it hath for their carnal ease , and for the begetting of a favourable opinion of themselves and their children ( which are more to most then demonstrations out of gods word ) do gain an easie assent . and though i am not out of hope that those who have opposed the truth i assert with impetuous zeal , will be ( especially the most tender conscienced , who examine their wayes , and review their doctrines ) awakened and see and confess their errour , yet i fear the obloquy , and perhaps detriment in repute and outward estate and peace , which m●n either are likely or doubt they may incur by owning the truth i hold forth , or the seeming inconsistency of the reformation i seek to promote , with the peace of the churches of god , will divert the thoughts of many from an exact consideration , and an equall judgement of what i shall write , either of my self or the matter under debate . what was wont to be opposed against the reformation of popish and prelatical corruptions , shall we go against all antiquity ? be wiser then our fathers ? condemn all the churches ? make rents in the church ? and such like objections , though they be upon examination but vain , yet like gorgons head they are apt to turn men into stones , and to make men not see what they do or might see , and to be insensible of the evil of that practise , which otherwise their consciences would be affrighted with . and truely though it be the wise and just contrivance of divine prov●dence , and congruous to his end , that the vanity of all things under the sun might appear , yet is it an humane irregularity , that not onely for evil labour , but also for all travel and every right work a man is envied , malign●d , or disliked of his neighbour , eccl. . . chiefly when it crosseth self ends and conceits . nor is it incident onely to the prophane and unbelievers , to dislike and oppose such acts as are rightly done , but also to the godly , until their mistakes are discovered to them . the building of the altar of ed , josh. . . was likely to have been an occasion of war beetween the rest of the congregation of israel and some tribes ▪ till the intention of the builders was cleared to phinehas ; and peter's going in to cornelius , act. . . occasioned contention with him , though it were from god , till his warrant was shewed . paul knew that his promoting the collection for the poor saints at jerusalem might be distasted of the best , and therefore he prayes that his service which he had for jerusalem might be accepted of the saints , rom. . . even holy upright men have their weaknesses , passions , mis-prisions , prejudices , which oft times hinder a right understanding of tenents and actions of christian brethren , and thereby no small contentions arise . god would have us discern thereby humane imperfection , and keep our spirits humble and heedfull how we manage the rightest actions . surely no action is more necessary then the discovery of truth in the things of god , nor should any endeavours be more acceptable to holy persons , then such as tend thereto , yea though there should be imperfection in actings and defect in the success . yet too much experience hath shewed that such attempts meet with much opposition , and are ill entertained even by those who are or seem friends to truth . it is unnecessary to give instances : in the scripture acts . , &c. in the ecclesiastical story there are so many as verifie it beyond all contradiction . if there were no other example but what hath befaln me about the point in this writing discussed , yet it were sufficient to verifie what i said of the difficulty to gain entertainment of that truth against which men are prepossessed , and of the ill usage of them that in a due manner endeavour to cleer it . that infant baptism was not according to gods will , i thought might be made manifest by the silence of it in scripture , and the writings of the two first ages , and by shewing how it was counted but an ecclesiastical humane tradition unwritten , induced upon such reasons by the leaders of the churches in after ages as are now judged erroneous ; and how false and dangerous the grounds are on which it is made a divine institution , to wit , an imagined covenant of grace to a believer and his seed natural , the nature of sacraments to be seals of the covenant of grace , the inference of duties about positive rites of the new testament from analogy with abrogated ceremonies of the old , the command of circumcision to have been in the extent of it commensurate to and derived from the covenant with abraham gen. . as the adequate reason , the succession of baptism into the room and use of circumcision ; all which or most of them , are so contrary to the scripture and protestant doctrine , as that i presumed they would quickly have been discerned by those who are acquainted with the controversies of divines , and sought reformation in discipline , and removal of humane inventions in gods worship , and had entered into a solemn oath and covenant to that end . and for my way of manifesting my doubts first to the ministers of london , and then to the committee of the assembly then sitting at westminster , and after to a prime man in it in the years , . and what opposition i found is so manifest in my two treatises and apology published , . as that it were but actum agere to say any more thereof . which i hoped would have taken off such prejudices , as my antagonists writings had raised against my writings and person , that i might securely apply my self to review the dispute , w●thout hearing of any more personal objections . but when i found the like usage continued by mr. robert baily of glasgow in scotland , i published an addition to the apology . though it were framed before , and sent in a letter manuscript to him . yet the hottest charge was behinde . after my necessitated removal from the temple in london to bewdley in worcestershire , anno . it happened that a publike dispute was between mr. richard baxter of kidderminster near to bewdley and my self , at bewdley jan. . . which how it was occasioned , managed , injuriously divulged , may be perceived by the writings on both sides ; his epistle before the first edition of the saints everlasting rest , his book of baptism , praefestinantis morator , and my antidote printed . and pr●cursor , anno . by mr. baxters book of baptism , my self , doctrine , answers , practise have been so unwo●thily dealt with , as that they have been painted out in deformed shapes quite besides their true feature , and thereby exposed to the unrighteous censures and contempt of so many , that mr. blake in his preface to his vind. faederis thought he might without controul say , mr. tombes is generally lookt upon low enough under hatches . it is indeed too manifest that upon the publishing of mr. baxters book of baptism , which was often printed and very much dispersed , floods of reproaches were cast on me and those who are of my judgement in that point , triumphant boastings of that book as the mawl of anabaptism , a most excellent piece , a lasting monument , &c. which had laid me flat on my back , with many the like vaunts in print and colloquies . nor did mens loose tongues and pens stay here , but many insolent speeches were vented , trampling upon me and the cause with me as captives subdued by that mighty hand ; my actions were censured , my abilities disparaged , yea people possessed with conceits as if i and those of my judgement were accursed of god , left over to a spirit of delusion , a hardened heart ; magistrates were provoked to make lawes against us , as intollerable authors and fomentors of the errors , heresies , and divisions now in the land ; the rage and violence of common people shewed it self against the practise of baptism enjoyned by christ , people were deterred from hearing us , schollers from reading our writings , ancient acquaintance alienated , liberty formerly allowed to preach in publike places restrained , those that by baptism were added to communion withdrawn from society , yea violent cours●s taken to hinder wives , children , servants from associating with them that were baptized , and that which was in former ages the onely baptism , and highly honoured by the ancient writers with titles of dignity exceedingly debased and derided , insomuch that in many parts of this land , i have been taken at best for a self-conceited man , affecting novelty and singularity , of a dangerous spirit , a ring leader of a sect of giddy men adversaries to unity , discipline , opening a door to all fanatique conceits , whose end would prove wicked , with many more imputations , which neither my books nor known conversation afore and since the wars , my labours and imployment in places not obscure , the confessed holiness , orth●doxy , unblameableness of those churches over which i had any inspection , or with whom i associated could so acquit us ▪ but that either our wound is uncured or a skar rem●ins . mr. blake in his preface to his vind. faed . saith thus of me . and indeed i think it a special providence that he should thus appear with a shew of learning , a volumn of words , a rhapsody of authors ▪ getting a name to be the strongest sword and buckler that was ever left up in this cause , to draw the eyes of his party towards him , and then fall so flat , able to make good nothing ; so that men far from censorious vanity well able to judge ( upon serious perusal of his works and converse with him ) do conclude , that it is not possible but he goes against the dictates of his own conscience ; so that these it seems count me for an autocri● or self-condemned heretick . what other imputations mr. blake casts on me , may be seen here sect. . and what mr. firmin , mr. gattaker , and mr. s●mon ford , sect. . besides what mr. john goodwin , mr. wood , and many more have judged of mine and mr. baxters writings . after mr. baxter mr. john crag would needs take up the cudgels and play his part in this matter , which how he hath done may be seen by our writings , compared chiefly here sect . , &c. books after books have been published from england and scotland , by dr. hammond , mr. carter , mr. rutherford , mr. fuller , dr. savage in latin , and others for infant-baptism ; besides sermons in the pulpit , and determinations in the universities at most solemn times . yea upon occasion of a meer accident at oxford in july . i have been baited in the weekly news●books , and i have just cause to conceive that by clancular letters , conferences , consultations , not onely my doctrine hath been decried , my writings vilified , my way represented as pernicious that people might not know the truth , but also my station undermined , and my silencing endeavoured ; and which is of all other the most grievous to me , the fruit of my labours in the gospel of christ not a little hindered : so that whereas mr. baxter would have in his gildas silvianus all ministers tied to confer with the people in private ▪ by his misrepresenting of me , the people ( whom i would gladly teach ) are deterred from hearing me in publike , and conferring with me in private . yea notwithstanding the quakers have been so often opposed by me , and my doctrine as contrary to theirs as light to darkness , by reason of mr. baxters imputing the rise of quakerism to anabaptism , as he terms it ( which how ●ar he chargeth on me may be seen by his questions to me set down here sect . . ) one blashfield a bookseller in lempster hath openly reviled me at the close of my sermon while i was in the pulpit decemb. . . though i then refuted the quakers , and told me , if there were no anabaptist there would be no quaker ; and somewhat afore mr. farmer a preacher in bristol making a relation of james naylors riding into bristol , prints a passage in a private letter , which he with much ado signifies to mee was written by mr. robert breton of pembridge in herefordshire but four miles from me , in which i am charged to say , that in a sermon which i disavow in my writings upon the report at table of a man of this town , who ( what ever his qualities be ) being pressed twice by me , once before some of the most intelligent and indifferent men here , another time before all or the most part of the governours of this town , to deal plainly whether i did speak those words which mr. farmer hath printed doth refuse to do it , shuffles in his answers , and will neither affirm nor deny it . such dealings as these from men reputed godly , preachers of the gospel , some of them fellow-sufferers for the common cause of reformation , and by the same covenant engaged to it , do make me amazed to see what strange courses the intemperate zeal of paedobaptists carries them , discerning thereby what a malignity of spirit they have towards me , who have so far as i can remember done no such thing to them , nor have been wanting in any good office i could do for them with a good conscience , but willing to joyn with godly dissenters in the common cause of christ. nor do i finde any relenting in mr. baxter , but as he shews his spirit in his letters printed here sect . , . so by his preaching at bowdley may ▪ . in which he gave ten frivolous reasons for his practise of infant-baptism , for the confirming of his party who opposed my preaching there at that time , and since , and by the late passages in most of his writings , and in his last book of conversion p. . i finde him still the same he was . no doubt ( saith he ) but god doth pardon original sin to multitude of infants by the bloud of christ , through the covenant of grace which is made to the faithfull and their seed , and this pardon bestowed by the covenant is sealed by baptism which more solemnly conferreth it . it is most probable that god doth also make some change on the hearts of infants , secretly giving some seed of inward grace before or in their baptism . and p. . he hath this fool●sh passage . others withdraw upon pretence we are unbaptized , to which end they must coin a new baptism , or else they are at a loss . and their arguing with 〈◊〉 will be much like the papists , in the point of transubstantiation , which requireth that men renounce their sense and say , that they see not that which they se● , and feel not or tast not that which indeed they feel and tast , and then they may come to be in the right ; and so we must beleeve that we see none baptized in our churches , nor hear it , nor know of any such thing , and then we may come to be a church : as if the arguing were that there is nothing which paedobaptists call baptism in their churches , not , there is nothing that may bee truely called christian baptism according to christs institution , and then p. . after his fashion when he wants arguments , he adds . oh if it were the will of god that we could have as clear light in some other weighty points as we have in scripture for the baptism of the children of beleevers , how much would it do to quiet the understandings of many that are willing to know ! i dare not say it is a wonder to me to finde such passages in mr. baxter , but having examined his book of baptism , his ten reasons for his practise of infant baptism delivered in bewdley chappel may . . his letters to me . set down here sect . , &c. i cannot but bemoan the sad condition , first of ministers and people who are carried away with such shallow disputings , and confident speeches as mr. baxter hath used in these writings . . of my self , and all who go about to cleer truth , that they be necessi●ated to stir up such a nest of wasps and hornets ▪ as these have shewed themselves to be who have opposed me , if th●y do never so brotherly and fairly and regularly declare their judgments contrary to the common received tenents . yet i must confess two things have somewhat refreshed mee against the hard censures of those whom mr. blake mentions and the rest , the one that his highness , and council and the parliament since ( as i am informed ) confirming the ordinance for approbation of publique preachers seem to have better though●s of me in putting that trust on me , th● other that ( to mention no other ) two of the ablest acutest and well read divines and accurate dispu●an●s , which i have known the university of oxford in my time to have bred , and who have been thought sit for the divinity chair , have had far other conceits of my writings then these have had , the one not long after the publishing of my examen , expressing his rejoycing to see so accurate and scholastical a discussing of the point , which he found not in the assembly , wishing he had known of it afore the publishing of it that he might have prefixed an epistle , yet wishing it had been written in latin , as foreseeing that the publishing it in english was likely to beget me more trouble , then it would have done if printed in latin ; the other who since that wrote thus to me . i am a friend to your person ( whom i have known ( though not known to you ) this . years ) and to your opinion too ( as to the main of it ) for i beleeve and know , that there is neither precept nor practise in scripture for paedobaptism ▪ nor any just evidence for it for about two hundred years after christ. the first who bears witness to infant baptism prastised in the church is tertullian ▪ but so as he expres●●d slik●s and condemnes it as an unwarrantable and irrational custom● : and naxianzen a good while after him ( in his oration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) dislikes it too , and would not have infants brought to baptism till they were of some age and able to answer for themselves . sure i am that in the primitive times they were first to be catechumini , ●f then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 illuminati , or baptizati , and that not onely children 〈◊〉 pagans ▪ or pagans converted , but children of christian parents , na●ianzen ( though a bishops son ) being not baptized till he was about . years of age , as appears in his life , and the like is evident of some others· the truth is , i beleeve p●dobaptism did ( how or by whom i know not ) come in in the d . century and in the d. and th . began to be practised ( though not generally ) and defended as lawfull from that text ( grosly misunderstood ) jo. . . vpon the like gross mistake of jo. . . they did for many centuries ( both in the greek and latin church ) communicate infants and give them the lords supper , and i confess they might do both as well as either : but although they baptized some infants and thought it lawfull so to do , yet augustin was the first that ever said it was necessary inde durus pater infantum . i have read what my learned and worthy friend dr. hammond , mr. baxter and others say in defence of it , and ( i confess ) i wonder not a little that men of such great parts should say so much to so little purpose , for i have not yet seen any thing like an argument for it . nor is it a small case to me that i finde after all mr. baxters shamefull and vain arguings against the truth , and injurious dealings with me and the baptized christians , with whom i hold communion , that yet at last , though quite besides his intentions , he hath so befriended our cause as to lend us twenty good arguments against infant baptism , in his d . disputation of right to sacraments , in the close of the th . saying thus p. . i conclude that all examples of baptism in scripture do mention onely the administration of it to the professors of saving faith : and the precepts give us no other direction . and i provoke mr. blake ( as far as is seemly for me to do ) to name one precept for baptizing any other , and make it good if he can . i know what he will pretend , that he intended th●s onely against mr. blakes opinion of baptizing upon a dogmatical faith and he means what he argues onely in the case of adult persons . but that doth not avoid his own arguments against himself , though he otherwise intended ; nor will his evasion serve till he prove , that there is a different precept or example for baptizing infants from that of baptizing adult persons , or that any are to be accounted beleevers or disciples by their parents o● , as his term is , proparents profession , which will never be done by him . i will not say as mr. blake saith some have said of me , that it is not possible but he goes against the dictates of his own conscience : but this i dare boldly say , that mr. baxter hath strongly disputed against inf●nt baptism in the place forenamed , pag. . asserting and proving arg. . we must not baptize any who profess not true repentance , pag. . arg. . we must baptize no man that first professeth not to bel●eve in god , ● . . argum. . it 's the very nature or appointed use of the external part of baptism it self ( yea essential to it ) to signifie and profess the saving faith and repentance of the baptized , pag. . arg . . we must baptize none that profess not their consent to enter themselves presently into the covenant of grace with god in christ , p. . arg . . we must not baptize any without the profession of that faith and repentance which are made the condition of remission of sins ; the rest have speeches to like purpose , in which though he puts in sometimes [ and their seed ] yet his proofs do all overthrow that his own addition , and tear off his patch which he hath printed to his argumen● , and as fully militate against his book of baptism as mr. blakes tenet ; so that to me it seems that by divine providence without his intention , una eademque manus vulnus opemque tulit : nor do i think but that if conscientious christians chiefly schollers , would read over that second disputation , they would be satisfied that infants ought not to be baptized but themselves , and that mr. baxter hath cheated the world by his book of baptism , and shewed himself therein an inconsiderate writer . but however this fall out , it is a great rejoycing to my soul , that god hath so long preserved my life and strength though now declining , to finish this part of the review also , and to see that part of it printed which is in answer to mr. baxters second main argument in his book of baptism , about his pretended ordinance of infants visible church-membership and its repeal , which some have given out as unanswerable , because this answer hath been so long in publishing ; not considering that besides the not knowing of his minde about it till . i have been necessitated to answer many others , and together with my constant labours , some other employments extraordinary with domestick distractions , necessity of respect to my bodily strength , want of help of books in some points , of learned men to whom i might have recourse , of an amanuensis , and chiefly the difficulty of getting it printed by reason of the great charge , which this book amounts to , and yet is not so readily put off as other smaller writings , and such as sute more with the minde of readers , of whom few seem to search after truth impartially , especially in controversies of this kinde . in this which is done my witness is in heaven how faithfully and sincerely i have dealt , which makes me slight the unrighteous censures of those mr. blake mentions , of mr. baxter , mr. firmin mr. gattaker , mr. ford , mr. crag and the rest . and for mr. john goodwin who so much magnifies mr. baxters book , i wish he and mr. horn his second would read this writing , which i take to be a sufficient answer , with the two fore-parts of this review , to what is said by mr. baxter and themselves in the point of infant-baptism . as for the point of schism or separation which mr. baxter , and he charge anabaptists with , i take my self no further concerned then mine own fact , which if they can prove to have been unbrotherly or unrighteous , i hope god wil so frame my heart as to testifie my repentance : if not , i advise them to take heed of rash judging , and all their followers of following them in that sin . if the objection be still set on foot , that those that are , as they term us , anabaptists , do fall into many false opinions , prove quake●s &c. i wish them better to examine reports of us , then mr. farmer , mr. breton , and others have done of me afore they spread them , and to look into the state of the societies of their own judgement , who if they be not guilty of such fallings , i shall rejoyce with them , and hope they will learn to pitty and endeavour to restore those who are fallen in the spirit of meekness ; if they be , that they will remember that it should be no more objected to us then to themselves . for my own part , i hope i shall not abet any such errour , nor do i know of any such errours or miscarriages in the churches to which i have associated which are not opposed and censured by us : nor do i think it equal we should be charged with that errour or miscarriage which we condemn . and i make bold to admonish paedobaptists in the lord , that they take heed of those practises which tend to the disquieting , defaming , hindering their brethren in the work of christ because of the supposed errour , as they term it , of anabaptism , lest they happily fight against god , and wrong their brethren , remembring that he that doth wrong shall receive for , the wrong he hath done , and there is no respect of persons with god , col. . . and to the end they may search their own consciences , and rightly judge of themselves , i presume they may do well to lay to heart th●se following qu●stions . . whether it be not a manifest perverting of the gospel of christ , to maintain that the covenant of gospel grace is made to each beleever and his seed . . whether it be not against the gospel to maintain , that the command of circumcision gen. . doth any way bind christian beleevers now in their practise ? . whether it be nor against the gospel to entitle p●rsons to the church visible christian by their natural generation of beleevers ? . whether it be not a manifest will-worship to practise the positive rite of infant-baptism as gods worship , which is confest to have neither precept nor example in the new testament ? . whether it be not a profanation of baptism to use it otherwise then christ appointed ? . whether by justifying infant baptism , the relinquish●ng of many popish and prelatical ceremonies which have as much of reason , tradition , authority of the church as it , be not condemned ? . whether it be not an oppression , and exercising of dominion over mens consciences , to tie them to acknowledge sacraments to be in their nature seals of the covenant of grace which the scripture terms not so , nor can be proved plainly from it , and to impose on them the practise of infant baptism under pain of guilt of sin which christ never appo●nt●d ? . whether it be not manifest hypocrisie to oppose the cross , surplice , &c. and to be zealous for infant baptism ? . whether they who justifie infant baptism and oppose baptism of believers at age confessed to be according to the institution of christ and primitive practise , are not partial in gods law and may expect to be made contemptible before all the people ? . whether they who do so , do not break the solemn covenant of endeavouring reformation according to gods word ? . how they that say they baptize infants into the name of christ , who sprinkle or powr onely some water on them , without any profession of the infant can be acquitted from saying falsly ? . by what rule those who are acknowledged visible church-members in infancy c●n be denied the lords supper ? . whether it be not a signe that paedobaptism is not according to rule , when there are so many differences about the title to it between papists and protestants , and the ablest protestants themselves ? . how they can make good the regularity of church-consti●ution , and the ordination of elders , who have no other baptism but that in infancy ? . how they can be free from the guilt of hardening souls in deadly presumption , who avouch the christianity of infants by natural birth , and infant baptism which is the great plea of ignorant and profane persons on which they rest ? . whether it be not a signe of injustice and want of love to truth , or adherence to a party , in them that will read and hear what one party saith for infant baptism , and refuse to read or he●r what the oppos●●s say , though they bring the plain institution of christ and his apostles practise for them ? . whether it be not an unrighteous course to charge the miscariages of persons either dead or strangers , on that doctrine or practise which countenanceth not them , or to persons who are no way abettors of them becaus of agreement in one opinion ? . whether division or schism is not chiefly to be imputed to those who violently oppose & inveigh against their brethren for holding & practising that which they conceive themselves bound to do by the plain command of christ which their opposites do acknowledge ? . whether such as impose infan baptism on their brethren who hold the faith and baptism confess●d to be from christ , and deal rigorously with them for not owning i● , do not as the papists , who impose with cruelty their own addi●ions o● those who otherwise are not denied to hold th● true faith a●d pract●s● ? . whether such pretenc●s as are made for infant baptism , and the imagined evil of anabaptism , can be a sufficient plea for baptism , and the imagined evil of anabaptism can be a su●f●cient plea for any truly godly person to neglect that baptism which christ hath so strictly commanded mat. . . mar. . . & the apostles constantly practised ? and sith mr. baxter hath with so much earnestness ministred so many interrogatories to me , i shall take the boldness to advise him to consider his own ways . . in giving such a title to his book of pl●in scripture proof of infants baptism , when there is not one text in all his book which speaks plainly or obscurely for it , yea it 's confessed by himself , that it is not plainly determined in scripture , p. . and is so dark in scripture that the controversie is become hard p. . . in his abusing so many texts of scripture as he ha●h done , chiefly the institution of bap●ism matth. . for infant baptism , as if they were disciples appointed there to be baptized , which is sufficiently refuted by himself in many places of baptism , p. , . of the right to sacraments from p. , to . . in coyning a new title to baptism by the profession of parents or pro parents , of which the scripture is altogether silent . . in his devising ●n ordinanc● of infants visible membership in the christian church , of which there is no foot step in all the bible . . in his many years clamorous abuses , and some kind of violent persecutions of my self and others of my judgement for not acknowledging these figments of his , but promoting reformation of baptism according to our duty . . in his unbrotherly printing my answers i made in the dispute at bewdley jan. . . without so much as acquainting me with it though living near him . . in blazing it abroad that he had driven me to gross absurdities , which yet he hath not in his answer to the . sect . of of my praecursor or elsewhere shewed to be so . . in his light passing over my urging his own words against infant baptism , about christs institution mat. . . in my praecurs . p. . in his praefest . morat . sect . . which is noted in the d . part of the review , p. , . which sure being from christs institution , deserved better consideration . . in condemning our rejection of infant baptism , though but an humane tradition , on no better grounds then papists build many of their ceremonies which he condemns , in asserting the covenant of grace to the faithfull and their seed , which in disputes against arminians is commonly denied by contraremonstrants . ▪ in his many false accusations of me as a sect master disturber of the church , which he cannot prove , in his scornfull expressions in the dispute and his books , in his injurious insinuations of me , as if i were blinded or hardened , occasioned the rise of quakerism and other errours , thereby indirectly creating odium to me and to the truth , and which is worst of all , weakning my hands in the work of christ , and particularly in taking off my quondam hearers at bewdley from hearing me , or permitting me there to preach in publike . none of which , nor any of the rest of his evil suggestions of me or the people baptized there or elsewhere , i pray god may be laid to his charge . i have no more to add , but to commend the reading of this and the other parts of the review to thy care , hoping that as the differences between the cis-jordan and trans-jordan israelites , and peter and the circumcised christians were composed by right in●elligence of their actions , so it may be in this , and that god will awaken the eyes of those who have opposed the truth i assert , with devices of an anti-evangelical covenant of grace to believers and their seed , a law and ord●nance of infants visible church membership no where extant , of baptizing infants according to the jewish pattern of baptizing proselytes , of an additional promise of casting elect children on elect parents ordinarily , of a command in force now , gen. . . of baptisms succession to circumcision and fetching a rule from it , of baptisms confer●ing grace , &c. will discern their errour , and embrace that light which they have hitherto shut out , and laying aside their vain disputes about the baptizing of infants of not churchmembers , profane , excommunicate parents , or proparents and such like , endeavour to restore that one baptism which with that one faith once delivered to the saints , may bring the churches of god to a right constitution and holy unity and order , and without which a right reformation covenanted will not be , and that go●ly pa●ents of tender consciences will take heed of bringing infants to baptism whereby it is profaned , and discern that it is their own duty to be baptized in the name of christ , and that the use of baptism is , as mr. baxter confesseth p. of right to sacraments , yea essential to it to signifie and profess the saving faith and repentance of the baptized ( which sh●ws infants are not baptized , sith th●y do not that which is essential to baptism and that which is essential must be in all ) and not to look upon it as their childrens priviledge , but as it was by christ appointed , by it engage themselves to follow the lord jesus ; which is the prayer of thy loving brother and real servant in christ ; john tombes . the contents . sect. . the second argument against infant baptism that it is will worship is confirmed . sect. . dr. homes his arguments to prove infant baptism from gen . are examined . sect. . mr. drews argument for infant baptism from gen. . is examined , and it is shewed that there is not the same reason of infant baptism as of infant circumcision . sect. . the covenant gen. . , , , , . was a mixt covenant . sect. . acts . , . proves not either the identity of covenant now with that to abraham gen. . . as it comprehends his natural seed , nor the connexion between i● and ●aptizability . sect. . the argument of mr. josia● church in his divine warrant for infant baptism , ●om their being judged in the promise of propriety in god is answered . sect. . bare judgement of charity concerning a persons interest in the promise is not a warrant to baptize . sect. . acts . , . proves that interest in the promise intitles not to baptism without repentance . sect. . infants are not proved by mr. church to bee of the visible church christian. sect. . infants capacity of some respects different from discipleship intitles them not to baptism . sect. . the agreements between circumcision and baptism do not justifie infant baptism , and the validity of sealing infants with an initial seal is shewed to be null . sect. . dr. featley his argument for infant baptism from the covenant is examined . sect. . the arguments of mr. william lyford from the covenant for infant baptism are answered . sect. . the arguments of mr. stalham , mr. brinsley , mr. hall , and a nameless author from the covenant for infant baptism are examined . sect. . the dispute of mr. john geree about the extent of the gospel covenant to prove thence infant baptism is examined , and it is shewed that interest in the covenant did not intitle to circumcision ; nor is it proved it doth now to baptism . sect. . that the gospel covenant is not extended to infants of believers as such . sect. . mr. cottons , the assembly's , and london ministers way of arguing for infant baptism from the covenant and circumcision is recited , and the method of the future progress in the review expressed . sect. . mr. marshals reply to the first section of the d. part of my examen about the connexion between the covenant and seal is reviewed . sect. . mr. blakes exceptions against my speeches in the point about the connexion between the covenant and initial seal are refelled . sect. the exceptions which in the first part of my review or antipaedobaptism sect . . are made against the proof of connexion between the covenant and initial seal , are confirmed against mr. blake vind . faed . ch . . sect . . sect. . the ten exceptions of the first part of my review●gainst ●gainst paedobaptists exposition and allegation of acts . , . for the connexion between the covenant and seal , are vindicated from mr. blakes answer vindic . f●d . ch . , . sect. . animadversions on ch . . part . ▪ of mr. thomas cobbet his just vindication touching the explication of acts . , . in which his exposition is shewed to be vain , and mine justified . sect. . the arguments drawn from acts . , . against the connexion between covenant interest , and baptism right , and infant baptism are vindicated from mr. cobbets answers . sect. . mr. sidenham's notes on acts . . in his exercitation ch . . are considered . sect. . mr. marshals reply to my examen about his first connclusion is reviewed , and the covenant gen. . still maintained to be mixt , and that gentile self-justitiaries , though reputed christians , are not termed abraham's seed , nor gal. . . proves it , and that the distinction of outward and inward covenant is not right . sect. . the mixture of the covenant as by me asserted , is vindicated from mr. blakes exceptions vind . faed . ch . . sect. . the four first chapters of mr. sidenham's exercitation are examined , and his vanity in his conceits about consequences proving infant baptism , the purity of the covenant gen. . infants of believers being abrahams seed and in covenant is shewed . sect. . it is proved from luk. . , . & . . joh . . rom. . , , , , , , . gal. . , ● , . & . . rom . , , . matth . . that the seed of abraham to whom the pro●ise as evangelical is made gen. . are onely true believers o● elect persons . sect. . the allega●ion of rom. . , . matth. . , , . to prove that the seed to which the promise gen. . . as evangelical belong● are true believers or the elect onely is vindicated from mr. blakes answer vindic faed . ch . . and mr. sidenhams e●ercitation ch . . sect. . of the meaning of mr. marshals second conclusion , the ambiguity of which is shewed . sect. . of the novelty and vanity of mr. marshals and others doctrine about sacraments being seals of the covenant of grace , and the several sealings of them . sect. . the exceptions in my examen part . . sect . . against mr. marshals speeches about the covenant and conditional sealing , are made good against mr. marshal and m● blake . sect. . that it is no error , as mr. baxter calls it ; but a truth , that the covenant of grace is made onely to the elect . sect. . mr. baxter hath not proved that the absolute promise or covenant is not it that is sealed in baptism . sect. . my speech about gods sealing to none but believers , is cleered from mr. baxters objections . sect. . christianity is not by birth , nor the church as civil corporations , mr. marshals equivocation in the use of the term [ covenant of grace . ] sect. ● . that the promise gen. . . proves not an external priviledge of visible churchmembership and initial seal to infants of gentile believers , as mr. marshal asserts . sect. . animadversions on the d. ch . of the first part of mr. thomas cobbets just vindic . sect . , , . about gen. . whereby his positions about church covenant and external priviledges of the covenant of grace are refe●led . sect. . animadversions on sect . th . of the same chapter , whereby the conceits of mr. cobbet about external being in the covenant of grace , are shewed to be vain . sect. . animadversions on sect . . of the same ch . shewing that mr. cobbets supposed visible interest in gods covenant is not the rule of baptizing . sect. . animadversions on the th . sect . of the same ch . shewing that christ is not head of any unsound members , nor parents profession unites children to christ so as to entitle them to baptism . sect. . animadversions on sect . ●h . of the same ch . shewing that the body of the jewish church , even the worst of them , was not under the covenant of grace in respect of external interest therein . sect. . that the covenant at mount sinai was a covenant of works and not of evangelical grace , and that the jewish church and state were but one body . sect. . animadversions on the th . sect . of the same ch . in which the covenant interest external and ecclesiastical of infan●s of inchurched believers , is pretended not proved to be gospel , and his allegations of deut. . , &c. gen. . . luk. . . deut. . , &c. ezek. . , &c. gen. . , . and other places are examined . sect. . mr. cobbets answers to objections against his th . concl . part . . c. . sect . . of his just vindic . are considered , and mr. blakes tener concerning the general nature of a covenant that it i● a mutual agreement . sect. . the , , . chapters of mr. blakes vind . faed . are examined , and it is shewed that he hath not proved the covenant of grace in gospel times to admit or to be made to any but the elect regenerate . sect. . mr. blakes vindic . faed . ch . . concerning the stating the question of the birth ▪ privil●●ge of the issue of believers is examined , and his objections against my stating it removed . sect. . the th , and th . chapters of mr. blakes vindic . faed . are examined , and his arguments concluding the natural issue of believers to be taken into covenant are answered . sect. . the th . ch . of mr. baxters part . . of plain script . proof , &c. is examined , his conceits about infants visible churchmembership and their admission considered , and sundry animadversions made on that chapter . sect. . the . ch . of mr. brs. plain scrip &c. p. . is examined , and the texts gal. . , &c. mat. . . cleered so as to prove infants now no visible churchmembers . sect. . the arguments from altering of the jewish church constitution and call , the ceasing of the high priest , &c. to prove infants now no visible churchmembers , are made good against mr. baxters . ch . plain , &c. part . . sect. . it is proved that infants were not reckoned to the visible church christian in the primitive times , nor are now . sect. . letters between me and mr. baxter are set down , concerning the law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , which he as●●rt● , whereby the point is stated . sect. . infants were visible churchmembers onely in the congregation of israel . sect. . infants of the jews were not visible churchmembers by promise or precept , as mr. baxter teacheth . sect. . that the people and thereby the infants of the hebrews were made visible churchmembers by a transeunt fact , is made good against mr. baxters exceptions . sect. . mr baxters law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed is not proved from gen. . , , . or gen. . . sect. . infants visible churchmembership is not proved by the law of nature . sect. . the sayings of adam , eve , noah , concerning cain , seth , shem , the term [ sons of god , gen. . . ] prove not mr. baxters law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed . sect. . mr. baxters law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , is not proved from gen. . or . or . sect. . covenants , promises and speeches in the old testament of israel , the righteous , prove not mr baxters law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed . sect. . mr. baxters th . and th . questions about the repealableness and repeal of his imagined law of infants visible churchmembership , and his . additionals are answered sect. . mr. baxters ten calumniatory questions and the conclusion of his letter are answered . §ect . . my answer in the dispute and sermon to the argument of mr. baxter of baptism part . . ch . . about the nonrepeal of infants churchmembership because neither in justice nor in mercy is vindicated . §ect . . mr. baxters arguments from matth. . . revel . . . for infants visible churchmembership ch , , . are answered . §ect . . mr baxters th , th , th , concerning infants better condition in the n. t. in his th , , th , chapters part . . of baptism , to prove their visible churchmembership are answered . §ect . . mr. baxters argument ch . . part . . of baptism , from deut. . , , . is answered , and my answers vindicated . §ect . . neither from rom. . . nor by other teason , hath mr. baxter proved ch . . . part . . of baptism , that infant churchmembership was partly na●ural , partly grounded on the law of grace and faith . §ect . . mr. baxter ch . . by his th . argument from infants being once members of the universal visible church , hath not proved their visible churchmembership unrepealed . §ect . . mr. baxters th . and th . arguments from the promise of mercy exod . . . and of blessing psal. . . are answered . sect. . mr. baxters th . argument from the priori●y of infants church-membership before circumcision , his th . from gods mercy , his ● th . from blessing and cursing deut. . are answered . sect. . mr. baxters . argument from the absurdity of my doctrine making all infants members of the devils visible kingdome is answered . sect. . mr. baxters . argument ch . ● . that my doctrine leaves no ground of hope of salvation of infants dying is answered . sect. . mr. baxters allega●ions p. , , . shew not a stronger ground of hope of infants salvation so dying then mine , his d . argument ch . . his th . ch . . are answered . §ect . . my arguments to prove the ingraffing rom. . . ●o be into the invisible church by giving faith , are vindicated from mr. blakes exceptions vindic . faed . ch . . and mr. sidenhams exercit. ch . , . sect. . my sense of matrimonial holiness cor. . . is vindicated from mr. blakes exceptions vindic . faed . ch . and mr. sidenhams exercit. ch . . sect. . mr. william carters attempt of proving the christian sabbath from heb. . , , . is shewed to be successeless , and so useless for proof of infant baptism . sect. . mr. carters exposition of gen. . , , . as if god promised to make every believer a blessing , so as to cast ordinarily elect children on elect parents is refuted . sect. . neither did circumcision seal mr. carters additional promise , nor was abraham thence termed father of believers . §ect . . mr. carters conceit as if gen. . . were a command in force to abrahams spiritual seed in the n. t. is shewed to be vain . §ect . . the succession of baptism to circumcision , and their identity for substance to us is shewed to be unproved by mr. carter , mr. marshal , mr. church , dr. homes , mr. cotton , mr. fuller , mr. cobbet , from col. . , . or elsewhere . §ect . . notwithstanding mr. carters allegations of acts . , . cor. . . rom. . , . mark . . acts . . matth. . . the n. t. appears to be silent about mr. carters additional promise and infants baptism . §ect . ● . interest in the covenant gave not title to circumcision as mr. marshal in his th . concl would have it . §ect . . the enlargement of our priviledges proves not infant baptism as mr. marshal in his th . concl . would have it . §ect . . mr. cobbets dictates just. vindic . part . . ch . . touching childrens baptismal right are examined and refelled . §ect . the th . and th . chapters of the first part of mr. rutherfords book of the covenant are examined , and found to make nothing for infant baptism . §ect . . the disasters in germany and our present distractions sprung not from anabaptism as mr. crag saith . §ect . . austins saying about apostolical traditions is not to be rested upon , nor his testimony about the antiquity of infant baptism . §ect . . the testimonies of the ancient writers of the greek church concerning infant baptism are examined and my exception● made good against mr. crag , dr. hammond , dr. homes , mr. marshal . sect. . the arguments to prove infant baptism an innovation in the greek churches exam. p. . are made good against mr. marshal , and dr. homes . sect. . the testimonies of tertullian for infant baptism , and dr. hammonds interpretation of ch . . de animâ , are examined with cor. . . sect. . dr. hammonds imagined evidence from [ hath been sanctified ] for his sense of the forepart of cor. . . nullified , and my opinion of enallage of tense vindicated . sect. . dr. hammonds rendring [ by cor. . ▪ ] is refelled , and my ●endring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ to ] justified . sect. . it is shewed that dr. hammond hath no proof from cor. . . for his sense of the forepart of v. . nor will his sense of holy for baptized agree with the apostles argument , though his sense of the forepart of the verse were granted . sect. . dr. hammonds reasons from the terms holy and unclean for his sense of baptized or not baptized are refelled . sect. . the jewish custome of baptism for initiation was not the pattern of christian baptism , as dr. hammond would have it . sect. . matth. . . infants are excluded from being subjects of baptism notwithstanding dr. hammonds pretensions . sect. . the testimonies of cy●rian , augustin , and other latin fathers for infant baptism , are shewed to have come from their mist●kes , and the evidences why the antiquity of infant baptism should not be deemed such as is pretended , are vindicated . sect. . mr. crags objections about my nine untruths , his discourse about rebaptizing are refelled . sect. . the arguments of mr. crag for infant baptism are re-examined . errata . pag ; . l , . r , he premiseth . p , . l , . r , . p , . l , . r , nor is ; l , . r , . p , . l , . r , mere . p , . l , . r , motive ; l , . r , they are vain . p , . l , . r , not onely . p , . l , . r , yea ▪ p , . l , . r , commenders ; l , . r , opinion ; l , . r , probability ; l , . r , disputation ; l , . r , external . p , . l , . r , . l , . r , . l , . r , speci . p , . l. . r. . . p , . l , . r , peculiar ; l , . r , . p , . l , . r , seal . p , . l , . r , conveys . p , . l , . r , ejection . p , . l , . r , not sealed . p , . l , , . the lines are misplaced p , . l , . r , and not still be admitted to the like initiating sacrament . p , . l , . r , erant . p , . l. ● . r , own . p , . l , . r , persecuted ; l , . r , some . p , . l , . r. p , . l , . r find . p , . l , . r , fiction ; l , . r , wont . p . l , . r , invisible : p , . l , . r swerved . p , . l , . r , then ; l , , . r , apposite . p , . l , . r , par . p , . l , . r , he tels . p , . l , . r , baxter . p , . l , . r , app●site . p , . l , . r , remission of sins . p , . l , . r , incognitum , p , . l , ● . r , number . p , . l , . r , eyed . p , . l , r , mislike ; l , . r apposite . p , . l , . r , meant by ; l , . r , comprehended . p , ● . l , . r , dichotomie . p , . l , . r , branches , d ▪ and. p , . l , . d , or the inward . p , . l , . d , not . p , . l , . r , they , l , . r , unbaptizable . p , . l , . r , belong . p , . l , . r , of this . p , . l , . r , seed , which ; l , . r , because and as . p , . l , . r , that knows . p , . l , , . r , doth not agree : p , . l , . r , regenerate : p , . l , . r , rom. . . p , . l , . r , now : p , . l , . r , visible : p , . l , . r , type : p , . l , ● . r , is not : p , . l , ▪ r , abrohamites antecedently : p , . l. . r , pentance neither have ours ; l , , r , nor is : p , . l , . r , l. c. l , . r , e.g. p , . l , . r , mediation : p , . l , . r , revelation ; l , . r , of science or : l , , r ▪ an act ; l , , r , contenting : p , . l , . r , types of christ ; l , . r , hath not ; l , . r , in this ; l , . r , alluded : p , . l. . r , me to : p , . l , . d ▪ not : p , . l , . r , vent ; l , , . r , syncretism : p , . l , . d , not ; l , . r , derive ; l , . r , to be a seal be : p , . l , . r , term ; l , . r , jews : p , . r. l , . r , he had : r , . l , . r , our ; l , . r , passing ; l , . r , if it ▪ p , . l , . r , . p , . l , . r , p ▪ p , . l , . r , in my ; l , . r , reviewed : p , ● . l , . r. flings : p , . l , . d , not ; l , . r , and seals ; l , . r , cerning : p , . l , . r , first grace ; l , . r , what sense : p , . l , ● . r , contradistinguisheth : p , ● . l , . d , not ▪ l , . r , asserting : p , . l , . r , as . p , . l , . r , there , l , . r , and not : p , . l , . r , charged : p , . l , . r , & ward . p , , l , . r , 〈◊〉 : p , . l , . r , . l , , . r , all at age p , . l , . r , my ; l , . r , instance , l , ● . r , stony : p , . l , . r , futility : p , . l , . r , it were ; l , . d , to ; l , . r , sealing : p , . l , . r , ly ; l , . r , that ▪ l , . d , i : p , ● . l , . r , reason i● ; l , ● . r , and the : p , . l , . r , art : p , ● . l , . r , external : p , l , . d , not : p , . l , . r , during the ; l , , . d , in the right administration of it : p , . l , . r , no where ; l , . r , elect allusive : p , . l , . r , afore . l , . r , contain ; l , . r , it proper to israel : p , . l , . r , but that such are to be ; l , . r , act is a ; l , . r , they are : p , . l , r , were : p , . l . r , without that ; l , . r , john : p , . l , . r , professor : p , ● . l , . r. or : p , l. . d , and ; l , . r , yea under yet were : p , . l . r , was ; l , r , that which , l , . r , visible interest : p , . l , ult . r , noting p , . l , . r , unto : p , . l , . r , winding : p , . l , . r , expected : p , . l , . r , no transgressors : p , . l , . r , know not : p , . l , . r , of grace : p , . l , . r , come : p ▪ . l , . r , meer professor : p , . l , ▪ r , is a seal to the gentiles that believe of the righteousness of faith though they be never circumcised ; l , . r , were such ; l , . d , were : p , . l , . r , are : p , . l , . r , inference ; l , . r , exilia : p , . l , . r , assert ; l , . r , whence ; l , . r , tenet : p , , l , . r , condition . at yy the figures are wrong by reason of the use of two pres●es ; for after . sect . . is p , . ag●in : p , . l. . r , of which ▪ p , . l , . r , vasorum : p , ● . l , . r , desert : p , . l , . r , ever : p , . l , . r , to : p , . l , . r , nor : p , . mis●printed . l , . r , unto what : p , . l , . r , indefinitely : p , . l , . r , special : p , . l , . r , desertion : p , . l , . r , mere : p , . l , . r , cause : p , . l , . r , of all : p , . l , . r , he is : p , . l , . r , many : p , . l , . r , use no : p. . l , . r , churchmembers : p , . l , . r , on condition : p , . l , penult . r , righteousness : p , . l , . r , can : p , . l , . r , not : p. . l , . r , it was . p , . l , . r. who hath . p , . l , . r , is not . p , . l , . r , sarcastical . p , . l , . r , an . p , . l , . r , might well . p , . l , . r , there . p , . l , . r , import . p , . l , . r , concrete . p , . l , . r , deny . p , . l , . r , sanction . p , . l. . r , did not . p , . l , . r , were not . p , . l , . r ▪ benefit . p , . l , . d , not . p , . l , . r , the time . p , . l , . r , is . p , . l , . r , there . p , . l , . r , formally . p , . l , . r , there . p , ▪ l , . r , janua . p , . l , . r , there were . p , . l , . r , ambigua . p , . l , . d , of . p , . l , . r , not . p , . l , . r , one parent was . p , . l , . d , be . p , . l , . r , which it was ; l , . r , na●i . p , . l , . r , and also . p , . l , . r , inference which . p , . l , . r , of the chair . p , ● . l , ● . r , . p , . l , . r , ca●achresis . p , . l , . d , in ; l , . r , form ▪ p , . l , . r , pu● . p , . l , . r , comprehend . p , . l , . r , or not . p , . l , . r , not ●s . p , . l , . r , denegandam . p , . l , . r , desert . p , . l , . r , conten● . books published by the author . christs commination against scandalizers , on luk. . , . printed for richard royston , at the sign of the angel in ivy lane , london . jehovah ●ireh , o● , gods providence in delivering the godly ; in two sermons on pet. . . on occasion of preserving bristol from a plot to deliver it to prince rupert , march . . printed for michael sparks at the blew bible in green arbour , london . fermentum pharis●orum , or , the leaven of pharisaical will-worship ; in a sermon on matth. . . printed for andrew crook at the green dragon in pauls church-yard , london . anthropolatria , or the sin of glorying in men ; on cor. . . printed for john bellamy , at the three golden lions in cornhil , london . two treatis●s concerning infant baptism , to wit ▪ an exercitation , and examen of mr. stephen marshals sermon ; printed for george whittington , and to be sold at the blackmore at fleet-b●idge london by w. larnar . an apology for the two treatises , printed for g. calvert at the black spread eagle at the west end of pauls , london . an antidote against the venome of a passage of mr. richard baxter , printed for thomas brewster at the three bibles at the west end of pauls , london . an addition to the apology in a letter to mr. robert baillee of scotland : printed by henry hills , next door to the sign of the peacock in aldersgate-street , london . pracursor , or a fore-runner to the review : printed for the same . antipaedobaptism , or the first part of the full review of the dispute concerning infan● baptism : printed for henry crips and lodowick lloyd in popes-head alley near lumbard-street , london . a plea for antipaedobaptists , against mr. john craggs dispute and sermon at abergavenny : printed for henry hills above named . antipaedobaptism , or the second part of the full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism : printed for the same . joannis tombes be●dleiensis refutatio positionis dris . henrici savage londini : typi● henrici hills . antipaedobaptism , or the the third part of the full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism : london , printed for henry hills above named . finis . anti-paedobaptism : or , the third part of the full review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism , refuting the proof of it from circumcision and the covenant . sect . i. the second argument against infant-baptism , that it is will-worship , is confirmed . having proceeded so far in the review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism , as to vindicate the texts , rom. . . act. , . cor. . . from such glosses as tend to wrest them to the maintenance of it , and to make good my first argument against it , from the institution of christ , mat. . . mark. . . the apostles and primitive evangelists practice and sayings , in two parts of the review already printed , i go on to the finishing of the rest of the forementioned review . my second argument against infant-baptism is thus formed , that which is will-worship is not agreeable to the will of god , nor according to the rule of baptizing : but the ordinary baptizing of infants , though by a lawful minister , is will-worship . ergo. the major is proved , . from col. . . where will-worship is disallowed by the apostle , and so generally commentators and other authors account will-worship a sin . doctor lakes defence about the sabbath , thes. . ye know that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did never please god ; yet doctor hammond in his treatise of will-worship , will have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or will-worship , to be understood in the better sense . but against it are the fra●● of the apostles words , and the drift of them , which is to blame them for being subject to ordinances after the doctrines and commandments of men , as not agreeing with a christians co-dying with christ ; and he saith , such things have a shew of wisdom : and verse . he that promiseth that none do beguile them of thei● reward 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , willing in humility , or as our translators , in a voluntary humility . i may not now divert from the present business to examine doctor hammonds allegations , there being enough in that text to prove , service as done to god , invented by men , and practised after their commands , without gods appointment , not to be after gods will : and i take doctor hammond to be well answered by mr. cawdrey . . however the major is plainly proved from christs words , mat. . . in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrine mens precepts ; which proves that worship which is taught after mens precepts ( which is the same with will-worship in my proposition ) is in vain , and therefore not agreeable to the will of god. but i need not say any more about it , sith my antagonists do most of them except against will-worship as a sin . the minor is proved thus , that which is worship not appointed by god , is will-worship : but the ordinary baptizing of infants of believers , churched or unchurched , though by a lawful minister , is worship not appointed by god. ergo. the major is confirmed from the very definition of will-worship , which is , a worship of god nor appointed by him , but taken up according to the command of man , out of mat. . . the minor is proved , by demanding a scripture wherein god appointed infant-baptism . in answer hereto , in conference with me , it was once denied that infant-baptism was used as a worship of god : but if so , then it is no holy thing , no sacrament , no profaneness to contemn it , no matter if a midwife do it , with many more of the like absurdities . master blake in his answer to my letter ch . . pag. . vindic. foed . ch . . denies infant-communion , bell-baptism , to be will-worship , he makes will-worship then when men devise an ordinance , but not when it is onely an abuse , profanation , misapplication of an instituted worship to a wrong subject . and master marshall page . of his defence , would put me to prove , that all things belonging to christian worship , even in the circumstances of it , even the ages and sexes of the persons to whom the ordinances are to be applyed , must be expressely set down in the n. t. pag. . there is no absolute necessity , that every circumstance of an ordinance , or the several sexes or ages to whom an ordinance ought to be applied , must be set down in precept , or apostolical example equivalent to a precept , found in the n.t. pag. . the point about infant-baptism toucheth but a circumstance of age . in which speeches mr. m. seems to make infant-baptism but an arbitrary circumstance ; and if so , then much injury was in the first use of his sermon , in which he made the denial of infant-baptism , odious , as if it were as bad or worse than the facts of herod , and hazael in slaying infants ; then much guilt of oppression lies on them that have denied place in the ministery , scourged , imprisoned , fined , banished , put to death men for opposing , or not owning infant-baptism ; and very unrighteous have been their declamations , who in pulpits and elsewhere have inveighed against them as hereticks , sectaries , &c. censured their opinion as intolerable , as maresius qu. . their practice as sacrilege , as master blake vindic . foed . ch . . if master m. do indeed think the point of infant-baptism to touch but a circumstance of age , and that it needs no divine institution , then it is an indifferent ceremony with him , such as the power of the church may appoint , and if so , it is no otherwise blameable to omit it , than it is to omit any other church-constitution . but the truth is , it is false which he saith , that the matter toucheth onely a circumstance of age : for indeed it toucheth the qualification of the person to be baptized ; and the very end and use of baptism ( which are the essentials of it , as it is a sacrament ) which is , that the person baptized , do thereby testifie his profession of repentance and faith in christ , and covenant to be his , as appears by the very phrase used , of being baptized into the name of the trinity , mat. . . compared with cor. . . as i have proved before , part . sect. . and were it a circumstance onely of age , yet it being determined by christ , who are to be baptized , to wit , disciples and belie●●●s , it is an arrogant presumption to alter it . rightly saith chamie● panstr . tom . ● lib. . c. . sect. . quae non sunt institutae circumstantiae habeto sane sibi ecclesia , ut tempus locumque celebrandi , & si quae sunt similia . at quae instituta sunt ea ne moveto . as for m. blakes speech , that a misapplication of 〈◊〉 instituted ordinance to a wrong subject , is an abuse or profanation of it , but not will-worship , . it is not right . for though every misapplication to a wrong subject of an instituted ordinance be not will-worship , yet a misapplication to a wrong subject of an instituted ordinance is a will-worship , when not onely the rite it self is made worship of god , but also the application of it to that subject , though it be but mens invention , yea and such a one as alters the end and use of the ordinance ▪ as is in infant baptism , bell-baptism , altar-baptism , infant-communion , prayer , sacrifice , vows , keeping solemn feasts , offering incense , building altars , were instituted ordinances , yet jeroboams sacrificing and keeping a feast at another time than god appointed , ahaz his forming an altar after the pattern of that at damascus , nadab and abihu their offering strange fire , prayer to saints , for the dead , vowes to saints , monastick profession after such a rule , keeping of holy dayes to saints , and many other things among pagans , and papists , are : condemned as will-worship . generally protestants , even the assembly in their conffession of faith , chap. . art . . make the lifting up , reserving the elements in the eucharist , contrary to matth. . . and chap. . they say , the acceptable way of worshiping the true god is instituted by himself , and so limited to his own revealed will , that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men , or suggestions of satan , under any visible representations , or any other way not prescribed in the holy●scripture ; yea the non-conformists have gone further in so censuring the three ceremonies , cross at baptism , kneeling at the lords supper , the wearing the surplice in holy ministrations , to be will-worship , as the abridgement of the lincolnshire ministers petition , and other writings shew , and d. morton in his defence , and d. burges in his rejoynder to the reply , chap. . and elsewhere , acquit them onely from will-worship , in that they placed not holiness in them , made them not necessary parts of worship , which i presume m. blake will not say of infant-baptism , the denial of which he counts , though vainly , to be sacrilege , vindic. foed . chap. . and sure baptisms were instituted ordinances among the jews , heb. . . yet our lord christ applies the prophets censure of will-worship , isai. . . against the pharises placing holiness and fear of god in their washings of hands and other things so often and in the manner they used . mark. . , , , , , , . secondly , were it granted , that it is not properly will-worship to misapply an instituted ordinance to a wrong subject , yet if it be an abuse or profanation , the matter is no whit mended with m. blake , if i put in my argument instead of the term ( will-worship ) the term ( profanation or abuse ) i presume paedobaptists will not justify a profanation or abuse , which infant-baptism is acknowledged to be if it be not after gods appointment or christs institution . wherefore m. m. and the most of the paedobaptists , not trusting to these evasions seek for an appointment of infant-baptism in the institution of infant-circumcision , gen. . yet m. baxter in his p●●in scripture proof , part . . chap. . &c. declines the command of circumcision for proof of infant-baptism , and imagins an ordinance of their visible church-membership , distinct from the ordinance of circumcision , unrepealed , out of which he endeavours to prove infant-baptism , though he no where that i know shew us where that ordinance is , notwithstanding in my praecursor and elsewhere he hath been often pressed to shew it , which book of m. b. taking so much , that a third edition is printed , i had hoped paedobaptists would have stuck to his way , and declined the other way of analogy of the command of circumcision . but i see latter books , as m. sidenham , m. fuller , and others , still insisting on the hypothesis concerning the covenants and the seal , and baptisms succession to circumcision , &c. m. gataker in his latin treatise against d. ward about the force and efficacy of infant-baptism , though by his epistle ▪ it appears he had seen m. baxters books , yet p. . he speaks thus to d. ward . i would you had specially designed the command concerning the baptizing the infants of believers , which you mean. for although from the analogy of circumcision , and the nature of this very sacrament , as it is destined to initiation , the comprehension of infants in the covenant of grace &c. i deservedly believe both the antient church to have used , and the church at this day justly to use infant-baptism , yet hitherto i have found no speciall command concerning this thing . i wish he had formed and confirmed his proof for infant-baptism from the analogy of circumcision , &c. so antient , learned a man , and so accurate in controversies , me thinks should have yielded some better proof for infant-baptism than others have don , or have forborn calling them novel sectaries who with so much endeavour oppugn infant-baptism ( which is the expression in his epistle to the reader ) and with-held his hand from subscribing to that attestation wherein the four positions of my examen were censured as erroneous and pernicious . but not meeting with any other proof than this , i shall keep on in the review of the dispute , and examine the pretended institution of infant-baptism out of the old testament , taking in some texts of the new , and first examine the way of proof by analogy of circumcision , which seems to have been the assemblies way , and then m. bs. more refined way , as is imagined , desiring the reader to take notice of what was before disputed in the second section of the second part of this review , to prove that consequences drawn from analogy between meer positive rites of the old and new testament to prove a duty in the use of them , without particular institution , are not good . sect . ii. dr. homes his arguments to prove infant-baptism from gen. . are examined . two wayes i finde consequences framed , one in arguments formed syllogistically , the other in certain conclusions or hypotheses from whence it is conceived they may deduce infant-baptism . i begin with the former way . i had formed the argument from gen. . . &c. three wayes , in my exercit. sect. , , . and that without disadvantage to my antagonists , notwithstanding d. homes his exceptions . but i am content to view the forms d. homes sets down , as more agreeable to their minde . in his animadversion on my exerc. chap. . pag. . he saith , our first form of argument from gen. . . &c. is this . where there is a command for a thing never remanded on contramanded , there the thing is still in force . but there is a command for signing the infants of a believer with the sign of the covenant of grace , gen. . , . never yet remanded or contramanded : therefore the signing believers children with the sign of the covenant of grace ( namely baptism now ) is still in force . to which i answer , . the conclusion is not of the thing in question , which is not of the children of believers , but of the infant-children of believers , as it was in the minor , now a person of . years of age is a believers child , as well as one of two dayes old . . in the minor ( the sign of the covenant of grace commanded ) is understood , either of the sign of the covenant of grace expressed in the conclusion , to wit , baptism , and if so , it is denied that there is any such command , gen. . , . to sign with the sign of the covenant of grace believers infants , there 's no command but of circumcising the manchild of eight dayes old , not a tittle of baptism : or else of a sign of the covenant of grace there expressed , and if so , the minor is denied , that the command for signing the infants of a believer with the sign of the covenant of grace , gen. . , . was never yet remanded or contramanded . it was expressely contramanded acts . . gal. . , , . if in the conclusion by ( the sign of the covenant of grace ) be meant as the words ( namely baptism now ) import , the rite of christian baptism , and in the minor it be meant of the command of circumcision , then there is a fault of the syllogism in the form , it consisting of four terms . if in the minor i● be meant of the sign of the covenant indefinite , which is neither baptism nor circumcision , i deny there is such a command , gen. . , . and the syllogism hath also fourth terms . two other forms he hath pag. . . form of argument from gen. . is this . to whom the covenant in force runs in the same tenour in the new testament as in the old , to them the application of the first sign or seal of the new testament may be applied ▪ as well as the first of the old testament : but this tenour of the covenant of grace still in force , is as true , and doth as truely run to a believing gentile , i am thy god and the god of thy seed , as it did to abraham the father of believing gentiles , rom. . gal. . ergo , the first seal of the covenant may be applied to believers children , now in the new testament as well as in the old to abrahams . the major is plain in gen. . the tenor of the covenant , and the application of the first seal , are knit into a dependence one upon another . i am the god of thee , and thy seed , v. , . therefore thou shalt circumcise every male , v. . &c. the minor is unquestioned of any that i know . answer . the thing to be concluded was , that baptism may be applied , but baptism and the first seal of the covenant i do not take to be all one . baptism or circumcision i do no where finde in scripture called the seal of the covenant , much less the first seal , and why the blood of christ , or the spirit of christ , or the oath of god may not be called the first seal of the covenant as well as these , i know not ; again the conclusion was to be ( may be applied to infant-children of believers ) where as the conclusion is ( may be applyed to believers children ) and the thing to be concluded was simply ( baptism may be applied to infants of believers ) whereas it is propounded comparatively ( now in the new testament as well as in the old to abraham ) now baptism was not applied to abraham , and therefore the conclusion may be granted ( baptism may be applied to infants of believers now as well as to abraham ) that is , just never a whit , sith it was never applied to abraham . . but besides , if the phrases ( to whom the covenant in force runs &c. ) in the major , and in the minor , ( doth as truely run to a believing gentile ) ( as the words carry it ) be meant onely of the believer , and in the major ( the application to them ) be meant onely of the believing gentile as in the minor , then there are more than three term● in the syllogism , ( applied to believers children ) beeing not at all in either of the premises . but if it be put in the major ( may be applied to them and their infants ) and in the minor ( to a believing gentile and his infant children ) i deny both major and minor. nor the major proved from gen. . , , . as in my answer to m. bailee , sect. . in my ample disquisition sect . is made manifest , by shewing the nullity of the pretended connexion between the covenant and the seal ; the term ( therefore ) gen. . . ) may be read ( and ) and it hath not reference to the promise onely , v. . but to the rest of the promises , v , , , , . or rather to the whole covenant , and the making of it , and it imports not a right by vertue of the covenant , but a motive inforcing a command , and this command being of circumcising the male onely of . dayes old , shewes there is not a connexion between the covenant and seal , sith then it would belong to the female and male of the seventh day , they being in covenant as well as the male of the eighth . the minor he takes as unquestioned , but i deny it , till i finde it better proved than yet i have done . i omit the uncoutheness of the phrase ( to them the application of the first sign may be applied ) and leave the d. to make good sense of it , which i cannot do . his . form of argument from gen. . is , where there is the same reason of a precept , there may be the same practice : but the promise which is the reason of the precept runs in the new testament ( as flowing from gen. . ) to believers and their children , the promise is to you and your children , acts. . . ergo. answer . what is the conclusion he would prove he leavs to be gathered . it should be , infants of believers are to be baptized . but then the predicate in the conclusion would be found in neither of the premisses . for the precept gen. . . is onely that male infants of . days old of abrahams house should be circumcised . but a little after he puts this as the conclusion , that the same reason on which the administration of circumcision was grounded , the administration of baptism was grounded . which i grant true in this sense , that as the reason why circumcision was administred to infants was the command of god , so the reason why baptism is to be administred to believers , is the command of christ. but the d. would have it thus , that as infants were to be circumcised by vertue of the promise , gen. . . so infants of believers are to be baptized by vertue of the same promise repeated acts . . concerning which , to omit the monstrosity of his syllogism , in which there are more than terms , and neither the predicate nor subject in the conclusion , major or minor , his speeches are without proof or trueth . for . it is not true , where there is the same reason of a precept there may be the same practice . for levit. . , , , , , , , , , . are precepts concerning mosaical ceremonies or observances , as of offering a sacrifice , of peace offerings , not reaping the corners of the field , not sowing the field with mingled seed , not wearing a garment of linnen and woollen , not eating fruit of trees planted till the fourth yeer , not eating any thing with the blood , not rounding the corners of the head , reverencing the sanctuary , to wit , the tabernacle or temple , and these with other moral precepts mixed among them in the same chapter , have in sundry of those verses , and the beginning and end of the chapter , this as the common reason , i am the lord , and yet we are not by the same reason tied to all the practices . . he doth not prove that the promise , acts . . is the same with the promise , gen. . . it is more likely to be either the promise , act. . , , . or act. . . or act. . . which were eminent promises , and related to the covenant of grace . . he doth not prove that ( to you , act. . . ) is ( to you believers and to your children ) that is , the infants of believers as such : it doth not appear they were then believers when these words were spoken . . nor is there a word that shews the promise was to them or their children , whether called or no. . nor is it proved that the promise to abraham and his seed , gen. . . was the onely reason of the precept , vers . , . . if it were so proved , it is not proved , nor ever can be , that it was the formal adequate reason , why an infant was circumcised . . nor is there the least hint in the words , act. . , . that the reason why a person hath right to be baptized , is barely the being of the promise to that person , or gen. . , , . any hint that the promise barely of it self , did either give right to circumcision , or oblige to the duty , but in both places it is brought as a motive to excite to that duty , which the precept alone was the formal reason of , and in the former as well of repentance as of being baptized . so that when the doctor hath formed his arguments , they are but mishapen things , having many ambiguities of speech , little or no proof for what he saith . and notwithstanding the doctors cavils , i yet think the arguments from gen. . were better formed by me in my exercitation for paedobaptists advantage , than by the doctor in his animadversions : but perhaps we may finde the arguments better formed elsewhere . sect . iii. master drew's argument for infant-baptism from gen. . is examined , and it is shewed , there is not the same reason of infant-baptism , as of infant-circumcision . master john drew is one of those to whose writings master baxter refers me , and is said by the author of the lawfulness of obeying the present government , to have written with sharp reasons and mild language . let 's see how he hath disputed pag. . of his serious address ; where there is the same reason of a precept or command enjoyning any practice continued , there may and must be the same practice continued : but the reason of the command for signing infants of covenanters with the first signe or seal of the covenant under the old testament continues still in force for that practice under the new testament . therefore now that command is in force to all persons in covenant , as it was then . answ. the command in force then to all persons in covenant , is expressed by himself in the words before , pag. . . the command of circumcision , gen. . , . when he saith ( all the infants of those in covenant with god were signed with the first signe or seal of the covenant then instituted and commanded by the lord , which was circumcision ) so that if he mean , as his words are , this is his meaning in his conclusion ( that command which is gen. . , ● . to circumcise the flesh of the foreskin of abrahams males of eight dayes old , is now in force to all persons in covenant , as well as it was then ) which neither hath nor can have any other sense ( taking words as they are used by other men ) but that still all in covenant with god , are bound by th● command , gen. . , . to circumcise their male children of eight dayes old ; which is to maintain that which the apostles have abro●●ted , act. . to intangle us with the yoak of bondage , which the apost●e saith , would make christ unprofitable to us , gal. . , , . but it will be said , he means not the command of circumcision , but the command of signing with the first sign or seal of the covenant . ans. if he means so , he rather juggles than disputes . for the words speak of the command , which is gen. . , . and that is no other than of circumcision ; no such command of signing infants of covenanters with the first signe or seal of the covenant in the old testament , besides that of circumcision , is either there or any where else that i know of ; if there be let it be shewed . but this is the manner of paedobaptists , in their disputes to imagine a command of sealing , as they call it , with the first seal , the infants of covenanters abstractively or distinctly from circumcision in the old testament , gen. . which is indeed a meer fiction , with which they mock their auditors and readers , who unwarily take what they say without examination . now this were an answer sufficient to this argument ; yet because this mans reasoning is so commended , let 's view his proofes . for proof of the major thus he writes . for when god giveth the reason of any command , that reason is the ground of the command ; and till that reason ceaseth , he is very bold with god , that dare exempt himself from the practice . and again , if the first proposition be denied , viz , where there is the same reason of a precept continued , there must be the same practice , then every man may set himself free from any command of god , and who can say unto him , what doest thou ? for the lord commands nothing without a reason , if there be no reason exprest , the reason of his will is implyed , which is as cogent and binding as all reasons in the world , till he makes it appear that it ceaseth . this is very clear . answ. the reason of a command may be understood , either of the reason why cod commands a thing , or the reason why we are bound to observe that command . the reason why god commands is various , sometimes one thing , sometimes another , sometimes expressed , sometimes concealed . and sometimes the same reason is given of very various commands , as i said before ( i am the lord your god ) is levit. . the promiscuous reason of moral and ceremonial and judicial commands ; yea that the very reason which pet. . , , . is given for the command to be obedient children , not fashioning themselves according to their lusts in their ignorance , but to be holy in all manner of conversation , is cit●d from levit. . , . and is the very reason why he forbids the israelits to eat certain meats , or to touch certain things unclean by the law. and therefore by master drew's reasoning ( the reason of the precept not ceasing ) we are bound still to the precept , levit. . of abstaining from meats unclean by the law , and from touching things legally defiling . but though there may be many motives to do it the rather , yet the onely formal adequate reciprocal reason why we are bound to observe any thing , is the command of our lord revealed to us . besides which , we are to look no further , nor are we to neglect it , till by some declaration of his will , it appears we are discharged . thus abraham was bound to offer his son isaac on the altar , because of gods command , without knowing any other reason ; yea though he had known the reason from the end to be fulfilled , yet he had not been discharged till god signified it by the angel , that he should not slay him . now then to master drews argument . i● he understand the reason of the precept in the first sense his major is false ; the reason why god gave a precept may continue , and yet the practice is not to continue , as levit. ▪ , . on the otherside the reason of a precept may not reach , and yet the precept reach ; as though god brought not us out of egypt , which is the reason of the command , deut. . , . yet the command pertains to us , and vers . . it is said , remember that thou wast a bondman in egypt , therefore the lord thy god commanded thee to keep the sabbath day . where i presume master drew will say the command reacheth us , though the reason of it do not . and as for his inference , that if it be denied , where there is the same reason of a precept there must be the same practice , then every man may set himself free from any command of god , it is true , if by the same reason of a precept , he understand the reason of a precept in the second sense , for the reason why we are bound to observe his precept , to wit , the declaration of gods will it should continue : but if he understand it in the first sense , for that reason which god gives , why he declared his will , and bound us to observe it , though it continue . yet the precepr may not be in force , nor on the other side doth the precept alwayes cease to binde , though that reason cease , as is proved before . now that reason of the precept gen. . , . which is vers . , , , , . is a reason of the first sort , and not of the latter . and indeed in more positive rites which are by institution the precept continues not in force , however rhe reason god used to inforce it , remaine , except the institution be continued . rightly pareus comm . in gen. . . to an objection , that sacrifices are to be continued , because the cause is perpetual , answereth , the perpetual cause of a thing necessarily co-hering with the thing , as a cause continued with its effect , makes the same perpetual . but the said causes or ends do not so co-here with the sacrifies of the ancients , but onely by appointment , that is divine ordination , which was that those sacrifices should be the confirmation of the faith of the fathers , and a signification of gratitude , unto the coming of the messiah , &c. the like may be said of the ends of circumcision , and the occasion of appointing it . but let us view master drew's proof of the minor , the reason ( saith he ) of the command for signing infants of believers under the law , with the first signe or seal of the covenant , was this promise , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , as is evident , gen. . , . compared with the . . and . verses , where this promise of god , and the application of the first seal are knit into a dependence one upon another : i will establish my covenant between me and thee , &c. to be a god unto thee and thy seed after thee ; therefore thou shalt circumcise every male , as a token of the covenant , vers . but this same reason of the command continues in force under the gospel ; god doth as truely say to every believing gentile now , i am thy god and the god of thy seed , as he did to abraham the father of believing gentiles , so he is called rom. . . therefore i may conclude , that believers under the gospel , have the same command for signing their infants with the first seal of the covenant of promise ( which now is baptism ) as abraham had to signe his under the law with the first signe , &c. which then was circumcision ; and now sirs , if the blessing of abraham be come upon you , and if you be heirs according to the promise , you may easily finde a command for baptizing your infant seed . answ. if master drew would prove what is to be proved , he should prove that the proper formal reason obliging to the duty of circumcision , gen. . , , . was the promise , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed after thee . but that is false . for the formal reason being put , the thing is put without any other thing , and it being not put , the thing is not put , though other things be put . but if the promise had been put , yet abraham had not been obliged to circumcise , unless a command were put , and the command being put , abraham was bound to circumcise , though god had made no promise . therefore , though the promise might be a motive to do it , yet as master mars●all truely confesseth , defence of his sermon pag. . the formal reason of the jews being circumcised was the command ; and therefore till master drew shew we have the same command to baptize infants , as abraham had to circumcise infants , he can never shew we have the same or equal reason for infant-baptism , as was for infant-circumcision . but master drew thinks to prove his minor from gen. . , . compared with the , , . vers . where it is evident ( saith he ) this promise of god , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , and the application of the first seal , are knit into a dependence one upon another . but he doth but dictate without any cleer explication , or thorough consideration of what he saith . for . he doth not plainly tell us , that the dependence he imagines to be one upon another of the application of the first seal and the promise , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , is upon that promise alone , and not upon the other promises , vers . , , , . and if he do so mean , yet he brings nothing to p●ove it , and it ●s unequal he should expect we should take it on his word , sith if we gather any thing from the placing of the words , the reason of the command , vers . , , , . may as well be from the promise of giving him and his seed the land o● canaan , vers . . as the promise , vers . . . whereas the promise vers . . hath diverse senses , one , so as to be meant of abraham as a natural father , and his seed according to the flesh , another , of abraham as a spiritual father , and his spiritual seed , he neither brings a word , nor do i think can , why the reason of the command , vers . , , , . should be from the promise made to abraham as a spiritual father , and to his spiritual seed ( which alone is for his purpose to bring gentile-believers children to be in the promise ) rather than to abraham as a natural father and to his natural seed , especially those of them that were to inherit the land of canaan : yea it is manifest , that if the dependence were , as he saith , it is to be interpreted of abrahams seed by nature , sith the command there was given to the natural seed of abraham only , and them that joyned to them . . nor doth mr. drew shew what dependence one upon another they are knit into , whether contingent or necessary , or if necessary , in what degree of necessity , whether , de omni per se or quatenus ipsum . this last seems to be most likely , and the dependence this , to whomsoever that promise is made , that person is to have the first seal ; and whosoever is to have the first seal , to that person the promise is made . but this were evidently false . for it appears from v. . that the promise was not made to ishmael , and yet he was to have the first seal , & others of abrahams house had not the promise who were to be signed with circumcision , and the females had the promise made to them , and yet were not to be signed . if it be said they were vertually signed , it serves not master drew's turn , who asserts a dependence of the promise and actual signing in the person federate . . nor doth he shew from what term or words his imagined dependence is evident . the onely term i know , he or any other gathers the supposed dependence from , is vers . . ( therefore ) but in the hebrew it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in the most usual sense is , and thou , noting a further addition to his speech , not an illation of one thing from another . and so the tigurines read & tu , and thou , pareus tu autum , but thou , piscator , tu vero , thou verily . so that the evidence is very small , which is from so uncertain a light . . nor doth he nor can he shew from the comparing gen. . , . with , , . any dependence of application of any other first signe , than circumcision upon the promise there . the command of an indfinite first seal , there or elswhere to believers infants , is a meer figment . . that dependence which is implyed by the term ( therfore ) is not at all such as intimates a right competent to infants , but a duty enjoyned to parents , which infants are nor capable of . and therefore if any see a command for baptizing of infants in that place , it is but a parallax , or decep●io visus , a mistake of sight , as in him that thinks he sees two suns or two moons at once . the minor also in his argument is to be proved . sect . iv. the covenant , genesis . , , , , . was a mixt covenant . but afore ●e comes to prove it , he brings in an objection , gods covenant with abraham , was not a pure gospel-covenant , as appears , say they , by his promising abraham temporal things , gen. . . therefore we may not argue from thence to the covenant of grace . it is true , both in my exercitation , and in my examen , part . sect. . and else where , i deny the covenant made with ahraham , gen. . to be a pure gospel-covenant , and aver it to be mixt , and shew how it is mixt , to wit , of promises not belonging to every one with whom the new covenant of the gospel is made , but respecting peculiarly abrahams house , and the policy of israel , and that the promises evangelical are delivered , gen. . in words expressing proper benefits to abraham and his natural seed , though in the more inward sense of the holy ghost , evangelical promises were meant , and therefore it may be well doubted , whether that covenant may be termed simply evangelical : yea the scripture where it speaks of this covenant , often mentions no other promise , but of the land of canaan , as exod. . . psal. . , , , . chron. . , . act. . . where stephen mentions gods promise to abraham , he mentions that of the land of canaan ; and vers . . calls the promise of canaan , the covenant of circumsion . wherefore cameron in his thescs of the threefold covenant of god , thesi. . saith , that circumcision did primarily separate abrahams seed from other nations , sealed the earthly promise , it signified sanctification secondarily . whence i inferre , that when paedobaptists speak of circumcision as if it were a seal of the covenant of grace onely , and from it gather rules and conclusions concerning the ordinance of baptism , in the new testament , as if the reason of circumcising infants were from nothing proper to the policy or nation of israel , but onely out of the respect it had to the promise of evangelical grace , they do but mislead the people , and speak their own conceits , and not the language and minde of the scripture . to this master drew saith , i answer , the scripture no where calls that covenant a mixt covenant , but on the contrary , notwithstanding any civil promises of temporal things , it is held forth as pure a covenant of grace as may be ; the apostle tells us plainly that this covenant was confirmed of god in christ , gal. . . which i think is enough to make it a pure gospel-covenant . christ was never the testator of any covenant , but that of grace : outward things as appurtenances altered not the covenant , nor made it mixt at all , unless that covenant we live under be mixt too , for outward things are promised to believers under the gospel , rom. . . cor. . , . tim. . . besides , this covenant with abraham is called a covenant of justification , rom. . , . of grace , vers . . of faith , vers . . and i am perswaded , that abraham had not been called the father of the faithful , if believers had stood in a different covenant towards god , with that in which he stood ; as for differences in the manner of administring and dispensing that covenant , they matter nothing , if there be no difference in those evangelical promises , which make it a covenant of grace ; but no man is able to make this appear ; therefore this exception weakens not our proposition , nor the argument at all . i reply , if it be true which i allege , that the covenant , gen. . , , , , , was a mixt covenant , as i shew in the places forecited , and that circumcision injoyned , vers . , , , . had reference as a signe or token not onely to that promise ( i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed ) but also to the promises which peculiarly respect the house of abraham , and policy of israel , which cannot be understood to belong to every believer , as vers . . to be the father of many nations , to be exceeding fruitful , that god would make nations of him , and kings should come out of him ; that he would give unto him and his seed after him the land wherein he was a stranger , all the land of canaan for an everlasting possession ; then it follows , that the reason of the command , vers . , , , . is not onely from the promise vers . . but those other promises , and the application of the first seal are knit into a dependence one upon another , as well as that vers . . and then if the argument be good , the infants of those to whom the promise is , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , are to have the first seal , because of the dependence there , it will follow , he to whom god gives the land of canaan for a possession , he out of whom god brings nations and kings , he is likewise to be sealed with the first seal , sith there is as much dependence in the text , of circumcision on the promises vers . , , , . as on the promise vers . . so that if this reasoning of master drew's be good ; for my part i see not but that the turk , possessour now of canaan , may be intitled to baptism by the same reason he produceth for infant-baptism of believers children . now whereas he saith , that the scripture no where calls that covenant mixt , i grant it , and it is true also , that it no where calls it a pure gospel-covenant , nor circumcision a seal of the covenant of grace , or the first seal ; yet , the thing i mean by it being proved out of those texts forenamed , there is no reason to except against the expression . nor can it be true , that the covenant gen. . , , , , . is held forth as pure a covenant of grace as may be , if the promises are of sundry things not assured to believers in the covenant of the new testament . which is most evident : for no believer hath now a promise of the possession of the land of canaan , but rather an assurance of persecution , no promise of such greatness , as to be the progenitor of kings and nations , but rather of obscurity and debasement . a pure gospel covenant containing many promises , is rare in the old testament , except where he foretells us he would make a new covenant . god made a covenant with david , psal. . , &c. nor do i deny it was a gospel-covenant , yet therein are promises peculiar to his house , as vers . , , , . yea the promises which were evangelical in the furthest intent and aim , were domestical in the first place , and the most open expressions . nor is it a whit against the mixture of abrahams covenant which i avouch , that the apostle tells us plainly that this covenant was confirmed of god in christ , gal. . . and that christ was never the testator of any covenant but that of grace . for the word is in greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rendered in christum by the tigurines , into or unto christ , or as master dickson renders it , respectu christi , in respect of christ , that is , as in his paraphrase , with relation to christ , or as diodati , whose foundation was christ , not as the testator , but as the party concerning whom the testament was made , or as the executor by whom the things promised were performed . now in either of these senses it is easie to conceive how the pro●ise might be in christ , or unto christ , and yet the covenant not a pure gospel-covenant . he might be either a legatee , or an executor in that testament which contained not onely evangelical blessings of justification , &c. which were common to all true believers , but also outward blessings , which few or no believers had in the new testament . i see not any inconvenience in it to say that the testament was confirmed in christ , in respect of the promises , so far as they were evangelical , and yet to say there were promises in the same which were not such , nor they 〈◊〉 in christ , though in the same covenant . and whereas he calls outward things appertenances , i conceive the promises of outward things , gen. . , , , . are as truely parts of the covenant as the promise , vers . . yea in the p●●ces foretold , the promise of canaan hath the title of the covenant . and those promises , though they alter not the covenant , yet they must needs make a mixture in the covenant , for by reason of them the covenant contains promises of diverse sorts . and for that which is said , that now under the gospel , outward things are promised to believers : i grant it , yet it is nothing against the mixture in the covenant , gen. . which i assert : for those promises are not the p●omise of canaan , to be progenitor of kings , which are not made to every believer , but of a different sort . whence i infer , that there was a mixture in the covenant , gen. . which is not in the new testament , and the reference of circumcision to that covenant , might be and was in respect of those domestick promises , as well or more then of the gospel promises as such . nor do i finde rom. . , , . any mention of the covenant , gen , . much less is it there , which master drew saith , that it is called the covenant of justification and of grace . it is true abraham is there said to be justified by grace , yet no mention of the covenant , and the text there cited , is gen. . . not gen. . and though rom. . . it be said , the promise to abraham and his seed , that he should be heir of the world , was not by the law , but by the righteousness of saith ; yet it neither calls the covenant the covenant of faith ; nor doth it assert that the covenant , gen. . contained no other promise but what was evangelical or common to all believers of jews and gentiles . neither do i , nor need i say , that believers stood in a different covenant towards god with that in which abraham stood . i am perswaded as mr. drew , that believers now are justified by the same covenant that abraham was justified by , to wit , that in abraham all nations of the earth should be blessed , gal. . . & rom. . . a father of many nations have i made thee . i onely say , that the covenant gen. . contained promises which were proper to the jews , together with the evangelical promises . and to make those promises no parts of the covenant , but onely the manner of administring and dispensing the covenant , because the holy ghost alludes to them as figures and types of spiritual things , is not right . for even the promise , vers . . was in the like manner typical , abrahams natural seed inheriting , shadowing the israel of god , true believers , and then by this reason the promise , i will be a god to thy seed , should be no part of the covenant , but belong to the manner of administring and dispensing the covenant . the like may be said of the rest of the promises , they all shadowed out spiritual benefits , and so there should be no parts of the covenant , and consequently no covenant at all , but a manner of administring and dispensing of i know not what covenant . but the speeches vers . , , , . do contain promises , as well as vers . . and either i am uncapable to understand the meaning of terms , or else promises are parts , yea substantial or essential , or integral parts of a covenant , the description of a covenant , being a collective of promises , and the scripture , what gal. . . is called a covenant or testament , calls vers . . promises . and therefore ro make the promises gen. . , , , . not to be parts , but appurtenances to the covenant , or the manner of administring and dispensing it , hath in my apprehension , neither truth nor congruous sense . now if they be part of the covenant , as hath been made appear , and circumcision had its appointment by reason of them , as well as the promise , vers . . it matters much to weaken master drew's proposition and argument , though there be no difference in those evangelical promises which make it a covenant of grace between abrahams covenant and ours . master drew proceeds . sect . v. acts . , . proves not either the identity of covenant now with that to abraham , gen. . . as it comprehends his natural seed , nor the connexion between it and baptizability . now to go on to the proof of our second proposition in the argument , which is , that the reason of the command for signing , &c. even this promise i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , continues in full force under the gospel , i refer you to that scripture acts . . to make it good . the promise is unto you and to your children . what promise ? why this must needs relate to a former engagement , yea and too made unto them to whom the apostle peter spake , viz. jews , and i know not to what engagement this can have reference , if not unto gods promise made to abraham , of being his god and the god of his seed after him . certainly he is one of those that are blinde , and yet have eyes , who sees not from this text , that this very promise is in force and appliable to believers under the gospel , and if this stand good , then the command for signing our infants with the first signe of the covenant of grace , viz. baptism , stands good too , for this promise is the reason which god gives of his precept ; god will own a believers children , therefore he will have them markt for his . answ. i grant the promise i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , doth still continue in force , god is still the god of abrahams seed , that is his spiritual seed , elect persons , and true believers ; and he will be again the god of abrahams natural seed when the natural branches or posterity of abraham , the root , shall be grafted in again . but i deny that which master drew means , and in the page before expressed , that god doth as truely say to every believing gentile now , i am thy god , and the god of thy seed , as he did to abraham the father of the faithful ; yea or that ever god meant by that promise to assure spiritual or evangelical blessings to all and every of abrahams natural posterity , the apostle determining and proving the contrary , rom. , , &c. and restraining that promise in the evangelical sense onely to the children of abraham , which were elect by god. nor is there a word , act. . . to make it good in master drew's sense . for , . master drew proves not that the promise act. . . must needs be the promise gen. . . i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed . his argument is , it must needs relate to a former engagement to the jews , and therefore to that gen. . . but this is to argue a genere ad speciem affirmative , it relats to a former engagement therfore to this , which logicians deny to be good proof . but saith he , i know not what engagement this can have reference to , if not unto the promise gen. . . i answer , though he know not , and so may be one of those , that are blind and yet have eyes , ( which he chargeth on his opposits ) yet others see other promises , namely that to david of raising up christ to sit on his throne mentioned acts . . or the promise of the holy gost mentioned v. . or the promise of blessing mentioned acts . . any of which may be the promise meant acts . . more probably then that gen. . . . where it is said ( the promise is to you ) if we either consider the scope of the apostle or other parrallel texts acts . . acts . , . ( the promise is ) is as much as to say , the promise made to david acts . . or to abarham acts . . is fulfilled in raising up christ , or the promise of the spirit is fulfilled in the shedding forth of its gifts , ( of which promise mentioned v. . . piscator and others understand it ) and that for you , that is for your good blessing , and your children and all that are afarr off as many as the lord our god shall call , not as m. drew means , there is a promise of being a god to you and every one of your children continually to be fulfilled as soon as ever they are in being . . it is false which m. drew presupposeth as if the meaning were ( the promise is to you ) that is ( the promise of being your god is to you believers and to your children ) that is to all your infant children , as children of believers whether jews or gentiles . for . that speech is made to the jews ( as m. drews own words seem to import ( onely and their children , and not to gentiles and their children . it is false that when it is said ( the promise is to you ) the meaning is to you as believers . for neither were they then believers , as i prove in my ample disquisit : sect . nor is it certain whether some of them were ever believers , the occasion and scope seems to intimate rather that they were considered there as persons who had crucified christ . neither is it true that the promise is to their children , that is to their infant children as their children , m. gataker discept : de bapt : infant : vi . & 〈◊〉 . pag. . saith thus , to the obtaining the promise as well repentance as partaking of baptism at least in this place is exacted ; so that hence the promise of remission of sins cannot be proved to be made to infants when they are entered by baptism , unless also they repent . nor do i know how it can be true , which m. drew sayes , in any sense for his purpose , that god hath promised to every believing gentile now to be the god of his seed as he did to abraham , by which he would expound the words acts . . the promise is to your children . for in respect of spiritual blessings accompanying salvation it is not true , every believers child is not elect , in the covenant of saving grace , a child of the resurrection , nor in respect of outward ecclesiastical privileges . neither did god promise circumcision to every child of abraham , not to the males under . dayes old nor to the females , nor hath it any colour to interpret i will be the god of thy seed , that is they shall be circumcised , much less that god promised to every gentile believers child he should be baptized or have right to baptism , sure not to professed unbelievers , to abortives or still born infants . for my part with all m. drews light i cannot understand how according to m. drews exposition the promise gen. . . is inforce and applyable to believers under the gospel as he saith . nor do i conceive it true which he ads . if this stand good then the command for signing our infants with the first sign of the covenant of grace viz. baptism stands good to ; for were it granted that it were true , that god doth as truly say to every believing gentile now , i am thy god and the god of thy seed as he did to abraham the father of believing gentiles , yet there is not a word in that text or any other to prove that therefore every believers infant child is to be baptized , it being false that the covenant of grace doth of it selfe intitle to baptism as i have proved in my examen part . . s. . in my letter to m. baile or additions to my appology sect. . in the ample disquisition sect. . where also it is proved that though the promise acts . . be alleged why they should be baptized v. . yet not as the reason of their right to baptism as m. drew makes it , but as a motive encouraging them to it as their duty , and in performing of it first to move then to repent and then to be baptized . the reason , is not as m. drew makes it . the promise is to you and and your children therefore it is their and your right to be baptized , and the minister ought to do it to you and your infants ; but this , the promise is to you and your children , therefore you and they ought and may be encouraged to repent and be baptized in the name of the lord jesus for remission of sins : nor is there a word in the text or elsewhere to prove that dictate of m. drew , god will own believers children , therefore he will have them markt for his , even in infancy by baptism , more truely saith m. gataker discept : infant . de bapt ▪ infant . vi . & e●f●c . pag. . acts . , . is nothing found concerning infants to be baptized , in that they are commanded to repent and to be baptized unto the remission of sins , it is altogether like to that saying of the lord christ , he that believeth and shall be baptized shall attain salvation matth. . . but m. drew thinks to take off the exceptions that are laid against the witness which this place brings to prove the birth priviledge of believers children under the gospel . the first exception is that the promise is of extraordinary gifts of the spirit , and he answers . this doth not sute with the promise made gen. . : which was to be performed to abrahams children , and yet they had not those gifts . but . this answer goes upon his mistake that the promise acts . . must be that gen. . . . he supposeth that the promise acts . . must be understood so as to be made good to abrahams seed afore christ : but if so , it were false in his sense , for all abrahams seed had not the birth priviledge of the first seale not the females any of them , nor any of the males till the eight day . . he saith , it cannot be true of extrao●dinary gifts , sith then all believing jews must have those gifts , which they had not , and all believers might pray for them . to which i say if the promise be so understood , you shall all have sueh gifts . i acknowledg it were not true exam. part . . sect . but in this sense it may be true even of those gifts , the promise of sending the spirit in extraordinary gifts is fulfilled to you and your children and all that are afarr off even as many as the lord our god shall call , that is for their and your benefit , in that by those gifts the apostles were inabled to publish and propagate the gospel , which is a benefit to all that are called . the second exception is that the words ( as many as the lord our god shall call ) expound the apostle meaning , which is this , their children should receive the promise if the lord called them , to it he answers . that this particle ( even ) with that which follows ( whom the lord our god shall call ) has relation to the next foregoing sentence viz. those that are afarr off for the explanation of that not unto this sentence ( to you and your children ) so that the apostle speaks thus , the promise is made to you and your children for the present , and when the lord shall call those that are a far off and strangers to the covenant of promise , they and their children shall be heirs to the promise as well as you and your children are now . to which i reply , m. drew gives no reason , why the limitation should be ment onely of those afar off , and not also of them and their children . nor doth he answer the reason given to the contrary , that the speech were not true , if it be so expounded as that the sense be , that god would be a god to those jews he then spake to , though they were not called to the knowledge and belief of christ , and so salvation by another then christ contrary to the same apostles words acts . to me saith m. gataker discept . debapt . inf. viz. and e●fic . pag. . the covenant of grace act· . . seems onely to be with them that have embraced the gospel . now if the words ( as many as the lord our god shall call ) must limit the words ( to you and all that are afar off ) it is incongruous to the use of speaking not to apply it to ( your children ) in the middle . yea without the limitation it would not be true that god hath promised to be a god to their or any others children . for god is not a god to any but those he calls either outwardly or inwardly at least . . his paraphrase ( when the lord our god shall call those that are afar off , they and their children shall be heirs to the promise as well as your children are now ) is an intolerable abuse of adding that of which there is not a word in the text , which doth not mention at all the children of them that are afar off though called . . saith m. drew if the appostle had meant to apply the promise onely to those who should be called of god to believe , then it had been needless to have made any mention at all of children . to which i reply there was great reason why he should mention their children with them , because they had wished matth. . . christs blood on them and their children . to take away the horrour of soule , and fear of the curse on them and their children caused by the conscience of their crucifying christ and imprecation to them and their children , and not to assure them of such a poor empty eclesiastical outward priviledge as paedobaptists imagine to belong to believers infants , was that speech of the apostle intended in like fort as joseph did in the like gen. . , . &c. gen. . . for this end was sutable to the occasion of their question ver. . . and to the apostles answer , and it seems probable tthe apostle saith ( to you and your children ) but not , to all that are afar off and their children , because those afar off had not wished christs blood on them and theirs as the other had done . . saith m. drew , it utterly overthrows the apostles scope which is to shew the jews shall be bettered rather then worsted by believing in christ , which they would hardly believe should he have left their children ( who were alwayes till now reckoned in covenant with them ) in as poor a condition as the most barbarous heathens in the world , which had been a bad argument to bring in the jews , cold comfort to hear that their children should be made as much aliens to the common-wealth of israel by their fathes embracing the gospel , as the very pagans . surely this would stave off the jews from christ rather then bring them on . to which i reply , the apostles scope is plain to direct them what to do being oppressed with the horrour of their sin in crucifying christ and wishing his blood on them and their children , and ver. . is a notice to them to repent and be baptized in the name of christ. to imagine the jews then either thought of a priviledge for their children answerable to circumcision , or that peters scope was to satisfy them about it , is such a toy as is fit for children rather then men of understanding . it had been alike comfort unto the jews at that time to tell them of their infants right to baptism as for a man to tell an arraigned malefactor , expecting to be condemned and hanged , that his little child had a new coat given him , vain words and bug-bears fit to affright children with , of a childs being out of the covenant for defect of tittle to baptism , of being in worse case then the jews , in as poor a condition as the most barbarous heathens in the world , aliens to the common-wealth of israel , debarred a priviledge the deprivation of which would have staved off the jews from christ. children may be in covenant as much as the jews , no whit worsted in their condition in a better condition , then barbarious heathen infidels , though title to baptism be not aserted to their infants . if by ( the commonwealth of israel ) the jewish civil or eclesiastical estate , be understood those that peter spake to , must expect to be alienated from it if they would be christians . they knew christ was cast out , and might know he had told them it would be so with his disciples . if by ( the common-wealth of israel ) be meant ( the true christian church ) the defect of infant-baptism neither expressly nor by consequence made them aliens from the common-wealth of israel . such conceits arise from paedobaptists mistaken suppositions . nor can i imagine but that had the jews understood that their children were in that condition , worsted for want of a priviledge equal to their circumcision they would have been glad to accept of christ to take away that horrour that then lay on their spirits . the third exception is , that it is not said the promise is to the gentiles and their children ; now if this be not made good the argument fals , because we are gentiles by nature . to which he answers . if believing gentils live under the same covenant that abraham and his seed did ( which has been proved ) then though they were none of his seed , t is safer to apply the whole promise to them , i am thy god and the god of thy seed , then to cut off and circumcise the tenor of the covenant , and to say unto believers now , god onely is your god , not the god of your children ; is not this to make a main and substantial alteration in the covenant ? and to rob believers of one of the most precious comforts they have by promise , even gods owning their seed . which they cannot be assured of as the jews were , without the children be admitted to the first sign or seal of the covenant , which is baptism now under the gospel , as i shall prove by its succeeding circumcision by and by . to which i reply , the covenant gen. . , , , , . is mixt and in respect of the temporal promises believing gentiles live not under the covenant made to abraham gen. . . but in respect of the spiritual part , that is , they are justified and saved now , or god is a god to them as they are abrahams seed gal. . . but neither did god promise to be a god in respect of gospel grace , to abrahams natural seed as such , the contrary is delivered rom. . , . nor now to any believers seed as such , but the elect whether believers or unbelievers children , as is proved at large by me exam. part . . sect. . not by denying the covenant of grace to be made with a believer & his natural seed do we cut off or circumcise the tenor of the covenant , or make any alteration , much less a main and substantial alteration in the covenant , the apostle expressly determining , and whole juries of the ablest protestant writers even paedobaptists expounding rom. . . as resolving , that the covenant gen. . . to be a god to abraham and his seed , was not made to all abrahams natural seed , no not to the circumcised , not to ishmael and esau , but to the elect onely , and therefore there is no safety to apply the whole promise , i am thy god and the god of thy seed , to every sincere believer and his child , it being expressly contradictory to rom. . . which determines some onely to be children of the promise . and yet we need not say as m. drew injuriously makes us say , god onely is your god , not the god of your children , but onely this : you may assure your selves that he is your god , for ye are believers and so abrahams seed ; and ye may hope by reason of general indefinite promises and frequent experiences that god will be a god to your children . but god hath not promised that he will be certainly a god to every , or any one of your children definitely , but is at liberty to shew mercy to your children , or to an infidels , as it shall please him . and this you must be contented with , sith god afforded no more to abraham himself , when he had made isaac the child of the promise and not ishmael , nor to isaac when he loved iacob and hated esau. it is fit you should remember god to be no debtor to you , that he is the potter , ye and yours are the clay , and accordingly acquiess in his will blessing him for his love to you which is the most precious comfort you have by promise , and not being anxious concerning your children . nor is there any truth in it that either the jews were assured that god would own their seed , that is , be their god , nor that by being admitted to circumcision they had that assurance , nor that without admission to baptism we cannot be assured of our children that god owns them , nor that baptism succeeds circumcision , or if it did , such assurance as mr. drew speaks of cannot be inferred thence . so that all this passage is but a fardel of mistakes . le ts consider the next . . saith m. drew , are not gentiles the seed of abraham ? then i would fain be resolved in this whether christ took upon him onely the nature of the jews , or of the jews and gentiles both ? if only of jews , how must the gentiles be saved ? if of both , then how you will construe this text heb. . . he took upon him the seed of abraham , if you will not allow the gentiles by any means to be abrahams seed . answer . i grant believing gentils are abrahams spiritual seed descending from him as the father of the faithfull by imitating his faith . and as for m. drews frivolus or captious question , which goes upon a supposition as if christ might take on him the nature of the jews only , & that the nature of the jews were one and the gentils another , i tell him ( though i think such a dr. might have resolved himself ) for his resolution that christ took on him the nature of both , that is the same specifical essence or kinde of being , that both had , to wit the being of a man common a like to jews and gentiles , meaning by nature his individual , and numerical existence , which is all one with that , our lord sprang out of judah heb. . . not from levi , or from lot , and yet the gentils are saved by his name , he dying and arising again both for jews and gentils . and for the construction of heb. . . thought there are learned men that expound 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus , he takes hold or helpeth the seed of abraham , that is believers of gentils as well as jews , yet i think the meaning there to be no more but this , that he took on him or received the nature of man by a natural descent from abraham . because the seed of abraham is opposed to angels , and therefore abrahams seed signifies the nature of man contradistinct to angels . . because the author saith ver . . thence he ought to be like to his brethren , to be a mercifull high priest , which comes not from his helping believers , but his assumption of the humane nature , whith fits him to be like to men and to be a mercifull high priest. and therefore i like best the reading of our transtators in the text , not that in margin . and thus haye i answered m. drews douty question in which he would so fain be resolved . but what is this to prove that acts . . the promise is not yet to the gentils , that are called but also to their children i see not , it being neither proved that acts . . the promise is the promise gen. . . i will be a god to thee and thy seed , ot that the children of gentils called , are in that respect abrahams seed . m. drew adds , but yet further . t is plain in the gospel that faith maketh a believer the child of abraham ; yea and a surer heir to the promise , i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , then carnal descent from abrahams loyns doth . abraham had . seeds one descending from ishmael and onother from isaac ; all that came from abraham were not children rom. . . but in isaac shall thy seed be called . isaac was his special seed , and typed out his believing seed under the gospel , for ver . . they which are the children of the flesh , these are not ( that is not in so peculiar a manner ) the children of god as the believing seed , for the children of the promise are the seed , the seed by way of eminencie , that is the prime seed . and mark i pray you how the same apostle explaines and applyes this to our purpose gal. . , . the galatians were gentils , but being believers , we saith the apostle , as isaac was , are the children of promise , and so the special seed of abraham : the galatians were no more of abrahams natural seed then we are , but by faith they became his prime seed , and heirs apparent to all the promises as isaac was , who is said in the next ver . to be born after the spirit as well as gospel believers are . and , sirs , shall we make the covenant curtail and narrow to abrahams prime seed and halve the promises to them when they are full and large to his worser seed ? the appostle will not suffer this gal. . . if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise , which surely must needs be according to the full extent of that promise made unto our father abraham ; for if it be not ours so fully as it was his , then we are not heirs according to the promise ; if our seed be exempted it fals much short of what was said to him , i will be thy god and the god of thy seed . and mark , friends , i beseech you , that was gospel which was preached to abraham gal. . . in thee shall all nations be blessed ; not onely his natural seed , that was but one nation ; but all that were of the faith shall be blessed , as children of what nation soever ver . . for faith was imputed to abraham in uncircumcision rom. . , . to this end that he might be the father of all them that believe though not circumcised . and truely i wonder since the g●spel is so clear that believers are abrahams children that any man dare rob them of any comfort or priviledge wherewithall he was invested by that promise to which they are more sure heirs then any of his natural seed , as i think is made plain to the easiest of your capacities . answer . the thing to be proved is that to the natural seed of gentile believers god hath promised to be a god. to prove which divers places are brought which do manifestly refute it . that of ro. . , . determines that all the natural children of abraham were not the seed to whom god had promised to be god , but that in isaac his seed should be called . and the same is determined gal. . . that isaac was the child of the promise and not the son of the bondwoman , and that no child of any man is a child of the promise but he that is born after the spirit . and gal. . . is meant of those onely that are the sons of god by faith in christ ver . . and from the gospel mentioned gal. . . in thee shall all nations be blessed , he infers ver . . onely of believers , so then they that are of faith are blessed with faithfull abraham . and rom. . . . abraham is said to be the father of believers , or as it is ver . . those that walk in the steps of the faith of our father abraham which he had yet being uncircumcised . wherefore i may much more justly wonder that learned protestants who so commonly say , that elect persons onely are in the covenant of grace from rom. . , . when they dispute against arminians , should yet have the face to avouch that every believers yea though but by profession a believers natural child whether elect or a believer or not , is in the covenant of grace made to abraham gen. . . when they dispute for paedobaptism , though by such doctrine they make the word of god to fall , it being not true of ishmael , esau , and thousands of others of both of abrahams and other believers seed , god hath not nor will be a god to them . t is true believing gentils are heirs of the promise made to abraham of blessing or justification by faith as he had , but it is false , every believer is heir of every priviledg . abraham had ; none besides him is father of the faithfull as abraham , or hath gods promise to his natural seed as abraham had to his spiritual , yea or to his natural . none hath the promise that in his seed all nations of the earth should be blessed acts . . nor any that his posterity should be graffed in again as it is assured to abrahams seed rom. . , . the imagined priviledge that god would be the god of his naturall seed was never promised to abrahams natural posterity , as such . yet it is false , that a believers child is a more sure heir of the promise then any of abrahams natural seed . for though god hath not promised to be a god to all abrahams posterity , yet he hath to some , which i know not that he hath done to any believing gentils natural child . m. d. doth but calumniate by insinuating as if we curtaild the promise , robbed believing parents of any comfort or privilege wherewith abraham was invested by that promise gen. . . perverting the text as if when god said he would be a god to abraham , by abraham were meant every believer , and when he saith he will be a god to abrahams seed , it were meant of every belivers natural seed whether believers or not . about which he and other paedobaptists , particularly the assembly at westminster in the directory about baptism do but abuse people , and lead fond parents , who swallow down preachers sayings without scripture proof into a fools paradise , by telling them that the promise is made to a believer and his seed , that god will be a god to a believer , and his child , and that infants of believers dying in their infancy , are saved by the parents faith , and by this there is assurance of their salvation . but master drew once more urgheth rom. , . that the term graffing , shews believing gentils come in with their seed , or twigs that grow from them , else surely they cannot be said to be graffed in as the jews were cut off , but i have so fully proved the ingraffing to be by giving faith according to election , and that none but elect persons are ingraffed according to the apostles meaning , and that ingraffing is into the invisible church in my ample disquisition , being the first part of this review in the ten first sections , that i think it unnecessary to say any more to what master drew here speaks . and for what he saith , if believers infants were taken in under the legal administration , and left out in the gospel-administration , the covenant dispensation under the gospel is more uncomfortable th●n that under the law , it is but a vain speech , as if the circumcision of infants were such a matter of comfort , that the having of no priveledge under the gospel did recompense the loss of it without infant-baptism , as if infant-baptism were of so great comfort to parents , that without it other comfort concerning their children were nullified , whereas these things arise upon mistakes , as if baptism were administred according to a persons interest in the covenant , and circumcision was so , and that the denying infants baptism , is putting them out of covenant , which is but ungrounded talk , as shall be further shewed in that which follows . yea when the paedobaptists answer the papists , who would have the work of outward baptism to take away original sin from the infant-baptized , they say onely that it seals the covenant , but doth not seal the fruit of the covenant , but upon condition of faith and repentance ; so that the infant hath no benefit by the covenant , or the seal without faith or election ; and so much benefit hath any unbeliever or his infant ; yea the unbeliever hath more advantage then the infant , for the unbeliever hath the moral use of the sealing of any baptized person , which the infant hath not . when they talk of the covenant to infants of believers they say it is but condicionally that they do believe that god will be their god , and in the same manner the covenant belongs to all men in the world , to unbelievers and their infants , and when they speak of the benefit of baptism , they say it onely seals the covenant , not the persons partaking the fruit of it ( excepting he be an elect person dying in infancy ) which yet he may have without the seal ) till he believe , yet he hath not the moral use and comfort of it till he understand and believe , at which time the baptism in infancy is altogether unknown to him . so that indeed the comfort which paedobaptists give to parents , is either the same i give , without infant-baptism , or , if parents did examin it , it would be found delusory . what master drew speaks about baptisms succession to circumsion , and his imagined full proof from thence for infant-baptism , i shall put off till i review the dispute about master ms. third concl. this is enough to satisfie that master drew's reasons are blunt and not sharp as was supposed . sect . vi. the arguments of master josias church in his divine warrant for infant-baptism , from their being judged in the promise , is answered . there is another writing of master josiah church , intituled , the divine warrant of infant-baptism , of which i passed a censure in the first part of this review sect. . and i might let it pass , being as the commanders of it say , dogmatical rather then polemical , and leave it to those that affect such superficial writings . yet because master roberts and master geree have commended it , and master baxter pag. . of his plain scripture proof , puts it among the chief books , of which he saith , if any of the men of bewdly have taken up the union of antipaedobaptism , and have not read and studied him with others , and been able to confute them , he hath discovered a seared conscience ( which is a most unreasonable and uncharitable censure ) to shew the folly and vanity of master baxters and others conceit , i shall give the reader some taste of his overly handling the point . his first argument is thus , the infants of christians are righty judged in the promise of propriety in god , therefore they may be baptized . to it i answer , . the antecedent is ambiguous , not expressing what propriety in god he means , whether of justification , regeneration , and salvation , or of outward protection & prosperity among men or ecclesiastical privilege , nor where that promise is which he calls promise of propriety in god , nor whether he means it of all infants of christians , or some , and if of some of which he means it , and of which not ; nor of what sort of christians , whether such as are christians onely by profession , or really such in gods account ; nor with what judgement he means , whether of charity or verity , probably or certainty ; nor upon what evidence they are with any of these sorts of judgement rightly judged in the promise of propriety in god. so that i finde nothing but sophistry in this dispensation , the antecedent being perhaps true in some sense , in some false : and therefore it is but wast labour to refute it , or answer his proofs , till that he distinctly set down what he asserts , and how his proofs suite with his assertion . yet i shall cast away some animadversions on this writing , least my silence be disadvantage to the cause i maintain . that which i conceive he means , is this , all the infants of christians by visible profession , are rightly judged by a judgement of charity , though not of certainty to be included in the promise of propriety in god , in regard of eternal adoption and priviledge expressed in those words ▪ gen. . . i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , therefore they may be baptized . of which argument , i deny both the antecedent and the consequence . the antecedent he takes upon him to prove by ten arguments . . the infants of the jews ( so long as they continued visible professors ) were rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god , for it was sealed to them by the initial sacrament no less then to actual professors , gen. . , . ergo answ. did not master church affect new phrasifying , which serves onely to puzzle in plain words , he had said , to the jews infants· the promise was made of being god to them , therefore the infants of christians are rightly to be in that promise : of which , neither is the antecedent true universally taken , but contradicted by paul , rom. . , . where he expresly denies the promise ( i will be the god of thy seed ) to be true of abrahams natural seed universally taken : nor if it had been true , doth it follow that what was promised to abrahams seed , is true of every true believers , muchless of the seed of every meer visible professor of christian faith , who are neithet themselves , nor their children in any scripture sense abrahams seed : nor is the proof of any weight , that the promise of propriety in god was sealed to the jews infants by the initial sacrament , no less then to actual professors , therefore the jews infant were rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god. for this reason in plain terms is no more then this , the jews infants were to be circumcised , ergo they were rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god , that is that god would be their god , which rests upon these false suppositions , that god had promised to be god to those whom he commanded to be circumcised , and that the promise of being their god was the formal reason of their being circumcised , that when god promised to be a god of to gentiles , he meant it of external adoption and priviledges . the consequence he would prove by four argument . . the promise of propriety in god was not a specialty , therefore the infaints of christians being certainly no less in the promise then were the infants of jews aforetime , they are rightly judged to be in it as they were . where the conclusion is altered , which was to be proved ( therefore if the infants of the jews were rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god , then the infants of christians are rightly judged to be in that promise ) and instead thereof , that which should have been the antecedent ( the infants of christians are certainly no less in the promise then were the jews infants aforetime ) is made the chief part of the conclusion , and in stead of the right antecedent , this ambiguous antecedent is put ( that promise of proriety in god was not a specialty ) which he says he would prove by seven arguments , but sets not down which branch of the promise was not a specialty , whether that ( i will be thy god ) or that ( i will be the god of thy seed ) nor in what sense it was not a specialty , nor doth his speech ( that it was not a specialty ) appear equipollent to that he should have proved ( the infants of christians are certainly no less in the promise then were the jews dnfants aforetime ) but he dictates so ambiguously and indistinctly , that more labour will be necessary to understand him then to refute him . he tells us , the promise of propriety in god , was not peculiar to abraham , and visible professors , and abrahams natural seed ; where he supposeth , that the promise ( i will he thy god , and the god of thy seed ) was true of meer visible professors , and abrahams natural seed ; which is most false and contrary to rom. . , , . luk. . , , . he brings the words exod. . , the stranger was as our home-born , and there was one law for both ( which are spoken meerly of allowance for them to eat the passeover with them ) to prove a like propriety of the infants of visible professors of the gentiles in the promise of propriety in god , gen. . . he brings gal. . . which was spoken onely of true believers born after the spirit , to prove visible professors and their infants to be judged in the promise of propriety in god. he saith , isaac was in the promise as an infant of believing parent , whereas paul saith no , for then ishmael and esau had been in the promise , but by special calling or election , rom. . , , , . he applies those texts gal. . . rom. . . rom. . , . gen. ▪ , . to prove a promise to every gentile visible professour of faith and their infants , which are onely verified in the sense the apostle useth them , of true believers as abraham was , who are justified as he was . he allegeth that which the apostle rom. . . saith , the children are beloved for the fathers , as it were meant of infants of every gentile visible professor , which is spoken onely of the elect israelites , and the ancient patriarchs abraham , &c. that which is said , psal. . , . of children of him that fears god , sitting round about his table like olive plants ▪ to prove visible professors and their partaking in the promise of propriety in god. he saith , the former part of that promise ( i will be a god to thee , gen. . . is undeniably common to all believers , which in truth is undeniably proper t abraham , not simply as a believer , but either as a natural father , or father o believers according to the spiritual part of the promise . he saith , christians are in this dispensation as jews were in the former , they are called as they were , an holy nation , a peculiar people , a royal priesthood , pet. . tit , . . and every nation receiving the faith as the nation of the jews did , and in which there is a national agreement in doctrine , worship , and discipline , as was in the nation of the jews , is to be accounted to the lord in every age , psal. . . even egypt and assyria with israel , isa. . . and many call abraham father ( who obtained the fatherhood of many nations , gen. . . ) and may be accounted a national church no less hen that nation was , whereby those speeches pet. . . t it . . gen. . . as expounded , rom. . . which are meant onely of the elect and true believers of every nation are applied to a national church like the jews consisting of a great part of either ignorant persons that know little or nothing of christianity , or persecutors of godliness , profanely despising the word , and hating the godly . he applies that mat. . . little ones , who are said vers . . to believe in christ , and the offending of whom hath so great a penalty , to little one in age . he applies jer. . . which is spoken of the jews upon their return from captivity , as appears vers . . . concerning their prosperity in canaan to the restitution of their infants to an initial seal at the calling of them to the christian faith whereas if it were so meant , the prophet should foretell that the jews children at their calling to christ should be as a foretime , that is , should be circumcised as they were before the prophets time , not ba●tized . more things there are liable to exception in his arguments whereof what pertains to the text , act. . . rom. . . . cor. . . is sufficiently discussed in ●y ample dsquisition of those texts . that which concerns the reasons that god promiseth mercy to thousands , and such like arguments , being urged more fully by master b. i shall answer when i meet with them in his book . his arguments pag. . to prove his consequence , the infants of chaistians are rightly judged in the promise of propriety in god , therefore they are to be baptized , are insufficient . the first is from circumcision of infants , to which hath been often answered , that was done by vertue of the command , not by vertue of the promise and therefore without the like command the like promise ( if it were granted ) would not prove the like , practice . what is said of john baptists , and the apostles , not denying baptism to any whom they judged to be in the promise , seems to intimate , that they baptized men because they judged them to be in the promise : but there is not a word thereof in any of the evangelists , but their comming to john confessing their sins , glorifying god in embracing his counsel , professing faith , as the reason of their admission to baptism . to his second reason , being in the promise , is the reason rendered by the apostles for the receiving of baptism , acts . , . therefore they that are rightly judged in it may be baptized , i answer . he says not truely , that being in the promise is the onely reason mentioned by the apostle for baptism ; for repentance is put as a prerequisite . . the apostle doth not speak of the promise as master church means that he judged that they and their children were rightly judged as visible professors in the promise of propriety in god , for they were not then such : but that the promise of raising up christ was fulfilled for them upon their repentance and baptism , or their calling , and this is made not the reason of right to receive , or warrant to the minister to baptize them , but as a motive to their duty of repenting and being baptized , and encouragement to hope for remission notwithstanding their crucifying christ and imprecation on themselvs , and theirs , matth. . . sect . vii . bare judgement of charity concerning a persons interest in the promise is not a warrant to baptize . pag. . mr. church brings in an objection thus , the judgement of charity that any are in promise is not a sufficient reason for administring baptism to them : there must be shews of grace for more certainty , to which he thus answers : shews of grace and actual profession are a reason for baptizing only as they are ground for the judgment of charity , that the parties to be baptized are in the promise ; for else if the devil should take a humane shape , and make a verbal profession ( though he were known to be a devil ) he must be baptized . i reply , mr. church here starts a question , by what judgment a minister is to proceed in admitting a person to baptism . concerning which i suppose it will not be denied . . that a minister being but as an officer under christ in baptizing , is to baptize according to his lords will. for that is the property of a servant . . that the will of the lord is most manifest in the institution or appointment of christ ; which is without question declared by the words of christ , matth. . . mark. . , . explained by the apostles and other approved ministers thereof , command and practice mentioned in the acts of the apostles . . that true believers and disciples of christ are appointed to be baptized , and that they have true right before god. . that such believers and disciples as are appointed to be baptized , are disciples of all nations , not of angelical but humane nature ; and therefore we have no warrant to baptize either good angels or devils taking humane shape and making shews of repentance or faith if known to be divils or angels . all the difference is , with what judgment and upon what evidence a minister is to baptize , i conceive . upon extraordinary revelation from god a minister is to baptize an infant declared to be a disciple , as i say in my examen p. . s. . . according to ordinary rule he ought to baptize none but disciples by profession , which profession ought to be free , sober , serious and intelligent . for discerning of which he is to use ministerial prudence , though he be not able to search the heart , and after the use of ministeral prudence therein , he is prudently to judge of the truth of his faith and discipleship . wherein he ought to judge according to the rule of charity cor. . . which believeth all things , hopeth all things , and yet heed what solomon saith prov. . . the simple believeth every word : but the prudent man looketh well to his going . and our lord christ luke . . having said as it was conceived of a minister , who then is that faithfull and wise steward , whom his lord shall make ruler over his houshold , to give them their portion of meat in due season ? it is requisite that the judgment of a minister upon which he baptizeth should have both ingredients , prudents & charity , charity alone is not sufficient . for . if charity be used without prudence , there may be a mockery of the ordinance , and it profaned . . if the rule be a judgment of charity alone , then supposing the minister be defective in his charity the person is to be debarred , who is otherwise fit to be baptized . but about this i conceive there is little or no difference between me and the paedobaptists . mr. m. in one place , to wit , in his defence pag. . intimates that i am conceived to incline to the looser way of baptizing any that would make a profession of faith in jesus christ. and in another place pag. . he maks it all my pleading that because we cannot know that all infants of believers have the inward grace , we may not therefore baptize them . from the former i vindicated my self in my apology sect. . and from the latter sect. . but the difference is what qualification it is that may be evidence to a minister , whereby to judge prudently a person to be capable of baptism . they that hold all infants are to be baptized that are offered , they make no scruple , nor do they make much scruple that hold all infants that are in a chosen nation , which i have refuted exam. part . . sect. . others baptize onely the children of inchurched members , of which i shall speake in examining mr. cobbets conclusions . there are , that from the generality of promises and election running through the loyns of believers , will have all the children of believers to be in covenant and elect in the parcels though not in the lump , and m● . church his opinion comes near it , that we have ground from a judgment of charity that the parties to be baptized are in the promise to baptize them . but against this i argue . . that is to be the rule of judging a persons baptizability which is made the condition of a person to be baptized in the holy scripture . but no where in it is this made the condition of being baptized , that he be elect and in the covenant . . the scripture doth no where say that the election of god runs for the most part through the loyns of believers . and though there are promise , of blessing to the righteous and their seed , yet these are indefinite both for the kinde of blessing , and the person , and these promises are made onely to the truly righteous , and not to them , who are only such in appearance . wherfore there can be no certainty for a judgment of prudence to rest upon , to determin of any whether they are elect or not , in the covenant of grace or not , spiritually considering that god hath declared rom. . , , , , . that he ties not himself to believers children . now all judgment is to be suspended of that which is not revealed , the secret things belong to the lord our god , deut. . . . for infants of believers there is no ground for a judgment of charity , because they do nothing to shew whether they are in the covenant or no. and if it be revealed by god that they are all or some in covenant then we know it by a judgment of faith believing gods revelation , and so it is not a probable judgment of charity , but a certain judgment of verity , which directs in this . . if a probable judgment of charity that a person is elect and in covenant be the rule to direct in baptizing , then suppose a salvage in new england or elsewhere seeming to be affected in the the time of preaching should be judged in charity to an elect person in covenant he ought to be baptized by the minister so judging afore he owns christ by profession . it is promised that the israelits shall be graffed in again , and all israel saved , rom. . , , , , . and we may charitably judg it will be shortly , shall we baptize any of them or their infants upon this charitable judgment of their election and being in covenant afore profession ? . if a charitable judgement of election and being in covenant had been the rule to baptize , then sure john the baptist , and the baptizers appointed , had somewhere propounded that question , or made inquiry into that thing , but it was not so , they required repentance acts . . inquired into the faith of the baptized . . if this had been the direction ( baptize those that are elect or in covenant ) had been a blind derection unfit for men to follow , and so our lord should have imperfectly instructed his apostls and others , or rather have mocked them , putting them to do a business not feasiable by them . but this is not to be said of christ , especially the rule being so plain to baptize believers and disciples by profession . as for mr. chuch his conceit , that shews of grace and actual profession are a reason for baptizing onely as they are a ground for the judgment of charity that the paties to be baptized are in the promise ▪ i deny it . for the rule is not ( baptize persons in the covenant ) but ( disciples or believers of all nations . ) to that of the devils making a verbal profession , i have answered before . that which he saith that the judgment of charity ( meaning that they were in covenant ) was the rule by which john baptist and the apostles walked in baptizing is not true , for they baptized upon their profession which they certainly knew . and though they had no infallable knowledge of the individuals election or being in covenant , but baptized hypocrits not a few , yet they had an infallible knowledge of individuals confessing sins , brofessing repentancc and faith , for they heard them , and this was their rule , not the conjectural knowledg of a persons interest in the covenant or election of grace . sect . viii . acts . , . proves that interest in the promise intitles not to baptism without repentance . mr. church brings in a second objection , which is in effect what i allege exam. pag. . a right to evangelical promises is not the adequat reason of baptism , for the jews were in the promise acts . , . yet not baptized without preceeding repentance . to which he answers thus , a visible right to the promise either by shews of grace ( as in those of riper years ) or by the meaning a species in the promise without restriction , of which the parties to be baptized are individuals ( as the infants of visible professors are ) is a sufficient reason for baptism . to which i reply . if visible right ro the promise by shews of grace be a sufficient reason for baptism , then the rule i set down for admitting to baptism is yeilded to be aright . but for the new made rule of mr. church it is but an humane ivention without scripture warrans . he supposeth the infants of visible professors to be in the promise without restruction , and the promise i conceive he means is ( i will be thy god and the god of thy seed gen. . . ) but it is most false that that promise is made to any meer visible professors , but to abraham , not to any true believers natural seed , much less to any meer visible professors natural seed , but onely to a●rahams seed , who are onely elect and true believers of the gentils according to the spiritual part of it , as is proved before . yet were it granted that not onely the species , but also the individuals were named expressly in the covenant , i should deny they were to be baptized according to ordinary rule till they were known disciples and believers . the jewish people are in covenant rom. . , , , , . and yet not to be baptized till they believe , and peter acts . , . requires repentance for baptism , of whom he sayth , the promise is to you . but he tels me , the learned and rational of the anabaptists confess that if it could appear to them that an infant is in the covenant they would not doubt of the baptism of it , i answer , whatever others do , yet i disclaim that confession . i have granted sundry times as examen part . sect . part . . sect. . that regenerate , justified , adopted persons born into the world who have the inward grace are not to be debarred baptism , if it be known by special revelation , for they are then known disciples and believers . but i never said this of an infant in covenant . for an infant may be in covenant even then when he is unregenerate ( being in covenant ) nothing no more then having the promise made to him , which may be afore he is born , and therefore i should not yeld that of being in covenant , which i would do of actual regeneration . but mr. church makes some shew of answering the argument from acts . , . he tels us those jews rejecting and crucifying christ and atheistically mocking ●at gospel truths , ceased to have a visible right to the promise , untill they regained it by repentance . answer mr. church pag. . saith being in the promise is the reason rendred by the appostle for the receiving of baptism acts . , . therefore they that are rightly judged in it may be baptized . pag. . being in the promise is the onely reason mentioned by the apostle for baptism . doth not thus plainly assert that the jews then were righly judged by peter to be in the promise , and their right thereby to batism ? how then is it true which here he saith they ceased to have a visible right to the promise till they raigned repentance ? but it is not once onely that this author is off and on , saying and unsaying at a little distance . here he requires a visible right in the promise regained by repentance , a little before he saith the species being named without restriction in the promise as a sufficient reason of baptism . however i take his confession that notwithstanding what he said pag. . , . from acts . . . of the promise to them and their children , and thence inferring their infants tittle to baptism , as being the children of visible professors , to whom god had promised to be a god and to their seed , yet here he saith they ceased to have a visible right to the promise until they regained it by repentance , which the apostle supposeth they then had not , even then when he said , the promise is to you and your children : for he exhorteth to it as a thing to be done . but mr. church flutters like a bird in a net , seeking some evation from this objection , though all in vain . he tels us they were a mixt company to whom the apostles spake acts . , . and not all jews , for they were of divers languages ; and that they were adulti . but what is this to the avoyding the objection , that notwithstanding it is said the promise is to you , yet they were not intitled to baptism without repentance . he then discourseth , that repentance was in them onely in fieri before their baptism ▪ and that the apostle accepted of probabilities of it and baptized them ; for in that distance from his preaching , and their baptizing , so many could not have repentance visible by its fruits and discernable , and thence would gather , if such hainous sinners were baptized upon probability of repentance , therefore infants of christians guilty of no actual sin may be baptized unto repentance . to which i reply , . it is expressly said ver . . they that gladly received the word were baptized , therefore there were visible fruits of repentance and faith discerned by the apostles and other disciples , who were many and could confer with them in that space of time , and baptize them in that day , though their conversion was easily discernable without distinct conference with each . . his argument is not worth a rush , notwithstanding cyprians words to back it , to prove infant-baptism . for it goes upon this frivolous supposition , that infants because they have no actual sin may be baptized , though they shew no repentance , much rather then hainous and great transgressors upon probability of repentance . as if lesser sinners might be baptized upon no testimony of repentance , because greater sinners are baptized upon probability of repentance , which if true , the more civil and orderly persons , though pharisaically minded , as if they needed no repentance , have much more right to baptism , then publicans confessing their sins because but probably penitent . . all this is nothing to answer the objection , but to strengthen it , that notwithstanding the promise was to them , yet they were not to be baptized till their repentance , either in facto esse , or in fieri , either visible in fruits or at least probably conceived , of which neither is to be said of infants . yet mr. church is not ashamed to conclude thus . being in the promise is the onely reason mentioned by the appostle for baptism , ( whereas repentance is undeniably prerequired ) and that if any disable the reason he imputes not a little weakness to the apostles and their converts ; wheras he that disables the inference from being rightly judged in the promise to right of baptism , doth vindicate the apostle from weakness , which paedobaptists do by their exposition and inference thence blemish him with , and cast the blame of weakness onely on mr. church and such inconsiderate expounders and disputers as he is . i had not thought to have said so much of so poor a piece as that book is ; yet lest any say it is not answered i add . sect . ix . infants are not proved by mr. church , to be of the visible church christian. his second argument is , infants of christians are rightly judged to be of the church with christians of riper years , therefore they may be baptized . to which i say , his words are ambiguous , it being uncertain whether he means the antecedent of the visible or invisible church , of all infants of christians , or some ; but conceiving it meant of all , and of the visible church of christians , i deny the antecedent . and for his ten arguments , not one proveth it . the medium of the first is the antecedent of the former argument , to which i have answered before , denying that all the infants of christians are rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god , expressed gen. . . in those words , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed . but i deny the consequence also , that if it were true , that all the infants of christians are rightly judged in the promise of propriety in god , therefore they are rightly judged to be of the visible church : nor is it proved by that which he allegeth , ( for they onely are aliens from the common-wealth of israel , which are strangers from the covenant , ephes. . . ) for if it did prove , that all that are strangers from the covenant of promise are aliens from the visible church of christians , yet it proves not , that all who are in the covenant are in the visible church ; but the very truth is , neither the one nor the other is proved from that place ; for this only is asserted there , that the ephesians who were gentiles in the flesh , who are called uncircumcision , by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made with hands , no proselytes were in the time of their infidelity & idol-service , then without the policy of israel and the covenants of promise : but it doth not follow that every one that was then uncircumcised in the flesh , and out of the policy of israel , meaning the outward policy , was stranger from the promise of propriety in god , meaning of it of saving propriety ; for cornelius , acts . was a stranger from the policy of israel , being no citizen , but unclean , as being a gentile , uncircumcised , yet then he feared god , god heard his prayers , accepted his alms , &c. much less now that every one that is rightly judged to be in the promise of propriety in god is of the visible church , or every one that is rightly judged of the visible church , is rightly judged to have the promise of propriety in god. his next argument is , infants of christians are rightly called the lords children , for his manner hath been to call the children of his people his children . in the old world some were called the sons of god , as children of his people , gen. . , . and the infants of the israelites were called by him , his children born to him , ezek. . , . and their lawfull seed , a seed of god. and the jews were accounted to him great and small in every age untill the breaking off ; and the same was prophesied of the gentiles , when they shall be converted , and of the jews when they shall be grafted in again : and the psalmist calls himself the lords servant , as he was the son of his handmaid : therefore such infants are rightly judged to be of the church , which is the house of god. answ. not one of these texts proves the church-membership of christians infants . the term sons of god , gen. . , . is attributed to persons before the floud , and those not infants , but such as took them wives of all that they chose , which could not be said of infants ; nor are they said to be sons of god , because children of believers , but because they professed the true worship of god , dei filios professione christ. cartwright eborac . annot. in locum , such as descending from seth and enoch professed the true worship of the true god , new annot. i omit the opinions of josephus , aquila , and many of the ancients , recited by mr. gataker against pfochenius , cap. . and the other of the chaldee paraphrase , r. solomon , symmachus , that they are called sons of god , because sons of potentates or judges , of which mr. cartwright ubi supra , and that of others sons of god , that is , eminent men , because i think the other is more right : however they are not called sons of god , that is , visible church-members by their descent , but by their profession , which is not to be said of infants . it is true ezek. . , . the children of israel are said to be born to god , that is , of right as their land was the lords land , hos. . . and this did aggravate their sin , that those that were of right his were sacrificed to idols : now this was by reason of that peculiar interest which god had in that people , vers . . but that what is said of the sons of the jews is true of all the infants of believers , or that this is enough to entitle the infants of christians to visible church-membership , and the initial seal , as they call it , is yet to be proved . of mal. . , . i have spoken sufficiently in the first part of this review , sect. . . of the ample disquisition : to which i add that in the second edition of the new annot. these words are added suitable to my exposition of a legitimate seed ; all other seed is spurious , not a lawfull seed ; nor such fathers are lawfull fathers , who so pervert the order and ordinance of matrimony , god puts his mark of infamy upon the seed it self , deut. . . which shews that with calvin that authour understood , by a seed of god , a legitimate seed . that which is said psalm . . a seed shall serve him , it shall be accounted to the lord for a generation , hath no shew of any thing for infants visible church-membership : it cannot be expounded of infants while such : for how can it be said , they shall serve the lord ? but it notes onely a continuance of the church promised in a people , who should when some decease , stand up after them to serve the lord. the impertinency of that jer. . . is shewed before . as little to the purpose is that psalm . . he doth not say , he was the lords servant as he was the son of his handmaid ; and it was to express his mean condition or humility , as mary , luke . . not his privilege , and his subjection to god , not his right he could clame from god ; yet if there were any privilege imported in this title ( son of thine hand-maid ) mr. church must prove it to be church-membership , and that not proper to him as a jew , but common to all christians ere it will serve his turn , which he cannot do . enough is said before in the ample disquition , to prove that cor. . . children are not denominated holy , because they appertain to the church . the remnant to be called holy , isai . . are either such jews as in the captivity escaped alive , who should be holy in respect of their worship , not serving idols , but the living god , or such converted believers in the christian church as should be written in the book of life , which makes nothing to infants church-membership . the church is not called the circumcision , rom. . . & . . but the jewish people . the christians infants are not rightly judged to be of the church christian , because the hebrews children were of the church jewish , god now not taking one whole nation for his church , but disciples of christ in all nations . abraham is said , rom. . . to have received the sign of circumsion a seal of the righteousness of faith , which he had yet being uncircumcised ; but that any other mans circumcision was so to him , much less that every infants circumcision was such to them , i reade not : sure the tenour of the words imports no more than this , that abrahams circumcision in his own person was an assurance to all believers though themselves uncircumcised of righteousness by faith to be imputed to them also . what divines though of never so great esteem thence infer of the nature of circumcision , that it is a seal of the righteousness of faith , of all sacraments , that it is their nature to be seals of the covenant of grace , that to whom the covenant belongs to them the seal belongs , and consequently to infants , are but their mistakes , not the doctrine of the text. of mark . enough is said before . of infants may be the kingdom of god , yet they not in the visible church . the speech ( out of the church is no salvation ) is true of the invisible church of the elect , and is so expounded by dr. morton apol. cath. and others ; of the visible it is not true ; rahab had been saved though she had never been joyned to the visible church of the jews . what i said , that it is uncertain whether the infants brought to christ , mark . . were the infants of christian disciples or believers , is true ; for it is not said , their parents brought them , and though it be probable they that brought them believed on christ , yet it is uncertain whether they believed him to be the christ , or some eminent prophet , as matth. . . luke . . the daughter of the syrophoenician was called a dog , matth. . . not because she was not a believers childe , but because a gentiles childe , not an israelitess . though di●t . . . isai . . circumcision of the heart and the spirit be promised to the seed of the godly , yet it is not promised to any but the elect , as the fuller promise , isai. . . is expounded by christ himself , john . . and therefore not as mr. church saith , to children , as they are the children of gods people , if ( as ) be taken reduplicatively ; for then all the children of gods people should have the spirit promised . nor is the spirit promised to them in their infancy , and yet if it were , till they shew it , we have no warrant to take them for visible church-members , or to baptize them without special revelation . it is largely proved above that acts . . no infant is called a disciple . there may be hope of infants salvation , they may be of the body of christ , though they be not of the visible church . our infants and our selves though believers are yet heathens , that is , of the nations by birth , and had been reputed dogs as well as the woman of canaans childe , matth. . . if we had then lived : but in the sense as it is now used , and as it was a title of infamy and rejection , matth. . we are not to be called heathens , that is , infidels , and whose society is to be shunned ; nor our infants , who are neither infidels nor believers , they being not capable of faith in that state ordinarily : as in logick they say , a whelp till the ninth day is neither blinde nor seeing , there being a middle of abnegation of either extreme , by reason of the incapacity of the subjects , so we may say our infants are neither infidels nor believers . what mr. church allegeth out of rev. . . serves onely to beget hatred towards antipaedobaptists : for ( without ) there is meant of being without the city or heavenly jerusalem , vers . . and dogs , there are ranked with sorcerers , and whoremongers , and murderers , and idolaters , and such like ; neither of which needs be said of infants ; though we say , they are not visible members in the christian church , and that they are not yet believers . christ an infant was head of the church , yet visibly he appeared not the head of the church , till he was manifested to be so . infants may be members of christ the head invisibly , but not visibly till they shew faith . sect . x. infants capacity of some respects different from discipleship , entitles them not to baptism . in the third argument is not much more than was said before , and is answered . jews infants were meet for circumcision , because of the command to them ; ours not meet for baptism , because we have no command or example : it is true matth. . . a little childe is made a pattern to those that are saved , in respect of humility or freedom from ambition : but it doth not thence follow that this meer negation of ambition doth qualifie them for baptism , unto which , actual discipleship or profession is ordinarily necessary . christ admittted to him , and blessed little children , mark . . but did not appoint to baptize them , which it is likely he would , if he had judged them meet for it . if parents may enter into covenant for their children , and dedicate them by solemn vow , as hannah did , ( of which there is cause of doubt whether now it is to be done as then ) yet it follows not they are to be baptized , sith baptism is to be the persons own engagement , not anothers for him : yea if this reason be good each parent may baptize its own childe , though a woman , sith hannah could dedicate her childe by vow to god : if israel be holiness to the lord , jer. . . yet it follows not believing gentiles infants are meet for baptism , joel . . the children that suck the breast are required to fast : if this prove them meet for baptism , by like reason should the ninivites children and cattle be meet too , jonah . , , . the psalmist was cast on god from his mothers belly , psal. . . not by dedication to god , but by special providence , as vers . . shews . infants of christians , it is rightly judged may have in them the principal things signified by baptism , but not that they have them till they shew it . if mr. church could make it good that god undertakes for what is wanting in the infants of his people through infancy , as he doth for what is wanting in his people through infirmity , he should say somewhat to purpose : but i am out of hope to finde any good proofs from him , but trifling dictates and impertinent allegations , psalm . . is a prayer , wherein the psalmist prays god , to be surety for him for good , that is , says the new annot. to put himself between him and his enemies , as if he were his pledg : it is no undertaking he will , and if it be , it is nothing for his infants , surely not to supply what is wanting in them by reason of infancy for baptism ; he will circumcise the hearts of his peoples children , deut. . . but this is meant of their elect children onely , and not necessarily to be performed in infancy . christs promise matth. . . is upon condition of agreement by two or three to ask in his name , nor is it said for them and theirs , however not without subordination to his secret purpose , and other limitations . that of isai . , is rightly expounded in the new annot. by learned mr. gataker , all his kindred and allies with their issue as well small as great shall partake of eliakims honour , in one imployment or other : so that this with the other texts , might as well prove a man in the moon , as that which mr. church infers , therefore such infants are judged meet for baptism . his next , that christians infants have righteousness by imputation , rom. . . as they have guilt by imputation , is true onely of the elect , but makes them not meet for baptism till they are called . what he says , shews of grace are not necessary to the judging infants of christians meet for baptism , is said without proof ; the contrary is proved before . all his reasons he brings to prove it , serve as well to prove them not necessary that a person be judged meet for the lords supper . infants may be rightly judged to have original sin in them without shews , because the scripture says so , but tells us of none meet for baptism , but disciples and believers . the israelites infants did as much eat the lords supper , as were baptized , cor. . , , , . if the text proves the one , it proves the other . baptism is called baptism unto repentance , matth. . . as well as baptism of repentance , it is well it is confessed that johns baptism was called the baptism of repentance ; but it is true also that it is often so called mark . . luke . . acts . . & . . and but once unto repentance : and it might have been observed which beza notes on matth. . . that it might be there read ( at repentance , or when they repent ) as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , matth. . . is rendered , ( at the preaching of jonah ) however if it be read ( unto repentance ) the meaning is to the same effect , that when he baptized them they professed repentance for the present , and for the future . in answer to the objection , infants by like reason should have the lords supper , he tells us , that the ceremonies are different , in the one the person is to be active , in the other passive : but the scripture says not so , but requires baptism as a duty , and thereto profession of faith as a prerequisite . he saith , baptism is the sacrament of entrance into the church , the other of progress ; but this proves the rather that infants should have the lords supper , sith they are to grow and make progress after their entrance . what he saith , it cannot be given to infants , is false : for they can take bread and wine , and it was given them six hundred years together , as many both protestants and papists confess . what he saith argument . pag. . sealing the covenant by an initial sacrament to infants of gods people aforetime was not peculiar to that church-state , is manifestly false : for that sealing was no other than circumcision , which if it were not proper to the jewish church-state , nothing was . it is frivolous which mr. church says , the commission to baptize must be expounded by the command to circumcise . what is said about the antiquity of infant-baptism is elsewhere answered , exam. part . . apol. sect. , . praecursor sect. . dionysius areopagita is a spurious authour , as whole juries of protestants and papists confess . salmasius saith in his letter to colvius , pag. . that he is no elder than the fith age , pag. . it is certain that he wrote about the fith age . there 's plainer proof for episcopacy being in use nearer the apostles days than for paedobaptism : it is no intolerable presumption but a certain truth in them that assert , that infant-baptism is not so ancient as is pretended , as now taught is a late innovation . in his fifth arg. he undertakes to shew , infants have great profit by baptism , but either asserts a meer title , or a profit which they have not by their baptism , or that which they may have without it . it is not true , that there is the like profit to infants by baptism as by circumcision ; for the one is appointed and not the other , and there is no penalty for omitting infant-baptism as for neglecting infant-circumcision , nor any promise or privilege assigned to infant-baptism as to infant-circumcision . sect . xi . the agreements between circumcision and baptism , do not justifie infant-baptism , and the validity of sealing infants with an initial seal now , is shewed to be null . his sixth and last argument runs thus , the promise was sealed by the initial sacrament aforetime to infants of visible professors , seeking it for them both jews and gentile , therefore it may be sealed to the infants of christians by the initial sacrament . the antecedent he proves not , it is in effect no more than the infants of jews and proselytes were circumcised , onely mr. church useth the affected phraseology of paedobaptists to call that sealing the promise by the initial sacrament , which is no more than circumcision , which it is false did seal , or assure to every circumcised person the promise of propriety in god , or any other promise made in the covenant with abraham , gen. . and he says , it was sealed to infants of visible professors ; intimating it was done to them by reason of their profession , and not to others ; whereas the infants of any in his house , whether born in abrahams house , or bought with his money , who were not of his seed , but a strangers children , were by command to be circumcised . he puts in his conclusion ( our baptism ) for ( sealing by the initial sacrament ) but to let pass these stale paralogisms ; he takes on him to prove the consequence by six arguments . the first is , the principal promise is not made void . he means that gen. . . but gives no reason why that should be the principal promise , and not that v. . but i grant that promise gen. . . meant of abrahams seed by faith is not made void . he thence concludes , therefore it may be sealed to the infants of christians by the initial sacrament in this dispensation ; which is not a proof of the consequence , but of the conclusion of the former argument ; nor is there any force in this inference : for though the promise were still in force as then , yet it is not a sufficient reason to baptize an infant , the command being not to baptize persons in covenant , but disciples of christ. in his second he tells us , sealing that promise by an initial sacrament to infants of gods people ( which was the substance of circumcision , and a distinct thing from it ) did not of right cease with the jewish church-state ; for it was not peculiar to that church as a national church ; for that promise was sealed to infants by the initial sacrament long before the existence of a national church , and to infants of strangers which were not of that nation gen. . . sealing the promise by an initial sacrament is principally in reference to the catholik church . for shews of grace are sufficient to it , though● the parties have not joyned themselves to any particulor church acts . , . and . and one that cannot be rightly judged to be of the catholick church cannot have the promise sealed to him by an initial sacrament , though he be a member of a particular church . answer . that which mr. church saith ( sealing that promise by an initial sacrament to infants of gods people was the substance of circumcision and a distinct thing from it ▪ ) is many waies faulty in respect of falsehood , and obscurity . for . the substance of circumcision as a type or shadow is christ exhibited , as the apostle col. . . not the promise of god to every infant of a believer by profession . as circumcision was asign or taken of the covenant made with abraham ; and it is true the promise gen. . . was the thing signified by it , but not onely that part , i will be the god of thy seed , but also the other , i will be thy god , yea and all the rest of the promises as ver . . thou shalt be a father of many nations , fruitfulness , descent of kings ver . . inheritance of canaan ver . . yet how the promises or the sealing of them should be the substance of circumcision i do not understand . circumcision was a ceremony consisting of an action and a relation . circumcision as an action hath no other substance or essence but the cutting off the little skin , as a relation , the signifying , or sealing is the very relation , but it is a trifling speech to say , paternity is the substance of paternity , if the promises sealed be meant to be the substance yet no logicians i know so speak , to call the object of sight the substance of sight , the thing signified the substance of the sign . faith is heb. . . said to be the substance of things hoped for , but there the act is said to be the substance of the object , not the object the substance of the act , & so the covenant should not be the substance of circumcision , but circumcision , the substance of the covenant . . it is more unintelligible to me , how sealing the promise by an initial sacrament to infants of gods people was the substance of circumcision and yet a distinct thing . for , first , if he mean that it was the substance of circumcision as a relation , that is the essence of it ( in which sense only i know how to understand his speech ) then sure it was the very same and no distinct thing , the essence being not a distinct thing from the essentiate , the thing defined and definition are not two distinct things , though the notion be formally distinct ; if he mean that sealing that promise by an initial sacrament should be the genus to circumcision , yet so it should not be a distinct thing , the genus and species are not distinct really but formally , quae formaliter distinguunter non habent se ut res et . res kick. ●ist . log . lib. . part . . cap , . nor was there any other sealing that promise by an initial sacrament then by circumcision , and therefore no real distinction , all the distinction was meerly notional or verbal , circumcision being one word , and sealing with the initial seal at that time another , yet both expressing the same thing . if any imagine a sealing with an initial seal then that was not circumcision let him shew what it is and were commanded : mr. church himself pag. . calls circumcision the initial sacrament aforetime . . sealing the promise by an initial sacramment is said to be the substance of circumcision , yet pag. . he saith it was a distinct thing from sealing the promise , and only a ceremony for that time . wherin sundry inconsistences seem to be . that sealing the promise by an initial seal should be the substance of circumcision , & yet circumcision a distinct thing from it . is the substance of a being a distinct thing from it ? the substance of a man a distinct thing from a man ? . that sealing the promise should be the substance of circumcision , and yet circumcision onely a ceremony for that time . is that a ceremony to a thing which is the substance of it ? . that circumcision doth cease yet not that sealing the promise by that initial sacrament which was no other then circumcision . let him that can read these riddles , i am no such ocdipus as to unfold them . but let mr. church use what gibberish he please i know no other initial sacrament then that of circumcision mentioned in the old testament , nor any sealing then commanded but it , and if it cease , then all the ruls about it cease to bind , and so are no rule to us now . but saith he pag. . the sealing of promise is not ceased , far seals are added in dispensation to the covenant . to which i reply . a thing is said to cease either of right or of fact which was of right to be or had being before but not now . there was no sealing by an initial seal aforetime that had being of right or of fact aforetime but circumcision , which mr. church saith was the initial seal aforetime , therefore circumcision ceasing , sealing with the initial seal aforetime ceased , there being no other foretime . but saith mr. church it is not ceased , for seals are added in this dispensation to the covenant , he means doubtless baptism and the lords supper , and by seals other seals , and so his reason is sealing of the promise by an initial sacrament which was aforetime is not ceased , because other seals are added , which is as if one should say , the night is not past because the sun is risen , the reason is good to the contrary , there are other seals added , therefore the sealing with the initial seal , aforetime is ceased . but , saith he , it did not of right cease with the jewish church state : for it was not peculiar too that church as a national church . answer . if circumcision were not perticular to the jewish church-state i know nothing peculiar to it . and if it were not peculiar to that church as a national church why was the nation peculiarly called the circumcision , and other people the uncircumcision rom. . . and for that which is alledged , that promise was scaled to infants by the initial sacrament long before the existence of a national church and to infants of strangers which were not of that nation , i conceive neither is true . for circumcision was not till abrahams nation were a church . for he had before that time taught them the way of the lord gen. . ● . and they worshipped the true god , as appears by the many altars he built to jehovah ▪ and though abrahams house was but a small nation , yet it was a nation . and though infants of strangers were circumcised , yet it was not without in corporation into that nation , so that they were of that nation if not by birth , yet as proselytes added thereto ; nevertheless if it had been before the existence of the national church of the jews , it might cease with that church-state , as the distinction of clean and unclean beasts was before abrahams dayes , as appears by gen. . . and yet that distinction ceased with the jewish church state . as for his second reason it is of no force . for when he saith , sealing the promise by an initial sacrament is principally in reference to the catholike church ▪ he means it , i conceive , of baptism , else acts . , . & . . are cited to no purpose . but there is no colour of consequence in mr. churches reason , thus framed , baptism joined men to the universal church , therefore circumcision was not peculiar to the jewish church-state , or that it ceased not with the jewish church-state . as for his other assertion , that [ one that cannot be rightly judged to be of the catholick church , cannot have the promise rightly sealed to him by an initial sacrament , though he be a member of a particular church , ] it being of no weight to the present argument , i shall not so fitly meddle with it till i come to answer the . ch . of mr. bs. first part of plain scripture proof , &c. as for his third argument , it proves not the consequence . [ for though faith and repentance be required of some afore circumcision ] yet it was not required of infants afore circumcision . but afore baptism it is required of all mat. . . mark . . acts . . & . , , . to the fourth , i say though [ infants now are capable of the promise as the jews infants were , ] and that [ they could bear baptism as well as the jews infants could circumcision , yet without a like command ( which cannot be found ) they are not to be baptized as the other were to be circumcised . as for the fifth argument , it is false , that [ baptism is as appliable to infants as circumcision was ; for there is not the like command , without which though it were , that no more action were required in the subject to be baptized then in the subject to be circumcised ( which is false , as appears from matt. . . mark . acts . . acts . , , . ) and though it were that the parities were more between them then they are , yet they make no rule for baptism without a command or institution . but it is false which he saith , that baptism is the same sacrament with circumcision and as for the twelve parities , brought by mr. church , some are doubtful , as the first [ that they are both initial sacraments of the covenant of grace ] in some sense with some limitations it may be true , but in other , even in that sense it is commonly taken , it is not true ; to wit , that the essence of them consists therein , and that they are so to all rightly circumcised or baptized . the second is likewise ambiguous , in some sense true , in some false . those that might not be rightly judged to be in the promise might be circumcised , however it be concerning baptism . and those that may be rightly accounted to be of the church , meaning the invisible , yet are not therefore to be baptized . the third likewise is doubtful by reason of the different waies of being accounted to the church , and the doubt whether a person be to be accounted of the church afore baptism or after . the words acts . . . seem to prove that they are added to the church after baptism . neither is the fourth or fifth certain . for women ordinarily entred into the church aforetime without circumcision , and did eat the passeover . the eighth is not true of every circumcised persons circumcision , nor of every baptized persons baptism , that it is an external seat of the righteousness of faith . in the tenth something is untrue . for in the new dispensation ( as the phrase is ) are not both temporal and spiritual promises sealed as well as in the former , if he mean it of the same temporal promises , we have better promises heb. . but not the ●ame , not the promise of the land of canaan , of greatness , prosperity , &c. but rather a prediction of persecution , if we will live godly in christ jesus . christians have christ , and all other things by that part of the covenant made with abraham , which is spiritual , but not by that part which is proper to the israelites . in the eleventh mr. church seems to be out in his computation about the beginning of baptism , and end of circumcision . he saith [ circumcision of right ended when baptism began to be an initial sacrament , and that was not surely till iohn began to baptize , which was not till the fifteenth year of tiberius , as is plain from luke . , . now mark his reason , for christs circumcision was the period of it . now if christs circumcision was the period of it , then it did cease almost thirty years before baptism began to be an initial sacrament , christ being circumcised in the reign of augustus . but whence doth he gather that circumcision of right ended , when baptism began to be an initial sacrament ? for my part i find no such thing in scripture . if our lords words iohn . , . do not prove it was then in force , yet those speeches of the apostle ephes. . , , . of abolishing the law of commandments in ordinances , and slaying the enmity by his cross , and col. . . of blotting out the hand-writing of ordinances , which was against us , and took it away nailing it to his cross , do determine that circumcision did of right continue until christs death , and so some years after , baptism began to be a sacrament initial . the usual doctrine is , that the ceremonies of the law became dead with christ , deadly after the open promulgation of the gospel , and calling of the gentiles , diodati annot . on matth. . . and this breach was a sign that by the death of christ all mosaical ceremonies were annihilated . but mr. church tells us , circumcision ceased to be needful when iohn began to baptize , for the law is said to continue but untill john , luke . . to which i answer , i know not why circumcision should not be as needful as the pass over , which our saviour himself observed luke . . and offering the gift to the priest that moses commanded , matth. . . i presume the command of circumcision was in force till after christs death as well as the command of the passeover , seventh day sabbath and other things . as for mr. church his reason if it were good , that circumcision was needless when iohn began to baptise , because it is said the law was untill iohn , by the same reason he might say ▪ all the rest of the law , yea and the prophets were needless , when iohn began to baptize . but the meaning is , the ministery of the law and prophets continued , till iohn , or as it is matth. . . all the prophets and the law prophecied until iohn , that is , declared christs comming as future , and when iohn began then the kingdom of god began to be preached , and therefore mark . , . the beginning of the gospel of iesus christ the son of god is said to be upon iohns preaching ; for then the messiah was named as present , behold the lamb of god which taketh away the sin of the world , john. . . lastly saith mr. church [ the apostle plainly teacheth that baptism is the same sacrament to christians that circumcision was to gods people aforetime col. . . . arguing against the continuance of circumcision : in this dispensation he uses two arguments , which argue no less . for . christ being come ( who was the body of the old shadows ) they of right ceased . . that baptism was now the sign of our mortification , for which circumcision served aforetime . ] to which i answer , neither doth the apostle plainly , that is , in express terms , teach col. . , . what ever mr. church , or mr. calvin say , that baptism is the same sacrament to christians that circumcision was to gods people aforetime , nor do his reasons prove it . for by the same reason we might say it of putting away of leaven out of their houses , and keeping the passeover with unleavened bread : baptism is the same sacrament to christians that the feast of unleavened bread was to gods people aforetime . for . christ being come ( who was the body of the old shadows ) they of right ceased . . that baptism is now the sign of mortification , for which keeping the feast with unleavened bread served aforetime , cor. . , . but were all these parities between circumcision and baptism , which master church mentions , right , yet they prove not his conclusion , that the initial sacrament in this dispensation is as appliable to infants of christians as the initial sacrament aforetime was to infants of gods people . for if not all these , yet as many other parities may be reckoned , at least according to paedobaptists hypotheses , between baptism and the passeover , as , that they are both sacraments of the covenant of grace , both ceremonies to be used about those that might rightly be judged in the promise , and accounted of the church , the ordinary way of communion in the church , not allowed to those without , engaging to observancy of the covenant according to the several administrations , signs of mortification , external seals of the righteousness of faith distinguishing gods people from infidels , to cease at christs comming , &c. and yet i suppose mr. church will not have them the same sacrament . yea as many disparities between circumcision and baptism may be reckoned as mr. church reckons parities , as that the one was a shadow of christ to come , not the other ; the one a token of the mixt covenant made to abraham , which was of promises peculiar to the jews , not the other ; the one a domestick action to be done in the house , the other an ecclesiastick belonging to the church ; the one to be done by the parents in that respect , not so the other ; the one with cutting off a part , not the other ; the one with drawing blood , not the other ; the one to males onely , the other to females also ; the one to be on the eighth day whatever it were , the other not limitted to any precise day ; the one made a visible impression on the body , and that permanent , not so the other ; the one to be done with an artificial and sharp , the other with a natural and not wounding instrument ; the one to all males belonging to the house of abraham even infants , but not to others though godly , except they joined themselves to that family : the other to believers or disciples of all nations ; the one engaging to keep moses his law , not so the other . but be the disparities or parities what they will , the only rule in these meer positive rites is the institution or command : so that were the sacraments ( as they are called ) the same in kind , use , analogy , or what other way they may be deemed the same , yet without a rule of command or example intimating such a command , we are not bound to do the like in the one , as we do in the other . as for the sixth argument , that nothing can be soundly collected from the scriptures against infant-baptism ; the contrary hath appeared above in the second part of this review sect . &c. what he grants that it may be soundly gathered that all of riper years should be discipled before baptism from the commission matth. . . doth also prove , that they had no commission to baptize any but discipled persons , and so none but those of riper years , not infants unless there be shewed some other commission : which is not to be found in the scripture , but only in corrupt tradition of antiquity , and the jewish arguings of latter divines , and is not yet found any other then will-worship . to all which mr. church further brings answer is made before , the vindicating of my objections will most fitly come in the reply to masters marshalls defence , to which i shall hasten after the dispatch of some few other authors . sect . xii . doctor featley his argument for infant-baptism from the covenant , is examined . mr. rutherford is another of the authors , whose writing mr. baxter tells , yet remains to be answered . but i know not any writing of his in which he doth directly dispute against anti-paedobaptists . i confess i have met with a dispute against those of the congregational way of discipline in his peaceable and temperate plea , c. . q. . for denying baptism to those infants whose next parent is not a known believer in some gathered church , who yet do hold and practise baptism of such infants , whose next parent is a church-member . but that dispute going only against them , and upon his grounds denied and refuted by me elsewhere , it were out of my way to answer what he saith there . if there be any other writing of his , i presume some one or other of the antagonists i refute , have the strength of it : yet i intend if such a one do occurre to me , to give account of it as i shall find meet . mr. robert baillee is another to whose writing mr. b. points me . but his first argument i have already enervated in the addition to my apology in my letter to him , and answering his three first criminations , especially the third , and have shewed , sect . . that he doth but calumniate , when he charges us to affirm , that no infants have any place in the covenant of grace , or any gospel promises till they be called by the word , and by an actual faith have embraced the gospel . what other arguments he brings are answered either in answering others that bring the same , or it s intended shall be answered in fit place . there are many others who have written of this argument in the english tongue , each of which forms his argument from the covenant to the initial seal , from infant circumcision to infant-baptism , with some difference in terms , or phrasifying , though in effect all of them are reduced into the three forms in the , , . sect . of my exercitation , and rest on these false principles , that interest in the covenant of grace was the adequate reason of a persons title to circumcision , and is the adequate reason of a persons title to baptism , and that there is the like reason of baptizing infants of believers , as of circumcising infants of abraham by virtue of the like interest in the covenant , though there be not the like command for the one as for the other , nevertheless that it may not be said i have neglected any thing conceived worth answering , or to have slighted any of their labours , i shall briefly answer the arguments of such as have come to my hands , and then more largely answer mr. geree , mr. marshall , mr. cobbet , mr. blake , mr. baxter , who have opposed my writings , taking in others by the way , as i see fit . dr. featley is one that hath been a leader of the prelatical party , and is judged by them to have proved paedobaptism learnedly . his dispute is in his dipper d●pt , p. . arg . . thus . [ all they who are comprized within the covenant , and are no where prohibited to receive the seal thereof , may and ought to receive it : but children are comprized within the covenant of faith , whereof circumcision was a seal , rom. . . and now baptism is , ergo children may and ought to receive baptism . of the major or first proposition there can be no doubt ; for it is unjust to deprive a man of the confirmation of that to which he hath a true right or title . and for the minor or assumption , it is as cleer , for so are the words of the covenant gen. . . i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee . ] against which i except , first , that the syllogism is many waies faulty ; . that he puts in the conclusion [ children ] as all one with infants . . that in the conclusion there is this term not exprest in the major [ may and ought to receive baptism ] for that which is in the major [ may and ought to receive the seal of the covenant ] is not all one with [ may and ought to receive baptism ] baptism and seal of the covenant being not equipollent , besides circumcision , passeover , lords supper , the ephesians are said to be sealed with the holy spirit of promise ephes. . . nor is the term [ seal of the covenant ] applyed to sacraments any other than a novel expression , neither used in scripture , nor the antients . rom. . . doth not term circumcision ( much less other sacraments as they are called ) a seal of the covenant of faith , as the doctor misallegeth it , but a seal of the righteousness of faith , which he had being yet uncircumcised . whence it appears that it was a seal of what he had , not of a covenant concerning what he was to have : and this is said onely of abrahams circumcision , with such an observing of particularizing circumstances , as shew it to be appropriated to abrahams circumcision , what ever is said of circumcisions being a seal of the righteousness of faith , however divines dictate to the contrary , and therefore what the doctor addes in the minor ( which multiplies the terms in the syllogism ) [ and now baptism is ] asserting thereby baptism to be a seal of the covenant of faith , is said without proof , though i should not stick to grant it in this sense , that to the true believer his baptism assures righteousness according to gods covenant , and the true believer by baptism gives testimony or assurance of his faith according to his covenant , as being unwilling to wrangle about terms if we agree in the meaning . but in the sense paedobaptists use it , as containing the nature of a sacrament , i shall reject it in that which followes . . against the doctors omission of some words in the minor , [ and are no where prohibited to receive the seal therof ] which were in the major . . that the term [ and are no where prohibited to receive the seal thereof ] is ambiguous . for it may be understood either of an express prohibition in forbidding terms , or a prohibition by consequence . it is granted in so many express words , infants are not prohibited to receive baptism , no nor the lords supper , yet they are by good consequence to be denied both , in as much as both are disagreeing from the institution and practice of those rites in the new testament . wherefore to the doctors argument , i except against the form of it , as containing more then three terms , the predicate in the conclusion not being in the major , part of the medium in the major being left out in the minor. and if it be thus formed [ all they who are comprized within the covenant of faith , and are no where prohibited to receive the seal thereof , may and ought to be baptized : but infants of believers are comprized , &c. ergo. ] i deny the major if meant of gods covenant to us , or promise either of faith or righteousness to infants by it , as the alleging gen. . . imports the doctor meant . but grant it of those who are comprized within the covenant of faith by their covenanting to be believers , in which sense i deny the minor , that children , that is infant-children are comprized in the covenant of faith by their covenanting to be believers ; yea and if the proposition be universal , all children , or all infant-children of believers are comprized in gods covenant of faith or promise that he will give them faith or righteousness by faith , i deny it . nor is the major proved by the doctor . for it is no unjust thing to deny baptism to a person to whom it is not appointed ; now baptism is appointed to disciples or believers , not to whom god promiseth to give faith or righteousness by faith . besides were it true that god had so promised it and confirmation of it were due ; yet without institution confirmation by baptism were not due ; god hath other waies to confirm it , as by his oath heb. . . the blood of his son , cor. . . his spirit , cor. . . a man that is bound to pass an estate , and to seal it , may not be bound to a further confirmation by fine and recovery . besides its no injustice not to confirm ones right who doth not claim and prove it . but this infants do not . and for the minor , the words gen. . have nothing about the second part of the proposition , nor do indeed prove any to be comprized in that promise , but abraham and his seed , of which sort none of gentile-believers children are , but those that are true believers as he was , or elect by god to adoption of children . the objection the doctor brings in is not rightly framed , nor do i deny the answer the doctor gives is sufficient to overthrow it as so formed . but what the doctor dictates , that all true believers and their children are to be reckoned among children of the promise , is contradictory to the apostles determination rom. . , . as the apostle is expounded by dr. featly himself in the new annot. on rom. . . in which he thus speaks , not all they who are carnally born of abraham by the course of nature are the children of god to whom the promise of grace was made ; but the children of promise , that is , those who were born by vertue of the promise , those who by gods special grace were adopted ( as isaac by a special , and singular promise was begot by abraham ) they only are accounted for that seed mentioned in the covenant , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed . sect . xiii . the arguments of mr. william lyford , from the covenant for infant-baptism are examined . mr. william lyford in his apology for infant-baptism page . thus disputes . all that are taken into the covenant of grace ought to receive the initial sign [ what ever the sign be that god shall chuse ] and that according to the commandment of god , and our lord jesus christ. but infants are taken into covenant with their parents , as is proved ; therefore by the commandment of the lord they ought to receive the sign which god hath enjoined to be used , and that sign is baptism . to which i answer , by denying the major , and for his proof out of gen. . , . i deny , . that there is any command for any other initial sign but circumcision . . that circumcision is there appointed to all who are taken into the covenant of grace , not to lot , melchisedeck , job or their children , not to the females of abrahams house , not to the males under eight daies old , not to the proselytes of the gate as cornelius was . . that the adequate reason why any was to be circumcised was interest in the covenant , gen. . . but the command only . for both ishmael who was not in the covenant was to be circumcised because of the command , and as hath been shewed , others in the covenant were not to be circumcised through defect of the command . nor is the minor true , if understood of all the infants of believers , or any of them as their infants , nor is there a word to prove it gen. . . which is onely a promise to abrahams seed , and they of the gentiles are only true believers or elect persons . but perhaps mr. lyford mends the matter in the next form , which is this pag. . if infants have a right to the covenant and the initial sign therof , then it is a wrong to deny it to them . but infants have a right to the covenant and the initial sign thereof , both by gods original grant , gen. . . . and by christs confirmation of that covenant made to their fathers , rom. . therefore it is a wrong to deny it them . the covenant under which we are , is the gospel covenant , made long since with us englishmen and our infant-seed , with a command of giving them the sign , which at first was circumcision , and now baptism by the same divine authority enjoined and commanded to be given without any exception of any within the covenant . i answer by denying the minor , and to the proof by denying that gen. . , . there is command of any other initial sign than circumcision , or that circumcision is commanded to all that had a right to the covenant , or that the gospel covenant was made long since with us englishmen , and our seed as our seed , or that there was in that of circumcision any command to us to baptize infants , or that divine authority hath commanded baptism to be given without any exception of any within the covenant . but i affirm he hath commanded only to baptize those in the covenant who are disciples or believers . but mr. lyford adds further p. . all those to whom the blessings and promises in the covenant do belong , t them also belongs baptism , the sign thereof ( by the doctrine of st. peter , and of jesus christ himself ) but to infants of believing parents , the blessings and promises of the covenant do belong before actual faith , therefore by the doctrine of the holy ghost in scripture , such infants ought to be baptized before actual faith . the major or first part of this argument is the very reason of the text. the minor proposition , viz. that the blessings and promises of the covenant do belong to infants before actual faith is proved by these reasons . . by the express words of peter , which say , the promise is to your children . . by the express words of our saviour , of such is the kingdom of heaven . . by example of isaac and jacob , they were children of the promise before actuall faith , and had applied unto them the seal of the righteousness of faith . . some infants dying are saved , they are members of christs kingdom , therefore the blessing of the covenant , viz. regeneration and remission of sins through the blood of christ do also belong to them . to which i answer , blessings of the covenant are of sundry sorts , such as certainly accompanie salvation , regeneration , justification , adoption , or such as are common to reprobates , as to have teachers , example , and acquaintance with the godly , &c. both these may belong to them in present possession or assurance for the future : when they belong to them in present possession , it is either discernibly or indiscernibly . actual faith may be in the exercise or habit . infants of believers are elect or non-elect . it is true all those to whom the blessings of the covenant which accompany salvation belong in present possession discernibly , to them also belongs baptism : but so the minor is false , understood of all infants of believers : they belong not to all , but only to the elect , nor them certainly in present possession , much less discernibly during infancy : or if it be discernible , then they have actual faith , and so the minor is not true , that to infants of believing parents the saving blessings of the covenant do belong in possession discernibly before actual faith . if it be meant of the blessings of the covenant in future assurance only the major is false . nor is it true that the major is the very reason of the text act. . , . it is false that this is peters reasoning , therefore does the sign belong to peters hearers because the promise did first belong to them . for the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ] does not infer a right which they might claim , but imports a motive to duties , and of these duties first to repentance , and then baptism : so that if from thence a right be concluded , they must conclude as well a right to repentance in the first place , and then to baptism . nor is it true that acts . , . the apostles discourse is reduced to m. lyfords form of argument , or saies as he saies , they that receive the same grace are capable , yea have right to the same sign , but infants are capable of the same grace , therefore of right they are to have the same sign , i. e. the sacrament of baptism . for although the major be granted of actual possession of the spirit and magnifying god , yet it is not true only of the promise thereof . but the minor [ infants are capable of the same grace ] alters the term , which is in the major thus [ they have received the same grace ] and so mr. lyford syllogism hath four terms . nor doth the apostle say , they that are capable of the same grace are to be baptized as well as we , but , none can forbid water to baptize them that had received the holy ghost , and so were manifestly actual believers as well as themselves , though they were of the gentiles : which when it appears in infants i should yield they are to be baptized , but not meerly because of the promise or capacity of grace , for the promise agrees to jews children elect , and capacity of grace to turks children , and therfore if either or both these did intitle to baptism , the infant-children of such might be baptized . and for his proofs of the minor , it is false , that to infants of believing parents the blessings and promises of the covenant do belong before actual faith , is proved by the express words of peter . for though he say , the promise is to your children , yet he doth not say , to you as believers , or to your children in infancy as the children of believers , nor before actual faith , yea the words [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] do require actual faith afore the possession of the blessings of the promise : nor is this any miserable shift : nor is it true , that those words are quite a new thing clearly relating to another sort of people , than his present hearers , and not to them , for that expression limits all the subjects , and is put after all joined by copulative particles , and therefore is to be conceived to limit all of them . nor is the speech true of any of them without that limitation . nor is it true which mr. lyford saies , that the words do not exegetically expound to which of his hearers children the promise did belong . for they are a manifest limitation excluding some and including others . and what he saith , that peter saies [ this promise does belong to them that are afar off , and their children , as well as to you and your children ] is manifestly false . but of this text i have spoken in the first part of this review , sect . . more fully . to his second proof , i say it is false , that the express words of our saviour ( of such is the kingdome of heaven ) prove his minor. for [ of such ] is not all one with [ infants of believing parents ] nor when it is said [ of such is the kingdome of heaven ] is it all one with this [ the blessings and promises of the covenant do belong to them afore actual faith ] the kingdom of heaven is not said to be of them , because their parents were believers , its uncertain whether they were so or no ; and if they were , another reason may and ought to be conceived of their interest in the kingdome of heaven , to wit christs special and effectual blessing : nor is it said the kingdom of heaven belongs to them in actual possession ; and if it were so meant , and yet they were not appointed to be baptized ( as it appears by the evangelists they were not ) it is a good presumption , christ would not have infants , notwithstanding their interest in the kingdom of heaven , to be baptized till they became believers by profession , and knew what their engagement is th●●eby . to his third , it is true , isaac and jacob were children of the promise before actual faith , yea before they were born , and therefore if the interest in the covenant had been a sufficient reason of circumcision , they should have been circumcised afore the eighth day , which because they were not , it is an argument , that not the covenant , but the command intitled them to circumcision . to the fourth , i never denied , that to some infants the covenant belongs ; nor that they are saved , regenerated in infancy , but i deny , that this is true of all infants of believers . for the very instances brought prove the contrary , that though isaac and jacob were children of the promise , yet ishmael and esau begotten by believing parents were not , who yet were to be circumcised : nor is any a childe of the promise because he is the child of a believer , but because he is elect of god. as for mr. lyfords answer to the objection in conference with him , it is indeed no answer . for he that objects that the blessings of the covenant , belong to elect infants , not to all , and therefore under that pretence all in general are not to be baptized , doth not by that speech grant , that baptism belongs to one infant , or to any because elect , but only shews the insufficiency of the adversaries proof for that practice : as for those who deny baptism to all because they are infants , i know not who they be , the reason why it is denyed them is not because they are infants , but because in infancy they appear not to be disciples , or believers in christ , who only by the command are appointed to be baptized ; and i agree with mr. lyford , that the sacraments do belong to the elect not as elect , but as visible members and professors ( and that upon this account simon magus was baptized , though mr. lyford is mistaken in saying peter baptized simon magus , which was done by philip ) whereby mr. lyford doth indeed overthrow his dispute . for if the sacraments belong to the elect as visible members and professors , then to all and onely visible members and professours . for what belongs to any quatenus ipsum as such , belongs to all and onely such universally and reciprocally , and so if he will stand to his own words , though children be in the covenant or elect , yet till they be visible members and professors they are not to be baptized , which doth plainly refute his own argument , viz. the major of his own syllogism : nor need we by our reason know whether a person be elected that we may baptize him , but whether he be a visible member and professor . sect . xiv . the arguments of mr. stalham , mr. brinsley , mr. hall , and a nameless author , from the covenant for infant-baptism , are examined . mr. stalham in the conference at terling page . argued thus , they who are included in the substance of the gospel covenant are not to be excluded from the seal of the covenant . but infants are included in the substance of the gospel covenant , and therefore not to be excluded from the seal of the gospel covenant . but in this argument the conclusion is not of baptism in particular , and so concludes not what was to be concluded , and sith circumcision according to him was a seal of the gospel covenant , it might be true of it and so granted . yet the major if universal is not true , no not of circumcision . for women and infant-males afore the eigth day were excluded from the seal of the covenant , though they were included in the substance of the gospel covenant , s his phrasiology is , nor hath he a word in all the conference to prove his maor ; and for his minor , setting aside his phrasifying , if this be his meaning ; all the infants of believers , or the infants of believers , in as much as they are their children , have the substance of the gospel-covenant , that is the promise , gen. . . as it is a gospel promise made to them , it is false and contrary to romans . , . nor is there any thing in the conference there brought that proves it . mr. john brinsley of paedobapt . page . . makes this his first and grand argument for the baptism of infants . if children of believing parents be within the covenant , then they may be baptized , but they are within the covenant , ergo. the major he takes as granted , though i deny it as being most false . the minor he would prove , . from acts . . where he makes the promise to be of remission of sins , but that belongs only to the penitent believer , and therefore proves not that it belongs to the infant of a believer , without repentance and faith . . in that they were in the old testament in the covenant . but he himself page . saith , all infants of believing parents are in the outward visible covenant . as for the covenant it self , to speak properly and strictly , it depends upon gods election . neither doth it belong to any but those who are elected . what juggling then doth he use to tell us that they are in covenant , and that the promise belongeth to them without any difference of elect and non-elect ; and p. . he saith , to whomsoever the covenant it self belongeth , to them belongeth this seal of the covenant . and so his minor must be , but the covenant it self belongs to infants of believers : and yet to say , the covenant it self , doth not belong to any but those who are elected , but the outward visible covenant to all . but what this outward visible covenant is , he tells us not . i cannot understand any other than circumcision , for that was the outward visible covenant in the old testament , and then his minor asserts infants are in covenant as they were in covenant in the old testament , that is , they are to be circumcised . besides what interfering is there in paedobaptists ? mr. stalham saith , they are included in the substance of the gospel covenant , mr ▪ brinsley saith , the covenant it self ( and then surely not the substance of the gospel covenant ) belongs not to any but elect , but the outward visible covenant , that is a new nothing , belongs to them all . and thus people are cheated by these doctors . . in that they are federally holy , . cor. . . but of it enough already in the first part of the review . so much for mr. brinsley , one of mr. halls champions . let us see what master thomas hall himself in his font guarded page . argues ; to whomsoever the covenant it self belongs , to them also belongs the seal of the covenant ; but the covenant belongs to believers and their children : ergo the seal of the covenant belongs to them also . answ. if mr. hall mean in the minor , that the covenant it self belongs to all the children of believers , then he contradicts mr. brinsley ( out of whom he saith in his epistle to him and mr. blake he gathered his weeds ) who saith , it belongs only to the elect , and if he mean it only of the elect , then he can conclude onely concerning the elect ; if he mean the outward visible covenant , than it is either circumcision , and then he asserts circumcision to belong still to infants ; or he means baptism , and then his minor and conclusion is all one , and his argument a meer inept tautology , unless he mean some other new nothing . and indeed this argument of mr. hall is like the rest concluding of the seal of the covenant indefinitely when he should conclude of baptism , using in the major and minor the term [ the covenant belongs ] but not explaining what covenant , to whom or how it belongs , using children for infants , so that there is nothing but equivocation in his speeches . and for his propositions in the sense they are commonly taken , neither major nor minor is true , nor is the major proved though he say it is clear . for though he that hath right to a temporal inheritance hath right likewise to the seal● and deeds that do convey that inheritance to him , yet in law it is not necessary that there be a sealing to each inheritour by himself . a man may have a deed sealed for him to another as a feoffee in trust , as is usual in the case of young orphans , to one man is conveyed the estate of many . so that besides the frivolousness of this conceit to make the term [ seal of the covenant ] of the essence of baptism , though it be but a metaphor not found in scripture , and thence , and the use in civil negotiations , to make a rule for the service of god ; yet were this kind of proof allowed , the major is not true , that to whomsoever the covenant it self belongs to them als● belongs the seal of the covenant , meaning it in their own persons . for a feoffee in trust may have the estates of many conveyed to him , and so the parent by this reason may be baptized for the child . and for the other reason it is also insufficient , abrahams posterity being in covenant receive the sign of circumcision the seal of the covenant , for the seal of the covenant is as large as the covenant it self . but neither is it true that the seal of the covenant in abrahams posterity was as large as the covenant it self , the women being in covenant and yet not to be sealed in their own persons : nor if it were true doth it prove the proposition . for if it were so by vertue of a particular command , then it follows not that if it were so then it must be so now without the like command . nor is the minor proved from gen. . , , . acts . , . for in the one is affirmed only that god will be a god to abraham and his seed , which is not all one with every believer and his seed ; in the other , whatever the promise be and howsoever peter meant it was to them and their children , yet it is not said to you believers , and to your children as the children of believers , for then he had spoken false they being not then believers , and therefore it proves not that the covenant belongs to believers and their children . this is enough to shew the vanity of mr. halls disputing . for the rest of his book , he being a gatherer out of others , as he saith , and in most things he should argue , referring us as an index to their writings , i think it best to rid my hands of him , and to deal with his authors he points to . there were sent to me by some friends these two following arguments in manuscript , as judged by some unanswerable . the first thus . what privilege the proselyted gentiles had who joined themselves to abrahams family in reference to their infant seed in the ordinance of circumcision , the like privilege the christian gentiles in the new testament have in reference to their infant-seed in the ordinance of baptism . but the proselyted gentiles had this privilege , that when they were circumcised their children were circumcised in their infancy . ergo the christian gentiles have the same privilege that their children should be baptized in their infancy . to which i answer , letting pass the exception to the quaternity of terms , and conceiving [ what privilege ] is put for [ whatsoever privilege universally ] without which the argument would be all of particulars , and so the syllogism naught ; i deny the major , and my reason is , because were it a privilege or not , what was done in the use of circumcision by vertue of an express command , is not to be done in the use of baptism , without the like command . if it were , the apostles did ill in not baptizing a whole nation old and young together , and we do ill in keeping away the young ones of believers baptized from the lords supper , when being circumcised they were not debarred from the passover . the other argument is in these words . to whom the outward visible covenant of god manifestly belongs , to them in the daies of the gospel , the initiating ordinance , viz. baptism belongs . but unto the infant-seed of believers the external visible covenant of god doth manifestly belong . ergo to the infant-seed of believers in the daies of the gospel the initiating ordinance , viz. baptism belongs . to which i answer , what outward visible covenant he means , except baptism , i know not . if he speak as mr. m. speaks , and some others , i have shewed in my apology sect . . that by it is meant the outward administration of the covenant , which is no other now but baptism . now if this be the meaning of the author , the major contains a trifling tautology , in effect this , they that are to be baptized , are to be baptized , and the minor and conclusion being all one , the minor is to be denied , and the argument hissed out of schools as a ridiculous foppery . sect . xv. the dispute of mr. john geree about the extent of the gospel covenant to prove thence infant-baptism , is examined , and it is shewed , that interest in the covenant did not intitle to circumcision , nor is it proved it doth now to baptism . but mr. john geree vindic. paedobap . p. . would seem to dispute more accurately and after a syllogism which doth but repeat the conclusion in a new phrase , he disputes thus . to whom the gospel covenant is extended in the churches of christians to them the sacrament of initiation appointed for that administration of the covenant doth belong . to children of believing christians , the gospel covenant is extended in the christian churches , ergo , to them the sacrament of initiation doth belong . to which i answer , mr. geree in this syllogism hath altered the term in his prosyllogism , it was in that [ the sacrament of initiation instituted for christian churches ] here it is [ the sacrament of initiation appointed for that administration of the covenant ] and wherein he supposeth ; . the sacrament appointed for that administration of the covenant . . the sacrament of initiation appointed for the administration of the covenant all one with the sacrament of initiation instituted for the christian churches , and from thence would derive a rule for baptism . but that being a phrase not used in scripture , nor perhaps deducible from it , and at best ambiguous , it serves for no proof , and therefore serves only to mislead those understandings which are apt to be caught with such chaff . that the phrase is not used in scripture , will not i suppose be denied , no where is baptism called either a sacrament or a sacrament of initiation , or said to be appointed for that administration of the covenant , nor is it deducible from thence . for there is no place that i find , that makes this the proper and immediate use of baptism to be the administration of the covenant , so that thereby either the making of the covenant , or the conferring or assuring to the baptized the benefits of the covenant should be the next end of it self intended therein . the immediate and proper use of it is to be a sign that the person baptized repents of his sins , and renounceth specially his gentile defilements , communion with satan , and engageth himself to be christs disciple ; yet i deny not but that by consequent in the manner of doing it by dipping or plunging under water , it minds us of christs death ▪ burial and rising again , and testifyeth our salvation by him , and so in a remote manner assures to us the benefits of the covenant of grace . but in this manner it is the administration of election as well as the covenant , and is an administration of the covenant only to elect persons , and true believers , for it assures salvation onely to them , not to all that are baptized , and therefore in this respect none but they can have title to it . so that if from hence , that baptism is the administration of the covenant , a title be derived for infants to be baptized , it can intitle none but those to whom it administers the covenant , which are only the elect or true believers . but the ambiguity of the expression is much more fallacious . for . when it is said , it is appointed for the administration of the covenant , the expressions sometimes are , as if it were the administration it self , calling it the new administration , as i shew in my apology , sect . . mr. geree here p. . baptism is a seal of a new administration , and then it is all one as to say the administration of the covenant is appointed for the administration of the covenant , which is either non-sense , or at least in●ptly spoken . . when they say [ it is the administration of the covenant ] do they mean the outward or inward covenant ? the latter i presume they will not say , for then baptism should be an administration of the things promised therin , regenerarion , remission of sins , and if so , then it administers them in a natural way , and so it should in manner of a natural agent regenerate , &c. which is to confer grace ex opere operato , or in a moral way ; but baptism can administer regeneration , remission of sins , &c. no other moral way but by assuring , or perswading , or the like , what ever way it be conceived it administers not the covenant to an infant in infancy , nor to any but the elect : now if it do not administer the covenant to any but such , then it is not baptism but to such , if baptism be in its nature the administration of the covenant of grace . if they mean baptism is the administration of the outward covenant , i am yet to learn what the outward covenant is , except they mean the outward administration , which is no other then baptism , as i shew apology s. . and what is this then but to say , that baptism is the administration , or appointed for the administration of baptism ? . when they say , it is the administration of the covenant , do they mean the covenant or promise of the baptized to god , or gods promise to the baptized ? if the former , then it is no more but this , that baptism is the administration , that is the signification of the baptized his engagement to be christs disciple , which is indeed the best sense of it , but then it will not fit them , for so it is not in infants , for they signifie no profession or engagement of theirs by it . if the later , then by baptism god doth promise man ; but that 's not true , his promise is in the word before baptism , or he signifies his promise formerly made , & this can derive no title to the persons to whom the promise is made , for the signifying that promise as past is as useful for others , either baptized or unbaptized , as the then baptized , and not at all of use or avail to infants , who cannot apprehend the signification ; or he assures the benefits of the covenant , and that can be only to elect or true believers ; or that he contains them by it , and so it gives grace , ex opere operato . . the covenant of grace is , i take it the covenant of saving grace , opposite to the covenant of works , the promise of justification by faith in contradistinction to the law , gal . . this covenant was made mixtly , gen. . , , , , . purely heb. . , , . they should tell us whether they mean the one , or the other , or both . the former they seem to mean when they make baptism to succeed circumcision , and to seal the same covenant that it did . but then baptism should not be the new administration but belong to the old . and if it seal that covenant then it assures the land of canaan , and greatness in it . but it seems they mean that it seals only the promise , i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , so mr. geree here , we find in the administration of the gospel covenant to abraham and his seed . but if so , . then it seals only a part of the covenant that circumcision did , and so succeeds not in it's use , nor is there a reason given , but their own conceit , why it should seal one part , and not another . . if it seal or administer the gospel-covenant , then it administers not this promise [ that god will be a god to a believer , and his natural seed as such ] for that is neither gospel nor at all to be found , gen. . . . in that promise was foretold christ to come of abraham , and this was gospel gal. . . but this is not administred by baptism , which signifies christ already come . . in the spiritual sense it was made to abrahams seed by faith , gal. . . rom. . , . but they are only the elect ; rom. . , . and then it is an administration of that gospel covenant onely to elect persons , and true believers . . there 's ambiguity also in the term [ the gospel covenant is extended ] the gospel covenant is , the just shall live by faith , that god will be a god to abrahams seed by faith . but mr. geree imagines a gospel covenant , which is but a fiction , that god hath promised to be a god to the natural posterity of every believing gentile . . for the extent of it how it is extended is ambiguous . for he cannot say it is extended in respect of the gospel promise of righteousness and life to all the children of believers , it was not extended ishmael to and esau. therefore he acknowledgeth it to be extended in the reality of it onely to the elect , onely it is to be charitably presumed that they are elect , and therefore they are to be taken for persons in covenant till they discover the contrary . but he shews no rule of scripture for such a construction of the promise : sure such a construction was unknown to paul , rom. . , , . when he expounded that very promise , gen. . . nor doth such a construction agree with the words , sith when god saith , i will be a god to thee and thy seed , the meaning according to m. geree should then be [ i will be a god to thee , that is , every believer , and to thy seed , that is every believers natural seed which are elect in reality , and to those that are not elect in charitable presumption of the minister of baptism , till comming to years they discover the contrary ] now what a non-sence exposition is this , to expound [ thee ] meant of abraham by [ every believing gentile ] and by [ thy seed ] which is meant of abrahams seed onely either natural or spiritual by faith to understand [ every believers natural seed ] and when it is said , god will be a god to them , that he will be a god only to some in reality , which is to make god to promise what he doth not perform , and to others , that men shall think he will be a god to them , which would be too poor a matter to be meant in that expression , and therein god should not promise what he will be or do , but what men shall think , which would be false , for it is not made good , or that they may charitably so presume of them , but in this sense it is not a promise at all , but a meer permission to men to think charitably of them , which i suppose they are as well bound to do of unbelievers children till they discover the contrary , and so no privilege to the believers children . and yet this too must be limitted to a certain time till they come to years and discover the contrary , and therefore by seed must be understood onely the infant-seed , when they came to years , there 's neither promise nor permission for men to think so charitably of them . and yet herein there is nothing but abuse of terms . for charitable presumption must have some ground , which is to be from some thing we perceive done to judge well of what we see not according to the rule cor. . . charity believeth all things , but in infants acts there 's nothing that may be such a ground , but to the contrary they opposing their baptism by their crying , &c. if it be said , the promise is a ground , i answer , mr. geree confesseth the promise is not in reality but to the elect , nor to the elect till they believe , and therefore there is no ground from the promise till it be known the persons be elect or believers . but it will be said , we know nothing to the contrary . to which i reply , nor do we know any thing to the contrary , but that unbelieving jews children are elect , and in the covenant , and yet it s not charitably presumed of them , so as to count them in the covenant , and to judge them admissible to baptism . i think sith we perceive nothing of believers infants acts that may distinguish them from unbelievers , that we should rather suspend our thoughts of gods election and covenant to them till they shew of what spirit they are , which is meet for an administrator of baptism , who as a wise steward should give to every one his portion in due season , luke . . rather then have such a fond imagination of what god hath concealed . and if it be true which mr. geree saith in his vindic. vindic. p. . that many of the assembly intended the words in the directory for baptism [ the promise is made to believers and their seed ] in master gerees sense , they have reason to be ashamed that they have so much abused the world with such a toy . yea but have they not a promise on which to ground this charitable presumption ? i answer , surely the jews have a more express promise , ro. . , . for their posterity then any believer now living hath for his children , and therefore if that be all the ground of baptizing believers infants , there 's a like ground for baptizing jews infants though parents be unbelieving , and they have wrong that it is not done , where it may . but shall we make no difference between the children of believers and unbelievers ? i answer , we are to conceive with a judgement of probability for the present that they are elect , and with a quieting hope for the future that they will be believers . . because of gods general indefinite promises . . because by reason of the means of the knowledge of the gospel which they have in their education , and living where the gospel is taught , they are in a nearer possibility then others to be believers . . because experience shews that god often doth continue godliness in religious families , though it often fall out otherwise . but that such an extension of the gospel-covenant as mr. geree makes to the children of believing christians , should entitle to baptism , is without all rule . and to his syllogism , though it might be denied in respect of the form , by reason of the ambiguity of terms ; yet i answer , by denying the major in his sense , which i conceive is this , they to whom the gospel covenant is extended according to the charitable presumption of the minister without the persons shewing by any act that he is in covenant , to them the sacrament of initiation to wit baptism doth belong , and shall examine his proof both of major and minor. the major , saith he , i prove by that of peter acts . . when they had received the holy ghost , which was but an evidence of gods receiving them into the gospel covenant , peter saith , can any forbid water that these should not be baptized , who are in covenant with god as well as we ? they have the word or promise , which is the greater ; who can inhibite the sign which is the less ? to this i answer , the proof rests on this , that the allegation of peter that they had received the holy ghost , was brought for an evidence that god had received them into the gospel covenant , and so it may be said to the same purpose , who can forbid water that these should not be baptized who are in covenant with god as well as we ? but this is false . for their receiving the holy ghost is brought not to prove only that god had made his covenant of grace to them , but to prove that they were actual believers , as their works did shew upon hearing the word of faith , for saith he v. . they heard them speak with tongues and magnify god , & ch . . . if god hath given them the like gift as unto us that believe on the lord j●sus christ , who was i that i could forbid god ? and v. . it is said , when they heard these things they held their peace and glorifyed god , saying , then hath god also granted to the gentiles repentance unto life . whence it appears that they were penitent believers , and this is proved by their acts ; and therefore to be admitted to baptism , and not barely because the gospel covenant was extended to them , much less because the gospel covenant was extended to some of that sort , and to those particular persons onely upon a charitable presumption , that gods promise did belong to them for the future without any shew of repentance or faith at the present . it is false that we may say , that when by any other principle in scripture any are demonstrated to be in the gospel covenant , who can forbid water that these should not be baptized , who are in covenant with god as well as we ? for though god should reveal that this or that person were elect , and that his covenant did belong to him for the future , yet he were not to be baptized , till god revealed that he were a believer or disciple . for if so , than if god did reveal concerning any , as he did of isaac and jacob , that he were a child of the promise , though yet unborn in the mothers womb , he were to be baptized , which is absurd . none are to be baptized afore born , therefore any principle whatsoever in scripture demonstrating a person to be in the gospel covenant is not sufficient to intitle to baptism , much less such an uncertain doubtful guess , called charitable presumption , that he is in the covenant , as is without any particular declaration of scripture , or other revelation from god concerning the person , or any shew of his that he is gods child , which yet mr geree makes a sufficient warrant to baptize , nor is his reason of any force , for we might in like manner say , they have the election of god , which is the greater , who can inhibit the sign which is the less ? it is not whether that which they have is greater , much less that which is conjectured , or hoped they have , which is the rule to baptize , but the manifest having of that qualification of faith or discipleship , which is prerequired to baptism according to the institution and primitive practice of it . but mr. geree hath more to prove his major . besides , saith he , we find in the administration of the gospel covenant to abraham and his seed , whom god had thereby separated then to be his church , and evidenced it by an outward seal : there was so near a relation between the covenant and circumcision the sacrament of initiation , whereby men were externally separated from the world , that circumcision was called the covenant , and the token of the covenant , gen. . , . to shew us how the seal did follow the covenant ; and therefore when any were aggregated into the jewish church and taken into the communion of the covenant made with abraham , they were initiated into that administration of the covenant by the sacrament of circumcision . to which i answer , letting pass his phraseology , this reason goes upon these suppositions . . that by circumcision god had administred his covenant to abraham and his seed , and separated them to be his church , and evidenced it by circumcision , and that the seal did follow the covenant , when any were taken into covenant they were circumcised , and therefore it must be so in baptism but if he mean that to as many as god appointed to be circumcised he administred the covenant of grace ( which sense alone serves his turn ) it is not true . ishmael was circumcised , yet the covenant not administred to him , nor he separated to be of his church , not this evidenced by an outward seal , but the contrary declared concerning him afore his circumcision , gen. . , , , . and he in the event cast out , and so the seal did not follow so the covenant , but that it was imparted to them to whom the covenant was not made , and not imparted to them to whom it did belong , as v. g to the females , nor were the pros●lytes all taken into communion of the covenant made with abraham , though they were taken into the communion of the policy of israel : nor 〈◊〉 the calling circumcision the covenant or a token of the covenant ( which are all one ) gen. . , . prove that all that were circumcised had the covenant made to them : but this that circumcision was a memorial that such a covenant was made with abraham , and god would perform it . . that it must be in baptism as it was in circumcision . but for proof of that there 's not a word brought by mr. g. and what others bring is examined in its place . m. g. goes on thus . now for your exceptions against the connexion which we put between the gospel-covenant , and the sacrament of initiation annext to it , in any administration they will cleerly be wiped away ; for what though ( as you say ) the covenant made with abraham were not a pure gospel covenant , but had some external additaments ? yet a gospel covenant it was , and for substance the same with ours gal. . . the gospel was preached before to abraham ; and as circumcision was the seal of initiation under that administration ; so is baptism under the christian administration ; neither is the gospel covenant now so pure as to exclude all temporal promises . for godliness even under the gosspel , hath the promises of this life , and that which is to come , tim. . . answ. the distinction of a pure and a mixt covenant was brought in by me to shew that paedobaptists do but mislead people when in their writings and sermons they express themselves as if they would have men conceive that the covenant with abraham , gen. . is all one with the covenant of grace , and so that there is the same reason of baptizing infants because of the gospel covenant , as there was of circumcising infants , because of the covenant made with abraham , gen. . now how doth mr. geree wipe this away ? he tells his reader , that i say , the covenant made with abraham was not a pure gospel covenant , but had some external additaments . but neither do i so speak in my exercit. pag. . nor exam. part . . s. . nor any where else i know . i say the promises were mixt exercit. pag. . exam. part . . s. . now promises are not external additaments to the covenant , but integral parts , the covenant being nothing but a promise , or an aggregate of promises : yea i prove that the peculiar promise to abrahams natural posterity inheriting of the land of canaan , &c. is frequently called by the name of the covenant , psal. . , , , . nehem. . , &c. and for what he saith , that the covenant made with abraham was a gospel covenant ; this is true according to the more infolded and hidden sense of the spirit , but not according to the outward face and obvious construction of the words , which in the first meaning spake of things proper to abrahams natural posterity , though the holy ghost had a further aim in those expressions . and whereas , he saith , the covenant made with abraham was for substance the same with ours , gal. . . though that promise mentioned gal. . . be no in the covenant gen. . to which circumcision was annexed , but that gent . . and the term [ substance ] be ambiguous , yet i grant the covenant made with abraham according to those gospel promises , which in the hidden meaning declared justification by faith , as the new covenant sealed with christs blood doth , is the same in substance , meaning by it , the intent , purport and meaning of the holy ghost , though not in words or expressions ; yet i deny that it was every way or in every respect in substance the same . for the promise , according to that sense in which they contain domestique or civil promises proper to abrahams natural posterity were of the substance of the covenant , and for the confirming of them , circumcision was instituted of god , as well as for them in priority of order before the assuring of those evangelical benefits . and for what mr. geree saith , that the gospel is not so pure now as to exclude all temporal promises , it is true ; yet the gospel doth not promise as the covenan● gen. . the inheritance of the land of canaan with rest , plenty , prosperity and greatness therein , but on the contrary such temporal blessings as are with persecution mark . . and do rather consist in inward comfort and content than in outward enjoyment of any earthly commodity : which proves that the gospel promise for temporal things is clean different from that made to abraham gen. . concerning temporal benefits to his posterity . mr. geree addes . neither are the differences mentioned by you ( page . of your exercit. or elsewhere ) to be between circumcision and baptism any whit material to put a difference between the parties to be sealed by them in reference to our present controversy ; sith notwithstanding these differences they agree in this main general ; that the one was the sacrament of initiation to all that were to be sealed under one administration of the covenant , the other in the other , which is enough to my purpose . to which i say , the disparities between circumcision and baptism , are brought by me to invalidate the argument made by paedobaptists to prove the succession of the one , into the place , room and use of the other , from the parities between them , which allegation to that end is made good before against mr. church , sect . . those differences which i allege exercit. p. . tend to demonstrate that there is not the same reason of circumcision and baptism in signing the evangelical covenant , nor may there be an argument drawn from the administration of the one to the like administring of the other : which differences are very material to that end the different end and use of a thing , being the most apt reason for altering the application of it , as mr. rutherford , divine right of church government , ch . q. . page , , . answering era●tus , saith of the sea , cloud , mannah , water , because they had a mixt use , they were appointed to all , yet it follows not now the sacrament of the lords supper must be given to wicked men . so by the very same reason , sith circumcision had a mixt use to signify political as well as evangelical promises , to confirm the promise of christ to come , and did belong to the church , not oecumenical , but oeconomical or national , which baptism did not , therefore circumcision might belong to infants , and yet not baptism . and letting pass his phrase of administration of the covenant , of which is enough said before , though the agreement , which he calls , the main general , be yielded him ; that they are both sacraments of initiation , yet unless the same special rule of command , or example primitive be brought for the one as the other , infant-baptism cannot be proved from infant-circumcision . mr. geree further tells me . but you add further p. . of your exercit. that some were circumcised to whom no promise in the covenant made with abraham did belong ; as ishmael , of whom god had said his covenant was not to be established with him . i answer , it is said indeed gen. . . my covenant will i establish with isaac . but by covenant there is not meant that covenant , which we stand in to god , in regard of our persons , for our own personal benefit : but the covenant of special prerogative , that christ should come of , and the church should remain in his posterity . therefore notwithstanding that exception , ishmael when circumcised , might be , and was a member of the visible church in abrahams family , and in regard of his person within the external administration of the covenant with abraham , and so in the judgement of charity no alien from the covenant of grace , but under it . this i might confirm by the opinion of some hebrew doctors , wherein they are followed by many , that the petition of abraham for ishmael gen. . . was not onely for natural , but for spiritual blessings , and what he begged god granted , v. . but i clear it thus ; god establisht his covenant with abraham and isaac , not with melchisedeck nor lot ; shall we therefore expunge them out of the covenant of grace ? how absurd were that ? we only see their posterity enjoied not that privilege which god vouchsafed abraham in isaac and his seed . and therefore no more can be truly or rationally gathered from that place of genesi touching ishmael . answ. that which in my exercit. page . i gathered from the instances of ishmael , esau , the strangers and others of abrahams house their circumcision , and the non-circumcision of females , males under eight daies old , melchisedeck , lot , job , the non-admission to baptism of circumcised jews in covenant till they professed repentance and faith in christ were . that the right to evangelical promises , was not the adequate reason of circumcising these or those , but gods precept , as is exprest gen. . . gen. . . . that those terms are not convertible [ federate and to be signed ] which overthrows the chief hypotheses , upon which the paedobaptists argument from infant-circumcision for infant-baptism rests . for they all conclude thus , the reason why infants were circumcised , was that they were in covenant , therefore by like reason infants being in covenant should be baptized . now if the reason of infants being circumcised , were not their being in covenant , but only the command , then there is not a like reason for infant-baptism , though they were in the covenant , unless there were the like command . now let us see what mr. geree saith to my first i●stance of ishmael . i alleged that ishmael was circumcised , though no promise in the covenant made with abraham , did belong to him , and that abraham knew , therefore the reason of his circumcision ( and the same is the reason of others ) was not his being in covenant , but only gods command to abraham . the antecedent is proved from the words gen. . . which are exclusive . and besides i alleged rom. . , , , . gal. . , . where expresly ishmael is denied to be a child of the promise , or to be born after the promise . and i might have added heb. . . where isaac and jacob are distinguishingly reckoned as heirs of the same promise with abraham , not ishmael and esau. now what saith mr. geree to this ? he ●aith , the covenant there is not meant that covenant which we stand in to god in regard of our persons for our own personal benefit : but the covenant of special prerogative to isaac , that christ should come of , and the church should remain in his posterity . but this is false , . for it was that covenant that made isaac heir of the promise , which the apostle rom. . , , . reckons as much as to be an elect person , it was the same covenant which was mentioned v. , , , , , . which mr. geree , and other paedobaptists call the covenant of grace , and usually make the interest in it the reason of circumcision , and was sealed by it , and that it was the same covenant is apparent from v. . now then it was a covenant of personal benefit , if it derive grace to the person , or any other personal benefit . if it were only the covenant containing the special prerogative mentioned , then it was not the covenant sealed to any but isaac , not to any of the rest of abrahams house that were circumcised . . it is insufficient . for it shews not that to ishmael any promise , either evangelical or political in the covenant made with abraham , did belong , though he were circumcised , which he should have done , if he would have answered to the objection , and have vindicated his argument from it : as for his inference , therefore notwithstanding that exception , ishmael when circumcised might be , and was a member of the visible church in abrahams family and in regard of his person , within the external administration of the covenant with abraham , and so in the judgement of charity no alien from the covenant of grace , but under it . i answer . i know not what it is to be under the external administration of the covenant with abraham , except it be to be circumcised ; and therefore i count this speech , that ishmael when circumcised might be within the external administration of the covenant with abraham , to be an inept tautology , as if he had said , ishmael when circumcised might be circumcised . but were his speaking right , yet it is impertinent . for the thing he should have shewed was not , that ishmael notwithstanding that exception was a visible church-member , within the external administration of the covenant with abraham , or in the judgement of charity no alien from the covenant of grace , but that any of the promises in the covenant made with abraham gen. . did belong to him , and so that he was circumcised because of his interest in the covenant . yet how abraham could in judgement of charity judge him no alien from the covenant of grace , but under it , whom god so plainly excepted out of that covenant , which paedobaptists themselves take to be the covenant of grace , i see not . it is true that god heard the petition of abraham for ishmael gen. . . but that god granted him spiritual blessings doth not appear , but the contrary v. . where the blessings granted upon abrahams petition for him are recited . however it is clear that he did exempt him from the covenant v. . and therefore he was not circumcised by vertue of his interest in the covenant , nor did his circumcision seal that interest . as for what mr. geree saith , no more can be truly gathered from thence then what may be said of melchisedec , or lot , it is not true . for though it s not said expressely that god established his covenant with them , yet they are reckoned among the righteous ; and so in the covenant of grace . but for ishmael when abraham begged for him , god answers how far he would grant for him , and then addes adversatively . but my covenant will i establish with isaac , that is not with ishmael , which can be no other then the covenant before mentioned , v. , , , , , . which thing was further manifested by gods ratifying sarahs desire of ishmaels election gen. . , . where he is excluded from abrahams seed , from which the apostle argueth ishmael not to have been a child of the promise , nor elect , nor born after the spirit ; but reprobate , a persecutor , born after the flesh . and therefore in my exercit. i cited those texts , which mr. geree did ill to omit , sith they served for my purpose to prove that ishmael had no part in the covenant made with abraham . to the instance of esau , mr. geree tels me , the case of esau was but as that of ishmael , and others that were of israel , but were not israel : they were under the external administration of the covenant , though not really within the covenant of grace . this distinction you your self acknowledge in the fourscore and sixteenth page of your answer , when you say , it is one thing to be under the outward administration , another thing to be under the covenant of grace . it s true these are distinct , but those that are under the outward administration are to be reputed under the covenant of grace , and thence were to be sealed ; thus was it with esau ; for that sentence , the elder shall serve the younger , gen. . . could sound no higher in isaac's apprehension then that difference which was put between ishmael and isaac . to which i reply , if ishmael were not really within the covenant of grace then mr. geree yields what i proved before , that the promise of the covenant of grace did not belong to him ; and if it were so , then ishmael and esau were circumcised , though no promise in the covenant gen. . , , , , , . did belong to them , and because this was revealed to abraham and isaac they were not reputed under the covenant of grace and thence to be sealed as mr. geree saith . nor is it likely but isaac did apprehend concerning esau by the oracle gen. . . that none of the promises in the covenant made with abraham , gen. . , , , , , . did belong to him . however god appointing circumcision to these to whom he intended no interest in the covenant it follows , he made not interest in the covenant the adequate reason of each persons circumcision , but his own institution . to the instance of strangers in abrahams family , he answers ; by gods own testimony abraham would keep none in his family , but such as were outwardly conformable to the waies of god , gen. . . and so were in the state of proselytes and interessed in the gospel covenant . answ. whether abraham did or might keep any infidel in his family was considered by me in the first part of this review , s. . but for the text , gen. . . it doth not testify , that abraham would keep none in his family , but such as were outwardly conformable to gods waies , but that he would command them to keep gods waies , and shall keep the way of jehovah ; but this being spoken indefinitely is equipollent onely to a particular , as appears in ishmael and esau and others . but were this granted they were so conformable and were so proselytes and were in some sort interessed in the benefit of the gospel covenant , yet it follows not that any promise in that covenant did belong to them , much less that such interest was the reason of their being circumcised . as for mr. gs. useful observation , that circumcision was not annext to the covenant only because it was a mixt covenant , sith it was appliable to the proselyte gentiles , and their seed , that were not onely without , but uncapable of interest in the land of canaan ; i know not what use there is of it for his purpose ; it goes upon a mistake that circumcision was to be to none , but who had interest in the covenant gen. . which i have refuted . the gentile proselytes were to be circumcised because of the command , though it were not known that each , or any proselyte , or his seed , had interest in the covenant . as for mr. gs. reason of his obsevation , it should seem by it he meant otherwise than he expressed , to wit , circumcision was not annext to the covenant only because of the temporal promises , which i grant , and yet hold the covenant , gen. . , , , , . a mixt covenant , and that persons were to be circumcised to whom no promise in the covenant made with abraham did belong . mr. g. go●s on . to the other part of my exception against the connexion between the seal and covenant , as they speak , that many were not to be circumcised , to whom all or most of the promises of the covenant did belong , as the females comming from abraham , he saith . for females we answer , that god under that administration was pleased ( in reference to some things pointed at by the seal ) to appoint a sign of which women were not capable ; so were they particularly excluded from being sealed with the sacrament of initiation under that administration . to which i reply , . that women are not capable of circumcision is contradicted by those that say , that at this day in some parts of the world women are circumcised . aethiopes christiani mares octavo ab ortu die circumcidunt , & feminis etiam aliquid amputatur , ut abrahami et aliorum sanctorum patrum exemplo ardentius in similis sanctitatis studium incitentur . quarto deinde a circumcisione die mares , octavo autem foeminae salutaribus aquis expiantur , & eucharistiam ●o die infantes initiati in mica panis assumunt . osorius lib. . rerum ab emmanuele gest . zuinger . theat . vit . hum. vol. . l . tit . bapt . pag. . osiander epit. hist. eccl. cent. . l. . c. . anno christi . jacobitae baptismo & ciriumcisione utuntur circumcidentes masculos & femellas . hornbeck . append. ad disp . de bap . ve . thes . . solebant aethiopes cum baptismo etiam circumcidere baptizatum , mas an femina esset circumcidebatur . doctor field of the church . book chap. . speaking of the jacobites in syria , sixtly , they use circumcision even of both sexes , and of the habassines , they are also circumcised both male and female . the same hath heylin in his geography , describing syria and ethiopia , and before him ( if my memory deceive me not ) brerewood in his enquiry of religions . so that it is but a just of mr. blake , that women could no more be circumcised than barb'd , if these authors be of any credit . but were it true that women were not circumcised because uncapable , yet would god doubtless have appointed such a sign as they were capable of , if it were true that all that were in covenant must be signed . but if it be true which mr. g. confesseth , that the females , though in covenant were particularly excluded from being sealed with the sacrament of initiation under that administration , then the connexion between the seal initial and the covenant , is not proved from circumcision . and as for that he saies , that in reference to some things pointed at by the seal ▪ god under that administration was pleased to appoint a sign of which women were not capable ; it is a plain confession , that god appointed circumcision for an end not common to believers at all times , or to such as were in the covenant of grace , but proper to the posterity of abraham ; and therefore though the covenant were granted to be the reason of circumcision , yet it follows not all must be baptized barely from the covenant of grace , because they were circumcised by reason of interest in it , sith this was not true , and as mr. geree confesseth , circumcision was appointed in reference to some things proper to that time . but he hopes to salve the matter thus : so , actually they were not circumcised , yet were they reputed as circumcised , as appears both by the place alleged by mr. m. exod. . . and where the house of israel is said to be circumcised , and also by that of samsons parents , being displeased that he should take a wife of the uncircumcised philistines judges . . for unless the israelitish women were reputedly circumcised in the males , circumcision could make no difference between wife and wife ; yea our saviour should be born of the uncircumcised . to which i answer : to be reputed as circumcised , may be understood thus , they were mentioned as circumcised , and this sense is false ; for then it should be an errour , sith they were not circumcised : nor is in the text exod. . . any thing to that purpose ; for the speech , no uncircumcised person shall eat the passeover , is to be limitted by the matter , of them that ought to be circumcised , and that judge . . of taking a wife of or from the philistines uncircumcised , as if thereby were intimated that an israelitess woman was reputed as circumcised , or that our saviour should be born of the uncircumcised , if women were not reputed as uncircumcised , proves it not . for the terms [ ciecumcised and uncircumcised ] are spoken of the people , who are said to be circumcised from the chief part , not from all parts . i remember not where the whole house of israel is said to be circumcised , but to be uncircumcised in heart , jeremy . . yet were there such a place , it must be understood of all that were to be circumcised . or else the meaning is , they were reputed as circumcised , that is , they were admitted to the passeover if their males were circumcised , notwithstanding they were not in their proper persons circumcised , which sense is true . but then it serves not the turn to avoid the force of the instance brought to shew there is not a necessary connexion between interest in the covenant , and the persons right to the initial seal , in his own person , which mr. g : must prove to make good his major . for he would have infant-females actually baptized , because in covenant ; and his proof is , they that were in covenant were circumcised , which must be meant of all in covenant , and of actual circumcision in their own persons , or else it can prove but a particular of some , and their virtual baptism , to wit , female infants . but mr. g. thinks to prevent this objection . and whereas you object , that you may as well say , that children are virtually baptized in their parents , i deny it , because you have not the like proof for the one , as we have for the other . besides women that are said to be virtually and reputatively circumcised in the males , were not actually to be circumcised at all : they were excluded , which you do not , nor cannot say of infants ; when they are grown up you confess they may and ought to be baptized . answ. that which i said , was only by way of inference upon paedobaptists suppositions ; if virtual circumcision were all that might be claimed by virtue of the covenant it would not help paedobaptists who would from the covenant prove a right of actual circumcision to infants , whereas by their own confession it onely proves necessarily a virtual ; and if so , how can it prove necessarily by their own principles any more than a virtual baptizing of infants ? the same medium that doth not prove as necessary actual circumcision in the one , cannot prove as necessary actual baptism in the other . now the force of this objection is not at all weakned by his reply . for my words were not concerning the fitness of the expression , that the one was as fit as the other , but that i might grant a virtual baptism to infants without detriment to my cause , if they assert no more from the covenant , but a virtual circumcision . but had i said [ you may as well say ] ( which yet i find not in my writings , but , we might grant , we may say examen page . by like , perhaps greater reason it may be said exercit. p. . ) the speech might have been right notwithstanding mr. gerees exceptions , for there is no more proof for the use of this speech , that females may be said to be virtually circumcised in the males , then for this , infants may be said to be virtually baptized in their parents , neither being used in scripture , and reason being as much for the one as the other . and though those that were infants when grown , being believers , are to be baptized , yet infants during their infancy are by more full evidence excluded from actual baptism , then females were from actual circumcision . mr. g. proceeds thus . for your second instance of infants dying afore they were eight daies old ; i answer that they were particularly tyed to that day , whether for the theological reason levit. . , . or for the physical reason , that god would not suffer an incision to be made on the flesh of a tender infant ; or till the seventh , that is ▪ the critical day was over ; or whether to typifie the resurrection , we cannot determine ; but till that day they were expresly excluded ; yet therefore it remains clear that all that were within that administration of the covenant , that were not expresly excluded , were circumcised , which is enough for my purpose . and so unless you can bring a rule that no infant of christians shall have the sacrament of initiation till years or so , that instance of infants not being circumcised dying before the . day , is too short to reach up . answ. it is not enough for mr. gs. purpose , which was to prove , the seal did follow the covenant , and when any were aggregated into the jewish church and taken into the communion of the covenant made with abraham they were initiated into that administration of the covenant by the sacrament of circumcision , unless he can prove that all that were in covenant , and in the jewish church were circumcised . but his own grant , that some in the covenant , and jewish church , as females and males under eight daies old , were expresly excluded , overthrows his own position , and is enough for my purpose to prove , that all in the covenant were not circumcised . the reason why males afore the eighth day were not circumcised , whatever it were , is nothing for mr. gs. advantage , but against him , sith it doth more fully shew that god would not have them circumcised . nor need i bring a rule that no infant of christians shall have the sacrament of initiation till eighteen years , or so , which goes upon his mistake , as if the instance i gave were as a proof of the time of baptism , it being brought only to shew a reason of my denial of his assertion , that the seal did follow the covenant . it is enough for me , that i prove ( as i have done in the second part of the review s. . &c. ) that the rule is , that persons are not to be baptized till they be disciples or believers , and that infants are not such . mr. g. addes . your third instances are of adam , abel , noah page . of your answer , and melchisedec , lot , job , pag. . exercit. i answer either those were before the administration begun with abraham , and so before the institution of seals , or such of them that were with or after him , either they join not themselves to that administration , and so were not to be sealed no more then the proselytes of the gate , or if they did unite to the church in abrahams family , then it is apparent they might lay claim to circumcision , as other proselytes did . and so indeed it is averred of iob , that he was circumcised , by the author of the book of true circumcision ▪ which is ascrrbed to hierom , cited by iunius in his animadversion on bellarmine , controv. . l. . cap. . not. . answ. master geree doth make shew of answering my allegation , but doth indeed confirm my proof , that sith abel , noah , melchisedec , lot , and many proselytes of the gate were in the covenant of grace , yet had not any initial sign or seal , as m. geree calls it , to seal the covenant , and some sealed after an initial seal was instituted though in the covenant of grace , therefore there is not such a connexion between the covenant , and the initial seal , that therefore a man must have the seal initial because he is in the covenant of grace , and that it was not from interest in the covenant of grace , that persons were circumcised , but gods special command upon such reasons as seemed best to him , but is not a reason for us to imitate in another ordinance without the like command . if one author conceive iob was circumcised , many do conceive otherwise , and there are more probable reasons he was not ; sith there 's no mention of his circumcision , or his observing any of the rites of the law , or of any acquaintance he had with israel , or any thing else that might induce us to believe he had communion with the policy of israel . master geree saith further ; and wheras you say , lastly , that the jews comprehended in covenant and circumcised could not be baptized without faith and repentance . i answer , the reason is evident ; because baptism was a seal of a new administration ; and therefore they must join to that administration of the covenant as well as be in covenant , before they could be baptized . answ. i am beholding to mr. geree , who as before had given the reason why melchisedeck , lot , iob , were not circumcised , though in covenant because of their not joining themselves to that administration , or their not uniting to the church in abrahams family : so here again he doth not only grant what i allege , but gives a reason of it also , and such as quite overthrows his dispute . for if it were true that the jews that were in covenant were not to be ●aptiz●d without faith and repentance , then being in covenant is not a sufficient reason of an infants being baptized without faith and repentance , and if baptism were a seal of a new administration , then it must have a new rule , and so the old rule of circumcision is no direction to us about baptism , if lot , the proselytes of the gate , though in covenant , were not to be circumcised without joining to that administration , or the church in abrahams family , then right to circumcision was not from interest in the covenant common to all believers , but something proper to that church-state , or administration , which is now voided : if therefore the jews in covenant and circumcised must profess repentance and faith afore they were baptized , because they must join to the new administration of the covenant , then according to mr. gerees own confession , according to the new administration of the covenant , faith and repentance are required of them that join to that administration of the covenant . and therefore whereas mr. geree addes , we may therefore conclude , that those that are under the gospel-covenant in any administration of it , have right to the seal of initiation under that administration ; unless they be particularly excluded by god himself , and so the major is firmly proved ; i may truly say , it is firmly proved that they that are under the gospel-covenant in any administration of it , yet have not right to the seal of initiation under that administration , barely from the covenant without a command , and that god himself hath excluded infants from baptism by mr. gerees own concession , without faith and repentance , and that in all this arguing mr. g. hath dictated much and proved nothing . let 's see whether he speed better about proving the minor. sect . xvi . that the gospel-covenant is not extended to infants of believers , as such . now the minor , saith he , that children are under the gospel-covenant in the christian administration of it , that we prove by the scriptures mentioned , as first , gen. . . i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant to be a god unto thee and thy seed after thee . to comprehend the meaning of this place we are to consider . what the privilege is that is here promised : . what the extent of it is . first for the privilege it self , as calvin hath well observed by vertue of this promise , the church was settled in abrahams family , and it was separated from the rest of the world , as light from darkness . and the people of israel ( abrahams posterity ) was the house and sheepfold of god ; and other nations like wild beasts ranging about without in the wilderness of the world. and by this privilege the dignity of adoption-belonged to all the israelites in common , rom. . . to whom pertaineth the adoption . and so , though by nature they were no better than others ; yet by reason of this promise they had a birth-privilege , whereby they were separated from others , which is apparently held forth , gal. . . we who are jews by nature , not sinners of the gentiles ; as mr. blake hath truly observed ; and sith you grant the jews a birth-privilege , as p. . and p. . of your answer , you needed not have quarrelled with this plain proof . but now among those that had this outward privilege of common adoption ( to be reputed children when the gentiles were reputed as dogs , matth. . . ) there were some that were separated by the secret election of god , and really made partakers of sanctifying and saving grace , and so not only adopted outwardly , and reputatively , but also really ; in comparison of whom the other israelites are sometimes spoken of , as no sons of abraham , rom. . , . though externally they were the children of the kingdom , and in reference to the gentiles they are so stiled , matthew . , . so then the privilege is , that he would be a god to all in regard of external denomination , and external privileges of a church , and to the elect in regard of spiritual adoption , grace and glory . answ. it is true , i granted page . of my examen , that the jews had a birth-privilege ; yet denyed it to be from the covenant of grace according to the substance of it , as mr. m. speaks , but that special love god bare to abrahams posterity . nor do i deny that the people of israel , till broken off , were in common estimation gods children , children of the kingdom , nor dogs , nor unclean as the gentiles , and that these titles did belong to all by external denomination , really to the elect . nor do i much gainsay that by vertue of the promise , i will be a god to the seed of abraham , the church was settled in abrahams family , though it doth not appear to me that the apostle did so expound this promise , but expresly contradistinguisheth the children of the promise , to the children of the flesh , rom. . . and his doctrine there is plain , that the elect are they only to whom the promise , i will be the god of thy seed , gen. . . was made : yea exercit. page , . i expound the promise , as in respect of some peculiar blessings , belonging to abrahams natural seed . nor did i quarrel with mr. blake for proving from gal. , . a birth-privilege belonging to the jews , but excepted against him for that he contended to have the seed of believing gentile-parents under the gospel to be under the first member of the division in the text , to wit , jews by nature : which exception i have made good in my postscript to my apology s. . which i intend to vindicate from master blakes reply , vindic. foed . cha . . in that which followes . but then what doth this advantage to prove mr. gs. minor. to children ( meaning all or else his conclusion can be but particular ) of believing christians the gospel-covenant is extended in the christian churches ? is this the gospel-covenant to make a people only reputatively and outwardly , but not really adopted : is this that which circumcision did seal ? is this the covenant of grace which the seal is to follow ? what kind of juggling is there with these men ? they contend the covenant gen. . . to be the same with the covenant of grace for substance , and that they make to consist in saving graces , the temporal benefits they refer to the administration that then was , they will not have it called a mixt covenant , and this covenant of grace they will have to be sealed by circumcision out of rom. . . and they say this was made to believers and their seed , and thence they have salvation if they die in infancy , and without this there is no ground of hope of the salvation of any infant deceased ; and they argue they are to have the seal , because they are in covenant , which if they understand not of that covenant , of which that ordinance is the seal , what colour is there to derive thence a title unto that seal on them who have interest in another covenant , which it doth not seal ? their argument is , he hath right to the conveyance , who hath right to the land : but these men who dare not assert that the covenant of saving grace belongs to all believers natural children , yet will have them all to have right to baptism which seals saving graces , though perhaps a very few , and those all unknown persons have right to that covenant , onely because a promise of outward and reputative adoption , though not saving graces belongs to all . besides what ground hath mr. g. to call this promise the gospel-covenant ? rom. . , . gal. . , , &c. the gospel-covenant is , the just shall live by faith : it is that which contains promise of sanctification , remission of sins , &c. hebrews , ▪ , , . & . , . matthew . . the everlasting covenant that hath the sure mercies of david , isaiah . . acts . , , . hebrews . . and of which jesus is the surety or mediator , hebrews . . & . . what a mockage then is this of people to tell them the covenant of grace is made to their children , and the cospel-covenant is extended to them : and that god hath promised to be their god ▪ and that they are confederate with their parents , and yet in fine all that they dare assert is , god hath promised to the seed of believers an external , reputative adoption , though not real : such chaff they catch their auditors with . but is this promise that god will settle his church in abrahams family , and separate them from the rest of the world , as light from darkness , as mr. g. expresly makes it , indeed the gospel-covenant ? i dare freely say , it is jewish , anti-evangelical , directly opposite to the gospel-covenant . for the gospel-covenant is , that god would bless all nations in abraham through faith , gal. . , . gentiles as well as jews , yea the gentile-believers instead of the jews broken off by unbelief . if then this be the gospel covenant , i will be the god of thy seed ; that is , in mr. gs. sense , i will separate abrahams family from the rest of the world to be my church , then the church under the gospel covenant is not catholick contrary to the article of the creed , and so the gospel-covenant continues the middle wall of partition . but perhaps master geree , helps the matter in that which followeth . for the second thing , saith he , the extent of this privilege ( though there were something in it peculiar to abraham ) yet was it not limitted to him alone , but those that were of abraham inherited his promise to have god their god , and the god of their seed . as what was said to joshua , josh. . i will not leave thee nor forsake thee , was not bounded to his person , but applicable to all conscientious israelites ; yea to all christians in gods way and work , as the apostle applieth it heb. . . so this privilege or the covenant to have god the god of their seed , is to be applyed to all israelites , yea to all of any nation that have his faith and tread in his steps : they that do the work of abraham may claim the promises of abraham , that be ordinary and essential parts of the covenant . answ. mr. g. will have the promise [ i will be a god to thy seed ] to promise the settling of the church in abrahams family separated from the rest of the world as light from darkness ; if this be so , how can it be a promise to another nation , that their children should be adopted outwardly and reputatively ? for ▪ if by this promise abrahams natural posterity have a privilege whereby they are sethis promise is common to other nations with them . but saith he , the promise parated from all other nations , surely it s no better than a contradiction to say to joshua , iosh. . . was not bounded to his person , heb. . . which i grant ; nor do i doubt , but promises made to abraham , david , joshua , &c do belong to all true believers , where the holy ghost doth so expound them , and where the promise is of a thing which other scriptures do clear to belong to them . but there is no such thing in the promise of gen. . . master geree brings nothing but his own assertion to prove it , nor do i know any thing brought by any else , but what the author of the little book , intitled , infants baptism proved lawful by scripture , printed anno . hath , who thus argued , that which was promised to abraham , as a believer , is promised to every believer . but god promised to be a god to abraham , and his seed as a believer : ergo : to which i answered , if [ as ] be taken reduplicatively so as that the meaning be under that formal consideration , to him being a believer , and to every one being a believer , as to him , i deny the major ; it was not made to him as a believer , simply under that consideration , but though it were made upon his faith , as a motive of making that covenant with him , yet not under that formal consideration simply as a believer , so as that the covenant should be said to be made to every believer , as to him . as in like manner , though peter matthew had the promise of building the church , and the keys of the kingdom of heaven , and of binding and loosing , conferred on him by reason of his confession of christ , verse , yet every one that confesseth christ as he did , hath not that that promise : if any ask how it was made to abraham ? i answer , so far as concerns the spiritual part , it is cleer from romans , that it was made to him as father of believers , and in that construction , though it belong to gentiles , yet it belongs onely to believing elect gentiles , romans galatians , or to christ , whether personal or mystical , verse . but that it belongs not in that sense , no not to all or any , either of jews or gentiles , who are not elect , is apparent from romans , no meer formal professor can lay claim to it . as for the promise of outward privileges , as to be of the visible church , to have the ordinances of gods worship , so the promise is made to abraham as a natural father of his inheriting posterity by isaac , and to that seed by isaac which was to inherit in abrahams family : and to that natural seed which god would bring out of egypt , and settle in canaan , and this was but unto the time of reformation , as it is termed , heb. chap. . vers . . now that those words , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , should be expounded thus , i will be the god of every gentile believer , either in profession or reality , that his natural posterity should be gods visible church , or visible church-members , hath not the least intimation in scripture , but much against it , nor can be brought by any shew of right construction to be the meaning . for i would know under which term of these [ thee , or thy seed ] every such natural childe , even an infant shauld be meant ; under [ thy seed ] they must say , but the scripture placeth believers themselves , and those only reall believers under that term , as is proved before , and other places speak to like purpose , john . . matth. . . luke . . therefore without addition to the text , believers natural seed are not there placed . nor were the promise true in mr. gerees sense . for god doth not make good the promise in that sense to every believer and his natural seed , many gentile believers have had their children persecutors , not visible church-members , and may have still ; yea in that sense which mr. geree himself expounds it , it was only verified of the natural posterity of abraham , yet not of every particular child of his , but of the nation till christs comming . as for the dictate of mr. g. they that do the works of abraham , may claim the promises of abraham , that be ordinary and essential parts of the covenant , it intimates some promises of the covenant to be essential , some not , some ordinary , some extraordinary parts of the covenant . but these are new distinctions , with which i meet not elsewhere , nor know i how to understand what promises he makes ordinary , nor what extraordinary , what essential parts of the covenant , what not . that covenant being but once made in my conceit , therefore had all the promises of the same sort , whether ordinary or extraordinary , and a covenant being an aggregate of promises , contains the promises as the matter , and the making together as the form , which are the essential parts of the covenant , there 's no promise but being the matter of the covenant is an essential part , or rather all the promises together are the matter , and each promise is an integral part of the whole number of promises . and therfore his speech is not easie to be understood . i grant that they who are of the faith of abraham , may claim the promise of justification , and other saving blessings . but for visible church-membership of natural posterity , or other domestique promises made to abraham , neither the natural posterity of abraham , nor the truest believing gentile , can lay a just claim to them , but that notwithstanding that promise , god is free to make their children or the children of gentile , or jew infidels his people , his visible church , and to settle his worship with them . mr. geree writes thus , and that this privilege of having god to be the god of our seed , was not personal , and peculiar to abraham , but propagated to his seed , may hence appear , because the same in effect is promised to other godly jews , which is here promised to abraham , deut. . . and the lord thy god will circumcise thy heart , and the heart of thy seed . answ. the promise to abraham , according to mr. gs. exposition , was , that he would be a god to all in regard of external denomination , and external privilege of a church , and to the elect in regard of spiritual adoption grace and glory . sure this is not the same in effect with that , deut. . . which is nothing of external privileges of a church , but of circumcising their hearts , and the heart of their seed , to love the lord their god with all their heart , and with all their soul , that they might live : which can be true only of the elect . besides , it is promised to them at their return from captivity , and upon their returning to the lord , and obeying his voice according to all that he commanded them that day , they and their children , with all their heart , and all their soul , v. . which sure cannot be ordinarily applied to them in their infancy , and therefore this text is very impertinently alleged to prove an external privilege to infants of meer reputed believers , even in their infancy . mr. baxter himself in his friendly accommodation with mr. bedford p. . hath these words . the text seems plainly to speak of [ their seed ] not in their infant-state , but in their adult , deut. . for first , verse . the condition of the promise is expresly required , not only of the parent , but of the children themselves by name . . and that condition is the personal performance of the same acts , which are required of the parents , viz. to return to the lord , and obey his voice with all their heart and soul. . the circumcision of the heart promised , is so annexed to the act , that it appeareth to be meant only of those that were capable of the act , ver . . the lord thy god will circumcise thine heart , and the heart of thy seed , to love the lord thy god ; so that it is not meant of those that are uncapable of so loving . mr. g. yet adds . and thus much that place , act. . . doth hold forth and contribute to infant-baptism , to shew that children are comprehended in the covenant with their fathers , and both these last promises being of evangelical privileges they must needs be communicable to all under the gospel-covenant ; so then it remains that god still is in covenant with every believer , and his seed . answ. that acts . . neither shews that children ( of believers ) are comprehended ( universally and necessarily ) with their parents , nor contributes ought to infant-baptism , is shewed in the forepart of this review s. . and notwithstanding any thing said by mr. geree it yet remains to be proved , that god is in covenant with every believer and his seed . the rest of that section of mr. geree , is about my expounding mr. ms. second conclusion , which i shall review as far as is meet when i come to it . i have dispatched at last the answering those that argue syllogistically from the covenant , and seal for infant-baptism . but most go another way by laying down conclusions , and framing hypotheses , and i proceed to take a view of their writings . sect . xvii . mr. cottons , the assemblies , and london ministers way of arguing for infant-baptism from the covenant and circumcision , is recited , and the methode of the future progress in the review , expressed . mr. john cotton in his dialogue , ch . . goes this way , and expresseth himself in four things , that . god made a covenant of grace with abraham , and his seed , gen. . . . gave him a commandment to receive the sign of circumcision the seal of the covenant of grace , to him and his seed , gen. ● . , . . the lord hath given that covenant of grace which was then to abraham and his seed , now to believers and our seed . . and hath given us baptism in the room of circumcision . the assembly at westminster in their confession of faith , chap . art . . assert , that the visible church consists of all the children of those that profess the true religion , and cite to prove it , cor. . . acts . . ezekiel . , . rom. . . gen. . . and . . of these , one of the texts , to wit , gen. . . i meet not with in the writings of the defenders of infant-baptism , to my remembrance , except once in mr. baxter to prove a conditional covenant made with all adams posterity . i do not imagine what use that text is of to prove infants of those that profess the true religion to be visible church-members . whether the seed of the woman be meant of all men , or by excellency of christ , or of true believers ( which are all the senses i conceive ) yet how from any of these should be gathered that infants of professours of the true religion , as such , and not as of humane kinde , should be meant by the seed of the woman , or that the bruising of the serpents head should prove , infants of them that profess the true religion to be visible church-members is a riddle , which i cannot yet resolve . ch. . art . . they say , infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , and in the margin cite , gen. . . . with gal. . . . col. . , . & a●ts . . . & rom. . , . cor. . . mat. . . mark . , , , . luke . . what they would gather from these texts may be ghessed from the directory about baptism , where they direct the minister to teach the people , that baptism is a seal of the covenant of grace , of our ingrafting into christ , &c. that the promise is made to believers and their seed , and that the seed and posterity of the faithful , born within the church , have by their birth-interest in the covenant , and right to the seal of it , and to the outward privileges of the church under the gospel , no less then the children of abraham in the time of the old testament , the covenant of grace for substance being the same , and the grace of god , and consolation of believers more plentiful then before , that the son of god admitted little children into his presence , embracing them , and blessing them , saying , for of such is the kingdom of god ; that children by baptism , are solemnly received into the bosome of the visible church , that they are christians , and federally holy before baptism , and therefore are they baptized . most of which propositions are ambiguous , few of them true , or have any proof from the texts alleged in the confession ; and if they were all true ( setting aside one or two which express the conclusion in a different phrase ) they would not infer the conclusion . the first proposition is ambiguous , it being doubtful in what sense baptism is said to be a seal of the covenant of grace , whether in a borrowed or proper sense , so as it be the definition or genus of it , or onely an adjunct of it , or whether it seal the making of the covenant , or the performing of it , or the thing covenanted , what they mean by the covenant of grace , which is that covenant ; whether it seal all or a part of it , whether it seal gods covenanting to us , or our covenanting to god. nor is there any proof for it from rom. . . which neither speaks of baptism , nor of any ones circumcision but abrahams , nor saith of his circumcision , that it was the seal of the covenant of grace , as they , it is likely , mean. the next proposition is so ambiguous , that mr. m. and mr. g. are driven to devise senses which the words will not bear to make it true , as i shew in my apology , s. . the words seem to bear this sense , that the promise of justification , adoption , &c. is made to believers and their seed . but so it is apparently false , contradicted by the apostle rom. . , . and by other texts , nor is it proved from gen. . . compared with gal. . . . acts . . or any other of their texts , yea in that sense it is disclaimed by master marshall , and master geree . the next is ambiguous also . for how the seed of the faithful may be said to be born within the church , or what interest in the covenant , and right to the seal of it , and what outward privileges they have by their birth , or what outward privileges they have in like measure as the children of abraham , is as uncertain as the rest , and how any of the texts prove it , is uncertain . surely gal. . . . speaks only of the privileges of justification and sanctification , which abrahams children by faith , and no other , not every believers posterity or natural seed have , nor is there a word gen. . . of any privilege to our natural seed as such . the next too is doubtful , it being uncertain what they mean by the substance of the covenant , what they make accidental in it , and what substantial ; nor is it easie to conceive what they mean when they say , the grace of god and consolation of believers is more plentiful then before , or how any of the texts prove it , or what this is to their purpose , that the enlargement of a believers comfort intitles his child to baptism , nor what is meant when it is said , that children by baptism are received into the bosom of the visible church , and yet after withheld from the lords supper without any ecclesiastical censure , nor do i know how they mean or prove them to be christians , or federally holy afore baptism . for my part , in those propositions i deprehend little truth or plain sense ; but that the directory in that part is a meer riddle , fitter for schollars to study than for teaching of the people . the london ministers ( of whom it is likely a considerable part were of the assembly ) in their jus divinum regim . eccl. page . speak thus . so infants of christian parents under the new testament are commanded to be baptized by consequence , for that the infants of gods people in the old testament were commanded to be circumcised , gen. . for the privileges of believers under the new testament , are as large as the privileges of believers under the old testament , and the children of believers under the new testament are federally holy , and within the covenant of god as well as the children of believers under the old testament , gen. . compared with rom. . . cor. . . and what objections can be made from infants incapacity now against their baptism , might as well then have been made against their being circumcised . and why children should once be admitted to the like initiating sacrament ( the lord of the covenant , and sacrament no where forbidding them ) there can be no just ground . and baptism succeeds in the room of circumcision , col. . , . concerning which i say , there 's no proof from gen. . compared with rom. . . cor. . . to prove the children of believers federaly holy as they would , nor is there any proof from col. . , . to prove the succession of baptism in the room of circumcision . and though infants have not a natural incapacity to be dipped in water , yet they have a natural incapacity to profess faith in christ , which is now required to baptism though not required to circumcision . and there is an objection that may be made against infant-baptism , to wit , the want of a command , which could not be objected against infant male circumcision : and this is a just ground to exclude infants from baptism , yea the very same ground they give for excluding them the communion , and the very same ground which paedobaptists do continually , in books and sermons urge against popish and prelatical ceremonies . but forasmuch as mr. m. did direct his defence of infant-baptism to the assembly , and mr. pryn in his suspension suspended , p. . seems to have taken his book to be approved by the assembly , and he is of any i meet with in print likeliest to have produced their strength , and for other reasons , therefore i conceive my self bound to examine his defence in the third part of it , referring the reader to what of that or any other is already dispatched , taking in somewhat of master blakes , and some others by the way , and then to examine such parts of mr. cobbets iust vindication , as are not yet examined so far as i find necessary , and at last examine so much of mr. bs. dispute about his second argument as is not yet dispatched . sect . xviii . mr. marshalls reply to the first section of the third part of my examen about the connexion between the covenant , and seal , is reviewed . mr. m. in his sermon page . thus disputed , my first argument is this ; the infants of believing parents are foederati , therefore they must be signati . they are within the covenant of grace ; therefore are to partake of the seal of the covenant . to this i answered by denying both the antecedent and the consequence : and first i disputed against the consequence , exam. part . . s. . mr. m. in his reply would have the reader to consider my advantage from the much silence in the scripture to make my work have a specious probability , that the like specious plea might be made against the justification of infants , especially if his dispute should be carried as mine is , altogether in the way of making exceptions against arguments , but not positively affirming any thing . thus what others have counted my vertue , and have commended , beyond what it is fit for me to express , mr. m. unjustly seeks to draw into suspition , as if there were sophistry and guile in it , as he did in other things , as i shew in my apology . but me thinks a considerate reader should take this to be the course of a diffident man. if there be much silence in scripture about infants , why do mr. m. and others avouch their baptism ; with so much peremptoriness . if their justification could be no better proved then their baptism , it would be no article of my faith . my disputation is carried in that way which is used by disputants that examine writings scholastically , wherein it is defective mr. m. should shew . that i made exceptions against arguments was agreeable to my work , being to answer as mr. m. was to prove : no man is to expect regularly any more of a respondent . yet that i positively affirm nothing is an untruth with a witness : yea in many points where it was not necessary i positively set down my tenet and my proofs , and answer objections to the contrary . the resolving questions about baptism how it should be , could not reasonably be expected in my examen . . mr. m. takes on him to prove his consequence by mine own principles , to wit , that i yield that such as are regenerate , sanctified , &c. may be baptized , which he saith is in plain english , that such as are covenanters ought not to be denyed the initial seal of the covenant . but i do not think the speeches the same , either in plain english , or mr. ms. own english , or mine . not in plain english. in plain english a covenanter is one that makes a promise . is a scottish covenanter any other then one that makes a promise or subscribes to the covenant ? but a person regenerate or sanctified may make no promise , nor do i think when mr. m. calls infants federate , or in the covenant of grace , he means they make a promise , but that a promise is made to them . nor in mr. ms. own english. for when he saith , they are in covenant , he means , infants are in some sense under the covenant of grace in respect of the outward administration and church privileges , which is not all one as to be regenerate , sanctifyed , &c. nor in my english. for the being in covenant which i grant , gives a title to baptism , is meant of their present state , so as that not only the promise is made to them , what god will do for them afterwards , but for the present they are actually sanctified , regenerate , believers , disciples , as mine own words , cited by mr. m. shew ; so that mr. m. doth but abuse me , and the reader , endeavouring to possesse him with this conceit , as if his consequence were proved by mine own principles . but master marshall not trusting to this , answers , more particularly : . i grant with you that there is no necessary dependance between a promise and a seal , the addition of a seal to a promise is of free grace as well as the promise it self . which if true , then there 's no necessary connexion between the covenant and seal , and so this proposition is not true . all that have the promise are to be sealed . for if it be true it is in some degree of necessity , to wit , de omni . as for his reason , it is frivolous ; there is no necessary dependance , because both are of free grace . for those things that are of free grace have a necessary dependence as , to be predestinate , called , justified , glorifyed . but he means , the nature of the terms makes not a necessary connexion between them . if that be his meaning , mr. baillee his collegue is deserted , who would infer a necessary connexion from the nature of the terms , which i have refuted in my addition to my apology , s. . but mr. m. addes . nor . did i ever think , that by gods revealed will this proposition was true in all ages of the church . all covenanters must be sealed , i carried it no higher than abrahams time , when god first added this new mercy to his church , vouchsafing a seal to the covenant . answ. if this be true , then there is nothing moral and perpetual in seals , as they call them , of the covenant . for such thing are from the beginning , and belong to gentiles as well as jews , and therefore it is in vain to derive infants sealing barely from the covenant of grace . for sith that , as mr. ms. first conclusion speaks , for substance hath alwaies been one , and the same both to the jews and gentiles , if there were a connexion between it , and the seal it should have been as well before abrahams time as since . but he thinks in his third answer to make good the connexion , when he saith , and . from abrahams time , and so forward i say it was gods will , that such as are in covenant should be sealed with the initial seal of the covenant , supposing them only capable of the seal , and no special bar put in against them by god himself . to which i answer . he saith after , if you please to state the general proposition as you needs must , that all who since abrahams time are foederati , or covenanters with god , must by gods own appointment receive the seal of admission into covenant , unless they be either uncapable of it , or are exempted by a particular dispensation . so that one of these two propositions is that which makes up his enthymeme an entire syllogism , and his syllogism must stand in one or other of these forms . from abrahams time all such as are in covenant should be sealed with the initial seal of the covenant , supposing them onely capable of the seal , and no special bar put in against them by god himself . but all the infants of believing parents are in covenant , and they are capable of the seal , and there is no special bar put in against them by god himself . ergo , they should be sealed . or thus ; all who since abrahams time are foederati , or covenanters with god , must , by gods own appointment receive the seal of admission into covenant , unless they be either uncapable of it , or are exempted by a particular dispensation . all infants of believers since abrahams time , are foederati or covenanters with god , neither uncapable of the seal , nor exempted by a particular dispensation : ergo , all infants of believers since abrahams time , must , by gods own appointment , receive the seal of admission into covenant . to which i answer , mr. m. tells me , i must needs state thus the general proposition . but it is a pretty art he hath , as elsewhere to call that my minor which was his own not mine ; so here to say , i must needs state the general proposition thus , which is of his own framing . however , he is not wronged , that it is thus framed . let us then view it , and try whether ( except in that of circumcision ) there be any truth , sense or consideratenesse in it . as for circumcision , if it be meant onely of it , then the conclusion can be of it only , and as the truth is , his argument concludes only that infants of believers are to be circumcised . . i had in my examen noted a fault in his argument in his sermon , in that his conclusion was of a sign of the covenant indefinite , and not of baptism only , whereas the lords supper is also a sign of the covenant , which he would not have delivered to infants . and to it he answers , that he clearly in his sermon shewed this proposition to be only meant of the initial sign , and not of the other . but this doth not excuse his fault , who taking upon him to prove infant-baptism , concludes another thing in the argument , though he might perhaps , some pages of , where the reader looks not for an explication of his argument , limit his speech to the initial seal . and for what he tells me , he is sure that i who durst baptize an infant known to me to be regenerate , durst not give the other sacrament to it , there being self examination and ability to discern the lords body prerequired to the one , not to the other ; i told him in my apology s. . i durst do the one as i durst do the other , and that self examination and ability to discern the lords body is as well required to baptism , as the lords supper , acts . . & . . rom. . , . but were it , that i durst not do the one as the other , yet this would not help mr. m. who would prove the title to the initial seal , by that proof of interest in the covenant , which will conclude as well title to the after , as the initial seal . for the proof is usually the seal must follow the covenant ; which if true , then not only the initial , but also the after-seal must follow it . but waving this , is the fault mended in his defence ? doth he conclude definitely of baptism here ? nay notwithstanding he was warned , yet chorda semper oberrat eadem , he still runs into the same fault , concluding in both forms of an initial seal indefinitely , not definitely of baptism , and therefore may be interpreted to conclude of circumcision as well as of baptism , yea rather his assertion ( if there be any good sense of it ) is of the circumcising then baptizing of infants , sith all his proof is about the initial sign of circumcision , and the limitations he puts into the major are , that it may be true of circumcision . but this is not all the fault in his new forms : notwithstanding i complained in my examen sect . . of his ambiguities , which i shewed in my apology s. , . and postscript s. . yet as if either he could not , or would not , speak distinctly , he retains the same fault in his defence . whereas i conceive the covenant of grace now contains only the promise of saving grace , he saith p . the covenant of grace contains not onely saving grace , but the administration of it also in outward ordinances and church privileges ; but shews not where , nor in which covenant of grace there are promises of the administration of saving grace in outward ordinances and church privileges . it is true , circumcision is called the covenant , gen. . . by a metonymia as mr. m. confesseth page but not because it was contained in the covenant : it is not metonymia continentis pro contento , but signati pro signo : now that the sign should be said to be contained in the covenant , is scarse good sense ; sure it is not meet to be used in disputes . and therefore whoever useth the covenant of grace for any other than the covenant of saving grace , or saith it contains any other than promises of saving grace , seems to affect ambiguities unmeet for dispute , as not willing to be understood . again page . he expresseth the covenant of grace he means to be that gen. . . and he cannot but know it to have diverse meanings ; one that god will be a god to abraham , and his spiritual seed , which he confesseth pag. . to be the elect , when he saith , secondly by the word [ seed ] was meant the children of the promise the elect , rom. . . and in this sense it is denyed by him , that god hath made a promise of saving grace to the natural seed of believers , and so they are not in this covenant in this sense . yet the directory when it speaks of baptism , as the seal of the covenant , means it in this sense , as the words before recited shew , for what else can be meant when they distinguish between interest in the covenant , and right to the seal of it , and the ou●ward privileges of the church under the gospel . and rom. . . is alleged in the confession of faith , for the proof of this , that it is the seal of the covenant of grace ; now that text speaks of being a seal of the righteousness of faith , which is a saving grace , and in the confession of faith , ch . . art . . and in the greater catechism , they make the covenant of grace to offer life and salvation by christ , to promise faith , and to be made with christ , and in him with all the elect , as his seed ; and so the argument from the covenant of grace to the seal , must mean it thus , or else it is frivolous . for if the seal must follow the covenant ; it must follow the covenant which is sealed by it , which is only the promise of saving grace , there being no shew of consequence in it , infants of believers have not the covenant of saving grace , but of outward ordinances and church privileges , therefore they are to be sealed with that seal , which seals only saving graces . and yet methinks they should not have avouched as the directory doth , that the posterity of the faithful have by their birth interest in that covenant , considering how the ap●stle determines rom. . . the children of the flesh may not be the children of god , nor the seed , nor children of the promise . another ense of the promise , gen. . . is , i will be a god to abraham , and his natural seed by isaac and jacob : but in this sense it is proper only to the jewes , and the argument is as frivolous : god promised to be a god to the jews , therefore infant-gentiles who have nothing to do with that promise , must have baptism , which is no seal or token of that promise at all . if mr. m. would have done something to his purpose , he should have shewed , not as he doth p. , , &c. in many words quite besides the business , how the covenant is taken strictly and largely , and how they may be said to be in covenant in some sense , who have a visible right , without saving grace , but have shewed in which words there is any promise that may infer right to gentile-believers infants to be baptized , gen. . . or how he can prove what he saith , page . that baptism seals that promise in which god engageth himself to be the god of believing christians , and their seed ? i would fain know in what words , in respect of what blessings and gifts , and in what manner or upon what terms god thus engageth himself . the apostle saith gal. . . to abraham and his seed were the promises made . i no where find they were made to a gentile believer and his seed . the like playing with ambiguities is in the use of the phrases , foederate , in covenant , being under the covenant , being in covenant ▪ covenanters . when he saith , infants of believers are foederati or covenanters with god , or enter into covenant , according to the plain meaning of the word , they should be asserted to be such as make a promise to god. for what is a covenanter but one that makes a promise ? how do men enter into covenant , but by some act testifying assent to a promise ? now in this sense i should grant his major , and deny his minor , which in this sense is against sense . for when did any hear or see , or otherwise perceive an infant of a believer make a promise to god , or by any act of his , shew his assent to own god for his god. in the other form he saith , all such as are in the covenant should be sealed , and that expression seems to have this sense , that god by his act of promise as his words are page . engageth himself to be the god of believing christians , and their seed , which his words import , page . where having said , all such as are in the covenant should be sealed , to prove it he allegeth , gen. . , , , . where the very ground why god would have them sealed is because of the covenant , i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee , &c. so that the sense of his argument should be thus , all they who are in covenant , that is , to whom god hath promised to be their god , they should be sealed , &c. but all infants of believing , even gentile parents , are in covenant , that is , god hath promised to be their god : ergo. of which i would deny both major and minor the minor being expresly contrary to ro. . . though it were understood of true believers , and most certainly false of believers only in profession , to whom , especially th●se of the g●ntiles , god never promised to be god , much less to their natural seed ; yet the minor must be true of them , or else this argument proves not they are to be baptized , which is their practise . but seeing the argument for infant-baptism will not hold in these senses of the promise , gen. . . ( though the first sense be that which they give of that promise , when they dispute against arminians , and apply it to the elect onely , as the words of many shew , cited in my examen part . . s. . in my praecursor s. . mr. m. himself so expounds it with mr. bayn pag. . of his defence ) therefore mr. m. hath another sense to which he flies . he talks of an outward and an inward covenant , page . and page . he tells us , that he means all the infants of believers are in the outward covenant , that is , they are to be reputed as in the covenant , in respect of the outward administration , outward ordinances and church-privileges , which when it comes to application is meant of no other than baptism now , and circumcision heretofore , and therefore as i shew in my apology s. . the major proposition is meerly nugatory in this sense ; all that are in the covenant , that is , that are to have the initial seal should be sealed with the initial seal , which were true , but ridiculous . and in truth i may ( how ever it be censured ) apply to the discourse in this argument , be it mr. ms. or the assemblies , the poets words , parturiunt montes , nasc●tur ridiculus mus . and yet there is more shuffling in this thing . mr. m. to make some shew of answering my instances of women and males under eight daies old , not being circumcised , though in covenant , limits his major in the first form thus [ supposing them onely capable of the seal , and no special bar put in against them ] in the other form thus [ unless they be either uncapable of it , or are exempted by particular dispensation ] by the bar , he means gods prohibition , as these words , page . shew , god forbad them to have the seal till they were eight daies old . but a prohibition and a dispensation are not all one : a prohibition is of a thing , that may not be done ; a dispensation supposeth the thing is to be done , yet frees the person from doing it in some cases for some time . but letting pass this exception against the expressions , i would know how god put a bar , or forbad infants under eight daies old to be circumcised . i know no other but this , that god appointed the eighth day for them to be circumcised . now if this be a forbidding to circumcise before ( as i acknowledge it is , and so do many protestant divines , as parcus comment . in gen. . . errant masculi in foedere abjutero , &c. anticipare vero signum nec licebat , nec opus erat ) then that is forbidden , which is otherwise than god appointed : and sith our lord christ hath not appointed any to be baptized till they be disciples , he hath prohibited any to be baptized till they be disciples , and so , what ever the london ministers say in their words above recited , there is just ground even a prohibition , against baptizing infants . and so the minor of mr. ms. argument is not true . upon all this debate i profess i find so much inconsiderateness , or confusedness , or non-sense , or untruth , or trifling , if not juggling in mr. ms. arguing , that i must vary my answer , as i find his meaning sometimes denying the syllogism as being tautological , and not having three terms , or which is all one , any medium to prove his conclusion by , but only repeating the conclusion in different phrases , and those some of them new minted gibberish or non-sense , sometimes the major , sometimes the minor , sometimes both . however , sith it is my task , i shall view what he saith . page . he saith thus , which is apparent in the very first institution of an initial seal gen. . , , , . where the very ground why god would have them sealed is because of the covenant , i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant to be a god unto thee , and thy seed after thee : thou shalt keep my covenant therefore : and this is my covenant which ye shall keep ; every man-child among you shall be circumcised , and afterward in the fourteenth , the seal is by a metonymia called the covenant , for that it is apparent , not only that god commanded them who were in covenant to be circumcised , but that they should therefore be circumcised because of the covenant , or in token of the covenant between god and them ; and he that rejected or neglected the seal , is said not only to break gods commandment , but his covenant . so that because the initial seal was added to the covenant , and such as received it received it as an evidence of the covenant , or because they were in covenant ▪ i therefore concluded , that by gods own will , such as enter into covenant ought to receive the seal , supposing still they were capable of it . so that to lay circumcision upon gods command , and the covenant of grace too , are well consistent together ; for the command is the cause of the existence of the duty , but the covenant of grace is the motive to it . answ. here is all mr. ms. strength to prove his major , that it was gods will that such as are in covenant from abrahams time , and so forward , should be sealed with the initial seal of the covenant , which he after alters thus . such as enter into covenant ought to receive the seal . but there is nothing but confusedness and impertinency in all this passage . . he tells us , there is the institution of an initial seal gen. . , , , . which he must understand of an initial seal in general or indefinite , or else it reacheth not to baptism , and so it is impertinently alleged . but it is palpably false that there is in those words any other initial seal instituted then circumcision , and i dare boldly say , it is a meer dotage to maintain that in those words there is any rule about baptism or any other ordinance of god then circumcision . the very words are , thou shalt keep my covenant , and this covenant is demonstrated to be male-circumcision and no other , of which the time and part are precisely set down . . he should prove that all that were in covenant had title to the initial seal or right ; but his conclusion is of their duty , not of their title . now it cannot be said to be infants duty ; the command was not given to them , nor doth mr. m. i think , assert it as their duty , but as their privilege ; and yet all that the text inferreth , or mr. m. concludes from it , concerns the connexion between the duty of circumcising , which belongs not to infants , and the covenant , not between the privilege of circumcision passively taken , which belongs to infants and the covenant , which is another impertinency . . be it granted that the proposition to be proved is of duty in parents or ministers , yet he is necessitated to grant the command was the cause of the existence of the duty , and more plainly page . the formal reason of their being circumcised , was the command of god : which if true , there 's no duty without the command , whatever interest there might be in the covenant : and therefore the proposition is true , all that enter into covenant ought to receive the seal if it be commanded , not otherwise : and so neither infant-circumcision nor infant-baptism can be proved from the bare interest in the covenant , without a particular command for each of them . . he saith , the covenant of grace was the motive , page . the covenant of grace , or their church-state was the motive to it , and the thing it related to . but he tells us not to whom it was a motive . a motive is an impulsive cause , whereby a person is perswaded or induced to do a thing . but it was not the motive to infants , for they conceived not of it . his words [ the very ground why god would have them sealed , is because of the covenant ] do intimate , that he means the covenant was the motive to god to give the command . but what it makes to his purpose i do not conceive . for though that were the motive to god , yet gods motive is not the rule of the duty , but his command to us ; nor the evidence of our privilege , but his declaration of his will. but be it a motive to abraham , yet it was but a motive for the more full engagement of him to that which without that motive he had been to do by reason of the command , nor any further evidence of privilege then was imported by other declaration of gods will. . though circumcision did relate to the covenant , and it was received as an evidence of the covenant , yet this proves not that it was received by each person , because he was in covenant , nor that the being in covenant was the rule of the using that rite , that they which were in covenant should have it , and they that were not in covenant , should not have it , which is the thing to be proved , but is certainly false , as i have by many instances shewed . . if all this were granted , yet that this rule did reach further then the use of circumcision is not proved here : and what is brought elsewhere shall be shewed in it's place to be much short of proving any such general rule about an initial seal , as is here by mr. m. averred . but let us see what his proof amounts to about circumcision . . he urgeth , that circumcision is called a token of the covenant ; but this proves no more then this , that the use of circumcision was to be a sign god made such a covenant , and would fulfill it : not that every one that was in covenant was to be circumcised , or that every one that was to be circumcised was in covenant . . that it is termed the covenant . but this proves no more than the former , sith it is acknowledged to be so called only by a metonymia , of putting the thing signifyed for the sign . . the particle [ therfore ] is thus urged : god not only commanded them who were in covenant , 〈◊〉 b● circumcised , but that they should [ therfore ] be circumcised because of the covenant , or in token of the covenant between god & them ; but . the particle [ therfore ] though it be in our last translation , yet in the hebrew it is only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and may be rendered , and thou , or , but thou , as by the tig●● : it is & 〈◊〉 , by parcus , tu autem , piscator , tu verò . . let it be read [ therefore ] and the inference be from the covenant ; yet that the inference is from the promise in the seventh verse onely , and not from the eighth verse , which is next , or the rest of the promises , v. , , , cannot be shewed . . let these things be granted : yet that it imports this rule to be taken from the covenant , those who are in covenant are to be circumcised , not others , hath no colour of proof , nor any shew of truth in it , sith it is clear in the case of ishmael to whom that promise di● not belong nor any in that covenant , yet he was to be circumcised , and others were not to be circumcised , to whom the promises were made . . he urgeth thus : and he that rejected or neglected the seal is said not only to break gods commandment , but his covenant : so that because the initial seal was added to the covenant , and such as received it , received it as an evidence of the covenant , or because they were in covenant . to which i reply . two waies a man may be said to break gods covenant : one by breaking the command , which was in reference to the covenant , or enjoyned in testimony of it ; and if this be his sense , then mr. ms. speech is trifling , when he saith , he that rejected or neglected the seal , is said not only to break gods commandment , but his covenant , sit being all one to break the command and the covenant . the other sense is ; he hath broken my covenant , that is , as piscat . sch . on gen. . as much as is in him , by depriving himself of the grace of god , promised in the covenant . for otherwise the incredulity of man doth not make void the faith of god , rom. . . but take it either way , it proves not that which was to be proved , that the rule about circumcising persons was their interest in the covenant . all that follows on this is , that the observance of circumcision was strictly enjoined under this penalty , that otherwise they should be cut off from gods people , and so deprived of the benefit of the covenant signified ; but this doth not prove that every one circumcised was in the covenant , and should have the benefit of the covenant . so that though it be granted which mr. m. saies , that to lay circumcision upon gods command , and the covenant of grace too , are well consistent together ; yet his major is not proved , that it was gods will that such as are in covenant from abrahams time , and so forward , should be sealed with the initial seal of the covenant , supposing them only capable of the seal , and no special bar put in against them by god himself . nor is mr. m. more happy in answering my exceptions . whereas you allege , saith he , concerning melchisedec , lot , job ; we find no such thing , that they either received this seal of circumcision or were tyed to it . i reply , it s very hard for you to prove that melchisedeck was then alive : and had he been alive , he was of an higher order , and above that paedagogy . answ. i grant it cannot be demonstratively proved , that he was alive : yet it being probable he was , who not many years before met abraham , though he were in covenant , yet being not appointed to be circumcised , it overthrows the proposition by which mr. ms. enthymeme was to be proved , that all that are foederati , must be signati . yea mr. ms. answer here , that he was above that paedagogy , doth plainly intimate that circumcision was peculiar to that paedagogy , and so the rule about circumcision not obligatory to christian gentiles , to whom that paedagogy is abolished , and who have a priest of an higher order , to wit , that of melchisedec . as for lot , he denies not that he then lived , but saith , that no scripture saith he was not circumcised , which he saith of job also , whose time is uncertain , by reason of th● scripture-silence , though probably he was of esaus posterity . but in matters of fact , à non scripto ad non factum non valet consequentia . nevertheless for lot , it seems to me very unlikely he should be circumcised living then in sodom , not in abrahams house , and no mention made of him , when abraham circumcised his own house , and lots posterity being after uncircumcised jerem. . . and for job , what time soever he lived , it is likely he was an edomite ; who are reckoned for uncircumcised ier. . . and there are no passages that give any intimation of his acquaintance with israel . but if these serve not the turn , the example of cornelius undeniably uncircumcised , and not blamed for want of it , though undoubtedly in the covenant of grace , being one that feared god with all his house , and his prayers and alms heard , therefore he was not to be circumcised though in the covenant of grace , nor all that enter into covenant ought to be sealed with the initial seal , though capable , and no bar put in against them by god. i instanced in male infants of jews under eight daies old , who were not to be circumcised , though in covenant . mr. m. answers , to that of infants there was a peculiar exemption of them by god himself ; whether for any typical reason , or in regard they were not fit in nature to undergo so sharp a pain , as was to be endured in circumcision before the seventh and critical day was past , or whether for any other cause , i dispute not ; it is sufficient , god forbad them to have the seal till they were eight daies old . answ. this is a grant of the objection , and overthrows the proposition of mr. m. in his sermon ; all that are in covenant are to be sealed . and the forbidding , being onely by not appointing it , the proposition can be t●ue onely in this sense ; all those in covenant are to be circumcised , to whom it is appointed , and no other ; but infants are in covenant , and to them it is appointed to be sealed with the initial seal in the new testament : ergo. wherein i should grant the major , and deny the minor , and infer that without appointment interest in the covenant did not make capable , no not of circumcision , though it 's likely infants might have born it in the end of the seventh day as well as on the eighth . i alleged that no females in abrahams family , though in covenant , were to be circumcised . to this mr. m. answers . for the women , they were not subjectum capax circumcisionis , there was in them a natural impediment against it , therefore could it not be enjoined them : and suppose some men amongst them , or some who turned proselytes to them , had not had a praep●tium ( as some sort of eunuchs ) this ordinance had not reached them ; whether the wisdom of god purposely chose a sign that women might not be capable of receiving it , for some typical use , as some conjecture , it is sufficient they were not capable of it , and were exempted from it by god himself . answ. if it be true , which many authors relate , that the habassines , and iacobites do at this day , circumcise females ; then it is not true , they were uncapable of it by reason of natural impediment . but if it be true which mr. m. saith , yet gods chosing a sign of which they were not capable , and that for a typical use , when he might have chosen one as baptism , of which both s●xes were capable , it is an evidence , that it was not the will of god since abrahams time , and so forward , that all in covenant should be sealed with the initial seal , which was mr. ms. proposition . nor do his two limitations added in his defence help him . for if incapacity and non-appointment be a sufficient exemption from the initial seal , yea a prohibition of it , then his proposition is but what i contend for , that those in covenant to whom god appoints it and no other , are to have the initial seal ; which is as much as i would evince , that it is not bare interest in the covenant without institution or appointment that gives right to a person to claim either circumcision or baptism , nor warrants a baptizer to admit a person to baptism . and therefore though it were yielded that all infants of believers were in covenant , yet they have not right to either initial seal without a command , or institution concerning each rite . as for mr. ms. general proposition as he states it , as it advantageth it him not for the reason last given , so it may be granted , if he mean by exemption or particular dispensation the non-appointment of it . for then i am sure infants of believers are exempted from baptism till they be proved disciples of christ , or believers by profession ; which if it could be proved , we need not fetch it from circumcision and the covenant . from which they that deduce infant-baptism , do but in vain weary themselves and others , as they that seek to draw water out of a pumice stone . but there is some more in mr. m. about womens circumcision , which i must not omit . mr. m. in his sermon had answered , that women were circumcised virtually in the m●les . to which i answered , that a virtual circumcision was not enough to make good his argument : for then his syllogism must have four terms , thus . they that are in covenant must be sealed actually in their now persons , or virtually in others . but infants of believers are in the covenant , therefore they are to be sealed . if the conclusion be meant of actual sealing in their own persons then there are four terms , and more in the conclusion then in the premisses . but if it be meant disjunctively , they are to be sealed actually or virtually : then it is less than is to be proved , his business being to prove that they were to be sealed actually . for a virtual sealing is less than mr. m. would have , and might be granted without any detriment to the cause of anti-paedobaptism . to this mr m. makes no answer at all , but chargeth me with a scoff where there was none , tells me it is like refuting bellarmine with , thou liest : whereas i did shew wherein his answer was insufficient , and that by putting his syllogism into form , according to his own meaning , and then shewing how it would not conclude what he should prove . and to this in his defence he makes no answer , but tells us , what his plain meaning was , which is nothing to the present point : he should have shewed how , with that exposition or limitation his argument would prove actual sealing of infants in their own persons . but to slight a reason and speak nothing to it , is not to answer , but to shift . but i also said , to speak exactly , women were not circumcised virtually in the males : for that supposeth they might receive it in their own persons , wheras it had been a sin in them to be circumcised , god not appointing it : which is confirmed by the like , it would be sin for the male to be circumcised afore the eighth day , sith it was not appointed : which may now be confirmed by mr. ms. words , that god forbad them to have the seal till they were eight daies old . to this saith mr. m. but first give me leave to observe by the way how you pinch me with a point of law , that no man can be said virtually to have that by his proxy or atturney , which he might not actually receive himself in his own person . i question whether this be good law ; but i am confident it is bad divinity ; sure we sinned virtually in adam , yet we could not actually , though the sin of adam be ours by imputation . the sun is virtually hot , yet philosophers say , it 's not actually . and the jews of old offered to god such things by the hands of the priests , who were their proxies in that work , which they might not offer in their own persons , yea and received such things by the hand of the high priest ( who bare their names in the most holy place ) which they might not receive in their own persons immediately : and the saints now in this world do virtually and quoad effectum juris , receive some such privileges in christ their advocate , who in their right is at gods right hand , which here they are not capable of receiving immediatrly in their own persons . answ. my words were not as mr. m. recited them , but thus . he is said virtually to have a thing by another , as by a proxy or atturney , that might receive it by himself ; yet quoad effectum juris , according to the effect of law another's receiving it is , as if he had received it . in which i understand by [ having a thing ] that having a thing which is by possession of it , as a benefit , privilege , commodity , and by [ might receive it ] without any prohibition in law , and that he receives it not in his own person , is onely from some temporary impediment , as minority , absence or the like . and this according to that skill i have in such terms , i conceive still to be the meaning of them . nor do mr. ms. instances take me any whit off from it , being without fear of being chargeable with bad law or divinity . for our sinning in adam is not receiving something as a benefit : the suns heat is natural , not by vertue of any political law , it is not having as a proxy or atturney for another ; the high priests offering for the people was an action in their stead , not receiving a benefit for them , and what they received for the people which they might not receive in their own persons immediately was not by reason of any prohibition , but from some other cause , nor were they in imparting it , the peoples proxies or atturneys , but gods : were it an answer from god or any other thing they received for them , if god had immediately communicated it to them , it had not been their sin . and the like may be said of what christ receives for us as our advocate . but the circumcising of women had been a sin forbidden , according to mr. marshalls and others doctrine before recited , they were prohibited to be circumcised , it being limitted to the males on the . day . mr. m. addes . i also obiter desire you to remember this expression of yours , that it had been a sin for a child to have been circumcised after the eight day was past , and try how you will reconcile this with another opinion of yours delivered elsewhere ; viz. that circumcision might be administred oftner then once ; surely those other times must be after the . day . answ. where i deliver this , that circumcision might be administred oftner than once , i remember not , except in my examen , page . however i conceive no necessity of circumcision or baptism above once , yet i profess my self unsatisfyed in this , that there is either a command that a person be but once circumcised , or a person once onely baptized . and my reason of the speech is from hence . cor. . . the apostle saith , is one called circumcised , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let him not be drawn up , that is , let him not draw up his foreskin : we translate it , let him not become uncircumcised . whence it may be perceived , that some jews had an art to draw up their fore-skin . now in such a case , while the law stood in force , i conceive he was bound to be circumcised again , because it was to abide in his flesh , gen. . . nor do my words at all contradict this , when i say more fully then mr. m. recites them ; it had been a sin for a child to be circumcised afore , or after the eigth day in them that altered or swerved from the appointment of god : where i make the sin not to be the doing of it , on the eighth day , and then doing it again ( though i deny not but unnecessarily to do it after the eight day had been sin , that day being determined for it ) but not doing it that day which god appointed by those that altered or swerved from that appointment unnecessarily : which in the case mentioned , and any other of the like , might be done after the eighth day . but m. m. will confirm his proofs , that the women were circumcised in the men . my first , saith he to me , was , that the whole house of israel are in the scripture said to be circumcised . you answer , that by the whole house of israel must not be meant all , but the major part . but sir do you imagine that any of your judicious readers can be satisfyed with this answer , when ( you know well enough ) that the circumcision is put for the church and people of god in opposition to the uncircumcised , that is , all the rest of the world who were not the people of god. when peter was to go to the circumcision , and paul to the gentiles to preach the gospel ; does not circumcision include the women jews as much as the men , in opposition to gentiles , as well as the word gentiles includes women gentiles as well as the men , to whom paul was sent ? gal. . , . surely it must needs be granted , that not only the major or nobler part , but the whole nation of the jews both men and women , are there meant by circumcision , which could not have been , if in some sense they were not to be accounted circumcised . answ. my answer might satisfie any judicious reader , specially if the texts had been fairly set down by mr. m. wherein i shew all israel , and all the house of israel must be understood synecdochically , sam. . . acts . . acts . . and if in the term [ circumcision ] be not a synecdoche of the whole for the part ; not onely every individual in israel must be in some sense accounted circumcised , but be actually circumcised also in their own persons . nor against such a synecdoche doth it make , that circumcision stands in opposition to the uncircumcised , which is meant of every individual . for neither is it true , when the uncircumcised are mentioned , it is meant of every individual , there being many of those nations that were circumcised ; and if it were true , yet the opposition doth not prove every individual jew circumcised , any more then when they are called the holy nation in opposition to the gentiles : as when it was said , israel was holiness to the lord , jerem. . . every israelite or jew must be counted holy in some sense : but the terms are attributed synecdochically . and for the other instance , i grant circumcision must include gal. . . women as well as men , because peter was to go to them : but this proves not that women were in some sense accounted circumcised in the males , but that they are part of the nation which were called the circumcision synecdochically , because of the males . and for the term gentiles , there must be in like manner a synecdoche conceived of the whole for a part , else he should be sent to preach to infant males as well as women of years . secondly , saith mr. m. i argued thus , no uncircumcised might eat the passoever ; ergo their women might not have eaten it , if in some sense they had not been circumcised . your answer is , this is to be limitted pro subjecta ma●eria , none that ought to be circumcised might eat the passeover , unless they were circumcised . but this answer is altogether insufficient . for where is this distinction of yours found or founded in the word of god ? other distinctions about eating the passeover are cleerly found : the clean might eat it , the unclean might not eat it , the circumcised might , the uncircumcised might not : but of your limitation there is altum silentium . answ. mr. ms. conclusion is , that in some sense women were circumcised , and before in some sense they were counted circumcised , neither of which is the same with this [ they were circumcised virtually in the males , or the males were circumcised in their stead as their proxy or atturney . ] . my answer was right , and to his demand , where it is found in the word of god ? i answer by another demand , where is his limitation found in gods word , that women might eat the passeover , because they were in some sense accounted circumcised ? sure the words are , exod. . . no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof , not as mr. m. none but those that are counted in some sense circumcised may eat thereof : if there be in scripture that which doth necessitate to a limitation of that speech , my limitation is as well in scripture as his is : yea my limitation is plain and easie , whereas his limitation is liable to this objection , that when gods law requires persons to be circumcised that they might eat the passeover , if mr , ms. limitation or explication be good , it should require no more but this , that persons in some sense should be accounted circumcised . for so mr. m. understands the law , and then , though the males were not actually circumcised , but virtually , in some sense , so accounted they might eat it , without breach of the law , which absurdity doth not follow on my limitation , but follows inevitably on mr. ms. . saith mr. m. i demand further , where is there any command or institution for women to eat the passeover ( more than for women now to eat the lords supper ) unless it be founded upon circumcision ? yet in practice we know they did eat it ? and if they eat it not as circumcised persons , tell me by what right they did it . answ. i have proved examen part . . s. . pag. . postscript to my apology s. . that cor. . . & . . and . . acts . . are express precept and example for womens receiving the lords supper . and for eating the paseover , there is an expresse precept , that all the congregation of israel shall keep it , exod . . in which women were meant , and they were to eat according to the number of the souls v. . and no leaven was to be in their habitation , v. . therfore either women must eat the passeover , or else they must not eat bread : so that we need not go to circumcision for womens eating the passeover . yea , if we use no other way than that of mr. m. it will not be proved that women ought to eat it . for exodus . . no mention is made of any circumcised who are to eat it , but males ; and though it be said , no uncircumcised might eat , yet it is not said , all circumcised must eat , much less they that are only in some sense counted circumcised . but mr. m. seeks to make his advantage of this point thus . if you say they were included in the houshold exod. . , . every houshold was to eat the paschal lamb , and there was no exception of women ; i reply , first grant but the same consequence , that when we read so frequently in the new t. that whole housholds were baptized , and no exception of children , that therefore all the children in those housholds were baptized , and this controversy is quickly ended . answ. if it were granted that we had no other way to prove women were to eat the paschal lamb ( which yet we need not , as i have shewed ) but from exod. . , . in that every houshold was to eat the lamb , and there was no exception of women , yet the consequence were not good ; whole housholds were baptized , therefore infants , because not expresly excepted . for as exod. . , infants are excepted from being required to eat the lamb , though not in express words , yet because the thing to be done was not such as could agree to infants of a few daies old , suppose eight or nine . so where act. . , . and . . cor. . . the houshold is said to be baptized , besides this , that no infants are expressed , in the same chapter or elsewhere , the speech is plainly interpreted to be meant of those that heard the word , and believed , as acts the eleventh chapter , and fourteenth verse , and ch . . v. , . and . . cor. . . as if the holy ghost had of purpose prevented this misconstruction and frivolous consequence of paedobaptists . but saith mr. m. i add further , it is not said the whole houshold shall eat it , for all uncircumcised persons were forbidden to eat it , and none but circumcised persons had warrant to eat it . answ. it is said , exod. . . they shall eat the lamb according to the number of souls , i. e. hominum pisc. schol. in locum , every man according to his eating , which is a plain precept for women to eat who could eat . yea further , saith mr. m. suppose some words in the institution should reach the jewish women , yet how doth it reach the women gentiles who should prove proselytes to them ? for exodus chapter . verse , . there is order taken for the male stranger , let all his males be circumcised , and then let him come near and keep it , but there is not any word that takes order for the strangers females . answer . it is said verse fourty seven , that all the congregation of israel shall keep it , and the proselytes of righteousnesse , women as well as men were of that congregation , and verse fourty nine , it is said , one law shall be to him that is homeborn , and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you : if then the law appointed the israelitish women to eat , the same law appointed the proselyte women to eat . so that notwithstanding mr. ms. vain hope , my exception against the consequence of his argument , they are foederati ; therefore they are to be signati , stand good and it is not yet proved , that bare interest in the covenant genesis . or the covenant of grace did intitle to circumcision , much less to baptism , which were enough to overthrow his first argument . but sith it is my task , i will now go on to the rest of his dispute , taking in by the way master blakes third section of the . chapter of his vindic . foederis . sect . xix . mr. blakes exceptions against my speeches in the point about the connexion between the covenant , and initial seal , are refelled . mr. blake asserts a reality of connexion between the covenant and initial seal , and first he meddles with my examen , and then with my anti-paedobaptism . to my objection that the proposition is not true , that all that were federate in abrahams family , were to be signed , for neither males afore the eighth day , nor females were to be circumcised , besides his avouching master marshall● answer as sufficient , which is reviewed before , he saith , is there no connexion between them , because he that receives into covenant and appoints the seal , hath prescribed a time when it shall be applyed ? to which i say , it proves that there is not a connexion between being federate , and to be signed , to make this proposition true , all that are federate are to be signed , barely in that they are federate . for they are federate the first , second , third , fourth , fifth , sixth , seventh day , as well as the eighth , yet not to be signed , whereas if there was such a connexion between them according to gods will , that the one being put , the other is to be put , they would be to be signed as soon as ever they are federate . and if it be gods will that they should be signed , but not till the appointed time after , i might say that though infants were federate , yet they were not to be signed with baptism till gods appointed time , which is not till they be disciples , and so infant baptism is not proved from their being in covenant , the major proposition , all that are in covenant are to be signed , being true only with this limitation , in the appointed time , which is not for baptism till they be disciples . and whereas in answer to my objection , that if infants have right to the seal by being in covenant , then they have right to the lords supper , he answers . . that in baptism there is no more of necessity than to be passive . this is false , for baptism is enjoined as a duty , and such as is to have repentance and faith antecedent mark chap. . . acts the . chap. . acts chap. . verse . . he grants that infants have true title to the lords supper , jus ad rem , not jus in re , a right to it , yet by reason of infancy have their actual interest suspended . but . still mr. blake speaks of the lords supper , and of baptism , as of privileges meerly , whereas the scripture speaks of each as a duty as well as a privilege . . by the same distinction an answer is given to him concerning infants baptism , that though they have the right to it , yet by reason of infancy , the actual interest of it is to be suspended , they being no more able to profess the faith , till they be grown to some riper age then a cradle king to rule a kingdome . so that mr. blakes answers yield more exceptions against mr. ms. argument , confirm it not at al , but shew how we may grant his major , and yet so limit it that it will be too short of proving baptism of federate persons in infancy : and these passages of master blake appear to be cavils and not an●wers . he next sets upon the fifth section of the first part of my review , and excepts , . that i shew not where to find mr. baillees words . but if he had looked into my letter mentioned , he had found them quickly in the third section . . that i denyed the metaphor of a seal to be rightly made , the genus of a rite , as of baptism , to which he replies in his flirting fashion . we shall expect another letter to shew saint pauls definition , rom. . . to be alike light ( who runs upon the same errour , if an errour ) when he saies that circumcision is a sign and seal , there is the genus and the differentia lies in these words to distinguish it from other signs , and seals of the righteousness of faith . the nature of a sacrament stands in a figure , and the whole efficacy of it in the use . and how else then should the nature and use of it be held out ? to which i answer , paul doth not give a definition , rom. . . of circumcision , much less doth he define a sacrament in general . every definition is reciprocal with the thing defined , but mr. bl. i presume will not say ; every circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of faith , and every seal of the righteousness of faith is circumcision . besides individuals are not wont to be defined , but what is there said is said of the singular circumcision of abraham , and no other . the title given to abrahams circumcision doth but shew what the use of it was to him , not what was the constant nature , and use of it on and to others . which appears from the particularizing circumstances so exactly noted by the apostle , to wit , the times of his justification and circumcision , which do shew that it was appropriated to abrahams circumcision , on his own body , what he there said of circumcision . there is no more reason to make this the definition of circumcision [ the seal of the righteousness of faith ] then to make that [ tim . . the root of all evil ] the definition of the love of money , or that [ heb. . . the end of all strife ] the definition of an oath , or that [ v. . the anchor of the soul firm and stable ] the definition of hope , or that [ heb. . . the evidence of things not seen ] the definition of faith a seal cannot be the genus of it , being a metaphor , for a metaphor shews not what it is , but what it is like . circumcision is an action as it is from the agent , as in the subject a passion . the relation that comes to it is not from its nature , but by institution , and is the end of it , rather than the genus , rather for what it is , than what it is . a seal is an artificial body compound of a substance and figure , which cannot be said of circumcision . what mr. bl. saith , that the nature of a sacrament stands in a figure , cannot be true of such a figure as is in a seal , for so baptism , the passeover , the lords supper should be no sacrament sith they do not make any figure on the body , nor of figure of speech , for so a sacrament should not be a visible sign , but an audible . i grant the use of it is to resemble by a visible sign some other thing , as the breaking bread , christs body broken , and in that sense it may be called a figure as augustine called the bread the figure of christs body . but the use belongs to the difference to distinguish it from the same action or passion used to another purpose , not to the genus . and yet sign and seal of the righteousnesse of faith , cannot be the difference to distinguish a sacrament from the preaching of the gospel , for the preaching of the gospel by word or writing is a sign or seal of the righteousness of faith . what is said rom. . . that abraham received the sign of circumcision , the seal of the righteousness of faith , is not all one with this [ a seal of the covenant of grace ] for it is added [ which he had yet , being uncircumcised ] and therefore was a sign not of a promise or covenant , concerning a thing to be done , but of a thing accomplished or already done . i see not how rom. . . either the general nature of a sacrament , or the special nature of circumcision may be said to be defined . nor do i conceive it true which mr. bl. saith , the whole efficacy of a sacrament is in the use : i suppose baptism , and the lords supper have their efficacy in comforting , moving to holiness , love , &c. after the use . the nature and use of a sacrament may be otherwise held out then mr. bl. doth , which i now omit . it is sufficient at present to shew the emptiness of mr. bls. dictates . and for my rejecting of the common use of the terms of seals of the covenant , and initial seals as synonymous to sacraments and baptism , especially in disputes wherein proper terms should be used , i have given sufficient reason from the abuses of paedobaptists inferring errours from a late devised term , and imposing on mens consciences : yet i profess , if baptism were granted to be a seal or initial seal , that i think that it would not follow , that it hath that relation to the covenant ; that infants in covenant must not be denied it , but that it is a frivolous argument , infants are in covenant , therefore they must have the initial seal of the covenant : for which if i had no other reason , yet that one of mr. bl. that though a person be in covenant , and have right to the seal , yet he is not to have it till the appointed time , it were sufficient to justifie my censure . mr. bl. excepts against my speech , that to have the promise , and to be a disciple or believer , are not all one , for he conceives to have a promise in scripture phrase is to possesse it , as those jews after the flesh did possess , rom. . ▪ and how to possesse a promise without faith , he doth not yet understand . whereto i reply , that i find the term [ promise ] used in scripture sometimes metonymically for the thing promised , , as luke● ● . . when christ saith , i send the promise of the father upon you , he means the holy ghost promised , and it is true in this sense , to have a promise is to possesse it . but in proper acception the term [ promise ] notes the act of the person promising , as gal. . . to abraham and his seed were the promises made , or spoken . so likewise v. , . and in this sense he hath a promise , who hath not possession of the thing promised , and thus we usually say , i have not yet such an office , revenue , estate , &c. but i have a promise of it . in which sense i took it , and so it is true , that in this sense , a man may have the promise , and not be a believer or disciple as yet . and thus i conceive it taken in all the three places in the new testament cor. . . tim. . . heb. . . and in this sense a person may have a promise afore he is a believer . mr. blake further excepts against me : that . i make these terms all one , to have a promise , and to be a child of the promise . . that i make a child of the promise , rom. . . to be all one with to be an elect person , as isaac and jacob , v. , , . were children of the promise , to whom the promise was made before they were born . but mr. blake saith , that to have a promise , and to be a child of promise , are two different things in scripture ; yet shews not the difference between them . in that expression rom. . . the child of the promise ( according to the usuall hebraisms , child of light , child of wrath , son of perdition , which note the person who is the subject or object of those several terms attributed ) is a person of whom , or for whom , the promise is made , and so it is all one with [ to have the promise . ] but saith m. bl. if the child of the promise were all one with to be elect , then ( according to me ) all the jews according to the flesh were elect persons ; they had the promises , yea those that were actors in christs death acts . . which he must needs yield to be an absurdity . to which i reply , i do not conceive how this is true according to me , that if children of the promise be all elect , all the jews according to the flesh were elect persons . sure i no where make all the jews according to the flesh children of the promise . yea the text rom. . . is so express against it , that the children of the flesh , are denied to be children of gods , that is , children of the promise , which the words shew to be equipollent . yea it is the express determination , v. . that all that are of israel , to wit , by natural generation , are not israel , to whom the promise was made ; nor all children ( that is , of god , and of the promise ) who are the seed of abraham , v. . but that no other were children of the promise , though the seed natural of abraham and isaac : but elect persons , the apostle doth not onely assert , but prove it in esau and jacob , v. , , , . it is true , rom. . . it is said the promises were the israelites : but whatever the promises there meant were , whether of spiritual or corporal good things , yet it follows not that of every israelite were the promises any more than that of every israelite , v. . was christ according to the flesh . nor acts . . is it said that all the jews according to the flesh had the promises . but that the promise was to them , their children and all afar off , whom god should call : the promise is attributed to none but the called of god. the generality of anti-arminian protestants make children of the promise to be all one with the elect , rom. . . some i allege in my exam. part . . sect . . some more in my praecursor , and more i meet with in my reading . it is not true which mr. bl. saith , that isaac being born by promise , all his posterity originally were of the same birth , for the apostle concludes the contrary of esau , rom. . , , . the text gal. . . is rightly brought to shew that all jews according to the flesh , are not the children of the promise , but as mr. dioson , we , that is believing christians , who were born after the spirit , and presented by them that were born after the flesh , v. . that is , by the unbelieving jew , who stuck to the legal covenant . nor need we say , that all the visible churches of galatia were born after the spirit , but onely that the true believers in them were so . nor is there a word of any privileges inferiour to justification , as the series of the text shews , and many learned protestants cleerly express . that which master blake saith , he will maintain , that every one in covenant is a believer , a disciple , that believers are same formally , such as in act assent to gospel revelations ; some virtually , such as have the privileges of professing believers , that infants in covenant are virtually believers , in that they are honoured with the privileges of believers , and that this distinction the scripture warrants , are all vain dictates , there being not one scripture that ever calls any a believer from a privilege , but from the act of assent or profession of faith , nor is there the least colour for it out of scripture to call infants in covenant believers without their own act of assent or profession of faith , and therefore i let pass these speeches of m. bl. as idle unproved talk , of which his book is full . mr. bl. excepts against my speech , some not yet born , some not yet called are in the covenant , have the promise of grace made to them . i have read ( saith he ) of a covenant entered with those that at the instant time of the making of the covenant were present , and with those that were not present , deut. . . with men of years , and them with their little ones , deut. . . but i read not of a covenant actually made with any unborn . answ. my expression [ are in covenant ] i confess that i remember not used in the scripture , yet it is usual in the writings of paedobaptists , who usually say , infants are in the covenant of grace with their parents . the assemblies larger catechism avoucheth infants of parents , professing faith in christ within the covenant . mr. m. in his sermon p. . , &c. and this expression of theirs i knew not how to conceive they meant otherwise then thus , infants have gods promise of grace made to them , or for them , as in the directory , the promise is made to believers and their seed . for infants said to be in the covenant must be so by some act either their own , or the administrators , or gods. not by any act of their own , for they do nothing to that effect ; not by the administrator of baptisms act , for he doth nothing but baptize , and if his act be bringing into covenant then bringing into covenant is all one with baptizing , and if an infidels child be baptized it is in covenant . besides paedobaptists assert they are within the covenant afore they are baptized , as the directory saith , they are foederally holy before baptism it remains then that it is by gods promise . now surely gods promise to abraham , and his seed gen. . . which is usually made the promise whereby infants of believers are in covenant , was many thousand years since , . years before the law , gal. . . . therefore even according to the usual language of paedobaptists infants of believers are in covenant afore they are born : which mr. bl. had no cause to carp at ( as he doth ) but that it is almost all his art , especially when i had to prevent it , so distinctly added to shew my meaning [ have the promise of grace made to them ] if mr. bl. have any other way whereby infants are in the covenant , as the parents vow , or profession , or suretie for them , according to it ; i suppose , infants may be said to be in covenant afore they are born , sith such vows , profession and promises may be made for them afore they are born let 's consider what m. b saith . he tels us , he reads not of a covenant actually made with any unborn . and as i conceive by his appendix to his vindic. foederis , as an addition to his first chapter , his reason is , because he conceives that it is of the general nature of a covenant properly so called , that there be a mutual contract and agreement , which i shall examine when i consider mr. cobbers part . . c. . sect . . of his iust vindic. for present , if this be true , neither can a covenant be actually made with an infant born , sith an infant born can no more contract , or agree , or consent , then one unborn . nevertheless i conceive , there is a covenant actually made with persons unborn gen. . . where god saith , this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you , and every living creature , that is , with you , for perpetual generations : which doth express a covenant actually made with every living creature of all flesh for perpetual generations , therefore for thousands of persons unborn . yea where he saith , he readeth of a covenant entered into with those that were not present , deut. . . he reads of a covenant made with persons unborn , as piscator , ainsworth , iackson , grotius , the new annot. the notes out of the arch-bishop of yorks library , &c. do conceive , and reason proves it : sith that covenant was made only with israel , not with any other people then existent , but there was none of all israel then born , which was not there that day , as appears from v. . therfore those that were not there with them that day , can be no other then persons unborn , and so mr. blake saith not true , that he hath not read of a covenant actually made with any unborn . but were it granted that by them that were not present were meant persons existent then , there is no reason why a covenant may not as well be said to be actually made with the unborn as with the absent , who do not express any actual consent or agreement . surely if it be true that the covenant of grace was made with christ afore the world for all the elect , or in the beginning of time , gen. . . or at his death or resurrection , as many divines speak , and sundry texts seem to intimate , gal. . . cor. . . tit. . . tim. . . joh. . , , . iohn . , , , , . iob. . , , , . isa. . , . psal. . , . heb. . , . heb. . , , . heb. . . heb. . . it must of necessity be made with many persons unborn . but mr. blake adds . mr. tombs seems here to make the covenant and election to be one and the same , as by this passage , so by that which follows ; but these scripture still distinguishes . to which i say , it is true that i make the elect and those that are in the covenant of grace one and the same , but neither in that passage or any other , do i make the covenant and election to be one and the same , as mr. blake mistakes me . he saith further ; we find promises and prophecies , as to the taking into covenant in time to come , ezek. . . but not any such respective to election . to which i say , the prophecy of taking into covenant , ierem. . , . is respective to election , or else god promises to write his laws in their hearts , and not to remember their sins who are not elect . he goes on . all the promises of call of the gentiles is to bring them into the privileges of glory , formerly proper to the jews . to be in covenant was their great privilege : and this is not conferred on the gentiles before all time , but done in time , isaiah . . when he brings them light , then he brings them into covenant . to which i say , the jews privileges were some of them ( as those rom. . , . ) such as god never promised to the gentiles to bring them to , he never promised to make any entire nation little ones , servants , &c. to be his visible church . but god promised to the gentiles the saving privileges of justification , adoption , regeneration , eternal life , ephes. . , . and this was onely to true believers or elect persons , verse . , . and these were in covenant in respect of gods act of promise before they were in being , in which sense alone infants may be said to be in the covenant of grace ; but in respect of the conferring of the things promised and the possession of them by faith , so neither they then were in covenant ephes. . . nor are infants now . he adds , that text rom. . , , is too notoriously abused ; a prophecy of their future call into covenant , is made a proof that they are already in covenant , upon that account we may make the resurrection ( if not past , as the antient hereticks hymen●us and phile●us affirmed , tim. . . yet ) at least present . there is like promise of the resurrection of the dead , as there is of the call of the jews into covenant , and resembled to the resurrection , as ezek. . so also rom. . . if by vertue of the text alleged they be already in covenant , by virtue of like texts the dead are already raised . answ. had mr. bl. either heeded my words , or been willing to give them any fair interpretation , he had forborn this censure , in which he doth too notoriously abuse me . i said , the jews , rom. . , . not yet born , or not yet called are in the covenant , have the promise of grace made to them , which later words i put in on purpose to shew in what sense i said they were in covenant , to wit , in that they had the promise of grace made to them ( in which sense i took the paedobaptists to mean , that infants are in the covenant of grace , nor do i yet know how they can mean otherwise ) and this is proved plainly from rom. . , . that god hath promised to save all israel , to turn away ungodliness from iacob , and saith , this is his covenant unto them , when he shall take away their sins . i say not they are in covenant in respect of the things promised as already possessed , but that they are in covenant in respect of gods act of promise , they have promise of that which they shall have when they are called , as i often express my self : which being rightly understood , the cavil of mr. bl. vanisheth of it self , for though the resurrection be not past , because of a promise of it , yet the term covenant being the same with a promise they may be said to be in covenant in respect of a promise made to them , who yet enjoy not the thing promised . which is confirmed even from the common allegation of paedobaptists , who say , that by virtue of the promise , gen. . . to be a god to abraham and his seed , infants of believers are in the covenant , which can be true only in respect of the promise made , which is as much before they are born as after . to this mr. bl. answers , . that this can be an argument barely ad hominem ; seeing though we affirm , yet he denies any such covenant . i reply : . that it is true that i deny that gen. . . there is a covenant made to believers and their seed , but i deny not the covenant to be to abraham and his seed , nor do i deny elect infants to be therein comprehended , and that afore they are born . . if it be only an argument barely ad hominem , yet it is sufficient , till the tenet on which it proceeds be disclaimed by them , which mr. bl. hath not yet the heart to do . but he answers , . i say , as they were in being , so they were also in covenant , not actually , but potentially , which is nothing to master tombes his purpose . i reply . to be potentially in covenant may be meant either in respect of possession of the things promised , and so i grant they were in covenant onely potentially , or in respect of the making of the covenant , and so they were in covenant actually , that is , the promise was made to them , and this is enough for my purpose to prove a person may be in covenant unborn , in which sense onely infants are in covenant , and therefore if infants thus being in covenant make them visible church-members , and give right to their baptism , by the same reason unborn or uncalled infidels have right to baptism . mr. bl. page . saith , he willingly closeth with me , where i say , that the judgement of charity is no rule to a minister whom to baptize ; nor do i dissent from what he saith , if his meaning be as the words seem , i as well know when any man is in covenant , as he knows when he is a believer : when any man doth avouch himself to be one of the people of god , as he knows when they professe to believe . i do confesse that by the same knowledge whereby any man is known , and so far as he is known to be a believer , he is known so far to be in covenant ; he that avoucheth himself to be one of gods people , and that professeth to believe is in appearance , and to be taken as in covenant , and a believer . but how doth mr. bl. know that this or that infant is in covenant and to be baptized ? not by gods promise , for there is no such promise of any gentile believer , that all his infants , or any one in particular shall be his people , either by regenerating grace , or outward ordinance : not by profession of believing or avouching himself to be one of the people of god , for no infant doth , or can without miracle do it ; therefore it must be by a judgement of charity ( which mr. bl. agrees with me to be no rule to a minister whom to baptize ) or no way . and consequently were it granted ( which is not ) that being in covenant in respect of gods promise of being a god to some infants of believers did give a title to baptism , yet no minister could upon this ground baptize this or that particular infant , nor any infant now existent , sith he neither doth nor can know without special revelation , that god hath made this promise or covenant to it . what he addes , and it appears when it is brought home , this is all his ground of challenge of baptism of persons in covenant , because their interest in covenant is not manifest , is not right . for i assert first , that bare interest in the covenant , that is , as i have often said , this thing , that god hath promised to be his god , doth not of it self intitle a person to baptism , sith god hath made this promise to thousands yet unborn , and of those that are born to thousands yet uncalled , perhaps jews , yet professed unbelievers , whom no man can say rightly to have title to baptism . . that if it were granted this interest in the covenant did intitle to baptism , yet no minister can by this rule justify his baptizing of an infant , sith he neither hath , nor can have , ordinarily , knowledge , that the infant he baptizeth hath this interest in the covenant . what he saith of me , that i seem to make election and interest in covenant commensurate ; all elect are interessed in covenant , and all interessed in covenant are elect ; i do grant it , being understood of the covenant of evangelical grace , of regeneration , justification , &c. in respect of gods promise of it , and i have often shewed that both paul , rom. . . and many of the soundest protestant divines say the same . but what he addes of me ; and elect infants ( as he hath more then once acknowledged ) might be baptized in case their election were known , is mr. bls. mistake of me , who do no where say , that they may be baptized in case their election were made known , but that infants born might be baptized in case their regeneration , faith , sanctification were made known . whereas a person not yet begotten , may be known to be elect , but not to be regenerated , or made a believer . and by my tenet there is a bar against baptizing of infants , in that they want title to baptism ; and if they have title , we want knowledge of it . as for paedobaptists tenent i profess , i do not know what they count a bar against baptizing of infants according to their tenent , there being such uncertainty in their tenents , some holding all are to be baptized in case of danger of death , some all born in a christian nation , some , all who are in families of persons professing the christian faith , though the parents were infidels ; some , onely the children of church-members after the way they call congregational ; some judging of the interest in the covenant by a judgement of charity ; some by a judgement of certainty . what my tenet is , i have shewed already . though i conceive that christs words , mat. . . did import that the infants were elect , yet i do not say , that christ was displeased with the disciples for being ignorant of their election and justification , and for that reason not admitting them to be blessed by him , but for that knowing christ was the great prophet , who was sent to bless , they did hinder those that were brought to be blessed from access to him . as for mr. bls. question , who say that the covenant of grace without any other command is a command to baptize infants , i think mr. stephens said it when he made a convertibility between the word of promise , and the word of command ; and whereas mr. bl. saith , if christ had never given a command for it , neither old nor young ought to have been baptized , it is true ; nor in my speech of his , and mr. stephens tenet did i mean when i said [ without any other command ] to exclude the institution of baptism , but it being supposed to be instituted by christ , paedobaptists do frequently prove a command to baptise infants by vertue of being in covenant , without any particular command of baptizing them , or any other description that comprehends them , as mr. marshalls first argument in his sermon , mr. bls. second argument , vindic. foed . chap. . sect . . s●●w . mr. geree calls denying infant-baptism , a defalking the covenant , and mr. bl. himself maintains the third speech , that the command to baptize disciples is all one as to command to baptize persons in covenant , when he saith , p. . every disciple is in covenant , and everyone in covenant is a disciple and for his arguments asserting that infants are of christs disciples what i have met with either are answered already in the second part of this review , or will be answered in this part ( i● god permit ) my conceit being still more confirmed by fuller examination of them , that they are very frivolous . sect . xx. the exceptions which in the first part of my review , sect . . are made against the proof of connexion between the covenant and initial seal , are confirmed against mr. blake , vindic . foed . . ch . sect . . mr. bl. proceeds to vindicate the proofs for the reality of connexion between the covenant and initial seal from gen. . and acts . , . from my answers . and to my answer that the particle rendered [ therefore gen. . . ] may be rendered [ and , or , but thou ] he saith , . we have no reason but that it may be an illative as well as a copulative ; and being an illative particle , he hath no exception against the strength of it . whereto i reply : there need be no reason given , why it should be read [ and or but ] and not [ therefore ] but this , that either of those are the usual acceptions of the particle , that [ and ] is the most frequent use of it , that it may well be so in that place , and that learned interpreters do so render it . which being not denyed , there is no strength in that proof which is made barely from the term [ therefore gen. . . ] to infer that to them belongeth the initial seal , whether of the jewish or the christian church , who have interest or title to the covenant of grace . for he that will prove from it , must assert that it must be rendered [ therefore ] for a certain conclusion cannot be inferred from an uncertain medium . whereas mr : bl. only asserts , it may be an illative as well as a copulative particle , and not that it must be , he intimates a grant of what i answer , that it may be a copulative as well as an illative particle , what he adds , that it being an illative particle , i have no exception against the strength of it , is manifestly untrue , sith i added three more exceptions against the proof of that proposition from thence . but master blake proves the same from verse . taking in acts . . and would have me at more leisure find answer to this argument . that which god himself calls by the name of a covenant ought not to be separated from it : but god calls circumcision by the name of a covenant ; ergo they ought not to be separated . to which i answer , first , if the conclusion be good , then circumcision and the covenant ought not to be separated ; but the covenant according to master marshall , master blake , &c. remains the same ; therfore according to master blake circumcision ought to remain still to our children , they being in covenant . secondly , if the conclusion were good , then the females and males afore the eight day being in covenant must be circumcised : thirdly , the conclusion is neither of those propositions , which were to be proved , to wit , . that the reason why abrahams infants were to be circumcised , was their interest in the covenant ▪ for though it were granted that circumcision and the covenant ought not to be separated , yet it proves not the reason of this conjunction to be from interest in the covenant , sith it may be , yea , is indeed to be deduced from the command . . to them belongeth the initial seal , whether of the jewish or christian church , who have interest or title to the covenant of grace . for the conclusion of mr. bl. doth not say any thing at all concerning the initial seal of the christian church , but only of circumcision . fourthly , to his syllogism i answer , . that god calls circumcision the covenant only by a metonymia of the thing signified for the sign . . that [ ought not to be separated from it ] may be understood of every person that hath interest in the covenant , or of every person to whom it is commanded , and when it is not dispensed with : in the former sense i deny the major , it is not true , that what god himself calls by the name of a covenant ought not to be separated from it , or that gods calling any sign the covenant , proves that all in covenant are to have that sign on them . for neither was it true of circumcision , sith neither were males afore the eight day or females in covenant , nor any in the wilderness to be circumcised , god either not commanding it , or dispensing with the observation of it ; nor is it true of any other sign called the covenant ( if there be any ) without gods command undispensed with . mr. blake saith further , . let him consider the relation in which the apostle puts this sacrament of circumcision to the covenant rom. . . an instituted appointed sign and seal is not to be divided from that which it signifies , and seal is not to be divided from that which it signifies and seals ; circumcision was an instituted appointed sign and seal of the covenant ; therefore it is not to be divided from it . answ. . neither doth the apostle , rom. . . make circumcision the sign and seal of the covenant mentioned gen. . nor of any covenant to be kept for the time to come , but of a benefit abraham had before obtained gen. . . to wit , righteousness by faith , being yet uncircumcised , nor is any ones circumcision besides abrahams , on his own person , called , the seal of the righteousness of faith . . the conclusion is , neither of the propositions to be proved , that the reason why abrahams infants were to be circumcised , was their interest in the covenant , that to them belongeth the initial seal , whether of the jewish , or the christian church , who have interest or title to the covenant of grace . . the major proposition is true in this sense , an instituted appointed sign and seal , is not to be divided in our conceit of it , from that object or thing which it signifies or seals . but in this sense the conclusion would be true only of an intellectual division from the object , which is nothing to the purpose . that sense in which it would be to his purpose is this , an instituted appointed sign and seal , is not to be divided , that is , not to be withheld or denied to any person or subject , who hath by promise or possession interest in the thing signifyed and sealed by that sign . but in this sense it is false , for circumcision was not to be to any female , to whom yet the promise of canaan signified by it , belonged ; nor indeed doth any such sign belong to any person meerly from interest in the thing signified , but from the command and will of the appointer . i said if [ therefore gen. . . ] were allowed to be the best reading , yet that the inference , v. . should be made from the promise only , v. . and not as well , if not rather from the promise , verse . i find no sufficient reason given . to this master blake replies , this reference engageth me , . in a contradiction to my self , exercit. page . the promise of the gospel was confirmed to abraham by the sign of circumcision , and that the covenant made with abraham gen. . was a mixt covenant . . in a contradiction to the apostle , who makes circumcision a sign and seal , not alone of the land of canaan , but of the righteousness of faith . answ. either i have lost all my skill in logick , or else there is not the least colour of this charge , but mr. blake writes as one that scribles any thing that comes first into his fancy . a contradiction is of two propositions opposite in quantity and quality , the one universal , the other particular ; the one affirmative , the other negative , my propositions are . if it were granted that [ therfore gen. . . ] is the best reading ; yet that the inference verse . should be made from the promise onely , verse . and not as well , if not rather from the promise verse . i find no sufficient reason given ; the promise of the gospel was confirmed to abraham by the sign of circumcision , the covenant gen. . was a mixt covenant made up of spiritual and temporal mercies : the apostle rom. . . saith abraham received the sign of circumcision a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised . if master blake shew in these propositions i will not say contradiction onely the greatest of oppositions , but any contrariety at all , let me be taken for a heedless scribler ; if not , let master blake bear the blame . his other words [ all that know the nature of covenants , and use of seals know that the seal ratifies all that the covenant contains . but the covenant ( master tombs being judge ) contained not barely the promise of the land of canaan , and therefore the reference must carry it further than the land of canaan ] what are they but a grant of my exception , that the reference gen. . . must be not onely to the promise verse . as if infants were circumcised meerly because of the promise , i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed , but also to the promise verse . and that they were circumcised also because of that promise of the land of canaan , which belongs not to us , and therefore the reason of circumcision of infants from the covenant gen. . can be no rule to us to whom some of those promises belong not . if the seal ratifies all that the covenant contains , then it ratifies the promise of the land of canaan , and in respect of that it was to abrahams infants , which not belonging to our infants the reason of circumcising infants , if it be taken from the covenant , it will not pertain to our infants to whom that promise belongs not . i said , if it were yielded that the inference were made peculiarly from the promise , verse . to be a god to abraham and his seed ; it must be proved , that every believers infant-child is abrahams seed , afore it be proved the promise belongs to them . to this master blake saith , it must either be proved that they are abrahams children , or ●ave the privilege of the children of abraham , which from genesis . . rom. . . is sufficiently proved , especially being confirmed by those texts that carry the covenant in gospel times to the issue . answ. what privilege of the children of abraham he should mean , except the promise , i will be a god to them , which should belong to every believers infant child , i understand not . the privilege of circumcision , or visible church-membership in the christian church is neither inferred from the promise gen. . . nor from genesis . . rom. . . nor is there one text that carries the covenant in gospel times , i mean that covenant of which christ is mediator , mentioned heb. . . heb. . . ( besides which i know no covenant in gospel times ) to the issue , that is , all the natural infant-issue of every believer , and that neither those texts mentioned , nor any other produced by mr. bl. mr. m. mr. cobbet , or any other prove it , will be shewed in that which follows . for present my speech is right , the promise is not , i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed , and to him that hath the privilege of thy children . this is master blakes addition to the text. and therefore no man can prove the promise belongs to the infant-child of a believer , till he be proved to be abrahams seed : whatsoever privilege of abrahams children , any child may have , yet from that promise none can claim privilege , but abraham and his seed , sith the promise is made to no other , and therefore no child of ours can claim an interest in that promise till he be abrahams seed , which master blakes shift doth no whit avoid . to my exception , that the covenant was not made to every child of abraham , he saith , though it were true , yet it would nor serve my purpose , provided , that we in gospel times are under the same covenant as was isaac ; if some of abrahams children were left out , that concerns not us , so that we are taken in . but i reply , sure if it were true , it were much to my purpose to shew the insufficiency of the paedobaptists inference , from gen. . . that every child of a gentile believer is not in covenant by vertue of that promise , if it be true that the covenant was not made to every child of abraham . no paedobaptist hitherto that i know hath had the face to avouch that our children by vertue of that promise are more in covenant than abraham children ; master bl. himself saith , to make the inference good from gen. . . that believers children by virtue of that promise have title to the initial seal , it must either be proved that they are abrahams children , or have the privilege of abrahams children ; if then the covenant was not made to every child of abraham , then every child of abraham had not the privilege by the covenant , and then if it were granted that our children by that covenant had the privilege of abrahams child , yet it could not be proved thence , that every child of ours hath the privilege of the covenant , sith every child of abraham had it not . nor doth mr. bls. proviso at all help him . for . it being granted , that we in gospel-times are under the same covenant as was isaac , and that we are taken in , ( though without the limitations , first of the covenant onely , as it contains promises of saving grace ; secondly , onely of true believers before god , i deny it ) yet it follows not that our children are taken in . . nor if it were true , that our children are taken in , doth it follow that all our children are taken in , by vertue of that promise gen. . . sith neither all abrahams children , nor all isaacs children were taken in by it , esau being expressly excluded , rom. , , , . and elsewhere , nor doth god stile himself the god of esau as he did of jacob. but mr. blake saith , my instance from gen. . . heb. . . is very weak to prove , that the covenant was not made to every child of abraham , ishmael himself was in covenant , though not established in covenant ( as god there , and verse . promised concerning isaac ) nor his seed never received , appears not alone by the sign and seal which he received vers . . which yet is sufficient ( for god to seal to a blank is very strange ; to sign a covenant to a man never in covenant ) but also from gal. . . what saith the scripture ? cast out the bond-woman , and her son , for the son of the bond woman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman a man cast out of covenant , was before casting out in covenant ; ejection supposes admission , unless we will give way to mr tombs his dream of ejection by non-admission . he was cast out after the time of the solemnity of his admission by circumcision , as may be seen , gen. . answ. the apostle rom. . answering the objection , that if the jews were rejected from being the children of god then the promise falls , or takes not effect , which god made to abraham and his seed to be a god to them , answers verse , , , in these express words , neither because they are the seed of abraham are they all children , but in isaac shall thy seed be called , that is , they which are children of the flesh , these are not the children of god : but the children of the promise , are counted for the seed : for this ●is the word of promise , at this time will i come , and sarah shall have a son. which words if they do not affirm , that the promise or covenant , gen. . . was not made to all abrahams seed , and particularly that it was not made to ishmael , i cannot perceive any pertinency in the apostles speech to the answering the objection made , nor know how to understand his words , nor do i remember that i ever met with an interpreter , which did not thence conceive , that the apostle in those words did assert , that the promise or covenant was not made to ishmael . some i have produced exam. part . s. . so conceiving , and many more might be alleged if it were necessary . but the words of god to abraham , gen. . , , . do sufficiently prove , that the covenant gen. . . was not made to ishmael , and therefore he was not in covenant by gods act of promise . for when abraham upon gods promise concerning sarah and her son , ver . , . had laughed verse . and petitioned for ishmael , verse . god answers verse . by repeating his promise concerning isaac , and saith , he would establish his covenant with him for an everlasting covenant , and with his seed after him , verse . then tells him he heard him concerning ishmael , and recites what he would do for him ; which expresseth how far he had heard his petition . and then follows verse . but my covenant will i establish with isaac , which b●ing adversative hath this plain sense , that he would do that for ishmael which he had expressed , verse . but he would establish his covenant , that is , confirm and perform what he had promised before verse , . in isaac not in ishmael ; he promised not to be a god to abraham and his seed , by ishmael in their generations , nor to give them the land of canaan . as for what master blake saith , that ishmael himself was in covenant , though not established in covenant ; it seems to intimate that he conceives , that god made the covenant to him , but did not establish it . but sure god makes no covenant with any which he doth not establish ; if he did , he should not be true . nor is there any such emphasis in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i will establish , which doth intimate , that the covenant was made to ishmael , but established , that is , confirmed , and to be certainly performed onely to isaac , for the phrase used elsewhere , gen. . , . doth express no more than is meant v. . this is the token of the covenant i make between , me and you . as for master blakes proof that ishmael was in covenant , because he was circumcised , gen. . . it rests upon these unproved false suppositions . . that circumcision was appointed to men because they were in covenant with god. . that god did by circumcision sign the covenant to him that was circumcised· . that every one that was appointed by god to be circumcised was in covenant . as for the speech that god doth not seal to a blank , it is a speech the scripture useth not , and it having various senses may be true in some sense , in other false . a blank is such a paper as hath no writing in it , or wherein there is some empty space left to write more in , whether persons names , or promises , or other matter . by gods sealing mr. bl. means the using of circumcision , baptism , the passeover , the lords supper , according to gods appointment . that which he conceives to be sealed thereby is the covenant , gen. . . which he makes all one with the covenant of grace , and by proving every sacrament to be a seal of the covenant of grace , from rom. . . his meaning should be , that god seals in the administrators right use of every sacrament to every person , that he is in covenant , that he hath the righteousness of faith , else god should seal to a blank . but in that sense i do aver it to be most true , that god doth seal to a blank , that is , that many thousands had circumcision , the passeover , baptism , and the lords supper , according to gods institution and appointment , who were never in covenant with god , nor did god seal , that is , assure to them their interest in the covenant , genesis . or the covenant of grace in gospel times , or the righteousness of faith . but in this sense i grant it to be true that god doth not seal to a blank , that is , when he appoints any sign or seal of a covenant , he doth not appoint it a sign and seal of a covenant that hath no promises , or wherein the persons to whom , and the promises are not sufficiently exprest , yet he doth command that sign to be used upon persons to whom is no promise in that covenant , as well as those to whom it is made , yea the using it on one person may seal to thousands , who are not to have it on their own persons , as the circumcising of abraham himself was a seal of the righteousness of faith to all believers of the gentiles , who were not to be circumcised . and if every ones circumcision should seal to him , the righteousness of faith , then circumcision should by gods appointment seal that which is not true , which is not to be said of god. nor doth mr. blake prove from galatians . . that ishmael was first in covenant , because he was after cast out ; for the casting out is not appointed to be out of the covenant , for that abraham could not do , to whom this speech is directed , it is god that puts in and out of his covenant , but the casting out is out of abrahams family , which was to be done by abraham . if it be replyed , that this was a sign of casting out of covenant , and therefore supposed he was in covenant , i answer so it was a sign of casting out of the inheritance , out of the righteousness of faith , out of the kingdom of heaven , which yet neither he , nor those whom he typified , and so were cast out with him , ever had . what he calls my dream of ejection by non-admission , doth but shew mr. blakes own oscitancy . for matthew . . it is said , the children of the kingdome , that is , the jews shall be cast out , to wit , of the kingdom of heaven , where abraham , and isaac , and jacob sit down , into outer darknesse ; and yet those children of the kingdom , were never in the kingdom of heaven , nor ever should be . ishmaels casting out after the time of the solemnity of his admission by circumcision , doth not prove he was in covenant before . neither circumcision , nor baptism , doth admit men into covenant with god. if they did , then administrators could put men in and out of covenant with god ; but that is gods prerogative , not in mans power . even according to paedobaptists suppositions , persons are first to be in covenant afore they are to be baptized , therfore baptism doth not admit them into covenant . master blake addes ; for that of hebrews . . it is a mystery , what he will make of it , unlesse he will conclude , that because abraham sojourned in the land of promise , that therefore none were in covenant , that were not taken into that land , so moses and aaron will be found out of covenant . to which i reply . the mystery might have been unveiled , if mr. blake had heeded that the author of that epistle calls onely isaac and jacob of those that dwelt with abraham in tents , heirs with him of the same promise , therefore ishmael and esau were not heirs with him of the same promise , though he dwelt in tents with them , and consequently were not in the covenant , or had not the covenant or promise of abraham made to them . upon those words of mine ; as for a visible church-seed of abraham , that is neither his seed by nature , nor by saving faith , nor by excellency , in whom the nations of the earth should be blessed , to wit , christ , i know none such in scripture , though some men have fancied such a kind of church-seed , as it is called . master blake thus animadverts . i know not how saving faith comes in , when a faith of profession will serve the turn . abrahams seed had circumcision as a seal of the righteousness of faith , when their parents had no more than a faith of profession . to which i reply , a meer faith of profession will not serve turn to make any gentile to be rightly according to the scripture termed abrahams seed . none of them in scripture are counted abrahams seed , but either true believers before god , or elect persons . no where doth the scripture say , that the circumcision which any of abrahams seed had was as a seal of the righteousness of faith to them , when their parents were true believers , much less when their parents had no more than a faith of profession . mr. blakes talk , that all that which my three former exceptions gainsaid is made good , is but vain , as the rest of his arguing . let us here see what he addes further . i had said , lastly , were all these things yielded , yet the proposition could not be made good from hence , sith the inference is not concerning title or right of infants to the initial seal , as if the covenant or promise of it self , did give that , but the inference is concerning abrahams duty , that therefore he should be the more ingaged to circumcise his posterity . hereupon mr. blake tells me , i should rather have left this to my adversaries for the strengthening of their proposition , than have made use of it my self for refutation of it . it was abrahams duty to give them according to gods command the initial seal ▪ in this master tombs and we are agreed ; whether it will thence follow that they had right and title to it , or without right , let the reader determine . answ. the adversaries propositions to be refuted were , first , that the reason why abrahams infants were to be circumcised , was their interest in the covenant , which they would gather from gen. . , and . put together ; secondly , that to them belongeth the initial seal , whether of the jewish or christian church , who have interest or title to the covenant of grace . but if the inference be not of title or right in the persons to be circumcised , but of duty in the administrator , and the propositions be of title or right from the covenant , and not of duty , the adversaries propositions are not rightly gathered from that inference , which is not concerning right or title but duty . as for master blakes jeer rather than answer , it is unworthy a serious sober man. for my speech did not intimate that the infants were circumcised without right or title , but that the inference , gen. . . was of duty , not of title or right , and that what title the infants had to circumcision it was not , as paedobaptists suppose , from the interest in the covenant which the circumcised had , but the command of god to the circumciser , and therefore there is not any connexion between interest in the covenant and title or right to the initial seal without the command , nor this proposition true . all they who are in covenant are to be sealed with the initial seal , unless this limitation be added , when it is commanded . now if this limitation be put , then , though the infants of believers were granted to be in covenant , yet they are not to be baptized , till over and besides their being in covenant a command for their baptism be shewed , which hath not been yet , nor i think ever will be . there are some more of mr. blakes jeers or flirts rather than sober and serlous answers yet remaining . to what i said , that abraham was engaged to circumcise only those that are males , and not afore eight daies , and not onely those that were from himself , but also all in his house , whose children soever they were , which apparently shews that the giving circumcision was not commensurate to the persons interest in the covenant , but it was to be given to persons as well out of covenant as in , if of abrahams house , and not to all that were in the covenant , to wit , females : which doth cleerly prove that right to the initial seal , as it is called , of circumcision did not belong to persons by vertue of the covenant , but by force of the command , mr. blake in his flirting fashion thus speaks . if he can prove that abraham kept idolaters in his house , professedly worshipping a false god , and gave circumcision to them in that faith and way of worship ; it would prove that a man might have the seal , and not be in covenant . and it will prove a man might have the seal , and not be in covenant , though i cannot prove any idolater in abrahams house , if i can prove there were or might be infants or young persons who were children of idolaters , for such were not in covenant as the seed of believers , or by their own profession . but , saith he , it would not prove that he might be in covenant , and be denied the seal . true , but this that infant-males under eight daies old , and females in covenant might be denyed the seal , would prove it . and then , saith mr. bl. infant-baptism might be of easier proof . though they were not in covenant , though they were not holy , yet they might be baptized . i reply , i grant that persons in covenant might be denyed circumcision , but think infant-baptism never a whit the easier proved . i ft-circumcision is commanded of all in abrahams house , whether in covenant or no , but baptism to none because he is in covenant , or holy , but because a disciple , which is not true of any infant ordinarily . but , saith master blake , i will not yield so much ; i do not believe that abraham carried circumcision beyond the line of the covenant , and that he had those in his house which were aliens from god ; seeing i find that testimony of the lord concerning him , genesis chap. . verse . and find that resolution of joshua , joshua chap. . verse , . i believe abraham catechized all he took in as heathens , and did not circumcise them as heathens . answ. i believe he did not circumcise them as heathens , but as his own bought with his money , and of his house , and if he bought any infants , or young children ( which was then , and hath been since usual , where men and women are sold as slaves ) he did circumcise infant or young males of heathen idolaters . for the command of god was he should , and yet those infant or young males of heathen idolaters could not be catechized , nor were in covenant , either by their own profession , or their parents right , or any promise of god to them ; and therefore circumcision in that case must be carried beyond the line of the covenant . to what i added of master marshalls confession , that he granted the formal reason of the jews , being circumcised , was the command , and the covenant he makes only a motive , defence page . master blake speaks thus . i wonder what need there is of an argument to force such a confession . the reason i say , why jews were circumcised , and christians baptized , is the command ; were there a thousand covenants and no institution of a sign or seal , such a sign or seal , there could have been no circumcision , no baptism . the command is the ground , and the covenant is the directory to whom application is to be made : we say , all in covenant are entituled to the seal for admission ; but we presuppose an institution . i reply , if the formal reason why the jews were circumcised were the command , and the covenant onely the motive , then the command was the differencing reason ; for the form distinguisheth , and the formal reason is the reason which differenceth . motives are not directions what to do , but commands , the same motive may be to contrary commands . the command is the directory to whom application is to be made both of circumcision and baptism . the command doth express not only the act to be done , but also the persons to whom . the covenant is no directory to whom circumcision , or baptism is to be applyed . the whole covenant of circumcision is expressed , genesis . , , , , . but there is not a word who are to be circumcised , but after . there is not the least hint in the institution of baptism , matthew chap. . verse . mark chap. . verse . of any covenant god makes to man. to imagine god commanded circumcision and baptism , and yet not to tell who are to be baptized or circumcised but from the covenant , which no man knoweth to whom it belongs , is to imagine god gives a blind command , which no wise master would do . it is not true , all in covenant are entitled to the seal for admission , for then females , males under eight daies old , believers out of abrahams house , proselytes of the gate had been entitled to circumcision , for they were in covenant as well as those who were to be circumcised . and it is as certain on the other side that ishmael , esau , the infants of strangers bought by abraham , with his money , were to be circumcised , though they were not in covenant , and therefore i inferre it as certain , that being in covenant or interest in the covenant , or having the promises of the covenant , genesis . , , , , . or the new covenant in christs blood heb. . , , . and . , . or any other evangelical covenant , all , or some of them made to a person did not intitle a person to circumcision , nor doth now to baptism , nor can be without the command or institution of christ , or primitive example , a rule , directory or sufficient warrant for any to baptize a person , nor acquit him from profaning and abusing baptism , and therefore there is no such reality of connexion between the covenant and seal , that this proposition is thereby proved true , all in covenant are intitled to the seal for admission : or this false , some of those who are not in covenant are intitled to the seal ( as they call it ) for admission : and master blakes censure of my exceptions as frivolous trifles shews his weaknesse in disputes , there being very little in his arguings or answers but flirts , quips , dictates and impertinencies . what he addes of my grants discovers the like vanity ; for though i say that believers , and disciples are to be baptized , not barely on their faith and knowledge , but upon the command to baptize such , yet how it follows which mr. blake saith , so that the command is with reference to the covenant , with reference to the interest in the covenant , is to me a meer inconsequence , unless he imagine the command and covenant all one , which to assert were ridiculous . and who will believe that i attribute as much to the covenant respective to this seal , when i say examen page the seventieth eight , that the common privilege of circumcision belonging to the jews , did not arise from the covenant of grace , according to the substance of it , but according to the administration that then was , as master marshall to the command , when he said , the command was the formal reason of the jews being circumcised . when i do not at all make circumcision to arise from the covenant as any reason of the duty , much less the formal reason of it , but as from the occasion of it , whereas master m. makes the command , the very formal reason of the existence of the duty . sect . xxi . the ten exceptions of the first part of my review against paedobaptists exposition and allegation of acts . , . for the connexion between covenant and seal are vindicated from master blakes answer , vindic. foederis , ch . , . mr. blake addes some snatches against my ten exceptions to paedobaptists exposition of acts . , . to the first which was , that the promise is not proved to be that genesis . . and acts . . acts . . lead us to some other , he saith , when a promise is mentioned and a seal , any man but he will presently understand that promise , which is ratified by such a seal . to which i reply . where is there mention of a seal ? or of a promise sealed or to be sealed as he speaks ? if there were , is there no other promise to be ratified by such a seal but that ? did circumcision seal no other promise but that ? doth the scripture give the least hint of sealing that promise , gen. . . understood as paedobaptists expound it , that god would be a god to every believer , and to his seed , in respect at least of visible church-membership , yea though he be a believer onely by profession ? they use to tell us that circumcision seals the righteousness of faith , from rom. . . but to seal this and to seal the promise , gen. . . ( as paedobaptists do rack rather than expound the words ) are as much different as are the payment of gold , and lead . have not learned men expounded the promise , some of that mentioned , ver . . of the gift of the holy ghost , some of other promises ? why then doth master blake so ineptly intimate me to be singular in my conceit ? why doth he so falsely insinuate that no more than bare words can be found for my exposition ; when i bring two texts to confirm it , and mr. bl. saith not a word to infirm my alleging them ? what he refers me to in his . ch . and mr. cobbet shall be examined in its place . to the second , which was that [ the promise is acts . ] is expounded , . of a promise of a thing to come , whereas it may seem rather from acts . , . to be meant of a promise already fulfilled . . that the thing to come promised was some outward privilege to be conferred on them and their children . mr. blake saith , yet he quotes no man for this exposition of a thing to come , but on the contrary quotes mr. cobbet in the margin against it . it is meant of a present right ; for as yet they were not broken off from the olive , nor gentiles graffed in . answ. . that paedobaptists do understand the words acts . . of a promise of some thing to come appears , . in that many of them make it the same with this , i will be a god to a believer , and his seed . so master marshall defence page . mr. drew ubi supra , mr. blake out of calvin , vindic. foederis page . and others . now a promise that he will be a god to them is a promise of a thing to come . . in that they disclaim the supplement [ is fulfilled ] as mr. cobbet just. vindic. part . ch . . sect . . and usually , as beza , the english directory , mr. blake and others expound it , the promise is made , which proves it is , according to them , meant of something to come , not of a thing past , for if it were it should be a promise fulfilled . mr. cobbet , it is true , saith , the promise in praesenti is to you in respect of external right ; but then he must needs mean it , that the promise was in praesenti made of external right to come , or else he must mean it of a promise fulfilled , which he denies . and for the other , that paedobaptists do expound it of outward privilege to be conferred on them , and their children , besides mr. cobbets words cited , and other in the same section ; mr. hudson vindic. page . saith , this promise acts . . is that external covenant to which baptism doth belong , and the ashford disputants for infants-baptism , grant , that the promise of the eternal inheritance , life and salvation is not made , much less made good to any upon terms of the parents faith , but upon our own personal belief , and obedience , but the promise of outward privileges , and of right to participation of ordinances as to be baptized , and inchurcht , this belongs to children upon their parents faith , and in this last sense it is , that peter saies the promise is to you and your children , &c. i. e. you and yours have the privilege of right to baptism . to my third exception , that [ to you ] is taken , as if it were meant of those persons to whom he spake , as then believers , and under that formal consideration , mr. blake saith , i do not interprete it of any present explicit faith in christ as the messiah ; but now this conviction , that so evidently appeared , did evidence them to be in an hopeful way , and with that scribe not to be far from the kingdom of god , and therefore he takes his opportunity , and presseth it on to come into the way of believers in christ jesus . answ. this grant is sufficient , first , to justify my exception , secondly , to overthrow mr. blakes , and other paedobaptists inference from this text , . that in this text the covenant in new testament times is held out in this latitude to believers and their seed , vindic. foed . chap. . for if they had not any present , explicit faith in christ as the messiah , then they were not believers . . that this speech [ the promise is to you , and to your children ] is equipollent to this promise [ i will be a god to believers and their seed ] for if they were not then believers , it had been false if the apostle had said as they would have him , the promise that god will be a god to believers and their seed , is in praesenti to you and your children , when they were not believers . to my fourth exception , that [ your children ] is expounded of their infant-children ; yea it is carried as if of them onely , he saith , to this is sufficient spoken , ch . . i shall therefore look back to that chapter , page . he saith , acts . . an effectual call cannot be mean● ( which the apostle calls a call according to purpose ) proper onely to the elect , so the visible seal would be limitted to invisible members . but this is not true , for then the being of the promise would be limitted to them , not baptism . it is false which master blake supposeth , that baptism is limitted to them to whom the promise is , and that the being of the promise to a person intitles to his baptism . he saith ; it is a call unto such a church-state as the whole ●●tion of the jews did then enjoy as the first-born in the family . to which i reply , the whole nation of the jews enjoyed a church-state , by which they were joyned in one national society under an high priest , and other priest offering sacrifice ; at the temple , whither the church-members were to bring their gifts , and to observe the levitical rites . it is a dotage with a witness to conceive that peter meant acts . . that the promise was to them or those afar off , whom god should call to this church-state . it is certain that the calling of the jewes and gentiles , by the gospel was to remove them out of that society , and church-state , as appears by v. . nor did the apostles ever associate the christians to the jews as proselytes to them , nor did they ever draw them into any such church-state , as the jews had to take in a whole nation , city , or family , comprehending infants into the christian church , but onely so many as believed as v. . , &c. shew : yea to call them to such a church-state as the jewes had , had been to call them not to baptism , but to circumcision and the observation of moses law. the call of god , acts . . is no other then what is mentioned in the new testament to be saints , to his kingdom and glory , to the fellowship of his sonne by his word and spirit , or one of them at least , yea the promise being meant of christ , which master blake doth not deny , as will appear in that which followes , it can be expounded onely of those that are effectually called , sith to them onely christ belongs : on the other side to understand it of a call unto such a church-state as the whole nation of the jewes did then enjoy , is to limit the promise to jewish proselytes , or to national christian churches , which is a wild conceit , unfit for a serious and sober divine . but master blake goeth on from whence this argument may be drawn , those to whom the covenant of promise appertains have a right to baptism , but the covenant of promise appertains to men in a church-state and condition and to their children . the major cannot be denied by any that will not make themselves the apostles opposites . the minor proposition is now onely to be considered , that the covenant of promise to men in a church-state and condition is in that latitude as to comprize their children , for which the words of the apostle are full and clear . to you is the promise made , and to your children , on which calvin rightly comments . peter observes ( saith he ) a due order when he assignes the first place of honour to the jewes , that it takes in children , it depends on the word of promise gen. . . i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , where god joynes children with their parents in the priviledge of adoption , where adoption is taken in the apostles sense , rom. . . to the inheritance of privileges belonging to all church-members , as he after explains himself . ans. the major is ambiguous , and in some sense it is true , and in some sense false . it is true in this sense , those to whom the covenant of promise by their beleiving , and covenanting to be christs disciples , appertains , have a right to baptism . but in this sense ( in which master blake seems to understand it , for he comprehends infants in the covenant ) those to whom the covenant of promise by gods acts of promise , whether of saving grace or church-privileges , appertains without their personal believing or covenanting , have a right to baptism , it is false . nor is the contradictory thereto opposit to any thing the apostle saith , who doth indeed exhort to repentance and baptism , but doth not from the promise without each persons repentance ascribe a right to baptism to any parent or child , the promise is not urged by him to declare a right to baptism of it self without repentance , but to encourage to repentance and baptism into the name of christ as their duty . the minor also is ambiguous , it being uncertain what he means by the covenant of promise , whether the covenant whereby the persons promise to god , or god to them ; and if of this latter , whether the covenant wherein god promiseth to them , be of saving-graces , or of church-priviledges ; if he mean it of the former , & understand it universally , it is manifestly false , contrary to scripture and experience ; whether the church-state be in respect of the visible or invisible church , there is no such promise of god , that if the parent be in a church-state or condition , so as to be elect , or true beleiver , much less if he be onely in the visible church , that his child , as his child , shall be in the covenant of saving grace , have christ , his spirit , remission of sins , and life everlasting by him . nor is it true of the promise of church-priviledges , that god will take the child of him who is in a church-state and condition for a visible church-member , capable of the initial seat , ( because he is his child ) without the childs personal faith and repentance . nor do i know of any covenant of promise now under the gospel of such outward church-priviledges , but take it to be a faction of paedobaptists ; nor is there in the apostles words any thing to prove the minor. for neither doth the text say , the promise is that , gen. . . nor that it is made , but onely [ is ] nor doth say , it is to you as in a church-state and condition , and to your children as the children of men in a church-state and condition . and for calvins words neither are they plain for mr. bls. purpose , nor if they were , should i take them for an oracle , but should expect better proof then his or master bls. sayings . as for the adoption , rom. . . it is clear from the text , and confessed by master rutherford , due right of presbytery ch . . sect. . pag. . to have been a prerogative of the jewes , as was the giving of the law , the descent of christ , &c. and therefore it is untruly suggested by master blake to be an inheritance of priviledges belonging to all church-members , or that the apostle doth after so explain himself ; and master blake continues his want of dictating without proofe . he next takes on him to answer objections . one is , that the children are the same with sons and daughters mentioned , v. . from joel . . and consequently the promise is of the spirit of prophecy , and appertaining to none but those of age and capacity for prophecy . to which he answers , . that the promise cannot be that extraordinary gift of the holy ghost in that visibie way , because it is enlarged to all the lord shall call : but all these have not the holy ghost in that extraordinary way , nor any promise of it . i confess , this answer is good against those that expound the words thus , the promise of the gift of prophecy , joel . . is to you and your children , and to all afar off , as the subjects to whom this gift is promised ; for then it would not be true , sith all had not that gift , cor. . . yet it may be true in this sense . the promise of the gift of the spirit in that visible way , is fulfilled to you and your children , and all afar off called by god , as the persons who had benefit by it , and so were the finis cui of those gifts promised as having the benefit of them , though not the subjects in whom they were . . saith master blake , however the promise be extended , yet that promise is on condition of their baptism , and is an encouragement to baptism , and in that latitude as they had formerly known the command of circumcision . to which i say , . if the promise be interpreted so as to belong to all that are believers , and call on the name of the lord , as here followes , then the promise is to the elect onely , and the call into the visible church , which master blake before denied . . though extraordinary gifts were given after baptism often , yet they were given also before , acts . , &c. and therefore i doubt it is not true which master blake saith , that promise of extraordinary gifts is on condition of their baptism , nor doth the text assert it . , as the promise is an encouragement to baptism , so it is to repentance , which is first required afore baptism by the apostle . . there is not a word in the text , acts . , . which yields a proofe of any of those positions which master bl. so importunely obtrudes , . that baptism is there urged as a sign and seal of the promise . . that they were encouraged to baptism in that latitude as they had formerly known the command of circumcision . , that the scripture delivereth , and the apostle urgeth the promise as to men and their posterity , to them and theirs , so as that god promiseth to be a god in covenant to his and their seed . . that the apostle holds this out to draw them on to this seal of the covenant , to accept baptism on the same terms that abraham did circumcision . but master blake his chiefest opposition about this text is against me , and therefore he bends himself against the fourth section of my exercit. and first . he excepts against my words , that the promise made ( which reading i then followed , but since like rather the supplement [ fulfilled ] is the sending of jesus christ and blessing by him , as is expounded , acts . , . acts . . rom. . , . thus i answer , it is true that jesus christ is the most eminent mercy promised , and may be called the promise virtualiter , being the ground of all promises , and therefore some interpreters have mentioned the gift of christ on this occasion . but it is plain that gods covenant and this gift are to be distinguished ; christ is promised in priority to the jew , before the gentile ; the jew then is taken into covenant before this gift of christ can be of them expected : it is therefore the covenant it self ( entred with parent and child , root and branch ) that is here meant , as calvin in the words before observes , from which the giving of christ in the flesh followes . and therefore diodati fully pitches upon the true sense of it , seeing as you are abrahams children , you are within the covenant , you ought to acknowledge christ to be the head and foundation of the covenant . the covenant i will be thy god and the god of thy seed is here meant , which from abraham had been the jewes priviledge , rom. . to which i reply , if christ may be called the promise virtually , then it is no obscuring the text , to interpret the being of the promise to them of the sending of jesus christ and blessing by him , nor doth this hinder the distinguishing of gods covenant and this gift , or the promising of christ to the jew before the gentile , or the jewes taking into covenant before this gift of christ can be expected of them , or that the giving of christ in the flesh followed the covenant it self entered with parent and child , root and branch , meaning abraham and his seed , as the apostle , gal. . . understands it ; and therefore in all this there is nothing brought by master blake , which makes void my interpretation , but confirms it rather . but for such a covenant as master blake imagines of gods being god to every believer and his infant child , in respect of church-membership in the church visible of christians , and other outward church-priviledges , i find no word in all the scripture . and for diodati his words , if he so meant what he speaks of their being in covenant , because they were abrahams children by natural descent , he answered from the sense of the place ; but master blake hath more to say to me . i had said , the limitation , as many as the lord our god shall call , shewes that the promise belongs to them , not simply as jewes , but as called of god , which is more expresly affirmed , acts . . to this master blake answers , i wonder how it came into master t. his head to call this application a limitation ; it plainly enough speaks his boldness in dealing with the scriptures ; had the apostle said , to you is the promise made , and to your seed , in case god shall give you a call , he had spoke to master t. his purpose : but saying , to you and to as many as the lord your god shall call , it plainly shewes that he does not limit , but amplifie the mercy , extending it not barely to the jewes ( who in present by reason of fruition of ordinances were a people near to the lord , psal. . . but also to the gentiles , who , ephes. . . were afarre off . to which i reply , a limitation of a proposition is the determining of it according to what the predicate agrees to the subject , or doth not agree , as keckerm . syst . log. l. . sect . . c. . and thus do the words [ as many as the lord ( not as master blake , your , but ) our god shall call ] limit the copulative proposition [ the promise is to you and to your children , and to all that are afar off ] determining to which of each of these , and in what respect the promise is to them . and to take away master blakes wonderment ( the fruit of ignorance , and often of folly ) which he and his brother baxter do often express about me , that they may describe me as some strange example of gods judgment in blasting my intellectuals , i will tell him how it came into my head to call those words a limitation of the proposition . first , the placing of the words at the end of the proposition , did give me occasion to take them for a limitation . secondly , the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as many as ] is a limitting term , appropriating the thing said to those subjects forenamed , who were so qualified as to be called by the lord. thirdly , ( which was the prime inducement ) i conceived the speech of peter had not been true without that limitation , and this i long since told master m. in my exam. part . . sect. . pag. . if the promise be of saving graces , if of christ sent , if of the outward ordinances of baptism , &c. if of the holy ghost in extraordinary gifts , it is none of these wayes true without that limitation . for neither god promised saving graces , nor outward ordinances , nor extraordinary gifts , nor sent christ to them , their children , or all that are afar off without calling them , and every of them . and but that master bls. master bs. and such like wonderers heedlesness and peevishness are no strange thing to me , i should wonder that master blake should no better heed my words in my examen , nor diodati his words ( who , he saith , fully pitches upon the true sense of it ) which in his annot. on acts. . . are these , shall call , namely by his gospel . so he doth restrain the israelites to whom the promises are directed onely to those , who by gods gift believe in christ ; see rom. . . gal. . . which had master blake faithfully set down in stead of some other words i find in him , his reader might have discerned how false it is , that the promise is to an infant child of a believer , as his child , without calling ; and have discerned that it is not my device onely , but that which others before me apprehended , and so no more boldness in my dealing with the scriptures then was meet , and the apostles words to have this plain sense , the promise is to you , being called of god ; and to your children , being called of god ; and to all afar off , being called of god ; and to no other , and to requite master blake , i may more truly say , it 's a wonder how it came into master blakes head to call this limitation an amplification . for though the words [ to all that are afar off ] contain an amplification of the mercy either to the posterity of the jewes , or to those in the dispersion , or to the gentiles ( of which i will not now dispute ) yet the words [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] are a plain limitation of his speech , as i have proved . but master blake addes of me , . in that he saith , this promise belongs to them not simply as jewes , but as called , is a full contradiction ; a jew uncalled ( at this time before the kingdome was taken from them ) is as much as a convert unconverted , or a gentile disciple undiscipled : in case he think to come off by limiting it to an effectuall call , the scripture by himself quoted doth evidently contradict it ; christ came to give them that effectuall calling , and not onely to those that were thus called . ans. master blakes charge of contradictions is as frivolous as his wonderment . master blakes conceit of a calling into such a church-state , as the whole nation of the jewes did then enjoy , is but a dream of his own , for which he hath not one scripture nor other proofe . the calling is to communion with christ , and an effectuall calling , else the proposition were not true ; nor is there any contradiction in any of the places by me quoted , to this exposition , the promise of christ is fulfilled for the remission of your sins , and your childrens , and all that are afar off , as many as the lord our god shall effectually call , and no other ; nor hath master blake shewed any . for though christ came to give effectual calling , yet it is true also , he came to give remission onely to those that were thus called ; nor is there any opposition , much less contradiction in those speeches . master blake goes on . he yet said , peter doth exhort to repentance and baptism together , and in the first place perswades to repentance , then to baptism , which shewes repentance to be in order before baptism . to which he answers , not by denying it , but by giving a reason of it , because they had crucified christ , &c. to which i reply , this grant shewes that they had not right to baptism without repentance , though the promise were to them , they were in the church-state of the jewes , &c. and consequently master blakes proposition false . those to whom the covenant of promise appertains ( in his sense ) have a right to baptism . what he addes , and yet he shewes that they and their seed are under the promise of god , and puts them into a way in acceptation of christ in the gospel-tender , in his present way of administration , to be continued his people still in covenant , and that ( as is plainly enough signified ) that they might enjoy it in their former latitude to them and to their children ; that the jewes ( even those that had not yet embraced christ ) were not yet dispossest of the promise , but stood as a people of god in visible covenant , and their children , in the sense in which master blake means is false ; and yet were it true , it is against master blakes proposition , sith notwithstanding this being in covenant , yet were they not admitted or to be admitted to baptism without repentance . he addes , master t. hath yet this evasion , and saith , the text speak● not expresly of infants , but of children indefinitely ; and if infants be not children , we will be content that they be cast out of covenant , and will hold no plea for their church-membership and baptism . ans. as infants are children , so are men and women of twenty , or more years old , and therefore the term ( children ) unless it be proved to be taken universally or particularly of infants , the covenant-state ( as they call it ) though we should grant such an estate there meant , would not be thence concluded . and yet infants were to be circumcised not simply because they were abrahams seed , nor because in covenant , but by reason of gods command . and though a woman and disciple be not synonyma , yet women being numbred among disciples , it is an express example of womens coming together to break bread , which mentions the disciples breaking bread ; nor was i at all put to it , much less hard put to it , when this came in for an answer . for without this an answer was given before to the argument , and this was added as an over-plus , and so was that which master blake nibbles at in that which followes . i had said the text speaks not of the children of the gentiles at all , ( of whom we are ) but of the children of the jews ; and therefore if that promise be extended to infants , which doth not appear , the promise is to be expounded so as to note something peculiar to the jewes infants . to this master blake thus saith , if the gospel held out any such transcending priviledges appertaining to the seed of the jewes above the gentiles , master t. may do well to produce a text for it , otherwise we shall take it for granted from saint paul , that there is none at all , that there is neither greek , nor jew , circumcision nor uncircumcision , barbarian nor scythian , bond nor free . to which i reply , there is no need i should shew any such priviledge held out in the gospel to the jewes seed above the gentiles , but that master blake should shew such priviledge as he speaks of , to the jewes seed held out in the gospel . but this i say , if he will have the text , acts. . . to be for his purpose , he must shew that the children of the gentiles ( of whom there is not a word ) are mentioned as those to whom the promise is as well as the children of the jewes , which he thus attempts . and when the apostle addes , to those that are afar off , even as many as the lord shall call , he plainly means the gentiles , as appears , comparing ephes. . and though i take not the boldness to adde to the words , and to their children , as master t. challenges doctor h. yet it is clear , that the same is understood there in reference to the children of the gentiles , that is exprest before to the children of the jewes . if any shall grant an inheritance to titius and his heirs for ever , and to caius , every one will understand that the heirs of caius are meant as well as the heirs of titius , especially if it can be proved out of the grant it self , that the priviledge conveyed to caius , is as ample as that to titius . we can prove the priviledges granted to the gentiles in the gospel to be equal to those granted to the jewes ; when the jewes children are under the promise with their parents , the children of believing gentiles cannot be excluded . to which i reply , that it appeared not plainly to beza , annot. in locum , that by those afar off , acts . . are meant the gentiles , but rather the posterity of the jewes , which should be in after generations , or those in the dispersion , among the gentiles . for it seemes unlikely that peter did then consider or declare the calling of the gentiles , who was so averse from preaching to cornelius , asts . or that it would have been born with them , when even the brethren expostulated with him for that fact , acts. . . nor do i think 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts. . . the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ephes. . . this latter noting manifestly remoteness from god in respect of knowledge and communion , the former remoteness from them to whom he spake , either in descent or distance of place . however were it resolved that the gentiles are meant , acts. . . as many interpreters conceive , yet it is too much boldness to adde to the text [ and to their children ] and not much less in master bl. that it is understood , when there is neither word in the text , nor defect of sense without it , nor any ancient copy , which necessitate that addition or supplement . and for master blakes case in law , it is not opposite . for , acts . . there is no mention of a grant to them and their heirs for ever , but only a promise to them and their children , which there is no necessity , nor i think intention in peter in those words to extend to any other then were then existent . but if it were opposite , yet so far as i know their mindes , either by such experience in law-cases , o● converse with lawyers , ( with whom i sometimes lived ) i presume they would say otherwise then master blake , that a grant of an inheritance to titius and his heirs for ever , and to caius , without mentioning his heirs , is not a grant to the heirs of caius , no not though it could be proved the priviledge conveyed to caius is as ample as that to titius . as for what master blake tells us , he and others can prove of the priviledges of the gentiles granted in the gospel equal to the jewes , i yield it , if meant of believing jewes and gentiles , and saving spititual blessings in christ , according to that , ephes. . . but meant ( as master blake would have it ) of visible church-membership , and the initial seal , i take it to be a vain brag , neither he nor any other having yet proved it , or that the jewes or gentiles children are or were universally under the pronise of the covenant of grace , which is evangelical , with their believing parents , and by reason of their faith , i know no more about acts . , . in that ch . to be answered . i return to his answer to my exceptions ch . . pag. . he thus dictates after his fashion , children as theirs whether they be called or no , is ( he knowes with us ) a contradiction ; children are called in their parents call , and we say they are in covenant , the promise is made to them , they are visible church-members till they reject the covenant , and deny their membership . to which i say , i know many things to be taken for truths and contradictions with paedobaptists , which were neither truths , nor contradictions : but this conceit that [ jewes children uncalled , as calling is meant , acts . . ] is a contradiction . i had not so mean an opinion of master blakes and other paedobaptists intellectuals , as to imagine they would own it , till master blake vented this foppery , which how vain it is was shewed above . in like manner i was secure of ever meeting with such a foolery as this of master blake , children are called in their parents call , till i read the like in his brother baxters vain-mocktitled-book plain script . proof , &c. ch . . that he that converteth the parent , maketh both him and his infants disciples : to which i have said somewhat in my review , part . . sect . . and for the other speech that they are in covenant , the promise is made to them , they are visible church-members till they reject the covenant , and deny their membership , it contains sundry inconsistencies with paedobaptists hypotheses . for first , they say , the children of believers are in covenant , and visible church-members as theirs ▪ children as theirs , whether they be called or no is ( he knowes with us ) a contradiction , saith master blake here . if so , then they are in ●ovenant , and visible church-members while theirs , quatenus ipsum includes de omni & semper . but they are so when they reject the covenant , the relation to their parents ceaseth not then ; therefore neither their church-membership , if the hypothesis be true . secondly , they suppose the visible church-membership of believers children , is by vertue of gods promise to be their god , gen. . . and this promise requires no other condition but the parents faith , no condition from the 〈◊〉 for then it could not agree to infants ; therefore if the parent be a believer 〈◊〉 the child be not a visible church-member , god keeps not his promise which he hath made , according to their hypotheses , and so they do make god a lyar , which is blasphemy . thirdly , they magnifie the priviledge of infants visible churchmembership , they enveigh against anti-paedobaptists , as robbing them thereof , and parents of their comforts , though they grant the parents as much ground of hope for them , as the paedobaptists grounds can truly give them ; and for reality of priviledge , setting aside an empty title and rite as to them in infancy , they grant them visible church-membership , when they profess the faith , which in respect of church-communion paedobaptists themselves grant them , not before ; but mock both parents and children , telling them they are in covenant , and visible church-members by their parents faith without their own , yet denying them church-communion , which is due to every visible church-member , without their own personal avouching the faith ; besides , their injurious dealing with them in their mock-baptism of them , when it is not due , nor does them any good , and denying baptism to them , yea , persecuting them for seeking it after when it is due , and might do them much good by engaging them to christ , and thereupon assure christ to be theirs . my fifth exception master blake passeth over as fore-spoken to , ch . . which hath answer before , and my sixth as falling in with my tenth , where i shall overtake him . to my seventh , wherein i excepted against master stephens for holding the command [ be baptized every one of you ] in a covenant-sense as he calls it to be , as if he had said , be baptized you and your children , which i said to be a new devised non-sense , such as we have no dictionary yet to interpret words by . to this saith master blake , i am sure here is a non-sense device , to talk of dictionaries ; does calepin or scapula , rider or thomasius help us to compare covenant and seal , promises and sacraments ? i reply , that speech is non-sense , in which the words used to signifie that which the speaker would signifie by them , do not in the use of them so signifie . but this speech [ be baptized every one of you ] doth not in the use of the words signifie [ be baptized you and your children ] therefore that speech so used in that which master stephens calls covenant-sense is non-sense . this appears by dictionaries , in none of which [ every one of you ] is as much as [ you and your children ] therefore that speech in that sense is a new devised non-sense . as for master blakes words , either they are non-sense , or as bad . for first , to talk of dictionaries is not a device , an action of the mind ; but a speech , an action of the tongue or hand ; and therefore it is non-sense to call it so . secondly , to talk of dictionaries is not non-sense ; for then all speech of dictionaries should be non-sense , and so all the verses before . r●ders and others dictionaries should be non-sense . but to speak of dictonaries otherwise then the words signifie , so as the meaning cannot be perceived by them , which he cannot say of my speech of dictionaries . as for master blakes question , it is frivolous , as much of the rest of his writing here is . for though dictionaries do not help us to compare covenant and seal , promises and sacraments , yet they do help us to know the sense of words , and discover to us the non-sense of words used otherwise then their signification is . master blake himself in the . ch . sect . . refers me to the dictionary about the word pax. to my eighth exception that there is not a word of any scruple in the text , as some have imagined , if we be baptized our selves , and not our children , they will be in worse case then in the former dispensation , in which they had the seal of the covenant ; nor is it likely that they were sollicitous about such an imaginary poor priviledge of their children . he saith , i am of his minde , that there was no such scruple in their heads . master t. his unhappy conceit of casting the seed out of the covenant was not then in being , though i think the reason he gives is little to purpose , yet i say , this scruple raised by anti-paedobaptists , and heightened by master t. as in many other , so in this text is removed . ans. my exception then stands good against those who make that scruple the occasion of peters mentioning their children . and for my reason , master blake had done better to give a reason of his censure , then barely to say he thinks it to little purpose . it is his calumny that i have any conceit of casting the seed out of the covenant , and his conceit that the scruple mentioned is in this text removed , hath been shewed to be but his dream . my ninth exception was that paedobaptists make [ for v. . ] to infer a right to baptism , whereas it infers onely a duty , which is proved in that [ v. . baptized ] is in the imperative mood . to this saith master blake , master t. does grossely abuse his judgment in this way of refutation , as though the right in which they stood , could be no topick , from which in a moral way the apostle might perswade them to baptism ; when shecaniah perswaded ezra to the reformation of the marriage of strange wives in these words : arise , for the matter belongeth to thee , ezra . . here was a motive in the moral way to call upon him to do it , and an argument inferred , that it lay upon ezra as a duty by command from god to set upon it . and to my reason he saith , he hath quite forgotten , that the words holding out their right are in the indicative mood . for the promise is to you and your children . and here is a notable correction of the apostle , he should have said , if this had been his meaning , you must be baptized ; and he sai●s , arise , and be baptized . ans. sure i am master blake doth most grossely abuse me , in insinuating as if by my refutation , the right in which they stood could be no topick , from which in a moral way the apostle might perswade them to baptism , when i proved that the apostle did not from v. . infer a right to baptism , which in a legal way they might claim , but a duty , to which in a moral way he perswades . and therefore he shootes wide from the mark , when he goes about to prove that a right may be a motive in a moral way to a duty . and yet as if he could write nothing to the point , his own allegation , ezra . . is not to his own purpose , the motive as himself alledgeth , it being not a right to a privilege ; but a command from god. the like roving talk is in his answer to my reason . for whereas i alleged that verse . a right is not inferred from verse . but a duty , because [ be baptized , v. . ] is not in the indicative , but the imperative mood , tels me the term [ is v. . ] is in the indicative mood , which is nothing to my objection , but like as in the contention between two deaf men in sir thomas mores epigram , he that was charged with theft answered , his mother was at home . the like random talk is in his insinuation of my notable correction of the apostle , who corrected not the apostle , but shewed the paedobaptists conceit incongruous to the apostles words ; he himself seems ( i think out of heedlesness ) to correct the apostle , when he speaks thus , and he ●aies , arise and be baptized , which are not peters words , acts. . . but the words of ananias to saul , acts. . . my tenth exception was , usually paedobaptists in their paraphrases put not in any thing to answer [ repent , v. . ] which is true , though master stephens be alleged in my sixth exception , as paraphrasing it by covenant , for your selves and your children , master blake grants the apostle presseth to a duty , and such as was to have repentance precedent in his then hearers : if so , then he doth not infer a right to bap●ism barely from their interest in the promise . what he saith , right and duty very well stand together , and that the apostle fitly makes use of their interest as a motive , i deny not . it is true , the apostle mentioned more to whom the promise was then , he then perswaded to repent , for he mentions the promise as pertaining to the absent , or unborn ; but he perswades none to be baptized but the penitent , nor mentions any to whom the promise was , but the called of god. to my argument from the precedency of repentance to baptism , acts. . . against infant-baptism , he answers as before , ch . . to which i have replyed before . as for master stephens his paraphrase avowed by master blake as the apostles meaning , that if the jewes who had crucified christ , would receive him as the particular messiah , the same promise should still continue to them and their children in the new dispensation , it is far from the apostles minde . for the apostle doth not make the eontinuance of the promise as the benefit consequent on their receiving christ , and the receiving of christ the condition of continuance of the promise : but the being of the promise is alleged as a thing already existent , nor is there any likelyhood that the apostle peter would urge them to so hard duties as repentance , receiving christ by so slender a reason as the continuance of the promise of visible church-membership and baptism to them and their infant children , yea , the text it self shewes that the things by which he would perswade them to receive christ , were the assurance of remission of sins , and receiving the gift of the holy ghost , and the alleging the promise , v is to take away the great objection against these great benefits from their crucifying of christ ▪ and their imprecation on them and their children , matth. . . if then master stephens build his word of command to baptize father and child , on that paraphrase , he builds on a foundation which will not hold . master blake addes ; to this the word repent refers , as may be made plain . but what he means by this assertion i do not well understand , it being ambiguous , what he means by [ this ] whether the paraphrase of master stephens , that the same promise should still continue to them and their children in the new dispensation , if they would receive jesus as the particular messiah , or the word of command to baptize father and child , and in like manner what kind of reference he means , whether as a medium to prove it , or as a motive to it . if he mean the same with that which his allegations seem to tend to , his meaning is , that the promise of visible church-state , was to the jewes as they had been formerly , if they did receive christ , and the term [ repent ] refers to it as the motive . now though i grant that the promise , acts. . . is alleged as a motive in a moral way to repentance v ▪ . yet i deny such a promise to be meant , v. . as mr. bl. and mr. stephens fancy . nor do any of mr. blakes allegatione prove it . for acts . . doth not speak of such a covenant as master blake means , but of that evangelical covenant wherein god promised christ and saving blessings by him . nor are the jews there termed children of the covenant onely , but also of the prophets . now the prophets there are the same with all the prophets , v. . and those jewes to whom , peter spake , were no otherwise their children , then in that they had been raised up of , and sent to that nation in their predecessors times , and they are in like manner called children of the covenant , because they were the posterity of those ancestors , specially abraham , to whom that covenant was made . but this doth not prove that they were then gods visible people , that the covenant of visible church-state did belong to them and their children , or that such a covenant is meant , acts . . what master blake allegeth from matth. . . matth. . . that they were in danger to be cast off , doth prove rather the contrary , thet the nation or body of the jewish people who had rejected christ , were not in covenant with god ; and although those particular persons , acts . . to whom peter spake , v. , . were more awakened then others , yet they could not be then said to be in the covenant of visible church-state , being not then believers in christ. what master blake allegeth and infers from matth. . , . luke . , . i assent to , but know not what it make● for his purpose . yea , me thinks his calling baptism to which peter exhorted , entrance into a new covenant-way , crosseth master stephens paraphrase of continuing the same promise to them and their children . in his third allegation he misreports me , as if i excluded all consideration of right in the jewes and their children from those words which are , acts . . whereas that which i said was this , that from the promise , acts . . ( what ever right be imported by it ) peter doth not infer their being baptized as a right or privilege , accruing to them in manner of a legal title and claim , but as a duty to which he perswades in a moral way . what good interpretation i give of those words , v. . suitable to peters exhortation ; i have set down , exam. pag. . review part . . pag. . and elsewhere master blake , if he could , should have overthrown it . master cobbets exception is answered in the next section . mr. bl. hath been oft told that the children are mentioned acts . . because of the imprecation , matth. . . that the words , acts . , . are carried in that way , that interest in covenant and covenant-seals in mr. bls sense formerly ran , is supposed , but not proved by him . that the jews yet persisting in their adherence to moses , not embracing christ , should be in covenant and have thereby a right to baptism , is such a dotage as me thinks master blake should disclaim . that the words of the text , acts . . hold out such a covenant-right , as master blake imagins , in scripture-language , according to the grand charter of heaven , i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , is said , but not proved by master blake . whether my exceptions against the paedobaptists exposition of acts . , . or master blakes answers are frivolous shifts the intelligent reader will perceive . my antipaedobaptism is enough to refute master john goodwins charge , and my censure of his interpretations others have made good . as for the text master blake mindes me of , job . . it may appear from my writings to be more pertinently applyable to himself , then me . had ever any man shewed me so much confused scribling , so many irrational unproved dictates , so many impertinent allegations in my w●itings as i and master blake have shewed in his , i would have silenced my self from writing any more , except a retractation of my former bookes . sect . xxii . animadversions on ch . . part . . of master thomas cobbet his just vindication touching the explication of acts . , . in which his exposition is shewed to be vain and mine justified . two points the paedobaptists do endeavour to confirm from acts . , . . that the children of believers are in the covenant . . that this being in covenant gives them right to baptism . this latter point is that which i am yet upon , for which how insufficient that text is hath been shewed in answer to master blake . my intent was in this place to have said no more of this text till i came to examine master ms. . concl. but sith master blake tels me master cobbet hath , p. . said that which utterly overthrowes my exposition , i shall examine what he saith , just vindic . ch . . , part . . sect. . he argues thus against my exposition . first , the promise is to you , that is , fulfilled to you accordingly as made to abraham , for sending of christ , &c. there wants scripture-proof , to make this sense of the promise , is to you , ( i. e. ) is fulfilled to you , nor yet doth that in acts . , . ye are the children of the promise , &c. prove this sense . ans ▪ my sense of the words is this . the promise of raising up of christ is now fulfilled to you , that is , for your benefit in the remission of your sins and blessing you , being called of god , and in like manner to your childeen , and to all that are afar off this to be the sense i gather , . from scriptures which seem to me to speak suitably thereto . the first is peters speech in the same ch . v. . of david . therefore being a prophet , and knowing that god had sworn with an oath to him , that of the fruit of his loynes he would raise up christ to sit on his throne , &c. hence i argue . it is most likely that peter ; v. . meant a promise mentioned before , and known to them to whom he spake . not the promise of the miraculous gift of the holy ghost , for reasons to be presently expressed ; therefore the promise mentioned , v. , , . the second is acts . , , , , , , . whence i argue . it is most likely that sense is best which hath most consonancy with the speech of the same author to the same persons , to the same purpose , on the like occasion . but the words , acts . , , , , , , . are such , and my sense of acts . , . hath most consonancy with those words . for in that speech he exhorts to repentance , v. . because that was fulfilled which was foretold by the prophets , to wit , christs resurrection ; and v. . the covenant mentioned is that of blessing all the kinreds of the earth in abrahams seed , that is , christ. and that this was fulfilled , v. . in raising up christ , and this was first to them , to wit , for their benefit , by blessing and converting them : which hath much consonancy with my sense of acts . , . therefore my sense is most likely . a third is acts . , , &c. which though it were spoken by another , to wit , paul , and to other company , yet by one endued by the same spirit , to persons in respect of their nation , and estate like , alleging v. . , . the same text and almost in the same words which peter used , acts . , , . now in that place paul makes the promise to the fathers to be the raising up of christ , and speaks of it as to them , in that it was fulfilled , and that for their benefit , the forgiveness of sins , v. . and thereupon exhorteth to repentance and embracing of christ v. . somewhat to like purpose might be alleged from rom. . , &c. but this is enough to shew that my exposition doth not want scripture-proof . . i gather my sense thus . the term [ is ] is in the present tense . this master cobbet takes notice of when he saith , that the apostle doth not say , the promise was to you . the proposition must be understood either as a proposition secundi adjecti , as logicians speak , the promise is to you , that is , the promise exists to you , so as that the verb substantive should note meer existence : but this construction [ the promise existes or hath existence to you ] seems to me to be defective in sense or truth . for the promise being a trans●unt act , was not then existent . nor were it true , do i conceive to what purpose he should mention the bare existence of the promise , which could be neither comfort to them , nor motive to the duty he pressed . or else the proposition must be tertii adjecti ; and if so , there must be a supplement either of the term [ made ] or the term [ fulfilled ] for i know no third . but not the term [ made ] for then the sense should be [ the promise is now made to you , &c. ] but this is not true , the promise was not then made to them , but to their fathers , acts . . therefore the supplement [ fulf●illed ] is most probable , it being the term used , acts . . and . . . this exposition of mine seems to me to be right , because it is opposite to the apostles scope , which was to direct ane erect those affrighted jewes to whom he spake . now the sense that i give is very proper to comfort them against the horrour of their fact in crucifying christ , and wishing his blood to be on them and their children , matth. . . by telling them as peter did , acts . , , , , , . that though they did unwittingly kill christ , yet god had thereby fulfilled his promise , even for their good and their children , even as joseph when he told his brethren , gen. . . gen. . , , that though they thought evil against him ▪ yet god meant it unto good , to bring to pass ; as it is this day to save much people alive . and this sense is a very fit motive to move them to repent and be baptized in the name of christ for remission of sins , by testifying that the promise of sending christ was fulfilled in the raising of christ from the dead ▪ . my exposition is confirmed , because all other expositions have less evidence , and are more liable to exceptions . the most likely exposition after that which i give , seems to be that which expounds the promise to be that of giving the holy ghost in the miraculous gifts , which is called , v. . the promise , luke . . and was mentioned in the next words before , acts . . and of this i confess the sense may be good thus understood . the promise of giving the holy ghost , joel . . is fulfilled in that which ye see and heare , acts . . to you , and your children , and all that are afar off , that is , for their benefit , by moving them to own christ. but me thinks if the promise were meant of that gift , it should be meant thus , the promise is to you , that is , god hath promised to give to each of you , &c. this gift of the holy ghost , because the words immediately before , v. . are , and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost . but thus the proposition should not be true ; for all afar off who were called of god , had not that gift , and therefore it was not promised them . nor had this sense been so fit as to comfort them sith that gift might be given ▪ and was to persons whom god rejected . as for the other exposition , that the promise is , that god will be a god to them and their children , as to abraham and his seed , gen. . . it cannot be the promise meant , acts . . for , . there is not the least intimation in the text of that promise . . there was no such promise in all the scripture , that god would be a god to those to whom peter then spake , and to their children as their children , no nor such a promise as this , i will be a god to a believer and his seed . for if this promise were made to the seed of every believer , then either god keepes it , or not . if not , then he breaks his word ; if he do , then he is a god to them . but that is not true : for neither in saving graces , nor in ecclesiastical priviledges , v.g. church-membership and baptism , is god a god to every one that is the seed or natural child of a believer . yet if it were true , it had been false , being spoken to those jewes , who were not then believers , nor perhaps many of them evet believers in christ. and it is most false , that the christian church-membership and baptism did belong to the jews as jews , by vertue of any covenant made with that nation . for then john baptist did ill to expostulate with them for coming to his baptism , matth. . . and to disswade them from alleging they had abraham to their father , v. . and to tell them of another sort of children of abraham that had more right to it then they . yea , john the baptist and the apostles did ill to require personal repentance and believing , if they had right to such priviledges by a promise without them . nor is the promise said to be to any children , but those that are called of god , and therefore not to infants uncalled , and consequently this scripture is very ill applyed to prove federall holyness of believers infants . master cobbet addes , secondly , it is sending of christ or of christ sent . but let it be considered , . that the apostle doth not say , the promise was to you , as in reference to the time of making it to the fathers , with respect unto them , or in reference to christ , who was not now to come , but already come , as the apostle proveth from v. , to . nor is it the use of the scripture , when mentioning promises as fulfilled , to express it thus in the present tense : the promise is to you , or to such and such , but rather to annex some expression that way , which evinceth the same , for which let rom. . . john . . ephes. . . nehe. . , . chron. . . kings . . acts . , , . and . , . josh. . . and . . matth. . , . and . . luke . , , , . and psal. . . rom. . , . be considered . ans. . how the verb substantive [ is ] in the present tense , and the promise referred to christ , who was now come , agrees with the words and scope of the apostle , is already shewed . and my sense is like or the same with master ms. when he said in his sermon , pa. . the plain strength of the argument , is god hath now remembred his covenant to abraham in sending that blessed seed , and the new annot. in locum ; the promise is to you , christ is promised both to jewes and gentiles : but the jewes had the first place . which is agreeable to the speeches of , mary , luke . , . and of zacharias , v. , , ▪ , , , . . it is true , that the expression in that manner is not usual , and it is confessed that in the places cited and many more the fulfilling of a promise is otherwise expressed . but what then ? doth it follow that is not the meaning which i give ? if it did , by the same reason , neither master cobbets is right . for it is usual to express a promise belonging to some of a thing yet to be done in some other expressions , as john . . pet. . . yea , in the place rom. . . of which master cobbet pa. . saith , for the promise i● to you or belongs to you , as rom. . . hath it , the expression is not in the dative case , as acts . . but in the genitive . but it is needfull to consider how master cobbet himself expounds the words , sect. . he saith thus , the promise is to your children : not , was to you , &c. as intending any legal blessing , but , a promise then in force after christs ascension , to effect some promised blessing [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] used to signify the free promise , or covenant of grace , to which they had visible right . sect. . remission of sins may not be excluded , but must be one principal thing intended . it is that promise to which baptism the seal is annexed . sect. . nor was abrahams charter less then what here avowed by the apostle , scil. that the promise even of sins , did belong to the jewes , and to their children in respect of external right and administration , and no more is pleaded for . but repent and be baptized de futuro ; for the promise in praesenti is to you , scil. in respect of external right . sect. . and this promise here mentioned , acts . , . containing in it remission of sins , and so the righteousness of faith . the promise of remission of sins is or belongeth to you ; scil. in the external right and administration of it . so then according to master cobbets exposition the promise meant is remission of sins , and of this it is said that it is , not , it was to them , and the manner how is , that it is to them , or it belongs to them in ●he external right and administration of it . the promise or covenant he means here belonging to them to be abrahams charter , gen. . . jerem. . ▪ . holding out at least an external interest therein to them being jewes , not yet believing fathers , or repenting : for that is rather mentioned as exerted after many words besides , v. , . yea , rather they were offensive members of the jewish church ( which was then a true visible gospel-church ) they were as persons under censure , though they had jus ad baptismum , yet not jus in baptismo without repentance , yet they were covenant-fathers , and dispensers of the external right of it to their children , though their children were not called . and herein is the difference between them and those afar off ; the gentiles ; it is to the jews actually , to the gentiles de praesenti , onely intentionally , till they be called of god , which he understands not of an effectual saving call , but calling into visible covenant and church-estate , and then it belongs to their children as to the jewes . this i gather to be his meaning out of scattered passages , sect. , , . i shall , . observe some things concerning the exposition in general . . clear my own exposition from objections . . make some animadversions on several passages in the latter sections of this ch . of master cobbet . i observe that he brings no proof but his own saying , that the promise is that , gen. . . or that it belongs to any in external right or administration , or that the apostle meant the belonging of the promise to them in respect of external right and administration . for to say , it is the promise to which baptism seals , is to prove an unknown thing by a more unknown , sith baptism neither there nor elsewhere is termed the seal of the promise or covenant , nor doth the apostle mention baptism as sealing or administring the promise , nor do i understand that there is any such thing as an external right and administration of the promise , or by vertue of the promise , but by vertue of the command . and therefore i judge all this talk to be a parcel of gibberish , which the scripture yields no hint of , but paedobaptists have formed it from those leading errors , that the nature of sacraments is to be seals of the covenant , that the reason of a person being circumcised , was interest in the covenant , gen. . . that there is the same reason of baptism as of circumcision besides , i would know to what the right is , and of what the administration is which he cals external , and in what sense it is called external . external he seems to make all one with quoad homines , & in foro ecclesiae , and the promise is of remission of sins ; the sense then is , you have a right and administration of remission of sins in respect of men , and in the court of the church . a right is a title to a thing which a man may claim , an administration is a serving or bringing in , as when a deacon gives money to the poor , g●hazi reacheth water to elishah . if there be sense in master cobbets exposition , this should be the meaning . you jewes who crucified christ , and your children , though neither yet believers , nor repenting persons , have a right and administration of the promise of remission of sins , gen. . . though not in respect of god or the court of heaven or your own consciences , yet before or by men or in the court of the church , so that you may claim absolu●ion from them , and they do or ought to administer it to you by a sentence or baptism or some other way . which were to make the apostles speak non-sense , and impious falshood : non-sense , the words bearing no such meaning according to the scripture-use or other approved authors : falshood , in that he should tell them they had such a right and administration as they had not , and this impious , sith it tends to harden them in impenitency and unbelief , and to justify preachers or churches in an unrighteous sentence , wherein remission of sins is pronounced to belong to persons impenitent and unbelieving in sensu composito while such . the like may be said if the right be meant to visible church-membership , and baptism and administration of them , the speech would be non-sense ; neither scripture , nor any author at that time expressing these things by that which peter spake , acts . . and the speech were false , they then having no right or administration of either , and it had been impious to say so to them ; for it had tended to move them to assume that to them , and to justify the yielding it to them , which had been injuriously and profanely both arrogated and yielded to them . yet further , what a ridiculous salve had this been to consciences so tortured with the sense of that most horrid act of killing christ , to tell them , the promise of remission of sins was to them in respect of external right and administration before men or in the face of the church , though not before god or in their own consciences , or that they had outward right and administration of visible church-membership and baptism , i may use his own words , mutatis mutandis ? sect. . they were not troubled for want of externall right and administration , and to tell them of such right and administration was both impertinent and unsatisfactory , and it could minister but little comfort to sin-sick soules to promise them such things , which they might have , and yet die in their sins , matth. . . besides , it seems to be a contradiction to say , the promise is to you de praesenti , in respect of external right and administration , and yet you have not jus in re , and in like manner to say that the promise is to all afar off de praesenti , in respect of external right and administration , and yet it belongs not to them actually , but intentionaly . and whence hath master cobbet warrant to say that the promise belongs one way to the jewes , and another way to the gentiles ? or that the promise belonged to the jew and his child in respect of external right and administ●ation , though uncalled ? lastly , that i not grate any further on this soare , where doth master cobbet find in scripture any mention of gods calling into visible covenant , and church-estate ? or how can it be true that the church to which those jewes who crucifyed christ joyned , containing the unbelieving scribes and pharisees and high priests , and the people of the jewes consenting with them , was a gospel-church , visibly interested in the covenant o● grace , the subject of the gospel , and the same essentially with that gospel or christian church , and that there was no other visible church , then that of the jewes ▪ credat judaeus apella , non ego . but of these somewhat in the animadversions following . master cobbet against my exposition writes further thus . . they knew already to their cost , that christ indeed was sent amongst them , and to be that jesus or saviour of his people from their sins , acts . , . compared with matth . . and this was cold comfort to them , to tell them of that which wounded them , unless there be withall some promise annexed and supposed in his being come . the promise meerly of christs coming could not comfort them , unless also in and by christ come in the flesh , there be some promise made to them touching the removall of those burdens of guilt which lay upon them . the blessing principally propounded to them , for their reviving , healing , succour , and support , it was not christs sending , nor his being sent , but emission of sins , v. . wherefore unless the apostle argue impertinently , this may not be excluded , but must be one principall thing intended . . it is that promise to which baptism the seal is annexed , now the seal is ever to the covenant , which is not barely to christs being sent in the flesh , but to benefits contained in promises by his coming . ans. had master cobbet heeded my words in my exam. pag. . and was it not a comfortable argument for men in that case to be told , that notwithstanding all this the promise of christ and remission of sins by him , was yet to them and their children , &c. and pag. . the promise which is made to abraham is now fulfilled in sending christ to you and your children , and to all that are afar off as many as the lord our god shall call , that they might be turned from their iniquity , and baptized in his name for the remission of their sins , these objections had been spared , they proceeding all against me upon this mistake ( which my words heeded might have rectifyed ) as if i had expounded the promise , acts . . of christs being sent and coming without some promise annexed , and particularly that of remission of sins by christ ▪ whereas i did expresly include it in my paraphrase ( as my words recited shew ) gathering it from the mention of it , v. . and conceiving it to be implyed in the expression [ to you , v. . ] that is , for your benefit by remission of your sins . and therefore these three objections are answered by shewing how according to my exposition the promise of christ sent includes also the benefit of remission of sins . but on the contrary all these objections are against master cobbets own exposition . for , . it had been but cold comfort to tell them of a promise of remission of sins onely in external right and administration . . it had not been available for their reviving , healing , succour , and support . . according to paedobaptists suppositions , baptism is not a seal of that covenant in which remission of sins in external right and administration onely is promised , but , as it is in the directory , it is a seal of the covenant of grace , of our ingrafting into christ , and of our union with him , of remission of sins , regeneration ; adoption , and life eternal . therefore the promise , acts . . according to master cobbets own arguments , and paedobaptists hypotheses is not of remission of sins onely in ex●●rnal right and administration . master cobbets third exception , sect. . about those afar off , whether israelites in the disp●rsion , or in after ages , or the gentiles be meant , hath been considered before . but whereas he saith , the apostles afore peter ▪ sermon , acts . knew by christs declaration of his minde to all his apostles touching the discipling and inchu●ching of the gentiles the conversion of them , onely they knew not whether it might be by joyning them first by way of addition , as proselytes to the jewes , rather then by gathering them into other distinct churches ; his speech is not right . for , . though it is true , christ had declared his minde , matth. . . mark . . about conversion of the gentiles , yet either peter understood not christs minde , or did not remember it afore the vision , acts . . it is apparent from acts . . that the exception against peter was not for that he had gathered cornelius and his company into a distinct church , and not joyned them as proselytes to the jewes , but that he went in to men uncircumcised , and did eat with them , which sh●wes they held it unlawfull so much as to preach and converse with any uncircumcised , though he were a proselyte of the gate , as cornelius appears to have been . as for not joyning the gentiles as proselytes to the jewes , they knew that well enough , that they were not to be so joyned , sith neither john the baptist , nor christ or his disciples did ever by baptism joyn any as proselytes to the jewes , but did take even the jewes themselves ( who embraced their doctrine ) into distinct churches or schooles , though they did not erect any new political states or common-wealths , as the nation of the jewes was . master cobbet further excepts against me in these words . . it 's affirmed , that this promised of sending christ was to them , their children , and those afar off , as many as our god should call , that they may be turned from their iniquity , and be baptized for remission of sins , and yet also that the promise , what ever it be supposed to be , was to them all , with that limitation , that they repent , or that they be called . what ? is it to as many as the lord shall call , or convert , or cause to repent ? and yet is it , that they may be turned from their iniquity ? is it to persons called , and yet also to uncalled persons ? is it to them that they may be called , yet the persons to whom the promise is , are as many as are supposed to be called ? how can these two be right ? yea , it is to them all , upon condition that they be called , and yet also , that it is to them , that they may be called . why , if it be to them , that by christ they may be called , then is that promise to persons as yet uncalled , and their calling is an effect following their interest in that promise as a cause , and not preceding their interest in the promise as a condition . ans. the promise is of sending of christ for remission of sins , their calling is a consequent of christs being sent , who was sent to turn them from iniquity , that is , to call them ; and this calling was for a further benefit , remission of sins through christ sent , and so their calling is a condition of the remission of sins by christ sent , nor is the promise of remission of sins by christ sent to any but those who are called . the calling is a consequent to christs sending as a prior benefit , and an antecedent to remission of sins as a subsequent . and thus the knot master cobbet conceives is easily loosed . sect . xxiii . the arguments drawn from acts . , . against the connexion between covenant-interest and baptism-right , and infant-baptism are vindicated from master cobbets answers . there are other passages in the following sections , on which i animadvert , sect. . he saith , acts . he doth not intend it thus , your children ( i. e. ) abrahams children ; for abraham is considered rather by him as a patern , having the precedential copy of the covenant mentioned . and it had been incongruous to have said ; it is to your children , that is , to abrahams children . concerning which passage i say , that though i conceive it a mistake to understand by [ your children ] abrahams children , yet master cobbets words intimate sundry things which are liable to animadversions . . the promise , acts . . is supposed by others , and by master cobbet , sect. . to be that , gen . . i will be a god to thee and thy seed after thee , but this was the covenant it self , and not a precedential copy of the covenant mentioned . i think master cobbet cannot shew any other after copy , in which god promised to be the god of a believer and his seed , which it is confessed he did to abraham . . that abraham should be considered rather as a pattern to fathers , then as a particular person is said without any proof ; nor is it true , . because it is understood in scripture as meant of abraham as a particular person , gal. . , &c. . because if he were considered as a pattern , the promise should be to others as to him , gen. , . but that is not true , the promise is made to none besides as to abraham , gen. . . and whereas master cobbet observes that the promise to them and their children cannot be meant of the children as their children after the spirit , because they could not be such spiritual fathers to any children of theirs , themselves being not yet such relates , as believing fathers , nor having such correlates as children after the spirit ; this doth plainly shew that the promise to them and their children is not all one with a promise to believers and their children , and the mention of the children , acts . . is not to intimate any priviledge arising to the child from the faith of the parent . for , as master cobbet saith truly , as yet they acted not faith and repentance , nor doth peter say , the promise is or belongs to you , for you have repented , and consequently believed . as for master cobbets inference that if th● imprecation of the jewes , matth. . . were the occasion of peters words acts . . then the promise must be also to their babes , on whom they wished christs blood , else the plaister were too narrow for their wounds rising from the guilt of bloud wished upon their children , including , and not excluding their babes ; it followes not . for , . though babes be children , yet children indefinitely put without any universal sign may be meant of others then babes or infants . . the wish may be meant of infants , and the promise also , yet not to take place or to be accomplished on them or to them in their infancy . that curse and that promise which is made to a mans children being for present infant● is verifyed if it happen to them at twenty years old , they being then th●●●me persons , which they were when they were but a day old . . will master cobbet assert , the promise must be as large as the curse ? if so , then the promise must belong to their children , elder or younger , whether believing or unbelieving ▪ p●nitent or impenitent , for the wish was on all absolutely . but master cobbet ( i presume ) will not assert the promise of remission of sins was in praesenti to all the children of the jewes to whom peter spake , elder and younger , believing and unbelieving , penitent and impenitent in respect of external right and administration . therefore he must limit the term [ your children ] if he will have his own exposition to hold good , and consequently the children , acts . . must be fewer then those the imprecation lighted on , mat. . . sect. . that which master cobbet saith , that those who say the promise made to abraham of sending christ and now fulfilled , is to them , in effect say as those that expound [ the promise is to you ] that is , is offered to you , is not right . for the fulfilling notes something past , the offer is of something to be yet done or attained , yet it is true that the speech of peter did contain not onely an offer , but also an assurance of remission of sins to the called by vertue of the promise fulfilled in christs coming . of the sense of the words , acts . . i have spoken somewhat before . the terms [ children of the prophets and of the covenant ] are appropriated to the jewes , as rom. , . they being the onely people to whom the prophets were sent , as beza annot ▪ in locum , id est , ●i ●stis quibus peculiariter destinati fuerunt prophetae , & quibuscum foedus est sancitum , ex hebraeorum idiotismo , qu●m supra aliquoties annotavimus . huc pertinet quod ait paulus , rom. . . and when he saith , they were children of the covenant made with the fathers , and not of the fathers with whom the covenant is made , the intent is not to shew that it 's meant of church and federal interest in them , as covenant-fathers and dispensers , or to shew that the covenant was as seed , by vertue whereof they considered as foederally and ecclesiastically priviledged , did spring in master cobbets sense of outward church-membership and initiating ordinance : but the plain meaning is , that they were the people to whom the first exhibition and tender of the gospel did belong , in that they were the posterity of the fathers with whom the covenant was made : and so the jewes had a priority of not onely external interest in the covenant , but also internal , though when the gentiles were called , the priviledges of the covenant were equal to the gentiles with the jewes , and the condition of the promise , that is , the obtaining remission of sins by the fulfilling of the promise , is equally to jew and gentile savingly believing , sect. . master cobbets conceit of the term [ afar off , acts . . ] that it is , meant of their being strangers from actual interests in the covenants of promise , and common-wealth of israel , or the visible political church , ephes. . , , . supposeth , . the terms 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those afar off , acts . . to be the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were sometimes afar off , ephes. . . but the phrases are not the same , and it is for reasons formerly given more likely that the remoteness , acts . . is meant of place or descent . . that the remoteness , ephes. . . was in respect of external church interest , and so in like manner , acts . . but ephes. . . the remoteness was such as was taken away by the blood of christ , which is more then external church-interest , and the nearness such as [ you and your children , acts . . ] had not then attained to , but were then afar off from god , or as it is , v. . had not access by one spirit unto the father . and therefore master cobbets sayings that the jewes and their children , acts . . were not then when peter spake afar off , as the t●rm is meant , ephes. , . but rather nigh in that sense , and that the promise is to them actually , & quoad hominem , and to the other , that is , the genteles , afar off intentionally , & quoad deum , even whilest afar off , and uncalled , are but conceits arising from the mistakes of peters speech , acts . . and pauls , ephes. . . it is true , to the jewes indefinitely , that is , to that nation or people did the adoption and promises belong , yet not to every particular person of that nation ; for as it is said , rom. . . to whom pertaineth the adoption , and the promises ; so it is said . v. , . to whom pertain the service of god , of whom as concerning the flesh christ came : and yet these things not true of every israelite . it is true , moses made a covenant , deut. . . with the unborn which were not actually existent in church-estate and humane being , but that this was a covenant wherein covenant-grace is expressed , and that it is verified intentionally , & quoad deum , is besides the text , which speaks not of gods making a covenant , but of moses , v. . and this covenant was obliging to duty , not expressing covenant-grace . that which master cobbet saith , that the righteousness of faith according to the covenant , gen. . . which containeth the promise of justification , was by circumcision visibly sealed unto the jewes & their children by gods own appointment , circumcision being in the sacramental nature of it , a visible seal of the righteousness of faith it self , and not meerly in a personal respect to abraham , as applyed by his faith to justification , hath either none or very little truth . for though it be true that the promise , gen. . . was of the righteousness of faith according to the more hidden sense of the words , yet it was so onely to the spiritual seed of abraham by faith , rom. . , . gal. . , , . nor was circumcision appointed by god to seal it to jewes and their children , nor circumcision in the sacramental nature of it , a visible seal of the righteousness of faith , nor is any mans circumcision termed in the scripture a seal of the righteousness of faith , but abrahams , which was not a seal as applyed by his faith to his justification , but as a seal to him that he had the righteousness of faith before he was circumcised , and that all that believe as he did shall be justified , as he was , rom. . , . master cobbet addes , nor will it suffice to say , that covenant was a mixt covenant . it held forth temporal things indeed , but by vertue of a covenant of grace , psal. . . as doth the promise now , tim. . . but it holds forth also spiritual things in the external right and administration thereof to all , albeit in the internal operation , as to some . the promises are to them all , rom. . . scil. in the former sense ; and yet , ver . . some onely are the children of the promise , and the choice seed in that general covenant , scil. in respect of the saving efficacy of the covenant upon them , v. . and the same distinction is now held out in such sort , amongst persons in church-estate . ans. it sufficeth against those that make the covenant , gen. . to be a covenant of evangelical grace onely , and make other promises of temporal things to be onely administrations of it , and make circumcision a seal of the covenant of grace , because it was the t●ken of that covenant , to say , that 〈◊〉 covenant , gen. . . was a mixt covenant containing promises proper to abrahams natural posterity as well as evangelical to his spiritual , and 〈◊〉 the covenant is rather to be denominated from the former , which are more manifestly held forth in it then the latter , and that the reason why circumcision was appointed , was the signifying and assuring the former rather then the latter , and so the circumcising of infants was not from interest evangelical , but national or proper to the people of abraham . nor is master cobbets exception of any validity , that because there is a promise of the life that now is , tim. . . therefore the covenant now is mixt . for the promise of the life that now is , is not of any outward inheritance peculiar to the godly and their children , as abraham had of the land of canaan for him and his , but of fatherly care , and sanctified use of outward things . nor doth psal. . . prove that the inheriting canaan , being great and prosperous , gen. . , , , , . were by vertue of a covenant of grace , but it rather appears from many places , deut. . &c. heb. . . that they were by the covenant of works in keeping the law of moses , unto which circumcision did oblige , gal. . . the promises gen. . so far as they were evangelical did belong to abrahams seed by faith onely , nor doth the apostle any where interpret that promise , gen. . . as holding forth spiritual things in the external ▪ right and administration of it , and the spiritual things assured therein are by the apostle determined , rom. . . to belong onely to the elect , not to all . nor doth rom. . . say , the promises pertained to all the jewes , nor to any in respect of external right and administration . and though i deny ▪ not but that persons may be said to be outwardly in the covenant of grace in appearance to m●n , when they make a profession of faith , though not in reality , yet i deny that god hath made the covenant or promise of grace to any other then the elect & true believers , nor appointed any way of sealing it to any other . nor is it true that baptism as a covenant-seal presupposeth a covenant-right , or that the jewes , acts . , . had any covenant or church-right to baptism , jus ad r●m , though not jus in re , afore they were believers on christ , nor had they any right to baptism in that they were members of the church of the jewes , nor was the commission of baptism first given by god to john baptist in reference to that church of the jewes , as a seal of their membership therein , but of their owning johns doctrine , becoming his disciples , and joyned into a school or church distinct from the pharasees , and other jewish church-rulers , though they adhered till after christs death to the law of moses and temple-service . nor is there any truth in it that peter required of the jewes repentance afore baptism , acts . . because though they had covenant or church-right thereto , yet being adult members under offence , and admonished thereof by peter : they might for their obstinacy against such an admonition notwithstanding church or covenant-right have been debarred that seal . for , . the christian church and the jewish church of which those jewes were members were in their profession not onely distinct , but also opposite ; therefore there was no church-right from being members in the one to be members of the other . . for their fact of which they were admonishde by peter , they were so far from being in danger of being cast out of the jewish church in which they were members , that they were more sure of being cast out for repenting of their sin , and being baptized into the name of christ , john . . . peter doth not act in his speech , acts . , ● . as an elder in the jewish church , for he was none , but as an apostle of christ : nor was their fact objected to them as an offence to the church of which ●●ey were , but confessed by themselves as an heavy burden that lay on their conscience : nor was peters advice given to remove a church-censure for re-admission to a seal , but to ease their consciences , and to bring them to the faith of christ and communion of that church into which they had never been admitted . but master cobbet against my first exception saith , those jewes were offensive members of that jewish church , which was a true visible church , and not yet dischurched and divorced by the lord ; they were then in the church of the gospel , and so externally in covenant and church-estate also , as being yet in the olive and kingdom of god , and not cast out , untill their unbelief , or total and final rejection of the covenant as ratified in jesus as that promised messiah , rom. . . to which the jewes had not as yet come . ans. a church of the gospel is such a company as avoucheth the gospel , the gospel was that jesus was the christ ; to the being in the church of the gospel , it is not sufficient that there hath not been a total or final rejection of the covenant , but it is necessary there be an explicit believing and owning of christ , john . . to be a people so cast off as to have the offer of grace taken from them , presupposeth such a rejection , acts . . mat. . . but to be a gospel-church or member of a gospel-church , requires more then a non-rejection , to wit , an express avouching of the gospel . non-rejection doth not make a gospel-church or church-member ; if it did , the salvage americans that never heard of the gospel , and so have not rejected it , should be a gospel-church and church-members . yet that jewish church of which the jewes , acts . . were of , and those jewes themselves had rejected christ with much violence , john . . acts . , , . and therefore they could have no covenant or church-right , no not externally quoad homines from their standing in that church , by which they might have claimed admission into the christian church by baptism without repentance , and faith in christ , no not though they were supposed to have been without any scandalous sin deserving excommunication or suspense from the seal . but master cobbet is bold to avouch , that this church was a gospel-church visibly interessed in the covenant of grace , the subject of the gospel , and the same essentially with that gospel , or christian church : which to me is such a paradox , as is by no means to be received . for then that church should be a gospel-church , which did obstinately adhere to the law , and they interessed in the covenant of grace , who sought righteousness by the works of the law , and they a christian church who denyed , persecuted , killed christ , and avouched themselves moses his disciples , john . . not christs . and if that church and the christian be the same essentially ▪ he that was admitted to the jewish church was admitted to the christian , then baptism was needless , yea , irrigular for the entering and admission of a believing jew into the christian church , contrary to that , cor. . . for they were in the christian church before , in that they were in the jewish church essentially the same , then did peter ill to exhort them to save themselves from them , acts . . then was luke mistaken in saying v. . the lord added them daily to the church after they were converted and baptized , for they were in the same church before ; all which are in my apprehension palpable absurdities . but master cobbet thus backs his assertion ; unless , whilst the jewish church stood , any will say , there was no evangelical visible church in the world , but a legal church ; for there was no other visible church , then that of the jewes . ans. the perpetual visibility of the true church is a point in which papists and protestants differ . the papists assert a perpetual visibility of the church in pastors and people , as sensible as any other society of men ; so that at any time one may point with his finger and say , this is the church , the protestants , that though it abide always upon the earth , holding the whole faith without change , and containing a certain number that constantly profess it , yet this number may be very small , and their profession so secret among themselves , that the world and such as love not the truth , shall not see them , they remaining so hidden as if they were not at all . thus doctor john white in his way to the true church , sect . . digress . . sets down the difference . if master cobbet mean ( as he seems to do ) a visible political church in the former sense , then it is no absurdity to say , at some time while the jewish church stood there was no evangelical visible church in the world . for at the time of christs passion when the disciples were scattered , the shepherd being smitten , matth. . . there was no such visible evangelical church ; yea , some of the papists themselves quoted by doctor white in the same place , hold that about the time of christs passion , the true faith remained in none but onely the virgin mary . alsted . suppl . panstr . cath . chami . de eccl . l. . c. . s. . d●in●e tempore passionis christi ecclesia non erat visibilis , talis scilicet , in qua erant praela●i & subditi , pastores & oves . nam ecclesia visibilis non erat apud pharisaeos & scribas ▪ illi enim impudenter , & sceleratè errarunt . but in the latter sense which the protestants follow , we can assign an evangelical visible church in the world , distinct from the jewish , while the jewish church stood . alsted . ubi supra . ergo ecclesia externa etiam tota deficere potest , remanentibus occultis fidelibus ; quales tum temporis erant simeon , anna , nicodemus , &c. at the time of christs incarnation and before there was in the protestant sense a true visible evangelical church in simeon , anna , and those to whom she spake , who looked for redemption in jerusalem , luke . . in the time of john baptists and christs ministery , many baptized by john and christs disciples , john . , . in the time of christs passion , besides the apostles , and those women who professed , joseph of ari●●th●a and nicodemus are expressed , john . , . to have owned christ. and these were a distinct church from the j●wish , i mean the priests , scribes , pharisees and people who denyed christ , though not in their political government , yet in their profession of faith , which is necessary according to protestants to make a company to be a visible evangelical church , and essentially the same with the church christian , ames . medul . th. l. . c. . ecalesia est societus fidelium ; quia idem illud in professione constituit ecclesiam visibilem , quod interna & reali sua natura constituit ecclesiam mystica●● , id est , fides . but master cobbet from his erroneous dictates would frame an answer to the argument brought from peters words , acts . , . to prove that the imagined covenant-right is not sufficient to intitle to baptism , without repentance and faith , sith even of those jewes to whom he said the promise is , he pre-required repentance to baptism , and thus he writes . that then something further was required by peter , of the adult jewes , to actual participation of baptism , and it was not because their church of which they were members was no true visible evangelical church , since it was gods onely visible church , in the time of christs incarnation , of which he lived and died a member ; and none will say , he was no member of any evangelical church , but of a legal ; nor was it because the seal of baptism was not administrable , in , or by , or to that church of the jewes . ans. the true reason , why we conceive peter required repentance of the adult jewes to baptism , is because christ appointed none to be baptized , but his disciples ▪ such as did repent & believe in him as the messiah , matth. . . mark . . and so peter here , and philip , acts . , . understood christs minde . the other reasons that the jewish church was no true visible evangelical church , and that the seal of baptism was not administrable , in , or by , o● to that church of the jewes , i know not who assignes them as the cause why peter required of adult jewes repentance to baptism , so that if master cobbet did make void these reasons , and not the genuine reason assigned by us , his answer is insufficient to the argument . however i shall examine what he saith , sith his writing hath been crackt of as unanswerable . . by removing the first reason , he intimates that the objectour conceived it necessary that a person to be baptized be a member of a true visible evangelical church and this he denies not , yea he seems to conceive that it is needfull he be a member of such a particular church visible in respect of outward order , and government by elders and people united in covenant . but this i conceive not true . . because no more is needfull then is required in the institution . but in the institution to be a disciple of christ , a penitent believer on him is required and no more , matth. . . mark . . acts . . not to be a member of a particular visible evangelical church . ergo. . no more is needfull to baptism then what philip required of the eunuch , acts . , . peter of cornelius , acts . , . acts . , . paul of the jaylour and others , acts . . but they required no more but to be a disciple of christ , or a penitent believer . ergo. . if it were requisite to be a member of a particular church , cornelius was not rightly baptized : but this is not true : ergo. the consequence of the major is proved , because cornelius afore his baptism was not a member of any particular church ▪ not of the jewish , for he was uncircumcised ; and counted unclean by them , acts . . not of the christian ; for they excepted against peter for going in to him , acts . , . regularly a man is not a member of a particular church till he is baptized , baptism going before joyning to the church , acts . , . therefore it is not necessary a person be a member of a particular visible church afore baptism . . master cobbet takes on him to prove that the church of which the adult jewes , acts . . were members was a true evangelical church . . because so in the time of christs incornation . but this followeth not , it might be so at christs incarnation , and yet not be so at the time of peters speech , acts . , . they having expresly denyed christ. . because he lived and dyed a member of that church , and none will say , he was no member of any evangelical church , but of a legal . to which i say , . christ lived & dyed the head of the evangelical church of jewes and gentiles , but not as a subordinate member in it , though he were subject to the law of moses , and did yield obedience to it while it was his fathers will it should stand in force . . but that he died as a member of the jewish church , to wit , that party of which the jewes , acts . . were a part , is not true , he being an out-cast from them , and made a curse for us . . if it should be granted he were a member of that church , he had been a member not of an evangelical church , but legal , or rather manifestly antichristian . . by removing the second reason of peters requiring repentance afore baptism of the adult jewes , he intimates that this objectour conceived it necessary that baptism be administred in or by or to a church , such as the jewes was not , and he grants the former , and denies the latter . but how or whence it is deduced that baptism must be administrable in or by or to a church i understand not . baptism hath been and may be lawfully administred without the presence of any church , as in the baptism of the eunuch by philip , acts . . to a person who is member of no particular church , as in cornelius his baptism , and by a minister without consent of any church , as in the same cases , and to a single person , though no church were baptized , as in the eunuchs case . then he asserts the seal of baptism administrable in , or by , or to the church of the jewes , that he may maintain a title to baptism , though suspended by reason of their sin in the jewes from an imagined covenant-right , and church-membership antecedent to their repentance , which are wild fancies . but let us view what he writes . for it 's evident ( saith master cobbet ) that the commission of baptism was first given by god , to john baptist , in reference to that church of the jewes as a seal of their membership therein ; the same god that told him , who should , baptize with the holy ghost , he sent him to baptize , john . . the pharisees themselves could not deny johns baptism to be from heavens authority , mat. . , . and baptism being a church-ordinance , to be in ordinary dispensation or administred onely in and by a church of christ , that baptism was at that time the jewish church-ordinance , so far forth , there was no other floor , wherein all sorts which john baptized , whether they proved chaffy hypocrites , or solid grain upright ones , were in his and christs time interessed , matth. . , . this was then the onely floor , or visible church of christ ( for in the invisible church is no chaffe ) [ his ] floor ; he shall purge [ his ] floor . ans. it is granted , john was sent by god to baptize , and that the people or church of the jewes were christs floor , and that in that floor or people were chaffe and wheat , bad and good , reprobate and elect ones . but this proves not the commission of baptism first given by god to john baptist in reference to that church of the jewes , as a seal of their membership therein . for what consequence is there in this , god sent john to the jewes , he had his authority to baptize those of the jewes , who repented , therefore he sealed their membership in the church of the jewes , and baptism was administrable in , or by , or to that church of the jewes ? it seems to me that the contrary followes , john was sent ●o baptize , he preacheth repentance , tells them that it availed not them to say abraham was their father gathers them into a distinct school or society from the pharisees and lawyers , luke . , . directs them to christ , who should sever chaffe and wheat ; therefore he was not given by god in reference to that church of the jewes as a seal of their membership therein , but severed a people from them by repentance and baptism , and that baptism was not administrable in , or by , or to that church of the jewes , but in a distinct company , by a select officer , to a severed people from that church . nor do i know it to be true that baptism is a church-ordinance , to be in ordinary dispensation administred onely in and by a church of christ , but conceive it a ministerial ordinance to be administred by one single minister without the presence or consent of a church of christ : nor do i think baptism was at that time the jewish ordinance being neither appointed in their law , nor by ministers chosen by them , nor by their authority , nor according to their direction ▪ nor for the setling of their church-discipline , or authority , but in these and all other respects opposite or distinct from the jewish church . and although i grant the jewish people or church ( though pareus com in locum saith , dominus areae suae , h. e. ecclesiae . imo totius mundi ) christs floor , yet from hence it followes not they were christs visible church , there being other reason why they are called christs floor , because christ imployed his fanne , to wit , his preaching among them , being minister of the circumcision , rom. . . though they were not christs visible church , that is , a company or people professing themselves to be his disciples . nor is it true that in john baptists and christs time , all sorts which john baptized , hypocrites , or upright ones , were interessed in the jewish church as christs floor , nor any such thing proved from matth. . , . the being in the floor importing onely their position , no benefit or interest accruing to them thereby . but master cobbet goes on . into this church-fellowship also did christs own disciples by that new way of initiation , visibly seal persons , which were the reformed part of that jewish church , continuing still their relation to those officers of the jewish church , and their fellowship in the church-ordinances , then dispensed , and not separating from the same , either gathering into distinct churches , or calling to them other ordinary church-officers , which yet were not actually given by christ , untill upon his ascension , ephes. . , , . ans. the disciples of christ did not visibly seal persons by that new way of initiation into the jewish church-fellowship ; the fellowship they had in the jewish church , was by their birth and circumcision and the law they were under , which they submitted to , while it was in force , and observed such legal ordinances as were appointed them , acknowledging the priests and other officers of the jewes according to their place : yet in respect of profession of doctrine they were by baptism separated from the jewes , and were gathered into a distinct church , had christ and his apostles and the . as their officers in ordinary afore the ascension of christ : nor is there one jot of scripture that doth in the least countenance this fond conceit of master cobbet , that jewish church-membership gave title to baptism , or baptism visibly sealed persons into jewish church-fellowship . master cobbet having cashiered the spurious reasons ( as he imagins ) why peter required of the jews , to whom he said , the promise is repentance afore baptism , he takes on him to assigne the genuine reasons thus . but the reason rather was , partly because ( as was said ) they were under such offence . ans. he required repentance , because they had sinned in crucifying christ , but repentance was not required to take away the offence of the church the jewes were of , nor for the removing of a suspension from the seal . for peter was no jewish church-officer , neither did any of the jewish church in way of discipline deal with those jewes by any church-act , tending to their correction for that sin , yea , the rulers of the jewes with the people did generally avow that act as well done : nor was any thing more offensive to them then the profession of christ , and repentance for the killing of him . but peter requires repentance as a necessary prerequisite universally to baptism , and as the way to remission of sins , which their perplexed soules needed . master cobbet addes : and partly because , albeit their church were a true evangelical church , yet it was not so pure and perfect , but had many gross mixtures both of ceremonial administrations , which were now to be laid aside , and of most palpably and openly corrupt , and rotten members . ans. neither doth master cobbet offer any proof for this his speech , neither is there any likelyhood that peter ever intended to urge repentance by reason of these things , sith in none of his speeches he doth take exceptions at their church by reason of them , nor had this been a sufficient reason to urge them to repentance afore baptism , because though they had covenant and church-right to baptism , yet their right was to be suspended to the seal without repentance , because they had gross ceremonial mixtures , and openly corrupt members , the jewish church of which they were members being a gospel-church & essentially the same with the christian , if master cobbet say true ; for if this were a reason , the new-engl●●● elders do ill to admit godly persons to the seal with them , which came from ● pa●ish-church in england , in which were the like mixtures , and corrupt members without like repentance ▪ nor doth it appear that those jewes had any hand in those ceremonial administrations ; and though they sinned a great sin in crucifying christ , yet it wa● through ignorance , acts . . in a word , were it granted master cobbet that peter did require repentance for any of these reasons , yet the argument is no whit infringed thereby , that bare interest in the covenant doth not give title to baptism without repentance , sith it did not give title to these jewes , even then when notwithstanding their offence , and the corruptions in their church , yet the promise was asserted to belong to them de praesenti in respect of external right and administration , if master cobbets exposition hold good , which is directly opposite to the requiring of repentance to baptism by reason of a suspension of their right to the seal by reason of offence and corrupt mixtures . but let 's hear master cobbet a little further . and partly , saith he , because it was now requisite , not onely to acknowledg the promised m●ssiah of abrahams loynes , to be he alone , which by his bloud should come actually , as well as virtually , to ratifie the covenant of grace , visibly made with them , as they did in receiving the seal of circumcision , but that they own the lord jesus , who was crucified by , and among them , as he which alone did thus : which amongst other testimonies baptism witnesseth , therefore more was now required of the adult jews than formerly , which yet was not required of their unripe children . ans. i deny not circumcision to have had this use , that it might signify , that the promised messiah should come out of abrahams loynes , and i take it as certain that baptism was appointed , that thereby the baptized should own the lord jesus , and witness that he was the messiah , and that this was the reason why even the jewes circumcised , what ever their interest in the promise should be , were bound to witness by baptism christ to be come : but this though true , and such as shewes a manif●st difference between ci●cumcision and baptism in their use ; and confirmes the necessity of faith or owning of christ by the baptized at his baptism , yet is not pertinent to the intent of master cobbet ▪ sith thereby neither is the argument from peters requiring repentance to baptism infringed , which argues that therefore covenant-interest is not sufficient title to baptism without repentance , nor is thereby any reason given of r●pentance being required by peter afore baptism : nor is there any proof in master cobbet why more should be required to baptism of the adult jewes , then of their unripe children , onely he tels of their practice in new england , that when any are received to fellowship with them , though they being as transient members by vertue of communion of churches , are admitted upon their former church-ingagement , yet desirous to be fixed members , they require testimony of their repentance of their former church-sins and personal scandals therein committed , not so of their children not sui juris , nor capable of personal satisfaction , so it was with them , acts . being to be incorporated into a purer company , exhibiting the ordinances of christ in a more perfect evangelical way . but setting aside the question , whether this course in new england be justifiable and by what rule they require more of the fixed member then of the transient , the defilement being alike in both . . it is not true that it was so with the jewes and their children as with fixed and transient members in n. e. for neither was the church of the jewes then an evangelical church less perfect then that of the apostles , but openly opposite to christ and the christian church : nor was that which those jewes perplexed did propound , that they might be of their church as a purer church , but what peter and the apostles would advise them to do to free them from the guilt of crucifying christ. nor doth peter at all as an elder assign repentance to them for admission to outward church-priviledges , but as an apostle preacheth to them repentance for remission of sins and easing their consciences , which was an act of doctrine , not of jurisdiction . . if it had been so , yet neither doth this prove that the apostle required more of the aged jewes to baptism then formerly , nor that he did it because they were to be inco●porated into a purer company exhibiting the ordinances of christ in a more perfect evangelical way , nor that he did require more of the fathers then the children to baptism ; nor is the argument infringed , that if covenant-interest intitle to baptism of it self without repentance the father to whom the promise is as well as the child , yea , in priority to the child , who derives his title from the fathers covenant-interest , then it should much more intitle the father to baptism without repentance : idem qua idem semper facit idem , so that after so many shifts , absurdities , unproved dictates , vain dreames of making the case of the jewes like persons received into fellowship in n. e. and the overweening conceit of the purity of their church , and exhibition of the ordinances of christ in a more perfect evangelical way , there is nothing yet produced to invalidate the argument from peters requiring repentance of the jewes afore baptism , against the connexion between covenant-interest and right to baptism . master cobbet goes on thus : nor must that needs follow , that because it 's said , they were added to the church , that therefore they were not of the church before , but after peter spake those words , v. . the promise is to you , &c. for this is as well spoken after that expression that they were baptized , as after that mentioned , of their receiving the word gladly , and yet will our opposites conclude , that therefore they were not of the church , nor in the covenant before they were baptized , but came into that estate by baptism . if baptism were the form of the church , or that which they so much urge wholly failed , that a person must be first discipled , and so in covenant and church-estate before he be baptized . ans. either i understand not the force of words . or else it is a cleer argument , acts . . and there were added in that day souls about three thousand , v. . and the lord added the saved daily to the church , and these were of the jewes , therefore jewes were not of the church before that day , and that addition . for what is addition to a company but a joyning or bringing one more to them then was before ? even as in arithmetick addition is putting to another member then was before reckoned . and this argument seems so plain to me , that i count the denial of it as the denial of a common notion . that which master cobbet answers is to the argument framed thus , they are not said to be added till after peters speech , v. . therefore they were not of the church before ; and i confess the argument so framed is not so cogent , sith historians do not alwaies relate things in order as they were done . yet supposing lukes relation orderly ( of which there is no cause to doubt , sith the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then v. . shew it ) the argument is good , after peters words it is said , then , and that day were added , therefore they were not before of the church . nor do i know any absurdity in it to say they were added by baptism to the church , it being one means of addition to the church , and though i say not that baptism is the form of the church , but that there may be a church without baptism , nor the onely way of adding to the church , for the preaching of the word is also a means of adding to it , yet this i say , that neither is a church regular , nor the addition as it should be without baptism . and though i say a person is to be discipled afore he be baptized , yet he may be baptized afore he is in some sense in covenant and church-estate , meaning in covenant by gods promise to him , and in church-estate , that is , so as to be reckoned a member of a visible church in compleat fellowship of other ordinances with it . master cobbet proceeds thus . nor is that cogent , which is urged against the childrens right in the promise , and unto baptism , that they should be so priviledged , when they came to be effectually called , and to be turned from their sins , as if this were quoad homines , their onely rule of judging of persons visible interest in the covenant of grace , or visible right to the initiatory seal thereof : or at least the onely way of having such a visible interest in the visible churches cour● . for besides that it was not so of old , in applying of circumcision , as gods appointed seal of the parties visible covenant-estate and right : even with us also it is not the rule in foro ecclesia ; for then none are by the church to be by rule admitted to baptism , but such as are effectually called , and then john which knew , that the most of them , which he baptized , would be as chaffe in the floor , he kept not rule in baptizing of them . or if calling be taken for external inviting in the word preached ; and offer of christ , that i suppose will not be pleaded ; for then every hearer should be forthwith baptized , albeit an indian or black●more ; but calling as taken in reference to baptizing unto remission of sins , seemeth to be rather calling into visible covenant , and church-estate ; unto which some , whose was the promise intentionally , yet were afar off from that estate actually at present , but when called to it , they were then to be baptized . ans. the objection answered here by master cobbet ( if this passage here relate to my examen , as it 's likely it doth ) was thus formed , exam. pag. , , . exercit. sect . . the promise , acts . . is neither to fathers , nor their children , nor those afar off without calling , therefore nor to infants , who are not called by the lord , and this calling i conceive an effectual calling to the fellowship of his son jesus christ , as the apostle speaks , cor. . . master cobbet doting on his own frivolous exposition of the being of the promise in respect of external right and administration , propounds the objection as if the objectour agreed with him therein , and then the absurdities i confess would follow , which master cobbet drawes from the objection as thus interpreted [ the promise is in respect of external right and administration , to none but the effectually called ] that the onely rule to judg a persons visible right to baptism , and the onely way of having such a right is effectual calling . but master cobbet might have understood that i still disclaimed this , that right to baptism is from interest in gods promise or covenant , and have asserted ; that is onely from the persons own profession of christ and covenanting to be his disciple , and for the promise , acts . . i understand it of christ sent for remission of sins , and thus it is most true , that the promise is neither to father nor child uncalled ; what therefore master cobbet refutes is not owned by me , yet his refutation i count not valid . for that which he allegeth , it was not so in circumcision , therefore it must not be so in baptism , proceeds on this mistake that the rule of circumcision is a rule about baptism . and for that which he saith , that john knew that the most of them which he baptized , would be as chaffe in the floor , i conceive not true , nor doth it appear that john did admit to baptism those he knew were hypocrites and reprobates . pareus , comm. in matth. . . non ad baptismum indignos admisi● , and of all others me thinks a new england teacher should not alledge that , which , if it were true , would condemn their strictness in admission of members into their churches , excluding them whom they are not satisfied to be truly regenerate , so far as they can discern . for doubtless whom john baptized they may and ought admit to church-membership . and this plea is made by master norton , resp. ad apollon . c. . propos . . for the new england strictness that john baptist repelled hypocrites from baptism . now to the objection as i conceive it in the answer is insufficient , master cobbet denies that the words [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] do circumscribe [ to you and your children ] as well as [ all that are afar off , acts . . ] but then he would have it to be meant of calling into visible covenant , and church-estate , in which he would have infants included : but the scripture speaks of no such calling , and both that conceit , and master cobbets exposition conformable to it , have been so fully refuted before , that i shall add no more . onely whereas he saith , that if calling were taken for external inviting in the word preached , and offer of christ , then every hearer should be baptized forthwith , albeit an indian or blackamore . i conceive it will not follow , sith they that would have all outwardly called by the offer of christ baptized , it 's likely do mean it of such a calling as is with effect , so as that the person called be brought to outward profession at least of the faith of christ. master cobbet addes three considerations to prove , that infants not capable of actual repentance . were not in defect of that repentance , excluded from the promise mentioned , acts . , . which i might grant understanding it of the promise of remission of sins before god and of elect infants , and yet no proof thence for infant-baptism . but because master cobbet takes the promise to be in respect of external right and administration , and that from it there 's a title derived for infant-baptism . i shall consider what he saies . . such a supposed exclusion of their babes had been , to lay an occasion , and addition of more cumbers and trouble to the darkened disquieted spirits of his hearers , then to clear and ease them , supposing , as is undeniably evident that their wish against their poor children , pressed them sore , as well as other guilt . it was all along thitherto , a received truth , that god was a god to their seed externally , by vertue of abrahams covenant they were his adopted children , ezek. . . and the churches children , which she ba●e to the lord , v. . see deut. . . and it was evident , by gods own appointment of circumcision , to be the initiatory seal , not to a blanck , but to his covenant of being a god to them whilest babes , and before circumcised in heart , so as actually to repent , deut. . . this their babes had external right unto whilest these their parents were convinced or unwrought upon , remaining uncut off by censures from the church , as of old , ezek. . , . is mentioned of those idolaters . now if not so when their parents are wrought upon by peters sermon , as the parents were thus far losers , by christ and his gospel , and the efficacy thereof , losing that precious parental priviledge which they had before this of their childrens federal in●erest , and priviledge of abrahams covenant , so also their children are losers too , by their parents coming so far on to christ , coming now thus to be excluded their former covenant-right and neither parents nor children to have any covenant-right and priviledge in lieu hereof . how such doctrine might well stumble , and trouble such parents , let any sober and judicious mind judg ; to be sure they have a load of guilt , and given a deadly wound unto their poor babes , by that curse of theirs : now if they are as pagans , strangers from the covenant , then there is no hope , in reference to ordinary and revealed grounds and wayes of hope and life , ephes. . , , . ans , this long tale hath more of childish affection then manly reason , setting aside the new language of initiory seal set to a blanck , childrens federal interest , precious parental priviledge , cavenant right , and such like gibberish according to the paedobaptists supositions about the imagined covenant to father and child , right of infants to the first seal thereby , and this a great priviledge without which no revealed grounds ordinary of hope and life , this is the substance of the tale , that if peter had told them their infants were not to be baptized , who before were circumcised he had added more grief to the spirits of the jewes pressed with the sense of their wish against their children , matth. . . and therefore he is to be conceived , acts . . to have told them of their infants right to baptism . now surely in my apprehension if peter had told them such a tale , as master cobbet imagins he did ; even then when so great perplexity of spirit was upon them by reason of the horrid sin of crucifying christ , and their imprecation on them and their children , they being then indisposed to laughter , must in all likelyhood have been much moved either with grief , or anger against such a doctor , as would mock them with such a receipt , as was no more to their disease then the promise of a feather to weare is to revive a man almost dead with the pain of the collick . for what comfort could this be to them concerning themselves , who expected the heaviest wrath due to them for their sin , or concerning their children on whom they wished a most heavy curse , to be told of a priviledge for them and their children , which as it was to them before , was painfull in the use , so was it a heavy yoke in the obligation , to be continued in an other rite which of it self was but washing with cold water , and in the fruit of it before god yielded no benefit without faith and repentance , and in the church yielded at best but a title of church-membership , by which they had no benefit , but what they might have without it , no● would stand them in any stead for church-communion without their actual believing ? it is clear , acts . . is an encouragement to the duties , and expectation of the good mentioned , v. . now what encouragement is it to repent , to be told that the promise was already to them in external right and administration , and to their infants , though not as yet penitent or believers ? such a motive might rather have tended to keep them in impenitency being in so good case already in the estate they were in . and for baptism into the name of christ , such a motive tended rather to disswade them from it , as might fill their mindes with high conceits of their and their childrens covenant-right , even by vertue of their being in the jewish church without faith in christ , or joyning to the christian church . and for the good of remission of sins before god which they needed , what assurance could they have of it by telling them of their and their childrens having the promise already as jews , without personal faith and repentance in external right and administration before men ? as for the falsity of the speech as expounded by master cobbet , it is shewed before , what he would burden his opposites with , as if denyeng infant-baptism , they counted them as pagans , strangers from the covenant , without hope , in reference to ordinary and revealed grounds and ways of hope and life , ephes. . , . . is a meer calumny . for setting aside their talk of initiatory seal , and external covenant ( which they cannot say assure life to the infants of believers without election ) we assure as much by the covenant of grace , justification by christs bloud , and sanctification by his spirit , which is effectual calling , and they can in trueth assure no more , nor any other way , though to uphold their credit , and to win the affections of credulous parents , they befool them with idle talk of a covenant which the scripture never mentions , and of sealing that covenant by baptism , which the scripture is silent of . the texts ezek. . , . deut : . . will be examined afterwards . why he bids see deut. . . i know not . unless it be that we may discern his weakness in alledging the scriptures impertinently , sith it cannot be meant of infants to whom the revealed things do not belong , that they may heare them and do them in infancy . the second consideration is in brief this , that the apostles who as yet preached not for the abolishing of mosaical rites , but were indulgent to the jewes , acts . , , , . would not give such manifest and just offence to them as to hold forth an exclusion of their babes from right in that covenant of abraham it self , whereof circumcision was a visible seal , as the places quoted in gen. . , . and acts . . declare . to which i answer , by my exposition there is no exclusion of babes from the promise , acts . . though it be restrained to those who are effectually called , sith babes may be said to be effectually called by the spirit of god according to election : nor doth my exposition exclude the jewes infants from the covenant , gen. . . or circumcision , or in the least manner meddle with that point . nor do i think the promise , gen. . . to be the same with that , acts . . if it were , yet how it may be understood otherwise then master cobbet conceives is shewed above . the third consideration , setting aside his phraseology is this , that if peter should intend to exclude infants from baptism , it were to be cross to pauls doctrine , rom. . . who makes it christs end not to evacuate , undermine , or abolish by his coming , [ the promises ] indefinitely made to the fathers whether in , gen. . . or deut. . . or the like , or respecting parents or children , but to confirm the same , ibid. but how this consequence is made good i cannot conceive , but do deny it , and expect a proof of it ad graecas calendas . master cobbet concludes the chapter with an answer to the objection , that if this were granted of those jewish children , what is this to our childrens federal interest in the daies of the gospel ? and he answers , . that it proveth that by the apostles since christs ascension , this tenent of the children of visible members of the church are visibly interessed in the covenant of grace is of divine authority , and i● no humane invention . ans. . in the objection , the concession was that those jewish children were never before denyed to be visibly in abrahams covenant , which master cobbet alters , thus [ are visibly interessed in the covenant of grace ] now it may be granted those jewish children were visibly in abrahams covenant , and yet denyed , that they are visibly interessed in the covenant of grace , the covenants being not the same every way , and it being certain , as in the case of saul and others , a person may be visibly interessed in the covenant of abraham , and yet not in the covenant of grace . . infants visible interest in the covenant of abraham i know no otherwise , then by circumcision , and this sure the apostles taught of no other then the jewish children . . the text , acts . . speaks not of visible interest in the covenant of grace by external administration . . if it did , yet it speaks of none other children , but jewish , and so not of ours , and therefore the tenent may be an humane invention notwithstanding this text and the concession of the objectour . . saith master cobbet , these jewes are eyed by the apostles , as persons to partake of priviledges of a church of christians , as was baptism ; and therefore what extent of federal right and priviledge is granted by the apostles to them and theirs in that way is equally belonging to gentiles in a like way . ans. the jewes were not tyed by the apostles to partake of baptism without the repentance of each person to be baptized , nor is it by the apostle made a federal right and priviledge , but a duty to which the promise did encourage , nor is the promise said to be to them or any of their children , but the effectually called , so that were the conclusion granted master cobbet , yet his purpose is not gained that the gentiles infants are to be baptized . . saith he , to suppose god by apostolical ratification , to allow to children of jewish parents coming on to christ , &c. a larger priviledge then to gentile parents , as came on to christ , &c. is to make god a respector of persons . ans. . it is not yet proved that the apostle allowes to children of jewish parents the priviledge master cobbet means . . the jewes , acts . . were not considered as coming on to christ , but as guilty of crucifying him , and under horrour of conscience for it . . the priviledge of baptism or the promise in respect of external right and administration ( as master cobbets phrase is ) could not belong to the jewes at that present , & therefore the apostles speech had been false in master cobbets sense . for he cannot assert they were then come to christ , but coming on to christ , nor is it certain that many of them ever came to christ. but [ the promise is de praesenti in respect of external right and administration , which is master cobbets sense ] is false of persons which were not come to christ , except he will have the apostle assert a right of baptism to them without faith . . the jewish parents children had then a larger priviledge then the gentiles in the first offer of the gospel , as they had larger priviledges before , rom. . , , . and they shall have larger priviledges at their calling hereafter if i understand the apostle , rom. . , , , , . and herein god is not such a respector of persons as peter , acts . . denies him to be so , as not to accept a gentile who feareth him and worketh righteousness as well as a jew . acts of special grace undue to some persons , not to others , argue not unjust respect of persons in god , but acts of judgment awarding good to one that fears him and works righteousness , because of such a nation , and not to another , who doeth the same , because he is not of that nation , contrary to his declarations , promises , lawes , by which he hath bound himself ; would argue unjust prosopolepsy , his declarations , promises , and lawes being general , and so the being of that nation extirnsecal to the cause . saith he , the force of the words seem to carry it , that the same promise which was to those jewes actually in church and covenant-estate , was intentionally to these afar off , which were strangers actually from a like estate , whether those of the ten tribes , or rather those of the gentiles , and should be actually to them , when they came to be called actually into the fellowship of that covenant and church-estate . now what promise was that ? verily a promise which carried with it a partial reference unto their children : the promise is to you , and to your children : and the same is unto them afar off , whom god shall call , scil. in reference to their children also . ans. there is no colour from the words that , acts . . the promise is meant to be actually to those jewes , and intentionally to those afar off , nor doth this conceit agree with master cobbets exposition , who will have it to be de praesenti to belong to the persons recited , and consequently actually to all there named ; nor do i know how to make true sense of this his speech . for the promise is either said to be in respect of the act of the promiser , or of the thing promised . in the former sense the meaning of master cobbet should be this , that god had made the promise to the jewes already actually , but he had not made the promise to those afar off , but intended to do it afterwards . but this sense agrees not with master cobbets and other paedobaptists conceit , who would have the promise to be that to abraham , gen. . . but that promise was made almost years before , not made to those jewes then , nor to any afar off afterwards that can be shewed . in respect of the thing promised , whether it be ( as i say ) christ manifested in the flesh for the remission of sins before god , it is not true that it was actually then to the jewes mentioned , acts . . for they were not yet repenting believing persons , or it be meant of remission of sins in respect of external right and administration , it is not true that the promise was actually then to them , in external right , they had no right then to claim baptism , being not then believers , neither had they the promise in external administration de praesenti , for they were not actually baptized ( which i think is the external administration meant , i cannot imagine master cobbet would be so vain as to conceive peter told them , they were circumcised ) but peter exhorts them to be baptized , and therefore the promise was no more actually to the jewes then present , then to those afar off . nor is it true that the jewes present were then actually in church and covenant-estate , if it be meant of the christian church , and covenant of grace in christ , for they were not repenting believers ; and if it be meant of the jewish church , and covenant-estate which they had as descended from abraham by natural descent , and by reason of circumcision , so the gentiles were never ealled or to be called actually into that fellowship of that covenant , and church-estate , but rather out of it : nor if they had been called into it , had that church and covenant-estate at all conduced to their interest into the christian church and covenant of grace , but rather to the contrary . and for the promise it is true , there is a reference to their children , but not because they were believers children or their children , but by vertue of gods call , and it is true the promise is to gentiles child●en and jewes when called of god , and no otherwise , and consequently no birth-priviledge to either intitling to baptism . and thus is that magnified chapter of master cobbet abundantly answered . sect . xxiii . master sidenhams notes on acts . . in his exercitation ch . . are considered . i shall adde a consideration of what master sidenham notes on acts . . that i may at once shew the impertinency of its allegation for connexion between the covenant and baptism , and infants of believe●s covenant-interest upon that consideration ▪ i agree with him that the promise is of remission of sins and so of salvation . nor do i deny it to be suitable to what is promised , gen. . . understanding it not , as paedobaptists and among them master sidenham conceives , as a promise to each believer and his natural seed , but as a promise to abraham as the ●ather of believers , and his spiritual seed by the following of his faith of righteousness before god repeated at large , jerem. . . nor do i mistake his making it the same with the promise of christ , and the spirit , as , gal. . . is meant including justification , sanctification , and all graces . and his words i conceive very opposite to overthrow master cobbets and others conceit of external right and administration , when he saith , it would be but a poor comfort to a wounded soul for to tell him of a promise of gifts , not of spiritual grace , and the holy ghost is a better physician then to imply such a raw improper plaister to a wounded heart , which would hardly heal the skin , this promise is brought in as a cordial to keep them from fainting , and to give them spirits to believe , and lay hold on jesus christ. and truly no other promise but that of free-grace , in order to salvation , can be imagined to give them comfort in that condition . and after , and it must needs have been a mighty low , and disproportionable way of perswasion , to put them upon such high things in the former verse , and to encourage them onely by the narration of some temporary gifts in the following , when their eye and heart was set on remission of sins , and salvation by jesus christ ; and nothing but a promise holding forth these mercies could have been considerable to them . nor do i deny that the children as well as the parents are included in this promise , nor do i deny but that the children are invited to baptism by the promise as well as the parents . but i deny , . that the mention of the promise to them and their children was allusive to the expressions in the old testament , when god said to abraham i will be the god of thee and thy seed , gen. . . or that , isai . . and such like , nor hath mr. sidenham proved it , and there is this reason against it . for in those expressions the fathers are mentioned as righteous persons , and believers ▪ but here the parents could not be considered as righteous and believing persons , for they were not such , but then charged by peter , and at that time under the sense of the great sin of killing christ , and admonished to repent of it , and therefore the words have clearly this sense , the promise is to you , and your children as bad as you have been , and the mention of their children is not allusive to gods expressions in the old testament , but to their own curse on them and their children , matth. . . and so cannot note a priviledge to them and their children as persons better then others , but an assurance to them of that good which they feared their sin debarred them of , by telling them of gods inrent for good according to his promise , though they meant it for evil , as the same apostle doth , acts . , , . and joseph did , gen. . . and . . . i deny that the children are invited to baptism by the promise as giving title to baptism of it self , for the promise is urged as a motive to a duty , not as a plea whereby they might claim , nor was their interest in the promise the antecedent to baptism , but the consequent on it . for the promise whether it be of remission of sins , or of the saving gift of the holy ghost allowing master . sidenhams observation that it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is certain that peter did assure them of it not as yet already attained , but as attainable , not before , but upon their repentance and baptism , neither to them , nor to their children as their children ; but to them and their children , and all afar off as many as the lord should call . . he doth not invite them to baptism , but so as that he first puts them in minde of repentance . now if the promise had been alledged as giving title of it self to baptism , he had left out repentance : but putting it in first , he plainly shewes , that the alledging of the promise was as well to move them to repentance as to baptism , and first to repentance , then to baptism ; nor is any other course taken with the children then the parents , the promise and duty are declared in like manner to both . and therefore master sidenhams talk of peters speaking in the known dialect of the old testament , that if he had not meant upon their believing and baptism without any other consideration of gods calling or their repentance the children to be in the promise , he had deceived them , and that there was no other intent in mentioning the promise but to intimate that as the jewes and their infant males were circumcised by vertue of the promise , so it should be to them in baptism , is but vai● without proof , and without truth . but master sidenham asserts that the words [ as many as the lord shall call ] can in no sense be referred to the former part of the verse , either to parents or children ; which if true , then according to his own interpretation of the promise the apostle asserts , that the promise of remission of sins and of the spirit including justification , sanctification , and all graces , was to them and their children , whether called or no. but let 's view his reasons for this audacious assertion . for , saith he , . he changes the sense in both parts of the verse ; in the first part unto the jewes , he speaks de praesenti , of the present application of the promise ; repent you and be baptized — ; for the promise is to you and your children : even now the promise is offered to you ; and they were then under the call of god ; but when he speaks of the gentiles , because they were yet afar off , and not at all called , he speak de futuro , as many as god shall call , even of them also ; which is the first hint of the calling of the gentiles in all the acts of the apostles . ans. the apostle changeth not the tense of the same ve●b in either part of , v. . for there are but two verbs in the verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and neither used above once , so that he might have said , he useth two verbs in two tenses , but neither change●h in one or both parts of the verse the same verb or the same tense of the same verb. but what if he had changed the tense , and had said , the promise is to you and your children whom he now calls , and the promise shall be to all that are afar off as many as god shall call even of them also , did it follow that in no sense the words ( as many as the lord shall call ) can be referred to the former part of the verse , either to parents or children ? surely if i have any understanding , the contrary followes , that if the meaning were ▪ the promise even now is offered to you , and they were then under the call of god , but not yet called , the words may be referred to the former part of the verse to parents and children , thus the promise of remission of sins is now offered to you and your children under the call of god to be attained by as many as the lord our god shall effectually call at this time , and hereafter . but how stands it with other paedobaptists applications of this seripture , as if the promise did de praesenti belong to the children in external right and administration , and a covenant-right in them , and title to the initial seal , and yet the promise onely offered to them , and they not called , but under the call of god. if the offer of the promise , and a call in fieri which is not in facto esse be sufficient to intitle men to the promise in external right , and to the initial ieal , then had those jewes which believed not , acts . . and the athenians , acts . . such right and title . master sidenham will have infants by the words [ your children ] will he say the promise was then offered to them , and they then under the call of god ? if he did , he should tell how that we might understand it . and there is need he should shew some reason and proof of that his paraphrase , which is not yet done , ere his reader ( if he be wise ) will receive it . and for what he saith that in that verse there is an exact distribution of the world into jew and gentile , the gentiles being usually those afar off , it requires better proof then this , sith neither is the term jew expressed , nor the term [ afar off ] used of the gentiles that i know but , ephes. . . where it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which may be questioned whether it be the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the text . but master sidenham addes . . how unequal would the distribution ●e of this verse , not suitable to the lawes of expression among rational men ? if as many as the lord shall call , should be a limitation to the former part of the verse , the word children , must needs be redundant and superfluous ; for jewes and gentiles comprehend all the world . now children must either be one part of the world , or comprehend under one or both names , or be a distinct world by themselves , neither jewes nor gentiles : and this must needs follow on such a reading of the words ; for the design of the apostle is to hold forth the freeness of the promise to jew and gentile , and their children , to these jewes at present , to the gentiles and their children when god shall call the parents , as he did these jewes . ans. master sidenham hath printed here such a toy as might please himself , but is fit for nothing but to be slighted . for , . he supposeth that [ you and those afar off ] is as much as jewes and gentiles , which is not proved . . he supposeth consequently [ you and those afar off ] to comprehend all the world , because jewes and gantiles comprehend all the world . but this followes not , though the term [ you ] note jewes , if it note onely some jewes , to wit , those to whom peter then spake . . that if [ as the lord shall call ] should be a limitation to the former part of the verse , the word children , must needs be redundant and superfluous , for jewes and gentiles comprehend all the world . which indeed followes on his conceit that here is an exact distribution of the world into jew and genrile . but this is manifestly false , for though [ they afar off ] should be the gentiles , yet all the gentiles are not therein comprehended , but those that are called ; and if the term [ you ] note the jewes , yet in notes not all the jewes , but such as were parents , and therefore the term [ children ] is necessary being not comprehended under the term [ you ] and it is alike necessary to express them distinctly , whether the limitation [ as many as the lord shall call ] be applyed to the former part of the verse or to the latter onely , so that i can yet see no reason of master sidenhams conceit , that such a referring of the limitation [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] to the first part of the v. as i make , would cause the distribution of this v. to be so unequal as not to be suitable to the lawes of expression among rational men . and to what he addes further i say [ children ] were one part of the world , and comprehended under jewes , but how this must needs follow on such a reading of the words as puts [ as many as the lord shall call ] to the first part of the verse any more then to the latter onely i see not ? nor if it did , do i know any absurdity in it , no nor any opposition to what he makes the apostles designes . but let 's see what he makes of all this to his purpose . he tels us , now put children by themselves a third party , and add , whom the lord shall call , and you exclude them from being etiher jewes or gentiles , and so excommunicate them from any hopes of calling , or being saved . to which i say , if i doated like master sidenham , making [ you and those afar off ] synonymous to jewes , and gentiles in general , when the terms note onely some in particular , and put [ children ] by themselves as a third party , i should exclude them from being jewes or gentiles , whether i added to the first part of the v. the words [ as many as the lord shall call ] or did otherwise . and if i made all that are called and saved to be comprehended under [ you and those afar off ] as synonymous to jewes and gentilas in general , and excluded [ children ] as neither i should excommunicate them a● he saith . but that either any such thing followes on the limiting of the former part of the v. by those words [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] or any other of my sayings , is neither proved by master sidenham nor any other , nor ever will. but master sidenham goes on : now this is , . contrary to that known rule in logick , that omnis bona distributio debet esse bimembris ; onely of two members , and those opposite one to another ; to bring in a third marres all . this then he imagines that if [ your children ] be a third party , and not either [ you or those afar off ] a logick rule would be broken . but whose logick rule is that he mentions ? i confess there have been logicians who have affected dichotonie , but when they have tyed themselves to it , they have been censured as guilty of accurate vanity by burgersdicius inst. log . l. . c. . keck . syst. log. l. . part . . c. . and others . scheibler top. c. . n. . bounds it with sundry cautions . and indeed we must cashier many received divisions if that rule hold as e. g. in morality of good into honest , pleasant and profitable , in divinity of the law into moral , ceremonial and judicial , of the divine persons into the father , son and holy ghost , of the bookes of the old testament into moses , the prophets and the psalmes and so blame christ himself . what master sidenham infers , so that it is most clear the words must be understood , as they are translated , is not denyed by me , and yet the words , [ acts . . as many as the lord our god shall call ] limit the first part of the v. nor do i deny the promise is to you jewes , and your children at present , to express the apostles meaning in the sense i have given , nor do i gainsay what he addes , and to those afar off also and their children , when god shall call them , if he mean it of the calling the chileren as well as the parents ; though withall it is to be noted , that in the text there is no mention of the children of those afar off . but what he saith further , else ( that is , if the promise be not to the children of those afar off when god shall call the parents ) calling can with no sense be applyed to any tittle of the former part of the verse , without you make it monstrous , and unlike it self , is either false or unintelligible by me . for though the promise should not be to the children of those afar off , when god called the parents , yet this is in my apprehension good sense , the promise is to you being called , and to your children being called , nor is any monstrosity or unlikeness to it self more in this sense then if the term [ called ] were applyed only to the latter part : but there would be non-sense , if the distribution were reduced to dichotomie as master sidenham would have it , and the proposition would be false , that the promise ( which master sidenham makes to be of remission of sins , christ and his spirit , justification , sanctification , and all graces ) is to them or their children without calling , or though god should not call them . there is some more of the like stuff in that which followes . . it 's against another rule about distribution which is , that partes divisionis ambulent equali passu , that the parts of a distribution should be equally set together . now here will be a mighty inequality , as to the communication of the promise ; if the words should be taken in their sense , the jewes will have a greater priviledge then the gentiles , if children be not equally added to both , the jewes had the promise made to them , and their children at present , these afar off shall onely have the promise to themselves , but not their children . ans. it is one of the vexations that befals men that write bookes that they are necessitated to answer such silly scriblings : but so we must do or else the world will be befooled with that which is most vain . the objection to which this author answers is , that the latter clause , as many as the lord shall call , is a limitation of the verse , and no more are under the promise , and so children , if god shall call them , shall also enjoy the promise ; now that which he contends for is , that [ children ] is to be added equally to both parts of the v. ( which was not in question ) but shewes not the promise to be to the children if god call them not , which is the thing in question . and as he shootes besides the mark , proving what was not to be proved , so his argument is nothing to that he takes on him to prove . he sets down a rule in logick , which i find in scheibler , ●op . c. . n. . with this explication , hoc est , sumantur ex eodem genere . but in this sense it seemes this author meant it , that the thing divided be communicated equally to the parts of the division , it is not true . for then the division of being into substance and accident , god and the creature , with many more , were not right divisions . but were his rule right , as he means it , ( as it is not ) yet it is nothing to his purpose . he would prove , if children be not equally added to both parts of the v. acts . . then the jewes will have a greater priviledge then the gentiles ( which might be granted without absurdity ) for there would be a mighty inequality , as to the communication of the promise , which is against the rule of logick he mentions , as if the promise or the communication of the promise were a whole divided into parts , and one part were the jewes and their children , and the other were the gentiles and their children , which were ridiculous ; nor do i know any other way he can understand his arguing from this logick rule , but that it will appear alike frivolous . but the reader ( i doubt ) will think i insist too much in answering such trifles . i go on therefore . . saith he , consider , how comes this word ( your children ) to be kept in , for what end and use , if it were not to shew some spiritual priviledge they have with their parents , when god calls or converts the parents ? what stands it for but a stone of offence to consciencious hearts ? ans. . he asserts in this passage that ( your children ) is kept in to shew some spiritual priviledge they have with their parents , when god calls or converts the parent ? but a little before he observed a change in the tense in both parts of the verse ; in the first part unto the jewes , he speaks de praeseuti , of the present application of the promise , and supposeth under the call of god already ; here ( your children ) is to shew a speciall priviledge , when god calls or converts the parent , which intimates that he had not then called or converted the parent . and therefore the one passage crosseth the other . . he had said before , that ( as many as the lord shall call ) can in no sense be referred to the former part of the verse either to parents or children , and yet here he refers it in a necessary sense , as he conceives , to the parent . . if the special priviledge to the children doth suppose the parents call , why not also the childrens call ? . yea the special priviledge in the text to the father and child is the promise , and that master sidenham makes to be of justification , sanctification , and all graces , and can he imagine this promise to be to a child barely on the parents call without his own personal calling by god ? i think he durst not assert it : if he did , i am sure it is false as being contrary to rom. . . and therefore of necessity to make his own exposition good , we must limit the former part of the verse , in what is said both of parent and child by the words [ as many as the lord our god shall call ] . as for his questions , why [ your children ] is in the verse , it hath been answered , because of their imprecation , matth. . . to which he replies thus : to see the sad shift of errour is wonderful : can any man imagine , that the parents could doubt more , or so much of their childrens being accepted , and saved , when god should call them who were innocent , and only under the sudden rash curse of their parents , when they saw that the promise was to themselves , who were the actual murtherers of the lord jesus . answ. to me who am so well acquainted with the shifts of paedobaptists , it is not wonderful to see the shifts of errour . this very reply what is it but a vain shift ? for he supposeth the children were innocent , which he cannot prove , and that the curse was sudden and rash , which seems rather to have been deliberate , and that they saw the promise was to themselves , and christ offered pardon to themselves , when there was nothing but horrour on their consciences for crucifying christ till after peters speech to them , and that if the parents were not imagined to doubt more or so much of their childrens being accepted and saved as themselves , then there was no reason to insert [ your children ] by occasion of the imprecation , matth. . . whereas if they doubted any whit , yea if for the present they did not think on that curse , yet might afterwards as there was cause they should , there was reason enough for peter to insert those words whether they tended to take away a present , or possible fear in them concerning their children . but there is more of his trifling yet behind . . saith he , such a consideration would rather sadden them then refresh them , to mention the calling of their children : for they might more doubt of that , then of any thing , whether god would call them or no , and be as far to seek as ever they were , that they would have but cold comfort upon this account ; this was enough to break their hearts if that were in their eye . answ. the phrase [ and be as far to seek as ever they were ] intimates the jews had attained some comfort before this speech of peter ( which is manifestly false from the text ) and that telling them that the promise was to their children if called by god would rather sadden them then refresh them , it was cold comfort , enough to break their hearts if that were in their eye : which is in effect all one as if a man should say , when a man is in a swoon hot water will rather sadden him then refresh him , or when a man is sad , it is cold comfort enough to break his heart to give him a cup of sack. but mr. sidenham will not be thought sine ratione delirare . for , saith he , they might doubt more of that , then of any thing , whether god would call them or no. what ? was it likely they should doubt more of their childrens calling and pardon , if they were called , then of their own pardon , who were then under horrour of soul for their own grand crime of killing christ ? or if they did thus doubt , would it break their heart to be told that there was a possibility and hope that the promise was to their children , who might be called ? i have heard that if it were not for hope the heart would break : but i never heard that the telling of a person of a thing of which there was hope , though he might doubt of it , would break his heart . but master sidenham addes . the old way of conveying the promise is cut off , no promise but to called ones : our poor children are uncalled , and god knows whether ever they may be called of god : thus might they reason . ans. it s true , they might thus reason : but that they did , or by peters words , as expounded by me , were likely to reason thus , is against reason to imagine . the old way of conveying the promise i imagine he means the giving the initial seal to their infants , that is , circumcision . now will any sober man think that in that perplexity they were in through conscience of their guilt , and danger of wrath impending on their children by reason of their impious curse , when peter tells them to stay them from despair , that yet in christ sent the promise was fulfilled for remission of sins to them and their children , if each of them were called of god , that is , did repent and believe , that they would repel this comfort by questioning the losse of circumcision , and bemoaning the want of it to their infants ? i know the jews were zealous after for circumcision and the law , even those who became christians , yet sure in that perplexity there was not the least thought of such a poor priviledg as an initial seal , but of the freedome of themselves and children from their guilt and curse . but i would know where this doctrine is , that circumcision conveys the promises , or is the old way of conveying them , and what scripture saith the promise ( of remission of sins here meant , as master sidenham himself expounds it ) is to any but called ones . paul saith , rom. . . whom he hath called , them he hath justified . hos & non alios , saith augustine , and orthodox protestants , as from the text may be evinced , sith all these agree to the same persons to be predestinate , called , justified , glorified . is this such doctrine as were enough to break their hearts ? but let 's hear him out . but when he includes them in the same promise with parents , and exhorts the parents to repent upon this ground , that the promise is to them and their children ; this savours like a gospel comforting-exhortation , and could not be but of great efficacy upon their spirits . answ. me thinks it should be comfortable to them , that the promise was to them and their children upon condition of calling , that is , sanctification , repentance , believing : it is antinomian doctrine , not gospel , to say , justification is to a person uncalled , that afore he believes he is justified actually before god , even while he lives in the height of sin . it is true the promises of the land of canaan and other benefits were to abrahams natural seed : but the gospel-promises of remission of sins and everlasting life in christ , were never to abrahams or any believing parents natural seed as such , but only to abrahams spiritual seed elect and true believers . master sidenham addes . . what strange mysterious tautologies would be in this one verse ? if that last sentence should refer to all the former expressions , we must read it thus to make out their sense . the promise is to you parents of the jews , when god shall call you , ( and they were then under call ) and to your grown children , when god shall call them ; and to all which are afar off , when god shall call them : can any man with his understanding about him think the holy ghost should faulter so much in common expression of his minde , when there was no need of adding of calling to any part , but to those that are afar off , who never were yet under gods gospel call ? answ. there 's neither tautology , nor mystery in limiting the promise to the called of the jew parents and children , nor doth any thing make it seem strange , but ignorance . tautology is not , sith the propositions are three distinct ones in words and sense , it is not the same to say , the promise is to you called , the promise is to your children called , the promise is to all that are afar off called ▪ you , your children , all that are afar off being different tearms . mystery is no more , if it be added to the former part of the verse then to the latter . the calling in the latter part of the verse can be understood of no other than effectual calling , whether inward onely , or both inward , and outward , for to none other of the gentiles is the promise of remission of sins . and for the same reason the limitation is necessary to be added to the former part of the verse ; nor can any good reason be given why the promise should be to the jews and their children without calling by god , and not to those afar off without it ; the jews were then under call , but were not then called , nor doth mr. sidenham say they were , and therefore peter might aptly enough say to them , the promise is to ●s many of you as the lord our god shall call . the manner of expression is usual to put after a distribution of persons the limitation in common . there is the like , acts . , where as many as have spoken limits the prophets from samuel , and those that follow after . had mr. sidenham understanding in him of these things , he had not charged my exposition with making the holy ghost faulter in common expression of his mind . such censures ill become such a smattering scribler . but who so bold as blinde bayard ? it follows lastly , saith he , the word , children , may and must he understood of little ones , infants , not of adult and grown persons , for these reasons . answ. boldly said like a young hotspur . belike then when persons are ten , twelve , or more years old , they cease to be their parents children and seed . but i am willing to hear reason : . saith he , the word here ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) properly signifies an off-spring , any thing brought forth , though it be but of a day , of a moment old : thus when a woman is said to be in pain , and to bring forth , this word is used , john . . luke . . matth. . . luke . . answ. how heedlesly did this authour scribble when he said , this word ( which can be no other then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) is used , john . . luke . . matth. , . luke . . when it is used in none of those places , though the verb whence it comes is used in them . but were it used there , yet the reason is frivolous : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies a thing brought forth , ergo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 children , acts . . may not , must not be understood of adult and grown persons . he might as well have said , it must be understood but of those that are in this moment brought forth , not of an infant of a day old , and that the person brought forth is only the mothers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or child , because she only brought him forth , not the father . i did think till i met with this new master , that the holy ghost spake properly when he called persons grown to ripe age their fathers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or children , ephes. . . col. . . &c. . saith he , it s an indefinite word , and therefore may not be restrained to grown children , except god had exprest it in a peculiar phrase . answ. mr. sidenham alters the conclusion he undertook to prove , and concludes that which he findes not denied : his reason is as well against his own conclusion : it s an indefinite word , and therefore may not be restrained to infant-children except god had exprest it in a peculiar phrase . and indeed the reason is good only thus . it s an indefinite word , therefore it s to be restrained as the subject matter directs . but mr. sidenham shifts as it may serve his turn . his conclusion set down at first excluded adult children , because he knew the promise had not then been to them without calling , and so his project of drawing thence a priviledge for infants intituling them to baptisme had failed , but here his proof coming short he alters the conclusion into that which might be granted him without detriment to the cause . . saith he , it must needs be especially meant of little ones , because they are distinguished from themselves , who were men of years . now when we distinguish between men and children , we suppose the one adult , the other under age , and not grown up ; and it is contrary to all ways of expression to think otherwise . answ. belike then we must think that where it is said , matth. . . the fathers shall deliver the children to death , and the children shall rise up against the parents , and luke . . to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children , it must be especially meant of little ones , because they are distinguished from themselves who were men of years , and to think otherwise if the dr. of new-castle say true , is contrary to all ways of expression , which you may imagine he knew . . saith he , it cannot be rationally conjectured otherwise , because the apostle doth join them with their parents in the same promise , and not leave them to stand by themselves , as grown persons must . answ. belike then if any understand the promises to abraham , and his seed , to david and his seed of any other then infants it is not rationally conjectured . i have done with this writer about this text , of which he vainly talks , as he doth in the rest ; so that all things weighed , this text of scripture if there were no more , holds forth ( not to be seen ) the sameness of the promise to believers of the gospel , both jew and gentile and their children , as ever it was to abraham and his natural seed . sect . xxv . mr. marshal's reply to my examen about his first conclusion is reviewed , and the covenant gen. . still maintained to be mixt , and that gentile self justiciaries though reputed christians are not termed abraham's seed , nor gal. . . proves it , and that the distinction of outward and inward covenant is not right . i now reassume the review of mr. ms. reply to my examen of his sermon ; next , saith he , come we to examine the truth of the antecedent , which i manifested in those five conclusions opened in my sermon . but i supposed he had intended to prove by his five conclusions not onely his antecedent , but also his consequence . if i apprehend him rightly , there are none of his five conclusions but the two first that are for proving of the antecedent . but let 's view what he writes . the first whereof is this , that the covenant of grace for substance hath always been one and the same both to jews and gentiles . the first conclusion you grant , and therefore there were no need to have stayed the reader any further about it , were it not that some of your exceptions do almost recall your grant . if it be in substance the same , though you should reckon up a thousand accidental and local differences , it were nothing to the purpose . answer . it is true , i granted this conclusion understanding it according to the explication in his sermon , pag. , . in these words , that the new and living way to life was first revealed to adam immediately after his fall , and that blessed promise concerning the seed of the woman often renewed , and the patriarchs faith therein , and salvation thereby plentifully recorded in scripture : but the first time that ever it was revealed under the express name of a league or covenant was with abraham ; who because he was the first explicite covenanter is called the father of the faithfull ; and ever since clearly hath all the world been divided into two distinct bodies and families , the one called the kingdom , city , houshold of god , to which all who own the way of life were to joyn themselves ; and th●se were called the children of god , the sons of abraham , the children of the kingdom ; all the rest of the world , the kingdom of the devil , the seed of the serpent , strangers from the covenant of grace , without god in the world , &c. the substance of this covenant of grace on gods part was to be abraham's god , and the god of his seed , to be an all-sufficient portion , an all-sufficient reward for him , to give jesus christ to him , and righteousness with him both of justification , and sanctification and everlasting life , gen. . , &c. gal. . . rom. . . john . . on abraham's part the substance of the covenant was to believe the promised messiah , to walk before god with a perfect heart , to serve god according to his revealed will , to instruct his family , &c. gal. . . gen. . . & . . gal. . , . in which passage i did conceive that mr. m. meant by the substance of the covenant of grace the promise as it is purely evangelical , which i conceived to be the same with the new covenant mentioned heb. . , ▪ , . & . , . and this i was sure was not made with all abrahams natural posterity , much less with any believing gentiles natural posterity as such , but onely so many of either as are elect and believe , as rom. . , , . gal. . . is determined , and so none of a believing gentiles children are in this covenant , but they that are believers , or elected to faith in christ. but then this would not serve mr. ms. turn . and therefore notwithstanding those words in his sermon , yet in his defence pag. . he saith , the covenant of grace contains not onely saving grace , but the administration of it also in outward ordinances and church-privileges : but in what sense he means it contains them he declares not . that which is contained in a covenant is either the promise or the condition . the seal , writing , writer , pen , and such like adjuncts are never called the covenant , nor contained in it , though they be instrumental to hold forth the covenant . now where any promise is of outward ordinances and church-privileges , or how they should be a condition of the promises i understand not . he distinguisheth pag . of the covenant of grace thus , the covenant of grace is sometimes taken strictly , sometimes largely : as it is considered strictly , it is a covenant in which the spiritual benefits of justifi-fication , regeneration , perseverance , and glorification are freely promised in christ. secondly , as the covenant of grace is taken largely , it comprehends all evangelical administrations , which do wholly depend upon the free and gracious appointment of god , and this administration is fulfilled according to the counsel of gods will ; sometimes it was administred by his appointment in types , shadows , and other legal ordinances ; this covenant of administration god said zachary . . he did break with the people of the jews , and at the death of christ he did wholly evacuate and abolish , and in stead thereof brought in the administration we live under , where also he rejected the jews , or broke them off from being his people in covenant , and called the gentiles and graffed them in ramorum defractorum locum , into the place of the branch , and broken off as your self , pag. . do with beza rightly express it . but herein mr. m. confounds what in his sermon he distinguished the covenant of grace and the administration of it . he saith , the covenant of grace largely taken comprehends all evangelical administrations ; and saith , this administration is fulfilled . by the evangelical administrations he means the old legal ordinances afore christs death , and the administration we live under which is baptism and the lords supper , pag. . he saith , our divines own the outward administration of the covenant under the notion of foedus externum , the outward covenant . now if there be sense in these passages , i must needs charge my self with dulness , who cannot discern it . is it sense to call that a covenant without a trope , which is neither a promise nor a condition of a covenant ? to say that the covenant contains or comprehends evangelical administrations , and yet to call it the administration it self ? to say , this administration was administred , and not something by the administration administred ? but let us considee what others make of this distinction of covenant strictly and largely taken , or which is all one , the inward and outward covenant . i have met with none that speaks more distinctly than mr. anthony burges in his book entituled spiritual refining , sect. . serm. . pag. . who was one of the assembly . the external covenant is that whereby in an outward visible manner god doth own a people , add they externally profess their owning of him ; but yet in their hearts and souls they do not stedfastly cleave unto god , and faithfully keep this covenant in the conditions thereof . the internal or inward covenant is that whereby god doth in a spiritual powerfull manner take a people to him working in their hearts all those gifts and graces promised in the covenant as regeneration , remission of sins , adoption , and the like . and in this sense onely the truly godly are in the covenant , and they are onely gods people , and he their god. this distinction of a covenant into outward and inward is not a distinction of a genus into its species , so much as a distinction of a thing into the several administrations and dispensations of it . in this passage there is want of clearness as well as in m. marshals . he tels us negatively , that it is not a distinction of a genus into its species , yet with some mincing of the matter ( so much ) as if it might be the distinction of a genus into its species , though not so much , which is an expression of a man who would say somewhat but cannot well tell what to say . but if it be not a distinction of a genus into its species , what distinction is it ? is any man the wiser for a meer negative ? it is , saith he , a distinction of a thing into the several administrations and dispensations of it . but this tells us not what sort of distinction this is , whether nominis of the word or rei of the thing . if he had meant to be a distinction of the word he should have shewed where the word is so taken , if of the thing , what kinde of division or distribution it is . to me it seems against all rules of logick to divide thus . a covenant is either the outward or the inward administration and dispensation of it or the inward , which without trope of speech ( which should be absent from men that should rationally explain things ) is non-sense , affirming one covenant to be one administration and another another , whereas the covenant is one thing and the administration another thing . but his meaning is this , one covenant is outward being outwardly administred , or administring outward things , another inward administring inwardly or inward things . but neither is this right sith the covenant doth not administer but the covenanter , nor doth he do it by the covenant but by some other act according to the covenant , the covenant is onely an ag●eement and promise to do it , the administring is the keeping of the covenant , not the covenant it self . but let that be yielded that the covenant doth administer , yet the description of the external covenant as made by mr. burges doth not include administration . for god may in an outward visible manner own a people , and they externally profess their owning of him , and yet neither administer one to another any thing promised , or if the owning be administration , the people administer to god as well as god administers to them . besides his description makes an external profession of owning god requisite to the external covenant . if that be right , no infant is in the external covenant till it profess owning god , and in what outward visible manner god doth own infants except by baptizing them ( which god doth not but the minister , nor ever commanded or declared his approbation of i● ) i know not , and then the outward covenant is nothing else but baptizing , and an infants being in covenant is his being baptized or to be baptized , and the argument from the covenant comes to this ridiculous tautology , all infants of believers are in the outward covenant ( for they dare not say they are all in the inward ) that is , they are in the outward administration , which is no other than baptism , and so the antecedent is equipollent to this , they are or are to be baptized ; and the conclusion is , ergo , they are to be baptized . but mr. marshal it seems conceives the outward covenant , as he describes it , meant zach. . . where the prophet saith , and i took my staff even beauty , and cut it asunder , that i might break my covenant which i had made with all the people . and he interprets it thus , that at the death of christ god brake his covenant with the jews , wholly evacuating and abolishing the legal ordinances , and bringing in the administration we live under . but if this be the sense , then this prophesie doth not foretell any thing penal to the jews ; for the abolishing of legal ordinances was a mercy to them , they being a yoke intolerable , acts . . whereas the text speaks of it as an evil that should befall them . piscator in his analysis , eventus fuit desertio judaeorum , v. , , , & . diodati and after him the new annotations in zech. . . my covenant ] the peace which i had granted to my church , that she should not be assaulted no more , nor be molested by any strange nation , which was verified from the maccabees time , untill a little before the coming of christ. grot. annot. in locum . abstuli protectionem illam specialem . irritum facere foedus suum deus dicitur , cum ruptis a populo foederis conditionibus , ipse quoque a sua par●e promissa non implet . mr. ms. conceit is , as if by the covenant were meant legal ordinances , and so the breaking off is meant either de jure onely , and then it is not a prophesie of what should happen ; or else de facto , in the event , but then it is not true ; for the jews retained the legal ordinances of the covenant he made with them , and do still at this day even circumcision , and as many other of the legal rites as they can in their present dispersion . it is true , god brake o● the jews from being his people in covenant , and called the gentiles and graffed them in ramorum defractorum locum , and how this is to be understood i have shewed before at large in the first part of this review . but without a trope to call outward ordinances gods covenant is without example of scripture ( the covenants rom. . . say beza , piscator , new annot. &c. are the tables of the covenant ) and can hardly be acquitted from non-sense . onely perhaps it seems mr. m. for a shift , as v. g. pag. . he saith , god makes good his promise sealed in baptism in which he engageth himself to be the god of believing christians and their seed ; which in his sermon pag. . he makes the promise of saving grace , yet when it is proved that cannot be true of gentile believers and their children he runs to this vain shift , that the outward covenant belongs to them ( which is nothing to the promise gen. . . in which outward administrations are not promised ) though not the inward . nor is it mr. ms. manner alone but the common course of paedobaptists in their writings to play fast and loose with the ambiguity of the term covenant and covenant of grace , as hath been formerly shewed , and may appear more in that which follows . but to keep to mr. m. he tells me , if the covenant of grace be in substance the same , though you should reckon up a thousand accidental and local differences it were nothing to the purpose . to which i reply ; though i grant the covenant of grace be always the same in substance , meaning thereby that the elect are saved in all ages by the same promises of evangelical grace , that is righteousness , regeneration , adoption in christ , and the promise gen. . . hath an evangelical sense , which is this , that god will be a god to abraham and his spiritual seed by election and faith , and am unjustly charged of spoiling all infants of all interest in the covenant of grace , and confining the jews promises to earthly and temporal blessings , of which i have acqui●ted my self in my letter to mr. baily , sect. . . yet i never granted that the covenant with abraham did contain no other than evangelical promises of grace in christ , nor that these very promises gen. , , , , . were all evangelical promises , nor any of them in that sense , which is obvious to the understanding , according to common rules of grammar , but onely according to the apostles exposition , who never so expounded the promise , gen. . . as if it were made to any mans seed but abrahams , not to every believing gentile and his natural seed . and certainly this difference between the covenant gen. . and the covenant of grace will be much to the purpose to shew the covenant , gen. not to be to a believing christian and his seed ; and that though circumcision of male infants should have its reason barely from the interest of the circumcised in that covenant ; yet such a covenant-interest not belonging to our children who are of the gentiles cannot be a reason to entitle them to baptism though it should be granted ( which is not ) that our baptism succeeds their circumcision , and seals the covenant of grace as theirs did that made with abraham . this mixture of the covenant , and the inference thence , that circumcision did not belong to all believers and their children , but as in abrahams family is observed by mr. allen and mr. sheppard in their defence of the answer to the nine positions , chap. . and because their words are apposite to my purpose , though otherwise applied by them , i shall recite them . now that we hold the right proportion in the persons may appear , first , in that ( as was granted ) circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant , but this covenant was not simply , and onely the covenant of grace ; but that whole covenant that was made with abraham , whereby on gods part they were assured of many special blessings ( whereof lot and others not in this covenant with abraham were not capable ) and whereby abraham and his seed , and family were bound for their part to be a people to god , and to observe this sign of the covenant , which others in the covenant of grace were not bound to . secondly , ( as is granted ) it was abraham and his houshold and the seed of believing jews that were to be circumcised , and therefore not visible believers , ( as such ) for then lot had been included ; so by right proportion not all visible believers as such , but such as with abraham and his family are in visible covenant to be the people of god , according to the institution of churches when and to which the seal of baptism is given ; and therefore as all family-churches but abrahams being in a new form of a church were excluded , so much more such a● are in no visible constituted church at all . in which it is expresly yielded , that the covenant with abraham was mixt in my sense , that circumcision did not belong to all visibly in the covenant of grace , that it belonged peculiarly to the church in abrahams family , that baptism follows the christian church constitution ( which sure is much different from the jewish ) and therefore not the covenant made with abraham . but mr. m. seems to be sensible of this , and endeavours to p●event it in that which follows . but , saith he , the first doth almost recall it , wherein you charge me to carry the narration of the covenant made with abraham , gen. . as if it did onely contain the covenant of grace in christ ; whereas it is apparent ( say you ) out of the text , that the covenant was a mixt covenant consisting of temporal benefits , the multiplying of abrahams seed , possession of canaan , the birth of isaac , besides the spiritual blessings . to which i reply , i meant so indeed , and so i plainly expressed my self , that all the difference betwixt the covenant then made with abraham , and the covenant made with us , lies onely in the manner of administration of the covenant ; and not in the covenant it self . the covenant it self in the substance of it holds out the same mercies both spiritual and temporal to them and to us . answer . by mixt covenant i mean a covenant consisting of some temporal blessings proper onely to abrahams natural posterity and some spiritual blessings common with him to all believers whether jews or gentiles . and i say , those promises of temporal blessings were of the substance of the covenant made with abraham , that they cannot in any fit sense be called the manner of the administration of the covenant , that the covenant it self in the substance doth not hold out the same mercies both spiritual and temporal to them , and to us . and all these things i thus prove . . those promises were of the substance of the covenant , which are in scripture called the covenant it self , without mention of the spiritual promises ; but this is true of the promise of the land of canaan , &c. psalm . , , , . nehem. . . gen. . . & . , , , . chron. . , , , , &c. in which places the text expresly saith , god made a covenant with abraham ; and then recites the covenant , that it was to give the land of the canaanites , &c. which were temporal mercies not now promised or performed to us . ergo , to deny those promises to be of the substance of the covenant , and to call them administrations , which the scripture calls the covenant it self so often , if it be not to thwart the scripture , sure it is unwarrantably to alter its expressions : god himself so expresly calling the giving of canaan his covenant , exod. . . . refutes this conceit . . those promises are of the substance of the covenant made with abraham , which are integral parts of the covenant . but those promises of temporal blessings are integral parts of the covenant made with abraham . ergo , the major is in it self manifest , for the covenant is nothing but a promise or an aggregate of promises ; and so if a covenant have any substance in it , it must be the integral parts . the minor is apparant from the very words , gen. . , &c. where god having in general terms told abraham , my covenant is with thee , he expresseth to the . verse , wherein his covenant was with him , and that is set down in those peculiar blessings to abrahams natural posterity , verse . . . the promise of canaan can be called no other way the administration of the covenant of grace than in that in the hidden sense under that promise spiritual good was intended to be shadowed . but this very thing shews that the promise of an earthly inheritance was in the first place thereby intended to abrahams natural posterity , and the other onely as an additament or appendix to the promise in its first meaning . now then if the promise of canaan in the first sense be not of the substance of the covenant , neither is the promise onely implied mysteriously in the more hidden sense , which is but an appendix to it , of the substance of the covenant . . the covenant made with abraham , holds not out the same mercies both spiritual and temporal to abrahams natural posterity and to us . ergo , there is more difference than in the administration . the antecedent is apparant ; for the promise of the land of canaan , the birth of isaac , christ to come of him according to the flesh , &c. are not made to us . ergo , but mr. m. thinks to prevent this by telling us , godliness having all the promises both of this life and that which is to come ; and that they and we have our right to all these promises upon the self same condition . answer . thess things are manifestly false ; for though godliness have the promise of this life and that which is to come , tim. . . yet the promises , levit. . , &c. are not made to every godly man , that he shall ly down and none shall make him afraid , that he shall chase his enemies , &c. but rather assurance is given that he shall be persecuted , tim. . . mark . , . nor have they promises upon the same condition ; for exod. . . it is promised , that none should desire the israelites land while they did appear thrice in the year before the lord , but to us there is not that promise nor upon that condition . but , saith he ▪ earthly things indeed were to them promised more distinctly and fully , heavenly things more generally and sparingly than they are now to us ; and on the contrary , spiritual things are more fully and clearly promised to us than to them ; and earthly promises more generally and sparingly . answ. this is not all the difference ; for i have shewed that to us an earthly rest is not promised at all , but the contrary assured to us , to wit , suffering persecution . mr. m. adds , and that these temporal benefits which you mention , viz. multiplying of abrahams seed , the bitth of isaac , and possession of canaan , were all of them administrations of the covenant of grace , they were figures , signs , and types of spiritual things to be enjoyed both by them and us . these things i not onely asserted , ●ut proved in my sermon . if you mean no more than this , that all these temporal blessings were promised and given as flowing from the promise of christ , and were subservient to it , or were types and shadows of it , you mean no more than what we all grant , who yet deny any more mixture in the covenant made with abraham for the substance of it , than there is in that made with us ; and that the difference lies onely in the manner of administration . answer . i deny not but that the possession of canaan , birth of isaac . multiplying abrahams seed were figures , signs , and types of spiritual things to be enjoyed by elect ▪ jews and gentiles according to the mystical hidden●sense of the words ; nor do i deny that they were subservient to the promise of christ , whether it be to be said they flowed from the promise of christ , or tended to the fore-signifying of christ to come , the grace of the gospel , and the heavenly inheritance and rest is a doubt . surely they flowed from gods special love to israel above any other people , deut. . , , . and i grant that circumcision ratified spiritual blessings chiefly , that is as the chief thing promised ; yet in the sense in which i think gameron meant it , thesi . de triplici foedere primarily , that is according to the first and manifest sense of the words it sealed earthly promises peculiar to abrahams natural posterity , and that ciacumcision of infants was specially for that reason , to wit , the peculiar promises to abrahams natural posterity ; nor do i see cause to mislike grotius his speech annot. in luc. . . infantium autem circumcisio ostendebat foedus esse gentilium . and this mixture of the covenant with abraham , to wit , that it contained not onely promises common to all believers , but also promises so peculiar to abrahams natural posterity , that all of them were not according to the law to be made good to any gentile though a proselyte circumcised , namely , the inheritance of the land of canaan , of which none but the natural progeny of israel were to be inheritours , is so manifest , that the denial of it i can hardly impute to any thing but dulness or meer pertinacy . yet why these promises so peculiar to them should be denied to be of the substance of the covenant made with abraham , i see no reason they being integral parts . christ it is true is the substance of the things promised as they were types ; yet the things promised in respect of their natural being had a substance besides , and in relation to the covenant were as much the substance or substantial parts of it as the spiritual promises ; yea , sith those spiritual promises ( if i may so speak ) did subsist in the expressions of temporal blessings , it follows in my apprehension , that if the promises of the spiritual blessings were of the substance of the covenant , then surely the promises of temporal blessings , which those very promises did express , and under the shadow of which they were made should be much more of the substance of the covenant . nor do i conceive any grosness in it to imagine of god , that he should in a covenant of grace founded in christ intend in the seal of it to ratifie temporal blessings , when he intended to assure spiritual blessings under the covert of words in the first sense importing onely temporal . as for the terming of the administration of the covenant of grace it is neither according to scripture , nor is it very handsom sense , specially according to mr. ms. doctrine , who calls circumcision the old administration of the covenant , and if it were an administration of the promises , which were administrations of the covenant of grace , then circumcision was an administration of an administration . but mr m. speaks to me thus . i desire to know of you what scripture ever made circumcision a seal of canaan ; we have express scripture that it sealed the righteousness of faith whereby he was justified , but i no where reade that it ●ealed the land of canaan . answer . to gratifie him i tell him , that i read circumcision called a token of the covenant , gen. . . which covenant was the covenant mentioned before in that chapter , and in that v. . the promise of the land of canaan is made , and acts . . stephen calls it the covenant of circumcision , which he shews not how it was otherwise fulfilled in that speech but by bringing them out of egypt , and placing them in canaan , in which he fulfilled his promise to abraham , vers . , , . it is true , the apostle calls abrahams circumcision a seal of the righteousness of faith which he had yet being uncircumcised , rom . . but i finde not this said of any ones circumcision but abrahams : surely it cannot be said truly of any ones circumcision but a believers . as for what he saith , that we have now carnal promises , and therefore our covenant may be as well mixt as that with abraham . i answer it is true , we have promise of the life that now is and that which is to come ; and so our covenant is in a sort mixt of spiritual and temporal promises : but these promises are common to all godly persons both jews and gentiles , not proper onely to abrahams natural posterity inheriting , in which sense i called it a mixt covenant , exercit. pag. . sect. . i grant , we have outward privileges and ordinances , as baptism and the lords supper , and that many now are members of the visible church , and partake of them who are not elect nor true believers . but none but elect persons have the promises of the new covenant made to them ; none but an elect person hath the promise , that god will write his laws in his heart , be his god , &c. and therefore none but such in truth are in the covenant of grace , though others may be in shew in it and accounted so by us . mr. josiah church in his book forenamed pag. . interposeth thus , . spiritual and temporal promises may be said to make a mixt covenant , but not a mixt evangelical covenant ; for a mixt gospel covenant is a covenant partly of works , and partly of grace , and the covenant of which circumcision was the initial sacrament was not mixed after that manner ; for the law was not given untill four hun●red and thirty years after i● , and then it was not mixed with it , but onely annexed to it , gal. . . answer . mr. church his confession , that spiritual and temporal promises may be said to make a mixt covenant , is as much as i need to justifie my speech exercit. pag . who did not call the covenant made with abraham mixt in any other sense . but , saith he , ● ▪ the difference was onely in the dispensation , and not in the substance of the covenant : the covenant of which circumcision was the initial sacrament was as p●rely evangelical as this , whereof baptism is the initial sacrament : for the gospel is said to be preached unto them as well as to us , and the temporal promises were evangelical and belonged to believers , as such ; for because of unbelief many obtained them not , heb. . . also there are temporal promises in this dispensation , and the people of god have christ and all other things by the same charter , matth. . . & . . rom. . . ezek. . , . answer . if there were difference in the promises , there was difference in the substance of the covenant made with abraham and ours . it is proved from gal. . . that the covenant made with abraham was evangelical , but not purely evangelical . it is not true , that the temporal promises gen. . , , , , . belonged to believers as such . for though many through unbelief entered not into c●naan , heb. . . yet neither all nor onely believers entered in . the gospel was preached to them as well as to us , heb. . . but not either by so purely evangelical a covenant , nor in so perspicuous a way . we have temporal promises now , but not the same , nor by the same charter . as for what he adds , that the promises sealed in the former dispensation were principally spiritual . i grant it , but deny it any absurdity , to say , that no promise was sealed to many circumcised infants , that their souls were not profited , nor any benefit to them by circumcision , though there was profit by it attainable and attained by many ; more than which to the present purpose is not gathered from rom . , . i return to mr. m. i take his grants pag. . that circumcision was comprehended in his , &c. as belonging to the manner of administration af the covenant together with sacrifice● , and that the covenant of grace was administred by sacrifices and other types before circumcision was instituted ; and so blot out my second exception against his first conclusion ▪ onely it is to be observed that pag. . he doth cross himself . for whereas here he grants it to belong to the manner of administration , not to the substance of the covenant , there he will have it to belong to the substance of the covenant not as a part of it , but as a means of applying it . and this is in effect all one as in his language to say , it belongs not to the substance of the covenant , for of it onely are the parts , but to the administration . for how doth it administer it but as a means of applying it ? but my third exception requires more reviewing . mr. m. in his sermon pag. . had mentioned besides christ and true believers a third sort of abrahams seed not born jews , but made proselytes , who were abrahams seed by profession who sought justification by the works of the law did not submit themselves to the righteousness of god ; and alleged ●al . . for it . against this i excepted . that i thought he could not shew where in scripture such are called abrahams seed . to this he replies , . that he named not proselytes to add any strength to the argument , it had been enough for his purpose to have said , some in the church of the jews were visible members , yet not inwardly godly , and these were called abraham's seed as well as others . answ. i should have yielded to call such , if they were jews by birth or nature , abrahams seed ; but not so of any proselyte , and so mr. m. had not his purpose , of applying the term [ abrahams seed ] to gentiles who were believers onely in profession , much less to gentiles who did not so much as profess faith in christ , but sought righteousness by the works of the law. . he saith , he never expected to have met with a quarrel for calling them , who joyned to the church by that cowmon name whereby the church-members were called , viz. the seed of abraham or the children of israel . answer . there was no quarrel in my words : but if mr. m. did not expect that , his sayings in that sermon would be sifted to the bran ; it was his oversight . they that doubted of the divine warrant of paedobaptism had very great cause to discuss that sermon being preached and printed at that time by such a man , and taken to be the sense of the assembly of divines then ●itting at westminster . he says , the seed of abraham or the children of israel were the common name by which church-members joyned to the church of israel were called : but he proves it not , and till he do prove it , i reject it . . saith he , and could no place of scripture be produced where proselytes are expresly called by this name , the matter were no● tanti . answer . it would follow then that the promise gen. . . of being god to abraham 's seed is not meant of gentile proselytes , who were onely by profession gods people , not in reality ; much less of their natural seed , and this would make most of the infants baptized unbaptizable by paedobaptists own p●inciples ; for sure the do not take the natural infant children of them that are not abrahams seed to be in the covenant , gen. . . and therefore must confess them unbaptized . . saith he , but if it were a thing of any m●men● , it would be no hard matter to produce evidence sufficient to prove that proselytes were called israelites and the seed of abraham , as acts . . & . compared acts . . compared with v. . but i forbear . ans. of what moment it is , hath been said . i think it would be a very hard matter out of those texts to prove any proselytes , much less such as were onely visible church-members of the jews , seeking justification by works , not submitting to gods righteousness , abrahams seed . in the former of the texts is not the term abrahams seed , which was the term in question , nor do the verses compared prove that the proselytes mentioned v. . are called v. . men of israel , any more than men of judea and dwellers at jerusalem , v. . nor doth it appear they were called men of israel , v. . in any other sense than as israelite by generation . the later text mentions the children of the stock of abraham , v. . but so called by natural generation opposite to the gentiles , as v. . shews , not proselytes called abrahams seed , though self-justiciaries and gods people onely , so far as outward profession , yea , children of the stock of abraham are there distinguished from those among them that feared god , that is , proselytes . i told mr. m. that he joyned with arminius , in calling self-justiciary proselytes abraham 's seed : which mr. bayn denied . he saith , he joyned not with arminius , that i mis-allege arminius , joyn with servetus . to which i reply no more than i have done in my apology , pag. . sect. . to acquit himself from what i charge him with , that mr. bayn opposeth him , he brings words six lines before of mr. bayns , that say [ children of the flesh ] in some other scripture doth note out justiciaries , and that these words clear him , and that i was guilty of negligence or falshood . but sure i must continue still this charge against mr. m. and add further an imputation of negligence at least , if not of falshood , who heeded not that the words of mr. bayn which i alleged say as much , that the term [ children of the flesh ] elswhere signified self-justiciaries though not there ; yet the seed of abraham without any adjoyned is never so t●ken . now i did not charge with this that he had no scripture to prove self-justiciaries to be called children of the flesh ; but that he had no scripture to prove self-justiciary proselytes called abrahams seed , which m● bayn saith , is never so taken , and therefore mr. bayns words clear him not but condemn him . mr. m. says , i speak of abraham 's seed by calling , and that the promise [ i will be the god of thy seed ] was made good in the calling the gentiles , all which were not partakers of an inward calling , and therefore yield a seed of abraham onely by profession . but that which i say i mean not of a meer outward calling , nor of all the gentiles who are outwardly called . i excepted also against mr. blake for making some abraham 's seed in the bosom of the church now , who are born after the flesh , and thereby have a church-interest or a birth-right to church-privileges : and that he grosly alleged for this gal. . . and mr. m. in his sermon pag. . saith , we have also some ( meaning in the church ) who are onely a holy seed by external profession , gal. . what mr. blake replied hereto in his answer to my letter is answered in the postscript to my apology , sect. . what he hath said in his vindic. foed . cap. . is answered in the second part of this review sect. . mr. m. wonders at my calling those passages very gross , and tells me , . that it is apparant ishmael and the civil justiciaries , of which he was type , had a visible standing in the jewish church , and were the same of whom paul speaks , rom. . . and that in the same place paul himself saith , even so it is now ( even in the church of galatia it was so ) and paul by his doctrine laboured to make them better ) i see not why mr. blake might not use this as an argument , that some have a visible church-membership , and ought to partake of outward church-privileges , notwithstanding they will not have the inheritance of children unless they repent . answer . if this had been all mr. blake inferred from gal. . . i should have granted the conclusion , though i deny his exposition , and the proposition he raiseth from the text. but it is another thing that mr. blake and mr. m. in his sermon pag. . would have . mr. m. that gal . . there is mention of some who are onely a holy seed by external profession , and here expounds [ even so it is now ] in the church of galatia , there is a different seed of abraham , one which is holy onely by external profession , seeking righteousness by the works of the law , and have thereby a visible church-membership , and ought to partake of outward church-privileges , which is clean besides the meaning of the apostle , who doth not say , even so it is now in the church of galatia , but simply [ even so it is now ] that is , it so happens in the world , they that seek the righteousness by the works of the law persecute them that are born after the spirit , that is , who through the spirit do wait for the hope of the righteousness which is by faith ! which was true in the jews , who persecuted the apostles and other christians out of zeal for the law. now these had no visible standing in the christian church , nor is the term [ born after the flesh ] taken in the better part so as to import a privilege a holy seed by external profession , but in the worser part , for an unholy seed by external profession and practice persecuting the christian faith and hope . mr. blake exponds [ being born aft●r the flesh ] as if it imported a privilege , whereas it imports a cursed estate opposite to [ being born after the spirit ] and would have derived a title to church-interest of some in the bosome of the christian church , particularly believers infants : whereas to be horn after the flesh is applied there to persecuting unbelievers , who were not in the church , but cast out , nor had any church-interest by virtue of being born after the flesh , but had an opposing enmity to it thereby . nor is it said of infants that they were born after the flesh , but of such as persecuted them that were born after the spirit ; nor is there a word intitling them that were born after the flesh in that respect abrahams seed , though ishmael their type , and the jews his antitype were abrahams natural seed . so that m m. is mistaken in conceiving that which offends me in mr. blakes expression is , that he thinks there is a fleshly seed of abraham ; for i grant the jewish self-justiciaries were such . but i conceive a gross absurdity in mr. blake , that he takes [ being born after the flesh ] in the better part , as importing the privilege of church-interest to infants of believers , and calling such as are born after the flesh abrahams seed by way of privilege derived from that birth , importing the seed of such to be visible members in the christian church , of which i still conceive i passed a right censure in my examen for the reasons given , however mr. blake and his seconds take it . sect . xxvi . the mixture of the covenant gen. . as by me asserted is vindicated from mr. blake's exceptions , vind. foed . c. . but i am necessitated to have mo●e work with mr. blake , of whom i may say , ( whatever his worth be , and how excellent soever his treatise be accounted of by those who have commended it in their epistle , and others in other respects ) that not onely in his preface to the reader he doth unchristianly accuse me of scorn , and disrespect , of falsifica●ions such as a man might th●nk i had at once cast off all regard either of conscience or reputation without either cause or shew of proof , but also of a high spirit , of bloudy revenge , of uttering reviling words against the church of christ , having the same spirit with the jesuits , from those things which were innocent of any such spirit , and one grain of charitable candour with a little heed of my carriages and speeches might have freed me from , who do not any where charge him or my antagonists with such kinde of accusations , though i censure their arguings somewhat more freely than they think meet , who are not to be judges in their own cause . and for the book throughout there are so many misconstructions of my words , and so many satyrical quips and taunts instead of any clear disputing , that i can discern little or nothing of any brotherly affection to me , or study of truth in that part of his vind. foed . wherein he opposeth me . in his preface to the reader after those hard speeches of me forementioned , after his venting his conceit , as if that wherein he opposeth me were of least use in regard that point to great satisfaction hath been spoken to at large : of which i wish he had told in what part , and by whom such satisfaction is given , that i might have found it in his , mr. bs. or others writings , who yet finde no cause to recede from this opinion , that they have perverted the truth , and insufficiently handled the argument of infant-baptism ) and having contemptuously mentioned me ; as one generally lookt upon low enough under hatches , saith thus , i must assert the spirituality of the old covenant , and maintain that the gospel was preached as well to them as to us , that they a●e the same spiritual meat and drank the same spiritual drink , and here by him i am opposed . to which i answer , in this charge i may say truly in words of meekness , having answered this very crimination in my addition to my apology in answer to mr. baily , sect. . that i am impudently belied , supposing that by the old covenant he means the covenant made with abraham , gen. . which is termed the promises , the covenant that was confirmed of god in christ before the law four hundred and thirty years after , and distinguished from it gal. , , , , , , . and this mr. blake might have discerned , yea , i conceive did discern , when he from my words exercit. pag. . conceived my meaning to be that abraham had promises of bliss and in reference to eternal salvation , vind. foed . cap. . pag. . but that i may vindicate my self and the truth more fully from mr. blakes injurious dealings i shall take a view of that chapter . first , mr. blake saith falsly of me , that i am loth to yield to so much truth as to confess the old covenant ( meaning that gen. . ) to be a covenant evangelical , when as i grant exercit. pag. . some of the promises were evangelical , and that the covenant hath denomination from the promises . then he calumniates me in his spitefull fashion to make me odious and my writing suspected , as if i went in company with jesuits , whom he calls my old friends , and saith untruly i glean so much from them in this controversie ; and adds tha● i cast infants out of the covenant and church-membership , and so exclude them from baptism : whereas i have often acknowledged they are many of them in the covenant of grace truly so called , and the invisible church of the elect , which protestants assert against papists to be most properly termed the church of christ ; nor do i exclude infants from baptism because they are cast out of the covenant and church-membership , but because they are not disciple● whom christ appointed to be baptized , matth. . . next he excepts against me for saying , the covenant made with abraham is not a pure gospel-covenant , but mixt ; concerning which , . mr. blake saith , this expression of mr. t. is very untoward , and such that will bear no fai● sense without the utter overthrow , even of that difference between the covenants , which he would build on this distinction . the untowardness is in denying purity of gospel the first covenant and affirming a mixture . that which is not pure but mixt , is a compound of pure and impure ; such that hath some ingredients such as they ought , and others such that make all adulterate ; as silver mingled with dross , or wine with water , isai . . answer . mr. blake me thinks should know that there are mixtures which do not adulterate . there 's a natural mixture defined by aristotle , the union of bodies miscible altered , as in mixt bodies compound of the four elements reduced to a just temperament , without adultetating all . there 's an artificial mixture in medicines , of wine and sugar , of divers metalls in bells cast , in which and many more there 's no such impurity as that there are some ingredients , such as they ought , and others such as make all adulterate ; and therefore there 's no untowardness in the expression ; yea , the expression is so usual in morality , as when voluntary is divided into purely voluntary and mixt , in divinity the state of grace is either pure or mixt , &c. that i presumed none would have quarrelled with it , if my meaning be right . let 's see what mr. blake saith of my meaning . he tells us , that the false teachers ( st. paul 's adversaries ) preach such a mixt gospel , a compound of that which was pure and impure ; when they urged with such vehemency a mixture of works . but do i call any where the gospel mixt ? or do i preach any such mixture ? mr. blake himself acquits me , when he saith , this sure is not his meaning . what then doth mr. blake take my meaning to be ? i will set down his own words , that the reader may judg of his dealing with me . what then can be his meaning but that abraham had promises , not onely of bliss , and in reference to eternal salvation ; but he had premises also of earthly concernment , as that of the land of canaan , and his plantation there ? this seems to be his meaning by the words that presently follow : the covenant takes it●s denomination from the promises , but the promises are mixt ; some evangelical , belonging to those to whom the gospel belongeth ; some are domestick or civil promise● , specially respecting the house of abraham , and the policy of israel , to this i readily agree . answer . if mr. blake readily agree to that which in his own conceit seemed to be my meaning , with what conscience or with what face could he so falsly charge me , as opposing him in these things , that spirituality of the old covenant , the preaching of the gospel as well to them as to us , their eating the same spiritual meat , and drinking the same spiritual drink , as he doth in his preface , and here of untowardness in my expression , and such as will bear no fair sense without the overthrow , even of that difference between the covenants which i would build on this distinction . but let 's consider his reason of this last speech . to this , saith he , i readily agree , and then his distinction falls to nothing . answer . i should rather have imagined that the contrary follows , that if mr. blake do readily agree to my explication of the mixture of the covenant , that my distinction comes to something , being confirmed by mr. blakes suffrage , unless he take it for nothing . but let 's follow mr. blake , seeing in gospel-times , in new testament days , this will denominate not a pure but mixt gospel , we are under such a gosp●l . answer . . mr. blake alters the term distinguished . i did not distinguish of a pure gospel and a mixt gospel , as he intimates i did , but of a pure covenant and a mixt covenant , and asserted not the gospel preached to abraham to be mixt , but the covenant made with abraham . . it is false , that we are under such a mixt gospel , as he imagined i asserted ; but mr. blake confirms his assertion thus . i know not how we could pray in faith , give us this day our daily bread ; in case we were without a promise of these things , or how man could live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of god , in case we had no word from god. answer . a believer may pray for daily bread in faith trusting on gods goodness , as he is a creatour , as our saviour argues matth. . . as he is a father in christ , matth . . as he hath made general promises , mark . matth. . , . as he hath made special promises , prov. . . psalm . . confirmed by constant experience , psalm . . by the great assurance of the gift of christ , rom. . . though the special promises domestick or civil specially respecting the house of abraham and the policy of israel , belonging not to him the word , de●t . . . i take to be his word of power or command , such as that psalm . . not his word of promise ; yet if it be meant of his word of promise , there are other promises by which the patriarchs afore abraham , and the believers since have lived without the domestick or civil promises specially respecting the house of abraham , and the policy of israel . but mr. blake adds , the apostle tells us , godliness hath the promise of this life , and that which is to come , tim. . . it would trouble many a perplexed man in case he could not make good , that those words , verily thou shalt be fed , psalm . . did not at all belong to him . there is no believing man in any relation but he hath gospel-promises in concernment to that relation , as appears in that speech of paul 's encouragement of servants , ephes. . . it were ill with all sorts , had not they their domestick relation-promises . answer . all this is true , and yet it is true also that the special promises domestick or civil specially respecting the house of abraham and policy of israel belong not to every believer . mr. bl. saith , i place great confidence in my proof this mixture of the covenant . and sets down my words apolog. . averring my proof so full as that i wonder mr. m. mr. blake , and others , are not ashamed to except against it , that what i deliver is plain according to scripture , that there were some peculiar promises made to abraham , gen. . which are not made to every believer , that the words tim. . . is not to the present purpose , for it doth not follow therefore that godliness hath the promise of the land of canaan , or that christ should be every godly mans seed . and then adds , i think i shall more gratifie the reader in leaving this to his smile , than in giving any refutation of it ; if he could assume that there is no earth but that of canaan , or at least that no other promise of earth but that will serve to make a mixture , then he spake somewhat to the purpose ; otherwise it will be believed , that our promises under the gospel of things of earth as well serve to make up a mixture as abraham 's promise of the land of canaan . answer . whether mr. blakes talk or mine be ridiculous the reader may judg . my speech is to purposes aimed at by me , to wit , the enervating the arguings from abrahams covenant and circumcision for infant-baptism , by shewing that the covenant gen. . was not a pure gospel-covenant , that is , having no promises but what belongs to every believer , and consequently baptism not sealing the same covenant every way which circumcision did , and therefore there is not the same reason from the covenant why infants should be baptized though they were circumcised . and this purpose i doubt not to attain though i grant there is other earth than that of canaan , and that there may be other promises of earth besides ▪ that which will serve to make a mixture , and yet the promises of things of earth as now extant under the gospel do not as well serve to make up the mixture i assert in abrahams covenant , promising the land of canaan to be in the covenant of pure evangelical grace as now it stands , sith those promises of earth and this life are made to every believer or godly man now , whereas the promises of canaan and other things specially respecting the house of abraham and policy of israel gen. . and elsewhere were not made to l●t and other godly believers it is likely then living , nor to gentile-believers now under the gospel . mr. bl. goes on thus . . as his expression is untoward , so taking him at the best his proof is weak , that the covenant takes its denomination from the promises ; but the promises are mixt . the most eminent promises ( which contain the m●rrow of all ) give the denomination , and not such that are annext as appendants to them . answ. though the most eminent promises may give the denomination of the covenant to be an evangelical covenant , yet to denominate it a pure evangelical covenant it is necessary that not onely the most eminent , but also that all the promises be evangelical : as though a man may be termed a saint from the habitual purpose and bent of his heart , and the constant course of his actions , yet he is not denominated purely a saint but from the entire and universal purpose , bent , inclination of his heart , and entireness of holiness in his actions without the least inconformity to it . mr. bl. proceeds thus , such as is the promise of the land of canaan , an appendant to the great covenant made of god with abraham , as chamier with good warrant from the text gen . , . calls it lib. de baptis . cap. sect. the covenant being made of god to be a god of abraham and his seed ( which might have been made good wheresoever they had inhabited or sojourned ) the promise of canaan is over and above added to it . the reason given by m. t. for his dislike of chamier 's expression , calling it an appendix to the covenant , is little to purpose , psalm . , . the gift of the land of canaan is called a covenant , and therefore not an appendant to it . by the same reason circumcision must be the covenant , and not a seal appendant to it ; seeing circumcision is called a covenant , gen. ▪ . mr. t. is not ignorant of th●se scripture metonymies ▪ answ. i finde chamier lib. de baptis . cap. . sect. . saying , that the promise of canaan is not the covenant , but an appendix to the covenant . but i finde not that he produceth any warrant from the text gen. . , . to call it so , nor that he doth any other way go about to prove it , but that the words gen. . . i will be thy god and of thy seed . which he calls the covenant , is ill explained of earthly happiness , either as the chief or onely happiness , there meant which he proves from matth ▪ . . nor is there any force in this reason , the promise of canaan is added , v. . over and above the promise v. . therefore it was an appendix and not the covenant . for if this reason be good , it might be said , the promise v. . is not the covenant , but an appendix to it , cause it is added over and above the promise , v. . add as for me , behold my covenant is with thee , and thou shalt be a father of many nations , which is termed gods covenant with him , gen. . . yea , me thinks the argument is good to the contrary , the promise gen. . . was added over and above the promise v. . and closed with this epiphoneme , and i will be their god ; therefore it was a part of the covenant , yea a main part of it . nor because the promise v. . might have been made good wheresoever they had inhabited or sojourned . doth it follow that the promise v. . was not a part of the covenant , for by the same reason neither the promise v. . that abraham should be a father of many nations , had been a part of the covenant , sith the promise v. . might have been made good though he had been father of one nation onely . mr. blake doth not rightly form my reason from psalm . , , , . thus , the gift of the land of canaan is called a covenant , and therefore not an appendant to it , but thus it is in my examen part . sect. . the psalmist calls the promise of canaan the covenant made with abraham , psalm . , , , . therefore it is a part of the covenant , and not onely an appendix . nor doth it follow that then circumcision must be the covenant , for it is confessedly called the covenant gen. . . by a metonimy , and v. . shews it where it is said , and it shall be the token of the covenant between me and you . but it cannor be expounded by a metonimy psalm . , , , . for , . the gift of the land of canaan was not a sign of the covenant , nor can with any good sense be called the covenant according to any other sort of metonimy besides that of the thing signified for the sign . . if it could , yet the phrases used shew it cannot be understood metonimically ; for it is called as well , the word which he commanded to a thousand generations , the covenant which he made with abraham , the oath unto isaac , which he confirmed to jacob for a law , and to israel for an everlasting covenant ; and when it is recited the psalmist prefixeth v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which our translation reade , saying , junius , piscator , dicendo , which doth directly tell us wherein it was that the covenant he made did formally consist , which he is said to remember v. . which thing is so clearly expressed nehem. . . gen. . . & . , , , , &c. that i should wonder mr. bl. should persist in this wrangling course to question a thing so plain , but that i see him tenacious of absurdities he vents though never so gross , as from his exposition and inference from gal. . , and other passages hath been made appear . mr. bl. adds , . as his proof is weak , to make the covenant not a pure gospel-covenant , but mixt ; so in the third place , he is not constant to himself , pointing that out which he makes pure gospel , ( gen. . . gen. . . gen. . illustrated by some new testament scriptures rom. . , . gal. ▪ , , . acts . . ) he observes yea it is to be noted , that those promises which were evangelical according to the more inward sense of the holy ghost , do point at the privileges of abrahams house in the outward face of the words , and thereupon raises a doubt , whether any covenant made with abraham be simply evangelical ? and so he can finde out evangelical promises in the inwards of that covenant , which is non-evangelical in the outward face ; so bellarmine , with whom he so much ( to speak in his own language ) symbolizeth , can finde out spiritual evangelical promises in that which he concluded to be of another nature ; denying that the promise made to abraham in the letter , was any promise of forgiveness of sins , but of special protection and government , and earthly happiness ; yet confesseth that in a mystical sense they were spiritual promises , both of pardon of sin and life eternal , and that they belong to us , bellar. de sacram. bapt. lib. . cap. . whereof chamier observes , that which is promised mystically god in covenant doth promise ; but heaven is here promised mystically ; therefore in this covenant here is a promise of heaven ; so the inward and outward face will be all evangelical . answ. mr. bl. mis-recites my words ; . in saying , that i point out in the texts gen. . . & . . & . . & . . that which i make pure gospel ; for my words are , that was evangelical which we reade gen. . , &c. not that it was pure gospel . . that i raise a doubt whether [ any ] covenant made with abraham be simply evangelical ? whereas my words are , whence it may be well doubted , whether [ this ] covenant made with abraham may be called simply evangelical , not whether [ any ] which is the same with that speech forecited sect . of mr. all●n , this covenant was not simply and one●y the covenant of grace . but what inconstancy to my self giving and taking , not knowing what to determine , is in those speeches , or in that other which he most excepts against : yea , it is to be noted , &c. i am yet to learn. do i ei●her by saying that the promises were evangelical say that they were purely ev●ngelical not mixt ) or by doubting whether they may be called simply evanglical revoke what i said , that they were evangelical ? i think mr. blak● will as soon extract water out of a flint as such inferences from my words . young legicians do know that to argue a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter is ●allacious . as for my speech which he saith symbolizeth with bellarmine , if it be true , it is not the worse for that : nor did i blame mr. m. for symbolizing with arminius in a truth , but for agreeing with him in that explication which doth undermine the true explication of rom. . . which the contraremonstrants prove from the text. if bellarmine did by mystical sense mean the same which i did by the more inward sense of the holy ghost , and by the letter what i express by the outward face of the words , i see not that either chamier or mr. bl. have or can prove it false . the sense in the outward face of the words i call that which a linguist who knows what words signifie would conceive upon reading without any other revelation from the holy ghost . but i cannot believe that any linguist without other revelation than what the bare words hold forth would ever have understood these promises , a father of many nations have i made thee , i will be a god to thee and thy seed . thus gentiles as well as jews shall believe in christ , i will justifie , raise thee up , and all that are my elect , or who believe as thou dost to eternal life . i grant chamiers conclusion , in this covenant here is a promise of heaven , and yet deny that the outward face of the covenant gen. . is all evangelical , nor is there a word in mr. blakes that proves it . mr. blake proceeds thus , lastly , mr. t. yet knows not how to bring any thing home ( were all granted ) to serve his interest . and then sets down what he conceives to be my meaning , which he thus opposeth . first , that orthodox divines both ancient and modern have made circumcision to be of the same signification and use as baptism , and till anabaptists closed they had no adversaries , but papists , who to advance their opus operatum in the sacraments of the new testament will have them as far to exceed the old , as heaven doth earth , and the substance doth the shadow ; and then cites a speech of chamier panst. ca●h . tom . . lib. . cap. . sect . . and prosecutes his calumnies of my borrowing my weapons i use against infant-baptism from the jesuits , to all which i answer . . that i grant that circumcision and baptism are in part of the same signification and use , nor did i ever deny it ; but in as many and more things they differ , which i have shewed exercit. sect. . examen part . . sect. . in this part of the review , sect. . and those disparities i prove out of scripture and the best learned and approved protestant writers . nor do i agree with the jesuits in holding baptism to confer grace ex op●re operato , nor do i undervalue the covenant with abraham and his seed as no gospel-covenant , nor do i deny circumcision to have been the seal of a gospel-promise . as mr. blake doth calumniate me , and to make odious doth fa●sly and injuriously suggest i took from the jesuits . but this i confess i hold exercit. sect. . that there is not the same reason of circumcision and baptism , in signing the evangelical covenant ; nor may there be an argument drawn from the administration of the one to the like manner of administring the other , of both which speeches i have given an account in that place which i finde not yet invalidated ; and if they hold , the analogy between infant-circumcision and infant-baptism is evacuated , there being difference between the covenant made with abraham and the new covenant though both be in some sort evangelical ; and therefore the mixture of the covenant will serve my interest in this point . . it is false which mr. blake saith , that my conformity with the jesuits about the difference between circumcision and baptism to maintain the opus operatum of the one to the disparagement of the other , as if baptism exceeded circumcision as far as the substance the shadow , did put me upon it to affirm , that what all protestant divines defend against the papists must be truth undeniable is no undeniable axiome : for neither do i conform to jesuits in● that point , nor was such conformity any reason of that speech , but the words of mr. m. in his sermon , as the reading of the words of my examen pag. . shew . and i say still that speech is a truth , and necessary to be avouched by all those who ascribe onely authentick authority to the holy scripture . nor is it reasonable to require that i should shew any such errour as is maintained by all protestant divines against papists . for , . it is not possible for me to shew what all protestant divines hold against papists . . nor is it necessary to verifie my speech which avoucheth not any such errour in act , but onely the possibility of it , which is sufficiently made good by p●oving them not infallible . and to the demand how popery should be known if that be no : popery which all protestant divines defend against the papists . i answer . . it may be counted popery and yet perhaps a truth which all protestant divines oppose . . what is popery which we have engaged our selves to extirpate is better known in the ways i set down ap. p. , . sect. . than in mr. blakes way . for , . it is not possible for any man no not the greatest reader in controversies to know what all protestant divines defend against papists . . if that be the rule to know popery by , many things will not be taken for popery which are , there being many tenents which are counted popery which protestants divines and those of good note have not opposed , but have granted many things favourably to them , as not onely the collections of brerely and such like papists , but also the treatises of the cassandrian writers , and late episcopal protestant do shew , which yet i do not approve of . i agree with mr. blake that there is less likelihood that the truth should be with the papists than with the protestants , and yet there may be some truth which some papists may discern which many protestants do not . it is the saying of doctor twisse vind. grat. lib. . part . . sect . . digress . . num . . but i would not that those things should be rejected of us , because the schoolmen hold them ; for neither do the cretians fain all things . augustines judgment was esteemed better than the pelagians as being the oracle of his time , yet he is censured as the hard father of infants for maintaining their damnation if they died unbaptized . calvin was in high esteem as the great light of the protestant churches , who have many of them followed him in the point about usury , yet the popish and prelatical divines are generally counted by our most zealous preachers more right in that point than the transmarine calvinists . it is a wicked calumny which mr. blake vents whe he saith of me , that i 〈◊〉 in upon the party of these sons of anak , meaning the jesuits . had he any other than a malignant spirit towards me , he would have judged that not to side with jesuits , but to keep my oath which i took in the solemn covenant i did oppose infant-baptism , in maintaining of which he and the rest of the paedobaptists have broken the covenant , whereby they bound themselves to reform the worship of god after the word of god. and for what he chargeth me with , that i borrow my weapons from the jesuits , though my denial is enough to acquit me from it , there being none but knows my actions better than my self , and with men not malevolent to me i think my words at least deserve as much credit concerning my own actions as mr. blakes , yet as i said so i repeat it , it appears to be a loud calum●y in that all along in my examen , and now in my other writings almost in every point i produce protestants of good note concurring with me , not onely in the point about the extent of the covenant examen sect . . part . . and the holiness of children , cor. . . exam. part . . sect . . exerc. sect . . review part . . sect . . but also about the institution , mat. . . review part . . sect . . even in this point of the mixture of the covenant in the section next before this . yea , the principle upon which i found all my dispute is that which mr. cotton in his preface to his dialogue for infant-baptism confesseth to be a main principle of purity and reformation . and though protestant writers do many of them oppose my conclusion , yet they do agree with me in the premisses on which i build it , to wit , that baptism is to be after the institution , and that neither the institution nor practice in the new testament was of paedobaptism , and all paedobaptists whether presbyterians or independents who do hold that inf●nts belong to the visible church as the posterity of abraham to the jewish church ●o injuriously keep them whose baptism they avouch to be good , and to be vi●●ble church-members , from the lords supper for want of knowl●dg ; as for what he tells me , he can trace me out of some jesuit in what i de●●●er ●bout the covenant and seal , though i do not yet believe it , yet there is no reason therefore to reject it , as doctor 〈◊〉 saith truly . bishop morton in his apology hath produced popish writers and many of them jesuits who deliver the same things which the protestants do ; yet this is so f●r from discrediting their cause that it is justly counted a good plea for them , and why should not the like plea be good on my behalf , sith jesuits are adversaries to me , as well as others ? but enough if not too much in answer to these calumnies sufficiently answered before , postscript sect. . mr. blake proceeds thus , secondly , if circumcision have respect to those promises that were no gospel-mercies , but civil , domestical , restrained to jews , and not appertaining to christians ; how could it be a distinction between jew and gentile respective to religion , it might have made a civil distinction , and the want of it have been an evidence against other nations , that they had been none of the multiplied seed of abraham according to the flesh , and that their interest had not been in canaan . but how could it have concluded them to have been without christ , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope and without god in the world , as the apostle determines upon their uncircumcision ▪ ephes. . , . cannot be imagined . ans. . circumcision did not make such a distinction between jew and gentile respective to religion , as that every circumcised person was of the jewish religion : for if the posterity of ishmael and esau were not circumcised as mahometans at this day ( which some historians say of them at least for a time that they were ) yet ahab and other worshiperps of baal were of the posterity of jacob , and the samaritans , as mr. mede in his discourse on john . . were circumcised , yet were not of the jewsh religion , or at least there was a distinction in religion between them john . . no● every one that worshipped the same god with the jews was circumcised . cornelius and many other proselytes of the gate owned the god and spiritual worship , and moral law of the jews , though they were not circumcised , as mr. mede proves in his discourse on acts . . nor doth the apostle ephes. . , . determine upon their uncircumcision , that is , conclude them without hope , without god , barely from their uncircumcision , as if he held all uncircumcised were without hope , without god : but he onely sets those things down as concurrent , not one the certain cause or sign of the other . . circumcision did distinguish between jew and gentile respective to religion , not because it sealed gospel-mercies , nor because it sealed promises of civil or domestick benefits ▪ but because it bound to the observance of the law of moses , in respect of the observation of which the distinction in religion was known by circumcision not by its sealing the covenant-promises , either evangelical , or civil and domestick . . if the distinction between jew and gentile respective to religion were made by circumcision as sealing the covenant , gen. . it might have made a religious distinction by my tenet , who hold it signed the spiritual promises , though not them onely , as wel : as by mr. blakes . the next thing which mr. blake urgeth against me from jerem. . . rom. . . deut. . . deut. . . ezek. . . is that circumcision had relation to promises spiritual , which is not denied , nor any thing against the mixture i hold in the covenant , nor to evacuate any inference i make from it . in like manner the fourth tends to prove that circumcision did not respect alone the civil interest of the jews , which i grant . but the fifth thing urged by mr. blake needs some examination . fifthly , saith he , how is it that the apostle giving a definition of circumcision refers it to nothing rational , civil or domestick , but onely to that which is purely spiritual , speaking of abraham , he saith , he received the sign of circumcision , a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had , yet being uncircumcised ? the righteousness of faith is a promise purely evangelical , rom. . . & . . & . . phil. . . and this circumcision sealed , the self-same thing that our sacraments seal . answer . the apostle doth not give a definition of circumcision , rom. . , . for , . that which is to be defined is , say logicians , a common term , but circumcision rom. . . is not a common term , but a singular , or individual , to wit , that which abraham had in his own person , it is that which he received , and the time is noted to be after he had righteousness by faith , which he had yet being uncircumcised , for a singular privilege to be the father of believers . ergo . there is no genus , nor difference of circumcision from other things , therefore no definition . no genus , for the term [ seal ] cannot be the genus , it being a meer metaphor , and so not declaring what it is , but what it is like , in respect of the use . besides , circumcision is an action , but seal is in the predicament of relation , as being a sign , or a figure in the predicament of quality , or an aggregate compound of a material substance , having a figure for signification . but the genus is in the same predicament with the species , and so is not [ seal ] with [ circumcision ] ergo. for doth seal of the righteousness of faith agree to all circumcision , nor difference it from the spirit of god ; nor according to the paedobaptists hypothesis , from the pass-over , baptism , or the lords supper . mr. blake adds , so that their extraordinary sacraments are expresly affirmed to be the same with ours by the apostle , cor. . . they eat all the same spiritual meat , and did all drink the same spiritual drink , so are their appointed established sacraments , circumcision and the pass-over . answer . . the extraordinary sacraments are said to note the same thing with ours , not expresly affirmed to be the same with ours . ▪ it is no where said in scripture that circumcision and the pass-over did note the same thing with our sacraments , much less that they are the same sacraments with ours . mr. blake adds , will mr. t. with his old friend bellarmine lib. . cap. . de saramentis in genere , and mr. blackwood in his reply to the tenth objection , deny that circumcision was an universal seal of faith , but was onely an individual seal of the undividual faith of abraham , and so all falls to the ground which is spoken from that text of the use of circumcision to the jews . all that is there spoken , having reference onely to abraham in person . answer . mr. blake tells me of an old friend of mine whom i never knew , and have hitherto made him mine adversary , although perhaps we may agree in some things , and i think mr. blake and he agree in more than i do with him . it seems not to me to be bellar. opinion , or mr. blackwoods that circumcision was onely an individual seal of the faith of abraham , but bellarmines opinion is , that his circumcision did testifie not his individual faith , but his individual privilege to be father of the faithfull , which mr. blake agrees with him in , when he saith , this priority of receiving the faith and the sign and seal , is proper to abraham· and then he is as much his old friend as mine . mr. blackwood in his reply to the second part of the vind. of the birth-privilege , pag. . saith thus , so that circumcision was a seal of the righteousness which abraham had , not in persona propria , but in persona relativa , it sealed unto him not his own personal righteousness , which he had long before , but the righteousness of all believers . in which i dissent from him , conceiving it sealed both : however his opinion seems to be otherwise than mr. blake represents it . for my self i do not make it any seal of faith either universal or individual , nor know i well what sense to make of either , but this is my opinion , that abrahams individual circumcision , and no others is made rom. . , . the seal of the righteousness of faith to abraham as the father of believers , and to all believers of all nations as his seed . now to this opinion of mine i finde nothing opposite , but against another point that abrahams circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of faith and of the covenant to him onely , which i disclaim , and therefore let his arguments pass without gain-saying , onely i request the reader to take notice that mr. blake hath many ways mis-represented my opinion in this ch. but hath not at all overthrown the mixture in the covenant gen. . which i assert ; but where he sets down my opinion rightly saith pag. . to this i readily agree , nor hath at all so much as brought one reason to shew that my distinction shews not my turn for which i bring it , which he undertook to do , but leaves that thing and runs out in calumnies of me , and proving that which i deny not . sect . xxvii . the four first chapters of mr. sidenham's exercitation are examined , and his vanity in his conceits about consequences proving infant-baptism , the purity of the covenant gen. . infants of believers being abraham's seed and in covenant , is shewed . i think it necessary for many reasons afore i review the dispute about mr. ms. second conclusion to consider what mr. cuthbert sidenham hath said in the four first chapters of his exercitation . . he forestalls his reader with things palpably false , that there is nothing in all the new testament against the baptizing of infants , not one hint from any express word dropt from christ or his apostles ; not one phrase , which though never so much strained doth forbid such an act . the contrary whereof is abundantly proved in the second part of this review , sect. . &c. nor can any paedobaptist finde so much against infant-communion , bell-baptism , baptizing of dead persons , baptism of midwives , the cross in baptism , and many other prelatical and popish usages as there is in the new testament against infant-baptism . . that all his opposites have onely this to say , that they can finde no syllabical precept or word of command in terms , saying , go baptize infants , or any positive example where it is said in so many words infants were baptized , all that they say besides is to quarrel with and evade their arguments , and that this argument is built on this false principle , that no direct consequences from scripture are mandatory : the contrary whereof is so manifest out of my examen part . . sect . . apol. sect . . ( which mr. sidenham often quotes , and therefore cannot be ignorant of unless wilfully ) and throughout all my writings , that a man can hardly conceive but that he shamelesly vented these things against his own knowledg . and therefore i need not answer his reasons to prove the use of consequence . let any paedobaptist give me one good consequence whereby infant-baptism is proved , and i shall yield ▪ the consequences of mr. baxter and others i finde to be meer fallacies , and have , and doubt not with divine assistance to shew them to be so . that which he saith , pag. . that where we have a promise laid as the foundation of a duty that is equivalent to any express command ; for as commands in the gospel do suppose promises , to encourage us to act ●●em , and help us in them ; so promises made to persons do include commands , especially when the duties commanded are annexed to the promises , as all new testament ordinances are as well as old ; is ambiguous , and in what sense , it is true it serves not mr. sidenhams turn to prove infant-baptism . by foundation of a duty may be understood either a motive to encourage to a duty named , as when it is said , him that honoureth me i will honour , this promise doth suppose it a duty to honour god , and is a motive to encourage to it , and so is a foundation in that sense of the duty : o● by foundation of a duty may be understood the rule according to which that duty is to be performed , and this may be understood either thus , to whomsoever there is a promise of that thing by which a duty is urged on others they are bound to do that duty , and then it is false : for christ promised matth. . , . to the apostles whom he bid preach the gospel and baptize , that he would be with them , and matth. . . to two or three gathered together to be in the midst of them , doth it therefore follow that every two or three gathered together in his name are commanded to preach and baptize ? or it may be understood thus , that he to whom the promise is upon the doing of that duty is bound to do it ; and this i grant to be true : but this will not serve mr. sidenhams turn : for there is no promise to infants that upon their baptizing themselves they should have remission of sins , nor is mr. sidenham so absurd as to make baptism infants duty , but their right : now as mr. sidenham would have it , that because there 's a promise to infants , therefore others are in duty bound to baptize them , as having right to it , it is false , sith the institution of baptism is not to whom god hath promised to be a god , for that is according to his election which is unknown , rom. . , , . but to them who are disciples or believers in christ , matth. . . mark . , . there are ambiguities in the speeches that commands in the gospel do suppose promises , that promises made to persons do include commands , that all the new testament ordinances are annexed to promises , which would be too tedious and unnecessary to unfold , it is sufficient to shew they will not serve mr. sidenhams turn in the sense they are true , and will as well serve to prove infants right to the lords supper , as to baptism . that which he saith , we have as much in the new testament to prove infant-baptism , from the true principles of right to ordinances , as they have for those whom they baptize ; for they baptize grown persons on such and such considerations ; and we shall hereafter shew we baptize on as strong and equivalent grounds , is notoriously false : for we baptize according to the qualification required in the institution of christ , and the apostles and other preachers baptizing and directing the use of baptism in the new testament which are acknowledged the true principles of right to ordinances , and it is acknowledged even by paedobaptists that they have neither precept nor example in the new testament of infant-baptism , and therefore cannot have as strong and warrantable grounds as we who are pistobaptists , that is , baptizers of believers . nor is it true that it is requisite we should shew them express●command against infant-baptism , it is enough that they cannot prove in its institution . infants never by divine warrant enjoyed baptism , and for circumcision it was more unlike than like to baptism , and of it an authentique repeal is easily shewed acts . and elsewhere . in the rest mr. sidenham shews not why infants should not have been baptized at first , as well as grown men if it had been christs minde ; ishmael and all abrahams males were circumcised the self same day in which abraham was , gen. . , . and therefore if paedobaptists hypothesis were right , infants as well as persons of years should have been baptized by the apostles ▪ which they did not , for in that it is not exprest , it is enough to shew it was not done , unless we make the spirit of god defective in what was needfull to have been set down , and to say as mr. sidenham doth , there is enough to shew it was done though not written , is with the papists to maintain unwritten traditions ▪ rule ●f manners . there is no hint left by christ or the apostles to deduce as a infant-baptism from . and it is false which he saith , god hath always ordained some ordinances in the administration● of which , for the most part , the subject hath been purely passive . he names nor can name any till the institution of circumcision , which was not till after the world had been above two thousand years . the rest of his speech savours of this corrupt principle , that what we conceive fit in gods worship is to be accounted his minde . this is enough in answer to the first chapter . in the second he saith untruly , that the covenant gen. . was first made with abraham and his seed in the name of all believers and their seed , both jews and gentiles ; nor is it true that if he should finde the same covenant reaching gentile believers and their children as abraham and his they cannot be denied the new external sign and seal of the same covenant , that is , baptism . and for what he saith , the covenant gen. . was a covenant of pure grace , i grant it so far as it was evangelical , but deny it to be a pure gospel-covenant , nor do any of his reasons prove any more than i grant , that there were gospel-promises meant by god under promises of temporal mercies proper to abraham and his natural posterity , and those that joyned with them in their policy ; which i have proved before , out of scripture to be termed the covenant it self without a metonymy , and god is said to keep that covenant by establishing the israelites in canaan , and therefore it is but vain talk that the promise of canaan was but an additional , appendix , added ex super abundanti , if he mean it of the covenant gen. . if he mean it of the gospel-covenant it is more true that was added to the other as a more hidden sense under the promises of civil and domestick privileges . i do not make a mixture in the gospel-covenant , but in the covenant made with abraham , gen. . nor by mixture do i understand any other than a composition of various parts , not a mixture in the nature of it , or substance or circumstances : but that the covenant made with abraham had promises of two sorts , some promises in the first obvious sense of the words proper to abrahams natural posterity , some spiritual common to all believers in the more hidden sense of the words , which with what hath been said before is enough to answer that chapter a●so , proceeding upon mistakes of my meaning in the term [ mixt ] in many passages , and the rest if not answered before , i let pass , because dictates without proof . in the third , after he hath allowed the distinctions of abrahams seed into carnal and spiritual , natural and believing , he sets down six considerations . . that abraham 's spiritual seed were as much his fleshly seed also , isaac as ishmael except proselytes and servants : which may be granted with these limitations . . that it be not understood universally , for christian believing gentiles● neither proselytes to israel , nor servants to them , are abrahams spiritual seed , yet not at all abrahams fleshly seed . . that isaac was as much abrahams fleshly seed as ishmael according to the meaning rom. . . as fleshly seed is called from natural generation simply considered : but not as gal. . . it is meant of fleshly seed called so from natural generation in some respect , to wit , as begotten in a baser way . the second consideration of mr. sidenham is this , [ the covenant was administred to all abrahams natural and fleshly children , as if they had been spiritual , and before they knew what faith was , or could actually profess abrahams faith . ] if he mean by the covenant onely circumcision i grant it of all abrahams natural male children : if he mean the covenant of grace which is evangelical , though i deny not that it was administred by the mediation of christ , and the work of the spirit , to many elect infants afore believing , yet i deny that it ever was or shall be administred to any but the elect of god , who have the denomination of abrahams spiritual seed . for i know not how the covenant which promiseth remission of sins , justification , regeneration , adoption ▪ eternal life is said to be administred but by giving these , which are given onely to the elect , not to abrahams meer natural or fleshly seed . meer outward ordidances and outward gifts and privileges as they are not promised in the gospel-covenant , which we call the covenant of grace , either as made to abraham , or confirmed by christs bloud , so neither are they administrations of it , but arise from gods command or providence without the covenant as evangelical . his third consideration is , it 's no contradiction in different respects to be a seed of the flesh by natural generation , and a childe under the same promise made with the parent ; for they both agreed in abraham 's case : which i grant , if meant of isaac and jacob , and such other heirs of the promise , as the scriptures term them . but i reject that which follows , that none was a childe of promise , but as he came of abraham 's flesh : for believing gentiles are children of the promise though they come not of abrahams flesh , yea it is not onely true to the contrary , but expresly avowed rom. . . that none are children of the promise as they come of abraham 's flesh . nor is it true , that as he came from abraham 's flesh , so every one had the seal of gods covenant on his flesh ▪ for this is not true of males under eight days old , or females , and therefore this inference is vain : thus a spiritual promise was made with abraham and his carnal seed . his fourth consideration is , there was no distinction of abraham 's fleshly seed and his spiritual seed in the old testament , but all comprehended under the same covenant , untill they degenerated from abraham 's faith , and proved themselves to be meer carnal , and rejected the promise . but this is manifestly false , esau was abrahams fleshly seed , but never his spiritual seed . the apostle determines rom . . afore he had done good or evil he was rejected , and with the apostle a childe of the promise , and an elect person are the same . no man is abrahams spiritual seed but an elect person , or true believer : scripture makes none else his seed spiritual rom. . , . & . , . gal. . . john . . this very authour makes the distinctions of fleshly and spiritual , believing and natural taken out of rom. . , gal. . . & . . most true . and if a person may be abrahams spiritual seed a while , then the degenerate the elect , and true believers may fall away finally and totally , and if they that be abrahams fleshly seed be under the same covenant with the spiritual till they degenerate , then a person may be in the covenant of grace , and be meerly carnal , having not the spirit of god , then a man may be in the covenant of grace and not abide in it , then the covenant of grace may be defective , mutable , and if there be no distinction of abrahams fleshly seed and his spiritual in the old testament , untill they rejected the promise , then there is no distinction of elect and reprobate till in time they embrace or reject the promise contrary to rom. . . he that holds this position must become an arminian . his fifth is , there is a carnal and spiritual seed of abraham , even under the new testament , as our opposites must acknowledg , as well as infants ; so are the most visible professours which they baptize ; which may have no grace ; and many prove carnal indeed , through the predominancy of their lusts and corruptions . answer . it is ackdowledged that there is a carnal seed of abraham under the new testament in the jewish nation : but visible professours of the gentiles which are baptized although they be many of them carnal men ( and so are many of the congregational churches not baptized ) yet they cannot be termed the carnal seed of abraham , being not his seed either by nature or by believing as he did . his sixth is , when there is mention of abraham 's carnal seed in opp●sition to spiritual seed , it cannot be meant primarily or solely of those that descended from abraham 's flesh ; for then isaac and jacob were the carnal seed , yea christ himself , who as concerning the flesh came of abraham ; it must be therefore of those of abraham 's seed which degenerated and slighted the covenant of the gospel , and these were properly the carnal seed . answer . the distinction of abrahams carnal and spiritual seed is as the distinction of the church into visible and invisible , in which the members may agree to the same persons , though on the other side also they may not agree . the same persons may be of the church visible and invisible , and yet some persons may be of the church visible who are not of the invisible , and some of the invisible who are not of the invisible : so some are abrahams carnal seed who are also his spiritual , as isaac , jacob , christ ; some ●re his spiritual seed but not his carnal , as gentile believers ; some his carnal seed but not his spiritual , as unbelieving jews ; some neither his carnal nor spiritual seed , as unsound professours of faith of the gentiles , who are no way abrahams seed , nor ever called his carnal seed in scripture . there are but two places i know in which the term of abrahams fleshly seed or childe is used rom. . . gal. . . in both which is meant of his seed by natural generation , though in the later in a worse way . in the former way , those that embraced the covenant without degenerating from abrahams faith , being descended from abraham by natural generation , are as properly termed abrahams carnal seed as those israelites that did backslide . i grant , abraham was a natural father to many of th●se to whom he was a spiritual father , as to isaac and jacob and the godly of their posterity , but not to all . he was a spiritual father to believing galatians , though not a natural , gal. . . but what mr. sidenham saith , that all to whom abraham was a natural father were under the covenant , and had the seal untill they rejected themselves , is in no part true : not the former , for ishmael was never under the covenant , whether it be meant of the spiritual promises or temporal , unless mr. sidenham means by b●i●ng under the covenant being circumcised , which is all one with having the seal , and then he useth an inept tautology in his speech without good sense . nor is the later true of females and males under eight days old . i grant that both abr●hams natural and spiritual children were circumcised , which mr. sidenham means when in the paedobaptists gibberish he saith , the promise took in both relations , as to outward administration : but rom. . , , , . speak●●●●●ing of the spiritual childe of abraham but the natural . and for what mr. sidenham saith , and if men truly state things , you may argue as much against abraham 's natural seed from enjoying these privileges , as believers natural seed now , and with as much evidence of truth . i know not what he means by truly stating things , the privileges mentioned rom. . , , , . are circumcision , and the commission of the oracles of god to them , and this later is reckoned as the jews advantage ; and though it be true , that we have the benefit of the oracles of god , yet it is not true of our children in infancy , nor of any of us or our children , that to them were the oracles of god committed as to the jews . and for circumcision it is true , we may argue as much against abrahams natural seed from enjoying it as believers natural seed now , and with as much evidence of truth , since christ is come , circumcision the shadow is to cease , both to jews and gentiles : and me thinks mr. sidenhams arguing should be the same with ours if he were a christian ( as i doubt not he was ) and not a jew . but that which mr. sidenham would have is , that a believers natural childe should be abrahams seed , and this is the true stating of things , which perhaps he means . but afore i state things after mr. sidenhams minde , i must see some proof , as yet i see no one proof to make good any of his ( inconsiderate ) considerations . he takes upon him to weigh the scriptures brought by his opposites to prove , that they onely are abrahams seed meant in the covenant as it was evangelical gen , . . to be true believers or elect persons . the first is rom. . , , . in the setting down of the occasion of which words he saith , here ( rom. . , . ) is a catalogue of high privileges which belonged to the jews , which they acre to be cut off from , which l●y on paul ' s heart , and was like to sink him . but this is a frivolous conceit , for the privileges there reckoned are all or most of them of things already past , such as they could not be deprived of , for that which is already done cannot no not by god himself be not done , for it would imply a contradiction : so those that were israelites , whose were the fathers , who had the giving of the law , of whom as concerning the flesh christ came , could not be cut off from these privileges which were things past , yea to imagine that the jews should be deprived of those privileges is to overthrow the faith of the christians , who believe that christ came of the fathers of the israelites according to the flesh , of which the jews could not be deprived but by making it false . and for the rest of the privileges though our translators reade [ to whom pertains the adop●ion and the glory , not as mr. sidenham , the adoption of glory ] yet the greek being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which leaves out the verb to be supplied , it is clear that it should be read whose were the adoption and glory , and the covenants and the giving the law , and the service and the promises , and v. . whose were the fathers , as well as it is read from whom christ came , though the verb be not expressed , sith otherwise the speech were not true . for to the present israelites did not pertain the adoption , as if they then living were adopted or to be adopted children of god : for the apostle bemoans their rejection and cutting off . and the glory being meant of the ark , sam. . . or the cloud that covered it ezek. . . long before lost , and the covenants meant of the two tables of the law , being lost , and the giving the law , to wit , the judicial laws being an act cannot be expounded but of the time past , and so the service , to wit , the ceremonial worship now christ was come was no privilege to the present jews , but a heavy yoke , yet it was a great privilege to their ancestours , and the verb is to be read in the praeter-tense , and in like manner the promises were the israelites , that is , they had them first given to them , and had the benefit of them , and accordingly it is to be expounded thus , whose , that is , to which israelites were the promises fi●st made , and they injoyed the benefit of them the thing then that afflicted paul was , not that the present jews were to be cut off from those privileges , but that the people who had formerly so great tokens of gods peculiar respect to them should not be broken off from the olive-tree , rejected from being gods people , and hardned in unbelief . mr. sidenham thinks this text a weapon whose edg● is turned against these that count it their own . . saith he , the apostle is sadly troubled for his kinsmen after the flesh , for their rejection ; his reason is , because of the covenant and the promises made to them , because they were the natural seed of abraham ; which holds forth that the promises and privileges of the covenant were indefinitely to all the israelites . answer . it is true , the apostle was sadly troubled for the jews rejection , but rhe reason given is such as is scarce competent to a sober minde . for the reason , as he makes it , must either refer to his trouble or their rejection . if it refer to pauls trouble , the sense is , that paul was troubled because of the covenant , &c. but this should be a matter of rejoycing to him , not of trouble , unless he were troubled that god brake his covenant with them , because they were the natural seed of abraham ; but sure god never brake his covenant with them for that reason , nor is it to be imputed to god without imputing unfaithfulness to him , which were blasphemy to affirm . if it be referred to the jews rejection , then the sense is , they were rejected because of the covenant , &c. but sure they were not rejected because of the covenant made to them , but because of their unbelief in not being stedfast in the covenant , rom. . . there 's the like wit in the illation . for , . how were the promises made indefinitely , and yet to all the israelites ? [ all ] is not an indefinite note but an universal . . what is the meaning of that expression , the privileges of the covenant were made to all ? the making of privileges is somewhat an uncouth phrase . . what were the promises and privileges made to all the israelites , he tells us not , and so the reader is left to guess . . how pauls trouble or the reason given should hold that forth is another riddle which needs an oedipus , if such nonsense scribbling be counted worth ones study to unfold it . . saith he , that it 's a most sad thing to be excluded from the outward and general administration of the covenant . why should paul thus break out in his affections , for the loss of outward privileges , if it were not such a mercy to be under them ? answer . it is i confess a sad thing to be excluded from any mercy of god , much more to be excluded from though but an outward administration of the covenant of grace . but it is a sad thing to me that i finde a teacher of a church pretending so much zeal for truth to vent in print such a ridiculous conceit , as if pauls great sorrow and continual pain in his heart , by reason of that , for the remedy whereof he could wish himself accursed from christ , were for the exclusion from outward privileges , which they might have and yet be damned , and might want and yet be saved . if the outward privilege were circumcision they had it , if baptism they might have it , and yet be damned . and shall we think the apostle so foolish as to be thus troubled for such a loss ? . saith he , the apostle holds forth , that persons may be under the outward administration of the covenant , and yet not get the efficacy of it , vers . . they are not all israel that are of israel ; the covenant was with abraham and his seed , all that were of him ; and yet all were not israel , that is , partakers of the inward life and efficacy of the covenant . an. that which the apostle holds forth is not , as this man dotingly scribles , that persons may be under the outward administration of the covenant , that is , circumcised , &c. and yet no● get the efficacy of it , that is , have the circumcision of the heart , justification and eternal life : for though this be a truth , yet there 's not a word in the apostles answer v. , , . which gives any colour for such a paraphrase , there being no mention of circumcision or any such rite as they call the outward administration of the covenant , nor any words equipollent thereto . for to be of israel is to be descended of jacob by natural generation , as in like manner v. . to be the seed of abraham , and v. . the children of the flesh : nor could such an answer have met with the objection , which was not , if the jews were deprived of the outward administration , how could gods word stand to be a god to abraham and his seed ? but thus , if they were not his people to be justified and saved by christ , how could the word of god stand , gen. . . jer. . , . which seemed to promise they should be his people to be justified and saved by christ ? and therefore to answer , they had the outward administration , though not the inward efficacy is to confirm the objection , which is , that they had not that inward efficacy which the covenant promised : nor doth the apostle deny that those saving mercies were in the promises , nor think the promises salved by alleging that all had outward privileges though not saving mercies ; but by shewing that the saving mercies in those promises were not assured to every natural childe of abraham , or of israel , but to the choice seed distinguished from the rest by promise , and peculiar calling according to election , whether of jews or gentiles , and thereby made the israel of god , v. , , , . and so gods words of promise stands firm to that seed of abraham and israel to whom it was made , though the natural seed of abraham , and israel be rejected from being gods people . it is therefore expresly cross to what the apostle saith v. . which mr. sidenham saith , that the covenant was with abraham and his seed , all that were of him . and that which he saith , and so though they were under the outward dispensation of the covenant , yet god was not mutable , nor his promise , though he rejected them because of their own degeneration ; is directly contrary to the apostles determination that they were rejected meerly out of the absolute liberty of gods will , v. . which the apostle proves in the rejection of esau vers . , , . afore he had done good or evil , yea , afore he was born , and the speech to moses , v. . and the hardening of pharaoh , v. . and indeed if this paraphrase of mr. sidenham were good then the arminian doctrine of conditional reprobation were here expresly taught , that their rejection was because of their own degeneration , and consequently the election of the other , to wit , the gentiles must be , because of their own believing , and gods promise to be a god to them must presuppose their believing as the reason of his promise to them , which is the very dregs of pelagianism founding the difference between the called and rejected in mans will and not gods. what mr. sidenha● saith , that the covenant was made in general with abraham 's seed , to all that came from him , meaning by natural generation , is contrary to the apostles resolution v. , ▪ . and would make god a breaker of his promise , ( which was not of outward privileges , but of saving grace ) and supposes the covenant and the election not commensurate , contrary to the apostle , yea , to mr. sidenhams own words where he summs up the apostles resolution , when he saith , that none are the children of the promise ( to whom the covenant was made ) real saints but those that have the true effects of the covenant in their hearts . and what he saith , to all children of believers the promise visibly belongs to them ●s to abraham and his seed , it 's a piece of non-sense gibberish , such as paedobaptists use , according to their false hypotheses , no whit agreeing either with the promise gen. . , or the apostles determination rom. . , , . so often refelled by me , that it is superfluous to say of it any more now . as for what he adds , but here is nothing at all to demonstrate that infants , because children of the flesh , are not under the promise . i g●ant it , but say , there is enough to demonstrate that the promise of being a god gen. . . is not made to every believers childe , sith it was not made to all abrahams natural seed , but to the elect of them , which is enough for our purpose . mr. sidenhams proceeds to the text gal. . . which he grants not to be meant barely of christ personal , if , saith he , the promises were to christ mystical , then to all the elect as in him , and so to infants as well as grown persons , [ which i grant ] but thus the promise is conveyed under ground as it were , none knows the veins of it , which i also grant , untill the calling shews who were elect , nor do i count it any absurdity to yield it . but , saith he , take the promise to be made to christ , the seed , as the head of a visible church , then still it speaks for us . answer . this is doughty disputing , likely to turn the edg of our weapons against our selves , when the antagonist must yield him what he would have ; and me thinks he should have brought some expositour or some argument for him , and not so pitifully beg what he should prove . to the contrary i urge that by [ christ gal. . . ] is meant either christ personal or christ mystical , or both , and not as the head of a visible church . . that the promises said to be made to abraham 's seed , that is , christ are of the blessing of abraham , which is righteousness and the spirit , gal. . , , . the inheritance v. . life v. . not bare outward privileges . but these things belong onely to christ and his mystical body , not his meer visible church . ergo , they are not the seed there meant . . from the condition or means by which the promise is made good , and that is faith , v. , . but the meer visible church may be without faith , therefore the promise is not made to it . . by the express determination of the apostle v. . know ye therefore , that they which are of faith are the children of abraham , vers . . and if ye be christs ( that is by faith , v. , . ) then are ye abraham 's seed and heirs according to the promise : which a man would think were enough to silence th●se that make the promises to belong to unbelievers as abrahams seed . . the current protestant interpreters of note , such as beza , piscator , perkins , &c. go this way . but mr. sidenham thinks to evince his purpose from v. . where the blessing of abraham is said to come on the gentiles through christ , and this blessing of abraham was not personal , but to him and his seed , this very blessing is come on gentile believers , as on abraham ; therefore it must come on believers of the gentiles and their seed . for it cannot be called abraham , s blessing , except it come on the gentiles according to the substantial terms of abraham 's covenant : now this was the absolute form of abraham 's blessing , i will be a god of th●e and thy seed ; and this very blessing is come on the gentiles through christ , as it came on abraham ; and therefore it must be to believing g●ntiles and their seed ; else it will neither ●e abraham 's bl●ssing in the form nor fa●ness of it ; abraham 's blessing will descend on the gentiles clip● half off , not like it self : and it must needs be a very uncouth saying to all judicious ears , to say , that abraham 's blessing is come on the gentiles by christ , as it was on the jews by abraham , and to exclude half the subjects at once from any right to it ; for so you must , if you cast out the seed of gentile believers . to which i answered , that had not the assembly at westminster , confession of faith , chap. . art . . cited gal. . , . with gen. . , . to prove infant-baptism of a believing parent , i should not have transcribed so much of this arguing . the blessing of abraham must come on the gentiles , saith he , according to the substantial terms of the covenant , gen. . . ergo , on gentile believers and their seed . now what is the blessing of abraham ? and what the substantial terms of the covenant ? and what seed of abraham did it come on ? and how ? . the blessing is plainly expressed v. . . to be justification v. . to be the receiving the promise of the spirit . the same apostle rom. ▪ , . placeth the blessedness of abraham in the imputation of righteousness through faith , beza annot. in gal. . . et spiritus nomine benedictionem aeternae spiritualis vitae intelligo . perkins comment . on gal. . . that the blessing of abraham , that is , righteousness and life everlasting , piscat . schol. in gal. . . ut benedictio ill● abrahae promissa ( de qua supra v. . ) ad gentes perveniret in christo ; quatenus nimirum illae christo inseruntur per fidem , di●son in gal. . . benedictio abrahae , id est , justitia & vita aeterna . . the substantial terms of the covenant gen. . . are thus set down by mr. m. in his sermon , pag. . the substance of the covenant on gods part was to be abraham 's god , and the god of his seed , to be an all-sufficient portion , an all-sufficient reward for him , to give jesus christ to him , and righteousness with him , both of justification , and of sanctification , and of everlasting life . on abraham 's part the substance of the covenant was , to believe in the promised messiah , to walk before god with a perfect heart , to serve god according to his revealed will , to instruct his family , &c. not one that i know that makes the blessing or the substance of the covenant to be an initial seal , visible church-membership and such like meer ecclesiastical privileges . . the seed of abraham to whom the blessing is promised is his spiritual seed , and it onely . diodati annot. on gal. . . of abraham ] namely , promised to abraham , and to his spiritual posterity onely . trapp . comment on gal. . . v. . the promise of the spirit ] that is , the spiritual promise made to abraham , and his spiritual posterity . the text it self ●al . . . know ye therefore that they which are of faith , the same are the children of abraham . . the means is through faith , gal. . . so then they which be of faith are blessed with faithfull abraham , vers . . from which i infer , that he that would conclude from hence that the blessing of abraham comes upon the g●ntiles , fathers and infant-children , and that this is according to the substantial terms of the covenant , gen. . . must hold that all children of gentile believers are elect and believers , and that they are justified as abraham was , which mr. m. and mr. g. disclaim , and indeed is manifestly false being contrary to scripture and experience . but mr. sidenham thinks to infer hence a meer ecclesiastical privilege of right to an initial seal , which is not at all meant gal. . . by the blessing of abraham , nor ever meant by the covenant gen. . . nor would the promise be true , if meant of it ; for many of abrahams seed had no right to circumcision or visible church-membership . surely according to paedobaptists hypotheses all the posterity of abraham by ishmael , the sons of ▪ keturah , esaus were excluded ; and therefore the word of gods promise so expounded had been false . as for mr. sidenhams reasons , there 's no force in them . the first may be retorted , the first is come on gentile believers , as on abraham ; therefore it must not come on believers of the gentiles and their seed also universally , for it came not on abraham and his natural seed universally , nor is it true this very blessing is come on gentile believers as on abraham , for it is come on abraham not simply as a believer , but as a father of believers , not as father of men , but it comes on no gentile as father of believers , but as abrahams childe by faith . the next also may be retorted , if the blessing come on the gentiles according to the substantial terms of abraham 's covenant , then not in a meer outward ecclesiastical privilege , for that is no part of the covenant , gen. . . much less the substantial term of it , it is neither abraham 's blessing in the form nor fatness of it ; yea , if it be meant by abrahams blessing it , is clipt half off not like it self , it 's made an empty thing , a meer outward privilege without salvation , and so is in a manner reduced to nothing , and half the seed of abraham , all the females and many more are excluded from any right to it . for they had no right to the initial seal , to wit , circumcision . and to his question , and to what end should the apostle say , the blessing of abraham , and not the promise or covenant is come to the gentiles , but that he intended it to the gentile believers and their seed , as formerly it came to abraham and his seed ? i answer , he saith , the blessing of abraham ( not the promise or covenant of abraham ) because he in the chapter before mentioned it , and it was the proper eff●ct of christs being made a curse for us , though he after mention the covenant and promise according to which it is bestowed . but that the use of that term of [ the blessing of abraham ] should intimate an outward privilege of an initial seal to gentile believers and their natural seed is such a reason a● i am out of hope ever to understand . me thinks the use of that term vers . . compared with v. , , . doth overthrow the fond conceit of the assembly and mr. sidenham , and is so plain a determination , that the promise of being god to abraham 's seed , is meant onely of true believers of the gentiles , and not their natural seed , that if there were no more texts , it seems enough to me to overthrow their interpretation of gen. . . and the inference they make thence . and in this i commend mr. sidenha●s wit and the assemblies , that they let pass gal. . . without mentioning , finding perhaps that it is expresly contrary to their conceit of gentile believers children being reckoned for abrahams seed . i think it not amiss to add the word of mr. stalham vindic. redempt . against otes , gal. . ▪ . behold here a gospel-blessing comes upon all those who are freed from the legal curse , and if then ▪ the non-elected by this mans doctrine have the one , he must yield the other also ; if freed from the curse they are blessed , justified , and saved ones ; this is worse than non-sense , even impure blasphemy against the truth ▪ which shews all these to be connex to be freed from the curse , to be blessed with abrahams blessing , to be justified and saved , and therefore cannot be interpreted of a meer outward privilege belonging even to believers children who may be , as esau was , non-elect . there 's another text which mr. sidenham takes upon him to turn the edg of it against antipaedobaptists who produce it against paedobaptists , and he speaks thus , but in ga● . . . the apostle ( say they ) describes who are the seed ; if you be christ 's , then you are abraham 's seed , and heirs according to promise ; so that now no children born of believing parents can be the seed ; for they must be christ 's , according to that in v. . we are all the children of god through faith in christ jesus . answer . this text is clear not to prove ( as mr. sidenham represents ou● conclusion ) that now no children born of believing parents can be the seed , but that none of the gentiles are abrahams seed but those who are christs by their ●aith or election , and adoption to be the children of god , for such are all that are christs , and heirs according to the promise . but the children of believing gentiles are many of them not such , nor any of them in that he is the childe of a believing gentile ▪ therefore all the children born of believing parents are not abrahams seed , as paedobaptists suppose . to this mr. sidenham opposeth , . that the claromont bible hath it , if ye be one in christ , then are ye abraham 's seed , and that the apostles endeavour is to take away all difference between jew and gentile , and to hold forth their unity in christ , where there is no distinction as formerly : but now the gentiles being one in christ are abraham 's seed as well as the natural and believing jews . answer . it is granted , that the apostle takes away the difference between gentiles and jews who are in christ , and asserts that now the believing gentiles being one in christ arc abraham 's seed as well as the natural and beli●ving jews . but this makes for our purpose ; for as none of the natural iews but the elect and believing were abrahams spiritual seed , so it is concerning the gentiles , none of them either of their children are abrahams seed in the sense in which the gentiles may be termed abrahams seed but the elect and believing . . saith mr. sidenham , the apostle here hath no intent to shew the distinction of abraham 's seed as the subject of the outward privileges , and administrations of ordinances , but to shew that none are spiritually and really abraham 's seed and heirs of promise , but such as are christ 's , one in him with abraham : for if this should be the distinction of seed as the subject of outward ordinances , it would be as much against professing believers as infants ; for there is a carnal profession as well as a fleshly generation , the former more abominable . answer . i confess it is not the apostles intent to shew the distinction of abraham 's seed as the subject of the outward privileges and administration of ordinances : for neither doth he make there any distinction of abrahams seed , there being in that passage no seed of abraham mentioned but such as are spiritual , nor doth he mention abrahams seed as the subject , meaning the adequate subject of outward ordinances and privileges , there being many that were not abrahams spiritual seed , who might be circumcised , baptized , admitted to the pass-over and lords supper , and at least in some of these many who were might not , though v. , . compared together shew who were wont then to be baptized , to wit , believers , and such as at least in profession put on christ. and i conceive pauls intent was to shew , that none are spiritually and really abraham 's seed and heirs of promise , but such as are christ 's , one in him with abraham ▪ now this manifestly proves the thing we would have , that none of our children are abrahams seed in the gospel-sense according to which the promise gen. . . is to be understood , but elect and true believers , and so not in that covenant , and consequently not by virtue of interest in that covenant baptizable , as paedobaptists would have it . but i know not any who reason thus , none but these who are christ 's are abraham 's seed ; and none are chiist 's but real believers , and therefore none but they must be baptized . for though it is true , that before god none have right to baptism but such , yet sith the minister of baptism cannot distinguish between a believer in reality and one in profession he is without fault in baptizing a believer onely in profession , whom he takes to be a believer in reality . if any say , baptism knows no flesh , the meaning likely is that baptism is not alotted to any for its natural birth though of a believer . so that i need not answer mr. sidenhams arguments to the contrary , sith i do not assert that none but abrahams seed may be baptized . nor is it true , that we have the same ground of charity to act on infants of believers as on grown men . for though infants may be christs , yet we have not the same evidence that they are christs which we have of grown persons , whose words and actions shew that the spirit of god dwels in them . nor would god have us cor. . . to account the children to be holy as visible professours are for the parents faith , but to be legitimate from the lawfulness of their generation . nor can it be proved that any one infant of the most godly person is taken into the same covenant with the parent : nor doth christ 's respect to infants when brought to him give warrant to any to judg better of a believers infant than of a visible professour , or to account of such an infant as baptizable . nor is it true , that a general scripture-assertion , and the ground of an indefinite promise , is more than all our reasons to judg a visible professour christ 's or abraham 's seed , or a subject of baptism ▪ sith the words and actions of such a one do shew more of christs spirit and faith than any speeches of god or promises do of infants now existent , and he that baptizeth a visible professor of faith , proceedeth uppon certain knowledge according to a certain rule of baptizing disciples , which is more to assure the conscience in the doing the will of god , then any charitable judgement or any probable likelyhood of an infants being christs , or in covenant for the present , or certain revelation of the infants election and being in covenant , and so will be a believer hereafter can be to warrant a man to baptize it at this instant . nor is it true that he that baptizeth a visible professor , goes by the purblind eye of his probable judgment . for he baptizeth upon an unerring rule of baptizing manifest disciples , according to an unerring knowledge , that those he baptizeth are such under the gospel ; the jewes are abrahams fleshly seed , though they be not visible professors of faith in christ , no meer gentile visible professor is abrahams seed , nor any true believers natural seed as such , nor doth the covenant make every believer in reallity , or any , except abraham , much less every visible believer a spiritual father . i confess , the spiritual seed of abraham takes its denomination from the covenant ; i mean the future seed , and from their believing the actual , but the natural seed takes not its denomination from the covenant , but abrahams begetting , nor is it true the covenant made with abraham and his natural seed , is renewed in the new testament with believers and their seed , neither formerly nor now are infants of believers non-elect abrahams seed , nor is there in the word of god one passage either in the old or new testament either of those alleaged by master sidenham or any other , i know , wherein infants of believers are visibly owned as we own visible professors . there will be found visible subjects of baptism . though neither infants of believers , nor meer visible professors be abrahams seed . i conclude my animadversions on this chapter of mr. sidenhams with these considerations , that none but elect or true believers of the gentiles are the seed of abraham with whom the covenant gen. . . is made , nor are persons to be baptized for their interest in that covenant , except it be made manifest by their profession of faith , and therefore neither can we say of any infant of a believing gentile that he is in that covenant , nor if we could , were it to be baptized till by profession or other waies , its faith did manifest it to be a disciple of christ. in the . chapter mr. sidenham tells us of a being in covenant according to the purpose of election in gods heart , which i allow , and of being in covenant in the face of the visible church by the persons own visible profession , which i deny not , but for the other sort of being in covenant with god as in a political moral consideration , as in the right of another through a free promise to him and his heirs , it 's a meer figment , there being no such kind of being in covenant in the time of the new testament , nor doth mr. sidenham bring one text of scripture to prove it : and for his reasons they prove it not , . saith he , if men deny an external as well as internal being in covenant , none can administer an external ordinance an outward sign to any , for we must go by external rules in these actings . but this reason is nothing to prove a political moral being in covenant without any act of covenanting by either of the parties in covenant . i deny not , but that all the elect are in covenant with god in his purpose and so infants are in covenant with god by gods promise , eiher to his son when he gave them to him , or at some other time . and i grant that visible professors of faith in christ are in covenant externally by their own act of covenanting , and such may be baptized they being disciples of christ. . nor did i ever say that no ordinance must be administred to these ▪ which are not internally in covenant . . nor do i count it any absurdity to say we may set a seal to a blank ( though i like not the expression ) in this sense a man may lawfully be baptized to whom god hath not promised to be his god. . and i have shewed we have certain evidence of visible professors being in covenant , for we hear their profession and see thei● actions , and their rule by which baptism is to be administred , but of infants we have no evidence of their being in covenant by profession of faith , according to which we are to be baptized , yea we have evidence to the contrary , and their being in covenant according to election is uncertain , and if it were certain , yet till they be actual believers or disciples of christ we have no rule to baptize them by , nor is there a jot brought by mr. sidenham to prove they are in covenant by their parents faith onely in gospel times . nor doth any thing mr. sidenham hath said answer that which he saith is the great question i and we all urge , that if god made the covenant with believers and their seed , they must be all saved , &c. but in stead of answering me poseth me thus , doth god make the covenant of salvation with every visible professor whom they baptize● or with every visible saint . answ. no ; or do they baptize them out of covenant ? answ. yea ; if by being out of covenant be meant , that the covenant of salvation is not made by god to them ; then how come any to fall off and be damned ? answ. none of those god made the covenant of salvation with fall off and be damned , others though baptized rightly and were visible professors , yet fall off and are damned , because the covenant of salvation was never made ●y god to them , or what rule have they to baptize by ? answ. that which is , mat. . . mark . , . acts . , . and . , , . why should it be thought more hanious to set a seal on ( i. e. baptize ) infants , as in the covenant , then on these professors which afterwards prove not to be in covenant . ans. because infants are not disciples of christ , when visible professors are , though they be not in covenant with god by his promise of saving-grace . the being or not being in covenant is not the reason of the baptizing or not baptizing of them , but their being or not being disciples of christ , or do they baptize because that persons are in the covenant ? answ. not because they are in the covenant that is gods covenant to them , but because they covenant to be christs by their own declaration and promise , which is certainly known upon hearing their words and seing their actions , nor is it any trick to evade , but a clear truth , that it is not being in covenant ( by gods promise of saving grace to us ) but being an actual believer , gives right to baptism ; nor doth it follow if the covenant be the ground ( i. e. the object ) of faith , it may well be the ground ( i. e. adequate reason on the baptizer and the baptizeds part ) of an outward privilege i. e. baptism , for the institution is not to baptize men in covenant by gods act of promise , but disciples or persons in covenant by their professing of faith . nor is there danger of separating the covenant from the conveyance of actual priviledge ; for the covenant of it self , till it is fulfilled by the making a person a known disciple of christ , doth not give right to baptism any more then to the lords supper . nor is there reason why infants without faith should now be baptized because they were circumcised , the institution of the one being different from the other , neither do we account simon magus , &c. abrahams spiritual seed , nor deny elect infants to be so , if god doth administer all his graces by covenant , yet not all outward ordinances by the persons interest in it , and if he did , then infants by this reason should have the lords supper as well as baptism . the invisible design of god may be known to us , and is carried on secretly in an outward visible dispensation ▪ and some may be condemned by an outward rule , and yet persons not admitted into or ejected out of the church by their being or not being in covenant through gods act of promise to them , but by their profession and practise we say not , none are to be baptized but real believers , the spiritual seed , nor that none are the spiritual seed but visible believers , nor do we conceive infants no spiritual seed of abraham because no visible believers ; but we deny that an infant of a believer is as visible by promise as a believer by profession . for on the one side no infant is of the visible church barely by gods promise of regeneration , justification , salvation . . because that promise is according to gods election , which is secret , so as that no man can know who are they to whom the promise pertaines , till it appear by some others declaration then the promise or act , an infant can ordinarily perform . . that which makes a thing or person visibly must be something existent in act , for then a thing or person is visibly when it is the object of sense , but sense is onely of singular things actually existent . but persons may have a ptomise afore they are in being , as isaac was in covenant afore he was begotten or born , yet not a visible church-member , therefore an infant is not visible by promise . . on the other side profession makes a person manifestly visible , and therefore mr. sidenhams speech is palpably false , that an infant is as visible by promise , as a believer by profession . sect . xxviii . it is proued from luke . , . and . . john . . rom. . , , , , , , . gal. . , , . and . . rom. . , , . mat. . . that the seed of abraham to whom the promise as evangelical is made , gen. . . are onely true believers or elect persons . to those texts in the foregoing section alleaged to prove that the seed of abraham to whom the promise , gen. . . as it is evangelical belongs , are only true believers or elect persons , which have been vindicated from mr. sidenhams answers , i shall adde some more in the new testament . . in maries song , luke . . it is said , he hath holpen his servant israel , in remembrance of his mercy as he spake to our fathers , to abraham , and to his seed for ever . that seed of abraham is onely meant in the promise , gen. . . as it was evangelical which he hath holpen by christ in remembrance of his mercy ; this is manifest from the text . but they are onely true believers or elect persons . pisc. schol. in luk. . . semini . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est posteritati nempe spirituali , id est electis ; sive sint ex judeis , sive ex gentibus , ut docet apostolas rom. . v. . and ch . . v. . new annot on luke . . to his seed for ever , that is to the faithfull and holy . see gal. . . , , . they only are holpen by christ in remembrance of his mercy , which is confirmed from the words of zacharias , luke . , , , , . , , . wherein the holy covenant and oath god sware to abraham was , that he would grant them that is ( abrahoms seed ) salvation , deliverance , to serve god in holyness and righteousness before him all the daies of their life , the salvation is expressed to be by remission of sins , through the tender mercy of god , whereby the day spring from on high visited them , which shewes , the covenant as it was evangelical , promised not outward privileges but saving graces , which are not promised to any but elect persons , therefore by abrahams seed in the promise , gen. . . as it was evangelical are , meant onely elect or true believers . . it is said of zaccheus , luke . . this day is salvation come to this house , for so much as he also is the son of abraham , for the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost ; in which words the term [ son of abraham ] is made to infer salvation , and zaccheus in that he was the son of abraham , proved to be one that the son of man came to seek and save which can agree onely to elect persons , therefore the term [ seed of abraham ] equipollent to [ son of abraham ] as evangelically such notes onely elect persons or true believers . piscat . analys . luc. . . electio dei patris significatur v. . his verbis , eo quod ipse quoque filius abrahae est , ubi intelligitur non simpliciter filius secundum carnem , sed filius secumdum promissionem dei , qua promiserat ipsum futurum patrem credentium , schol . filius abrahae , nempe filius secundum promissionem , id est electus , vide , rom. . v. . and . new annot on luke . . is the son of abraham , to be a son of abraham is to be chosen freely , rom. . . to walk in the steps and faith of abraham . rom. . , . and generally to do the good works of abraham , john . . whereby we moy be assured of election to eternal life , rom. . , . pet. . . trap com , in luke . . he also is a son of abraham that is freely elected , rom. . a follower of abrahams faith , rom. . . and a doer of his works , john . . . it is said by our lord christ , john . . if ye were abrahams children ye would do the works of abraham , he granted them ver . . to be abrahams seed by nature , but not the seed of abraham according to the covenant evangelical , because their practise was unlike abrahams . whence i inferre , they onely evangellically are abrahams children or seed even of those who descended from abraham by generation who are like unto abraham in their actions . but such onely are true believers or elect persons , therefore true believers or elect persons onely are abrahams children or seed evangelical . diodati . annot. on john . . children , namely true and lawfull imitators ●f abrahams faith : father of all believers ; wherein consists the true meaning of this name of children of abraham , rom. . . and . , . gal. . . . with our lord christs words accord the words of paul , who doth plainly determine that the seed of abraham to whom the promise , gen. . . that god would be the god of abrahams seed , as it was eavngelical belongs , are believers or elect persons and no other , rom. . , , , , , , . is so plain to prove it that the very reading the words is enough to clear it to a heedfull reader . for therein the apostle doth shew how the promises , gen. . . are true of the gentiles as well as the jewes . in that abraham is considered therein as the father of believers , v. . and the father of circumcision , that is as beza of the circumcised , yet not a father to all of them , nor to them onely , but to those circumcised ones onely , and with them to all other that believe , or walk in the steps of that faith , which our father ( of us believing gentiles ) abraham had being yet uncircumcised , v. . ▪ now if abraham be considered in the promises as evangelical onely as the father of believers of either sort circumcised , or uncircumcised , then the seed of abraham are onely believers or elect persons . and to this purpose doth master dickson paraphrase the words thus . abraham received from god the sign of circumcision to seal the covenant of grace , or the righteousness of faith , which ●e had uncircumcised to that end , that he might be father of uncircumcised believers ▪ and in like manner of circumcised , to wit , who are both sons of the flesh , and sons of the faith of abraham . therefore the righteousness of faith is common to the circumcised , and uncircumcised believers , or them that follow the steps of the faith of abraham not yet circumcised . but abraham is said to be the father of believers , in that he is the first eminent example of faith , and of righteousness imputed by faith , and by his example an author to all that they may believe . beza in his note on rom. . . for as speaking of the uncircumcised , he said not simply that abraham was the father of them all , but of them onely who should believe , he also hath deservedly kept the same distinction in the jewes , because ( as i said before ) it is not simply the apostles purpose to teach abraham to be the father of both the uncircumcised and the circumcised , but also especially by what reason he is the father of both , which is his scope . for to be a child of abraham before god , and to be justifyed by faith cohere , again v. . shewes the same . for the promise that he should be the heir of the world was not to abraham , or to his seed through the law , but through the righteousness of faith . i shall use the words of the same authors . dickson thus paraphraseth , v. . he proves abraham to be father not but of believers onely , uncircumcised alike and circumcised , and together addes a third argument . the promise made to abraham and his seed , that he should be heir of the land of canaan in time , and of the world and heaven in truth , came not to him by the law , or by the condition of works , but happened to him by an absolute promise to him already justified by faith , and having the righteousness of faith . therefore his sons are not they which are of the law seeking to wit righteousness by works , but they onely who are by faith , seeking righteousness by faith , that is all and onely believers , circumcised alike and uncircumcised , to whom equally the common righteousness of faith and the inheritance is promised . the argument is of force , for if father abraham be not the heir of the world , nor have righteousness but by faith , certainly none are his sons but believers , who have righteousness by faith , and by righteousness the inheritance . beza annot. ad rom. . . but in these words there is a continuation of the former conclusion , the application of the example of abraham neither to the circumcised , neither to the uncircumcised , otherwise not availing unless two things be shewed : to wit that god made that covenant not with abraham alone , but with his heirs also , and that under the name of his posterity , any who shall believe that covenant like abraham are understood . therefore paul conjoynes the promises of god made to abraham , as it were into one body , and when he had taught all believers whether cicrumcised , or uncircumcised to be abrahams sons , he verily deservedly calls abraham the heir of the world , by the term world understanding all nations , and therein following the lords st●ps . for when the lord had said to abraham that he would be the god of him and his seed , after he expounded what he understood by the term seed ; to wit all the nations of the earth , when he said that it should be , that in him he would vouchsafe them all his grace . the next v. also confirms it , v. . for if they which are of the law be heirs , faith is made void , and the promise made of none effect , which mr. dickson thus paraphraseth , if they which are of the law , or which seek righteousness by works , were the sons of abraham , and heirs of life , and partakers of righteousness , then faith should be made void , and the promise vain : but this is absurd . therefore they which are of the law are not heirs , but alone believers are sons of abraham , and heirs of life and righteousness . the . v. doth yet more plainly express that the seed of abraham to whom the promise , gen. . . as evangelical is made are believers onely . therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace , to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed , not to that onely which is of the law , but to that also which is of the faith of abraham , who is the father of us all . upon which saith mr. dickson with that uery counsel god appointed that the inheritance should be of faith ; that it might agpear to be of grace or by grace . therefore onely and all believers uncircumcised , and circumcised alike , are heirs . the inheritance is of faith and by grace by the counsel of god , that the promise might be sure to all the ●eed , not onely to that which is the seed of abraham by the law of nature and hath faith also , that is the circumcised jewes believing ▪ but also to that seed which is not by the law of nature or the flesh , but onely by the faith of abraham , that is the uncircumcised believing gentiles . therefore , unless suspending the promise of righteousness , and the inheritance upon the condition of the law to be performed , we would make it unsure and uncertain , the whole seed of abraham , or all and onely believers circumcised and uncircumcised , are heirs by faith with father abraham , who according to faith is father of all us believers of jewes and gentiles . beza annot. ad rom. . . paul manifestly devides into two members that which in general he had said of the whole seed of abraham , that is believers both circumcised and uncircumcised , pisc. sch. to all the seed ] that is of abraham , to wit all believers , diodati ▪ to all , namely to the spiritual seed according to the faith , of which god intended to speak in that excellent promise , i will be thy god and of thy seed after the , gen. . , lastly the apostle interprets the promise , gen. . . that abraham should be the father of many nations , thus that the gentiles should be his seed by faith , v. . as it is written , i have made thee a father of many nations , on which master dickson . by force of the divine promise , promising that he should be the father of many nations . abraham embraced for sons all believers to be ingrafted into his seed , and so in vertue of the promise , as it were begat or conceived believers to himself as sons promised . the new annot on rom. . . i have made thee a father , see gen. . . not of those only that should issue from him according to the flesh , but also of those among all nations that by faith should be adopted and received into his spiritual family . . the texts also which are ; gal. . , , ● , and , . are very pregnant to the same purpose , that the seed of abraham to which the promise , gen. . . as evangelical is made , are only true believers , or elect persons . the first of these places is that which is asserted in terms . know ye therefore that they which are of faith the same are the children of abraham , where the speech is equipollent to an exclusive . for having , v. . . told them they must have the spirit , and be abrahams children either by the works of the law or by faith , and determined that they had not the spirit by the works of the law , but by faith , supposing that they who are children have received the spirit as it is , v. . it plainly followes that they only are the children of abraham which are of faith , even as protestant divines conclude from gal. . . that justification is by faith only , because the disjunction being sufficient , justifycation is either by faith , or by works , and works excluded , it followes , we are justified by faith onely . and so mr. dickson conceives that the apostles argument is , gal. . . they onely who are of the faith , or who seek to be justified by faith , and not by works , are the children of abraham , therefore the only reason of justification is by faith . diodati annot. on gal. . . yet you know ( that is to say ) this doctrine is clear and resolved upon amongst christians , that the true children of abraham comprehended in the covenant which god made with him and his posterity are not the carnal jewes , which are borne of him , or joined to him by circumcision , and by professing of their ceremonies ; but all such as according to abrahams example do renounce all confidence in their own proper works , and put it wholly in gods promises and grace in christ ▪ as abraham was made a father , example and paragon of faith , to all those to whom the covenant made with him was to appertain . the like is the determination of mr. perkins ( that i may omit others ) who in his com . on gal. . . saith the promise and election of god makes properly children of abraham , and that the true mark of the child of abraham is to be of the faith of abraham , and that profession of abrahams faith , and descent from isaac are not sufficient to prove men children of abraham without following of his faith . the texts , gal . , . have been considered before , and our inferences vindicated from mr. sidenhams evasions . the other to wit , gal. . . speaks to the same purpose to which the fore alleaged texts do . now we brethren as isa●c was , are children of the promise , that is we of whom the jerusalem which is above is mother , that is as beza annot. adde v. . we who embraced christ , adde v. . he shewes the true sons of abraham are born spiritually by the gospel , adde v. . are children of the promise , that is that seed to which pertaineth that promise , i will be a god to thee and thy seed , out of all which it appears that as the promise , gen. . . i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed after thee was evangelical , it was made only to the elect of god and true believers , and they only are abrahams seed there meant . . i shall next adde the consideration of that text , rom. . ; , . wh●re the apostle speaks thus ; not as though the word of god hath taken none effect . for they are not all israel which are of israel ; neither because they are the seed of abraham are they all children ; but in isaac shall thy seed be called , that is , they which are the children of the flesh , these are not the children of god , but the children of the promise are counted for the seed . i suppose it will not be denyed , that this passage is an answer to an objection occasioned by the intimating of the rejection of the jewes from being gods people , v. . , , , . if any should deny it yet the matter and form of expression , v. . shewes it to be opposed to something which might be objected against what was before implyed . for the speech , the word of god hath not fallen , or not taken effect ; intimates that there was some word of god which seemed to be without effect , or to fall if the jewes were cast off from being gods people . and it appears by the answer that the word of god was some promise concerning israel as , v. . shewes , and abrahams seed as v. . , . shewes . the word of god concerning abrahams seed which might be conceived to fall , appears upon inquisition to have been that , gen. . . either only or chiefly piscat . sch. in rom. . . that word of god , to wit that promise made to abraham , i will be thy god and of thy seed after thee . dickson expos . annaly● . rom. . . the word of god hath fallen , when he said to abraham , i will be thy god and of thy seed , i conceive it needless to adde any more , it being so manifest and so conceived by interpreters of note . hence it appears also that the objection answered by the apostle is this , god promised to be a god to abraham and his seed after him in their generations in an everlasting covenant , therefore if the jewes who are abrahams seed are rejected , the word of god falls . to this the apostle answers . . by denying that every jew who was descended from abraham by natural generation , and so a child of the flesh is meant by the seed there named , who should be the child of god , and so the promise of being god to them is not meant of all abrahams natural posterity . . by asserting that they who are counted for the seed and were children of the p●omise , that is those to whom that evangelical promise , gen. . . belonged , were a peculiar number whether of jews , or gentiles , according to gods own choice and calling distinguished by no other discriminating reason but gods will , as he proves in isaac and ishmael , v. . esau and jacob , v. ▪ , , . and otherwise in that which followes . whence it appears . that the promise , gen. . . was not made to abrahams natural posterity as such , and if so , then it is not made to every child of a believer . . that only the elect whether of jews or gentiles are the seed of abraham to whom the promise , gen. . . is made , and consequently to no other of a beleivers children , but the elect : nor any other in covenant with god by vertue of that promise but they . this to be the apostles determination i confirmed , exam. part . . sect . . by the speeches of beza , twisse , ames , bayn , walaeus , dounam , new annot , ainsworth , pareus , estius ( who though a papist , yet is reputed more solid and right about the the point of grace , then the jesuits are ) and added in my praecursor pag. . the words of mr. rutherford of scotland , and mr. no●ton of new england . to which i have added more testimonies of beza , chamier , and the belgick professors at the synod of dort●n ●n my refutation of dr. savage his position in latin , sect . and because mr. blake seeks so much to possesse people as if i drew this from the jesuits , i will add mr dicsons words on rom. . , . neither doth it follow b●cause the jewes are the seed of abraham according to the flesh , that therefore they are all sons in the scripture sense or the seed promised . for so even the issmaelites should be accounted for ab●ahams seed contrary to scripture , which hath restrained the right of sons to isaac and his family , by saying , in isaac shall thy seed be called . the sons of the flesh are to be distinguished from the elect sons of god , for this god would , when ismael being secluded , he called isaac the seed of abraham , that not all are the elect sons of god , but onely the children of promise ( or whom god determined of grace to make with isaac sons of the faith of abraham ) are the children of god , and that seed to whom the promise is made . dr. owen of perseverance , chap. . sect. . the apostle , rom . calleth the elect the children of the promises , or those to whom the promises to abraham and his seed were made . chap. . sect. the persons to whom this promise ( isai. ● ▪ . ) is made , are called thee and thy seed , that is all those and onely those , with whom god is a god in covenant . god here minds them of his first making of this covenant with abraham & his seed , gen. . . now who are this seed of abrhaam ? not all his carnall posterity , not the whole nation of the jewes . our saviour not onely denies , but also proves by many arguments , that the pharisees and their followers , who doubtless were of the nation of the jewes , and the carnall seed of abraham , were not the children of abraham in this sense , nor his seed , but rather the devils , john. . . , . and the apostle disputes and argues the same case , rom. . , , . and proves undeniably that it is believers only ( whether circumcised or uncircumcised , whether jewes or gentiles ) that are this seed of abraham and heirs of the promise . so plainly , gal. . . know yee therefore that they which are of the faith , are the children of abraham , and then concludes again as the issue of his debate , verse so then they which be of faith , are blessed with faithfull abraham . mr. marshal himselfe in his defence , pag. . saith , secondly by the word [ seed ] was meant the children of the promise , the elect , rom. . ●s mr. bayne , nay arminius himselfe confesses : onely arminius saith , that they were elected upon foresight of their faith . and indeed so far as i discern in the reading of arminius his analysis of the ninth of the romanes the cited remonstrants defence of their opinion at the synod of dort on the first article , mr. john goodwin his late exposition of the ninth to the romans it is agreed , that in the mystical sense the promise gen , . . is determined by the apostle , rom. , , , to belong onely to the elect , though the remonstrants would have them elected upon consideration of believing , and the contra-remonstrants , according to the apostles determination , verse &c. assign no other reason of the election of some & rejection of others , but gods will. all do agree that the apostle determines , that every child of abraham , much lesse of every believer , is not a child of the promse , or the seed of ahraham to whom the promise is made , gen. . . but the elect or true believers , whether jewes or gentiles . . it is proved that the promise gen. . . as it was evangelicall , or as the apostle speaks , gal. . . the covenant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , fore-confirmed of god unto christ , was not to every believers naturall seed , but to the true believers or elect persons , who are meant by abrahams seed , because it can be true onely of them . for in the evangelical sense to whom god promiseth to be god he promiseth to justifie them , to regenerate them , to raise them up to eternall life , as appears by our saviours own reasoning , luke . , . where he infers from gods avouching himselfe to be the god of abraham , his living to god , & rising from the dead to eternal life , by the apostles inference rom. . . from thence that righteousness is by faith , rom. . , . determining them to be elect people of god , to whom he hath promised to be god , heb. , ▪ &c. but god doth not promise to every believers child , to justifie , regenerate , and raise him to eternal life for if he did promise it he would perform it , to say he makes a promise to any , and to say they have not the efficacie of it , is to make god a lyar , whereas many children of believers are never justified , regenerated , nor shall be raised to eternall life . he performs it to all true believers and elect persons , and to none other , therefore none others are meant there by abrahams seed in the evangelical sense . lastly , the words of john baptist matth . . when he saw many of the pharisees and sadduces come to his baptism saying to them , and think not so say within your selves , we have abraham to our father : for i say unto you that god is able of these stones to raise up children unto abraham , do evince ● that repenting and believing persons though raised by god of stones without naturall generation , are the children of abraham to whom the promise is made , gen. . . . that it was not their naturall descent from abraham without repentance and gospel faith , which did entitle them to gods favour , or to his baptism , and therefore it follows thence , that the children of abraham to whom the promise is , gen . . are onely the elect or true believers . . that to be the child of a believer is not a sufficient title to gods favour , or baptism . to this purpose paraeus com. in matth. . he teacheth also that the promises of god are not tied to fleshly birth , but pertain only to believing & spiritual posterity . for they are not sons of abraham who according to the flesh are of abraham , but who are according to the spirit . piscat . sch. in mat●h . . . his sentence is , although ye come from abraham according to the flesh , yet ye are not therfore those sons of abraham to whom pertains the promise of eternall life made to abraham and his seed : for this belongs to them who imitate abrahams faith and piety . diodati annot. on matth. . and think not , do not dally with your selves to think that because you are issued from abraham according to the flesh , you are in gods favour and free from his judgement : for with him the imitation of abrahams faith and piety is the on●ly thing which demonstrates and causeth to be the children of abraham , and not the corporall generation , rom . . now such children may be brought forth of all nations , yea and out of these stones . neither do you perswade your selves , that by your perdition gods people shall perish : for gods people shall always subsist in these spiritual children of abraham towards whom gods covenant and promises shall be verified . this then is the constant doctrine of the new testament , that the promise gen. . . as evangelicall , is made onely to the elect and true believers , that they onely are abrahams seed spirituall , and so onely in the covenant of grace by gods promise , and therefore if it be true that they onely who are in covenant , which paedobaptists say when they say the seal follows the covenant , are to be baptized , not any one because he is the child of a believer , but the elect and true believers are to be baptized , and so their own argument for infant-baptism overthroweth it . sect . xxix . the allegation of rom. . , , , matth. . , , . to prove that the seed to which the promise gen. . . as evangelicall belongs , are true believers , or the elect onely , is vindicated from mr. blakes answer vindic. foed ▪ ch . . and mr. sidenhams exercit. ch . . to my allegation of rom , . , , . in my examen , part . sect . . mr. blake undertakes to give an answer , vindic. foed , ch . . and first having belied me as borrowing from stapleton the jesuit , and learning to a ●air to follow him , though to my remembrance i never read that passage in him , which he allegeth , nor made any use of his exposition of the epistle to the romans , or any other of his works in that book of mine , he proceeds thus in his scoffing calumniating fashion , like a satyrist rather than a disputant . we have drunk up the protestants poyson , and mr. t. his great care is , to preserve his party by the jesuits antido●● ; be is wholly beholding to them for the receipt . which is mr. blakes manifest calumny , as the quotations in my examen part sect . . in which he might see that i received it from the most eminent protestants , and alleged but one papist , and he no jesuit , but one of the better note , and since , the quotations in the foregoing section do fully prove , and it were easie to produce treble the number if need were . but i find it in vain to endeavour the satis●ying of such eager and through prejudice selfe-blinding antagonists , as mr. blake is , i could ( if i liked such arts as mr. blake useth ) tell mr blake he borrows from the jesuit bellarmin , who against peter martyr saying the promise gen. . , is not universall concerning the children of beleivers , but hath place onely in the predestinate , replies , this is said without proof , for the words of the scripture are absolute , nor is there any mention of predestination in that whole chapter . but mr blake promiseth me square dealing in the examining my argument , and sets down my words at length , and then in stead of answering it , puts divers quaere's to me , yeelding first to me , that the text gen. . . was in that place rom. . , , , brought into question by the apostle . saith he , how bain and ame● come to the name of remonstrants ? i had thought they had been on the party that are called contra-remonstrants ? answer . and so a●so did i , and therefore called them the answerers of arminius , and the cited remonstrants , not remonstrants , as mr. blake not heeding my words suggests , as one not willing to omit any thing whether right or wrong which may render me odious or contemptible . . saith he , where it appears that arminius conceived that the covenant there spoken to was the word of the law and not of promise , i am sure in his analysis on this chapter to the romans ( of which mr. t. should not be ignorant , little lesse than vapouring of his examination of it in oxford apolog. page . ) he spake in another manner , even in mr. t. his own dialect , as though the ones comment had been spit out of the mouth of the other . the sons of the flesh with the apostle ( saith he ) are those who by the works of the law follow after righteousness and salvation . the so●s of the promise are those that seek after righteousness and salvation by faith in christ , and he thus frames the principall syllogism of the apostle for confutation of the jewes arguing from the rejection of the jew●s , gods failing in his promise . if the word of god comprehend onely the sons of the promise , shutting out the sons of the flesh , then it follows that the word of god doth not fail , ●hough the sons of the flesh be rejected : but the word of god comprehends onely the sons of the promise , shutting out the sons of the flesh : therefore the word of god doth not fail though the sons of the flesh be rejected . armin. anal. cap . ad rom. pag. , let any now judge whether he can interpret this of the law and not of the promise . answer . the mention of my examining of arminius his analysis of rom. . is little less than vapouring , as mr blake in his spitefull fashion terms it , but a necessary allegation with modesty to clear my self from his false charge , that i had lately preached this as a gospel ●ruth , that this is one of the promises of the covenant of grace , that god will be the god of beleivers and their seed , and that now i was suddenly otherwise perswaded . if the reader view my words , he wil discern a spirit of malice or waywardness in mr blakes misrepresenting of my actions , . to his quaere i answer , that i have not now arminius his book , to discern whether it was arminius his conceit or not , nor need i prove it was , not alleging it as of my own search , but upon the credit of bain and ames . and i find in that edition i have of bain on ephes . anno . pag. . on vers . . that he saith , that arminius was deceived in this among other things , that the objectors whose objection paul preventeth vers . . do by the word of god conceive the word of the covenant legall , which he refutes as one of those mistakes which did mislead arminius : nor doth mr. blake at all acquit arminius from this mistake which mr. bain charged him with . for mr. bain did not charge him with that mistake in the framing of the apostles principal syllogism for confutation of the jewes arguing from the rejection of the jewes gods failing in his promise , but in the framing the objection v. . as if the jewes objection , that if they were rejected who by the works of the law sought righteousness , then gods word in the legall covenant to take them to be his people who kept the law , did fail : which mr. bain refutes , and shewes , that the objection did arise concerning gods word about their naturall descent , as being israel and abrahams seed , which is the same which i alleged . and the same is the observation of ames concerning the cited remonstrants , animadv . in remonstr . script synod . de praedest . ch . . sect . . where he hath these words , remonstr . autem pro confesso & concesso habent , agi hic de sermone legis , sicut apparet ex illis verbis : si legem moses non violarint ; qui legem sequuntur . sed in textu agitur de sermone promissionis , qui efficax est in populo praecognito ▪ de quo praecip●e glori●bantur judaei , semetipsos abrahae filios , & haer●des promissionis ipsi factae jactitantes , sicut ex pauli responso patet . so that if the reader do conceive that arminius in the words cited by mr. blake , meant by the word of god the word of promise not of the law , yet arminius might conceive the word of god in the objection of the jewes to be the legall covenant or word of the law , in which mr. bain , and i after him , took him to be deceived . . whereas he saith , that arminius speaks in mine own dialect , as though the ones comment had been spit out of the mouth of the other , alleging arminius his words , and af●er his third quaere is , when he affirms , that to be born after the flesh is all one with the apostle with legal justiciaries , apolog. pag. . ( which is arminius his interpretation ) how then can he by that distinction of children of the flesh , and children of the promise , shut out the naturall seed of abraham ? are the n●●urall seed of abraham and legall justiciaries one and the same ? he continues his spitefull language and calumniating course . for . though it is true that apol. pag. . i s●y one born after the flesh●s all one with the apostle as legal justiciaries , yet i limit this speech to the apostles speech , gal. . , &c. and therefore it is a meer calumny that in the explication of rom. , , , i sp●ke in arminius his dialect , as if my comment had been spit out of his mouth . yea it might easily have been deprehended by mr. blake , that i rejected arminius his explication of children of the flesh , and children of the promise , rom. . in that i excepted exam. part . sect . . against this very thing in arminius his exposition , & did recite mr. bains words , who grants , that elsewhere sons of the flesh are put for legal justiciaries , yet denies it of the phrase rom. . . where he proves it notes barely natural descent from abraham , page , . . to this question i answer , . i shut not out the naturall seed of abraham universally from the promise , but only do not include them universally & this i do from the apostles distinction not understood in arminius his sense . to his second question , are the naturall seed of abraham and legall justiciaries one and the same ? i answer , no. for saith mr. blake , if the apostle exclude all the naturall seed of abram from this covenant of god with abraham , ( as mr. t. from stapleton argues ) and take in onely his spiritual seed , how can he be reconciled to himself ? answ. there are divers untruths in this passage : first , it is untrue that i do argue that the apostle excludes all the natural seed of abraham from this covenant of god with abraham . . that i argue this from stapleton , which i am sure is most false , nor would have been said by mr , blake if he had any care to refrain from calumniating me . . nor do i think by mr. blakes own allegation of stapletons wor●s in this chapter , from whence he imagines i borrowed my arguing that stapleton himself did so argue , but mr. blake misreports him also . my assertion is , and if stapleton do agree with me , i like it not the worse , that in the promise gen. . . as it is evangelical assuring regeneration , justification , and life eternall , all the naturall seed of abraham are not included , but grant that many have been and shall be included , yet say , that as they are his naturall seed so they are his spirituall seed by believing or election , and that to the elect onely that promise as evangelicall is made by god , and that this the apostle determines and proves , and no where gainsays . but saith mr. blake , in the words immediatly before this objection , he speaks of the jewes ( as his kinsmen according to the flesh ▪ which were the naturall seed of abraham ) and saith , to them pertain the adoption , the glory , and the covenants , &c. how then can his distinction be interpreted to throw them out of covenant , when in express terms he had affirmed that they were in covenant ? how can he deny that these are children , v. , when he had affirmed that to them pertaineth the adoption v. . answer . if the apostle had affirmed those jewes his kinsmen after the flesh , that they were in covenant , gen. . . and adopted , for whom he sorrowed so much , v. . he had plaid the hypocrite , expressing his sorrow for them as not included in the covenant , who he knew were in it , he had trifled in raising an objection from thence and answering it , yea he had contradicted himself , who v. . saith , all are not israel that are of israel , and v . that because they were the seed of abraham , they were not all children , v. . that the children of the flesh are not the children of god , opposing the children of the promise to the children of the flesh . and it will concern mr. blake to reconcile the apostle to himselfe , if he should mean as mr blake expounds him , nor do i know how he could with any shew of truth affirm these men to be in covenant with god , to be his children who did obstinately oppose christ , being ignorant of the righteousness of god , and seeking to establish their own righteousness , were not subject to the righteousness of god , rom. . . but were broken off for unbelief , rom. . . it is true it is said , whose or of whom are the adoption and the covenants . but doth he say this of the israelites then living whose case he bewailed ? i conceive not , but of their ancestors . for the speeches were not true of them , that of them was christ according to the flesh , , or theirs the giving of the law , yet i deny not it was their honour and priviledge in some sort , that god vouchsafed these things to their ancestors and nation , and it did affect paul much , that the people which were so much dignified by god , should now be rejected . but were it that of those persons it were said , that to them pertained the covenants , and the adoption , yet were it not true which mr. bl. saith , that paul in express terms affirmed that they were in covenant , or were children of god. for if it be true that by the covenants were meant the tables of the covenant , as beza conceives , or the covenants of adoption , in respect of outward legall priviledges , which are onely there mentioned as proper to the jewes , the adoption and covenants might be said to pertain to them , and they neither in covenant , nor children of god evangelically . but of this text i have before spoken , sect. , &c. mt bl adds , wh●ch may be confirmed by abundant other texts of scripture ; ye are the children of the lord your god , deut. . . out of egypt have i called my son , hos. . . it is not meet to take the childrens bread and cast it unto doggs , mat. . : where all that were no● gentiles , all to whom christ was sent are called children : ye are the children of the prophets , and of the covenant which god made with your fathers , acts . . doth the covenant appertain to them , and they stiled the children of the covenant , and yet are they out of covenant ? are they children to whom the adoption pertains , and yet no children ? when mr. t. hath given any fair answer to these quaere's , especially the two last , we shall conceive some probability of truth in his gloss on the apostles words ; in the mean time we cannot but look upon it in full opposition and contradiction to that which the apostle expressly delivers . answ● . non● of all the passages call those brethren of paul whose case he bewaileth verse . children of god , his son , children , children of the prophets and of the covenant . . the speeches being of a people mixt of good and bad , and the speeches being indefinite , may be true if meant of some onely of those people : yea in the apostles sense they cannot be true of all that were not gen●iles , all to whom christ was sent , that they were the children of god. for many are termed by the prophet isai. . the sons of the sorceresse , the seed of the adultresse and the whore , by john baptist , matth. . . generation of vipers , by our lord christ matth. ● . children of hell . . sometimes the term of children is meant as the term righteous is , luke . . of one that is so in reputation though not in truth , as the children of the kingdom , mat. . . must be meant of them that were so in reputation , though not in truth : for had h●y been so in truth they should not be cast out into utter darkness . . by the children of the covenant acts . . is not meant that they were then in the evangelicall covenant as made to th●m : for at that time they had not repented , but were exhorted thereto , v. but they are called the children of the covenant , because they were the posteri●y of those fathers with whom first the covenant was made , as they are called children of the prophets , because th●y were the posteri●y of that people to whom the prophets were first raised and sent , as is shewed before sect. ● . out of which there is a fair answer to mr. blakes riddles without an oedipus , that first the covenants and adoption , rom. . . are not said to pertain to those israelites for whom paul mourned . v. . but to their ancestors . . if they did , yet not in mr. blakes sense , , but in the sense fore-given . . that those israelites for whom paul mourned , rom. . . are not stiled children of the covenant . acts . . nor though i● be true of those for whom paul mourned , is it any thing to mr. blakes purpose , but hath another meaning foregiven . and thus there is a sweet harmony be●ween my gloss and the apostles expressions . mr. bl. next gives his analysis of the apostles words , in which he grants v. . a numerous company by ishmael to be excluded ( who were abrahams seed after the flesh ) which evinceth what i contend for , that gods promise gen. ● . . was not made in any sort to ishmael though he were the child of a beleiver and circumcised , therefore that covenant is not made to every believers naturall child , nor was the reason of circumcising this or that person , taken from the persons interest in the covenant , for ishmael was circumcised though not in covenant . then mr. bl. adds , as then there was a distinction of seed , so also now , one member he had laid down before , viz. israelites according to the flesh rested in all those priviledges there reckoned up , v. , , these they pleaded , the apostle yelds them : and mr. t , ( according to the discovery of these times ) denies them , the second member he after falls upon ; the eternally beloved and chosen of god , and largely amplifies . in these abrahams seed may continue ; though the other be cast off , , to whom yet god hath continued ( in successive generations ) a god in covenant , and continued to them the priviledges of being his people , though now he was upon the rejection of them . answer . i should hardly have thought a sober minded man , much less a man reputed an ancient grave divine , would so slightly have handled such a scripture in which he saith is my triumphing argument , but that i meet with this passage defective in what was to be done , and made up of flirts , falshoods , impertinencies , 〈…〉 opposite to the apostle ▪ it is defective 〈…〉 main things , first , in applying the distinction of the apostle to the 〈◊〉 of the objection ▪ by shewing how the word fa●ls no● , if ●he one sort of seed of abraham be rejected . . in not shewing any invalidity in my deduction of my conclusion thence , that the seed of abraham to whom the promise gen. ● . . as evangelical is made , are onely the elect . his ●●irts are at me , 〈◊〉 denying the israelites according to the discovery of these times , what the apostle yeeld● . falshoods , that the israelites according to the flesh pleaded all those priviledges reckoned up , v , . for they were so far from pleading it as a priviledge , that christ came of them according to the flesh , that they abhorred and accursed him . . that i deny the priviledges which the apostle yeeldeth them . which also are meer impertinenc●es to the solution of the objection , and to the distinction of the apostle , who doth not at all in the expression af children of the flesh mention those priviledges , nor mentions children of the flesh , as importing an investiture into those priviledges , as mr. bl. seems to have conceived , but barely by that term notes their naturall descent from abraham , insomuch that ishmael is meant as a child of the flesh , who was no way vested in those priviledges v. , in stead of telling whether the eternally chosen and beloved of god were the seed meant gen. . . and ●o the word of god f●iled not , he onely tels us , in these the seed of abraham may continue though the other he cast off , which is impertinently and doubtfully exprest , as if there were not a certainty but onely a possibility of the seed of abraham continuing in the eternally beloved and chosen of god. it is in like manner impertinent to the business , to tell what god hath done in successive generations , when the objection is of the inconsiste●cy with his doings and his promises concerning the present generation . lastly , it is directly against the apostle , who opposeth the children of the promise to the cast off , to say , that he hath continued a god in covenant to them whom he hath cast off , and continueth ●o them the priviledges of his pepole though he was upon the rejecting of them . and it is a strange expr●ssion , when there is speech of rejection opposite to eternall love and choice of god , to say , god is now upon the rejection of them , which intimates a beginning of a rejection . but mr. bl. thinks to satisfie all by the words of gomarus , which having set down at large , he then saith , in which we have these three things , . mr. t. his objection wholly solved . . the apostle reconciled to himself . and . the doctrine of covenant holinesse from the apostle fully established , which when mr. t. hath well considered with that which was spoke before ( having the whole current of the scripture against him ) he will have little list to make this one scripture his asylum . to which i answer , first there are many things in the words of gomar●s liable to exception , as ● , that ●e saith , the jewes great priviledges mentioned 〈…〉 objected . but the thing that was objected was not those priviledges , but the word of god concerning israel and abrahams●●ed ●●ed . . that 〈…〉 . that th●se priviledges are attributed by the apostle to the unbelieving jewes . which is not true in the sense he 〈…〉 present unbelie●ing 〈…〉 〈◊〉 attributed by the apostle to the unbelieving jewes by vertue of their outward ●all , because salvation is revealed and offered to them under condition of obedience , and that offer sealed with circumcision ▪ wherein . he saith , the offer of salvation under condition of obedience , was sealed with circumcision but i had thought the thing pedobaptists would have sealed with circumcision ; had not been the offer of savation upon condition of obedience , but the covenant of god , gen. ▪ which is another thing than the offer of salvation which is by men indeed according to the covenant : but it is not the covenant , for that is gods act , and is presupposed to the other . besides , there are some promises at least in the covenant absolute , not upon condition , as the promise of regeneration , in respect of which the covenant cannot be conditional , and therefore the offer and the covenant are not to be confounded , nor do i think pedobaptists will like this , that that offer was sealed with circumcision . besides , there was no offer made to the jewes of salvation under condition of obedience . an offer is made by pre●ching , circumcision was on the eighth day : was there any that pre●ched at circumcision salvation under the condition of obedience to the circumcised , and then circumcised the child to seal that off●r ? nor did the iewes use circumcision to seal the off●r of s●lvation under condition of obedience to christ , but to bind them to keep the law of moses in expectation of righteousness , as appears from acts . . . , . gal. . . rom. , , &c. . nor do i see any truth in that which he saith , that those priviledges are attributed by the apostle to the unbelieving jewes by vertue of their outward call , because salvation is ●●●ealed and offered to them under condition of obedience , and that offer sealed with circumcision . for neither do church-priviledges belong to persons barely by re●son of an outward call , which is but an offer of salvation , no man is accounted a church-member , having right to the seal , as they term it , because salvation is offered without some consent , nor did those priviledges in any sort accrue to the iewes upon an outward call by which salvation was offered to them upon condition of obedience , the proceeding of christ from them , their having abraham , isaac , jacob , for their fathers , their having the law given them , &c. were not upon such an outward call , but gods respect to them , deut . . . it is not true that from thence all israelites are promiscuously called children of the covenant , as acts . . for it is true onely of them that were after the prophets as well as the covenant , sith they are called children of the prophets as well as of the covenant , and neither title is given to them because of the outward call alleaged , but because they were the posterity of those to whom the prophets were sent , and the covenant exhibited . . it is not true that the apostle affirmes that the unbelieving iewes are abrahamites and israelites ; not onely by reason of their birth after the flesh , but also by reason of acceptance of the covenants and promises : for neither is it true they did accept of the covenants and promises , sith they rejected christ to whom the promises were made , gal. . . nor doth the apostle say , they accepted of them , nor at all give that as a reason of their being abrahamites or israelites . yea , they were israelites or adamites antecedentally to some of those recited priviledges . . nor doth the apostle s●y , the fathers and adoption , and covenants , and promises , belong to all the israelites : yea he denies the promises to israel and abrahams seed to belong to every one that is of israel and abrahams seed , v. , , . . nor doth he make any such distinction of promise in respect of the efficacie of it , and collation belonging to some , and tender or offering of the covenant of grace : for neither doth the apostle at all mention the offer of the covenant of grace with condition of duty to be performed , nor doth he make the promise to belong to any who have not the efficacie of it : yea , to say the promise belongs to any , and yet he not have the efficacie , is to make the word of god fall , which the apostle disclaims as a thing by no means to be imputed to god , for thereby he should be charged of unfaithfulness in not keeping his promise . . neither doth the apostle make that answer which gomarus sets down , that though the priviledges v. , , belong to all the israelites , yet all are not therefore true children beca●se the priviledges are attributed to them by reason of their outward call , not by reason of their inward . for the objection was not thu● , to the jewes belong those priviledges , therefore they must be true children and heirs of salvation : but thus , gods promise or covenant was with abraham and his seed to be a god , therefore either god must be a god of the jewes who are abrahams seed , and they his people contrary to what your sorrow intimates , v. or else the word of god hath fallen , now gomarus sets down another objection than that which the apostle answers , and another than that which the apostle makes , as may appear by what i have said before . and for the three things mr blake gathers from gomarus , the first is not true , that my objection is wholy solved : for there is not a word in gomarus that answers this objection , every child of abraham was not a child of the promise gen , , , as the apostle determines , rom. , , . none were his seed to whom the promise as evangelical belongs , but the elect , therefore neither was the covenant gen. , . as evangelical , made to all the naturall children of abraham , not they circumcised because the covenant was made to them , nor is the covenant made with every beleiver by profession , nor hath he right to baptisme by vertue of that title , nor is the covenant made to every true beleivers infant or naturall child , there are none of them abrahams seed but the elect , and therefore all the plea of the paedobaptists from gen. . . to prove the right of every beleivers naturall child to baptism , is manifestly false , going on that supposition which the apostle plainly contradicts . the second thing is frivolous : for there was no contradiction in appearance in the apostles words , which need reconciliation , and therefore gomarus and mr blake have taken upon them an unnecessary task : but the seeming opposition to be reconciled , is between gods performing his word to abrahams seed to be a god to them , and his rejection of them from being his people , which the apostlee doth indeed reconcile righ●ly , but mr blake and gomarus are both mistaken in the thing as hath been d●monstrated . yet this i find , that gomarus with the other four professors of the united belgick provinces ( of whom gomarus is first ) set down the same that i conclude in their iudgement at the synod of dor● about the second article of the remonstrants , in which they say , that to the elect onely the promises are made , is professedly proved by paul rom. , , ▪ for onely the sons of promise are counted for the seed to whom that word of the everlasting possession of the inheritance appertains . so that i have five more suffrages together for me . and for the doctrine of covenant holiness , i confess the apostle establisheth this doctrine , that all the spirituall seed of abraham ▪ to wit , true beleivers , or elect persons , are holy federally as being those to whom god hath covenanted to be god : but mr blakes doctrine of covenant holiness , that gods covenant is to be a god to every beleiver and his seed , which is no other than his naturall seed ( for infants are no otherwayes his seed ) is so far from being established by the apostle , that he determines the contrary , denying that all abrahams children were children of the promise , and proving the elect onely to be his seed to whom the promise gen. . , as it was evangelicall was made by the state of ishmael and isaac , esau and jacob. and for this i am assured that i have the whole current of the scripture for me , and feare not to make this text my asylum , still having considered what mr blake produceth both here and before : the frivolousness of which i hope by divine assistance to shew in that which follows . there is somewhat which mr. blake adds in that chapter in answer to the allegation of matth. . . in which as i shewed before , john baptist rejects their claim to baptism , though abrahams naturall children without repentance and faith , and asserts the onely seed of abraham in covenant to be his spirituall . here to saith mr. blake , i answer , first ▪ when those that were no better then th●se make the same plea , john . ● . we be abrahams seed , and were never in bondage to any , christ yeilds it , v. . i know that ye are abrahams seed ; he allowes all that upon this account they can claim . and for pharisees he doth not barely yeld them to be church members , but also church teachers , matth. . . i reply , christs yeilds they were abrahams naturall seed , but denies them to be abrahams children , verse . that is , to whom the promise evangelicall belongs . the pharisees were not yeilded to be church-members in the christian church , nor were admitted by iohn baptist or christs disciples to baptisme without repentance and faith , nor were they teachers in the christian church , though among the jewes they are said to fit in moses chair . . saith mr. blake , iohn baptist doth not deny what christ yeilds , but lets them know that this place wil not serve to avoyd wrath whilst they live in impenitencie ; notwithstanding that this plea holds , they may perish , and yet gods covenant with abraham hold ; being able of stones to raise up children unto abraham , to make good what in covenant he had said . he no where sayes that they are not intituled to priviledges of ordinances , and thereby interessed in the prerogatives of gods visible people . what paul rom. . , . so largely yelds them , iohn baptist doth not deny them , which also now they had in visible possession . answer . neither iohn baptist , nor christ , nor paul , y●ilded them either to be in the covenant with abraham ( mr. blakes own words : notwithstanding this plea holds , &c. do plainly imply , that gods covenant did not hold with them , and that by them god should not make good what in covenant ●e had said ) or to be gods visible people , or to have right to the priviledge of baptism : but the contrary is declared by them . what mr. blake concludes the chapter with , ●s either but a dictate , that priviledg of ordinance ( meaning of baptism ) is a birth-inheritance , without either proof or shew of proof from prov. . . rom. . . so that i shall trouble the reader with no more of the fopperies of this chapter ▪ onely i desire the reader to observe , that whereas usually paedobaptists grant that by birth a grown man is not intituled to the initial seal without his own profession , mr. blake denies that iohn saith , the viperous pharisees and sadduces , and unbelieving jewes are not in●ituled to priviledges of ordinances and thereby interessed in the prerogatives of gods visible people . but mr. sidenham in his exercit. ch . . takes upon him to refell the plea from matth. . , . gathering that the pretence of being abrahams children , could not give them a right to baptisme ; and if john denied abrahams naturall seed on that account , much more would he the adopted children . but herein i conceive he doth not rightly set down his adversaries collection : for the adopted children of abraham i conceive are no other than beleivers , and surely mr sidenhams adversaries do not imagine that john denied th●m baptism . i for my part remember not my allegation of this text afore the writing of this book . but i find mr. william kay in his baptism without bason thus averring , . that matth. . , . is directly against infant-baptism , in that none but such as have faith and repentance , must think to be baptized . . that the pretence or consequence from circumcision , and being abrahams naturall children , to prove their title to baptism . i add to the covenant evangelicall gen. . . is also condemned , in that he allows them not to think within themselves , we have abraham to our father , which is not meant simply as if they might not in any sort think abraham to be their father ; for christ acknowledgeth it , john . and they might lawfully think that to be so which was so but in some respect , and the respects are intimated in the text , , in respect of baptism to which they come , but as par●us comment . in matth. . . john did not admit them as being unworthy . . in reference to the covenant ▪ gen. . which appears in that he adds , for i say unto you that god is able even of these stones to raise up children to abraham , which can be understood no otherwise than of spirituall children , who are children of the promise , rom. . . which the pharisees are not , . in respect of that which they imagined , that they should be s●cured from wrath to come , v. , in that they had abraham to th●ir father . now what saith mr. sidenham to this ? . that they were of age , and men degenerated from abrahams saith , that he did not refuse them because abraham was their father , or upon that account that abrahams seed had not right to the promise , b●t as onely pretending abraham to be their father , when they walkt contrary to the principles of abrahams faith . answer . 't is true , he did not refuse them because abraham was their father , nor as onely pretending abraham to be their father : nor doth he deny that it was true that they had abraham to their father in respect of naturall generation , but because though they had abraham to their father in respect of naturall generation , yet they did not believe as abraham , nor had right to the promise , which is enough to shew that the children of believers are to be refused and not admitted to baptism till they become believers themselves . . saith mr. sidenham , this is the same as to grown men professing faith , baptized , and then not admitted to the lords supper because carnall and apostate , it ●e said , you have cut off your own right by your contrary actings , which impeach not the truth of this position , that believers and their infants are in covenant , and ought to be judged so untill they manifest the contrary ; or that if they belieued themselves afterwards the promise should not be to them and their children : and that the text holds out no more than this , that when persons are grown up to years , and come to understanding , they must then stand on their right , and looke to make out personall qualifications for new ordinances . answer . , it is not the same : for such a speech should imply a former right now cut off , but john baptists speech disclaims any right they ever had to baptism . . john baptists speech proves , believers children as such are not in the covenant , for abrahams children were not , and that they ought not to be judged so until they manifest faith and repentance , for iohn baptist denied them to be abrahams children in covenant without them , and that the promise is not to their children because they believe ; for the promise was not to abrahams children by naturall generation though he were father of believers , and it proves that none of abrahams children have right to baptisme without fai●h and repentance , and consequently infants no more than grown men . but mr. sidenham yet thinkes to avoid the inference from this text , thus . . this was at the first institution of the ordinance , when baptism was was newly administred : now new institutions require grown persons , and actuall visible bilievers to be the first subjects of them : they could not baptize their children first , for then the parents would be neglected : and the bringing in of a new ordinance requires renewing of speciall acts in those which partake of it . now in the new testament god renewes the covenant of abraham , adds a new initiating seal to it : it was before entail'd in such a line which is cut off , i●'s now of the same nature , onely every one must come in his own person first , as abraham , and enter his own name , and then the promise to him and his seed . thus it was in the former place , where when the jewes came to be baptized , they were exhorted first to repent and be baptized themselves , then the promise is to you and your children . answer . all this scr●bling is at random , and wi●hout any proof , or answer to the objection : it is quite beside the objection , which was not barely from john baptists not baptizing their children , but from the reason of iohn baptists refusing to admit themselves to baptism . so that mr. sidenhams answer is onely to the consectary , infer'd from the conclusion deduced , not to the premises , no nor the first conclusion it self . for the argument is this , if abrahams natural children had not right to baptism without their own faith and repentance . but the antecedent is true , ergo the consequent , and consequently no● infants to be baptized . again , if abrahams children were not in the covenant without fai●h and repentance , neither are ours , for we have no more priviledge for our children then abrahams had : but the antecedent is true , ergo the consequent , and consequently a believers child is not in covenant because a believers child . yet once more , if persons circumcised and descendended from abraham , were not therefore admitted to baptism , then the same thing doth not intitle to baptism which did intitle to circum●ision , nor the command of circumcision a command concerning baptism . but the antecedent is true , ergo the consequent , and consequently infants are not to be baptized because they were to be circumcised . now mr sidenhams answer is to the allegation of john baptists not baptizing infants , not at all to any of these arguments drawn from his refusing the pharisees , though coming to his baptism , and conceiving they might , having abraham to their father . yet what mr. sidenham faith takes away the force of the argument if it had been thus made : those we are not to baptize whom john did not baptize : but iohn did not baptize infants , ergo. yea his answer strengthens the argument : for if johns baptism were at the first institution of baptism , and infants were not baptized , then neither are they to be now . for the first institution is the rule of observing it , as the lord christ himself urgeth concerning marriage , matth. . . and paul concerning the lords supper , cor. ● , . if baptism were a new institution , and did require actuall visible believers as the first subject of it , then it is not all one with circumcision , which admitted infants at the first institution , then such onely are to be baptiz●d except some further institution can be shewed , the institution for infan-circumcision is not sufficient for infant-baptism● , for that was in force as much at the first institution of baptism as after . it is false that they could not baptize their children first , that is , at the first institution , john baptist and the d●sciples of christ might have baptized infants at first as well as abraham circumcis●d them , yea ought to have done it , if paedobaptists say true , that the command of circumcision was the rule in force concerning baptism : nor need the parents be neglected , no not though they had baptized the children first in order of time ; yea the right of the child being contemporary with the paren●s faith , if they say true , they should have been baptized as soon as ever ●he parent was a believer , or the child in covenant . gods covenant with abraham was to him and his seed ; but his covenant was never made to every believer and his seed . in the new testament god renews the covenant wi●h abraham in respect of spirituall blessings , but for the promises domestick or civill ▪ he doth not renew it . he adds to the new covenant the s●al of christs death , whose blood confirmed it , and the initiating seal of his spirit , i know no other initiating seal added to it . it is not true that the ●n●w covenant , or covenent of grace was entail'd before to a certain line , though the covenant with abraham in respect of the civill domistick promises were entail'd to abrahams naturall posterity , and is now cut off : nor is the covenant every way of the same nature with abrahams covenant , nor upon a believers entering his name is the promise to him and his seed , nor is it acts . , . said , that upon their repenting and being baptized themselves , that the promise is to them and their children , but the being of the promise to them and their children , is urged as a consideration fit to move them to repent and be baptizd . he next sets down affirmations , . that no man must be baptized , or receive an ordinance by any fleshly prerogative . answer . then no infant is to be baptized by vertue of birth from a believer , for that is a fleshly prerogative , as the birth of christ was but a fleshly prerogative to david , the virgin mary , though there were an entail of a promise to them of this thing , so is the imagined birth-priviledge of believers infants , and yet there is no promise to retain it to a believers child . . that no person grown up to years of udderstanding , hath right to a sealing ordinance , but upon his own personall qualification . answer . then mr. blake did erre in intituling unbelieving jewes to priviledges of ordinances ▪ and thereby interessing them in the prerogatives of gods visible people . . there is no other right to an infant to baptism , than what a grown person hath . the third affirmation i grant , and the fourth too , if there were any such old priviledges of the promise to be conveyed to those which do really embrace the gospel and their seed . and this grant that those pharisees and sadduces had demonstrated themselves to be onely the children of the flesh , and not of the promise , and that they were excluded , shews the covenant as evangelical not to be made to a believers naturall seed , nor they thereby have right to baptism . sect . xxx . of the meaning of mr. m. his second conclusion , the ambiguitie of which is shewed . i now return to mr. m. whose second conclusion was thus expressed , ever since god gathered a distinct select number out of the world to be his kingdome , citie , houshold in opposition to the rest of the world , which is the kingdome , citie , houshold of satan , he would have the i●fants of all who are taken into covenant with him , to be accounted his , to belong to him , to his church and family , and not to the devils . this conclusion b●ing the main pillar upon which he settles infant-baptism , the antecedent of his euthymem i examined with great di●igence after the exact manner of scholastick writers in their disputes . which dealing of mine being indeed the one●y way to clear truth , and approved by a learned member of the assembly [ mr r.c. of p.c.o. ] and known to be one of the most accurate disputants in his time in oxford , yet mr m. pag. . of his defence , in a most inj●rious though frivolous way , traduce●h as an indirect artifice . to which some answer is given in my apologie sect . . pag ▪ i shall now view the reply he makes : first , he compares my dealing with an unnam'd person in cambridge , whose faculty was to make a clear text dark by his interpretation : whereas my way was the true and onely way to clear his meanin● by distinction , which is by logicians called the light of speech , and in all consideration of things to be first , as keckerm . log syst , part . . lib. . c. sp●aks : no● h●●h mr m. shewed in his defence , that any of those senses of his words which i set down , might not be conceived to be his meaning ; and therefore his complaint of me is ridiculous , and i shall have cause to censure him as a confused dict●t●r rather than an accurate disputer , who doth so indistinctly set down his main conclusion , that an adversary cannot determinely resolve what is the meaning , and so nei●her easily examine his proofs , nor know what to oppose . b●● he tells me he meant it of a visible priviledge , in facie ec●lesiae visibilis , yet he doth not tell what that visible priviledge is . he tells me , that they have their share in foedus externum ; but sets not down what share they have , nor what he means by foedus externum , in which they have share . and after he saith , god would have the children of them who by externall vocation and profession joyn to the church of god even while they are children , to enjoy the same priviledge wi●h them , which hath also ambiguity in it . for whereas there are many priviledges which the parents enjoy , as r. g. to be baptized , to be admitted to the lords supper , perhaps the father to be an elder teaching or ruling , or a deacon in the church , and by ( children ) may be meant persons of ten or twenty years old , and while ▪ they are children may be understood either during their infancy , or during their relation as children to their parents ( which is as long as they are men ) the words may be understood either that they have the same priviledge of admission to the lords supper or church-government , while they are infants , or that they have even in infancy the same priviledge to be baptized that the parent had upon his profession . which last if it were his meanng ( as most likely it was ) then his second conclusion being the same with his antecedent in his euthymem , his argument is an inapt tautology , infants of professors have the same priviledge with the parents to be baptized : ergo they are to be baptized , which is to prove the same by the same : yet this i must needs take to be his meaning , till he shew what other priviledge wi●h their parents children of vi-sible professors have in infancy . then he distinguisheth of the covenant of grace taken largely and strictly , which distinction is shewed before sect. , to have no footing in scripture , and to be inaptly used by mr m. he distinguisheth of jewes some abrahams seed according to the promise , some onely in the face of the visible church , and of being in christ by the mysticall union , and by visible and externall profession which distinction i mislike not though they be not of use here , sith they were not the terms used in his conclusion . he distinguisheth of seals belonging to the covenant , the seal of the spirit , and externall seals . but he nei●her shew●s where the externall seals ( as he calls them ) are tearmed seals of the covenant : nor was the term ( seal of the covenant ) at all used in his conclusion . yea to shew how unskilfully he handles the matter in all these distinctions , he doth not distinguish any of those terms that were in question , and were the predicate in his proposition , to wit , to be accounted gods , to belong to him , to his church and family , and not to the devils . and this piece of unskilfulness is in that which followeth . when therefore i say they are visibly to be reckoned to belong to the covenant with their parents , i mean , look what right a visible professor hath to be received and reputed to belong to the visible church , quà visi●le professor , that right hath his child so to be esteemed . but first , this speech here explained was not in his conclusion in his sermon , these words were not there , they are visibly to be reckoned to belong to the covenant with their parents , but this , they are to be accounted gods , to belong to him , to his church and family , and not to the devils . . were the sense here given the meaning of his conclusion , it would not be true . for if the right belong to the visible professors , quà visible professors , the same right cannot belong to the child except he be a visible professor . for what agrees to any quà talis , as such , agrees universaliter & reciproce , and therefore by this expression , every visible professor is to be received and esteemed , and every one to be so received and esteemed , is a visible professor , which cannot be said with any truth or shew of truth of the infant child of a believer . besides , if this conclusion were good , an infant should have right to be admitted to the lords supper sith the parent hath right thereto as a visible professor . but mr. m. makes a large discourse to prove , that to those to whom the spiritual part of the covenant belongs not , yet there are outward church-privileges which belong to them as they are visible professors . and to prove this he cites , gen. . . deut. . . gal. . . matth. , . acts . . rom. . . rom. . . . iohn . psal. . , . deut. . . iohn . . in answer to which i say , ● , that i grant this speech to be true . . i deny that the texts are pertinent to the purpose of mr. m. who intends this speech of gentile visible professors , whereas the texts are most of them of the privileges peculiar to the jewish people , namely , deut. . . matth. . . acts . . rom. . . rom. . . iohn . . psal. , . deut. . . iohn . . of the other two the former is of those before the flood , who whether they were called sons of god by descent , or profession , or some other way , it is uncertain . the other gal. . . is to be understood of being the sons of god really , and the term [ all ] is to be limited , as v. . by [ ye that are believers ] as the very words shew . for when he saith ye are all the sons of god by faith in christ iesus , it is plain this is meant onely of those who had faith in christ iesus . in all this discourse he doth not shew a text proving the privileges he mentions to belong to the infants of gentile visible professors . certainly some of them cannot be applied ; no , not to the infants of the jewish nation , as v. . that to them were committed the oracles of god , that to them god shewed his word , &c. nor doth mr m. distinctly tell us , which of these , ●or what other outward priviledge it is that belongs to the infants of visible professors , which is the onely thing pertinent to the present business . after this he asserts , that there are some rightly admitted by the church to visible membership who onely partake of the visible priviledges , and undertakes to prove it from rom. . but i have in the first p●rt of this review shewed mr ms , and others mistakes about the ingraffing , rom. . . and proved that it is meant of giving faith according ●o election . yet i grant it true which mr m. asserts in those word , and do take notice that pag. . he acknowledgeth that i grant in my examen pag. . a lawfulness of admitting men into a visible communion upon a visible profession , and that rightly even by a judgement of faith , though their inward holiness be unknown to us . and yet in the next pag. . he tells me , this mistake runs through your whole book , that none are to be reputed to have a visible right to the covenant of grace , but onily such as partake of the saving graces of it . but of this calumny more may be seen in my apologie , sect. . pag. . after all these expressions of his meaning in his conclusion he adds , pag. . this then was and is my meaning when i say , that infants of believers are confederates with their parents , that they have the same visible right to be reputed church-members , as their parents have by being visible professors , and are therefore to be admitted to all such externall priviledges as their infant-age is capable of ; and that the visible church is made up of such visible professors and their children ; that the invisible takes in neither all of the one , nor the other , but some of both . in answer whereto i say , . neither mr m. in his pretended explication keeps the terms of his second conclusion in which the words were not as mr. m. sets them down , that infants of believers are confederates with their parents . nor ( ) do any of the words explain that proposition . far would any that knowes the meaning of words , take this for a right paraphrase ? infants of believers are confederate with their parents , that is ; they have the same visible right , &c. is [ confederate ] all one with [ to have visible right , to be reputed church-members , to be admitted to externall church-priviledges , to be of the visible church ? ] yea would not a grammarian count such a paraphrase to be quite besides the words paraphrased , and the words paraphrased plainer than the paraphrase it self ? sure [ confederate ] is [ being in covenamt together ] and yet in all this paraphrase there is not so much as the term covenant mentioned , much lesse any explication in what covenant , and in what manner , by what act believing parents are in covenant together with their infants . . by this paraphrase we have propositions of one , like so many hydra's heads rising up in the place of one ▪ the first is , that infants of believers have the same visible right to be reputed church-members as their parents have by being visible professors . but this is manifestly false : for if the visible right be by being visible professors , infants cannot have the same visible right but by being visible professors , which to assert of them is all one as to say , the snow is black . the second , [ and are therefore to be admitted to all such externall church-priviledges as their infant age is capable of ] is ambiguous : for the capacity of their infant-age may be understood of capacity from the institution of god ; and so infants of gentile-believers are to be admitted to no externall priviledges sacramentall , for none are appointed for them : or naturall capacity in respect of receiving the sacrament , and then if by the sacrament be meant not onely the outward element , but also the use or signification by it , they have not a naturall capacity of receiving the sacrament of baptism : if onely of the elements they are capable also of the lords supper , as well as baptism . for they may eat and drink bread and wine as well as be washed by baptism . the third proposition is , that the visible church is made up of such visible professors and their children . this is indeed the conclusion of the assembly in their confession of faith , ch . . art . . and they cite to prove it , cor. . . acts . . ezek. . , . rom. . . the impertinency of which is shewed before in the first part of this review , and in that which goes before in this part of this review : of the impertinency of two other texts , to wit , gen. . . gen. . . somewhat is said also before , and more is intended to be decla-in the remainder of this review . the fourth proposition , that the invisible neither takes in all of the one nor the other , but some of both , i grant to be true . after all these mr m adds , i beseech you stand no longer doubtfull of my meaning : i mean of them as i mean of other visible professors , they are taken into covenant both wayes respectively , according as they are elect or not elect ; all of them are in covenant in respect of out-ward priviledges , the elect over & above the outward priviledges , are in covenant with respect to saving graces ; and the same is to be said of visible members both parents and infants under the n. t. in this point of being in covenant as was to be said of visible members in the former administration , whether jewes and their children , or proselytes and their children . answer . here again mr m. explains the term of infants being taken into covenant , which was not in his second conclusion ▪ however i note first , that in respect of saving grace , all the infants of believers are not taken into covenant , but onely the elect . . that when he asserts , that all the infants of visibls professors are taken into covenant in respect of outward priviledges . , he never shewes what those outward priviledges are . . nor any where ●lse that i know , instanceth in any but the initiall seal , which is now no other than baptism , and this then being the antecedent in his enthymeme , his argument is this , all infants of believers are taken into covenant in respect of the outward priviledge of baptism , ergo , they are to be baptized ; which is all one as to say , they are to be baptized , ergo they are to be baptized , unlesse he mean they are taken into covenant de facto , and so his assertion should be , they are already baptized ( wich is false ) and if his inference be , ergo they are to be baptized , his argument is , they are already baptized , ergo they are to be baptised , which were to assert anabaptism . . nor doth mr. m. tell where that covenant is that promiseth the outward church-priviledge of an initiaall seal , nor by whose act they are taken into●covenant , or who takes them into covenant . . if he understand it of the outward covenant , meaning thereby the outward administration , he useth , the word improperly by a trope , and so speaks obscurely in his main conclusion on which his whole dispute r●sts , which is contrary to logick rules , and ●ll right disputation . besides , he doth but trifle thus in his arguings , i●fants of believers are taken into covenan● , that is the outward covenant , that is the outward administration , that is ( now ) baptism , ergo they are to be baptized , which is to prove the same ●y the same . lastly , if that speech of his be true , that in respect of outward priviledges the same is to be said of visible members both parents and infants under the new testament , in this poynt of being in covenant , as was to be said of visible members in the former administration ▪ whether jewes and their children , or proselytes and their children , it is apparent to me that he makes the covenant now and then not onely the same for substance , but also in respect of administrations contrary to his first conclusion . for what are those outward priviledges in respect of which they are the same but outward administrations ? and if so , his speech is in my apprehension professed judaism opposite to the apostles determination in the synod acts . and yet mr. m. tells me he endevours in all this to speak as clearly as he can possibly , which makes me hopeless of any thing but confusedness in his writing , when after i had distinctly opened the various senses of his terms , yet he wilfully declines making answer in which of those senses i should take his words , and when he takes on him to explain his meaning , he takes on him to explain other terms then were in his conclusion , and yet his explications are as dark as his terms which he would explain , and in the upshot his second conclusion can have no other sense consistent with his own hypothesis but such as asserts judaism , or being cōceived to be the antecedent of his enthymeme , is the same with the conclusion of it , which is meerly to trifle , proving the same by the same : which course how unfit it is for him who is to dispute , i leave it to them to judge who know what belongs to scolastick exercise . mr. m. next chargeth me with holding no more promises for believers children in reference to the covenant , then to the children of turks . and yet page . he doth in these words maintain the same which i do . i joyn with you that it is an error to say , that all infants of believers indefinitely are under the saving graces of the covenant , for although i find abundance of promises in the scripture of gods giving saving graces unto the posterity of his people , and that experience teacheth us , that god uses to continue the church in their posterity , and that gods election lies more among their seed then others , yet neither to iew nor gentile was the covenant so made at any time , that the spirituall part and grace of the covenant should be conferred upon them all , which is directly to contradict the usuall plea of pedobaptists , that the covenant of grace is made to every believer and his seed , and particularly the words of the directory , the p●omise is made to believers and their seed ▪ seeing the covenant of grace is made to none but those on whom the spirituall part is conferred , nor can ( without wresting the words from the plain meaning according to the grammar sense ) the spech of the directory be understood of any other promise than saving grace . mr. m. and with him mr. g. vindic. paedob , pag. . charge me , that in my judgement believers children are not actually belonging to the covenant or kingdom of god , but onely in possibility ; that they belong to the kingdome of the devil actually , which calumnies are re●u●ed in my apologie , sect. . next , he speaks thus to me : but say you , to make them actually members of the visible church , is to overthrow the definitions of the visible church , which protestant writers use to give , because they must be all christians by profession . i reply , it overthrowes it not at all , for they all include the infants of such professors , as the visible church among the iewes did include their infants male ( and female too , lest you say that circumcision made them members . ) answer . though protestant divines do hold many of them , that infants belong to the visile church , yet they put them not in their definitions . there are many definitions cited by me in the first part of this review sect. . in which infants are not included , not in that definition of the church ( visible ) which baxter plain scripture proofe , page saith , certainly all divines are agreed , that it is a society of persons separated from the world to god , or called out of the world , &c , not in that of dr. featly dipper dipped , pag. . a true particular visible church is a particular congregation of men professing the true faith , known by the two markes above mentioned , the sincere preaching of the word , and the due administration of the sacraments . norton resp. ad appollon ▪ pag. . immota thesis . idem illud in professione constituit eccl●si●m visibilem , quod internâ suâ naturâ constituit ecclesiam mysticam : i. e. fides usque adeo luculenta est haec veritas ut vel invito bellarmino lib. de eccles ▪ milit . etiam à praecipuorum inter pontificos calamis excidisse videatur . the assembly answer to the reasons of the seven dissenting brethren , pag. . precog . the whole church of christ is but one made up of the collection and aggregation of all who are called by the preaching of the word to professe the faith of christ. mr. m. himself in his sermon at the spittle april ▪ . pag. . ▪ secondly , that part of the church which is upon earth in regard that the very life and being of it , and of all the members of it , lye in internall graces , which cannot be seen , in that respect the church of christ is called an invisible church : but now as the said church and members doe make a profession of their faith and obedience sensibly to the eyes and ears of others , in that respect it is called a visible church : but the visible is not one church and the invisible another , but meerly the same church under severall denominations , the one from their constituting graces , the other from the external profession of them . the church visible of the jewes consisted of the whole nation , and was visible otherwise than the christian , and therefore the definition of the christian church visible is different from that of the jewish church visible , and infants included in the definition of the one are not included in the definition of the other . mr. m. saith , i add also baptisme now ( as well as circumcision of old ) is a re● all though implicite profession of the christian faith . answer . baptism of it self ( i mean dipping in water ) is no reall explicite or implicite profession of faith , but onely when it is done with consent of the baptized to that end : otherwise the indians driven into the water by the spaniards against their wills , should be prof●ssors of the christian faith . the like may be said of circumcision . mr m omitting my next reason , [ that to make infants [ visible church-members , is to make a member of the visible church , to whom the note of a member of the visible church doth not agree ] saith thus to me : but say you , infants are onely passive , and do nothing whereby they may be denominated visible christians . i answer , even as much as the infants of the iewes could do of old , who yet in their dayes were visible members . i reply , it is so ; yet that which made a visible church member in the jewish church , is not enough to make a visible church member in the christian church , which consists not of a whole nation known by circumcision , genealogies , outward policy , national meetings , family dwelling , &c. but of so many persons as are called out of the world by the preaching of the word to professe the faith of christ. mr. m. adds , yea ( say you ) further it will follow , that there may be a v●sible church which consists onely of infants of believers . i answer , no more now than in the time of the iewish church ; it 's possible , but very im●roble , that all the men and women should die and leave onely infants behind them , and it 's far more probable that a church in the anabaptists way may consist onely of hypocrites . answer . it is somewhat more possible , or more probable , there should be onely infants left in a church of a house , town , or village ; than in the church which consists of a numerous nation , as the iewish church did : nor is it unlikely ; ●uch things h●ve happened in sweeping plagues . and if it be farre more probable that a church in the anabaptists way may consist onely of hypocrites , the s●me with more probability may be said of a church gathered in the pedob●●pists way , in which there is of necessi●y so much ignorance in matters of religion , all being admitted church-members afore they know or can know anything of christ. jam sumus ergo pares . but if it be possible , as it is granted , that a church visible of christians may consist only of infants , it wil follow that there may be a visible church of christians in which there is no one professor of the faith , contrary ro the defini●ion of a visible church , that it is a company of professors of faith , and they shal be visible church-members , who neither by themselves or any for them , do any thing which is apparent to the understanding by the meditation of sense , whereby christianity is expressed . the case is not the same of the iewish church and the christian ; for the christian church is any company though but of two or three gathered together in christs name , matth. . . but the iewish church was the whole congregation of israel known otherwise , as h●th been said , than the christian. next , mr m. against these words of mine [ it is also true that we are not to account infants [ of believers ] ( which he omits in repetition ) to belong to god [ before god ] ( which he likewise omits in repetition ) in respect of election [ from eternity ] ( omitted by him ) or promise of grace [ in christ ] ( omitted also ) of present estate of in-being in christ , or future estate by any act of science , or faith without a particular relation : for there is no generall declaration of god , that the infants of present believers indefinitely all or some either are elected to life , or are in the covenant of grace in christ , either in respect of present in-being or future estate , excepts two things - . this makes nothing against that visible church-membership be pleads for . answer . if that visible church-membership he pleads for , arise from the covenant of grace in christ ( as hitherto hath been the plea ) nor can they shew any other ) then they are not visible church-members who have not an estate in that covenant which is the cause of it : for take away the cause and ●he effect ceaseth , and then the visible church-membership of existing infants of present believers is overthrown , sith the cause of it appears not . and if they are not to be accounted by act of faith to belong to god in respect of promise of grace in christ , and the minister is to dispense the seals by a judgment of faith , as mr m. holds in his sermon , pag. , in his defence , pag. . then there being no act of faith concerning existing infants of present believers , they are not to be baptized . . saith mr. m. i retort rhe argument upon your self , and dare boldly affirm , that by this argument no visible church , or all the visible professors of any church , are to be accounted to belong to god either in respect of election from eternity , or promise of grace , or present state of in-being in christ , &c. w●thout a paricular revelation , because there is no declaration of god , that present visible professors are indefinitely all or some either elected to life , or are in the covenant of grace in christ either in respect of present in-being or future estate : look by what distinction you will answer this : for visible professors who are grown men , the same will serve for infants of believers . answ. if mr. m. had put in these words of mine , by any act or science of faith , i should have granted the same might be said of visible professors grown men , which i had said of infants . but this no whit hur●s our tene●t or practice who do not baptize grown persons because by no act of faith , or science we know them to be in the covenant of grace in christ , but because by an act of faith we know christ hath appointed disciples appearing such by heir profession of faith , to be baptized by us , and by an act of science or experience by sense , we know them to be such whom we baptize . concerning whom though we cannot account them elect and in the covenant by an act of science , or faith without a particular revelation , yet we may by an act of certain knowledge mixt of science and prudence from sense of their visible profession know them to be serious , sober , understanding and free professors of christianity , and by an act of faith from christs institution of bapttizing professing disciples , know we ought to baptize them , and upon their profession out of charity , which believeth all things , hopeth all things , cor. . . judge them by an act of opinion elect , and in the covenant of grace in christ. none of all which can be said of existing infants of present believrs , and therfore we ought to pass no judgement on them in this thing , but suspend our judgmen●t , and act of baptizing concerning our selves with that comfortable hope which we have from indefinite promises . next mr m. takes upon him to excuse some speeches of mr. cottons , against which i excepted in my examen , pag ▪ . ● . one was , that the covenant of grace is given to every godly man in his seed . concerning which mr m. tels me , that he takes m. cottons meaning to be , that look as abraham , isaac , and jacob , and the other godly jewes were to their seed in respect of the covenant , that is every godly man to his seed now , except onely in such things wherein these patriarks were of christ , in all other things wherein god promised to be the god of them and types their seed , godly parents may plead it as much for their seed now as , they could then , and what ever in●onveniences or absurdity you can seem to fasten upon mr. cotton , will equally reach to them also . as for example ▪ suppose an israelite should plead this promise for his seed , you 'l demand if he plead it to his seed universally , that 's false , add so of the rest of your inferences , look what satisfying answer an israelite would give you the same would mr. cotton give , and as satisfyingly . answ. mr ms paraphrase of mr. cottons words , is such as no rule of crammar will warrant , the words being so expresse , it ( the covenant of grace ) was given to christ , and in christ to every godly man , gen. . . and in every godly man to his seed : where the same covenant of grace , not an uncertain promise of any thing whatsoever , is said to be given to every godly mans seed , which is said to be given to christ , and to every godly man , and in every godly man , using the same pronounce which was used concerning christ : no● is it said , that it might be pleaded by every godly man , but it was given , which in plain construction is mean● of the same grant which was made to christ , and to a godly man. . nor perhaps would mr cotton have owned this explication of his words . . if he had , they had not been true , for every ▪ godly gentile now cannot plead the same for his seed now , which abraham , isaac and jacob , and some other is●aelites could then , ( because god made such peculiar promises to them , particularly to abraham , g●n . , , , , . in respect of their seed ) ●s he hath made to any be●ieving genti●e now . for much of that he promised then was out of respect , to the future comming of christ from them , which being accomplished , the reason of those promises , and of circumcision and other rites ceaseth . and yet the promises were not then so universally to them and their seed , but that god took himself not ingaged to be the god of many of them , nor ar● gentile-believers seed now abrahams seed till they believe as he did , and therfore in explic●tion of mr. m. there can be no good sa●i●faction so as to verifie mr cottons words . the other speech of mr cotton , that god will have some of every god●y mans seed stand before him for ever , he confesseth is not to be justified , if it be meant in reference to election and everlasting life , tha● every godly man shall have some of his seed infallibly saved , nor doth he think mr cotton meant so : but for his part he thinks he only added to that promise made to jonadabs children , jerem . that god would always beare a mercifull respect unto the posterity of his servants , according to that promise , exo. . . i wil shew mercy to thousands of them that love me and keep my commandements . and that being his scope ( as he thinks it was ) i need not to have kept such a stir about it . ans. the words in the plainest sense they bare , had that sense which mr. m. counts unjustifiable , nor can they be construed in such an indefinite manner as mr. m. conceives , the good promised being no lesse than standing before god for ever : which how ever it allude to ionadabs promise , yet is not to be understood in the sense made to him , nor in any other sense now than that of eternall salvation , that i know , and by his declaration should belong to some of every godly mans seed determinately . so that what ever his scope were , his words were likely to be a stumbling-block to many who are too much taken with his dictates , and the place in which i examined them leading me to it , and both mr. cottons letter to me , acquainting me with his dialogue of the grounds of infant-baptism , of which the supposed interest in the covenant is the chief , and the desire i have to make learned men more cautelous in venting such passages as may occasion error , knowing how luthers unwary speeches were the seed of antinomianism , and other learned mens writings have misled , most divines adhering pertinaciously to leading men , provoking me thereto , i did and still do think it was necessary i should say what i said about those speeches . mr. m. tells me , pag , , you doe but lose time and waste paper in endeavouring to confute what was never asserted by me , viz. that the covenant of saving grace is made to believers and their naturall seede that the infants of believers are so within the covenant of grace as to be elected , and to have all the spirituall privileges of the covenant belong to them . but this he suspects to fasten on him against my own light : from which i cleared my self , apolog. sect. . he then interprets his own words of infants being within the covenant of grace as visible professors are quà visible ( which speech is shewed false before ) they are to be accounted to belong to god as well as their parents , viz. by a visible profession they are made free according to abrahams copy , viz. in a visible priviledge for their posterity but he leaves out those passages which i alledged , saying , the covenant of s●lvation is com● to his hous , that in the first cōclusion it 's said , the covenant is the same , which he means of saving graces , and then saith , and children belong to it , which can demonstrate no other than the same covenant , that is made a part of the gospel preached to abraham . to which i might add , that in his sermon , page . he saith the text not onely shewing that they are within the covenant , but also that a right to baptism is the consequence of being within the covenant , which covenant is made by him the covenant of salvation , pag. and in his defence pag. . we are enquiring after the salvation of them to whom a promise of salvation is made . , and hence infers the salvation of infants ; of believers dying in infancy , which were frivolous if he did not conceive , gen. . . to promise salvation to believers infants : and page . counts it absurd that in a covenant of grace temporall blessings should be ratified by the seal of it . so that either m. m. heeded not his own speeches , or confounded things much different , or said and unsaid the same thing , if that were not his meaning which i conceived . and i must still professe that his setting down first distinctly the identity of the covenant consisting in saving graces , and then affirming infants of believers to belong to it , and not understanding it of the same covenant , hath the shew of juggling tending to deceive not to instruct the reader . there are more speeches produced by me to shew , that if he did speak consonantly to other writers and sayings , he meant as i interpreted his words , two of which he chuseth to vindicate , one the proposition of the directory ; ( the promise is made to belivers and their seed , ) which how frivolously it is interpreted by mr. g. and mr. m. is shewd in my apol. sect. . in my addition to my apol. to mr. bailee , sect. . to which i add , that in the assemblies confession of faith it is said , ch . . art that in the covenant of grace god promiseth to give unto all those that are ordained unto life , his holy spirit , ch . . art . . the principall acts of saving faith are , accepting , receiving , and resting upon christ alone for justification , sanctification , and eternall life , by vertue of the covenant of grace , ch . . art . . the perseverance of the saints depends upon the nature of the covenant of grace . the other speech he would clear , is thus by me expressed ▪ baptism seals onely the promise of saving grace , remission of sins , &c. so in the directory of baptism , that it is the seal of the covenant of grace , of our ingrafting into christ , and of our union with him , of remission of sins , regeneration , adoption , and life eternall : and after , and that the seed and posterity of the faithfull born within the church have by their birth interest in the covenant , and right to the seal of it in the rules of direction in the ordinance octob. . . that the sacraments are seals of the covenant of grace in the blood of christ. and therefore if there be not a promise of saving grace to infants , in vain are they baptized , the seal is put to a blank , as some use to speak . to this saith mr. m. i utterly deny your consequence , that unlesse there be absolute promises of saving grace to infants , the seal is set to a blank : for give me leave but to put the same case ; first for the ●nfants of the jewes , was the seal put to a blank with them , or had they all promises of saving graces ? secondly , let me put the same case in grown men , who make an external visible profession , and thereupon are admit●ed to baptism , can any man say , that all the saving graces of the covenant , or the spirituall part of it is promised to all visible professors ? is it not abundantly known , that in all ages even in the best times , even in the apostles times multitudes were baptized , to whom god yet never gave saving graces , and therefore never promised them ? for had he made a promise , he would have performed it . answer . to the words in my examen ( the seal is put to a blank ) was added , as some speak , which i did to intimate that it was paedobaptists phraseology , not mine , and that they counted this an absurdity , not that i did so . so that my consequence was , it being counted frequently in their writings an absurdity that the seal should be put to a blank , that is , that baptism should be administred to them that had not the promise , and it seals onely the promise of saving grace , if the promise of saving grace belong not to the infants baptized , then in vain are they baptized according to paedobaptists hypothesis , for the seal of the promise is put to them to whom it is confessed the promise is not made . mr. m himselfe in his sermon , pag. . infants are capable of receiving the holy ghost , of union with christ , of adoption , of forgivenesse of sins , of regeneration , of everlasting life , all which things are signified and sealed in the sacrament of baptisme . the covenant then sealed is the covenant of these saving graces , which if it belong not to infants baptized , but another outward covenant , in vain are they baptized , for they have not the covenant which baptisme seals . and that this is the sense of other writers , appeares by the words of ampsing . diolog . eontra anabapt . p. . dico ergo : omnibus fidelibus baptismum competere cum ipsorum semine tam mulieribus quam viris tam infantibus quam adulti● : horum omnium enim se deum fore declarat . deus , his remissionem peccatorum in christi sanguine ; his mentis renovatio●ē per spiritum sanctum ; his vitā aeternam promittit ac regnum coelorum : quare quoque ipsis obsignabitur hac dei gratia . ames . bellarm. enervat . tom . . l. . c. . ch . . protest . circu●cisio à primâ su● institutione habuit promissionem illam annexam quâ nulla est major : ero deus tuus & seminis tui post te . gen. . quam christus ita interpretatur , matth. . ut vitam aeternam illa doceat contineri , & paulus ephes. . . ostendit spem vivam ex illâ pendere . i wil add the words of calvin , epist. . which are in stead of many othe●s , both because of the great eminency of the man , being accounted almost an oracle by many of my antagonists , and because they are full to the present purpose : they are thus in english. this principle is still to be held , that baptism is not conferred on infants that they may be made sons and heirs of god : but because they are already with god reckoned in that place and degree ; he grace of adoption is sealed in their flesh otherwise the anabaptists should rightly keep them from baptism : for unlesse there should agree to them the truth of the outward sign , it would be a meer profanation to call them to the participation of the sign it selfe . moreover , if any deny baptism to them , our answer is ready , that they are already of the flock of christ , and of the family of god , because the covenant of salvation which god maketh with believers , is common also to the sons , as also the words sound , i will be thy god and of thy seed after thee , gen . . unlesse this promse went before , by which god adopteth the children of believers not yet born ▪ it is certain baptism is ill bestowed on them . which words do plainly express the covenant of salvation which is made by god with believers , is common to the sons , that so it is meant , gen. . , that with god they are afore baptism reckoned in the place and degree of sons and heirs of god , who adopteth them not yet born , that unlesse the truth of the outward sign ( that is according to mr. ms. adoption , regeneration , remission of sins , &c. ) did agree to them , it were profanation to call infants of believers to the participation of the sign , and anabaptists should rightly keep them from baptism . therefore calvin thought the covenant of saving grace gen. . . made by god to believers infan●s ( which mr. m. disclaism ) and otherwise infant-baptism is profanation , and it is rightly opposed . yea , the shifts that are used to free their doctrine of infants interest in the covenant , and the sealing of it from the difficulty of verefying it against the exceptions before alledged , do all seem to suppose the covenant in which infants have interest , is the covenant of saving grace . as when mr. baxters plain scripture , &c. pag. . will have baptisme seal onely the conditionall promise mr. philips vind . pag. . expresseth the sealing by offering . mr. davenport's confess . of faith , p . maketh the benefits of the covenant not to be offered in the sacraments , but to be exhibited onely to true believers . mr. cotton's grounds of bapt. pag. , the covenant of grace doth not give them saving grace at all , but onely offereth it , and seals what it offereth . dr homes , that the administration of the covenant of grace , belongs to believers children though not the efficacie . dr. twisse , that infants are in the covenant of grace in the judgement of charity , and that baptism seals regeneration , &c. not conferred , but to be conferred . dr. th goodwin , that they are to be judged in the covenant of grace by parcels though not all in the lump , yet all make the promise , i will be the god of thy seed , applied to infants of believers● contain the promise of saving grace , and therefore i had great reason to conceive mr. m. so meant his second conclusion . as for the two cases he puts , i neither grant all the infants of the jewes , nor visible christian professors adult had all saving graces who were circumcised or rightly baptized by the apostles , nor do i say they were sealed with the seal of the covenant , it 's the pedobaptists expression not mine , except where i use the term to express their mind ▪ nor do i count it an absurdity to say the seal was and is to be put to a blank , that is , that those should be baptized to whom the promise of saving grace is not made , when i speak after mine own mind . but in the place of my examen pag. . in which i alleged that as an absurdity , that the seal should be put to a blank , it was not because i took it so to be , but because the paedobaptists so count it , as mr. calvins words before recited shew . sect . xxxi , of the novelty and vanity of mr. marshals and others doctrine about sacraments , being seals of the covenant , and the severall sealings of them . but mr. m. desires me a little to consider the nature of a sacrament in what sense it is a seal , and he te●s me , that in every sacrament the truth of the covenant in it self , and all the promises of it are sealed to be yea and amen ; iesus christ became a minister of the circumcision to confirm the promises made unto the fathers , and so to every one who is admitted to partake of baptism according to the rule which god hath given to his church to administer the sacrament , there is sealed the truth of all the promises of the gospel , that they are all true in christ , and that whoever partakes of christ , shall partake of all these saving promises , this is sealed absolutely in bapiism . answer . mr m. would have me to consider the nature of a sacrament , in what sense it is a seal , and i am very willing so to do , as knowing that as mr. m. imagines that i am mislead for want of considering thereof , so i am sure mr. m. and other paedobaptists are both mistaken , and do abuse others in this point , by reason of their inconsideratenass , or superficial consideration of this thing . the word sacrament is a latin word in profane authors signifying an oath made by a souldier to his generall ; in ecclesiastick writers it is applied to all the mysteries of religion , and it is used most by the african writers , tertullian , augustine &c. as the word mystery is by the greeks , chrysostome cyril , &c. chamier paustrat . cath tom , . l. . c. . sect. . saepe jam dictum latissimam fuisse olim saramenti significationem : serò tandem contractam in angustos istos terminos quos hodie vix migrat : quod diligenter attendendum . certè sacramenti definitionem nullam est invenire ante augustinum , qui suo exemplo posteris praiit , deinde augustini definitione , &c. whence i inferre , that as the term sacrament , so the definition of a sacrament is but a novelty , and possibly the great contentions about the number of the sacraments , some making seven , some three , most protestants two onely , would be lessened , if moderate learned men had the handling of it . i confesse that sundry texts of scripture do plainly shew the two rites of baptism and the lords supper to be the chief rites of the church , as cor. , , , , . & , . eph. , . mark . . cor. . , . & . , &c. yet that the scripture either calls these sacraments , or sets down one generall nature of them in a certain definition of them , cannot be demonstrated . they are certain rites appointed for certain vses according to certain rules ; but such a nature or essence genericall as distinguisheth them from all other rites , as laying on of hands , &c. denied to be sacraments i find not in scripture . divines elder and later , have framed their definitions according to their own conceits . after augustines time that definition was commonly received in schools , that a sacrament is a visible sign of an invisible grace : yet the ancients did rent such speeches as occasioned the opinion commonly received in schools afore the reformation by luther and zuinglius , that they did conferre gratiam ex opere operato , give grace by the ●a●e outward use of them . zuinglius denying them to be any more than signs , the lutherans denying that they give grace by the bare use of them without the concurrence of faith , to which the lutherans ascribe all the efficacie ; the papists object the baptizing of infants who did not believe , used by them all : whereupon the opposers of infant-baptisme , falsly termed anabaptists , proved infant-baptism inconsistent with their own doctrine . i wil set down mr. bedfords words in his epistle to mr. baxter , printed in the friendly accommodation between them , pag. . the anabaptists took occasion from that position of luther , no faith no baptism . coetaneous with him was zuinglius and others , who to overthrow the reall presence , insisted upon it ●hat sacraments were but signs for representation ; and when that doctrin was once broached ▪ the anabaptists could easily make their advantage of it . to answer whom the lutherans maintain , that by baptism , or before they are made believers , as the words of the lutherans in the conference at mont●elgard , cited by me in my examen part . sect . , p. . shew , osiander epist. histor. eccl. cent. . l. . c. . pag· . cum autem baptismus ●it lavacrum regenerationis ( teste paulo ) sentimus nos deum dare fidem infantibus vel ante baptismum ad preces parentum & ecclesiae , vel in ipso actu baptismi & regenerationis , quae si●e fide esse non potest . and to this opinion did many in england warp , when the face of the church of england became ceremonious , and tended to symbolizing with the lutheran protestants , or with the more moderate not jesuited papists in the time of the late prelates potency , as may be seen by the passages cited by me in examen part . ● ▪ sect. . pag. . and by the printed writings of dr. davenant , dr. ward , mr , thomas bedford , which have been refuted by mr. gataker and mr. baxter , nor is it likely but still the same mind is in mr. bedford , notwithstanding the late synectism , or rather clawing of one another which hath been between him and mr. baxter in their painted frindly accommodation . in which mr. cranfords epistle hath these words to mr. bedford , brother you know my mind , that i conceive the ground of anabaptisme to have been the erroneus doctrine , de nudis signis , as is ●leare in the ecclesiasticall stories of old , and most arguings of anabaptists . which shewes they fear infants baptim will not be maintained without this doctrine of giving by baptism to the elect at least initiall seminall regerating grace reall or relative . but mr. baxter thinks otherrwise , that that doctrine will increase anabaptism , leaving them to their severall fancies , i proceed . mr. calvin , and w●th him many others ▪ take another course to avoyd extreams , neither making baptism a naked sign , which is imputed to zuinglius , nor ascribing to it the giving of grace by the work wrought , with the papists , nor holding such initiall seminall regeneration or seed of faith at baptism , given at least to the elect , as lutherans and others ( which perhaps will be found as much as the papists ascribe to it ) but ascribing to baptism and the lords supper , not onely signification , but also obsignation , and so making this the generall nature of sacraments to be seals of the covenant of grace , which they say is made to infants of believers , though they want not faith at or before baptism ; and from this promise they desire a title to the baptism of infants of believers , as is shewed out of calvin above . but . there is much ambiguity in their determinations about the covenant of grace what it is , and what it contains , and in what sense it belongs ●o infants of believers as such , and what believers infants it belongs ●o , and how baptism seals it . so that in their speeches there is much equivocation , and frequent saying and unsaying , as chiefly about the promise , gen. . . i will be thy god and the god of thy seed after thee : which is one way expounded in their commentaries on rom. . , , and elsewhere , as meant of saving graces , and applied onely to the elect and true believers in their disputes against arminius : but elsewhere expounded of every gentile visible professor of faith in christ , and his naturall seed , as if thereby the outward privileges of visible church membership , and initiall seal were promised and applied to all infants of believers , whether elect or not in their disputes against anabaptists , as may be perceived by this and other writings published by me . . the objection still holds , how can baptism seal to an infant ? every seal is a sign , though every sign be not a seal ; but baptism is no sign to an infant , sith it signifies nothing to it at the time of baptism , because the infant hath not understanding to perceive the use of it ; and when the infant comes to understanding there 's no print of baptism to represent anything to the person baptized some years before . if the person know anything of it , it is by report , which is no visible sign , but audible to the baptized . . a a seal is an assuring sign to the eye of what is promised to the eare : but baptism assures nothing to an infant without faith , therefore it seals nothing without faith ▪ and thus in mr perkins his exposition of the fifth principle of his catechism . heretofore we were taught , a sacrament is a sign to represent , a seal to confirm , an instrument to convey christ and all his benefits to them that do believe in him . faith therefore was a necessary prerequisite in the person to whom the sacrament was a seal of the covenant of grace , which infants wanting it is no seal to them , and consequently no sacrament , as mr. gataker argues in another case , discep . de bapt . inf . vi & effic . pag. . ●f it be a seal of the essence of a sacrament . the main if not the onely texts whence they ●etch this doctrine of making the nature of sacraments to be seals of the covenant of grace ▪ are rom. . . gen. . , , . in the former it is said , abraham received the sign of circumcision a seal of the righteousness of faith which he had yet being uncircumcised ; and in the other circumcision is termed the covenant ▪ and token of the covenant . whence [ the seal of the covenant of grace ] is either made the definition of a sacrament in generall , or at least the genus of it , and in the writings of paedobaptists ●●●ls of the covenant and sacraments are used as terms of the same signification . i● the confession of faith of the assembly , chap. . art . . sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace , and they cite but two texts for it , rom. . . gen. . . yea , in the ordinance of parliament octob. ▪ . about rules concerning examining persons to be admited to the lords supper , this is one principle which every one who is admitted to the lords supper , is required to give account of , that sacraments are seals of the covenant of grace in the blood of christ : so that in effect it is made as one of the first credenda , or articles of faith necessary for all to know . on the contrary , i have seen a little book in english of one mr. jackson , in which are nineteen arguments to prove circumcision no seal of the covenant of grace . for my part , as i express my self in my examen , pag. . i should not st●ck to yeild that the rites of the new testament called sacraments , may be called seals of the covenant of grace , being ●ightly expounded in this sense , that they sh●w forth christs death , and thereby to the true believer , the benefits of the covenant of grace are assured : yet considering how writers make this the very genus in the definition of them , and of their nature and essence , and thence inferre duties and draw arguments to determine cases of conscience about the use of sacraments as they are called , and make it a necessary point to be acknowledged by all , i reject it , and except against this use of that term for these reasons . first , because this use of that term is not in or from the holy scripture , that term seal of the covenant of grace , is not expressly in the holy scripture , i suppose will not be denied : if it be , let it be shewed where . though the term seal , and the true token of the covenant , be ascribed to circumcision , rom. . gen. . . yet is not the term seal of the covenant of grace , applied to any sacrament , no not to circumcision . nor is the term seal of the righteousness of faith , rom. . . of the same sense with the term seal of the covenant of grace . for the seale of the covenant of grace in the ordinary acception , is as much as an assuring sign or mean of the grace of the covenant to be bestowed , rom. . . it is said , that abraham received the sign of circumcision , a seal of the righteousness of faith , which he had being yet uncircumcised , and therefore it was rather a seal of certification of what he had , than a prediction or promise what he should have . mr. baxter against mr. blake , pag. . saith truly , that circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith , even a justifying faith already in being , rom. . , . the new england elders in their answer to the third and fourth of the nine positions , pag. . say truly thus , the scope of the apostle in that place , rom. , is not to def●ne a sacrament , nor to shew what is the adequate subject of the sacrament , but to prove by the example of abraham that a sinner is justified before god , not by works but by faith ( thus ) as abraham the father of the faitfull was justified before god , so must his seed be , that in all believers whether iewes or gentiles , circumcised or uncircumcised , for therefore abraham received circumcision which belonged to the iewes , to confirm the righteousness which he had before , even whilst he was uncircumcised , that he might be the father of both . and to speak truth , to conceive that circumcision there is made the seal of the covenant of grace , that is , that god would be the god of abraham and his seed for the future , sanctifying , justifying , saving him and them , ●is indeed to evacuate the force of the apostles argument , which is , that righteousness is not appropriated to the lawes by the law , but common to the gentiles with them by faith , because abrahams circumcision sealed to him the righteousness of faith , which he had before he was circumcised . nor do i see that which camier . paust . cath. tom . . l. . c. . sect. . saith , doth prove that circumcision rom. . . is meant of a seal of a promise , because gen. . in the institution it was termed a token of the covenant , for the apostle , rom. . mentions not what god appointed circumcision to be to every circumcised person , but what peculiar use abrahrms circumcision had to him and all believers though uncircumcised . and though it is true , that righteousness of faith supposeth a word of god , or a promise or covenant of grace , yet ro . . the citcumcision there mentioned is said to seal not a promise of something future , but something past and already had many years before , gen. . . but were it granted , that ci●cumcision there sealed the promise to come , to wit , that part of the covenant , gen. . . thou shalt be a father of many nations , and that v . and i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant to bee a god unto thee and thy seed after thee , or that gen. . . so shall thy seed be , mentioned rom. . , . and so did assure a future estate to others as well as an estate already ob●ained to abraham , yet this is ascribed in that place to no ones circumcision but abrahams . for . the occasion and scope of the passage shew it is meant of abrahams circumcision , it being alleged to prove , that gentiles were to be justified by faith though uncircumcised , because abraham was justified by faith afore circumcision , and his circumcision after did but seal ( not convey ) the righteousness of faith we had before . . the expression [ he received ] standing in opposition to [ yet being uncircumcised ] shewes that the receiving of the seal of circumcision was in his own person . . the end of receiving it sh●wes it more plainly : for it was , that he might be the father of them that believe . but this was the end onely of abrahams personall circumcision : neither ishmaels , nor isaacks , nor any others personall circumcision were , that abraham might be the father of them that believe , but onely abrahams . . the time exactly noted of his believing , and imputation of right●ousness to him , distinguished from the time of his receiving circumcision shew plainly that it was the same person who had the one and the other , and the receiving it not as a command to execute it upon others , but as a sign and seal to himself , and all believers whether circumcised or uncircumcised , evidently shew it is spoken rom . . of abrahams personall circumcision and of no others . as for gen. . . it is true circumcision is termed the covenant , and a token of the covenant : but it is not said of that promise onely , v ▪ . nor of that promise in the gospel sense , and therefore it cannot there be proved to be a token or seal of the covenant of grace ; but it followeth that rom. . . gen. , . , are impertinently alledged by the assembly to prove this proposition , sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace . yea the end of circumcision was conceived generally by the jewes , and so used to bind men to observe the law of moses for righteousness . and thus they taught who are mentioned acts . . except ye be circumcised after the manne● of moses yee cannot be saved . and v. . that it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses , acts . ▪ . thou seest brother how many thousands of jewes there are which believe , and they are all zealous of the law , and they are informed of thee , that thou teachest all the jewes which are among the gentiles , to forsake moses , saying , that they ought not to circumcise their children , neither to walk after the customes , and the apostle gal. . , , saith , behold i paul say to you , that if any of you be circumeised christ shall profit you nothing . for i testifie again to every man that is circumcised , that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. so that circumcision in the ordinary use may seem to have been a seal of the law rather than of the gospel or covenant of grace ; and if your baptism be of the same nature with circumcision , it is so far from being a rite of the gospel , that it rather binds us to observe the law. but fourthly , were it granted that it was in the use of it according to the institutton a seal of the covenant of grace , how doth it follow from thence , that this is the nature of every sacrament ? whence will it be evinced that that is the genus of every sacrament which is not so much as once attributed to them . the passover is counted a sacrament , and we find that it signified the passover over the isralites houses , and sparing their first born , and that it typified christ , cor ▪ . . but this doth not prove that it was a seal of the covenant of grace any more than jon●hs being in the whales belly , which was a type of christs buriall , was a seal of the covenant of grace . i grant we are said to be baptized into christs death , to be buried by baptism into death , rom ▪ ▪ to be buried with him in baptism , and therein to be raised up through the faith of the operation of god who raised him from the dead , col. . , and that they who are baptized into christ , have put on christ , gal. . . and the cup is called the new testament in his blood , cor. . . and therefore i should yelld to call both th●se ordinances signes memorative of christs death in the first place , and by consequence seals of the new testament and its benefit●s , specially the cup in the lords supper . but this doth not prove this is the genus of sacraments , much less of all sacraments . nor doth it any whit justifie the determining of doubts of conscience , and so binding duties on mens consciences concerning meer positive rites without any institution of christ , or apostolicall example , meerly from this devised term , the seal of the covenant , and mal●ing it so necessary to be acknowledged , that it is pressed on persons to be admitted to the lords supper , as it were a necessary article of faith. . this term seal of the covenant , applied to these sacraments , as being of their nature is , so farre as my reading and memory reach , but a novell term , not used till the . century , & in that not used among the learned romanists and lutherans , at least not frequently . i grant the ancients say , men are sealed by baptism , and sometimes by laying on of hands or anointing after baptism . and this sealing is attributed to infant baptism by nazianzen in his fortieth oration . but this sealing was not a confirmation of the covenant of grace , but a confirmation of their faith received in baptism . the ancient greeks call it the seal of faith , as the latins call it the seal of repentance , and the sacrament of faith , in respect of the profession of faith , as grotius annot. on mat. . . observes when he saith , and such were the interrogations of faith either in the first times , or those next the first in respect of which by basil and others , it is called the seal of faith , sealing of faith , of repentance , by tertul. in his book of repentance , and this sealing was not to assure a promise , but to strengthen and keep their faith or vertues . whence as mr. gataker observes in his strictures on dr. davenants epistle , pag. , . they accounted baptism to some not as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a pardoning of sins , but a seal of vertues ; and where nazianzen calls ●t a seal , he expresseth it thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a seal as keeping and noting dominion . no where do i find any of them use the term seal of the covenant of grace , applied either to sacraments in generall , or to baptism in special . . but were the use of the term seal of the covenant of grace in the scripture , or the writings of the ancients , yet it is against logick to define a sacrament by a seal of the covenant as the genus , and so to make it of its essence . for it is a rule in logick , definitio non fit ex verbis metaphoricis , scheibler top. cap. num . . ita aristot , topic. lib. . c. . sect . . keckerm . syst. logic . lib. . sect . cap. . aristotle saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every translated speech is doubtfull till reduced to proper , for it may have divers senses . besides , metaphors , or borrowed speeches , may be many , as in this point we may call a sacrament a pledge , as in the common prayer book catechism , or a pawn , earnest , as well as a seal chamier . paust . cath. tom . . l. . c. . sect . . you have also the similitude of a pledge somewhat divers from seals , but nevertheless tending to the same , which we also doe most willingly use . and if we should define a sacrament by a pledge , and from that metaphor infer , that an infant must contract afore it receive the sacrament as a pledge , we might do it with as good reason as they who infer they are to be sealed because the seal followes the covenant . well doth chamier call a seal a similitude , which cannot shew what a sacrament is , but what it is like ; and therefore all metaphors are unfit to shew the quid●●tative conceit of a thing , nor are to be used in definitions except there be want of proper terms , of which there is not in this case . now to define a sacrament by a seale of the covenant , is to define it by a metaphor , neither baptism nor the lords supper are seals in proper acceptation , they make no visible figure or impression on the body , therefore to use the term thus is an abuse , much more when positions and duties are urged on mens consciences from it . i will subjoyn mr. baxters words in his apologie against mr blake , sect. . pag , . some sober men no way inclined to anabaptism , do think that we ought not to call the sacraments seals ; as being a thing not to be proved from the word ; ( for all rom. . ) but i am not of their mind , yet i think it is a metaphor , and to make it the subject of tedious disputations , and to lay too great a stress upon a metaphoricall notion , is the way not to edifie , but to lose our selves . lastly , were all this yielded to mr m. that the term seal of the covenant were the language of the scripture and ancients , and fit enough to express the generall nature of sacraments , yet i conceive it of little moment to the ends to which it is applied . for what is it to seal and not to confer grace , but onely to assure ? and so the use of it is to represent to the mind as a morall instrument . but that is not done to infants , who are not naturally capable to understand the meaning , therefore this term [ seal of the covenant ] beyond . [ sign of grace ] doth not take away the objection of papists , lutherans , or anti-paedobaptists that without giving grace or faith by baptism , it is in vain or without effect to baptize infants . and in like manner the deriving from it paedobaptism is very frivolous . these things will appear by considering what mr m. and others say of the covenant which they say is sealed , and of the sealing , there being little agreement among paedobaptists , whether the inward or outward covenant , the absolute or conditionall be sealed , whether the sealing be absolute or conditionall , to the major , minor , or conclusion . i will examine what i find said by mr m. first , whose words are commended by mr. pry●●● in his suspension suspended , pag. , & c. ●e saith , in every sacrament the truth of the covenant it self , and all the promises of it are sealed to be yea and amen , and this is sealed absolutely in baptism to all that partake of it . but . there 's no scripture that saith so : that rom. . is impertinent : for christ is not called the minister of circumcision because he did administer circumcision to others , that were not true , he circumcised none , but he was a circumcised minister for the truth , he was of the circumcision , that is , a jew not a gentile . nor is it said his circumcision was to confirm the promises of the fathers that they were true ; but that therefore he was a circumcised minister for the truth of god , that the promises of the fathers might be confirmed by his ministring the truth of god in his preaching , or in his accomplishment of what the promises foretold . . nor do i know any act in baptism that hath any aptnesse of it self , or by institution to seal this position , that the covenant of grace and all the promises of it are yea and amen . . yet were it so , this sealing is not to infants , who have no intelligence thereof , and so no confirmation thereof by baptism . . nor doth this sealing any more pertain to the children of believers , than unbelievers , it is but of the truth of the covenant in it self , not of any persons interest in it . . this is as well sealed by the baptism of others , yea by the baptism of any one deceased , most of all by christs baptism , as by each persons own baptism . . this sealing may be not onely to them that are baptized , but to them that deny baptism , yea to infidels , yea to devils , who may and do believe the truth of the covenant it self , and all the promises of it to be yea and amen , and have it sealed as well to them by the baptism of a person as to the baptized , and better than to an infant . but perhaps mr m. helps the matter in the second or third . but as to the second ( saith he ) which is interesse meum , or the receivers interest in that spirituall part of the covenant , that is sealed to no receiver absolutely , but conditionally ; in this particular all sacraments are but signa conditionalia , conditionall seals sealing the spirituall part of the covenant to the receivers upon condition that they perform the spirituall part of the covenant . thus our divines use to answer the papists , thus dr. ames answers to bellarmine , when bellarmine disputing against our doctrines , that sacraments are seals , alledges then they are falsly applied oftentimes ; he answers to bellarmin , sacraments are conditionall seals , and therefore not seals to us but upon condition . answer . the spirituall condition is faith , so ames bell. enerv . tom . . l. . ● . . q. . th . . sacramenta non sunt testimonia completa & absoluta , nisi credentibus . sacraments are not compleat and absolute testimonies but to the believing . now if the sacraments seal onely conditionally , they seal onely this proposition , that he that believeth shall be justified , saved , &c. but this is all one with sealing the truth of the covenant in it self : nor doth this seal the baptized persons interest in the covenant any more than the unbaptizeds ; no more to the infants of believers than of unbelievers , not at all to any till they believe , and so to no infants ordinarily , and if then the baptizing of them must be derived from this interest and sealing of the covenant , either none are to be baptized till they do believe , or all alike are to be baptized . besides , if sacraments be but conditionall signes , or testimonies incompleat , and conditionall till persons believe , then they are but conditionall incompleat sacraments till a person believes , sith to be a sign & seal is of the nature of a sacrament ; and if so , then infants have not a compleat sacrament or absolute , but an incompleat and conditionall baptism , and consequently though the baptizer begin to baptize the infants , yet he cannot say he doth baptize them , but must wait till they be believers , and then he may say he baptizeth them , and gives them a compleat sacrament , and is bound to baptize them when they come to years whom he did wash in infancy , or else he mocks them , which is the mind of christ indeed , that he that believeth should be baptized , and no other , mark . . besides , whether there be any conditionall sealing may be a uqestion . mr. baxter apologie against mr blake , sect. . pag. . speaks of it as a strange thing useless and vain . but this i shall leave till i examine mr. baxters exceptions against me about the condirional covenant and sealing , onely i take notice of his words sect. . pag. , a conditional seal is not a seal till the condition be performed , and infers , that if baptism be a conditionall seal , it is no seal , and consequently no sacrament to an infant untill he doth perform the condition . mr m. adds , now for the third thing the obligation which is put upon the receiver , a bond or tie for him to perform , who is admitted to receive the sacrament , this third i say is also absolute , all circumcised and baptized persons did or do stand absolutely ingaged to perform the conditions required on their part , and therefore all circumcised persons were by the circumcision obliged to keep the law , that is , the legall and typicall administration of the covenant which was then in force , and infants among the rest , are bound to this though they had no understanding of the covenant , or that administration of the covenant when this seal was administred to them . answer . it is true , god required that his covenant should be kept , which is expressed to be , that every man child among the hebrewes should be circumcised , gen , . , . but this was the duty of the parents , not of the infants , who were to be circumcised not to circumcise . and it is true , that all circumcised persons were by the eircumcision obliged to keep the law. and if circumcision sealed this , its sealing of this was the sealing of a command not a promise of god , for they are not obliged to keep gods promise ( that is the work of god alone ) but his precept , so that this sealing is not of the covenant of grace at all : yea by this sealing obliging to keep the whole law , the covenant of works is sealed rather than the covenant of grace , as the apostles speech shews , gal. ▪ , , , and this sealing belongs to all infants and elder persons , for all are tied to perform the condition of the covenant , that is to repent and believe . and if hence be derived a title to baptism , either all are to be baptized because all are obliged to the condition of repentance and faith , or none are to be baptized but penitent & believing persons . to speak the plain truth , the right use of baptism is first to seal to god , testifying our repentance and faith by it , afore god seals to us by it any benefit of the covenant of grace . to conclude , mr. m. hath not yet acquitted himself from putting a seal to a blank , which mr calvin counts a profanation of the sacrament when he baptizeth an infant , who hath neither a promise of spiritual grace from god , nor doth perform the condition of the covenant , nor understand by baptism any thing of the covenant , nor professe any accptance of the covenant , nor is or can be known to have any part in the covenant of grace , nor is there indeed any thing but vanity in this discourse of mr. m. or the paedobaptists doctrine about sacraments being seals of the covenant of grace , and the interest of believers infants therein . sect . xxxii . the exceptions in my examen , part . sect. . against mr ms speeches about the covenant and conditionall sealing , are made good against mr. m. and mr. blake . but that we may the better discern the vanity of paedobaptists conceits about the seal and covenant , i shall enquire a little more into this point , in which i find much jangling and uncertainty among them . to which i conceive my self the more ingaged , because some words of mine in my examen , part . sect. . gave some overture to mr m. and after to mr bl. and mr b. to except much against me about this point . two things which i said in that passage , it seems , are not relished ▪ one , that i said that god seals not to every one that is baptized , but onely to true believers ; the other , that making gods promise in the covenant of grace conditional in this sense , that persons after agnize the covenant , and that to speak of it so as if it were common to the elect and reprobates , and conditionall in this sense , as if god left it to mens liberty to whom he had sealed , to agn●ze or recognize that sealing , or to free themselves if they please , and so nullifie all ; yet so , as to afford them a while the favour and priviledge of being in covenant with him , ●s symbolizing with arminians . to this mr m. replied but little , yet what he saith in his defence , pag. , i shall briefly answer . first , saith he , was not circumcision gods sign and seal , which by his own appointment was applied to all the jewes and proselytes , and their children ? ans. circumcision was appointed by god to be applied to all the jews , & proselytes and their children being males of eight dayes old , and was by his institution a sign of the covenant made with abraham , gen. . abrahams own circumcision in his own person , was , a seal of the righteousness of faith , which he had yet being uncircum●ised , but that god did by circumcision seal ●o every one the righteousness of faith who was rightly circumcised , i find not , nor if i did , should i think it were any thing to prove that god seals the righteousness of faith to every one that is baptized rightly , sith i doe not take circumcision and baptism to be all one , or to have the same use , or that baptism seals in the same manner as circumcision . mr. m. adds , did it ingage god absolutely to every one of them to write his law in their hearts , &c. answer . no. and are not the sacraments signa conditionalia , conditionall signes and seals ? answer . i conceive baptism , according to christs institution , to be a sign of the faith of the baptized , and so it is a sign absolute , and not conditionall , and because the object of that faith is christ dead and risen again , whereby we are justified , and baptisme as fitted to mind the baptized of christs death , but all and resurrection , rom. . , , . col. . . it is in its nature , that is in its right use ▪ apt to seal ▪ that is to assure justification and salvation , pet. . . and so may be termed in its nature a seal aptitudinall , but yet it seals actually to none but those who truly believe , which it doth absolutely in respect of justification , and coditionally in respect of glorification , which is not yet attained , nor to be attained but upon conditition of perseverance : yet it doth not seal that as an uncertain thing because conditionall , for even the condition also is assured by vertue of the death of christ confirming the covenant of grace , or the new testament in his blood . but when i say these things are actually assured by baptism , i do not conceive they are actually sealed by god , not to the true believer without the inward testimony or seal of the spirit , without which god never sealed actually by his word or sacraments these promises of the covenant of grace or the persons interest in them , although both the word of god , the oath of god , the death of christ , the ordinances of baptism and the lords supper , are in themselves , or in their nature aptitudinall seals , that is , apt signs to assure them . the like i say of the lords supper , both which are alike signes and seals , neither to an infant without extraordinary operation . mr m. adds , and did any orthodox divines before your self , charge this to be arminianism , to say that the gospel runs upon conditions ? i confesse it is arminianism to say any thing is conditionall to god , this i never asserted● , but that the gospel is both preached , and by the sacraments sealed to us upon condition of faith , will passe for orthodox doctrine when you and i are dead and gone . answer . i never charged this to be arminianism , that the gospel runs upon conditions , that it is both preached and by the sacraments sealed to us upon condition of faith , according to the explication given . what i count symbolizing with the arminians , i have before declared , to wit , gods conditionall sealing and covenant common to elect and reprobates , as mr m. in his sermon seemed to conceive . to what i said that i did not well understand that god required of the jewes infants to seal in their infancy , i reply saith mr m. but i hope you understand , that the infants were sealed in their infancy , and by this they received not only a priviledge to be accounted as belonging to gods family , but it also obliged them to the severall duties of the covenant , as they grew up to be capable of performing them . answer . i understand the iewes were circumcised in their infancy , but that god did seal to every circumcised infant , either the truth of the promises , or his interest in them , or that they did in infancy seal to god , i do not yet understand . for though they had the priviledge mentioned , yet not by vertue of gods sealing to them , and though they were obliged to the duties mentioned , yet not by vertue of their sealing to god. but mr. bl. and mr , b. are more earnest in this point , and in opposition to what i said in my examen , part . sect. . in his answer to my letter mr. bl. ch . . asserts , sect. . the seals of the sacrament are conditionall , not absolute , sect. . the entrance into covenant and acceptation of the terms of it , is common to the elect and reprobate , a heart stedfast in the covenant , and the mercies of the conenant , are proper onely to the elect and regenerate , sect. . to say that the seals of the sacraments are conditionall , and that the reprobate are within the verge of the covenant , as tendered in the gospel ; and accepted , is not to symbolize with arminians . to which i replied in my postscript , sect. . concerning which mr. bl. in his plain scripture proof , &c. pag. . of the first edition , saith , but to these mr. bl. hath fully answered mr t. though in his apology he passeth over much , and is not able to discern his meaning . for my part i speak impartially according to my judgement , i think there is more true worth in those two or three leaves of mr. blakes book , in opening the nature of the covenant , than in all mr t s book that ever he wrote about baptism . and pag. . he chargeth me with two errors in apologie , and saith of them , i conceive these dangerous errors of mr t. about the nature of the covenant and seals in generall , are the root of his error about baptism , or at least much strengthen it , and there he takes upon him to refute them . since that time mr. bl hath renewed his exceptions , vindic grat . ch . . to which as touching upon mr b. about the thing sealed , and manner of sealing , mr b. hath replied in his apologie against mr. blakes exceptions , sect. , &c. pag. . because of mr bs censure i have received the passages in mr blakes answer to my letter , ch . . & in my postscript sect. . and leaving mr. b. ( who is no competent judge of my writings , by reason of his prejudice against me and the cause i maintain ) and others to conceive of my books as they please , i am not ashamed to profess , . that i discern no such true worth in mr blakes mentioned passages which open the nature of the covenant , but rather sundry that darken it , the shewing of which now would be but a digression . . that there is not one of the three positions set down by mr blake , which doth contradict anything i said in my examen , part . sect . for i said not the sacraments are seals absolute , not conditionall ; but that god seals not upon condition persons agnize the covenant , as mr m. said in his sermon , pag. , nor did i deny , that the entrance into covenant and acceptation of i● , is common to elect and reprobate , but that gods covenant of grace , or as i said before , his promise in the covenant of grace , is common to the elect and reprobates , and this was it which i termed symbolizing with arminians , not that which mr. blake sets down . . that i do not find that i have need to make any further reply to mr. blake therein , nor to the six arguments he brings , vindic. foed . ch . . to prove sacraments sealing conditionally . and for the flings mr blake hath at some spe●ches of mine , i shall briefly return answer . those words of mine , i like not to call the sacrament a conditionall seal , for that which seals doth assure , and supposeth the condition ▪ in my apprehension , that which is called conditionall sealing , is not sealing , but offering or propounding , or representing : but about this i will not contend , mr. bl. leaving out the later words , thus oppose●h , then our lawyers have a long time decived us , who have given us presidents ( as they call them ) for obligations under seal , to run in these words ; the condition of this obligation is such , and after an indication of the condition , to conclude and close up all : then this present obligation to be void and of none effect , or else to stand in full force and vertue : seals we see leave the condition to me doubtfull . whereto i reply . neither i nor the lawyers do deceive mr blake , but he deceives himself , the words of the president do intimate that the validity of the obligation is conditionall , and is left doubtfull , not that the seal is conditionall , which doth absolutely assure or testifie the obligation : or , as the lawyers speak , the act and deed of him that seals , which is not future , but present , and so not conditionall . mr baxter apol. against mr blake sect. . i never heard of nor knew a conditionall sealing in the world , though i have oft heard of the effects of obligation and collation of right to be conditionall , which are not onely separate from the terminus proximus of sealing , but also are directly the effects of the covenant , promise , testament , &c. onely , and but remotely of the seals , inasmuch as that seal is a full owning of the testament of conveyance : yet such a thing as a conditionall sealing may be imagined . in a word , a conditionall engagement , or obligation , is one thing , and frequent ; a conditionall seal , or sealing , is another thing but unknown . there are other things at me as calumniating mr. m. concerning his words , as symbolizing with the arminians , which i shall acqui● my self from in answering mr b. and that mr bs questionist and my self are both of one pitch both for knowledge and ignorance , and stand equally affected to mr. bl. both in respect of his person and opinions ; which intimate as if he were perswaded i were that questionist , whom i profess to be unknown to me , and were disaffected to mr. blakes person , though i knew not wherein i have shewed any disaffection to him , and for my knowledge or ignorance be it more or lesse , i hope it will appear in the conclusion , that god hath given me so much knowledge as to shew the vanity of mr blakes and mr bs pleas for infant-baptism . and for his flirt or scoff at the wide standing open of the door in my night sacraments , i think my actions justifiable in celebrating the lords supper at night as christ did , with such notes as the apostle made thereon in calling it the lords supper , cor. . . and relating it so distinctly , v. , . my admitting none but bap●●zed persons after profession of faith , is justified by mr blakes own words , though somewhat misrepresenting my tenent , vindic. foed . ch . . nor do i admit any one other profession to baptism than was done in the first times by men who had the spirit of god to guide them ; and if any be baptized in the night , it 's justifiable by pauls action , acts . . his flings also which he hath , vindic. foed . ch . . p. . shew the same satyricall vein , when he saith , i establish a new conditionall covenant against the new testament light , which i shall shew i establish in that sense , i do it according to plain new testament light , and censures these words , the not teaching one another spoken of , heb. , . is meant of that obscure teaching which was under the law , apol. pag. . said somewhat magisterially after my manner , whereas neither could i well dilate then being straitned in time , and the exposition of that place there was but on the by , and enough was said by me in those words answerably to the occasion , and i conceived understanding men would gather the reason of my interpretation from those few words , which is , that the new covenant being there declared cōtradistinct to that in horeb , as the writing the laws in the heart is mentioned to distinguish it from the writing in stone , so the teaching is mentioned to distinguish it f●ō that obscure teaching which was under the law , which i said not magisterially , nor any thing else , as mr. bl. mis-censures me . this is enough , if not too much to answer these flirts of mr. bl. fourthly , i add , that i find sundry passages in mr. bl. which seem to me to speak to the same purpose with my words , as answer to my letter , pag. . that baptism assures actually when men doe believe , pag. . out of mr. ball , they that be truly in covenant obtained the highest blessings , p. . this covenant of jeremies is no more than that promise , deut. . . the lord thy god will circumcise thy heart , and the heart of thy seed , that thou mayst love the lord , &c. and his words vindic. foed . ch . . pag. . that the sacrament doth actually seal to believers and penitent ones , are answered by mr b. apol. against mr bl. sect . . thus , i perceive mr. t. and you are more of a mind than i was aware off . sect . xxxiii . that it is no error as mr baxter calls it , but a truth , that the covenant of grace is made onely to the elect . but that i may acquit my self of mr. bs charge of errors in these points , i shall answer first what he saith about my fifth imagined error , because as mr. b. saith , appendix to his aphorisms , pag. . it is in vain to enquire whether the sacraments do seal absolutely or conditionally , till you first know well what it is that they seal . and here i think it needfull to set down mr bs words against mr , bl. in his apol. p. . sect. . arg. . that doctrine which signifieth an unsealed covenant for giving right to the covenant of grace , is unsound . but such is mr. blakes , therefore no scripture can be brought to prove such an outward covenant of gods : and it is against the common reason and custome of men , that a second covenant should not be drawn to convey right to the seal of the first covenant , seeing right to covenants seals go together , and if there must be another covenant to give right to that , then by the same reason there must be another to give right to that , and another to that , and so in infinitum . to the antecedent it is apparent that mr. bl. distinguisheth ex parte dei between the outward and inward covenant . it is probable that he thus distributes them from the blessings promised , whereof some are inward , and some outward : for though he explain not himself fully , yet i know no other sense that it will bear . it is evident that his outward covenant hath no seal . for it is a covenant de conferendis ●igillis . if therefore it have a seal , it is either the same which is promised , or some other : other i never heard of . they no where tell us what is the seal of their outward covenant : the same it cannot be , for the same thing cannot be the materia foederis , or the legacie it self , or the benefit given , and the seal too of that covenant whereby it is given . and pag. ● . mr bls common phrase is , that they are [ in the outward covenant ] and what that is , i cannot tell , and then proves , that god makes no such outward covenant . from whence i inferr , , that mr. b. had not cause to blame me for not disdaining mr blakes meaning when he understands him no better , , nor to magnifie his writing so much , in which he finds so many flawes . . nor to rest so much upon an imagined ground of mens right to baptism by gods promise or covenant grant which the che●fest assertors of paedobaptism cannot well tell what it is . . that by mr bs judgment there is no such outward covenant of god , as mr bl. and other paedobaptists infer infant-baptism from ▪ and for the inward covenant , or covenant of saving grace , mr m. mr g. and others , disclaim it as made to all the infants of believers . let us view what mr b. saith about the covenant sealed by baptism and its sealing . in his confut. of my six imagined errors plain scripture proof , &c. pag. , he thus speaks , error● . mr t. holdeth that the covenant whereof baptism is the seal , is the absolute covenant of grace made onely to the elect . confutation . many more mistakes he utters in the way to this about the covenant . this he publickly pleaded for in his dispute , and alledged dr. twisse as affirming the covenant of grace to be absolute . to which i then answered , . that to thrust in mens names and words , when in disputation we are enquiring what the scripture saith , was unseasonable and diverting . . that dr. twisse doth constantly in all his writings affirm , that the promises of remission of sin and salvation are conditionall , though the promise of the grace [ i will take the hard heart out of their bodies &c ] is absolute . this i dare affirm as having read six of dr twisse his books again and again . and then he adds somewhat of dr. twisse , which i leave to others to answer as they shall see cause . answer . that baptism is the seal of the covenant is not my expression , except when i speak in answer to paedobaptists according to their mind , and in what seal and manner i allow it , i have said before . what i said of dr twisse in the disputation , was neither unseasonable nor diverting , nor untrue . the dispute was ( so far as i can gather from my memory and the notes i have of the dispute ) whe●her the words deut. . . did prove that god did make the covenant ●here with all that are said to enter into covenant , which i ●enied , and mr. b. endeavoured to prove from the words [ and that he may be to thee a god ] and from deut. . ▪ where he promiseth to circumcise the heart of them and of their seed ; which i proved could not be , sith the covenant of grace is made only to the elect , and it is absolute in that promise , i will write my lawes in their hearts , which is the same with circumcising the heart , and so could not be meant of all that entred into covenant , deut. . , , ( which mr b. since acknowledge●h in his letter to mr. bedford when he saith thus , the text seemes plainly to speak of their seed not in their infant estate but in their adult , deut. . ) but of the elect onely , and in respect of that promise the covenant of grace is absolute , which i thought seasonable , no way diverting from the business to confirm by dr. twisse his authority , whose tenent mr b. confesseth was , that the promise of the first grace [ i will take the hard heart out of their bodies , &c. ] is absolute . and to shew that i did dr. twisse no wrong , i shall alledge some words of his which i find in his animadversions on corvinus his defence of arminius against tilenus , p. negamus deum pacisci foedus gra●iae cum omnibus & singulis : dicimus hoc fieri solum cum electis : that is , we deny that god makes the covenant of peace with all and each , we say it to be made onely with the elect . pag. . at foedus gratiae absolutum est ; quod & nube testimoniorm divinorum comprobatum damus : that is , but the covenant of grace is absolute , which also we prove by a cloud of testimonies . but mr. b. having given dr twisse a lash , on the by falls thus on me . but mr. t. his answer to me was , that the promise of saving grace is not conditional , and that though some parts of the covenant be conditionall , yet it is all together that is called the covenant , the leading promise being not conditionall , therefore the covenant is not conditionall , and that it was a grosse palpable error of me to say , that the promise of saving benefits was made to infants that were not ●lest . answer . my answer is the same now that it was then , and having upon occasion of this charge , reviewed the notes of the dispute , which though very imperfect , i have yet by me , i find not but that in the greatest part of the dispute , i answered mr. b. rightly , though he have most shamefully and unbrotherlike misrepresented me to the world , and made a noyse in the world as if he had driven me to gross absurdities , which having acquitted my self from in my pr●cursor , sect. . he replies nothing to that section , which i take to be a tacite confession of his unworthy abusing of me , and i do think it necessary to tell the world , that i find so little of brotherly love to me , or common ingenuity in his insolent carriages towards me at the dispute , and his relations of me and of the dispute in print , that i think i should have found better dealing from a jesuite than from him . and though i take him to be a godly man , and an excellent preacher and writer in practicall points , yet i find him to be but a superficiall disputer , and a slight interpreter of scripture . but to the point . four things mr. b. it seems mislikes in my answer , . that i said , that the promise of saving grace is not conditionall . to declare my self more fully , it is requisite i should shew what promise of saving grace i make not conditionall . there is the saving grace of redemption , regeneration , justification , remission of sins , adoption , glorification . the condition imagined as presupposed to the promise of saving grace , that is , to the fulfilling of it , is either the well using naturall abilities , as foregoing the promise of conversion and regeneration ; or faith and repentance as foregoing justification , remission of sins , adoption , glorification . the promise of saving grace may be said to be conditionall in respect of these later saving graces , and the conditions mentioned , yet in respect of the promisers intention and act in the event , certain , necessary , and infallibly to be performed by the person to whom the promise is made , and in this sense i grant the promise of saving graces conditionall , that is , that god hath promised to none the saving graces of justification , remission of sins , adoption , but on condition of true repentance and faith ; nor glorification but on condition of perseverance therein : yet that these conditions are not uncertain in the event , or left to the persons to whom the promise is made , to do by themselves , but by gods intention and actings certainly to be accomplished ; or it may be said to be conditionall , that is , ●o as that the condition of any of these graces is made the well using naturall abilities , or that the conditions of these later saving graces are uncertain in the event notwithstanding the promisers intention and acting , and thus i deny the promise of saving grace to be conditionall . more briefly , i deny the promise of regeneration and conversion , to presuppose some well using our naturall abilities , or that justification , remission of sins , adoption , glorification , are promised upon condition of our repentance , faith , obedience , perseverance , left by god to be performed by us , and not promised as certain in the event , which is the arminian sense , yet deny that the promise of justification , remission of sins , is absolute , so as that god promiseth that an elect person shall be justified , or have remission of sins without a fore faith , which is charged on the antinomians . the second thing which mr. b. mislikes in my answer is , that though some parts of the covenant be conditional , yet it is all together that is called the covenant . but this speech if it be liable to exception , mr. b. must except against the holy ghost , who doth expresly call all together the covenant , heb. . . saying , this is the covenant which i will make , and having recited all together , he adds , v. . in that he saith a new covenant . and the like is heb. . . the third thing misliked in my answer is , and the leading promise being no● conditionall , therefore the covenant is not conditional ▪ but there is no just cause of excepting against this , sith ●t is usuall , and that according to a logick rule to determinate from the more famous part , or chief part , as a visible church is called holy , or of saints , even in scripture , cor. . . from the better part , a field of corn where is much tare . do not paedobaptists usually call the covenant gen. . the eovenant of grace , though there be other promises than of saving grace , and what promise is made of saving grace there ▪ is made under the covert of words expressing other things . and to shew that there is reason for what i said , i urge , . that the promise of writing the lawes of god in the heart , heb. . ▪ is not onely the leading promise , but also it is the comprehensive promise , including or inferring all the rest , for therefore god will be a god to them , be mercifull to their unrighteousness , because he will write his lawes in their heart ; to those and those onely he promiseth the later to whom he promised the former . yea , it seemeth to be the principall thing god aimed at in the new covenant , to assure that he would not write his lawes in stone as he did before , but write them in their heart . . that where luke● . , . he puts it to be in this ( which i take to be absolute ) that he would give to us , that being delivered from the hand of our enemies , without fear we should serve him in holiness and righteousness before him all the dayes of our life , v. , . the fourth thing misliked in my answer is , that i said , that it was a gross palpable error of mr. b. to say that the promise of saving benefits was made to infants that were not elect . if i understand mr. m. he counted it a gross error , when he disclaimed this asser●ion , that the covenant of saving grace is made to believers and their naturall seed . defence of his sermon , pag. . and mr. g. when in his vindic. p●●dob p. . he said of this conclusion , that infants are taken into covenant with their parents in respect of saving graces , you know the conclusion in that sense is so manifestly against protestants principles and experience , that no protestant can hold it but mr. b. it 's like will not be convinced by mens sayings , let us try what we can do by arguments . the promise of saving benefits is made onely to those to whom saving benefits are bestowed : but to elect infants onely they are bestowed . ergo. the major is manifest to them that acknowledge god to be true and faithfull , it being manifest falshood and unfaithfulness to promise and not to perform . but it is certain by experience and scripture that god saves none but the elect . therefore it is a gross and palpable error as charging god with lying to say , that his promise of saving benefits is made to infants not elect . . this is proved directly from the apostles words , rom. . , , . which also strengthens the former argument , where he concludes that the promises of god must be understood as made to them only to whom they were performed , otherwise the word of god should fall , which he abhorres as blasphemy . but i argue further thus . to them onely is the promise of saving benefits made , who are children of that promise , that god would be a god to them in respect of saving benefits , for to be the children of the promise there is manifestly meant of those to whom the promise of being god is meant , gen. . . as is proved before , sect. , . which the apostle in that chapter understands of saving benefits , which i think will not be denied ; if it were , it might be proved from v. , &c. but the elect onely are children of the promise , this is proved before , sect. , , and might be proved from v. . ergo. . i further argue from the same place ; if any other than the elect infants had the promise of saving benefits made to them ; then all the naturall seed of abraham , for no infants besides the elect , had more promises of saving benefits than they : but they all had not the promise of saving benefits made to them , the apostle determines , that the promise was to ishmael not esau , but onely to isaac and jacob , that the purpose of god according to election might stand , or be of him that calleth , whom he will for the seed , v. . therefore the promise of saving benefits is made onely to elect infants . to the allegation of this text , i find something said by mr. b. in his plain scripture proof . & . part. . chap. . . there is no strong appearance of contradiction in this to what we have taught . for i willingly acknowledge , that they are not therefore the children of god , because they are the seed of abraham , or others that were godly , but because they are the children of the promise . but mr. b. c●ean mistakes the apostles speech , for he conceives that all the naturall seed of abraham were yeelded to be the children of god , but not because children of the flesh , bu● because children of the promise , as if he granted the thing , but denied the reason , whereas the apostle denies the thing it self , affirming , that all the seed of abraham , were not the children of god , rom. . , , and contradisting the children of the promise to the children of the flesh , which were non-sense if they were the same , and no distinction or opposition between them . as if a man say , not all natives but free-men are citizens , he supposeth all natives are not freemen , and denies all natives who are not free-men , to be citizens mr b. adds , i pray you observe , . that which the apostle here pleadeth , is , that salvation was not by the covenant tied to all abrahams seed . to which i reply , this grants what i would evi●ce , that the promise of saving benefites was not to all abrahams seed , but only to the elect of them . but yet sa●th mr. b. he denieth not but church-membership did for the time past belong to the generallity of them . now it is not the certain salvation , but the church-membership of infants that we are disputing for ( in regard of the individuals answer . though it be the church-membership of infants which paedobaptists dispute for , and not the certain salvation , yet they would inferre their church-membership from that covenant which was a covenant of salvation as it was evangelicall . and this mr. b. must yeild , who in the words forecited against mr. bl. denies an outward covenant giving right to the seals , and asserts , a right to baptism as it is a benefit given directly by god from his promise , or covenant apol. against mr bl. p. ▪ which is no other than of saving grace , by which if salvation be not tied to all abrahams seed , then that covenant is not the ground of their church-membership , and right to the initiall seal , and consequently not to our infants , for take away the cause , the effect is removed , & so this text is directly against infant-baptism and church-membership . mr. b. adds , . the apostle disputeth not against the salvation or church-membership of every one of abrahams seed ; ( for many of his seed were after this saved ) but against the salvation of the whole seed or posterity conjunctim . but now anabaptists dispute against the church-membership visible of any infants . answer . if the church-membership visible of the whole seed or posterity conjunctim of abraham be asserted ( as it is by mr. b. ) from that covenant which the apostle denies to belong to the whole seed or posterity conjunctim ( which mr b. grants ) he disputeth for the anabaptists against the imagined visible church-membership of all infants of true believers . . saith mr. b. that which the apostle mainly drives at , is , that men are not therefore saved because they are abrahams carnall seed ( and consequently not because they are the carnall seed of any other . and i say so too with all my heart . but the apostle doth not say , or mean , that abrahams seed should not be saved : for they shall again be called , and so all israel shall be saved , rom. ) but onely that they are saved , not because they are his seed , bu● because they are children of the promise : and so say we , that the seed of the faithfull are church-members , and disciples and subjects of christ , not properly or directly because they are their seed ( for so they are no better than others : but because they are children of the promise ; god having been pleased to make the promise to the faithfull and their seed ; and having promised that the seed of the righteous shall be blessed : and that he will be mercifull to them , and will take thm to be a people to him , and he will be to them a god , and he hath pronounced them holy . isaac was abrahams seed , and jacob his , and yet not saved because his seed directly and properly ( yet remotely they were : ) but because children of the promise . answer . mr. b. in his pass●ge shewes , he neither understood the apostles scope nor answer , but according to his overly manner of handling texts , perverts both . i grant that from the apostles words it followeth , that men are not therefore saved because they are abrahams seed , and consequently not because they are the carnall seed of any other . but it is manifest , and acknowledged by all interpreters almost i m●et with , that the apostles scope is to answer an objection as the words v. . shew , that if the jewes were rejected the word of god to israel and abrahams seed falls ; which shews , that the objectors did not conceive god by covenant tied to save all abrahams seed , and israel , because he had by covenant tied himself to be a god to abraham and his seed , gen. . . and therefore paul did not rightly suggest , rom. , , . as if they should be rejected . the clearing of ●he consistency of these two things , the truth of gods promise , gen. . . , and the apostles intimation that the jewes should be cast away , was his scope , not that which mr. b. imagines the apostle mainly drives at , to shew why the jewes are saved , for the apostle supposeth that they should not be saved , and to maintain it , answers the objection . whence also it may be perceived , that mr. b. quite perverts the apostles answer : for he makes it to be this , . that the apostle doth not say , or mean , abrahams seed should not be saved , whereas it 's the very occasion of the objection , that he determined that a great part , or the body or people of the jewes , who were abrahams seed , were then rejected , as his words shew , rom. . , , , , , ▪ & , , , , . & . . . . , &c. and the gentiles taken for gods people in their stead : the searching of which was the great quarrell the jewes had against paul ▪ so that mr b. makes paul not to say that which he did teach , and plainly intimated in that very place . . that he onely sayes , that abrahams carnall seed were saved , not because they are his seed , but because they are children of the promise , which is both contrary to the apostles suppositions , which is , that they are not saved , and that because they are not children of god , nor children of the promise , though children of the flesh , and impertinent to the removing of the objection concerning the rejection of the jewes , how it could stand with gods promise . for the answer as mr. b. makes it , had no way justified gods truth , but strengthened the objection , if it were supposed they were children of the promise , whom yet paul counted for castawayes . nor do the apostles words say the children of the flesh are saved though not because they are abrahams seed , but that they are not the children of god , who were onely children of the flesh , not children of the promise , nor counted for the seed to whom the promise gen. . . was made at all , as it was evangelicall . as for what mr. b. alledgeth , that the jewes shall be again called , and so all israel be saved , rom. . and therefore the apostle doth not say , or mean , that abrahams seed should not be saved , it is inconsequent , si●h the apostle might and did suppose the present should not be saved though hereafter the jewes shall ; it followes on the contrary , he supposed the present jewes should be rejected , because he speaks of the calling and salvation of the jewes , was a thing future , yet not till the fulness of the gentiles be come in , in the mean time he saith , blindness happened to them in part . and what he saith , that god hath been pleased to make the promise to the faithfull and their seed , he neither sheweth where that promise is , nor do i know where to find it , nor where he promiseth to take them to be a people to him , and that he will be to them a god , and for what he alledgeth , that the seed of the righteous shall be blessed , and that god will be mercifull to them , how little they make for the visible church-membership of g●ntile believers infants , will be shewed in answering chap. , , , of the first part of his book . and for gods pronouncing them holy , he is fully answered , antipoedob , part . sect. ● &c. it followes in mr. b. and observe further , that paul here speaks not a word against the priviledge of the infants whose parents deny not god , nor violate his covenant , and fall not away . if any man should affirm , that all the infants of the faithfull so dying , are certainly saved , there is not a syllable in this text against him . for paul onely pleads , that if men fall away and prove unbelievers , god will not save them because ahraham ( or any other remote progenitor ) was faithful . the covenant never intended this : but yet children of those that fall not away , or be not broken off for unbelief , do lose none of their priviledges , but may belong to the visible or invisible church if any man should deny christ , and yet think to be saved because they are englishmen , or because their progenitors long since were faithfull ; i should use to them pauls words here . but what is this to those who do not deny christ , and therefore are both children of the flesh , and of the-promise ? besides , those the apostle here excludeth , were aged unbelievers , so that this text hath not any colour either against baptism , or their church membership . answer . there is little truth in this passage , paul speaks , rom. , . , , &c. against the being in the covenant , gen. . . of abrahams and isaacs naturall seed , and therefore by consequence against the church membership and baptism of believers children by vertue of that covenant being made to them , and he excludes esau before he was born , and therefore other than aged believers , and if esau the son of isaac , no apostate , were out of the covenant , and declared so afore he was born , then had he died in infancy , he had not bin saved , and so there is more than a syllable in this text against him , who should affirm , that all the infants of the faithfull so dying , are certainly saved ; for this text affirms some infants of the most holy believers , are not in covenant , and if not in covenant , not certainly saved , but certainly reprobate . the children of those who fall not away , have no such priviledge , that they do certainly belong either to the invisible or visible church . if there may be infant-children of believers who may be children of the flesh and not children of the promise , then the promise of saving benefits is not made to any other than the elect , for sure it is made to none other of other believers , if it be made onely to the elect ones of abraham and isaac . i go on . . the promise which is in christ yea and amen , is made onely to the elect , for it is not yea and amen to any other , sith it is not ratified & accomplished to any other . but the promise of saving benefits is in christ yea and amen , for so are as many promises as are in christ , cor. . . and such is the promise of saving benefits . ergo. . those promises which were made to christ , were made onely to the elect , for whether christ personall be meant the promises were made to him onely for those whom he represents , and they are onely the elect , or christs mysticall body that is his church they are the elect onely : but the promise of saving benefits made to christ , gal. . . ergo. . the promise which is of the covenant confirmed unto christ , is onely to the elect : but such is the promise of saving benefits , gal . . ergo. . the promise which is of eternall life ▪ is made onely to the elect : but such is the promise of saving benefits , tit. . . ergo. . to whom the promise of saving benefits is made , are heirs of the promise : but they are only to the elect , for to the heirs of promise gods counsell is shewed to be immutable for their salvation , heb. . . but so it is onely to the elect . ergo. . those promises by which we are made partakers of the divine nature , are made onely to the elect : but such are the promises of saving benefits , pet. . . ergo. . the promise of that covenant is made onely to the elect , of which christ is surety , for christs sureti●hip engageth him to perform it , and he performs it onely to the elect , therefore he is surety of the covenant onely for the elect : but the promise of saving benefits is of that covenant of which christ is surety , heb. . . ergo. . that covenant which is confirmed by christs blood , is made onely with the elect , for it was shed for them onely . but such is the new covenant , or covenant of grace , matth . ergo. . that covenant which is different from the first covenant in that it is not an occasion of complaint in that it was broken , and they continued not in it , is made onely to the elect : but such is the new covenant , or covenant of grace , heb. . , , . ergo. . the covenant which ingageth god to write his lawes in the hearts of those to whom it is made , ●s made onely to the elect , for god doth this onely to them : but such is the new covenant , or covenant of grace , heb. . . & . . ergo. . the covenant of which christ is mediator , is made onely to the elect . for he is mediator for them onely , sith he prayes for them onely , john . , and he is mediator of the new covenant , that by means of death they which are called might receive the promise of eternall inheritance , heb. . . but such is the new covenant or covenant of grace , heb. . ergo. . that covenant which is an everlasting covenant , is made onely to the elect , for the covenant with reprobates is not everlasting . but such is the new covenant , or covenant of grace , heb. . . ergo that in which are given the sure mercies of david , is made onely to the elect , for no other have them given to them : but such is the new covenant , or covenant of grace , isa. . . ergo. . that covenant which engageth god to give to them to whom it is made , deliverance from all enemies , and to serve god in holiness and righteousness before him all the dayes of their life without fear , is made onely to the elect , for to them onely god performs it : but such is the covenant of grace , luke . , , . ergo that covenant which assures perseverance to them to whom it was made , is made onely to the elect , for they onely persevere : but such is the new covenant of grace , isa. ▪ , . jer. ▪ . ergo. . if the covenant of grace be made with other than the elect , then it is the absolute or condi●ionall covenant , as mr b. distinguisheth ; but neither : not the first , as mr b. confesse●h ; nor the conditionall , for it is made onely with believers , and they are onely the elect . i grant it is propounded , as dr twisse speaks , animad . in corinth . defens . pag. ▪ or as others say , offered or tendered to others , but made with the elect . ergo. if the covenant of grace be made to any other than to the elect , then with all , which seems to be mr. bs opinion , when he saith , plain scripture proof , &c. pag : , the new covenant is conditionall and universall . but it is not made withall . that covenant which was made with all , had adam for the common head , but the new covenant was not made with adam as the common head , but with christ who is given for a covenant of the people , isai. . . and therefore rhe promise was , that the seed of the woman should break the serpents head , gen. . . which mr b most corruptly interprets , of the whole seed of the woman , infants as well as others . plain scripture proof , &c. part . . chap. . pag. , but it is true primarily or onely of christ , heb. . . but christ is not a common head to all , but onely to the elect , who are chosen in him , eph. . , . ergo i omit the arguments which doctor twisse urgeth in his animadversions on corinus , pag. . answer to m. hoard , pag. . . doctor kendall , vindic. part . ch . ▪ pag. , , and hasten to consider what mr b. saith further against me . and he saith in his examen and apology , that mr m. speakes like corinus and the arminians , in his asserting the conditional sealing , and when he talks of the covenant , christs suretiship , &c. to which i answer , a great many hotspurs of this age do make any thing arminianism , which is but contradictory to antinomianism . i will not say mr t. is an antinomian , for i think he is not ; but this opinion , that the covenant of grace , which baptism sealeth , is onely to the elect , and is not conditionall , is one of the two master-pillars in the antinomian fabrick ▪ answer . . if any antinomian or antipaedobaptist hath been in this age a verier hot-spur than mr b. let him be disciplin'd at bedlem : for my part i know none that hath in his writings shewed so much heat ( call it fury or zeal as you please ) with so much confidence and peremptoriness , and so many mistakes against antinomians , antipaedobaptists , and others , as he ha●h don . and surely they want not considerate men that fear lest the esteem he ●a●h gotten by his practical writings , and for infant-baptism , and the ministery , may occasion the swallowing down of some things he vents about univers●ll redemption , universall covenant of grace , uncertainty of perseverance , and salvation , the condition of justification , which with●ut more than a grain of salt will turn to a●miniani●m and popery if received by such understandings as are not of good concoction . nor do i know any man who under so great a shew of se●king truth and peace in the church , hath more hindred both . for tha● wh●ch he saith , that this opinion that the covenant of grace is onely to elect , and is n●t conditionall , is one of the pillars of antinomianism . i have made some search into my books , and made use of my memory , and though i find that in the synod at new town in new england , august , , this is made the error of the antinomians , that where faith is held forth by the ministery as the condition of the ●ovenant of grace on mans part , as also evidencing justification by sanctification and the activity of faith , in that church there is not sufficien● bread and in other books they are charged wi●h error in holding the covenant of grace absolute , so as if by it men were exempted from duty , they were justified without faith , &c. yet i never to my remembrance heard th●s charged with antinomianism , that the covenant of grace is made onely to the elect , but find it avouched by many of their best antagonists ; and the covenant of grace is held by able anti-arminians unconditionall in th●se two senses , . that god requires no condition from us to be performed by our power , but what he requires of us to do , he promiseth to works in those to whom he makes promise in that covenant . that in the covenant of grace god requires no condition which is of an uncertain event , but to those to whom he makes his promises of righteousness , forgiveness , eternall life , he also by covenant assures repentance , faith , and perseverance : and therefore though some proposals of the covenant of grace be conditionall , yet no promise as it stands in the entire covenant , is conditionall : and therefore the covenant and all the promises to be termed absolute and conditionall . mr. b. adds , . but to these mr b. hath fully answered mr. t. and fully cleared mr m. and himself from the charge of symbolizing with the arminians ; and hath fully proved , that the entrance into covenant , and acceptation of the term of it ( though not sincerely and unreservedly ) is common to the elect and reprobate ; and that the reprobate are within the verge of the covenant , as tendered in the gospel , and accepted ( as beforesaid with a half heart . ) and if any that are run into the other extream , shall think that this affirming that [ christ hath brought the reprobate also into the covenant of grace conditionall ] be any part of the arminian errors , as the whole scripture is against them , so mr. blake hath said enough to satisfie . answer . what mr blake asserted and took upon him to prove , did neither contradict what i said , nor vindicate mr m. who said in his sermon pag. . . that god did seal to infants presently , and put their name into the deed. . that in the mean time untill they come to years of discretion , jesus christ who is the surety of the covenant , heb. . . and the surety of all the covenanters , is pleased to be their surety . . that god accepts of such a seal on their parts as they are able to give in their infant age , expecting a future ratification on their part , when they are come to riper years . . that in the mean time he affords them the favour and priviledge of being in covenant with him . . when they are grown men , they may refuse to stand to this covenant , and nullifie all . these things i count symbolizing with arminians , to say that infants who may and do when they come to age , refuse to stand to this covenant , are for a while afforded by god the favour and priviledge of being in covenant with him , even in that covenant of which jesus christ is their surety , and that for a while jesus christ is their surety which contains three points of arminianism , . that god affords them the favour of being in covenant with him in that covenant of which christ is surety , who are reprobates . . that christ is their sure●y . . that they may be thus in covenant for a time onely . to say that any is afforded the favour of being in covenant with god who may be so for a time , and that christ is surety for such covenanters , is to hold that god makes this new covenant with other than the elect , and that christ is surety for them , is to hold that the new covenant is made with all , and that it doth not assure effectuall calling and perseverance , but is upon an uncertain condition left to mans will , which are condemned as the arminians errors on the second and fifth articles , by the deputies of gelderland act synod . dordr . judic . theol. prov. pag. . of south-holland pag. , . of north-holland ▪ pag . of zealand , pag. . of virecht , pag. , , . of friesland , pag. , &c. profess . belg ▪ pag. ● ▪ disput. g●ld . pag. . transisul . pag. , and others . and whereas mr. bl. vindic foed . pag. . chargeth me with misci●ing corvinus , i confesse i have not now his book by me , having lost it , yet such remaining notes as i have by me , do give me cause to think there is somewhat to that purpose in or neer the place , and however it is carried on , corvinus by the deputies at the synod of dort , in his defence of arminius against tilenus , and by dr. twisse in his animad ▪ pag. . and generally charged on the arminians by other authors forecited : and though i count mr m. far from arminianism , yet i again say , the speeches he used do symbolize with their language . mr. b. adds , he that will deny reprobates to be so far within the covenant of grace , must not onely deny infant-baptism , but all sacraments , till he be able infallibly to discern a man to be elect . and doubtless this interest in the covenant is ● fruit of christs death . answer . i deny not but reprobates may be in the covenant of grace in this sense , they may have it tendred to them by the preachers of the gospel , they may accept of that tender with half an heart , they may think themselves to be in it , they may by baptism engage themselves to believe unto the death , they may be received into the church , deemed to be really in the covenant of grace ▪ but it is not true that god ever made the new covenant to or with them , or that christ as a mediator brought them into the covenant of grace● or was surety of them , or that god afforded them for a time the favour of being in covenant with him . and though i deny not that it is a fruit of christs death , that whosoever believeth on him should live , yet that this is not obtained for the reprobate , but the elect ; nor a part by it self , but together with this , that he should gather into one the children of god that were scattered abroad , john , . and that they which are called might receive the promise of eternall inheritance , heb. . . nor need i by these assertions of mine deny baptism or the lords supper to any man till i be able to discern him infallibly to be a man elect . for i have warrant to baptize him if he shew by his profession that he is a disciple of christ , and though i knew infallibly he were one of those whom god would save , and had promised saving grace to him , and in that sense were in the covenant of grace , yet for the present not a d●sciple , i should justifiably refuse to baptize him . and this is a sufficient plea why we baptize not infants of believers , because they are not then disciples , no not though it could be proved god had promised to be their god. mr. b. adds , mr t. one day in the pulpit in pleading that the covenant belonged onely to the elect , was pleased to bring me in as witnessing thereto , in the append . of my aphor. pag. . because i there say , that the absolute promise , or prophesie there mentioned is made onely to the elect ; when yet onely the very scope of the place is to prove that it is not the absolute promise that is most fitly called the covenant of grace . answer . my alledging mr bs words was right and pertinent : for they acknowledged the promise heb. . , to be absolute , and to the elect onely , which was enough for my purpose , and this the author of that episte calls the new covenant or testament , and however , mr bs conceit is i have proved before the holy ghost doth make it to be the covenant of god , and therefore i deem it fitly be called the covenant of grace , chusing to speak as the scripture speaks , rather than as mr b. conceives sittest . sect . xxxix . mr baxter hath not proved that the absolute promise or covenant is not it that i● sealed in baptism and the lords supper . he adds , but that this absolute promise , or covenant ( if you will call it so ) is not it that is sealed in baptism and the lords supper , i prove against mr t. thus , clearly . answer . he should prove nothing against me though he should prove neither the absolute nor conditional promise to be sealed in baptism and the lords supper . for though it be true , that in some sense i grant baptism and the lords supper to seal the covenant of grace , yet in the sense and to the purposes paedobaptists use to say the covenant is sealed by them , i reject it , and can freely yeild that the use uf baptism and the lords supper is not to seal gods covenant either absolute or conditionall to us , except by remote consequence , but to signifie our duty of engaging our selves to be christs disciples in baptism , and to remember his death in the lords supper . but mr bs dispute in this is against himself , in that his arguments will overthrow his own assertion of infant-baptism , and against his fellow paedobaptists , who make baptisme to seal the promise of regeneration from titus . , and the promise of being a god to abraham and his seed from gen. . . which the apostle rom. . , , . makes absolute , and appropriates to the elect . i need not cite again paedobaptists speeches , making baptism the seal of regeneration , and of the covenant , gen. . . having cited before , sect. , sundry , to wit , the assembly in the directory , mr m &c. in the assembly at westminster their confession of faith , chap. . baptism is ordained by jesus christ to be to the baptized a sign and seal of the covenant of grace , of his ingrafting into christ , of regeneration , of remission of sins , and of his giving up unto god through jesus christ to walk in newness of life . artic. of the church of england . baptism is a sign of regeneration or newness , whereby as by an instrument they that receive baptism rightly are graffed into the church , the promises of forgiveness of sin , and of our adoption to be the sons of god , by the holy ghost , are visibly signed and sealed . in the french confess . artic , . by baptism , as by a certain and stable seal , this promise is sealed , that chri●t will be to us sanctification and justification . in mr gatakers two books against dr davenant , there are so many passages out of the chiefest protestant writers which do make baptism the sign and seal of regeneration , and of the promise of it , that it would be tedious to transcribe them , i shall poynt at some pages wherein they may be found . discept . de vi bapt . infant . pag. , , , , ● . strict . in daven . ep. pag. , , . there is one passage which he cites often out of vorstius , that the gospel preachers are wont to acknowledge one onely generall effect of baptism , to wit , the sealing of a double saving grace promised in the gospel concerning the remission together and the purging out of sins by the blood and spirit of christ , which is by inward renovation , which is absolutely promised . yea mr gataker , a man deservedly much valued by mr b. discept . de bapt . infant . saith , that baptism doth equally if not primarily design internall renewing , regeneration , mortification , quickning , which in that sign are not onely most clearly shadowed , but also painted , both the thing it self doth lowdly speak , and the holy scripture doth most expressly , rom. . , . col. . , . t it . . eph. . and though all express not the sealing of regeneration alike by baptism , some placing it in the assuring to the conscience , some in the giving of title , some of regeneration already given , some of regeneration to be attained in time , yet all make i● the seal of that covenant wherein god promiseth it , and do commonly distinguish it from the lords supper , which they make the seal of growth as they do baptism , of new-birth and entrance into the church . so mr m. in his sermon , p. , . but let us hear what mr b. opposeth , ▪ that which is sealed to by the sacrament , is a proper covenant , having a restipulation on our parts as well as a promise on gods part . but an absolute promise is not a proper covenant with such a mutuall engagement , but properly a meer promise or prophesie , therefore it is not this absolute promise which is sealed by the sacraments . the major m. t. cannot deny ; for he pleaded it himself ●n the pulpit as a reason to prove that infants might not be baptized , because they could not engage themselves . and he brought that passage in my foresaid appendix , pag. . as attesting it , where i say it is a mutuall engaging sign or seal : as it is given it is gods seal , as it is accepted it is ours . and indeed the very definition of a proper covenant ( of which grotius de jure belli , and other lawyers , will inform you ) sheweth as much that it must be a mutuall engagement . now in that absolute promise [ i will take the hard heart out of their bodies &c. ] there is no such matter , but onely god telleth what he will do . answer . according to my own judgement i use not to te●m sacraments seals of the covenant , nor did i urge mr bs words otherwise than as an argument ad homin●m , to prove from his own words , that infants have not baptism rightly according to his own grants . . because there is no restipulation on infants part , therefore there is no covenant properly so called between god and them , and so baptism of infants is not a seal of a covenant , and consequently according to the supposition of paedobaptists , no sacrament . ▪ baptism is saith mr b. a mutuall engaging sign or seal , as it is given it is gods seal , as i● is accepted it is our : but in infant-baptism there is no mutuall engagement or signing . infants promise nothing , nor sign or accept of any thing , ergo infant-baptism is not , according to mr bs own grants , right ; nor are these objections avoided by saying the parents covenant for them : for neither is there any the least ground o● hint in scripture that for baptismall covenanting the parents covenant should go for the childs covenant , nor do in the practice of baptizing the parents restipulate though they declare their faith , and if they should promise or engage for the child , they should sin , and so should and have those that have promised as sureties the infant should believe and obey christ , which they have not been able to perform , but have taken on them christs prerogative , heb. . . nor is the baptism of the infant his sign or seal , he being meerly passive , as they say , and so doing no act , nor engaging thereby , and if the parent do engage for the child , the parent should be baptized for the child , if baptism be the baptized party his seal . but as i said , i do not call baptism a seal of the covenant , and therefore am not tied at all to answer this argument , except to shew the fuci●ity of it . for which end , . the mann●r of speech is liable to exception in the use of the term proper covenant ] which i imagine mr. b. useth unskilfully for properly so called . . there is no proof of the major , from this , that baptism or the sacrament is a mutuall engaging sign or seal . for that proves rather that baptism or the sacrament it self is a proper covenant , than that , that which is sealed by the sacraments is a proper covenant . . nor doth it follow , that if the very definition of a proper covenant be , that it must be a mutuall engagement , that which is sealed by the sacraments must be a proper covenant , but onely proves that upon supposition , that the covenant sealed to by the sacraments , must be a proper covenant , that then it must be with restipulation or mutuall engaging . . though lawyers do determine that a covenant properly so called , is a mutuall engagement , yet this proves not that which in scripture is termed the covenant which they say baptism seals , is such . yea , in all the places ( that i know ) where the covenant of grace is mentioned , there is no restipulation at all mentioned , neither gen. . nor jer. . nor luke . nor heb. & . but where there is a restipulation , it is rather the covenant of the law than of the gospel . . that which is a meer prophesie or promise , is as properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we translate covenant , as a mutuall engagement , as i shall shew hereafter against mr. bl. . nor do i know why that may not be a mutuall engagement if the absolute promise were sealed to by the sacrament as well as if the conditionall . for if the engagement in the conditionall covenant on gods part is , that if he believe he shall be justified ; and on mans part , that he will believe : or rather in baptism he testifies , he doth believe . the absolute promise is to give faith : is not god and man in like manner engaged by baptism in sealing this as well as the other ? . i know not how it can be truly said , that baptism as given is gods seal , and as accepted mans seal . for neither doth god give baptism to be accepted but his promise , nor is the baptized said to accept baptism , but the promise . nor is there any act of god which may be called his seal , but he covenants , and i presume they will not confound covenant and seal . . nor doth the infant accept , or seal , or engage , and therefore in infant-baptism there is no covenant or seal . by this description of mr. b. there should be a mutuall seal , and so a severall seal , and not baptism gods and mans seal too . for according to the manner of sealing covenants which are mutuall as the one party seals with his own seal , so the other party seals with his own distinct seal ; and so if baptism be gods seal , the party bap●ized should have another seal to signifie his engagement . . mr. b. tells me , that grotius de jure belli , and other lawyers will inform me , that the very definition of a proper covenant is , that it must be a mutuall engagement . but he doth not tell me where it is in grotius , nor in what other lawyer . i have lightly looked over the ● . chapter of the second book of grot. de jure belli ac pacis , which is , de promissis , and some other following , and find not that which mr. b. saith , but find ch . . sect . . that he determines that of an infant is no promise , because the use of reason is required to a promise , and therefore in infant-baptism there is no restipulation or mutuall engagement , and so no proper covenant by mr b. his doctrine . but what ever other lawyers say , i am mistaken if it be not usuall with the lawyers in conveyances to use this expression , that the seller is said to covenant to and with such a person , who makes no restipulation or reciprocall engagement . and both in the scottish covenant , and in our solemn league and covenant , i find covenanters engaged to do many things without any restipulation or reciprocall engagement , and therefore do not conceive it necessary to a covenant that it be a mutual engagement , or with restipulation . mr. b. adds , . if it were the absolute promise of the first grace that is sealed by the sacraments , then the sacraments must be given to no man , or to all men : but that is absurd , therefore so is the former . the consequent is manifest , because that absolute promise or prophesie is onely of the elect , and that before regeneration . now no man hath any sign given him , so much as probable by which to judge of the unregenerate elect , so that it must either be given to all or none . answer . the whole frame of this argument depends on these mistakes , . that a person hath title to baptism by vertue of its interest in gods covenant of grace , and that accordingly a minister is to baptize . . that a probable sign of such interest warrants the baptism of the party so interessed , which i have often proved to be false , and that nothing but manifest discipleship certainly known to the baptizer , warrants him to do it . and indeed if we must baptize according to that rule of persons interest in the covenant , probably signified . salvages in new england are to be baptized upon the probable signes they give of being wrought upon by a sermon afore they know and profess the faith of christ , and few or no infants are baptized , there being either no sign given to any man of their being in covenant , or at most but of very few of the baptized . mr. b. ap. to his aphor. p. . if a minister adventure to administer it upon probability , then should he be guilty of proph●ning the ordinance . . saith mr b. or we may argue thus : it may be known to whom that covenant belongs which is sealed by the sacraments . but it cannot be known ( before the fulfilling , no not at all ) to whom ( particularly ) that absolute promise doth belong ; therefore that abs●lut promise is not it which is sealed by the sacraments . answer . . by denying the major . . by retorting the argument thus , it may be known to whom that covenant belongs which is sealed by the sacraments : but it cannot be known ordinarily in this to whom ( particularly ) the conditionall promise of the covenant of grace belongs , for to none ( particularly ) besides the elect belongs the promise of justification , adoption and glorification . therefore the conditionall promise is not it which is sealed by the sacraments . . sai●h mr. b. if ( according to mr t. his judgement ) that absolute promise must be fulfilled to a man before he be capable of receiving the sacraments which are seals of the covenant of grace , then is it not that absolute promise which is the covenant of grace sealed to by the sacraments : but according to mr. t. his judgment ) that absolute promise must be fulfilled to a man before he be capable of ( a right ) receiving the sacraments , which are seals of the covenant of grace : therefore it is not that absolute promise which is the covenant so sealed to . the antecedent is evident , ●f you consider , . that it is the promise of the first renewing grace which we speak of ( for all after grace is promised conditionally ) . that mr. t. pleadeth that believers onely are disciples , and such disciples onely must be baptized . . that faith is a part of this first grace abs●lutely promised ( as is commonly judged ) the giving of a new soft heart , is the giving the seed of all graces , and so of faith . the consequence is evident , because the mercy promised in the covenant which is sealed , is not given before the first sealing : but the mercy promised in that absolute promise is ( according to mr. t. and in part the truth ) given before the first sealing of the covenant of grace ; therefore , &c. god doth not promise a seal to a man that hath a new heart to give him a new heart , or to a man that is a believer , that he will give him to be a believer ; except we speak of the continuance or increase of faith and newnesse which is not the thing in question . answer . the consequence of this argument may be denied , and the reason of it also : for according to the apostle , abraham received the sign of circumcision , a seal of the righteousnesse of faith , which he had yet being uncircumcised ; rom ▪ . if then the sealing of the covenant of grace by baptism be the same with the sealing of the righteousness of faith by circumcision , rom. . ( which is the common tenent of many paedobaptists , who from this text draw a definition of sacraments , though falsly , as is shewed before ) then the mercy promised in the covenant which is sealed , is given before the first sealing . yea , if the conditionall covenant be sealed to believers now , justification which is the mercy promised in the covenant which is sealed ▪ is given before the first sealing . for a man is justified actually as soon as ever he believes , as i am confident mr. b will grant : bu● he is not regularly baptized till after his believing , therefore a believer is justified , and consequently the mercy promised in the first covenant which is sealed , is given before the first sealing , that all after grace is promised conditionally , is said by mr. b. without proof , and how inconsistent it is with the promises of perseverance , how much it undermines the doctrine of the saints perseverance , how it disables the godly to plead the promises , and takes away their comforts when they are sensible of their f●i●ings , if the after graces of recove●y after fal●s , and perseverance to the end , be promised condi●ionally , i need no● shew it here , ●i●h dr. owen hath done it amply in his treatise of perseverace , ch . ▪ , &c. dr. kendall in his sancti sanciti , ch . . and wou●d be here a digressi●n ▪ . saith mr. b. the benefits of the covenant of grace which are sealed by the sacraments , are ( by those of age ) to be received by faith . but the benefits of the absolute promise of the first grace are not to be received by faith : therefore this is not the covenant of grace so sealed . the major is evident : mr. t. saith , onely believers must be baptized as disciples : the minor is proved before . faith is part of the thing promised , and we do not by faith receive our first faith , or our power to believe . answer . it is not i onely , but mr. b. himself , who speaks in effect what i say , plain script . pr●of , &c. pag. , ● . of the first edition when he saith , that in the insti●ution , and every example of baptism through all the bible , the first grace is prerequisite as a condition , is undeniable , as might be manifest by a recitall of the particular texts could we stay so long upon it . john required a profession of repentance in those he baptized . jesus first made them disciples , and then by his apostles baptized them , john . . the solemn institution of it as a standing ordinance to the church , which tells us fully the end is in matth . , . go and disciple me all nations , baptizing them ; &c. now for the aged , a disciple and a believer are all one , mark . he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , acts . . repent and be bap●ized every one , &c. they that gladly received his word were baptized , acts . , . the samaritans believed and were baptized both men and women . simon himself believed and was baptized , acts . , . if thou believest with all thy heart thou maist ( be baptized ) and he answered , i believe , &c. paul believed upon ananias instruction , and then was bapt●zed , acts . , . & . , . & . . & . , , &c. you see it is still required , that at all age do first believe and then be baptized . i acknowledge he puts in these words [ for the aged at all age ] by which he would prevent the inference from his own words against infants baptism , intimating that there are an institution and examples of infant baptism elsewhere . but this is but a vain caution , when his own proposition is , that in the institution & every example of baptism through all the bible , the first grace ( to wit faith ) is prerequisite as a condition , is undeniable . so that which he intimates in his caution , is contradictory to himself , and a palpable falshood , there being no other institution or example of baptism to any but disciples or believers in all the bible ; and therefore baptism of infants who are not believers or disciples , is a manifest abuse , deviation from christ and his apostles appointment and practice , by mr. b. his own words , and consequently will-worship and profanation of that ordinance . as for the present objection , i deny the major if it be universall , though mr. b. saith , it is evident , but proves it not , nor doth any concession prove i● . for though i grant persons are to be believers afore baptism , yet it doth not follow that the benefits of the covenant of grace , which is sealed by the sacraments , are to be receiv●d by fa●th , and not before . it is mr. b. his mistake , that the promise to which there is sealing , must be fulfilled af●er and not before . the contrary is manifest in abrahams circumcision , in baptism as i shewed before , and in the lords supper . for even in that very instant of mr. b. plain script proof , &c. pag. . to prove the sacrament to be a mutuall engaging sign , when he saith , receiving the elements is ●ur engaging sign , that we receive jesus christ to be our onely saviour and lord ; as giving is gods si●n that he giveth us christ : the sealing on the part of the receiver is to a thing fulfi●led , that he receives christ , and of the giver that he gives him . . saith mr. t. the covenant sealed by the sacrament , is a plainly propounded unquestion●ble covenant : but this absolute promise of the first grace is not such but very dark and doubtfull ( and the most learned cannot agree whether there be any such thing : ) ●herefore , &c. i have spoken my judgment of this in the appendix of my aphorisms . the places alledged to prove an absolute promise of the first grace , some learned divines i say do not prove it ; because he new and soft heart there mentioned , may be a further degree of newness and sof●ness , or though there be no condition there expressed , yet it is in other places , and therefore to be so understood there : to which end they cite deut. ● ▪ where god promiseth the very same blessing ( to circumcise their hearts that they may love the lord , &c. ) on a condition which is here thought to be promised absolutely . mr. t. could not understand mr. blake about this . answer . if mr ▪ b. mean by unquestionable covenant , that which no learned man hath questioned , the major is false , and must be revoked by mr. b. if he will maintain the conditionall covenant to be sealed to by the sacrament , for that hath been questioned by learned men ; who have denied the covenant of grace to be conditionall , and they think this to be a very good proof , that the holy scripture where it speakes of the new covenant , mentions the promises without condition . if he mean unquestionable de jure , which ought not to have been questioned , and which though it seem dark and doubtfull to some , yet is plainly propounded by god , and is in it self perspicuous ; the minor is false . as for what divines say , it little moves , when the scripture opposeth the new spirit and soft heart to a strong heart , as being in them before , and to which the new spirit , new heart of flesh , succeed . ezek. . . & ● , ▪ not to a lesse new or fleshly heart . and if elsewhere conditions be put and not there , the promises in those places are not proved conditionall , though to me the coditions deut. . ; , seem not to be of the promise , v. . but of the promise v. . i do not value mr. b. his judgement so much as to be drawn by it any farther than his reasons carry me , which , i take it , are the same in his appendix , with these in his mock-titled book which i have answered . i give mr baxter our new doctor sub●ilis , leave to quip me with my dulness in being grown such an old superannuated dotard , as that i could not understand mr blake , time was when i thought i could have understood as profound a doctor , but now i am content not to understand such deep notions , i should say non-sense as these ▪ disciple all , covenant all , &c : i hope i shall have by divine assistance , so much understanding as to demonstrate the frivolousness of those dictates in mr blakes and mr baxters writings , whereby they have befooled the men of this age , and my strange and wild doctrine , as mr b. calls it , will supplant mr b. his familiar and tame doctrine , without speaking like mr sal●marsh and the antinomians , and my speech about mr m , will be justified after the clearing my self from the fourth imagined error , to which i now hast . sect . xxxv . my speeeh about gods sealing to none but believers , is cleared from mr baxters objections . mr b. plain scripture , &c. pag . calls it my fourth error that i affirm in my apolog. pag. , . that every right administration of baptism is not gods sealing . actually it sealeth not but when it is administred to a believer . it may be called a right act of the administrator according to gods appointment , but not gods sealing , &c. and for confutation saith thus . it must be understood that our question is not about the internall seal of the spirit , but onely the externall seal of the sacrament , which are two distinct things . the nature of this seal , and whether it seal conditionally or absolutely , i have fully opened in the appendix of my aphorisms of justification , whither i must desire the reader to turn and read it , ●o save me the labor of doing it here . answer . that these imagined errors of mine about the nature of the covenant and seals are not the root of my pretended error about baptism , is abundantly shewed before ; and it hath been often affirmed by me , that the reason of my opposing infant-baptism is , because it agrees not with the institution and e●amples of baptism ( which mr b : his words cited in the next section before verifie ) in the holy scripture , and the arguments from the covenant and seal , and the pretended law of visible church-membership , no way extant unrepealed , of which the apostles practice shewes they were ignorant , though many godly and learned men have embraced them , are meerly an humane invention ▪ that there is no error of mine in what i hold about the covenant , much lesse dangeeous error , is already shew ; i shall now shew the subtilty of mr b : his arguings against my speech about gods sealing . according to his direction i have read over his sayings in his appendix in answer to the ninth question , and what mr blake excepted against him , and his reply to mr blake in his apologie , sect , &c. and the issue of my thoughts in this , . that there is nothing but jangling and uncertainty in their debates about the imaginary sealing by the sacrament , it being not agreed what is sealed , the outward or inward covenant , what is the syllogism , whose parts are to be sealed , or what part thereof is to be sealed , the major , minor , or conclusion , nor how ●t is sealed conditionally or absolutely , actually or aptitudinally , nor to whom the sealing is , whether to every communicant or onely to penitent believers . and in my reading of other authors● i find much uncertainty in their determinations about this pretended sealing , and the thing sealed , which i have briefly touched before . mr. humphrey in his rejoynder to dr. drake , part . . sect. , . part . . sect. , . tells us , that in the nature of it the sacrament is gods seal onely , not metaphorically or tropically , but formally , not a seal of our faith but of gods assuring the tenor of it , not onely mans particular interest absolutly , but conditionally to all , and that as well the threatning of condemnation in c●se of unbelief , as the promise of righteousness in case of faith , the receiver of the sacrament seals not by way of assuring , or conveying , but engagement ●o the condition on his part yet not in esse , but in fieri agreeing to the terms of christ pr●posed , expecting salvation if ever he have grace to perform his engagements , and yeildeth to be damned if not . . that the dig●adiations of pae●obaptists one against another , are by gods just judgement usefull to shew their iniquity in ●ressing o●hers to subscribe to their dictates , which they oppose one anoth●r in . . that they do evidently prove that the argument is not good which th●y b●ing for infant-baptism to prove their covenant-right to the seal . for if infants be onely in the outward covenant , and baptism seal another covenant , then title to this seal comes not by bare interest in that . if it be a mutuall engaging seal , then it is no seal of an infant who doth not ingage ; if it seal the condi●ional covenant , and it belongs to all , then all may be sea●ed , if covenant interest intitle to the seal , if baptism seal absolutely to none till he beli●ve , then baptism is no compleat seal , and so no sacrament to a man till he believe ; if it seal the threatning as well as the promise , th●n those sh●uld have the sacrament to whom the threatning belongs , as well as those to whom the promise ; if it seal absolutely onely gods generall truth , then it seals nones particular interest , and then none can claim title to it . . that most of their speeches are meer dictates without shew of proof , and that from the metaphor of the seal of the covenant , which the scripture no where useth , and mr b. thinks it the way to lose our selves and not to edifie , to make it the subject of tedious disputations , and to lay too great a stress on it . as for what he wisheth me in his apol. against mr. bl. sect. . to take notice of it , i reply to what he saith against my distinction of actuall & aptitudinal seal , i think it not worth while to reply to it , si●h i used that distinction onely to shew how bellarmin might be answered without mr bl●kes way of conditionall seal : it is little material whether the sacrament be called a seal actuall or aptitudinall , or no seal at all , the explication of my meaning before given is enough to justifie my words against any thing mr b. hath or can object . as for that which he saith , that the question is not about the internall seal of the spirit , but onely the externall seal of the sacrament , which are two distinct things , i answer , the question is about my words whether they be true , which deny that god sealeth in every right administration of baptism , and affirm that he sealeth not but when it is admistred to a believer : and though it be true the seal of baptism and the spirit be two distinct things , yet i say god never sealeth by baptism without the spirit , nor can baptizing without the sealing of the spirit be rightly according to scripture language and truth , called gods sealing . let 's see what mr. b. opposeth . his opinion i prove unsound , thus , . if the sacrament rightly administred to an hypocrite , have all in it that is essentiall to gods actuall sealing , then it is his actuall sealing , &c. but , &c. therefore , &c. a seal is an engaging or obliging sign , or at least a testifying . he that actually useth a sign to such an end , doth actually seal . now . god useth this sign . . and to this end . he useth the sign while his ministers use it in his name at his command ; for immediatly he never useth or applyeth it to any . . he commandeth it to be used to this end , to engage himselfe to make good his promises . for . to what other end should god command them ? else he should command them to be used to one end to one , and to another end to another , which cannot be shewed that he hath done , ( i speake of the end of the ordinance , not of the event which god hath decreed shall follow . ) answer . the minor of this argument is denied . and to the proof i say , . that it is not alwayes true , that he that actually useth a sign to such an end , doth actually seal . for if actuall sea●ing be actuall assuring ●as it is conceived to be 〈◊〉 rom. . . whence this phrase is taken ) the actuall sealing must be denominated , not onely from the end but also from the event , as if god use a sign to comfort , he doth not actually comfort except the person be comforted . . that it is not universally true , that god useth the sign while his ministers use it in his name at his command , but then when they represent his person . as for instance , when aaron offered sacrifice , burned incense , &c. which were to signifie christ , they did these things in gods name , that is , to his honor , at his command , yet i do not conceive it can be said that god did offer sacrifice or burn incense . and for baptism , though i confesse it is commanded by god to be done by his ministers , and that it is to be done into his name , yet it is no where intimated as if they did it in stead of god , or christ , as their act . . but let it be granted that baptism done right●y according to gods command by his ministers , is his act ; how is it proved that it is used by god to this end ▪ to engage himself to make good his promises ? for my part i read not any where in scripture , that god used baptism for this end , to engage himself to make good his promises , nor doth mr. b. prove that end by any passage of scripture . and to his reasons i answer , . to the first , though neither i nor mr. b. know any orher end , yet doth not this prove , that that is the end . besids , if i should assign no other end , yet it were enough to answer mr. b. his question to say , it is to try obedience , as in abrahams offering his son . but mr. b. might easily know if he would heed the scripture , that there are other ends of god in commanding baptism ; to wit , the owning of christ as our lord , cor. . . gal. . joyning all christians into one body , cor. . . ephes. . · the , and atricle of the curch of england acknowledge this to be one end of baptism , to be a sign of profession , and to be a mark of difference of christians from others . to the second , though it were granted to be absurd , that god should command the sacraments to be used to one end to one , and to another end to another , yet this doth no whit prove that this is the end which mr. b ▪ assigns for the fore-going reasons . yet sure if infant-baptism were granted , baptism must needs be to one end , to wit , a sign of profession to the aged , which it is not , nor can be to an infant . lastly if it yeelded that the end of baptism were to engage god to make good his promisses , it is a good argument against mr. b. t●at god seals not actually to an hyppocrite , sith he doth not promise , and co●sequently not to engage himselfe , by the s●crament to make good his promise unto them . but mr. b. adds thus . . if the promise be to o●hers besides believers , then so is the seal ( for to whom god promiseth , to them he engage●h himselfe to performe , but the promise is to others therefore &c. this will be evident if it be once understood that it is only the conditional promise which sealeth by the sacraments [ if thou believe in the lord iesus thou shalt be saved ] ▪ for this promise is made to unbelievers , though the good promised is not to be enjoyed by any ●hat performe not the condition . thus i have fully proved in the foresaid appendix to my aphorisms : and will fall under the next question . answer : i read , tha● to abraham & his seed were the promises made or said , gal. . . that the promise through the faith of christ might be given to them that believe v. . jf ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed & heires according to the promise v. . whereby are given unto us exceeding great & pretious promises pet. ▪ . the children of the promise are counted for the seed rom. . . strangers from the covenants of promise ephes. . . but this is to use mr. b. his own words of my doctrine , str●ng and wild dostrine to say that god promises to unbelievers , the promise of salvation is made to unbelievers , that to them he engageth himselfe to performe : nor do i see how he can avoid antinomianism , which he so much abhors , to wit the justification of infidels , if i● be true , that this promise is made to unbelievers . nor is he relieved by saying , the promise is made to them though the good promised is not to be enjoyed , for what is this but to say the promise is made to them by god , but not performed , which is to make god false ? nor is he relieved by saying it is made conditionally only to unbelievers ( if thou believe thou shalt be justified . ) for this is equivalent to this he that bel●eveth shall be justified , and so the promise is made only to the believer : though it may be said to be offered , tendered , propounded as a law , or ordinance of god to unbelievers . yet neither scripture language , nor any other approved au●hors speech , will i concieve warrant this speech , god promiseth , engageth himself to performe , this pormise ( of salvation , justification , ) is made to unbelievers . as for his dictates in his appendix , and the next question , the futility of them is already shewed . he goes on thus . . if god do no more in his actual calling to believers , than he doth when the sacrament is rightly applied to hypocrites , then he actually sealeth to hypocrites . the major is proved by the enumeration on the severall acts . . god maketh the promise . . he commandeth ministers to publish it . . he hath instituted the sacraments as mutual engaging signes or seals . he commandeth ministers to deliver or apply them to those that profess their consent , and desire to enter or renew the covenant , ( this i need not stand to prove , beeing mr. t. here yeildeth that the giving of the sacrament is the right act of the administrator , which it could not be except it were commanded ) as also the initiating seal to the children of those believing parents that will enter him into the covenant , as is proved before . now what act more than these doth god performe to the elect or believers . answ. it was assayed to be proved before , but not proved that god commandeth ministers to deliver or apply the lords supper to them that desire to renew their covenant , or baptism to believers infant children ; what i said of the right act of the administrator i spake perticularly of baptism . nor is it true that god maketh promise to hypocrits , or commandeth ministers to publish it , and how is it from scripture speech , or truths to say , god hath instituted the sacraments as mutual engaging signs or seals , and how destructive this is to infant baptism is shewed before . to this puestion , i answer , the witness of the spirit is a further act of god necessary to his sealing as i meant my words , and express my self in my postscript . sest : . pag . what saith mr. b. to this ? jf it be said that he add the seal of his spirit ; that is nothing to the question , seeing we are speaking only of the outward seal . answ. though mr. b. spake only of the outward seal , yet he should have spoken of the inward also . if he would have opposed my saying , he should have proved that god actually seals by the outward sacrament without the inward testimony of the spirit , till then , he spake nothing to the question . but saith he . jf it be said that he assureth the conscience of the truth of the promise , and maketh the outward seal effectual . i answ. . that is still the inward seal , and so nothing to this . answ. he should rather have said it is all in all to this , sith my words denie gods actual sealing withou● ▪ . that is the making of the seal successful , which is nothing to the sealing : if you seal a deed of gift to three men and one believeth it , and another doth not believe it , and another doth half believe it , yet this doth not make it no sealing to him that believeth not ; you seal equally to them all . answ. . however it be in mens sealing , yet gods actual sealing is still effectual , they seal only to the eye , he to the heart , cor. . , . . he makes no deed of gift but to believers , nor seals to any but them ephes. . . and ● . . rom. . . and . , . . and god doth not alwayee assure the elect or believers , but they oft conclude hardlyer against themselves than others do that have . so that i desire mr. t to produce any one act which god performes to believers , and not to others , which may appropriate the name of sealing to them . answ. though god do not alwayes actually seal to believers , yet this doth neither prove that his actually sealing is uneffectual , nor to any others . mr. b. hath answere to his demand , and were it not that i much pitty the souls of many ministers and poeple who are by this notion of [ seal of the covenant of grace ] partly perverted to uphold and continue as manifest a corruption as ever was in the christian church , i mean infant-baptism , being by all , most by mr. b. confessed to be without institution and example in bible , parly perplexed about delivering and recieving the lords-supper , it would much trouble me that i have spent so much time de lanâ caprinâ , a new devised notion ▪ but overshooes over boots , i must needs add few lines more in answer to mr. b. whose page ● saith thus . and by this the former question about sealing conditionally may be decided : which mr. t. darkneth with a m●ze of words ; and addeth [ that god seals not conditionally in this sense , as if he left it to a mans liberty to whome he had sealed to agnize or recognize that sealing or to free themselves if they please , and so nullifie all : yet so as to afford them awhile the favour and privileige of being in covenant with him , which mr. m. he concieves meant by his conditional sealing ] heare are more things heapt up , then will be satisfied in one answer : therefore i say . it is improperly called liberty of the will which consists in an indifferency to good or evils as gibeouf and bradwardin &c. will teach you . . more improp●rly is the nullif●ing of the covenant called a freeing themselves which is an enslaving themselves . . and the violating of the covenant is not fitly called a nullifying of it . . yet if you will needs use those terms ; i say that god sealeth the conditional promise to thousands that shall perish , and le●veth it to their own choise , whether they will recognize and continue , and be faithfull to the covenant ( giving them onely the common grace : ) which men do prove unfaithful to , & break the covenant , and so p●rish for treading the blood of the covenant under foot . and doth mr. t. thinke that no wicked men perish as covenant-breake●s with christ ? answer . i am so used to mr. b. his snarling at me , that i think it not worth while to take notice of all the noise he makes , and methinks a wise reader should be no whit moved with these frivolous accusations of me , as darkning the thing with a maze of words ( which is a pretty phrase ) which are very few and very plain , intimating as if ▪ i would needs use those terms though improperly , which were used of necessity when i was to set down m m. his meaning , not as mine , but his , even his very expressions , except it be to observe the quarrelsom vein he was in when he wrot that book against me . if the expression be not proper , let him blame mr. m. yet let it be observed , that the speech of the nullifying the covenant , was neither mine nor mr. ms , but nullifying all , which is to be understood of the sealing and priviledge mentioned . as for his reference of me to gibeo●f and bradwardin to shew the impropriety of the use of the term [ liberty ] i am not likely to be taught by them , except i had the books ( one of which i have lost by the plunder of above three hundred bookes never recovered ) and mr. b. had given me better directions where to find my lesson . i conceive it liberty of will properly so called , whereby men are moved to chuse evill , though the persons be in a state of servitude , john . . else it were not penall to chuse evill . and for what mr. b asserts , i have shewed before that gods covenant of grace is neither made nor sealed by god to any but the elect ; and i say , that though wicked men may perish as covenant-breakers with christ , that is , as breaking their own covenant or promise with christ , yet no man ever breaks the covenant of grace , that is gods new covenant or promise of saving grace in christ , it being the very end of the making of the new covenant , that whereas the old occasioned god to complain of israel as not continuing in it , there might be another covenant established or made a law on better promises , that it might be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we read faultless , but more rightly plaintless , that is , not occasioning god to complain by reason of the breach of it , as the author to the hebrews plainly shews , heb. . , , , , , &c. and this is expressly called gods covenant to turn away ungodliness from jacob , rom. . , . so that to deny the promise of the first grace of regeneration , conversion , or effectuall calling to be properly gods covenant of grace , and to make a conditionall after to be gods covenant of grace , and to say gods covenant of grace may be broken , and persons with whom it is made not continue therein , is to alter or deny the new covenant , and to make voyd the grace of god and the comfort of his people , and to my understanding to symbolize with arminians . mr. b. adds , . it is unworthily said , that god affordeth these but a while the favour and priviledge of being in covenant with him , seeing it is their own wilfull act to cast themselves out of this priviledge ; they might have continued it , and proceeded further in it if they would . answer . i agree that it is unworthily said ; but by this censure though he aim at me , yet heedlesly he hits mr. m , whose speech this was . but whoever be in the fault , it seems while the rod is in mr. b. his hand , i must be lashed . yet mr. b. his reason is so far from proving it unworthily said , that it seems rather to be worthily said , that god affords them but a while the favour of being in covenant with him , sith it is their own wilfull act to cast themselves out i rather think it unworthily said , because god should fail them to perform his covenant of putting his fear into their heart , so as that they shall not depart from him ; nor his covenant be everlasting contrary to jer. . . . saith mr. b. yet withall we affirm , that to his elect god freely giveth , as leave , so a will to enter sincerely into covenant with him , and faithfully to keep covenant , and so the continuance of the priviledges of the covenant answer . if mr. b. had as the scripture doth , ascribed this to gods covenant , and understood the difference between the covenant of grace under the gospel , and the nationall covenant made with the people of israel , much of the opposition between us had been saved . but sith things are as they are , i am resolved with gods assistance to try his strength in what is yet unanswered of his second main argument , after i have examined the remainder of what paedobaptists say after the old way of arguing from covenant and seal . sect . xxxvi . christianity is not by birth , or the church , nor the church at civill corporations , as mr. m. his equivocation in the use of the term covenant of grace . i return now to mr. m. whom i meet in his defence , pag . passing over my six arguments , and thus answering me , i joyn with you that it is an error to say , that all infants of believers indefinitely are under the saving graces of the covenant , for although i find abundance of promises in the scripture , of gods giving saving grace unto the posterity of his people , and that experience teacheth us , that god uses to continue his church in their posterity , and that gods election is more among their seed than others , yet neither to jew nor gentile was the covenant so made at any time , that the spirituall part and grace of the covenant should be conferred upon them all . which if true , then all have not interest in the saving grace of the covenant , but so many as are elect , and then the baptisme of them all cannot be deduced thence : and for the conditionall covenant , it is either to all , or believers onely , and baptism by it must be of all men or onely believers . and for a third covenant , which they call outward , mr. baxter against mr. blake , pag. , , and elsewhere before cited , hath proved it to be a signment , and consequently there is no such to be sealed by baptism which may justifie baptizing of believers infants , as their priviledge . nor , if the covenant of saving grace be not made to all believers seed , can the certainty of their salvation , dying in infancy , be thence gathered , nor is the promise of salvation made to a believer and his seed universally , then is the anabaptists sentence no more bloody than mr. ms , then do mr bailee and others , in pri , nt and pulpit clamorously abuse them , accusing them of cruelty to infants of believers , & robbing parents of comfort concerning them , when in truth we are as favourable in our sentence of infants as they , and do give as much comfort as we truly can . as for the visible membership which he ascribes to infants of believers in the christian church , it will appear to be but a fancy in the examining what mr. b. brings for it . i objected , that if the child of a christian be a christian , then christians are born christians , not made christians ; whereas it was wont to be a current saying , christiani non nascuntur sed fiunt . and if the covenant of grace be a birth-priviledge , how are they children of wrath by nature ? to this mr. m. answers , it is his birth-right to be so esteemed , to be reputed within the covenant of grace , or a member of the visible church , and alledgeth , gal. . . rom. . . naturall branches , that is visible church-members . to which i say , were i to write as a geographer , i should reckon the people of england old and young for christians , but as a divine i should not so speak : forasmuch as the scripture no where calls any other christians than disciples and professors of christianity , acts , . & , . pet. . . the term [ jew by nature , gal. . . ] is not as much as visible church-member by nature , but by natural birth of that nation : nor is the term [ naturall branch , rom. . . ] as much as visible church-members by nature , but onely descendents as branches from abraham the root , that is the father by naturall generation . to be a visible church-member i never took to be all one with ; to be in the covenant of grace , but to be in the covenant of grace to be the same with a child of the promise , which is expressly contra-distinguished to a child of the flesh , rom. . . the distinction of the outward and inward covenant is shewed before to be vain , and to serve onely for a shift . i said in my examen christianity is no mans birth-right , and this i proved in that no where in scripture is a person called christian , but he that is so made by preaching . i said , it is a carnall imagination , that the church of god is like to civill corporations , as if persons were admitted to it by birth , which my words shew to be meant of the church of christians invisible , as well as visible : nor is it to the purpose to prove the contrary that mr. m. tells me , the jewish church was in that like civil corporations . for i grant it was , the whole nation being the same politick and ecclesiastick body , but this church-state was carnall as their ordinances ▪ whereas the christian church hath another constitution by preaching the gospel . mr. m. his cavill at my words , [ in this all is done by free election of grace ] had been prevented , if the following words had been recited and according to gods appointment : nor is god tied , or doth tie himself in the erecting and propagating his church to any such carnall respects , as discent from men , christianity is no mans birth right . ] mr. m. shews not that god hath made it so in his christian church by any ordinance , that the child should be baptized with the parent , and therefore the objection still stands good . the speech of mr. rutherf●rd ▪ are mr. cotton . and not to be reconc●led without making contradictories true . my answer bea●s not against the reason of the holy ghost gen. . . nor is it true but that the holy-ghost makes this his argument why he would have the male children circumcised , and thereby reckon'd to be in covenant with him , because their parents are in covenant with him , but it is refused by m's . own concession pag. . that the command was the formal reason of their being circumcised . yet this was not it which i called a carnal imagination , but the speech that it is in the church of god as in civil corporations . mr. m. pag. takes upon him to defend his speech , that in the time of the jewes , if god did reject the parents out of the covenant , the children were cast out with them . against which i excepted that parents might be idolatries , apostates from iudaism , draw up the foreskin again , and yet the children were to be circumcised , which he denies not but saith , is it not evident in the iewes at this day , that they and their children are cast out together . i grant this , but this doth not make good his own assertion or overthrow mine . then he tels me , if i would shew the falsity of it i should have given some instance ; not of parents , who remain gods people in external profession , though their lives might possibly be very wicked , but of some who were cast off from being visible professors , and yet their infants remain in the visible society of the church , or of some who were visibly thus taken in , and their infants left out . answ. if he meanes this of the christian church it is easie to give instances of infants of those who have turned papists ▪ mahometans , excommunicate persons , who are accounted baptiz●ble by vertue of their ancestors faith , or for defect thereof because nation●s ●s mr. rutherfurd affirms in his temperate plea ch . . concl . . arg . · but mr. m. his speech was of the time of the iewes , and of their times before christ he must needs say the same ●●less he will acknowledg idolaters such as ahab , ahaz , &c. to have remained still gods people in external profession . he concluds the reply to the fift section of my examen thus , but instead of this you still go on in your wonted equivocation of the word covenant of grace taking it only of the covenant of saving grace , not including the external way of administration with it . answ. i do confess i do so take the word covenant of grace , not knowing any other covenant of grace under the gospel ▪ but that which is of saving grace and concieving i should speak false , and nonsense if i should include in the covenant of grace the external way of administration . but to charge me with wanted equivocation whom he accuseth elswhere for destinguishing so much , and equivocating in the use of a terme only one way ●s a ridiculous charge , it being all one as to accuse a man of nonsense because he speaks good sense , to say i do equivocate because i do not equivocate . for he that useth a word onely in one sense doth not aquivocate , equivocation being when a word is used in more senses than one . falla●ia aquivocationis est quando ex unius vocis multiplici fignificatione sophisticè concluditur . dr. prideaux hypomn . log : tract : . c. . sect. . arist : sophist : ele●ch . l. . c. . reckons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or equivocation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when with the same names and vowels we signifie not the same thing . which evidently proves mr ▪ m. guilty of equivocating from his own words . for in the first conclusion of his sermon he distinguisheth the covenant of grace for substance ( which he makes the covenant of saving grace ) from the externall way of administration , and yet blames me for not including it . and if he by covenant of grace include the way of externall administra●ion , how could he say in his sermon , pag. . in the recapitulation of his two first conclusions , if the covenant be the same , and the children belong to it . sure he will not say the way , of externall administration is the same : wherefore from his own words he is deprehended to equivocate in the term covenant of grace , in the first conclusion meaning by it the covenant of saving graces , and distinguishing it from the externall administration , but in the second conclusion when he saith , children belong to it , he understands not the inward but the outward covenant , not the covenant of saving grace , bu● the way of externall administration . and yet he dare not say , the ●nfant children of gentile christian believers belong to it , that is the same way of externall administration , for that is in the jewish legall rites . asemblys confess . of faith , chap. . art. . therefore he sophistically equivocates in the use of that term , which is his frequent manner , and yet he is not ashamed to accuse me of that , of which his own words acquit me , as if he had learned the artifice in scolding to call another that first of which himself might be detected . nor is mr. m. clear from equivocating in what follows , in which i find mu●h confusednesse and ambiguity . chap. xxxvii . that the promise gen. . . proves not an externall priviledge of visible church-membership , and initiall seal to infants of gentile believers , as mr. m. asserts after twenty pages spent about the explication of his second conclusion , having varied it five or six times , and as i have shewed in every of them still speaking ambiguously even then when he tells us , he speaks as plain as he can possibly , i pitch upon this which is pag. . as his second conclusion , having said , infants of believers are made free according to abrahams copy , he thus expounds himself , true , according to the promise made to abraham , i will be a god to thee and thy seed , that look as abraham , the proselytes and their seed upon their visible owning of god and his covenant , had this visible priviledge for their posterity that they should be accounted to belong to gods kingdom and houshold with their parents , so it is here . by which words it appears , thar mr. m. took this to be abrahams copy ( as he calls it , that according to the promise made to abraham , i will be a god to thee and thy seed , abraham and his seed , the proselytes and their seed upon their ( the parents ) visible owning of god and his covenant , had this visible priviledge for their posterity , that they should be accounted to belong to godt kingdom and houshold with their parents . . that so it is in the christian church by vertue of that promise i will be thy god and the god of thy seed , gen. . ▪ gentile believers upon their visibly owning of god and his covenant , have this visible priviledge for their posterity , that they should be accounted to belong to gods kingdom and houshold with their parents . concerning which conclusion i say still mr. m. useth ambiguities of speech , there being divers covenants of god , to wit , the old and the new , and divers wayes of visibly owning god , as by sacrificing , circumcision , &c. by baptism , the lords supper , frequenting the church meetings of christians , &c. divers kingdoms and housholds of god , as the whole world , and his church , the visible or invisible , which might occasion various senses of mr. m. his words . but i ghesse his meaning to be thus ; as the jewes and proselytes being circumcised , their children were to be so also : so gentile-believers being baptized , their children are to be baptized as visible church-members ; which being the same with the antecedent of mr. m. his enthymeme , and the consequent , it is evident mr. m. his argument is a meer trifling tau●ology , as i have often said . but i shall not insist on it , having in my apologie , sect. . and elswhere shewed it , that which i shall consider chiefly in his glosse on gen. ● . . which to me seems as ( or more ) absurd than the glosse of papists , thou art peter , and on this rock will i build my church : i. e. the bishop of rome shall be my vicar generall of the oecumenicall church . for . according to mr. m. his glosse , [ thee , that is , abraham , to whom the words were spoken ] is put for without all rule of grammar or divinity , or as they speak in logick supponit by [ every jew , or proselyte , and every believer or christian jew or gentile , who doth not visibly own god and his covenant . ] . according to this glosse the naturall seed of proselytes though but visibly owning god and his covenant , are called abrahams seed , without any use of scripture , which speak of no other seed of abraham but . christ , gal. . . by excellency so called , . by grace the elect , rom. . . . believers , rom. . ● , , , . gal. . . by nature , gen. ▪ . psal ▪ ● . . gen. . . . neither o● which are proselytes who do onely own god and his covenant . . the promise of god to be a god to abrahams seed is thus expounded , the naturall seed of abraham and the naturall seed of proselytes , and of gentile christians visibly owning god and his covenant , shall have this visible priviledge , that they should be accounted to belong to gods kingdom and houshold with their parents . in which paraphrase i note what he calls to be accounted to belong to gods kingdom a visible priviledge . now [ to be accounted ] i must refer to some person who doth so account , and the accounting must be either an act of opinion , or science , or faith , and then to be accounted to belong to gods kingdom , is not a visible priviledg , but invisible , it being in the thoughts of anonother , and the sense should be , i will be a god to thy seed , that is men as v. . administrators shall in their thoughts take proselytes and their children to belong to my kingdom , or it is some outward trans●unt act , and then it is an initial seal , or i cannot conceive what it should be : if an initial seal either of circumcision or baptism , if either of these , then this promise [ i will be thy god and the god of thy seed ] hath this sense , i will bring it to passe that thou , thy seed , proselytes , believers of the gentiles and their seed , even infants , shall be circumcised or baptized . if any can make any other sense of the words , i shall be his debtor . and if this be the sense , then the promise is made a pre●iction of infant-circumcision and baptism , which whether it be not a ridiculous exposition , i leave it to any considerate man to judge . the apostle , rom . , , . where he expounds this very scripture , understands being a god , of saving grace according to election , and by abrahams seed the elect onely . rom. , . , justifying of believers by faith , gal. . . . inheritance and blessing to believers thro●gh christ jesus . our lord christ , luke , , , . of being the children of god and of the resurrection . mr. m. his self in his sermon , pag. . makes these words a promise of salvation to the infants of believers dying in their infancy . pag. . he saith , the substance of the covenant on god● part was to be abrahams god , and the god of his seed , to be an all-sufficient portion , to be an all-sufficient reward for him , to give jesus christ to him , and righteousness with him , both of justification and sanctification , and everlasting life : and this he distinguisheth from the administration of the covenant . yea in his defence of his sermon , pag. . he conceives the right allegation of an expression of cameron , that circumcision did seale primarily the temporall promise , sanctification secondarily , to have an untoward look , as being inc●ngruous to a covenant of grace in christ to ratifie temporall blessings , which they may have that shall have no portion in christ. hath it not then a more untoward look to make this pretended visible privilege to proselytes children though but visibly owning god and his covenan● , of having an initiall seal circumcision and baptism communicated to them , meant by the promise , i will be thy god and the god of thy seed ▪ gen. . . much more to call this the copy of abraham the father of believers ? not that i deny temporall promises in that covenant , which i have proved to be mixt , but i allege these passages onely to show the inconsistency of mr. m. his speeches . besi●es , the promise were not true so expounded ; for if this were the sense ; i will be the god of the posterity of proselytes owning god and his covenant , that they shall be accounted to belong to gods kingdom and his houshold with their parents , then god doth promise that visible privilege to them ( for the words are a promise of an event , not a declaration of a right , and show what god would do , not what they might claim ) which in many he performs not , there being may of the seed of proselytes , that never had the privilege , and many of the children of christian gentile believers , who never had the visible privilege of being accounted to belong to gods kingdom , whereas the word of god must be so expounded that it do not fall , as about this very text the apostle resolves , rom. . . mr. m. defence part , . pag. . saith , it was not a personall privilege to abraham , no nor to abraham , isaac , and jacob to have their posterity taken into covenant by vertue of that promise , i will be the god of thee and thy seed , and p. . this i add to make it more clear , that that promise gen. . i will be the god of thee and of thy seed , is a gospel promise , which from age to age holds forth some benefits even to the naturall seed of believers . answer . . what mr. m. means by taking into covenant , is somewhat doubtfull to me by reason of his using the term covenant sometimes for the outward covenant or administration , sometimes for the promise of god , and confounding these terms [ taking into covenant , being in covenant , belonging to the covenant , being covenanters , entring into covenant ] sometimes meaning these terms of the promise of grace , sometimes of the initiall seal termed by him the covenant , and taking into covenant , being in covenant , belonging to the covenant , sometimes being understood , ( as they should always be ) in order to gods act , who alone takes into covenant , and puts a man into covenant with himself ; but frequently , though abusively , by another mans act , a● the administrators act of circumcision and baptism , very seldom of being in covenant , or belonging to the covenant by the circumcised or baptized persons own act of promise , though in respect of it onely , in right speech , a person is said to be a covenant●● , or to enter into covenant . of which thing i have often , though in vain complained , it causing obscurity which a man who is a teacher of others should avoid . but concerning the promise , gen. . i will be a god to thee and thy seed after thee in their generations . . i deny that abrahams naturall posterity were taken into covenant , that is , circumcised , ( as i conceive he means ) by vertue of that promise , as i have often proved , and is in effect confessed by mr. m. defence pag . when he saith , the formall reason of their being circumcised , was the command of god. . i deny that under the term [ thee ] is meant any other than abrahams individual person . . i deny that under the term thy seed , is ever ●eant in scripture the naturall seed of proselytes , or christian believing gentiles . . i deny that by the promise , i wil be the god of thy seed , can be concluded that which mr m. asserts , that th●s promise gen. . . i will be the god of thee and of thy seed , is a gospel promise , w●i●h from age to age holds forth some benefits even to the natural seed of believer , or that this was abrahams copy , that upon his and the proselytes visibly owning god and his covenant , their posterity should have this visible privilege , that they should be accounted to belong visibly to gods kingdom and his houshold with their parents . nor doth mr. m. prove this sense of that promise , gen . . either from the words , or their coherence , or by comparing it with any other scripture as yeelding that exposition of it elswhere : but saith something pag. , . of his defence , to which ( though i have answered it sufficiently in my postscript to mr. blake , sest . . pag. . ) yet i repeat it with addition , because much of pleading of paedobaptists is hence . first , saith he , though abraham was the father of the faithful , and so in some sense [ the root as you elsewhere call him ] yet the covenant was made with him for his faiths sake , and believers are his children , and heires , and pertake of those priviledges and promises which were made to him : and therefore look as abrahams faith justified him before god , and gave him interest in the spiritual graces of the covenant , and none but himself , yer it was so beneficial and advantagious to his children , that for his sake they should be accounted to belong to gods kingdome and houshold , and partake of the external priviledges of it , and thereby be trained up under the discipline of it , and so be fitted for spiritual privledges and graces which god doth ordinarily confer upon them , who are thus tra●ned up , so shall it be with them who become followers of abrahams faith , ans. . privileges of abraham in that promise [ i will be thy god and the god of thy seed ] are either evangelical belonging to abrahams spiritual seed , that is elect persons or true believers ; or domestick and political , as that of multiplying his seed , the birth of jsaac , continuation of his church in and from him in his inhereting posterity till christs comming . the birth of christ , deliverance out of egypt , possession of canaan , these belong to abrahams natural seed , yet not to all but to the inheriting , not to jshmael , nor the sons of keturah . the former all are partakers of it who follow the faith of abraham whether iews or gentiles , but none are in refference to these promises reckoned abrahams seed , but those who are real believers in christ. a proselyte owning barely god and his covenant vissibly is not either abrahams seed or partaker of the spiritual priviledges of sanctification , justification , salvation . the latter sort of promises belonged to abrahams natural posterity , yet not to all but to the ●eed inheriting , nor to all of them , but to the iewes , and in them for one of them to the line from whence after the flesh christ came . none of these were made to the bare vissible proselites and their children , though i grant their children where taken into the polli●y of israel , and were to be circumcised and to eat the passover , yet neither did this priviledge belong to them by vertue of the covenant , but the command , nor for their faiths sake as the immediate adequate reason ( for then these shou●d have belonged to pr●selites of the gate who beleived in god as cornelius the centurion , who was a believer , but they did not , for he was not circu●cised , nor to be circumcised with his children if , he had any , nor blamed for defect of it ) but meerly ( so far as is exprest in scripture ) because it was go●s w●l● to have it so . now mr. m. brings not a word to prove either that the children of prosylites vissibly owning god and his covenant , or the natural post●ri●y of christian pro●essors of the gentiles are either abrahams seed , or have such an interest in ex●ernal church privileges as mr. m. asser●s by vertue of that promise , or tha● wha● agrees to abraham in respect of ex●ernal church privileges for his faiths sake must agree either to only vissible prosylites , or christians , or real believers , but speaks like a dictator not a disputer . nor is there any good consequence in this , what , agreed to abraham for his faith's sake agrees to every believer , for then every believer should be father of the faithful as abraham was for his faith's sake . it is true that if the truth of abraham's f●ith were the immediate adequate reason of external privileges as i● was of justification , it would follow them , what ex●ernal privileges agree to abraham for his faith's sake should agree to every believer , but such believers then must be true real believers as abraham was , not bare vissible prosy●i●s or christian professors . but surly mr. m. means no more by [ for abraham's faiths sake ] but this , that abrahams faith was the motive or occasion god took to enter into covenant with him , nor was it simply his real true faith , but his remarkeable exemplary faith described rom. . , . which was the motive or occasion of gods entring into covenant with him , which is not verefied of every true believer , and the motive or occasion was not barely the truth , but the eminent degree of his faith . in my postscript pag. . i gave a like instance matth. . , . the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , binding and loosing were given to peter for his confession sake , yet it follows not the keyes are given to every one that makes the same confession as he did . and the reason because the confession was eminent and exemplary at a special time , and it was but the occasion , not the immediate adequate reason of that gift to him ▪ for that was onely the special grace and purpose of gods will. ly , saith mr. m. abraham's natural seed prosilites of other nations could never by vertue of their becomming followers of abraham's faith have brought their children into covenant with them so as to have a visible church-member-ship , as we know they did . answ. i do not know that the proselytes natural seed had the visible church-member-ship mr. m. mentions by vertue of the promise gen. . . and their parents faith , but of gods command exod . ly saith he , and we know also that this promise of being the god of believers and their seed was frequently renewed many hundreds of years after abraham , jsaac , and jacob , were dead and rotten , as deut. . . so esa : . , . so likewise esay . . and this last promise your self acknowledg pag. . to be intended chiefly of the nation of the iewes , at their last calling in : and whereas you use to elude these texts by saying these things belong onely to the elect . when they come to believe , and reach not to any privilege which is external ; i reply , by the same answer you might cut off the seed of abraham , jsaac , and jacob , for to believers then as well as believers now were these promises made . answ : that which i say is no elusion of the texts , but so plain and evident , that paedo-baptists of note do concur with me . mr. rich. baxter . in his letter to mr. bedford in the friendly accommodation between them . to this and that which followeth i answer ; . these following arguments perswade me that you erre ; . no such promise ( tha● give●h certainly cornovum or the first effectual grace to all the rightly baptized or to all the children of believers ) can be shewed in scripture ; i will circumcise thy heart and of thy seed , seems to me to be none such . because els it should not be the same circumcision that is promised to the parent of the child : but there is no intimation of two circumcisions in the texr : one to the father , being only an increase or actuating of grace ; and the other to the child being the giving the first renuing grace : . the text seems plainly to speak of [ their seed ] not in their infant state but in their adult deut. . for. . v. . the conditon of the promise is expressly required , not onely of the parents , but of the child●en themselves by name . . and that condition is the personal performance of the sam acts which are tequired of the parents viz : to returne to the lord and obey his voice with all their heart and soul. . the circumcision of heart promised is so annexed to the act that it appeareth to be meant onely of those that were capable of the act v. . the lord thy god will circumcise thine heart and the heart of thy seed to love the lord thy god so that it is not ment of those that are uncapable of so loving , and after , a new heart is given to the elect onely . by this doctrin you feign a new heart not to be proper to the elect , which is contrary to all the anti-arminians that i know of . out of which it plainly appears that deut. . . speaks not of an external privilege , but a spiritual grace proper to the elect , nor can be meant of the seed of believers in their infant sta●e , but in their adult . in the text jsai . . , . speaking of gods pouring his spirit on the seed of jacob his servant . and ieshrim whom he had chosen ( whom he bids not to fear ) and his blessing on his off-spring and that they shall spring up as amongst the grass &c. the terms jacob and jeshurim are taken not personally ( for it were in vain to bid jacob dead long before not to fear ) but collectively either for the nation of israel , or the church of god called the jsrael of god. gal. . . in the former acception the seed and off-spring must be ment of the children of israel , that is the israelites by natural generation , and then the sense is ( as mr. gataker in his annot. on that text ) my spirit , that is my blessing ( the one expoundeth the other ) whereby they and their state should thrive and flourish , and mul●iply , and increase , that had been almost clean exhaust and exceedingly impaired in a manner beyond al hopes of recovery before ch . . ezek. . . , . so of their land ch . . . and of their ●eed ch . . he followeth still the comparison taken from grounds well watered as ch . . . and the seed sown in soil ch . . ▪ in the latter 〈◊〉 he , it is a type o● that spiritual growth and increase of gods church , and the members 〈◊〉 under the messiah , by the graces and comfort● o● his spirit acts. . . e●hes . . . . col. . . ●et . . . s●e ch . ● . . and . ● . and . . . take it either way it makes no●hi●g for a● external vissible privilege from age to age belonging to the natural seed even o● 〈◊〉 believers : but in the first acception it n●●es a future multiplying of the jewes then much wast●d , in the la●ter spiritual graces and comforts to 〈…〉 . and for the last t●xt ames . coro● ▪ acts. c. ● versum vicesimum , quem in hanc partem remonstrantes trahunt , in alteran part●m accipit apostolus paulus rom. . . promissionem absolut●m & electorum propriam in eo contineri manifestis verbis confirmans : exterm●n nihil son●t spiritus meus qui est in 〈◊〉 . ●eminis etiam inculcatio solos electos & ●●●caciter vocatos notari docet apostolo sic hunc citulum interpretante rom. . ● . gal . . & . . mr. gataker annot : on esai . . thy seed ] the faithful the seed according to the promise deut. . ▪ rom. . , gal. . . . se dr. owen of perseverance ch . . sect. . ch . . sect. . ch . . sect. . ch . . sect. . and for what mr m counts absurd i yeild i● that my answer cuts off isaac's and iacob's natural posterity from these promises except they be elect . and as for mr. m. deprehending me in absurdity and trifling such as i cenceive in mr. cottons● words , i tell him that his discourse runs upon a mistake of my words and meaning ( which he doth almost in every thing he repea●s of m●n● and censu●es out of hast to frame his book as i am willing to conceive . ) for where do i say that which he ascribes to me , and from which he would infer like triflin● and absurdity as was in mr. cottons speech , that god made this promise to abraham , isaac , and jacob to be the god of them and their seed in all generations ? and yet if i had said it , such trif●ing as mr. cotton used , would not have follow●d on those words ascribed to me , unless i had said also , that abraham , isaac , and jacob were put for every believer and [ ●heir seed ] had been meant in ●hat proposition ascribed to me , of their spirituall seed by faith . and for the close of that discourse in which he tells me , thus by your own argument you cut off all the jewes but such as were elect and inwardly holy , as much as you do the gentiles from having any visible communion in externall privileges , i say mr. m. fathers on me his own brats , first a proposition i deliver not , then an argument which was none of mine as he makes it , and then a conclusion i never owned , nor would follow on that proposition or that argument he would father on me . for if it were granted that i asserted that god promised to abrahaham , isaac , and jacob , to be the god of them and their seed in all generations , and that my reasoning on mr. cottons words would prove this proposition must be meant onely of the elect , and inwardly holy ( as mr. m. falsly imagines ) i do not cut off the gentiles from having any visible communion in externall privileges , unless i had said the elect jewes or gentiles onely had visible communion in externall privileges by vertue of that promise , gen. . . whereas i never said that externall privileges , as v. . of the initiall seal of circumcision was proper to the elect , and inwardly holy , or derived it from the promise , gen. . , but onely from the command , v. . . sect . xxxviii . animadversions on the third chapter of the first part of mr. t. cobbe●s jus●● vindic. sect. , , . about gen. . whereby his positions about church-covenant and externall privileges of the covenant of grace are refelled . to how little purpose mr. m. hath alleged the promise , gen. , . hath been considered ▪ i shall now view what mr , cobbe● just. vindic. part . ●hap . . brings for his doctrine of federal holiness of church-members children from thence . first he begins , sect. . with certain distinctions , the covenant of grace , saith he , is considered either nakedly or as invested with a visile politicall church covenant , if not explicite , yet implicite . we are to consider this place , gen. . not so much in the former as the later sense ; god making of it with ference to the church , which was to remain in the posterity of isaac , v. , , , . albeit at present it be to be contained in abrahams own family , whence also he ordaineth an initiatory seal , and way of restipulation , to which they submitting together as one selected body collectively , and as members thereof distributively , they did implicitly make confession and promise to god and bind themselves in a nearer religious tie one unto another . hence then renewed deut. . chron. . & . & . nehem. . ezek. , . answer . it had been well if mr. c. had defined the covenant of grace in this sense , and how it is fe●cht from gen. . . that i might have known whether he takes it in the same notion which i do , whose examen mr. cotton in his letter to me certified me that he was to examine . a covenant in the proper acception is a promise single or mutuall , the covenant of grace is gods covenant or promise of grace , a term not used in scripture , though agreeably enough to it . every covenant of god may be well enough termed a covenant of grace . it was of his grace , that is , free favour , that god made any covenant with man in innocency , that he entred into covenant with the israelites at the giving the law at mount sinai : yet commonly divines oppose the covenant of grace to either of these covenants . it is true there are who make the covenant at mount sinai the covenant of grace with a different administration , which to be a mistake , is shewed in that which follows . usually difference is made between the covenant of grace and the covenant of works , or of the law , which is agreeable to the apostles expressions , gal. . . & . . the one promiseth justification by keeping the law , the other by believing in christ. i for my part take the covenant of grace for gods promise of evangelicall saving grace , to wit , regeneration , justification by christ , &c. according to the doctrine of the author to the hebrews , chap. , , , ● ▪ . & , , . which our lord christ calls the new testament , matth. . . i acknowledge also , that gen. . . and elsewhere , this covenant was made to abraham under c●vert expressions , which in their first and most obvious sense held forth other things . but i am put to ghesse what mr cobbet means by the covenant of grace , and in which words , gen. . and in what sense he placeth the covenant of grace there . he speaks of a visible politicall church-covenant , and conceives the covenant of grace , gen. . to be invested with it either explici . or implicit . the visible poli●icall church-covenant ( as i conceive from sundry writings of the new england elders ) is , that promise of members in a particular church gathered in a congregationall way wherein over and besides the promise they make of faith in god , and in the lord christ , they explicitly or implicitly promise to each other to walk in holy communion of gods ordinances , and subjection to those that are over them with the members of the congregation to which they adj in themse●ves as members . mr. c. supposeth this covenant as elsewhere so here , gen. . to be included , i wi●h many others see no clear ground for such a covenant there or elswhere . besides , what he means by the covenant of grace considered as invested with a visible politicall church-covenant , if not explicit , yet implicit , is obscure ▪ [ invested ] is as much as clothed , and it is used as a term of law , as in the great question about investures into bishopricks in former ages , and so it notes a legall admission . but in what sense the covenant of grace is said to be invested , is somewhat dark . this i conceive is the meaning , that the covenant of grace , gen. . . is made to abraham and his seed considered as joyned by a visible politicall church-covenant . but i conceive such a position nei●her true nor safe : not true , for no mention either explicit or implicit of such a church covenant is here or in any of the places he cites . none ●here : for though god made the promise in reference to the church which was to remain in the posterity of isaac , v. , ▪ , yet that church might be joyned by common profession of the same god , without a promise explicit or implicit of walking toge●her in communion under an eternall politie . god ordained circumcision as a sign of the covenant made with abraham : but in what words or f●ct there 's any implied way of rest●pulation , confession , or promise to god , i am yet to seek , much m●re wherein they did bind themselves in a nearer religious●ie one to another . for though god intended by circumcision to bind them to leave sin and keep his precepts , and to direct them to look for the messi●h ▪ yet that they by any word or act of theirs , did promise to do so , i find not there , nor is it likely that ishmael did make any such profession or promise to god or to others of the family , considering his after carriage to isaac , and his expulsion from abrahams house . as for the other texts , deut. . , , there 's mention of entring into covenant with the lord , not a word of entring into covenant one with another , much less of submitting to any outward ecclesiastical governors or government . the same may be said of the covenant , chron. . , . chron. , , . there 's a covenant to god mentioned , but not a covenant to each other called a church-covenant . chron. there 's no mention of any covenant , but of keeping the passover . nehem. . , . it is said , they clave to their brethren , their nobles , and entred into an oath to walk in gods law : but that they entred into a covenant one with another , i find not . if the words , they clave to their brethren their nobles , be meant of a promise to them , yet a promise of subjection to them as ecclesiasticall superiors , of holding communion with them in ordinances for admission to church-membership , i find not there , but an engagement with them to re●orm certain abuses : and then ordinances ( not a covenant ) were made to charge themselves with for the service of the lord , ezek. . . there 's no mention of mans promise to god , or to one another , but the promise of god to them , that he sware to israel , and entred into covenant with them , and they became his . nor is the position safe , that the covenant of grace , gen. . . is made to abraham and his seed considered as joyned by a visible politicall church-covenant : for then should not the proselytes of the gate , as for instance , cornelius the centurion be included in the promise of being a god to him , because it is certain he was not j●yned by a visible politicall church-covenant to the jewish church , sith he was uncircumcised , and counted unclean , insomuch as that peters going in to him , a●ts . . was conceived as unwarrantable for that reason . and what can be the issue of this doctrine , if received , but perplexing superstitious fears of their salvation in some , if they be not in church-covenant , for without the promise of being god to a person , no man is s●ved , and injurious censures of those not in church-covenant , as out of the way of salvation , which will make it like the grand imposture ( ●s dr. morton calls it ) of the romish ●hurch that out of communion with it is no salvation . i do not make such a church-covenant unlawfull , for what we are bound to do , we may lawfully promise to do , nor do i deny its expediency and usefulness , especi●lly if it be not in too strict and intangling a form . but i think there 's no suffici●nt proof that it is of divine institution , or the form of a particular church ei●her in resp●ct of its tru●h or purity , much less that it is a condition of interest in the covenant of grace , as if the promises thereof were m●de under that condition . but i conceive this speech of mr. c. he●e together wi●h ●hat other excepted against m● by me in the first part of this review ▪ pag. are very dangerous . i go on . again , saith mr. c. that covenant of grace is considered either in it self , or its administration ; to which purpose circumcision is called the covenant , partly because it was the sign and seal of the covenant of grace , gen. , ▪ ▪ partly too , because it was the covenant of grace in the administration of it , ier. . . & isai. . & zach. ● . . hath reference to the covenant of grace , both as invested with the church covenant , and in respect of church administration thereof . answer . the administration of the covenant of grace is to me no way intelligible but thus , that by it is meant the administring the promise it self , which i know not how it should not be done but by making or writing , or some other way representing or recording it , or the things promised in the covenant of grace , to wit , justification , &c. which may be done either by divine authority & power conferring or bestowing , and this none can do but the eternal father , son and spirit , or by way of signification , revelation or assurance of them , so i confess the preaching of the gospel , and in some sense the sacraments ( as they are called ) may be termed church-administrations of the covenant of grace . but this seems not to be mr. c. his meaning , for he saith , circumcision is called the covenant , partly because it was the sign and seal of the covenant of grace , gen. . , , . partly too because it was the covenant of grace in the administration of it which words are an in●pt tautology , if to be the covenant of grace in the administration of it , be not somewhat beyond being a sign and a seal of it ; and sith circumcision is said to be both , circumcision must not onely sign and seal the covenant of grace , but must be the administration of it , which how it should do but by conferring the grace of it , i know not . if it be that way , it must do it either ex opere operato , or ex opere operantis : if this later way , then how do infants receive grace by it , who believe not , nor do any other act pre-required ? if the former , it is the same with the tenent of popish doctors . and for the text , gen ▪ . , . his own words , pag. . refu●e him when he s●i●h , every one that ha●h read catecheticall doctrine will say ▪ that when in one verse it 's said of circumcision in their flesh , that it was his covenant in their flesh : it is an usu●ll metonymy in speaking of sacraments to call the outword sacramenntall sign and seal by the name of the thing signified and scaled , pag . circumcision is b●t a branch of the covenant , or condition of the covenant on their part . as for the tex● jer. . . there 's not a word of ci●cumcision in 〈◊〉 , onely it is said that god had caused to cleave to him the whole house of israel , as the girdle cleav●th to the ●yns of a man , but to refer this to circumcision is frivolous ▪ god had by his covenant , providence and actings for them in wonderfull ma●er made them to cleave to hi● , that ●hey might be unto him for a people , as i● follows in the v●rse . in the other text , isai. it is said the iews had broken the everlasting covenant ▪ which if it be und●rstood of the covenant of grace , then may it be br●ken , a●d persons may fa●l from grace ; if of circumcision , as mr. c. seems to und●rstand it ▪ then it is no more but they had uncircumcised ●hemselves , which were both fa●se : for at that time and after , even unto this day , ●he iewes keep the ordinance of circumcisioon very strictly , ●nd frivol●s as if this h●d been the great ma●ter for which the earth mourned , did fade away , languished , was utterly emptied and spoiled . but ●the covenant here is meant of the covenant of ●he law a 〈…〉 ▪ which was everlasting , that is , to continue as long as their p●●i●y stood , exod . , . as ex●n . , , & . . & . , chron. . . . & . . the word [ for ever ] is used for a long time , or the continuance of the iewish s●ate . so jer : , , , jer : , , they are accused to break the covenant at m●un● sinai by disobedience , chiefly by idolatry , and therefore neither of the t●x●s yeild any thing to prove circumcision to be the covenant of grace in the administration of it . that gods breaking of his covenant , zach . : hath no reference to the covenant of grace , either as invested wi●● church-covenant or church-administration thereof , is shewed above , sect , in the right administration of it . the distinction he makes of being in the covenant intentionally and 〈◊〉 i allow , nor do i deny the distinction o● being in covenant internally and savingly , and onely externally in respect , of men , though i find not ishmael any where said to be in the covenant , and the promises rom. . . are meant of the peculiar promises to the nation of israel , by the covenants are meant the tables of the covenant as beza in his annot. on that place , however all there said is meant of the israelites only as is shewed before sect. . and therefore this place makes nothing for christian gentile professors being externally in the covenant of grace as mr. c. imagines . nor do i know any text in the scripture wherein that phrase is used of being in covenant or having the covenant belong to them externally only . the distinction of being in covenant externally in their own or their parents right hath no proof in the new testament , however it have in the old . the seed of abraham by proportion is a new invented sort of abrahams seed , no where proselytes of old ( not true believers ) in their generations ▪ and ( were ) visible inchurched beleivers in their generations scil . parents & children together are terms abrahams seed in scriptue . that deut. . notes the sorts of persons , not the individuats cannot be true ▪ for [ him that is here and him that is not here ] note individual persons distinguished according to their present and future existence . that gen. . is meant of a church seed indefinite or by proportion , is said , not proved by mr. c. and denied by me . i pass on to his conclusions . sect. . i grant the first conclusion according to the explication i give in my exercit. pag. . in my examen part . . sect. . that the covenant gen. ▪ was a covenant ●f grace , and the same in nature with that covenant of grace n●w h●ld ●orth to us . but mr. c. hath a further meaning to wit that the covenant as it is a covenant of evangelical grace contains a promise to a gentile believere of the external privilege of an initial seal or external ●ight to outward ordinances to them and their natural seed , and accordingly saith pag. the covenant then of the gospel hath outward privileges of gods tabernacle annexed as wel as abrahams covenant , yea in that it 's the same with it . which conclusion in this sense were manifestly false , for the lord hath of purpose taken away such a tabernacle according to christs prediction iohn . . that there might be no distinction of iewes and gentiles all having one access by one spirit to the father eph. . . as for his proofs i intend not to construe every speech of mr c. there being many of them if they be good sense yet very darke , but onely shew the impertinency of his texts to this purpose . le●i . . , ● . containes a promise proper to the isralites obeying god v , as v &c. and shewes , and it is a promise of that which is not now to be performed to us or setling his tabernacle among us , the tabernacle and temple being now taken away since christs incarnation . god hath setled no tabernacle now among us but christs body or heavens iohn . . . heb. . . and . or the c●urch of god. cor. . , . and . and his setling this tabernacle or temple is by saving grace , hath no reference to ou●w●rd church privileges , such as mr. c. means . revel . . . is a promise of something to be performed in the last time whether at the calling of the jewes , or after the judgment . whatever it be it notes another thing than external right to outward ordinances common to elect and reprobate , though it be expressed by a terme illusive to the material tabernacle of the jews . ephes. . , . it is said the gentiles were without god in the world after their conversion ; not because their children wanted an external right to an initial seal , for cornelius the centurions children and such proselytes of the gate wanted such a right , and yet were not without god in the world ; but because they knew not the true god , and his will concerning them that believe in christ , piscat : analys : loci , or or worshiped not the true god after , his will as the new annot. even as galat. . the galatians before their conversion are said not to have known god , but to do service to them that by nature were not gods. exod. . is a promise to the israelites whom he brought out of egypt v. . and from whom he had sanctified a●ron and his sons . revel . . . as v. . is neither m●●nt of ou●ward ordinances , nor of an esta●e which is yet pertaining to the godly who are still under persecutions . levit : . , , . certain promises of restoring the israelites from captivity and bringing them back to canaan as v. , . shew . zech. . . whether meant of temporal deliverance or spiritual it is another thing than outward ordinances , in the former sense it is proper to the jewes carried to babylon , in the latter to the elect onely . the like may be ●aid of gen. . . . psal. . . ierem. . , . ( likely v. . . ) cor. . ▪ . exod. . . compared with levi● . , . heb : ● . . in none of wh●ch their 's a word of a right of infants or meer professing parents to the visible administration by vertue of gods covenant gen : . . to be abraham and his seed ; nor doth it follow because god saith my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant gen : . . therefore ou●ward ordinances and right to them as then are to be perpetual , for then circumcision of which those wods are spoken must con●inue still , but ra●her as mr : l●y in his annot : on gen : . . the covenant may be said to be everlasting in respect of the spiritual part for which circumcision was ordained , and in respect of the long continuance of the outward ceremony . if ezek : . , . be meant of the jewes calling in the time yet to come , and the same phrases be used , yet that ei●h●r the promise should be meant v : . of their childrens having ●n in●●ial seal , v : . their having a material tabernacle or temple and outward ordinances as in the former time is but a vain conceit : for then they must by the same reason have david the son of iesse to be their king . wherefore as by david is meant christ typified by david , so circumcision is continued in the mortifying of sins col. . and gods placing his tabernacle is as piscat : sch . in ez●h : . . the gratious inhabiting of god in the hearts of the elect cor : . . and if because in the new testament such allusive phrases are found as are in the same language with those used in the old , therefore such outward things are imported by them as were in the law , then outward privileges , offices , rites should be meant by presenting our bodies as sacrifices , being preists to god &c. it is in my apprehension a manifest anti-evangelical and iudaizing assertion which mr : c. hath , that the covenant of the gospel hath outward privileges of gods tabernacle annexed as well as abrahams covenant , yea itn that it is the same with it . sect : ●● when he saith conc : . that the covenant of grace gen : . is to be considered as invested with church covenant , it is such an ambiguous expression as i know not well how to understand what i imagine to be the meaning i have refuted before in this section . nor doth that which is here said , that there is mention of this covenant to be kept by them v : . and further expressed in one particular thereof v : . and that this was required as an initiatory sign incorporating them into one instituted church body , wherby they were made capable of further church-ordinances and other duties which lay upon them virtually by it , prove the church-covenant he speaks of , unless it be proved ( which i think he cannot do ) they did tie themselves thereby to walk with one another in holy communion with subjection to their superiors as a distinct visible political church . sect . xxxix . animadversions on sect : . of the same chapter : whereby the co●ceits of mr. c about external being in the covenant of grace are shewed to be vain . sect : mr. c. sets down this conclusion , that there is a bare external being in the covenant of grace of persons who possibly never shall be saved . but he no where shewed in scripture either the term covena● of grace , or the phrase of being in the covenant of grace externally or in●ernally . did mr : c. and other paedobaptists distinctly set down . what th●y mean by [ the covenant of grace ] . what they mean by [ being ex●ernally in the covenant of grace ] whether it be any o●her thing than to be baptized or circumcised , and what it is distinct from one of these or title to one of them . . by what act ●t is that a person is externally in the covenant of grace , whether gods or his owne , or others as v. . the administra●ors , parents , or the churches , we might more easily judg of his position . if he mean no more than this , that there is a being in the covenant of grace in respect of men , that is , men as administrators and others do think or judg some to be in the covenant of grace , that is , that god hath promised saving grace to some to whom he hath not , i grant it , and i might say in the like manner , some are excernally elected , regenerated , justified , adopted who are not so savingly . and i should grant that such as are taken to be in the covenant of grace by reason of th●ir own profession of faith in christ are rightly judged by us to be in the covenant of grace and may be baptized , though perhaps they shall not be saved . but such as are taken by us to be in the covenant of grace without gods promise or act of their own profession of faith , by an administrators of baptism and others mistake . concerning the promise gen : . as if it were made to every believing gentile by profession inchurched , and his natural seed as abrahams church seed ( as mr. c. calls them ) are not therefore rightly judged to be in the covenant of grace , nor rightly judged to be fit subjects of baptism which appears to be mr : c's . meaning by his words pag. . when he saith , the covenant is theirs externally and quoad homines considered as invested with church covenant , and in reference to covenant-ordinances whereof they are capable as of old they were of circumcision and are now of baptism . let us consider what mr. c. brings to this purpose . what he saith the promise is said to belong to those jewes rom : . . on whom yet the word took no saving effect v : . is not right . for v : . is not meant by [ the promises ] he promise by excellency called the promise of the spirit gal : . . given to abraham v : . distinct from the law v : . but the peculiar promises which are made to the israelites upon the obeying of the law that they should possess canaan , liue long in it , and prosperously as deut , . . and . , &c. for all that which is said rom : . . is meant of what was proper co the israelites after the flesh . but the covenant of grace is established or made a law on better promises heb : . . and the phrase rom : . . [ not as if the wo●d of god had taken none effect , which is word by word , not as if or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it may not be , that is : it is not possible , or it may not be yeelded that the word of god fell or was not verified ] is meant not of the promises , v : , but of the promises mentioned v : . to wit that gen : . . which he doth not say did belong to any exte●nally on whom it had no saving effect : but supp●se it to have been verefied and made good to all to whom it was made , who in go●s intention were only the elect , ca●led therefore children of the promise v : ● that is those that were bego●t●n by the promise , not to every child of abraham by natural generation , in particular not to ishmael , nor esau. nor is it right which he adds , hence rom : . . by opposition to the gentiles , hey ( the jewes meant v : . ) where those which were not strangers to the church , but of it , if he mean it of the christian church . i grant the jewes were not strangers to the covenants of promise , but in the same , eph. : , . but that all the gentile believers and their children were then that which they were not before , is not a ●ight collection . for as they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , uncircumcised in the flesh , so th●y were still ; nor were they ever of the polity of israel . and if the covenants of promise be meant of the tables of the covenants , and if the word [ promise ] be placed thus ( as some place it ) not having hope of the promise , they might be still said to be strangers from the covenants . however , if then they were acquainted with , and partakers of the covenants of promise , this can be understood of none but true believers and the covenant as it was spiritual , which is nothing to the being externally in the covenant of graces . mr. c. adds , hence god makes his covenant with them all , deut. : , , , , . speaking there of that solemn renewall of the covenant of grace , as deut. : , , , ▪ . compared with rom. , , , . evinceth . answer . the more ample discussing this place , and vindicating my exceptions from what mr. b. replies , i reserve till i answer his plain scripture proof , &c. part . c. and his corrective , sect. . for present i say , if god did make his covenant with them all , and it appears to have been the covenant of grace , as deut : . , , , , . compared with rom. . , , . evinceth , then all must be not onely externally in the covenant of grace , but also internally : for the promise deut. . . is to circumcise the heart to love the lord , cannot be expounded of the external being in the covenant of grace , but internal . mr b. in his friendly accommodation , a new heart is given to the elect onely , which is all one with the circumcised heart . he goes on , so ezek . . he made a covenant with that church and people , many whereof proved very base , as that chapter sheweth . now this was a covenant of grace , albeit invested with church-covenant , as appears in that v. . that god for that his covenants sake considered as his , will deal so graciously with them after all their provocations , as v. , . albeit he did not thus properly for the sake of that investure of his covenant annexed , scil . thy covenant , the churches covenant abractively considered , v. . see more ezek. . from v. . to the chapters end . answer . the thing that mr. c. should prove is an externall being in the covenant of grace quoad homines . but ezek. . . neither speaks of the covenant of grace , but the covenant of the law , which was made in mount sinai junius the new annot : refer to exod. . & . piscat . schol. in locum , visitari te per mosen , educendo te ex aegypto , & pangendo tecum fedus , atque ita ducendo te in uxorem : nor is this meant of externall being in covenant in respect of men , but of gods promise to them , as the words plainly import , , i sware unto thee and entred into covenant with thee , saith the lord. as for the reason why the covenant v. must be the covenant of grace , because he will deal graciously with them for that his covenant , v. . it goes on this supposition , that the covenant v. , is the same with the covenant v. . but piscat . schol. on the place reckons that v. , to be the covenant made in the times of araham , isaac , and jacob , and levit. . , leads to it . but were it granted to be the covenant by moses , it follows not that the covenant must be the covenant of evangelicall grace . for in moses his renewing the covenant in the land of moab , there 's a promise of reduction of them , deut. . . which being upon condition of their returning to god , and obeying his voyce according to all that moses commanded that day , must be understood of the covenant of the law , which had its promises of such temporall favours , and not of the covenant of evangelical grace . that which mr. c. saith , that he did not thus properly , for the sake of that investure of his covenant annexed , scil . this covenant , the churches covenant abstractively considered , v. . i know not what sense to make of it . there 's not a word of church-covenant , or investure with it . the plain meaning is either this , not by that covenant of the law which thou hast broken , but by the new covenant of the gospel , as junius in his annot. in locum , diodati , the new annot. or this as piscat . schol. in locum , not because thou art worthy of this aggregation of the nations , as if thou hadst kept covenant with me , as if he had said , but of my grace or free favour , or as grotius ▪ it is a metonymy as if it were said , not because on thy part thou hast stood to the covenant . i have seen ezek . from v. . to the chapters end , and i see nothing there to mr c. his purpose to prove a bare externall being in the covenant of grace ▪ there 's not the word covenant in all the passage : but on the contrary , there are promises , v. , , . of a new heart giving his spirit , which as mr. b. saith truly , is proper to the elect , and notes an internall being in the covenant of grace . there 's little but muddiness and impertinency in the rest . he speaks of an externall being in christ , john . . ( which is not denied in respect of profession of those that are so ) and of an externall partaking of christ , for which it's likely he cites ( not as it is printed , heb. . . ) but heb. . . but sure that partaking is a saving partaking to which is required the holding fast to the end the beginning of our confidence . for an external partaking may be without condition . the jewish refusers , ios. . . are called christs own , either by kindred or right to them from the old engagements of them to be his by their ancestors , or by vertue of this redeeming them from aegypt , the land of the north , or some other way . surely not because they did externally belong to christ , or were externally in the covenant of grace & were to be baptized . for they expresly denied christ , and rejected the counsell of god against themselves being not baptized by iohn , luke : . i grant there is an externall being called , matth : . , but this not competent to infants : i doubt whether heb : , , be to be interpreted of an externall being sanctified quoad homines in respect of others by the blo●d of the covenant . the new annot : say thus , in regard of the meritorious sufficient satisfaction purchased by it . piscat : schol. in locum per quem vide batur esse sanctificatus quamdiu , scil . christum confitebatur . dictum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i think it is meant of the same sanctification of which he speaks in the same chapter , v. . . ch . , , to wit , an effectuall sanctification by remission of sins , and purging their consciences from dead works , chap : , , ( which alone , and not an externall sanctificacion i find ascribed to the blood of the covenant ) and the person there said to be sanctified with this sanctification not in reality but according to his profession and opinion of himself , as luke . . some are said to be just persons that need no repentance , that is , according to their own profession and opinion . the purging from sin , pet. . . was externall i grant , not inward in the heart , yet it was not a mere purging by the outward ordinance of baptism , but their own profession , and partiall reformation of themselves not competent to infants . pet : . ● it 's doubt●ful whether it note an external being purchased by christ , or a purchase by christ onely sufficient , or an effectuall purchase , yet said of them onely according to what they professed and conceived of themselves , as luke , , heb : , , or others conceived of them . that deut : , , should be meant of an externall saintship , is supposed , not proved , though it it were applied to the body of israel , yet it might be understood in respect of the better part , that the people were called gods saints . psa : , , the saints of god , and those that had made a covenant with him by sacrifice were israel . vers , & it is true there were many hypocrites ; but as the new annot : god in respect of his elect calleth the whole body holy , saints , and his people , not meerly from an externall saintship . to which i add , if it be referred to the covenant , exod : . . to which mr ainsworth in his note on the place directs ▪ it was the covenant of the law , not the covenant of grace which is meant , psal : , , it is true , there are invisible churches , which are as isaac was , children of the promise , gal : , , children of the gospel-church , v. , & . but that this should be verefied in all the members of the galatian churches , unto whom paul wrot that episte , gal : , , is not true , nor is it proved by mr c , that the apos●●e spake what he saith , v ▪ , , of every member of the churches of galatia . it is true that ierusalem above is the mother of us all : but that [ us all ] should signifie every profession of the faith in the churches of galatia , is false : for then every one of them should be born after the spirit , v : . and inherit , v. ● . the new annot : on gal : . . . therefore say , the christian church is the mother of all the faithfull who are heirs of the kingdom of heaven whether they be i●wes or gentiles . so that to be mother of us all , gal. . . is not to be mother of every professed christian in galatia , but of so many as held the right faith with paul , and were born after the spirit . thus in like maner rom : , , when it is said , who spared not his own son , but gave him up for us all , it is not meant of every professor of faith in rome , but all the elect and true believers , as that which follows in the same verse and verse shewes : so that we need not assert ei●her that every professor of faith in the galatian churches was a child of the jerusalem above effectually and savingly , or that there were some particular visible churches in which were no hypocrites ( which yet may be true notwithstanding the parables matth : and . or tim : , . compared with tim : , ) o● that such as are savingly interessed in the covenant of grace , should fall from grace , or that all were externally and according to men children of the promise , as mr c ▪ speaks . heb : , , , proves not that the promise of grace and glory may be to one as his legacy or portion externally and according to men , of the saving good whereof it is possible one may fall short . for though there be mention of a promise left , yet not of a promise left to any that come short of it , unless by being left be meant propounded or tendered onely . antipaedobaptists do grant they admit false brethren to baptism and the lords supper , called by mr cobbet seals of church and covenant fellowship , but it is not in them to admit them into the fellowship of covenant , meaning the covenant of grace ; for that is gods peculiar . we admit them to baptism on this ground , not because to us they are in covenant ( we suspend any judgement about their interest in the covenant , as being out of our cognizance , and no rule for us to admit or keep back from baptism ) but because we know them to be professors of faith in christ. if by blanks be meant such as to whom the promise of the covenant of grace is not made , and by seals , baptism and the lords supper , we think we do ordinarily put seals to a blank , nor do we make scruple thereof , or think it true that the seal must follow the covenant , or that gen : . , , . acts , . cor : , prove it . that it is not taught gen : . , , , , ast : , , is shewed in the fore part of this review , sect ▪ and in this part , sect , , , , , , , and elswhere , cor. , ▪ the cup in the lords supper is called the new testament in christs blood ; but that all , or onely those who are in the covenant of grace must have the the cup , is not proved thence , and the falshood of it is shewed above often . we do not say when we admitted persons to baptism , we judged them to be in the covenant of grace , else we had not admitted them ; but we knew they professed faith in christ , and so were disciples of christ , and thereupon admitted them according to our rule , matth. , leaving it to the lord whether they be in the covenant of grace or no , we being not directed to enquire whether they were in the covenant of grace , but whether believers and disciples by profession . i for my part agree not to it , that either according to scripture , or the best protestants any are said to be children of the promise , or that the covenant of evangelicall grace in the n. t. confirmed by christs blood , is made to them , or belongs to them besides the elect . such doctrine gives great advantage to the arminians , undermines perseverance in grace , and the polemicall doctrine of our choice divines , as i shewed ex●men part . sect. . and elswhere in this part of the review . mr. norton , mr c. his colleague , commended by mr cotton with mr cobbet , as a prime writer in the new english churches , resp. ad syl . quaest . apollon . p. . saith , objectum faederis gratiae sunt soli electi , objectum faederis ecclesiastici sunt tum electi tum reprobi my own tertulli●n in his book de anima , chap. , , when he urgeth that tex● , cor : ▪ , for a peculiar cleanness of believers children by privilege of seed , means not the federall holiness mr c. teacheth , but holiness by reason of the freedom from that unholiness in their procreation , which the infidels children had from the many gross idolatrous superstitions , by which they were defiled , and as it were ded●cated to the divell , as i shew in my apologie , sect , page . paraeus , peter martyr , bucer , melancthon , mr. philpot , are all neotericks . cyprian , gregory , nazianzen , jerom , austin , though they did plead for paedobaptism from the argument of circumcision , yet did not m●in●ain infants covenant-estate , as mr. c. but a necessity of baptism to infants ready to die , because of the text , the soul that is not circumcised shall be cut off from his people , gen : , ● , instances whereof in augustine and others are many cited by chamier pausir . tom : , l : , c. , sect , . and they thought the infant dying baptized was infallibly saved , whether believers child or not : as for others , they denied their entring into the kingdom of heaven , as i shew you in my examen , part . sect , , , . i have often considered zech : , , and i conceive the sense as mr c. makes it of the covenant of grace in respect , at least , of the externall administration thereof amongst them , as verse , and their externall right in that his covevenant , to be very vain : for if it be meant of the covenant of grace , then it is as much as to say , that i might not write my lawes in their heart , forgive their sins , &c. as i ●romised them , jer. . . and then god should break his promise , the●e should be falling from the covenant of grace , &c. if the sense be of the covenant of grace in respect of externall administration thereof amongst them , and their externall right in that his covenan● , then it is as if he had said , that i might take away circumcision , the passover , and the rest of the temple-service , and the peoples right to them . ( for what is the externall administration of the covenant of grace ; but the seals , as they call them , and the rest of the service of the sanctuary ? ) now this neither agrees to the phrase ; for circumcision is never called gods covenant with all the people , and to break circumcision , what is it but either to draw up the fore-skin , and to forbid circumcision ? if this be referred to the time of christs coming , this had not been a prediction of an evill to them , but of a benefit to be eased of that yoak , verse , mentions not externall administration of the covenant of grace , or externall right there o. but whenever it was accomplished , whether at the siege of jerusalem , or at some other time , it was the taking away of some who might be their protectors , whereby they were exposed to destruction ; which whether they were the maccabees or some others , may be doubted . however , it is so frigid an interpretation to interpert it as mr c. doth , that methinks he should be ashamed to blot paper with it . the covenant ch . whether it were that gen. . or that exod. . or . or deut. . ●t is certain it is meant not of the covenant of grace common to all believers gentiles or jews , but of the covenant which he made with the israelitish nation , which he brake by taking away their leaders whether governors or teachers maccabees or some other , and so exposing them to ruin by the grecian or roman lords or some other . psal. . . dan. . , , , . to deal falsly in gods covenant , and to forsake the holy covenant , and to do wickedly against the covenant , do not intimate that mr. c. would infer that there are some said to be in the covenant of grace only externally . for to deal falsly in gods covenant is no more than not to keep gods commands , as the term covenant is oft put synecdochically psal. . . and . . to forsake the holy covenant , is to forsake the law , to do against it , is to do against the law , as anticohus had imagination against the holy covenant , that is the law of the jews . and that this is the meaning is apparent psal. . . where v. . is thus explained , our heart is not turned back , nor our steps declined from thy way . this covenant then was no other than the law of moses , the covenant made in horeb , specially the decalogue , whence the ark called the ark of the covenant kings . . the decalogue the words of the covenant exod. . . and it is apparent in that antiochus endeavored to compel them to break that law , as to sacrafice to idols , to eat swines flesh and now this covenant was not the covenant of grace . for the apostle plainly distinguisheth the law from the promise years before gal. . . and the covenant at sinai is opposed to that of grace called the jerusalem above gal . nor is there any difficulty in that which mr. c. objects , that believers then might be in a free covenant of grace , and at the same time under the contrary covenant of bondage . for the believing jews to wit david and the rest of those that believed heb. . were under the command of the covenant in sinai . yet under the ceremonial part , yea were not under the sentence or judgment of the covenant of the law so as to be justified or condemned by it . the everlasting covenant isai. . . is no other than the law as is proved above . it is said rom . . ( not . as it is printed ) if some believed not , shall their unbelief make the faith of god without effect ? but the inference of mr. c. is frivolous , the faith of god was plighted to them , and they were externally in the covenant , though the faith of god took saving effect only in the elect and in the believing . for i would know what the faith of god was whether it were the covenant of saving grace , or the outward covenant ? if it were only the outward , how did it take saving effect in the elect ? did the faith of god take effect in that which was never promised ? the outward covenant me thinks mr. c. should not say did promise saving grace , but externall right and administrations , therefore saving grace is not the effect of that covenant . and indeed the outward covenant is but a meer notion ( except understood metonymically as circumcision is called the covenant as being the sign of it ) there being no faith of god plighted to any gentile believer and his seed , wherein god promiseth that they shall be accounted visible church members , and as having external right or enjoyment of church administrations . if he should it would be false , many of them never attaining them or having right to them . if it were the inward covenant in which god plighted his faith , then it took effect only in the elect and they only were in covenant . nor doth rom. . . intimate what mr. c. dreames ; that the word , or covenant of grace , took effect in all the jews , in some externally , in the elect savingly . but as the stream of protestant writers ( whereof some are alleged in my examen part . , sest . . and others before in this part of the review ) and the very words shew it took effect only in the elect , who are therefore call●d v. , the children of the promise distinguishingly from others , and the apostle plainly resolves that the seed gen. . . as not ishmael but isaac , not esau but jacob , and consequently no believers natural seed , except elected . as for rom. . . it is often shewed that the covenants there are meant of the tables of the covenant and the promises , the special promises made to the israelites after the flesh , as is manifest v. . . expressing peculiar privileges to them distinct from what the gentiles , though believers , have . which mr. c. saith , the covenant of grace and an outward covenant are not two distinct covenants : but the covenant of grace made with the elect in respect of their saving interest in that , i wil be a god to them , the same is made with others in respect both of visible interest and the visible administration of it , i see no truth in it . for there is no scripture that ever expounds , i will be a god to them , that is , they shall have visible interest , and the visible administration of it , that is , they shall be circumcised &c. many have the promise of saving intrest who neither have , nor ever had visible or visible administration as their language is of the covenant of grace , and on the contrary many have no saving interest , yet have the visible intrest and administration mr. c. speaks of which in truth follows the command , not the covenant . nor is it consistent with mr. c's . own suppositions , that a man may be in the external covenan● who is not in the covenant of grace savingly , that the one is only the visible interest and administration , the other the promise of saving grace , if they be not two distinct covenants , for they must needs be distinct covenants which are made to different persons of different things , as these are supposed to be by mr. c ▪ himself . nor doth mr. c. prove by any text that there is any other w●y of entring into the covenant of grace ordinarily , but by a true and lively faith . it is true ezek. . , , . the children of the israelites were gods children by special right as his servants levit. . . because he redeemed them out of egypt , and he had entred a special covenant with them , and they the whole nation had also engaged themselves in a special covenant to be his , and it is true the covenants and promises were theirs rom. . and they were the children of the prophets , and the children of the covenant which god made to abraham act. . . that is , the people among whom and out of whom christ came , to whom he was at first made known , to whom the prophets were sent ▪ but this doth not prove that they were all internally or externally in the covenant of grace . they had no right to be babtized , yea the greatest part of them ( for this is spooken of the people of the jews whether believers or not , even of them that offered their sons and daughters to divils ▪ ) denied christ , and were broken off by unbelief rom. . . gal. . . is impertinently brought to prove a bare external being in the covenant of grace . for it is meant only of believers born after the spirit v. . who by the spirit do wait for the hope of the righteousness which is by faith gal. . . it is not true that any of the 〈◊〉 members from the churh of ephesus acts . . are said to be purchased by the blood of christ. it was judged an abuse in stapleton by dr. rainold , apol. thess. sect : . to interpret the flock of god redeemed by his blood , of any reprobates . of pet. . . i have spoken before . an externall being in the covenant of grace , quoad homines , by the parties profession , i never denied , but an externall being in the covenant of grace of believers infants by vertue of the parents faith in the new testament , i still deny . mr c. takes upon him to answer my dilemma , examen pag. . and tells me , the covenant is theirs externally and quoad homines , considered as invested with church-covenant , and in reference to covenant-ordinances ▪ whereof they are capable , as of old they were of circumcision , and are now of baptism . thus it is theirs at present in respect of the visible faith and interest of the parent or parents in the covenant , and for the future it 's theirs in the further grace of the covenant upon condition of their believing if they do live to years of discretion . answer . the position i intended to prove by the dilemma , was set down page . that the covenant of saving grace in christ expressed gen . in these words , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , is not made to a believer and his na●urall seed , to which mr c. his answer is , by telling me ▪ the covenant is theirs externally &c. which is to answer nothing to the argument which proceeded against the asserting gods covenant , gen. . . as a promise of saving grace to belong to a believers naturall seed . nor doth he prove , but dictate that gen. . . ther 's a promise concerning the externall covenant , or to any gentile believers naturall seed , or that there is any mention of church-covenant , or that ●itle to church-ordin●nces , as baptism and circumcision is derived from interest in the promise gen ▪ . . or that the parents visible faith or interest in the covenant , makes it the childrens : or that the covenant is such an ambulatory or revocable contract , as to be the infants for the present in respect of the parents faith ▪ but for the future it 's theirs in the further grace of the the covenant upon condition of believing if they live to years of discretion . these dictates are hatched in mr. c. his nest , but have nothing in the text for them , nor doth he attempt to prove them in that chapter which is termed , the explication of gen. . , &c. in like manner he dictates in that which follows . i had said , if the covenant of grace to believers seed be absolute , then either god keeps it or not : ●f he do not keep it , then he breaks his word , which is blasphemy ; if he do keep it , then it follows , that all the posterity of believers are saved , contrary to rom. . . or if some are not saved though they be in the covenant of grace , there may be apostasie of persons in the covenant of grace . in answer to which he tels me , god may be said absolutely to covenant with believers seed collectively and specifically considered , and yet all the individuall children not saved . it is absolutelely made , and made good that , that sort of persons shall be and are saved by virtue of gods covenant , for some of them are infallibly saved : the covenant is to the indefinite collective seed or children in respect of internall saving interest : else none of them dying infants should be saved . whereto i reply , the promise is to abrahams seed , gen. . ● . but that the promise is to be a god to any gentile believers naturall indefinite collective seed in respect of the internall saving interest , as such , is not true . the promise is not made indefinitely but definitely to ahrahams seed , under whom none but believers of the gentiles , or elect persons are meant , nor is it made specifically to a sort of men , but to such and such numericall persons as were abrahams seed by nature or grace : nor is it made collectively to any of them as part of the whole number of gentile-believers naturall seed , but as abrahams seed by grace , and if any of them be elect , it is made also to gentile unbelievers naturall seed under the same consideration . it is true , some of the believing gentiles seed dying infants are saved ; nor can we say that none of the unbelievers infants , dying in infancy , are saved , notwithstanding the arguments brought to prove their perishing . but none of them are saved by virtue of a promise made to that sort of persons , that is , believers naturall children ( for there is no such promise ) but by vertue of gods election , conformable to which is the promise of saving grace , gen. . . as the apostle expresly determines , rom. . , . , and consequently as election is of individuall persons ( not of a collective indefinite specificall seed as mr. c. speaks ) so is the covenant . m. c. goes on thus . supposing they are the israel of god , a part of the elect seed , yet the means of saving effect in and upon them , is the word of the covenant , rom. . . it 's through the effectuall word and engaged truth of god that that part of the church are savingly purged , eph. . , . answ. i grant this to be true , yet conceive that eph. . , . speaks of the word of promise , not barely as made , but also as accomplished in christs performance , and published by preaching , whereupon baptism follows , by both which christ sanctifies and purgeth his church savingly by the one as the means , by the other as the sign . he adds , the covenant is to the individual seed of all and each of them in respect of externall interest , and yet many of them not saved . answer . this is an exposition which is without proof , or example of the like , . that where god saith , i will be a god to abrahams seed , he means other believers , even gentiles naturall seed . that he means this in respect of externall interest onely to some . . that some of those to whom he promiseth to be a god according to the covenant of grace in christ , may not be saved . that by abrahams seed he meaneth in respect of saving effects , the indefinite collective seed of gent●le-believers , so as that it is onely made good to that sort of persons ( which were true if none but isaac and iacob were saved ; for if the promise of salvation be onely to the sort of persons , it is made good in one or two of believers seed ) but in respect of externall interest to the individual seed all and each of them , yea though the parents be but hypocrites , and not savingly in the covenant of grace themselves . he goes on . nor yet is gods faithfulness impeached or impaired , nor need the faith of believers be shaken , if this or that child should prove , live and die wicked , the force of the covenant is not to be measured by the fatall miscarriage of many of abrahams church-seed . answer . neither is gods faithfulness impeached , nor need the faith of believers be shaken , though all their chidren die wicked . it is not true , that the apostles reasoning , rom. . , . compared mentions any such church-seed of abraham , or takes them in as such , but onely the elect . mr c. doth falsly charge his adversaries doctrine , as denying any interest at all to any believers infants in the covenant . i have often granted it to the elect , but to none as believers infants . mr baillee charged me with this thing , to which i answered in my letter to him , sect. . our doctrine is as comfortable as theirs when they speak truth . it is no gospel but a dream to affirm what mr. c. doth of abrahams fancied church-seed , though it be gospel to say , god will be a god to abrahams spirituall seed elect and true believers . sect . xl. animadversions on sect. . of the same chapter , shewing that mr. c. his supposed visible interest in gods covenant is not the rule in baptizing . sect. , mr. c. sets down this conclusion , that the church in dispensing an enjoyned initiatory seal of the covenant of grace , looketh unto visibility of interest in the covenant , to guide her in the application thereof . nor is the saving interest of persons in view , which is her rule by which she is therin to proceed . concerning which i say , that i grant it if the terms be altered into plainer expressions as thus : the baptizer in the admitting a person to baptism , is not bound to stay baptism till he know a person hath saving interest in gods covenant of grace ; but it is sufficient , if he be a visible disciple or believer to admit him to baptism . and that m. c. may cease his wonder , he who confessed that it 's not to be denied that god would hav● infants of believers in some sense to be counted his , to belong to his church and family , & not to the divels as true in facie ecclesiae visibilis , &c. doth not oppose his fourth conclusion reduced to the plain terms i have set it down 〈◊〉 . yet there are sundry things in which i oppose him . . that he makes it the churches business to dispense the initiatory seale ( as he calls it ) of the covenant of grace , which i ●ake to belong to him that is sent or used to make disciples by preaching the gospel , not to the church . . that he maketh the rule of baptizing to be visible interest in the covenant , which according to the institution is visible discipleship , or faith . . that he takes that person to have visible interest in the covenant of grace , so as to have right therby to baptism , who neither by extraordinary revelation from god , nor by any act of his own , but barely by his parents profession hath a pretended visible interest in the covenant . but let 's examine what he saith , because he seems to be the selected man in new england to plead for infant-baptism . whether john the baptist did admit to baptism those which he knew would prove false and frothy , is doubtfull . mr norton mr cs. colleague . resp. ad ▪ appollon . c. prop ▪ . seems to hold the negative , and cites to that purpose , paraus and aretius . i agree with mr. c. in his position , that person● may be bapti●ed upon visible profession without knowledge of the saving state of the party , yet i do not think ananias and sapphira , or simon magus were known hypo●●ites when ●hey were b●ptized , nor do i think the texts mr c. allegeth , acts . , &c , or , , &c. or , , , prove , that any of those baptized , acts . , or . , . ; . were of the number of them that opposed paul , or proved false . if christ did say to iudas that his body was broken or given f●r him , and his blood shed , it will be hard to avoid thence the proof of universall redemption . i think it the safest and most likely tenent that judas went out afore the lords supper . for the passover it was not administred to judas by christ , nor do i know what warrant we have to make it a seal of the covenant , or to belong to a minister of the seals , as they speak . it was a rite instituted to remember the delivery out of egypt , ond appointed to be used by each family without any other administration than the providing , slaying , dressing and bringing to the table : if the prist did any thing in it , it was at the temple not at the table , each person was to take himself according to his eating , abraeham and isaac did circumcise ishmael & esau rightly according to gods command , which is the rule in administring ordinances , not covenant-in●erest . but that they did circumcise as prophets or priests at that time , to the church in their families , it is said without proof . the business of circumcising was not the work of a person as a prophet or priest to his family , but did belong to the parent or some other in his stead , though no prophet nor priest. chamier paustr . cath . tom . l c. . sect , , saith , we read of no certain minister of circumcision either in the institution or elswhere , so that there 's no obstacle but that zipporah , and the woman in the second of maccabees , c. . might circumcise . so there is nothing read by which the immolation of the paschal lamb was wont to be done in each family , is prohibited , though no priests were used . ishmael and esau , and iudas , were not visibly interessed in the covenant ; being discovered by god and christ to be such as had no interest in it . that a minister cannot of himself admit to baptism , or reject from it regularly , but by and with the churches consent , is dictated without proof . i grant that if particular persons saving interest in gods covenant and promise of grace , were the rule to baptize by , administrators could not observe the rule in faith , but doubtingly . but that such visible interest in the covenant as mr c. means , is therefore the rule to baptize by , follows not . what or where a. r. suggests to the contrary i find not , nor doth mr c. tell us . what he adds , i say visibility of the parties interest in the covenant , i say not meer visibility of faith and repentance , is quite besides the scripture , which never appoints persons to be baptized because of their visible interest in the covenant , but their visible faith and repentance . he tells us , the initiatory seal is not primarily and properly the seal of mens faith and repentance , or obedience , but of gods covenant rather ; the seal is to the covenant , even abrahams circumcision , was not primarily a seal to his faith , of righteousness , but to the righteousness of faith exhibited and offered in the covenant : yea to the covenant it self , or promise which he had believed unto righteousness . hence the covenant of grace is called the righteousness of faith , rom. . , , . the righteousness of faith speaketh on this wise , v. . and the word of faith . hence albeit abraham must walk before god , who is now about to enlarge the covenant to his as well as to make it to him in a church-reference , gen. . , &c. yet the initiatory seal in his as as well as their flesh , is gods covenant , v. . or a sacramentall sign firstly and expresly of gods covenant , v. . & . compared ; albeit it implicitly oblige him and them to other duties formerly mentioned . hence acts . , , the seal of baptism is put to the promise as the choice matter and foundation in view , and as that was a ground of repentance it self ; repent and be baptized for the promise is to you , not , for you have repented as if that were the thing to be firstly sealed by baptism , but the promise rather . answ. the inititory seal is a late devised term not found in scripture and it is used upon an erroneous conceit as if the nature of sacraments were to be seals of the covenant , and baptism were the initiatory seal . but the term [ initiatory seal ] is chosen rather than the word [ baptism ] ( though it be the scripture term ) by mr. c. and others , that they may shuffle what they say in and out under the term of ininitiatory seal , sometimes understanding by it circumcision sometimes baptism as if they were the same and what is said of the one were meant of the other , which is meer fallacious arguing . but setting aside mr. c's lately devised term , the end of christian baptism is in the first place , that thereby the party baptiz●d may testifie his repentance , faith and hope in christ , love to the people of god , and resolution to follow christ to the death . and this is proved in my exercit : in the twelfth reason of my doubting about pedobaptism pag. . in the part of this review sect. . from these scriptures rom. . ▪ . . cor. . . gal. . , . ephe. . . col. . pet. . . where the phrase of the answer of a good conscience , as beza rightly observes in his annot. on that place , alludes to the manner of the primitive baptizing after the answer to the questions propounded concerning the parties repentance , faith and obedience : which were held so necessary to baptism in the first ages of the christian church that none was baptized without it ; yea and when infant baptism came up even till our dayes , and in some places according to the common prayer book even to the infants the same questions are propounded , yea the lutherans confesse that without faith in infants it is in vain to baptize them . the continuance of which questions , as lud : vives comment : in augustin : de civit : dei l. . c. . rightly saith , proves the original use of baptism to be of those only that could answer those questions . in respect of which basil and others call baptism the seal of faith , tertullian of repen●ance , the sealing of faith , chamier : paustr : cath. tom . . l. . c. . cites the treatise of the spirit under the name of bazil ch . . saying , confession goes before bringing to salvation , baptism followes sealing our consent . whence he infers thus manifestly salvation is ascribed to confession , but baptism is the seal of confession . no where that ever i could find among the ancients is baptism termed the seal of the covenant . bucer on acts. . . to be baptized in the name of the lord jesus christ ▪ is by the sign of baptism to testifie that were the believers in christ for remission of sins . grot : annot : on mark. . . [ and is baptized ] he that believeth , and by baptism maketh profession of his faith . so that the profession of faith by it is the primary end and use of baptism nor is there any place of scripture that i know which doth make the end of baptism to be the sealing of gods covenant to us ▪ and here by the way it is to be noted what shifting is used in this matter by pedobaptist . they say the seal follows the covenant and the parties interest in it , and this covenant they make the righteousness of faith as mr. c. here , but when they are pressed that then in vain are infants non-elect and non-believers baptized , who are not in that covenant , they fly to an imaginary external covenant , and visible interest in that as sealed by it , and there by a right to be baptized ; which yet by their own confession is not the covenant of grace , nor by sealing that interest is the covenant of grace sealed , for that is gods covenant of righteousness by faith , not the baptized persons covenant , or his right . as for mr. c's . observations here they are false and slighty . for neither is it true that it is hence ( because baptism is not primarily the seal of mans faith and repentance , but of gods covenant rather ) abrahams circumcision was called a seal of the righteousness of faith : but the contrary rather is true . for if it were a seal of the righteousness of faith which he had yet being uncircumcised , it sealed rather his own faith , and the righteousness by it already obtained , than gods covenant to him of something to come . and if circumcision be called gods covenant , yet it follows not that baptism is rather a seal of gods covenant , than of mans faith and repentance . that which he saith of acts. . . . is as vain : for the promise is not alledged there as sealed in baptism , or giving any right to baptism , but meerly as a motive to them to repent and to be baptized in the sense i give antipaedobapt . part . . sect. . in this part of the review sect. . . , , ▪ wherein mr· c's frivolous interpretation is examined . and though the apostle do not bid them be baptized because they had repented , yet he bids them first to repent and then be baptized . infants have no visible title to baptism because they make no visible personal profession . parental faith in the covenant made to them and their children is but a delusion . what ever may be said of the texts deuteronomy . . . deuteronomy . . , , . &c. concerning taking it of children ( of which in the examining of mr. b's remainder ) there is no visibility of infants church-membership in the christian churches mentioned in scripture . i know not how the believing gods testimony is the assent of charity . i still say there is no judgment of charity concerning infants who do nothing which may be interpreted to the better or the worse . mr. c. if he had recited my words fully in my examen pag. . might have found my words to yeeld him no help for his fourth conclusion . i pass on to the fifth . sect . xli . sect. . animadversions on the sixth sect . of the same ch : shewing that christ is not head of any unsound members , no● parents profession of faith unites children to christ so as to entitle them to baptism . sect. sixthly he sets down this conclusion , that christ is in scripture considered as head of the visible church in which are many members of christ the ●ead in that respect , which prove unsound , as well as in other respects he is considered as head of the visible church , wherein are none but elect ones . concerning which i say , that part of the invisible church which is on earth professing faith , being both visible and invisible , visible in respect of their profession , invisible in respect of their sincere believing ▪ ●t must needs follow that christ is head of the visible , being head of the invisible church in respect of those persons which are of both . and i grant that christs headship being a metaphor and nothing , sundry things as superiority , goverment , direction , union , participation● of the same life , sense , motion &c. in respect of some of these christ may be said to be head of that part which is only visible , as in giving them officers , outward order , direction , help against persecutors &c. but that in scripture christ is made head to any unsound members i find not . mr. c. urgeth gal. . . that to abraham and his seed were the promises made ; that is to christ , yet not to christ personally , for the promise of pardon of sin did not belong to him , and to christ personall were not the promises made , but in him confirmed , gal. . . with . but rather of christ collectively head and members , gentiles and iewes , v. . . as gen. . . the seed of eve is christ , with his members in and with him . answer . i stick not to grant gal. . , by [ christ ] to be meant not onely christ personally considered , but also collectively , as beza , ●iseator , & others conceive ; yet i do not think the arguments brought by them so cogent for that sense , but that it may be understood of christ personall as a common person receiving promises for all his members . for the scope of the apostle to prove gen●iles and jewes to have one manner of justification , is obtained by understanding the promises made to his person as a common person in behalf of all as well as to them as in him , and eternal life is promised to all the members of christ if it be promised to christ as a common person standing in their stead as the second adam . as for mr c. his reasons , the former is against his own opinion . for if by christ be meant christ collectively , that is , christ and his church , then the promises be made to christs person with his church ; for what is christ collectively but christs person with his church . and if the pardon of sin be a promise , then it must be made known to christs person included in christ collective : therfore either it must be said , that the promises were made to christ collective respectively , to wit , some to his person , as that he would uphold him , raise him from the dead , give him glory , others to his church , to pardon their sins , renew their nature , &c. or that christs person had the promise of pardon of sin made to himself as a common person , but not for himself as needing it , but for his church or in their stead , as cor. . . the promises might be said to be given to christs person as a common person , gal. . and yet confirmed in christ as a surety of them , v . yet in this place the term [ head ] is not used , and therefore not apposite to mr. c. his purpose . but mr c. propounds a question , whether this in gal. . & cor. . , . be spoken of the visible or invisible church , and answers it , that it seems the places admit of the consideration of the church as visible . first , in that the apostle speaketh of all the galatian church-members as well as others as one in christ , gal. . . now were all these members elected will any say ? i suppose not yet all are one in christ their head . answer . mr. c. a little before said , gal● ● . , could not be made to christs person , because the promise of the pardon of sin is not made to christ personall , which goes upon this supposition , that the pardon of sin is promised to the seed , gal. . . but sure this promise is made onely to the elect , not to all galatian visible church-members : yea the very scope and coherence of what goes before and after , shew that the promises v. . were of the spirit , v. ● . of the inheritance , v. . of life , v. . which are proper to the elect . and therefore to apply the speech , gal. . . to the unfound members of the visible church , sheweth meer oscitancy . nor is it necessary that because it is said , gal. . . ye are all one in christ iesus , that this must be understood of every galatian church-member , but of all those of whom he had said , v. . that they were all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus . and after , v. . that they were heirs according to the promise , which is true onely of the elect of them . and for what he adds , secondly in that he speaks of them all as sacramentally one with christ in baptism , gal. . , . compared , so cor. , , as if because he saith , they were all baptized , he meant it of all that are baptized , it is refuted from the very words [ by one spirit made to drink into one spirit , put on christ ] which , if there were no more , do shew that these speeches though indefinite , yet pro subjecta materia , must be limited to those visible baptized persons , who were sincere believers , and united to christ by his spirit , and so those words , ephes. . & . . col. . . and many more are to be understood . and to the other reasons , that christ hath headlike influences into the officers and members , many whereof are not savingly joyned to him , and that it is the church wherein he hath set diversity of officers , which is the visible church , not the invisible . i answer , christ as a superior , and in some other respects , may have headlike influences of command , governing , &c. on some not savingly joyned to him , but not the influence of union by his spirit , which is that which makes any members of christ , of his flesh and of his bones , ephes. . . & . . nor is it true , that christ doth not set officers in the invisible church , though it be true that he sets no officers in the church that is onely invisible , but indeed he sets officers in the church invisible , and chiefly to and for them , while they are visible . and therfore the apostle , tim. . . said , he endured all things for the elects sake . hence , saith mr. c. profession of faith unites a man to christ as head of the visible church without sincerity . but the scripture saith not so , that any is united to christ as head without the inhabitation of the spirit . mr. c. adds . hence also a pa●ent , making profession of faith in the covenant of grace as invested with church-covenant in reference to his children , it doth unite them also to christ as head of the visible church so far as to give right to solemn initiation of them into the fellowship of the church in circumcision as of old , or baptism , as now . parents acts in this case being in the face of the visible church , their childrens acts ; ●s the places quoted , deut. . , , & . , , , , , & , , , declared . answer . mr. c. tells us , hence , &c. and this is the consectary he would infer from his fifth conclusion , and minding discourse about it : but how from any thing said before [ that christ is the head of the visible church , that visible professors , though not sincere , are united to christ as visible head ] this follows , that parents profession unites the child to christ , so as to give him right to baptism , is a riddle to me . if it were formed into an argument thus , if the visible professors confession of faith unites him to christ as visible head , then it unites the child so far as to give him right to baptism : but the visible professors , &c. ergo. i should deny the consequence of the major , and expect it to be proved ad graecas calendas , nor is there any proof in that which follows : for were it granted that the parents act were the childs act , yet it follows not that it is the childs act to give a right or title to baptism without an institution . none of the texts produced , no nor any other do shew , that the parents act of professing faith , did entitle the child to circumcision , much less to baptism . cornelius his child was not entitled to circumcision , though he and his house feared god , was a devout man , gave much alms to the poor , and prayed to god alway , acts. . . even in circumcisi on the use of it had its rule onely from the command , as i have often poved . not one of mr. c. his texts mentions the parents acts as entitling the child to fellowship of the church , but obliging to duty , deut. . , , there 's an injunction , that all the males should thrice a year appear before god ; but this was enjoyned not to parents onely , but also to children married or unmarried . and if it prove any thing like what mr. c. would , it proves rather the males act to stand for the females , than the parents for the children . more likely in this the younger males did appear insteed of the aged weak , & so the childs act went for the parents . however here 's nothing of the parents act giving right to initiation into fellowship of the church , there was nothing required to that in the national church of israel but their descent . deut. . , . there 's no mention of a parents act for his child intitling him to solemn initiation into fellowship of the church . what is said [ thou hast avouched this day the lord to be thy god ] is not said to be done by the parents for the children , nor to be done to entitle them to solemn initiation into the fellowship of the church . deut. . , , , , . whose act soever is mentioned whether of the parents , or captains , elders , officers , or men of israel . it was an act done in behalf of the nation both those born already and those to be born after , not to entitle them to initiation into fellowship of the church , but to bind them the more firmly to their duty , and therefore none of these instances are to the point of parents acts in the face of the visible church taken as the childrens acts for solemn initiation in church fellowship . yet if they had , that this had been enough for baptism and church-membership in the christian gentile churches will not be proved , till the rule about circumcision , and the constitution of the jewish church be a rule to us about baptism , and the church-membership of the christian church , which neither agrees with christs or his apostles appointment or the practise in the n. t. nor with the new english principles of church constitution & goverment , but judiazing notions opposi●e to the gospel . what he saith the parents omission to circumcise his child is counted the childs act of breaking gods conant gen. . . depends on this that the parents omission of circumcision is the childs act of breaking covenant . but many protestant divines and others understand it of persons of years as piscat . schol. in locum . diodati , new annot. grotius &c. and though chamier counted it to be understood of the infant tom paustrat : cath. l. . c. . sect. . &c. yet he expounds the verse passively thus , the male , the flesh of whose foreskin is not circumcised that soul shall be cut off from his people : my covenant is broken . either way expounded it is inpertinent to mr. cs. purpose . they that expound it ( as aben ezrae , apud christoph. cartwright on the place ) of the parent understand both the fault and the punishment to be his . it is true iohn . . , . matth. . , to . mark. . , to . parents believing is accepted for the cure of children , and so mark. . . the faith of the bringers of the palsy man was accepted , but this doth not prove a title to baptism by the parents confession any more than by the midwives or gossips bringing to the fo●● ▪ nor was it the confession of faith , but reality ; though not known to men , which christ lookd on , so that if this be a good reason ▪ the fathers praying in secret though not in the face of the visible church should give title to baptism . after many dictates without proof he tels us , as the covenant laid hold on by the lively faith of gratious parents as made with respect to their elect children hath mighty force to effect very gratious things in the elect feed , yea albeit dying young , as sundry of those elect ones of abrahams race did rom. . . yea so as to make their outward washings to become effectual in christ to an inward cleansing ephes. . . . yea so as to bring in and bring home many of such covenant-children . whence those revolters beloved for their covenant-fathers sake as such , rom. . . and hence made as a ground of their return ▪ v. , . so is there such validity in the covenant invested with church covenant , albeit but unworthily oft-times held forth by the parents , which doth beget upon the children an externall filiall relation unto god and to his spouse the visible church , whence that respect of children of god and his church , by vertue of that espousall covenant , ezek. . . even in the children of idolatrous members , v. : . great is the force of this way of the covenant so cloathed . albeit many unworthy members are gi●t up in it , to hold them and theirs in externall communion , jer. . . untill either the church be divorced from god , or the particular members be disfranchised by some church-censure of such a covenant-privilege . answer . though this reasoning contain nothing but dictates unproved , and incoherent , yet sith it carries some shew of an argument à comparatis , i shal say somwhat to it . . there 's not aword in the texts alleged , that shews what mr c. here asserts , that the covenant laid hold upon by the lively faith of gracious parents as made with respect to their children , hath mighty force to effect very gracious things in the elect seed : nor is there a word in those texts to prove such a covnnant made to any gracious parent concerning his naturall children . it is true , rom. . it is said , the word took effect ; and this i deny not to be the word of promise to abraham , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed . but then it is expresly said , v. , . that this seed of abraham is not his children by natural generation , but the speciall choice seed whether they were his seed according to nature , or ingraffed : there 's not a word of the efficacy of this covenant by the lively faith of the parents , but by vertue of gods election , v. . the text , ephes. . . seems to me to contain not onely the word of promise , as sanctifying or purifying the church , but also the word of narration contained in the gospel , as luke . acts . . & . . . joh. . . . rom. . . preached and believed , not by the parents but the parties purified , acts . . who as they hear the word and believe , so are baptized upon their believing . it is true that the jewes hereafter to be ingraffed again , are said , according to the election to be beloved for the fathers , rom. . . but this is meant of the jewes onely , and it is not at all meant of the immediate parents of those jewes reingraffed ( for they doubtless will be infidels ) but of the ancient fathers , abraham , isaac , jacob , out of the remembrance of their following god , and gods covenant to them , which were both singular , and therefore cannot be verrified of every believers natural children as it is there meant and shall be verified of them . . there 's not a proof for the other part of the comparison , that there is any such validity in the covenant invested with church-covenant albeit unworthyly oftentimes held forth by the parents to beget upon the children an external filial relation unto god and to his spouse the church visible . for ezek. . mentions gods covenant which he swear , not their's , by which they became his , and those whose sons and daughters were born to him v. . are said to sacrafice them to be devoured , had caused them to be slain , and deliverd them to pass through the fire for them . mr. c. confesseth they were idolatrous members , and the text mentions their idolatry to be of the highest kind , even the sacraficing their children , and if these were in the covenant of grace and in church-covenanant , and did thereby beget an external filial relation to god , and to his spouse the visible church , then may the worst of men even open idolatrers that offer their children to moloch and sacrafice them to the devil be in the covenant of grace , and in church-covenant , and therby in those whom god hates and who go a whoring after idols , yea the devils in a most horrid manner , there may be validity in this horrid estate to beget an external filial relation unto god & to his spouse , the visible church for their children . horrendum dictu ! the meaning of the text , and the impertinency of its allegation by the assembly , by mr. c. and others hath been often shewed . jerem. . . makes nothing to the purpose . god in the wilderness had made the whole house of israel to cleave to him in the covenant at mount sinai , and by his special deliverances and providences for them . what is this to prove that the idolatrous posterity of that people are by the covenant clothed with church-covenant held to god they and theirs in external church-communion until either that church be devorced from god , o● the particular members disfranchised by some church censure of a church covenant privilege ? . were the first part of the comparison proved , that the covenant laid hold on 〈◊〉 the lively faith of the parents as made with respect to their elect children hath mighty force to effect very gratious things in the elect seed , yet there is not any liklyhood that the other part should be true , that a bare dissembled profession should make such an external relation to god and his church , as if because peters faith and confession obtains from god a special privilege , judas his profession must obtain something of god for his children though he were a devil . if there be strength in these dictates of mr. c. their 's weakness is nothing . the answers to the objections of i. s. proceed upon a conceit of a relative grace , and implicit calling , and of in-being in christ without either christs spirit , or faith , or profession of faith , which are things that have no scripture grounds . the absurdity objected against his opinion that it entails grace to generation , that it upholds a national church , ●e puts off only thus , he knowes we in n. e. which hold the one , yet do not maintain the other in the usual sence of a national church . but this shewes not how he will acquit his doctrine from maintaining that by consequence , which is disavowed by those of n. e. for if there be such a covenant and church covenant now as there was deut. . , , . and ezek . . . . of validity to beget an external filial relation to god and to his visible spouse the church , it cannot be denied , but that the worst idolaters even papists are visible church-members , and by consequent the whole nation elder and ●onger are in the church . which what it makes less than such a national church as was of the jews i understand not . sect . xlii . animadversions on sect. : of the same chap. shewing that the body of the jewish church even the worst of them was not under the covenant of grace in respect of external interest therein . in the seaventh sect. mr. c ▪ sets down this conclusion , that the body of the jewish church was under the covenant of grace as invested with church covenant , in respect of external interest therein . in which as almost in all his writings about this point , there 's much ambiguity . he neither sheweth whom he means by the body of the jewish church whether every jew or some only , and if some who those are whether the most part or the chiefest ; nor what he means by the covenant of grace , what promise they are under nor how they are under it : nor doth explain what he means by church-covenant or investing with it , nor what is the external interest therein which they have , nor how they are under the covenant of grace as invested with church covant in respect of external interest therein , and not with respect to internal interest . for my part so far as i am able to discern his meaning this is it , that all the jews from the promise made to abraham i wil be thy god & the god of thy seed gen. . . have this privilege ; that all should be accounted members of that church and the males circumcised . but i know not how it comes to pass , this author either affects , or it is his vein to use ambiguous expressions when he might use plain , and to talk in a new phrases hard to be understood of the covenant , seal , church-seed &c. and not to explain his conclusions afore he proves , nor to shew how he proves out of the text he allegeth , but leaves his reader to fish out his meaning as he can from scattered passages . however i shall view his dictates . he denies that the jewes had only a covenant of grace among them which was made to some choice ones among them . and yet the apostle directly teacheth that the promise i will be a god to thee and thy seed as a promise of saving grace was not made to all israel , but the elect only rom. . , , . and clear it is that the covenant made with the body of the israelites at mount sinai was the covenant of workes , as is plain from rom. . . cor. . , , . gal. . , and . , . heb. ▪ , , . &c. and . , , . it is false that he hath any where proved that the external & ecclesiastical right to circumcision came from the circumcised persons interest in the covenant of grace invested with church-covenant . neither did god appoint all them to receive the visible seal thereof meaning circumcision : for he did not appoint the females or males under eight dayes old to be circumcised though in the covenant as well as the infant male of eight dayes old . he bids us see gen. . , , , , , , . and . , , . and . , , . but i can see none of his dictates in those texts . i find there that god made a covenant with abraham . after renewed it to isaac and jacob assuring to their inheriting posterity the inheritance of canaan , the multiplying of them &c. that god injoyned circumcision to them for a memorial and assurance of that covenant . this covenant as , containing the promise of canaan &c. to the natural postority of abraham , isaac and jacob ▪ is expressed to be by reason of abrahams obedience gen. . . circumcision is required gen. . and exod. . levit. . obedience is required to the laws given by moses . they that term the covenant exo. . a covenant of works speak sutable to the apostle rom. . . gal. . . yet i deny not but in covert expressions gen. . and elswere god promised christ to the elect whether jews or gentiles and blessing that is righteousness and eternal life by faith in him gal. . . &c. which abraham and all the ancient saints expressed by faith iohn . . . and elswhere . now it is not true , that those covenant fathers abraham , isaac and iacob recieved the covenant evaneglical in referrence to their natural children : nor in respect of justification before god and external life had a contrary covenant of life and death , grace and workes made with them . for though the jews succeding were under the whole law of moses because of transgressions , yet not so as to have life by it gal. . , , , . no● is it any absurdity to say that the legal justitiaries who rested in the law were at one and the same time externally under the blessing of god in respect of their outward prosperity in canaan , and yet internally under the curse of god gal. . . as seeking righteousness before god by their observing the law. it is , no where said that any other than abraham is the root or first fruits to his seed rom . . nor they termed his seed , lump , branches any other way than either naturally or spiritually , that is by natural generation or by following his faith by vertue of election rom. . doth not say , abraham was the root as recieving the covenant for the branches , but as propagating the branches . nor need we say that he either received a covenant o● works alone , in referrence to them all elected , or that he recieved the covenant of grace with ecclesiastical respect to them all . the plain doctrine of the scripture is set down above , mr. c's . dictates are meer phantasms without scripture . the substance of the covenan● is a novel expression , and ambiguous . i deny not the covenant gen. . to be evangelical . yet i concieve it not purely such , but as i say in my exercit. pag. . mixt , that is containing political and evangelical promises . i deny not but it was the jews covenant-right to have the tabernacle of god or their ordinances as their privilege , yea and his presence therein until the messiah came , yet so as that when thay set up idols the glory of god departed from them ezek. . , . they had also gods oracles with them , deliverance from egypt , christ to be with them in the wilderness : nor do i deny these to have bin by vertue of christs mediation , yet so far as these were national mercies they were proper to the jews . what ever be meant by the covenant & the promise rom . they do not agree to gentile believers . and though i say they were by vertue of christs mediation , yet i concieve the mediation of christ was directly for the elect only , for others only obliquely , by consequent , and by accident by reason of the cohabitation of them on earth . i deny not that filling the temple with smoake rev. . . allusively to that which was kings . . , . isai. . , , , . might restifie the presence of god in the churches after christs ascension in a way of mercy to his people , and for their sakes in a way of justice against his and their enemies . i neither do , nor need say that canaan was all which god promised the jews i grant it was promised to them as an everlasting possession gen. . . but the ▪ wrod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the gr : translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , everlasting , notes freequently but a duration of some age or ages as chron. . . &c. i deny not but the patriarchs looked futher than canaan heb. . , . i deny not that the promise of canaan was in some sense ratified in christ , and all other temporal blessings to the elect now cor. . , , . that christ is said to drive out their enemies exod. . , . and that the land they possessed was called immanuel● land es●i . that sundry were excluded from thence for unbelief heb. ▪ la●● compared with ch . . though if it be not warily explained moses and aaron should be guilty of the gospel sin of unbelief . if god promised to be a god to them , and as one branch thereof instanceth in giving them canaan gen. , , . then the promise of canaan is a branch of the promise , i wil be a god to them ▪ if the proselyted strangers were to have abrahams covenant sealed to them and theirs by circumcision , yet had no lots in can●an , then persons were to be circumcised to whom the promise belonged not . i grant that christ was mediator of the covenant with abraham so far as it contains evangelical promises , but deny that it was held out to all the jews by the sacrafices . for though the typical sacr●fices in respect of purif●ing the flesh did purge the whole congregation , yet none were pur●ed by christs blood , but the elect . the high preist bare the names of the . tribes and these represented the elect for whom christ made intercession , and atonement not every i●raelite rom. . . what mr. c. saith , the covenant of works holds out pardon or mercy to transgress i do much question . it seems to me that a●ab , though under a covenant of works yet , had some mercy kings . . and whether the offence against some of the laws were not in some respect forgiven levit. . to them , who had not faith in christ , for the sacrafice they offered ( which were all offered according to the law heb. . . ) i do make question . nor do i think but that by the covenant of the law in respect of temporal evils there was some pardon by vertue of obedience to legal prescriptions , though some sins as of presumption num . were not , no not to them that were in the covenant of grace , as its li●ely in eli. his case sam. . . see gethard . ioh. voss. resp . ad judic . ravensp . c. . . concerning the covenant of the law though it require no faith in christ , or repentance for justification , yet whether according to the covenant of the law some repentance were not accepted for revoking some temporal evils contrary to the promises of the covenant with the iews at mount sinai may be doubted from deut. . . and . , , , , . but of these chapters . more hereafter in answer to m. b. i grant no salvation but by christ , but denies that therefore al the iews best & worst had salvation & external covenant-right : nor though al the iews best , & worst , had the same dispensers of the covenant mentioned exod. . . . & . . . wil it follow they had all right at least externally in the covenant of grace . for that speaks of the covenant of the law . i grant that the first covenant of works was made withal in adam , and that the covenant gen. . was a particular covenant made with the seed of abraham , yet the covenant at mount sinai was not made with all men , without distinction , but only with israel , whom he brought out of egypt ▪ the jews ro. . . were broken off from the invisible church of true believers , which was in that nation in their progenitors , as i shew in the first part of this review sect. . &c. i agree with mr. c. that the covenant in horeb deut. . . . with deut. . . had the stipulation of , do this and live , and that the covenant of the law was differnt from the promise , gen. . that it held out temporals , this externals . how the gentiles were ingraffed in the room of the iewes , and not into the externall right & privilege , as by mr c. imagines is shewed in the review , ubi supra , that the covenant of sinai was without mercy , i question as above . and methinks , ezek. . . proves , that god would remember his covenant with israel in the dayes of their youth , and shew them mercy for it . now the covenant made with israel in the dayes of its youth , is meant of the covenant made with them when they came out of egypt : for so the whole description of their pitiful estate ( which can be referred to no other than the time of their bondage in egypt , v. , , , . after which was his covenant in the dayes of their youth , v. ) shews the covenant in the dayes of their youth to have been the covenant at mount sinai . and so the new annot. on ezek. , , [ i sware unto thee ] i made a solemn covenant with thee that i would take thee to be my people , exod. & chapters , ier. . . piscat . s ▪ hol : in v. ▪ nudissima ] i. e. destituta omni ope pressa , sc : servitute in aegypto , in v : , visitari te per mosen educendo te ex aegypto & pangendo tecum fedus atque ita ducendo te in uxorem . grot. in ezek ▪ . , populus enim in aegypto natus est in v. . & sic exprimitur miseria ge●tis in aegypto in v. , & ingressus sum pactum tecum ] in sinai . as for mr c. his paraphrase on ezek. . . i will remember my covenant with [ thee ] not with this or that particular jew , but with them all in an ecclesiastical way , and in respect of externall right : albeit some onely had the saving benefits thereof , as being the select covenanters mainly intended , he therein supposeth that some had the saving benefit of that covenant , which is contrary to rom. . that by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in gods sight . and he supposeth the covenant was made with them all in an ecclesiasticall way , and in respect of externall right . which what it is else but this , that they should all have a right to circumcision , and other ecclesiastical privileges , i know not : whereas the covenant was of prosperity in canaan , continuance of long life , &c. to them upon obedience to the law he gave them by moses , which notwithstanding they had broken , & were carried captive ; yet he would remember his covenant made with that people when he brought them out of aegypt , and upon the prayers of daniel , &c. restore them to their own land , esay , , , &c. teacheth the jewes , that notwithstanding they were evill , yet he would for his names sake , that the heathens might not say that god could not deliver them and bring them from the north , v. , , . the like is , ezek. , . the objection from rom. , , is ill framed , and as ill answered : . it is proved from the text , that the promise of ful●●lling , of which the apostle speaks , was the promise to abraham , i will be the god of thy seed , gen. . . from the terms used rom. . , . which shews that the question was , how gods word could be true concerning abrahams seed , if the jewes were rejected , as the apostle supposeth , v. ● . . that the answer is directly this , that this promise was not made to all israel , or to all the children of the flesh , that is , begotten of abraham by naturall generation , for it was not promised to ishmael and esau , but to the elect as isaac and jacob , whence this proposition ariseth , they onely are children of the promise ( that is by an usuall hebra●sm ) subjects of the promise to whom it belong , as children of wrath to whom wrath belongs , a son of perdition to whom perdition belongs ) who are elect , therefore not all the naturall seed of abraham . and consequently the promise . gen. . . belonged not in the evangelicall sense to the body of the jewes , even the worst . now what doth mr. c. answer ? he distinguisheth between children of the promise , in respect of externall filiation , and externall salvation , and applies it thus , in the later they were not , but if you take it of the church-seed of the promise , and such as were externally adopted of god , and instated in the covenant of grace as invested with church covenant , so they were children even of the free covenant of blessing in christ , acts , , , and had the promise indefinitly , as deut : . , jerem : . , gen. . . in which answer . . he makes a distinction to include them in the promise whom the apostle excludes from it . . whereas the apostle determines the elect onely to be included in the promise taken in an evangelicall sense , mr. c. includes the elect and non-elect , even the worst of the iewes whom the apostle excludes . . he abuseth acts . , , deut : . , by interpreting them as belonging to the worst of the jewes in respect of externall right , which are express about turning from iniquities and circumcising the heart , the second objection is better framed , yet not so fully as had been requisite : mr c. his conclusion is , that the covenant of grace as invested with church-covena●nt , belonged to all the iewes even the worst of them , in respect of externall right to outward ordinances . but that is false : for it did not belong to the children after the flesh , to the jerusalem that then was , which was in bondage with her children , they were to be cast out being of the bond●woman , gal. . , , , , . ergo , the covenant of grace , &c. again , they to whom belongs the covenant of grace as invested with church-covenant in respect of externall right , are children of the promise , gen. . . but many of the iewes were not children of the promise , gen. . . as is proved from gal. . , , rom. . ergo , now what doth mr. c. answer ? he tells us , that they are called children of the flesh , not begotten by naturall generation , for then isaac also should be a child of the flesh . but he is called a child of the flesh , who though born by naturall generation of abraham , yet sought righteousness by the law , which was not ierusalem of old , but ierusalem which was when paul wrote this , long after christs time . res. but was not it true also of the ierusalem that was when christ was ? did not our lord christ deny them to be abrahams childrē , & told them they were the divels children , iohn . , . though he granted them to be abrahams seed by natural generation , v. . and yet mr c calls them abrahams church-seed , or church-seed of the promise instated in the covenant of grace , as invested also with church-cavenant , children even of that free covenant of blessing in christ , acts . , , and had the promises indefinitly , as deut. , . jer. , . gen. . . &c. beloaging to them , rom. . . and were children of god , christs , matth. , . i deny not but iohn . . those that rejected christ are called christs own , but not because of their right in him , or promise to them to own them as in the covenant of grace , but as they were ingaged to him in respect of his deliverance out of aegypt , and other mercies to them , and their nearness of consanguinity to him , as paul calls israel his flesh , rom. . , christ being from them according to the flesh , rom. , . but to say that even then they were in the covenant of grace when they received not christ , is to conceive they were in the olive when they were broken off . and yet i deny not that they had in christs time a right to circumcision , but no externall right to the covenant of grace , as mr c. dreams . sect . lxiii . that the covenant at mount sinai was a covenant of works , and not of evangelical grace , and that the iewish church and state were but one body . a third objection against mr c. his sixth conclusion is , they were under the old and first covenant which was formerly , &c. and not under the new , or in the covenant of grace . to this he answers , that even sinai covenant could not disanull that covenant formerly made with them in abraham , and being much later than it , gal : . , . and after , when the covenant is said to be new and old , it is not divisio generis in species , but subjecti in adjuncta . so the phrases [ first and second ] heb. , note not two testaments specifically different , but numerically . besides , it 's called a first and second testament , scil ▪ in order of succession : so the former is said to be faulty comparatively , not absolutely . in a word , in way and manner of dispensation , that was different from the covenant now dispensed in respect of ceremony of administration , not in the essentials . reply , the answer of mr c. i conceive is reduced to these two points , . that the jewes were under both covenants , that of sinai , and that of abraham : . that these two covenants the first and the second , the new and old , mentioned heb : , & . differ in the way and manner of dispensation , in respect of ceremony of administration , not in the essentials . to which i reply , that this is contrary to the apostles supposition , that the same men which were under the covenant of mount sinai , should be under the promise : for he supposeth them to be cast out , gal : . , , and saith , v. , we are not children of the bondwoman , that is , under the law , v : , but of the free , that is , the promise . yea , cha : . , if yee be led by the spirit ye are not under the law. the like whereto is said , rom : : , gal : , , , , i deny not but that the iews who were under the covenant of grace , that is , believers in christ were both under the obedience of the law , and the hope of the gospel , and under the covenant of the law so far as concerned their prosperity in canaan , but not in respect of righteousness and life , or any other ecclesiasticall privilege . as for the other part of the answer , i find mr perkins on gal : , , , saying it is a main pillar in popish religion , that the law of moses and the gospel are all one in substance , &c. which i know not well how to distinguish from mr c. his position , that the new and old covenant differ not in essentials . but let 's examine it , the essentials of a thing are the genus and difference : it is granted that the new and old , first and second covenant differ not in the genus , no more doth the covenant with adam in innocency with noah after the flood , they are all covenants of god : but that there is no essentiall difference distinguishing between the covenant at mount sinai , and the new covenan● ; and that they differ in way and manner of dispensation , in respect of ceremony of administration , not in the essentials , ●s i am assured , a manifest error both against scripture , and i think the authors themselves , though not only mr c. here , but also the assembly confession of faith , c. . art. . saith , the covenant of grace was administred , &c. and is called the old testament , which to be meant of the covenant of mount sinai , i conceive from these words of mr m : d●f●nce page . alas sir , why do you run into this needless and erroneous digression ? i said in my sermon that the morall law was added years after the covenant with abraham , not as a part of that covenant , but as a school-master to whip them to christ , that they finding the impossibility of keeping the law , might more earnestly long after christ , exhibited in those shadowes of rites and sacrifices , &c. but to say that this covenant mentioned in the eighth of the hebrews , was the covenant of works , is a most erroneous doctrine : look into the text and you shall find that the covenant which is there mentioned ( which god finds fault with , and calls the first covenant , in opposition to this better covenant ) had ordinances of divine worship , had a sanctuary , a tabernacle , , priests and high-priests , sacrifices and other rites belonging to the administration of it . sir , was this the covenant of works ? i hope you will not own it in your next . mr anthony burgess , another assembly man , vindic. legis , lect. , maintains with a distinction , the law at mount sinai to be a covenant of grace , like whereto are the opinions of mr john ball of the covenant of grace . ch . , page , dr. samuel boulton , true bounds of christian freedom , page ▪ &c. mr thomas blake , vindic. foeder . c. , &c. but as in other things there is much dictating besides the scriptures , in the received writings of men , so in this . mr c. saith , the difference between the old and new covenant , is in the way and manner of dispensation in respect of ceremony of administration , not in the essentials . concerning which it is to be observed , that to dispense is to lay out as a steward doth lay out money . to dispense a covenant may be understood either by making it known , or performing the things promised on either side ; the same may be conceived to be meant by administration . the ceremony of administration i understand not what it is , unless by it be meant the rites of the old and new testament . this then seems to be either all or the main difference mr c. makes between the covenant made with israel at mount sinai , and the new covenant confirmed in the blood of christ with jewes and gentiles ; that the former had circumcision , the passover , sacrifices , &c. by which the covenant of grace was made , or the things promised conferred , the new covenent had baptism and the lords supper . a covenant is a promise , and so an action ; and when mutuall there 's a reciprocall action . i know not what other predicament to place it in . the essentials of a thing are in corporeall substances , matter and forme , in other beings those things which in proportion to them shew what it is , and wherein it is differenced from others under the same genus , which essentials the logicians call the genus and difference . the essentiall difference of one action from another , is the terminus or effect , as heating from cooling , in the object , subject , end . a covenant being essentially a promise , differs essetntially from another promise , when the things promised are different , as the promise of land differs essentially from the promise of life ; and when the conditions are different , though the things promised be the same , as the promise of land to one for so much money is essentially different from the promise of land upon the condition of thanks . the covenant of works and of grace , are terms not used in scripture . but rom. . , , election by grace and of works , rom , , it is said , to him that worketh the reward is reckoned not according to grace , but according to debt , ephes. . , , yee are saved by grace , not of works , tim : . , who hath saved us , and called us with an holy calling , not according to our works , but according to his own purpose and grace , titus . . he saved us not by works of righteousness which we have done , but according to his own mercy . yet i think the distinction right and good of the covenant of grace and the covenant of works . and the difference between them is , . in the thing promised , the one promiseth life upon obedience to the law given , but not strength to do it ; the other promiseth the spirit to inable for doing . . in the condition the one promiseth life upon perfect obedience , the other upon faith in christ. these differences are confirmed from sundry texts , rom : . . cor. . , , gal. . , , , &c. i think in a promise the different end of the promiser makes not an essential difference . i think it is the same promise essentially when one promiseth land upon condition of giving thanks , to shew his bounty ; and another to engage him to his party , though the ends be different . my determination in this writing is as it was in the former exam. page . that the new covenant is not the old renewed , but that they differ specifically in the essentials , and not onely in rites , and that the covenant at mount sinai was a covenant of works : and this i prove , . from that text which here mr. c. mr m. the assembly and others stand so much upon , to wit , heb , , . & . the old covenant there meant , is the covenant made with israel at mount sinai , which appears in that it was the covenant which god made with the fathers of the iewes in the day that he took them by their hand to bring them out of the land of aegypt . now that covenant differs essentially more than in rites from the new covenant ; yea , as a covenant of works is diffrent from the covenant of evangelical grace , ● . because the new covenant is said to be established or setled as a law ●n better promises , heb : . . now if the promises be better promises , it is because they be of better things ▪ and if of better things then of different things , and so the difference is more than in rites , yea it is in essentials : for promises of different things essentially , make different covenants essentially . and that the difference is in the meliority of promises : and that these promises be of better things , is apparent from the recitall of the promises , heb : ● . , , . & . ●● . ● , where also by the offering of christ , that testament is said to be of force . by this also the covenant at mount sinai is proved not to be the covenant of gospel-grace : for then it had had as good promises , yea the same promises . . if it had been the covenant of grace , they had abode in it . for that is a covenant , which they that are in continue in . but in the old covenant , or that at mount sinai they abode not , v. . ergo , &c. . that is not the covenant of grace which is faulty , or ( which is the meaning of ●t ) occasioning god to complain , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we translate faultless , is that which is without complaint , and the meaning is , the first covenant occasioned complaint of the israelites , as it is v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , complaining of them ( he doth not say it , as mr. m. seems to have understood it , as if god had found fault with the covenant ; that 's a mistake , he should then have found fault with his own act ) he saith , therefore for remedy of such complaint and jarring , a second covenant was established , which should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , plaintless , and therefore the covenant of grace takes away occasion of complaint , or finding fault , because it provides for them to whom it was made , that they should not occasion god to complain by their breaking of it , as the first covenant had done , which was faulty , occasioning god to complain in that it was broken . mr. c. saith , it was faulty comparatively , not absolutely , and his meaning seems to be that the first covenant was faulty because of its imperfect manner of teaching the gospel . but he is therein mistaken : for , as i shewed from the words , the first covenant is said to be faulty , because of the complaint of god against the israelites , as not keeping ●t , as the holy ghost expounds the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , v. . by the expression v. . proving it not to have been faultless , that is , without complaint , because he complained of them , v. , to wit , that they abode not in it . v. . which if it had been the covenant of evangelical grace , they should certainly have done , because that provides for the keeping and perseverance in it , by writing the lawes in their hearts , and forgiving their sins . . the same is further proved from chap. . , &c. where . the covenant at mount sinai is set down as given with horror , to shew that it begat nothing but affrightments even in the best moses himself , whereas the covenant of grace begets joy and gladness before god. . it is said the hebrew christians were not come to , therefore it was not the covenant of grace . . that they were come to jesus the mediator of the new covenant , v. . in opposition to moses the mediator of the old . . from ch . , . where the blood of the new covenant is said to sanctifie . and ch . . . christ brings back the sheep by the blood of he everlasting covenant . this everlasting covenant is that which was confirmed by the blood of christ oppositly , or in contradistinction to that which was confirmed by the blood of calves and goats , heb. . . therefore that covenant was not everlasting , nor confirmed by christs blood , and consequen●y not the covenant of grace . the same is the express doctrine of paul , gal. . . where he saith , agar and sara are two covenants , and he saith , agar , or one covenant , was ▪ from mount sinai , and that this genders to bondage , and is in bondage with her children , v. . calls them that are under it such as are begotten according to the flesh , v. . to be cast out , v. . and opposeth it to sarah , that is , the promise , the jerusalem above who is free , mother of all believers , begetting children of the promise , born after the spirit , children of the free woman . now what is this but the covenant of grace , and the other of works . for the covenant of grace never genders to bondage , nor is in bondage with her children , who are not according to the flesh to be cast out , but free , the mother of believers , bringing forth children of the promise born after the spirit , children of the free woman . therefore the covenant at mount sinai , was not the same with the covenant of gospel-grace , but a covenant of works . . in the same epistle , chap. . . he saith , the law is not of faith , that is the covenant of the law doth not promise righteousness before god upon faith , but by works ▪ v. . therefore the covenant of the law was not the covenant of gospel-grace . . the same is expressed v. , , , , where the law is opposed to the promises , the inheritance is denied to be by it , or that it could give life , or righteousness by it , therefore it is not the covenant of grace , for life , righteousness and inheritance is by it . the like is gal : . . rom : . , , , , & , , . . from rom . . where the apostle expresly saith , that moses described the righteousness of the law that the man that doth them shall live in them , and this he makes opposite to the word of faith : whence it follows it was the covenant of works , which was the law : for what is the covenant of workes but that which promiseth life by doing the law ? nor doth it make against it to say , the apostle , v. . saith , christ was the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth : for in whatsoever sense that be meant , yet it is certain the denomination of a covenant of grace or of works , is not taken from the end of the covenanter , or the consequent on the covenant or command , but the promise and condition ; therefore what ever end god had in giving the law , or what event soever fell out upon it , yet the covenant of the law promising righteousness upon perfect obedience to the law , and not otherwise , it is to be termed a covenant of works , not of gospel-grace . . from rom. . . where the apostle saith , sin shall not have dominion ●ver you , for ye are not under the law , but under grace , which supposeth that they who are under the law , are not under grace ; which cannot be understood of the command of the law , for men may be and are under the command of it , and yet under grace : therefore by the law is meant the covenant of the law , and then they which are under the covenant of the law , are not under grace , which they should be , i● the covenant of the law were generally the same with the covenant of grace . . from rom : . . we are dead to the law by the body of christ , v. , we are delivered , or as i would read it , we are discharged ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) from the law , even the moral law , v. . not as a rule of obedience , but as a husband , or covenant , on which we depend for maintenance , help , supply , sentence , countenance , reward . but if the law were the covenant of grace , we should not be dead to it , or delivered from it : ergo. . from cor. , , the covenant of the law is called the letter which killeth , opposite to the new covenant in which the spirit which quickneth is ministred , and v . he expresly calls it the ministration of death graven in stones , the ministration of condemnation , v. , opposite to the ministration of righteousness , of which paul denies himself to be a minister , therefore it was not the covenant 〈◊〉 evangelical grace , but of works . yea mr cobbet himself , page . the covenant in horeb had the stipulation of . do so and live , not so in the covenant of grace that was imbondaging , shewed the way of worship , gave not grace to act it , was against us , &c. the assembly confess . of faith , c. . art. . ch . , art. ● , cite gal : . , rom. ▪ , gal. , , which speak of the covenant of the law to shew the covenant of workes made with adam , which shews they take them , to be the same , or heed not what they cite , chap. . art. . true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works , not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works . greater catech : page . the regenerate are delivered from the morall law as a covenant of works . yea mr m. his words denying the law to be part of the covenant made to abraham , but as a schoolmaster to whip them to christ , impossible to be kept ( which are not to be ●rid of the covenant of grace ) doth in effect make it the covenant of works . mr anthony burgess when he distinguisheth vindic . legis , lect . . pag. , saith the law considered more largly , as that whole doctrine delivered on mount sinai with the preface and promises adjoyned , and all things that may be reduced to it , was a covenant of grace , but more strictly , as it is an abstracted rule of righteousness holding forth life upon no terms but perfect obedience abstracted from moses his administration of it ; was not of grace but of works . in which words , he denies not that it held forth life upon no terms but perfect obedience , and so it was a covenant not of grace but of works . he shews not that it was given as a covenant upon any other terms , or that it did propound or promise righteousness before god upon condition of faith in christ : but only tels us , take the law for the whole doctrine &c. which is in effect all one as to say , the covenant god made was of works , yet withal he delivered many things , which shewed he would also have them look at christ , ( which we grant true ) but no where that he promised righteousness through christ in that covenant mr. blake vindic. faed c . pag. . the law is taken sometimes in that strict sense as containing a covenant of works and holding forth life upon condition of perfect obedience . so rom. . , . and . , . gal . . it were no hard matter to shew many of protestant writers who call the covenant of the law at mount sinai the covenant of works , but these suffice . what is objected to the contrary is not from the tenor of the cov●nant , but from some adjuncts of it . as because there were sacrafices & other rites appointed , it must be a covenant of grace . answer ▪ the sacrafices as they were commanded , so they did belong to the covenant of works . but as god used them as shadows and types of christ to come , so they signifie gods purpose o● gospel-grace in christ , but by another covenant , not that at mount sinai . gods end was not to give life by the law , but to direct to christ. answer i grant the first and thence it appears he intended it not for a covenant of grace . . it directed not to christ as it was propounded covenant-wise , but by accident in that it made known sin , and so made christ appear necessary , and this also proves that it was of it self as propounded a covenant of workes . god could not enter into a covenant of works with man fallen . answer : true , so as to justifie him by it , yet for other ends he may , as to discover sin , shew mans impotency . as christ said to the young man matth. ● . if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commandements though he knew he could not have life that way , and v . commands him to sel all , though it did but shew his covetousness , not make him perfect . the covenant of grace is to be judged such , from the tenor of the promise and condition , not from gods ends . for if so , then the gospel it self , being sent to some to harden them , should be a covenant of works , because the end was to to condemn them by it , that god begins the decalogue with i am the lord thy god &c. answ , he is said to be the god of the spirits of all flesh : numb . . . yet thereby is not proved all are in the covenant of grace . it may be understood , that he was their god de jure , that he had right to command them , because he brough them out of egypt . the plain answer is that he was their god according to the covenant of grace made with abraham antecedently to the giving of the law , not by the covenant of the law. and for that which is often objected that in the second commandement god promised mercy to thousands , but he promiseth no mercy but in a covenant of grace , i know how that can be proved , i concieve that god did and doth shew temporall mercies out of his long patience , by the covenant of the law , though no man be justified by it before god. neither psal. . . nor any other prove that the covenant at mount sinai was the same with that to abraham , though the promise of canaan was to a generations , yet on condition of obedience dan. . ierem. . , , , . when they brake gods laws they were expelled , and so when they slew the heir of the lord of the vic●ard he took his kingdome from them and gave it to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it , matth. . . i do not say that a naturall covenant ex natura rei , is a covenant of works , but it is undoubted , that the covenant on mount sinai was a covenant made with the whole nation of the jewes , and it is proved before to have been a covenant of works . it is untruly said , that the gospel●covenant , gal. . . was of a national nature . for that is a national covenant , which is made with a whole nation , that is all the people descended from such a st●●k , whereas v. . the apostle by saying , so then they that are of the faith of abraham are blessed with faithful abraham , plainly expounds who he means by all nations v. . to wit not whole nations , but believers of all nations . the covenant of works at mount sinai though it did not justifie before god ; yet it held that nation in canaan till they set up other gods and revolted from the true god , and upon their forsaking idols , they might plead it for the restoring of them to their own land , or continuance in it . yea god did condescend so far that if there had been in ierusalem a man that had executed judgment and sought truth he would have pardoned it , and not brought the chaldeans upon it to burn it ierem , . . it is true the gospel threatens and executes corporal punishments , and promiseth rewards to the disobeying or obeying of it , but not an expulsion out of or setling in any one country of an entire nation , but personal evils or rewards upon personal disobedience or obedience . the covenant of grace admits of no carnal hypocrites , nor is it so said gal . , , . though it 's not denied but many who are admitted into the visible church are such . to the eight objection , that was in the flesh , this in the heart , mr. c. speaks thus . answ. was that only in their flesh ? was not the word of covenant as well in their heart as moses judging ecclesiastically avoweth of israel deut. . , . &c with . , , , . so isai. . . gods covenant now is to write his law in our hearts heb. . but is not all that included in this , i will be your god ? whence all is inclosed up in that phrase ibid. or was not the first made to the iews after their return from captivity more expresly , ier. ● ▪ as before more implicitely gen. . reply . the objection i concieve ( though i do not well know whose it is ) is this , that the covenant at mount sinai with the iewish nation , or the covenant with abraham . gen. . were not the same with the covenant , for that was in the flesh in circumcision , or with the fleshly iew in that at mount sinai , this is the heart by writing gods law there and comprehends onely them in whose hearts gods laws are written . and indeed this difference the apostle makes between the covenant of the law and the go●pel , the one was of the letter , the other of the spirit cor. . . the promise of the spirit is said to be by faith gal. . . and in the new covenant this is made the promise different from what was in the first which was faulty for want of it heb. . . ● that god would write his laws in their hearts . now what mr. c. speaks seems to me no whit to infring this . for though it is true , the word of covenant was in their hearts , yet it is true , if meant of sanctifying implantation , only of the elect , not all abrahams natural seed , or the whole body of israel . how moses is said to judg ecclesiastically i understand not . deut. . , . &c. with . , , , . do not prove that moses avowed of every isralite that the word of covenant was in their heart . in some places doubtless the promise [ i will be your god ] includs also the writing of gods laws in our hearts , nor will i deny it included in the promise gen. . . but i do then not understand it of every israelite in that sense : for if so then i must make gods word fal , sith he doth not perform it to al. and for that which mr. c. seems to hold , that they had the promise dispensed unto them with execution of the covenant , it is in my apprehension to charg god with falshood . if any say i wrong mr. c. let him construe this passage otherwise if he can [ yea but god did not actually write such holy dispositions in them : suppose he did not : that is the execution of the covenant , as for the very ●erith or covenant itself , it is the promise whereof dispensed to them , and this they had both gen. . and deut. . . to circumcise the heart to love god is ▪ to imprint gracious dispositions ; to promise the same to them is a covenant to imprint it and so he did covenant with them and theirs ibid ] in which words he seems plainly to make god promise to imprint in some the gratious disposions he doth not actually imprint , which is to make god not keepe his word ; nor is the matter mended by asking , is not gods covenant now also sacramentally on our bodies too , and in many no further ? for i grant many are baptized , who are not regenerate , yet i do not believe gods covenant of grace is to any such , or as mr. c. speaks gods covenant to write his laws in their hearts is to any such . nor do i think that either ierem. · . or deut. . . god promiseth to all israelits to write holy dispositions in their hearts , but only to the elect ; nor to these in his covenant at mount sinai , though he made these promises to some of the natural seed of israel . neither rom. . from . to . nor gen. . , . compared with gen. . , . nor gen. . . , , . compared with gen. . , , , . and gal. . nor heb. ▪ , . . prove that either cain or ishmael or esau were ever in the covenant of evangelical grace , nor is there any text that proves that he new covenant is intailed to natural generations of the most godly men . mr. c. in answer to the tenth objection saith thus . but it 's false to say the commandement gave right to covenant interest ▪ since covenant right was first promised and declared to be the ground of that commanded service of the init●atory seal gen. , , , , . &c. thou shalt therefore keep my covenant . he doth not say you must be or are circumcised , and therefare i will be your god : but i will be a god to thee and thy seed , therefore thou and they shall be circumcised ; the nature of a seal supposeth a covenant to be sealed . to which i reply , i confess it were ridiculous for any to say the commandement gave right to covenant-interest , or covenant-right . for what is covenant-interest , but interest in the covenant , and covenant-right , but right from the covenant ? but setting aside mr c. his inept phrasifyings , ( which i count to be paedobaptists-gibberish ) it is not false , but manifest truth , that it is the command of god onely that gave title to persons to be circumcised , and is the rule to know who are to be circumcised and who not , as i have often proved and shewed to be in effect confessed by mr m. as for mr. c. his inference from [ thou therefore , gen , . . ] it is answered often before in the first part of this review , sect. . and elswhere , that neither is the reading certain [ thou therefore ] nor doth the inference arise meerly from the promise , v. . nor is the inference at all of a right to circumcision , but of a duty , nor is this duty urged from each circumcised persons interest in the covenant but gods making it with abraham . nor is it true , that the nature of a seal supposeth a covenant to be sealed , sith other things are to be sealed , as letters , books , stones , men , fountains , &c. besides covenants , abrahams circumcision , rom. . . was a seal not of a covenant of some things to be done , but of the righteousness of faith which he had yet being uncircumcised , & if it were true , yet is it as little to the purpose , sith there may be a covenant sealed to a person that hath no interest in the promise , as when ones name is used onely as a trustee for others . and for what is said , that the commandment required only a male of eight dayes old to be circumcised , ( which mr. c. seems to conceive false ) meaning not before the eighth day , is so plain by reading the chapter , that i should make question of his wit or his forehead that should deny it . and the reason thus exprest is as frivolous , the promise heing made indefinitely to the seed whether male or female , and not to the eighth day old seed , but to the seed albeit but a day old . for though the promise be to the child of one day old , yet the command is not to him , nor is he to be circumcised , and therefore the seal follows not the covenant , but the command even where the promise goes before . what he adds , else what had become of them if they had died then , in respect of the ordinary covenant means of their good , rom. . : methinks mr. c. might have as easily answered himself as he would do a papist pleading this very plea for the necessity of infants baptism to salvation , or about the case of famales , or still-born infants . surely he would say , god supplies that without means , which he bestowes on others by ordinary means , and so infants of a day old may speed well without circumcision . to what purpose rom. . . comes in here i know not : this and some other passages seem to be the inconsiderate speeches of a man dreaming . to the objection , with the jews , the church and state were the same , but not so now . mr. c. thus writes . answ. god never confounded church and civill state either then or now . who dare make god the author of confusion which is the god of order ? he then kept them severall , paling in the civill state with the judicials , with which the church as such dealt not , but as civil cases came under a church consideration . she had her ceremonials and morals to regulate her kings and princes , priests levits , and elders had their proper work , and word , onely in their own sphears . the elders of the assemblies knew and acted in their places ecclesiastically without interruption from civill officers , or intruding upon civil officers as such , as josh. . & . , , acts . luke . the matters of the king and of the lord were carefully bounded and sundred , chron. . . answ. according to the constitution of the jewish people by god , the church was not one body and the state another , but all the same persons were of the church , who were members of the common-wealth , he that had the right of a iew , had the right of a church-member , nor were any taken in or cast out of the one , but withall he was taken in or cast out of the other . nor hereby is god made the author of confusion , but good order was setled & kept in this way of coincidency of state civil and ecclesiastical . nor is it true that god kept the church and civill state severall , or paled in the civill state with judicials , by which it was divided from the church . in the church the priest dealt as well in judicials as in ceremonials , the priest and the levite as well as the iudge gave sentence in matters of blood and plea , as well as between stroak and stroak , deut. . , . eli , samuel , iehoiadah judged israel , managed state-affairs as wel as temple service . nor do i know any such iudicials , but that they did belong to the church or priests ( who were iudges ) as well as to the civill state , that is , the princes . as there were ceremonials and morals to regulate kings and princes , so there were also lawes to regulate the priests . but no where do we read of any court kept by the church , or officers of the church , that is , priests and levits , wherein to censure kings and princes for meer morall sins called now ( somewhat besides the scripture use of the word ) scandals ) though we find princes deposing priests . it is true , priests , levits and elders had their proper work and moved onely in their own sphears . and so had princes and souldiers , but not so as to make two distinct corporations in israel . if by elders of the assemblies which knew & acted ecclesiastically in their places , he mean any other than the priests , and by their ecelesiasticall knowing and acting , the taking cognizance of moral evils , and proceeding against them by ecclesiasticall censure in a court distinct from the civill , i must confess i find not either such assembly , or such proceedings in the texts brought by mr c. or any other . i grant there was a dististinction between the matters of the king and of the lord , chro. . . & that amaziah the chief priest was over the iudges whom iohoshaphat sent forth in all matters of the lord , and zebadiah the ruler of the house of iudah , for all the kings matters . but this doth not prove that these men did keep severall courts , but that in the same synedrium these persons were best fitted to direct , the one in one sort of matters , the other in the other ; as in a parliament , senate , or council of lords , bishops , lawyers , souldiers , though they sit and act together , yet one may be more specially for one business and another for the other . nor doth it appear that iehoshaphat assigned in the cities some iudges for one kind of causes , and others for others but because there was occasion to have recourse in many difficult cases to the synedrum at ierusalem , he instructs them whom they should have there for their help , according to the law , deut. , , , &c. but i leave the reader to mr seldens books de synedrijs etraeorum , to resolve him in this point . what mr c. gathereth out of the words of i. s. that he saith , that god made a covenant of grace in generall and so with the body of the jewes infants and all , serves not mr c , his turn , unless he meant his naturall seed in-generall , which that he did grant in respect of evangelicall grace , i do not believe ▪ what he saith touching baptism , that it sealeth the covenant indefinitely to all sorts , and that it sealeth an infants present , federall grace , and unto future grace : likewise unto grown ones it sealeth personall grace less principally , covenant-grace principally , is meer fancy without any scripture , which makes no such distinctions of federall grace and personall , of the sealing one grace principally , another less principally , of sealing an infants present federall grace , and unto future grace , of baptism , sealing the covenant indefinitly to all sorts , which the scripture makes the act of the person baptized only to testifie his own repentance and faith . i proceed to examine the ninth section of that chapter . sect. mr c. sets down this conclusion , that the covenant-interest , at least externall and ecclesiasticall of infants of inchurched believers is gospel as well as such covenant-interest of grown persons . sect . xliv . animadversions on the ninth section of the same chapter , in which the covenant-interest externall and ecclesiastical of infants of inchurched believers is pretended , not proved to be gospel , in which his allegations of deut. . , &c. gen. . . luke . deut. . , &c. ezek. . , &c. gen. . . . and other places are examined . answ : in my examen page . i said , they that say the covenant of grace belongs not onely to believers , but also to their naturall children , whether believing or not , these add to the gospel , and the apostle saith of such , gal. . , . let him be accursed . and page . it is no wrong to say it , that it is a new gospel to affirm that this is one of the promises of the covenant of grace , that god wil be the god of believers and of their seed ; that the seed of believers are taken into covenant with their parents , i cannot derive its pedigree higher than zuinglius . to this mr c. opposeth his seventh conclusion with ambiguity and seeming hesitancy . for what else can be the reason of those terms [ at least as well ] which are not like the expressions of a man that is well resolved what to hold ? but that we may rip up this conclusion , . he supposeth that right to outward ordinances , or more particularly to an initiall seal , is covenant-interest from the covenant of grace , which is a mistake , as i have often shewed . . that such externall covenant interest of grown persons is gospel without scripture , which mentions onely justification by faith and life by christ to be the gospel , not such a covenant interest ( as they call it ) which may be to reprobates as well as to elect persons . . he speaks to believers inchurched by such a covenant as the scripture mentions not . . he annexeth the covenant interest he speakes of to this church-covenant as well as to the covenant of grace without any warrant but his own conceit , nor shewes how far it is annexed to the one with or without the other , . he asserts the covenant interest at least externall and ecclesiasticall of infants of inchurched believers . . that this is gospel . the first place he brings for his conclusion is deut. , , , , , , compared with rom. . , , , and saith , the matter of the promise , scil : inward power of grace sheweth it was a gospel-promise like that heb. . , , . ans. this is enough to shew the impertinency of this text to prove the meer externall ecclesiasticall interest of infants of inchurched believers . for it contains that promise of inward grace , which mr. b. saith , belongs onely to the elect . friendly accom . pag. . saith he , now this was made to the seed or children of these church members , as ch . . , . here is not any evasion as is usuall in mentioning abrahams seed , &c. this people to whom this was made , being not so spiritual themselves . answ. i grant that the promise deut. . . of circumcising thine heart and the heart of thy seed , is meant of the seed of those then assembled , but not of all their seed , but onely such as were elect , nor at all times , but a speciall time , upon their return to god when they were in captivity , nor at all to their infant-seed but to their grown seed , as mr b. proves in the words and place above cited , friendly accom . page . and whereas mr. c. conceives the people to whom this promise was made , not so spiritual , he is mistaken . for if god promised to circumcise their heart , they must be spiritual . that it was not a bare tender , which i grant . . saith he , lest any doubt should arise how this should be ratified and made good , moses prophetically setteth out christ as dead and risen in wh●m this covenant was ratified , v. , . all ▪ which the apostle further explaineth , rom. . , , ▪ answ. i do not conceive that either moses , deut. . , , . useth the words there to shew how the promise , v. . . should be ratified , or that he prophetically setteth out christ as dead and risen , deut. . , , . or that the apostle , rom. . , , . so explains it . he that reads the chapter may perceive , that deut. . v , , , . are brought to this end , that moses might prevent the excuse which might be made for their disobedience by alleaging that gods lawes were at such a distance from them as that they could not come to them . and though it is true that the apostle appli●s those words to the word of faith , rom. . , , . yet it is manifest that it was not a prediction of christs resurrection , as there the words stand , . from deu. . . where the commandment mentioned v. . is said expresly to be [ gods commandment and statute which are written in this book of the law. ] . that it was that which was nigh to them that they might hear it and do it . v. which is meant of the law , not of the word of faith concerning christ dead and risen , which was not to be done by us , but to be believed . rightly saith beza , annot. ad rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 baddabar , quo vocabulo moses intelligit legem quam dominus voce sua promulgavit , audiente universo populo suo , ita ut nullam ignorantiam possit ●raetexere , eum ejus tabulas baberet , descriptas , tanquam adeo singuli ex re citare possent , & intus haberent quasi in cognitio●e & animo insculptam : sed quod moses dixit de lege , hoc totum paulus ad evangelium acommodat per allusionem . pisc : analys . alludit apostolus ad verba mosis , deut. . . diodati annot. on rom. . . [ speaketh on this wise ] s. paul makes use of this passage , though spoken in another sense . the like to which he doth in the same chapter : v. . alledging the words psalm . . . concerning the preaching the gospel in all the world , which is undeniably meant of the course of the heavens . nor is it of force to overthrow this exposition , to say , that the word deut. . . is said to be in their heart , for to be in their heart is there no more than to be understood by them though they were ●isobedient , and might be true of the law ●s wel as the gospel . no● is it any disparagement to the holy writings , to say that sometimes holy writers accommodate to their purpose words that have o●her meaning in the places where they stand . whence i infer that the words v. ● . [ he commandement which i command thee this day ] do not prove that thereby is meant the very gospel-covenant ratified in christ , but the commandment given in horeb deut. . . nor is there any shew of likelihood that the words deut. . , , , . should be meant of the promise v. . of circumcising the heart of their seed , for that was not to be done by them , but god. and though it be true that moses had that day propounded the commandments as a mutual covenant betwixt them and god , as wel as god and them the parents or rulers stipulating therein in behalf of themselves and chidren ( or rather in the behalfe of the whole nation in present being and unborn posterity ) and so in reference to them also a conditional covenant that day in the plains of moab , deut. . . , , , , , , , , and . , , , , , , , , . yet the covenant was on their part to keep the commandments of the law for their prosperity deut. . . not to believe in christ ( which few of them understood ) . and when it is said deut. . . that it was that god might establish them that day for a people to himself , and that he might be unto them a god , it is not meant that they should be all believers , and god to them a justifying and saving god in christ , mr. b's . words in his friendly accommodation , pag. . and for that which you urge [ ero deus tui & seminis ] i doubt you will not prove that it reacheth so far as you speak . it sufficeth that god will be to them a god of mercy and do for them all that is necessary to put them in statum salutis pro conditione parvulorum , and mr. c's own exposition , i will be a god to some in respect of external interest , shew that to be a god to some doth not necessarily infer they shall be regenerate and so the covenant of saving grace in christ be gathered thence . and therefore i deny that deut. . . , , , . compared wi●h rom. , , . do evidently or obscurely prove , that the covenant-interest ( external as he cals it ) of inchurched stipulating parents children is gospel , or that the apostles preached this doctrine , or that believers are to eye the covenant in such a latitude as to their children with them by faith , or that the essentials of the covenant of grace in the latitude of the extent thereof to covenant parents with their children held forth in the old testament was delivered and held forth as valid to the faith of the saints in the new and after christs incarnation . nor doth peter propound the word of true faith in such a latitude as with reference to their children , ( in mr. c's sence ) acts. . , . and though paul hold forth rom. . , . the abounding of christs grace ( to them that are christs ) in the gift of righteousness , yet that any such thing as external ecclesiastical covenant interest to the natural seed of believers is held forth rom. . , . is mr. c's , palpable dotage . and how acts. . , . rom. . , , , . cor. , . are mistaken is shewed in the first part of this review and in this third part . but mr. c. fa●ls to disputing thus , that which believers , as such , have , do , and ought to believe as a branch of the covenant of grace , that is gospel ; but this is of that in nature , ergo . the major needs no proof : the former text also clearing the same : the major de jure is evident : they ought to believe the whole covenant made with them , as is evident , faith must be as large as the object , the covenant is the word of faith . and so he proceedes in more words . whereunto i answer , i grant his major , but mr. c. seems not to heed his own syllogism . for he tels us the minor de jure is evident , they ought to believe and by which words he seems to have concieved , that this was the minor , that they ought to believe the wh●le covenant : whereas his minor to be proved was this [ the external , ecclesiastical interest of infants of inchurched believers is that which believers , as such , have , do and ought to believe as a branch of the covenant of grace ] . but mr. c. as a man weary of disputing fals to his dictating way again after his confused manner leaving his reader to aim at what he would prove , and how . that which he should prove is , that the external ecclesiastical interest of infants of inchurched believers is that which believers , as such , have , do and ought to believe as a branch of the covenant of grace : surely if they ought to believe it he should produce some promise or declaration that avowes it as a constant and certain thing . but instead thereof he fals to gen. . . and tels us , god in making a covenant in a church reference especially , as was that with abraham gen. . he taketh in their seed or children as joint covenanters but what he means by gods making a covenant in a church reference , or in which words he takes believers seed as joint covenanters with their parents , or in which words the external ecclesiastical interest of every believers natural child may be proved , he shews not , nor can shew , there being no mans seed : but abrahams there mentioned . he goes on thus ; hence the phrase of seed in their generations taking in parents generating and children begotten as those in and by whom churches , are like to be continued . answ. it is true it is said gen. . . to abraham [ thou shalt keep my covenant ; therefore thou and thy seed after thee in their generations ] and this covenant is v. . every man-child among you shal be circumcised . but that this phrase [ seed after abraham in their generations ] should infer that god taketh in believeng parents generating and children begotten even of the gentiles in the covenant of grace at least in respect of external ecclesiastical interest is yet to me a riddle , i know no more to be inferred thence but this , that not only abraham , but also the israelites his posterity were bound to circumcise their males in their generations . but we have more of this stuffe . whence ( saith he ) god , when to speak in reference to the church-seed as well as to the choise elect-seed of isaac's line in which the visible , and not meerly the invisible church was to be continued , he saith , he will establish his covenant with isaac , not with ishmael , ishmael was abrahams seed too , and therefore externally in the covenant , and therefore sealed ; but god knowing that ishmael would reject this , he warneth abraham of it a little before that it might not trouble him afterwards : it is not to be with him in his generations for that cause gen. . ▪ compared with gen. . , , , , . but with isaac in his generations ; god not opposing therein isaac to his church-seed , who by rejecting the covenant will and did love , he and his to be cast out . answ. mr. c. in this passage speaks so obscurely that it is hard to say what he drives at , and i may take up the saying , reed me a riddle what 's this ? he makes a difference between gods speech of ishmael and isaac , that god saith he will establish his covenant with isaac not wi●h ishmael , it was not to be with him in his generations , who was to be cast out : all which i grant true , and thence infer , that god never made his covenant with , to , or for ishmael , and yet he was to be circumcised , and therefore the initial seal ( as it is called ) was given to him to whom the covenant belonged not . but mr. c. using this blind index [ whence ] leaves us to ghess , what he drives at . [ whence ] importes it is from somewhat before that god said this of ishmael , but that before was that god takes in parents generating and children begotten . but me thinks it is from the contrary ( as the apostle conceived rom. . , , , . ) that god speaks this of ishmael , who was abrahams seed , and yet not taken into the covenant , who yet should be taken in , if yet mr. c's . principles were good , that the covenant was made to abraham and his seed in their generations . and how mr. c. reckons ishmaels as not abrahams church-seed i know not , nor do i understand how ishmaels posterity should be cut off from external right to the covenant he being a church member according to mr. c's dictates . mr. c. then tels us , that god saith in reference to our times he will be a god to the families throughout the earth , and pag. . he cites for this purpose the prophecy ierem. . . but there it is , the families of israel : but were it , the families throughout the earth , this proves not that it is gospel , that infants of inchurched believers have external ecclesiastical covenant-interest . if it did , it may as well infer infants of inchurched believers , yea servants ( who are part of the families of the earth ) to have the same interest , yea all in the world , if we must understand it without limitation , and if with limitation then it is most rightly expounded as the apostle doth gal. . . the promise of blessing all nations , of believers v. . and so all the families of the earth ; to whom god will be god shall be only believers of all the families of the earth gentile believers as mr. c. truly saith , without infants . as ●or what mr. c. observes , that god said to abrahaham to be a god to him and his seed in their generations not in their regeneration , it is frivolous . for none of the gentiles seed are abrahams seed but by regeneration , and so to be abrahams seed in their generations applied to abrahams spiritual or church-seed among the gentiles is all one as to be abrahams seed by regeneration . and for the prophecy of being a god to all the families of the earth , it is meant not of every member of the family , but the meaning is that god would not restrain his gospel and church to the jews , but take in any of the families of the earth , who would embrace it , as when it is said mark. . . preach the gospel to every creature , ( that is ) to any gentile as wel as jews , yet infants not meant . this is proved from the event because parents did believe when children did hate them for it mat. . , . and the husband was often a believ●r the wife an infidel . but saith mr c. it was usually otherwise , and god speaks of things as they usually prove : extraordinary occurrences cross not such a rule . to which i say , if the prophecy were as mr. c. would , that it should be gospel that god will be a god of children with parents , because he will be god of all the families of the earth , than it must be true of the children of all and every of the families of the earth which recieve the gospel . nor are prophecies to be expounded at , if they foretold onely contingents what may be , and what may not be , but what shall certainly be ▪ nor can ther be a rule , much less gospel , made of that which is uncertain , somtimes it is somtimes it is not , a rule being , as they say in logick , a determinate & known thing ▪ nor is it true that the occurrent of the families being divided in religion was extraordinary . for our lord christ speaks of it rather as ordinary & commonly to be expected matth. . , . but mr. c. would have i● a rule from acts. . . acts. . luke . . to this may be answered that three instances mak not up an induction of particulars whence a rule may be made . . the first instance is not meant of infants , for none are th●re said to be saved but those that heard the words which peter spake . the next includes not infants . for the very next v . shews that by the house were meant those to whom the word of the lord was spoken . nor is there any intimation of an infant meant luke . . and it is certain that none of the texts speaks of that which they are produced for , a bare external interest : for they expresly speak of salvation , and therefore if they prove it to be a rule that parents and children are joint covenanters , or are taken in together they will prove they are saved together , which mr. c. i suppose will not assert . but some other answers are in my examen which i must vindicate with these . i had said examen part . there is a necessity to make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a restrinctive particle and to expound this house luke . . of zach●us his family only in reference to his person . against this mr. c. speaks thus . nor by salvation come to his house , is meant the comming of salvation to himselfe : as if he and his house were all one : nor do i know any parallel scripture speaking in such language , that when the scope and intent is to mention the comming of such or such a mercy to such a person , that phrase is used to denote the same ; that such or such a mercy is come to his house . what need such a circumlocution ? if so intended , the word might more plainly have been set down , this day is salvation come to this publican , this person , this man or the like , in as much as he also is become a son of abraham . and what though the greek word be used in acts . . and . . for secundum according as , yet not for quatenus , or in quantum : forasmuch as the text and sense thereof are cleare , that it noteth proportion of such administration , not meerly the cause or reason thereof . or if it be supposed to imply the cause or reason thereof its evident it noteth the proportion also . they gave to every one as , or according as they needed scil : proportionably to their need : it being regular as to give to the needy , so to give them according to the measure of their present necessity . but how that sense will here be fitly applicable i see not , to say that salvation is come to his house or to him according as he is a believer , but rather as our translators render it , it 's to be taken as a reason of the former , salvation is come to this house , forasmuch as he is a son of abraham . answ. by restraining the salvation come to zacheus his house to his person , i do not make zacheus and his house all one ; but salvation is come to his house that is , to this place , inasmuch , or in that zacheus is also become a son of abraham . but whereas mr. c. thinks no scripture using such language , i will use grotius his words shewing the contrary even in luke , because they are full to answer this passage of mr. c. annot. in luc. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , synecdoche . domus enim pro patre familias dicitur : ita supra . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . domum autem ideo nominâsse videtur christus , ut ostendat rel●tam hospitii gratiam . dixerat enim zachaeo christus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . quare quae ad hunc locum afferri solent de beneficiis dei in familiam pii patris familias , quanquam vera sunt rectè accepta , tamen huc pertinere non arbitror . as for what he saith that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie quatenùs , he may know that scapula puts quatenùs for the first signification of it . what i said , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was not only a causal particle , but also a restrictive is not denied by mr. c. but he thinks it is not good sense to say , according as he is a believer , but rather it is to be taken as a reason of the former . i confess it would not be good sense to say [ according , that is after the proportion that he is a believer ] but thus it is good sense to make it to note the reason with restriction , and so our translators do when they render it [ for so much . ] and this is confirmed in that , if it be expounded that salvation did come to his house , that is his wife , children , servants for this only reason , or cause , because he was a son of abraham , in that he was a believer , it may be gathered thence that a mans whole house , or posterity , may be saved barely by his believing : to this mr. c. saith , no : but as acts . . upon his believing they shall come in the gospel-way , in the covenant road , and ordinary means of salvation . but that this is a false exposition both places shew . that luke . . must needs be meant otherwise than of the means of salvation with which zach●us might not have been saved . for besides that to his being a son of abraham ( not a son of abrahams covenant as mr. c. speaks ( though that be true also ) but a follower of abrahams faith ) salvation is certainly annexed ; nor had it been so joyous if he had not meant salvation it self : it is put out of all doubt that he means salvation it self by verse . where he gives this reason why he said salvation was come to him , though some murmured at his going in to him ; for ( saith he ) the son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost ; therefore he had both sought , and did save zachaeus who was lost . and for the other place it is as frivolous to expound acts . . of the means of salvation . for , . pauls answer is of that of which the jaylour asked him , else he had deluded him by his answer ; but the question was not , what may i do to be put in the road , ordinary means of salvation , the gospel way ? but , what may i do to escape the wrath due to me ? . that salvation is meant which was consequent on his believing , but the ordinary means of salvation was not consequent , but antecedent , that which followed on his believing in christ was the certainty of salvation . yea to interpret thus , believe in the lord jesus , and thou shalt be saved , that is thou shalt hear the word , be baptized , &c. is so frigid and sapless and interpretation as no considerate man , sure no interpreter besides mr. c. that i know , did ever give a sense of it . but mr. c. tells me : nor is this sense of salvation for covenant means of salvation , or the covenant and promise it self unusuall in scripture . the salvation which christ and his apostles preached , and those heb. . . neglected , was not barely salvation it self , but the promises holding the same forth , this was that mercy , and riches , and salvation also which came to the gentiles , as rejected by the jewes , rom. . , , , , verses compared . so esay , , , , gods salvation is his promise or covenant on which their salvation did depend , calvin in locum . sam. . . david speaking of his house or posterity , which albeit it were not so orient then , yet god had made a covenant with him , scil . in reference to his house , ordered in all things and sure ; and this , scil . this covenant with me and my house , is all my salvation and all my desire , albeit he maketh my house not to grow or flourish in such a sort : this covenant then was his salvation objectivè , causaliter , or instrumentaliter . answ. if this sense of salvation for covenant means of salvation , or the covenant and promise it self were usuall in scripture , yet it could not be the sense , luke . . or acts . . whether we understand it of the outward means of salvation , the word and sacraments , or of the promise of salvation : but must be understood of saving by justification , as tit. . , , . for neither is the outward means of salvation , nor the promise of salvation consequent upon being a son of abraham , and believing as salvation is in those places . . yet in none of the places alleged by mr c. is salvation put for being in the gospel way the ordinary means of salvation competent to infants . and for the covenant or promise of salvation it self , he dares not avoch it to be gospel , that all the infants of inchurched believers have interest in it , and therefore if salvation luke . . were put for the covenant or promise of salvation , yet it would not prove that it belongs to every son of abrahams whole house , but mr c. must limit it to the elect , as i do . yet let us consider his texts , that it may appear with how little heed he brings texts , as if he never examined their pertinency , but heaped them together whether to the purpose or not . they are said to neglect salvation , heb. . . ergo , salvation is taken for the outward means of salvation competent to infants or the covenant of salvation . nay rather salvation is taken for salvation as it was preached and offered , not for the means of salvation competent to infants , nor for the promise of salvation , but for salvation it self neglected in that they did not take hold of it by believing and obeying the doctrine of the gospel . acts . , salvation is said to be sent to the gentiles , and that they would not hear it . but salvation there is the doctrine of salvation , not competent to infants who could not hear it . rom. . , , , , , is not meant either of the bare outward means of salvation , or the covenant of salvation only , much less the outward means competent to infants , es●y . , , the term salvation is not taken for the bare outward means of salvation competent to infants of inchurched believers . if salvation sam. . , did note outward means of salvation , because it is said , this covenant is all my salvation , desire should note outward means of desire , because it is said , this covenant is all my desire . i grant the convenant is termed his salvation causaliter , or instrumentaliter , and his desire objestivè . the covenant everlasting in all things ordered and sure , was made with david in reference to his house , not in respect of outward covenant interest to the infants of his house ( it 's a wonder to me that such a man as mr c. should ●o dote , especially after the publishing of mr cottons book of the covenant on that text ) but in respect of the great promise of raising christ out of his loins , acts . . or as it is luke . . raising up a horn of salvation for his people in the house of his servant david , and this ( that is the accomplishment of this promise ) was all his salvation and all his desire , although he did not make his house to grow in secular greatness . i deny not but parents faith may be an occasionall means to stave off destruction from , and to further the salvation of their children , as heb. . . , , , , jonah , & . but this i deny , that barely in this respect , in that the parent is such , the infant of an inchurched believer , whether professing or reall , is a visible member of the christian gentile church , and capable thereby of baptism , or that this is any part of the gospel . but mr c. tells us , shall it then be yielded that such benefit should come as was before spoken of to adult servants of the house , &c. and is here no reference to the poore babes by reason of their tender age ? hath the mercfull god revealed no ordinary help for them ? answer . it is yeilded that benefit came to the servant of the jaylors house , acts . . but not the benefit there mentioned barely by the jaylors faith without their own . though we conceive infants not meant acts . . because the texts , v. , , lead us to understand by [ the house ] the persons who heard the word , believed and rejoyced , yet we exclude not infants from salvation , nor do we deny to the elect the ordinary help of the spirit regenerating them , and christs mediation for them ▪ if they die in infancy , although they have not the ordinary outward means of the word and sacraments . and therefore he might have spared his pathetick interrogation sitter for an orator than a disputant , and for a papist than a protestant . nor need we exclude them from salvation for want of actuall faith because of the words mark . ▪ heb. . . for either those places may be understood of the act of faith in those to whom the word is preached , or else if it be understood of all infants , they may have faith in seed and act by immediate operation of the spirit , and yet they not to be baptized , because it is undiscerned by the minister of baptism . the jaylor might have encouragement to hope for his infants salvation , though they were not meant in those words , acts . . if the election of god be not any thing visibly to comfort him concerning his children , no more is the covenant of salvation , which is comensurtae with election , rom . . nor is discernable any more than election , both are alike discerned by the fruits of repenting and believing . as for baptism , it could not assure salvation , nor the want of it deba● from it . if it be not said , that the jaylors house believed before they were baptized , yet it is said in the next verse , and in the verse before , that paul spake the word to all that were in his house . as for that he saith , it follows not that what is applicable to the adult persons in the house , scil . that joy of faith must exclude children from baptism whereof they were capable , no more than when it is said , deut. . . that they and their housholds were to eat before the lord , and to rejoyce in all they put their hands to , &c. because therefore their little children could not so actually express joy in what they put their hands unto , therefore they were none of the houshould which did eat before the lord ▪ anabaptists would not like this arguing , which urge the joynt communion of the jewish children in all sorts of church-ordinances . i answer , ●f by little children be meant infants of a day or two , or some months old ( at which age they baptize infants ) i affirm that they are not mean● by the housholds , deut. . . and that for the reason given , because they could not 〈◊〉 before the lord , and rejoyce in all that they put their hands unto . nor do i know any whom he calls anabaptists , but would like of this arguing : the jewish housholds were to eat before the lord , and rejoyce in all that they put their hand to ; therefore little children of a day or two , or some months old , are not any part of the housholds to whom that precept is given , or of whom that which is there said , 〈◊〉 there meant . for though we all grant that ●nfants were circumcised , and in my examnen , page . i say the males that could eat , though not come to years of discretion fit to receive the lords supper , were to eat the passover , yet i know none of the so called anabaptists which urge the joynt communion of the iewish children ( infants of a few dayes or months old ) in all sorts of church-ordinances . what mr c. saith further , suppose a mans houshold , men , women and children , all diseased and cured at the bath , and afterwards the houshold expresseth their joy for it by leaping & dancing for joy ; and it be said such a man , he and all his were washed at such a bath , and he & his whole houshold afterwards even danced for joy : none will say , that because little ones could not so leap for joy , and are excluded from the notion of the [ whole houshold ] in this later , therefore they were not in the account of [ all his ] in the former , if it were granted him , yet the arguing from acts . where it is said , that p●ul spake the word of the lord to all that were of the jaylors house : and v. , he rejoyced believing in god with all his house , with the constant narration of the evangelist in the acts of the apostles , mentioning baptizing of none but believers , do evidently shew , that by [ all his , v. ] were meant onely those that heard the word and believed . it is true more or fewer of this or that sort of persons or things born or unborn are meant by the terms [ house or houshold ] as the matters and circumstances of the speech lead to , nor need i say that gen . . under the term house are not meant little children , because of the words gen. . , , , . nor need i deny that infants are often intended by the term house and houshold , an gen. , , &c. or that they are chiefly meant thereby , as sam. . , &c. or that they are intended when some parts of the family are expresly instanced in , and children not withall mentioned , as gen. . . or that children are ordinary instruments to build or hold up a house in naturall , civill , religious and church-respects too , as exod. ▪ . or that the covenant-expressions of seed and seed in their generations , do more directly reach them as such , than either wives or servants , as such , as gen. . , &c. yet all this doth neither take away the force of the reasons before given why under [ all his , acts . . ] infants are not meant , much less prove that which mr c. should prove ( which he must do if he will prove his covenant-interest ecclesiastical of believers seed thence ) that in the iaylors house were infants , and they baptized . ezek. . , , , , , , , . hath been often shewed to be impertinently alledged being meant of the israelites when brought out of egypt and then god said [ live ] to them when they had been ready to perish in canaan first , and then in egypt by oppression and after brought them to mount sinai and entered into the covenant of the law , which mr. c. ●ndeavoring to apply to an ecclesiastical external priviledge of gentile believers infants in the time of the gospel doth toto coelo errare . it is neither said there to jerusal●m then live , nor micah . . . that the same mercy and truth engaged to abraham and jacob god did both swear to other jew fathers of families , or that there is mention of pardon of sins externally made over to them or pleaded there for that end v. , and though i deny not that in respect of the covenant made with iacob at bethel gen. . , , , , , , . god is said there to speake with israel in hoseah his dayes hos. . . yet i deny there is a word that saith that external church interest of inchurched gentile believers infants is gospel . nor is there any thing sam. . , ▪ about external covenant-church-interest , but of the peculiar promise made to david of the continuing the kingdome to his posterity , which having its full accomplishment in christ acts. . . was indeed in that respect the covenant of grace , and was so believed both by david and all believers before christ , that it should be done , and now by all believers that it is done . but this promise was made of davids house only not of every particular believers , and therefore it is impertinently brought to prove that it is gospel that to every believers house god hath made such a covenant , or that the children of every believer have an external covenant interest with the parent . as for the instances of eve and lamech concerning seth and noah gen. . . and . . ther 's no mention of any covenant , nor that these were covenant babes , much less of a covenant belonging to all believing parents with their children , but an acknowledgment in the former that god had appointed eve another seed insteed of abel whom cain slew in respect of the preisthood say some , others in respect of propogating mankind , others because of christ to come from him : in the other a prophesy of noah that he should comfort them concerning their worke and toil of their hands , because of the ground which the lord had cursed , which is concieved by some as meant of the invention of plowing ▪ vide christoph. cartwright in locum : the new annot. follow that sense . but were it true eve had respect in that speech gen. . . to the promise gen. . . and that she believed god would continue the church in seth's posterity , and that thence came the distinctions of the sons of god and daughters of men gen. . , . and lamech believed that noah should be a root , as it were to the church albeit that corrupt world should be destroyed : yet all this is note●ing to the point mr. c. should prove , that it is gospel that the children of every inchurched gentile-believer have an externall covenant church-interest , there being in those texts not a word of such an externall covenant church-interest , nor of any generall promise to them , but onely a mention of speeches which had their rise from particular revelations about those persons which are there mentioned , psalm . . , , , there 's not a word of the externall federall church state of inchurched gentile church-believers . but if the psalm were made towards the later end of the captivity of babylon , and were the prayer of the iews ▪ as v. , , makes it probable , then it seems to be meant , as the new annotations on psa. . , thus ▪ the children of thy servants shal continue ] this is the literal ( as i may call it ) immortality proposed in the law to them that fear of god , their surviving in their posterity : if of the saints prophecying of the calling of the gentiles , or , as some would , of the reingraffing of the iewes , that paraphrase of junius may be right : ● . vera & germana ecclesiae tuae membra conservabuntur in aeternum virtute tua & tibi curae futura sunt . take i● of whomsoever the words may be verified , it mentions no such thing as externall federall church-interest , but continuance and establishment before god , that is , as ainsworth notes , as much as so long as god doth dure , meaning for ever . for assurance whereof they had a word of faith , to wit , some revelation of god , though no such covenant as mr c. imagines , int●tuling children of inchurched gentile-believers to externall church-interest . mr c. urgeth a second argument to prove the federall interest of believers infants to be gospel because from the beginning , and he begins with gen. . . to prove that it was held as gospel , that the species of the infants of believers in church-estate were taken into the verge of the covenant of grace ; as if infants of believers were a species , and not individuals , or that it were denied that some infants were taken into the verge of the covenant of grace . and then he dictates without proof , that adam and eve were eyed by god as a seminall visible church ; whereas in that promise they were eyed either as the root of mankind ; or if as a church , more likely as the seminall invisible , than as the visible church . he interprets the seed of the woman , not onely of the principall seed christ , in , and by whom it was ratified and fulfilled , but her church-seed also whom the same promise did comprehend . but i would know of mr c. whether cain were not her church-seed , who by mr c. his dictates was the infant of inchurched believers . for adam and eve were eyed , saith mr c. as a seminall visible church ? if so , then it is true of cain , that he should bruize the serpens head as eves church-seed : which how he did , unless being of the wicked one , and slaying his brother , as is said of him , john . . be bruising the serpents head , i understand not . many interpreters comprehend cain under the serpents seed ; but none i have met with , comprehend him , or any reprobate , under the womans seed mystically understood . there are interpreters that understand the promise , gen. . . as made to mankind in respect of the naturall serpent , and the best of christs destroying the works of the divel , as john speaks , epist. . . and others of the elect overcoming satan , and treading him under their feet , rom. . . but none do i find who understand it of infants of believers externall covenant church-interest . believers , it is true , are called abrahams seed , but no where true believers , as such , are called eves church-seed , nor doth eve by faith from thence thus interpret the scope of the promise , gen. . , . and if infants be meant by the womans seed , gen. . . in a spirituall sense of overcoming the divel , yet no infants but elect can be meant thereby , sith no other overcome the divell . so that it is so far from being true , that this gospel of infants of believers externall covenant church-interest , was held in the beginning of the world , gen. . . that i rather conceive that it is no elder than mr c. and am sure is a meer figment . but there is more of this rubbish to be removed . he tells us , the same doctrine is implicitly held forth , gen. in the opposition of the servile condition of canaan , v. , . to the future church state of japhet , v. . the one accursed parent and child to servitude , so that chams babes as soon as born , were to be slaves : but japhet parent & child , are prophetically voted to church-estate in sems tents , so that inchurched japhets babes are actually within sems tents so soon as born . as god would accurse collective canaan , noah prophesieth that god would enlarge , or cause collective japhet to turn into the tents of sem ; which interpreters expound of the joyning of the gentiles unto the visible church . now visible church-estate supposeth visible covenant-estate , as is evident . answ. if mr. c. may be allowed to make gospel of doctrine so implicitely held forth as his new gospel is here ; i see not why we should so much blame , as we do , popes for making new articles of faith out of places clearer for their purpose , than this is for mr. c's . the servil condition of canaan is refered generally by interpreters to the bondage they were in when joshua subdued them , and the gibeonites were made slaves : which though it did extend to their children , yet was not such , but that even they were proselytes many of them to israel , as araunah the jebusite , and after the woman of canaan is commended for her fa●●h , matth. . . and therefore not excluded from the visible church . and for the blessing of japhet , whether we read it , god shall enlarge japhet , as some , or perswade japhet , as others , i see not how it is well cleared , that the accomplishment of it is in the calling of the gentiles descended from ja●het , as the greeks , and others into the visible church , because it is said that canaan should be servant to japhet , whereas the tyrians , and sidonians , and carthaginians , and others descended of canaan were in the visible church as well , if not as soon , as many of the posterity of japhet , as is apparent by the histories of the church mentioning bishops and synods held among them , and famous writers . and therefore for my part i encline to think it a prophecy of the civil condition rather than ecclesiastical , whether it were fulfilled in alexander the great , and the greek kings of asia after him subduing tyre and sidon , and possessing palaestina , of which judaea was a part , or of the romans subduing carthage and poss●ssi●g judaea : but ●e it taken as a prophecy of the ecclesiastick state of these people , with what argument will mr. c. prove , that the dwelling in the tents of sem , is refered rather to the visible , than the invisible church ? they who will have it accomplished when the gentiles were fellow-heirs of the same body , and partakers of gods promise in christ by the gospel , ephes. ▪ . or when the gentiles were grafted in the stead of the jewes rom. . . have more reason to understand it only of true believers converted by the gospel , and so of the invisible church , than to understand it of the visible church as visible , as i have shewed in the first part of this review : yet were it meant of the visible church , there is no argument to prove it meant of the babes of japhet as soon as they are born . for what though it be that canaan , and sem , and japhet ●e all collectively taken , yet mr. c. himself , pag. . hath taught us , that speeches of the whole body of the jewes , collectively taken , are true , in respect of the choice or refuse part ; and so may , or rather must be the speeches here necessarily understood , canaan collective neither comprehending every canaanite in their greatest servitude , nor collective sem , or japhet , comprehending every israelite or descendent from japhet , but a notable part . and if those of japhet that dwelt in the tents of sem , that is according to the exposition of mr. c. were of the visible church , were brought in by perswasion , and this perswasion was by the preaching of the gospel according to the opinion of many interpreters , the argument is forcible to the contrary , that babes are not here meant among the inhabitants in the tents of sem ecclesiastically expounded , but only such as could hear and understand , and were perswaded by the gospel to joyn themselves to the visible church of christ. after this mr. c. dictates out of gal. . , . gen. . . that even as ishmael and hi● were cast out of abrahams family , and the legal jerusalem and her children even the body of the jewes adult and infant were dis-churched , so ecclesiastical isaac , abrahams church-seed with their children should be instated in the visible politi●al gospel-church . but the apostle doth not speak of ●asting out of the visible church as such , but out of the inheritance of sons , that is justification and salvation , and jerusalem that now is and her children is not j●ws as jewes or the body of iewes or adult and infants as mr. c. speaks : for then many myriads of jewes believing should be cast out : but ierusalem that now is , notes the legal covenant , and her children not infants born at the city ierusalem , bu● so many whether of jews or gentiles , as sought righteousness by the law , and not by christ , as hagar signifies the legal covenant , & her son ishmael such as were born of the flesh , that is , trusted in the flesh , as the apostle speaks , phil . . that is , in their legal righteousness , and carnal privileges . and on the other side , sarah and ierusalem above , signifie the gospel-covenant , vers . , . which begets children by promise , that is , ●●cording to the doctrine of fai●h in christ typified by isaac , and these that believe are born after the spirit , and do inherit life , righteousness , salvation . there 's not a word of abrahams church-seed there , or any where else in mr. c. his sense ; and [ ecclesiastick isaac ] is a new notion , and a meer figment of mr. c. in his sense ; and [ the casting out ] is meant of the invisible church of the saved , such as do rej●ct christ , and adhere to the law ; and the taking in is meant of the taking into the invisible church of the justified and saved , them that believe in christ , or a●e united to him , and not of an in-churching of meer visible professors , paren●s , and children into the visible church by an outward ri●e . the three texts next alleged by mr. c. are all mis●alleged to prove an external covenant church interest of the infants of in-churched-believers , to wit , esay . . the impertinency of which to this end , is shewed in the second part of this review sect. . the impertinency of isa. . and ezek . . in this part of the review before mr. c. proceeds to a third argument . in answer to which i deny , . the major , or sequele , that [ if infants and little ones of visibly believing parents in their church estate , before they can make any personall confession or profession of faith in the covenant , yet then are abrahams church-seed , then is it gospel that the promises belong to them . ] nor is it in substance or circumstance the apostles , gal. . . to abraham and his seed are the promises made . for though it is granted , that it is gospel that to abraham and his seed the promises are made , yet it is utterly false that the●e is meant a seed of abraham , who are neither elect nor true believers , but onely the naturall children of gentile inchurched believers , yea of gentile visible inchurched professors of faith , whom mr c. in a new language of his own without scripture , calls abrahams church-seed ; yea , the text is so manifestly against it , that i wonder mr c. could imagine any reader would receive his dictates about this text. for the apostle expresly limits the promises to christ as the seed of abraham , and whether christ be understood personally or mystically , as beza and others , yet by the seed are not meant the fictitious church-seed of abraham , to wit , the naturall children even of infants o● visible inchurched gentile-believers , or visible professors of faith ▪ but true believers , or elect persons , who alone are members of christ mysticall . and the promises are of the spirit through faith , v. . the inheritance , v. . life and righteousness , v. , , which are made to none but true believers , or elect persons . to which i add that externall covenant-interest ( if there were such ) is never in scripture termed the gospel , no not in those who rightly have it , as true believers , but christs dying for our sins , and justification by faith in him . . i also deny the minor [ that the infants and little ones of visibly believing parents in church-estate before they can make any personal confession or profession of faith in the covenant , yet then are abrahams church-seed ] mr. c. takes upon him to prove the minor ; . in those of abrahams loins in the elect seed . i should think ( saith he ) it should not be questioned , but yet it hath by some ; that infants while infants and till believers are not in the covenant &c. and by such other speeches of our adversaries in this point , the covenant-right not only of the individual infants of believers , but the covenant estates of that species and sort of persons is wholly denyed , and so since it 's evident and acknowledged that some are elected of that sort , yet it 's denied that they have part in the word of gods covenants , so that if they die in infancy , as many of the choise seed of abraham and isaac and jacob did &c. yet that ordinary means of saving efficacy in all the saved elect is denied , contrary to that principle rom ▪ . . but more hereof anon : but rom. , , , , . is so clear for it i wonder any deny it . isaac and jacob are made precedential instances of interest not only of election , but of gods calling unto the fellowship of his free covenant without respect either to their desire or indeavour of it personally v. . answ. there are sundry reasons which make me conceive that in this and many other passages in this argument mr. c. aimed at my self . mr. robert baillee minister of glasgow in scotland had in the . part of his diswasive intituled anabaptism ch . . pag. . charged me with spoiling all infants of all interest in the covenant of grace , and denying all right to the new covenant to iewish infants till in their ripe years they became actuall believers . from which false criminations i have vindicated my self in the addition to my apology printed at london . mr. c. here tels of some who speak as if they held that infants while infants , and till believers are not in the covenant , that wholly deny the covenant estate of that sort of persons , though they acknowledg some of them are elected of that sort , yet it 's denied they have part in the word of gods covenant , and if they die in infancy that ordinary means of saving efficacy in all the saved elect is denied them . i have reason to conceive that these are calumnies of others , sure i am if theyrae meant of my self they are calumnies , and so shewed in my books before cited and in other of my writings . from which that i may stand free i further express my self distinctly thus . . that by [ in the covenant of grace ] i mean the promise of righteousness and external life by christ jesus . . that i mean by [ being in the covenant of grace or belonging to it ] the having this promise made to them by god whether gen. . . or gen. . . according to the speech of the apostle tit. . . that god promiseth eternal life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before the times of the ages , that is afore any age of man was past ▪ . that all the elect of god whether children of believers or unbelievers dying in infancy , or at the riper age are in this covenant of grace , that is , god hath promised eternal life to them by christ , they are given to christ to save , are children of the promise rom. . . . that all these are abrahams seed meant in the promise gen. . . though not actual believers . . that all these have christs me●●●s and the spirits inbeing in them afore they dye as ordinary means of salvation . . that none but these elect persons have the said covenant of grace or promise of righteousness and life by ch●ist made to them . . that no where visible prof●ssers of faith is in the covenant of grace . . that the natural child of a believer , no not the naturall child of abraham the father of believers was or is in the covenant of grace , as their child , or barely by vertue of their faith , but onely the elect of them by vertue of their election by god. . that these elect persons , though elected , and having the promise made to them , yet have not the things promised ( if of years of understanding ) till they do believe , they are not justified till then , and so are not actuall partakers of the covenant of grace , or not actually therein . . that no where in scripture is the naturall child of a gentile-believer , or a visible professor of christian faith , termed abrahams seed , and the term of abrahams church-seed , applied to such is a novel expression , not grounded on scripture . . that the formall , proper , and adequate reason why any was to be circumcised , was , not his being in the covenant made with abraham , nor is the reason why any should be baptized , bare●ly his interest in the covenant of grace , but the command of god , in the one , appointing males of eight dayes old of abraahms house , and proselytes thereto to be circumcised ; in the other , discip●es by their own profession of fai●h in ch●ist to be baptized . . that the use of the terms , being in the outward covenant , externall covenant-interest of infants , and such like are mista●es upon the im●gined connexion between the covenant of grace and the initiall seal , as hey call it . now to mr c. his proof . his proof is from rom. . , ● , , , , . that elect infants were abrahams seed in covenant , which i deny not , but say that rom. . . proves not only , that all the elect seed be included in the promise , gen. . . but also that the apostle expresly affirms , that onely the elect are the children of the promise understood spiritually , and they only abrahams seed ▪ acta synod . dordrac judi● . profess . belgic ▪ de . art. pag. . haec propositio [ solis electis hoe promissiones sunt factae ] ex professo probatur à paulo , rom. . . . ames . coron . art. . c. . seminis in●ulcatio solos electos & efficaciter vocatos notari docet apostolo sic hunc locum interpretante , rom. . gal. . . & . . , mr. rutherford exercit. apolog. c. . num . . soli electi dicuntur in scripturis faederati , filii & hoeredes promssionis , rom. . mr norton , mr c. his colleague , commended by mr. co●ton with him , respons . ad apollon . c. . pag. . objectum faederis gratiae sunt soli electi . dr. twiss animadv . in corvin . pag. . negamus deum pacisci faedus gratiae cum omnibus & singulis : dicimus h●c fieri solum cum electis . more may be seen to this purpose in my examen ▪ part . sect. , in this part of the review , sect. . and almost in every pr●t●stant wr●●er of note wh● opposeth the remonstrants of belgia , and other patrons of universall grace , freewill , and falling away from grace . but what mr c. saith and i grant , proves not that infants and little ones of visibly believing parents in church estate , before the infants can make any personal confession or profession of faith in the eovenant , are abrahams church seed to whom the promise , gen. . . belongs , but the con●rary : nor is it he●eby proved , that such infants are covenanters ingaged , or as ifants of abraham and isaac , children of the promise , as if 〈◊〉 formalis ratio of their childrens being children of the promise , w●re abrahams and isaacs believing and inchurching , as mr. c. seems to conceive , it being contrary to the express determination of the apostle , rom . . which excludes ishmael and esau from being children of the promise . nor is it true , that the change of abrahams name , gen. . , , , , &c. compared proves that the children of believers inchurched are abrahams seed , but onely th●t believers of all nations are such , rom. . . mr c. glanceth at a passage in my examen , page . wherein i say , that the apostle , rom. . makes circumcision , a seal of the righteousness of faith , but not to all , or only circumcised persons , but to all believers whether jews or gentiles ; so that according to the apstles doctrine , circumcision in as much as it sealed to abraham the righteousness of faith , which he had yet being uncircumcised , so that it is so far from being true that persons have the promise , therefore they must have the seal in their persons ; that it follows , persons have the promise , therfore they have the seal in abraham , ●hough they never are nor may be sealed in their own persons . to this mr. c. saith , the apostles discourse cleareth it to be otherwise , his scope being not to infringe any gospel-right to the gospel-se●l , but to take off any reasoning in point of justification from any work of the law considered apart from christ : as for the sealing of abrahams believing children the gentiles in abrah●ms sealing , if that were intended , as much might have been affirm●d of the b●lieving children of abraham , as they such , and so the circumcising of such iewes at least had been more than were needed ●o far forth . i reply , i grant the scope to be ●o prove iustification by faith ; but i say ▪ in respect of the present point the words prove no more , but that abrahams personall ci●cumcision was to him and all that belive as he did , whether jewes or gentiles , the seal of the righ●eousness of faith. and i do acknowledge , that if that were all the use of ci●cumcision , there was no simple necessity of any iew believer to be circumcised in their own persons , yet god might think good ex abundanti more ab●ndantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his councell , as the words are , heb. . and therefore would have them also circumcised in th●ir own persons to that end . but however there wer● other ends of circumcision , as ●he prefiguring of christ to come , the distinguishing the israelites from o●her people , &c. and therefore notwithstan●ing abrahams circumcision sealed to jew-believers the righteousness of fai●h , yet it was not needless that they should themselves be circumcised in their own persons for the ends to which god appointed it . and the command being express for their circumcision , they could plead no exemption from their personall circumcision upon that pretence that quatenu● believers they were circumcised in the circumcision of t●eir father abraham while the command stood in force , no not though all the ends had ceased , as that christ were come , all other nations were circumcised as well as they , &c. i say , had these ends and all other ceased , yet without gods releasing of the command , they were to be circumcised . how little that act of christ , luke● ● ▪ ● , , . with mark . . makes for mr c. his purpose , is shewed in the second part of the review before , and so likewise how impertinently esay● . . & , . are alleged , is shewed before in this part of the review . i neither grant that inchurched gentile visible believers are any other where called abrahams spirituall seed : nor do i think anabaptists wil grant , that if they were , then are their children also . but , saith he , the parents being not meerly abstractively considered the covenant-seed , gen. . . ●ut as in reference to their childen with them . for the seed of abraham to whom the covenant gen. . . is made , is the seed in their ge●erations , which necessarily imply and supp●se as the parents generating , so th● children begotten of them , the parents make not the generation alone , nor the children alone , but ●oyntly considered together . answer . no person is the covenant-seed , gen. . but abrahams seed , which being meant of his naturall seed , so it includes all descended from him by isaac and jacob in their ●uture g●nerations ; if meant of his spirituall seed [ their g●nerations ] notes either the ages in which they were born by natural generation , or by spiritual regeneration by fathers in christ , who beget them by the gospel ▪ cor. . but , saith mr. c. here anabaptists sever the subject parties taken into the covenant-consideration , they agree it 's abraham & his spiritual seed , but leave out the notation of the seed , soil . seed in their generations the proselyte gentiles in abrahams house , they were not his carnall seed ; why are they then sealed , but as they were abrahams spiri●ual and church-seed . answer . we sever not the subject parties taken into covenant consideration , as mr. c. speaks , but distinguish them : nor do we leave out that no●ation of seed , scil . in their generations ; but take it in , as i have said ▪ the proselytes , if believers , as abraham , they are his seed by faith , if no● , they are not 〈◊〉 seed according to scripture abrahams church-seed is a new-devised term without scripture : yet the proselytes and their chi●dren were to be circumcised by vertue of the command , whether they had any part in the covenant or not , as being in his house , though not of his seed . and if by gods solemnly enjoyning a seal to a blank , or a seal to no covenant of his , ●e meant , that circumcision of the proselytes was a token of that covenant which was no covenant of gods , i deny it ; it was a covenant of gods , in which he made many promises , it was not a token of a covenant that assured nothing , as a paper in which no●hing is written ( which we call a blank ) there were promises and persons specified in the covenant . but if the meaning be this , that god solemnly enjoyned that such should be circumcised to whom no promise was made in that covenant , i grant it true ishmael , &c. and count it no absurdity to say , god in that sense did solemnly enjoyn the seal to be put to a blank . circumcision , in the institution of it , was a token or signe of the covenant made with abraham , rom. . . to be a seal of the righteousness of faith , is said of no ones circumcision but abrahams . what mr. c. means , that it was a seal of the righteousness of faith , not so much subjectivè as objectivè , rom. . i understand not , except this be his meaning , that it did seal not so much the righteousness of faith to the persons circumcised , as this truth , that righteousness is by faith . being understood of abrahams personall circumcision , i conc●ive it sealed both wayes , of any other mans circumcision ; i find not the apostle calling it the seal of the righteousness of faith. but of seals and sealing i have spoken sufficiently in sundry sections before . i shall not contend about that passage , that the baptism of simon magus was in the nature of it , and gods institution , a visible seal of the most spirituall part of the covenant , and yet did not iscariot and magus partake of the spirituall part of the covenant , my former explication being remembred . and i take it as true which next followes , it is peculiar to the elect to be in the covenant in respect of the participation of the saving efficacy of it , rom. . , , . and hence observe ▪ that none but the elect are rightly said to be in the covenant of grace : for none are in the covenant of grace but they to whom it is made ( for what is it to be in the covenant , but to have it made to him ? so the directory , so rom. . . ) but they to whom the covenant of grace is made , are the elect onely . the covenant of grace is the covenant of saving grace , heb. . , , & . . rom. . . cor. . . heb. . . of regeneration , iustification , &c. but that is made onely to the elect : ergo. the minor is proved thus , they to whom it is made , they have the saving efficacy , otherwise god should make it and not perform it , and so his word fall , which is not to be granted : but the elect onely have the saving efficacie , as mr. c. con●esseth . ergo. i deny not , reprobates may in respect of their own profession , be said to be externally in the covenant of grace , in appearance to me● , in the face of the visible church , but not in respect of gods promise and before him , which they say is sealed in the sacrament . nor do i deny the appointment of god to be to circumcise or baptize reprobates as well as elect , and that the nature of these ordinances is the same on both sorts , though the use and efficacy in part be various . nor do i deny the covenant with abraham one , yet hold it is mixt , which is proved from the words of mr c. here in that it holds forth variety of covenant-blessings ; some more common to all , and some more peculiar to a few . but i deny the gospel doth hold forth blessing , common to any other than the godly . it is true , there are promises of this life , tim. . . cor. . . mark . . and reprobates have some such outward things as the elect , as cloaths , ai●e , life , but not as blessings from the gospel , neither sanctified in the same manner , nor upon the s●me tenure . as for circumcision , it was the covenant metonymically onely , and did confirm the whole covenant sacramentally to elect and reprobate . mr. c. yet adds , that if that sort of persons , to wit , infants , or abrahams spirituall seed without personall actuall faith by which it 's said onely persons come to be abrahams seed , it 's enough to prove , that gentile inchurched believers infants are the the seed of abraham . but that is fully proved from gal. . . . . . , , . where , by christ , is meant christ mysticall , that is , christ with his body the church , as cor. . . if then infants be not abrahams seed , then are they not members of christ , nor of the invisible church , and so are without salvati●n . to which i answer , that i never denied that elect infants were abrahams spirituall seed , nor said onely by actuall faith persons are abrahams spiritual seed ▪ but grant that some infants are abrahams spirituall seed , whether by election onely , or by seed of fai●h , or by such a special secret work as is unknown to us , like jacobs struggling in the womb , and taking hold on his brothers heel , or john baptists leaping in the womb of his mother for joy , and so are of the body of christ , and members of the invisible church , and thereby saved . but i deny that infants of gentile believers , whether elect or not , are abrahams spiritual seed , and in that respect in the covenant of grace or promise of god being their god , and thereby admitted to baptism . but mr. c. adds . i say to exclude that sort of persons scil . believers infants from being a part of the visible-church in genera● is to exclude them from any ordinary state and way of salvation . nay i will go further and say , that for any to suppose all the individual infants and each of them which came of such inchurched parents , not to be also par●s of this body of christ the visible church , and consequently not to be abrahams spiritual seed , is to exclude them from a state and way of salvation . in respect to the ordinary course thereo● , and so to leave them all under the consideration of such a way to be saved in as is only extraordinary : ordinarily they are not to be supposed to be saved , or at least it is not to be supposed , that ordinarily , or that in an ordinary way any pagans , or turkes out of the visible church , or any in and of rome as tridentine and antichristian should be saved : yet god may and somtimes doth , and will have some souls brought on to him thence , and even from amongst mahometans &c. but all will yeild i suppose that this is an extraordinary case : and so crosseth not that rule , that without even the visi●le church there is no salvation ; scil . taking the maxime in reference to ordinary times , and with all to the ordinary course and w●y of attaining unto salvation . ans. mr. c. his drift i conceive is to prove , that if infants of believers be not visible church-members they have no ordinary state and way of salvation , and that the maxime is true , that out of the visible church in reference to ordinary times and withal to the ordinary course and way of attainining unto salvation there is no salvation . against which i oppose that if the maxim out of the church there is no sal●a●ion , be understood of the visible church , & the ordinary state & way of salvation , it will as well concern mr. c. to shew how children of believ●rs endued with a reasonable soul and humane body , yet still-born or dying in their mothers womb with her and never born are provided for an ordinary way of salvation as wel as for us concerning infants born alive . i suppose they will not say infants dying in their mothers womb and there buried , and never brought to light , are visible members of the church , who were never visible men , nor that they are to be baptized . what ordinary way & state of salvation external have they more than mahometanes ? if it be said they have election , the vertue of christs death the promise of god according to election , the secret work of the spirit i grant it , and the same may be said of infants living , nor can it be certainly and without doubt denied of papists and m●home●a●s infants . though i confess it is far more probable that oridnarily god gives these means to infants of believers whether churched or unchurched than to the infants of others , and rather to the infants of true believers , than 〈◊〉 professors of faith . yet i dare not determine certainly thereof because of the express resolution of the apostle rom. . concerning ishmael and esau , and his reference thence v. , , , , , . and if he count ●e certain there is no salvation out of the visible church in an ordinary way there being no ordinary way to estate infants in the visible church ( which i grant not as well as he ) but baptism , then he doth as good as affirm , that ordinarily no infant is saved without baptism , which is either the popish tenent or not much shor● of it . this will the more urge m. c. because he limits the promise to abrahams visible church-seed in reference to church-covenant , and i supp●se they of n. e. baptize not infants of parents not inchurched ; what ordinary way of salvation have children of believers not inchurched , who are not accounted visible church members when their parents were not ? and the like must be said of the children of excommunicate persons , of uncertain originall apostates , who are with them , or some of them no visible church-members : how are they in the visible church , and what provision is for them ? for my part i conceive that if the matter be impartially considered , i think their doctrine is pressed with the like difficulty that mine is . i affirm that believers infants , and infants of unbelievers , if elect , are certainly saved ordinarily , that is , according to the constant course of gods purpose by vertue of gods p●omise , christs death , and the spirits secret working , though they be neither baptized , nor are visible church-members and i think they can say no more concerning infants of believers dying with the mother in the womb , and never brought to light , which is no unu●uall thing . i say that it is very probable because of generall indefinite promises and frequent experience that the infants of believing parents are e●ect , when the infants of infidels are not . yet i cannot affirm they are elect , because the promises are not universall to every believers infants ; yea , if they were , as pedobaptists would have them , universall in respect of externall privileges ( which is not true ) yet rhere could be no certainty of election and salvation inferred thence . and therefore though there be a better ground of hope of the salvation of a believers infant than others ; yet in a question concerning ●he certain●y of the event whether they are saved or no , i must suspend my judgement , and leave it to gods secret will , having no rule revealed whereby to determine it . if mr. c. assure any more , i conceive he wiil deceive himself and others . dr. twiss . animadvers . in corvin . pag. . saith thus : ad h●c fortè in ea sententia sunt nostri theologi ut propositum dei de salvandis fidelium liberis in infantili aetate morientibus haud liquido satis demonstrari in sacris literis . et sanè non diffiteor exitia hujus rei suppeditari nobis ex sacris li●eris indi●i● , quibus tamen acquiescimus . but mr c. adds , such then as exclude all infants of believers one or other from the notion of abrahams spiritual seed , from covenant and church-estate , they put them in the pagans , genti●es estate , 〈◊〉 of which paul speakes , who being they and others strangers from the promise and covenants , and from the visible church : they place them in that respect in an estate of persons that are without god in the world , and so under the divel the god of the world ; and in an hopeless estate , neither they nor any for them can have any grounded hope of them , they are without hope , in regard at least of any ordinary way or mean of salvation , eph. . , . answ. i exclude not all infants of believers one or other from the notion of abrahams spirituall seed , from covenant and church-estate , meaning this of being abrahams spiritual seed , and included in the covenant of grace and invisible church , which alone can make god to be their god , estate them in christ , be the ground of a certain hope of their salvation , and that according to an ordinary way . they that teach them to be visible church-members and baptize them , cannot give parents a grounded certain infallible hope of salvation without this ordinary way ; i assen , nor can they give more assurance of that way of baptism , than may be given without it , baptism not saving without the answer of a good conscience towards god , pet. . . neither that nor their imaginary visible church-membership assuring that they are not under the divel , nor without god in the world . and if they do , they do it without scipture , and experience doth too often refute them . mr c go●s on . nor let it seem grievous that our friends and brethren in the lord of ●ame and worth in the church , have , as it seemeth , urged that in case of such an exclusion of believers children , they are made as turks or indians , so far forth in regard that not being in covenant nor church-estate , the apostle truly states such persons cases , they are without hope , and without god in the world : he maketh no distinction of potentia remota and propinqua in that case . answ. it is a grievance to us their brethren in the faith , that mr m. and such men of name and worth in the church , should so misrepresent our tenet as they do , with whom mr c. seems to concur . mr. m. his calumny in misrepresenting my words in his defence , part . sect . as if i had said , that i know no warrant to think election to reach believers children more than unbelievers children , that i know no more promise for them than for the children of unbelievers , is answered in my apologie , sect . . i have shewed here and in my examen , part sect. . and in my apologie sect. . that i put the elect of them into the covenant of grace , and in the invisible church , and this onely is the ground of a sure hope of their interest in god , and christ ; and salvation . and that they are elect i give probable reasons which are not competent to the infants of turks and pagans , . generall indefinite promises not made to turkes and pagans , . the payers of parents and godly for them , . their education and breeding among the godly , whereby they are in a neerer possibility to be godly , than others . . the ●requent experience that the children of the godly prove such ; which yet because those promises are not particular and definite , that is , determining this particular go●d of salvation to each particular person , & prayers are made and heard with limitation of gods will & the education may fa●l in its effect , and experience is not so constant , but that it falls out otherwise in many , therfore there 's no sufficient ground for certain hope but only probable . mr m. mr c. and others , assign ● more , to wit being in covenant & church-estate . but mr c. pag. . confesseth , it is peculiar to the elect to be in covenant in respect of the saving effi●acy of it , rom. . , , . and that being in covenant and church-estate , which he makes common to all , elect and reprobate , cannot assure them certainly of salvation ; therefore were it granted that there were such a covenant of church-privileges and that they were visible church-m●●bers and to be baptized which i conceive to be fictitious ) yet this c●uld 〈◊〉 m●ke the h●pe of their salvation more than probable , no no●●o probable as the reasons i give , where i infer that they do us wrong to instil into peoples 〈◊〉 tha● which tends to make us odious , that our doctrin takes aw●y all 〈…〉 hope of infants salvation , dying in infancy , whē in truth the promise of salvation as we assign it is the same wth●he promise as they assign it , & the grounds we give of the hope of the infants interest , are as sufficient to make it probable as th●i●s , ●f they were supposed true , which yet notwithstanding all they say , we know a●e fictitious . now hereby is a plain answer to mr. c. if infants of tur●s be any of them elected , which mr. c. seems to grant when he saith , god may and sometimes doth and will have some souls brought on to him from rome , and even amongst the mohometans , &c. we do grant they are really and before god in as good a condition as believers children , though not in appearance to us and in respect of their present estate , nor can they be said to be without christ , without god in the world in all respects . but in respect of present state and appearance to us , neither infidels nor their children are in any condi●ion so hopefull as believers and their children , because of the generall indefinite promises they have , the benefit of prayers , which are not with a like a●dency : for infidels though we pray for them also in a more generall manner , the benefit of their education , which if it be to indians children , yet not with a like care . and if it be , we should not think it absurd to say , that if they be brought into godly families , their salva●ion is hopefull as well as believers children . else why doth mr cotton conceive in the way of the churches of new england , in the latter end they may be baptized . and the experience is very frequent concerning godly mens children proving godly , but very rare that an infidels child living among infidels , is converted . and for a word of promise for faith and hope to rest upon , as i said , it hath been shewed , that neither mr m. nor mr c. nor any other can produce any promise in scripture that assures the salvation of an infant of a reall believer , much lesse of a meer professor dying in infancy ; yea , to retort mr c. his argument , we are not to sorrow without hope , concerning our brethren that dye at age : yet we have no certain word of faith to relye on , but that go ● will be the god of elect and true believers , luke . , . but tha● this promise reacheth to our brother deceased at age , we know onely probably , though the probability is greater by reason of his profession and conversation , yet at most but probable , notwithstanding those signes , we are not certain he is elect , he may live and dye an hypocrite . many are canonized for saints in ●eaven who perhaps are among unclean spirits in hell . we therefore in this case are fain to suspend our judgment about the certainty , and to content our selves with a likely hope upon probable grounds . and so we may do concerning our children according to my doctrine , though i confesse the hope is more probable of such a one than of an infant ; yet sometimes also there appears as much cause of ●ear . how ever this i say , that were it not to make our doctrine of antipaedobap●ism odious to parents , who being indulgent to their children , are easily moved to passion towards them , th●t say any thing of them that seems harsh , and are very much inclined to them and their words that tend to feed ●hem with such conceits as occasion their hopes , though but fond , of good to them , our doctrine would be free from this exception . but such courses should be far from men of worth , who should present truth nakedly , without respect to mens affections . as mr c. tells us , he hath been the longer in proof of this seventh conclusion , in that it is the very hinge of the controversie : so i have answered it more fully , though it have been very tedious to me by reason of mr. c. his confused and impertinent dictates . and i do declare that i do not see reason from that which mr. c. hath said to unsay what i said , that the children of believers covenant-estate , at least ecclsiasticall , as asserted by paedobaptists , is a new gospel , not elder than zuinglius , and therefore rejecting it , i shall hold that to be gospel which i find so called , cor . , , , , &c. rom. . , . gal. . . tim , . . rom. . . and such like places and wish mr. c & others of his mind , who upon such uncertain and impertinent allegations , impose their gospel upon mens consciences , to ponder with more seriousness the apostles words● , gal. . . if any man preach any other gospel than that ye have received , let him be accursed . sect . xlv . mr c. his answers to objections against his seventh conclusion , part . . c. . sect. . of his just vindic. are considered , and mr. bl. his tenent concerning the generall term of a covenant , that it is a mutuall agreement . i wave the first objection here , and for my speeches about pharez , zara , and others , and that of the jewes being branches of the olive by their birth , that i forget not my self , and how far i own them and wherein i correct them , or explain them , may be seen in the first part of the review , sect. . ● , . the second objection is thus , if infants be in the covenant of grace , and born so , then such infants were born in the covenant , and never out . and besides , gods covenant of saving grace bi●g absolute , and undertaking to give saving grace to such as are in covenant with him , all such must be saved , unless god fail of his truth . to this mr. c. answers , . that covenant of grace , as i. s. acknowledgeth it to be mentioned , deu. . it was made with little ones then unborn intentionally , v. , . as well as with those then present actually : so that when they were born ▪ they were born in the covenant and never out . as much may be said of the infant elect seed , or children of the promise dying infants , they were born so , and never out of that estate after they were actually existent : yea they were all girded in the covenant , jer. . answ. the passage deut. . . is not meant of gods covenant or promise to them , but their promise or covenant to god , as appears in that v. . moses is said to make the covenant with them , that is , to engage them in their own persons for themselves and little ones to own god and his lawes , and v. . it is said , before the lord our god , which shewes that the person making that covenant , v. . was distinct from the lord , and this covenant he made with him that was not there with them that day , to wit , the unborn posterity , as rightly m. c. and others eonceive , and this covenant moses made with them by engaging them by an oath of their p●inces and progenitors , in the same sense as saul and the israelites were bound to the oath made by joshuah and the princes of israelites to the gibeonites ▪ so that those unborn are not said to be in gods covenant of grace as made by him , and so intentionally onely because not existent ; but they were in covenant with god virtually , because of the obliga●ion which lay on them by their progenitors and princes engagement for them to take the lord for their god , and upon their obedience god engaged himself to establ●sh them to be a people unto himself . and this , i confess , did ever oblige them ; but it is nothing to the objection which speaks of gods covenant as made to infants , not of infants covenant as made to god. nevertheless i confess what ever were the authors meaning in that objection , it is no absurdity to grant , that elect infants dying so , were born in the covenant and never out , that is , they had the promise of god made to them at , yea and before their birth , and in respect of the actuall possession of the benefits of the covenant , they were in the covenant before their death and never out . but so are not elect infants dying in respect of outward church-privileges , they are not born visible church-members , nor subject to be baptized . . saith mr c. gods covenant did not barely offer , or promise to covenant ; but made a covenant , a covenant and an oath with them that day , deut. . , , , . and amongst other promises engaged himself to circumcise their hearts chap. . . yet were not all in heart circumcised , and yet the promise of god failed not , being in the generall propounded to them conditionally , and not as it is said here absolutely , at least it had reference to them all in common . the word of the promise took not effect in as many of the jewes to whom the covenant promises externally belonged , yet it followed not , that therefore it took no effect at all , and that god was unfaithfull , for it took effect in others , rom. . . and . , , . and so here . answ. what this is to the objection which is here answered , i do not well understand . gods covenant of saving grace , whether expressed gen. . . to a●raham and his spirituall seed , or heb. . or elswhere , is absolute in respect of the persons to whom , god takes into covenant persons of his own good pleasure without any previous disposition moving him to promise to this rather than that , though some benefits of that covenant are promised upon condition , and all those to whom it is made , must be saved , unless god fail of his truth . but for the covenant , deut . , , , . it was their covenant to god , as well as gods covenant to them , nor was it the covenant of grace according to the gospell made to gentile-believers , but a nationall engagement of the israelites to observe the lawes of god which moses made with them at gods command in the land of moab , besides the covenant which he made with them in hor●b , and gods engagement thereupon to take them for a people while they observed his laws in which covenant first moses tells them what god hath done for them , notwithstanding their dulness to perceive it ; and then ejoyns them , v. to keep the words of the covenant and do them , that they might prosper in all that they did : and then tells them , that they all stood there in a full assembly , that they might be engaged for themselves , their little ones , strangers within their camp , and posterity to observe gods commands , and then tells them that god would establish them for a people unto himself , that is , that he would continue them to be a distinct people to him from other nations , and be a god to them according to his oath to abraham , isaac and jacob , that is , to drive out ●he canaanites , to give them their land , to make them great and prosperous , which is manifestly a covenant proper to israel , and it is not denied to be propounded to them conditionally , and to have reference to them all in common , and was of the same sort with the covenant at mount sinai ▪ not the covenant of regenerating and saving grace made to the gentiles , called the new covenant confirmed by christs blood , deut. . . god promised to circumcise their heart and the heart of their seed : which promise i do not now conceive to be conditionall : for though v. . there be a condition expressed , yet i think it is not a condition of the promise v. . but of the promise v. . to wit , of restoring from captivity upon their seeking of god. but if it be made a condition of the promise v. . yet it is not a condition competent to infants , nor is it there made to any but the israelites , and to them onely at the time of their return from captivity in reference to their re-establishing in the land of canaan , and so was not common to them all , much less to all believing gentiles at all times . it is untrue that the promise of saving grace is made to any onely externally , or that it takes not effect in all to whom it is made , or that any such thing is meant rom. . . & . , , . though i deny not that there were many promises to israel after the flesh , which being indefinite in respect of persons , and conditionall upon obedience to the lawes given by moses , took not effect in all the israelites , though in generall propounded , and therefore notwithstanding some attained them not , yet the faith of god was not without effect . but all this is nothing to the objection concerning gods covenant of saving grace in christ , which is not shewed to be made to any but the saved , nor shewed to be in respect of the persons taken into covenant conditional . saith mr. c. this argument supposeth that one cannot be within the covenant of saving grace externally , but they must be in a saving estate , the contrary whereunto appeareth , concl. . and it is said of sundry illegitimate jewish children , that they were within the covenant of saving grace , namely externally : for the author cannot mean other . and yet of all such who will say , they were all in a saving estate ? even esau's birthright was more than right to isaac's temporall estate as born of isaac , it was a church blessing as well as a naturall and civill . ans. that any one is in the covenant of saving grace onely externally , is not proved before . my words examen pag. . which m● c. seems to mean , [ ●h●t pharez and zarah of judah and tamar , jephie of gilead , and many others were within the covenant of saving graces and church-privileges ] are not meant of the covenant of saving grace ex●ernally onely , but also internally . esau's birth-right was more than right to isaac's temporall estate as born of isaac , it is that which jacob was not born to , for it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the right of the first born , which jacob had not but by purchase and blessing , nor is it denied to be a church-blessing , but that it was the spirituall blessing promised to abrahams seed , to wit justification and salvation from the covenant of saving grace i do not conceive : for that was not limited to the first born as the birth-right was , and therefore it se●ms to have been either the superiority , or the inh●ritance of canaan , or the descent of christ and the chuch of god from him ( to which i most incline ) the losse of wh●ch being a great losse , and having with it the privation of interest in the covenant of saving grace , he being h●ted of god , made isaac tremble and esau cry , and were a 〈◊〉 instance to set before the cristian hebrews , lest th●y through prophane under●●●●ing christ , fail of the grace of god. mr. c. adds . object but saith ● . s. the covenant of grace being a covenant , there must be a mutuall agreement betwixt the covenanters , and so knowledge and consideration of the terms thereof , and restipulation as in mens covenants . henry den a little differently maketh a necessity of the persons entering into covenant with god , scil . by faith unto covenant-right , and not meerly gods entering into covenant with the creature , for so he entered into covenant with the beasts , &c. gen. . answer . to which i answer , the covenant of grace is as well a testament , cor. . heb . now a testament may be , and useth to be made in reference to little ones without their knowledge , nor do any us● to deny a childs right in the testators will because it was taken in amongst other legacies in the bequeathed legacies before it understood the same . nor will it be denied in the case of the elect seed , the choice parties in gods covenant , gen. . that they , many of them , dying infants , without actuall knowledge , were not therefore children of the promise , or that that solemn covenant deut. . , , , , , , , & . , , , , , &c. with that people , wherein conditions also were propounded on their parts , that therefore the covenant was not made betwixt the little ones there present because they neither understood ▪ nor could actually subscribe to the conditions , the contrary being there expressed : no , rather it sufficed , that the childrens covenant-estate being the parents privilege , whence the encouragements to abraham to walk with god , gen. . , &c. from that amongst other encouragements , that god would become his seeds god also , & , . v. . and so deut. and . amoongst other encouragements to the parents that is one , v. . that god will do so for their seed also : yea the children being reckoned as in their parents , as levi paid tythes in abraham , &c. yea , the externall avouching a covenant may be of god , being owned as the children● , deut. ● . , . yea the childrens circumcision being as well the parents covenant duty : whence called the covenant , or the covenant parties covenant part or duty as well as the token of gods covenant , gen. . , , , . they restipulate in their parents knowing acceptance of the covenant and professed owning of it upon the covenant terms , as well upon their childrens part as their own & they restipulate in a passive reception of the cvenant-condition and bond too after imitation of their father abrahams purpose● . s. confessed circumcision was annexed to the covenan● : yea , the bastard children of judah and gilead , and others , are acknowledged to be in the covenant of saving grace , which yet could not personally restipulate in a way of actuall knowledge , or faith , or the like . answ. the objection , as it is not mine , so i might let it and the answer passe , but that there are some things in the answer to it , that do requi●e consideration . in the first part of this review ▪ sect. . answering mr. stephens his argumen●s for the convertibility , as he ca●ls i● , of a word of promise and a word of command , from the general nature of covenants between men and men , i had said , the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●o not alwayes note a mutuall covenant , and mutuall performanc●s ▪ and instanced in gen. . . and said , , there is a single covenant as well as mu●uall , and further added , that if it be true , that such a convertibility must needs be between those persons that do contract according to the generall nature of covenants , then there can be no covenant between god and inf●nt 〈◊〉 infant cannot contract . if any say the parents do 〈◊〉 act for them to : i say , be it so ; then according to this arguing , they should also seal o● be sealed for them hereup●n mr bl. vindic f●d . append. pag. . taks occasion to answer part of this , maintaining pag. . that there is a mutuall contract , and mutual performances , to which persons are engaged , not onely usually in covenants , but in all covenants , and that i● is of the general nature of covenants , that there should be such a convertibility as that both must , if not seal , yet contrast or perform , and where a seal is vouchsafed , must accept of it . and to the allegation of gen. . , . answers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is taken improperly , as job . . whereto i reply , that it must needs be confessed , that covenant , job . . must needs be understood improperly , for the stones of the field cannot properly covenant , that is , promise any thing , who are there said to be in covenant with man , but gen. . , . where god is said to establish his covenant with all living . i see not why it should be taken improperly , sith covenanting doth properly agree to god , who doth in proper sense promise , and in improper sense it would not be rightly said of god , that he did not make a conant , but as it were make a covenant , or do some other thing which is resembled by making a covenant , which must be the explication of that phrase if god be conceived to speak improperly . if mr bl. do conceive any tropicall impropriety of speech in that expression , i suppose he cannot reduce it to any trope in rhetorick , but that he will ma● the sense of the words . and if gods covenant with noah and his sons , be properly understood v. . i see not any reason why the same term wi●hout repetition applied to beasts , as the object of the covenant , c●n be taken any otherwise than properly . besides , this covenant gen. . seems to be called gods oath , isa. . . and therefore is properly taken . nor do i know any interpreter who understands it improperly . paraeus hence gathers , foedus hoc est universale dei cum omnibus creaturis terrestribus . & est absolutum non conditiona●um . and the new annotations of mr. l●y ▪ on gen. have it thus : some allege this place against the anabaptists , and thus it may serve to refute this fancy , viz. that the covenant of god may be made with , and the seal of the covenant applied to creatures that have not the use of reason , which they deny , in denying the administration of baptism to them . which pass●ge although it have this falshood , that we deny that the covenant of god may be ma●e with or to infants : yet it appears that they who speak thus , understand gods covenant gen. . ▪ properly . the promise heb. . . of writing gods lawes in their hearts , is called the covenant , unto which no covenant is prerequired , and to take away the evasion , as if it were not a covenant properly so called , but a prophecy , or but a part of the covenant , there being other promises which prerequire conditions , it is to be observed , that it is not onely called the better covenant , v. . as being made a law upon better promises , and having a better priesthood to execute it , but also it is opposed to the old covenan● , and as coming in its stead , and therefore if in the one it be properly meant , it is so in the other : and jerem. . ● . the promise , that he will not turn away from them to do them good , but will put his fear in their hearts , that they shall not depart from him ▪ is his covenant . the covenant to abraham and his se●d is called promises , gal . . which shews that promis●s on one part may b● called ● covenant . and though in de●ds indented there are mutuall promises , yet in deeds poll as the lawyers call them , i think a person is said to covenant to another , though there be no condition or promise required of him to whom the deed is made . as for that which mr. bl. saith , where there is a seal vouchsafed , the party to whom the promise is , must accept of it : it is true if it be required , but it is expected that it should be shewed , that god ever required the infants of believers to be baptized in their own persons . to return to mr. c. most of the things he answers are granted , or else examined before ; but the chiefest thing in the answer is denied , to wit , that parents knowing acceptance of the covenant , and their passive reception of the covenant-condition and bond to after imitation of their father abrahams faith and obedience , is or may be termed the infants restipulation intituling to baptism . in the answer to the next objection , mr. c seems to charge us rather than himself , to block up the ordinary way to regeneration , and to debar believers children from the ordinary means of their chief good , by denying them interest in the word of promise , the which is such a means , &c. but therin mr c. his charge is but vain : for the word of promise , which is the means of regeneration , is not the covenant of externall privileges , but the promise of saving grace in christ , which we debar them of no more than mr. c. doth . and when he denies that he makes every believer to be abraham , sure he must do so if he expound gen. . . i will be a god to thee abraham , that is , to every believer , and to thy seed , that is , every believers seed . and when he grants that god doth not promise such a particular land now as to abraham , and that the multiplying of abrahams , &c. was of peculiar consideration , he must grant that the covenant made with abraham had peculiar domestick promises not common to all believers , which is all one as to say , it was a mixt covenant , and that circumcision had some reason from the promises in the covenant , which were p●culiar to abrams naturall posterity , which is sufficient to prove there is not par ratio ▪ or the same reason of bapt●zing infants , as for circumcising them . i find no where any but abraham a covenant-father , as mr. c. would have it , no where doth god say he would be a god to isaac , and jacob , and to their seed : nor is it said , rom. . . , that they were covenant fathers to their posterity , nor jesse a covenant-root to david , isai. . . and by mr c. his doctrine , inchurched believers are made abrahams , sith it makes the prom●ses to be to them and their seed , which is ascribed to abraham onely , gal . . luke . . but mr. c. objects , that the apostle calls all those inchurched jewes of old , our fathers , fathers to him and to the gentiles , corinthian members , corinth : . , &c. to which i answer , they could not be called the corinthians naturall parents , being not descended from them ; nor their covenant-fathers , for they were many of them such , as god was not well pleased with , v. . and the corin●hians desce●ded not from them , and therefore derived no ex●ernall church-privilege from them : therefore either it must be understood that they were called ancestors of the corinthian christians , who are called idolaters , chap. . . either in the sense we call any in foregoing generations our fathers though we are not descended from them by naturall generation , or else by the figure of communication , wherein that is spoken as common to others with the persons mentioned , which is not common indeed , but either ou● of familiarity , indulgence , desire to ingratiate , or such like reason we attribute it to them to whom it is not to be attributed , as paul , ephes. . , . peter pet. . . which was not true of them . philip. . . acts . . but meant of the gentiles to whom they wrot , col. . . gal. . . and so our fathers is not of you corinthians , but of me and softheues , cor. . , or by an enallage of persons , as when paul saith , thess. . . we which are alive , it is not to be conceived to be true of himself , or of any of the thessalonians to whom he then wrot , but it is [ we ] for [ they ] the first for the third person . but saith mr. c. if isaac and jacob were not such fathers to their seed also , as was abraham in covenant and church-respects , how then are the jewes said to be beloved for their [ fathers ] sakes ? surely it was not for their sakes as men , and naturall fathers , but as spirituall and covenant-fathers , rom. . , . compared ; yea the covenant is expresly made in those terms to isaac & to his seed , to jacob and to his seed , gen. . , , , & , . and so though they were abrahams church and covenant seed , yet covenant fathers to others , and so gentile inchurched believers are abrahams church-seed , yet covenant-fathers to their children . the term root , and first fruits , and the term fathers , rom. . . . are not proved to be the same . the fathers , it 's not denied to comprehend isaac and jacob , as well as abraham : but they are called fathers there in respect of the naturall genera●ion of the israelites to be re-ingraffed , not as covenant-fathers propagating externall church privileges even to gentile inchurched believers : for they are there reckoned as the israelites progenitors , not the gentile inchurched believers progenitors . yet i deny not that god hath reference in that passage to his covenant made with them , and his love to them ▪ and so the jewes now broken off , yet are beloved by god , with an intention to restore their posterity out of remembrance of his ancient amity and covenant with their forefathers , which cannot be verified of the gentile inchurched believers in respect of their children . neither gen. . , , , nor gen. . , , is either of the evangelicall promises made to abraham , gen. . , a father of many nations have i made thee , or that v. . to be a god to him and his seed , made either to isaac , gen. . , , , or jacob , gen. . , . though the promises of multiplying their seed , blessing them , giving them the land of canaan in their seed , blessing all the nations or families of the earth , be there mentioned , which , with sundry passages , of the apostle rom. . , , , . rom. . , , . gal. , , , and other places assure me those evangelicall promises , gen. . . . were made to abraham peculiarly , neither as a patriarch out of a reason common to him with other patriarks , nor as a believer ●ut of a reason common to him wi●h other believers , but out of a peculiar consideration of ●im , either as father of believers by his exemplary faith , or as a person elected by god to have the covenant instated in him and his seed . as for mr. c. his answer to the objection from rom. . . if that text prove not that all that are abrahams seed are actuall believers , yet i● proves that the promise is sure to all that are abrahams seed by actuall believing as he did , and consequently are saved . to his qustion , if all members of the visible church be not abrahams seed , what right have they to the seal of the covenant made to abrahams seed ? i answer ▪ right to circumcision ●nd baptism is not from the covenant , but according to gods appointment to some , whether they be in covenant or not , abrahams seed or not . gal. . , , . gal. . . i have formerly shewed that by [ vs all ] are not meant every galatian christian professor , but true believers , as rom. . cor. , . cor. . . & therefore thence it cannot be gathered , that any meer professor of faith is abrahams seed , much less his infants . none but true believers are said gal. . , to be baptized into christ , and to put on christ , though others were baptized into his name : which appears verse . where they are said to be the sons of god through faith in christ jesus , and yet there were other than elect persons in that church , and they baptized . mr. c. methinks should not be ignorant that what is said of persons in the churches indefinitely , is sometimes verified onely of the choyce party , cor. . . thess. . . pet. . . & . . by a synecdoche of the whole for a part nor doth mr c. his distinction of baptizing into christ , putting on christ , being children of the promise , being by one spirit baptized into one body , attributing these to all sacramentally , and in facie ecclesiae , suit well to these places , in which the predicate cannot be attributed in truth to those that are meerly such . as for the last objection , mr. c. must needs be guilty of making three parties in the covenant , abraham , his seed believers , and their infants . for believers are not comprehended under abraham , but under his seed , nor believers naturall infants comprehended under abrahams seed , except they be true believers , or elect persons , nor in the covenant made to abraham and his seed doth abraham sustain the person of all believers , jewes and genti●es , but of the father of them , and therefore as yet mr. c. his conclusion remains unproved , that the covenant interest at least externall and ecclesiasticall of infants of inchurched believers , is gospel , but a figment of mr. c. not found in scripture . sect . xlvi . the , , chapters of mr. blakes vindic. faeder is are examined , and it is shewed , that he hath not proved the covenant of grace in gospel times to admit or to be made to any but the elect regenerate . sith mr. bl. is accounted one of the chief patrons of infant baptism , my purpose is to examine the remainder of that which he hath written in his vindic. foed . against me for infant baptism , and may be conceiv●d to be yet unanswered . ch. ▪ pag. , . he heaps up many texts to prove that in old testament times the covenant was made with israel in the vttermost latitude and extent with all that bore the name of israel , which i grant , understanding it of the national covenant , deut. . and of the covenant of the law , exod . &c. but deny it being meant of the covenant o● evangelical grace , which is the onely covenant the people of god are now under , and which alone is the question now , who are in this covenant ? or to whom is this covenant or the promise● of it made by god ? i assert as before , sect. . that it is made onely to the elect ▪ and m. bl. pag. . yeelds that many orthodox writers seemingly restrain the covenant one●y to the elect and regenerate . but he addes some distinctions , whereby he thinks what they say may be salve● from self contradictions . . of a two fold covenant , a single , ▪ a double to perform both parts , to save upon repentance , and to give a new heart : but he doth not shew that there is any evangelical covenant now which is not double , nor that either the double or single is made with any but the elect . . of an inward covenant , which ●e grants to be made onely to the elect ; and an outward , which , he saith , is a covenant properly so called , and which scripture holds out for the covenant of god with his people , in which all professed christians so called are , which puts them into a capacity of sacraments , and their children of the initial sacrament : but what this outward covenant is , or where it is to be found i know not ; what i find about it ●s shewed to be vain , sect. . and mr. bs. refutation of it in his apology against mr. bl. pag. , , ● ▪ saves me any further labour to shew it to be a figment . of being in covenant according to title to the covenant , or to the benefits of the covenant ; and saith , the right of covenant belongs to all that externally mak● profession , the benefit onely to the elect . but i know no right of covenant , but what is by gods promise , and surely all to whom god promiseth have the benefit of the covenant ; and to imagine , that the covenant of grace is to any to whom the grace following the covenant is not , is to make gods covenant and word to fall , which the apostle abhorred , rom. . . and to make the covenant of grace as liable to complaint ●s the first covenant , contrary to heb. ▪ , , , , ▪ . of entring into covenant , which all visible professors do , and stedfastness in it , which do onely the elect and faithfull , psal. . ● . but this text speaks not of the covenant of evangelical grace as if any were entred into it who were not stedfast in it : but of the covenant of the law with the jewish people , which is not the covenant in which the gentiles are under the gospel . and to mr. bls. confused talk i again say , . that the covenant of evangelical grace is made by god onely to the elect , and that in respect of gods promise none but they are in the covenant , nor is there to any right to sacraments or capacity of an initial seal barely by that being in covenant . . that profession of faith may cause a man to be taken to be in the covenant by the guides and brethren of the visible church , in the face of which he may have title to sacraments , but his infant children have no title thereby to baptism . . that from the beginning none but the elect had the covenant of grace made to them . . that from the beginning it is not proved the children with their parents to have been no not in the imaginary outward covenant . but let●s v●ew what mr. bl. saith ▪ . he alledgeth matth. . . and takes it as freely con●est , that a disciple of christ is in covenant with god , and tels us that the covenant matth. . . is committed to man to work , and to judge of it being wrought , to put a seal for ratification and confirmation of it ; which cannot be restrained to the elect , for they onely are known to god ; an elect person and a church member should be termini convertibiles , the seal of the spirit , and the seal of the sacrament are in equal latitude ; to baptize an unregenerate person is to put a seal to a blank , as high an abuse of that sacred ordinance as the circumcision of the sichemites , gen. ▪ . answ. it is not confest by me that a disci●le of christ , that is every disciple of christ is in covenant with god , meaning it in respect of gods covenant or promise of evangelical grace made to him , nor do i know of any covenant , matth. . . committed to man to work , and to judge of it being wrought , and to put a seal for ratification and confirmation , though i grant every disciple professing christ is in some sense in covenant with god , that is , by his act of profession doth engage himself to follow christ , and so in that respect is in covenant with god , and that matth. . . the apostles are injoyned to make disciples by preaching the gospel , and baptize them , which may be done without working a covenant between god and man , ( which phrase doth imply that a minister can work god into covenant , which is in my apprehension an absurd conceit ) or judging of a covenant being wrought , or putting to a seal for confirmation of it . and for the absurdities mr. bl. infers from the denial of restraining the covenant to the elect , i count the first not to follow upon my tenet , sith i conceive a man may be a church-member who is not in the covenant of grace ; and for the second , i count it no absurdity according to my explicat●on before given , sect. ▪ . though i do withal declare , that the seal of the sacrament is a term i reject for the reasons given before , sect. . and for the third , i count it no abuse to put a seal to a blank , that is , to baptize a person who is not in the covenant of evangelical grace . as for the d . argument mr. bl. would draw from matth. . . to prove that the covenant of god is onely a covenant professed , because matth. ▪ . a whole nation is in gods ordinary way of administration in a capacity to attain and enter into it , it is answered in the d . part of this review , sect . . where it is shewed that matth. ● . . there is no such command as to make disciples , and bap●ize the whole of a nation , even the infants . mr. bl. adds a d . text , matth , . . & . . whence he argues thus ; if there be a call from god in the times of the n. t. in a far greater latitude then the grace of election , that of many called few onely are elected , then the covenant in the n.t. times is not to be restrained to the elect and regenerate , but contains all that professedly accept the terms of the covenant , and visibly appear a people of god. this is evident , seeing the call is into covenant ; all at the feast were called ones , all the hired labourers were covenant-servants . to conceive men to be called of god , and not to be in covenant with god , is a full contradiction . the call hath its terminus a quo and its terminus ad quem ; a state which upon call they leave , and a new state on which they enter . they are upon this call in a nearer relation to god then the rest of the world , otherwise they were the same as ever , and not called at all . but there is a call in n. t. times , &c. ergo. answ. the consequence of the major is denied , and to the proof of it i say , . the call is not into covenant with god in the sense which 〈◊〉 n●w in question : for now the question is , whether there be a covenant in the n. t. wherein god engageth himself to be god , and to account for his people any besides the elect ? now no man is called into covenant in this sense , for no man is called to engage god to be god , &c. it were an arrogant act to call or invite men to engage god , it is god onely who is to do this , and therefore if any were to be called to this , it were god himself . . it is not true , that to conceive men to be called of god , and not to be in covenant with him is a full contradiction . for though the calling mentioned rom. . . do always bring men into an estate of being in covenant with god , yet not the calling matth. . . & . . for though the calling there have a terminus a quo & ad quem , in the one resembled by calling to work in the vineyard , in the other by calling to a wedding feast ; yet that every one that was called had a new state on which he did enter , is not true : for even those who refused to come were called , matth. . , . and the m●n who came in without a wedding garment , though he sate down , yet was not in a state of covenant , or acceptance , but was thrust out . nor is mr. bls. arguing of any force . men are called into covenant with god , therefore they are in covenant with god : for by the same reason it might be inferred , the same men are called into the fellowship of christ , cor. . . into the kingdome and glory of god , thes. . . therefore some non●elect persons are in the fellowship of christ , in the kingdom and glory of god , which is false . mr. bl. adds mat. . , , . & . . & tim. . . whence he argues thus . a man in the kingdome of heaven is a man that is in covenant with god ; unless he stood in a covenant relation he could have no standing there ; and the comparison were very strangely drawn , if this kingdome thus set out had all that were good , none bad in it . answ. it is granted that good and bad , elect and non-elect are in the visible church , and so in the kingdome of heaven , if by it be meant the visible church : but that a man in the kingdome of heaven is a man that is in covenant with god , that is a man in the visible church is a man that is in covenant wi●h god , so as that god hath made a covenant or promise of evangelical grace to or with him , is denied , nor is ; or ever will be proved by mr. bl. a th . text is heb. . . whence he saith , these must needs be granted to be wicked , yet cannot be denied to be in covenant , being sanctified with the bloud of the covenant . and then sets down three interpretations ; one of the arminians , that say they were sanctified internally and in covenant , but fall from both , which he lets pass ▪ another , that christ is said to be sanic●fied , which seems to him to be very much strained . a third , by external separation for god and dedication to him , which he embraceth . answ. neither do i conceive tha● it is christ who is said to be sanctified by the bloud of the covenant : for though i grant he is said to be sanctified , joh. . . and to sanctifie himself , joh. . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to consecrate or make perfect , heb. . . & . . & . . yet i do not find 〈◊〉 phrase applied to christ any where , that he is said to be sanctified by the bloud of the covenant ; but still applied to those that a●e bought by christ , heb. . , . & . . nor doth it so well suit with the apostles aim of aggravating the s●n o● apostacy from christianity , to mean it of christs being sanctified , as of the apostates being sanctified heretofore by that bloud of the covenant which he now counted common , or unclean : nor do i conceive it can be meant of such a meer external sanctification , whether by baptism , or external profession , as mr. bl. and others conceive . for . the sanctification here is the same with the sanctification meant , ver . , . & . . but that sanctification i● more then such an external sanctification , e●en such as perfects for ever them that are sanctified , v. . and hath with it the writing and remission of sins according to the covenant which is set down v. , , . . no where is such an external sanctification ascribed to the bloud of the covenant ; but to ascribe to it such a meer external sanctification in any sanctified by it , is to d●minish the vertue of it , as if it did no more then the legal sacrifices , contrary to the apostles arguing , heb. . , , . . nor thirdly , had it aggravated the apostates sin to say that he had counted the bloud of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified onely externally , a common thing : for this had shewed no more evil in the disestee● of christs doat● , then if the bloud of the legal sacrifices which did san●●ifie externally , heb. ● . . had been counted unclean . therefore i conceive the sanctifying heb. . . meant of the effectual sanctifying before god , meant heb. . . & . ▪ . & ● . . but yet understand the sanctifying , heb ▪ . not of what was so really , but of what was according to their own opinion , and profession embracing the christian doctrine . even as gal. . . whosoever are justified by the law , that is , whosoever of you do avouch that you are justified by the law. luke . . some are said to be just persons needing no repentance ; that is , in their own opinion and profession , as those luke . . and thus i conceive is that speech also to be understood , pet. . . and hereby the arminian argument from both places for universal redemption , and apostacy of saints is avoided . now these may be denied to have been in covenant , that is , to have been of those to whom god promised gospel grace , sith they were onely sanctified according to their own opinion and profession ▪ yea though the sanctification were meant of being sanctified externally , and this were from the bloud of the covenant , yet it follows not that those who are sanctified thus are in covenant with god , as the meaning of those is who say the elect onely are in covenant , that is , the covenant of evangelical grace is made by god onely to the elect . mr. bl. adds neither can all the noise which mr. t. hath made about pet. . . take off that text , but that it speaks fully to hold up a covenant in this latitude ; and from thence i thus argue . if those phrases , a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people , be applied to christians as to jews in an equal latitude to one ●s to other ; then it must needs follow that there is a covenant in gospel times in like latitude as in the time of the law , including all that accept the terms of the covenant , and visibly appear as t●e people of god , and is not restrained onely to the elect regenerate . the consequence is evident , seeing the terms plainly imply a covenant . here is a covenant people or no where : but these terms , a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people , are applied to christians as well as to jews , to one in as great a latitude as to the other . that which god speaks to israel in the wilderness , that peter speaketh to the church to which he writes ▪ all israelites in moses days , all christians professing , in peters time , had those titles , when onely those that kept covenant were at any time worthy of them , and had the comforts of them . answ. the noise i make is not a meer sound without reason , nor is any one of my reasons made void by mr. bls. answers . to him i reply ▪ . that his speech is inconsiderate when he saith the text speaks fully to hold up a covenant in this latitude , which comprehends non-elect persons , when there is not a word of any covenant , and the terms he onely saith plainly imply a covenant . and though i deny not that the people there mentioned were a covenant people , yet i deny any one of the terms doth imply a covenant ; for a chosen generation doth not imply a covenant , sith both electi●n and generation may be without a covenant ; and the like may be said of the other terms , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar , or purchased people : ●o that in this respect the consequence may be denied . nor is the consequence good for another reason . for it is not true that all israelites in moses days had those titles , which i find exod. ▪ , . yet there onely three of them , and those not said of all the israelites in m●ses days , but a promise of being to god such as these titles import , upon condition they did hearken to his voice , and kept his covenant , which was neither verified of all israelites in moses days , nor in after times . and therefore though those terms were applied to christians as to jews , yet it doth not necessarily follow that there is a covenant in gospel times in like latitude as under the law , sith those titles were not verified of all the jews at any time , but of them and then onely when they were obedient but i deny the minor also of mr. bls. argument , that the terms are applied by peter in an equal latitude to christians as by moses to jews , and assert as in my postscri●t , sect . . pag. . that they are applied onely to those who are members of the invisible church . whereupon mr. bl. speaks thus to me . but i would wish mr. t. to take into more serious consideration . first , whether the first verse of this second chapter be meant onely of invisible members ? whether the apostle pe●swades regene●ate men , and onely regenerate men , to lay aside all malice , and all guile , and hypocrisies , and evil speakings ? answ. to the first question i say affirmatively , that by new born babes , v ▪ ▪ are meant onely members of the invisible ch●rch ; for they are said , ch . . . to be born again , not of corruptible seed , but incorruptible , by the word of god which liveth and abideth for ever ▪ ver. . to be elect according to the fore-knowledge of god the father , begotten again unto a lively hope , ver . . and to the d . that he mentions onely regenerate persons , whom he perswades , though the duty is incumbent on others . ly . whether the d. v. be to be thus limited ; whether the apostle makes doubt in that manner , whether they had tasted that the lord is gracious ? and yet those words in both those verses must needs be understood of the same men , and under the same notion as these , ver . . the apostle brings his speech to no full period till v. . those that must lay aside all malice , guile , &c. of whom he makes question , whether they had tasted that the lord were gracious ; they are this chosen generation , this royal priesthood . answ. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pet. . . is translated [ if ] and may seem to import doubt or uncertainty , but it may be as well translated [ seeing ] as it is thes. . . and so it imports certainty that they had tasted how gracious the lord is , without making question of it . and this reading is more apposite to their condtiion , and more suitable to the exhortation ; for it is more agreable to the nature of a motive to the duty , ver . . to conceive it thus , desire the word to grow by it , sith or seeing you have tasted how gracious the lord is . . but if it were read [ if ] yet in such pass●ges as these [ if ] doth not import doubt , but onely is as a rational particle , noting the connexion between the terms , as joh. . . ephes. . , . and so the sense is here , if you have tasted ( which he supposeth , not questioneth ) then you ought to desire the milk of the word , that you may grow by it . . were it the apostle had doubt whether they had tasted how good the lord is ( which is not to be conceived , considering what he saith of them , c. . v. , . c. . , . &c. ) yet this doubt might be of a more full tast , which every regenerate elect person might not have . . the exhortation to lay aside malice , &c. doth not intimate they were any of them whom he calls new born babes , v. . a chosen generation , an holy nation , v. . unregenerate or non-elect ; for such exhortations are necessary for the most holy saints , in whom are reliques of corruption , and liableness to temptation . ly . saith mr. bl. let him seriously consider the apostles further enlargement of this honour of these christians , which in times past were not a people of god ; words borrowed from hos. . . hos. . . and spoken of the call of the ten revolted tribes : and in deut. . . of the call of the gentiles into a visible church state and profession , and so applied by the apostle , rom. . , , . whence i argue . the call of the ten revolted tribes , and of the gentiles into a visible church way , is not to be meant of the church as it is invisible onely . this mr. t. hath taken into consideration , and answered . however it be in the p●aces to which the allusion is , yet it is certain that here it is meant of such a calling as is from darkness to marvellous light ; taking it , it seems , for granted , that there is no marvellous light in visible churches ; that in the land of zebulon and nephthali where they saw a great light , there were onely invisible members . matth. . , . answ. my answer to this objection was in two things . . that terms appli●d to christians in the new testament with allusion to passages in the old , yet are not always to be applied to christians in the same latitude they were to jews . . that in that place such a calling is meant as is from darkness to his marvellous light by his vertues or powers ; which therefore deserve to be shewed forth , and which they do shew forth that are thus called . and both these i confirmed from rom. . , , . which is manifestly said of them who were called v. . vessels of mercy ; nor is this a denomination a parte praestantiori , for it is expresly said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were the same whom he called vessels of mercy . and the same place of hos. . . is alluded to in rom. . . and pet. . . and can be understood of no other then the elect . and therefore if the places hos. . . hos. . . deut. . . should be understood ( which i grant not ) of any other then the elect or members of the invisible church ; yet pet. . . can be understood of no other , sith no other have such a calling as is there meant , v. . nor any other obtain mercy as there is meant . that which mr. bl. replies after his flirting fashion , goes on this false insinuation , that i took it for granted , that there is no marvellous light in visible churches , which he would refute from matth. . , . and that this was the force of my reason ; whereas my reason did not suppose that at all , but that none are so called from darkness to light in that manner the apostle there describes the calling , but onely the elect , which is true ; though there be marvellous light in visible churches , yea , and in meer visible professors , yet none so called as peter describes pet. . . but onely members of the invisible church . ly . saith mr. bl. as honourable titles as these are frequently given in scripture , as shall be shewen , to visible professors , why should then these be limited to invisible members ? answ. . no titles so expresly noting elect persons as those pet. . . are given any where to mee● visible professors . . if they should be in any pl●ce given to the visible church , yet they are to be restrained to the elect onely ; as when a heap of corn is so called , whic● hath much chaff● or a fie●d of corn , which hath m●ch tares ; the denominatio● is from the better part , and is to be applied ●s verified onely of it . ly . saith mr ▪ bl. mr. t. in his letter made this text to be parallel with those texts , gal. . . tim. . ▪ pet. . . and those texts i have demonstrated to be meant of visible churches , to which mr. t. ●eplies nothing . answ. i do not find that in my letter i made pet. . ● . parallel with those texts , gal. . . tim. . . pet. . . but in my exercit ▪ § . i do alledge to ●rove that onel● bel●evers may be meant by a holy nation , as they are by a family or kindred , ephes. . . the housh●ld of faith , gal. . . the house of god , ●im . . a people , pet. . . now saith mr. bl. these texts i have demonstrated to be meant of visible churches . but he hath not demonstrated them to be meant of meer visi●le churches , or meer visible professors in them , who are not also of the invisible church ; and therefore i thought in my postscript , and think still i need make no further reply . mr. bl. considers my arguments to prove pet. . . meant of the invisible church . . i argue ( saith mr. t. ) from the terms , chosen generation , royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people , that is by christs death , tit. . . which cannot be affirmed of any other then elect and true beleevers ▪ ergo. answ. . such a way of arguing would not pass with mr. t ▪ in his adversary ; as peculiar people is tak●n in one place of scriptur● , so it must be taken in all places ; but in one place it is taken for the elect regenerate if this would ●old , much labour might be spared in finding out the various acceptation of words in sc●ipture . reply . m. bl. it seems hath such a spirit of divination , as to foresee what i would do in a contingent thing . but thi●●olly of his i impute to his satyrical vein ▪ which makes him that he can neither relate nor answer any t●ing of mine candidly . my argument was not drawn onely from the term [ peculiar people ] but also from the terms [ chosen generation , royal priesthood , an holy nation ] which with th● o●her term [ a peculiar people ] or as in the margin of our last translation [ a purchased people ] have been applied to the elect onely by these interpreters , whose words i here set down . beza analys . loci oppositum membram , electorum videlicet summam excelien●tiam describit , &c. piscat analys ▪ hortatur commemoratione duorum maximorum beneficiorum dei , electionis ad vitam aeternam , & vocationis efficacis . electionem indicat his verbis : vos autem estis genus electum , vocationem vero illis regale sacerdotium gens sancta , &c. dicson . vocantur autem regale sacerdotium quia sunt & regni christi & sacerdotii participes , imo per christum sacerdotes & reges constitut● vocantur , genus electum , quia deus eos prae aliis populis sibi adoptaverat . gens sancta , quia eos sibi dicaverat deus in vitae puritatem . populus in acquisitionem , quia deus eos redemerat , & sibi in thesaurum & haeredita●em asciverat , diodati . v. . a royal ] that is to say , a company of priests who are likewise kings , exod. . . priests to godward , to whom believers do yield spiritual worship . v. . and kings over the creatures , over which christ their head hath given them the dominion , which they had lost in adam , and hath made them fellows in the glory of his kingdome , matth. . . cor. . , . revel . . . & . , . & . . & . . & . . a peculiar ] which he hath purchased with a price and made his , by a sove●aign title to hold them for his own people . new annot v. . a chosen ] that is , whom god hath effectually called out of the would , see chap. . . deut. . . royal ] that is kings and priests , see exod. . . revel ▪ ● . . & . . kings , beeause of that power which they have , through christ , over their lust , see ph●l . . . priests , because separated to the service of god , see v. . holy nation ] see exod. . . & deut. . , &c. a peculiar people ] or a purchased people peculiar ] or a people for possession : that is , a people 〈…〉 god hath purchased to be his own . see exod. . . deut. . . & . . & . . psal. . . tit. . . act. . . ephes. . . thes. . . dr. john rainold apolog. ●hes . § . . nam prim● nomen populi sanctorum dan. . . ex daniele satis clarè indicat significari electos , pet. . . gentem sanctam & populum dei peculiarem , exo. . ▪ mal. . . tit. . . eximiè nuncupatos quandoquidem hic est populus cui soli regnum amplissimum in christo , & cum christo , ut ibidem dan. . . promissum est , ita da u●iri testantur sacrae iterae apoc. . . & . . & . . § . . ad designandum populum electum , pet ▪ . . qui deo cedit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in possessionem seu peculium . by which allegations it may be perceived , . that the interpretation i give is the common interpretation of most learned protestants : . that it is proved no by one title onely but by four titles , whereof not one of them can be applied in the sense peter useth them to any but the elect : . that this interpretation and application is confirmed not by one only place of scripture , but by many : . that though i alledged but one place , to wit tit. . . yet being so manifestly paralel , and so clearly pregnant for my purpose it was enough , and such as i would allow the like in any adversary for good proof , though ] do not take it that in all places the sense is proved by the alledging one scripture in the sense conceived , nor do i think it unnecessary to finde ou● the various acceptation of words in scripture . . saith mr. bl these termes and others equivolent to these are given to the israelites deut. . , . deut. . . deut. . . not as a church invisible , but as visible members . their qualifications are often a low , as their appellations by reason of their relation to god raise them high . and setting apart christs death , i would know how they came to this honour . answ. these termes are given in the places cited to israelites , yet that they are given to them as visible members , and not as a church invisible , or as i would say to the church visible of israel , in respect of and with limitation to the elect or members of the invisible church , as a field of corn in respect of the good grain , is not proved . yet if it were the titles pet. . . spoken of christians , cannot be verified of them but in a sense appropriate to the elect . they are no way a royal priesthood , but as priests that offer spiritual sacrifices to god , acceptable to god through jesus christ , v. . which none but the elect and true beleevers can do ; no other way royal but in that they are kings to god , r●ign ov●r sin , satan , &c. through christ , which none but the elect do ; a chosen generation , but by gods election to life eternal ; a holy nation , but by regeneration of the spirit ; a peculiar people , but by christs purchas● ; which can be verified of none but true believers , and elect persons . and to mr. bls. demand i answer , setting apart christs death , i know not how christ●ans should come to this honour which is expressed pet. . . . saith mr. bl. the gift of apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastours , and teachers , were the gift of christ , and purchase of his death . these are for constitution of ●●sible churches , visible members enjoy these priviledges in common with regenerate persons , to which more is already spoken . answ. though i finde apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastours , and teachers , termed ephes. . . the gift of christ ; yet i do not finde them said to be the purchase of christs death as such : nor do i know how they can be truely said to be the purchase christs death , as is meant , pet. . . tit. . . so as that every apostle , &c. should be redeemed from iniquity , be of the people of gods possession , to shew forth the vertues of god , &c. nor do i conceive to what purpose this is brought in here by mr. bl. except he mean that the titles pet. . . are given to the visible church in respect of the ministers , which is so frivolous that i am unwilling to imagine it of him . . saith mr. bl. mr. t. objects from that which is said of them , they are called by god , by his power and vertue into his marvellous light , and v. . that now had obtained mercy which they had not before ; which cannot be affirmed of any but true believ●rs and elect persons . answ. men brought into a visible church-state , are brought into a marvellous light . the seven golden candlesticks rev. . . had a marvellous light in their lamps , and yet in some of those there were onely a few names , that had not defiled their garments ; and this light is a mercy , the fruition of it a great mercy , psal. . , . yea , it is applied by the prophet , hos. ● . . ( whence the apostle gathers it ) unto the mercy enjoyed in a visible church communion , as is not denied by mr. t. himself . reply . where it is that i deny not that hos. . . is applied unto the mercy enjoyed in a visible church communion , i remember not , yet if i did grant it any where , i might understand it of saving mercy , proper to the elect , for that is mercy enjoyed in a visible church communion . but mr. bls. answer is not to the argument as by me urged ; for i did not form it thus , they who have marvellous light , who have obtained a great mercy are elect : but thus ; they who are called by gods power or vertue , which therefore they are to shew forth , out of darkness , into his marvellous light , which in time past were not a people , but are now the people of god : which had not obtained mercy , but now have obtained mercy , are the elect , which i confirmed from rom. . , , . where the same place of hos. . . is alledged and applied onely to the elect . but these things are said of those pet. . . ergo. which argument is confirmed by the words of piscator above cited , and of beza in the place cited , where he saith , simulque ne quis ambigat sit electus necne revocat nos apostolus ad vocationem efficacem , ex qua aeternum illud alioqui occultissimum electionis nostrae decretum certò intelligamu● , idque ex una dei gratuit● eligentis & vocantis misere●ordia . the new annot ▪ praises ] or vertues . that is , that we might glorifie god in our conversations , thereby shewing forth the abundant mercy and great power of god in calling us . isa. . . darkness ] that is ignorance , ch . . . whereby is meant our sinfull and miserable estate by nature , under which men are kept , through ignorance of the gospel , eph. ▪ . & . . col. ▪ . his marvellous ] hereby is meant our estate of grace , through the effectual calling of god by the knowledge of the truth . see cor. . . acts . . & . . called marvellous , because of the great mystery of godliness , which is revealed in the gospel ; and called his , because god revealeth it . dr. john rainold apol. thes· § . neque soluni è tenebris in admirabi●em dei lucem vocati , pet. . . sed & electi , pet. . . nuncupantur , atque genus electum , pet. ▪ . now though meer visible church-members may have marvellous light , and obtain great mercy , yet they cannot be said to be thus called , to be a people of god , and to obtain mercy , as peter there describes . . saith mr. bl. it is said that those persons did beleeve contradistinguished to them that were disobedient and stumbled at the word : but such are onely the elect , ergo. answ. so did all they that made shipwrack of the faith , tim. . . so did simon magus , act. . . so did the hearers compared to the rocky ground , luk. . . and whereas it is said , these believers are contradistinguished to them that were disobedient and stumbled at the word , it fully makes against him ; those disobedient ones , are those that disallow christ , as we see v. . that reject christ upon tender , that persist in judaism or gentilism . all others no● professed jews nor gentiles , are in that place beleevers ( and in all other scriptures respective to visible prerogatives ) which are all visible church-members . reply . it is true some●imes they are termed believers , who are meer visible professors , but here the believers are such as to whom christ is pretious , and are contradistinguished to them that were disobedient and stumbled ●t the word , unto which also they were appointed ( which mr. bl. did ill to leave out ) which shews they were reprobates appointed to perish , and consequently the contradistinguished believers are such as are saved , which cannot be said of them that ma●e shipwrack of the faith , or simon magus . which is confirmed from v. , . which mr. bl. confesseth is understood of the same men , v. . and under the same notion a● these , v. . the apostle brings his speech to no full period till v. . which reasons are confirmed by the note of diodat● on pet. . . it is that precious thing , namely , that precious foundation whereof isaiah speaks , which the text leads to , and is verified onely of the elect , to whom alone christ i● the precious foundation . and the other by the note of beza on v. . preterea particula 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adjuncta & quod mox subjicit , vos autem genu● electum nonne manifestam antithesin ostendit rosorum ad d●cus & ad d●deeus conditorum , sicut credentes & immorigeros ante opposuerat ? nor is what is said , that they disallowed christ , v. . any thing against this ▪ that they that beleeved , v . were true beleevers and elect , any more then it follows all that are meer visible professors are termed beleevers ordained to eternal life , acts . . because they are contradistinguished to those who re●ected the word of god , and judged themselves unworthy of eternal life , v. ▪ . saith mr. bl. they are said to be built as living stones , &c which can agree to none , but elect persons and true beleevers . answ. that is left out in the quotation of this t●xt , which would wholly spoil the argument , and carry it on the other h●nd ; namely those words , to whom comming as unto a living stone . the apostle shews them the way , and points out the condition called for ; which being done , they are then built as living stones : and this implies that it was so with some , but not with others . here is that which is done by some and and neglected by others , and their happiness upon discharge of their duty ; so that if mr. t. his confidences were not far higher then his arguments , he might well sit down , and fairly acknowledge that these titles are giv●n to visible church-members . repl. mr. t. his confidences are strengthened by mr. bls. slight answers to his arguments . his argument was , they who are said to be built as living sto●es on christ the living stone , a spiritual house , a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god by jesus christ , they are true beleevers and elect persons . but such are those v. . who are termed a holy nation , v. . ergo. the major is proved from this , that these things can agree to no other ; the minor from mr. bls. own words cited be●ore , that they are the same , v. . & . the apostle not bringing his speech to a full period till v. . thus dr. john rainold , the●● . § . ap●lies this passage onely to the elect . and mr. john geree , vindic. vind. calls it a misapplication of pet . . to the visible kingdome , which expresly note the spiritual house , ch . . pag. , new annot. on v. . lively stones ] that is , as having life from him . see v. . diodati annot . on pet. . . lively stones ] namely participating of that foresaid life of christ ; and therefore opposite to the dead stones of the material temple . are built up ] or be ye built up . an holy priesthood ] that is to say , a multitude and company of priests . by jesus ] whose perfect righteousness and intercession gaineth all gods grace to beleevers and to their works . now what saith mr. bl to this ? he neither denies major nor minor ; but tels us , that those words , to whom comming as unto a living-stone , if they had been cited would wholly spoil the argument , and carry it on the other hand ; which is very strange to me , who find those words thus intepreted by the new ●nnot . v. . comming ] that is by faith ▪ see joh. . . & . , , . heb. . . by diodati , v. . to whom ] that is to say , being united to the lord jesus , and made his members by a lively faith , that they should prove that the titles pet . . are given to meer visib●e church members , as i● any meer visible church-member did come to christ as a living stone by a lively faith , and were a living stone , built up a spiritual house , &c. but let 's view mr. ils reasons . . the apostle shews them the way , and points out the condition called for ; which being done , they are then built as living stones . but . it is plain that the apostle speaks of them as built up already , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ye are built up , as our translation best reads it , not as of a thing to be done : and this is confirmed in that v . they are said to ●e new born babes , ver . . to have tasted how gracious the lord is , ch . . . to have purified their souls , v. . to be born again . and for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it may be as well read unto whom being comen , as unto whom comming . and so piscal . in anal . loci . argumentorum unum est a pari , videl a vocationis initio , quod significat qu●m ait , eos jam ad dominum accessisse , id est fide eum recepisse , atque it a super eum adificari caepisse , and therefore notes more then the way and condition called for , even the thing already begun . . but had the apostle shewed onely the way and coodition called for , what had this been to prove that the titles , v. . are given to meer visible church members ? sure nothing at all ; for were they comen , or comming , or to come , their comming must have been by faith , and they had not been living stones , built up a spiritual house , nor a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god by jesus christ , without a lively faith and election : and therefore neither mr. ils. concei● being granted , i● it proved that any oth●r then elect and true beleevers are meant pet. . ● . . saith mr. bl. and this implies that it was so with some , who did their duty and were happy , but not with others who neglected . but . how those words , unto whom comming as unto a living stone , implies the neglect of duty , i am yet to learn : if they did note a condition , yet they could imply onely a possibility of neglect , not that some did neglect . . if some did neglect , yet this is nothing to prove that ver . . which is said onely of those that did come and so were happy , the titles are given to meer visible professors . the rest of the chapter is to vindicate himself from what i said , that i ha●dly beleeve any approved writer joyns with him in his interpretation . to which he saith , . it is not like my confidence , who dare affront the body of protestant divines 〈◊〉 tenents that ex professo they have handled against the papists . answ. that i do so is not shewed ; that i dare do so when i have truth on my side , is no vice . if mr. bls. reasons had been good , his singularity had not been culpable . . he would insinuate that in my interpretation i follow escius and gerhard , whom i neither have , nor ever made use of about this text . . that he hath mr. ball , whose book i now have not , and his words cited by mr. bl. seem not to speak any thing of pet. . . . . that a lapide , is wholly for him , to whom he saith i use to be beholding . but i think the words of a lapide cited by him , are not clear for him ; nor do i use to be beholding to a lapide , he being an author i have not , nor do i remember that i have made use of him but in the first part of the review , § . onely about cor. , . . that gerhard mentions others that understand pet. . . of common and general ele●●ion . but whether approved writers or not , he doth not say , so that my words stand good , notwithstanding mr. bls. vindication of himself , his injurious insinuations of me , and his futile arguments and answers about pet. . . mr. bl. ch . . proceeds in proving . that the covenant of grace in gospel times admits christians in profession , in a state of unregeneration , and is not limited in the bounds of it to the elect regenerate ▪ and . he argues from four terms , beleevers , saints , disciples , christans , which he proves out of scripture to be g●ven to persons not elect ( which is not denied ) and they imply a covenant undeniably : and this he proves from my confession , that the titles men ioned by peter pet . . from moses , argue a people in covenant , and therefore i am so shie to confess them to belong to visible professors : but those titles are as high as these , and as undeniably implying a covenant are given to visible professors ; those then even according to me are on this account in covenant with god. answ. mr. bl. doth but mock the reader , and abuse me , by speaking of a confession which he doth not shew , and by assigning a reason of my not confessing the titles , pet. . . not to belong to visible professors , which is never given by me , but imagined by himself . as i said before , so i say again , though i hold those who are ( as pet. . . the the terms are used ) a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , a holy nation , a peculiar people , are in covenant with god , as having gods covenant of evangelical grace made with them ; yet i deny that the terms imply a covenant . and as for the other four terms mr. bl ▪ alledgeth to prove meer visible professors being in covenant , he doth in like manner mock his reader , . not telling what covenant those terms imply , . nor how they imply it , . nor on whose part they imply it , whether on the persons part thus intituled , or on gods , which is the onely thing in question , whether god have made his covynant of grace in gospel times with any non-elect ? which sure those terms imply not , sith they imply either the act ; as beleevers and disciples ; or the state , as saints and christians , of the persons intitled ; not any act of god , covenanting or promising to them gospel grace . . the proof likewise from my confession ( if it were so ) is as vain : for the terms christ , holy angels , onely begotten son of god &c ▪ are as high as those pet. . . yet they do not imply a covenant by my confession ; and therefore i may well deny his inference to be my confession , though i should have yeelded that which he saith i confess to be mine . . mr. bl. argues from some absurdities . . this restriction of the covenant makes an utter confusion between the covenant it self and the conditions of it ; or the covenant it self , and the duties required in it ; between our entrance into covenant , and our observation of it , or walking up in faithfulness to it : for there are that enter and keep covenant with god , psal. . , . psal. . , . and there are those that break covenant , psal. . , . jer. . , , . levit. . ● . isa. . . now according to this opinion , regeneration is our entrance into covenant , and regeneration is our keeping of covenant ; before regeneration we make no covenant , after regeneration we break no covenant , there is no such thing as covenant breaking : all this makes an utter confusion in the covenant . answ. they that hold , that the covenant of grace in gospel times is limited to the elect regenerate , do not think either regeneration our entrance into covenant , or our keeping of covenant , or that before regeneration we make no covenant , or after regeneration we break no covenant , or that there is no such thing as covenant breaking ; all these are mr. bls , fictions , and so is his imputation of making an utter confusion in the covenant . but this they hold , that god enters none into his covenant of evangelical grace but regenerate persons , and that they do all keep covenant ; and that though many before regeneration make covenant with god , and break that covenant they make , and so there is covenant breaking on their part , yet that god keeps the covenant of evangelical grace with those he makes it , and that no reg●nerate person doth so break it as to be ever cast out of gods covenant . and for mr. bls. texts , they are impertinent to prove that after regeneration any do break the covenant of evangelical grace god hath made . for psal. . , . levit. . . isa , . . do speak expresly of breaking the covenant of the law made with the people of israel in mount sinai , which is another covenant then the new or evangelical covenant , heb. . , . but our question is of the covenant of grace in gospel times ▪ and jer. . , , ▪ is ridiculously alledged , sith it speaks not of the covenant evangelical , but of the particular covenant which zedekiah and the princes of judah made to let their hebrew servants go free , which they brake contrary to the law. yet to shew mr. bls. futility in arguing there is no consequence in this reasoning . in mens covenants there are that enter covenant and keep it , and others that in like manner do enter into covenant and not keep it , and so men enter into covenant with god , and some keep it , and some not , therefore they that hold that god makes his covenant of evangelical grace onely with the elect regenerate , do confound the covenant it self and the conditions of it , or the duties required in it , or the entrance into covenant and our observation of it , or walking up in faithfulness to it . for the distinction remains still between all these , though they be eonjoyned in the same persons , as heat and light are distinct though together in flame , and justification and sanctification though conjoyned in the same persons . yea , sith mr. bl. holds some that enter into covenant are stedfast in it , he makes according to his own superficial arguing the same confusion we do , and so falls into the same imagined absurdity . the d . absurdity mr. bl. would fasten on the tenet that the covenant of grace in gospel times is limited to the elect , is ; that then there is no such thing as an hypocrite in the world , as in reference towards god ; for an hypocrite is one that personates the man that he is not , an hypocrite respective to religion and in scripture use of the phrase , is one that pretends for god , and is not gods ; now according to this opinion , that onely regenerate men are in covenant , there is no such thing as an hypocrite , no such sin as hypocrisi ; where the gospel is preached , god makes tender of himself in covenant , and in case none but regenerate persons enter covenant , then onely they take upon them the persons of people in relation to him . answ. if mr. bl. and other paedobaptists had any will to deal ●onestly , as men that sought to clear truth , and not to pervert read●rs , they would , being so often particularly in my postscript § . admonished , distinguish of being in covenant by their own a●t of covenanting , and g●ds act of promising . i never den●ed , that in respect of their own act of ●ovenanting , mere visible professors may b● said to be in covenant with god , but denied that in resp●ct of gods act of promising ( which alone was in question , sith the question being of infants , they cannot be said to be in covenant with god by their ow● act of covenanting , but only by gods act of promising ) any other ●hen elect persons are in covenant with god ▪ now i grant it , that of them to whom the gospel-covenant is made by god , there is none an hypocrite ; but there be hypocrites of those that enter into covenant with god ; that is , of those that promise to be gods and are no● ; to whom , though god tenders himself in covenant , yet he makes no covenant or promise to them of evangelical grace , and therfore notwithstanding this imagined absurdity , yet the position is true , that the covenant of grace in gospel times , as made by god to men , is limited to the elect . the d. absurdity is , then no minister in any church may baptize any person , for none can now discern inf●llibly whether a person be regenerate , and mr. bl. findes christ giving charge to disciple nations , and to baptise them , but findes him not giving commission , that when in the judgement of charity men have cause to conceive them to be disciples , then to baptize them . the apostles staid not for observation of those signes , that might in a well-grounded chari●y perswade that they were regenerate persons . and these that fix it here , ●oo ordinarily make interests the chief ground to carry their charity to a more favourable construction . they that are most like to make a party with them , or drive on interest their way , must be ●udged persons meet for baptism ; of this in a shor● time we have large experience . those that gather up churches , and initiate them by baptism ( the way of the apostles i confess , in case that they would make good that they have to deal with heathens , and therefore a way of more colour then theirs , that set up new churches , and retain the old baptism ) we see what manner of saints are received among them , such that civil persons ( respective to sobriety , chastity , or upright dealing with men ) cannot without stain of their reputation ▪ make their companions . answ. paedobaptists do usually plead , that infants are in the covenant of grace , therefore they are to be baptized . the antecedent can be meant of being in the covenant of grace no otherwise then by gods act of promise , to be the god of a believers seed ; therefore they make the being in covenant by gods act of promise to be a persons god , the rule of baptizing . now i assert , that god hath not promised to be a god to any man or his seed in respect of evangelical grace , but the elect . therefore this absurdity is justly charged on the paedobaptists , that according to their hypotheses , no minister can baptize any infant in fait● . fo● he must ●aptize according to them , onely those infants that are in covenant , and whom he knowes to be in covenant ; but those infants onely are in covenant who are elect , and no minister can know which infant is elect , or in covenant with god , which not , all infants are not , no not of believers , not all abrahams , or isaacs , rom. . , , , , , , , . therefore according to this rule no paedobaptist can baptize any infant in faith , and a judgement of charity mr. m. mr. bl. and others agree and that according to truth , is not it we are to baptize by . so that this absurdity doth unavoidably follow on paedobaptists opinion , which mr. bl. endeavours , but in vain , to fasten on us , who do often disclaim baptizing persons upon their being in covenant with god by his act of promise to be their god , as our rule ; and do continually assert our baptizing persons , because disciples by profession , and by reason of their own covenanting to follow christ ( which mr. bl. confesseth to be according to christs commission , and the apostles way in dealing with heathens ) and therefore the absurdity follows not our opinion , but the paedobaptists , who can baptize no infant by their rule , because they cannot know any infant whom they are to baptize to be in the covenant of grace . as for mr. bls. confession , that our practise is the way of the apostles in case we would make good that we have to deal with heathens , i wonder mr. bl. a learned man , should require us to make good that which of it self is so manifest . for sure we have to deal with heathens or with jews , si●h all the men in the world are either heathens , that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the nations , or jewes : but me thinks he should not say we have to de●l wi●h jews , therefore we have to deal with heathens , and consequently our practise is the way of the apostles , by mr. bls. own confession . to confine the term [ heathens ] onely to them that are not christians in name , is indeed according to the vulgar speech , but besides the scripture use , which mr. bl. me thinks in his writing should have followed . but if mr. bl. mean i● in the vulgar sense , it is easie to make it good that no englishman or his child is a christian till he be made a disciple by preaching the gospel ▪ sith to be a disciple of chr●st and a christian are terms of the same sense , acts. . . yet in b●ptizing by christs commission and the apostles practise , th●re is no difference made between jews and heathens , bo●h are to be baptized upon their believing , mark. . . neither the one nor the other were , or were to be bap●ized by the apostles , without their own personal profession of faith . our way then by mr. bls. own confession is the way of the apostles . his co●fession also is true , that our way is of more colour then theirs that set up new churches , and retain the old baptism , for acknowledging them church members at bap●ism , and not admitting them as church-members though without scandal , is after their own principles to contradict themselves ; and to set up churches in a congregational way , disclaiming the national and parochial , and yet to admit infants to baptism by vertue of circumcision , and abrahams covenant and church-gathering , what is it but to dissert that in practise which they plead in dispute , and to make the frame of the national church jewish , the rule of the christ an church catholick nor have presbyterians any colour for their reformation of baptism or the lords supper , if they will stick to their allegations of taking a rule for baptism from circumcision , or of the lords supper from the passeover ; for , to them all sorts whether ignorant or scandalous were admitted ; and if we must retain whom the jewish church re●ained as visible church-members , there will be no ecclesiastical juridica● excommunicat●on for moral miscarriages , there being 〈◊〉 ●uch among them . as for what mr. bl. chargeth the baptized c●urches with , of the unholin●ss of their members ▪ though i can say litt●e of those near mr. bl. ( if there be an ) yet i am able to say of some and mr. baxter himself hath in print said somewhat of one of the churches , which might refute this calumny , and i think there are many able to testifie of the holy conversation of many of the churches of baptized persons , however mr. baxter imagines they in the end prove wicked . however , we do neither in practise nor opinion maintain such impure churches of ignorant and vicious persons as mr. bl. vindic. faed . ch . . doth , and presbyterians commonly do : nor is it likely , the worst of the baptized churches should be worse then the ordinary sort of the paedobaptists churches of mr. bls. way . chap . mr. bl. answers to some objections against his assertion . . that regenerate persons onely are in new testament times honoured with the name of the people of god , they therefore onely are in covenant ▪ to which he answers , . that there are terms equivalent , beleevers , saints , disciples , and christians , which are given to the unregenerate . to which i reply , that though this argument be not mine , yet it may be said , that the term gods people doth rather imply being in covenant wi●h god then the other terms . but i think the argument not cogent , sith the term [ my people ] doth not in the force of the word necessarily import a covenant of god , and men ma● be conceived his people by election , or purchase , without a covenant , and therefore own it not . ly . saith he , it is not often that that phrase is found in new testament scriptures , with such restriction onely to regenerate persons . he denies not tit. . . is taken for a people separate by grace out of the state of nature : but he is not resolved whether revel . . . serve to purpose , it being in dispute whether to be fulfilled on earth or in heaven ; if on earth , then it sets out a singular glory in the church through ordinances in purity , yet with a mixture of close hypocrites . ●nd for christs personal reign on earth , that he lets go as the opinion of others , of a considerable part of whom he is not very well conceited it seems . answ. his not denying tit. . . to 〈◊〉 pregnant ▪ and being alledged by me as the parallel place to pet. . . confirms m● restriction of the titles there used ●o ●he regenerate . and ●e thin●s the promises , revel . . , . that god would be their god with them , that he would wipe away all tears from their eys , there should be no more death , nor crying , nor labour , should be sufficient to prove the people of god there meant to be onely the regenerate . and me thinks matth. . . & . ▪ luke . , , . & . . & . . acts . . & . . rom. . . & . ▪ & . ▪ cor. . . heb. , ▪ & . . pet. . . revel . . . the term [ my people or gods people ] should be restrained to the elect . ly . saith he , my people , or people of god , is us●d more frequently in the n. t. without restriction to the elect regenerate . he alledgeth three places , cor. . ● . which with him is plain quoted from levit. . . where it is a national promise , to be understood of gods visible abode in ordinances , being tendered to those that were over bu●●e w●●h idols , from which he disswades with this argument , that they were the temple of the lord , separate of god for his worship and servic● , and the promise is no more then is made good to visible churches , revel . . . whereof some members were not regenerate . answ. to dwell in them to walk in them , to be their god , and they to be his people , the temple of the living god , cor . . whom he receives , to whom he is a father , and they his sons and daughters , cannot be meant of any other then the elect : for they onely are the temple of god in which he dwels , who have h●s ●pirit , cor. , . & . . ( a bare separation by outward cal●ing to his worship & service is not enough ) which is the most fo●cible argument to diss●ade fr●m medling with idols . however it be levit. . . here i● is not a national promise , but a promise to particula● persons , separate from the rest of the nation , v. . nor can it be understood of gods visible abode in ordinances , but in persons who were holy ; nor is it made to every visible church , in r●spect of every visible member : nor is the promise of chrst , walking , revel . . . so much as this of gods dwelling in them . the d . he alledgeth is rom. . . which is to be understood no otherwise , where the call of the ten tribes , from hos , ▪ . & . . is applied to the call of the gentiles into a church state and condition . and to the objection from rom. . . he saith , god sets up visible ●rd●nances , and calls to a church state as is there prophesied , that he may there work to himself a people of invisible relation , that thereby he may make them vessels of mercy , having a sore prepared them to glory . answ. the call , rom . . is not as mr. bl seems to conceive , an outwa●d refusable calling into a visible church state by visible ordinances ; but as v. , , , , . calling is effectual calling , which gives being to the called , and is never refused , but proper to t●e elect onel● : which is apparent from v. . where he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whom also , which can have reference to ●one but vessels of mercy mentioned v. ▪ who are also sons of the living god , v. . wh●ch being ●rged by me ●n my postscript . sect . . and not refelled , stands as a firm 〈◊〉 that the people of god there are onely elect ones , or as mr. bl. speaks , a ●eople of invisible relation , vessels of mercy ●so●e prepared to glory . the d he all●dgeth is revel . . . where all professors of faith are included in that exhortation , and so all ministers are to press it ▪ b●t though it wer● the duty of all , yea of them that were n●t professors of f●ith , to qui● babylon ; yet the invitation is a fruit of gods special care by a voice from heaven , and therefore is more ●hen an exhortation to a commoh duty , to wit , a special effectual call , whereby gods people , that is his elect ones ; shall be brought out of babylon as lot out of sodom , and is to be conceived of the elect onely , not of hypocritical professors of faith . so that mr. bl. hath not brought one text out of the new testament , in which [ god 's people ] is applied to meer visible professors ; and yet if these had served his turn , his assertion had been false , as is shewed by the number of places wherein [ god 's people ] is limited to the elect . another objection is out of jer. . , , . which he saith is set up against all new testament light , to prove that none must be of the called of god in●o covenant , for fruition of church priviledges , but those ●hat are r●generate : men in old testament covenan● broke covenant , as is there exprest ; men in th● new covenant shall keep covenanant , and these are onely the elect and regenerate . answ. the text joyned with heb . , , , , . proves that god makes his new covenant with none but those who keep it , who are the elect onely . i prod●ce it not to prove ( as mr. bl. suggests of some ) that none must be of the called of god into covenant , for fruition of church priviledges , but those that are regenerate ; nor to prove ●hat none shall enter covenant and transgress it ▪ that the covenant that now is , is not in any possibility to be transgrest : but to prove , that no●e to whom god makes his new covenant do break it ; which the author to the hebrews doth affirm , in that he differences this from the former covenant , that the former was faulty , or occasioned god to complain that it was broken ; but this is such as that to take away occasion of complaint for breach of it , god makes provision by better promises , that it shall not be broken by those to whom it is made . nor doth it hence follow , as mr. bl. speaks ( this being the characteristical difference ) that as none in new testament times enter covenant , but they keep coven●nt ; so none in old testament times were in covenant , but did transgress it : for we do not say as he perverts the position , that none in new testament times enter covenant but they keep covenant ; we know many have by their profession and baptism entred into covenant , and have no● kept i● : but this we say , that god mak●s with none his new covenant , whether in new testament times , or in old testament times , but they do keep it ; and that this is the characteristi●al difference between the old and new covenant ( not old and new testament times ) which are in the epistle to the romanes and galatians called the law and the promises ; that the one might be and was broken , yet the other is and shall be kept by those to whom it is made , because of gods undertaking to write his laws in their hearts . as for an outward covenant made by god distinct from these and yet in force , it is mr. bls. figment as mr. b. hath proved in his apol. against mr. bl. pag. , , ● , &c. as for the answers , . that the covenant , jer. ● . , , . is not a covenant ●roperly so called , it is refuted before , sect. . as i remember . . that it is not the whole of the covenant . but if it be but a part , it is made onely to the elect , the other part whatever it be being made to none other . . if the new covenant be another covenant , then there must be two distinct gospel covenants . but this is said upon ●he mi●take refuted sect. . that the covenant at mount sinai with the jews was the gospel covenant . i have again viewed pag. , , . of mr. bls. answer to my letter , and do not find any explication of the promises jer. . , , . which may sh●w that the promises there are made to any but the elect ; nor do i find an explication of them , whereby to know how he would have them understood , but of the term [ new covenant ] which he would have understood as if it were meant onely of a clearer explication of the old covenant not well understood before , as joh. . . the new commandment is a clearer explication then was formerly . but neither is true : for the new commandment joh. . . is not so called from a new explication , but a new motive , his own example , as the very words shew : and the new covenant is so called , jer. . , , . not from a clearer explic●tion , bu● better promises , heb. . . and i still profess , that i find not that mr. bls. answer is quit from enervating the argument for effectual grace and perseverance in it , sith he makes the covenant to be to the non-elect ; nor doth he demonstrate , that i cannot bui●d effectual grace and perseverance on that text , making it a distinct covenant from the first , without the o●erthrow of effectual g●ace and perseverance in old testam●nt times . thus much for answer to those three chapters of mr. bl. he that would see more of mr. bls. mistakes about the covenant , may read mr. baxters book afore quoted . sect . xlvii . mr. bls. vindic. f●ed . ch. . concerning the stating the question of the birth-priviledge of the issue of ●elievers , is examined ; and his objections against my stating it removed . mr. bl. ch . . complains , that my confusion hath mudded the way , that my mixture brings a cloud upon all ] he might as well say light is darkness . he saith , i undertake a full comment upon these words of the covenant , gen. . . exercit. pag. . in which the reader will not find this undertaking . he sets down my distinction of abrahams seed exercit pag. . and then saith , here by the way mr. t. mistakes himself . . in casting ishmael out of covenant in that manner , that all the time of his circumcision he had not title to it , to that end that he might make ( were it possible ) the covenant and the seal distinct of themselves , without any relation one to the other , conceiving some to be sealed that were never in covenant , and some to be in covenant that were never sealed . ishmael was in covenant , as was esau at his circumcision , and his circumcision doth w●tness i● , gen. . . answ. i do assert , that ●he covenant gen. ▪ was not made with ishmael , for none of the promi●es there did belong to him , and i have further prov●d it f●o● v. ● , . heb. . , &c. though not to make the covenant and seal distinct of themselve● , without any relation one to another ; yet conceiving some were to be circumcised that were never in covenant , and viceversa . but mr. bl. thinks it proved that ishmael was in covenant , because he was circumcised , for it is said , circumcision shall be a token of the covenant between me and you , gen. . . to which ● said , the covenant was between god and abraham and his seed in their generations , v. . and this seed is declared exc●●sively of ishmael to be ●saac , v. ● . and them that sh●uld be of him , gen. . . rom. . , . though every persons circumcision af●er gods appointment was a token of the covenant god made , yet not of the covenant god made between himself and the circumcised : for the covenant of god with abraham was not to ev●ry circumcis●d stranger , nor to every circumcised child , but between god , and ●braham and ●is seed in their generations which should be called in ●saac , and accordingly the covenant to be kept , v. ● . is said to be between god and abraham and sarah , and abrahams seed . ●areus com . on gen. . . two heads there are of the covenant , god and abraham ; on abrahams part also his seed or posterity are comprehended . but the seed is understood according to the limitations of scripture here , and in other places , gen. . . & ● . . rom. . , . what therefore is here added in their generations ▪ extends not the covenant to ishmaelites , idumaeans , and keturaeans . there is no truth in that which mr. bl. adds , men in covenant were the ●dequate subject of circumcision , and are of baptism . for the females and the males of the seventh day were in coven●nt , yet not subjects of circumcision ; many proselytes and others were the subjects of circumcision , though not in covenant . nor is the reason why either this or that person was to be circumcised , and is now to be baptized his being in covenant , but the command of god concerning them whether they be in covenant with god or no ▪ in that sense in which paedobaptists mean when they say infants are in covenant , because of gods covenant made to them without th●ir own covenant , as hath been often proved . the casting out which i observe apol. . of ishmael doth not sufficiently argue ( as mr. bl. saith ) that ishmael was once in covenant , but that he was once in abrahams house , from whence he was cast out . ly . saith mr. bl. mr. t. does i●l in laying upon ishmael the brand of bastardy , as though he were a son of whoredomes to faithful abraham ; co●cubines in scripture have the name of wives , and their seed was ever accounted legitimate ▪ neither will this serve his p●rpose at all to argue ishmael out of covenant . answ. i ter●ed ishmael abrahams base natural seed , but not to argue him out of covenant , nor b● terming him base did i term him the son of whoredomes , but of an unlawful bed . and though concubines in scripture have the name of wives , and whores are usually called those that are common to more then one , and the sons of concubines counted le●itimate in respect of inheritances , yet be that should say tha● concubines were lawful wives , and their children legitimate before god , must maintain the lawfulness of concubinate and polygamy in the p●triarchs , which our lord christs words g●insay , matth. . , , . m. bl. having recited my words exercit. pag. . concerning the different seed of abraham , and the different manner of gods promise to be god ●o them , he 〈◊〉 after his calumniating manner infers : so that it evidently appears , that he casts out all the natural seed of abraham ( legitimate or base , as he cals them , inheriting or not inheriting ) from any ●itle to that covenant ▪ save in domestick and political benefits . which if true , i should cast ou● isaac , jacob , david , christ jesus himself from any title to ●hat covenant gen. . . save in domestick and political benefits : which is so gross a thing , and so manifest a falshood , that i wonder mr. bl. hath the face to write such a thing of me , and to pervert my words so palpably ; but that i perceive he cares little how he hazards his own credit , so he may impair mine . i say , that god promiseth he will be a god to christ , impartin● in him blessing to all nations of the earth , to the spiritual seed of ●braham in evangelical benefits ; to the natural seed inheriting in domestick and political benefits . how doth it sufficiently appear hence , that i cast out all the natural seed of abraham from any title to th●t covenant , save in domestick and political b●nefits ? doth it follow , that because i assigne ev●ngelical benefits to abrahams spiritua● seed , i deny any of his natural seed to be his spiritual ? to this loud calu●ny , he adjoyns his own gross p●sition in these words . here i shall undertake a position in full opposition , i will establish my covenant , &c. gen. . . in their fullest latitude as they are there spoken ▪ in the largest comprehension ( which according to scripture they can be taken ) are entred with all the natural seed of abraham , by isaac and jacob. which if true , then god breaks his word if he be not a god in spiritual , and all other bl●ssings comprehended under the phrase , will be a god to thee and thy seed ; to judas , ahab , the pharises that said christ ca●● out devils by the help of devils , and so blasphemed the holy ghost , the jews that rejected christ , in effectual calling , justifying , raising to eternal life , which the scripture comprehends under that phrase of being a god to a person , rom. . . gal. . . luk. . , . he saith , the confirmation of this position , is a matter of ease if any . which i acknowledge , if by [ confirmation ] be meant such as mr. bl. in his dictating and flirting fashion useth to ●onfirm things ; not distinctly opening terms , nor the meaning of the texts he brings , nor shewing by any logical deduction the pertinency of them to prove his position . but i shall as soon expe●● a new world in the moon proved as that position , by any true logical deduction out of scripture . he talks of my trifling circumstances in my examen , and foul miscarriage in my stating of the question , even in that whic● was most necessary according to the rule of all logicians , that in ever consideration of things , distinction of ambiguous terms should be used 〈◊〉 afore any definition , proposition , proof , or answer be made , as keche●m . syst . log. l. . sect post . c . out of cicero , boetius , aristotle , galen , &c shews ; and for endeavouring to bring mr. m. to state his ●wn proposition without ambiguity , that i might know what to de●y or gra●t , which mr. bl. terms ineptly my soul miscarriage in my stating of the question , when i stated not a question at all , but onely so●ght to finde out how mr , m. meant his d . concl . in his sermon . but mr. bl. will have his position limited . an● he speaks thus . . we take not in all the natural seed of abraham , as the position plainly expresseth , but the seed by promise , which i understand not of the elect or regenerate seed : but of that seed which g●d by miracle according to promise ) gave to abraham by ●arah , when she was past years of child bearing . answ. . if he take not in all the natural seed of abraham , as comprehended in that promise gen. . . but the seed by promise , then the covenant gen. . . was never made to ishmael , which was signified by circumcision , and consequently though ishmael was circumcised , yet he was never in covenant , and mr. bls position is false , men in covenan● are the adequate subject of circumcision . . if he understand not by [ the children of the promise rom. . . ] the elect or regenerate , then he doth not understand as the apostle doth , who declares v. that the seed v. . who are children of the promise v ▪ . are such as are by gods calling according to gods purpose of election , v. . whom ●e loveth , v. , hath mercy and compassion on , v. . and deserts the contra●●monstrants , as i have often shewed in this and other writings . . if he understand the seed by promise onely of that which god by miracle ( according to promise ) gave to abraham by sarah , when she was past years of child-●earing , then h● asserts the covenant gen. . . in the fullest latitude to be made wholly to isaac , no to jacob , or any other , for no other but isaac individually taken was that seed which god by miracle ( according to promise ) gave to abraham by sarah , when she was past years of child bearing . mr. bl. adds , the natural posterity ( which was the birth by promise ) we onely understand ; and so the apostle explains it ▪ rom. . , . neither , &c. answ. if mr. bl. understand onely gen. . . by [ the seed of abraham ] the natural posterity ( which was the birth by promise ) and that according to mr. bls. description in the words immediately precedent is no other then individual isaac , then he takes in no other then ●saac into the covenant gen. ▪ . as meant by abrahams seed . now the a●ostle is so far from explaining it so , that the contrary is most true ▪ fo● . the apostle expresly saith , that is they which are the children of the flesh , that is begotten by m●er natural generation of abraham which is all one with the natural posterity of ab●aham , thes● are not the children of god , that is those to whom the promise is made gen. . . as the contradistinction to the children of the promise in the latter part of v ▪ . shews ▪ and that by [ children of the flesh ] are me●nt meer natural posterity appears in that v. . which is explained v. . the term [ the seed of abraham ] is put as equipolent to [ children of the flesh , ] which understood any otherwise then thus [ ●he seed or children of abraham by meer n●tural generation ] should exclude isaac also , who was the natural posterity of abraham , and so the seed of abraham , but not by meer natural generation . . if the apostle had explained the seed , gen. . . of the natural posterity onely , which was the birth by promise ( which according to mr. bls. description can be no more then individual isaac ) then he had said rom. . . but the child of the promise is counted for the seed , not as he doth in the plural number , the children of the promise , ( by whom are meant all elect persons , who are by su●ernatural calling counted by god for the seed of the gentiles as well as the jews , as he affirms v. . ) are counted for the seed to whom the promise gen. . . is made . but mr. bl. ●oes on thus . where children of god is taken in the same latitude as adoption , v. . comprizing all the visible body of the jews , as it is also taken , deut. . . answ. ●he right reading ( as i have before proved ) of rom. . should be [ whose was the adoption ] and this is meant indeed of the visible body of israelites in former generations , excluding the pres●nt ; nor do i deny it to be so me●nt , deut. . . but not so as either then or at any time comprizing every particular jew , but as mr. bl. himself rightly explaineth such passages in his answer to my letter pag. . ( though 〈◊〉 applied to rom. . , . ) the denomination being a praestantiori parte , as we call it , a heap of corn , where yet there is a mixture of chaff , and a corn field , where there is a mixture of tares and other weeds ; and as the apostle ( writing to the church of the thessalonians ) saith , knowing brethren your election of god , and yet i suppose you do not believe that each particular man was a vessel of glory . but i go after mr. bl. onely , saith he , those that are born by promise are included , and so all the sons of ishmael and keturah , though the●r parents were once in covenant , are by gods special command shut ou● . answ . there are no more born by promise according to mr. bls. description but isaac , and so no more according to him included ; not jacob , mu●h less all the visible body of the jews . . if those that are born by promise onely are included , then ishmael , and the sons of keturah who were not born by pro●ise , are not in●luded in the covenant gen. . . then they were never in cov●nant , for none were never in that covenant , who were not included in the promise . . the scripture doth not mention out●shmael ●shmael out of the covenant he was once in , but to 〈◊〉 out of abrahams hous● . nor do i see in what sense abraham cou●d be said to cast him out of covenant . surely not by revoking 〈◊〉 promise , that were little less then blasphemy , to ascribe to abraham the evacuating of gods word : not by uncircumcising him for 〈◊〉 was any such thing done , though abraham obeyed god , nor perhaps could be done . what other way he might shut him out of ●ovenant i do not understand . . if ishmael were once in the coven●nt , as it comprehends the promise of evangelical grace , then ●od promised to be his god in respect of regeneration justification , adoption , sanctification and raising up to eternal li●e , and he was in that esta●e , and if h● were shut out again , ●hen a man may be in the covenant of evangelical grace and shut out again , which is contrary to the very end of the new c●venant , as it is expressed heb. . , , , , . and infers falling away from gospel grace . mr. bl. proceeds thus . neither are all these included ; for as god cast off ishmael and his seed , so also esau and his posterity ; therefore the apostle having brought the former distinction of seeds , rests not there but adds v. , , , . and ther●fore the denomination of the seed is in jacob , sirnamed israel ; therefore when the head , or if you will , root of the covenant is mentioned ; usually in scripture it is not barely abraham , but abraham and isaac , to exclude all abrahams seed of any other line ; not barely abraham and isaac , but abraham , isaac , and jacob. the natural seed of jacob then ( not according to ours , but gods own limits ) is included in that covenant in the full latitude and extent of it . answ. . the terms head or root of the covenant , are not scripture expressions . i finde gal. . . that to abraham and his seed were the promises made , and rom. . . if the root be holy so are the branches , v. . thou bearest not the root , ●ut the root thee ; but this root is i conceive , no other then abraham , who is ●ot termed either head or root of the covenant singly or jointly , but of the olive or branches in respect of their propagation from him partly as a natural father , and a spiritual father in respect of is●aelite believers , an● partly as a spiritual father onely in respect of gentile believers . but if any be to be termed the head and root of the covenant , i think it is most fit to give that title to christ , the surety and mediatour , heb. . . & . . to whom the promises were made , gal. . , . . when god is stiled the god of abraham , i●saac , and jacob , that it is to exclude all abrahams seed of any other line , and to say that god cast off esau and his posterity from the covenant , is more then the apostle saith , or is according to truth . for the apostle doth onely say , that therefore the oracle was delivered concerning esau and jacob , and the words of the prophet concerning jacob and esau are alledged , that he might shew that god confined not his covenant to abrahams natural posterity , nor included them all ; not to shew that he cast off or excluded all abrahams seed of any other line then ●saac and jacob from the covenant . for then jo● , jethro , and all other proselytes of abrahams seed by keturah , of esau●s posterity had been excluded from the covenant of grace in christ , which is contrary to scripture ; and in like sort , all the gentile from ishmael , keturah , esau , ●ad been excluded from being called christian believers . for none are called by god who are excluded out of the covenant of grace . . that the natural seed of jacob is included in that covenant . gen. . . in the full latitude and ex●ent of it , as it comprehends a promise of evangelical grace , is so far from being the apostles determination , tha● he resolves in the contrary in those words rom. . . all are not israel , that are of israel . secondly , saith mr. bl. we d● not say that this covenant was entred with abraham as a n●tural father , nor his seed comprehended as natural children ; but a● a p●ofessour of the faith ●ccepting the conant , taking god for his god he accepts it for himself , and f●r his seed , his natural p●sterity . and all that profess the faith hold in the like ten●re , are in covenant , and have the covenant ; not vested in their own persons , but enlarged to their posterity . answ. i do not remember that i did any where say that paedobaptists said , that covenant gen. . . w● entred with abraham as a natural ●ather , but the authour of the little treatise intituled infants baptism proved lawful by scripture , asserted the covenant was made with abraham as a believer ; to which i replied ▪ that as it was evangelical it was not made with abraham simply as a believer , for then it had been made to every believer as to abraham , but with abraham as the father of believers , and with his seed as believers as he was . but that ever any paedo●aptist did afore mr. bl ▪ assert that the covenant gen. . . as it was a covenant of evangelical grace , was entred by god with him as a professour of the faith , accepting the covenant taking god for his god , accepting it for himself and for his seed , his natural posterity , i do not reme●ber . if they should , yet i take it to be false , and without likelihood of truth . for if the covenant of evangelical grace were made with abraham under that formal consideration , then god had promised evangelical grace , justication , adoption , to him as a professour of faith onely , so that if it were supposed he had been an hopocrite , yet he should have been justified , adopted in that he was a professour of faith , or else it is to be conceived justification and adoption were not to abraham by this covenant , contrary to gal. . , , . nor hath it any likelihood of truth , that god would single out so exemplary a believer as abraham was , rom. . , . and enter so solemn a covenant with him barely as a professour of faith , which was competent to an hypocrite . nor do i well know in what sense god entred the covenant with him as ● professour of the faith accepting the covenant for himself and his s●ed . for gods entring the covenant is no other then his making of it : but god did not make it on this condition that abraham should accept it f●r him and his seed , but as knowing abrahams integrity , b● way of testification of his love and grace to him being so eminent and tried a believer afore this c●venant was made with him . nor is it true that all that profess the faith hold in the like tenure , are in covenant , and have the coven●nt ; not vested in their own persons , but enlarged to their posterity , there being none in the covenant gen. . . but abraham and his seed , of whom no meer professour of faith , much le●s his seed , except elect or true believer is either . nor was the covenant ever made to abrahams or israels mere natural posterity as it is evangelical ; much less enlarged to the posterity natural of every professour of faith . thirdly , saith mr. bl. we entitle the seed o● abraham , as before , to spiritual mercies ( and so the seed of all that hold in the tenure of abraham ) to saving grace , and justification to life eternal ; not by an absolute conveyance infallibly to inherit ( we know though israel be as the sand of the sea , yet a remnant onely shall be saved , rom. . . ) but upon gods terms , and conditions in the gospel of god , held out of god to his pe●ple ; salvation is made over by vertue of covenant , to all thus in covenant in that sense as christ speaks joh. . . salvation is of the jews . in that sense as christ us●th it of zacheus family ; this day is salvation come to this house , luk. . . in that sense as the apostle to the hebrews speaks of it , where he sets out the danger of neglecting so great salvation , heb. . . in that sense ( as i conceive ) the apostle speaks of it , where he saith , that upon the call of the jews all israel shall be saved , rom. . . answ. that by [ salvation luk. . . heb. . . rom. . . ] is not meant outward priviledges , in which salvation upon gods terms may be obtained , hath been shewed before sect. . and though i grant that salvation is said to be of the jews , in that from them was the doctrine of salvation , yet i see no necessity to expound the term [ salvation ] metonymically , as if by [ salvation ] were meant barely the doctrine of salvation , but the sense may be truely conceived thus , salvation , remission of sins , justification , adoption , eternal life , is of the jews , as instruments by preaching the gospel of converting , and so saving men . but that god when he promised gen. . . i will be thy god and the god of thy seed ( as this promise is evangelical ) meant this , all the professors of faith and their seed shall enjoy those priviledges , in which salvation upon gods terms may be obtained , is proved false . . in that the writers of the new testament never so explain it , but where the promise is mentioned as evangelical , they declare it imports a further thing proper to the elect and true believers . that they never by abrahams seed as evangelically understood , mean any other then elect persons and true believers : both which are proved largely before sect. . . that in this sense the promise were not made good , for god doth not make good to every professour of faith that he shall have ●hose priviledges , as to be baptized , be in church-communion , have the the lords supper , have a pastour to preach the gospel , much less to every one of his natural seed , as frequent experience shews . . by this exposition nothing is assured to the infant of a believer , or to a professour of faith , which is not also to an unbelievers child , yea to an unbeliever , who as well as they have title to saving grace , and justification to eternal life , upon termes and conditions in the gospel of god , held out of god to his people . mr. bl. adds , and this [ that professors of faith or believers upon their call shall enjoy those priviledges , in which salvation upon gods terms may be obtained ] is all that c●n by any means be squeezed out of their words , that say , the covenant of grace was made of god , with abraham and hi● natural seed , or with believers and their seed . it is even irksome to read the large business that mr. t. makes of it , to finde out mr. ms. meaning , about the covenant of god made with abraham and his se●d ; and both mr. m. and my self must per force confess that we mean ●t of a covenant , infallibly absolutely to confer grace , and cons●quently salvation . answ. . that more may be squeezed out , is proved in my exam. part . sect . . in this par● of the review sect . . , &c. and if no more be m●ant by them , these things w●ll follow . . that they mean by the covenant of grace , a covenant of outward priviledges , of viable c●urch-membership . baptism , the lords supper , to every beleever by prof●ssion , though a gentile , and his natural seed , under the pretence of the covenant , gen. . . which pretended outward covenant of outward priviledges is a meer counterfeit , neither gen , . . nor any where else to be found in the holy scripture . . they do most grosly abuse the text , gen. . . for proving such a covenant , quite besides the expositions given of it throughout the new testament , as is proved in this part of the revew , sect . . and quite besides the expositions even of the reformed divines , though paedobaptists , in their commentaries on the n. t. and writings against arminians . . they do mock readers most palpably ▪ . in telling them the covenant of grace cen●ains the promise of remission of sins , &c. is for substance the same in all ages , and say it belongs to all the infants of beleevers , that they are in it , that is that covenant of grace , they are confederate with parents , as the words of the directory , mr , m. and others cited by me , exam part . sect . shew ; and yet deny this covenant of saving grace is made to them all , but upon such conditions as upon which it is made to unbeleevers children , yea , to every man in the world . . in that they when they make the sacraments to be seals of the covenant of grace , and attempt to prove it from rom. . . which mentions onely a seal of the righteousness of faith ▪ they make them seals of the righteousne●s of faith , and say infants are in the covenant , and the seal must follow the covenant , and yet nevertheless deny all the infants they baptize by vertue of being in the covenant ( of which baptism is a seal ) to be in that covenant of which baptism is a seal ; but say they are in a meer imaginary covenant , which they call an outward covenant , of which baptism is no seal , but rather according to their conceits , the thing it self covenanted or promised . . they mock parents , by telling them in wr●tings and sermons , that they are to be comforted concerning their children , that if they be beleevers their children are saved by vertue of the promise gen. . . that they are bound to beleeve it ; and yet when they are pressed with the apostles determination . rom. . , . and other arguments , they deny that they understand it of the ●ovenant of saving grace , which alone can infer salvation ) infallibly and absolutely to confer grace ; but either they make it onely conditional if they repent and beleeve , which no man is sure any infant doth ; or they say in the judgement of charity ( which is fallible , and is no object of faith ) we are to take them to be in covenant and to b● saved , or else they say ( which is now the common shif● ) they are in the outward covenant , which is a figment , and of which they cannot say but that a person may be in it and not saved . . that sith it is commonly conceived by readers and hearers that they mean that which mr. m. mr g. mr. bl. &c. do disclaim , paedobaptists are bound to ●each the people at their baby sprinklings , and at other ti●es when they avouch the infants of beleevers and of meer visible professors of faith to be in the covenant of grace , gen● . and thereupon derive their title to baptism that they mean but as mr. m. mr. bl. say , that they may acquit themselves from deceiving the people , and being judged impostors . . it is no marvel that the d. section of the d. part of my examen is irksome to mr. bl. to read , sith it doth so fully lay open the fallacy of paedobap●ists in their speeches concerning the ●nfants of beleevers being in covenant . not did i set down the position i conceived mr. ms. d .. concl . any otherwise then in fair candid way , giving my reasons thereof ; and not as mr. bl. faith , per force imposing any thing on him . and for mr. m. it is shewed above § . . that mr. m. in his defence hath rather hidd●n then explained the m●aning of his d conclusion . as for m. bl. [ did acknowledge , exam. p. . that he spake most warily , and therefore was far from obtruding upon him . but yet mr. bl. for want of other exceptions against me , chargeth me with wronging him in a passag● in my apology , pag. . where i say , how doth this stand with tha● which he asserts , ch . . sect . . of his answer to my letter , pag. . that infants of beleevers have salvation , if they die in their infancy , by ver●ue of the covenant ? these words , he saith , were none of his , and that i could not but know it , when i published them ; and that the meaning was not his , i knew also , seeing he ex●ressed it in these words , that they are in the ordinary way of gods dispensation saveable . ●o w●ich i reply . the assertio● i co●ceived his , i gathered from those words in the place cited by me , that scrirture therefore , cor. . in this controversie is still brought in by our divines , as evidently holding out a covenant holiness , and consequently salvation of infants . and truly i must confess ▪ i thought his words so plain , that i never dream't he would have denied it to be his meaning , conceiving he alledged the protestant divines as con●onant to his own opinion ; and that if salvation of infants be inferred consequently from covenant holiness ( which mr. bl. asserts from cor. . . ) then it is mr. bls. meaning , that infants of beleevers have salvation in their infancy , if they die in their infancy , by vertue of the covenant , and that he asserts a certainty of salvation from the covenant . that which he saith . i knew that the meaning i impute to him was not his because of the words he sets down , and therefore a calumny tending to make a brother odious , is i am sure false , and a calumny which i never expect to have fairly answered by him , nor almost any thing else he is charged with by me to have dealt fouly in his opposing ●e about this point . the words he mentions were in the period before th●s . this papists deny , as not knowing how to avoid the salvation of infants , but that they are in the ordinary way of gods dispensation saveable , when they are thus admitted within the verge of gods promise . which being spoken of the papists , i did not conceive so likely to explain the speech of the period following , as that other a little before , protestants affirm that infants without actual admission to baptism are saved the main argument wherewith protestants assert it , is the covenant ▪ in which with the parents , infants are included : and i conceived [ are saved ] is as much as are actually saved . nor am i yet so well indoctrinated by mr. bl. as not to think it had been non-sense ( which i would not impute to mr. bl. ) to expound salvation of infants , by saveab●eness in the ordinary way of gods dispensation . nor did i imagine that by m● . bl. muc● less by protestant divines , a saveableness onely in gods ordinary way of dispensation , should be made the consequent of covenant holiness , but a certainty of salvation . for the covenant or prumise do●h not assure onely ● possibility , but a certainty ; yea , possibilities are not the things which men ever assure , they are antecedent to covenants and promises , but certain events ; an● to imagine gods covenant to assure onely a possibility , a saveableness , and not a certainty of salvation , is to make god to promis● nothing , b●t what is without such a covenant , which is to make it a blank . and if the covenant holiness infer onely a conditional salvation , it infers no more salvation then damnation : yea , if infants have no more by their covenant holiness then a saveableness in gods ordinary way of dispensation , then they have onely a saveableness if they be baptized , hear th● gospel preached , beleeve it , profess it ( which is the ordinary way whereby god dispenseth salvation . ) but if this were mr. bls. meaning , he ha● made baptism &c. a necessary condition of their salvation , and so he had tied their salvation with the papists to baptism , or rather been more rigid then they , durior pater infantum augustino , requiring the hearing the word , actual faith , and profession of them to salvation . so that i hope by this time mr. bl. will forgive me this wrong , in setting down his opinion better then he meant it , and that he will let fa●l hi● suit against me for this thing : and if so , i will forgive him for his next insinuation of my setting up a man of straw and then beating it down ( though it be indeed the common saying of paedobap●ists , who usually say , the covenant of grace sealed by baptism , ( which is that of justification ) is made to beleevers and their seed , the promise is to them and their children , a●●s . . which is meant by them of remission of sins ) and for his frivolous charge of my using the arguments of jesuits , and making use of protestants names , when i do bring not onely the names , but the very words and arguments of the most approved protestant writers in great number , and produce one papist , estius alone , no jesuite , but , though a papist , of the better sort ; and do , and may safely protest , that some of those mr. bl. chargeth me with i did not read ; and for one , what i read in him came not into my mind when i wrote that examen of mr. ms. sermon . so that what mr. bl. doth so often insinuate , as tending to make me suspected as if my arguments against infant baptism were borrowed from papists even then when i avouch protestants , is a most unworthy calumny , though i still say i am glad when i find truth , that i meet with i● in any authors , whether protestants or papists , and think it not the worse for their owning it . mr. bl a●ter his false accusations of me , and limitations of his own tenet , speaks thus . to draw all up towards a conclusion . all that is necessaril● included in gods entrance of covenant with a people , engaging to be their god , and taking them for his people ; is here by this grand charter of heaven made over to abraham , and his natural issue by ●saac and jacob. all their posteri●y are branches of this root by nature simply considered , and they are holy branches by vertue of this covenant , which necessarily implies priviledges of ordinances , the fruition of gods oracles , which are his covenant draughts ▪ without which no people are in covenant , but all are strangers : and this priviledge of ordinances implies also all priviledges , leading to , and accompanying salvation , and salvation it se●f upon gods terms in his word revealed . and so before the disputation , the reader hath my supposition . answ. the reader hath a supposition indeed , but such a one , as if he examine it , he will be more to seek concerning mr. bls. mind , then if he had omitted it . but i sh●ll as fairly as the ambiguity of his expr●ssions will permit , search out his meaning . there are no fewer then nine propositions thrust together in these words of his , that all that is necessarily included in gods entrance of covenant with a people , engaging to be their god , and taking them for his people ; is here by this grand charter of heaven made over to abraham , and his natural issue by isaac and jacob. in which , . he asserts the promise gen . . to be the grand charter of heaven : and i grant it to be so in the sense in which the apostle means , it , gal. . , , rom. . . and elsewhere , to wit ▪ as it is a promise of regeneration , justification , eternal life , which i call evangelical grace . . he speaks of gods entrance of covenant with a people , engaging to be their god , and taking them for his people , and of things necessarily encluded in this entrance of ●ovenant . but there are many ambiguities in these expr●ssions the term entrance into covenant is ambiguous : he may be said to enter into covenant who offers it , or who makes and concludes it . the term people of god is ambiguous ; it may be meant either of his people by special right , as the ten tribes were when they fell off to idolatry ; or his people by outward profession onely , or his people by effectual saving calling . the terms engaging to be their god , and taking them for his people , may be understood in respect of temporary protection , advancement , rule , &c. or righteousness and eternal life . the word people may note either singular persons , or the collective body of a nation which may not include every sing●lar person . he supposeth things necessarily included in gods entrance of covenant with a people : but i am not yet convinced that any things are necessarily included in gods entrance of covenant with a people engaging to be the●r god , and taking them f●r his people ; but that all things therein included are arbitrary , or of his free-will . and if there be any things necessarily included , sure they are not priviledges of ordinances , i mean initial and after seals , visible church-membership of infants ; for god entred into covenant wit● abraham long b●fore , and never promised those things ; so he did with noah ; and with adam . and that which agreeably to the scripture was promised gen . . was to the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob , peculiar protection , provision , rule , sam. . . by giving laws to them , appointing them judges , directing t●em by oracles in war and peace , &c. to the spiritual seed of abraham the promise was of christ , righteousness , adoption , and the inheritance of eternal life ; not those petty things which mr bl. doth frivolously imagine to have been contained in that grand charter of heaven , as he calls it , which is the thing that mr. bl. would fain squeeze out of that text , though there be not the least colour in all the holy scripture for it . his second proposition is , that all isaac's and jacobs posterity are branches of this root by nature simply considered ; which if he understand of abraham , and isaac , and jacob , as a natural root , propagating them by natural generation , i grant it ; if he mean it of a covenant root , as he calls it , as deriving from them evangelical grace by the covenant gen. . . i deny it . his d. is , and they are holy branches by vertue of this covenant ; which if he mean they were holy in respect of gods special rule , setting up his tabernacle among them and such like prerogatives as are mentioned rom. . , . i grant it : but if he mean it of holiness according to election of grace , as rom. . . is meant , it is not true . his th . is , that this covenant necessarily implies priviledge of ordinances , the fruition of gods oracles : which if he mean in this sens● , that gods worship should be among them , that the laws of god , and his word should be to the collective body of israel , i grant it ; but if he mean it of visible church-membership of infants , initial and after seals , which is the thing he aims at , ) i deny it . the th . that priviledge of ordinances , and fruition of gods oracles , are gods covenant draughts , hath the same answer . the th . and th . that without this priviledges of ordinances and fruition of gods oracles , no people are in covenant , but all are strangers ; if it be meant of the covenant of evangelical grace , and of particular persons , the propositions are manifestly false ; for then no infants dying afore they have an initial seal , hear the word , &c. should be in covenant : if it be meant of the priviledges of ordinances , and fruition of gods ordinances in any sort , i grant , that if there be no worship of god among them , no fruition of gods word written or unwritten , no people of ripe age , whether families , or nations , or single persons , can be said to be in covenant , but are strangers from it ; but if they be understood of such peculiar o●dinances and oracles as the jews had , rom. . , . i deny it ; for adam , seth , enoch , noah , &c. were in covenant with god without them . his th . and this priviledge of ordinances implies also all priviledges leading to , and accompanying salvation ; if meant of in-being in christ , having his spirit to dwell in them , which are the chief priviledges leading to , and accompanying salvation , and of all that have the priviledge of ordinances . i deny it ; unless he mean it as he doth the th . proposition , that this priviledge of ordinances implies salvation it self upon gods terms in his word revealed , which are repentance and faith in christ , and then both propositions are granted , the th . and the th ▪ that the priviledge of ordinances doth imply both in-being in christ , and his spirits in dwelling , and salvation it self to them that repent and believe in christ. which is true also of them that have not this priviledge of ordinances , as cornelius , and many more . and thus mr. bl. also hath my exposition and answer concerning his position and supposition : let 's now see what he proves . sect . xlviii . the th . and th . chapters of mr. bls. vind. faed . are examined , and his arguments concluding the natural issue of believers to be taken into covenant , are answered . he intitles thus ch . . arguments concluding the natural issue of abraham , isaac , and jacob to be taken into covenant ; which he may prove and not oppse me , who grant , that god promiset● gen. . ▪ to be a god to the natural seed of abraham , inheriting in domestick and political benefits : from whence he falsly infers ▪ that i cast out all the natural seed of abraham from any title to that covenant , save in domes●ick and political benefits ; and then undertakes this position in full opposition , that covenant ▪ in those words exprest gen. . . in their fullest latitude , as they are spoken in the largest comprehension ( which according to scripture they can be taken , ) are entred with all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob. so that if to be a god , gen. . . to abraham and his seed , comprehend evangelical benefits of regeneration , justification , eternal life , his position is , that the covenant is entred in respect of these benefits , with all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob ; which can be meant no otherwise then thus , god had promised , gen. . . these benefits to th●m all : for the covenant could be no otherwise entred with them , isaac and jacob being not then begotten , nor in being , and therefore the entry into covenant could not be mutual . here then the question between us is not , whether the natural issue of abraham by isaac and jacob were taken into covenant ? gen. . . for i grant that god there promised to be a god to them by domestick and political benefits , to wit , by setting up his worship more peculiarly in that nation , by raising up the messiah out of them , by giving them peculiar laws himself , raising up judges and governours for them , vouchsafing them peculiar protection which he vouchsafed not to other p●ople , directing them by his oracle when they enquired of him , &c. and these benefits he promised to them all conditionally if they adhered to god : but the question between us is ; whether gen. . . god have promised to all the natural issue of abraham by isaac and jacob , the evangelical benefits of regeneration , justification , and eternal life , supposed to be meant in the words , to be a god to thy seed ? this i deny , and mr. bl ▪ should prove , if he dispute in opposition to me . however let 's view what he writes . my first argument ( saith he ) is taken from the addition annexed to this covenant in the words immediately following v. . that seed of abraham ▪ that had possession of the land of canaan through the gift and by vertue of the promise of god , is the seed here taken into covenant to have the lord for their god. this is so plain , that nothing can be plainer to any that read the words ; but the natural seed of abraham , all the seed of jacob in their several tribes ( according as god set them their bounds ) inherited the land of canaan , which is called the land of their inheritance , and not onely the spiritual seed regenerate , they that onely sojourned in canaan , heb. . . and were never possessed of it , had title to it : it was theirs in reversion , though they never came into actual possession . answ. . the major is not true , if the subject of the proposition be understood exclusively , or universally , and the phrase in the predicate [ to have the lord for their god ] be meant in respect of the evangelical benefits of regeneration , justification , and eternal life . it is not true , that god hath covenanted to be a god in respect of these benefits to all , or onely to that seed of abraham that had possession of the land of canaan through the gift , and by vertue of the promise of god : nor doth the text at all make it plain . for though it prove that the seed of abraham meant in the fore-part of gen. . v. . were also meant v. . yet it doth not prove that all , or they onely that had the promise of canaan , had the promise of being a god to them in gospel grace . the minor is granted , [ all ] being meant , as they speak in logick , distributively in genera singulorum , that is , of any sorts of them , but not in singulos generum ; and with limitation to certain times fore-appointed of god , not in all times . all sorts inherited , but some were not to inherit till a certain time , and for a certain time ; a bastard , mamzer , deut. . . was not to enter into the congregation of the lord , and so not to inherit regularly till the tenth generrtion . but were mr. bls. conclusion granted , it proves not what i deny , that to all , and every israelite god promised evangelical benefits , gen. . . or visible church membership and initial seal at all to any in that promise , gen. . . my next argument , saith he , is drawn from the seal that is annexed in the words immediately following this additional promise , v. , , . they that had the sign and seal of the covenant , that had it by divine appointment they were a people in covenant . this is so plain , that nothing can be more plain ; god doth not enter covenant with one and give the sign and seal to another : but all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob had the seal , viz all the males , those that were in a c●pacity of it ; it was not limited to the spiritual seed . there had been no place for that distinction , of circumcision in the flesh , and circumcision of the heart ; if none must be circumcised in the flesh , but those that are circumcised in heart . answ. . waving my exception against the title of seal of the covenant , not given to circumcision , or any other rite in the scripture , and inconvenient as is before proved , and putting in [ circumcision ] instead of it ; i deny the major , if understood universally : nor is the major plainly true , but plainly false , it being manifest in that very covenant , that god entred it not with ishmael and others whom he appointed to be circumcised . nor is any thing more plain then the contrary to what mr. bl. asserts . for god did enter into covenant with th● natural seed female inheriting of abraham by isaac and jacob , according to mr. bl. himself ; the daughters of zelophehad were in covenant , and yet he did give the sign of the covenan● to others , and not to them . nor is the minor true ; for the males of seven days old were in a capacity of circumcision , yet they had it not . i grant that circumcision was not limited to the spiritual seed ▪ yet conceive mr. bls. proof of no force : for though it had been so limited , yet there had been place for the distinction of circumcision in the flesh , and of the heart , sith things may be distinguished ▪ which are not separate . but were the conclusion granted , it fails as the former in proving what i deny . my d. argument , saith he , is drawn from the comment that god himself makes of th●s covenant , holding it e●ery where out in this way of tenure to abraham and his natural issue , as before , exod. . . deut . . all that whole people he owned as his , all of them being abrahams natural issue ; yet all of them were not spiritual . exod. . . deut. . , . amos . , . is very full to our purpose . every one that descended from jacob , the whole of the family that came out of aegypt , were a select people to god in covenant ; he was according to the terms of that covenant , their god. there is not a place where god calls them by the name of his people ( which are almost endless ) but there we have this confirmed , t●at that people were the lords by vertue of this grant made to abraham and his seed . answ. this last speech might be granted , and what else mr. bl. infers from the text ; yet he attains not his end , unless he prove that by vertue of that covenant all the israelits by natural discent we●e god● regenerate , j●stified people ; for the thing he should prove against me , is , that gen. . . god promiseth to be a god in respect of gospel benefits to all abrahams natural issue by isaac and jacob. yet i conceive there are places wherein the israeli●es were termed gods by vertue of the covenant of the law ezek. . & . . &c. without mentioning the covenant gen. . which the apostle conceives differently of , gal. . , . and the spee●hes exod. . . deut. . . exod. . . deut. . , . though spoken of the body of israel , yet may and are to be understood , at least in some senses of them , not of every individual : surely he was not god evangelically to those that believed not , nor were they his people , nor legally , so as to afford them that protection , and tem●oral blessings which are promised in the la● , deut. . &c. to ahab , achan , korah , and such like . but in the evangelical sense the denomination is from the better part , the people he fore knew , as the apostle himself expounds it , rom. . , . and in respect of political blessings according to the covenant of the law , to the obedient to the law , as of long life to dutifull children ▪ safety ▪ whi●e they kept the solemn feasts . exod. . . & . . nor doth amos . , . which he saith , is full to his purpose , say , that god was a god to that whole family which he brought out of aegypt by vertue of the covenant , gen. . . much less to every one of them evangelically , nor doth he say he had known them ●ll evangelically , but had known them onely , that is , had distinguished them from other people by giving them his laws , &c. which makes nothing to prove according to gen. . . god took every descendent from jacob into covenant in respect of gospel benefi●s . in the th place , saith he , i argue from the practise of the people of god , making this covenant of god entred with abraham and his seed , a plea to obtain mercy from god for all israel , the worst of isra●l , in their lowest state and condition , deut. . , . if this divinity had been th●n known , moses might have been sent away with this answer ; that he spake for dogs , and not for children ; not for israel but for aliens and strangers to the common-wealth of israel . but as this an● the like requests of the people of god were made in faith , so they prevailed with god ; moses there urgeth , they are thy people and thine ineritance , v. . as doth the church , isa. . . and moses petition takes , as the history shews , exod. . . yea , when god vouchsafes mercy to his people thus in covenant , levit. . . it is upon this account of the covenant . and appearing for the deliverance of israel out of their hard and pressing bondage , he saith to mose● , exod. . . and that to stay up his faith in confidence of deliverance . ●nsw . tha● which mr. bl. should prove , is , that covenant exprest in those words gen. . . in their fullest latitude as they are spoken , in the largest comprehension ( which according to scripture they can be taken ) are entred with all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob. and in his answer to my letter , ch . . pag. , . he urgeth exod. . . deut. . , levit . . exod. . . to prove that gen ▪ . . was a promise of grace and mercy to jacobs posterity , such as of which circumcision was a seal , rom. . . which he saith is no other then a covenant of grace , and saith circumcision did seal that covenant , to be the god of believers , and their seed , gen , . , . but not one of the petitions or speeches alledged do prove either the former , or this last assertion . the petition of moses , exod. . . was upon occasion of the making of the golden calf , & gods speech to moses concerning the consuming of them for it , and making moses a great nation : moses to divert god from this thing , alledgeth , . that they were his people which he brought out of aegypt with great power , and a mighty hand ; and if he should consume them , the aegyptians would reproach him , as intending mischief to them when he brought them out of aegypt . where it is true , god calls the body of them his people : but this must be understood , if evangelically , in respect of the better part onely ; if legally , either de jure because they ought to have been his people , being delivered from aegypt , and having engaged themselves exod. . . to obey god ; or de facto , because he had done so great things for them , and thereby owned them in respect of his actings for them above other people . . he presseth god with his oath to abraham , isaac , and jacob. but the oath he mentions is concerning the multiplying the seed of abraham , isaac ▪ and jacob as the stars of heaven , and giving the land of canaan to them , and that they shall inherit it for ever ▪ not a word of being god to all the natural issue of abraham by isaac and jacob in respect of evangelical blessings , nor a word tending to shew the extent of th● promise gen. . . in respect of gospel grace . the same answer i give to his allegation of deut. . , , , . and to mr. bls. flirt i answer , this divinity was then known to god , and god might have sent away moses with this answer , that he spake for some who were dogs , or reprobates , and not children of god according to the election of grace , which is the apostles divinity , rom. . , , . cor. . . heb. . , , , , , . and that they were strangers from the co●monwealth of israel , that is , of the israel of god , gal ▪ . . and t●is is also the apostles divinity , rom. . . and therefore i count this no absur●ity . but i grant they , even the worst of them were not dogs , but children , and of the commonwealth of israel political , in respect of their outward state , and in that respect holy , and different from other people . to the other i answer , it is true , moses prayed in faith , and was heard ; but there is no mention in the places alledged of his praying for spiritual evangelical grace for every particular israelite , but for the preventing an utter destruction of them : nor doth he at all express any such faith , whereby he believed god had promised to be a god to all the natural issue of abraham by isaac and jacob in respect of evangelical benefits . but that god would not destroy them , in which respect he was heard . and in like manner the covenant upon the account of which god did vouchsafe mercy , is that of giving them canaan , which mr. bl. will not have the covenant it self , but an appendix to it ; and yet exod . . that is it which is pleaded , and levit. . , the covenant it is plain is that he made concerning their seating in canaan , for it expresly saith , and i will remember the land , and v. . i will not utterly destroy them . the church it is true , saith , isa. . . we are all thy people ; but if this church be meant of all and every israelite by natural descent , then all and every of them were a praying people , which is not to be said , and therefore is to be understood of the believing remnant onely , or else that they were gods people in the sense before given of exod. . , . deut. . . exod. . . it is true , god saith to moses , to stay up his faith in confidence of the deliverance of israel from egypt , that he was the god of his father , the god of abraham , of isaac , and jacob , and it is ●rue , our lord christ hence proves the resurrection of the dead , luke , , . and therefore it proves eternal life included in the promise , gen. . . but this is so far from proving god to be a god in respect of evangelical blessings meant gen. . . to every israelitte , or to be a god to believers and their natural seed , that it is a good argument to the contrary ; for this absurdity would follow , that every one of them are certainly saved , if he were a god to every of them in the sense , luke . , . mr. bl. next excepts against me for censuring of chamiers calling the promise of the land of canaan an apenpendant to the covenant , gen. . . and saith , the thing is so clear in the narrative of it , gen. , that nothing can be more evident . the covenant is full , v. . to be a god to abraham and his seed ; and this he might have been , had he pleased , in the land of ur of the caldees , or in any l●nd whatsoever that his seed had been planted● : but when the covenant is thus made , there is added ; v. . and i will give unto thee , &c. answ. my censure of chamier was no more then this , i like not , and i say the same still , that the promise of the land of canaan gen. . . is not a meer appendant , but as truly a part of the covenant god made with abraham gen. . as v. . and to mr. bls. strong conceit i oppose my strong conceit of the evidence to the contrary ( being backed by the scripture ) as sufficient of countervail his saying ; and for his reasons . . god might have been a god to them in vr ▪ ergo , the promise of canaan is but an appendix , not a part of the covenant . i answer , . by the like reason it might be said , thou shalt be a father of many nations , is but an appendant to the covenant , contrary to gen. . . because god might be a god to him , though father of one nation onely . . by denying the consequence , which is in my slender conceit a baculo ad angulum ▪ the other ( if it be a reason and not a dictate ) is , the covenant is full , v. . but when the covenant is made there is added , v. . i answer . . by like reason it might be said , the covenant is full ▪ v. , , . but when the covenant is made v. , , ▪ there is add●d v. . ergo , v. . is n● part of the covenant , but an appendant to it . . it is not proved that at v. . the covenant is full , yea v. . being as mr. bl. himself stiles it , an additional promise , it is proved , that the covenant is not full without it being added as a promise , and so a part of ●he conant . i said the holy ghost me thinks speaks otherwise postscript . § . . mr. bl opposeth . the force of this argument must needs be this . that which is any where called a covenant , that is not an appendant to a covenant . but the giving of the land of canaan to the seed of abraham is there called by the name of a covenant . mr. t. sure will not say that circumcision is the covenant between god and his people , he will not deny but it is a signe and seal annext to the covenant ; and yet gen. . . it is called a covenant . mr. t. well enough knowes a metonymy of the adjunct and the common use of it in scripture ; but that it is his wisedome for his advantage to conceal it . answ. mr. t. well knows , that mr. bl. useth artifices to elude , when he should answer . the words of the psalmist were alledged as a plain testimony , which need not be formed into an argumen● , but if it need forming , i should not form it as mr. bl. forms it ( that he may the eas●er slight what he cannot answer ) but thus . that promise which is called gods covenant for ever , the word which he commanded to a thousand generations , which he made , was his oath , confirmed for a law and everlasting covenant , decl●red by saying in words what god would do , that is a covenant , at least in part , and not a meer appendant . but such is the promise of the land of canaan , gen. . . and elsewhere , ergo . the major might be proved from the definition of a covenant , which is either a promise or an aggregate of promises single or mutual . the minor is the very text . and to mr. bls. shift i reply . i knew well enough a metonymy of the adjunct or signe to beuied gen . . but i withal knew it would have been my folly to have expounded the term [ covenant ] psal. . , . by a metonymy like that gen. . . for i should have made the psalmist speak non-sense , and perverted his plain meaning if i had thus expounded , he hath remembred his covenant , that is not his promise it self ▪ but the signe and seal of it , which he made , sware , said and i think it had been mr. bls. wisedome to have concealed this shift , and rather have let it pass without saying any thing to the objection . mr. bl. adds his fifth and last argument , from texts in the n. t. which interpret this covenant thus en●ered with abraham in that latitude as extending to his natural issue , and not with limit to his spiritual seed ; and that not barely in domestick civil , but in spiritual promises ; so that this one hath many in the bowels of it . answ. abrahams spiritual seed are true believers as he was and elect persons , spiritual promises are so called from th● things promised , called ephes. . . spiritual blessings in heavenly things in christ , such are regeneration or circumcision of the heart , remission of sins , justification , adoption , eternal life . if mr. bl. holds the covenant with abraham extending to his natural issue , and not with limit to his spiritual seed in spiritual promises , he holds r●generation , remission of sins , justification , adoption , eternal life , to them who are neither true believers nor elect persons . let 's view his proofs . first , saith he rom. . , , , , . the apostle aggravating his sorrow for israel , not respective to civil or domestick but higher concernments for the whole body of israel , he reckons up their priviledges , the priviledges of all that according to the flesh were israe●ites ; priviledges formerly enjoyed , but now lost , nine ●n number . here sure is enough to conclude them of the seed thus in covenant t● be of gods adopted seed under the promises . answ. he might more truely have said , here sure is nothing ( as it was printed ) to conclude all the natural issue of abraham , isaac , and jacob , to be of gods ad●pted seed under the promise of spiritval blessings in the covenant gen. . . as it contained gospel grace . the priviledges could not be o● all that according to the flesh were israelites , for of them all as concerning the flesh christ could not come , now were all ( if any of them ) priviledges evangelical from spiritual promises in the covenant of grace , but rather all of them domestick or civil priviledges which believers of the nations had not . nor were the priviledges to the israelites at all times , but at some times . and therefore this text is impertinent to mr. bls , purpose , yea this scripture and that wh●ch followes put together , are an antithesis to his thesis . secondly , saith he , rom. . the apostle speaks of the casting off of gods people . those that are cast off from being a people of god , were once his people ; those that are put out of covenant , were a people in covenant : but the natural issue of abraham ( called natural branches , v . being by right of birth of that olive ) are there broken off , cast off ; therefore the natural issue were the seed in covenant . answ. the conclusion is granted , the natural issue of abr●ham who were also the spiritual seed were the seed in covenant , and such were a great part of the jews in former ages , but those broken off , were never in the covenant of grace ; nor is it said they were put out of the covenant of grace , or broken off from the olive in which they were in their persons , but in which their progenitors were ; nor are they said to be natural branches v. . because by right of birth of that olive , but by reason of their descent from abraham they are natural branches of that olive which at first was by natural as well as spiritual descent from him , but never by right of birth . it is false if meant of casting off from being his people , as it is meant rom. . , ▪ that those that are cast off from being a people of god were once his people , understanding it in their own persons . but of this text , and this argument , more hath been said in the first part of this review , and more will be , if the lord permit , in that which follows . thirdly , saith he , matth. . , . whence he thus argues . children of the kingdome that are to be cast out , are in the kingdome onely upon an in●erest of birth , for the fruition of the priviledges of ordinances , and not upon any spiritual title , infallibly giving interest in salvation : but the children of the kingdome were upon our saviours sentence to be cast out , therefore they were in the kingdome onely on an interest of birth . answ. this argument concludes not mr. bls. position , that the covenant exprest gen. . . in the fullest latitude of the words as they are there spoken , in the largest comprehension ( which according to scripture they can be taken ) are entered with all the natural seed of abraham , by isaac and jacob. . it contradicts his own position , for if it bee as , he here saith , tha● they were not children of the kingdome ( though the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob ) upon any spiritual title infallibly giving interest in salvation , and yet the covenant gen. . . wherein god saith , he will be a god to abrahams seed , comprehends such saving grace as creates a spiritual title , infallibly giving interest in salvation , as the apostle gal. . , , , &c. expounds it , then the covenant gen. . . is not entred with all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob , in the fullest latitude of the words as they are there spoken , in the largest comprehension ( which according to scrip●ure they can be taken ) therefore this argument overthrowes his own positi●n . . if by [ being in the kingdome ] be meant being visible members of the visible church jewish , the conclusion is granted , but withal it is proved from the same text , that they were never in the visible church christian , but were opposite to it , in that they embraced not the christian faith , but opposed the lord jesus christ , and so had no right to baptism , though they had circumcision , and did eat the passeover . it is manifest from the text , and agreed upon by interpreters , that the kingdome of heaven in that place notes the kingdome of glory , or the state of eternal life and blessedness in heaven , and not the visible church onely , or a being in it for the fruition of the priviledges of ordinances . for the kingdome of heaven is that wherein abraham and isaac and jacob were then sate down , for it is said v. ▪ . they shall sit down with abraham isaac and jacob , in the kingdome of heaven . but they were then sate down not in the visible church onely , nor had being in it for the fruition of ●he priviledges of ordinances , but in the state of eternal life and blessedness in heaven , ergo ▪ . the kingdome of heaven there is directly opposed to the outer darkness , where is weeping and gnashing of teeth v. . but that which is directly opposed to the outer darkness in which is weeping and gnashing of teeth , is the kingdome of glory , or the state of eternal life and blessedness in hea●en , and not the visible church onely , or a being in it for the fruition of the priviledges of ordinances , ergo . . the scope of the speech of our saviour is conceived by most interpreters , to be to abate the insolency and pride of the jews , who contemned the gentiles . upon occasion of the centurions faith v. . he tels them , though they now despised the gentiles as not worthy to eat with them , yet they should come from east and west and should sit down with the best of their ancestors , in the best , highest , and happiest place and condition . . ex●ounding it of the visible church it were not true which our saviour speaks ; for the gentiles did never sit down with them in the visible church for the fruition of the privi●edges of ordinances , such as c●rcumcision , the passeover , baptism , the lords supper , for some of these abraham , isaac , and jacob , did never partake of , nor ever shall , nor may the gentiles with them , partake of circumcision , and the passeover , for that had been to have foretold that the gentiles should have been circumcised with those fathers , which had been to establish judai●m , contrary to the apostles decree acts . to pauls determination gal. . & . , , , , , , . yea , if it had been foretold that the gentiles should come and joyn themselves to the visible church jewish , which began in abraham , isaac , and jacob , our lord christ had foretold that conjunction , which was so far from proving true in the event , that they who did come to christ were persecuted and cast out of that church gal. . . thes. . . . hence it follows , that the children of the kingdome are not so called because they were in that ▪ kingdome of heaven which is there meant , for then they had never been cast out : but they are called children of the kingdome , because as diodati notes , by the prerogative of gods covenant the jews seemed to be heirs of this kingdome , or as the new annot . as ch . . . who were born of those parents to wh●m the kingdome was promised , and by vertue of the covenant rom. ● . . it had still belonged to them , had they not forfeited it by their unbelief and wickedness . pisch . sch . filios verò regni ] id est , judaeos qui hacteni●s per aliquot saecula ad regnum illud coelorum vocati sunt & vocantur . beza annot. filios regni , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , indigenas , quos vocant vulgò naturales subjectos . intelligit autem dei regnum , ad quod pertinebant in gener● quicunque erant ex abrahae genere , cum longè alia sit ratio coram deo censendi filios abrahae , nimirùm ex fide . so that they were children of the kingdome not before god in actual title or possession , but onely in appearance to men , and likelihood , considering their descent and the first manifestation of christ , and the gospel to that people . . out of this it appears that a man may be said to be ●ast out of the kingdome of heaven , who was never in actually , but onely in possibility , according to what was apparent to men , and consequently mr. bls. propositions are not true in his precedent argument , those that are cast off from being a people of god , were once his people ; those that are put out of covenant , were a people in covenant ; nor the argument good , ishmael was cast out of covenant , therefore once in . nor is it seldome , that men are said to be brought up from the grave , as psal. . . and to be redeemed from the grave and hell , who were never in , but onely in danger of it . but mr. bl. hath yet a fourth text , which was his text in his birth-priviledge , it is gal . . from whence after some explication given of the text he t●us argues , that which is a priviledge of nature or birth , belongs to the natural issue , that cannot be denied . but to be in covenant with god as a people holy and exceeding others that are without as sinners , is a priviledge of nature or birth , therefore this priviledge belongs to the natural issue . ans. to be in covenant with god may be understood either in respect of the covenant with abraham gen . or the covenant at mount sinai exod. . to be in the covenant gen . may be in respect of evangelical benefits , or of domestick and political benefits or priviledges , as , to bee accounted members of the israelitish nation and so of that church , to have the service of god among them , the law among them , education under it , freedome from idolatry , and other pollutions of the gentiles . to be as a people holy , may be understood either of holiness by inward sanctification , called circumcision of the heart , or of outward holiness in being distinguished from other people , as set apart visibly for god , whether in reputation or truth , either by gods distinction or by an outward signe , or by their own profession . i grant the minor of being in covenant either exod. . or gen. . in respect of the domestick and political benefits , at least some of them , and to be a holy people exceeding others that are without as sinners , if understood of outward holiness in reputation or truth , by gods distinction , and by the outward signe of circumcision , was ( i do not grant is ) a privil●dge of nature or birth , and accordingly grant the conclusion , that this priviledge did ( i do not say doth ) belong to the natural issue ( i do not say to all ) of abraham by isaac and jacob , and was proper to the jews , and no more can be gathered from gal. . . there 's not a word of the same priviledge as belonging to the natural poste●ity of believing gentiles . but the minor is denied , if understood of evangelical benefits and of holiness inward ( of which alone the question should have been formed , his position being in full opposition to my words ) nor is it proved out of the text , himself expounding jews by nature , that is by birth and off spring of a nation that is holy though in themselves sinners , reputed an holy people , a people by covenant holy to the lord , which they might be though to be in covenant with god gen. . . and as a people holy and exceeding others that are without as sinners by inward holiness be not a priviledge of nature or birth . but mr. bl. thinks my grant involves me in not a few contradictions . . to what i say exercit. pag. . the natural seed inherit onely domestick and civil benefits . but mr. bl. falsly chargeth me , the word [ onely ] is mr. bls. addition not mine , as the reader that shall read the words may perceive . . to what i am wont to deny , that birth entitles any to such priviledges as interest in circumcision , and observance of moses law . but this is another of mr. bls. forged calumnies : let him shew if he can that i say so any where , and he deserves some credit , if not let him suffer as a calumniator . . that i deny the natural seed any promise of spiritual mercies , which is another forgery of his like the former . . that i say this was proper to the jews in that church state , who had prerogatives peculiar to them . and then saith thus . and here we urge it no further , and it fully concludes mr. t. in a contradiction , that will have the natural seed of abraham , and no other then his spiritual seed to be entituled to such priviledges . here 's more of his forgery , that i say no other then abrahams spirit●ul seed are entituled to such priviledges as were proper to the jews in that church state , who had prerogatives peculiar to them . let him shew any such thing in my writing , or let him , as he and his fellow paedobaptist mr. robert baillee ( who hath in like sort wronged me ) as they ought , testifie their repentance by righting me . otherwise the lord will to their shame discover their evil dealing , i● their own conscience be so blinde or so hard as to slight such a sin . he concludes thus , any one of these arguments severally , much more all ●ointly , make good this position , that all the natural seed of abraham by isaac and jacob , are in that great charter ( vouchsafed of god ) taken into covenant so as to be the people of god , and to enjoy all priviledges of his people in order ( upon gods termes ) to everlasting salvation . but . not one nor all prove that god did promise to all gen. . . or any such outward priviledges as he means , to wit , to be circumcised , or right to it and the passeover , nor that all enjoy them . . the promises of justification , adoption , eternal life , upon gods termes , without the promise of regeneration and effectual calling , make no● a person to be in the covenant , nor a people holy to the lord evangeli●ally . now this promise mr. bl. hath not proved to be made to all the natural seed of abraham , by isaac and jacob , and till he doth so , he proves nothing against my assertion exercit. pag. which he pretended fully to oppose , but hath failed to do it . his . ch . is answered before sect . . i pass on to ch . . which is thus entituled , the covenant in new testament times takes in parents with their children ; this he sets himself to make good first by interrogatories , and then by peters words acts . , . which is answered before sect . . a little o● his interrogatories . to his first , if by the grant he mean the covenant of grace evangelical , i deny it to have been ever made to a beli●ver and all his seed , nor is it proved by mr. bl. if a covenant of visible church-membership and initial seal , i deny any such covenant ever made by god to a believer and his seed , or the grant thereof to have been held by the church of god in fee from abraham to this present hour , and therefore need shew no reverse of such a grant . to his d . demand , i grant a whole nation may enter into covenant as deut . nor do i restrain any from engagement of their infants and posterity unborn by an oath and curse to own god but i finde there no promise or grant of visible church-membership and initial seal to believers and their seed , by vertue of such a covenant . his other frivolous questions in that demand are answered often , that the difference ariseth f●om the different institution of circumcision which is the rule of administring them , not interest in the covenant if there were such . to his d. demand , i know no scandal ever given or likely to be given to the jews by not baptizing infants . his random talk of s●riking out of the covenant infants , is shewed often before to be vain , as going on suppositions not proved . to his alleg●tions of gen. . . ezek . . . cor. . . i have often answered before . to his th . that the reason why in the apostles dayes and the next age to them ▪ no question was moved about the baptizing of infants , though infants were circumcised by the jews is manifest , to wit , christ had not appointed infants to be bap●ized , the apostles and primitive christians did not at all use it , it was contrary to the end and use of baptism as appointed by christ , they knew not of the paedobaptists doctrine , about the title to baptism from the covenant , and its succession to circumcision . but mr. bl. further refers me to mr. baxters treatise of infants church-membership , proving that infants were sometimes church members , pag , . that there is no repeal of this grant vouchsafed of god pag. , . waiting for some fair answer to the former demands whereto i shall address my self , as being very desirous wi●h the assistance of the lord to do my endeavour for the freeing of men from the delusion of that book , wherewith a great number of paedobaptists have been gulled . sect . xlix . the th ▪ ch. of mr. baxters , part . of plain scripture-proof , &c. is examined , his conceits about infants visible church membership and their admission considered ; and sundry animadversions made on that chapter . mr. b. part . ch . . of his plain scripture-proof , &c. writes thus . my d . argument , and the chief i shall make use of is this . all that ought to be admitted visible church-members , ordinarily ought to be baptized : but some infants ought to be admitted visibl● church-members ; therefore some infants ordinarily ought to be baptized . mr. t. hath gone over and over the terms of this argument ; so oft ▪ as if he could not possibly find out my meaning in them : when they are as plain as i well know how to express my self . a great while he fain would have denied the major proposition ; but at last he is content to deny onely the minor : and indeed that is the very heart of the controversie . the question between us is no● so mu●h whether infants may be baptized ? as whether they are in the number of christians , and to be added as members to the visible church ? if mr. t. did grant the minor , and not deny our children christianity , and to be members of the church , i should for my part , think his errour ( though foul ) yet of less consequence in denying of baptism . but it is their church-membership that he denieth , and yeeldeth that all that ought to be admi●ted members should be baptized . answ. that i did often in the dispu●e at bewdly go over and over the terms of this argument , need not seem st●a●ge , when mr. thomas hooker having the book he was to examine before him in print , in a like point , saith thus , survey of the summe of church discipline , part . ch . . when i had read over mr. rutherford once and again , i was at a stand in mine own thoughts , to determine certainly what was his proper intendment by the catholick and visible church . i might well doubt what he meant by the visible church , how he defined i● , ( wherein his notion is different from what others have , as is shewed before in the d . part of this review , sect . . ) whether he meant the visible church catholick , or particular ; and if particular , whether jewish , or christian. and for the admission , what he meant by it , how , and by whom it ought to be , was doubtfull . i perceived in the very entrance of the dispute , by his preface , and his propounding the question about our baptizing , representing it as odious , as if it were murder and adultery ; and after by his denying liberty of repeating to mee , refusing to explain his own terms , scoffingly putting if off as if it were catechizing of him , when i desired him to open some terms to me which he used ; and when i told him that it was needfull the people should understand us , he replyed , he came to dispute with me , not to instruct them : nor would clear them , except i could by distinction force him to it . i deprehended that he was , as i found him , bent to catch advantages to insult over me , and carry away the same of a victory , and not in a brotherly candid way to discuss the point , that truth might appear to all the hearers , which i hoped from a man so seemingly godly . upon which reasons i confess i was hesitant , both about the answering of this , and other arguments all along the dispute , finding that mr. b. had studied arguments in unusual expressions , that he might the more easily entangle me , having no time to weigh his words , but being required presently to give answer . for which reason i was also necessitated sometimes to vary my answers as i deprehended his meaning to be . now presuming i shall better understand mr. b. then i could do before , i shall give a more determinante answer to his argument . which that i may do , i conceive it necessary , that in the entrance i do enquire into his opinion concerning the visible church , and admissi●n into it , and the meaning of his expression [ ought to be admitted visible church-members . ] . mr. b supposeth that the reason of the appellation given to the visible body , is its seeming ( to the judgement of man ) to be the same with the mystical . praefestin : morator sect . . . that to be a member of the church visible , is but to be one that in seeming , or appearance , or to the judgement of man doth belong to the invisible church or the kingdome of heaven , if a man be known ( or any sort of men ) to belong to the church invisible , then they visibly belong to it ; and then they are visible members of the church . plain script . proof , &c. part . ch . . pag . ch . . pag. . he saith , to be member of the visible church , or of the church as visible , or a visible member of the church are all one , and is no more but to seem to be a true member of the church of christ , ( commonly called invisible ) or of the true mystical body of christ. answ. to my valedict . orat. pag. . you say you dispute them not out of the invisible church . answ. . but will you yeeld that they are so much as seeming probable members of the invisible church ? if you do , then they are members of the visible , which you deny : for to be a visible member of the church , or a member of the visible church as such , is no more th●n to be a seeming member of the invisible church , or one that we ought to take in probability to be of the invisible church . wherein how mr. b. is mistaken , is shewed in the d . part of this review , sect . . pag. , &c. . ch. . he imag●nes an universal visible church existent , not dissolved ; which is all one as to say , there is or was an universal visible church , consisting of indivi●ual members immortal , or perpetually visible : which mistake of his will come under consideration in that which follows . . ch. . & ch . . he imagines having infants to have been of the essentials of the jewish church . but therein he is mistaken : for though they may be termed substantial parts , yet not essential , ( the jewish church had ben a visible church though there had been no infant in it ) but integral . . ch. . that the nature of the jews church was not repealed , that the jews church was not repealed , ch . . that the law or covenant on which the species or essential form of their church ( and many of its accidents ) was grounded , is not changed or repealed . though the jews are cast off , yet the law and nature of churches is still the same ▪ which speeches , with other more of the like kind , shall be ( god willing ) examin●d in that which follows , and the non-sence and vanity of them shewed . . ch. . that infants visible church-membership did not begin at the institution of circumcision , but rather with the first infant of faithfull adam , though he after fell off . . that this is grounded on a law and covenant of god , which is made higher then that , gen. . . even that gen. . . ch. . yea , he makes it to antecede the fall of adam . ch. . it is said to be of the law of nature to have infants to be a part of a kingdome : and ch . . therefore infants to be church-members . pag. . that infants must be church-members , is partly natural , and partly grounded on the law of grace and faith : as if church constitution were natural , and not by meer institution . . animadv . on mr. bedfords treatise of baptismal regeneration . plain script . proof pag. ● . pag. . and elsewhere he makes the condition of the infants church membership and justification to be wholly without him in the faith of the parent . the falsity of which conceit is shewed by me in the d . part of this review , sect . , . and elsewhere . . that this visible church-membership , notwithstanding the continuance of the parents faith the imagined law and covenant , yet endures not but til they , when they come to years , do themselves make profession . so plain scrip. proof , part . ch . . pag. . he is not to be taken for a christian , who will not visibly by himself when he comes to age ( as he did by his parents in infancy ) publickly profess both his assent to to the fundamental articles of faith , and his consent that the lord onely shall be his god , and christ onely his redeemer , and so his saviour and lord , and promise in heart and life to be true to him accordingly : and i deliver the sacrament to none that will not thus profess and promise . and pag. . he saith , he will not contradict this proposition of davenant , those who in baptism were truly justified , regenerated , and adopted suitable to their infant state ; when they come to the use of reason , are not justified , regenerated , and adopted suitable to the special state of the aged , unless by repenting , believing , and abrenunciation , they fulfil their vow made in baptism . . that there is no other way of admitting visible members now into the church , but by baptism , pag. . . but they are visible members afore baptism according to his tenet , pag. . we and infants are church-members before baptism . . i presume that when he saith , all that ought to be admmitted visible church members , ordinarily ought to be baptized , he means this of christian churches , church members , and admitting into them , not the jewish : for though i find him speak as if the jews church were not repealed , ( as in his non-sence he speaks , ch . . ) that is , as i imagine , in the nature or essence the jewish church visible and the christian were the same , and so they that were admitted into the jewish , are to be admitted into the christian ; which caused me to suspect at the dispute an ambiguity in that expression [ ought to be admitted visible church-members . ] yet i do not imagine that he holds the proposition in this sense , all that ought heretofore to be admitted visible church members in the jewish church distinct from the christian , ordinarily ought then to be baptized afore christs coming ▪ while the jewish church stood : if he should , i should deny it . . that this admission which infants are to have is , as he often speaks , into the visible church : but what this admission into the visible church is , by whom , and unto whom it ought to be , according to mr. bs. judgment , is yet to me uncertain . admission is , according to the common use of i● , the taking in of a person into an office , army , or family , or the like , to perform the work , enjoy the benefit , profit , &c. of such an officer , member , &c. and it is usually done by some officer to whom that business is committed ; and the person upon his admission , and by vertue of it , takes his place , work , benefit , or what else he is admitted to , as his right and due . but i know no such thing in the baptizing of infants . indeed by baptism regularly , a man is admitted to the communion of the church in prayer , hearing , receiving the lords supper , and such other acts of christian communion as belong to visible church-members . but an infant by baptism is not admitted to these prayer and hearing are in some sort allowed to unbaptized persons , and they are admitted to them who are infidels , when infants baptized are sent away as uncapable of them , and disturbers by their crying and playing . the lords supper they are not admitted to by their baptism , till they themselves profess , as mr. b. and other paedobaptists agree ; the being , name , repute of chur●h-members is antecedent to baptism , and therefore they are not admitted to it by baptism . i must confess therefore i do not well know what this admission of infants i● which is by baptism , and i think the proposition in mr. bs. argument to be void of truth or sense , if it be not thus construed : all that ought to be admitted visible church-members are baptized , or , which is all one , ordinarily ought to be baptized afore they are admitted , unless the admission and baptism be one and the same , and then the speech is an inept tautologie , as if he had said : all visible church members that ought to be baptized , ordinarily ought to be baptized . so that now mr. b. may see some reason of my demur about his major proposition , which though it were as plain as he well knew how to express himself , yet there is so much ambiguity in it , that in the sense which the words in any good construction will bear , it is to be denied : but if he understand it in the later sense , the syllogism is nugatory , the minor and the conclusion being the same . nevertheless , as in the dispute i let the major pass , so i shall do in this answer , onely taking notice of some things in his proof of it , and insist upon my denial of the minor . the first argument of mr. b. to prove admission into the visible church is to be by baptism , i approve , and thence conclude against infant baptism thus . if we have neither precept nor example in scripture since christ ordained baptism , of admitting any by baptism as visible members but believer● by profession , then all that must be admitted visible members ordinarily by baptism , must be believ●rs by profession . but since baptism was instituted ( or established ) we have no precept or example in scri●ture of admitting any a● visible members by baptism , but believers by profession . ergo , all that must be admitted visible members must be believers by profession . i know not what in shew of reason can be said to this . for what man ( yet mr. b. and paedobaptists dare ) dare go in a way which hath neither precept nor example to warrant it , from a way that hath full current of both ? yet they that will admit infants into the visible church by baptism do so . if he say there 's precept before , i answer , his own major requires precept or example since christ ordained baptism , and therefore that shift avoids not the retortion of his argument . to what he replies to this argument in his praefestin . morator , sect . . besides what i have said in the d . part of this review , sect . . pag. . . there is enough in the same book , sect . , , &c. to manifest , that infants are not in any scripture disciples appointed to be baptized , matth. . . nevertheless , i find alstedius in his supplement to chamier de natura ecclesiae , cap. . § . . thus writing . baptismus admittit in ecclesiam particularem : sed in ecclesiam catholicam potest aliquis admitti sine baptismo ; quia hanc ad rem sufficit vera fides . and whereas mr. ball in his reply to the answer of the new-ergland elders about the nine positions , pag. . had said , baptism is the seal of our admission into the congregation or flock of christ ; but not evermore of our receiving into this or that particular society as set members thereof : mr. allin rejoyns in his defence , pag. . baptism doth not admit actually into the church , and your own expression secrety implieth as much , when you say , baptism is a seal of our admission into the church or flock of christ : if baptism be the seal of our admission , then there is admission thereunto before baptism : but who doth admit , and where and when is any admitted to the church , but in particular congregations ? ●an any be admitted into a charch , that whole church being ignorant thereof ? fulwood serm . of the church , &c. p ▪ . the children of believers , born in the church are not ( though virtual ) actual members of the visible church before baptism . this i produce , to shew the uncertainty among paedobaptists about admission into the church by baptism , and membership before baptism . like also what mr. b. saith in his d . arg . to be above ordinances is to be above obedience to god , and so gods : and when he saith in his d. the nature and end of baptism , is to be christs listing , engaging sign ; it is a good argument to prove that infant baptism hath not the nature and end of baptism , ●ith it is not christs ( that is , according to his appointment ) listing , engaging sign , the infant neither lists nor engageth himself by it as christ appointed : and when he saith , if it be the use of baptism to engraff and enter us into the body or church , cor. . . and into christ , as rom. . . then sure it must be used at our engraffing and entrance , it rather follows , it is before , sith the means is to be before the end in execution . to what he saith about church-members , disciples , christians , enough hath been said in the d . part of this review , sect . . &c. in his th . argument , having formed an argument from ephes. . . he saith of me . mr. t. in his exercit. objecteth , . that then the thief on the cross , &c. were no church members . answ. it followes not from [ he that is baptized shall be saved ] that therefore he that is not baptized shall not be saved : so here , for the former speaks but ad debitum , and the later de eventu ; it will follow , that it is a duty to baptize all members where it may be done ; but not that it shall certainly come to pass . refut . what i said exercit. pag. . of that text , ephes. . . was not an objection against what mr. b. would evince from the text , but in answer to an argument urged for infant baptism from that text by a london minister , in a conference anno . which argument being drawn from an act or end of christ , which was not onely duty ▪ but his performance : it was urged , that if infants were not baptized , and to be baptized , they belonged not to the church : to which i answered , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by an answerable illation , by the same reason the thief on the cross should not belong to the church because not baptized . that which mr. b. answers is not true , that mark . . the former part speaks but ad debitum , and the later de eventu . for though a duty may be gathered from the subject of the proposition , it being clear , that salvation being promised to the believer baptized , faith and baptism are required duties to that end ; yet the former part of the proposition doth as fully speak of an event as the later part doth . and though ephes. . . it is proved a duty to baptize , as a●so to preach the word , because it is christs way ( in which we are to concur with him ) of clensing his church : yet the clensing of the church with or in the washing of water by the word , doth not note a duty , but an end intended , and event to follow by christs action . mr. b. proceeds . . he objecteth , that therefore it must be understood of the more famous part of the church , or that purification is to be understood of that which is for the most part . answ. the apostle speaks plainly of the whole church ; and to take it for part , is to cross the text , except you shew a necessity for it . . it speaks of all quoad debitum , in regard of the means of it , which they are capable of . . and usually quoad eventum of the said means too . refut . . it cannot be understood of the whole visible church , in which are many reprobates ; for it is that church which christ loved with that peculiar love which is the husbands pattern to love his wife by , for whom he gave himself , that he might sanctifie it , that he might present it to himself glorious , and a church not having spot or wrinkle , or any of such things ; but that it might be holy , and without blemish : which are true onely of that part of the visible , which is also of the invisible church of the elect . . whomsoever it speaks of , [ that he might purifie it in or with the washing of water by the word ] it speaks of the intention of christ ; which being supposed that it is not frustrated , it follows , that those who are said to be purified in or with the washing of water by the word , are all in the event converted by preaching , and baptized with water . which sith it cannot be said of all elect infants , for they are not purified by the word , it must be understood as i say , either by a synocdoche of the whole for the more famous or apparent part ; or else the act is meant of that which is usually done , or for the most part , not what is universally and perpetually . . it is granted , that we may gather thence the duty of preaching the word , and baptizing with water , and that they who are sanctified by preaching are to be purified by baptism , and that this was usual in the event , a known use in the primitive times : but expresly it notes onely christs act , not the ministers duty , which is onely implied , and follows from this , that christ doth it by them ; and it supposeth , that they who are capable of the one , to wit● baptism , are capable of the other , the hearing of the word ▪ for these two are conjunctively put , not dis-junctively either the one or the other , as if some were purified in the washing of water onely , others by the word ; but the same who are purified by the one , are purified by the other . mr. b. adds . object . but some may say , that [ by the word ] is here added , which infants are not capable of ▪ answ. . infants are sanctified by the word of promise and precept to parents to dedicate them to god , though not by the word preached to infants . . the means is to each member as they are capable . washing by water to those that are capable of that , and by the word to those that are capable of that , which blind and deaf men are not any more then infants . ref. there is no word of precept to parents to dedicate infants to god by baptism , though there be to pray for them ; nor do i think m. ● . would allow every parent to dedicate his or her infant to god by baptism , which they must do if there were a precept to them to do it . that there is no such word of promise as entitles every infant of a believer , or any definitely to baptism , much less that appoints parents to dedicate their infants to god by baptism , is amply shewed in this book before . nor can the meaning be , ephes. . of such a sanctification . for . no word of promise , and precept to parents to dedicate them to god , is that which christ doth sanctifie or clense them by , partly because there is none such , partly because the word of precept to parents ( if there were such ) to dedicate them to god , would not clense or sanctifie the infants , it hath no effect on them , nor notes their duty : nor doth the precept sanctifie or clense , but the observing of it ; nor was the parents dedication ever made by god a means to clense or sanctifie the child , as there is meant . nor , were there such a word of promise to a parent , would that of it self sanctifie and clense . . the word there meant , is the word of the gospei preached to those who are said to be clensed by christ. for . all along the n. t. and particularly in that epistle , by [ the word ] is meant the word of the gospel , as it is preached or published . acts . , , . rom. . , , . ephes. . , heb. . . pet. . . luke . . john . . & . , . & . · & . , . & . . & . . acts . . matth . , , , . mark . . & . , , , , , . & . . luke . . & . . & . , , , ; . & . . & . . john . , . & . , , . & . , . & , , , . acts . , . & . , , . & . , , . & . , . & . . & . , , , , , , . & . . & . , , . & . , . & . , . & . . & . . cor. . . & . . & . . cor. . . & . . & . . gal. . . ephes. . . phillip . . . & . . col. . , . & . . & . . thes. . , . & . . thes. . . tim. . . tim. . , . & . . tit. . , & . . heb. . . jam. . , , . pet. . . & . . revel . . & . . & . . & . . . it is the word of the gospel preached or published , by which persons are said to be purified , converted , regenerate , sanctified , john . . & . . acts . . & . . . rom. . . gal. . . ephes. . . jam. . . pet . . not any where by the word of promise barely as made by god , but as it was fulfilled and preached , is christ said to sanctifie or clense his church . and by this , all said to be purified , ephes. . . are clensed , and therefore no infants , who are not at all capable of understanding it , and therefore not so capable of being clensed by it as the blind and deaf . mr. b. yet adds . object . but it is the invisible church that christ is said thus to clense , answ. . certainly those that are washed with water , or hearing the word , or either , are all visible members . . the visible church hath the outward priviledges and titles of the invisible , because as to us they must in prohability be judged to belong to both . therefore paul freq●ently calls them all saints and sons of god by faith , &c. ref. though they be of the visible who are so washed , yet the church ephes. . , , . cannot be meant of the meerly visible ; but onely of them who are so of the visible , that they are also of the invisible , as is proved before from the things said of the church , which agree to none other . and thus mr. b. hath my answer to that ch. and my apprehension of his major ; let 's now view his minor , and try his achilles which he is so confident of . sect . l. the fifth chapter of mr. bs. plain scripture proof &c. part. . is examiand the texts gal. . , &c. matth. . . cleered so as to prove infants now no visible church-members . ch. . he begins thus . though i have many and clear a●guments from the new testament , to prove infants to be members of the visible church , as i shall let you see , god willing , when i come to them ; yet because i think it most orderly to take them before us from the beginning , i wi●l first fetch one from the old testament , and that such as is fully confirmed from the new : for i hope you are none of those who have wiped out all the old testament from your bibles , or that presently look upon a text as no text , if you hear it come from the old testament . answ. i know none at bewdley so erroneous or foolish . but mr. b. may see ( if his high soaring meditations and studies will allow him time to descend to view such a low argument , as hee oft disdainfully speaks ) something written in the d . part of this review , sect. , . which tends to prove that no good argument can be drawn from the old testament for his admission of infants visible church members . and for his many and clear arguments from the new testament to prove infants to be members of the visible church ; he did wisely put in the caution , god willing when i come to them i shall let you see them , to save his credit , though he never shew them . for my part i despair of ever seeing them . as for those i have found brought by him , the chief have been examined in the first and second part of this review , and found impertinent . the dispute that remains to be viewed is so immethodical , that had mr. b. ever been bred up in schools , i am confident he would have been ashamed of it . but i must now follow him in his own track . i therefore , saith he , argue thus ; first , if by the merciful gift and appointment of god , not yet repealed , some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church , then some infants are to be so admitted still : but by the merciful gift and appointment of god not yet repealed , some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church : therefore they are so to be admitted still . answ. mr. b. pag. . plainly saith , that by [ admitting ] he means solemn admitting , that since baptism was instituted ( or established ) we have no precept or example of admitting visible members any other way , that as a souldier before listing , and as a king before crowning and taking his oath , so are we and infants church-members before baptism : he saith pag. . of this argument , i will first fetch you one from the old testament . whence . it is apparent that his visible church membership and admitting visible church-members , are not the same . . that a merciful gift and appointment of god of visible church-membership is not a●l one with the merciful gift and appointment of god of admission of visible church-members . . that a merciful gift and appointment of god of admitting visible church-members , is by some solemn rite . which is confirmed in that he speaks of admitting visible church-members , as a duty to be performed by some persons , as when he saith ch . . ought to be admitted visible church members , and in this place were once to be admitted visible church-members . visible church-membership might be and was a gift of god , not a duty , ( which is some action to be done by man ) but a state or relation resulting from the foundation , or cause , or reason of it . now if mr. b. cannot shew ( as i am confident he cannot ) any other gift or appointment of god of admitting infants visible church members in the old testament unrepealed , besides that of circumcision , then either his antecedent ( as hee terms it ) must be meant of it , or else he mocks the people of god with a pretended merciful gift and appointment of god of admitting infants visible church-members unrepealed , which is no where extant , but is fained by himself to delude them : and if it be that of ci●cumcision , then his minor asserts the appointment of circumcision , and h●s conclusion is , that our infants are still to be circumcised . nor can i , with all my enquiry and study , conceive ( if he had understood himself ) he could mean any other . for by his making admission solemn , comparing it with listing of a souldier , crowning of a king , it is manifest that he understood it of a solemn rite ; and speaking of it as a thing that ought to be , he must mean it of an act to be performed by man ; and limiting it now to baptism , he intimates it was by some rite answerable to baptism heretofore , which i hardly think any learned man but would conceive must be meant of circumcision and no other , sith no o●her was appointed by god to infants for admission of them as visible church-members . it is true , he often , when i pressed him in the dispute to speak plainly whether he meant by his appointment or law unrepealed that of circumcision , did deny it , and distinguished between the law of infants visible church-membership and that of circumcision ; but he never shewed me a law of infants admission as visible church members besides it . and in his arguments whereby he proves the not repealing , he concludes about the not repealing of the law of infants visible church-membership , not of their admission . of which fallacy i had in the dispute some obscure apprehension , and therefore pressed him so often to speak plainly , and told him he must mean it of circumcision , ( which fact of mine mr. b. did in the dispute , and doth here ch . . represent as defective in tenderness of conscience , fear of god , love of truth , charity to a brother , common modesty , after his usual fashion of making out-cries without cause , ) but could not then c●ear it , having not then so well understood his opinion , nor his shifting of the terms , nor being able to shew it for want of a notary , and time to view his arguments , he being also very quick in urging and pressing me to answer , without allowing time to weigh his arguments : and therefore after much altercation concerning his meaning , gave way to his proof of the law of visible church-membership unrepealed , and neglected to keep him to the proof of the law of admission unrepealed , to mine and the causes great disadvantage . whether mr. b. did fraudulently or ignorantly manage the dispute , belongs to god to judge ; though i must needs say , that i did then , and do still suspect he was not free from deceit , or dolus malus in it : finding in a copy i have of the dispute , that he distinguished then between visible church membership and admission . as for my self , had i perceived so clearly as now i do , his mind about the kind of visible church-membership and admission of infants he asserts , i should have stuck to this , that though infants could have been proved visible church members , according to the law he pretends unrepealed ; yet were they not to be admitted by baptism , which is appointed onely for visible church-members by profession of faith : and therefore whereas he saith he contends more for infants visible church membership then baptism , and makes tha● the very heart of the controversie , i conceive otherwise , and do let him understand , that were it not that i know that he hath very much abused me and others in that which follows , i should think my tenet not overthrown , nor much regard it , though his law of infants visible church-membership were yeelded , and my answer to his arguments omitted . but sith things are as they are , i resolve to go on . the antecedent ( saith he ) hath two parts . . that by gods merciful gift and appointment some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church : this is as far beyond all doubt as you can expect . . mr. t. granted it in his publick dispute : and so he doth in his apology , pag. . where he saith [ i acknowledge that in the visible church of the jews , the infants were reckoned to the church ] yet lest any should be so impudent as to deny it , i briefly prove it thus . . if infants were part of them that entred into covenant with the lord god , and into his oath , that he might stablish them for a people to himself , and he might be to them a god ; then infants were part of the church : but the former is plain , in deut. . , , . to any that will read it . therefore infants were part of the church . answ. what i did i still grant , that infants were part of the jewish church , and were circumcised ; but the conclusion mr. b. infers from deut. . , , . is not that which mr. b. should prove . for it is not all one to say , infants were part of the church , and by gods mercifull gift and appointment some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church . nor doth deut. . , , . prove either infants were part of the church , or their admission . their entring into covenant was not by any act of their own , but by the elders or parents , who in like manner covenanted for the unborn , v. . who could not thereby be visible church-members , being not then existent ; and therefore the covenant there made them not vis●ble church-members . nor is there any proof of their admission thence , they were admitted either after or before , the covenanting was not their admission , for admission is the act of some person that hath that trust or office commited to him ; but their covenanting was the p●rsons own act , and if it did admit the infants , then it did admit the parents , elders , captains , and so they did admit themselves , which is absurd ; and the establishing them for a people to himself , is no more then as piscator rightly schol. in deut. . . that he might require from thee the worship of himself by obedience towards his precepts , and so may binde thee to himself . so the obligation of the people precedes , and he might be to thee a god , that is may in like manner promise to thee that he will follow thee with his grace , and do thee good and so make thee happy . so gods promise followes . it was a covenant neither to make nor admit them visible church members , but to engage them to obedience , and to assure them thereupon of protection and blessing : and this extended to their posterity v. . who could not be then visible church-members , or admitted then as being not existent . . saith mr. b. if infants were engaged to god by the seal of his covenant ( circumcision ) then they were members of his church : but some infants were so engaged : therefore they were church members ; this is all undeniable . i never yet met with any that denied either . answ circumcision is not stiled in scripture the seal of the covenant , but i grant that infants were members in the jewish church visible , admitted by circumcision , and engaged thereby though not by their own act , yet according to gods injunction and severe exaction to keep the law , and t●is is the onely proof of their admission mr. b. brings out of the old testament . he adds , if infants were part of those that were baptized to moses in the cloud and sea , and drank the spiritual drink , even of that rock which was christ , then sure they were part of the visible church : but the antecedent is plain cor. . , , . they were all baptized , &c. answ. i deny the antecedent to be plain , cor. . , , . and have proved the contrary to be true , in the d . part of this review sect. . whither i refer the reader : . saith he , the martyr stephen calleth that assembly , whereof they were members [ the church in the wilderness ] acts . . therefore they were church members . answ. the conclusion and proof is granted , but i observe that the conclusion to be proved is altered from this [ by gods merciful gift and appointment , some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church ] into this [ infants were church members , part of the visible church . ] the d . part of his antecedent , which he saith is the onely thing i deny , and which the whole weight of this argument lieth on , is [ that this merciful gift of god to infants , and ordinance of church membership is not repealed ] and he saith he hath here the negative , and the proof lies not on him yet he will examine my proofs , and then prove the negative by a multitude of evident arguments from the scripture , that he hath shewed scripture not questioned for it , and that he may justly expect plain scripture or argument to prove the repeal of that law. answ. he hath shewed no plain scripture , nor any argument for a law or ordinance that infants are , were or shall be visible church-members of which i need prove a repeal , though i grant he hath proved a law or ordinance for the admission of infants by circumcision , which is the onely law or ordinance i finde in him , either for infants visible church-membership or their admission , and if he hold it unrepealed , i can quickly prove the contrary . nevertheless i follow him in his wild goose race . and first , saith he , i expected some plain scripture . . because it must be a plain word of god onely that can prove the repeal of any part of his word , and mens reasonings may as likely prove vain in this as any thing , if they be not grounded upon plain scripture . and . because i deal with those men that call for plain scripture proof of infant baptism from us : therefore did i over , and over , and over , desire mr. t. to bring some word of god to prove the repeal of infants church-membership . but what text do you think he brought ? in his publike dispute he never offered to name one text : nay , in his sermon which he preached after upon deliberation , he never offered to name one text in all the bible , to prove that god hath repealed infants church-membership . is not this enough to make his cause suspicious ? nay , i am confident he cannot bring one text for it . answ. and i have long expected from mr. b. some plain scripture in which i might see any such law or ordinance distinct from circumcision for infants visible church-membership and admiss●on , which i might consider wh●ther it be repealed or no● , or capable of a repeal or not . . because it must be a plain word of god onely that can prove such a law , and mens reasonings ( as it will appear in the examining them mr. bs. are ) may as likely prove as vain in this as any thing , if they be not grounded upon plain scripture . and . because i deal with those men , particularly mr. b. that pretend plain scripture proof for infants church membership and baptism , but to those that justly call for such , bring no express precep● or example of infants baptism in the n. t. ( which alone can be counted plain scripture p●oof in this thing ) but consequences from circumcision and the jewish church-state , which have no validity but on the grant of such suppositions as are false ; yea in these mens disputes against papists , and prelates , and others , are rejected ; and yet they are so extreme blinde as to think , and so impudent as to bear the people in hand , these are plain scripture proofs of infants church-membership and baptism . and therefore did i over and over and over desire mr. b. to bring me some word of god for such a law . but what text do you think he brought ? in his publike dispute he never once offered to name one text : nay , in his praesest . morator sect . . printed some few years after upon deliberation he brings none , though pressed by me in my praecursor . nevertheless , sith m. b. forceth me to it , i determine , as i have done to others , so to si●● mr. bs. allegations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he goes on in his venemous way thus . what if mr. t. should use magistrates as he doth infants ( as former anabaptists have done ) hath he not as good ground ? and would they take it well ? may he not as well say , when i shew him scripture in the old testament for magistrates in the church , and being gods people [ that it was from the peculiar state of the jews : god hath set up no magistrates of christians in the church now ] would not our magistrates bid him bring some scripture to prove the repeal , or else they shall take their old testament commission for currant ? and let him bring me any more scripture to prove the repeal of infants visible church-membership , then is brought to prove the repeal of magistrates in the church if he can : ( o how just is it with god , that those magistrates who favour , countenance and cherish those men , that would keep all christians infants out of the church , should by the same men be put out themselves , both of church and state ? ) answ. what anabaptists in former times did or held , it is hard to say , sith we have the narration of their facts and tenents onely from their adversaries . notwithstanding augustines reckoning jovinian among heretiques , and hieromes invectives against vigilantius , yet learned protestants have excused or defended both . dr. reynold conference with hart , ch . . div . . jewels defence of the apol. field of the church book ch . , . cracanthorp vindic . eccl. anglic. contra spalat . andr. revet . sum . contr . tom . . quest . . &c. mr. b. himself would not pass without a deep censure , if the writings of mr. crandon , mr. eyre , dr. kendal , &c. should bee taken for good proof of his tenets . it is much harder , and indeed a most injurious thing , that the conceived opinions and practises of men of former times , should be charged on antipaedobaptists now who do disclaim them . and as for this spiteful passage of mr. b. though i have said enough to answer it in the d . part of this review sect . . yet i add . that i have not so good ground to deny christian magistracy as infants visible church-membership , that i have scripture to prove the repeal ( if it must bee so called ) of the pretended visible church-membership of infants , which was onely in the jewish national church now dissolved , and another frame erected by christ : but not so of the magistracy which was not proper to the jewish people . melchisedech was a king , job was a magistrate job , &c. civil magistracy as the power of parents , and masters , are of the law of nature and nations , christ and his apostles did not alter the state of magistracy , but left them as they found them , and confirmed them ; sundry converted governours kept their place after conversion : bu● the visible church-membership of infants was onely in the jewish church , the frame of which is quite altered by christ and his apostles , and not the least hint given of any infants being in or solemn admission into the christian visible church , but much to the contrary in the new testament . we keep infants out of the church no otherwise then christ and his apostles did , and if magistrates do favour , countenance and cherish us in this , they do but cherish us in the doing of what the apostles of christ did , and m. b. that doth animate the magistrates to molest us , and in his th . humble advice to the parliament decemb. . . would have us deprived of all pastoral cure having the publique maintenance , doth shew his minde to persecute us , and by his grounds had conceived himself bound in conscience to have dealt so with the apostles , if hee had been in their dayes . but o how good is god to us , and just to him and such as he is , that the madness of such a balaam is rebuked , his advice rejected as injurious , and pernicious , tending to take away that liberty of examining things rece●ved , and to impose on mens consciences new subscriptions and conformities , as intollerable as those the prelates urged , and consequently shutting out light from shining , and inducing persecution afresh ; and that he and such as he is , who are partial in gods law , prophaning , yea quite changing or dissolving the prime solemn ordinance of christ , and opposing ( contrary to their solemn covenant ) the reformation of that abuse , should be made contemptible before all the people ! mal. . . mr. b. adds , yet in private i confess he cited two texts to prove the repeal of gods ordinance and merciful gift , that infants should be church-members : and i will read the two places to you ( which private conference i would not mention , but lest it should be thought a wrong to him to overpass his onely proofs ) the first was gal. . , , , , . when i considered that such a man should deny all infants church-membership , and affirm that god hath repealed that his ordinance , and merciful gift , and have no more scripture for it then such as this , and yet be so confident , it maketh me amazed . hath he not a good wit , that can prove that christ hath repealed his merciful gift , because he hath redeemed us from under our bondage and tutorage ? or that he hath shut out all infants from his church , because he hath delivered them from the inconveniences of their minority ? if i had no better proof then this for infant baptism , i should be ashamed once to open my mouth for it . answ. had mr. b. any true love , or justice towards me , as he seems to have by his pretended loathness to mention my private conference , he had not so often and with such false calu●niatory inferences mentioned in his writings what past in private conference concerning my censure of mens not receiving the doctrine of antipaedobaptism , my plea for plurality of places , &c. whereby he hath done what in him lay , to defame me as proud covetous , schismatical , and given over by god to a reprobate minde , though there was no necessity of such divulgings . but much experience hath taught me to expect no better usage from an intemperate zelot for his opinion , though a pretended friend and seeming godly , then from an open enemy . mr. b. is amazed that i alledged gal. . , , , , . as i did , and but that i have learned nil admirari of such passages , i should be amazed at his dealing with me , in setting down my proofs , though they were but in a private conference without study . the thing of which he urged me to prove the repeal , i remember not whether it were of the visible church-membership of infants , or of their admission . the latter was it , the repeal of which he denied ; for so was his antecedent [ by the merciful gift and appointment of god not yet repealed , some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church ] and this is proved plainly from gal. . , &c. that the ordinance of admission ( which was no other then circumcision ) of infants is repealed ; yea , if that explication of beza , legem enim ( id est totam illam legalem oeconomiam ) dicit fuisse instar tutoris sive curatoris ad certum tempus dati , thus englished in the new annot. for hee saith that the law , that is the whole government of gods house according to the law , was as it were a kinde of tutorship or office of an overseer appointed for a time , be right , the church-membership visible of infants ( which was peculiar to the jews , and belonged to the legal church-state ) is plainly limited in that place to a certain time now expired , and consequently the ordinance of such church-membership ( if there had been such ) repealed . and i say , that if he had so good proof for his infant baptism , as this is for the repeal of his pretended ordinance of infants admission and visible church-membership unrepealed , i would plead for it as he doth . but mr. b. as one that ha●h a good wit , can by his chymistry prove hence his non repeal . nay , saith he , i pray you do but consider , whether his own proof be not sufficient against him ● doth not this text plainly tell us , that the heir in his minority is lord of all ? and so approve of the natural birth priviledge of our children in civil things ? and will god then deny children to be heirs of any thing , and bereave them of their spiritual or church-priviledge , and neither tell us why he doth it , nor that he doth it . answ. gods heirs are but co-heirs with christ ▪ rom. . true believers or elect persons , who are not deprived by me of any truely so called spiritual church priviledge . the priviledge of infants visible church-membership as it came with the spiri●ual church-state of abrahams family , so it ceased with the dissolution thereof , of which god hath given us reason in that it was but for an appointed time by god , which as it began with gods special love to abraham ; so it ended upon his loathing his unbelieving posterity , and setting his love on the gentiles . again , saith he , more plainly : if christ came to free the heir from his bondage and tutorage onely , and from the servitude of his minority ; is it likely that he came to free them from their church-membership ? can any man think that this was any part of the ●ondage ? require those whose consciences are not wholly enslaved to their fancies and conceits , to judge of this soberly , whether they can possibly think it a bondage to be a member both of the universal church and of a particular ! let them not here tell me that circumcision was a bondage ▪ or that the law was a tutor ; for i speak of none of these , but of their being members of the church of god. answ. whom mr. b. means by person whose consciences are wholly enslaved to their fancies and conceits i cannot determine , i know few men who give me more cause of fear that they are such then mr. b. who seems to me to have more conceits and ●ancies then one , and those with so much pertinacy and violent zeal promoted , as ( me thinks ) searce agree to a sober man. for my self i say , that such a visible church-membership as the infants of the jews had , in my soberest judgement , i not onely can possibly think ( which mr. b. himself also may do , sith it implies no contradiction ) but do verily think to have been a part of the imperfect state of the church , and in some respect of the bondage . for though churchmembership be a priviledge of it self , yet comparatively , and in respect of some consequents attending it , as namely subjection to the whole law of moses , it is a manifest imperfection and bondage . as the state of the apostles was a state of minority , bondage , imperfection , while christ was on earth in comparison of the estate after his ascension , when the spirit was powred out upon them john , . and i doubt not to affirm that christ came to free his whole church from that visible church-membership it had then , by natural descent , and consequently to alter the visible , church membership of infants into a more perfect way , by setting up a church throughout the world , not by carnal descent in one nation , but in a spiritual way by faith in christ , through the pre●ching of the gospel . and i must tell mr. b. of circumcision and the law , it 's bondage and tutorage ( whether it like him or not ) sith infants had no where else visible church-membership then in the jewish church , whereby they were in bondage to circumcision and the law. nor can i tell what ordinance of admitting visible church-members unrepealed he means , besides that of circumcision , and therefore he must speak of these if he speak of the visible church-membership in the jewish church which had these annexed . . yet further , saith he , when this text tels us that christ came to redeem us from under the law , and the bondage of minority , is it not a clear proof that he hath brought us into a far better state then we were in before ? and hath advanced us in his family , as the heir at age is advanced ? and can any man of common sence and conscience expound this of his casting all their infants out of his family ? christs church is his family ; and doth the heir use to be freed by being cast out of the family ? why may he not as well say , that all the body of the jewish nation are now delivered by being cast out of the church or family of christ ? is it not more agreeable to the scope of the apostle here to affirm , that certainly they are so far from being turned out of the family or church of christ , that by christ they are now brought into a far higher state , and made members of a far better church , then that particular church of the jews was . answ. it is true , christ hath advanced his church into a far better state then it was in before , and that is the reason why infants are left out ( i say not cast out ) of his visible church . for whereas the particular church of the jews ( in which alone infants were visible church-members ) was as well a civil commonwealth as a church of god , and was by descent of birth , and by proselytism made up of all in the commonwealth ; it seemed good to god to make his church more spiritual , consisting onely of them who owned christ as their lord ; and therefore till infants do so , they are no parts of the visible church christian. and thus men of common sence and tender consciences may and must expound the apostle , it being agreeable to his scope , if they will speak rightly : and the body of the jewish nation , i mean the greatest or most considerable part , if embracing the gospel they had been baptized , their children being not baptized till they professed , had been rightly said to be delivered from the minority and bondage they were in before in the sense before declared . mr. b. adds . . and if any yet say , that it is not the infants , but onely the parents that are thus advanced by christ to a better state , is not this text plain against him ? for the apostle extendeth redemption here to those that were under the law ; and who knoweth not that infants were under the law ? and if it did not belong to each individual under the law , yet it cannot in any tolerable sence be denied to belong to each species or age ; ( yet i can prove , that conditionally this deliverance was to each individual person in the sense as god sent his son jesus to turn every one of them from their iniquity , act. . last . ) and now judge i pray , whether this be not a pittifull ground for men to prove the repeal of gods mercifull gift and ordinance of infants church-membership . answ. that which i say is , that the particular church of the jews being dissolved , a church of a better constitution is by god erected , and so the church of god is advanced by christ into a better state , that is , from carnal to spiritual , which necessitates the leaving infants out of the visible church christian , till they be disciples or believers : and this is a better estate to infants as well as parents , sith that church-state did engage them to circumcision and the law , which were their bondage . nevertheless mr. bs. proof is not to be allowed : for it follows not , redemption is extended to those that were under the law , therefore to each individual , or to each species or age , the term being indefinite , and the speech true if any under the law , and those of one species or age be redeemed ; as in like sort , when god is said to choose the poor , the weak things of this world , this proves not universal election of the poor , or weak , sith the terms being indefinite , they need not be understood universally except in necessary matter . i remember once in a dispute it was urged thus for universal redemption , christ came to redeem them that were under the law , all are under the law , ergo . to which i answered by denying the minor , producing gal. . . rom. . , &c. though i might h●ve answered also by denying the indefinite term to contain all . but if mr. bs. reasoning be good that it cannot in any tolerable sence he denied to belong to each species or age because they were under the law , it will follow , that it cannot be denied in any tolerable sence to each jew , for they were under the law , and then it will follow tha● the jews were universally redeemed that they might re●eive the adoption of sons . and it seems by his words in his parenthesis , mr. b. holds a conditional deliverance for each individual person meant gal. . . concerning which , besides what i have said before , sect. , , . i adde this censure of mr. john collings , provoc . provocatus in answer to boatman , ch . . pag. . universal redemption ; conditional covenant . two covenants , one absolute , another conditional , are notions in divinity i do not understand , and think them hardly reconcilable to truth , ( if to sense , ) they are the canting language of those that would supply franciscus de sancta clara's pla●e , as to reconciling us and arminians , and are no better then arminianism minced for the better digestion . but those words of mr. b. that god sent his son jesus to turn every one of them from their iniquities , acts . last , in the sense he can prove ( as he thinks ) that conditionally this deliverance was for each individual person , do import that he holds that christ was sent not onely for universal redemption conditionally , but also for universal conversion conditionally . which if true , then christ blesseth all by turning every one from his iniquity , acts . . conditionally ; and then unless he can assign another condition then the act of a mans free-will , he must hold universal grace of conversion , and conversion by christs blessing conditional upon the concurrence of mans free-will , which is indeed the venome of arminianism . which if mr. b. hold ( as his words import ) i may well say he stands on pitifull ground , a very quagmire , however men judge of my proof from gal. . . &c. of the repeal of the pretended ordinance of infants church-membership . mr. b. proceeds . but one text more was named , and that is my text , matth. . , . go disciple all nations , &c. is not this brave proving the repeal before mentioned ? what saith this text to any such matter ? answ. the first question hath so much insolent folly , that i think fit to give no answer to it . to the second i say , . this text compared with mark . . proves , that christ appointed after his resurrection , that his church should be gathered in all nations by preaching the gospel , and baptizing , and no otherwise ; and consequently , the church not gathered this way is not agreeable to christs institution . the forepart of the antecedent is plain ; for as pareus rightly paraphraseth the words , com. in mat. . . christs words have this sense , make to me disciples , gather to me a church among all nations by your preaching bringing them to the faith of the gospel . and piscat . observ . matth. . . by the coherence of the sentences it is signified , first by the doctrine of the gospel the nations were to be brought into the church , then to be baptized when they should enter into the church and profess the faith . and that neither the institution of christ , nor practise of the n. t. allows any other way of gathering the church , is proved in the d . part of this review , sect . . &c. . i say this text excludes infants from being baptized , as is proved in the same place , and consequently from being visible members of the christian church . the antecedent is confirmed from mr. bs. words , plain scrip. proof , &c. against mr bed. pag. , . where he proves from mat. . . mark . . &c. that in the institution and every example of baptism through all the bible , the first grace is pre-requisite as a condition , which he makes to be faith included in the term [ disciple . ] the consequence is also proved from mr. bs. assertion , plain scrip. proof , &c. par. . ch . . pag. , . and elsewhere , proved from mat. . . all visible ch●rch members are to be baptized . whence i infer , all visible members of the christian church are to be baptized . no infant is to be baptized . therefore no infant is a visible member of the christian church . now if no infants are now visible members of the christian church , and the church which is gathered without making disciples by preaching the gospel first to them , and then baptizing them , is not agreeable to christs institution , then christ hath repealed the gift and ordinance of visible church-membership of infants . i expect now some brave answer from mr. b. to these plain arguments without any bravery . but what do i meet with . nay , saith he , i am confident the contrary will be proved from this text also : for if it be nations that must be discipled and baptized , certainly all infants can never be excluded , but must needs some of them at least be included . i do not believe that men were to be made disciples by force ; nor that all were disciples when the king or greater part were so : but that the apostles commission was to disciple nations ; this is their work which they should endeavour to accomplish : and therefore this was a thing both possible and desirable : therefore when the parents are by teaching made disciples , the children are thereby discipled also : as if a woman escape drowning , the child in her body escapes thereby , yet this is not by any natural cause , but by force of gods grant or covenant . answ. though mr. bs. confidence , and his foolish admirations and exclamations have taken much with the shallow and heedless both ministers and people of this age , yet they appear ridiculous to me . his speeches in this place are but dictates , that if nations be to be discipled , infants cannot be excluded ; that because they were to endeavour the discipling all nations , therefore infants ; that when the parents are by teaching made disciples , the children are discipled also : all which i deny , and have demonstrated to be false so fully in the d . part of this review , sect . . &c. that i shall as soon expect the snow be proved black , as any of them proved by mr. b. or any other . his similitude is frivolous , no child being included in the parent in respect of discipling , as the child in the womb is in respect of drowning . if it were , then also in respect of baptizing , so that if the mother with child be baptized , the child also is baptized as wel as discipled , and then baptism of such infants after would be rebaptization . such a grant or covenant , by force of which infants are made disciples is a meer figment . if infants were made disciples by a covenant , it must be of god to them , wherein he promiseth it to them upon their parents bei●g discipled ; and if so , then they are discipled ere they be born , and consequently not made disciples by the apostles , and so no part of the nation to be discipled by them , nor they to endeavour their discipling unless they should actum agere , do what is already done ; whence it will follow , that they had no commission to disciple or baptize infants , for they had no commission to disciple by gods covenant , or to baptize such disciples , but those who were made by their preaching disciples ; and as mr collings saith truly in his provoc . provoc . ch . . pag. . the apostles notwithstanding that precept , matth. . , . did not think themselves obliged to baptize any , but such as believed and confessed their sins mr. b. adds . when all that dwelt at lydda and saron were turned to the lord , the whole cities , infants and all , were discipled . answ. though our last translation read acts . . and all that dwelt at lydda and saron saw him , and turned to the lord ; yet in the greek , and agreeably the vulgar , beza , &c. and all that dwelt at lydda and saron saw him , who turned to the lord ; which seems to import , that all they who turned to the lord saw him , and so [ they that saw him ] is limited by [ them turned to the lord , ] which is not to be said of infants . but were the reading retained as it is in our last translation , yet it is a gross conceit of mr. b. to apply this to infants . for it is said of these , . that they saw aeneas cure . . that they were converted to the lord. . that by seeing the cure of aeneas they were moved to turn to the lo●d , as piscator in his sch●lie saith , to wit , moved by t●e miraculous healing of aeneas by peter . now to affirm these thing● of infants , is in my apprehension ( however it be in mr. bs. ) against common sense . besides me thinks mr. b. should not be ignorant that fre●uently in the scripture such expressions wherein the word [ all ] is used ; are limited to a greater part , and those of years the matter so requiring it , as matth. . . & . . acts . , &c. mr. b. adds . how can christ bid them , go and disciple all nations , if infants and so all the nation are utterly uncapable of being disciples ? or how will mr. t. expound the word all nations ? answ. had mr. b. heeded the words of the . section of the first part of my examen , or the th . section of the postscript to my apology in answer to mr. bl. he might have found answer to these questions . but i conceive upon very probable signes mr. b. never studied my writings , but lightly read them , and i finde he hath dealt with me in like manner concerning my answers in the dispute at bewdley , and such passages as he excepts against which fell from me in private conference , and that this is the reason of these and many more unnecessary questions he puts me to answer . but if the reader please to read the d . part of t●is review sect . , &c. he may see a full answer to these questions , the sum whereof is this ; that christ bids them go , and by preaching the gospel mark. . . make disciples of or out of all nations , and then baptize them , who by believing the gospel became disciples , mark. . . which may and must be understood with exclusion of infants , as when he bids them preach the gospel to every creature mark. . . & col . . it was preached to every creature under heaven , yet no infant meant . and by way of retortion , i do s●riously ask mr. b. how he will expound the word all nations ? and how christ can bid them disciple infants without making christ a fool and a tyrant in commanding that which is ridiculous and impossible ? mr b saith of me further . he oft saith , it is here one and there one out of a city or nation that god will call : i shall say more to the shame of this speech afterwards : yet let me say this much at present . if it bee but some few ▪ or here and there one , yea or but the most that christ commandeth to disciple , then we must endeavour to make but those few or most disciples ( for our endeavour must not go beyond our command and commission ) but this is most horrid doctrine , and notoriously false , [ that apostles and ministers ought not to endeavour the discipling of all , but of some . ] ( for paul oft professeth his longing and endeavour to the contrary : ) therefore it is as false that the command is not for the discipling all . answ. what mr. b. hath said to the shame of my speech plain scripture proof , &c. pag. , . ( which is i think the place hee means ) is to the shame of so impudent an affronting of plain scripture proof refelled in my praecursor sect . . which shame is not at all covered by hi● reply in his praefestinis morator sect . . in which he doth not at all answer my proof out of scripture for my speech , but onely seeks to acquit himself from that which i charge him with as not rightly setting down my words , which is his frequent fault . two parts of my speech he excepts against , . that god will not call nor ever did , a whole nation so as that every individual should be within the visible church . against this he refers to his addition pag. . . and there he turns me over to mr. hudson , and refers me to the answering of him when i answer the th . chapter of the first part of his plain script . &c. but many of the texts , and consequently the rest are shewed to bee impertinently alledged , in the d . part of this review sect . . ( where pag. . i was mistaken in what i said , i know not what is in mr. bs. addition pag. , . thinking then it had been some addition which was not in his first edition , which now i finde otherwise ) and therefore if i say no more of that , the reader will not want an answer to the allegations in his addition pag. , . . he excepts against what he conceives i say [ that apostles and ministers ought not to endeavour the discipling of all , but of some ] which he terms horrid doctrine and notoriously false . on the otherside if my meaning be rightly understood , to wit , of persons that have not the use of reason , such as in●ants , natural fools , &c. i aver the contrary doctrine to be horrid and notoriously false , for the reasons fore-given . if he charge me with it , that because i say god will not call a whole nation ( which i mean of effectuall call alluding to cor. . , , &c. ) therefore i mean that we should endeavour to disciple none but such , his charge is but a calumny . no words of mine either in pulpit w●iting , or private speech , tended to such a sense . as for what he saith , paul oft professeth his longing endeavour to the contrary , if he mean contrary to my assertion , it is most false . he no where professeth his longing and endeavour to disciple the whole of a nation , even the infants . the profession he makes philip. . . is the fullest and likeliest to be meant by mr. b. that comes to my thoughts , which it were ridiculous to apply to infants , [ they all ] being the same to whom he wrote entituled , saints in christ v. . with whom he had fellowship in the gospel v. . in whom god had begun a good work v. . who in his bonds and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel were partakers of his grace v. . whose love he mentions v. . thus much for the proof of which mr. b. was confident . to his words . if this [ my alleaging gal. . , &c. matth. ● . . as before ] be not to feign god to say what we would have him ; yea contrary to what he doth say , then i am quite mistaken . i answer , i grant it , and add that i do not call to minde that ever i found a man of so much fame , and confidence , so fouly mistaken as mr. b. is in this point . i proceed as fast as i can after m. b. who hath made the way foul by his scribling . sect . li. the arguments from the altering of the jewish church constitution and call , the ceasing of the high priest , &c. to prove infants now no visible church-members are made good against mr. bs. th . ch. plain , &c. part . . but let us hear , saith he , whether his arguments be any clearer then these texts for him . the sum of all his arguments , that i can hear , is this : if the church constitution whereof they were members be taken down , then their membership is taken down : but the church &c. therefore &c. to prove the antecedent this is added : if their church call be altered , then their church constitution is altered : but their church call i● altered , therefore , &c. to prove the minor , he shews the different calls then and now . . then they were called by moses or abraham ▪ ●he magistrate ; but now by ministers . . then all the nation was called in one way , even servants and all ; but now god cal● here one and there one . besides he shews , that the temple priesthood , sacrifices are taken down and therefore the church constitution . this is the very strength of all that mr. t. hath to say , to prove the repeal of gods merciful ordina●ce of infants church membership . and i cannot chuse but say , they are silly souls , and tractable to novel●y , and easily seduced from the truth of god and far from the stability of judicious tender conscienc't christians , who will be drawn by such misty , cloudy arguing , without any scripture proof ; yea and against so much scripture . answ. and i cannot chuse but say that mr. bs. dealing is dis●ingenuous and sop●istical ▪ in sore ●a●ling readers by such censures , which are the mere evaporations of his own ignoranc● and confidence , and i might add arrogance . but to the argument . i deny that this is the very strength of all that i have to say to prove the repeal , or that it is cloudy , misty arguing , against any scripture , but from it . the argument is ta●en from the notation of the word church , put into the definition of it by the generality of divines , yea by mr. b. himself plain scrip. proof , &c. pag. , ● , that the greek word for church is from calling out , and that the church is a peo●le or a society of persons called out of the world . whence it follows , that they who are not called out of the world are not of the church , they that have not an outward call , are not of the visible church : but infants have not the outward call of the christian church , therefore are not visible members in the christian church . the minor is proved from the proper call of the christian church , which is proved negatively not to be as the jewish church , . by authority , . of a whole people together . . affirmatively by assigning . the onely way of outward call in the christian church to be by preaching the gospel , . that this call is of single pe●sons severed in their habitations , relations , &c. the former is proved by story . two remarkable outward calls there were of the church of israel , one by abraham , and that was gen. . ( perhap● there was some other , but no other occurs to me ) and that was according to gods direction by authority , taking in all his house together , not by preaching as the apostles did . the other of moses exod. &c. which was done in like manner . the later is proved by institution and practise to be seen in these and many more scriptures , ephes. . , , &c. acts . , . act. . , &c. but of this which is the onely outward churchcal infants are not the subjects , therefore neither of visible churchmembership , which is always this way and no other in the christian churches . this is further confirmed from those scriptures which deny the new-birth necessary to admission into the christian church to be by humane generation ( which it must bee if it bee as the jewish church-membership was ) as joh. . . and ascribe it even in jews themselves to the word jam. . . pet. . . it is further confirmed in that the distinction of the church visible and invisible , is from their different calling . they are not of the invisible who are not inwardly called , they are not of the visible who have not the outward call . primum illud quod actu ecclesiam constituit , est vocatio : unde etiam & nomen suu● accipit & definitionem . hudson vindic . p. . exte●nal vocation and submission gave right in foro ecclesiae to be admitted members of the church . ecclesia enim est caetus hominum vocatorum cor. . . cum . . ames medul ▪ th. l. . c. . § . . . but infants have not the outward call , they are not brought into the church by the word . therefore they are not visible church-members . what saith mr. b. now ? you must distinguish between the particular church of the jews , and the universal visible church . and here i lay down these three propos●tions . . the jews church was not the whole universal visible church that god had then in the world . and this he alleageth as my opinion with others and confirms it by sundry arguments . answ. though the assembly at westminster say confess . of faith ch . . art . . the visible church , which is also catholick or universal under the gospel ( not confined to one nation , as before under the law ) consists , &c. yet i agree with mr. b in his proposition though not in all his proofs . for the text gen. . . proves not the continuance of the church in any of abrahams posteri●y but those by isaac , nor do , the instances of bethuel , hiram , the ninivites , candace queen of the ethiopians , evince a church of god distinct from the jewish . his d . proposition is , if the jewish church had been the whole visible church , yet it would have been con●●derable in both respects ; both as the jewish church and as the universal , whic● 〈◊〉 pass . his third is . there is no member of any particular church , who is not also a member of the universal church : therefore infants were members of the universal visible church as well as of the jews particular church ; so that if it could be proved that their membership in that particular church is overthrown , yet that is nothing to prove that they have lost their standing in the universal church . but this shall fullier improve and vindicate her after . answ. it is much to prove they have lost their standing in the universal , if they had no standing in the universal distinct from that in the particular : as an excommunicate , apostate , &c. hath lost his standing in the universal visible church , if he have no standing therein distinct from that in the particular church , which he hath lost . and this was the case of infants , they had no standing in the universal distinct from that which they had in the jewish church ; and therefore if that particular church-state or frame be dissolved in which alone infants are reckoned as members , ( as it is , ) and another erected in which they are not reckoned , infants are not any longer to be reckoned as visible church-members . and ●his i shall make good when i come to mr. bs. fuller improvement of this . . sa●th mr. b. you must distinguish between the essentials , and some accidentals of the jewish church : the priesthood , temple , sacrifice , &c. were meerly accidental , and might be repealed without the re●eal of the essentials , or the ordinance establishing the church it self . answ. i grant the distinction , but find it of no use , till it be shewed what are the essentials ▪ and what not ; what the ordinance is that established that church , that it is of the essentials of that church , that infants be visible members is of the essentials of that church : which to assert were all one as to say , the jewish church had been no church visible without infants , which i take to be absurd . . saith mr. b. you must distinguish between their church conside●ed in it self , and considered comparatively as to othe●s . the jews were a peculiar people and church of god , no other had the like priviledges . now if they had b●lieved , they should have kept all their priviledges absolutely considered : ( except it be a losing them to change them for greater . ) but comparatively co●sidered , they should not have kept some relative priviledges : for they should no longer have been a singular peculiar people , seeing others should have enjoyed as great priviledges as they ; yet this would have been without any loss of theirs , much more without wholly unchurching them or their children . when a man hath but one son , he hath the priviledge of being his fathers onely son : but when his father hath many more , he hath lost that priviledge ; and yet is not therefore turned out of the family ; nay , the adding of more brethren in our case , is an increase of the happiness of each p●rticular : for this is the very case of the jews . the adding of the gentiles would have made the jews no more to be so peculiar as to be singular in their priviledges ; and yet they should have enjoyed never t●e less . therefore mark i● , the scripture speaking of taking in the gentiles , it exp●esseth it as by taking down the partition wall , and making of both one church ; but it speaks not of unchurching the jews first , and their children , or bereaving them of their priviledges . and when in his vision peter was taught the doctrine of the gentiles reception into the church , acts . it was not by making the jews unclean , but by clensing the gentiles to be clean as the jews . so that if the jews would have believed , they should have lost only their comparative priviledges consisting in the singularity of their enjoyments , which is no loss to them , to have the gentiles enjoy them as well as they ; but their priviledges in themselves considered , would not have been diminished , but some lesser turned into greater : and therefore certainly god would never have turned their children all out of the visible church . answ. the distinction is of the ●ewish church considered in it self , and comparatively as to others ; but the application is ( as if mr. b. had forgotten his distinction ) of their privile●ges considered absolutely , and compara●ive , and t●en he saith if the jews had believed , they had lost onely their comparative priviledges , not in themselves considered . concerning which conceits , it had been requisit , if he would be understood , that either he should have given a catalogue of each sort of priviledges , or such a description of them as whereby we mi●ht understand which are of the one sort , which of the other . my opinion is , that had the jews believed , that is every individu●l jew of age , or the greatest part ●ad received the gospel , they should have enjoyed with the gentiles all the priviledges of the covenant of saving graces ; the jewish people should have enjoyed their possessions in their own land , which me thinks christs words import , luke . ● , , . but deny that they should have this as a priviledge to them , that their children should be accounted visible members of the christian churches . for gods purpose was to erect a church universal uniformly by preaching the gospel , and not by birth ; and it appeared plainly by the practise of john baptist , christ and his apostles , who never took in any believing paren●s infant to baptism and the christian church , no● admitted any jew without his own personal profession of faith in christ. nor is the contrary proved by ephes. . . but that very thing i assert . for the taking down the partition wall was by taking away the jewish rites , and church-state , that none could be joyn●d to them without conformi●y to the law , now one church is made of both by faith through the gospel , ephes. . . and in like ma●ner when peter took in cornelius , acts . he declared gods mind in his vision . v. . that in every nation he that feareth god and worketh righteousness is accepted with him ; but he doth not say that every one of their infant children are taken into the church , nor did he any act whereby to shew that to be gods mind . nor are mr. bs. observations of any force , for they suppose that if the church state of the jews were altered , paul would have spoken of their unchurching , ephes. . . and acts● . of their making unclean which implies as if there were no other way then these to alter their church-state , and to leave the infants out of the visible church christian ; whereas i have often shewed the contrary , th●t it was done by taking in onely to bap●ism b●lievers , releasing from the burden of circumcision and the law , which might have been though all the jews of age had been believers . . saith mr. b. so when we call the jews [ a national church ] and when mr. t. saith god to●k the whole nation to be his church , it may be meant either in regard of the appropriation and restriction to that nation onely , as if god had not called any other whole nation : and so it may be true , that the jews onely were a national church ( though yet it is doubtfull , as what is said of melchizedek before sheweth : ) and also in regard of their national and church unity ( which yet is the excellency and strength of all other churches ; ) or else by a national church may be meant , as if all were church members that were of that nation , and no more were required to the being a church member but to be of that nation : and thus i perceive it is by many understood . but this is notoriously false . answ. it is in this last s●nse i mean it , and i think it manifestly true with these explications . . that they were of that nation by birth property , or proselytism . . that they were church-members while they continued to be of that nation any of these way● . . that they were church-members with some dis●uiparance or inequality of priviledges . let 's view mr. bs. proofs . for it was then as well as now , the covenant of god ( wherein he took them for his peculiar people , and they took him for their onely god , the parents engagiag for themselves and their children ) which made them members of the church for . no aged person , no not servants , much less ordinary proselites were members , except they entred the covenant ; though they are commanded to circumcise all in their house , yet it is supposed , that by their interest and authority , they caused them first to enter the covenant : therefore they were to circumcise the servants bought with money , as being absolutely their own , whom they had most interest in ; but not the hired servants , whom they had no such authority over ( except they became proselytes voluntarily ) answ. a mutual covenant , such as that at mount sinai , i deny not to have made the people of israel the church of god , and consequently the infants then born visible church-members . but i d●ny that it was then by reason of the parents engaging for themselves and their children , sith it appears plainly by exod. . , . & . . that the elders of the people onely engaged for the whole nation . and the same i conceive of the covenant deut. . , , . the covenant gen. . if it were mutual , it doth not appear that any other then abraham himself engaged for his house . nor do i deny such a mutual covenant , if the lord should enter into it , or declare his mind concerning it , would make a nation , and consequently infan●s church members . but according to the constitution of the christian visible church i deny god makes any such covenant or declares his mind that by such covenant he will gather his church . yet were it yeelded that the covenant made them members of the church , the propositions are true nevertheless with my explications , that all were church-members that were of that nation , and no more is required to the being a church-member but to be of that nation . and to what he alledgeth , i acknowledge that ordinary proselytes at first admission were not members without their covenant engaging them and theirs in their power to the observance of the law of moses , and the s●me reason i conceive of hired servants , and that thereby they became of that nation , or as the jewish doctors say were regenerated , and lost their former kindred , and became jews . but it was not enough to make them of that church , though they covenanted or professed to take je●ovah for their onely god , except they took on them to observe moses law. therefore cornelius was no visible member of the jewish church , though he feared god with all his house , but was shunned by them , acts . . & . . as an unclean , uncircumcised person of another nation . nor do i find any proof of that which mr b. suppose●h , that all aged persons , as servants bought were before they were circumcised ●aused by their masters interest and authority to enter the covenant fi●st . but this doth no whit overthrow the positions , that all were c●urch-members that were of that nation , and that no more was re●uired to the being a church-member but to be of that nation . nor is there any more force in what mr. b. adds . . and though they were taken into the church in infancy yet if they afterward forsook or renounced the covenant , they were to be cut off from the church , yea to be put to death . . and in many cases their children were to be put to death with them . and therefore their chu●ch was not so national as that any in the nation should be a member of it who forsook the covenant . which i grant : for t●en they ceased to be of that nation , that is in that policy or commonwealth de jure at least , if not de facto . what he adds , indeed god chose the seed of abraham ●n a special manner ? but not to be church members immediately , but first to enter into his covenant , and take him for their god , and so to be church mem●ers , is not true . for immediately upon their birth , the seed of abraham were church-members visible , though neither they nor their parents , or any other entred into covenant for them : and if this speech of mr. b. were true , neither had jews infants been visible church members , and so not to be circumcised ( contrary to the command ) nor according to mr. bs. and other paedobaptists principles our infants visible church-members , nor to be baptized without such entring in to covenant going before , which will nullifie the infant baptism of many , and overthrow the argument from the covenant , gen. . . produced as sufficient for infant baptism by most paedobaptists without any other entring the covenant . . saith mr. b. you must distinguish betwixt breaking off that particular individual church or some members of it , and the repealing or breaking off the species or essential nature of the church . answ. the breaking off the particular individual church of the jews is a term i meet with rom. . . but the term of repealing or breaking off the species or essential nature of the church is a new term not used that i know of any where , but , if i may use dr. kendals phrase , in the schola illustris of kederminster a repeal of a law is an obvious wo●d ; but this term of repealin● of the species or essential nature of the church is like the speech of a man doting . i have heretofore learned that the essences of things are invariable , eternal , definitions are of eternal verity , conformable to the idea in gods mind , though existences be mutable : and therefore to expect a proof of a repeal or breaking off the species or essential nature of the church , is to expect a proof of an impossibility . . saith mr. b. and so you must distinguish betwe●n the repealing of the law or grant upon which the very species or nature of the church is grounded ; and the execution of the threatning of law upon particular persons or churches offending . the repeal of the law or ordinance doth take away all right to the mercy granted by that law or ordinance even the remote conditional right , and that from all men , one as well as another to whom that law gave that right . but the punative execution of the threatening doth onely take away the absolute right to the mercy and the right in it , and that from none but the particular offenders . this punitive execution of the law ( or the curse of the covenant , as it is called deut. . , . ) is so far from being a repeal of the law , that it certainly proveth it is not repealed : for a repealed law is of no force , and so cannot be executed . and upon these two last distinctions , i add this for application of them : the individual jewish church is ( for the most part ) broke off , and so they that are so broke off are now no church , and consequently have lost th●ir priviledges : but the law or covenant on which the species or essential form of their church ( and many of its accidents ) was grounded , is not changed or repealed . so the church of smyrna , thyatira , laodicea , and the rest of asia ( for the most part ) are now unchurched : but this is but by a punitive execution of the law for their sin , and no change in the law , or in the nature of the church ; and so it is with the jews also in their unchurching . though they are cast off , yet the law and nature of churches is still the same ; and onely the laws about ceremonial worship ▪ and some other accidents of the church are repealed . so that the casting off of them and their children , is no proof that the whole species of infants is cast out of the church visible . answ. the nature , species , essential form of the church is that which is exprest in the definition of it , in which mr. b. himself pag. . saith , certainly all divines are agreed , that it is a society of persons separated from the world , to god , or called out of the world , &c. now a law on which this might be said to be grounded liable to repeal is in my apprehension a dream : laws repealeable determine not of essences , but things to be existent , to wit , particular actions to bee done or omitted . nor do i conceive that the essential form of the church is grounded upon a covenant . for though god separate or call a people to himself by a covenant single or mutual , and so may bee of the existence of a church , yet if god do separate or call by authority , preaching , power , or any other way , without a covenant , they will have the essence of a church . the jewish church i never conceived to be a species , but an individual , and of it i grant that it might be and was dissolved without the change of the nature , species or essential form of the church , unto which the having of infants visible church-members did not belong . for if so , without infants and that as visible church-members it could not have been a church . what the priviledges jewish infants had as visible church-members except preservation , as part of that people , such inheritance , and other benefits in part which their parents had , which they must needs lose with their parents breaking off , i do not well understand : nor do i know any priviledge , which the believing jews infants did lose by being left out of the christian church visible , which they should have had if they had been taken in . for the priviledges of the jewish infants by being visible church-members , were , as i conceive , to cease upon the comming of christ , and the erection of the christian church , not by any punitive execution of a law , but a wise dispensation of god , as he conceived fittest for his own glory , and the enlarging of the kingdome of his son. the species , as mr. b. speaks , that is , the whole order , rank , series or sort of men in infancy was never in the visible church , but onely the infants of the jewish nation . nor were they cast out of the church visible by any judiciary sentence , but by altering the church-state from jewish into ch●istian as god thought best . . saith mr. b. again , you must distinguish betwixt breaking off primarily and morally onely by covenant breaking and merit , ( as an adulterous woman doth break the marriage bond , and so cast out her self ; ) or else breaking off in a following act by punishment ( both morally and physically ) as a man that putteth away his adulterous wife : ) in the former sence all the jews that were unchurched did unchurch themselves and their children ; and god onely unchurched them in the later sence : and therefore the children of believing jews ( who did not adulterously violate the covenant ) were never unchurched ; god casteth out none but those that first cast out themselves . answ. if this last speech were true , absolute reprobation should be an errour . but perhaps he means it of casting out by judiciary sentence , and so i grant it true of persons of age . but in the present business , the leaving out infants out of the visible church was neither by any sinfull voluntary dissertion or transgression of gods law , morally deserving it ; nor by any act of judiciary sentence legally , or punitive act executing or physically ejecting : but by a free act of his soveraignty , altering the church-state from a more carnal to a more spiritual , without any detriment to believers or theit children . mr. b. applies his distinctions thus , let us now review mr. ts. arguments . . he saith , their church constitution is taken down ; and therefore their membership . to which i answer : . by [ constitution ] is meant either the essential nature , or some ceremonial accident : and by [ taking down ] is meant either [ by repealing the law , which takes down the whole●species , ] or [ by meer punitive execution taking down that individual church ▪ ] in the first sence of [ constitution and taking down ] i utterly deny the antecedent , and may stay long enough i perceive before he prove it . . by [ their membership ] either he means the individual infants of unbelievers , unchurched jews ( which i grant , ) or else the whole species of infants ( which i deny . ) . besides , the argument concludeth not for what he should bring it : that which it should conclude , is [ that the mercifull gift and ordinance of god , that some infants should be church-members is repealed : ] this is another thing from what he concludeth . answ. . by [ constitution ] i neither mean the essential nature , nor some ceremonial accident , but the composing of the integral parts which make up a church an entire whole or totum integrale . i do not find by such notes as i have of the dispute at bewdley , january . . that i used the term of [ taking down , ] but rather the term [ altered , ] which even mr. bs. setting down my argument shews to have been the term i used . and this alteration i conceive was made neither by repealing the law which takes down the whole species , nor by meer punitive execution taking down that individual church ; but by a free act of his soveraignty as rector or lord , who may at his pleasure alter the frame of his church as he pleaseth : as when a lord or governour one while takes in●o his house men , and their wives , and children , another while onely single men , he neither perhaps repeals a law which made the whole species members of his house , nor punisheth the individual persons that were in his house , but because it likes him better to have his house onely of strong able men , alters the state of his house in respect of the members ; so it is in this case . . by [ their church-membership ] i mean not either the individual infants of unbelievers , unchurched jews , nor the whole species of infants ; but the individual infants of the jewish church-members , whether believing or unbelieving . . if i conclude ( as i did ) that the church-membership of infants was altered in the visible church christian from what it was in the visible church jewish , i prove the pretended gift and ordinance of god that some infants should be church-members is repealed . let 's view his answer to my proof . he proveth , saith mr. b. that [ their church constitution is altered , because their church call is altered . ] to which i answer , . here is still nothing but the darkness of ambiguity and troubled waters to fish in . as we know not what he means by [ constitution ] as is said before ; so who knows what he meaneth by [ their church call ? ] is it meant first of gods law or covenant enacting ▪ making , and constituting them a church ? . and , if so , then is it meant of the essential parts of that covenant or law giving them the essence of a church [ i will be to thee a god , and thou shalt be to me a people , deut. . , . ] . or is it meant of the lesser additional parts of the law or covenant giving them some accidentals of their church , as the land of canaan , the priesthood , the sacrifice , &c. . or is it meant of gods immediate call from heaven to abraham or any others to bring them into the covenant ? . and if so , whether of abraham onely ? or moses onely ? or both ? or whether aaron and all other be excluded or not ? and what he means by a church call to infants that cannot understand , i know not ; except by a call he meaneth circumcising them ? and . whether he mean that call by which particularly they were at first made a church ? or that also by which in every generation their posterity were so made , or entred members ? . and if so , whether that which was proper to the jews posterity ? or that which was proper to converted proselyted members ? or some call common to both ? and what th●t was ? when i can possibly understand which of all these calls he means that is altered , then it may be worth labour to answer him . answ. the speeches are inept of the essential parts of the covenant and the accidental , the essential parts of that covenant or law , giving them the essence of a church , [ i will be to thee a god , and thou shalt be to me a people , deut. . , . which suppose either god could not make a covenant without that promise , or that a church could not be without that promise , or that covenant might be without the promise of the land of canaan , which was as essential to that covenant as the other , they being both but integral parts , of which each is essential to the integrity of the whole . and for the essence of a church , which consists in the association , or union of the members , it is not given by a coven●nt of god , promising what he will be to them , and they to him for the future , ( for that assures them onely of continuance , doth not give their present essence , ) but by such transeunt fact as whereby he separates them from others , and unites or incorporates them together , which i call , as usually divines do , the church call ; agreeably to the scripture , rom . , , . cor. . , . &c. which church call is either inward by his spirit , and is still the same ; or outward , and was , tho●gh by various acts of his providence , yet most manifestly by the authority of abraham and moses , not by meer perswasion and begetting of faith , as in the christian church , when the preachers of the gospel called the christian church : but the authority and power of rulers , who did as well by coercive power as by perswasive words , draw all in the compass of their jurisdiction into a policy or commonwealth , which was called the congregation or church of israel , in which the infants were included , and by vertue of the settlement by abraham and moses it so continued to the time of the dissolution . this mr. b. might have understood easily to be my meaning , by my instances which he sets down , that the way , means , or manner of outward church call into the christian visible church is altered from what it was in the jewish : for the christian church outward call was onely according to institution and primitive practise by the preaching the gospel to each member of the visible church christian , and by that means perswading persons to receive christ , and not by any coercive power of rulers , whereas the jewish was otherwise . mr. b. proceeds . in the mean time briefly thus i answer . . the additional lesser parts of the covenant giving them the ceremonial accidents of their church is ceased , and so are the ceremonies built thereon . . the essential part of the law or covenant is not ceased ; god yet offers the jews to be their god , and them to be his people . if they heartily consent it may be done , onely the world is taken into this covenant with them , and neither jew nor gentile excluded , that exclude not themselves . . gods immediate call of abraham and moses did quickly cease , when yet the church ceased not . . and for the ministerial call , . that which was by the person of abraham and moses numerically did cease when their act was performed ; yet the effect ceased not : nor did the jews cease being a church when abraham and moses were dead and gone . . if he mean it of that species or sort of ministerial call , then what sort is that ? and indeed for ought i can possibly learn by his speeches , this is that he drives at : [ god then called by magistrates , but now by ministers : and secondly , then he called all the nation in one day , but now he calls he●e one and there one . ] answ. the reader may hence easily perceive , that mr. b. might have understood , or rather did understand me well enough , that i meant it of the sort of ministerial call , which he could learn by my speeches , that drive at it . but whether he heeded not my words at first when he wrote the questions , or whether he thought it best to make shew of not understanding , what he could not well answer , he hath chosen to pretend ambiguity where all was plain . but for what he sai●h , that the essential part of the law or covenant is not ceased , because god yet offers the jews to be their god and them to be his people , he therein shews two mistakes : . that he makes that promise to be the essential part of the covenant , as if god could not make a covenant without it , which is false , the covenant gen. . , . with phinehas , numb . . , . with the rechabites , jer. ● . . being without it . . that the covenant did not cease because god still offers , which implies either the covenant to be all on● with an offer , or that there is a covenant when there is an offer , whereas there may be an offer yet no covenant , and there may be a covenant and yet no offer upon condition of consent , as mr. b. means . but mr. b. proceeds thus let us therefore see what strength lies in these words . . what if all this were true ? is there the least colour for the consequence from hence ? it is as good a consequence to say , that when god judged israel by debora a woman , which before was judged by men , that then israel ceased to be a commonwealth , or the constitution of the commonwealth was altered . o● when the government was changed from judges to kings , that then the essential constitution of the commonwealth was changed , and so all infants lost their standing in the commonwealth ? what if the king inviting the guests to the marriage feast did first send one kind of officer , and then another ; first a man , and then a child , and then a woman , doth it follow that the feast is therefore altered ? if first a man , and then a child , and then a woman be sent to call you to dinner , or to any imployment , or company , doth this change the nature of the company or imployment ? what if a bishop call one man to the ministery , and a presbytery another , and the people a third , is not the ministerial work and office still the same ? what if a magistrate convert one man now , and a minister another , and a woman a third , doth it follow that the church or state that they are converted to is therefore not the same ? what a powerfull argument is here for a man to venture upon to unchurch all the infants in the world ? the efficient cause enters not the essence : or if it did , yet not every less principal inferiour cause , such as the messenger or minister of our call is : if you had proved that god had repealed his law which is the charter of church membership , then you had said something , else you say nothing to the purpose . answ. i neither attempted nor needed to prove the essence , nature , or essential constitution of the jewish church to be altered , and therefore if the different call i assign prove it not , yet what i was to prove , that the church constitution in respect of the integral parts , and consequently of infants being included , is alt●red , might be , and indeed is firmly concluded from thence . for as alsted . suppl . chamier . de naturae eccl. ch . . § . . the matter of the church are men called , mat. . . the form is the call it self , and that is either simple , that is , either extern●l onely , or internal onely ; or conjunct , that is , external and internal together . § . . the inward call is that in which god calls inwardly by his spirit : the outward , in which he calls outwardly by the ministery of the church . and this is the call of the church , which as it is the action of god calling , is in god himself ; but as it is received of the church , is it's form : or as ames med . th. l. . c. . § . , . that first thing which in act constitutes the church , is calling ; whence also it receives it's name and definition . for the church is a company of men called , cor. . . with . . and cameron in his praeiect . of the church , in his definition of the church , makes it to be a society of men called by the ministery of the word , and saith , called and believers are the same in scripture . mr. b. confes . of faith , pag. . the church is , caetus vocatorum vel fidelium . if then infants be not called by the word , which is the onely way of calling into the christian visible church , nor believers , then they are no part of the visible church christian , and consequently the church constitution is altered , and the law of visible church membership of infants ( if there were such a law ) is repealed . and this argument is powerfull enough ( if there were no more ) to venture upon to unchurch ( though i like not the expression ) all the infants of the world , that is , to prove none of them to be members of the visible church christian. that which mr. b. objects , doth not invalidate the consequence . for the consequence is not grounded on this onely , that the magistrate called then , and the minister now ; then all together , now here one and there another : but on this , the magistrate did it then by his authority , though without perswading one after another ; but in the christian church the minister doth it by preaching the word , teaching and perswading one after another , as the word takes , and not by any commanding power , or outward force , or legislative , or coercive vertue . and this is sufficient to alter the constitution of the church in this respect ; because if none be called but those that receive the word , and none be members of the church but the called , and infants be uncapable thereof , they are not members of the visible church christian. and therefore mr. bs. frivolous questions all run upon the mistake which out of negligence he runs into , as his own words shew , as if i had argued onely from the different persons , and their different office , and not also from the different way , manner , or sort of call , whereas he acknowledgeth that my speeches do drive at this , that my meaning was of the species or sort of ministerial call ; and so i might answer them all negatively , and gra●t what he would have me , and yet my proof stands good . and for what he saith , that the ●fficient cause enters not the essence , i find to the contrary in keckerm . syst . log . l. . par . . c. . that in the definition of accidents , the notion of distinction , or the difference is taken from the subject , efficient , end , and object . yet this , if true , were nothing against me , who do not make the messenger or minister of our call of the essence of the church , no nor of the existence , though the apostles wo●ds ▪ rom. . . speak near to it : but this is that which i hold , no person is ordinarily a member of the visible church christian , but who is called by the outward preaching of the word , who ever be the messenger or minister of the call ; and sith infants are not so called , they are not members of the visible church christian. mr. b. adds , . i utterly deny that there is any more truth in the antecedent then in the consequent ▪ god hath not altered the nature of the call in any substantial point , but in meer circumstances . answ. what mr. b. means by the nature of the call , and what points he makes in the call substantial , what near circumstances is not easie to tell , but that god hath so altered the jewish ch●rch call , as to exclude infants from the christian visible church is so apparent , that i know not how to conceive of the denial of it . but as a fruit of oppositeness without reason . for all the way that john baptist , christ , the apostles and other teachers took and appointed to be taken for gathering the christian visible church , was by preaching the gospel to all that would hear it , to make them disciples or believers , and so by baptism to joyn them to the church . but that the jewish church call was different is apparent , in that there were no such teachers sent out to unite them , but that by the authority of the magistrates , whether houshold or national they were imbodied . rightly saith mr. hudson vindic . ch . . sect . . pag. . gods method of conveying church-priviledges used in the national church of the jews , being in populo israelitico , must needs differ from the method in populo catholico . and the same is true of gods call . but what need we any other to shew the proper call of the christian church visible then mr. b. himself , in his saints everlasting rest , part . . ch . . sect . . edit . . pag. , . he is so ample , and his words so plain , that i think if there were no more to shew his perverse stiffness in this thing it were enough . i will transcribe some passages . consider in what way christ spreads his gospel : to bring men in from the world into his church from paganism , turcism or judaism to christianity , he never gave the sword any such commission ; he never levied an army to advance his dominion ; nor sent forth his followers as so many commanders to subdue the nations to him by force , and spare none that will not become christians : he will have none but those that voluntarily list themselves under him : he sent out ministers , and not magistrates or commanders to bring in the world . can he say this of the jewish church , and their call ? but let 's view his wincings against the plain truth , and in some sort against his own light , though perhaps forgotten when he wrote this later book . it is , saith mr. b. said , it was then by magistrates and now by ministers . i answer ; . what was by magistrates ? the first call ? or all after ? for the first i know not which or when it was , let him that can tell , see that be prove it . i finde when circumcision was first instituted in abraham's family ; but nev●r when their church-membership begun ; shall i dare to think that either abraham or his family were no church-members till they were circumcised ? rom. . would confute me . answ. mr. b. saith he answers , but indeed puts questions to me to answer , and those impertinent . for though i could not tell him which was the first call , nor when the church-membership of abrahams family begah , yet it might be true and proved , that the call of the jewish church was by the magistrate . but yet for clearing of the truth , i shall make some answer . . that i find god calling abraham out of ur of the chaldees , gen. . . acts . . isa. . . and sundry times i find abraham sacrificing to god , and god covenanting with him : nor would i deny abraham , sarah , and those of his family who worshipped the true god , to have been visible church members before circumcision . . but yet i finde not the whole family of abraham men women and children made a visible church , by any act or ri●e which might be termed a chur●h-call , whereby they were separated from all o●her people and united in a little nation unto god till the appointment of circumcision by god , and the performing of it by abrahams authority . now if mr. b. could not tell which and when the jewish church call was , or the jews childrens church-membership began , i think he is very unreasonable to require of me to shew a repeal of a thing which hee findes not when it began . but there is more of this wilde posing sc●ibling to be answered . . saith he , suppose it were true that abrahams family began then to be a church ; ( which will never be proved ) yet did not god call them to circumcision immediately ? what is this to a ministerial call ? answ. . it will never be proved that any whole family , infants , servants , &c. were joyned in a little national church as the jewish before that time , there being no such covenant , and token of it till then . . god did immediately make his covenant with abraham then and appoint circumcision , but the call of the church was medlate , the revealing of the covenant , and the administring the token of it , whereby they were separated to be a people to god , being done by abraham himself as the minister of this call . yet we have more questions to answer . . are you sure that which abraham did in it was as a magistrate ? and not as a prophet ? nor priest ? nor master of family ? prove that if you can . answ. it is easie to prove that what abraham did was done not as a prophet , nor priest : for then it should have been the work of prophets and of priests to have circumcised : but as the master of the family , or parent , and consequently as the magistrate of that house . for i count a parent or master of a family to be a magistrate in a little compass . yet more . . what was it that abraham did ? he circumcised them when god had commanded ; and was circumcising the call ? then the infants in the wilderness , nor the whole camp almost had no church call ; and then the women had never any church call . answ. circumcising was part of the call ; the declaration of god concerning abrahams posterity , and his other providences separating the israelites in the wilderness and with them the women , as bringing them out of aegypt , bringing them into covenant , giving them laws by moses , &c. which reached to women and males uncircumcised , were also a part of the church call . yet again , what was it then that abraham did more then now may be done ? if you say , he compelled them to be circumcised by violence without their consent , i deny it as a forgery ; and if he had done so by those at age , it had been no making them church-members ; for their consent is absolutely necessary therto . if you say , abraham by his interest and authority perswasion did win all at age in his family to consent ; dare you say , that every master of a family and magistrate ought not to do so now ? so that i cannot finde any more that abraham did in this call then may now be done . answ. i do not think abraham did compel them by violence to be circumcised , i think it could hardly have been so done ; nor do i think abraham did it as preachers do now , by reasons and proofs of thei● duty perswading them to it , and leaving it free to them to consent or not ; ( perhaps the time was too little to do it in , and not unlikely , ishmael would have then refused , being a scoffer , and then thirteen years old : ) but he did it by his command , authority , and interest ; which if magistrates and masters of families do use with perswasion to win persons to consent to the gospel , they do what is commendable , and in some cases their duty : and if they win any , so they make them visible church-members by their preaching to them , not meerly by authority as abraham , who i think was bound to have circumcised by force if any had not yeilded to it , or else to have cut him off by that law which is gen. . . and i hardly think mr. b. will yield a magistrate or master of a family to do what abrah●m did , to administer as they call it , the initial seal , whether it be circumcision or baptism . yet were his conclusion yielded him , neither it nor any thing he hath s●id doth at all overthrow my position , which was , that the christian church call is by preaching , the jewish , by the mag●strates authority , and so different . mr. b. goes on thus . and then for moses what more did he ? did he make them members without their consent ? no , he sets before them life , and dea●h , blessing and cursing ; and bids them chuse which they would . deut. , , & , chapters . doth he circumcise them ? no , not his own son. nor the infants forty years , nor the women at all . doth he command them to obey the commands of god ? and should not every king and magistrate do the like ? d●th he perswade them ? why , you know he was a prophet ; and if he had not , yet sure he must do it as a king , and as a servant of god. where then lies this peculiar call by the magistrate ? i think by that time we have search● this to the quick , we shall finde the magistracy less beholding to mr. t. then was imagined . no wonder that he told the people in his pu●pit that it was doctrine of a dangerous consequence which i delivered [ that magistrates had their power from christ the mediat●u● , and not onely from god as creatour ] i doubt by this arguing of his , that he will not allow the magistrate to call all his people together ▪ and propound the covenant of god to them , and command them to obey god. you finde not moses by prison or fire forcing any man to consent : and if he had , you must have a little further work to prove that it was that which made them a church , or that the magistrates may not still do as much as was done herein then . answ. mr. b. herein doth most shamefully wrest my words and meaning : for whereas to shew the different call of the jewish and christian church , i alledged onely matter of fact , that the one was by the magistrates authority , the other by ministers preaching the gospel , which could not take in infants ; mr. b. wrests my speech as if i had said , magistrates might not do what moses then did , and goes about to insinuate , as if the magistracy were less beholding to me then were meet ; and endeavours to encrease the suspicion of my lessening his power by my doctrine in the pulpit at bewdley . but of my judgement in this thing , i ha●e given account in the same pulpit on occasion of the swearing of the magistrate there on rom. . . in these positions . . that all power is committed to christ to manage as mediator , mat. . . joh. . , . cor. . . and consequently , what they do for or against the church , it is from christ enabling or permitting even as mediator . . that magistrates as well as others are subject to , and are to yeeld obedience to christs commands as he is mediator , mat. . . act. . . . that they have power & authority in many things which concern the church of god , and are bound to use their power for christ , and his church , so far as their power extends , tim. . , . and in this sence it is that christ exerciseth some of his government by magistracy under him , as also by parents and husbands , ephes. . . but i conceive it a business of much difficulty , to set the right bounds of their power many things few or none but papists restrain them in , as the calling of assemblies , judging of ecclesiastical persons for civil crimes , ordering the maintenance , and estates of such persons , with many more such things as are to be done circa ecclesiam , not in ecclesia : on the other side , few or none but erastians allow them power in the church , so as to act as civil magistrates in that which is by special commission appointed to proper officers , viz. the preaching of the gospel , administring the peculiar rites of the christian church , ordination of elders , government by ecclesiastick censures , and such like things . the chiefest difficulty hath been , how far they are to use their power for making men profess christianity , accept of teachers , punishing of hereticks and excommunicate persons , and such like acts , in which f●r the most part magistrates by instigation of popish priests , prelates , and others , have much miscarried , and been unhappy instruments of much oppression . yet for my part i do not deny altogether their power about such things as these , especially if they go no further then what mr. b. here speaks of , the commanding them to obey gods commands , propounding the covenant of god to them , restraining pernicious ▪ teachers , and go upon very sure grounds , that they urge nothing but what is certainly gods command , or agreeable to it , nor punish or restrain men for that which is questionable whether it be an errour , or pernicious . but this i hold , should a magistrate as moses did , by his authority , upon fears or hopes , or other compliance , draw all the people of the land into a covenant , to engage themselves and posterity to be christians , yet this would not make the whole nation to be a christian church , the infants visible church-members , capable of baptism , sith christ hath not appointed this way , but another , to wit , by preaching the gospel to call his church , and the preachers of it to baptize believers so called . . i say , that a civil magistrate is not an officer of christ as mediator , sith he hath no new commission from him as the apostles , john . . and others , ephes . . and i conceive to hold the affirmative is of dangerous consequence : it will follow , . that a civil magistrate is bound to produce a further commission from christ as mediator , besides the appointmen of god as creatour , which i neither think mr. b. hath shewed , nor can shew . . that he who shews commission from christ as mediator to rule , hath the authority of a civil magistrate , which puts both swords into elders hands . . that if a civil magistrate be an officer of christ as mediator , he is in the church , in which alone christ as mediator sets officers ; and then he must be a christian or no magistrate , yea , a church member , and then he hath rule in the church , and power to do ecclesiastical acts . . then dominion is founded in grace , which it seems mr. b. holds . praefestin . mor. sect . . as most certain that it is founded in the grace of redemption and universal ; and brings for it plain scrip. proof , &c. pag. . rom. . . which v. . shews plainly to be meant onely of those that live and die to him , and are his own peculiar people ; and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes not such a lordship as is over enemies , as devils , and children of perdition by power and force ; but such a lordship as is with property over them as his possession , to whom he hath right as his own , cor. . ● . such as a wife , an obedient child , or servant . the other texts prove ●ut my first position . the reader i presume will pardon this excursion , being necessitated by mr. bs. frequent and continued mal●gnant suggestions , tending to make me accounted an adversary to magistracy . i now return to the point in hand . and in answer to mr. bs. demand , i say , the peculiar call of the church of the jews by moses the magistrate was , in his bringing them out of aegypt , into the covenant at mount sinai , setling them under laws , priesthod , government , whereby they were fashioned or established as a national church . but in the christian church , the apostles and other holy teachers did gather , and fashion , and establish the church christan by preaching of the word , without such a way of authority and power as moses exercised . it is true he did as we read , deut. . . but not so as the apostles , who when the gospel was refused exercised no power over the refusers ; for moses would suffer none to live in the commonwealth of israel who did not own the god of israel , and if they worshipped an idol he put them to death . mr. b. adds . . this argument , if good , would help the seekers to prove that we have no church on earth , because not called by apostles , and so the church . constitution taken down , and none by god substituted . let them that have better eys then i find out this peculiar church-making call ▪ for i cannot . answ. my argument , the church call is altered from the way of making the jewish church by abra●ams and moses authority , into the perswasive way of begetting faith by ministers preaching the gospel , therefore the church constitution is altered , doth not help seekers , except it be acknowledged , there is no church now by ministers preaching the gospel , but by meer authority of magistrates , which was heretofore the objection of papists against the english churches , b●t refelled by protestants , jewel , &c. for i do not appropriate the church call to the apostles , or men who could speak that which was meerly , wholly , undoubtedly , insite , implantedly the word of god , as borelius spake ; but to the preaching of the gospel by any minister of christ , or other instrument , whereby faith is begotten , and whereby a●one the christian visible church and all its members were called , in a different way from the jewish church call ; which if mr. b. do not see to have been the christian peculiar church making call , after his wr●ting in his saints everl . rest , par . . ch . . sect . . it seems he will not see i● , and then wee may apply to him the proverb , who so blinde as hee that will not see ? mr. b. passeth on thus . well , but may it not yet lie in the second point [ that they were all taken in to be a church in one day ? ] answ. . what day was that ? i would mr. t. could tell me he saith moses did it : but that 's no truer then the rest . for sure they were a church before moses time . did they begin to be a church in the wilderness ? or did moses onely express the covenant to them more fully , and cause them oft to renew the covenant , and so onely confirm them a church ? was not the circumcised seed of abraham a church in aegypt ? and was the uncircumcised host onely in the wilderness the church ? this is excellent arguing . answ. this is excellent answering , not to deny what is objected , but to propound cross interrogatories . suppose i could not assign the day , is not the thing true ? but that mr. b. may not lose his longing , i tell him it was when abraham circumcised his house , gen. . . when moses made a covenant with them in horeb , deut. . . if i say moses did it , i say but what the scripture doth , deut. . , . nor doth it want of tru●h if it be no truer then the rest . it is not true israel had their church call from moses , for sure they were a church before moses time ; this is mr. bs. excellent arguing . as if the seed of abraham , a fluent being , consisting of a succession of people , might not have one church call in one age , another in another ; one by abraham , another by isaac , another by jacob , another by moses . doth not mr. b. himself , pag. . tell us , that moses did cause them oft to enter and renew the covenant ? i do not say they began to be a church in the wilderness , or that the seed of abraham was not a church in aegypt , or onely in the wilderness : but this i say , the church call of that people was oft in several ages by the authority of the several patriarchs and rulers , as god saw it needfull to bring them into covenant , for better fashioning , establishing , or recovering the church fallen , but for the most part by the authority of rulers ; or if by a prophet , in an extraordinary manner , as elijahs days , kin. . and that not by the way used in the christian church , by a daily adding to the church , and multiplying it by preaching , as acts . . & . . but by authority calling the whole nation and people together into covenant at once . again saith mr. b. but abraham took all his family to be a church in one day , you will say . i answer . first , it is not proved when they began to be a church . repl. nor needs it . ly . and would not mr. t. now have a whole family made a church in a day ? is that his charity ? repl. yes , and the whole world , if it seemed good to god : but we find not that he doth so , or gives us any rule or president for us to do so , in the constitution of the visible church christian , any otherwise then by preaching the gospel to them , and baptizing disciples or believers , mat. . . mark . , . and sure my charity must not be my rule about the use of gods ordinances , but my lord and masters appointment . ly . saith mr. b. and what of it had been true if the whole kingdome ? either it was with their c●nsent , or without : without their consent they could not be made church-members ; for they could not enter into covenant with g●d . answ. if this be true , then no infants are church-members . and though it were true , that none could enter into covenant with god who is of age without his consent , ( which seems to me otherwise , ) yet the consent obtained meerly by the authority of masters or governours , through fear or hopes without teaching , and free acceptance of christ upon the preaching of the gosp●l , doth not make a visible member of the christian church , however it did in the jewish . i do not think the americans forced to be baptized by spaniards , or other people by the conquests of charls the great , and other christian princes , afore they knew christ by teaching made christians , were such , though there was some consent out of fear of loss of life or liberty if they were not . mr. b. adds . and never was any such thing attempted . even joshua treads in moses steps , and bids them chuse whether they will serve the lord or not . jos. . answ. whether abraham had the free consent of all his house to enter into covenant with the lord , or whether he did circumcise some and take them to his family church without their consent , is uncertain : however , if abraham had a slave refractory , which he was loath to lose , yet he must circumcise him against his will , because of the command with the penalty , gen. . , , . and in the circumcising the sichemites what was done and attempted is known . neither moses , nor joshua did so leave it to the jews liberty , but that they would have cut off from the people by death any that refused to acknowledge god ; or that set up an idol . asa's covenant was of putting to death whosever would not seek the lord god of israel , chron. . . whereas there is no such law in the christian church , that whoever shall not believe in christ shall be put to death . yet further saith mr. b. and it being with their consent that the nation were church members , may not the like be done now ? what , may not any or all the nations of the world be added to the church , if they will consent , and enter the covenant ? answ. yes , they may , so many as upon knowledge of christ do freely consent to receive him in all nations : but infants , natural fools , mad-men in their fits , are neither fit to consent , nor to be members in the christian visible church , no nor such ignorant people as do not competently know the christian faith . mr. b. adds . what then is this making them a church in one day that mr. t. so cloudily talks of ? if he say , it is that then the infants were taken in : i answer , that is to prove the same by the same , or else to argue circularly : as to say , their church call did take in infants , therefore the taking in of infants was peculiar to their church call ; this begs the question : or to say , their church constitution is ceased , because their church call is ceased ; or , their church call consisting in the taking in of infants is ceased , therefore their church constitution is ceased ; and that church constitution is ceased , therefore the taking in of infants is ceased . this arguing is like their cause . answ. i have sundry times told mr. b. that the call in one day of the whole nation was by abrahams authori●y , gen. . and by moses , exod. &c. otherwise then in the christian visible church , which was by a daily addition of believers out of several families , cities , and nations , by preaching to them the gospel . and how my arguing is framed without begging the question , or any circle , is before shewed . and the [ call in one day ] i mean● of abrahams and moses act , whether the hearts of the whole nation were bowed to consent to take the lord for their god , or no. i neither envy nor deny the enlarging of the church by christ , nor do i think the converting or taking in more or less makes an alteration in the nature of the church call or constitution ; but a call by preaching the gospel makes an alteration in the christian visible church call and constitution from the jewish , sufficient to exclude infants from christian visible church-membership . but mr. b. clamours thus against me . and what means mr. t. to talk of here one and there one ? to speak so contemptuously in such disparaging language of the kingdome and gospel of christ ? is not the wonderfull success of the gospel one of our strong arguments for the truth of the gospel and our christian religion ? and it seems mr. t. will give this away to the pagans , rather then admit infants to be members of the church . answ. i mean to speak as , the holy ghost speaks , cor. . , , . james . , . rev. . . and as by the histories ecclesiastical may be made apparent , which rashly mr. b calls speaking contemptuously in disparaging language of the kingdome and gospel of christ , as he formerly did my denial of infant baptism accusing of my own children . nor by my saying is the argument for the truth of the gospel and christian religion a whit infringed . for the force of the argument is not from hence , that whole nations , cities , houses were converted by the gospel ; but that though the persons were contemptible who preached , their doctrine likely to affright men , without arms ▪ against opposition of great ones , there was so great success over the world as to conv●●t so great numbers , though few in comparison of the rest , even in most barbarous countreys , from their long accustomed idolatry to embrace a crucified lord. yet saith mr. b. was it but here one and there one when three thousand were converted at once , and five thousand afterwards ? and many myriads or ten thousands even of the jews that continued zealous of the law did believe ? acts . . & . . & . . besides all gentiles ? was it but here one and there one , when all that dwelt at lydda and saron turned to the lord , both men and women , acts . and all that dwelt at samaria , acts . answ. it was but here one and there one as i meant it . . it was not any whole nation or city , and perhaps few whole housholds , sure i am not one infant in any of the places . for in acts . . they who were baptized gladly received the word ; and acts . . they heard the word and believed ; and acts . . they believed and were zealous of the law ; acts . . they saw it , and turned to the lord ; acts . . they believed philip. . these three thousand , five thousand , ten thousands inhabitants might , and li●ely were but one out of one house , and another out of another house : as god had much people in corinth , acts . . yet but few housholds , the husband a believer , the wife an unbeliever ; the servant a believer , not the master , cor. . , , , . so many miriads might be , yet but here one and there one , considering that jerusalem , especially at the feasts , was full of people ; an● that the myriads are not restrained to jerusalem , but ●ight be in judaea , or perhaps in remoter parts . it is evident that the number of christians was not able to match the persecuters , and that even in jerusalem : yea , it is said , acts . . that all the city was moved against paul , and the people ran together , all jerusalem was in an uproar , v. . much ado the souldiers had to rescue him from the multitude , v. . even at that time when the myriads are said to have been of believing jews , v. . the texts acts . & . . say not as mr. b. that all that dwelt at samaria believed , nor all that dwelt at lydda and saron both men and women , but those that turned to the lord , as is shewed sect. . before . yet more . let him shew me when three thousand jews were made church-members in a day , if he can , before christs time : i say , if he can , let him shew it me . sure ever since abrahams time ( and i doubt not but before too ) they were added to the church by one and one as they were born . answ. if i cannot shew it mr. b. gains nothing , my assertion , that the jewish nation were a church together in one day by magistrates authority , the christian church was gathered by apostles a●d others preaching whereby one was made here one day , another there a believer another day , not a na●ion , city , nor always a house together , stands good . but sith m. b. wil allow me so much favour as to shew him any thing , me thinks he should not deny that more then three thousand were made church-members in one day , deut. . , , , , , . and if in the time of solomons reign , when judah and israel were many as the sand which is by the sea in multitude kin. . . three thousand were born in one day , by mr. bs. own grant there were three thousand added to the church in one day . yet again saith mr. b. and i have shewed you before , that christ sendeth his messengers to disciple all nations : it is a base exposition that shall say he means onely , go and disciple me here one and there one out of all nations , and no more . answ. and what childish vanity , if not worse , he hath shewed in his ridiculous including infants to be discipled in that commission , is shewed before in the second part of this review , sect. . &c. if it be a base exposition which he sets down , it is base dealing if he set it down as mine exposition : who yeeld that their commission was to disciple all of a nation who could be discipled , though it is true that they could not do it to a whole nation in a day as moses did ; and in the event they discipled but here one and there one in a house for the most part . yet more saith mr. b. and what means that in revel . . . are not these kingdomes added to the church as well as israel ? i answer , that it means not as mr. b. imagines , that the whole people of kingdomes shall become christs visible church , but the rule or dominion of them shall be his , as the close of the v. and ch . . shew , which makes nothing for mr. b. as will appear by ex●minining his frivolous arguing , ch . . yet again saith mr. b. like a brave goliath , and are not all professors of christianity in england , as truly in the church as all in israel were ? i challen●e any to answer me herein , and undertake to make it good against them ( as far as will stand with modesty to challenge ) whatsoever any separatist ( commonly called independents ) or anabaptists may say to the contrary ; ( for i have pretty well tried the strength of their arguing in this . ) and i have pretty well tried mr. bs. strength in disputes , and find it small though his words be big . i do not answer to the name of a separatist or anabaptist , they are mr. bs. abusive language of me . let independent paedobaptists answer it as they please . i th●nk if they will baptize infan●s from the rule of circumcision and the jewish-church-state , they must assert a national church , admit all that avo●ch themselves christians to breaking of bread , and their infant males to baptism . and i conceive presbyterians by the grounds they maintain paedobaptism are debarred from keeping the ignorant and scandalous from the lords supper ; and though i challenge not as mr. b. yet presume i shall make both good in their season . as for the present question of mr. b. i grant it , and then i hope we shall not fight about it . yet i t●ll mr. b. i do not take all for professors of christ●anity whom perhaps mr. b. doth , nor do i think mr. b. can find me one professor of christianity among all the infants in england . yet a little further , s●ith mr. b. either mr. t. by [ church call ] means that which was the means of entring infants , or men at a●e or somewhat common to both . the jews did all enter into the church as members in infancy , even they that deferred circumcision till forty years old , and the women that were not circumcised . and what call had these infants that cannot understand a call ? answ. the church call of the jewish nation or family of ●braham , was by his authority , in a way common to men of age and infants : abraham and his house were by circumcision and declaring gods covenant formed into a visible church , and accordingly all that were born of abraham , and all that were taken into his house while they continued in that family or nation , were of that church . and this way of church call , by bringing into the bond of the covenant the whole nation , infants , servants , men and women together , was by the authority of moses renewed at mount horeb , and in the land of moab , deut. . . though circumcision were deferred for a time . and this call was of the infants , though not by themselves apart , yet conjunctly with the whole nation , the chief representing the rest , exod. . . deut. . . and among them the infants , who might as well understand a call as a covenant , into which mr. b. contends they did enter . mr. b. adds . the proselytes , who were made church-members at age , were first converted to god , and professed the true religion , and so brought in their children with them : they were converted not all in a day , but by times ; not onely by moses , or succeeding magistrates , but chiefly by priests or levites , or zealous people , or by what way or means god was pleas●d to use for that end . i did int●eat mr. t. to shew me any material difference between the call of these prosely●es into the church in all ages till christ , and the call of us gentiles into the church : and truly he gave me an answer of meer words for a put off , ( wherein he hath a notable faculty , ) which i can find no weight nor sence in , nor am i able to tell what he would say to it ; nor can i conceive what possibly can be said of any moment . and as camero well noteth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is now used in the church as it were in the place of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : discipling new to us , is as proselyting was to them . so that you see now what this church call is which he layeth so great a weight on , and how much in the main it differeth from ours . answ. when that time was that mr. b. made this request to me , and what imperfect answer it was which i gave him , i do not well remember : i guess it was when i had conference with him alone , jan. . . in his chamber , when he drew me to a conference with him , pretendi●g friendliness ; but ( as the event shewed , having jan. . before , when i suspe●●ed no such dealing , written his abusive epistle before his saints everlasting rest , in which he falsly accused me and proclaimed his driving me to absurdities in the dispute , jan. . ) drew from me what he could ●or his advantage , and then printed it in this book , without my revising my answers , or his acquainting me with his printing them , or rightly according as they were printing them , as may be perceived by this review ; and mocking me with this fraudulent trick , when i expected according to his promise to see his arguments written from some of his own or my auditors to whom he would communicate them . but leaving him to the lord , i shall now give a plain answer to his demand . proselytes were of two sorts , . of the gate , as cornelius , ow●ing the god of israel , but not joyning to the church and policy of israel . these were not of the jewish church visible , though they were of the church invisible of true believers , and of the church visible universal of professors of the true god : for they were accounted unclean , and shunned by the jews , acts . . & . , . their calling i conceive was as ours is , by the word of god made known to them ; nor do i find that infants were any part of the church of them , whether domestick as in cornelius house , acts . . or congregational , of which i find not an instance , nor of any rites or discipline they had . . of righteousness , who were made such partly by perswasion as mat. . . and so far their call agrees with our call , and the other sort of proselytes , partly by entring them into the jewish church , by baptism , circumcision , and an offering , and with them wives and children ; and this was done by authority of elders imposing on them the precepts of moses law , and acting according to rules of their own . in which how much their church call differs from ours is shewed in the d . part of this review , sect . . in answer to dr. hammond . now though they were joyned to the jewish church one after-another , and the infants of the jews as they were born ; yet the jewish-church , whether at the first erection , or after estab●ishing , were constituted of the whole family and nation together by the authority of abraham and moses differently from the call of the christian church visible in so material a point as excludes infants from church-membership , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which thing i was to demonstrate . mr. b. goes on thus . but yet one other argument mr. t. ha●h to prove the church constitution altered , and consequently infants now cast out , or their church membership repealed : and that is this ; they were to go up three times a year to the temple ; they had their sanedrim , and high priest : now he appealeth to all , whether these be not altered : and therefore the church constitution must needs be altered ; and so infants put out . answ. my argument is this , if that which had the same reason with infants church-membership be altered , then infants church membership is altered : but that which had the same reason with infants visible church-membership is altered , ergo. the consequence is made good by the rule of logick , where there is the same reason of things , there is to be the same judgement . de paribus idem est judicium . the minor is proved thus . the high priest , sanhedrim , repair to their feasts , had the same reason with infants visible church membership : but they are altered , ergo. the major is proved thus . infants church membership was no where but in the jewish church , we read of it no where else , nor upon any other reason but their being part of the nation , which god had made his church ; they were visible church members upon no profession of their own , nor from any general determination of god , law or ordinance that the children should be reckoned of his church with the parents in any countrey whatsoever , there being no such law ; but meerly from hence , because he would have the nation of israel to be his fixed people out of whom the messiah should come , and so a national church till then . and for the same reason he would have one high priest , temple , repair thither at solemn feasts , a sanhedrim , their genealogies kept , their possessions by lot , &c. but all these are altered now , the church is not national , no one high priest , temple , sanhedrim , &c. therefore neither infants visible church-membership , which had the same reason and no other . what saith mr. b. alas , miserable cause that hath no better arguments ! are any of these essential to their church constitution ? how came there to be so strict a conjunction between priesthood , temple , sanhedrim , &c. as that the church must needs fall when they fall ? may it not be a church without these ? answ. alas miserable cause that hath no better answers ! is infants church-membership essential to church constitution ? how came there to be so strict a conjunction between the church and their membership , as that the church must needs fall when they fall ? may●it not be a church without these ? if the temple , &c. might be altered , and and were , because no● essential to the church ; infants church-membership did cease too , which was no more essential then those , and which hath been proved to have the same reason with these , to wit , gods making his church national out of which the messiah was to come . hitherto nothing is indeed answered , and what is said is retorted . the rest is according to mr. bs. vein of frivolous putting impertinent questions to me . i would intreat mr. t. or any christian who hath the least good will to truth lest in him , considerately to answer me to these . . was not the jewish people a church before they had either a temple , or sanhedrim , or high priest , or any of the ceremonies of the law of moses ? ans. i think not : there was no time they were a church , but they had a priest , an altar , sacrifices , distinction of clean and unclean beasts , &c. were they not a church in aegypt , and in the families of abraham , isaac , and jacob ? ans. they were . . did the adding of these laws and ceremonies take down any former part of the church ? ans. no. or did every new ceremony that was added make a new church , or constitution of the church ? ans. no. . if the adding of all these ceremonies did not make a new church , or overthrow the old , why should the taking of them away overthrow it ? ans. who saith it doth ? . if the jews church constitution before moses time was such as took in infants , why not after moses time ? ans. who denies it ? or if infants were church-members long before either temple , or sanedrim , or high priest , &c. why may they not be so when these are down ? why must they needs fall with them when they did not rise with them ? ans. because if they did not rise with them at the same time , yet they were erected upon the same foundation , the jewish national church , as the walls fall with the roof , though they rise not together , because they rest on the same foundation . . and if the very specifical nature of their church be taken down , then men are cast out , and women too , as well as children . ans. i say not the specifical nature of their church was taken down , but the particular church constitution jewish altered ; and i grant it , that men and women under the consideration as they were in the jewish church , are left out ( i will not say cast out , for they were never in ) of the christian visible church as well as children . if it be said that christ hath appointed men and women to be church members anew , i answer , what man can imagine that christ first repealed the ordinance that men and women should be members of the church , and then set it up anew ? ans. and what man can imagine otherwise who reads the new testament , but that ( if there were such an ordinance that men and women being jews by birth should be members of the jewish church ) christ repealed it , when neither john baptist , nor christ , nor his apostles admitted any jew because a jew into the christian church by baptism , without his personal faith and repentance ? mr. b. saith . i will wast no more time in confuting such slender arguments , but shall willingly leave it to the judgement of any understanding unbyassed man , whether mr. t. have well proved that god repealed his ordinance , and revoked his mercifull gift , that some infants shall be church members . answ. it is my burthen that i must waste more time in refuting such empty scriblings as these , containing questions , and those not touching the argument , instead of answers ; and i leave it to the students of divinity in the universities , and else-where , who are understanding unbyassed men ( if there be any ) yea to any that have studied logick , to judge whether i have not proved a repeal of his pretended ordinance , after i have added some more proof out of the new testament in the next section , and answered his letters to me , to which i hasten . sect . lii . it is proved , that infants were not reckoned to the visible church christian in the primitive times , nor are now . . i thus argue , if no infants were part of the visible church christian in the primitive times , then what-ever ordinance there were of their visible church membership before , must needs be repealed . but the antecedent is true , ergo the consequent . the consequent of the major i think will not be denied : for supposing there were infants even of christians , and an ord●nance before , that the infants of the godly should be visible church members , and yet no part or members ; then it must needs be from the revocation of that ordinance , if there were such a one . now that the antecedent is true , i prove thus . if in all the days of christ on earth , and the apostles , no infant was a part or member of the visible church christian , then not in the primitive times : for the primitive times of the christian church go no further , though i think i might extend my proof somewhat further . but the antecedent is true , ergo. that no infant was a part or member of the visible church christian in the dayes of christ and his apostles on earth , is proved by these arguments . all visible members of the church christian were to be baptised . this is often asserted by mr. b. plain scrip. proof , &c. pag. . the whole church must be sanctified by the washing of water , pag ▪ . as the whole church is one body , and hath one lord , and one faith , so it hath one common baptism . and he alledgeth cor. . ▪ eph. . , . eph. . . out of which this proposition may be proved . but no infants were to be baptised . this is proved at large in the d . part of this review sect. , &c. therefore no infants were visible members of the christian church . . they were not visible members of the church christian who were not of the visible body of christ. this is proved from mr. bs. words plain script . &c. pag. . the body cor. . . is the visible church . pag. . as the whole church is one body &c. pag . what is the church ? is it not the body of christ ? the same he confirms pag. . . from cor. . . which he proves to be meant of the visible church , and it is affirmed by the apostle col. . . ephes. . , . that the church is the body of christ , and so the visible church is his visible body . but no infant was of the visible body of christ. this is proved . from cor. . . all that were of the body were made to drink into one spirit , namely in the cup of the l●rds supper . diodati annot . in locum hanc rationem confirmat testimonio baptismi & caenae dominicae piscat . analys . cor. . . arg. . sacramento baptismi & caenae dominicae omnes fideles connectuntur . dicson expos . anal. cor. . . ut utri usque sacramenti unus scopus & idem etiam esse intelligatur , beza annot . in cor. . . calicem quoq●e domini in hanc spem bibimus . grot. annot . in locum . but no infant was made to drink into one spirit , for none of them did drink the cup in the lords supper , ergo. . from cor. . . all that were one body and one bread , did partake of that one bread which was broken v. . but no infant did partake of that one bread , if they did they must do so still & ▪ be admitted to the lords supper , ergo. . from ephes. . . the whole church is one body , and hath one lord and one faith . mr. b. plain script . &c. pag. . but no infant hath one faith , ergo. . they were no members of the visible church , who were left out of the number of the whole church , all the believers , the multitude of the disciples in all the places where there is an enumeration of the members of the church , or mention of the whole church , the number of believers or disciples in the new testament . but infants are left out of that number in all places in the new testament , ergo. the major is evident of it self . for as we know who was in the church by their mention , so we know who were not by their being left out in those passages , which make an enumeration or reckoning of all , there being no other way to know who were in or out ; and if this be not true , the speeches are false which mention all , the whole , the multitude , as the full number if they were not so . the minor is also proved from those texts where such enumeration is mentioned . acts . . peter is said to stand up in the mids of the disciples , and that the number of the names together were about an hundred and twenty ▪ and in the verses before are reckoned the apostles with the women , mary the mother of jesus and his brethren , and they are said to continue in one accord in prayer and supplication . here i conceive is an enumeration of the disciples or church that then was at jerusalem visible . dr. lightfoot in his com. on acts . saith , the believers at jerusalem no doubt were many hundreds if not thousands at this time ; though we read of no converts in this book till the next chapter . for what fruit or accompt can else be given of all christs preaching and pains bestowed in that city ? let but joh. . . & . . & . . & mar. . . & joh. . . & . . & . , . & . , . and divers other places be well weighed , and it will be utterly unimaginable that there should be less believers in jerusalem now then many hundreds , much more unimaginable that these one hundred and twenty were all , who were all galileans , and no inhabitants of jerusalem at all . the like is the arguing of the assembly in their answer to the dissenters , pag. . nevertheless it seems not improbable to me , considering the narration all along ●he chapter , that v. , . they are said to come together , go to mount olivet , and then to return to jerusalem , and their action noted with special notice of some , v. , . and then next , v . that peter stood up in the mids of the disciples , that this enumeration of is not an enumeration onely of men of note , but of all the disciples of christ then at jerusalem , me thinks the terming of peter a galilean , mark . . doth intimate few of the hierosolymitans were disciples of christ ; christs preaching most in galilee , his directing them to go into galilee where they should see him , matth. . . mark . . the disciples shut●in● the doors and assembling at evening for fear of the jews , joh. . . do shew that most of ●he disciples were galileans , few of jerusalem ; specially when all the disciples forsook christ and fled , matth. . . the shepheard being smitten and the sheep scattered , v. . h●wever the enumeration being of disciples , and the women being reckoned with them , and not their children , nor the actions of prayer , &c. such as are to bee ascribed ●o infants , it is evident that infants were not then countted among the disciples , and consequen●ly not counted for visible members of the christian church . acts . . they are said to be all with one accord in one place . the assembly ubi suprà alledgeth reasons why they all should be meant of the apostles onely , but not cogent . for . the narration doth not any more limit the words act. . . by acts . then by v. . . not onely the apostles , but o●hers were filled with the holy ghost women as well as men , v. . acts . . & . . . though they were galile●ns that spake v. . yet it proves not the [ all ] v. . to be galileans . . the mention is of the apostles v. , , . not to shew that it was a meeting of the apost●es onely , but because they were the leaders and chief actors in that church . and that the meeting was of the whole church at jerusalem then , is proved from v. . th●s , the meeting was of them to whom the three thousand souls were added ; but they were added to the church v. . not onely to the apostles , or teachers . for then the sense should be , that that should be added to the teachers , and so many more teachers added : whereas they are said to continue in the apostles doctrine v. . by their profession of it , the apostles teaching an● not the● . and hence i gather , that not one infant was reckoned to the church , because the [ all ] v. . are said to bee together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with one accord , or one minde and consent , which is not to be said of infants . from acts . . i further argue , the church did then consist of such persons onely as were of like sort with those who were added to it , which must be granted except it be said , the added and those who were added were of different sorts . but of those who were added there was no one infant . this is proved from the words v. , . that they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread and in prayers , and fear came upon every soul , v. . they gladly received the word , which cannot be said of infants ; therefore no infant was reckoned then a● a part or member of the visible church christian. again v. ● . the whole church is meant by all that believed , who are said to be together ▪ to have all things●common , sold and imparted their possessions , continued with one accord in the temple , brake bread from house to house , eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart , praised god , had ●avour with all the people , v. , , . which cannot be said of infants , therefore no infants were then reckoned as parts or members of the christian visible church . again acts . . it is said , many of them which heard the word believed , and the number of the men was about five thousand . that this is an enumeration of the whole church then at jerusalem , is more probable the● that it is an enumeration onely of the newly added ; however the addition being of the same sort of persons with those to whom they were added , and no one infant reckoned to the church , but all men , that heard the word and believed , it is clear that in the number of the christians or disciples infants were not reckoned , and consequently no visible church members then . v. , . peter and john are said to go to their own company , and to report to them the speech of the chief priests and elders , and then upon hearing they lift vp their voice with one accord to god , v. . to pray , to be assembled together , to be filled with the holy ghost , to speak the word god with boldness ; and the church is called v. ● . the multitude of them who believed , to be of one heart and one soul. all which shew , that the church consisted of a company of praying people , of a multitude of believers , which is not to be said of infants , therefore they were no visible church members then . acts . . it is said , and great fear came upon all the church , and upon as many as heard these things . here the whole church is mentioned as contradistinguished fr●m the many that heard these things . but no one infant was a member of the church , sith none was capable of the great fear that came upon all the church from the notice of ananias and saphira's death , therefore they were not then church-members . v. ▪ . they who were magnified by the people , who were joyned to the lord , who were of the same sort with believers , who were the more added to the lord , multitudes both of men and women , were not infants : but such were the church then , therefore it did not consist of infants then . acts . . the church is expressed by the number of disciples , by the multitude of disciples , v. . the whole multitude , v. . the number of the disciples obedient to the faith , v. . but none of these were infants , as their conventing , the speeches to them , and other acts shew ; therefore infants then were not reckoned christian visible church-members . acts . . the church at jerusalem are said to be all scattered abroad except the apostles , v. . to consist of men and women haled to prison , which is not to be conceived of infants , therefore they were not then reckoned as visible church members . acts . . the whole church is said to send chosen men of their own company . but this doth not agree to infants , therefore infants were not reckoned as part of the whole church . cor. . . the whole church is supposed to come togeter into one place . but this is not to be said of infants , they were no part of the company that met , they were not capable of the end and actions of the meeting , therefore they were no part of the whole church , the same may be said of all other like places . . they were no part of the christian church visible , to whom the things ascribed to the whole christian church did not agree . but the things ascribed to the whole christian church visible did not agree to infants . ergo. the major is of it self evident , as in like manner this is a plain truth , that they are no souldiers to whom what is said of the whole army doth not agree . the minor is proved from many places of scripture . matth. . . christ saith he will build his church on this rock , this is meant of the whole church , and the building is meant of building by preaching , ephes. . . & . , . but infants are not built by preaching , therefore they are not parts of the church visible . cor. ▪ the church is of them who are called to be saints which is by preaching the gospel , v. , . but infants are not so called , ergo , they are not of the visible church christian. acts . , . & . . they who were added to the church did all hear the word and believe : but infants did not so , therefore they were not added to the church , and consequently were not visible church-members . they were not parts of the church who did not come together , were not gathered together ; for all the church did come together with one accord in solomons porch , acts . , . were gathered together by the apostle , acts . . but infants were no part of them , they were not with one accord any of those to whom the apostle told what god had done with them , therefore they were not part of the visible church . they were no part of the church of god , who were none of the flock of god to whom the elders were to attend as made overseers over them by the holy ghost to feed them . for all these things are attributed to all the flock or church of god at ephesus , acts . . but infants were none of the flock to whom the elders were to attend as made overseers by the holy ghost to feed them , nurses were to attend and feed infants , not teaching and ruling elders , whose work was in the word and doctrine , tim. . . therfore infants were none of the flock or church of god visible at that time . they were no part of the church of god , who were not in duty to be sanctified by the word . for the whole church was in duty to be sanctified by the word , as mr. b. plain script . &c. pag. . gathers from ephs. . . concerning baptism . but no infant is in duty to be so sanctified , it were a ridiculous thing to t●e preachers to sanctifie or wash infants by preaching the word to them , therefore they were no part of the church . the churches had rest , and were edified ; walked , were multiplied , acts . . acts . . prayer was made of the church unto god for peter . the church at hierusalem , acts , . is said to hear tidings , to send barnabas , who with paul assemble with the church , v. . fit persons to convene , acts . . to receive orders , cor. . . with many more such attributes , which neither are , nor can ordinarily be said of infants , no nor any attribute in all the new testament , which is said of the visible church christian is said of infants , therefore they were not accounted visible members in the first christian churches , nor are rightly now so taken . . they who were not reckoned as christs disciples , were not visible church-members ; for as mr. b. rightly saith , plain script ▪ &c. all church-members are christs disciples . but infants are no where reckoned as christs disciples . this is proved , . from the places in all the acts of the apostles , and elsewhere , where there is mention of christs disciples , there are such things declared of them as do exclude infants from the number of them . i omit acts . . & . , , , . before mentioned . acts . , . it is said that barnabas and saul a whole year assembled themselves with the church , and taught much people , and the disciples were called christians first in antioch : and upon the prediction of a dearth it is said , then the disciples , every man according to his ability , determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in judaea , which they also did , and sent it to the elders by the hands of barnabas and saul . from whence this is apparent , that the church , the disciples , the christians were then synonyma , or terms importing the same p●●sons , so that he who was not a disciple was not of the church , nor a christian. but no infant was then reckoned as a disciple . this is proved from what is said of every disciple , v. . they determined to send and did send , which none will say infants did . ergo , infants were not then reckoned among disciples , christians , or members of the visible church christian. acts . , , . it is said , that the disciples stood round about paul , that he and barnabas taught many , or made many disciples , and that they confirmed the souls of the disciples , exhorting them to continue in the faith . from whence it is manifest , that the disciples then were such as stood round about paul , that they were taught , or made disciples by teaching or preaching the gospel , that they were in the faith , capable of confirmation , and exhortation . but such were not infants , ergo , they were not then reckoned as disciples , and consequen●●y not church-members . acts . . made havock of the church . acts . . against the disciples , v. . the saints at hierusalem , v. . the disciples at damascus , v. . the disciples , v. . joyning to the church is joyning to the disciples , v. . the brethren , v. . the churches , v. . the disciples heard , v. . called the saints . acts. . . it is said they taught the brethren , v. . being brought on their way by the church , they caused great joy unto all the brethren ; v. . they were received of the church . v. . the disciples are they whose hearts were purified by faith ; the whole church v. . are the brethren , v. . who send greeting to the brethren . v. . they were the multitude gathered together , v. . they exhorted the brethren , v. . were let go in peace from the brethren , v. . let us visit our brethren , v. . recommended by the brethren . v. . confirming the churches . acts . . well reported of by the brethren , v. . and so were the churches established in the faith , and increased in number daily , v. . and when they had seen the brethren they comforted them . acts . , . the brethren sent away paul. which passages do shew , that these terms were then of the same extent , and synonymous , the church , the disciples , the brethren , the believers , the saints : but infants were none of the church , the disciples , the brethren , the believers , the saints as all the passages where they are mentioned shew , therefore infants were not then visible church members acts . . paul took leave of the brethren , v. . he saluted the church , v. . strengthened all the disciples , which strengthening was by teaching and exhorting , as acts . ● . shews : which infants were not capable of , therefore they were not disciples ▪ v. . the brethren wrote , exhorting the disciples to receive apollos ▪ who helped them much who believed through grace . acts . , . paul finds certain disciples who were believers , v. . separates the disciples , v. . the disciples would not suffer paul to enter in unto the people . acts . . upon the first day of the week , when the disciples came together to break bread , paul preached unto them at troas . which shews plainly , that the disciples did use to break bread on the first day of the week , and that those who were disciples did break bread ; which cannot be said of infants , therefore they were not disciples , and consequently not visible church-members . . the same is proved by those arguments which are in the second part of this review , sect . . to prove infants not disciples appointed to be baptized , matth. . . and by the answers to the allegat●ons of mr. cotton , mr. b. and others , sect. , , &c. to prove them disciples . . if in the distributions of the members of the church then , infants are not comprehended , then infants were not visible church-members , this must needs be granted , or exception must be taken to those distributions . but in the distributions of the church , where all sorts of members are expressed , infants are not comprehended ; ergo. the minor is proved from the distributions according to the sex , acts . . & . . men and women , among whom was no infant , for in the former place they are termed believers , in the latter they are said to believe philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god , and the name of jesus christ ; which is not to be said of infants . cor. . . they are distributed into jews or gentiles or greeks , bond or free , but none an infant , as is proved before , in that all were baptized , and did drink the lords cup. the like is gal. . . there is neither jew nor greek , there is neither bond nor free , there is neither male nor female ; for ye are all one in christ jesus : and that is by faith , v. . and therefore no infant meant . col. . . where there is neither greek nor jew , circumcision nor uncircumcision , barbarian , scythian bond nor free ; but christ is all and in all , that is by faith , which is not to be said of infants . to which i may adde , that in tertullians time the children of believers were not accounted actually members of the visible church , because he terms them in his book de anima ▪ c. . designatos sanctitatis , intended to be holy ; that is , to be bred up to profess the faith , and so to be baptized . which is the more apparent , in that hierome expresseth the same as from tertullians bo●k de monogamia , in his epistle to paulinus , tom . d. edit . basil. that the children of believers are termed holy , because they are as it were candidates of the faith . and erasmus in his scholie on that epistle saith , therefore they which are born of christians , are called holy also before baptism , because they do as it were seek and expect baptism . which shews they were not counted actually church-members , but such as were designed to be believers , and so as it were seekers for faith and baptism , and consequently church-members onely in expectation . . i argue from the common received definitions of the visible church . artic. . of the church of england , the visible church of christ is a congregation of faithfull men . in the answer of the assembly to the reasons of the seven dissenting br●thren , p . of the edition . the first praecognitum is this ; the whole church of christ is but one , made up of the collection and aggregation of all who are called out of the world by the preaching of the word , to profess the saith of christ , unto the unity thereof : from which union there ariseth unto every one such a relation unto , and dependance upon the catholick church , as parts have to the whole . dr. john rainold d. concl . the church of christ betokeneth a company called out from among the multitude of other men , to life everlasting through faith in christ jesus . ball , trial of separ . pag. . ch . . the church is a society of the faithfull . hudson , vindic . c. . p. . the universal church is the whole company of visible believers throughout the whole world . ch . . sect . , . the church visible is called entitive , not because of the inward grace , which is essential to an invisible member ; but from the reception and embracing the christian catholick faith , which is essential to a visible believer . mr. b. himself , plain script . &c. part . ch . . the common definition of the church , affirmeth them to be a people called 〈◊〉 of the world . hence i argue , all that are of the visible church christian are faithfull , called out of the world by the preaching of the word to profess the faith of christ , visible believers receiving and embracing the christian catholick faith . this is proved from the definitions of the church ▪ and positions received . and it is clear in reason , the church being an aggregate , as a flock of sheep , a heap of stones ; as it follows therefore every part of the flock is a sheep , every part of the heap a stone , so every part of the church a believer . but no infant is such . ergo. in this very manner doth guliel . apollonii . considerat . controv . cap. . pag. . argue . thus almost all the famous reformed divines do affir● the matter of a visible church to be men outwardly called , professing the faith of christ. for they define it a company of men called out by an outward calling , or preaching of the word , and communication of sacraments , to the worship of god , and to celebrate ecclesiastical society among themselves . to this mr. m. in his defence , part . sect . pag. . saith . i reply , it overthrows it not at all ; for they all include the infants of such professors , as the visible church among the jews did include their infants , male ( and female too , lest you say that circumcision made them members . ) answ. mr. m. should have shewed who , and in what words of their definitions protestant writers include the infants of professors . that some of them , especially of late , have asserted infants of believers to be a part of the visible church , i grant : but i think mr. m. cannot make it good , that the elder protestant writers did include them in their definitions of the visible church . i have produced some of the later , who have so framed their definitions as that infants must be excluded . and if any do include them , they erre from the scripture , which never accounted them visible christian church members , as is proved before . and sect. . of this part of the review doth sufficiently shew the christian church visible to have another call and constitution from the jewish , and that no person is a member of the christian church visible by natural generation of a believer , but by profession of faith . wherefore mr. m. saith . i adde also , baptism now ( as well as circumcision of old ) is a real , though implicite profession of the christian faith . answ. that circumcision was a profession of the christian faith either explicite in elder proselites , or implicit in infants circumcision , doth not appear . the apostles speech gal. . , . and the tenet of the jewish doctors acts . , . is to the contrary . baptism after a verbal profession of faith by the baptised being his act is a real , though implicit profession of the christian faith , it being used by the baptised to declare his putting on christ , and so a signe of his assent to his verbal profession . but infants baptism is no profession of any faith either explicit or implicit , there being no act done by them tending to make any shew of faith , which they neither understand , nor take ●o bee true upon the trust of their teachers , as papists do in their implicit faith ( which yet we d●ny to be christian faith ) but are every way passive , both in respect of the act of the baptisers , and the reason and end of it , they neither do any thing towards their baptism , nor understand any thing of it . yea were it true that such an implicit profession of faith were in infants baptism , yet were it not enough to make them visible members of the christian church , no not according to the definition of protestant writers , who when they define the church to be a company of professors of faith , do mean more then an implicit profession , to wit , an intelligent and free profession ; and do blame the baptising of the indians by the spaniards , forcing them to own the christian faith afore they understand it , though there bee more implicite profession of the faith by them , then is or can be by an infant . . i argue . they are no visible members of the christian church , to whom no note whereby a visible christian church , or church-membership is discernible doth agree . for that which is visible , is discernable to the understanding , by some sensible note or signe by which it is known : but to infants of believers no note whereby a visible church , or church-member is discernable doth agree , ergo. the minor is proved by shewing the right notes of the visible church and church-members not to agree to infants . the right notes of the christian church and church-members are the profession of the whole christian faith , the preaching and hearing of the word , administration and communion in the sacramen●s , joyning in prayer , discipline , &c. with believers . hudson . vindic . pag. . but none of these agree to infants . not profession of of the whole christian faith , for they neither understand nor shew by any thing they do that they assent to the christian faith . not the preaching or hearing of the word : for infants can neither preach nor hear the word . i mean as it is speech or significative language , though they may hear it as a sound , much less as yeilding assent to it , which hearing alone is a mark of a visible church-member . nor do they administer or have communion in the sacraments : none will say they administer , nor though they should be baptised in water by a minister , or eat bread or drink wine at the lords supper , can it be said they have communion in the sacrament . for he onely hath communion in a sacrament , who useth it as a signe of that for which it is appointed , and this use onely is a note of a visible church-member , otherwise a spaniards forcible baptising of an indian without knowledge of christ should make him partaker of the sacrament , or doing it in sport or jest should make a visible church-member . see mr. b. himself correct . sect . . pag. . but infants neither use baptism nor the lords supper as a signe engaging to christ , with acknowledgement or remembrance of him , therefore they have no communion in the sacraments , no not in baptism , nor is their pretended baptism any note of visible church membership . nor do they joyn in prayer ▪ discipline , or any part of christian worship or service , which might shew they own christ as their lord , and therefore they are not discernable to be of the visible church christian by any right note . . by shewing that the notes whereby they are conceived to bee discernable as visible church-members , are not notes of their visible church-membership . two notes are usually alledged , the one the covenant of god , the other the parents profession of faith ; neither shew them visible christian church-members , nor both together . not the covenant or promise of god : for there is no such covenant that promiseth to every believers childe , much less to every professor of faith's childe saving grace , or visible church-membership , and a promise to save indefinitely , not expressing definitely who , is not a note whereby by this or that person is discernable to be the person to whom it belongs . besides , if there were such a promise to every childe of a believer , yet unless it were a promise of it to them in their infancy , it would not prove they were actually visible church members , but onely that in the future they should be . nor is the parents faith a note of the infants visible church membership . for whether it be a note of it self , or conjunctly with the covenant , it is a note of the infants visible church-membership because it is his child , and if so , then it is a note of his child 's visible church-membership at twenty years of age , though he should be then a professed infidel , as well as a day old , a note of an embryo's visible church-membership in the mothers womb , as well as a childe born , which are absurd . other reason then this i know not . but sure i am there is not the least hint in scripture of a childes being discernable to be a visible christian church-member by the parents faith or profession , but to the contrary . to this argument briefly propounded in my examen of his sermon part . sect . mr. m. replies not in his defence , and therefore i see not but it stands good . . i argue . they who have not the form constituting and denominating a visible christian church-member , are not visible christian church-members . this proposition is most sure according to logick rules , take away the form , the thing formed is not ; if the form denominating agree not the denomination agrees not ; scheibler top. c. . de forma stieri . praec . doct . log tract . . c. . but the form constituting and denominating a visible christian church-member , infants have not : ergo. the minor is proved thus . they which have not the outward profession of faith within , have not the form constituting and denominating a visible christian church-member . for profession of faith , is the form constituting and denominating a visible church-member , as is proved from the constant sayings of divines . ames marrow of divinity , first book c. . § . . faith is the form of the church . § . . visibility is the affection or manner of the church , according to its accidental and outward form . § . . the accidental form is visible , because it is no other thing then the outward profession of inward faith , which may easily be perceived by sense . c. . § . . it is a society of believers , for that same thing in profession constitutes the vis●ble church , which in its inward and real nature makes a mystical church , that is faith. ball trial of separat ▪ c. . p. . a lively operative faith maketh a man a true member of the church invisible ; and the profession of faith and holiness a member of the church visible . norton answer to apollon . ● . prop. . pag. an unmoved position . that same thing in profession constitutes the church visible , which in its inward nature constitutes the mystical church , that is faith ▪ hudson . vindic . ch . p. . every visible believer is called a christian , and a member of christs visible kingdom , because ●he form ( viz. visible believing ) common to all christians and all members is found in him . and this may be proved out of scripture , which denominates visible christian church-members from their own profession of fa●th , in respect of which they are termed believers , tim. . . acts . . & . &c. nor is there any such denomination in scripture , or hint of such a form constituting a visible christian church-member or believer as the faith of another , of the parent , church , &c. it is a meer novel device of papists , who count men believers from an implicit assent to what the church holds ; and paedobaptists , who ascribe unto infants faith and repentance implicit in their sureties , the church , their owners , the nation believing , their parents next or remote faith . which is a gross and absurd conceit . for that in profession alone makes visible believers , which makes in reality true believers . but that 's a mans own faith hab. . . not anothers ; therefore a mans own and not anothers profession of faith makes a visible believer . again , the form denominating must be inherent , or in or belong to the person denominated , so as that there is some union of i● to him , but there is no inherence , or union of anothers faith to an infant , ergo. naturally there is none , nor legally ; if there be , ●et him that can , shew by what grant of god it is . infants may have civil right to their parents goods , a natural interest in their mothers milk , parents , and masters may have power over the bodies , labour , &c. of their children and servants , they have no power to convey faith , or ecclesiastical right without their own consent . but this conceit is so ridiculous , that i need spend no more words to refute i● i subsume . infants make no profession of faith , they are onely passive , and do nothing by which they may bee denominated visible christi●ns as experience shews , yea at the font while the faith is confessed by the parent or surety , and the water sprinkled on their faces they cry , and as they are able oppose it , ergo. to this faith mr. m. i answer , even as much as the infants of the jews could do of old , who yet in their dayes were visible members . answ. the infants of the jews were never christian visible church-members , though they were visible members of the jewish church : but mr. m. neither hath proved nor can , that the same thing , to wit natural birth , and jewish descent and dwelling , which denominated the jewish infants visible members of that church , doth denominate a christian visible church-member . and till he do this , the force of the argument remains . . i argue . if infants bee visible christian church-members , then there may be a visible church christian , which consists onely of infants of believers ; for a number of visible members makes a visible church entitive , though not organical . but this is absurd . ergo , infants of believers have not the form of a visible church-member . to this mr. m , saith , i answer , no more now then in the time of the jewish church ; it 's possible , but very improbable , that all the men and women should die , and leave onely infants behinde them . answ. . it is no absurdity to say that of the jewish church which it is absurd to say of the christian : for the jewish church was the people of god of abrahams , or israels house , which they might be , though but infants . but the christian visible church is a people or company that profess faith in christ , which infants cannot do , and therefore it is absurd to imagine that a christian church visible may bee onely of infants of believers , whereof not one is a believer by profes●ion , not so of ths jewish church . . the possibility acknowledged by mr. m. is enough for my purpose , though it never were or should bee so in the event , sith the absurdity followes upon that grant , as well as the actual event . . i argue . if infants be visible christian church-members , then there is some cause thereof . but there is none , ergo. the major is of it self evident , every thing that is hath some cause by which it is . the minor is proved thus . if infants be visible-christian church members , by some cause , then that is the cause of all infants christian visible church-membership or of some onely . but of neither , ergo. i presume it will be said of some , sith they account it a priviledge of believers infants . but to the conttary , there is no such cause by which infants of believers are christian visible church-members . mr. b. plain script . &c. part . . c. . pag. denies that the parents faith is any cause ( not so much as instrumental properly ) of the childes holiness , by which he means visible church-membership , but he makes it a condition ( which is an antecedent or causa sine qua non ) of childrens holiness . i answer , saith he , fully : if this be the question , what is the condition on which god in scripture bestoweth this infant holiness ? it is the actual believing of the parent : for what it is that hath the promise of personal blessings , it is the same that hath the promise of this priviledge to infants : therefore the promise to us being on condition of believing , or of actual faith , it were vain to say , that the promise to our infants is one●y to faith in the habit : the habit is for the act , yet is the habit of necessity for producing of the act : therefore it is both faith in the habit ( or potentia proxima ) and in the act that is necessary . but yet there is no necessity that the act must be presently at the time performed : either in actu procreandi , vel tempore nativitatis , vel baptismatis . it is sufficient that the parent be virtually and dispositively at present a believer , and one that stands in that relation to christ as believers do : to which end it is requisite that he have actually believed formerly ( or else he hath no habit of faith ) and hath not fallen away from christ , but be still in the disposition of his heart a believer , and then the said act will follow in season ; and the relation is permanent which ariseth from the act , and ceaseth not when the act of faith intermitteth . it is not therefore the meer bare profession of faith which god hath made the condition of this gift , but the former act and present disposition . ch. . pag. . the parents faith is the condition for himself and his infants . the causes of this condition of discipleship or churchmembership may improperly be called the causes of our discipleship it self : but properly christ by his law or covenant grant is the onely cause efficient . pag. . all these church mercies are bestowed on the standing gospel grounds of the covenant of grace entred with our first parents presently upon the fall . pag . the seed of the faithful are church members & disciples , and subjects of christ , because they are children of the promise ; god having been pleased to make the promise to the faithfull and their seed . pag. it is of the very law of nature to to have infants to be part of a kingdome , and therefore infants must bee part of christs kingdome . pag. . that infants must be church members is partly natural and partly grounded on the law of grace and faith. so that mr. bs. opinion is , christ by his law of nature , or nations , or covenant grant on the standing gospel grounds of the covenant of grace , the promise to the faithful and their seed not without actual faith , formerly and present disposition , beyond the meer bare profession of faith , is properly the onely cause efficient of infants membership in the visible church christian. against this i argue . . if there be no such covenant of grace to the faithful and their seed , nor any such promise upon condition of the parents actual faith the childe shall be a visible christian churchmember , nor any such law either of nature or nations , or positive , which makes the childe without his consent a visible christian church-member , then mr. bs. opinion of the cause of infants of believers visible christian churchmembership is false . but the antecedent is true , ergo , the consequent . the minor i shall prove by answering all mr. b. hath brought for it , in that which followes . . the covenant of grace according to mr. b. is either absolute or conditional ; the absolute , according to mr. b. is rather a prediction then a covenant , and it is granted to be onely to the elect , in his appendix answer to the th ▪ and th . object . and elsewhere , and by this covenant god promiseth faith to the person , not visible churchmembership upon the faith of another . the conditional covenant is of justification , salvation on condition of faith , and this p●omiseth not visible churchmembership , but saving graces , it promiseth unto all upon condition , and so belongs to all according to mr. b. therefore by it visible churchmembership christian is not conferred as a priviledge peculiar to believers infants on condition of their faith . . if there were a covenant to the faithful and their seed to be their god , yet this would not prove their infants christian visible church membership ; because god may be their god , and yet they not be visible churchmembers , as he is the god of abraham , of infants dying in the womb , of believers at the hour of death , y●t they not now visible churchmembers . . the promise if it did infer visible church membership , yet being to the seed simply , may be true of them though not in infancy , and to the seed indefinitely may be true if any of them be visible church members , especially considering that it cannot be true of the seed universally and at all times , it being certain that many are never visible churchmembers , as ●ll still-born infants of believers ; many that are visible churchmembers for a time , yet fall away ; and therefore if that promise were gran●ed , and the condition and law put , yet infants might not be visible christian churchmembers . . if all these which mr. b. makes the cause , or condition of infants visible church membership may be in act , and the effect not be , then the cause which mr. b. assignes is not sufficient . but the antececedent is true . for the promise , the parents actual believing , the law of nature , of nations , any particular precept of dedicating the childe to god , the act of dedication as in hannahs vow may be afore the childe is born , and yet then the childe is no visible church member , ergo. the consequence rests on that maxime in logick , that the cause being put , the effect is put . to this mr. b. plain script . proof , &c. pag. . moral causes ( and so remote causes ) might have all their being long before the effect , so that when the effect was produced there should bee no alteration in the cause , though yet it hath not produced the effect by the act of causing . i reply this answer deserved a smile . . for mr. b. as his words shew before cited , makes christ by his law or covenant-g●ant , the onely cause efficient , therefore it is the next cause , according to him , and not onely a remote cause . . if the covenant or law bee as much in being or acting , and the parents faith and dedication afore the childe is born as after , and there is no alteration in the cause , though yet it have not produced the effect , then it is made by m. b. a cause in act , and consequently if the effect be not produced then it is not the cause , or the adequate sufficient cause is not assigned by assigning it . . though moral causes may have their absolute being long before the effect , yet not the relative being of causes , for so they are together . so though the covenant and law might be a covenant and law , yet they are not the cause adequate , and in act ( which mr. b. makes them ) without the being of the effect : nor is there in this any difference between moral and physical causes . and for the instances of mr. b. they are not to the purpose . it is true , election , christs death , the covenant , &c. are causes of remission of sins , imputation of righteousness , salvation , before these be , but they are not the adequate causes in act : for there must be a further act of god , forgiving , justifying , delivering , afore these are actually . they are causes of the justificab●lity , the certainty , futurity of justification of themselves , but not of actual justification without mans faith , and gods sentence , which is the next cause . a deed before one's born , gives him title to an inheritance , but not an actual estate without pleading entering upon it , &c. . i think mr. b. is mistaken in making visible churchmembership , the effect of a moral or legal cause . he imagines it to bee a right or priviledge by vertue of a grant or legal donation . but in this he is mistaken , confounding visible church membership with the benefit or right consequent upon it . whereas the churchmembership and it's visibility are states arising from a physical cause rather then a moral , to wit , the call whereby they are made churchmembers , and that act or signe what ever it be , whereby they may appear to bee churchmembers to the understanding of others by mediation of sense . the priviledge or benefit consequent is by a law , covenant , or some donation legal or moral ; not the state it self of visible churchmembership . which i further prove thus . . if visible churchmembership bee antecedent to the interest a person hath in the covenant , then the covenant is not the cause of it ; for if the covenant be the cause it is by the persons interest in it . but visible churchmembership is immediately upon the persons believing professed , which is a condition of his being in covenant ; therefore it is before the covenant , and consequently the covenant not the cause . , if the covenant or law upon condition of the parents faith as the antecedent or cause without which the thing is not , be ( as mr. b. saith ) the cause of infants visible church membership the sole efficient , then infants bought , orphans of turks , &c. wholly at our dispose , are not visible church members : for they have no covenant made to their parents , nor do their parents believe . but by mr. bs. doctrine pag. . where he would have them baptised , they are visible churchmembers , for such onely are to be baptised , ergo , the covenant is not the sole efficient , there may bee visible church membership without it . the same may be said of foundlings , persons of unknown progeny , &c. . if the covenant or law with the parents actual faith without profession , make not the parent a visible churchmember , neither doth it the childe ; for the childe who is by vertue of the parents being a visible churchmember onely , a visible churchmember , cannot be such without his being such . but the parent by the law or covenant is not made upon his faith a visible churchmember without profession , ergo , the parents faith is not the condition on which god bestoweth the infant holiness , nor is it true that the actual believing which hath the promise of personal blessings , is the same that hath the promise of this priviledge to infants . . if persons are visible church members and not by the covenant of grace , then it is not true , that christ by his law , or covenant of grace is the sole efficient of visible churchmembership . the consequence is plain , and needs no further proof . but the antecedent is true , ergo. the minor is proved by instances of judas and other hypocrites , who are visible churchmembers , but not by the covenant of grace , for that promiseth nothing to them . . if infants be visible churchmembers by the covenant on the condition of the parents actual believing ▪ then either the next parents , or any in any generations precedent . if the next onely , let it be shewed , why the visible churchmembership should be limited to it : if in any near g●nerations , let it be shewed where we must stick , and go no further ; why , suppose the visible churchmembership be stopped at the grandfathers faith so as that we must go no further in our count , the great grandfathers faith should not infer the infants visible . church-membership as well as the grandfathers : if there be no limit ; why this visible churchmembership should not be common to all the infants of the jews , yea to ●ll the world . if the succession be broken off upon the jews unbelief , why not upon the unbelief of each ancestor ? . if an infants visible churchmembership be by the covenant , upon the parents actual believing , and not a meer bare profession , then it is a thing that cannot be known , because the parents actual believing is a thing unknown . but that is absurd . ergo. the major i have confirmed more fully in the first part of this review , sect . . . if other christian priviledges be not conveyed by a covenant upon the parents faith without the persons own act or consent , then neither this . but the antecedent is true , the child is not a believer , a disciple , a minister , a son of god , &c. without his own consent , ergo. the consequence of the major is confirmed in that there is like reason for them as for this . . if there be no law or ordinance of god unrepealed , by which either this infant visible christian churchmembership is granted , or the listing of infants , or entring into the visible church christian is made a duty , then that is not a cause of infants visible churchmembership which mr. b. assigns . but there is no such law or ordinance unrepealed , ergo. if there be it is either by precept or other declaration , but by neither ; ergo. if by precept , in the new testament , or the old : not in the new , there is no precept to minister , or paren●s , or any other , to take infants for visible churchmembers , or to list them as such : nor in the old , there is no such precept i know but that of circumcision , which is repealed ; vowing , praying , &c. did neither then , nor now of themselves make visible churchmembers , although upon the prayers and faith , not onely of parents , but of others , god granted remission of sins , conversion , cure of plagues , yet did not these make any visible churchmembers of themselves . if there be any other declaration of god , it is either a positive law , or law of nations , or of nature : not any positive law , if there be , let it be produced , not any law of nations . this mr. b. sometimes alledgeth , that as it is in kingdomes and civil states the children are subjects and citizens as well as the parents , so in the church : but if this were a rule in the church of god , then not onely ●hildren must be visible churchmembers , but also all the inhabitants where the church is servants , and their children , as all in the territories and dominions of a king are his subjects ; and sith christs kingdome is over all the world , yea if mr. bs. doctrine were right in his sermon of judgement , pag. , . all are bought by christs death , and are his own , every man in the world should be a visible churchmember . nor any law of nature : for though mr. b. sometimes pleads this , yet the vanity of it appears , . in that since the fall of man , the nature of man being corrupt , the call and frame of the church is altogether by grace , and free counsel of god. . churches if they should be fashioned after the way or law of nature , where the husband is , there the wife should be a visible churchmember , as well as where the paaent is a churchmember , there the child should be so too . for the law of nature makes them more nearly in one condition then father and child . but that is false , ergo. . if the law of nature should form churchmembers , then churches should be by natural discent : but that is false , it is by calling , as is above proved . . churches are by institution , therefore not by the law of nature . this is proved from mr. bs. own hypothesis , that they are made churchmembers by grant , covenant , gift on condition . . if they were by the law of nature , all churches should be domestical , not congregational or parochial ; for they are not by nature , but by institution . . if churches should be by the law of nature , they should be formed by an invariable uniform way and model : but they are not so ; they are called sometimes by preachers , sometimes immediately by god , sometimes by authority ; sometimes they are national , sometimes catholick ; sometimes under one form of service and discipline , sometimes under another ; sometimes the son is the means of making the father a visible churchmember , sometimes the father the son ; sometimes the wife of the husband , sometimes the husband of the wife , by which the order of nature is inverted . to all these arguments against infants visible christian-churchmembership , this one may be added , that there is neither example , rule , nor hint in all the new testament , of their admission into the church , or ordering in it , or care of the elders and officers of the church for them as members , nor any other sign that christ would have them reckoned as visible members in the christian church : which is a strong presumption against it . i know none that hath disputed for it , so much as mr. b. i will therefore go on to examine what he saith . sect . liii . letters between me and mr. b. are set down concerning the law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , which he asserts , whereby the point is stated . that the reader may understand the true state of the dispute between me and mr. b. he is to take notice , that when at first in the dispute at bewdley , jan. . . mr. b. urged for infant baptism his argument of the ordinance or law or appointment of god , whereby infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church , now printed in his book of baptism , ch . . part . i not knowing what other it might be , and he denying it was that of circumcision , urged him often to tell me what it was , which he would not , which occasioned the dispute to be more confused then otherwise it might have been . after , in my praecursor , i again told him , i found it not but in the peculiar national policy of the jews , no universal law or ordinance for it . to which what elusory reply he made , is shewed in the second part o● this review ▪ sect . . pag , . which moved me , being then upon the examining of his th . and th . ch . from bewdley within two miles of kidderminster ▪ to write and send april d. . this letter to him . sir , not finding yet that law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership which you assert in your book of baptism to be unrepealed , i do request you to set down the particular text or texts of holy scripture where you conceive that law or ordinance is written , and to transmit it to me by this bearer , that your allegations may be considered by him who is yours as is meet ; april . . john tombes . the next morning i received from him this letter , directed to me . sir , i mean to see more said against what i have already written , before i will write any more about infant baptism , without a more pressing call than i yet discern . i have discharged my conscience , and shall leave you and yours to take your course . and indeed i do not understand the sence of your letter , because you so joyn two questions in one , that i know not which of the two it is that you would have me answer to . whether there were any ordinance or law of god that infants should be churchmembers ? is one question : whether this be repealed is another : you joyn both into one . for the first , that infants were churchmembers , as you have not yet denied that i know of , so will i not be so uncharitable as to imagine that you are now about it : and much less that you should have the least doubt whether it were by gods ordination . there are two things considerable in the matter . first , the benefit of churchmembership , with all the consequent priviledges . it is the work of a grant or promise to confer these , and not directly of a precept . secondly , the duty of devoting and dedicating the child to god , and entring it into the covenant which confers the benefit ; and this is the work of a law or precept to constitute this duty i am past doubt that you doubt not of either of these : for you cannot imagine , that any infant had the blessing without a grant or promise , ( that 's impossible ; ) nor that any parents lay under a duty without an obliging law , ( for that 's as impossible . ) taking it therefore for granted that you are resol●ed in both these , and so yeeld that such a grant and precept there was , there remains no question but whether it be repealed : which i have long expected that you should prove . for citing the particular texts in which the ordination is contained , though more may be said then is said , yet i shall think it needless , till i see the ordination contained in those texts which i have already mentioned to you , proved to be reversed . nor do i know that it is of so great use to stand to cite the particular texts , while you confess in general , that such a promise and preeept there is , by vertue of which , infants were till christs time duly members of christs church ( for christs church it was ) even his unive●sal visible church . still remember that i take the word [ law ] not strictly for a precept onely , but largely , as comprehending ●oth promise and precept , and i have already shewed you both and so have others . so much of your endeavour as hath any tendency to the advancement of holiness , i am willing to second yo● in ; viz. that at the age yo● desire people might solemnly profess their acceptance of christ , and their resolution to be 〈◊〉 : but i hope god will find me better work while i must stay here , then to spend my time to prove that no infants of believers are within christs visible church , that is , are no infant disciples , infant christians , infant churchmembers . i know no glory it will bring to christ , nor comfort to man , nor see i now any appearance of truth in it . i bless the lord for the benefits of the baptismal covenant that i enjoyed in infancy , and that i was dedicated so soon to god , and not left wholly in the kingdome and power of the devil . they that despise this mercy , or account it none , or not worth the accepting , may go without it , and take that which they get by their ingratitude . and i once hoped , that much less then such an inundation of direful consequents as our eyes have seen , would have done more for the bringing of you back to stop the doleful breach that you have made . i am fain to spend my time now to endeavour the recovery of some of your opinion who are lately turned quakers , or at least the preventing of others apostacy : which is indeed to prevent the emptying of your churches . which i suppose will be a more acceptable work with you , then again to write against rebaptizing , or for infant-baptism . sir , i remain your imperfect brother , knowing but in part , yet loving the truth ; rich. baxter . being the same day to return home , yet loth to be put off thus , i wrote immediately upon the reading of his letter , this also to him . sir , i confess infants were by gods fact of taking the whole people of the jews for his people , in that estate of the jewish paedagogy ( not by any promise or precept ) visible church members , that is of the congregation of israel . i do not confess that there was any law or ordinance determining it should be so , but onely a fact of god , which is a transeunt thing , and i think it were a foolish undertaking for mee to prove the repeal of a fact . wherefore still i press you that you would shew me where that law , ordinance , statute or decree of god is that is repealeable , that is , which may in congruous sence bee either by a later act said to be repealed , or else to be established as a law for ever . this i never found in your books , nor do i conceive that law is implied in any thing i grant ; and therefore i yet pray you to set me down the particular text or texts of holy scripture where that law is . which need not hinder you from opposing the quakers ( in which i have not and hope shall not be wanting ) of whom i think that you are misinformed that they are anabaptists , i think there are very few of them that were ever baptised , and have good evidence that they have been formerly seekers , as you call them . and i think you do unjustly impute the direfull consequences you speak of to the denial of infant baptism , and to the practise of adult bap●ism , and that as your self are deceived so you mislead others . i yet expect your texts , knowing none in any of your books that mention that law of infants visible churchmembership which you assert either explicitly or implicitly , and am yours as is meet ; bewdley this th . of april . . john tombes . about a fortnight after i received this letter to me from him . sir , if you will needs recall me to this ungrateful work , let me request you to tell me fully , exactly and plainly , what transient fact you mean , which you conceive without law or promise did make church members : that so i may know where the competition lieth . when i know your meaning , i intend , god willing , to send you a speedy answer to your last . your fellow-servant , april . . rich. baxter . upon the receipt whereof , i speedily returned to him , on the day of the date of it , being then at bewdley , this following letter . sir , the transeunt fact of god , whereby infants were visible churchmembers , was plainly exprest in my last to you , to be the taking of the whole people of the jews for his people , which is the expression of moses , deut. . . exod. . . and by it i mean that which is expressed levit. . . . when god said , i have severed you from other people , that you should be mine . the same thing is expressed kings . . isai , . this i term [ fact ] as conceiving it most comprehensive of the many particular acts in many generations , whereby he did accomplish it . following herein stephen , acts . . and nehem ▪ . . i conceive it began when he called abraham out of ur , gen. . . to which succeeded in their times the enlarging of his family , removing of lot , ishmael , the sons of keturah , esau , distinction by circumcision , the birth of isaac , jacob , his leading to padan aram , increase there , removal to canaan , to aegypt , placing , preserving there , and chiefly the bringing of them thence , to which principally the scripture refers this fact , exod. . . levit. . . nehem. . . hos. . . the bringing them into the bond of the covenant at mount sinai , giving them laws , settling their priesthood , tabernacle , army , government , inheritance . by which fact the infants of the israelites were visible churchmembers as being part of the congregation of israel , and in like manner though not with equal right ( for they might be sold away ) were the bought servants or captives , whether infants or of age , though their parents were professed idolaters . and this i said was without promise or precept , meaning such promise or precept as you in your letter say i confess , and you describe , a promise conferring to infants the benefit of churchmembership with all the consequent priviledges , a precept constituting the duty of devoting and dedicating the childe to god , and entering into covenant , which confers the benefit . for though i grant the promises to the natural posterity of abraham , gen. . , , , , . and the covenant made with israel at mount sinai , and deut. . wherein israel avouched god , and a precept of circumcision , and precepts of god by moses of calling the people , and requiring them to enter into covenant , exod. . and deut. . yet no such particular promise concerning infants visible churchmembership , or precept for parents or others , concerning the solemn admission of infants as visible churchmembers , besides circumcision , as in your book of baptism you assert . nor do i conceive that infants of israel were made visible church members by the promises in the covenants or the precepts forenamed , but by gods transeunt fact which i have described . which i therefore term [ transeunt ] because done in time , and so not eternal , and past , and so not in congruous sense repealeable as a law , ordinance , statute , decree , which determines such a thing shall bee for the future , though capable of continuance in the same or the like acts , or of interruption . which continuance or interruption is known by narration of what god hath done , not by any legal revocation , or renewing , or continuance of a promise or precept concerning that thing . now as the churchmembership of the israelites began as i conceive with abrahams call , and was completed when they were brought out of aegypt to god , exod. . . so i conceive it ceased when upon their rejection of christ as was fore●told matth. . . they were broken off from being gods people , which was completed at the destruction of jerusalem , when the temple was destroyed , as christ fore-told luke . , . and instead of the jewish people by the preaching of the gospel confirmed by mighty signes , god gathered to himself a church of another frame in a spiritual way , according to the institution of christ , matth. . , . mark . , . in which he included not infants , the jews themselves were no part of the christian church without repentance and faith in christ professed at least . having now fully , exactly ▪ and plainly told you my meaning as you request , i do now expect your speedy answer to my last , and therein to fulfill my request of setting down the particular texts of holy scripture wherein that law largely taken comprehending promise and precept of infants visible churchmembership , which you assert to be unrepealed , is contained . if you shall in your answer set down wherein the blessing , benefit , and priviledges of infants visible churchmembership , which you assert unrepealed , did consist ; i may better understand you then i do : but i shall press you no further then you shall be willing in this thing . i am , yours as is meet , bewdley , april . . john tombes . on may . . i received this following answer . sir , a probability of doing or receiving good , is to me a call to action . seeing no such probability , i told you at first my purposes to forbear any further debates with you , till you had better answered what is said . in your next you seemed to deal so plainly , as if some small probability of good did yet appear : but in your d. you fly off again and eat your own words , and jumble things in much confusion , so that i now return again to my former thoughts . for you that expresly say and unsay , and contradict your self , are not likely to be brought to a candid management or fair issue of the dispute . you 'l sure think it no great matter to be driven to a self contradiction ( which with others is to lose the cause ) who so easily and expresly run it upon it your self . answ. it was a call sufficient to mr. b. to do what i requested in my first letter , in that a brother and fellow servant ( as he takes me to be ) desired it of him . if he love the truth ▪ as he saith , he should be willing to let us know his scriptures he alledgeth for that which he asserts as a truth . if he conceive himself imperfect , knowing but in part , why should he not be jealous of his own opinion , especially resting on remote consequences , rather then violently oppose mine , which his own acknowledgements do make plainly agreeing with the new testament ? if i were a sophistical adversary , yet i should think it were meet mr. b. should debate that with me which he hath so clamourously and confidently opposed me in . what better answer i need make to what is said then i have done , so far as i have gone ( which is if not the greatest part , yet the chiefest , and indeed for scripture texts all that requires an answer ) i see not . i have set down almost all my antagonists words , in mr. bs. book , at least all that is argumentative and pertinent , with my answers distinctly , fully , and plainly , in the two foregoing parts of this review : and what way any man could take , more candid and agreeing to logick rules , then i have gone in my answers , is yet to me undiscernable . mr. firmin , in his separation examined , pag. . saith thus , i can easily discern mr. tombes to dispute more like a sophister , then a christian , that did desire to see truth : and he cites the words of mr. m. in his defence , pag. . which i have answered so fully in my apology , pag. , . and shewed that very way which mr. m. chargeth me with , to be as contrary to sophistical disputing as light is to darkness , that i had thought impudence it self would not have charged me with that , in a book printed six years after the edition of my apology . mr. simon ford , in his epistle dedicatory to his frivolous scribbled dialogue , chargeth me with railing down rather then disputing , even in that which as he sets it down hath no shew of reviling , but a plain calling a straw a straw . and for my heavy censure , i still profess i know not how to conceive more favourably of paedobaptists , but wish they would search their own hearts impartially . mr. gataker in his letter printed by mr. b. to whom it was written , doubts in part it to be my disposition to braze my forehead , not regarding at all what men deem or say of me , so i may seem to say somewhat , and have the last word ; then which , a more unrighteous conceit could hardly have been entertained by him . mr. bs. printing it , together with other passages , makes me almost hopeless of ever meeting with any just , or candid dealing from paedobaptists . mr. b. here saith , i jumble things in much conf●sion , that i contradict my self , eat my own words ; none of which is true : but he takes on him to prove it thus . in your d. you say [ i confess infants were by gods fact of taking the whole people of the jews for his people , in that estate of the jewish paedagogy , not by any promise or precept , then visible churc●-members , that is , of the congregation of israel ; i do not confess , that there was any law or ordinance determining it should be so , but onely a fact of god , which is a transeunt thing , &c. ] in your d. you say [ for though i grant the promises to the natural posterity of abraham gen. . , , , . and the covenants made with israel at mount sinai , and deut , . wherein israel avouched god , and a precept of circumcision , and precepts of god by moses of calling the people , and requiring of them to enter into covenant , exod. . & deut. . yet no such particular promise concerning infants visible churchmembership , or precept for paren●s or others concerning the solemn admission of infants as visible churchmembers besides circumcision , as in your book of bapt. you assert ] before there was no [ law or ordinance determining it should be so , but onely a fact ] now there are laws or precepts and promises that it should be so , but [ not such as i assert in my book ] and if i should shew you never so many , you may reply , they are not such as i assert in my book , and waste the time in that trial , when it is better for me to see first what you say to that book : for this is but to lead us about to trifling . answ. . there is not a shadow of self contradiction in the latter words to the former . for though the latter acknowledge promises to israel , yet not that by them they were visible churchmembers ; and laws and ordinances , yet not determining they should be visible churchmembers . had mr. b. heeded my words , he had forborn this accusation , if he were not bent to find a knot in a bulrush . . if i should answer as he forebodes , i should answer rightly . and it is certain , that if mr. b. should bring never so many promises , and not shew that they made infants visible churchmembers , as he asserts in his book , he would waste time , and lead us about to trifling ; and therefore it is just i should tie him to that , and his excepting against my so doing would shew his wrangling , and will be taken for a losing of his cause . but i am resolved to follow him , even in his vagaries , and to examine whether it be true which he saith , that i jumble things in much confusion . to make any clear work , saith mr. b. upon the things in question we must necessarily speak to the questions distinctly , many of which you too much confound . the first question in order fit to be resolved is [ whether infants before christs incarnation were churchmembers ? or not ? ] you grant they were : and therefore this is past dispute with us . the d. qu. and tho first unresolved , is [ what church it is that infants were members of ? ] this you give me occasion to take in the way , because you twice explain your meaning , when you confess them churchmembers , by an [ i. e. of the congregation of israel . ] by which you seem to imply two things : first , that none but the infants of the congregation of israel were churchmembers : secondly , that the infants of israel were members of no church but what is convertible with the congregation of israel . ] the d. qu. is ▪ what it is that gives the israelites that denomination of [ the congregation of israel ] of which infants were members . for you jumble both together , both causes civil , and ecclesiastical , and of both those that make to the being and well-being . so that our enquiry must be whether the congregation and the commonwealth be the same thing in your sense ? ] and what constituteth it formally ? for in this you speak in dark ambiguities . the th . qu ▪ is ▪ [ whether there was any law , ordinance , or precept of god concerning mans duty herein , or obliging him to the covenant acceptance and engagement , and so to membership and any promise , grant , or covenant , conferring the right of churchmembership and the consequent priviledges to infants ? ] to this you say both yea and nay , if i can understand you , or at least as to much of the qu. concerning the being , and part of the effect of the precept and promise . yet you conclude , that you [ do not conceive that infants of israel were made ●isible churchmembers by the promises in the covenants , or the precepts fore named , but by gods transeunt fact . ] i will not suspect that you imagine any other promise doth it besides that in the covenant , because your tying the effect to the transeunt fact doth exclude them . here we are cast upon these qus . next . th . qu. [ whether there be such precepts and promises as you grant ( or as i shall prove ) which yet make not infants churchmembers ? ] th . qu. [ whether there be any transeunt fact of god , which without the efficiency of precept or promise did make the infants of israel churchmembers ? ] th . qu. [ whether those which you have assigned be such facts ? ] th . [ which are the texts of scripture that contain or express the said laws , precepts , or grants which i maintain ? ] this you insist upon . th . [ whether such laws , preceps , or grants as i shall prove , are capable of a repeal or revocation ? ] th . qu. [ whether they are actually revoked or repealed ? ] answ. the th . qu. is the onely qu. needfull to be resolved ▪ all the rest are brought in to clog the dispute , to weary me , and the reader , in an indirect way most of them raised out of my words ; in which if i should be mistaken , yet were it not thereby proved , that there is such a law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , as mr. b. asserts . nor by waving of these questions did i jumble things in much confusion , but decline drawing in things impertinent . nevertheless , sith mr. b. hath used these shifts to clog the dispute , i am resolved to prosecute it in his method , having first premon shed the reader , that many things here said are not true , as that i seem to imply that the infants of israel were members of no church but what is convertible with the congregation of israel ; that i jumble both causes civil and ecclesiastical , and of both those that make to the being and well being ; that i say yea and nay to the th . qu. that i tie the effect to the transeunt fact . he adds . before all these qs. are well handled , we should easily be convinced that it had been better either have let all alone , or else , if we must needs have the other bout , at least to have agreed on our terms , and the stating of the questions better before we had begun . and i think that even that is not easie to do . for when i desired your plain exact and full explication of one word [ transeunt fact ] and you tell me you have plainly , fully , and exactly told me your meaning : it falls out , either through the unhappy darkness of my own understanding , or yours , that i know but little more of your mind then i did before , and that you seem to me to have raised more doubts and darkness then you have resolved and dissipated . yet being thus far drawn in , i shall briefly say somewhat to the several qs. not following your desires to answer one alone : which cannot be done to any purpose while the foregoing are unresolved , because it is the clearing up of truth , and not the serving of your present ends in your writings now in hand that i must intend . answ. i affect no more bouts with such a captious wrangler , nor know i any need to dispute so many questions , or to agree on terms ; i shall answer him as i see meet . what he desired i gave him , not onely an explication of one word , but also of the thing , which that it raiseth so many doubts , seems not to be from the darkness of the understanding , but either from the lightness of the fancy , or the bent of the will to find a way to blunt the readers attention ere he comes to the th . qu. which it was just mr. b. should have answered alone , sith otherwise it were an unjust thing for him to put me to prove a repeal of i know not what . his serving me hereby in my present ends of writing had been equal , my ends and writing being onely for the truth : his appear to be for a shift to uphold a while by indirect courses a tottering corruption , which must fall . i follow him . sect . liv. infants were visible churchmembers onely in the congregation of israel . the first question ( saith mr. b. ) being resolved that infants were once churchmembers , to the resolving of the second question , i shall prove these two propositions . . that it was not onely the infants of the congregation of israel that were churchmembers . . the infants of israel were members of the universal visible church , and not onely of that particular congregation . the first i have proved already in my book . and . isaac was a churchmember , yet none of the congregation of israel ; it was not israel till jacobs days . if you say that by the [ congregation of israel ] you mean [ the seed of abraham which had the promise of canaan ] yet . i say , that ishmael and abrahams seed by keturah and esau had none of the promise , and yet were churchmembers in their infancy . [ in isaac shall thy seed be called ] that is that seed which hid the promise of canaan . and so it was confined to jacob , who got the blessing and the birthright , which esau lost , and was excluded , yet was of the church from his infancy . the son of the bond woman was not to be heir with the son of the free-woman , yet was ishmael an infant member . if you say , that by [ the congregation of israel ] you mean all the natural seed of abraham : i add . the children of his bond men born in his family , or bought with money , were none of abrahams natural seed , and yet were churchmembers in their infancy . if you go yet further , and say , that by [ the congregation of israel ] you mean all that were at the absolute dispose of abraham or his successors , and so were his own : i add . the i●fants of free proselyt●s were none such , and yet were churchmembers . if you yet go further , and say , that you mean by [ the congregation of israel ] any that came under the government of abraham or his successors : then i add . that the sichemites , gen. . were not to come under jacobs government , but to be his allies and neighbours , being so many more in number then jacob , that they concluded rather that his cattel and substance should be theirs ; yet were they circumcised every male , and so were made members of the visible professing church . for it was not the bare external sign that jacob or his sons would perswade them to , without the thing signified : for the reproach that they mentioned of giving their daughter to the uncircumcised ; was not in the defect of the external abcision ; for so moses own son , and all the israelites in the wilderness should have been under the same reproach , and all the females continually : but it was in that they were not in covenant with the same god , and did not profess to worship the same god in his true way of worship as they did . and therefore as baptizing is not indeed and in scripture sence baptizing , if it be not used for engagement to god , even into his name ; so circumcision is not indeed and in scripture sence circumcision , unless it be used as an engaging sign , and they be circumcised to god. answ. by [ the congregation of israel ] i meant the same with the hebrew people , or house of abraham ▪ which i termed the congregation of israel by an anticipation usual in scripture ; as when , gen. . . it is said that abraham removed unto a mountain on the east of bethel , though it were not so named till jacobs time , gen. . . which term i the rather chose , because it is most frequent in scripture ; and i remember not the phrase any where [ the church or congregation of abraham , but of israel ] in scripture , the phrase of which i thought best to use . now taking the congregation of israel for the hebrew people or the house of abraham , i say , the infants onely of the congregation of israel , as i say here , sect. . by birth property , or proselytism were visible churchmembers . nor is it any thing against this my tenet , that the sichemites infants , gen. . were visible churchmembers ; for they were circumcised as consenting to become one people with them as is expressed v. , . and therefore of the congregation of israel . so that what ever were the reason of the reproach , v. . what ever were the ends of jacobs sons or the sichemites , how ever the fact is to be construed , or it be to be judged that they were circumcised or not , yet that instance proves not visible churchmembership of infants any where but in the congregation of israel , sith the sichemites if they were truly circumcised , and so visible churchmembers , it was because they were by agreement one people , and so of the congregation of israel . mr. b. adds . . it was then the duty of all the nations round about ( if not of all the nations on earth , that could have information of the jewish religion ) to engage themselves and their children to god by circumcision . that all that would have any alliance and commerce with the jewes must do it , is commonly confessed : that it must extend to infants , the case of the sichemites ( though deceitfully drawn to it by some of jacobs sons ) doth shew , and so doth the jewish practice which they were to imitate : that the same engagement to the same god is the duty of all the world , is commonly acknowledged , though divines are not agreed whether the distant nations were obliged to use circumcision the jewish sign . the best of the jews were zealous to make proselytes , and no doubt but the very law of nature did teach them to do their best for the salvation of others . to think such charitable and holy works unlawfull , is to think it evil to do the greatest good . and if they must perswade the neighbour nations to come in to god by coven●nt engagement , they must perswade them to bring their children with them , and to devote ●hem to god as well as th●mselves . for the jews knew no other covenanting or engaging to god. as the sichemites must do , so other nations must do : for what priviledge had the children of the sichemites above the rest of the world ? answ. this argument in form would be thus . if it were the duty of all the nations round about to engage themselves and their children to god by circumcision , then it was not onely the infants of the congregation of israel that were church members . but the antecedent is true , ergo the consequent . of this argument i deny the consequence of the major , and the minor also . i deny the consequence , because they that did engage themselves and children to god by circumcision , did thereby ingraff themselves and children into the congregation of israel . i deny also the minor . for though i acknowledge it was the duty of all the world to engage themselves to god by covenanting to take him for their god , yet i do not conceive that they were all bound to do it by circumcision . for i conceive that precept given onely to the hebrews or house of abraham . in whi●h i am confirmed , in that i finde not that sem , melchisedeck , lot , job , ever did so or are blamed for not doing it . it is most certain that cornelius , though a man that feared god with all his house , yet was neither he nor his house circumcised , acts . . & . . and yet accepted of god. it is true , if any would keep the passeover , and be admitted to the rites of the tabernacle , he was to be circumcised with his males : but they might devote and engage themselves and children to god without it , nor was it necessary that god should be their god in covenant or to their salvation that they were circumcised , or joyned to the people of the jews . i confess it was of much moment to reduce the nations , and to preserve them from the idolatry that defi●ed the world , to be of that people : for generally the uncircumcised who were aliens from the commonwealth of israel , were without god in the world , without christ , without hope aliens from the covenants of promise ; and therefore it was a good office to endeavour to bring the nations to god by circumcision , and a desirable advantagious thing , as it is now to be in a well ordered fixed church , yet i cannot say it is or was necessary for all , either as a duty or means of salvation to do either . mr. b. goes on . . ●n hesters time many of the people became jews hest. . . who yet were not under their government . and to be jewes is to be of the jewish profession . and it ●s well known that this was to be circumcised , they and their little ones ( as the proselytes were ) and so to keep the law of moses . answ. though they were not under the jewes government in respect of all power and command , yet they were incorporated into the jewish people , and were under their government as far as other jews by birth were , having some exercise and liberty of using their own lawes , though with subjection also to the persian princes . i confess their being jews was by circumcising of them and their males , but hereby is not proved that any infants were visible churchmembers but in the congregation of israel , but rather the contrary . sith they were become jews , that is of the congregation of israel . . saith mr. b. the scattered and captivated jews themselves were from under the government of abrahams successors , and yet were to circumcise their children as churchmembers . answ. though they were from under the government of abrahams successor in respect of all power and command , yet they were under their government so far , as they were permitted the exercise of the mosaick lawes , and were of the congregation of israel , and were circumcised as members thereof ; and therefore no infants yet proved visible church-members out of that congregation . . saith mr. b. when jonas preached to ninive , it was all the race of man among them , without exception , from the greatest to the least , that was to fast and joyn in the humiliation : ergo , all , even infants as well as others , were to partake of the remission . if you say , the beasts were to fast too : i answer , as they were capable in their kinde of part of the curse , so were they of part of the benefit , but their capacity was not as mans : they fasted to manifest mans humiliation . and if by the humiliation of the aged the beasts sped the better in their kinde , no wonder if infants sped the better in theirs , and according to their capacities , and that was to have a remission suitable to their sin . answ. all this is quite from the business , for it proves not that either the aged or the infants were visible churchmembers out of the congregation of israel . if the fasting prove the visible churchmembership , it proves the visible churchmembership of the beasts as well as the infant-men . if the repentance bee alledged to prove it , i hardly think such a sudden quickly past repentance will prove any of them visible churchmembers of christ , any more then the mariners prayer , fear , sacrificing , making vowes , jonah . . . if it do , yet it proves onely the aged who turned from their evil way , jonah . . to be visible churchmembers ; there 's no proof yet of an infants visible churchmembership out of the congregation of israel . . saith mr. b. what i have said of sem and many others , and their posterity already ▪ i shall not here again repeat : and more will be said anon to the following questions . answ. what is said shall be answered in its place . mr. b. goes on thus . the d . proposition to be proved is , that [ the israelites children were members of the universal visible church of christ as well as of the congregation of israel ] but this you did heretofore acknowledge , and therefore i suppose will not now deny . i suppose it past controversie between us ; . that christ had then a church on earth . as abraham saw christs day and rejoyced , and moses suffered the reproach of christ , heb. . . and the prophets enquired of the salvation by christ , and searched diligently , and prophesied of the grace to come , and it was the spirit of christ which was in those prophets signifying the time , and testifying before hand the sufferings of christ , and the glory that should follow , pet. . , . so were they part of the church of christ , and members of the body of christ ▪ and given for the edification of that body : though it was revealed to them that the higher privigledes of the church after the comming of christ , were not for them but for us , pet. . . . i suppose it agreed on also between us , that there was no true church or ecclesiastical worshipping society appointed by god in all the world since the fall , but the church of christ , and therefore either infants were members of christs church , or of no church of gods institution . moses church and christs church according to gods institution were not two , but one church . for moses was christs usher , and his ceremonies were an obscurer gospel to lead men to christ : and though the foolish jewes by mis-understanding them made a separation , and made moses disciples to bee separate from christs disciples , and so set up the alone [ shadowes of things to come , yet the body is all of christ ] col. . . and by so doing they violated gods institution , and unchurcht themselves . . i suppose it agreed also , that christs church is but one , and that even those of all ages that are not at once visible , yet make up one body . . and that therefore whoever is a member of any particular church is a member of the universal . ( though the church was more eminently called catholike , when the wall of separation was taken down . ) but i remember i have proved this in my book , part . . chap. . and therefore shall say no more now . answ. i grant as i did heretofore , that the israelites children were members of the universal visible church of christ , as well as of the congregation of israel , or rather in that they were of the congregation of israel , nor do i deny that christ had then a church on earth , nor that there was no true church , or ecclesiastical worshipping society appointed by god in all the world since the fall but the church of christ. but as for the third , though i grant that christs invisible church is but one by unity of the same spirit and faith , and that the visible church is but one in some respect , namely in respect of the profession o● the same faith and hope in christ : yet they are not so one , as that whoever is a visible member of one particular church , is a member of each particular church ; and though i yeild that whoever is a member of any particular church is a member of the universal , yet it follows not , which is it that mr. b. drives at , and vainly talks of his proving it elsewhere , as will be shewed hereafter ) that every one who was a member of the universal church , in that he was a member of the jewish church particular , was a visible member of every particular visible church of christ ; nor that every one that was a member of the universal church , in that hee was a member of a visible particular church of christ , was a visible member of the jewish particular church . as for instance , cornelius and his house who feared god , acts . . were visible members of that particular church of his house , and so of the universal , yet were not visible members of the particular church jewish , as may bee proved from their uncircumcision and shunning as unclean by the jews , acts . & . . the reason is manifest : for the universal hath not a distinct existence from the parts , nor is any part existing in another part , because it is part of the whole , as the finger is not in every part of the body because it is in the body , in that it is in the hand , which is a part . and therefore mr. bs. arguing ( which he confides so much in , part . . ch . . of plain script . &c. ) will appear to be vain ; that because infants were visible members of the church universal , in that they were of the church jewish , therefore they are in the christian , properly so called , contradistinct to the jewish . which speech i use , as commonly divines do , because though the jewish church were christs church , yet the appellation of christians being not afore the dayes of the apostles acts . . we may fitly say the church in the wilderness was not the christian properly so called , that is , which is gathered out of the nations by the apostles preaching , nor moses in the christian church , nor cornelius in the jewish church , as aegypt though in africa , and persia though in asia , yet are not said to be in asia the less , or africa propria . mr. b. proceeds . concerning the matter of the third qu. i assert that [ it was not onely of the jewes commonwealth that infants were members of , but of the church distinct from it . ] this is proved sufficiently in what is said before . ] answ. as yet i do not finde it proved , that the jewish church was distinct from the commonwealth , or that there was any member of the church who was not of the commonwealth . what is said about it , sect . . may be there seen by the reader . moreover , saith mr. b. . infants were churchmembers in abrahams family before circumcision , and after when it was no commonwealth . so they were in isaacs , jacobs , &c. answ. abrahams family , and isaacs , and jacobs , were a common-wealth , although they were but small ; they had government within themselves . abraham had his trained servants and made war of himself , gen. . . isaac made a league as a prince co●ordinate , gen. . . so did jacob , gen. . . these with other acts shew they were an independent commonwealth . . saith mr. b. the banished , captivated , scattered jews , that ceased to bee members of their commonwealth , yet ceased not to bee of the church . answ. they were then of the commonwealth of the jews , as they were of the church , both de jure , and de facto , they acknowledging themselves to be of that people , and to a●here to their laws , although somewhat restrained of their liberty , as a captivated , imprisoned king or subject is head or member of that republique to which he hath not access . . saith mr. b. the people of the land , that became jews in hesters time , joyned not themselves to their commonwealth : nor the sichemites . answ. the contrary is true ▪ as concerning the sichemites is shewed before . . saith he , many proselytes never joyned themselves to their commonwealth . answ. those proselytes were not of the jewish church visible members . . saith he , the children of abraham by keturah , when they were removed from his family were not unchurched ; and yet were no members of the jewes commonwealth . but i shall take up with what is said for this already , undertaking more largely to manifest it , when i perceive it necessary and useful . answ. abrahams children by keturah , when out of the common-wealth of the hebrews were unchurched , at least , in respect of the church of the hebrews ; nor do i conceive mr. bs. larger manifestation of the contrary , will be any thing but more words without proof . sect . lv. infants of the jewes were not visible churchmembers , by promise , or precept ; as mr. b. teacheth . mr. b. proceeds . to the th . qu. i assert that [ . there was a law or precept of god obliging the parents to enter their children into covenant with god , by accepting his favour , and re-engaging and devoting them to god , and so entering them solemnly churchmembers . ] and [ . there was a covenant , promise or grant of god , by which he offered the church-membership of some infants and actually conferred it , where his offer was accepted . ] i should have mentioned this first , and therefore will begin with the proof of this . by these terme ▪ covenant , promise , grant , or deed of gift , &c. we understand that which is common to all these , viz. [ a s●gne of gods will conferring or confirming a right to or in some benefit ] such as we commonly call a civil act of collation as distinct from a mere physical act of disposal . i call it [ a signe of gods will de jure ] because that is the general nature of all his legal moral acts ▪ they are all signal determinations de debiro ▪ of some due . . i say conferring or confirming right to some benefit ] to d●fference it from precepts which onely determine what shall be due from us to god , and from threatnings , which determine what punishment shall be due from god to us . answ. that which mr. b. asserts here , is in opposition to what i said in my d . le●ter ; i confess infants were by gods fact of taki●g the whole people of the jews for his people , in that estate of the jewish paedagogy ( not by any promise or precept ) visible churchmembers , that is of the congregation of israel ▪ and in my d. i explai● my self , a promise conferri●g infants the benefit of churchmembership , with all the consequent priviledges , a precept constituting the duty of devoting and dedicating the child to god , and entring into covenant , which confers the benefit ( which were his own words in his first letter ) so that if we prove by any other gr●nt or deed of gift , physical or moral , which is not a promise of it , by which it is conferred , or by any law which is not such a pr●cept , he contradicts not my speech , and so disputes not ad idem . which whether he do or no , will be perceived by examining what follows . having thus , saith he , explained the terms , i prove the proposition . if infants churchmembership with the priviledges thereof were a benefit conferred , which some had right to or in , then was there some grant , covenant , or promise , by which this right was conferred : but the antecedent is most certain : ergo , so is the consequent . i suppose you will not deny that it was a benefit to be the covenanted people of god ▪ to have the lord engaged to bee their god , and to take them for his people ▪ to bee brought so near him , and to bee separated from the common and unclean , from the world , and from the strangers to the covenant of promises , that live as without god in the world , and without hope . answ. i do not deny it , but i deny that this is to be visible church-members formally , or connexively . for men may be visible church-members , and yet not have all this benefit , and they may have all this benefit who are not visible churchmembers . hypocrites may be visible churchmembers , yet not be gods covenanted people to have the lord engaged to be their god , and to take them for his people , to be brought so near him , &c. and some believing saints that are dumb , may have all this , and yet not be visible churchmembers . mr. b. adds , if it were asked what benefit had the circumcision ? i suppose you would say , much every way . answ. i should , but i would add ; that to bee the circumcision is not all one as to be visible churchmembers : cornelius and his house were visible churchmembers yet not the circumcision : nor were the benefits mentioned rom. . . conferred to them as visible church-members , ( for then all visible churchmembers had been partakers of the same benefits , they had had the oracles of god committed to them , the giving the law , christ from them after the flesh , &c. rom. . , . which is raise ) but as to a people specially loved and gratified with these priviledges . he adds . if infant-churchmembership were no benefit , then they that had it , were not ( when they came to age or their parents in the mean time ) obliged to any thankfulness for it . but they were obliged to be thankful for it . ergo , it was a benefit . answ. visible churchmembership simply notes onely a state , by which was a benefit . by the infant visible jewish churchmembership was a benefit of honour and special dignity above other people , which god then vouchsafed to the jews , and do●h not so now to infants of believing christians as such , and for it the jew parents and children were to be thankful . he goes on . the next thing in the antecedent to be proved is , that there was a right conferred to this benefit , and some had a right in it . and . if any had the benefit , then had they right to or in that benefit : but some had the benefit , ergo. the consequence of the major is certain . . because the very nature of the benefit consisteth in a right to further benefits . . if any had the benefit of church-membership , covenant-interest , &c. without right ; then they had it with gods consent and approbation or without it . not with it : for hee is just , and consenteth not that any have that which hee hath not some right to or in , not without it : for no man can have a benefit from god against his will , or without it . . if no infants had duely and rightfully received this benefit , god would have somewhere reprehended the usurpation and abuse of his ordinances or benefits . but that hee doth not as to this case , ergo. . god hath expressed this right in many texts of scripture , of which more afterward . answ. mr. b. is guilty of that which he chargeth me with unjustly , jumbling things together which are to be distinguished , visible churchmembership , right to or of visible churchmembership , to the benefits of it , duly and rightfully receiving of it . the infants of the jews were visible churchmembers , not by a legal right to it , antecedent to their being such visible churchmembers , which they or any for them might claim as due ; nor was it capable of duly and rightfully being received or usurped : for it was nothing but a state of appearing to be part of that people , who were in appearance from things sensible , gods people ; and this they had by gods fact of making them to be a part of that people visibly , to wit , his forming them and bringing them into the world , and placing them so as to be ranked among his visible people , and known by things obvious to sense to be of this people , from which this state results without any such receiving as may be denominated duly or rightfully done or usurped . yet i grant they had a right in it , that is , they had it by gods donation , without any usurpation by them or any other ; and they had right to the benefit consequent , as to the honour and esteem and dignity absolutely , and to other benefits , if there were any other annexed to it , whether absolutely or conditionally . yet to the proofs of mr. b. i say , . that it seems to me not true , that the nature of the benefit of infants visible churchmembership consisteth in a right to further benefits . . that if it were true , yet i see not how it proves this consequence , if any had the benefit , then they had ri●ht to or in that benefit . a man may have a benefit without right , though the nature , or as i would speak , the condition of it be such as to draw with it a right to further benefits ; as a man may have a lordship without right , which gives him a right to further benefits . . that mr. b. jumbles together churchmembershi● , covenant interest , &c. whereas a person may have no interest in gods covenant , who is a visible churchmember ; and he ma● have interest in gods covenant , who is no visible churchmember . . his speech , god is just , and consenteth not that any have that which he hath not some right to or in , as the words seem to import , is not right . for . they intimate a● if visible church-membership were given out of distributive justice , which gives to every man his own . but this i conceive to be very erroneous . for as regeneration , so also visible churchmembership are of bounty by god as soveraign lord , nor of distributive justice by god as a judge . . that all that any man hath from god , he hath of debt , contrary to the apostle , rom. . . . that visible churchmembership is conceived as a thing offered , and to be duly and rightfully received , or to be attained by usurpation and abuse of gods ordinances or benefits . but this i understand not how it is according to mr. bs. doctrine . . he conceives visible churchmembership distinct from circumcision . what ordinance is there then which may be abused by receiving visible church-membership ? . the visible churchmembership of infants among the jews , doth not to me appear to be a thing tendered or offered by god upon condition of parents faith , and to be accepted or refused : but to be a state resu●ting from gods fact forementioned without such offer . . what is in the scriptures after expressed , shall be viewed in it's place . mr. b. adds ▪ i am next to prove the consequence , that [ this right was coferred by some grant , promise , or covenant of god. ] and this is as easie as to prove that the world was made by gods power and efficiency or will ; or to prove that god is the owner of all things , and no man can receive them but by his gift . . if there be no other way possible for right to be conveyed from god to us , but onely by his grant , promise , or covenamt , ( which we call donation , and is a moral civil action , ) then it is by this means that it is conveyed . but there is no other possible way of such conveyance : ergo. we have no right till god give us right . his will signified createth our right no man can have right to that which is wholly and absolutely anothers , but by his consent or will. this will is no way known ▪ but by some signs of it . these signs of such a will for conveyance of right to a benefit , are a civil moral action , called a donation or gift simply . if the sign be in writing , we commonly call it a deed of gift . if it be by word of mouth , conferring a present right , we call it a verbal grant or gift . if it confer onely a future right ▪ we call it a promise , and sometimes a covenant ; and sometimes the word covenant signifieth both , that act which gives a present right , and promiseth the continuance of it . right being a moral or civil thing , can be no way conveyed but by a moral or civil action . a gift that was never given , is a contradiction . so that this part of our controversie is as easie as whether two and two be four . answ. visible churchmembership is not a right , but a state of being ; as to be healthy , strong , rich , &c. which are not given by a civil moral action , but by providence of god acting physically , as the soveraign disposer of all . it is certain , that it is by gods will , as all things are ; but this will is no otherways signified then by the event , as conversion and many other gifts of god are . my meaning is , though these things are by vertue of gods will , and are signified in the general by some declaration of gods purpose and order by which he acts , which may b● called his covenant ; yet in the particulars , i mean for the persons , time , &c. there is not any covenant that assures these persons conversion or visible churchmembership , or that estates infants in either of those benefits as their right by vertue of gods promise as the sole efficient of it , upon that condition mr. b. asserts , that is , the parents faith , as i have proved before , sect. . i deny therefore that there is such a promise of god as conferred infants visible churchmembership upon ●he parents faith . and to mr. bs. argument i say , that though it be easie to prove that visible churchmembership is by gods donation , or grant ; yet to argue therefore it must be by a promise , such as mr. b. asserts , follows not , it being no good argument which is drawn affirmatively from the genus to the species , it must be by gods gift or grant , ergo b● promise . yea , according to mr. b. here a promise confers onely a future right , and therefore it doth not make actually visible church-members without some further act , and therefore not the promise or covenant of god is the next adequate cause of it , but some other act of god , and consequently there is another poss●ble yea manifest way , without the promise of it upon condition of parents faith , which mr. b. asserts . but mr. b. saith . . god hath expresly called that act a covenant or promise by which he conveyeth this right : which we shall more fully manifest anon when we come to it . answ. these a●e but words , as will appear by that which followes . the d . proposition , saith mr. b. to be proved , is , that [ there was a law or precept of god ob●iging the parents to enter their children into covenant and churchmembership , by accepting of his offer , and re-engaging them to god. ] and this is as obvious and easie as the former . but first i shall in a word here also explain the terms . the word [ law ] is sometimes taken more largely , and unfitly , as comprehending the very immanent acts or the nature of god , considered without any sign to represent it to the creature . so many call gods nature or purposes the eternal law : which indeed is no law , nor can be fitly so called . . it is taken properly for [ an authoritative determination de debito constituendo vel confirmando . ] and so it comprehendeth all that may fitly be called a law . some define it , [ jussum ma●estatis obligan● aut ad obedientiam aut ad paenam . ] but this leaves out the praemiant part , and some others : so that of grotius doth , est regula actionum moralium obligans ad id quod rectum est . i acquiesce in the first , or rather in this , which is more full and exact ; [ a law is a sign of the rectors will constituting or confirming right or dueness . ] that it be a sign of the rectors will de debito constituendo vel confirmando , is the general nature of all laws . some quarrel at the word [ sign ] because it is logical and not political : as if politicians should not speak logically as well as other men ! there is a two-fold due ; . what is due from us to god ( or any rector ; ) and this is signified in the precept and prohibition , ( or in the precept de agendo & non agendo . ) . what shall be due to us ; and this is signified by promises , or the praemiant part of the law , and by laws for distribution and determination of proprieties . all benefits are given us by god in a double relation , both as rector and benefactor : or as benefactor regens ; or as rector benefaciens : though among men that stand not in such a subordination to one another as we do to god , they may be received from a meer benefactor without any regent interest therein . the first laws do ever constitute the debitum or right : afterward there may be renewed laws and precepts to urge men to obey the former , or to do the same thing : and the end of these is either fullier to acquaint the subject with the former , or to revive the memory of them , or to excite to the obedience of them : and these do not properly constitute duty , because it was constituted before ; but the nature and power of the act is the same with that which doth constitute it , and therefore doth confirm the constitution , and again oblige us to what we were obliged to before . for obligations to one and the same duty may be mul●iplied . . some take the word [ law ] in so restrained a sence as to exclude verbal or particular precepts , especially directed but to one ; or a few men ; and will onely call that a law which is witten , or at least a well known custome obliging a whole society in a stated way . these be the most eminent sort of laws : but to say that the rest are no laws , is vain and groundless , against the true general definition of a law , and justly rejected by the wisest politicians . that which we are now to enquire after , is a precept , or the commanding part of a law , which is [ a sign of gods will obliging us to duty , ] of which signs there are materially several sorts , as . by a voice , that 's evidently of god : . by writing : . by visible works or effects : . by secret impresses , as by inspiration , which is a law onely to him that hath them . answ. mr. b. undertook to explain the terms , and he onely , and that unnecessarily and tediously , explains one term , to wit [ law , ] which was not the term in my letter , to which his proposition was to be opposed , but the word [ precept ; ] whereas he should have explained what he meant by the parents entring their children into covenant and churchmembership , and what offer he meant they were to accept , and how , and how they were to engage them to god , and how this entring , accepting , re-engaging did confer the benefit of visible church-membership to their children , and what precept it is that is unrepealed distinct from the precept of circvmcision , which i presume he doth not hold unrepealed . all these were necessary to have been distinctly set down , that i might have known his meaning , and thereby have known whether his assertion opposeth my position , and whether he prove it or not . but that the reader may the better perceive where the point to be proved lies , i shall set down distinctly what i conceive mr. b. means , and then what i assert , and what mr. b. should prove in opposition to my assertion . . i conceive he imagines an offer of god to parents , which he calls a promise or covenant , that upon their taking him to be their god , he would be a god to their children , even their infants . . that parents are and were bound to accept of this offer for their children . . that by it they do enter them into covenant , that is , they do covenant for them that they shall be gods people , and consequently they partake of the covenant that god is their god. . that by vertue of this entring into covenant , accepting , and re-engaging them to god , they are visible churchmenbers . i assert . there is no such offer , promise , or covenant . . that though there are precepts for parents to pray for their children , to breed them up for god by example , teaching , &c. yet they are not bound to believe this ; that upon their own faith god will take their infant children to be his , and he will be a god to them , nor to accept of this pretended offer , sith there is no such promise or offer . . that though parents may enter into covenant for their children , that is , they may do it as those , deut. . . either by charge and adjuration , or by wishing a curse to them if they did not cleave to god , as nehem. . . josh. . . and this may have an obligation on them beyond the precept , and influence on them as a motive , as the oath to the gibeonites , josh. . . yet by this their entring into covenant for them , they do not make them partakers of the covenant or promise that god wil be their god. . that if there were such a promise , and such a duty of accepting the pretended offer , and re-engaging ; yet this neither did then , nor doth now make infants visible churchmembers . so that the point between us is , whether there be such a precept to parents besides circumcision , of entring into covenant , accepting an offer of god to be their god for their children according to a promise that he will be so , and re-engaging them to god , whereby they become actually visible churchmembers ? this mr. b. affirms , i deny . he speaks thus . having thus opened the terms [ law and precept , ] i prove the proposition thus . . if it was the duty of the israelites to accept gods offered mercy for their children , to engage and devote them to him in covenant , then there was a law or precept which made this their duty , and obliged them to it . but it was a duty : ergo , there was such a law or precept . for the antecedent , . if it were not a duty , then it was either a sin , or a neutral indifferent action : but it was not a sin , ( for . it was against no law , . it is not reprehended ; ) nor was it indifferent , for it was of a moral nature , and ergo either good or evil , yea sin or duty : for properly permittere is no act of law , ( though many say it is , ) but a suspension of an act : and so licitum is not moraliter bonum , but onely non malum ; and ergo is not properly within the verge of morality . . if there be a penalty ( and a most terrible penalty ) annexed for the non-performance , then it was a duty : but such a penalty was annexed ( as shall anon be particularly shewed ) even to be cut off from his people , to be put to death , &c. if it oblige ad panam , it did first oblige ad obedientiam : for no law obligeth ad paenam , but for disobedience , which presupposeth an obligation to obedience . . if it were not the israelites duty to enter their children into gods covenant and church , then it would have been none of their sin to have omitted or refused so to do : but it would have been their great and hainous sin to have omitted or refused it ; ergo. now to the consequence of the major . there is no duty but what is made by some law or precept as it 's proper efficient cause or foundation : ergo , if it be a duty , there was certainly some law or precept that made it such . among men we say , that a benefit obligeth to gratitude , though there were no law : but the meaning is , if there were no humane law , and that is because the law of god in nature requireth man to be just and thankfull . if there were no law of god natural or positive that did constitute it or oblige us to it , there could be no duty . . there is no duty but what is made such by gods signified will , ergo , no duty but what is made such by a law or precept . for a precept is the sign of gods will obliging to duty . . where there is no law there is no transgression , rom. . . ergo , where there is no law there is no duty ; for these are contraries : it is a duty not to transgress the law , and a transgression not to perform the duty which it requireth of us . there is no apparent ground of exception , but in case of covenants . whether a man may not oblige himself to a duty meerly by his consent ? i answer , . he may oblige himself to an act , which he must perform , or else prove unfaithfull and dishonest : but his own obligation makes it not strictly a duty : ergo , when god makes a covenant with man , he is as it were obliged in point of fidelity , but not of duty . . he that obligeth himself to an act by promise , doth occasion an obligation to duty from god , because god hath obliged men to keep their promises . . so far as a man may be said to be his own ruler , so far may he be said to oblige himself to duty , ( that is duty to himself , though the act be for the benefit of another : ) but then he may as fitly be said to make a law to himself , or command himself : so that still the duty ( such as it is ) hath an answerable command . so that i may well conclude , that there is a law , because there is a duty . for nothing but a law could cause that duty , nor make that omission of it a sin . where there is no law , sin is not imputed , rom. . . but the omission of entring infan●s into covenant with god before christs incarnation would have been a sin imputed ; ergo , there was a law commanding it . . if it was a duty to dedicate infants to god , or enter them into covenant with him , then either by gods will , or without it : certainly not without it . if by gods will , then either by his will revealed , or unrevealed . his unrevealed will cannot oblige ; for there wants promulgation , which is necessary to obligation : and no man can be bound to know gods unrevealed will , unless remotely , as it may be long of himself that it is not to him revealed . if it be gods revealed will that must thus oblige , then there was some sign by which it was revealed . and if there were a sign revealing gods will obliging us to duty , then there was a law , for this is the very nature of the preceptive part of a law , ( which is the principal part , ) so that you may as well say , that you are a reasonable creature , but not a man , as say that men were obliged to duty by gods revealed will , but yet not by a law or precept . . we shall anon produce the law or precept , and put it out of doubt that there was such a thing . in the mean time i must confess , i do not remember that ever i was put to dispute a point that carrieth more of it 's own evidence to shame the gain-sayer . and if you can gather disciples even among the godly , by perswading them that there were duties without precepts or laws , and benefits without donations , covenants , or promise confirming them , then despair of nothing for the time to come : you may perswade them that there is a son without a father , or any relation without it's foundation , or effect without it's cause , and never doubt but the same men will believe you , while you have the same interest in them , and use the same artifice in putting off your conceits . answ. this tedious unnecessary discourse i have set together , lest it should be said i omitted it because i could not answer it , though i might have well done it , and granted him his conclusion without any revocation of what i had written to him . for his conclusion is , that there was a law or precept to the israelites to accept of gods offered mercy for their children to engage and devote them to him in covenant , which i never denied , onely i denied that this was any other then circumcision , or that this conferred the benefit , that is , made them visible church-members , or that this mercy , as he calls it , was offered by a covenant to be a god to believers and their seed , or that parents did by their act enter the children into covenant , that is , gods covenant to be their god , or covenant to god , in proper speech whereby they covenanted to be his people . and for the first , it seems to me , . that mr. b. can produce no other law or precept binding the israelites to this duty besides that of circumcision , because he neither here nor elsewhere that i know of produceth any other . . that he means no other by two passages in this discourse ; . because he saith there was a most terrible penalty annexed to this law obliging israelites for non-performance ( as shall be anon particularly shewed ) even to be cut off from his people , to be put to death , &c. which he neither shews to be any other , nor do i think he could mean any other then that of circumcision : . he saith , the omission of entring infants into covenant with god before christs incarnation , would have been a sin imputed ; his limiting it to the time before christs incarnation , intimates he meant it of circumcision . . that he deals like as if he meant deceitfully , in putting off the naming the law or precept to another place , which it had been requisite for the answerer and reader to have found here , that it might be discerned what law he meant . and for the d . i say , if he could prove or produce that or any other law or precept ; yet if he did not prove that thereby the infants were made visible churchmembers , he proves not the contradictory to my writing . the other two points belong to the two foregoing and following questions . as for his confession , though his injurious insinuations of me are so frequent and so frivolous , that i could pass by them as the hissing of a goose , or the snarling of a curre ; yet because his speeches do much wrong the truth and way of god through my sides , i judge it fit to reply , . that i see not reason to be ashamed of my assertion , but mr. b. hath cause to be ashamed of his own heedlesness , and misrepresentation of my assertion , and roving from the point he should prove . . that i gather no disciples to my self ; but endeavour to reform the abuse of infant baptism , and to restore the right use of christian baptism , according to the plain appointment of christ in scripture , and practice of his apostles . . that he that will be perswaded by mr. b. that infants are disciples meant matth. . . and that in gen. . . & . . is a law or ordinance of god for infants visible churchmembership , will believe any thing that he saith . . that were it not for the opinion he hath obtained of godliness by his book of rest , the esteem he hath gained by his writings for the ministery , and the advantage they have by his book of baptism to maintain their practice and station , it were not likely so vain a book would be esteemed among schollers . . that were it not for the affrightments of mr. b. through his calumnies and slanders , as if ranters , quakers , and all sorts of errours and sects sprang from antipaedobaptism , godly tender conscienc'd persons durst not maintain as they do so gross a corruption as their baby sprinkling is , nor neglect so great and fundamental a duty as baptism is according to the scripture . but the lord will judge betweene us . i proceede . the th qu. saith mr. b. requireth me to lay down this assertion , that [ there is no law or precept of god which doth not oblige to duty ; and no actual promise or donation , which doth not confer the benefit . ] this i aver on occasion of your last letter , where in contradiction to the former , you confess [ the promises to the na●ural posterity of abraham , gen. . and the covenants made with israel at mount sinai , and deut. . and a precept of c●rcumcision , and precepts of god by moses , of calli●g the people , and requiring them to enter into covenant , exod. . deut. . ] yet you [ do not conceive that the infants of israel were made visible churchmemb●rs by the promises in the covenants , o● the precepts forenamed . ] if so , then either you imagine that among all those precepts and promises there was yet no promise or covenant that gave them the benefit of churchmembership , or precept concerning their entrance into that state ; or else you imagine that such promises were made , but did not actually confer the benefit , and such precepts were made , but did not actually oblige . your words are so ambiguous in this , that they signifie nothing of your mind to any that knows it not some other way . for when you say [ there is no such particular promise concerning in●an●s visible church-membership , or precept , &c. besides circumcision , as in my book of baptism i assert , ] who knows whether that exception of [ circumcision ] be a concession of such a precept or promise in the case of circumcision ? or if not , what sense it hath ? and what you imagine that precept or promise to be which i assert ? and before the sence of y●ur one syllable [ such ] is discerned by trying it by a whole volume , i doubt you will make what your list of it . however , if you should mean , that such precepts there are as have for their subject [ the avouching god to be their god , the entring into covenant circumcision ] of infants , but not their churchmembership ; then . i have proved the contrary to the negative before ; . and more shall do anon ; . and it 's a palpable contradiction to the precedent affirmative . but if you mean that churchmembership of infants as well as others is the subject or part of the subject of those promises or precepts and yet that infants were not made or confirmed thereby ; it is the contrary that i am asserting , and i have no further need to prove , then by shewing the contradiction of your opinion to it self for an actual covenant or promise that doth not give right to the benefit promised ( according to it●s tenour and terms , ) is like a cause that hath no effect , a father that did never generate , and it 's all one as to say , a gift or covenant which is no gift or covenant , seeing the name is denied , when the thing named and defined is granted . so a precept or law to enter infants solemnly into churchmembership , which yet obligeth none so to enter them , is as gross a contradiction as to say , the sun hath not heat or light , and yet is truly a sun. answ. i grant his assertion , that there is no precept of god which doth not oblige to duty , nor donation which doth not confer the benefit ; though sundry things which have the title of gods lawes oblige not to duty , and an actual promise doth not put the thing promised in present being as the next cause , but the thing promised is thereby onely made future , yea a promise that it shall be doth suppose it not to be , and that there is something else the next and immediate cause of its actual being . the imagined contradiction in my later to my former letter , is before cleared not to be so sect. . though i have said enough before in this and other fore going sections , yet to take away all colour of charging me with ambiguity , . i acknowledge that the covenant at mount sinai ▪ and the covenant deut. . did declare the people of the jews to be gods people , or his visible church , in that the covenant was mutual , and open between them and god. . that they were gods visible church not barely by gods promise to them to be their god , but by their promise to god : gods call of them made them his church , their promise to god with o●her acts made them visibly so . . the promises of god gen. . did not of themselves make the house of abraham gods visible church . . the call of god , and such acts as whereby he separated them from others to bee his ( which were many ) made the house of abraham gods church . the infants were members of that church , in that they were part of that peop●e . . such things as whereby they were visibly of that people , their birth , cohabitation , &c. did make them visible churchmembers . . circumcision was one sign not by its●lf but with other things , whereby the male infants and adult were known to be of gods visible church . . no promise of god , nor duty of parents did make the infants actually visible churchmembers , as the next cause in act either formal or efficient . if mr. b. or any reader will heed these passages , with what goes before , hee may easily discern my minde , and acquit me from self-contradiction , if not i think it in vain for me to use more words . i pass on to that which follows . sect . lvi . that the people , and thereby the infants of the hebrews , were made visible churchmembers by a transeunt fact , is made good against mr : bs. exceptions . i come next ( saith mr. b. ) to the th . qu. whether indeed there be any transeunt fact , which without the causation of any promise or precept , did make the israelites infants churchmembers . this you affirm ( if you would be understood ; ) whether this your ground of infants churchmembership or mine be righter , i hope will be no hard matter for another man ( of common capacity ) to discern . by a [ transeunt fact ] thus set as contradistinct to a law , precept , or promise , either you mean the act of legislation and promise making , or some other merely physical act . if the former , it is too ridiculous to be used in a serious business : for you should not put things in competition excluding the one , where they both must necessarily concur , the one standing in a subordination to the other . was there ever a law or covenant made in the world any other way ●hen by a transeunt fact ? sure all legislation is by some signification of the soveraigns will. and the making of that sign is a transeunt fact . if it be by voice is not that transient ? if by writing is not the act transeunt ? if by creation it self , the act is transeunt though the effect bee permament . and certainly if legislation or promising be your transeunt fact , you do very absurdly put it in opposition to a law ( or promise ) it being the making of such a law . and the legislation doth no way oblige the subject , but by the law so made : nor doth the making of a promise , grant or covenant , confer right to the benefit which is the subject of of it , any otherwise then as it is the making of that grant which shall so conferre it . as the making of a knife doth not cut , but the knife made : and so of other instruments . so that if the law oblige not , or the grant confer not , certainly the legislation or promise-making cannot do it . i cannot therefore imagine that this is your sense , without charging you with too great absurdity . as if you should say , it is not the will of the testator , i. e. his testament , that enti●leth the legatary to the legacy , but it is the rranseunt fact of the testator in making that will : or it is not the soveraigns commission that authorizeth a judge , souldier , &c. but it is the transeunt fact of writing or making that commission . it is not the sign that signifieth , but the transeunt fact of making that sign . were not this a contemptible arguing ? to charge you with this were to make you tantùm non ununreasonable . and yet i know not what to say to you , that is , how to understand you . for if you mean a mere physical transient fact , which is no such legislation or promise-making , then it is far more absurd then the former . for if it be not a signe of gods will obliging to duty , or conferring benefit , then can it not so oblige to duty , nor confer benefits . it is no other transeunt fact but legislation that can oblige a subject to duty , nor any other transeunt fact but promise , or other donation , that can convey right to a benefit , or oblige the promiser . a moral or civil effect must bee produced by a moral or civil action , and not by a mere physical action ; which is unfit to produce such an alien effect , and can go no higher then it●s own kinde . what sense therefore i should put on your words , without making them appear unreasonable , even much below the rates of ordinary rational peoples discourse , i cannot tell . for to say , it is not a law but legislation , is all one as to say , it is not the fundamentum , but the laying of that foundation that causeth the relation , or from which it doth result . and to say it is an alien physical act , which hath no such thing as right for us subject or terminus , is to confound physick and morals , and to speak the grossest absurdities ; as to say that the transient fact of eating , drinking , going , building , &c. do adopt such an one to be your heir . i must needs think therefore , till you have better cleared your self , that you have here quit your self as ill , and forsaken and delivered up your cause , as palpably as ever i knew man do , without an express confession that it is naught . when men must bee taught by this obtuse subtilty to prove that infants churchmembership needed no revocation , forsooth [ because their churchmembership was not caused by a law , precept , promise or covenant , but by a transeunt fact ] then which as you leave it , the world hath scarce heard a more incoherent dream . but i pray you remember in your reply that you being the affirmer of this , must prove it . which i shall expect , when you can prove that you can generate a man by spitting or blowing your nose , or by plowing and sowing can produce kings and emperours . answ. i make not the jews infants visible churchmembers by bare legislation or promise-making , but by the transeunt fact described in my letters , which was without promise or precept , that is promise of it on condition of the parents faith , or precept of accepting that offered mercy , entering into covenant , and re-ingaging them to god , which are the promise and precept mr. b , derives their visible church-membership from . infants were visible churchmembers among the jewes , in that they were visibly a part of that people , who were gods church . so that to visible churchmembership was requisite , . that god should make that people h●s church , this he did by the transeunt fact described . . that the infants should be visibly a part of that people , this he did by their bringing into the world , ranking them among his people , so as that they were discernable by their birth , nursing , circumcision , habitation , genealogy , and such other signes , to bee part of that church . their visible churchmembership imports a state of visibility in the relations , . of a part to the whole , . of a people that are gods , that is . separated from other people , . called and taken or brought to god. these things are done by various acts , which i conceive i did fitly call a transeunt fact . a physical and moral cause are thus described by scheibler , metaphys . lib. . c. . tit . . topic. c. . tit . . stierius part . gen metaph. c. . a physical or natural cause , is that which truly flows into the effect , and nextly reacheth it by its activity . a moral cause , is that which doth not flow into the effect so as to reach to it , yet so behaves himself , that the effect may be imputed to him to praise or dispraise , reward or punishment . such are causes applying the agent to the patient , counselling , commanding , perswading exhorting , instigating , meriting , permitting when they might and should binder , &c. visible churchmembership is not as mr. b. conceives it , formally a right to a benefit , or a benefit , though it may be so consecutively , or they may follow on it . but it is a complex term , noting a state with a dou●le relation and imports a natural effect or term of action , as well , if not more then a moral , and is from physical as well as moral causes ; and in infants visible churchmembership , i judge it altogether an effect of a physical cause , as not knowing any moral action of god or man that makes them such ; though to the visible churchmembership of the people or body of which they are a part acts physical and moral do concur : which i shall clear in answering mr. bs. exceptions to my last letter to him . as for his outcries of grossest absurdities , incoherent dreams , unreasonable even much below the rates of ordinary rational peoples discourse , contemptible arguing , obtuse subtility , contradictions , palpable forsaking and delivering up my cause , generating a man by spitting or blowing my nose , with the rest of his canine scoptical rhetorick , i pass by it as being of ill savour , hoping mr. b. will in time come to better consideration of his writings , and either shew me my errour , or discern his own . mr. b. goes on thus . in consideration of the th . qu. i shall consider the nature and effect of the transient fact which you here describe . and first of the reason of that name . you say that you call it [ transeunt ] [ because done in time and so not eternal , and past and so not in congruous sense repealeable as a law , ordinance , statute , decree , which determines such a thing shall be for the future . ] and do you think this the common sense of the word ? or a fit reason of your application of it to the thing in hand . answ. i do . . saith mr. b. i think your intellection and volition are immanent acts , and yet not eternal . answ. yet all gods immanent acts ( of whom i spake ) are eternal . we use , saith he , to contradistinguish transient acts from immanent , and that because they do transire in subjectum extraneum . answ. so do i. but it seems you take them here as distinct from permanent . answ. yea and immanent too . but use your sence as long as we understand it . answ. with your good leave then i may use this term , if you understand it , if not i must alter it . . saith mr. b. if it be onely [ past ] actions which you call [ transeunt ] it seems your long fact which was so many hundred years in doing , was no transeunt fact till the end of all those years ▪ and so did not ( by your own doctrine ) make any churchmembers till the end of those years . answ. it doth but seem so : the truth is , in this long fact each particular act was a transeunt fact in each year , and in each age and space of time in which those acts were done , churchmembers were made by one or more of those and other acts used by god to that end , and yet the transeunt fact not so fully accomplished , but that there was an addition till that people came to thei● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or full stature , in which respect i comprehended all those many acts which i set down under the name of a transeunt fact , which i hope when he understands it , mr. b. will give me leave to do . . saith he ▪ but sir the question is not , whether it were a transeunt fact that laid the foundation by legislation or promise making ; but whether the effect were trasient , or the act as it is in patien●e : whether the law were transeunt which was made by a transeunt fact ? and whether the moral action of that law were permanent or transient ? it being most certainly such a moral act that must produce a title , or constitute a duty . gods writing the ten commandements in stone was a fact soon past , but the law was not soon past , nor the moral act of that law , viz. obligation . there are verbal laws , that have no real permanent sign : and yet the law may be permanent , and the obligation permanent , because the sign may have a permanency in esse cognito , and so the signifying vertue may remain by the help of memory , though the word did vanish in the speaking . answ. the question between us is , whether the infants of the jews were made visible churchmembers by a promise of god to be the god of believers and their seed , and a precept obliging the parents to accept of this mercy offered for their children , and to enter them into covenant ; or by the transeunt fact i describe . the questions which mr. b. here sets down , so far as i understand them , are no questions between us : and therefore this exception is but roving from the matter in hand . . saith he , when you come to point out this transient fact individually , you say [ it is gods taking the whole people of the jews for his people , ] which you term [ fact ] as conceiving it most comprehensive of the many particular acts in many generations whereby he did accomplish it . ] . i did not well understand before that [ a fact ] did so vastly differ from on [ act , ] as to contain the acts ( rather then the facts ) of many generations . answ. though i think in use there is some difference , that act is applied to the particular actions , fact to them as they amount to some thing brought to pass by them ; yet if there were no such difference , me thinks if mr. b. had not been minded to multiply exceptions unnecessarily , he might have allowed me to use a term ( which in disputes is frequent ) for my purpose especially sith he understands it . . saith he , this is a long fact according to your measure , even from abrahams call out of ur : but how long it seems you are not well agreed with your self . for in the first part of your letter you enumerate to the other acts that compose this fact [ the bringing them into the bond of the covenant at mount sinai , giving them laws , setling their priesthood , tabernacle , army , government inheritance : ] but before you end , you change yo●r mind , and say [ the churchmembership of the israelites began as i conceive with abrahams call , and was compleated when they were brought out of aegypt to god. exod. . . ] but sure that was long before the setling their inheritance . your fact according to your last account was about yeares in doing ; but according to your first opinion , it was about years long . answ. in my first and last account there is no change of my mind . i did conceive , that the taking the whole people of the jews for his people was compleated when they were brought out of aegypt to god , exod. . . as christ said it is finished , john . . and yet more was to be done , because the chief or hardest thing then was done which would draw after it all the rest . as after the great battel at arbella , alexanders conquest might be said to be finished , though more were after to be done . i never meant to limit the fact to the time of their bringing out of aegypt to god , but included all other additionals , though it were the main , and which brought along with it the rest . . saith mr. b. if it were one individual fact of about years long that made infants churchmembers , then they could not be churchmembers till that fact was past : for the effect is not before the cause , or causality of the efficient ; the relation cannot be before the fundamentum be laid : and it seems this long fact was the laying of the fundamentum : but the consequent is certainly false ; for infants were churchmembers before the end or compleating of your long fact : for they were churchmembers ( you 'l grant ) when ishmael and isaac were circumcised . ergo , it was not this long fact that made them churchmembers . answ. i said i termed gods taking the people of the jews a fact , as a collective term , comprehensive of the many particular acts in many generations whereby he did accomplish it . by which it may easily be perceived , that i did not make the fact an individual action , for i called it many acts , nor did mean that the churchmembership was not till all the acts were past , but that it was accomplished by them , that is , they were brought to full stature and growth as a formed people and commonwealth : as we say a child is a man accomplished when he is brought to the years of a man , and yet he is a man before . and i answer to mr. bs. argument taken from my words ; that when i drew out the fact so long , and said , by it the infants were visible churchmembers as a part of the congregation of israel , my meaning was , that respectively as the congregation of israel were made a church by that fact , so were the infants members . by the call out of ur , whereby god separated abraham and his house from other people , the congregation of israel began to be gods church , and if there had been infants they had been visible churchmembers ; but they were not a compleated church till they were brought out of aegypt to god , exod. . . nor infants members of a church compleated till then when they were become a great nation , and were formed into a theocratical commonwealth . and being thus rightly understood ( as my words imported ) i said nothing which infers the absurdity of putting the effect afore the case , nor the putting off infants visible churchmembership till the end of years . . saith he , if you mean that it was not the whole , but some part of this long fact that actually made infants churchmembers , then you would have assigned that part , when that was the thing desired , and which you pretended exactly to perform ; or at least you would not have told us it comprehended all these acts . answ. i did exactly tell mr. b. in my letter , it began with the call of abraham out of ur ; and when i told him that the fact comprehended all those acts , yet i added for explication , [ whereby it was accomplished or compleated . ] . saith he , and if each particular act did make infants church-members , or lay a sufficient ground of it , then it seems that it was done before the institution of circumcision . for gods calling abraham out of ur was before it . so that the children born in his house must be churchmembers upon that ; and a sufficient ground laid for his own to have been such , if he had then had a natural issue : and it seems then that ishmael was born a churchmember many years before circumcision . answ. i grant all this , . saith he , if this be your meaning , i pray you be so just and impartial as to accept of the proof which i shall give you of infants churchmembership before abrahams days , if i make it appear to be as strong as this call of abraham from ur. answ. i shall . . saith he , if you should mean that some one of these comprehended acts should of it self make any infants churchmembers , then it must be any one ; for you no more assign it to one of them then to another , ( onely say [ chiefly the bringing them from aegypt : ] but surely some of these acts particularly ●annot do it , as the leading to padan aram , the removal to canaan , to aegypt , placing , preserving ther● , setling their army , &c. did any one of these make infants to become churchmembers ? answ. no : but i did assign it to one of them more then to another , to wit , the beginning to abrams call , the accomplishing to the bringing of them out of aegypt to god , exod. . . saith he , nay , suppose you mean that all these acts must concur to make them members , ( and so that they were no members till many hundred years after the institution of circumcision , ) yet could not your doctrine hold good : for some of these acts are of an alien nature , and no more apt to cause infant churchmembership , then a bull to generate a bird ▪ what aptitude hath the setling of an army to be any part of the causation of infants church-membership ? none , i think ; at least if it be such an army as ours : for surely the setling of ours caused no such thing , as you well know . what aptitude hath the leading to padan aram , or removal to aegypt , to make infants churchmembers ? nay , how strange is it , that the removing of churchmembers , and such as had been infant churchmembers , as ishmael , keturahs children , esau , must cause infant churchmembership ? sure it was no cause of their own . keturahs children were churchmembers in infancy : i enquire of you by what act they were made such ? you say [ by gods fact of taking the whole people of the jews for his people ] whereof the act of removing keturahs children was a part . very good . it seems then that removing from the congregation of israel a people of the jews , is a taking of the removed to be of that people : or else it is not onely the taking that people , but also the removal from that people that maketh churchmembers , even the removed as well as the taken , both which are alike absurd . answ. . i mean not as mr. b. supposeth i might . . the setling of the army had remotely causation of infants churchmembership , for by it the israelites were a well formed congregation , church , or commonwealth , and by which the infants were a part , which is their church-membership . . i know that our army hath done so much for the setling of the church , as that the antiprelatists congregations had been either none , or much oppressed , i● they had not broken the force of the opposite party . nor dare i be so unthankfull to god , or them , as not to acknowledge the great mercy and benefit we at this day enjoy thereby , however mr. b. fret at our liberty , and jibe at the instruments . . the leading to padan aram , removal to aegypt , were acts of providence wherby jacobs house were encreased and preserved , which i conceive were some of those acts whereby he made them a people to himself . . ishmaels , keturahs children's , esau's removal , were some acts whereby the congregation of israel became gods severed , or a peculiar people . . keturahs children were visible churchmembers while they were part of abrahams house , called after the people of the jews , by gods taking of the people of the jews , and consequently them as a part ; and yet the removal of them was after one act whereby the people of the jews were made to god a severed people from them ; and consequently their infants churchmembers . distinguish the times and the different state of things and intentions of god in his providences , and these seeming incoherences will be found consistent . . saith he , and i pray you tell me yet a little better , how an act can make a man a churchmember that was one long before that was done ? you cannot here say , that it was before in esse morali , and had a moral causation . how then could your chiefest act ▪ the bringing out of aegypt , make those infants churchmembers that were born in aegypt , and were churchmembers before ? or how could it be any part of the cause ? did the bringing out of aegypt concur to make moses a churchmember when he was in the basket on the waters ? and when you answer this , you may do well to go a little f●r●her , and tell me , how such an act concurreth to make him an infant church-member that was dead an hunded or two hundred years before that act was done . for example , how did the setling of the israelites army , or inheritance , or the covenant on mount sinai , make ishmael , or esau , or isaac , or jacob churchmembers ? answ. the infants of israel were churchmembers in that they were a part of the congregation or people af israel , which was a fluent body , and was taken to be gods church by a succession of acts , whereof some were causes which began , some continued , some compleated , and the several acts made the churchmembers of that age , yet all by vertue of the first call of abraham , whereby god declared his intention to make his house a nation , and his church , first more obscurely , then more clearly . the bringing out of aegypt tended to make the israelites a severed people , and consequently all that were churchmembers were by that act such ; the setling of the army , inheritance , covenant at mount sinai , tended to make them a well formed people , and to the accomplishment of the taking the jews to be gods people , and consequently the infan●s to be churchmembers which came after them . which if so understood , there is nothing in my conceit which infers the making that a cause which is after the effect . . saith mr. b. i desire you also to tell me by the next , what be the nerves and ligaments that tie all these acts of years at least together , so as to make them one fact ? and whether i may not as groundedly make a fact sufficient for this purpose of the acts of an hundred or two hundred years onely ? and whether you may not as well make all the acts from abrahams call till christ to be one fact , and assign it to this office ? answ. . these acts are knit together into one fact by the unity of end designed and work accomplished , as the many acts of several ages did make one fact , of which the poet speaks , tantae molis erat romanam condere gentem , to raise the roman empire . . you might , if god had so contrived it , and brought the thing to pass in that time which he did in a longer . . i may make all the acts from abrahams call till christs towards the hebrews , one fact of making the jews his people , and assign it to this office rightly , onely using the word fact or making , as it comprehends not onely the beginning , and increasing , and compleating of that people ; but also the continuation , recovery from captivity , and preservation of that people . . saith mr. b. you say that you call this fact [ transeunt ] because it's [ past , ] ( and so till it 's [ past ] it seems isaac and jacob that were dead before ; are no churchmembers ; ) i would then fain know whether it be this same transeunt fact , or some other , that makes infants churchmembers five hundred years after it is past ? if it be this same , then how comes a meer transeunt fact to work effectually so many hundred years after it is past ? unless it made a law or covenant which doth the deed ? if it be a new transeunt fact that must make infants churchmembers after the compleating of this ( the setling their inheritances ; ) then i pray you let me know , whether it be one fact exercised on the whole nation in gross , or must it be a fact upon every infant member individually ? if on the nation , remember to tell us what it was ; and do not onely tell us the cause of the membership of former infants . and seeing it must be such as the membership of every infant till christs time at least must be caused by , i pray you remember to make your work s●uare and full , and be sure to assign us no other kind of fact , then what you will prove to have been so frequently repeated in every age , and so fully extensive to every infant among the jews , as that it have no gaps but may make all members that were so in each age . and remember , that it is no law , precept , promise , or covenant that you must assign for the cause ; for that 's it you are engaged against : but a constant succession of transeunt facts extending to each individual member . o what work have you made your self ? and what a sort of new political doctrine shall we have from you , when these things are accomplished according to the frame you have begun ? such as i believe the sun never saw , nor the wisest lawyer in england ever read before ? which makes me the less marvel that so many of your opinion are so m●ch against the lawyers ; for i dare say they will be but few of them for you , if these be your grounds , or at least not for these your grounds . answ. i call the whole transeunt fact past , because it consists of many transeunt acts , which are past being done : but i do not limit the being of churchmembers to the entire transeunt fact , as if none were churchmembers till each act was past which i set down ; but the accomplishing or compleating the congregation of israel to either all or the chief of the later acts . that which made isaac and jacob churchmembers , was the transeunt fact or acts of gods providence in their age , whereby they became to be part of abrahams house , which god by his call of abram , setting up his worship in it , and other ways had made his church . the same transeunt fact in kind , though not individual , which made isaac and jacob churchmembers in their age , made infants visible churchmembers in the several ages till christs time ; to wit , the continuance of the jews to be gods people , in the continuing his ordinances , laws , worship , &c. among them : and each infant was made a visible churchmember by such transeunt fact in each age renewed and repeated , by which the infant was made and known to be a part of that people , which what it is hath been often before said , and shewed not to be by such covenant and precept as mr. b. asserts . all which was plainly expressed in my letter , ( and is such work as i need not be ashamed of , ) without any new political doctrine or law , as mr. b. imagines , it being cleared by the history of the bible , and other histories which set down this fact of god : and if mr. b. or any lawyer gainsay this , they gainsay the plain narration of the bible . his foolish exclamations i let pass , as shewing nothing but his own inconsiderateness and vanity . that many of my opinion are against the lawyers , is more then i know ; they know well that i honour their profession and study , though i do no whit flatter them in their injurious and covetous practises : nor do i doubt but conscionable and understanding lawyers will be for me upon my grounds , as soon as other men , if they peruse my writings with love to the truth ; and so would all godly learned divines also , if it were not for prejudice , and some other partial affection . but i must attend on mr. b. . saith he , but all this yet is but a light velitation : the principal thing that i would enquire into , is , what your great comprehensive fact is in the true nature of it , which you call [ gods taking the whole people of the jews to be his people . ] doth the word [ taking ] signifie a meer physical taking or fact ; or a moral ; such as among men we call , a civil action ? if it be a meer physical taking , then . it cannot produce a moral effect , such as that in question is . . and then it must have an answerable object , which must be individual existent persons . . and then you cannot call it one fact , but many thousand : even as many as there were persons taken in to the jews in above four hundred years . . and then what was the physical act which is called gods taking ? was it such a taking as the angel used to lot , that carried him out of sodome ; or as the apocryphal author mentions of habakkuk , that was taken by the hair of the head , and carried by the angel into another countrey , to bring daniel a mess of pottage ? if god must by a physical apprehension take hold of them that he makes churchmembers , we shall be at a loss for our proof of their churchmembership . but i cannot imagine that this is your sence . but what is it then ? is it a physical action though a moral causation of some physical effect ? that it cannot be : for it is a political or moral effect that we enquire a●●er . it necessarily remains therefore that this be a political-moral taking that you here speak of . and if so , then the transeunt fact you speak of must needs be a civil or political action . and what that can be , which is no law , promise , or covenant in this case , i pray you bestow some more diligence to inform us , and not put us off with the raw name of a transeunt fact opposed to these ▪ certainly , if it be a civil or legal action , the product or effect of it is jus or debitum , some due or right : and that is either . a dueness of somewhat from us , ( which is either somewhat to be done , or somewhat to be given ; ) . or a dueness of something to us , which is either of good or evil : if good , it is either by contract or donation ( whether by a testament praemiant law , or the like : ) if evil , it is either by some penal law , or voluntary agreement : now which of these is it that your transeunt fact produceth ? to be a member of the church , is to be a member of a society taking god in christ to be their god , and taken by him for his special people . the act which makes each member , is of the same nature with that which makes the society . the relation then essentially containe●h . a right to the great benefits of gods soveraignty over men , christs headship , and that favour , protection , provision , and other blessings , which are due from such a powerfull and gracious soveraign to such subjects , and from such a head to his members : as also a right to to my station in the body , and to the inseparable benefits thereof . . it containeth my debt of obedience to god in christ , acknowledged and promised actually or virtually , really or reputatively . now for the first , how can god be related to me as my god , or christ as my saviour , and i to him as one that have such right to him and his blessings , by any other way then his own free gift ? this gift must be some signification of his will : for his secret will is not a gift , but a purpose of giving . this way of giving therefore is by a civil or moral action , which is a signifying of the donors will ; and can be by no way , but either pure donation , contract , testament , or law . in our case it must needs partake of the nature all these . it is not from one in any equality , nor capable of any obliging compensation or retribution from us . being therefore from an absolute dis-engaged benefactor , it must needs be by pure donation , or it cannot be ours . yet as he is pleased as it were to oblige himself by promise , or by his word , and also to call us to a voluntary acceptance , and engagement to certain fidelity , gratitude and duty , and so is the stipulator , and we the promisers in the latter part of the action : it is therefore justly called a contract or covenant , though indeed the word [ covenant ] frequently signifieth gods own promise alone . as it proceedeth from the death of the testator ( in natural moral-reputative being , ) so it is called a testament . and as it is an act of a ruling benefactor ▪ giving this benefit to the governed , to promote the ends of government , and obliging to duty thereby , so it partaketh of the nature of a law . the commonest scripture name for this act , is gods covenant or promise , and sometimes his gift ; which all signifie the same thing here . it follows therefore , that either by gods [ taking israel to be his people ] you mean some civil political action , as a covenant , promise , or the like collation of the benefit , ( and then you assert the thing which you deny , ) or else you know not what you mean , nor can make another know it , without the discovery of the grossest absurdity . and as for the other thing which is contained in churchmembership , the professed duty of man to god , it is most certain . that gods law obligeth us to that duty : . and obligeth all according to their capacities to consent to the obligation , and so to re-engage themselves : . that this actual consent professed doth therefore double the obligation . and thus by a mutual contract , covenant or consent ( whereof our part is first required by a law , ) is the relation of churchmembership contracted . now to lay by and deny all this , and give us the general naked name of [ taking for gods people , ] is meerly delusory , seeing that [ taking ] means this which you exclude , or it means nothing that 's true and reasonable . and therefore tell us better what it means . answ. all before being but a velitation or light skirmish , i looked here for some great battel : but i find it nothing but a rallying together the forces scattered before , there being not one thing i know of in this passage , but what was set down before , and is answered . i have distinctly shewed how moral and physical acts concur to the visible churchmembership of the people , of which infants are a part , and natural to that visible churchmembership which the jews infants had , and what they were , both in my letter , and in this answer . what m. b. replies , is vain . . it is not true that the effect in question is a moral , it is at least in infants meerly a physical effect ; their churchmembership is not by any act which reacheth not to the effect . . the taking is of individual p●rsons existent . . by many particular acts , yet in a good sence before given , summed up into one transeunt fact . . the physical acts are none of those m. b. frivolously imagines , but such as are mentioned in the scripture , and declared in my letter . it is not true that a meer physical taking cannot produce a moral effect : for supposing the spirit should inspire faith immediately without any preaching , the eff●ct would be moral , though produced by a meer physical taking or act . . the transeunt fact i set down doth not exclude , but did expresly include in my letter both covenants single and mutual , and laws , and precepts ; yet ( as i have said before ) it doth exclude that promise of mr. bs. of gods being a god to believers and their seed , and a precept of believing or accepting this for their children , which confer the benefit of visible churchmembership . yea , it is fully proved before , that if there were such a promise and precept , yet these would not actually make infants visible church-members . . it is not true that the relation of visible churchmembership essentially containeth a right to the great benefit of gods soveraignty over men , christs headship , and that favour , protection , provision , and other blessings , which are due from such a powerful and gracious soveraign to such subjects , and from such a head to his members . for ( to omit the unfi●ness of the expression of [ right to the great benefits of gods soveraignty over men ] which contains these two fond conceits . . that great benefits are included in gods soveraignty over men , whereas the soveraignty of god includes not any benefit but his own greatness , he is soveraign over the reprobate men and angels as well as the elect , and yet they have no benefit , yea his soveraignty is shewed in their reprobation as well as the election of the other . . that visible churchmembers have a right to the great benefit of gods soveraignty over men , whereas what benefit soever it be yet right is not to us by visible church-membership ) it is most false that that relation either constitutivè or consecutivè , doth essentially contain that right . for neither doth the term formally import any right at all , but a manner of being or state with relation as i have before distinctly declared ; nor doth that right inseparably accrue to such visible churchmembers . there are and may be visible churchmembers , who have not that right ; and there are who have that right , and are not visible churchmembers . . nor is it true that the relation essentially includeth a right to the members station , and to the inseparable benefits thereof . for though the station in the body be included , yet not a right to it , yea the actual station is oft times without right , which i think is sufficiently proved by mr. b. himself in his dispute against mr. blake sect. . asserting a dogmatical faith entitling to baptism . . that though visible membership bee by gods gift , and this is to be by signification of gods will , yet it is not necessary it should be by any promise or declaration which may be termed moral or political , sith the event it self is a signification of gods will and of his gift . . that if churchmembership be contracted by a mutual consent and covenant as mr. b. sets down , . onely the elect can be visible churchmembers , for to them onely god hath covenanted to be their god , or christ their saviour . . infants are not visible churchmembers , for they neither covenant , nor by any intimation in scripture is it shewed or can bee , that the parents or others obedience to god in christ acknowledged or promised , is virtually or reputatively by any law of god taken for the infants covenant or consent . lastly , this law which mr. b. here sets down concerning the duty of the parents , is not that law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership , which mr. b. asserts to be unrepealed for the law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership is not a precept of what another shall do , but what they shall have , not of what in duty a person is bound to , but of what god doth give and grant . and therefore all this tedious discourse of mr. b. is but delusory , sith instead of a law and ordinance determining that infants shall be visible churchmembers , he assignes another thing a precept of a duty , and thinks if i prove not it repealed ▪ i prove not the law and ordinance of another thing repealed . mr b. adds . as for the texts you cite , deut. . . & levit. . , . king. . . isai. . . in deut. . is mentioned not the moral act of god by which he made them his people or took them for his own , and founded the relation : but the natural a●●ions whereby he rescued them from the egyptian bondage and took them to himself or for his use , service , and honour out of that land . but i think sure they were his people , and all their infants were churchmembers before that taking by vertue of a former covenant-taking . answ. the text expresseth that act of god whereby hee took the jews for his people , and consequently whereby he founded the relation of churchmembers , and if this act were a natural act , then it follows ( contrary to mr. bs. conceits ) that a natural act may be it by which god takes a people to him , which is the scripture phrase whereby is signified his making them his church . if they were his people before , and all their infants churchmembers , yet they might be made his people by repeated , continued , or new acts making or taking , noting a beginning or continuance or completing of the estate they had formerly . if they were by vertue of a former covenant-taking , yet i think mr. b. cannot shew before that time a mutual covenant-taking , such as he said before the relation of churchmembership is contracted by . he adds . as to levit. . god did perform a twofold work of separation for israel . . by his covenant and their entring covenant with him . . by local separation of their bodies from others . it was the first that made them his people , and churchmembers , and not the last : the last was onely a favourable dealing with them as his beloved . the same i say to the other two texts . sure you cannot think that corporal separation makes a church-member . what if an egyptian that had no part in the covenant had past out with the israelites , and got with them through the red sea , do you think he had been therefore a churchmember ? suppose god had made no promise or covenant with abraham or his seed , but onely taken them out of chaldea into canaan , and thence into egypt , and thence into the wilderness , and thence into canaan again : do you think this much had made them church-members ? then if the turks conquer greece , or the tartarians conquer china , they are become churchmembers , because this seems as great a temporal prosperity at least . and i think it●s past doubt , that lot was a church-member in the midst of sodom , and the israelites in egypt before they were brought out , as truly as after . answ. i grant that they were , though not so completed , when they had not liberty to sacrifice to god , nor to keep any feast , and perform other worship to god as when they were brought out , unto which the texts refer the severing of the israelites from other people that they should be gods , although i did not in my letter restrain it to that local separation ( which yet the scripture with me chiefly refers it to ) but also to the bringing them into the bond of the covenant at mount sinai , giving them laws , setling their priesthood , tabernacle , army , government , inheritance . if the turks or tartars had such a local separation as i describe , they had been churchmembers . the egyptians that came out of egypt with the israelites , were churchmembers with the israelites they becomming proselytes . if god had made no promise or covenant with abraham or his seed , but onely taken them out of chaldea into canaan , and withall made known his will concerning his grace in christ , given them lawes , and set up his worship among them , they had been churchmembers . according to mr. bs. own arguings , the promise or covenant with abraham and his seed made them not churchmembers , for they were churchmembers before . the covenant gen. . was not a mutual covenant , which is that by which according to mr. b. visible churchmembership is contracted . the texts that i allege , do sufficiently prove the people of israel were taken to be gods people by such a transeunt fact as i describe , and consequently the infants visible church-members , as part of that people , without the promise to believers and their seed to bee their god , on condition of the parents accepting the mercy offered , and re-engaging them to god , which mr. b makes the sole efficient of their holiness or visible churchmembership , as is shewed before . he proceeds . as to gen. . . acts . . nehem. . . which you also cite , as there is not one of them that gives the least intimation that infant-church-membership then began , so i shall farther enquire anon , whether they contain any covenant or promise . answ. they do each of them plainly shew the beginning of the taking of the hebrews for gods people , by severing them from idolaters , and forming them into a chruch , and consequently of the churchmembership which infants had in that people or nation . for the texts do all expresly tell how god severed abram from the chaldees , how he made his house his church , promising to encrease and to settle it , and neither moses , nor the levites , nor stephan , do go higher in the narration of gods calling of the hebrews to be his people and i think it safest to go no higher then the scripture . what mr. b. adds after , shall have answer in its place . he adds . so exod. . , . hath no word that gives the least intimation that god by that act of taking them out of egypt , did make israel a church , or the infants or any others , members of it : but onely that by fulfilling a former promise in the deliverance of a people formerly his own , he layeth further obligations to duty on them by redoubling his mercies . the same i say of levit. . . nehem. . . i will not believe yet , but that you believe your self , that the israelites and their infants were as truly churchmembers before , as after their deliverance out of egypt . and mee thinks the texts you cite might put it out of doubt . what if god say , hos. . . [ when israel was a childe i loved him , and called my son out of egypt . ] is it easie hence to prove , that calling him out of egypt did make him his son that was none before : or to prove that israel was gods son before he called him out of aegypt . if you should maintain the former , i might expect that you should say the like of christ himself , to whom the evangelist applieth this text , and so you may prove as fairly , that christ was none of gods son till he was called out of egypt , but was made his son by that call . certainly the text termeth him gods son that was called , as being so before that call . by this time i am well content that any waking man do compare your doctrine and mine , and try whether it be a transeunt fact , or a law and covenant , that made infants and all others churchmembers : and if they do not admire , that ever a learned man should harbour such a conceit as yours , and that ever a godly man should build such a weight on it , and go so far on such a ground , yea and that ever ordinary godly people should be so blinded with such palpable non sense or absurdities , then let them still follow you in the dark ; for i expect not that reason should recover them . answ. my conceits were and are still , that infants were onely visible churchmembers in the church of the hebrews or congregation of israel , and that they were such not apart by themselves , but as they were a part of that people which god took for his church , which made a peculiar commonwealth and chureh to god consisting of the same persons . this god did not by a promise to be god to the faithful and their seed as the sole efficient , and a precept of the parents to accept of this offered mercy , and to dedicate them , and re-engage them to god , as mr. b. conceives , but by a transeunt fact containing many acts of gods providence whereby they were severed from other people , and appropriate to god. the prime act of gods providence whereby god brought this to pass , was gods calling of abram out of u● , whereby he severed them from idolaters , and by degrees establ●shed his worship in abrahams house , upon which followed a long tract of providences , which i mentioned as tending to the same end : and this calling of abram i refer the beginning of that people and church to , and i think i follow therein the scriptures . the other chief act of providence was gods calling of israel out of egypt , wherein i comprehend all the acts mentioned by me in my letter which followed , by which i said it was completed , and to that end i alleged many ( as i conc●i●e ) express texts , not to prove that they then began to be gods people ( as mr. b. contrary to my plain words insinuates ) but to prove that then they were completed , that is , completely severed from other people ▪ and formed into a church or commonwealth , with lawes , distribution of offices , order , and other things requisite thereunto , which they had not before . and thus i interpret their bringing to god , exod. . . the bringing them up out of the land of egypt to bee their god levit. . . their redeeming to bee his people nehem. . . their calling out of egypt hos. . . that is , from a miserable state among idolatrous oppressors , to be a people of themselves in a complete state of liberty under gods rule , which i conceive described by ezech. ch . . under the similitude of a childe cast out , relieved and educated . if mr. b. can shew any non-sense , or absurdity herein , it is surely that which the plain scripture affords , or else i am in a dream ; and if mr. b. bee awake , i think hee may espie non-sense and absurdity manifold in his conceit of visible churchmembership as a right to a benefit , of such a covenant , and condition , and precept , which hee imagines to confer it . i am willing mr. bs. doctrine and mine bee compared , though i lay so little weight on this point , that i think if i bee mistaken , neither is mr. bs. cause gained , nor mine lost . i would have none follow me in the dark , nor would i have men befooled by mr. bs. misrepresentations of me , and others , much less by his frivolous rhetorick , in which hee discovers a great deal of prejudice , rashness , confidence , and intemperate zeal , with which i think him so drunken , that i doubt whether reason will recover him , till some providence of god bring him to see his folly ; which i think will much appear in that which followes , on which nevertheless i conceive hee builds the main or whole of his cause of infants visible churchmembership . sect . lvii . mr. bs. law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , is not proved from gen. . , , . or gen. . . i come now , saith mr. b. to the th . qu. that is to speak to the point which you propounded . you urge me to cite to you the particular texts that contain this law , ordinance , precept , or covenant . to which i answer thus . . there are two sorts of laws ; one which fir●● make a duty ; the other which suppose it so made , and do onely call for obedience ▪ and excite thereto , or prescribe somewhat as a means in order thereunto . if i could she● you no written law or promise as first constituting the duty , or granting the priviledg of churchmembership , it were no● the least disparagement to my cause , as long as i can shew you those following laws which presuppose this . you know the church of god did live about . years without any written law that we know of : where then was gods will manif●sted about such things as this , but in tradition and nature ? if moses then at the end of this . years did find this tradition and find all the infants of church-members in possession of this benefit , then what need he make a new law about it ? or why should god pr●●ise it as a new thing ? i confess if i should find by any new law or promise that it did begin but in moses days , i should think it some abatement of the strength of my cause ( though yet i think there would enough remain . ) . there are ( yet higher ) two sorts of laws : the one for the constitution of the commonwealth it self , the other for the administration or government of it when it is so constituted . the former are called by some , fundamental laws as laying the frame and form of the commonwealth , and the quality of the materials , &c. i think indeed , that as constitutive of the form of the commonwealth , these are scarce preperly called laws ; though as they look forward , obliging to duty , and prohibiting alteration , they may . but if they be not laws , they are somewhat higher , and lay the ground of all laws and obedience , and so are laws eminenter & vi●●ualiter , though not actually and formally : and in our case , as this constitution did subject us to god , making it our duty ever after to obey him ; so doth it oblige us to acknowledge that subjection . and the very constitution of the church is an act of high beneficence , and performed by the fundamental grant or covenant ▪ now if this covenant and constitution could not expresly be shewed in writing , it were no diminution of the authority of it , seeing among men fundamentals are seldome written , and when they are , it is onely as laws obliging the subject to maintain and adhere to the first constitution . as long therefore as we can prove that it is gods will that successively infants should be churchmembers , it no whit invalidates the cause if we could not shew the original constitution in writing . yet somewhat we shall attempt . . we have full proof of infants churchmembership by laws and covenants concerning it , ever since the time that there was a written word of god : and that is sufficient , if we could fetch it no higher . having premised this , i come nearer to the question . answ. had mr. b. meant fairly , and not either to prepossess the reader with prejudice against me , or weary him afore he should come to the point , he had begun with this question : in the entrance to which he tediously sets down some postulata , which do shew , that we are not to expect any plain scripture proof of a law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , which he so cracks of as to intitle his book as if he would bring such . but i shall let pass his postulata , and attend to his proofs . the first institution , saith mr. b. of infants churchmembership de jure upon supposition of their existence , was in gods first constitution of the republick of the world , when he became mans governour , and determined of his subjects , and members of the commonwealth : which republick being sacred , and devoted to gods worship and service , was truly a church of which god was head . this was performed by the first law and covenant made either in or upon mans creation , that such a covenant or promise of felicity was made by god to innocent man , almost all divines agree : but because it is rather implied then expressed in moses brief history , some few cavillers do therefore contradict us . but . the threatning of death for sin , seems to imply a promise of life if he sinned not . . and the new testament affordeth us divers passages that yet plainlier prove it , which to you i need not recite . but whether this promise of life were natural ( as the threatning of death was , ) or onely positive and more arbitrary , divines are not agreed among themselves , those that say it was free and positive , give this reason , that god could not naturally be obliged to bless or felicitate the most innocent or perfect creature , nor any creature merit of god. those that think it natural as the threatning was , say , it 's true that god could not be properly be obliged , because he is under no law , no more is he obliged to punish ▪ but onely man obliged to suffer if he inflict it : and it 's true that man cannot strictly merit of god. but yet , say they , as man may have a natural aptitude for such felicity , so god hath a natural propensity to do good according to the capacity of the subject , and his works do oblige him ( improperly ) in point of fidelity and immutability as well as his word . so that their reasons are these following . . because god is as naturally prone to do good to the good , as to do evil to the evil , that is , to reward as to punishment , as his name proclaimed to moses , exod. . shews . . because god making man capable of a higher felicity , and principling him with inclinations thereto , and giving him desires , love , and other affections for that blessed end , even the everlasting fruition of god , therefore they say , god did in this frame of his nature give him ground to expect such a felicity ; if he sinned not . for else all these inclinations and affections should have been in vain : but god made not so noble a creature with vain inclinations and affections to act fallaciously and falsly . also gods works would not be harmonical : so that as gods promise is but a sign of his will obliging him improperly in point of fidelity and immutability , so , say they , the nature of man was a sign of gods will so far engaging him : so that as he could not let sin go unpunished without some breach in the harmony of his sapiential frame of administration , no more could he deny to perfect man the object of those desires which he formed in him . so that although he might have made man such a creature as should not necessary be punished for evil , or rewarded for good , that is , he might have made him not a man ; yet having so made him , it is necessary that he be governed as a man in regard of felicity as well as penalty . . our philosophers and divines do commonly prove the immortality of the soul from it's natural inclinations to god and eternal felicity . and if the immortality may be so proved from it●s nature , then also it 's felicity in case of righteousness . i interpose not my self as a judge in this controversie of divines , but i have mentioned it to the end which i shall now express . . it is most certain , whether the reward or promise be natural or positive , that such a state of felicity man was either in or in the way to , or in part and the way to more . and i●'s most certain , that man was made holy , devoted to god , and fit for his service , and that in this estate according to the law of his creation , he was to increase and multiply : it 's most certain therefore , that accor - to the first law of nature , infants should have been churchmembers . . but if their opinion hold , that make the reward grounded on the law of nature , and not on a meer positive law , ( and you see the reasons are not contemptible , ) then the argument would be yet more advantagious . . but how ever it be of the title to glory or eternity , it 's most certain , that according to the very law of nature infants were to have been churchmembers if man had stood . the first text therefore that i cite for infants churchmembership , as expressing its original de jure , is gen. . , , . [ so god created man in his own image — and god blessed them , and god said unto them , be fruitfull , and multiply , and replenish the earth . ] here you see by the law of n●ture infants were to have been born in gods image and in innocency , and so churchmembers . and note , that the first blessing that god pronounceth on mankind , is , that they propagate children in their owne estate , to bee as the parents were , even in gods image . answ. . if this prove their churchmembership , it proves not their visible churchmembership , of which onely is the question . . if it prove a law or ordinance , yet it proves not such a law or ordinance as is in question , which is not a law or ordinance de jure , but de eventu , that so it shall be , or they shall be so accounted . for such a law or ordinance of their visible churchmembership onely can infer their admission as visible churchmembers , they being to be actually visible churchmembers afore admission , according to mr. bs. own dictates , and therefore not de jure onely ▪ such . . if it did prove such a law or ordinance , yet it proves it not to be by such a promise and precept as mr. b ▪ asserts . . if it did , yet it onely proves it of the church by nature , which hath a great difference from the church by grace , this being onely by election and calling , not by birth . . if this law or ordinance be unrepealed , then it is in force , and according to the law of nature invariable that man be born without sin . for man is born according to the law of procreation , gen. . . and if this were the law of nature , that the first blessing that god pronounceth on mankind , is , that they propagate children in their own estate to be as the parents were , even in gods image ; then still the law of nature continues , and so there is no original sin ; or it is repealed , and so it is not such a law as mr. b. asserts . . the words [ god created , blessed , ] do note onely a transeunt fact ; and therefore , what ever divines imagine about gods covenant with man , this passage onely tells what god did , but mentions no such law or ordinance by promise or precept as mr. b. conceives , and therefore it is manifestly impertinent to his purpose . let 's view the next and main text. the next institution , saith mr. b. of infants churchmembership , was at the first proclamation of grace to faln man , or in the first promise of redemption to sinners , in gen. . . [ and i will put enmity between thee and the woman , and between thy seed and her seed : it shall bruise thy head , and thou shalt bruise his heel . ] i will prove that this fundamental covenant of grace or promise doth declare it to be the will of god that infants should be churchmembers : and to this end , let us first consider what the words expresly contain , and then what light may be fetcht from other texts to illustrate them . it being a known rule , that an expositor must not turn universals into singulars or particulars , nor restrain and limit the scripture generals , where the word it self or the nature of the subject doth not limit them . i may well conclude that these things following are comprehended in this fundamental promise . . that the devil having played the enemy to mankind , and brought them into this sin and misery , god would not leave them remediless , nor to that total voluntary subjection to him as he ●●ght have done : but in grace 〈◊〉 undeserved mercy would engage them in a war against him , in which they that con●uered should bruise his head . . that in this war the lord jesus christ , the principal seed , is promised to be our general , whose perfect nature should contain , and his perfect life express a perfect enmity against satan , and who should make a perfect co●quest over him . . the lord jesus is promised to do this work as the wom●ns seed , and so as conceived of her , and born by her , and so as an infant first , before he comes to ripeness of age . so that here an infant of the woman is promised to be the general of this army , and head of the church . this is most evident : by which god doth sanctifie the humane birth , and the infant state , and assure us that he doth not exclude now that age from the redeemed church , which he admitted into the church by the laws of creation . for the first promise is of an infant born of the woman to be the head of the church , and growing up to maturity , to do the works of a head. had god excluded the infant state from the visible church , he would not have made the head first an infant . where note , . that christ is the great exemplar of his church ; and in things which he was capable o● , he did that first in his own body , which he would after do in theirs . . that the head is a member , even the principal member , one of the two parts which constitute the whole . as the pars imp●rans and pars subdita do constitute each commonwealth . so that it an infant must be a member eminently so called , then infants are not excluded from membership , but are hereby clearly warranted to be members of a lower nature . if an infant may be soveraign , no doubt he may be a subject . if an infant may be the chief prophet of the church , then no doubt but infants may be disciples . if you still harp on the old str●ng , and say , they are no disciples that learn not ; you may as well say , he is no prophet that teacheth not . and if you will openly deny christ in infancy to have been the prophet of the church , i will undertake to prove the falshood and vileness of that opinion , as soon as i know you own it . the promise then of an infant head , doth declare gods mind that he will have infants members , because the head is the principal member . answ. the thing to be proved by mr. b. is that there is a law or ordinance of god unrepealed , that not onely in the church jewish , but in the christian properly so called , the infants of believers , by vertue of gods promise to be the god of the faithfull and their seed , and a precept to parents to accept of the mercy offered and re-engage them to god , should be , and be taken to be visible members . but that he takes upon him to prove , is , that it is the will of god that infants should be churchmembers , that he doth not exclude now that age from the redeemed church , that he excluded not the infant state from the visible church , that it is his mind that he will have infant members ; all which we might grant , and yet mr. bs. law and ordinance not thereby proved . for infants may be churchmembers of the redeemed church , and yet not of the visible church ; and the infant state may be not excluded from the visible church , and yet there may be no law or ordinance for the inclusion of them ; yea , there may be a law or ordinance for inclusion of them , and yet none for including them in the visible church christian. nor is his proof of any validity : for the conse●uence holds not , christ was by gods promise head of the church in infancy , therefore infants were by gods will to be churchmembers , or the infant state is not excluded from the visible church . it must rest upon some such positions as these ▪ in what age god promised christ to bee head of the church , in that age his will was that persons should be visible churchmembers ; the ordering of christs age is an exemplar to the church , or rather rule for the being and accounting of visible churchmembers . which are manifestly false , . because there is no such thing declared in scripture , and therefore it is to be taken as a meer fancy . . because if these positions were true , . then an infant in the mothers womb should be a visible churchmember , because then christ was head of the church ▪ and as mr ▪ b. saith , the lord jesus is promised to do this work as the womans seed , and so as conceived of her : . then an old man sho●ld not be a member of the visible church , because christ in the days of his flesh was not an old man ; which are both absurd . and for the antecedent of mr. bs. enthymeme , though i deny not that christ in infancy was head of the church , nor that he was the prophet of his church in infancy , understanding it of his being the prophet habitually and by designation , nor that he in some respect , to wit , of rule and protection , the head of the visible church , even of that part which is not elect : yet . i deny that in respect of that union which makes any members of his body in the scripture acception , which is by his spirit , he is head of that part of the visible church which is not elect ; nor can he be said in this respect and after the scripture speech to be head of the visible church as visible , but onely in respect of that part which is invisible , to wit , the true believers ▪ or elect p●rsons , who alone are univocally members of christ the head , as the doctrine of protestant writers a voweth . dr. rainold , thes . . § . . mali nulla corporis christi pars sunt . dr. field , of the church , book . ch . the wicked are neither parts nor members of the mystical body of christ. bellarmin himself de eccl milit . c. . makes them members not living , nor true according to the essence of members , but dead , and as ill humours in the body , and in respect of some outward use christ makes of them . . nor do i well know how to make a construction of this speech of mr. b. [ that the lord jesus is promised , gen . . to do this work of bruising the serpents head , or conquering the devil as the womans seed , and so as conceived of her , and born by her , and so as an infant first before he comes to ripeness of age ; ] according to which it may be true . for though i grant the man christ jesus who did this work to have been an infant first , yet i do not think it true that he did it as the womans seed , according to humane nature onely , but also according to his divine , heb . . nor what he did was done in infancy , but at ripe age : for he bruised the serpents head and conquered the devil by his death , heb. . which was not in infancy , but at ripe age . . nor do i understand how it is true that [ by christs birth and infancy god doth sanctifie the humane birth and the infant state : ] for though i grant children born and infants are sanctified by god through christ , who was born and an infant ; yet that the humane birth and the infant state should be sanctified thereby , seems not true ▪ for then humane birth and infancy should be holy in any infants o● persons born , and so the birth of a bastard should be holy , and his infancy holy , which i need not shew how absurd it is . . nor do i conceive any truth , but gross falshood in that speech , [ had god excluded the infant state from the visible church , he would not have made the head first an infant : ] for this doth suppose , that either this was the onely end or chief end without which god had not made christ an infant , and consequently this was more in gods eye then the saving of sinners for which christ came into the world , or the fulfilling of his promise , that a child should be born , a son should be given to us ; and would infer , that they which hold infants not visible churchmembers , must deny christ to have been an infant . . nor do i know that to be true , [ that in things which christ was capable of , he did that first in his own body , which he would after do in the bodies of his church : ] for he would and did innumerable things in the bodies of his church , as to marry , beget children , &c. which he did not in his own body first , though he was capable of them . . i deny that christ as man was in infancy the prophet of his church visibly , and in actu exercito . let mr. b. when he will assault it , there will appear in his contradiction vileness and manifold falshood , none in this opinion . and for his inference , if an infant may be the chief prophet of the church then no doubt but infants may be disciples , i grant both , and yet deny that christ was visibly , audibly , in actu exercito in his infancy in his humane nature the prophet of his church , or that any infants are actually disciples visibly , till they hear the gospel and profess the faith ; nor am i ashamed to aver , that he is no prophet that prophesieth not , that they are no disciples that learn not . but mr. b. proceeds . . saith he , as the war is here proclaimed , and the general or chief commander constituted , so next here is a natural enmity put into the whole seed of the woman , or humane race , against the whole seed of the serpent that then was , or the diabolical nature . this is plain both in the text , and in the experience of the fulfilling of it as in the instrumental serpent , it is the whole serpentine nature , that hath an enmity to the humane nature , and the whole humane nature to the serpentine nature ; they being venemous to us , and wee abhorring them as venemous , and as such as our lives are in danger of : so is it the whole humane nature that is at enmity to the diabolical nature ▪ vide muscul. calvin . luther . in locum . all men have naturally as great an abhorrence of the devil , as of a serpent , they apprehend him to be their enemy , they abhor the very name and remembrance of him : if they do but dream of him it terrifieth them , they are afraid of seeing him in any apparition . if they know any temptation to be from him , so far they dislike it and abhor it , though for the thing presented they may cherish it . this is not special saving grace , but this is a great advantage to the work of special grace , and to our more effectual resisting of temptations , and entertaining the help t●at is offered us against them , when our very natures have an enmity to the diabolical nature : we now look on him as having the power of death as gods executioner and our destroyer and malicious adversary . and if there be any witch or other wicked person that hath contracted such familiarity & amity with him , as that this natural enmity is thereby overcome , that proveth not that it was not naturally there , but that they by greater wickedness are grown so far unnatural . . as this enmity is established in the nature of mankinde against the diabolical nature , so is there a further enmity legally proclaimed against the diabolical pravity , malignity , and works . vide pareum in locum . god will put an enmity by his laws ( both natural and positive ) making it the duty of mankinde to take satan for their enemy ; to resist , and use him as an enemy , and fight against him and abhor his works , and so to list themselves under the general that fighteth against him , to take his colours , and to be of his army : and this being spoken of the common world of mankinde , and not onely of the elect ( for it is not they onely that are obliged to this hostility and warfare ) belongeth to each one according to their capacities : and therefore infants being at the parents dis●ose , it is they that are to list them in this army against the enemy of mankinde , of which more anon . . a third and hig●er enmity is yet here comprehended , and that is an habitual or dispositive enmity against the diabolical malignity pravity and works , which may bee called [ natural ] as it is the bent or bias of our new nature . this god giveth onely to his chosen , and not to all . and it containeth not onely their consent to list themselves in his army against satan , but specially and properly a hatred to him as the prince of unrighteousness , and a cordial resolution to fight against him and his wor●s universally , to the death , with a complacency in god and his service and souldiers . h●re take a short prospect of the mysterious blessed trinity . as god is one in three , and in his entity hath unity , verity , and goodness , and in his blessed nature hath posse , scire , velle , power , wisdome , and love , so as from these is he related both to his created and redeemed rational creatures , as absolute proprietary , as soveraign ruler , and as most gracious benefactour : as lord of our nature he hath put the foresaid enmity between the humane nature and the diabolical : as soveraign ruler , he hath by legislation imposed on us a further enmity as our duty , that we should be listed in his army , profess open hostility against satan , and fight against him to the death . as benefactor , he giveth special grace to do this , to his chosen . as he is lord of all , so the first is done on the natures of all : as he is rector of all , but not by the same laws ( as to positives ) so he obligeth all to this hostility , but not all as he doth those that hear the gospel . as he is benefactor he doth with his own as he list , and makes a difference . if any say that it is the same enmity that is here said to bee put in all , and therefore the same persons in which it is put . i answer . there 's no proof of either . a general command or promise to a community , may signifie a difference of duties or gifts to that community , though that difference be not expressed : for the nature of the subject may prove it . and . experience of the fulfilling of this promise or covenant , proves the difference before mentioned . and it 's well known , . that moses is so concise in the history of these matters . . and that the mystery of grace was to bee opened by degrees , and so but darkly at the first , that it is no wonder if we find the whole sum of the gospel here coucht-up in so narrow a room , and if each particular be not largely laid open before our eyes . . that wee may certainly know that this promise speaks not onely of the enmity that christ himself should have to satan , and doth not engage a general without an army , god doth here expresly mention the woman her self , saying [ i will put enmity between thee and the woman ▪ ] so that as shee stood in a threefold respect ; she is here her self possessed with this threefold enmity . . as she is the root of humane nature , from whence all mankinde must spring , she is possest with the natural enmity to the diabolical nature , and this to bee naturally convayed or propagated ▪ . as she was the root of the great republick of the world , or that rational society which god as rector would sapientially govern , and her self with her husband ( who no doubt was also included in the promise ) were the whole then existent race of mankinde , so did she receive a legal enmity of obligation , which she was traditionally to deliver down to all her posterity , being her self hereby obliged to list her self and all her infant progeny in the redeemers army , against the proclaimed enemy , and to teach her posterity to do the like : for thus obligatory precepts must be brought down . . as she was one of the chosen favourites of god , she received the habitual enmity of sanctification : and this is not in her power to propagate , though sh●e may use some means that are appointed thereto , and whether a promise of any such thing be made to her seed on the use of such means , i will not now stand to discuss . . it is not all that are possessed with the nat●ra● enmity against the divel himself that are the church of christ : for this is but a common preparative which is in all : nor is it all that are obliged to the further enmity against the works of satan : but all that on that obligation are duely listed in christs army against satan ( by the obliged person ) are visible members : and all that are by sanctification at a hearty enmity ( habitual or actual ) with the kingdome of satan , are members of the church called mystical or invisible . this i put as granted . . those that violate this fundamental obligation , and to their natural pravity shall add a fighting against christ and his kingdome for satan and his kingdome , are become themselves the seed of the serpent . and though they had the natural enmity with the rest of mankind in general against satan , yet have they therewithal the habitual enmity against christ. this much i suppose as out of controversie . but whether also the first original corrupted nature it selfe ( before any sin against recovering grace ) did contain an habitual enmity against the kingdome of the redeemer ? or whether the sins of later parents may propaga●e this as an addi●ional corruption in our nature , i will not now stand to discuss . onely as to our present business , it ▪ s certain that the general natural enmity to satan , may consist with an habitual friendship ▪ to his ways and cause . and though as men they may have the first common advantage of nature , and as subjects de jure may be under the common obligation , yea , and as listed in christs army may have man of its priviledges ; yet for the enmity of disposition to christ , they may be under a greater curse . . as it is certain , that it is not onely christ himself that is here made the object of this promise , and is here called [ the seed of the woman , ] ( as is before proved , and may be more , and is commonly granted ; ) so it is to be noted , that those others in whom this enmity are put , are called here [ the seed of the woman , ] and not the seed of christ ( though the chief of them are his seed . ) and so though the promise is made to none but the the womans seed , and no exception put in against infants , or any age of all her seed : till you can prove that infants are none of her seed , we must take this fundamental promise to extend to infants , and that very plainly , without using any violence with the text. answ. this tedious discourse of mr. b. is indeed serpenti●e with winding in and out , wrigling and wresting the text ; one while it is a promise , another while a precept ; sometimes meant of one sort of enmity , sometimes of another ; sometimes the woman under one consideration , sometimes under another ; sometimes the seed of the woman comprehend ▪ all the natural seed , sometime onely one kind : with so many ambiguous speeches , and unproved dictates , and inconsequent inferences , that i know not what better to term it then the way of a serpent on a rock , which the wise man said was too wonderfull for him , and one of the things he knew not , prov. . , . and sure when i yeeld to acknowledge this discourse as a convincing proof of the law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , which mr. b. asserts , i shall deliver my self as a pupil to him , take him for an infallible oracle , and profess blind obedience . but let me see what i can make of this ridd●e . the sum of it , so far as i can collect , is this : here is an enmity proclaimed legally , against the devils pravity , malignity , and works ; h●reby all the seed natural of the woman are obliged to list themselves in christs army , or the woman as a believer is to list all her infant progeny in the redeemers army ; infants being part of her seed , and no exception put in against infants , or any age of all her seed , this fundamental promise extends to them , and all duly listed are visible churchmembers : ergo , here is the fundamental law or ordinance for infants visible churchmembership by promise and precept unrepealed . to discern how silly and insipid these arguings are ( if i may use ●r . bs. own phrase ) let us grant him here is a promise and precept implied , and inquire what listing is here enjoyned , of whom , by whom , and how far this makes the listed visible churchmembers . the listing is not here exprest , but in his book of baptism , p. . he saith , they are first made disciples , and then solemnly admitted , e●tred , or listed by baptism . p. as every one that must be admitted solemnly into the army , must be admitted by listing , as the solemn engaging s●gne ; so every one that hath right to be solemly admitted into the visible church , must ordinarily bee admitted by baptism , christs listing engaging signe . the persons to be listed , are according to mr. b. mankinde , the woman and her seed , even infants , no exception being put in against infants , or any age of her seed . the persons that are to list are each man , for he saith , it is the duty of mankinde to list themselves , infants being at the parents dispose it is they that are to list them in christs army , and this listing ( which he counts duely done ) makes infants visible churchmembers . concerning which , i grant that god doth proclaim here an enmity against the diabolical pravi●y , malignity and works , and that it is the duty of mankinde to fight against satan , to joyn with christ : for this is no more but that god forbids sin , and it 's our duty to resist ●t , and to believe and follow christ , and here is a fundamen●al promise , that they who do so shall bruise the serpents head , or prevail against satan . nor do i deny that it is the duty of parents , yea of all men to do what lies in them to engage persons , even i●fants to this war , provided they do it by wayes allowed and appointed , as by their prayers , vowes to god , or the like . but it is utterly false , . that there is any precept of listing by baptism here , for baptism is a mere positive rite of the new testament , not enjoyned here . . that it is the duty of all mankinde to list themselves ▪ for then it is their duty to baptise themselves . . that it is the duty of the woman to list her self and all her seed , for then she had been bound to baptise her self , and the children of unbelievers as well as believers , cains seed as well as abels , and if it were supposed that she had lived to this day , she had been bound to list all the infants at least of the professed infidels at this day ; for if it were a precept unrepealed , it must have bound her still . . that such a listing as mr. bs. words import , is either duly done , or that the listed in that manner are all visible churchmembers . . that here is any fundamental promise made to persons so listed . . that as listed in christs army in the manner mr. b conceives , infants have the priviledge of christs soldiers . none of these things denied by me , have a word of proof in all this p●olix discourse , nor do i imagine any proof for them can be from this text , and therefore conceive his discourse without proof , and like the dream of a sick man , or the dotage of a phantastick . he adds . . some learned men do use contemptible arguments to prove further , that the sanctifying enmity is here promised ▪ to the seed of the woman as her seed ( i mean those that go the way of dr. ward , mr. bedford , &c. ) that is , that as the two former sorts of enmity are put into all the seed of the woman ( as is explained ) so the spiritual holy enmity promised to her seed as she is a believer . . and some learned men do accordingly conclude , that the impiety of parents may do much to hinder their children from that blessing more then by original sin they were hindered , and therefore their faith may further them . of which though much may be said , i shall say no more , because i will not stand on things so much questioned . answ. i might then well have omitted this as of no validity , but to shew the multiplicity of paedobaptists errours . he g●es on thus . i come next to prove from other parts of scripture , that the fundamental promise of grace is thus to ●e interpreted as including infants . . if the same covenant of grace when it is more fully and clearly opened , do expresly comprehend infants as to be churchmembers , then is this fundamental promise so to be understood ( or then doth this also comprehend them . ) but the antecedent is certain , therefore so is the consequent . the antecedent i prove from the covenant of grace made to abraham the father of the faithful , which comprehended infants for churchmembers : the covenant made with abraham comprehending infants , was the same with this in gen. . but in some things clearlier opened . which is proved thus : both these were the covenant of grace and free justification by faith in the redeemer , therefore they were the same . for there is but one such . if abraham had some special promises additional to the main covenant , that makes not the covenant of free justification by faith to be divers . that this in gen. . is the promise or covenant of grace and free justification is not denied , that i know of . that the promise to abraham was the same , is evident from rom. . , , , , . . it is there expresly manifest , that the covenant whereof circumcision was to abraham the seal , was the covenant of free justification by faith ; circumcision it self being a seal of the righteousness of faith which abraham had , yet being uncircumcised , that he might be the father of believers , &c. . yea the promise that he should be heir of the world was not made to abraham or to his seed through the law , bu● through the righteousness of faith . now it 's certain that this covenant sealed by circumcision and made to abraham and his seed ▪ did comprehend infants ▪ the consequence of the m●jor then i● evident , that the same promise expressed more concisely , is to bee expounded by the same expressed more fully : and it 's acknowledged that the gospel light and grace was to be manifest by certain degrees . answ. that the fundamental promise of grace , gen. . . did include infants , was never denied by me , and therefore mr. b. doth but waste paper , and abuse me and his readers by going about to prove it . this i deny , that it includes all infants , or all infants of believers , and that any infant is made a visible churchmember by that promise as the next cause , or the sole efficient , which is mr. bs. term : neither of these is proved by him . i grant that the covenant to abraham was the covenant of evangelical grace , though mixt , as i have often shewed , and that it did include infants , and that they were churchmembers , to wit , of the invisible church of the elect , i mean so many as the covenant of evangelical grace was made to . i grant also that abrahams infants in his house were visible churchmembers , but not by vertue of the covenant barely as evangelical ▪ but by vertue of the transeunt fact before asserted by me ; and if in any respect by vertue of the covenant ▪ it was by it as containing houshold or civil promises , rather th●n evangelical . so that although i deny that from rom. . , , , , . it is proved that circumcision was a seal of the covenant , gen . and that the promises , gen. . . , , . were additional to the main covenant , and not as well the main covenant as v. yet i grant mr. bs. conclusions which he here infers , that the promises , gen. . . & . . did comprehend infants , that there is but one covenant of free justification by faith in both places , that the one may explain the other that infants were from the beginning churchmembers , that is , members of the invisible church of the ●lect ▪ but this i deny , that this is true of all , or perha●s onely of the infants of believers , or that because they are of the invisible therefore they are members of the visible church , there being more required to make visible church-members , then election , the covenant of grace , and parents faith . but mr. b. adds . ● . that the first fundamental promise is thus to be interpreted , i further prove by gods constant administration in the performance of it . concerning which i do make this challenge to you ( with modesty and submission , ) to prove if you can , that there was ever one churchmember that had infants born to him while he was in that estate , from the beginning of the world to this day , whose infants also were not churchmembers ? except onely the anabaptists , who refuse or deny the mercy , and so refuse to dedicate their infants in baptism unto christ. and whether their infants be churchmembers , i will not determine affirmatively or negatively at this time . i do again urge you to it , that you may not forget it ; to prove to me , that ever there was one infant of a churchmember in the world , since the creation to this day , that was not a churchmember , ( except the anabaptists that refuse the mercy or deny it . ) answ. mr. b. undertakes to prove gods constant administration , but instead of proving sends me a challenge , and ho●ly urgeth me to answer it ; which course indeed is ridiculous to the intelligent , yet subdolous , as taking much with shallow heads who know not the laws of dispute , as if he got the better of me if i did not answer it . but let such know , that it is mr. bs. part now to prove , mine onely to answer . . that if i could not answer , either through def●ct of reading , memory , histories in such matters , or such like cause ; yet this is no proof of mr. bs. assertion . . that i have no reason to answer mr. bs. questions and challenges , but his arguments : . because i find a meer captious spirit in him , seeking advantage to himself from my words ( which he very seldome doth rightly represent to the reader ) when he wants proof of his assertions ; as appears most evidently in this his answer to my letter , in which he hath gathered almost half his answer ( besides the business propounded ) from my writing to him . . that the understandings of men , even of scholiers and learned men are so superficial , or so partial , that without ever examining , yea or reading my writings , upon mr. bs. exclamations , and vile suggestions of me and mine answers , they do most unrighteously , and like men that seek not the truth , conclude on his side , scorn and speak evil of me and the cause i assert ( which is indeed the cause of christ ) of which i have much experience . . nevertheless i answer his challenge categorically thus ▪ . no infant born of a churchmember was a visible churchmember in the christian church , or any other besides that of the nation of the hebrews , as i have proved before : and if we must needs take up a fashion of disputing by challenges , i challenge mr. b. to shew me one infant who was a visible churchmember out of the nation of the hebrews . ● . i conceive from acts. . . tim. . . that timothy was born of a churchmember , yet no churchmember visible in infancy . anabaptists refuse not the mercy of visible churchmembership , if god had offered it to their infants ; nor would they refuse to dedicate their infants in baptism , if god had commanded it : but they dare not challenge what god hath not granted , nor profane the ordinance of christ , by their altering it into that which he hath not appointed . mr. b. goes on thus . sect . lviii . infants visible churchmembership is not proved by the law of nature before i proceed to any more texts of scripture , i will a little enquire into the light or law of nature it self , and see what that ●aith to the point in hand . and first we shall consider of the duty of dedicating infants to god in christ , and next of gods acceptance of them , and entertaining them into that estate . and the first is most evidently contained in the law of nature it self ( at least upon supposition that there be any hopes of gods entertaining them ; ) which i prove thus . . the law of nature bindeth us to give to every one his own due : but infants are gods own due ; ergo , the law of nature bindeth parents to give them up to god. by [ giving ] here i mean not an alienation of propriety , to make that to be gods that was not so before ; but an acknowledgement of his right , with a free res●gnation and dedication of the infant to god , as his own ; for his use and service , when he is capable there●f . if you say , infants being not capable of doing service , should not be devoted to it till they can do it ; i answer , they are capable at present of a legal obligation to future duty , and also of the relation which followeth that obligation , together with the honour of a churchmember ( as the child of a noble man is of his honours and title to his inheritance ) and many other mercies of the covenant . and though christ according to his humanity was not capable of doing the works of a mediatour or head of the church in his infancy , yet for all that he must be head of the church then , and not ( according to this arguing ) stay till he were capable of doing those works . and so is it with his members . answ. it is a bold attempt to undertake to prove a law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed from the law of nature , when churches are onely instituted , not by any law of nature , and consequently there can be no direction in the law of nature who shall be visible churchmembers , who not . nor could both those things mr. b. considers be proved , to wit , the duty of dedicating infants to god in christ , and gods acceptance of them , and entertaining of them into that estate , i. e. of dedicated persons , prove them visible churchmembers : there 's more required thereto , to wit , something discernable by sense , by which they may be said to be part of gods people . yet i shall examine his proofs the conclusion may be understood of giving up , devoting , dedicating to god by prayer or vow ; or else by an outward sign , such as circumcision or baptism . this latter is not of the law of nature , being meer instituted worship ; the former may be granted , without any hurt to my cause . nevertheless i shall say something to the argument : which hath at least four terms , and so is faulty in the form ; and for the matter of it , the major is not true without limitation . for the law of nature doth not bind every man to give to every one his own due , except it be that due which is due from the giver , or it belongs to him to give . a private man is bound to pay his own debt , not to pay every other mans debt to him to whom it is due . now infants may be said to be gods due , either in respect of their persons , or their service . infants in infancy can do no service , nor doth god require any service of them , and therefore there is none due , and therefore no parents do or are bound by any act of theirs for their infants service to give god his due of their infants service . and for their persons , they are gods due in that he may of right dispose of them as he wil , in life and death , health or sickness ; and in this respect parents have no way of giving god his due , but by acknowledging his soveraignty , and submitting to his will. dedication to god for the future i●●o giving of god his due from infants ; it is neither the giving of god the due of their persons , or their service : they are bound themselves when they come to understanding to do it by themselves ; and if they do it not , the parents dedication cannot do it . i object not , that infants should not be devoted to to god till they can do service ; but that what ever it be , it is not the giving god his own due from infants , nor doth make them visible churchmakers . mr. b. adds . . the law of nature bindeth all parents to do their best to secure gods right , and their childrens good , and to prevent their sin and misery : but to engage them betimes to god by such a dedication , doth tend to secure gods right , and their childrens good , and to prevent their sin and misery : for they are under a double obligation , which they may be minded of betimes , and which may hold them the more strongly to their duty , and disadvantage the tempter that would draw them off from god. answ. to dedicate them by prayer , and thanksgiving , and vows to god , may tend to these end● : but to do it by baptism not required of god , secures not gods right , but abuseth his name ; nor doth it tend to the childrens good , or prevent their sin and misery . for neither is there promise of god that the parents dedicating the child by baptism shall have these effects , nor do these effects follow ex opere operato , nor is there any obligation real put by infant-baptism on the person , though there may be a putative obligation thereby : but really infant-baptism is a disadvantage , . in that it is the occasion whereby they take themselves to be christians afore they know what christianity is , by which means they are kept in vain presumption of their safe condition ; and this constant experience , and the acknowledgement of observing men doth witness . . they are kept back thereby from the true baptism of christ , which hath had , and would have a strong tie on mens consciences , if it were solemnly and in a right manner performed as it should be . surely a mans own engagement by himself , in all probability must have a stronger operation then an engagement by another for him , notwithstanding the fond conceits of mr. simon ford , and mr. john goodwin , of edification by infant baptism . he is a very rare bird that makes any fruitfull use of infant baptism , which neither hath institution from god , nor promise of blessing , and was never known by the infant , nor perhaps any person living can tell him there was any such thing . nor is there in this respect the same reason of it and circumcision , for circumcision makes such an impression on the body as keeps the memory of it , but by baptism there is no print on the body by which it and the obligation by it may be remembred . . saith he , the law of nature bindeth parents in love to their children to enter them into the most honourable and profitable society , if they have but leave so to do : but here parents have leave to enter them into the church , which i● the most honourable and profitable society ▪ ergo. that they have leave , is proved , . god never forbad any man in the world to do this sincerely , ( the wicked and unbelievers cannot do it sincerely ▪ ) and a not forbidding is to be interpreted as leave in case of such partic●pation of benefits : as all laws of men in doubtfull cases are to be interpreted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the most favourable sence . so hath christ taught us to interpret his own : when they speak of duty to god , they m●st be interpreted in the strictest sence : when they speak of benefits to man , they must be interpreted in the most favourable sence that they will hear . answ. entering into the church invisible is gods onely wo●k : entering into the church visible christian is by bapti●m , plain scripture proof , &c. pag. . ●e have neither precept nor example in scripture , since christ ordained baptism , of any other way of admitting visible members , but onely by baptism . mr. bs. minor then here is this , that parents have leave to enter ( which is all one with admission ) their children into the visible church by baptism , that is , to baptize them . but this is false . for god hath forbidden parents to bring their infants to baptism , in that he hath not appointed baptism for th●m ( as is proved at large in the d . part of this review ) much more to baptize them in their own persons , according to mr. bs. hypotheses , plain scrip proof , &c. pag. ● . except they be ministers . a not forbidding is not to be interpreted as leave in this case : but a not commanding is a plain forbidding . mr. collings , provoc . prov . ch . . no thing is lawfull in the worship of god , but what we have precept or president for ; which who so denies , opens a door to all idolatry , and superstition , and will worship in the world . if the law of nature bind parents to enter their children into the church , then it is a law that speaks of duty to god , not of benefit to man ; for such laws contain grants of something from god , not of what man is to do : now if it be a law of duty , it must according to mr. bs. own rule be interpreted in the strictest sence , which is the right sence ; they are bound to it as god appoints , and no otherwise . so mr. b. against mr. bl. pag. . i take gods precept to be the ground of baptism , as it is officium , a duty , both as to the baptizer ; and the baptized . mr. ball reply ab●ut nine positions , p. . the sacraments are of god , and we must learn of god for what end and use they were ordained . but by the institution of , baptism recorded in scripture , we have learned it belongeth to the faithfull , to disciples , to them that are called . mr. b. mistakes when he conceives of baptism as a benefit to which a man hath right by promise or covenant grant : for though a benefit do follow to them that rightly do it , yet it self is onely a duty ; and such a one as is onely by institution , not by the law of nature , nor belongs to pa●ents for children , but to each person for himself . but mr. b. goes on . . it is the more evident , that a not forbidding in such cases is to be taken for leave , because god hath put the principle of sell preservation , and desiring our own welfare , and the welfare of our children so deeply in humane nature , that he can no more lay it by then he can cease to be a reasonable creature . and therefore he may lawfully actuate or exercise this natural necessary principle of seeking his own or childrens real happiness , where-ever god doth not restrain or prohibit him . we need no positive command to seek our own or childrens happiness , but what is in the law of nature it self , and to use this where god forbiddeth not , if good be then to be found , cannot be unlawfull . answ. . infant baptism tends not to the preservation , good , welfare , real happiness of them ; but to their hurt . . it requires a positive command , sith it is not of the law of nature . . it is forbidden , in that it is not commanded . . there can be expected no blessing of god on it , sith he hath promised none to it . . saith he , it is evident from what is said before ( and elsewhere ) that it is more then a silent leave of infants churchmembership that god hath vouchsafed us . for in the forementioned fundamental promise , explained more fully in after times , god signified his will that so it should be . it cannot be denied , but there is some hope at least given to them in the first promise , and that in the general promise to the seed of the woman they are not excluded , there be no excluding term . upon so much encouragement and h●pe then it is the duty of parents by the law of nature to enter their infants into the covenant , and into that society that partake of these hopes , and to list them into the army of christ. answ. the point to be proved was , that parents have leave to enter their children into the church ; but a leave of infa●ts churchmembership vouchsafed of god ( if there be good sense in the expression ) is another thing . infants churchmembership is the infants state , not the parents act , and leave of it intimates a willingness in the infant to be a churchmember , to which god vouchsafes leave . but whether there be sense or not in the expression , it is not true that in the forementioned fundamental promise , explained more fully in after times , god signified his will that infants should be visible churchmembers ; nor is it true , that upon hope given in the first promise that they are not excluded , is it the duty of parents ( without a positive command ) by the law of nature to enter their infants into the covenant , and into that society that partake of those hopes , and to list them ( by baptism ) into the army of christ. hopes of what may be , is not a sufficient reason of baptizing a person . nor by these hopes is any more duty put on the parent , then an other , who hath the same hopes and may do it , as viz. a midwife : yea , by this argument midwives should be bound to baptize not only believe●s infants , but also all infants , if it be so much for their good , welfare , preservation , real happiness , and the law of nature ties them as well as parents to do what lies in them to do them good upon such hopes and encouragement ; and sith they are in their power as well as parents , yea before them , and they may list them into christs army , enter them into covenant and the church , they are bound to do it . yea , considering that mr. b. of baptism part . ch . holds , that by christs commission , mat. . . disciples should immediately without delay be baptized as soon as they are disciples , and believers infants are disciples as soon as they are born , and none can do it so soon as midwives , they ought to do it , according to mr. bs. hypotheses , immediately upon their birth . which will go very far in justifying the papists about their hasty baptism by midwives . yet again saith mr. b. . it is the duty of parents by the law of nature , to accept of any allowed or offered benefit for their children . but the relation of a member of christs church or army , is an allowed or offered benefit to them , ergo , &c. for the major , these principles in the law of nature do contain it . . that the infant is not sui juris , but is at his parents dispose in all things that are for his good . that the parents have power to oblige their children to any future duty or suffering , that is certainly to their own good : and so may enter them into covenants accordingly : and so far the will of the father is as it were the will of the childe . . that it is unnaturally sinful for a parent to refuse to do such a thing , when it is to the great benefit of his own childe . as if a prince would offer honours , and lordships , and immunities to him and his heirs : if he will not accept this for his heirs , but onely for himself it is unnatural . yea , if he will not oblige his heirs to some small and reasonable conditions for the enjoying such benefits . for the minor , that this relation is an allowed or offered benefit to infants is manifested already , and more shall be . answ. i meant of visible members in the christian church properly so called , this last speech is denied . he goes on thus . and this leads me up to the second point , which i propounded to consider of ; whether by the light or law of nature we can prove that infants should have the benefit of being church-members , supposing it first known by supernatural revelation , that parents are of that society , and how general the promise is , and how gracious god is . and . it is certain to us by nature that infants are capable of this benefit , if god deny it not , but will give it them as well as the aged . . it is certain that they are actually members of all the commonwealths in the world ( perfectè sed imperfecta membra ) being secured from violence by the lawes , and capable of honors and right to inheritances , and of being real subjects under obligations to future duties , if they survive . and this shews that they are also capable of being churchmembers , and that nature revealeth to us , that the infants case much followeth the case of the parents , especially in benefits . . nature hath actually taught most people on earth , so far as i can learn , to repute their infants in the same religious society with themselves , as well as in the same civil society . . under the covenant of works ( commonly so called ) or the perfect rigorous law that god made with man in his pure nature , the infants should have been in the church , and a people holy to god , if the parents had so continued themselves . and consider . that holiness and righteousness were then the same things as now , and that in the establishing of the way of propagation , god was no more obliged to order it so , that the children of righteous parents should have been born with all the perfections of their parents and enjoyed the same priviledges , then he was obliged in making the covenant of grace to grant that infants should be of the same society with their parents , and have the immun●ties of that society . . we have no reason when the designe of redemption is the magnifying of love and grace , to think that love and grace are so much les● under the gospel to the members of christ , then under the law to the members or seed of adam , as that then all the seed should have partaked with the same blessings with the righteous parents , and now they shall all be turned out of the society , whereof the parents were members . . god gives us himself the reasons of his gracious dealing with the children of the just from his gracious nature , proclaiming even pardoning mercy to flow thence , exod. . and in the d . com. . god doth yet shew us that in many great and weighty respects he dealeth well or ill with children for their parents sakes : as many tex●s of scripture shew ( and i have lately proved at large in one of our private disputes , that the sins of nearer parents are imputed as part of our original or natur●l guilt . ) so much of that . answ. . all these considerations , if they were yeelded to be true , would as well prove that by the light of nature infants should be invisible churchmembers as visible ( which would contradict the scripture , rom . , , , , , , , . ) yea rather , sith the th . consideration upon which the inference rests chiefly , is from the state in which persons were put by creation and redemption , which is into the invisible rather then the visible . now then if these considerations are not sufficient to assure parents who are in the invisible church that their infants are in the same society , neither are they sufficient to assure them they are visible churchmembers . . it is a calumny of mr. b. which is insinuated as if i held that all the seed of believers shall be turned out of the society whereof the parents were members . . it is a gross conceit , and contrary to the plain doctrine of the scripture , concerning election and reprobation of jacob and esau , which is intimated , as if the designe of redemption under the gospel to the members of christ should be , that as the members or seed of adam , so all the seed should partake of the same blessings with the righteous parents . . what hee saith he hath largely proved in one of the private disputes at kederminster among the associate ministers in worcestershire ( as i conjecture ) i do not contradict peremptorily , as not knowing how he stated the question , nor what his proofs were , yet it seems to mee to be an errour , nor am i very apt to give assent to mr. bs. determinations , however the associate ministers may perhaps take him for a pythagoras , whose ipse dixit must not be gainsaid . once more saith he , yet before i cite any more particular texts , i will add this one argument from the tenour of the covenant of grace as expressed in many texts of scripture . according to the tenour of the covenant of grace , god will not refuse to be their god and take them for his people , that are ( in a natural or law sense ) willing to be his people , and to take him for their god. but the infants of believing parents are thus willing , ergo. the major is unquestionable . the minor is proved from the very law of nature before expressed ▪ infants cannot be actually willing themselves in natural sence , ergo , the reason and will of another must be theirs in law sence , and that is of the parents , who have the full dispose of them , and are warranted by the law of nature to choose for them ( for their good ) ●ill they come to use of reason themselves . the parents therefore by the light and law o● nature choosing the better part for their children , and offering and devoting them to god , by the obligation of his own natural law , he cannot in consistency with the ●●ee grace revealed in the gospel , refuse those that are so offered and those that thus come to him in the way that nature it self prescribeth , he wi●l in no wise cast out , ... . and he will be offended with those that would keep them from him , that are offered by those that have the power to do it , though they cannot offer themselves . for legally this act is taken for their own . thus i have shewed you ●ome of the fundamental title that infants of believers have to churchmembership , and our obligation to dedicate them to god. answ. they are ( as i conceive mr. b. ) willing to be gods people in a natural sence , who do in their own persons actually will this ; in a law sence , who having not use of reason themselves , do will by another who hath the dispose of them , as v. g. a parent . that some acts of a parent are legally taken for the childs , it 's not denied . but in this argument of mr. b. i deny the major . and whereas mr. b. saith , it is unquestionable , i say , it is manifestly false , there is no such thing in the tenour of the covenant of grace ; yea , god did refuse ishmael , and esau , though abraham and isaac prayed for them , and dedicated them ( in mr. bs. sense ) to god. what mr. b. dictates by way of proof , whether of the major or minor ( which i think he did not well heed ) is not true ▪ infants cannot will of themselves , therefore the reason and will of another must be theirs in law sence . for it follows n●t , unless the law-giver do ordain it so . nor doth it follow , that if the infants cannot will , and anothers will must be theirs in law sence , it must in church matters be the will of the natural parents . for in such things it may be as well conceived that the will of the mother the church ( as it is termed , ) the church-governours , or as some will the gossips should be their will in the law sence , and that they have the power to dispose of them , and are warranted by the law of nature to choose for them ( for their good ) as the natural parents . the speeches [ the parents by the ●ight and law of nature choosing the better part for their children , and offering them , and devoting them to god by the obligation of his own natural law , he cannot in consistency with the free grace revealed in the gospel , refuse those that are so offered , ] is false , the gospel no where ●ssuring grace to those that are offered by anothers will , but to those who repent and believe themselves . the speech [ and those that thus come to him in the way that nature it self prescribeth , he will in no wise cast out , joh. .. ] is false , it being certain god hath cast out many so comming , as esau , ishmael , &c. and hath a tincture of p●●agianism ; and the text , joh. . . to which mr. b. alludes , is grosly abused by him , sith it speaks onely of th●se that come to christ by their own faith , and of not casting out from the invisible church , and everlasting life , as v. , . shew , not meerly from the visible church . and the speech [ and he will be offended with those that would keep them from him that are offered by those who have the power to do it , though they cannot offer themselves , ] being meant of not baptizing them , is also false ; and the contrary is true , that he will be offended with those who baptize infants which he never appointed , but profane the ordinance , being appointed onely for them who are themselves disciples and believers . and thus mr. bs. fundamental title to infants visible churchmembership is blown up . mr. b. adds . you must now in reason expect , that infants church-membership being thus established , partly in the law of nature , and partly in the fundamental promise , what is after this spoken of it should not be any new establishment , but confirmations and intimations of what was before done , rather giving us the proof that such a law and promise there is that did so establish it , then being such first establishing laws or promises themselves . and from hence i may well add this further argument . if there be certain proof in scripture of infants churchmembership , but none except this before alledged that makes any mention of the beginning of it , but all speaking of it as no new thing , then we have great reason upon the forementioned evidence , to assign this beginning which from gen. . we have exprest . but the former is true , ergo the later . you confess that infant●s were churchmembers once . you onely conceive it began when abraham was called out of ur. your con●●t hath not a word to support it in the text. the right to such a blessing was then new to abrahams seed , when ab●aham first believed : but when it began to belong to infants of believers in general , no text except this before cited doth mention . nor doth that promise to abraham intimate any inception then as to the churchmembership of infants , but onely an application of a priviledge to him that in the general was no new thing . answ. mr. b. mistakes in conceiving visible churchmembership to belong to infants of believers in general , and therefore it must be derived from gen. . . i retort his argument . if there be certain proof in scripture of infants churchmembership , but none except in the nation of the hebrews , and that had its beginning at the call of abraham out of ur , and ended at the rejection of the jews , then infants visible churchmembership began with abrahams call , and now ceaseth . but the antecedent is true . ergo , also the consequent . the consequence is in effect mr. bs. in the minor the first and third propositions are proved by the dispute before : for the second [ that the nation of the hebrews began with abraham , ] besides the allegation before of nehem . . acts . . where he is called their father , and the story of the hebrews begun from abrahams call , the words of the prophet , isa. . , . are express to this purpose ; calling abraham and sarah the rock whence they were hewen , and the hole of the pit whence they were digged , abraham their father and sarah that bare them , and mentioning gods calling him alone , blessing him and increasing him as the cause of it ( which doth prove that it was by the transeunt fact which i described , not by mr. bs promise and precept that they were churchmembers ) and this as a new thing , god having chosen no other people of the earth as he did the jews , deut. . . and therefore i deny mr. bs. minor , and conclude , that visible church-membership of infants was onely in the nation of the hebrews ; not by a promise to be a god to believers and their seed , and a precept to parents to dedicate them to god , and list them in christs army ; but by the transeunt fact of calling abraham , blessing , multiplying him , bringing them out of aegypt to himself , which was to be demonstrated . l●t●s yet view mr bs. confirmations , whether they be any better then his primitive establishments . sect . lix . the sayings of adam , eve , noah , concerning cain , seth , shem , the term sons of god , gen. . . prove not mr. bs. law of infants visible church-membership unrepealed . now for the texts , saith he , that further intimate such a foregoing establishment . . there seems to be some believing intimation of this in adams naming his wife the mother of the living : for it is to be noted what bp , usher saith , annal vol. . p. . unde tum primum ( post semen promissum ) mulieri evae nomen a marito est impositum , gen. . . quod mater esset omnium viventium non naturalem tantum vitam , sed illud quoque quod est per fidem in semen ipsius , messiam promissum : quomodo & post eam sara fidelium mater est habita . pet. . . gal. . . ] he put this name on her after the promise , because she was to be the mother of all the living , not onely that live the life of nature , but that which is by faith in the messiah her seed . so that as she was the root of our nature , we are her natural seed ; and as she was a believer , and we the seed of her a believer , so is she the mother of a holy seed , and we that are her seed are holy , as a people visibly dedicated to god. answ. though the exposition were allowed , and the inference thereon , that we that are her seed , that is by faith in the messiah , are holy ; yet it follows not that we are so as a people visibly dedicated to god , much less that our infants are so without their own faith by vertue of their parents dedication : and therefore this text , according to mr. bs. exposition ( which yet may be questioned ) yeelds no confirmation of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed . . saith he , when cain was born , his mother called him [ possession ] because she had obtained a man of the lord , that is , saith ainsworth , [ with his favour , and of his good will , ] and so a son of promise , and of the church . and therefore it is to be noted , that when cain had sinned by killing his brother , god did curse him , and cast him out of his presence , gen. . , . so that he was excommunicate and separated from the church of god , saith ainsworth , [ that is , from the place of gods word and worship which in likelihood was held by adam the father , who being a prophet , had taught his children how to sacrifice and serve the lord. so on the contrary , to come into gods presence or before him , chron. . . is explained in psal. . to be the comming into his courts . ] very many learned men give the same exposi●ion of it . now if cain were now excommunicate , then was he before of the church : nay it 's certain by his sacrificing , and other proof , however this text be interpreted : but no man can give the least reason from scripture to make it so probable 〈◊〉 he entred into the church at any other time , as we give of his entrance at his nativity . answ. eve doth not say , that she possessed a son of god , member of the church from the lord , but a man , by vertue of the power given to the parents for procreation , gen. . . notwithstanding the curse , gen. . . which was from the lord , psal . . gen. . . that is , by his providence , and in some respect with his favour and good will , considering her desert , and danger it was that she possessed him when both their lives were in so great hazard . that cain was a churchmember visible from his infancy hath no probability , there being no hint of it in that text , or any other . the proofs that infant visible church-membership was onely in the hebrew nation , have beene shewed before . also , saith mr. b. when eve bare seth , she so named him as a son of mercy in faith , as appointed her by the lord to be in abels room , faithfull as abel , and the father of our lord afte● the flesh , as ainsworth on gen. . . and is there no intimation in this that seth was an infant member of the visible church ? i confess he that shall excommunicate this appointed seed , or saith , that seth was without the church in his infancy , doth speak in my ears so improbably , and so unlike the scripture , that i am very confident i shall never believe him . answ. nor should i , meaning as mr. ainsworth , seed ] that is another son : that as abrahams seed was called in isaac ( ishmael being excluded ) gen. . . so eves seed should be in seth , tha● is the elect seed , and so he a member of the invisible church in infancy ; and yet there 's no in●imation that ●e was an infant member of the visible church , from which ishmael was not excluded . in which though i p●ace not seth , yet i do not thereby excommunicate seth , or say that he was without the church in his infancy . mr. b. adds . note also , that as god had thus cast out cain , and supplied abels room by seth and had given each of them posterity ; so we find him in a special manner registring the successors of the righteous , and putting two titles on these two distinct generations , calling some the sons of god , and others the daughters of men , gen. . . supposing that you reject the old conceits that these sons of god were angels that fell in love with women , the current ordinary exposition i think will stand , that these were the progeny of seth , and other members of the church , who are called the sons of god ; and that it was the progeny of cain , and other wicked ones , that are called the daughters of men . where note that they are not themselves denominated wicked , but the children of men , as being a generation separated from the church from the birth . and the other are not themselves affirmed to be truly godly ones , but son● of god , as being the seed of the saints not cast out , but members of the church , or the sons of those who were devoted to god ▪ and so devo●ed to him themselves : a separated generation belonging to god as his visible church . where note , that these that are called the sons of god , even the line of seth and other godly parents , were yet so wicked that god repented that he made them , and destroyed them in the floud , sparing onely noah and his family . so that it was not their own godliness that made them called the sons of god , but their relation , churchstate , and visible separation from open unchurched idolaters . compare this phrase with the like , deut. . . cor. . . in the former it 's said [ ye are the children of the lord your god , ye shall not cut your selvs , &c. ] where the whole people , infants and all are called gods children , as being a people separated to him from the idolatrous world ; and so in the next v. called a holy people unto god , peculiar to him , &c. and cor. . . come out from among them , and be ye seperate , &c. and i will be a father to you , and you shall be my sons and daughters , saith the lord almighty . ] so that gods sons and daughters are that society that are separated from idolaters unto the worship of god as the visible church is . and then it appears that the generation of the righteous , even from the womb , were ennumerated to the rest , in that they are not mentioned as a people called out here and there , and initiated at age ( here 's no mention of any such thing : ) but as a stock or generation opposed to the daughters of men , or of the unchurched , who were such from their infancy as all will grant . for it was not the same men that were the parents of those here called the daughters of men and the sons of go● ( though some of the later might be excommunicate when they fell : ) but it plainly intimates , that it was another sort of men that these were the daughters of , then those that were parents to the sons of god. so ainsworth in loc . [ the sons of god , i. e. the men of the church of god , for to such moses saith , deut. . . &c. joh. . . daughters of men , meaning of cains posterity that were out of gods church , gen. . . ] so our annotations , and many more . answ. . there is not sufficient evidence in the text to prove it , that the sons of god were of seths , and the daughters of men of cains posterity : they might be some of the daughters of men of seths , and some of the sons of god of cains progeny , notwithstanding what is in the text . and there is this reason against it , that sith gen. . . it is said , that cain went out from the presence of the lord , and dwel● in the land of nod on the east of eden , and that he built a city called enoch , that the posterity of cain and seth dwelt so far one from another , that they had not occasion to see one another so as to fall in love with their beauty . and whereas it is clear that adam after he begat seth begat sons and daughters gen. . living years , and that the great change in religion was about the time of enos birth gen. . . the sons of god and daughters of men might be of other races then cain and seth. but i shall not contend about this . . nor is it manifest that either sort of persons are ca●led so from their descent , or church-state by birth . for the one are not called the sons of god from their birth , but practise or profession , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith chrysostom hom . on genes . because until then they did imitate their progenitors vertue , piscat . analys . gen. per filios dei intelligendi sunt i● qui re●igionem puram profitebantur , praesertim ex sethi & enoskhi posteris ▪ gatak . adv . p●ochen . c. . apud quos religionis verae professio hactenus perstiterat . usher annal. vol. . p. . ad an . m. . sethus annos natus filium genuit cui enoshi nomen imposuit : quod conditionis humanae deplorandam denotat miseriam , tunc enim a camitis cultus divinus miserè corruptus fuit : unde ea inter homines distinctio fa●●a ; ut qui in verò dei cultu permanserunt fil●i dei ; qui autem ab eo desciverunt filii hominum sint appellati . gen , . . cum . , . christoph. cartwright annot ▪ ad gen. . . at ex textu apparet hosce dei filios professione po●iùs quàm reipsa s●nctos fuisse . the new annot. on gen. . . sons of god ] rational creatures and of humane kinde ; yet in this place distinguished from the daughters of men , not onely by their sex , but by their qualities or relati●ns ; by their qualities , as persons of some eminent endowments or estimation above others as ( what is excellent is in the scripture phrase especially entituled unto god , as the garden of eden , ezek. . . & ch . . v. , . the hill of god , ps. . . ) or by their relations , as such as descending from seth and enosh professed the true worship of the true god , and so became capable of the title of the sons of god , deut. . . cor. . . whence i infer , that in the judgement of these authors they are termed the sons of god not from their churchmembership by bi●th , but their profession and practise . on the other side , the parents of the daughters are termed men not from their discent by birth , or exclusion out of the church by birth , but as the term [ man ] is taken for corrupt unregenerate men as ainsworth , so paul cor. . . piscat . sch . in gen. . . nisi potius est ut nomine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adam hîc intelligatur primus ille generis humani parens : ut significetur illas ge●●isse imaginem illam secundùm quam adamus genuit liberos , non autem ●uisse regineratos spiritu dei. which exposition is very likely that they are termed daughters of adam , not daughters of men , because they were corrupt as adam , a● gen. . . adam is said to beget a son in his own image corruptus corruptum , as pisc. sch . in locum , in opposition to gods image . v. . so hos. . . and then daughters of adam doth not note their discent but qualities and practise , as daughters of sara pet. . . that is , that they revolted from the true worship of god , as adam from god. which things premised , i deny . that it is true that the women are not themselves denominated wicked , but the children of men , as being a generation separated from the church from the birth . for there is nothing in the text that proves the men were the posterity of cain , nor that all the posterity of cain were out of the church , nor that these men were out of the church , though they were corrupt persons or degenerate members , and therefore nothing to prove they were excluded from the church from the birth , by reason of their discent . and it may bee well conceived that the term [ daughters of adam ] doth note th●ir wickedness as treacherously departing from god as he did . i deny they are termed [ sons of god ] who chose the daughters of adam for their beauty , as being the seed of the saints , &c. but as being at least in appearance holy and true worshippers and chosen by god , they are so denominated no● from their discent from the godly , for then they had been called the sons of the saints rather then of god , but from their profession and pract●se , if the interpretation of aben ezra that they were the sons elohim of the judges or mighty or that other that they were eminent persons , hold not . . i deny that it can be proved that these sons of ●od were not truly godly , or that that they were so wicked that god repen●ed that he made them , and destroyed them in the flood . for neither doth their love of women prove they were not truly godly , solomon is judged truly godly nehem. . . though hee fell perhaps more deeply into the same sin . sampson was a believer heb. . . yet sinned this way . nor doth that which is said gen. . , , . prove it , for that is rather to be understood of the nephilim or giants , or the posterity of the the sons of god mentioned v. . rather then of the sons of god themse●ves ▪ v. . and therefore it is not proved that it was not their own godliness that made them called the sons of god , but their church state . nor is the●e any thing deut. . . that proves the sons of god gen. . . were such from their infancy as born of churchmembers for they are the sons of gods there either by profession or special choice v. ● . not from their parentage . much less is there any thing cor. . . to that purpose , for the promise of son-ship there is not from birth but obedience v. . and as gen. . . their being made sons of god is not exprest to be by calling , so neither is it said to be by humane generation , nor doth it follow if the daughters of men were such from their birth , the sons of god must be so from their birth , no not though sons of god noted a generation or stock , as it doth not follow that because that which is born of the flesh is flesh from the birth , that that which is born of the spirit is spirit from the birth , joh. ● . . also , saith mr. b. an intimation of this priviledge , and that they were sons of mercy and of the promise , appeareth in the very names of many of the children of the righteous , both before and after the flood , which i will not stand on particularly . answ. this is granted , but proves not their visible churchmembership from their birth . he adds ▪ and when all the world had so defiled themselves , that god was resolved to cut them off ▪ he spared noah and his family or sons . though cham was to be cursed , yet was hee of the church which worshipped the true god , and spared as a son of noah , and one of that society . and if god so far spared him then for his fathers sake as to house him in the ark ( the type of the church ) hee sure took him to be of the same society in his infancy , and then bare him the same favour on the same account . answ that the ark was a type of the church is not said in scripture , it is rather made a type of baptism pet. . . but let it bee granted the ark was a type of the church , and that cham was in the ark for his fathers sake and a memb●r of the church , yet it followes not he was so in infancy , he might be so as a worshipper of the true god , though himself in other things corrupt . again saith mr. b. as soon as noah came out of the ark god blessed himself in his issue ▪ as he did adam , with an [ increase and multiply ] and made a covenant with him and his seed after him . which covenant though the expressed part of it be that the earth should bee drowned no more , and so it was made with the wickedst of noahs seed , and even with the beasts of the field , yet doth it import a special favour to noah and his seed , as one whom god would shew a more special respect to , as he had done in his deliverance , and upon this special favour to him the creatures fare the better . for though the word [ covenant ] be the same to man and beast , yet the diversity of the promissary and his capacity may put a different sense on the same word , as applied to each . and indeed it should seem but a sad blessing to noah to hear an [ increase and multiply ] if all his infant posterity must be cast or left out of the visible church , and so left as common or unclean . this were to encrease and multiply the kingdome of the devil . if he that was so mercifully housed in the ark with all his children , must now bee so blest as to have all their issue to be out of the church , it were a strange change in god , and a strange blessing on noah ! and an uncomfortable stablishing of a covenant with his seed , if all that seed must bee so thrust from god and dealt with as the seed of cursed cain . answ. though the covenant gen. . . should import a special favour to noah and his seed more then to the beasts ( which yet the text expresseth not ) yet that this should be infants visible churchmembership followes not , nor is it likely , sith then all the infant posterity ▪ yea all the seed of noah , and consequently all the men of the world since then should be visible churchmembers . nor was th● blessing of multiplying sad to noah , reduced to such a paucity , though his infant posterity were not of the visible church , nor were they any more common and unclean thereby , then they should have been if so taken , nor had this been to increase and multiply the kingdome of the devil , they that are not visible churchmembers may be of the kingdome of christ and not of the kingdome of the devil . i say not all noahs issue was out of the church , yet the leaving out infants from the visible church , shewed no change in god from what hee was to them when he housed the sons of noah in the ark , nor doth it any whit lessen the blessing expressed gen. . . nor doth it infer that all that seed must be thrust from god and dealt with as the seed of cursed cain . these are but frivolous inferences fit onely to scare weak heads . moreover , saith he , it is certain that noah did prophetically , or at least truly pronounce the blessing on sem and japhet . and in shems blessing he blesseth the lord his god , shewing that god was his god and so in covenant with him . and it is plain that it is not onely the persons , but the posterities of his three sons that noah here intended . it was not cham himself so much as canaan and his succeeding posterity that were to be servants to shem and japhet , that is to their posterity . and the blessing must be to the issue of shem , as well as the curse to the issue of cham. and indeed a hebrew doctor would take it ill at that expositor or divine whatsoever that should presume to exclude the infant seed of them out of gods church . and wel they may , if in the blessing god be pronounced to be their god. saith ainsworth in loc . [ under this sem also himself receiveth a blessing : for blessed is the people , whose god jehovah is , psal. . . and eternal life is implied herein , for god hath prepared for them a city of whom he is not ashamed to be called their god , heb. . . and sem is the first man in scripture that hath expresly this honour . answ. i grant that not onely the person of shem , but his posterity were blessed ; nor do i deny god was their god , nor that their infant seed was in gods church : but this doth not prove their visible churchmembership in infancy , but rather their invisible churchmemship , for that is imported by the phrase of being their god , as mr. ainsworths exposition intimates . god was god to jacob in his mothers womb , yet he was not then a visible , but an invisible church-member . moreover ( saith mr. b. ) in gen. . . in japhets blessing there is much , though in few words , to this purpose intimat●● . first , note that the jewish church is called [ the tents of sem. ] from whence it appeareth , that the church priviledges of that p●ople begun not with or from abraham , but were before : and that it is the same church that was of shem and of abraham , and after all the additional promises to abraham , the jewish church is still denominated [ the tents of sem : ] now they were the tents of sem before abrahams days . and therefore it is clear , that it being the same church , must be supposed to have t●e same sort of members or materials : and therefore infants must be members before abrahams days as well as after . that church which was sems tents had infant churchmembers ( for the jewes church is so called , into which japhet was to pass : ) but the church both before and after abraham was sems tents . ergo. answ. that the tents of sem note the jewish people , is not improbable : but then it is as certain that they are so called , not from what they were in sems days , at least not what they were when noah prophesied , but what they were to be afterwards when they were formed to be a peculiar people ; and they are sems tents , because they descended from him . and this is clear even from what mr. b. and all grant , that what is here said was accomplished in the posterity of sem , japhet and cham. and therefore it followes not that if the jewish people had infants churchmembers visible , it must be so in sems dayes , because they are termed sems tents , sith they are so termed from their discent , not from the state of the church in sems time . nevertheless if it bee granted that sems tents are the church of god in sems family in his days , it will rather prove it to note the invisible church then the visible . for the dwelling in the tents of sem in mr. bs. and their sense whom he follows , is by faith , and so the tents of sem must note the invisible church of true believers , of whom god is god as he was of sem , the israel of god , as they are termed gal. . . not the jewish church visible , and they were joyned by perswasion , and therefore not infants , who were to dwell in sems tents , and consequently infants visible churchmembership is not hence proved . and to mr. bs. argument i answer by granting the conclusion , if by sems tents be meant the invisible church , if the jewish people , the minor is denied . he goes on thus . yet further let it here bee noted , that it is into shems tents that japhet must pass . i suppose that the evidence is better here for that exposition that applieth the word [ dwell ] to japhet then to god , and so that this is spoken of the conversion of the gentiles , as many expositors have cleered at large . and so , as ainsworth saith , the sense is that japhet shall be [ united with the churches of the jews , the posterity of sem , which was fulfilled when the gentiles became joint heyr● , and of the same body , and joint partakers of gods promise in christ , the stop of the partition wall being broken down , &c. eph. . . & . , . although it may further imply the graffing of japhets children into the stock of the church , when sems posterity should bee cut off , &c. ] vid. ult . now if it be sems tents even the same church that japhets children must dwell in , then as sems infants were church-members , so must japhets , and not all his infant seed bee cast or left out . so that here is a promise of infant churchmembership unto the gentiles in these words . answ. for my part , for ought i yet discern , mr. nicholas fuller his exposition in his ●d . book of his miscellanies theological ch . . seems more right then that which mr. b. and many other expositors follow , to wit thus , god shall enla●ge the coasts of the posterity of japhet in asia , europe , and america , and god shall dwell in the tents of sem , that is , christ or god manifested in the flesh , shall dwell in the tents of sem ; that is among the jews , being of their stock , as it is john . . and canaan shall be servant to the israelites , and the posterity of japhet , as the canaanites , egyptians , carthaginians and other people of cham have been , being conquered by joshua , alexander the great , the romans , and other people . nor do i see how mr. bs. interpretation can be right , sith when japhet was perswaded to dwell in sems tents , chams posterity also were perswaded , and canaan was no more a servant in a spiritual sense , no nor so much as sems tents the jewish people ; nor were the gentiles perswaded to dwell in sems tents , that is , in the jewish church visible ; but it was quite dissolved , and they a separate church from them . and therefore it is most manifestly false , that the children of japhet must dwell in sems tents , that is , the same visible church jewish , and therefore the inference is wrong , there are infant visible members in the gentile church christian : yea sith according to mr. bs. own exposition , the gentiles were by the perswasion of the gospel , as it is ephes. . . of the same body , none of the gentiles were of the same body but those who were perswaded by the gospel , which cannot be said of infants , and therefore the contrary follow , from mr. bs. own exposition , that infants were not to be visible christian churchmembers . sect . lx. mr. bs. law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , is not proved from gen. . or . or . we come next , saith mr. b. to the promise made to abraham , which i shall say the less to , because you confess it . but again note , that whereas your self make the beginning of gods taking the jews to be his people , and so of infants to be members of the church , to be at abrahams●all ●all from ur. . there is no one word of that in the text . . lot came out of ur with abraham , yea and from haran , and lived with him : were not lot and his infants churchmembers then ? answ. . i confess a promise to abraham , but not that abraham or his infants were visible churchmembers by it , as the so●e or next efficient cause . . what word is in the text for the beginning of the jewish people to be gods church at abrahams call out of ur , is shewed above , from isai . , . nehem. . . acts . , . . lot came along with abram to canaan , but was there parted from him , and all along they were severed , and therefore lot though a righteous man , yet was not of the same church with abrams house , nor his infants if he had any , visible churchmembers , because god intended not to make his house and posterity his church visible . . saith mr. b. the chief note i intend is this , that there is no more said then to prove infants churchmembers , then what wee have shewed was said long before , and is said after the gentiles infants , no nor so much . if therefore the passage of abraham out of ur , yea or the promise made to him in haran , gen. . , . will prove infants churchmembership , then have we as good proof of it to the gentile church as to the jews . answ. i neither make abrahams passage out of ur , nor the promise in haran ( or rather in ur. gen. . , . ) to be that which made infants visible churchmembers in the hebrew nation , but gods special call , or taking the house of abraham entirely to bee his people , which mr. b hath not nor can shew to have been done to any other people . and here , saith he , i note further , that in the beginning before the command for circumcision , you plainly yeild that infants church-membership is a thing separable from circumcision , and begun not with it , but before . and indeed i think i have evinced that to you in my book of baptism . abraham himself was not made a member by circumcision , but circumcised because a member of christs church by faith ▪ ishmael was a member before , and so was isaac , and the infants born in abrahams house . answ. i grant visible churchmembership was before circumcision in abrahams house , but not that abraham was circumcised under this formal consideration , as a member of christs church by faith , but as one to whom it was commanded by god. mr. b. goes on . whether there were any promise or precept of this ( but a meer transeunt fact ) let the text last mentioned , and the following bear witness . gen. . , . [ in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed ] and gen. . , , . [ and i will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee — and i will be their god. and god said to abraham : thou shalt keep my covenant therefore , thou and thy seed after thee in their genera●ions . this is my covenant which you shall keep between me and you , &c. ] to vers . . in all this let these things be noted . . that here is an expres promise or covenant to abraham and his seed after him . . that it is not onely de praesenti , but for the future , called an everlasting covenant . . that this promise or covenant doth manifestly imply and include infants churchmembership ( as you confess . ) . that yet here is not the least word that intimates an institution of it de novo , but rather the contrary plainly intimated . the promises before gen. . are mainly about the multiplication of abrahams seed . what is that to churchmembership ? ( except what intimates the promised seed , of which anon . ) hagar hath a promise also of the multiplication of ishmaels seed . and the very precept of circumcision is onely one part of the infant members , viz. the males , and therefore it cannot be foundation of their churchmembership , which leaves out half the members . . note that the promise that god will be their god , doth expresly contain the churchmembership of the seed . . note that this is more then a transeunt fact , ergo being an everlasting covenant . had it been a natural transeunt fact , that had left no permanent title behind it in the obligation of the covenant , then it had been null and void as soon as spoken : then the word of god is but a bare sound and of no further force . . note that the apostle ( as is said ) rom. . , , , . doth fully manifest to us , that this promise was made to abraham as a believer , and that circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of faith which hee had , yet being uncircumcised : and therefore that the chief part of the covenant of having god for our god , and his taking us as his peculiar people , belongs to the gentiles as well as to the jews . . and he oft sheweth that the faithful are abrahams seed , and therefore the chief blessings of the promise belong to all the faithful . but one of the blessings was , that their infants should be comprehended in the same church and covenant , ergo , the infants of the faithful who are the heirs of the same promise , must be comprehended in it too . answ. . i deny not the promise gen. . . to include infants church-membership , but that i confess that it doth manifestly imply and include infants visible churchmembership mr. b. cannot shew . . the promise that god will bee their god , doth not expresly contain the visible churchmembership of infants . for god may be god to them who are not visible churchmembers , and he may not be god to them who are . . if in the promises gen. . , . gen. . . and the precept gen. . , . there be no institution de novo , nor foundation of infants church-membership , then in ants churchmembership visible ( which was not before abrahams dayes ) hath not foundation in the promises and precept , but the transeunt fact i have mentioned . . though i conceive that a transeunt fact may create a permanent title , as a gift , a delivery into our hands without a promise for future , may create a permanent title , nor do i deny that the covenant gen. . . did leave a permanent title behinde it ; yet i deny that the visible churchmembership of infants in abrahams house was by a title to be legally claimed , or by the covenant gen. . . as the causa procreans of it , though it might bee the causa conservans of it , in that it assured some of those acts whereby it was continued . . i deny that the apostle rom. . , , , . doth at all , much less fully manifest to us , that the promise gen. . . was made to abraham as a believer , though i grant what mr. b. infers from it in his th . note . the apostle doth plainly manifest , that in the gospel sense it was made to abraham as father of believers . . it is denied as most certainly false , that one of the blessings of the promise gen. . . to the faithful gentiles was , that their infants should be comprehended in the same church and covenant , yea the apostle concludes , and proves rom. . , , , , , , , . that all the posterity of abraham , isaac , and jacob , were not comprehended in that promise , and therefore the visible churchmembership christian of infants of gentile believers , c●n have no shew of proof from the promise gen. . . and precept v. . . . saith mr. b. i think it is not to bee made light of as to this ma●ter , that in the great promise gen. . . the blessing from abraham in christ is promised to all the families or tribes on earth [ all the families of the earth shall be blessed ] as the heb. samar . arabic . or [ all the kindreds ] as the vulgar lat. and chald. paraph. or [ all the tribes ] as the sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and doubtless it is by christ that this blessing is promised , and so a gospel blessing ( ergo the syriac . adds [ and in thy seed ] and the arab. hath [ by thee . ] ) and the apostle fully testifieth that . so that as tribes , kindreds , families , do most certainly comprehend the infants , and as it was to such families that the promise was made before christ as to the jewish church , so is it expresly to such families or tribes that the promise is made as to the gentiles since christ. answ. the blessing gen. . . is not visible churchmembership ( which may be without justification ) but justification , as the apostle expresly expounds it , gal. . . ( which may be without visible church-membership : ) nations there doth not comprehend every member of a nation , nor every one of a tribe or kindred , as it is acts . . but the elect , and believers of each nation , tribe , or kindred , as the apostle doth both v. . & . shew , terming them that are blessed those that are of faith . therefore though the scripture be not to be made light of , yet mr. bs. inference from thence is most vain , the promise being not of visible churchmembership , nor to nations , families , kindreds entirely , nor to infants of unbelievers or believers as such ; but to so many of all nations , kindreds , and families , as are believers or elect . whereby mr. b. may see how infants can be excluded these families , and this promise , without apparent violence to the text. . saith he , note that as infant churchmembership is here clearly implied in infant circumcision , so they are two distinct things ; and as the sign is here commanded de novo , so the thing signified ( i mean the duty of engaging and devoting to god as their god in covenant ) is commanded with it , though not de novo , as a thing now beginning as the sign did . so that here is in circumcision not onely a command to do the circumcising outward act , but also to do it as a sign of the covenant , and so withal for the parents to engage their children to god in covenant as their god , and devote them to him as his separated peculiar people . so that here are two distinct duties concurrent . ●he one external newly instituted , the other internal not newly instituted . and therefore the former may cease , and yet the later stand : and it 's no proof that the later ( covenant engagement of infants to god ) is ceased , because the sign of circumcision is ceased ; no more then it proves that such covenant engagement did then begin when circumcision did begin ; or that women were not churchmembers separated , engaged , dedicated to god in infancy , because they were not circumcised . and no more then you can prove that all israel was unchurched in the wilderness when they were uncircumcised for years . so that here you have a a command for entring infants as churchmembers . and so you see both promise and precept in gen. . & gen. . answ. i do indeed , but not such as mr. b. should produce , a promise of infants visible churchmembership , and a precept of their entring unrepealed ; there being no such promise of believers infants visible churchmembership , or precept of admission as visible churchmembers besides circumcision , which mr. b. will not sure say is unrepealed . as for his discourse of a duty of engaging , separating to god , and dedicating , which is internal , and not instituted de novo , it is neither in gen. . nor gen. . nor if it were , is it any thing to the purpose . for neither doth such an internal duty make or admit or enter an infant into the visible church , either jewish or christian. according to mr. b. himself , infants are visible churchmembers afore it , yea without it ; nor is the admission or entering into the church visible by it , but by an outward sign , as he himself determines , part . . ch . . of baptism : and this sure is now baptism , which mr. b. i presume will not now allow to parents , for then they should be ministers of the seals , which he counts one of my six errours . i never denied an internal duty of faith , prayer , vowing , &c. for the engaging and dedicating infants to god , prayer for them is practised by me in publick , but i deny that this makes them visible churchmembers , or admissable by baptism . he adds . and when i consider the parents , breeding , and manners of rebe●kah , i think it far more probable that she was a churchmember from her infancy , then that she was entred afterwards at age , or that she was a heathen or infidel when isaac married her . answ. what in the parents ; breeding , and manners of rebe●kah mr. b. observes , which should make it in any degree probable that she was a churchmember from her infancy , i know not : there are such things related gen. . of laban her brother , and rachel his daughters idols , as me thinks should move mr. b. to conceive , that either in that house there was no church of god , or at best a very impure one , though it is likely their idolatry and wickedness was not so great as that of the the canaanites , which made them more desirable and eligible wives for isaac and jacob , then the daughters of the canaanites , whom esau chose . mr. b. adds . and as here are before mentioned standing covenants , so it is to be noted how god intimateth the extent of the main blessing of them to be further then to abrahams natural seed , not onely in the express promise of the blessing to all the nations or families on earth ( of which before ) but in the assigned reason of the blessing which is common to abraham with other true believers . for gen. . , , . it 's thus alledged [ because thou hast done this thing , &c. and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed , because thou hast obeyed my voice . ] and gen. . , , . the covenant is renewed with isaac , and the same reason assigned , [ because that abraham obeyed my voice , and kept my charge , my commandments , my statutes and my laws . ] how mans obedience is said to be a cause of gods blessing , i am not determining ; but taking the words as i find them in general , i may conclude , that they are here given as a cause or reason of it some way or other . and though a special mercy may be given on a common ground or reason , yet where there is no apparent proof of the restriction , we are to judge the blessing common where the reason is common : at least , if a special blessing be superadded to abrahams seed ( upon the freeness of gods grace , or the eminency of abrahams obedience , ) yet there goes with it a mercy common to all where the reason of the mercy is found it being therefore the case of every true believer to be faithfull and obedient , yea , to prefer that before his own life , and not a son onely , it may be hence gathered , that god who blessed abrahams seed on that account , will bless theirs on the same , with the same blessings in the main ( as to his favour and acceptance of them ) though not with the same in the variable superadditionals or overplus of external things . answ. mr. b. like another procrustes ( though in vain ) would fain rack the texts gen . , , . & . , , . to his purpose . though i deny not but a common mercy may be granted on a special reas●n , and a special mercy on a common reason , god being a free agent ; yet in this business , the reason of abrahams mercy and the mercy it self are both so special and proper , that it is extream violence to the texts , to apply abrahams singular obedience in offering his son , so signally eminent , heb . . jam. . . to every believers obedience ; and the blessing granted to his seed , that it should be as the stars of heaven , as the sand on the sea shore , that in it all nations should bless themselves or be blessed , to every believers natural seed , and their visible churchmembership . this kind of arguing is too ridiculous to deserve a serious refutation . yet he hath not done . in exod. . . saith he , there is a law for the circumcising of all the males of strangers that sojourn in the land , that will keep the passover : which comprehendeth their churchmembership , as is shewed . answ. i grant there is , but not a law unrepealed . sect . lxi . covenants , promises , and speeches in the old testament , of israel , the righteous , prove not mr. bs. law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed . the promise ( saith mr. b. ) to the whole people of israel , infants and all , that they should be [ a peculiar people , a kingdome of priests , and a holy nation , ] exod. . , . you cannot deny . this is a promise , and not a transeunt fact which made no promise . and the people are called to keep gods covenant , that they might have this promise fulfilled to them ▪ yea , if you had said , that it was a meer transeunt covenant or promise , reaching but to the persons then existent , and dying with them , though you had spoken more sence , yet no more truth then when you denied the law and promise , and substituted a transeunt fact . for . it is expresly a promise de futuro to a nation . . yea , and the apostle peter giveth the same titles to believers under the gospel , intimating the fulfilling of the promise even to them , as the promise to abraham was to the faithfull who were his uncircumcised seed . however , here is a covenant granting by way of confirmation the blessing of churchmembership to infants with the rest of israel : for certainly , this peculiarity , and holiness , and priesthood here mentioned , containeth their churchmembership : it is undeniable therefore , that such churchmembership is here granted by promise or covenant , not as a thing then beginning , but by way of confirmation of the like former grants . and it 's to be noted , that though this promise is made to all israel , yet not to be fulfilled to any of them , but on condition that they [ obey gods voice , and keep his covenant , ] ver . . on which conditions also any other might have then enjoyed the same blessing , and therefore so may do now , answ. i never denied promises to be to the whole people of israel ; but deny that they were by a promise , as the sole efficient cause , gods visible church , and their infants members . the promise exod. . , . presupposed their churchmembership , and promiseth continuance of it in an eminent manner . the israelites were churchmembers without the condition of obedience before the law was given ; yea , ahaz , manasseh , &c. were visible churchmembers though they were idolaters , but they lost that peculiarity , holiness , priesthood , upon their disobedience , which was there promised ; and so did the people , they lost the dominion , temple , priesthood , urim , and thummim , and other priviledges which are meant thereby , and should have been continued if they had not broken gods covenant by idolatry . yet no other nation could have had that state though they had been obedient and kept the laws , god having given those laws peculiarly to that nation , and confined that honour to that people till the messiah came . and though peter , pet. . , . apply these to believers , yet not in the same manner as they are meant exod. . , . nor is any infant now of a believer a visible churchmember by vertue of that promise . in deut. . , . the infants ( saith mr. b. ) with the rest are called the children of god , and a holy and peculiar people to the lord their god. answ. be it so , yet this is not ascribed to a promise or precept , but to gods choise of them . and ( saith mr. b. ) deut. . , . the covenant is expressed [ thou hast avouched the lord this day to be thy god , and to walk in his ways , and keep his statutes , and his commandments , and his judgements , and to hearken to his voice . and the lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people , as he hath promised thee , &c. [ and that thou mayest be an holy people , &c. ] is here no promise when the promise is exprest ? and is here no covenant , where the mutual covenant is described ? and i think you grant that infants are included . answ. there is a promise of god to them , but that did not make their infants visible churchmembers , though i deny not their avouching the lord for their god ( which was a transeunt fact ) did shew them to be visible churchmembers , nor do i any where deny that our covenant or promise to god doth make us visible churchmembers , but gods covenant or promise to infants upon the parents faith , as mr. b. asserts . mr. b. adds . so deut. . , . where the promise to the nation is , that if they hearken to gods voice and observe his commandements , they shall be blessed in the fruit of their bodies , and the lord will establish them a holy people to himself , as hee had sworn unto them . ] here is not only a covenant and promise for the future , but also an oath confirming it , as annexed to the same before . is this establishing covenant or promise but a transeunt fact ? or doth not this confirm their right to the benefit promised , which was received before by the same means ? answ. it doth , but the benefit promised v. . is not infants visible churchmembership , but encrease , health , strength , such a blessing as they had in their cattel as well as their children , as psal. . , , . & . , , , . and many more places is expressed . and v. . though their churchmembership was established according to gods covenant and oath , yet the establishing was not the covenant , oath , or promise of god , but a transeunt fact of providence in preserving , teaching them , continuing his worship among them , and such like acts . and , saith mr. b. ezra . . they are called the holy seed . answ. not all the seed of israel are called the holy seed , but those onely who were legitimate , that is , begotten by lawfull marriage according to moses law : the rest were termed the mixed multitude , neh. . . whom they separated from the rest , ezra . . as being no churchmembers , that is , part of the congregation of israel according to the law , neh. . . deut. . . & . . exod. . . of which more is to be seen in the first part of this review , sect . . so that those ezr. . . are termed the holy seed , not barely by covenant upon the parents faith , nor as all visible professors , as dr. hammond , in his defence of infant baptism , pag. . but as begotten by an ●sraelite on an allowed wife by the law of moses . mr. b. proceeds ▪ of that in deut. . i have formerly spoke enough . it is called a covenant . all israel with their little ones did enter the covenant and the oath with god , and which he made to them . it was a covenant [ to establish them for a people to himself , and that he may be to them a god , as he had before said and sworn . ] it is a covenant made even with them that stood not there , whether it be meant onely of the successive israelites ( and then it 's not a transeunt covenant ) or of all people whoever that will accept of the same terms ( and then it 's not proper to israel . ) it 's a covenant not made to them as meer israelites : but as obedient to the covenant terms , and covenant breaking would cut them off , v. , , , , , . is not churchmembership contained in [ god 's being their god , and taking them for his people thus in covenant ? ] doth not the promise give them an established right in this blessing ? is all this then no promise , but a transeunt fact ? answ. what hath been spoken of deut. . by mr. b. in the dispute at bewdley , and in his book of baptism , part . ch . & . and his corrective , sect . . will be examined in that which follows . for present , . it is sufficient to shew the impertinency of this text , to prove that there the covenant or promise of god upon condition of parents faith is the sole efficient of infants visible churchmembership , in that the covenant being then put , even with the children unborn , v. . yea and the parents then believing , yet the children unborn could not be then visible churchmembers , as mr. b. himself grants of baptism , pag. . they that were not , could not be members visible or invisible . for the sole efficient cause being actually put ( as the covenant and the parents believing are , deut. . even according to mr. b. ) the effect must be in act : but it is not so in the unborn , therefore the covenant and parents faith are not the sole efficient . . the oath or covenant of god is a distinct act from his establishing them for a people unto himself , and being a god to them , which are the consequent upon it , and are by transeunt acts consequent upon the covenant . so that though the covenant give a right to a blessing , yet it doth not make actually visible churchmembers without some other transeunt fact consequent upon it . the covenant assures a future existence , but suppposeth a present absence of the thing covenanted , and consequently without a further act consequent on it makes not any in present being visible church-members . so that as yet i find no text of scripture setting down the law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership by gods promise upon parents faith or dedication commanded as the sole efficient unrepealed . l●t's view the rest . deut. . . saith he , there is a law and promise [ choose life , that thou and thy seed may live . ] this is the same covenant which asa caused the people to enter , chron. . and if there had been no law for it , there would have been no penalty , and then he would not have made it death to withdraw . it is the same covenant which josiah caused the people to enter , kin. . , . chron. . , . of levit. . , , . i have spoken elsewhere , and of some other texts . answ. . there is a law and promise deut. . but not such as mr. b. asserts as the sole efficient of infants visible churchmembership . the life there is not visible churchmembership , but a prosperous being in canaan , v. . and the distinction between [ thou and thy seed ] proves that deut. . . [ thou ] notes the captains , elders , officers , men of israel , v. . distinct from the little ones , wives , strangers , v. . though represented by them , and that my speech so much exagitated by mr. b. of baptism , p. , . was justifiable . . the covenants , chron. . & . , . kin. . , . of asa and josiah were covenants of israel to god , there 's no mention of gods promise or covenant to them as then made , and therefore it is not that whereby infants are made visible churchmembers according to mr. b. and so is impertinent to the point in hand . . the futility of mr. bs. argument from levit. . , , . is shewed in the d . part of this review , sect . it follows in mr. b. the second commandment , exod. . , . deut. . , . i think is a law , and containeth a promise or praemiant part , wherein he promiseth to shew mercy to the generations or children of them that love him and keep his commandments : of which i have also spoken elsewhere , to which i refer you . i see no reason to doubt but here is a standing promise , and discovery of gods resolution , concerning the children of all that love him , whether jews or gentiles , to whom this commandment belongs : nor to doubt whether this mercy imply churchmembership : and that this is fetcht from the very gracious nature of god , i find in his proclaiming his name to moses , exod. . , . answ. if this mercy here imply churchmembership to the infants of them that love him to a thousand generations , then it implies it to all the infants in the world , which cannot be true without such limitations as take away the certainty of any infants churchmembership existent . but there is nothing to prove that this mercy must be church-membership , or that it must be to all the children of them that love god , and are obedient , or that it must be to them in infancy , sith it may be true of other mercies , as preservation , provision , &c. to some onely , sith the speech is indefinite in a matter not necessary , and those persons at age , and loving god as their ancestors , without which the promise is not made good ; and therefore mr. b. had occasion enough to doubt whether this mercy implies visible churchmembership of all infants of visible professors or true believers , yea , he had cause to assure himself that it doth not , sith then it were not true in thousands of noahs , abrahams , and other holy mens posterity . wherefore all things considered , i incline to conceive this a promise of temporal blessings , chiefly to the israelites , to whom god intailed mercies more then to other people ; and if it be extended to higher mercies , and to other people , yet with reservation to himself of his free election , not without conditions and limitations as the event and other scriptures make necessary to be included , which will make it unserviceable for mr. bs. purpose . he adds . in psal. . . it is a general promise [ the children of thy servants shall continue , and their seed shall be established before thee ▪ ] it s usual in the old testament to express gods favour by temporal blessings , more then in the gospel ; but yet still they secure us of his favour . as [ i will not sail thee , nor forsake thee , ] might secure joshua more then us of temporal successes , and yet not more of gods never failing favour . answ. the words are not a promise of god , for they are directed to god , as the expressions [ thy servants , before thee , ] besides what is said before , v. , , , . shew , and therefore are not of the same rank with gods words to joshua , josh. . . yet they express such assurance as came either from a promise or a prophe●ical instinct . but whether the promise were general , or particular to some ; whether of temporal , or eternal blessings , is uncertain . the occasion seems to intimate this sense , from thy continuance , though we be now very low , yet we assure our selves that thou wilt not utterly cut off our children , but that thou wilt raise them up , notwithstanding our present desolations and captivity , or thou wilt re-ingraff them ( if meant of the conversion of the jews to christ , as hath been conceived ) and they shall continue either here as thy people a long time , or be thine for ever upon their calling again . either way , though they may intimate gods favour , yet not general to all his servants children , but to the jews ; nor to them do they intimate infant visible churchmembership , or to any other , but such a stability of their posterity in gods favour , and their obedience as is quite different from meer infant visible churchmembership , and may be without it . yet again saith mr. b. there is a stable promise to all gods people in general that have children , psal. . . [ but the mercy of the lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him , and his righteousness unto childrens children . ] and to be secured by promise of gods mercy and righteousness is the state of none without the church . answ. the promise must be understood of so many a●d such mercy and righteousness as that it may be true . but it is not true of all the children of them that fears god , that they are visible churchmembers , surely not of abortives and still-born children ; nor that they are partakers of saving mercy and righteousness , for ishmael , esau , &c. were not so : and therefore it must be understood of such temporal mercies , and so indefinitely as may agree to some out of the church , to whom god often shews mercy and righteousness of performing promises of preservation , increase , &c. which he shews not to others for their parents sake . and , saith mr. b. if they were all to be kept out of the church , i scarce think that [ children would be called an heritage of the lord , and the fruit of the womb his reward , ] psal. . . nor the man happy that hath his quiver full of them . nor would the sucking children be called as part of the solemn assembly to the humiliation , joel . . chron. . . answ. children may be an heritage of the lord , and his reward , though they be not visible churchmembers , as the land of canaan was an heritage , psal. . . and he may be happy that hath many of them , with that happiness which is mentioned in the forepart of the th . v. of psal. . though they be no churchmembers : and yet the infants of the israelites i acknowledge were members of that church or people , and that the psalmist speaks of them . and so do the texts , joel . . chron. . . though the assembling of them do no more prove them visible churchmembers , then the cloathing of beasts with sackcloth , jonah . , . doth prove the beasts churchmembers , it being usual in such national fears and humiliations to have all whatsoever to be among the mourners , whether churchmembers or not ; as the men of tyre were forced by nehemiah , ch . . . to rest on the sabbath . mr. b. adds . there is a standing promise to all the just , prov. . . [ the just man walketh in his integrity , his children are blessed after him . ] there is no sort of men without the church that is pronounced blessed in scripture . a blessed people are gods people , and those are the church separated from the cursed world . one lower blessing will not denominate a man or society , a blessed man or society . answ. it is a standing promise or observation : but that all his children are blessed , or that they are visible churchmembers , much less that there is a promise or law that all visible churchmembers infants should be visible churchmembers cannot be thence inferred . that without the church a person is pronounced blessed is apparent from ishmaels blessing , gen. . , . when he was excluded the covenant and cast out . yet more saith mr. b. if it were a good argument then , deut. . . [ because he loved thy fathers , therefore he chose their seed after them , ] then it is good still as to favour in general . so deut. . . psal. . . prov. . . the seed of the righteous shall be delivered . answ. it is no good argument , because god loving the fathers of the israelites chose their seed after them , therefore he chooseth the seed of every righteous man to be his people , or that he sheweth favour to them . the contrary is manifest in lot , job , and others , whose posterity god shewed not favour as he did to the posterity of abraham , isaac , and jacob , whereof the former is termed gods friend , james . . and it is certain from rom. . , . & . . that god did and will shew them that favour that he never did nor will shew to the posterity of any the most godly persons of other nations . what is said , psal. . . is said onely of the obedient israelites ; and if it be extended to others , it can be meant onely of those tha● love the name of god , and therefore makes nothing for the visible churchmembership of infants of believers either by profession or real . whether it be read , delivereth himself , as junius , or shall be delivered , it is neither universally true , as is manifest in the posterity of david , josiah , and others ; nor is any whit to the point of infants visible churchmembership , which may be without it , and that may be without it . nor is mr. bs. inference good , in psal. . . there is a general promise to , or declaration of the righteous , that [ his seed is blessed , ] and then they are churchmembers : for the text neither speaks generally of any righteous man , but of him that is mercifull and lendeth , and the v. before sheweth it plainly to be meant of outward blessing , as in freedome from extream want of bread , and the like , which must have its limitations that it may be true ; there 's not a word of their infant visible churchmembership . there 's yet a reserve of mr. b. which he thus marshals . in isa. . , . it is promised i think of gospel times [ i will make an everlasting covenant with them , and their seed shall be known among the gentiles , and their off●spring among the people : all that see them shall acknowledge them , that they are the seed which the lord hath blessed . and cap. . . they shall call them the holy people , the redeemed of the lord : and thou shalt be called , sought out , a city not forsaken . ] gospel promises then extend to [ people and cities , ] whereof infants are a part . isa. . . [ they are the seed of the blessed of the lord , and their off-spring with them . ] this is plain , and full , and durable . answ. be it so , yet is it all impertinent to mr. bs. purpose . if isai . , . be a promise of a thing to be fulfilled in gospel times , yet it cannot be meant of infants , sith it is affirmed that the seed shall be known among the gentiles , that is , saith mr. gattaker in his annot. they shall so grow and multiply , thrive and prosper , that they shall become very conspicuous , matth. . , . and that it shall evidently appear to all that see them , that there goeth a blessing of god along with them , acts . . which are spoken of the apostles and their preaching , not of infants and their churchmembership , isai . . is said of zion and jerusalem , v. . . and is thus by mr. gattaker in his annot. paraphrased . and men shall call them ( to wit sions sons or those that belong to her , and shall now again people her , vers . . ) the holy people , the redeemed of the lord ] such as god by rescuing and delivering them out of the hands of so powerful adversaries , in so strange a manner , hath shewed that he owneth for his . sought out ] or , sought unto , or sought after , as one had in high estimation and regard ; whom out of respect and regard men repair and resort unto . see psal. . . contrary to that which was formerly said of thee in the time of thy low and dejected estate , jer. . . a city not forsaken ] as she seemed to be formerly in the time of her captivity . see v. . which shews these things are meant of the jews safety and honour after their return from captivity , not of infants visible churchmembership under the gospel . yet if it were a prophesie of the gospel times , it followes not infants shall be visible churchmembers because cities comprehend infants . for in the gospel sense , nation , house , city , comprehend onely believers , and not infants of believers , as such , as appears from these and other texts . gal. . . ephes. . , . pet. . , . isa. . . is a prophesie of the welfare of the jews after their return from captivity , as v. , . before shew , and the meaning is as mr. gataker , diodati and others expound it , they shall not bring forth children as formerly to be consumed by war , pestilence and such evils , because gods blessing , which makes rich , healthy , safe , prosperous , is with them and their children : which sense is quite wide from mr. bs. conceit of a law of infants visible churchmembership in the time of the gospel . he yet adds , what is necessary to be said in answer to the common objections , as [ that experience tels us all the seed of the righteous are not blessed ] with the like , i suppose already done in my book of baptism . all the seed of the righteous are blessed , though not all with that blessing which cannot be lost and cast away by themselves when they come to age . answ. what is said in his book of baptism , will be examined when i come to it . for present it is but mr. bs. dictate that all the seed of the righteous are blessed , the indefiniteness of the scripture expressions the matter being contingent , experience and the apostles exposition of the promise gen. . . rom. . , , . are against it ; yet if it were true , ●t followes not it must be visible churchmembership , it might be some other blessing , of which god hath store , yea it is certain it canno● be visible churchmembership , sith abortives and still born infants , though the seed of the righteous , are never so blessed , and the children of the holy seed ezra . . begotten on prohibited women were to bee cast out of the jewish church . mr : b. adds , if you say that the word [ seed ] doth not necessarily include infants . i answer , infants are part of the seed of the righteous , yea all their seed are first infants . if therefore god have made general promises as to age and person , who is he that dare limit it , without just proof that indeed god hath limited it ? doth god say , that the seed of the righteous are not blessed till they come to age ? if he pronounce the seed blessed they must be blessed , when they are first such a seed : and if any one age might be more included then another , one would think it must bee that wherein they are so meerly the seed of such as that they stand not on any distinct account of their own actual faith or unbelief . for the seed of the righteous , as such , have a promised blessing : but the seed of the righteous turning themselves to unrighteousness , do turn from that blessing , and become accursed . answ. mr. b. not holding children in the womb unborn to be visible churchmembers all this may be retorted , they are part of the seed of the righteous , all their seed are such , how dare then mr. b. limit the general promises to infants born ? the seed is blessed , and so must be visible churchmembers when they are first such a seed , which is as soon as they are conceived in the womb , then they stand not on any distinct account of their own actual faith or unbelief . what mr. b. replies to this will answer himself . however i deny that without just proof it is to be so limited i limit the promises , that if god pronounce the seed blessed , they must be blessed when they are first such a seed , for then if the blessing be justification , glorification , they must be justified , glorified , afore they believe , or are obedient , which mr. b. condemns in antinomians . and if infants stand not on any distinct account of their own actual faith , they are not christian visible churchmembers , for all such are in their own persons first believers . nor is it true that the seed of the righteous as such ( taking it reduplicatively ) have a promised blessing . for then all and onely such should have it , and at all times , the contrary is manifest in cham , esau , &c. mr. b. concludes . i suppose i have already been more tedious then you expected : i will therefore add no more of these passages of scripture , having said that which satisfieth me formerly to the same purpose , and having yet seen nothing that leaves me unsatisfied . and also because one text either containing such a law or covenant as you call for , or declaring to us that god did make such a law or covenant , is as good as a thousand in point of authority . answ. it is true mr. b. hath been more tedious then was fit , considering the impertinencie of his allegations , yet not much more then i expected , knowing it to be his course especially in this controversie , to heap many texts impertinently . that he is satisfied with his former writings , especially after the answering of the chief parts by me and others , shews either his injudiciousness or his heedlesness , or unwillingness through prejudice to see his errour . that there is not one text for his purpose brought in his letter to me , is made manifest by this answer , the rest shall be examined after the answer to the remainder of his letter if god permit . sect . lxii . m● . bs. th . and th . qu. about the repealableness and repeal of his imagined law of infants visible churchmembership , and his eight additionals are answered . the next qu. saith he , that i should speak to is , whether these laws , or covenants , or promises , are capable of a revocation , or repeal ? and i shall take this for a question that needs no further debate , among men that know what a law or promise is . gods immutability and perfection may make some ●aws unrepealable , while the subject remains : but otherwise the thing it selfe is capable of it . onely where a promise or law is but for a limited time , when the time is expired it ceaseth , and the cessation is as to the nulling of it , equal to a revocation or abrogation . i put in this question , lest you should hereafter change your minde and say , that indeed it is a law , or promise , or covenant , by which the right of churchmembership is conferred , and infants dedicated to god : but it is but a transeunt law or covenant . ] answ. if so then it is either immediately or presently transeunt , or at a certain limited time onely , when it will cease . the former is certainly false and intollerable . for . they are promises and laws for the future , and therefore cease not immediately . . that were to make god the most unfaithful promiser and mutable law-maker in the world , if his promise and his lawes cease as soon as they are made . nay it makes them to be no lawes or promises . . it was one standing law and promise that belonged to the nation of the jewes successively . and god did not make his promise anew to every infant that was made a churchmember , nor renew his law to every parent to enter their children into his covenant by the signe of circumcision . were not the circumcised israelites in the wilderness made members by the efficacy of the former covenant of god remaining in force . and did former laws oblige to circumcision till christ ? else there were but few members , nor but few that circumcised warrantably , if the promise and precept did extend but to the person that it was first delivered to , and every one else must likewise have a personal promise and precept . the mother of christ cannot then be proved to have been a churchmember in infancy . if it be said that these promises were limited in the making of them , to a certain time when they were to cease , i say when that 's proved we shall believe it , which i have not yet seen done . answ. the occasion of this question i conceive to have been the words in my second letter , [ wherefore i still press you that you would shew me where that law , ordinance , statute or decree of god is , that is repealable , that is , which may in congruous sense be either by a later act said to be repealed or else to be established as a law for ever . ] the reason of my speech was , because i perceived by his former letter , mr. b. made his law unrepealed to be by promise and precept . now though i conceived a precept might in congruous sense be said to be repealed , yet i conceived a promise ( which it seems is the law he means ) not in congruous sense repealable . for though a promise be a law to the promiser , yet i know not how congruously it should be repealed . 't is true , the act of promising being transeunt ceaseth , but that cannot be repealed ; that which is done , cannot be infectum , not done . the obligation of the promise may cease , if it were limited to a certain time , and that expired ; or if it were upon condition , and that fails ; or to a person not existent , or of a thing not feasible , or unlawfull : the former is not by repeal , but by expiration , which mr. cawdrey doth distinguish from re●eal and substitution , of the sabbath , part . ch . . & part . ch . . the later are not by repeal of the promise ( for it stands in force as much as ever , ( but by accident through intervenient impediments there is for present an intermission of the obligation . repeal properly is by an after declaration , which cannot be congruously said of god , that he did promise indeed such a thing , but now he will not promise it , or will not stand to his promise , it were to make god fickle , and unfaithful . and therefore i expected a law of precept to make infants visible churchmembers , to bee assigned by mr. b. for mee to prove repealed , and not a law of promise , which is not in congruous sense repealable , and therefore a repeal properly so called not to be expected of me . which being rightly conceived answers this question , and saves me the reply to what he saith , to prevent an imaginary change of my minde and assertion not yet delivered . he adds . and it falls in with the last question , which is , whether these promises be indeed revoked and ceased , and these laws repealed or ceased . and here it is that i have long expected your solid proof , together with the satisfactory answer to my arguments to the contrary . and so i shall leave this task in your hands . sure i am that christ never came to cast out of the church , but to gather more in : much less to cast out all the infants , even all of that age in which himself was head of that church : but to gather together in one the children of god that were scattered , joh . . and therefore he would of● have gathered all jerusalem and judaea , even the national church that then was unto himself , as the true head , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings , and they would not . it was not because he would not ( as intending a new frame , where infants could have no place ) but because they would not , and so cast out themselves and their infants . certainly it is the joy of the formerly desolate gentiles , that they shall have many more children then she that had an husband , and not fewer , gal. . , , . and we as isaac are children of the promise , even that promise which extended to the infants with the parents . gal. . . answ. i have examined all that mr. b. saith in his answer to the th . question , and do profess that i finde no promise , no not in gen. . . of infants visible churchmembership , or any precept but that of circumcision , gen. . which mr. b. confesseth to be repealed in respect of the outward act , and for the dedicating of a childe to god by prayer to god to sanctifie it , or vow to bring it up for god if god give life , &c. or adjuration that they should cleave to god left in writing , or any other way upon record , i still allow it , and so need prove no repeal . so that in truth i see no reason mr. b. should expect that i should perform his task , of proving a repeal of that which is not , but that he should make good the task i impose on him to prove such a law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership by promise or precept unrepealed , which i expect to be done at latter lammas ; and to his confident speeches i reply . sure i am from luk. . . joh. . . that jesus christ came that many of the jewish church might be left or cast out of his church , from matth. . . and other places before alledged , that he intended to leave all infants out of his visible church since his comming in the flesh , though he were an infant head of the church , that though he died to gather together in one the children of god that were scattered abroad , joh. . . yet hee intended not to gather them into a visible church national comprehending infants , that he preached not to any infants , nor by his disciples baptised any of them , that it is false which mr. b. saith , that he would oft have gathered all jerusalem and judaea , even the national church that then was , unto himself as the true head , as his visible church , from matth. . . mark● ● . , . and the course he , john ba●tist , and the apostles followed , that he did intend a new frame of his church visible , where infants could have no place , that hierusalem which is above , the covenant of the gospel had more children in the gentile churches then the covenant of the law in the jewish church , though infants were not visible members in the christian church as they were in the jewish ; that the promise meant gal . . is not a pro●ise to a believer and his natural seed of visible church-membership , much less to every visible professour and his seed , but a promise of righteousness and blessing , and the spirit through the faith of jesus christ upon all them that believe , as is plain from gal. . , , , , , , , , , . but mr. b. hath yet more work for me . before i end , saith he , i shall be bo●d to put two or three questions to you out of your last letter . qu . did●o ●o nomine cease to be churchmembers , though they forsook not god ? ●nd so of the infants if they were sold in infancy ? if you affirm it , then prove it . if you deny it , then infants might bee churchmembers that we●e not of the commonwealth . answ. such servants and infants were members of the jewish commonwealth , as they were of the church , in right undoubtedly , in fact if they owned the jews god and moses laws , and submitted to the senate of elders , so far as they knew and could be permitted , if they did not , though they forsook not god , yet they were neither of the jewish church , nor commonwealth , as cornelius , acts th , was not of the jewish church or policy . none was of right of the jewish church , who was not of the commonwealth ; even then when they were violently held under a forraign power ( as when they were under the chaldean persian , greek and roman empires ) they did submit to both though with much reluctancy . qu. . if ( as you say ) it was on the jews rejection of christ that they were broken off from being gods people , were those thousands of jews that believed in christ so broken off , or not , who continued successively a famous church at hierusalem , which came to be a patriarchal seat . whether then were not the children of the disciples and all believing jewes churchmembers in infancy ? if no , then it was somewhat else then unbelief that broke them off . answ. the believing jews were not broken off from the people of god , but from the jewish people or church national which rejected christ : these believing jews continued a famous church after some time of publishing the gospel and the jews presecuting the faith , sepated from the jewish church , not having infants churchmembers , and they were broken off from the jewish church national not by unbelief , but by faith in christ to which they did adhere , and could not bee conjoyned to the jewish church without rejection of christ. mr. b. addes . if yea , then qu. . whether it be credible that he who came not to cast out jews , but to bring in gentiles , breaking down the partition wall , and making of two one church , would have such a linsey woolsy church of party colours , or several forms : so as that the church at hierusalem should have infant members , and the church at rome should have none . jews infants should be members and not gentiles . answ. christ came to cast out the unbelieving jews , not from the jewish church national , they continued still in it , but from the invisible church of true believers which was in that nation , to which was joyned the gentile church of true believers , which were all of one sort , whether at rome or hierusalem , to wit , all that had one spirit , one faith , one baptism ; not one infant in the visible church christian either at rome or hierusalem . qu. . if unbelief brake them , will not repentance graff them in ? and so should every repenting believing jews infants be churchmembers ? answ. faith and repentance will ingraff every penitent believer into the church invisible , the profession thereof will ingraff them into the visible church , but not their infants , though the believer bee a jew . qu ▪ . was not christs church before his incarnation spiritual , and gathered in a spiritual way ? answ. the invisible was , the visible jewish national was not . qu. . how prove you that it was a blemish to the old frame , that infants were members ? or that christs church then and now are of two frames in regard of the subjects age ? answ. i say not that it was a blemish , but that it was a more imperfect state of the church then in that and other re●ards . the later question is answered sect. , , . before . qu. . in what regard is the new frame better●d by casting out infants which were in the old ? answ. by leaving out infants and taking in onely believers , the church is more spiritual . qu. . whether any jew at age was a member of the old church without professing faith ( in the articles necessary to salvation ) repentance and obedience ? and wherein the supposed new call and frame doth in this differ from the old ; save onely that a more full and express revelation of christ , requireth a more full ex●ress faith ? answ. the former question is somewhat difficult , it being hard to determine what articl●s were necessary to salvation , which is a question so hard , that i should not be unwilling to learn of mr. b. this i can onely say , that i know not what profession each jew did make , or was to make . i find a confession injoyned deut. . and imprecation ch . . i finde idolaters , blasphemers , and some others adjudged to death , yet i finde not in the times of mal-administration of moses laws , that idolaters , and such great sinners were cast out of the church , but were members of it . the later is answered before often enough . mr. b. tels me . you may see the words near the end of your letter that occasion the . last questions , and towards the middle that occasioneth the first . as for your motion of my fully describing the priviledges of churchmembers , i shall add no more at this time to what is already elsewhere said of it . answ. i knew mr. b. so well , that i expected i should have questions enow , though i desired onely a few texts , it s his vain to multiply questions which might be omitted , and serve to weary the reader and respondent , and for advantage to himself to insult on his antagonist , though without cause . but how ill he deals with me in writing so many sheets about questions taken from my words , when i desired onely a line or two about his texts , and how ill he deals with me and the reader ▪ who will not distinctly shew me the priviledges of his visible church-membership , the denial of which he makes so hainous , and from which he argues so much , i leave to the considerable reader to judge . but mr. b. is yet more severe to me , after all my work in answering him , i must be corrected ere i be dismissed . sect . lxiii . mr. bs. ten calumniatory questions , and conclusion of his letter , are answered . and now ( saith he ) i have gone thus far with you , in an enquiry into the truth , i entreat you be not too much offended with me , if i conclude with a few applicatory questions to your self ▪ q. . is it not an undertaking as palpably absurd as most ever any learned sober divine in the world was guilty of , to maintain that [ infants were visible churchmembers not by any promise or precept , but by a transeunt fact , and that there was no law or ordinance determining it should be so , but onely a fact of god , which is a transeunt thing not repealable ? ] answ. i am resolved not to be angry with mr. bs. interrogatories he ministers to me , imagining he doth it like an ordinary in salutem animae , though i pitty him that takes so much on him as thus magisterially to censure what he does not , or will not understand , presuming perhaps he may take on him to determine as an irrefragable doctor , after so much magnifying of his writings by learned and unlearned ones . but to his question i answer negatively , and return it back to him : is it not an undertaking palpably absurd , to make visible churchmembership to be a right to a benefit by gods promise as the sole efficient , and anothers faith as the condition ? but , saith he , either by this fact you mean legislation and covenant making , or not : if you do : what a saying is it that infants were made churchmembers not by covenant , but by a covenant making , not by a law , but by a law making . if not : either you must say , that god makes duty without any law , and gives right to the benefit without any promise , or covenant-grant as the cause ; or else , that it is no benefit to have right to churchmembership , and no duty to enter into that relation , and to accept of that benefit , and to bee devoted to god. which ever of these wayes you chuse ( and one you must chuse , or change your opinion ) hath the world heard of any more unreasonable and ridiculous , or else more unbeseeming a divine , from a learned sober man of that profession ? pardon the high charge : let the indifferent ju●ge . answ. that i need chuse none of the wayes hee mentions , nor change my opinion , is amply shewed sect. . this high charge would have been le●t out had he more sobriety and humility . i look upon it and overlook it as ridiculous and contemptible , and go on . qu. . is it not a great disgrace to all your followers , that they will be led so far into such ways of schism , and be so confident that they are righter and wiser then others , and that by such unreasonable arguings and shifts as these , which one would think any man should laugh at that knows what a law , promise , or covenant is ? and do you not prove , that it is not because of the evidence of truth , but by your meer interest or confident words , these people are changed and held to your opinion ? do they know what [ a trans●unt fact is , that without law or covenant makes churchmembers ? ] i say , do they know this ? which no man that ever breathed till now , ner ever man will know again ? and do you not proclaim them men of d●stempered consciences , that dare go on in such a schism , on the encouragement of such fancies as were hatcht so long after their perversion , and never waking man i think did before so solemnly maintain . ] answ , ne saevi magne sacerdos . the followers of me in the point of baptism are not led by shifts , but the plain word of god , matth. . . mark . . acts . . & . . from which mr. bs. dream of a law or ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , his conceit of infants discipleship mediate by the faith of the parent , is too silly a conceit to draw an intelligent man that will examine it , specially when they have so plain scripture proof for their warrant , as the institution of christ and practise of the apostles , which they follow without schism , endeavouring a reformation of that great corruption of infant baptism , which hath been very pernicious to the church of god. if any schism have been , a great cause hath been in mr. bs. virulent charges of the truth , as if it were a damnable errour accursed of god , and his followers violent opposition ( of which bewdley hath had sad experience ) of men for doing their duty in being baptized after profession of faith , and breaking bread together , though convinced by mt. bs. own arguing in his book of baptism , pag. . that it should be so . and if in this point they conceive themselves righter and wiser then others , they are not to be blamed , having the plain word of god as interpreted even by paedobaptists themselves , yea almost all commentaries , for their warrant . and truly though i delight not in recriminations , yet i may justly retort mr. bs. words . is it not a great disgrace to all mr. bs. followers , that they will be led so far into such ways of schism as mr. b. leads them into , who would have none to have pastoral charge with publick pay , that will not admit to the lords supper the baby sprinkled , that inveighs against baptism of believers now used as if it were murther and adultery , that represents them that deny infant baptism in the most odious way he can to the world , and is so confident that he is wiser and righter then others , and that by such unreasonable arguings and shifts as these , a law and ordinance of infants visible churchmembership by promise and precept unrepealed no where extant , a discipleship by the parents faith mediately without any learning of their own , which one would think any man should laugh at that knows what visible churchmembership , or discipleship is ? and doth he not prove , that it is not because of the evidence of truth , but by his meer interest or confident word● , the people of kederminster , bewdley , and elsewhere , are changed from the truth of the scripture made known to them , and held to his opinion ? do they know wh●t an ordinance or law of infants visible churchmembership and mediate discipleship is , which i find not any man vented afore mr. b. and doth he not proclaim them men of distempered consciences , that dare go on i● such a schism as mr. b. and with him many persons are brought into by him from me , and the baptized in bewdley and elsewhere , on the encouragement of such fancies as were hatcht so lately , and never waking man i think did before mr. b. so solemnly maintain ? qu. . is it not a desperate undertaking , and dare you adventure on it , to justifie all the world before christs incarnation except the jews , from the guilt of not dedicating their children to god , to take him to be their god , and themselves to be his people ? yea , to justifie all jews against this charge , that should neglect or refuse to engage their children to god in covenant as members of his church ? and doth not he that saith there is no law , say there is no transgression ? answ. he doth : but mr. b. should remember there is a law against bea●ing false witness against his neighbour , which he much urgeth against mr. eyre and others ; but himself is deeply guilty of it in his high charges , and particularly in this ▪ that i justifie all jews neglecting to engage their children to god in covenant as members of his church , and all the world not dedicating their children to god. let him prove either , if he can ; if not , let him tremble at his desperate undertaking to uphold his lie of infant churchmembership and baptism by such lies as these , and fear the fate of liars . what i hold , may be seen in that which goes before . qu. dare you yet justifie also at the bar of god , all the world since christs incarn●tion from the guilt of sin , in not dedicating their children to christ and entering them into his covenant as members of his church ? dare you maintain that all the world is sinlesse in this respect ? answ. i dare justifie the non-baptizing them , and am assured mr. b. cannot justifie the baptizing of infant children . qu. . have you well considered of the fruit of your way● apparent in england and ireland at this day ? or have you not seen enough to make you suspect and fear whether indeed god own your way or not ? and is it any wonder if posterity be left in controversie about the history of former times , when you can venture , even in these times when the persons are living in our company , to tell me that [ you think i am mis-informed that they are anabaptists , and you think that there are very few of them that were ever baptized , ] when of many that we know , and multitudes that we hear of , there are so few that were not before against infant baptism , and the se●kers first such , and when the quakers themselves commonly cry down infant baptism ; and it is one of the questions that they send to ●e , and others to answer , [ how we can prove it by express scripture without consequences , or else confess ou● selves false prophets . answ. my ways in opposing infant baptism , and endeavouring to restore believers baptism , are such ( setting aside my infirmities ) as upon conside●ation i find cause not to be ashamed of , but to rejoyce in , and conceive by many evidenc●s that god own● them . what fruit of them in england and ireland they have had , i do not very well know ; if they that are termed anabaptists do hold unjustifiable positions or practises , they are not the fruit of my ways , any more then the nicola●●ans , gnosticks , and others ways , were the fruits of the apostles preaching . my conscience beareth me witness , and so will the people where i have taught , the brethren with whom i have walked yea , i think some of my antagonists , with whom i have acted in the publick imployment of approving preachers , and perhaps the most eminent persons in england , that i have opposed the errours risen , and have sought reformation without separation , have joyned upon all occasions in the common cause with dissenters ; insomuch that i had hoped impudence it self would never have dared so to belie me , as to make schism , quakerism , and such like evils the fruit of my ways . if many rents and errours have sprung up by accident after my writings , they are no more to be charged on me , then antinomianism , swenekfieldianism , &c. were to be charged on luther ; or brownism , familism , &c. on the antiprelatists . what i wrote to mr. b. i think still , yea , mr. bs. own relations confirm me , they are not anabaptists , though they be against infant baptism . those very persons , or some of that society which sent to mr. b. ( if my intelligence do not deceive ) though they they were against infant baptism , yet neglected baptism when convinced of it as their duty , and they might have been baptized ; and as it was foretold them they were likely to be without the opportunity , so it came to pass , for they were after carried away with the delusion of the quakers . it is not my observation alone , but it is the authors conceit who wrote the book against them termed the quakers blazing star , who was carried away once by them , that the living above ordinances and as seekers hath been one of the chief ways which hath brought it in , god justly leaving them to be deluded by satan who would not submit to the way of gods ordinances ; and he adviseth persons , as to labour to be well grounded in faith and repentance , so to joyn in church communion ( of which he takes the churches of the baptized to be most right , and accordingly hath himself been joyned by baptism to them ) as the best preservative against it . for my part , i think mr. bs. and other ministers maintaining infant baptism do give most advantage and encouragement to them , both to inveigh against them as men that will not yeeld to truth , but teach a manifest errour , and therefore not to be heard ; and then mr. saltmarsh and others delusions about water baptism as now ceased , living in the spirit , expectation of it , no true ministry now without the spirit as the apostles had , and such like conceits driving them off from the churches of the baptized , they are caught by those emissaries from rome , and other agents of satan , with that divelish delusion , god justly suffering satan to delude them with lies , because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved , thes. . . so that i have as much cause to think quakerism the fruit of mr. bs. ways as of mine own . nor will it be any wonder if posterity be left in controversie about the history of former times , when such a one as mr. b. shall continue to load me with false accusations , with which i have many wayes shewed my self not chargeable ; and not onely he , but also mr. robert baillee in his dissuasives , mr. edwards in his gangrena's , and others shall in english and latine heap so many untruths on godly persons because dissenters , while they lived to shew the falsity of them . qu . have you felt the guilt which we too strongly fear you have incurred of the perverting of so many souls , opening them such a gap to schism , contempt of the ministry and apostacy , destroying a hopefull reformation that cost so dear : or weakening our hands in the work , and filling the adversaries mouths with scorn , enticing the jesuites and friars to seem your proselytes , and list themselves among you , as the hopefull party to befriend their cause , hardning thousands both of the papists and profane , and setling them again on their dr●gs , when many once began to shake ! o what a church might we have had , and were likely to have had ? had it not been for the separatists and you ? and what a lamentable confusion are we now brought into by these ? have these things toucht your heart . answ. how far these things have toucht my heart , i must give an account to god my judge , and not to mr. b. who with his fraternity i perceive would pass a heavy doom on mee , and scarce award me a place in earth or heaven : and no marvel , if i were so pernicious an instrument as he describes me . but may i not require mr. b. to shew me by what actions i have done any of these things ? is mr. b. allowed to accuse in generals , and not to instance in particulars ? may he without control accuse and not prove ? may he have liberty , as in a chancery bill hath been wont , to put in all he can imagine , whether true or false ? is not this the manner of quakers and scolds ? are my answers often made of no avail to clear my self , but that mr , b. will still be imputing that to me , which my writings and courses do absolve me from ? no marvel dr. owen said of him , appendix to his vindic evang. pag. . a man that doth not know him as i do , would by his writings take him to be immitis & immisericors , a very achilles , that will not pardon a man in his grave , but will take him up and cut him in a thousand pieces . i tell mr. b. plainly , it is not my doctrine but mr. bs. which perverts souls , i mean his doctrine of baptism and churchmembership , besides his other errours ; that neither my doctrine nor practise open a gap to schism , but tend to the contrary , unity of baptism being one of the bonds of christians , ephes. . . the restoring of which is the regular way to union ▪ mr. b. by his violent opposing it and the assertors of it , doth really open a gap to schism , i open no gap to contempt of the ministry , but they themselves do it by opposing truth , and other wayes , apostacy from christ or godliness is no fruit of my doing , but is rather caused by those that urge persons to renounce the right baptism and communion of the baptised , of which i fear mr. b. is guilty . a right reformation according to gods word , cannot be while infant baptism continues , in seeking to destroy it i promote reformation , mr. b. by maintaining it destroyes reformation , and by proposals shews his inclination to persecution , which if i hinder i rejoyce . i weaken not mr. bs. hands in preaching the gospel , but strengthen them , if i enervate his errour i am glad ; he hath most unbrotherlike endeavoured to weaken my hands , and to stop my mouth . i fill not adversaries mouths with scorn ▪ of him , but he hath thrown as much dirt as hee could on me , in his writings ▪ i entice not jesuites and friers , and if they creep in among those of our judgement , is it any more then jude v. . speaks of in his time ? can mr. b. say they are not among his party ? i harden no papists , but shew their bottome errour , nor prophane persons , but take the right way to undeceive them ; they that maintain their infant baptism , settle them on their dregs , i mean their carnal presumption ; by which they take themselves to bee christians without knowledge of christ. the church that was likely to have been mr. bs. way , may be discerned by the elders , by the scottish church , mr. bs. church at kederminster , the associated ministers in wocestershire and their churches . confusion is too great , for want of restoring christs order , more would be if mr. bs. way were imposed , and no small oppression on tender consciences and dissenting brethren . i may say , oh what a church might wee have had , if it had not been for mr. b. and other such violent paedobaptists as he is , opposing christs way . qu. . is [ a transeunt fact , making infants churchmembers without law , promise , or covenant ] a sufficient medium to encourage you to venture on all these horrid things , and run such hazards as you have done ? or is it possible that an humble sober man , and a tender conscience , durst make all this havock , and stand out in it , so many years considerately as you have done , and this upon such a palpably unreasonable pretence : when you should prove to us the revocation of infants churchmembership , to tell us that they ●ad it onely by a transeunt fact ? is this a safe ground to build so great a weight on ? sir , my conscience witnesseth , that it is not your reproach that is the end of speaking these unpleasing words to you , but some compassion on you ( do not scorn it ) and more on your poor followers ; and most on the church of god which you have so much injured and troubled . answ. i venture on no such horrid things , nor run such hazards as mr. b. imagines , nor is the transeunt fact that i build on , but christs institution matth. . . though that transeunt fact i assigne is sufficient for the purpose i alledge it , and i cross interrogate mr. b. is it possible that an humble sober man , and a tender conscience , should make such foul work as he hath done by his writings , upon such a p●lpably unreasonable pretence , as a law of infants visible churchmembership , by promise and precept unrepealed , no where extant , and a mediate discipleship hatch't in his brain ? my reproach is a small matter , did it not tend to darken the truth i should neglect it , nor should i have answered these questions so fully , had not these things been impar●ed to the preacher and others at bewdley , ere they came to my hands . though my reproach were not finis operantis , yet must it needs be finis operis . i thank mr. b. for his compassion on me and my followers , i have the like on him and his followers . i do not scorn his compassion , but pitty his prejudice and pertinacy . if i have injured and troubled the church my antagonists have compelled me , the lord knowes i had not a resolution to print , till the assembly neglected the matter , and determined against me and the truth unheard . that i have injured the church by printing i believe not , it is certain mr. b. hath extreamly injured me and the truth , and troubled the church of god , by printing his book of baptism . i should not have peace in my conscience did i not endeavour to detect his a●d other paedobaptists fallacies , which i crave liberty to do , and shall easily pass by personal reproaches . qu. . can you prove that ever there was one age , or church ( particular ) on earth since adam till about . years ago , that the anabaptists rose , wherein infants were not de facto taken for members of the church ? if you can do it : let 's hear your proof answ. i can , and for proof look back to sect. , , , . besides constantin , augustin , mentioned by mr. b. p . nazianzen , hierom , &c. unbaptized though of christian parents till adult . qu. . can you bring us proof of any one infant of true church-members , that was not rightfully a churchmember himself from the creation till christs dayes ? or from the creation till this day ? except the anabaptists , who reject the benefit ; whose case ( as i said before ) i will not presume to determine ? answ. i can , for proof look back to sect. , , , . qu. . seing that infants have been de facto churchmembers from the creation to this day ( as far as any records can lead us ) is it likely that the lord , and head and all-sufficient governour of his church , would have permitted his church till now to be actually made up of such subjects , as in regard of age he disallowed ? and suffer his church to be wrong framed till now ? or is it a reasonable , modest and lawful undertaking , to go about now in the end of the world to make god a new framed church , as to the age of the subjects ? and is it not more modest and safe , to live quietly in a church of that frame as all the saints in heaven lived in , till the other day , as a few anabaptists with vile and sinful means , and miserable success , did attempt an alteration ? answ. this question ariseth from these suppositions , . that infants have been de facto churchmembers from the creation to this day . . that all the saints in heaven lived in a church that had infants visible churchmembers till less then . years ago . . that the anabaptists in germany in less then . years attempted the alteration first of of leaving infants out of the visible church . . that they did it with vile and sinful meanes and miserable success . the first of these is not true , as is shewed in the fore-going sections , chiefly those in which the th . question of this letter of mr. b. is answered , the second is shewed to be false sect. . wherein it is proved the apostles lived in a church that had not infants . the third is false , for both christ altered it , and when the corruption of infant baptism had overspread the western churches , many besides the late anabaptists , as petrus de bruis and many other saints in heaven did alter it . the fourth is in part false , for i think the anabaptists so called , did not alter infant visible churchmembership with vile and sinful means , but some of them ( not all ) did by vile and sinful means seek to set up a temporal dominion of the saints ( as i fear some now called quinto-monarchians do ) which is not to be imputed to all that are of the same way in point of discipline and ordinances , and that though this thing of erecting a temporal dominion had miserable success , yet the restoring of baptism hath had success as other reformations , as of the waldenses , hussites , non-conformists and others , who though by clamours of preachers , and violence of princes , they have been for a time suppressed , yet a remnant have been preserved , who have in time revived , and we hope notwithstanding all the clamours , accusations , and practises , used to corrupt & suppress them , will spread & grow up through the blesing of god. and to mr. bs. questions i answer ▪ my aim is not to erect a new framed church to god , but to reduce it to the frame christ and his apostles left it in , though it were after some ages altered by the corruption of infant baptism , which had its original from the gross errour that by it gods grace was given , and otherwise the infants should perish . and though in that church , who were for infant baptism many were saints now in heaven , yet it is not safe to continue that errour , any more then to continue the errour of infant communion now by papists and protestants rejected , though it were many hundreds of yeares practised in the same churches . and sure i wonder if he condemn mee for seeking reformation of infant baptism , how mr. b. could justifie himself for not living quietly in the church of england , as it was under the prelates , though there were among them in that church saints now living in heaven , but seeking the reformation of discipline and ceremonies of humane invention , though greater troubles followed thereon , then i think hath followed this reformation i endeavour , and then i hope ever will. surely if the way i take , and propound , and prosecute were followed , the reformation would be easie and safe , and that it is not followed , will be laid to the charge of mr. b. and other paedobaptists as their sin , nor can all his or their wit bee able to cleer them from it , nor from the guilt of breaking their solemn covenant to endeavour the reformation of these churches according to gods word . hee concludes , sir pardon the weakness , and bear with the plainness and freeness of your faithful brother ( though not as is meet ) rich. baxter . may . . answ. i pray the lord to pardon mr. bs. violent and clamourou● , though i hope not wilful opposing of the truth , and i love him not the worse for his plain dealing , yet cannot patiently bear his falshoods , wherein he accuseth the truth and servants of the living god , and by shewing him his errours , and evil dealing , have endeavoured to acquit my self as his faithful brother , as was meet , however he hath been , or shall be towards me affected . he adds after , sir , if you have any thing of moment to say , in reply to these , which you have not yet in your writings brought forth , i shall bee willing to consider of it : but if you have not , i pray you tell me so in two words , and spare the rest of your pains ( as for me ) and trouble mee no more with matters of this nature . for truly i have no sufficient vacancy from greater works . yea , i am constrained to forbear much greater then these . r. b. after this , he tels me , that whereas i preached a sermon at bewdley , in which i refuted by many arguments infants visible churchmembership , i must be either mutable or hypocritical , if i deny such a law and ordinance which i took on me then to refute , and desires a copy of that sermon , that hee may shew the sad mistakes and vanity of those my arguments . to which i answer , . i refuted mr. bs. law of infants visible church-membership , as a thing pretended , not as a thing real , and so am neither mutable nor hypocritical , in denying such a law . . i have no delight in mr. bs. writings of this subject , unless there were more ingenuity and solidity in them , then i yet finde , and therefore am willing to gratifie him with no more of my manuscripts in this kinde . . as for the copy of my sermon he hath the matter of it with enlargement in the , , and . section of this book , which when he answers , fragili querens illidere dentem offendet solido . . what i had more to say then i have printed , he may perceive by my books , and however mr. b. conceives , yet i conceive that the reformation or confirmation of infant baptism , is a matter of as great moment as the things mr. b. is intentive on . however , hee might have answered my letter without any of this trouble hee hath put himself to : but sith hee chose this way , i have thought it necessary to make this reply , and so to go on to the examining the rest of his book , not yet examined by me at large , though there be little which is not answered in this and other parts before . sect . lxiiii. my answer in the dispute and sermon to the argument of mr. b. of baptism , part . ch . . about the non-repeal of infants churchmembership , because neither in justice nor mercy , is vindicated . plain scripture proof , &c. part . ch . . mr b. speaks thus . my first argument is this . if god have repealed this ordinance , and revoked this mercifull gift of infants churchmembership , then it is either in mercy , or in justice ; either for their good , or for their hurt . but he hath neither repealed it in mercy for their good , nor in justice for their hurt : therefore he hath not at all repealed it . i will hide nothing from you that mr. t. hath said against this argument , either in our publick dispute , or in his sermon . the sufficiency of the enumeration in the major proposition , he never offered to deny : nor indeed is there any ground to deny it . it must needs be for the good or hurt of infants that they are put out ; and so must needs be in mercy or justice , for god maketh not such great alterations in his church and laws , to no end , and of no moment , but in meer indifferency . answ. in the dispute at bewdley , jan. . . and the sermon shortly after , i did not understand mr. bs. opinion as i do now ; nor did afore the writing of his last letter , conceive of his law and ordinance of visible churchmembership what it was , and where it was to be found ; nor do i yet conceive clearly what the benefit and priviledge is to infants by their visible churchmembership which he asserts . and therefore if i gave not so clear an answer to this argument as were requisite , it is to be imputed partly to the unacquaintedness with it at that time , partly to mr. bs. artifice , who carried himself close in the dispute for indirect advantage , and still is unwilling to shew his mind fully , though desired by me in the letter before set down . what is his opinion about the law unrepealed , is considered before ; what he imagines are the priviledges and benefit of his infants visible churchmembers , seems to be intimated in these passages of his letter in the th . qu. set down here , sect . . when he saith , i suppose you will not deny that it was a benefit to be the covenanted people of god , to have the lord engaged to be their god , and to take them for his people , to be brought so near him , and to be separated from the common and unclean , from the world , and from the strangers to the covenant of promises , that live as without god in the world , and without hope . in another passage , set down sect. . to be a member of the church , is to be a member of a society taking god in christ to be their god , and taken by him for his special people . the act which makes each member is of the same nature with that which makes the society . the relation then essentially containeth . a right to the great benefits of gods soveraignty over men , christs headship , and that favour , protection , provision , and other blessings which are due from such a powerfull and gracious a soveraign to such subjects , and from such a head to his members : as also a right to my station in the body , and to the inseparable benefits thereof . which how false they are , is in part shewed above . he likewise expresseth the leaving infants out of the visible church christian , as if it were a casting out , excommunicating , by a punitive execution of a curse or law on them , ch . . part . of plain scripture proof , &c. wherein how he is mistaken is shewed above . these things being premised , i say , that if mr. b. understand by [ mercy ] remunerative mercy , and by [ justice ] punitive justice ( as he seems to do , ) i deny the major . and to his reasons i answer , . simply , and of it self , the non●visible churchmembership of infants imports neither hurt nor good to them : but by accident , in that their visible church-membership in the church of the hebrews obliged them to circumcision and the yoke of the law , so it imports hurt to them . . if it did import hurt or good to them , yet it might be neither by an act of remunerative mercy , nor punitive justice , that they are left out o● the church ; but by an act of meer soveraignty , as it is in election and reprobation , and in the disposing of the gospel where god pl●aseth . . god hath his ends in this alteration , as to shew his freeness , his intent to have his visible church more spiritual then the jewish , &c. though not to shew his remunerative mercy or avenging justice . . it is not in meer indifferency , but of moment to these ends that hee doth so . mr. b. proceeds thus . the minor i prove in both parts . that god hath not repealed this to their hurt in justice ▪ i prove thus : if god never revoke his mercies , nor repeal his ordinances in justice to the parties hurt , till they first break covenant with him , and so procure it by their own desert ▪ then he hath not in justice revoked this mercy to the hurt of those that never broke covenant with him : but it is certain that god never revoketh a mercy in justice to the hurt of any that never broke covenant with him ▪ therefore to such he hath not so revoked it . answ. gods revoking mercies in justice to the parties hurt , is sometimes without the particular persons breaking covenant with him , or his desert . are not the infants of adam deprived of life in justice to their hurt , without their breaking covenant with god , or their personal desert ? are not many infants and others deprived of the preaching of the gospel , who yet are descended from faithfull ancestors who never brake covenant with god , onely for that the nation of which they are a part , are over-run by barbarous people , they carried away captive , they and their children made slaves ? do not these things happen to the most godly saints ? doth not solomon tell us , eccles. . . that all things come alike to all ? doth not the apostle tell us , rom. . , . for the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil , that the purpose of god according to the cle●ion might stand , not of works , but of him that calleth , it was said to rebecca , the elder shall serve the younger ; as it 〈◊〉 written , jacob have i loved , but esau have i hated : whence v. . he infers , therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardeneth ? and again , rom. . . after he had considered the various ways of gods dealing with jews and gentiles , he thus concludes , o the depth of the riches both of the wisdome and knowledge of god! how unsearchable are his judgements , and his paths past finding out ! from whence , and from innumerable experiments of thousands of godly greeks whose children are taken from them and made turks , and others , i may safely deny the minor of mr. bs. argument , which he saith is certain , as being most certainly false , and like the arguing of the disciples , john . which christ refuted v. . concerning the man who was born blind . but mr. b. goes on to prove it thus . that this is a mercy , and of the covenant , is plain , deut. . , , . and frequently past denial . answ. that the visible churchmembership of infants in the jewish national church was a mercy , it s not denied ; but that it was such a mercy as mr. b. makes it above , to contain essentially a right to the great benefits of gods soveraignty over men , christs headship , and that favour , prote●tion , provision , and other blessings , which are due from so powerfull and gracious a soveraign to such subjects , and from such a head to his members , is neither true , nor proved from deut. . , , , . where the being a god to them doth not necessarily include all these benefits ; nor if it did , doth it ascribe them to their visible church-membership , but to their obedience to his laws , implied in the phrase that he may establish thee for a people to himself ; that is , saith piscator in his scholie on the place , that he may require worship from thee by obedience towards his precepts , and so may bind thee to himself : which sense the rest of moses his speech in that and the following chapter shew , and consequently they presuppose not onely their covenant with god , and their visible churchmembership but also their keeping the law so far as the blessings were legal , and their belief and obedience to the gospel so far as they are evangelical . . saith mr. b. that god doth not in justice revoke such to any but covenant breakers , i prove briefly thus . . from the mercifull nature and constant dealings of god , who never casteth off those that cast not off him . answ. . mr. b. doth most vainly intimate them to be cast off by god who are not visible churchmembers , which if true , it would prove that all infants dying in the womb are cast off by god , with many more , who are not visible churchmembers , and yet are blessed persons . . for gods mercifull nature , it doth not hinder but that god may cast off them who cast not off him , sith his mercifull nature doth not act as a natural agent , but as a free agent ; and he hath resolved us , exod. . . rom. . . i will have mercy on whom i will have mercy , i will have compassion on whom i will have compassion , even then when he proclaimed his name to be gracious and mercifull . . ●t is false , as hath been before proved , that the constant dealing● of god are such , as that he never casteth off those that cast not him off . . saith mr. b. from his truth and faithfulne●● ▪ for else we should make god the covenant breaker , and not man ; which is horrid blasphemy . answ. this argument indeed were good if god had made this covenant with men , that whoever of them believe in christ , their infant children should be churchmembers visible in his church jewish or catholick . but there was never such a covenant made by god , and therefore though he alters the frame of the church , so as to leave out infants of beleivers from being visible members , he breaks no covenant . . saith he , from the immutability and constancy of god : his gifts and calling are without repentance . answ. god is indeed immutable and constant in his being and promises , and his gifts of election , foreknowledge , effectual calling , meant rom. . . as v. , , , , , , shew , are without repentance , rom. . . rom. . . but the gift of visible churchmembership is not such , even according to mr. b. cain was a visible churchmember , yet cast off , with many more . many a believers child is in infancy taken from him and made a mahometan , so as that he never is a visible christian , and yet god is unchangeable , and his gifts meant rom. . . without repentance . . saith he , scripture frequently layeth all the cause of all evil of suffering upon mans sinning , mic. . . hos. . . answ. . he supposeth , but proveth not , that the non-visible churchmembership christian of infants is an evil of suffering , which i deny . . it is false that the scripture ever layeth all the cause of all the evil of suffering upon the mans sinning , who suffereth ; the contrary is manifest in the death of infants by adams sin , rom. . . . some sufferings our lord christ denies to be from the special sin of children or parents , john . , . the texts alledged prove not mr. bs. proposition ; the former proves onely the destruction of samaria and jerusalem to be for their idolatry , the other proves the same to have been the fate of israel for the same sin , but neither mr. bs. universal proposition . so that hitherto mr. b. hath proved nothing . he applies his unproved dictates thus . now you know there were many jews that did believe ▪ and did not forsake the covenant of god , even most of the apostles themselves , and many thousands more : now how then can th●se or their infants be put out of the church in justice to their hurt , who did not first break covenant with god ? answ. . god may in justice do it , because he is a soveraign lord who is no debtor to any , rom. . , , . . god may in justice do it for the parents sins some ages before , or the national sin of the jews in rejecting christ might be a just cause for god to break off all infants churchmembership , being onely a consequent of the taking the hebrew nation for his people , though some parents believed , in common punishments and changes the obedience of some few not exempting them and theirs from them ; as in the babylonish captivity , it happened for manasseh his sin , notwithstanding josiahs reformation , kings . . mr. b. goes ●n . i am brief in this , because mr. t. doth not deny it . but that which he answereth is , that [ it is in mercy for their good . ] i prove the contrary plainly thus . it can be no mercy to take away a mercy , except it be to give a greater in the stead of it : but here is no greater mercy given to infants in the stead of churchmembership ; therefore it can be no mercy to them that it be revoked . the major mr. t. doth not deny , and i will fully tell you all that he saith to the minor . . in his dispute he answered , that churchmembership of infants was revoked in mercy for their good ; and that they had a greater mercy in stead of it : and what do you think is that greater mercy ? why , it is christ come in the flesh . i confess it amazeth me to see the power of errour , how it can both at once bereave the understanding of ordinary light , and the conscience of tenderness ; or one of these at least . is it possible that the judgement of such a man as mr. t. can take this for a satisfactory answer , or his conscience give him leave to deny churchmembership to all infants in the world , and to raise a schisme in a poor distressed church ; and to charge their own bloud on the heads of his people that yeeld not to him , and all upon such lamentable grounds as these ? answ. . i deny that now which i did not deny in the dispute , neither understanding whereto mr. bs. argument tended , nor what his opinion was in the matter of his argument , nor having competent time to consider his words . . i was somewhat amazed at first reading at mr. bs. dealing with me who had so good an opinion of his godliness and tenderness of consciences , and his pretences of friendliness , that if a man had sworn to me , before he printed , that he would have thus abused and accused me so falsly , i should not have believed it . but i see no hopes of any justice from such an intemperate zelot for his opinion , nor any right understanding of me , or any thing i say or do , from one so prejudiced , superficial , in his consideration of things , yet peremptory , and rash in his determinations , as mr. b. is . suppose i had answered them as weakly as mr. b. imagines i did , yet a litt●e experience might have told him , that it might have commen from other causes then the power of errour , bereaving at once my understanding of ordinary light , and my conscience of tenderness . such censures , if there were no more , shew mr. b. was carried with intemperate heat in his writing , a thing which certainly corrupts a mans judgement , and ma●è verum examinat omnis corruptus judex . to his accusations i answer , it is false that i deny churchmembership to all the infants in the world , that i raise a schism in a poor distressed church , that i thretaen those that yeeld not to me and all upon the grounds he mentions , which yet are not lamentable any otherwise then because they are no better heeded . but to the argument . the major i shall consider anon ; the minor is that which is under present consideration , which i deny , and avow what i then answered , with this explication and amplification . infants visible churchmembership was onely in the hebrew nation . the end of god was in taking that nation to be his visible people , that there might be a fixed nation among whom and from whom christ should be born . to that end he would have them distinguished from other people by circumcision , by laws ▪ &c. he would have their tribes distinguished , their inheritances fixed , their genealogie certain ; this was the benefit of that nation , the honour and mercy to the infants and others , and god took it away after christs comming as being useless , it being to usher it in , i mean the whole ordering of the hebrew church-membership ; and it was a greater mercy to the church of god , and thereby to the infants , who had their churchmembership onely a mercy before by consequence as a part of that people , without any feeling or enjoyment of it till they came to riper age : and this was a greater mercy then their former membership , . in that they were freed from the yoke of the law ; . christ who was promised was a known person , and revealed and accomplished the will of god concerning the salvation of h●s people . let 's view mr. bs. refutation . . saith he . was it ever heard before from the mouth of man , that christ succeeded churchmembership , as a thing that was to give place for him ? doth christ cast any out of the church , onely that he may succeed them ? can he prove that their churchmembership was a type of christ , that must cease when he was come ? why doth he not prove it then from some scripture or reason ? cannot we have a room in the body without being cast out at the comming of the head ? are the head and members at such odds , that one must give place , and be gone when the other comes ? why then is not the churchmembership of men and women to give place to christs comming in the flesh ? sure the nature of churchmembership is the same in both . why did the apostles never speak of this among the types of christ that did cease , that all infants are put out of the church or family of god , that christ may succeed as a greater mercy to them then their room in his church and family ? is not here comfort ( but by a silly comforter ) to all the jewes themselves ? though they are broken off from the church , yet christ is a greater mercy to them in stead of it . answ. mr. b. keeps his wont of refuting me by frivolous questions and foolish scoffs , in stead of solid arguments . to them as they are , i return these answers . he himself ch . . saith , the dedication of the first●born was evidently a type of christ and the church under him , and yet he can give no more scripture or reason for it , then i can for this , that the churchmembership of infants was but to endure till christs comming in the flesh . to omit what i have already argued in the , , . sections before , in my apprehension the apostle doth plainly teach , gal. . . to the end , that the churchmembership that was by the descent by natural birth from abraham , continued onely till faith came , that is , till christ was exhibited , and believed on as already come in the flesh , that now all are children of god , abrahams seed by faith , that there is now no difference between jew and gentile , the jews natural birth brings not him in the church , nor the gentiles uncircumcision excludes him ; that so many as are admitted into the church by baptism do put on christ , and consequently the churchmembership by birth into the jewish church national now ceaseth , and there is no churchmembership , but by faith in christ. and this i might further confirm from gal. . . col. . , . & . . and to these scriptures i add this reason , the course that god took in severing the jewish nation from other people , circumcising the males , keeping the distinction of tribes , and the inheritances in the families , and the genealogies so exactly till christ came , ordering the tax of augustus at the time of christs birth , and after his ascension scattering the jews out of their land , overturning their commonwealth , confounding their pedigrees , taking to himself another church in another way , by preaching the gospel , and baptizing believers , and none else ; doth plainly evidence to me , that infants churchmembership was but an introduction , type , shadow , fore-runner to christs manifestation in the flesh , and to cease as john baptists office did when christ was exhibited and fully manifested to the world . and accordingly mr. bs. questions are answered ; the first , that it was heard of before , that upon the comming of christ believers church-membership was to succeed to birth-churchmembership : to the second , that though christ cast not any out of the church that he may succeed them , yet by his comming he alters churchmembership by birth into churchmembership by faith : the third and fourth are answered by setting down my apprehension , and the scriptures and reason of it . the fifth i answer affirmatively , the sixth negatively : the seventh , that men and women are not churchmembers now by birth any more then infants , and in that respect the nature of churchmembership is the same in both : to the eighth , the apostle did speak of it , in the places before cited : to the ninth , the silly comforter knows no reason why the jews broken off should be comforted ; but thinks it was matter of comfort to the believing jews , that in stead of infants visible churchmembership and their own standing in the national church jewish , they had christ manifested in the flesh as a greater mercy , the body in stead of the shadow , the sun risen in stead of the day-star . mr. b. goes on thus . but let us consider a little what is the church ? is it not the body of christ ? even all the church since adams fall , and the making of a new covenant is one body of christ : even the visible church is his visible body , as cor. . and many scriptures fully shew ; therefore even the branches not bearing fruit are said to be in him , that is , in his visible body , joh. . , , . now doth christ break off all infants from his body , that he may come in the flesh to be a greater mercy to them ? what 's that , but to be a greater mercy then himself , who is the life , and welfare of the body ? answ. the invisible church is all one body of christ ; the visible hath had such differences , that one part , to wit , those who feared god , and prayed continually , acts . yet had no communion with the other , but were counted unclean , and shunned because uncircumcised , acts ▪ , . the church of the circumcised , which was by natural birth , is now broken off upon christs comming ; and another church by faith of all nations is raised ; acts . , . in which infants are not till they believe ; who though they are of the invisible church or body of christ by election , and invisible operation of the spirit , yet are not of the visible till they profess faith in christ as already come in the flesh , who was the great mercy promised to abraham , joh. . . in which he rejoyced although a great part of his natural seed were broken off ▪ and this was a greater mercy then was before exhibited , although then christ was the life and welfare of the body . again , saith mr. b ▪ it seems by this , mr. t. thinks that excommunication is a great mercy : if all the jews infants had been excommunicate or cast out of the church by god himself , it were no more then christ did in mercy , never bringing them into any other church in stead . answ. nothing said by me gives any occasion to this imputation : excommunication , if just , i count a curse ; but the non taking of infants into the visible church christian hath nothing of a curse in it , it being onely an act of god according to his soveraignty , who had liberty to appoint who should be of his church , who not . against this strange fiction , saith mr. b. i argued thus : if ordinarily god shew not so great mercy to those out of the church as to those in it , then it is not a greater mercy , or for the parties greater good to be put out , then to be in : but ordinarily god sheweth not so great mercy to those out of the church as to those in it : therefore it is not for their greater good , nor in greater mercy ▪ to be put out . to this mr. t. answered nothing . answ. what need i , when i grant the conclusion ? mr. b. makes a strange fiction of his own , as if i thought excommunication , to be cast out or put out of the church , a great mercy ; and held infants were excommunicated , cast or put out of the church : which is far from me , or any thing i say , who do not ▪ assert them put out by any judicial sentence , but by a free act of gods soveraignty left out , for reasons best known to himself , but in part revealed to us . mr. b. adds . i argued also thus : ●f those that are out of the church since christ , have no such promise or assurance of mercy from him , as those in the church had before christ , then it is not to them a great mercy to be out of the church : but those out of the church since christ , have no such promise or assurance of mercy from him , as those in the church had before christ : therefore it cannot be to them a greater mercy . to this mr. t. answered , that it is a greater mercy to infants since christ to be out of the church , then before to be in it ; and that they have as much assurance of mercy from christ now , as then , ( he should say more . ) answ. this answer was right ; infants now are in a better case , though not visible christian churchmembers , then they were when in the jewish church , in which they were circumcised and obliged to moses law ; and they have as much assurance of mercy from christ , to wit , righteousness and life as then ; yea , more ( though i need not say so in contradiction to mr. bs. minor ) then before , sith christs exhibition in the flesh is a greater assurance of saving mercy then was before . to which , saith mr. b. i replied thus , if those infants which were in the church before christ , had god engaged in an oath and covenant to be their god , and to take them for his peculiar people , and those infants out of the church since christ have no such thing ; then they before christ in the church had more assurance of mercy then those out of the church since christ : but the former is true , as i proved out of deut. . , , . upon which text , what vain altercations there were , and what words were used against the express letter of the text , you shall see in the relation of the dispute , if ● be called to publish it . answ. for my part i shall not consent that mr. b. publish the relation of the dispute ▪ having found his dealing so injurious to me in that which he hath already done , and his partiality towards his opinion and party . i have looked over two such relations of the dispute as i could get , and i finde in them that i did deny the minor , and when mr. b. alledged deut. . , , . to prove it , i did distinguish of being god in respect of saving benefits , and thus god is engaged in covenant to be god to infants now no visible churchmembers as he was then , to wit to the elect onely , or in respect of outward advantages , such as were peculiar to the nation of the jews , as that they should possess canaan , have gods worship and presence with them in a more special manner then other people , christ to come out of that people , &c. as rom. . , . the apostle reckons them , and in this respect it was granted that infants in the church before christ had god so engaged , and that neither infants out of the church christian , no nor believers in it , no nor all believers afore christ , such as cornelius had god so engaged , and that in this respect the oath of god was meant , appeared from v. . which saith thus , that he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself , and that he may be unto thee a god as he hath said unto thee , and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers , to abraham , to isaac , and to jacob , which appears to be meant of their setling in canaan and their prosperous state there , as many places evince , where it is mentioned particularly gen. . . & . . & . . & . . & . . & . . & . , . deut. . , &c. besides many other passages in the same speech of moses , deut. . , , , , . deut. . , . , , , . and most evidently the conclusion of it deut. . . from which passages it is as evident as the light , that the meaning deut. . , , . was this , that god did bring into covenant by moses ( the chief standing for the rest ) the whole nation of israel , that they might for themselves and their posterity unborn binde them to observe the lawes of moses given in horeb , and thereby be established a people to god , and he might be a god to them in setling , keeping and prospering them in canaan , if they did obey . now mr. b. asserted that god did covenant with all the little ones and others there present , to be their god , and that in respect of spiritual benefits , and to that end , urged deut. . . which he made conditional , and to other then the elect . against which i urged , that [ to circumcise the heart ] is the same with writing gods lawes in the heart heb. . . which dr. twiss ▪ rightly concludes to be absolute and to the ●lect onely , and that to assert it to be conditional is pelagianism , and i desired the auditors to take notice of mr. bs. assertion in that thing : i confess i had not time to collect and to produce the texts here mentioned ( which was one reason why i was still averse from extemporary verbal disputes ) but this was the substance of that ●●●rcation which mr. b. cals vain , and saith , words were used against the express letter of the text . concerning which , although i will not undertake to justifie all i then said , yet the answer i then gave i stil avouch as right , and conceive mr. bs. assertion of circumcising the heart , to love the lord , to belong to other then the elect , and to be conditional to be very erroneous , and refer the reader to mr. bs. own words in answer to mr. bedford in the friendly accommodation pag. , . to discern the errour of it . mr. b. saith , i further add out of ephes. . . those that were aliens to the commonwealth of israel , were strangers to the covenant of promises , and without hope , and without god : and there is no scripture speaketh of delivering any from this sad state but churchmembers ; therefore sure it can be no mercy to be put out of the church . answ. though the conclusion were granted it hurts not me , who do not asserr the putting infants out of the church , who were in , but the not taking of them into the visible church christian. however the text speaks of the ephesians who were uncircumcised in the flesh v. . but doth not say that all that were uncircumcised , or aliens from the commonwealth of israel , were without god in the world . for it is certain that cornelius and many other proselytes uncircumcised , were not without god in the world , and therefore persons might then have christ , though not be visible churchmembers ; and if mr. b. say , that none but visible members in the christian church have christ , god , hope , he must damn all abortives and still born children of believers , and all those that are converted , ( and shew it not as dumb persons ) on their death-bed , or any other way , in articulo mortis . again , saith he , god added to the church such as should bee saved : therefore to be cast or put out of the church is no known way of mercy . answ. the conclusion is granted , and yet the text proves not that all who are added to the church shall be saved , or that all that shall be saved , are or shall be added to the church visible . again , saith hee , the church is the family of christ ( even the visible church is called the house of god tim. . . ) but it is no known way of mercy to be out of gods house and family . answ. i grant it , and yet a person may be in christs house , and a temple to him ▪ and not a visible churchmember . again , saith he , the church is the pillar and ground of truth ; therefore no mercy to be taken off it . answ. i grant it , yet doubt whether the church be termed so , tim. . . and not rather either the mystery of godliness v. . as cameron de eccles. c. de eccles. durati , & de eccl. const. or timothy as gataker cinni lib. . c. . again , saith mr. b. the church visible , is the visible body of christ ; but it is no mercy to be separated from christs body . answ. true , yet it may be a mercy in respect of the yoke of the law not to be in the visible church jewish , yea by accident it may be a mercy to be separated from a visible church christian as when the church is tyrannous in its rule , or unsound in the doctrine taught to it . again , saith he , the church visible is christs visible kingdome : but it is no mercy to be out of christs kingdome ; therefore it is no mercy to be out of the church . answ. the same which was made to the former objection is to this . lastly , saith mr. b. do but read all those hundred glorious things that are spoken of the city of god , all those high praises that are given to the jewish church , in deut. and the psalms , and all the scriptures ( who is like unto thee o israel , &c. ) and then read all the far more glorious things , that are spoken of the gospel church since christ : and if after this you can still believe , that god did in mercy cast infants out of one church and never take them into the other , and that christ came in the flesh to put them out of the church in mercy , as if he could fi●lier save them out of his church then in it ; i say , if after reading the foresaid passages ▪ you can believe this , for my part i give you up as forlorn , and look upon your understandings in this as forsaken by god , and not onely void of spiritual illumination , but common reason : and pray the lord to save the understandings of all his people from such a plague , and to rescue yours before you go further . answ. i say not that god did in mercy cast infants out of one church , nor that christ came in the flesh to put them out of the church in mercy , as if he could fitlier save them out of his church then in it ; but that god never took them into his visible church christian , and that christs comming in the flesh is a mercy recompensing the visible churchmembership jewish by birth , when god bra●e off that people from the olive for their unbelief , and that christ can and doth as fitly save infants , though not in the visible church christian , as he did when they were in the visible church jewish , and yet fear not mr. bs. direful omen and sad despair of my understanding , but have as good hopes of mine and my followers understandings in this thing , as of mr. bs. and his followers , and leave it to the intelligent to judge , whether we are void not onely of spiritual illumination , but common reason . i have read what is said of israel , and yet think it a mercy now not to bee a vi●●ble churchmember in it , no not though it were now as it was in the best state under david , solomon , &c. and i conceive mr. b. hath read many hundreds of as glorious things spoken of moses law as of the church , and yet i think mr. b. counts it a mercy now not to be under it . i finde the glorious things spoken of the gospel church since christ , meant all or most of it , as it contains that part which is the invisible church of true believers or elect persons . and i judge god hath dealt mercifully with infants , if he put them into the invisible church , though hee put them not into the visible , if not , either their being in the visible benefits them not or aggravates their condemnation . mr. b. proceeds thus . but let us see what mr. t. answers to this in his sermon , which upon deliberation hee afterward preached to confute my arguments , and therefore ●anno● lay the blame upon his unpreparedness . and truly in my judgement he doth here plainly throw down his weapons , and give up the whole cause ( though not directly confessing his errour : he is not yet so happy : ) i were best give you his own words , lest i be thought to wrong him : they are these ; [ as for those petty reasons , if it be done , it must bee in mercy or judgement , i say in mercy in respect of the whole catholike church now christ being come , and wee ha●ing a more spiritual churchstate then they had ; their churchstate was more carnal and fleshly , and agreeable to their time of minority : it is in mercy that it is taken away . and as for that exception , it cannot be taken away in mercy , unless some priviledge be to them in stead of it ▪ we answer , it is in mercy to the whole church , though no priviledge be to them ] so far mr. ts. words . i confess i never heard a cause more plainly forsaken , except a man should say flatly , i have erred , or i recant ▪ . he much altereth the terms of my argument , as you may see by it before . the argument is thus ; it can be no mercy to any to have a mercy taken away from them , except it be to give a greater in its stead . but here is no greater mercy given to infants in stead of churchmembership ; therefore it can be no mercy to them , that it be revoked , or taken away . to call these [ petty reasons ] is the onely strength of mr. t. his answer . for i pray you mark . . hee never den●ed the major proposition [ that it can be no mercy to any to have a mercy taken from them , except they may have a greater in stead : ] he could not deny this with any shew of reason : for otherwise , if it be a mercy meerly to deprive the creature of mercy , then wee shall turn hell into heaven , and make it the greatest place of mercies , because none are deprived of mercy so much as they , no nor of this particular mercy : for none are further removed from being members of the church then the damned . answ. it is true finding the boastings concerning mr. bs. dispute janu. . . to be many , after my return from leimster ( to which place i was then designed and where i was janu. . ) i did though without any copy of the disputation or arguments in writing ( which i could not obtain from mr. b. ) as well as my memory could bear them away , in the close of my afternoons sermon , jan. . at bewdley , recite and refute his arguments in the disputation . wherein it is true i was somewhat more deliberate then in the dispute , yet for want of the arguments in writing , i could not then give so full and exact an answer to his arguments as had been requisite , nor perhaps shall now to this , because mr. b. doth not plainly set down though requested by me , what that benefit , priviledge , or mercy is , which he conceives annexed to infants visible churchmembership unrepealed . but that either i throw down my weapons or forsake my cause by my answer then to this argument , is but mr. bs. dream . of what alteration there was of the terms of his argument he must bear the blame , who would not give me his arguments in writing under his own hand ; nor am i to be blamed for drawing it so short , being fearful to wrong him by a fuller reciting , and i perceive i had great cause so to do , when i finde mr. b. himself altering the terms of his own major in a few lines , in the former it is [ except it be to give a greater in its stead ] in the later [ except that they may have a greater in stead ] which are not the same . and for my answer ▪ if my terming his arguments [ petty reasonings ] had been mine onely answer , yet it had been a good and sufficient answer , if this be granted ( which i conceive an evident truth ) that of divine institution , ( and such is this of visible churchmembership ) there is no reason can be right but what is from gods own appointment , though it may seem right to us it should be so . papists argue that if god did not make one oecumenical bishop ( as there was one high priest among the jews ) to preserve unity , non satis discretu● esset , he should not be discreet enough . now this seems to our reason plausible , and yet we justly say , that in things positive our reason is deceivable , and gods appointment onely is to be attended . and so it is in this ; though this reason of mr. b. seem plausible , yet it were no forsaking the cause though i could not answer it any otherwise then thus , it is mr. bs. petty reasoning from his own conceits of what he imagines fi● in a matter of meer institution , concerning which it is nevertheless manifest from the history of the new testament , that god hath appointed otherwise then is gods way according to his reason ; which indeed is but arrogant presumption , when it prescribes to god. but i shall answer his argument more amply : and though i did not deny his major i● the dispute or sermon , i say , if it be understood o● a greater mercy in the same kind , and to the same persons , it is not true ; the believing jews were deprived of their possessions in judea in mercy , yet had not a greater me●cy in the same kind but another in the gifts of the spirit ; it was in mercy that the priests converted to the faith were deprived of their office in the temple , and their children of the portion of the offerings there , which were mercies to them , and yet no such office or portion provided for them and their children , but the benefit redound●d to the gentiles converted , whose conversion was prayed for by david , isaiah &c. and was a mercy to them , though their posterity might be broken off , and the national church dissolved . i conceive that gods ways are so free and various in this kind , that mr bs. ma●or cannot be universally true , not is mr. bs. reason cogent . for suppose god annihilate in mercy , there is no greater mercy given , yet hell is not turned into heaven , and made the greatest place of mercies , in this case there is a meer deprivation of mercy in mercy : but the thing is more apparent in deprivations of some temporal benefits . god may deprive in mercy , that is , not in judgement of some temporal benefit meerly because he will , out of his freedome to dispose of his own , yet give no greater mercy in stead of it then he should have had if that had not been taken away ; and that god doth not do so , who can say ? me thinks the apostles determination , rom. . . should satisfie that he doth . and yet hell should not be the greatest place of mercies , for there is not onely a privation of temporal , but also of spiritual and eternal mercies , and that too with accumulation of torments , which is otherwise in the case proposed . and for the particular mercy of church-membership , the infant visible jewish churchmembership was but a temporal mercy , and a comparative mercy in respect of the nations , it neither certainly assured their eternal , nor present welfare ; yea , when christ came , considering how the nation of the jews was against christ , it was then rather their danger then their mercy , and was a recompenced sufficiently in being out of that church , which consisted of a rebellious and gainsaying people ▪ and being , though not visible churchmembers in the christian society , yet in the families where the spirit of god was given , and christ known . mr. b. adds . . and observe next , that as mr t. denieth not the major , so here be plainly grants the minor , and so yeelds the whole cause . for the minor was , [ that here is no greater mercy given to infants in stead of churchmembership : ] doth not mr. t. acknowledge this ? when be saith twice over : . that it is a mercy to the whole catholick church ( to have their infants put out of the church : ) and so if the mercy be onely to the catholick church , that they be none of the church ( visible , ) then it is not to them a mercy : so that he taketh it to be a mercy onely to others , but none to them , according to this answer . . yea , he saith it more plainly the second time , that it is in mercy to the whole church , though no priviledge ( much less a greater mercy ) be to them ( to the infants themselves : ) so that for my part , i think i may well break off here , and take the whole cause as yeelded . for if it be no mercy to any to be deprived of mercy , except that they may have a greater : and if infants have no greater in stead of this , but onely their parents have a greater : and both these be confessed : then it must follow , that it is no mercy to infants to be deprived of this mercy of their churchmembership ; and consequently , god hath not taken it from them in mercy for their good ( which is the thing i am proving : ) and mr. t. yeeldeth that it is not taken from them in justice to their hurt : and therefore it is not taken from them at all . and thus you see what is become of the cause that hath been driven on with such confidence . answ. however i onely denied the minor in the dispute and sermon , yet mr. b. may see by the answer before , that here i deny his major in the first argument in this chapter , yea , and that he can prove that it is not in justice that the churchmembership visible jewish ceased , though i stil adhere to it , that it was in mercy ; and of this argument i have here denied the major , though i did not so before , and am ready to shew that i have not yeelded the minor , nor any whit of the cause , and therefore suppose mr. b. hath need to manage his weapons better ere he gain this cause ; yea ▪ though he should have this argument yeelded , yet the cause is not gained , for the reason before given . but let us view his minor , and my answer . his minor is [ that here is no greater mercy given to infants in stead of churchmembership , ] my answer was , that in mercy to the whole catholick church the jewish infant church-membership ceased , and therefore the infant visible churchmembership jewish in mercy ceased . to understand his minor , it is to be observed that mr. b. asserts . a law or ordinance of infants visible church-membership antecedent to that of circumcision . . that this is by promise and precept . . that this infant visible churchmembership essentially contains a right to gods soveraignty , christs headship , favour , protection , provision , and other blessings due from such a soveraign and head to his members . . that this belonged not onely to the infants of the jewish nation , but also of believers in all ages . . that this mercy belonged to the infants of the believers of the jewish nation when they were made christians , and so could not be in justice taken from them , though the nation of the jews were broken off for unbelief . . that in mercy it cannot be said to be taken away , without a greater mercy to the infants of believrs in stead of it . . that the comming of christ in the flesh , the extent of the church over the world through faith , the changing of churchmembership by birth into that by faith , and so making the church more spiritual , is not a greater mercy to the infants of jew believers in stead of that visible church-membership . . that without visible churchmembership in the christian church catholick , the infants of jew believers are in worse case then they were in the jewish church national . on the contrary , i deny . such a law or ordinance . . that the hebrew infant visible churchmembership was by promise and precept . . that this visible churchmembership contained essentially such a right as mr. b. asserts ; though it was a mercy in comparison of the state of other nations , yet thereto was annexed a heavy yoke of legal impositions , the deliverance from which was a mercy , and in this respect it was in mercy not continued to believers infants of the jewish nation . . that it belonged to any other infants then of the hebrew people . . i assert that when the jewish nation or hebrew people were broken off for unbelief in christ ; visible churchmembership of infants was in justice taken away from the whole people , and consequently from the infants of jew believers , who were onely visible churchmembers as a part of that nation , yet in mercy to them sith their visible churchmembership in that nation was dangerous to them , yea inconsistent with christianity , the jewish nation being a rebellious and gainsaying people : as it was a mercy for lot to be in sodom , and he was in justice to the place outed ; and yet in mercy to himself , when it was to be destroyed . . i assert , that it might be truly said that the infant jewish visible churchmembership may be said to be taken away in mercy ●rom the infants of believers of that nation , though no greater mercy were given to those particular infants of the same kind barely in stead of it . . i assert , that it cannot be said to be taken away in justice from infants of believing gentiles , sith it was never granted to any gentile nation to be gods visible church , nor were their infants visible churchmembers , except by proselytism they were incorporated into the jewish people . . i assert , that the not taking in of believing gentiles infants into the visible church christian was not an act judiciary of god as a judge , but gods free act of soveraignty changing churchmembership by birth into churchmembership by faith . . i assert , that the comming of christ in the flesh , and the consequents thereof , the breaking down the partition wall , taking in the gentiles by faith , &c. without taking in infants into the visible church christian , were greater me●cies then the jewish infant churchmembership ( which was clogged with legal burdens , and was an imperfect state ) and did abundantly countervail the jewish infant visible churchmembership in the best state of that , and did bring as much benefit to infants as that relation did . . that the infants of believing gentiles no members of the visible church christian are not in worse but be●ter condition , in respect of any real evangelical blessing , then the hebrew infants were with their churchmembership . . because the spiritual blessings of regeneration , in dwelling of the spirit ▪ justification , remission of sins , adoption , gods favour , protection , provision , eternal life , are as much assured to them in infancy without visible churchmembership , as they were with it . . they do actually enjoy sooner these mercies , if in the invisible church ( without which none ever enjoyed them ) and in more ample m●nner without jewish visible churchmembership , then they did with it , the spirit being now more powred out , the g●spel cleared , the ch●rch enl●rged , onely legal ceremonies , and rest in canaan wit● prosperity therein being taken away . mr. b. and the reader hereby may fully understand what i deny , and what i grant , and how i answer this his petty reasoning without yeelding the cause , and when he hath refuted these ass●rtions , le● him sing his triumph , and not as he vainly and insolently doth afore the victory . he adds . but yet let us follow it further . and . what means mr. t. to talk of mercy to others , when our question is , whether it be a mercy to themselves to be unchurched ? . ●y this arguing be may prove any thing almost in the world a mercy : for all shall work together for good to them that love god , rom. . . and therefore if i should ask him , whether it be in mercy to wicked men , that god giveth them over to themselves , and at last damneth them ▪ mr. t. may thus answer that it is ▪ for it is a mercy to the whole catholick church , that is , to other men : but what is this to the damned ? so mr. t. saith , it is a mercy to the whole catholicke church : but what is that to infants who are unchurched ? answ. . what i mean , he may if he please discern by what is here said , and in what sense infants may be said to be unchurched , and how it may be a mercy to them and others . . the damnation of themselves cannot be a mercy to wicked men when it is a benefit to the elect , because it never produceth them good : but the mercy to the catholick church is a mercy to believers infants , . in that it frees them from legal burthens ; . in that there is a near capacity and probability of the best good for them remaining in their parents or others godly families . he adds . and what a strange reason is that of mr. t. to say , it is a mercy , because their churchstate was carnal ▪ fleshly and agreeable to their minority ; but ours is spiritual . ] what is this to them that are put out of that carnal churchstate , and kept out of this spiritual churchstate too ? if they had been admitted into this better state ( as no doubt they are ) then he had said somewhat . else is not this as great a mercy to the poor off cast jews ? they are put out of the carnal churchstate too . but did god give so many admirable elogies of the jews church ; and can mr. t. yet think that it is better to be of no visible church , then to be of theirs ? answ. i alledge the more spiritual churchstate as one reason of gods changing of churchmembership by birth into churchmembership by faith , and as a mercy to the catholick church ; for thereby they are free from the bondage they were in under carnal ordinances , which infants are partakers of in actual possession , and capable of the spirit , though they be not actually visible churchmembers ; and therefore it is not true that by my doctrine they are kept out of the spiritual church-state . and mr. b. doth much mistake , as if the carnal churchstate the jew had when christ was come was a priviledge or benefit : for though many admirable elogies were given by god of the jews church , yet none of them were given of it in christs time , they were a rebebellious and gainsaying peo●le , a generation of vipers , denied the holy one , and the just , and desired a murtherer , made the temple a den of theeves , &c. and therefore i verily think it was better then to be of no visible church , then to be of theirs . as for the jews who believed not , they were justly put out of gods favour , their temple was destroyed , and they cast out of their land for denying christ : yet they were not put out of their carnal churchstate actually ; for they adhere to it unto this day , and it is their curse . . saith mr. b. and where did mr. t. learn in scripture to call the jews churchstate carnal ? answ. from cor. . . where the nation of the jews are called israel after the flesh , in contradistinct●on to the israel of god or in the spirit , rom. . . gal. . . from rom. . , . where there is distinction of the jew outwardly from the jew inwardly , of circumcision , which is outward in the flesh , from circumcision that is of the heart in the spirit , not in the letter . from gal. . , , , . where hierusalem that then was is contradistingued to hierusalem above , and the former is in bondage with her children , the later free , the children of the former born after the flesh , the later after the spirit . from gal. . . where to be of faith is to begin in the spirit , to be of the works of the law is to be perfect by the flesh . from ephes. . . where their circumcision is termed circumcision in the flesh made by hands . from philip. . , , . where hebrew discent , and churchmembership thereby are termed the flesh . from heb. . . where their ordinances are termed carnal ordinances . i had thought this had been so well known to mr. b. that it needed not proof . but he further demands , or what doth he mean by churchstate ? whether the essential nature of the church it self ? or any carnal ordinances of worship which were accidental to it ? is not this word [ churchstate ] like his former of [ church call ] devised terms to darken the matter with ambiguities , and signifying what pleaseth the speaker . answ. neither the term [ church state ] nor [ church call ] were devised by me , but are terms ordinary in the writings of divines . i have shewed the use of the later before , and proved that the church hath its denomination and definition from it , and that according to mr. b. himself : and for the former , me thinks mr. b. should not be ignorant of it , who its likely knows a book of learned dr. usher , intituled , de visibilis ecclesiae successient & statu . and to imagine it to be devised to darken the matter with ambiguities is one of mr. bs. evil surmises , when the word is as apposite for its use as any term i think mr. b. can give in stead of it ; and if it signifie what pleases the speaker , it is so much the better , for that is the use of words ; and this later accusation acquits it from darkening the matter with ambiguities , if it signifie ; for that which signifies the speakers mind doth give light , and not darken with ambiguities : so ridiculous is mr. bs. accusation , that his later words cross his former . and to help mr. bs. understanding if i can , i tell him i mean by it neither the essential nature of the church it self , nor any carnal ordinances of worship which were accidental to it ; but the manner of being or qualification incident to it from providence , whereby it is denominated flourishing or decaying , numerous or small , rich in knowledge or poor , carnal or spiritual by reason of the way of entry into it as natural descent or faith , more or less of the spirit , the promises , ministery , rites , &c. it hath . which term [ state ] comprehends innumerable terms , such as are rich and poor , noble or ignoble , fat or lean , and many more ; which whether they are to be reduced to the predicaments of quality , relation , or passion , or to be called modi entis i leave it to logicians to determine , i hope this will serve to indoctrinate mr. b. in the meaning of my speech . but mr. b. is resolved to follow me with more questions , which he must not expect i will answer , as i have done , after this bout . . saith he , and how long might i wait before mr. t. would prove from scripture , that it is a mercy to the whole catholick church to have all infants put out or unchurched ? these are the men that make their followers believe that we have no scripture for our cause , when themselves give us but their magiste●ial dictates . but i wonder whence he should fetch such a dream . what ? are infants such ●●ads or vipers in comparison of men of years , that it is a mercy to the whole catholicke church to have them cast out ? are not the aged worse then they ? and were we not once all infants ? answ. i say not that all infants are put out of the catholick church , and so need not prove it ; nor had i asserted it was it either in the dispute or sermon my work to prove what i said by way of answer , but for mr. b. to disprove it . yet what i assert is distinctly before set down , not without some proof from scripture ; and i may wait long afore either i shall finde his pretended ordinance of infant visible churchmembership unrepealed proved from scripture , or my assertions disproved by any solid arguments without idle questions , and vain exclamations , which i resolve to neglect . and of the former sort are the questions here , which insinuate as if i conceived it were a mercy to the catholick church that infants are not in the visible church christian as members , because they are toads , vipers , worse then the aged ; whereas i onely say , that the dissolving of the jewish church national ( in which and by reason of which infants were visible churchmembers , and no otherwise ) was in mercy to the catholick church : which is the very doctrine of the apostle , rom. . , . that through their fall salvation is come to the gentiles , the fall of them is the riches of the world , the diminishing , decay or loss of them the riches of the gentiles . which happened not through the wickedness of infants above other men ; but partly through the wickedness of the jewish people ( of which the infants were a part , and onely churchmembers there , and while that nation were gods church ; ) partly through gods contrivance , which was , that the gentiles should have their course of mercy while the jews were broken off , and at last both have mercy in their season . mr. b. goes on in his cavilling vein . if this doctrine be true , why may we not expect to be taught , that infants must also be cast out of heaven , in mercy to the whole catholick church ? answ. beca●se we find no such taught by the apostle as the other doctrine of mine concerning the mercy to the catholick church is by breaking off ●he jewish church . if i● be ( saith he ) no carnal churchstate to have infants in heaven , why is it a carnal churchstate which containeth infants in it on earth ? answ. that any are infants in heaven it s not likely . . if there should be , yet being fully sanctified , they should not be carnal , but spiritual , and the church there onely consist of spiritual persons by spiritual regeneration ; whereas if the church christian should consist of infant visible churchmembers by carnal generation , the state of it would be carnal as the jewish was , and not spiritual by faith , as the scripture makes it , joh. . , . & . , . gal. . , . again , saith mr. b. and if it be no benefit to the catholike church to have infants kept out of heaven , nor no hurt to the church to see them there ; why should it be a benefit to the whole church to have them kept on earth ? or any hurt to the church to see them here members ? answ. it were no hurt if god had so ordered it ; their non-visible christian churchmembership is a benefit to the catholike church in the manner before said , because god hath so ordered it . but yet ( saith mr. b. ) let us come a little nearer ; what ever it may be to enemies or to man-haters ( of which sort the church hath none ) yet me thinks to those that are love as god is love , and that are merciful as their heavenly fa●her is merciful , and who are bound to receive little children in christs name , and who are become as children themselves ; to such it should seem no such mercy to have all infants unchurched . but such are all true members of the church ; and therefore to the church it can be no such mercy . answ. i wish it were true that the visible church ( of which we are speaking ) hath no enemies or man-haters . it is not true that wee are bound to receive little children in christs name ; nor do i say that it is a mercy to have all infants unchurched ▪ or that they are all unchurched ; nor do i think it true th●t all true members of the church visible , are such as mr. b. describes . but this i say , the non-visible church-membership christian of infants is such a mercy as i describe , however it seem to the church . but yet nearer ; saith mr. b. whatsoever it may be to strangers , yet me thinks to the parents it should seem no such mercy to have their children put out of the church : hath god naturally planted such tender affections in parents to their children ? and doth grace increase it ? and the scripture encourage it ? and yet must they take it for a mercy , that their children are put out ? when mr. t. will not say it is a mercy to the children . answ. to the parents notwithstanding their natural affection , it is a mercy , and ought to seem a mercy , that god hath dissolved the jewish national visible churchmembership , and by consequent their infant visible churchmembership , and hath freed them and their infants from the legal bondage , and hath out of all nations gathered his church by preaching the gospel , without admission of infants into the visible church christian. and surely if this reason were good , parents might complain that their children are not admitted to the lords supper as the jews children were to the passeover . yet further , saith he , why then hath god made such promises to the parents for their seed ? as if much of the parents comfort lay in the welfare of the children ; if it be a mercy to them that they are kept out of the church ▪ may not this doctrine teach parents to give their children such a blessing as the jews did ? his bloud be on us and our children . for their curse is to be broken off from the church ; and if that be a mercy , the jews are then happier then i take them to be : and how can we then pray , that they may be graffed in again ? answ. i find no promises in all the new testament , much less evangelical promises , made to believing parents for their seed , nor any whit of the comforts of parents in the new testament in the welfare of their children , but in christ and in the fellowship of the spirit , phil. . . yea , whereas in the old testament most of the promises were of increase of children , their prosper●●y , rest and peace in their dwellings , &c. in the new testament an unmarried estate , if without sin , is rather preferred as more happy , cor . . and the poor and persecuted rather adj●dged blessed then the rich and those that live in p●ace , matth . , . however parents have as much comfort by my doctrine rightly understood , as they can have by mr. bs. nor doth it teach parents to curse their children as the jews did . the curse of the jews was not in being broken off from the jewish church national , but in being not in the olive , that is the church of true believers , but in the national church jewish ; and that they were not broken off from it , was their unhappiness : and we are to pray , not that they may be graffed in again into the national church jewish , but into the invisible church of true believers and elect persons . . saith mr. b. but what if all this were true ? suppose it were a mercy to the whole church to have infants put out ; yet it doth not follow that god would do it . he is the god of infants , as well as of the aged ; and is mercifull to them as well as others ; all souls are his : he can shew mercy to the whole church in an easier way then by casting out all their infants : and his mercy is over all his works . answ. god is the god of the spirits of all flesh , yet he hath not mercy on all flesh ; all souls are his , yet he did not take any one nation for his people besides the jewish ; his mercy is over all his works , yet he hath broken off the jews from being his people ; he is naturally mercifull , yet sheweth mercy freely as he will. i say not , he casteth out all infants of the church out of the church ; yet sure if it were supposed a mercy to the whole church to have infants put out , it seems to follow that god would do it , sith all things work for their good , and with his son he gives them all things , rom. . , . cor. . , . i will tell you , saith mr. b. how mr. t. followeth this with examples . he saith , [ that the release of the jews servants , and the consecration of the nazarites and first born , and the land of canaan , were all priviledges , and yet these are taken away . ] to which i answer : there are abundance far greater given in their stead : and what is that then to those that have nothing in their stead ? besides , if mr. t. think that the mercy of churchmembership is of as low a nature as to be nazarites , or to have canaan , he is much mistaken . answ. not onely these , but other examples , as namely of the priests and levites children , who were by inheritance to attend at the tabernacle , and to be nourished by the offerings , and to be priests ; instead of which , ministers infants have now no particular mercy , they are not visibly in the order of priests , as the infants of aarons house were : of the poor , who had tythes and corners of fields , and sheaves fallen , and other provision , and so had the stranger ; do shew , that a mercy was taken aw●y from infants of israel , and no particular mercy in the same or the like kind given to infants of christian people or ministers in their stead . when mr. b. sh●ws what those abundance for greater mercies are , which are given in the stead of the release of the hebrew servants even infants , the restoring their inheritances at the year of jubilee , the consecration of nazarites and first born even infants , the reckoning the children of the priests as heirs to the priesthood , provision for them ▪ the poor , the strangers ; it is likely the same he alledgeth will serve to sh●w how infants visible churchmembership is recompensed by the mercies now given to the whole church and them . nor do i think i am mistaken in counting the mercy of infants visible churchmembership to be of as low a nature as to be consecrated as nazarites , or ●he first born male which was to be presented to god , or to be reck●ned by discent priests ; but am sure mr. b. doth over-value the jew●sh infant visible churchmembership , and thereby misleads himself and others : and therefore i desired him in my letter to set down distinctly what was the benefit and priviledge of infant visible church-membership which he asserted ; the refusal whereof ( when he desired to have a copy of my sermon , that he might ( as his fashion is ) cavil , rather then answer it ) shews his unwillingness to have his tenet examined , that truth might appear . he adds . but he saith [ that it was a priviledge to the jews to be owned as gods people distinct from the rest of the world , while others were passed by , yet this is repealed in mercy to us gentiles . ] answ. in my distinctions before you may find this answered . . then it was no mercy to the jews you think , but to us gentiles : but our question is , whether it be a mercy to the unchurched infants ? . the jews being a church and people of god , was a mercy ; and this god took not from any of them , but those that cast it away : but the restraction of this to them , and the exclu●●on of the gentiles , was no mercy to them , and this onely ( with the ceremonial accidents ) did god take away by the charge of his laws . it would have been rather an ad●i●ion to the happiness of the believing jews , to have the gentiles taken in , by taking down the partition wall : and so it will be when the jews are graffed in again , and both made one body . why else doth the jewish church pray for her little sister that had no breasts ? and noah pray , that god would perswade japhet to dwell in the tents of sem ? though the restriction therefo●e and the exclusion ( which are no mercies to the jews ) be taken away , yet no mercy i● taken from them , but what is supplied with a far grea●er in christ : and though they partake not of these , yet that is because of their o●n unbelief , who reject it , and not because the new law doth exclude them : for god hath in his new law or covenant made a deed of gift of chri●● and all his benefits , to all that will receive him , whether jew or gentile , without excluding or excepting any . and for his denying to particular persons the grace of conversion , that is nothing to our present business , as belonging to decree , and not to any change in the laws : and it was denied to many before christ , and granted to many thousands jews since christ ; and shall be at last to far more . answ. the vanity of his distinctions is shewed before ; the repeal of the priviledge of the jews mentioned was in mercy to the jew believer , though chiefly to the gentiles , and the infants of both , but in justice to the jewish nation . the jews being a church and people of god , was a mercy , an● to be the onely nation that were gods people , was an agravation of it : and this god took away from believers , they were put out of the jewish church national , joh. . . it was a mercy that the jews were the onely nation god took for his people , and this god did take away , not by change of his laws , though that followed , but by his severity , r●m . . . breaking off that nation from the olive . it would have been a happiness to the believing jews , to have had the gentiles taken in without dissolving the national church jewish , if god had thought it good ; but he otherwise determining , it was a mercy to the catholick church , that they were dissolved . if no mercy be taken from them , but what is supplied with a far greater in christ ; then christ in the flesh is , instead of the jewish church national , and consequently of the infants visible churchmembership therein , a far greater mercy , which i said before , and mr. b. gainsaid . that in gods new covenant there 's no deed of gift of christ but to the elect , is proved before . mr. b. ends thus . and thus you have heard all that mr. t. upon deliberation hath said to this argument . and yet ( would any man think it ? ) he concludeth that [ that this abundant clear answer to all alledged from the visible churchmembership of the children of the jews . ] o never let my soul be tainted with this errour , which so strangely bereaves men of common ingenuity ! answ. let my answer and mr. bs. argument be compared , and the reader judge of our ingenuity . i for my part hope and pray that god will never leave me to be carried away with such frivolous reasonings as these of mr. b. are . sect . lxv . mr. bs. argum. from matth. . . revel . . . for infants visible churchmembership ch. , . are answered . i have answered mr. bs. th , th , th , th , th . chapters of the first part of his book of baptism in this review , part. . sect. , , , . i think it not needful as yet to make reply to the exceptions against my answers , and therefore go on to answer mr. bs. th . chapt. which begins thus . my th . arg. shall be drawn from matth. . , , . from whence i argue thus ; if christ were so tender over jerusalem that he would have gathered them as a hen gathereth her chickens , then surely he would not have put them or their infants out of the church ( or repealed the merciful gift and ordinance of their churchmembership . but christ was so tender of them , that he would have so gathered jerusalem , &c. therefore sure hee would not have unchurched their infants . the antecedent is the words of the lord jesus : the reason and strength of the consequence lieth here . . it is not some particular jews that christ would have gathered to himself ( and so into his church as accomplished with higher priviledges then before : ) but it was jerusalem , whole jerusalem ( which is usually put for all judea and the jewish nation ) now if jerusalem were gathered , then infants must needs be gathered . i know nothing of any moment that can be said against this ; but leave it to any tender conscience to judge , whether it be likely that christ should have unchurched all their infants , when he would have gathered to himself the whole nation , or whole jerusalem . if that contemptible answer should here bee again returned [ that christ would have gathered them onely into the invisible church ] i have answered it before ; they that are visibly or apparently gathered into the invisible church , are gathered also thereby into the visible : and if all jerusalem had been gathered , it had been doubtless a visible gathering : o that i could see as clear evidence for many other controverted truths , as i see in these words of the lord jesus , to convince me , that hee would have gathered all jerusalem into his visible church , and cons●quently not have unchurched all their infants : i should tremble to think of resisting so plain testimonies of god. if christs own words will not serve , i know not what will. if any say , that by jerusalem is meant onely the aged of jerusalem ; i answer : it is vain to call for scripture if they dare contradict it at pleasure ; or so make it speak onely what they list . it is not fully a nation or city without the infants . besides , jerusalem had inchurched infants when christ so spake ; therefore how could his words be otherwise understood by them , unless hee had excepted infants . . yet further , christ doth not in vain use the similitude of a hen gathering her chickens ; the hen gathereth the youngest most tenderly : yea how long will she sit the very egs ? now who dare expound thi● thus ? as a hen gathereth her young ones under her wings , so i would have gathered the aged of you , but none of your young ones visibly . . and doth not their leaving of their house desolate , mean the temple , and so the unchurching them , till they say , blessed i● hee that commeth in the name of the lord : and ●he● jerusalem ( and therefore infants ) shall bee inchurched again ? so christ jesus himself hath made me believe that he would have gathered all jerusalem , but unchurched none of them . answ. it is not christ jesus , but mr. bs. own shall●wness or prejudice that makes him believe that here is a●y thing for infants visible churchmembership . that jerusalem is usually put for all judea and the jewish nation , is more then i finde . but that by jerusalem and her children are not meant infants , is apparent from the text . . they are meant by jerusalem who killed and stoned them that were sent , but they were not infants , ergo. . becau●e the way whereby christ would have gathered jerusalem was by preaching the gospel to them , as is manifest . in that hee used no other way . . this was the way which he often attempted , which is implied in the phrase , how often would i ? . this is the way they refused , implied in the phrase [ and ye would not ] that is , yee would not obey my admonitions of repentance nor believe the gospel ; and so piscator annal ▪ loci saepissimè & benignissimè à me admoniti , non tamen obtemporare voluistis . . from vers . . . where the way by which hee would have gathered them , seems to bee by sending prophets , and wise men , and scribes or apostles luk. . . to them , which were not sent to infants . how oft would i have g●thered ? that is ( say some ) by the external ministery of the prophets sent unto thee , vers . , . trap● on matth. . . . the often attempt of gathering here , is the same with the visitation , or over sight luke . . as the agreement of the expressions and matter in both places compared e●idently shews , now that was by teaching , luke . , . and thus the new annot. of thy visitation ] as if he had said in thy visitation , in which god manifested himself in my person offering thee mercy . . thus protestant divines often expound it , answering arminians and others , inferring hence resistability of converting grace by mans free●will ; as diodati in his annot . on matth. . . expresseth their minde , wee must of necessity understand this to bee meant of the dispensation of outward means by the word ▪ exhortations , commandments , &c. now it cannot be said that christ would have this way gathered the infants of jerusalem , for hee had said he often by his own , and prophets and apostles preaching would or attempted to do it . but this he would nor nor attempted to do to infants , ergo , they are not meant under the term [ jerusalem . ] . this is proved also from the end of his gathering , which was , that they might bee his disciples , but hee never would or did gather any infants to him as his disciples , ergo. . it is proved also thus . those onely are meant by jerusalem , whom christ would have gathered but they would not : but this cannot be said of infants , that they would not , there was no nilling of conversion in them , ergo. . they are mea●t by jerusalem who are meant by the city luk. . . and there they are meant , who v. . might have known in that their day the things belonging to their peace , but then they were hid from their eyes . who knew not the time of their visitation , v. . but this is not meant of infants , ergo. in answer therefore to mr. bs. argument altering the termes [ put out , unchurch , which my doctrine doth not assert ] into [ repeal the ordinance of infants visible churchmembership ▪ or leave out of his visible church ] i deny the consequence of his major , and deny that which he alledgeth for proof of it , that by jerusalem is mean● all the people of jerusalem , even the infants . and to his wish , i return a wish ▪ o that i could see as clear evidence for many other controverted tru●hs , as i see in these words to convince me that christ means no● infants by those he would have gathered unto him , and though i would not have mr. b. of any man to turn quaker , yet i think he should rather tremble at the allegation of this text so impertinent to his purpose , and not understand by [ jerusalem ] synecdochically the persons of years . nor would this be any more to contradict the scripture at pleasure , or to make it speak onely what we list , then for him to understand by [ jerusalem ] synecdochically ( as he doth ) the jewish nation , or by [ jerusalem ] to understand metonymically the people , even the infants of the city . to make the interpreting of speeches by tropes a contradicting them , or making them speak what they list is such a ●oolery , as i should rather have imagined to have come from some woman or lay-preacher , then from a man of such magnified learning as mr. b. is , had i not found it printed in his book . as for what he saith , it is not fully a nation or city without infants , though it were true ( as it is not ) yet that proves not that infants are meant in every speech of a nation or city , any more then math. . . infants shall rise against infants , because nation shall rise against nation , or matt. . . infants were moved saying , who is this ? because the whole city was moved , saying , who is this ? and hereby it may he seen how easily christ might be understood without including infants , and so much the more easily , because though infants were in the jewish church , yet christ who spa●e not of gathering into the jews church , but to himself ( in whose visible church were no infants ) might be the more readily conceived to except infant● , yea if he had meant infants could not be well understood by them . and for his challenge , i answer , i dare thus expound his gathering , of gathering onely the aged into his visible church , if mr. b. imagine ( as he doth ) the similitude of a hen to be used in vain if infants be not meant , because the hen gathereth the youngest , by this reason christ should use the similitude in vain if he would gather any other then infants , sith the hen gathereth not hens and old cocks under her wings , but onely little chickens . me thinks by leaving their house desolate , mr. b. should not mean the unchurching them . for then it will follow , that all the jewish nation were unchurched ( for so he will have meant by jerusalem ) which will overthrow many of his conceits about making jewish and gentile churches one body , the same ▪ the church not broken off , &c. and prove afore he is aware the repeal of his pretended ordinance of infants visible churchmembership . but enough of the silly insipid arguings ( if i may use his language ) of this chapter , let 's see whether the next have any better . ch. . my th . arg . saith mr. b. is from rev. . . if the kingdoms of this world , either are or shal be the kingdoms of the lord and his christ ; then infants also must be members of his kingdom : ( and consequently the gift and ordinance for their churchmembership is not repealed . ) but the antecedent is the words of the text . what can be said against this that is sense or reason ? if they say , that by [ kingdoms ] is meant [ some part of the kingdoms ] excluding all infants : i say such men need not look into the scripture for their faith : they may make their own creed on these terms , let scripture say what it will : i know some places of scripture may be produced , where the word kingdom and jerusalem , &c. is taken for a part : but if wee must take words always improperly , because they are so taken sometime , then wee shall not know how to unde●stand any scripture , and humane language will become useless ; and by this any man may put by any testimony of scripture , though it were to prove the most fundamental truth : as the arrians put off all testimonies for the godhead of christ , because magistrates are called gods. but the circumstances of this text do evince to us , that christ speaketh properly of whole jerusalem and whole kingdoms , and not improperly of any part onely . . if they say , that [ by kingdom of christ ] is not meant the church of christ , they then speak against the constant phrase of the scripture ; which cals christs kingdom his church and conversim : christ is king and saviour of the same society . what is christs kingdom but his church ? i know the kingdome of christ is more large and more special : but here it cannot be meant of his kingdom in the larger sense , as he is de jure , onely king ( in regard of voluntary obedient subjects ) nor as hee over ruleth common societies and things : for so the kingdoms of the world were ever the kingdoms of the lord and his christ , and it could not be said that now they are become so . so that for any thing i can see , this text alone were sufficient to decide the controversie , whether infants must b●e church-members . answ. . i think this may bee said with sense and reason , yea and clear evidence out of the text , that by [ kingdoms of the world , kingdoms of our lord and his ch●ist , or as some copies have it , the kingdom of the world is become ] is not meant the men or members of either kingdoms , and so neither infant , nor adult persons , but the dominion , power , rule it self which the men of the world had usurped , chiefly antichrist , which was christs before of right , but not till then become his by actual ▪ full , and peaceable possession , his enemies or the chief of them being no● till then subdued , but tyranizing over his subjects . and though i confess the term connotes men over whom christ should have rule , yet the persons ov●r whom christ should rule then , were not onely the church , but also his enemies , whom he should subdue , and keep under , and judge , revel ▪ , . that by [ kingdome ] is meant rule , is manifest from many places , m●tth . . , . john . . heb. . . so revel . . , . and that this is the meaning here , seems to me to be manifest , . from that which is added , and he shall reign for ever and ever ; which being the consequent of the kingdome or kingdomes of the world becomming our lords and his christ , it shews , that the kingdomes note the rule or dominion whereby he reigns , not the persons over whom he reigns . . the same is confirmed from v. . where the same thing is expressed in those words , we give thee thanks , o lord god almighty , which art , and wast , and art to come , because thou hast taken to thee thy great power , and hast reigned : and wh●rein that is , is expressed v. , in judging all , rewarding his servants , destroying the corrupters of the earth . . from ch . . . where again the same or like thing is expressed thus , now is come salvation and strength or power and the kingdome of our god , and the power or authority of his christ ; for the accuser of our brethren is cast down : where kingdome and power are put together , to shew , that by the kingdome is not meant the persons over whom the rule is , but the rule it self . . it is so to be understood where it is mentioned as i conceive in the sense meant revel . ● . . as namely cor. . . tim. . . and other places . . thus diodati in his annot. on revel . . . the kingdomes ] that is to say , now god reigneth with his son , and that absolutely having subdued all his enemies . cor. . . that i omit others . . this sense is the more confirmed , if it be read as some copies have it , the kingdome of this world is become . on the other side mr. bs. interpretation seems to me either not sense , or not true . for then it should be thus , all the kingdomes of the world , that is every person in the world , should be christs church , that is , a society of persons separated from the world to god , or called out of the world , &c. as he defines the church , of baptism , pag. . now can this be good sense to be all the world , the kingdomes of the world , and to be called or separated from or out of the world ? can all the world be separated from the world ! and there is no truth in this interpretation , sith it never was nor shall be , that the kingdomes of the world , that is , every person old and young in all the kingdomes of the world , shall become christs church . for then christ should have no enemies to remove out of his kingdome , contrary to the parable , matth. . . expounded v. . , , , . now if this be the sense , then it makes nothing for infants visible churchmembership , nor by [ kingdomes ] is all the members of a kingdome meant , and so infants , but both the consequence of mr. bs. major is justly denied , and the inference from the consequent of it . for if it be meant of christs rule ( as the texts shew ) though it connote the persons over whom the rule is , yet they are not thereby proved churchmembers ; for in the sense there meant , the rule or reign is over enemies as well as subjects : yea , if the reign were over subjects , and infants comprehended , yet sith the reign over them is onely invisible , this cannot prove infants visible churchmembers . nor are mr. bs. reasons of any force to prove that revel . . . by the kingdome of christ must be meant the church . for it is not true , that the constant phrase of scripture calls christs kingdome his church and conversim . for though i deny not that ●he church is termed the kingdome of christ , yet i deny this is the constant phrase of scripture to call the kingdome of christ the church , much less conversim . ●he places alledged before , with many more , do evince the contrary ; yea , there appear to me but few places wherein the church is termed the kingdome of christ. i am not yet fully resolved , that it is any where so meant , except in that matth. . . though i deny not the fitness of the expression . nor doth his reason hold , that here it cannot be meant of christs kingdome in the largest sense , as he over-ruleth common soci●ties and things ; for though it be true , that in some sort so the kingdomes of the world were ever his , that is , he did always so order them , that they passively did his will ; yet it is certain , that in the reign of antichrist the kingdomes of the world , that is , the rule which was exercised was not actively for god or christ , but as it is expresly said , revel . . ●hey worshipped the dragon who gave power to the beast , blasphemed god , made war with the saints , overcame them ; the beast had power over all kindreds and tongues and nations , so that all that dwelt on the earth should worship him , whose names were not written in the lambs book of life : and so they gave their kingdome to the beast , revel . . , , , . though they did gods will but after the lamb overcame them , v. . and the kingdomes of the world were his , when the kings did bate the whore , and make her des●lite , &c. so that this may well be expounded thus , the kingdomes of the world , that is , the rule which the kings of the world have exercised for the whore shall be so changed , that whether out of revenge of the mischiefs the whore hath done them , or out of love to christ , they shall hate her , and execute christs doom upon her , which was not always done . and it seems a piece of inconstancy in mr. b. who would not have the kingdomes of the world taken for a part in the forepart of this chapter , and yet denies it to be taken in the largest sense in the later part . and how the infant churchmembership of christians can be gathered from the terme , kingdomes of the world becomming christs , more then any others , i see not . but i proceed . . suppose it were granted , that by the kingdomes of christ were meant men , and the church of christ , revel . . . yet sure it is far more likely that by the kingdome of christ should be meant the invisible , then the visible church . for the invisible church either solely or chiefly is called the kingdome of christ , and he is stiled the king of saints , rev. . . and mr. b. saith here , christ is king and saviour of the same society . but in this sense i should grant the conclusion , that infants must be members of christs kingdome . and sure●y the visible church-members who are not true believers , have not christ to rule over them , but are enemies to christ , and satans subjects , and therefore not truly but putatively onely in christs kingdome , nor they any part of it . they are not children of the kingdome , matth. . . . but were it granted that revel . . . is meant the visible church , yet that therefore infants must bee a part of it , because they are a part of a kingdome follows not , for mr. b. saith , i know some places of scripture may be produced where the word kingdome and jerusalem , &c. is taken for a part . which is enough to shew that the argument is not good which he useth , for it must rest on this proposition , where jerusalem is mentioned there all jerusalem is meant , where kingdomes are mea●t whole kingdomes are meant , and therefore infants : which propositions are co●tradicted by mr. b. himself , and therefore it the whole controversie were referred to these two texts matth. . . rev. . . to decide , mr. bs. cause would be lost for want of proof , even from his own confession . nor doth mr. b. produce any thing to prove that by [ kingdoms revel . . . ) is meant the whole o● a kingdome even the infants , but onely prattles that which me thinks a learned man should be a●●amed of . for there is no colour of reason to charge them who expound [ kingdom ] by a synecdoche of the whole for a part , with making their own creed without scripture , taking words alwayes in an improper sense , making humane language useless , putting by any scripture such as are produced for christs godhead , when he himself saith it is sometimes in scripture so taken , and gives no proof of its being taken otherwise here . yea , by rejecting such exposition without rea●on mr. b. may be m●re truely said to make his own creed without scripture , to make the scripture unintelligible , humane language useless , to fortifie biddle a●d other deceivers , in their gross opinions of the anthropomorphites , and others , insomuch that i think if the arians were refuted no better then mr. b. doth here the expounding of kingdoms and jerusalem synecdochically , arianism would quickly prevail , and errours easily take , especially with schollers . . lastly , were it granted that by [ kingdoms ] were meant the visible church ; and that infants were a part of the kingdom thus meant , yet this very text , and that according to mr bs. own reasoning ▪ would prove the repeal o● their churchmembership till the accomplishment of the thing meant rev. . . which whether it be yet , or shall be till the day of judg●ment is very uncertain , for mr. b. here reasons thus , it cannot be meant of christs kingdom in the larger sense ▪ for so the kingdoms of the world were ever the kin●doms of the lord and his christ , and it could not be said that now they are become so in like ●anner i may say , if the visible churchmembership of infants were meant rev. . . then it was not so before the th . trumpet sounded ; for it is said , then the kingdoms of the world were become the kingdoms of christ , if they were then become they were not before , and consequently infants visible churchmembership not before . now when the th . trumpet sounded is uncertain ; mr. brightman makes it to begin at qu. elizabeths reign , the new annotations when antichrist is weakened , mr. mede at the imperial reign of christ in the great day of judgement , which v. , . do favour . and if infants be not visible churchmembers till then , when perhaps there shall be no infants at all , mr. b. will have but a very cold suit of it , if the deciding of the whole controversie , whethe● infants must be churchmembers , be referred to this text alone . but enough , if not too much of these ridiculous though confident allegations of mr. b. sect . lxvi . mr. bs. th , th , . arg. concerning infants better condition in the n. t. in his th , th , th , chapters part . . of bapt. to prove their visible churchmembership , are answered . chap. . saith mr. b. my th . arg . is this : if the beli●ving jews children ( and cons●quently the parents in point of comfort ) be not in a worse condition since christ , then they were before , then their children ought still to be churchmembers . ( and consequently the gift and ordinance is not repealed . ) but certainly the believing jewes children ( and consequently the parents in point of comfort ) are not in a worse condition since christ then they were before : therefore their children ought still to bee churchmembers . the antecedent i scarce take him for a christian that will deny . christ did not come to make believers or their children miserable , or to undo them , or to bring them into a worse condition . this were to make christ a destroyer , and not a saviour . hee that came not to destroy mens lives but to save them , came not destroy mens happiness but to recover them . he that would not accuse the adulterous woman , will not cast out all infants without accusation . . the consequence a man would think should be out of doubt : if it be not , i prove it thus : it is a far worse condition to be out of the visible church then to be in it : therefore if the believing jews children be cast out of the church then they are in a far worse condition then they were before : ( and so christ and faith should do them a mischief , which were blasphemy to imagine . ) answ. if mr. b. had set down , as i desired him in my letter , what the benefit , or priviledge is of infant visible churchmembership which he asserts unrepealed , and what infants lose by not being in the christian church visible , the reader with my self might have considered this argument more exactly : but till that be done , no man can exactly tell how to compare their former and later conditions wherein they are better or worse , nor how from the equall goodness of their condition their churchmembership is inferred . and for my part , i think such kind of arguings as these , to infer things that onely are by divine institution , are meer devices of mens wit , and mr. b. in using them ( as indeed they are his onely strength he hath in this point , for all the texts hee brings are quite from the matter , and some so manifestly impertinent , that a good text man would bee ashamed ever to produce them as hee doth ) doth but shew that he rests more on popular arguments which moves mens affections then scripture proofs , though most deceitfully like an impostor he entitle his book , plain scripture proof of infants churchmembership and baptism , when there is not a text that is plain for it , scarce any that hath any shew of it . but lest this argument be thought unanswerable , i shall examine it . a worse or a better condition are comparative terms , and as aristotle saith in his categ . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothing is said to bee great or small by it self , but as compared with another , so nothing is better or worse by it self , but as compared with another . it is necessary then that we examine the estate of b●lieving jewes children before and since christs comming : the estate of the believing jewes children before christ , may be conceived to bee either in actual possessions or in promises . in actual possessions they had this priviledge , that they were a part of that nation which was then gods people , separated from other people by circumcision , lawes , temple , inheritance in canaan , priesthood , and the children of the priests had this priviledge , that the males were to succeed in the priesthood , and their children to be nourished of the tithes , offerings , first fruits , the poor by a tithe and other wayes . the promises were either of special priviledge , as that christ should come out of that nation , or of temporal blessings , as that while they kept gods laws they should dwell in canaan and prosper there , or of saving blessings . these did belong onely to some believing hebrews children , not to all , to isaac not to ishmael , to jacob not to esau , the rest were onely temporal benefits , and were accompanied with a yoke of lawes and rites intollerable . the children of believing jewes condition since christ , is either in respect of saving blessings , and so it is either the same which was before , or better in respect of the easier way of comming to the knowledge of christ , in respect of the temporals . so it is in some respect worse , they are liable more to persecution with their parents , in some respects better , in that they with th●ir parents a●e exempt from the legal bon●age , which they and their parents as pa●● of that nation o● visible church were obnoxious to . so that in some sense the antecedent or minor is granted , in some sense denied , without fear of forfeiting my christianity . and to mr. bs. proofs i answer , christ did come to make jew believers children in some respect , that is , of their temporal enjoyments in canaan miserable , or under persecution , and so in a worse condition , and yet he is thereby no destroyer of mans happiness , but a saviour of them , this worse condition working for their eternal good . nor is it any absurdity to say , he that would not accuse the adulterous woman , would leave out of his visible church christian all infants without accusation , sith this leaving out was onely an act of soveraignty as a rector , not of punitive justice as a judge . but the consequence is that which i denied before and now also , and to his proof i give the same answer , which he thus exagitates . can you imagine what shift is left against this plain truth ? i will tell you all that mr. t. could say ( before many thousand witnesses i think ) and that is this , he saith plainly , that it is a better condition to infants to be out of the church now , then in it then . which ● thought a christian could scarse have believed . . are all those glorious things spoken of the city of god , and is it now better to be out of any church then in it ? answ. it is no shift but a plain truth , which if there had been many more witnesses , i should sti●l avouch as part of my faith , and mee thinks if mr. b. be a chri●●ian , and not a jew , hee should believe it too . for were not the jews infan●s by their visible churchmembership bound to be circumcised , and to keep moses law ? was not thi● an heavie and intollerable yoke ? i● it not a mercy to be freed from it ? what real evangelical promise or blessing do infan●s of believing jews now lose , by not being christian visible churchmembers ? i challenge mr. b. to shew me any one particular real evangelical blessing , which doth not a● well come to an infant of a believer unbaptiz●d , or non-admitted to visible churchmembership as to the baptized , or admitted , or any true cause of discomfort to parents by my doctrine , which is not by his own . dare he say , that the promises of savi●g grace , or protection , or other blessings , are not belonging to them because unbaptized , not admitted visible churchmembers ? if he dare not , let him forbear to calumniate my doctrine as unchristian , and tragically to represent it as cruel , and uncomfortable to parents , and so not like a solid disputant or judicious divine cleer truth , but like an oratour raise passion without judgement , and end●avour to make me and that which is a plain truth odious , which course will at last redound to his shame , if it do not pierce his conscie●ce . i said not as mr. bs. question intimates , that it is now better to be out of any church then it , but that it is a better condition to infants to bee out of the church now , then to be in it then , meaning that nonvisible churchmembership to infants now is a better condition then visible churchmembership was to them then . and for that passage , that glorious things are spoken of the city of god , to prove the contrary it is ridiculously alledged ; for that speech is meant of jerusalem , or sion preferred before all the dwellings of jacob , psal. . , , . not of all the jewish church , and to it may be well opposed that of the apostle gal. . . hierusalem which is now in bondage with her children , which proves my position . mr. b. adds . . then the gentiles , pagans infants now , are happier then the jews were then ; for the pagans and their infants are out of the church ? answ. it follows not from my position , which was of christian believers infants with those promises and probabilities they have , and from thence followes not that pagans infants out of the church without those promises and probabilities christian believers infants have , are happier then the jews were then . but , saith he , i were best to argue it a little further . . if it be a better condition to be in that covenant with god wherein he bindeth himself to be their god , and taketh them to be his peculiar people , then to be out of that covenant , then it is a better condition to be in the church as it was then , then to be out of that and this too : but it is a better condition to be in the aforesaid covenant with god , then out of it : therefore it is better to be in the church as then to be in neither . the antecedent is undeniable ▪ the consequence is clear in these two conclusions ; . that the inchurched jews were then all in such a covenant with god : this i proved , deut. . , . what mr. t. vainly saith against the plain words of this text , you may see in the end . . there is to those that are now out of the church no such covenant assurance , or mercy answerable . if there be , let some body shew it : which i could never get mr. t. to do nay he seemeth to confess in his sermon , that infants now have no priviledge at all in stead of their churchmembership . answ. if the covenant be meant ( as i have proved before , sect . . it is ) of the covenant of the law concerning setling them in canaan if they kept the law of moses , then the antecedent is not undeniable ; but it is most true , that the condition of believers and their children now with the exhibition of christ , the promises and probabilities they have of saving knowledge of christ and salvation by him , is bet●er out of the aforesaid covenant with god then in it . but the consequence was also denied , because mr. b. means the covenant of grace : and if it be meant of the covenant of evangelical grace , neither of his conclusions are true ; nor is the former proved from deut. . , . for if it were true , that all that did stand there before the lord did enter into covenant , yet they were not therefore in the covenant wherein god bindeth himself to be their god. their entring into covenant was by their promise to obey god , which they might do , and yet not be in the covenant wherein god bindeth himself to be their god , si●h gods promise is not to them that enter into covenant , but to them that keep it ; yea , if it were that they were in that covenant , yet that covenant did not put any into a happy condition but those that kept gods laws , it being made conditionally , and so not all the inchurched jews were in that covenant wherein god bindeth himself to be their god. yea , if it were as mr. b. would have it , that the promise of being their god were meant of evangelical grace ; yet according to his doctrine it is upon condition of faith , and so it is either universal to all in or out of the church , or to none but those who are believers , who were not all the inchurched jews . nor is the second conclusion true ; there is the same covenant of evangelical grace made to infants who are now no visible churchmembers as was then , to the elect now as was then , to whom alone it was made then and now . and as for mercy answerable to visible churchmembership of infants , enough is said here , sect. . mr. b. adds . . i argue from rom. . . what advantage hath the jew , and what profit the circumcision ? much every way , &c. if the jew circumcised inchurched infants had much advantage every way , and thos● without the church have none ; then it is better be in their church then without the church : but the former is plain in the text ; therefore the later is certain . answ. the advantage the jew had , was when they were the people of god above them who were heathen infidels , not above christian believers : now it is true , that it was better to be in their church , then to be without the church , as heathen infidels and their children were , but this doth not prove what is to be proved , that the condition of jews infants in their church visible , is better then of christian believers infants now no visible churchmembers . nevertheless the speech of the apostle is not meant of jew infants ; for the instance he gives of committing to them the oracles of god , is not true of the infants ; and therefore it is denied , that mr. bs. antecedent is plain in the text in respect of the forepart of it : and it is false also , that the infants of christians , though not christian visible churchmembership , have no such advantage as the jews had ; for in this thing the advantage of the christians infant is more then of the jews , sith the scriptures being now more common and better cleared , they may sooner know them then the jews infants could . saith he , again from rom. . . i argue thus : if then to the iews pertained the adoption , the covenants , the promises , &c. but no such thing to them without the church ; then it is worse to be out of the church , then to be in it as they were : but the former is the words of the holy ghost ; therefore the consequent is certain . answ. the consequence is denied . for if this were true , it would as well prove it to have been a better condition to be in the visible church jewish then , then to be in the christian church visible now . for now those things expressed rom. . , . belong not to them who are in the visible church christian ; yea , it is now christ is come the benefit of the church to be freed from them , i mean some of them , as the services which were in sacrifices , &c. the glory which was the ark , the covenant , to wit , the tables of stone , the adoption which excluded the gentiles from being gods people ; and concerning the other three , the giving of the law , discent from the fathers , christs consanguinity , they are such as cannot be to any other , and are all recompensed abundantly by the comming of christ , the gift of the spirit , preaching of the gospel , without infants visible churchmembership . and therefore though there be no such thing as those things mentioned , rom. . , . to them that are out or in the visible church christian , yet there are better things to christians , which make their condition , and the●r infants not actually visible churchmembers , better then the jewish churchstate at the best . . saith he , if it be better to be in gods house and family then out , and in his visible kingdome then out ; then it is better to be in the church ( though but as the jews were ) then out : but the former is evident ; therefore the later . answ. it is true , it is better to be in gods house and family then out , and so infants may be though they be not in the christian church visible ; and though they be not in christs visible kingdome , yet they may be in his invisible , which is most truly his kingdome and house , and this estate is better then to be in the jewish church visible . but it was not better with infants by vertue of their visible churchmembership , then it is with believers infants without it , sith they are freed from the yoke of bondage the jews were under , and have equal portion , if not more of evangelical grace then they had , and therefore the consequence is denied . . saith mr. b. if it be better to be a sanctified peculiar people of god , then to be none such ( but an excluded common unclean people ; ) then it is better to be in the church ( though but as the jews were ) then out of the church : but the former is most certain ; therefore the l●ter . the consequence is plain , in that all the church , both jews and gentiles are properly a peculiar people separated or sanctified to god ; and so are they still called in the old testament and new : and therefore those without the church must needs be an excluded people ( even as election of some implieth passing by or rejecting of others ; ) and therefore are called common and unclean frequently . answ. this being understood of the visible church , it is false that those without the church visible must needs be an excluded people from god ; for then all abortives , and still-born children , persons dying without signs sensible of faith and repentance though before god believers , excommunicate persons should b● excluded from god. and as for mr. bs. proof , that the church are properly a peculiar people separated or sanctified to god , this cannot be true in reality ( which must make their condition better ) but onely of those who are of the invisible also , of which infants may be , though not of the visible ; of the rest it is true onely in appearance , which makes their condition not better in the church , but worse then of those without , sith the odiousness of their hypocrisie provokes god against them the more , though cloaked from men by their fair profession . . sai●h he ▪ if god do not usually bestow so many or greater mercies out of his church , as he doth in it ; then it is worse to be out of the church , then to be in it ( though but as the jews were : ) but certainly god useth not to bestow so many or greater mercies out of the church , as in it ; therefore it is worse to be out then in ( though but as the jews . ) answ. mr. b. should prove the minor ( which i deny ) that god doth not bestow usually so many or greater mercies to infants now not visible christian churchmembers , as he did to infants in the jewish church visible ; ( for so must his minor be , if his conclusion oppose my position : ) which sith he proves not , my denial is sufficient answer . . saith he , if christ have made larger promises to his church visible , then to any in the world that are not of the church , ( nay , if there be no special promise at all , nor scarce common , to any without the church , but the conditional , upon their comming in , ) then is it worse to be out of the church then to be so in it : but the former is true , therefore the later . answ. mr. b. brings no proof for his minor , and therefore it is enough for me to deny it , as being false concerning abortives , still-born , infant children elect , and others . . saith he , if christ have promised his presence to his church to the end of the world , and to walk among his golden can●lesticks , and take pleasure in her ; but not so to those without the church : then it is better being with●n ( though but as the jews ) then without . but the former is true ; therefore the latter . did i not resolve on brevi●y , it were easier to cite multitudes of texts for all these . answ. mr. b. should prove his minor , that christ hath promised these things to infants in the visible church jewish , and not to infants of believers , who are not visible churchmembers christian ; for which , though he talk of multitudes of texts , yet i shall not believe he hath any till he produce them . he adds . but upon this much i say to the contrary minded as joshua in another case , choose you of what society you will be of ; but as for me and my houshold , we will be of the church of god. answ. and so say i , if i can prevail with them , or for them . mr. b. adds , and had i children , i should be loth god should shut th●m out . answ. so s●y i. again mr. b. for without are dogs , extortioners , liars , &c. even christ calls the woman of canaan that was without , a dog ; though when he had admitted her into his church , she became a daughter . answ. the words , revel . . . without are dogs , the verse foregoing shews to be meant of being without the city where the blessed enter ; and it being compared with rev. . . thence appears , that they that are without are cast into the lake burning with fire and brimstone , which is the second death : which if he say ( as his words intimate ) of all that are not visible churchmembers , he pronounceth a bloudy sentence against millions that are in heaven , and must be a hundred times more uncomfortable to parents concerning their abortive still-born children , then any thing i ever held . and his abuse of christs words , matth. . . mark . is yet more gross , in alledging them after that , rev . . as if dogs , matth. . . were of the same sense with dogs in the other , whereas rev. . . it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and doth note such as rend them that give holy things to them , matth. . . but matth. . . mark . . it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , little dogs and doth not note persons so called from their profane , ●ischievous , impious behaviour , but in opposition to children , that is jews , such as were of g●●tile discent , and therefore accounted unclean and the application of them is as bad , as if the not ma●ing infants christian visible churchmembers , made them dogs in either sense : whereas to make the● dogs , as rev. . . is meant , is not onely to make them non-visible churchmembers , but also of most wicked manners and damned wretches ; and the term dogs , as used matth. . might be applied as well to visible church-members not jewish , such as cornelius , acts . . as to those out of it . nor doth it appear that our lord christ either admitted the woman of canaan into his church or termed her daughter ( as mr. bs. words intimate ) but woman after her manifestation of faith . so that mr. b. as his wont is , doth prophanely abuse the scripture , to make his adversaries tene● appear odious without cause . what he adds , i say therefore as peter whither shall we go , if we forsake the church ? it is good for us to be here : those that will needs think it better to be out of the church then in it , let them go ; they need no anathema , nor excommunication , seeing they think it such a mercy to bee without the church , i will not say of it as paul of his ship , except ye abide in it , ye cannot ●ee saved , and so i conclude , christ did not come to believers hurt , by unchurching their children , doth but shew his malignant disposition to spit as much venome as hee can against his antagonists and their doctrine , calumniating it as tending to forsaking the church , thinking it better to be out of the church then in it , thinking it a mercy to bee without the church , christ did come to believers hurt by unchurching their children , none of which followes from my tenet , but the charging of them on it shewing mr. bs. spightfulness towards mee , and the truth , which the lord forgive him . in the same vein of scribling , mr. b. proceeds thus ch . . my th . arg is this from heb. . . [ jesus is the mediator of a better covenant established on better promises . heb. . . and the author of a better testament . rom. . , , . where sin abounded grace much more abounded ephes. . , . that ye may comprehend the height , and breadth , and length , and depth , and know the love of christ which passeth knowledg ] with a hundred the like places ; from whence i argue thus , if the church of christ be not in a worse state now ( in regard of their childrens happiness and their parents comfort therein ) then it was before christs comming , then our children ought to bee churchmembers : ( and consequently that ordinance and merciful gift is not repealed . ) but all the said texts and many more shew that the church of christ is not in a worse condition now then it was then ( but unconceivably better : ) therefore our children ought to bee churchmembers , as well as theirs was then . i have before proved that it is worse to bee out of ehe church then in it ; and then nothing else can bee said against this argument that i know of . answ. that mr. b. hath not proved any thing he should have proved in contradiction to my tenet is before shewed . to the argument here made i answer , . by denying the syllog●sm to be right in form for want of putting in the minor , those words ( in regard of their childrens happiness and their parents com●ort therein ) and adding in the minor those words ( but unconceivably better ) which were not in the major , whereby the syllogis● is monstrous consisting of ●our or five terms . . letting that pass i deny the consequence of the major , and aver that though our infants be not visible churchmembers now , yet the church of christ is not in a worse state now ( in regard of their childrens happiness and their parents comforts therein ) then it was before christs com●ing , but unconceivably better , in regard of the comming of christ in the flesh , the gift of the spirit , the preaching of the gospel , &c. . that none of the texts speak any thing for mr. bs. purpose , but rather against it . in the first it is said the covenant of which christ is mediator is better then that of which moses or aaron were mediators , and that it is established on better promises , the former containing for the most part promises of ear●hly blessings in canaan , and that promise which was of righteousness , was upon the condition of keeping the law , without promise of the spirit ; now the new covenant promises righteousness , forgiveness of all sins through faith in christ , with a promise of the spirit . but these promises belong not to the church as it is visible , but as it contains the elect , of which sort infants may be though they be not visible churchmembers , there 's not a word of promise that the visible church shall consist of a whole nation , of all sorts of people in a nation infants and elder , much less shall consist of more sorts of people then were in the jewish church , but of more ample mercies spiritual to the elect , who were all of the invisible church though not of the visible , and among them infants , abortives , stil born chi●dren , which could not be of the visible ; and therefore to speak truth , parents have more comfort by this covenant both for themselves and children , in that it assures more ample grace , and that to more then visible members under the new testament . the same answer is to be given to heb. . . though ●he word be not as mr. b. here reads it [ author ] but [ surety . ] the next text speaks of the abounding of grace by christ beyond the evil of sin by adams transgression , nothing at all of the enlargement of the visible church since christs comming in respect of the sorts of members , over that which the visible church jewish had . yea such a position as it hath not the least footing in the text , so would it not stand with mr. bs. and other paedobap●ists doctrine , that the visible churchmembership is a priviledge of believers children : but in respect of extent of persons , it was better with the visible church then , sith it comprehended serva●ts , and the bought children of strangers . and for the last text , to imagine that the love of christ is every whit the less if infants be not visible churchmembers , is such a conceit as i judge a meer dotage . but there is more of it in that which follows . further , saith mr. b. i might prove it out of ephes. . . they that are out of the church are said to be strangers to the covenant , and without hope , and without god in the world , in comparison with those within the church . o how little then do they apprehend that height and depth ! &c. or know that love of christ that passeth knowledge , who think that christ will unchurch all the infants of believers now , that took them in so tenderly in the time of moses ? how insensible do they appear to be of the glorious riches of the gospel , and the free abundant grace of christ , who have such unworthy thoughts of him , as if he would put all our children out of his church ? how little know they the difference between christ and moses , that think they might then be churchmembers and not now ? and yet ( oh the blindness ▪ ) these men do this under pretence of magnifying the sperituality of the gospel priviledges ▪ as if to he a member of christs church were a carnal thing● ; or as if the visible church were not the object and recipient of spiritual as well as common mercies ! answ. the apostle doth not say they that are out of the church any more then they that are uncircumcised are without hope , without god , nor doth he speak comparatively but absolutely . nor doth he speak universally of all without the church , but particularly of the ephesians , nor of them as out of the church universal but jewish , nor this as they were merely negatively or privatively out for want of not taking on them the yoke of moses law , but as they walked after the course of the world v. , . so that these things are not said of them barely as non-visible churchmembers then in the jewish church as infants are now in the christian ( for then these things might have bin said of cornelius and his house as well as of them , who were uncircumcised , not in the commonwealth of israel ) but as they were idolaters , alienated from the life of god , and so were neither members of the church visible , nor invisible of true believers at that time . therefore to charge us with making the estate of infants of believers by our doctrine as the estate of those mentioned ephes. . . is a meer calumny tending to nothing else but indirectly to create prejudice in men against the truth . and of the same kinde is that which followes , which insinuates as if by denying infants visible churchmembership , we lessened christs love , were insensible of it , and the glorious riches of the gospel , made christ less tender now of infants of believers then in moses time , and had such unworthy thoughts of christ , as if he would put all our children out of his church , and knew not the difference between christ and moses , all which are meer flams and frivolous false accusations , fit to take with shallow paedobaptists , who are caught with flourishes of rhetorick rather then solid reason . and for that which hee censures as my blindness , i may rather admire his in not discerning it . for however to be a member of christs church may be more then a carnal thing , yet to bee a visible churchmember by natural discent without faith is but a carnal thing , and in this respect the church jewish was more carnal then the christian church , as the scriptures intimate , though they were the object and recipient of spiritual as well as common mercies . the rest that follows is in the same calumniating vein , for wee say as the apostle gal. . . that is , that the new covenant or gentile church hath more children then the jewish , in that there were more believers in the world on the preaching of the gospel as is said revel . . . th●n in the national church jewish , nor do wee , as mr. b. belies us , make all or any of the children of the new covenant or gentile church cast out , for t●ey onely are those who are by promise , born after the spirit , that is , true believers v. , . and not as ignorantly and fondly mr. b. imagines all the infant children of gentile believers . nor do wee by our doctrine contradict the apostles words heb. . . which are ridiculously applied to infants visible churchmembership . for the better thing provided for us in that which the believers afore christ received not , which is by some conceived to bee heaven , but generally protestant divines understand it of the exhibition of christ in the flesh , and the clear knowledge of him , which if true , proves what i av●r ▪ that ▪ christs exhibition in the flesh , the gift of the spirit , and the revelation of the gospel , and the taking in of the gentiles , are in stead of that visible churchmembership the jewes had , and all the priviledges annexed . however it cannot bee infants visible church-membership as mr. b. makes it , for that they had as mr. b. asserts , and therefore the denying of it by me , makes not us in so much worse a condition then they . nor do wee by denying infants visible churchmembership aver the partition wall taken down ephes. . . by christ to be in part standing , for the partition wa●l ●s clearly meant of the body of ceremonies , and necessitie of repairing to the temple and taking the yoke of moses law on them , which kept the gentiles from joyning with the jewes in the worship of the same god , which i keep not up in any sort , much less pluck up the wall of the church or vineyard it self , and as for our children to lay all waste to the wilderness , but mr. b. by maintaining a national church or visible church-membership by natural discent , doth keep up the partition wall in true construction , sith the way of pulling down the parti●ion wall by god , ha●h been by making all one body through faith , the succession of which in the place of circumcision and the jewish churchmembership , is the doctrine of the apostle gal. . and elsewhere , as is shewed before . mr. b. continues the same prattle ch. . thus . my . arg . is this , if the children of believers be now put out of the church , then they are in a worse condicion then the very children of the gentiles were before the comming of christ : but that were most absurd and false ; therefore so is the antecedent . the consequent would plainly follow , if the antecedent were true , as is evident thus : before christs comming any gentile in the world without exception , if hee would might have his children to be members of the visible church : but now ( according to mr. t. ) no gentile may have his child a member of the church ; therefore according to this doctrine , the very gentiles as well as the jews , are in a worse condition now : and christ should come to be a destroyer , and do hurt to all the world , ( which is most vile doctrine . ) that the gentiles might have their children church-members before , if they would come in themselves , is not denied nor indeed can bee : for it is the express letter of gods law , that any stranger that would come in might bring his children , and all bee circumcised and admitted members of the jews church : this was the case of any that would be full proselytes ; god in providence did deny to give the knowledge of his laws to the gentiles , as he did to the jews , but he excepted no man out of the mercy of his covenant , that would come in and take it ( except some few that were destinated to wrath for the height of their wickedness , whom he commanded them presently utterly to destroy . ) if any say that the gentiles were admitted with their infants into no church , but the particular church of the jews , i shall answer him . that it is false ; for they were admitted into the visible universal church , as i shall shew more fully afterward . . if it were so , yet the church of the jewes was a happy church of god , in a thousand fold better state , then those without . so that he that will be of the faith of our opposers , you see , must believe that christ hath come to deny the very gentiles that priviledge which for their children they had before . yea , that you may see it was not tied to the jews onely , or the seed of abraham , even when abrahams own family was circumcised , ( and as mr. t. thinks , then first admitted all into the church : ) there was but one of the seed of abraham circumcised at that time ( for he had no one but ishmael ) but of servants that were not of his seed , there were admitted or circumcised . trained men-servants that fought for him ▪ gen. . . and how many hundred women and children and all he had , you may conjecture . and all these were then of the church , and but one of abrahams seed , and that one ishmael therefore certainly though the greatest priviledges were reserved for isaac and his seed , of whom christ was to come , yet not the priviledge of sole churchmembership ; for the very children of abrahams servants were churchmembers ▪ and so i think this is plain enough . answ. it is most vile doctrine , to say , christ came to be a destroyer , and to do hurt to all the world ; and it is most vile doctrine which mr. b. insinuates , as if the denying of infants visible churchmembership did infer their destruction : which is most palpably false , sith neither were all churchmembers visible saved , as v. g. ishmael , esau ; nor all non-visible churchmembers damned , as v. g. abortives , still-borns . and therefore mr. b. by these insinuations discovers nothing but his own vitulency , and i can justly deny the consequence of his argument till he shew me what benefit the infants of believers now do lose by not being christian visible churchmembers which tends to their destruction , and what is the benefit of infant visible christian churchmembership which is for their salvation , which they have not though they be not visible churchmembers , i mean real and not meer putative benefit . for my part , . i think still that infants were not admitted into any visible church but the jews , and their being of the universal was onely in that they were of the jewish . . i think it is a benefit not to be of the church jewish , in which men were entred by circumcision , and bound to keep the law ; and that cornelius , and such other as were not full proselytes , were in as good a case as the full proselytes ; and that it is but vain talk of mr. b. that the church of the jews was a happy church of god , in a thousand fold better estate then those without onely as proselytes of the gate . . that though there were in the jewish church other then abrahams seed , yet they were all of the hebrew common-wealth . . that many of those churchmembers had no part in any of the promises made to abraham . and i think this argument of mr. b. takes onely with them who superficially look into the thing , as mr. b. hath done . sect . lxvii . mr. th . arg . ch . . part . of baptism , from deut. . , , . is answered , and my answers vindicated . ch. . he proceeds thus . my th . arg. is from the forementioned text , deut. . , , . where all the jews , with all their little ones were entred into covenant with god. from whence i argue thus . if the covenant which those infants who were then church-members were entred into with god was a covenant of grace ( or a gospel covenant ) then it is not repealed , ( and consequently their churchmembership is not repealed , as being built on the covenant , or inseparably conjunct : ) but the said covenant which the infants who were then churchmembers did pass into , was a covenant of grace , ( as distinct from the law , which was repealed ; ) therefore neither it nor their churchmembership is repealed . here i shall prove , . that all the infants did pass into this covenant . . that they were churchmembers that did so . . that it was such a covenant of grace . . and then it will follow that it is not repealed . answ. the argument from this text was urged very hotly by mr. b. in the dispute at bewdley , jan. . . but in another manner , as i gather from two copies of the dispute , which though imperfect , yet both agree , that the argument then was ●his , they who solemnly entred into covenant with god were visible churchmembers : but the infants of the jews in the wilderness uncircumcis●d did so , ergo. mr. b. himself in his corrective , sect . . the text in deut. . was brought to prove that god entred into covenant with infants to take them for his people , and to be their god , and consequently made them churchmembers . the form here used doth vary the conclusion , and the medium and particularly the term [ who solemnly entred into covenant with god ] into this [ were entred into covenant with god ] and in his correct . sect . . into this [ god entred into covenant with infants to take them for his people , and to be their god ] between which there is so great a difference , that as the argument was framed in the dispute , i should not deny the major ; but as there it is framed , i should deny the consequence , it being certain god may enter into covenant with some to take them for his people , and to be their god , who neither are nor ever shall be visible churchmembers ; as elect pe●sons dying with death-bed repentance not manifested ▪ &c. but i shall keep to the form as it is here used . and . i grant that the churchmembership of the infants which did pass into covenant , deut. . , , . is not repealed : for it being an individual accident can neither in congruous sense be said to be repealed , nor it being non●ens now is it capable of repeal if the speech were right . . i grant also that gods covenant of grace , or his gospel covenant is not repealed , that is , changed into another covenant . . i grant also that invisible churchmembership is built on the covenant of grace , or the gospel covenant , or is inseparably conjunct with it . but this i deny . that any law of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed is contained in deut. . , , . . that the mutual covenant entred into there was the gospel covenant of grace . . i say , that if it were , yet it follows not that infant visible churchmembership is not ceased , or in mr. bs. dialect repealed . but let us view mr. bs. proof . . saith he , mr. t. denied long together in the face of many thousand people , that the infants were entred into any such covenant , against the plain letter of the text : yet he persisted to deny it without any reason ( as you may see in the dispute , if out . ) if plain scripture will not satisfie these men , why then do they call for scripture ? the words are , ye stand this day all of you before the lord your god , your captains of your tribes , your officers , elders , and all the men of israel , your little ones , your wives , and the stranger that is in thy camp , from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water , that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , and into his oath which the lord thy god maketh with thee this day , that he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself , and that he may be to thee a god , &c. he that saith infants did not pass into this covenant , i question whether he believe this to be the word of god : for how should it be spoken plainer ? answ. the thing which i denied was , that infants did visibly and solemnly enter into covenant , which mr. b. affirmed , and i gave the reason , because they did by no visible sign declare their assent to the covenant : and when mr. b. replied , that the parents did it for them , i answered , the parents act for them might bind them , but yet it is not their act , nor that which makes a visible churchmember ; and sure had i conceived his minor so meant [ that the infants did by their parents visibly and solemnly enter into covenant ] i should have granted it , and denied his major [ they who visibly and solemnly entred into covenant with god by their parents act for them , were visible churchmembers ] now this answering of mine he endeavoured then and since to represent with as much disparagement as might b● to me , though what ever imperfection there were in my answer ( which i do not deprehend to have been such as mr. b. hath made it ) it was in a great part from mr. bs. ambiguous use of words , and his captious taking advantage from my words , and not explaining his own , which made me answer somewhat perplexedly . but the matter being now in print , let 's view the dispute as i● stands in the books . i had said in my sermon , and after in my antidote , sect . . that [ thou ] v. . doth not necessa●ily comprehend the little ones ▪ to this mr. b. in his correct . pag. . replies , . that he either sets a low value on my conscience , or judgement ; which is not worth answering , . do you not know , saith he , that [ thou ] is a collective term , usually through the books of moses spoken of all the people , except any be particularly excepted ? answ. i do know it is a collective term , ye● often used with exception of infants by the matter of the speech , though not p●rticularly . and for this i need go no further then deut. . , , , . deut. . , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . and in some of these , v. . thou and thy children , v. . thine heart and the heart of thy seed , v. . thou and thy seed , deut. . . us and our children , are so expresly distinguished , that i am much confirmed that [ thou ] deut. . . doth not comprehe●d the little ones , v. . . saith he , are not little ones here named ? and yet are they excluded ? answ. t●ey are named , v. . yet not meant by [ thou ] v. . . saith he , why should moses say , here stand your children and wives , that not they but you might enter into covenant ? answ. . why should the strangers stand there , v. . and yet abraham , isaac , and jacob not their fathers ? v. . . i conceive god would have a general appearance for the more sol●mnity of the thing , but that some should act in the name of the whole people , and therefore men●ion of all , v. . yet the act of covenanting which was personal , v. . restrained onely to the representatives . . doth not mr. t. confess that the jews infants were in covenant ? why else were they circumcised , which is the seal of the covenant ? answ. . circumcision is no where called in scripture the seal of the covenant , and how far i allow it , may be seen sect . . . infants were circumcised , not because they were in covenant , those who were not in covenant were to be circumcised . . the jews infants were in the political or domestical covenant made to abraham , all of them upon condition of their obedience to the law , some of them in the covenant or promise of saving grace made to the elect , none of them in the covenant by their own personal act of covenanting or promising , which is that alone which i deny , and which makes visible churchmembers in the christian church . . saith mr. b. i desire no means to convince any man of your strange abuse of the text , but onely that he will read it . [ ye stand this day all of you , &c. and that he may be to thee a god ] he that can considerately believe mr. t. that the word [ thou ] v. . doth not necessari●y comprehend the little ones , if i knew him , i would tell him , that i will not undertake by scripture to convince him of any thing at all . and i say again in sobriety , that if the papists had as plain scripture for their religion as it differs from ours , i would not delay a week , but would turn papist , &c. answ. mr. bs. words onely express his confidence in his conceit , which in this and many more things i conceive to come from his hasty determinations , without weighing all objections to the contrary . but i desire both him and the reader to let me know what that entring into covenant is which may be termed the infants act , afore he censure my interpretation of [ thou ] as not comprehending little ones necessarily , but as noting some instead of the rest , as a strange abuse of the text ; sure it was no act of words or sign shewing any consent or assent to the covenant or oath of god : and if , as piscator conceives in his scholie , it were by passing through ( as the word in the hebrew is ) the ●arts of the divided living creatures in testimony of the covenant , i say again , surely neither little ones , nor all the rest did pass between the parts of the the beasts divided , but some in stead of the rest . i think they will not say , it was their bare presence which was the entring into covenant ; for their standing there was before it , and the entring into covenant a consequent of it . i do not accuse him , as he knows who hath done , of being a papist ; nor dare i absolve mr. b. from yeelding too much in some of his writings for papists , arminians , and socinians advantage , in s●eking to avoid antinomianism and anabaptism . but i hope both mr. b. and his reader will be more sober and wise then to go over to the papists upon this declaration of mr. b. who if he did not suggest to the people as if it were my impudence to deny it at the dispu●e , i was mistaken , and so were others , and i intreat him to pardon my mistake . but mr. b. adds . where he saith , that [ you ] v. . is distinguished from [ them that stand , &c. ] i answer : . i think not ; but from them that were absent : q. d. not with you onely , but ( both ) with him that is here ( that is you ) and him that is not here . answ. i find no interpreter who doth not render ●● v. . by the adve●sative , and the tigurine divines render it sed et but also , which sh●ws a plain distinction of [ you , v. . ] from him that standeth here with us this day before the lord our god ; and if i understand any thing in this kind , mr. bs. exposition is not good sense , to expound not with you onely , but with him that is here with us that is you . for v. ● . him that standeth here is opposed to you , v. . and you onely being an exclusive terme , must exclude the rest , and when it is said [ with us ] meaning himselfe , and [ you ] v. . it is meere non-sense to expound it thus , him that standeth with us , if us comprehend him that standet● there , as it doth according to mr. bs. exposition . besides , the different numbers of [ him that standeth here with us ] and [ you ] do shew that they are not the same . and i thinke i may say as mr. b. i desi●e no meanes to convince any man of mr. bs. strange exposition , but onely that hee will read the text. but he saith . . were it otherwise , yet it were onely from the people of other nations that stood among them . answ. . if mr. b. mean thy stranger which is in thy camp , v. . i expect some reason why [ you onely ] v. . should exclude them more then the little ones and wives ; rather me think● [ you onely ] should include those men●ioned v. . and him that standeth with us here this day should mean those v. . and the plain sense seems to be this , that though the captains , elders , officers , men of israel who were to enter into co●enant , did by themselves onely covenant , yet moses in gods stead did make that covenant and oath not onely with them , to whom his speech was directed , but also with the rest , v. ● . . if he mean the strangers not of that congregation or church of israel , surely the covenant was not made with them , as here moses saith it was with him that standeth here with us this day . mr. b. adds of me . where he saith [ some entred into covenant in behalf of the rest ] i answer : . god entred into covenant on his part immediately , or by moses the mediatour with them all , and not with some onely . answ. be it so , yet on the other part some entred into covenant in behalf of the rest , and so [ thou ] v. . comprehends not little ones , v. . for sure if in behalf of any some entred into covenant , and [ thou ] comprehend not them , them they were the little ones . . saith he , i doubt not but the parents entred their children into covenant , and not the infants themselves , which shews , that god hath given parents this interest and authority . answ. . this is a confession of what i aver , and of which mr. b. and his followers have made such exclamations against me . for if [ thou v. . ] entred themselves into covenant , and infants entred not themselves into covenant , then infants are not comprehended under [ thou , v. . ] but so it is . ergo. the consequence is plain of it self , the minor is for the first part the words of the text , unless mr. b. will say , that thou shouldest enter into covenant is not , that ●hou shouldest enter into covenant thy self , which is a gross absurdity ; and the other pa●t is mr. bs. own : and thus mr. b. hath justified me in that which he counted so strange an abuse of the text. . for my part , i doubt whether the parents entred the children into covenant , and do rather conceive that the captains , elders , officers , v. . did enter into covenant by some solemn act of passing between the parts of a beast divided , or otherwise in stead of the children , wives , and servants , v. . and not the parents for the infants , . because the distinct mention of those , v. . under the titles there used , do intimate that they were representatives of those v. . now v. persons are not expressed under the ti●le of parents , but under other relations : . because it being a national covenanting , it seems most suitable to the end of it , that it was done by national officers : . if there were any other then those persons , the solemnity could not be likely done with decency , the number being so great as could not hear moses , nor do such acts as might signifie the covenanting : . because it was so at other times , exod. . . josh. . , . which if true , this place proves not that god had given parents the interest and authority to covenant for their children : . the wives were parents as well as the husbands , but it is not probable that the wives did covenant for the children , therefore not the parents as parents , but under some other consideration . . saith mr. b. but that any other that had the use of reason should not enter their own consent is a fiction not to be admitted : and yet mr. t. in his confutation sermon , excludeth the wives from a personal covenanting , as well as the infants ; but barely on his own authority : nay , he saith , it was onely the captains and officers , though the covenant is made with the rest . answ. i have given my reasons for what i conceive , i impose them not on others , it is sufficient for present that i have vindicated my assertion so much inveighed against by mr. b. that [ thou ] v. . doth not necessarily comprehend infants . . saith mr. b. mr. t. denied in our dispute , that these infants were visible churchmembers ; for when hee had maintained that [ none were churchmembers but those that were circumcised ] and that [ churchmembership was not then without circumcision ] i told him , that the infants for . years in the wilderness were not circumcised , and yet were churchmembers , and proved it from this covenant ; yet did he resolutely deny it , that the infants were church - members : whereupon seeing he wasted time in wrangling , i was bold to say , i did verily believe that ( contrary to our first agreement ) he disputed against his own conscience , seeing he could not believe himself , that the infants then were no churchmembers , and that none but the circumcised were churchmembers : but he took it ill , that i should so charge him to go against conscience ; and yet when i told him , that women were churchmembers , though not ●ircumcised , he confessed all , and yeelded that the infants were so too . and indeed else god had no church , or almost none in the wilderness , when all but cal●b and joshua were dead of the old stock ; and all of forty years old were uncircumcised ; yet steven calls it the church in the wilderness , acts . . but i think it vain to prove that those were church-members that entred such a covenant . he that will deny this , is scarce to be disputed with . answ. i do confess there was much time wasted in the dispute , and that my answers were varied according to my several apprehensions of mr. bs. meaning , which by reason of his ambiguities and uncertain expressions i could not be assured of , nor would he be brought to explain any thing to me , but what i could force him to by distinction , which yet hee shifted off , that i might be still at a loss what to determine . first hee asserted a law of admitting infants visible churchmembers unrepealed , which i conceived was that of circumcision , and thereupon denied infants in the wilderness to have beene visible church-members , meaning solemnly admitted , in which sense i meant that churchmembership was not then without circumcision . but when hee denied , hee meant circ●mcision , i pressed him to tell what other law there was , which hee then did not , but went to prove them church-members , which i confessed , if not understood as so admitted , but as part of that people as the women were . secondly , when i found hee used not the term visible churchmembers as it is taken by protestant writers for those that professed the christian faith , i denied infants were churchmembers visible by the way which made them such in the christian church , though they were visible churchmembers according to the way of constitution of the jewish church , which was a commonwealth , of which all that were members were church-members . this is the true summe of what past between us in that time mr. b. speakes of , in which nothing was spoken against my conscience ( as hee unbrother like charged mee , ) and such altercation as was , was necessitated on my part by his averseness from explaining his meaning , which i instantly pressed him to , but still hee put by with one flirt or another at mee , that hee might drive mee to speake something , which hee might represent ( as hee still did ) in the most odious manner hee could to the auditors , which injurious way hath been that which hath confirmed his party , though thereby they are abused by him . for present i grant the infants deut. . . were then visible churchmembers , but not by that covenant . against this mr. b. in his correct . sect . . saith thus . . he saith , moses made that covenant with him that wa● not there that day , that is , their posterity not yet born ; shall it therefore be sai● , that they were visible members ? &c. ] i answer , . it is evident the covena●t spoke de praesenti to those that were : bu● de futuro onely of those that were not in being , but future : they that were not , could not bee members visible or invisible . as they had a being , so they had a membership ; that is in posse , & in futuritione , non i● esse . by vertue of this deed of gift they should be born churchmembers . if a landlord do by lease make over any land to you , and your childrens children , paying so much rent ; doth it follow that your children ( who are born ) are none of this mans tenants , because your childrens children ( who are unborn ) are not his tenants actually , but potentially ? or , if a king be set over us , and out children , and childrens children ( by compact , ) doth it follow , that our children in being are not his subjects in being because our childrens children in posse are not subjects in esse but in posse onely ? ah here is good arguing ! answ. i find moses speaking of gods covenant , but not the covenant speaking , nor is that expression good sense ; nor was the speech to any other then were there , though it was of what should be after , and that as well what should be after to them that were present , as to them that were to be after , v. . and i think it true , that they which were not could not be members visible , though if the invisible church be so from election , a● most protestant divines say , they might be members invisible . and it is true , that as they had a being so they had membership ( visible ) not in being but possibility and futuri●ion . but this is no answer to my reason but a strengthening of it . for whereas the the reason was this , that covenant doth not make actually visible churchmembers , which is made with them who are not actually visible churchmembers : but that covenant was made with them that were not actually visible churchmembers , for it was made with the unborn , who are confessed not to be actually visible churchmembers by mr. b. himself ; ergo. the major is plain from the rule in logick , the same as the same doth always the same . and for mr. bs. instances , it is true , that it follows not , the children born are not tenants or subjects actually because the unborn are not ; but it follows , the lease and compact of themselves do not make actually tenants or subjects , because if they did they would do so the unborn as well as the born ; so in this point , though the arguing be not good , the unborn are not actually visible churchmembers , therefore the born are not ; yet this ( which was my arguing ) was good , by the covenant which was made with the unborn they were not actually visible churchmembers , therefore by the same covenant of it self , without any other cause , neither were the born infants actually visible churchmembers ; and consequently mr. b. cannot from the making of this covenant prove the jewish infants actually visible churchmembers . to my saying , that an entring into covenant by parents doth not make a visible member in the christian church however ( not as mr. b prints it though ) it did in the jewish , he saith much in the compass of a few lines , all which is answered before in several sections , chiefly , , , . but he saith , . that this was a covenant of grace is all the question . to which i say , though it be a question between us , yet it is not all the question . for both in the dispute , and in all my writings , i denied that the covenant of grace doth make visible churchmembers ; and therefore mr. b. if he would have made good his argument , he should have proved that visible churchmembership and the covenant of grace are inseparably conjunct , which mr. b. failing to do , fails in proving the chief point of his argument . but let 's view what he saith , correct . pag. . you add , saith he , [ this proves not the covenant a pure gospel-covenant , not including peculiar benefits to the jewish nation . ] i answer , if by [ pure ] you mean that it is not onely a gospel covenant , but that and more , it yeeldeth as much as i need ; for if it be a gospel covenant , no matter though there be more . but if you mean , that it is not essentially a covenant of grace , i could heap up abund●nce of arguments against you ; you may find many in mr. ba●● of the covenant . i add : that covenant wherein god taketh them to be his people , and engageth himself to be their god , is a covenant of grace : ( for since the fall god entreth himself into no such covenant with any but in christ , and upon terms of grace . ) but such is this covenant made with the israelites and their little ones ; therefore this was a covenant of grace . answ. i mean by pure gospel covenant , that gospel covenant which was without mixture of domestick or political benefits proper to abrahams seed inheriting , which is set down heb. . , , . out of j●r . . . and i say , that though there is perhaps an evangelical promise or two intermixed in the enlargement of moses his discourse , yet deut. . , , . the oath or covenant there made was no● purely evangelical ▪ or essentially a gospel covenant , but a political , legal , national covenant , such as god doth not enter into now with all those to whom he vouchsafes gospel grace . and i prove it thus . . that covenant which contains promises of the land of canaan , the inheritance of it , and prosperity therein , is not essentially a gospel covenant , or a pure gospel covenant . but so doth that , deut. . , , . ergo. the major is manifest : for the gospel covenant doth no● promise those things . the minor is plain from the words [ as he hath sworn unto thy fathers abraham , isaac , and jacob. ] but that was a promise of canaan , as appears from gen. . . & . . & . . & . . & . . & . . & . , . deut. . . and many passages in moses his speech , deut. . , , , , . deut. . , , , , . . and most evidently the conclusion of it , deut. ▪ . & . . . the covenant and oath made then , was the same which was said to them before ; deut. . . but that was the covenant of the law in horeb , deut. . . now that was not essentially the covenant of grace , as is proved before , sect . . . that oath and covenant which was of being god to them upon condition of their obedience to his laws given by moses , that is not a pure gospel covenant , but a legal , rom. . . gal. . . but such is this , deut. . , . & . , , , , , . where the judicial and ●eremonial are meant as well as the moral . . that oath and cov●nant which had the legal threatnings annexed to it , was not a pure gospel covenant , or essenti●lly the covenant of grace , gal. . . bu● such was this , as appears from deut. . , , . & . , . ergo. what mr. ball hath written to prove mr. bs. position , i omit , . because mr. b. hath not set down the place . . because i conceive mr. b. hath produ●ed the chief . to the first , i answer by denying the major , and the proof of it ; and aver , that since the fall god did enter into a covenant with the jews which was not in christ upon terms of gospel grace . the minor is true , but god covenanted to be their god upon condition of their obedience to the law of moses , as the words deut. ● . . imply , that he may establish thee to day for a people to himself by keeping the laws according to the covenant they entred into . he adds . . that covenant wherein the lord promiseth to circumcise their hearts , and the hearts of their seed to love the lord their god with all their heart , and with all their soul , that they may live , was a covenant of grace ; ( for the apostle to the hebrews , ch . ● . , . so describes it : ) but this was such a covenant , as is written deut. . . therefore this was a covenant of grace . answ. besides the exceptions following , it should be proved , that the promise , deut. . . was the oath or covenant mentioned deut. . , . and not rather an interlocutory promise on a special occasion , to erect their hearts in expectation of mercy upon their return from captivity . . saith mr. b. that which st. paul makes the words of the righteousness of faith , was the covenant of grace : but this is such , as is evident by comparing rom. . , , . with deut. . , , . but to this you give two sorry answers , being resolved to say somewhat . . [ it is s●oken of the command . ] answ. . and is it not also of the promise foregoing ? . and is not this from as great a mistake as the other , to think that gods command is no part of his covenant ? that [ he will be their god ] is his promise : but is that all the covenant ? that [ they shall be his people , and so take him for their god , and resign themselves to him ] this is both commanded by him , and covenanted by them . answ. the answer was right that the speech of moses , deut. . , , . however accommodated by paul to another purpose , is meant of the word of the law , the commandments , and statu●es which were written in that very book of the law , v. . which moses delivered , and it was nigh to them that they might hear it and do it : which cannot be meant thus , who shall ascend into heaven to bring christ from above , or who shall descend into the deep , that is to bring christ again from the dead , that we may hear christ thus brought down and up , and do it , it were not good sense , nor any way congruous to the speech of moses . and to mr. bs. reply , . i say it is not spoken of the promise , for that is not a thing for us to hear and do , but for god. . though the command may be a part of the covenant in a large sense , as it includes all that pertains to a covenant , yet in strict and exact sense , a covenan● being an aggregate of promises , the command is not part of the covenant . . however it is no part of the covenant and oath which god sw●re deut. . . for what god sware was that which he would do , not what he appointed them to do , and consequently no part of the covenant of grace , for that is of what god will do for us ; our faith , though it be the condition of the thing promised , yet i● it not the covenant o● grace . . the word , deut. . . cannot be meant of the covenant of grace , sith the condition is the hearing and doing of all the law of moses , that they might keep gods commandments , and his statutes , and his judgements , ( which reach to judicial , and c●remonial precepts , as well as moral ) that thou mayest live and multiply , and the lord thy god shall bless thee in the land , whither thou goest to possess it . locus ille indubitante● de obedien●ia totius legis loquitur . david pareus castig . bellarm. tom . . degrat . & lib. arb . l. . c. . . saith mr. b. you answer [ it is frequent with the apostle to accommodate words to his purpose that have a different sense in the places whence they were taken , from that to which the apostle applieth them , as rom. . . ] answ. a man would think here you plainly mean , that it is frequent with the apostle to wrest and pervert the scripture to his own ends from its true sense ; and you can mean no better , except you mean that he alludeth to the words , making use of the meer phrase without the sense ; and indeed that is usual in common speech : and such is that , rom. . . but that he doth not barely allude to this in deut. . is left undeniable . ● . he bringeth it in , v . as gods description of the righteousness of faith , &c. having before said , moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law , &c. . he addeth the very exposition to every sentence : [ who shall ascend into heaven ] that is , saith he , to bring christ down from above ? and who shall descend into the deep ] that is to bring christ again from the dead ? . he fully expresseth it v. . but what saith it ? the word is nigh thee , &c. that is , the word of faith which we preach , that if thou confess with thy mouth , &c. is not here a full discovery , that the apostle expoundeth , and not onely alludeth to these words ? name mee one place in the new testament , that more evidently speaks in an expository way of any text in the old ? answ. as much is said by the most godly and learned protestant interpreters of this place as by me , and therefore if i be chargeable with accusing the apostle of wresting and perverting the scripture to his own ends from its true sense , they are likewise so chargeable . beza annot . ad rom. . . by this term [ the word ] moses understandeth the law which god by his voyce published , all his people bearing , so that they might pretend no ignorance , when they had the tables of it described , and so might every one recite it out of their mouth , and might have it within as it were engraven in their knowledge and mind . but what moses spake of the law , all that paul accommodates to the goppel by allusion : that at length by the gospel he may teach us to enjoy that indeed which the law promiseth , and be f●eed from that which it threatneth . diodati anno● . on rom. . . st. paul maketh use of this passage though spoken in another sense . the new annot. on rom. . . ●y the word , deut. . , moses understood the law which the lord published with his own voice , and paul applies it to the preaching of the gospel , which was the perfection of the law. on v. . this place is taken out of psal. . . and is properly meant of that knowledge of god , which all men may have by contemplation of the heavens , and the c●eatures therein ; yet it is by the apostle very fitly applied to the sound of the word preached by the apostles . ●rapp on rom. . . moses meant it of the law , but it more fitly agreeth to the gospel piscater analys . paulus alludi● ad verba mosis , deut. . . willet on rom. . qu. . some think that moses in that place , deut. . . directly speaketh of the law according to the literal sense ; and st paul by a certain allusion applieth that unto faith , which moses uttereth of the law . so theodoret , chrysostome , occumenius . likewise tostatus upon the place , paul by a certain agree●ent hath translated this place , and applied it unto faith . vatablus also saith , that paul followeth not moses sense , but some words . yet pareus inclineth to think st. paul here useth but an allusion to that place of moses , dub . . daniel heinsius , exercit. sacr . in rom . , . e rom. . patet rerum esse quod non semel alibi ●●nuimus , sed & a magnis observatum theologis , in epistolam praesertim ad hebraos , meninimus ; novi faderis scriptores verba veteris & eleganter & venust non semel aliò tran●ferre . quod tam usitatum est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ut vi● ullus fi● homeri versus cu●us verba non mutato sensu usurpentur . in his autem quod matthaeus , c. . v. . ● jerem. . . ( quod & b. hieronymus vult ) usurpavit , neque pauca sunt in psalmis quae pro instituto suo paulus maxima cum venustate usurpat . qu●d nec mirum est , cum utrobique idem spiritus , qui tanquam propria ac sua , ante dicta usurpavit . and yet none of these authors did conceive paul to have wrested and perverted the scripture to his own ends from its true sense ; nor doth my speech infer any such accusation . nor do i mean that paul alludeth to the words , making use of the meer phrase without the sense ; but that he accommodates words to his purpose , that have a different sense in the places whence they are taken , from that to which the apostle applieth them , which is no wresting of them . to the reason of mr. b. i answer . to the first , that i do not find that the apostle v. . brings it in as gods description of the righteousness of faith , but by a prosopopeia the righteousness of faith is brought in as directing the believer . to the second , it is true paul addeth the very exposition to every sentence , bu● not an exposition of the text in deut. . , , . but an exposition of the words of the righteousness of faith as they are applied thence by the apostle to his purpose . and yet plain texts which are not so accomodated i cannot ●o put off as i will. your last answer , saith mr. b. is the worst of all . you say , if the covenant did contain promises purely evangelical , yet the covenant in respect of them cannot bee meant of all and every of the israelites , that god would bee a god to them , that is , sanctifie , justifie , adopt them to bee heirs of eternal life . ] answ. . god saith you stand all here , &c. to enter into the covenant , and oath , &c. and you say , it cannot be all , whom shall we believe god or you ? answ. both , for we say in this point the same , that some in the name of all did enter into covenant , and his oath to be a god in them , and yet he not be a god to them all that entred into the covenant , but to to them onely that kept the covenant ▪ . saith hee , you foully mis-interpret the promise , to bee to them a god , as if it were such as could bee verified to none but the elect . god hath p●omised to others to bee their god , who are not elect , as is undeniable in the text . therefore in a larger sense , as i have before in due place fully explained it . answ. it is sure foul language to tell me i foully mis interpret the promis● to be to them a god , when i interpret not at all t●e promise deut. . . but onely infer from mr. ●s . interpretation of it as purely evangelical ( which i count false ) that then it in respect of promises purely evangelical should be meant onely of the elect , which i agree with him to be absurd . nor is the matter salved by telling me that god hath promsed to others to be their god who are not elect , for however hee hath not promised to be a god in respect of promises purely evangelical to be a god by sanctifying , justifying , adopting to eternal life , to any but the elect . yet mr. b. asks me . and why may not god promise justification , adoption ( and sanctification in the sense as divines , and scripture most use it , for the work following faith ) and eternal life , and all on the condition of faith , and this to more then the elect ? and hath he not done so ? but of this and of infants condition before answ. . by sanctifying i meant the sanctifying by which faith is produced , which is the same with regeneration , writing the lawes in the heart , heb. . . and is used so cor. . . & . , &c. and thus he sanctifieth onely the elect , ephes. . thes. . . and i supposed mr. b. had meant the same by circumcision of the heart , to love the lord , deut. . . and that hee included it in the promise of being a god to them , deut. . . and this sure is proper to the elect , if mr. b. say true , friendly accommod . p. ▪ cor novum is given to the elect onely . and sure if mr. b. did not mean this , he did not mean the covenant of grace , or the gospel covenant , in which this is the first promise , heb. . . . but let after-sanctification be onely meant , and justification condition of faith , yet i think the promise is made of these to none but the elect , ●ith none are believers but they . an offer may bee made to others by men , but no promise by which god is bound , and will performe it to any other . if the covenant bee on condition of faith , then it is not made to infants , for they believe not . nor is the promise made to infants on condition of parents faith , for though mr. b. dream so , yet the scripture saith not so , nor is it true . for . the promise should then be made to esau as well as to jacob in infancy , which the apostle refutes rom. , , , ▪ . if the promise were made to infants upon their parents faith , then god is engaged to sanctifie them in infancy , and if so he doth it , and if he do , either holiness by sanctification of the spirit may bee lost , or else they must all go to heaven , for all holy ones go thither , . the promise to the father is upon condition of his own faith , therefore so is the promise to the child , for there is not a different promise to the father and the child upon different conditions . but i hasten . he adds . you would sain say somewhat too to that deut. . . but like the rest , . you confess it is a promise of spiritual grace , but to the jewes after their captivitie , . ●nd upon condition of obedience , . and not performed to all their seed , but onely to the elect . ] answ. . but did god promise spiritual grace to the jews after the captivity and not before ? repl. the promise deut. . . is to the israelites to do it for them onely after their captivity , i said not after the captivity as mr. b. speaks . was not the promise , saith he , made to them that then were ? repl. it was . were not they , saith he ; captivated oft in the time of the judges , and so it might at least be made good then ? repl. i grant it . if god , saith he would do as much for them before they forsook him , and brake the covenant by rebellion , as he would do afterward when they repented , then he would circumcise their hearts before as well as after : but the former is true , therefore the later . repl. i grant it , yet this proves not the promise as it is there deut. . . to be made to them of what god would do for them afore their captivity . . saith hee , and if it bee on condition of obedience , then you confess there are conditional promises , and then it was made to more then the elect . answ. i deny the consequence . . saith hee , if it were not performed to any but the elect , no wonder , when it was a conditional promise , and the rest performed not the condition : which god will cause the elect to perform . answ. sure it was not promised to any but to whom god performs it . for though it were on a condition of theirs , yet it was such a condition as was to be wrought and was promised by him , which hee did onely to the elect . and thus mr. b. may see my vindication or my descant on this text , and the reader perhaps will wonder at the vanity and wilfulness of mr. bs. exceptions against it . sect . lxviii . neither from rom. . . nor by other reason hath mr. b. proved , ch . , . part . . of baptism , that infant churchmembership was partly natural , partly grounded on the law of grace and faith. ch. . mr. b. writes thus . my th . arg . is from rom. . almost all the chapter , wherein the apostle fully sheweth , that the promise ( upon which his priviledges were grounded ) was not made to abraham upon legal grounds , but upon the ground of faith : from whence i might draw many ar●●ments , but for brevity , i desire you to peruse the chapter ; onely from the eleventh verse : and hee received , &c. from whence i thus argue . if infants then usually were entred and engaged churchmembers by that circumcision which was a seal of the righteousness of faith , and was not given on legal grounds ; then that churchmembership of infants is not repealed : ( as beeing built on grounds of gospel , and not law , and sealed with a durab●e seal , that is , the seal of the righteousness of faith . ) but the antecedent is plain in the text . answ it is true rom. . , , , , . there is mention of gods promise to abraham , and in particular two speeches are cited v. . gen. . . i have made thee a father of many nations ( which implies a promise ) & v. . gen. . . so shal thy seed be , & it is true the privile●ges of justification by faith , of the father of believers , of heir of the world , 〈◊〉 by faith , and the promise but that his visible churchmemhership 〈◊〉 infants was by promise is not said , nor is there a word in that chapter or elsewhere , ●o prove that churcmembership of infants was built on grounds of gospel and not law , or that it was sealed , or that the seal was durable which was termed the seal of the righteousness of faith , or that the circumcising of any person besides abraham was a seal of the righteousness of faith , and therefore i deny the minor , which hee termes the antecedent , and the consequence of the major also . for if his reason were good , i might by the same medium thus argue , if that circumcision by which infants were usually then entred and engaged churchmembers was a seal of the righteousness of faith , and was not given on legal grounds then that circumcision of infants is not repealed , but the antecedent is plain in the text , ergo. what answer mr. b. gives to this argument will also answer his own , and i presume he will not hold circumcision unrepealed , which hee must if his argument be good . mr. b. addes , i urged this on mr. t. many years ago , and all his answer was , that abrahams circumcision was a seal to others that should come after , of the unrighteousness of abrahams faith but no otherwise . a strange answer , and very bold ! i hear that since he answereth , that it was onely such a seal of abrahams righteousness by faith , but not of others afterward . answ. i am sure mr. b. in this ( as he doth almost in every thing i have spoken , written or done , which he hath had occasion to mention ) doth mis-report me , my an●wer to him and others was not as he and they represent it . this is my answer , . that rom. . . no other persons circumcision but abrahams is termed the seal of the righteousness of faith ▪ . that to abraham his circumcision was a seal of that righteousness by faith , which hee had afore bee was circumcised . . that abrahams personal circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of faith to all that believe as he did , and to no other . . that the usu●l ci●cu●cision of infants , was not a seal of the righteousness of faith , or of the covenant of grace to every circumcised person . but , saith mr. b. . the text seems to speak of the nature and use of circumcision , and the end of its institution : as being ordained at first of god to seal onely a gospel righteousness of faith , and not a legal righ●eousness of works or ceremonies . answ. . if circumcision were at first ordained of god to seal a gospel righteousness of faith , then it did not seal visible churchmembership of infants ( for that is not a gospel righteousness of faith , sith it may bee without gospel righ●eousness or faith , and these may bee without it ) as mr. b. saith in this chapter . . the nature , use and end of circumcision in others , is not at all expressed rom. . ●● . but onely of abrahams . . the use and end of circumcision was at first to signifie that covenant god entered into with abraham , gen. . after to binde the circumcised to observe the law of moses , as the apostle conceived it gal. . . . saith he , doth god institute a standing ordinance to endure till christ , to have one end for him to whom it was first given 〈◊〉 another to all others ? is not the nature , end , and use of sacram●●ts or holy engaging signs and seals , the same to all ? though the fruit be not alway the same . these are poor shifts against a manifest truth , which deserve not answer . answ. . doth not mr. b. of baptism p. . ch . . himself answer , that baptism , which he terms a sacrament or holy engaging signe and seal , hath more ends and uses then one , and that the infant is capable of some , though not of others : yea though he make the end to be in the definition of sacraments that it is of their nature to be signs , and so no sacraments but what do signifie ; yet hee will have baptism to bee a sacrament to an infant to whom it never is any signe or signifies any thing , for the baptised infant either never saw it , or never saw it as a signe of the engagem●nt mr. b. speaks of , and so it is never a signe to the baptised , the baptism leaving no visible impression on the body as circumcision did , to signifie to the infant when hee comes to age . whence i infer , . that according to mr. bs. own doctrine , the sacrament of baptism hath one end to those to whom it was first given to wit , to signifie their owning of christ as their lord , and another end to almost all others , to wit , infants , to seal them gods promise without their personal owning of christ. . that according to him , the nature , end , and use of sacraments , or holy engaging signs and seals is not the same to all ; for baptism is no holy engaging sign to an infant , who doth neither signifie by it , nor hath any thing signified to it by it , no nor is naturally capable of it , and consequently it is no sacrament to it , sith it is not either actually or potentially a sign to the infant , no not when grown up of any thing signified by it . . doth not mr. b. acknowledge , that abrahams circumcision did seal the righteousness of saith which he had being yet uncircumcised ? sure he will not deny this , which the apostle expresly teacheth . but sure it had not that end in all others , therefore he must acknowledge one end of circumcision for abraham which to all others it had not . about the nature , end , and use of sacraments , i have expressed in part my mind before , sect . nor either there or here do i use any shifts against a manifest truth , but mr. b. ha●h levied a company of poor feeble arguments , which but for the shallowness or prejudice of paedobaptists , deserved not an answer . ch. . he saith thus . my th . arg . is this : if the law of infants churchmembership were no part of the ceremonial or meerly judicial law , nor yet of the law of works , then it is not repealed . but it was no part of the ceremonial law , nor meerly judicial , nor part of the law of works ( as such . ) therefore it is not repealed . the consequence is evident , seeing no other laws are repealed . the antecedent i prove in its parts . . none will say it was part of the law of works ; for that knows no mercy to those who have once offended : but churchmembership was a mercy . answ. . mr. b. should have first proved any such law at all ( which he hath not proved yet ) distinct from the law of circumcision ; and this is my answer to this argument , that there is no such law at all , and this is enough . yet i add , . if his pre●ended law of infants visible churchmembership be no part of the law of works , then it is not of the law of nature , which before and after he asserts ; for the law and covenant of nature , is the law and covenant of works , which i think mr. b. wil not deny , surely it is not of grace in christ ; ergo. that is not of grace in christ which was afore the fall ; but such is the law of nature , ergo. . that the law of works knows no mercy to those who have once offended , is a dictate of divines , which needs proof . that the law at mount sinai was a law of works , is proved before , sect . . but that yeelded some mercy , levit. . , , , , . numb . . , , , . ergo. . how far , and in what manner visible churchmembership of infants was a mercy , and how it is otherwise now , is shewed before , sect . , . . saith mr. b. if it were part of the ceremonial law , then . let them shew what it was a type of , and what is the antitype that hath succeeded it , and prove it to be so , if they can . answ. . i do not take every thing typical to have been ceremonial ; nor every ceremonial thing to be typical : or if it be so , yet i am sure , of every thing ceremonial which was typical , mr. b. cannot shew what was the antitype in particular , at least he cannot prove it . when mr. b. hath shewed and proved what was the antitype to all the dishes , bowls , snuffers , and other utensils about the tabernacle , and of every thing appointed concerning them , their colour , fashion , mettal , &c. and of every rite prescribed israel by moses , there may be some equity in mr. bs. task . but till then it is enough to tell him , that to it with other things typified , christ , col. . . succeeded . the churchmembership by birth hath had churchmembership by faith to succeed it , as is before proved from gal . and if that be not enough , let mr. b. answer , and not slight what mr. samuel fisher writes in his baby baptism meer babism , about the ceremonial holiness of the jews infants , pag. . , , , , &c. . saith he , if the very materials of the church were a ceremony , then the church it self should be but a ceremony . and so the church in abraham● family should be more vile then the church in the family of noah , melchizedech , sem , job , lot , &c. which were more then ceremonies . answ. the levitical priesthood was ceremonial , and yet not the materials , that is the men , a ceremony ; so churchmembership might be a ceremony , yet not the churchmembers . but i do not term either the one or the other a ce●emony , it is sufficient that it was a meer positive thing alterable and that it was altered . . saith he , and that it was no part of the meerly judicial law , appears thus . . as was last said , then also the church in abrahams family should be more vile then the aforesaid ▪ for their churchmembership was not a piece of meer policy , as we call the judicials . answ. i● it we●e by any law that infants were churchmembers , it is more likely to be 〈◊〉 judicial law then any other of the ●hree sorts of the mosaical laws , which divines do so distinguish . and to the argument i say , . by making infants churchmembership to be by a mixt or meer judicial law in abrahams family , it is not made a piece of meer civil policy not eccl●siastical , for the jew● commonwealth was a holy policy , and the members of the state were members of the church and consequently , it is rather made more excellent by referring it to the meer judicial laws , as the constitution of the sanhed●in and other things are , and the admitting of the proselytes and their children was by the elders of the jews . . how to say concerning the families of noah , &c. we cannot resolve , sith we find little or nothing of them , no mention of noahs infants , or melchizedecs , sems , jobs , or lots except amm●n and moab , nothing said of their churchmembership , or of the government of the families , what it was , or by what law . . saith he , it cannot be shewn that it hath any thing of the nature of a meer judicial law in it ( except we may call the moral laws or gospel promises judicial , upon which meer judicials are built : ) why is it not as much of the judicial law to have women churchmembers as children ? yet who dare say that this is meerly judicial ? answ. it can be shewn , that if there be such a law , it is a meer judicial law , because it belonged to the ordering of the commonwealth or policy of israel , as it is termed , ephes. . . and the entring of proselytes was to be done by the eldership of the people , and not by the priests . and this we da●e say of the womens visible churchmembership as well as the infants , and that neither of them were by a moral law o● gospel promise as mr. b. fancies . . sai●h he , it is of the very law of nature to have infants to be part of a kingdome , and the kings subjects . and mr. t. hath told me his judgement ; that the jews church and commonwealth was all one : therefore according to mr. t. his grounds , it must needs be requisite even naturally that infants should then be churchmembers . i thinke this is past denial . answ. kingdomes themselves are not of the law of nature , no nor of the law of nations , if they were , all other government then of kings were against these laws , much less can it be o● the law of nature to have infants to be part of a kingdome , and the kings subjects . according to my judgment , the jews church and commonwealth were not all one naturally , but by institution ; and therefore , according to my grounds , it is not requisite even naturally that infants should then be churchmembers . so that i find none o● these things past denial . . saith he , the promise that took them in , and the seal were both grounded on the righteousness of ●aith , as is proved before ; therefore not a meer judicial . answ. neither were they taken in by a promise , nor was the promise or the seal grounded , that is , made or given by reason of the righteousness of faith , to or in those to whom they were made or given . nor is any such thing before proved by mr. b. . saith he , in●ants were churchmembers long before the time of moses , when the jews were formed into a commonwealth , and the ●udicial laws given them . and as the apostle argues , the law which was many hundred years after , could not make void the promise , and so it could not be that this was part of the meerly judicial law . answ. the jews were formed into a commonmealth , and judicial laws given , as may appear by the appointment of onan and sh●lah to take their brothers wife , gen. . and the sentence of judah concerning tamar , v. . before moses time , though then both were compleated . though the law makes not void the promise , yet the law of infants visible churchmembership , if there were any such , might be meerly judicial . . saith he , that it is neither a meer judicial , nor proper to the jews ▪ appeareth thus . that which was proper to the jews , was given to them onely ; that is , onely to isaac and his seed , on whom the jewish priviledges were intailed . but many hundreds were circumcised as churchmembers ( among them many infants ) in abrahams family , before ever isaac was born ; and all the proselytes with their infants afterward that would come in . the children of keturah and their children , and the children of ishmael , &c. were once all churchmembers ; let any shew when they were unchurched , except when they unchurched themselves by their wickedness ; or let any shew that the same sons of keturah , who must circumcise their sons as churchmembers while they were in abrahams family , must leave them uncircumcised and unchurched when they were removed from that family . did god change laws , and revoke such mercies and priviledges to the seed of abraham , meerly because of their removing from his house , and change of place ? who dare believe such fancies , without one word of scripture ? remember therefore , that it is here plainly proved , that infants churchmembership was not proper to the jews . answ. that which wa● proper to the jews was not proper to isaac onely and his seed , but common to abraham , isaac , and jacobs family , or the people that either by birth or proselytism were hebrews : when ishmael was cast out , and the sons of keturah sent away from isaac , gen. . . they were not churchmembers , nor their children , no more then the circumcised children of the jews by strange wives when they were separated from the holy seed , ezra . & nehem . which the lord did for that reason which he judged fit , however it seem to us . nor is this conceit a fancy , but plain from those scriptures named and others , which still reckon the ishmaeli●es , edomites , ketureans , and posterity of jews by prohibited women and separated from the congregation of israel , as a profane people , and so not churchmembers . nor do i think they were bound to circumcise their infants as churchmembers , or did it when separated from the hebrew people . so that mr. b. hath not yet proved , that infants churchmembership was not proper to the jews , but that it is partly natural , and partly grounded on the law of grace and faith , as he speaks . sect . lxix . mr. b. ch . . by his th . arg . from infants being once members in the universal visible church , hath not proved their visible churchmembership unreapealed . ch. . my th . arg saith he , is this : if all infants who were members of any particular church , were also members of the universal visible church ( which was never taken down ; ) then certainly their churchmembership is not repealed : but all infants , that were members of any particular church , were also members of the universal visible church ; therefore their churchmembership is not repealed . the consequence is beyond dispute , because the universal church never ceaseth here . and in my judgement , the whole argument is so clear , that were there no more it were sufficient . answ. the very conclusion , is so palpably false , that no man that understands it but will wonder that mr. b. should shew himself so besotted , as to prove so in●ustriously a thing contrary to sense , that the visible churchmembership of no infants who were members of any particular church is repealed , that is , ceaseth . for who knows not that isaac , jacob , moses , david , with million● more are dead , and are now no members in any visible church ? if it be said , that mr. b. means the species of infants , i reply , then he speaks non-sense and false . for the species is but one , and therefore to ●erm the species which is but one [ all infants ] in the plural number is non-sense and false for the species was never a member of any particular church , for members are individuals , nor is the universal visible church totum universale , which may bee thus divided into adult and infants as into two sorts of churches , but totum integrale , an integral whole consisting of parts existing , and when the parts ceased to exist then they were not members visible , and the whole church visible must needs cease when all the members existent are deceased . it is false also that the species an be termed visible : for that is visible which may be discerned by sense , but sense discerneth not species , but individuals . if it be said that mr. b. means that the universal visible church is as a fluent body , as a river whi●h con●inues the same from a succession of ether water in the same channel , neither will this ●ee for his purpose . for . in that sense the infants that were members cease , and other infants succeed ; . it is manifest that the visible church is not now among those people , to wit the jews , w●o had heretofore infants visible churchmembers , they are broken off from being gods visible church , and so the succession of churchmembers in t●at people ceaseth , and it is that which is denied t●at in the other channel , to wit the visible christian church , infants do or ought to be taken to succeed in the place of the deceased jewish infants , and if the sense be thus , the whole argument is this ; if infants visible churchmembership be and ●ught to be taken to be in the christian visible church as in the jewish , then it is not repealed . but infants visible churchmembership is and ought to be taken to be in the christian visible church as in the jewish , ergo . of which i should deny the minor . but this hath no likelihood to be mr. bs. meaning , whose words import plainly that which i count non-sense and false . and therefore i answer to his argument , if the parenthesis ( which was never taken down ) be a part of the antecedent in the major , and the sense be this [ and the universal visible church existent in the age wherein infants were members of a particular church was never taken down or ceased not ] and this be supplied in the minor , i d●ny the minor , if it be not supplied i deny the syllogism to be good , as not having the whole medium in the minor which was in the major , if it be understood in another sense ( which i count non-sense ) that the species of infants in the jewish particular church were members of the universal visible church christian , the minor is to bee proved . as for what mr. b. saith , the universal church never ceaseth here , if it be meant of the universal visible church definite of that age ( in which alone infants visible members of a particular church are members ) it is false , if of an universal church visible indefinite , so as that the sense be , some or other universal church visible never ceaseth , or an universal visible church in some age or other ceaseth not infant members in the particular church are not members in such an universal , but in the definite of one age , and the minor of mr. bs. argument in that sense is false ; or if the sense bee ( as it seemeth by what followes ) that the nature of the universal visible church ceaseth not ●heere , i deny the consequence of the major in mr. bs. syllogism ; and say , that it is non-sense to term the nature of the universal visible church the universal visible church , as it is to term humanity or manhood a man , or peter humanity or the humane nature . all know that understand the metaphysicks , that whatever the difference bee whether formal or modal or some other , yet the one is not rightly predicated or said of the other : no man saith the essence of a thing ( which is all one with the nature ) is the thing , but that by which it is . in like manner it is non-sense to say infants were members of the nature of the universal church visible . for membership hath relation to an integral whole not to an essential , no man makes infants a part of the definition of the universal visible church , but of the compleatness of it . but let 's view mr. bs. proof . . saith he , that there is a universal visible church , mr. rutherford and others have largely proved : they of new england indeed deny a unive●sal visible governing or political church ; but not this that i speak of ( as you may see in mr. shepheard and mr. allens answer to mr. ball ) but lest any should deny it , i wi●l bring one proof or rather many in one , cor. , . we are all baptised by one spiri● into one body , whether jews or gentiles . here you see it is one and the same body that all are baptised into : now that this is the visible church i prove thus . . that one body that hath distinct visible members with variety of gifts is the visible body : but this is such . . that one body which is visible in suffering and rejoycing is the visible body . but this is such v. , . . that body which is capable of schism , and must be admonished not to admit of it , is the visible body ; but this is such v. . . that body which had the visible seals of baptism and the lords supper was the visible body ; but this was such v. . . that one body which had visible universal officers was the visible universal church or body ; but this was such : therefore , &c. answ. i list not to interpose my judgement in the controversies between mr. ball and mr. rutherford , and mr. hudson on the one side , and mr. allen , mr. shepheard , and mr. hooker on the other side , which rest much on the meaning of the term [ church ] in such passages as these cor. , . & . . acts . ● . gal. . , &c. and some logick notions of an universal and integral whole , of a similar and dissimilar whole , the distinction of a church entitive and organical , and the like . nevertheless because it concerns the present point that i should say somewhat in this thing , i shall thus far express my conceits . . i think by the word church in none of the places alledged by mr. hudson vindic . ch . . a particular fixed congregation organized is meant except the last , . joh. . where i conceive the casting out could be onely out of that particular church where diotrephes did lord it , and where alone he did and could forbid those that would receive the brethren , though perhaps the effect might extend further . nor do i think on the other side , that in any one of them by [ the church ] is meant the universal visible organical political church collectively taken , which mr. hudson asserts not acts. . . gal. . ● . for saul did not make havock , persecuted or destroy the whole church so taken , nor only the particular church of jerusalem , but the word [ church ] there is taken without quantity , an● so neither notes the universal nor particular , all nor some , but indefinitely in genere confuso , the disciples of christ , or any of that way , acts . . them that believed on christ , acts . . them that called on his name , acts . . the saints , acts . . wheresoever hee could reach them . and in the same sense it is taken acts . . cor. . . tim. . . and i think the sense is the same eph. . . whether [ by the church ] be meant of what was done to or on the church , that is the believers called out of the gentiles , to whom hee gave his spirit manifestly as on cornelius , or by the teachers in the church , especially of the wonderful mysteries which were revealed in the exercise of gifts then given . matth . . it is true , is meant the visible church , but not the universal organical collectively taken , nor any particular congregation organized , but the visible in respect of the part which is invisible , against which the gates of the grave or death shall not prevail , to keep them in , but they shall be raised up again to everlasting life at the last day . nor is it said that the keyes should bee given to the church but to peter , the use of which was to bee in the calling of the church effectually . the other text cor. . . cannot be meant of the church visible universal organical collective , nor of a particular congregation , not this latter for reasons given by mr. hudson , nor the former , for the apostles , prophets , teachers , are distinct from the church there taken : but they are not so from the church universal visible organical collective , ergo. therefore i conceive apostles , &c. are not said to be set in the church collectively taken as a totum integrale organicum , but in the church distributively taken , that is , in the several churches where they were imployed , as peter among those of the circumcision , paul among the gentiles . to which the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hath set , gives me occasion to encline , which i conceive to b●e the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gave , eph. . . and it notes not a setting , by way of law constituting such to be in the church , but a setting or disposing by way of providence in several churches for their profit , as he saw good . . i conceive the term catholike or universal church ( between which mr. bl. coven sealed pag. . saith divines distinguish ) is sometimes taken in contradistinction to the jewish national church , sometimes as comprehending both the believers before and since the incarnation of christ , and in both senses i conceive it notes the invisible church , or the church of the first born which are written in heaven , heb. . . who are fellow heirs of the same body and partakers together of the promise of christ through the gospel , ephes . . ▪ and this is the catholike church in the apostles creed , which we believe though we see it not . . i acknowledge a catholike visible church both before and after christs incarnation entitive , though i think not organical since christs ascension and the apostles decease , and that this catholike visible church consists of all the visible church-members and churches particular visible in all the world and that this is visible onely in the several parts , which exist , and because these parts are in flux as a city , army , commonwealth , there are sometimes more sometimes fewer , sometimes the same persons may be visible church-members and sometimes not , some parts may be formed after one manner some after another , the same sort of persons may be ( as infants ) in a church v●sible of one constitution and not in another , he may bee a member ( as cornelius ) in one church that is not in another . so that the church universal visible which i acknowledge is not uniform , and is onely as in numbring a total sum of many particulars cast up . . i conceive the text mr. b. alledgeth serveth not his purpose . for though i think it is meant of the church visible , yet not in respect of all the parts of the church visible , but those that are so visible as that they are also of the invisible church , to wit , true believers . . because it is said that th●y are by one spirit baptised into one body , and made to drink into one spirit , now this must be understood of that unity of spirit which unites to christ , not barely in respect of common gifts to the sanctified and unsanctified . but this cannot bee said of all the vi●ble members of the visible church , therefore it is not meant of them . . because the many members ▪ termed one body are termed christ , v. . which can bee meant of christ mystical onely , for those that are onely christ by profession are not termed christ , but those who are spiritually uni●ed to him ▪ now those are one spirit , cor. . . new creatures , cor. . . to whom there is no condemnation , rom. . . of his flesh and of his bones , ephes. . , , . and to his reasons i answer , that though they prove the body meant cor . . was visible , yet they prove not that all parts of the visible church are comprehended in that body , but onely such as were also of the invisible . . saith mr. b. that the jews infants were members of this universal visible church , i prove thus : there is but one visible universal church or body : therefore they must needs be of this one , or be unchurched . see gal. . . ephes. , cor. ● . . answ. the unity there ascribed is not visible but invisible , to wit , by the union of the same spirit , and the body though visible in respect of some parts , yet is not said to bee one in resp●ct of any but those who are invisibly also joyned to that body , or for their sake , as mr. b. pag. if christ gal. . . bee not meant of christ personal , it is certain it is meant of no more then christ mystical , or the church invisible , and so cor. . . the like is to be said . and that it is so ephes. . ● . appears from the words where these are joyned one body and one spirit . therefore i deny that those texts are meant of the universal visible church as visible , but onely of that part of the universal visible church of that time which was also of the invisible , which is one by unity of the same spirit . as for the universal visible church it cannot bee said to bee one in several ages numerically , for it is but the total of all the members then existent ( for if they bee not existent among the living they are not visible ) and they are sometimes the same , sometimes others ( hee that is now of the visible church may cease by death or apostasie to be so to morrow ) sometimes more sometime fewer , but they are one in respect of profession of the same faith , or in some other visible appearance to be of gods people . now the infants of the jews might be members of the visible church universal of a former age , but were not of the universal visible church of that age , which was not one numerically with the universal visible church of a former age , nor meant to be so , cor. . . . saith he , every one that is a mamber of the particular , must needs be a member of the universal ; else one might be a part of the part , and yet not a part of the whole . answ. it is true of the universal made up of those parts , but he may be a member of the particular church of uncircumcised , as cornelius , who is not a member of the particular church of the circumcised ; and he may be a member of the universal visible of one time , who is not a member of the universal visible of another time . a jew before the offer of christ might be a member of the jewish church national , as the pharisees , to whom john baptist , ch●ist , and his apostles preached ; yet were not members of the universal church visible when they rejected the offer of christ. infants were members of the visible universal jewish church , who were not so of the universal visible christian in another ●ge . mr. bs mistake is i conceive in this , that he thinks the universal visible church is one and the same in every age , which is a gross mistake . but he saith , this is all beyond dispute ; and mr. t. denied none of it , when i urged it on him , he confesseth , . there is a universal church visible . . that the jews church was not the whole universal . . that every one that is a member of a particular church , is also a member of the universal . . and that the jews infants were members of the universal . . and this universal church is not dissolved . answ. i have made some search whether ever i confessed that this universal church visible of which the jews infants were members is not dissolved , and do not remember or find that ever i did so ; if i sholud , i do revoke it , as being most false : and i rather think ( if i did yeeld any thing that seemed like it ) that what i confessed was , that the nature or essentials of the church are not dissolved , in stead of which ( as i ghess by what follows ) mr. b. put this as my confession . he adds . what then remains to be denied ? why this is all that he saith to the whole [ that their membership in the vniversal church was onely by reason of their membership in the particular ; and therefore ceased with it . ] and how is this proved ? why mr. t. saith it is so , and that is the best proof , and all that i could get . answ. it was enough when i was a respondent that i said so , it had been mr. bs. part to have disproved it : but i did then think , and do still think it so plain , that it needed not proof ; and ( as very a wrangler as mr. b. is ) i think mr. b. grants as much when he saith , that every one that is a member of a part is a member of the whole , and that the individual church that then was , was broken off for unbelief ; and i know no visible church but an individual . methinks it is all one as if i had said , the finger is onely a member of the whole body in that it is a part of the hand , and when the hand ceaseth to be a part of the body , the finger ceaseth to be a member . but yet m. b. will try whether hee can disprove this any better . . saith he , i think i have sufficiently proved , that even the nature of the jews church was not repealed , but onely the accidental ceremonies ; and the individual church that then was , is broken off for unbelief ; but the olive still remained . answ. the visible church jewish could be no other then the individual church jewish , which if broken off , though the nature of the jews church was not repealed , and the olive still remained , yet the infant churchmembership which came onely in with the jewish national church , might and did cease . . saith he . if the jews church were repealed , yet he that will affirm that the whole species of infants are cast out of the universal visible church , must prove it well : for if i find that they were once in it , i need no more proof that they remain in , till some one shew me where it is revoked , which is not yet done by any that i know of . answ. the repealing of the nature of the jews church , and of the jews church ( which intimate that the nature of the jews church and the jews church were a law capable of repeal ) is a piece of baxterian non-sense , which i use not . that the jewish church national is broken off , and that churchmembership by birth is altered into churchmembership by faith , is so fully proved before , sect . , , . besides what elsewhere is said by me , that i count it superfluous to add any more . if it satisfie not mr. b. it 's to be ascribed to his pertinacy in his opinion , which to be his proper temper i was told long ago , and much experience of him by my self and others find to be true . . saith he , the universal church is more excellent far then any particular , and so our standing in the universal church is a far higher priviledge then our standing or membership in any particular : therefore it will not follow , that infants lose the greater , because they lose the lesser ; and that they are cast out of the universal , because they are cast out of the particular . answ. the universal may be more excellent then any particular extensively , because the universal comprehend the most excellent part , and the rest also ; but not intensively , sith all the excellency may be from one part . christ the head is not the universal body , and yet the whole body is not more excellent intensively then christ , that is , hath not more perfection then christ ; for all the excellency in all the members is christs , and from christ. yet the standing in the universal is not a higher priviledge then in the particular church ; yea , if there be a standing in the universal besides the standing in the particular , yet the standing in the particular is a higher priviledge . else why do ministers exhort men to joyn with some particular church , and to submit to their pastors ? is it not for their advantage ? sure mr. b. who condemns seekers , and those that are separ●tists from a particular church , and those that live out of communion with any particular church as christians at large , and are so members of the universal church , should not think they have a higher priviledge then members of a particular church . if he do , he doth wrong them in condemning them , and disswading them from that state which is a higher priviledge . much less is it true concerning infants , who are not visible churchmembers , but as they stand in the particular church . for they are not by their own profession visible churchmembers , but meerly in that they are part of that nation which god takes for his people , as god did the hebrew nation , and no other before nor since . this is clear , if we suppose the whole hebrew nation destroyed except one male infant , this male infant would be no visible churchmember , there being nothing by which he is discernable to sense to be more one of gods people then another infant , though there we●e many churches of gentiles ●n other places : whereas on the other side , if a christian by profession were in no particular church , but stood alone in an island of unbelievers , remote from any particular churches , i presume mr. b. would say he were a visible member of the universal , though of no particular . whence it follows , that if infants lose their standing in the particular church jewish , they lose their standing in the universal . . saith he , persons are first ( in order of nature , or time , or both , ) members of the universal church , before they are members of any particular ▪ so was noah , lo● , abraham , and all men before christ , and so are all since christ. the eunuch in acts . was baptized into the universal visible church , and not into any particular . it is so with all others : it is the general use and nature of baptism ; they are baptized into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , and so into the catholick church ; but not into any particular church : if any such thing be , it is secondary , and accidental and additional , and no proper end of baptism . so that it being first in order , that we are entred into the visible universal church , it is likely to be of more durable continuance . answ. avoiding unnecessary disceptations with mr. b. about the general use and nature of baptism , and about the priority in order , or time , or both , according to which persons are members of the universal visible church afore they are of the particular , i do agree , that persons who were visible churchmembers by their sensible profession of the true god , were members of the universal afore they were of the particular : but deny this concerning infants , for the reason before given . . saith he , it is no good consequence that is fetcht from the removal of a particular church , or of the jews particular church , to breaking off from the universal ; therefore this will not prove infants are broke off . if a jew had been forced into a strange countrey , yet there , both he and his children had been churchmembers of the universal church . when all the jews were scattered abroad in captivity , so that they had neither temple , nor altar , nor priest , but perhaps one live in one town , and another in another , as they do at this day ; you could not say , that these were of the visible particular church of the jews , though you might say still that they were abrahams seed , and they and their children were members of the visible universal church . answ. the consequence is good as i frame it , their churchmembership visible ceaseth , who were visible churchmembers onely in that they were part of that visible church which now ceaseth ; but so it was concerning infants visible churchmembership , ergo , it ceaseth : which is different from that which mr. b. imposeth on me . to his suppositions i say , that they were in that case members of the visible particular church of the jews , which was a particular church , and so accounted even in their captivity , though not in a flourishing estate as in their own countrey . and for the instance of keturahs children when they left the church of abrahams family , if their infants were visible church-members ( which i conceive they were not ) then it was because they joyned themselves as proselytes to the hebrew people , which i think is not true , and therefore conceive if any of keturahs children who left the church of abrahams family , professed the god of abraham , they were members of the universal , but not their infants . and ●or what mr. b. adds , ●f a jew then , or a christian now , were cast upon the coasts of america , where he should never be a member of a particular church more , yet he should be a member of the universal still ; i grant it , while they profess god in christ. and for what he adds , neither joseph , mary , nor jesus in his infancy were unchurched , because they lived in aegypt ( though i confess it is disputable whether christ were ever a churchmember property ; but i pass by that ) i grant it , for they remained members of the jewish church then when they were in aegypt ▪ as i presume mr. b. counts those of his church of kederminster members still , who may by imprisonment , traffique , service of the state in war , sickness , or otherwayes be absent thence in england , or forreigne parts against their will. . saith he , again , to lose their standing in the visible universal church , is to lose their place in the visible body ( cor. . . ) and in the house o● the living god , tim. . . the pillar and ground of truth : but to be removed from one particular church , or from every particular church , is no casting out of christs body , or gods house : therefore it will not follow upon the removal from a particular church , that they are removed from the universal ; especially when we are not speaking of individual infants , but of the whole species . so that i think this argument is unanswerable : infants were members of the universal visible church ( as mr. t. confesseth ) this is the church that we are now baptized into ; and this church constitution is not altered or taken down : therefore infants membership of this church is not taken down , what ever it be of the jews particular church . answ. the consequence is good as i framed it in the paragraph next before , yea though mr. bs. two propositions here be granted : nor can mr. b. overthrow it , ●●ll he prove that the jews infants had a standing in the universal visible church , severed from their standing in the jewish particular , for which he hath yet brought no proof . his saying that he spake of the whole species , not of individual infants , makes his speeches to appear ridiculous non-sense . for the whole species hath no standing in the visible church universal or particular , nor can be said to be admitted in , or cast out , or removed from one or every particular church . these things cannot be said of a species , but of individuals , sith a species is conceived abstractively from all individuificating circumstances of time , place , &c. which must be conceived in visible churchmembership and removal or casting out . and that we are baptised now into that universal visible church in which infants were members , is utterly false , and that the church constitution is altered in that the jewish particular church ceaseth i● proved before , therefore there is not●ing in this argument unanswerable . as for what mr. b. adds to this chapter p. . i finde not that ●e brings any more strength in it which needs further answer . he refers me to mr. hudsons vindic . but tels me not what part he would have me answer , perhaps there is not any thing in the book that opposeth mee besides what is already answered , and i am not yet so obsequious to mr. b. as to go ov●r a whole book to finde an adversary to fight with ; if mr. b. kn●w any strength in it to oppose me with , he should have himself produced it or referred me to the particular place where i might finde it . as for the texts which hee cites out of mr. hudson , an answer is fu●ly made to what hee brings them for in the d . pa●t of this rev●ew , ●ect . in which mr. b. and others may see how shamefully they abuse scripture , to prove a church national comprehending infants like the jewish in the time of the go●pel . and i add , that if mr. b. weigh mr. hudsons words in his vindic . ch . sect . . p. , . i acknowledge the jews to be a national church . but my description of the church catholike was of the church as it is now , s●nce the partitition wall is broken down , f●r then it became catholike . i conceive there were believers of the sons of keturah that d●d not partake of all the priviledges of the jewish church except they became proselytes . it is the evangelical catholike church which my question is about ; into which the jewes themselves being converted were admitted by a new initial seal , viz. baptism , and did not stand in it by their former national membership , but received a catholike membership by baptism , i conceive that a man of any nation , converted to be a visible believer is a member of the church catholike en●itive , and hereby hath right to all church priviledges that belong to the whole church , gods method us●d in the national church of the jews , b●ing in populo israelitico , m●st ●eeds differ from the method in populo catholico ; hee will finde that learned man speaking as much for my purpose as his own . they tha● boldly affirm that christs covenant , his sati●faction , his church , his sealing , extend to any more then elect , joyn with the arminians against the scripture and the most approved protestants , and the contrary contains no desperate expressions , as mr. b b●ing m●slea● speaks ▪ mr. hudsons words pag. . are not right . if any hold that the believing jews children are still churchmembers , and yet deny that the gentiles children are so hee may hold it still notwithstanding the assault made by mr. b. here . for by the taking down the partition wall , ephes. . . and the removing the enmity v. . jews and gentiles are not made one visible church after the jewish frame , but one by faith , and by it the gentiles are cl●ansed , a●●s . . not a whole nation parents and children as the jewish church , but believers repenting , acts . , . one body , one lord , one faith , one baptism , &c. eph. . . proves not the gentile and jewish church visible to be the same , but the invisible of both . gal. . . hath not a word tending to prove that there is the same reason of jews and gentiles infant visible churchmembership , but of the equal interest in christ of gentiles who are new c●eatures , as of the jews . it is no part of pauls epistles , and therefore not much of their substance to prove the taking in of the gentiles , and graffing them into the olive which the jews were of , if by it were meant the visible church jewish , but it is most palpably false . the discipling nations , the kingdoms of the world becomming christs , rev. . . prove not infant● discipleship , or churchmembership . all hitherto brought by mr. b. hath yeilded no sufficient proof , let 's view the rest . sect . lxx . mr. bs. th , and th . arg from the promise of mercy , exod. . . and of blessing , psal. . . are answered . ch. . saith mr. b. the th . arg . then is this : exod. . , . from hence i argue thus : if god have made over this mercy ( of churchmembership ) in the moral law , to the children of all that love and obey him , then it is not proper to the jews children , nor is it ceased : but god hath made over this mercy in his moral law to the children of all that love and obey him ; therefore it is not proper to the jews children , nor is it ceased . nothing but the antecedent here needeth proof . every man i think among us will confess , that the moral law was not proper to the jews , and that it is not ceased . even the most of the antinomians confess the ten commandments are in force as the law of christ , though not as the law of moses . however , if they be against the preceptive part of the law , yet sure they will not bee against the promissary part . though there be some clauses that were suted to the jews peculiarly , yet i never yet met with man that would say this was so . if the ten commandments be not currant proof , there is no disputing with them out of scripture . answ. there is need of proof of more then the antecedent to make this argument good . for . the conclusion is not that which mr. b. should prove , churchmembership and visible churchmembership , children and infant children being not all one . god may shew the mercy of churchmembership to infants , and yet not make over to them visible churchmembership , and he may make over visible churchmembership to the children of them that love him , and yet not to them in infancy . so that the conclusion may bee granted as it stands , without any impeachment to my tenet . but if it be meant of visible churchmembership of infant children , the minor is to be denied . and to the proof , . i except that this promise was proper to the jews made to back the legal covenant , and though it be a promise annexed to the observing a moral precept , yet as in the fifth commandment termed the first commandment with promise , ephes. . . so in this , the promise hath special reference to their prosperous and safe estate in canaan , in which they were continued while they kept themselves from idolatry , and on the other side expelled , captivated , enslaved , when they served idols , unto the third and fourth generation , upon which considering the time of making this promise , the usual tenour of promises in the books of moses , as deut. . , . to the same purpose , the place where this promise is put , the event which doth best expound it , and that no where under the gospel promises are made to believers children , but onely to believers themselves of evangelical mercy , yea the apostle concludes that notwithstanding the promise to abraham and his seed gen. . . and to israel , yet god hath mercy on whom hee will have mercy , and whom he will hee hardens , rom. . . i do determine ( without fear of mr. bs. censure ) that this promise was suited to the jews peculiarly . . i hence infer that if this mercy be meant of churchmembership , yet it might bee , yea was proper to the jews children . . the mercy here cannot be proved to be visible churchmembership . . that it is onely to those mens children who love him and keep his commandments , which is an invisible thing , and so whose infants are visible churchmembers by this promise cannot bee known . . that this promise is made good though it be not performed to all those that love him , nor to all their children , nor to any in infancy . . that this promise is not true without the exception of election , and the expounding of it as conditional and not absolute sith it must then follow that god exempts none yet from mercy , there being not a thousand generations from noah to this day ▪ so that till mr. b. have proved the contrary to these ( which he can never do ) his proof from hence will appear to be of no force . but let us examine what he saith . let mee try therefore whether this d . commandment in the words cited do not prove the minor : to which end i argue thus . if god have assured his mercy by promise to the children of all them that love and obey him , then he would have them be taken for members of his church . but hee hath here assured his mercy by promise to the children of them that love and obey him : therfore he would have them bee taken for churchmembers : the minor is plain in the text . the consequence of the major i prove thus : ( viz. that all those must be taken for churchmembers on whom god hath thus stated or assured his mercy by promise ) ( the word [ mercy ] i shall explain anon : ) if god have estated and assured his mercy by promise to no other society of men in the world but the church , then all those are members of the church on whom his mercy is thus estated and assured : but god hath estated and assured his mercy on no other society : therefore , &c. here let me a little explain my meaning . sometime when god promiseth mercy , it is first to some particular person or family : sometime to a whole species or sort of persons . . sometimes it is some particular named mercy , and sometime in the general naming no sort or individual mercy . . sometimes it is upon a special ground proper to some one person or to few ; and somtimes it is upon a common ground . . when the mercy is specified ▪ it is sometime meerly corporal and sometime spiritual . . and of spiritual mercies , sometime it is common to others besides the saved ; and sometime special and proper to the saved . . sometime it is mercy limi●ed to a short or certain time ; and sometime estated and assur●d for con●inuance while the law standeth . now you mu●t understand first , that god may bestow on some particular person or family , on the ground of some special service , which they or their fathers have done , or of meer mercy some special corporal blessing , especially limited to some short or certain time : and that his common preservi●g sustaining mercies are over all his works ; and and yet none of this will prove men churchmembers . . but when god doth not name any particular person or family for his mercies , but estates them on a species or sort of persons ; and when it is not a m●er corporal mercy that is so stated , but either a spiritual mercy ( common o● special ) or else mercy in the general without specification , and when this is not on any ground of any partic●lar action or service done by any particular man , but upon a ground ( or condition ) common to others not named ; and all this not li●ited to any short or certain time , but stated to continuance , and that by a legal promise assuring it , and not onely a meer offer of it , in this case it will certainely proove th●m members of the church . answ. mr. b. leav● out in the minor the term [ all ] which was in the major of the first syllogism : which if it had been put in the minor ( as it was necessary hee should do to prove the conclusion hee should prove ) it would not have been proved out of the text ; which doth not assure mercy to all the children of all that love him , but to thousan●s , that is , multitudes of the● ; and to those mercy is not assured absolutely without condition of their love of god , nor is mercy in the text promised perpetually , but as andr. rivet . on exod. . . god doth not so extend the bounds of his mercy , that hee may not also deny it to the posterity of some godly men . for these things are said of those things which for the most part happen , gods liberty beeing alwayes reserved in his judgements and the distribution of good things . so wee reade the sonnes of godly parents to have been forsaken of god and grievously punished . . the consequence of his major is denied , and to his dictates ( for proof hee brings none but his own sayings ) i answer first , by denying that all those must bee taken for visible churchmembers on whom god hath stated or assured his mercy by promise , exod. . . no not though it were stated as mr. b. would have it , no promise , no not of sanctifying grace making of it self a person a visible churchmember , as i have shewed often before . . i deny that the mercy , exod. . is stated as mr. b. imagines ; but say , . that the mercy there meant , is stated on the israelites specially . . that it is not meant of spiritual but outward mercies , not now promised to the most holy saint on earth . . that it was declared on a particular ground of gods peculiar respect to israel , whom hee brought out of egppt. . that it is limited to a certain time , while they continued to be his people , which was not to be perpetually . . i deny that the words , exod. . . deut. . . do expresly contain a promise , but onely a declaration of gods frequent dealing , which i confess , doth imply a promise , as his declaration , exod. ● . . deut. . . doth imply a threatening ; yet i think it not fit to call it a promise , sith the apostle ephes. . . termes the fifth commandment , the first commandment with promise . but mr. b. adds . now that it is the priviledge of the church onely to have god thus engaged to be mercifull to them , ( and that in a way of distinction from others , as it is in this commandment promise , ) is to me a truth beyond dispute ▪ and if any do doubt of it , i argue with them thus . . if no such promise of such mercy to any sort of men out of the church can be shewn in the scripture , then we must take it as proved that there is none : but no such promise can be shewn estating such mercy on any others ; therefore , &c. they that can shew any such promise , let them produce it . answ. the assertion is not a truth beyond dispute , but may be questioned , nor is the consequence good , there being no such declaration of god that he hath made no such promise of such mercy to any sort of men but what can be shewn in the scripture ; and if it were , yet till mr. b. hath shewed that the mercy exod . . is greater then god vouchsafes to persons out of the church visible , it may be held ( notwithstanding any thing mr. b , produceth ) that such mercy is promised to persons out of the church . however , it is most false that god hath assured his mercy on no other society then the church . if the promise , gen. . . be understood of all mankind as meant by the womans seed ( as he before in his third letter to me , and after here , ch . . expounds it ) then there is a promise of mercy stated on othe●s then the church ; and the same may be said of gen. . , , . besides what is implied in the speeches , psal. . . psal ▪ . . tim. . . till mr. b. shew a greater mercy is stated on the children of all that love god then is on cyrus , isa. . , &c. there is a promise shewn in scripture of such mercy to one out of the church . the like to nebuchadnezzar , jer. . . and the promises of calling the gentiles , of re-ingraffing the jews , rom. . , . are promises to persons out of the church , and yet of mercy , yea the chiefest mercy ; and therefore mr. bs. dictates are but vain . yet he goes on thus . . briefly consider to the contrary : . those without the church are said to be without hope , without god , strangers to the covenant of promises , ephes. . . answ. it is said of the ephesians , that they were once without hope , &c. and it is said also that they were gentiles uncircumcised ; but it doth noth not follow therefore that all gentiles uncircumcised were without christ not having hope , without god in the world : nor doth it follow , that all gentiles were out of any visible church who were uncircumcised ; nor doth it follow , they had no promises of mercy who were strangers from the covenants of promise there meant . it is true , this text proves that the estate of the gentiles afore the gospel was preached to them , was as paul describes it : yet this neither proves that there were none who were out of the commonwealth of israel , and were strangers from the covenants of promises made to israel , had no mercy assured to them equal to that , exod. ● . . . saith mr. b. the promises are all yea and amen in christ , cor. . . and christ is the head over all ( indeed but onely ) to the church , ephes. . . to his called he giveth the precious promises , pet. . . answ. the promises , cor. . . are such as were in christ , and must be understood of saving promises , which are not made to the visible church as visible , much less to the children of visible churchmembers as such , but onely to those that are of the invisible , and therefore this text proves not that no mercy such as is meant , exod. . . is assured to any society or persons but those of the visible church . the same also may be said of pet. . . where the promises are given to the effectually called , and that by them they are partakers of the divine nature . and for the other text , though there be no mention of promises in it at all , yet if any be implied , the speech is meant onely of the church of gods elect ( not the meer visible church ) which alone is his body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all ; and therefore if these texts prove no mercy promised but to the church , they prove no mercy promised but to the invisible church , which is contrary to mr. bs. purpose here . . saith he , by faith it is that promises were obtained , heb. . ▪ answ. it is said , by faith they subdued kingdomes , in the same v. and therefore after the rate of mr. bs. reasoning , none should subdue kingdomes but the church . the faith there is such a faith as the just lived by , ch . . . therefore if mr. bs. arguing be good , promises of mercy should be made to none , but those who believe with such a faith , and consequently it is not the meer visible church but the invisible onely to whom such mercy is assured . the answer is by denying the consequence , that because promises were obtained by faith , therefore mercy is not assured to any by promise but the church . . he adds . to abraham and his seed were the promises made , gal. . . both common and special : the children of the promise are accounted for the seed , rom. . . therefore if those without the church were children of the promise , then they should be the seed . the promise is sure to all the seed , rom. . . the promise is to you and your children , and as many as the lord shall call , acts . . the seed are heirs of the promise . answ. mr. bs. needlesness still appears . he should prove , that such mercy as he conceives promised exod. . . ( which he will not avouch to be saving mercy ) is assured to none but the church , and he means the visible church : but here he brings promises of saving mercy , which he dare not say to be made to the children of all that love him , exod. . . and are indeed made onely to those who are of the invisible church , and therefore impertinently alledged , the promises , gal. . . are such as are made to christ either personal for his body mystical , or to christ mystical , and the promises are those by which is the inheritance , v. . righteousness by faith , v. , ▪ which can be true onely of the elect , and so that , v. . if ye be christs , then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise . so rom. . . is meant onely of true believers , and rom. . . of the elect onely . now it 's not denied , that the promises of righteousness and life belong onely to the church invisible ; but these promises are far different from the promise to the children of them that love god , exod. . . which mr. b. will have onely meant of the visible church , and of things much below saving benefits . the text , acts . . it as impertinently alledged , as hath been proved at large before , the promise there being not meant of any visible priviledge , nor the fathers there considered as believers , or lovers of god , but as crucifiers of christ , and the promise not said to be to any of either sort , but those who were called by god. . saith mr. b. the church is the house and family of god , and the promises are his treasure , and christs legacies , and the word of promise is his testament ; therefore not for these without . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , and the word is the truth . in the middest of the church are gods praises , heb. . . therefore in the church are his mercies and promises . it is by the church that the man●fold wisdome of god is known , eph. . ● . the church onely is that body whereof the lord of the promises is head , col. . . answ. the promises of saving benefits are gods treasure , and belong onely to the invisible church ; but it follows not therefore that god makes no promise , or the mercy exod. . . belongs to none out of the visible church . let it be yeelded , the church is the pillar of truth , and the word is the truth ; yet that god makes no promises to cyrus , nebuchadnezzar , and others out of the church , or that his promise to them is not true , or that he vouchsafes no mercy to them , follows not . god is praised in the church , and his counsel made known , and christ the head of the church onely , and yet all praise , promise , and mercy not appropriate to the church . . yet again . they that are not in covenant , are not under the promises of this mercy , or have not this mercy stated on them by promise : but those that are without the church are not in covenant . this argument is past contradiction . no man dare say but these are covenant mercies in this promise mentioned . wicked men in the church are within the covenant , as i have proved in the appendix of my aphorisms ; but those without are not in covenant , though they may have some conditional promises offered . the covenant and such promises as those go together : therefore it is called the covenant of promises , eph. . . rom. . , . so is mercy onely assured by the covenant ▪ deut. . , . and that to the church onely , kings . . neh. . . & . . mic. . . luke . , . pet. . . many more scriptures shew the conjunction between gods mercy and covenant ; and most certainly they are all out of covenant that are out of the visible church . answ. if paedobaptists had not a mind to mock rather then to teach people by their writings , me thinks being so often called upon to speak distinctly what covenant they mean , when they say infants and visible churchmembers are in covenant , and in what manner they are in covenant by gods act , their own , or the baptizers , they would still when they speak of being in covenant clear their meaning . there are divers covenants of god ; that with noah , gen. . that with abraham , gen. . that with the jews , exod. . the new covenant , heb. . , , , . being in covenant must needs come from their own act of covenanting , and then the sense is , wicked men in the church are within the covenant , that is , they promise to god : but in this sense no infant is in covenant with god ; fo● no infant promiseth to god. or being in covenant is from gods act of promising , and thus it is most certainly false that they are all out of covenant that are out of the visible church : for all men and beasts are in the covenant with noah , gen. . , . mr. b. himself saith thus in his appendix to his aphorisms , answ to the th . object . p. . there is a covenant betwixt god and every living creature . if i sho●ld instance in all the promises made to ahab , nebuchadnezzar , cyrus , darius , &c. it would be tedious . the jews not yet re-ingraffed , nor of the visible church , are certainly in covenant in this sense , rom. . , . isaac , jacob , afore they were born were in covenant , and so all elect infants in their mothers womb , and men of years yet in infidelity a●e within the covenant of evangelical grace , even the new covenant , heb. . though not in the visible church . the minor therefore of mr. bs. argument is so far from being p●st contradiction , that it is in my apprehension manifestly false . i grant all mercies mentioned in any promise are covenant mercies ; but for the mercy , exod. . . it seems mr. b cannot tell what it is , though he tell us on his word it is more then corporal , if not special . now he saith , appendix , p. ● ▪ sam. . , , , . the spirit of god and other f●vours are promised to saul . and sure as much is promised to cyrus , isa. . & . , &c. as was to saul . wicked men in the visible church , continuing so to the end , neither are , nor ever were in the covenant of evangelical grace , or new covenant , though they have been in the covenants with noah , and some other covenants , in some of which also wicked men without the visible church have been . the covenants of promise ( not as mr. b. reads it , the covenant of promises , ephes. . . ) were as it is most likely the covenants gen. . exod. . and the meaning of the apostle in saying the ephesians were strangers from them , seems to be , that they were not acquainted with them , and therefore in appearance further from god , as in like manner their uncircumcision and alienation from the policy of israel , are alledged to the same purpose . and yet when they were made believers , and were in the visible ch●rch , they were in neither covenant as there is meant , i mean , they were not in the covenant made to abraham , gen. . as it did contain special promises made to his natural seed , nor in the covenant made at horeb any more then they were circumcised or in the policy of israel . rom. . , . hath nothing of covenants or promises , but what is v. . is often before shewed to be meant of the covenants and promises peculiar to the israelites ; and therefore , though the covenant and such promises go together , yet therein is nothing which pertains to the visible churchmembership of our children , those who are now in the church being not in those covenants which were peculiar to the israelites . 't is true the mercy meant deut. . . was assured by covenant , but that covenant was v. . it which god sware to the fathers , which so far as it was evangelical , belongs onely to the elect whether of jews or gentiles , so far as political to the hebrews onely . the same i say of kings . . nehem. . . & . . mic. . ● . the texts luk. . . . pet. . . are plainly meant of saving mercy , and of the elect or invisible church onely . so that though i grant a conjunction between gods mercy and covenant , and that saving mercy is assured onely by the covenant to the church invisible onely , yet i deny that god is in covenant with none but those of the visible church , that god hath not promised such mercy as is meant exod. . . to any but in the visible church , that what continuance of mercy is assured exod. . . to posterity is assured to believers children now as it was to the israelites , that they are all visible churchmembers to whom that mercy is assured , and therefore infer that the pretended ordinance of infants visible churchmembership hath no footing in that text . mr. b takes up●n him to answer some objections , but very lamely . if any ob●ect , saith he , that this promise is to the children of them onely that love him and keep his commandments ; and wee know not who those be ; i answer , it is true , but though god make the promise onely to such , yet quoad nos , it belongeth to others ; that is , wee are bound to deal with all those that profess love and obedience by a serious probable profession , as if they were truly what they profess : this i shall prove afterwards . he that hath the face to say that god estateth here his mercy on the children of those that love , and obey him , and yet taketh them not for so much as members of the visible church , hath too hard a forehead for me to dis●ute it with any further . answ. though wee are to take such professours by a judgement of charity to have such love , and title to the promise , and are to exhibit all such offices of love as we are bound to by such a love as is due to them that truly love god , yet we are not bound to take them for visible church-members by that judgment of charity , but by a judgment of certainty sensibly perceiving their profession ; nor are we to take their children as visible churchmembers no not by paedobaptists own grounds , for they are not so but upon their parents real love , they being not visible church-members but by the covenant which belongs not to them except they do truly love god , and not in shew onely , which is to bee known by a judgement of certainty not of charity onely , and that being not attainable it is not by mr. bs. own grounds knowable that any infant is a visible churchmember . what he saith he shall prove afterwards hath been examined already in the first part of this review sect . . i am not moved by mr. bs. censure , but take it for a speech of a man who loves to talk confidently when hee disputes weakly , like those who set out weak members with much bumbast . he adds . some may object , . that they know not what mercy it is that is here promised , whether common or special : to which i answer : what if they know not ? yet it is mercy ▪ and more then corporal if not special ; what if god promise onely in general to bee to them a merciful god ? sure it affordeth us ground of confidence and comfort : as it would do to a poor man to have a prince promise to be merciful to him and his children . answ. that the mercy exod. . . is more then corporal , if not special is ●aid , but not proved by mr. b. that he dare so confidently assert infants visible churchmembership from a promise of mercy which hee cannot certainly resolve of what mercy it is , shews hee hath a bo●d face not fit for a man that seeks for truth . especially if it be considered that no promise of it self doth make a man actually a visible churchmember , no not of faith or profession , or visible churchmembership . for a promise assures a futurity , put 's not a thing in present being . 't is true a promise gives ground of confidence and comfort , that the thing shall be in its due time which is promised , but a promise of any mercy in general cannot assure the futurity of visible churchmembership , no not though it were of more then corporal or special mercy , and therefore this argument his own words do sufficiently evince to bee onely added to make a number without strength . . saith he , they may object , that it is uncertain , what is meant by a thousand generations : whether it be the remote or the nearest progeny . to which i answer : . i judge it to be onely to the immediate children of godly or ungodly parents , that the promise and threat in this commandment is made to ; else there would bee a contradiction between them . for if the third generation of a wicked man should have godly parents between , then the promise would belong to them , and consequently not the threat ; and so on the other side . the meaning seems plainly to me to be this , that god will encrease the punishment of the children of ungodly parents according as they succeed their parents , remembring the sins of the grand-fathers in punishing their children ( they being still the children onely of the wicked . ) and that he will multiply mercies on the posterity of the righteous , the more still because they had righteous progenitors , supposing still that they are the children of such . answ. to interpret a thousand generations or the third and fourth by one onely , is such a piece of arithmetick as i should conceive none but an ideot or natural fool would use . the imagined contradiction is easily avoided by conceiving , that it is not a plain promise or threat of what god will constantly do , but a declaration of what hee doth often , or in some cases ; which exposition is confirmed from hence , in that we see so much variation in gods dealings , as necessitates us so to limit it . though josiah were a godly prince , yet god would not shew mercy to his sons , and though manasseh repented , yet for his sins wrath fell on his posterity and the whole people . but let mr. bs. interpretation , or mine ▪ or any others be righter , yet the speech must needs have such limitations as wil disable it from yeilding a certain rule , whereby the children of all visible professors visible churchmembership may bee proved , and therefore it is frivolously alledged by mr. b. to that end . . saith he , but i further answer : what if this were not understood ? must wee therefore reject that which may bee understood ? there is somewhat doubtfull in the text , viz. what mercy it is particularly ? and to how many generations ? if ungodly progenitors intervene ? and there is somewhat beyond doubt in the text , that is ▪ that god estateth his mercy on the immediate off-spring of his people . now must i throw away that which is past doubt because of that which is doubtfull ? so we may throw away all the scriptures . answ. we must not reject that which may be understood , nor must we wrest the scripture to infer from it that which cannot be inferred , but omit the allegation of doubtful texts , and urge that which is certain . that which hee conceives undoubted is i conceive uncertain , that god estateth his mercy on the immediate off spring of his people . the instance of josiah●s children is sufficient to sh●w it not to bee universally true . that which he acknowledgeth doubtfull is enough to shew , that nothing can be from this text certainly inferd for mr. bs. purpose , and therefore in the close of this chapter mr. b. confesseth that which is sucifficient to shew , that the visible churchmembership of all infants of godly parents much less of meer professors , cannot bee gathered from exod. . . i pass on to the next . ch. . he saith thus . the th . arg . is drawn from psal. . . [ his seed is blessed ] that is the righteous mans seed ; whence i argue as before : if god by his unchanged law and promise , have pronounced the seed of the righteous blessed , then certainly they are members of his visible church . but hee here pronounceth them blessed ; therefore , &c. . i have proved before that hee hath so done by no society out of the church : they that say he ha●h pronounced any other society blessed , let them shew it . but it is absurd once to imagine that god should pronounce a society blessed , and yet take them for none of his visible church . . that this promise is an unchangeable promise , i take for past doubt , till mr. t. shew me where it is repealed a little better then he hath shewed mee the repeal of infants church-membership . it is made to the righteous and their seed in general , and not to the jews onely : it is writ●en in the book of psalms from whence christ and his apostles fetch many texts for confirmation of their doctrine . and if it had been spoken but to the jews , yea or to one particular person , yet if it cannot be proved to bee restrained to them as being from a reason proper to them , the scripture teacheth us to apply it to all the people of god , heb. . . the apostle applieth that to all believers , which was spoken onely to joshua , i will never leave thee nor forsake thee . so heb. . . from psal. . heb. . , . rom. . . answ. . that the speech psal. . . compared with v. . seems rather to be a narration of what the psalmist found by experience , then a promise of god. nevertheless sith there are promises to like purpose elsewhere , as psal. . . prov. . . i will not deny the speech psal. . ▪ to imply a promise , nor will i say god hath revoked ( or as mr. bs. language is ) repealed it . . nor will i say that this promise was proper to the jews , though i conceive that the promises to posterity have more reference to the israelites then other people by vertue of the national and legal covenants made to that people , and i think mr. bs. reason of no force , that it is not made to the jews onely , because it is written in the book of the psalms ; for promises proper to them are there , as psal. . , , &c. psal. . , &c. . i deny not promises to one particular person may be safely applied oft times to others . . i deny that when psal. . . it is said his seed is blessed , and psal. . . the generati●n of the righteous shall be blessed , this must be understood of every one of their seed , or at all times , as in their infancy , the speech being true onely of that which happens often , though not always . mr. b. himself , p. . saith , even as when he saith [ the seed of the righteous are blessed ] he doth not tie himself to make every one blessed with his special blessing , though he do it ordinarily . and therefore it is most frivolously alledged to prove an ordinance of every infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , though the parent be no righteous person , but a visible professour , and very vicious , even an enemy to godliness . . there 's not a word that intimates any society here pronounced blessed , much less the society of the church . nor doth the term [ blessed ] prove it must be meant of the church . for others then the church and churchmembers are sometimes blessed , as psal. . . psal. . mr. b. here ch . . they that dash the children of babylon against the stones are blessed , psal. . . luke . . . mr. b. himself tels us , p. . that he affirms onely a certa●nty of churchmembership , and a strong probability of the justification of the infants of the righteous . but if we urge the word strictly , they onely are blessed whose sins are forgiven , psal. . . rom. . , . and therefore this text may as soon prove justification of every righteous mans seed ( which mr. b. asserts not ) as visible churchmembership . yea , no where is any termed blessed by reason of his visible churchmembership , but many times for their outward prosperity , as psal. . . deut. . , &c. gen. . . & . , . and that in this respect the blessing is meant , psal. . . may be gathered . from the constant tenour of the promises made to the righteous and their seed , which either are altogether or for the most part in blessings of this life , and accordingly the performance : . because in the new testament in which spiritual blessings are assured , there i● no promise of them to a believer and his seed , but to believers onely : . the occasion and series of the text , psal. . , . leads plainly to this sense , that the righteous is not so forsaken , nor his seed , as to be destitute of bread , that though he be mercifull and lendeth , yet his seed is blessed with sufficient provision of outward things : . the texts , psal. . . psal. . , , , . psal. . . lead us to this sense . from all which i answer by denying the consequence of the major in mr. bs. argument , and to his proof say , that it is no absurdity to pronounce persons blessed , and yet ●●ne of gods visible church . sect . lxxi . mr. th . arg . from the priority of infants churchmembership before circumcision . his th . from gods proneness to mercy : his th . from blessing and cursing , deut. . are answered . mr. b. proceeds thus , ch . . the th . arg . is this : if infants were churchmembers before ever circumcision was instituted , then certainly it was not proper to the jews , and consequently not ceased according to mr. t. his own doctrine : but infants were churchmembers before circumcision was instituted ; therefore it was not proper to the jews , nor is ceased . here at our dispute mr. t. seemed to yeeld all , if i would prove infants were churchmembers before circumcision . ans. so far as i can discern by my memory and such notes i have of the dispute , this was my concession , that if mr. b. would prove admission of infants as churchmembers before circumcision , i should yeeld to what he averred , that the law and ordinance of infants as visible churchmembers was not repealed ▪ yet i confess , by reason of mr. bs. quickness of speech , his unheeded altering terms , using often [ visible churchmembers ] for [ admission as visible churchmembers ] which in that time in the conflict of dispute i did not always take notice of , or through weariness mention , it not to be unlikely i did say as mr. b. saith i did . however by my writings it app●ars this is and was my constant judgement , that infants were visible members of no church but that of the hebrews , nor such till by gods call of abraham and his house they were taken to be his separated people ; and that infants were not admitted visible churchmenbers , nor any law of admission till that of circumcision , gen. . mr. b. adds . but in his sermon since among much of the same stuff , he made the poor deluded people believe ( i mean those that will believe him ) that by infants being churchmembers , i mean nothing else but that they suck of the brests of godly parents , and are brought up in the family of godly parents ; just as in our dispute he would have faced me down , before thousands of people , that by churchmembership i meant nothing but circumcision ; i told him i did not , and he told the people still that i did . is it any intemperance or harshness upon such dealings to say , that it is sad that ( i will not say eminent holiness , but ) a very little tenderness of conscience , and fear of god , and love of truth or charity to a brother , yea or common modesty should not restrain this ! but that mr. t. durst , first , take on him to search the heart , and know a mans thoughts to be contrary to his pr●fession ; secondly , and contrary to the plain sense of his terms of speech ; thirdly , and perswades multitudes of people that it is so . what hope can i have that ever mr. t. should be brought to the truth , when he hath not ability enough to understand what is the meaning of [ a member of the visible church ] and that after i had so fully told him ! i was long before i could get him to confess , that circumcision and churchmembership were two things , and separable , till i gave him instance in women . answ. . in the dispute i confess i did conceive that mr. b. could mean nothing but the command of circumcision by his ordinance of infants visible churchmembership , not imagining that he should magnifie such a toy , as he hath in his letter to me devised from gen. . , . & . . &c. which , and not defect of truth , tenderness of conscience , modesty , or charity ( in all which whether of us be defective the lord will judge ) made me so confident he did mean as i then said . . but that i ever said in my sermon , that by infants being churchmembers he meant nothing else but that they suck the brests of godly parents , and are brought in the family of godly parents , i do not yet believe . this i might , and i think did say , and do say it again , that i knew no sign whereby infants are visible churchmembers , except those be signs which are mentioned . . that i was long in yeelding the separation of circumcision and visible churchmembership , it was because i conceived that he meant infants of o●her people besides the circumcised , were visible churchmembers ▪ but when i found he meant that they were distinct and separable in the people of the jews , i yeelded it . he proceeds thus . and now must i be fain to shew , that churchmembership is neither sucking the brest of a godly woman , nor being brought in the family ? what a hard word is this [ churchmember ? ] when i know not possibly how to speak it plainer . why , sir , where is the difficulty ? is it in the word church ? i suppose we are agreed what a church visible is ? at least you understand it ? or is it in the term [ member ? ] why , do you not know what a [ member ] is ? how understand you pauls discourse about the members and body ? do you understand what is totum aggregatum & pars totius ? do yo● understand what it is to be a member of a city , or of a family ? and why not of a church ? if i say children are members of this kingdome ( or ( to please you ) commonwealth ) or if i say children are members of every city in the land , and of every family where they are , this is all true ; and me thinks a man of your parts should understand it ▪ and why not when i say , that infants are members of the church ? but if you will not understand , there is no remedy . answ. that mr. b. and i are not agreed what a visible church is , hath appeared before in the d . part of this review , sect . . i think i understand others when they speak of a visible churchmember and i think i now understand mr. b. but in the dispute i confess i did not understand mr. b. when he termed infants visible churchmembers , not because of the difficulty of the thing , but because mr. b. had a language ( as i then imagined , and now find ) of his own , of a mediate disciple and a visible churchmember by anothers faith , without any note in their persons whereby they are discernable sensibly to be christians more then infidels children : nor did he in the dispute or since clear it to me , that anothers faith could be a form o● note whereby an infant might be denominated or discerned sensibly to be a visible christian churchmember , or a disciple of christ. this if he shall yet do , i shall not trouble him to shew that churchmembership is neither sucking of the brest , nor being brought up in a godly family , but shall ( passing by his jeer at the parliaments altering the term kingdome into commonwealth ) confess infants members of the visible church as of civil kingdomes and cities . till then , i take mr. bs. language of infants discipleship and visible churchmembership by a promise and parents faith to be frivolous gibberish and false doctrine . but mr. b. attempts to prove his minor , . from mal. . . where he would have [ a seed of god ] to be visible churchmembers . but . he no where shews this to be the sense : . this is not the sense : for here the proper end of marriage is expressed , which is common to believers and infidels . but it is not the end of the marriage of infidels to seek a seed which should be churchmembers visible or invisible , neither their nor any others marriage is to propagate godliness or the profession of it , but to propagate a legitimate posterity , who are called , a seed of god , because according to his institution . but of this interpretation i need say no more then what is said in answer to mr. m. in the first part of this review , sect . . and to mr. bs. exception against my interpretation here , in the th . section . . because infants in abrahams family were churchmembers before circumcision . which i grant after the time of abrahams call , and gods separating his house to be his people ; and therefore if limited to the space of time between abrahams call , gen. . and the institution of circumcision , gen. . i should grant the minor in mr. bs. argument , and deny the consequence of the major . nevertheless in the proof of his minor there are sundry things , which i think not meet to pass by without animadversion . . that which he saith circumcision did not not make infants churchmembers , i grant it ; yet it made them visible churchmembers , though not of it self alone , yet with other signs : so that although i deny not other signs also to have concurred , yet this sign in part made them visible members of that church . . when he saith the covenant maketh churchmembers , how far it is true is shewed above at large , and withal how mr. b. is mistaken in making it the sole efficient cause . . if it be true that circumcision is but a sign of the covenant ( as he saith ) how is it a seal ( as is commonly asserted and by mr. b. himself ) as somewhat more then a bare sign ? . if it be not a sign chiefly of that covenant which maketh churchmembers , but which promised abraham the extraordinary priviledges after his believing , then it is some other covenant which circumcision was chiefly a sign of , then the covenant which maketh churchmembers ; which being as i conceive the covenant of grace in christ , it follows , . that the covenant , gen. . according to mr. b. was not the covenant of grace . : that it promised extraordinary priviledges to abraham . . that circumcision was chiefly a sign of this promise , and consequently the use of circumcising infants was not out of a reason common to believers infants , but peculiar to abraham and his seed , which cross sundry of paedobaptists prime hypotheses . . neither doth the apostle say , rom. . that the promise went before circumcision ; nor doth it follow , if he did , that churchmembership then went before it . . it may be , and by learned men is questioned , whether the infants or the parents be termed the breakers of gods covenant , gen. . . and if they were , it follows not they were of that people and in the covenant before , the breaking the covenant being not a breaking off from being in covenant , but a breaking of gods command in that covenant ; and their cu●ting off from gods people , might be by preventing from being gods people , as well as by making them not his people who were . . though the scripture do not intimate , that abrahams family was then first made a church , yet in calling that church the circumcision , it intimates , that then when they were circumcised they were solemnly declared to be gods people : and if the scrip●ure do not intimate , that then infants were first admitted members , as mr. b. saith here , it will concern him to shew where the scripture intimates their admission before , and how . i did conceive by mr. bs. words , p. . and elsewhere , that as he now avoucheth no other way by precept or example of admission but by baptism , so he avouched formerly no other way but by circumcision ▪ i wish he had in the beginning told us his mind plainly , the concealing of which in the dis●ute , and since , hath occasioned the misleading of many , and a great part of my trouble . . mr. b. argues thus . that infants were churchmembers before circumcision , i prove most likely thus : if god had before the same tender love to the faithfull and their seed as he had after , and there be no mention in scripture when the churchmembership of infants did begin ( since the first infants ) then we are to judge that it did not begin at the institution of circumcision ( but rather with the first infant of faithfull adam , though he after fell off ) because gods love to the faithfull and their seed , was as great before as after : but the antecedent is true ▪ therefore the consequent . he that will prove a beginning of infants churchmembership since the first infants , let him bring any scripture or good reason for it , and i will believe him ( which i never ex●ect to be done ) answ. . this reason , if it were good , might as well prove the invisible as well as visible churchmembership of all infants of believers , and the visible churchmembership of the seed unborn as well as born , and of the most open profane children of believers , as well a● the youngest children born into the world . . the love of god was never to the faithfull and their seed universally , i mean the special distinguishing love of god , nor to any of them but according to his election of grace . . god might and did love the faithfull and their seed , and yet the infant seed were not visible churchmembers afore abrahams time . . the reason of that regard god had to abrahams inheriting posterity to take their infants for visible churchmembers , was from his peculiar d●sign he had on that people to make them the people from whom his sons comming should be expected , which he vouchsafed not to believers of other people , whom yet he loved and their seed in respect of gospel mercies . . the beginning of infants visible churchmembership is sufficiently shewed b●fore , in that it is not shewed to have been any where but in the hebrew nation . . if adams infants , he standing in integrity , had been visible churchmembers , yet they had been such onely in the church by nature , which is nothing to the present point of visible churchmembership in the church instituted by electing some to be of the church , and some not . from hence i answer to the argument , . by denying the antecedent , that there is no mention in the scripture when the churchmembership visible of infants did begin . . the consequence of the major , if it did not , it proves not the visible churchmembership of infants afore abrahams time , much less from adams crea●ion , sith then there was no such church to be as now we enquire ●f , and gods love might be to believers seed , and yet they no visible church-members . the last argument , whereby mr. b. would evince infants visible churchmembership before abrahams time , which he saith here he had not leisure to improve largely , he hath , in his letter to me before recited , i think to the utmost he could , urged it , and the answer thereto is fully made here , sect . , , , , , . and thereby it may appear , not onely to a man of common sense , but of acute sense , that there is likelihood that infants should be visible churchmembers in abraham● family , and yet not in the foregoing patriarchs , and that from the scripture , and yet gods love as great to noah , sem , and their seed as to others . nor is it true that all these churchmercies are bestowed upon the standing gospel grounds of the covenant of grace entred wi●● our first parents presently upon the fall , but visible churchmembership of infants was upon the special transeunt fact of god in taking the hebrew nation to bee his people . and though the promise gen. . . comprehend infants , yet not all infants ; and i wonder how mr. b. beeing a man of common sense , should not discern that if hee will have the whole seed of the woman comprized in the promise gen. . ▪ and that they are thereby churchmembers , hee must baptise all the posterity of eve , which hee makes a thing to bee avoided p. . and gives cautions against it . and it is to me a sign of his palpable inconsiderateness in this his hasty scribling , that he cites revel . . . to prove satans enmity against the whole seed of the woman , against our infants no doubt ▪ when the woman , revel . . . is not eve , as gen. . . but the woman cloathed with the sunne ▪ commonly conceived to represent the chr●stian church , and the seed are said to keep the commandments of god , and to have the testimony of jesus christ , which cannot bee said of infants . but i leave him to the lord to give him either repentance for his abuse of scripture and perverting the truth , or to let him fill up the measure of his iniquity , and proceed to the next . ch. . arg . th . if god bee not more prone to severity then to mercy , then hee will admit of infants to bee members of the visible church . but god is not more prone to severity then to mercy : therefore he will admit of infants to be visible churchmembers . all that needs proof here is the consequence of the major proposition , which is made evident thus : god hath cut off multitudes of infants of wicked men , both from the church and from life ( for the sins of their progenitors ) therefore if he should not admit some infants of faithful men , so much as into the visible church , then hee should bee more prone to severity then to mercy : ( except it bee proved that god giveth some greater mercy out of the church , which is not yet proved : ) all the children of dathan and abiram and their accomplices , were swallowed up with them for their rebellion , and so cut off both from the church and life . achans sons and daughters were all stoned and burned for his sin , and so cut off both from the church and life , jos. . , ●● ▪ yea it was the stablished law of god concerning any city that shou●d serve other gods ( by the sed●cement of whomsoever ) that is , if they should break the covenant ( for the covenant is that they take god onely for ●heir god ) then that city should wholly be destroyed , and not so much as the infants spared , deut. . , , . &c. and god concludeth it in his moral law , that he will visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate him . all the infants of amalek are slain with the parents by gods command , num. . . they that dash the children of babylon against the stones are blessed , psal. . . the children of daniels accusers are cast unto the lions , dan. . . yea god commanded israel to save the life of no one infant of all the nations that were given them for inheritance ; the hittites , amorites , canaanites , perezites , the hivites and jebusites , deut. . , . ( how all this is reconciled with that of eze. [ the son shal not bear the iniquity of the father ] is shewed by our divines that write on the d . com. ) and if god will not admit the infants of believers so much as to bee members of his visible church , or kingdom , then hee should not onely shew more severity to the seed of the wicked , then mercy to the seed of the faithful ; but should even cast out all infants in the world from being in any visible state of church mercies . and how that will stand with the tenderness of his compassions to the godly and their seed , and the many promises to them , and the enlargement of grace in gospel times i know not . answ. . the speech of gods proneness to mercy more then severity , is according to my apprehension of gods attributes not right , nor however it may pass among the vulgar is it true in exact speech , such as should be used in disputes ▪ for though i acknowledge justice vindicative to be natural in god , and goodness ; yet the term of proneness to severity , intimates an inclination or desire to it , which is stopped by a contrary inclination ; whereas gods attributes are all equally in him , nor hath he any propensity of desires to exercise one more then another , but he doth work all things according to the counsel of his own will. . it is falsly supposed , as if visible churchmembership were an act of remunerative mercy and not the taking of infants into visible church-membership , were an act of severity against the infant for the parents sin , whereas the taking or not taking into visible churchmembership i● as election to eternal life , or reprobation an act of soveraignty and liberty , which god useth as hee pleaseth without respect to any persons or parents good or bad actions . . it is also as falsly supposed that by not taking infants into visible churchmembership they are cast out from being in any visible state of churchmercies . for their being in the families of the godly though not visible churchmembers , puts them into a visible state of churchmercies , even as well as if they were taken to be visible churchmembers and baptised . . that god giveth some greater mercy then visible churchmembership , to wit , eternal life , out of the church visible is easily proved in that he saves elect infants which die in the womb , are abortives , or still born . and if mr. b. do deny it hee must hold a tenet like the papists , that without his visible churchmembersh●p infants are damned . . the grace of god in gospel times is enlarged in the extent of it to all nations , in the doctrine of the gospel concerning the messiah comen already , freedom from the bondage of the law , in the powring out of the spirit , in the new covenant ▪ &c. although infants be not visible churchmembers . . gods tenderness of compassions to the godly and their seed may and doth stand with the non-visible membership of their infants in the christian church , it being not out of any defect of mercy in god , or deprivation of mercy to them , which they may not have without it , but because it is his good pleasure that the church christian should not bee by natural descent , but by faith , not national but of believers of all nations . . how god is said to admit into visible churchmembership infants needs explication , admission , as i have hitherto conceived it , beeing the act of the administratour of baptism , according to mr. bs. doctrine pag. . and therefore his conclusion seems to have this sense , that god will baptise some infants with water , which is a fri●olous conceit . . if mr. bs. suppositions on which his argument rests should bee granted him , the conclusion should bee rather , that god will not permit the infants of the godly to bee put to death , but will keep them alive from the hands of persecutors , for otherwise hee should be more prone to severity to the wicked , then to mercy to the godly and their seed . for all the instances hee gives of gods severity to the children of wicked men is in the taking away of their natural lives ; and therefore his inference if there were any force in it , would conc●ude not the visible churchmembership of the infants of the godly , but the preservation of their liv●s in common calamities and persecutions ; which it is certain he doth not , but as the wiseman saith all things happen alike to alike to all , eccles. . . which things being premised , thoug● the minor of m. ●s . first syllogism may be well questioned , yet waving it , i de●y the consequences of the major in both the syllogisms , which rest on such futile dictates as he hath not proved , except by saying he knows not how it should be otherwise , which seems to intimate this fond conceit of himself , as if none could know what he doth not . he goes on in his frivolous arguings thus . ch . the th . arg . i draw from deut. . , , . those that keep the covenant are [ blessed in the fruit of their body ; ] and of covenant-breakers it is said [ cursed sh●lt thou be in the fruit of thy body ; thy sons and thy daughters shall be given to another people , and thy ey● shall look , and ●a●l with longing for them , &c. thou shalt beget sons and daughters , but thou shalt not enjoy them , for they shall go into captivity . the argument that i fetch hence is this . that doctrine which maketh the children of the faithful to be in a worse condition ( or as bad ) then the curse in deut. . doth make the children of covenant ▪ breakers to be in is false doctrine : but that doctrine which denieth the infants of the faithful to be visible churchmembers , doth make them to bee in as bad or a worse condition then is threatned by that curse deut. . therefore it is false doctrine . the major is undeniable . the minor i prove thus : the curse on the children deut. . is , that they go into captivity : now to bee put out of the whole visible church of christ is a sorer curse then to go into captivitie : therefore that doctrine which puts infants out of the church , doth make them in a more accursed state then those in deut. . they might bee churchmembers in captivity as their parents were ; or if they were not , yet it was no worse then this ; to bee in captivity is but a bodily judgement directly ; but to bee out of the church is directly a spiritual judgement : therefore to bee out of the church , is a greater judgement ( which i must take for granted , having before proved that it is far better to bee in the visible church then out . ) answ the minor of the first and sec●nd syllogism are both denied . for though to be put out of the whole visible church of christ , either by just excommunication or voluntary desertion is a heavie curse , yet to be put out doctrinally , that is , to teach that infants are not visible christian churchmembers is not to put them under any curse at all , neither is it to be so , any judgement spiritual or bodily , nor are they in any better case by their being accounted visible churchmembers and baptised then they are without both , nor hath mr. b. proved any such thing before , but what he hath scribled to that purpose is before shewed to bee vain . another argument , saith hee , this text would afford in that the judgement on the children is part of the curse on the parents ( cursed shalt thou bee in the fruit of thy body ) now god doth not curse the faithful ; but hath taken off the curse by christ ( though corporal afflictions are left . ) but i must haste . answ. that non-visible churchmembership of infants now is any part of judgement or curse for the parents sin hath not the least colour of proof from this text or any other . the purport of the whole chapter is quite besides the present business , it being to assure the israelites of prosperity in canaan , while they kept gods commandments and adhered to him , and curses on them and theirs , if they fell off from god ; the curses are for the most part corporal and on the israelites , and therefore the thing belongs not to the present point , nor is it true that always the judgment on the children is part of the curse on the parents neither in corporal nor spiritual evils . and though the truly faithful are not cursed with the great curse of condemnation , yet those that are onely so visibly may bee so , yea and the faithfull themselves are not altogether free from some curses both on themselves and their children , as on the other side , wicked men may have some blessings on them and their children . mr. b. himself said in the next ch . . before , they that dash the children of babylon against the stones are blessed , psal. . yet were they idolaters . christ hath taken off the curse opposite to the blessing of righteousness , gal. . , , . not every curse from the faithfull . out of all which i infer , that were it granted that the non-visible churchmembership of infants were a judgement for the parents sin , and that christ hath taken off the curse from the faithfull , yet it would not follow , that believing ▪ parents infants must be christian visible churchmembers , sith some curses still stay on the children for the parents sin : yea , mr. b. before in his letter tels me , that it was determined in one of their private disputes ( by himself no doubt , the dr. of the chair in the colledge of worcestershire ministers at kidderminster ) that the sins of nearer parents are imputed as part of our original or natural guilt . i hast after mr. b. sect . lxxii . mr. th . arg. ch . from the absurdity of my doctrine making all infants to be members of the visible kingdome of the devil , is answered . ch. . saith he , the th . arg . that doctrine which maketh all infants to be members of the visible kingdome of the devil , is false doctrine : but that doctrine which denieth any infants to be members of the visible church , doth make them all members of the visible kingdome of the ●evil : therefore it is false doctrine . mr. t. taketh the like reasoning hainously from mr. m. as if were injurious so to charge him : and he saith , . consequences remote must not be fastened on men when they deny them ▪ . many unbaptized are not in the visible kingdome of the devil ; and asketh , whether children be in or out of that kingdome before baptism : if out , then by not baptizing he leaves them not in it , &c ▪ to this i answer , . he that saith , infants are all shut out of heaven , may well be charged for teaching that they go to 〈◊〉 because the consequence is not remote , but direct , among th●se that acknowledge not a third place . . i will onely lay a true charge on the doctrine and not the persons : the doctrine sure may be charged with the consequences , though the person may not . . it is not your denial of baptism directly , that leaveth infants in the visible kingdome of the devil ; but your denial of their churchmembership : therefore to those vain passages i answer , that it 's true , that many unbaptized are in the kingdome of christ , and so many infants also ; and so not in the visible kingdome of the devil : but that no man who is known to be out of christs visible church , ordinarily can be out of satans visible kingdome , i shall now prove ; and so that your doctrine is guilty of making ( i mean not really but doctrinally making ) all infants to be members of satans visible kingdome , in that you deny any infants to be members of the visible church . answ. . that which i said about remote consequences not to be charged on men as their sentence , was spoken not from his charge of leaving all the infants to have their actual standing in the visible kingdome of the devil , but of putting them all out of the covenant of grace ; and this was made the bloudy sentence of the anabaptists , though no such thing can be proved of them by any of their sayings . and therefore the two answers here of mr. b. are impertinent , my speeches being about another point , though perhaps somewhat like it , and charged on us with it . and to mr. bs. answers i reply , . mr. b. seems to me to oppose ineptly a direct consequence to a remote , whereas a near consequence is opposed to a remote , not a direct ; for a remote consequence may be direct ▪ as well as a near . but it is frequent with mr. b. to abuse words . . if a person acknowledge a third place they that shut infants out of heaven may not be charged with it as their sentence , that they go to hell , which mr. bs. limitation intimates he acknowledgeth . and then by like reason this is not to be charged on me , for that i deny infants visible churchmembership , that i leave them in the visible kingdome of the devil , sith i leave them in a neutral state , of which more anon . . i shall examine the charge on my doctrine , which i deny by denying the minor of mr. bs. syllogism . . though mr. b. call the passages in my apology , p. . vain , yet it will appear there 's no vanity in any of them . . the argument by which i proved that unbaptized persons may be in christs visible kingdome , which ( mr. b. confesseth ) did fitly oppose mr. ms. imputation of leaving them all in the devils visible kingdome to whom we denied baptism , i think will serve against mr. bs. opinion . for if it be true that infants are admitted into the visible church by baptism ( which is his position , p. , . ) then they are out of it afore they are baptized , ( for afore admission none is in , but without , ) and if so , according to mr. bs. doctrine , infants are in the visible kingdome of the devil , sith he denies a third estate , and the horrid consequence is to be charged on mr. bs. doctrine , not on mine . . mr. bs. way of charging my doctrine is at vain as mr. ms. thus it proceeds . for if it be certain ( as you say ) that no infants are members of the vis●ble church , they are out of it : and then i argue thus . if there be no third estate on earth , but all are either in the visible church of christ , or in the visible kingdome of the devil ; then that doctrine which puts them out of the visible church of christ , doth leave them in the visible kingdome of the devil . but that there is no third state , but that all the world is in one of the two kingdomes , i prove thus . the common definition of the church affirmeth them to be a people called out of the world , and christ faith , he hath chosen them out of the world , and that they are not of the world , and in the same place divers times call's the devil [ the prince of this world , ] joh. . . & . . & . . & . . & . . & . , . and the apostle calleth him the god of the world , cor. . . so then , if the devil be the prince and god of the world as it is distinct from the church , and out of which the church is taken : then all those that are not taken out of the world with the church , are still of the world where satan is prince : but the antecedent is before proved , therefore the consequent is true . the world and the church contain all mankind according to the ordinary scripture distribution . answ. . the world and the church are not in all the places cited contradistinct . for joh. . . this world comprehends the church as well as them without , christs kingdome was not from the church by their weapons , or other procurement ; but this world is opposed to heavenly power , and gift , from whence christ had his kingdome . . nor in the rest of the places where the devil is termed the god of this world , or the prince of this world , or the disciples are said not to be of the world , can the speech be meant of infants ; for of them of whom it is said that the devil is the god of this world , by the world are meant , cor. . . those that believe not , in whom he hath blinded their minds , that the light of the glorious gospel of jesus christ should not shine unto them ; and so must the rest be understood , where he is said to be the prince of this world , according to what is said ephes. . . which is not to be said of infants ; and in other places , as john . . john . . . they are said to hate the apostles , which is not to be said of infants : and therefore from hence they are not proved to be in the devils kingdome , though they were reprobates . . the world is not in these places opposed to the visible church , so that who ever are in the visible church are not of the world , and they who are of the world are not of the visible church . for . the world out of whom the apostles were called , were the jewish church , which if mr. b. do not ( as i conceive he doth ) make the visible church of god when the apostles were called , sure mr. bl. mr. cobbet , and others do , as i have shewed before , and therefore the world is not put as contradistinct to the visible church . . the world is in the places cited so described by their actions of hating the apostles , by their exclusion out of christs prayer , joh. . . by their prince satan , by the apostles calling and choosing out of them , that the world cannot be construed onely to note non-visible churchmembers , but a party that are obstinate enemies to christ , and so reprobates , whether in the visible church , or out of it ; and if it stand in direct contradistinction to the church ( which i find not in any of the places cited ) it is to the invisible , not to the meer visible church : so that they who are without the visible church , may be no part of the world therein meant ; and they that are within the visible church , may be part of the world . . the definition , that the church are a people called out of the world , being expounded of the visible church , is meant of outward call , which infants are not capable of , and so the definition excludes infants from being a part of the church there meant , and yet they are not in the world in the sense in which it is taken in the texts mentioned ( except joh. . . ) for they are not haters of christ or his apostles , nor recusant unbelievers , nor such as obey satan as their prince . but if it be expounded of the invisible church , and the calling meant of invisible operation of the spirit , i deny not but elect infants may be so called out of the world , and be part of the invisible church . these things premised , i answer . the conclusion is not in the latter syllogism the same with the minor in the former syllogism which should have been proved . . the antecedent or minor in the later syllogism , which is this , [ the devil is the prince and god of the world as it is distinct from the church , and out of which the church is taken . ] if it be meant of the visible church i deny . for neither is the world in any of the texts distinct from the visible church , but the visible church or some members of it are the world there meant , and the devil the prince of them , and the visible church in respect at least of many perhaps most of their members not taken out of the world , but in it still ; nor is the devil the prince of them that yet are uncalled by an outward call from the world , if as infants they be not by their choice and actions conjoyned to the world , but of them that voluntarily adhere to and act with the wicked world . infants are neither in the world as it is there taken , nor without , that is , they are neither with them nor agai●st them in their present state ; but ( as they say in logick ) a whelp till the th . day is neither blind nor seeing , so an infant till it act is neither within nor without the world visibly , in which satan is prince . nor are those dictates of mr. b. true , or proved by the scriptures cited , that no man who is known to be out of christs visible church ordinarily can be out of satans visible kingdome , that the world and the church visible contain all mankind according to the ordinary scripture distribution . but if [ the world ] be taken for reprobates , and the church be taken for the invisible church of the elect , i grant it is true that infants are in one part , and that satan or god is prince of them : but this is nothing for mr. bs. purpose , though it be most agreeable to some passages , as joh. . , &c. about the world and the church . mr. b. proceeds thus . if it be said , that yet they are not visibly in satans kingdome : i answer , if no infants be of christs visible church , and this be a known thing , then they are visibly out of it ; and if they be visibly out of that church , then they are visibly of the world which is satans kingdome , seeing the world and the church contain all . answ. neither is it true , that if it be a known thing that infants be not of christs visible church , then they are visibly out of it ▪ except it be so known from their sensible action ; nor do the world , taken in the sense opposite to gods people , and the visible church contain all , as mr. b. dictates . mr. b. adds . if it be said , they may be of the invisible church , and yet not of the visible , nor of satans kingdome ; i answer , . it is visibly and not invisibly that the aforesaid distribution is to be understood . . i shall anon prove , that the visible church is wider then the invisible , and that ordinarily we may not judge any to be of the invisible church , who are not of the visible . answ. . how far the former speech is true or false , is shewed before . . as for the later , though we may not judge ord●narily these or those particular persons to be of the invisible church who are not of the visible , yet we may judge some infants at least are so , though non● be of the visible church . again ( saith mr. b. ) it appears that infants generally were of satans kingdome visibly till christ fetcheth them out : therefore those that are not fetcht out are in it still : and no man can say they are fetcht out except by some means or other it be visible or discernable , heb. . · christ destroyed by death him that had the power of death , that is the devil . satan had this power of death visibly over infants as well as others . therfore seeing mr. t. buildeth so much on this apol. p. . that infants are neither in the kingdom of christ , nor satan , visibly till profession , either be must prove that god hath left it wholly in the dark , and not revealed that any infants are of satans v●sible kingdom , or of christs ( the contrary whereof is abundantly proved ) or he must find out some d. kingdom or society , and so find out some d. king b●sides the king of the church , and the prince of this world ; and it 's like he wil bee put to finde out a third place for them hereafter , besides heaven and hell . answ. it is a weariness to the flesh to write books , it is much more when a man is to answer such scriblings as this of mr. b. which being so magnified as it hath been , and written with so much confidence and insolent provocations , is a monument of the boldness and shallowness of readers and writers in this age . what frivolous arguing are here , christ destroyed him that had the power of death , satan had this power of death visibly over infants as well as others , ergo they were of satans kingdom as it is contradistinct to christs visible church till christ by death fetcht them out ? if satans power of death visibly over infants , shew them to be in satans visible kingdome as contradistinct to the visible church , doth not the same prove all the infants of believers to be in satans visible kingdome , as well as the infants of unbelievers ? yea doth it not prove the visible church to be in satans visible kingdome ? for over them satan had this power of death as visibly as over the infants of unbelievers . yea wherein doth the power of death visibly shew a persons being in the visible kingdome of satan more then jobs smiting in his body by satan , or the womans who was a daughter of abraham and bound by satan . years , shewed them to have been then in the visible kingdome of the devil as contradistinct to the visible churth ? besides those that christ is said to have fetcht out or delivered are those who through fear of death were all their life-time sub●ect to bondage , heb. ▪ ● . doth mr. b. interpret this of infants ? besides if it appear that infants generally were of satans kingdome visibly till christ fetcheth them out , therefore those that are not fetcht out are in still : and no man can say they are fetcht out , except by some means or other it be visible or discernable , how can mr. b. say any infants of believers are fetcht out o● satans kingdome visibly ? by what means is it visible or discernable that a believers infant is fetcht out of satans visible kingdome and 〈◊〉 an unbelievers ? christs death was visible it's true , but that either christs death did destroy visibly satan , or visibly delivered those who were subject to bondage , or that by it is visible or discernable that a believers infant and not an unbelievers is fetcht out of satan's visible kingdom , is unknown to me . the ordinary meanes whereby it is visible that a person is fetcht out of satans visible kingdom is in that he hears , obeys , and professeth the gospel . surely by this means or any other it is not visible or discernable , that any infant of the most sincere believer is fetcht out of satans visible kingdome , therefore by mr. bs. own suppositions hee cannot say that any believers infant is fetcht out of the visible kingdome of the devil , and so his argument is retorted on him : that doctrine which leaveth all infants in the visible kingdome of the devil is false : but such is mr. bs. according to his own suppositions . ergo. as for what hee would impose on mee , it is false , that god hath left it in the dark , it is clear as light at noon , that infants are neither in christs nor satans visible kingdome , and yet they have christ or satan for their ●ing , and are to bee in heaven or hell , as they are elect or reprobate ; and therefore his talk of what i must finde out is but his prattle , and of what hee hath abundantly proved , is but his idle vapouring of himself . . saith hee , sure the apostle calls the world [ them that are without ] as distinct from the church visible , who are within , col. . . thes. . . and hee speaks it as the dreadfull misery of them , those that are without god judgeth , cor. . , . now infants are either within or without , and to bee without is to bee of the world which the devil is by christ said to be prince of . answ. to bee without mark . . is to bee without , not within gods election ; to bee without revel . . . is to bee without the gates of the city the new hierusalem , which i take to bee all one as to be cast into outer darkness as christ terms it . either of these ways all infants are within or without , but [ those without ] in the places cited by mr. b. cannot bee said of infants , for they are not persons towards whom wee are to walk in wisedome , col. . . or honesty , thes. . . this beeing required that our example may not harden them , but it were ridiculous to require this in respect of infants . the apostle doth not speak it as the dreadfull misery of them that are without that god judgeth them cor. . . but onely mentions it as an intimation why they belonged not to his judgement , nor doth hee in any of the places term them the world , who are without the visible church , or christ say that satan is prince of all that are not visible churchmembers , but of the world of reprobates , and such as are contrary to christ and in whom he rules nor is the term [ those that are without ] in any of those places taken for them that are without privatively for want of capacity to understand , profess , and act for christ , but for those who are positively without by the acts of their own will , not receiving christ , nor embracing the profession of him , such as were unbelievers , fornicators , idolaters , &c. cor. . , , . such as could observe and did stumble at the evil practises of the christians , col. . . thes. . . in which sense it is not true that infants are without , though they be privatively or negatively without the visible church . sect . lxxiii . mr. bs. . arg . ch. . that my doctrine leaves no ground of hope of salvation of infants dying , is answered . ch. . mr. b. goes on thus . the th . arg . that doctrine which leaveth us no sound grounded hope of the justification or salvation of any dying infants in the world , is certainly false doctrine . but that doctrine which denieth any infants to bee members of the visible church , doth leave us no sound grounded hope of the justification or salvation of any dying infants in the world ; therefore it is certainly false doctrine . no reasonable temperate christian will deny the major , i think . the minor i know will be passionately denied . mr. t. takes it hainously at mr. m. and mr. bl. that they pinch him a little in this point , as if it were but to raise an odium upon him : and yet when hee hath done all for the mitigation of the odium ( which hee saith was his end apol. pag. . ) yet he doth so little towards the vindication of his doctrine , that hee confesseth [ it suspendeth any judgement of infants , wee can neither s●y they are in ( the covenant of grace ) nor out , apol. pag. . ] hee labours to prove that there is no such promise or covenant in scripture as assures salvation to the infants of believers ; but that god would have us to suspend our judgement of this matter , and rest on the apostles determination rom. . . yet that there is a hope , though not certain , yet probable and comfortable , taken from some general indefinite promises of the favor of god to the parents , and experience that in all ages hoth been had of his merciful dealing with the children of his servants , apol. p. . ] answ. what i took hainously at mr. m. and mr. bl. i did justly ; what i said that there is no such covenant or promise in scripture as assures salvation to the infants of believers , i meant it of them as such , or universally what i said that god would have us to suspend our judgment of this matter , i meant whether this or that particular infant be in the covenant of grace . to mr. bs. arg . i say if his major be meant of such a grounded hope as is certain from faith , believing a particular promise of god concerning believers infants dying in infancy ( as mr. b. seems to understand it ) i deny the major , if very probable and likely from such declarations and promises and experiments as we have , i deny the minor , and shall follow mr. b. i will first , saith he , prosecute my argument and then consider of these words ▪ understand therefore that . i do not charge their doctrine with a positive affirmation , that all infants do certainly perish ; but with the taking away of all positive christian well grounded hope of their salvation . answ. yet by your charging us with this , that by our doctrine they are not so much as seemingly in a state of salvation , you do charge our doctrine with a positive affirmation that they all certainly perish . and it will appear by that which follows that with you no hope of their salvation is christian and well grounded , but what is cer●ain upon a promise of god apprehended by faith , in which is the chief difference between us . you add , that the question now is not of particular infants of believers , but of the species or whole sort that so die ; not whether this or that infant be certainly saved , or we have any such hope of it but the question is , whether there be a certainty or any such hope that god will just●fie and save any infants in the world or any infants of helievers at all ? answ between whom the question is , as mr. b here saith , i do not understand : the question between me and my antagonists is not as mr. b. here sets it down . i have always asserted that there is a certainty and hope that god will justifie and save some infants in the world , some infants of believers , and have often acknowledged those that christ prayed for , laying on his hands were elect ones , but the question is whether there be any such promise to a believer and his natural seed w●ich assures salvation to them as the seed of believers , and consequently whether there be a certain hope of the● all dying in their infancy that they shall be saved . this i have denied because i know no such promise in scripture , and if there were it would prove the salvation of those at age though prophane as esau : for if the promise belong to the seed as such , and it includes salvation , then it assures 〈◊〉 all the seed of belie●ers , whether dying at age prophanely or in infancy . so that it is not true , that the question is not whether this or that infant bee certainly saved , or we have any such hope of it , nor is it true that the question is of the species or whole sort that so die , or whether there be a certainty or any such hope that god will justifie and save any infants in the world , or any infants of believers at all , yea mr. b. in the words next before would not charge our doctrine with a positive affirmation that all infants do certainly perish . but the question is whether there be a certainty from a promise that he will save them all dying in infancy , nor is the question of the species or whole sort of infants , but of the particular infants of believers . now , saith he , i affirm ▪ . that there is a ground of christian hope left us in this , that god doth save some infants ( yea and that particular ones , though that be not now the question . answ. now this i affirm too , though i assert not such a certainty by promise to infants of believers , as paedobaptists do . . saith he , that they that put them all out of the visible church leave us no such hope . i will begin with the later , which is the minor in the argument . and . i take it for granted , that to be a visible member of of the church , and to be a member of the visible church , is all one . he that denieth that , will but shew his vanity ; and that the invisible church , or the sincere part is most properly and primarily called the church , and the body of christ ; and the church as visible containing also the unsincere part , is called the church ; secondarily and for the sake of the invisible , and so it is called the body , because men seem to be of the invisible church , therefore they truly are of the visible : if we were fully certain by his own external discoveries , that any man were not of the invisible church , that man should not be taken to be of the visible . therefore the properties and priviledges of the invisible church are usually given to the visible ( as to be saints , holy , all the children of god by faith , gal. . . to be christs body , cor. . . to be branches in christ , joh . , &c. because as the sincere are among them , so all visible members seem in the essentials of christianity to be sincere ; therefore if any converted jew or pagan were to be taken into the church upon his pr●fession , we ought not to admit him except his profession seem to be serious and so sincers ; for who durst admit him , if we knew he came but in jest , or to make a scorn of christ and baptism ? so that to be a member of the visible church , or of the church as visible , or a visible member of the church are all one , and is no more but to seem to be a true member of the church of christ ( commonly called invisible ) or of the true mystical body of christ. therefore even cardinal cusanus calleth the visible church , ecclesia conjecturalis , as receiving its members on conjectural signs . and our divines generally make the unsound hypocrites to be but to the church as a wooden leg to the body ▪ or at the best as the hair and nails , &c. and as the straw and chaff to the corn : and so doth bellarmine himself , and even many other whom he citeth of the papists ( aquinas , petr. a soto , joh. de turrecremata , hugo , alex ▪ alensis , canus . ) and when bellarmine feigneth calvin and others to make two militant churches , our divines reject it as a calumny and manifest fiction ; and say , that the church is not divided into two sorts , but it is a two fold respect of one and the same church ; one as to the internal essence , the other a● to the external manner of existing as ames . speaks . answ. though much of this passage be yeelded by me , yet i reject those speeches [ because men seem to be of the invisible church , therefore they truly are of the visible ; to be a visible member of the church is no more but to seem to be a true member of the church of christ ( commonly called the invisible ) of the true mystical body of christ ] for to be a visible member of the christian church is not all one as to seem to be of the invisible church . for , . a person may be of the visible church , according to mr. b. who lives alone in america , and therefore seems to no man to be of the invisible church , no man knoweth or judgeth probably or certainly him to be of christs mystical body . . a person may seem to be of the invisible church , and yet not be of the visible , as an indian while a christian preacheth , who yet professeth not christ , yet seems by his gestures to be affected with it , and sundry others . therefore it is necessary to be a visible churchmember , that his profession be visible , that is , be discernable to mens understanding through the sensibility of it . . to some a person may seem to be of the invisible church , to others not , is he of the visible church or not ? or are both true ? and if no● , how shall we know which is true , which not ? . to seem to be of 〈◊〉 invisible church is but accidental to the visibility of a churchmember , though he should seem to none to be of the invisible church , yea though through mens ignorance or uncharitableness the person should seem to be a reprobate or hypocrite , yet he might be nevertheleless a visible christian , and so a churchmember of the catholick visible , which mr. b. avoucheth . mr. bs. reasons here go upon a gross mistake , as if it were all one to be a visible churchmember , and to be received or admitted as a visible churchmember : and that a person were denominated visible from what men apprehend or what seems to them , whereas the denomination is , as ames saith truly in the place meant by mr. b. from the external form or manner of existing . though a person be not to be received as a visible member of the church because he seems not to be found , yet he may be a visible churchmember : nor is he such because they pass a judgement on him , but because his profession is such as might shew him to be a christian , if any did observe it , or would candidly interpret it . but how far mr. b. errs from the true understanding of the main point of his book , what it is to be a visible churchmember , sometimes making it the same with a seeming to be of the mystical body of christ , sometimes a right to a benefit , and how indistinctly he speaks of this thing ( which if he had minded any exact disquisition of truth , he should in the beginning of his dispute have first cleared ) is shewed in the second part of this review , sect . . at large pag. , &c. in this part , sect . , &c. and for want of observing this his mistake , i judge many learned men and others have been misled by him . he saith , again , you must understand , that to be a member of the visible church is not to be a member of any particular or political body or society , as rome would have it . and to be a visible member , doth not necessarily import that he is actually knowne to bee a member ; for hee may live among the blinde that cannot see that which is visible . but that he is one so qualified , as that hee ought to bee esteemed in the judgement of men to belong to the church of christ : therefore a man living alone in america , may yet bee a member of the visible church . for hee hath that which constituteth him a visible member , though there bee none to discern it . answ. . this passage doth overthrow mr. bs. definition of a visible churchmember , which is , that he is one that seems to the judgement of man to be of the invisible church : now he that seems such , is actually known or discerned to be such ; that seems so , which is thought to be so ; videtur quod sic , videtur quod non , in the schools are express●ons of a mans opinion ; but according to mr. b. to be a visible church-member doth not necessarily import he is actually known or discerned , therefore he may be a visible churchmember who doth not seem to the judgement of man to be of the invisible church , and then the definition is not right , as not agreeing to every thing defined . . his speeches he may live among the blind who cannot see that which is visible , that he is one qualified so as that he ought to be esteemed in the judgement of men to belong to the church of christ , a man living alone in america hath that which constituteth him a visible member though there be none to discern it , do plainly intimate that visible churchmembership is constituted by some qualification which is visible , so that he ought thereupon to be esteemed in the judgement of men to belong to the church of christ therefore visible churchmembership is from some qualification sensible , and is before the esteem in the judgement of men to belong to the church of christ ; and though such esteem should not follow , yet the person is a visible churchmember : and therefore mr. b. doth most unskilfully define a visible churchmember to be one that seems , or is esteemed to be of the invisible church . for though this be , and ought to be a consequent upon the other , yet it is not the same ; but as i have shewed , even according to mr. b. they may be severed . and if that which constituteth a visible churchmember be a qualification visible , so as that he ought to be esteemed in the judgement of men to belong to the church of christ ( which can be no other then his serious , sober , free , and intelligent profession of the faith of christ ) then my description of a visible churchmember is right , and infants that have no such qualification are not visible churchmembers . to say that their parents are visible professors , is insufficient : for there is no scripture that makes the profession of the parent the childs qualification , nor any scripture that for it makes it our duty to esteem him in our judgement to belong to the church of christ ; nor is the pa●ents profession any qualification of the child visible , neither is the relation of the child visible or sensible . ( for relations , say logicians , incur not into the sense ) nor is the fathers profession any more his own childes profession then any other mans childes profession . so that mr. bs. own words beeing well heeded , overthrow his tenet and confirm mine . i go after him in the rest . these things , saith he , explained , i proceed , and prove my minor thus . they that are not so much as seemingly ( or visibly ) in a state of salvation , of them so dying we can have no true ground of christian hope that they shall be saved : but they that are not so much as seemingly or visibly of the church , they are not so much as seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation : therefore of them so dying , we can have no true ground of christian hope that they shall bee saved . answ. . mr. b. makes here seemingly and visibly in a state of salvation , of the church to be all one , whereas there is a great difference , seemingly being in order to the understanding , visibly to the sense , he may be seemingly in the state of salvation , and of the church , who is not so visibly , there being many arguments which may make a thing seem to the understanding , besides that which is discernable by the outward sense . therefore if mr. b. mean by seemingly all one with visibly ( as his words import ) i deny his major as false ; and to the contrary assert , that we may have true ground of christian hope that they shall be saved , who yet die not visibly in a state of salvation , that is , do not any thing incurrent into the sense which may shew they are in a state of salvation , as infants born , abortives , still-born , children dying in the womb , natural fools , phrenetiques : yea we conceive hopes of the salvation of persons dying raving , cursing by reason of their disease , destroying themselves , dying excommunicate justly from the church , though visibly they are in a state of damnation ▪ the minor is also false , they that are not visibly of the church , may yet be visibly in a state of salvation , as an indian yet not professing christ , nor baptized , being affected with the preaching of christs love to man , so as to lift up his eys to heaven , knock his brest , listen to the preacher , weep , kiss the preacher , follow him , keep company with him , &c. this man is not yet visibly of the church , yet he is visibly in a state of salvation , and so dying we have ground of christian hope that he shall be saved . but mr. b. tels us , the major is evident ; and confirmed thus : . sound hope is guided by judgement , and that judgement must have some evidence to proceed on : but where there is not so much as a seeming or visibility , there is no evidence ; and therefore there can be no right judgement , and so no grounded hope . answ. . mr. b. doth still unskilfully put seeming for seemingness , and confound it and visibility . . where there is no seeming , there may be evidence ; he should rather have said , where there is no seeming , there is no judgement ; for where nothing seems to a person , he passeth no judgement or opinion . . i presume mr. b. takes evidence largely for any argument which shews a thing and not in that strict sense in which it is denied by learned men that faith hath evidence , and in the large sense there may be and is in innumerable things evidence in which is no visibility , as that corn will be sown and reaped though we see it not ▪ &c. and in this present argument , mr. b. himself a little after reckons up many reasons besides visibility of the state of salvation , and of the church , which he makes evidence for a judgement upon which there is a grounded hope of infants salvation , p●g . , . as gods declarations , promises , &c. and therefore i deny that speech ▪ where there is not so much as visibility there is no evidence . . saith he , again , to judge a thing to be what it doth not any way seem or appear to be , is ( likely actually , but alway ) virtually and interpretatively a false judgement : but such a judgement can be no ground for sound hope . answ. yet a man may truly judge that to be which doth not visibly appear to be . . saith he , the minor is as evident , viz. [ that they that are not seemingly or visibly of the church , are not seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation . ] for . if they that are not of the true church are not in a state of salvation , then they that seem not to be of that church do not so much as seem to be in a state of salvation : but the antecedent is true ; therefore the consequent the antecedent might be proved from a hundred texts of scripture . it is the body that christ is the saviour of , and his people that he redeemeth from their sins , and his sheep to whom he giveth eternal life , and those that sleep in jesus that god shall bring with him , and the dead in christ that shall rise to salvation , and those that die in the lord that rest from their labours , and the church that christ will preserve pure and unspotted , &c. he that denieth this , is scarse to be disputed with as a christian : even they that thought all should at last be brought out of hell and saved , did think they should become the church , and so be saved . the consequence is beyond questioning . answ. . seemingly and visibly are still mis confounded by mr. b. . if the antecedent bee meant of the visible church ( of which alone the conclusion is to bee ) then it is denied , and the proofs are all impertinent sith they speak not of the visible church as visible , but of the invisible . . saith hee , i next argue thus : if there bee no sure ground for faith concerning the salvation of any out of the church , then there ● no sure ground of hope ( for faith and hope are conjunct ; wee may not hope with a christian hope for that wee may not believe ) but there is no sure ground for such faith : ( they that say there is let them shew it if they can ) therefore there is no sure ground of hope . answ. . mr. b. doth ill to change the term [ well grounded hope ] in his first syllogism , into [ a sure ground of hope . ] for there may bee a well grounded hope of many things , as that god will deliver from death in a battle , provide in a siege bread , &c. though there bee no sure ground of hope cui f●ls●m subesse non potest , that god will do these things . . wee have sure ground for faith concerning the salvation of some out of the visible church , though not of all infants of believers . and this wee have from gods declaration of the election of some not visible churchmembers and consequently of their salvation , as isaac and jacob. rom. . , , , , . which is urged by mr. b. himself pag. . . saith he , again , if there be no promise in gods word for the salvation of any without the visible church , then there is no ground of our christian hope that they shall be saved : but there is no such promise ( as i think they will confess ) therefore there is no ground for any such hope . that christian hope must rest upon a word of promise , mee thinks should not bee denied : it is plain rom. . , . ephes. . . & . . col. . , , . thes. . . tim. . ▪ heb. . , . heb. . . pet. . , . & . . rom. . . & . . tit. . , . heb . , &c. ps. . , , , &c. in natural things wee may have a common natural hope upon natural grounds ▪ but in supernatural things , as are justification and salvation , we must have the ground of a divine revelation to support all true christian theological hope . answ. . i deny the consequence of the major , and to mr. bs. proofs i answer : . there is not one of all the texts that saith there is no ground of true christian hope but a promise in gods word , though there are that prove the promise of god to bee a ground of christian hope : it would bee too tedious to shew the impertinency of each of them , it is sufficient to acquaint the reader wherein the defect of proof is . . wee may have the ground of a divine revelation to support our hope , as of what god hath done , of his attributes and other declarations , although we have not a promise , which mr. b. seems too unskilfully to confound with a divine revelation which may bee the ground of christian hope . . the minor is not confessed by me to isaac and jacob god promised salvation afore they were born , therefore to them without the visible church , the like to the gentiles , to the jews , rom. . . afore they are called , or in being : to all the elect there is a covenant or promise in christ of salvation , whether they be of the visible church or not . . saith he , again , if god do add to the church such as shall bee saved , then we can have no true ground of christian hope of the salvation of any that are not added to the church : but that god doth add to the church such as shall be saved , is the plain words of scripture , acts . last . therefore we have no true ground of such hope of the salvation of those that are not so added to it . if any say that the text speaks of the invisible church . i answer : . then it would hold of the visible much more for the visible church is far larger then the invisible , and contain the invi●●ble in it . . but the text expresly speaks of the visible church : for it was such a church . . as were baptised . . and as the . souls were in one day added to ; . and as continued in the apostles doctrine , fellowship , breaking of bread , and prayers ; . and were together and had all things common ; . and sold their possessions and goods , and parted them to them that needed ; . and continued daily in the temple , and breaking bread from house to house did eat with gladness , &c. . and as did praise god and had favour with all the people . and doubtless this was the visible church : to this such as should bee saved were added ; yet not onely such : for many false teachers and others did after go out from them ; and such as simon magus were baptised ; and false brethren was one cause of their sufferings . so that i doubt not but it is clear , that they that deny any infants to be members of the visible church , do leave us no true ground for any christian hope of their salvation . answ. the consequence of the major is denied , and the reason of the denial is because the speech is not simply convertible , hee added to the church such as should bee saved , therefore all that shall bee saved are added to the visible church . yea mr. b. by confessing that they were not onely the saved that were added to the church acknowledgeth the proposition to bee particular , some were added to the church which should bee saved , and this is convertible onely thus ; ergo some that shall bee saved were added to the church , not universal , all that were added to the church should bee saved . so that wee need not betake our selves to the answer of understanding it of the invisible church . nor is there a necessity to understand it of eternal salvation . for the word being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the present tense may bee translated the saved , that is as v. . by relinquishing of that crooked or perverse generation , and if beza's conjecture hold that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the reading is to be , and some hee daily added to the church to bee saved . let the reading bee either way , it proves not that there are none to bee saved who are not added to the church visible . and indeed such a proposition were false , sith it is otherwise in the case of infants dying in the womb , still born , &c. mr. bs. inference , if acts . . bee meant of the church invisible then the speech , they that are to be saved are added to the church holds much more of the visible , is vain . and the reason is as vain . for it is uncertain whether the visible church be far larger then the invisible , considering the number of dying infants and the uncertainty how far their election and salvation extends , and though there bee many of the visible church who are not of the invisible , yet the visible doth not contain the invisible in it , there being many of the invisible church who are not in the visible , and therefore it proves not that if they that are saved are of the invisible then they are much more of the visible . so that however it bee that mr. b. doubt not of the contrary , i am assured that the denying infants visible churchmembership , leaves sufficient ground for christian hope of their salvation . next , saith hee , let us consider how far their own arguments will exclude all hope of the salvation of any infan● . if it were true which mr. t. so much standeth on , that the onely way now appointed by christ to make churchmembers , is by teaching the persons themselves ; and that none else may bee members of the visible church , but those that have learnt : then . it will much more follow that they are not of the invisible , as i have shewed ; or at least wee are not to judge them to be of the invisible church at all . . and if from matth. . . they may argue , that none but those that are taught are disciples and are to bee baptised ; why may they not as well argue from mar. . . [ whosoever believeth not shall bee damned ] that all infants are certainly damned ? wherein lieth the difference in these two arguments ? sure the later seems to mee to have more shew from scripture though but little : i dare invite mr. t. to prove to mee from scripture that any infants in the world are justified and sanctified , and try if i shall not in the same way prove that some infants are members of the visible church ? or let him answer the argument from mar. . . that is brought for their damnation , and see if it will not afford him also an answer to that from matt. . against their being disciples and to bee baptised . answ. . he hath no where made good this consequence , if infants be not of the visible church , it will follow much more they are not of the invisible , or at least that wee are not to judge them to bee of the inv●sible church at all . . it doth not follow whosoever believeth not shall bee damned therefore infants , because the text it self shews the speech to bee limited onely to those unbelievers to whom the gospel is preached , v. . yet it followes none are disciples and to bee baptised but the taught , matth. . , ● . because christ first appointed persons to bee taught by preaching the gospel , whom hee appointed to bee baptised and ●ccounted disciples . . let mr. b. take these arguments and try whether hee can prove infants visible churchmembership from them . they of whom is the kingdome of heaven are justified and sanctified . but of some infants is the kingdome of heaven , ergo. they who are elected to life , for whom christ died , are justified and sanctified are they die . but so some are infants , ergo. . the argument is answered from mark . . let m. b. try how he can answer mine from matth. . , . mark . , . &c. as it is in the second part of this review , sect . , &c. or as it is in my praecursor , sect . . pag. . out of his words , which is shewed in the d. part of the review , sect . . pag. , . not to be answered by him in his praefestinantis morator . hee that nullifi●s that argument must make reformation of humane additions to the worship of god as part of it void . mr. b. adds , but why do i expect th●● when hee suspendeth his judgement ? if hee mean it of particular infants , it is not home to the question ; for so hee must sus●end his ●udgement concerning the salvation of every particular person , as certain , seeing hee is uncertain of the sincerity of any : and yet i hope he will not conclude it uncertain whether any man hee saved ? but if hee mean it of all the species of infants , then i must say he suspendeth much of his faith , hope and charity ; and that doctrine which suspendeth our belief of god and charity to our own children , shall be none of my creed . answ. the suspension of judgement which in my postscript sect . . i said god would we should have , was concerning the certainty of salvation of all infants of believers dying in infancy , which was meant of particular infants , to wit the infants of believers , and it was home to the question between me , and mr. m. and mr. bl. whether there were such a certainty of salvation of every believers infant dying so , by vertue of the promise i will be thy god and the god of thy seed gen . ? there was no such question as mr. b. would impose on mee , as if i doubted whether any infant should bee saved ? but this i did and do still conceive , that there is no promise of salvation to every believers infants , and therefore we are to suspend our judgement concerning this or that particular infant , not of all the species of infants as hee speaks . and though i am certain of every believers salvation , yet i am not certain of this or that professour that he is a sincere believer , and therefore concerning this i am to suspend any peremptory judgment of science , yet i am not to suspend my judgment of charity , which yet i am to suspend towards infants , there being no actions of theirs which may occasion such a judgment . nor hereby do i suspend any act of faith , hope or charity which i ought to have towards god or my own children ; and if what i hold be no part of mr. bs. creed , yet it may be part of the creed of as holy and learned a man as he is . hee adds , and where hee thinks wee must take up with that rom. . . hee will have mercy on whom hee will have mercy . i answer : . this is no other ground of hope , then of any heathen in america wee may entertain . . it is no ground of hope for infants at all : for it neither directly nor indirectly promises any mercy to them , nor saith any more of mer●y then of hardning : and rather would afford such disputers an argument against mercy to any infants , because it is mercy put in opposition to hardning , which infants in that sense are not capable of . answ. i said god would have us to rest on the apostles determination rom. . . to wit concerning the salvation of all believers infants , and to this i was induced by the apostles arguing , v. , , . concerning jacob and esau. but this was not alledged by me as a ground of hope , and therefore though mr. bs. consequences be granted , there is nothing against what i said : which i think very agreeable with the words of wickliff , cited as an approved speech by mr. b. himself , p. . which if he like , he cannot gainsay my speech . but he saith , yet mr. t. tels us [ there is hope for all this , though not certain , yet probable and comfortable ] and he sheweth us three grounds for it : if this be spoken of the species of infants , as if there were no certainty , but a probability that any of them shall be saved , then i will prove it false and vile anon : if it be spoken of particular individual infants , then . it is as much as can be said of any men at age ; for no other man hath any certain , but a probable hope of their salvation . answ. i have often said , i mean it not of the species , but the individual infants of believers , and i appeal to mr. b. himself whether he do not say as i say , plain scripture , &c. pag . in those words : though yet for my own opinion , i have resolved no further then this , that we are to judge the remission , justification , and salvation of particular infants of true believers mo●● probable , till the contrary appear by them ; and for the full certainty , i leave it as to me uncertain . if we have but a probable hope of the salvation of men at age , it is no absurdity , in my apprehension , to say we have but probable hope of their salvation ; yet we have a greater degree of probability in our hopes of the salvation of such as have in appearance spent their lives in a holy course , then of infants so dying . . saith he , it is as much as i desire ; for if their salvation be probable , then they are visibly or seemingly , or to our judgement in a state of salvation , and so must needs be visible members of the church . how dare mr. t. refuse to take those for visible churchmembers , whose salvation is probable , when he hath no more but probability of the salvation of the best man in the world . answ. . i have often told mr. b. that to be seemingly , or to our judgement in a state of salvation , is not all one as to be such visibly , and that such may be no visible churchmembers whose salvation is seeming or probable to our judgement . . though i have but probability of the salvation of the best man in the world , yet i have a certainty of his profession , by which i take him to be a visible churchmember , and not by the probability of his salvation ; and this i dare do , and i wonder how mr. b. against the current of all the n. t. dare do otherwise . . but , saith he , doth not this contradict what went before ? and i wish he do not contradict it again in his proofs . his first proof of the probability , is from some general indefinite promises ; but what these promises are , he tels us , apol. pag. . by general and indefinite promises be means such as determine not the kinde of good promised , nor the particular person ; and therefore are true , if performed to any person in any sort of good ; and conditional upon condition of faith and obedience . answ. . if it determine not the kind of good formally nor virtually , nor contain it generically ; then how doth it make it probable ? . and if it neither determine the person , nor give 〈◊〉 ground to determine , how then doth it become probable to that person ? . and how then can that promise give hopes to the faithfull of the salvation of their infants , which is verified , if performed to any person in any sort of good ? as if it were but to one infant in a nation in reprieving him a day from damnation ? if it intend more then this , then it is not verified or fulfilled in this much ; if it intend no more , then how doth it make their salvation probable ? . and sure the conditional promises which he mentioneth , requiring faith and repentance , are little to the benefit of infants , if these conditions are required of themselves in their infancy . and for his other two grounds of hope , viz. the favour of god to the parents , and experience , they are comfortable helps to second the promise ; but of themselves without a word , would give us no ground of christian hope in such matters as justification and salvation are . answ. i perceive no contradiction in my words . . by putting in those words [ nor contain it generically ] he intimates as if i had denied the promises i mention to contain generically the good of justification and salvation ; whereas i termed the promises expresly general , and cited psal. . , . psal. . ● , &c. which mention gods righteousness and blessedness , and so may comprehend eternal righteousness and blessedness , and thereby the justification and salvation of infants becomes probable , though it be not certain , sith gods righteousness and blessedness may be conferred in another kind . as if a rich king promise money to a mans children , it 's probable he will give them gold , thou●h it be not certain . . though the particular person be not determined , yet sith the qualification of the person is expressed to be the generation of the righteous , it is probable that it is meant of each ▪ till the contrary appears ; as if a man promise to make such a mans children heirs , this is probable of every one till it appear otherwise , and yet not certain . . i have shewed how , especially if we consider that favours are wont to be amplified to the most . though gods intentions are not fulfilled perhaps with so litle , yet the words may be verified if no more but temporal blessedness be given . . the conditional promises i confess give us but slender hope of infants by themselves ; yet with general indefinite promises , declarations of gods favour to his people , and experience , they yeeld a strong ground of hope of the justification and salvation of infants of believers , though not certain and sure , as mr. b. would have , but how short he is in proof will appear in that which followes . sect . lxxiiii . mr. bs. allegations , p. , , . shew not a stronger ground of hope of infants salvation , so dying , then mine : his d . arg. ch . . his th . ch . . are answered . he tels us , that he hath a stronger probabilty then i mention , of the salvation of all the infants of the faithfull , so dying , and a certainty of the salvation of some , in that god admitted them visible members of his church . for christ is the saviour of his body , and he present his church clensed and unspotted to the father : and if god will have them to be visible members of his church , then he would have us take or judge them to be members of it : and withal , there is less danger of mistake in them , then in men at years ; because they do not dissemble , nor hide any hypocritical intents under the vizor of profession , as they may do . and it is certain also , that if god would have some and many to be of the true body of christ , and so be saved , then hee would not have all to bee visibly out of that body . that he would have have them churchmembers is proved , and shall be , god willing , yet more . if god add to the church such as shall be saved , then there is a strong probability of their salvation whom he addeth to the church . answ. mr. b. here , p. . in his arguments d . and d. intimated that he asserted a sure ground for faith concerning the salvation of believers infants so dying , and that to be a promise in the word of the salvation of those within the visible church ; and here he asserts a stronger probability then i mention of the salvation of all the infants of the faithfull so dying , and a certainty of the salvation of some , in that god admitteth them visible members of his church . yet pag. . he dares not say there 's a full certainty of the salvation of all believers infants so dying : yea , pag. . he saith , rom. . . the apostle pleadeth that salvation is not by the covenant tyed to all abrahams seed . out of which i infer , . that mr. b. hath no sure ground for faith , to wit , a promise in the word concerning the salvation of all the infants of believers so dying . for the apostle pleads , that salvation is not by covenant tied to all abrahams seed , and if not to abrahams , then to none else ; and the certainty of the salvation of some is acknowledged by me as well as by him . and sure if the covenant assure not salvation to all , and neither it nor any other revelation of god tell us salvation belongs to this infant of such a believer or to that , there is no certainty concerning the salvation of this or that particular infant of a believer dying , nor is there a sure ground for faith concerning it , nor is the hope of it certain , and we are to suspend our judgement concerning it , which mr. b. carp● at so much in me to make me and the truth i hold odious , which is almost all the work he does ( for he proves nothing he says in opposition to what i hold ) and though his speeches are inconsistent , yet when he sets down his opinion he agrees with me , that he dares not say there 's a full certainty of the salvation of all believers infants ; nor dare he i think say , that he is certain of any one believer on earth his infant dying , that he is saved . . that he hath a stronger probability then i mention of the salvation of all the infants of believers so dying , in that god admitteth them visible members of his church , is said by him : but . he shews not what degree of probability i deny which he asserts : . i never opposed the strongest probability mr. b. asserts , onely i declared my self unsatisfied concerning the certainty , which mr. b. dares not assert : . that god hath admi●ted them visible members of his church christian , is not yet proved by mr. b. nor ever will be : . if he had , yet this proves the certainty of the salvation of none now existent ; for the speeches , ephes. . , . must be understood of the church which is so visible , that it be also the invisible . now though it be certain , that some visible churchmembers are saved ▪ yet it is neither certain that all , or any visible churchmembers or churches now existent shall be saved , and therefore no more then a probability of the salvation of all or some infants of believers now existent can be inferred , though their visible churchmembership were granted . as for the strength of the probability , i stick not to grant it as strong as he would have it , so that he assert not a certainty . and therefore , did not mr. b. mind to pick a quarrel with me , and to affright people from my doctrine , this chapter of mr. b. might have been spared . yet mr. b. adds . and the promises to them are fuller then mr. t. expresseth , and give us stronger ground of hope . . god hath , as i have proved , assured that he will be mercifull to them in the general , and that in opposition to the seed of the wicked , on whom he will visit their fathers sins : now this giveth a strong ground of hope that he will save them . for if the judge or king say , i will hang such a traytor , but i will be mercifull to such a one , it is an intimation that he meaneth not to hang him . if your friend promise to be good to you and mercifull , you dare confidently hope he means not to destroy you . answ. this proves not gods promises any fuller then i express , for those i alledge not excluding but including in an &c. this , are as full as this , exod. . . nor doth this give a stronger ground of hope then i do , who yeeld as much as mr. b. infers , though i like not mr. bs. instance , which intimates that god should say , i will damn the children of the wicked to the d. and th . generation , v. . and save the children of them that love me to a thousand generations . he adds . . god saith ( as i have shewed ) that the seed of the righteous is blessed . now is not that a strong ground of hope , that so dying , they shall not be damned ? it is not likely that god would call them blessed whom he will damn eternally , after a few days or hours life in a state of infancy , which is capable of litle sense of blessedness here . answ. what mercy is meant , exod. . . and what blessedness , psal . . hath been considered before , and thence it may appear , that a certainty of salvation to all infants of believers , or to any definitely now existent cannot bee inferred . yet i oppose not the inferring thence a strong ground of hope . nevertheless that god should call them blessed in a sort and yet damn them , is no inconsistency , nor doth it appear much less likely then that hee should reprobate esau afore hee was born or had done good or evil , rom. . , , . . god ( saith mr. b. ) entreth covenant to be their god , and to take them for a peculiar people to himself , deut. . , , . and this giveth strong hope of their salvation . for as if the ●ing promise to bee your king , and to take you for his s●bject , it is likely hee intends all the benefits of kingly government to you : or if a man promise a woman to bee her husband , it is likely that hee intendeth to do the office of a husband : and so when god promiseth to be their god. answ. though i yeild that there is ground for a strong hope o● the salvation of infants of christian believers so dying , yet in the text cited there is nothing to that purpose . for . that covenant was made on●ly with the people of israel , and was a peculiar covenant with that nation . . for the covenant was of gods being god to them while they owned him , and kept his commandments and so w●s conditional . so that thi● covenant is not a covenant with every believer and his issue , nor did gods promise to bee their god assure the salvation of all the israelites infants so dying , much less the salvation of infants of christian believers , to whom all the promises in the new covenant are personal , none that i remember national or domestical as were to the jews . . saith hee , and paul thes. . . would not have the faithfull mourn for the dead as those that are without hope : now what dead are these ? and what hope is it ? . hee saith the dead in general , which will not stand with the exclusion of the whole species of infants . . hee speaks of those dead for whom they were apt to mourn . and will not parents mourn for their children ? and for hope , it is evidently the hope of resurrection to life . for resurrection to damnation is not a thing to be hoped for . this seems plain to me . answ. ●hough i oppose not a strong hope of the salvation of believers infants so dying , yet to shew how vainly he talks of his shewing more for it then i do , the reader may take notice , that if the apostle be interpreted of the hope of the resurrection to life of the dead in general and those they were apt to mourn for , as mr. bs. arguing intimates his mind to be , then the apostle would have them hope for the resurrection to life not onely of the infants of believers so dying , but also of their ripe aged children though infidels and profane , yea for their wives , kindred , neighbours , servants ; whereas the apostles speech is plainly meant onely of them that are believers , who as they are said v. ● . to sleep so v. . to sleep in jesus , whom god will bring with jesus , v. . dead in christ , that is for christ ▪ ● . m. mede conceivs , applying at peculiarly to the martyrs , or as most 〈◊〉 faith of christ , such as shall be for ever with the lord , v. . from 〈…〉 with many other instances in his writings it may appear how 〈…〉 superficially mr. b. opens and infers from texts of scrip●u● . saith mr. b. david comforteth himself concerning his dead child , because hee should go to the child , but the child should not return to him . to say that this was onely that hee should bee buried with it , is to make david too like a pagan rather then a christian : however it seems hee was confident that he should not bee damned : or else hee would not say , i shall go to him . and to say david knew his salvation as a prophet , is a groundless fiction that cannot be proved : prophets knew not all things , not ordinarily things of another world by such revelation . therefore what ever ground of hope david had , other faithfull parents have the like . answ . that david in those words sam. . , . did express any ground of hope of the salvation of his child , and that thereby hee comforted himself concerning his dead childe , is more then i think can bee evinced from the text . rendering a reason of his not fasting any longer , hee doth not alledge any thing concerning the happiness of the childe , but the bootlesness of h●s praying and fasting sith the childes life could not bee recovered . and the whole speech considered , the words import no more then this , can i bring him back again to life ? i shall go to him , that is to the state of the dead , as counterfeit samuel is brought in , saying sam. . . to morrow thou shalt bee with mee , that is dead as i am , and as jacob said gen. . . hee should go down to his sonne into the grave , or state of the dead . and in these speeches though no more were meant , yet there is nothing that relisheth of paganism , not so much as other speeches seem to do , psal. . . psal. . . isai. . , . job , , , , , . for though they the express not the expectation of the resurrection or the present estate of happiness , yet it was not because they believed it not , but because it was sufficient to give a reason of his present action , in which hee gives first an account of what hee did before , hee fasted and wept while the childe was alive , for hee said , who can tell whether god will bee gracious to mee that the childe may live ? in which words if wee may argue after mr. bs. mode , wee may as well say hee was too like a pagan rather then a christian , sith hee mentions no prayer for his childes happiness , but his natural life . . an account of his not fasting , because god had frustrated the end of his prayer and fasting . and yet in both hee shewed ▪ faith in god , in his prayer acknowledging god the authour of life and death , and in the other the sentence of death passed on himself , and his acquiescence in gods will concerning both . all which hee understood as one acquainted with god and his word . so that wee need not assert that david knew the happiness of his childe by special revelation , sith hee expresseth not any thing of it . and if hee did , yet hee might speak this not as an assured thing , but as probably hoped for , and yet not upon common grounds to all believers , but out of special favour to him ( of which hee had more then common experience ) and gods wont of hearing his prayers . so that yet mr. b. hath brought no stronger grounds of probability of the salvation of all believers infants so dying , then i have done notwithstanding his cracks . let 's view the rest . . saith hee , again , if there were not farre more hope of their salvation , then fear of their damnation ; it would never bee said , that children are an heritage of the lord ▪ and the fruit of the womb is his reward ; and the man blessed that hath his quiver full of them , psal. . , , . answ. . mr. b. pretended to shew a stronger probability of the salvation of the infants of believers then i have done , but wherein do●h hee exceed mee in his assertion in this place or his proof ? did i ever say there is less hope of their salvation , then fear of their damnation ? if i did not , why doth hee suggest as if in this conclusion hee asserted more then i do ? if i have said so , let him shew it , or else let him bee taken for what hee is , a calumniator . . for his proof , would any man alledge this text to prove more hope of salvation of infants of believers then their damnation , if hee had any heed to what hee writes ? when the text expresly makes the blessedness of the man hath many children to bee not at all in this place , in reference to hope of the salvation of the children ▪ but in reference to his own safety and protection by his children , who may oppose enemies , and bee as arrowes or weapons to drive them back , or as helps to right his wrongs , and to embolden him to contend with them in the gate , which was counted a great blessing then , and agreeable to the promises of the legal covenant , as deut. . psal. . , , &c. may bee seen . but this is not meant of infants but of such as were grown up and able to defend their parents , and chiefly if not onely of males , nor is the man said to bee blessed by reason of the goodliness of them , but the multitude of them , and they are said to bee an heritage as the land of canaan , psal. ● . , . and his reward whether for their observing his law , or for other reason , such as for which nebuchadnezzar was rewarded with egypt , ezek. . , , . or as psal. . , . or as reward taken catachrestically for any gift . bee it meant of true believers ( though no words in the text evince it ) yet the children are said to be their heritage and reward not gods heritage , nor is there any intimation of happiness to the childe , and therefore not a word intimating more hope o● their salvation then fear of their damnation , but of outward benefit to the parent such as may bee common to infidels with believers , and consequently not a word for a strong ground of hope of the salvation of believers infants so dying , much l●ss more then i bring to that purpose . . saith mr. b. and why should children be joyned in standing church ordinances , as prayer , fasting , &c. if there were not strong hope of the blessing of these ordinances to them ? chron. . . the children that suck the breast were to bee gathered to the solemn fast , joel , . ( this will prove them also standing churchmembers , seeing they must joyn in standing ordinances ; ) so why received they circumcision ▪ a seal of the righteousness of faith , if there were not strong probability that they had the thing sealed and signified ? god will not fail his own ordinance where men fail not . answ. there 's nothing here endeavoured to bee proved but what i have also granted , that there is a strong probability that infants of believers so dying are justified and saved , and yet i see no strength in these allegations to prove it . for though the little ones and sucking children were to bee present to shew an universal humiliation , as did the beasts also , jonah . . yet the infants did not joyn in prayer , nor was the end of their presence any special blessing of the ordinance to them , but the moving god to spare the whole people , invaded or in danger of perishing by fami●e , nor were the prayer and fasting standing church-ordinances , any more then the covenanting deut. ● . nehem. . but occasional , nor doth this presenting of infants prove them standing church-members any more then the like jonah . proves those infants , or the ninivites beasts standing churchmembers . as for cir●umcision , that infants received circumcision as a seal of the righteousness of faith , is no where in scripture affirmed ; and how much paedobaptists are mistaken in their inference of the nature of sacraments in general , or circumc●si●n in special , from rom : . . hath beene often shewed before sect. , &c. the ends of circumcising of infants , was to distinguish the hebrews from other people , and to fore-signifie from what people christ was to come , and to engage them to observe the law of moses which they were to receive by reason of gods command whether they hoped for their childrens salvation , or not , abraham was to circumcise ishmael , though hee knew hee was not a childe of the promise , and isaac esau , though hee were rejected by god. the speech god will not fail his own ordinance where men fail not , is like the popish schoolmens conceit , that sacraments confer grace where no bar is put , and intimates that circumcision was gods o●dinance to assure at least rigteousness of faith to each infant circumcised , which is a false conceit . . saith mr. b. why else doth god so oft compare his love to that of a mother or father to the childe ? thes. . . num. , . isa. . . ps●l . . . answ. though i grant a strong probality of the salvation of believers infants so dying , yet to shew the vanity of mr. bs. scriblings , as if hee brought more for it then i do , i cannot but observe the slighty dealing of mr. b. in this point . for first , whereas hee alledgeth these texts as if god did therein compare his love to that of a mother or father to the childe , in the first paul ( not god ) compares himself to a nurse ; in the second , moses speaks of himself as if god had put an impossible burthen on him , as if he could as a nursing father bears his sucking childe , carry all that people to the promised land . in the third , god saith he , would not forget sion , who had said hee had forgotten them , though a mother should forget her sucking childe ; and psal. . . the love of god as a father is spoken of them that fear him . so that the two first texts were through heedlesness mis-alledged grosly by him , the other two express gods love onely to his obedient and seeking people , mention nothing of his love to their infants . . god doth compare his love to a fathers or mothers not because he is engaged to believers infants to save them , nor because he hath natural affection as they have , but to shew his gracious care and dealing towards his elect children . . gods love is no more comp●red to a believing parents love , then to an unbelievers ; and therefore if this prove a strong probability of the salvation of a believers infant so dying , it doth prove the salvation of an unbelievers as prob●ble . . gods love and care is compared to an eagles in carrying her young ones , deut. . , . christs to an he● , matth. . . according to mr. bs. reasoning , thi● should prove then the strong probability of t●e salvation of chickens . but i am ashamed that the world should see the nakedness of these magnified reasonings , though i be necessitated to uncover it . the th . from matth. . . is no more then i have alledged often for those infants ; and what mr. b. here alledgeth to prove this a right of other infants , is answered at large in the second part of this review , sect . . . saith he , we read of some that have been sanctified from the womb , and therefore were in a state of salvation ; and jacob was loved before he was born , and therefore before he had done good or evil was in the like state of salvation . answ. have not i also granted this thing , and that upon the same reasons ? why then doth mr. b. suggest , to draw par● is hearts from me to him , as if he said more in this then my self ? yet i cannot be very confident of the reason from jerem . . to which gal. . ● . is parallel , sith the sanctification was to the office of a prophet , which is appliable to infants so dying . . we find promises of salvation to whole housholds , where it is probable there were infants , act. . . answ. . acts . . is no probability that infants should bee meant , sith in the next v. it is said , he spake the word to all that were in his house , which is not to be said of infants ; and v. . he rejoyced with all his house , believing god. . if they should , yet this can be no more then a particular promise to him , unless this were true , that god will save every believer and his house ▪ and mr. b. over l●sheth in saying , we find promises of salvation made to whole housholds ▪ when there is no more but this one . the th . is from cor. . . and it is built on mr. bs. interpretation of [ holy ] as if it noted a separation to god as a peculiar people . but i have fully answered mr ▪ bs. th ▪ ch . and have shewed his mistake in the first part of this review , sect . , &c. and need to answer no more in this place . mr. b. goes on thus . it cannot be said , that these promises are verified according to their sense , if any mercy be given to any infant : here the persons are determined , that is , all the seed of the faithfull ; and we have large ground given probably to conclude , that it is eternal mercy that is intended to all that living to age do not again reject it , but that either at age keep covenant , or die in infancy before they break it . and we have certain ground to conclude , that this salvation belongeth to some infants , and visible churchmembership to all the seed of the faithfull . and i think this is more then mr. t. doth acknowledge them . answ. it is indeed , finding the argumen●s frivolous which mr. b. hath brought for the visible churchmembership of infants , though i acknowledge salvation belongeth to some infants . it is before shewed how the promises may be verified according to the sense of the words if any sort of mercy be given to any children of the faithfull : nor is it true , that in the promises brought by mr. b. the persons are determined to be all the seed of the faithfull , and how the contrary is determined by the apostle , rom. . , . according to mr. b. himself , is shewed before , and what reason there is to understand exod. . . of temporal mercies , is shewed above ; so that here is nothing new to be answered . he adds , if that matth. . . be well considered , it may make another argument full to the point . if little ones have their angels beholding the face of god in heaven , they shall be saved : for that is a mercy proper to the people of god. and that the text speaks of infants , others have fully proved . answ. i grant the conclusion and argument , but deny that it is at all to the point in question between us , and that any one hath proved that by little ones , matth. . . are meant infants . though the contrary be proved concerning matth. . , . in the second part of this review , sect . . where mr. bl. and mr. c. are answered : yet to shew the frovolousness of mr. bs. talk , i add . that matth. . . cannot be expounded one of these little infants ; for such a speech would shew that then there were more little infants before them : but it appears from v. , . there was but one set before them . . from v. , . the little ones were such as christ came to save , and that it was gods will none should perish : but this is true onely of the elect and true believers , not simply of infants as such . . the words following , v. , &c. shew they are meant of a sinning brother , ergo , not of infants . mr. b. adds . that though he dare not say there is a full certainty of the savation of all believers infants so dying , yet he professeth to think it better grounded then mine , who ( he saith ) shut them out of the church . but this i take to be and effect of that antipathy he hath against me , who still chooseth that opinion which is most opposite to me , and prefers it ; as p. . the opinion of the old and new socinians , who take away an ordinance , and whom he censures pag. . as above obedience , and so gods ; and the opinion of baptizers in infancy and at age too , pag. . and professeth he would have nothing to do with me when i offered assistancce to him in another point , as if he were like maldovat the jesuite that could have liked an interpretation had it not been calvins . but i leave him to the lord to judge him and me , and do not despair but that he may yet live to see his errour , and perhaps wish he had been better advised then so disdainfully to have rejected a friends offer . he saith , he would urge another argument here from the universality of redemption , christ dying for all , for every man , for the sins of the whole world , as the scripture speaketh ; but that it would require more time to explain himself in it then he could then spare . however he thinks no man should deny that christ died for every sort of men , and every age , and so for some infants . to which i reply , did he ever hear me deny it ? and if he did not , why doth he talk of proving it here where he disputes against me ? but he is willing to pick what quarrels he can with me . however when he intends to urge this argument , i hope i shall be provided to answer it , if it oppose my thesis . that the scripture saith christ died for every man , for the sins of the whole world , is more then i find : if i mistake him not , his universal redemption he holds is conditional onely , which i think to be a fiction , redemption and election in scripture being absolute in respect of persons , ●nd commensurate , redemption being as well from impenitency and unbelief as damnation : yet were it granted him , that he should thence infer , not the salvation of all , but of believers infants so dying and never performing the condition , is yet a riddle to me ; and i cannot yet imagine it to be any better then a sick-mans dream in mr. b. ch. . he urgeth his d . arg . from christs being head of the visible church in infancy , that infants may be members ; whi●h i deny not : nor is it the thing in question what they may be , but what they are . but this argument is answered before , sect . . and what he saith here out of irenaeus , proves not what he would infer , that irenaeus took them for visible churchmembers , because he saith , christ by the example of his age sanctifieth them . for every one sanctified by christ is not a visible churchmember : mr. b. saith before , pag. . we read of some that have been sanctified from the womb , were they visible churchmembers in the womb ? i know no absurdity in it to assert that christ was head of the church when an infant , and worshipped as such , and yet no infants should be visible churchmembers . mr. bs. perswasion that they know not gods will that think otherwise then he doth , is but an effect of his fond affection to his own brats . and yet when he himself saith , pag. . i confess it is disputable whether christ were ever a churchmember properly , he should not be very confident in asserting christ in infancy to have been head of the visible church . and for irenaeus his speech , it is so false , that were not mr. b. willing to catch at any shadow for his purpose , he would have concealed it . mr. bs. th . ch . and th . argument , is answered at large in the first part of this review , sect . , &c. ch. . he tels us , that his th . arg . is probable at least , that the scripture doth frequently and plainly tell us of the ceasing of circumcision ; but never speaks one word of the ceasing of infants visible churchmembership , therefore we are not to judge that it is ceased . that the antecedent or minor in this argument is false , is proved at large , sect . , , . the consequence is shewed to be invalid , in that other things of which the cessation is certain , as the freeing of servants , the dedication of the first born , are ceased , and yet not expressed so much in scripture as that of churchmembership . to this saith mr. b. the year of jubile was one of their sabbaths , and so a type , col. . . but i reply , though the year of jubile were a sabbath , yet this proves not that freeing servants then is any more said to be ceased then infants visible churchmembership . . sai●h he , the dedication of the first-born was evidently a type of christ , and the church under him : of both these many scriptures are plain but let it be proved , that the admitting of infants into the visible church is a meer type , or a meer judicial law proper to the jewish common-wealth , any more then the admitting of men or women into the church . i reply , . admitting of infants into the visible church , was no other then by their circumcising or presenting at the temple ; and these are ceased , as proper to the jewish church or commonwealth . . a thing may cease though we cannot prove it a meer type , nor a meer judicial law , as the receiving tythes , and paying them ; and things may remain though they were t●pes , as mount sion , the land of canaan , the people of israel , wh●ch were types , heb. . . gal. . . &c. . that the jewish infant churchmembership was not by a law , but by a fact of providence which took in the whole people of the jews into the church visible jewish , and consequently the infants as part of that people ; which by the breaking off that people , and taking into the church onely believers , is now ceased , as is shewed before , sect , , , . what mr. b. adds , if all nations should have become churchmembers th●y should have been circumcised , and then it had not been peculiar to the jews ; and that sichemites being circumcised would not have been subje●t to jacob , and that when in esthers time the people of the land became jews , they were not of the jewish commonwealth , and under their civil government ; is answered before , sect . . that which he saith , p. . that he hath sufficiently proved that infants ought to be admitted visible churchmembers , hath so little truth , that if the reader observe it , he shall find sca●ce any of his arguments so much as to conclude the admission of infants into the visible church , much less to prove it , but that they are visible churchmembers . whereby it is evident now ( which i could not observe in the dispute ) that mr. b. did leave the point to be proved , that infants ought to be admitted visible churchmembers ; and prosecuted another point instead of it , that they are visible churchmembers . but enough is done in answer to that also , which i pray the lord to bless for the undeceiving of the people of these nations who have been so shamefully misled by mr. bs. toy of an ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed , no where extant , that were they not either willing to be deceived , o● left to errour by god for their want of love to the truth , they could hardly have been deluded by such vain arguing as he hath vented . sect . lxxv . my arguments to prove the ingraffing rom. . . to be into the invisible church by giving faith , are vindicated from mr. bls. exceptions vind. ●aed . chap. . and mr. sidenham's exercit. chap. , . although mr. bls. manner of disputing hath been shewed to bee such as requires not any full answer , and would learned men compare , as men that sought truth , mine and his writings together , they would perceive the insufficiency of his reply , yet because i perceive some learned men do yet value his writings ( without good reason ) which oppose mine , i shall add somewhat more to shew how short his writings are of weakening any thing of mine . vindic. ●aed . ch . ● . sect . . having made an analasis of part of rom. . from v. . he takes on him to ground several undeniable positions . the third is the root of this tree ( viz. the first supreme universal root ) is abraham , isaac and jacob , not abraham alone so ishmaelites would bee of the body . nor abraham with isaac alone , so the edomites from esau would have been taken in . but the apostle in this chapter ( from old testament authority ) excludes both of these , abraham , isaac and jacob are therefore joyntly the root . answ. . that abraham onely is the root meant rom. . , , . i prove from rom. . , , . where abraham onely and no other of the patriarchs is termed the father of believers . but to bee the root rom. . , , . is all one with the father of believers . that the root notes a father mr. bl yeilds , that it notes not barely a natural father , is proved in that the gentiles should not be in that root , if it not●d barely a natural father , and that believers onely are branches of that root is proved from the text . . in that their standing is by faith . . that by unbelief some were broken off , vers . . which do plainly prove that they who were branches were believers , who were unbelievers were not branches . . that the partaking of the root could bee no otherwise then by faith , nor any other way ingraffing can bee meant is manifest ▪ in that the gentiles ( who had no other relation to abraham as a father then by believing as hee did ) partake of the root and are ingraffed into the olive . secondly , to master bls. argument , i answer by denying that the apostle doth in that chapter or any other exclude the ismaelites or edomites from the body . job , and other believing edomites were in the root and olive . yea if it were meant of the visible church and natural descent , ishmael and esau must be of the body who were of abraham by natural descent and circumcised , and so visible churchmembers . if mr. bl. deny they were in the body , because they were not of abraham , isaac and jacob , by this reason isaac and jacob should be excluded . for they were not from abraham , isaac , and jacob : they were not from themselves and yet were branches , and consequently they were not the root , but abraham alone , the root noting such a father as from whom all branches have descent . his fifth position is , the fatness of this tree is the glory of ordinances , of which the whole church partakes . answ. by ordinances hee means outward ordinances , as baptism , the lords supper , preaching the word , &c. by the whole church hee means the church visible . for that is his tenet all along , that the olive tree is the church visible , not the inv●sible . this is then mr. bls. position , that when it is said rom. . . and wast partaker together of the root and fatness of the olive tree , the meaning is , thou gentile church or believer art made partaker of outward ordinances of which the whole church partakes . now under the whole visible church he undoubtedly comprehends infants , and sure there is no ordinance of which infants are partakers according to mr. bls. tenet but baptism , so that then the apostle according to mr. bls. exposition , should mean no more by the fatness of the tree , of which the whole church partakes , but baptism . which is of it self so manifestly frivolous an exposition , as that i shall not need of set purpose to refute it . though , it is true , there is a glory and beauty in the ordinances of the new testament : yet first some of them , as the preaching of the gospel ( which is the most glorious ) those that are out of the visible church may partake of , and those wh●ch mr. bl. counts within may not partake of , i mean infants and some others . secondly , that fatness which is meant rom. . . passeth from the root to the tree , and thence to the branches , and therefore he that is said to bee partaker of the fatness of the olive tree , is first said to bee partaker of the root , but be the root abraham or as mr. bl. would have it isaac and jacob with him ordinances pass not from them . it is true circumcision was first begun in abraham , but all the rest of the jewish ordinances are according to scripture rather derived from moses then abraham , and to say they were partakers of the root , that is of circumcision ( which was the onely ordinance abraham , isaac and jacob did partake of ) is both false , for they were not circumcised ; and being so empty a thing as that it 's termed with all the jewish ordinances , a shadow col. . . heb. . . it had no glory then at all . and for baptism , the lords supper , &c. they passed not from abraham , isaac and jacob ; nor were they partakers of them , but were instituted by christ in the new testament . thirdly , the partaking of the root and fatness of the olive tree was by the ingraffing and consequent of it . but the ingraffing according to mr. bl. doth not make them partakers of outward ordinances . for the chief of ordinances , to wit , the preaching of the gospel , was the instrument of their ingraffing , as his own allegation shewes pag. . from acts . . and so was antecedent to the ingraffing , nor by the ingraffing were they partakers of the other outward ordinances . for though the heart were wrought to a professed subjection to the way of god in ordinances ( which is mr. bls. ingraffing ) and so ingraffed . yet they might bee never partakers of outward ordinances such as baptism and the lords supper , if either sickness or death prevented the administration or want of an administratour , or the elements , &c. hindered . fourthly , the fatness of the olive tree makes the partakers fresh and fruitful . but that is not outward ordinances , but the spirit of god , righteousness by faith , &c. of which i shall speak more in vindicating my fourth argument . mr. bl. saith farther , that the holiness rom. . . is such as is communicable from parent to childe , that is , necessarily communicated , as a root communicates to branches . this is so plain , that if it be denied all the apostles dispute falls . answ. it is true , that if the holiness bee not communicated from abraham to all his children by faith , who are believers as he was , the apostles dispute fals , but the apostles dispute holds though it bee not communicated to every childe of every believing father , which is mr. bls. conceit , as his following words shew . yea hence is a good argument to prove the holiness not to bee meant of meer visible church-membership , nor the root of every parent professing faith , because many of their children are never christian visible churchmembers , as experience abundantly proves , and so have not this holiness communicated to them . yea , mr. bl. saith , who knowes not that holy fathers have unholy children ? regenerate parents have issue unregenerate ? i may add , abortives , natural fools , still-born , bred up in mahometanism , renegado's , unbaptised , excommunicated , and consequently not visible churchmembers or federally holy . and it is most false in this holiness of visible churchmembership , or as mr. bl. cals it federal that the proposition holds , as is the father so is the childe , the father being without the childe is without ; the father being within the childe is within in regard of church estate , covenant holiness , eo nomine , because a branch of such a root , a childe of such a father ; which mr. bl. dictates here , but proves not , and hath been often refuted by me , nor is there any thing in rom. . . for it . yea mr. bls. own interpretation overthrowes this position . for if the root bee ( as his position is ) abraham , isaac and jacob ] then it is not every believing father , and if the root bee every believing father then all the branches of the tree are natural , and they derive their holiness by descent of nature , whereas it is plain from the text ( and mr. bls. fourth position is to the same purpose ) that the jews onely are natural branches , the gentiles are all ingraffed branches . mr. cuthbert sidenham in his exercit . ch . . takes upon him to demonstrate holiness and churchmembership of the children of believing gentiles from rom. . , , . and to answer my arguments ch . . against my opinion of the ingraffing into the invisible church he urgeth , then persons may be broken off from the invisible church , and takes notice of my answer in my examen p. . but saith nothing to my answer in my apology p. . though he could not but know of it , taking on him to answer my arguments in the next pages before . the rest he brings is from mr. b. and is answered by me in my review part . . sect . . &c. i agree with him in the position , that abraham is the root meant rom . . and that he is a root exemplary onely , nor do i deny that the apostles arguing is from a special prerogative to abraham to whom the promise was given gen. . . and that the promise did comprehend the elect of his natural seed , and that god had a more special regard to his natural seed in that promise then to other men● natural seed : yet not universally to his seed , nor is it true that the apostle makes the branches holy rom. . . by a prerogative of grace grounded on the promise of god made to believing fathers and their seed ▪ which is the same in the new testament and the old , as hee urgeth out of dr willet . for there is not that promise in the new testament , or old . and therefore the argument upon this conceit can have no strength in it . pag. . he layes down this position , wee believing gentiles are ingraffed into abrahams covenant in the room of the natural branches which were broken off . concerning which i say , that though i deny not the believing gentiles to have interest in abrahams covenant gen. . . that is , god is their god , and they have righteousness by faith as abraham had : yet the apostle doth not speak of their ingraffing into abrahams covenant , that ●s mr. sidenhams mistake , but into the olive tree , that is as mr. bl. the whole body of the church , which he would have meant of the visible , i of the invisible . now to mr. sidenhams arguments to that position ; i yeeld the conclusion of the first , that believing gentiles and their children are graffed in , but not all , or any as their children , and that the ingraffing is sutable to the breaking off , that is , that as the jewes and their children were broken off from the invisible church , in which the elect jewes and their children who were elect in former ages were for the greatest part , so the gentiles believers and their children are graffed in . yet mr. sidenham himself pag. . confesseth a very great disproportion , taking it as he doth for ingraffing into the visible church . for , saith he , there is this difference between the conveyance of priviledges of the jewes as natural branches , and the engraffed gentiles ; that the whole body of the jewes good and bad , were called branches ; now onely believers of the gentiles , who are called by the gospel , with their children , are ingraffed into that root . which is enough to shew that the gentiles were not ingraffed into the root or tree , as the jews by natural descent , but by calling of the gospel , and that the body of the gentiles or any nation of the gentiles is not ingraffed , but so many as are called . the ingraffing of the infant children with their parents into the visible church by an outward ordinance is but his own dream , and is overthrown by this , that the church christian visible is not by descent but calling ; not national but congregational , by voluntary covenant ; nor can the churches called independent hold this , which master sidenham , and master cobbet , and others of their way hold , that the ingraffing of the gentiles into the visible church is sutable to that of the jewes as being in their stead , but they must hold a national church , whi●h quite overturns the frame of their churches , and the reformation they contend for . to his second argument , the some that were broken off might be parents and children , or parents and not children , or children and not parents ; and of these there might be infants broken off without their own sin , or their parents , according to gods good pleasure onely . but of this i have said enough in answer to mr. geree and mr. baxter , in the first part of this review , sect . , . the conclusion of the third argument is granted , understood of ingraffing into the church invisible , not into the visible . to the fourth , that [ the fatness of the olive ] should note priviledges and outward advantages such as this , that the child should be visible churchmember with the father in the christian church , or that any other parent then abraham should have a seminal vertue to convey such church priviledge or fatness as the root mentioned rom. . . is a meer fancy ; nor is there any thing ephes. . . or any where else in scripture for it . to the objection , that now believers are onely branches , abraham onely the roote , and therefore the argument holds not , if the parent be holy so is the childe , being understood of other then abraham and his seed ; hee answers , that yet the branches well ingraffed become natural branches , and receive as much from the roote as those which grew naturally on it , so gentile believers must have the same priviledge , and that there are sprigges which grow out of branches which may bee termed immediate rootes . but hee doth not shew that the apostle or any wise man ever termed greater boughes of trees rootes to lesser ; neither dare hee say , the apostle meant every believing father by the root , rom. . . and therefore all this is impertinent to answer the objection , which was to invalidate the inference concerning the holiness of every believers infant , because the apostle saith , if the roote bee holy so are the branches , because abraham onely is the roote there . as for mr. bls. saying , i value it not , it being without scripture . it 's sufficient for present to shew the insufficiency of mr bls. and mr. ss. proofes . i pass on to vindicate my arguments from their pretended answers . how the dispute concerning the proof from rom. . , . for infants of believing gentiles visible churchmembership and baptism , was brought to this issue , whether the ingraffing rom. . . into the olive tree , be meant of joyning a person to the invisible church of the elect by giving faith according to electon , so that none are ingraffed but true believers or elect persons as i assert , is shewed in the first part of this review ▪ sect . . mr. bl. and mr. sydenham take on them to answer my arguments . the first is , that act of ingraffing to the church which is made gods act by his sole power with such an emphasis as implies it hopeless and impossible without the intervention of his omipotency , is , and can be no other ingraffing then into the invisible church by giving of faith according to election . but such is the ingraffing rom. . . as appears from v. . ergo. mr. sydenham answers , that to argue from gods power to his will , or to election , or from his power in general to the putting it forth absolutely in such a determinate act , is strange , unsound in divinity , and reason . but this is no answer . for there is no such arguing made by me . my arguing is none of those ways he mentions , but from the ascribing the act to god as done by his sole power , without which it were hopeless and impossible , to prove that it is more then man by his ordinary power can do , which can in this business be no other then the working of faith in the heart . and this the contraremonstrants thought sound arguing in the conference at the hague , and so do generally pleaders for irresistable conversion . and mr. sydenham makes it like to the resurrection of the dead , from v. ● . which sure no act of man can perform . but admission to the visible church may be performed by men , therefore the ingraffing cannot be admission into the visible church , but an higher act of giving faith according to election . but saith he , it is a work of mighty power to take away the prejudice against christ , in jews and gentiles , to bring to outward confession . to which i reply , it is no such work but may be done by moral suasion of orators or preachers , specially backt with the encouragement and commands of kings and emperours , as experience hath often shewed , therefore this cannot be all which is meant by the ingraffing . but saith he , it will require an act of power to gather them but visibly once again , and bring them into one entire body to make a visible church , when they are so scattered up and down all nations . to which i reply , . the gathering them together into one place , is not ingraffing them into the visible church ; for ingraffing them imports joyning them to others , but this gathering is a making them a distinct body of themselves ; the gathering into one place is accidental to their ingraffing i●to their own olive , he ingraffing may be without it ; and if they go together , it is likely the ingraffing will be before that gathering , and therefore that gathering and this ingraffing cannot be the same . . that gathering may be by the power and favour of emperors and kings , as it was by cyrus his proclamation heretofore in their return to jerusalem , and therefore is not this act of ingraffing which is ascribed to god by his sole power with such an emphasis as implies it un●easable but by his omnipotency . mr. bl. saith , that i do vainly make this engraffing to be in their sense ▪ no more then baptizing . but . whether i wrong my antagonists , may be perceived from mr. ms. words in his def●nce , p. . to what i said , the jews infants were graffed in by circumcision ; therefore ours are to be ingraffed by baptism . you answer , by demanding whether in good sadness i do think the apostle here means by graffing in , baptizing , or circumcision , or insition by outward ordinances ; for if that were the meaning , then breaking off must be meant of uncircumcising , or unbaptizing . to which i reply , that in good sober sadness i do think that graffing in is admission into visible membership , or visible communion with the church of christ ; and that the external seal of their visible graffing in was circumcision , and of ours baptism . and he disputes against the ingraffing into the invisible chu●ch , therefore he can understand it of no more then baptizing . . nor can mr. bl. conformably to his tenet . for if the ingraffing be such a● is common to infants and parents , and it be admission into the visible church of both , and infants are no way else admitted then by baptizing , the ingraffing is no other . but , saith he , we understand a discipling of gentile nations , working the heart to a professed subjection to the way of god in ordinances tendered , and assent of heart unto all that is there promised , and acknowledge it a work above the power of man , and confess it to be solely in the hand of god , as gen. . . acts. . . we do not speak of the bare admission of one that stands intituled , but the working of them to such a title ; and if an outward profession bee in the power of mans will , yet to bring men or nations to such a profession cordially to embrace the gospel so farre as to assent to the truth of it , is above man , and a worke of no such ease . i reply , . if it be not bare admission , but such a work as he saith , then infants are none of the branches ingraffed , nor doth the ingraffing belong to them , sith they have onely bare admission into the visible church by baptism . . if the profession be onely from fear , or carnal hopes , this may be wrought by teachers , orators , especially the favour and power of princes concurring , and then it is no act above mans power to ingraff . but if the heart be brought to assent cordially , and so to profess christ in sincerity ( as some of mr. bls. words seem to mean ) then it is by giving faith according to election , and the ingraffing into the invisible church : and so mr. bl. while he seems to answer my argument , doth unawares confirm it , through the irrefragable force of the truth . which might have been further cleared from the text , rom. . . where it is said , they also if they abide not in unbelief shall be graffed in , for god is able to graff them in again . whence it follows , while they abide in unbelief they are not graffed in , when they believe they are ; ergo , god ingraffs by giving faith according to election . my second argument was from v. , , . where the ingraffing is termed reconciliation opposite to casting away . to this mr. sydenham answers , . if i mean reconciliation in the strictest sense , as it denotes pardon of sins , and being made friends with god by christs atonement and mediatorship , then many absurdities may follow : . that the jews and their rejection was the ground of the gentiles ? reconciliation unto god. . that no reconciliation was obtained for the gentiles before the jews were broken off . . that those which are reconciled and their sins pardoned , may be cast off ; for so were the jews and the gentiles threatned with the same misery on the same ground . answ. . if by [ ground ] be meant [ cause , ] i deny that to follow on the exposition of reconciliation in the strictest sense ; if by [ ground ] be meant onely [ occasion ] i grant it follows , but count it no absurdity , it being the plain d●claration of the apostle . . i grant the second , 〈◊〉 understood of the fulness or body of the gentiles , and count it no absurdity ; after the time of gods separating of israel to be his people , there were onely some proselytes reconciled to god , but no full and ample number , so as to make any numerous church of themselves . . the third i yeeld as no absurdity , understanding the casting off of the same people , not the same persons , from what their ancestors were , not themselves . but mr. s. answers ly . by distinction of reconciliation into ou●ward and inward , and he would have it meant of outward reconciliation , by bringing them in under the means of the gospel and the outward dispensation , of the church , which is gods common way to salvation , and is to some effectual to inward grace , unto others onely to outward privil●dges . answ. . this reconciliation would exclude infants , for they are not so reconciled and consequently not ingraffed , and so the argument for their ingraffing hence is evacuated , if the reconciliation ( which is confessed to be the same with the ingraffing ) be such as agrees not to infants . . he doth noth not so much as offer to produce one place of scripture in which reconciliation is so taken , nor one approved writer so expounding it . . nor can it be expounded so . for it is no reconciliation at all which he describes . in reconciliation there is still taking away enmity , but in the bringing under the meanes of the gospel there may be no taking away of enmity , either from them to god , for they may hate him as much , yea more then before ; or from god to them , for he may ha●e them as much or more then before . . nor in this place can it be the meaning . for the reconciliation of the world , v. . is v. ● . the riches of the world , of the gentiles . but their riches imports something opposite to their fall , diminishing , or detriment ; and their fall must be to damnation , for it is v. . opposed to salvation , their riches must needes therefore bee to salvation , so termed vers . . but , saith he , the body of the gentile world ( which i mean ) are not so reconciled as by election and saving grace , though the sound of the gospel hath gone through all the world . answ. the body of the gentiles , that is a full ample part of them incomparably greater then the number of the proselytes to the jewish church is reconciled , and hath been for many ages to god by election and saving grace . mr. bl. also answers by distinction of reconciliation gradual , either to take in , or hold a people in visible communion ; or total , to receive them with an everlasting delight in them . the former he exemplifies out of exod. . , , , , . and thus applies it . reconcilia●ion is opposite to casting away . the jews then by reconciliation are brought into that state , out of which they were once cast ; but they were not cast out of the church invisible ; not out of election and justification , but out of a visible churchstate and fellowship . breaking off , as mr. t. well saith , is the same as casting away , and reconciliation the same as ingraffing . their reconciliation or ingraffing is then into that condition from which they were broken , out of which they were cast ; now they were cast out of the church visible , not out of the church invisible ; when they were in a churchstate they were nigh unto god , deut. . . psal. . . ephes. . . their reconciliation brings them into the same churchstate , which is a reconciliation gradual not total . answ. the casting away v. . is the same with the casting away v. , . which is opposite to gods fore-knowledge v. . to the election of grace v. . which obtained , and the castaway were hardned or blinded v. , , , . which he that understands of any other casting away then from the grace of election , and effectual calling , and the invisible church seems to me to pervert the apostles meaning very grosly . nor do i conceive it any absurdity to say that the jewish people in pauls time were broken off or cast away from that election , and state in the invisible church which they never had in their own persons , but their ancestors had , and they in course had obtained but for their unbelief . as for the reconciliation in all places where he mentions it in his epistles , hee means it of that reconciliation which is by effectual conversion , and justification , through christs death , on which followes salvation , rom. . , . cor. . , , . col. . . and not of mr. bls. gradual reconciliation , of which hee hath not brought one instance for the use of the word in his sense , nor is his example any thing like to the business in hand : for it was not a reconciliation so as to bring them to the priviledges of a visible churchstate , but so to pardon the sin of worshipping the golden calf , as not utterly to destroy that people , though the sinners fell in the wilderness : which was onely an abatement of punishment , not an estating in priviledges as mr. b. would have it . but mr. bl. to my urging any one to shew mee in scripture or any approved protestant writer , such use of the word reconciliation as his is , and my alledging protestant approved writers for my exposition , thus saith . . when mr. t. pleaseth , hee can heap up phrases which are onely once used in a select sense in scripture , and that to uphold his interpretation of holy and unclean , cor. . . when the context clearly evinces the contrary . but that this is false , and that the text clearly evinceth my interpretation is fully proved in the first part of this review . section , &c. secondly , sai●h hee , master t when hee pleases , dare undertake the defence of an opinion held unanimously by all papists , and as unanimously opposed by protestants , as in that of covenant holiness . but this also is another of master bls. calumnies and unbrotherly taunts which hee frequently useth instead of answers , and if there had been in him any candour of minde towards mee he had been satisfied with my answer in my postscript , sect. . but sith hee writes against me in a cynical humour , i pass by his snarlings , and leave the cause to the lord. thirdly , saith he , gomarus , t●m . . p. . observes that world is taken in tha● sense , in rom. . , . as in no other scripture . but i think this is not true , it is taken in the same sense tim. . . and i think cor. . , . joh. . . fourthly , saith he , if recontiliation in no other place be so used , yet little is gained ; seeing as wee have seen there are paralel phrases that hold out the same thing to us . answ. . those paralel phrases were never yet seen by me . . the thing is gained which is here contended for , if reconciliation still signifie total reconciliation in the scripture when it speakes of gospel reconciliation , and there is no cogent reason to move us to recede from that sense here , and reconciliation be the same with ingraffing , surely ingraffing is by giving faith according to election , and the church into which the ingraffing is , is the invisible . mr. bl. produceth a speech of ravanelius ( which i have not ) for his sense . but the words as hee produceth th●m seem not to mee to have that sense which mr. bl. alledgeth them for , but rather my sense , and a passage in the annotations , and another in dr. featley the author of them on those epistles . but in neither doth dr. featley say by the reconciliation to god rom. . . is meant bare vouchsafing a visible churchstate ; and by c●sting away , and breaking off a loss of visible priviledges , nor do peter martyr or euc●r say so . and however i finde protestant writers do expound the ingraffing and breaking off in many of their writings of the visible church , yet those speeches which i alledged out of mr. ball and dr. ames are full to prove the reconciliation rom. . . to be saving , and they that understand by breaking off there , more then the loss of visible priviledges , may notwithstanding mr. bls. censure without any shift in that point be acquitted from arminianism . my third arg . was from v. . ingraffing must be by giving faith , because it is by faith that the branch stands in the tree . to this mr. s. and bl. both answer by granting the conclusion , that it is by giving faith . but this faith mr. s. makes profession of faith , mr. bl. a faith of profession . to which i reply . . if it were faith professed by which the branches stand in the tree , yet infants are excluded from being of the branches , for they stand not by faith professed . . that it is not profession of faith , or faith barely dogmatical which is meant rom. . . i prove . thus . that standing which is a perseverance unto salvation is not by bare profession of faith , but true justifying faith . but the standing rom. . . is that stand●ng which is a perseverance unto salvation , ergo . the major is manifest ; for it is not a bare profession of faith whereby a man perseveres to salvation , but that which is justifying . the minor is plain from the text . the standing which is opposed to falling in which god shews his severity , is standing by perseverance unto salvation . this i presume will be yeilded , direct opposite termes being according to logick rules to bee understood in a direct opposite sense . but the standing rom. ● . . is opposed to falling in which god shews his severity vers . ● . ergo. . the standing which was to bee prevented by beeing not high minded but fearing , and the losing of which was to bee feared , is not a bare standing in the visible church , nor by bare profession of faith , but the loss of the standing was to be feared , and to be prevented by not being high minded but fearing , v. . for the loss of standing in the visible church needs not bee so much feared , and a less care would serve turn to prevent it . . that standing which would not prevent gods not sparing , is not the standing meant rom. . . for that would prevent gods not sparing , v. . but the standing onely in the visible church by profession of faith , would not prevent gods not sparing , matt. . . ergo. . that faith and standing are meant here , which in o●her places in that and other epistles are meant by the apostle , when hee speakes of the same thing . but in those places standing so as to persevere to salvation , and justifying faith are meant , as rom. . . and . . cor. . . ergo. . that standing and that faith is not meant of which it may bee said the root beareth them not , verse . but of them who onely stand in the visible church by a profession of faith , it may bee said the root beareth them not . for the roo● is abraham , and hee is a root or father to none but those who have justifying faith , rom. . , . ergo. . by that faith the branches stand which is directly opposite to the unbelief by which others were broken off , vers . . but that was unbelief of heart , and not of mouth onely , ergo , the faith is in the heart , and not in the mouth onely by which the branches stand . . that ●aith the branches stand by v. . by which they are partakers of the root and fatness of the olive . but that is justifying faith , as shall be shewed in the vindication of the next argument , ergo. mr. s. takes upon him to prove it meant of the visible church by profession of faith by some of master ●s . arguments , which because they are answered already in the first part of this review , sect. , &c. i let pass : onely whereas hee saith , can any man conceive that they should boast because the branches the jewes were broken from election and true faith , that they might be graffed in by a new act of god● election , and by true and saving faith ? i answer , though they might not thus boast , yet they might boast that god having broken off the jews , had in their stead ingraffed them , by giving saving faith according to his eternal election . and to what hee saith from v. , , , . what , are they exhort●d to look least they bee cut off from gods election , & c ? will m. t. turn a downright arminian , that hee may have any plea against the baptising of poor infants ? i answer , . that i scarse think that scribler did well know what arminianism was , and that i have sufficiently acquit●ed my self from that which is indeed arminianism , and better then his magnified aurthor mr. b. . that ●e might with as good reason impeach the apostle of downright arminianism , in that he exhorts us to give all diligence that we make our calling and election sure , pet. . . mr. bl. when he cannot untie this knot , endeavours to cut it asunder by this assertion , after many words which need no answer ; that there is no such thing in all scripture as ingraffing into the church invisible by faith ; all ingraffing is into the body visible , and therefore by a faith of profession . and yet his three first arguments whereby hee would prove this proposi●ion , do conclude no ingraffing but into christ , and consequently neither into the invisible nor visible , which is directly to contradict his own saying , all ingraffing is into the body visible . but let 's view his proofs about this position con●erning which it pleaseth mr. bl. to enter into the lists with me . . saith hee , all ingraffing is into that subject , which immediately receives what is ingraffed , as the stock receives the syens , but it is christ , and not the church invisible that receives the elect believer ; christ dwels in us by faith , so wee in christ , ephes. . . answ. ●his argument is made by mr. bl as if hee on purpose meant to refute himself . for . he wou●d prove there is no ingraffing of elect believers into the invisible church but into christ , because hee onely receives the elect believers ; which if true it would follow ; first , that elect believers are not ingraffed into the visible church , but onely non-elect professours of faith who are hypocrites , and so the visible church should have no elect ones in it , but all reprobates . secondly , i● the reason were good there should bee no ingraffing of prof●ssors of faith into the visible church contrary to his assertion , that all ingraffing is into the body visible . for it is christ that immediately receives , that is owns or acknowledgeth bare professours of faith as visible churchmembers , as well as he receives , that is owns and acknowledgeth as his invisible members , them who are ingraffed into his invisible body . . if wee be ingraffed by that faith by which christ dwels in us and we in christ , ephes. . . then we are ingraffed into the olive by that ●aith which is justifying ( for by no other ●aith doth christ dwell in us nor wee in him , nor is any other meant ephes. . . as is apparent from the text , the prayer of the apostle being not for a bare dogmatical faith , which they had already , but justifying , persevering , whereby christ might dwell in their hearts by his spirit , &c. ) and the ingraffing is into christ , and consequently into the invisible church . but so it is by mr. bls. argument , ergo . . i answer ingraffing is a metaphor and it notes uniting or joyning , and this joyning is not natural but spiritual or moral , and may bee at a remote bodily distance , and without the knowledge of those to whom the person is ingraffed , and may be to christ , and to his invisible body or visible , without any act of the church visible or invisible which may bee termed receiving ; yea if mr. bs. position bee right , plain script . proof , &c. part . . ch . . that a man living alone in america may yet bee a member of the visible church . for hee hath that which constituteth him a visible member though there bee none to discern it , a man may bee ingraffed into the church visible though neither hee know any other churchmember , nor any other know him , and therefore i deny mr. bls. major proposition in his argumen● , if understood ( as it must be if it be to the purpose ) of that metaphorical ingraffing which is rom. . , &c. saith he , all ingraffin● is into that which gives sap and juyce to the ingraffed , as the stock from the root to the syens ; now christ gives sap to the elect believing , not the church ; and therefore it is not into the church , but into christ. answ. . this argument also gainsays mr. bls. proposition ▪ that all ingraffing is into the body visible ; for it is not the body visible that gives sap to the elect believing , or professors of faith , but christ ; and therefore by this argument there is no ingraffing into the body visible . . christ onely gives sap and juice effectively , abraham exemplarily ; the church doth it onely as a vessel receiving it , as the stock receives it first , then the branch ; the veins receive the bloud , then the other parts of the body : and if mr. bls. major be understoood of any other giving juice , it is denied ; if of this , the minor . . saith he , if saving faith ingraff the branch into the church invisible , then the church invisible is the proper object of such faith ; but the church is no such object of faith , but christ. answ. . the same argument holds thus , if profession of faith ingraff into the church visible then the church visible is the proper object of such profession : but the church visible is no such object , but christ ; therefore there is no ingraffing by profession of faith into the church visible , contrary to mr. bls. tenet . . to say the church invisible is the object of faith , is no more then to say , to believe the holy catholick church is an article of the creed , and this i think mr. bl. counts no absurdity . . the consequence of the major proposition is denied . fai●h that saves hath the object christ , and as it respects christ doth unite or ingraff us to him as to our head , and to the invisible church as his body . . saith he , that supposed ingraffing into the invisible church , is either known to the body invisible , or unwitting ; if known , then it is not invisible . they have no light to discern an invisible work if unknown , then there could not be such a dispute about the new ingraffing of gentiles , nor complaint of breaking off of the jewes , all being done by an invisible translation , and so the subject of the question is taken away . answ. it was known to some of the invisible , to others not ; though it were known yet it might be invisible , they had light to discern an invisible work : though the work were unknown to some , yet there might be a dispute about the new ingraffing of gentiles , and complaint of breaking off the jews , as there was acts . though all were done by an invisible translation : so that there is no truth or strength in this rope of sand mr. bl. makes , and the subject of the question still remains . there is as much futility in the rest of his dictates . scheibler saith in his topicks , a not-being cannot be a part dividing ; yet he sai●h , in case any defend that to be which yet is not , in controversies such a division is to be supposed . but how vainly mr. bl. hath disputed against an ingraffing into the invisible church , may be discerned and thereby how frivolously 〈◊〉 compares it to a mountain of ayr . and what he saith , that the access of the gentiles in the acts was an ingraffing into the church visible , may be granted , and it may be true that it was into the invisible church also ▪ one new man , ephes. . . is true onely of the invisible church ; for the gentiles were never one visible church with the jews , except some few proselytes of them . that the visible church communicates sap and juyce which is the fatness of the olive in ordinances , and that saith dogmatical looks upon the church ( meaning the visible ) as the partial object , are di●tates , which i need not refute , sith there is no proof brought for them . as i concei●e he means them , they are false ; so much for the vindication of my third argument . my fourth argument is from v. . thus , that ingraffing is meant v. . whereby the wild olive is co-partaker of the root and ●atness of the olive tree : but such is onely by giving faith according to election ; ergo. i proved the minor by shewing that abraham is there the root as the father of the faithfull , and the fatness of the olive not priviledges of outward ordinances , but righteousness . mr. sydenham answers it by referring to mr. bl. and censuring my answer to him as a poor evasion , which i shall free from this censure in my reply to mr. bl. yet mr. s. scribles somewhat besides , which i shall reply to . he begins with questions , . ●ere not the natural branches which were broken off partakers of the fatness of the root ? answ. no. and were they all elected and partakers of saving graces , or outward priviledges onely ? answ. none of the branches broken off were elected or partakers of saving graces , though some were of outward priviledges . and why then should it be thought absurd for the gentiles by ingraffing to p●rtake of the fatness of the root onely in outward priviledges , seeing it was so with the natural branches , and they all grow on the same root ? answ. the natural branches as natural did not grow on the same root with the ingraffed ; abraham was not a natural father to the ingraffed branches , they descended not from him by natural generation , nor did the natural branches which were broken off grow on the same spiritual root with the ingraffed . abraham was indeed the father of the faithfull gentiles , and they his seed spiritually ; but so he was not ●o the jews broken off ▪ nor they ever in their own persons in the olive tree , as it notes the church of true believers , or in abraham the root as is meant rom. . . nor were ever partakers of the fatness of it , but the gentiles were ; nor did the jews fall from election and saving graces which they had in their own persons , but which they had in course been partakers of if they had believed , which i have cleared more fully in my answer to mr. cobbet , in the first part of this review , sect . . he tels me further , it 's improper to call a root an exemplary cause ; there is no harmony between them ; and example conveyed nothing ; here is a conveyance of fatness . answ. it is improper to term an exemplary cause a root , for it is a metaphor ; but it is no more improper then to term an exemplary cause a father , as the apostle doth abraham the father of believers , rom. . , . when yet the text makes him only such by his exemplary believing ; and if there were harmony between a father and ●n exemplary cause , though abraham conveyed not faith or righteousness , but as an example ; there is harmony between a root and an exemplary cause , though it convey nothing but as an example : nor is it unsuitable to good language to say , the ingraffed branches are partakers of the fatness or fulness of abraham as an example . that fatness the jews had from abraham which is meant rom. . . they had not from him as a natural father , nor did god make the evangelical covenant with him and his natural seed , nor do the ingraffed branches ever become natu●al branches , though they partake of evangelical benefits as well as the believing jews , who were natural branches . what mr. s. adds in answer to my objection , that if it were meant of outward priviledges it were false ; for the gentiles were not partakers of the outward priviledges of abraham , that abraham is a root in the new testament as well as in the old , i grant ; but deny what he adds , and still stands by vertue of the covenant to believers and their children : for neither is there such a covenant , and if there were , yet abraham could be a root onely to his natural seed , not to gentiles by vertue of that covenant . and what he adds , that though old testament ordinances were taken away with the jews and that church-state , yet the root is not taken away ; but the new testament priviledges grow on the same root ; and our ingraffing in gives us to be partakers of the fatness of them , as well as it gave to the jews the participation of former priviledges until they were broken off ; letting pass the vanity of the speeches , that our ingraffing gave to the jews the participation of former priviledges , which they had not by our ingraffing , but their own propagation from the root , and that the jews had the priviledges till they were broken off , whereas the persons broken off never had the fatness meant rom. . . all this answer avoids not the objection , but plai●ly grants the argument . for if the old testament ordinances and the jewish churchstate were taken away ( which all that are against a national church-frame must aver ) then if by fatness be meant outward ordinances and churchstate , the gentiles cannot be said to partake of them , nor they be meant by the fatness , rom. . . let 's examine what mr. bl. saith to this argument . . he denies that he ever said every believing parent is the root , a root he makes them , not the root . but by his leave i charge him with nothing but what doth plainly follow from his words . for that is the root according to him which communicates covenant holiness and church-state , and of whom it is verified if the root be holy so are the branches . but this is said by him in his vindic. faed . p. . and elsewhere , of every believing parent ; therefore if mr. bl. avouch his own arguings , he makes every believing parent the root , rom. . , . what mr. bl. speaks , that other parents are roots to their posterity , is granted , and needed not to be proved by mr. bl●ut ●ut that they being holy persons are holy roots communicating covenant holiness to their children , is not pr●ved by mr. bl. that the covenant or promise of god made to abraham , gen. . . & , . did assure and ●o constitute abraham to be the root of the church of true believers , is not denied , nor that circumcision did seal to him the righteousness of faith as a believer and the father of believers , rom. . , . but the form denominating him father of believers , or root of the olive , is propagating them by his exemplary faith : nor was david by his covenant , or jesse , or any other believing parent a root or father in the sense rom. . . & . , . though they were natural roots to their posterity , and builders of the house of israel , and the fathers cor. . . by natural generation ; yet none are said to build as abraham , from whom the fatness , rom. . . is derived , and not from any other intermediate father . for abraham had been father though he had had no child by natural generation , mat. . . descending from him : nor can it be t●ue , that he is termed the root by reason of natural generation ; for then the gentiles had not been bran●hes and children , and ●ll the branches had been natural , contrary to v. , . to this saith mr. bl. he makes them wild onely at their first ingraffing , and so was all terahs race wild likewise , till that change of faith wrought in abrahams call , and the covenant god entred with him ; we now are natural as they were , and cannot be called wild , but in our first original . answ. they that were ingraffed were still branches of the wild olive , and so are we that are believers of the gentiles , for that title is by nature and natural descent , rom. . . which is not changed by grace , though the fruit and sap be changed that is the qualities and actions by ingraffing : we that are believers of the gentiles are not the branches according to nature , for that is plainly meant of the jews onely , rom. . . when it is said , they that are according to nature shall be graffed in their own olive . which shews that the term they that are according to nature i● proper to the jews : but if every believing parent should be the root , rom. . , . then every gentile believers child should be a natural branch , contrary to v. . for they are all besides nature , and no believing gentile nor his child is now or hath been a natural branch in the sense the apostle means , rom. . . but mr. bls. chief objection is this , if the ingraffing be by a saving faith onely , to derive saving graces personal●y inherent , as a fruit of election from abraham , then it must needs be that we are elect in abraham ▪ abraham may say , without me ye can do nothing , and he that believeth in me , out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water : and we may say , the life that we live in the flesh , we live by faith in the son of terah . this must necessarily follow , if abraham be the root , no● onely respective to a conditional covenant , but to the graces under condition covenanted . answ. . this objection may be thus retorted , if the ingraffing be by a faith of profession onely , to derive onely outward ordinances , outward priviledges , covenant holiness , visible churchmembership , as a fruit of the covenant from abraham , isaac , and jacob the root , then we are i● covenant in abraham , isaac , and jacob : they may say without us ye cannot be visible churchmembers , &c. he that professeth faith in us , shall have outward church priviledges ; the priviledges we have in the visible church , we have by profession of faith in the son of terah . this must necessarily follow , if abraham , isaac , and jacob be the root respective to the covenant and covenant holiness , as mr. bl. asserts . when mr. bl. hath freed himself from these absurdities , i shall have somewhat more to answer him . . in the mean time my answer in my apology is , that the absurdities follow not on my opinion , who make not abraham a roo● as communicating faith by infusion or impetration mediatory as christ , but as an exemplary cause of believing , in which sense he is stiled the father of believers , rom. , . to this mr. bl. in his flirting fashion replies thus , a root not by communication , but example ; an ingraffing not to have any thing communicated from the root , but to imitate it , is such a catachresis as may well make all rhetorick ●shamed of it ; and if the sun ever saw a more notable piece of non sense , i am to seek what sense is . a root is too low in the earth to have its examples followed , and a syens sucks in juyce , but knowes not how to imitate . answ. . mr. bl. grosly abuseth me by insinuating as if i mentioned a root not by communication , but example : and ingraffing not to have any thing from the roo● , but to imitate it : but this i said , that abraham is not termed the root as communicating faith by infusion , or impe●ration mediatory as christ , but as an exemplary cause of believing , and the ingraffing i make to bee gods act of giving faith after abrahams example , whereby righ●eousness is communicated from abraham as the precedent or pattern , according to which god gives both , though the branches do not themselves imitate abraham . now this is no more non-sense then to term him a father without any other begetting or communicating then as an exemplary cause , which the apostle doth , rom. . , . and ( as i shew in the first part of this review , sect. . pag. ● . ) dr. willet , diodati , pareus , do so expound the root and father of the faithfull ; so that if there bee non-sense , these learned men with the apostle are to bee charged with it , as well as my self , which may redound more to mr. bls. then to the shame of rhetorick . and if a root bee too low in the earth to bee as an example , so is a fathers begetting too hidden a thing to bee our example , yet abrahams believing and justification may bee gods example according to which hee gives faith and righteousness . . when mr. bl. makes abraham , isaac and jacob , the root as communicating ordinances , visible churchmembership , &c. i would know how hee makes them communicating roots of these to believing gentiles infants . sure not by natural generation , for neither mediately nor immediately are they roots to them that way : not by teaching or example , for they are not things imitable , nor are they to them teachers , or visible examples : not by communicating to them the covenant , that is , gods act . what way soever hee make them the root according to his opinion there will bee as much non-sense and shame to rhetorick , and less truth in his explication then in mine . what hee adds , that whatsoever kinde of root i make it , yet it is a communicative root , vers . . i grant it in the sense expressed , not of communication by infusion or mediatory impetration , but as an ●dea . and what hee saith further , that the term father and root are not full synonyma's , yet in the main they agree ; is as much as i need to shew that it is no more non-sense to term him a root who communicates sap onely as a pattern , then it is to term him a father who begets onely as an example . and whereas hee saith , both metaphors aptly set forth what the branches as from a root , the children as from a father receive , namely their title to the covenant from him ; and therefore as to abraham , so to all israel pertained the covenants and the adoption , rom , . , . and so to all that are become children and branches with them . i grant the metaphors set forth what the branches and children receive from the root and father : but that the thing received is title to the covenant in mr. bls. sense , that is to be partakers of outward ordinances ( which is more truly non-sense then my expression of a root by exemplarity , or that to abraham and so to all israel pertained the covenants and adoption , rom. . , . or that to the ingraffed branches or gentile children of abraham , belonged the covenants and adoption and other p●iviledges which are there appropriated to israel after the fl●sh , though not imparted to all ) there alledged , is denied . title to the covenant of grace is not communicated to gentile believers any otherwise , then in that they are made abrahams seed by faith , and this is communicated to them no otherwise from abraham then as an example , and therefore he is a root no other way ●hen i assigne , if there bee any other way it is more then yet mr. bl. hath shewed . yet hee adds , the title father is yet extended to a greater latitude , as hee doth impart to his issue ( as before ) so hee is a pat●ern and example as even natural parents are likewise according as rom. . ● . ( quoted by mr. t. ) is set forth , yet that place is too palpably abused . answ. though fathers bee examples and patterns to their children in their actions , yet not all nor onely parents are such , nor is abraham called a father there because hee was a good pattern onely , but because hee as the a●chtype or primitive pattern begat jews and gentile believers as his seed to faith , nor in this or any thing have i abused the apostle . mr. bl. tels mee . the steps of the faith of the father abraham is the doctrine of faith which abraham believed , or the profession of faith which hee made . all that were professedly jews , and all that were professedly christians , w●lk in the steps of that faith : all circumcised believers had not that faith that just●fies , nor yet all the uncircumcised ; and abraham is a father of both . hee could bee exemplary as a pattern to bee followed , onely in that which is external ; his faith quà justifying could not bee seen to bee imitated . answ. i abhor it to abuse the apostle so palpably as mr. bl. doth here . for it appears not onely from the main drift of the apostle in the whole chapter precedent , specially v. , . but also from the very words v. . that righteousness might be imputed ●o them also , that the apostle speaks of that faith onely which is justifying , which is believing with the heart , rom. . and therefore those speeches are palpably false , that the steps of the faith of the father abraham is the doctrine of faith which abraham believed ( which may be by a teacher that neither believes nor professeth ) or the profession of faith which he made ( which a judas or simon magus might have , and so should have righteousness imputed to them as abraham had ) that all professed jewes or christians walke in the steps of that faith , that abraham is father of those uncircumcised believers who had not that faith that justifies . as for mr. bls. reason , it is against himselfe ; for abrahams profession could no more bee seene to bee imitated in the apostles dayes then his faith as justifying : both might be known by gods word , and be followed as a pattern , though i conceive the apostle makes those to walk in the steps of abrahams faith , who do believe as hee did , though they never saw or heard of abrahams b●lieving , as he may be said to write after a copy who writes the same , though he never saw the copy . he adds , and the like he hath pag. . i make abraham onely the root , as he is onely the ●ather of believers exemplarily ; and that which made him the father of believers , was not the covenant , but his exemplary faith , as i gather from the words of the apostle , rom. . , , , , . did none but abraham give an example unto others of believing ? the apostle to the hebrews sets him out , chap. . as one example among many ▪ we find many that went before him , abel , enoch , noah ; and more that followed after him . and i should rather think that the text by him produced , proves without any contradiction , that the covenant made abraham the father of believers ; he is the called three father of us all , and a text quoted for it , which is gen. . . a father of many nations i have made thee : and whether that be not by vertue of covenant , let the context be consulted , together with the apostles words , rom. . . he closed with god in covenant , and accepted the seal of the covenant , that according to covenant he might be the father of all them that believe . answ. . if abel , enoch , noah , be set out as examples of believing with a faith justifying , heb. . , , , . by which noah became heir of the righteousness which is by faith , then it is not true which mr. bl. ●aith a little before , that abraham could be exemplary as a pattern to be followed onely in that which is external . . many before and after did believe as abraham , and they are examples to us , pleb . . . yet we find not any whose faith was remarkably tried and approved as abrahams , and therefore none deno●inated the fat●er of believers besides him . . it is granted the promise or covenant was the object of abrahams faith , and that it did assure that he should be the father of believers both of jews and gentiles ; yet the reason of the denomination of father of believers is made onely his eminent faith , and the form denominating him is 〈◊〉 relation to them , the foundation of which was his begetting believers exemplarily ▪ . rom. . . it is neither said abraham closed with god in covenant , nor that he accepted the seal of the covenant , nor is there in that v. any mention of the covenant , or of the seal of the covenant , but ● . ▪ the apostles having termed abraham the father of us all , v. , , , , . he sets out his faith as most eminent , and that as the reason of his fatherhood . mr. bl. to what i said , the fatness of the olive tree , diodati said truly , is the blessing and promise made to abraham and to his seed , and so the apostle expresseth , gal. . . saith . this we grant , and priviledge of ordinances contained this blessing and this promise ; we know the gospel to be the power of god to salvation . to which i reply , the blessing , gal. . . is j●stification , v. , . and the promise is of the spirit through faith , which a man may be without , though he have the outward ●riviledge of ordinances , and therefore are not contained in it : nor is the gospel the power of god to salvation without faith ; and therefore if the ingraffing be onely into the visible church ▪ and a person have onely the priviledge of ordinances , he may be without the blessing and promise made to abraham and to his seed , gal. . . which is granted by mr. bl. to be the fatness meant rom. . . and therefore the fatness is more then outward priviledges and ordinances , and i said truly it is too washy and frigid an exposition which doth so expound it , and this washes away the dust mr. bl. casts on rom. . . but he argues thus . that wherein the jews exceeded the gentiles , is the fatness whereof the gentiles partake , when they are ingraffed instead of the jews ; this none can deny , for this makes them their equals and co partners : but it is priviledges of ordinances ( how frigid and washy things soever mr. t. little better then profanely makes it ) is the priviledge wherein jews exceeded gentiles , rom. . . deut. ● . , . psal. . , . therefore this is the fatness of the olive . answ. the major is not true , if universal : and mr. bls. reason proves it . for the gentiles when ingraffed , were not made equals and co partners in many things wherein the jews before exceeded the gentiles . all those things mentioned rom . , . were prerogatives of the jewes never imparted to the gentile believers , yea that priviledge mentioned rom. . . the committing the oracles of god , the christian gentiles were never made equals and co partners with the jews in , god did never give oracles and answers to the christian gentiles , nor the tables of the covenant , and the book of the law to be kept , as hee did to the jews . but that wherein the jews and gentiles were made equals and co partners , was justification by faith , and union with christ by his spirit , as ephes. . . gal. . , , &c. and therefore this argument is rightly retorted thus on mr. bl. that wherein the gentiles ingraffed were equals and copartners with the jews is the fatness meant rom. . . but this is not the priviledges of ordinances , but justification and oneness in christ , ergo that is the fatness meant rom. . . to what i said , that the gentiles were not partakers of the outward priviledges and ordinances of abraham and the jews , they being tak● away , hee saith , if that of the apostle bee true , that the gospel was preached to abraham , gal. . . then this cannot bee false . if the rock and manna in the wilderness bee the same , as that on which w● seed , cor. . . the outward priviledges of that people may well the 〈◊〉 the same with ours . answ. . if the outward priviledges and ordinances of abraham and the jews be the same with ours , then not onely the preaching the gospel , but also circumcision , the passeover , the temple , high priest , sacrifices , &c. must be the same to us as to them . . though the gospel be preached to us which was preached to them , yet not in the same manner ; it was preached to them ●s future , to us as accomplished ; nor by the same ordinances , not by the slaying the paschal lamb , the high priests going into the most holy place with bloud once a year , &c. . no● is it true that the rock and manna in the wilderness is the same as that on which we seed , cor. . , . though it be true the same christ or spiritual meate and drinke was signified by the manna they ate , and the water out of the rocke which they dranke , which is signified by the bread and wine wee receive in the lords supper : but this doth not shew the same outward priviledges of the jewes and us , but the same spirituall benefits signified to them which are to us . he next tels me , i have taken pains for my own full refutation ; for if abraham be the root , then the natural posterity of abraham must of necessity be the natural branches which were cut off : which he endeavours to prove from rom. . , . & . , . though the conclusion be not denied , but oft asserted by me ; and then brings in paul thus disputing , pauls kinsmen after the flesh were the church visible , not invisible : but pauls kindred according to the flesh were the branches cut off ; ergo , the church visible not invisible was cut off : which conclusion doth not contradict any thing i assert , who never made the church invisible cut off , but some branches broken off from the church invisible which was formerly in that people . so that mr. bl. hitherto hath m●de no answer to my arguments , but talk●d at randome quite besides the matter urged in them . my th . argument was ▪ if the breaking off the jews were by blinding , then the ingraffing was by giving faith ; but the former is true , v. . ergo , the later . to this mr. s. saith , there is not the s●me reason , seeing ●e takes i● of giving saving faith ; their blinding was judicial , a punishment for their unbelieving rejecting of the gospel , though they had not saving faith to embrace the gospel ; the giving of faith is not on such terms ; neither is saving faith so absolutely antecedent to make a man a member of the visible church , as blinding to gods final rejection . answ. he sai●h there is not the same reason , but shews not why if the breaking off be by blinding , the ingraffing should not be by giving a saving faith . sure according to all the logick i ever learned it is as clear an a●gument as can be in this case , that where opposite effects are put , the one effect being from one cause , the other should be from the opposite cause t is true , i take the inlightning opposite to blinding to be the giving saving faith : yet do not think the blinding v. . to have bin judicial a punishment for their unbelieving , rejecting of the gospel , but as it is v. . the vety shutting up in unbelief , the antecedent to unbelief ▪ consequent on reprobation opposite to election , as v. , , , . do plainly shew , not consequent to unbelief . what he means by the giving of faith is not on such terms , i cannot readily divine ; the speech seems to me to be either non-sense , there being no terms forementioned that i can perceive to which it may be referred , or else it is impertinent to the answering the objection , and so as that which follows . for though the giving of saving faith be not on such terms as mr. s. means , or that it be not so absolutely antecedent to make a man a member of the visible church as blinding is to gods final rejection , doth it follow , that if the breaking off be by blinding , v. . the ingraffing is not by giving faith , v. ? but mr. s. adds . . blindness came but in part on israel ; it fell onely on the meer visible members , not the invisible and elect : therefore the ingraffi●g must be onely of visible members into the visible church , v. . the election hath obtained it , but the rest were blinded . answ. there is no shew of consequence that i know in it , that if blindness fall not on the elect , therefore ingraffing is not of the elect onely ; the argument is plain on the contrary even from vers . . alledged by him , the rest to wit the non-elect were blinded , therefore the ingraffed who obtained were onely the elect , and their obtaining the ingraffing was by such enlightening as wrought saving faith in them . mr. bl grants the conclusion , that the ingraffing is by giving faith , but a faith of profession into a churchstate , as he answered to the d. arg . to which i reply , . if it were giving of such a faith , yet infants would be excluded , sith they are not so ingraffed . . the ingraffing notes more then admission by an outward ordinance . . i proved from the text v. , , . that the blinding was of those who are not elect ; and therefore the inlightening by which the election obtains , or the gentiles are ingraffed is that , as dr. ames saith antisynod . animadv . in art . . c. . whereby they obtain faith and salvation from election . and i used these words , if the blinding be the effect of reprobation , and the breaking off be by blinding , then the ingraffing is by inli●htening , and that inlightening is according to election , and so is all one with giving of faith , by which i mean justifying or saving faith . at this passage mr. bl. lays about him thus , here is divinity which calls for patience in a degree above all that is christian ; which one of the contraremonstants , worthy the name of an adversary of the arminians , hath taught this doctrine ? it is that which their adversaries indeed charge upon them , but that which they unanimously do disclaim . i have heard that reprobation is the antecedent of sin , but never that it was the cause ; and that sin is a consequent of it , but never an effect . reprobation is the act of god ; and in case it be the cause of blindness , then god is the cause : so that the contraremonstran●s have got a sweet advocate to cast that upon them , that none of their adversaries ( though they have turned every stone to it ) could never prove by them . answ. . i did onely use this expression [ if the blinding be the effect of reprobation ] which causeth all this insulting , which doth not positively assert it , onely mr. bl. gathers it from the assumption which he supposeth i would have put , which is not very candid dealing . . the assumption he sets down thus , then his assumption can be no other , but that blindness is the effect of reprobation : but herein he doth grosly abuse me . for i did not say , if blindness be the effect of reprobation , but if blinding be the effect of reprobation , between which there is a great difference . for blindness is mans sin , but blinding is gods act , ascribed to god v. . when it is said , god hath given them a spirit of slumber , eys that they should not see . and job . . . he hath blinded their eys , and hardened their heart . and this act being no other then the certain permission of sin , is commonly made by protestants an effect and means executing the decree of reprobation , which is no other then blinding . potav . synt . l. . c. . reprobation is effectus est permissio lapsus . ames . med . theol. l. . c. . § . tertius reprobationis actus est intentio dirigendi media illa , quibus justitia possit in reprobas manifestari . media hujus generis maxime propria sunt permissio peccati , derelictio in peccato , rom. . thes. . , . calvin instit. l. . c. . § . . unde ( from rom. . . ) sequitur absconditum dei consilium obdu ationis esse causam . yea , § . he saith , cujus rei ( defectionis angelorum ) causa non potest alia adduci quam reprobatio , quae in arcano dei consilio abscondita est ▪ vide andr. rivet . sum . contro . tr●ct . . q. , . and piscat ▪ observ . . e rom. . , , , . erram igitur qui putant praedestinationem pendere a praevisis operibus , vel a praevisa fide , vel incredulitate . imo haec omnia praedestinationis effecta sunt : quomodo igitur possunt statui praedestinationis causae ? so that if i had taught ( as mr. bl. misreports me ) that gods reprobation causeth blindness ; yet i had authours worthy the name of adversaries to the arminians so saying : nor have i done any such high dis service to the anti-arminians as in the table at the ●nd of his book he chargeth me with . . if mr. bl. had not minded to pick a quarrel , he might have interpreted ( as indeed i meant ) the term effect not strictly or rigourously , as scheibler speaks , but in the sense in which logicians call the eclipse of the moon , the effect of the inter position of the earth between it and the sun , though it be rather a consequent , then an effect ; after which manner i explained the term cause in the same book ; review , part . sect . . p. . . let the word [ effect ] be left out , and let the word [ consequent ] be put in , my argumen hath the same force ; and therefore this was in mr. bl. a meer wrangling exception . let 's view what he saith in answer thereto . he saith , mr. t. lays all upon god , gods reprobation causes blindness , and their breaking off is by blinding ; here is no hand but gods in their destruction . and now the blasphemy of the consequence being denied , so that blindness is no effect of reprobation , breaking off being not by blinding ; what becomes of the rule of opposites here produced ? and mr. t. should not be ignorant , that election and reprobation in the work of salvation and damnation do not per omnia quadrare , otherwise as election leads to salvation without any merit of works , so reprobation should lead to destruction without any merit of sin ; which contraremonstrants unanimously deny , though mr. t. here will have them to affirm , having before quoted v. . & . of this chapter , he saith from which anti-arminians gather absolute reprobation , and then explains himself what this absolute reprobation in his sense is in the words spoken to . and then in opposition to me cites gomarus denying absolute reprobation in my sense , that god absolutely reprobates any man to destruction without subordinate means , to wit , sin ; that god doth not effect sin , or decree to effect it : and dr. prideaux , that sin follows not on reprobation as an efficient , but deficient ; is a consequent , not effect of reprobation : and mr. ball , that gods decree is not the cause of mans sin . answ. in all this there 's not a word that takes away the force of the argument ; if that word [ effect ] had been left out , as it was left out in the first framing of it , and [ consequent ] had been put in , though the argument had been as strong if that word had been used , or , as it was in the first framing , neither used . he accuseth me of blasphemy ▪ here as asserting blindness to be the effect of reprobation , that i lay all upon god , no hand but gods in mens destruction ; that i make contraremonstrants to affirm an absolute reprobation without any merit of sin ; and that i explain absolute reprobation gathered by them from rom. . , . in this sense , of all which charges there is not one true ; so that here is nothing but a fardel o● manifest calumnies . and as for what he alledgeth , that breaking off is not by blinding , because blindness was their guilt , and casting off their just sentence , and the guilt and punishment are not one , it doth no whit infringe my argument . for these may well stand together , that gods reprobation is executed by blinding , and yet blindness their guilt , and upon their unbelief or blindness god breaks them off by a just sentence ; as on the other side , election is the cause of gods enlightening , whereby the ingraffed branches believe , and through fai●h they are by gods act of grace ingraffed into the invisible church of true believers : and in this manner the rule of opposites holds evidently , although election and reprobation in the work of salvation and damnation do not per omnia quadrare , nor there be any such absolute reprobation as leads to destruction without any merit of sin . which kind of absolute rep●obation i never asserted , nor ascribed to contraremonstrants , who onely make reprobation absolute , in that the reason why god in his eternal decree or purpose did choose one to life and not another , is not the foreseen belief and obedience of one , or the foreseen unbelief or disobedience of the other , but his own will , rom. . , , , . nor do i make sin in proper or strict acception the effect of gods act ; i never said , blindness is the effect of gods reprobation , as mr. bl. misreports me , nor that god doth by any positive influx work it in man as an efficient ; but i said , blinding was the effect of reprobation in a larger sense , as effect is taken for a consequent , and that it was by blinding , which doth not at all gainsay the sayings of those learned writers alledged by mr. bl. and if gods severity in not sparing the natural branches were explicitely no more then what christ threatned , matth. . . yet my argument holds good . for the taking away of gods kingdome is not onely the taking away of the preaching of the gospel , but also the being of the church of true believers among them as heretofore ; and so the breaking off was by blinding , and the ingraffing into the invisible church of true believers by giving of faith according to election , which was to be proved . my th . arg . was , if reingraffing of the jews produceth salvation , is by turning them from iniquity , taking away their sins according to gods covenant , then it is into the invisible church by giving faith ; but the former is true v. , . ergo , the later . mr. s. saith , to which i give a fair answer , that doubtless according to those promises , when the jews shall be called in to be a visible church again , there shall bee abundance of more glory brought in with them , then ever yet the world saw ; and the new heavens , and the new earth , the coming down of the new jerusalem and all those glorious things are fitted to fall in with that time . and from these considerations many do interpret v. . litterally , and so shall all israel bee saved . but get . they shall be ingraffed in as a visible church , else abraham and the fathers would never be mentioned as roots . . they shal be ingraffed as they were broken off : now they were broken off as a visible church . . all that can be gathered is this , that the fulness of salvation , and the vertues of the promises shall more fully and universally take effect on the jews , even to the salvation of all of them ; and so the invisible & visible church be more pure and as one in the earth ; but this fulness shall be to them as a visible church and on the earth . answ. 't is a fair answer , but such as hath nothing to weaken the argument , there being neither of the premises denied , but the minor granted expresly , that the vertues of the promises shall take effect on the jews even to the salvation of all of them , which if true , then none are ingraffed but elect persons , and their ingraffing into the invisible church , now the ingraffing of the gentiles , was the same with the re-ingraffing of the jews , if then the jews re ingraffing were into the invisible church according to election , so is the ingraffing of the gentiles . what hee saith , yet they shall be ingraffed as a visible church , and this fulness shall be to them as a visible church , taking [ as ] reduplicatively cannot bee true , for then every visible church should have all in it saved , and for the reasons he brings to prove , they are answered before , the fathers are nor mentioned as roots , but abraham , who is a root not of the visible church a● such , but of the invisible of true believers , and they are ingraffed as the other were broken off from the invisible church . mr. bl. saith , this arg . well husbanded , might have made three ; to the first i say , that a churchstate in scripture phrase is salvation , job . . . seeing churchmembers are partakers of saving ordinances ; and the fruition of ordinances under gospel dispensations is a great salvation , heb. . . and so that text rom . . and so all israel shall be saved , must be understood as i told mr. t. p. . of my answer out of the last annotations , and so diodate . answ. this then is the meaning of rom. . . all israel shall bee saved , that is , they shall be in a visible churchstate partakers of saving ( outward ) ordinances under gospel dispensations . but can mr. bl. or any sober man think this to be the meaning , they shall be saved , that is , they shall be in such an estate in which they may bee damned , and in which many are damned ? or that god where hee mentions the effect of his his great covenant of the gospel , means no more but such an estate ? is this all or any part of the new covenant heb. , &c. heb. . , . to have a meer visible churchstate ? i did alwayes think the covenant of grace had promised the spirit of christ , th●t the ministery thereof was of the spirit , cor . , . of righteousness , v. . not of a meer visible churchstate . and sure if we look to the place whence these words are quoted ( as mr. ●l saith ) isai. . . jerem. . . there is an express promise of the spirits continuance upon them , which is sure much beyond a visible churchstate . as for what he brings out of scripture , it is shamefully wrested . for joh. . . a meer visible church-state is not termed salvation , but whether by it bee meant by a metonymy , the doctrine of salvation ▪ or the authour of salvation christ himself , it is certainly another thing then a meer visible churchstate , yea in that sense the speech were absurd to term a meer visible church-state salvation , and false to say tha● the visible churchstate was of the jewes . and for the other text ●eb . . it doth not term the fruition of outward ordinances under gospel d●spensations great salvation , but the great benefit purchased by christ termed eternal salvation , heb. . . declared and offered in the gospel . diodati annot . on heb. . ● . so great ] namely everlasting redemption , revealed and communicated by the gospel , and impl●citely opposed by the apostle to the temporal deliverance out of egypt , for the contemning of which the israelites were punished in the wilderness . and though the new annot. and diodati paraphrase rom. . . by [ put into the way of salvation ] yet they do not restrain this to a meer visible churchstate ; yea both add , that by [ all israel ] may be understood the israel of god , gal. . . of jews and gentiles , which is the invisible church . and di●son thus parap●raseth the words , and so all israel , that is , the multitude of jews comprehending the body of the people dispersed shall be converted . and piscator in his scholie , the fulness of israel shall be saved , to wit being effectually called by the preaching of the gospel , and justified by faith in christ. but what is said of all israel , is not to be extended to each , but to be understood of the greatest part , from which the denomination is wont to be made . mr. bl adds , and such men brought into a churchstate are turned from iniquity partially , from their former way of iniquity , their contradicting and blasp●eming ; having escaped the pollution of the world , pet. . . of the world ●hat remains out of the church of god. answ. ▪ were this the meaning , yet infants should be excluded , who are not thus turned . . that such a partial turning cannot be meant , is manifest , in that the term is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ungodlinesses , that is , all sorts of ungodliness from jacob , that is , as piscator in his scholie , by pardoning or remitting and justifying by faith , and this to be done by the redeemer which shall come out of sion who so turns from iniquity as to bless them whom he turns , acts. . . which doth not agree to mr. bls. partial turning . more rightly di●son thus paraphraseth the words . he foretelleth that so it should be , that the true redeemer should free his nation from the guilt and servitude of sin , the iniquities of that people being pardoned ; and that it should be , that he would receive them into the covenant of grace to the full abolishing of sin . but , saith mr. bl. their sin is pardoned quoad hoc : and when moses , prayed for the pardon of the sin of israel , exod. . and god promiseth it , chron. . . it is so to be understood of a national pardon . answ. a partial pardon quoad hoc of some particular sin , and releasing onely of some particular evil , cannot be meant rom. . , . sith it is a taking away of their sins , by the agency of the redeemer that comes out of sion , and according to gods covenant to them ; which . the same with that , jer. . heb. . . & . , . in which eternal redemp●ion and inheritance are assured , heb. . ▪ . i grant it shal be a nationa● pardon , understanding by nation the greatest or chiefest part of the nation , but different from the pardon obtained by moses , exod. . or prom●sed , chron. . . to what i said in answer to mr. geree , that i thought at the jews restauration there shall be some of them formalists and hypocrites , but none of the re-ingraffed , mr. bl. replies , the re-ingraffing here is in their stead that fell away by multitudes , and therefore were hypocri●es and formalists , and the ingraffed such as might fall , which is not spiritual israel , but carnal . but the text doth not say , the jews shall be re-ingraffed in their shead that sell away by multitudes ▪ but onely that the gentiles be graffed into the olive in stead of the jews broken off , v. . and the jews shall be re-ingraffed when the fulness of the gentiles shall come in , and both be ingraffed together , not the one broken off to make room for the other , as in the calling of the gentiles , v. . yet were it so as mr. bl. saith , how doth it follow , the re-ingraffing here is in their stead that fell away by multitudes , ergo the re-ingraffed were some of them formalists and hypocrites ? i conceive it follows rather on the contrary , those that fell away were hypocrites , therefore they that are ingraffed in their stead are living branches , or sincere believers . as for what he said before about the falling away of the ingraffed , is answered before . but mr. bl. yet adds , there is a national pardon , and a personal : pardon i● o●t applied to a national return , as chron. . . & jerem. . , . there it is the removal of drought , locusts , pestilence ; here their judgement was the vail of blindness , not assenting to the gospel light ; and they shall be saved from this blindness , as the text expressly hath it , v. , . answ. this blindness is no way removed but by giving of faith , as is proved before ; and therefore this proves for me , the ingraffing to be giving faith according to election , and all the ingraffed to be elect . yet once more saith mr. bl. the words quoted out of v. , . are partly from isa. . . and partly from jerem. . . as i conceive , which in the prophets are directly spoken of a national return , and national pardon , as mr. b. of one of them hath well observed : but in new testament scriptures variously applied , as all know that text of habakkuk is , ch . . . that of jeremy is applied personally : but here , as the context is clear , it , must bee applied nationally to israel according to the flesh . the vail shall be taken from them on whom it lies ; it lies on israel according to the flesh : what mystery had the apostle revealed in case he had onely shewed that all elect b●lievers should be saved ? answ. though that were no mystery , yet it was a mystery , that god shou●d contrive it so that israel gods people formerly should now be blind , and the gentiles see , and when their fulness is come in , then all israel should be saved , who were then broken off . and this salvation is to be national , and yet spiritual , there being a national effectual conversion to god , although all of the nation be not converted , as well as there is a national return from captivity , and yet not all return . the words being quoted from ●sai . . . jer. . . there being no reason to the contrary they shoul● be applied personally here , as ●hey are heb. . . & . ● , . i shall close up the vindication of this argument with the words of dr. owen of perseverance ch. . § . . the force then of this promise , isa. . ● . and the influence it hath into the establishment of the truth we have in hand , the perpetual abiding of the spirit with the saints , will not be evaded and turned aside , by affirming , that it is made to the whole people of israel . for bes●des , that the spirit of the lord could not bee said to bee in the ungodly rejected part of them , nor his word in their mouth , there is not the least in text and context , to intimate such an extent of this promise as to the object of it , and 't is very weakly attempted to bee proved from pauls accommodation , and interpretation of the v ▪ fore going in rom. . . for it is most evident , and indisputable to any one , who shall but once cast an eye upon that place , that the apostle accommodates and applies these words to none , but onely those who shall be saved , being turned away from ungodliness to christ , which are onely the seed before described . and those hee cals all israel ; either in the spiritual sense of the word , as taken for the chosen israel of god , or else indefini●ely for that nation , upon the account of those plentiful fruits , which the gospel shall finde amongst them , when they shall fear the lord and his goodness in the latter dayes . my seventh argument was , if the re-ingraffing bee by vertue of gods election and love , his gifts of calling ▪ then it is into the invisible church , by election and giving of faith ; but the former is true v. , ● ergo , the latter . mr. s. answers , . it 's said , that as touching election the jews are beloved for their fathers sake ; hence it follows , god hath a love of election to believers and their natural seed ; for so the jews were the natural seed of abraham . answ. it followes not of believing gentiles and their natural seed , for this is spoken peculiarly of the jews . nor doth it follow of all the natural seed of abraham , the contrary is determined rom. . ; , . nor of any at all times , as in the time of their great apostasie . much less doth it hence follow , as it hath been pleaded for paedobaptism , that because god loved the jews for the fathers sake , therefore wee are to take in the parcels , all the infants of inchurched believers , to bee elect and in the covenant of grace , and thereupon to baptise them , this to my apprehension hath not a shadow of consequence . but saith mr. s. . it 's granted that the calling of the jews shall be according to gods election and first love ; and that gods election shall more fully take hold of the jews at their recalling , then of any nation : but yet still the argument is of no force to prove that their re-ingraffing and so ours is onely or firstly into the invisible church ; for they are elected as well to be a visible church , as to be partakers of inward graces ; and their re-ingraffing must be specially and firstly into the visible church from which they were broken off , or else there will be no correspondence between their rejection and re-ingraffing . answ. yet the arg . is of force to prove it is into the invisible church , so as none are re-ingraffed but the elect and partakers of inward graces , though it were granted that their re-ingraffing be specially and firstly into the visible church : yea , mr. ss reason is against himself , for if their re-ingraffing be not firstly and specially into the invisible church by faith , there wil be no correspondence between their re-ingraffing and rejection , which was firstly and specially from the invisible church by unbelief . mr. bl. answers thus . his election , love , and gifts of calling , did at the first put them into a visible churchstate and condition , deut. . , . and the same love , election , and gifts of calling , now they are broken off , doth re-ingraff them ; if this argument hold , it was an invisible church that was brought out of the land of aegypt . answ. according to mr. bl. the apostle should mean that the election and love , rom. . . are meant of such election and love as may be to them that perish , and such a calling and gifts as may be lost , for such the election into a meer visible churchstate and condition , and calling , and love , and gifts are , which mr. bl. p. . will have to be the meaning of the apostle here . but this is not meant here , . because that election , love , gifts and calling are here meant , as are from the covenant of the redeemer , v , . and whereby all israel shall be saved ; this is manifest from the connexion , the words v. , . being a confirmation of the proposition all israel shall be saved , v. . from the covenant to turn away impieties from jacob , and to take away their sins , for this reason , because they are beloved according to the election and calling of god ▪ which are unchangeable . but such salvation , election , love , gifts and calling never happen to them that perish , the covenant , turning away from impieties , and taking away sins , belong onely to them who are eternally saved ; therefore they are not an election , love , gifts , and calling which put into a meer visible churchstate and condition . . such gifts and calling of god are not here meant which are revocable , or of which god repents ; for to be without repentance is to be without revocation , or change : but the gifts and calling which are into a mee● visible churchstate , are revocable and with repentance , as both the scripture and experience shews , therefore they are not here meant . . that calling and election are meant here which are ascribed to god in the passages where there is speech of gods election and calling of persons before in the th . th . and th . chapters ; for it is manifest ▪ that the dispute about election and calling of the jews and gentiles , ch . , , . arose from the words of the apostle , rom. . , , &c. but the election and calling in all the passages signifies such an election and calling as is to eternal life and righteousness , as is manifest from rom. . , , . rom. . , , , , . rom. . , . therefore not an election or calling into a meer visible churchstate . . that calling and election is meant here , which is usually , if not always , meant by the apostles in their writings . for it 's likely paul would speak here in the sense in which the word is commonly used , there being no cogent reason to the contrary . but the words election and calling in the apostles writings are taken usually , it not always , for election and calling to righteousness and eternal life , as may appear by these places , cor. . , , , , , , . & . , , . ephes. . , . & . , . gal. . , . & . , . phil. . . col. . , . thes. . & . . & . . thes. . . & . , . tim. . . & . . tim. . . & . . tit. . . heb. . . & . . james . . pet. . , . & . & . . pet. . , . jude●● ●● revel . . . therefore the meaning is in like manner , rom. . , . that which mr. bl. alledgeth from deut. . , . doth not weaken this . for though it prove that which is not denied , that there is an election of a people to a visible churchstate ; yet it proves not such an election and love to be meant rom. . . nor by my argument doth it with any colour of reason follow , that the church brought out of aegypt was the invisible church , because they are said to be chosen , deut. . , . any more then because judas is said to be chosen by christ , john . . therefore election , rom. . . is into a meer visible churchstate or apostleship . but mr. bl. after his calumny of my dis service to the anti arminians ▪ wiped away before , tels us that the apostle there delivers an universal proposition , and ap●lies it to such election , love , and gifts that belongs to bodies or nations ▪ yet it is a truth that equally holds , when it is applied to election to salvation , and with just warranty is applied by divines to that purpose . answ. it is not true that the apostle delivers , rom. . . an universal proposition concerning any election , love , calling ▪ gifts , for then it would be false , there be many gifts and callings of god which are not without repentance in the apostles sense ; but a proposition of the gifts and calling which are to salvation , according to that love and election which are to everlasting salvation according to the covenant mentioned v. . . and therefore those divines who understand it of election , love , gifts and calling to a meer visible churchstate and condition , have no warranty to apply it to prove that election and perseverance which the text , if they speak true , speaks not of ; and the argmuent from thence for that purpose is utterly enervated by that interpretation , sith the assumption is by it made confessedly false , if the argument be thus framed , that decree is immutable , and that gift and calling of god do certainly continue which the apostle saith are without repentance . but the apostle saith the decree of election to eternal life , and the gift of taking away sins ▪ and the calling which is inward are without repentance . ergo. as for pareus his forming it as from the less to the greater , it is , as for the most part such arguments are , liable to many exceptions ; and in this matter hath no strength ; for then it would follow , that if gods gift and calling to visible churchstate is without repentance , calling to the office of a presbyter , which is more , is without repentance . i deny not but commentators do speak some of them as mr. bl. alledgeth , and some doubtfully of which election and calling to understand it , and some speak disjunctively as if it were meant of either ; and some one while means it of the one , and another while of the other . but it is not worth while to search into or set down their words . it is sufficient that i have demonstrated that i● must be meant of such election , love , gifts and cal●ing as are to saving holiness , and righteousness , and eternal life . yet those which i alledged as writing against the arminians , and understanding it of the decree of election un●o life and perseverance in saving grace , mr. bl. denies not that i have ●ightly cited them , onely he will not have ames so peremptory as i am , by reason of some words of his , from which mr. bl. doth most falsely infer thus , [ so that it appears according to him that they spake truth in the denial of this to be meant of the unchangeable decree of eternal election , ] which they who read ames his words in his coronis , art . . cap. . may easily discern . i add to tho●e i cited in the first part of this review , sect . . pag. ● . dr. owen , of perseverance , c. . § . . &c. dr. kendal , of redemption , ch . . pag. ● , &c. the reason why some wil not have it meant of election and effectual calli●g to salvation is their mistake , that particular persons may not be said to fall away from such ele●●ion and cal●ing . for though it be true , that the particular persons never fall away from their personal election and calling , yet they may fall away from that election and calling to eternal life which they in their ancestor● had ; which sense i have shewed to be agreeable to the apostles meaning , in the first part of this review , sect . . and dr. twiss in his vind. grat. l. . err . . sect . . acknowledgeth that when the apostle saith , rom. . . they shall be graffed in , he means it not of those individuals in their persons , but their posterity . but mr. bl. argues thus . the fathers for whose sake they are beloved are the ancient fathers from whom after the flesh they did proceed , specially abraham , isaac , and jacob , the word is for the fathers : then election must needs be understood of an external grace of the covenant , whereby god chose this nation to himself , according to that of moses , deut. . . unless we are elect in abraham to salvation and not in christ. and abraham , isaac , and jacob are our mediators of reconciliation : and when the apostle saith , we are ●ccepted in the beloved , ephes. . . it is to be understood of acceptation in abraham : and we are to conclude our prayers , not in and through christ but abraham , isaac , and jacob ; we are not for their sakes beloved to salvation . answ. . that the election , deut. . . must be understood of an external grace of the covenant , needs bettr proof then mr. bl. brings . for god may be said to choose a nation , and yet not choose every one of the nation , it being usual , as mr cobbet observes , just. vindic . part . ch . . that things said of a people collectively are meant of the greater or better part distributively . . the absurdities will press mr. bl. as well as me . for if , as mr. bl. saith , the election and love be to a meer visible churchstate and condition , we may say by the same reason which he useth , we are elected in abraham to churchstate , and not in christ ; he is our mediator of reconciliation ; we are accepted in abraham the beloved ; we are to conclude our prayers not in and through christ , but abraham , isaac , and jacob , which are absurd : we are not beloved for their sakes in the sense in which we are beloved in christ , to visible churchstate , any more then to salvation . . though we are not for their sakes or for them beloved to salvation , yet the jews are . . we are elect in christ as the first-born among many brethren , rom. . . as the head of many members , as the mediator , the second adam , by whom the life we are elected to is conveyed , in which sense we are said to be accepted or favoured , he is the mediator of reconciliation by his bloud , we conclude our prayers in and through him as the high priest of our profession : but they that say , the jews are beloved to salvation for the fathers sakes , or for abraham , isaac , and jacob , need not , nor do mean it in these senses ; but thus , they are beloved to salvation by reason of gods covenant to them , exod. . . levit. . . their fidelity to him , nehem. . . so that abraham was called the friend of god , james . . which are no whit derogatory to the prerogative of christ , in whom alone we are elected , reconciled , favoured , heard , as the onely begotten son of god , and the alone mediator between god and man. what mr. bl. desires me to consider that moses interceded for the whole body of israel , exod. . . and that god promiseth to remember the whole nation under suffering , levit. . . is nothing for mr. bls. purpose . for if it were granted , that moses interceded for the whole nation , yet it follows not , that gods promise was to every individual of that nation , levit. . . and if it were , yet it follows not that it must be so rom. . , , , . nor if it were granted ( though the contrary is to me more probable ) doth it follow , that the election , love , gifts , calling , cannot be to salvation , but must be into a meer visible churchstate and condition , or , as mr. bl. terms it , external grace of the covenant , sith there is no absurdity , that i know of to conceive , that at the calling of the jews every individual jew shall be a true believer , and saved . nor doth my opinion impute any errour to moses or paul , but mr. bl. doth in this as in other things , egregiously triffle as one that writes without heed of what he saith . my th . argument is this . if the ingraffing both of jews and gentiles be the fruit of gods mercy , the breaking off by shutting up in unbelief , then the ingraffing is into the invisible church by election and giving faith : but the former is true , vers . , , . ergo , the later . mr. s. rather flights then answers this argument . for he takes no notice of that part of the medium , [ the breaking off by shutting up in unbelief , ] which shews what mercy it was by which they were ingraffed , to wit , converting and reconciling mercy proper to the elect , as the very opposition of the terms shews . v. . they were before shut up in unbelief by severity , now by mercy they are brought to faith and favour , but tels me , this proposition is unsound on which the argument is built , what ever is a fruit of gods mercy is from election and ingraffing into the invisible church , because that health , &c. are fruits of gods mercy . but ●t is not true , the proposition on which the argument is built is as hee ●●ith , but thus ; that mercy which doth take away the shutting up in unbelief , is converting reconciling mercy from election , whose effect is the ingraffing into the visible church by giving saving faith , ergo , if the ingraffing , &c. and this mr. s. hath not disproved , nor do i think can be disproved . mr. bl. saith , he hath answered this before , and onely desires mee to give him a comment on hos , . , . but first if he have answered this before , then his answer is also refelled , and it is shewed that the mercy here is more then the priviledge of a visible churchstate . . mr. bls. desire i shall not re●use to yeild to , when i finde any argument drawn by him from hos. . , . to make void my argument from rom. . , , . but to my additional confirmation of my arguments in my apology p. . that the whole scope and series of the chapter and the frequent mention from v. . to . of termes importing election , reprobation and their consequents , with the apostles exclamation v. . do fully shew the ingraffing to be into the invisible church , by election and giving faith ; mr. bl. replies thus . mr. t. might do well to tell us what ingraffing is by election : i take that to be an immanent act in god , which is terminated in himself , and not on the creature ; such expressions do not sute with mr. t. his high pretendings to scholastical learning . answ. where and when i made high pretendings to scholastical learning , if mr. bl. had informed mee it might have done mee good to humble mee for such folly , but this dealing of mr. bl. by ●uips to mis-represent me as an arrogant man , hath no better appearance then a shew of a malevolent minde in him towards mee . i hope i have so much scholastical learning as to vindicate my own writings , from his and others cavils , and sure i am that what ●ver my learning bee , master bl. hath shewed more of a surcostical bitter spirit in his writings against mee , then of scholastical learning , in which how much hee is defective , i had rather mr. b and such birds as are of the same feather should tell him then my self . as for this exception it 's so frivolous , as that it deserves not a reply . i did not say the ingraffing is by election alone but by election and giving faith , which sometimes i do express sutably to ephes. . . thus [ by giving faith according to election ] and even in the first part of this review , pag. . where i repeat this very thing , and do often tell what the ingraffing is which is by election , to wit effectual calling , converting , reconciling , giving saving faith , so that mr. bl. were hee not disposed to quarrel , might have omitted this exception . as for that hee takes election to bee an immanent act in god , so do i , and conceive that the will or counsel of god acts . . is an immanent act in god , and yet it is said that david having served his generation by the will or counsel of god fell asleep , and though election as the will of god be not in another subject then himself , yet it is terminated on the creature as the object , it being one of those acts of god that are ad extra though not extra , which mee thinks mr. bl. should understand , if age and disuse have not worn out his logick and theologick notions . mr. blake saith of me , to have made up his argument he should have taken in by way of assumption ; the jews in their fall from church-fellowship , cannot bee said to be rejected , hardened , given to a spirit of slumber , or that their eyes are darkened , or that they have stumbled ; and that for their call into church-fellowship , neither election or grace shall have any hand in it : this must bee his reasoning if there bee any shew of reason in his heap of words , and then all men will admire mr. ● . while he is in his admiration of mr. m. i shall say no more but that hee is very weak both in divinity and logick , that cannot presently upon the first ●ight discover the weakness , and return a satisfying answer to this flourish of words . answ. the words were as few as the matter would bear , without any flourish at all . the assumption would not have been as mr. bl. makes it , but thus , that the jewes by bare fall from visible church fellowship , cannot bee said to be rejected , hardened , given to a spirit of slumber , or that their eys are darkned , or that they have stumbled . ( for a person may fall from visible churchfellowship onely by excommunication , putting out of the synagogue , and yet bee neither rejected by god , nor hardened , nor given to a spirit of slumber , or his eys darkened , or he stumble , as in the case of the man born blinde , joh. . , . ) and that the election and grace mentioned rom. . , . are meant there or in any part of the apostles discourse of these thing● , rom. , , . ch . of election into meer visible churchfellowship , or grace that extends to no more then outward priviledges of churchstate is not likely . and if any do take this reasoning to bee weak , i must needs say that i or hee are stark blinde in divinity and logick , and omitting my admiration of mr. m. who i think after his edition of his defence gave over the dispute , i admire not that mr. bl. ( who●e superficialness i perceive plainly enough ) but that any man that accurately studies rom. . should interpret the ingraffing there meant of the bringing of persons into a meer visible churchstate by a dogmatical faith , or outward ordinance without giving saving faith according to gods election . mr. bl. proceeding to vindicate mr g. recites the words of the first part of this review pag. . and then saith , it is well that mr. t. yeilds so much , and being n●w imbarqued in this business , if hee did not not plus consulere ●amae quam conscientiae , hee would yeild more , and freely confess that the mercy here is no other , nor no more then that which is general , and that the faith here is historical and not saving ; i am sure there is enough to convince but it is god alone that must perswade . answ. if mr bl. had never known me , this censure might have been the more excusable , but his many criminations and censures , and misreports of me in his preface to his book of the covenant and throughout his book do fully assure me he hath an evill eye towards me , and that he is indisposed to put any fair construction on what i do or write . of which malignity in him i know no reason , but my opposing his da●ling of infant perfusion , for sprinkling it seems he ownes not , and baptism he useth not . as for what hee here saith o● me , if this reply of mine acquit me not , i have no remedy but to appeal to my witness in heaven . i do again protest , that i see no reason to convince me of that mr. bl. here saith , but abundant reason to the contrary , if mr. bl. or any other shall detect my errour , i am willing to be convinced and perswaded ; but such fli●ting , quipping answers as mr. bl. makes , i shall hereafter pass by as the froth and some of an angry satyrist , not the dispute of a scholastique . he saith of me , his reason to assert it to bee meant of saving faith , is worthy of consideration , being opposed to their former hardning , &c. and is there not a hardning that reaches so high to hold men from so much as faith historical 〈◊〉 dogmatical , as well as there is an hardning to hold men from that which is saving ? answ. there is , but no hardning meant rom. . or . which doth not deprive of saving faith together with historical , and consequently the shewing mercy opposite must bee not a giving an historical fai●h onely , but also a saving faith . mr. bl. adds , the va●l is ( as the apostle tels us ) on the heart of the jews to this day , when moses is read cor. . . and does not this vail so far blind their eyes that they see not so much as with faith historical ? that which the jews to this time want , is that from which they fell , let mr. t. take that into consideration ; but to this day they want even a faith historical , had they kept faith in christ so far as an assent in their whole nation , so that they had past in name and dignity for christians , and had yet wanted among them that faith that was saving , then there had been colour for what mr. t. saith . but their being as it is , and as it is here affirmed , i cannot but wonder at the vail before mr. t. his eyes , that what is thus clear , should be thus held from him . answ. i shall forbear wondering hereafter , forasmuch as i discern the reason of mr. bls. wrangling , prejudice out of his affection to his brat termed birth-priviledge , makes him imagine a vail over mine eyes , which is indeed over his own . what colour or proof rather is for my saying is shewed before . my argument is no whit infringed though the state of the jews were such as that they wanted both historical and saving faith , hardning being opposed to giving saving faith , and no person said to be hardned but he that wants saving faith , and he that wants being hardned though hee should have historical , so that if hardning be a privation of both , yet it hath its denomination onely from the privation of saving faith . and for mr bls. reason hee would have me consider , first the conclusion of it is not to the present point . for if the jewes might not bee said to fall from a saving faith , yet their unbelief mentioned rom. . . might bee and was a privation not onely of historical faith but also a saving ( else mr. bl. must say they had a saving faith though not historical , which is a palpable absurdity , for then a person may have a saving faith and not an historical , and the unbelieving jewes had a saving faith ) and consequently the shewing mercy must bee not onely a conferring an historical faith , but also a saving . . the ma●or is not true universally taken . all that which the jews to this time want is that from which they fell ; for they want their temple , sac●ifi●es , priesthood , &c. and yet they fell not from them . third the argument is thus retorted , that which the jewes to this time want , is that from which they fell , let mr. bl. take that into considera●ion . but to this day they want even a saving faith , ergo , they fell from a saving faith . such ill hap hath mr. bls. arguing : yet as one whose fingers did itch to bee dealing with mee hee scribbles further . whereas i alledged ephes. . . to prove the unbelief of the gentiles in times past mentioned rom . . was not onely a privation of historical , but also of saving faith , mr. bl. puts these frivolous questions to mee , were they not without a dogmatical ●aith ? were they not aliens and strangers so much as from the commonwealth of israel ? to which i answer , they were ; and ask him , whether they were not without a saving faith ? and if so the shewing mercy is opposed to the no● giving a saving faith , and mr. bls. position most absurd , that the faith here ( to wit rom . where alone the word faith is used in that chapter ) is historical and not saving . mr. bl. adds , and though in some sense every regenerate professing christian is without christ , without god , without hope , respective to saving fruition , and acceptable communion with him , yet that text is manifestly abused when it is applied to any of christian profession . the whole must be carried on in a due application of it , gentiles in the flesh , aliens from the common-wealth of israel . answ. though i finde no emendation of it in mr. bls. table of errata , yet i do conceive [ regenerate ] is printed for [ unregenerate ] otherwise the speech were more grosly false then i shall imagine mr. bl. would thus deliver . and it beeing so , i conceive no abuse of it to have applied it to meer visible professors of christianity among the gentiles , if the words were added to it which mr. bl. would have joyned . for they were gentiles in the flesh , aliens from the commonwealth of israel , without christ , without god , without hope . nevertheless i know not what this makes to infringe my inference from ephes. . . to prove the unbelief rom. . . to have been a privation of saving faith . master bl. denies not this sense of the words , that the ephesians in their infidelity were without christ , without god , without hope , respective to saving fruition and acceptable communion with him , and sure they that were thus were without saving faith , except mr. bl. imagine they had a saving faith , who had not so much as an historical : nor is it denied the same state to bee described rom. . . which is described ephes. . . and therefore my inference stands notwithstanding this passage of mr. bl. he further saith , and for his observation , that it occasioned the apostles exclamation , o altitudo ! o the depth , &c. v. . sure the goodness of god bringing the gentiles who were dogs , matth. . . unto the glory of children , and the severity of god in casting out the children of the kingdome , matth. . . might well occasion this exclamation in the apostle , as he had called to behold the goodness and severity of god , on them which fell severity , but towards the gentiles goodness he might well cry out upon the greatest turne of providence that ever the world saw ( which in ages past had beene hid , and the angels desired to looke into ) o the depth ! &c. answ. true : but was this goodness or severity in respect of a meer visible churchstate ? or was it not also in respect of their state in the invisible church ? sure the thing had not been so admirable , if it had not been in respect of the later as well as the former ; and writers and preachers usually apply it to silence the objection against absolute election and reprobation concerning their everlasting state , as if it imported unmercifulness and injustice incompetent to god ; and it seems so like the passage , rom. . , , , , , . that me thinks if mr. bl. did compare them , he should judge both places meant of the same thing : and which i● an irrefragable argument , it is clear rom. . . hath reference to what he said before , v. , . which is manifestly meant of their estate of salvation and reprobation , and therefore must be so meant v. . what mr. bl. adds concerning my speech about mr. g. and the assembly , is through mistake , as if i had censured mr. g. as like plautus his miles gloriosus in his disposition ; whereas i censured him onely in respect of those words there used , which was right however in other things he were without gall , from which nevertheless that in his writings against me he was not altogether free , is shewed in my apology , sect . . and for mr. bls. conceit , that where one degree of boasting is ascribed to mr. g. one hundred will be ascribed to me by them that read our writings ▪ it is not unlikely , if they see through mr. bls. spectacles , which make things seem black that are white , and make small ●illocks seem hills : but i find cause to make it part of my letany , from the unrighteous and hard censures of mr. bl. mr. b. and others of my antagonists , good lord deliver me . what i said of the assembly shewed no more boldness then was meer , it is too apparent by the dealing with mr. coleman , my selfe , and others , that the stream of voices in the assembly went to establish all after the scottish mode , without a through examination of what was alledged to the contrary , except what was objected were backed by a very considerable party in parliament , or army , or city of london . it is no more boldness in me to assault such an assembly , then it was in a particular dissenting brother . my weapons i ass●ult them with ▪ are such as the holy scriptures yeeld , and my interpretations such as my adversaries themselves give , and my arguments and answers are the very same which they use in other disputes against prelates and arminians ; and with th●se weapons which m. bl. disdainfully like a goliath , terms reeds or bulrushes , i am no more afraid to assault the assembly of divine at westminster , then to assault bakewel , hussey , and such like scriblers . to my th argument from parallel places , mr. bl. tels me , mr. hudson , pag. . hath not onely affirmed , but proved , that the text cor. . . is meant of the church as visible . answ. i have viewed the place , and find mr. hudson speaking thus in answer to the objection : but this is meant of the invisible company of believers he saith , it is true , but it is spoken of them as visible . so that mr. hudson affirms the same with me , that cor. . . must be understood of the invisible church , yet in respect of that which is there said of them , something is spoken of them as visible . to my allegation of ephes. . . that the gentiles were made fellow-heirs of the same body , and co-partakers of the promise of god in the gospel ; not by an outward ordinance , but by giving of faith according to election : ergo , the ingraffing rom. . . parallel to it , is not by an outward ordinance , b●t by giving faith according to election : mr. bl. thus in his flirting fashion answers , oh that mr. t. spake truth ; then ( as the apostle saith of israel at their restauration , all israel shall be saved , rom. . . ) all england in statu quo , should be saved in the sense that mr. t. would understand salvation , whether we be by descent brittains , saxons , or normans , we are gentiles , and consequently by his divinity partakers of the gospel by faith according to election . answ. not so , unless by gentiles were meant every gentile , which a fre●h man in the university would correct mr. bl. in , who knows an indefinite proposition not to be equipollent to an universal incontingent matter . it is said , acts . . th●n hath god given to the gentiles repentance unto life ; yet it follows nor , he hath done so to every gentile . mr. bl. adds . sure i am this text is meant of gospel glory in ordinance dispensed by the apostles ministery . answ. sure i am , that to be fellow heirs , and of the same body , and partakers together of his promise in christ by the gospel , imports more then a meer visible churchstate , even an estate of righteousness , union with christ , and inheritance of eternal life : and i doubt not but many of his auditors would correct mr. bl. if he taught otherwise at any lecture of christians of ordinary understanding . yet he he saith further , and as to the jews appertained the glory and the promises , rom. . , . so now the glory and promises belong to the gentiles : and as many jews as fell not off , still enjoy this glory with the gentiles , and so both make one new man , ephes . . . the visible state of the jews was a distinct body from the gentiles : now upon this glorious call they are one new man , or new body . answ. the glory and promises meant rom. , . did never belong to the gentile believers in the christian church , nor do the believing jews still enjoy that glory with the gentiles , though both make one new man , yet not the meer visible church is that one man , or body , but the church invisible reconciled to god by christs death , as the text it self shews , ephes. . , , , , . mr. bl ▪ tels me , the ingraffing is not by giving faith of election , nor is it an act of admission into the visible church by an outward ordinance ; but it is by gods giving of faith in and by gospel ordinances , to give assent to gospel mysteries , and make profession of them . answ. i have proved before it is more then the giving of an historical faith , however this concession in the close serves my purpose . for if this be the ingraffing , then they onely that thus do assent and make profession , are ingraffed : but infants do not thus assent and make profession ; ergo , they are not ingraffed , and consequently the text rom. . , . alledged by the assembly , mr. g. mr. m. &c. for admission of infants with parents as with the jews , is brought obtorto collo plainly against the meaning of it . what mr. bl. adds , that gal. . , , , . there is an ingraffing into christ mentioned , but none into the church , is as vain as the rest , there being no ingraffing into christ by faith , but it is also into the church invisible , who is christ mystical , cor. . the scriptures i have produced are proved to be meant of the church invisible , because the things said in those scriptures are such as agree to none other ; and they appear to be parallel by the indentity of the matter , all expressing the state of gentile believers upon their effectual cal●ing . it is mr. bls. false charge , that the reader will hereafter find me reasoning with my full strength against the force of all arguments a pari : this calumny is re●elled in the d . part of this review , sect . . as for my th . argument , whether the faith in the testimonies cited be meant of justifying , and the election to eternal life , needs no other decision then the very words , which i took from marlorat without searching into the authors own books because i had them not of my own , and i saw it needless to look further . if the words be ambiguous , the authors intended to deceive ; if elsewhere they speak against me , they gainsay themselves : neither of which mr. bl. should charge them with , if he regarded their credit . in mr. bls. arguments , sect . . the first is answered before in vindicating my th . argument . i deny the major of the d . which is answered in the d . part of this review , sect . . pag. , . in the d. the minor is false , that the priviledge of ingraffing is the priviledge of every member of the visible church : in that which is added to prove it to be the priviledge of ordinances , if the major be universal , it is false ; besides , the argument may be retorted . in the th . i deny the major , and have often answered the inference [ that then i must maintain falling away from true faith ] that by my exposition the falling away of particular persons from the true justifying faith they had in their own persons , is not maintained ; but the falling away of the people of one age from that which their predecessors in a former age had . in the th . if the minor be meant of a casting onely out of a visible churchstate , it is denied ; nor is it proved , matth . for the kingdome of god not onely notes the outward churchstate , but also the rule of christ in their hearts , and protection of them by his spirit . in the th . the conclusion is granted . that which mr. bl. saith , that the body of believing jews and christian gentiles , called by the apostle one new man , ephes. . . are capable of no other ingraffing then that which is visible , and the body of them entitled new , as the jews before , onely to priviledges of ordinances , is not true . nor is it true , that in my speech recited by him pag. . is taken for granted , . that the whole visible body of christian nations are truly ingraffed into the church invisible , i● by whole body be meant all the parts , o● every part . . nor is it true , that it is taken for granted by me , that in after ages the same body , though not the same persons , may be cast off , and yet no particular person rejected , without this explication , that no particular person who was an elect person or true believer , is rejected . but against this d . imagined grant of mine , mr. bl. thus argues . the d . must be examined ; this church thus cut off , either continues in the invisible body as before , or else is degenerate by the death of those numerical persons , that made up a body invisible , and succession of others that are no more then v●sible members . if it continue in the invisible body till the time of breaking off , then mr. t. is not holpen with his distinction of a consistent and a fluent being , nor with hi● similitude of euphrates ; for so a church invisible is still broken off and rejected , and falling away is maintained . if it be degenerate , then . they fall off themselves , and are not broken off by god ; their own sin th●n should be noted , nor gods act as their punishment : but their breaking off , or rejection is the act of god laying waste his vineyard , isa . taking away his kingdome , matth. . removing the candlestick , ephes. . . ( it should be revel . . . ) all noting the act of god punishing upon the peoples act of sinning , which is of the church , not invisible , but visible . . for the similitude of cyrus his turning of euphrates , that he turned the same river that god created , this will not serve mr. t. his purpose ; for euphrates continues a river of the same kind and nature as it was at the first creation , and the church in his expression is changed from the invisible body of christ , to a visible company of bare professors . the church had changed her own channel . . mr. t. indeed grants the question , for he confesses that the church is visible that god breaks off ; and whatsoever it had been , now it hath no more then a visible interest ; so that a visible church falls off , and gentiles are ingraffed into that which is visible . sect. . m bl. adds these words that wild assertion pag. . that the branches were broken off from election and true faith , and the invisible church in which they were , with this limitation ; understanding it not of the same singular persons , but the same people or nation , is a thread that runs through almost the whole , and enough i suppose is spoken to it : and when he shall shew me an invisible nation ( of which he speaks ) from which there may be a breach ; i will either yeeld ●p all , or he shall hear more . till then i shall look on his words as such a — unworthy the pen of such a writer ; an invisible nation it must be , a visible nation cannot be cut off from the church invisible . answ. speak out man , let me know the worst you can say , i expect no favour from you having found neither charity nor equity in your writings against mee . the assertion is such as will endure your strongest battery , what you say here is merre wrangling , like a sophister perverting my words when they are truly repeated , though thy are very plain . the argument is quite from the matter . the conclusion is , that the church cut off is not the invis●ble church but visible , which is not contradictory to my asserti●n ; who never asserted that the church cut of● was the invisible church , but often asserted the contrary , alwayes making the olive tree the invisible church to abide the same , though some branches were broken off , others were ingraffed , as in the first part of this review section . page . with this explication page . yet not as a rock that abides the same , but as a river which is in flux , and i often deny in express termes , as pag. , . that my meaning was that the church of god is broken off from the invisible church ; but this i say , that the nation of the jews , of which the body or most part in some ages were in the invisible church as branches in the olive in a continued succession , in the time of the apostle that people , to wit the most part of that nation were broken off from the invisible church or olive tree , in which that people in the individual persons of a former age did stand . which thing having been so often and so plainly expressed by mee in that book which mr. bl. takes on him to answer , it is an extremely shamefull abuse hee offers mee in going about to refute that as my assertion which is disclaimed by mee . now this being premised and the term [ this church ] ( as it should be ) being changed into [ this people or nation ] that is a great or the greatest part of them , i answer they are broken off from the invisible church , in that the numerical persons that made up the invisible church in a former age being dead , the successors degenerated from their faith , and were neither visible professors nor invisible believers in christ : which not believing was their own act from their own will , yet consequent on gods act of rep●obation , and the breaking off , to wit the deprivation of them from the membership and priviledges of his invisible church , was gods act of punitive justice for their unbelieving . and thus the similitude of cyrus his turning euphrates , serves my purpose , to shew how i am free from holding arminian apostasie , the same people like that river beeing turned from their old channel , though not the same persons ; not as mr. bl. falsly chargeth mee , that in my expression the church is changed from the invisible body of christ , to a visible company of bare professours , or that the church had changed her own channel . nor do i grant the question , or confess that the church is visible that god breaks off , and whatsoever it had been , now it hath no more then a visible interest ; so that a visible church falls off , and gentiles are ingraffed into that which is visible ; but what i say is of the jewish people , who had not so much as a visible interest when god brake them off , or they fell off , and the gentiles are ingraffed into the invisible church in their stead . nor need i shew an invisible nation broken off , it being neither true that i spake of an invisible nation , nor that a visible nation cannot bee cut off from the church invisible , but these are mr. bls. dotages for want of heeding mine and his own words ( as i conceive ) through hast to insert some thing against me in that book ere it was printed . which is so far from being enough to answer me , that a● solomon said of him that answered a matter afore he heard it , so it may be said o● mr. bl. answering me afore he had studied my writings , he hath said enough to shew his folly and to work his shame . my candour p. . is ordinary where there is the like cause : i conceive the election of bodies , societies , or nations , in the sense i have often given , may bee as well into the invisible church of true believers , as into the visible church of true professors , and that the election of the gentiles , by which they were ingraffed , was into the invisible church of true believers . of calvins and b●cers words i shall say no more having not ●he books . mr. bl. p. . adds . mr. g. syllogistically concluding that the seed of christians by a pure gospel covenant should enjoy outward church priviledges , mr. t. sect . . replies , that it is not either formally or equivalently the thing to be proved , which is , that the christian jews and their seed were in infancy to be baptised . but by his favour , he that concludes the whole ; concludes the parts of the whole . outward church-priviledges is the whole , baptism is a part of the whole ; concluding church priviledges he concludes baptism , as hee that can conclude mr. t. is at lempster or sudbury , concludes also that his head and shoulders are . and if any priviledge bee concluded , then baptism is concluded , which is the leading one among church-priviledges . answ. omitting mr. bls. snarling at my dwellings in lemster and ledbury ( for so hee means ) i observe how well he pleads for mr. g. who would have him conclude , that the seed of christians by a pure gospel covenant should enjoy in infancy outward church-priviledges as a whole , and consequently baptism as a part . which if it were mr. gs. arguing , hee should by the same reason have concluded their enjoying the lords supper , and church office . nor is the other plea much better : for some priviledge may be concluded , as laying on hands for a sign of prayer as christ did , and yet not baptism . for though baptism be the leading priviledge after a person is brought to the faith , yet afore a person is a believer , if there be any leading church-priviledg competent to infants , it must be laying on of hands , the scripture giving no hint of any other . the distinction i give in the first part of my review , sect . . p. . is handsome , being set down as it is by me there , though mr. bl. carp at it , for those priviledges which mr. g. termes gospel priviledges , and i term so in answer to him as keeping his term , i may say of them ( if they may be so called , and not rather legal . ) mr. bs. words , the breaking off from the church is an unavoidable consequence of the revoking of the gift of churchmembership , and the repealing of the ordinance : therfore where there is no breaking off from the church , there is no such revoking or repealing ; do justifie the title of the th . sect . of the first part of my review . that the breaking off rom. . . was not by repeal of an ordinance concerning infants visible churchmembership as mr. b. conceive , which mr. bl. opposeth with me . and his first reason , the deserving cause of that breaking off is unbelief ▪ now unbelief is not in infants , much less proper to infants , serves to prove that the infants of unbelievers are not broken off , for unbelief is not in them , and that infants of believers are not graffed in . for as the deserving cause of breaking off i● unbelief which is not in infants , so the means of graffing in by the rule of opposites is faith , which is not in infants . and when in his d . reason he saith , this breaking off was of the general body of the church of the jews , that is the major part . now infants were not the generality , they made not up the major part of that body , this serves to answer what mr. bl. before p. . and elsewhere would infer , that if the gentiles or the body of them be elect then all must be so , whereas the body according to himself may stand for the major part or generality , which he denies infants to be , and therefore the body and gen●rality may be ingraffed and not infants . mr. bls. exceptions against my distinctions of breaking off because breaking off implied a former union are vain , for there may be a breaking off from that union which they had not in their own persons , specially when the breaking off is of a people , nor is it usual to term th●se acts privations of habits which take not away habits that were , but might have been , as when we are said to be redeemed , delivered from hell , to be cast out into outer darkness , matth. . . though never in heaven . but were not this right but non-sense , yet mr. ●ls exceptions against the distinctions is frivolous . for in those distinctions i do not set down the wayes of breaking off that were actually , but such as are imaginable , which is necessary when we go about to argue by a disjunctive syllogism , as all logicians know . yet what mr. bl. saith , excommunication is not the breaking off meant rom. . , . for that is the act of the church on some particular member ; but this here is the act of god , which is by taking away the kingdome , by removing their candlestick , departing with his presence , is right , if understood of the subtracting of the presence of his spirit , as well as his word . which is to be conceived , for the word was offered and preached to them when they were broken off , and therefore they were not broken off barely by subtracting that . besides the ingraffing is not by bare outward ordinances , for they were vouchsafed even to the broken off , and consequently the f●tness of the olive is not the bare priviledge of outward ordinances . and if it be not the churches act , but gods by which there is ingraffing , then infants are not ingraffed , who have no act of god to ingraff them , but onely that of the church or administratour of baptism . mr. bls. talk of the ordinance of infants visible churchmembership , begun in the great charter of heaven , and continued , is but vapouring ; mr. bl. mis recites mr. bs antecedent which was not as hee repeats it , that the jews were cast off for unbelief , but that none of the jews were broken off but for unbelief , which i denied , and mr. bls. exceptions is frivolous . but the text assignes unbelief , mr. t. assignes no other cause , then that must stand . to which i reply , and so it doth by my answer , and yet i do assign another cause , gods act of executing his decree of reprobation . to what i said , that the unbelief being positive rom. . . if none were broken off but unbelievers here meant , no infants no not of infidels that never heard of christ were broken off , he saith we easily yeild his conclusion , if he frame it in a syllogism ; that the infants of infidels that never heard of christ were never broken off . they could never be broken off that were never taken in , a branch of a bramble was never broken off from a vine or olive . answ. . they may be said to be broken off who were never taken in in their own persons , sure the abortives and stil-born were never taken into the visible church of the jews , and yet if other infants were broken off so were they , and if they were broken off though they were never taken in in their own persons but their ancestors , then the infants of infidel edomites might be said to be broken off , who were in esau , isaac , and abraham taken in : but they were not positive unbelievers , therefore other then positive unbelievers are broken off , which opposeth mr. b. . if infants of infidel edomites be not broken off , then according to mr. b. the ordinance of visible churchmembership is not in respect of them revoked and repealed , and consequently they are visible churchmembers according to the tenour of mr. bs. arguing . . if god will not punish the children for the fathers sins ( as mr. b. sai●h ) much less for a strangers , then he would not break off the unbelieving jews infant children , then they are visible churchmembers if mr. bs. arg . hold . . mr. bls. reason is answered before , by shewing how there may be privations of habits not in being ; and if his reason were good , and unbelieving jews infant could not be broken off , for that it was never in the visible church christian , and is the branch of a bramble . to my words , that the breaking off is not revoking of an ordinance about visible churchmembership , but the execution of the decree of reprobation in excluding them from the invisible church , m. bl. replies . by demand ; is there any such decree as to cast out of the church invisible ? i am sure that chapter hath no such thing . answ. there is a decree of breaking off from the church invisible , and that decree is plainly exprest in that chapter , v. , , , . for what comes to pass in time that god decrees . but they were broken off in time from the invisible church of believers , v. , , , , , , , . ly . saith he , i demand did they continue in the church visible , when upon execution of such a decree they were cast out of the church invisible ? or was their station in the visible church lost , and that of the invisible church never gained , and therefore they were not broken off from it . answ. they continued in the visible church jewish in opposition to the visible church christian , which they persecuted when they were cast away and broken off from the church invisible of true believers , according to gods decree of reprobation , though they never gained a station in the invisible church in their own persons . mr. bl. adds ly . the jews adhering to circumcision , &c. though god changed the rites moses gave them , refused the way of god , rejected the counsel of god in not being baptised , doting upon elements beggerly , and so their eys are held , that they see nothing into glorious gospel mysteries ; and this their unbelief is their breaking off from that visible church station , in which they sometimes stood , upon which account they are kept out from interest in the church invisible . and when this blindness shall be removed , they shall then be saved . answ. their unbelief was the means of their breaking off , but not of their breaking off from that visible church-station in which they sometimes stood ; the visible church-station in which they stood , is , as mr. bl. himself describes it , their station in the jewish church visible in the way of church ordinances , circumcision , sacrifices , &c. changed by god ; yet , as he himself faith , the jews stuck thereto , and therefore stood still in their former visible church-station . besides , their unbelief was not their breaking off from it . for . as mr. bl. said before the breaking off was gods act , so was not their unbelief . . according to mr. bl. breaking off was gods act of punishment , but it was no punishment but a mer● to be broken off from that visible church station . nor upon the account of their breaking off from that visible church station in which they sometimes stood , were they kept out from interest in the church invisible , but for their unbelief , and their keeping that church station . however , if they were kept out from interest in the church invisible , their breaking off is more then depriving of a visible churchstate , y●a the same which i assert , a breaking off from the invisible church . if there be any mazes in my th . and th . sections of the first part of my review , mr. b. led me into them , whom i was necessitated to follow : mr. bs. arguments are answered without confusion , and with so much strength , as neither mr. bl. nor mr. b. are able to refute . mr. bl. asserts contrary to me , that the christian visible church and the jewish are one and the same , . because japhet dwels in shems tents , which are the church visible , and this he saith needs no proof . but i require proof that by shems tents are meant , gen. . . the visible church jewish or christian. . because they are one sheep-fold , joh. . . and to the objection that it 's meant of the invisible church , because christ gives notes of those that were indeed his sheep , he saith , christ speaks to those that were disciples onely according to profession , and gives notes , joh. . . of disciples indeed ; and it is against all reason , that christ should in discourse point out the invisible church with the demonstrative this , and that to those that were malignant enough in the church visible , the pharisees , as appears in the close of the former chapter . and the mention of thieves creeping into it , hirelings employed in it , doth contradict it . the visible church of the jews and gentiles in which christ hath true sheep for whom he dies , and others that thieves and hirelings do deceive , makes up one sheep-fold . answ. the text rather proves the contrary as mr. bl. expounds it ▪ for if the fold be the visible church , and the other sheep are not of that visible church , then there is not one fold or church of jews and gentiles , but some sheep are of one fold ▪ or visible church , and some of another . as for mr. bls. arguments , they are of no force . for christ might well enough in his discourse point out the invisible church with the demonstrative [ this ] it being usual to point out invisible things by it , as joh. . , &c. this god is our god : and yet i do not think [ this fold , john . . ] notes the invisible church , but the people or nation of the jews , as piscator , grotius , &c. expound it , or rather the place . for the fold , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , notes not the sheep , and therefore not the church , but the place or country where or whence they are ▪ nor were deceivers , hirelings , thieves , or wolves , in or of the church meant joh. . , . though they might get into the place and company of them . nor is it truly translated by our translatours [ there shall be one fold , ] though ( which i somewhat marvel at ) they follow therein the vulgar latine : for the tigurine divines note , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek signifies the flock , not the fold . and beza excepts against the vulgar for it , and against the romanists , who would have that one f●ld to be rome . and grotius observes that the speech is proverbial , one flock one shepheard , to which he makes ezek. . . to be like . now that the one flock is not the meer visible church , but the invisible , it appears from many things in the text , that christ laid down his life for them , that they follow him , hear his voyce , his father and he knows them distinguishingly from others who do not believe because they are not of his sheep , that he gives them eternal life , none can pluck them out of his fathers hands , v. , , , , , , . out of which many protestant divines gather absolute election , particular redemption , effectual conversion and perseverance , against arminians . and diodati in his annot . on joh. . hath it thus . other sheep ] namely , the elect among the gentiles , who are to be called by the gospel , and incorporated into the church with the elect of the jewish nation . one body , cor. . . one new man , ephes. . . are the invisible church as is shewed before . matth. . . the kingdome of heaven is the kingdome of glory . matth. . . the kingdome of god is either the gospel by a metonymy , or the rule of god in their hearts , which was taken from them , that is that people , with whose ancestors it was , though not in those persons from whom it was taken . the visible church cannot be meant by the kingdome , for the fruits of the kingdome are not the fruits of the meer visible church , they are not bare profession , but real faith , holiness , and obedience , which are fruits of the spirit , not of the church ; or if of any church , of the invisible , not the meer visible . and though all invisible members bring forth fruit , yet that nation which had invisible members bringing forth fruit in a former age , may in an after age not bring forth fruit , and for that reason the church invisible may be taken from them , with whom it was in respect of their ancestors . to what i said , if the christian gentiles were graffed into the same visible church with the jews , then they should have been circumcised , &c. contrary to the determination acts . mr. bl replies , that is of no force , as though we may not be in the same kingdome , and yet under a new way of administration . law-givers on earth are sometimes pleased to change their laws , and so doth the law-giver of heaven ; or if he will limit his instance to circumcision , taking in no other laws . the same house may have a new door or porch . let mr. t. then know that he is in the same visible kingdome as abraham , isaac , and jacob , and their posterity after the flesh in israel were . answ. that which mr. bl. saith of the lameness of a kingdome under a new way of administration , of law givers changing their laws , of gods doing so , the identity of a house with a new door , is all granted ; but doth not take away the force of my reason , unless he could shew that any were graffed or to be graffed into the visible church jewish without circumcision , if he were a male . doth not mr. bl. maintain here in answer to my th . argument , that we are partakers of the same outward priviledges and ordinances with the jews , as he expounds rom. . . which opposeth his speech here of a new way ? doth not scripture term the jewish church or people , the circumcision , because those that were in that church , if male , were circumcised ? was not cornelius taken for unclean , and not of that church , because uncircumcised ? or was he ever in the jewish church after his baptism ? god might admit into the jewish church another way then by circumcision ; but mr. bl. cannot shew he or the jews did so . we are in the same invisible kingdome of true believers , and elect persons , with abraham , isaac , and jacob : but i do not yet know by any thing mr. bl. hath hitherto said , that i am in the same visible kingdome with abraham , isaac , and jacob , and their posterity after the flesh in israel . every one in the visible kingdome of israel after the flesh , did partake of the passeover ; the apostle saith , cor. . behold israel after the flesh : are not they which eat of the the sacrifices partakers of the altar ? which intimates that israel after the flesh did then when he wrote eat of the sacrifices , which christians did not , and therefore were not adjoyned to israel after the flesh , but in that very place , v , . distinguished from them . i take mr. bls. assertion to infer jad●ism : and if he or any other be not satisfied by my answer to mr. cobbet , i have more reason to impute it to their prejudice , then to defect in my answer . sect . lxxvi . my sense of matrimonial holiness ▪ cor. . . is vindicated from mr. blakes exceptions , vindic. faed . ch . . and mr. sydenhams exircit . ch . . mr. bl. ch . . avoucheth , still his sense of federal holiness , cor. . . i proceed to view what he saith . sect. . he sets down the apostles resolution and the reason of it rightly , which because it will tend much to the clearing of the sense which i give , i shall here transcribe it . let him not put her away , let her not leave him , unbelief breaks not the marriage bond , ●enders it not a nullity , religion being not of the substance of marriage . but what he saith , that their scruple and ground of their fear was the condition of their issue , lest that they should not be reckoned with the saints , but of the fellowship of the unclean gentiles , is fictitious . for the resolution of it rightly given before by mr. bl. himself , shews that their scruple arose not from fear of their childrens condition , but the nullity of their marriage , or unlawfulness of continuing in it by reason of the unbelief of the one party ; else the apostle had not made his resolution apposite to the removing their scruple . yea , mr. bls. own speech is against his own conceit , when he saith , reason is strong for this , for they well knew , as it is with the parent , so it is with the child for church state and condition , being a priviledge communicable and descendable from parent to child . if the parent were without , and of the gentiles , the child was ever such ; and in case they were of the people of god , their children were reckoned so in like manner : now parents being divided , the one holy , the other unclean , they feared that the issue would follow the worser part , a s●ain would lie upon them , they would be accounted unclean with the unbelieving parent . in a like case it had been so determined , ezra . . for if they well knew as it is with the parent so it is with the child for church-state , they knew that the believing parent being a churchmember , notwithstanding the yokefellows unbelief , their children were churchmembers , and so made no scruple of that , nor did paul , or need he to resolve that scrup●e about their childrens condition . yea , the very form of the apostles reasoning , else were your children unclean , doth plainly import , that they took the uncleanness of their children as an absurdity deprehended by them , and the contrary out of doubt ; as when , cor. . . the apostle saith , else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead , if the dead rise not ? he supposeth they took it for an absurdity , and the contrary out of doubt , that they that are baptized for the dead do it in vain . and though that the parents being divided they might fear that the issue would follow the worser part , a slain would lie upon them , yet that this stain should be in respect of their churchstate , could not be , if they well knew , as mr. bl. saith , as it is with the parent so it is with the child for churchstate , their own state in the church being manifest and certain . that the case of the corinthians and those , ezra . . is not like , is shewed in the first part of this review , sect . , . and will come into further consideration in that which follows . what mr. bl. adds , that the apostle tels them , that the unbelieving party doth not ( as they fear ) defile the issue , but is sanctified as to issue by the believer , is a meer fiction . for the apostle onely tels them they did not defile each other , but were sanctified to each other , by reason of their marriage state , not the faith of one party . and it is as false , that by reason of the parents faith the apostle tels them the child is not reckoned with the unbelieving parent who is a gentile , or that by unclean is meant a sinner of the gentiles , for the child of both parents gentile believers is still a gentile ; and if unclean be a sinner of the gentiles , by holy should be meant a jew by nature , which is a ridiculous conceit of mr. bls. as if the parent being a believer , the child were a jew by nature , and not a sinner of the gentiles . what he adds , that by believer in that place , cor. . . is meant a professor of the true faith , is vain , when the word believer is not used in that v. or any v. of that chapter about that matter , nor in that sense there . if to be sanctified , cor. . . be not to be set apart for god , as mr. bl. determines , then the term sanctified is not used in the common if not onely use of the word in scripture and prophane writers , and by him conceived here , as mr. b. asserts plain script . proof , &c. part . . ch . . p. . in answer to the d . sect . of the th . ch . of mr. bls. vindic faed . i say first , that i do not yeild that the corinthians had any scruple at all about their issue . . that my waving the examining of the occasion of the doubt resolved cor. . , , . was not because of any strength i found in mr. bls. allegations , but because i conceived neither of our opinions any other then a conjecture , and therefore the thing not material , nor in the framing my postscript had i time enough to do what i did after , not out of a mind to quarrel , but to shew the invalidity of mr. marshals ●h . arg . for his interpretation from his conceit of the occasion of the doubt , to have been by reading the fact mentioned ezr. . . mr. bl. here endeavors to confirm his exceptions against my allegation of cor. . . as the occasion of the doubt resolved cor. . . yet replies nothing to my answer to the two first , but to the d. saith . if their scruple was concerning conversing with their idolatrous yoke fellows , upon occasion of those words not to keep them company ; they must needs scruple their conversing with covetous , and extortioners , husbands or wives upon the same account ; and the apostle being silent in his answer , it is clear they were silent in their letter , and moving no scruple , they had no scruple ; when it is impossible for them to scruple one upon those words and not scruple all ▪ here is the wildest of fancies , when hee names four evils respective to civil social converse ; they should startle at one ( respective to their marriage society ) and question no more . to which i answer , it is neither impossible nor very unlikely , much less a wild fancy to imagine it of them , that the corinthians either did not scruple at using their covetous husbands , from cor. . , . though they did their idolatrous , if they did not heed the explanation after added v. . but onely the precept v. . and understood by fornicators idolaters , which they might easily do ; or if they did heed the explanation , yet did not conceive the like reason of relinquishing covetous yoke-fellowes as idolatrous , which they might well do , finding precepts against marriages with idolaters , none against marriages with them that were onely covetous and not idolaters , or they might not put the doubt of any other to the apostle then the idolatrous , because there were none that had covetous yokefellows who were not idolaters , and they wovld put the case onely about that which was the chief cause of their scruple , or because they could easily resolve themselves , that coveteousness and extortion from men do not so defile or are so inconsistent with marriage society as idolatry , and going a whoring from god , or they might put the case about the covetous as well as the idolaters , yet the apostle resolve the one onely expresly , because the resolving the one would resolve the other ▪ for which and for other reasons which might occur , though not discernable now , they well either startle at one onely , or not seek for resolution of any more , or if they did , yet paul resolve no more . and this being understood , the apostle needs not write to them as mr. bl. imagines he must , if my conjecture hold , and he took in every part of their scruple , though not what mr. bl. conceivs must be their scruple upon my conjecture . and hereby mr. bls. replies of wonder of my thoughts , of the apostles need of resolving both scruples , of the same evident ground of scruple concerning each , as one are plainly answered without reply to his taunting quips . the rest also is answered concerning b. howson , bunney , my uncle whately ; for it goes upon this supposition , that if the corinthians took occasion to doubt , from cor. . . then they must doubt whether they must live with fornicating yoke-fellows , and the apostle must resolve them , that if any brother have a wife that is a fornicator let him not put her away , which may not follow it by fornicators they understood onely idolaters and so doubted of them onely , or chiefly doubted of them , or resolving themselves otherwise propounded the doubt onely of them , or the apostle thought it needful onely to resolve concerning them , knowing that they might from his resolution of them be resolved of the rest , especially if the words let him not put her away , be not a prohibition forbidding him to put her away , but as a permission allowing him not to put her away , which hath its likelihood . but of this enough , if not too much about a conjecture not very material . my words in my postscript page . bare not mr. bl. in hand of any further answer then hath been given him , my censure of his absurd glosses , dictates , fl●rts incoherent , impertinent passages , little solid nervous disputing is delivered in language meet to express the truth . if mr. calamy and mr. vines in their epistle used not vain crackings of mr. marshal , and mr. bls. answer to my letter besides their misrepresentations of my examen , i never met with any . were their worth far greater then it is , and mine far less , i shall take liberty however my ingeny be questioned , as freely to censure mr. calamy and mr. vines , as i did in this , if they shall hereafter by their names and big words disparage the truth as they did in this . who of my nearest friends have told mee to my face , that they have been ashamed of that which i have written in my apology , whose honesty and judgement mr. bl. hath seeen attested under my own hand , i do not yet know , nor by ghess yet imagine . i know i have had censures hard enough of persons afore this controversie arose taken for my friends , and have laid them more to heart then i hope i shall do hereafter , finding upon the review of this dispute how unequal they have been , and if that eminently learned man who observed that i had donum impudentiae , were hee who wrote the second epistle to mr. baxter printed at the end of his confession of his faith , or any other did censure mee without well weighing my writings ( as i have many reasons to conceive they do ) as they are the more unrighteous , so they are deservedly the less regarded by mee . it was no impudence in mee to publish that men call on mee to answer mr. bl. or that his writing was commended when others had done it before . the most frivolous treatise that is , if it bee against me , yet it wants not some to magnifie it , mr. hussey's , mr. horns , dr. savages in latin and others want not applauders . i discern the spirit of paedobaptists even in those , whom i had taken to be moderate , judicious , friendly , yet in this point many of them shew neither equity to me , nor love to truth , nor judgement in according their opinion of paedobaptism with their former and later principles and practises . but i shall wait till god awake men , and specially those who have been so forward to reform discipline and ceremonies , and have by solemn covenant vowed to endeavour reformation according to gods word , that they may see from what they are fain . i go on . next mr. bl. speaks somewhat of the occasion of the doubt from ezra . . let me premise , saith he , this as an undoubted truth , that these corinthians had their scruples concerning their issue upon their marriage in this disparity . that which the apostle sati●fies in his answer , that the corinthians scrupled in their letter ; this no man can deny , for he writes to give satisfaction , as is plain v. . to their letter cases : but we see in the text that he satisfies as scruples concerning themselves , so also concerning their issue . to which i answer , the contrary is to me an undoubted truth , and so it was to dr. thomas goodwin , whose reason with mine should have had some answer from mr. bl. as for his syllogism the major is not certain , sith the apostle might give satisfaction on the by , about other things then the cases which they scrupled and wrote to him about . but the minor i do directly deny , and sith mr. bl. hath brought nothing to prove it , i slight it as a vain dictate . as for mr. bls. refusing to determine peremptorily , that the occasion of the scruple was that , ezra . & . it serves my turn to prove that no argument drawn from thence to conclude federal holiness of infants of believers is valid . i have often shewed how wee can imagine the corinthians hit upon their scruple , and were affected with it without respect to the fact , exra . & . and therefore need not again answer that question . mr. bls. not saying that the israelites and the corinthians case was wholly the same , tends to shew mr. marshals mistake , and the defect of his argument . and for what mr. bl. observes that the christian corinthians were under the moral law of moses and it was not so easie for them to determine that the command deut. . was judicial , i grant it , and thence infer that notwithstanding the words cor. . . yet they might not be so understanding in gathering consequences , or discerning the meaning of scriptures , but that they might conceive otherwise then rational men usually do , contrary to what mr. bl. suggests of them sect . . mr. bl. having censured rather then refuted dr. goodwins opinion of the childrens real holiness , cor. . . he tels me my interpretation is first childish , to tell the corinthians if their marriage society were adulterous , then their children were bastards , if their marriage were null children were illegitimate , this is too low a way of reasoning , such as every childe well knew before the apostle told them . to which i answer , if it were so easily understood it was the fitter for the apostles purpose to satisfie the tender consciences of doubting christians , who are best satisfied with that which is obvious , and easily discernable , especially when the persons are women , and men of ordinary capacities . and therefore this way of arguing shewed not childishness in the apostle but fatherly wisedome , and is a very good reason for my interpretation , not against it , sith it is acknowledged that the apostles arguing as by me framed is right , and serves his purpose . secondly , saith mr. bl. it is incongruous to bring phrases fully answering the churchstate and condition of either parents , believing and unbelieving ( which in the scripture is holy and unclean ) and yet to understand them of holiness and uncleanness of another kinde of l●gitimation and bastardy , if they may be ( as i think they never were ) so called is incongruous : that these words fully answer the churchstate of parents and the churchstate and condition which the children derive from them , is plain in that parallel text gal. . . jews by nature , that is holy by birth from believing parents , not sinners of the gentiles , not unclean by birth from unbeleeving ancestours ; so mr. cartwright on these words , in his answer to the rhemists . if you will know what this holiness of children new born is , the apostle telleth you , it is through the covenant to be a jew by nature , or birth : and if you will f●rther understand what this uncleanness of children is , the apostle in the same place telleth you , it is not to be sinners by nature as those which are born of the heathen . answ what i said before i say still , without any jeer or disregard to mr. cartwright , that the conceit that cor. . . and gal. . . are two full parallel scriptures , is but a dream , there being neither agreement in scope , matter , words or sense between them . not in scope . for cor. , , , . the apostles scope is ●o resolve a doubt about continuance of married persons in disparity of religion , gal. . . his scope is to determine by what we are justified , not in matter , for the one speaks of the sanctifying of husband and wife to each other , and the holiness or uncleanness of the children ; the other of jews and gentils acding to their different national state , nor is there one word used gal. . . which is used cor , . . nor can the sense be agreeing . for jew by nature cannot be as much as holy cor. . . because then the children of the corinthians should bee jews by nature , which was impossible , they being born of gentile parents , for such were the corinthians , cor. . . nor is mr. bls. sense jew by nature , that is holy by birth from believing parents , any where else found in scripture ; nor doth jew by nature intimate their churchstate , as if hee meant it thus ; we who are members of the visible church , or have this priviledge to bee in the covenont of grace by nature , in that wee are born of believing parents . for they are said to bee jews by nature by reason of their natural descent , without any respect to the faith or unbelief of their parents , even those whose parents were idolaters , as a●az , manasseh , or any other of that line were jews by nature , and not sinners of the gentiles , and the children of the most holy proselites , yet were not jews by nature : nor were they jews by nature through the covenant of grace , they were jews by nature without respect to the covenant of grace , for that was alwais to them who were believers , whether jewes or gentils , and the covenant whereby the jews had priviledge was not the covenant of evangelical grace , but the covenant of peculiar national blessinigs , but here the opposition to the gentiles , and the occasion shews jews to bee taken as a term appropriate to natural jews by natural descent from jacob in contradiinstction to gentiles from other roots . if any ask who are meant by [ we , ] and why here is mentioned [ jews by nature , ] and why they are opposed to the gentiles , and they termed sinners , i answer , the words seem plainly to be a part of pauls speech to peter , and that by we are meant himself with peter termed a jew , v. . and other believers of the circumcision , mentioned v. , . and the sense is , we though we are jews by nature , or even we who are jews by natural birth ; and this mentioned , because they had the law peculiarly given them , as piscator in his analysis , nos quantumvis judaei sumus , quibus nimirum lex peculiariter a deo data est . or as the opposite term [ sinners of the gentiles ] intimates , knowers and keepers of the law of moses , and therefore if any , certainly much more then sinners of the gentiles ▪ we should seek and expect to be justified by the law ; yet if we know that a man is not justified by the works of the law , but by the faith of christ , and even we have believed on christ jesus , that we might be justified by the faith of christ , and not by the works of the law , it is not equal that wee should as peter did at antioch , dissemble our liberty in christ , compel the gentiles to judaize or keep the law for righteousness , and so not walke uprightly or rightfoote it according to the truth of the gospel . now the gentiles are termed sinners in the sense , in which , in the ordinary acception among the jewes , it was taken for men that observed not the law , opposed to the righteous , matth. . . luke . , , , . & . , . and many more places : and in this sense it is taken , v. . we our selves also are sound sinners , that is , we our selves also are deprehended , convinced , or proved to be prophane breakers , or despise●s of the law : which the gentiles did , and which i think is meant ephes. . , , . and that paul doth not any more reckon himself with them ephes. . . then he doth with them that are alive at christs comming , opposite to them who are dead in christ , thes. . . though he use the first person plural in both ; for i see not how that could stand with his speeches of himself , acts , . philip. . ▪ , . and therefore do conceive a conception or an enallage of person , ephes. . . used often in speeches , whereby a speaker takes that to himself which is proper to others , whether to avoid distaste as if he upbraided them , or to insinuate into their affections , or for such like reason . out of all which i infer , . that [ jews by nature ] is not put gal. . . to intimate a birth-priviledge of the children of believers , whether jews or gentiles , concerning their ecclesiastical state even in infancy as visible churchmembers ; but it is put to note either the advantage peculiar to the jewish nation in that the law of moses was given to them , or rather the greater likelihood and meetness or congruity to seek or claim righteousness by the law then the gentiles . . that he meant not they were jews by nature through the covenant of grace . for that were clean opposite to his intention , which was to shew that their estate of being jews by nature did not confer to their justification , which doubtless it would have done if it had been by the covenant of grace , but to intimate , that the law was given to them , or rather they studious of it , and zelots for it , and therefore if any , they should be justified by it ▪ as paul in a like place , phil. . , , , , , , . so that whatever advantage or precedency is intimated by it , it is ascribed to the law , and their observing of it , not to the new covenant of grace . . the deteriority or worse condition of the gentiles is ascribed to them , not barely in respect of their birth from unbelievers , and so agreeing to their infants , much less as agreeing to infants of unbelieving jews as well as gentiles , but in respect of their manners either onely or chiefly , and so not competent to infants . and therefore notwithstanding mr. bl. thought gal. . . a fit text for his sermon , in which he asserted infants birth-priviledge of believing gentiles , though mr. calamy and mr. vines crack in their epistle before mr. bls. answer to my letter , that he hath truly stated the the question , set it upon the right basis , and well fortified it , and mr. bl. hath produced somewhat from mr. cantwright to colour his parallelling cor. . . with gal. . . yet i say still , and have such a gift of impudence as to aver , that both mr. cartwright was mistaken , and mr. calamy and mr. vines did vainly crack of mr. bls. birth priviledge , and mr bl. hath grosly abused gal. . . as he did also gal . . and there is no parallelism of cor. . . and gal. . . to interpret the one by the other . . saith mr. bl. the argument thus understood is untrue : the stress is wholly laid upon the believing party , as to the holiness of the issue , twice over ; the unbeliever is meerly passive in it , when the child hath legitimation equally from both . against his interpretation , and for mine ( which chamier affirms to be calvini & omnium nostrorum ) take these arguments . . that holiness which necessarily follows to the issue , from the sanctification of an unbelieving by a believing yokefellow , is covenant holiness , and not legitimation : but the holiness in this place of the apostle necessarily follows to the issue from the sanctification of an unbeliever by a believer ; ergo , it is covenant holiness , not legitimation . . that which is derived from the eminency of one parent above another , and not equally from both , is not legitimation : but this holiness is derived from the eminence of one parent ( viz. the believing parent ) above the other ; ergo , it is not legitimation . . the result or fruit which follows from a believers faith is not legitimation : but the holiness in the text is a result of the faith of the believing yokefellow . the minor is evident , seeing faith is twice hinted at in the believer . i know that mr. t. denies that the unbelieving husband or wife is sanctified in the believing : it is ( saith he ) in the husband , not in the believing husband ; in the wife , not in the believing wife , that is not in the text. the marriage is between a believer and an unbeliever , the unbeliever is sanctified , whether husband or wife by their yokefellow , but not by their believing yoke fellow ; the reader that puts off his reason may matter such denials . answ. the reader that puts on his reason , will easily see good reason for my denial of each of the minors in each of mr. bls. three arguments , and the vanity of mr. bls. arguings , laying the stress wholly upon the believing party , which is not expressed in the text , but onely hinte● ; and upon a translation of the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by , which is not denied but may be translated in or to . will any man of competent reason conceive , that the apostle being to give reason of his resolution of an important point of cons●ienc● , about which he was by letter consulted , would so loosely argue as to leave out the chief word from whence he inferred his conclusion , and conclude holiness as resulting from that which is not named , yea though he named the opposite term twice ; and express a causality or antecedency by a term that had ordinarily another respect , when there was a proper and usual particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to express it by ? and on the other side so precisely name the terms of husband and wife twice , and your children expresly , and yet lay no part of the stress upon the conjugal relation so often and so plainly mentioned ? yea , do we think that the apostle giving a reason why the husband and wife might live together in disparity of religion , would lay the whole stress upon that which was meerly accidental to their marriage state , to wit , the ones being a believer , and the f●deral holiness of children , without which their mrrriage might be good at first , and they lawfully continue together , and not ascribe it to that conjugal relation , continuing which alone made their living together lawfull as their comming together at first ? that chamier did overlash in saying the interpretation of federal holiness was omnium nostrorum , is manifest by the words of musculus , melancthon , and camerarius , c●ted by me in my exercitation sect . . that it was calvins and many mo●e protestants opinion , is a prejudice against our opinion , but should not be with those that determine upon evidence of reason , not the authority of men . calvin was an excellent man , but we may say of him , non videt omnia . i follow mr. bl. in his next section . whereas mr. bl saith , i put the apostles argument into this form , if the unbelieving husband were not sanctified by the wife , then were your children unclean ; but they are not unclean , but holy ; ergo , the unbelieving huusband is sanctified by the wife : had he dealt fairly with me , he would have rectified the major , and changed [ by ] into [ to , ] the conclusion of the syllogism , and the words next before and all along in that section of my examen having [ to the wife ] which i contend for in that section , and pag. , . of my exercitation , as the genuine reading , disclaiming [ by the wife , ] and of this advertise mr. m. p. . of the first part of this review . the rest of the section is spent about the proposition proving this sequel , [ if the unbelieving husband be not sanctified in or to the wife , your children were unclean , ] and so included in the apostles consequence . mr. bl. would have it to be thus , answer to my letter , p. . [ all the children of an unbeliever are unclean , unless for generation he or she be sanctified by a believer . ] i conceive this proposition to be included in the apostles consequence , [ all the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified to the other , are unclean ; ] or [ none of the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified to the other are holy . ] the point in difference between us , is , whether it be necessary to insert [ of an unbeliever , unless for generation he or she be sanctified by a believer . ] this i deny for these reasons . . that is not necessary to be inserted , without which the apostles conclusion is inferred : but the apostles conclusion is inferred without mr. bls. addition ; ergo. the major is of it self evident . the minor is thus proved . the apostle in his argument doth not at all mention sanctification for generation , there may be and was sanctification without generation , else no husband and wife could be sanctified one in or to another except children were begotten , and so the apostle should not resolve the lawfulness of their l●ving together who were barren ▪ which is absurd . nor is it necessary to add [ by a believer , ] sith the apostle hath omitted it , and that as it is very probable of set purpose . nor is it necessary to add [ unbeliever ] because it is false then even according to paedobaptists hypotheses . for then it would fo●low , the children of two believers are unclean , and so isaac and jacob should be unclean , or out of the covenant ; if this were added all the children of those parents , whereof one is not an unbeliever sanctified for generation by a believer , are unclean . . the second reason i form thus . that is not necessary to be added , which would make the apostles proposition false : but mr. bls. addition would make the apostles proposition false . for it is false , which he makes the apostles proposition , all the children of an unbeliever are unclean , unless for generation he or she be sanctified by a believer . for whether by uncleanness we understand non-admissibleness into the church , it is false ; for the children of unbelievers bought with money by abraham , though infants , yet were in mr. bls. sense federally holy : and me thinks mr. bl. who asserts against mr. firmin the baptizability of the infants of the generality of en●lish though the parents be openly profane , and hate godliness , should not deny it : however , the case is clear in the circumcision of professed infidels children bought with money , gen. . . and for federal real holiness , i suppose mr. bl. will not deny , but that many of them , as rahab , &c. were in the covenant of saving grace . to the first of these , mr. bl. . saith thus , pag. . i pray leave generation out , and see whether there can be any sense in it , unless it be understood ; their sanctification will confer no legitimation , without generation ; if i say not believer , i must say husband or wi●e that is a believer . asw. if generation be left out , and believer , it may be good sense according to my interpretation . an unbelieving husband may be sanctified to his wife , that is , may lawfully use her though she were an unbeliever as his wife , and may continue to live with her , and she with him , though they never had or should have children , else your children which you might beget should be unclean ; but this being put , they are legitimate . but according to mr. bls. interpretation it is not good sense in the case of the barren ; for she or he are not instrumentally sanctified for generation , there being no generation there is no being an instrument for generation , nor sanctification thereto . and an instrument is an efficient , and where there is no effect there is no efficient , nor instrument : and to be sanctified instrumentally must be as an instrument to a principal agent , which in this thing cannot be any other then god ; now no instrument of god fails to produce its effect , therefore without actual generation , no wife can bee said to bee instrumentally sanctified for generation . and for the leaving out the term [ believer ] it is good sense as i expound it without it , and if the apostle had not conceived it good sense without it , hee would not , as hee did , have left it out . but i confess it is not good sense according to mr. bls. interpretation , who saith ( though falsely ) p. . the stress is wholly laid upon the believing party , as to the holiness of the issue twice over . i confess their sanctification would confer no legitimation actual without actual generation ; yet their might bee legitimation of issue ( which is enough to shew the consequence to bee good and for the apostles purpose ) without actual generation , the legitimati●n being onely upon supposition ( as it is usual in such arguments ) and so the generati●n onely supposed . doubtless the apostle resolved the corinthians of the lawful living together of the barren as well as they that had or should beget , which wil● not agree with mr. bls. exposition of instrumental sanctification for that is not true but of actual generation past or future , as i have proved . but mr. bl. adds , the apostles major is of an unbelieving huusband and a believing wife , and i make the propo●●tion universal , according to the capacity of the subject of all believing wives joyned to unbelieving husbands , not with mr. t. of all husbands and wives . and this is the apostles included proposition , which must bee the basis of so many inferences and refutations , when yet all mens logick ( except what mr. t. hath learnt ) will utterly disclaim it . answ. that the apostles major is not of an unbelieving husband and a believing wife , is manifest by the words in which the term [ believing ] is in both speeches left out . and sure if the apostle would have ascribed any thing to the believer as such , hee could as easily have put it in as the term unbeliever , or the terms brother or sister , used v. , . and though i deny not that the wife , or huusband opposite to the infidel yoke-fellow were believers , yet i have l●arned so much logick and divinity , that what attributes do agree materially do not alwayes agree formally in each speech , as though ishmael was the son of abraham , yet what is said of him gal. , , , , , ● . is said of him n●t as abrahams sonne , but as hagars . and so it is here , though the husband or wife were a believer , yet they are not there consid●red as believers , nor the things there spoken of them ascribed to them under that consideration , but under the consideration of husband and wife : and if any disclaim this logick , he will disclaim such logick as the holy scripture useth in these and other places . i alledged in my examen part . . sect . . p. . the words of chamier : tom . . paustr. cath . l. . c. . § . . against augustines interpretation of cor. . . o● a ceremonial holiness , as apposite to refute his own of federal . for saith hee , that interpretation is ridiculous if these propositions bee not true , that all born of those ●arents whereof one is not sanctified in the other , are begotten in the time of the womans monethly courses , infidel husbands never use their wives but at such time , for so the apostle is made to speak by augustines interpretation . now the self same i shewed to follow on his own interpretation , the words being changed which should bee changed in such a retorsion . for then according to it the apostle should say , all the children born of those parents of whom one is not san●tified in the other , are out of the covenant of grace , infidel parents never beget of their wives children within the covenant of grace . both which are false , and consequently the interpretation of chamier , whence it is apparent that chamier made these pr●positions in the apostles arguing to be included , those children whereof one parent is not sanc●ified in the other are unclean , none of the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified in the other are holy . i said also in my antidote pag. . that mr. bl. confessed these propositions included in the apostles consequence . against this mr. bl. thus riseth up . what can i i●agine but that mr. t. knowingly fastens this gross untruth upon mee ? seeing he so we i knowes that i both deny it and have argued against it ( having made such defence ●s he could in his apology of it ) y●t now in his antidote says i confess it . i am overmuch honoured to be named ( if i may say so ) the day that chamier is mentioned , but as much wronged to have such a monster of absurdities ( as is contained in that proposition ) obtruded upon mee ; my thoughts are over-high of chamier to believe any such weakness in him , when mr. t. shewes it in him ( having yet given his reader no account where it may bee found ) i shall subscribe to that proverb ; nullum magnum ingenium sine aliqua mixtura dementiae . answ. chamiers words in the place cited , making the apostles arguing with augustines exposition to include the two propositions before named , do plainly shew , that in his logick the apostle asserted these propositions , all the children whereof one parent is not sanctified in the other are unclean , none of them are holy ; and mr. bl. in his answer to my letter ch . . sect . . pag. . to my fourth argument against instrumental sanctification thus made , in this form of reasoning this proposition is included ; their children could not bee holy without that sanctification , which could not bee true of instrumental sanctification and federal holiness , replies never den●ing the proposition to bee included , but avers i● true of instrumental sanctification and federal holiness , yea most true , necessarily and universally true : now hee that saith without that sanctification ( of one parent in the other ) the children could not be holy , saith none of the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified to the other are holy , to which is equipollent all the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified in the other are unclean . and thus it is shewed mr. bl. where hee and chamier confessed those propositions to bee included , which indeed have no monster of absurdities in them , but are the genuine medium of the apostles argument , and chamier without any mixture of madness , did acutely discern to be included in the apostles reasoning , though hee heeded not how this very observation overthrowes his own interpretation as well as augustines . the rest of this section not answered about the reason i gave why the proposition included in the apostles sequel is to be conceived without the terms of believer and unbeliever inserted by mr. bl. and the illustration of it i shall make no further reply to here , but refer the reader to what is so largely spoken in vindication of my self in the first part of this review sect . . pag. . sect . . pag. , . i proceed to examine mr. bls. fifth sect. of the th . chapter , although there are some things in the sixth section which perhaps might bee more fitly answered first . mr. bl. sect. . having said that i alledge , that the apostles in this text brings a formal argument to prove the marriage society of these yoke-fellowes lawful , which in the two former verses hee had determined , hee then adds . and it cannot be denied but the words at the first sight , seem to carry some colour to understand them so far in mr. t. his sense , as to make them formal , concluding reasons of his former determination having said v. , . then hee adds v. . but the way of inference will as well bear it , that the apostle doth first determine in the controversie by revelation ( as mr. t. will have it ) as an apostle , then takes off their scruples which o●casioned their fears , both respective to their posterity and themselves ; mr. t. indeed challenges this way of interpretation to make the apostle immethodical , but what better method then to determine a point , and then answer reasons against it ; the apostle meeting with their fears in respect of their posterity and themselves , it must needs bee that they signified them and hee answers them ; the apostles method ( it is true ) and manner of inference indifferently favours either interpretation ; but the words themselvs clearly evince , that they are a removal of scruples against their marriage society , and not a formal concluding argument against it . answ. it is true it is a bottome i build much on , . that the apostle brings the media or middle terms of two syllogisms or formal arguments v. . to prove the lawfulness of the continuance in marriage society of the believing yoke-fellow with the unbeliever , determined by him v. , . and that they are not as v. . a rhetorical argument onely to move the affe●●ions to embrace what before their judgements were setled in , but a logical proof of the resolution by setting down the medium out of which a syllogism is to be framed to infer the conclusion . . that the apostle doth not at all resol●e any doubt about their posterity , but takes the state of their posterity as out of doubt with them , and thence infers that which was doubtful to them concerning their own marriage state . now mr. bl denies not the words at first sight seem to carry some calour to understand them so far in my sense as to make them formal , concluding reasons of the apostles former determination , and confesseth the apo●●les method and manner of inference indifferently favours either interpretation . b●t that the words are to bee analysed and conceived onely in ●he form i have resolved them , i prove , first by the particles , for , else , but now : all these particles are argumentative . [ for ] in many places , as rom. . . & . , &c. corinth . . , , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated else , or otherwise , or for then are argumentative , as cor. . . & . , . rom. . . in which places it notes an absurdity consequent , if the antecedent bee not granted : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but now , is used also frequently as an argumentative particle , as corinth . . , . rom. . . heb. . . & . . there are both these used , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so corinth . . . and accordingly pasor in his lexicon on the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dici●ur etiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . interdum servit assumptioni syllogismi , cor ▪ ● . v. & . v. . mr. cobbet just. vindic . p●rt . . chap. . sect . . where the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in argumentation , as cor. . . and the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in like sort used , cor. . , . so rom. . ● . heb . , & . . & . . do declare that that sentence ( in the la●ter part of cor. . . ) is annexed in way of argumentation to the proposition immediately before . beza annot . ad cor. . . particula 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hoc in loco non est temporis adverbium , sed est conjunctio quae adhiberi solet in argumentorum assumptionibus . . this is proved from the ma●teer , i● is agreed on that the apostle determines the doubt of he corinthians v. , . and it is apparent that the first part of v. . is a reason of his determination . let us consider the det●rmination v. , . let him not put her away , let her not leave him . now this determination may be understood either as a plain prohibition forbi●ding the believer to put away or leave the unbeli●ving yoke-fellow at all , being contented to dwell with the believer . but this sense seems not to me to be the apostles intent ; . because it might then be a hard yoke , that a believer must not put away his wife which will dwell with him though she play the harlot ; or it may be understood as a determination of their liberty , let him not put her away , let her not leave him , that is , there is no necessity that he should put her away , that she should leave him , conscience and duty to god ties them not to do so , and this sense seems most probable to me , though i reject not the other , if some limitation more be added , as thus , let him not put her away , nor shee leave him , that is , i forbid them to leave each other barely for the disparity of religion . now the reasons of this later explication are these . . because the phrase v. . let him depart is not an absolute command but a permission , as the words following , a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases , shew , and the like is to bee said of the resolution v. . so let him walk , that is , so hee may walk , and that it is the sense , i gather from the instances in the following verses , whereby the apostle illustrates his determination v. . is any man called being uncircumcised ? v . let him not become uncircumcised : is any called in uncircumcision ? let him not be circumcised . which speeches do not absolu●ely forbid the drawing up the fore-skin or the cutting it off , there might bee cases in which either might be lawful , but leave it at liberty , and so much the words ●ollowing also intimate circumcision is nothing , and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping the commandements of god , which expression intimates the i●differency of these , and the non availing to ingratiate us to god , which is not a fit reason for an absolute prohibition , but for a determination concerning the liberty of either . then the apostle v. . repeats his determination v. . let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called ; which ( though true of it ) is not meant of his ●hristian general calling , as if he had said , let every man abide in christianity wherein he was called , which the words seem at first r●ading to import ; for the words following , v. . art thou called being a servant ? do shew , that the term [ calling ] v. . notes th● state of life antecedent to his being a christian , which by an elegant ●ntanaclasis is termed by the apostle his calling : and this the apostle doth not enjoyn so as that he forbids any servant to be free ; but the meaning i● , as diodati in his annot. rightly expounds it , he may abide therein with a safe conscience , and ought not rashly to change it , neither through superstition , nor by doing another any wrong : but if he can do it for any just causes , or through any lawfull means , it is then lawfull for him to do it . the same is repeated v. . and is to be understood , not ( as oft preachers do understand it ) of a mans trade , or imployment onely , and as an absolute command , that a man should not leave his i●ployment , trade , or function in which he was bred , as of a tradesman to become a preacher ▪ &c. but the calling is any state of life in which the person was found , who was called to be a christian , as to be circu●cised or uncircu●cised , a servant or freeman , married or unmarried , subject or magistrate , and so proves that magistracy or any other state of life is consistent with christianity . and the apostles determination is not of necessi●y , as if a christian might not alter the calling or state of life he was in when he was converted , for then the servant might not become free , nor the unmarried marry ; but of liberty , that christians should not think themsel●es bound by their christian profession , to forsake these estates , but they might continue in them . and so is the resolution v. , . to be expounded . . this exposition is agree●ble to the occasion of the apostles determination , which was the corinthian christians doubt of the lawfulness of their living together , not of the inconvenience or convenience ( for in that they could have best resolved themselves ) and so the apostles resolution is of the lawfulness of living together . . this is further confirmed from the reason of his determination , v. , . in the first part of v. . which is apparently set down to meet with the reason of their doubt : they thought that they might not live with the unbeliever , because unholy . the apostle on the contrary determines though hee were unholy in himself , yet he was to his wife as if hee had been holy : and the reason is thus , the wife may live with him as her husband , who though an unbeliever , is in respe●t of marriage use as if he were sanctified : but so is the unbelieving husband ; ergo. which reason cannot be a meer rhetorical argument to move the affection , for it supposeth the unbeliever continuing such which was their vexation ; but an argument to satisfie their consciences : yet not of their duty that they must live together , for it is heterogeneous to that end , they were not bound to live together by reason of the sanctifiedness of the unbeliever , bu● gods command , which alone makes duty ; but of the lawfulness notwithstanding his infidelity , by determining against the ground of their doubt , the unlawfulness of living together with an unsanctified infidel . as for the words following , [ else were your children unclean , but now are they holy , ] they cannot be the resolution of another doubt : but . the forms of expression [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , else or otherwise , and but now , ] do plainly shew , that those words do confirm what was said next before , [ the unbelieving wife is sanctified to the husband . ] . they shew that the thing was certain even to them , that their children were not unclean , and that it was absurd in their conceits that their children should be unclean . mr. bl. himself saith , vindic. faed . pag. . else implies a certainty , that upon this account of sanctification of the parent , from whom the ground of fear arose , the children are holy ; a like certainty , that were it not that they were thus sanctified they were unclean . which words do plainly set down the two propositions i conceived in the apostles argument , which mr. bl. terms a monster of absurdity ; for [ it is certain that upon this account of sanctification of the parent from whom the ground of fear arose , the children are holy , ] is equipollent to this , [ all the children of those parents whereof one is sanctified to the other , are holy ; ] and [ it is certain , that were it not that they were thus sanctified , they were unclean , ] is equipollent to this , [ none of the children of those parents whereof one is not sanctified to the other , are clean or holy : ] and hereby their fear is confessed to have been about their own living together , and the ground of it the imagined non sanctifiedness of the parent , and that [ else ] doth imply a certainty of the childrens holiness upon this account of sanctification of the parent ; which evidently shews , that the childrens holiness is a consequent of the parents sanctification , and brought to prove it , and not to resolve another doubt of them . yea , it were ridiculous to resolve a doubt by a doubt , to resolve them their children were holy , because they were holy . rightly saith piscator in hi● scholie on the place . the argument is from the effect , to wit a consequent absurdity , and it is after this form , if the unbelieving husband were not sanctified in the wife , their children would be unclean : but they are not unclean , for they are holy ; therefore the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife . whence it is apparent , that the words are not a resolu●●●n of a doubt of their children , for then the childrens holines● would have been the conclusion , whereas it is the assumption , and consequently that the apostle useth formal arguments , or gives the middle-terms of them , and that he doth not resolve two doubts , but one of the lawfulness of the living together of yokefellows in disparity of relig●on , and th●t the first argument is taken from that which obviate● the ground of their fear , and the later confirms that argument from a consequent absurdity even in their apprehension , if that were not granted . t●is to be the t●u● analysis o● the apostles words , the words of chamier , beza , zegedin in his tables , and many more do shew , which i forbear to alledge as conceiving it needless . what saith mr. bl. to this ? let us look first into v. . where the [ for ] may lay as fair a claim to a formal reason as this in the ● th . and m. ● . himself says is a reason , antip●d pag. . but i would fain learn how he can make it up into a reason ; he must thus draw it up . whom a man in marria●e society may have hopes to save from idolatrous ways , with such a one he may continue in marriage society : but a believing husband in marri●ge society may have hopes to save his unbelieving wife from idolatrous ways ▪ ergo ▪ this proposition as to such a conclusion is . vain ; for though there were no such hopes , yet marriage society is to be continued , gentilism being not of the substance of marriage , which mr. t seems to yeeld , examen , pag . . this proposition is false as to this purpose ; the incestuous corinthian might ●ave had hopes to have converted his fathers wife ( if a heathen ) and yet such hopes would not conclude the lawfulness of their society together . herod might have had like hopes to have converted his brother philips wife , and yet this was not objected against john baptist , and had it b●en obje●●ed , it had be●n frivolous . we have many ●ases put about marriage , if such an argument would serve the turn , it would salv● them all . answ. though i say cor. . . is a reason to perswade to the resolution v. . yet i do not say it is a reason to conclude the lawfulness of living together , but to perswade them the rather to live together from the possibility or hopefulness of that event , which he urgeth in a rhetorical way in an interrogation , not in a logick way as he did v. . and yet it may be drawn up logically thus . they are the rather to live together , it being otherwise determined lawfull , whereof one , if they live together , may save the o●her : but so it may be if the brother or sister live with the infidel yokefellow , ergo. so that by my maintaining that v. . [ for ] notes the medium of a formal argument , and that thereby the lawfulness of the believing and infidel yokefellows continuing together in marriage society is concluded , and that [ for , v. . ] notes a reason of the resolution , v . yet it follows not the conclusion inferred v. . is the same with that inferred v. . nor the reason to be drawn as mr. bl. would , nor is there any need i should retract my analysis of v. , , . nor answer mr. bls. objections against 〈◊〉 argument which i neither ascribe to the apostle , nor is deducible out of any of my grants . mr. bl. adds . and for v. . though i cannot say , but in case i● were made up ( into mr. ts. his sense ) into a reason of the former conclusion , it would contain a truth , and so far might pass in the way of a reason : yet i have many material exceptions against it ; . from the thing it self , it would be a reason silly , childish , vain , your married condition is lawfull , else your children were bastards ▪ what child in corinth but well understood it ? . from the phrase in which it is delivered altogether unsuitable to a reason of this doctrine , . being onely to tell them , that the legitimation of their issue proved the lawfulness of their marriage society , he should attribute all ( as to either sex ) to the believer , when the child owe● his legitimation equally to either parent : : that being to give 〈◊〉 reason of the lawfulness of marriage in such a special case , he should give his reason of equal concernment to all marriages ▪ where both are unbelievers , both believers , as well as this between a believer and an unbeliever : . when he is to speak onely of legitimation and bastardy , he should phrase it in such uncouth language , and in words fit it onely suteable to their parents ecclesiastical capacity , whether title to it , as in the believer , or want of it , as in the unbeliever . now on the other hand interpret the apostles words ( as his method will equally beare ) accordingly as you have heard before , and no such inconvenience follows from the words either v. . or . answ. mr. bls. confession that my analysis and exposition would contain a truth , and that it might pass in the way of a reason , and therefore is opposite to the apostles purpose , and his exceptions though termed by him material , yet as i shall shew , having no weight , and his method and exposition neither agree with the words nor matter , is a very good evidence for me against him . as for his exceptions , they are the same which he brought before , sect . . and are answered by me in this section , that it was the fitter for the apostle to us● if the reason were so easily understood that the apostle doth not attribute all to the believer , that no reason was so fit to settle them about their special case , as that which evinced , that the marriage state was not made void by the unbelief of the parties , that the apostles phrases are not uncouth language after my sense , but very agr●eable to such language he useth in the same chapter ; as when v. by an antana●lasis he terms the civil state of the christians the calling wherein they are called , and to other expressions , as i shew in the first part of this review , sect . , , , , and that the phrases are not suitable to the parents ecclesiastical capacity ; and the apostles speeches and argument do imply falshood , and are inconsistent with the terms and matter of them , if expounded and r●solved as mr. bl. would . mr. bl. adds . and now mr. t. may easily receive answer to that odious inference , which he makes from our interpretation of covenant holiness . according to this interpretation ( saith he ) the medium of the apostle to prove the lawfulness of the living of a believing wife with an unbelieving husband , will as well prove the lawfulness of a believing fornicatrix living with an unbelieving fornicator , as may appear ( saith he ) by a syllogistical analysis of the apostles argument the major whereof is this , that man and woman may live together , notwithstanding the unbelief of one party , whereof one i● sanct●fied to the ●ther for begetting an holy seed . this is manife●●ly the apostles reason after our interpretation . but mr. t. is manifestly mistaken , not to mention the liberty that ●e will scarce allow another , to leave out husband and wife exprest in the text , and instead of it to put man and woman : the apostle doth not conclud● the lawfulness of their marriage society by the federation of their issue , but shews that t●e supposed and feared non-federation doth not conclude the unlawfulness : and i dare yeeld that any man an● woman may live together , notwithstanding any fear of the unholiness of their issue ; where one is sanctified by the faith of another to the begetting of an holy seed . and if mr. t. will apply this , which the apostle speaks , of a mans living with his wife ( ad faciendum populum ) to the living wi●h his whore , there is no danger to yeeld it ; pharez his issue had belonged to the commonweal of israel , if thamar had been an infidel , as for ought wee know , in all probability it was with jephtaes mother . if sampson had issue by the harlot of gaza judg. . . such issue had belonged to israel , such ●ssue male had right to circumcision . to gratifie mr. t. i shall put it under my hand , that if a man have no other reason from scripture to leave his harlot then the non-federation of his issue , he may still abide with her . answ. there is no mistake in my argument , nor is there any answer at all made by mr. bl. to it , which hee either wittingly or unwittingly i judge not , certain i am he doth manifestly mistake . he tels me , the apostle doth not conclude the lawfulness of their marriage society by the federation of their issue , whereby he intimates as if i said he did , and that therein was my mistake : but let my words be viewed apol. sect . . p. . postscript . sect . . p. . review part . . sect . , . and it will appear that i frame not the argument so according to the apostle ●ightly onderstood , but as mr. m. and others interpret him . i said the apostle concludes the lawfulness of their living together by the sanctification of the husband though an unbeliever to or in the wife , and that the proposition of the apostle is , they may live together whereof one is sanctified in the other , the assumption is , but the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife , ergo. now the major with mr. ms. and mr. bls. exposition hath this sense , they may live together whereof one is sanctified by the faith of the other for the begetting a holy seed , for so they expound the apostle . but according to them the vnbelieving fornicator is sanctified by the believing fornicatrix for the begetting a holy seed , which is confessed by them . by mr. bl. here , when he saith , the issue of tamar , jephtha's mother , the harlot at gaza were holy federally : and for the major there is no necessity of putting in [ husband and wife ] sith as mr. bl. saith p , . the stress is wholly laid upon the believing party , as to the holiness of the issue , and here , i dare yeeld , saith he , that any man and woman may live together , notwithstanding any fear of the unholiness of their issue ; where one is sanctified by the faith of another to the begetting of an holy seed . now put all these together . the apostle argues the believer may live with the unbeliever , because the one is sanctified in the other , and this sanctifying is according to mr. ms. and mr. bls. exposition for the begetting a holy seed , and this begetting of a holy seed according to mr. bl. is ascribed wholly to the faith of the one parent , it 's a result or fruit of the parents faith whether married or unmarried , therefore according to mr. bls. exposition of the apostle , ●he lawfulness of living together is deduced from th●t which doth as well ag●ee to fornicators as the married , and consequently ●he lawfulness of living together in fornication is inferred from the apostles reason as mr. bl. and mr. m. and others expound it as well as of husband and wife . it is true i would not allow another to leave [ husband and wife ] exprest in the text out of the argument framed by me according to my exposition , which is the apostles meaning as i conceive , because i lay the whole stress upon those terms , and still contend that no persons are sanctified one in or to another but the husband and wife , and that these are so sanctified , whether one or both or neither are believers . but if i frame the reason according to mr. ms. mr. bls. and others interpretation of the apostle , i am to be allowed to leave them out , sith by them no stress is laid on the husband and wife or conjugal relation , but the faith of one party . that there was any such fear of non-federation of issue , or supposition of it in the corinthians if they livid together cannot be evinced from the text , but the contrary is manifest by the arguing from the uncleanness of their children , as an absurdity in their apprehensions , and the holiness of them as a thing known and certain to them , as the particle [ else ] shews : and therefore that the apostle shews that the feared and supposed non-federation doth not conclude the unlawfulness , is but a fiction , nor doth the apostle make any such distinction between concluding the lawfulness , and the not concluding the unlawfulness , between which if there bee any distinction ( which yet i perceive not ) yet it is certain that the words v. , . let him not put her away , let her not leave him , are a positive resolution of the lawfulness of their continuing together in marriage society , and the reason shews v. . that the doubt was of the believers conjunction with the unbeliever , because he was an unsanctified person , and consequently the reason of the doubt was not the fear of the non-federation of issue but the unlawfulness of marriage society with an infidel unsanctified : and consequently it is a monstrous addition which mr. bl. seems to put either into the conclusion thus , let her not leave him if this be all the fear the non-federation of issue , or in the reason , they may live together whereof one is sanctified by the faith of the other party , so as that there is no fear of the non federation of their issue , there being nothing in the text for this addition . yet if it were put in it will justifie my odious inference as hee terms it . for let the major be thus after mr. bls. minde , they may live together whereof one is sanctified by the faith of the other , so as there is no fear of non-federation of their issue , the minor is thus expresly after mr bls. minde ; but the unbelieving fornicatrix is sanctified by the faith of the believing fornicator , so as that there is no fear of non-federation of their issue , ergo they may live together according to mr. bl. and consequently mr. bl. blasphemously by his exposition makes the apostle justifie the living together of a believer with an unbeliever in fornication ; which is enough to shew the falshood of that exposition , yea and of any other which ascribes the sanctified●ess v. . ( which is the reason of their lawful living together , v. , . ) to the faith of the one party , and not to the conjugal relation . the rest of mr. bls. talk of my willingness to have him waste his time , his falling on my sapless tree , the readiness of his axe , his pains in applying it , is vain and frivolous talk , sith the tree still stands after all his hacking and hewing at it , and his axe appears to bee very blunt , or else he strikes besides the tree . as for my sixe years space , mr. bl. might have understood that the reason of my not publishing the first part of my review till . six years after the printing of apology , was ( besides my constant labours and extraordinary publike and private employments ) from the necessity of my removing my dwelling from the temple to bewdley , from bewley to ledbury , thence to lemster , besides my frequent flittings by reason of the wars , travels to regain my plundered goods , difficulty to get my treatise printed , the variety of antagonists i had to answer , which is yet the reason of my slowness in publishing this part of the review , and comes from the venemous spirit of such as mr. bl. mr. b. and other paedobaptists , who would never comply with me in the fair motion in the epilogue of my examen to joyn together in a brotherly way of ventilating the point , but what they can bait me with calumnies tending to discredit me as covetous , arrogant , &c. with multitude of replies , and magnifying them though frivolous , vilifying my writings that men might not reade them , and discern the truth , nor book-sellers be willing to print or sell them , stirring up parliaments and rulers to remove those of our way , out of all places which have publike salary , that our hands may be weakned ; which i may truly call wicked practises , of which too many of them have been guilty , and for which god will judge them . i go on . mr. bl. sect . . to my argument against his instrumental sanctification , that barren persons cannot be said to be instrumentally sanctified for producing an holy seed pressed by me in the . part of this review p. , . sect . : saith thus , and i will appeal to any , yea the meanest christian , whether persons that have children born in wedlock bonds , in such disparity may not have their fears and scruples about them , notwithstanding others in the same condition of marriage are childless , or unable to bring forth children ? whether the seed which came of those marriages ezra . . were not unclean , notwithstanding many so married had no children ; many of the priests had herein transgrest , and it was but some of them had wives by whom they had children , ezra . . all which i grant , but there is not a jot in all this which answers my objection ▪ that the barren by accident or nature could not bee said to bee sanctified to produce an holy seed , and yet the reason of the apostle must bee conceived to reach to the proof of the lawfulness of their living together in disparity of religion as well as the fruitful , and therefore the sanctifying must be expounded in another sense then mr. bls. which agrees not to their case . but hee adds . and because this is the medium for proof of the apostles determination , v. ● . that they might live together , pag. . hee will have it to be from a future contingent ; but when this is no medium for proof of the apostles determination , as hath been sufficiently sh●wn it is not , this fals with the other . answ. that it hath been sufficiently shewn that the first part of v. . is not a medium for proof of the apostles determination , is said without any colour of truth . all the reason i finde given is , v. . is not a formal reason , ergo , neither v. . to which answer hath been given by denying both the antecedent and the consequence , it is a formal reason though not ●s mr. bl. frames it , and if it were not , yet the term [ for , else , but now ] being argumentative terms , shew there is formal reasoning v. . v. . and the producing an holy seed being a contingent event , if the apostle should , as mr. bls. exposition makes him , prove their lawful living together , because the unbeliever is sanctified instrumentally to produce an holy seed , hee should argue from an uncertain event , which chamier tom . . paustr. cath. lib. . chap. . sect . . disapproved in another case , as i shew in my examen pag. ● . to my argument against instrumental sancti●●cation , that it cannot be meant o● it , sith the barren cannot bee said to bee gods instrument , ●or that always effects , and when god sanctifies hee specially designes some , whereas this is common to all husbands and wives , and the unbeliever is said to bee sanctified , whereas it is the believer according to them who is the instrument of producing a holy seed . mr. bl. saith , i am sure they bring ●orth children unto god , ezek . . . and this they do not independently of themselves , so christ would not have warned matth. . . call no man father upon earth , for one is your father who is in heaven . all natural parents are instruments of god to produce a seed to people the world , according to that blessing of gen. . . gen. . . bee fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth ; all believing parents are instruments of god for an holy seed , it being of his free grace that the promise is to them and their seed . answ. what is said ezek. . . was said onely of israelites and those manifest idolaters as well as true believers , and the words do import no more but this , that the israelites children were born of right to him , that is , to be at his disposal for his service , levit. . . because hee brought them out of egypt , and therefore it was unjust in them to alienate them from him by offering them to idols , which is not to be said of the corinthian believers children . matth. . . is as impertinently alledged , for it speaks not of gods being a father in respect of natural generation , nor forbids calling any man a father in that respect , but in that manner in which the jews termed their teachers fathers and themselv●s their children , in respect of absolute subjection of their consciences to their dictates , as diodati rightly in his annot . this teacheth the believers not to yeeld that absolute reverence , nor power over their consciences to any living man which belongeth to god onely , as ignorant people did use to do to the pharisees . if a●l natural parents be instruments of god to people the world , yet mr. bl. will not say they are instruments to produce a holy seed to peo●le the church for the● all children and not believers onely should b●e fede●ally holy : so t●at all this is meerly impertinent . that all believing parents are instruments of god for an holy seed , is said without proof , there being no such promise to them and their seed produced , nor if there were did it follow they were all federally holy in mr. ●ls . sense : but were this g●anted , yet it is no●hing to prove the unbelieving parent to bee gods instrument to produce a holy seed , who is said , and not the believer to bee sanctified , and that signanter considered as an unbeliever , much less every unbelieving wife though b●rren who hath a believing husband , much less to bee specially designed for that end , and therefore the sanctification instrumental which master bl. conceives meant corinth . . . is quite besides the apostles meaning . mr. bl. goes on thus of me , the d . argument he hath in his apol. p. . where he says that the apostles proposition understood of federal holiness were most certainly false , giving in his reason , for many children of both unbelieving parents are federally holy ; he saith that i answer , they are not so at their birth . my answer is , if afterwards by grace they are changed ; this is no fruit of their birth ( of which the question is in this place ) but the work of the gospel through grace , mr. t. says , this is nothing to the purpose , sith the proposition hath not those words in it , nor the apostle ; the apostles reason supposeth it cannot be at any time ; it seems then that the apostles proposition hath this in it , that their children so born cannot bee clean at any time , or else mr. t. his exception is less to purpose , who does not see that the apostle speaks of uncleanness or holiness , as as a product of their birth without consideration of any thing which after by providence ( through the omnipotence and free grace of god ) might happen , as a mean woman given in marriage to a senator or peer , she is enobled by her husband , otherwise her issue were plebeians ▪ yet so as they are capable of honour by the princes munificence , or their own merit ; it seems that proposition of christs , that which is born of the flesh is flesh , joh. . . will not hold , unless it must for ever continue flesh , and no omnipotence of god shall be able to make it otherwise . answ. it is true that it seems to me the apostles proposition hath this in it , that their children born unclean cannot be clean at any time , and i grant that the apostle speaks of uncle●nness or holiness as a product of their birth or generation , without consideration of any thing which after by providence ( through the omnipotence and free grace of god ) might happen and therefore of illegitimation and legitimation by birth , and not of federal holiness which is no product of birth , and yet that proposition , that which is born of the flesh is flesh ▪ joh ▪ . . will hold , though after the person born after the flesh be made spirit or spiritual , there being no contradiction in this , that the person born after the flesh should become spiritual in his qualities , but it is impossible that that which hath been illegitimate in birth , should not be illegitimate in birth , i● be●ng a thing past , and therefore cannot by god be made not a thing past , or not done , for then it should be true that a thing hath been at birth , and hath not been , been and not been , which is a contradiction . mr. bl saith , i farther add , and yet it may be certain that the child of two unbelievers may be federally holy at birth , whether it bee understood of election , inherent holiness or outward holiness , if god please to work and declare it , i would mr t would speak , whether there were ever any such a thing a● the child of two unbelievers , at the instant of their birth , declared of god to bee of those whom hee took ●o bee federally holy , and of the number of his covenant people , let that proposition stand till god by such a miracle confute or contradict it . answ. . though i could not speak there was such a thing , yet it is enough for me to shew that and how it might be . . i doubt not but many a captive woman gotten w●th child by an infidel , and she her self an infidel , hath been delivered in abrahams house , and those children were in mr. ●ls . sense federally holy at the instant of their birth , for for they were , if males , capable of circumcision on the eighth day , according to the law , gen. . , . and this is to be federally holy according to mr. bls. doctrine , who makes all to be in the covenant at their birth who are capable by reason of their birth of the sign of the covenant . he yet saith . mr. t. adds , but the issue of them that are not lawfully conjoyned as husband and wife cannot be made legitimate by god , because it is contrary to the definition of legitimation , which is a state consequent upon birth by the lawfull copulation of lawfull husband and wife . this must conclude for his interpretation and against ours , because god by his omnipotence can make our unclean ones holy , and to make his unclean ones holy , is without the verge of omnipotence : if we should put case in mr. t. his manner , that god should appear in approbation of a mans enjoying a woman out of marriage society , then there were a legitimation of the issue , as he did the marriage of the brothers wife , deut. . . otherwise against the moral law , levit. . . answ. it concludes for me if it be true ( which mr. bl. disproves not ) that the holiness is meant cor. . . which cannot be without the sanctification there spoken of , and mr. bls. holiness may be without his sanctification , and the proposition is true of no other holiness but that which i assign . if the definition of legitimation be a state of birth from parents generating in lawfull marriage , though god should approve of a mans enjoying a woman out of marriage society , there were no legitimation of the issue , and yet the marriage deut. . . were lawfull , and the issue legitimate . i am sorry mr. bl. hath tyred himself and me with so many impertinent words , which have shaken nothing of my fabrick : i am glad i am so near an end with him , and pass from him to mr. sydenham , who in the th . ch . of his exercit. thus speaks , the scope of the apostle here is to hold forth some special gospel priviledge annexed to the state : and he frames his argument by no ordinary medium , of the lawfulness of the marriage according to a natural , moral , or positive rule ; but a majori , from an eminent advantage they had together in the gospel . for . the unbelieving husband is sanctified in , or to , or by the wife . . the children in such a state are holy , as if they had been both believers . answ. the scope of the apostle , cor. . , , . can be no other then the resolving of the doubt in the corinthians , which mr. sydenham truly saith he answered , v. , . and then gives , v. . an argument to prove it . now therein is no speeial gospel priviledge held forth ; for . if any priviledge be there assigned it is to the unbeliever remaining an unbeliever , for he is said to be sanctified ▪ but sure an unbeliever ▪ remaining an unbeliever hath no special gospel priviledge ; ergo. . the unbeliever is put there , not to shew any meliority of condition to himself , but to take away the doubt which was concerning him , as defiling their society : so that the meaning is not , the unbeliever is a gainer by his wife , but the unbeliever brings no damage to her in respect of the thing in doubt concerning the lawfulness of continuing together in marriage use by his unbelief ; there is no advantage mentioned to either of them , but a determination that there is not that disadvantage from the one as necessitated to leave the other . nor is there any thing that carries the shew of an argument a majori : the apostle doth no● say , they have an eminent advantage together in the gospel , therefore much more may live together . yea , such an argument had been far from being strong , there being no arguments usually weaker then such , if any disparity may be shewed they are quickly enervated . and in this thing the proposition would have been false upon which such an argument must turn as its hinge , to wit , they that have an eminent advantage together in the gospel may much the rather live together . for . it would have been from that which is meerly extrinsecal and accidental to marriage society , gospel priviledges neither establishing nor dissolving marriage society , which is lawfull as well among them who have no gospel priviledge as those that have . . the proposition were false , for then if the unbelieving whore have gospel advantage ( as i conceive mr. s. will not deny any more then other paedobaptists do ) by the believing fornicator , they may live together ; so that if the fornicator being a believer beget a holy child on an unbelieving whore , or what ever other gospel priviledge it is the unbeliever hath by the believer , imagine to cast out devils in christs name , though she be not joyned to the church , to prophesie in christs name , or to do wonders , by this gospel priviledge they are allowed to live together in fornication : which are monstrous absurdities following mr. ss. conceit . but he tels us . that the apostle holds out a gospel priviledge , not common to meer unbelievers in their marriage state is clear ; . so●eza ●eza affirms , that in two special copies he finds the words thus read , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : neither can it hold sense with the former words , but as thus read : and if it had not been the apostles proper meaning to shew the special priviledge the believing party hath notwithstanding the unbeliever , he would have ●nely said , the husband is sanctified to the wife , and the wife to the husband ; that would have been the plainest and least ambiguous expression of such a sentence : and the apost●e would never have made an argument of four terms ▪ when three could onely satisfie ; for all know , that an argument with four terms is most deceitfull and false . answ. the reason hath no strength in it , the apostle puts the advantage on the believers side , ergo the apostle holds out a gospel priviledge not common to meer unbelievers in their marriage state . for there may be expr●ssed an advantage on the believers side , as suppose her liberty , her quiet of conscience , &c. and yet the thing from whence it is inferred no gospel priviledge , but a thing common to unbelievers , as in case , a b●liever doubt of the lawfull eating of an infidels meat offered to an idol , and i● be resolved as the apostle doth cor. . , , . from the right god hath to all creatures , here is the advantage on the believers side , the quiet of his conscience , and yet no gospel priviledge held forth but such as is common to unbelievers , the lawfull eating of what was sold in the shamble● . . mr. ss. antecedent , that the apostle puts the advantage on the believers side , and there fixeth it , is contrary to what he said before , that the argument is from an eminent advanta●e they had together in the gospel ; for if they had the eminent advantage together , it was no mor● put or fixed on the believers side then on the unbelievers . . it is so far from being true that the apostle puts the advantage on the believers side , that it is true rather on the contrary , if any advantage be exprest it is put on the unbelievers side , for the unbeliever is said to be sanctified not the believer . . it is not true that the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the husband as believing , and that which mr. sydenham alledgeth to prove it is of no force . for the reading in two copies is not sufficient to countervail the multitude of copies which have it otherwise , it being more likely that the addition of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was made by some scribe then by the apostle at first , who v. . used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without it . and for the sense it holds ●s good sense without it as it did v. . the unbeliever is mentioned not to shew a special priviledge to the believer , but because the occasion of the doubt was from his infidelity , and therefore that could not be omitted without omitting that in which was the force of the objection , which could not be distinctly satisfied without mentioning it ; and by putting it in there are not four terms , as unskilfully mr. s. intimates , but by omitting it there come to be four terms , the conclusion to be proved being this , the wife may live with her unbelieving husband , and the premises these , that wife may live with her husband who is sanctified to her , but so is the unbelieving husband to his wife , ergo. but of this the reader may see more at large the first part of this review , sect . . . saith mr. s. the apostle doth use higher terms and phrases in this argument , then is ever used in scripture to express a meer lawfull or common priviledge ; as to be sanctified in the wife , and the children to be holy ; expressions of another dialect then to hold forth a civil or natural , or legal conjunction : being singled out in scripture , to hold forth the best state of persons in relation to god and his use . answ. . were all this true , as it is not , yet mr. ss. conclusion is not proved thereby . for though the terms should never express a meer lawfull or common priviledge , a civil or natural , or legal conjunction , and that they are singled ●ut in scripture to hold forth the b●st sta●● of persons in relation to god and his use ; yet it follows not the apostle holds out by them a gospel priviledge , sith they may hold out a jewish priviledge , which is not a gospel , but r●ther a legal priviledge , as the term [ holy seed ] doth ezra . . . h●w fi●ly these terms sute to the exposition i give without holding forth a gospel priviledge , may be seen in my examen part . . sect . . in the first part of t●is review , sect . , , , , . mr. s. adds , . that the term unclean notes the same it doth acts . . where cornelius being a gentile without the pale of the jewish church , is called common and unclean , as all the gentiles were before they came under the promise , he was no bastard , he was without the church just in the same phrase with the apostle here ▪ when he saith that children are not unclean , he must needs mean they are not of common use or to be excluded from outward priviledges of the church . . that [ unclean ] is used for legal pollutions and uncleannesses , which made men to be separated from the congregation , and excommunic●ted from the priviledge of ordinances untill they were washed and sanctified : thus in levit . , , . ch . . . & . , . isa. ● . . hag . . with many other places , where unclean is opposed to a present suitable capacity for church priviledges . answ. in all those places , levit. . , , & . . & . , . hag. . . isa. . . the uncleanness is not opposed to a gosp●l priviledge , but a legal or jewish , nor were the unclean out of the covenant or the people of god even when they were unclean , and therefore if ● cor. . . he should tell them their children were not unclean in that sense , he should not tell them of a gospel priviledge , but a judaical legal mosaical priviledge , which had been both false for they were uncircumcised gentiles , and therefore were unclean in that sense , and vain to tell them of that as a priviledge , which was no priviledge , but which hee counts nothing of cor. . . . cornelius is not termed unclean as wanting a gospel priviledge , he was in covenant with god and accepted with him ▪ and in the visible church , sith acts● ● . . but he is termed unclean as one not mee● by reason of his uncircumcision for a jew to go into , or eat with acts . and therefore if the apostle should cor. . . mean it just in the same sense with acts . . he should tell them their children w●re not unclean , that is , were persons with whom they might ea● and converse which understood of infants were ridiculous ●f meant in the ●ense god tearmed cornelius clean , then it is as unfitly appl●ed to infants , who are not clean as cornelius , in that fearing god and working righteousness he wa● accepted with him , acts. . , . which is more th●n an ou●wa●d church priviledge and a 〈◊〉 thing then mr. s. and his ●ellow paedobaptist conceive the apostle meant cor. . . that which mr. s. brings of the use of the word holy that it ex●resseth the heb●ew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that it ever signif●es that which is appropriated to a divine use , and that it is the 〈◊〉 notion of holiness in the old and new testament , and never taken otherwise : and that for proof of it he hath compared a●ove ● . places in the old ●esta●ent ●ccording to the septuagint , and all the n. t. places where the word is gener●lly taken in scripture to express a separation of things to god how false or insufficient it is to his purpose , is so a●ply shewed in the first part of 〈◊〉 review sect . , ● , , , , , . that i conceiv●● 〈…〉 this time to add any more . in which place● it may be seen what i grant concerning the word generally taken , and 〈…〉 more places th●n tim. . . thes. . , , . for another use then mr. s. asserts ▪ to bee the proper notion of holy in the old and n. t. that it notes that which is appropriated to divine use , and is never taken otherwise , to shew it to bee taken otherwise , as sam. . . isai. . . ezra . , &c. but let 's view what hee saith to my allegation of tim. . . thes. . , , . for a different use from his sense . from tim. . . saith mr. t. is meant onely the lawful use of the creature in opposition to what is to be refused . it is a wonder , but that god leaves men to blindness when they leave truth , how any man of common understanding , finding the word holy and sanctified alwayes used in a religious sense , should flye to this place to make an exception answ. i have so far as i thought needful looked into my former writings , and do not finde any place where i say as mr. s. here saith i do , what i yeelded at the dispute at bewdley , and for what reason is shewed in the first part of this review sect . . p. . and if mr. s. took from mr. b. this which he here so unbrotherly chargeth me with , hee might have there found an answer , which should have been taken notice o● , if my answer printed . came to his knowledge afore the publishing his exercit. . but i never could finde in my antagonists mr. b. m. ●l &c. any such candor as to construe any thing that came from me , since this controversie arose between us , in the better part , but i think i may say almost in every thing i have done or said that th●y mention , they pervert my words and deeds , and aggravate them in the worser sense , when they might have had a good or at least excusable construction . as for this thing which mr. s. here makes an instance of gods leaving me to blindness when i left truth , the true state of it is thus . i had said in my examen part . . sect . . p. , ▪ that this may be the sense , i gather from the like use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used tim. . . where the creature of god is said to be sanctified , that is lawfully used in opposition to that which is to be refused ; so here the unbelieving husband is sanctified , that is lawfully enjoyed as a husband by , or to , or in respect of his wife , whether believer , or unbeliever , in this case there is no difference , and alledged some words of mr. m. in his sermon p. . to the same purpose . which when mr. m. in his defence p. . framed an argument from against me , i shewed him his mistake in the first part of this review sect . . p. . denying the sanctification cor. . . to bee such a sanctification as that place tim. . . means , but onely make them like thus far , that as tim. . . it signifies lawfully enjoyed , so here , though in a different manner , and from a different reason or cause . and for the concession in the dispute at bewdley ▪ my yeilding mr. bs. conclusion doth prove that mr. s. doth here falsely charge mee to say that tim. . . is meant onely the lawful use of the creature . nor is it true that i fled to this place to make an exception against the taking the word holy in a religious sense . for neither did i make use of tim. . . about the sense of the word holy , but the word sanctified , nor do i conceive the word sanctified used in any other then a religious sense , yea i have often said that [ sanctified ] cor. . . is taken for religiously sanctified , as cor. . . as baptised , cor. . . mother , mark . . dead , heb. . . made himself eunuch , matth. . . son , exod. . . and many more places , the words are taken in their proper notion , onely they are applied in a limited sense , or in some respect by an impropriety or abuse of speech to those to whom absolutely and in propriety or exactness of speech they do not belong , and therefore this which mr. s. here suggests of me is but his calumny which he was willing to take up that through my sides he might wound the truth . but mr. s. adds . the apostle saith first , every creature which god hath made is good in it self , and none to be refused : that is , all may be lawfully used without any legal pollution as formerly : but then he goes higher , speaking of a religious use of outward things , they are sanctified by the word and prayer ; they are all good and lawfull in their use to every man ; but they are onely sanctified by these holy means , the word and prayer . and he might have as well said , that the word and prayer are not holy means , but onely lawfull to be used ; as that the sanctification which is by the word and prayer , is to make the creatures onely lawfull to be used . if a wicked man ea● his meat without seeking a blessing on it , or giving thanks , will any one say that he hath not a lawfull use of the creature ? but any man may say , it 's not sanctified to him . the apostle in these ver . goes on gradatim by degrees , from a lawfull use to a holy use of the creatures ; all is good and may be used , but they are sanctified by the word and prayer . thus you see the nature of this priviledged place . answ. what word it is which is meant tim. : . whether the word of gods power creating them , which the words v. . which god hath created for receiving seem to lead to , or the word of gods declaration , whether by our lord christ , mark . . or to peter , acts . . or promise of blessing , it is manifest that the apostle in that place doth not make any distinction between a sanctified and a lawfull use , nor doth he say they are created for any to be received but with thanksgiving of them who believe and know the truth ; nor doth he make the creature good or not to be refused but being received with thanksgiving , nor sanctified but by the word of god and prayer : nor do i find but that interpreters take lawfull use and sanctified for the same . so beza in his annot. it is made holy , to wit , in respect of us , so as that we may use it with a good conscience ▪ as duly received from the hand of god. for other men do enjoy it no otherwise then as thieves and sacriledgious persons goods usurped . and he lawfully useth goods , who acknowledgeth and invocat●th the giver of them after his word . piscat . anal . he minds which is the lawfull and allowed use of meats , to wit , when we receive them with thanksgiving and prayer proceeding from faith ▪ diodati , dicson , and others speak to like purpose . nor is there any thing here that intimates any gradation from a lawfull use v. , . to a sanctified use v. . for v. , . to the receiving of them thanksgiving is required of them that believe and know the truth , and the creature is not said to be good and nothing to be refused but being taken with thanksgiving , which is the same with sanctified by the word and prayer , v. . and v. . is a reason of that which is said v. . and therefore no gradation or rising higher , as mr. s. imagines ▪ which i do not produce to shew that i conceive no distinction between a lawful use and a holy use of things ( which i do acknowledge in the first part of this review p. . and elsewhere ) but onely to shew how insufficiently mr. s. opposeth me , whom he so severely censures , even in that which i spake rightly enough , and his own blindness made him to judge hardly of me , as left by god to blindness . mr. s. saith further , but the main place mr. t. alledgeth for holiness to be used for what is barely civil or lawful , is that thes. . , , . here uncleanness is taken , saith he , for fornication , and holiness for chastity . to which i answer with mr. m. that chastity among the heathens is never called sanct●fication , but among believers it is , being a part of the new crea●i●n , and one branch and part of their sanctification wrought by the spirit of god. and though mr. t. sai●h this is but a shift , yet he shall see it demonstrative , if he observe the phrases in the text , and the nature of sanctification : in the and . v. the apostle beseecheth and exhorteth them to walk as they had received from him how to walk and to please god according to the rules of jesus christ ; and he urgeth it in v. with this ; it 's the will of god , even your sanctification , that is , that you should walk in all holiness , sutable to the blessed rules of the gospel , and as one part and expression of holiness , to abstain from sin : and he instanceth specially in fornication , which was the common and reigning sin among the gentiles : so that if you view the place you shall find , that . he speaks of sanctification in general , in it's full latitude v. . as sutable to all the will and mind of god ; this is the will of god , even your sanctification ; that is , it is gods command , and gods delight to see you sanctified : then he brings in abstinence from fornication ( the sin of the times ) as one part of that holiness god requires : for sanctification may be considered as it lies in vivification , or in mortification , which for distinctions sake we we may call the two parts of sanctification . now chastity in it self , as in the heathens and natural men , is not properly a part of sanctification ; some other epi●hite becomes it better : would mr. t. call all the abstinencies and actings of the heathens by the name of sanctifications , and speak like a christian and a divine ? would it be proper to say in his pulpit ( when he was speaking of the nature of holiness and chastity ) sanctified socrates , holy aristides ? and can he think the apostle would express that which is common among heathens , in such a high gospel dialect as sanctification is appropriated always in scripture to god , angels , saints , and their highest graces and workings , and to things raised above common use , dedicated to god and his service , but that he meant it according as the whole tenure of scripture defines holiness ? how much will the phrase of holiness and sanctification be debased and made common , if that sense should be admitted , contrary to the scripture use of the word ? but that is a weak cause that puts men to such extraordinary shifts to maintain . answ. it 's the property of some persons , like thersites in homer , to speak much and to performe little , and so it befals mr. s. here . he saith , . i alledge thes. . , , . as the main place for holiness to be used for what is barely civil or lawfull , whereas i alledge it not as mr. s. saith , but to shew that it is not true which mr. m. said , that holiness is always taken in a sacred sense , for a separation of persons and things from common to sacred uses . . though i say , mr. ms. answer to be but a shift , yet i shall see it demonstrative , if i observe the phrases in the text , and the nature of sanctification . but if all should be yeelded , that thes. . , ▪ . holiness were but a part of the new creation , that chastity in heathens is never called sanctification ; yet this were but a shift to avoid the proof against mr. ms. assertion , that holiness is always taken in a sacred sense for a separation of persons and things from common to sacred uses ; for the chastity of regenerate persons , confessed to be term●d holiness and a part of sanctification , is not taken in a sacred sense for separation from common to sacred uses : but of this more may be seen in the first part of this review , sect . . pag. . and as for mr. ss. reasoning , it is far from demonstrative , it being indeed against himself . for if v. , . be an exhortation to please god in general , and v . express one part and expression of holiness to abstain from sin , and no other sin be named but fornication , he doth particularly term abstaining from fornication holiness ; which is more fu●ly confirmed v. . where chastity is termed possessing our vessel in holiness and honour , opposite to possessing our vessel ( that is our body ) in the lust of concupiscence as the gentiles , among whom fornication was frequent , and this is v. . termed uncleanness , and the opposite to it holiness , that is chastity . and for the other thing , that chastity in it self as in the heathens and natural men is not properly a part of sanctification , and that sanctity is ascribed to the highest things , it is but frivolous . for though it be no part of true sanctification , yet it may be termed holiness , as there be many called gods who are not the true and everliving god , to whom though the term [ god ] do properly belong onely , yet magistrates and angels are sometimes termed gods without any debasement , and though i would not in my pulpit without distinction term magistrates , angels gods , or call an unlawfull assembly of idolaters a church , yet who knows not the term elohim , and ecclesia or church to be applied to them ? so that however mr. s. prattle of his demonstration and of the weakness of my cause and extraordinary shifts , yet this is but frivolous talk without any performance . he adds . but to go on a little further ; the same word is used by the apostle in all his salutations and inscriptions of his epistles to all the churches ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the saints or holy ones at rome , at corinth , galatia , ephesus , &c. which when appropriated to persons , always signifies a visible saint : so here when he calls children of believing parents holy , he cannot but mean , they are to be accounted as visible saints , until they do profess the contrary : and i know no reason can be given , why the meaning of the apostle in his epistles , when he writes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the saints , should not be as well understood written onely to the legitimate , and those that are not bastards a● rome , corinth , &c. as well as for them to interpret the same word so in this place : for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when applied to grown men , must signifie visible and evangelical holiness , and must be translated saints ▪ but when applied to children , it must onely signifie legitimacy , that they are not bastards ; when all men know , that magis & minus non variant speciem ; and the word is of the same import in every place of the new testament . answ. it is not true , that the same term is used by the apostle in all his salutations and inscriptions of his epistles to all the churches , it is not used in the epistles to the galatians and thessalonians ; and in the titles where it is appropriated to persons , signifies a saint called , sanctified in christ jesus , faithfull , which rather note an invisible then a visible saint : and if they do note a visible saint , they note one by calling , sanctified in christ , believer in profession , none of which are to be ascribed to infants of believers as such , nor can be meant cor. . . where children are termed holy by birth , not by calling ; and are not said to be holy in christ , but in respect of their parents . whence apparent reason is given , why the term [ holy ] in the titles of the epistles cannot be translated legitimate in opposition to bastardy , but saints , or men who are set apart for god by the love of god , and therefore termed beloved of god , rom. . . and the sanctification of the spirit by the gospel : and on the other side , why [ holy ] cor. . . cannot be translated saints , or visible saints , not for that frivolous conceit of mr. s. as if they might not be termed saints cor. . . for want of age ; whose gross application of a logick rule , shews he was but a smatterer therein : for if visible saintship had been given to elder persons in respect of grown age , and denied to infants , yet there had been no variation of kind from more or less growth , saintship being not the species or kind of such persons , but humanity . and what he saith , that the word is of the same import in every place of the new testament , it is so false a speech , and so ill beco●ming him that said , p. . he had compared all the places in the new testament where the word is used , that no other excuse but of heedlesness or forgetfulness can acquit him from deceit . for besides the places alledged , luke . . pet. . . &c. and his own distinctions of federal and inherent holiness , together with the holiness intentional meant rom. . . shew it to be false . what he adds , by the same reason we account grown men holy , we may account infants of believers ; for these that make a profession , may have no inward and inherent holiness ; and a bare profession is not holiness ; we onely account them holy by a judicious charity ; and we are often deceived , and have cause to repent of our judgements : ●nfants may be inwardly sanctified , and god hath taken them into covenant with their parents , and would have us look on them as separated to himself , which is ground enough to build our charity on , as to esteem them holy , as grown persons . there is no difference but this in it ; that concerning the holiness of persons at age , we trust our own judgements ; and in judging of infants we trust gods word , who hath comprehended them under the promise with their parents ; there hath been as many deceits in the event in our judgement of those of riper years , as in that which is acted through a mixture of faith on infants . and gods promise , though never so indefinite , is a surer ground for hope then my probable judgement ; which is the most i can have of the generality of professors of ripe years , is much of it false , as that god hath taken infants into covenant with their parents , thay are comprehended under the promise with their parents , god would have us to look on them as separated to himself , by the same reason we account grown men holy we may account infants of believers , we onely account them holy by a judicious charity , and all impertinent , forasmuch as professors of faith are accounted visible saints not by a judgement of charity , but of certainty from their profession which is visible , and so are qualified for baptism , not from hopes of real holiness , or faith of covenant holiness , which do not entitle to baptism without certainty of profession . what he adds . that holy is a pure religious word , that in my sense it would be no considerable medium for argumentation , that else were , &c. hath force from the specialness of the priviledge to their issue to be in a peculiar state of seperation to god , visible churchmembers with the believing parent , contains nothing but unproved dictates often before refuted . what he adds of cold comfort in my sense , and of strength and sweetness in his , is alike frovolous . for the speech of the apostle was to be no otherwise consolatory , then so far as it might satisfie their consciences of the lawfulness of their continuing together , which is clearly done by my analysis and exposition of the apostle , and not done at all by his way . for what is a priviledge of the children which perhaps they shall never have ; or if they have , it is nothing to take away the defilement by the infidel for satisfaction of their consciences concerning living together in disparity of religion ? i have done with this scribler : i shall a little examine what some others have said ; with as much brevity as the maintenance of the truth will permit , and hasten to an end . sect . lxxvii . mr. william carters attempt of proving the christian sabbath from heb. . , , . is shewed to be succesless , and so useless for proof of infant baptism . there is a treatise intituled , the covenant of god with abraham opened by mr. william carter , which pretends to clear the duty of infant baptism , and in his epistle to the reader saith , the root of this matter is the covenant of god with abraham ; which because of the eminency of the author , and the publishing it in observance ( as is said ) of the commands of the lord mayor , aldermen , and sheriffs of the city of london , rather then for any shew of strength in the discourse , i shall examine , that if this review come to their hands , they also may discern their mistakes . which i think necessary to be done , because he also ( as other paedobaptists use to do ) is not afraid upon his own conjectures ( for they are no better ) to charge us who baptize not infants as breaking abrahams covenant , as small friends to christs kingdome , waving and neglecting the right way of increasing that kingdome , and of exalting his throne and power in the world , taking-up ways unnatural , unsafe and false . let●s then see what he writes . afore he meddles with the point of infant baptism ( which he saith is the thing he especially intended in his discourse ) he endeavours to deduce the christian sabbath , as it is termed , from heb. . i omit that he saith , p. . that heb. . , . the birthright vendible is their priviledges in the church , and worship of the gospel , and that p. . he expound● the holding ●ast ●he confidence or liberty and the rejoycing of the hope , heb. . . by holding fast the ordinances and priviledges of the gospel : which if he mean ( as he seems to do ) of the o●twar● priviledges and worship , it appears that he mistakes , sith the birthright not to be sold , and the confidence and rejoycing of hope are greater matters , which no hypocrite may attain to , and are plainly intimated heb. . , . to be the seeing of god , the attaining his grace , and the estate evangelical mentioned v. , , . which they might sell , though they never had it , by their apostacy from their profession of christ , through whom they were in expectation of it , at least in appearance . and in like manner the boldness , liberty , confidence , or r●joycing of their hope , must needs be of something yet attainable , and not to be attained without holding it to the end , v. , . and which no unbelievers could attain to ; which are not true of bare outward chu●ch priviledges and gospel worship , but of that salvation mentioned heb. ●● . the grace brought in the revelation of jesus christ. pet. . . whereby we are gods house , heb ▪ . . are partakers of christ , v. . but i shall insist somewhat on that he saith p. . that by to day if ye will hear his voice , in that psal. . . is meant the christian sabbath day , by whi●h he means the day which in the new testament is termed the lords day or first day in the week , which i conceive not right for these reasons . . the day , heb. . . i● a limited or definite day , and that must needs imply this meaning ; [ this is the day in which if ye hear his voyce and harden not your hearts , ye may enter into ●ods rest ; if ye do not this day , ye will come short . ] which if true , then ( as mr. c. expounds it ) though they should hear the voice of christ , and not harden their hearts on the week day , yet they should not enter into the rest promised , which i think will be counted absurd , and evacuate the hopes by all the week day lectures . . from h●b . . . i thus argue . to day , heb . . is the same with the space of time which i● called ●o day , v. . this is so evident in the text , that every one that re●ds the ●ext will easily perceive it , sith it is plain , that the calling it to day is meant ●f the calling it i● that place v. ● . and the words ▪ lest any of you be hardened ▪ shew it . but [ to day , heb. . ▪ ] is meant of any day ▪ o● every day wherein christians might exhort one another , therefore not restrained to the lords day : but either extended to t●e whole space of time they live on earth , or to any opportunity in any day whatsoever , whether week day or lords d●y , wherein they might exhort . b● comparing these plac●s with 〈◊〉 cor where it is said , [ now is the accepted time , now 〈◊〉 the d●y of salvation , ] which seem plainly to intimate the same day with that which is meant heb. . , . and that day being manifestly meant of the time wherein the embassadours for christ do beseech men to bee reconciled to god , cor. . . it is very probable or rather certain , that to day , heb. . , . & . . is not meant particularly the lords day or first day of the week , but any day of a mans life wherein the gospel of christ is preached , and reconciliation to god offered him ; and received by him . or as cameron . quaest . in epist. ad heb. . . that time which by the prophets and apostle is called the last dayes and fulness of time , which is the time of the messiah exhibited , not precisely the lords day or first day of the week . let us view mr. carters reasons for his conceit . first , it is evident that it is meant of a day of rest c●ap . , , . for if joshuah had given them rest , namely that rest of which david speaketh , then hee would not aftewards have spoken of another day , therefore of a day of rest i● must bee meant , else the apostles argument had not been concluding nor pertinent , because many other days might have afterwards been spoken off , although joshuah had given them all the rest that was ever to bee expected . answ. it is true that he authour of that epistle doth rightly gather from the word [ to day ] that there was another day of rest yet remaining for the people of god besides the seventh day rest , a●d the rest in the land o● canaan which they p●ssessed by joshuah ▪ s conduct , yet doth not imply that the day in which the word was spoken was the day of rest . but thus hee gathers it , these words were spoken by david many hundreds of years both after god sware in the wilderne●s they should not enter into his rest who believed not , and after joshuah had setled the posterity of the unbelievers in the land of canaan , and therefore the rest in the land of canaan is not that which is meant in davids speech , but there is implied a future day of rest to bee attained by believing in jesus the messiah . for david if it had been meant of the rest in canaan would not have spoken to them not to harden their hearts f●r fear of being excluded from gods rest . secondly , saith mr c. it is meant of such a rest as god can and sometimes doth swear in his wrath against his own people , who are his house , and the people of his pasture , that they shall not enter into it : this cannot bee said of what they enjoy in their personal in●erest by faith onely ; but as for the co●fort of his ordinances and sabbath . answ. to omit the unfitness of the expression , sith the comfort of gods ordinances and sabbath is a personal interest enjoyed by faith onely , it is not true , that what is said of the rest cannot bee meant of what the people of god enjoy in their personal interest by faith onely , because of gods oath . for that oath doth not imply that believers shall not enter into the rest , yea the apostles inference is to the contrary v , . sith some were not to enter in , others were to enter in , and sith god sware some should not , hee promised some should , and chap. . . sith some entred not through unbelief , others in whom the word is mixed with faith , ch . . . do enter in . and this is a good argument that the rest mentioned is not the christian sabbath day which is the first day of the week , sith they that believe not come short of it ; it 's a consequent upon the holding the boldness , confidence and rejoycing of our hope firm to the end ; it was then in promise to the hebrews , and remained to the people of god , who were to bee warned that they came not short of it ; where as the sabbath dayes rest was then in p●ssession , not to bee expected afterwards , but then in use when this epistle was written , and yet such as hypocrites , unbelievers , and apostats did in some sort enjoy as well as sincere persevering believers . thirdly , saith mr. c. that it is meant of a sabbath dayes rest , appeareth by the manner of the apostles arguing in this place , in as much as the apostle proveth it to be another day of rest , besides what was in use in the church before . another in opposition to the th . day sabbath , and that because david speaketh of it as a rest to bee entered into a long time after ; although the th . days rest was entered into from the beginning of the world , in as much as hee spake as it is heb. . , . implying a promise that some shall , though others shall not enter into it . now , sayes the apostle , this being spoken by the prophet david of a time then to come : and again , as heb. . , . over and beside the seventh dayes sabbath . now from this his manner of arguing it is evident , that he supposeth this day of which david speaketh , saying , to day if ye will hear his voice , to be a day of the same kinde as the seventh dayes sabbath was ; because else there had been no such opposition to bee made , nor would there have been place for an although , or a notwithstanding , in the case , as in v. . because any other rest might have also been entred into from the beginning of the world , as a believers personal rest by faith was ; but that which maketh the opposition is , that david speaketh of a sabbath dayes rest , to be entred into now a long time after , even in the times of the new testament , of which times that psal. . is a prophesie , as appeareth by the apostles application of it in this place , and thereupon hee concludes it to bee another day of rest remaining for us besides the seventh dayes rest . by this wee see that by to day if yee will hear his voice is not meant onely of a christians personal rest by faith , which is every days enjoyment , and was entred into from the beginning of the world , but of another sabbath dayes rest besides what was in use before . answ. it is not denied that psal . is a prophesie , nor that it speaks of a rest to be a long time after davids time , even in the times of the new testament , nor that [ although ] doth imply a distinct rest from the seventh day sabbath rest , and an opposition of that kinde which some logicians call disparato , though others will not have it called opposition but distinction ; yet the words heb. . are not as mr. c. cites them , [ although the seventh days rest was entred into from the beginning of the world ] but [ although the works were 〈◊〉 or finished from the foundation of the world . ] nevertheless , this doth not prove that either the rest is not a believers personal rest by faith , or that it is of the same kinde with a meer weekly sabbath dayes rest , but rather the contrary . it is distinguished from the seventh day sabbaths rest , and so it is also from the rest which the israelites had by joshuah's conduct in the land of canaan , which the authour mentions v. . as well as the seventh dayes rest v. . and therefore the seventh dayes rest opposed to the rest v. , . doth no more prove the day of rest to be a day of the same kinde , as the seventh day sabbath was then the day of rest in canaan by joshuahs leading . yea , sith the seventh days rest mentioned heb. . . is onely gods rest , it is apparent the day of rest is of different kinde from an ordinary sabbath dayes rest . neither doth the term [ although ] impart any such identity of kinde , but that god spake of another rest of his , athough hee had rested long ago when his works were finished from the foundation of the world . yea the words heb . . hee that is entred into his rest hath also ceased from his works as god did from his , ( which expresseth the rest for the people of god yet remaining v. . ) do shew that the day of rest is not till a mans works bee ceased , which i know not how to understand of any other works then his works of labour and sufferings , which are not till the end of this life ; and therefore the sabbatism or day of rest is not here the keeping of a weekly sabbath , but a day of rest , as is meant revel . . . which though it bee not every dayes enjoyment , yet it may bee a christians personal test by faith onely , that is that rest which by faith onely is entred into or obtained . and though it were entred into by all believers from the foundation of the world , yet it was not so conspicuously as when christ entred into the heavens ; however those hebrews and the believers to come after had not then entred into it . that the sabbath days rest was in use before , proves against mr. c. that the rest was not of the same kinde , unless in manner of a type or shadow , as one thing like that 's resembled by another may in a catachrestique manner be termed of the same kinde with that which resembles . mr. c. adds . fourthly it is meant of a day of rest to bee celebrated in gods house in his worship . so the apostle concludeth v. . there remaineth therefore a sabbatism 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the celebration of a sabbath for the people of god : a word comprehending the sabbath and worship put together as was before observed . and the coherence of the words psal. . implieth as much psal. . , , . it appeareth also from the apostles wherefore , chap. . . his house are we ; wherefore , as the holy ghost saith , to day if yee will hear his voyce , &c. so as if the question bee what voice ? or what day ? the answer from the psalm and from the apostles inference must bee this , the day of worshipping the lord our maker , and of resting with him in his house , and his voice , whose house we are , inviting us to it . answ. sabbatism in the notation of the word imports no more then rest : what it imports in the use of it i cannot discern but from this place , sith i know not where it is used in the new testament but here , nor in any other authour afore this . here it appears not to import any more then rest , sith it expresseth but what is expressed by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , v. , , . though i conceive that the matter shews it to bee meant of a holy rest , it being th● rest of gods people . but that the word comprehends rest and worship put together , i do not conceive . for the word a●ludes to the sabbath gen. . , . quo●ed heb. . , . now gods ●est imported not worship , though his appoint●ng us to rest on the sabbath , and to sanctifie it , doth import our worship of him . nor do i think the coherence of the words psal. . , , . doth imply that s●bbatism h●b . . . comprehends the s●bbath and worship put together , or tha● psal. . . to day if yee will hear his voyce , is meant of a day of rest to bee celebrated in the house of god in his wo●shi● , sith in those words there is not the word sabbatism , and the exhortation , to day if yee will hear his voyce , doth not app●ar to have been on the weekly sabbath da● , the ps●lm being not ( as the th . psalm ) intituled ▪ a psalm for the sabbath , and it is more likely that [ to day if you will hear his voyce ] intimates the day at the end of every seven years in the solemnity of the year of release in the feast of tabernacles , when all israel was come to appear before the lord in the place which he should chuse , and the law was to bee read before all israel in their hearing , deut. . , . at which time of the year every year they had gathered in their corn and wine , deut. . . and then they had no harvest , and so it was the fittest time to resem●le the rest remaining ●o gods people ; yet so far was it from being the weekly sabbath day , that as ainsworth notes on deut. . . the jewish doctors say that if the day of the assembling of the people happened to bee the sabbath day , the reading of the law was put off till after . yet were it the sabbath day , it doth not follow , that it is meant of a day of rest to be celebrated in the house of god in his worship , for the weekly sabbath was not celebrated in the house of god , that is , the tabernacle or temple ; but in their dwellings , exod. . . and therefore if the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherefore , heb. . . ] did refer to whose house ye are , v. . ( though i conceive the inference is made from the words , if wee hold fast the confidence and re●oycing of the hope firm unto the end ) yet it proves it not to bee a weekly sabbath of rest to bee celebrated in the house of god in his worship . for the weekly sabbath was not celebrated in gods house , and if it were , each christian or the church were not fit to answer gods house in which it was celebrated , sith they are not the place where , that made the worship of god accepted as the tab●rnacle or temple that is proper to christ and his body , john . . heb. . but the persons by whom it is celebrated and who worship god. lastly , were all this granted , that heb. . . were meant a day of rest to bee celebrated in the house of god in his worship , yet this might be mean● of the rest in heaven often called gods house , where the elders cast down their crowns before god and worship and praise him , and not the weekly sabbath . fifthly , saith mr. c. because the apostle understands it of a day to be kept upon the same ground , in relation unto christ his ceasing from his works and entring into his rest , as the th . day sabbath was in relation to god his ceasing from his works , after his making the first crea●ion , and entring into his . so i● followeth v. . which to be meant of christ , and his entrance into his rest ( which he makes to be his passing into heaven , v. ) inferred from his entring into his rest v. . he endeavours to prove by reasons . answ. . the coherence be●ween heb. . ▪ and v. . doth rather intimate that [ he that is entred into his rest , v. . ] is a term common to all the people of god mentioned v. . and the exhortation v. . doth also import , t●at the person that enters into his rest v. is meant every believer . nor is any one of mr. cs. reasons convincing of the contrary . for . let the translation be mended as mr. c. would have it , yet it may be true of every believer , that he also hath ceased from his wor●s ▪ as god did from his own works . . seeing then , v. . may point out to what is said , heb . ● , , . . if heb . cannot be meant of ceasing from sin , yet it may be from lab●rious works and sufferings as revel . . . and such rest may be 〈◊〉 with refreshing , and looking upon them as good . . that v. . should be taken for a proof of v . is not necessary ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being not always causal or rati●nal , yet if it were , it might be thus , the rest of the people of god in heaven sha●l be a sabbatism like gods ; for such of them as shall enter into their rest , shall cease , or have ceased from their sufferings and painfull works , as god did from his in the beginning . . what he saith , that christ were not lord of the sabbath , as he saith mark . . luke . . unless he had entred into his rest , or as p. . he could not be lord of the sabbath , unless he also had a rest which he entred into as god did into his , i● without proof , and is false ; sith christ speaks of his being lord of the sabbath at that time afore he entred into his rest ; and doth imply that which some would call blasphemy , that christ as god had not been lord of the sabbath unless he had entred into his rest as man. but were it granted , that christ by reason of his entring into his rest as man , was lord of the sabbath , doth that prove that heb. . . is meant of christs entring into his rest ? or is it not rather a baculo ad angulum ? but were it granted that heb. . . were meant of christs entring into heaven , yet the rest before mentioned is rather thereby confirmed to be meant of rest in heaven with christ , then rest on earth on a weekly sabbath , sith the argument is strong thus , christ is passed into his rest in the heavens , therefore there is a rest remaining for the people of god there ; but hath no strength thus , christ is entred into the heavens to rest , therefore there remains to the people of god a weekly day of rest on earth . lastly , this very reason quite overthrows mr. cs. building . for he would ground the week day sabbath upon christs entring into his rest , and this day he would have to be the first day of the week , and the reason for inferring a week day sabbath upon christs entring into his rest is taken from the rest of god after the first creation , whereby the th . day sabbath was sanctified : now if there be the like reason of keeping a week day sabbath because of christs rest , as there was of keeping the th . day sabbbath because of gods rest , then it will not be the first day of the week which must be the sabbath , for that was not the day of his entring into his rest , but another day , to wit , the fifth day of the week , as may be gathered from acts . . mr. c. himself , p. . though he say that it is very probable that the ascension day was on the first day of the week , yet confesseth it not to be clear ; and the reason of the probability from act. . by the computation of the forty days from his resurrection , and the mention of a sabbath days journey , from mount olivet to jerusalem , occasioned ( as is likely ) from their making that journey then upon that day , v. . is so slender , that i know not that ever any learned man did conceive so with him ; and the computation of forty days from his resurrection , being on the first day of the week ( though the day of the resurrection contrary to the common computation should be excluded ) will not fix the ascention day on the first day of the week , but two days at least short of it . and for the mention of a sabbath days journey , act. . . it is clear from the words that it was onely to shew the distance of the place from jerusalem , not to shew that day to have been the sabbath day . i list not to trouble my self about the reason of using that expression rather then another , it being not material . yet were it granted it had been on the sabbath day , it had not been the first day of the week , for that is not termed in scripture , certainly not in the acts of the apostles , the sabbath day . what mr. c. adds . but albeit his rest was not compleated till he passed into the heavens , yet he first entred into it at his resurrection ▪ which being upon the first day of the week , there needeth no more to fix the command of the sabbath on that day , doth overthrow his arguing from heb. . , , , . whence he would deduce the christian sabbath because of christs entring into his rest at his passing into the heavens . which hurts not others , as mr. cawdrey , sabb. rediv. part . sect . . who confesseth the words heb. . . not to be spoken of christ , though he allude to them . i have insisted on this point by the way , because mr. c. makes use of it for infant baptism , but to how little purpose the sequel will shew . mr. c. for proof of infant baptism , p. . layes down this position , that what the lord confirmed by oath to abraham , he confirmed it to us , even to all believers after christ to the worlds end ; which i grant if understood of spiritual evangelical promises which accompany salvation , but not if meant of those peculiar blessings and priviledges which were promised to abrahams natural seed . yet in his proof of that position i conceive sundry things not right which are vented by him , as p. . that the voice of christ meant heb. . . is an inviting us to celebrate his day of rest in his house in the worship of the gospel , which he means of a weekly sabbath , and a particular congregation , and outward worship , as sundry passages following shew ; and this he makes a part of the gospel , p. . and the believer that neglects it comes short of the promise of entring into gods rest , and is a departing from the living god , heb. ● . . in tanto , though not in toto . in which speeches as there is much mistake , and wrong interpretation of the text , which speaks not of such a week day rest , or the house of god in the second capacity as he terms it , or of entrance into his rest as his house in that capacity , so that speech is very dangerous , now this entrance into his rest as his house in this second capacity , is that which the apostle chiefly speaketh to here , when he saith , take heed brethren of an evil heart of unbelief , in departing from the living god. and that in case the people of his pasture , and sheep of his hand , even his own children , will not hear his voyce , but forsake his worship , refusing his offer in this gospel rest as they did in canaan rest , he will also swear against them as he did against these , that they shall not enter into his rest . which if true , then they that are not convinced of the weekly christian sabbath , as many godly and learned divines in forreign parts , and in these nations are not , those who do not on that day joyn in the publike and solemn worship , as prayer , preaching , breaking bread , and that too in a particular gathered congregation , as se●kers , and many other persons , whereof we cannot but judge many of them to be godly , these are chiefly meant by the apostle as those that have an evil heart of unbelief , depart from the living god , god will swear they shall not enter into his rest . nor will the limitation in tanto help to free his speech from those horrid consequences , which it is liable to , if it be true ▪ which he saith , that the apostle chiefly speaketh to that entrance in his rest as his house in the second capacity , heb. . . and to expound gods swearing that they should not en●er into his rest in that sense , if they did not hear his voyce inviting to keep the sabbath , makes the speech inept thus , if ye will not keep the sabbath , i swear ye shall not keep the sabbath . nor do i conceive what he saith , p. . is right , that christ gave his saints the keys of the kingdome of heaven . matth. . . and from that gift to peter the saints do claim their church power , each according to their place and station in the church ; for they have it as peters , that is , as stones in that building , or if you will , as confessours , which makes them to be stones in the house of god : for neither by the keys is meant all church power , nor are the keys given to the saints , much less to them as stones or confessours , though such things are supposed oft times , but not proved ▪ but i hasten to the view of what follows , being the chief thing mr. c. infers his infant baptism from . sect . lxxviii . mr. carters exposition of gen. . , , . as if god promised to make every believer a blessing , so as to cast ordinarily elect children on elect parents , is refuted . that which is mr. cs. basis for his fabrick of infant-baptism , is from the covenant of god with abraham , gen , . , , . which he saith contains four things . . that god would bless abraham , and with him all believers , with all spiritual blessings in christ , rom. . . gal. . , , , . and this agrees with gen. . . ] which i yeeld . secondly ( saith he ) more particularly in gods promise to abraham is contained something peculiar unto him , and which believers are to claim particularly from his promise made to abraham ; as namely , in the second place , that god would not onely bless abraham ; and in him all believers , but also would make them blessings , and that chiefly and in the first place to their families ; and not onely so , but also to nations . gen. . , , . so gen. . . this promise peter alledgeth and explaineth to the jews , act. . the word is all the families of the earth . the same word we have , ephes. . . the covenant ma●e with ab●aham therefore , as by this place we see , that we have it in that of gen. . . where it was first made and given , so also that it respecteth families and posterity ; else he had said all the b●lievers , or all the people of the earth , not all the families of the earth shall be blessed . and he could not have said to the jews , ye are the children of the covenant , had it not respected the children of the p●ople of god. nor is it to be restrained onely to the jews ; for the promise is concerning all the fami●ies of the earth , therefore it followeth in the next words , v. . unto you first . and this blessing as it is first laid down , gen. . and here repeated by the apostle , we see is a blessing both upon the people of god themselves , and upon their families . nor is this promise to be restrained onely unto this ▪ that of abraham and his seed should christ come , ( although that also be included , because what we receive from abraham we have it all in christ , ) for so all those of the line of christ were blessings to the world as well as he . and because here is something intended applicable to all believers , namely , that they also shall be blessings in their generations ; and because a blessing upon families is intended also , for so the words run , thou shalt be a blessing , and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed ; therefore i say it must not be so restrained . but the meaning is , that in his covenant with abraham he hath thus far limited himself , and discovered his mind and purpose , that his choice shall not be proportion●bly all over the world alike , but that it shall be by families and nations ; so as he will ordinarily cast elect children upon elect parents ; and the lot of the saints in neighbourhoods and places together , and not by eq●al numbers in each part of the world alike . had not his election been so limited to families and nations , neither abraham nor believers could have been said to be blessings in spiritual things , either to their families or to any other where they live , as now they are , because god so blesseth onely his elect , ephes . . , . answ. the sum of this i conceive to be , that god promising to abraham he should be a blessing , gen. , . that in him all the families of the earth , gen. . . all the nations of the earth , gen. . . shall be blessed , in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed , gen. . . did promise that every believer should be a blessing in his generation in spiritual things to his family and neighbourhood , and thereby god ha●h limited himself to cast ordinarily elect children on elect parents , and the lot of the saints in neighbourhoods and places together , and not by equal numbers in each part of the world alike . which exposition is many wayes faulty , and the conclusion inferred from it either false or uncertain , and yet if it were true and certain , would not yeeld a sufficient reason for infant baptism , as will be shewed in the sequel . the first thing i except against this exposition , that when it is said gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he takes it for granted , it is to bee understood actively , as if the meaning were that abraham should be a blessing to others , whereas ( as pareus in his com saith ) it may be an amplification of the things going before , thou shalt bee altogether and very blessed : in which sense we use often the abstract for the contract , as a man very honest is called honesty . yea the lxx render it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and thou shalt be blessed . piscat . schol . vel , esto in benediction● , hoc est benedictus . diodati annot . blessed every way : as if all blessings were gathered together in thee , or a pattern of a compleat blessing . . that he takes i● as i● what is said must bee applicable to all believers , that they shall be blessings in their generations . but this is not proved from the text , which onely speaks of abraham being a blessing , and though it is true heb. . . the promise of bless●ng to abraham is made a promise of which all believers are heyrs , v. . yet is it plain from many passages in that chapter v , , , , , . that it is meant that they are heirs of the promise of blessing to themselves in enjoying salvation as abraham did , not of imparting blessing to others . . that he takes it as if it must follow , that if abraham were a blessing to others , it must bee in that spiritual blessings according to election were in some proportion entailed to the post●rity and neighbourhood of all true believers . but pareus thus ; some expound it actively , thou shalt be a blessing , that is , thou shalt bless others : my blessing shall not bee shut up in thee alone ; but out of thee it shall flow also to others . blessing shall so stick in thee wheresoever thou comest , that by thy ministry others may also come to a blessing . nor do the exposition of some hebrews seem to bee refused , that abraham shall be a publike example of all sort of blessing in the world , so that all that wish well to themselves or o●hers , may wish for the happiness of abraham : or as the new annot in gen. . . shalt be a blessing ] that is , more then thou shalt have a blessing , for in this blessing is virtually comprised the happiness of both worlds , and of all that are truely blessed in all ages ; whereof though god be the onely author , abraham is honoured to bee a principal means under him to bring it to pass in being the progenitour of the promised seed , and setting such an example of beliefe as might qualifie him to be stiled father of the faithfull , rom. . , . the world shall receive by thy seed , which is christ , the blessing which it lost in adam . mr. c. himselfe denies not to bee included in this promise , that of abraham and his seed the lord christ should come , but saith , if it bee restrained onely to this then it will follow that all those of the line of christ were blessings to the world as well as hee . to which i reply , . if the sense given be included as he grants , then his sense is not necessary , nor can any thing be proved by it . . though the speech in the sense given bee restrained , yet the absurdity followes not , sith the being a blessing by begetting christ is not so invested in any as in abraham , who is made the first trustee as it were , of this blessing by the covenant , or charter granted to him . . i except that in the promise , in thee , or in thy seed shall all the families or nations of the earth bee blessed . mr. carter conceives thee and thy seed to comprehend every believer : whereas the apostle expounds acts . . [ in thy seed ] of christ onely , and [ in thee ] galath . . , . of abraham onely , with whom as the pattern o● believing and beeing blessed , they which bee of the faith are blessed . i deny not that by abrahams seed believers are meant gen. . . and gen. . . and that the apostle rom. . . gal. . . and elsewhere so expounds it ; but no where do i finde the promises gen. ● . & . . & . . expounded so as that in thy seed should no●e every believer , and the sense in which mr. carter takes it , as if in every believer all the families of the earth should bee blessed , it is derogatory from abrahams peculiar priviledge one way understood , another from christs , and not much short of blasphemy . . that hee makes families and nations of the earth to bee different in the promises mentioned , as appears by his words [ and that chiefly and in the first place to their families ; and not onely so , but also to nations ] whereas the holy ghost makes no such difference . for as the same promise which is expressed by families , gen. . . is expressed by nations , gen. . . so in the new testament the promise gen. . . where the word is rendred families , is expressed gal. . . by nations and the term which is gen. . . all the nations of the earth is acts . . all the kindreds or families of the earth , as mr. c. would have it . . mr. c. seems by families to whom believers should be a blessing , children , as when hee saith , god will ordinarily cast children elect upon elect parents , and by nations neighbourhoods , as when hee saith , the lot of the saints in neighbourhoods and places together , whereas families in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whether rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the lxx gen. . . that is , tribes , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . notes more then posterity or housholds , even whole tribes , and kinreds that draw their line from one great ancestour , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes a whole people of one language , though in their dwellings so remote as to have no entercourse one with another . i will not trouble my self to enquire what difference there is between the words in hebrew and greek which are translated families , tribes , kindreds , nations : this i am sure they contain greater and more ample numbers of men then those who live together under one roof or one town , and if from thence the extent of the covenant be inferred to posterity of believers and their neighbours , and so the seal of the covenant ( as mr. c. doth ) because believers are promised to bee a blessing to posterity and neighbours , it will follow from the termes families and nations , that they are blessings to whole parishes , townes , cities and nations , and they are to be baptised and parochial , city , national churches to bee set up again , against which mr. c. with his brethren have so much hitherto contended . . by mr. cs. exposition whereas the promises are that all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in a believer , this is brought to so narrow a compass , as that it is restrained to posterity and neighbourhood . . the manner how in believers their posterity is said to be blessed , and he a blessing to them is expressed to be , in that god casts elect children upon elect paients , which i know not well how to understand . it seems to bear a sense if not the same yet very near that in which we are said to be chosen in christ , ephes. . , . which mr. c. alledgeth to this purpose , and cor. . . we are of god in him , who is made to us of god wisdom , and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption , which were near blasphemy . which to avoid it concerned mr. c. to have more clearly and distinctly expressed himself . what he saith [ that the covenant made with abraham gen. . , . respecteth families and posteritie ; else he had said all the believers , or all the people of the earth , not all the families of the earth shall bee blessed ] shews his oversight in not observing that it is gal. . . all the nations of the earth , which is equivalent to all the people of the earth , and yet v. . by all the nations of the earth , are meant no more then they that are of faith . and when he saith , that the apostle acts . . could not have said to the jewes , ye are the children of the covenant , had it not respected the children of the people of god , hee heeded not that they are said as well to bee children of the prophets , and therefore the sense is not that they were descended from the covenant or prophets by natural generation , but ye are they to whose ancestours the covenant was at first given , and the prophets sent , which are not common things to all the children of the people of god or true believers , the gentile believers children are not children of the covenant and prophets in the sense there meant , but proper to the jews . nor is the proposition true which mr. c. would gather from the covenant to abraham . for , . god hath plainly discovered his mind rom. . , , , , , , , , , , . that he chuseth at his pleasure children of unbelievers as well as believers , and of the posterity of believers , either none or which he will , arbitrarily and by no ordinary or certain rule , but as a potter doth with his clay , ac●ording to his soveraignty , not out of special grace to the children of his elect for the parents sake , and accordingly the saints praise him for their redemption out of every kinred , and tongue , and people , and nation , rev. . . without respect to their ancestours . . our lord christ foretold matt . , . that he came to divide a man against his father , and the daughter against her mother , and the daughter in law against her mother in law , and a mans enemies should be they of his own house . and in the families of the most godly , how few were found elect may appear by the posterity of david , josiah , jehoshaphat , ●li , samuel , abraham himself , with many more . as for our own experience in our own times it is so uncertain , that no good estimate can be made thereupon , concerning gods ordinary way . perhaps in some families it falls out , that the posterity , and neighbours , and servants are godly , but many complaints of degenerating , of back-sliding , shew it as often to be otherwise . i wish it were true which mr. c. writes , though i find no proof of it , that in all ages god hath cast it so in his providence , that his people are not to be found in all places alike : but we finde them together in some families and nations . now this is not faln out by chance , but because god hath so made his choise , hath been a god to believers and their seed in their generation ; and hath made them blessings for the conversion and edification of their children , neighbours and acquaintance , and that not onely by a common providence , as he blesseth the corn and grass of the field , but it is by vertue of a special word of blessing a creating word of promise , which giveth a being to the things promised , even this promise made to abraham and in him to all believers , gen. , . without which , good examples and other means of education and conversion , had not had such efficacy and power in turning sinners to god. but i do not believe it , sith neither hath the covenant such a sense as mr. c. gives it , nor is there such e●perience proved , and it is found that what good is done among children of believing parents , is done as often by servants , minister , good company , remarkable providences and other wayes , as by parents endeavours , and if without such a promise as mr. c. imagines , such means had not such efficacy , i think not onely parents who believe no such promise , but also ministers , and others who expect a blessing upon their endeavours without mr. cs. promise , would be discouraged in their work . that which is said psal. . . though it prove the perpetuity of gods covenant with abraham , yet proves not the sense mr. c. gives of the covenant . nor doth that luk. . . yeeld any clearness to i● , for salvation came to zacheus his house in respect of his person , and if it did to others in his house , yet it is not said by vertue of the covenant to abraham as mr. c. imagines , and what mr. c. saith about acts . . that it was spoken because of this promise to abraham is his own gloss without any hint from the text , and would infer this proposition , that by vertue of gods promise to abraham upon the faith of an house-keeper his house should be saved , which is contrary to constant experience of believing masters , husbands , parents having unbelieving servants , wives , children . i grant abraham to be the holy root , rom. . . and that v. . the jewes as touching the election are beloved for the fathers sake and that they shall be graffed in again because the gu●●t once given to them , god will not repent of , and though i say not the church bringeth forth children to abraham , yet i yeeld jerusalem which is above the evangelical covenant doth , and that the children of promise , or of the free-woman are abrahams seed ▪ all believers even of the gentiles , but this is so far from proving the blessing upon families and kinreds , and gods ordering in such manner his election , as mr. c. devised , and would have perpetual from psal. . . that it rather proves the contrary . for the breaking off the jews , and the ingraffing the gentiles , not of the families or kinred of the root abraham but a wild olive by nature , proves the blessing not to be to families , nor election so ordered , as that to a thousand generations , to all generations even to the worlds ●nd , god ordinarily casts elect children upon elect parents . nor doth the citing of isa. . . which is rom. . , . with the inference thereupon , prove that god entails his blessing upon families from generation to generation ; but that god hath such a special love to the family of abraham , isaac , and jacob , that after a long breaking off that nation shall be restored again and re-ingraffed for the fathers sake , which is there made the peculiar priviledge of israel after the flesh . but there is not a word in the apostle , rom. . that shews that priviledge to have been enjoyed by believing gentiles since their being graffed into the same root and olive tree from whence the jews were broken off . nor is it true . for god hath removed his candlestick from many places where there were famous churches , a●d from many kindreds , families , and people , where there were formerly godly company and society ; so that now the progeny are become profane , and apostates , and the churches replenished with plants out of families in which a little while since popery , profaneness , and viciousness did abound . no● do cor. . . acts . . make any thing for mr. cs. purpose , as shall appear in the sequel . nor doth the application of circumcis●on to the child , or abrahams title of father of all them that believe , prove the covenant with abraham in mr. cs. sense : nor is it true , the application of circumcision to the child is a necessary and essential part of that ordinance . for that is not an essential part of an ordina●ce without which it might be : but the ordinance of circumcision might be , and perhaps was at first without application to a child , if thereby be meant an infant ; however , if none but parents were circumcised , as when the circumcision was josh. . it had been the ordinance of circumcision nevertheless : when onely one proselyte a● age was circumcised it was the ordinance . ergo. as for what mr. c. answers to the objection from experience , it is indeed a pulling down of what he had spent so much time to build up . for if gods blessing do not take effect through mens sin , or defect of using means , then the promise is not to families and kindreds in that absolute manner mr. c. before described it , then the promise is to the quality and diligence of the persons , not to the relation ; then is the promise as well to any other so qualified and diligent , as to the parent ; then is it false which he said before , pag. . that the success was not from example and other means , but a special word of blessing the promise to abraham . finally , if that be true which he hath pag. . ( which is false printed ) g . that although gods promise be to carry his election so , as to cast elect children upon elect parents , yet he reserveth to himself , and also useth in this a liberty , namely , ever and anon to be still breaking of 〈…〉 graffing in others into this holy root ; then what he said before , p. . f . that god hath thus far limited himself , and discovered his mind and purpose , that he will ordinarily cast elect children upon elect parents , is false : for what god reserveth to himself , and useth a liberty in , he hath not limited himself so far ; and if he ever and anon useth this liberty , to be still breaking of● some , and graffing in others , then he doth not ordinarily cast elect children upon elect parents ▪ for what is otherwise ever and anon and still , is not so ordinarily , much less still in being to a thousand generations , to all generations , even to the worlds end , as he said pag. . g. so that mr. cs. discourse from his own words is found hitherto to contain mistakes , uncertainty , and in the main , inconsistency with it self . let 's view whether in the rest there be any thing worthy of a lord mayors imprimatur . a third thing mr. c. observes as contained in the lords promise unto abraham , is , that by thus blessing and making believers blessings , god would multiply his seed , gen. . . so gen. . , . that this is part of the gospel , and contained in the promise made to him and us , is proved from heb. . . a further proof we have gen. . . alledged rom. . , , . as belonging to believing gentiles , the increase of whose number by means of gods blessing believers so as to make them blessings as abrahams seed , was intended in that promise , and as part of that gospel , which god preached unto abraham : there 's a promise that the kingdome of christ shall fill the world , dan. . , . to this purpose is that of our saviour , matth. . , , . now the lords making believers blessings , and thereby multiplying abrahams seed , is that which makes his kingdome thus to be like leaven , whereby the whole world at last will be seasoned with the knowledge and love of christ. therefore this multiplying of believers , so as to fill the world , is made by the apostle , rom. . . to be part of abrahams promise ; then mark what follows , v. , , . this promise was made sure to all believers , as well gentiles as jews . answ. . why mr. c. makes that the d. thing in gods promise gen. . , . which is the d . and puts that as the d . thing which is after the rest v. . and so the th . i see no reason , but onely that he foresaw that otherwise there had been no colour for this which he here infers , that by thus blessing and making believers blessings god would multiply his seed , gen. . . but the right order of the promises shews this conceit to be only mr. cs. fancy . for in that the promise v. . is put last , it is shewed thereby that it is a distinct promise , and that it doth not express the manner how god would multiply abrahams seed , as mr. c. conceives . . it is true gen. . . is a gospel promise to believing gentiles , rom. . . but not in mr. cs. sense , that the increase of the number of believing gentiles , should be by means of gods blessing believers so as to make them blessings as abrahams seed , in that god would cast ordinarily elect children o● elect parents , and the lot of the saints in neighbourhoods and places together : but in this sense , that abraham should have an innumerable company of children , or his seed among the gentiles by faith , who should be faithfull●●raham ●●raham , gal. . . in their own persons , but no mention is there of their being a blessing to others . . that the church of christ should fill the world , dan. . , . that the kingdome of heaven as a grain of mustard seed , or leaven , matth. . , , . shall fill or season the world ▪ is granted ; but that it is meant in those places to be done in mr. cs. way , is denied : i do conceive it to have been meant of the apostles preaching , as me thinks christs words , matth. . . do import . that the promise of being heir of the world was to abraham and his seed believing gentiles , is granted ; but that his or their being heir of the world did import any such blessing as mr. c. imagines , as if god would ordinarily cast elect children on elect parents , or that any such thing is intimated by the apostle v. , , . is denied : nor do i yet find any interpreter afore mr. c. who hath so expounded the prom●se . in the opening of the th . promise , that the seed of abraham should possess the gates of their enemies , though his exposition be granted , i see not what advantage it gives him for proof of infant baptism , and therefore let it pass ; onely i take notice , that when p. . he makes the multiplying of the seed of abraham , and the conquest of the world to be a spiritual work to be effected by the sword of the spirit the word of god , it follows , that it is to be done by preachers rather then by parents , and consequently not in that way mr. c. imagines , but in the way which christ took , by sending his apostles to preach the gospel to every creature . what he saith p. . of the meaning of gen. . . hath been shewed before to be uncertain , and to be proved false by the history of the church , in that in affrica the posterity of cham were in the church of christ as well as shems and japhets posterity ; and how abrahams seed shall fill the world at last and rule over it , is so doubtfull , as that i conceive no certainty can be thence deduced . the conceit of the four kings gen. . as if their people became afterwards the four monarchies ▪ is such a fancy , as a waking man that knows the distance between rome , greece , and canaan , and the voyage they must take by sea , and other circumstances which the story gen. . and other histories suggest , will take onely for a dream . mr. cs. gloss , p. . on the words of christ , mark . . who soever shall not receive the kingdome of god as a little child ▪ that is , as a child receiveth it , shall not enter therein ; whether he mean i● of the visible church or kingdome of glory , it cannot be true . for let the way of entring the kingdome of god be by birth , or baptism , or any other way , yet a true believer by faith and profession may enter into the kingdome of god in a way different from that a little child receives it in who hath no understanding of christ : and though both be passive in the first work on their souls , yet believers of age are not meerly p●ssive as little children who have no understanding at all of christ. but for the true meaning of christ , i need say no more but refer the reader to christs words , matth. . . whence the meaning appears to be , that no person not endued with that qualification of self-humbling , of which a little child is a fit embleme , psal. . . shall become an inheritour of glory . nor is there any proof made by mr. c. of his dictate , that because christ would that little children also should be members of his kingdome , therefore hath he made it one branch of the gospel of this kingdome , that the families of the righteous shall be blessed . his reason he gives , p. . is no reason ; for god might have gone further then ordinarily ▪ to cast elect children upon elect parents , even to have done so universally and perpetually , and yet we might no more have been sons of god by natural generation , and as much by nature born children of wrath as now we are conceived . though god had not so far , as mr. c. imagines , confined his choice to families , kindreds , and nations , his elect had not been destitute of means of education , sith god could have provided catechists , preachers , and others to that end , in other families , kindreds , and na●ions : sure in some ages of the church there was so little provision made to that end in families , kindreds , and nations , that it appears that almost all the means of education was from monasteries in scotland and ireland , by the histories that remain , as may be seen by seldens epistle before the histories collected by twisden , ushers relation of the irish religion , and elsewhere . if it were the most natural and ready way to multiply the spiritual seed for the increase of gods kingdome , by making believers a blessing to families and nations , as mr. c. saith p. . sure god by sending apostles , and not using kings and masters of families for that end , omitted the readiest and most natural way ; and i see not why it should be judged the best way to propagate the gospel , to gather churches out of parishes , and set pastors over them , or to send itinerant preachers , but to reduce all churches to family and national churches , and to make kings and masters of families elders and rulers over them . nor do i find that either god so casts the lot of his saints together ▪ as mr. c. imagines , or that by that means the gifts of gods people are improved , and light increased ; but by raising up holy teachers and pastors , and associating of the saints from their several dwellings into a well ordered assembly . if as mr. c. saith p. . the israelites destroyed the canaanites not by common rules of righteousness among men , but by special revelation and command from god ; then either they did it not by the promise gen. . . or that promise did not assure them of the possession of canaan by common rules of justice , as mr. c. conceives . that the people of god in the times of the n. t. may not make war against antichrist or babylon and their party as an anathema , but upon a natural and civil account , for the just liberties opposed and invaded by them , may be well doubted , considering sundry passages which are rev. . , . & . , . that the dominion which the saints shall at last obtain , shall need no force either to get or maintain it ; but it shall naturally fall upon them , as from other causes , so also by reason of the●r number , according to the law of nature , and common rules of righteousness , is not proved from isa. . . and how much it may tend to denying the lawfulness of christians fighting in wars , especially if the chief or onely cause be to preserve the godly from oppressions in religion , is to be consid●red . and that power is naturally devolved upon the saints because of their numbers , ( as p. . is intimated , ) seems to me an unsafe speech , as resting on this position , that power is naturally devolved on the greatest number . it is enough that i have onely by the way noted these things , that what men preach and print may be better considered : i pass on to the examining of mr. cs. application . sect . lxxix . neither did circumcision seal mr. cs. additional promise , nor was abraham thence termed father of believers . the first thing mr. c. observes is , that in the promise to abraham there 's an addition made to the former promise to adam , gen. . . which i grant , but not such an addition as mr. c. conceivs . the next is , that to this promise of making believers blessings to families and nations , god made an addition of the seal of circumcision , and the application of this seal to infants is part of the se●l , thereby signifying and confirming that promise of such blessing . so gen. . , . had not the application of it to the infant been part of the token of the covenant the childs not being circumcised had not been a breach of the covenant ; nor could the lord have said , this is my covenant , that the manchild be circumcised , if the application of that ordinance to the child , had not in it a signification and confirmation of something in the covenant . answ. there are these things to be proved : . that circumcision was a seal of the covenant made to abraham gen. . . that circumcision was a seal of this promise of god , of making believers blessings to families and nations in order to the multiplying the seed , and encrease of the kingdome of christ. . that the application of this seal to infants is part of the seal . . that thereby was signified and confirmed that promise of such blessing . but the proof is of other things , . that the application of circumcision to the infant is part of the token of the covenant . . the application of that ordinance to the child , had in it a signification and confirmation of something in the covenant ; for neither is it all one to bee a token and to bee a seal of the covenant , there being other tokens then seals ; and signe and token being the same , though distinguished rom. . . they are unfitly confounded by mr. c. nor is it all one to signifie something in the covenant , and to signifie this thing in the covenant , that god would make believers blessings in mr. cs. sense . not doth either of mr. cs. middle terms prove either of his conclusions . for the childs not being circumcised had been a breach of the covenant , as being a breach of the command of god enjoyned then , though circumcising the child had been no part of the token of the covenant , and the lord might have said , this is my covenant that the man child bee circumcised , that is , this is my command in my covenant , if the application of that ordinance to the child , had not in it a signification and confirmation of something in the covenant . but allowing that circumcision is called the covenant by a metonimy of the thing signified for the signe , and that it signified something in the covenant beeing applied to infants , yet not one of mr. carters propositions is proved thereby ; for . it may be a signe and not a seal . . it might be a seal of the covenant gen. . yet not of that promise gen. . . which is in another covenant , not in that gen. . . if it were a seal of that promise gen. . . yet not in mr. cs. new devised sense . . ●o omit the ineptness or non sense of the speech , the application of this seal to infants is part of the seal . for what doth hee mean by the application of this seal to infants but onely circumcision , and hee before called circumcision the seal which hee meant ; so that his speech can have no other construction then this , circumcision of infants is part of circumcision , which is inept or non-sense , i say further that the speech is not true . for if it bee a part it is either essential or integral , i know no other sort of parts it can bee meant of ; but it it is not a part essential , for then without application to infants there should bee no seal , and so a proselyte had not the seal though hee were circumcised , unless hee had an infant manchild and hee circumcised , nor integral , for the circumcision of a proselyte was entire circumcision or seal ( as they speak ) without his manchilds circumcision . thence also , saith mr. c. is that in acts . . that is , he did it according to that covenant of circumcision , so as the application of the seal to the infant was part of the covenant to bee performed on the part of abraham and his seed in their generations , even by his spiritual seed to a thousand generations , in that which is the same for substance , and equivalent to circumcision , as we shall see anon . answ. that god gave abraham the covenant of circumcision , and so , or accordingly , or he ( according to the copies that have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) begate isaac , and circumcised him the eighth day is not denied , nor that he did this according to the covenant of circumcision , that is according to the command of god concerning circumcision as a signe of his covenant gen. . in which sense it is granted that the applica●ion of the seal ( meaning circumcision ) to the ( male ) infant was part of the covenant to be performed on the part of abraham and his seed in their generations , but this proves not what mr. c. undertook to prove , that it was part of the seal , or part of the token of the covenant ( it beeing not all one to bee part of the covenant and part of the seal or token of the covenant ) unless mr. c. confounds them ( as he seems to do ) nor is there any word of god for application of any seal to the infant but circumcision , the text is express for circumcision , this is my covenant which ye shall keep between me and you and thy seed after thee , every man child shall bee circumcised , which can bee understood of no other then circumcision , without making god to speak non-sense , and making god command a thing in words which they signifie not , and making god to command a thing indefinite and indeterminate , which no wise law-giver doth , and making a pronoun demonstrative to import not the definite thing expressed , but some other individuum vagum , of which it is uncertain what it is , contrary to the very exposition of the holy ghost gen. . . where it is expresly said , that abrahams circumcising was as god had said unto him , contrary to what abraham , and all interpreters jewish and christian ( that i have ever met with afore mr. c. ) have conceived , and which i● it be granted it will follow that if the male child of abrahams posterity had not been circumcised , but had another seal of the covenant applied to it , the covenant or command gen. . , , , . had not been broken , moses had kept the command if he had baptised his son , though he did not circumcise him . these and many more absurdi●ies follow on that portentous opinion , which i guessed long since by some words of mr. cawdrey and palmer in the first part of thei● sabb. rediv . ch . § . . to have been hatching to maintain the judaizing conceit of infant baptism from infant circumcision , that they might not seem therein to run on the rock of holding the law of circumcision yet in force ; yet might have some colour for a command of infant baptism , gen. . , , , , , . where infant circumcision is commanded and nothing else , but i found it not so expresly vented by any afore mr. c. now what saith he for it ? ● . that this part of the covenant was to be performed by abrahams spiritual seed . but hee doth not prove that it was to bee performed by abrahams spiritual seed of the gentiles after christs comming . hee urgeth the words of the psalmist psalm . . . hee hath remembred his covenant for ever : the word which hee commanded to a thousand generations . but first , the word is not meant of the command of a seal to bee applied to infants , but of his own promise , which hee will have firme as his command , psalm . . . & . . & . . as the new annotat . and piscat . on the place , which also appears from the words following , which terme it gods covenant hee made with abraham , and his oath unto isaac , which is expressed vers . . which cannot be understood of his command to us what we should do , but his promise of what hee himself will do . secondly , the word commanded signifieth gods decree within himself ; or as diodati in his note on the place , hee commanded ] which hee appointed by his soveraign and irrevocable decree , as the word commanded is used psalm . . . and elsewhere . thirdly , to a thousand generations , notes not just so many ; but as piscator in his scholi● on the place , it is by a synecdoche of the kinde , as if it were said unto many ages . and this must needs bee granted , sith the covenant however it bee granted to imply in the latent sense the promise of the heavenly inheritance , yet in the patent sense must bee understood ( as v. . . compared shew ) of the earthly canaan : which they had not a thousand generations , but for many ages ; as exod. . , to thousand generations is meant not precisely so many and no more , but a long time indefinite , beyond three or four generations : and thus must also bee understood the promise of the land of canaan to bee for ever , to be an everlasting possession , that is , for a long time , as frequently it is used exod. . . exod. . . sam. . . levit. . , , , , &c. what hee saith of baptism being the same for substance and equivalent to circumcision , unless hee mean it , that infant baptism and infant circumcision are one equivalent to the other , and the same for substance in this sense [ they are of no force not obliging christians nor benefiting them ] it will be found in examining that which follows , to have no truth . mr. c. adds , and that this blessing upon families and posterity was signified , held forth , and sealed by circumcising the child , appeareth further by that promise uttered in that phrase , deut. . . which kind of expression intimates , that the promise of the conversion of their children was held forth , and confirmed in that seal . as when the apostle saith wee are baptized into one body , is signified and sealed in baptism our union with christ in one body , because else those words had been in no capacity to have been so used in that sense , as they are used both by the apostle and by moses . answ. . the phrase of circumcising the heart , deut. being used to express conversion or change of the heart , doth shew indeed that there is some resemblance between them , yet that it is so by institution is not proved , no more then because by breaking up our fallow ground , together with circumcising , the same thing is si●nified jer. . , . and by washing , isa. . . therefore plowing and washing are by institution to bee used to that end , . but be it granted that circumcision was instituted to signifie the ch●nge of the heart , as baptism our union with christ in one body , yet this proves not that it was to signifie and seal a promise of something future , but rather what was already done . for if it signifie as baptism , then it signifies conversion already effected , baptism being a sign that the person was united to christ and to all his members by one spirit , as the very terms cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wee have been baptised , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we have been drencht , shew . and though the words deut. . . are a promise , yet the term [ circumcise ] of it self , and in like manner the use of circumcision , according to the institution , may as well note a thing done , as a thing promised to bee done . . nevertheless let it bee granted that circumcision did in the institution of it note conversion of the heart , and signified a promise of it as being a token of the covenant in which that was covertly promised , yet this proves not that it held forth a blessing upon families and posterity . for there is no mention deut. . . of families , though there be of posterity , and that mention which is of posterity , is of them not in their infant , but adult estate , and upon condition of the childs returning to god , and obeying his voice as well as the parents , as mr. baxter rightly observes in his friendly accommodation with mr. bedford p. . i may add , that the promise there is expressed onely concerning one case , to wit repentance in captivity , v. , . , . and the promise ( as appears from v. . ) is a promise peculiar to the israelites . . but were this further granted , that thence might be proved that circumcision by institution signified the promise of conversion of posterity , and that this were to gentile believers , yet this is nor that which mr. c. would evince , that the application of the seal to infants in that it was to infants sealed this promise , or that the promise was sealed in mr. cs. sense , so as that god would ordinarily cast elect children on elect parents , and make parents a blessing , so as that abrahams seed by faith should be multiplied in families and nations by them . what mr. c. adds , that the sign had not held proportion with the thing signified ; namely , there had been nothing in the sign to signifie and seal that blessing upon posterity , had the application of it to infants been left out , is but a vain dictate . for . if the sign held similitude with the thing signified , though it held not proportion so as to be applied to all whose conversion was signified it might serve for the use of a sign , as a conveyance to a father may assure the childs interest ; and therefore that which mr. c. dictates , that for this reason infants were to be circumcised , to seal that promise of believers being a blessing , added to adams covenant , is a vain conceit without proof , sith it might have been as well assured if the parents had been circumcised onely , as well as when the male infants onely were circumcised . and that which he saith further is most false , and vain , nor indeed had there been any use of the application of it to the infant , nor that made a part of the ordinance , had there not been such a branch in the covenant as a blessing upon families and posterity to be thereby signified and sealed . for besides this , that mr. c. proves neither that branch in the covenant , nor that use of infant circumcision , it is clear by stephens speech , act. . , , , . that abraham circumcised isaac in assurance of the land of canaan , and that he received the covenant of circumcision to that end : and that the circumcising of infants had this use , to signifie christ to come , seems plainly to be delivered by the apostle , col. . . and by the general consent of divines . much more vain is that which he adds , so as if that priviledge be denied unto infants , that which was given to us in abrahams covenant is rejected , as he saith gen. . the uncircumcised man-child shall be cut off from his people , he hath broken my covenant . for neither if mr. cs. sense of the promise gen. . . gen. . , . be rejected , is there any thing which was given to us in abrahams covenant rejected , nor had the denying of circumcision to infants necessarily inferred the rejecting of that which was given in abrahams covenant ; nor do the words gen. . . import , that by not circumcising the person omitting it had rejected that which was given in abrahams covenant , for so moses not circumcising his son had rejected the covenant ; but the breaking the covenant was onely meant of breaking the command of that which was the token of the covenant . much less is this true of those that deny infant baptism , that they reject the spiritual blessings given in abrahams covenant , baptism being not by christs institution a seal of gods covenant or promise to us , unless by consequence , much less the mixt covenant of abraham , as it contained domestical benefits proper to abrahams house , much more less the new conceited promise of mr. c. nor was infant baptism ever commanded by god , but invented by men in a fond imitation of jewish circumcision ; and as long as we keep close to the institution matth. . . and baptize and are baptized upon believing in testimony of our union with christ and his church , cor. . . we may securely flight mr. cs. doom of being cut off from gods people , which after mr. cotton refuted by me in the second part of this review , sect . . he hath vainly here renewed to affright silly people with . mr. c. adds , that abraham was called father of believers , . from believing this additional promise given in order to the increase of his spiritual seed , which he proves from rom. . . gen. . . . from his receiving the seal of that promise , rom. . . from which place we may observe , . that circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of faith . . that because it was a seal of that righteousness , which he had before he was circumcised , he therefore became the father of all that believe , whether circumcised or not . now had not this seal been given him that he might be the father of believers , his receiving it at this or that time , whether before , or after his believing to righteousness , had made nothing for the universality of his relation as a father of all believers . answ. i grant that abrahams believing the promise , gen. . . and his receiving circumcision a seal of that righteousness of faith he had in uncircumcision , was the reason of his title of father of believers . and i grant that abrahams personal circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of faith to all believers circumcised or uncircumcised , and therefore he had it afore his circumcision , that it might not be judged as proper to the circumcised . but . i deny , that the promise was gen. . . as mr. cs. additional promise is , that every believer should be a blessing to his family and posterity , so as that god should ordinarily cast elect children on elect parents ; but that abraham , though then childless , should have innumerable children by natural generation , though he were and his wife aged , and more by believing as he did . . the scripture doth not say , that abrahams circumcision was a seal of the promise gen. . . but a seal of the rightiousness of faith he had , gen. . . it was not a seal of a promise of a thing future , but of a benefit obtained many years before . : i find not any ones circumcision , but the circumcision which abraham had in his own person , stiled the seal of the righteousness of faith , nor to any but him that believes as he did . . that his receiving the seal is not made the reason of abrahams relation of father of all believers , but justification by faith afore he received circumcision . nor do i find that any of mr. cs. assertions is proved from rom. . , . that circumcision was a seal of the covenant , gen. . or of mr. cs. additional promise , or that the application to infants was part of the seal , or that by it mr. cs. imagined promise was confirmed , and therefore this text is impertinently alledged also mr. c. adds ▪ that it was not abrahams faith onely , nor his degree of faith above others which gave him that title , appeareth . because others were as eminent believers as he before him . . there was something given which believers had not , at least in such a way had not before , in reference to which he was so called , therefore it was not for his faith onely , nor the eminency thereof . . there is nothing in faith or the eminency thereof , that could occasion that his name to be given to him ; but it was in reference to something which he was to have as a father this additional promise and the seal thereof , he was the first father that received this blessing which was a blessing upon parents and their children ; and because at least in a great part by vertue thereof the holy seed was to be propagated and encreased . and believers are said to be his seed , because that promise and covenant made to abraham concerning the lords blessing and multiplying his seed , is so much a cause of their being brought forth unto christ ; his ordering his election so as to bestow his blessing thus by families and nations , being that which makes the kingdome of heaven like leaven , one believer ordinarily being the means of the conversion of another . answ. the title [ father of believers ] is a relative , with which abraham was denominated from his fatherhood as the form denominating , and this form denominating was from his begetting justified believers as the foundation , this begetting justified believers i know not how otherwise it should be then by his exemplary faith , and gods declaration of his justification by it ; which the apostle doth plainly intimate , rom. . . by expressing abrahams children in this phrase , walking in the steps of his faith . the object indeed of this faith was the promise gen. . . not mr. cs. imagined promise to other believers , and so the promise was the occasion , and in some sort the cause of the title , as the object may be said to be the cause of the act in somewhat an abusive expression . his personal circumcision was a sign or seal of that whence the title came , the righteousness of faith ; and a token of that covenant wherein god declared it , gen. . , ▪ but circumcision did not make him such , he was such afore circumcision was instituted , gen. . , . nor is it said rom. . . that his receiving circumcision was that he might be the father of the faithfull , but his having righteousness by faith before circumcision made him the father of justified believers of all nations . nor do mr. cs. reasons prove the contrary . for . though others faith might be as strong , yet no ones faith was so ●minently exemplary , the time and other circumstances considered ; and this is apparent from rom. . , , , . . abraham had that exemplary faith , and promise and declaration of god , which no saint had before in the manner i have explained it . . this was fit to denominate him father of believers , as sara the mother of obedient and well doing wives , pet. . . by her exemplary obedience to her husband , and we are termed children of god by following him , ephes . . . wicked men children of the devil by doing his lusts , joh. . . it is true , we are to look to other examples , chiefly christs , heb , , , . yet none of meer men so eminently believed as abraham , and therefore no meer sinfull man is propounded as a copy or pattern equal to him . as for mr. cs. reason , it is not right . for . mr. cs. additional promise in his sense is but a figment . . there is not the least hint in scripture of that as th● reason of the title . . if he were the first father that received this blessing , then it was two thousand years and more afore god ordered his ele●tion as mr. c. imagines , then believing parents had not this blessing before , whereas if there were such a blessing , it was rather before then after abrahams time ; for we find not any setled ministery by which the spiritual seed was multiplied afore abrahams time , therefore it is more likely to have been by believing parents ; but after abrahams time we read of prophets and apostles , priests and teachers appointed to that end . and if abraham were the first who received this blessing , then this was not perpetual , and so the application of the seal to infants not moral , sith the foundation of it beg●n but in abraham . sure i am , this directly crosseth mr. richard baxters conceit of infants visible churchmembership by promise gen. . . which i leave to them to contend about . what mr. c. saith of the reason of the title of abrahams seed given to believers , is quite besides the scripture , rom. . , . gal. . joh. . . and what he saith of one believers being ordinarily the means of conversion of another , is true rather of others , specially preachers of the gospel , then parents , housholders , princes : and i wish it were better considered by him , whether by his dictates all along in making the multiplying of the spiritual seed to be by every believers being a blessing to families and nations , by ascribing ordinarily conversion hereunto ; and that p. . not onely by common providence , or so much by good education and example , but by vertue of a special word of blessing , a creating word of promise to all believers , without which other means of conversion had not had such efficacy and power in turning sinners to god , do not cross the apostles speech , ephes. . . be not contrary to the experience both of the first and continued gathering of the churches of christ , and do not indeed undermine and blow up a select ministery for conversion , as being useless , without assurance of gods blessing , god having provided another way , and ordinarily working by it according to a special promise . and how much this tends to justifie that disorder of every gifted brothers pretended prophesying and teaching in the churches , which is the occasion of the jangling and schisms by which churches are torn asunder and perverted , is easily discernable . but of this onely by the way . what mr. c. hath summed up , p. . hath been examined , and found to be a fardel of mistakes : let 's view the rest . those insinuations which are p. . as if antipaedobaptists did easily part with ancient entailed priviledges , wherein the saints have rejoyced for so many ages ; wanted so much compassion on their children , as not to blot their names out of heaven , or thrust them out of the kingdome of christ into the kingdome of satan ; have been so often discovered to be false and gross abuses , as that were not men resolved to use any artifices to uphold an ill cause by creating prejudices against their adversaries , they would leave them . but mr. c. thinks to prove infant baptism from hence , and thus he argues . sect . lxxx . mr. cs. conceit , as if gen. . . were a command in force to abrahams spiritual seed in the n. t. is shewed to be vain . if this be granted , that the promise made to abraham gen. . especially that part of i● v. . concerning canaan to bee an everlasting possession to his seed bee of such extent , and made also to his spiritual seed of the new testament , it will follow that that command of god in those words next following v. . is to bee meant also of his spiritual seed even in our dayes , and as a command that now lieth upon the same spiritual seed in all generations , in as much as that command is brought in with a therefore , upon the promise made to the same seed in the words v. . answ. hitherto paedobaptists have been wont to deduce infant baptism , from the connexion between the promise gen. . . to be a god to abraham and his seed , and the command v. , , , , . . which it seems mr. c. dares not rest on , but takes another way , and yet seems not very certain what to pitch upon . for whereas p. . to clear the duty of infant baptism , he sums up his suppositions ; that god made to abraham gen. . , . & . , . an additional promise of believers being a blessing to families and nations , that for confirmation of this hee added a seal , to wit circumcision , that the application of it to infants was part of the token of the covenant , thereby that additional promise was sealed , in reference to them abraham was called the father of all them that believe ; who would not think that he would have inferred infant baptism from these suppositions , and the conn●xion between his additional promise and seal ? but in stead thereof , as if all hee had before discoursed had been out of the way hee meant to take , whether because there is a great distance between the command gen. . . and the promise gen. . , . or whether he saw his exposition would not stand good , he now goes another way to work , and thinks to deduce infant baptism from the connexion between the promise gen. . and the precept v. . and his inference is thus made ; the promise is concerning canaan to be an everlasting possession to abrahams seed , ergo to his spiritual seed in the n. t if so , then the command lieth upon the spiritual seed still v. . and this the word [ therefore ] v. . implies . that precept ties onely to keep the covenant by seal●ng with the seal of it , their children , v. ● . explains what seal should be for that time now another is come in the room of it , which is for substance the same , and equivalent to it ▪ parents are bound by the precept gen. . . the former seal ceasing and another substituted to baptise their children . this is as near as i well can gather it , the force of mr. cs. discourse . against which i except , . that the term [ everlasting possession , gen. . . ] doth not prove it to bee meant of another canaan then that part of the earth which the israelites possessed . for besides places before alledged , wherein the terms everlasting and for ever are vsed for a time of some few ages , and shorter , numb . . . god promiseth a covenant of an everlasting priesthood to phinehas and his seed after him ; and yet we know that priesthood was to cease heb. . . it is promised ier. . . that ionadab the son of rechab should not want a man to stand before god for ever , and yet this could be true onely of some ages : therefore mr. cs. reason is of no force from the term [ everlasting ] to infer the extent of that promise to the n. t. nor indeed can the reason be good . for if it were , then god should not promise at all the possession of the earthly canaan in that place : but that is manifestly false ; for the text saith , gen. . . that god would give to abraham and his seed , the land of canaan , wherein abraham was then a stranger : which can be understood of no other then that part of earth which is elsewhere called the land of the canaanites , per●zites , jebusites , &c. i deny not that in the latent sense there may be a promise of eternal life to abrahams spiritual seed , though i find no passage in the n. t. so expounding the promise gen. . . yet sure it is but bold presumption to build any doctrine on an allegory not expounded so by the holy ghost ; and it is in mine apprehension , a great usurpation of the divine prerogative , to impose duties on men consciences by arguments drawn from such devised senses . . that mr. c. builds his inference upon the conjunction [ therefore , gen. ● . ] which though it be so in the english translation , yet is it in hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rendred by the tigur . and thou ; by pareus , but thou ; by piscator , thou verily ; which is enough to shew there is no strength in mr. cs. inference , sith there is no firm ground on which it rests . . but were it granted that [ therefore , gen. . . ] were the onely reading , and that the command is to be meant also of abrahams spiritual seed even in our days , yet that the inference of the command , v. . should be onely from the promise v. . or v. . and not also from the promises v. , , i know no go●d reason i● or can be given . . were it that there could be good reason given thereof , yet sith the promise v. . is mixt , containing both spiritual promise ( if mr. c. be in the right ) and promise pecu●iar to the natural seed of abraham , me thinks the precept should be onely to that spiritual seed which is also natural , and not bind the gentile believers , sith they have no part of the promise as it concerns the p●ssession of the earthly canaan , from which the duty is inferred as well , if not onely , as from the promise of the heavenly canaan , . but were all that mr. c. would have here granted , that the term [ everlasting possession , v. . ] proves it meant of the times of the n. t. that [ therefore ] v. ● . proves the command extends to the spiritual seed now , that it is from the promise , v. . or . not from the rest v , , . that it is to gentile believers now , and not peculiar to israel after the flesh , yet sure if the promise b● the reason of the command , and the command● belongs to them to whom the promise belongs , it belongs to no other ▪ and therefore to none but elect persons to whom that promise is made ; no meere professours of faith are bound to keep gods covenant by vertue of the promise , sith no promise is made to them . . were this also granted , that the command is to every professour of faith to keep the covenant as is enjoyned v. . then it remains still as a duty for every professour of christian faith to circumcise his males of eight days old ( which is contrary to christianity ; ) for there is no other thing commanded there then circumcision but to prevent this , mr. c. saith . it is to be observed , that this command of god is primarily fixed upon the general duty , namely , the covenant to be kept , and not upon this or that way of keeping ▪ either by circumci●●ng or baptizing : so as the circumcising of the child came under the command onely upon this , because it was declared then to be the token of the covenant ; and by the words it is supposed , that when it should cease to be the token of the covenant , it should no longer be a duty ; and what else , by the same authority , should be made the token of the same covenant , would be the duty in stead thereof . mark the words , he doth not say , thou shalt therefore circumcise every man-child among you as a token of the covenant between me and you ; for so had that been made the token for perpetuity , to have continued so long as the covenant it self . but . in general he saith , v. . that is , they should observe and perform the token of the covenant whatever that prove to be ; and he addeth in the d. place , v. , . therefore , as i said , as for circumcision , that was a duty onely upon those words , declaring that to be then the token . circumcision is now abolished ▪ yet the command of keeping the token of abrahams covenant is still in force , and binding to abrahams spiritual seed in their generations ; therefore what is now the token of that covenant must be observed in stead thereof . answ. no wise and just law-giver would ever make such a command of a general duty concerning ceremonies or rites then undetermined , but to be determined two thousand years after , thou shalt keep my covenant , that is , what ceremony i shall now appoint thee , or what i shall hereafter appoint when i take that away : such indefinite dis-junctive commands so ambiguous , un-intelligible , to be understood at one time one way , at another time another way , are so like delphick jugling answers , as that i dare not ascribe them to the almighty . many absurdities follow on this conceit of mr. c. which i have before set down . for present these arguments from the text are against it . . there is nothing enjoyned gen. . . but what abraham was enjoyned in his own person to do as well as his seed after him in their generations ; this is proved from the express words , and god said unto abraham , thou shalt keep my covenant therefore , and again , thou and thy seed after thee in their generations , twice is this imposed on abraham distinctly named , and the term [ therefore ] spectially applied to him , and after with difference , from yet with his seed , so that to deny this , is to deny it's light when the sun shines at noon day . but to abrahams person was not enjoyned to observe and perform the token of the covenant whatever that prove to be , for then hee had been bound to baptise , which is absurd , ergo. . this precept is as well to abrahams natural seed in their generations , as to his spiritual seed , for the precept belonging to those to whom the promise belongs , and it cannot be denied the promise v. . to belong to abrahams natural seed , at least such as moses , david , afore christ , it followes they were bound to observe and perform the token of the covenant what ever that p●ove to be , and consequently to baptise , which is absurd . . if this precept be to the spiritual seed of the gentiles , then gentile believers are bound to observe and perform the token of the covenant whatever that prove to be : but circumcision the text it self makes the token of the covenant , ergo , gentile believe●s by this exposition are bound to circumcise . . from v. . that covenant was enjoyned v. . and no other , which is expressed v. . this is proved from the form of words which do plainly shew gods meaning , this is the covenant which yee shall keep , which are as express as words can bee that hee meant no other covenant to bee kept then what is set down v. ● , &c. but that is onely circumcision , therefore no other is there enjoyned v. . but what need i so fully refu●e that which hath no proof at all brought for it , but mr. cs. word ! it 's enough to tell him that it is his dream , and to let the lord mayor and aldermen of london know that they have been enamoured on a vain phantasme . and ●et were it grant●d him and them , it will never serve their turn to prove infant baptism by . for . the command gen. . . is not in these words [ thou shalt keep the token of my covenant therefore ] but [ thou shalt keep my covenant therefore ] and therefore if according to mr. cs. exposition it be a general duty not fixed upon this or that way of keeping , and there are other wayes of keeping the covenant then by keeping the token of the covenant , the words may be meant of other duties then seals , as he cals them of the covenant , as particularly what is required gen. . . to walk before god and be perfect , upon which god promiseth to make his covenant v. . and so the precept gen. . . may be observed without any seal at all . . but if it be limited to the keeping of the token of the covenant , yet it follows not it must be either baptising or circumcising , there being other tokens of the covenant besides these , as the passeover , the lords supper , and therefore i● it command them to observe the token of the covenant what ever it prove to be , it ties them to observe the lords supper , and if it must bee observed ●y this rule here , then it must be given to infants as well as bap●ism . . hence ariseth a further exception , that if it were yeelded , that a token of the covenant indefinite ●s commanded , and baptism meant after circu●cision , yet sure the command ties not to observe baptism after the rule of circumcision , bu● after the institution of baptism in the ●ew testament . and the reason is plain , the command v. . being onely of a general duty comma●●s not the particular rite , neither circumcision nor baptism ▪ therefore there is no rule how to observe baptism gen. . . then v . , ● , ● , . is by mr. cs. ●wn exposition ● rule onely about circumcisi●n , who , and whom , and when ●o circumcise , nor do i think mr. c. dares sa● , that the rule about the manner of circumstances of circumcising , is a rule about the manner of circumstances of ●●ptising , for then the hous●older should bee bound to baptise all his males of eight dayes old , servants , and children , and among them himself if unbaptized , none afore eight days old , no female , none but his own house , he should wash not the face , but the privy member . if mr. c. to serve his turn yet devise another general law about the manner of observing the ●ites of the new testament , besides the particular institutions and examples of christ and his apostles in the new testament — erit mihi magnus apollo , and if mr. c. or any o●her , find a●y institution or example of infant baptim in the new testament , i shall believe they can cut a whetstone with a rasour . . saith mr. c ▪ it is supposed by the words , that when circumcision should cease to be the token of the covenant , it should no longer be a duty , and that circumcision is now abolished . but . if v . be a command still in force , and bind to observe still the token of the covenant what ever it proved to be , and that was circumcision , then it binds still to observe circumcision . it is said , v. . he that is born in thy house , and he that is bought with thy money must needs be circumcised , and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant . now if mr. cs. reasoning be good , the promise is v. . of an everlasting possession , therefore it extends to the spiritual seed even in the new testament ; by the same reason , sith v. . it is said gods covenant shall be in their flesh ( which is by carnal circumcision ) for an everlasting covenant , gods command is in the new testament to abrahams spiritual seed , true believers of the gentiles , that they be circumcised in their flesh , contrary to gal. . . act. . . it is supposed that baptism in the new testament is the token of abra●ams covenant , which is not proved , but is m●nifestly false : for then by it every believer should be assured of the land of canaan , that k●ngs shall come of him , &c. as is promised , gen. . v. , , , , . but that is false , and a meer jewish conceit . . it is said withou● any shew of proof , that by the words it is supposed , that what else besides circumcision by the same authority should be made the token of the same covenant , would be the duty in stead thereof : but neither do the words say , or suppose , that when circumcision should cease to be a token of the covenant , it should no longer be a duty ; nor that what else by the same authority should be made the token of the same covenant , would bee the duty in stead thereof ; there 's not a word that tends to either supposal , nor can be either true . for the jews circumcision was not abolished by any words gen. . but by the apostles declaration , act. . which doth not in the least hint any colection of its ceasing from gen. . but from the calling of the gentiles : nor is the reason there or anywhere else of its ceasing , taken from its ceasing to be the token of abrahams●ovenant ●ovenant , but from the calling the gentiles , the comming of faith , &c. yea , the jewish ●ircumcision still used ceaseth not to be the token of abrahams covenant , and yet the command gen . , ● , ● , , . bind●th not . nor is the other speech true . for by the same authority , according to mr. c. the passeover , the lords supper , were made tokens of the same coven●●t , and yet ●or duties in stead of circumcision . . if when circumcision ceased there was 〈◊〉 be a duty in stead thereof by vertue of the command . gen. . . and because of the promise of an everlasting possession , v. . it must extend to the new testament to the spiritual seed , and be of a spiritual blessing ; by the same reason , circumcision being made an everlasting covenant , v. . the command gen. . . should be of a spiritual keeping of gods covenant , and the circumcision that comes in the stead of circumcision in the flesh should be circumcision of the heart and obedience , which the new testament seems to intimate , rom. . , , . cor. . . phil. . . col. . . . it is supposed , but not proved , that baptism is in stead of circumcision ▪ but mr. c. thinks to prove it , onely by the way he takes in to illustrate his conceit about gen. . . something about the sabba●h , exod. . , . of which he saith thus . the like manner of institution we have concerning the sabbath ; therefore those who deny infant baptism , oftentimes deny the sabbath ; and not without cause , for there is the same reason of both , and we may illustrate the one by the other . the lord intended in time to change the day from the th . day to the first of the week , as he intended in time to change the token of abrahams covenant : therefore in the th . commandment also , the command is not primarily fixed upon the th . or any day to be remembred and kept holy , but upon the general duty , that the rest day of the lord be remembred and kept holy , what ever that day fall to be . remember the sabbath day , that is the rest day , to keep it holy ; and the lord blessed the rest day , and sanctified it . and the remembrance and keeping of the th . day is in the commandment made a duty for this reason , because that was declared to be then the day wherein god had entred into his rest after his making of the world . and upon the same account , when after the travel of his soul , in the new creation , he entred the second time into his rest , as is declared that he did , heb. . , . because that was upon the first day of the week , when he rose from the dead ; therefore by vertue of that command , remember the rest day to keep it holy ; the first day of the week is now to be remembred and kept holy , in as much as that is now the rest day of the lord our god , as formerly the th . day . answ. that those who deny infant baptism do not , or need not deny the sabbath , is shewed in my examen , part . sect . . in my praecursor , sect . . in the second part of my review , sect . . and what mr. c. ha●h said for his opinion of inferring the lords day sabbath from heb. , & . hath been examined before , and shewed insufficient for his purpose . that which now he brings from his conceit of the command , exod . , . is to me very doubtfull , and yet were it certain , would not answer mr. cs. expectation . his conceit is doubtfull to me for these reasons , . because if his conceit were right , when it is said remember the sabbath day , and the lord blessed the sabath day , the term [ sabbath day ] should be conceived as a genus or species comprehending under it the rest day of the jews and the christians , and such other rest days as god should appoint to be observed . b●t against this are these things : . that i find not where the term [ sabbath day ] is meant or applied to any other then the th . day of the week . i grant that other days are termed [ sabbaths , sabbaths of rest , ] levit. , , , . but no where that i yet find , is any day besides the last of the week termed the sabbath day . . the blessing of the sabbath day , exod. . . was the same with the blessing , gen. . . for it is a narration of what god did in the beginning , and that day was the seventh in order after the six days in which he created his work . . me thinks the evangelist luke . ▪ when he saith , they rested on the sabbath day according to the commandment ( which commandment is that exod. . , . ) and that sabbath being by the confession of all the last day of the week , doth plainly expound the fourth commandment of that particular sabbath which was the seventh day in order from the creation , and the last day of the week . i confess there are difficulties from this exposition , concerning the evacuating of the fourth commandment , which being besides my present business , i shall not now insist on , it being sufficient for my present purpose to shew why i conceive mr. cs. exposition doubtfull . . yet were hi● interpretation granted , it would not serve his turn here . for . keeping gods covenant , gen. . . is without any example or colour of reason re●trained to seals ( as they are termed ) of the covenant , and made the genus to circumcision and baptism , as the term [ sabbath ] may be to all festivals . if it were , yet there is not the same reason of circumcision and baptism as of the sabbath and the ●orns day , the one being a moral command , and the other meerly ceremonial if the meaning were gen. . . that a duty were commanded in general to keep the token sign , or seal of the covenant , then it is a command concerning any token of the covenant , the passeover and lords supper , as well as circumcision and baptism ; and if so , then they are to be observed according to the rule there , v. , , , , . and if so , they are to be applied to male infants of eight days old as well as baptism , or according to the rules delivered in the institution of each rite ; and if so , the command gen. . , , , , , . will make nothing for infant baptism , unless it can be proved ou● of the institution and practise in the n. t. but to prevent this , mr. c. saith . sect . lxxxi . the succession of baptism to circumcision and their identity for substance to us is shewed to be unproved by mr. carter , mr. marshal , mr. church , dr. homes , mr. cotton , mr. fuller , mr. cobbet , from col. . , . or elsewhere . ly . for answer further , it is to be considered , that baptism is now in the room of circumcision , and is the very same for substance to us , as circumcision was to them before christ , namely , the token and seal of that covenant made with abraham and his seed , as appeareth gal . , . as many of you as have been baptixed into christ , have put on christ. and if ye be christs , then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise . by which we see , that whatever we have as abrahams seed , we have it all in christ ; and what we have in christ , we have it all as abrahams seed ; and that we are baptized into christ ▪ that is our initiation into christ ; and what ever we have as abrahams seed , is sealed unto us in baptism . by which it is evident , that as circumcision was to them , so baptism now to us is the token and seal of that covenant made with abraham and his seed . answ. if this were granted , yet mr. cs. purpose were not obtained , that the application of the seal to infants were justified by the command gen. . , , , , , . for the reasons before given . but because i conceive these assertions contain errours , such as do mislead pae●obaptists , i shall examine mr. cs. allegations , and together with them mr. marshals reply to my examen about his third conclusion , and what i find material in other of my antagonists about the point of baptisms succeeding circumcision . two assertions are laid down here by mr. c. . that baptism is now in the room of circumcision . . that it is the very same for substance to us as circumcision was to jews before christ. neither of which are true , or proved by any thing brought by mr. c. or any other , though this be the chief thing they alledge for infant baptism ; and mr. church , p. . out of dr. whitaker , tels us , all the anabaptists will not be able to resist this argument from circumcision . let 's try the strength of it . the latter position seems to be this , that as circumcision was to the jews , so baptism now to us is the token and seal of the covenant made with abraham and his seed . but this is not all one as to be the very same for substance . to be the very same for substance , is an expression that is scarce capable of good sense ; neither baptism nor circumcision in proper acception being substances , or having substance , except as the subject of them , as all accidents have . as substance is put for essence , so it cannot be said they are the same for substance , sith cutting is one thing , washing another ; and other paedobaptists usually term them different administrations , circum●ision the old , baptism the new . i grant circumcision was the token of the covenant made with abraham and his seed , gen. . but that it was a seal of that covenant in the sense usually meant by paedobaptists , or that any ones circumcision was a seal but abrahams , much less that every ones circumcision was a seal of the covenant of grace to him and his seed is more then i find in scripture , and how often i have proved it false , may be seen in many of my writings , specially the d. part of this review . but that baptism is the seal of that covenant made with abraham and his seed , is not true . for . baptism seals not at all the promise of the land of canaan , gen. . . nor any other of the promises made to the natural seed of abraham . . nor doth it seal the spiritual promises of the comming of christ the calling of the gentiles , as they were made to abraham , and by circumcision assured to be accomplished . for then baptism , as circumcision was , should be a shadow and type of christ to come , and should cease as it did . the evangelical covenant , or the promise o● righ●eousness or eternal life by faith , granted to be in the latent sense comprized in that covenant , i find no where in scripture said to be sealed by circumcision , but rather that circumcision did bind persons to the keeping of the law for righteousness , gal. . , . nor by baptism but by consequent . the scripture rather makes it a seal ( if it must be so called ) of our promise to god , then of gods promise to us . nor is there any thing gal. . . . to prove either of mr. cs. conclusions , that baptism now is the seal of the covenant made to abraham and his seed ; or that it is now in the room of circumcision . for neither is it said that what wee have as abrahams seed , is sealed to us in baptism ; wee are said indeed to put on christ by baptism , but that , whether the putting on be meant of spiritual union , or outward profession it is ascribed to faith , v. ● . and our baptism rather is made our seal to christ , then gods to us : nor is there any thing spoken v. . of any seed of abraham but by faith , & so our baptism cannot seal that covenant which was made to abrahams natural seed , which was the use of circumcision , and therefore that baptism is the seal of that covenant , or in the room of circumcision , is not proved thence . but let 's view what is further said for them or either of them . that our baptism succeeds in the room , place , and use of circumcicision , is the common speech of paedobaptists ; against it , . i argued in my examen , that baptism was a concomitant to circumcision , it was among the jew long afore christ came , and it was by divine appointment , from the baptism of john till christs death , now that which succeeds comes after , is not concurrent . to this mr. m. replied , . by concession , and thence would gather an argument for infant baptism , which is enervated in the d . part of this review , sect . . . saith he , a lord major elect succeeds the old , though the old continue after his election for a time , defence p. . but this is not true , a lord major elect doth not succed till hee bee sworn , in the interim he is no lord major in being , but onely in possibility and probability which may never bee . a successour hath no place while the predecessour is present , jewel . defence of the apol. part . . c. . div . . . i argued that in no good sense can baptism be said to bee in the room and place of circumcision ; for neither in proper acception have either room or place , nor taking room and place for the subjects circumcising and ci●cumcised , baptizing and baptized , is it true ; parents though private persons might circumcise , not so in baptism , women were to be baptized , not so in circumcision . these things are answered by mr. m. either with censures of me , which are but vain , this arg●ing being necessary to clear truth , or by reference to what he had said before , which is also fully refuted in the third part of this review , sect . . i further said , if by room and place be meant the society into which the circumcised and baptised were to be initiated , it is not true . for baptism initiated into the christian , circumcision into the jewish church . to this mr. m. if you mean onely the several administrations , the church of the jewes being christs church under one administration , the christian church the same church of christ under another administration ; you speak truth , but not to the purpose ; my conclusion never said circumcision and baptism do initiate into the same administration of the covenant : but if you mean , that the church of the jews and wee are not one and the same church , you speak pure anabaptism indeed , and contradict the scripture expresly , which every where makes the church of the jewes and the gentiles one and the same church , though under divers administrations . i count it needless to annex any proofs , because i think you dare not de●y it . answ. i do not mean onely the several administrations , if i had so spoken i might have perhaps been judged to speak non-sence , from which i can hardly acquit mr. ms. speeches , that circumcision and baptism do initiate into different administrations of the covenant , and yet they are termed the divers administrations , and the church of jews and gentils by reason of them under divers administrations , which kind of expressions , though frequently used by paedobaptists , yet i can discern little in them but non-sence , or tautologies , or self-contradictings . my meaning was very obvious . that the christian church , properly so called , contradistinct from the jewish visible church is one society , and that baptism enters into the visible church christian , that the visible church jewish contradistinct to the christian is another society , and circumcision entred into it , not into the christian. and these things are so manifest that i thought it needless to bring proofs . who knowes not that circumcised proselytes were in the jewish church visible , and not in the christian , and baptised disciples of christ cast out of the jewish church , who remained among the disciples of christ & in his church ? that the jewish church visible persecuted the christian church visible ? yea this is so apparent that mr. m. both in his sermon p. . speaks to the same purpose ; none might be received into the communion of the church of the jews until they were circumcised ▪ nor in the communion of the church of the christians until they be baptised , our lord himself was circumcised as a professed member of the church of the jews , and when he set up the new christian church , hee would be initiated into it by the sacrament of baptism ; and in his des. p. . i reply that the christian church was not fully set up and compleated with all ordinances of worship , government , officers , till afterwards , is readily granted , but that it was not in fieri in erecting and framing , and that baptism was administred in reference to the christian church , and that by baptism men were initiated into this new administration or best edition of the church , i think no sound divine did ever question ▪ p. . i answer johns baptism and ministry was a praeludium to christ , and was wholly in reference to the christian church , which then began to be moulded ; and though there was not a new distinct church of christianity set up , yet all this was preparing the materials of it , and john did not admit them by baptism as members to the jewish paedagogy , which was then ready to be taken away , but into that new administration which was then in preparing . so that what mr. m. terms in me the speaking of pure anabaptism indeed , is no other then his own , and is so manifest as cannot be denied to be true , nor is at all contradicted by the scripture , which never makes the church christian visible and the jewish to be one and the same , but the church invisible by election and believing of jews and gentils to be one and the same mystical body of christ , ephes. . . now this one thing demonstrates that baptism succeeds not into the place or office of circumcision , sith they had different institutions ; were for churches , as mr. m. speaks , under divers administrations , whereof the one was national gathered by natural descent , or proselytism , the other onely by the preaching of the gospel and faith . as s●lmatius in his apparatus to his book of the primacy of the pope p. , . proves the modern bishops neither to succeed into the place of the apostles , nor the first bishops because of their different institution , name , function and ordina●ion , so in like manner i prove that baptism succeeds not in the place of circumcision , because of its different institution , name , office , and state it hath from it . which i● further proved thus . the command of circumcision was different from the command of baptism , the command of circumcision not inferring baptism ; to which mr. m. replies , now this follows that therefore baptism doth not succeed in the room of circumcis●on ● cannot guess ; the lords day succeeds the th day in being gods sabbath , but certainly the institution of it was long after the other . answ this proves that the one is not s●ated on the command of the other , baptism on the command of circumcision , they having d●fferent commands gen. . , &c. matth. . . and consequently no rule for baptizing in the command of circumcision , nor the command of circircumcising infants a virtual command for baptising , the rules of administring each of these being to be taken from their several commands and approved examples of practise , and no other . lastly , that baptism succeeds circumcision in the same use and end , is more untrue . for the uses of circumcision were so far from being the same with the use of baptism , that they are rather contrary . for the uses of circumcision were to engage men to the use of the rest of the jewish ceremonies , to signifie christ to come out of abrahams family , to be a partition wall between jew and gentile . to this mr. m. answers . these all refer to the manner of administration peculiar to the jews ; i have often granted there were some legal uses of circumcision , it obliging to that manner of administration ; and so they were part of the jewish paedagogy , which is wholly vanished , and therein circumcision hath no succession ; but baptism succeeds it as a seal of the same covenant under a better administration , as a set and constant initiating ordinance : onely i wonder that you say circumcision did initiate into the church of the jews , or rather the family of abraham . answ. mr. ms. grant , that the uses were part of the jewish padagogy , and that it is wholly vanished , and therein circumcision hath no succession , doth infer that circumcision and all its uses are vanished , and have no succession : for it had no uses but what did belong to the jewish paedagogy , the initiating was into the jewish church , or rather the family of abraham , ( which speech i used as conceiving that term more comprehensive and more proper , in as much as the family of abraham was it into which circumcision did initiate first afore the people of abrahams house were termed the church of the jews , ) and that covenant which circumcision did signifie and confirm , was peculiar to the jews , although christ were typified by circumcision and righteousness by faith in the latent sense , promised in the covenant , gen. . which yet no more proves baptism to succeed circumcision then to the cloud , sea , manna , water out of the rock , the ark of noah , the passeover , the sacrifices of the law , high priest , washings , &c. and if then this be all the use that baptism succeeds circumcision in , to confirm the covenant so far as it was spiritual , it succeeds as well to all these , and so doth the lords supper to circumcision , & from the comands of those rites , a rule might be drawn to administer baptism by , as well as from circumcision . piscator in his observat . on numb . , . makes baptism to succeed circision and the purifyings to be often iterated , but the truth is it succeeds to neither , christ is instead of all these col. . . and succeeds to them , and to say that baptism succeeds to the use of circumcision , as it signified the gospel promise to abraham , must make it to signifie christ yet to come in the flesh ; for which reason i say still boldly , though it were ( as i think it is not ) against all divines and churches since the apostles time , that to say baptism succeeds in the room and place of circision , is a proposition erroneous and very dangerous . mr. m. saith to this p. . . that hee had confuted before what i say , that the covenant with abraham is not the same with the new-covenant but in part , to which there is a full reply before , in all the sections of the third part of this review , wherein the covenant with abraham is defended to be mixt , to wit , the th , th , th , th . . that the cloud , sea , manna , water of the rock &c. were extraordinary signes , not standing sacraments to bee used in all generations , and yet so far as god hath made them parallel , what hurt is there in saying baptism succeeds them ? to which i answer , . the sacrifices and purifyings were as much standing sacraments , and that in more generations then circumcision and the passeover . . that there is this hurt to mr. ms. cause , that if he grant that baptism succeeds to them as well as circumcision , then a rule may be taken from the use of those in the administration of baptism as well as from circumcision , which is onely proved from the succession of the one to the other , nor is it wildly said by mee , if the confirming or signifying the same covenant , prove baptism to succeed circumcision , it proves the lords supper to succeed it , which according to mr. m. hath the same general state , signification and use , from which alone mr. m. and other pae●obaptists gather the succession of baptism to circumcision , from col. . , . & not from the particular use of initiating , and if so a rule from circumcision to give the lords supper as succeeding it to infants , as well as baptism may be drawn , which were absurd in mr. ms. conceit . i have hitherto shewed the falshood of paedobaptists assertion about baptisms succession to circumcision ; let 's review their proofs of it . mr. m. in his defence p. . saith , from that clear place col. . . . i made it evident , not only that we have the same thing signified by circumcision , while we are buried with christ in baptism , but also that the apostle plainly sees baptism in the same state and makes it of the same use to us as circumcision was to the jews ; christ onely to them and us also is the author of spiritual circumcision . the circumcision of the flesh was the sacrament of it to them ; and now that is abolished , we have baptism to seal the same thing . answ , though i deny not that we have the same thing which was signified by circumcision , while we are buried with christ by baptism ; yet i deny that the apostle plainly or obscurely sets baptism in the same state , or makes it of the same use to us as circumcision was to the jews : nor do i find any thing in the apostles words from whence it may be gathered , that the circumcision of the flesh was the sacrament of it to them , except it be meant onely of christs personal circumcision . for it is plain , that what is said v. . that they were circumcised with the circumcision not made with hands , in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , in or through the circumcision of christ , is expresly applied to christs circumcision , and not to the circumcision of any other person but christ : nor can be , sith of no mans circumcision besides christs is it true , that we are in or by it circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , in putting●off the body of the sins of the flesh : nor are we thus circumcised by christs circumcision as the sacrament , token , or seal of spiritual circumcision , as that onely which sacramentally represented it , or as a seal of the covenant in which it was promised ; but as the effectual pattern , according to which by divine predestination we are to be conformed , rom. . . in whom we are said to be buried , raised , v. . quickned , set in heavenly places , ephes. . concrucified ; gal. . . fellow sufferers , rom. . . phil. . . whence i argue , if our baptism be hence gathered to succeed in the same state and use with circumcision , then it succeeds to christs circumcision , for none other is here meant ; and if so , then each believers baptism is the effectual pattern by vertue of which we have spiritual circumcision . but this is so absurd , that it is not much short of blasphemy , therefore the inference of baptisms succession to circumcision from hence is without any ground , and i did truly say in my examen , that it was an ignis fatuus that hath mis-led men in gathering it hence . nor is it true , that there is a word in the text that intimates , that either our baptism seals any thing to us , except our union and conformity to christ , to which though circumcision of the heart be antecedent , concomitant , or consequent , yet it is not the same ; and therefore the sealing of the same thing by baptism as by circumcision , is not rightly hence inferred . as for what mr. c. saith , p. , . that there is the same spiritual fruit of circumcision and baptism , those onely who are in christ have it , because they have it by the circumcision of christ , and the like of baptism ; that the benefit and fruit of circumcision , which is the circumcision made without hands , they had by being buried and risen with christ in baptism and therefore that they were compleat in christ , is all granted , and confirms my argument against the imagined sucession of ordinary circumcision to ordinary baptism , and of their being the same in substance and use . for hereby it is plain , that what spiritual fruit is ascribed to circumcision , it is not ascribed to ordinary circumcision , no nor to abrahams , ( notwithstanding what mr. c. would deduce from rom. . , . ) but to christs : nor is the spiritual fruit , col. . , . ascribed to baptism , but to the burial and resurrection of christ represented in baptism . as for what mr. c. adds as the apostles meaning , that they were compleat in christ in the ordinances of the gospel , is his own fiction ; for the apostle is so ●ar from saying we are compleat in christ in the ordinances of ●he gospel , that as i prove , exam. p. , . out of the text , the words of beza , aretius , ( whose sayings are by mr. m. in his defence , p . owned as true , ) and mr. ms. own words , that the apostle asserts our compleatness in christ without any outward ordinance either of law or gospel . and this i think mr. c. himself dare not deny . for sith ●he compleatness is in spiritual benefits , mortification , renovation , remission of sins , as mr. c. acknowledgeth , if we have our compleatness in christ by baptism , we have these spiritual benefits by it , and we have them not without it . what mr. m. saith , p. ● . of my abuse of aretius , is answered in my apology sect . ● . p. . aretius his testimonies out of the fathers cited p. . prove nothing concerning the meaning of col. . , . though they shew that some of the ancients conceived of baptisms succession to circumcision as he did . to what i argued in my examen , p. . that by this doctrine , that baptism is in stead of circumcision , the apostles argument for the disanulling the jewish ceremonies , both here and heb. . & . . & . in the epistle to the galatians , ch . . & . and ephes. . is quite evacuated , who still useth this argument to prove the abolition of the ceremonies of the law , because they have their complement in christ , not in some new ordinance added in stead of them ; for if there be need of other ordinances ( besides christ ) in stead of the old , then christ hath not in himself fulness enough to supply the wa●t of them , and this abolition is not because of christs fulness , but other ordinances that come in stead of the abolished ; and though our ordinances may be said to imitate theirs , yet christs onely succeeds them . mr. m thus saith . i answer , it is very true ▪ that whoever should plead ( as mr. c. doth ) that we have any of our compleatness in any outward ordinance would evacuate the apostles argument , but yet they by his own appointment help us to apply this compleatness , they argue not that all our compleatness is not in christ , christ onely succeeds all the jewish ordinances as the body doth the shadow : we plead not , as the papists do , that the jewish sacraments were types of ou●s , they were types onely of christ ; but yet ours succeed them to be like signs of the covenant of grace , and so the apostle doth in this place . to which i reply . . if it be contrary to the apostle to plead that we have any of our compleatness in any ou●ward ordinance , then it is contrary to ●he apostle to make baptism and the lords supper to succeed circumcision and the passeover , sith ●hat onely col. . , &c. is made to succeed them wherein we are compleat without them . . what mr. m. means by applying the compleatness of christ , and how baptism and the lords supper help us to apply this compleatness , i do not readily understand . i conceive it applied no otherwise then by faith , nor they to help any otherwise then by exciting it , which i am sure they do not to infants , and so baptism of infants is no help to them to apply the compleatness of christ. . though baptism and the lords supper argue not that all our compleatness is not in christ , yet the doctrine of mr. m. that baptism is in the same state , and of the same use to us as circumcision was to the jews , that it succeeds into its place , doth so a●gue as i have shewed . . if christ onely succeeds all the jewish ordinances , as the body succeeds the shadow , then christ onely is made col. . , . the successour to circumcision : for there is no other succession there spoken of , as appears by the phrases of compleatness in him as the head , v. . circumcised by the circumcision of christ , v. . buried with him , risen with him , v. . quickned together with him , v. . dead with him from the rudiments of the world , v. . so as that by holding him as the head being knit together the whole body increaseth with the increase of god , v. . and chiefly that which is said v. . which are a shadow of things to come , but the body is of christ. . if the jewish sacraments were not types of ours , then the reason of their ceasing from the succession of ours is taken away , for that rests onely on this , that they were types , and ours the truth . . if ours succeed onely in that they are like signs of the covenant of grace , then they succeed all the sacrifices , washings , annointings of the law as well as these : we may conclude succession of baptism to noahs ark , &c. but in the administration of an ordinance we are not to be ruled by bare analogy framed by our selves or delivered by the spirit of god , but by the institution of god. to this mr. m. saith , defence , p. . i answer , but when those analogies framed by the spirit of god , are agreeable to the use and end of gods institution , we are to be ruled by them ; and the apostle shews that 's our case here . answ. . if this were true , then to tie baptism to the eighth day , to be of all in the family , &c. should according to mr. ms. s●ppositions be right . . there 's not a word in the apostle col . to shew that ours succeed the jewish sacraments to be like signs of the covenant of grace . yea , i urged that the apostle rather resembles burial to circumcision then baptism , and makes the analogy between circumcision and christs burial , and cited the words of chrysostome and theophilact on the place to that purpose , exam p. . to this mr. m. where i● circumcision compared to burial , and wherein i pray you lies the analogy between them ? i reply , . i said not circumcision is compared to burial , but that col. . , . burial rather resembles circumcision then bap●ism , and the analogy is between them . which is true , sith buried with him , v. . answers to circumcised by his circumcision , v. . and the analogy is , that as the one so the other is the effectual pattern of our mortification ; and not between our burial and baptism , as mr. m. and to this are the words cited by me apposite . nor are the words of chrysostome , that we put off sins in baptism , for mr. ms. purpose , to prove analogy conceived by the apostle between the jewish common circumcision , or our burial and our baptism . . i said baptism is named with faith , col. . . as the means whereby we have communion with christ , and are compleat in him . exam. p. . to this mr , m. but is not this the same sense with mine ? but your syllogism or mighty consequence i deny , baptism is named because it is one of the means of christians being exempted from the schoolmaster , and come to be ingraffed into christ , and to be compleat in him , therefore it doth not succeed in the room and place of circumcision , nay rather therefore it doth . to this is replied in my apology , sect . . p. . that mr. m. perverts my words , my arguing being no other then this , baptism is alledged as one of the means whereby we come to be compleat in christ , ( which mr. m. denies not , but avows as his sense , ) therefore there was another reason besides the succession of it into the place of circumcision , why the apostle there mentions it , which mr. m. denied . and this consequence ( however mr. m. in his flout term it ) is good , except it were true , that every means whereby we are compleat in christ succeeds circumcision , the contrary whereof is confessed by mr. m. in acknowledging faith to be one of the means whereby we are compleat in christ , col. . . which yet succeeds not circumcision , according to him . mr. ms. censure of my speech , that the misunderstanding col. . , . was an ignis fatuus , as arrogant , is shewed in my apology , sect . . p. . to be injurious : and what he saith in his defence , p. . of my position , that circumcision was not a token of the covenant to the jews children , is another injury , in that he leaves out the words [ in sone sense ] which was set down a little before in my appendix , p. . which being added , there is nothing in them contrary to the text , gen. . but enough thence to prove my speech true . what mr. c. urgeth p. , from cor. . , . of the lords supper succeeding the passeover , that the apostle could not have expressed by such phrases taken from the passeover the celebrating the lords supper , had not the passeover and the supper been the same for substance , is not right . for . that by keeping the feast is meant eating the lords supper , is not proved ; and beza , diodati , the new annot. with others , paraphrase the words thus , let us lead our life . . our obedience , gifts , doing good , are termed sacrifices , yet these phrases prove not them to be the same in substance in mr. cs. sense . . christ is expresly in the text cor . . termed our passeover , therefore the text makes the sacrifice of christ to suc●eed the passeover ; not the lords supper . but mr. drew , p. ● ▪ thinks to prove the succession of baptism to circumcision , because as he saith in my exercit. p. . &c. i readily grant that baptism is an ordinance set up by the appointment of christ to serve for the same spiritual ends that circumcision did . to which i say , that all i grant there , is , that circumcision and baptism signified and confirmed the promise of the gospel , but i added , according to different forms and function , and i ascribed no more to circumcision then to the paschal lamb , the rain of mannah , &c. but this is not the same with that which mr. drew injuriously imposeth on me . yet if it were , it would not prove baptisms succession to circumcision , as is before shewed , and if it did it would as well prove its succession to the passeover , manna , the water out of the rock , &c. which hee will not assert i think . the rest which hee saith , about col. . , . is the same with what others say , and hath been answered in my examen part . . sect . . in my appendix , and in this section and in other parts of this review . as for mr. cotton , who is one of those to whose writing mr. drew refers us for proof of baptisms succession to circumcision , from col. . , , . his conceit is grounded upon this mistake in hi● book of baptism p. . that the apostle pleadeth our compleatness in christ , notwithstanding our want of circumcision , in that wee en●oy the like fulness of benefit in our baptism as the jews did in their circumcision , which hath been often shewed to bee false . for there is no mention of a benefit to the jews , but to the colossians , and this benefit was not bare outward circumcision , or any outward church priviledge , but the inward circumcision in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , and this not by the jews circumcision , but christs circumcision in his own person , nor is it true that the fulness of benefit there is ascribed to ordinary baptism , nor can bee rightly so conceived . and what mr. cotton saith in the same place against those who say that baptism being granted to succeed circumcision , yet it follows not infants must bee baptized , that succession is the substitution of later things for former things in the same sub●ect , if the subject be changed , so far as there is a change of the subject there is no succession , and therefore if infants be not baptized as they were circumcised , baptism succeeds not circumcision , is false and against himself . . false , for we know though there were a law made that after infant kings al should be adult , and after women queens , all should be male kings , yet they should be true successors , as king james to queen elizabeth , henry the th to edward the th or henry the th . . against himself , for thereby is proved baptism doth not succeed circumcision , sith there is a change in the subject , women being baptized , who were not circumcised , and parents or masters of families being to circumcise , but preachers of the gospel onely to baptize . as for what dr. homes ( to whom mr. drew also refers ) in his annimadvers . on my exercit. p. , . brings to prove baptisms succession to circumcision , it 's upon alike mistakes . for . it is not true that the apostles scope col. . . in mentioning baptism , is to answer the objection dr. homes imagins , and to shew that we are as compleat as the jews , because christ hath appointed another sign , to wit baptism , in stead of the jews circumcision . . nor doth the apostle affirm or intimate , that if we have not baptism in the room of circumcision to us believers and our infants , we are not so compleat as the jews , by christ. . nor is it true that the apostle doth call off the colossians from circumcision by the consideration of their baptism as in the room of circumcision . . nor doth the apostle make such analogy between baptism and circumcision as dr. homes saith he doth . . nor if hee did , would this prove such a succession of baptism to circumcision as paedobaptists would have , that the command of infant circumcision must be a command for infant baptism . mr. thomas fullers argumentation for the succession of baptism to circumcision in all the essentials of it , as he speaks in his infants advocate ▪ ch . . is alike vain . for there is no inconvenience that i know , to say no ordinance doth succeed circumcision ; his talk of sacraments being pillars of the church , is but phrasifying instead of disputing , nor do i know how it can bee true . nor do i know , that all or any graces evangelical are conferred in baptism or were in circumcision of the jewes , much less that the conferring of such grace , is essential to either of them ; nor is it true , that col. . , . christians are said by baptism to bee spiritually circumcised ; and by the same proportion the believing jews may bee said by circumcision to bee spiritually baptized : for it is not by baptism but before it , that regularly persons are spiritually circumcised , nor were the believing jewes by circumcision to be spiritually baptized but before it ; nor is there any such affinity , much less essential sameness between them , as that a command about the one should bee a command to us about the other . nor do i finde any thing in that author which needs further answer , hee having added nothing to the cause , but some peculiar words and expressions without any strength . what mr. cobbet hath about this point just. vindic part . . c. . sect . , , . i shall further examine . sect. . he sets down eight propositions , which if they were all granted , yet they do not prove that point , which is in question , that an a●gument from analogy between meer positive ceremonies , ri●es or sacraments is of validity , so as that it may be concluded thus ; so it was in a ceremony of the old testament , therefore it must be so in the new , without any other precept or example therein : concerning the insufficiency thereof , i have disputed so largely in the d . part of this review sect . , . as that i need to say no more here . nor doth any thing mr. c. brings concerning the fulness of the scripture , christ or the apostles arguing , prove such kind of arguing good in meer positive rites , however matters of faith and manners are determined and proved by them from the old testament . nor should it bee granted ( as it is not ) that there is the same main ground of circumcision and baptism , yet would it follow the rule of the one is a rule about the other , without the like institution . yet what mr. c. hath set down as the main ground that god would once have his covenant of grace ( which he means p . of the very covenant of saving grace , not of any meer outward covenant ) to be to the whole church and church seed ; and the rest of his hypotheses , pag. . are so fully shewed to bee mistakes in this review , that i think it needless actum agere . and for the tenth section in which he makes a tedious paraphrase , and dictates many things without proof , concerning col. . , , . they proceed upon the mistakes above shewed , as if the apostle answered this objection , if gentile believers have not an initiatory seal for them and their children they should not bee so compleat as the jewes in outward ordinances , and that the apostle answers that they have baptism in stead of circumcision . he● himself more truly saith , pag. . that baptism is named col. . . as an outward mean whereby bee inchurched gentiles especially , come ordinarily to have communion with christ , and to be compleat in him , and therefore not in outward ordinances ; nor by baptism can it bee said wee are compleat in outward ordinances , sith himself makes it onely the initiatory seal , but compleatness is not in the enjoyment of the initiatory onely , but of all ordinances . as for what hee saith section eleven , for the succession of baptism to circumcision , that it is sufficient to prove it that they agree in their common author , sacramental nature , and end ( which yet is false ▪ ) the answer is good that these things prove it not , sith there are the same or more parities of baptism and the passeover , and more disparities between baptism and circumcision , which are sufficient to shew that the command concerning the one is not a command concerning the other . for i● the command bind to baptize infants , it binds onely to baptize males at eight dayes old , and not afore ; nor is it any answer to say , the command of circumcision binds in the substantials of it though not in the circumstantials ; ●or first , if the command bind it binds in every point as well as in one . . the state of infancy is as much a circumstance as the eighth day . . in the command of circumcision , i know not any thing which may bee termed substantial , unless hee mean the act of cutting off the fore-skin of the flesh , which hee will not have us tied ●o , for then wee must not baptize our infants but circumcise them . as for what hee speaks of the command to seal with an initiatory seal of the covenant indefinite believers and their children , it is a meer figment , as hath been before shewed . there is nothing else that i conceive needfull to be added in this place , i go on to finish the rest . sect . lxxxii . notwithstanding mr. cs. allegations of acts . , . cor. . . rom. , ●● mark. . . acts . . matth. . . the n. t. appear● to be silent about mr. cs. additional promise , and infants baptism . having more largely noted the unproved dictates and mistakes of mr. carter hitherto . i shall be briefer in the rest ●o what he saith pag. , , , . there needs no more to bee said but this , that the blessing upon posterity which mr. c imagines , m●ght have been signified , though adult persons onely had been circumcised , we have plain scriptures which warrant us to alter circumcision wholly and abolish i● , besides which we know no other command gen● ● ▪ the texts acts . . gal. . do as plainly shew that baptism is to be of none but believers , and that but adul● persons are to 〈◊〉 bap●ized , ●s that women are to be baptized , i● circumcision were a priv●ledge acts . . we have abundant warrant to take it away ; nor doth the text rom . hinder it , which is not meant of outward priviledges , which are common to elect and reprobate ( as the priviledge of circumcision was ) but of saving grace , to wit election and effectual calling , and therefore is palpably abused by mr. c. to prove that god takes not away the outward priviledge from his people now , which was by circumcision , we justly require a precept or example in the n. t to warrant infant baptism , no command of a meer positive right of the old testament , being a rule to us about a meer positive right of the new , as is fully proved by me in the d . part of this review , sect. , . what mr. c. saith pag. , , , , . that the n. t. is not altogether silent in this matter , because of peters words , acts . , . is false . for neither is there a word acts . , . of mr. cs. imagined additional promise of making every believer a blessing , so as to cast ordinarily elect children on elect parents , nor that the application of the initial seal is to signifie this promise , nor that the application of it to infants is of the substance of this covenant nor that the command gen. . . is yet a command that lieth upon abrahams spiritual seed now in the new testament , nor that baptism is now in the room of circumcision , and is the very same in substance for us , nor if mr. cs. exposi●ion were granted , would any of these follow , but the contrary . for first , if the promise bee the same wi●h that vers . . out of joel , yet sure it is not the same with mr. cs. additional promise , the promise of receiving the holy ghost being not all one with this , that the parent believing shall bee a blessing to his posterity as mr. c. fancies , the promise of receiving the holy ghost being of a thing terminated on the receiver , but mr. cs. additional promise of a thing convayed to posterity , the promise of receiving the holy ghost beeing as well , if not chiefly to the children , acts. . , . but the additional promise of mr. c. is onely to the parent . . were the promises the same , yet this would not serve mr. cs. turn , but bee against him . for if the promise acts . . be the same with that vers . , . then it is a promise to children of dreaming dreames , seeing visions , and prophesying , but this cannot be meant of infant children , it neither was so fulfilled in the apostles days , nor in any after time , it would be a prodig● to hear an infant prophesie , much less is it true of the ordinary gifts of the spirit , v. . the limitation also is against him , for if it be true which he saith p. . that peter maketh the gentiles case parallel with the jews , and saith that the same promise did also belong to them yet with the same limitation , namely , to so many of them onely as the lord our god shall call , implying that it is an effectual call to faith and repentance , that gave to any such a priviledge , either jew or gentile , and p. . the words of the apostle cannot be meant , that the promise did belong to them and their children onely as jews , abrahams natural seed , but as believers , and upon their conversion ( which i conceive true ) then it is false that it belongs to infants as the natural seed of their parents , though believers , and therefore the promise act. . . is not mr. cs. additional promise , which is of believing parents being a blessing to posterity , nor is the promise or imagined priviledge consequent thereupon , belonging to infants until they repent and believe . . that which hee saith p. . that act. . . is an invitation to repenting and believing jews to be baptized they and their children , is so far from being for his purpose , that it is manifestly against it . for if the invitation be of every one to repent first , and then every of them so repenting to be baptized , then it is not an invitation to infants to be baptized , nor of parents to baptize them . yea , this is so apparent in the text that the very words are directed expresly to those persons who were pricked in their hearts , and said men and brethren what shall we do , that they should be every of them baptized , v. . without so much as mentioning their children in the invitation . nor doth any thing after done by them , v. . &c. shew that they understood that they were directed by peter to cause their children , whether infant or adult , to be baptized upon their repentance and believing onely . yea , if as mr. c. saith , john baptist had cleared that point , matth. . , . that to the jews as abrahams seed natural baptism did not belong , it belongs not now to a believers seed . but the truth is , mr. cs. exposition is in many things false or uncertain . it is uncertain whether the promise acts . . be the same with that which is mentioned v. , . or that v. . of which i have spoken enough before . it is false that the promise acts . , . can be meant of ordinary gifts . for the apostle saith v. . that what was spoken by the prophet was the thing they then saw performed , which was speaking with tongues v. , . the great things of god , which was extraordinary ; and if the promise v. , . had included ordinary gifts , it had been impertinently alledged to shew the fulfilling of it then in those miraculous gifts . nor doth mr. c. prove it to be so meant . for . though the last days in scripture signifie all that space of time from the comming of christ in the flesh to the end of the world , tim. . . tim. . . heb. . . & . . yet it follows not the promise is yet in fulfilling , it is sufficient to verifie the prophecy that it hath been fulfilled in any part of the last days . . nor is there any thing v. . to prove the prophesying there to be a distinct thing from the prophesying , v. . or prophesying in either to be an ordinary gift , or common to all gods servants . nor do rev. . . compared rev. . . or rev. . . prove that every believer hath the spirit of prophecy . for johns suffering for the testimony of jesus may be understood , yea being distinct from the word of god rev. . . seems to be meant of his giving testimony of jesus as an apostle or prophet extraordinary ; and the having the testimony of jesus , rev. . . being distinct from keeping the commandments of god , imports the testimony there meant to be of that which was testified by extraordinary revelation , against which the dragon warred , and a blessing is to the observers , rev. . and that rev. . . is meant of those who had extraordinary revelation , is manifest , in that rev. . . where the same thing is expressed , and there what is rev. . . thy brethren which have the testimony of jesus , is , thy brethren the prophets , and the prophets are distinct from them that keep the words of that book . besides , if every believer had the spirit of prophecy , then every believer should be a prophet , and should be set by god in the church next after apostles , afore teachers ; which doth expresly gainsay the apostle , cor. . , . and fully proves the prophesying mentioned cor. . to be no ordinary gift , which every believer hath . nor doth it follow , the testimony of jesus is the spirit of prophesie , therefore every testimony of jesus is the spirit of prophesying , the speech being indefinite , not universal ; and the words being the speech of the angel , shewing wherein he was fellow-servant to john , plainly intimate he meant it of the special testimony of jesus which he was fellow servant to john in , as the title of the book shews , rev. . . the revelation of jesus christ which god gave to him to shew to his servants what things must shortly be , and sending signified them by his angel to his servant john. i omit what piscator conceives in his scholie on the place , that the words are to be read in an inverted order thus , the spirit of prophesie is the testimony of jesus , that is , which is received from him . nor is it true , that the promise ioh. . . is to all believers , however preachers do so often misapply it , but to the apostles . and it may be doubted , whether the words ioh . , . be meant of all believers , or of those that were strong or we●l instructed by john as his li●tle children , v. . and if it be meant of all believers , yet it must be understood with limitation of all things necessary to salvation , or of all things needfull to withstand the seducers he mentions , not a word ●hat mentions their prophesying . nor doth joh. . . prove every believer a prophet ; nor may it be gathered from thes. . , . that such preaching , which we must suppose may bring us something that is not good , is called prophesying , but that something may be termed prophesying which is not ; and therefore the spirits are to be tried whether they be of god , for many false pro●hets are gone out into the world , as john speaks , epist. . . nor is it true , that peter exhorts the jews , act. . . to repent , that is , to go on as they had begun . for though they had some horrour of conscience , v. . yet not repentance , unto which peter exhorts , v. . nor doth any word used by peter intimate that they had begun to repent . and what mr. c. adds to the clause to as many as the lord our ●od shall call , not onely to them , but also to their children , is too bold dealing with the scripture , there being not a word in the text which implieth that addition , and therefore is not justified by his allegations of psal. . . prov. . . what other arguments for mr. cs. purpose have been urged from act. . , . have been largely answered already . i go on . mr. c. adds , p. , , , , , , , , , . a large discourse ▪ in whi●h . there is p. . a confession which doth invincibly prove infant baptism to be will worship , and his speech false which he used p. ● . that the new testam●nt is not altogether silent in this matter ; and it is this . whoever shall confine himself onely to the n. t. to find out the law of gods worship and service , he shall never find it , not onely as to infant baptism but also to all other ordinances whatsoever for if infant baptism be not to be found in the n. t. then the n. ● . is altogether silent about that matter : and if it be not there , then it is will worship , there being no law about a meer positive rite or ceremony in force to us christian gentiles now , which was giv●n to the jews in the old testament , as i have proved , exam. par . . sect . . pag. , . review , par . . sect . , . . there is in the same p. . a false and dangerous speech , that christ spake so little in his n. t. concerning the law which is the rule which he hath set for his service of his house ; namely , because he could look upon that , for the greatest part , to be done already , to wit , in the old testament ▪ which if true , then the laws about the ceremonies of the jews are our rule , we are still under the yoke of bondage , popish , prelatical ceremonies are still justifiable , a bishop or archbishop above presbyters and bishops , appeal to synods , their power to decide controversies , to excommunicate , a national church constitution , are still to be retained , for these , or that which was proportionable to these , was according to the rule of gods house then . nor is there a word in any of the scriptures which mr. c. alledgeth , for this his purpose . not luke . . the meaning whereof is not , as mr. c. fancies , that in the times before john was the season to instruct men in the law , since in the gospel ; but as it is mat. . . all the prophets and the law until john prophesied , that is , foretold of christs comming as future ; but the kingdome of god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . from then is evangelized , or told as good tidings already begu● to be , a● diodati annot . on mat. . . johns prerogative above the precedent prophets is , that they have onely foretold and described things to come ▪ but he hath delivered the present salvation , and in him is begun the evangelical ministery , and the legal and figurative ministery is ceased . yet if mr. cs. exposition were allowed , it prov●s not that in the law or old testament the rule about the service or meer positive worship of god in the n. t. is set , but rather the contrary ; for if that were the season then for it , and now is the season for another thing , it follows , that it is unseasonable to take a rule for gods hou●e in meer positive worship from the old testament . the alledging psal. . . by mat. . , , . proves not that a rule for rituals is to be fe●cht from the old testament , although it may be usefull for to prove doctrines about the gospel , gods providence , moral duties , &c. though it be granted which mr. c. concludes pag. . the general nature of the law to bee one and the same to the people of god under both testaments , ( which is easily yeilded sith the general nature is invariable , and the same to all for ever ) yet it followes not that the laws about ●eremonies are the same to the people of god under both testaments , if so , we are still under the yoke of circumcision and the legal rites , and under the law. and indeed mr. c. hath in this thing vented many false and dangerous speeches , that to us in christ the law hath been as it were incorporated with the gospel , as thereby become part of the covenat of grace the law given by 〈◊〉 is called the testa●ent of christ , by●hrist ●hrist himself ▪ that the old testament , this the new , and both confirmed by his bloud ; that in the type by the bloud of bulls and goat● th●● in the answer type by his own bloud . and yet he sa●th , the apostle r●m . ● applieth deut. ● , to the gospel in opposition to the law , as in it self considered without the gospel , or as a covenant of works ; which words are contrary to his former . for if the gospel be opposed to the law by the apostle , as it is in it self considered is without the gospel , is a covenant of works , then the law is not incorporated with the gospel , or thereby become part of the covenant of grace , nor is the law given by moses called the testament of christ , nor confirmed by his bloud , but the bloud of bulls and goats , ill termed christs bloud , being opposed heb. . . in like manner it is a dangerous assertion which he hath pag. . in the covenant of workes the law was , do this and live ; but in the covenant of grace it is , do this in the strength of christ and live : which if right , we live , that is , are justified ( for so his words following explain it ) by the doing the works of the law in the strength of christ ; which ( if i do understand it ) is the very doctrine of bellarmine , tom. . de justific . l. . c. . and other papists , saying the apostle excludes not works done after grace by faith from justification , but afore faith : which protestant divines commonly refute , as ●areus in his castigations , ames in his bellarm. enerv . chamier , tom. . paustr. lib. . c. . abbots defence of perkins , p. . rivet . sum contr ▪ tract . . qu. . pemble vind . fidei , sect . . c. . sect . . c. , . alledging the apostles words concerning abraham , who had not to glory before god , nor was justified by works , rom. . , , &c. and me thinks mr. carters next words contradict his former , when he saith , our state and condition as subjects of his kingdome , dependeth not upon our keeping the law but upon free grace in christ by faith . but of this by the way . that which he alledgeth about the term gods house , tim. . . cor. . . and separate , act. . . cor. . . that we cannot understand them without the old testament , though it were true , yet proves no more but this , that in explaining the meaning of words allusive to things there described , the old testament is necessary ; but not that which is to be proved , that in observing the rites of the n. t. we are to fetch rules and commands by way of analogy from the ritual commands of the old . mr. c. adds , p , , , , , , , , , , , , . something more about the texts cor. . . rom. . . mar. . . acts . . mat. . . which having been so largely handled in the former parts of this review , i need onely to refer the reader thither . yet i add , it is but said without any proof , that cor. . . that children are termed holy , because they come under the word of blessing from god , in as much as that word was confirmed not onely unto abraham , but also to all believers , gen. . , . that which god blesseth he sanctifieth , and separateth from that which is common or unclean . for . there 's not a word brought to shew that ever any child is in scripture termed holy by reason of such an indefinite promise to believing parents . . nor that the scope , analysis , allusion in the text ▪ leads to such an exposition . . nor doth it follow , that because god blessed and sanctified the sabbath day therefore what god blesseth he sanctifieth : god blessed noah and his sons , gen. . . yet all of them were not sanctified ; yea , many texts of scripture apply blessings to unsanctified persons , psal. . . ierem. . . much less is it true , that who is termed holy or sanctified is blessed , the unbeliever is in the text sanctified as the children holy , yet not blessed . . that this exposition is farre from the apostles scope and arguing , is so largely demonstrated in the first part of this review and elsewhere , that i judge it surperfluous to refute further these unprooved dictates heere . i deny not that the jews rom. . . are termed natural branches by birth according to the covenant of god with abraham , the gentiles the wild olive by nature as neglected by god , yet it is not true that ever the gentiles ingraffed are made natural branches , sith they never descend from abraham the root by natural generation , and though it bee true they enjoy saving graces which the believing jews had , called v. . the fatness of the olive tree , yet it is not true that the gentile believers children enjoy the outward priviledges the jews had by birth , or are any of them ingraffed and partakers of the olive tree but the elect and believers , or that they are to be accounted holy by us , till god hath purified their hearts by faith , acts. . . and as we cannot say certainly any infant of a believer is inherently holy , so neither can we say they are any of them holy as separated to god and to bee received into church relation , till they profess the faith , such promise and purpose of election as mr. c. imagins being no where to be found , and if it were it is not sufficient to make them relatively holy in church relation , without profession of faith by each person so accounted , there being no rule whereby we are to baptize any but disciples , upon their own profession so judged , no not though god had made such a covenant to each believer as mr. c. imagins : but we are to baptize persons who profess the faith , though wee know not them to be inherently holy , or in the covenant of grace . mr. cs. other reason pag. . why such children are by the apostle called holy , because they are not onely within the covenant of abraham , but also are appointed of god to be a subject recipient of the seal of that covenant ▪ is another unproved dictate and refuted by the same reasons by which the former is refelled . what mr. c. urgeth against my sense of holy that is legitimate , cor. . . that it had been but affirming the thing , is shewed to be false in the first part of this review sect . . and it is false which he imagins that the apostle thus reasoned , that after my exposition except one of the married couple be believer their children are bastards , or that he ●scribed the sanctification to the faith of the believer , which and what else hee saith about the scruple from ezra . . and . . is so fully answered in the first part of this review sect . , &c. to the end of the book , that mee thinks mr. c. should afore hee had printed his sermons have viewed them , and not thus have printed these stale objections often answered , without shewing the insufficiency of the answers , if hee meant candidly , as one that endeavoured to cl●er the truth . but mr. c. takes notice of this objection against the basis of his building , that upon this account not onely children of believers , but also nations must be reputed holy , because the promise is that believers shall bee blessings also unto nations ; to this he answers , the case is not the same , for children are immediately under this word of blessing in the family relation , as the people of god in the church are immediately under that blessing , which the lord commandeth out of sion . but as for nations , they are under it in a remote capacity by means of what the saints are in their families and in the church . therefore although such as are of the church , and the children also of such families are holy , yet it followeth not that therefore the nation should be holy . ref. i reply , the objection in form stands thus ; they which come under the word of blessing from god , in as much as that word was confirmed not onely unto abraham , but also to all believers , gen. . , . & . , . must be reputed holy . this is the effect of mr. cs. words p. ● . and the main ground of all his discourse for infant baptism , i subsume . but nations , yea all nations come under the word of b●essing from god , in as much as that word was not onely confirmed unto abraham , but also to all believers , gen. . , . & . , . and if the word families bee taken ( as mr. c. seems to take it ) for housholds , and all housholds , then the same objection is concerning , all in housholds , servants , wives as well as children , they come under the ble●●ing according to mr. cs. exposition ; ergo , according to mr. cs. arguing and exposition , nations , yea all nations , families , housholds , all in them are holy and to be baptized , which being absurd his opinion is also absurd . the minor is in the texts , and gal. . . as mr. c. expounds them , ergo , the conclusion followes from his own principles . his answer is neither true nor pertinent . not true , for children are not immediately under this word of blessing in the family relation , nor the people of god in the church ( meaning the visible ) are immediately under that blessing , but onely believers in the families or church , as the apostle determines , gal. . , . nor according to mr ▪ cs. exposition are the children more immediately under the word of blessing as confirmed to abraham , then the wife , servants , sojourners , neighbours . for the children are not under the blessing but as the children of believers , and so according to his own exposition pag. . gods choise shall be by families and nations , so that he will ordinarily cast the lot of the saints in neighbourhoods and places together , and if so the blessing or choise is as immediately promised to nations , neighbourhoods , others in the same house as to children , nor are the nations in a more remote capacitie then the saints in the families and in the church . nor is the answer pertinent if it were true : for the major proposition , which is his own , is not limited to them that come under the word of blessing immediately in his sense , for then hee should exclude nations , neighbourhood● , families , contrary to the text , which mentions the blessing of all kinreds and nations , and not onely the children , and to his own exposition which extends it to neighbourhoods and places together . mr. c. not trusting to this , saith ; to this i add , that children are in the power of parents and at their disposing ; and so as when they , in their sanctification , or being made holy , give up themselves to god by faith , and obedience to his ordinances , their children are therein vertually given up also , in as much as a believer in some respect giveth up to god together with himself all in his power . now this cannot be said of any nation whatsoever . answ. but . the parents giving up all to god is not that which makes children to be holy neither according to truth , for they are made holy by gods act whither of covenant or other act of consecration or separation to himself , not by mans act of giving up by vow or otherwise to god , yea if the act of mans giving up all in his power to god , makes children holy , it makes servants , cattle holy to god , nor according to mr. c. himself , who ascribes it to gods election , and word of blessing . if this be the way of making holy , by giving up all at his disposing to god , then a believer at his first conversion makes holy to god himself , for he giveth himself to god , makes holy to god persons not yet bego●ten , and so visible churchmembers according to mr. b. subjects recipient of the seal of the covenant , according to mr. c. pag. . yea by this reason a believers horse may bee said to bee holy to to god , and baptizable . . this addition takes away his former answer . for if the giving up all to god in his power at his disposing by the believer make them holy , children are no more immediately holy then servants , wife , &c. all being together given up to god in one act whether vertually or formally . . if a believers giving up to god together with himself all in his power , and at his disposing make them holy , then a believing ●●ing and state do make the whole nation holy who are their subjects and so the objection stands good , that the whole nation is according to mr. cs. conceit to be reputed holy but mr. c. saith , it will be objected yet further , that the jews are said to be holy , even the whole people of the jews , who now are unbelievers , rom. . . yet have they no right to baptism ; and therefore that this holiness of the children , cor. . . be it from their interest in the covenant of god with abraham , is no argument for infant baptism , because the unbelieving jews also are supposed by us to be holy upon the same account , and holiness to be taken in the same sence in both places . answ. this objection is mine in my exercit. sect . . but otherwise then mr. c. here sets it down . for it is not there brought as an objection by it self , but as a reason of my denial of this proposition universally understood , they who are holy with covenant holiness may be baptized . . i did not say the whole people of the jews , who now are unbelievers , but the elect of the israelites no● yet called are holy in respect of the covenant , and are not yet therefore to be baptised . yet neither to the objection as mine , nor as framed by himself , doth mr. c. give a sufficien● answer . for he grants the two places cor. . . rom. . . are parallel , and in that sense they have been both above alledged to prove that branch of gods covenant with abraham concerning a blessing upon posterity , in order to the multiplying of believers . and yet it is as true , that there is a great difference between them . now this grant is enough to prove that persons or people may be federally holy , and yet not baptizable , which is the objection . nor doth the difference which he imagines ( if there be such a difference ) in the two places , any thing at all infringe it . for whether federal holiness in one place bee ascribed to a whole people in respect of a part or to particular persons , the connexion between federal holiness and baptizability , is shewed to be null ; and the major denied not true universally understood , and so the objection is confirmed by this grant , not infringed . yea whereas mr. c. pretends the difference to bee great between the places , the very thing bee assignes makes no difference . he saith , the apostle saith expresly cor. . . of such particular persons that they are holy , but of rom. . . the scope of the apostle is to set forth the kind or sort of people , namely jewes , not the particular persons that should bee called . but herein hee opposeth himself in the words next before , where hee thus makes the apostle to intend both ; thus wee are to understand that of the apostle rom. . when hee saith , of the people of the jewes that they are holy , namely , what properly and peculiarly belongeth to a part , even to those of them who either then were , or afterwards should bee converted , bee ascribeth to the whole , and in respect of that part hee calleth the whole body of that people holy . now if hee call a part holy which should bee called , he sets forth the particular persons . and cor. . . sets out the kinde or sort of children as well as the particular persons , whether after mr. cs. opinion , the children of believers , or after mine , the children of married persons . and that which he argues makes against him for me . for if that which is ascribed to the whole people belongeth by a synecdoche to a part , even those who are or shall be converted , then what is said either gen . , . or . , . or rom. . , , . of families , nations , branches , lump , may be understood synecdochically of a part of families , nations or people , and those believers as paul gal. . , . determines as converts as mr. c. and so not children of believers , much less infants necessarily included in the families , nations , branches ingraffed , lump that is holy , and consequently all mr. cs. arguing , made void by his own concession , which hitherto he hath framed from abrahams covenant to prove infant baptism . and what he argues , that the lump which is termed holy rom. . . and the whole people termed beloved v. . is to bee understood of the better part , and of those that were then unborn , and of such a lump as should have a being successively , and part after part , and so cannot bee actually holy then when the apostle spake , it doth all exactly agree with my explication of the ingraffing of the branches in my apol. sect . . in the first part of this review sect . , , &c. and doth well serve to answer the arguments for the ingraffing parent and child into the visible church christian against the sense i give for the ingraffing into the invisible church , by giving of faith according to election . nor did i ever say , the apostles meaning rom. . . was that th●se particular persons of the jews who pers●st ●n unbelief , or that the whole people of the jews are now in the times of the new testament holy in any sense whatever , but grant they are broken off from the holy root , vers . . are cast●away , vers . . are enemies , and so unclean and prophane , and therefore not holy , v. . yet this meant , but of some , v. . a part , v. . and all these things do well accord together , and with the perseverance of saints asserted against arminians , sith the people of the jews are not by me asserted to be broken off from the invisible church of elect and true believers in respect of what particular persons broken off were in their own persons , but in respect of what the particular persons were in a former age of the same nation or people . mr. c. p . imagines that christ saith , of little children is the kingdome of god , because of his sained additional promise : but he brings not a word to prove it , nor doth the text yeeld any proof that they were believers children ; and i have proved the kingdome of god is meant of that of glory . review , par . . sect . . and for his conceit , that christ bid suffer them to come to him because of the additional promise of mr. c. it is without proof , and not agreeable to mr. cs. own concei● . for if christ would intimate , that this is part of the gospel of the kingdome , that believers should be blessings to their children , namely , so as they should be means of their conversion , he should rather have directed the apostles to suffer them to be brought to their parents to be educ●ted , then to himself to lay hands on them . and christs anger against his disciples argues no such intimation , nor his saying that of them is the kingdome of god , proves their right to baptism as doth the receiving the holy ghost , act. . . for that shewed cornelius actually a believer , so did not christs speech of the little children , which expressed not their present but future estate , as is proved , review , par . . sect . . nor is there a word brought by mr. c. to prove that christs command was given to his disciples for a perpetual obligation to the disciples of christ , in all ages then to come , to bring infants to christ in an external way , and therefore by baptism . for though it were recorded after his ascension , yet it follows not it was recorded to learn this , to have a way of bringing infants to christ by baptism , there being something else to be learned by it , and it is rather a sure proof that christ did not teach that by his command , sith neither then nor after do we find the apostles did baptize an infant ; and the phrase of comming to him cannot import baptism , sith he did not baptize , joh. . , . and if any standing rule were intended by christs command , it should be rather laying on hands and praying for infants , then baptizing them . though it be granted , that to whom christ is a king he is also a prophet , yet it follows not , that infants being such as of whom is christs kingdome , they are his disciples as meant mat. . . much less that they are made disciples , when their parents are converted , because they are then in the way of the spirits teaching , christ being a prophet to other then disciples meant mat. . . nor is there the least hint . act. . . of infants being disciples , and the notion of disciples by the parents conversion , or by being in the way of the spirits teaching ( which yet is not shewed , but fancied by mr. c. ) are meer devised whimzies refuted by me , review , par . . sect . , , , , , . nor is any sufficient answer given hereby , or by mr. c. elsewhere , or any other , or ever will be to the argument as brought by me against infant baptism , review , par . . sect . . and elsewhere . what mr. c. saith , that more might be said about those words in answer to it , namely , that in the words baptizing them , mat. . . we have by a synecdoche , a part for the whole ( an usual form of speech in the scripture ) for we know the apostles commission did extend as well to a setting up of other ordinances as of baptism . therefore when he saith , go teach all nations baptizing them , it is as if he had said , go teach them , and enter them into the practise of the worship of the gospel ; of which among other things the application of the token of abrahams covenant to infants may be a part , any thing in that place contained notwithstanding . answ. . such a synecdoche in any institution of a rite is no where to be found as this which mr. c. dreams of , baptizing them into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , that is , enter them into the practise of the worship of the gospel , not onely baptism , but also breaking of bread , &c. . we know the apostles commission did extend as well to the setting up of other ordinances , viz. breaking of bread , cor. . . as of baptism , but not in the word baptizing , mat. . but in the word teaching them to observe all that i have commanded you , v. . . there is this very thing which mr. c. himself saith against baptizing infants , it is as if he had said , go teach them , and enter them into the practise of the worship of the gospel : for sure christ did not bid them teach infants , nor do i think mr. c. would have them entred into the practise of the gospel worship , but onely baptized . and so mr. cs. answer is a strengthening of the argument . enough in answer to mr. c. being unwilling to make more exceptions on passages which need correction : why i have said so much , the reason is given , sect . . sect . lxxxiii . interest in the covenant gave not title to circumcision , as mr. m. in his th . conclusion would have it . in the defence of his th . and th . concl . against my examen mr. m. saith , he will contract ; and accordingly i shall be brief in my reply . he grants the order of circumcising infants is repealed , as i answered in examining his th . concl . but would have it added , that by gods order baptism succeeds in the room of it , which i have refuted . then upon my saying that circumcision was not a seal of the spiritual part of the covenant , he censures this as pure anabaptism , leaving out injuriously my limitation , to all that were circumcised , which if fairly added had cleared me ; and perhaps if the so called anabaptists had been rightly understood , they had been found as innocent as my self in this thing ; i see enough in paedobaptists dealing with me , to shew how great likelihood there is that the words of the anabaptists in germany were perverted . mr. m. p. , . excepts against me for saying that ishmael and esau had no part in the covenant , denies that ishmael had no part in it , when he himself grants that they did never partake of the spiritual graces of the covenant , which is all one with that which i say , that the covenant of grace was not made to them , they had no part in it ; for sure they to whom the covenant of grace is made , and have part in it , are all partakers of the spiritual graces of the covenant , or else god keeps not his promise ; and for this i bring gen. . , , . rom. . , , . gal. . , . ( though i needed not , having mr. ms. own confession ) and therefore it is most false he saith , i bring not one shadow of a proof for what i say . but mr. m. thinks to maintain his speech , that ishmael had part in the covenant , in that he was reckoned by circumcision to belong to the covenant , and obliged to seek after the spiritual part of it ▪ to have his heart circumcised , and to believe in the messiah that was to come of abrahams seed . answ. . it is contrary to gen. . , , . to say that ishmael by circumcision did belong to the covenant , it runs upon this palpable mistake , that every one that was circumcised had thereby the covenant sealed to him . . those that were uncircumcised , all the people of the world were obliged to seek after the spiritual graces of the covenant , to be holy , to believe ; yet this doth not prove they had a part in the covenant , and therefore this answer of mr. m. is frivolous . and so likewise is that which he saith in answer to my words ( not rightly set down , my words were not , right to evangelical promises or any other benefit ) that no benefit of the covenant was the proper reason ( i added , and adequate ) why these or those were circumcised , but onely gods precept ; though gods command was the cause of the existence of the duty of circumcision , yet the covenant of grace was the motive to it , and these two are well consistent together . in which . he shews not whose motive it was , gods or mans . if he mean it was gods to command it , it is nothing to the purpose to shew right to the covenant of grace to have been the proper adequate reason of the persons to be circumcised : if mans motive , it is false , whether we understand it of ●he circumcised , who were infants , and therefore had no motive to it , but were passive onely , or the circumciser ; for in ●brahams circumcising ishmael mr. m. saith i have given a very good instance to prove , that some may receive the outward sign of the covenant , and a v●sible ●●anding in the church , though he who administers the seal might by revelation know the inward grace is wanting ▪ were his answer gran●ed , yet it proves not the contrary to my speech , but confirms it , though this point be one of the hinges on which his first & main argument turns ▪ for i● it be true that the adequate reason o● pe●sons circumcising was not right to the evangelical promises or other benefit in the covenant , but gods prec●pt onely , then the pillar of mr. ms argument f●lls to the ground , all that are in the covenant are to be sealed , it being onely true thus , all in the covenant , whom god ha●h commanded 〈◊〉 sealed are to be sealed . what he saith after , that i grant what is in controversie , because i grant men may have a visible membership in the church though they be not elected or sanctified , it is alike frivolous , it being never in controversie ; but whether any may be said to be in or under the covenant of grace , or to have the covenant of grace made to them who are non elect , and never sanctified . that which mr. m. p. . calls a piece of odd divinity , that circumcision should seal righteousness to them who never are circumcised , nor reputed so , nor capable of being circumcised , nor might lawfully be circumcised , being understood as i express it of abrahams personal circumcision is the apostles express divinity , rom. . , . whose scope , say new england elders in answer to the d. and th . position , p. . rightly , in that place is not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what is the proper adequate subject of the sacrament ; but to prove by the example of abraham , that a sinner is justified before god not by works , but by faith , &c. nor is this any more odd divinity then mr. ms. who asserts women virtually circumcised in the males . that which he saith , that visible professours have a visible right to the spiritual part of circumcision , i conceive false : for though they had a right to circumcision or baptism , which they might receive of men , yet they had no right at all to forgiveness of sins , justification , adoption , salvation ▪ which are onely from god , and onely true believers had right to . that which he saith , p. . that circumcision was given the jews in reference to their church state , not in reference to their civil state , is not true , but said upon a mistake , as if the church state and civil were different in the jewish commonwealth . that which he confesseth , that the formal reason of their being circumcised was the command of god , is enough to shew that interest in the covenant did not give right to circumcision , but the command of god ; and therefore without shewing a command for infant baptism , this is no good argument , they are in the covenant therefore to be baptized , which enervates all mr. ms. dispute . but he adds ▪ the covenant of grace , or their church state was the motive to it , and the thing it related to ; and this fully answers the objection ; for it was commanded and observed as that which was a priviledge and duty belonging to the covenant , and they used it as being in covenant , the objection is wholly taken off . to which i reply , . the covenant of grace might be in some sense , and the church state of abrahams house in some respect , that is , to bee a sign of it , might be the end why god appointed circumcision to abrahams house ; but motive , that is , impulsive cause , i see not how the covenant of grace and the church state can be termed , there being nothing but his own will , according to the counsel of which he worketh all things , ephes. . . that can be rightly termed a motive to him to command it . . but be it in the sense i allow it termed motive , or end , and a duty belonging to the covenant as a sign of it , and the persons who used it , as abraham , isaac , and jacob used it as being in covenant ; yet neither is it true that all that used it were in the covenant of grace , nor was it appointed as a duty to be used by them to all and they onely that were in the covenant of grace ▪ nor did god by the use of it , seal , signifie , assure or confer an estate in the covenant of grace to every person whom hee appointed to bee circumcised , and therefore no part of the objection is taken off , that circumcision was not the seal of the covenant of grace to all circumcised persons , but was appointed to persons not under the covenant of grace , and denied to persons that were , and consequently mr. ms. proposition not true ; all that were in the covenant were to bee sealed . when mr. m. said , persons were bound to conform to the manner of administration , and this manner of administration he made to bee temporal blessings and punishmenst . i took it he meant they should conform to them . he tels me p. . that though i confidently asserted heretofore , that ishmael , and esau and others , were circumcised for some temporal respects , that circumcision sealed the temporal or political promises , but yet in saying they received circumcision neither in relation to outward things onely , nor at all either as temporal blessings or types , but because god commanded , i do as good as deny it ; sith if they were circumcised with respect to no●hing but the command , it sealed nothing , it was no seal at all . to which i reply , i find not that i asserted any where that ishmael and esau were circumcised for some temporal respects , and though i alledged cameron , saying , that it sealed earthly promises , yet i never said it sealed them to ishmael and esau : nor do i count it any absurdity , to say it sealed nothing to them , or it was no seal at all to them . and i conceive that baptism which is no seal of such earthly promises , nor can be a seal of spiritual and saving grace to every natural child of a believer ( of which he will not assert p. . of his defence there is a promise made to them ) when it is administred to reprobates is no seal of the covenant of grace to them , nor any seal at all , and that he must as well as i do ( if he will speak congruously to his own doctrine ) say that such persons are to bee baptized by reason of gods command and no other . yet i do not say the command of circumcision was not in reference to the covenant of grace , as mr. m. intimates : but this i say , though god commanded circumcision , that he might signifie christ to come , and evangelical grace by him , yet neither the circumciser nor the circumcised did circumcise , or were to be circumcised because of the persons interest in the covenant of grace , as the proper and adequate reason of the du●y of circumcision , but because of gods command , and yet i nothing doubt but that in the use of it , they and others that were neither circumcisers nor circumcised , as e gr . women were by faith to look on the covenant of grace through these administrations , that is to expect christ to come and blessing by him , which speeches are very easily consistent with my own words and scripture doctrine , though mr. m. did not understand it . when mr. m. alledged that circumcision could be no seal of canaan to proselites , and i answered that yet the covenant to abraham had promises of temporal blessings , and that some were to be circumcised who had no part in the covenant of grace , he tels me , . that he was proving that circumcision was no seal of the land of canaan , which i grant , if he mean it to some that were circumcised , yet if he mean it , to none , it is false . . he grants temporal blessings belong to the covenant of grace , according to that tim. . . but neither this nor any other text proves , that the promises of a setled abode in a fruitful land with peace , prosperity , and outward greatness , and dominion therein , is promised to a christian believer now , as it was to abraham and israel after the flesh , gen. . , , , , . but the promise of this life is upon the loss of outward things of a recompense in this life by receiving more , yet with persecution , mark. . . which can bee understood of no other then spiritual comforts , which may bee termed temporal blessings distinct from the everlasting life which in the world to come they shall have . . it was not his drift to prove that all that were circumcised had part in the spiritual graces of the covenant , but that they had a visible membership and right to bee reputed as belonging to the church . but this is not that whi●h hee was to prove that they were in the covenant of grace . lastly , when i excepted agai●st his speech [ that ishmael was really taken into the covenant of grace , and esau , till by their aposta●e they discovenanted themselves . ] . that hee opposed the apostle rom. . , . gal . , . gen. . , . heb. . . to this he repl●es not . . that by this speech he asserts falling from grace , this he denies because hee meant by their taking into the covenant of grace not being under the spiritual grace of the covenant , but the outward administration . but . this is but non-sense and delusory . for the outward administration is not the covenant of grace , circumcision is not the covenant of grace , nor visible profession , nor indeed could he mean it without trifling and mocking his reader when he argued , infants of believers are in the covenant of grace , therefore are to bee sealed with baptism or circumcision . for infants of believers make no visible , profession and if his argument were , they were under the outward administration , that it , to be circumcised or baptized ; and therefore they were to be sealed , that is to be circumcised or baptized , is mere trifling and delusory of the reader , who expects from his words , a proof that gods promise of righteousness and eternal life by christ ( which is and nothing else the covenant of grace ) is made to every infant child of a believer . . if this were mr. ms. meaning , ishmael and esau did not discovenant themselves , for they did uncircumcise themselves , but shewed that they regarded not the blessing of isaac . but saith mr. m. i have no doubt but that all indifferent readers well enough understand what i meant , by being taken into the covenant of grace , even such a taking in as when the gentiles were taken in , instead of the jews who were broken off , they were under the outward administration , visible professours , had an external calling , which is gods act though a common one . to which i reply , . if they were taken into the covenant of grace as the ingraffed gentiles , they were elect and true believers , if esau and ishmael fell from that state of the covenant of grace arminian apostasie is asserted . . neither the outward administration of circumcision to ishmael and esau , nor their visible profession ( whatever it were ) was gods act ( which mr. m. denies not taking into the covenant of grace to be ) therefore by neither of these can they with good sense be said to be taken really into the covenant of grace . . what external call which should be gods act distinct from the outward administration and visible profession mentioned , from which ishmael and esau fell , i understand not . . what ever external calling it be which he means and terms gods act , though a common one , sure i am mr. m. hath not shewed nor can shew that it is a real taking into the covenant of grace , which i said truly , nor hath mr. m. disproved or gain-said it , is gods act , either of election or promise , or some act executing either of these , and the objection still stands good , persons were to bee circumcised who were in the covenant of grace , ishmael was appointed to be circumcised , though it were declared gods covenant did not belong to him , and therefore the reason of circumcising persons was not the covenant of grace , but onely the will and command of god to have it so . sect . lxxxiv . the enlargement of our priviledges , proves not infant baptism as mr. m. in his th . conclusion , would have it . mr. ms. th . conclusion was , the priviledges of believers under this last and best administration of the covenant of grace are many wayes inlarged , made more honourable and comfortable then ever they were in the time of the jews administration . for examining of which i set down something about priviledges , which mr. m. grants , and saith , what 's all this to the purpose ? i reply , i told him it was to uncover the ambiguity of his speeches , in which all the strength of his conclusion lay . to what i said , that if he meant his conclusion of priviledges of the substance of the covenant of grace , it is to be denied : mr. m. confessed they were the sameboth to jews and gentiles ; but in respect of the administration i granted it , hee answers , . if this were granted it hurts not him , it 's sufficient if the administration be now more comfortable to believers and their children . to which i reply , that this grant enervates the argument to which this conclusion tends . for if the priviledges of the covenant of grace belonging to the substance of it be not enlarged , but the same in substance to jews and gentiles , then no priviledges of the covenant of grace are enlarged ; for all the priviledges of the covenant of grace belong to the substance of it , and to true believers or elect onely , the visible membership and initial seal contended for , were no priviledges of the covenant of grace , nor such as all believers could claim for their children , they were personal priviledges to the church of the jews , and belonging to that administration ( as mr. ms. phrase is ) or as i would speak to that peculiar national church state which god vouchsafed that people , out of special ends and respect to that people , of whom as concerning the flesh christ came , and consequently by denying those priviledges we deny no priviledges of the covenant of grace to believers for their children , nor ascribe less grace to them then the jews had . and if the administration be now more comfortable to believers and their children , it being in that circumcision and the yoke of the law are taken away , it follows , it is more comfortable to us , that no such thing as circumcision was is put on our children . mr. m. and paedobaptists do grosly mistake , as if circumcision did belong to jewes and their children because of their interest in the covenant of grace , which neither is nor ever will be proved . ly . saith mr. m. if there be no more honourableness in those priviledges , which belong to the substance of the covenant , how comes it to pass , that in your answers to those several texts which i and others bring to prove the enlargement of priviledges under this last administration , you interpret them of those priviledges which belong to the substance of the covenant , or the spiritual part of it ? answ. in those answers i do not so interpret those texts of those priviledges which belong to the substance of the covenant , or the spiritual part of it as more honourable then the priviledges belonging to the substance of the covenant of grace , or spiritual part of it now then to believers afore christ , but say that the promises of the new covenant , which is the covenant of grace , are better then the promises of the covenant at mount sinai , which was the covenant of works . thirdly , saith mr m. seeing that under this last administration these priviledges are communicated not onely with more clearness , but in greater abundance , i wonder you should say they are no more honourable and comfortable now then they were then , is not abundance of grace more honourable and comfortable then a little grace ? answ. it is , but yet not priviledges belonging to the substance of the covenant of grace . for this clearness and abundance comes not from the substance of the covenant of grace , but to use his phrase , from the administration , in respect of which i granted they are many wayes enlarged and made more honourable . but then saith mr. m. this will serve our turn well enough ; for this was a priviledge belonging to their administration , that their infants were under it as well as themselves ; yeild that for ours and the controversie is ended . answ. the yeilding that the priviledges of believers under the n. t. are enlarged , more honourable , and more comfortable , in respect of the administration , will not serve mr. ms. turn , except it be yeilded of this particular , that the infants of christian believers are visible christian churchmembers , and to be entred by baptism , as well as the hebrew infants of and into the church of israel by circumcision , which would indeed end the controversie if yeilded , but was not so by me , who granted priviledges of believers now more enlarged in respect of the administration , because the preaching of the gospel , which is that whereby the covenant of grace is administred , is enlarged to gentiles as well as jewes , and more honourable , because preached by christ himself , and more comfortable because in plain words without shadows . mr. m. adds . to have nothing in lieu of the administrations then as they were shadowes of the substance , which is christ , is very right : but to say , it is our priviledge to have nothing in lieu of them as they were external ordinances to apply christ , is to say , it is our priviledge to have no ordinances to apply christ to us , and thereby to make us compleat in him , which were a most absurd thing to affirm . answ. those external ordinances applied christ to them no otherwise then as shadows of the substance , which is christ , nor doth mr. m. in his sermon , p. , . express their administrations of the covenant of grace otherwise then as figures , signs , types , and sacraments of spiritual things : so that if we have nothing in lieu of them as they were shadows , but christ , we have nothing in lieu of them as external ordinances to apply christ to us ; nor did they make us compleat in christ , nor is it absurd to affirm that no external ordinances now do . but saith mr. m. circumcision was indeed a part of that administration , and obliged them to the rest of that manner of administration , as baptism doth now to ours ; but did it not also belong to the substance ? answ. no. was it not a seal of the righteousness of faith , of circumcision of heart , &c. answ. abrahams was , not every ones circumcision . doth not the seal belong to the thing sealed ? the conveyance and seal annexed to it are no part of the purchased inheritance , but do they not belong to it ? answ. they do , but not as of the substance of the thing sealed , or the inheritance purchased , or the covenant whereby it is promised : but as the sign whereby the futurity of it is confirmed . now surely he should use non sense , who should ●erm the sign or seal the substance of the covenant or thing promised , being neither essential nor integral parts of them , but onely adjuncts , without which they may be or not be entirely . to my saying , that 't is so far from being a priviledge to our children to have them baptized , to have baptism succeed in the stead of circumcision , that it is a benefit to want it , god not appointing it ; i answer ( saith mr. m. ) then belike our priviledges of the covenant of grace are so far from being enlarged by enjoying the sacrament of baptism , that it had been a priviledge to have wanted baptism if god had not appointed it ; and by as good a reason at least you might have said , that circumcision was so far from being a privilegde to the jews and their children , that it had been a benefit for them to have wanted it , if god had not commanded it : sure that is a strange kind of priviledge , of which i may truly say , that it had been a greater be - to them who have it , to have wanted it , if the donor had not commanded it . answ. mr. m. by clipping my words hath misrepresented my speech ; he hath left out , that circumcision was a priviledge belonging not to the substance of the covenant , but to the administration which then was ; a priviledge to the jews in comparison of the heathens , but a burthen in comparison of us , which was in that it signified christ to come , the obligation of the law , for which reasons i judged it a great priviledge to us and our children , that they have neither it , nor any other thing in the place and u●e of it , but christ manifested in the flesh , because if we had any thing in the use of it , christ must be expected to come in the flesh , and jesus denied to be the christ , and we debtors to keep the whole law . and then i determined absolutely , that the want of infant baptism is no loss to us and our children ; not a loss in respect of duty , god having not appointed it ; nor of priviledge , god making no promise of grace to be confirmed by it to the infants of believers ; which last words being left out by mr. m. the reason of my words is omitted , and my speech misrepresented ; but thus set down mr. ms. exceptions appear but cavils . for he supposeth our priviledges of the covenant of grace are enlarged by enjoying the sacrament of baptism ; but i know not any priviledges of the covenant of grace , but effectual calling , justification , adoption , sanctification , glorification ; and if there be any other termed saving graces , or which accompany salvation , and to say these are enlarged by enjoying the sacrament of baptism , especially when administred to infants , is as much as to say it confers grace ex opere operato . and i grant for us to have wanted baptism had been a priviledge , god not appointing it , nor promising any thing upon the use of it , nor declaring his acceptance of it , which is the case of infant baptism . sure i know none but would think it a burthen to be baptized , or be covered with water , though but for a moment , were it not god commanded it , and accepted of it as a service to him . and the like is true of circumcision , the want of which , being so painfull , was a benefit , but for the command and promise of god signified by it . such actions as are no way priviledges , but sins , without gods precept and promise , it is better to want them then have them , or act them ; such is infant baptism ; and if it be in the place and use of circumcision , it is a heavy burthen , no benefit now , but a yoke of bondage . i said mr. m. was to prove either that circumcision did belong to the substance of the covenant of grace , and he answers , that circumcision , though a part of their administration , did yet belong to the substance ; not as a part of it , but as a means of applying it : which speech how frivolous it is , is shewed before , sect . . p. , . and in this section . or that the want of circumcision , or some ordinance in the place and use of it , is a loss of priviledge of the covenant of grace to us and our children . to this he saith , and i have also proved , that though it be a priviledge to have nothing succeed circumcision , as it bound to that manner of administration , yet it is a priviledge to have somewhat succeed it as a seal of the covenant , in as much as a covenant with a seal is a greater benefit then a covenant without a seal . answ. . if it be a priviledge to have nothing succeed circumcision as it bound to that manner of administration , then it is a priviledge to have nothing succeed it in its use , which confirms my before speech carped at by m. m. . how vain the talk of paedobaptists is about sacraments being seals of the covenant of grace , is shewed before sect . . . a covenant with a seal is a greater benefit then a covenant without a seal when there is more assurance and better estate thereby procured , but if as good assurance and estate be by a covenant without a seal , it is no greater benefit to have a seal , then to have a covenant without it . . there is a seal of the covenant of grace , which succeeds circumcision as the substance the shadow , and that is christs cirumcision , col. . . and his bloudshedding , mat. . . heb. . . &c. besides the seal of gods spirit . but saith mr. m. the thing i was to prove was that our priviledges are enlarged , not extenuated ; which appears , partly , in that we have freedome in what was burdensome to them in their manner of administration : which he meant of circumcision by his alledging act. . . and thereby it is manifest that it is false which he said before , that circumcision did belong to the substance of the covenant as a means of applying it . for that speech doth imply , that the covenant of grace could not be applied without circumcision , for that which is of the substance of a thing , what way it is of the substance of it , is necessary to the being of that of which it is of the substance , otherwise it were a common accident , not of the substance of it : but without circumcision the covenant of grace might be applied , yea , according to mr. m. it is and may be better applied , for otherwise our priviledges were not enlarged in being freed from it . partly , saith mr. m. because our covenant is established upon better promises , heb. . . to this i answered , the covenant which had not so good promises was the covenant at mount sinai , v. . which was not the covenant of grace ( for then it should have the best promises , there being no better promises then are in the covenant of grace , nor could it be broken as that was , nor occasion finding f●ult as that did ; ) but it must needs be the covenant of works as the scripture doth plainly deliver , rom. . . gal. . , , & . . heb. . . &c. and for this i alledged some of mr. ms. own words in his sermon , p. . that the law was added not as a part of abrahams covenant , that in that giving the law there was something of the covenant of works made with adam in paradise . to this mr. m. returns an answer , bemoaning me as running into a needless and erroneous digression ; that he said indeed in his sermon , that the moral law was added years after the covenant was made with abraham , not as a part of that covenant , but as a schoolmaster to whip them to christ ; that they finding the impossibility of keeping the law , might more earnestly long after christ , exhibited in those shadows of rites and sacrifices , &c. but to say that this covenant mentioned heb. . was the covenant of works , is a most erroneous doctrine ; look into the text , and you shall find that the covenant which is there mentioned ( which god finds fault with , and calls the first covenant , in opposition to this better covenant ) had ordinances of divine worship , had a sanctuary a tabernacle , priests and high priests , sacrifices , and other rites belonging to the administration of it . sir , was this the covenant of works ? i hope you will not own it in your next . answ. it is , and i do still own it in the d . section of this part of my review , and do requite mr. ms. pitty of me with the like bemoaning his ignorance , and , if i mistake not , the assemblies errour about this in their confession of faith , ch . . art . . i have looked into the texts , and i find mr. m. mistaken in the meaning of gal. . . perhaps following the unnecessary supplement in our last english translation , where is added [ to bring us ] which the text hath not , but onely the law was our boy-leader unto christ , that is until christ , as v. , . shew , and the meaning is plain , that the apostle compares the law to a teacher , or guide , or overseeer of a child in his minority to which the israelites were confined , not in respect of its severity as mr. m. makes it , to whip them to christ , but as a teacher directing them though imperfectly by figures and types untill christ , and faith in him were revealed . in like manner he mistakes when he saith , god finds fault with the first covenant , the words being for complaining of them , heb. . nor complaining or finding fault with it : and when it is translated v. . if the first covenant had been faultless , it is not intimated as if it were faulty , but they were faulty , as vers . . shews , and the covenant is termed non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not from the fault of it , but of them , which occasioned complaints of them , and therefore it were better translated without complaint or plaintless , then faultless . as for what mr. m. alledgeth from heb. . . it no more proves that the covenant at mount sinai was the covenant of gospel grace , and not of works , then because the tree of life was a symbole , type , or shadow of christ , or our blessed estate in him , therefore the covenant made with adam in paradise before his fall , was not a covenant of works , but of gospel grace ; or noahs ark typified baptism , therefore the covenant with noah , gen. . was a covenant of evangelical grace . the covenant of grace and of works are denominated from the promise and condition , not from gods intent in some things commanded . when our lord christ , mar. . . told the young man of entring into life , he propounded the covenant of works , yet he had another end therein , to wit , to try and discover him . though the commands about the sacrifices , high priest , &c. were to typyfie christ , yet the law as it was propounded covenant wise is manifestly declared to be the covenant of works , rom. . . gal. . , . yea , mr. ms. own words prove it . for . where he cites the addition of the law , gal. . . the law is not restrained to the moral law , but contains all the commands of the sacrifices , &c. as well as the moral law , which were added because of transgressions , not onely to restrain them , but also for the expiating of some offences against the law , so as to obtain a partial temporary forgiveness by them , as is manifest from levit. . &c. now the whole law as delivered years after the covenant with abraham , is contradistinct to the covenant confirmed before in christ , or the promises ; therefore as it was a covenant , exod. . , it was a covenant of works . . if it were not a part of the covenant with abraham , it was not the covenant of grace , for such was abrahams covenant ; but according to mr. m. the law was no part of that covenant , ergo. . that which was a schoolmaster to whip , was not the covenant of grace , for the covenant of grace doth not terrifie or whip , but such is the law according to mr. m. ergo. . that which was impossible to bee kept , was not the covenant of grace , for that is never broken , but such was the law or covenant at mount sinai according to mr. m. ergo. . if in the giving the law there was something of the covenant of works made with adam in paradise , then it was a covenant of works , this he must grant , unless he will have a mixt covenant , partly of grace and partly of works , which he opposeth in his answer to me about abrahams covenant ; but in the giving that law according to mr. m there was something of the covenant of workes made with adam in paradise , ergo. . that which god finds fault with is not the covenant of grace , but acc●rding to mr. m. god finds fault with it , ergo. . that which is termed the first covenant in opposition to this covenant is not the covenant of grace ; but such according to mr. m. is that at mount sinai , ergo. . the covenant of grace is the better covenant , but such was not that at mount sinai , according to mr. m. ergo. and truely i finde so many protestant divines terming the covenant at mount sinai the covenant of works , perkins on gal. . . pemble of justification sect . . c. ● . cotton in his way of congregational churches cleered p. , . however in some respect hee will have it to have been a covenant of grace , yet to the carnal seed ●aith , it was a covenant of workes , and proves it out of paul ; and adds , and so have the chiefest german divines as well as piscator and polanus , t●ken the covenant on mount sinai to bee a covenant of works . see piscator ezek. . observat . ult . in v. . and . and polanus ibidem . and synt. th. l. c. . pisc. observ . e v. . heb. . dicson paraph. gal . , , , . hebr . , . becman . th exercit. . p. de saedere operum aut legis legimus , exod . . deut. . . reg. . . jer. . . heb . , , . to whom i add my antagonists mr. geree vindic . vindic . p. . mr. baill●e in his anabaptism , pag. . and might do many more if it were necessary . this is enough to shew my doctrine to have been unjustly termed most erroneous by mr. m. beeing pauls , mr. ms. and others named , and therefore rightly owned by me . to my words exam. p. ; . the next scripture you thus express , the glory of theirs had no glory in respect of ours , cor. . . but this passage is plainly meant of the covenant at mount sinai , which is called the letter , v. the ministration of death written and ingraven in stones so glorious , that the children of israel could not stedfastly behold the face of moses for the glory of his countenance , which glory was to be done away , v. . the ministration of condemnation , v . which i suppose you do not understand of the covenant of grace , and therefore it is impertinently alledged , mr. m answers thus sir , i wonder at your confidence in it : the reader will easily discern that the whole scope of that chapter clearly holds forth the preheminence of the ministery of the gospel above the ministery of moses his vailed ceremonies : belike then with you , moses ceremonies were the covenant of works . answ. i wonder that a man of such note should wonder at that of which the reason is given , and should take upon him to defend his own sermon , and yet pass by my reason against his allegation without rehearsal or answer to it . in form it stands thus . that which was the letter which killeth , written in tables of stone opposite to the new testament , and the spirit which giveth life , the ministration of death , of condemnation by moses , was the law or covenant of works , for it is onely the covenant of works , not that of grace how darkly soever delivered , of which these things can be said . but such was the law or covenant at mount sinai , ergo. 't is true , it was the apostles scope to hold forth the preheminence of the ministry of the gospel , but not barely above the ministry of moses vailed ceremonies , for the apostle prefers it before the ministry of the letter written and ingraven in stone , v. , . which was the moral law , but above the ministry of the whole law , which comprehending all the commands mosaical promulged covenant-wise , and not singly moses ceremonies , are by me termed the covenant of works , and of this i am still confident . mr. m. skips over his impertinent allegation of gal. . , &c. and grants pet. . . the spiritual part to belong onely to the invisible church , of which he denies not the whole v. to be meant , but onely tels me , the whole nation of the jews who had the honour to be termed holy , the children of god , deut. . . to have the adoption , rom. . . were not inwardly holy , or effectually called ; which i readily grant , nor need i prove that rom. . . deut. . . were not priviledges which the visible church of the jewes enjoyed , having not denied it , but do expresly grant of rom. . . that it speaks of peculiar priviledges of the jews , and prove thence the jewes had some priviledges above us , and that the want of some priviledges they had may bee recompensed by some priviledges wee have , and thence gathered that is a feeble reason , from the jewish priviledge of infant circumcision , to prove infant baptism ; yet nothing that mr. m brings , shews pet. . . to bee meant of any other then the elect , nor that believers priviledges of the covenant of grace are enlarged . what he saith , that the comfortable manner of administration , and baptism are enlarged beyond circumcision , to females , and all nations , is granted ; but this groves not priviledges of the covenant of grace to be enlarged to each believer now , although there are more believers now and for gal . . the words [ there is neither male nor female ] are not added to shew baptism to be administred to whom circumcision was not , for then [ neither bond nor free ] should be added for the same reason , which had not been right , for bondmen were circumcised formerly , as well as then baptized ; but to shew a general equality of all believers in christ , and therefore that passage is meant onely of true believers . having shewed the impertinency of mr. ms. allegations for his th . conclusion , i answered the argument drawn thence for infant baptism thus . . it is no good argument , god gave such a priviledge to the jewes , ergo we must have such a priviledge too , without gods institution , but arrogant presumption to claim it . . that god gave many peculiar priviledges to the jewes which we have not , as that abraham was the father of the faithfull , mary the mother of christ ; no family out of which christ came but abrahams , no nation that god hath promised after many hundred years rejection to re-ingraff besides the jewes . this mr. m. endeavoured to prevent in his sermon , by saying , these were personal priviledges belonging to some particular persons , not the whole church of the jewes , nor from the covenant , but that to have infants belong to his church , and to have the initial seal are , and if that we have it not for ours , the grace of god is straitned as to our posterity , which he counts absurd , hereto many things are replied by me . . that this was never a priviledge to believers , that their children should be in the covenant of grace , god never made such a promise to every true believer , that he would be god to every believer and his natural seed , nor commanded that wee should repute the infants of believers to bee in the covenant of grace . this hath been largely handled in my review of mr. ms. second conclusion . . that the pretended priviledge of a believers infant childrens visible churchmembership and title to the initial seal was not from the covenant of gospel grace , but from the peculiar dealing of god towards the nation of the hebrews , out of peculiar reasons concerning that churchstate which that people were to have untill christ came , which is largely discussed in answer to mr. baxters second main argument section , &c. of this part of the review . . that even then when it was a priviledge to the hebrew people , yet title to the initial seal was not common to all believers children , not to those under eight dayes old , nor to females , nor to proselites of the gate , as v. g. to cornelius and his children . . that a priviledge there is to the jewes , even to the nation , and that arising from gods covenant of gospel grace , that their posterity shall after some hundred years rejection bee re-ingraffed , and yet this not to any gentile believer , prince , preacher , or martyr concerning their posterity , and therefore it is no absurdity to say , that in some respect the priviledges of the covenant of grace , even of the substance of it , were more large to some of the hebrew believers , then to the gentiles in respect of posterity . . that the personal priviledges of abraham , mary , &c. were more truely pertinent to the covenant of grace , though not common to all jews , then infants visible chvrchmembership and title to the initial seal . . that priviledges are meer arbitrary things , and that no reason why they are given to some and not to others , is needfull to be assigned besides the donors will. . that there is no more reason to say god grace is less now , because infants are not visible churchmembers and baptized ; then it is to say it is less because christ is not descended from them , they are not fathers of the faithfull . that there were many priviledges which the jews had which we have not , as those rom. . . & . . to have a temple , high-priest on earth , &c. . that the want of these is abundantly recompensed by christs comming without any particular thing of the same kinde in the stead of them , and therefore the want of churchmembership and initial seal , may in like manner bee said to bee recompensed by his comming . . that the priviledge the children of levi had , that their posterity should inherit the priesthood , be maintained by the offerings of the people , be exempt from many burthens , is not now to ministers children , nor any thing instead of it , and yet there is as much reason from the covenant of levi why ministers children should have this priviledge , or somewhat instead of it as from the covenant of abraham , that our children should have baptism in stead of circumcision . . that young children were to eat the passeover , and yet children of three or four years old are not admitted to the lords supper ; and consequently after the rate of mr. ms. reasoning , the grace of god is straitned to us in respect of our posterity . . that the grace of god is not denied by not baptizing infants , for that would infer that it did give grace . . that by denying infants visible churchmembership and baptism , wee do not put them out of the covenant of grace , or church of god. . that baptism is a duty rather then a priviviledge . that the use of it is rather for us to seal to god by it , that is , to testifie the repentance and faith of the baptized , then for god to us , as assuring by it the promise of gospel grace . . that by baptizing an infant the parent is not assured that the child is in the covonant of grace . . that through the want of infants visible churchmembership , such as the jews children had , wee have no loss of priviledge , but rather benefit , it being a state of imperfection . . that the want of the initial seal which the jewes had is a benefit it having a burthen annexed to it . . that children have no less of the grace of god by their want of christian visible churmembership and baptism then the jewes infants had . . that parents have as much cause of comfort concerning their children without these as they have by them . mr m. p. . speaks thus ; i think indeed it would take with no sober christian thus to argue : the jewes had it , therefore we must have it . but sir to argue thus , god gave such a priviledge to the whole church of the jewes , that their infants should be reputed to belong to his church , and have the initial seal . therefore if hee have not granted to christians that their infants shall also bee reputed to belong to his church , and partake of the initial seal ; then his grace to believers under the n. t. is straitned as to their posterity . this argument appears so clear to me , that i must confess my self one of those dull ones , who know not how to deny the consequence . answ. mr. m. hath ill recited my frame of the argument , which he rejects , by leaving out the chief words [ without an institution ] . yet his new frame mends not the matter , but indeed is in effect all one with that which he saith would take with no sober christian for [ the jewes ] and [ the whole church of the jewes ] are the same , and [ had it ] and [ must have it ] expressed but the same which mr. m. saith in more words : nor doth he put in any thing of gods will or institution to have it so , and therefore there is no more reason why his new frame should take with any sober christian , then the former . yet i shall view it as it is and . i deny the antecedent , god did not give the priviledge to the whole church of the jews , that their infants should have the initial seal , meaning it of all . . i deny the consequence , if by [ grace ] he mean gospel grace ; though infants of christians be not reputed to belong to the visible church , nor are baptized , yet the grace of the gospel , that is , remission of sin , sanctification , adoption , glorification ( which is that the scripture makes gospel grace ) is not straitned to christians as to their posterity . and the reasons of this denial are so plain to me , that i see no clearness in it , but should take my self dull if i should not discern its weakness . for the infant visible churchmembership being by reason of the peculiar national churchstate of the jews , and circumcision of infants by reason of that which was proper to the hebrew people , or policy , into which proselytes were admitted , not from the covenant of grace common to all believers in all ages , it is easie to perceive that notwithstanding the altering of these ( which god hath done , ) the grace of god is as much now to our children as to theirs . and here i think meet to answer mr. geree's argument as he frames it , vindic . paedobapt . pag. . i do grant the sequel of the major , if children of christian parents be excluded the covenant , then are the priviledges of the n. t. more restrained : but that we exclude them from the covenant of grace is false , we onely deny the fictitious covenant of paedobaptists , that god hath promised to be the god of believers and their seed : nor is it any harsh divinity , or derogatory from the incarnation of christ , to say , the jews converted , whose infants had the birth priviledge of membership in the jewish church by natural generation , have not the priviledge of membership in the christian , which is by spiritual regeneration . nor doth the term [ natural branches , rom. . , . ] ever agree to gentiles ingrafted , but that they are still branches of the wild olive by nature , nor any of them in the true olive without faith or election . nor doth mr. geree shew how he that denies baptism to infants denies the grace and mercy of god to us , if the grace of god be not tied to the sacraments . nor doth he shew that the priviledges of believers young children of . , or years old are not as much straitned if they who were admitted to the passeover are not admitted to the lords supper . for though the reception into the covenant and church were sufficiently done in baptism ; yet they should not have the priviledge of growth and nutrition , which the jews young children had by the passeover , if paedobaptists doctrine of the passeover , and lords supper be right . but i return to ●r m. mr. m. tels me , that though i say my instances of abrahams , the virgin mary's and jews priviledges not being now to us , do press his conclusion ; yet that i speak no word to vindicate them from his answer , and therefore he gathers that by this time ● see that now some personal priviledges ▪ which a few of the jews had , may be denied us , yet it makes nothing against his argument ; but if the common priviledges which every one of them had were denied us , our priviledges were straitned . answ. mr. m. doth not rightly say i spake not a word to vindicate my instances from his answer . for besides all or most of those twenty things either in my exercit. sect . . or in my examen , par . . sect . , , , , . and elsewhere , which do enervate his answer , i did directly reply , that neither was his priviledge of the initial seal to infants any other then personal , not a branch of the covenant of grace common to all in covenant , for which by vertue of the covenant they might rely upon god ; and for this i alledged the faithfull before abraham , melchizedek and lot in his time , job and cornelius after his time ; and therefore if the want of priviledges personal , as he terms them , doth not shew a straitning of gods grace to us now , neither doth the want of infant visible churchmembership and baptism now shew it . that of melchizedek , lot , and job , mr. m. saith , hath been often answered ; but he hath no where shewed , that they were not in the covenant of grace , or that by vertue of the covenant they and their infants had right to the initial seal . and as for cornelius , i never intended to prove , that he was a member of the church of the jews , nor that the priviledges and churchmembership of these proselytes of the gate were as honourable as those of the proselytes of the covenant , but that though he were in the covenant of grace , yet he had not the priviledge of churchmembership in the church of the jews , nor circumcision ; and therefore these priviledges , whatever they were , were not branches of the covenant of grace common to all in covenant for which by vertue of the covenant they might rely on god , as mr. m. asserted . to what i said , to be father of the faithfull , mother of christ , the priviledges rom. . . & . . do as much belong to the covenant of grace as circumcision , mr. m. answers nothing . upon the words by me used , that the phrases rom. . ● , . do seem to me to import , that the jews had this priviledge to have their children reckoned in the outward administration , as branches of the olive by their birth , which the gentiles have not , ( which speech i have altered in the first part of this review , p. , . ) mr. m. asks , but if we gentiles have it not , then are not we , i pray you , straightned in that particular ? answ. yea. and i demand further , when we are graffed in and so naturalized with them , do we not partake of all the fatness or priviledges of the olive with them ? what scripture ever denied it ? answ. that we by ingraffing are made natural branches , is denied ▪ it is granted , we are partakers of all the fatness and priviledges of the olive , to wit , spiritual graces , but not of the priviledges which the natural branches had by birth . mr. m. adds . i demand yet further , did the many ten thousands of jews who were baptized in the apostles days , by their comming under this best administration of the covenant , and thereby kept their former growing in the olive with advantage ; did they thereby deprive their children of that which you say was their natural priviledge ? if you think so , produce your evidence to prove it ; if they were not , then it seems the jews who believed in christ , and kept their station , had a greater priviledge for their children then the gentiles , who grow to together with them , have for their children . answ. the natural priviledge which i say the jews had , was , that their children were in the visible church jewish , and their males to be circumcised ; this by their baptism they were deprived of , it being then no priviledge , after christ exhibited in the flesh and preached , to be in the visible church jewish opposite to the christian , and to be circumcised . nor is it true , that the converted baptized jews were in the olive afore they believed in christ , or kept their station in the visible church jewish , but were cast out , or that they should have had greater priviledges of the covenant for their children , if they had continued in the visible church jewish , and been to be circumcised , then the gentiles , whose children were not visible christian visible churchmembers , nor to be baptized , as is abundantly proved by me from scripture and otherwise in the foreparts of this review . to mr. ms. speech , as if we expunged infants out of the covenant , it was answered , that it was a calumny , whereto he replies , but do not you avouch , that the infants of the jews had this peculiar priviledge and birth-right to be under the administration of the covenant , which ours have not ? answ. i still avouch it in the sense the phrase seems to be taken for being jewish visible churchmembers , and to be circumcised ; but what he adds , which you know is the onely thing controverted betwixt us , is manifestly false , it being never so much as questioned by me . he adds , may not i boldly say , that once the infants of all covenanters had this priviledge ? answ. no. may i not also exact of you to shew when and where this was taken away ? answ. it hath been often shewed , infant-male circumcision in the synod , act. . , . infants churchmembership matth. . . were taken away , of which there is enough said before , sect . , &c. where infant visible churchmembership is proved to be altered , and yet infants not expunged out of the covenant of the gospel , as mr. m. suggests . on the contrary , mr. ms. conceit as if the denying them visible churchmembership and baptism were putting them out of the covenant of grace , i intimated to come too near the popish opinion , of the necessity of infants baptism to their salvation , which i thought worth answering , sith it is all one in my conceit to say , that by denying baptism to them we put them out of the covenant , and to say we damn them , it being certain none are saved but those who are in the covenant of grace . to that which he saith of our doctrine bringing discomfort to parents , in that we leave their infants in the state of infidels , account them actually to belong to the visible kingdome of the devil deny them the benefit of the promise i will be the god of thee and thy seed , acknowledge no more promise for them , then for the children of turks i answer , these are meer calumnies sufficiently discovered to be so , exam. par . . sect . . apolog. sect . . sect . lxxxv . mr. cobbers dictates , just. vindic. par . . ch . . touching childrens baptismal right , are examined and refelled . mr. cobbet just. vindic . par . . sect . . sets down this as his position , that the initiatory seal follows the covenant ; but he proves it not : and whereas to the objection against it , that from adams time to abrahams , there was no initiatory seal to those who were in covenant ; nor in abrahams time to melchizedek , lot , job ; he answers , that such extraordinary cases and times are very impertinently urged by some to inf●ringe the force of ordinary rules and principles : i say , his answer is insuff●cient . for . this onely is an answer where it is proved that there is such an ordinary rule and principle from which these cases swerve : but no such rule or principle can be shewed of an initiatory seal belonging to persons in covenant , from which this should be counted an exception ; therfore this is not an extraordinary case . . besides , extraordinary cases make a just exception from an ordinary rule for some , by reason of some peculiar accident not happening to others : but to all in covenant from adam to abraham , there is not , nor can be shewed any such peculiar accident which happened not to others , which was the reason of omitting an initiatory seal by those in covenant : ergo , it was not because of extraordinary cases that it was omitted , but because there was no such rule . . extraordinary cases are few and rare , but the omission of an initiatory seal was constant , and universal by those in covenant until abrahams time , therefore it was not an extraordinary case . . extraordinary cases and times are but for a little while : but this omission was for above . years , which me thinks mr. c. should not so dote as to count an extraordinary time ; sure the time wherein circumcision was in force was shorter , and it was in that time often omitted , and therefore we may by mr. cs. dictates as well say , the initiatory seal was extraordinary , and the ordinary rule was , that those in covenant were not to have an initiatory seal , specially considering that even in abrahams time , and after , it was omitted by melehizdek , lot , job . nor is it of any weight to say that there was not a visible political church then ; for. . no doubt in their families were visible political churches as well as in abrahams . . the initiatory seale , as they call it , might and was to be to persons without a visible political church as to the eunuch acts. . to moses children in midian &c nor is it of any weight to say these churches were not to continue : for . that is not so certain as to be taken for granted . . abrahams posterity were not to continue still the church of god , though they were to continue longer then the posterity of j●b and lot. . but if this were a sufficient reason , why they should not have an initiatory seal solemnly instituted for them , because they were not sucessively to continue , then should not the churches which were not successively to continue ( of which doubtless there were many from whom the candlestick was quickly removed ) have had baptism instituted for them . . by mr. cs. reasoning , his rule the initiatory seal followes the covenant must bee thus limited , in ordinary times and cases when and where there is a visible political church which is successively to continue . which if it were granted him , yet it will never serve his turn to prove this universal proposition , from which paedobaptists infer infant baptism , all that are in the covenant are to have the initiatory seal or to be baptized . but neither is it true in ordinary times , where there is a visible political church successively to continue . for it is not true of those in covenant in abrahams house , neither the females , nor males of seven dayes old onely were to have the initiatory seal , though in covenant . to that which is said , that the females had not a superfluous fore●skin , besides what hath been said before to the contrary , i say . this however infringeth mr. cs. rule , that in ordinary times in visible political churches successively to continue , the seal initiatory follows the covenant , for it doth not so in the female hebrews . . if gods will had been as mr. c. would have it , he could have appointed an initiatory seal common to females with males . but what saith m. c. to the instance of the males of . days only to infringe his rule ? i find nothing except this be an answer , in that case of the females as in some other , that law of circumcision had something peculiar in it , albeit it had other things in common with that of baptism , which i take to be a sufficient proof against him , that the rule of circumcision is not a rule to us about baptism ; and that his proposition is not true , that in ordinary times and cases , respecting the political visible church and its administrations , such little ones as are of parents in such visible church-state , they have external right unto the injoyned initiatory visible seal , of which they are outwardly capable , and ought not to be denied the use and benefit of it . there is also an objection against the principle fore-mentioned , all that are in covenant are to have the initial seal , or as mr. c. speaks , the initiatory seal followes the covenant , that if the connexion bee between seal and covenant , it is as well besween the after seal as the initial , and so they may as well plead for infants comming to the lords supper , as in cyprians time , and as the young ones of the jews did partake of the passeover . to this mr. c. saith , male infants were not to appear at the passeover , if so , then they must appear at the feast of tabernacles & must carry boughes , from deut. . ●● , . compared with levit. . , , , , . that though persons have a covenant right in general , yet their jus in re is to be suspended and not elicited in case of incapacity , or of extream coldness of the countrey , or sickness &c. answ. . if infants were not to appear at the passeover , yet young children not to be admitted to the lords supper were , nor doth the text tie them all to carry boughs who were to appear . . the objection holds as much concerning the yong ones at jerusalem , who were to eat the passeover , and by mr. cs. reasons such yong ones should be at the lords supper , as having covenant interest and therefore jus ad rem , nor is there any such incapacity or danger to them in eating the lords supper to suspend their jus in re , as is to be baptized in greenland , or in extreme weakness and sickness ; and therefore ●y mr. cs. reasons they ought not to be denied the lords supper . . if infants covenant-right to the lords supper be su●pended because of their defect of understanding to examine themselves , their covenant-right to baptism is as justly susp●nded til they repent and believe , which are as much and more required to baptism as self examination to the lords supper . and if it be true then mr. cs. position is not right , that infants ought not to be denied the use and benefit of baptism . . if it were in cyprians time a corruption to give infants the lords supper , so it was to baptize them , being on the same reason of no greater an●iquity . but let 's view what hee saith for the clearer handling of his thesis . sect. . he saith , that mixt commands of god having some part circumstantial and vanishing , some part substantial and abiding , the later is binding to us since christs time , albeit the former be not ; and he instanceth in a th . day sabbath : but neither he nor any other have yet proved any such substantial part abiding in the command of circumcision , and how little the instance given i● to his purpose , is shewed before , § . , , . that which mr. c. saith sect . . is granted , that consequential commandements grounded on scripture are scripture commandements , but that any command o● a positive rite in the old testament is a command to us about a positive right of the new , or that in mere positive worship that should not be excluded which is not expressed , is not granted ; to the contrary somewhat is said in the d part of this review , § . , , . and elsewhere . i have often said prove infant baptism by good consequence , and i shall yeild . that federal ordinances , such as are the seals , are as well priviledges as precepts , which mr. c. sect . . asserts , when they are rightly admininistred , is granted ; but it is denied that the passeover , baptism , the lords supper , are federal ordinances or seals of the covenant of grace in mr. cs. sense , who p. ● . makes circumcision in the nature of it to bee a seal of the righteousness of faith ; and in like manner those ot●er , which he cals federal ordinances , seals of the promise of the covenant of grace , of the righteousness of faith in their nature . there ●s not a word acts . ▪ . by which it may appear that circumcision of the child was reckoned as the fathers priviledge , nor their own circumcision as their priviledge , but only of abr●ham that god g●ve him the covenant of circumcision , whereby he was assured of a son by sarah , & so he b●gate isaac and circumcised him the th . day , which priviledg was peculiar to abraham , and to none other i know , excep● zachary john baptists father be said ●o have the same priviledge , nor is rom . , , , . any whit to m cs purpose , to prove that circumcision is reckoned as the fathers priviledge . for . it is manifest that rom. . . circumcision is to be understood metonymically , as v. . for the circumcised , sith it is not sold there was much profit by circumcision but of circumcision , as before , what advantage of the jew ? nor was the priviledge v● . the committing the oracles of god to them , the priviledge of circumcision in the abstract or by circumcision as the means by which it was , but the priviledge of that people who were circumcised . . if it were granted that the priviledge were by circumcision , yet that it was the fathers pri●iledge by reason of the childs circumcision rather then his own , is a vain fancy . nor doth acts . , . yeild any more to his purpose , but is most g●osly abused by mr. c. as is shewed before § . , nor are the passages which he alledgeth p. . out of my examen , dissonant to any passages before or any after , except those words of my examen p. ● . which i alter in the first ; part of this review , p. , . and to his many questions from my words . i answer , that ●e hath not proved the covenant of grace , wherein god promiseth to be a god to them and theirs , to b●long to every jew , but onely to abraham and his seed , that is , so far as it is evangeliacl on●ly to his spiritual seed whether of jewes or gentile , and therefore i deny it was a priviledge which every jew had , to be a god to them and theirs ; and yet grant that deut. . . with ● . was a priviledge , and so i yeeld to have been what god promised ezek . from the to the end , and deut. . . and that sundry infants of the jews b●se born w●re in the covenant of saving grace and church-priviledges , and that it was a priviledge to them , and that the promises of the covenant of grace are priviledges , and the same now to believers and as large and honourable as then , and that the promises to their children mentioned deut. . . were of the substance of the covenant of grace , in respect of the thing promised , but not in respect of the persons to whom , for god doth not promise to all his elect or t●ue believers , that which he promised then in that case to the israelites for their seed , and i yeild that even base born children may bee in the covenant of saving grace , and yet these promises are not made to church children , ( as mr. c. speaks ) ●s such , but onely to the elect . nevertheless i grant the same promises now to bee made to believers , which were then , to wit , rigtheousness and life eternal by faith yea that they are larger now , no intensively in respect of the thing promised , as if a greater degree of righteousness and eternal life , were promised now then was then , but extensively in respect of the people to whom the gentiles now being cal●ed , and t●at mo●e amply th●n the jews , nor do i or any thing i say exclu●e believers children out of the covenant . but i still say , the covenant of grace was no made then universally to a believer and his natural seed nor now , but onely to the elect of them . yet this is not an ex●lusion of any in particular from the covenant of grace , nor an inclusion , but onely a suspension of any determination of either , who are elect , and who not being onely known to god. and therefore to mr. cs. question why are belie●ers children then excluded the covenant ? which injuriously insinuates and i did exclude them , i say , let him answer it that doth so . and th●ugh i grant that our priviledges now are inlarged , in respect of the administration of the covenant , in that the gospel is preached to more nations and more clearly , and confirmed by the bloud of christ &c then before ●hrists comming ( which ●s my meani●g in that speech ) yet it neith●r follows tha● i count that administration of the covenant initiatory seal ( which is mr cs●erms ●erms not mine ) as s●ch to their children was no priviledge to there must be such a like priviledge and not stra●●ned , at least not wholly excluded as that of a like , though mr. c● say not the same , but a like administration of the initiatory covenant-seal , to in-churched believers children now , as mr. c. in his gibberish speaks . and though i say we have nothing in lieu of circumcision , but christ come in the flesh ; yet i do not say , nor need i , that baptism is no priviledge to believers now : but i deny it to be a priviledge in lieu of circumcision , and say that as mr. c. grants it a priviledge to believers , that now they have not that manner of initiation by circumcision , so it is a priviledge to them that they have no manner of initiation in lieu of it . what he saith he hath shew'd before from ez. . , , . is examin'd before . sect. . mr. c. saith , baptism is a seal of the covenant , no bare badge of christianity as some have said , albeit the more judicious of our opposites yeild this , that the covenant of grace is said properly to be sealed in baptism , and that baptism since christs incarnation is the appointed seal of god to such as enter into covenant with him . answ. it is true that i said exam p. . the covenant of grace is sealed properly in baptism , but mr. c. might have taken notice , that . i used not this phrase as mine , but as mr. ms. . that i did yeild this but three lines before with this caution , baptism seals the love of god in some sense properly . . that not long after i say , that in exactness of speech it seals no grace properly , taking it for propriety of speech , but improperly , because metaphorically , as sealing is taken for assuring . . i say as properly , notes propriety of right , or title , or possession , in opposition to anothers , or that which is alien , it seals as much the second as the first grace . and indeed this is my meaning , that though in propriety of speech baptism may not be said to be the seal of the covenant of grace properly , sith it is but a metaphor or term translated from another thing , and so shews not what the thing is , but what in some respect it is like to : yet it may bee thus termed the seal of the covenant of grace properly , that is , as the seal of a deed assutes the thing conveyed in it to him that hath propriety in it , so baptism in that thereby we put on christ , doth signifie to the true believer that he hath union and communion with him , and that he hath thereby a propriety of right to righteousness and life by christ , according to the covenant of grace . but this doth no whit contradict what i have disputed before sect . . against mr. ms. and others doctrine , about sacraments being seals of the covenant of grace . nor did i use the words , that baptism since christs incarnation is the appointed seal of god to such as enter into covenant with him , exam. p. . as mine own expression , but as mr. ms. though i granted the thing meant by it . yet had i so said of my self , it had not been for mr. cs. turn , who will have it a seal of gods covenant to us , whereas those words as i yeild them , rather import it to be our seal whereby we enter into covenant with god , and engage to him , which is the most genuine use of baptism , and in that respect rightly termed a badge of christianity . but mr. c. would prove it a seal of the covenant in another sense , thus . and it appears so , saith he , . in that it agrees in the essentials with circumcision as an initiatory seal , col. , . which speech is ambiguous , and yet in no sense , i conceive , true . it is doubtfull whether he mean that to be the initiatory seal is the essentials of circumcision , and of baptism , but this sense is false : for to be a seal is not essential either to the one or the other , the circumcision of the sichemites was circumcision , though it were no seal to them of the covenant of abraham ; and simon magus his baptism was baptism , though it were no seal to him of the covenant of grace , much less is it of the essence of either to bee initiatory , for if there were or might be another initiatory seal ( as doubtless there might be if god had so appointed it ) yet circumcision and baptism had not been circumcision and baptism , now what may be or not be without the ceasing of the thing to be is but an accident to it , not of the essence of it . besides , to be the initiatory seal of the covenant of grace , doth more truly agree to the spirit of god , then to either of them . or whether he mean , that they agree in those things which are the essentials of each , but that is more palpably false , for it is essential to circumcision that the fore-skin be cut off , but that is not essential to baptism , there may bee baptism without it . nor is there a word col. . . that either expresseth this thing or yeilds any ground for proof of it , as is shewed before by me here § . . as vain is that which follows , whence baptized gentiles are said to be of the circumcision , phil. . and jews said to be baptized , cor. . for neither are gentiles , philip. . . termed the circumcision , because they were baptized , nor the jews said to be baptized , cor. . . because they were circumcised , or because of the agreement of these in the essentials . but the converted gentiles , not all that were baptized ; but onely those , who were true believers are termed the circumcision in opposition to the judaizing teachers termed befor v. . the concision by a figure of speech , termed eutelism , or slighting them in that in which they gloried ; and they are termed the circumcision , because they were truly circumcised before god in heart , and were his people . and the jews cor. . . are said to be baptized no otherwise then the gentiles who believed , who were not circumcised in the flesh , and therefore could not be termed baptized because circumcised ; but christian believers , whether jews or greeks , bond or free , are all said to be baptized , and to be made to drink , because they were baptized with water , and did partake of the lords supper , as cor. . . mr. c. adds more of these toys . hence first instituted for a seal to the circumcised jews ; to shew it was in the essentials of sealing abrahams covenant to them , but the same with circumcision in a manner ; onely as that sealed it to them visibly in christ , as to come , this did it in like sort in reference to christ as come ; that was the seal of the righteousness of abrahams faith , or that whereon his faith acted to righteousness of justification , rom. . . even the promise of grace in christ , rom. . , . with deut. . . wherein . he dictates , without any pretence of proof , that baptism was first instituted to the jews to shew that which he says ; nor is there the least intimation thereof in scripture . . he seems to me to unsay by his limitation [ in a manner ] what he said before , it was the same in the essentials . for that which is the same in the essentials is altogether the same , and not in a manner . . it is false that baptism was the same in the essentials of sealing abrahams covenant to the jews with circumcision : for it was as much in the essentials of sealing abrahams covenant to the jews ( if i may use mr. cs. gibberish ) that circumcision sealed the promise of the land of canaan , gen. . , , , &c. as that it sealed christ to come ; but surely baptism never sealed the promise of the land of canaan . that which i find of the seal of the righteousness of faith , rom. . . is meant of abrahams personal circumcision , and of no other , and therefore is inep●ly applied to prove sameness of sealing of others circumcision and baptism . . i conceive it somewhat inconsiderately said , that circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of abrahams faith , which would imp●y , that it assured that abraham faith was righteous , wherea● the meaning is , that it assured that abraham had righteousness by faith before he was circumcised , as v. . he had asserted . . the other explication is worse , for it i●timates as if the apostle meant that the righ●eou●ness of faith ascribed to abraham is to termed , as that whereon his faith a●ted to righteousness of justification , even the promise of g●ace in christ , whereas the meaning is not that it sealed the righteousness he was to obtain by acting fa●th in a promise , but that it was a seal of the righteousness of faith which he had many years before he was circumcised . mr. c. goes on in the same v●in of dictating thus . hence when christ is called the minister of circumcision , it is thus explained by the end of the sign administred , ●cil . to confirm the promises made unto the fathers , rom ▪ . . act. . . gen. . ● . which speech seems to intimate , as if christ were termed the minister of circumcision , as if he did minister circumcision to that end , to confirm the promises : but that is too absurd for such a man to vent , sith he ministr●d ●ircumcision to none ; and the meaning is plain , that he was the minister of circumcision , that is of the circumcised jews among who●●he preached and lived , as peter is said gal. . . to have had the apostlesh● of the circumcision , that is of the circum●ised jews : and in this sense ●eza , willet , diodati the new annot. dicson , piscator , &c. expound it . now this being promised , it is ea●●e to perc●ive how i●per●inently this ●ext , w●ich mentions not at all baptism , nor any use of circumcision at all , but onely the end of christs ministery among the circumcised is alledged , to prove that baptism ag●ees in the essentials with circumcision as an initiatory seal the texts , act. . . gen . ● . a●eas little t● the purpose , there b●ing no mention of baptism , and they onely proving what is not denied , that circumcision was the token of abrahams●ovenant ●ovenant as little is that w●ich follows , hence the promise premised and then baptism annexed as the seal , act. . . for neither is it proved , that the promise there is the same with abrahams covenant , and how pi●●ifully mr. c. mistakes the meaning of it is shewed before , sect . , . nor a word about baptism as a seal annex●d to the p●omise but an exhortation to repent and be baptized in the name of jesus christ for remission of sins and ●ssurance of the gift of the holy ghost , which are annexed to repentance as much as to baptism what he adds , hence that washing annexed to the word , ephes. . , . but that the word there is the word of promise , much less of abrahams covenant gen. , or that it is mentioned as sealed by baptism , or tha● therein it agrees with circumcision , is not proved . the word is the gospel preached by which men are made believers , and then baptized , and so purified , as act. . . tit. . . act. . . & . . job . . . & . . &c. nor is it any more pertinent which follows . . saith he , it●s a baptizing in the name or covenant-fellowship of god the father , son , and spirit : he having exalted his word above all his name , psal. . . wherein . he seems to expound baptizing , matth. . . into the name of the father , son , and spirit , thus , into the covenant-fellowship ; which is somewhat strange , there being neither there , nor elsewhere ( where the like phrase is used ) any mention of covenant , or covenant fellowship ; and his arguing , god hath exalted his word above all his name , psal. . . ergo , baptizing is in the name and covenant-fellowship of god the father , son , and spirit , is a baculo ad angulum . . but were his exposition allowed , yet what this is to prove that baptism is a seal of the covenant , gen. . or any other covenant , i am yet to divine . is baptizing all one with sealing ? is covenant-fellowship all one with the covenant ? . saith he , it 's a seal of the remission of sins , and therefore of the promise tendering the same , hence joyned , act. . , . act. . but neither is the promise there joyned as a thing sealed by baptism , but as a motive to the duties of repentance and baptism ; nor is the remission of sins mentioned as sealed by baptism , but as a consequent obtained by repentance and baptism as conditions pre-required thereto ; nor is a seal of remission of sins all one with a seal of the covenant . . saith he , the nature of it sheweth the same , it being a gospel sacrament , and that is a visible seal , and the seal is to the covenant ; hence called by the name , act. . . cor. ● . answ. . the term sacrament , as it is applied to the rites of baptism and the lords supper , is no scripture term , nor any other answerable to it in that use ; it 's a term , as i said rightly in my plea for antipaedobaptists , sect . ● . invented by the latine fathers meaning for that use . mr craggs reply in his pamphlet , termed the arraignment and conviction of anaba●tism , that it is used in the twelve tables , in tully pro milone , shews he had a mind to cavil rather then to answer fairly ; nor is the book throughout any other then a fardle of mistakings in logick , and meaning of scripture , and of cavils against my words , mixt with much poetical lightness , and scoffing , to which there 's no need i should return any more then the archangels words , the lord rebuke thee . . nor is there any common nature of ●acraments that i know of delivered or inti●ated in scripture ; either that of the schoolmen out of austin that they are visible signs of invisible grace ; or of the protestants who are terme calvinists , that they are seals of the covenant of grace : and therefore mr. c should first prove that to be of the nature of a gospel sacrament , as the term is used , afore he inferred so much as he doth from it . a seal it is true , is to a covenant sometimes , and sometimes it is to a decree , writ , letter , record of a thing done , and so it is taken rom. . . where abraham , circumcision is not said to be a seal of the covenant wherein something further was promised , but of the righteousness of faith which he had before attained . . act. . . the covenant of grace is not called by the name of a gospel sacrament , but the covenant made with abraham , gen. . is onely termed the covenant of circumcision , because it was signified by it , which was no gospel , but a law rite . the cup in the lords supper , cor. . . is termed the new testament in christs bloud , wherein there seems to be an hypallage and inversion by the words as they are in matth. ch . . . mar. . and by considering that of the bread he spake thus , this is my body , and therefore the words of the cup seem to be most fitly thus placed and expounded , this cup , that is the wine in it , is my bloud , that is signifies my bloud , which is the bloud of the new testament , that is by which the new testament is dedicated as the old was by the bloud of calves and goats , heb. . , , . now herein is the notion rather of a testament then of a covenant , and what is said is said of the cup onely in the lords supper , not of baptism : nor is it named the covenant , but the bloud of the new testament , or the new testament in christs bloud ; nor is the term seal there used , and therefore there is not a word to prove baptism to be in its nature a seal of the covenant of grace , in this or any other of the texts mr. c. alledgeth . i pass over that which he saith , secondly baptism is an initiatory seal , as agreeing with him in the position , that baptism is that which is to be first afore the lords supper , though his phrases be misliked . i agree with him also , that baptism being once administred , needs never be renewed , if done according to christs institution . yet what i said , exam. par . . sect . . seems to me to stand good , notwithstanding any thing here said by mr. c. nor do i think it fit to question whether it be the onely initiatory seal . the th . section contains nothing but dictates without proof , and what is said by way of proof is answered either sect . . &c. in the animadversions on the d. ch . of the first part of mr. cs. book , or in answer to mr. carter , sect . . in which it is shewed , that there is no reference made gen. . to a church covenant distinct from the covenant of grace , nor any command given gen. . , . to a gentile believer and his seed , nor any general law about an initiatory seal never repealed , as mr. c. and others fain . and for his speech he useth , that the hebrew church albeit quà such a political church and national , &c. differ from congregational churches ; yet qua visibilis ecclesia politica & ordinaria ▪ so it was essentially the same with ours ; it seems to intimate , that the church of the hebrews , though as such a political church it was national , yet not as a visible church political and ordinary , as if it were any otherwise a visible political ordinary church then as such a church : and when he saith , as a church visible political ordinary it was essentially the same with ours , he can mean it no otherwise then of the same numerical essence ; for as visible and political the essence is determined to hic & nunc , an universal generical or specifical church is not visible and political . but that is false , sith if the persons be not the same , they cannot have the same numerical essence : nor can he mean it , that it is essentially the same with ours as visible in the same form of government , for then he must make ours pontificial ; nor in the same title to church-membership , for then he must make ours national : nor can he avoid it if he will maintain this plea , that the jewish church was essentially the same with ours , and as their infants were circumcised as children of churchmembers , in a church visible , political , ordinary , which was national , so ours upon the same reason are to bee baptized , but that hee must set up a national church by natural generation , nor can they of n. e justifie their way of excluding such children from the lords supper for ignorance , if they may for scandal . the old objection , which mr. c. falsly terms cavil touching covenant females , is not yet answered , nor ever will be , it will still infringe this universal proposition , all that are in covenant with reference to church covenant are to have the initiatory seal for a time , and so will also that of jobs family , which why it should not be counted a visible political ordinary church , as well as abrahams house in his time i see not , and if none are to be baptized but such as are in an ordinary visible political church to abide , how can they of n. e. baptize the infants of such church-members , as whether in n. e. or old do not abide , but are quickly dissolved as we see by experience ? and if none but those who are in the covenant of grace in reference to church covenant are to be baptized , but though believers because in rome or india they are not a formed matter of a political visible church but they are as materia informis , they are quoad homines actually without , and not within any political visible church , how was the eunuch baptized acts ? and if the covenant of grace nakedly considered giveth a person which is actually in it , a remote right to the initiatory seal , but it doth not give an immediate right thereto ▪ for so the covenant of grace as invested with church covenant onely giveth this proximate right to that seal god being the god of order , will have that his church seal to be attained in a way of order ; as of old strangers might not be circumcised , but with some submission to that church order explicitely or implicitely , and so now , and the order be as mr. c in the th . section determines , to be observed of communion in breaking bread after they were baptized , how do those of n. e. admit to brea●ing of bread , those who who onely as born in a parish were baptized in infancy , without another baptism ? that either matth. . , . or any where else the orderly and ordinary dispensation of the seal is committed to the visible church . is more then i finde ; nor do i know it necessary to right order that believers must be of a particular visible church afore they be baptized . if catechumini in covenant and visible church estate might bee hindered from baptism for trial for a time , much more should infants of whom we have no knowledge concerning their future or present estate , be in prudence put off from baptism till there be some trial of th●m , if their right were , as mr. c. doth , though falsly imagine . sect. . mr. c. speaks thus , and because in this particular some stress of the main case is put , . i shall endeavour yet fu●ther to confi●m it , that covenan● interest carrieth a main stroak in point of application of that seal , to persons interested therein , and not uncapable thereof in any bodily respect . answ. this proposition being that in which some stress , or as i conceive , the whole stress of the main case is put , should have been delivered more clearly , and confirmed more fully , but as now it is , it is delivered ambiguously , and so is fitter to delude a reader then to instruct him . that seal which was last mentioned was baptism , but the proofs following shew that he meant it of circumcision , and as if there were the same reason of circumcision and of baptism ( which neither he nor any paedobaptist ever proved ) what is said of circumcision is by him meant of baptism , and so the reader merely mocked . the application of baptism or circumcision may either refer to gods appl●ing it by way of command , or mans by way of administration , and in this i think mr. cs. speeches are delusory , sometimes meant of gods application by way of command , and sometimes of the administrators act in circumcising or baptizing . the phrase of carrying the main stroak is likewise ambiguous , and so delusory , it being uncertain whether it carry the main stroke with god as his motive to appoint it , or with the administratour as his rule and warrant to do it . and when he terms it the main stroak , it had been requisite hee should tell whether there be not some other thing which carries a stroak if not the main , yet so great , as that without it the application of the seal is not warrantable , as profession of faith by the person to whom it is to bee applied . hee might have understood by my examen , which he had to answer , that i took it a great fault in mr. m. that hee did not more distinctly tell what hee meant by the covenant , being in covenant , which hee speaks of infants of believers . and sure if mr. c. had meant to deal rightly , as one that sought truth , and to shew my errour , he should have cleared what covenant hee meant inward or outward , the covenant of gospel grace purely delivered , or the mixt covenant made with abraham gen. . what the church covenant is , how the covenant of grace is invested with it , when a church is a political visible body , how a church covenant is the form of it , who and what persons and how they are interested in it , whether by gods promise , their own faith or profession or anothers , or by the churches admission . all which , or at least many of them , are requisite to bee distinctly declared , that a reader may clearly understand his meaning , and so examine his proof . and whether the exception of incapacity in any bodily respect , be meant onely because of the females circumcision , or thereby infants are excepted from baptism , who have not the use of their tongues to profess the faith of christ , and are not well able to brook that dipping or plunging ( which for all mr. cs. scriblings , is and will be found the onely way of baptizing appointed by christ ) is uncertain . this were a sufficient reason for me to answer no further to this proposition , but to wait till his bill be mended yet i shall examine his proofs of this , which should be his meaning , if he spake to his purpose ; that the interest which a person though an infant hath to the covenant of grace , in that he is a believers child by vertue of the promise of god to a believer and his seed , when that believer is a member of a visible political church by church covenant explicit or implicit , is a sufficient warrant to that visible political church to admit , and to the elder to baptize that infant without any other revelation of god , or profession of the infant . let 's now see what mr. c. brings for proof of this . first , saith he , then it is the ground-work given to the general law about an initiatory covenant duty , scil . application of some injoyned initiatory seal , and therefore must be of like force in the particular branches and ways of such initiatory sealing , as circumcision and baptizing . answ. such a general law is a mere fiction , and what is meant by the ground-work of it is uncertain . gen. . , . is no other law but about circumcision , the word rendred [ therefore ] may bee otherwise translated , if it were the onely reading yet the sense might be this , because i make this covenant thou shalt therefore circumcise thy males to keep it in remembrance , or to assure thee and thy posterity that i will perform it . but that there is any such intimation as if the persons circumcised were circumcised as and for their interest in that covenant is a mere dream often refuted by mee , much more is it a dotage to assert , that according to a persons interest in that covenant or a part of it , as mr. c. conceives , so they have right to baptism in the christian church . secondly , saith mr. c. the covenant in such sort invested with church covenant , now it is the form of a political visible church body ; giving therefore , both a church-being as i may say , as natural forms do a natural being , and withall the priviledge of a member of such a church-body , suitable to its memberly estate , as if this of the church initiatory seal , even to the least member thereof , although they are not yet so perfect in all actual energy of compleat members , and so neither in all actual priviledges of such compleat members . i suppose what ever others deny this way , yet our opposites do not deny , that church-covenant explicit or implicit is the form of a visible political church as such , so that till that bee , they are not so incorporated as to bee fit for church dispensations , or acts of peculiar church power over each other , more then over others , over whom they can have no power , unless they had given explicit or implicit consent thereto : as reason will evince . answ. this reason as i conceive goes upon these suppositions , which mr. c. conceives will not be denied . . that there is a church-covenant over and besides gods covenant of gospel grace , and mans believing and professing of faith in him through jesus christ , whereby the members of a visible political church do engage themselves to walk together in christian communion , and to submit to their rulers , and to each other in the lord. now such a church covenant , though i confess it may be according to prudence at some times and in some cases usefull to keep persons , who otherwise would bee unsetled , in a fixed estate of communion , yet i find not any example of such a church covenant in the old or new testament , and in some cases it may insnare mens consciences more then should be . . that the covenant of grace , whether gods promise to us or ours to god invested with church covenant , that is , as i conceive mr. cs. meaning to be , together with it , is the form of a visible political church , which gives it the being of such a church , as such , so that till that be they are not so incorporated as to be fit for church dispensations , or church power . in which i conceive are many mistakes . . that the sacraments are seals , or church dispensations are committed to the church , which are not committed to the church , which consists of men and women , but to the guides and over-seers of it . . that church power , or as mr. cotton in his treatise of the keyes of the church , the power of the keyes is committed or given to the church ; in which are mistakes that either censures ecclesiastical , or as the schoolmen and canonists term it , the power of ordination and jurisdiction ecclesiastical are meant by the keyes , matth. ● . . or that they were given to peter as representing the church : the scripture doth no where commit church dispensations or power to the church , but to the guides , and overseers and rulers of the church for the church . that till a company of believers be a visible poli●ical church , they are not fit for church dispensations or censures : which i conceive not true , there being examples in scripture of their breaking bread together , acts . who were not such a political visible church of fixed members under fixed officers united by church covenant , as mr. c. describes . nor were christ and his apostles such a church when first they did break bread . nor did christ appoint baptism matth. . . to be onely in and with such a church , nor do the exampls acts . or . or or or . intimate any such condition , but rather the contrary . . that the covenant of grace with a church covenant fore mentioned , give the being of such a visible church political . but the covenant of grace of it self doth not give any actual being , it is a promise of something future , and therefore puts nothing in actual being extra causas , but assures it shall bee by some cause in act , which in this thi●g is the calling of god , from which the church and each member have their being as from the efficient , from faith in the heart as the form of the invisible church and each member , from profession of faith as the form of the visible church and each member , as ames . med. th. lib. . cap. . sect. . that which makes it political is the union under officers and lawes , without a church covenant it is a political visible church , if there bee but at present an union or conjunction in the same profession of christian faith under officers and lawes of a number of christians they are a church visible political , though they should be dissolved the next hour , and though they enter into no covenant of church-fellowship or subjection for the future , and therefore church covenant is neither of the form of such a true church , nor ( as mr. weld in answer to mr. rathbard ) of a pure church , but it is a good means in prudence to conserve a church so constituted , that they may not divide and scatter from each other , but may continue in communion . . that by this incorporating they have peculiar church power over each other , and without tht church covenant they can have no power . but neither do i conceive this true . for the power whi●h christians have is to reprove , admonish , censure , shun society , chuse officers , reject false teachers , &c. this power they have by the laws of christ , without a church covenant . . that church dispensations and acts of peculiar church power are limited to those particular persons who joyn with us by church covenant . but this i conceive not right nor agreeable to such scriptures as these , cor. . . & . . & . . . it is supposed by mr. c. that the covenant with church covenant gives the priviledge of a member of such a church body suitable to its memberly estate , as is this of the church initiatory seal . but in this sure mr. c. is quite out and besides their own practise , who do not give the initiatory seal after they are members by church covenant , but baptize them or suppose them baptized in infancy , and then joyn them us members by church covenant ; now if church covenant did give the priviledge of the initiatory seal , then they should first enter into church covenant , and then have the initiatory seal or be baptized . . it is supposed by mr. c. that there are such little churchmembers by such a covenant as are to have the priviledge of the initiatory seal though they be not compleat members , so as to have the actual priviledge of the after seal , and other church power . but sure the scripture acknowledgeth in the christian church no members , but what partake of the lords supper as well as baptism ( as is manifest from cor. . . cor. . . ) and have church power as others of their sex and rank . now all these suppositions though they were granted ( except the last ) would not prove the thing mr. c. aims at , and that which he makes the main reason from whence he would infer the conclusion , namely , the covenant with church covenant gives being and priviledge of the initiatory seal makes against him , infants making no such church covenant , nor according to their own discipline doth their parents church covenant serve instead of the childs , sith afore the child can bee admitted to communion of breaking of bread , and other power of a member , and bee taken for a member , hee must himself enter into church covenant . thirdly , saith mr. c even in doubtfull cases , where the extent of the command is questionable , yet interest in the covenant casts the scoals . as for instance , in strangers which proved religious , albeit not of their family servants , and so under the law , gen. . , . they might be circumcised if they desired other church ordinances , &c. yet were they else free , unless in such a case of their own desire that way , exod. . end . hence cornelius a godly gentile , living near the jews yet not circumcised , acts. . , , , . compared with chap , , , . yea but if the command bound them , why were they circumcised ? suppose exod. . gave some liberty to the church guides that way , for such strangers as more usually dwelt amongst them ; yet such as kings . , , . which came from far , in a mere transient way , for some temporary religious worship at the temple , as that proselyted eunuch acts . . those were surely circumcised , else how admitted to temple worship , since that was counted an abomination , for any other so much as to come there , acts . . and if circumcised at any time by any of the godly church guides consent , what gave them right to it ? not the commandment , gen. . , , . no nor that exod. . what was that to an eunuchs case and others which never sojourned with them for any space ? were they then unlawfully circumcised ? no verily , no whisper of that in scripture ; god allowed of that passage in solomons prayer , touching the strangers temple service , kin. . & . explained . it was then their external interest in gods covenant , which gave rise to that application of the seal , and not the commandment ; contrary to what some say , that not the covenant , but the commandment of god onely , was the ground of circumcision . answ. that which i said in my exercit. p. . hence i gather , first , that the right to evangelical promises , was not the adequate reason of circumcising these or those , but gods prceept as is expressed gen. . . gen. . . secondly , that those terms are not convertible [ federate and to be signed ] and in my examen , p. . that nothing but gods will manifest in his institution can be a warrant about circumcision , p. . that the jews received circumcision as appointed them from god , under this formal reason , and no other , i have shewed before to have been acknowledged by mr. m. in his defence ; p. . when he said , the command is the cause of the existence of the duty : and p. . the formal reason of their being circumcised was the command of god. nor is it at all infringed by this reasoning of mr. c. those that were not bound without their desire to eat the passeover , and so not to be circumcised , yet if they would eat the passeover they were bound by an express command to be circumcised , exod. . , . whether their sojourning was constant , or for a time onely , which likely was the case of the eunuch , act. . who it 's probable was circumcised , because there is no mention of the baptizing any uncircumcised till cornelius , though there be no certainty whether the eunuch were a jew by birth , or a proselyte of the gentiles , or whether he formerly had his constant abode among the jews , either in palaestina , or elsewhere , or whether then he did sojourn among the jews then in aethiopia . but if he were a meer proselyte of the gate , yet he might come to the temple into the court of the gentiles to worship , as all acknowledge . dr. lightfoot of the temple service , ch . . mr. mede diatr . on act. . . &c. and therefore there is no proof from hence , that a person was circumcised by reason of the covenant , and not of the command : yea , though cornelius were in the covenant of grace , and had external covenant interest , in that he was known to worship the true god , yet was he not by reason thereof bound by god , or taken by the jews as one that was bound to be circumcised , or ever blamed for want of it ; which shews that neither was the covenant interest indeed , nor taken by the jews for the warrant or rule , or reason of circumcising , but the command of god. fourthly ( saith mr. c. ) it appears from the nature of an initiatory seal of the covenant , which must be as large as the covenant , and so reach all the parties comprehended actually by vertue of covenant , according as such children are , as before declared : especially , since it is the seal of gods people and visible church as before shewed , given first for the church , in giving of pastours and teachers onely to the church , which alone can administer the seals in ordinary dispensations , matth. . end , and giving them withall to the church , as from her to be dispensed by her officers , to such as desire the same . answ. in stead of proofs here is a heap of dictates , . that baptism is the initiatory seal of the covenant in its nature . . that it must be as large as the covenant . . that pastours and teachers given onely to the church can alone administer the seals in ordinary dispensations , matth. . , . . that the seals are given to the church , as from her to be dispensed by her officers , to such as desire the same . none of which will be yeelded by me , without better proof then i yet meet with . sure matth. . , . yeelds no proof for any of them . it proves baptism was to be administred by the apostles , not every seal by church officers . he goes on , now god people are known , either by actual profession and confession of their own , as adults are ; or by gods promise and by parents avouching god as theirs in covenant and their childrens , gen. . , . thou shalt do thus , and thus , and thy seed also ; to which he submitteth afterwards , and so his also with him and after him . answ. that gods people are known by gods promise , and by parents avouching god as theirs in covenant , and their childrens , is another dictate , which mr. c. brings not a shew of proof for out of the new testament ; nor doth that which he brings from gen. . , . prove it concerning the infants of the jewish church . for though there be a command to abraham and his posterity to circumcise , and this is termed keeping gods covenant , yet there is not a word of parents profession , or gods promise as making known who are gods people , no not in the jewish church , in which there were many to whom god made no promise , nor parents avouched for them , who were known as gods people by vertue of gods taking the whole nation for his church , even when the kings and people were idolaters . but if it were true that it were as mr. c. would , this proves nothing concerning the people of god in the christian church , in which none are known to be gods people , but by their own confession of saith . but mr. c. adds , besides the main in the initiatory seal to be firstly and properly attended , as it is a covenant and church seal is covenant and church interest . hence called by the name of covenant , when yet it is but a sacramental sign and seal of it , gen. . . act. . . that is first h●ld out and sealed , as the convoy of all other desired good , pet. . . but especially in that initiatory seal the signation of the covenant , is of more considerable weight , then the external symbole , ceremony and circumstance : either of cutting or washing absolutely or relatively considered . if washing of a person in the name of the trinity , be a clearer and easier symbole then that of cutting the flesh , yet not of such weight as is the covenant sealed both by the one and the other . and to shew that the covenant is the main thing considerable therein ; hence it is that the covenant is first propounded as the ground-work of the commandment it self , as of circumcision , so of baptism , and much more of the application of either , to any in covenant , gen. . , , . therefore , scil . because i have said i will be your god , i command you to do thus and thus ; not because i have commanded you , that i therefore promise to do this for you ; or do you thus and thus at my command , and then on , therefore i will do so and so for you . answ , after the rest of his dictates , he here tels us , the main in the initiatory seal to be attended is the covenant , which i grant ; but deny that it follows therefore , that the rule which the administrator is to observe , according to which he is to administer it , is the persons interest in the covenant , so as that he must administer it to all and onely those who are in covenant , or to whom the prom●se is made by god. for , besides the many reasons to the contrary , even concerning circumcision before given , mr. cs. own reason is against him . for if the main in the initiatory seal to be firstly and properly attended as it is a covenant and church seal , is covenant and church interest , and therefore infants in covenant to be circumcised and baptized ; by the same reason infants in covenant are to be admitted to the passeover , and to have the lords supper , sith they are seals , they are covenant and church seals , infants have covenant and church interest , in the initiatory seal these things are to be attended as it is a covenant and church seal , and therefore in every covenant and church seal as well as the initiatory . as for what he saith about gen. . , , . though i have sundry times observed that the reading [ v. . therefore ] is not necessary ; yet omitting that exception , i grant what he saith of that text , but withal note , . that the command is inferred not onely from the promise to be their god , but also from the promise of the land of canaan , v. . and therefore it might as well follow , they to whom god will give the land of canaan are to have the initiatory seal , as that they to whom he promiseth to be god. . that which is said gen. . , , . is onely of circumcision . . if it were granted that the covenant is the groundwork of the command it self , as of circumcision so of baptism , yet it follows not , much more of the application of either to any in covenant . for though the covenant were gods reason , why he would appoint circumcision , yet that 's no rule to us , but his command onely ; a reason of the will of the commander is not always a direction about the command , certainly not about each point in the command , as mat. . . it follows not , all power is given to me , therefore preach and baptize all over whom power is given to me . besides , in this very thing the covenant could be no direction whom to circumcise , ordinarily , sith ordinarily the circumciser could not know to whom in particular the promises , whether evangelical , or domestical , did belong , when they were to circumcise them . yea , though abraham knew ishmael had no covenant interest ▪ there being no promise made to him in it , but the contrary declared , gen . , , . yet he was to circumcise him and did so . the like may be said of esau and others . mr. c. adds . so the gospel prophesie and promise is prefaced and put in the preamble to that injunction of their baptism , by john , luk. . , , , , &c. answ. it is true that the prophesie of john baptists comming and work , and of christs comming , isa. . , , . ( which i acknowledge to be a gospel promise ) are set down as the warrant of johns preaching the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins ; but this doth no● prove that this was his rule in baptizing , to baptize every one , even infants , and those onely who had this interest in the covenant of grace , that to them and each of them god promised remission of sins . yea , sith johns baptism is termed the baptism of repentance , it is clear he required repentance of the baptized as the antecedent to his baptism , and therefore not barely such covenant interest as mr. c. ascribes to all infants of believers onely in profession . he goes on thus . hence the gospel , and so the covenant of grace , held out as grounding baptism , act. . , . and childrens covenant right , was held out as one branch of that gospel , as we proved ; and from the same principle , that they were also to be sealed by baptism ; yea , albeit the apostles urged repentance , yet the seal is propounded as to the promise ; peter said , be baptized , for the promise is to you : and this was no meer moral motive , but a scriptural groundword inforcing it , as it was a scriptural groundwork virtually injoyning and requiring them to repent , for the promise is to you . answ. [ hence ] should , if there were any good sence in mr. cs. speech , refer to something precedent , from whence that which he speaks is derived , which i discern not , but a dark way of dictating , fitting such as love to puzzle , not to inform a reader . it is before largely shewed , that neither childrens covenant right external from parents faith hath been held out by mr. c. as one branch of the gospel , sect . . of this part of my review , nor that barely from this principle they were to be baptized ; but that repentance in each person to be baptized is made the antecedent to baptism , sect . , , and elsewhere . that peter said not as mr. c. sets down his words , is apparent from the text act. . , . that the promise is urged as a motive to those to whom peter spake to do their duty of repenting , and being baptized , is so plain , as that dr. thamas goodwin upon the reading the first part of my review , sect . . did acknowledge it , and it is proved so sect . . here and elsewhere : nor doth mr. c. here or elsewhere shew it to be any other scripture groundwork then as a motive to the baptized each of them first to repent , and then to be baptized , no rule by which the baptizer is to administer it , or the baptized to claim it as his right without his personal repentance , and declaration of his faith in christ into whose name he is to be baptized . he adds . so act. . peter saith , there is no let to their baptism ; and thereof he maketh the visibility of that covenant grace , although common to reprobates also in those first times , his groundwork ; gathering thereby , that they were not as formerly prophane , unclean , and outlaries from the covenant , as ephes. . , . but clean and nigh as they themselves were . ans. it is true there was no let to cornelius his baptism , and those other who were with him , yet not meerly because of their extraordinary gifts , but because those gifts were manifested by their glorifying god , and as may be gathered from act. . , . their glorifying god contained expressions of faith in christ and repentance , which whosoever should do as they did , it is without doubt they should be baptized . but mr. cs. covenant interest of infants , who make no shews of faith and repentance as they did act. . . yeelds no warrant for their baptism . he goes on , washing of regeneration is not grounded on any thing in us or without us , so much as on gods grace , and so covenant favour , tit. . . answ. it is true , this is the inward impulsive cause why god regenerates ; but gods grace , and covenant favour is no rule to a minister to baptize by , sith it is an unknown thing , which agrees not with the property of a rule . hence also ( saith mr. c. ) by baptism persons are not sealed into any thing in them so much as into the name of the father , son , and spirit , even into the covenant name of grace , whereby he is known , and into covenant fellowship with the blessed trinity , to which every baptized person , prove he elect or reprobate , yet is thus externally sealed . answ. the terming of baptizing sealing , and the name of the father , son , and spirit , the covenant name of grace , are mr. cs. new-minted phrases ; if this be his meaning , that every person rightly baptized , whether he be elect or reprobate , is sealed by god , that is in baptism assured of fellowship with the trinity according to the new covenant of gospel grace , i deny it ; if onely that he professeth his communion to be with them , i grant it ; but this proves not that covenant interest of infants , who make no such profession , intitles them to baptism . again , saith he , that fellowship with christ , as head of the visible church by the spirit in the judgement of verity or charity such ; it is all but covenant grace and blessing . answ. be it so : yet what this is to prove such fellowship to be a rule to baptize infants , i see not . of old ( saith mr. c. ) the consequent cause of the seal was grace in them and theirs ; but the antecedent cause was gods covenant grace to them and on them , gen. . , , . & deut. . . and so now , that part of abrahams covenant was not then appliable to infants , scil . walk before me , &c. but yet that was then appliable ; i will be their god , i will circumcise their hearts , and that sufficed them , as deut. . the analogy holds now . answ. what may be said to be a consequent cause , i do not yet conceive , the rule of logick i have learned is , that the cause is before the effect : yet what ever it be mr. c. means , though it might suffice for circumcision , it doth not for baptism ; nor is that to be regulated by analogy of circumcision , as is shewed in the second part of this review , sect . , . yet again , in a word , the seal is a seal not of nor to the commandment , but covenant ; this therefore is the main and principal in the application of it . answ. if baptism be a seal , it seems to me not a seal of or to the commandment or covenant , but the profession of the baptized ; and therefore this is the main and principal in the application of it . yet more , it is the covenant which hath the main instrumental force , in the fruit of the initiatory seal and the application of it , ephes. . . . and why shall not the external interest in the covenant , have chief influence into the external interest , as well of the application of the initiatory seal ? answ. i understand not what fruit of the initiatory seal he means , nor what is the external interest in the covenant ; the word , ephes. . . . is meant of the word preached , which is not instrumental to infants for any santification or cleansing their meant . the want of gods appointment is the reason of not applying baptism to infants . once more , by external interest in the covenant , persons so interested come to have external interest , at least to the final causes of baptism , as covenant mercy and blessing , the spirit , christ resurrection , &c. tit. , . and . cor , . , . . pet. . . and therefore as well so farre inrighted in the initiatory seal of it , whether they are adult or infants . answ. . external interest in the covenant , external interest in the final causes of baptism , are notions i understand not . . covenant mercy and blessing , the spirit , christs resurrection , are not final cause of baptism , for then when the end of baptism is attained , they should be effects of baptism , for the end in intention , is the effect in execution ; but this is too absurd . . an inrighting so far in the initiatory seal , which intimates a man may have an inrighting so far to such a measure and no further , is another new notion i understand not . . if mr. cs. antecedent had sense or truth , yet the consequence is to be denied , no other interest external is inrighting to baptism , but that which is according to the institution , matth. . . discipleship , or profession of faith . to the th . sect. i answer by denying that the covenant priviledge of grace evangelical , hath such distinction of principal and less principal counter parties , as mr. means c. ( unless he understand by christ the principal , and the elect and true believers the less principal , as gal. . . ) and that the covenant priviledges of grace evangelical belong to any other then the elect : yet i grant the covenant gen. . and many priviledges of divine grace which were not evangelical , did belong to many of the israelites , who made no good use thereof . the covenant evangelical was never sealed personally to ishmael . that which mr. c. dictates without proof about the everlasting covenant , and the initial seal in its generical nature , is answered here sect . . and the point about the ordinance of infants visible churchmembership unrepealed sect . , &c. and the non-inclusion of infants matth. . . under the term nation is shewed there , and in the second part of this review sect . . the position of mr. cs. sect . . may be granted , though acts . , . make nothing for it . sect. . mr. c. proves nothing but that parents were to take care that their children were circumcised ; that which he saith of the children begotten on prohibited women , ezra . . and timothy begotten on a jewish woman by a grecian husband , that they were circumcised , act. . , , . proves this , that the children , who were not of the congregation of israel , and so no visible churchmembers were to be circumcised , nor had covenant interest . the case controverted cor. . . was onely concerning the persons unequally yoked , not concerning their children . acts . , . is not a word to prove parents are to take care of the infants baptism , nor gen. . . with pet. . . there being not an infant in the ark , nor typical baptism being a rule concerning formal baptism of christians ; if it were , masters must take care to baptize their house , yea their married children though as prophane as cham , and their wives with them . how impertinently cor. . . is alledged , is shewed in the second part of this review sect . . what mr. c. observes out of exod. . , , . that a stranger was not to eate the passeover , except all his males were circumcised ; if it be right , yet it makes nothing for proof of parents duty to see their infants baptized , there being no such institution about baptism and the lords supper , as was about circumcision and the passeover . it is granted that the words [ exod. . . ] will keep the passeover to the lord ] are meant onely of an adult person , yet it is true also , which i say in my examen part . . sect . . that males not come to years of discretion fit to receive the lords supper were to eat the passeover , and consequently ( if mr. cs. dictates were of any of any validity ) parents should see they eate lords supper . i grant , that god made abraham gen. . . a common person as well in reference to us inchurched gentiles , as to the inchurched jewes and proselytes in point of evangelical covenant interest , but that hee should be so made in point of ingagement from covenant interest , unto the receiving of the initiatory seal by parents and children , gen. . , , , , . is but mr. cs. fancy sufficiently refuted by this , that if it were true , then we gentiles are bound to circumcise our infants , ( which is the onely initiatory seal there meant ) contrary to acts . . gal. . , . that which is true of abraham and his natural seed , must be applied to abrahams spiritual seed , true believers of the gentiles and their natural seed ; is but mr. cs. vain dream dictated without proof . my grant in my examen part . . sect . . pag. . ( as the words shew ) was not that children might be baptized vertually in their parents in exact speech , so as to receive it in their own persons , but onely in that sense in which mr. m. said women were circumcised vertually in the males , yet so as they might not be circumcised in their own persons : which being considered , my words yeild mr. c. no advantage . to the th . section i grant , that matth. . . ties not the baptizer to know the baptized to be internally and savingly interested in the covenant : but that it sufficeth , that that sort or species of infants , scil . such like infants are in deed and truth of christs kingdome , i utterly deny . for then any infant in the world might be baptized , because he is of that sort or species of infants , scil . such like infants are in deed and truth of christs kingdome . dare any say of no unbelievers infants is christs kingdome ? however it is true of belivers though not inchurched , and yet mr. c. denies the right of the child , if the parent be not inchurched . mr. cs. reason are vain , neither is our lord christs saying , luk. . . any rule to us about baptizing ; nor was the rule of circumcising infants that some of that sort had the internal saving interest and efficacy of this promise , i will be the god of thy seed , but the command of god , without which it is better to exclude all infants , then upon our own heads to bring on our selves the guilt of will-worship by taking them in . which must of necessity fall on infant baptizers after mr. cs. rule . for christs appointment was to baptize infants no otherwise then persons of years . there is no difference in the words matth , . . between the reason of baptizing one and the other . but persons of years were not to be baptized by mr. cs. rule , in that they are of that sort or species of persons , scil . such like persons are in deed and in truth of christs kingdome , but onely upon their own discipleship or profession of faith , as the practise thoroughout the acts of the apostles shews : therefore neither are believers children to bee baptized after any other rule . and yet infants are no more left in the wide wilderness , or any whit less folded up in the church by their non-baptizing , then they are by their baptism . if they of n. e. do fold them up in the church , why do they keep them from church-communion till they bee made members by church-covenant ? if it be better who happily have not so peculiar a title thereto , be folded up in the church , then that one of such lambs be left out in the wide wilderness , are not they guilty of too much strictness in leaving out of the church in the wide wilderness , many weak lambs who are weak in faith , because they do not satisfie the church in the declaration of their experiences ? but this is the guise of men who are strict in their own inventions , as in church-covenant , declaration of experiences for admission to church-communion , &c. to bee loose about gods commands , as this of baptizing disciples of christ is . enough in answer to these cloudy dictates of mr. c. sect . lxxxvi . the th . and th . chapters of mr. rutherfords first part of the covenant , are examined ; and found to make nothing for infant baptism . after the finishing the most of this part of the review , my learned and godly brother mr. john skynner of weston in herefordshire ( who hath written a solid treatise against infant baptism , entituled , corruption corrected , in answer to one mr. woodward ) acquainted me that mr. rutherford had written for infant baptism in a book of his of the covenant of grace part . . chap. , which having read , i found ( as he foretold me no more strength then others had brought for it , and it is written rather like a sermon then a scholastique dispute , and with so many unproved dictates , such a number of obscure expressions , ( many of which i cannot discern good sense in , so that they have need rather of construction then resur●tion ) so many incoherencies and inconsequences , as that i do not jhdge it worth while to answer him . yet because of the name of the man , and my words sect . . of the d . part of this review , i shall add some animadversions on those two chapters . ch. . he tels us , that 〈◊〉 are in covenant with god externally by visible profession , which i 〈◊〉 , if meant of their own personal profession ; but deny , . that th●● promise gen. . . i will bee thy god and the god of thy seed , is a tacit and implicit profession , or makes ( of it self ) parties in covenant externally . . that infants born of covenanted parents are in covenant with god , because they are born of such parents as are in covenant with god , gen. . . what is said deut. . . deut. . . is meant onely of the people of israel , as the very words [ brought out of egypt as it is this day ] shew ; nor is there a word in those verses , of their being in covenant with god because born of such parents , but of gods special choise of that people . it is false which he saith that the apostle acts . . speaks in the very terms and words of the covenant , gen. . . it is true rather , that hee speaks in never a term or word there used . it is as false that the apostle commanded any other to be baptized acts . . then whom he commanded to repent . did he not presume that anabaptists , as hee terms us , were very blockheads , hee would not not presume , that wee should believe his vain dictates , when the very copulative term shews the same are spoken to in one and the other command , and the words being an answer to the question v. . shew they are directed to those who spake v. . and the word [ you ] used in the precept of baptizing contains the same with those who were to receive remission of sins , and the gift of the holy ghost , and are distinct from their children , v. . and therefore cannot be meant of their children , much less of their infant children , whom it had been ridiculous for peter to have commanded to be baptized . how pertinent the answer had been as i expounded it , is often shewed before ; though their children crucified not the lord jesus , nor were concerned either in the evil of their parents , who crucified the lord of glory , nor in the good of their repentance more then stones ; yet i know no anabaptists whose grounds infer , that the jews children who crucified christ were not visibly in covenant with their parents , not capable of actual hearing the word , mourning for and repenting of their sins , as zach. . . matth. . , , . nor concerned either in the evil of their parents , nor in the good of their repentance more then stones ; nor do i conceive it true that the opposites of infant baptism say , that covenant promises are no more made to children , then to stones ; but that these are vile calumnies of mr. rutherford , unfit for such a man as he is taken to be . how isa. . , . & . , . psal. . . revel . . . isa. . , , , . mal. . . psal. . , . & . , , , . are to be understood of persons adult onely , and yet infants not cut off from the covenant , is shewed review part . . sect . . and elsewhere . it is not contrary to acts . . to say , that covenant promises are not to the children of believers , and yet it hath been fulfilled , that the gentiles and heathen are become the lords people . what he saith out of exod. . . psal. , . & . . deut. ▪ is answered here sect . . , . it is not true that paul , rom. . . saith the same of the jews root and branches , fathers and children , which he saith cor. . . of the unbelieving yoke fellowes sanctification in the yoke fellow , and their childrens holiness . nor is it true , that the same covenant which was made with abraham , gen. . . was made with the corinthians , cor. . . or any of the texts he cites , there being none of them that promise , that god would bee a god to them and their seed . his allegations from heb. . . heb. . , , , , , , . are shewed to bee frivolous here , sect . . and elsewhere . what he talks of a father having no warrant to offer the covenant of grace to one pagan more then another , if children be not in covenant , is vain , the offer of the covenant of grace being nothing else but the preaching of the gospel , which is to be to all , mark . . whether in covenant or no. the allegation that the promise gen. . . is made onely to the elect , rom. . . is a plain proof of this position , that the natural children of abraham , and consequently believers children now , except elected , have not that promise made to them , and therefore are not in covenant by gods act of promise to them , which doctrine mr. rutherford himself taught in his apologetical . exercit . . c. . p. . when he said ; the elect alone are said in scriptures federate , sons and heirs of promise , rom. . . and to christ alone the prince , and leading heir , are the promises made , gal. . . psal. . , . in him , to his seed and children given to him of the father , heb. . . nor can he here deny , that the sons of the promise are the chosen of god , in whom the word takes effect . which if true , then it is most false , that a believers seed not chosen is in covenant with god , by vertue of that promise gen. . . and his allegation of it , and acts . ● . and other places for baptism of believers infants , whether elect or not , as having that promise made by god to them ; is manifestly impertinent . nevertheless we need not say , that there are none covenanted with god but the chosen under the new testament , or that there is no such thing as an external visible covenanting with god under the new testament : but say , that no infant doth visibly externally covenant with god , so as thereby to be entitled to baptism , sith no persons are to bee baptized by christs appointment , but such as in their own persons do profess the saith . the priviledges mentioned rom. . , . & . . mr. rutherford himself appropriates to the jews , due right of presbyteries ch . . sect . . pag. . what he saith pag. , , , . is all answered before , chiefly in answer to mr. blake , review par . . sect . , or here , sect . , , . or in answer to mr. baxter and mr. marshal . and if it were not , yet the reader may discern its impertinency , sith the thing hee endeavours to prove , is an external visible covenanting in the new testament ( which can be onely on mans part ) and being in covenant thereupon , and right to baptism , and is not denied , whereas his position he should prove is , that the covenant choise on gods part is extended to the seed of believers as such in the new testament , p. . his words pag. . they cannot be baptized but as in covenant with god , are true , if meant of being in covenant by their profession externally : but so infants are excluded ; if of gods covenanting or promise , are false , and so are those other words , we are the same way in covenant as the jews were , and our visible church now , and the visible church then are of the same constitution ▪ i call not the covenant gen. . civil , but mixt , containing some promises civil , some spiritual , or rather the same promis●s , in one sense spiritual , in another civil . i doubt not to say the covenant to adam and the jews at mount sinai were two covenants of works , a third in the gospel i know not . the covenant with david , psal. . sam. . so far as it was evangelical , was the same with that to abraham , gen. . and adam gen. . . as they were evangelical , but so far as it was oeconomical , it was different from both , and another covenant then those to adam , abraham , or the jews at mount sinai : the promise of working miracles , was not the evangelical covenant of grace , but that of remission of sins and eternal life to the repenting believers , under which was john baptist as well as the apostles , was it : yet i know no absurdity to say , the apostles were both under the covenant of grace with john baptist , and another covenant mark . , . different from that john baptist and many believers were under . i find no promise of the blessings of their land , as gen. . is to abrahams seed of canaan , to all believers in any of those texts , ezek. . , , , . jer. . . compared with , , , , , . matth. . . luke . . tim. . . heb. . . . infants elect are in the same covenant evangelical with abraham , shall have a covenant resurrection and salvation , by christ , yet not in the visible church , but are saved without it . it is no new testament ordinance that ministers preach the gospel to every creature , without limitation , or explication restrictive to the intelligent of them , or baptize all nations simply , whether disciples , or believers , or not , but the disciples or believers in christ of all nations . that faith doth not sanctifie in every subject , but in subjecto capaci , and so not an unbelieving whore , cor. . . proves , that the sanctifying or holiness there , is not ascribed to the faith of the one parent , as to the formal reason , but to the conjugal relation , contrary to paedobaptists exposition of federal holiness , cor. . . which mr. baxter hath neither solidly nor learnedly vindicated , as might have been discerned by reading the first part of this review sect . , &c. which if mr. rutherford read with the rest , it 's likely ●e would no● say so unadvisedly as he do●h , that the dispute is at an end now . if god made the covenant gen. . . to abraham not as a father onely but as head of a family , and covenant holiness is of societie● and houses under the new testament as in abrahams house , then should infidels infants , yea infidels in a believers house be baptized by paedobaptists rules ; then is it no priviledge to believers and their seed , then doth the apostle after paedobaptists exposition of cor. . . say false , that the children were unclean , that is , without federal holiness ▪ if neither parent were a believer . most false is that which he saith without colour of proof pag. . not any are baptized in the new testament ( except the eunuch and saul acts . . ) who were baptized firstly , but they were baptized as publike men representing a seed ; the contrary appears from luk. . . joh. . . nor is it true , that societies as such , were baptized , nor any such thing intimated in the words , matth. . . mar. . . lu. . . but onely that a great number of people came to him and were baptized . yea in those places , as also joh. . , , . it is plain none were baptized , but such as came to hear john , and by confessing their sins shewed their repentance . no more needs be said to the stale frivolous allegations of baptizing housholds , then is said examen part . . sect . . review part . . sect . . nor to rom. . , . then in the first part of the review sect . , &c. the lord sends the gospel arbi●rarily to a city , houshold , or single person , as to the eunuch , paul , sergius paulus , as he pleaseth , and wee are to enquire whether the faith of the person be real , afore he is to be bap●ized , though the gospel be come to the nation , house , or society . nor is there any truth in it , no not according to the apostles doctrine , as cor. . . is expounded by paedobaptists , and they dispute from gen. . . if the friend , not a father , be in the house or society and profess the gospel , hee and his servants and friends obtain right to baptism . mr. rutherford pag. . enquires , what is the formal reason and ground that any hath right to baptism ? the terme● of the question seem to me to intimate , as if he with other paedobaptists , took baptism onely for a priviledge d●rived from a grant or covenant of god , which i take to be onely a duty both in the baptized and baptizer , by reason of a command of christ ( though there be also a priviledge consequent upon it ) and so the formal reason of it is the command , and the qualification which the baptized is to have , when hee is baptized , is believing with all his heart ; which if he wants he sins , yet not so as that the person , if after a dogmatical faith he become a sincere believer , is to b●e baptized again , but to repent of his former sin , as peter advised simon magus . the qualification , which the baptizer is to baptize upon , is a sober , intelligent , serious and free profession of faith in christ , upon which persons are termed disciples of christ and believers , and is the rule to the baptizer , matth. . . compared with mar. . , . which warrants his action , he being not able to look into the heart . mr. rutherfords objection from mar. . . is answered review part . sect . . p. . it is false , that none are to be baptized , but covenanted ones ; as acts . . meaning by gods promise , his promise of remission of sins and salvation to them by christ , nor doth acts . . prove it . if all infant ▪ even of pagans , and all aged are not to be baptized ▪ how is it true , that all nations are to be baptized without any other circumscription , as mr. rutherford cites the command matth. . . here pag. ? i like his words . all in covenant are not to be baptized . for such as are onely really and invisibly in covenant , and do make no profession of christ at all , are not warrantably by the church to be baptized . onely these whether old or young that are tali modo visibili federati ▪ such as professedly and visibly in covenant and called , acts . . are warrantably baptized ▪ hence they must be so in covenant , as they be called by the word of the covenant ; for they cannot be baptized against their will , luk. . , . which if mr. rutherford will stand to , the controversie may be ended ; and i promise him , that if he can prove , or shew that infants make any profession of christ , are professedly and visibly in covenant , are so in covenant , as that they be called by the word of the covenant , and that they are willing to be baptized , i shall yeild to baptize them . but this is frequent with paedobaptists ( as i have oft shewed in mr. m. mr. b. and mr. bl. ) to let fall such passages , especially in opening the institution , matth. . . in opposing papists , prelatists , antibaptists , as overthrow their disputes for infant baptism , and therefore they will not stand to them , when they are urged against them , but by some shift elude them . it is false which mr. rutherford saith , that this proposition , those to whom the promise of the covenant does belong , these should be baptized ( if universally understood ) is peters acts . , . or that this assumption , the promise of the covenant is to you and your children , is the express words of peter . the offer of christ in the preached gospel , is not the call , meant acts . ● . nor are all such as to whom the offer is made exter●ally in covenant , and such to whom the covenant is made and should be baptized ; though i grant , if they give a professed consent to the call of the gospel , they are bap●izable . calvins words are no proof , against those who yeild not what he saith of the anabaptists of his time . mr rutherfords words are too vain for a man of his name , which say , that believing children are not children , but men of age . my exposition of acts . . neither excludes sucking children , nor is the inclusion proved by him from matth. . ● . cor. . . the sense mr. rutherford makes the onely sense of acts . . the promise and word of the covenant is preached to you and your children in you , is false , for then it had been true , that it was preached then to all afar off , which is manifestly false , and vain ; for it had been no comfort to them , sith it might bee preached without their benefit , nor is this to be externally in covenant ( except in mr. rutherfords gibberish ) both under the old and new testament . in the o●d persons were so by birth , without preaching ; in the new , they onely who profess faith . the other sense mr. rutherford sets down is none of mine , nor is it needful i should answer the objections against it and the terms , the lord hath internally covenanted with you ; i take to be non-sense , no covenanting with us being an immanent , but a transeunt act . my sense is fully set down here sect. , &c. and proved . i grant no more covenant favour holden forth to their children , acts . . then to the pagans children , except in priority of tender . i make not external covenant holiness , ceremonial holiness out of da●e , nor can he cleer it , or that by any thing i say , the words acts . . must be in a contradictory way expounded , to wit , the promise is no more made to your children so long as they are infants , then to devils ; which seeing hee mentions mr. ms. words but a little before , i have reason to conceive reflect on my self ; and if so , they have too great a shew of diabolism . right to hear the preached gospel , and a covenant or gospel warrant peculiar to believers children , is such talk as i understand not . i think hearing is a duty obliging all ; pagans have not onely warrant , but also command to hear it , it is not onely lawfull but necessary . the children of the most holy christian gentile believers , are not christians till they believe , and both they and their parents when they believe are still heathens ; the term heathens , being all one with gentiles contradistinct to jews , and so used here by mr. rutherford himself pag. . in words before cited , and i sometimes admire that some learned men should suggest this to readers and hearers as a h●inous thing to term them heathens , when they must be so , if they be not jews , though most holy christians . the term pagans , if it bee all one with professed infidels positively , i grant it belongs not to our children ; yet they are infidels negatively , till they believe , and are so accounted of them that admit them not to the lords supper , as well as of those that admit them not to baptism , unto which actual profession of faith is as well required as to the lords supper . to neither hath a man any right by covenant , although by the covenant he hath right to the benefits of the gospel . baptism and the lords supper are neither of them formally benefi●s , or seals of the covenant of grace ; though by con●equent , in the right use of them , such benefit● accrue to men by them . they are hoth rites appointed by christ , the one to be the baptized his signe , whereby he professeth repentance and faith in christ , and engageth himself solemnly to adhere to christ as his disciple , the other whereby he● signifies his remembrance of christs death , both our duties , and a right to duty , sounds to mee like non-sense . i know no anabaptist that ignorantly confounds the promise and the thing promised , the covenant and benefits covenanted ; but this i aver , that when god promiseth and covenanteth they are connex , there is no man to whom cod promiseth or covenanteth , but he hath or shall have the thing promised or covenanted . and this i learn from the apostle rom. . . who makes onely the chosen sons of promise , as mr. rutherford here pag. . expounds him ; and that is , as gal. . . he expresseth himself , to abraham and his seed were the promises made or said , that is christ personal or mystical , or both , and to no other . and sure the apostle rom. . . did think it blasphemy to say , that god had promised , and those he promised to should not have the thing promised ; for then gods word should fall , and he be a liar . if gods conditional promise be a covenant ▪ yet it is made onely to them that perform the condition . he that believeth and is baptized shall bee saved , is not an universal promise to all men , whether believers or not ; but onely to so many as shall believe . 't is true we can exclude none , because we cannot exempt any from believing , and therefore we are to make an indifferent offer to any , but god in his intention excludes many , and his promise is not made to them whom he excludes , nor are they under his covenant , or in covenant with him , in respect of his act of promising ; though they may be said to bee in covenant , or under the covenant in respect of their own act of promising ; i grant the command is to persons whether they believe or not , obey or not , for that is not an enunciative speech , that signifies any thing true or false , but is in the imperative mood , and extendeth to all men whatsoever , so as whosoever doth not as the command bids , sins : but when mr. rutherford saith , the promise is to you , and so are the commands and threatnings , whether ye believe or not ; whether ye transgress or transgress not : ( if an anabaptist falsly so called may have the boldness to tell a professour in divinity in an university in scotland of ignorance ) i should tell him , he is mistaken , in saying , the promise is to you whether you believe or no , the threatning is to you whether you transgress or no. for they being enunciations in the indicative mood , if meant so , should bee false ; which to impute to god , would asperse him with falshood and injustice , which is horrendum dictu . and in my apprehension it savours of ignorance which mr. rutherford saith pag. . nor is it true , that the promise is made to the aged upon condition of believing . the promise is made to them absolutely , whether they believe or not . but the blessing of the promise and covenant of grace is given and bestowed onely conditionally if they believe . the promise is absolutely made , it 's called conditional from the thing corditionally given . for either i have lost my wits , or else a conditional promise is a conditional p●oposition , expressing something that shall be , if some other thing bee put ; and sure a conditional proposition is so termed from the words , not from the event . a promise is a promise absolute or conditional , as soon as the words are spoken , long before the thing promised is given , yea though it be never given . the giving or not giving upon performing or not performing the condition , may make the promise true or false determinately , but not conditional or absolute . i forbear to uncover any further mr. rutherfurds nakedness in this speech , and reset him to mr. baxter to correct him for that speech ; nor is it true , that the promise is not made to the aged upon condition of believing . and as for his speeches , of the saving of infants of believing parents dying in infancy , and our giving evidence thereof , there is so much said before of it , especially against mr. baxter sect. , . and elsewhere , that i need say no more here . as for what he saith , of our want of warrant to pray for them without their being in covenant ; though it hurt not me , who grant of so many as are elect that they are in covenant ; yet i think i have a warrant to pray by a general command , tim. . , , . and in faith by a general promise , matth. . , . the knowledge of gods goodness , and the goodness of the thing asked . in the rest of the chapter , mr. rutherfurd endeavours to find a way , according to which infants of believers may be said to bee within covenant , and the words acts . . meant of them , and their title to baptism thence inferred : for which end hee useth many words with distinctions , which are vain , without good sense , or good consistency , or any thing to his purpose . four ways he conceives infants of believers may be said to be in covenant . . in that god maketh the promise of a new heart to them ; but this he grants is true onely of the elect ; and not of all commanded to be baptized , acts . , . and pag. . he granted persons invisibly in covenant without profession , are not warrantably to be baptized . . in that god promiseth forgiveness of sins , and eternal life upon condition of repentance and faith . thus infants may be in the covenant of grace , but no otherwise then or rather not so much as professed unbelievers , to whom it is tendred , who yet are not to be baptized , and if the promise be meant so acts . . it proves not a right to baptism thence till the condition be performed , which when infants declare they do , i shall baptize them . . that they are in covenant because they are under the command , for thus he speaks pag. . the covenant must be considered in abstracto , and formally in the letter as a simple way of saving sinners , so they believe , so all within the visible church are in the covenant of grace , and so it contains onely the will of precept . in which he is mistaken , . in that he saith , the covenant formerly in the letter is a simple way of saving sinners , so they believe ; for such a speech is not the covenant in any sense , much less formally in the letter in abstracto : such a speech as this , men are saved if they believe , or the way of saving men is upon condition of believing , is not the covenant sith it is not a promise , but a covenant is formally a promise , or an aggregate of promises . . in that he saith , the covenant formally contains only the will of precept ; whereas the covenant formally contains not at all the will of precept , the will of precept containing onely the command of what should be done by another , but the covenant is a promise of what the covenanter will do ; the one is exprest in the imperative mood , the other in the indicative ; nor is the will of precept in the letter as a simple way of saving sinners , so they believe ; for such an expression is no command at all , but a declaration of event . . in that he saith , so all within the visible church are in the covenant of grace , which he seems to mean thus , they all and they onely . but sure either infants are not at all this way in the covenant of grace , who never hear the command propounded to them , or if they be , they are no more in it then the americans out of the visible church ▪ who never heard of christ , nor so much as professed unbelievers to whom the gospel hath been preached ; and therfore this way infants have not right to baptism ▪ so that this speech of mr. rutherfurd hath , as many of his expressions , nothing but ignorance and impertinency . . a person may be said to be in covenant , in that he is really covenanted and engaged by his consented profession , to fulfil the covenant ; as mr. rutherfurd speaks pag. . this way i grant intitles to baptism ; but sure infants are not so in covenant , nor is the meaning so acts . . where the promise is gods promise to us , not our promise to god ; nor is this the paedobaptists plea , when they argue infants are in covenant , therefore to be baptized ; for they mean by being in covenant , that god hath promised to be a god to them as the seed of believers , gen. . . and therefore mr. rutherfurd hath not yet shewed any way , according to which infants of believers are intitled to baptism , by vertue of the covenant of grace ; or from acts . , . notwithstanding all his blooding of it , to use his own term . let 's view what is in ch. . neither is it true , that god saith persons should be circumcised because of gods promise , gen. . . nor , that women were circumcised in the males ; nor was peter sent to baptize all the circumcised ; nor are infants to bee baptized by the ground of circumcision ; nor is there any thing acts . , . that saith , because the same promise is made to fathers and to children must infants bee baptised . neither do i know what mr. rutherfurd understands by theological essence , or formal effects ; nor do i conceive any truth or sense in mr. rutherfurds talk of circumcision and baptism being the same in the substance , nature , and theological essence , and in the formal effects ; much less that the lord hath any such argument , gen. . . and though i should grant all are to bee exhorted to be baptised , who are under the same covenant ; yet not without repentance and faith foregoing their baptism , wit●out which the promise warrants not baptism . there is no such command gen. . , . that all these in covenant should be marked with the initiatory seal ; nor is baptism instituted in place of circumci●●on ; and if it were , yet m●re is needful to warrant infant baptism . there is as plain precept acts . . & . , . mark. . . matth. . . against in●ant baptism , as is against infant communion cor. . . wee have good consequences out of the word against infant baptism , without arguing from the covenant of grace ; which mr. rutherfurd may see in the d . part of this review sect . and none against the holy ghost , but from him . that the promises of the covenant of grace are expresly to infants of the new testament is more then i find acts . . or elsewhere . dipping in rivers need not be onerous , and may be without danger , to women with child , virgins , some sorts of diseased persons in winter , in cold countries , and it will require more strength in dispute , then either mr. baillee , or mr. baxter , have shewed , or i finde yet in mr. rutherfurd ; to prove dipping in rivers ( though baptism be not necessary to be done in rivers ) to be against the word , the second , third , and fourth commandements . and against sprinkling , or perfusion instead of baptism , there is so much said in my addition to the apology against mr. baillee , mr. rutherfurds colleague , and delivered to mr. rutherfurd himself , and since printed with a letter to him , as is for ought i know , yet unanswered . all mr. rutherfurds talk pag. , . that now infants of believers are casten out , for no fault , of the covenant of grace , and his aggravations thereof , are to be taken for meer calumnies , and since the printing of my ex●men , there is reason to judge them to be thus wilfully vented by mr. rutherfurd , and till he name the anabaptists , and cite the place , i can take it for no other then a false accusation , which he saith of the anabaptists that they teach infants to be born without sin . mr. rutherfurd dictates without proof pag. . that they were covenanting parents and believers , that brought the little children mark . , that they were not diseased or possessed , that he would have the whole spece of infants at all time ●o come to him , and those infants might bee blessed as elect ones , though no marks were given to parents or others , whereby to discern elect children ; these being no direction for them to bring children to christ under that notion . it is false that anabaptists rebuke persons that bring children to christ as the disciples did , mar. . . or that christ instates infants of believing parents as members of the visible church . what mr. ●obbet hath said of that act of christ is refelled review part . . sect . . and that the kingdome of god is that of glory , is made good against mr. blake there , sect . and not refused by me : i know no absurdity in it , to say , christ might bless infants of pagans . what designe christ might have , or had , besides mr. rutherfurds conceived purpose to hold forth the common interest of the whole spece of infants within the visible church , is shewed there sect . . against mr. baxter . i do gran● the blessing , mark . . to be personal , and the chiefest blessing beyond visible churchmembership ; and though we finde not proof that christ blessed the whole race of infants of covenanting parents , yet it is false that we make them blessed onely as symboles of humility ; or that the blessing was some complemental salutation ; or that ( as mr r. saith of anab●ptists after hi● calumniating manner ) wee will have them without christ and the covenant , and under the curse of god ; but grant that they were blessed with the blessing of the covenant of grace , and that many other infants are so . whether they were parents , or believers in christ as the messiah , who brought the children , matth. . . is uncertain ; nor do i say , or need i , they had a saith grounded upon a possibility of election separated from the covenant ; nor do i deny , that infants have their share of salvation by the covenant ; or that a covenanted seed is prophesied to be added to the jews , under the new testament ; nor doth any thing i say infer , that the children of believers under the new testament must be a cursed seed ; yet there is none of the texts mr. rutherfurd brings , which proves a prediction , that the natural seed of believers as such , shall be blessed and in the covenant of grace , nor that their infant seed shall be visible churchmembers in the christian church : but they are all impertinently alledged , some being meant of the jews i●crease in jud●● after their return from babylon , some of the effectual calling of the gentiles ; and most of them so far cleared before , that i count it needless to make answer to each of the texts by themselves . and mr. rutherfurds discourse is so loose and full of impertinencies , and incoherencies , that i shall onely animadvert on some passages , till the whole bee brought to some distinct scholastique form . he tels us pag , . that external covenanting goes before internal covenanting , as the means before the end , and the cause before the effect : for faith comes by hearing of a sent pre●cher , rom. ● . . and the preaching of the gospel is a saving means of begetting a new heart , and of a new spirit . hence . all must be first externally in covenant , before they can be internally and really in covenant . in which speech he seem● to conceive external covenanting , to bee either preaching or hearing a preacher , else his reason had been vain . but what non-sense scribling is this , to term preaching or hearing covenanting ? a person may , and we may conceive some do , preach and hear , who never externally covenant . sure covenanting is promising , but so is not either preaching or hearing . and if mr. rutherfurds words be true , no infant can be internally and really in covenant , who doth not preach or hear . his talk is as vain , of the lord being a god simply to some , and no more but a god to them in regard of outward church-priviledges , but to others more then a god in truth and righteousness ; not to all , as if god might be a god to some not in truth and righteousness , or the being a god to his people , contained not the greatest blessings , contrary to lu. . , . heb. . . his further talk pag. . from matth. . . is without proof , and all shewed to be vain , in the places before cited . though the houshold sometimes comprehend infants , yet not so still , nor acts . as is shewed review part . . sect . . anabaptists neither do nor must grant , if infants be in covenant , they ought to receive the seal of the covenant . if rom. . . be meant of holiness onely intentionally , and not giving actual right to baptism , then the holiness there proves not infants to be baptizable . that the covenant deut. . , . should ●e made virtually radically with us gentiles , is a do●age with a witness : not onely the express words v. . but also the passages all along ch. , . shew it was the legal covenant renewed with the people of israel and their posterity , to engage them to observe all the law of god given by moses : not the covenant made to adam , abraham , david , the new , or better covenant . if the covenant may stand in one , then it is not necessary that a people , nation ▪ seed , body , should be in covenant , and consequently it may stand without infants . the apostle saith not rom. . . the fathers were the root . but mr. rutherfurd adds . hence anabaptists , without all reason , say that hee speaks not of federal and external holiness , but of real , internal , and true holiness , onely of the invisible body predestinated to life : for though invisible holiness cannot be excluded , except we exclude the holiness of abraham , isaac , and jacob , who were without doubt a part of the roo● . answ. anabaptists , if we must be so named , do say that the holiness rom. . . is meant of real , internal and true holiness ; and consequently the persons there said to be holy , are all of the invisible body predestinated to life , and no other but such there meant : yet they deny not , that the holiness of the covenant and church the●e meant were made visible by its working , the collective body of the jewes predestinate to life ; and that it is not said without all reason , might have appeared to mr. rutherfurd , if he had read my examen part . sect . . my apol. sect . . pag. . review part . . sect . , &c. part . . sect . . yea if there were nothing else said but what mr. rutherfurd here yeilds , that invisible holiness cannot be excluded , except we exclude the holiness of abraham , isaac , and jacob , who were withoue doubt part of the root , that which anabaptists say , is not said without reason , and that demonstrative . for if invisible holiness cannot be excluded , then it is included , and if included together with external visible holiness , then the holiness there meant is not external holiness alone ; nor they who have meerly external federal holiness are there said to be holy , and consequently no reprobate , but onely the predestinate to life . and if abraham , isaac and jacob , be part of the root , and therefore invisible holiness cannot bee excluded , then the rest of the root and the branches which are made in the text alike holy , must have invisible holiness also . but mr. rutherfurd ads . yet he must be taken to speak of that holiness of the covenant and church , as made visible , and of the visible collective body of the jews , not of onely real and invisible holiness . . because this was true in the days of elias , if the root be holy the branches are holy ; and it is a new testament-truth of perpetual verity , if the fathers be holy so must the sons . the fathers have church-right to circumcision , to baptism , to the passeover , and the lords supper , so have the children : but it is most false of the invisible mystical body and root onely , and of real and internal holiness ; for neither in old or new testament is it true , if the fathers be predestinated to life , justified , and sanctified , and saved , so must the children be . answ. the term [ holy , rom. . . ] notes onely real and invisible holiness in that place , though the persons said to bee holy have it made visible , and it agree to the visible collective body of the jewes . and the proposition of mr. rutherfurd to the contrary , if the fathers be holy so must the sons , is most false , not onely being understood of invisible , but also of visible holiness , of churchright to circumcision , to baptism , to the passeover , and the lords supp●r . though the father were holy visibly , by profession of the god of israel , yet had not hee nor his child right thereby to circumcision , and the passeover , without being a proselyte of righteousness , taking on him the precepts of moses to observe , and joyning to the policy of israel , and yet even then the child of age , who did not avouch the god of israel , had no right thereto . nor by paedobaptists own principles hath the child of age right to bap●ism , or the lords supper , without his own profession , though the parent● be christians ; nor the infant of a believer baptized ( as they conceive ) right to the lords supper . mr. rutherfurd is grosly mistaken in making every believing parent the root me●n● rom. . . and every natural child a branch : for then every believing parent should beare his child : v. . and every natural child shou●d derive holiness from his believing parent ; abrahams natur●l children at this day are not in the olive , nor shall be till re-ingraffed . abraham is the root , not as a natural father , but as father of believers , and ●one are branches or holy as the apostle there means , but through ●aith according to election . nor are hereby the distinctions of jew inward and outward , child of the flesh and promise taken away ; nor whole israel certainly saved . nor by the branches be meant all the visible body of the jews old and yong , which ●e mi●ht have imagined would be replied to hi● argument pag. . nor is it new divinity , but old , that none are to be baptized but such as are under actual exercise of their faith , which may be discerned , by their profession , in those that are come to age . it is neither my divinit● , nor follows ( though mr. rutherfurd c●nceives it doth ) on it , that predestination to life and glory , must bee pro●ogated and derived from the lump to the first fruits ( he meant from the first fruits to the lu●p ) from the root and parents to the branches and children ; but this i say , that faith , and righteousness are propagated and derived from ●braham as an exemplary root to all his spiritual branches or seed by conformation to him . i do not say , that the apostle rom. . speaks of an invisible body , but this i say , the apostle by branches means two sorts of people , the one jews , who were then broken off from the olive tree , which is the invisible church of the elect ; the other gentiles , then graffed in , yet not all the gentiles , nor one nation wholly and entirely , but a great part of them in comparison of what were formerly in the olive very numerous . how these branches were an elect seed and yet fell away , were preached to , had a national election and external calling , were in the room of the jewes , ●id partake of the fatness of the olive , is so fully opened in the places before cited , that i think it unnecessary to add here any more . onely whereas he makes it an absurdity , that the infants of baptized actual believers should be all heathen as well as the casten off the jewes ; it is to me and absurdity unfit for any learned man to vent , that knows that heathen in english is all one with gentiles and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to conceive otherwise , as if a jew because cast off were become a heathen , or any gentile believer or his infant , were or could bee by believing and baptism any other then an heathen , or a christian of the gentiles did not still continue a heathen notwithstanding his christianity . i do account mr. rutherfurd and my self christians , and yet heathens . there 's not a word in the text , that warrants us to say of the children of the ingraffed and called gentiles that they have right to baptism ; but what if the words be expounded as mr. rutherfurd does , of the whole visible body of the nations will allow the baptizing of infidels . abrahams children were never taken into covenant-fellowship universally . abraham was indeed a moral not a physical root , yet not as a believing father , nor as a believing head of children , of servants and strangers under him , but as father of believers after him . and in this respect , neither adam , nor any other then abraham is the root , and none of abrahams natural seed are branches or holy intentionally , but such as are elect , and shall be conformed to him in believing and justification . nor doth the apostle when he saith , the jews are beloved by reason of the fathers , make abraham , isaac , and jacob the root ; but intimate that god remembers them , because of his covenant made to them , his taking the title of their god , their obedience to him , their prayers , and his constancy to them as his ancient friends , when all the world were revolted . the conceit of mr. rutherfurd concerning holiness external federal , as if it were any cause or reason of re-ingraffing them or their infants , is so frivolous , that i wonder any sober man should once fancy it . for what is it but a state of outward church priviledges , right to the seals , &c but to imagine so great a work as the re-ingraffing , which infers salvation , should come from abrahams , isaac , and jacobs , or any other natural believing fathers visible churchmembership , circumcision , baptism , &c. is to derive title to heaven , from at best , an amissible priviledge , which may be interrupted by men . what more is to be seen in mr. cotton , blake , cobbet , baxter , mr. rutherfurd may see examined in this review ; by reading of which hee may discern , that they have neither closed the dispute ; nor managed it so , as that their learning is to be rested on . sect . lxxxvii . the distractions in germany and our present distractions , sprung not from anabaptism as mr. cragge saith . there having been a dispute a● abergavenny between me and mr. john cragge , sept. th . . and a sermon preached there ( wh●n i was gone thence ) the next lords day , in opposition to what i taught , instead of letting mee have a copy manuscript , they were printed with much injury to the truth and my person . where●ore having had experience in mr. bs. dealing , what advantage the errour of infant baptism got by such writings , i being then in london and meeting with the book , made a reply intituled , a plea for antipaedobaptists ; to which mr. john cragge hath returned an answer , and intituled it , the arraignment and conviction of anabaptism . he hath prefixed an epistle to eight ominent members of the parliament which ●ate anno . he tels them that the cause he defends is and ought to be dearer to them , then any private interests , as whereupon infallibly depends the peace of church and state. he might more truly have said , that infallibly the peace of church and state depends on the reforming of infant baptism , which hath corrupted the church and state by bringing into the christian societies a world of ignorant , loose and prophane persons , who being the major part in all churches , and commonwealths , where christianity hath been received , have persecuted the godly , domineered over the consciences and liberties of the saints , and upheld a proud and sensual clergy , to the infinite disturbance of the eastern and western churches for many ages . and though i hope better of the men to whom mr. cr. ascribes such heroick excellencies , that they have or will have more wit or more grace , then to account mr. crs. cause of infant baptism dearer to them then any private interests . yet i must confess i cannot but mourn , that not onely parliament men , but also ministers should be so ignorant , as to be taken with such silly in●●pid clamours ( i may truly say ) rather then arguings , as mr. cr. mr. b. and others , have mislead them by . that which he saith , the former sad disasters of germany and our present distractions , both took their spring and growth , in a great measure , from anabaptism , ●is most false . the disasters in germany which were in the years , . did spring from the great burthens and oppressions which were put on the rusticks by their princes , bishops , abbots . spondanus expresly in his auct . of his epit. of baron . annals ad annum . saith , that they began in suevia , by rising of the bores against their lord count lupfius , and that the beginning thence being risen , after an infinite number of rusticks being stirred up to seditions upon pretent of gospel liberty ( which spanheimius himself in his diatribe historica § . . refers to luthers book of christian liberty as the occasion taken by them ) committed great outrages . and ad annum . tels us , that in the diocess of spi●e , a conspiracy of husbandmen against the bishops and canons , which was called the rustick league , began from two rusticks : of which conspiracy the ch●ef article was that they should shake off every yo●e , and in imitation of the helvetians should recover their liberty . and lucas osiander epit. hist. eccles. cent . . l. . c. . p. . saith , these particular seditions in germany , were the praeludia or fo●e playes of that great sedition of rusticks , which was in its vigour in the year . and gnodalius in his history of the rustick tumults in germany in the year . lib. . sai●h , that in suevia , where they first began , they did openly signifie that they were not gospellers , nor did flow together for the gospel sake , but because of exactions . bp. jewel . def. of the apology of the church of england part . . chap. . divis. . to harding , saying , were the hundred thousand bores of germany consumed by the sword of the nobility there for their obecience ? answers thus , the bores of germany , of whom ye speak , for the greatest part , were adversaries unto doctour luther , and understood no part of the gospel : but conspired together , as they said , onely against the cruelty and tyranny of their lords : as they had done two and twenty years before in the same country , in the conspiracy called liga sotularia , fifteen years before doctour luther began to preach : the partners of which conspiracy had for their watchword the name of our lady , and in the honour of her , were bound to say five ave maries every day . certainly touching those later rebels , it is known that luther sharply and vehemently wrote against them . and they themselves being demanded thereof , utterly denied both the partaking , and also the knowledge of the gospel . it is true muncer was a busie man in thuringia , and stirred up the people disposed to tumults by reason of oppressions , and at munster in westphalia in the years , . were stirs and out-rages ; but even spanheimius himself sets down the beginning of them to have been upon the protestant reformation , by the preaching of rotmannus and others , afore the comming of john matthias , and john becold of leyden the bishop and canons of munster being papists opposing it . how in like manner the bishop of geneva was expelled when the protestants grew potent there , and the like was done in other places , is manifest by records extant , which acts have been repres●n●ed as alike odious with those of muncer , and at munster , and would h ave been so reputed if there had been the like success , i mean the adverse party had prevailed as they did in these . our present distractions cannot with any shew of truth be said to take their spring from anabap●ism , by any that know things from the relation of men im●loyed in publike negotiations , their being neither in the beginning nor now , either in the councel of state , or parliaments , or armies , or city of london , or universities , or countries ; any such persons or parties , as could sw●y things any further then to put some stop to the violence of the clergy against them , to which as the cause of them , though not the onely , the present distractions are to be referred : to whom how much in former ages , and at this present , the great troubles of the churches of god are to be ascribed , may be seen in part , in mr. baxters book intituled , the reformed pastour , ch . . sect . , . and in many histories . mr. cr. adds ; which reason with experience dictates ; for by their principles whole nations are unchurched and none received into communion , but by re-baptizing , all former members esteemed as publicans and heathens ; hence magistracy and ministry that dissents , are by them wholly disgusted , if not discarded . answ ... experience hath not proved either the disasters in germany or our present distractions , to have sprung from anabap●ism , but from other causes ; chiefly , the oppression of princes and prelates . . nor are mr. crs. reasons sufficient to evince anabaptism ▪ a cause of such troubles . for the first principle , that whole nations are unchurched , is as well the independent as paedobaptists principle ( among whom is mr. cradock counted a light in their goshen of monmouthshire , by the relatour of the dispute in the epistle dedicatory ) and if so , the present distractions are to be ascribed with as good reason to indepency as to anabaptism , and perhaps with greater ; it being considered that they have been and are the more potent party . as the papists imputed all the troubles to protestant principles of christian ●iber●y , the prelates to non conformists , whom it hi● gift long since compared with anabaptists , because they alledged ag●inst prelacy matth. , . so the presbyterians charge the like on independency , and perhaps independents on anabaptism ; yet none of their principles are indeed the spring of the troubles , but the violence of the leading men of each party , who by their mis-reports and clamors , stir up magistrates and people against their opposites , and will by no means allow liberty to them , nor willingly life : of which spirit mr. cr. seems by his writing to bee , and i suppose the state will discern all such as will not tolerate others , who dissent in religion , intolerable . . it is false that magistracy and ministry that dissents , is by anabaptists wholly disgusted , if not discarded . for though i cannot justifie all so called , there being violent spirits among them ( who are intolerable ) as well as o●hers : yet neither do all nor any great part that i know of , appear to be such . but if they did , yet sure it comes ●ot from those principles fore-named by mr. cr. there being no such consequ●nce included in those tenents , that they who are not churchme●bers are not to be accounted magistrates . as bp. andrews answered ▪ resp . ad bellarm apol. c. p. . bellarmine alledging the puritans did not admit the kings supremacy ▪ because they brought a parity into the church . to the kings supremacy what is parity among elders in the church ? videt ergo lector ludere hîc pa● , impar , cardinalem ; so may i say to mr cr. the baptists do not count whole nations to be churches of christ , and with them agree independents , as dr. owen of schism , ch , &c the baptists receive none into communion but the baptized , esteemed all other as not in the church visible ( though these two last are denied by many of them ) what is the non-admission into the church , to the disgusting or discarding of magistracy in the common-wealth ? the reader therefore sees mr. cr. to play here par impar , even and odd . what mr. cr. hath suffered for patronage of respect to tender consciences , i know not ; nor who are for promiscuous toleration without distinction . what he adds out of the old testam●●t of p●inces punishing idolatry and blasphemy , was done by special judicial laws of moses , which do not binde christian magistrates ; if they did it makes nothing for the punishing of errours of christians about the christian doctrine , by civil punishment . it is granted that ministers are bound to oppose errours by preaching , and ecclesiastical censures , both singly and in councils ; yet neither have councils , nor the learnedst doctours been very happy in determining of errours , and heresies . that which was heresi● in one council was orthodox in another ; under one emperor that was adjudged ●ruth , which was blasphemy under another . what strange kinds of heretiques were the quartodecimani , aerians , helvidians , and many more ? had vigilantius or jovinian ( saith mr. baxter in his reformed pastour p. ● . ) had hieromes name , some of their heresies might possibly have been articles of faith . nor was it well done ( however mr. cr. conceives ) that well-minded emperours did rely so much on the advise of synods and bishops , as to banish and destroy at the instance of them , such as they judged heretiques and schismatiques . the sad tragedies about the doctrines of the trinity , images , easter , &c. are a sufficient document to all wise rulers to bee cautelou● how they use their power for suppressing persons deemed erroneous in point of doctrine . there may bee toleration of different opinions in a commonwealth without mixture of religion , and that such toleration doth not dissolve the bond of obedience , or breed any of those evils mr. cr. reckons up ( except by accident ) the peaceable rule of the united provinces of belgia and elsewhere shews . it is the intemperate zeal of preachers and others against dissenters , which is the chief cause of such evils as mr. cr. reckons up . i remember that i have read , that the bores of germany were not subdued till . of them were slain , but sleidan reports not in his com. l. . or any other , that in germany the anabaptist grew so populous , that they could not be vanquished , till almost a hundred thousand of them were slain by the united forces of the empire . but the emperour objected to the protestants that their preachers were a great occasion of the rustical war , wherein an hundred thousand were slain . but whether it were so or not so ( what ever mr. crs. protestations be ) the writing this epistle , with some other passages at the time and to the persons to whom it was directed , shew what we are to expect from him and such as he is , if ever they have power over us . but of these things onely by the way . sect . lxxxviii . austins saying about apostolical traditions is not to be rested upon , nor his testimony about the antiquity of infant baptism . after his own epistle , and the epistle of i. t. p. and the reprinting of the conference between me and mr. vaughan , and the dispute between me and himself , mr. cr. leaving out the former epistle of i. t. p. begins with a descant on the title of my reply , which he vainly makes to imply a suit against the universal church , though it be onely an action against innovators , who have left the plain way of christ and his apostles , and ( as they have done in many other things ) brought in infant baptism , to the great corruption of the church of god : and for mr. halls inditement , it is such as is fit for boys onely to make sport with ; and were mr. hall or mr. cr. of such serious and grave spirits as they should be , they would have buried it in silence , or been humbled for handling things of god so lightly , such writings being fitter for light wits in the university , then for preachers and pastors over churches of christ. my calling mr. baxters book a cheat and mock titled book , is proved here to be right ; and that mr. ms. is no impregnable defence , is here shewed . the rest of mr. crs. light poetry in sect . . &c. par . . i let pass as the scum of his wit , and onely take notice , that he terms from stow sir john oldcastle a traitor , who was hanged on a gibbet and burned in st. gyles field , whom mr. fox in his book of martyrs in the time of henry the th . hath against alan cope vindicated , and by sundry arguments particularly by the manner of his death mentioned by mr. cr. made it probable , that he died a martyr oppressed by popish prelates . whose case is a good document how little credence is to be given to the censures of men , when the relations of them are made by their prevailing adversaries . what i think of laying on hands , may be seen part of this review , sect . . dr. featly was a man with whom i had sundry times conference when he was in his greatest esteem , but never found him such as i durst not look in the face when living , and sure his book of baptism is ( beside● what denn hath done ) shewed here and elsewhere not to be unanswerable . with what spirit mr. cr. and other paedobaptists , and my self , have written on this subject , must be left to the cognizance of our judge . if austins saying , l. . de bapt. contra donat. c. . that what the universal church holds ▪ nor was instituted in councels , but always retained , is most rightly believed to have been delivered by no other then apostolical authority , were meant as mr. cr. sect . . p. . expounds it , including the apostles , i should yeeld it . but . i do not conceive that to be austins meaning ; for . then the speech would be an inept tautology to say , that what the whole church including the apostles holds , is most rightly believed to have been delivered by no other then apostolical authority ; it were as if he had said , what the apostles held the apostles held : . the very speech shews that austin meant it of the universal church of his time , the word [ tenet ] being in the present tense , and the councels meant being such as were since the apostles , and that he counted that to be instituted in no councels , but to have been always held , of which he could not shew any beginning or any interruption : . elsewhere his speeches shew this was his mind , as epist. . ad joann . illa quae non scripta sed tradita custodimus , quae quidem toto terrarum orbe observantur dantur intelligi vel ab i●sis apostolis vel plenariis conciliis quorum est in ecclesi● saluberrima autoritas commendata atque statuta retineri , and he instanceth in the anniversary solemnities of good friday , easter day , holy thursday , and whitsunday , and adds ; and if any other thing hath occurred which is kept by the whole church where ever it spreads it self . and accordingly he makes the necessity of the communion to eternal life as of baptism to the kingdome to be from apostolical tradition , tom . . de pecc . mer. & remis . l. . c. . mr. crs. conceit is not right , as if the words , and if any man seek for divine authority in this thing , did intimate that his following rule was meant of what was held in the apostles time : for in them he means that which he after fetcheth from circumcision out of scripture , besides that which the whole church holds , not instituted in councels , yet still held . in this sense it is urged by canus , l. . loc . theol. c. . as a rule to know genuine unwritten traditions apostolical from spurious , and rejected by chamier , paustr. cath . tom . . l. . c. . § . . as impossible , sith what hath been in all ages and churches from the apostles cannot be known ; and it is urged by bellarm. de bonis oper . in part . l. . c. ● . for lent fast , and refuted by chamier , paustr. cath . tom . ● . l. c. . § . . . this rule cannot stand the epistler in any stead for proving infant baptism without the apostles writings , . because there is no way without them to know what was universally held , there being no man able to know what the church holds in all places in his own time , much less what in former ages was held ; and many things have been taken even by austin as universally observed which were not , and many councels held which are unknown , and many corruptions crept very early into the church whose original cannot be s●t down determinately , of which ushers general answer to the jesuites challenge ▪ gives reasons . . infant baptism cannot bee proved to have been universally observed , but as now it is taught and used hath been opposed by some of the ancients , and is now rejected by protestant divines , as it was by the ancients taught and used . nor is austins testi●ony se●m . de verb. apostoli ( not serm. . ) that the church always had and held infant baptism , valid for mr. crs. purpose ; . because the term [ hoc , this ] may bee rather referred to t●e doctrine of infants being born with original sin , rather then the practise of their baptism , and to this sen●e both t●e scope , words precedent , consequen● , and the terms , had , held , perceives from the faith of elders , keep to the end ( which are most fitl● appli●d to doctrine ) make more prob●ble , as i noted in my apology § . . pag. . . were the meaning of austin about infant baptism , yet there were no cause to rest on this testimony as credible , . because it is but a speech in a popular sermon , in which men speak not exactly as in other writings . . the words [ hoc ecclesia usque in finem perseveranter custodit ] could be known onely by guess and conjectural presage , it being of a contingent matter not by divine revelation fore-told , and therefore the other speeches ( as likewise other speeches , as that tom . . de pecc . mer. & remiss . l. . c. . shew was his wont ) are to bee conceived as spoken not out of any good records , but from that which he found observed in his time , where he had been . because serm . . de verbis apost . he saith , that cyprian epist. . ad fidum quid semper ecclesia sensit monstraverit ; though he onely set down what wa● determined in that council of carthage , which was in the third century . . there are so many speeches of the ancients false , uncertain , contradicting each other concerning apostolical traditions , universal observations , that many protestants have discredited them , of which some testimonies are set down by me in my p●aecursor sect . . salmasius appar . ad libr. de primatu p●pae , men●ions some other , as pag. . all the fathers with one accord make paul and peter founders of the roman church , and yet were deceived ; hierome saith , it was in all the world decreed , that one should be a bishop over others : and yet the preface of selden before twisdens collection of ancient british histories , shews it wa● otherwi●e in scotland of old . and for austin epist. . ad janu. c. , . hee makes the anniversary solemnities of easter , &c. of eating the lords supper fasting , as always universally observed , in which he was mistaken . mr. cr. doth abuse me in making my argument , as if i had said easter was always held , my words were ; if austins rule were true , then easter should be from the apostles ; not because i thought it true , but because austin thought so , and so by his rule easter must bee counted to come from the apostles , and his testimony is as good for it , as for the universal observation of in●ant baptism . . not onely protestants but papists also do now reject things observed by the ancients , as amply as infant baptism . jewel sermon at pauls cross , p. . usher answer to the jesuits challenge , p. . it was the use of the ancient church to minister the communion to infants : which is yet also practised by the christians in egypt and ethiopia . the church of rome , upon better consideration hath thought fit to do otherwise . the putting milk and honey into the mouth of th●●aptized , the standing at prayer on lords days between easter and whitsontide , the baptizing at easter persons catechised in lent , with many more are now left ; though bellarmin . l . de bonis operibus in particulari c. . tels us , abolitam esse consuetudinem baptizandi catechumenos & absolvendi p●nitentes in pascha●e verum est apud lutheranos : caeterùm apud catholicos , ac praesertim in urbe romana nullus est annus , quo non multi catichumeni in paschate baptizentur ; which i mention to shew , that there ar● some foot-steps yet remaining of the old baptizing . ●p . jewel de●ense of the apology of the church of england , part . . ch . div . . saith , there have been errours and great errours from the beginning : hee mentions there and in the sermon at pauls cross , baptizing for and of the dead , giving the communion to the dead body , and therefore there and in his reply to dr. cole , he rejects customs of the ancient church , and condemnes carrying home to the absent the communion ; mixing water with the wine , and many more things ; and still requires the lords supper and baptism to bee administred according to the institution of christ ; which if mr. cr. or any other can ever shew to have been of infant baptism , i will say as bp. jewel did concerning the . articles propounded at pauls cross , i am content to yeild and ●o subscribe : otherwise mr. cr. and other paedobaptist● by accusing mee as opposing the universal church in austins sense ( though i deny it to be true ) do but con●emn themselves , who with papists d● reject things counted by the writers of the 〈◊〉 a●es apostolical , and of universal observation near the apostles tim●s . nor is the 〈◊〉 pr●p●sition of mr. cr. p. . true , that the whole church 〈◊〉 the ●postles in all ages , collectively considered , cannot err either in do●●rine or discipl●ne . for if the wh●le church might err so in one age , it may also in all ●ges c●llectively considered , the promises being no more 〈◊〉 the church in all ages colle●●ively considered , then in each age distri●utively considered , nor an● means given to them after the apostles colle●●ively considered , to keep from errour , then to each , distributively ; yea the churches nearer the apostles , had more meanes to keep them from errour then other ages , yet they erred in doctrine and discip●ine , as many writers shew , about easter , the millenary opinion , an● many other . as for the promise matth. , . it is not true of the whole church visible , the gates of hell have and do prevail against them , but of the invisible , and yet the promise is not to the invisible that they shall not err , but that they shall not erre finally to damnation , which if they did , then indeed the gates of hell or of death should prevail against them , that is ( as cameron rightly in his pr●lection ) they should not rise to life eternal nor is there a promise joh . . to the wh●le church , but to the apostles , the promise being as well to shew them things to come , as to lead them into all truth : and yet the promise i● not so ma●e to the apostles ▪ but that they might err as peter did gal. . though when they taught the church by writing or preaching , they were so guided as that they should no● err . but of this point of the militant churches erring , i need say no more , but refer mr. cr. to his own author dr. rainold thesi . . were it granted that antiquity did universally p●actise infant baptism , yet nei●her were the present doctrine or practise justified by it , but condemned ; and mr. cr. as truly may be said to p●ea● against the universal church as my self . for it is manifest from the places wh●re there i● mention of it in the ancients , that they ●aught it and pra●●i●ed it , onely upon the opinion of the necessity of i● to save an infant from perishing , and because the very baptism did give grace , remission of original sin , made believers , heirs of the ●ingdome of heaven , and accordingly they practise● it onely in case of danger of death , very seldome , and this they did to unbelievers children , as well as believers , 〈◊〉 a work of charity , not of institution or right by their birth to either but these things mr. cr. pleads against them 〈…〉 well as my self , and both the doctrine and practise of paedobaptists now is against the ancients as well as mine : yea more , in that they had a constant course of baptizing the catechized persons upon a solemn profession of faith , and did in all baptisms , except that of the clinici , that is sick persons baptized in their beds , plunge the whole body , or dip it so as to be under water ▪ which are now clean otherwise and things unknown among paedobaptists . so that as bp. usher in his answer to the ●esuites challenge , in the article about praying for the dead , p. . proves the romanists to have rejected the ancient prayer for the dead , because they pray not for martyrs and others in bliss for their resurrection , but for persons in purgatory to be delivered thence ; so i may truly ●ay , the paedobaptists now have rejected the ancient infant baptism , sith they deny baptism necessary to salvation , or that it gives grace , and they do it onely to believers infants , by sprinkling or perfusion , without mersion , scarce to any but infants , without any solemn course of catechising ordinarily in order to future baptism , and to infants ordinarily out of the case of danger of death , upon pretence of a federal holiness by birth , and ordinance of visible churchmembership unrepealed , unknown to the ancients , and therefore their doctrine and practise hath no patronage from them . mr. cr. p. . saith , that i cunningly alter the subject of the question , when i say infant-sprinkling was not held of the whole church ; and tels me , that he and others do not say so . which intimates that hee and others desert the maintainance of sprinkling infants as ancient ; which diffidence is some argument that the late assembly have forsaken the ancient way of baptism by dipping , having in the directory determined sprinkling as sufficient , and in the practise of many of them taken away the old fonts , more agree●ble to antiquity , and brought in little stone basons near the pulpit or readers pew , like popish holy water pots ▪ fit onely for the novelty of sprinkling after the scottish mod● . n●r is mr. crs. way of powring water on the face , or dipping in part of the head , any more the baptizing christ appointed , or antiquity used , exc●pt in the case of the clinici . 't is true gods ordinances are not destructive to nature , who requires mercy and not sacrifice ; but this proves 〈…〉 baptism should be omitted altogether , and not the ordinance 〈◊〉 , and people mocked as they are by the preacher , that saith falsly , he baptizeth the person , when he doth onely sprinkle or powr water on the face , or dip in part of the head . sect . lxxxix . the testimonies of the ancient writers of the greek church concerning infant baptism are examined , and my exceptions made good against mr cragge , dr. hammond , dr. homes , mr. marshal . the alledging of pseudo . dionisius the areopagite , and clements apostolical constitutions , is but to abuse the world with counterfeit names , discovered by many learned pa●ists and pro●estants to be such , and the like is to be said of justin martyrs forged testimony qu. . ad orthodoxos : which are not rejected because questioned , as mr. cr. seems to intimate , but because they are by many strong evidences proved not to have been the authors , whose names they bear . as for the evidence to matter of fa●t they give , that infants were baptized in that age ●n which they were written , i do readily grant i● ▪ a●d before too ; yet think it no advantage ●or the present pre●ended infant baptism , which is clean otherwise , and upon other reasons : a● particularly , that the baptized infants obtained good things at the resurrection by baptism , but the unbaptized obtain not good things . nor is there a word in that to confirm the novel doctrine of the childrens right to baptism , as being in covenant with the parents . for neither are the parents there said to be believer● , but the bringers ; nor by the parents faith are they said to have right to baptism , but by the faith of the bringers to obtain good things at the resurrection : and therefore in vain doth mr. cr. thus endeavour to hide the deformity of that authors doctrine , which is no better then that which commonly protestant divines condem as popish . more honestly in this then mr. cr. doth bellarmin tom . . l. . de effectu sacram ▪ c. . say , ju●●in . in his apology to antoninus , saith , we obtain remiss●●● of afore committed ●●ns in water , &c. and before he had said , that no man was brought to ba●tism , unless he before believed . like things hee hath in his dialogue with triphon . and ch . . alwayes in the church the custome wa● , that those who would be christians should first be made catechized persons ▪ and long enough instructed , and not baptized unless instru●ted , and firm , and stable in faith , citing to thi● end justin in his apology to antoninus , as showing the manners of the church . as for irenaeus his testimony , lib. . adv . bar . c. . it proves not infant baptism . for though it be true that mr. mede in his diatribe on tit. . . say , none , i trow will deny that when the apostle speaks of saving us by washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , hee speaks of baptism yet it follows not that that the apostle meant by regeneration , baptism ; nor is it likely , sith the word [ regeneration ] is no● to be read [ by the washing which is regeneration ] as if it were by apposition , but [ of regeneration ] as the genitive possessive , and the meaning is by the washing which signifies regeneration , which is before the washing ; yet if it were so , it proves not irenaeus meant by [ renascuntur are born again ] are baptized , sith he saith not are by washing born again , as the apostles phrase is . nor though it be granted that in justin martyr and others of the ancients [ to be regenerated ] is [ to bee baptized ] doth it appear that irenaeus meant it so in that place , unless it were proved it is so onely meant by him and the ancients . nor doth irenaeus l. . c. . term baptism regeneration as dr. homes p. . suggests , but saith thus to the denying of baptism of that generation which is into god. but that indeed the word [ renascuntur are born again ] is not meant of baptism , is proved from the words and the scope of them . for . the words are [ per eum renascun●ur , by him , that is christ , are born again ] and it is clear from the scope of the speech about the fulness of his age as a perfect master , that [ by him ] notes his person according to his humane nature . now if then [ by him are born again ] be as much as [ by him are baptized ] this should bee irenoeus his assertion , that by christ himself in his humane body infants and little ones , and boyes and young men , and elder men , are baptized unto god. but this speech is most manifestly false , for neither did christ baptize any at all in his own person , the evangelist john . , . expresly affirming , that though the pharisees heard that jesus made and baptized more disciples then john , yet jesus himself did not baptize , but his disciples did baptize , nor did the disciples baptize any infant at all as may bee gathered from the whole n. t. . the word which irenaeus expresseth , whereby persons were born again to god by christ , is applied to the example of his age , as the words and sc●pe show . omnem ▪ tatem sanctificans ●or illam quae ad i●fum erat similitudinem . ideo per omnem venit aetatem & infantibus infans factus , sanctificans infantes , in parvulis parvulus sanctificans hanc i●sam habentes aetatem , simul & exemplum illis pictatis effectus & justiti & subjectionis . juvenibu● juvenis exemplum ju●enibus siens & sanctificans domino . sic & senior in senioribus , ut sit perfe●tus magist●● in omnibu● non solum secundum expositionem veritatis , sed secundum aet●tem sanctific●ns simul & seniores , exem●lum ●●sis quoque fiens . but hee was not in his age an example of every age by his ●aptism , as if hee did by it sanctifie every age , for then he should have been baptized in every age but in respect of the holiness o● his humane nature which did rem●in in each age , and so exemplarily san●●ifie each age to god , so as that no age but was capable of holiness by conformity to his example . irenaeus his words are omne● enim venit per semetipsum salvare , omnes inquam qui ●er eum renasc●ntu● in deum , infantes & parvulo● , & pueras & ●uvenes & seniores , 〈◊〉 if the meaning were that christ came ●o 〈◊〉 all that w●re baptized by him , or by his appointment , then he came to save simon magus , and whoever are or have been baptized righ●ly , even judas iscari●t , if he were bap●ized . but in that sense the proposi●ion of irenaeus were most p●lp●bly false , and therefore that sense i● no● to be attri●u●ed to his words . . christ is by irenaeus said to san●●ifie as a perfect master ▪ not onely according to the exposition of truth , but also as an example to them of piety , justice , and subjection ; but this is to be● understood not in respect of his baptism onely , but his whole life , in which he was an example even an infant , for then he did willingly empty himself , took upon him the form of a servant ▪ was made in the likeness of men , and being in fashion a man humbled himself to death , phillip . . , . by all which reasons i presume the readers , who is willing to see truth , will perceive this passage of irenaeus to be wrested by paedobaptists against its meaning , to prove an use of paedobaptism in his time . which i have the more largely insisted on , because indeed it is the onely testimony of credit which paedobaptists have any colour from for infant baptism in ●he d . ce●tury : in the d. century it is not denied , but that infant baptism and many more corruptions were ; yet even then it was very rare , in case onely of danger of death , ●ut of that case disswaded , in that case allowed upon the conceit of giving grace by it , and saving the infant from perishing . but i shall allow mr. cr. and other paedobaptists , to say the most they can for this corruption . origen is alledged next by mr. cr. in rom. . l. . homil . th . on levitic . and . th . on luke . the exceptions against these are . . they are translations , origens greek in the original is lost . the same may be said of st. matthews gospel , which he writ in the hebrew or syriack now lost , the greek copy onely extant . and of the lxx● . translations of the old t. which our saviour followed more exactly then the hebrew original , translations agreeing with the original copy b●ing equally authentick . answ. . there is no certainty , nor probability that matthew did write in hebrew , sai●h the annotator on matth ▪ in his argument of that gospel the new annotations called by some the assemblies at westminster . pareus in his proeme to his commentary on matthew , with the leave of antiquity , eras●●● and other learned interpreters doubt not a little of that opinion that he wrote in hebrew , and the reasons of doubting seem not to be light , which may be seen there , with answer to the objections produced out of antiquity . . whether there were such a translation by lxx . jews , as josephus relates of aristeas , l. . antiq . judaic . c. . i do not so much question , as the particularities of the relation , but the authority of it is much qu●stioned , of which much may be seen in chamier . paustr. cath . tom . . l. . and it is much doubted whether that we have be it , of which i am told learned usher hath written , which i have not seen . but sure our saviour who spake in hebrew or syriack followed it not , nor do i think it safe or right to say that the evang●lists or other holy writers followed it more exactly then the hebrew original . but sure the translation of ruffinus of origens homiles is nothing like to either of these , in which he confesseth he did not exactly follow the original ▪ and it is likely for this reason voss. thes . theol. de paedobap . part . thesi . . said , but we shall the less care for origen , because the things we cited are not extant in greek . but mr. cr. adds . but ly . it is said that the translation is censured by erasmus and perkins , as in something contracting ▪ adding , or altering . what is added is ingeniously confessed by ruffinus the translator himself ; neither does acu●e erasmus , nor judicious perkins , nor any of the ancients most critical , impeach him in the forequoted testimonies ; therefore thi● exception is blank . answ. this exception is good notwithstanding this answer . for . perkins doth not onely censure ruffinus his translation , as in something contracting , adding , or altering ; but also puts origens commentaries on the epistle to the romanes not faithfully translated by ruffinus , among his counte●feit works . and erasmus in his censure of the homilies on leviticus , saith , that a man cannot be certain whether he reads ruffinus , or origen . and because dr. homes saith i make no exception against the translation of the homilie on luke , he may take notice that erasmus in his luke● . . speaks much against the paraphrase of origen on luke and in ●is annot. on luke . . sic enim visus est sentir● quisqui● i● suit cujus extant i● lucam commentarii adamantii titulo , which sh●ws that erasmus took not those commentaries for origens , or at least d●ubted thereof . and i shall add the words of scul●etus , in his medulla patrum , l. . c . jam ruffinu● plurium librorum origenis interpre ●a●t●m ●●surpavit lic●ntiam : ut ademerit , adjecerit , mut●rit , quae sibi viderentur adim●nda , adjicienda , mutanda : ut s●p● incertus sit lector , utrum origenem legat an ruffinum : cum graeca origenis opera non extent ho●●e , ● quibus latina versio ●orrigi possit & emend●ri . and i find cited erasmus his preface on hillary , a● charging ruffinus with this practise of adding and ch●nging be ●nd an interpreter in all his translations , as of eusebius hi● history ▪ but chiefly of origens writings . grot. annot . in matth. . . ●uid o●igenes senserit ex ipsius scriptis difficile est dictu , adeo omnia a ruffi●o sun● interpolata . hieronymus apol. adv . ruff. l. . speaks thus to ruffi●●● concerning some of his translations of origen , novit conscientia ●ua 〈◊〉 addiderris , quae subtra●eris , qu● in utranque partem , ut ●ibi v●sum suerit immut●ris . whereas therefore mr. ms. fr●en● , defence part p . tels me . you call the author of them supposed o●igen : it had been your part before you had so branded them , fi●st to ha●● made it manifest by some undeniable ev●dence or other that they were not o●●gens : i tell him , that being but a respondent , it was enough that i sh●wed suc● evidences a●● did to prove the passages doubtfull , an uncertain witness being no g●od proof . and to dr homes his saying in his animadv● on my exerci● p . truly a man can hardly with patience enoug● look upon mr. 〈◊〉 ●is dealing in this : when we urge origen , he is not origen wi●h him ; but if he do it , then origen must be received ▪ i answer , if the dr. had had 〈…〉 e●ough to have considered my words , he might have observed , that i onely named origen h●m on rom. . but did neither assig● the 〈…〉 for the time in which thos● words were written , no● did 〈…〉 that they were to be received 〈◊〉 his , but added two reasons to 〈◊〉 this imagination , ●s i● by alledging thos● words under the 〈…〉 homil . on rom. . ( by which onely it is known ) i did 〈…〉 his , whereof the one was th● cen●ur● of erasmus , the 〈…〉 austin , nor hierom men●i●● origen as ●vouching 〈…〉 which is enough to sh●w it to be likely , that the passag●● 〈…〉 by ruffinus , though hierom and others mention not these in particular , sith neither doth he mention all the particulars of his dealings in this kind , but chargeth them upon his conscience . nor is it true , that what is added is ingeniously confessed by ruffinus the translator himself : for though the words cited by mr. ms. friend , defence , p. . shew that ruffinus acknowledged of what sort his addi●ions were to his translation of his homilies on leviticus , yet they shew not what in particular they were ; nor is any thing produced to shew the words cited for infant baptism were not one . nor is there any good answer made to my allegation to prove that passage likely to be one , . from the bringing of them in ( as it seemed to me when i read them ) in a patcht manner , not as if they were woven at first with the whole cloth , that is the rest of the writing before and after , but as sewed to it by a botcher , without any handsome coherence ; which neither mr. ms. friend , p. . nor dr. homes p. . deny , and therefore i count worth the observing by the judicious reader , when he shall examine the places , as being of some moment to discern whether they were origens words at first , or ruffinus his assument . . because they are the very words which are frequently used by the refuters of pelagians in the th . century , who denied original sin , whereas origen is taxed as the very father of pelagianism , by hieron . praesat . ad lib. . in hierem. and elsewhere , as teaching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perfection or freedome from sin , contrary to the express words of those cited passages ; and when august . tom . . l . adv . julian . c. , . alledgeth ancients avouching original sin , he never mentions origen ; and therefore these passages , being so express against pelagians , and in the very words used by the refuters of them in augustines time , are to be judged to be added either by ruffinus , whose words to the same purpose on the th . psalm are cited by chamier , pa●str . cath . tom . . l. . c. . § . . and of whom the same author , tom . . l. . c. . § . . saith , sciunt omnes docti exiguam fuisse ruffini in vertendis authoribus religionem , or by some other . nor are these passages in origen onely hints against some piece of pelagianism , which might be conceived by some few in his time , as dr. homes minceth the matter , p. ● . but express arguing against the main point of pelagianism , denying original corruption , and that in the chief arguments used by augustine and others . nor did origen pelagianize a little onely , but is supposed to have first brought in pelagianism into the church , hieron . adv . ruffin . saith dr. owen ▪ display of arminianism , ch . . and though it 's not ●enied that origen did deliver contraries , yet i think it 's hard to find him so often , and so directly arguing against his own tenet . nor do i conceive , however dr. homes , mr. blake , mr. m. and others imagine contradictions in my words which are not so , that ever dr. homes hath found in my writings such clashings against my self . nor do i make such an argument as m. ms friend defence , ● . . answers , ●hat the passages make against the pelagians , and therefore necessarily they were written after the pelagian heresie was broached ( which is a meer shifting fashion in that author who ever he were , used before in answering my argument from irenaeus words and scope , which he answers as if i made it from the scope and not the words ) but thus , these passages are plainly and directly against the pelagians chief point of impeccability , which origen is charged to bee the author of ; therefore according to rivets rule tractat . de patrum autoritate c. . it 's not likely they were origens , to which he answers not . i will add only the words of vossius hist. pelag. l. . part . . th . . p. . idem origines t. . p. . nisi is potius rufinus interpres ( quis enim , quae vel origenis , vel paraphrastae adeò liberi suerint , hodii discern●t ) in cap. ix . ( rectiùs vi. ) ad rom. ubi ait , ab sorde p●ccati m●ndus non est quisquam , etiamsi unius diei fuêrit vita ejus super terram . sed fuse clareque imprimis ●oc de peccato scribit lib. viii . & xii . in levit. nisi isti in leviticum commentarii cyrilli potiùs sint , quando etiam in hujus operibus inveniun●u● , ac , ut in origenianis libri sexdecim , ita inter cyrilliana sexdecim homiliae appellantur , which shews , that that learned writer for paedobaptism , did distrust those very passages cited for infant baptism to have been none of origens . mr. c. a●ds . the third thing objected is , that he calls it a tradition ; so does the apostle things contained in scripture , thes. . . epiphanius calls baptism and other divine truths 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 traditions , and yet quotes scripture for them . bellarmin calls infant baptism a tradition , and yet brings ten places of scripture to prove it . austin affirms lib. . c. . de genes . that the custome of our mother the church in baptising of little ones i● in no wise to be despised , nor to be thought superfluous , nor at all to be believed , unless it were an apostolick tradition , and yet proves the necessity of it from joh. . . unless one be born again of water and the spirit , &c. answ. it was granted in my examen that the greatest points of faith though written , were by the ancients called apostolical traditions , but in this point that the words ascribed to origen meant an unwritten tradition , i alledged . that the phraie● pro hoc & ecclesia ab apostolis traditionem suscepit , and secundum ecclesiae observantiam , are sufficient proof to them who are acquainted with the ancients writings of those times . to this is nothing replied by mr. ms. friend ▪ dr. homes , or m. cr. to shew that these phrases are applied to any other then unwritten traditions , when they are used of ri●es , for the use or institution of which they alledge no text of scripture . . that there is no text of scripture cited for the use or insti●●●ion of infant baptism . to this it is replied , that origen layes the ground on the scriptures . but those scriptures are brought for the proof of origi●al sin , and the necessit● of infant baptism , which were reasons of the churches observance , not proofs of the use and institution of it . and that the scriptures do not give any proof of the use or ●nstitution of infant baptism , but onely grounds of the reasonableness , and why the church took it up , is shewed to have been the judgement of many learned papist● and protestants of later and elder time , in my praecursor sect which may bee easily observed , because they alledge nothing out of scripture about ●nsti●u●ion or practise of it , but of nece●●●ty to save th● infant ; which being a mistake , it appears ●he tradition wa● not from the apostles . besides , as augustin alledged joh. . . for inf●nt baptism , so he also alledged joh ▪ for infant communio● which hee and the ancients observed a● an apostolick tradition , 〈◊〉 many churches observe even to this day ; yet we conclude it is but an unwritten tradition , and so judged by the ancients : all the places of the fathers which cite scripture for infant baptism , infant communion , easter , lent●●ast , and many other things which the ancients observed , shewing rather the reason of their observation , then the institution , as mr. cawdrey speaks in another case , sabb. rediv. part . . chap. . § . . to the th . section of my praecursor , mr. baxter in his praefestinantis morator saith , the ancients took infant baptism , as you say , for an apostolical tradition , but not unwritten . the warrant they supposed written : but not the history de facto . answ. the ancients must needs take infant baptism for an unwritten tradition when they supposed the history neither de facto no● of the institution to be written , though they ●ook the custome of the church ( as austin tom . . l. . de genes . ad litteram c terms i● , having su●h reason from the necessity of it to save them perishing upon the mistake of joh. . . for their warrant . but how poor a mat●●r was taken by the church for a reason to co●tinue a custome , may ●ppear even by those words of austin in that place , which shew also it was taken onely for a custome of the church taken up by them , and not app●inted by th● apostles . for having spoken as doubtfull and uncertain what to say about the question before agitated by him , concerning the creation of the souls of the children from the parents bec●us● of th● objection fro● 〈◊〉 baptism of little ones , he ●hen adds ; yet the custome of ou● mother the church in baptising little one● , is not to be d●sp●sed nor by any mean● to be accounted superfluous , nor a● all to be believed unless it were an apostolical tradition for that little age hath great weight of testimony , which first me●ited to shed bloud for christ. whereby it may appear , . that austin●ook ●ook i● for a custome of the church , without example or institution written . . that he took such a frivolou● p●●●ence as the death of the children of bethlehem slain b● herod , matth. . to have great weight of testimony for the believing of infant bap●ism to have been an apostolical tradition . it would be counted arrogance in me to censure the fathers , yet when i find such silly reasons as austin here and elsewhere , and cyprian epist. ad fid●m , g●ve a● warrant for infant bap●ism , so slightly passed over by mr. b. and ot●ers , a●d thei● testimonies still urged for the credit of infant bap●ism ▪ which do wi●h any that is willing to see the we●kness of them discredit it , i cannot but for the truths sake say , that as in many other things so in this of infa●t baptism the fathers speeches are so vain , as th●t there is more need to bewail the errour they have led pe●ple into , then to the continuance of th● deceiving of people by them , to alledge them for proofs , or to magnifie , justifie or excuse them . mr. b. adds . you might have spared all the . page , where you prove that papists take it for an unwritten tradition . we know they are desirous of any pretence to set tradition above scripture ▪ yet you know bellarmin and others commonly prove it by scripture . the words of becan●s ( not § . . as you say , but § . . ) yeeld , the 〈◊〉 rightly interpre●ed to prove infant baptism , and that 's all that i desire . i had thought that chamiers answer to this might have satisfied you . if you have forgot it , peruse it again tom . . lib. . c. . § . , &c. and tom . . l. . c. . § . . answ. i could not well have spared any part of that page . not onely later papists engaged in the modern controversies , but also elder and disingaged papists and others , were alledged by me , of whom it is not meet to suspect that they did acknowledge that infant baptism is an unwritten tradition , out of a de●re to set tradition above scrip●u●e , but out of cleer evidence of the t●u●h of what they say . nor do i think mr. b. can shew one author until luthers day , who made infant baptism any other then an unwritten tradition , although they produce many of them scriptures for the necessity , reasonableness , and lawfulness of the church to use it , to whose authority they ascribed too much in the appointing such rites , and interpreting ●criptures to that end . i do not finde that the engaged papists cited by me , did set tradition above scripture , b●t that they make it equall i grant . i know bellarmin tom . . l. . de sacram . bapt . c. . brings three arguments from scrip●ure for infant baptism , and c. . saith , deducitur evidenter ex scripturis , u● di●imus , but how he means it hee 〈◊〉 us thus in the same chapter ; that though the argument of the anabaptists from defect of command or example have g●eat force against lutherans , for as much as they use that principle every where , that the ●ite which is not in scripture having no command nor example there , is to be rejected , yet it is of no force against catholicks . for alt●ough we find no command expresly , that we should baptize infants , yet that also is openly enough gathered out of scriptures , as we have shewed above : and besides the tradition of the apostles is of no less authority with us , then scripture , for the apostles spake with the same spirit with which they did write . but that this is an apostolick tradition , wee thence know whence we know the apostolick scripture to be the apostolick scripture ; to wit , from the testimonies of the ancient church . the words of becanus were cited rightly by me out of his manual of controversies l. . c. . § . . ( not § . . as mr. b. corrects me without cause ) and they plainly shew the meaning of those men to be , that the scripture onely proves infant baptism by that sense of it , which is not manifest but by the tradition , and practise of the church i have perused chamier paustr. cath. ( not tom . . as mr. b. directs , i know none such ) but tom . . l. . c. . § . , &c. and tom . . l . c. . § . . but i am not thereby satisfied , that either the ancients took infant baptism for any other then an unwritten tradition or that it ought to be taken . mr. b. proceds . mr. rogers hath made you know he is of another judgement . mr bedford tels me he hath corrected his word● in a later edition . how could you allege dr. field without considering how you wrong'd your self ? is nothing written in scripture but expresly ? yea is not that scripture proof , and plain proof , which shews plainly from scripture the grounds reasons and causes of the necessity of the practise ? dr prideaux thought episcopacy provable from scripture : and therefore if hee thought that infant baptism must bee proved the same way , he is sure against you . for dr. taylour , if you have read all his books , i hope you will no more reckon him amongst protestants , having so much of the body of popery in them . mr. youngs words ( if they be his ) are against you in the thing you cite them for . there are testimonia minùs aperta : and there are testimonia aperta pro fundamto & praemissis , quae sunt minùs aperta direct● pro conclusione . my audaciousness in asserting plain scripture proof must bee b●tter repressed then thus , if you will satisfie men of reason and conscience . answ. i have made known in my apology sect . . how mr. rogers shifts but answers not the allegation i made of his words . and if m. bedford have corrected his words , i wish it have not been f●r the cause sake , against his conscience . if he and mr. rogers can so easily say and unsay , who can give credit to men that can thus blow hot and cold wi●h the same breath ? i know no wrong to my self done , by alleging dr. field . though things be written in scripture which are not so expresly , yet is not that scripture proof , nor plain proof for infant baptism , any more then infant communion , which shews plainly from scripture , pauls conclusion of original sin , rom . . and christs joh. . . which ancients took falsly for grou●ds , reasons and causes of the necessity o● infant baptism , as they did joh. . . of infant communion , yet took the use to bee a custome ●f the church , countenanced from scripture without institution of christ , or practise of the apostles and that this was dr. fields meaning , is plain from his words ; and this seems to have been the common opinion of the prelates of the church of england , by th● words by way of preface used at the solemnity of ba●tism , and in sundry places of the common prayer book , catechism , art . . of the church of england . and after this manner thought dr. prideaux infant baptism and episcopacy proveable by scripture . i have not read all dr. taylors works , nor do i know but that hee is to bee reckoned among protestants . dr. youngs words are much for me , . in that he produceth no precept but that of circumcision for infant baptism . . th●t hee confesseth the practise apostolical to be somewhat obscurer , and therefore addes the cust me of the church from the times of the first ages , which is in effect all one as to resolve the proof of infant baptism finally into the custome of the whole church , especially when he saith ; we cannot smite the anabaptists with plain testimonies . nor can mr. bs. distinction of more or less open testimonies help him , sith dr. young denies , that paedobaptists can smite with open or plain ●estimonies , the anabaptists barking against infant baptism . if mr. bs. audaciousness in asserting plain scripture proof for infant baptism be not yet repressed , nor men of reason and conscience satisfied , i must leave them to the lord. enough i think is said about origens words . i go on . dr. hammond in his defence of infants baptism , pag. . saith thus ; about the same time ( the d. century ) or without question soon after wrote the author ( under the name of dionysius areopagita ) de eccl. hierarch . for as by photius it appears , theodorus presbyter about the year . debated the question , whether that writer were dionysius mentioned in the acts or no. and of this no doubt hath been made ; but that he was a very ancient and learned authour . he therefore in his th . ch . of eccles. hierarch . edit . morel . p. . proposeth the question , as that which may seem to prophane persons ( i. e. heathens ) ridiculous , why children which cannot yet understand divine things , are made partakers of the sacred birth from god , i. e. evidently of baptism ( concerning the baptizing of infants saith maximu● his scholiast ) adding to the same head also , that others in their stead p●onounce the abrenunciations and divine confessions . and his answer is , . that many things which are unknown by us why they are done , have yet causes worthy of god . that we affirm of this the same things which our divine officers of the church being instructed by divine tradition have brought down unto us , and again , our divine guides ( i. e. the apostles saith maximus ) considering this , appointed that infants should thus be admitted according to the sacred manner , nothing can bee more clear then that the apostolical tradition is by this ancient and elegant writer avouched for the baptizing of infants , as a sufficient account of that matter , against the reproaches and scoff● of prophane or heathen men , who deemed it unreasonable . and so there is a most convincing testimony for that time , wherein that author wrote , which must needs be in the th . century , before theodorus presbyters debating the question concerning him , but most probably more ancient , and so to be placed in this d. age . answ. . it is to be noted by the reader , that dr. hammond doth not so much as pretend the antiqui●y of that author to be afore the d. century , and consequently not that dionysius the ar●opagite mentioned act . as some papists would have it , but are by learned men both papists and protestants refuted , whereof may be seen magdeb. centur . . l. . c. . scultet . med . patrum , l. . c ▪ . perkins prepar . to the demonstr of the probleme . . though dr. hammond conceive , that that author is to be placed in the d age by reason of some words of photius , ( which for want of books i cannot examine ) yet salmasius ad col●ium saith p ▪ ● . quamvis subdititius ille ( diony●●us areopagita ) sit auctor nec antiquior quinto seculo . p. . quem certa fides est scripsisse circa finem quinti seculi . and that which scultetus ubi supra observ●s , that in his book of ecclesiastical hierarchy he writes many things of temples , of ●ltars , of holy places , of a qui●e , of consecration of monks , of the tonsure and shaving of heads , i● me thinks a good argument , that the author was som● idle dreaming monk no elder then the th . century , and is so far from being acc●unted a w●iter of esteem among divines , that he is rather censured as one who by his curiosities hath corrupted divinity . . whether those who deemed infan● baptism unreasonable were infidels who derided it , or christians who scrupled it , is no● c●eared by the dr. nor is it a●pare●t that by divine guides are meant the apostles . b●t if it were , that author makes it no other then an unwritten tradition , if he did he would ●ave alledged some scripture for i● ; and the words [ our divine officers being instructed , not as dr. hammond translates it by divine tradition , but unto or of the old tradition have brought down unto us ] do shew , that he counted it a tradition unwritten and delivered from one officer to another until that time . now it is granted that in the end of the d. and following ages , infant baptism , and in like manner infant communion were counted traditions apostolical to save infants from perishing , and such seems to have been the opinion of that author . pamelius annot . . on cyprian de lapsis . tractat hunc locum d. augustinus ep. . ad bonifac. haud obscure autem hic quomodo & supr● indicatur vetus ecclesiae consuetudo communionis parvulorum , qualem etiam indica●e videtur dionysius areopagita sub finem eccles. hierarch . & sua adhuc aetate d. aug. epist. . ad vitalem . all which being conside●ed , this testimony is so far from being a most convinci●g ●estimo●y of the derivation of infant baptism from the apostle● , ●hat considering up●n what ground they observed it , and how much vanity was in the ancients in their retaining many fond customes , and fathering them on the apostles , and when common defending them by scriptures perverted , it is a convincing testimony that infant baptism was no more fro●●he apostles then infant communion , both meer corruptions taken upon mistakes and defended by abuse of scripture . mr. m. mr. cr. dr. homes , dr. hammond alledge gregory nazianzen his th . oration about baptism ▪ in which he adviseth the baptizing of infants , which saith dr. hammond , is a plain testimony of the churches doctrine at that time , the th . century , about the year of christ , . he flourished , and died in the year . against this sundry things are objected , . that the same author saith ( as i find his words in chamier . paustr. cath . tom . l. . c. . § . . ) where he gives instance in his th . oration of baptism , of those who decease without baptism , neither can they receive it , either perhaps by reason of infancy , or some altogether involuntary chance , by which it is that even they , who would , obtain not that gift . from whence it is manifest , that in gregory nazianzens time infants did decease without baptism , and that they could not receive it by reason of infancy . nor is this objection salved by making the reason of these childrens not receiving baptism , because that sometimes it might fall out that christians might not have the opportunity of bringing their children to baptism , because they dwelt among infidels or paynims , where they could not enjoy the benefit of the word and sacraments for themselves or their children ; therefore they were necessitated to put off the baptising of their children , which seems to be mr. ms friends evasion in his defence , p. . in that he applies this passage in nazianzen as well to the hinderance of the baptism of children as of elder persons . for the words of nazianzen shew , that as some deceased without baptism by reason of some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unvoluntary accident , whether by the hand of god or men ; so others he saith deceased 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 barely by reason of infancy , and that by reason of it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were not in power or capacity to receive it . which is a plain testimony , that however in c●se of apparent da●ger of death then infants mi●ht receive baptism according to his opinion , yet ordinarily they were not in the power or capacity to receive it , and so did sometimes die without it . . it is objected , and thereby this observation is confirmed , that when he comes in the same oration to set down what he would have done about infants baptism he resolves . that they should be baptized if danger did urge it , that they might not miss of the common grace , intimating th●t otherwise they should . . he gives his judgement for others that they should wait longer . . the reason he giveth of this longer waiti●g is , that they may hear some mystical or spiritual thing , may be taught to answer somewhat , and if they understand not fully , perfectly , and exa●●ly , yet they are instructed and informed . . that ( not as dr. hammond to give colour to his conceit of sanctifying to be the same with baptizing , cor. . . by this means they may be baptised souls and bodies ; for if this were good reading , . they should baptize themselves , . they should bap●ize ●heir souls which were ridiculous ; ) but , so as that they sanctifie both souls and bodies by or with the great mystery of initiation . which shews he conceived . that by baptism benefit did come to infants though they perceived it not ; that it sanctifies their bodies ; . that it is be●ter done , when children are taught to answer ; . then they sanctifie soul● and bodies , . that danger of death was a forcible impulsive to move to the baptism of in●ants , . that without baptism infants should mis● o● the common 〈◊〉 . to 〈…〉 dr hammond thus , . it is clear that it no way prejudg●s ●he doctrine and practise of the church formerly set down , 〈…〉 him , that infant children , indefinitely considered might be b●ptized ▪ and if dang●r appr●ac●ed , must , how young soever they were : which is as contrary to the an●ipaedobaptist , and so to mr. t. as any thing . answ. . the phrase [ the doctrine and practise of the church ] is according to the pr●latical language ▪ i think as much as the doctrine and practise of the prelates , 〈…〉 to the scripture language is non sense , the church bei●g the number of persons taught , and on whom bap●izing 〈…〉 , not the person● teaching or practising , who are stil●d ●he elders of the 〈◊〉 in s●●ip●ure . . that the elders of any church 〈…〉 n●●●ianzen taug●● that infant children , indefinitely considered , might be baptised , and if d●●ger ●pproached , must , how young soever they w●●e , 〈…〉 not pretended of any besides the co●ncel mention●● in cyp●ian , epist. ● 〈…〉 , whic● it is true determined , in opposition t● 〈◊〉 his scr●ple , the lawfulness of baptizing any day , but not of any infants who were likely ●o live without apparent shew of danger of death , but ●a●her ●he contrary is manifest from their reason , w●y they would h●ve them bapt●zed any day afore th● th . b●cause the son of man ●am to save m●ns souls , as much as in us lies , if it may be , no soul is to be lo●● , and therefore to be baptized any day afore the th . n●w this 〈◊〉 , that 〈…〉 onely of those infants who being in apparent danger of d●ath would be lost , if not baptized . n●w it is true 〈…〉 , and it is as contrary to the 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 position of the papists , tha● ba●tism confers 〈…〉 that infants dying unbaptised pe●●sh , and if 〈…〉 this doctrine and practise of the church , yet it doth prejudice the doctrine and practise of protestant paedobaptists , who , contrary to nazianzens mind , would not have infants baptized in that case onely , or for his reason , but would have infants baptized out of the case of imminent and apparent danger of death , and not deferred , upon a pretence of a covenant right and visible churchmembership as their priviledge , not as necessary to avoid the danger of perishing . dly . ( saith dr. hammond ) that it is but his private opinion pretending not so much as to any part of the church of that , or former ages to authorize it . answ. . that tertullian did in like manner determine as nazianzen did , that infants were not to be baptized but in case of imminent and apparent danger of death , will appear in the examining of his testimony among the latine doctors . . i know no reason why the counsel and opinion of these two should not as well be counted the doctrine and practise of the church , and to be of equal authority as cyprians , and his councels , augustines , and hieroms . dly . ( saith dr. hammond ) that the state of children being so weak and uncertain , that 't is hard to affirm of any that they are not ( for the first three years ) in any danger , his councel for deferring will hardly be ever practical to any . answ. the counsel of nazianzen to baptize in case of danger was not of infants that are in any danger ▪ but of urgent or pressing danger , as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , press , urge , or impel , shews . and thus it is practical , as the use of private baptism in those places where it is used doth sufficiently shew . fourthly , saith he , that the deferring of which nazianzen speaks is most probably to bee understood of those whose ●arents are newly converted , and themselves doubt whether they shall be yet baptised or no , for to such he speaks in that place from p. . a. answ. the reasons being general , this restriction appears groundless , not is the drs. conceit of any validity , that because four pages before ●e speaks to them , therefore that counsel of his concerns their children onely . lastly , saith he , that the deferring till three years old , if it were allowed , would no way satiisfie the antipaedobaptists pretensions ▪ and so still the former passages ought be of force with all , and no heed given to the whispers of mr ● . and others , as if that holy father disswaded baptism in any age unless in case of danger , when he clearly saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let him in the tenderest age be baptised and consecrated to the spirit . answ . why hee should call my words or writings whispers any more then his own , sith they are audible enough were it not that i speak to deaf men who will not hear , i do not deprehend , i imagine they are louder then the doctour would have them . . tha● men should not give heed to my words as well as the doctours , if they seek the truth impartially , i know not , sith where truth is sought both sides are to bee heard . . it is true the deferring baptism till three years old , will not satisfie us as sufficient to rectifie the abuse of infant baptism is granted , no nor till thirty , except the person become a disciple and believer in christ : but it satisfies us in this , that nazianzens judgement was , that little ones should not be baptized till they come to some understanding of the thing signified by baptism , unless in case of imminent and apparent dan●er of death , though we conceive he allowed too short a time to instruct the● . . if the word consecrated be meant of baptism , and from the nayles signifie tender age , yet it is not likely he meant this tender age of infancy , sith hee made persons uncapable of baptisme by reason of infancy , judged it better to have them first instructed ; if he did , he would have it to onely in case of danger of death imminent . but saith dr. homes , p. . . if greg. nazianzen doth give reason why infants should bee baptised , in case they are not likely to live to be of ripe years , it is so much the better for us . ●nsw . i suppose the doctour doth not think with nazianzen , that the danger of dea●h is a sufficient reason for the bapti●zing an infant , for that ariseth from the popish conceits of regenoration by baptism , ex opere operato , and the necessity of it to save an infant from perishing . and therefore nazianzens reason must bee the worse for him , sith it thwarteth his opi●ion of baptizing upon an imagined priviledge of covenant holine●s , and his practise of doing i● ordinarily to infants of churchmembers out of that case . and it would bee considered , that where the ground of a practise is disclaimed the alleging of the practise correspondent to that ground and no further , is impertinent for confirmation of the practise of the same thing , in a different manner , and upon a different ground ; as the protestant divines tell the papists , that their alleging the ancients commemorati●n of the dead , proves not the popish prayi●g for the dead to be ancient , as dr ●sher at large in his answer to the jesuits challenge , sith the popish praying is upon the opinion of purgatory , and for them that are there , the ancients for the apostles , martyrs , c. who are past purgatory , and for their resurrection ; in like manner concerning the allegations of the ancients monkery , which either was necessary onely by reason of the incessant persecutions of those times , or if voluntary , yet with labour of their hands , and so different from the popish mo●kery which is idle , besides gods appointment , vol●n●●r● , superstitious , upon an imagined perfection in that w●ich is indeed sinful . and so for confirmation by laying on of hand , anointing wi●h oyl ▪ use of the signe of the cross , setting up lights and many more , it is fr●quent●y shewed that they countenance no the p●●ish confirmation , extream unction , use of the signe of the cross , lighting candles at noon day in their ●●mples , &c. because they were in different m●nner , and for different reasons and purposes then they are now used by them . and indeed the discovery of the different reasons , manner , and end of rites used b● the ancients , from that they are now used , is of greatest moment to shew the novelty of the popish , prelatical , paedobaptists usages , who have not onely quite departed from the scripture but also from antiquity , even in those things which the ancients practised indeed , but not as they do . secondly , saith dr. homes , he doth give another reason , beside that of partaking of common grace , namely , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for it is better that they should be sanctified without a feeling of it , then to depart without the seal . so he thinks they are sanctified too in infancy as well as at riper years . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a reason also of this to us is circumcision , that was wont to be done on the th . day , &c. answ. the first of these is no other then the partaking of common grace ( for to partake of the common grace is all one as to be sanctified ) onely with a little enlargement . . the d . is indeed rather a preventing of an objection [ that they could not be par●akers of the common grace without perceiving it ] rather then a further reason of baptizing them . and the answer is from two examples , one of curcumcision which was given to infants without the use of reason , the other of the anoining or sprinkling the door posts , whi●h were things insensitive , bringing salvation to the first born , which is such a woodden reason as dr. homes thought fit to let pass in this place . thirdly , saith dr. homes , wee answer that all three reasons stand in force , as well for all believers infants ( god putting them under the promise , gen. ● . ) a for the infants that are in danger of death . answ. wh●tever force there is in the reasons ( which in my apprehension are frivolous ) to prove dr homes his opinion or practise , yet sure in nazianzens intent they are onely for the colouring over of the practise of infant baptism , of any whether believers or unbelievers children ; onely in case of apparent danger of imminent death , and not at all for countenancing baptizing of believers infants onely at all times as federally holy . fourthly , saith dr. homes , that nazianzen urgeth divers divine reasons ( to him evincing ) for the baptism of infants in danger of death : but for the delaying of others not in danger of dea●h , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i give my opinion ●he calls it his opinion . and what is it ? that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such children should stay till three or four years old more , or less ? and what is to be expected from children of that age ? more then from infants toward baptism ? for nazianzen himself confesseth , that though they may hear and answer some spiritual things , yet they understand imperfectly . but doth nazianzen give us there any scripture for this differing ? none . doth he give any reason ? even in effect the same as for baptizing of infants in danger of death , to wit , that they may be sanctified in mind and body . answ. . t is true nazianzen gives one reason for baptizing infants in case of danger of death , which is the sanctifying them by it , not divers reasons the examples of circumcision and anointing the door p●sts , being answers to an objection , as i said before . now that reason is so far from being divine , that it is from a meer superstitious conceit , as if the meer outward baptism did sanctifie : nor is it the same reason in effect for differing baptism three or four years with that which hee gives for infant baptism in case of danger of death . for though he supposeth in both baptism sanctifies , yet he takes infant baptism to sanctifie onely the body , the other to sanctifie body and mind . he supposeth they may learn some spiritual thing , though imperfectly , and so the baptism may be a sign to them though obscure , and there may be some memory of what is done , though confused , which though it be not as it should be , yet it is better and more agreeable to scripture then the infant baptism , where there is no signification to the baptized , nor remembrance of it . . be it granted that nazianzen expresseth but his opinion , and that it betters not the thing much , and his reasons not so right as they should have been , there is in this passage this evident , that infant baptism was no tthen common as now , nor upon such reasons as now , nor approved of as now it is , but out of the case of danger of death imminent , apparently disswaded , and consequently the present common infant baptism an innovation from what was in that age . dr. hammond adds , that chrysostome in his homily to the neophyti , hath these words , for this cause ( i. e. because there be so many benefits of baptism there recited , ten in number ) we baptise children though they have not sins , and that he flourished in the beginning of the fift age. answ. though finde in two homilies , one in the fifth , the other in the sixth tome of chrysostomes works of eton print , some speeches unto the newly inlightned or planted , yet i finde not these words there , nor any where else in any of his homilies . yet i deny not them to bee chrysostomes finding them in augustin tom . . l. . against julian the pelegian , ch . . but perhaps if the words before were viewed , it might be discerned whether the baptism of little ones then used , were onely in case of danger of death apparently imminent , or without that case . it is likely hee meant that infants or little children were baptized onely in case of danger of death imminent , sith many of his homilies express , even that where these words cited were , exhortations to the newly baptized , and the relation of his life testifies , that when hee was persecuted by the empress , and was about to baptize on the solemn festival in which baptism was used , the persons men and women that were to be baptized by him fled away naked , being ready to be baptized upon his apprehension , which shews they then baptized persons naked . and the occasion of the speech , as s●t down by austin , shews it was done upon the conceit of giving them grace , which is manifest by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for this cause and the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , also , in the greek , shews there was mention of baptizing others then little children . and in the same place austin saith , ●ohn chrysostome held , believed , and taught this , not onely that little children were not onely to be baptized , but also to have the eucharist or lords supper , for without his flesh and bloud they could not have life . as for the other place dr. hammond ci●es in chrysostoms th . homily on genesis , that baptism is lawfull in the first age , i yeeld that chrysostome did in that age allow infant baptism , but i think the dr. cannot shew that he held it was to bee done out of the case of apparent danger of imminent death , or that the practise of baptizing them out of that case was ordinary it is most evident by many proofs , that both then and some ag●s after , the ordinary usual baptizing was of chatechized persons at the solemn feasts , when most in the empire were by profession christians . sect . lxxxx . the arguments to prove infant baptism an innovation exam. pag. . are made good against mr. marshal , and dr. homes . whereas mr. m. had said in his sermon pag. that it is manifest out of most of the records that wee have of ●●iquity , both in the greek and latin church , that the christian church hath been in possession of the priviledge of baptising the infants of believers for the space of . years and upwards ; i said in my examen p. . but it is wonder to mee that if it were so manifest as you speak , you should finde nothing in eusebius for it , nor in ignatius . nor in clemens alexandrinus , nor in athanasius , nor in epiphanius , that i mention not oth●rs to this mr. m. or his f●iend replies , that i add three arguments to shew that infant baptism was not known in the greek church , but therein he abuseth me , for i add●d them not to that end , but to shew that it was not so manifest as mr. m. said , that it was not universally known . to my mention of the silence of eusebius , &c. he saith . . the question was not started then , as the fathers spake not clearly of the traduction of original sin , before it was denied by the pelagians . that it is enough to him that none of the ●uthors named by me spake against it . answ . the question of the hieracites was raised in epip●anius his time , which did lead to speak of infants baptism , and ye● epiphanius allegeth not in●ants baptism against them , though it had been for his purpose . . sure eusebius that writes the ec●lesiastical story , and such as wrote the history of the church , had occasion to mention it is ●hey do the b●ptism of persons of age , he use of the lo●ds supper , the meetings of christians , the orders of the church , the ordinations o● bishops and other things and would it i● were so man●f●st as mr. m. said it was . ● . it may be they spake not against it ▪ because there was ●o question about it . bu● it is l●kely there was no question about it , because there was in the first ages no practise of it , or very obscure . for as soon as it began , tertullian put in some exc●ptions against it and after him nazianzen . . if the fathers afore po●●gius arose , did not speak clearly of original sin , then it is likely the pa●●ages in origen on levit. rom. luk. were nor his , sith they speak clearly of the traduction of original sin and that speech of v●ssius hist pel. l ▪ ●art● th . p. . is right ; for who can at this day discern what passages were the brats of origen or his paraphrasts ? hee adds . . if any thing were brought out of ignatius , you would tell mee , that you did not know ignatius when you see him . answ. . though ignatius epistles be very doubtfull , yet i incline to think some of them to be his which we have , and that genuine passages may be discerned from spurious . . if any p●ssage , though spurious , were to be found in him for infant baptism , paedobaptists would not stick to produce it , who make no conscience to allege the words falsly ascribed to justin martyr in the book of questions and answers to the orthodox , and stick not to maintain the allegation of it , as his , th●ugh it mention origen , whom dr. homes imagins justin martyr might hear of , though he died by his confession anno . and origen wa● not born till about . as the passages in his animado ▪ on my exercit. p , , . compared do shew . besides the allegation of the book of ecclesiastical hierarchy , as dionysius the areopogites , the questions ad ●ntiochum , as athana●●us his shew , that neither this authour nor other pae●obaptists are ashamed to allege bastard writings , which say any thing for infant baptism . concerning clemens alexandrinus he tels me defence p. . you desire to know what clemens alexandrinus saith ( which is not true ) why sure he had none but gre●t infants to be his schollers ( i conceive he means p●ofessed pagan infidels , but i t●ink this not true , sith in his writings he directs christians , and opposeth heretiques ) if you ( who pretend to bee acquainted familiarly ( which is very false ) with the secrets of antiquity ) be acquainted with him you 'l know what i mean : he desired ( as it is likely more greek fathers who were converted from paganism did ) to set forth religion in such a way , as might move other pagans to come and confess the christian saith , that so they might bee added to the church by baptism , in such a way as was proper to the baptising of grown men . which is true , and confirms my presumption that when he speaks of baptism , as he doth lib. . paedag . c . and elsewhere , he would have mentioned infant baptism and its benefit to the same end , if it had been in his time in use , as mr. m. in his sermon said . concerning athanas●us he speaks thus , what say you to that passage in athanasius ? where he is shewing how wee are buried with christ in ●aptism , and rise again ; he sayes the dipping of the infant quite under water thrice , and raising of it up again , doth signifie the death of christ and his resurrection upon the third day , athan. dicta & interpretatio script . q . is not that testimony plain ? answ. it is : but wh●se is it ? is not that book one of those suppositi●ious writing in the d . tome of athanasius works , of which scultetus medul patrum part . . l. c. . saith , qu dam nullo judicio videntur con cripta quae se satis produn ? among which also are the quaestions to antiochus , out of which mr. m. or ●is friend pag. , . cite two testimonies , on● out of quaest ▪ and another quaest ▪ and saith , the wo●ds are safe and sound buil● on a ●os●el ground , owned by all the reformed churches ▪ which make infants of believers baptised to enter into the kingdome of heaven , excluding the unbaptized , which hitherto hath b●●n termed popery . nor is hee excused ●rom abusing readers with these bastard writings , by saying , the words following may be erroneous , and yet written by athanasiu● ▪ when the words following are part of the answer , which is erroneous , and they are so connex that they must bee the same authors . as for the words , how do you prove what you allege out of tertullian and gregory nazianzen , and tha● i make this a plea for my self ▪ that my allegations may gain a favourable construction , that my proofs taken out of antiquity do as strongly prove the point in hand , as proofs are usually taken in such matters , no whit excuseth him , sith my proofs are from writings not suspected , his are from treatises judged by many of each tide to he supposititious , mine from passages not excepted against , as his are , and therefore my wondering ceaseth not : and the silence of these , together with epiphanius his not urging infant baptism against hieracites ; yeeld a strong presump●ion of the rarity of infant baptism then , though from thence the non usage bee not syllogistically concluded . and for the words hee brings out of epiphanius , hee might call baptism the great circumcision , yet reject infan● baptism ( though i said not he did , but that it's like●● it was not so manifest as mr. m. said ) as he might call pre●byters priests , and deacons levites , and yet not tye presbytery or deaconship to a tribe , and the age in which each sort ministred in the temple of the jews . i add , that the words cited out of the supposed athanasius prove dipping under water then the usual way of baptism . what dr. homes brings animadv . on my exercit. pag. . out of clemens alexandrinus strom. l. . pag . serves not his turn , but is rather against him , for it mentions onely one baptism of believers . and the same may be s●id of what he brings out of epiphanius his d . book ●om . . contra haeres . . pag. . in which hee makes the perfect circumcision not to be onely of men in the time of their imbecility , but of men and women , all the people of christians indeed , which omits if not excludes infants . ly . saith mr. m or his friend , def . pag. . you reason from the continuance of the questions put to persons when they were to be baptized , and answered by them : which i think because we must conceive children were not able to return an answer to them , thereby you would infer they were not baptized· but i answer , when the gospel was fi●st declared into the world , such as being of age were first taught were then baptized , acts . . & acts . , . after that time such as were taught are said to be catechized : for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the catechism leads men to faith , saith clemens alexandrinus paedag. when such were prepared and made fit to bee baptized , certain questions were propounded to them concerning their faith in christ , their resolution to forsake the devil , &c. which are related by many of the ancients : when those of age afterwards brought their children to baptism , these questions were likewise out to them ( though of themselves they were not able to make answer to them ) but how warrantably , i will not go about to prove ; yet that they were used at infants bap●ism ▪ as well as at the baptism of such as were at age , it appears by balsamon in can. . conc. neocaesar . aug. ep. ad januarium , &c. to all which questions at childrens bap●ism , such as un●ertook their education made answer on their b●half . therefore you cannot by these questions infer that children were not baptized , seeing these authors certifie that questions were put to them , and also tell us who answered for them . answ. 't is true i cannot , nor did i ever intend to prove that children were not baptized in the third age , but the putting the questions to infants to answer , shews that at first none were baptized but such as could answer to them : and sith this was but a ridiculous thing , which this author will not go about to prove to have been done warrantably , to put questions to infants to answer , doubtless it came not from the apostles or apostolical men , who would never have appointed so frivolous a thing ▪ but as this author doth very honestly confess , they baptized such as were taught and catechized , and as he well notes out of clemens alexandrinus , catechism leads men to faith , and that to baptism . and this undeniably proves , as ludovicus vives truly gathered , tom . in august de civit . dei c. . l . tom . . that at first none was baptized till he could ask for it and answer to the questions , which custome he saith he hath heard continued in some cities of ●taly . it is likely those of the greeks about cal●bria● ▪ and so far as i can yet by search discern , this continued the first and second age , to baptize onely persons of age . in the third age , infant baptism with many other corruptions began , and then to keep a mimical shew of the old manner of a●swering the qu●stions , some made answer in the infants name ; which being after objected to augustin , he answers epist. . that the answerer did not speak falsly , when he said the infant did believe , because he had the sacrament of faith : which was indeed no answer , sith the answer was made afore the sacrament , and the sacrament could not make him a believer who was not . now this answer was not to engage them to undertake their education , as this autho● seems to imply , but to assert they did believe afore they were baptized , it being originally the right use of that rite , to baptize none but those who were first believers , till the supersti●ious conceit of an infants perishi●g without baptism first brought it in , as necessary in case of apparent danger of imminent death , and no otherwise ; as those many reliques of antiquity in the speeches of tertullian , nazianzen , and others shew ; besi●es the narrations of baptizing he catechized at solemn times , and the not baptizing of children of believers till they came to age , the inten● of b●ptizing austin when in you●h he was sick , but putting it off when recovered . but after his time , the necessity of it being so vehemently pressed by him , and urged against pelagians , infant baptism in process of time quite swallowed up true baptism , and that which this author here ingenuo●sly confesseth was the primitive use , is now cried down as i● it were an innovation and an heresie . so monstrously hath the ignorance and intemperate speeches of fathers , school-men and others , and the violence and mistakes of luther , calvin , and others , perverted the doctrine of baptism , and oppressed those that have sought to reform it , though if there were no more to be said for them then what here this author , whether mr. marshal or dr. young confesseth , it were enough to sati●fi● men that were willing to be satisfied , that infant baptism was not at fi●st when the gospel went first abroad into the world , and yet th●n doubtless believers had infants ; but that afterwards men brought their children to baptism , when ●orrupt opinions of its necessity and the giving grace by i● were ●eceived , and to al●ay the extream bit●er and unreasonable heat of spirit , which is in the clamarous paedobaptists of our days . but i go on . mr. m. or his friend tels mee , thirdly ▪ you conceive because many children born of christian parents were not baptised when they were young , therefore it was not their custome to baptise infants . for the making good hereof , you bring forth instances of constantin● the great , greg ▪ nazianzen , and chrysostom . afore he speaks of these instances , hee sets down some known reasons , some imagined , why some deferred among the ancients their own baptism ; and he thinks they might upon the like reasons defer their childrens . answ. . that they did defer their childrens baptism confirms my opinion , that it was not ordinary in the greek church to baptize infants . . that if they did defer it upon the reasons imagined by him , then they thought it not necessary to be done in infancy , as paedobaptists do now , chiefly mr. baxter , plain script . proof part . . ch who will have infants baptised immediately , as soon as ever they are disciples ; which by his grounds is at the first instant of their birth , or afore . . that very reason why some deferred baptism to old age to wit the doing away sin , was indeed the very reason of their baptizing infants and nazianzens confutation , telling some that all times were fit for baptism , seeing no time was free from death , shews how ill mr m. chose that passage to put in the title page of his book , unles● he would have readers to baptize upon that opinion , as if thereby they could work out their salvation . . all this discourse about the various reason of mens deferring their own baptism , is quite besides the point about parents deferring their infants baptism , which not to have been upon any of those imagined reasons , but because they thought it not necessary , nor did practise it but in case of apparent danger of imminent death to the infant , will appear by weighing his answer to my instances . ●o that of constantines being not baptized in infancy , though helena his mother were a christian it is said ; . that it appears not that constantines parents were in his infancy become christians . . himself was also an unbeliever many years . to which i reply though it be not apparent that constantius or helena were christians in the infancy of christians , yet those historians that do conceive they were , and yet it being agreed he was not then baptized , o●acitely yeeld ▪ that it was not unusual for the children of believers to be unbaptized till they came to age . dr. homes tels me that i have ill urged constantin a latin , for an instance that baptism of infants was not ordinary in the greek church ▪ but i think otherwise since constantin lived and died in the greek church , and therefore fitly mentione● among them . the next mentioned by me is gregory nazianzen , the son of a christian bishop , and brought up long by him , was not baptized till hee came to be a youth . to this saith mr. m or his friend how do you prove he was the son of a christian bishop ▪ his father was once in the hyp●istarian errour , whether he were converted before gregory was bo●ni● is not exprest . when hee was young he was b●ed at a●●ens under heathens , to which it 's not likely his father would send him if a christian , and why he was not baptised as soon as he was converted to christianity i conjecture the reason was that he might the better prepare himself to receive baptism . answ. i did little imagin that this author would have so far gratified the papists , as to joyn with baronius and other romanists , by shifts to avoid the evidence of this instance , which protestants urge to prove bishops to have then married and begot children after marriage . to his question , i prove him to have been a bishop by the same words of gregory nazianzen himself in the verse of his life ; by which chamier paustrat . cath. tom . . l. . c. . § . . dr. hall honour of the married clergy d . book sect. . and others , prove gregory nazianzen to have been begotten of his father being a bishop , where he brings in his father speaking to perswade him to help him in his charge , in these words , as dr. hall turns them into english out of greek , the years of thy age are not so many as of my priesthood which how to free from baronius his devices of an byperbole , and the inconsistency with the other passages of his fathers baptism , and his study at athens , and seeing julian there , the reader may see in chamier ubi suprà at large . where and in dr. hall he may find , that his mother was also a pious christian when hee was born , and that she begged him of god. and the century writers of magd. say cent . c. . she was born of pious and holy progenitours . and though he travailed abroad , suppose at . years of age , yet was he long brought up by his parents , especially in that time in which he was to have been baptized , if the baptism of infants had been then ordinary : yet was hee not baptized ( as this author confesseth ) till he was of age , after he returned to his father , who it is not likely did send him to be trained up under infidels , however hee might light on their acquaintance and hear them . as for the reason of deferring his baptism , it is in vain to enquire into another cause , then that which gregory nazianzen himself in his th . oration of holy baptism gives , when hee adviseth to baptize infants in case of apparent danger of imminent death , but out of that case to defer it . and this appears to have been the genuine reason , and the practise accordingly in that ( as gregorius presbyter relates in his life ) when sailing to athens a storm arose , so that his life was in apparent danger , he was afraid of dying unbaptised , and resolved to be baptised . the other reason assigned by mr m or his friend , is frivolous ; for though the better to prepare himself to receive baptism , might be the reason of his deferring it so long as he did when he came to age , yet it could not be a reason of his parents deferring it , or of his in infancy . so that notwithstanding these vain shifts of this author , wherein he joyns with the papists , who use the like devices to avoin this testimony urged by protestants to prove the marriage of bishops then , and is refuted by them , yet this one instance is an evident proof , that in the greek church baptism of infants was not ordinary in the fourth century , but used perhaps extraordinarily in case of apparent danger of imminent death . there is the less need of insisting on the instance of chrysostome his birth of christian parents ▪ and educated and baptised at age by miletius , sith that of nazianzen 〈◊〉 pregnant . 't is true i did allege it as grotius 〈◊〉 saying , whom i found counted for a learned man by spanheimius and many others , and i might well make use of him , as protestants sometimes do of papists that are corrupt in point of antiquity . if dr. young were the author of the first part of mr. ms. defence , and of the latin book of the lords day , published in the year . under the name of theophilus p●ylokyriaces loncardiensis , hee himself cites baronius for the lords day in the very title page of his book . what grotius was in his life and studies , i leave for those who knew him to judge ; his books though in many things corrupt , i might be allowed to make use of , as of other learned men with judgement . in this thing i did think i might the more securely take his word , because in the same place annot. in matth. c. ● . . hee declared hee was for infant baptism ; nor do i think it was without some reason which he affirmed , though my time and library yeeld mee not the advantage of making search into this thing . it is enough that it is supposed by learned men probable , which would not bee if it were not then ordinary , that the children of christian parents were baptized after they had themselves been believers . which i● plain by the resolution of the synod of neocaesar●a , elder then the first nicene , which determined ; that a woman with child might be baptized , because the baptism reached not to the fruit of her womb , because in the confession made in baptism , each ones free choise is shewed . for if in the confession in baptism each ones free choise is shewed , then infants were not ordinarily baptized , who could shew no free choise in confession . how this is vindicated from the shifts of mr. m or his friend , may be seen in my apology sect . . p. , . which i think needless to repeat . and for grotius his saying , tha● in every age many of the greeks unto this day , keep the custome of deferring the baptism of little ones , till they could themselves make a confession of their saith , may be true , if either those in italy mentioned by ludov. vives comment in aug. l. . de civit . dei , c. . were greeks , as it is likely in calabria , where are greek churches as i remember brerewood shews in his enquiries of religion , or the georgians children , or the christians children of cholcos we●e greeks ; o● whom heylin in his geography in the description of armenia , out of brerewood , alexand. rosse in his censure of religio medici , &c say ▪ they are not baptized till they be . years old . nor need the anabaptists yet to blush , for all mr. ms. or his friends , or dr homes , or dr. hammonds , or mr. craggs allegations , in saying that the an●ients , especially the greek church , rejected the baptism of infants for many hundred years . for there is no evidence produced for infant baptism in the greek church till nazianzens time , who flourished saith dr. hammond about the year of christ . and died in the year . which is above . years , and hee disswades it except in case of apparent danger of imminent death , and saith some are kep● from baptism by reason of infancy , and as mr. m p. . of his defence saith , all times were fit for baptism , seeing no time was free from death , intimates baptism not fit for some time , except in that case , which may be gathered to have been the onely reason of infant baptism , from what is s●id before of the story of hi● own baptism ; and therefore i doubt not to conclude ▪ that infant baptism was not so ancient in the greek church as i● by mr. m. and others pretended , and as now it is taught by him and others , is a late innovation . sect . lxxxxi . the testimonies of tertullian for infant baptism , and dr. hammonds interpretation of chap. . de anima , are examined with cor. . . i proceed to review the proofs from the latin fathers for infant baptism . mr. cr. brings up tertullian in the fron● , whom he reckons at the end of the second century , others at the beginning of the third , about . or less years after john the apostle , in which short tract of time , the apostolical practise of infant baptism could neither bee clouded , nor forgotten . neither would he have commended his private opinion as more profitable , that the baptism of some infants for some respects should ●e deferred , but have called it down , as an innovation , if the practise of it had not been as transparent to every mans apprehension as if it had been writ with the sun beams . that infant baptism was in practise in tertullians days , it appears by this question lib. de bapt . c. ● . quid festinat innocens aetas ad remissionem peccatorum ? why does innocent age ( meaning children in their infancy ) make hast for remission of sins ? meaning baptism ; which is a clear case , whatsoever semi-socinian grotius say to the contrary . that tertullian was for infant baptism himself appears , that in his book de animà cap. . he presses it , when the child is in danger of death , and gives his reason lib. de bapt . cap. . praescribitur nemini fine baptismo competere salutem , it is prescribed that salvation is to none without baptism . answ. . that tertullian might not be mistaken , or that the practise of infant baptism could not be clouded or forgotten , is said by mr. cragge inconsiderately ; 〈◊〉 afore tertullians time the great differences about keeping easter between polycrates bishop of ephesus , where it 's said , john lived much and died ; and victor of rome , who pretended tradition from peter , the mistake of ●renaus about christs age , with sundry others . . that tertullian would have called it down as an innovation , if the practise of it had not been as transparent to every mans apprehension as if it had been writ with the sun beams , is a confident speech , but of no credit with those who know tertullian hath not called down , the anointing the baptized , giving milk and honey , using the sign of the cross , &c. which yet are undoubted innovations . . it is granted that infant baptism was used in his time , but it is withal true , that hee disswaded it or did call it down as an innovation , except in case of danger of death , and that by sundry reasons ; which if hee had taken ken infant baptism to bee from the apostles , hee would not have done . . the allowing of it in that case arose ( as mr. craggs quotations shew ) from the errour of the necessity of it to salvation . but dr. hammond saith further . tertullian a man of great learning , and a diligent observer and recorder of the customs and practises of the most ancient church , lib. de animâ c. . affirms it from the apostle , ex sanctificato alterutro sexu sanctos procreari ; that when either parent is sanctified or believer , i. e. baptized , the children that are born from them are holy , and this , tam ex seminis praerogativâ , quàm ex institutionis disciplinâ , both by praerogative of their seed , and by the discipline of the institution , i. e. ( as hath been shewed ) by baptism ; adding from the same apostle that delivered those words cor. . . that his meaning was that the children of believers should be understood to be designati sanctitatis ac per hoc salutis , and evidencing what he means thereby , by the following words , of christs definition joh . unless a man be born of water and of the spirit , he shall not enter into the kingdom of god , i. e. non erit sanctus , shall not be holy ; where bap●ism is manifestly the thing by which these children are said to attain that sanctity . and more hee adds in the beginning of the next chapter to the same purpose . and so he is a comp●tent witness for the beginning of that third age . and a little before , in the middle of the first century st. paul delivered these words ; now are your children holy , i. e. your children new born ( as appears by the context and tertullian ) are sanctified as that signifies baptized , in the stile of the new testament and the ancient church . and ch . sect . . st. paul cor. . . speaking of the believers children , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but now are they holy , i. e. it is the present practise of the church ( that apostolical church in st. pauls time ) to admit to baptism the infant children of parents , of whom one is christian , though not of others . that this is the meaning of [ holy ] is there made evident , as by other arguments , so by this , that the ancient fathers who knew the sacred dialect call baptism sanctification , eum qui natus est baptizandum & sanctificandum , in cyprian , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to bee sanctified when they have no feeling of it , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let him be sanctified from the infancy , i. e. baptized then in gregory nazianzen . to which testimonies , and the rest which is there produced of the agreement of the jewish stile ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctifications for baptisms , to which agrees macarius saying of the jewish baptism , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it sanctifies the flesh , hom . . p. . ) because the main difficulty of the interpretation consists herein , i shall now add more , one very ancient before any of these ( within less then an . years after the death of st. john ) tertullian de animâ c. . where speaking of infants and saying ex sanctifica●o alterutro sexu sanctos procreari ; that when either the father or mother is sanctified ( i. e. received as a believer by baptism in the church , the children are holy , &c ( clear evidences of the notion of the word ) this he there proves by these very words of this apostle , caeterum , inquit , immundi nascuntur , else ( so caeterum in tertullians stile is known to be put for alioqui , or the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) were your children unclean ; adding instead of these other words [ but now are they holy ] quasi designatos tamen sanctitatis & per hoc etiam salutis , intelligi volens fidelium filios , hereby willing that wee should understand that the children of believers are the designed or the sealed of holiness ( in the sense , i conceive wherein they that are baptized , are by the ancients frequently said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be sealed ) and thereby of salvation also : and all this , saith he , thus urged by the apostle , ut hujus spei pignora matrimoniis quae retinenda censuerat , patrocinacerentur , that this hope might be a pledge to engage the believing wife or husband not to part from the unbeliever . and hee yet further adds ( still to the confirming of this interpretation ) alioqui meminerat dominicae definitionis , nisi qui nascatur ex aqua & spiritu , non intro●bit in regnum dei , i. e. non erit sanctus . otherwise ( or if this argument of the apostle had not been sufficient ) he would have mentioned the definition of christ , that unless one be born of water and the spirit ( i. e. baptized ) he shall not enter into the ●ingdome of god , i. e. shall not be holy ; shewing still of what holiness he understands the apostles speech , that which the child of the believer is made partaker of by baptism ; concludi●g , ita omnis anima usque eo in adam censetur donec in christo recenseatur , tamdiu immunda , quamdiu recenseatur . every soul is so long inrolled in adam , till it bee anew in christ , and is so long unclean till it be thus anew inrolled ; which as it supposeth every child of adam to bee impure , till it bee thus by baptism made a child of gods , a memb●r of christ , so it gives a full account of that uncleanness , and that holiness of which the apostle speaks ; the former the state of a child of adam unbaptized , the later of him that by baptism is initiated into christ. and p. . hee saith , he found this passage of tertullian ch . . de animá perfectly to accord to his interpretation of cor. . . for which reason ( though i at first intended onely here to examine the passage of tertullian c. . de animâ ) i conceive needfull to examine what dr. hammond hath said in his defence against me , ch . , . about both places , and i doubt not but that it will be made appear by me , that he hath not avoided by his defence the exceptions i brought against his interpretation of cor. . . nor interpreted the apostle right , nor tertullian , nor that they do , as he speaks , perfectly accord , to which i now address my self . . he omits the making good of his paraphrase of the apostles words cor. . , , . except onely those words [ else were your children unclean , but now they are holy ] supposing it unnecessary if the interpretation of the last words appear to be this [ but now are infant children partakers of the priviledge of baptism ] which i acknowledge were true , if he could make good this interpretation without making good the paraphrase of the rest . but there being a manifest coherence of all together , and a plain argumentative consequence implied v. . of the later part from the former , if the interpretation of the later part will not consist with the words going before , nor a good coherence and consequence in his sense making good the rest of his paraphrase , it is necessary he should make good , at least that which if it be not made good against my exceptions , the interpretation of the last clause will not stand . now i conceive there are in my exceptions , most if not all those things , which i urged against his paraphrase and interpretation , which do overthrow it , sith there would be either want of sense , coherence , or consequence in the apostles speech , if dr. hammonds exposition were received , which dr. hammond hath not acquitted it from in his defence . one main thing on which the hinge of his paraphrase and interpretation turnes , is , that the sanctification and holiness there is derived from the faith of the one party , and not on the conjugal relation ; and therefore the term [ believer ] which is not in the text ) is put by him in his paraphrase , and the terms [ husband and wife ] omitted , which the apostle puts down with emphasis . i presume the reader that reads my exceptions from p. . to . will judge the doctors excuse not sufficient , he gives for not answering them more fully , when he assures me it were easie fully to answer them p. ● . but does not , especially in this point on which the controversie between us depends , and therefore not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the dr. terms it . i think the dr. hath made a more immoderate excursion in his heaping up testimonies out of the fathers , in his standing so much on the denial of an enallage , and the force of the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but i resolve to follow him , and hope to overtake him in long running , though his pen and press be quicker in dispatch then mine . the first thing the dr. attempts is , to prove out of the fathers , that the term [ holy cor. . . ] is as much as [ partakers of baptism ] first saith he , the ancient fathers who knew the sacred dialect , call baptism sanctification , and cyprian and nazianzen are cited . to which i answer , . the word of the apostle is [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the adjective [ holy ] which notes a state of discrimination from the unclean , not [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctified ] a participle connoting the action of the sanctifier , as well as the state of the sanctified , and therefore may import baptism , and not the other ; now the two fathers the dr. cites with gregory nyssen after , use not the term [ holy ] but sanctified , and therefore were it granted that they used [ sanctified ] for baptized , yet this proves not they or the apostle to have used [ holy ] for baptized . . i think the fathers he cites , did not in those passages he cites call baptisme sanctification , though they took the person baptized to be sanctified by it . my reasons are from their words . for when cyprian saith [ him who is born to be baptized and sanctified ] he seems to mee to distinguish , not to confound baptism and sanctification ; and when nazianzen in the place quoted useth this phrase , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i think it is ineptly rendered by the dr. p. . by this means they may be baptized souls and bodies : sure the baptism of water doth not touch the soul : and therefore nazianzen is to be so interpreted as though he included baptizing in the phrase of sanctifying as the means of it , ye● he doth not confound them , or call baptism sanctification . the like i imagin might be said of gregory nyssen , if i had his book , whose words it 's likely if the dr. had set down more fully , as hee doth in others , the impertinency of his allegation would have appeared . as for the jewish stile of sanctifications for baptisms ▪ it will be to be considered after . macarius his saying , that the jewish baptism sanctifies the flesh , is not a calling baptism sanctification . but the dr. stands most on tertullian , in which he takes i● , that [ holy ] is used as he conceives paul to use it cor. . for [ partakers of baptism ] so he expounds , designatos sanctitatis , the designed or sealed of holiness , in the sense he conceives , wherein they that are baptised are by the ancients frequently said to be sealed and p. . designati sanctitatis , sure must signifie that they are initiated into christ by the christian right , or sign , or ceremony of baptism , as those which had the heath●nish ceremonies used upon them , were candidati daemoniorum , candidates of the devil in the former , thus early admitted and initiated into their sacra but neither do i conceive the apostle to have used [ holy ] for holiness by baptism , nor that tertullian doth mean that which the dr. would have him , nor do the apostle and tertullian perfectly accord twice in that chapter doth tertullian use the term [ holy ] once [ holiness ] once [ sanctified . ] the fi●st passage is thus . hinc enim & apostolus ex sanctificato alterutro sexu sanctos procreari ait , tàm ex seminis praerogativa , quàm ex institutionis disciplina . from hence the apostle also saith , holy ones to be procreated from either sex , sanctified as well by prerogative of seed , as by discipline of institution . by either father or mother sanctified the dr. co●ceives meant , when either the father or mother is received as a believer by baptism into the church , by [ holy ] baptized , for he makes the notion of [ holy ] in those words of tertullian to be the same with designatos sanctitatis , which he interprets by sealed , that is baptised in the ancients language . pag. . [ holy ] appears to bee this [ but now are your infant children partakers of the priviledge of baptism . ] but that tertullian mean by [ sanctified , baptised ] is not proved by the dr. and his paraphrase makes it in cor. . . to import being converted to the faith ; and so tertullian ad uxorem l. . explains what he means by [ sanctified ] gained by the wise to the faith . i deny not that hee made baptism a means of that sanctification , but he doth not call ( as the dr. saith ) baptism sanctification , but the whole fact of gods grace , as hee saith , dei gratia illud sanctificat quod invenit , by teaching and inlightning the person sanctified . yet herein tertullian and the dr. accord not with the apostle , for the apostle supposeth cor. . . the person said to be sanctified still an unbeliever , otherwise his reason had been nothing to confirm the resolution v. , . which was the believing yoke fellow might live still with the unbeliever , for the unbelieving husband , that is the husband continuing an unbeliever is sanctified ; but this cannot bee meant either of conversion to the faith or baptism , for then he should be a believer when hee is said to bee sanctified , so that it is plain neither tertullians expression concurs with the d●ctors notion , not do the dr. and tertullian agree with paul. the other words sanctos procreari , sith he restrains to infants , the sanctity pag. . hath this sense ; the infants are procreated holy , that is baptized , for thus he speaks ; the apostle in that place makes the sanctification or bap●ism of the children a benefit of the believing parents cohabiting with the unbeliever . but herein neither doth tertullian or the dr. accord with paul , for hee makes not the holiness of the children to be the benefit of the parents faith , but of their conjugal relation , nor doth the dr. accord with tertullian . for the holiness there meant by tertullian , is not meant onely of the time of infancy . . because he saith it to be as well , ex institutionis disciplinâ , as ex seminis praerogativa . where ex seminis prerogativa the dr. agrees p. . to be in that he is not so polluted by their idolatrous ceremonies , and so is in some degree holy , not federal holiness , as mr. m. pag. . would the whole scope shewing that to be the meaning , that they are not so polluted as heathens children . now ex institutionis disciplina , the dr. would have have p ● . meant the doctrine of baptism instituted by christ in his church ; for by this it is that baptism was allowed to those that were ex alterutro sexu sanctificato procreati , born of parents of which either of them was christian. thus in his book de bapt . c. . he uses a like phrase , tingi disciplina religionis , to be sprinkled with the discipline of religion , meaning evidently being baptised . where the dr. by the way doth ill render tingi by sprinkled , no grammarian doth so render it , nor doth tertullian so mean it , as in the place may be observed . but to the thing . this cannot be the meaning of tertullian in that place . . the words are these , ut opinor autem aliud est asperg● vel interci●i violentià maris aliud tingi disciplina religionis . as i think it is one thing to be sprinkled or intercepted with the violence of the sea , as peter was when against his will he was in the sea , ano●her thing to be baptised with the discipline of religion , that is , out of a willing yeilding to baptism by the learning of religion , that is , knowledge and profession of faith which religion prompts to , meaning plainly not the doctrine or command of christ , but the learning or discipline of his own heart , in the sense that tertullian useth after , disciplina verecundiae & modestiae . and that sense which i give the scope leads to , which is to shew neither the apostles being dashed with the waves when the ship was almost covered , nor peters being almost drowned , was christian baptism , because it was not out of a voluntary disposition from that discipline of religion which doth dispose to it , but the violence of the sea . . tertullian could not mean as the dr. would , sith there is no such institution of christ either expressed by the evangelists , or by tertullian . the evangelists express no title to baptism , but by the persons own faith or discipleship who is to be baptised , as is proved review part . sect . . and tertullian in his book of baptism a little after the words cited by the dr. c. . expresseth the institution of baptism thus ; lex enim tingendi imposita est & forma praescriptae , i●e ( inquit ) docete nationes , tingentos eas in nomen patri● & filii & spiritus sancti . huic legi collata definitio illa : nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua & spiritu non intrabit in regnum coelorum : obstrinxi● fidem ad baptismi necessitatem . itaqae omnes exinde credentes tingebantur . and after , nam & prius est pr●dicare , posterius tingere , and in the th . chapter gives his reasons against the hastening the ba●tism of infants , as being not necessary , which if he had acknowle●ged such an institution , as the dr. imagins , he could not have said , and directs according to the institution ▪ let them come when they grow up , when they learn , when they are taught wherefore they come , let them hee made christians when they can know christ ; and af●er prescribes , how they should go to baptism , with prayer , fasting , kneeling , confessing of sins ; and in his book of repentance , cals baptism the sealing of repentance , no where is any such institution of infants baptism from the faith of one parent ; and therefore i conclude , ex institutionis disciplina , is not meant as dr. hammond conceives . on the other side i conceive that he means by [ sanctos procreari ] real holiness future , and by ex institutionis disciplina , learning of the doctrine or institution of christ. that the holiness is real saving holiness , is gathered first from the joyning together , designati sanctitatis ac per hoc etiam salutis , which plainly shews , that the holiness meant is that by which is salvation . . this is confirmed , in that it is made the effect of being born by water and the spirit . . shall enter into the kingdome of heaven , is expounded by sanctus , holy . . it is opposed to that uncleanness which they had in adam , and it is expressed to bee in christ , which must needs bee a real saving holiness . . if it bee that which is by baptism , then it is not baptism it self , as the dr. expounds it , but a consequent on it , which is no other then saving holiness . . this is proved from the expression of designatos sanctitatis ac per hoc salutis ; this is confessed by the dr. to express the same with procreari sanctos ex institutionis disciplina , but designatos sanctitatis hath the sense of designed to be holy , that is , a believer by education , and so saved . i will set down the words of a letter of my learned and much honoured friend and quondam scholler dr. wilkins , warden of wadham colledge in oxford , who at my request imployed a friend to enquire into the sense of this passage of tertullian , and thus wrote to me : as for that phrase , designatos sanctitatis & salutis , though this reading be approved by pamelius , and de la cerda in their editions , yet 't is corrected by johannes a wouwer , by that famous manuscript copy of fulvius ursinus , now in the vatican , which hath it designatos sanctitati . which reading is now generally received as the most genuine , as may appear by rigaltius and georgius ambianus in his last and best edition of tertullian at paris . and the most proper sense of this phrase must be , such as are designed by their parents to a religious education , which is likewise signified by that other expression ex instituionis disciplina . so that designatos sanctitati ac per hec etiam saluti , plainly expresseth , that whereas the pagan idolaters did dedicate and consecrate their children to devils , and thereby made them unclean , the children of the believer were brought into the world holy , both in that they were free from such pollution , and also by prayer , vow , or resolution designed or intended to be made holy by the disciplin of christian institution , and so to be saved , or to enter into the kingdome of heaven , by faith in christ. . this sense is confirmed by the words [ hujus spei pignora , the pledges of this hope ] which shew that the holiness and salvation meant in the words before , was a thing not then existent at the childrens birth , but intended and hoped for at age , upon endeavours used by the believing parent . . this interpretation of designatos sanctitatis , or sanctitati , is confirmed by the expressions of hierome , epist. . to paulinus , where he saith , of thy second problem tertullian hath discoursed in his books of monogamy , affirming the children of believers to be called holy , because they were as it were candidati fidei , candidates of faith , and not polluted with any of the filth of idolatry . which phrase expresseth the same with designatos sanctitati , and alludes to those who in rome stood for offices in white , and notes that the infants were as it were in expectation of being believers , and baptized , quod veluti ambiunt & expectant baptismum , as erasmus in his note on hierom , epist. . to paulinus , or designed , that is intended to be holy by the parents , that is to be bred up to profess the faith , and so to be baptized . to this saith dr. hammond . . this of tertullian is not the place that s. hierom refers to , but some other in his books de monogamia , that one book which we now have under that title affording us no such discourse on that subject as s. hierom mentions . answ. . it is more probable that this is the place hierom meant , the expressions so agreeing and the matter , and that hierom writing in hast mistook the the title of the book , and the term candidatos used in the chapter before for designatos . . however , whether it were so or otherwise , the words cited by hierom being to the same purpose will fitly explain the other . dly . ( saith dr. hammond ) all that s. hierom cites out of that ( not this ) place of tertullian is very reconcilable with what tertullian saith in this place , and with his opinion that the infants of christians were baptized ; for , sai●h he , they were quasi candidati fidei , as it were candidates of faith . candidates were they that stood for any office , qui candidâ sumptâ veste consulatum , praturam , &c. postulabant , who putting on white garments sued for any office ; and so candidates of faith , they that sue for this condition in the church of god , that of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 believers , to which by baptism they are assumed , and accordingly were to be brought to the font , like such candidates , in white garments as they that were to be sanctified ; i. e. baptized , among the jews exod. . . were also to wash their cloathes or put on clean garments . answ. 't is true both places of tertullian are very reconcilable , but not dr. hammonds interpretation of designatos sanctitatis or sanctitati with candidatos fidei . for dr. hammonds designatos is as much baptized , but candidatos notes onely a future thing in expectation , and candidatos fidei answering to designatos sanctitatis or sanctitati shews the holiness to be saith , and that tending to salvation , not the bare title of a believer by baptism , but such a faith as saves effectually ac per hoc etiam salutis , which puts it out of doubt , that a real holiness though in intention and expectation onely , and a real saving faith though future , is meant by tertullian in both expressions , which is not avoided by the doctors answer . again ( saith the dr. ) when he saith of them that they were holy as the vessels of the temple were holy , though they had no sense , this is a clear laying of a ground , whereby children may be deemed capable of this relative holiness , which is to be had by baptism , though as yet they are not capable ( for want of understanding ) of inherent holiness . answ. 't is true hierom expresseth another way of holiness which infants might have without understanding , but that this should be by baptism he doth not intimate . but if he did , yet he doth not make it the meaning of tertullians candidatos fidei , and therefore serves not his turn to prove that by holiness tertullian meant baptism . yea , this very thing is against it , sith it is added as another way of sanctity then that he first mentioned , as the words simulque considera do seem to me to intimate ; and therefore candidatos fidei and designatos sanctitatis or sanctitati is not partakers of baptism in tertullian , as the dr. would have it . lastly ( saith the dr. ) when he mentions it as an idiom of scripture to call them holy , who are clensed , purified , expiated , speaking of those legal lustrations or purifications , this gives an account of st. pauls using the word in the christian church for the christian lustration , purification , expiation , i. e. for baptism . answ. . it gives but a lame account till it be proved st. paul useth holy for baptized . . though hierom do say the scripture names holy for clean , purified , and expiated ; yet this doth not prove he conceived the scripture puts holy for christian baptism . yet again saith the dr. and by the way it appears by st. hierom , that he useth promiscuously sancti and sanctificati , and so that gives us authority to interpret [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] in the end of the verse , in the same sense in which [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is used in the beginning for those that are brought and received to baptism . all which are far enough from serving any of mr. t. his interests , and might have inclined him to have omitted that testimony of st. hieroms , if he had more maturely considered of it . answ. how this testimony serves my turn upon more mature consideration of it ▪ is shewed . it is true sancti and sanctificati are used of the same persons , yet they are not the same ; as calidum and calefactum may be said of the same wood , yet are not the same , sith fire may be said to be hot , but not heated ▪ and god may be said to be holy , but not sanctified . but the dr. f●rge●s himself when he would have sanctified and holy , cor. . . to be interpreted in the same sense . for then when it is said the unbeliever hath been sanctified , that is , brought to the faith by the wives counsel and example , it should be said of the infant children that they are in the same sense holy , that is , converted to the faith . yet further saith the dr. nay . i must add , that mr. t. his rendring of candidati and designati sanctitatis and candidati fidei by being in designation of being believers and baptized , intended to be holy by the parents , to be bred up to the faith and so baptized ; is a most groundless inconvenient interpretation . for if by holiness and faith be meant inherent holiness and faith , then baptism it self is the ceremony of consecrating and designing them to this , and so precedent to that holiness ( not subsequent to it as mr. t. sets it ) and accordingly in the church writings the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 believers , is never bestowed on any , though of mature age and knowledge ; till after they be baptized , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 illuminate and believers being all one , promiscuously used for those that have received baptism , in opposition to catechumeni those that have not yet attained it : but if holiness and faith be the relative holiness then infants being as capable of that as vessels in the temple , they might be presently designed and consecrated to that , and not first bred up in the faith , before they were partakers of it . answ. that the interpretation i give is neither groundless nor inconvenient , is manifest by the phrase it self , designatos sanctitatis or sanctitati ; the doctors interpretation is altogether groundless and inconvenient ; for he renders p. . designed by sealed , but he shews not that ever [ designatos ] signifies [ sealed , ] the term for that is obsignatos , tertullian in his book of repentance saith , lavacrum illud ( meaning baptism ) est obsignatio fidei , quae fides a paenitentiae fide incipitur & commendatur : the term [ designed ] notes plainly the intention of the parent , and this is also plain from the next words [ of this hope ] which shews it is not baptism in infancy they were designed to , for that they need not hope for , they might presently have ; but real holiness of saving faith , and therefore expressed by candidatos fidei , and that this holiness was such a real holiness , appears by the addition ac per hoc etiam salutis , there being no other holiness that could bring salvation , and the term candidatos imports a suing or seeking for it , as erasmus expresseth it veluti ambiunt & expectant ; and dr. hammond p. . himself expresseth candidatos daemoniorum candidates of the devils , ambitious to be admitted thus early into his service . so that all these reasons shew , that designatos sanctitatis notes the intention of the parents with endeavours to produce faith , and so to bring them to baptism . which is the more evident if it be read [ designatos sanctitati ] for that case plainly intimates a tendency to it . as for designatos sanctitatis , which the dr. that he may 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 serve his own purpose ( which he elsewhere causlesly imputes to me ) turns [ sealed of holiness ] i crave leave to tell the dr. that in my appehension it makes tertullian speak non-sense ; and that it cannot be the meaning that it should note the consecrating by baptism , it appears in that it should have been then sanctitate , or per sanctitatem . besides , they are said to be designatos salutis as well as sanctitatis and i hope the dr. will not render it sealed of salvation as if it noted the ceremony of consecrating , salvation in no writer being put for for baptism : and however , here it 's a distinct thing from sanctity , which the dr. makes baptism . so that i think i may safely infer , that tertullian means by [ designatos sanctitatis or sanctitati rather ] not baptism , but the intention of the parents ( for of their act he speaks in opposition to the gentile parents designing their children to devils ; or as the terms are vowing , deputing to them , making them candidatos ) to breed them up in the faith , and so to bring them to baptism and salvation , which his words in his book de baptismo , c. . shew he approved as best , except necessity through danger of death imminent and apparent urged the hastening of it in little ones ; regularly he would have faith first , and baptism after , as the words in his book of baptism , and repentance forecited shew . and whereas the dr. saith ▪ in the church writings the word believers is never bestowed on any though of mature age and knowledge till after they be baptized , and so faith must be subsequent not antecedent to baptism as i set it , the dr. may perceive his mistake by the words of tertullian before quoted , itaque omnes credentes tingibantur , lavacrum illud est obsignatio fidei ; and this is agreeable to christs speech , mar. . . he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , to which perhaps tertullian alluded when he said designatos sanctitati , which grotius follows , annot. ad cor. . . or condidatos fidei ac per hoc etiam saluti , or salutis . the relative holiness which vessels in the temple were capable of , is far from tertullians meaning : certainly tertullians phrase of designed to holiness is so far from proving infant baptism , that it proves the contrary , sith he is not said to be designatus or candidatus who hath an office or thing in possession , but he who is chosen to it or seeks for it , and so hath it onely in intention or expectation . as designatus saluti is not actually saved , so neither designatus sanctitati actually baptized . he adds . the children of believers , i willingly grant , are presumed to be by them intended to be bred up to the faith ; but if that intention of theirs bring forth no present effect , if they do not bring them thus early and enter them into the church by baptism , why should that bare intention of the parents give them the stile of holy or sanctified , or how should these infant children , which may die before they come t● those years , receive any present priviledge or benefit by that which is thus far removed from them ? answ. the drs. words answer this , p. . when he saith , whosoever is born from either parent christian , hath one priviledge by nature , by his very seed , that he is not so polluted as the idolatrous heathens children by their idolatrous ceremonies , and so is in some degree holy in that respect , which is a present effect , opposite to the present evil effect which the heathen idolatrous devotions brought on their children . he goes on . now for the d . part of this suggestion , that what i say from tertullian , that they were holy , i. e. baptized in seminis praerogativâ is a mistake , i must answer by viewing of the proofs of his assertion : first , saith he , the holiness was not onely by prerogative of birth , but ex institutionis disciplinâ . this is sure a strange proof , it is not so , because it is not onely so . 't is certain that tertullian saith they are holy ex institutionis disciplinâ , and as certain that they are as much so by prerogative of their birth ; the words are most clear , tam ex seminis praerogativâ quam ex institutionis disciplinâ , and that i never denied the second could not be mistaken in affirming the first . answ. the words of the dr. in his th . quaere gave occasion to think he conceived the children of believers to be termed holy by tertullian , that is baptized either onely or chiefly by prerogative of birth as that which gave them title to baptism . but it seems he means that they had title to it , also by the discipline of institution . but p. . he expounds the prerogative of birth onely by their freedome from idolarous pollution ; now sure that gave not title to baptism : an idolaters child if born without those pollutions had not title to baptism , he must be born according to his own exposition of the apostles and tertullians words of one believer : & therfore he must needs be mistaken in affirming the first , and he must needs miss tertullians meaning if by holy be meant baptized , and says they are baptized tàm ex seminis praerogativâ if that give no title to it . the dr. expounds ex institutionis disciplinâ thus , by the doctrine of baptism instituted by christ , by which baptism is allowed to children born of either parent christian. i have shewed before how short his proof is of this sense . for present , tertullians words , according to this exposition have an inept tautology ; for it is all one as to say , they are baptized as well by prerogative of birth as by prerogative of birth , the prerogative of birth by which they are baptized being all one with their priviledge of being born of a believer , which is acc●rding to the dr. the discipline of insti●ution . if tertullian had meant as the dr. would have it , he had not used tàm and quàm , but said , holy by prerogati●e of birth according to the discipline of institution ; whence it may appear , that the discipline of institution and holiness is another thing then the dr. interprets it , nor by his interpretation of the place will the place be clear . for not two priviledges ( as the dr. makes it ) but one priviledge , to wit , holiness , which the dr. makes to be baptism , is ascribed to them by a double means , freedome from heathenish pollutions , and the doctrine of christ about infants baptism : whereas freedome from such pollutions gives no title to baptism , and if prerogative of birth ●e meant of federal holiness ( of which is not a word there ) and the discipline of institution be the doctrine allowing baptism to the child born of a believer , it is either an inept tautology , both being the same , or incongruous speech , which should be thus mended , by prerogative of birth according to the doctrine of baptism by christ in his church , imagined by the dr. but not extant in scripture , nor tertullian . nor do tertullians words following , de anima , c . every soul is so long enrolled in adam till it be inrolled in christ , and is so long unclean till it be thus anew enrolled , prove that by [ holy ] tertullian meant baptized . for in the words before ( to which [ ita so ] refer ) he makes holy to be the same with entring into the kingdome of heaven , and the enrolrolling in christ he makes the same with being born of water and the spirit . of the words ascribed to origen and athanasius , enough hath been said already . neither cyprians nor chrysostomes words prove , that [ holy ] is as much as [ partaker of baptism ] in the ancients language , much less in the apostles cor. . . to the further consideration of which i proceed after dr. hammond . i excepted against dr. hammonds paraphrase of cor. . . that the term [ young children of christians ] is more then is in the text , which hath onely [ your children ] which is not restrained to infancy . but the dr. proves it is , . by the authority of tertullian , who saith of infant children , that they are procreated holy ; and nazianzen , who using this phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in all probability refers to this place of the apostle , and so renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their children , by their infant children . answ. . tertullian doth not say that the infant children are holy in infancy onely . no● is there any thing said to make it in any sort probable , that nazianzen referred to that place of the apostle , in which is neither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor that hee should render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when he useth not the same case nor number the apostle doth , but onely useth a description of young age , which is not to my remembrance expressed by the other word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any where . . the other reasons are farther from the thing . for neither doth it appear to be the general doctrine of the fathers , that the parents faith profits onely their infant children , some of them do reason from the faith of the woman of canaan , the faith of the ruler of the synagogue , that faith of parents profits children who were not infants . the other reason runs upon this mistake , which should be proved to be the apostles meaning ( but is denied by me ) ●hat he makes cor. . . sanctification or baptism of the children , a benefit of the believing parents cohabiting with the unbeliever . i said [ holy ] for [ admitted to baptism ] is a sense of the word no where else found . but this the dr. hopes he hath cleared , both from the usage of ●he word among the first christian writers , which is answered , and the jewish , of which in that which followes , and saith . i might further do it even by this apostles dialect , who in his inscriptions of most of his epistles to the churches , calls all those to whom he writes , i. e. the baptized christians of those churches holy , rom. . . and sanctified and holy , cor. . . cor. . . eph. . . phil. . . col. . . among whom no doubt there were many , who were no otherwise holy or sanctified , then as all baptized christians are capable of that stile . answ. true : but do●h hee term any infant so in those places ? or give them those titles barely from baptism ? doth he not expresly term them saints by their calling not by their baptism ? the drs. allegations have not yet altered my minde , but i think as i did his interpretation new , strange and absurd . i alleged aug. l. . de pecc . mer. & remiss . c. . ( and the like is said l. · c. . ) saying the sanctification of what sort soever it be , which the apostle said to be in the children o● believers , yet it belongs not to that question of baptism , and the beginning or remission of sins to this the dr. answers , t is true he saith it belongs not to that question , whether the sanctifying of the catechumeni after a sort by the sign of christ , and prayer of imposition of hands without baptism , profits him not to the entring the kingdome of heaven . and the meaning is such sanctification , except it be that of baptism , cannot avail to remission of sins . answ. the dr. mistakes in making the question to be of the catechumeni , mentioned c. . it is of the children of believers , who being termed holy , cor. . . should seem not to need baptism , which augustin answers , . by mentioning divers sorts of sanctification , but not determining which is there meant . . by resolving that what ever the sanctification be which the apostle said to be in the children of believers ( not as the dr makes it of the catechumeni ) it belongs not to that ●uestion of baptism ( not as the dr. doth palpably pervert the words p. . whatsoever sanctification it can be imagined to be that the apostle speaks of , except it be that of baptism , it cannot avail to the remission of sins , &c. ) to wit mentioned ch . . whether it exclude necessity of baptism , original sin and the remission of it in the children of believers termed holy . which is plainly against the dr. who will have it meant onely of baptism of infants of believers , by vertue of the believing parents faith . as for my other objections against his paraphrase not answered , i am so far from assurance that the dr. can easily answer them , that by this answer i judge he can answer none of them . sect . lxxxxii . dr. hammonds imagined evidence from [ hath been sanctified ] for his sense of the fore part of cor. . . is nullified , and my opinion of enallage of tense vindicated . ch. . sect. the dr. saith thus . first then to my first evidence taken from the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath been sanctified ] referring to some past known examples and experiences , of this kinde ( of a wives converting the husband , &c. ) he hath a double answer . . that as my paraphrase expresseth it , it should signifie not onely that an unbelieving husband hath been sanctified , but also that there is hope they will , and so it should note not onely some example past , but also some to come , of which there can be a less reasonable account given , then of putting it in the present tense in english. . that the enallage or change of tense is frequent ch . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the present tense for the future , and here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the next v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the preter for the present , and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , not , hath been , but is sanctified , or if in the preter tense , yet that to be understood of a past thing , yet continued , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 john . . notes an act still continued in force . to these two i reply briefly , and first to the former ( the same which hee had mentioned before , and excepted against as an excess in my paraphrase , but both there and here without the least cause ; ) for in my paraphrase i look upon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as a verb of the preter tense , and as such onely adapt the sense to it , referring it not to future hopes , but to past experiments or examples ; onely because examples are rhetorical syllogismes , and what hath been frequently experimented may also reasonably be hoped , i suppose that the apostle so meant these examples , as grounds of hoping the like for the future , not making this of the future any part of the sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the preter , but explicating the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or rational importance ( which is somewhat more then the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the apostles speech ) and supposing this conclusion to lye hid under this premise , as it is ordinary in all discourse to set down the ●remises , distinctly leaving the conclusion by every ones reason to be drawn from thence , without setting it down explicitly . answ. that the dr. in his paraphrase qu. . § . . of his letter , put so much as i have noted review part . . sect . . of which there is nothing in the text expressed , is not justified by this plea. for what ever addition a paraphrast be allowed , yet sure no paraphrast is allowed to express that which he conceives it deducible from the sense of the words in thirteen lines , and the sense it self onely in three and especially when he layes that in his paraphrase as the ground of his argument for his position , which hath not a word in the text to leade to that inference . sure i had great cause to except against his paraphrase , which was so monstrous as to be defective in letting down what was the chief thing to be heeded in the apostles speech , to wit , the relation of husband and wife , and so extremely exuberant , as to express that as done often , which is mentioned in the singular number onely , and ascribe the sanctifying to the conversation not at all expressed , and put in a long inference that hath no intimation in the text , and mention an act of the church , of which there is no inkling there or near it , or any where else in scripture , and so many wayes corrupting the sense , as i shew ubi suprà , especially in the main supposing a mention made of a husband converted by the wife , and yet the husband expressed by the apostle as continuing an unbeliever , and a husbands being sanctified by the wife which is ever ascribed to gods spirit , never to any apostle , to make that which is used as a reason of lawfulness , as if it were a motive from an advantage , to make that as a rhetorical motive , which is a logical proof , to make that which was a rare contingent event , which might and it's likely did as often fail as a convincing argument to settle the conscience in the lawfulness of cohabitation , with other faults , as being so audacious an attempt , as i think no approved writer can bee shewed to have made , nor any considerate reader will allow of . nor would it ever have come into my thoughts , that so learned a man as dr hammond is , should have vented such a conceit as this is in his letter and annotations , did i not finde him set to maintain what the church of england , that is the prelates , held or appointed , as others what the scottish or new-english churches approve of . as for his excuse of his dealing in his paraphrase , it is too narrow a plaister for such a sore . for neither is any thing cor. . . set down as an example to move the will the judgement being before setled , nor any rhetorical syllogism , used , but a logical ; as the termes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , used rom. . . cor. . , , , &c. shew , nor doth the dr. prove , but suppose the apostle so meant ; nor doth he answer the allegations i bring to the contrary , review par . . § . . and his words here do imply as if this were the conclusion , that it is probable and a ground of hope , that the unbelieving yoke fellow will be converted by the believer cohabiting , and this the premise , for it hath often so come to pass , whereas there is not the least intimation of that conclusion in the text , and it is manifest by the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ] that v. . is a proof of the determination or conclusion v. , . concerning the lawfulness of married persons living together in disparity of religion , not of dr. hammonds imagined as tacitely implied conclusion . but hee saith . wherein that i was not mistaken , i had all assurance from v. . where the argument is prest , and the conclusion inferred more explicitely . for what knowest thou o wife , whether thou shalt save thy husband — and the like mentioned in the paraphrase from pet. . . answ. dr. hammond had no assurance from v. . that the unbelieving husband is oft converted by the wife ; the thing being expressed so doubtfully as an uncertain contingent though possible , and so with some hope sperable , [ hierom. com . in cor. . . in dubium quidem ●osuit sed semper ambiguam melius evenire credenda sunt . ] much less that there is a conclusion of the probability of the converting of the infidel yoke●fellow , v. . deducible from the example and experiment of what was done in time past , v. . being neither explication nor proof of what is said v. . but a motive to make the thing determined as lawfull , v. , . more swasible , or a motive to what is said v. . that god hath called us in peace . in my apprehension if v. . were as the dr. meanes , the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified , that is converted by the wife often , and therefore it is probable , or there is a ground of hope , or it is to be presumed , it will be so for the future , the apostle had said the same v. . which is said v. . and so there would have been a meer tautology in the apostles speeches , which is not to bee conceived . as for pet. . though it shew such an event possible , yet not frequent , nor is there in peters words the least hint that pauls words cor. . . are to be understood as the dr. would have them . but the dr. hath another string to his bow , which he thus urgeth . and herein i have the authority of st. hierom ; as for my rendring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the woman ( so i find it per mulierem in his . epist. ad latam , and so marianus victorius in his scholia assures us , all the copies ancient and printed read it ) so also for this part of my paraphrase . he produceth an example , because ( saith he on the place ) it hath often happened that the husband hath been gained by the wife , according to that of st. peter , that if any man believe not the word , he should without the word be gained by the conversation of the wife , that is , that when they shall see them changed to the better , all may know that the law of god might have been taken in exchange for so inveterate a custome . and so again ep. . ad laetam , speaking of the like example , we have well ( saith he ) and happily expected ( i. e. not mist of our expe●●ation ) an holy and faithfull house sanctifies an unbeliever , adding his conceipt , that jupiter himself if he had had such a kin●ed , might have been brought to the faith of christ. answ. 't is true that hierom comment . in cor. . . reads per mulierem , but in ep ad laetam he reads in uxore , and august . tom . l. . de peccat . merit . & remis . c. . and that in hierom in both places the terms fidelem and fideli are , but not in august . though he render the later part thus , & sanctificatur mulier infidelis in fratre . and i find in the scholies of erasmus 〈◊〉 roterdam , on hieroms epistle to laeta this the fir●● note . for he is san●●●fied ] the place is with s. paul in the former epistle to the corinthians cap. . in the ancient copies we find written in the husband , not by the husband , and in the wife , not by the woman . for the greek hath it , for the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife , and the unbelieving wife in the husband . moreover what the interpreter adds [ believer and believer ] he hath done for explication . by which it may appear , that erasmus saith otherwise then the dr. saith marianus victorius doth , and for my part i imagine erasmus is the more credible scholiast of the two . 't is true that hierom com . in cor. . . hath the words the dr. allegeth , but then he addeth , which the dr. leaves out . item ideo vir & uxor invicem sanctificantur : quia ex traditione dei sanctae sunt nuptiae . that is , likewise therefore the husband and wife are to each other or for each other , or in course sanctified , because by the tradition of god mariages are holy , which expresseth hieromes second and better thoughts . by which it may appear that hierom took of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as if it were in the present tense . and for the other place of hierom it is true , hierom hath the words the dr. cites , if the word [ jovem ] be not put for [ proavum ] or some such word as erasmus thinks . but then it is plain from the words left out by the dr. jam candidatus est fidei quem filiorum & nepotum credens turba circumdat . that is , he is as one that would be baptized , who hath a company of believing children & grandchildren about him . that the sanctifying is not made the priviledge of the husband in respect of his wife , or of the children by the parent , but also the grandfather is conceived likely to be sanctified by the children and grandchildren , and all is ascribed to example and instruction , with this express speech , fiunt non nascuntur christiani ; christians are made , not born such . and though hierome saith of laeta's daughter paula , that she was prius christo consecrata quàm genita , and she had conceived her , antè votis quam utero , yet the words cui imperatori , cui exercitui nutriatur , cui promissa sit , regis amplexibus parat , de spiritualibus nuptiis sciscitantem , do seem to me to imitate that young paula was not then baptized , which if right it is manifest , that children of believers were not baptized ordinarily then in infancy . and me thinks the words of hierom in his commentary on cor. . . on the words , else should your children be unclean , but now are they holy ; if it were not so as i say your children would yet remain infidels : for it would often happen that the children would follow those parents , who had believed . upon which hope he would have it believed , that the other might bee saved as well by the example of the children as by the marriage ; shew that hierom understood not the holiness of the children , of their baptism in infancy , but of their embracing the faith , by following the example of the believing parent , and in like manner the unbelieving parent was sanctified according to him , as well by the example of the children as the marriage . so that however dr. hammonds paraphrase in the forepart seems to have some countenance from these passages of hierome , yet the latter part is expounded clean besides the drs. minde , and the passages yeeld us such hints of the not baptizing of infants of believers , as do overthrow his conceit ; as if the infants of believers were then ordinarily baptized . dr. hammond adds . as for his d answer , i acknowledge such enallages to be ordinary in the hebrew , and sometimes , but more rarely , found in the hebraizing greeks or hellenists , and consequently , that where the context will not bear the sense of the tense which is used , there may be place for this grammatical figure , which yet is not to be made use of unnecessarily . accordingly if there were any convincing reason offered , that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the preter tense ] could not be born , ● should not then doubt to interpret it by this figure , either in the present or some other tense : but when ( as here it is evident ) there is no such necessity , then . i cannot think fit to do so , ( 't is dangerous to forsake the literal sense , when it may be commodiously retained , and fly to either a rhetorical or grammatical figure ; ) and having no motive to do so , i am next to consider , what is the properest importance of that phrase in that tense wherein it is used , and then i could not ( i believe ) have fallen upon any thing more natural , then that the preter form of speech referred to the past experiences , &c. this is a full satisfaction to his answer . answ. . the drs. acknowledging that such enallages may be , and sometimes are , shews that his interpretation is not necessary , and therefore his inference thereupon not certain , which is enough to make good my answer . . it is to me a convincing reason , that there is an enallage of the preter tense for the present , not onely because camerarius and other learned men conceive so , and our translator so render i● ; but also because by the making it to import an experience past●nely , a sense is brought in ( as i have shewed in my examen , par ▪ . sect . in the first part of the review , sect . , &c. in the second part of the review , sect . . ) which is neither agreeing with the words , nor pertinent or accommodate to the matter of the apostle speech however the dr. believe , yet it is shewed here , and review par . . sect . that to refer the sanctifying cor. . to past experiences , is not natural . for the apostles speech being a reason , not of the commodiousness of living together in disparity of religion , ( for if it had been of i● , they could have better resolved themselves then the apostle , yea , they could have refuted the apostle , and re●●●ied his reason against him , we find it not so by experience , ) but of the lawfulness , the reason must be conceived to import right , not event ; and so the speech is not of what hath been , which onely mentions experience , but of what is de jure , or is lawfull ; and as piscator rightly schol. in cor. . . sanctificatus est ] id est , usus illius ut sanctus , & conscientiam uxoris non ladens concessus est . and in this manner it is usual to express such sentences in the preter tense , yet to be expounded by an enallage , as in the same chapter the next v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the preter tense , yet rightly rendred [ is not under bondage , ] v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therei● difference , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is short , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is known , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 am justified , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye do stand , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are perished , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is opened , tit. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are defiled , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 usually is written , matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given . yet ( saith the dr. ) i may in the d. place ex abundanti add thus much more , that the utmost he can pretend to by the enallage ( whether of the preter for the present , or of the preter understood of a past thing yet continued ) is as commodious fo● my interpretation as the preter is : for if it be in the present , then the importance will be , that it is a matter of present daily experience ; if in the past continued , then that it is matter both of past and present experience , that the unbeliever is thus wrought upon by the believer , and brought into the church by baptism , and this a just ground of hope , that so it may be again in any particular instance , and so a competent motive that the believing wife should abide with the infidel husband , and not depart as long as he will live peaceably with her : and this sure was s. hieroms understanding in the words newly cited , the apostle makes instance , produceth example that this hath ( and doth ) ordinarily come to pass ; and to that also agrees the th . verse , for how knowest thou &c. answ. . if it be in the present tense , the importance will not be , that it is a matter of present daily experience , unless it be proved the term [ sanctified ] notes an iterated event , which i conceive and think i have proved to import right or lawfulness , so as that the sense is , the unbelieving husband is sanctified to or in respect of his wife ( as beza , piscator , grotius , &c. do conceive ) that is , lawfully used , which is the onely sense that fits the determination of the apostle , which is not of the conveniency or commodiousness or advantage in living together , but of the lawfulness , v. , . nor if it be in the past continued , will it fit the drs. sense . for the drs. sense is as if sanctification were the same with conversion , but that is an act transeunt , past , and not continued ; and if it include baptism , as the dr. would have it , the sense should be , the unbelieving husband hath been converted , and brought to baptism , and continues to be converted and brought to baptism by the conversation of the wi●e ; which cannot be said of the person said to be sanctified : yea , there is no less then an implicite contradiction in the words so expounded ; for then it should be thus meant , the unbelieving husband ( remaining an unbeliever , as the ap●stles speech supposeth , else it were not apposite to the case v. , . ) is and continues to be wrought upon by the believer , and brought into the church by baptism . yet were this exposition allowed , it would no whit avail to the drs. purpose , unless the futurity of the same act were implied in that imagined sense of the dr. for it is not the event past that is the motive of cohabitation , but the hope of that which may be : and yet the dr. tels us in his paraphrase , he looks upon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as a verb of the preter tense , and as such onely adapts the sense to it , referring it not to future hopes but to past experiences or examples . ye● he saith , the apostle produceth example , and to that also exactly agrees the th . v. for how knowest thou , &c. which doth not at all mention an example or past experience , which could not be not done being once done , but onely an uncertain and doubtfull futurity . so that in this again the drs. speeches do enterfere , and his speech is most false , that the words v. . do exactly agree with the meaning of the forepart of the th . v. as the dr. expounds it . i omit that there is not a word that intimates the bringing into the church by baptism ; and i● there were , it would import a strange experience of a wives bringing her husband into the church by baptism , which cannot be avoided by saying through her perswasion it is done by another ; for the text expresly assigns the sanctification , what or however it be , to the wives individual person , if then , to her as an agent it is done by her . but i have said so much here , and review d . par . sect . . of this exposition , as me thinks should make this exposition of the dr. to be exploded by the learned . yet he writes further thus . as for mr. t. his instances of enallage , though now i may safely yeeld them all , and rather gain then lose by them , i shall yet in the last place add my sense , that no one of them is any way convincing ; that of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not , c. . . for his passion was now so near approaching , that it might very fitly be represented as present , and so that be the force of the present tense . answ. this instance is convincing , that enallage of tense is sometimes used , it being used in this place , as piscat . scholie in locum , enallage temporis & metaphora . and the drs. reason doth no whit weaken the allegation of it ; for that which notes paulo post futurum , a future near approaching , is not without an enallage expressed by the present tense . and for the enallage in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i conceive with the drs. good leave , that usually the greeks express by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what the apostle doth by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so there is an enallage of tense or mood ; and for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , v. . if an enallage be not conceived , then it must not import the present tense at all , whereas the dr. grants it notes the preter tense yet continued , which is all one as to say it notes the present tense , which without an enallage it could not do . as for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , joh. . . i wonder the dr. would intimate as if it were produced by me to the prejudice of the preter tense , when my very words say expresly it notes a past thing yet continued , and bring it to that purpose : but how this is far from being still perfectly agreeable to his notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the unbeliever oft hath been , and daily is converted ; and brought to baptism by the believer , is apparent , in that the continuation of the condemnation , joh. . . is onely in respect of legal force and vertue ; but the sanctification cor. . . is as he expounds it , a meer transeunt act that imports no legal right , force , and vertue , and therefore cannot be said to be continued as the other can . and how vain the drs. sense is , and how justifiable my interpretation is by an enallage , is shewed before . sect . xciii . dr. hammonds rendring [ by ] cor. . . is reselled , and my rendring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ to ] justified . sect. . the dr. omitting what i said , that if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be rendred [ in ] it serves my turn , not his unless it be proved it must be rendred [ by , ] and his supplement [ by the company and conversation of the believer ] proved , saith somewhat to my reasons of adhering to the reading of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. , . by [ to ] . because this seems to me the fairest , easiest , and most congruous sense . but . he tels me this is the begging of the question , that it is such must not be here supposed when it should be proved . to which i reply , . if it be the fairest , easiest , and most congruous sense , it is some proof . . that it is the onely sense which can stand with the words and scope of the apostle , and is avouched so by learned men , ancient and later protestants and papists , is shewed at large in my exercit. sect . . examen , par . . sect . review , par . . sect . , &c. here sect . , &c. refutat . of dr. savage his position in latine , sect . . antidote , sect . . besides what occurs in my apology , postscript , plea , which is abundantly sufficient for acquitting me from begging the question , which he doth so importunely urge . . that the dr. rather begs the question then proves his interpretation , hath and will appear in this and the former view taken of it . but the dr. sullies the beauty of my sense of the apostles words thus . the fairness of the sense ( simply taken ) is not attempted to bee proved , which yet doth stand in great need of it ; for beside the redundance , or unusual sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some other parts of the rendering are none of the fairest . as . the believer may abide ] as if it were simply free to abide or not abide , whereas in the present case ( when the unbeliever is willing to abide with the believer ) the believer is by the apostle counselled at least , if not commanded ( and that is more then a liberty that he may . ) to him the apostle saith ( and his sayings have sure authority with them ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let him not put away . nay the interdict of christ belonging to all but that one case of fornication , mat. . and mat. . it is evident that by force thereof the believing man must not put away the unbeliever , that is , guilty of no more but unbelief . and accordingly the preface 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — but for the rest ( or for the other questions v. , , , . say i , not the lord ) must be applied not to the immediate consequents of the believers not putting away the unbeliever , that will stay with him ( for that had been determined by christ in the negative ) but to v. . if the unbelieving depart , i. e. if the unbeliever will not dwell with the believer , except the believer forsake his or her religion , what shall be done then ? and to that the apostles counsel is , that marriage inslaves not the believer so far . all which is a competent prejudice to that part or mr. t his sense , the believer may abide ; for if that bee it even when the unbeliever is willing to abide , then she may also depart , if shee rather chuse , which will be found contrary to christs precept . answ nil tam recte dictum quod non possit malè interpretando depravarier , as the dr. doth here . 't is true i did in the second part of this review sect. p. , . say ( and gave reasons of it ) that the apostle cor. . , . did dot forbid leaving each other , but resolve onely the lawfulness of living together , but this did not intimate as if the believer were simply free to abide or not abide with the unbelieving yoke-fellow willing to live with her , that when the unbeliever is willing to abide the believing wife may also depart if she rather chuse , but this , that notwithstanding the continuance of the unbelief of the husband , the wife might live with him , it was not unlawfull . so that i asserted not a liberty of le●ving him upon any cause , but a liberty of continuing with him , notwithstanding that reason ● and therefore the dr. did ill to paraphrase v. . be ought not to put her away , v. ● . let her by no meanes separate from him . and i gave some reason from v. . where the permitting to depart is a matter of liberty , as the word [ is not in bondage ) shews , and yet the word is as much imperative as v. ● , . and i might have added , that v. . let him not be uncircumcised , let him not be circumcised , are there expressions of liberty , not of duty ( as the reason v. . shews ) and yet are as imperative as the forms used v. , . [ see before of this , p. , , . ] 't is true , to be circumcised might be forbidden elsewhere , as gal. . , . and might be then unlawfull , and so it might be forbidden in other texts for the beliver to leave husband except in case of fornication , but in these texts liberty onely is expressed , in the one of living together notwithstanding the unbelief of the one party , in the other continuing in that state of circumcision or uncircumcision , as they were in when they were first called to the faith of christ. and this i think the dr. should prefer as the most suitable to his own exposition , sith the frequent conversion of the infidel by the believer , v. . is no fit reason to make it an unlawfull thing for her to depart , but onely it may be some motive of her will to continue , as the dr. makes it . and i conceive v. , , . are to be so expounded , sith it is clear that to be a servant , or unmarried are some of the callings there mentioned , as v. , , . shew , but if it were a command of duty meant , v. , , . the servant must remain a servant contrary to v. . and the unmarried not marry , contrary to v . and v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seek not a wife , being as prohibitive a form as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. , . an unmarried man should be forbidden to woe a woman , contrary to v. . which exempts marriage from sin . so that indeed all these imperative speeches v. , , , , , , , , . are to be expounded as resolutions of liberty , and so precepts of indulgence , not absolute prohibitions or injunctions of what may in no case be done , or must be done as precepts of empire . and it is as when a person scrupling whether shee may be married to a priest woing her is resolved thus , let her not forsake him , she is not commanded to marry him , but resolved she may ; so it is in this case . which being rightly understood , there is nothing opposite in my speech to christs speeches matth . or . about not putting away except in case of fornication , nor the apostles cor. . . nor need i trouble my self whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be the other questions , v. , , , . though i think it should have been then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor whether it be to be applied to v. . as the dr. would , though it bee in my apprehension very unlikely . secondly , saith the dr. in this rendring , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is englished ( not by is or hath been sanctified , but ● by [ is as if he were sanctified ] which indeed acknowledgeth that he is not , truely ( in any respect ) sanctified , and then sure this will be a strange construction , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the unbeliever ( is not sanctified but ) is as if he were sanctified , when yet litterally it must be rendered the unbeliever hath been , or ( to gratifie mr. t. ) is or continues to be sanctified : for what is this but to interpret an affirmative by interposing a negation , he is sanctified , by he is not ? for so assuredly he is not , if he onely be as if he were . answ. according to me , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendered or englished [ is or hath been sanctified ] but is expounded [ is as if hee were sanctified ] as cor. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendered or englished [ were baptized ] yet by grotius expounded annot . cor. . . baptizali sunt , id est , quasi baptizati sunt . which me thinks should be no strange construction to dr. hammond , who by his answer to dr. owen ch . . § . , . seems to be acquainted with grotius his annotations and other writings , and to account of him as a very pious , learned judicious man. in this exposition of grotius there is as much an interpretation of an affirmative by interp●sing a negation as in mine ; the like i may say of other passages in the new testament , as when it is said heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dead or killed of abraham then alive , matth. . . he that doth the will of his father in heaven is christs mother , who never bare him in the womb , matth. . . they prophane , who did holy service , matth. . . they made themselves eunuchs , who were not gelded . the dr. adds . with this let any man compare the interpretation i have given , the unbeliever hath been sanctified by the believer , i. e. examples there are of such as have been thus converted from their unbelief , and this sense inforced by the interrogation , v. . for what knowest thou , o woman , whether thou shalt save the man , &c. and by s. peters aphorism of daily observation pet. . . the husband that obeyes not the word , i. e. the unbeliever , may probably bee gained by the conversation of the wife , and then let him impartially pass judgement , which is the fairest and easiest rendering . answ. content : if he will but take notice of this one thing ( besides many more ) that the unbelieving husband , mentioned cor. . . is said to be sanctified even then when he was an unbeliever . which is proved from the text . . the unbelieving huusband , and wife , v. . are the same with the unbelieving husband and wife mentioned v. , . for the expression v. . is rela●ive to v. , . otherwise it were impertinent to resolve the question , and the particle [ for v. . ] shewing it to be a reason of the determination v. , . plainly proves it to bee meant of the same persons who continued unbelievers . . from v. . where the resolution of the doubt is continued , but if the unbeliever depart , let him depart ; which is not to bee expounded of him that was an unbeliever but is not , but of him who is when he departs , which is confirmed in that he is opposed to a brother or sister , who if he were converted should be a brother . . from v. . where still the unbeliever mentioned v. , , , . is supposed to remain an unbeliever , else why should his saving be made doubtfull and contingent ? and if the dr. stand to his own conceit , as if v. . exactly agreed with v. . it must be so construed by himself . . his own tertullian who saith ex sanctificato alterutro sexu , not utraque , and hierome , and all other that add fidelem , v. . and all the interpreters i know , that do make the sanctifying to be v. . in disparity of religion , do agree in this , that the unbeliever v. . is meant of one that continues an unbeliever , otherwise he should not be distinguished from the believer , who was also an unbeliever formerly . which if but observed , i dare put it to any reader of ordinary capacity to judge between us , whether the doctors sense be not so far from being the fairest and easiest , that it is indeed a foul one , such as doth imply a contradiction to the apostles words , the dr. supposing the unbeliever v. . once such but not so then , the apostle supposing him to continue so , the dr. expounding it thus ; he that was once an unbeliever , another then the unbeliever meant v. , . hath been sanctified by the believing wife , that is converted ; and the apostle , he that is still an unbeliever , the same mentioned v. , . is sanctified ; and whether mine [ the believer may abide with the unbelieving yoke-fellow : for though he be an unbeliever , yet in or to his wife , he is as if he were sanctified ; it 's all one in respect of lawfull [ omitted by the dr. ) conjugal use as if he were sanctified ] be not the fairest , easiest , and most congruous sense , that is to be given of those words cor. . . the dr. goes on thus ; his d . reason is , because , though the dr. deny it , yet i aver that the notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for to as a sign of the dative case , is found more then once in the n. t. the truth of this i must now examine , by the proofs offered for the affirmation . and his first proof is , from matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this , saith he , cannot be eluded , because the same speech is mark. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and rendred by beza in the former place fecerunt ei , they did to him . . whereas the dr. saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , upon him or against him , it had been meet the dr. should have given one instance at least , of such construction , which , saith he , i do not believe he can do . to this i answer , . by two ready instances in one verse , luk. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; if they do these things ( our ordinary english reads , in a green tree , but the sense and propriety directs us to ) on the green tree , what shall be done on the dry ? here is the very phrase that is used in that place of matthew , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . answ. i did aver more then the dr. sets down , that the notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for [ to ] may with good congruity and grammatical analogy be affixt to it , cor. . . and i used these words left out by the dr. whereas he saith ( meaning the dr ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on him or against him , and that this is an ordinary acception , of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; i grant that it is an ordinary acception to use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but not in the sense hee here conceives , to wit , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes on or against a person . now the doctors instance is but in one verse , and therefore shewes not the ordinary acception , and then whereas i expected an instance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it notes on or against a person , hee brings an instance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on a tree , and this is not of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against , which had been more for his purpose , but for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on , though in the sense of [ on him ] 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rather answers to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . yet the dr. brings no authority but his own for this his conceit of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for on , luk. . . i add ; that though the latin and english translators i have yet looked into , do render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 luk. . . by in not on , super or contrà ( which are the drs. notions ) yet i find diodati in his italian translation reading , al legno verde al legno secco , which i take to be as much [ to ] as if it were expressed by ligno viridi , and ligno sicco or arido , without a preposition , and if so , the dr. hath brought a text which further confirms my conceit against himself . in which i am the more confident , because when an object patient , or a subject suffering is expressed with the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is either never or very rarely said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as in luk. . , , . & . . & . , , , , . & . . & . . & . . acts . . & . . luk. . . & . . & . . acts . . & . . & . . & . , . omitting other writers . which is an argument to me , that luk. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is redundant , and that it is best transiated , to the dry , to the green , and so the dr. hath given an instance for my notion , not for his own . he saith further . and then for s. marks using ( in the parallel place ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] that proves not that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was rendundant in s. matthew , or that it was a bare signe of the dative case , it being free to s. mark to use any other expression , different from s. matthew so he retained the sense , as it is clear in this place he doth , doing injuries to him , being all one in effect with upon or against him , though the phrases are not the same , which no way inferrs that when the change of the phrase changes the sense , it were lawfull so to vary it , as in the place we have in hand ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) 't is on both sides supposed to do . answ. the dr. omits these words of mine [ however if he could , yet me thinks it should satisfie , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes no more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ and is a sign of the dative case , because mark who seems to have abbreviated matthew , so expresseth it , and the common use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whe● it notes dealings of man to man whether good or bad , is usually expressed by the dative case , as matth. . . & . & . . & . , . & . , . ] to which the dr. makes no answer , and that which he saith here , doth confirm my notion . for if it were free to mark to use any other expression different from matthew , so he retained the sense , and yet he doth not use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but put onely the dative case to express the same ; that matthew did it appears that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are to the same sense and phrase , to express injuries done to john baptist , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in matthew is redundant , and nothing expressed by it but what is expressed in mark in the dative case without it . what the dr. means when he saith [ 't is on both sides supposed ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) changes the sense , and so it is unlawful to vary it ] i do not understand , our present question is not whether it bee lawfull to change a phrase when the sense is not changed , and unlawful when it is : but whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . bee redundant and a signe of the dative case : this is yet unanswerably proved to bee by this , that mark. . . the same phrase and matter is expressed without it , and there it notes onely the dative case , and that is the usual manner of expression without 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be taken as redundant , and a sign of the dative case onely , matth. . . the dr. goes on , a second instance which he conceivs cannot bee eluded , is col. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was preached to every creature , and this he proves to be the onely rendering ; . because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to preach , is commonly with a dative case of the object , and though tim. . . it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet our translators and the vulgar , and beza read it , unto the gentiles , as if there it noted onely a dative case ; and if it were among the gentipes there , yet here col. . ● . it cannot be so , because the object is in the singular number , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it is for among , is joyned still with a noun of the plural . and . that which , saith he , puts this out of all doubt , is , that the phrase col. . answers mark . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but to all this the answer is ready , by observing the exact notation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the whole creation ( as we render it rom. . . ) as that signifies the whole , but especially the gentile world , and accordingly is exprest by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , matth. . and farther explained by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the whole world , to which in s. mark they are appointed to go , when they were thus to preach the gospel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to this whole creation . now of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this notion it is clear , that though it be in the singular number , yet that hath the power of the plural , as the word [ world ] and the like , which every body knowes is a noun of multitude , and so is creation , when it is thus taken for the whole created world , meaning the world of men , the nations or people of the world . and then there can be no doubt but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is most exactly thus to be rendred , preached in , or among the whole creation , as gal. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 preach in the nations , or among the gentiles , and so tim. . . also , though the sense being no way altered by rendering it unto the whole creation , or every creature , and the gentiles , it matters little though it be promiscuously thus rendred , which yet must not prescribe for other places where the sense is so much changed by the divers rendring as in this case , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is observable , where therefore the litteral rendering being retained , we are not reasonably to conclude any more from it , then that litteral reading will afford us . as for the parallel phrase mark. . that doutless can prove nothing ; . because the places are not nor can be thought parallel . . because if they were ( as of matth. . and mark . hath been granted ) yet the parallel lying onely in the sense , and that being all one whether they preacht to or among the gentiles , this no way concludes that the phrases are the same , or the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one redundant , which is the onely thing , for the proving of which this parallel is produced , but of that i have formerly spoken . answ. had the dr. shewed any one interpreter that ever rendred 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 col. . . by inter omnem creaturam , among every creature , or that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it signifies inter or among or either of these prepositions , is put in latin or english before a noun of multitude in the singular number , he had said more then i yet deem hee can , or i think any other grammarian , nor do i take the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a noun of multitude , there may bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though there were but one individual , though i grant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes many creatures , nor do i conceive it good sense to render it in every creature , sith the term [ creature ] doth note persons not place , and to be preached in every creature , would imply such a sense as will not suit with the matter , which is conceived by many interpreters , to note the accomplishment of what christ appointed mark . . which leaving out the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the common use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to preach being with a dative case of the object , i did infer that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is redundant and a note of the dative case , as pasor before me in his lexicon of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of which he saith , saepe ex hebraismo redundat col. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , predicati omni creaturae . sure if it were most exactly rendered , as the dr. saith , preached in or among the whole creation , it is marvail none hit on this afore the dr. as they have done gal. . . tim. . . whether col. . . and mar. . . be parallel in the manner i make them , is to be referred to the readers judgement , when he shall compare them together . sure i finde all these , beza , camerarius , piscator , zonchius , grotius , davenant , trapp , the new annotations , elton , referring to and explaining one by the other , and the dr. confessing the sense the same , every grammarian that understands greek may plainly see the phrase to be the same save that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is added col. . ● . and therefore from all these i infer as most probable , and to me certain , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is redundant , that it 's onely the sign of the dative case of the object , that it is most truely rendered as our translators and many more rendered , to every creature , that is , as gorram expounds it , universis hominibus , to all , or all sorts of men . as for the drs. cautions about prescribing and concluding , they are impertinent to the present thing concerning col. . . whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be redundant the sign of the dative case there . whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. . . he to be rendered [ to ] whether the sense will bear it , whether it make any other change in the sense then is fit , or any more be concluded , then is deducible is before and after to be discussed . hitherto it appears not but that i said right , matth. . . col. . . cannot be eluded . the dr. goes on , his third instance is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . which he cannot yet conceive , but that it is better rendred , to men , then among men . and his reasons are ; first , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath most regularly and consequently ( it should be constantly ) a dative case of the person after it . secondly , because if it had been among men , it had been to be placed after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other , there is no other name among men , given , but being placed after given , it is to be expounded as referred to given not to other , and so must bee read , to men , not among men . thirdly , it seems no good sense , nor true , that christ was a name given among men , for though he were among men , yet he was given from above , to all which , he adds the judgement of irenaeus l. . c. ● . cited by beza , and a parallel phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . to this i answer . first , that 't is true when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath any case of the person following and governed by it , that is constantly the dative , but that is no way applicable to this phrase , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for there the persons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are governed by the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to the second , that the construction by among , is very good , placing it after given , there is no other name given among men , i. e. no means of salvation afforded by god , and continued among men . to the third , that christs being given from above , no way prejudges his being given among men , both because the benefit of this gift is a common donative , distributed among men , and also because this gift is dispenc'd in form of humane flesh , christ is become man , and to be found and seen among men . answ. . that the persons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men , are governed by the proposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is not rightly said by the dr. first , because the placing of it next after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shews it is governed of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 given . secondly , because if [ men ] were not governed of [ given ] the participle [ given ] were superfluous . for he sense would be the same , and the speech were as good language if it were left out , and the reading onely thus ; neither is there another name under heaven among men , whereby we must be saved . ● . that name whereby we must be saved ] should be put for [ meanes of salvation ] and not a person distinctly is both besides the usual acception of the term [ name ] and the drift of the words , which shew that by [ name ] is meant [ person ] and makes the speech false ; for the preaching of the gospel by prophets , and apostles , were means of salvation afforded by god , and continued among men , besides christ and his preaching . . that this gift was dispenc'd in form of humane flesh , that christ was become man , and to bee f●und and seen among men , shews not that he was given among men , but to be among men , his giving was from above , as he often saith , that he came down from heaven , joh. . , , , , . . given from heaven , v. . joh. . . ye are from beneath , i am from above . joh. . . he that cometh from above is above all , he that cometh from heaven is above all ; which is contrary to what peter ( as the dr. expounds him ) speaks here , that he was a name under heaven given among men . and the other reason , because the benefit of this gift is a common donative , and distributed among men , though it perverts the sense , putting for [ the name ] which signifies the person [ the benefit ] and confounding the person whereby we must be saved with the benefit , which is no other then salvation , yet it makes for my sense . for what is it to be a common donative , distributed among men , but to be given to men . so that in the issue , the dr. notwithstanding his strugling is not able to avoid it , but that it serves my purpose of proving 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 redundant , and a signe of the dative case . what the dr. saith to what i add out of beza annot . on acts . . the dr. might have remembred ( if he ever read it ) that in my examen . part . . § . . i did take notice that irenaeus was a greek and wrote in greek , but now onely we have his works in latin except some few fragments , and beza so great a learned man , as had few equals , especially in the greek language , it is likely knew so too ; and therefore the dr. might have omitted that intimation , as if wee were forgetfull thereof . and it had been fair if the dr. had taken notice , that beza alledged first the old interpreter , as reading [ datum hominibus , given to men ] and irenaeus ( meaning his translator , who is commonly cited as irenaeus ] after him , and that i added camerarius , which the dr. saith nothing to , but hath a snatch at beza's alleging acts . . which i rest not on , sith it may be read [ with or among ] as well as [ to ] which is agreeable with our l●st translation , our fathers had the tabernacle of witness . but i follow the dr. in his debates , which it is indeed pitty the reader or the dr. should be exercised with , being fit for better undertakings then these , which he is detained with upon his own motion , as one that is cedere nescius to a plain truth , not in obedience to me who never injoyned him this exercise . he saith , for a th . instance , he again resumes that of gal. . . pet. . . that gal. . where of god the apostle saith , that he was pleased to reveall his own son 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and when i had rendred that by or through me to others , this exposition , saith he , makes the apostle tautologize ineptly . this strange undecent expression , i wish had been spared , for certainly there was little temptation for it : why , i pray , might not the apostle without incurring either part of that censure , say , god was pleased through me to reveal his son , and by way of explication ( and withall to denote the designation of that apostle to his peculiar province , as the apostle of the uncircumcision ) add , that i might preach the gospel to the gentiles . certainly every explication of an obscurer or narrower , by a clearer or larger phrase , is not inept tautology , but that which all writers which have desired to speak intelligibly , have always been full of . and yet dly , the later part here , of his preaching the gospel to the gentiles ( he being peculiarly the apostle of the gentiles , as peter and john were of the jews wheresoever dispersed ) is more then was pretended to be said by my rendring and paraphrasing the former part of it ; for in that those others had not been defined , who they were , or limited to the gentiles . this mr. t. adverted not in his objection , i desire he will now take notice of it . answ. i could not well have spared the expression , having temptation for it from dr. hammonds mis-interpreting the apostles speech , so as to make it according to the drs. sense , though not according to the apostles , an inept tautology ; which however strange , yet was no undecent expression , there being nothing that reflects on the apostle but on the dr. tending to shew the absurdity of his interpretation , not of the apostles words . from which the dr. doth not relieve himself by his answer here . for the later phrase doth not express the same more clearly , there is neither a copulative conjunction nor dis●junctive , expressed or implied , nor any other particle which may shew the later phrase to be exegitical of the former , but the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth plainly shew that , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the evangelizing or preaching the gospel , to be m●ntioned as the end or consequent of the revelation , and therefore not the same act . besides the preaching the gospel by a man is no where termed the revealing of christ by him to others , being known to him before , but the making known to the person , and revelation is still made gods , christs , or his spirits act , and hath a dative case of the person who is the object to whom the thing is revealed added to it , as matth. . , . & . . luk. . , . john . . cor. . . & . eph. . . phil. . . pet. . . and this must needs be the meaning , the words before being , whereas before he was zealous of the law against the christian profession , when it pleased god who separated me from my mothers womb , and called me by his grace to reveal his son in him ; or as beza annot . in locum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est mihi , to me , which plainly shews that this revelation was to him when he was called , which is called the revelation of jesus christ to him , v. . and made the proof of his calling to bee an apostle , not of men , neither by man , but by jesus christ , v. . and the reason why he preached without conferring with the apostles and thus doth perkins com . on gal. . . rightly explain it , to reveal his son in me or to me , and to express the manner or form of his calling or conversion , and expounds it thus , to teach me the doctrine of the redemption of mankinde by jesus christ , and the words to preach christ among the gentiles the end of his vocation . as for that which the dr. desires me now to take notice of , i do , though i think it needless , sith the tautology i conceived to follow on the drs. exposition , is not in the object but in the act , revealing his son by the apostle , being no other then his preaching , which makes the speech nugatory , it pleased god to preach his son by me , that i might preach . as for the place of pet. . . sith the dr. makes no more answer i need make no more reply , and i still aver that all the places which i brought out of the n. t. have the notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for to , as a signe of the da●ive case . to the places out of the greek of the old testament , he tels me , that three onely places in the whole old t. would never infer that so it must bee in the new ( which i grant ) and there being no pretense of necessity that thus it wust be here ( which is also granted , except a necessity of a more fair , easie , and congruous sense then any other rendering ) these three will be of no avail to me . but this is not yeelded . for the two first , deut. . . & kings . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vulg . adhaerebit tibi & semini tuo , being used constantly in the n. t. with a dative luk. . . and . . acts . . & . . & . . & . . & . . rom. . . cor. . , , &c. it is a strong presumption that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is redundant , and onely the signe of the dative case . and the other place psal. . . compared with eph. . . hath some force , it being probable that the apostle expressed what the lxx meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but it was not of this last onely , but of all together , i said i took them to be more then enough to refute the drs. speech , that the notion , wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to , which is a signe of the dative case , is never found once to belong to it in the n. t. nor can with any tollerable congruity or grammatical analogy be affixt to it . sect . xciv . it is shewed that dr. hammond hath no proof from cor. . . for his sense of the fore-part of v. . nor will his sense of holy for baptized , agree with the apostles argument , though his sense of the forepart of the v. were granted . the dr. adds , my third proof produced for my interpretation of the first part of v. . which to me put it out of all doubt , by comparing it with the reason subjoyned ; for what knowest thou o wife , whether thou shalt save thy husband ; or how knowest thou , o man , whether thou shalt thy wife ? ] he comes next to examine , and hath many exceptions against it , all which ( without losing time in repeating and viewing them severally ) will be soon dispelled by a right understanding of the force of the apostles argument , as there i conceive it to lie , thus v. . it is matter of ordinary observation , that unbelieving husbands have been brought to the faith and baptism by the believing wife , therefore i now exhort and counsel the believer not to depart from the unbeliever , in case the unbeliever be willing to stay , v. . for this reason , v. . because whath hath been so oft , may very probably be hoped again , and consequently upon the premimises the believer hath ground to hope , that she may in time gain the husband to the faith , and that being so fair a reward in her view , ( the saving or rescuing him from infidelity to christ ) may well inforce the counsel of the apostle , not to depart from him , as long as , without sin , she is permitted to stay . by which it appears that this v. . is not a bare evplanation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. . ( on which mr. t. his exceptions principally depend ) but an application of the argument formerly proposed , but now more signally brought home to them , under the form of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for what ] by this meanes to re-inforce his conclusion of their not departing for the cause of infidelity : if the reader will but observe what is thus visible , he will want no more help , to get out of the intricacies and roils , which mr. t. hath here spread for him in this matter , which is in it self so manifest , as nothing can be added to it , if either the text or my paraphrase may be permitted to speak for it self . ans. the dr. seems to be much crest-fa●n , who having said his exposition appeared most irrefragably by v. . wherin he said the fore-part of v. . was further explained . when four plain reasons were urged against this , he replies to none , but onely calls them intricacies , and toils , and saith , my exceptions depend on this , that v. . is not a bare explanation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. . whereas my reasons prove it to be neither an explanation nor an application of the argument formerly proposed v. . but another argument , not to prove the lawfulness of the believers continuance with the believer , as v. . but either as a motive to bring them to what he had concluded lawfull , or to inforce what he had said v. . and for what the dr. saith , that v. . the argument formerly proposed , v. . is more signally brought home to them , it is not true even according to the drs. own paraphrase . for the drs. paraphrase of v. . as if therein a frequ●ncy of the conversion of unbelievers yoke fellows by the believer , were well known as matter of ordinary observation , and so hopefull in the case of the present doubters , brings home the argument more signally then a mention o● it as possible , doubtfully expressed as a contingent that might be or not be . but i am willing the reader should hear us both and then judge . i for my part do still conceive the drs paraphrase of the fore-part of cor. . . to be far from the meaning of the text , the reason of the apostle being by it made a rhetorical argument to inforce the cohabitation as an advantage , which is used to make it lawfull , and urged from a contingent thing which no whit cleered the doubt , but the reason might be retorted against him , and all ascribed to the yoke fellow as a believer , when the term believer is quite omitted , and that ascribed to the believer which is stil elswhere ascribed to the spirit of god , and that expressed as done often and as of ordinary observation , which is expressed in the singular number , and made by the apostle as doubtfull and uncertain . and if these be intricacies and toils the dr. hath had little compassion on me and his reader , who when he might so easily , would not spend a little more time to help me out of them , though spread by himself . the dr. proceeds sect. . his exceptions to the former part of my paraphrase being now ended , i must attend what hee hath to say against the latter part of it , that which concernes our matter in hand more neerly ; the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for else were your children unclean , but now are they holy , i. e. upon that score it is that christians children are admitted to bap●ism , viz. because by their living in the family with the christian parent , they probably will ( and ought to ) be brought up in the faith — and the church ( requiring and receiving promise from the parents ) reasonably presumes they will , and so admits them to baptism . the argument of the apostle thus explained in my paraphrase ( or if he yet will have it more plainly thus , the church upon confidence that the believers children will be brought up in the faith , receives them to baptism when they are infants ; and upon the same grounds of hope , that your abiding with the unbelieving husband may in time convert him ( as by experience it hath oft been found ) i advise you not to depart from him , if he will live with you , for what knowest thou whether thou shalt save thy husband ? &c. ) m. t. hath made a shift not to understand , and substituted another way of arguing in my name , in stead of it , p. . and having done so i must leave him to combate with the shadow of his own creating , no part of his impression lighting upon that which alone i profess to bee my meaning in it , which i leave him or the reader to see , in the particulars proposed by him , but must not now bee so impertinent , as to lose time in the persuit of them . answ. sith the dr. hath disclaimed my good words , and approbation of his ingenuity , ch . . sect . . of this his defence , i shall forbear to commend his ingenuity , but cannot choose but take notice of his shift he makes to avoid the force of my reasons , by bearing the reader in hand that i made a shift not to understand him , that i substitute another way of arguing in his name in stead of it , that i combate with a shadow of my own creating , no part of my impression lighting upon that which alone he professeth to be his meaning in it , and therefore must not now be so impertinent as to lose time in the pursuit of the particulars proposed by me . this is a pretty art to pretend a reason why he need not answer what he cannot ; like his , who when he could not make a good account , devised how he might make none at all . the dr. saith i have substituted another way of arguing in his name in stead of that he hath set down . now sure this intimates that this he sets down was a way of arguing , and calls hi● explications he sets down the argument of the apostle thus explained in his paraphrase in the later way more plainly . but in neither do i find any arguing ascribed to the apostle in the later part of his word ▪ cor. . . but in the former a meer d●claration upon what reason christians children are ( as the dr. conceives the apostle mean● ) admitted to baptism ; in the later , an addition of a paraphrase on the first part of cor. . with his advise according to v. , . and his paraphrase confirmed by v. . nor doth the dr. at all explain those words , else were your children unclean , though those were the words i chiefly insisted on to shew the absurdity his framing the apostles reasoning brought his words to , as the reader may plainly perceive by my words in the d part of my review , sect . . p. , . but to shew the drs. collusion in this thing , the reader may observe . that neith●r in his paraphrase in his th . qu § . . ( though he make it § . . the importance of the apostles words , and force of his arguing ) nor here , doth the dr. set down the true force of the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else , which in his letter , qu. . § . . ( to which my answer was made , p , , . with which the dr. here cavils ) he terms an argumentative stile . for the expressions [ upon this score , on this one consideration , upon this ground ] are not exclusive terms , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else is , which implies not onely that the thing is so upon that one consideration , but also that without it it should be otherwise ; nor doth the dr. seem to put them as answering to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else were , but to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but now . . that ( as i said before ) the dr ▪ doth in neither of these paraphrases set down any thing as answering to [ else were your children unclean ] nor in his letter , qu § . ● ▪ except these words are put to answer them [ yet the children of heathens are not admitted to baptism , ] which me thinks hee should not do , sith [ your children ] is in all his paraphrases [ christians children , believers children ] and therefore i am loth to think him so much overseen ▪ as that he should put [ the children of heathens are not admitted to baptism ] for [ your children were unclean , ] . if he should , he should in that paraphrase much pervert the apostles meaning , by putting that which answers to [ else were your children unclean ] contrary to the apostles order , after that which answers to [ but now are they holy ; ] of which disorder , tending to pervert the apostles meaning , his plainer later paraphrase here is guilty , putting first that which hee conceives answerable to [ but now are they holy , ] and then that which answers to [ the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife , ] and then that which answers to [ v. . let her not leave him , ] and then the th . v. which sure is such a disorder as is very faulty , so deforming the apostles argument , as that its like the leaving out of an arm or eye , the placing of the hand where the eye should be in the painting of a man , whereby he is made a monster . . whereas the dr. defence of baptism , p. . denies that he made the future hopes any part of the sense of [ hath been sanctified , ] in all these paraphrases he sets down nothing but the future hopes , which are no part of the sense by his own confession , but as he imagines , the rational importance , the score , ground , or consideration of admitting children to baptism . and not onely so , but adds more then he makes the rational importance of the term [ hath been sanctified ] in his paraphrase , as that by their living in the family with christian parents , they probably will ( and ought ) to be brought up in the faith , and the church requiring and receiving promise from the parents , reasonably presumes they will. none of which he doth so much as pretend to be the rational importance of [ hath been sanctified , ] but adds them of his own ; and with like fancying might have added , the church doth reasonably presume they will be teachers , officers in the church , martyrs , and what else they could wish them to be i refer it to any sober ingenious scholler to judge , whether such kind of paraphrasing , especially when an argument is drawn from it , as the chief , if not onely pi●lar of the cause , be tollerable . on the other side , that the dr. did make the apostles arguing otherwise , when he refuted the answer to his argument hence , in his letter , qu. . § . . appears by his words there , p. . ( which i cited review par . . pag. . and were those whence i gathered the drs. framing the apostles argument ) when he said , the invalidity of this answer will be discerned first by the method of the apostles arguing in that place , for the co●habiting of the believing wife with the unbelieving husband , &c. because the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified by the believing wife , or else were your children unclean , but now are they holy : that must needs be this , unless there were some hope that the co-habiting of a believer , should be a means to bring an unbeliever to the faith , 't would certainly follow , that their children were unclean ; now putting to it that which he in his paraphrases § . . of his th . qu. in his letter , where he expresseth [ hath been sanctified ] thus , the unbelieving party hath been brought to the faith by the company and conversation of the believer , and [ unclean ] by [ not admitted to baptism , ] and [ holy ] by [ admitted to baptism , ] and [ your children by [ the young children of christians whereof was an unbeliever ; ] and i appeale to any that shall compare my words in the d . part of this review , sect . . p. . where i make this the apostles arguing as the dr. expounds it , [ if some other unbelieving yoke-fellow had not been converted by the faith , diligence , and conversation of the believing party that then was , then the children of you who are believers , but begotten or brought forth by one that yet is an unbeliever , had not been admitted to christian baptism in infancy : but now , that is , upon this score , that some former unbelieving yoke-fellows have been brought to the faith of christ by the faith , conversation , and diligence of the believer , they have been admitted to baptism , ] with the drs. premised arguings and paraphrase in his letter , qu. . § . , . and here , whether i have not rightly set down the apostles argument as the dr. expounds him , and the dr. hath not changed here his frame of the apostles argument to hide the deformity of it , and whether there be any truth in it that i have not understood his paraphrase , that i have substituted another way of arguing in his name in stead of it , or have combated with the shadow of my own creating ; and whether these propositions [ the children of a believing yoke fellow who is joyned to an unbeliever had not been admitted to christian baptism , if some other unbelieving yoke-fellow had not been brought to the faith . the children of a believer by an unbelieving yoke fellow have been admitted to christian baptism , by reason that it hath been usual that other believers have brought the unbeliever to the faith ] are not included in the apostles argument according to the tenour of his reasoning conceived by the dr. and whether there be any shew of connexion in the consequence of the apostle as the dr. expounds it , and whether he hath not shifted in stead of answering , and imputed fiction to me that he might hide his own collusion . sect . xcv . dr. hammonds reasons from the terms holy and unclean for his sense of baptized or not baptized are refelled . the dr. next pretends to vindicate his reasons for his interpretation from my exceptions . my first reason ( saith he ) is , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , holy , noting a relative holiness , a setting apart to god , and the lowest degree of that imaginable , being the initiating into the church by baptism , this must in reason be here noted by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 holy , as all visible professors , ezr. . . are the holy seed , and in the epistles of the apostles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 holy . to this he answers , that it being all granted , confirms not the drs. exposition , because 't is no good argument a genere ad speciem affirmativè , and because infants are not visible professors . but sure when the species is such , that he that hath not that , hath not any part of the genus , the argument will thus hold very irrefragably : suppose that of the deacon to be the lowest order of officers in the church , and that without which there is no ascending to any higher degree in the ministery , will not then the argument hold , he hath some degree ecclesiastical upon him , therefore sure he is a deacon ? thus sure it is in this matter , the relative holiness belongs to no person , that is not baptized , baptism is the lowest degree of it , and all superiour degrees of apostle , prophet , &c. in the christian church are founded in that , therefore if the infant children be holy , the infant children are baptized . so again , baptism is the lowest degree of visible profession , therefore if these that are said to be holy are visible professors , then sure they are baptized ; and so there is no force in that whether answer or exception to my first reason . answ. that there is no force to avoid my exception in this reply , may appear . . that he saith nothing to what i said p. . of the d . part of the review , that the term [ holy seed ] ezr. . . hath a far different notion , as i shew in this review antipaed . par . . sect . , . from what the dr. imagines . . nor doth he here , or any where else prove infants to be visible professors . . nor doth he prove baptism to be the lowest degree of visible profession . . nor doth the dr. prove or can prove , that the holiness cor. . . must be meant of a relative holiness , of setting apart to god in the christian visible church , short of real saving holiness . the opinion of matrimonial holiness i assert , with many more , is not yet refuted . they who after tertullian interpret it of real saving holiness intentional , as rom. . . the jews uncalled are holy , designati sanctitati ac per hoc etiam saluti , conceive they have as good proof for it as the dr. for his . . baptism is not proved to be the lowest degree imaginable of relative holiness in the christian church , nor the lowest degree of visible profession . for . there is a lower degree by freedome from idol pollutions , such as tertullian mentions c. . de animá . . there is a degree of holiness by vow or prayer , such as hannah devoted samuel by , sam. . . which josephus antiq . l. . c. . terms consecrating or sanctifying to god , as the greek version terms numb . . , . the separating of the nazarite by vow a sanctifying , and the apostle prayer in the use of food a sanctifying it , tim. . . . there is a lower degree of visible profession in the catechumeni not yet baptized then baptism is . . there is a lower degree of sanctification of them , according to augustine , l. . de pecc . mer. & remis . c. . cited before by the dr. here , p. , . when ●e said , catechumenos secundum quendam modum suum per signum christi & orationem impositionis manuum puto sanctificari , whence the dr. himself saith there , that some kind of sanctification which the unbaptized might have by prayer and imposition of hands , of which we sometimes read in the ancients , as hath elsewhere been shewed . . nor is it proved that a person may not have the higher degree of holiness in the cnurch without baptism . sure a person may be converted , regenerated afore baptism , and so holy . and it is yet a question , whether all the apostles and prophets in the church were baptized , though i doubt not they were , and that regularly they should be ; yet the very questioning it shews the argument not to hold irrefragably , that he that is not baptized hath no part of relative holiness in the church of god , or that all superiour degrees of apostle , prophet , &c. in the christian church are founded in that . lastly , it is apparent that the holiness cor. . . is not baptism , in that it is from the birth , and so afore baptism , and from the parent not from the minister , may be though the child be never baptized , is derived from the lawfulness of marriage society , not from the belief of one or both parents , and therefore not baptism , as the dr. ( so far as i know ) without any example ancient or modern makes it . he adds , my second followes from the notation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . for those that must not be received into the church , as on the other side gods cleansing is gods reputing him fit to bee partaker of this priviledge , whereby it appears how fitly , receiving and not receiving to baptism ] are exprest by [ holy and unclean . ] to this he answers by acknowledging the conclusion , viz. the fitness of the expression , all his exception is against my premise , the notion of unclean , act. . which , saith hee , signifies there not onely one out of the church , but also one that a jew might not go into or eat with . to this i reply that my conclusion being granted , i may safely part with that , which inferred it , as when i am arrived at my journeys end i have no further need or use of my horse or guide that brought me thither : let it be remembred , that [ holy and unclean ] fitly express those that are received or not received to baptism , and then i am sure i have not offended against the propriety of the words , by concluding from this text , that in the apostles time the believers children were received to baptism ; and if i have as little offended against the rational importance of the words in that place ( as i hope hath formerly appeared that i have ) then i hope i am perfectly innocent in inducing my conclusion . as for the use of the phrase act. . though now i need not contend yet i may add that the notion of not entring to and eating with ▪ containing under it this other of not baptizing ( for sure he might not baptize those to whom he might not enter ) and the baptizing cornelius ( and not onely the entring to him ) being the end for which peter received that vision ) i still adhere that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that place , signifies one peculiarly that must not be received into the church by baptism , and the holiness on the contrary reception to that priviledge . answ. . i granted the fitness of the expression onely conditionally , if the holy ghost had so thought good , but denied the holy ghost did so , and therefore he may offend against the propriety of the words , notwithstanding my concession , and hath as much need of his horse to get to his journeys end , as if i had not yeelded so much . . how much he hath offended against the rational importance of the apostles words cor. . . is shewed before . . were the fitness of the expression absolutely granted , yet with the drs. leave , i conceive he needs to contend about the use of the phrase in his sense , or else he will not be able to infer any thing for his purpose , sith it is not the fitness of an expression , but the use of words which must direct us in our expositions , as being vis & norma loquendi . . that the use of it acts . . is not for the drs. purpose is manifest . for . the dr. thus expounds common or unclean by not received to baptism , now if this were the notion of unclean ac●s . . then when peter saith [ i have never eaten any thing common or unclean ] hee meanes hee never eat any thing nor received into the church by baptism ; and when v. . it is said [ what god hath cleansed that call thou not common ] the meaning is , what god hath baptized reject thou not from baptism , which is too ridiculous an exposition to be urged . . if it be said that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or covered sense doth import it , neither is that true . for . it is certain that in the latent meaning , the apostle discerned by the vision that which is common or unclean to be meant v. . of one of another nation , and the eating , keeping company , or going to , which is also gathered from acts . . where the thing objected was , that he went in to the uncircumcised , and did eat with them . so that from hence it is manifest , that the proper notion of unclean is ( in that place according to the subsense which the vision aimed at ) one that being uncircumcised might not be gone into to talk with familiarly , and and eat with , though he were one that feared god. which cannot bee meant of want of baptism , for so the clean , to wit , the unbelieving jews were unclean , they were not baptized with christian baptism , but of exclusion from familiar society and converse . . on the other side , by acts . . what god hath cleansed that call thou not common , peter v. . shews he understood allowance to go to him , preach to him , eat with him , as one accepted of god , v. . so that the cleansing is the taking away of that restraint which was upon the jewes , of converse with the gentiles . which being considered , if unclean acts . . were to be expounded in the same notion which the dr. imagines to be cor. . . not admitted to the church by baptism , then when god bid peter count nothing common or unclean , he bid him count no gentile unbaptized , and when he said what god hath cleansed , it should be whom god hath baptized , or admitted by baptism into the church . and when the apostle according to the dr. useth unclean cor. . . in the notion in which it is used acts . . he should mean , your young children were such as a man might not go into , converse with , talke with familiarly , eat with , which certainly being meant of infants as the dr. conceives , is so ridiculus an exposition , as a sober man would not put upon any profane author , much less on the sacred writers . as for that which the dr. saith , that the notion of not entring to , and eating with , contained under it this other of not baptizing , for sure hee might not baptize those to whom he might not enter ; it is so frivolous , as that it is unfit for a man that takes on him to make annotations on the new testament . for if this were good reasoning , it would follow on the contrary , every ones going in to , and eating with one , were baptizing ; and sith others then apostles or preachers were to go into or not , they were to baptize or not to baptize , and all that men might not go into or eat with , as excommunicate persons they must bee unbaptized , and by the same reason , sith sure a minister may not admit to the lords supper , nor a bishop ordain him for a priest , to whom he might not enter ; the notion of not entring to and eating with , contained under it this other of not communicating and not ordaining , and consequently holy contains under it communicating , and ordaining , and so your young children are not unclean but holy , should bee by this very reasoning expounded , they are admitted to the lords supper , and ordained priests . and what he adds ; and the baptizing cornelius ( and not onely entring to him ) being the end for which peter received that vision , i still adhere that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that place , signifies one peculiarly that must not be received into the church by baptism , and the holiness on the contrary reception to that priviledge , may as well serve to prove unclean hath the notion of one excluded from the lords supper , or heaven , and holy on the contrary the reception to these , sith these were the ends of peters going in , as well as baptizing , and so to say your young children are holy , shall be as much as your young children are admitted to the lords supper and to heaven . these conceits of the dr. go upon two gross mistakes . . as if unclean were used in a sense suitable to the ecclesiastical practise in the christian church , whereas it is used according to the use and conceipt of the jews peculiarly . . as if the notion of a word did ex●end to the concomitants and ends of the act expressed by it ; which if true , then election , regeneration , should have the notion of justifying and glorifying , preaching the notion of adoption and sanctification . but enough of this raw conceit of the doctor , he goe● on thus . my third reason , saith hee , being taken from the use of the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to sanctifie , for washing any part of the body , and on occasion of that , mentioning a conjecture that the use of holiness for baptism , might perhaps intimate that the primitive bapti●ms were not always immersions , but that sprinkling of some part might be sufficicient ; he hath a reply to each of these : to the former , that if this reason were good , then the husbands being sanctified by the wife , must signifie his being baptized or washed by her ; to the latter , that i have in my writings so oft acknowledged the baptism of the jews and christians to be immersion of the whole body , that i ought to be ashamed to say the contrary , and that i can hardly believe my self in it . to these i answer , first to the former . . that i that affirm sanctifications among the jews to signifie washings , do also know that it hath other significations , and that that signification is in each text to bee chosen , which seems most agreeable in all those respects which are to be considerable in the pitching on any interpretation ; consequently that the wives baptizing the husband being a thing absurd and utterly unheard of in the church of god , whether in the apostles or succeeding ages , this sense may not reasonably be affixt to it ; whereas the baptizing of infants being by the ancients affirmed to be received from the apostles , it is most reasonable to understand the words of this , though not of the other ( and so to apply the observation ( as it is visible i did ) to the latter , not former part of the verse . answ. this is no answer , but a grant that the sanctifying cor. . . cannot be meant of baptizing , sith it is absurd so to expound it ; and consequently , a yeelding the argument from the calling the jews washings sanctifications , to have no force . nor doth he at all help himself by saying , it is most reasonable to apply it to the latter part of the v. for there is no reason in it , that because the jewes use the word sanctification for baptism , therefore holy ( which is another word , and in another predicament then sanctified , which is in passion , and the other in quality or relation ) and not sanctified cor. . . is as much as baptism , and because the word sanctifications hath other significations then washings , and may not be understood of baptism in the fore-part of cor. . . therefore holy , no where proved to be as much as baptized , is as much as admitted to the church by baptism ▪ and because the ancients mention infant baptism to be received from the apostles , as they do other unwritten traditions of observing easter , l●nt , giving infants the communion , &c. therefore holy cor. . . must be without any example in scripture or father of that use of the word , bee expounded thus [ admitted in the church by baptism . ] but yet the dr. is loth to confess his errour , but adds . and yet . if we shall distinguish of the notion of [ by ] and expound [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the woman ] of the perswasion , that the woman hath used to bring her husband to baptism , and not of her ministry in b●ptizing ▪ wee may very conveniently so interpret the former part of the verse also that by the woman , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the unbelieving husband hath been brought to baptism , viz. by being brought to faith , to which this priviledge belongs . answ. . the dr. brings no example of such a notion of [ by ] or of such a use of the term [ san●tified ] any where else , and how ill it suits with the apostles argument , is shewed fully before . . but were it yeelded him , . it would shew that th● alledging of the jews calling their washings sanctifications , to expound cor. . , by was impertinent , the jews sanctifications being not b● perswasion of another , but of themselves according to gods appointment , nor do they note first bringing to the faith , and then admission by another to baptism but washing themselves ; and that is one reason why neither the use of sanctified nor holy , cor. . . can be conceived to be allusive ●o the jewish sanctifications mentioned by the dr. sith in 〈…〉 high priest washed himself , and but his hands and his feet 〈…〉 , but christian baptism was by the ministry of another , by imm●●●sion of the whole body , and therefore this third reason of the dr. is altogether in ●●●bable . . if [ sanctified cor. . . ] be to be 〈◊〉 [ brought to the faith , and so to baptism ] [ holy is in like sort so be expounded , and then we might allow the drs. exposition of [ holy cor. . ] wit●out any detriment to our cause , it being granted the children of believers were brought to the faith , and so to baptism . again saith the dr. as for his second exceptions to my conje●ture , founded in the use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 san●tifications for partial , not total ●ashing● . . i answer , that i mention it onely as a con●ecture , with a perhaps and lay no more weight u●on it . . that for christian baptism i no whe●e affi●m that it was onely by immersion , nor on the other side that it was alway● by sp●●●kling but disjun●tively , either by one or the other ( as by the word● cited by him from prac . cat . l. ●ect . is clear ) supposing indeed that christs appointment was not terminated to either , and so satisfied by either . answ. . the dr. by putting in his conjecture , shewed his willingness to have maintained by some colour , the abuse of sprinkling in stead of baptism , which his own words cited by me , made me f●ar hee did against his own light , and the contrary is not cleered by this slight excuse . . the drs. own words alledged by me , plainly shewed that he knew the primitive baptisms were alwayes immersions of the whole body , nor was any other use of water for baptism , till the corrupt use of the circumfusion of the clinici in the third century began . nor do his words practic cat . l. . sect . . cleer the contrary to be conceived by him ; for when he saith by christs appointment whosoever should bee thus received into his family , should he received with this ceremony of water , therein to be dipt , i. e. according to the primitive ancient custome , to be put under water three times ; and then a●ds , or instead of that to bee sprinkled with it ; though he make christs appointment disjunctively the one or the other , yet he makes the primitive ancient custome , onely to bee by putting under water ; as in like manner p. . and this was indeed the ancient primitive custome , a rom. . , . col . . shew , and the known sa●ing of tertullian ●er me●gitamur . and of any one , dr. hammond should acknowledg● it , who distinguisheth the sanctifications of a part from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is baptism , and saith , the jewish solemnity of baptism ▪ which he would have the original and pa●tern of our baptism , to be the washing of the whole body . as for his propounding christs appointmen● disjunctively , it discovers more of his audacious and corrupt dealing by ma●ing that appointment , which is but one way disjunctive , either that wa● w●ich is acknowledged to be christs , or another way in stead of it , whic● cannot be shewn to have been practised by the apostles , or any apostolical men in the primitive times . and in this thing it is necessary that ●he ●●il dealing of dr. hammond , mr. baxter , and oth●rs , be shewed , who do most presumptuously add to the ordinance of baptism● when christ h●th appointed onel● dipping , they add sprinkling ; when christ appoints onely disciples made by preaching the gospel to be baptized , they add infants who are not such , and by a fictitious title ma●e them disciples by their parents faith , who learn and profes● nothing themselves ; ( which he that read● considerately mr. baxters arguments in his ● . disputation of the right to sacraments , may see sufficiently refuted , and may think he could not write that book without regret of conscie●ce for what hee had written in his book of baptism ) and when the new testament makes none members of the visible church christian , but professors of faith , they add infants of their own head ; ●nd when the scripture and fathers in setting down the institution and practise of baptism , plainly express both so , as that they confess them to bee onely meant of the aged , yet would have them to include also infants , contrary to the pl●in words and their own confessions , and in their expositions so expound the texts , as expressing onely what agrees to the aged , and yet in their arguments urge the same for baptizing of infants , which they could not do if they did not plead for infant baptism against heir own light , or were not extremely heedless at one time of what they say at another : how ever it be with them , sure i am , no conscientious christian hath reason to be satisfied by sprinkling , when christ hath appointed no other then dipping , nor with infant baptism ▪ when as mr. baxter hath fully proved in his d . disput . that there is a necessi●y of profession of repentance and faith before ▪ and none are to bee baptized but those that are first professed disciples of christ ; and though he supposeth believers children disciples , and the parents profession to be instead of their own , yet no where proves it , nor offers any proof , but what is meerly conjectural , nor can any pastours or teachers of churches , without most arrogant presumption baptize or take for visible churchmembers infants , whom neither christ , nor his apostles did baptize or take for such . but i return to the dr. my last reason , saith he , is taken from the effect of the legal uncleanness contrary to those their sanctifications , viz. removing men from the congregation ; agreeable to which it is that those should bee called holy , who in the account of god stood so , that they might be received into the church . to this he answers , that it is said without proof that the uncleanness excluding from , and sanctification restoring to the tabernacle , are proportionable to the notion here given , of the childrens bei●g excluded or included in the church , asking why cornelius should be counted out of the church being a devout man ? but to this i reply , that that which is so manifest needed no further proof , for what two things can be more proportionable , or answerable the one to the other , then the jews calling those unclean and holy , who were excluded from and restored to the tabernacle , and the christians calling them unclean , and holy that were excluded from and received into the church , the exclusion and reception being the same on both sides , as also the uncleanness and holiness , and the proportion lying onely betwixt the jewish tabernacle , and the christian church , which surely are very fit parallels as could have been thought on . answ. were it so , yet it had been necessary to have proved the holy ghost made them parallels , that from the answerableness a reason might be taken to prove thence the sense of holy and unclean cor. . . after the drs. minde : for it is not the fitness of an expression , that must prove the sense we would , but the use and the matter of the speech , in which the drs. expositions are defective . but the holy ghost no where that i know resembles the meer visible church by the tabernacle , but the invisible , in which the spirit of god dwels , or rather every believing saint , cor. . , . & . . heb. . . tim. . . or the body of christ , joh. . . heb. . . or heaven , heb. . . and the uncleanness resembled by the legal uncleanness , is such as excludes , and the holiness such as admits into communion with god , union with christ , entrance into heaven , cor. . , . revel . . . and the sanctification resembled by the jewish washings , is that which is invisible by the spirit , cor. . . not meer outward baptism , and therefore if proportion or agreeableness could prove a sense of those terms the sense would be fairer for the expounding of holiness rather of real then relative holiness . the dr. adds , as for his question of cornelius , it is most vain , the whole discourse being not of real but relative sanctification , and the difference most visible betwixt that sanctity which was truly in him in respect of his devotion , fearing , praying , &c. and that outward priviledge of admission into the congregation of the jews , which alone was the thing which in the account of god or sober men was denied cornelius . these be pitifull sophisms , and in no reason farther to be insisted on . answ. all the discourse is not about meere relative sanctification , sure dr. hammond when he expounds sanctified cor. . . by being converted to the faith , and the same with saved v . means it of real sanctification . but were all the discourse about relative sanctification , yet the question was not vain , but attains the end for which propounded , sith cornelius accounted unclean by peter , acts . . was not out of the church of god , no not out of the church visible , being of good report among all the nation of the jews , acts . . though he were not in the policy of israel , and therefore uncleanness hath another notion then the non-admission into the visible church christian by baptism , of which is enough said before . nor are any of these things i alledge sophisms , but plain answers , nor any otherwise pittifull , then that they meet with such a such a superficial and slight reply from the dr. of the different interpretatio●s from the drs. of cor. . . in tertullian c. . de animâ , and augustin l. . de pecc . mer. & remis . c. . and l. . c. . enough before . and hieromes different interpretation , is that which is in the comment . on cor. . . in these words left out by the dr. item ide● vir & uxor invicem sanctificantur ; quia ex traditione dei sanctae sunt nuptiae , mentioned here before sect . . and ambrose or who ever was the author of that commentary under his name in locum operum tom . . sancti sunt ] quia de conjugiis legitimis natis , both which agree with my exposition . the two testimonies the dr. brings out of cyprian and nazianzen are impertinent , the former makes a distinction between baptizandum and sanctificandum , the latter if it call baptism sanctification , yet it doth nor call baptism sanctity , the word ascribed to children cor. . . and therefore rather the first part of the v. is to be expounded if any thus , sanctified id est baptized , which yeelds such a sense as the dr. will not own , and is shewed before not at all to be satisfied by him . neither the antiquity of cyprian , nor gregory nazianzen's skill in greek assures us they understood the sacred dialect . how much tertullian , whom cyprian counted his master , and how much origen of whom gregory nazianzen learned , mistook the meaning of scripture , and generally the fathers , may be discerned by their writings remaining , or if any list to take a short cut to satisfie himself , he may see much in sixt. senens . biblioth . l. . and . in the th . ch . sect . . of dr. hammonds defence there is little or nothing which at present i need reply to much of it being spoken to before . onely i have thought it necessary to go back besides my first purpose to review the two first chapters of his defence , because he doth so often tell me , that i do inartificially deny his conclusion without answering to his premises . sect . xcvi . the jewish custome of baptism for initiation , was not the pattern of christian baptism ; as dr. hammond would have it . ch. . sect. . of his defence dr. hammond having excepted against my words about waving ( though it were his own term qu. § . . ) the more imperfect ways of probation tels us ; though infant circumcision prove not infant baptism a duty , yet it evidences the lawfulness and fitness of it among christians by analogy with gods institution of circumcision among the jews , and so certainly invalidates all the arguments of the antipaedobaptist ( i. e. of mr. t. ) drawn from the incapacity of infants from the pretended necessity that preaching should go before baptizing from the qualifications required of those that are baptized , &c. for all these objections lying and being equally in force against circumcising of infants , &c. and this the rather , because the apostle compares ●aptism of christians with circumcision , col. ● . , . and then adds some savings of fathers , which are of no validity for his purpose of the other there● nothing true . for the arguments drawn from incapacity , fore going necessity of preaching , qualifications , have their force from the institution of baptism by car●t , which lye not at all against the circumcising infants , which hath another institution , and hath no analogy with baptism to acqui● infant baptism for unlawfulness or unfitness , except the dr. can prove ( which i am sure he can never do ) that the church ( as in the prelatical language he useth to speak ) hath power to make that lawfull and fit to be done in the sacraments of christ , which is otherwise th●n christ hath appointed . the apostle doth not at all compare baptism of christians with circumcision , col. . , . but these things are so fully argued review part . sect , &c. here sect . ▪ that till these sections are better answered then dr. hammond doth here , the arguments will be valid against infant baptism . the force of the drs. urging christs actions to little ones , mark . . matth. . . is so little as that in his letter qu. . § . . he confesseth they come not home distinctly to the baptizing of infants , nor do they prove any unreasonableness or uncharitableness in our objections against their baptizing of them , whom the dr. affirms not either christ or his apostles to have baptized , who had reason and charity enough to have done it , if th●● had judged i● fit to have been done . that matth. . is ridiculously applied to little children in age , is demonstrate review part . . sect . . augustins saving credit in altero qui peccavit in altero , and his reckoning infants baptized among believers , is besides the book , i mean the scripture , and to be judged as no better then a fond conceit . the lawfull b●ptizing of some professors of faith who prove hypocrites , is no colour ●o baptize non professors of faith . 't is rightly done , that that which contains no relation of christs or his apostles baptising infants , is put by him among the more imperfect probations , and such his alleging cor. . . is already shewed to be . that which the dr. saith sect. . that the fathers with one consent testifie the receiving our infants to baptism , to bee received from the apostles as the will of christ himself , is so manifestly false , that , the very first of the fathers who makes mention of it tertullian in his book of baptism ch . . disswades it and useth arguments against it , and those arguments as well are against the believers infants baptism as the unbelievers , whereby it is evident he opposed the baptism of any infants ; whereto might be a d●d the case of nazianzen , together with his judgement forementioned , as evidences that infant baptism was not the judgement and practice o● the universal church for . years . the dr. himself confesseth that peter de bruis and henry his scholler , and the petrobuciani and henriciani that sprung from them were opposers of it : and therefore the dr ▪ doth very much exc●ed truth in making it the judgment and practice of the universal church for years the term [ son of the church ] used by the dr. 〈…〉 by ●anonists , and others , and it is usual to term the church a christians mother , and by the church the prelates are usually meant , and much advantage made of it to keep christians under the yoke of bishops 〈◊〉 . but it is no scripture term : in it the elders , apostle , 〈◊〉 ●ermed fathers , cor ● . . all christians brethren and sister cor 〈…〉 ●hurch being no other then a company of b●ethen and sisters , it is very unfit to call the church a christians mother , and therefore 〈◊〉 willing not to be accounted a son of the church , nor do i acknowledge that the judgement and practise ( i● there were any such ) of the universal church for years ( letting aside the apostles of christ ) ha●h any force or authority over me , nor do i fear the incurring of gods displeasure by oppugning or contemning it , but rather considering how the apostle thes. . . tels me , that in his time the mystery of iniquity did begin to work , and the vain altercations about easter in the d . century , and many other mistakes and blemishes even in the apostles times and much more after , together with the prediction of the falling away tim. . ● . the exceptions against the seven churches of asia 〈◊〉 our lord christ himself , the imperfections that are in the writings of the first fathers after the ap●stles , the exceptions against the histories of the church , the imposing on the church suppositions treatises , the co●rupting of authors , i think i● the safest way to avoid gods displ●asure , not ●o rest on the practise or judgement of the universal church ( i● there were any such ) after the apostles , but onely on the writ●ngs of the new testament , it being highly unreasonable , as the dr. saith , that ●n institution of christs such as each sacrament is should bee judged of by any other rule ( whether the phan●es or reasons of men ) but either the word wherein the institution is set down , o● the records of the practise of christ or his apostles in scripture , which comes home to the deciding 〈◊〉 c●ntroversie of faith and manners ▪ and 〈…〉 to be ob●erved , and needs not the drs ▪ records besides scripture however conserved or made known to us , whether by unwritten tradition , or in the writings of fathers , in which there is very much uncertainty , but do deter men from adhering to this way as the inlet to many popish , and prelatical abuses and errours ; yet deny not good use may be made of the ancient writers for clearing of many truths , if they be read with judgement , and do resolve to review what hath been brought for infant baptism by the dr. out of other writers besides holy scripture . sect. . the dr. complains of mee , as doing some injury to his book in leaving out one considerable , if not principal part , viz. that which concerned the native jewish children , who were baptized as solemnly , as the proselytes and their chi●dren . ans. but by the drs. leave , in this no injury i● done him : for however he mentioned letter of resol . qu. sect . , . baptism as a known rite solemnly used among the jews in the initiating of jews and proselytes into the covenant , yet both the words i allege review part . . sect . . out of his letter q. . § . . and all other passages i yet finde in his writings , make the christian baptism of believers and their infants , to bee from the jewish custome of baptising proselytes , and children as the pattern , basis or foundation of it , no where the baptism of native jewes , is made the pattern of christian baptism , though he say § . . the baptism of the native jews was the pattern by which the baptism of the proselytes was regulated , and wherein it was founded . yea the dr. in his practical catechism l. . sect . . saith , that as among the jews when any proselyte was received in among them and entred , or initiated into their church , they were wont to use washings to denote their forsaking or washing off from them all their former prophane heathen practises ( which did not agree to the native jews ) so by christs appointment , whosoever should be thus received into his family , should bee received with this ceremony of water , therein to be dipt , i. e. according to the primitive ancient custome , to be put under water three times ; and in his letter qu. . § . . so it is directly the thing that the jewish practise , in which christ founded his institution , hath laid the foundation of in baptising proselytes and their children , and to which the primitive church conformed . to which i may add , that the proof which the dr. brings for baptising of infants from christs appointment , is thus expressed qu. . § . . receiving of disciples was the receiving of proselytes to the covenant and faith of christ , a disciple and a proselyte being perfectly all one , save onely that the latter denotes a comming from other nation , &c. which shews , that he made the baptising of proselytes and their children onely , the pattern of christian baptism . next the dr. sets down his proofs out of the talmud , gemara , and maimonides , and then concludes ; and now i may , i hope assume , that not onely there is perfect truth in what i now affirm ; that baptism among the jews belonged to their natives as well as to proselytes ( even to all that entred into covenant , and those evidently were the jewish children as well as men ) but also that this had before been evidenced in that resolution of the fourth quaere , which here mr. t. hath been pleased to examine , and consequently that it was no small injustice , and unkindness in him both to the reader and to me , that hee would omit to take notice of it , but assume and build on it as a thing yeilded and granted him by my discourse , that the proselytes only and not the native jews were partakers of that jewish baptism . this sure was a strange infirmity in an answer . answ. it is a stranger infirmity in a reply , that whereas i had expresly in the d . part of my review sect . . p. . said , after the baptism exod. . ● . the jews did not baptize jews but onely proselytes , the dr. should not take notice , that i limited my denial of the baptizing the native jews , to the time after the baptism exod. . . now i think there is not one of his allegations prove , that the jews baptized native jews after the giving of the law. i confess i was unwilling to relye on mine own judgement in this , or mr. seldens , because the dr. excepts against it ( though i thought and think still mr. selden was in the right in this , and of any man living i imagined his knowledge in things of this kind , to be most accurate and ample ) and therefore did write a letter to my ancient acquaintance mr. edward pocock professor of the oriental languages in oxford , to inform mee if i were mistaken : but whether by reason of his bodily infirmity , or miscariage of letters , or other cause ▪ i have received as yet no answer . at present having not the 〈◊〉 cited by dr. hammond , i return this answer , that none of the words as he cites them , shew that baptism was to the posterity of native jewes 〈…〉 ●he giving of the law f●r entring the covenant , not the 〈…〉 . tr . de repud . israel do not enter into covenant but by these th●●e things , by circumcision ▪ by baptizing , and by peace offering . nor these in gemara ad tit . cherithoth . c. . your fathers did not enter into the covenant but by circumcis●on and baptism , and in jabimoth c. . rabbi joshua said , we find of our mothers that they were baptized and not circumcised . nor those of maimonides tit isu●bia . c. . by three things the israelites entred into the covenant , by circumcision , baptism and sacrifice , and soon after , what was done to you , yee were initiated into the covenant by circumcision , and baptism , and sacrifice . for that out of gemara , the very words ( as the doctor himself observes ) speak of what the jews did of old time , not what was a custome continued among the jews in after times , and so i make no question but the words of the talmud are to be understood , specially when the words of maimonides counted the exactest of the rabbins in the jewish customes , set down thus out of maimon . in mis. tom . . in issurei biah ch . . § . , — , , , . do plainly shew this to have been the meaning of the hebrew drs. as i find them in ainsworth annot. on gen. . . by three things ( say the hebrew drs. ) did israel enter into the covenant , by circumcision , and baptism , and sacrifice . circumcision was in aegypt , as it is written , no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof , [ exod . . . ] baptism was in the wilderness before the giving of the law : as it is written , sanctifie them to day and to morrow , and let them wash their clothes [ exod. . . ] and sacrifice , as it is said , and hee sent young men of the sons of israel , which offered burnt offerings , &c. [ exod. . . ] and so in all ages when an ethnick is willing to enter into the covenant , and gather himself under the wings of the majesty of god , and take upon him the yoke of the law , he must be circumcised , and baptized , and bring a sacrifice . and if it bee a woman , she must be baptized and bring a sacrifice ; as it is written [ numb . . . ] as ye are , so shall the stranger be . how are ye ? by circumcision , and baptism , and bringing of a sacrifice : so likewise the stranger throughout all generations , by circumcision , and baptism , and bringing a sacrifice . out of which words this may bee collected . . that the baptizing of israel whereby they entred into covenant , was that exod. . . . that there is not in these passages any thing that shews , that the jewish baptism for entring into covenant , was of native jews after that time . . that the baptism throughout all generations , according to the jews , was of strangers . . that the jewish baptism , which was the pattern of proselytes baptism , according to numb . . . was the baptism exod. . . and not any baptism of native jews after that time . which if true , dr. hammonds reasons and allegations are plainly answered , that they prove not a custome of baptizing native jews in successive generations , to the time of giving the law at mount sinai . in which i am the more confirmed , because so learned a man as mr. selden l. . de jure nat . c. . de syn. ed. eb● . l. . c. . doth so expresly say it , but also , . because of the speech of the rabbin mentioned here by the dr. and in his letter q § . . who said , that they found that their fathers were circumcised , but not bapt●zed , that is ordinarily , which the drs. parenthesis seems to limit to abraham , isaac , &c. but is to be understood of the pa●riarchs generally , and other jewish ancestors , who were circumcised and not baptized . . because there is no other bap●ism in all the old testament , for entring into the covenant of the law , of originary or native jews mentioned . 't is true there is mention of ezek. . . of washing an infant in the day of its nativity i● supple it , and in the law many baptisms were heb. . for purifications , none for entring into covenant , that i find but that . . in the relation of the sichemites being admitted to be one people with the jews , gen. . . circumcision onely was then required without baptism . . where in the n. t ▪ the apostle ascribes to the fathers baptism , he doth not mention baptism of water , but their passing through the sea , and being under the cloud , cor. . , . for which baptism of water had been ●pter to shew correspondence to our baptism , if such a custome of baptizing for entring into the covenant native jews had been then in use . . dr. hammond himself , pract . catech. l. se●● . saith , that among the jews when any proselyte was received in among them and entred , or initiated into their church , they were wont to use washings , to denote their forsaking or washing off from them all their former prophane heathen practises , but this could not be an end in the baptizing of native jews ordinarily , for they were not born in uncleanness , but sancti●y , according to the hebrew doctors , having not been polluted with idols , and therefore the end or reason of baptizing proselytes not agreeing to the native jews that baptism was not requisite to them , and therfore used not ordinarily of them . it is true when they had gotten strange gods among them , which defiled them , they were required to be clean and change their garments , gen. . . and perhaps some defilement of the israelites by idol● in egypt , might occasion that command , exo. . . but there was no reason of this in the ordinary entring of the infants of israel into the covenant , who were not thus defiled . . the baptism of john baptist for remission of sins was distastfull to the pharisees and lawyers who thought themselves pure , luk. . , . therefore it is likely they us●d not such a baptism of native jews , as imported an acknowledgement of such defilement as they took themselves and infants to be free from . . the dr. saith letter of resol . qu. th . § . . they that were thus baptized were said to be born again , and that , as if born of a new mother , as it is oft said in the talmud , to which our saviour refers , when he talks of regeneration ( of which saith s. paul , baptism is the laver ) of being born again from above of water , &c. joh. . , . and this was so vulgar a notion among the jews that v. . christ wonders at nicodemus , that he understood it not : art thou a ruler in israel and knowest not these things ? but if there were such a regeneration by water of native israelites , which had been the pattern of the baptism of proselytes , nicodemus doubtless had known it and answered otherwise , therefore his wonderment was that christ should require regeneration of him by water , who was a jew by nature ( who need no such regeneration ) and not a sinner of the gentiles , and consequently no such known custome ordinary of baptizing native jews . . the dr. ibid § . . saith , ●hey that were thus received as proselytes by baptism put off their former relations of kinred , &c. to which surely our saviour refers , when he talks of leaving father and mother mark . . and tacitus the historian , nec quicquam prius imbuuntur quàm exuere patriam , parentes , liberos , fratres vilia habere ; their proselytes are first taught after renouncing the gods , to put off their countrey , parents , children , brethren , to despise them . and the later jews have a saying , that he tha● hath maried his own sister , or entred any the most incestuous bands , by becoming a proselyte cease●h to have that near relation of bloud to her , and may 〈…〉 with her as with a ●ife : which false su●erstructure in them is ye● a testimony of ●he truth , whereon it is falsly founded by them and this is a testimony also of this , that the jews did not thus baptize native jews , because they never allowed such incest , at they would have done , if they had by baptism regene●ated thus native jews , and conceived of the effect of it , as they did of proselytes baptism . . we read of the circumcision of christ , john baptist , timothy , paul , but wee read not of their baptism by water as the custome of the jewes was to enter into the covenant proselytes ; therefore there was not a custome of baptizing native jewes infants . . there 's no way mentioned of initiating jewish females by any ceremony into judaism , no description in the talmud , gemara , maimonides , of observing any such thing as the dr. sets down letter of resol . q. . sect . . concerning proselytes to have been used towards the jews , sundry of the things done to the proselytes at their baptism , were such as were proper to strangers ; as namely , the baptizing into the name of a freed man or a servant , the limitation of the priviledges of the baptized , which are evidences that this baptism was not used to native jews , but onely to gentile proselytes . all which being considered , there was neither unkindness , nor injustice to dr. hammond or his reader in my discourse , and it is necessary for him to consider better the considerations which i have offered in this matter ( unless hee will become non-suit ) which have certainly force in them , though this thing were omitted by me , which yet was not perfectly omitted ( as his language is ) by me , nor the contrary supposed without proof . but the dr. however refuseth not to attend me in all my motions , and i hope i shall at long running overtake him . to what i said , baptism , it seems was a custome of all nations as well as the jews , ci●ing grotius for it on matth. . . and matth. . . the dr. answers , of the truth of this observation i shall raise no question , onely i wonder what he could fancy from thence to conclude for his advantage , and then he fals to ●onjecturing . but by my words he might have easily res●lved himself what i aimed at in this , to wit , to shew the jews baptism of parents and children is not undeniably proved to be the pattern of christian baptism , and christs institution of baptism but a copy according to that pattern , i● i● bee true that it were derived from the ●ame common fountain , the ●ons of noah in remembrance of the deluge , according to that famous verse among the greeks , the sea sweeps away all the evils of men , to which s. pe●●● alludes in making baptism the ant●type ●o noahs floud , which the dr ye●ds . to this i added , that i knew not that dr. h. or any o●her h●th alleged one passage in scripture or any of the fathers , that might evince that the custome of baptizing , or baptizing infants , was derived from the jews initiating proselytes by baptism . to this , saith dr. h i answer , . by asking mr. t. whether he be ready to pay th●t reverence to the authority of the fathers , as to bee concluded by their affirmations ? to which i say , i am ready to pay that reverence to the fathers which is meet , but to be concluded by their affirmations is more then is fi● , t●e same liberty is to be allowed mee , which learned men take usually to diss●n● from them , when scripture or reason lead another way . he ●aith , if he be wonder why the uniform consent of them that infants are to be baptized should not prevail with him ? answ. and i wonder . that the dr. should pretend an uniform consent of the fathers , that infants are to be baptized , when for the two first ages , there 's not any just evidence of the consent of one father for it ; in t●e third there is a dissent of tertullian , and in the th . of nazianzen , and the rarity of its use ; and tha● upon such erroneous grounds , as it was practi●ed with infant communion , which had alike consent , and in so ridiculous a manner , as to propound questions of its faith and devoti●n to an infant , who could not understand or speak , and put in others to undertake and answer for an infant , who could neither promise for them wi●h●ut arrogant presumption what was not in their power , no● profess their faith without apparent untruth argue it to have been a corruption . . that the uniform consent of the apostles and apostolical men , with christ and john bapti●● in scripture , should not more prevail with a man who makes the scripture his canon , then fathers of those ages , wherein ma●y errours and corruptions were received , and either hatched or fostered by them , but that hee should not onely dare to practise the corrupt innovation of infant baptism ▪ of which there is no instance in scripture , but also omit the baptism of believers , and oppose it , and harden men in their conceits , as if they were baptized in infancy sufficiently , and for that reason to b●e reckoned among christians , though meer strangers from the knowledge or practise of christianity . he adds , if he be not , why doth he mention this as usefull in this matter ? answ. to shew how little credit is to be given to the drs. dictates without proof . the dr. adds . but then dly , it must be adverted that this one containing two questions in it , . whether this of initiating into the covenant by baptism were a jewish custome ? . whether from thence christ derived this right of baptizing christians ? the former of these was that which alone required proving , the latter being of it self evident , without fa●ther p●obation ; supposing onely that the fathers testified that to b● christs institutio● of baptism , which we find to have been thus agreeable to the p●actise customary among the jewes . and this ●e illustrates by the like examples of excommunication , and the post . c●nium , from whence he conc● vs christ derived the lords supper and excommunication by the apostles . answ. for p●esent , omitting the instances of the lords supper , as d●ive fro● the jewish post c●nium , and excommunication apostolical r●sp●ct jewi●● , it hath been yeeld●d by me , that christian baptism was in 〈◊〉 of the rite like jewish baptism of proselytes , acknowledged to hav● been a custome among them for initiating them ( not of native jews 〈◊〉 the giving of the law ) into the covenant , and it is probable that j●hn baptist foll●wed in the external act that rite , though to another end , he b●ptizing with the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , they into he observance of the law for righteousness , and other subjects ; john baptist ●ews by nature , not so pharises . and as john ●aptist practised , so christ appointed , and his apostles practised baptism with express mention of the trinity or the name of christ somewhat differently f●om john : and if the one be said to be derived from the other by way of accommodation , i shall not contend about it , nor do i de●y tha● christ alluded to this baptism of proselytes , joh. . , . in the manner i have expressed before , and the d . part of this review sect . . nor do i ●eny that the jewish , christian , and gentile baptisms may have their first ri●e from noahs deluge , but that which i insist on ●s , that the jewish use was was not so conformable to the christian , as that it can be true that the jewish was th● pattern of the christian. as for the fathers ▪ nazianzen , ma●arius ▪ athanasius , their words seem not to m● to make a comparison between the bap●ism jewi●h and christian for initiation , but the christian and jewish which was occasionally renewed upon any legal defilement , or often ite●ated by the priests for purification or sanctifying and so the words of athanasius cited by the dr. in●imate , which say , the d. is the legal baptism which the hebrews had , whereby every unclean person ( not ●very one who was so by natu●e , as the dr. a●ds , but by accident ) was baptised in water ( as oft as he was defiled ) had his garment● washed , and so en●red into the camp ; whic● was ano●her baptism then that t●e dr. makes the pattern of christian baptism , to wit , that which was once onely used for initiation , and of this i think the dr. findes no mention in the fathers , nor of the derivation of christian baptism from it . that which the dr. saith sect . . p. . from the talmud , that when a proselyte is received he must be circumcised , and then when hee is cured , they shall baptise him in the presence of two wise men , saying , behold he is as an israelite in all things ; addi●g , a plain testimony ( to the sense of those which we formerly produced ) of baptising both jews and proselyte , ( for else how could the proselyte , upon receiving this , be said to be a israelite in all things ? ) answ. two wayes ; . in respect of the rite , he was circumcised and baptised , as the israelites at the giving of the law exod. . . ( not after that time ) were baptised ; an● the proselytes p●sterity were then not after this time of the first initiation into the jewish people . . in respect of priviledges and profession , as it is said ester . . many of the people of the land became jews . neither this then nor the other , are plain or obscure testimonies of baptising native jews , for ini●iating into the covenant af●er the giving of the law. that which i said that i alleged , that mr. selden de syned . ehra . l. . cap. . p. , . mention● some , who have conceived that t●e jewish baptism in initiating proselytes , was in imitation of christs example , though he do not believe it ; and that schickardus conceives , they added a certain baptism to c●rcumcision , to difference them from samaritans , to shew that notwithstanding dr. hs. supposition , that the whole fabrick he frames of baptism , is discernable to be built on that basis the customary baptism among the ●ews , yet many will conceive it needs more proof then the bare recital of passages out of jewish writers , is a conclusion drawn out of the premises in the first figure , thus ; that is not so discernable but that many will conceive it needs m●re proof then the bare recital of passages out of jewish writers , which was not so conceived by schickard , and some others mentioned by mr. s●lden . but the drs. supposition was not so conceived by those , ergo. the ma●or rests on two things ; . that experience shews , what some others who had understanding to conceive did not conceive to be so , many its likely will not discern ▪ . that the later jewish writers are not such certain proof of the ancient jews customes , but that more proof may bee justly required then the bare recital of passages in them . it is not unknown that some have excepted against ainsworths allegation of rabbins , and that in his apology for it he himself saith , some things i note from them , not as approving them my self absolutely , but leaving them to the further consideration of the prudent . preface to his annot . on gen. nor is it unusual for rabbins to dissent one from another , and christian writer from jewish about their custome . though i have no engine to draw many out of two , nor were two onely mentioned by me ( for though mr. selden cite onely petrus alfunsus for the first , yet he cites him a● ascribing the thing to more then one , nec defuere ex judaeis christiani aliquot , &c. ) yet from the instance of two such which have so conceived , i might ●rationally infer the likelihood , that many would not be satisfied with the passages of the writers cited by him , much less with the inference of the dr. makes from thence . but hee tels me , to evidence to how little purpose i said thus much , i confess my conceit of such a custome of baptising proselytes afore christs incarnation among the latter jewes . yet i thinke it was to much purpose notwithstanding this my conceit , sith thereby the foundation of the drs. fabrick is in●imated to be such , as though i pull it not down others may . i said , that either that custome should begin from jacobs injunction to his houshold gen. . . or from gods command exod. . . for the israelites to wash their clothes afore the giving of the law ( though the jewish doctors allege these for it ) i do not conceive ( not as the dr. misre●ites me he cannot ) those places speaking of washing jews by nature , not proselytes , whereas the jews baptized not jews by nature , as selden de jure nat . &c. l. . c. . saith , but by profession . here , saith the dr. are many weak parts in these few words . for . the original of the cu●tome among the jews is but an accessary wholly extrinsecal ●o the matter in hand ▪ and in no respect necessary to be defined by us . if the custome be acknowledged we need ask no more , for on that and not on that particular original of it , it is that we superstruct our whole fabrick , as far as belongs to infant ba●tism . answ. be i● so , yet it was no weak part to examine the original of that custome ; nor impertinent , sith if the o●iginal come from unwritten tradition of elders , it is somewhat the less likely christ would make it the pattern of his baptism , who neglected the traditions of the elders , and excepted against them . mark . , , , , . but then secondly , sai●h he , for the two originals here set down and both rejected by him , it is a little strange that he should think fit to do so , and not to substitute any third in the place of them . answ. neither was this any weak part , ●ith the originals of such customes ar● so obscure , that there are few of them , whose head is known . the dr. i suppose cannot shew the original of the post coenium among the jews , of giving milk and honey to the newly baptised among christians , and yet i su●pose the dr. counts not this a weak part yet mr. ●oseph mede in his diatr. on tit. . . find ●nother original , to wit , that custome of washing infants from the pollutions of the womb , when ●hey are first born , mention●d ez●k . . . and gathered from the answer o● an oracle in a story related by plutarch in his quaestiones romana , not farre from the beginning . hence ( saith he p. . ) the ●ews before iohn the baptist came amongst them , were wont by this rite to initiate such , as they made proselytes , ( to wit ) as becomming infants again and entring in●o a new life , and being , which before they had not . w●ich derivation of its original suits better with the opinion of regeneration by it , in allusion to which as a vulgar notion among t●e jews , the dr. conceivs christ spake ioh . . and the jews imagined old kindred to be lost , and this is a good evidence , that they baptized not native jews , who were not by them conceived to be born again , nor to have any need as being born in sanctity , not in uncleaness matth. . . ioh. . . dly , saith he , for iacobs injunction to his houshold , gen. . . it is no where vouched by me as the original of this custome among the jews , but onely an intimation given , that that other , the command of god before the giving the law , was agreeable to what we read of iacob to his houshold , and so certainly it is . answ. be it so , yet jewish writers and others derive it from gen. . . and therefore there was no weak part shewed in my intimation of my dissent . thly , saith he , the command of god , exod. . . in which baptism is said to be founded by the jews , is not ( as mr. t. suggests ) the command to the israelites to wash their clothes ( nothing but the custome of changing their garments can be founded i● that ) but the command to moses to sanctifie them ( go unto the people and sanctifie them to day and to morrow ) in the hebrew notion of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctifications , for washing , either the whole or some parts of the body , as is shewed at large § . . if mr. t. did this unwittingly , he may now reform his mistake ; if wittingly , &c. i sha●l not then hope even this length of words will be sufficient for his conviction . answ. neither in this do i think i shewed weakness or deceit , though i did it wittingly , following herein mr. selden , ● . de syned e● . c. . p. , &c , where i think he hath proved by the washing of the cloathes is meant the washing of the whole body , and that thereby is exp●essed the baptism whence the later jews say they took the use of baptzing proselytes , and not by the term [ sanctifie them : ] which was to be done by moses not onely once , but two days together , and seems to be from v. . by his keeping them from their wives , and perh●ps some other ways whether offering sacrifice , or anointing ( by which way also sometimes persons are said to be sanctified as exod. . . and here the priests are bid sanctifie themselves , exod . . ) or some other way . to me it is improbable that by sanctifying , exod. . . is mean baptising , though i think it a general term comprehending that and some other acts . and thus i hope the reader will perceive i neither intended to disguise any thing , nor misguide any man. lastly , the dr. conceives my reason very vain , for the jews baptized jews by nature ▪ and it is evidenced from it they took the baptized proselytes , according to numb . . . and so it is evident , that of exod. ● . . being the original of baptizing native jews , may , and must be the original of baptizing the proselytes . answ. but neither doth it yet appear to me there is any weak part or v●nity in this reason , nor hath the dr. proved the custome of baptising iews by nature , nor do i find the evidences the dr. brings to opp●●e mr. selden , or that i made any misadventure in my few words , sect . dr. h. thinks reason not to be tied to mr. seldens authority , which i reject when ●tis not for my turn ; which i grant when the dr. gives such reason of dissent as i did in my rejection of mr. selden's interpretation of cor. ▪ . and for the drs. interpretation , neither hath he cleared it by his shewing my mistake of his meaning . for neither were the native iews wont to be initiated by baptism , nor is my reason avoided against his interpretation . for if the sense of the dr. bee , our fathers were baptized into moses as native jews are wont to be initiated by baptism , yet the dr. errs from the apostles meaning , which is , that our fathers the israelites were baptized into moses , as well ( not as the jews in after time by their baptism , but ) as wee christians by christian baptism into christ. whether the jews custome was to baptize native jews after the giving the law , hath been argued before ; i proceed to my main position , and the drs. answer to it . i set down my position thus ; nor do i think it true that the customary use of the jews in baptizing proselytes and their children , was the pattern of christs institution of baptism , and the apostles and first churches practise . for according to the custome of the jews , john baptist , and christs apostles should have baptized no native jews , which was not so , but of all nations as christ appointed , matth. . . to this the dr. answers . by asserting they did baptize native jews . to this the reply is by denial of this , and reserting to the proof before . . saith the dr. nay so they might , though the iews had baptized none but proselytes , for to that it would bear just proportion , that they should baptize both iews and gentiles , in case both of them came in as proselytes . answ. but this answer is a fallacy a little too gross to deceive any man of common understanding . for if the jews baptized no native jews , but proselytes ( not to christ ) but to the jewish people , and their baptism was the pattern ( which was the drs. word ) of christian baptism , then christ should have appointed , and iohn baptist and the apostles practised baptism to no jew , though a proselyte to christ ; for each thing ought to be appointed and done according to the pattern , and no otherwise , that which is otherwise is not according to the pattern , though it bear a proportion with it . my argument was not as the dr. makes it , the custome was to baptize proselytes and not natives ; therefore christ if be observed that custome was not to baptize native iews , but thus ; therefore if christ had made their custome his pattern , he would not have appointed them to be baptized . if moses had varied from the pattern shewed him in the mount , he had not made it his pattern , so it had been in this , if the jewish baptism had been christ and his apostles pattern . . i said , christ would not have avouched the baptism of iohn to be from heaven and not from men , if it had been in imitation of , and conformity to the jewish custome . to this the dr. saith , but i wonder what appearance of concludency there is in that reason ? may not any thing be from heaven or by gods appointment which is derived from a jewish custome ? god may appoint a ceremony known among men to be used in his service . answ. i grant it , but then the appointment of god is the pattern by which it is to be regulated , not mens custome ; i do not conceive that can be said to be from heaven or god but from men , which is derived from , founded in and regulated by as its pattern , a custome of men ; as the dr. saith of the christian baptism , that it is derived from ▪ founded in and regulated by the jewish baptism ( not pretended to bee an institution of god but an humane invention ) a● the pattern whence it is copied out even by christ , according to the dr. letter of resol . q● . . § . . . if it had been the pattern i said , it is likely some where or other some intimation would have been given , as the directory for christians in the use of baptism . this , saith the dr. is too frivolous to require reply ; for besides that , the negative argument were of no force , if it were 〈◊〉 is pretended ; it already appears that there are in the jewish writers more then intimations of this custome , and some indications of it even in the scripture it self ; as joh. . , . and for any plainer affirmations , what need could there be of them , when both the matter it self speaketh plainly , that there was no need of words to those that knew the jewish customes , as the first writers and readers of the new testament did , and when christs sole authority and practise of his apostles were sufficient directory for the christians in the use of baptism ? answ. the dr. might more truly have said , this reason is too weigh●y to be removed by his reply . for . the thing it self is of very great moment to tender consciences , who know of what moment it is that the great solemn ordinance of baptism should not be prophaned , but rightly used . . without a certain directory , no person can with peace seek baptism , nor minister give it . . the apostle saith for want of right observing the lords supper ( and there is the like reason of baptism ) gods judgement overtook the corinthians , cor. . . . that an abuse is to be rectified by christs appointment , cor. . . though the dr. say , the lords supper was derived and lightly changed from the jewish observance of the post . c●nium , yet did the apostle not make their custome the directory to regulate it by , but christs appointment and example ; and therefore such a negative argument is of invincible force in this case , if it be as i pretend ; there is no intimation given in scripture of that custome as the directory for christians in the use of baptism , therefore that custome is not the pattern by which it is to be regulated , for otherwise it were very tyrannous , for christ to impose a law on mens consciences , to practise a rite after a pattern altogether unknown , and not so much as directed to . to say the first writers and readers of the new testament knew the jewish customes , is nothing to us , unless they had told us what they were , and that wee are to follow them . and if they did not tell us , they dealt unfaithfully in not doing that which was necessary to bee done for our information . . the declarations in the jewish writers cannot be our directory unless we were directed to them as our rule , or they were as the canonical scriptures to us . . the jewish writers which mention this custome are later writers then the apostles time , and therefore they could not bee the directory , except we were referred to them by prognostication . . the jewish writers could not be a directory , except they could be had and read by those that need information from them . but how few of those millions of christians and preachers , who have need of direction in this thing , have heard much less have read , the jewish writers , the talmud , gemara , maimonides ? . how uncertain are their determinations , even to those that read them , how cross one to another , appears somewhat by what is said before . . their intimations of this custome are but obscure , and their declarations in sundry of the points in difference with so little evidence , that such as dr. h. and mr. selden d●ffer about them . . the indications in scripture joh. . , . are not such but that ( as hath been shewed ) it may well be doubted , whether they point at the custome of baptizing for initiating into covenant , or another usage at the birth of infants . . the matter it self speaketh not at all to us who know not the usage . . the dr. himsel● saith p. . here , it is highly unreasonable that an institution of christs , such as each sacrament is , should be judged of by any other rule , but either the words wherein the institution is set down , or by the records of the practise , whether of christ or the apostles , therefore it is highly unreasonable that the controversie of infant baptism should be judged by jewish writers . . if christs sole authority , and practise of his apostles , be sufficient dire●●ory for christians in the use of batism , as the dr. saith here , he doth very ill to make the jewish custome not known but by jewish writers of dubious credit the pattern of it , and to expound christs institution by it , as if the dial were to be set by the clock , and not the clock by the dial ; and all the drs. pains about the jewish custome of baptising is superfluous , and so one●ous to the reader ; and his way of probation of infant baptism , which he counts more perfect then other ways , is found to be most imperfect and of no validity , but meerly delusory . i added . the institution and practise would have been conformable to it . the dr. tels me , and so i say and have made it cleur that it was , as far as to the controversie in hand we are or can bee concerned in it . to which i return ▪ . that if the jewish custome were the pattern whence christ copied out baptism , it was so in all things , or else it was not the pattern , no man calls that the pattern , which having many particuiars in it , is followed but in one . . the dr. hath not made it appear by any testimony of scripture or father , but onely by his own confident speeches , that ever christ copied out his institution of baptism from the jewish custome , or if he did , it is most evident both from the commission matth. . . and from all the practise in the new testament , if he altered it in any thing he altered it in this thing ; though the dr. would face us down , he hath made clear ( by nothing but his own sayings ) that the institution and practise of christ and his apostles have been conformable to it , as far as to the controversie in hand he is or can bee concerned in it . yet he hath so much ingenuity as to add , but saith mr. t. the contrary appears , adding one main instance of the inconformity , and . lesser disparities ; the main disparity , saith he , is in their baptizing no infants of the gentile at their first conversions , whereas the jews baptized onely the gentiles infants at their first proselyting , not the infants of those who were baptized in infancy . for the former of these he offers no manner of proof beyond his own affirmation , and therefore it is sufficient to deny it ▪ a● he knowes we do , and evidently begs the question in assuming and not offering any proof to the contrary . answ. this is refuted so fully by all the fore going sections of that book of mine to which he answers , and the confessions of my antagonists , and the story of the new testament all along , besides what is said in this part of the review , sect . . . that i think the dr. hardly could say this without reluctancy of conscience . that he denied , that at their first conversions no infants of the gentiles were baptized by the apostles i did not know , yea i had reason from his own words letter of resolut . qu. . § ▪ ● to conceive he did not deny it , forasmuch as if any place did evince the baptizing of infants of gentiles at their first conversion , they must be those places acts . . cor. . . yet the dr. saith , the mention in scripture of the apostles baptizing a whole houshold at once , acts . . is not of it self demonstrative or convincing : because that wider phrase may possibly be restrained to those that heard and believed in that family , and it is not certain of either of these , the go●lers or stephanus houshold , that they had any so young as infants in their family ; therefore it is confessed , that no concluding argument can be deduced thence . if he deny it now he affirms the contrary , and so is to prove it , which that he either hath done or ever will , i do not imagine . a negative argument from divine testimony in this case is demonstrative , till the contrary be made good . the dr. adds , for the second , that of the jewish practise he pretends no more then what hee had before cited by reference ( but now sets down in words ) viz. the affirmation of mr. selden . but i have already shewed how groundless that affirmation of mr. s. was , as to the native jews children , who were still baptized after the giving of the law. and the same i now add for the children of those proselytes who had been baptized in infancy there appears not the least proof of this from the jewish writers , who are the onely competent witnesses in it . answ. if there were no more proof brought then what hath been , that the jews baptizing the infants at first proselytism , and the apostles no infants at first conversion , it were proved ; that the apostles practise of baptism was not conformable to the jewish custome : and for the other point , mr. seldens affirmation is in the judgement of such as knew both , as good as dr. hammonds negation . i confess i have not those jewish writers he refers to , nor some books of mr. selden de successione in bona defuncti , c. . lib. . de successione in pontificatu cap. . in which by his reference i guess he hath more ●ully handled this point , yet do i imagin , that knowing the accurateness of the writer , any reader will conceive that he had clear evidence for what he wrote , or else he would not have so often and so plainly avouched it , that the children of proselytes after the first baptizing were not baptized , but onely circumcised according to the jewish custome . but the dr. saith , but for the contrary , i propose these two testinies taken notice of by mr. s. himself de synedr . c. . out of gemara babylon . he wants the right of a proselyte for ever , unless he be baptized and circumcised . here baptism and circumcision are joyned together , as equally necessary to a proselyte and that for ever . and circumcision there is no doubt was to be received by every male , no● onely at their first comming to the church of the ●ews , at their first proselytism , but through all posterities , every child of a proselyte that was not circumcised , became straightwayes no proselyte . and then sure this conjunction of baptism with circumcision on these terms of equality , both of perpetual necessity to all proselyte● , must needs extend the baptism as well as the circumcision , beyond the first proselytes and their immediate children , to all their posterity that shall come from them afterwards , for to all those belonged circumcision . so again in the same place , and if he be not baptized , hee remains a pagan or gentile ; here i shall ask whether the childe of a proselyte who had been baptized in his infancy , were to be a fagan for ever ? i suppose it will be answered , no ; and then by the force of that testimony of gemara i conclude , therefore it must bee supposed that he was baptized , for else he would be a pagan for ever . answ. it were very strange that mr. selden should in the same chapter in which he cites those words , lib. . de syn●d . c. . p. . assert p. . before , and p. . after , that neither jews children after the giving the law , nor proselytes children after their first baptism , should be baptized , if the words there did import the contrary . and therefore though i want the book to consider it , yet i doubt not the sense of the words is plain thus , that the gentile who is not baptized at first as well as circumcised , wants for ever , not onely a little while , the right of a proselyte , and is the very same which both selden there p. . cites out of maimonides issuri ●ia . c. and ainsw . annot . on gen. . . a stranger that is circumcised and not baptized , or baptized and not circumcised , he is not a proselyte till he be both circumcised and baptised . so that the sense is not as the dr. would , that no proselytes child shall have the right of a proselyte , unless that child be as well baptised as circumcised , but this , that he that at his first proselytism is onely circumcised and not baptised , shall still want the right of a proselyte as if he were not circumcised at all , till he be baptised as well as circumcised . and that to be the meaning , is plain out of the words that selden cites from the same book p. . a little after , where r. eliezers opinion being that a person may be a proselyte if circumcised though not baptised , because so were their fathers ; and rabbi j●shuah's that he was a proselyte who was baptised and not circumcised , because so were their mothers ; it is said , that the wise men nevertheless have pronounced , that if any have been baptised and not circumcised , or circumcised and not baptised , he is not a proselyte till he is as well baptised as circumcised ; and the same is the sense of the other speech . so that those words do not speak of any other then the first proselytes baptism of that race , not of the posterity , nor of the conjunction of baptism and circumcision but at the first entrance into the covenant ; and therefore to the drs. question i say , the posterity of a proselyte were israelites not pagans , though they were not baptised in their own persons by vertue of the parents baptism , if they were not born before it . the dr. proceeds thus ; besides this two things i farther add , to remove all possible force of this suggestion ; . that if it were granted in the full latitude wherein it is proposed , that the jews baptized no other infants of proselytes , but those whom they had at their first conversion ; yet this would nothing profit mr. t. for it were then obvious to affirm , that christ who imitated the jews in that , and so baptised the children of christian proselytes , did make some light change in this , and farther then the pattern before him afforded , baptized all the posterity that should succeed them , and were born in the church in their infancy also , the reason though not the patte●n belonging equally to them as to the children of the first proselytes , and the jewish custome of baptizing their natives infants beeing fully home to it . answ. the dr. having tried to prove the posterity of the proseselytes born after their proselytism , to have been won● to bee baptized by the jews , but distrusting it's likely it would not hold , yet thinks to use another engine , though it be as weak as the rest . for . he supposeth , the jews baptised native jews infants after the giving the law , which is not true . . that christ imitated the jews in baptising proselytes children at first proselytism , and so baptised the children of christian proselytes at their first conversion , which is manifestly false . . that the iews baptism was the pattern before christ , which is the thing in question . . that some children are born in the church christians , which is a mistake . . that he made some light change in that of not baptising proselytes posterity , and farther then the pattern before him afforded , baptised all the posterity that should succeed them , and were born in the church in their infancy also . which is a palpable falshood , it being certain that christ baptized none , nor appointed the baptizing of any christians infants , and is against the dr. for . if the custome were changed by christ , then it was not the pattern . . the same proofs which shew a change in this , shew as much a change in the other . . this change is ill called a light change , which made so large a perpetual addition . . if the pattern did not belong equally to all the christians posterity , as to the children of the first proselytes , then the reason did not belong to them , sith the pattern according to the dr. is all or the main reason , basis or foundation of infant baptism with him . . it is also false , that the reason of baptising the after children of proselytes , or the native iews infants after the giving of the law was as before , sith the reason of baptism given by the rabbins is the uncleanness of the baptized , which they deny of native jews after the giving the law , and of proselytes posterity born after their baptism . so that it may be easily perceived , that the dr. hath not avoided the force of my objection against the jews baptizing being christs pattern , but heaped up many mistakes , and some against himself . dly , saith he , that it being by all granted , that the children which the proselytes had , at their first proselytism were baptized among the jews ; this is as evident a confutation of the antipaedobaptist , and so of mr. t. as it would if all their infants to all posterity were baptized ; for by that very baptising of the infants at their first proselytism , it appears that infants may be baptized , for i hope those proselytes infants are infants ; and if any infants may and ought to be baptized , then are all their pretensions destroyed , whose onely interest it is to evince , that no inf●nts most or may be baptised . and i hope this will be of some use to mr. t. when he shall have considered it . answ. it is so , for thereby i perceive the inconsiderateness and va●●ty of the drs. writing . ● grant the one confutes me as well as the other , that is not at all . for what consequence is in this , i grant the jews baptized proselytes children at first proselytism , and this they did according to their custome ; therefore ● must grant that some infants of christians may and ought to be baptized by christian baptism ? did i ever grant that the jewish baptism of any infants is to be our pattern , or was christs pattern ? yea , do i not dispute against it ? what a frivolous reason is this of so famous a dr. for by that very baptising of the infants at their first proselytism , it appears that infants may be baptized , for i hope those proselytes infants are infants ? how doth it appear that what the jews did we may do ? were infants of proselytes to be baptized because they were infants ? or are our infants to be baptized because infants , as the drs. reason intimates ? to omit his non sense of hoping that infants are infants , i tell him that i have considered this , and that i finde it of no force to remove my suggestion , that my pretensions are not destroyed , but that he hath shewed more futility in this passage , so seriously presented to my consideration , then i should easily have imagined in such a man as he is . but yet the dr. adds , the onely way mr. t. hath to confirm this of the jews not baptising any infants of proselytes born after their fi●st conversion , and baptism is the resolution of the jews , that if a woman great with child became a proselyte and were baptized , her child needs not baptism when 't is born . and this i had cited § . . out of the rabbins , and so indeed i find it in maimonides ▪ tit . isuribia . c. . but i cannot think that ( whether true or false ) a sufficient proof to infer the conclusion ; for the jewish drs. might probably thus resolve upon this other ground , because the mother and the child in her womb , being esteemed as one person , the woman great with child being baptized , they might deem the child baptized as well as the woman , and not account it needfull to repeat it after the birth , which yet ( by the way ) it seeems they would have done , if they had not deemed the child all one with the mother , and consequently they must bee supposed to baptise those children which were begotten to the proselyte after the time of his or her first conversion and baptism . and accordingly the christian doctors in the councel of neocaesare● can . . having resolved the contrary to that jewish hypothesis , viz. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that the mother that bears the child differs from the child , or is not at all one with it ; and her confession in baptism is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proper or particular to her self , and belongs not to the childe in her womb , give the ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) the woman that is with child , and is then converted to the faith , leave to be baptised when she pleases , supposing that the child which then she carries , shall , notwithstanding her baptism , then be its self baptised after its birth . which as it is a clear answer to the argument deduced from the resolution of the jews in that point , so 't is moreover an evidence how little of proof mr. t. had either from his own observation , or mr. seldens testimonies , from all which he can produce no other but this , which in the sound is so far from affirming what he would have , and upon examination is found to conclude the contrary . answ. the dr. hath a strange fancy , to think he can conclude the contrary to what i infer from those words of the jewish drs. that when they resolve the child needs not be baptized , therefore they were wont to bap●ize the children of proselytes born after their proselytism , as if the jewish custome were contrary to their drs. resolution , when they say it needs not , yet they should do it ; if so , how vainly doth the dr. talk but a little before , that the jewish writers are the onely competent witnesses in this thing ] and proves all along this chapter their custome by these very writers ? but let 's heed his reason ; the jewish drs. might resolve it upon another ground , the childs being one with the mother , and so the b●ptism needless to that child , which yet by the way ( or rather out of the way ) it seems they would have done , if they had not deemed the childe all one with the mother , and consequently other children must be supposed to be baptized . ] so the dr. upon an imaginary ground , of which he brings no proof or shew of proof , and a conjecture of his own , that seems to him but to none else , infers downright they must be supposed to baptise other children . it must be so , because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he is a rabbin , dr. chair , of the irrefragabilis magister noster ; if he say the right hand is the left we must say so too ▪ but yet i am joannes ad appositum , and think i have better cards to shew for my inference then dr. h. for his ▪ mr. selden who is also joannes ad oppositum l. . de jure nat . &c. c. . p. . speaks not doubtfully like dr. h. when he puts in hi● parenthesis ( whether true or false ) but cites gema● . babylon . ad tit. jabim . cap. . fol. . a and maimonides halach isuri bia . c. . shulcan aruch lib. jore dea cap. . b and having set down the jewish doctors resolution , that if a woman great with childe be made a proselyte , and so received by baptism , her child needs not baptism ; ] he adds , nimirum ex co quod nata est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seu in sanctita●e matris aut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in ejus judaismo ( nam hisce sic ut untur vocibus ) proselyti seu matris conditionem induebat , that is , to wit because in as much as it was born in the holiness of the mother , or in her judaism ( for so they use these words ) it put on the condition of the mother , ] that is , was holy , or a jew as the mother , and so needed not baptism , which plainly shews they counted not their children who were holy , or jews born after the parents bap●ism to need baptism , and consequently did not bap●ize them . nor doth the resolution of the council of neocaesarea any whit help the doctour . for what consequence is in this , there were some christians in the th ▪ century since christ , who did imagine the mothers baptism might serve for the child , perhaps ( for that 's the drs. conjecture onely ) because they thought the child and mother one , therefore the jewish drs. resolution is upon that ground , and to be limited to those onely ? and for the drs. mention of the words of the council , it is against himself , though imperfectly done ; for . it supposeth , the mother that bears the child differs from the child , and her confession in baptism is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , proper or particular to her self , and belongs not to the childe in her womb ; ] therefore according to the resolution of that council in baptism , the parent and childe are not one , nor the parents confession of faith stands for the child . . it expresly affirmeth two things which quite destroy paedobaptists principles . . that in baptism she that bringeth forth communicates nothing to the child brought forth , therefore the parents faith or baptism communicates no priviledge , or right of baptism to the child . . that every ones free choise in confession is shewn or to be shewn in baptism ; the●efore no child is to b● baptized according to that councils determination , but upon its own confession out of free choise shewed or signified by it self . but of this canon i have said something before . by this which is said i● appears how far the dr. hath bin from giving a clear answer to the ●●gument , or examining any thing ( as it was fi● he should and that rather he hath so handled this point , as if his study were like protagoras in gellius , to make a bad cause to seem good , or anaxagoras to prove snow black . ●ect . . the dr. writes thus ; this grand disparity then being cleared to be mr. t. his mistake , i shall not need to attend his other instances of disparity , this accord which hath been already mentioned and vindicated , bein● sufficient to my pretensions , and no concernment of mine obliging me to believe or affirm , that the parallel holds any farther then christ was please● it should , and of that we are to judge by what the scriptures or ancient church tels us was the practice of him o● his apostles ; for . the jews i doubt not brought in many things of their own devising into this , as into other institutions of gods , and the later jews more , as of the proselytes being so born again in baptism , that lying with his natural sister was no incest , and the like : and . christ , i doubt not , changed the jewish oeconomy in many things , as in laying aside circumcision , in commissionating his disciples to baptize ( and they leaving it in the hands of the bishop , and those to whom he should commit it . it is not lawful to baptize without the bish●p , sai●h ignatius , ep ad smyrn edit . voss. p. . ) whereas it was not among the jews any part of the priests office , any more then circumcision was ; and so in many other particulars . but what is that to my pre●ensions , who affirm no more of the accordance betwixt the jewish and christian practice , then either by some indications in the scrip●u●e it self , or by the christian fathers deductions from the apostles times , appears to be meant by christ , and practised by the apostles ▪ and then by the jewish writers is as evident to have to have been in use among them . and this is all the return i need make to hi● fourt●en l●sser disparities , and all that he hath at large ende●vo●red to infer from the● , supp●sing and granting them all to be such . answ. dr. h. had expresly asserted the ●ewish custome of baptising proselytes , to be the pattern , whence christian baptism was copied out , and what is set down in the n. t. i. e. in the words of christs institution , or in his or the apostles practise , he calls a copy of their custome as the pattern , letter of resol . qu. . § . . and what was the jewish custome , he proves onely from the talmud , gemara , maimonides , or other jewish writers ▪ and says p. . they are the onely competent witnesses in it , which if so , his pretensions are made void if there be one , much more if there be one main one , and . lesser disparities . for sure what is a pattern must be followed , and is in all , or else it ceaseth to be a pattern . had moses made that which was shewed him in the mount his pattern , if he had onely done according to it in two , or three , or one thing and not in the rest ? besides , how doth or can the dr. prove the one to have been the pattern to the other , but by the universal conformity ▪ to say , it is a pattern when they agree in one or two things and differ in . is all one as to say , a womans coat is the pattern of a mans double● , because they agree in having sleeves , or a temple is the pattern of a dwelling house , because they have both doors and windows . the dr. therefore doth in my apprehension pull down what he hath all this while been erecting , by his acknowledging both the jews bringing in many things of their own devising otherwise then christ appointed , and christs changing their oecomy in many things , and making the accordance no further then christ was pleased it should hold , and of that we are to judge by what the scriptures or ancient church tels us , was the practise of him or his apostles . for . then it will follow , that infant baptism c●n never be proved to be from christ or the apostles , sith it can never be proved that they practised it or appointed it to be practised according to the jewish custome . . the dr. hath meerly abused h●s reader , endeavouring to possess him , as if infant baptism might be better p●oved ●rom the jewish ●ustome in their writ●rs , then from the scripture ; and yet in the conclusion , the jewish custome is disclaimed as a pattern , any farther then the scriptures or ancient church tell us was the practise of him or his apostles , and by pretending that to be p●t●ern , which is not to be followed any farther then we may judge by another directory christ was pleased it should hold . i let pass what the dr. saith , of christs commissionating his disciples to baptize , and they leaving it in the hands of the bishop , and those to whom he should commit it , as not pertinent to the present business , though otherwise many things might ●hence be gathered , to shew that bishops were not such in late dayes as they were anciently , or they were very negligent in committing this great business of baptism to so many ignorant drunken priests ( who often did it in their drink ) which should have been done by themselves , and consider what followes . but yet , saith the dr. it is evident that some of them are not such ; as when he saith , the baptism of males must be with circumcision and an offering , it is clear that , though . circumcision be laid aside by christ , and . when it was used it had nothing to do with baptism , yet as to the adjoyning of offering or sacrifice , the parallel still holds , the prayers of the church being the christian sacrifice , and those in the christian church solemnly attendant on the administration of baptism . answ. . if circumcision when it was used had nothing to do with baptism , how could the dr. ( as he doth here ch . . sect . . ) take on him from circumcision to prove ( no● the duety , yet ) the lawfulness of infan● baptism . . the sacrifice which was required at the initiating a proselyte , was a burnt offering of a beast , or two turtle doves , or two young pigeons , both of them for a burnt offering ; so maimonides tit . isuri ●i● . c. . as ainsworth annot . on gen. . . selden de syned . l. . c. . ●ite him , but that is not prayer , nor is it any more agreeable to the jewish custome to use prayer without it , then to use circumcision of the heart , col. . . without the outward , or the answer of a good conscience towards god without baptism with water ; and yet the rubrick of the common prayer book in private baptism allowed ( if time did not suffer ) it to be done without so much as saying the lords prayer . the dr. adds . so parallel to the court of three israelites , by the confession or profession of whom ( saith maimonides ) the infant was baptized , we have now not onely the whole church , in the presence of whom ●tis publikely administred , and when more privately , yet in the presence of some christians , who are afterwards , if there be any doubt , to testifie their knowledge to the church ; but more particularly the godfathers and godmothers , being themsel●es formerly baptized , do represent the church , and the minister commissionated thereto by the bishop , represents the church also , meaning the governors thereof . answ. though baptism by women and others not commissionated by a bishop have heretofore been tollerated , and been taken for currant baptism , and the terming the governours of the church the church , be language not like the scripture , but the canon law , and the use of gossips be a vain device , and the minister commissionated by the bishop , with the gossips sometimes so ignorant of the knowledge of christ , that they are not fit to bee among christians , nor to be taken to represent a church of christ , nor do they stand under that notion at the usual baby sprinkling , but as sureties or proxies to the child ; and in private baptism there 's none of these sometimes , yet were all the dr. saith yeilded , this is not according to the jewish custome , which required a kinde of court of three israelites skilfull in law to approve it , or else it is vo●d , and so as judges of the baptism , of which sort the other are not . the dr. adds ; but i shall not proceed to such superfluous considerations , and so i have no need of adding one word more of reply to his . chapter ( as far as i am concerned in it ) unless it bee to tell him that the bishop● canons are not the rule by which i undertake to define , wherein the jewish custome must be the pattern , wherein not ; ( but as he cannot but know , if he had read the resolution of the th . quaere ) the practise of the apostles of christ , by the testifications of the fathers of the church made known unto us , to which as i have reason to yeild all authority , so i finde the canons and rituals as of this , so of all other churches in the world ( no one excepted ) to b●ar perfect accordanc● therewith , in this particular of infant baptism ( though in other lesser particulars they differ , many among themselvs , and all from the jewish pattern . ) and this i hope is a competent ground of my action , and such as may justifi● it to any christian artist to bee according to rules of right reason , of meekness , and sound doctrine , and no work of passion , or prejudice , or singularity , or ( as mr. t. suggests ) of the drs. own pleasure , as if that were the mutable principle of all these variations from the jewish pattern . answ. . to call cyprian , augustine , &c. fathers of the church , which is elsewhere stiled their mother , is scarce consistent . . to yeeld all authority to the practise of the apostles of christ , by the testifications of the fathers of the church made known to us there is no reason ; this is due onely to the holy scripture : they testifie sundry things as the apostle practise , which was not so , they speak sometimes in these things confidently upon false reports , this would be an inlet to many superstitions , the canons of councils , and rituals of churches are so full of weakness and blemishes , as that they would be counted most useless writings ●o direct in faith or worship , did not their age make some men dote on them ▪ t●at all churches accord in infant baptism cannot be true . the common prayer book is not justifiable in the allowing that which is termed privat baptism , in the use of sureties their mimical or fals answers , saying they desire to be baptized , when it is not so . the drs. exposition letter of resol . q § . . i believe , i. e. this child stands bound by by th●se presents to believe , &c. is so ridiculous ( and augustines tom . . ep. ad ●oni●acium is like it ) as that did not prejudice , o● preingagem●nt , or some other like reason prevail with dr. h. he would never defend it . that which the dr. makes a competent ground of his action , doth not justifie his tenet of infant baptism to be according to rules of reason and sound doctrine , whether he vary or not in his determinations from that which hee makes the pa●tern as hee pleaseth , or the bishops canons order , let the reader ju●ge by what is said , and that which followes . of this score , saith he , 't is somewhat strange , which he thinks fit to add concerning the form of baptism , in the name of the father , and the ●on , and the holy ghost ; in ●his one thing , saith he , which christ did no● prescribe , nor did the apostles , that we finde so conceive it , yet saith the dr. christs prescription must be indispensably used . in reply to this i shall not s●end much time to evidence this form to bee christs prescription , if the express words a● his parting from the world , matth. . ●o ye the●●fore , and ●ach or receive ●o disciplesh●p , all na●●ons , baptizing them in the n●me of the father , and the son , and the holy ●host , be not a prescription o● christs , and if the universal doctrine and continual practise of the whole church through all times , be not testim●ny sufficient of the apostles conceiving it 〈◊〉 , and a competent ground of the indispensable continuing the use of it ; i shall not hope to perswade with him , onely i shall minde him of the words of s. athanasius in his epistle to s●rapion tom . p. . he that is no● baptized into the name of all three , receives nothing , remains empty and imperfect . for perfection is in the trinity , no baptism per●●● i● seems but that ▪ and if ●his will not yet suffice , i shall then onely demand whether he can prod●ce ●o express grounds from christ or the apostles , or the univ●rsal church of god through all ag●● , or from any one ancient father for his denying baptism to infan●s . answ what grounds we can produce ●rom christ , and apostles for denying infant bapt●sm , may be se●n in 〈◊〉 part of this review sect . , &c. what from fathers in this , and some oth●r of my writings ▪ that which christ prescribed is indispensably to be used , to baptize in●● the name of the father , son and holy , but all the question is about these words [ i baptize thee in the name of the father , son and holy ghost ] whether christ have prescribed them to be indispensably used ; so as tha● if any say , i baptize thee in the name of christ , or the lord jesus , or be thou baptized , or a● the greeks use it [ let this servant of christ bee baptized ] into the name of father , son and spirit , or , this p●rson is baptized by ●e into the profession and owning of the father of christ the onely true god , and jesus christ whom he hath sent , and the comforter whom he sent as his lord and master , this be not agreeable to c●rists prescription . i conceive it is , and that neither did christ prescribe those very words the dr. se●s down , but the thing ( of which grotius ●nn●t . in matth. ● . . may be seen , where the dr. may see , that to be baptized into the name , is not all one with bap●izing with the express naming of each o● these , but another thing , and how the ancients varied in their expressions , and how iren●us lib. c. . saith . in nomine christi subauditur qui unxi● , & ipse qui unctus est , & ipsa unctio in q●a ●nctu● e●● . ) nor the apostles when they prescribed baptism into the name of christ , without mentioning the other persons , acts . . & . . & . . lu●●bard l. . sent . dist . . ●ui baptizat in nomine christi baptiz●t in nomine ●rin●tatis , quae ibi intelligitur ; and this ambrose before spake , i● lib. . de s●ir sanct . c. . ●iscat . schol . in matth. . ▪ but it is not to be thought that in these words , christ commands misters o● pastors of the church , that in baptizing they should pronounce these words , baptize thee into the name of the father , &c. father●c ●c . which may be done although those word● be not ●ronounced in baptizing and therefore tha● which i ●aid , needed not bee somewhat st●●nge in the dr. and for the words of the drs. practic●l catech . l . § . . the words do shew what i said the dr. confessed , to have been no mis●●eporting of his words ; who did not say , he affirmed the putting under water ( used by the primitive church to be appointed by christ , exclusi●ely to sprinkling , but t●at by christs appointment the baptized was to be d●pt in wa●e● ▪ i.e. according to the primitive ancient custome to bee put under wa●er , and said expresly be allowed of sprinkling , and yet varied from the j●wish pattern which requir●d immersion ; and from christs appointment ( which though he propounded d●s●junctively , yet i knew it could ●ot ●e so understood ) and from the primitive custome , and yet in another thing n●t so prescribed , will have it to be indispensably used , which shews his variableness . sect . xcvii . matth. . . infants are excluded from being subjects of baptism , notwithstanding dr. hammonds pretensions . to what dr. h. defence of infants baptism ch . . sect . . saith , i reply . . that his writing for the common prayer book , is evidence of ascribing more then was meet to the canons of prelates , sith th● common prayer book stood as well by the prelates canons , as the act of parliament , and those that are for the one are for the most part for the other . . it appears to me that he hath offended much against the sacrament of baptism , in his defence of infant baptism , the use of sureties , sprinkling in stead of baptism according to the common prayer book , all which are mentioned before . . this to me is a signe that the dr. ascribes too much to the canon which enjoyned subscription and conformity to the common prayer book , in that he hath opposed , as much i think as any man of his rank , the reformation of these and such other faults as were in it . . if there were a catechesis in the term allegation , then my use of it proves not my signification that the dr. did produce matth. . . as a proof of his pos●tion : yet when i consider how the dr. letter of resol . q. . sect . , . doth make the jewish baptism the pattern whence the christian is copied out , and saith ; christian baptism hath nothing in the copy to exclude christians children , which copy is set down in the n. t. i e. in the words of institution , and these words § . . are no other then those matth. . . which he endeavours to prove not onely not to exclude , but also to include christians children , as he speaks § . . christs baptism being founded in the jews custome of baptizing of proselytes , and the custome among them being known to be this , to baptize the proselytes and their children , the indefinite command of baptizing all nations , was all that was needfull to comprehend the children also of those that received the faith of christ. i do still conceive he did allege matth. . . as a proof of his position , though not by it self ▪ yet with his imagined pattern of the jewish custome , and that though he would not openly , yet by his contending so much for the equivalency of disciple and proselyte , and the extent of the term proselyte , and his acknowledgement of these words to be the copy in the n.t. he did tacitely yeeld , that if those words matth. . . include not infants under the discipled ▪ then there is something in the n. t. which excludes infants from baptism nor is he at all relieved by what he saith that whatever were the notion of discipling there , yet ●ee could not deem infants thereby excluded from baptism , whom by another medium , viz. ▪ the apostolical practice hee supposed to be admitted to it by christs institution ; for that very medium is to prove it to have been christs institution , and matth. . . comprehends the words of institution , and is the copy of the original , and therefore it 's tacitely implied , that if infants be no● proved to bee included matth. . . there is something against infant baptism in the n. t. nor is it true that in that which is not included , is not presently excluded , for in all such institutions or appointments , what is not included i● presently exclu●ed . our lord argues matth. . , . two shall bee one flesh , therefore more then two are excluded ; the apostle cor. . . thus ch●ist appointed the lords supper , therefore no otherwise , wine is appointed therefore water is excluded , eating is prescribed therefore reservation is excluded , let the self-examiner eat , therefore infants excluded ; the dr. himself , baptizing in the name of the father , son and holy ghost , prescribed mat. ● . . therefore that from indispensably to be used if the dr. would look on such a despicable piece , he might see this further proved in that book a part whereof hee answers , review part . . sect . . ●f not he may finde enough in jewels sermon at pauls cross . and in all sorts of protestant writers , which by reducing things to the primitive institution , exclude other things added by men as abuses . but the dr. tels me , he that saith man is a living creature , doth not thereby deny ●n angel to be so also ; true , but this is impertinent , ●●th this is a proposition not a command ; and as impertinent is the other , when christ gives his d●sciples po●er to heal diseases , matth. . . he cannot be deemed to with hold from them power of raising the dead , for that we see comprehended in their commi●sion v. . for th●s is not an instan●e of an institution of what they should do , but a relation of what christ gave them . to my arguing from passages of the doctors letter of resol . q. . § . , , . pract . c●t l. . § . . that infants are not baptized according to chri●ts institution , and baptism no sacrament to them , he tels me ; . that christs institution of baptism was not ( nor is ever affirmed by 〈◊〉 to be ) set down in those words of matth. . that having been long before instituted and practised , as appears by plain words , job . . , . whereto i answer ; . the first is not true , for in his letter of resol q. . § . he mentions , the copy of baptism set down in the n. t. i. e. in the words of institution , which § . . shews are those matth. . . and § . having as he thinks avoided the exclusion of infants , from the command matth. . ● . he saith ▪ nothing is discernable in christs institution of baptism , which can exclude infant children of christian● from it , and again he terms them , that institution of baptism for all nations . . his reason i● as frivolous . for though it were instituted before , yet it was set down matth. . . as the institution of the lords supper was before the epistle to the corinthians , yet is set down cor. . . secondly , saith hee , that though christs will and institution fo● baptizing infants be not so manifestly exprest in those words , matth. ● . . as shall be able by the bare force of the words to convince any gain-sayer , without any other way of evidence or proof added to it , yet by the apostles practise of baptizing infants ( appearing to us by other means ) it is most evident that they who certainly did not mistake christs meaning ; did thus understand and extend his institution and commission . the truth of this is there made more evident § . , &c. i shall not here repeat it . answ. . it is to be observed , that here the dr. makes christs will , institution , and commission , to be exprest in those words matth. . . and yet in the next words before he said , christs institution of baptism was not ( nor is ever affirmed by him to be ) set down in those words matth. . . quo teneam nodo ? . that he acknowledgeth christs will and institution for baptizing infants , is not so manifestly exprest in those words matth. . . as shall be able by the bare force of the words to convince any gain-sayer . now sure i● not there , no where . as for his other proof from other places , it is so fully proved here to be vain , that if the dr. do not , others will see it to be so . yet he adds ▪ secondly that the infant when he is to bee ba●tized , doth though not by his own voice personally , yet by his lawfull proxies , which the church accepteth in his stead , profess the believing in three , the father , son , and holy ghost , deliver himself up to three , &c. answ. how comes any man ●o bee a childs proxy , who doth not make hi● so ? by w●at law becomes he a lawful proxy ? where did god allow him to become a proxy or su●ety for an infant ? how dares any take upon him to be a surety of the covenant , which i● christs office heb. . ? with what face can any christian say the child b●lievs , or desires ●o be baptized , when the child at that very instant , by its crying shews its unwillingness thereto ? how dares any undertake it shall believe , when it is not in his power to give fai●h , and so many do not believe , but oppose the faith , who are thus baptized ? what warrant hath any parent , or ( as mr. bax●er terms the gossips ) proparent , to profess the faith of christ in behalf of an infant , and to desire christian baptism for it ? what is the church the doctour means , that accepts a proxies profession in st●ad of the childe ? who gave them or that person the name of the church ? what commission , whence have the church power to exchange and commute ones profession for anothers ? who gave the minister authority to alter christs institution , and to accept of that which christ never appointed in stead of that which christ appointed ? it is undoubtedly a most high presumption , derogatory to christs peculiar office ▪ forbidden matth. ● . . for any minister , or bishop , or council , or congregation , who are all to be subject to christ , and to follow his prescriptions , to take on them in stead of the persons own profession before baptism to accept of another● , as ● proxy , parent , or proparent his confession , instead of the baptized per●ons profession ? th●ugh i marvail not that dr. hammond a man prelatical , who too much favours corruptions in fathers , counci●s , and prelates , disguising them under the name of the church , which is a pre●ence for many supersti●ions , should thus determine : yet i wonder how mr. baxter and those who have opposed the use of the cross in baptism , and other abuses of papists and prelates , should having proved in his d . disputation of right to sacraments , that none but professors of saving faith and repentance are to be baptized , yet without the least proof or shadow of proof , but a parents or proparents pro●ession instead of an infants , and without any institution or practise in the new testament , dar● to teach and accordingly to pra●●ise 〈…〉 and to require parents or others to profess the faith to that ●nd , and in their stead . just zeal to the glory of god and honour of christ , and his truth , makes me thus earnest ; no man can justly blame me in inveighing against , if not the hypocrisie of such men , yet certainly the iniquity of them who oppose humane inventions in one thing and no● in another , and the wickedness of them who either by consistorial sentences excommunica●e as heretiques , or by exciting magistrates against them persecu●e , or in preaching exclaim , or otherwise oppose those that will not yeeld to such corruptions , though obtruded under the name of the church . i had said , yea if the positive will of christ be the reason of baptism , they usurp upon christs prerogative , who baptize otherwise the●● christ hath appointed , and then if the precept of christ doth not nec●ssarily infer infant baptism ( which the dr. ingenuously acknowledgeth ) it doth by manifest consequence deny it , sith hee forbids that to be done otherwise then he hath appointed when he hath determined how it should be done . the dr. when hee saith above , the words [ i baptize into the name of the father ▪ son , and ghost ] must be indispensably used ; me think by the same reason should conceive christs institu●ion should bee ●nal●e●ably used in baptizing those onely whom he hath appointed to be baptized ; hereupon the dr. saith thus . to this the grounds of answer have been already laid also , viz. that they that baptize infants , baptize no otherwise then christ appointed , and the apostles appear to have understood his appointment . by christs appointment not meaning particularly his words matth. . but his will , otherwise made known to his disciples , when and in what words soever it was that he instituted baptism , which must be long before this , even before his apostles took on them to baptize any , which yet they did in great abundance , joh. . . and of this appointment or institution of baptism by christ it is most true , that if that precept of christ , whereby hee first instituted baptism , did not indeed compre●end , and so necessarily infer infant baptism , and was so understood to do by the apostles , it shal consequently be deemed to deny it . but then herein lies a great fallacy , when from another appointment of christ , viz. that matth. . which i acknowledge not to infer infant baptism necessarily , he assumes in universum , and reports it as my confession , that christs precept ( indefinitely taken , and so extending to all christs precepts at any time ) doth not necessarily infer infant baptism . which is that grand illogical fault in disc●urse of inferring an indefinite or universal conclusion from particular premises . as for the comparison which he makes betwixt the indispensable use of the words of baptism matth. . and the as unalterable observation of christs institution in respect of the persons to be baptized , i willingly grant it , on the condition premised , that he mistake not the text matth . to be the words of that institution , whe●●in christ defined who are to be baptized . those words are a commission to the apostles to go preach to or disciple all nations , and thus far extends to point out the persons ▪ viz. that they should ( as disciple so ) baptize gentiles as w●ll as jews ; and again , they are express for the form of baptism , that it should be in the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , but they are not any kinde of direction to that other matter of receiving and admitting infants or not infants . that i suppose sufficiently notified to them before , both by the common practise of their ancestors in the jewish religion by the vulgar notion of baptism , whilest it was familiarly used among the jewes , both to their own and their proselytes children , and also by christs special direction ( though the gospels , which express not at all the words of the first institution of baptism do no● set that down ) in the time of his preaching among them , some while before that passage of story related , ●oh . . , &c. from both of these , i suppose the apostles learnt i● ( and not from matth. . ) and we learn it onely from the apostles , as shall hereafter appear . answ. that the apostles learnt infant baptism from christ , or dr. hammond from the apostles , hath not been made appear as yet . what he hath produced from tertullian and the greek fathers , from cor. . . and from the jewish custome , hath been already examined and shewed to b● insufficient to that end . his grants are , that if christ did not institute at first infants baptism , nor the apostles so understood it , it should consequently be deemed to deny it ; and if he did otherwise appoint it , then infants are excluded ; and what is matth. . . prescribed , is indispensably to be used ; but he supposeth a fore●going insti●ution comprehending infant baptism , notified otherwise then by mat. . . that matth. . . determines neither pro nor con : for no● against infants baptism , that i infer illogically , because not in matth. . . instituted , therefore no where else . and i do acknowledge i d● so conceive , that the dr. having made that the copy , and confessing infant bap●ism not to be necessarily inferred thence , and that wee must do no otherwise then christ appoints he must tacitely deny infant baptism ▪ and this inference of mine is logical . what the dr. saith to the contrary do●h not avoid it . for . it is not true that matth. . . the words are not any kinde of direction to this matter of receiving and admitting infants or not infants . for . it expresseth who are to bee baptized , when it saith , baptising them , now [ them ] must refer either to [ all nations ] without any other circumscription , and then he must appoint them to baptize every man in the world , believer or not . but that is ab●urd , ergo. or [ them ] must refer to [ disciples ] included in the verb [ disciple or make disciples ] but if so , no● onely the genti●es as well as jewes are pointed out , but also the qualification of them , whom they should baptize , they are to be disc●ples , now infants are disciples and not disciples , there 's no middle term between contradictory terms , therefore there must be some direction to baptize infants or not infants . . these words are the copy of the pattern as the dr. saith ubi suprà , therefore if these words have no direction for infant baptism , the pattern had not ; for the copy and pattern do agree with each other , as the decree and the copy of it out of the court. . it is not true that this is not the first institution wee are to have directions from in our practise , who baptize gentiles . for there is no institution concerning baptizing the gentiles before that matth ▪ . . and therefore hence must be direction for baptizing or not our infants , there being no institution precedent as concerning them . nor did the apostles follow any other , as is proved in the d . part of this review sect . . . it is false , th●t the former institution did comprehend infant baptism . the con●ra●y is proved , . from the place which sets down 〈◊〉 practise , joh ▪ . . it is there said , they made disciples and baptised ▪ whence i argue . those onely whom the apostles baptized , christ appointed to be baptized ; but they baptiz●d not in 〈◊〉 , ergo christ did not then appoint th●m to baptize them . the major is out of doubt their practise onely shewing christs institution . ●he minor is proved , . they baptize● none but whom they made disciples , but they made no infants disciples , as will be proved in t●at which follows , and may bee further thus proved . such persons were made disciples by christ and his disciple● , as were mad● disciples by john , but he made no infants d●sciples , as mi●ht be p●oved by the descriptions and acts of johns disciples in the gospels , matth. . . & . . & . . luk. . ● . joh. . , ● ▪ &c. the disciples baptized in the same manner and s●rt ●s joh● did his disciples , bu● john baptized penitent persons who were not infants , matth. . all the ●eople who were baptised by him , are said to hear him and to justifie god , ●uk . . . but these were not infants , ergo. . dr ha●mond saith le●●er of resol q. . § . ● . to make disciples , joh. . . and baptise , is all one wi●h disciple baptising , matth. ● . . but in this according to the dr. there is not any kinde of direction to that matter of receiving and admitting infants or not infants , therefore joh. . , is no mention of their baptizing infants , and so no infan●s baptized by them . . if christ had instituted infant baptism , doubtless hee would have ap●ointed it , and the disciples practised it on those mentioned matth. . , , . mark . ● , , . luk ▪ ● . , , . but he did not appoint nor they practise baptism on t●em , for it is said matth. . . that when he had put his hands on them he d●parted thence , which shews no more was done to ●hem then was before set down , whereof none was their baptizing , ergo . it is false , that direction to baptise infants was sufficiently notified to the apostles by christ. for . the common practise of the jews could not notifie it to them , c●rist ●o where appointing them to baptize according to the jewish manner , nor did they , for they baptized r●ther a●ter johns mann●● , joh. . . but that was not as the 〈◊〉 as appeares by their excepting against and rejecting his baptism luk● . . the vulgar notion ●f baptism did not no●ifie it . 〈…〉 notion of baptism did not express one sort or other , yea ●hey used to baptize other things mark ▪ , . besides persons . . if the vul●ar notion of baptism did notifie infant baptism , then it did notifie i● ma●th . ▪ . where it is expressed . but the dr. saith , those words are not any kinde of dire●●ion to that matter of receiving and admitting infants or no● infants , ergo. . the special direction of christ did not notifie i● , if i● di● ▪ let it be shewed ▪ to say , the gospels express not at all the words of the first institution of ●aptism , nor do set that down , is against the dr. for it is an high presumption in any man to assert such a special direction of christ , as neither the gospels nor other sacred writings set down , and if this may bee done , apocriphal traditions may bee vented , as papists and others have done , telling us all that christ did and said is not written , john . . besides , christ gave no other special direction to the apostles towards the jewes about baptism , afore that was done which wee read john . . then hee did to them towards the gentiles , matth. . . for that was a copy of the pattern . but he did not there appoint infant baptism as the dr. acknowledgeth , ergo. from all which i infer , that christ gave no other direction about baptism , then what is expressed matth. . . and that there hee gave directions about in●ants bap●izing or not baptizing , and that the presrciption there is to bee indispensably used , not onely about the form of words in baptism , but also about the persons wh●m we may baptize ; and that infants are excluded shall bee proved in that which followes . nor is this a pralusory 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the dr. termes it , but such a just dissertation as toucheth the main of the cause , and shewes the doctors usurpation on christs prerogative , in defending such baptism as is otherwise then christ appointed , nor hath he brought one proof for what he saith , hee hath made evident that matth. . ● . was not the institution of baptism ▪ nor any intimation on either side whether infants should he baptized or not , but contradicted himself , and manifestly perverted the scripture . sect. . the dr. saith to my exception [ that though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is well rendred make disciples , yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not well paraph●ased by receive into discipleship all nations baptizing them , for by this the making disciples is made the same with receiving into discipleship or receiving disciples , and baptism the ceremony of receiving into discipleship , which is as truly the act of the baptized , thereby professing or avouching his discipleship ] thus . here is another subtilty of a refined nature , making a difference betwixt making disciples , and receiving into discipleship or receiving discip●es : as if these two were not perfectly synonymous , and by me evidently used , as such . i shall not dispute of words , when the matter is clear , and when it is equally to my purpose which phrase is used , whether making or receiving disciples . answ. either phrase would not have been equally to the doctors purpose , making disciples not being applicable to infants , a● perhaps it may be thought receiving disciples may , but whether either serve the doctors turn or no , and however the dr. use them , or censure my di●●inction of them , yet i take his confounding them to bee a gross mistake , and such as perverts the text , and should have been proved by him , afore he thus used it , and against it i thus argue . . those termes are not perfe●●ly synonymous , whereof the one imports that which may bee without the other , this i think none will deny ▪ but making disciples may bee without receiving them . this is manifest . for a person is not a disciple afore he is made , but he is made a disciple before he is received , therefore the one may bee without the other . . the agents may be divers in making and receiving disciples , a woman may make a disciple , but not receive him . . the meanes is different , the making disciples is by teaching , as shall bee shewed in that which followes , and is an act of diligence ; the receiving i● admission by authority . . making imports an action , receiving rather a passion . . making disciples doth presuppose a privation of it , y●a perhap● averseness from it ; receiving presupposeth a habit attained , and a willing offer . . the making disciples may be to another , but receiving disciples is to bee ascribed to the master to whom they a●e d●sciples , as to himself receiving them . . dr. hammond acknowledgeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to import the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 j●hn . . letter of resol . q. . § . . but john . . it cannot bee rendered receive disciple● , therefore nei●her matth . . nei●her matth. . nor any where else hath any transl●tor i knew , rendered [ receive disciples ] but many , make disciples , and make it as the dr. the phrase parallel to john . . and therefore it is singular and absurd to render it here receive disciples . secondly , sait● he , when hee affirms of baptism which i make the ceremony of the apostles receiving them , that 't is as true●y the 〈◊〉 of the bap●ized , this is no sub●ilty , but gross and visible enough . for certainly baptism in the active sense ( as it is plain i understand it in that place where i paraphrase go and make disciples and baptize ) is not the act of the baptized but of the baptist , the comming to baptism indeed and the undertaking the vow , and making the profession , is the act of the baptized , either personally or by his proxy , which in reputation of law and in acceptation of the church , i● his also , but still baptism , or ( to remove all p●●sible mistake ) baptizing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . is an act of the baptizer onely , and so the ceremony of receiving into discipleship , whomsoever they thus duely baptize . i hope i need say no more of this . answ. i said not baptizing , but baptism the ceremony ( not ●s the dr. mis●recites my words , o● receivers into discipleship , but ) of receiving into discipleship is as truely the a●● of the baptized , thereby p●ofessing or avouching h●s discipleship as of the baptizer , and therefore the baptized is not meerly passive in it , nor an infant doth unde●go it . and i prove it thus . . baptism is a duty of the baptiz●d as well as of the baptizer , as may bee proved from acts . . where the apostle exhorts them to repent and bee baptized every one of them , in the name of christ jesus for the remission of sins ; now that which a man is exhorted to as his duty , is his own act . ergo. i● any say it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the passive voice , hee may understand that luk. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it bee the same sense and voice , yet notes the action of the baptized . . it is manifest also from the command to paul , acts. . . that baptism is the act of the baptized for first , it is a thing commanded to bee done by him . . it is in the middle voice , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which though i deny not to have a passive signification , yet here , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cannot have any other then active signification because of the accusative cause following , so neither can the other , both being injoyned as duties , and the washing away sins being not meant of forgiveness of them but turning from them ; baptism being the signe of his repentance , and both being to be joyned together , acts . . and therefore baptism being called , mark● . . acts . . . bapti●ing into the name of the father , son and holy ghost , notes the a●● of t●e baptized as well as the baptizer , and thi● is fully taught by dr. hammond himself practic . cat . lib. . sect . . where he saith ● ● baptize thee into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ● being pr●scribed by christ to his disciples must indispensably be used ▪ and the meaning of them is double . . on the ministers part , that what he doth hee doth no● of himsel● , but in the name or power of , or by commission from the blessed trinity ( which by the way , i am sure none can 〈…〉 ●pparent 〈…〉 when they baptize infants , much less when ●hey onely sprinkle them . ) . and more especially in respect of the pe●son baptized . . that he acknowledges these three , a●d by desiring baptism makes profession of that acknowledgment , which is in effect the sum of the whole ●reed . . that as he acknowledges these three , so he delivers himself to them , as to the three principles or authors of faith or christian religion , and acknowledges no other as such ( as to be baptised in the name of paul signifie● to say , i am of paul , i. e. to●●●has ●●●has and all other ) to receive for infallible truth whatsoever is taught by any of these and no●hing else . . that he delivers himself up to be ruled as an obedient servant by the directions of this great master , a willing disciple of this blessed trinity , and so the greek phrase ● into the name ] doth import ; and these th●ee acts of the baptised together , make up his part by way of condition required of him to make him ca●able of that grace , which the minister from god thus conveys upon and ensures unto him . besides which it notes the calling on the name of the father by the son , through the h●ly spirit , as acts . ● . shews , where paul is bid to be baptized or baptize himself , calling on the name of the lord , when baptized ; and this i have proved to be meant 〈◊〉 luk. . . and other 〈◊〉 review part . . sect . . p. ● ▪ ● , ● . so that baptism 〈◊〉 as well ( or rather more ) the ce●emony of th● baptized , 〈◊〉 ●● the baptizer ▪ which might be proved from tho●e texts which speak 〈◊〉 the use of it , as rom. . , . col. . ● . gal. ▪ . cor. . ● . in all which and sundry more the act of the ba●t●zed is noted , who d●th thereby signifie his baptism into ●hrists death , being 〈◊〉 by ba●tism into death , and his rising to newness of life , putting on christ , ●oyning into one body , &c. which i have cleered more fully in the same p●ace pag , , ● . and this , the dr saith 〈…〉 , i● more especially meant by ba●tising into the name of the father , son and holy spirit ▪ 〈…〉 their act as w●ll as the administrators ▪ . i● baptism were not as truely the act of the baptized as the baptizer t●en it should be t●u● baptism , if the baptizer did d●p with●ut an concu●●● 〈◊〉 of the bap●ized , yea ●hough he we●e forced to it , and against his will put unde● water , and this were warrantably done by the baptizer , for he should do what ●s prescribed , but this is absurd , neither school men nor any other allow such baptism , vide th. aquin. sum . part . . qu. . art . , . the spaniards driving the indians into the water forcibly for baptism , and their going in thus under water is excepted against as neither rightly done , nor true baptism . therefore certainly baptizing prescribed mat. . . doth comprehend not onely the act of the administratour , but also the act of the baptized , in yeilding to it and concurring with it . when peter acts . . commanded cornelius and those with him to be baptised in the name of the lord , there were three acts concurrent . . the apostles command , by way of authority appointing it to be done . . o● the administratour by way of ministry . . of the baptized by way of submission and putting himself under water . yet hee is no● thereby a meer sebaptist ▪ as i● is reported some heretofore have been , but is partly passive in consent , and s●bmission to what the baptizer doth , and partly a●tive in concurring with him . so that my speech is cleered from being gross , as ●● dr. would . dr. h. adds . his second branch of exception is to those words of mine , wherein i say tha● the making or receiving disciples , supposeth not any precedent instru●tion , but looks wholly on it as subsequent . against this i gave reasons of dissent thus . . that which is exprest in matthew by , go ye therefore and make disciples all nations , is in mark , go ye into all the world and preach the gospel ●o every living creature ; which s●ews , how they should disciple all nations ; now they who are made disciples by preaching the gospel , are made disciples by precedent instruction , ergo , the making or receiving disciples matth. . . supposeth precedent instruction . but to this ( saith the dr. ) i answer ; . that the words in mark are no otherwise parallel to those in matthew , then as an epitome is parallel to a la●ger discourse , such we know s. marks for the most part is , an abbreviation of s. matthews gospel , as in many others , so in this particular ; some passages indeed there are in s. mark in this place , which are not i● s. matthew , as shall anon be shewed , but in the particular now before us , s. mark is according to wont more concise : there is no mention in him of baptizing in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , nor consequently of discipling , of which that was the ceremony , as in s. matthew there is . answ this doth rather confirm my major then oppose it . for if mark express the same more briefly and matthew more largely in this particular , and there is no other expression in mark besides , go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature , which answe●s to matthews words , go make disciples all nations ▪ then what is exprest in matthew is the same with that which is exprest in mark. and indeed the time , occasion , and expressions 〈◊〉 so plainly evince this , that almost all editions and translations ( which use marginal references ) and commentators i have seen , expound the one by the other . secondly , saith the dr. that christs appointment 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to preach the gospel , 〈◊〉 mark , doth no way infer ●he precedent instruction of every single person that was received to baptism : the phrase signifies to proclaim or promulgate the happy tydings brought into the world by christ , grace , and mercy , and eternal felicity to all that should come into him , and take his yoke upon them , and learn of him . and upon the publishing of this to all the world to every creature , i e. to the gentiles universally , as well as the jews , i suppose 't is very possible , that many of them should make all speed to come unto christ , and come out at the apostles preaching , they and their whole housholds together ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as the oracle commanded in homer ) and to bring their infant children , as they used to do , that became proselytes to the jews , and then the apostles knowing their masters minde for receiving of infants , and that ( as from the institution i suppose them fore instructed ) to baptism , receive them all , and ( as many as interposed no voluntary hinderance ) baptize them ; and having taken them into the school of christ , make good provision for the future instruction of them , as soon as ever they should be capable of it . that thus it was , i pretend not ( still ) to deduce from these words matth. . but to infer from ano●her medium , the practise of the apostles otherwise notified to us : all that i am now to manifest is , that this passage hath nothing contrary to our hypothesis , but is perfectly reconcileable with i● , and this is done by the scheme thus laid : and so 't is most visible how no force there is in this first reason of exception . answ. it is most visible that the dr. was in a dream when he wrote this ; . because he talks of an institution ( which is onely i●agined by him ) of receiving infants , and as many as interposed no voluntary hinderance to baptize them ( not excepting infidel● children , contrary to his own interpretation of cor. . . which declares them unclean , that is , not to be baptiz●d in the drs. sense ) and to take infants into the school of christ , as if the school of christ were to nurse up infants , for that was all could be done to them , and to make good pro●ision for the future instruction of them , as soon as ever they should be capable of it . which is so ridiculous a conceit , as no waking man me thinks should fancy it . for what provision could the apost●es , who were to go and preach the gospel to every creature , make for the future instruction of them , as soon as ever they should be capable of it , who were not to stay till they were able to speak , or receive any commands from them ? . the dr. as if he forgot his matter in hand , saith ; all that he was then to manifest , was that this passage matth. . . hath nothing contrary to his hypothesi , but is perf●●●ly reconcileable to it ; whereas his business was to answer my argument against his position , that the making or receiving disciples matth. . supposeth not any precedent instruction , but looks wholly on it a● subsequentpunc ; . the drs. answer , that christs appointment to ●reach the gospel in s. mark , doth no way infer the p●ecedent instruction of every single person that was received to baptism , might be true , yet his position false , that the making disciples matth. . . supposeth not any precedent instruction , but loo●s wholly on it as subsequent . . his reason why to preach the gospel in s. mark , doth no way infer the precedent instruction of every single person that was received to baptism , shews his talk to have been incoherent , like the talk of a man in a dream ; for what consequence is in this , the phrase signifies , &c. ergo , to preach the gospel in s. mark , doth no way infer the precedent instruction of every single person that was received to baptism ? might not all this be true , that the phrase so signifies , they so publish , the thing set down be possible , the apostles know christs minde , as the dr. imagines , and ye● to preach the gospel in s. mark , infer the precedent instruction of every single person that was received to baptism ? so that in all this whi●h the dr saith , there i● no answer to my argument . but the truth is , by the drs. own grants my argument is m●de good . for if preaching the gospel be instruction , and this be the way of making disciples , which are not deni●d ; then it must needs go before makin● or ●eceivi●g disciples , sith the m●anes in order of actual b●ing , must be before the effect , and so the drs. position fa●se : that the making or receiving disciples supposeth not a●y precedent instruction , matth. ● . . but lo●ks wholly on it as subsequent again , if afore baptiz●ng they were to publish the gospel to all the world , to every creature , i. e. to the gentiles univ●rsally as well the jews , then afore any single person was r●ceived to baptism , instruction wa● to be precedent , unless there were any single person which was not comprised under all the world , every creature , gentiles universally as well as jews : yea the terms [ every creature and all nations ] comprehend every person that was to be baptized , and more ; but they were every one to be made disciples , and that by preaching the gospel to them , afore they were to be bapt●zed ; matth. . . mark . . therefore instruction of every single person was to be precedent to his reception to baptis● . hereto agree the words of athanasius , hierom and others , cited by me , review part . . sest . . p. , . the d . saith the dr. followes , that such as the making disciples w●s , joh. . . such is the making disciples matth. . . for by the drs. confession they are all one . but that was by preaching , as is plain concerning john , matth. . , , , . and concerning the apostles , mat. . , , . ergo ▪ whence . i further a●gued , that way the apostles were to disciple all nations , by which they were to disciple the lost sheep of the house of israel , but that was by preaching , ergo , discipling supposeth precedent instruction . to this , saith the dr. i answer , that the account last given is fully satisfactory to this exc●p●ion also ; for supposing the apostles to publish wheresoever they came the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the good news that was come into the world by christ , and the hearers not onely to come in themsel●es , but to bring ●heir whole families , and so their infant children with them , there is no difficulty to imagine , that they had thus made proclamation , received all , and made all disciples , young and old , that either came or were brought , and so it being the instru●ent to draw the parents themselves , and to move them to bring their children to discipleship , it is still very visible how children should be discipled , and conse●uently baptized by them , baptism being the constant ceremony of discipling . and though i am not able to affirm how it was actually in johns baptism , yet this i may say , that as far as can be discerned or inferred from the phrase in either place ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) thus it very possibly might be both in johns and the apo●●les baptizing . answ. it is so far from being satisfactory , that there is neither pertinency nor truth in this answer . for the dr. answers , as if the thing i proved were not , that making disciples presupposeth instruction , because it is by preaching , but that i●fants might be made disciples , though making disciples b● by preaching ; which is indeed not to answer to the argument , but to a consectary deducible from the conclusion of it , which though it were not infer●ed nor consequent , yet the conclusion might be true that discipling presupposeth some precedent instruction , and is not wholly subsequent to it . nor is it true . for . supposing the apostles should do as he speaks , and the hearers come in as hee imagines , yet there is difficulty to imagine , tha● they that had thus made proclamation received all , and made all disciples , young and old , that either came or were bro●ght un●o them ; s●ecially considering how john received n●ne wee read of but such as confessed ●heir sins , and the whole people that were baptized of him justified god , luk . . believed him , matth. . . o●hers not , and the apostles are said to make disciples afore they baptized , jo● . . . and a●o●e they bap●ized required repentance , act. . . those who were baptized gladly received the word , v. . . it beeing granted that they made disciples by preaching , preaching being the instrum●nt to draw the parents themselves , and to move them to bring their children to discipleship , yet it is not very visible how children should bee discipled ; for 〈◊〉 ●ffection or conceit , might m●ve them to do that upon preaching ▪ which yet might not take effect , nor be received by the apostles . . nor is baptism consequent on such a discipleship , by offer or vow of p●rent● , wit●out profession of the party to be bap●ized , there being no institution for it , which is the onely rule about bap●izing . . neither i● it ●rue , that baptism is the constant ceremony o● discipling , though it be granted to be the ceremony of disciples , a person is first a disciple afore baptized , joh. . they first made disciples then baptized them . . it is n●t ●rue , that as far as can be discerned or inferred from the phrase in either place ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) it might not very possibly be both in johns and in the apostles baptizing as the dr. imagin● , sith ( if there be degrees of possibility ) it is not very possible they should make any oth●r disciples and baptize them , then such as the evangelists story relates they did . but the dr. tels us . . for john , 't is true indeed that his baptism attended his preaching , yet doth it not thence necessarily follow that none were baptised by him , but those who particularly heard and obeyed his preaching ; for . why might not those that heard it , divulge it to others , and bring them before they heard him to desire to bee baptised , and upon their confessing their sins , and professing amendment , hee baptise them ? answ. not likely before he had preached somewhat to them , however if his preaching were brought to them by others , they were not baptized afore instruction . . why might not those that heard it , or heard of it , give that heed to it , as to bring all that were dear to them of what age soever , by that means to secure them from the wrath to come ; when noah preacht repentance to the old world , and upon the decree of sending the flood upon the world of the ungodly , called all to come into the ark to him to escape the deluge , suppose others besides noahs family h●d hearkened to his preaching , or suppose hee and his sons had had infant children , can we imagine they would have lef● their inf●n●s to that certain ruine , and not have taken them into the ark with them ? and johns baptism was answerable to that ark , in respect of that approaching ruine on the jews , stiled the kingdome of heaven v . and that evidenced to be a bloudy kingdome , explicated by casting into the fire v. . and can we imagine the jews that believed john , and came to his baptism , did not bring th●se childr●n with them to save them from the predicted evils and then i profess not to see any reason to render it incredible that john baptist should thus receive and baptize those infants ( though the scripture affirmi●g nothing of it , and tradition , as far as i know , as little , i shall neith●r affirm nor believe any thing . ) this only is certain , that among the jews of that time , infant children were known to be capable of entring into covenant with god after this manner , and of being partakers of the benefit of the covenant by that means . and one thing more i may add , that christ himself , who was by his sinlesness , as un●ualified for the repentance which john preacht , as the infants were by their incapacities , did yet come and was received to johns baptism , v. . and then in case infants were brought , why might not they be received also ? answ. because it was not appointed to them . and this is a reason ( which the dr. may see if he will ) to render it incredible that john should receive and baptize infants , though infants of proselytes born afore their proselytism were by jews baptized , who baptized upon a far different reason , to wit , the pollution through idols , which did adhere to the gentiles nativity , to wash away that , and to engage them to the observance of moses law for righteousne●s ▪ whereas john baptist baptized with the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , even native jews , directing them to the lamb of god who was to take away the sin of the world , and that he might be known was to be baptized of him . we can therefore easily imagine , that the jews that believed ●ohn and came to his baptism , did not bring infant children with them to save them from predicted evils , because wee reade that they t●at were baptized of him confessed their sins , matth. . . . justified god , luk . . nor was baptism appointed to them as to proselytes infants , nor do wee reade that john baptist gave any inkling of his minde to have infants brought . and it i● a signe to me that the dr. is confident that hee can leade men in a string , who adventures to ●uggest such things as he confesseth the scripture affirms nothing of it , and tradition as little , as far as he knows , and neither affirms nor beleives any thing in it , and onely upon a supposition that infan● c●ildren would have been brought 〈◊〉 noahs ark if men had beleived noah , and johns baptism was as noahs ark stiled the kingdome of heaven , whereas johns and christs baptism are not made answerable to noahs ark in respect of the bare outward baptism , nor is it stiled the kingdome of heaven , but the answer or interrogation of a good conscience towards god by the resurrection of jesus christ , pet. . . and the preaching , beleiving of the gospel throughout the world , mar. . , . which they who were baptized were to entertain , and not infants , and therefore not to be baptized till they did . and wee may with better reason , then the dr. gives of his fancy , conceive gods providence rather ordered there should be no infants in noahs ark , that we might not fancy infants baptism thence , then that we should as this dr. or doatard supposeth . yet again , saith he , then . for as much as concerned the apostles , ma● . . f●rst 't is there evident that they were sent to the lost sheep indefinitely , and sure that phrase comprehends the lambs also , the infant children being lost in adam as well as the grown men , by the addition of their actual to original sin ? and then why should we doubt but the apostles mission extended to them also ? answ. because we reade of no such thing done or appointed to be done , nor do we know that baptism was appointed to bee a remedy of original sin , though some of the ancients talk so besides the scripture . the dr. adds . and . for their preaching , it is just as as johns was , to warn them to beware of the imminent destruction , that vindicative act of god , kingdome , v. . that all that sh●uld give ear and heed them , might hasten to get out of that danger by reformation and new life ; and the ruine being impendent to the young as well as old , even the whole nation , why should not the infant children be rescued from that by their parents care in bringing them to baptism , and timely ingaging them to flye from the wrath to come , as soon as they should come to understanding , injoying in the mean time the benefit of others charity ? answ. it was fit they should enjoy the benefit of others charity in their prayers , and supply of ●uch things as were meet for them , of which sort the apost●es baptism was not , nor did they understand it was christs minde that they were sen● to baptize them , for then they had baptized them , and not rebuked those that brought them to christ , matth. . . nor by bringing them to baptism were children rescued from the wrath to come , but by reformation and new life . thirdly , saith he , after their preaching though there be no mention of ba●tizing ( and so it was not fit to be produced to our present b●siness ) yet other things are appointed to be done , wherein infants were concerned as well as others , as healing of diseases , &c. and if being incapable of receiving benefit from preaching should be deemed an obstacle to their being baptized , why should it not to their receiving cures ? answ. because that they might be baptized , it was necessary they should be made disciples by preaching , not so that they might be cured of diseases . nay i may add , saith the dr. how should the dead in that place ( who sure were as uncapable of understanding as the tenderest infants ) be capable of being raised by those apostles , which yet is there affirmed of them , v. . answ. and i may add , that after this rate of reason , if mere capacity of outward baptism , and the charge of christ to the apostles to do acts of power on any thing , without making it a disciple by preaching to it ( as the dr. here fancieth of infants ) fit it for baptism , then the dead are to be baptized , which was practised of old , and the giving them the eucharist , as appears by the prohibition of it in the third synod of carthage canon . and balsamous note thereon . but the dr. it seems thought it ●t in this reply to me , to write what came next to hand , whether it were fit to be produced to the present business o● not , of which sort also is that which he talks in answer to my third reason , of preaching to the nations , and receiving all that come in to the discipleship , whether on their own legs , or in others arms , whole families at once , the parents , and upon their undertaking their infant children also , which perhaps the dr. might write early in the morning or late at night , between sleeping and waking , it is so like a dream . the dr. goes on thus , his fourth proof is taken from the use and notation of the word , which is so to teach as that they learn , and so , saith he , is used matth . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred [ instructed ] by our last translators , and can no otherwise be rendred then [ made a disciple by teaching ] so acts . . it is said , havi●g preached the gospel to that city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , having taught or made many disciples . for the notation of the word we have formerly said sufficient , that i● signifies to receive ad discipulatum , as into a school of spiritual in●truction , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to make a disciple , and such he is made , 〈◊〉 by any motive or means either comes or i● brought into the school , this indeed in order to teaching in the master , and to learning in the scholler , and the one so to teach , as that the other learn , but this sub●equ●nt to his being made a disciple , the youth wee know enters into the school , is admitted into the colledge and university , before ●e learns a word there , the instruction or learning is still lookt upon as futur● , at his entring into discipleship . answ. how vainly doth the dr. talk of his former sufficient saying , when he neither formerly nor now , give● one instance in the new testament or any other author ▪ wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as much to receive ad discipulatum , nor any translator or lexicographer that so renders it matth. . . or elsewhere ! 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to disciple , matth. . . is confest by the dr. to bee all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make disciples joh. ▪ . now sure the d● ▪ might we ll take his readers for dunses , if they could not distinguish between making disciples and receiving ad discipulatum , to be made disciples , entring into a school that they might learn , and being made a disciple , which alwayes notes learning of something an●eceden● . nor is any termed a disciple , at least not in the new testament ▪ till he ha●● learned some of his teachers doctrine ; none were the disciples of the pharisees , john baptist , the seducers , acts . , till they learned some of their teachers lessons , nor do i think in the jewish writers are any termed the disciples of their rabbins , or said to be discipled till they learned . the terming youths schollers at their first entring is nothi●g to the purpose , sith neither is a disciple and a scholler all one , the one being from learning , the other from vacation from other imployment that he may learn. nor is the use of words in our universities and schools , any rule whereby to expound the use of words in the n.t. but scrip●ure is to be expounded by the use in scripture , which the dr. in vain attempts to evade thus . and this is all ●he importa●ce of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . onely some accidental differences may bee observed , 't is in the passive and in the aorist in the prete●●ense , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every scribe which is or hath been entred as a disciple unto the kingdome of heaven , who since his entrance hath been instructed , and ( as real passiv●s import ) received influence , been really affected and changed by discipleship , st●ll no way supposing that he was instructed in the learning or mysteries of the king ●ome of heaven , before he was thus admitted a disciple to it ; after his admission , there is no doubt but he doth ( or ought to ) learn , nay being here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a scribe discipled , a grown man and learned among the jews , before he came to christ , i doubt not but some knowledge he had of it before he entred himself a disciple ( see bap●izing of in●ants p. . ) bu● this not by force of t●e word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for still a disciple he may be before he learns , and is therefore obliged to learn , because he hath assumed and undertaken to do so , either personally , or by others susception , by his comming , or being brought to be a disciple . answ. were not the dr. a very bold paraphrast , he would never have dared to say , that this is all the im●ortance of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . to be entred into a school for a subsequent instruction witho●t any precedent , which is or hath been entred as a disciple into the kingdome of heaven , who since his entrance hath been instructed , but this not by force of the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for still a disciple he may be before he learns . hath the dr. the face to say that the words might be so understood every scribe that is or hath been entred as a disciple unto the kingdome of heaven is like unto a man that is an housholder , which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old ? doth not our lord christ infer this as a consequent of their hearing , and understanding of the parables wherein he had instructed them in the foregoing part of the chapter ? is there any translator or commentator afore him that hath thus expounded it ? the vulgar hierome , ●igurine , reade doctus , learned beza , edoctus , well learned . hierome expounds it thus , instru i erant apostoli , scribae & not arii salvatoris , qui verba illius & praecepta signabant in tabuli● cordis carnalibus regnorum c●lestium s●cramentis . grotius annot . in locum , doctor . inquit , bene paratus atque eruditus ad tradenda praecepta regni c●lestis . yea the dr. himself here explains 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus , a scribe discipled , a grown man and learned among the jews , before he came to christ ; though he doth grosly abuse the text by making as if the scribe were taken for one so termed among the jews afore he came to christ , whereas the term is used of christian teachers , ●●lusively to that orde● of men among the jews termed scribes , in which sense christ saith , he would send them wise men and scribes , matth. . . which is luke . . apostles , and that text chrysostome in his homily on matth. . . makes like to it , and grotius annot . in locum , propriè autem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 respo●dent ii qui in ecclesia christiana dicti sunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quod nomen in actis & epistolis pauli aliquoties legitur . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 psal. . . and prov. . . it is no better then a whimzy which the dr. here ven●s , as if the force of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 noted not learning but admission to school , when the ve●y use of the word notes in this place one well learned ; and to assert a man may bee a disciple before he learns , being onely obliged to learn , by his own or other susception , by his comming or being brought to be a disciple , w●en the very derivation is from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ hath learned . the dr. saith f●r her . so in the ot●er place acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] signifies no more then having received or initiated , i e. ( i suppose ) by thi● righ● of baptism , made and baptized many di●ciples , whic● though it be there set down as a consequ●nt of the apostles preaching the gospel in ●hat city ( for otherwise it were not imaginable that they shou●d receive any disciples there , they must first proclaim admission to all that come , before any c●n be expected ●ither to come or to be brought to them ) yet may it very reasonably be extended to more persons then those that understood their preaching , viz. to the infant children of their proselytes brought to them by their parents , and dedicated to christ. answ. this text was produced to prove that the d●s . position was false when he said , that the making or receiving disciples supposeth not any precedent instruction , but looks wholly on it as subsequent , sith the word notes ●eaching as our translators , the vulgar , erasmus , reade it , and the way of making disciples is expresly made in the text , the preaching of the gospel . the dr. saith , it signifies no more then having received or initiated i. e. ( he sup●oseth ) by baptism , but this none else saith , and that it may be reasonably extended to infants , but he gives no reason , nor answers the objections to the contrary , but he keeps his wont of vain cracikng . thus invailid ( saith he of me ) are his attempts from the notation of the word , and by consequence his inference from thence ( which is set down as his fifth proof ) that thereby it may appear how the apostles understood the precept of christ to preach the gospel to persons and thereby make them disciples . for although the practise of the apostles be indeed the meanes by which we may discern how they understood christ● precept ( and those two places cited by mr. t. from matth. . and acts . do no way belong to that , they tell us not whether they received infants to baptism or not ) yet i may very well ward my self from any inconvenience , which this use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in other places can threaten , it being already vindicated from all necessity that it should be confirmed to grown men , and not communicated to infants also . answ. how well the dr. hath vindicated the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from all necessity that it should be confined to grown men , may appear from that which goes before , in which it may be seen that he hath neither brought one place to shew that ever it was applied to an infant , nor answered one objection to the contrary . and me thinks he here overthrowes himself . he had said before ▪ that acts . ● ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] signifies no more then ha●ing received , or initiated , i. e. ( i suppose ) by this rite of baptism made and baptized many disciples , yet he saith here , those two places cited ●y mr. ● . from matth. . and acts . do no way belong to that , they tell us not whether they received infants to baptism or not , how then can they be extended●o ●o them ? how is the word vindicated from all necessity that it should be confined to grown men ? are not these cross caper● ? again , if these texts tel● us not whether they received infants to baptism , or not , it is because the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not meant of infants , or because it imports precedent instruction , or christs precept matth. . . was not meant of infants , or the apostles practise was not to baptize infants , or the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies more then receiving or initiating by baptism or some other reason ▪ what ever it be it will overthrow the drs. supposition , that the discipling matth. . . did not exclude infants . i would further ask , whether the dr. imagins that the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to disciple , be as much as to baptize ? if he say it is , then i would know how he can acquit the words joh. . . where he confesseth , that making disciples is the same with discipling , matth. . . and then the meaning must be , he baptized and baptized , and matth. . . baptize baptizing , from inept ●autology ? if he say it is more , then it is false , that acts . . it signifies no more , and if it signifie more , let him tell us what it is except teaching , that we may practise it according to the command matth. . . if that be it , let him shew how that 's extended to infants , if he cannot , then the apostles practise expressed acts . . is to be so understood ; and the apostles practise being indeed the meanes to discern how they understood c●rists precept , by that we may discern that the apostles understood the discipling matth. . . of no other then making disciples by preaching the gospel to each , and thereby teaching them , and consequently infants are excluded , which i was to demonstrate . i added a sixth proof thus , a disciple and a believer appear to be the same , by comparing matth. . . with mark . , . for as the way of making disciples is more fully expressed by preaching the gospel ; so the disciple to be baptized is expressed by [ the believer ] which is put before bap●ism . to this , saith the dr. i answer , ● . that that passage in st. mark , he that beleiveth and is baptized shall be saved , and he that beleiveth not shall be damned , and so on to the end of the gospel is ( as even now i intimated ) added by that evangelist , to the words , as they are set down in matthew , and so being an addition , cannot bee looked on as exactly parallel to the words in matthew , go and disciple all nations baptizing them ▪ and this we also know is ordinary for one evangelist to set down more fully what is omitted or more shortly set down in the other , and s. mark that in other things was willing to abbreviate s● . matthew , doth now visibly inlarge ; and so the comparison cannot regularly be made betwixt these ●wo evangelists words ▪ something being abbreviated in mark , which was more at large in matthew , and something more conci●ely set down in matthew , and more largely in mark. and then what necessity is there , that mark not mentioning discipling but believing , and matthew men ioning discipling but not bel●eving , the discipled and believers should be deemed the same . 't is true indeed of grown men , none can in reason be admitted disciples , which are not also believers ( the ground of which i have set down in the resol of the quaerep . . ) but of infant children this is not true , for those , though they cannot come , may yet be brought , and though not upon their own confession , yet by the susception of others , made capable of the churches charity , and so may be disciples without actual or personal belief . answ. though the words are not exactly parallel , yet they being of the same matter at the same time , the one interpret the other , and then any man may easily perceive , discipling all nations , to be the same with preaching the gospel to every creature , and thereby making disciples , and baptizing them , that is disciples , to answer to ●e that believes and is baptized , and accordingly all along the acts of the apostles , disciples and believers are the same , and before baptism believing is required , and they that were baptized were first s●id to believe , and so generally commentatours expound the words as synonymous , nor doth the scripture make one qualification to baptism for infants , and another for grown men , nor any where term infants disciples ; and if none of grown men can in reason be admitted disciples , which are not also believers , con●ent to be disciples of christ , then infants by their susception and bringing , are not made nor to be admitted discipl●s of christ , without act●al or personal belief ▪ there being no such distinction of disciples in christs words , nor any such appointment of baptizing disciples by such bringing or susception ▪ but in such actions there is great sin o● rashness in those that undertake , of prophaneness in those that bri●g and admit nor is there any true charity , but errour , arrogance , and folly in the church , which shall thus presume to put one kinde of disciples ●ancied by themselves in stead of another appoint●d by christ , who is the onely institutor of baptism , and so the onely r●gulator of it , and ●he term [ disciple ] in grown men , being the same with [ believer ] nor any other termed a disciple but a believer , it is clear none are discipled , and conseq●ently none are to be baptized according to matth. , . but actual and personal believers . but the dr. hath not yet done , but adds . nay dly , if mr. t. his argument had power to infer it , 't were that which i might safely avouch , that infants may be comprehended under the stile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they that b●lieve and are bap●ized ; so even now we had it in the express words of christ , the little ones ( and s. luke specifies them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 little infants ) that believe on him ; i. e. just as they are said elsewhere to come unto him , when they are as uncapable for want of bodily strength of personal comming , as for want of strength of mind or judgement of personal believing , and yet in respect of others bringing them to christ ( and so to the church in baptism ) they are by christ himself said to do both of these , to come in one place , and to believe in the other . answ. comming imports onely a local motion to a place or person , and may be by either a persons or things motion from an inward or outward principle in elder or younger persons , he that is carried in a coach , or on horseback , or by barge , is said to come to london or home , as well as he that goes on foot ; but believing is an immanent act , which neither is , no● can be ano●hers a●t then the persons , nor by any others motion then his own , nor from any other principle without his own understanding . no where are infants in age termed believers , one of these little ones , matth. . . cannot be meant of little ones in age , for it supposeth then more li●tle ones in age then present , whereas there was b●t one present v. . and then it would be a very great sin to offend a little one in age ; but the wo●ds following v. , . shew the term little ones to be meant of those christians who were apt to be despised , and liable to going astray . but if infants were meant matth. . . yet it is false which the dr. saith , that he might safely avouch that infants may be comprehended under the stile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they that believe and are baptized , for it followes in the drs. own words ; but then dly , i willingly acknowledge that the word [ believe ] in mark , belongs peculiarly to the grown men and women who are called by the preaching of the gospel , of whom though it bee said , that believing and being baptized they shall be saved , and not believing they shall be damned , yet it no way followes , that none but such as thus personally believed , should be baptized , or that being baptized they should not be saved ; but lose all the benefit of their baptism . ] so that the dr. yeilding that mark . . is meant of grown persons peculiarly , he could not safely avouch ( unless an untruth might be safely avouched ) that infants may be comprehended under the stile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they that believe and are baptized , which is onely mark . . and then it follows hence that none are to be counted disciples but believers , nor any to be baptized but such . the benefit of bap●ism to infants i think is none , sure not salvation without faith in act or seed , or something equivolent . it followes in the dr. the latter part of the words is considerable , he that believeth not shall be damned , infidelity is pitcht on as the thing peculiarly that incurs the certain damnation , i. e. the voluntary resisting the faith when it is preached convincingly to them , and of that none are capable , but those that are arrived to years of understanding ; which as it is an indication that that v ▪ and those that follow in s. mark of believers casting out devils , &c. v. , . belong to adulti peculiarly , so it no way hinders , but s. matthews words being different from them , and supposed to be precedent to them in christs delivery , may comprehend infants also , as such who are capable of e●tring into discipleship , and of being brought and presented to the apostles by believing pa●ents . this being the way whereby the faith of the parents may be signally beneficial to the child , in bringing him thus early into the school , and so to the benediction of christ , the parents together with the infant children , as among the jewes so among christian● , entring together into covenant with god. answ. i did ever conceive and so do others , and me thinks the dr. should conceive so too , that the commission mark . , . is the same ▪ though with some variation of words , but not of matter , with that matth. . . and if so , the dr. hath granted and proved enough here to shew that believers mark . . are onely adulti capable of understanding , and so none other disciples to be baptized matth. . . which is that i was to prove ; and need therefore adde no more to refute his stale crambe of his jewish p●ttern , but shall consider what he saith for his position of making disciples without precedent instruction . dr. hammond defence of infants baptism ch . ● ▪ sect . . p. . writes thus ; i say that the making or receiving disciples , supposeth not any precedent instruction , but looks wholly on it as subsequent . this ● there concluded not from the bare negative , because there was no precedent mention of such instruction , where discipling and baptizing were both mentioned , but because in that place on which the antipaedobaptist so much relies , matth. . .● the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 teaching ] is expresly mentioned after discipling and baptizing , and so is in reason to be deemed , and lookt on , as subsequent to both , and so the receiving ad discipulatum , refer to that then future instruction , p. . in this matter mr. t. is willing to finde a difference betwixt teaching them to observe all things whatsoever christ hath commanded them , matth. . . and the preaching of the gospel in s. mark : thinking by that means to avoid the importunity of that text in matthew , which evidently sets baptism before instructing . but this can avail him nothing . for if by the gospel in mark we understand the whole gospel , as in reason we must , for that is ●t which must be preacht to every creature ( the gentile world ) then is that directly all one with teaching them to observe whatsoever he hath commanded ; but if by preaching the gospel we mean no more then , as mr. t. here saith , that jesus is the christ , i. e. the proposing him as a master , and calling all to come to him as disciples , then this being supposed precedent to mens comming to discipleship , or bringing their infants to it ( for without this they cannot be expected to come themselves , or to bring their infants ) all the ●est is left to follow baptism , and so all particular christian instruction is subsequent ▪ not precedent to baptism , an effect of their discipleship , attending it no way necessary to prepare for it , which is the u●most 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which from that circumstance of that text i undertook to demonstrate . answ. that the dr. saith not true in this , is manifest from his words , which were , not 〈◊〉 here , that all particular christian instruction besides the proposing christ as a master , and calling all to come to him as disciples is subsequent , but this letter of resol . q. . § . . having said that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not duly exprest by our english , teach , but make disciples , or receive into discipleship all nations , baptizing them in the name , &c. making this form of baptism their ceremony of receiving them ; he adds , where the baptizing being immediately annexed to the making or receiving disciples , and the receiving d●sciples not supposing any precedent instruction , but looking wholly on it as subsequent , all that are thus brought and received ad discipulatum , to be for the future instructed and instituted in the christian faith , may surely bee received by baptism , the ceremo●y which is there prescribed by christ , with which to receive disci●les . from which words it is evident he made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without teaching to import the receiving of disciples , even infants brought by others , and not onely all particular christian instruction subse●uent to baptism , but even instruction and institution in the christian faith , and the receiving disciples supposing not any precedent instruction , but looking wholly on it as subsequent ; which if he now retract and acknowledge that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : imports more then bare admission of disciples , and includes preaching of the gospel that jesus is the christ , i. e. proposing him as a master , and calling all to come to him as disciples , and this precedent to baptism , then is some instruction in the faith necessarily precedent , and teaching by thus preaching the gospel included in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , make disciples , and none appointed to be baptized but they that are thus made disciples , and so no infants , and thus it will avail me something which i noted . as for what he saith , that in reason we must understand mark . . the whole gospel , and that then is that directly all one with teaching them to observe whatsoever he hath commanded . neither is it true , that in reason we must understand the whole gospel , but so much at least as th● apostles were wont to preach to persons afore they baptized them ( for they best understood christs commission mark . . ) which may be seen in these and such like places , acts . , &c. & . , , . & . , &c. & . , . & . , &c & . . cor. . , , &c. nor if it were true doth it follow , that then that is directly all one with teaching them to observe whatsoever hee hath commanded . for . i no where finde agenda things to be observed by us , termed the gospel , but credenda things to be believed rom. . , . & . . cor. . , . gal , . . tim. . and accordingly no where is the go●pel propounded in the imperative , as a thing to be done by us , but in the indicative mood , as a thing to be believed ; and accordingly wee are commanded mark . . to believe the gospel , and thus it is meant mark . . for after it is appointed to the apostles to preach the gospel , it is presently adde● v. . hee that believeth , to wit the gospel preached , and is baptized , shall be saved . . if it were so that the ●ospel did contain agenda , commands to be observed by us , yet to preach the gospel could not be directly all one with teaching them to observe all things whatsoever christ hath commanded , for baptism is a command of christ , yet is not any part of the subsequent instruction after baptism , which is meant by christ in those words , and yet if any , is to be accounted part of the gospel . so that it is evident , that the distinction i made between teaching the gospel and other commands was right , and that the dr. by making all the ●eaching matth. , ▪ subsequent to baptism , hath perverted the order of christ , and abused the text for the countenance of his errour of infant baptism's consistency with christs appointment , matth. . . mark . , . the dr. adds , p. . and to this sense i there made it manifest , that the definition of baptism , pet. . . did refer that baptism is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seeking to god , as to the oracle to enquire for the whole future life no way pre requiring actual instruction , but comming to christ and the church , to receive it and obey it for the future ( and that done in some sort by those that ●re brought when they are not able to come , and by the charity of the ●hurch received there . ) answ. there is neither a definit●on of baptism pet. . . nor any thing like it , nor doth the drift of the speech lead to such a concei● . that it is not a definition of baptism may appear by the properties of a definiti●n , for a definition sets down what a thing is , and is reciprocal with the thing defined , but the genus of baptism cannot bee answer , or interrogation , or stipulation baptism actively taken being an act of hands , passively of the whole body , answer , interrogation or stipulation , if by words of the tongue , if of the conscience of the minde , nor any difference f●om prayer , or vow , or such like act . nor is there any thi●g like it , there being no expression of the nature o● baptism in the church , but the use before god , nor is the intent to shew what baptism is in it self , but when it sa●es , and the speech is a comparative expression , like that in the same chapter v. , . matth. . . and other the like ; in which the meaning is , that baptism saves not when there is onely a putting away of the filthiness of the flesh , but wh●n there is with it also the answer , interrogation , or stipulation of a good conscience towards god , so that the predication is not formal but connex●ve , not shewing what i● is , but what it is accompanied with when it saves . nor is the drs. sense true . for such seeking to god as he speaks of by baptism , when a child is brought by others to learn , and by the churches charity received , doth not save as the answer of a good conscience towards god is said to do , nor is the answer , interrogation , or stipulation of a good conscience towards god without actual instruction , there is no man that makes an answer , or promises or makes an interrogation without some pre●edent instruction ▪ whose act soever it bee there must bee some knowledge of god and christ , afore there is seeking or enquiry and address to him ; nor is there any intimation of any ones bringing and the church receiving , nor any propounding any q●estion to l●arn , but if the allusion be to the use of the old questions and answers , abrenuncias ? abrenuncio . credis ? credo ▪ spondes ? spondeo ; as beza annot . in locum and others conceive : or the term note an answer or stipulation as beza , or interrogation as the vulgar ●ati● , or confession as the syriack , or examination and proving ( which as heinsius exercit. in locum conceives , is intimated as pre-requisite to baptism as well as the lords supper ) it is evidently another thing , then dr. hammonds tendring a child , or a mans own offer of himself to be entred into a school that he might learn. it is in my apprehension an act of plerophory of faith , through the resurrection of christ from the dead , the same or near that demand of the apostle . rom. . , . not such a low act which comes so many degrees ●h●r● of saving ●aith , as the drs. enquiry or address as to an oracle for future instruction ▪ by a mans own presenting himself or his child to the church for baptism is , which is so childish a conceit , as i should think should har●ly have comen into the head of such a man , did it not h●ppen to him , as to men that talk with chil●ren , to talk as a child . but he adds more of the 〈…〉 when he saith . and this farther illustrated as by the manner of children brought by parents to school , without either knowledge of letters , o● choise , or so much as w●sh ●f instruction , so by the manner of christs disciples being received of him , particularly of philip joh. . . who was called and received into discipleship as soon as ever christ met with him , i. e. before he was at all instructed by him ; and so also by the story of the jews , exod. . . who undertook to obey all the commandements of god , which hee should give , which yet were not then , but after given them , v. . which are clear evidenc●s , that those may be received into discipleship , which have not yet had precedent instruction . against this all that he hath to pretend is set down by him in these words . let putting to school be as early as the dr. will imagine , yet none is put to school till he doth know his teacher , and so none is christs disciple in scripture language till he know jesus to bee ch●ist , and take him for his lord , which infants being not capable of , they are not disciples , not to be baptized according to christs appointment . to this i answer , . that the example which i had used of children being brought to school by the care of their parents , was designed to shew no more then this , that they may be delivered up to be schollers , who as yet know nothing of what they are to learn , nor have actual willingness to acquire knowledge , and consequently that entrance into discipleship refers onely to subsequent , supposes not any precedent instruction . and this is competently evidenced by that example , though it were supposed of the child that goes to school , that he knowes his teacher , this bare knowledge of the person of his teacher , being none of the documents which hee comes to learn , but the good letters that are profest and taught in the school , nor indeed is it imaginable why a blind child which is brought to school , or put to an instructer , and so cannot bee deemed to know the master before assuetude hath acquainted him with him , should not yet bee said , with as full propriety of speech , to come to school , as he that useth his own eyes as well as feet to direct him thither . answ. no child is ever entred a scholler without some such document as this , you must hearken to your master , which is some precedent instruction , and though he be a blind or a lame child , or both , he that puts him to school gives him some item who is his master , and to what end he is brought to him ( whereof none is done to an infant ) and though these be not the documents which he comes to school to learn , yet they are documents which he is taught afore he comes to school . the dr. adds . ly . it is as true , that children that are brought to school do not alwayes know their masters before their entrance , no not by the most superficial knowledge ; many are brought to publike schools , who never so much as saw their masters till they are by their parents delivered up into their power and discipline ; if this bee not plain enough , then change the similitude from the schoolmaster to the parent or guardian , or the very nurse , every one of these are to feed , and nourish , and as he shall be capable , to instruct the child , and so doth christ in a spiritual sense , whosoever is intrusted ( by being brought ) to him in baptism . and we know god and nature doth thus bring a child to the parent , to the nurse or guardian , when the child knowes none of these , nor understands any more of all these transaction , then the infant doth at the font conceive what is done to it there . and so still this evidenceth the vanity of this answer concerning the childs knowing his teacher . answ. it doth indeed evidence the vanity of this drs. answer , who being to shew how the words of christ matth. . . do not exclude infants from baptism , sith they are first to be made disciples , afore they are to be baptized whom he appoints to be baptized , having first turned the pr●cept of making disci●les , in●o receiving of persons to be discipled , and making them disciples by preaching the gospel to them , into preaching it to others who may bring them to school , and being urged with this that none are brought to school till he know his teacher , hath no better shift then here he useth to avoid it . for hee it that some are brought to school that have not a superficial knowledge of their master , as having never seen him , yet they are not brough● till they be told they are to go to a mast●r , nor entred into the school ( which was the drs. notion of making disciples , matth. . . ) till he have some knowledge who is to be his teacher . as for his other shift by changing the similitude , it is worse , for thereby he quits the cause , the precept being not matth. . . set to nurse , but make disciples , and therefore though it be true , that a father , guardian or nurse , are to receive a child that knows none of them , and are to feed , nou●ish and instruct it as it is c●pable , and it is a good office to bring an infant to such persons to such ends , yet is it neither agreeable to use nor reason , but rather the part of a frantique man out of his wi●s , to bring an infant to be admitted into a school to be taught or matriculated in the university , nor doth christ appoint such to be admitted as disciples to him ; nor is it true which this dr. saith , that christ doth in a spiritual sense feed , nourish and instruct whosoever is intrusted ( by being brought ) to him in baptism ; nor do i think but that the infant knowes more the nur●e , and the bringing of it to that end , then the infant doth at the font conceive what is done to it there . so that hitherto the dr. hath not avoided this objection , that though i● were granted him ( which yet is not true ) that making disciples , matth. . ● . is no more then receive to discipleship or to school , yet infants are excluded , who are by none received to d●scipleship , or entred into schools . but the dr. hath one more li●t at this block which thus lies in his way . but then , saith he , dly . this so imperfect superficial knowledge of the teacher , is in no wise worth considering in this matter ; for i shall demand , doth such very imperfect knowledge of christ , as a school boy hath of his teacher , the first hour ●e comes into the school , qu●lifie him for discipleship to ●hrist or no ? if it do , then his country-men and kinsmen , before he revealed himself ●o be the messiah and the pharisees , which believed not his mirac●es were sufficiently qualified , and then 't is evident that those might be admitted to discipleship , which were not believers , and so all mr t. his hypotheses are destroyed , and then infants may be disciple● and baptized though they be not believers . answ. this is very doctor-like arguing , to put a question and then make the answer absurd if it be affirmative , but shew no absurdity in it , if it be made negatively , as indeed it is . which i shoul● not have mentioned , but that he twits me ( though unjustly ) in the beginning of the next section , with setting down a first reason without a second . i answer then to his question negatively , and yet such imperfect superficial knowledge of a teacher , is worth considering in this matter , to shew that no infant who hath not so much knowledge of christ as such a school boy of his master , is to bee termed chr●sts disciple or admitted to discipleship . and yet if i had answered affirmatively , i think none of my hypotheses had been destroyed ; for such imperfect knowledge of the ma●●er might be with faith in him , as able to teach him and willing to do him good , and so a christian who hath b●t such imperfect knowledge of christ as a school●boy of his master the first hour he comes to school , may be a believer , and know him to be the messiah afore he bee baptized , and not , as his kinsmen , country men , or pharisees , an unbeliever . yet the dr. tels us , as for that which he here interposes [ the knowing jesus to be christ , and taking him for his lord ] this bears no ●roportion with the childs bare knowing of his master , but is far above it , equal to his making it his own choise to have this master , rather then any other , and promising exact obedience to him , which is much more then is to hee found in most young schollers ▪ or indeed in any that are brought by their parents or guardians , who alone are the persons who bear proportion with the infants brought by others to baptism . answ. ●his might have been omitted , but that the dr. was willing to write something though it be i●pertinent , sith it opposeth not me ; who said not that the knowing jesus to be christ and taking him for his lord , bears any even proportion with the childs bare knowing his master , but onely said as none is put to school till he doth know his teacher , so none in scripture language is christs disciple till hee know christ , not just so imperfectly as a school-boy . and yet i think there are some young schollers brought by parents or guardians , who make choise themselves of their master , and promise exact obedience to him . the dr. concludes this section thus . so that this reasoning of his , is soon salved by distinguishing of disciples , that they are either such as come , or such as are brought to school , proselytes of their own choise , or children under the care of others ; of the former sort there are none but such as have some rude imperfect knowledge of christ , upon which they make this choise , and without it would not probably be expected to make it ; but for children which as minors in their guardians hands , have no will of their own , there is no necessity they should have knowledge to move their will , they may very reasonably bee acted by the will of others , and by their charity bee made partakers of those priviledges which are communicated from christ in his church to all true members thereof , and to that end be discipled and baptized , entred by this ceremony into the church of god , where instruction is to be had as soon as they are capable of it , and in the mean while partake of those other advantages , of which their condition is capable . answ. when the dr. hath proved out of scripture , that there is any such sort of disciples of christ as he here describes , who come not but are brought to school by others , i shall acknowledge he hath sa●ved my reasoning ; till then i take this for vain babling , and conceive it little better then to speak of a disciple who hath no will of his own , nor knowledge to move it then to speak of a man that is irrational , and to say they may very reasonably be acted by the will of others , who are not so by their own , is in my apprehension all one as to say , they may very reasonably be acted , who are acted as bruits . the instance of philip , joh. . . servs not the drs. turn , for though he were called and received into discipleship as soon as ever christ met with him , yet not afore christ spake to him , and ●id him follow him , which implies some instruction by him , and therefore it is false that the dr. saith , he was received into discipleship before he was at all instructed by christ , nor doth that of the jews exod. . . who did then answer as disciples , but as servants , or persons that covenanted . but the dr. hath yet one more string to his bowe , though the rest be crackt . lastly , saith he , i concluded that the making or receiving disciples , supposeth not any precedent instruction by the nature of proselytism , which as it is all one with entring into gods covenant , and ( in the christian sense ) with coming to christ and being received into discipleship , so 't is that which children are known to be capable of , not onely by that text deut. . ● . but by the custome of baptizing infant proselytes among the jews , and by christs command to suffer them to come unto him , whensoever they were thus brought . hereto i said , that it is not true , that a disciple and a proselyte are perfectly all one . for a proselyte notes one that is by birth an alien from the commonwealth of israel , and comes to israel to own their god , and bee part of their policy , not to bee taught , but to enjoy priviledges with other jews , whether civil or ecclesiastical . but a disciple of christ is one that owns christ for his teacher and lord , onely for spiritual benefits . but certainly , saith the dr. this is no reason of difference , for besides that i in that § . . acknowledged this accidental difference , that a proselyte denotes a comming from some other nation ( as a disciple doth not ) adding , that this diffe●ence had no place in this matter , where the disciples are specified to be received from all nations ; besides this , i say , it cannot be unknown to mr. t. that i speak of proselytes in such a notion as is equally competible to all of what nation soever they are , that enter into covenant with god. answ. who but he that writes at randome , would assert that a disciple and proselyte are perfectly all one , and yet acknowledge this accidental difference , that this is no reason of difference , and yet say , that a proselyte denotes a comming from some other nation ( as a disciple doth not ) that this is but an accidental difference , and yet in his own description make this very difference , and when he expresseth the hebrew word for proselyte , still terms him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a stranger , that this difference had no place in this matter , when his inference is from proselytes who were strangers to the jews , to prove disciples and proselytes the same , and to tell me i must know his use of a word , which hee neither shews that he or any else have so used . but the dr. adds . thus do we finde a proselyte defined , heb. . . by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that commeth to god , thus doth a jew when he enters into covenant of obedience to him , and thus did a gentile when he undertook the whole law of the jewes , and was therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a proselyte of the covenant , and a proselyte of their righteousness , and such is every one whether jew or gentile that commeth to christ , and as the two former of these were made partakers of priviledges by this means , particularly allowed freely to enter into the congregation , and infants as well as grown men were thus among them admitted into covenant ; so it is not imaginable why it should not hold of the christian proselytes also , nor why the christian infants thus received into covenant by christ , after the same manner as jewish and gentile infants were among the ancient people of god. i. e. by baptism , should not as properly bee called proselytes of christ ▪ though they neither c●me from any other nation , nor ever associate themselves with israelites according to the flesh . answ. if the notion of a proselyte were according to heb. . . i should agree that a disciple of christ and a proselyte were the same ; for such a proselyte is one that is a believer , as the words shew ; but without faith it is impossible to please god ; for he that commeth to god must believe that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him . all such proselytes of christ i doubt not are admitted into covenant , to be b●ptized , to partake of priviledges in the christian church whether they be jewes or gentiles , according to that cor. . . and when infants are proved to be such , there will be no question about their baptism , though not by reason of the jewish custome , yet by vertue of christs institution to baptize disciples and believers on him . but that infants of christians are thus received into covenant by christ after the same manner as jewish and gentile infants were among the ancient people of god , i. e. by baptism , or that afore they believe they should be called proselytes of christ , or , that every one whether jew or gentile that commeth to christ , is as a gentile when hee undertook the whole law of the jewes , and was therefore a proselyte of their covenant and a proselyte of their righteousness , or that a christian believer is either termed in scripture a proselyte , or any jew is to be so termed properly is not to be imagined , all these things being the meer dreams of the dr. suitable to his fancy of infant baptism instituted among christians a●ter the jewish pattern . the dr. proceeds thus ; and whereas he saith of the proselytes comming to the israelites , that they came not to be taught but to enjoy priviledges , i cannot divine what motive he had to affirm it , for sure the infant child that was baptized , and so received into the congregation of israel did come to learn the jewish religion , into which he was thus early initiated , and that was one special priviledge ( the rest of the heathen having not knowledge of these lawes ) the immediate end of his proselytism , yet not excluding those other ends of injoying all other priviledges both civil and ecclesiastical thereby . answ. the infant had no end but such as the parent , who was indeed the proselyte , had , and the parents end was not to be taught , for hee was taught the jewish religion before , and at his baptism , the precepts of moses being recited to him while he stood in the water , by the elders at whose command he was baptized , and admitted into the jewish policy , afore which admission he was to undertake the observance of them , the proper and immediate end of his proselytism , was his injoying those priviledges which native jewes had as one of that body , which shews that the admission of a proselyte was not into a school to learn , and therefore the notion of proselytism not like the notion of receiving to discipleship , which the dr. fancies to be meant matth. . . and to be the same with admission to proselytism ; to shew the mistake of which was the motive why i set this difference between a proselyte and a disciple of christ , as the dr. might easily have di●ined , if hee had been minded to do so . the dr. saith of me , and when he adds , but a disciple of christ is one that owns christ for his teacher and lord , onely for spiritual benefits , i might as well acknowledge it , and ask why then an infant who hath need of those spiritual benefits , as soon as he is born should not be hastened to a participation of them . answ. i know no reason why hee should not , nor do i know any reason why he should be baptized , nor how by it an infant may be hastened to the participation of spiritual or other benefits , but know reason why an infant should not bee baptized , because baptism is thereby profaned , and the infant afterwards usually hardened through pernicione presumption , as if he were thereby made a christian. the dr. saith also . but it is farther evident , that spiritual benefits beeing first and principally designed , other even secular advantages , may very lawfully bee respected , and reaped by them that are thus early brought in , whether as disciples or proselytes to christ. answ. that by baptism infants are brought in as disciples or proselytes to christ , or attain any advantages spiritual or secular i know not , sure i am none are lawfully respected in the use of infant baptism , being wholly besides christs minde , and if the end of proselytism was ( as manifestly it was ) for far different purposes from that of a disciple of christ , the proselyte and disciple of christ are not perfectly one , which i was to demonstrate . yet again , saith the dr. two sage observations he here addeth ; that there is no mention of the disciples of the priests , but of the pharisees and sadduces , and i can verily well grant it , who speak not of any lower kinde of disciples , but either of god among the jewes , or of christ , among us christians , those being the onely discipleship , to which they were admitted by the ceremony of baptism , the disciples of the pharisees and sadduces being but a subdivision and notification of several sects among the jewes , as there are different denominations of christians ( the more the pity ) which divide unity , but use not new baptism to discriminate them , i am sure contradict the apostle if they do . answ. how sage the drs. observations of making disciples as all one with receiving to discipleship , of baptizing after the jewish pattern , &c. are is seen before . this observation is not denied by the dr. nor any thing said by him to evacuate the use i intended to make of it , to shew that to be a disciple , doth not no●e the comming to god to enjoy benefits , as the dr. made the notion of a proselyte to import , for then persons should be termed disciples of the priests , which is not so , but to learn , and so the disciples of pharisees were those who learned their opinions . that which the dr. saith is not true , that by baptism persons were admitted to discipleship , nor that disciples of the pharisees and sadduces were but a subdivision under disciples of god or christ , for their disciples were no disciples of god or christ , nor pertinent to the avoiding the use of my observation . 't is true there are different denominations of christians ( the more the pity ) which divide unity , and of them i know none so great as that of the prelatists , who will neither hear the preacher who preacheth the faith of christ , nor joyn in prayer unless the common prayer book be used , nor own them as presbyters who were not ordained by a bishop distinct from a presbyter , nor joyn with that society as a church lawfully constituted where there is not episcopal government , which i take to be a manifestly unjust schism and recusancy . i know none that use new baptism , but paedobaptists , who therein contradict christs institution and the apostles practise . pistobaptists or baptizers of believers of age , upon their profession of faith , use the old baptism which christ appointed and the apostles practised , not to discriminate them from others , but to do their duty , and to supply a defect in infant sprinkling . the dr. saith , his second observation is , that the holy ghost doth not at any time call christians christs proselytes , but his disciples , that , saith he , we might not confound the notions of these termes . but i answer , . that those texts that express the christians entring into discipleship , by comming unto him ( of which there are good store ) do in effect call them proselytes , for a proselyte is a greek noun , derived immediately from the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to come unto . answ. . i think this not true , sith the texts which express the comming to christ , do mean by it believing in him , as joh. . . shews , but that is not in effect to call them proselytes in the drs. sense , nor is the notion of a commer unto and a disciple all one , sith a person may come to a person , yea to learn , and never yet be his disciple . and secondly , saith the dr. that if this word whether in it self , or in the verb from whence it ●omes , had never been used in the n. t. yet would it not thence follow , that we might not confound the notions of proselytes and disciples . ans. nor do i make it any demonstrative argument but probable , as it is probable , that the holy ghost calls not the christian society the synagogue , nor the preachers of the gospel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 priests , that we may not confound them . i have often given a firm reason , why infants capable of coming to christ , blessed by him , and affirmed to be qualified for the kingdom of heaven , should be denied water to be baptized , even this , that neither christ appointed it , nor the apostles baptized them , though he did the other to them . the christian church or minister might not deny baptism to infants , if they were qualified as cornelius and the gentiles that came with him were acts . , . & . . what i said of infants being unqualified for baptism , till by hearing they own christ as their master , is fully proved in the ●d . part of this review , sect . , &c. and it is therefore too too boldly said by the dr. that it is a begging of the question without the least tender of proof . whether or in what manner the little ones mentioned deut. . . did enter into covenant , is so fully discussed before sect. , , , , . chiefly this last , that i need here add no more . either in one of those sections or some where before in this part of the review , i have proved from the text and commentators , that those that were not with them that day , v. . were unborn , chiefly in that v. . moses called unto all israel , and they are said v. . all to stand there that day , and therefore i might more justly wonder ( though it be no wonder that the dr. thus abuseth me ) that hee should have the face to say , i impose on the reader . he tels me , there is no mention of any act of the fathers engaging them under a curse or oath , but onely of gods oath which he maketh to them , v. . but he might have seen v. . these words , neither do i make with you onely this covenant and this oath , but with him also that is not here with us th●● day , which i know not how it should be meant of any other then the unborn , for none but they of israel were then absent , and entering into an oath and curse as they did nehem. . . and for what hee adds , if they had thus adjured or laid oath or curse upon their children , yet would this make no difference betwixt their and our entring into covenant , we by the oath of baptism which i● laid on the child ( by him to be performed when he comes to ability , unless he will forfeit all the benefits of his baptism ) do in like manner adjure our infants , though while they remain such , they hear it as little as the jewish infants did . but sure there is a great difference between the solemn adjuration of moses and all israel binding their posterity and recorded in the book of the law , and the obscure charge of an ignorant officiating priest to three gossips , whereof some are so ignorant , that they know not what the christian faith is at a font , which hee terms the oath of baptism , which is seldome either heeded or remembred by any present . and whereas he saith , my rejecting his inference , that by parity of reason infants may be entred into discipleship and baptized , to be a denying the conclusion when the premises cannot be denied ; it is not true , for the consequence is plainly denied , and the reason is given of that denial , and each branch proved in the book before sect . , &c. and therefore i shall say no more to this section , it being pity ( to use the drs. words ) to lose time on such trifling conceits empty of all proof , as this dr. hath dictated for infant baptism . he said better pract. cat . l. . § . . the apostles powers were to preach and baptize those that received their doctrine . sect . xcviii . the testimonies of cyprian , augustin , and other latin fathers for infant baptism , are shewed to have come from their mistakes ; and the evidences why the antiquity of infant baptism should not be deemed such as is pretended , are vindicated . i now return to the examination of the testimonies brought out of the rest of the latin fathers besides tertullian for infant baptism , whereof cyprian was the chief , and his testimony is thus urged by dr. hammond defence of infant baptism , chap. . sect . . p. . in the midst of this third age , an. chr. . was s. cyprian made bp. of carthage , and ten years after he suffered martyrdome , i. e. years after the age of the apostles . in the year he sate in councel with bishops ( see justellus in his preface to the african canons p. . ) and their decrees by way of synodical epistle are to be seen in his ep. . ad fidum fratrem , which is now among his works , ●amel . edit . p. . the councel was in answer to some questions about baptism , and accordingly he there sets down his own opinion , together with the decrees of that councel of bishops which were assembled with him ; and so this , as it is an ancient , so it is more then a single testimony , that of a whole councel added to it ; and yet farther to encrease the authority of it , 〈◊〉 cites this epistle more then once , and sets it down almost entire 〈◊〉 a testimony of great weight against hereticks ; and so 't is ●●ed by s. hierom also , l. . dial . cont . pelag. in this epistle the question being proposed by fidus , whether infants might be baptized the second or third day , or whether as in circumcision the eighth day were not to be expected , he answers in the name of the councel , universi judicavimus , 't was the resolution or sentence of all , nulli hominum nato misericordiam dei & gratiam denigandam , that the mercy and grace of god was not to be denied to any human birth , to any child , though never so young ( by that phrase [ mercy and grace of god ] evidently meaning baptism , the right of conveying them to the baptized ) adding , that 't is not to be thought that this grace which is given to the baptized , is given to them in a greater or less degree in respect of the age of the receivers ; and that god as he accepts not the person , so nor the age of any , confirming this by the words of s. peter act. . that none was to be called common or unclean , and that if any were to be kep● from baptism , it should rather be those of full age , who have committed the greater sins , and that seeing men when they come to the faith are not prohibited baptism , how much more ought not the infant to be forbidden , who being new born , hath no sin upon him , but that which by his birth from adam he hath contracted as soon as he was born , who therefore should more easily bee admitted to pardon , because they are not his own but others sins which are then remitted to him , concluding that as none were by the decree of that councel to be refused baptism , so this was the rather to be observed , and retained about infants and new-born children . thus much and more was the sentence of that ancient father , and that councel , and as the occasion of that determination was not any antipaedobaptist doctrine ( there had no such then so much as lookt into the church , that we can hear of ) but a conceit of one , that it should be deferr'd to the eigth day , which was as much infancy as the first ( and so both parties were e●ually contrary to the anti●aedobaptists interests , the condemned , as well as the judges ) so that it is no new doctrine that was then decreed , or peculiar to s. cyprian ( who had one singular opinion in the matter of baptism ) appears also by the concurrence of the whole councel that convened with him , and by the express words of st. august . ep. . ad hieronym . blessed cyprian not making any new decree , but keeping the faith of the church most firm , decreed with a set number of his fellow bishops , that a child new born might fitly be baptized . which shews it the resolution of that father also , that baptizing of infants was the faith of the church before cyprians time , not onely the opinion , but the ●aith , which gives it the authority of christ and his apostles . answ. i have been willing to set down these words at large sith none urgeth this authority more fully , though mr. m. dr. h. mr. b , &c. do all alledge it , and it is the chiefest of all the testimonies augustin produced for infant baptism , and therefore was translated by me into english , and printed at the end of my praecursor . concerning which act , mr. b. praefest . mor. p. . saith thus , it seems to me god ordered mr. t. to translate cyprians epistle to the disgrace of his cause with the vulgar themselves . for none can be so blinde as not to see in it the antiquity of infant baptism , which is all that we urge it for . but if the cause i maintain be disgraced by translating that epistle , i shall take it as a sign that a spirit of dotage is faln on men , so as to be enamouted on the blemishes of the ancient : sure me thinks none of the vulgar , much less the learned , should be so blinde as not to discern , that infant baptism was an errour , which was maintained by the prime assertors , upon such vain reasons as are in that epistle , which are not excused by what mr. b. saith , that the arguments are onely for confutation of the objection concerning infants uncleanness before the eighth day , and not to give the grounds that warranted infant baptism ; for the truth is , both are done together , and the best grounds they had for it are set down by them , which will appear to be so frivolous by examination of them , that notwithstanding all the credit dr. hammond endeavours to gain to it , yet men of mean understandings , i doubt not , will by reading of it discern how ill that councel did in that determination . nor doth it any whit be●ter the matter to say , that it was not cyprian alone , but also a whole councel of bishops which did thus agree with him . for in like manner did the same cyprian , with a more famous councel [ see epist. to jubaia . ponep . quir. janu. steph. ] at the same place , determine the rebaptizing of the baptized by hereticks , with better shew of scripture and reason then in his epistle to fidus , and alledged apostolical authority as much as in this , and yet he is deserted therein not onely by the bishops of rome that were then , but also by augustin , and the african , and other churches . besides his maintaining the perfusion of the clinici , in his epistle to magnus l. . epist. . his maintaining the necessity of water with the wine in the lords supper , as the lords tradition , l. . epist. . ad caecilium , with other things , do sufficiently discover the weakness of cyprian , and the bishops of those times in their determinations , and the slightiness of their reasons , which no intelligent divine should now urge , and therefore me thinks should not adhere to their practise or tenents , grounded on such frivolous reasons . nor in this matter is augustins or hieroms authority such , as that we should relye upon their approbations and speeches , their corruptions in this point , and in other points shewing their mistakes both in matters of doctrine , and fact , some whereof are before noted section . and more will bee in that which followes . as for what mr. b. saith , that the antiquity of infant baptisme is all that he with others urge cyprian for , i reply , he and others need not to have done that , sith i acknowledge it to have been as ancient as cyprian , not as it is now ; but . in the practise , used onely in case of imagined necessity , to save an infant in apparent danger of imminent death from perishing , as the words of tertullian de bapt . c. . and greg. nazianz. orat . . de sanct . bapt . and sundry relations shew to have been the practise . now in this if pro●estant divines have rejected antiquity , and deny such infant baptism as they practised , determining that there is not such a necessity of baptizing infants for that reason , nor that they are to be baptized with private baptism upon such a fear , and accordingly declining it as superstitious , they thereby justifie us from their crimination of innovation in deserting the fathers , when they themselves do it in the same thing as well as we . and if mr. baxter ( as hee doth plain script . proof . l. . c. . p. . ) except against tertullians reasons as poor , and therefore reject his advice , why should not we reject cyprians and his collegues determination , which was built on as poor , if not poorer reasons then tertullians . . in the doctrines taught : for they taught , that by baptism the grace and mercy of god was given , that without baptism infants must perish , that every one that is born of mankind is to be baptized , in which mr. baxter and other protestants do dissert them : now if they disclaim their doctrine in that which led them to their infant baptism , we have no reason to be bound to their authority . nor is the doctrine the least matter to be considered , or the reasons of their determination impertinent to a right judgement of their practise . for as in other controversies between us and papists , as about menkish profession , lent fast , prayer for the dead , &c. the main thing considered , is , how far the ancients practised these , and upon what grounds , as may be seen in ushers answer to the jesuites challenge , and other learned protestants writings , so it is in this : by whieh we may discern , that the fathers practise of infant baptism was upon the same grounds with those of the papists , which we reject ; and therefore the fathers testimonies do indeed disgrace the cause of infant baptism , and plainly shew upon what erroneous opinions it came in ; and if prejudice did not dazle their eys , learned and godly protestants would rather suspect and judge infant baptism a corruption , then alledge their determination for their justification . and for what is alledged , that august . ep. . ad hierony . said , that cyprian did not make any new decree , but kept the faith of the church most firm , it is manifest , that the faith augustine means was that infants had original sin , and without baptism must perish , which in like manner he taught about the lords supper ( which was given to infants in cyprians time , as his sermon de lapsis shews ) l. . de pecc . merit . & remis . c. . l. . adv . julian . c. . contra epist. pelag. l. . c ▪ . now as we and the romanists have rejected infant communion , though as ancient as infant baptism , or very near as ancient , so should infant baptism be rejected as upon the like mistake brought into the church . the like might be said of the exorcising , or exuffiation , that is , blowing away or puffing out the devil , of which augustine speaks so much as used with baptism to infants , the anointing with oyl , giving milk and honey , cloathing with white garments mentioned by tertullian as common in his time before cyprian , which yet are left by us notwithstanding he make them in his l. . against marcion , lib. de corona militis , apostolical traditions . out of which and many more instances this may bee collected , that the fathers testimony of the use of their time , or of apostolical traditions , is not to be received without examining their reasons , to which in this thing how little credit or heed is to be given , will appear by the exceptions i have made in my examen , and shall now vindicate from what mr. ms. friend , and dr. homes say to them . the first was , that in tertullians time infant baptism was not defined , sith he disswades it , de bapt. c. . scult . med . patr . part . l. . c. . tertullianus l ▪ de bapt. ●os duntaxat baptizandos censet , qui christum nosse potuerunt . the answers are , . that he was for infant baptism , as appears by his book de anima , c. . but this is refelled before . . that he mentions it as then in use . ref. it is true , but not allowed . . that he allowed it in case of necessity . ref. this is against those that deny the use of it for that reason in that case . . that he disswaded onely the baptism of infants of infidels , sith they onely were in need of sureties , and likely to sail in answering the engagement for them . ref. this is not likely . . it●s not likely such were brought in the times of persecution , nor that there were any christians who would become sureties for them . . it was usual then , as the custome hath been since , to have sureties at baptism of infan●s of believers , and also at the baptism of the aged , as is gathered out of tertul. de corona militis , inde suscepti , which is spoken of the ●ged . . the words of tertullian shew he argued a●ainst the baptism of any little ones in respect of their age . . his reasons ( be they what they will ) ●re agai●st the baptism of any little ones , wi●h express direction for them to come not till they were of age to understand ▪ venient ergo dum adol●scunt , veniant dum discunt , dum quo veniant docentur , fi●nt christiani , cum christum nosse pot●erint . that is , let them come t●erefore when they be grown up , let them come when they learn , when they are taught wherefore they come , let them he made christians when they shall be able to know christ. which makes it certain he meant this even of believers infants , whom he presumed would be taught to know christ , and that an●i●adobaptist doctrine had then lookt into the church , though dr. hammond say otherwise . ●he ●d . exception was , ●ugustines and hieroms relying on this councel , shewed their darkness . answ. mr. m. p. . of his defence ▪ though augustine approved cyprians judgement , yet he relied not u●on his reasons to make good infant baptism ; this to him is no new doctrine , he had another eye upon the constant and sure faith of the church , which in that point be followed faithfully . ref. it appears by the words of augustine , ep . . ad hieron●m . where he alledgeth this very thing for infant baptism [ that cyprian said not that the flesh ▪ but the soul unbaptized should be lost ] that he relied on his rea●ons ; and the like is apparent , where he and hierome set down his words , and argue from them ▪ tom . . l. . de pecc . mer. & remis . c contra julian . l. . c. where augustine hath these words , sed cyprianus dicit peri●e parvulum nisi fuerit baptiza●us , quam vis ei non propria demittantur , sed ●liena pec●ata . but cyprian saith , a little one perisheth unless he be baptized , although not his own but anothers sins are forgiven him . my d. excep●ion was , that fidus started the question out of a judaizing conceit , that the law of circumcision which was not to be till the ●th day , was to be considered , and that the footstep of an infant being in the first days of his birth is not clean ; which shew a relique of judaism in him . to this it is said , . that cyprian did not concur with him , nor the councel . refut . . however it appears that the baptism of infants was then practised upon the superstitious conceit as if we were to do in baptism as the jews did in circumcision . . nor doth cyprian appear by hi● ep. . l. . and elsewhere to be free from thinking the ceremonial law to direct us about baptism . . that other learned men , as athanasius , nazianz. august . chrysostome , reasoned from circumcision to baptism . refut . no doubt of it , for as in the controversie about easter , so in other things they appeared too much to imitate the jewish ceremonies , by which the simplicity of the christian service was altered . my th . exception was , that the resolution of this counc●l was the spring-head of infant baptism . answ. before that time baptism of infants was in use . refut . yet it was not determined before , but disswaded , nor was any authority of any councel which was as a spring head to it , whence it continued a stream afore that , nor doth augustine in his allegati●ns for it , find any higher spring of it then cyprian and his councel ▪ my th ▪ and chief exception was , t●at the councel determined the baptizing of infants upon these errours , which are now rejected by protestants as popish ; . that they thought baptizing giving gods grace , and the denying it denying gods grace ; . they thought the souls to be lost , which were not baptized ; . that therefore not onely infants of believers , but all infants were to be baptized . mr. m. acknowledgeth the two first to be rightly gathered from the words of the epistle , but that he also urged that baptism comes in stead of circumcision , and if some arguments were used by the ancients which were not good , the truth is not to be rejected , when some o●her are . ref. . the council determined infant baptism on no other argument . . if infant baptism could be proved by other arguments , i should yeeld to it ; however the credit and authority of this councel is taken away by reason of the falshood of the grounds of their determination . ly . for the d. inference , though he lays it down in general terms , that none are to be hindered from comming to christ : yet what he saith ought to be understood of the church , because he speaks of such as god hath cleansed or purified who were common . ref. . the words are as express as may be , we all judged that the mercy and grace of god is to be denied , ( by not baptizing them ) nulli hominum nato , to none born of men , as much as in us lies , if it may be , nulla anima pe●denda est , no soul is to be lost for want of baptism . . the very words mr. m alledgeth for a restriction to the church are against it , they are thus . sed putamus omnem omnino hominem admittendum ad gratiam christi , cum & petrus in actibus apostolorum loquatur & dicat : dominus mihi dixit neminem communem dicendum & immundum . but we think every man altogether should be admitted to the grace of christ , when peter also in the acts of the apostles speaks and saith , the lord hath said to me that no man should be termed common and unclean : which is meant of all men , not onely of the church . and this enough to answer dr. homes , who in his animadversions , p. . finds not that passage in cyprian , which i alledge , and p. . saith , cyprian doth not say , infants perish if they be not baptized , though augustine expresly saith the contrary , and p. ● . takes on him to defend the sayings of that councel , as having no errour or hurt to say that baptism gives grace instrumentally , and that without warrant wittingly to deny baptism is to deny gods grace . but protestant write●s generally ( as austin before ) judge the words to have a further sense , and the words of the epistle plainly shew that they held by the very baptism infants had remission of sin and were saved , and without it were lost , and to deny them baptism was to deny them gods grace . that which he saith of me , ● , . that i would not have it , that cyprian doth at all put in original sin among his arguments for baptizing of infants , is not true ; i onely denyed that he put it in , in the manner mr. m. conceived . what i said of the absurdity and nakedness of that epistle , hath no more immodesty then is common to writers protestant and papists , who charge fathers and ancient councels with errours , blemishes , and of● times with harder censures ; if i had given that epistle a ●arter censu●e i had done right , that i spake was soft enough , considering the great hurt which hath come to the church of god by that epistle , which determined childrens baptism by childish reasons . next to cyprian of the latine fathers , are recited ambrose and hierome ▪ and paulinus by dr. hammond , whose words with augustines , and such councels as were in their times in the th . and th . century , i shall forbear to reci●e , it being acknowledged that in those ages it was practised , and by reason of augustines esteem baptism of infants was practised in following ages almost without controul ; and in process of time , that which was before augustines dayes a rarity , became so frequent , as that it almost swallowed up the right bap●ism , which appears from the words of walafridus strabo , placed by usher at the year . in his book de rebus ecclesiasticis , c. . who is termed by mr. george gillespie in his aarons rod blossoming , p. . a diligent searcher of the ancients which were before him , and of the old ecclesiastical rites , which with other observations tending to reduce the testimony of augustine to its just weight , are set down in my examen , par . . sect . . and are now to be vindicated by me from what mr. marshal and others reply . dr. homes , p. ● . excepts against what i said , that it was augustines authority that carried infants baptism in the following ages almost without control ; and . he asks , what carried it . or . years before ? for all that time it was frequent . ] but this is not true , n●r ever proved by dr. homes . chamier , paustr. cath . tom . . l. . c. . § . . saith truly , who seeth not that the custome of the scrutiny of the baptised was in that time , when scarce the thousandth person was baptised afore he came to age , and was diligently exercised in catechism . dr. hammond in his pract . catech. l. ● . § . . p. . all men were instructed in the fundamentals of faith anciently before they were permitted to be baptised . . ●hey that were carried by augustine , were not carried by the authority of the man , but by the scriptures and reasons he urged . which i grant ; but those scriptures and reasons had never carried infant baptism , if the name of the man had not been more prevalent then his reasons . . it cannot be said that augustines authority did in his time carry infant baptism in a manner without control , seeing he had so much bickering with the pelagians about it , who under some notion did con-against it , as we shewed before . ] but by his leave it might be so said , and that truly , ●ith in the bickerings against the pelagians , augustines authority grew ; yea , hierome in the end of his d. dialogue against pelagians , in the words cited by dr. home● . p. . doth himself refer the reader to augustines works about baptizing infants , as the chief prop of that custome . however , that which i said is manifestly true , that after his time , in the following ages , augustines authority carried the baptism of infants almost without control . dr. homes further excepts against my alledging walafridus strabo , and saith , . strabo is against me , . in saying in the first times , baptism was wont to be confirmed by imposition of hands . but the dr. wrongs me i● saying i deny it exercit. sect . . who onely say it was a part or appendix of baptism , as chamier said paustr. cath . tom . . l. . c. . sect &c. not as among the papists or prelatists used many years after baptism . but of this enough is said review part . . sect . . . about athanasius , that in athanasius his time , to his knowledge there was baptism of little children . but how is this against mee , who doubted not concerning athanasius his fact of imitating baptizing when he was a boy , and of alexander his approb●tion of it , but said i marvailed i found nothing produced out o● athanasius works for infant baptism , if it were so manifest as mr. m. said . now this was not in athanasius his works , and the story doth not at all prove infant baptism either in use or approved then , but rather the contrary . for that fact was done by athanasius at play , among boyes at play , and it was approved as baptism , because the baptizer and the baptized used the ordinary actions done at baptism of the aged : which shews that baptism was then used to and by persons of age , though imitated by boyes at play . . about infant baptism , for which strabo quotes many ▪ authorities and antiquities , as of the concilium gerundense ; but this is not against me , who deny not , but acknowledge many councils for it , after and in augustins time , but know of none but that of carthage in cyprians epistle to fidus afore , and do judg those councils weigh no more then one augustin , whose authority they relied on , and some of them used his very words in their canons . . that strabo faulters , and is much faulty in the thing he is quoted for . for first , he calls the times of augustine , who is but of late in comparison of many ancients we have quoted prima tempora , that is , the first times , for walafridus quotes augustines practise , that was not baptized till of ripe years , to prove , that in the first times ( as walafridus calls them ) men were not baptized till able to know well , and make profession ; when as augustin himself , as we have shewed , and mr. t. hath confessed , did refer himself to ancienter times a great deal , as to cyprian that was almost yeares afore him , for the practise of baptizing infants . . walafrid saith , illis solummodo , &c. that is , to them onely the grace of baptism was wont to bee given , who were of integrity or ripeness of body and minde , &c. but gives not proofs or reasons , but onely one single instance of augustine himself for an universal proposition . answ. it appears not that strabo faultered in either of these . he cals the times unto augustine , not onely augustines times , prima t●mpora , the first times ; and though he knew that cyprian was alledged by augustine for proof of infant baptism , yet strabo might rightly say ( not as dr. homes makes him , men were not baptized ( but ) the grace of baptism was wont to be given to them onely who might know well and make profession . and for this having set down the ancient custome , he alledgeth the instance of augustin , not because there were no more , but at that time the thing being well known , and augustines authority being the chief meanes of making infant baptism so frequent as it was after his time , it was enough for his purpose to instance in augustines own example , as sufficient to shew how the state of things was before . nor is it likely that walafridus strabo faultered in the third thing the dr. objects , but that ( not he , but ) some of the writers of his book mistook , and put xxv . for xxxv . and for the th . thing that hee confesseth , that religious wise men did baptize infants more frequently after augustines time , upon the apprehension of danger if they neglected it , it confirms my observation , that infant baptism grew to be so frequent as it was by augustines authority , but doth not at all prejudice my allegation of strabo , for though he being corrupted with the superstition of the age in which he lived , did judge well of the practise of infant baptism , yet his relation of the ancient use is usefull for me to shew , that it was but an innovation nor did my mention of his relation of the use of gossips , and the imagined spiritual kinred contracted by it , either blemish walafridus or break my shins , but served my turn to shew what superstition crept in by infant baptism , as arising from the want of the primitive use of the baptized persons own engagement at baptism , which being not done by infants , was supplied by this vain invention of men , and did ( as generally such inventions do ) occasion that evil opinion of the spiritual kinred contracted , which superstition turned to a conceit of inc●st between gossips . this opinion , though it did not necessarily follow on that us● ( for there might be gossips without such opinion , as there might be transubstantiation without adoration ) yet as the nature of superstition is to adde one humane invention to another , and the la●ter worse then the former , and the just judgement of god leaves men to err , when their fear of him is taught by the precepts of men , isa. . , . ( as i have shewed in my sermon intituled , the leven of pharisaical will●worship ) so it happened both in baptism and the eucharist , infant baptism brought in gossips , they were taken for parents , thence conceived to be of such affinity , that their copulation would be incestuous , and so in the eucharist the opinion of the lords supper , as if christs body were in the bread , begat transubstan●iation , that kneeling and adoration , which have more connexion then a rope of sand or pebles in a wyth , notwithstanding dr. homes his conceit , and stra●o's words need better answer then he gives . all that dr. homes p. , , , , . saith against my allegation of cluniacensis , doth not either prove , that peter de bruis did not deny infant baptism , or that cluniacensis did not alledge augustine for it , and de bruis rejected it , and appealed to the scriptures ( though i have acknowledged in my apology sect . . my mistake about the words of the ignorance of greek , and the mention of the greek church and the council of arles . ) for why should cluniacensis say , ecce non de augustino sed de evangelio protuli cui cum maxime vos credere dicatis , &c. but that augustine was wont to be urged against them , but they rejected him and appealed to the gospel . as for peter de bruis and henricus , their opinions i set them down as i found them reckoned in the argument of cluniacensis epistle , not thinking fit to set down all that cluniacensis chargeth them wi●h , having by mr. gatakers defence of mr. wotto● against mr. walker concerning abailardus , learnt how uncertain bernards charge was against him ; and the like perhaps against peter de ●ruis and henricus by cluniacensis in some things : yet i have given reasons concerning their denying infant baptism , in my praecursor sect . . to which mr. baxter hath no made reply in his praefestin . mor. to avoid them , though he had most unchristianly accused me of impudence and unconscionableness , for alledging them as adve●saries to infant baptism . what i said of the councils that condemned palagiani●m , and the drs. who refuted it , that they followed augustin , i did in some mistake , as in putting arles for orange a city near , and perhaps in something else , being at that time without all my ptinted books , which i had read before the year . in which i was plundered of them , and wrote my examen in london anno . and my exorcitation anno . but i had some remembrance of my reading to that purpose , which i imagin was by rea●ing the words of dr. ●rideaux in his d. lecture de gratia universali , which are thus to the same effect . augustinus ( qui praecipuè sudabit in hoc argumento , quomq●e prosper , fulgentius , & scholastici saniores sequuntur , imò ex ejus scriptis decreta concilii aransicani contra pelagianos & semipelagianos ( ut ipse agnoscit binnius ) cont●xuntur ) sit vice omnium . and for augustins being counted one of the four doctors of the church , esteemed like the four evangelists , the speech ( as i remember of gregory the great ) is so rife , that i presume it unknown to few students in divinity nevertheless i said , i for my part value augustines judgement just at so much as his proofs and reasons weigh ; of which dr. homes saith , that 's well ; but mr. marshal saith , i slight him , which is an unjust crimination of me , neither augustin nor any other writer , being not imediately inspired , requiring or deserving any higher regard ; and protestant writers frequently in their determinations ascribe authentique authority onely to the holy scripture , ames bellarm. enerv . tom . l. . c. . asser●tur ● nobis episcoporum in concilio sententiam tant●m inquisitionem quandam esse , & dictionem sententiae ministratoriam & limitatam ita ut tant●m valeat decretum concilii , quantùm valeat ejus ratio ; which if right , my speech is unblameable . nor am i to be blamed for not canvassing every particular testimony alledged out of augustine , it being not denied he held infant baptism at that time , and in such a manner as protestants reject , and how much credit is to bee given to his speeches of apostolical tradition , is considered before section . protestant writers do often charge augustin with doting , in this point of infant baptisms necessity ( whereof some speeches may be seen in mr. gataker de bapt . infant . vi & eff●c . sect . . num . . sect . ● . num . . ) and for my part i must say , that i judge his reasons so light and his proofs so vain , that the testimonies out of augustine do very much confirm me , that infant baptism is an errour , and a very pernicious abuse needfull to be taken away out of the church of god , the reason of which may in some measure appear by my vindication of my exceptions against augustines judgement . . if infant baptism had been such an universal and apostolical tradition as augustine would have it , then the church would have thought it necessary , that all children of christians by profession should bee baptized in their infancy , and the custome would have been so used ; but that it was not so , appears first from the baptism of augustine , adeodatus , alipius ; second , from other observations set down in my examen . p. . the testimonies mr. m. brings for universal practise , have been considered before . hee adds p. . of his defence , that epiphanius in the end of his work , relating what was generally observed in the church , tels us , the baptism administred in the church in his time , was performed according to the tradition of the gospel , and the authority of the apostles , as well as other mysteries then in use , and we know , that in his time baptism was administred to infants ; therefore in his judgement , what the church did therein , they had authority for it from the gospel and the apostles ; ] but there is more reason to conceive that either he knew no infant baptism , or that he took it to be an aberration from the gospel tradition and authority of the apostles , not onely in that he mentions not infant baptism , but also in ancorato where he sets down the use of baptism he saith , yee ought not onely to suffer every one instructed in the faith , and willing to come to the holy laver , that he shew himself to your sons that he believes in the lord , but also , that with uttered words , as the same mother of all your and our church hath received , he teach and say , i believe in one god the father almighty , &c. ] whence the magdeburgenses cent . . c. . de ritibus circa baptismum , say ; it is conjectured from these words , that in the churches of cyprus , the rite of confession was usual afore baptism ; where he also saith , that basil. exhort . ad bapt . writes , that no other then catechized persons were baptized , who were called together at easter ; although i deny not that there was sometimes infant baptism , yet by all the instances of the rite of baptism gathered by those historians in that place , it appears to have been very rare , and onely in the case of apparent peril of immanent death . and this is very probable to have been the reason why socrates hist. l. . . relating diversities of several churches about persons that had power to baptize , and the time in which baptism was commonly administred , and sozom. ▪ . several customes of several churches neither exclude nor mention infant ●aptism , because it was so rare a thing to baptize an infant , and done so obscurely that no instance is apparent of it in any history , in that or the fore●going ●ges . and dr. homes p. . wrongs me in saying , mr. t. himself chargeth augustin and cyprian , that they thought too many infants were to be baptized , namely all that had christian parents or undertakers , for these latter words are not mine , though i yeeld the former to be true . to my instance of augustins lat● baptism , it is said by mr. m. defence p. . one swallow makes not a spring peradventure some ( though born of christian parents ) were not in that age baptized in infancy ; yet that is no way prejudicial to the universal practise of the church in which paedobaptism was received . but by his leave it is a great evidence , and seemed so to strabo nearer to those times then we are , that infant baptism was not so univer●al as mr. m. makes it , when so ●minent a person of so eminently go●ly a mother , did not take care to have him baptized in infancy . but besides , wee have the words of optatus m●l●vitanus about the same ti●e , in his th . b●ok against ●armenian the donatist , thu● ; no man is ignorant that every man , who is born though he be born of christian parents , can be without the spirit of the world ; which it is necessary should be excluded and separated from the man before the saving baptism . this exorsim does , by which the unclean ●●irit is driven out , and made to flye into desert ●laces . the ●ouse is made empty in the breast of the believer ; the house is made clean : god enters and dwels as the ●postle saith , ye are the temple of god , and god dwel● in you . whence it is apparent , that even those who were born of christian parents were believers afore they were baptized , though i deny not that it was not the common doctrine , that infants should be baptized ; nor do i make that inference which mr m. intima●es i do , from that example of augustin , that children of christians by profession in that age were not baptized in their infancy , but that they were seldome so , nor except in case of appa●ent danger of imminent dea●h : which is manifest by the instance of augustin . mr. m. and dr. homes impute the delay of augustins ba●●ism , either to his fathers hindering , who was not then a christian , or to friends permission of him to have his own will , or to persecution . but all these are but mere shifts , his own words con●es . l . c. . declaring the true state of the thing , whic● are thus : i had heard being a boy , of eternal life promised us by the humility of our lord god descending to our p●ide , and i was already signed with the signe of his cross , and was s●asoned with his salt already , even from the womb of my mother , who much hoped in thee . whence it is apparent that she was then a christian when she bare him in her womb , and dedicated him to christianity , but did not baptize him . after he goes on , and saith , thou sawest lord when i was yet a boy and on a certain day pressed with a pain of the stomack , i was suddenly sick almost about to dye , thou sawest my god , because thou wast my keeper already , with what motion of minde , and with what faith i asked from the piety of my mother , and thy church the mo●her of us all , the baptism of thy christ my god and lord. and the m●ther of my flesh was troubled , because also she did bring forth my everlasting salvation with a chast heart in thy faith , now being very hasty , did take care that i might be initiated and washed with saving sacraments , confessing thee o lord jesus , unless i had been presently recreated . therefore my cleansing was delayed , as if it should bee necessary that i should be defiled if i did live , because to wit , after that washing , greater and more dangerous guilt of sins in filthiness would be . so i did already believe , and she , and all the house except my father alone , who yet did not overcome in me the right of my mothers piety , that i should not believe in christ ; as he had not yet believed . whence it may be easily perceived , . that the childe of a godly affectionate christian , who devoted him to christ , and educated him for christ , yet was not baptized then in infancy , nor by the church re●uired to be bap●ized . . that when he was sick and like to die when hee was but a boy , he earnestly required from his mother and the church baptism . . that it was not to have been done without his confession of christ. . that his recovery afore it could be done put it off , and no other reason was thereof , but that living he was likely to be more guilty of sin if baptized so young . . that baptism was counted cleansing , and a greater and more dangerous guilt apprehended if he did sin after baptism . . that even then he did believe ▪ and his mother and all the house excep● his father , and yet it hindred not his christianity , not is it l●kely could or would hinder his bap●ism in infancy , if his mother and the church had thought it meet , or it had been the use out of the case of apparent danger of imminent death . as for adeod●tus , it is apparent his father believed before he begate him , and he was br●d up by him in gods discipline , as he saith , l. . confes . c. . and though the father was not baptized , yet the grandmother was , and yet adeodatus was not baptized till years old ; and for alipius it is somewhat p●obable hee was born of christian parentage and bred up so , but not baptized till of age . however that were , the case of augustin is full to prove what i conc●ived . for a further declaration of the practise of infant baptism , i alledged grotius his words , who conceived the baptism of infants more frequent in africa then in asia or other parts of the world , and he gave his reason of it , because of the mention of it in the african council at carthage , not in like manner in other councils , to which mr. m. saith , the councils might not mention it , because none did scruple it ; but it is more likely none did scruple i● , because there was no occasion to do so , there being little or no practise of it ; which is made very probable from the th . canon of the council of neocaesarea anno . and the words of nazianzen before mentioned . as for the constitutions of clement , in one whereof they are bid baptize their little ones , mr. m. doth well to confess they are not clements , and if the compiler of them did relate the ancient customes of the greek church , hee did relate later customes also , among which that of baptizing infants is to bee conceived one for the reasons given . grotius annot . in matth. . . saith , and many of the greeks from every age unto this day , keep the use of deferring the baptism of little ones , till they could make confession of their own faith . but of this before , sect . . . i said that i did not find in affrica infants baptized but in case of danger of death or for health of body . dr. homes saith he hath shewed the contrary out of several antiquities , and particularly out of cyprian . but neither in cyprian nor any where else do i find it but the the contrary in tertullian . and as for augustine it was not as he ●aith , that augustines sickness whiles young was some occasion of deferring his baptism for that time , but his sickness occasioned the hastning and his recovery ere it was done put it off for that time . nor doth m● saying that they baptized infants for health of body ( which is manifest from augustines d . epist. to bonifacius ) clash with that which i said of augustines asserting the necessity of infant baptism to take away original sin , and ascribing salvation to it , for he both might and did conceive it to be done for both ends . my mention of the continued use of catechizing in augustines time ▪ and long after , and the mention of baptizing whole countries upon the baptizing of their kings was very pertinent , though not to shew no infants were baptized then , yet to shew how and by what means the ancient custome of baptizing ordinary believers upon profession of faith after catechizing was so strangely changed , that whereas the preface in the common prayer book before the administration of baptism saith , it appeareth by ancient writers that the sacrament of baptism in the old time was not commonly administered but at two times in the year , at easter and whitsontide : at which times it was openly ministered in the pre●ence of all the congregation , the persons to be baptized having been before catechized , now it is quite otherwise , so that in most protestant and popish ▪ countries baptism is ordinary even of inf●nts , at all times in obscure manner , and except of late in these nations , in which god hath begun to restore the right use of baptism , and what bellarmin in his d . book de bonis operibus in particular● . c. . saith , that in the city of rome there is no year in which there are not many baptized at easter , who were catechised , the baptizing of believers is almost unheard of and counted a hainous thing , and punished in some parts as a crime deserving death or banishment . so great is the enormity of paedobaptism , and so great the wickedness of paedobaptists . the d . and main exception i took against augustines judgement which might move us to examine his reasons , was the ground upon which augustine , ambrose , and generally the popish paedobaptists held and urged infant baptism , to wit the damning of the infant if dying unbaptized , which made augustine to be termed the hard father of infants , and affrighted so people in after ages , and doth to this day , that they will have their children by all means , as they count it , baptized , it 's no matter by whom it be done nor how , so somewhat be done ; else they count them lost . to this which is of so great moment to shew the abuse of paedobaptism it is said , that augustine pressed it upon other grounds , but that doth not appear , he urged it , it is true , from circumcision , but upon the same ground that the uncircumcised male should be cut off from gods people ; nor did ●e so retract his errour , but that he still held infants should be damned although with the mildest damnation of all . how the schoolmen and others do follow augustine , mr. perkins shews in his probleme , and many elsewhere , and the common prayer , both in allowing at first baptism by midwives , and in their preface in the administration of publique baptism do plainly shew it was the mind of the composers of that book at first ; no● is there any thing therein , or any of the ancients , o● baptism as belonging to infant● of believers as federally holy . which is a strong evidence that augustines judgement was very corrupt in this point , and that the baptism of infants was introduced , and grew to such an excess upon that errour , and for that reason both augustines judgement and it are to be suspected as evil , and to be rejected . a d. exception against augustines judgement , to shew that he and cyprian were in these points of sacraments not to be rest●d on , was ▪ that augustine epist. . relates the story in cyprian de lapsis about the giving the wine to a girl with credit to it , and some use of it without dislike of the custome ; yea , l. . de p●cc . mer ▪ & remis . c he makes giving infants the eucharist necessary to salvation , alledging jo● . . . for it ; and ch . . he makes it an ancient and apostolick tradition to give the communion to infants , besides what he saith epis. . ● . to the like p●rpose , and he ascribes to john chrysostome , l. . adv . ju● c. , the like ; and e●is . . innocentius bishop of rome held the like ; and this not onely maldonat on joh. . acknowledged to continue . years in the church , from cyprians time to charls the greats time ( as ● remember the account is ) but also erasmus resp ad arch●ep hisp. chamier , paus . cath . tom . . l. . c. . § . . gataker de bapt. infant . vi . p. . say the use of infant communion was ancient ; and to the objection , that this was not defined , dr. john rainold , apolog , thes . § . . answers ; nor doth mr. m. or dr. homes deny it , but mr. m. asks what is your argument hence ? i answer , there is no reason to rely on augu●tines judgement concerning the antiquity and necessity of infant baptism , or to press it on others , who did so fouly mistake about the antiqui●y and necessity of giving the communion to infants , nor to adhere to the ancients determinations and use about infant baptism , who did erre so much about infant communion . for as mr. gataker de bapt. in s vi . p. . saith about augustins authority conce●ning infant baptism , it will not seem equal to press the adverse party concerning the other authority of those whose judgement in the other thy self declinest : but how augustine doted about infant communion is manifest , therefore it is not reason to urge his testimony about infant baptism as to be rested on , but we may say as vorstius adv . bellarm. tom . . contr . . thes . . rat . . the doting of augustine and some other is ill brought for the consent of the whole church ; and we may make that use of this instance of augustines , innocentius , and others errour about infant communion , which cameron doth c. ● . of his examin . of rom. prejudices , to take away the unjust fore-judging of the refusal of infant baptism a● unreasonable , by shewing how little the fathers , particularly augustine , are to be trusted , and what just reason there is to forsake him in the one as they have done in the other . my th . exception was , that augustine . ascribes a certainty of regeneration to children baptiz●d , though they were not brought for spiritual grace , but temporal health . . that he justifies this fact , epist. . ad bonif. mr. m confesseth he ascribed too much sometimes to baptism , yet sometimes he saith of some , that they have the thing of baptism without the sacrament , and so ambrose of valentinian , yet ambrose as well a● augustine at other times attributed too much to outward baptism . to which i reply . it is true , and so did generally the fathers , as may be seen abundantly in mr. gatakers strictures against bishop davenants epist p , &c. and this caused great abuses , . the allowing of infant baptism , yea , and much advancing it ; . the allowing of the baptism of men that kept their beds by reason of sickness on their beds ; . the baptism by wom●n ; . the baptism by athanasius on his play●fellows , which he did in pl●y with them , when but a boy , as sufficicently done for baptism ; . the bringing of infants to be baptized for cure of their bodies . but saith dr. homes , by all the words epist. . ad bonifac. i should think augustine doth no way justifie or excuse their bad intention . ] to which i reply , yet he justifies their bad action , saying , by them the necessary service or ministery is celebrated . my th . exception was , ●hat augustin ep. . ad bonif. was so tenacious of customes then in use , that he doth defend or excuse from lying the answer of sureties , as if the child to be baptized did believe . in this mr. m. saith , i scorn augustines judgement ; and i reply , i do not so much as chamier , paustr. cath . tom . . l . c. . § . . where he ter●s it mimical ▪ as if it were a play on a stage , rather then the celebrating a sacrament in the church , which augustine defended . but saith d● . homes , this is impertinent to the question . i reply , it is very pertinent , . to shew how vain augustines judgement was in these things about baptism and the lords supper : . to shew what was the primi●ive use of propounding the question of his faith to every baptized person , which vives , com . in august . de civit. dei , l. . c● ● . thought a good evidence that of old none were baptized but persons grown up and able to answer the questions . ●o this saith dr. homes , . ●e wonder mr. t. will assert confession of faith in all ages before all baptism from witnesses or sureties , when as we know that the first intimation of touching them was not till about years after christ. and how novel the invention of their confessions is who can justly tell . i reply , . i wonder dr. homes will so untruly say i do so assert ▪ . if sureties were so late an invention , surely infant baptism was at new , it being never without such sureties . . saith he , i propound it to grave consideration , whether sureties did not confess in relation to themselve● , that they might be reputed fit to stand as a kind of parents to a child of an unbelieving parent to be baptized ; even as abrahams profession of his belief in god , gen. . gen. . made him stand as a parent to all his houshold . i reply . upon my consideration it was not so , because tertull. de 〈◊〉 . c. . mentions them as undertakers for the child , and bonifacius and augustine that they professed in the childs stead . my last exception against augustines judgement was , that they baptized any infants even of unbelievers , who ever brought them , and what ever were their intention , they counted it a work of charity , and the defect of the faith of the baptized they counted supplied by the faith of the whole church . to this saith mr. m. neither i in that justifie him : you may take notice that here again you confess the question that infants were baptized . ] i reply , this was not the question . but saith dr. homes , . ●oo much doth not overthrow enough . ] i reply , it overthrows the imitableness of their practise . . this argues against me that infant baptism hath been anciently more universally practised then adul● bap●ism . ] i reply , if so , more infidels children should be baptized then christian converts , which is a monstrous fiction refuted by all the remaining monuments of antiquity . mr. m. they baptized upon covenant holiness believers children , infidels children upon the engagement of undertakers to train them up . i reply , the former appears not , the later was of others as well as believers children , as is shewed before . this is enough to shew the invalidity of augustine and the latine fathers testimonies ●or infant baptism as protestants assert it . to the recollection of the passages about the ancients testimonies , mr. m. answers . . to what i said , that that they practised infant baptism on erroneous grounds , the necessity of it to salvation , the certainty of the remission of original sin by it , denying gods grace to none , and therefore more likely to be an errour ; mr. m. saith , p. . do not tertullian , cyprian , &c. argue from circumcision unto baptism 〈◊〉 we now do , and others of them from covenant holiness ? i answer , no not one that i know of . . to what i said , that it is not proved to have been practised but in case of supposed necessity , he saith , it is otherwise , and an arminian book termed censura censu●ae , of which i have made great use in this controversy ( which is not true ) saith , augustine first grounded infant baptism upon necessity . but i answer , this is not true , that which is said before out of tertullian , nazianzen , cyprian , proves it otherwi●e ; yea , long after augustine , concilium ge●undense in the th . century , appointed in the th . and th . canon , that ordinarily persons catechized not infirm should be baptized at easter and whitsontide , the infirm at other times , and infants if infirm , and desire not the mothers milk if they be offered , the day of their birth ; which expresseth it to be a permission in that case , and shews it to be an exception from the ordinary course : yea , magdeb. cent . ● . c. . of the rites of baptism , shew infants then to have been baptised onely out of fear of death . . to what i said , that there was a constant course of baptizing believers children at age , he saith i have been been mistaken , and this practise was disavowed by their inveighing against deferring ●aptism . i answer , . that i have not been mistaken , appears by that which goes before . . they speak not against deferring infants baptism , but for it , though they speak against the deferring it by the aged . . to what i said of their opinion of the necessity of , and practise of infant communion , he saith , all did not so , though some of the affricans did . i answer , the chiefest of them , and some of them europaeans held it . dr. field , d. book of the church , ch . . saith , according to the old custome used in the primitive church , the greeks minister the sacrament of the eucharist to children when they baptise them . and ortelius in his theat . where he describes the abissins in affrica , saith , to all the baptised the same moment they minister the holy eucharist . . ●o what ● said of their baptizing : infidels children , he saith , it was not their constant and general practise : but it app●ars not but that it was practi●ed and al●owed of as well as the other . . to my words , that the ancientest testimony for pr●ctise according to any rule determined is cyprian , near years after christ , he saith , he must needs take notice of my overlashing ; and i reply , ● must needs take notice of his overlashing in again mentioning justin mar●yr as a witness , though the book be but suppositio●s ; and irenaeus , when ●e saith nothing of it ; and origen ▪ who is d●ubtfull ; and tertullian who is against it ; and excepting against my words as overlashing , w●en the first determination of it in any councel was that of cyprian with hi● . bishops , which , as dr. hammond saith , was anno . near ● . years after christ. . to my words , that infant baptism was not from the beginning , austins semper habuit semper tenu●t is opposed , to which how little credit is to be given , is shewed apol. § . he●e , sect . ● . and in thi● before . . ●o my alledging the proposal of the questions of repentance and faith to infants as a sign that none but those who answered the ●u●stio●s were formerly baptized , it is said , this supposeth these questions to be of as ancient use in the church of god as baptism i●self , whi●h certainly you can never prove from scripture ; i have produced testimonies for infant baptism , afore any you can bring to witness , that those forms of questions and answers had any being in the church . but i think the question of faith pl●inly proved act ▪ . ● . to be an●ecedent to baptism ; and the words of beza , annot . on pet. . are thus ▪ yet to me more nearly now considering the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it doth se●m better to agree that we interpret it stipulation , and that we say the apostle had respect to the interrogations of catechists , in which the ca●echised even then did testifie their more inward baptism to be confirmed by the outward , as act. . . to which the whole apostolick creed looks , and that from the baptism of adult persons by a great errour , if we look to infants themselves , translated to the baptism of infants , doest thou believe ? i do believe . doest thou renounce ? i do renounce . whence that of tertullian , which is as if it were in stead of a commentary on this place in his book of the resurrection of the flesh , the soul is not confirmed or sanctified by washing , but by answering . tertullian de corona militis , aquam adituri ibidem , sed & aliquanto prius in ecclesia sub antis●itis manu contestamur nos renunciare dia●olo & pompae & angelis ejus ▪ dehinc ter inergitamur , amplius aliquid respondentes , quam dominus in evangelio determinavit . grot. in mat. . . proves the profession of faith out of justin martyr , who saith expresly , apol. . that the baptised did promise to ●●ve according to the christian doctrine ; and out of ●gnatius , irenaeus , tertullian , &c. what they answered who we●e baptise● . in the councel of basil in the oration of the cardinal of rag sium it is said , in principio hujus sacramenti baptizabantur solum illi qui per se sciebant fidem interroganti respondere ▪ the testimonies of this kind are so ●any that i think it superfluous to alledge them . the very form of common prayer in propounding th●se questions as they were in augustines time to infants , is evidence enough of the antiquity of that custome of propounding questions to the baptized . . to what i said of the examples of greg nazian chrysos . augus . const ▪ the great to whom i might have added hierome , of whom erasmus in his life testifies of his birth of christian parents , yet not baptized till of age ; mr. m. answers by referring to what is said before : and i intreat the reader to look back to what i say before , sect . , . and this . . in like manner the evidences against infant baptism from tertullians and gregory nazianzen , disswasion , the testimony of the councel of neocaesaria , the silence of eusebius , epiphanius , athanasius , the constant terming it an apostolical tradition , are referred to what is before said by mr. m. and by me to my answers to him and others , in those sections , and sect . . for grotius , what reason i had to alledge him , may be easily discerned by those that know his a●ilities censura censurae was unknown to me as yeelding me any advantage , 〈◊〉 mr. m. here minded me of that book . what vives speaks he had good evidence for , as in part may be seen in what is said before . strabo's testimony is such as vossius his exception doth not weaken , but is sundry ways confirmed here . that i could have brought more testimonies , it hath appea●ed in part by this writing , and in part by my praecusor , sect . and my answer to dr. savage in latine , sect . . the more i search i● to the point of antiquity , the more i am confirmed in my position , that infant baptism is not so ancient as is pretended , as now taught is a late innovation . nor am i alte●ed from the opinion i had , that none before zuinglius taught infant baptism as a priviledge of believers children from federal holiness . tertullians and athanasius his words serve not turn to prove it , nor epiphanius , cyprian , nazianzen , augustine , or chrysostome so taught it from circumcision as due to them by vertue of the covenant to a believer and his seed , but in other manner , as is before shewed . nor do●h the pelagians acknowledgement serve mr. ms. ●urn therein . the more testimonies mr. m. might have added , had added no more weight to the cause then those he alledged have done . i did not charge the ancients that they held that all who died unbaptised were damned ; but that in the case of infants born they taught , that if they died unbaptized they should not enter into the kingdome of heaven , but perish , or be damned , though with the mildest damnation : and this is manifest enough from cyprians epistle to fidus , and very many places of augustine , tertullian l. de bapt. c. . c●m verò prascribitur nemini sine baptismo compe●ere salutem ex illa maximè pronuntiatione domini qui ait : nisi natus ex aqua quis erit , non habet vitam , &c. however ambrose and augustine determine of the salvation of grown persons without baptism , if they believe , desire to be baptized , be martyrs , yet both they and many more held both baptism and the lords supper to be necessary for infants unto salvation by an apostolick tradition , as m. perkins demonst. of the probleme in the point of baptism proves , though perhaps they could not reasonably grant the one and deny the other . that calvin was a m●n well versed in antiquity for his time it 's not denied , nor that he was a man well acquainted in the scriptures ; yet that in neither he was in this point in the right , is so fully demonstrated before , that i may safely say calvin was not therein calvin as he is in his opposition of the papists . and if mr. m. or his friend think it not meet to be tied to calvins judg●ment in the point of the sabbath and lords day and usury notwithstanding his skill in antiquity and scripture , the same in equity is to be allowed to us about the point of baptism . i like mr. ms. acknowledgement with rive● , that tradition is in most points uncertain , and therefore he that will build sure must build on the scripture , and therefore we must necessarily come to arguments from the scriptures , which if they evince not the thing we shall in vain call to tradition . if mr. m. had not fi●st in his sermon forestal●ed his hearers and readers with the pretence o● the churches possession for . years and upwards , and dr. hammond resolved all his proof of infant baptism into his exposition of ●or . . . which he had no way to make good but by tertullian and some of the ancien●s , i had spared this labour of shewing t●eir and and the ancien●s mistakes . tha● doctrine and practise of baptism of infants ●hich austin saith to be according to the sentence of the gospel , is reject●d by pro●estants ; who i● they would in this , as in other things they have done 〈◊〉 , according to scripture and all their own principles , must baptize no infants till they be made believers ; till then they do but prevaricate , and profane the holy ordinance of baptism . sect . xcix . mr. crs. objections about my untruths , his discourse about re-baptizing are refelled . i return now to mr. cragg . part . sect . . he chargeth me with untruths , outvying the number of the lines ; in which he is a false accuser . in the first he mis●recites my words , which were not , that the epistle affirms , that the baptising of believers had its spring and rise from nicholas stork ; but thus , as false it is th●t the baptizing of believers ( called by these anabaptism ) had its spring and rise from nicholas stork and others there named , which were true . for though it was not in those words said by me , that the epistle did so affirm , yet it is true , . that paedobaptists call the baptizing believers which nicholas stork and others practised anabaptism ; me thinks he should not be so impudent as to deny that those whom they baptized were believers , or that they baptized them , or that that baptism is called anabaptism by them . . the very words of the epistle are , the spring and rise of anabaptism had its beginning after truth , and saith the first author thereof was nicholas stork , then phipher , &c. there you have the spring and rise of it , and therefore in my words there is no untruth , but mr. cr. doth falsely insinuate as if there were folshood and inconsequence in my speech , and sl●nderously make me one of the great disturbers of the late reformation , and the first ●uthor of the disturbance or anabaptism , and cunningly altering the subject of the question from anabaptists to baptizers of believers . the d . thing he chargeth on me as untruth , was not expressed as mr. cr. in●inuates , that paedobaptists call the baptizers of belivers anabaptists , but thus [ the baptizing of believers called by these anabaptism ] which cannot be denied to be true , unless he deny that the baptizing used was not baptizing , or the baptized no believers , or that they call it not anabaptism . it is also false that he saith of me , that my judgement and practise is , that all that will be saved must be baptized again , when they become actual believers ▪ and this i put in execution by making as many proselytes by rebaptising as i can . the d. untruth ( as he calls it ) is , that baptising of believers without infants , or excluding infants , had not its spring and rise from nicholas stork ; and he notes , that the epistle affirmed anabaptism ( which is another thing ) had its spring thence . but he neither shews what other thing anabaptism is , nor doth he prove it to be an untruth , but by rendring my own instances against it inv●lid . but therein he d●t● bu● abu●e me , who alledged not the instances he brings to prove that proposition he terms an untruth ; nor is there any thing said by him , but what he hath from mr. ms. defence , and is a●swered before here , sect●● ●● . the th ▪ untruth he ch●rgeth me with , is , that infants baptism was not commanded by christ , and he th●●ks to ●vince the contrary from mat. . . but he saith ●othing but wh●t is ●●●ully refuted before , review , part . sect . , &c. part . sect . . and elsewhere , so that i nee● say no more here to it . the th . untruth he imagines ▪ is ▪ that infant baptism was not practised by the apostles , which being denied by the an●ipaedobaptists , the proof lies upon them . but by his ●●ave the proof lies upon the paedobaptists , to prove they did baptize infants , sith they claim a right to it , which mu●● be proved by precep● o● example of the doing it . validity●o ●o sh●w infant baptism not to be according to gods will , sith in meer positive instituted worship , wherein ●od hath set down what he will have done , he will have it so done , and no otherwise . it is pro●ed b●fore , review , part . sect . . &c. part . sect . that the apostles baptized not infants . mr. crs. imagined reasons why they might baptize none but of ripe age , de facto , are vain , there being no intimation of any such reason● in the history of the apostles acts : yea , the story is against his surmises , for the converted and baptized did not travel far to hear the apostles , but the apostles travelled far to preach to them in their own cities , and in them they went from house to house , acts . , . & . . hierusalem and all judea , and all the region round about jordan are said to go out to john baptist to be baptized of him in jordan , confessing their sins , which cannot be meant of infants . though infants be a par● of a nation , yet mat. ● . . is. . . by nations no infant is meant , nor luk ▪ . . is in●ant baptism intimated . the baptism of infants is not proved from act. . . v. , . shew that by the house are meant persons of age : and by so expounding we diminish not gods word , nor make exception that god hath not made , nor imply a contradiction , nor incur a curse , as mr cr. after his vein of pratling , writes . all that mr. cr. saith in opposition to what i said of baptizing believers in the first ages continued without any infant baptism , proves not my words an untruth , nor a frontless assertion , and is answered before , sect . , , ●●n which , and sect . , . all that he brings to evince my th . and th . untruth ( as he terms my words ) is examined . i justly account infant baptism a popish abuse , it being derived from these principles , unwritten tradition , and necessi●y of it to save an infant dying , which are judged popish errours . and for answer to what mr. cr. saith of my th . untruth , as he terms it , i refer the reader to the th . section of my praecursor , not refelled by mr. baxter in his praefestinantis morator . sect. . mr. cr. excepts against me for saying , . that the epistlers assignation of the causes of anabaptism are vain . . that anabaptism is true baptism . . that the true cause is the light shining from scriptures and other authors . . that this light was not discovered formerly as now . what he saith against the first , is but a repeating of the reasons , without any confirmation , but some light poetical peda●ti●ue expression● , which deserve onely neglect . against the ●d . he gives his reasons against reiteration of baptism , which are nothing ●o me , who asserted not th●● baptizing twice was true baptism , but baptizing ●f persons of age professing ●aith though in infancy imagined to have been baptized is true baptism . yet do i see no force in the reasons he gives . for . in the institution of baptism , mat. . . the precept is to the baptizer , and i presume he doth not think the baptizer is not to reiterate his act of baptizing , yea doubtless he is to baptize as oft as there are disciples made by him . and as for the act of the baptized , which is implied it is true , neither is it determined to be once or twice , and may therefore seem to be left to liberty . that he allegeth , whatsoever is not of faith is sin , is clean mistaken by him , the meaning ●eing onely , what a man doth with a doub●ing conscience is sin to him , & so by this reason rebaptization is a sin only to him that doubts of it . and when ●e saith , whatsoever is not grounded on the scripture is will worship , i presume he means it of that which is used as worship , and determined to be but once . but then the question is only begg'd , not proved , that christ hath determined baptism to be but once . in that which he saith of act. . . ( which is an instance of being twice baptized ) i find nothing brought by mr. cr. to avoid the force of it . for to be baptized into johns baptism can be no other then to be baptized with water according to the pro●ession of johns disciples , and this was true baptism from heaven , not differing in the nature of it from christs , as say protestant divines ; and it is certain , that to be baptised into the name of the lord jesus , i● to be baptized with water into the profession of him , as act . ● , . & . . the giving the holy ghost is distinctly expressed v. . to have been by laying on of hands , and this was on the same persons v. . who were ●aid to hear and to be baptised v. . and these were not all the people mentioned v . bu● twelve onely v. . and therefore it is far more probable , and in mine apprehension certain , as the ancients did conceive , that those twelve were baptized with water twice , once according to the profe●●●on johns disciples made at baptism , and the other according to the christian. nor am i moved by the observation of marnixius , ●p●roved by beza in hi● annot . in locum , and followed by many others , that the particles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must necessarily answer each other , and therefore ●he words v , . be pauls . for . the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put oft , and the matter requires it should be so conceived here , either as an expletive that is without force , to which in the vulgar transla●ion nothing answers , as it is act . , , &c. o● an adverb of affirmation , or if it be a conjunction di●cretive , that which answers to it is not that v. . there being no good sense , to say , john verily baptised with the baptism of repent●nce , saying unto the people , that they should believe on him which should come after , that is , on christ jesus ; but they hearing this , &c. there being no apt discretion made in such speech , if the particles be discretive , the other part is concealed , and should be to thi● purpose , but the baptism we use is into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , or into the name of the lord jesus already come . and for this reas●n the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be expounded as our interpreters , when , or as a meer expletive as in the vulgar . . the words act. . . do give an obvious plain sense on the other side as the words of luke , thus , when the twelve , mentioned v. . heard this of paul , that it was christ ●esus to come after john , on whom john would have his disciples to believe when he baptized them with the baptism of repentance , then they were baptized into the name of the lord jesus with express profession of him . nor is it true that there is express scripture , ephes. . one lord , one faith , one baptism , against the iteration of the same baptism . for as one faith notes n●t one act of believing , but one kind of faith from the unity of the object b●lieved , which may be and is one faith though an hundred times iterated ; so one baptism notes not one act of baptizing , but one kind of baptism distinct from pharisaical baptism into the observance of the law f●r righteousness , termed one by the profession of the same doctrine or lord , though it be an hundred times iterated . the same man baptized an hundred times , and an hundred men once onely baptized , each of them have one baptism in the ●postles sense , if they be baptized with the same profession ; and the same person though but once baptized , yet if with another profession , hath not that one baptism there meant : one baptism is not as much as once baptized and no more , but baptism into one profession and no other . the d . argument is of no force , baptism is the sacrament of regeneration , or new birth ; and as austin hath it , we are ca●nally and naturally born but once , so we are spiritually and supernaturally new born but once ; faith though it admit of gradations begins but once , baptism that matriculates us into christs school is to be performed but once . answ. the scripture no where terms baptism the sacrament of regeneration ; nor , if the expression be allowed , will it follow baptism is to be but once . fo● . it doth not follow , natural birth is but once , therefore supernatural new birth , which is onely so metaphorically , is but once ; as it follows not , we die naturally but once , therefore we die to sin , or through sin but once . natural birth hath not degrees , therefore neither regeneration . . baptism is not regeneration though it were yeelded to be the sacrament of regeneration , and therefore though regeneration could be but once , yet baptism might be often . . ●hose that hold intercision of regeneration and faith ( which i do not ) will say that regeneration may be often , and faith begin of●en . . baptism may be termed the sacrament of regeneration either as the cause or sign of it . if as the cause of it so it should rather follow it should be often administred , as the word is often p●eached to beget us again . if as the sign , so it may often be used to signifie it , though it be but once done ; as the breaking of bread is oft used to signifie christs death , though he died but once . the d. argument , from once circumcision , is of less force . for neither is it true , that our baptism succeeds jewish circumcision , nor is it proved that in no case a person might be twice circumcised ▪ nor if both these were granted will it follow , that the rule of circumcising but once must be a rule to us of baptizing but once , any more then the jews circumcision was tied to the th . day , therefore so must our baptism . yet this reason of mr. cr. may be thus urged against infant baptism : circumcision was tied to the ●h ▪ day , therefore to circumcise on another day were sacriledge ; baptism is tied to disciples , or believers , mat. . . mar. . , . therefore to baptize infants who are not disciples or believers , cannot be justified without sacriledge , at the rate of mr. crs. reasoning . the rest of that section and the next section need no other answer then what is already made , there being no argument needfull to be answered , nor any thing almost but scosti●g rhetorick , cavils , mis●representations of my words and the passages a● disputes , which were rightly represented in the d . section of my plea. sect . c. the arguments of mr. cragg for infant baptism are re-examined . mr. cr. in the dispute at abergavenny began thus , some infants may not be baptised , therefore some infants may be baptised ; and this the relator ( who was likely to be himself , or one whose relation he viewed and approved ) terms an enthymema . to which in my plea● answered , . the consequence could not be made good according to logick rules , but by adding this proposition , all that may not be baptized may be baptized . . that it is like these arguings , some infants may not have the lords supper , therefore some may ; some boys are not to be ordained bishops , therefore some are . to this he replies , part . sect . . . that the relator and i were both mistaken : which if true , it was ill done that he did not rectifie the thing ere i● was printed . . that my censure of this arguing as frivolous , arose from ignorance or inadvertency , that betrayed me to a double mistake , . that there was no way of arguing consecutive , by two propisitions , bu● enthy●ematically , so that they were immediately reducible , to a syllogism compleat in mood and figure . . if an enthymema and reducible , that it must necessarily be resolved into his syllogism as he calls it , all that may not be baptized , may be baptized ; some infants may not be baptized , ergo , some infants may be be baptized . truly this is so frivolous , and deserves so much contempt , that a fresh man would laugh at it . and then he goes on , i would gladly know to what mood of the first figure ( for it hath sub prae ) his monstrous syllogism belongs , consisting in the premises of two negatives , in the conclusion of an affirmative ; whereby ( as eve●y puny knows ) two maximes are violated , . that of pure negatives nothing is concluded . . that the conclusion should follow the unworthier part , whereas he extracts an affirmative conclusion from negative premises . answ. i am content that an ingenious fresh man judge whether there were any ignorance , inadvertency or mistake in my answer to this arment , and whether there be not gross ignorance and sophistry , in his argument , and in the reply impudent boldness to avow such a shamefull act ; and that any wise conscientious christian judge , whether the argument at first , or this reply , could come out of any other then a wrangling spirit , bent to baffle a respondent , and make sport for a company of vain auditors and readers , without any care befitting a christian teacher to clear truth . at first when i denied the consequence he proved it not , but brought a syllogism concluding another thing then the consequence ; and whereas then his syllogism appeared to have four terms , he brings another syllogism , in which he would infer , that because subcontraries may be both true , therefore that proposition , some infants may be baptized , must be true ; as if because both may be true , it follows that proposition must be true : whereas every fresh man knows , that though both may be true , yet it is true also one may be false , and that may be the proposition he infers , notwithstanding the ●o●ce of that rule . now in the reply he discovers the same spirit . though his relator ( with whom he must concur , or else they juggle with readers ) term his dispute an enthymema , yet he would not have it so conceived , bu● tels us there is a kind of argumentation in ke●kerm . syst . log. l. . tr . . c. . defined , one sentence or proposition following another without disposition of the medium as in conversions . but doth he shew there is any such c●nversion , or any other way of consecution of sentences allowed by keckerman or any logician in his argumentation ? then when i had reduced it to that syllogism to which the enthymeme was to be reduced according to logick rules , he hath the impudence to term this my syllogism , and ●o suggest as if i were not able to make a syllogism , or reduce that to a syllogism which was reducible , whereas the syllogism was his own virtual●y , as all logicians know that understand the rule about enthymemes , though it were formed by me rightly and the monstrosity of it must ●ie at his door , not mine , who value little his judgement of my abilities , better known to others of better esteem then to him . and for the way he new forms it , it is quite another argument then what he made at the dispute , and of which the minor is to be denied , which is thus , there are some infants besides them that are excluded baptism , but this is contrary to the antecedent in the enthymeme , some infants may not be baptised , which should be the minor he adds ▪ that the force of the argument lies in the immediatoness of the propositions , that what belongs not to one of them must needs belong to the other , and a topick rule out of cracanthorp , and some other instances about divisions , in all which there is nothing but vanity . for let propositions be immediate , yet w●●n they are opposite as these are , some infants are to be baptised , some not , the one follows not from the other , but the contrary rather , except in those termed subaltern , which are rather subordinate then opposite . his instances of consequences upon a sufficient division , they are all impertinent here , where there is no division of term , but the same terms are in both propositions . in his answer to my instances he would make a difference between the propositions about infant bap●ism and the lords supper , and ordination to be bishops , that the one is in a capable subject , not the other ; but he shews not that an infant is capable of baptism any m●re then of the lords supper , or a boy of ordination ; nor if they were doth the force of the argument ●old more in the one then in the other : and therefore it 's his ignorance to say , no●ut ●ut it is whether this ●llation be good , some are not , therefore some are to be baptised ; which if right , it will follow in the other instances of communion and o●dination as well as in it . that which he saith of my grant of the capacity of ba●tism , because i grant they may be elected and believe and would if i knew it of infants baptize them , follows not ; for though my ignorance hinders not their capacity in themselves , yet it hinders their capacity from mee , i being not warranted to baptize any believer till his faith be manifested to me . sect. . mr. cr. goes on to scribble after his usual manner . he had thus dispu●ed , to whom belongs the essence of baptism they may be baptised , but to some infant , belongs the essence of baptism , ergo. to this i said , this proposition , the essence of baptism belongs to infants , may have two senses . he replies , as if i distinguished of a two f●ld essence of baptism ▪ which he terms a chymaera , the essence of a thing being but one and indivsible ; whi●h shews hee hath some smattering in metaphisicks , but is impertinent to the thing in hand . for be it all granted , yet a proposition which speaks of the essence may have a two-fold sense ; and the senses i conceived of his words were rightly set down , and more favourably to mr. cr. then his words did deserve . for this proposition , to some infants belongs the essence of baptism , must have one of those senses , or a worse , to wit , either that infants are in the definition of baptism , so as that there is no baptism but of infants ; or that baptism is of the essence of infants , so as that they are no infants without baptism , which are absurd . and to speak truly , the whole argument is ridiculous , take it what way he will , except he give the same sense which i did , and then the minor and the conclusion are all one , and the major meerly tautological , to whom the right administration of baptism belongs they may be lawfully baptized , but to infants , &c. ergo ▪ in the other sense it is more vain . for if the essence numerical of baptism belong to infants then not a moral right is asserted , but either a present or a future event , and so the minor proposition should be , some infants are baptized , which is a thing discerned by sense ; or shall be baptized , which were a prediction , but nothing to the point about moral or legal right . to understand it of the specifical essence , makes no sense but what is worse . his proof from the definition is also as vain ▪ for it is a proof of the same by the same : but he tels me , it is not all one as to argue infant baptism is baptism , therfore it is right baptism , but it concludes infant baptism is baptism , therefore infants may be baptized , which is the question by this inference put out of question . to which i reply , this talk 〈◊〉 to me like the words of a crazed man , there being no question between u● about the baptism of infants , whether they may be baptized , that is whether this may be done to them so as that they be passive subjects of it , i never denied that infants may be thus baptized , but the question is whether it may be lawfully done by him that doth it , and then to say they may be baptized is all one as to say infant baptism is right baptism , and so his argument from the definition is that which he denies not to be vain , infant baptism is baptism , therefore it is right baptism . but he thinks to prove from the definition , that infant baptism is right baptism , and he sets down his conceits of baptism , that it is a relation whose fundament is the divine institution in●olding infants in all nations in severall families , which if he onc● p●ove , he needs prove no more , but here he doth not attempt it , but excepts against me for denying baptism to be a relation , but an action or passion with a relation superadded , and he brings against me sayings of divines who call it a signe , which i deny not in respect of the use , but that shews not the nature of it , no more then circumcision is in its nature a relation , because it is a signe of the covenant in its use , the carrying a scepter is in its nature a relation , because in its use it is a sign of royalty . what he saith , that i tell not whether it be action or passion , and not to be placed in one category is to be placed in none , is answered by his own confession , that in baptism is included baptization which is both action and passion , which is enough to shew that baptism is in its nature either an action or a passion , and may be put in either predicament , and that in different respects a word may be put in divers predicaments , and his talk false , that nothing formally can be placed in two categories , and the rest of his talk about the genus of baptism being a signe , and other passages to be but mistakes . but he attempts to gain his ●urpose by this argument , every sacrament is a relation , but baptism is a sacrament , ergo. to which i answered , both premises ●ight be d●nied , and as a reason of the denial alleged , ● that the term [ sacrament ] being but a term invented by latin fathers , may be laid asi●e . he replies , that the . tables and tully mention it , therefore it was long before the latin christian fathers ; true , but not in the sense in which baptism is termed a sacrament . but , if the word sacrament be laid aside because a heathen word , then should also the terms bishop , pre●byter , deacon , be laid as●de also . answ. no , f●r they are scripture terms , not so the t●rm sacrament in the ecclesiastical sense : yet again , then trinity , unity , humanity , antipaedobaptist must be laid aside . answ. it followes not , yet what ● said of sacrament i say of them , they may be laid aside , when an argument is drawn from them , as here from the word sacra●ent . he adds , besides is there not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mystery in the original ? answ. it is , but never in the use in which the term sacrament is used as now it is defined . . i alleged that there is no common nature of sacraments ( not as mr. cr. of a sacrament ) express'd in scripture , this he saves is untrue in the sequel . for what consequence ? there is no common nature of a sacrament expressed in scripture , therefore baptism is not a sacrament , more then in this ? there is no common nature of infused grace expressed in scripture , therefore faith is not an infused grace . answ. it was not my sequel ; but this , therefore the term sacrament may be laid aside , and no good argument is from the definition of a sacrament to prove baptism to be a relation . the term grace or grace of god , i do much question whether any where in scripture it be applied to inherent qua●ities in us , or good acts proceeding from us , and i conceive that the use of it in that manner hath occasioned or strengthened the errour of justification by inherent righteousness , because we are said to be justified by grace , and do wish that when approvers of preachers are directed to examine persons of the grace of god in them , the thing had been otherwise expressed , and that such an expression as the gift by grace , or the like were used ; yet i deny not there is in scripture a common nature of those gifts by grace in us which accompany salvation , and that faith is a gift by grace infused , inspired , or wrought by the spirit of god. mr. cr. saith further , untrue in it self , for though not in one place there may be in many places of scripture compared together a common nature of sacraments compared together . and is there not the common nature of a sacrament expressed in one scripture rom. . . a seal of the righteousness of faith ? this is the judgement of the ancients , and the most of the divines of the reformed churches ▪ answ. that neither the text rom. . . nor the ancients do so define a sacrament , is shewed before ; and however the divines of the reformed churches do define thence a sacrament as the seal of the covenant , yet not ( as there it is expressed ) a seal of the righteousness of faith ; but of this i have said enough before sect . . what i said of austins definition of a sacrament , that it is a visible signe of invisible grace , as imperfect ( which i proved by instances ) was without a miscellany of absurdities ; ●f the descent of the holy ghost as a dove were a signe or seal of christs office of mediatorship and not of his righteousness of faith , yet it was a visible signe of his holy qualifications , luk. . . joh. . . and so of invisible grace , and consequently a sacrament by austins definition ; christs washing his disciples feet , shewed his love and humility , ergo , by austins definition must be also a sacrament ; and holding up the hands in prayer shews faith in god ; kissing the bible in swearing shews appealing to god as judge or hope in his word , which are invisible graces according to austin , and according to his definition sacraments . and though it be added in the common prayer book catechism , ordained by christ , yet it is not so in austins definition used by mr. cr. in the dispute , and if it had , holding up the hands in prayer had been a sacrament , being ap●ointed tim. . . and for the addition in the catechism [ as a means to receive the same , and a pledge to assure us thereof ] i know no scripture that ever made ci●cumcision , the passeover , the lords supper , or baptism , meanes to receive invisible grace , and how fa● and in what manner it assures i have before sect . . and elsewhere shewed . enough of mr. crs. vain pra●●le in this section . sect. . mr. cr. quarrels with my reconciliation of my own words , denying all invisible churchmembers were to be baptized , but affirming it of vi●ible . he tels me , . this distinction is not fitly applied , for the proposition was meant of visible churchmembe●ship . but . however it were mea●t the expression was , god appointed infants churchmembers under the gospel , and this might be understood of invisible as well as visible churchmembership ; and therefore it was fitly applied to take away the ambiguity of the expression . . it was fitly applied also to ●l●er my meani●g , and to free my words from contradiction . . he tels me my proposition is not true , for all visible churchmembers are not to be baptized , then all ba●tized before ( they being visible members ) were to be baptized again . but what is this but wrangling , sith the proposition was his own , and i granted it with that limitation in his own sense , of them that were not yet baptized ? he tels me of the state of the question between us , which is impertinent to the present business of cleering my words . he adds , invisible and visible members differs as genus and species , all invisible members are visible , but not all visible members invisible , the invisible being extracted out of the visible ; now if all invisible members be also visible , it will inevitably follow they may be baptized , whether visible by profession , or by prerogative and promise of parents or sureties of infants . but what a dotage is this ? doth visible churchmember praedicari de pluribus specie differentibus in quid ? if it be asked what is an invisible churchmember , will any that is in his wits say hee is a visible churchmember ? is not this a contradiction , to say all invisible members are visible ? how is it proved that any are visible members of the christian church , but by profession of faith ? the like dotage is in what he saith after , that there is an intrinsecal connexion of th●se termes [ actually to receive into covenant under the gospel , and to appoint church-members under the gospel ] that they are as essentially coincident as to bee a man and a reasonable creature ▪ which makes this proposition to be aeter●ae veritatis , those whom god did actually receive into covenant under the gospel , those god did appoint churchmembers under the gospel . for is the one to be defined by the other ? do not these terms express existences restrained to hic and nunc ( for sure actual receiving and appointing are singular acts in ti●e ) not essences ? if these speeches of mr. cr. be according to metaphysical and ●ogical principles , i am yet to seek in them , as having not heard or read of such principles before . and if god did promise before the law , fore●ell under the law , actually receive into covenant under the gospel , or appoint churchmembers under the gospel without faith or profession of ●aith , then infidels are actually in covenant under the gospel , and so justified ; then is mr. baxters dispute against antinomians , about the condition of the covenant and justification false , and if they be churchmembers without faith or profession of faith and to be baptized , and the truth of mr. crs. proposition , those whom god did promise before the law , foretell under the law , actually receive in●o covenant under the gospel , those god did appoint churchmembers under the gospel , have no dependence upon ●aith or profession of faith ; then mr. baxters arguments in his d . dispute of right to sacraments against mr. blake are fal●e ; so that i need no more but to leave mr. cr. to be chastized by his magnified doctor mr. baxter about this point ; and so enough of this section . sect. . he terms this an untruth , that a person may bee in covenant , who i● not yet born or conceived as my i●stance of isaac implies , and saith ; it may bee confuted insito argumento , by an argument inbred in the terms , for he implies and that right , that a person must be the subject of being in covenant , but none who is unborn , and unconceived as isaac gen. . . is a person . ] but this is false , he may be a person though not in present but future existence . those ephesians who were el●cted before the foundation of the world , eph. . . were persons when elected , for they were singular men , though not then in actual being but future . mr. crs. reasoning in this , is like the reasoning of adam medlicot my neighbour , in his book stiled comfortable doctrine for adams off-spring , p. ▪ who will not have any particularly elected before the foundation of the world , because then they were not any where men , and p. . that none is absolutely elected till he believe , because not in christ , and if not in christ not in election , and one is elected before another because in christ before another . and in his honey found in the lions carkass , p. . although the purpose of election and reprobation was fully in god before time , yet there could be no absolute or real election or reprobation of men and women , until they had a real and absolute beeing . surely infants are in covenant no otherwi●e then by gods promise or mans vow , or some such act in their behalf , and this may be afore they are in being , and consequently they may be in covenant afore they are in actual being . if i do not mistake , mr. cr. both here sect. . and in the d. part sect. . makes those with whom the covenant was made deut. . . to have been in covenant , but doubtless the covenant there was made with the posterity yet unbegotten v. , . for no other can bee meant by him that was not with them that day , all that were born or begotten then of the congregation of israel , whether by nature or proselytism being present , as the words v. , . shew , and the end of the covenant being to prevent the apostasie of their posterity v. . therefore the unbego●ten were in covenant . nor is it a good argument , a man is in covenant , ergo he is , any more then a man is elected therefore he is , these termes being termini diminuentes , as logicians speak ; and the verb ( est is ) in these speeches not noting the present existence of the subject of these propositions , but of the act of the person who elects or covenants . a child unbegotten may be said to be in a copy or a deed , and so in covenant in respect of the assuring an estate to him wh●n hee shall be existent . but mr. cr. tels me , ly . it is a false suggestion that to have a covenant made to one is to be in covenant , if by having the covenant made to ( for the phrase is somewhat strange ) ●e meant ( as he can mean nothing else ) a promise from god to be and be in covenant , for a promise may be made to or of one , long before he hath any being , nor executed or performed till long after his being ; then to be elected and ●o be in covenant would be both one , then mary magdalen and paul while a persecutor were in covenant , nay from eternity to be in covenant would precede outward an● inward calling , conversion , profession and prerogative of birth , then which nothing can be more ridiculous . answ. it is so far from being ridiculous , that to me it is very plain to be in covenant precedes calling , and to be in covenant is to have a covenant made to one , and that a person is said to be in covenant with god by gods promise to be his god though the man be not existent . this is in my apprehension that which paedobaptists mean by being in covenant , for they usually say infants are in covenant , which sure they mean of gods promise to them , for they prove it from gen. . . acts . . nor can they mean it of any other being in covenant , sith there is no act of any infant or any other for him , that can denominate him in covenant with god in the time of the gospel , but gods promise , which is long before the being of those to or for whom it is made , tit. . . gal. . , . and thus two kingdomes are said to be in league and covenant , and they that are born many yeers after may be said to be in covenant by vertue thereof . this being in covenant may be , though the things covenanted be not executed or performed till long after the being in covenant , as persons first enter into covenant and then perform . and yet to be in covenant and to be elected would not be both one , though attributed to the same persons , si●h there is a different formal conceit of them , election being an immanent act , covenant a transient , that from eternity , this in time , as to be justified and sanctified are not both one , though to the same persons . nor is it any absurdity to say paul was in cove●ant while a persecutor , nor that to be in covenant precedes conversion , sith i● is by vertue of being in covenant that one is converted , heb. . . rom. . , . as for being in covenant with god by prerogative of birth , i know not of any such in the time of the gospel . thirtdly ( saith mr. cr. ) it is of the same leven of untruth , that isaac was in covenant when he was not yet born , which his own quotation , gen. . . proves against him . for he saith he will establish a covenant with isaac in the future , not that he does establish a covenant in the present . answ. surely isaac was a child of the promise , rom. . , . and jacob , v. . afore they were born , and ●●nsequently in the covenant ; and when god said he would establish his covenant with isaac , he meant no other then the covenant made with abraham , and therefore it was made to him then , and he in covenant , though confirmed and performed after . mr. cr. saith of my speech , that a person is not actually received into covenant till he is born , and by some acts of his own eng●geth himself to be gods , that it is founded upon the basis of this mistake , that every covenant must be expresly and actually mutual between both parties ; and talks after his foolish fashion , as if it were an argument sophistically ( though sillily ) drawn a negatione unius speciei ad totum genus : but this is his meer cavil . for my reason added , receiving importeth an offering , which is to be done by profession , shews i inferred it otherwise . against which his exception is in these words , as if more were to be required for admission of visible members into covenant , then was for admission , or actual receiving of christ as god ▪ man and mediator to be visible head of the church . to which i reply , when and how christ was visible head of the church , is a point that requires much discussion . to be head of the church imports direction , government , &c. to be visible head , is to do these things discernably by reason from something sensible . that he was visible head of the church till he was manifest to israel , and how he was visibly head of it but by his preaching , calling disciples , or how he was actually received as such but by believing on his name , joh. . . or how he was admitted visible head but by johns declaration , his baptism of him , the spirits descent on him , and his fathers proclamation of him , or how any according to the evangelical order are admitted visible members into covenant but by their own profession of faith , and thereupon being baptized , i understand not . but as for my speech , i see not how it imports that which mr. cr. would have it to do , but onely , that being actually received into covenant doth import an offer or tender on his part who is to be received , which however it might be under the law , yet sure in the gospel is no other way but by the persons own profession ; and this neither smels rank of heresie nor blasphemy , but mr. crs. conceit as if under the gospel some might be received into covenant , and admitted as visible members representatively by others , who are their proxies , and engage for them , they being but meer passives without any voluntary act of their own , is but an innovation from what christ or his ●postles appointed o● practised ; and his acknwledgement that it is not necessary that a covenant be mutual , that the covenant ezek. . . gen. . . & . . are such as wherein one party maketh the covenant without mentioning the other but as patient , serves me to prove what i assert before , sect . . against mr. bl. that a covenant is not always a mutual agreement , and that a person is said to be in covenant in that a covenant is made to him , and this may be to persons not actually existent , against mr. cr. in this section . mr. cr. to prove that god did promise to abraham that infants should be in covenant under the gospel , alledgeth gen. . . and thus a●gue . he that makes an everlasting covenant to abraham and his seed after hi● in their generations , pro●●●ed that infants should be in covenant und●r the gospel ; god made an everlasting covenant with abraham and his seed after him , ergo. to this i said i had many exceptions ; for besides those to which mr. cr. here replies , i might and do deny his major for another reason then i did before . for now by his words p. . i perceive by being in covenant under the gospel , he means an outward and visible covenant , like to which he hath p. . and p. . he calls this an impregnable rock which the anabaptists will never overthrow , that to be circumcised or baptized is all one as to be in visible covenant ; and p. . he saith , i clearly affirm with all the reformed churches , that all in visible covenant a●e subjects of baptism , and all subjects of baptism are in visible covenant . i must confess , imagined that paedobaptists if th●y would speak plainly could mean no other by the being of infants in covenant under the gospel but their being baptized ; and so their argument , infants are in covenant , ergo to be baptized , is but a meer tautology , or worse , they are baptized therefore they are to be baptized . but i think i have sect . . before shewed , that the distinction of outward and inward covenant as the paedobaptists use it , is either non ens or non-sense , and i now deny this proposition , he that makes an everlasting covenant to abraham and his seed after him in their generations promised that infants should ●e in covenant under the gospel , not onely for the reason given in the dispute , but also because i now perceive he means ( unless he still juggle , as i fear he will in the use of the phrases being in covenant , the covenant is made , &c. ) that god promised that infants should be baptized under the gospel , which is too ridiculous a sense to be put upon the promise of being a god to abraham and his seed , gen. . . much unlike christs exposition of the phrase , luke . , . and seems to be the attempt of men that have for their baby-sprinkling resolved to avow the grossest absurdities . but to keep to the dispute as it hath been printed . i said the covenant gen. . . to abraham and his seed after him in their generations , if it be understood of the natural seed of abraham , the everlastingness of it was but for a time , and that time afore the gospel as in the next verse ; the possession o● canaan is promised to be everlasting , and yet the jews now dispossessed of it . which mr. cr. grants , and therefore must needs grant , that the promise v. though it be termed everlasting , yet it is to be understood onely of a limited time , as in other passages , exod. ● . . & . . &c. if meant of the natural seed of abraham . to this he replies , how doth that follow ? if it had been with a particle of exclusion , onely to the natural seed , there might have b●en some colour of dispu●e ; and yet without all controversie , the everlastingness of it is extended even to the na●ural seed of abraham ; for there hath been , is ▪ and will be a succession of jewish believers to the end of the world ; which proves that in his sense it 's false , that the everlastingness of it was but for a time , and that time afore the gospel . answ. my meaning was plain enough , that the covenant as it was evangelical , that is , as it contains a promise of the spirit , justification , &c. ( which is the onely gospel covenant i know ) if meant of the natural seed of abraham , that is , the generality , or body of them was but for a time afore the gospel , which i learned from our lord christ , who foretold mat. . that the kingdome of god should be taken from them , and the apostle saith was accomplished , rom . . that the branches , meaning the jewish people , were broken off by unbelief : and this is true , though it be true also that there have been a succession of jewish believers still , they being a remnant onely according to the election of grace , rom ● . . and thus they were not meerly abarhams natural seed , but also his spiritual , to wit , elect and true believers , to whom i never denied the covenant to be simply everlasting . mr. cr. adds . but the truth is , it is not onely meant of the natural seed , but of the spiritual seed of abraham , both whereof successively and in part , if not altogether concomitantly ( for there were always proselytes ) i● is everlasting , or to the end of the world . answ. if mr. cr. me●n , that to the natural seed , who are also the spiritual seed , the covenant gen. . . is simply everlasting , i grant it ; but this doth no way advantage mr. cr. for then it will onely follow , that to such infants as are not onely the natural seed of abraham or a believer , but also are themselves believers , god hath promised they shall be in covenant under the gospel ; which would not be true of all the infants of believers , or any but the elect : if he mean it as it is there meant ( as appears by the next words , v. . ) being understood of the natural seed of abraham of the nation or people of israel , and not of a remnant of them , it can be true onely of a limited everlastingness , and not at all of the gentile believers infants , and so is not at all for mr. crs. purpose . but he tels me , it follows not , unless the same word in adjoyning verses must necessarily signifie the same thing ; which if so , an argument might be drawn against the infiniteness and eternity of the deity from these words , god of gods and lord of lords , gods and lords in the latter signifies creatures , therefore in the former ; but how inconsequently in both , a child may judge . answ. my arguing needs not proceed thus , but is good against mr. cr. thus , the term [ everlasting ] signifies a limited everlastingness afore the gospel , v. . therefore it may be so meant v. . and if meant of the body of the israelitish people who were the natural seed of abraham , it must be so meant , otherwise it were not true . and for his instance , i think the argu●ent not good as he makes it ; yet it follows , the term [ god ] doth not necessarily of it self infer infiniteness and eternity , but when it is appl●ed to the most high god the creatour , who is the god of gods , because it is sometimes spoken of creatures . but mr. cr. tels me , that v. . can be true onely in one of these senses , that they had title to all the land of canaan , though not actual possession of it , or that it was a type of the everlasting spiritual canaan , in which senses from abraham they possessed it ; or that the plenary , and full possession of the whole begins at the conversion of the jews , and shall last from thence to the end of the world without interruption , because neither abraham nor his seed had actual possession of all the land of canaan ; none of these will support mr. t. his declining cause . answ. that the land of canaan , gen. . . must be meant of that part of the earth so called is manifest from the expression , wherein thou art a stranger , or the land of thy sojournings , and might be , if need were , proved by multitudes of other scriptures and that the seed of abraham is that which is natural and afore their later conversion , is apparent from v. , . where the seed to whom the land of canaan is promised are enjoyned to be circumcised , and the term possession v. . cannot be meant of a mere title , for that 's implied in the words will give , but the possessi●n is distinct from it and consequent upon it , therefore i choose rather to untie mr. crs. knot by expounding it thus , i will give to thee and to thy seed after thee all the land of canaan for an everlasting possession , but not altogether , thou shalt possess a part in thy time as a pledge of the whole , as his burying place was , and thy seed in joshua's and davids time shall possess the whole , and this shall be not onely a place to sojourn in , but a possession for them to dwell in , and that everlasting , that is , f●r many ag●s , as phine●as his priesthood is termed everlasting , numb . . . so long as they shall keep my covenant and observe my statutes . now this will serve thus far to support my cause , which is still standing and not declining , to shew that the covenant gen. . . as it is made to the natural seed of abraham is termed everlasting , that is , for a limited time afore the gospel ; which sense also the terms for ever and everlasting have , exod. . . & . . numb . . . &c and so the major proposition of mr. cr. justly denied , he that makes an everlasting covenant to abraham and his seed after him in their generations , promised that infants should be in covenant under the gospel . sect. . mr. cr. endeavours to draw gal. . . to his purpose , to prove a continuance of the gospel covenant to the end of the world , to abraham and his seed , by paraphrasing it thus ; that the scripture foretold that god would justifie the heathen through faith , that is , the partition wal● should be pulled down , and the heathen nations should profess faith as visible members , whereof some should be actually justified as members invisible . but besides his inept expression of [ heathen nations ] which is all one with nations nations , he abuseth the text by paraphrasing [ through faith ] thus ; that the nations should profess faith as visible members , when it should be , shall be true believers as abraham was , and would justifie the nations , by whereof some should be actually justified , whereas the text mentions no other then should be justified ; and v. . terms them , they that are of the faith , who are blessed with faithfull abraham , and onely meant by the nations , v. . mr. cr. tels me , . that i injuriously mis-report his allegation , as that he urged this argument drawn from gal. . . to prove that abrahams natural seed were promised to be in covenant under the gospel , whereas he urged it to prove the covenant gen. . . to have been a gospel covenant made with abraham and his seed , that is proprofessors and believers , whether carnally descended from him or no. but sure he that reads his first argument in his sermon p. , . and his defence p. . where his words are , the minor i prove from gen. . . where the infants of believing parents are implied , it being a covenant not only established with abraham , but with his seed after him in their generat●ons for an everlasting covenant , by vertue of which isaac and all succeeding male infants were circumcised ; now sure these were abrahams natural seed , and here the covenant is everlasting , and therefore according to mr. crs. reasoning to extend to the end of the world , and the infants of believing parents , who are their natural seed , are , he saith , implied ; which can be no otherwise then as abraham is imagined to be taken for each believer , and the believers natural seed proportionably correspondent to abrahams natural seed , by prerogative of birth , as he there speaks , and then adds . in gal. . . there is implied abrahams seed , in that it was a gospel covenant , and that in him all nations shall be blessed , and is directly for me , for it asserts the covenant , and in that justification to the believing gentiles , not onely from abraham● promise , but also a promise to them and their seed ; which plainly shews that he imagines gal. . . the gospel covenant , to be a promise to believers and their seed who are their natural seed , as in abraham his seed is implied , which conformably must be his natural . and if mr. cr. did not in the dispute mean abrahams natural seed he went from the point to be proved , and by me denied , that the covenant gen. . . was not simply everlasting to the natural seed of abraham , sith they were dispossessed of canaan . his suggestions therefore of my using officious untruths and pious frauds , are but the venome of his spirit which throughout his book he discovers , and most pestilently in that section , for which the lord rebuke him . what he next saith , that when i say the thing promised gal. . . was justification , and that of the heathen and that through faith , therefore this text proves not abrahams natural seed in covenant under the gospel , is , as if all this might not be , and yet some of the natural seed of abraham be in covenant under the gospel , who professed , were justified and had faith as well as the heathen ; which i grant ; but then they were not onely abrahams natural seed but also his spiritual , to which i grant the covenant is made gen. . . and is everlasting , and if he can prove infants of believers to be such , there 's no question but they are in covenant under the gospel and to be baptized , till then he can never prove either from gen. . . or gal. . . that abrahams natural seed , much less infants of believing parents to be in the gospel covenant , which whether hee had reason to bee ashamed of attempting the reader may judge . that the entring into covenant , deut. . , . was a tran●●unt fact and not a thing perpetually binding , i had thought none would deny ; nor argue as mr. crag doth , it was by command , deut. . . they wer● v. . to do the words of the law , and that was a command , and the revealed things belong to them and their children for ever , therefore the entring into covenant v. , . was a command perpetually binding under the gospel , which is too frivolous to spend time in answering , and his argument , that if wives and servants were in covenant under the gospel much more infants , is alike frivolous , ●ith he himself makes no other then believing wives and servants in covenant under the gospel , which when he proves of infants their being in covenant will not be denied . this is enough in answer to that section and most of the th . and th . sections of the third part . i said his allegation is vain of heb. . . to prove that if infants were in covenant under the law they are in covenant under the gospel , whereas the meliority of the covenant is not placed in the extent to the sort of persons ; he asks me , what then ? will it follow , if a covenant was made to no more then before , therefore not to all that were before ? answ. no , yet it will follow that the text is vainly alledged to prove the co-extension to persons , that speaks not at all of that thing , nor is it at all to the purpose , that it is extended to more , to wit to gentiles . for . however that text speaks not of it . . it is extended to more nations of the world besides the jews , but to none but believers of those nations , and consequently not to infants of believing parents as such . that the new covenant contains promises of better things then the old covenant , and differs more then in administrations , is shewed before sect. . and yet the●e is no such thing implied as if there were salvation in any other then jesus christ , unless he could prove salvation were by the promises of the law. my third paradox ( as he cals it ) that the promises of the gospel are not to any other then the elect and true believers , is proved before sect. . that there are in the gospel covenant promises of external ordinances made to all visible members , is more then mr. cr. proves or any other , and therefore i count it a figment , i know none but spiritual promises in it , which mr. cr. grants are made absolutely and terminated or performed onely to the elect and invisible members , which is the same with my paradox , but hath more assertors then his most gross speech , that the meliority of the covenant consists principally in outward ordinances , manner of administration and dispensation , extent and amplitude of the proposal , not of grace and glory . he adds , of which there was alwayes the same reason ; enoch , abraham , eliah , moses , were as well justified by faith , which is true , but not according to the covenant of the law , but by the covenant of the gospel , which it seems mr. cr. understands not , though he assume the title of a preacher of the gospel . mr. cr. saith of me , his last assertion is , that because the promises of the gospel are not to any other then the elect , and true believers , therefore they are not to infants as the natural seed of believers : the antecedent is proved to be false , for though the spiritual part of gospel promises is absolutely performed and terminated to the elect , yet they are conditionally proposed to all professors ; and the external part , which consists in administration of ordinances , is equally belonging to all visible members . but are the promises to all professors because they are conditionally proposed to them ? if so , we may say the promises are to the most obstinate infidels , to eve●y man in the world , for to them they are conditionally proposed . sure this is not according to the doctrine of the scripture which makes the promises to bee the believers inheritance , cor. . . pet. . . gal. . . & . . heb . , . according to the doctrine of protestan●s , the saints legacy , yea paedobaptists make them their priviledge , rom. . . though the promises there were other promises . as for an external part of gospel promises , which consists in administration of ordinances equally belonging to all visible members , it is a mere figment no where in scripture ; and the sayings of mr. cr. part. . sect. . p. . [ christ is said heb. . . to be a mediator of a better covenant , which could no● be , if infants , that were in covenant , under the law , were out of covenant under the gospel , and is grounded upon this impregnable rock , which the anabaptists will never overthrow , that to be circumcised or baptized is all one as to be in visible covenant : that the reason of baptizing or circumcising a person is their birth right , tuition , self-profession , whereby they are visibly admitted into covenant , that what he hath said examen part . . sect . . antipaed . part . . sect . . touches not the true state of the controversie , but is a confused maze intricated with his fallaciâ decumanâ , or master fallacy of gods making , whereas he should say , completing his covenant onely with the elect , heb. . . the new covenant is a better covenant not onely positively , because it is established upon better promises in circumstantials , but also because it is extended to move all nations ; negatively would not be better , if any sexe , age , degree were excluded ] contain such a heap of mistakes and untruths as is not elsewhere usually found in the most heedless scribler . for ● . if the first speech were true , then unless we grant infants to be baptized , which is in his language , to be in covenant , either the new covenant shall not be better then the old , or christ not mediatour of it , which is as much as to say , if infants who were circumcised under the law be not baptized under the gospel then the promises of the spirit , justification , gods writing his laws in the heart , teaching , forgiving sins cannot be better then the promises of the law , which assure righteousness and life to the keepers of the law , or christ cannot be mediatour of the new covanant , which if it be not a more monstrous conceit and to be more abhorred by christians then ever any popish conceit of the necessity of baptism to infants to prevent exclusion out of heaven , for which austin is by mr. cr. himself reckoned the hard father of infants , i know nothing . sure all that doubt of infant baptism , must by this reason either doubt whether it were not as good to be under the law as under the gospel , or whether christ be a better mediatour then moses . . it is a monstrous boldness in him to tell us of a visible covenant of so great necessity , and never tell us distinctly what it contains , nor where it is to be found , especially when not onely my self , but his oracle mr. baxter , hath written so much against it , as hee hath done in his apology against mr. blake . . it is alike confidence in his own conceits , to tell us , that it is an impregnable rock which the anabaptists will never overthrow , that to be circumcised or baptised is all one as to be in visible covenant , and yet shew us none that useth such language but himself . how doth hee think i or any other should answer his arguments , which are vented in such gibberish as no dictionary or author , or use makes intelligible ? is not his own first agument in his sermon here pag. . those ( meaning under the gospel ) that are in covenant with god ( meaning outward and visible , which according to him is all one as to be baptized ) ought to have the seal of the covenant which is baptism , but infants of believing parents are in the covenant with god ( that is in his language in the outward covenant which is all one as to bee baptized ) therefore they ought to have the seal of the covenant , which is baptism . in which he plainly makes . baptism the covenant , and yet the seal of it . . he argues in this manner , infants are baptized therefore they are baptized , which either merely an inept tautology , such as boyes in schools would hiss at in a freshman , or else it infers from baptism already done baptism to bee done , which paedobaptists call anabaptism , and so mr. cr. is turned an anabaptist . . hee tels us , this is an impr●gnable rock which the anabaptists will never bee able to overthrow ( though it be a castle in the air built by his imagination and will of it self vanish ) that the reason of baptizing a person is his birth right , tuition , which proceeds onely on that conceit as if there were the same reason of baptizing as of circumcising , which is oft before shewed to bee false . . if his words [ whereby they are visibly admitted into covenant ] bee referred to the outward covenant and baptizing , then the sense is anabaptistical , by baptizing they are admitted to baptism , i● to [ birthright , tuition ] and admission bee meant as mr. baxter in his book of baptism page . then the sense is , by birth right persons are baptized and so they baptize themselves and need no other baptism besides birth right . . hee corrects me for saying god makes , when i should say completes , as if the translators of heb. . . were mistaken , or gods making his covenant were not his completing it , or he did not complete the covenant hee made . but this exception of mr. crag shews either his ossitancy or unskilfulness ; sith it is the same word in jerem. . , , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to strike , rendered in the greek lxx by the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so heb. . . & . . which is as much as to dispose or put , and heb. . . by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i made although it be v. . rendred by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i will complete , so that this exception is but nodus in scirpo , out of a cavelling vein . . he saith , i do not touch the true state of the controversie exam. par . . sect . . antipaed . part . . sect . . though it be the very hinge of it , unless they mean no otherwise by being in covenant then baptism , and then i must confess there is no controversie about the consequence of mr. ms. argument infants are in covenant , that is to be baptized , therefore they are to be baptized , but the argument to be derided as nugatory , as indeed it is . . he terms my dispute there a confused maze intricated , which either his ignorance or impudence prompted him to do , sure he shews no confusedness in it . . he calls my proposition of gods making his covenant onely with the elect or spiritual seed , my master fallacy , and yet it is proved from scripture before , and acknowledged by protestants , yea mr. cr. himself to be true . . he takes on him to foretell no satisfaction to be expected from the third part of my review before hee sees it . . he saith heb. . . the new covenant is a better covenant , because it is established on better promises in circumstantials and extended to move all nations , which are not in the text . . h● saith , it would not bee better if any sexe age or degree were excluded , which being meant of the outward covenant , it were as if he said , the new covenant were not better then the old if an infant of a day old were excluded baptism . hee tels mee pag. . his consequent is also unsound , for the internal and spiritual part may be made intentionally to infants as the spiritual seed of believers , and yet the external part and that of ordinances to infants as the natural seed of believers , as well under the gospel as under the law ; in which passage the phrase spiritual seed of believers is a new notion , intimating that believing fathers beget them spiritual , contrary to john . . and that there is in the gospel promises a part which is of ordinances , which is a figment , and that belongs to the natural seed of believers which is fal●e , and that my consequent is unsound for that reason , which if it were good the consequent is sound nevertheless . what hee adds , if the external part under the gospel belong not to infants , the gospel and that made with abraham are two distinct covenants and essentially different , and that made with abraham and his seed carnal , as the carnal anabaptists affirm , their portion no better , then turks they made ( as calvin observs ) as beasts , whereas the covenant gen. . . is everlasting ] is true thus far , that the covenant gen. . . so farre as it did assure righteousness to abrahams spiritual seed by faith was the gospel covenant the same with ours , made in christ and everlasting , but this is nothing to prove that there was such an external part of outward ordinances belonging to infants in that covenant . but that covenant is mixt , mr. cr. himself saith , there was a promise of canaan and temporal blessings in it though in the main the covenant were spiritual , and that part belonged to the israelites by nature onely , not to our children at all . so that mr. crags terms of carnal and gross put upon us , and calvins observation are but reproaches and calumnies by mr. cr. and other paedobaptists , devised and used by them wickedly to make us odious : but in time their wickedness will return on their own head . sect. . mr. crs. speeches of infants sad condition without baptism , are like the popish talk of the necessity of baptizing infants that they may enter into gods kingdome . by denying their baptism we deprive them not of gods covenant . the priviledges rom. . . & . . were peculiar to the jews ; did he write with heed , he would not say they belong to infants of gentiles under the gospel . when i say baptism is not an ordinary meanes of salvation without faith , i mean that no ones baptism but the baptism of true believers is an ordinary meanes of salvation , which is true , though there may be true baptism without true saving faith if it be professed . his talk of preaching to infants by presenting objectively the benefit of that which is preached without manifesting to the understanding , is another of his wild conceits . it 's no contradiction to say infants are not saved by ordinary meanes , to wit , preaching the word , &c. and yet to say they are saved by election , redemption , the work of gods spirit , sith by ordinary means i understand and so do others , the word and sacraments and christian discipline . it is false he saith of me p. . that i confess if i knew infants were elected i would baptize them , or that here i acknowledge of the species or sort of believers infants , that they are not onely elected of god but redeemed of christ and have the work of his spirit . sect. . the major of his syllogism [ that which was proposed and entertained with success amongst the jews , which were the natural seed of abraham , was not onely made with the spiritual seed of abraham ] p. . is denied , he is grossely mistaken in conceiving believing jews were not abrahams spiritual seed : and his arguing that many of the natural seed of abraham were believers under the gospel , rom. . , . to prove it confirms the contrary . for all that are true believers ( not every professour of faith ) or elect are abrahams spiritual seed , and this i often expressed plainly , and mr. cr. knew well enough ; but says i speak ambiguously , that he may have some colour for his random roving talk of persons in visible covenant being children of the promise and abrahams seed , which is much of it non-sense , unproved dictates , and quite beside the meaning of the texts rom. . , , . & . . which make none abrahams seed , and children of the promise gen. . as it was evangelical , but true believers or elect persons , as is amply before proved sect. , . the rest of his scribling in that section runs on these two mistakes , . that there is now under the gospel a national church as the jews was , and that the expression ephes. . . may be applied to this whole nation . . that there is such an outward visible covenant which god hath made with such a whole visible national church , which is not proved from deut. , , . joh. . . psal. . . joh. . . two of which speak not at all of the gospel covenant , nor of gods making a covenant with them , but of theirs with god , the d . is expresly meant onely of true believers , the th . of being a branch in christ ( which it's true may be meant of a visible professour ) but not of being in the gospel covenant of grace , in which none any where are said to be , nor is god said any where to make it to any but true believers or elect persons , as is proved sect. . there is not any thing sect. . that i need reply to , saving that he grants that the gospel covenant of grace heb. . , , . is made onely to the elect , if by the covenant i mean the end , event and success thereof , which i confess i do , and acknowledge that i abhor any conceit to the contrary , as if god should make a covenant to any , which should not have the end event and success answerable to his promise , and therefore this covenant promising things , which none in the event have but the elect , can bee said to be made by god to none but them , unless we will charge god with falshood , mutability or impotency . sect. . that isa. . . . is a prophesie of the reducing the jews from babylonish captivity is evinced from v. , , . in that the description of the places wast and desolate , the land of their destruction , the place which was too strait are meant of the land of canaan , and mr. cr. himself thus v. . the place is too strait for me , that is the land of canaan is too narrow to contain the whole church , and he himself expounds after , thou hast lost the other , v. . of the natural seed of abraham , and the being desolate , a captive , and removing too and fro off jerusalem : but he will have it meant of the time after the destruction by titus , and the dispersion after it , for we never find it verified literally that the land of canaan was too strait during the time of captivity ( as the words point ) to contain the jews . but where do the words point that the land of canaan was too strait during the time of captivity to contain the jewes . the words point at the multitude of jews after the return from the babylonish captivity , at which time according to zechariah his prophesie , ch . . , , , , , , . the jews mightily encreased and prospered , and the place desolate confessedly being meant of canaan and jerusalem , and the jewes the captives , the sense of v. , . is meant undoubtedly ( in the first sense of the words ) of the jews reduction from captivity , which was not true of them after the destruction by titus , therefore of their return from babylon by cyrus , and other persian and grecian kings and queens favour . the like may be inferred from v. , . for therein i● foretold that they which were taken captive ( who were the jews ) should be delivered . but mr. cr. saith , that one democritus would not be enough to laugh at , nor three anticyra's suffice to purge that head , that would attempt from hence to draw an argument to prove the fore-going conclusion : the words are these , even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away ; from whom ? from cyrus , arta●●rxes , darius , ab●su●rus ? that would imply a contradiction , for he confesses that these were nursing fathers that did bring back the jews from captivity ; the prey of the terrible shall be delivered , children are not preys to their nurses , nor are their nurses terrible to their children . ) but we need not make the mighty and terrible the ●ame with the deliverers or nurses . the chaldean princes were the mighty and terrible to whom the jews were captives and a prey , and cyrus and others after deliverers and nurses . yet did we make them the same persons there were nothing ridiculous in it , sith the jews were at first their captives , and prey , and they terrible to them , and yet not long after deliverers and nurses . so that we may retort mr. crs. words thus ; one democritus ( except such a scoffer as mr. cr. ) would not bee enough to laugh at , nor three anticyra's suffice to purge that craig that makes such a silly refutation . what he adds to disparage mr. gattakers notes may be dispelled by reading the notes , nor is he alone in the sense hee gives , grotius in his annot . agrees in that thing with mr. gattaker . and for the contents of the chapter though there is not sufficient reason to ascribe them to the church of england , they being made by one translator though allowed by others without any canon , or act of parliament establishing them , yet i see not that they make against my sense , but the making the content of v. . to be the powerful deliverance out of captivity , did in the dispute and doth still seem to make for my sense of delivery or returning of the ●ews out of the babylonish captivity , which being derided by mr. crs. party shewed the levity of their spirits , to whom this book shews him to be too like . which is seen in his alleging my words ( not p. . as he cites them but p. . ) against my reason ; which he makes my interpretation , though if hee had added my words [ and if so ] it would have appeared that i spake not those words as my interpretation . and for his allegation of gods saying to moses thy children which thou hast brought out of egypt , i remember not where it is used ; but [ thy people exod. ● . . ] and for mr. crs. reconciliation , i do not conceive it may be congruously to speech so paraphrased , the gentiles shall bring thy sons , that is the churches by spiritual succession , the gentiles by natural generation , gods that is mine by adoption . it may be accommodated mystically to the conversion of the gentiles as shadowed out by the reducing of the jews from captivity , and yet make nothing for infants churchmembership or baptism . for though i yeeld in the litteral sense infants to be comprehended , yet in the mystical sense humble persons , or mean contemptible persons , or new born babes , this is believers desiring the word , may be meant . if the words be mystically meant , yet the words are not a prophesie of a prophesie , but as many speeches are which have a double meaning , as gen. . . & . , . exod. . . one more open , the other covert . and mr. crags purpose from isai. . . were not to prove it foretold that infants under the gospel should be brought to baptism , but to prove the propositton in question , that god foretold that infants should be churchmembers under the gospel , whence infant baptism will follow ; it seems mr. cr. understands not the bringing of children in arms and upon shoulders of bringing infants to baptism , and how else in a litteral sense they by bringing in armes and on shoulders become churchmembers i yet understand not , and am out of hope ever to do . sect. . mr. cr. speaks thus . he says ( meaning me ) if by standard be meant baptism , which the scripture never cals gods standard , and the bringing should be to baptism , then the sense should be , that supream magistrates , as kings and queens , should bring infants in their armes , and carry them on shoulders to baptism , which no story mentions to have been done , and is too frivolous to be made the matter of that prophesie , in which words there is neither veri●y , nor consequence if sense . first hee says , if by standard bee meant baptism , who makes a thesis of his hypothesis ? or affirms that by standard is meant baptism ? to which i reply , mr. cr. of whom the relatour of the dispute p. . saith , that to give me satisfaction ( which he needed not ) he told me , that by standard he understood some visible gospel ordinance , as baptism , without an &c. to wit , preaching , praying , with many more ; nor had i any reason to conceive he understood any other sith he named no other , nor did he say gospel ordinances , as if he included the genus ( as now he would evade ) but some gospel ordinance in the singular number . now i said baptism is no where called gods standard , and he hath nothing to reply hereto , but that it is so in this place , the genus being predicated on the species . but this i● but a begging of what he should prove , that by standard here is ●eant baptism in pa●ticular or gospel ordinances in general . sure the phrase of setting up the standard is very unsutable to the use of baptizing , which was not by setting up , but putting down into the water . and if mr. crs. words or the text do not necessarily speak of kings and queens bringing in their arms and on their shoulders to baptism , my reasons are the same , and of a like force , if meant of the people . for no story doth mention carrying infants on shoulders to baptism by the people , and such a thing is too frivolous to be made the matter of this prophesie , which expresseth some great and wonderfull thing to be done by gods extraordinary incitement and power , of which kinde that is not . though mr. cr. grant the phrase of nursing fathers and mothers isa. . . to be metaphorical , yet he applies the words before ( which are alike m●taphorical ) [ they shall bring thy sons in their armes or bosome , and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders , v. . ] according to the proper sense of the words , when he saith , the people should bring sons in their arms and daughters upon their shoulders to baptism , now if the words v. . be metaphorical so are those v. . which is also acknowledged by mr. cr. in that he grants that in story it is not found that infants have been brought to baptism on sho●lders . . in that they are said to be brought to the standard , which is according to mr. cr. baptism , but that is not a standard properly but metaphorically , and therefore it follows upon mr. crs grant , that the application of that one phrase of bringing their sons in their arms and daughters on shoulders , according to the proper sense of the words is not right . nor is his endeavour to fit the metaphor to infant baptism any better , though in the low countries it were true that the eldest son of a commission captain being born there whilest his father is in the service of the state , is by the courtesie of the camp enrolled in the souldiers list on his birth-day , and by the allowance of the state receives pay from the time of his nativity , as he scribbles out of fullers frivolous treatise termed infants advocate p. . for . if infants be listed , yet no standard is set up , or hand lifted up to the people to bring them , nor are they brought in their arms or bosoms in the low countries . . nor was any such usage among the jews or gentiles in isaiahs time , to whi●h he might bee conceived to allude , and it is too ridiculous to go about ( as mr. cr. doth ) to explain a metaphor alluding to an use in isaiahs time by an use no where shewed to be but in the low countries in our time . that mr. gataker in the cause of infant baptism interprets innumerable places against me , ●s an untruth ▪ though esther were a ●ew , yet a queen of the gentiles , and ●●ese things foretold isa . , . were fulfilled in cyrus time , and i● ahasuerus , artaxerxes and darius time also , yea and a●ter t●em in alexander the great , and some of his successors , and their queens as grotius conceives , in his annotations , who also and mr. gataker shew how the prediction of bowing down and licking the dust of the jews feet was fulfilled , though not in esthers time ( as i said the prophesie of queens being a nursing mother to the jews was ) yet in the times after afore christs incarnation . and for mr. crs. argument from v. , , , , , . let him form it as strong as he can , yet he will never prove that isa. ● . . is a prophesie of infants visible churchmembership in the times of the gospel or their bringing to baptism , nor was i by any argument of mr. cr. forced to surrender up this hold , that isa. . , . is a prophesie of the return of the jewes from the babylonish captivity , and their prosperity in judea after their return a●ore christs inearnation , and yet were it understood of the times of the gospel , i shewed how it might be understood of grown men perswaded by the preaching of the gospel , as junius in his annotations , which mr. cr. abusively puts into an argument as if it were alledged thus , junius says so th●re●ore it is so , and denies the antecedent and conse●uent . but neither was the consequent mine , nor the antecedent as mr. cr. sets it down . but this janius saith , that the standard isa. . . is the gospel , which is the power of god unto salvation to every one that believeth , rom. . . and therefore it is meant of perswading grown men by the preaching of the gospel , and that all those things are allegorically spoken of the amplitude of christs spiritual kingdome , and therefore not of bringing infants to baptism and for cornelius a lapide , hierome , cyril ▪ haymo , if they held it fulfilled in gospel times , and extended the words to grown men , though they were for infants visible churchmembership and baptism , yet they overthrow mr. crs. argument from thence , which is of no force unless the words be understood onely of gospel times , and of infants being brought to some visible ordinance as baptism , the contrary whereof his own authors shew , and himself grants , and therefore i take all mr. crs. reasoning in the dispute and this reply from isa. . . to be me●r cavilling , and still think it meet to refer the reader for the discerning of my interpretation whether right or no , and my yeelding that the words may be accommodated to the calling of the gentiles without any oppositeness to my interpretation , or appositeness to mr. crs. inference whether true or not to mr. gatakers annotations , which for no other reason but because ( however otherwise he differ from me ) i take to be the exactest , and the most incomparable learned on that part of scripture of any i know . to mr. crs. defence sect. . of his alleging thus isa. . there shall be no more an infant of dayes , that is infants shall no● be uncapable of the seal , against my answer impliedly deny●ng the consequence , and saying it hath no proof but his dictate , which is thus . to which it were sufficient reply to say it hath no disproof , but his dictate , which is without all shew of prohability , there being not a word of any such thing as o●tward peace , increase , possession , and long life to the jews , unless in the type a●d that scarce probable , but of the glorious estate of the times of the gospel held out in outward ordinances as shall appear . i oppose . that i needed bring no other disproof , but denial being a respondent , but it is necessary hee should make good his sense if hee will inferre his conclusion thence . . my disproof was right : for v. ; ● . speaks of the outward peace of jerusalem and her people , their long life , increase , building ▪ planting , possession ▪ opposite to their former troubles v. . are expressed v. . , , . not a word of outward ordinances . against this saith mr. cr. and in isa. . . there is need of such an interpretation , for as v. . the new heaven● and new earth , and , . creation , and jerus●lem were analogical , and not proper , so the . v. is wholly trop●cal and mystical . there shall be no more thence an infant of days ; how can thi● be understood litterally ? did not infants after as well , as un●er the captivity make up their weeke of dayes , months of weeks ? &c. it must needs relate to some thing under the jewish paedagogy , and nothing so probably as that of theirs , that nothing was clean till a sabbath had gone over it , and therefore according to divine institution circumcision was not ti●l the th ▪ day , mr. t. might have done well to have imparted us either his own or mr. gatakers descant on these word● , but because they could devise nothing that like the ears under the lions skin would not discover the who●e imposture , ne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quidem . answ. that jerusalem is analogical is not proved , nor doth it follow v. . is tropical , therefore also v. . any more then isa. , , . is allegorical , therefore also v. , , , , . mr. gatakers sense is plainly ●et down without any imposture in his annotations , which is this , there shall be no more thence brought to burial by reason of untimely ends , as formerly a child that hath not fulfilled hi● dayes , but shall live and attain to his just growth and full 〈◊〉 o● years . ] this sense is no● infringed by any thing mr. cr. sa●th , yea his question , did not infants &c. ●onfirms it . that it must needs relate to 〈◊〉 under the jewish paedagogy , is not proved , nor that the conceit nothing was clean till a sabbath was gone over it , was of the j●wish paedagogy , nor that it was the reason of circumcising the th . day , nor do i see what hi● , if it were granted , makes for his sense , there shall be no more an infant of dayes , that is infants shall not be uncapable of the seal while their age is measured by dayes , as the jews infants that might not be circumcised till a week had passed over them . for there is neither mention of seal nor in capacity of it , nor of circumcision , nor its limiting to the th . day , and mr. cr. leaves out [ thence ] that is from jerusalem , which shews it 's meant of infants there being , and so not of gentiles infants , and the prediction is of an event of great moment , not of a capacity of a thing which might never be in the event , and if it were is of small or no importance , nor is [ an infant of dayes ] well paraphrased by [ while their age is measured by dayes ] for an infant of dayes , is all one in regard of dayes an infant , or child as the opposite term on old man shews , and his expression is either non-sense , or else it is vain to suppose that a person is an infant while his age is measured by dayes , for a person of many years hath his age measured by dayes , and if the meaning be , an infant that hath his age measured by dayes , not by one day or some hours is capable of the seal , then it should imply that an infant of one day old is not . i am blamable for spending time in r●futing such fooleries , but the intolerable insolent brags of mr. crags dispute and scribling necessitates me . mr. cr. from isa . . argued thus , the childe shall die an hundred years old , or as well a churchmember as i● hee were an hundred years old , therefore children may bee bapt●zed under the gospel , and here p. . of me he saith , he denied the consequent which i made good first ab impossibili , because to take it literally would imply a contradiction . for it is impossible being a childe to die a hundred years old , childe is the subject of the question , which is to be taken properly without enallage , shall die an hundred years old , the predicate that cannot otherwise be affirmed of it but analogically resembling in s●me capacity and qualification them that dies an hundred yeares old . answ. this arguing is indeed childish like , as if it were argued luk. . . thou c●ilde shalt bee called the prophet of the highest , for thou shalt go before the face of the lord to prepare his wayes , to give knowledge of salvation ; ergo , this must bee understood analogically , childe is the subject of the question , which is to be taken properly without enallage ; and so this must be true of john baptist while hee was a childe . the like might bee said of luk. ● . . king . . he is but a childe that knowes not that in such passages as these there 's no need of imagining an analogical predication , but that they are to be understood sensu diviso , as when our lord christ saith luke . . the blinde see , the ●ame walk , the lepers are cleansed , the deaf hear , the dead are raised , that is , such as were blinde , lame , lepers , deaf , dead , not in sensu composito , such as are when they see , walk , are cleansed , hear are raised , so in the other place , not he that is a childe while he is a childe , but he that is now , or shall be once a child shall afore he dies be an hundred years old , which agrees with the rest of the verse , and v. . hands●hey ●hey being expressions of long life . and m. gataker 〈◊〉 rightly , the syntax is familiar , and as clear as the day light or sunshine : the childe or 〈◊〉 that now is ) shall die the son of years ; that is , shall be years old when he dieth . so gen. . . gen. . , &c. to which mr cr. insolently ●eplies , i had thought syntax had been gramatical construction according to rule , not literal interpretation , or univocal not analogical praedication . i say for master gataker that hee may think still that syntax is grammatical construction according to rule , not literal interpretation , mr. gataker saith nothing to the contrary ; yet literal interpretation is to be according to the rule of grammatical construction ; he may think syntax is neither univocal nor annalogical praedication , there may be syntax in imperfect speeches that are no enunciations , nor in them any predication of one thing on another , mr. cr. hath been a paed●gogue long enough to know , that which his school-boyes might tell him , there 's syntax between a noun adjective and substantive , a noun and a preposition , or interjection , where there is no predication . he adds of mr. gataker , and this syntax he says , it as clear as the day light , or sun shine , perhaps to an owle or bat. answ. yea , and too to as seeing men as mr. cr. though his eagle-eye be in this as dark as an owle or bat at noon . he goes on , and what is this syntax that is so clear ? the child or youth t●at now is , shall die the son of an hundred years , that is , shall be an hundred years old when he dieth ; the child or youth , there is one addition , for the text mentions not youth , which is a distinct age from childhood . answ. it may be an addition to the english translation , but not to the text , sith as mr. gataker shews the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is applied to joseph at years old , gen. . . to benjamin , gen. . . when he is deemed to have been above thirty but that 's the ill luck of it , that then it will not serve mr. crs. turn for his infant churchmembership visible in the time of the gospel mr. cr. adds , that now is , there is another , the child was not yet , it was a prediction ▪ answ. so it might be , and yet the child one that then was when isaiah spake it ; nor is it any more addition to the text then if he had said , the child that shall be ; nor any untruth in the speech as expounded by mr. gataker . mr. cr. goes on . there is a third [ son of ] by addition put in , old by substraction taken away ; excellent arithmetick ! besides here is a new creation of a new generation [ son of years ] who ever heard such a syntax ? did the son beget the years , or the years the son ? or whether is elder ? that is , shall be an hundred years when he dieth , here is an exposition of an exposition , and a fourth addition [ he and when ] being superadded . answ. it grieves me not so much that mr. cr. hath so much vilified my self , as that though he pretend to be a preacher of the gospel , yet like a terrae filius , or grammer reader , he should shew such contempt of a man then alive when he wrote it ( as i conceive by the date of his epistle ) however whether alive or dead , a man very reverend , and ( however he conceived of me ) one of the most learned and accurate writers ( specially in such things as this ) of his age , and while he slights him discover so much folly and ignorance in hebrew and greek , as an ordinary ●rammarian or student in the bible would hardly have shewed ; certainly it 's unsuitable to his undertaking of a schoolmaster . the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is word by word the son● 〈◊〉 hundred years , for without [ of ] it would be non-sense , it being the sig●● 〈◊〉 genitive case , nor is [ old ] substracted , but included in that expression , it being the hebrew expression of old or aged , as m. gataker shews from gen. . . & . . & . . & . ● & . . & . . & . . & . , . & . . & . . & . . and elswhere , and the same he might have learned from ainsworth annot. on gen. . ● , &c. hebr. son of . years , that is , going in his . year . an usual speech in the hebrew scripture of mens age or of beasts ; gen. . . exod . . . and for [ he and when ] how can they be said to be superadded , when the very term [ shall die ] is all one with [ when he shall die , ] which shews it is not for mr. crs. purpose , for then it should have been , shall be born as an hundred years old , as well a churchmember as if he were ; but is agreeable to the prophets meaning , to express long life : and therefore his jeer of excellent arithmetick shews his folly in deriding that which was right . and for his prattle , it shews his excellent ignoran●e of the hebrew and greek of the ●ible , bu●torf ▪ thes ▪ gram. hebr. l. . c. . p. , in that piece which is termed by amama , &c. admirandum opus 〈◊〉 , nomen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 filius periphrases & hebraismos facit ins●gnes : ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 filius areus iob . . id est s●gitta & similes innumeri . sic i●●an . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. apud latinos horat. . carm . od . . terr● filius , should one scribble as mr. cr. doth here , here 's a new creation of a new generation [ son of the bow , of perdition , of the earth ] who ev●r heard such a syntax ? did the son beget t●e bow , perdition , the earth , or the bow , perdition , the earth the son ? or whether is elder ? would not a scholler say he played the fool ? for this i leave him to mr. vaug●ans correction . but he seems to be more consid●rate in what follows . according to which interpretation , the words must carry this sense , there shall no more infants di● when they are young , nor an old man till he 〈◊〉 filled his days , for he that now is a child shall not die till he be an hundred years old , i wonder in what age this was performed , that no man died till he had compleated his century , no mortal disease , nor use of physitians , but every man might certainl● know the day of his death . answ. the words contain not such an absolute universal longaevity , as mr. cr. would make to be the consequent of our interpretation , but a length of days opposite to former troubles v. . in which so many died by war , famine , and pestilence , which therefore comparatively is reckoned as universal , as in like manner ieremiah ch . . . speaking of the same times saith the iniquity of israel shall be sought for & there shall be none ▪ that is , as formerly to provoke god to cut them off by g●ievous deaths , as before the captivity . and according to this i● that of zech. . . and i said without any vaunting nebuchadnezzar like language , as mr. cr. abusively chargeth me with isa. . . was rightly made by me answerable to zech . which doth not intimate , that the text was made by me , and not by the holy ghost , but made answerable , or correspondent , which arrogates no more to me then if i had said , made clear , made manifest , &c. nor is any experience or history contrary to this , that the iews after their return from babylon 〈◊〉 , prosperity , increase and long life in canaan a great while together , and were honoured by divers persian kings , alexander the great , and some of the ●recian kings , and the nations near them iu●ject to them . the contents of the chapter were never by any synod or parliament interpretatively entitled to the church of england , nor are to be accounted any more valid , then mr. gatakers notes , who though a single man , yet had his notes approved by other annotators , and in some sort by the assembly at westminster . yet the contents of the chapter being v. . the blessed estate of the new ierusalem , and in the margin at v. . revel . . . being put , shew , that mr. crs. conceit is no more favoured by them then mine . and the speech being to be understood comparatively to the former times , was true of the jews after their return from the captivity at babel . v. . exp●essing the jews peace notwithstanding the samaritan neighbours , was true at the same time , although both were accommodated to the gospel times , and the calling of the jews yet to come . nor is it any strange thing in that prophet to make th● restitution of the jews from captivity as answering to making new heavens and earth , as isa. . . & . , , . & . , . yet i deny not that pet . . revel . . . the words are rightly applied to some other great work of god resembled by this and to be yet accomplished . that the israelites cor. . . were actually baptized or washed under the cloud it raining upon them , and in the red sea , the water touching their feet at least , after the dividing of the waves in such a sudden passage , and blowing upon them with th● sprinkling thereof , is no where set down exod . and . n●r will such wetting be ever found in any greek authour to be termed baptism formally , and therefore it can be no other then similitudinary baptism which is there meant , as the eating manna and drinking water was a similitudinary partaking of the lords supper , and grotius did rightly expound [ cor. . . were baptised ] by [ were as if they were baptis●d ] and yet isa. . is not rightly so expounded shall die as an hundred years old , there being no need of such an interpretation , nor any thing leading to it in the text , but the expression is of long life ; nor if it were meant so , i● it proved that infants must be churchmembers , and capable of some seal under the gospel , unless there were no other w●y ▪ then that in respect of which he might be as one an hundred years old . had mr. cr. sought the clearing of truth , he had been willing to read out the whole that his dealing might not be taken for deceitfull . by my refutation of dr. savage in latin , some years since printed , it may appear wh●t●er text , dr. savage or the dr. of the chair did avoid my argument . the rest of m. crs. argumen●s are the same with what others have urged , and have been answered in this and the former parts as this review ; nor do i find that mr. cr. hath added any thing of moment to them , to which i need make further reply . as or his ●●●nts , quips , misrecitals or mistakes of my words , mis-reports of my actions , together with his own mistakes in logick , grammer , divinity , th●y are otherwise discernable then by a particular answer in print to each part of his book . i presume the christian and equal reader will think it unnecessary to make any more reply to what i● written of infant● baptism , till some thing be found written which better defends it then those have done who are here answered . if any other think it fi●● i should answer him also in particula● , he may conceive that if i did p●rceive any thing that might not have an answer in that which is already written , or had in it any difficulty , i should have done it : but being conscious to my fel● that i have not declined the answering of any out of contempt of the person , or sense of the difficulty of doing it , but because it is thought that i have been too large already , and that to answer every meer quirk of wit is unnecessary , as knowing that however light wit● that love to shew their skill in disputing be taken with them , yet solid conscientious men will be led onely with good proofs out of scripture which may shew the institution of christ , i do here supersede from this work and commend it to his blessing , of whom and through whom and for whom are all things , to whom be glory for ever . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e mr. gatakers annot. on jer. . . the former covenant comprehended , together with those spiritual promises , which yet were the principal part of it , many temporal blessings , as the possession of the land of canaan , and multiplicity of issue , and outward prosperity , gen. . , , . & . , , . psal. . . deut. . , . whereas this later runneth wholly upon the spiritual and celestial blessings , rom. . , . & . , . eph. . . heb. . . notes for div a -e see ainsworth annotations on gen. . . notes for div a -e vide gat●k . discept . de vi ▪ & effic . inf . baptism . pag. . a short confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession put forth by the elders of the baptist churches, owning personal election and final perserverance. keach, benjamin, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a short confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession put forth by the elders of the baptist churches, owning personal election and final perserverance. keach, benjamin, - . [ ], p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - haley pierson sampled and proofread - haley pierson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession , put for t 〈…〉 the elders of the bapti 〈…〉 churches , owning personal electio 〈…〉 final perseverance . acts . . after the way 〈…〉 heresy , so worship we the go 〈…〉 ther 's , believing all things wh 〈…〉 in the law and the prophets 〈…〉 london ▪ printed in the 〈…〉 the articles of the faith of the. church of christ , or congregation meeting at horsley-down , benjamin keach , pastor , as asserted this th of the th month , . london ; printed in the year . to the congregation with whom i am a member ( and the unworthy overseer ) who are in god the father , and in our lord jesus christ ; grace mercy and peace be multiplied . most dear and beloved in christ : i hope i can say ( with the holy apostle ) that you are by me dearly beloved , my joy , and my crown ; yea you are my honour , and in you i would rejoice , being the ornament of my poor ministry , by which the most of you have ( through the blessing of god ) been converted to jesus christ : and if you stand fast in the faith in one spirit , striving together for the faith of the gospel , and do adorn your profession , living in love , and endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , you will cause my latter days to be most sweet and comfortable to me , after all those troubles , sorrows , and reproaches i have met with , both from within and from without . evident it is god hath most eminently appeared to strengthen your hands : tho the archers have sorely grieved you , and shot at you , yet your bow abideth in strength ; and that the arms of your hands may still abide strong by the arm of the mighty god of jacob , shall be my continual prayers . my brethren , i here present you with that which you have so long waited for , and desired me to endeavour to do , viz. to state an account of the most concerning articles of your faith , which you have heard read , and have approved of , and which i thought good no longer to delay the doing of . ( . ) not knowing how soon i may put off this tabernacle , and therefore would leave behind me an account of that holy doctrine and order , in which through grace you are established ( for at your desire also i have drawn up the whole rules of your holy discipline , which you may have added unto this , and bound up together ) . ( . ) and the rather i have done this , because the general and more large confession of the faith of our churches , is now out of print ; but that is not all , for that being d. price , some cannot well purchase it . ( . ) and also that all men may see what our faith is , and that we differ not from our brethren who bear other names in any fundamental point or article of faith ; and that they may discern the difference between you and some that bear the same name with you . ( . ) tho you agree in the general with all other churches of the same faith , in all those articles there inserted , yet therein your whole faith is not comprehended , viz. that of imposition of hands upon baptized believers as such , and singing of god's praise , &c. because some of our churches dissent from us therein : yet my desire is you would nevertheless shew all tenderness , charity and moderation to such as differ from you in those cases , and not refuse communion with them ; and indeed your late sweet temper appears to be such , that i need not press you to this . all that i shall say more , is to entreat you to labour after holiness , and to awake out of sleep , that you may adorn your sacred profession , and prepare to meet the lord ; that as you have a good doctrine , you may also have a holy and good conversation ; and then we need not fear who can harm us , whilst we are followers of that which is good , o let us bear one with another . and if in any thing we differ , let us avoid all animosities . brethren , great things are near , watch and pray , look out and be ready . but at present i shall conclude with the words of the apostle , finally , brethren , farewel ; be perfect , be of good comfort , be of one mind , live in peace , and the god of love and peace shall be with you . so prays your unworthy brother , pastor , overseer , and servant , who earnestly desires your prayers also , from my house in freemans-lane by horsley-down , southwark . aug. . . b. keach . that the following articles contain what the foresaid church believes concerning those truths asserted therein , we whose names are hereunto subscribed , do testify in the name and by the appointment of the whole congregation , the th day of the th month , commonly called august , . benjamin keach , pastor . benjamin stinton , teacher . john roberts , edward foley , joshua farrow , tho. stinton , john valley , isaac ballard , deacons . john hoar , sen . edward newbury , tho. turner , john seamor , ephraim wilcocks , james wilmott , daniel dines , richard thoubals , john weston , john clark , tho. ayers , john york , george starkey , sen . benj. harris , george starkey , jun. john beavis , tho. hill , joseph berry , william farmworth , joseph jennings , john fowle , sen . tho. fowle , john fowle , jun. henry skeer , john greensmith , jeremiah lions , william putman , nath. holden , william cattrel , tho. harvey , tho. richford , joseph worley , peter carter , william forister , sam. cox. john sparke , james king , william deale , simon agars , john hoar , jun. tho. gunning , william mais . the articles of faith of the church of christ meeting at horsley-down . of god , and of the holy trinity . i. we do believe , declare and testify , that there is but one only living and true god , who is a spirit infinite , eternal , immense and unchangeable in his being , wisdom , power , holiness , justice , goodness , truth and faithfulness . ii. that there are three persons in the godhead , the father , the son , and holy spirit ; and that these three are one god , the same in essence , equal in power and glory . of the decrees of god. iii. that the decrees of god are his eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will , whereby for his own glory he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass , even those evils that his wisdom and justice permits for the manifestation of the glory of those his attributes : and that god executes his decrees in the works of creation and providence . of creation . iv. that the works of creation are god's creating all things of nothing by his word of power , in six days , and all very good . that god created man male and female , after his own image , in knowledg , righteousness , and holiness , with power and dominion over the creatures . of god's providence . v. we believe that god's works of providence are his most holy , wise , and powerful preserving , and governing all his creatures , and their actions . of the holy scriptures . vi. we believe the holy scriptures of the old and new testament are the word of god , and are the only rule of faith , and practice ; all things being contained therein that are necessary for us to know concerning god , and our duty unto him , and also unto all men. that all persons ought to read , hear , and understand the holy scriptures . that the light of nature , and works of providence , tho they declare plainly there is a god , yet not so effectually as the holy scriptures ; nor can we know without them how , and in what space of time god created all things . neither came we any other ways but by the holy scriptures to the knowledg of christ the blessed mediator ; which indeed none can savingly know but by the word and spirit of god. of original sin. vii . we do believe , that god having created man , he entered into a covenant of life with him , upon the condition of perfect obedience ; making the first adam a common head to all his seed : and that our first parents being left to the freedom of their own will , fell from the estate wherein they were created , by eating of the forbidden fruit : and that adam being set up as a publick person , we all sinned in him , and fell with him into a state of sin , of wrath and misery ; the sinfulness of which state consists in the guilt of adam's first sin , the want of original righteousness , and the corruption of our whole nature : from whence all actual sins proceed , as water out of a filthy and an unclean fountain . so that not only by imputation all men became sinners in the first adam , but also as the same corrupt nature is conveyed to all his posterity , who descend from him in ordinary generation . by this sin all mankind lost the image of god , and communion with him , being liable to all the miseries of this life , and to death it self ; and also are dead in sins and trespasses , and obnoxious to the wrath of god , and the eternal pains of hell for ever . hence we say that all are conceiv'd and born in sin , and are the children of wrath , even the elect as well as others , being wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body , and utterly indisposed and disabled to do any thing that is spiritually good , and wholly inclined with a strong propensity to all things that are evil . of man's free-will . viii . we believe man in his state of innocency had freedom of will to do good ; but by the fall he hath utterly lost all that power and ability , being wofully depraved in all the faculties of his soul ; there being in the will and mind of all naturally much enmity against god , and a total aversion to him , and to every thing that is spiritually good ; loving darkness , and rebelling against the light. but when a man is renewed by divine grace , tho there is no force put upon the will , yet it is made willing , and acts freely , in the day of god's power : tho the work is not perfect in any faculty in the regenerate , nor will be in this life . of christ the mediator . ix . we believe that god having , out of his own meer good pleasure , and infinite ▪ love , elected some persons of the lost seed of the first adam unto everlasting life , from all eternity , did enter into a covenant of grace with the second person of the trinity , ( who was set up as the common head of all the elect ) to deliver them out of the state of sin and misery , and to bring them into a state of salvation and eternal happiness . that the second person in the godhead , ( being the eternal son of god , coessential , and coequal with the father ) according to that holy covenant and compact that was between them both , became man , or assumed our nature , and so was , and continueth to be god and man in two distinct natures , in one person for ever . and that he the son of god by his becoming man , did take unto him a true body , and reasonable soul , being conceived by the holy spirit in the womb of the virgin , and was born of her , yet without sin. of the offices of christ . x. we believe that the lord jesus christ , who is our redeemer , and the one blessed mediator between god and man , executeth a threefold office , both the office of a priest , the office of a king , and the office of a prophet . first , that he executeth the office of a priest , ( . ) in his once offering up himself a sacrifice , to satisfy divine justice , and to reconcile god to us , and us to god. ( . ) and in making continual intercession for us , that the merits of his blood may be made effectual unto us . secondly , that he executeth the office of a king in subduing us unto himself , and in giving us laws and holy precepts , by which we ought to walk ; and also in his restraining and conquering all his , and our enemies . thirdly , that he executeth the office of a prophet , in revealing to us by his word and spirit , the whole will of god concerning all things that appertain to faith and practice . of christ's humiliation and exaltation . xi . we believe that christ's humiliation consisted in that great condescension of his in assuming our nature , and being born in a low condition , made under the law , undergoing the many miseries of this life , the wrath of god , the curse of the law , and the ignominious death of the cross , continuing under death for a time . and that his exaltation consisteth in his rising again from the dead the third day , and in his ascending up into heaven , in sitting at the right-hand of ▪ god ; angels , powers , and principalities being made subject unto him ; and in his being made judg of the quick and dead . of effectual calling . xii . we do believe that we are made partakers of the redemption purchased by christ , by the effectual application of his merits , &c. unto us by the holy spirit , thereby uniting us to christ in effectual calling : and that effectual calling is the work of god's free grace , who by his spirit works faith in us , who are altogether passive therein ; and convincing us of sin and misery , enlightning our minds in the knowledg of christ , and renewing our wills , and changing our whole hearts , he doth perswade and enable us to imbrace jesus christ freely , as he is offered in the gospel . of justification . xiii . we do believe justification is a free act of god's grace , through that redemption which is in christ , ( who , as our head , was acquitted , justified , and discharged , and we in him , when he rose from the dead ) and when applied to us , we in our own persons are actually justified , in being made and pronounced righteous , through the righteousness of christ imputed to us ; and all our sins , past , present , and to come , for ever pardon'd ; which is receiv'd by faith alone . and that our sanctification , nor faith it self , is any part of our justification before god ; it not being either the habit , or act of believing , or any act of evangelical obedience imputed to us , but christ , and his active and passive obedience only , apprehended by faith : and that faith in no sense tends to make christ's merits more satisfactory unto god ; but that he was as fully reconciled and satisfied for his elect in christ by his death before faith as after ; otherwise it would render god only reconcileable , ( not reconciled ) and make faith part of the payment or satisfaction unto god , and so lessen the merits of christ , as if they were defective or insufficient . yet we say , it is by faith that we receive the atonement , or by which means ( as an instrument ) we come to apprehend and receive him , and to have personal interest in him , and to have our free justification evidenced to our own consciences . of adoption . xiv . we believe adoption is an act of god's free grace , whereby such who were the children of wrath by nature , are received into the number , and have right to all the privileges of the sons of god ; and that such who are adopted , are also by the spirit regenerated , and hence said to be born of god. of sanctification . xv. that sanctification is the work of god's free grace also , whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of god , and are inabled more and more to die unto sin , and live unto righteousness . and that the benefits we receive , and which flow from or accompany justification , are adoption , sanctification , peace of conscience , manifestations of god's love , joy in the holy ghost , an increase of grace , an assurance of eternal life , and final perseverance unto the end . of the souls of men at death . xvi . we believe , that at death the souls of believers are made perfect in holiness , and do immediately pass into glory ; and their bodies dying in union with christ , or dying in the lord , do rest in their graves till the resurrection , when they shall be raised up in glory . and that their souls being reunited to their bodies , they shall be openly acknowledged , and acquitted , and made compleatly blessed , both in soul and body , and shall have the full injoyment of god to all eternity . and that the souls of the wicked at their death are cast into hell , or are in torment : and that their bodies lie in the grave under wrath , and shall by virtue of the power of christ be raised from the dead ; and their souls being re-united to their bodies , shall be judged and condemned , and cast into a furnace of fire , or into unspeakable torment , with the devil and his angels , for ever and ever . of the law. xvii . we believe god requires obedience of man , and that the rule of that obedience is the moral law as it is in the hands of christ ; which teacheth all persons their duty to god , and to man ; the sum of all being this , to love the lord our god with all our hearts , with all our souls , and with all our strength , and our neighbours as our selves . and that tho the law is abolished as a covenant of works , and as so considered , we are dead to it , and that dead to us ; yet it remains as a rule of life and righteousness for ever . xviii . we believe no mere man , since the fall , is able in this life perfectly to keep the holy law of god ; and that every offence against the law deserves eternal death , tho some sins are more heinous in god's sight than others . and that god , as a simple act of mercy , will not , doth not , pardon any man ; neither doth it seem consistent with his holiness and justice so to do , without a full satisfaction : wherefore he substituted christ in our room and stead , perfectly to keep the whole law , and to die , or bear that wrath which we deserved for our breaking of it ; he being pleased in his infinite love and grace to transfer our sins , guilt and punishment , upon his own son , ( who took our nature upon him , as our blessed head and representative ) that his active obedience and righteousness might be our just title unto eternal life ; and his death ( who bore our hell-torments ) be our full discharge from the wrath of god , and eternal condemnation . and that all who would receive this title , and have this discharge so as to escape god's wrath , and the curse of the law , must fly to christ , and lay hold on him by faith ; which faith is known by its fruits , having lively , sin-killing , soul-humbling , self-abasing , christ-exalting , and heart-purifying operations , always attending it . of faith and repentance . xix . we believe that faith is a saving grace , or the most precious gift of god ; and that it is an instrument whereby we receive , take hold of , and wholly rest upon jesus christ , as offered to us in the gospel . that repentance unto life is also a saving grace , whereby a sinner , out of a true sense of sin , and apprehension of god's mercy in christ , doth with grief and hatred of his sins , turn from them . and that tho repentance is in order of nature called the first principle of the doctrine of christ , yet we believe no man can savingly repent , unless he believes in jesus christ , and apprehends the free pardon and forgiveness of all his sins through the blood of the everlasting covenant , and the sight and sense of god's love in a bleeding saviour ; being that only thing that melts and breaks the stony heart of a poor sinner , as the sight of a free pardon from a prince humbles the stout heart of a rebellious malefactor . of the means of grace . xx. we believe that the outward and more ordinary means , whereby christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption , are his holy ordinances , as prayer , the word of god , and preaching , with baptism , and the lord's supper , &c. and yet notwithstanding it is the spirit of god that maketh prayer , reading , &c. and specially the preaching of the word , effectual to the convincing , converting , building up , and comforting , through faith , all the elect of god unto salvation . and that it is the duty of all , that the word may become effectual to their salvation , to attend upon it with all diligence , preparation , and prayer , that they may receive it with faith and love , and lay it up in their hearts , and practise it in their lives . of baptism . xxi . we believe that baptism is a holy ordinance of christ , or a pure gospel-institution ; and to be unto the party baptized , a sign of his fellowship with christ in his death , burial , and resurrection , and of his being grafted into him , and of remission of sins , and of his giving himself up to god , through jesus christ , to walk in newness of life . we also believe that baptism ought not to be administred to any but to those who actually profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . that the infants of believers ought not to be baptized , because there is neither precept , or example , or any certain consequence in the holy scripture for any such practice : and we ought not to be wise above what is written . and that a human tradition or custom ought not to be regarded , but that it is sinful , and abominable . we believe also that baptism is only rightly administred by immersion , or dipping the whole body in water , into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy spirit ; according to christ's institution , and the practice of the apostles ; and not by sprinkling , or pouring of water , or dipping some part of the body in water , after the tradition of men. and that it is the indispensible duty of such who are baptized , to give up themselves to some particular orderly church of jesus christ , and to walk in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless : baptism being an initiating ordinance . of a true church . xxii . we believe a true church of christ is not national , nor parochial , but doth consist of a number of godly persons , who upon the profession of their faith and repentance have been baptized , and in a solemn manner have in a holy covenant given themselves up to the lord , and to one another , to live in love , and to endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace : among whom the word of god is duly and truly preach'd ; and holy baptism , the lord's supper , and all other ordinances are duly administred , according to the word of god , and the institution of christ in the primitive church : watching over one another , and communicating to each other's necessities , as becometh saints ; living holy lives , as becomes their sacred profession ; and not to forsake the assembling themselves , as the manner of some is ; or to take leave to hear where they please in other places when the church is assembled , but to worship god , and feed in that pasture , or with that church , with whom they have covenanted , and given up themselves as particular members thereof . of laying on of hands . xxiii . we believe that laying on of hands ( with prayer ) upon baptized believers , as such , is an ordinance of christ , and ought to be submitted unto by all such persons that are admitted to partake of the lord's supper ; and that the end of this ordinance is not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , but for a farther reception of the holy spirit of promise , or for the addition of the graces of the spirit , and the influences thereof ; to confirm , strengthen , and comfort them in christ jesus ; it being ratified and established by the extraordinary gifts of the spirit in the primitive times , to abide in the church , as meeting together on the first day of the week was , act. . . that being the day of worship , or christian sabbath , under the gospel ; and as preaching the word was , acts . . and as baptism was , mat. . . and prayer was , acts . . and singing psalms , &c. was , acts . , . so this of laying on of hands was , acts . & ch . . for as the whole gospel was confirmed by signs and wonders , and divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost in general , so was every ordinance in like manner confirmed in particular . of the lord's supper . xxiv . we believe that the holy ordinance of the lord's supper , which he instituted the night before he was betrayed , ought to be observed to the end of the world ; and that it consisteth only in breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , in remembrance of christ's death ; it being appointed for our spiritual nourishment , and growth in grace , and as a farther engagement in , and to all duties we owe to jesus christ , and as a pledg of his eternal love to us , and as a token of our communion with him , and one with another . and that due preparation and examination is required of all that ought to partake thereof ; and that it cannot be neglected by any approved and orderly member without sin. of church-officers . xxv . we do believe that every particular church of christ is independent ; and that no one church hath any priority or super-intendency above or over another : and that every church ought to be organical : that an elder , or elders , a deacon , or deacons , ought to be elected in every congregation , according to those holy qualifications laid down in the word of god : and that the said elders and deacons so chosen , ought solemnly to be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership . that such churches as have not officers so ordained , are disorderly , there being something still wanting . of prayer . xxvi . we believe prayer is a holy ordinance of god , and that it ought to be performed by the help and assistance of the holy spirit ; and that not only the prayer christ taught his disciples , but the whole word of god is to be our rule how to pray , and pour forth our souls unto god : and that it is the indispensible duty of all godly families ( and others also ) as well as private christians , daily to pray for all things they need , and to give thanks every day for all good things they receive : and that the omission of this duty is a great scandal to religion , and a great evil when it is carelesly or negligently performed . of singing of psalms , &c. xxvii . we believe that singing the praises of god , is a holy ordinance of christ , and not a part of natural religion , or a moral duty only ; but that it is brought under divine institution , it being injoined on the churches of christ to sing psalms , hymns , and spiritual songs ; and that the whole church in their publick assemblies ( as well as private christians ) ought to sing god's praises , according to the best light they have received . moreover , it was practised in the great representative church , by our lord jesus christ with his disciples , after he had instituted and celebrated the sacred ordinance of his holy supper , as a commemorative token of redeeming love. of the christian sabbath . xxviii . we believe that one day in seven , ought to be solemnly observed in the worship of god ; and that by moses's law the jews and proselyted strangers were to keep the seventh day : but from the resurrection of christ the first day of the week ought by all christians to be observed holy to the lord , that being called the lord's day ; and the first time the church met together after christ's ascension was on the day of pentecost , which was the first day of the week , as tradition hath handed it down : and on that day the church also met together to break bread , and make collections for the poor saints : and no mention is made that any one gospel-church kept the jewish sabbath in all the new testament . and we believe that an apostolical precedent is equivalent to an apostolical precept in this case . of ministers , and their maintenance . xxix . we do believe that every brother that hath received a gift to preach , having first pass'd the probation of the church , and being regularly called by the same , ought to exercise the said gift to the edification of the church when desired ; and that no brother ought to take upon him to preach , until he has a lawful call so to do . moreover , we believe that it is the indispensible duty of every church , according to their ability , to provide their pastor , or elders , a comfortable maintenance ; as god hath ordained , that he that preaches the gospel , should live of the gospel , and not of his own labour ; but that he should wholly give himself up to the work of the ministry , and to watch over the flock , being to be freed from all secular business , and encumbrances of the world : and yet that it is abominable evil for any man to preach the gospel for filthy lucre sake , but he must do it of a ready mind . of the first covenant . xxx . we believe that the first covenant , or covenant of works , was primarily made with adam , and with all mankind in him , by virtue of which he stood in a justified state before the fall , upon the condition of his own perfect and personal obedience . but by the fall he made himself uncapable of life by that covenant . that the law god gave by moses to israel , was of the same nature of that given to adam , being a second ministration of it ; but not given for life , but to make sin exceeding sinful , and to shew how unable man was in his fallen state to fulfil the righteousness of god ; and so ( with the ceremonial law ) it was given in subserviency to the gospel , as a schoolmaster to bring sinners to christ . of the new and second covenant . xxxi . we believe the covenant of grace was primarily made with the second adam , and in him with all the elect , who as god-man , or mediator , was set up from everlasting as a common person , or as their head and representative ; who freely obliged or ingaged himself to the father for them , perfectly to keep the whole law in their nature that had sinned , and to satisfy divine justice by bearing their sins upon his own body , i. e. the guilt of all their sins , which were laid upon him : and that he sustain'd that wrath and curse in his body and soul , that was due to them for all their transgrestions : and having received their discharge from wrath and condemnation , he gives it out to all that believe in him , and obtain union with him , who are thereby brought actually into the said new covenant , and have a personal right to all the blessings thereof . of election . xxxii . we do believe that god from all eternity , according unto the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably decreed and ordained , for the manifestation of his own glory , some angels , and some of the lost sons and daughters of adam , unto eternal life ; and that their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished : and that others are left or passed by under a decree of preterition . and that those of manking that are predestinated and fore-ordained , are particularly and personally design'd unto eternal life : and these god , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and good pleasure of his will , did chuse in christ ( the head of this election ) unto everlasting glory , of his meer free grace , without any foreseen faith or obedience and perseverance therein , or any thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto ; and all this only to the praise of his own glorious grace . of final perseverance . xxxiii . we believe all those whom god hath chosen , and who are effectually called , justified , and sanctified in jesus christ , can neither totally , nor finally fall away from a state of grace ; but shall certainly persevere therein unto the end , and eternally be saved ; and this by virtue of their election , or the immutable decree of god , and the unchangeable love of god the father ; and by virtue of their union with christ , together with his death , resurrection , and intercession ; as also from the nature of the covenant of grace , and suretyship of christ ; and through the indwelling of the holy spirit , who abideth in them for ever . of the resurrection . xxxiv . we believe that the bodies of all men , both the just and unjust , shall rise again at the last day , even the same numerical bodies that die ; tho the bodies of the saints shall be raised immortal and incorruptible , and be made like christ's glorious body : and that the dead in christ shall rise first . of eternal judgment . xxxv . we believe that god hath appointed a day in which he will judg the world in righteousness by jesus christ , or that there shall be a general day of judgment , when all shall stand before the judgment-seat of christ , and give an account to him for all things done in this body : and that he will pass an eternal sentence upon all , according as their works shall be . of marriages . xxxvi . we believe marriage is god's holy ordinance , that is to say between one man and one woman : and that no man ought to have more than one wife at once : and that believers that marry , should marry in the lord , or such that are believers , or godly persons ; and that those who do otherwise , sin greatly , in violating god's holy precept : and that ministers as well as others may marry ; for marriage is honourable in all . of civil magistrates . xxxvii . we do believe the supream lord of heaven and earth hath ordained magistrates for the good of mankind : and that it is our duty in all civil and lawful things to obey them for conscience sake ; nay , and to pray for all that are in authority , that under them we may live a godly and peaceable life : and that we ought to render unto cesar the things that are cesar's , and to god the things that are god's . of lawful oaths . xxxviii . we do believe it is lawful to take some oaths before the civil magistrate ; an oath of confirmation being to put an end to all strife : nay , and that it is our duty so to do when lawfully called thereunto : and that those that swear , ought to swear in truth , in righteousness , and in judgment . of personal propriety . xxxix . we do believe that every man hath a just and peculiar right and propriety in his own goods , and that they are not common to others ; yet we believe that every man is obliged to administer to the poor saints , and to the publick interest of god , according to his ability , or as god hath blessed him . finis . postscript . there is something contained in the th article that may seem to want some explication , in these words ( speaking of a man actually and personally justified ) that his sins past , present , and to come , are all forgiven : we believing that if any sins of a justified person were afterwards charged upon him , it must of necessity make a breach in his unalterable and everlasting justification , which is but one act in god ; hence there is no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus : yet i find an able and worthy writer distinguisheth pardon of sin thus , viz. . fundamentally in christ , as a common person of all the elect before faith , which lieth in christ making full satisfaction for all their sins , meriting faith for them , &c. . actual , of all the elect in christ on believing ; this actual pardon being nothing else but the actual possession in their own persons of their fundamental pardon in the person of christ : and dr. tho. goodwin speaks to the same purpose , to which i agree . and that this actual pardon of the legal guilt is twofold . . formal , of all their sins past , removing their legal guilt . . virtual , of all their sins to come , preventing their legal guilt . dr. ames speaks to the same purpose , and many others . i cannot see how a believer should be for ever formally justified from all sins past , present , and to come , and yet not formally pardoned . this author which i have lately met with , distinguisheth well between legal guilt and gospel guilt ; the first obliging to divine wrath , or eternal punishment ; the latter , i. e. gospel guilt , obliging to gospel , or fatherly chastisement for gospel-sins . now i see not but that as soon as a believer is personally justified , all his sins , tho not yet committed , as to legal guilt , or vindictive wrath , i. e. that guilt that obliges to eternal condemnation , are pardoned , for the reason before . saith he , virtual pardon keeps off legal guilt where it would be . to which i reply , if it be kept off , so that it never comes upon believers , then it follows they were actually pardon'd before in that respect : yet he says , sins cannot be said to be formally pardon'd before formally committed ; but says , no guilt can come upon them to condemnation , tho new guilt ; yet no new legal guilt , because always justified . we see no hurt if his terms be admitted . object . what do believers then pray for , when they pray for the pardon of sin ? answ . . that god would not chastise them sorely , or afflict them as a father , according to the greatness of their offences . . that if his chastning hand is upon us , he would be pleased graciously to remove it . . that he would be pleased to clear up to our consciences , or give us the evidence of our pardon through christ's merits , and that we may know we are compleat in christ , or without spot before the throne in our free justification . . nay , believers are to pray to god to remove that sin from them ( saith this worthy author ) whose desert of punishment cannot be removed from it ; and to spread their sins before the lord in the highest sense of the deepest demerit of all legal punishment , so that they may put the higher accent upon the free grace of god , and estimate upon the full satisfaction of christ , whereby their persons are so fully freed from all actual obligation to any legal punishment , the whole and utmost whereof their sins deserve . . moreover , that god would continue , and never revoke his most gracious pardon , till he pronounceth the final sentence of it at the day of judgment , ( as well this author notes ) for a renewed sense and assurance of its grant and continuance : and thus to pray , saith he , there are both precepts and promises . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e joh. . . job . , , . psal . . . jam. . . exod. . . rev. . . deut. . . exod. . , . mat. . . joh. . . eph. . , . rom. . , . gen. . heb. . . gen. . , , . col. . . eph. . . tim. . . eph. . . joh. . . deut. . . rev. . . acts . . gen. . & . , . joh. . , . & . . gen. . 〈◊〉 , . eccl. . . rom. . . joh. . . tit. . . rom. . . gen. . . jer. . . rom. . , , , , , &c. jam. . . cor. . . rom. . . rom. . . col. . . mat. . . rom. . , , , , , . lam. . . rom. . . gal. . . job . . & . . & . . col. . . tit. . . psal . . . eph. . , . gen. . . rom. . , , , , , , . ephes . . , . rom. . . job . . ephes . . . col. . . psal . . . rom. . , , , , . ephes . . . rom. . , , . gal. . , . tim. . , . joh. . . galat. . . rom. . . luke . . col. . . heb. . , . phil. . . zech. . . joh. . . tim. . . heb. . . mat. . , . luke . , , , . gal. 〈…〉 heb. . 〈…〉 tim. . . heb. . . heb. . . act. . , , . joh. . . heb. . . & . . & . . isa . . . & . , . cor. . . psal . . acts . . job . . . pet. . , , , joh. . . & . . gal. . . heb. . . isa . . , . luk. . mat. ▪ phil. . . cor. . . acts . , , , , . cor. ● . . mark . . eph. . . acts . . & . ▪ pet. . . joh. . . tit. . , . eph. . , . cor. . . eph. . . eph. . . cor. . . tim. . . thess . . , . acts . . & . . ezek. . . john . , . rom. . , , , . eph. . , . tit. . . rom. . , , , . cor. . cor. . act. . . cor. . . phil. . , , . rom. . . john . . john . . rom. . . gal. . . john . , . & . . & . . thess . . . eph. . . rom. . , 〈◊〉 . . rom. . , . rom. . , , . & . . prov. . joh. . . pet. . 〈◊〉 . cor. . . mat. . mat. . joh. . . cor. . . thess . . , . cor. . , phil. . . . luk ▪ pet. . , . luke . , . acts . . pet. . ps . . . john . , . thess . . , . mich. . . sam. . . rev. . . mat. . mat. . , , , . joh. . . rom. . , gen. . . rom. . , , , , &c. ezek. . . joh. . ps . , , . exod. . ▪ rom. . , . gal. . . isa . . , , , , . pet. . . rom. . . john . . john . . . heb. . , , . col. . . acts , . acts . . job . . pet. . . john . . john . . isa . . , . phil. . . ephes . . . acts . . joel . . jer. . . & . , . ezek. . . cor. . isa . . , heb. . , . zec. . . acts . . mat. . , . acts . , , . neh. . . cor. . , . acts . psal . . . rom. . , . acts . rom. . , , , , . prov. . . pet. . , . ps . . heb. . . thess . . . jam. . . pet. . cor. . . mat. . , . rom. . , , . col. . , . gal. . . acts . . & . . acts . . col. . , . rev. . prov. . . mat. . , . mat. . . joh. . . acts . . rom. . . col. . . acts . , . & . , . pet. . . luke . . acts . , , . eph. . . acts . , , , , , , , &c. cor. . , . heb. . . heb. . . & . , . acts . & . . eph. . , . acts . & . 〈…〉 heb. . , . a ▪ ▪ ●at . . , , . mark . , , . luke . , . cor. . , , , , . acts . . tim. . , , &c. tit. . . tim. . — . tit. . , , , . acts . . tim. . . & . . phil. . . psal . . . john . . pet. . . rom. . . john . . psal . . . eccl. . , . jam. . . eph. . . cor. . . col. . . josh . . . gen. . . jer. . . eph. . . col. . . acts . heb. . . jam. . . mat. . mar. . exod. . rev. . . act. . , . acts . . cor. . tim. . . eph. . . pet. . rom. . , . cor. . — . rom. . ● . gal. . . tim. . . pet. . . gen. . . rom. . . rom. . . & . to . rom. . , . cor. . , . rom. . , , , , , , . gal. . . zech. . . rom. . , , , . isa . . , , , . rom. . . heb. . , , . heb. . . luk. . 〈…〉 cor. . 〈…〉 rom. . 〈…〉 & . , , . rom. . , , . acts . . rom. . . 〈◊〉 . thess . . , . 〈…〉 ph . . , , . thess . . . rom. . , , , . joh. . , . rom. . , rom. . 〈…〉 , 〈…〉 tim. . cor. . . acts . . cor. . . eccles . . gen. . . mat. . . cor. . . eph. . . rom. . . heb. . . rom. . , , . tit. . . pet. . : mat. . . exod. . . jer. . . gen. . . neh. . . heb. . , . exod. . . acts . . & . . notes for div a -e rom. . . mr. tho. gilbert . dr. ames saith , that not only the sins of a justified person that are past are remitted , but also in some sort those to come , num. . . joh. . . yet he distinguishes between a formal and virtual pardon : sins past , says he , are remitted in themselves , sins to come , in the subject o● person sinning . the forerunner to a further answer (if need be) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered, particularly mr. calvin, mr. finch, and his little præcursor : to which is prefixed, the solid testimony of mr. george wither, against calvinism, the worst of doctrines / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the forerunner to a further answer (if need be) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered, particularly mr. calvin, mr. finch, and his little præcursor : to which is prefixed, the solid testimony of mr. george wither, against calvinism, the worst of doctrines / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . wither, george, - . p. s.n., [london? : ] caption title. place and date of publication suggested by wing. imperfect : stained and slightly faded. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng finch, martin, ?- . -- answer to mr. thomas grantham's book, called, a dialogue between the baptist and the presbyterian. calvinism -- controversial literature. baptists -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the forerunner to a further answer ( if need be ) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich : wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered ; particularly mr. calvin , mr. finch , and his little praecursor . to which is prefixed , the solid testimony of mr. george wither against calvinism , the worst of doctrines . by tho. grantham , preacher of glad tidings to all men in the city of norwich . mr. george wither , a man of great judgment in many things , and a faithful monitor of the english nation for many years ; did , in the year , publish his parallellogrammaton ; wherein he does much perswade to repentance and brotherly-love . and observing some great impediments to both , in p. , &c. he considers the doctrine of the calvinists , in denying universal redemption , to be a very great obstruction thereunto . and thus he declares himself . i will be bold to aver — that the brotherly love and true repentance , whereto i would perswade , will never be effectually attain'd unto by them , which knowingly , premeditately , and wilfully persevere in denying the universal redemption of mankind by jesus christ ; seeing thereon depends god's most glorious attribute ; and in regard it is that for which we are much more obliged to him than all the rest of his creatures , he cannot but be highly displeased with all those who confine the extent of that mercy . i know many in these times ( some of them in other respects very good and learned men ) who think universal redemption to be a new doctrine , terming it arminianism and popery : but it is neither new , nor repugnant ( as is pretended ) to the orthodox doctrine of election and reprobation , and the free grace of god ; nor ascribes ought more to nature by the consequences thereof , than tends to our justifying of god , and to our self-condemnation , if that which he hath given us be not husbanded according as he hath and doth enable . the holy scriptures evidence it to all who rightly understand them . so far is it from being a novelty , ( as ignorant hearers are made to believe ) that it was received and professed for a necessary truth by the churches of god in all ages since christ's birth , and contradicted by very few in the first times of christianity : yea , it was believed many hundreds of years before arminius was born , or popery had any being in the world ; and will be professed , when the opposers and traducers of that verity shall be quite rooted out of the evangelical kingdom — it is the well-counterfeiting of truth and holiness which must compleat the designs of antichrist ; and there is not any one single heresy or wickedness , which doth so secretly , and so mischievously supplant christ ; it undermines the foundation of that structure which open blasphemies above-ground cannot endanger , and hath already sprung a mine to the dividing of lutherans and calvinists , that they will hardly be reconciled until all controversies are at an end . let us therefore consider well what depends upon it ; how much it concerns the glory of god ; how much he is dishonoured by a contrary belief , and how much it detracts from our own privileges and consolations . god's mercy is above all his works . it is the crown and dignity of the king of kings , and the highest of all treasons to clip it . a professed denial of the universality of humane redemption , seems to me a cursed counter-callol , made and sung by devils , in opposition to that blessed nativity-song which was sung by angels at the birth of christ , glory to god on high , on earth peace , and good will to men. for how was god likely to be glorified , peace to be upon earth , and good will to men , manifested by the incarnation of his son , if man's redemption had not been universal ? but so narrowed , that it extended to a very few , and those few also left without assurance they were of that small number , whatsoever they should endeavour , if there should be an exception from the act of grace , as many fancy ? doubtless if it had been so , it would have given occasion rather of howling than of singing , and been rather sad than glad tidings , in regard of that great terror which might have seized upon all mankind , and caused an universal lamentation , when they considered how many millions of millions were certainly exposed to everlasting damnation ; how small a number in possibility to be saved , and how few of their dearly beloved parents , children , and friends might be of these few , for whom christ took upon him humane nature . o horrible and unparallel'd blasphemy ! but , blessed be god's name , it is not so . when the children of israel were redeemed out of their egyptian bondage , which was a type of our ●●●versal redemption , there was not one soul , no not a hoof left behind them ; nor was one soul absolutely excluded from the benefit of christ's incarnation and passion , but they only who by their own defaults , and unrepented sin , should fall away , as they did who perished in the wilderness . for god hath many a time , upon several occasions , pa●sed his word to ascertain the universality of his love to man without personal respects , where personal sins without repentance , have not first made the person uncapable . nay ▪ our incredulity hath put him to his oath to assure every sinner . and if nevertheless we still distrust him , continue in our misbelief of his word and oath , and labour to draw others into the same crime ; it cannot be an ordinary punishment which god will at last inflict for so extraordinary and so high an affront ; it being a sin more hainous than murder , adultery , and all other meer carnal sins put together ; yea , more hainous than those the jews committed by their idolatries , killing the prophets , and crucifying christ in the flesh ; for the last was but a sin against his humanity , and their idolatries but the ascribing some part of that honour to the creatures , which was due to god only : whereas the limiting god's universal grace in christ with the concomitant doctrines , and the consequences thence raised , and the imputing to god an eternal reprobation of the greatest part of mankind , before they had done good or evil ; for those sins also which they blasphemously say he necessitated them to commit , to shew his justice , and manifest his hatred to sin , is a despoiling god of his divine nature , of his goodness , and an ascribing unto him that which belongs only to the devil . o the patience of god! what can be so abominable ? they do not only make reprobation older than the father of it the devil , but make god also the author of his wickedness , in necessitating him to be a devil , and consequently author of all the wickedness committed by all the devils in hell , and all the wicked men upon the earth : which appears to me so horrible an impiety , that i wonder not to see the world so full of plagues and sins , and sins and sinners become such plagues to each other as they are . nor can i believe there will ever be less plagues , where that blasphemy is professed and indulged as orthodox doctrine , until it be repented of . nor shall i marvel if my words be misunderstood , and my good meaning misinterpreted ; if god's word be so mistaken , and his love so ill-rewarded . i know the bitterness and uncharitableness of their spirits , who shall be obstinate in this judgment , yet am neither afraid nor ashamed to declare my conscience therein ; or in whatsoever else i think may concern god's glory , and the peace of my country . thus far mr. geo. wither . th● forerunner to a further answer ( if occasion serve ) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich . briefly shewing the spirit and temper of the calvinists , and particularly of mr. finch and his praecursor , &c. wickedness proceedeth and cometh forth from the wicked , as saith the proverb of the ancients , sam. . . in psal . . ▪ this question is put , shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee , which frameth mischief by a law ? the sense of the place is , no such thing can please god , &c. now of all mischief , sin is the worst , and indeed the cause of all the rest . it must therefore be exceeding evil , for any to make the holy god the ordainer and commander of all the sins of angels and men , and that freely , without any provocation , and infallibly and unchangeably also , that they must even so come to pass as he hath ( not only ) foreseen them , but ordained and commanded them . this is the doctrine which i chiefly opposed in my dialogue . and though i have made this very manifestly appear to be the doctrine of the principal men of the presbyterian and calvinistical perswasion , yet i will here add one passage more out of mr. calvin , inst . l. . c. . sect. . where he boldly tells us , that god doth none otherwise foresee the things that shall come to pass , than because he hath ordained they shall so come to pass . it is vain to move controversy about foreknowledge , where it is certain rather by ordinance and commandment . so then , let the action be never so wicked , he makes it infallibly necessary , by virtue of god's ordinance and commandment . than which i do aver ▪ nothing can be spoken more dishonourable to god , nor more mischievous to men. yea , zanchius is as bold as calvin , for he saith , damus reprobos necessitate p●●candi , eoque & pereundi , ex hac dei ordinatione constringi , atque ita constringi ut nequeant non peccare atque periere : that is , we grant that reprobates are held so fast under god's almighty decree , that they cannot but sin and perish . these i call the worst doctrines in the world. and finding this worst of doctrines to have much prevailed in the city of norwich , i have endeavoured to make the citizens sensible of the danger of it , both by preaching and writing . for which work and labour of love ( and to their souls especially who are most deceived by it ) i have been ill requited by many slanders and reproaches ; and particularly by a very foolish pamphlet , as a forerunner to that book of mr. finch , which he calls , an answer to my dialogue , [ which scurrilous pamphlet was published with his privity and allowance , as i suppose ] in both which , one great design is , to disgrace my person by unseemly epithets , and very false stories ; and particularly for that which i writ against calvin for his rage and cruelty , in procuring one michael servetus to be burnt to death at geneva , anno . concerning which the pamphleteer calls calvin , a renowned man a star of the first magnitude ; and servetus , an infamous wretch ; and my self , a paultry groveling fellow . and mr. finch calls me , a boisterous quarrelsom man , one that hath the spirit of slumber , as a check and punishment to defame such a man as calvin ; and to extol servetus , an antitrinitarian ; and says , i have lost all credit and esteem with all wise and knowing christians . but yet i hope all wise and knowing christians will hear me speak for what is truth , and so for my self also before they condemn me . and , . wherein do i defame calvin ? that he did certainly procure the death of servetus , a very learned man , and of that exact life , that nothing is objected against him , though i doubt he did err in some things ; i sa 〈…〉 at calvin did procure his death ▪ is p 〈…〉 he saith , i freely confess the accuser came out from me , i hope at the least he shall be put to death * . i have not then defamed calvin , unless mr. finch and his little lawyer can justify that cruel action ; as indeed they seem willing so to do , by approving dr. owen his sentence , who tells us , as mr. finch quotes him , p. . that servetus is the only person in the world that he ever heard of , that ever died upon the account of religion , in reference to whom the zeal of them that put him to death may be acquitted . and thus mr. finch , dr. owen , &c. have bathed their hands in the blood of poor michael servetus . behold , and wonder ! and wonder the more , because neither of them ever saw the book which servetus died for , but take their grounds from the pens of his murderers , who would not speak the best of him you may be sure . but , . wherein do i extol servetus ? i said he was a learned and worthy man , and pious , tho mistaken in some things perhaps . and do i not call him pious in conjunction with calvin ? now i conceive that in charity , i may hope many were pious men , who did not rightly understand the mystery of the trinity . yea , i have the charity to think , that calvin was a pious man , and yet i believe and know that he was very erroneous in many things , and that he was acted by cain's spirit , when he procured the death of servetus , who could not deny either the father , son , nor holy spirit , because he held true baptism in the name of all the three ; though i fear his sentiments were not so clear as they ought to have been concerning the unity of these three . and who can say that he so fully knows this great and glorious mystery as he ought to do ? i am far from justifying servetus in his error , yet i think they ought to have spared his life , though they had laid some restraint upon him . . let us hear what learned protestants have said before me , in the case of servetus . . grotius , a man that had but few equals for wisdom and moderation , tells us ; servetus libri non genevae tantum , sed in aliis locis , per calvini diligentiam exusti sunt ; fateor tamen unum me exemplum vidisse libri servetiani , in quo certe ea non reperi quae ei objicit calvinus , vot . pro p●ce , p. . that is , by the diligence of calvin , all the books of servetus were not only burnt at geneva , but in other places . yet i have seen one copy of servetus ' s books , in which truly i do not find the things which calvin does object against him . and saith dr. pierce , ( a learned and able minister of the church of england ) servetus was burnt at geneva for less than being a socinian , and who was not so bad as mr. b. ( a presbyterian ) hath laboured to fancy me . and he tells us also , that oecolampadius ( a learned protestant ) was offended at the barbarity of the sentence . nor find i any thing ( saith he ) pretended against servetus , which was so highly blasphemous , as to make god the author or cause of sin. and how well calvin could tell his own tale , and how diligent he was in being the first informer of his affairs , we may guess by his epistles , , , which he writ to the four helvetian cities for gaining authority to his new device — for , let them say what they please to lessen the guilt of that cruelty , yet they are parties , and must not so easily be heeded as other men who are none . if servetus his books were so blasphemous , why was calvin so diligent in burning up the impression which he should rather have preserved , that posterity might see some competent cause for such a terrible execution ? yet , by the providence of god , one or two of the copies escap'd the flames ; and we are assured , by peerless grotius , that in the copy which he saw , he could not find those things which were objected by mr. calvin ; what melancton wrote , it was meerly on supposition that calvin's narrative was true . thus far the learned pierce , in dislike calvin ' s cruelty against servetus . and by this we may perceive , how little credit there is to be given to dr. owen and mr. finch , or his little praecursor , not one of them having seen the book which they condemn , but receive their information from them that were his murderers . and grant that servetus did err in that great mystery of the trinity , yet must he for this be burnt to death ? why then , dr. owen , mr. finch , and his little lawyer , would make bloody work , even in england , where there are too many who are as erroneous concerning that glorious mystery , as servetus was , ( the more is the pity ) ; for seeing they justify calvin in that bloody act , how can they refuse doing the like , were it in their power , unless they will come short of that zeal which they commend in mr. calvin ? by this print of the foot , we may know the stature of that monster of persecution , which did not the law restrain , would appear in too many professors at this day . i speak what i know by the usage i have met with in this city , both from professors and prophane . . now let us hear how famous mr. calvin was in the judgment of some learned and sober protestants . ( . ) he is thought to err in the mystery of the trinity as well as servetus , though perhaps not so much . these are his words , ( speaking of the three persons , &c. ) if the names have not without cause been invented , we ought to take heed , that in rejecting them , we be not justly blamed of proud presumptuousness . i would to god ( says he ) they were buried indeed , so that this faith were agreed of all men , that the father , son , and holy spirit , are one god ; and yet the father is not the son , nor the holy ghost the son , but distinct by certain properties . institut . l. . c. . sect. . and this his tres proprietates , is objected against him by some of the learned protestants . and i am of opinion , should i write of the blessed trinity as mr. calvin has done , mr. finch and his forerunner would cry out blasphemy . ( . ) he condemns the ancient fathers , because they were not of his mind in the case of irrespective reprobation , but hold , that there was salvation for all men through god's mercy in the gift of his son. he brands them ( saith a learned protestant ) as pelagianising in their opinions . but ( . ) his rudeness of speech was intolerable : he called great and good men by titles unseemly ; as serpent , pest , lossel , fool , knave , devil , filthy dog , impudent hangman , &c. and bucer ( a learned protestant ) calls him , fratricide , a murderer of his brethren . and grotius says , he grew worse and worse ; and that calvin ' s disciples are such themselves in disposition , as they make god to be in their imaginations towards the greater part of mankind . and truly this is too apparent in two of his followers , i mean , the little praecursor and mr. finch , whose study has been to render me very odious , though i am sure they know no evil by me , more ( no nor so much ) as they know by themselves . and yet thus i am represented by them , viz. audacious , impudent , turbulent , impetuous , impertinent , scurrilous , prejudic'd mechanick ; a fool , despicable , wise mr. grantham , a despised man , coxcomb , addle-brain , dull kitching-pate , clown , blunderbuss , dissembling prater , brawler , bellowing , hideous , bleat , thick-skull momus , one decreed to steal , wrangling fellow , dolt , poor fop , soft-pated clod , caviller , brazen-●orehead , inconsiderate fellow , gagling goose , a quarrelsome boisterous man , one that has lost all credit and esteem with all wise and knowing christians that worship the holy trinity ; one , like a woman scolding and quarrelling in the streets , one like an impertinent woman , &c. so that i think these two calvinists have come near the pitch of their master . and such as will not spare mens reputation , are not to be trusted with their lives , any more than mr. calvin . . there is one thing which runs through mr. f's epistle and book , and that is a talk of special discriminating grace . as if god's grace , which he gives to most men , were of little use for them that have it ; yea , of no use at all , in respect of eternal life . all that mr. f. allows that grace to effect for them in the other world , is only to make their punishment less in hell , as you may see in p. . of his answer ; which is a piece of as woful divinity as ever was heard surely . reader , i humbly advise thee to take heed how thou receivest these dictates , and esteem all ( even the least measure of grace from god ) to be a special favour , and such as in its nature and effect ( if it be all that ●e design'd for thee , be it never so little ) will certainly lead thee to heaven , thou being a faithful improver of it , sincerely , though under many infirmities ; and this through his own goodness , in christ jesus our lord , who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time , tim. . . ( . ) again observe , that these terms , discriminating grace , &c. are not found in the scripture ; nor wisely made use of to render some of god's grace not to be discriminating , ( as they please to phrase it ) . we know god gives more talents to some than he does to others , yet grace is the same in nature and efficacy , if improved , and to leave the receiver under unpardonable guilt if not improved , mat. . and we shall only be accountable for what god gives to each one , and for no more ; nor will he deal in severity , but where his grace hath been contemned . ( . ) consider that very many of those who most talk of discriminating grace , are greatly destitute of that tender love which paul had for them that rejected christ , rom. . , , . & . , , . but are filled with hatred against all that oppose their conceit of irrespective reprobation ; being indeed fierce and of a cruel disposition , full of passion , quickly angry , &c. these things i have found to be true ( god knows it ) among such as pretend very high to discriminating grace more than amongst others : but i fear it will prove but a special discriminating conceit in the end to very many of them . . there is a great talk also , both in his epistle and book , about god's absolute soveraignty . as if because he is so , he might make angels and men on purpose to damn them to everlasting fire , without giving them ( at any time ) any means sufficient to prevent their destruction . to avoid this rock upon which they often split themselves , let us consider , that though god's soveraignty is incomprehensible , yet it is every way better both in its mercy and justice , and in the exercise of both , than any soveraignty that men do receive or exercise under him . now we know , that what prince soever exerts his soveraign power , to impose absolute impossibilities upon his subjects , and death for non-performance , is a very cruel and unrighteous prince in the exercise of that soveraignty . such was pharaoh , exod. . condemned by god and man. o how ill would it become a prince to cut off the feet of many of his subjects , and then gibbet them alive , because they do not run as well as those whose feet he spared ? and yet even thus do these calvinists represent the most merciful soveraign that ever was : for they hold and teach , that god did freely and unchangeably decree , precisely such a number of angels and men , women and infants , to be damned , and that unspeakable time , before there was either angel or man created ; and this , not because god foresaw they would sin , and despise the riches of his goodness ; but he also ordained them that they should commit so many sins , yea , all the sins that they ever shall or can commit , that so he might glorify the soveraignty of his justice ( as they speak ) in such a voluntary and dismal destruction of his creatures . . these things i made evident from the learned calvinists own pens , as alledged against them by their fellow protestants ; and mr. finch is so far from answering them , that he plainly tells you , he will not meddle with any of my quotations , and yet he calls his book an answer to mine . he says also , he will not justify all the phrases of learned and godly men ; and thus he will hold to their opinion , but not to their phrases . hence he likes not dr. collings's using the phrase , as if god did not seriously act , &c. when indeed he makes the case far worse : for tho peter told the jews , god sent christ to them to bless them , in turning every one of them from their iniquities , mr. f. tells you , it was far from peter ' s meaning , p. . and when our saviour bewails israel , for not knowing the things that belonged to their peace ; mr. f. tells us , christ did not weep for their spiritual peace , but to prevent their ruin by the romans ; as if christ did more tender their bodies than their souls : it seems he had ordained the devil should lead them to hell , but for this christ would not weep as a mediator , but he wept as man only for that they should be destroyed by the romans ; and yet , if you sound him to the bottom , it was infallibly and unchangeably decreed by christ as god , that they should be destroyed by the romans , for he holds that god did unchangeably decree whatsoever comes to pass . o unwise expositor ! and thus does he abuse most of the texts which he meddles with , which speak of god's love to mankind universally , as every careful reader may perceive : and very unworthily declares , that god hath many holy ends in affording the preaching of the word to many , upon whom he never purposed nor intended to bestow special and saving grace , p. . and what is this , but to tell the world , that god meerly mocks the greatest part of men to whom the gospel is preached ? for whatever he speaks by the gospel to them , he never intended them any salvation by it . and thus mr. finch , and all such preachers as he is , are meer hypocrites , for they cannot intend any salvation to all they preach unto , but only to a very few ▪ and they know not so much as one of them . nay , so greedily does he fancy that god will absolutely damn the greatest part of mankind ; that he will not spare the poor dying infants , but cast them into hell also ; and his reason is , that as men do kill the young cubs of foxes and wolves , though they never yet did any mischief , so god may , if he please , glorify his justice upon infants , though they die in their infancy ▪ p. , . and thus our gracious god is made more cruel to his off-spring , ( for such is all mankind , acts . . ) than the very wolves and foxes are to their young ones . an● what is now become of that gracious speech of almighty god , psal . . his tender mercies are over all his works ? sure , damned infants have no share at all in his mercy , no not so much as a toad by a thoasand degrees . o ye fools , when will ye be wise ? psal . . . mr. finch quarrels with the title of my book , and says , we read of john the baptist , not of thomas the baptist . but this only shews his weakness ; i speak not of thomas the baptist . i intend by the baptist , all that own the doctrine and baptism of repentance for remission of sins , including john the baptist as the first teacher of that baptism , for the manifestation of christ to israel , and that all men through him might believe , john . , . this doctrine mr. finch and the presbyterians do oppose , both in the extent of this blessed object of faith for all men , by narrowing it up to they know not who , and therefore preach they know not what . and also by sprinkling poor infants ( many times fast asleep ) in opposition to john the baptist , who baptized repentant believers in the river , or where there was much water , mark . . john . . mr. finch also quarrels my office as a messenger of the baptized churches , &c. but of this i have given an account , in my book intituled , christianismus primitivus , to which i refer the inquisitive reader , and remain , norwich , aug. . . a friend and servant to all men , for jesus's sake , tho. grantham . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e the calvinists make god to establish all the mischievous actions of men and devils by an unalterable decree , so as that they must be done of necessity . o horrible ! * libenter fateor ( inquit calvinus de se ) ac prae me fero prodisse accusatorē , spero capitale saltem feret judicium . calv. ep. ad farret . christianismus redivivus christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also mr. baxters scripture proofs are proved scriptureless ... / by samuel fisher ... fisher, samuel, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing f estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) christianismus redivivus christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also mr. baxters scripture proofs are proved scriptureless ... / by samuel fisher ... fisher, samuel, - . baxter, richard, - . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed by henry hills, and are to be sold by francis smith at his shop ..., london : . errata: p. [ ]. numerous errors in paging. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose 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likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. baptists -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion christianismus redivivus , christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned : or , that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed , commonly ( but not properly ) called anabaptism , vindicated by that two-edged sword of the spirit ( the word of god ) from all kinde of calumnies that are cast upon it , and cavils that are made against it by the rantizers on the one hand , and the ranters on the other , and proved to be the onely true baptism , and way of christ . in five or six several systems containing a general answer , directed to no-body in particular . in which , not onely a publick disputation for infant-baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author , who was then respondent ( a false account ( extant under the name of a true account ) whereof , and their express challenge to him to answer , or give the cause , gave good cause to him to undertake this work ) is ( after a discovery of their true account to be a true counterfeit ) abundantly disproved , and their own review of their own arguments over again reviewed and refuted , and their talk about toleration of hereticks so talk't with , that toleration of them ( though not by ministers in true churches , yet ) by magistrates in civil states is manifested to be the minde of god ; but also mr. baxters scripture proofs are proved scriptureless , and the chief arguments of dr. holmes , dr. featley , mr. marshall , mr. blake , mr. cook , mr. cotton , and many more that plead it in print or private letters are enervated , and indeed scarce any-body that stands up for non-baptizing and non-churching , or for that parish-practice of sprinkling and in-churching infants is left unanswered . by samuel fisher m. a. and pastor ( once ) of the parish-church ( but since ) of the true-church of christ , which is at lydde in the county of kent . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . & . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . london , printed by henry hills , and are to be sold by francis smith at his shop in flying horse court in fleetstreet . . postscript . reader , since the first impression of this book , there is a butter-fly flown abroad , that makes a fearfull fluttering among its own favorites for infant-sprinkling from the hands of one mr. reading , with whom i once held a publick dispute against it at folston ( as is hinted to thee above in p. . & p. . ) in my reading of which work of mr. reading had i attained to satisfaction , that our present way of dipping believers is the error , and their way of infant-sprinkling the truth , thou shouldst have had my recantation ; or had i seen it sending in any new supply of evidence ( not availing to my conviction ) in proof of theirs , and disproof of ours , thou might'st likely have seen from me some new supply of relief , or new reply to such new repulses : but finding his to be but a new book , for the most part furtively collected out of many old ones already routed , and that both in the argumentative and responsive part thereof ( as well that which relates more immediately to my self , as that which relates to the cause i stand up in , as managed by others ) there is nil ferè dictum , quod non fuit tam contradictum , quàm dictum priùs ; wel nigh nothing spoken that was not both spoken , and spoken to before , by my self in this very volume , in so much that had he perused it ( as he had engagement and advantage enough to do , it being extant in those parts where he lives almost a year before his own ) he might have seen his book here answered before ere it appeared at the press , and have sav'd himself the charges of the impression , i resolved to supersede from any further medling with it , as judging it frivolous to fight afresh with every old argument and answer , that thrusts it self out onely in a new harness . howbeit among other of his misrepresentations of my arguments , few or none of which are by him rightly represented ▪ i cannot but advertise thee of this as most notorious , in that p. . of his book , ( whether in simplicity or subtilty i know not ) he suggests it unto thee for a truth that from this proposition ( viz. ) the parents to whom peter spake , acts . . were unbelievers then when he spake so to them , i inferred this conclusion , ( viz. ) that therefore the gospel promise is not to believers and their children , and so busies himself in beating the air , and making good what none opposeth , for our opinion is this , which then also was my conclusion , ( viz. ) that therefore the gospel promise is made not onely to believers and their children , but to unbelievers , and their children also , to whom it shall be made good too , as in time to come they shall believe , repent , and be baptized . ex pede herculem , by this little thou mayst see the whole lump , and how apt the man is to answer matters before he hath well heard them , which for any man to do ( saith solomon ) is follie and shame unto him . and now since some know not what the meaning is of those three capital letters , ( viz. ) ppp , ccc , sss , &c. with which the title● given to the clergy , whether true or surreptitious , are very often signed by me , but especially in this later part of the book above , when i speak of the three kindes of clergy-men altogether , ( viz. ) papal , prelatick and presbyterian ; i signifie that this is to intimate unto thee how these three are the three ppparts of that great citie bbbabylon , which reigneth over the kings and kingdoms of the earth , into which it stands divided before its fall , rev. . . & . . moreover i do thee to wit that what thou findest in the last part of this book distinguished by the old english character is word for word the last part of that paedobaptistical piece , which was put out about the ashford disputation , which reading abstract from the rest , thou readest all that to a tittle , on which this last part is but a paraphrase , to shew how the ministers own good matter ( unmaskt ) is but a glass , wherein ( if they be not blinde ) they may easily see their own ill manners , and themselves who talk so much against toleration of hereticks and schismaticks , to be more heretical and schismatical than those they call so . finally , desiring thee to help thy own understanding in the reading of this book , in such places wherein the sense is clouded , by reason of such defects as fell out in the printing , through male-correction of it at the press , by this ensuing rule of direction ; i commend thee to the lord and rest thine in him sam : fisher . errata . epistle to the reader p l r pugnandum . praescript p l r quid verbis . p l dele if not . p l dele as . p l r when . p l r possible they might ly . p l r when he had . p l after sprinkling r which it rather mai●s and suppress the true baptism which premi &c p l r the odd half . p l d and. p l r vzziah to meddle . p l r inane l r do no more . p l r more than . p l r ever . p l r babist . p l r baptist. p l for but it r that . p l r healing of bodily . p l d and. p l r more than of . p l r not at all . p l r requires . p l for which r when . p l r baptize . p l r as not . p l r deed . p l r and grandchildren . p l dele to . p l for be can discip●ed r can possibly know when such children are first discipled except it be in their first infancy , yet i tell him we know such children as well as others to be first discipled . p l r impossible . p l r judg of . p little r tittle . p l were r we . p l r at a venture . p l r whose seed he is . p l r object you , l r what through furniture your cause hath . p l is as r as is . p l seed r seal . p l , r who never yet actually displeased him , l r therefore , l r doing good to any . p l r with d for . p l r mar. . p l r opere operato● p l r scarce . p l might not excuse them . p l r not so plainly as you must . p l , r our worthy divines and especially m● . baxter . p l r dexterity . p l , r putting on no others . p l r bread for neither r not , l r chearing . p l r with such niggardly . p l r expe●●us p l for had r and. p l r much mistaken . p l for though r as . p l d that with freedom on both sides . p l for as or r or as , l r children were . p l r as to a l r as well as he . p l r onely in the seed . p l r acts . p r rom . acts p ● l r iohn . . l r prov. . . p l d which , l r my self to be . p l r iohn . . p for ( a ) r ( all ) p for viz. r were not . p l r should not have been . p l r examen . p l r then from thence , l r rite of baptism . p l r mouths . p l r any right . p mar r u●riusqu● ▪ p l r synagogues i. e. their own countreys ( or . p l for might r night . p l r whose remove would pluck . p l r came at all . p l r such onely are , l r if we ask . p l for yea r yet . p l r po●ui● . p l r you run . p l for by r but. p l r founded . p l r satan . p l r cosu . in the table p l for by r be . p l r is not to be obtained . to the honest hearted , unprejudiced reader of these ensuing systems , more especially to you my loving country men of the county of kent , greeting , beloved friends , and brethren you have been earnest , and are now wellnigh hopelesse , and therefore by this time may possibly be ( for ought i know ) half angry expectants of something or other from me in answer to that true counterfeit ( so i call it ) of the ashford disputation ; a pamphlet , so injurious ( not so much to me as the truth ) that t was provocation enough to the presse of itself , to one so clearly concerned in it as my self , but as if it were not , was a while after seconded by another : neverthelesse , what evill surmises soever you have of my so long silence , as i dare not say i am altogether blamelesse , * so i dare say i am not altogether excuselesse in the businesse , for verily as t was little lesse then half a year after the disputation before that hasty birth of theirs came to light , in which time it threatned the country to come out upon it , and at last came ( out upon 't ) indeed , so was it little lesse then a quarter after the nativity of that trifle before i received , from the publishers thereof , the copy of it , together with this ensuing summons to let somewhat be seen in my own right , in which since it s declared that they would needs interpret my total silence as a giving of the cause , i stood , as strictly engaged so from thenceforth irrevocably resolved ( being elsewise indifferent ) as the lord should lend me strength , life , and leasure ( not in my own , but the gospels right , which now i saw must suffer , if i were silent ) to set upon this wearisom work , notwithstanding which resolution of mine , what by partly my often avocations from home in way of service to the truth , there being ( if i may become a ●ool ●o far without offence , in satisfaction to such churches as compel me to it by their unjust offences at my just absence from them as here to utter it ) no lesse then ten publique ( not to speak of private ) disputations , in which i have been actually interessed since that of ashford , be sides publique preachings , other occasional meetings , and writings , church visitings , and visitations of sick members , to whom i have been moved several times to move many miles in such junctures , when ( saving the pressingnesse of that case ) no other should have importund me to have stired an inch out of my own dores . partly my own necessary occasions and outward affaires at home , which i am ( though but little ) yet to this day too much intangled in for a souldier of christ : partly one long and tedious sicknesse which my god was pleased to exercise me with toward the dead of one winter * for almost a quarter together , so that i was in all that time , and somewhat more , neither capable to stir much without dores , nor do much within . partly ( if not principally ) an earnest desire i had ( as deeming it not worth while to trouble the world , and travel throw the presse with no more profitable a birth , then a bare contradiction to that bawble of theirs , which doth more then sufficiently contradict it self , and a meer nugatory negation of a few false affirmatives , that are made in that account concerning my silly self and one poor particular disputation ) to stop more gaps with one bush , and to hand forth somthing more for publique use together with it , as i here have done , namely , not onely two entire treatises , viz. anti-rantism , and anti-ranterism , both which bear little or no particular reference to the ashford disputation , but also very many usefull animadversions of a number of lame arguments , empty answers , absolue absurdities , babish baflings , sophistical shuffles , and clear contradictions , sometimes to themselves . and often to each other in their carrying on of the same cause ( which are therefore the more remarkable ) that are in the books of their best champions , * all which as it askt me no small time to tumble ore , to summon together , and enter in a new treaty with , to see if i could yet possibly find cause to agree with , and fall back to them in the point of infant baptism , before i struck a stroke against them with my pen , so when i could come to no accomodation by that last parly , but saw them all at odds among themselves , and consequently saw more occasion then ever to fall out with them afresh , it took me up much more time to encounter with them all , for so i was fain to do more or lesse occasionally , as i found them in their several works falling in to the help of the ashford disputants by the way : finally partly the starting of fresh hares ( i had almost said foxes ) upon me whilest i was working to wearinesse in descrying the starting holes of the old ones , which occasioned , yea even necessitated me to take up and follow those new sents , unlesse i would rather suffer them to range up and down , and do mischief without putting on in the least measure to prevent them : more especially that hasty birth of mr. baxters , which as well for the sake of some friends , that commended it to my consideration , as for the sake of that deep delusion i saw the whole country to be under by doting on it , i was constrained to speak ( as i have done at the end of anti-rantism ) though succinctly , yet more distinctly to , then to any other . vvhat ( i say ) with these obstructions partly , and some other also of another nature , i have been forced inevitably to presse your patience ( dear friends ) almost to death : wherupon i challenge you notwithstanding to forbear murmurring and acting in such sullennesse , as , because the book came out no sooner , therupon to neglect it altogether : if my paines may not abate his displeasure , and ballance his patience , who is offended without a cause , for not hasting it out by the halves , as some ( for ought i see ) had rather i should have done , then tarried till i had done the tenth of what i intended . i desire that man , who ever he is , either to fry still in the fire of his own fretfull humour , or else to please himself , when he sees good , without amends from me , who having disposed of this , that 's out , to the publique service as soon as i could well do it acceptably to god , whose providence hath hitherto prevented me , dare not disparage his acceptance of me so much , as , in what i have it , to ask forgivenesse from men : its never long that comes at last , if withall it effect that in order to which it comes , and if you say , bis , qui cito , he does indeed , that dispatches , i say sat cito , si sat bene , soon enough , if well enough , or else too soon even yet : whether this present bulk doth performe its errand so well or no , as to be worth your waiting so long for it , it s not for me to determine ; i leave it to your strictest examination , regardlesse utterly of any censure , whether yours , or theirs , to whom it beares strictest relation , my business in it lying morewith god , then either them , or you ; wel knowing that he , who spends himself in thoughts of what others think of him & his , hath more pride then wit , and more time then grace and wisdome to improve it , let the work therefore stand or fall to its own master , i le neither beg any mans good word for it , nor put it under any patronage , but christs , from whom it came to me , and to whom together with all honour , thanks and praise for his assistance of me most unworthy creature in it i dedicate it back again . if any quarrel with the length of it now it is come , as some do in that it was so long ere it came , and ask why i have laid such a large and voluminous siege to so small and trivial a fort , such poor paper works , as might have been battered and taken in much lesse time , and with a far lesse train of artillary then is here brought against the ashford disputation ? i desire them to understand , that howbeit the daring defiance thereof engaged me to make my first on set upon that petty garrison , so that there is as it were a vein of dispute therewith continuing , and running ( for the most part ) throwout the whole volume ; yet the battle is also with the main body of their worthies ( as i said before ) according as ( inter p●ignandum ) they have occasionally bin cessary to their relief . secondly , possession is eleven points of the twelve , in which respect , they being but defendants , and we now indeed ( as they say page the ●irst ) invading , or rather re-invading ( for they at first by their own invention brought innovation , and invasion upon the truth ) both them and the practise of their church in the point of infant sprinkling , which are both praepossed already of all christendome , and have now of a long time planted , seated , and settled themselves so firmly in the dark cells of mens inmost consciences and affections , that it hath been and is not onely hatefull , but hazardous for any to storm them out , we go upon no small disadvantages , and so had need be more free of our shot then else we should be ; intus existens facile prohibet alienum , a few within the walls may be a match to many that are yet without , how much more when the stormed are many to one of those that storm them , even four hundred and fifty of the rest to few of the lords elijahs . thirdly , an ell too long is better than an inch too short : he that likes not the length hath enough of the same to make it shorter to himself when he pleases , and liberty from the authour to look into as little of it as he lists . fourthly if you find it not greater in quantity then in quality advantagious to the truth , it may welcome it self into reasonable mens affections , when such a short shuffle as that it relates to , may , without injury , be shut out of doors . if the title of it chance to trouble any body , that shall not at all trouble me : for though the ashford disputatation , which it mainly answers to , was assuredly penned by some body , yet no body is pleased to own it , and therefore to him , even to no body , it was most meet to superscribe the answer . in a word , and to conclude ( for it were an unreasonable thing , & no less then to set my self upon a new score by wiping out the old one , if while i am excusing my self for detaining the book so long from you , i should detain you long from the book it self , now it is out , by a long epistle ) what ere t is , heretis , if every body be free from the guilt of those errors and heresies , those fopperies , and falsities , those dissembling shifts , and contradictions , ignorances and other evils that are here condemned , then no body shall have need to complain of it , for then it complains of no body at all , but if any body suspects shrewdly that it speaks to him , it speaks to him indeed . yours , and the truths , samuel fisher . for mr. fisher. sir , these short collections of the ashford disputation had slept long enough , if your private letters had not awakned them by a too much slighting your opponents and their arguments . i know you have seen the thing long since , and heard the other day you intended a vindicatition . the last thursday there was a conference at wadhurst in sussex upon the like subject , where were more then one of your opponents at ashford . this relation was objected to them among other things , as a pamphlet injurious to your self , as neither setting down your answers truly , nor fully . this puts the publisher upon a further work . not an new thing upon the subject , but a desire of you ( if you give not the cause by your silence upon this provocation ) to let something be seen in your own right , by which he may take occasion to clear himself about the publishing of this . to that purpose i was intreated to send you this copy ; that you may not take advantage of those many faults , which through the negligence of the printer are found in your former . sir , i pray deal clearly and ingenuously , for you deal with such as your self in this , that their aim is onely gods glory , and the discharge of their own consciences in vindication of the truth , suppressing heresie , reducing those who are gone , confirming those who are doubtful , and praying that god would give the assistance of his spirit to these ends . so resteth march . . your friend r. m. an epistolary praescript to mr. r. m. and the rest of the clergy that were present , and ( at their own choice ) president at the disputation , whether accountants , or associates in answer to their expostulatory provocation worthy sirs , had your sleeping disputation been some lion , it had been better for me to have been asleep then to have awakned it ( as it seemes i did ) by but two or three touches with my pen , but sith it is but a fox spoiling ( as far as they are within its reach ) the vine and her tender grapes , i am ( notwithstanding its majestical craft ) neither sorry , nor ashamed , nor afraid that i reacht it a rap , and rouz'd it into such a resolution towards the vindication of it self ; for i doubt not but hee , with whom it falls out afresh , even truths champion christ iesus , that true david , who wearied it once before , may possibly master it again ( though by the same silly instrument , that he used then ( even a stone and sling in his hand ) so as thereby to awaken , if none of your selves ( as o si , o si ) yet many others ( as the first encounter did ) to come into the vineyard , and cluster together with the saints , who else happily would sleep still , so as to remain in that wast forrest of parish posture , wherein you gentiles dwell : specially when they shall find that though we are a people small and despised , yet we keep christs statutes , and cleave close to that primitive simplicity of the gospel , from which all the ccclergy in the world , and their co-acted more then either truly collected , or ( for ought yet appears ) elected people , are most miserably stragled , and the best reformed nations in all christ'ndome , which yet passe with you ( qua tales ) for curant churches , are to this very day estranged . now sirs , as to your book , of which together with your provocation to answer or yield you sent me a perfect copy , whether i had seen it before or no , i kindly thank you for it however , and have accordingly put forth this following answer , in vindication not of my right ( for t were better for me to die , then not be under injury in the midst of innocency for the truth ; yea your book hath righted me more by wronging me in such wise as was obejected to you at wadhurst , then if it had righted me indeed ) but of that truth from which by heresie both you and the whole world , save a few that return , are departed , which let it live , as it must now , maugre malice it self , and then though i die for it , as i am unworthy to do , yet i trust to be no loser by the bargain , . as to those letters you speak of , which awakened your disputation into this thing called the account . . i must tell you that i know but one ( that is my self ) who did , and but one letter wherein i did at all make mention of your doings : if that be it ( as no doubt it is ) you were so exceptious at , as thereupon to betake your selves to vindication in so publike a way as the press , one would think you should have excepted , and acted principally in print against such matters in that my letter , as are of more generall and publique concernment , as lay the ax to the root of your tree , as strike at the very standing of your kingdome , and fight at the ministerial function of the whole fraternity of you as false and fained , and not against such onely , as onely seem to savour of some sleightings of your single persons , and some ( not undue ) disrespects toward your disputings : but though there is so much in that letter of mine , as clears the whole ccclergy to be corrupt in the constitution of their ministry , and congregations , and even so much truth , as you l never understand , whilst you go on to bark against the moon , as you do , nor stand under the trial of within a while before either god or man ; yea though the gentleman also , to whom i wrote , being one of quality then partizing and patronizing in your cause , did turn me over to your selves for satisfaction to the contrary * , whence it might very well be expected , when it was rumbled about that you were at the press , that you would have returned ●omething to that , rather then turn me off with no more then a few fragments of your old disputation , yet , all this notwithstanding , you touch not the main tenor of that my letter with the least of your fingers , save that you say in the preface of your book , you are disgraced by it , but shew it not . . whereas you judge that you my opponents , and your arguments were too much sleighted in that my letter , i judge to this hour , that neither the one nor the other are sleighted below that weakness which was then , and is now much more discovered in your account it self , insomuch that a man may well save himself the labour of making good what ere he saies in disparagement of your disputation , any otherwise then by sending him thither , where they may see by your own testimony of it , how meanly it was managed , though you have made the best side of your arguments to stand outward , and the worst of your antagonists answers , yea qui verbis opus est quum facta loquuntur ? if any believe not me affirming how poorly infant baptism was proved at ashford , let him believe the work it self now extant , proclaiming it self weak , its argument's weak , for so the thing called the true account thereof doth , in word in its preface , and indeed in the residue , litera scripta manet non ita verba diu . litera sculpta manet not ita scripta diu . . as to the privacy of that my rescription and recrimination to the gentleman you wot of , which you complain of , not onely in this your monitory missive to my self , but in your preface also to the reader , where you say your aversaries in private loaded your disputation with disgraces , as if you had been bob'd behind in some base way , and so secretly supplanted , that he who spake so diminutively of you and yours , must needs be ashamed that his words should ever see the light ; you know sirs that my letter was not so private , but that it might have been made publique ( if you had pleased ) by your selves , who as you had a quarrel against it , so both had it amongst you , and free leave also from me ( of whom if you had had a mind to it , or any advantage by it . i am sure you would not have askt it ) to have prest it out in your service , with your own defence against it , the presse being also as open to your excusation , as my accusation . . if you ask me why , i reply not to the sole publisher of the account , but addresse my self in way of blame to you all , even such as were no more then present at the disputation . i answer , . how to personate the chief publisher of your collections i kn●w not , for i know him not : or if i know him well enough for my self , yet i know not how to know him so well , as on my knowledge to notifie him to others : he hath chosen to be namelesse , whether to this end that he might be the more securely shameless in setting down or no , i will not say at any hand , but many a one will think so for all that : for my part since i saw it pleased him to hide himself , i was not disposed much to enquire after him , much lesse shall he be discovered for me , who can tell , from the time i first saw his work , whose finger it is not , more safely then i can yet , whose it is : for in such sense as some scripture is , it s doubtlesse no finger of god , and though i am sure t is the finger of meer man , assisted by satan , yet of what man in special , ( i confesse i have good ground to pay it with thinking ) i may not speak positively in print , unlesse i le speak upon bare hearsay , which i heed not . secondly , if it were mainly the employment of one to gather things together , & compose them into one bulk , yet it seems plainly to be the joint issue of several mens brains , and to have been rak't out of more memories then one , and therefore well may you call them collections , yea that not meerly one , but more then one had a hand in it , i am informed sufficiently to belief by the voice of the baby-book it self , which speaking in some places plurally , but not any where singularly of its parentage , little lesse then assures me of this , that howbeit there might be one prime penman of the pamphlet , or whoere it was that thrust it through the presse , yet the minds of more men , yea more ministers then one is sounded forth in it , yea of such as were but auditors at the disputation , whose sense both of it , and of its efficacy upon the people is said in your account to be so unanimous , that they resolved together with the rest to declare their sense of it in their several congregations , and oppose the growth of anabaptism , as t is cal'd , in their respective flocks , which since it hath been done by them too , accordingly as was then agreed , and whether if not all , or at lest a pluralty of those priests , who before laid their heads together to betray the truth of god , did not since compare their notes together to bely it , whether birds of a feather did not flock together to give their several influences toward this hotch-potch relation , t is more 〈◊〉 ( if any of you can clear your selves of it do ) then i can clear any of you of at all , save the scotchman of kenington● who at folston disclaimed his having any hand in it : but should that be more then i have warrand to be sure of , yet however i am certain of this , that either it is the sense of you all , or else some of you have the more wrong , whilst the book is so curiously composed , that it may seem to be the ministers book , and the arguments that are set down in it , be they never so silly and inconsequent , are fathered upon you all in grosse , recorded as the ministers arguments , though proceeding but from one ministers mouth , and not few follies and absurd things , whilst the penman dances in the clouds himself , are related as spoken , and done by the ministers , which the ministers may very well , and will once find time to be ashamed of : yet you seem to take all that 's put upon you to your selves , not any of you entring your dissent : whilst therefore you seem so jointly to justifie him , that puts you all upon the score in the report , you cannot justly condemn him , who arrests you all for it , in the reply . . as to these present returnes of mine to that threefold thing you have thrust forth , i am experienced by your wonted demeanor toward such as trouble you too much with truth , how much more odium then ever i must come under thereby among both your selves and your admirers ; but hic murus ahaeneus esto nil conscire sibi , nulla pallescere culpa . this verily is no lesse then a brazen fence to me against all your censures and exceptions , that even herein , as well as in in other things for which you condemn me , i have exercised my self so , as to keep a conscience void of offence , and that toward both god and man. yea if i have not dealt clearly , as you wish me to do , i. e. according as the truth is indeed , then in the very way of waiting upon god onely , singly , seriously , and with many tears for the understanding of it , in which way he , that cannot lie , hath assured me he will be found , my conscience is most wonderfully clouded ; therefore see that you see , if you see . but if i have not dealt ingenuously i. e. as candidly as so crooked a generation as the ccclergy is , that do alwayes erre in their hearts , and have not known christs wayes , can justly claim from any , but some cowardly clawback , that cares not to be unfaithful in his carriage both toward god and them , then the lord deal so graciously with us all , as to humble both you under a sanctified sight of such sins as you are as truly guilty of , as here reproved for , and me under my miscarriage in reproving . . finally sirs , having briefly premised these things , and praying earnestly that our lord iesus christ would vouchsafe you all that holy spirit of his , even the spirit of promise , which ( i fear ) you are more strangers to then you are aware of , and , in order thereunto , adjuring you to repent from your dead works , to arise and be baptized and wash away your sins , calling on the name of the lord , so resteth , as to this epistle , your truly loving , though as little beloved , as believed friend samuel fisher . some few generall hints given out ( as time would give leave ) where to hit upon some few of those particulars , that are handled in the book above . a believing abrahams own children , born of his body , not his own in gospel account , nor in right to stand in his family , the visible church now under the gospell , nor heires with him of gospel promises , much l●sse the meer fleshly seed of any believing gentiles without faith , and doing the workes of abraham , proved at large p. . to . the ashford disputers prov'd throwout their whole disputation to have brought not one inch of argument , or dram of reason to evince the right of believers infants to baptism , more then what , were it of any force that way , would as fully evince the right of unbelievers infants to it also , to whom themselves deny it . p. . . . . . b the triple tower of bbbabell , i. e. the threefold kingdome of priests , or great city bbbabylon , standing now divided in three parts , viz. papall , prelatical and presbyteriall , now comming down to ruine by the division of languages p. . . . two parts of the great city bbbabylon , that 's to fall first here in england before it falls in other nations , viz. papacy , prelacy , fully fallen here already , the third , viz. presbytery now falling dayly , together with all its accountrements , as the other did before it p. . . baptism gods sign , not gods seal , but the spirit onely his seal of the gosspel-covenant , and though a sign , and resemblance of the death , burial , and resurrection of christ to persons at years , yet not so much as a sign to infants , but destroyed utterly in its nature , use and office as a sign , and outward representation , if dispensed in infancy p. . to . mr. baxters baby-book as occasionally toucht upon throwout this whole volume , so , so far as it pleads infant baptism from its three mediums , infant discipleship , church membership , and right to be dedicated to god , summarily , plainly , and entirely by it self answered p. . to . c the babish disputing of the ashford disputers for believers infants baptism above other infants from the rule of christian charity , which , say they , is to presume every person to be good , till he appear to be evil , discovered and disproved p. . to . circumcision set as a seal to abrahams person onely , but as a sign only and no seal to his posterity , in what sense t is said to be a seal to him ro. . . the sense of that script ▪ which is perverted by the priesthood , is plainly discovered p. . . also p. . also . the argument from the analogy , that the priests say is between circumcision and baptism , called by dr featly , pons asinorum , a bridge which the asses , i. e. the anabaptists could never passe over , examined , and such dialogy and discrepation discovered to be between those two services , not onely as we use , but as themselves abuse baptism , that two administrations cannot be said , nor shew'd to differ more then they do p. . to . no command for infant-baptism ( as there was for infant-circumcision ) neither syllabical nor consequential . mat. . . where dr. featley , mr. marshal , mr. blake , positively say its commanded in the word [ all nations ] they being a part thereof , and where , not these three onely , but mr. bayly , mr. baxter , mr. cook , mr. cotton , and even all , intimate it to us as commanded in the clause [ make disciples ] cleared to be no command , but a plain prohibition of infant baptism , p. . to . the command for circumcision of infants gen. . not so much as a consequential or vertual command to baptize them , as mr. marshal would prove it to be , unlesse the priesthood will yield themselvs to be transgressors of that command , who baptize females on any day , when only males were bid to be circumcisied on the eight : or if the command for circumcising children gen. . were a consequential command to baptize them , then the contramand to circumcise children act. . . must be a contramand to baptize them p. . to mr. cotton confesses that the infants that were brought to christ mark . . were not baptized , and that no infants were baptized with the rest in that place , where it s recorded that were baptized act , . , , . p. . the babish disputings of the ashford disputers for infant baptism from a necessity of making the gospel covenant worse then that under the law , contrary to heb. , . if believers infants may not now be baptized as well as the iews infants were then circumcised , discovered and disproved at large p. . to . the law and gospel , though one a type of the other , yet are two really , specifically distinct covenants , and not two different administrations only ( though so also ) of that one covenant of grace ; nor one covenant only for substance , as the priests make it : a diversity in them discovered contray to that identity they plead , p. . to . the great and mighty argument for infant-baptism from the practise of the universal church , which the ashford disputers complain much that we would not hear of , ventilated , and the little verity , great vanity , and utter invalidity therof discovered p. . to . clergy no proper name to the national ministry , but to christs people . p. d no damnation to any dying infants p. . . to . infants not possibly capable to be disciples of christ , and the dribling disputings which the priests make for infant discipleship from act , . . and from infant discipleship in proof of their right to baptism discovered p. . to . also . . p. . to . total dipping proved at large to be the onely true way and form of baptizing , from the prime signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the example and practise of the primitive times , from the proper end and use of baptism , which is to be not only a sign , but resemblance of the thing signifyed , and from divers other considerations , and the frivolous fendings and provings of the priests against dipping , and for sprinkling discovered , and their obulary objections answered p. . to . mr. cook , and mr. baxters bawbling , false and refusely charges of the totall dippers , as dipping naked , as no lesse then murderers and adulterers , refelled and refuted p. . to . e no example of infant baptism in all the scripture , the pedling proof of the priesthood for infant baptism from the several housholds that are said to be baptized , discovered and disproved p. . to . old england , scotland , new england concurring together by the ears about their infant-rantism . to . all those eulogies or high commendations that are given to little infants in those scriptures , mark. . . mat. . . luke . . cannot possibly prove them to have any right to baptism , and the childish disputings of the ashford disputers therefrom disproved , also dr. holms's weak arguings from mark . for infant baptism ; and that scripture opened , and urg'd as a strong argument against the priests in that point p. . to . f faith , their apparent having of which is the first way , whereby the ashford disputants would prove believers infants to have the spirit , not possible to be in any infants , much lesse to be manifested to be in believers infants , more then in those of unbelievers : the childish disputings of the ashford disputers in proof of infants believing from matth. . . from faiths being , and witnessed by their circumcision to be in the jewes infants , from their uncapablenesse to be justifyed and saved without it , and from all other considerations whatsoever , abundantly disproved p. . to . . to . to . and their unreasonable repulses to such objections , as themselves confesse , reason makes against infants faith , on reasons behalf replyed to , p. . to . not onely the primitive fathers , viz. f. peter , f. paul , f. jude , f. james , f. john , are all for us ; but the sub-primitive fathers , which the ashford disputers pretend they would fain have pleaded it from , & perhaps are more versed in , then in the other , discovered to be more against , then for infant baptism p. . to . h imposition of hands asserted unanimously by paraeus , calvin , hophman , marlorat , bullinger , cotton , and dr. holmes , who cites these , to be dispensed in antient time to baptized persons , when at yeares , in order to their admittance into church-fellowship p. . one undeniable argument for the present use and practise of that doctrine of laying on of hands on baptized believers before their admission into fellowship in the church , p. . in prosecution of which , a paper newly extant , stiled questions about laying on of hands , with the grounds thereof , is answered p. . to . what heresie and schism is ; who is a schismatical here●ick p. . . the pppriests proved to be the chief hereticks and schismaticks p. . to . the churches of the baptists clearing themselves from the crime of heresie and schism out of calvins own mouth p. . . . heresies , idolatry , false worship 〈◊〉 to be tolerated in civil states : the parable of the tares and wheat mat. . opened , liberty of conscience in matters meerly of religion , proved and pleaded therefrom , and by many other arguments , as the mind of christ , and the higher powers of the earth strictly summoned in the name of christ , as they will answer the contrary at their peril , to cease acting according to the pppriesthoods bloody tenet of persecution for cause of conscience p. . sundry causes why god suffers hereticks to be ; four great causes of the ccclergyes so great heresie , and erring from the truth , viz. amor sui , self conceit , dislike of their own places , gloriae secularis aucupium , a desire to be some body , covetousnesse p. . to . holinesse threefold , morall , none of this in infants p. . to . matrimoniall , this in all infants as well as some ( save onely bastards ) but proves not the holy spirit to be in its subject , nor gives any right to baptism , yet this proved to by the holiness onely meant in cor. . . p. . to ▪ . ceremoniall , viz. that of the jewes by nature that entitled them to circumcision , commonly called faederall by the priests , the common topick , whence they analogically plead a birth - holines in believers infants , & consequently their right to baptism , proved abundantly to be abolished , and the extream contradiction , follies , absurdities of mr. blakes baby book ▪ stiled the birth-privi●edge discovered , p. ▪ to . the holinesse of the iews seed confest by both mr. blake , and mr. baxter to be the same , whereby the land , city , temple were holy , which being ceremonial and abolished , the other must needs be so also ▪ p . . the babish disputings of the ash●ord disputers , and of mr. baxter for infant baptism from the hope or hopelessnesse of their salvation according as we dispense or deny baptism to them , discovered and disproved , and grounds to hope the salvation , of all dying infants , whether baptized or no , exhibited : p. . to . also . to . i innocency of infants no argument for their baptism , but much rather for the contrary p. . . as ishmael and his seed was cast out of abrahams house before isaac , so isaac and his seed before christ. gal. . . to the end , and many other scriptures illustrating that truth , opened . johns baptism , why called johns , how differing from christs , and how it was christs p. . . . . m the national ministry , whether we consider their ordination or manners , and many more matters , no ministry of christs making but of the popes , p. . to . o the reasons ordinarily rendred against the use of baptism , or any ordinances at all refelled . p. . to . to . p the gospel promise not made to believers seed , as such , nor to the meer fleshly seed of any man in the world . act. . ▪ which is made so much of by the priests , as of force to prove infant baptism , opened , and cleared to make against them , p. . to . . to . s scripture up in armes against infant baptism , as coted in proof of it out of mr. baxters own mouth . . . . . of sprinkling , when and how it came instead of baptism , p. . p. . line . for fidus read magnus . caetera tam nil sunt , ut vix funt digna notatu , crimina typographi parva remitte precor . anti-diabolism . or the true account a true counterfit . and now sirs ( to say nothing of your pretty preface till anon , for even that also must then be forth coming to give account of its dawbery , and incongruity , as well as your account it self ) i will begin with your book , which ( as diminutive as it is ) you have for all that stitcht up in no less than three treatises . first , a report of your disputation . secondly , a review of your arguments . thirdly , a ratiocination about hereticks . in all which , how far forth you quit your selves like men of truth , and reason , comes now before the world to be examined . the first i say , is a story of the long disputation that was held at ashford , iuly ▪ . from noon , till neer seven at night , and it 's contained in the five first leaves , whereof two whole ones at least ( but say so they had need ) are spent in your exact setting down of the arguments and answers , and the rest in praevious and posteriour passages . so that in this first part of your pamphlet , there are two things in generall which you profess to give a true account of . first , the propositions agreed on between your selves , and your respondent , his position , and what else was precedent , and preparative to the disputation . secondly , the disputation it self , and such things as were subsequent to it , in each of which , if i shew not that you have recorded more flat falsities , and down-right untruths than one ( and that were too much to fall from your pens , were you ministers of christ indeed ) then let my own pen record me for a lyar , and my own self bear the blame of over-charging you , and that for ever . in order to a trial of the truth in this case between you and me , though i suppose i shall not be more critical in considering , nor volumnous in dilating on them , than your selves are numerous in bewraying of your own negligences , ignorances , contradictions , fictions , nakednesses , and abusive shifts , throughout this your three-fold thing , yet i shall make little less than a totall transcription of your papers , before i have done , and therin take notice of such absurdities at least whereby you most notoriously delude the world , most grosly oppose the truth ; most unworthily wrong your respondent , and most palpably proclaim your selves to be rather true dissemblers , than true discoverers of the ashford disputation , and smotherers , rather than publishers of that gospel-truth in the point of baptism , which you pretend also to give as true an account of to the world , as of the other . report . you talk first of propositions agreed upon between your respondent , and your selves , the ministers at the communion-table , in the church of ashford in kent , before the disputation began . reply . give me leave ( sirs , sith silence with you may be taken else for assent ) to say a word or two to this ; you stile your selves the ministers both here , and else-where , throughout your book ; but if you mean ministers of christ , and the gospel , i am yet to learn that from you ( which i never found you very forward to teach me ) viz. that you came truly , and honestly by that title ; you have hitherto wanted no provocation from me to prove the lawfulness of your calling : i made bold to denominate you antichristian ministers , in my position , upon the very day of the disputation , before those thousands , which ( you say ) were auditors thereof ; and i have asserted the same more abundantly since in that letter to mr. g. c. which it seems you know so well , as even thence to take occasion in a pet , to publish so much as you have done of your disputation , all which is enough to give you to understand that i own you not at all in that capacity , yet did you never , no neither then at the disputation , nor since in your so true a relation of it , so much as once open your mouth , or strike one stroke with your pen , whereby to evince it , that you are christs ministers , which gives me to believe , that howbeit you have a habit of calling your selves so , yet you had rather men believed you , on your bare words , than put you to prove your selves to be so , and that you are as utterly uncapable to clear it , as 't is clear you are unwilling to be urged to it . you speak of the church of ashford , and a communion-table in it : 't were strange if i should not know what you mean thereby , yet had you told this peece of your tale in other terms , it had been so much the less lyable to correction : i know but one church of ashford , that hath a communion-table in 't , and that is those few persons , who since they have gladly received the word of truth , have been according to christs will in that kind , baptized in his name for remission of sinnes , and do now continue in the apostles doctrine , and fellowship , and in breaking o● bread , and prayers , to which the lord i hope will add dayly such in those parts as shall be saved : in this church there is a communion-table indeed , even the table of the lord , at which they meet , blessing , and drinking that cup of blessing , which is the commemoration , and communion also of the blood of christ , breaking , and eating that bread , which is the commemoration , and communion of the body of christ , at which you , and your respondent never yet met , but may do yet in due time , if the lord please to grant you , ( for till then surely it never will be ) repentance to the acknowledgement of his truth : but for other communion-table , i wot not sirs that there is any at all at ashford . as for that common table , which stands in the great stone house , where the bells hang , where the people meet once a week , but never do that they should do , if they were disciples of christ indeed , which house you call the church of ashford , ( and i cannot but allow you so to do ( sith you disclaim the true one ) the very steeple being well nigh as much a truly constituted church of christ , as a parish people , the one whereof is but a compacted number of dead stones in a literal sense , and ( for the most part ) no less in a spiritual sense is the other , besides stone churches , and wooden priests ( such as if you are not , yet most of the popes children are ) suit well enough each with other ) as for that table ( i say ) where you , and your respondent agreed better about the articles of the disputation , then they do ( for ought i see ) to this day about that article of faith they disputed on , you had need to find some fitter phrase for it , than communion-table , for it hath long since ceased to be of any such use as for people to communicate at it ; the gentleman , my beloved friend that is now resident there , and president too ( in pretence at least ) as a pastor over that flock , having never administred it at all since his abode among them , nor since the classis possest him of that relation , and gave him orders to feed them with that ordinance : why he doth not meddle with that service in his parish , would be farre more wonderful to me then 't is had not mine own conscience been of the same constitution with his when i was with him in the same condition , for as my own feet stuck once in the , same stocks when i stood in pastorall relation to parochiall people , so i believe him to be further inlightned , then to be free for a promiscuous admittance to the supper of such societies , among whom he discerns ( not a few ) more goats than sheep , or to hold communion there , with them whom in the pulpit he cries out on as unbelievers , as knowing well enough , there 's no fellowship to be held between light , and darkness , believers and unbelievers in that holy ordinance : yet he sprinkles the infants of all ( as you also do , and my self blindly did ) or else that parish will prove happily to hot to hold him : upon what account he doth so i know not , for sure it cannot be upon this , because onely believers infants are to be sprinkled . the lord open all your eyes to see those sorry shifts wherein you shroud your selves for a time from your own sight , so that ye see not when ye interfeer , nor feel when you hack your own shins , for who so blind as those that cannot see how you act quite contrary to that you argue for , and overthrow your own principles by your practise ? report . these propositions say you were as followeth . first , that both parties should publiquely protest that they sought for verity , not victory . reply . i acknowledge this is very true , and it was protested on both sides , accordingly as was agreed , nevertheless whether it be the proud priest-hood , that seeks to tuck all men under their girdles , and by force to tye high , and low , rich , and poor , prince , and people , male , and female , bond , and free , to serve god in no other way than the pope , or their arch-bishops or arch-presbyteries appoint , and to tread all under them , that with never such evidence of scripture , and demonstration of the spirit , and power do gainsay them , or that poor party of people , who meerly in order to the promotion of truth rejoicingly subject themselves to scorn , shame , hatred of all , revilings from friends , foes , neighbors , old acquaintance , &c. whether ( i say ) it be those , or these , aliàs you or we that pretend verity , and intend onely victory will appear more at large in the examination of the . page of your book , in the first line whereof you charge us therewith , as an evil most specially incident unto us , mean while i let it pass , and go on . report . secondly , that the question to be disputed was paedo-baptism , namely , whether the baptizing of little children , born of believing parents , practised by the church of god , were lawfull ? reply ▪ i remember indeed that when 't was questioned what the question should be , paedo-baptism was agreed upon to be it , i. e. whether children ought to be baptized ? but had i been as wise as a wood-cock , or minded the matter so well as i should have done , i had spoken in a language more consonant to your practice , for paedo-rantism was the question i intended i. e. whether children ought to be sprinkled ? for though baptism , or dipping of infants is that the lawfullness of which you will never be able to demonstrate , an error lying still in the subject , in case you did ( as ●n truth you do not ) dispense it , yet you are gone further from the truth then so , no more ( at best ) than rantizing that false subject , which to do is indeed no baptism at all : i excep●ed against this in my position as well as the ●ther , but your prudence was pleased to leave it out in your accurate account thereof , least it should do you more harm than good , and asserted your errour to be double , in your dispensation of that you call baptism viz. first in that you plead to have infants be baptized when they ought not , secondly , in that you pretend to bap●ize them , and yet do not ; of both which i demanded an account at that time , and in all reason you should have given it , but not caring how little your sprinkling is spoken of , because you have little , or nothing to speak for it , you so took me at my word at the table when i yielded to dispute paedo-baptism , that paedo-ran●ism ( your only practise ) might not be medled with in discourse at all . secondly , i observe when ever you come to dispute for your childish-christenings you plead only for the infants of believers : but is not your plea by far too narrow for your practise , whilest you commonly christen the infants of all ? you know your people are not all in the faith , why else do you preach to them as prophane to the end you may convert them thereunto ? yet the wickedest wretches you so keep from the supper , that you often keep all from it for their sakes ; have access with their seed to be christened , as freely for the most part as the other : doth not that same faith that denominates men believers , saints , godly , and gives them , and ( as you say ) theirs too a true title to baptism , intitle their persons to the supper ? or must a man bring you another , and that a better kind of faith to the one , than he had need care for toward the other ? this some of your tribe do not blush to say , because ( as the case is ) there is nought else to be said : but know ye sirs and they too , that though you have your several sorts of saints for your severall services viz. your grosser sort of believers to admit ( not in their own persons neither when at years , but ) in their posterity only to your rantism , and a finer sort for the supper , yet christ requires but one sort of faith and saintship to both these ordinances , viz. no more than a true one to the one , and no less than a true one to the other . again you had much need ( had you not think you ? ) to set children of believing parents as the only subjects of baptism in the sta●e of the question between us , when throughout your whole dispute ( as i shall shew when i come to consider it ) there is not a tittle , nor grain of argument brought by you to prove the right of believers infants to baptism , but it serves as much every whit to prove the like for the infants of vnbelievers also : yea sirs take this from me , you do your cause a world of wrong in stating your question so streightly , for besides that you give the ly therein to your own action , which is the admission of all that are brought to you , and are born within the precincts of your parishes , you drive your selves to such a dilemma by your own disputes , that you will not know how to open your church-doors for believers infants to come in thereat , but vnbelievers infants will with ease creep in at them too . thirdly , one word more to this yet : did your respondent assent to you in it ( as you seem to say ) that the baptism of children is practised by the church of god ? how pretily have you put these terms [ practised by the church of god ] into the very question , and that too as it stands stated beeween us ? did i give , and grant so much ? or have you not rather taken it for granted from me whether i will , or no ? sirs i had thought i had given you sufficient evidence of my denial that the baptism of infants is practised by the church of god ; yea though the church of the pope , and such as you call the church of god , as the church of the prelate , the church of the presbyter , and some others too , do dispense rantism to infants under the name of baptism , yet i did then , as also i do still , deny it to be , or have been practised by any true church of god primitive , or modern , that then was , or now is visibly constituted according to his will in the word : as for what you call the church of god whether you mean all christendome , or the protestant part of it only , it is even therefore no true visible church of god because it rantizes infants : for that being undoubtedly a stragling from the truth , and an undue administration of that ordinance , not only as to the form of it , but the subject also , the name of the true visible church of god is ( ipso facto ) destroyed from it , were there no more error in it but barely that , if doctor featly ( to whom you send us in your review ) define the true church of god aright ; for while he saies that ( meaning that only ) is a true church where the word is truly taught , and the sacraments duly administred , consequently that is no true church where baptism is unduely administ●ed ; and so it is , ( or rather rantism instead of it ] not only at rome , but in england also , whilst to infants ; therefore as the church of rome is but a false church , so the church of england is no true one . i utterly do therefore , yea and did then , deny that infant-baptism is at all practised by the church of god : and yet ( o full of all fallacy ) as if your respondent were agreed with you in 't that the true church of god did baptize infants , how finely have you foisted in this epithite to the baptism of little children viz. [ practised by the church of god ] and that in this very account you give of our agreement about the very form , and terms of the question , that was yet to be disputed between us ? report . thirdly , that the arguments used in the disputation should be only express scriptures , or arguments of necessary consequence from them , all authorities of fathers and churches laid aside ; though the practise of the church was pleaded for , yet would not be yielded to . reply . . i agree with you that the arguments should indeed have been such only by agreement , but that one of those you then used , or any of these few material ones ( for the immateriall being of no account with your selves you account not for ) which you here expose to be perused is grounded upon express scripture , or any good consequence therefrom i deny , as will i hope be manifested in my ensuing re-review of them , and review of your review it self . secondly , if by fathers , whose authority you hang so much on , you mean those that were some hundreds of years after christ , and were canonized more lately for such , as father origen , father chrysostome , father ierom , father cyprian , father austin , and the other objects of the clergies dotage ; and if by churches you mean those that were in the ages when , and places where these fathers lived , or any other since the primitive times , which were the purest , it is but a follie to stand arguing from them , whose words and waies are no more the rule of truth to us then ours are to be to them that succeed us : for verily they might and did speak sometimes not according to the word , and then they were as heterodox as others , and our selves are in as good possibilities as they to speak according to the word , and then we are as orthodox , and authentick to the full as themselves . i did therefore utterly disown all authority of these fathers , and churches , for i knew none they had to be a standard to after ages : yet though i counterpleaded your plea from their practise , it was not least your cause should be advantaged thereby , for even the testimonie of those fathers is against you ; but because as they were subjected to the word , so were they as subject to error as our selves : but if by fathers you mean the primitive prophets , and apostles to whom all your fore-fathers are but children , viz. father peter , father paul , father iames , father iude , father iohn , whose doctrine was the foundation to the churches , and by churches those that were then built upon their doctrine , as that of ephesus , corinth , philippi , rome , &c. before the falling off from the truth , the authority of these fathers , and practise of these churches is pleaded for as seriously by us , as the other superstitiously by your selves . report . fourthly , here you tell us t was propounded , that the form of the disputation should be syllogisticall , which i , after many reasons alledged by you the ministers to inforce the same , at last yielded to . reply . a very fit phrase for it : for 't was inforced by you indeed , yet more by strength of resolution than reason , that 't was yielded to by my self is as true ; yet i must profess it was because the disposition of your wills did put me 〈◊〉 ( as we say ) to hobsons choise , for i saw you so desirous to draw your necks out of the coller , and to make any thing an excuse to break off the discourse , that i must choose either that way , or none , and therefore rather than the work of that day should ●all ( as it must have done altogether else for you ) to the total failing of the expectation , and hindering the edification of the people , i could not but give way to your desires : nevertheless your many reasons ( which were but two , and those as reasonless too as if you had said nothing ) were counter-mand with as many more , and those also of so much weight , that because you began to feel them sit heavy upon your scholastick skirts , you would have obstructed my delivery of them to the people : for what great matters did you alledge whereby at that time and place to prove the expediency of such a form ? first , that 't was given out ( as my desire to them is it never may be again ) by them of our party , that i was a scholar , and durst meet with scholars in discourse , and therefore seeing i now was before scholars , it was expected that i should dispute in the way that 's most usual among them . secondly , that the way of dispute by syllogisms ( for which some of you had little need to dispute , considering their illogicall , and un-syllogisticall doings that day , wherein they were all-to-be-puzzled in their matter by fumbling so much about that form ) was the clearest , and most compendious to the proving of things , and the preventing of extrravagancies , and disorder ; much what in such a manner did you utter your selves , in order to inforcing your proposition , to which the reply was to this purpose , namely , first , that though i had been in the vniversity , and a graduate there , yet i pretended to no great scholarship , yea , that i was a dunce , and a fool , which very terms , and no other , i repeated again in my position , and was contented to be counted for no other , as to that kind of learning of much of which i was willingly forgetful , that i might know more of christ , and the plainness of his gospel . secondly , that i came not thither to dispute , ( nor did i ( the lord is my witness ) in that formal way you stood upon ) but in plainness to give an account before all , to as many as should ask it , according to my ability , and what liberty you should allot me thereunto , ( which yet was well nigh none at all ) of the way you call heresie , after which i , and many others did worship . thirdly , that these syllogisticall wayes of arguing , and the foolish feigned forms of the scribes and disputers of this world , which men might dispute in about the things of nature , and the world , were utterly unsuitable to the seriousness of the things of christ , and the gospel , which were most effectually delievered , for so paul chose to hold them out , in all plainness of speech , and most commonly hid from people by the logicall terms , and methods of mans invention ; and that the wise and prudent men after the flesh , doctors , schoolmen and casuists had clouded the truth from the world , for ages and generations toge●her , by these their artificiall composures , fourthly , that christ and his apostles , the most of which were unlearned , and ignorant men , though they were scarce ever out of disputes about the gospell , did yet never dispute by the way of syllogisms . fifthly , that this way was fitter for the schooles , and very unfit for that auditory , where the people , for whose sake we were chiefly come together to discourse , knew not what belonged to mood and figure . sixthly , that we our selves were now countrified by our long non-residence in the vniversity , and so might very well be to seek on a sudden , and so i found some of you were , to syllogize so handsomely as we should do : these were the heads , though 't is like not the very words and order of that , which with mighty much a do , i had leave to return to your proposall : notwithstanding , all which you standing still so stifly , to have either your own way , or none , i said i would not decline it , and so it was agreed to proceed in 't . howbeit , give me leave to tell you now , as then i did not , sith you deem it such a wise way of disputation to keep to the rules of the academies , that for men of gravity , in conference of matters of such eternall concernment , it 's a most pedantick , toyish and boyish peece of business to stand fabling about moods and figures , which are but the a. b. c. or first rudiments to a scholar , and as inferiour to judicious discourse indeed , as spelling with the finger is to reading in full perfection , and that which is as fit for a wise man to forget , as it is for a fresh man to remember : besides , it 's the next way round about to the discerning the whole of any matter ; for all you then said for your way in syllogisms , which in substance was no more than this , viz. that infants have the spirit , faith , holiness , many commendations in scripture , are such of whom to doubt their having the spirit is a breach of christian charity , whom to deny baptism to , makes the covenant of the gospel worse than that under the law ; destroyes all the hope that parents can have of their salvation , crosses the practise of the universall church , which one would think you should be ashamed to make a book of ; might have been expos'd to the consideration of your respondent , in much less than half the half quarter , and given out plainly enough in a few positions for him to have replied to with your leave and silence : but time was so spin'd out by your long productions , and his repetitions of your syllogisms , that there was but a very long-little , in comparison of what else might have been delivered ; and sirs , i assure you of this one thing , i beseech you to lay it to heart in time , the generation of you disputers is rejected by the lord , and a sort of plain english men raised up , who notwithstanding the curiosity of your cudgel-play , and those fine forms of your fencing-schools , whereby you shield your selves from the truth , will by their upright down-right dealings with you , and the word , be impowered to beat your cudgels to your heads ; and though you seek to lap up the nakednes of your waies , from the sight of the people for a time , in a pair of logick breeches , yet these are wearing out a pace , so that you shall see within a while , what now you will not , that all your syllogisticall forms , will not secure your sylli-popicall matters . report . fifthly , you tell us 't was agreed that i should be respondent , which though there was little reason for , in regard i invaded the practise of the church , whereof you the ministers were defendants , and ought to have shewed upon what grounds i did it , the confuting of which would havt tended more to the satisfaction of the auditory , was by you the ministers yielded to at my importunity . reply . o yes ! all manner of persons that were at the disputation at ashford give attendance , here 's as pretty a prank as you shall likely see plaid by any , save a classis of clergy-men , and among them you may likely see the like again , viz. a tale told transversim , a thing storied out archipodialitèr , or with heels upwards : and you of the clergy that were there , you specially that fingred out this article , heed what i say : that i who invaded the practise of the church , for so i did , not of god but of rome , england , scotland , france , and ireland , &c. in the point of infant-sprinkling wherein they are all romishly devoted , should come before s of people , before you mis-ministers also , professing my desires , and the very end of my being there to be no other then ( because i was counted an heretick for denying infant-sprinkling ) to give account , or ( to speak in y●ur own terms ) to shew upon what grounds i did it , moving , urging , earnestly claiming by the very university orders , which your selves stood strictly to tye me to , that i might have two hours , or ( if not so ) but one , or ( if not so ) but half a one , wherein to lay down upon what grounds i denied infant-spri●kling , that you the ministers , defendants of that way of yours might confute those grounds of mine ( if you could ) as that which would have tended more in my mind ( as well as yours ) to the satisfaction of the auditors , then any thing else ( for even all this i did that day at ashford ) and that you the ministers should be utterly against my giving this account , and shewing my grounds , which i would so fain have shewen , rather then heard yours ( for no less then this do you confess your selves , saying page . that before the dispute i moved to make a position , and page . that after the dispute i made a motion that you would hear me preach , that is , give account , or sh●w the grounds of my dissent ( for so i spake , leaving you a liberty to take your exceptions when i had done ) and that your selves onely concluded it un-necessary , yea , oppos'd it , and made three or four [ frivilous ] pretences against it , for even this also you confess your selves , page . page . that you ( i say ) the same ministers that did thus ponere obicem by your own confession , should yet in the same paper write thus , namely , that i ought to have shew'd upon what grounds i denied your practise , that you might have confuted them to the satisfaction of the people , as if your selves had been very forward that i should give account , or shew my arguments and reasons , onely my selfe was against it , and opposed it , and that with importunity , as if i had urg'd , that at any hand i might not give account of what i did , 't is such a cunning contradiction to your selves as i never saw penn'd by the hands of prudent men since i was born to this day ; sirs , if i should have said so much as this of my self , that i ought to have shew'd my grounds upon which i denied infants-sprinkling , but was at that time importunate with you that i might not , my own conscience , which is mille testes , and a thousand witnesses besides , would condemn me as no ordinary self-belyar , for i profess before the lord , and those many people that then heard me , many of which ( unless willingly ) cannot be ignorant hereof , i was most forward that day to give out the grounds of the way i walk in , but that your selves ( not the people ) were most froward against it : but the people have believ'd you so long at a venture in other cases , that though both you , and they know the truth to be contrary to what you say , yet you hope they will believe you so still , but the lord grant them to find out your forgery for the future , and to be no more guld by your ghostly glosses . report . sixthly , that there should be no tumults , no interruption of the disputants that no provoking terms , whereby offence might be justly given or taken , should be used , that if any such were , warning should be given and satisfaction made , or the disputation to break up , and the blame to ly upon that side which did transgresse . reply . you might as well have given account who they were that did violate this agreement , as of the article it self , but then you had brought no little blame upon your selves , and thereupon very likely you forbore it : for as when you propounded this article ( little considering that your selves were most likely to grow regardless of it ) you made a r●d for your own tails , so you had assuredly slashed your selves soundly therewith had you told all the truth indeed , for though this ( as all the rest ) was your own by - proposall , your antagonists only by assent , yet verily even you the law-givers were the the men that did most grosly transgress it , yea some of you seem'd to sit there for nothing else but to blur , and blunder the proceedings by some impertinent interposals , or other , so that after questions askt me three or four times over , by your selves , and leave as often askt you by me to answer , yet the anticipations of some or other of you either forbad me to begin , or at least cut me off before the end : this article therefore being broken by you in the other parts of it must be kept in the last clause thereof at least viz. the blame of the breach ly upon you . report . seventhly , that after the disputation ended it might be lawful for any one of the congregation , leave first obtained of the ministers , to ask questions , and to propound his arguments not being tyed to any syllogistical forms and to receive satisfaction . reply . 't was the facultie of the pharisees of old to affect the chief seats in the synagogues , and t is the fashion of you masters in israel now , to take upon you to be the chai●-men still , and to bear such sway in the publick places , that the people may not meddle there to speak a word , or urge an argument , or ask a question , or without leave from you masters of the synagogues so much as once to quack in you● presence : but sirs the best on 't is you have now in this year of iubilee . ( for so doth your book beare date ) given not only toleration , but advice and invitation too to all people to ask the priest p. . and therefore though formerly they might not do it at all , and even now they do it oft to little purpose , yet i hope you will have them excused ( for do it they will , by your leave , now , and then ) when they ask you questions in your cathedralls without asking you any more leave so to do . report . next you tell us , that it was also moved by the ministers , that two moderators might be nominated , and also clerks appointed for the writing down both of the arguments and answers , the originalls to be left in the hands of the moderators , that so no mis-reports might be raised concerning them ; or if any were , the truth might be made appear to any that should desire satisfaction , by repairing to them , which i utterly refusing , the ministers superseded from further urging of it . reply . i did indeed refuse to chuse any moderator my self save the whole auditory ) as knowing how basely the truth hath been captivated , and kept under for heresy by the clawes of the clergy , when subjected to their determination ; yet did i not deny to have any chosen , for i left you the liberty to chuse whom you would , who very goodly ( but how justly let all men judge ) made choise of one to determine as judge in his own cause , who was the only opponent almost ( altogether if the true account were not false , which sets down no arguments but his ) but however the prime plantiff in the disputation , and as finely he fitted your fancies , that are affected so much with falsity , and foppery ; of both which there was great store in his re●●pitulation . as for me , could i easily have suspected there would have been such immoderation amongst you as was , striking up so many of you together sometimes , that neither i could be heard by any of you at all , nor your selves very well by one another , it had not been amiss to have admitted of moderators to have kept you in some better order ; for ●lerks also for the setting down of things truly , had i thought you would have taken such advantage for want thereof , as to raise ( and that in print too ) so many mis-reports as your selves have done , i had probably closed with you in that motion , and though i refused to do it then , ( as being better opinion'd of you then you have since deserved for ) yet it 's more than i am like to do again , if e're i meet you in another disputation for that slippery tricks sake you have serv'd me concerning this : ictus piscator sapit . but as to this there 's no remedy now , save my n● , to your yea , and the memories of the people that heard us , my supreme appeal for moderation is to christ , the supreme moderator of heaven and earth , before whom ( as i told you then i hoped i should speak nothing of which i should have cause to be ashamed ) so i tell you now , i hope i shall pen nothing of which i maie be affraid to give account when he appears , and we appear before his tribunall : the same lord come quickly , and judge between us , even so amen . report . after these propositions were agreed upon , you say , i moved to have liberty to make my position ; which after debate of the unnecessariness of it , the question being already stated , and the terms known , and understood by every one , was yielded to , so i exceeded not a quarter of an hour , which was accepted by me . reply . though the question were stated , and terms known never so well , ( as i deny they are to every one in the question of infants baptism , for such as are used only to sprinkling , take that to be baptism which is not ) yet the grounds were not known upon which i held the negative , and therefore 't was not unnecessary for me to make a position : moreover , i invading the practise of your church , in tha● point , wherof you profess your selves to be defendants , i ought to have shewed upon what grounds i did it , that you might have confuted them , this would have tended more to the satisfaction of the auditory , than the omission of it could do ; if you will not believe me in this , yet at least believe your selves , for these are no other words then your own , yet i confess you have no great reason to give heed to your selves neither , considering how many offs , and ons you are found in ; for one while you assert it needfull that i should lay down my grounds ( as above ) another while ( as here ) that i moved ( and had you said with importunity too you , had spoken now no more than the truth ) to make a position , or , which is all one , to lay down my grounds , onely you saw the unnecessariness of it : o pure stuff ! at last through much importuning to have an hour or two wherein to do it , and promising much more then you would accept of , viz. that if that day were too short to dispute in , i would give you the next day , and the next , and lastly pleading the equity of the thing from the order of the schools , where there 's no disputation without position , to which order you had by article oblig'd us , such high condescension was acted by you presidents of the place , that i was allowed the large liberty of a quarter . report . next you go on to declare the sum of my position , and that being come into the body of the church , you the ministers entred into the desk , and i standing a little distance off upon one of the seats , leaning to a pillar , and the multitude being silent , i made my position . reply . for your relation of my leaning to a pillar , it being neither true , nor material , what doth it here i wonder in this your short , and true relation , as you call it , of the most material things that passed ? yet sith 't is acknowledged by you to be a mistake in the margent of the coppy that you sent me . i 'le not onlie excuse it for once , though an error , but lend you a little toward the making of it truth , for i did lean indeed that day to a pillar , even the true church of god , which is the pillar and ground of truth , which would you all lean as much to , as you do from it in these tottering times , you would stand a little faster than you are like to do , and secure your selves from that fall that is threatned in these words babylon is fallen , is fallen , which though your tower reach as high as heaven , as that old tower of babell seem'd to do , the division of language that is in these daies wil e're long unavoidably bring upon you . report . the heads of my position you say are four , to which sith you subject four answers of your own , i 'le reduce each of them to the severall head it relates to , and so reply to both of them together . first , that i need not spend time about stating the question it being done before at the communion table : to this first you saie , answer was made that herein i confirmed the ministers reasons against my making of a position . reply . though there was no need to spend time in acquainting them with the question over again because that was done before at the table , yet there was need , and so i expressed my self often enough , to spend time , yea four or five times more than i could get of you , in stating the question , i. e. of making a position , for even with your selves these two are synonima's , for what you stile stating the question in the first head the very same you call making a position in your answer , yet such is your subtilty that you here represent it as if i , who was so earnest before to have liberty to state the question in a position , and moved it as a matter most needfull , were already so altered in my judgement , as in the front of my position to profess it needless to spend time about it : sirs , what a sight of in s , and outs , are here ? do you not remember , or if you will not , yet some people will , that my chief complaint of you to them in my position was this , that though i so much desired it , though it was very requisite , and the manner of the schools , to which you tied me , and therefore i ought of right to have had an hours time , yet you had crowded me into the corner of a quarter ? which shewes that though you deem'd it wast of time for me to say anie thing almost about the question , yet i judg'd it very needfull to speak more to it than your patience was pleased to permit me , and yet it 's not enough for you , in your account of the position , to leave well-nigh all that little out which in that little time was declared as to the falsness of your administration by the way of sprinkling , and other matters of your ministery , but you also falter and feign , and forge so fowlie in your sum of the position as to set down more in 't than was ever thought on . report . secondly , that i came thither to defend the unlawfullness of childrens baptism . which an evill and adulterous generation did maintain against me : to which you saie it was answered , that i transgressed the propositions , in giving reviling and opprobrious terms , callng you a wicked and adulterous generation : to which , saie you , i replyed that my intent was not to fasten those words upon any there present , that i desired they might be so taken , which by you was admitted of . reply . i came not thither , i. e. to ashford so much to defend as to prove , could i have been licensed thereunto by your spiritual court , the unlawfulness of childrens baptism , yet not of childrens baptism so much , which though it is easie , yet is needless to be disproved , because no where dispensed that i know of , but rather of childrens sprinkling , which as it is doublie unlawful , so is universallie practised : of this end of my comming i gave evidence enough in debating the fourth proposition , professing that i came to give account of my dissent , and denial of the truth of your waie , but when you denied me to give my desired account , wherein i would have been a plantiff and a prover , i must then defend , or do nothing , neither did i saie of this evil and adulterous generation that they maintained it against me , but themselves , for whether they do , or do it not they cannot hurt me thereby , but if they do it the worst will be their own , for as they of old that rejected the true baptism for none luke . . did reject the councel of god against themselves , so do they that reject it for a false one : as to the terms of evil and adulterous generation , concerning which you first charge me , and then acquitted me as not intending them to you , i meant them then in verie deed of this age wherein we live , yet so long as you go a whoring from god after waies of mens tradition , and teach people to do so , as you do , i see not how i could have been truly said to revile , had i used them directly to your selves . report . thirdly , that though i had once been of that opinion , and a minister of the church , and received orders from it , yet now i was of another , and did renounce both the church and her orders ; to which say you , 't was answered , that it was no marvell that i , that had forsaken the church , should afterwards revile and despise her , and that god having suffered me to fall into so gross an error , as to deny and renounce my first baptism , did in his just judgement suffer me to fall further and further , heresie being like a precipice , where after a man hath begun his run , he cannot stay till he come to the bottom . reply . i was once of that opinion indeed , and practise too , together with your selves , and had not a little zeal thereof ( though not according to knowledge ) when i acted in your false function , by implicit faith , and made the directories , canons , catechisms , creeds of the clergies compiling my rule ( as many more did besides my self ) not comparing them so singly as i should have done with that true directory of the word ; but i have since seen good occasion to recant it , as you will undoubtedly do also first or last , ( and o that it may be yet in time to your peace ! ) notwithstanding , your now forwardness to uphold it : i was also ( in your sence ) once a minister of the church , but since , going about to look for that ministry of the church , and for that church whereof i thought my selfe a minister , from thenceforth i could never find either t'one or t'other : as for your church of england , i confess i received twice her holy orders , viz. once from the bishops , in the daies of their dominion , by whom i was ordained a deacon , i. e. in scripture-sence , to look toth'poor , but in their sence , half a priest , for in that capacity , we might sprinkle , if allow'd , and give the wine to people also in the supper , but not by any means the bread , unless very specially licensed thereunto , till we should come into the full order of priest-hood , for so ran the phrase in the old english horn-book , which as to that part , was stiled , the book of the ordination of bishops , priests and deacons , once also by the presbyters ( so called ) since the time of their parricid , or cutting the throats of their fathers the bishops , that gave the being of priesthood to them , and inducting themselves to reign in their stead , as the bishops themselves had dealt not long before with their old father the pope , who gave the being of priesthood to them both , from whom not as a priest-hood , but a true presbytery , as they say , i was in orders to practise their refined popery more perfectly , which i might do before but by the halves : but now i know not where this church of england is , if you speak of a true church of christ , unless you can prove things to have their true being , without either their true matter or true form : for as the subject matter whereof it consists is false , being not baptized believers , so the form into which the pope cast it some years since , in to which also the prelate and presbyter have new cast it , being and that subpaena too , national , provinciall , parochiall , is utterly false , and her fellowship as good as none at all , because not free , but forced : and as for the true ministry thereof , i know not where it is neither , if that onely be a true one , as you were wont to say it is , that can derive it self by a line from the very apostles ; neither can you make good your interrupted succession from them , unless the pope , from whom your series comes , was even then a true minister of christ , when he was also an antichristian deceiver ; and unless apostacy and apostolicy , can so stand together , as that rome was even then an apostolick church when 't was palpably apparent to be an harlot ; neither if i could tell where , can i tell very well which is the ministry of your church of england , there are so many ministries in it now , namely , prelaticall , high-presbyterian , presbyterian-independent , each of which lay claim to that title , but being both themselves , and their adherents for such different forms of government , cannot all three be the ministry of one church , unless your church of england , that was of old so full of uniformity , is now become capable of tri-formety in its discipline and ministry ; and yet to be intirely but one ministry and church of england still ; which if it be , it s a tr-iform monster then indeed . as to your answer to this third head , i wish you to weigh how rawly you utter your selves , whilst just after your selves had clear'd me from the guilt of reviling , and before i had us'd any new terms , that could have the least savor of reviling , you return to charge me of it again ; but no marvel when every round reprover , and renouncer of your romishness , is as much a reviler with you , as your selves are at rome , for renouncing that grosser popery that 's there . howbeit , in truth he reviles your church no more , that calls it a very harlot , if it be so , then your selves revile rome in calling her a harlot because she is so : you hint at my renouncing my first baptism : can a man renounce that he never had ? for what was dispenc't when i was a child , as t is no signe to me now , for i remember not that i ever saw it , so i learn by the hear-say of it , that it was not baptism at all : as for this last , which is also the first baptism that ever was administred to me ; i see no cause to renounce it as yet , nor yet i am well assured ever shall . as for heresie , or believing and doing besides the word , t is a precipice indeed , where after men have begun their run , unless the lord mercifully prevent them , as he hath done me , and many more of late , and i desire may your selves in due time , who are all gone astray from primitive truth , after the doctrines and commandements of men , they cannot well stay till they come to the bottom , even the bottomless pit it self , into which that arch-heretitk the pope who open'd it , and that numberless crue of corrupt clergy-men , which by the advantage of that smoak of errors , with which he darkened the sun , and the air ascended from it , will fall again ; for out of the bottomless pit those locusts came , and into the bottomless pit they must return . report . fourthly . that i was a fool and an ass , and the weakest of many , to defend the doctrine of iesus christ , yet doubted not but to make it clear against every opponent : to which your answer was , that that which i said of my self out of a voluntary humility , you the ministers did acknowledge out of the sense of your wants . reply . as to secular literature , i did indeed acknowlege my self to be a dunce and a fool , but as to your bringing me in here , as branding my self with the name of ass , i must protest against it as one of those scandalous and false aspersions , with many more of which this story of yours is stored ; in trial of which , i appeal to a letter sent to me , some few dayes after the disputation , from an eminent gentleman then of your party ; my answer whereunto you cavill at , but care not for answering at all your selves : wherein he writes thus to me as concerning this present passage , viz. if any man should ask my opinion now , notwithstanding your seeming modesty to term your self dunce and fool , i should be apt to conclude with the proverb , that to me you did appear by much more knave than fool : either therefore this gentlemans memory was better than yours , or else your faculty of forging is greater than his , and this is most likely of the two ; for though he reviles me through ignorance of what i am , yet i think he spake plainly what he thought , and repeated no more than what i spake of my self , but you ( oportet mendacem esse memorem ) whether wittingly or no , it concerns you to examine , have most grosly falsified my words , that you may fasten the fouler blemish upon my person ; this language you learn'd be like from dr. featly , who very often , al-to-be-asses the anabaptists calling his argument from circumcision to infant-baptism in respect of the anabaptists pontem asinorum a bridge which these asses could never pass over , p. . also in his preface to the reader , wherein rating the russet rabbies for preaching against the errors of the priest-hood , what ( quoth he ) are all the prophets become mad , that the asses mouth must needs be open by miracle to reprove them ? nor doth he say so altogether without some reason : for verily we were all once ass-assinated so farre ( as most christ'n creatures are still ) as to yield our selves up to be rid by balaam the false prophet i. e. assemblies and classes of the clergy , who love ty●hes , the wages of their unrighteousness , and take toll of all people for deluding them ; till upon a time we saw the angel of the lord , with his sword ready drawn in his hand to destroy him , as he was riding us to defie israel , since when , refusing to go with him any further though he smites us , of dumb asses ( as we were before ) we are become ( the lord opening our mouths ) a people speaking with mans voice , and forbidding the madness of the prophet . moreover , i may well excuse your calling me asse by craft , whilst you condescend to call your selves unawares by the same name of fools and asses , for do but mark what you here say of me , and how you make it agree with your selves ; he said ( say you ) that he was a fool and an asse , and that which he said of himself out of a voluntary humility , the ministers did acknowledge i. e. of themselves , out of a sense of their wants : fallere fallentem non est fraus . report . you tell us furrher , that you prayd the congregation that sinee you were not the men appointed for the disputation , but onely undertook it , that the truth might not be wholly deserted , and the current of slanders , which was likely to rush in against it , might be somewhat interrupted by the seasonable interposing of your selves , they would not suffer any defects of yours to prejudice the cause , that it was the truth on your side did animate you to undertake it , which you were ready to evince by the arguments following , leaving the success to god , to whom onely it belonged to convince the understanding . reply . here 's much talk of the truth , and the truth , but the truth is , your undertakings have been ever a deserting of the truth , as it is in iesus ; and causes of a current of slanders that rush in against it in every parish , from the mouthes of your priest-rid people , who living under your constant out-cries of heresie , schism , and such like upon all that suits not with your covetous interest , have learnt exactly to speak in your tongue , as if they had been spit out of your mouthes : as for your seasonable interposure , it is by so much unseasonable , as t' will prove succesless to your ends ; for though , while the clergies will was the worlds law , their interposings did interrupt all arisings of truth , yet now t is the time of the end wherein men wil run to and fro , and you labor in the fire , and weary your selves for very vanity , to uphold your thred-bare traditions , for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the lord , as the waters cover the sea . report . the sum of the disputation held at ashford in kent , iuly . reply . had these two brief businesses which you stile above [ the sum of my position ] and here [ the sum of the disputation ] been stilled [ some of the position ] [ some of the disputation , ] or a little of one , and a little of t'other you had bin in the right on 't , for there 's scarce so much as some of either : as for the position you have dispos'd on 't out of the way , and diminisht the disputation into nothing almost , in comparison of the true proportion of both . now as to this piece of business which you stile the sum of the disputation , i must talk with it two wayes , and deal with it under this double notion , first , as t is a relation of the then disputation . secondly , as t is your disputation for infant-baptism : i shall shew the falsness of the one , and the foolishness of the other ; and then come to review your review , your relation ( so you term it ) is most manifestly false , if not as false a one as was ever pend , or printed concerning such a matter ; since the pope and his priests , perceiving their kingdom to decline by the breakings forth of truth from under their smothers , began to be-lye its witnesses to this day : i shall take notice of a few more of your figments , and two or three passages in the disputation , which passed by the memories of you accountants , least by telling the whole truth you should shame the devil and your selves , which may suffice to prove a disproportion between your tattale , and its title of true account , and so leave it to the unprejudic'd auditors of our discourse , and impartiall per-users of our relations . report . first , you assert page . and that point blank , that i confessed that at three or four years old many began to be instructed in principles of religion , and that at that age they might be baptized , but afterwards that proof being offered that infants of a day old were as capable of baptism , i would have recalled it . reply . sirs , why hath satan filled your hearts to ly thus against the truth , and by filching out of the waie ( purposelie as may be supposed ) what was of most moment to the making out of my true meaning , to wrest , and represent my expressions and intentions in them as croslie and contradictorily to what they were intended , as yea , and nay are one unto the other ? that children at three or four years old ( as your selves then affirmed ) may be instructed , i granted , and do still acknowledge with you , but that i said at that age they might be baptized , upon that account of bare instruction unless apparently effectual to their true conversi●● 〈◊〉 the faith , so that by profession they give good ground to our consciences to believe that they believe , i here disclaim it , as either a mis-conception , or rather a meer conception , and birth of your own brains ; and profess it in the sight of god , and all men to be that which ( in the sence you here insert it in ) came not so much as into my mind , much less out of my mouth at that time ; and though i find you so un-ingenuous in your dealing , that i wonder how you can wish me to deal ingenouusly with you as you do , yet can i not conceive you to be so unjudicious as to conceive i confest as you have here accounted ; since my speech , to all that were not dull of understanding , was most plain to a very contrary purpose and tended to shew the utter unwarrantableness of baptizing , at any age at all , whether in non-age , middle-age , or old-age , unless it be found in the way of faith , and therefore of baptizing anie infants , in respect not only of their incapacitie to believe , but much more to make profession of belief : i shall therefore give you , and the world too , wherebie yours must needs appear to be a juggle , a more true account of the dilation that was then between us : on this wise it was : i confess i granted ( for 't is the verie truth , though not of a straws weight to your purpose ) that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mat. . . was meant children in non-age , to which christ saies his disciples must be like , although bie the phrase v. . viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i asserted then , and see no occasion of saying otherwise to this hour , that he means his disciples , whom he likens to the other , and not little ones in age , and bodily stature ; in proof of which i referr'd you to mat. . . where under the self same greek phraise viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; he expresses no other than his disciples , there being no little child then among them of which he could be imagined to speak : moreover i shewing how that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ whence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] did properly signifie not such an infant as you sprinkle , which cannot speak ( called infans , quasi non fans ) but a child capable at least to be instructed ( and so you are to seek still for infant-baptism ) 't was bolted out bie you that at three or four years old many began to be instructed even in principles of religion , and that then at least they might be baptized ; whereupon i replyed , that 't was neither this nor that age , old or young , gave right , yea that no age could make a fit subject for baptism , but that wherein a person is apparently instructed to conversion , and that when so instructed they were to be baptized , whether old or young , so that if you could so effectually instruct children at three or four years of age as to bring them to make such profession of faith , as i could not but judge to proceed from the reality thereof within , i could then for my part baptize them ; yet i thought it was a thing very seldome if ever at all visibly effected ; to this effect , and much what in iisdem terminis did i then deliver my self , yet so willingly were you mistaken in my meaning , as downrightly to set me out for such a childish novice , as met you before thousands to maintain the unlawfulnes of childrens baptism , and held a discourse of hours to that end , and yet confest the lawfulness of it so soon as ever we had well begun : but sirs , suppose i had confessed ( as i did not ) that children of three or four years old , because capable at that age to be instructed , might without respect to the begetting of faith in them , by that instruction , even then , and thereupon only be baptized ; yet will you not at last be ashamed think you of that ignorant assertion of yours , namely , that infants of a day old are as capable of baptism as they ? for grant it should be granted you ( as it is not ) that bare instruction without any success thereof to conversion is a good ground to baptize persons on at three or four years of age , yet is it a ground whereupon to baptize infants of a day old , that are not capable of so much as that bare instruction ? a man may in much wisedom , and some hopes ( if not of present yet ) of future conversion thereby begin to indoctrinate his children at three or four years old , and instill the principles of truth into them , as preparative to their obeying it hereafter , and also to baptism it self in due time ; yet i judge him as very a child as his child , that goes about to instruct , and baptize it so soon as t is born ; yet after your own assertion , by which you would make men believe i asserted that children of three or four years old are capable of instruction , and consequently of baptism so young , you second it with another more absurd , and false than the former , namely , that children of a day old are [ as ] capable of it as they : say you so sirs ? are infants of a day old capable of baptism , that cannot so much as be instructed in principles much less be begotten to the true religion ? or if you say you hold not their right to baptism from a capableness of instruction from which you plead the other , but upon other grounds , upon what grounds ? i beseech you sirs , upon what grounds ? as you offered to shew them then so shew them now if you can , for none of the arguments in your account can possibly prove such a thing . what infants of a day old ? i 'le saie it again that you may consider it , for sure you did not consider what you said when you said it , what children of day old ? fie for shame , sirs had you said infants of eight daies old it might have held some proportion with that grand ground you go upon , viz. the analogy between baptism and circumcision , but this opinion doth not cotten at all with that , for the subject of circumcision , which you all say , though falsely , is one and the same with that of baptism , was one of at least eight daies old , and an infant of one day only was not a warrantable subject thereof , nor an infant of seven daies neither , though likely to die before the eighth ; but as for you , though your chief plea for your timely untimely rantizing infants be grounded upon that timely dispensation of circumcision , yet , as if you had a mind to proclaim your selves be-blinded , so that you cannot walk by christs right rules , nor your own wrong ones neither , you take the liberty to out-stand , or anticipate the eighth day at your pleasure : hence the birth day is as warrantable with you , as the eight , yea , in case of imminent danger of death ( in which case circumcision might not alter ) ti 's a learned question among some infant-sprinklers , whether the mid-wife may not sprinkle it before it s born , i. e. while is hangs yet between the womb , and the world ; but too soon is too soon in all conscience ) and again when it fits better with your plum-cake occasions , the tenth , twelfth , or eight and twentyth day must be as acceptable to god as the eighth , yea , when it seems good to the wisdom of the church , i. e. the clergy , it may be deferred for no less than two or three hundred daies together , witness the old rubrik , which saith , that in old time baptism was not ministered but at two times in the year , viz. at easter and whitsontide , but that custome being grown out of use for many considerations ( i know not any but the clergies good will , and pleasure ) cannot now well be restored : thus you ride people to and fro as you lift , and run manie miles from your own rules as well as christs , for if circumcision be your rule for the time of baptisms administration , keep punctually to the particular time of the eighth day , as well as to the generall time of infancy , or else ( you may tell me the eighth day is a circumstance not to be regarded , whilst i tell you 't is such a substance that moses was like to be slain for overslipping it , yet ) by your favour , sirs , and by the same reason that you take an inch , i 'le take an ell , yea if you can acceptably go a fingers bredth besides the rule of circumcision , i may go an hundred furlongs , and by the same authoritie that you delay the dispensation beyond the eighth , to the tenth , twelft , or the hundreth day , i may delay it ( unless belief withall the heart do ingage to it before ) to the ten thousandth day or more , nor can you question me why do you thus ? secondly , whereas for my undertaking to rectifie you in your gross misapprehension , and reduce you from the misconstruction i saw you make of my speech ( which leaves you without excuse in this rude recording ) you record me as recalling what i said , i protest against that as another of your figments , which you had need both to recant , and repent of : there was but one thing recalled all that day that i know of , viz. that iohn baptist spake so soon as he came out of the womb ; that being rashly uttered by one in a black coat was indeed as readily recalled : as for my self what i said then , i was so far from recalling , that i 'le give you the advantage of saying the same over again : hear therefore you deaf that you may understand , bring me the children of three or four years old not instructed only ( for so the wickedst heathen may be ) but instructed to conversion , and profession of faith ( not verbal onely ( for a parret may be taught to prate ) but real ( as may seem at least ) and to desire baptism in christs name ) yea more , bring me the infants of three or four daies old thus truly discipled , and blame me for ever if i be not as forward to baptize them , as your selves are to rantize them undiscipled . this is the sense i then spake in , the lord knows my heart to whom i appeal ultimately to judge between us . i have spoken it thus over again , you have now my mind more fully among you , mistake it not , but take it dexterously and make your best on 't , report . next you relate ( and that most fictitiously ) that i having asserted circumcision to be a seal of the righteousness of saith to abraham only , and not to his posterity , and being urged to shew any scripture that did import a change in the signification , and told that such a change must needs intimate that the same covenant was not made with abrahams seed , that was made with himself , i was so foundered , that though you ingaged to become anabaptists if i did it , yet i answered nothing that carried any sense or reason to the purpose . reply . this i say is another of your your figments : for first to let pass the sophisticall terms you used whilst you askt how or when circumcision ceased to be a seal of the righteousness of faith even to abrahams posterity ? as if i had granted that circumcision was once a seal of the righteousness of faith even to abrahams posterity as well as himself , and then was changed , ceased , & left off to be so , wheras i told you then , that though 't was so to abraham himself , yet it never was so to them at all , & do also tel you now , that when a man saies of a thing that it never was so , it is but an illiterate kind of quere to ask him again , when it ceased to be so ? secondly , confessing that i then affirmed , and also still affirming the same , viz. that circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of faith to abraham only , and not to his posteritie ; i profess thirdly , before the world , appealing to your own consciences to witness , that as it is most plain in the scripture , so i then made a most plain discoverie of it from the scripture , that there were other ends , uses , and significations of circumcision to abrahams own person ( though in some respects there were also the same ) then those for which it was dispensed to his seed , and that notwithstanding many things , which were promised to abraham , were promised to all his seed together with him , yet there were somethings also promised to abraham in the covenant of circumcision , which his seed had no promise of at all , as namely , first , that he should be the father of all believers . this i am most certain i then instanc'd in , and according to your then demand cleared by scripture , even that very scripture which was then quoted by your selves , rom. . . and repeating the whole verse , whereof you , for your own ends , mentioned but a part . i told you t was evident even thence that abraham had one preheminence , and priviledge that none of his posteritie had ever after him , which he obtained of god by his preheminence in believing , viz. the fatherhood of the faithful ; of which eminent faith of his , which was imputed to him for righteousness , as well as of that eminent prerogative , the fatherhood of the faithful , which god gave him upon that great faith , circumcision was given him as a seal , in such a sence , as t was never given to his seed , a seal i said , for it was a sign only but no seal to his posteritie , to honor the greatness , not to strengthen the weakness of his faith , i. e. to confirm him , that was so great a believer , even beyond hope , n that honorable title , which god put upon him ; therfore i told you it runs thus , viz. he received the sign circumcision , i. e. circumcision , ( which in its ordinary use was a sign ) a seal to him in this special sense , i. e. as a seal of the righteousness of that eminent faith which he had , that he might be , i. e. to that very end and purpose as to ratifie him in that royal title , the father of all that believe ; to this purpose i then spake , shewing withall that in the same sense in which the father is said to seal the sonne , iohn . . to be the giver of that meat that endures to eternall life , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 him hath the father sealed , i. e. authorized to that business , honoured with that office , and as pharoah honoured ioseph , with the sole dispensation of all the corn , and government of his kingdome , and as kings under the broad seal do seal men to , i. e. honour them with , and settle them in great places , trusts and titles , &c. in such a sense is god in that place said to give circumcision to abraham , whereby to seal him up , and settle him for ever in that glorious title , viz. the father of all that believe ; in which sense circumcision ( though a sign of some things in common to him with his posterity ) was never given to any one of abrahams posterity at all : this as it is clearly held forth in that place , so was so clearly held forth to you from that place of your own naming at that very time , that as i wondered you could be ignorant of it then , so i much more admire , that you are not ashamed to bewray such dissembling in the recording of it as you do , and such wretched ignorance of it still ; besides , i know not whether i instanc'd then in any other , but i am sure ( as shy as you seem to be of it ) there were divers more promises made , and priviledges made over to abraham under the great seal circumcision , which were neither made nor given , much less confirmed by circumcision as a seal thereof to all his posterity , viz. that his seed should inherit canaan , this though it was made . and made good to abraham , and that seed of his to whom it was promised , yet not to the seed of all his seed , for many of his posterity ( as ishmael , who was circumcised , and his children by keturah also , and their whole race ) had none of all this seal'd to them by circumcision : again , that christ should come out of his loyns , that in his seed all nations should be blessed , these were made to abraham , and were ( as the rest also ) great priviledges to the honour of which he was sealed , yet though 't was signified to all his seed by circumcision , that christ should come of him after the flesh , all of them had not that previledge by promise that christ should come of them after the flesh : by all which it undeniably appears that the same covenant of circumcision , in every of those respects in which circumcision was given him as a seal of it , was not given to all the iews , and their children , and that fore-named place speaks of circumcision onely in reference to abrahams person , and in that sense , and respect in which it was given to him only as a seal of his faith . i. e. that strong faith he acted , and gave glory to god by , rom. . . for which god also gave that great glory and dignity to him , viz. the father-hood of the faithfull : all which notwithstanding , and much to the same effect that was uttered then , to shew that circumcision had more ends , and relations to abrahams person , then to the persons of his seed ; yea , and though your own paper , which lastly i appeal to , doth testifie that i i multiplied words , that is to say , spake much about other ends of circumcision to abraham then to his seed , yet you both be-lie me , and give the lie to your selves so far as to say , i was extreamly foundered , which to say , and yet to say in the very same line , that i multiplied words about other ends of circumcision , the very point your selves had urg'd me to speak to , if it be not at once to say , and unsay , then verily i know not what is ; for these two are contradictory to each other : but perhaps you think to salve all with this , that being call'd to speak punctually to that end , viz. whether circumcision were a seal of the righteousness of faith to abrahams posterity at all or not , or if not to shew it , i answered nothing to that particular , that carried any sense or reason in it : but really sirs , i said no less to that very end , but rather much more then i have said a little above , which whether it have any sense or reason in 't or no , yet was it both sensless and reasonless in you however to leave it wholly out , and you had dealt far more ingenuously and judiciously in your own account , and in every rationall mans also , had you set down what i answered , and so put your reader into a capacity of discerning , whether it were to the purpose yea or no : but that its like you were very loath to do , least ( as nothing as it was to your purpose ) it should have been more serviceable then you desire it to be to ours . as for that ingagement whereby ( how wisely a fool may see ) you bound your selves to become anabaptists , in case i made discovery of what i did abundantly discover , i freely dis-engage you from that double performance , and shall accept much more of your single submission to that ordinance , it being no matter of rejoicing to to me to see any man translated from a-no-baptist to be an anabaptist for that is from one extream to another . report . next you relate p. . that i said i did not deny but that little children might have the holy ghost and these texts of scripture , viz. mar. . . mat. . . luke . , . cor. . . did seem to intimate as much , but that it could not be made appear that they had it to the making of them subjects of baptism . reply . to this which is another flat falsity , and counterfeit resemblrnce , i reply thus , first that little children might have the holy spirit , if god please extraordinarily to infuse it , i might then possibly not deny , nor dare i yet deny but that possibly they may , but it 's more then god hath manifested if they have , to either us , or you : nor will this grant either prove the propriety of your position , who down-rightly declare they have it , or warrant your baptizing them thereupon , so long as still 't is unapparent to you that they have it : for first , à posse ad esse non valet consequentia ; it follows not because it may be , therefore 't is : yet such country-clearing of things is seen now and then among you countrey clergy-men , that if from may-be to must-be , may not pass for good reason , there must be no more given at all ; witness the yery last argument us'd by the first opponent at this ashford disputation , whereby to prove infants to have the spirit , who having urg'd the example of iohn baptist , ( whose example is also hinted in your review p. . of your pamphlet ) just before to this effect . viz. iohn had the holy spirit from the womb , therefore children have it , and being answered to that thus , viz. ex puris negativis , et particularibus nihil sequitur universale , claps in this consequence to close up his discourse with , viz. it doth not appear to you that children have not the spirit ( as much as to say they may for ought you know have the holy spirit ) therefore they have it . to whom 't was repli'd , that it would not follow that i was at canterbury such a day , because it did not appear to him that i was not : and this as i remember ( though your account doth very freely forget all this , but i hope you will remember to be asham'd on 't ) was the very period of that mans disputation with me , saving what he added after in his recapitulatory moderation , and after that in other emergent conferences with me and others , to whose non-sequiturs , as i have in faithfulness set down what i returned then , so ( pace vestrâ ) i say thus much more now , viz. that if i should go about to prove from the possibility of things to be so or so , or from their non-appearance to be not so , though not yet appearing to be so , that therefore they are so , viz. more worlds then one , or another world of men in the moon , or , as he from the particular case of iohn baptist to other infants , so i should syllogize from the particular and extraordinary case of balaams ass to other creatures of that kind , viz. balaams ass , by a special power of god upon him , did speak and reprove the madness of the prophet , therefore very asses can speak plain enough to reprove the madness of the priests , though i have learn'd christ better then to record him as such a one for the like deduction , yet i know who have so well learn'd the featlaean language , that in their account i should have been an ass for my labor . secondly , and this i told you then too , but your account had no mind to mention what makes against you , tum demum i. e. proprìe et quoàd nos dicuntur res fieri cum incipiunt patefieri , then things as to us are when they appear and not before , and to talk de non entibus , et non apparentibus , is one as frivolous as the other : yet such lazy learning and lowzy logick is at rome with the infatuated pope , and such of his creatures , as trouble themselves so much about tyth , that they have no time to study truth , nor understand either sense or reason , that whilst wise men indeed , whose wisdome is not as theirs is already turn'd into foolishnese , do argue from the appearings of things to be to their being ; from the evidence that they are to their existence , they magisterially impose things to be received as truth , because ipse dixit , and both assert them to be , and make men believe they appear plain enough so to be , when their say so shews them , though no inquisitive sincere self-denying christian can in the word find either how or where : of but a very little better stamp is your way of arguing here , who being hous'd by custom under a cloudy confidence that infants have the holy spirit , will needs have it appear whether it doth or no : but for my part it appears not yet to me ; yea , i reply secondly , to this part of your report , that i did indeed then say as you have here truly related , that it could not be made appear that infants have the holy spirit to the making of them subjects of baptism ; yea , i testifie the same still that it cannot , notwithstanding all your undertakings , which of what little force they are to such a purpose i shall try more at large when i handle your account over again , not as an account , but as your argumentation for infants having the holy spirit , and so right to baptism . nevertheless , thirdly , that i acknowledged any such thing as this in the least , that the scriptures above named , did seem so much as to intimate such a matter as that infants might have the holy spirit , as it had been most contradictory to that which here you say i said immediately after it , and is most contrary to my judgement to this present , so i deny it , disclaim it , and testifie again it , as another of your abominable abuses of your selves , my self and the world , into which you have feigned forth this account , and as an opinion that neither then , or ever since , nor ever before ( since i found the way of truth ) hath had the least entertainment within my bosom . and so i pass on to your other juggles , among which nigro carbone notandum est , this would not be let slip without a selah in that some few lines below this you relate thus . report . that my answer was that in scripture children were indefinitely taken , but concerning this or that particular child no proof could be made . reply . which thing i confess i said , yet take notice , i must , how you let slip ( your memories being willfully weak , as i find them very often to be ) something more of my then speech , which had you not declined to set down , would have shewed a little more plainly , and yet its prety plain as t is , but hardly quite so plain as the nose on a mans face , how you strike quite besides the iron , stear to a wrong point , and in your following undertaking upon that my answer , stickle clearly to another purpose then that proposed by me , for my speech was not concern●ng this or that particular child only , but of this or that particular child above another , viz. proof could not be made of this child in its infancy , suppose a believers , more than of a heathens , if one of these , and one of those be lookt on together ; whereupon also i then added , but you have absented it in your account , that if two infants , viz. a believers , and an unbelievers , as yet unknown which is which , should be presented to you whereof but one secundum te , ( o sacerdos ) may be baptized , it would put you very shrewdly to it to discern of your selves which of the two is the believers infant , by any more manifestation of the spirit in it than in the other ; yea i now tell you over again , that such a presentment would fumble , and puzzle both the priest and his whole parish , to find the spirit more in one infant then in all ; but you have omitted all this lea●t it should do you too much right , and too much lay open the rottenness of your principles , and yet you have set down enough to shew to any clear capacitie how you syllogiz'd besides the business i ingaged you in my speech to speak to , as well as meerly bawbled in the very business you found your selves , yea how odly did you shuffle over the thing you undertook to make appear , shewing not an inch more of ground to prove it in one or two or three little infants , then your own argument affords to prove that t is in all infants in the world ? but this being more proper to be discovered when i meddle with your argument , therefore i shall let it pass in this place , where my drift is only to take notice how you have either counterfeited , or curtail'd most of that you pretend truly to account for . report . another , and that no small abuse both of me , and your reader too , is a little further onward in your account , pag. . where after your relating of your selves asking , and of me answering you to three questions thus , viz. . quest. how those men and women whom i had baptized did make it appear that they had faith , and the holy spirit ? resp. by their profession . . quest. whether their profession , since it is possible mightly , could make it appear infallibly . resp. no. . quest. what judgement then , i could pass upon them to be the subjects of baptism , as i called them , whether any other than that of charity . resp. that of charitie . at last you leave me in the lurch , and bringing in your selves replying thus , viz. that you would have me pass the same judgement upon these little infants of whom in general the scripture hath given so good a report , and against whom in particular no exception can be raised , and the controversie between us was at an end . you shut me out from any share with you , at the end of this discourse , saying , ( but not at all shewing what i answered ) that to this i answered nothing in the least measure satisfactory , as the most judicious auditors , being afterwards inquired of , did affirm . reply . you speak right as to my answer to the three questions , for so i then replied as you say ; and have somewhat more to reply to those questions , when i shall consider them over again , as your argumentative conference , for now i deal with them only as accountative : but sirs , what a piece of legerdemain is here , in that you record , that my answer to your last reply was not in the least measure satisfactorie , in the judgement of the most judicious auditors , with whom it seems you consulted whether it were so or no , and yet shew not so much as a tittle of it ? you intimate sufficiently to our understandings , first , that there was an answer given , secondly , that you , who pretend to nothing more in your book then to give a true account of what was argued and answered , were so well acqua●nted with that answer , that you could have told what it was if you would , else how could you , and they , of whom you inquired , so sentence and censure it as not satisfactorie , unless you are , as i believe you are not , those natural bruit beasts iude speaks of that speak evil of that they know not ? yet you give us not in the least measure to know , no not so much as the sum of what it was . now as for my self , i must profess in the sight of the lord i do not well remember my self , nor con i yet clearly recall it to mind what answer i then gave to that passage , which if i did , i durst not but express it here , were it weak or strong , but because i do not , i therefore dare not meddle so much as to mention any , being resolved to repeat no more of either yours or mine , then my memorie assures me of the truth of : however i shall give answer to it anon , when i come to note it under a second notion : but as for your selves , who mind it so well that you pronounce it weak , i may well charge and challenge you implicit accountants to give account more expresly what it was that men may judge of it together with you , or else to acknowledge your selves , to be evill speakers of what you know not , or else witting concealers of what you both know , and pretend to be revealers and true accountants of to all men ; or else that you here drive on your old design , which is to crie out heresie , schism , error , weakness , vnsatisfactorine●s , &c. leaving men without the least leave , libertie , opportunitie , or advantage of trying whether things are yea or nay , as you call them ; or else that you would fain have men to be still stunn'd into that wonted blind belief of what you say at all adventures , or else that you cause men what in you lies to be unjust in determining of matters before they here them , for qui statuit aliquid parte inaudita altera aequum licet statuerit haud aequus fuerit , he that judges a matter before he hears it , it is folly and shame unto him , pro. . . or else that you have shamed your selves , injured me , mock't and mop'd all men , in giving an account to them of things which yet you refuse to give an account of ; or else lastly , that you have dealt , and i appeal to every ingenuous rational man whether you have not so done indeed , most unreasonably , most perfideously , most simulatorily , as else where , and well-nigh every where else you do , pretending plainly in your preface , that you have rendred my answers to my best advantage , whilest you both falsifie them for the most part where you mention them , and also mention the major part of them not at all , report . another and that a most manifest misrepresentatoin of things in this your true account is this , in that immediately after your third main argument , for all the rest are but appendicular to the first , drawn from the hopelesness of the salvation of infants if their baptism be denied , i say immediately after that , without the least mention of any more , or hinting so much as in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that there was any more , as if you would make all men know by these presents , that there was no more , you report thus , that there was no other answer given by me to that argument , nor yet to be expected , whereupon then one of the ministers , being desired by the rest ▪ to put an end to the disputation , spake as followeth : and so after the relation of a certain recapitulation of the arguments that had been urg'd , and the scribling ore of something more in a something more methodicall manner , and quaint composure then it was then spoken in , to which also , as it is a further pleading of infants baptism i 'le speak more anon , in short you shut up the busines , and record the disputation with me as then ended . reply . but sirs , will this be taken for a true account think you , or a true coun●terfeit rather , by wise men that were there present , when they shall see how you huddle over the matter in such hast , as to leave no less then half of it behind you ? what dispatching and patching up of things to an end you make , before your heads are half heated in the handling of them ; for verily as hanun shamefully intreated davids servants shaving o●● the one half of their beards , cutting off their clothes in the midst , and sending them away , sam. . . so have you dealt by the disputation , cutting off the business by the buttocks , and so sending it out naked into the wide world : your [ then ] sirs is a word out of joint : 't was not [ then ] but a pretty while after [ then ] before the disputation came to this full point , which you have already brought us too in your account , after which you say there was no other answer given by me , nor to be expected , for as i often offered fuller answer to all you urg'd in one intire discourse , but that 't was an unseasonable motion in your account p. . and in no wise so pleasing to your priestly patience , as 't was to the peoples , to expect so long as to hear it , so there was much more then this uttered by some of your selves , though you give us not not so much as the sum of it in this your sum : here 's but one particular mans influence toward the maintenance of infant-baptism inserted here in your account , viz. onely mr. willcocks ; this was he , who when had been the prime pleader in your cause , was afterward ( and good reason too , for he was the fittest for your turn , though not the truths ) very gravely desired by you ( how justly judge you ) to be judge in it , and to determine his own disputation , and be the main moderator of what came out of his own mouth , and mine too ; a thing never heard of in accademicall disputations , the rules of which you were so stiff to have us steer by , this was he , who ( if he were ( as not i but report saies he was ) your special pen-man in the account , as he was your special spoks-man at the disputation ) sets so light it seems by every mans else as to set down no mans arguments , but his own : it 's like they were not very much to the matter , and indeed they were not , nor his neither , though his own are exprest for the most material : but better or worse there were more arguments urg'd then these , one by a scotchman , who then liv'd at kenington , what he is call'd i know not , so well as whether , for he had a call to dover since that , from whence whether he is now call'd i know not : he laid down his argument in this form , viz. to whom the covenant belongs to them the initiall seal of it belongs , but the covenant belongs to infants , &c. but seeing me startle at his anti-scripturall term , of initial seal , by which he denoted baptism , whether he urg'd more , or what more he urg'd i remember not well , but i 'm sure he was at ne plus ultrâ in that , for i durst not admit of that improper term , which made his syllogism sophisticall , and his disputation ex falso suppositis , for he took it for granted by all men , that baptism ( as he call'd it ) is an initiall seal , about which yet sub judice lis est , it being doubted by many whether baptism be a seal at all , and deny'd by some , of whom i profess my self one so opinion'd , who in its due place shall ( i doubt not ) give good account on 't : there was likewise another argument urg'd by mr. vahan , who from acts . would have drawn the right of baptism to believers infants , and being askt whether those peter then spake to were believers or unbelievers when he spake to them , and replying that they were believers , heard the contrary both clear'd by my self , and confessed by his partner mr. prigg , my quondam friend unless i became his enemy that day because i told him the truth ) who convening with me in that , though not in the true consequence of it , did however so contradict mr. vahan , that he came in to his help ore the shoulders , there were also two more arguments ( besides these in the account ) urg'd by mr. willcock , viz. one ex particulari , the other ex negativo ( as i took occasion to give a hint thereof above ) which he , or whoever was the p●n●man of these passages was ( it seems ) as little willing to own , as his own name , or his handy work it self : sundry more arguings there were , and some arglings also made by some who would have now and then a snatch and away , which me thinks you might have given a transient glance at , at least in a true account , for your utter silence concerning which , you might justly be blamed , yet i blame you not much , when i consider how sensible you might easily be of liableness to more blame for the matters themselves , had you shewn them ( such untempered morter were they ) then can well be conjectured by you , you are now under , for letting them alone altogether . report . another flat falsification and abuse , of me and the world is this : you misreport me , and that in two places , viz. at the bottom of both your sixth and seventh pages , which makes you doubly guilty of that single fiction , as having confessed●hat ●hat circumcision was the seal of the gospel covenant , and that ishmael who was that carnall seed of abraham onely because born in abrahams house had right to it and received it . reply . that this is a true account of what you then said i said , i dare not deny , but do deny it to be a true account of what i said : whether you understood , or understood not my words i know not , but i utter'd not a word to such a purpose ; and were you not men minded to mis-understand , when to understand seems never so little to make against you , i make no doubt but to make your own true account make you eat some of that you have here uttered : that ishmael , who was abrahams carnal seed , even meerly because born in abrahams house had right to circumcision , and received it , as every male so born also did , i confess i confessed , but denied all along that circumcision was a seal ( as to ishmael ) of the gospel-covenant , or that he had it under such a notion as a seal at all ; i said it was a seal to none save to abraham , and that even to him 't was a seal of not any thing at all save of the righteousness of the faith he had , which words ( in the sense i then expounded them ) are not meant of the gospel-covenant , but of that particular personal covenant god made with him concerning his father-hood of the faihful , a peculiar privildege which god gave to him , and to none in all the world besides him ; as for ishmael , yea , and isaac himself they neither of them had it in this sense , as neither had they that covenant , or promise of a father-hood which it was a seal of ; though even ishmael himself , and the lowest males in abrahams house were all to be circumcised upon this account only , if if there had been no other , as he was commanded to circumcise all his males . as to a fuller account of my grounds for this opinion , i shall suspend it till i take my other account of these passages in yours , and take notice only here first of your sacred sophistication , in giving that out for granted which was so abundantly denied , secondly , that close contradiction you here give , not onely to the truth but your selves also , for you give out in the next page but one before , that i denied circumcision to be a seal of the righteousness of faith , ( which in your own sense is as much as of the gospel-covenant ) to any of abrahams posterity , and that i multipli'd words in proof of the contrary , and yet here in relation to that very relation of your own , in the weak wilfulness of your memories , you give out that i had confessed circumcision to be ( even to ishmael ) the seal of the gospel-covenant , that is , with you still , of the righteousness of faith ; thus for your own ends fathering your own false-tenet upon me , ye have not lost all by the shift , for you have fastn'd the fault of sorgery upon your selves ; and this puts me in mind of another of your mis-reports , which because t is so suitable to this i 'le give you some little sense of it here , though i find it farre off hence in your review p. . l. . . where looking , or rather licking over all your arguments again , as somewhat rude and deform'd in their first delivery , and among the rest , this from circumcision of infants to their baptism , you positively affirm thus , that the adversaries confess baptism to be the seal of the gospel-covenant ; whereas , if by adversaries you mean your friend my self , among others , besides what else shall elsewhere be produced in proof of my dissent from you in this point , your selves can bear me witness , or ( if you will not ) a thousand others will , that on the very day of disputation , when the clergy-man of kenington stiled baptism an initial seal , i deni'd it to be a seal at all , and am sure it would have found you all more work , then you are aware of , to have made good that un-gospel like expression of it , though i grant it to be a sign of the gospel-covenant . report . another as flat a falsi●y as ever fell from the mouths or pens of men , who pretend to truth , is that clause which lies in the last line of the seventh page , and first line of the eighth , wherein consider it with the words before , you say i confessed that the spiritual seed of abraham and their children , had under the gospel as good right to the seal thereof , which is baptism , as ishmael who was that carnal seed of abraham , had right to the seal of the gospel-covenant , circumcision . reply . whereas , besides my constant denial of circumcision to be a seal to any but abraham ( as i said immediately above , and as your selves testifie of me ) and besides my denial of baptism to be a seal at all , i either did deny the children of the spiritual seed , i. e. of believers to have right to baptism , or else to what purpose did you oppose me ? for this was the very question between u● ; which as you affirm'd so i from the beginning to the end of the disputation all along most inalterably deny'd . indeed i confessed ore and ore again , that abrahams spiritual seed , i. e. believers have right to baptism , but that the natural seed of this spiritual seed of abraham , are abrahams spiritual seed ( as so born ) or that believers children ( qu● tales ) are semen fidei , as well as their parents , is a most silly saying of your own , page . but that which all the day long i most strenuously stood against , much more that they were the subject of baptism , yet you say here in the preter-plu-perfect tense , that i had confessed their right to baptism , as good as ishmaels to circumcision , which me thinks ( if i had done so ) would have been exprest some where or other in the foregoing part of your true account , or else it is not so true as 't would be taken for ; but sith it is not to be found that i confest such a thing in all your relation of the most materiall things that past , among which this ( had it been confest as you here say ) had been the most materiall of all , for it had been the full giving you the cause , and saving you the labor of more disputing ) we 'l take it for granted ( if you please ) rather then charge your true relation of the most materiall things , as not relating the most materiall of all , that this your testimony of my confession of this matter , is most prodigiously false and abusive : sirs , i wonder you are not ashamed so palpably to speak contrary to what you have here recorded : i know not well what you mean by so many foul mis-reports , unless as a certain great benefactor to the romish religion , perceiving it unable to stand by the scriptures , bestowed a legend of lyes towards its support , which is call'd legenda aurea , so you supposing your infant-baptism uncapable to be maintain'd any longer by principles of truth and reason , have thereupon been so bountiful to the cause , as to give in this golden-leaden-legend . another sorry tale , and strange story you tell is not of me , but of one of my side ( as you are pleased to speak ) and this ( me thinks ) if i be not mistaken , with a kind of emphasis of the featlean strain , as if it were some presumption for a russet rabby , or secular artizan to climb so high , and flutter , and sile so neer the pulpits , and pompous belconies of the priests , and as if he were a man sacerdotalis ambitionis , loving the uppermost room , and chief place in the synagogue , more to be taken notice of himself , then that the truth should be taken notice of by the people , in which things if you muse as you use , yet know sirs that we have no such custome , nor the churches of god , of whom you say thus . report . that having plac'd himself on the highest of the pulpit stairs , to be seen of all and craved the liberty granted by the propositions to ask questions , and receive satisfaction , he profest himself a stranger , and to come thither by accident , though both afterwards appeared contrary . reply . though both will yet appear to be contrary to what you would have them appear to be if you could tell how , viz. a couple of untruths , for verily he was a stranger , and so i then told mr. prigg , who askt me of him , that had not been long in the countrey , and was unknown both by face and name , not to my self and some others , yet however to most of that auditory , in which i believe not one of many could say who , or whence he was ; as to his coming thither by accident , so he did too , i. e. unappointed and unsent for , in which sense i 'm sure some of you came not by accident , but as specially bespoke in the name of a great patron of your party , both to be there , and undertake the business , and appointed , if not primarily , yet secondarily , or upon their refusal , for whom some too confidently undertook they should undertake it , who yet say of your selves page . you were not the men appointed to undertake it ; if by accident you mean thus , as well you may , for a man may come by accident enough to a place though he doth not drop out o th' clouds , or slide down thither from the moon , that worthy friend and beloved brother , under which name i the rather own him here , because i had a letter from a prime one of your party that speaks somewhat scoffingly of that compellation , and besides though with dr. featly , and his faction he is one of the clergy of laicks , and an apron levite , yet as his name is temple-man , so i take him to be a better church-man then many a one , who for not troubling his people with too much truth goes under the denomination of a good one ; this man i dare say as far as he said he came by accident so farre he came by accident as he said , and this proves your hearsay , for its like so you had what you here say , to be heresie if an erring from the truth may , as i know not why not , be so stiled in civill matters , as well as spirituall : and this conducts me to another figment wherein you father as false a thing upon my self , as any of those you seigned of me before , which is at the bottom of that discourse , which you record as passing between your selves and him , concerning justification of dying infants , whether it be by faith or without it , in which discourse , though the folly of your opinion in that point , and truth of his , which is also mine , namely , that dying infants are justified without faith , i shall shew in due time and place , yet i cannot but take notice by the way , before i speak of that which more concerns my self , of some legerdemain and illogicall dealings of yours with him . report . reporting him asserting thus , viz that there may be justification which is not by faith , you report your selves replying thus , page , that it is the grossest piece of popery to hold justification by works , and not by faith onely , and the greatest controversie between them and protestants . reply . what shameful sophistry have you shewn here in foisting in a foolish phrase and term that was neither used , nor touched on by him in any of his fore-going speeches , nor yet in that which your reply most immediately relates to , viz. iustification by works ; whereas you know well enough even as well as he , and i , and the rest that were there ( for your wits could not be so far gone a wool-gathering as to need hellebor here ) that he neither spake nor meant of iustification by works , whether without faith or with it , but of the iustification of infants without either faith or works , neither of which , as your selves confess , they are in infancy capable to act , although you say , but if a man will not believe you he may chuse for there 's neither scripture , sense , nor reason for it , they have the habit ; this , i say again , you know to be the sence of such as you call anabaptists , witness your selves in two places , viz. p. . where you give account of our opinion thus , viz , that way of the presentment of the righteousness of christ without faith is a figment of the anabaptists , also p. . thus , the adversaries are put to their shifts to find out a new way for the salvation of infants dying in their minority viz. the presentment of the satisfaction of christ without faith : in both which places you give the world to understand , that you know our opinion to be that infants are justified by neither works , nor faith , which is a work , but , if at all , by that which your selves hold is the material cause of the justification of men that act faith , and of whom , they being capable to act faith , it is required as instrumentall , viz. the righteousness of christ : secondly , you know that this opinion is farther off , and more flatly contradictory to that popery , that holds iustification by works then yours can possibly be found to be , for the very iesuits may have some colour for saying that you say the same with them whilst their tenet is justification by works , yours by faith , which say they , and truely too , is a work , theirs by faith , and works concurrent , yours by faith that hath works concomitant , and necessarily consequent thereunto : between which two doctrines , ( neither of which need be so much condemned each by other ( for ought i find ) as they are ( provided that all merit on our part be cashiered ( for there rome errs besides us all ) for you will find them both true in the end , viz. that both are instrumentally subservient , and not either of them alone to the justification of ( not infants but ) men , and women of whom both as well as one are required in order unto life ) be●ween which two , i say , there 's not so vast a difference as you deem there is , much less so great as is between these , viz. iustification by works and faith both , which is that of the papists , and iustification without either faith or works , which is that of ours , when we speak of justification with reference to infants only , for between these there 's not the least colour of coincidence , yet this was that justification that inquirer spake of , viz. of infants by christ without faith , or any other work either , which you know is no part of popery , yet first you reply besides the business , which he spake to , and define , it gross popery to hold justification by works , as if he had held it , yea secondly which is worse , and down-rightly injurious , you are not ashamed to tell-tale him to the world in the words below that he fell into this popery , and that for asserting of a iustification of infants , so farr as they need any , neither by faith nor works , but christ without either , so much as instrumentall on their part , then which you see nothing more fully contradicts it : if ye were blind indeed you had not sin'd so much in this , but sure you cannot but see how you shuffle , therefore without repentance your sin remaineth . another thing i take notice of by the way as i travel toward that fiction i mention above , as referring to my self , is this . report . that when the quere was put to you by the inquirer ( as you call him ) what need infants have of being justifyed at all since they have no original sin ( which whether it were put for satisfaction in the thing , or meerly to hear how readily you would resolve it i cannot say ) you bring in one of the ministers in the name of the rest crying out , as before of popery , so now of pelagianism , and that he had not heard so much heresie in so few words , that the inquirer should take heed how he vented himself in publique hereafter , for it became him to suspect himself least god had given him over to the spirit of error , and to another that out of the body of the congregation replyed , that that way which you the ministers called heresie so wershipt they god : you : go on still in the old tone thus , that you were sorry to hear him profess himself a papist and a pelagian in saying he worshipt god that way , and that you appealed to me , praying me to declare my mind concerning these things , whether they were heresie or no , which you charged the inquirer with . reply . but not a word all this while was uttered either to prove the things to be as you call them , or towards the satisfaction of the auditory , or inquirer himself in the question : sirs , is not this the clutter you commonly keep ? is not this the clergies constant custome of confuting , and their wonted way of with-holding men from all audience of what ever comes cross to your conceits when on the sudden you have not what to say against it , viz. to break out into hydeous out-cries of heresie , schism , a spirit of error , an anabaptist , an arminian , an antinomian , a papist , a iesuit , popery , pelagianism , socianism , arminianism , and such like ? when happily not five of fifty among you ever read pelagius , faustus socinus , or arminius so as to know what they hold , and why , any more then by tradition one from another : mistake me not , for i am now neither justifying , nor condemning these men , with whom , they being dead , i have no great matter to do , nor you neither , but that you love to find your selves more business then you need , for my part my business lieth mainly in the word , which is the rule , and being only attended to may ( for ought i know ) sooner set us to rights then either austin , or pelagius , the remonstrants , or arminius : for regula est mensura sui et obliqui , but i here take notice of , and take occasion to condemn the popish practise of most priests in dam●ing down for heresie in gross what they neither disprove , not prove to be heresie when called to 't ; by their own calling it so before the people . report . you relate upon your praying me to declare my mind concerning those things , whither they were heresie or no , which you the ministers charged the inquirer with , that i said i knew that what ere he said , yet he did not hold those things , and that your reply was that the inquirer was a stranger , and th●rfore you wondered his mind should be so well known to me , that whatever his opinion was , the question being whether his saying that one may be justified without faith , and that children are not born in originall sin were heresie or no ? you desired me to answer positively to that but received no answer . reply . as to this politick piece of your report , wherein i perceive how fallaciously you represent me as rendering the inquirer as to my knowledge , speaking contrary to his own mind , i have many things to say , and it matters not much which i be-begin with first . first , me thinks i see ( as you have set things down , a certain sophism of amphiboly ly lurking iustar anguis in herbâ , in these words [ those things ] as you express them the second time in this parcel ; by reason of which if they be not understood by the reader in a right sence , i am set forth by you as guilty of a double crime , from censure of which i see a call to clear my self , and my friend , whom you strive to stain together with in that case , that truth may suffer dammage by us in nothing : for if by [ those things ] be meant in that second place those two opinions of iustification of infants without faith , and their not having original sin , which were indeed the things that he said , then i am falsly reported ( not to say fowly belied ) by you in that passage , wherein you relate me saying thus , viz. that i knew that , whatsoever the inquirer had said , ye● he did not hold those things , and am made also to speak falsly against my conscience ( as my conscience tells me not that i did in all that day ) for verily , as great a stranger as that inquirer was to your selves , and the major part then present , yet he was not such a stranger ( saving all your wonder ) to my self , but that his mind was so well known to me in that , that i knew he held those things , viz. that infants have all the justification they have need of without faith , and have no originall sin , for i hold them my self , in what sence , since you ask me , you shall see by and by , and if i should have said thus , viz. that i knew , what e're he said , ye● he did not hold those things , i should have been both a b●lyar of that my friend , and also as very a lyar as your selves , sirs , would herein fain make me seem to be , but i was both well a ware what he held , and confident that he did not say those things , and not hold them ; but if by those things in that place be understood not those two opinions , but those things which the minister charg●d the inquirer with , viz. heresie , popery , the tenet of justification of infants by works , which were those things the ministers so cried out upon him for , in which sence it is in my speech to be understood , then t is no other then the plain truth , which i spake , and to give you all the advantage that is possible to have by them , i here say it again , that i knew that whatsoever was then said by that our brother , yet he held not those things , i. e. that heresie and popery you then falsly accused him of . and now sith you complain that you received no answer when you desired me to answer positively to that question whether infants are justified without faith , and have any originall sin , yea or no , and whether the things , as we hold them in contradistinction to your selves , be heresie yea or no , as you call them ; i must complain of your selves as the sole persons then in fault that you received not as full an answer as you desired , for i appeal not only to the whole people but to the same page of your own p●pers also , wherein , in the very next line but one or two below this , in which you charge me , with the fault of giving you no answer , your own selves are witnesses to me that i offered to answer you to all exceptions you had against us in an entire exercise , which if you had heard , and not lik't you should have had libertie enough to have replied to as long as you pleased , but your selves only opposed it with all your might : but to wave any further recrimination as concerning that at present , and that you may have no occasion in future to feig● , as if we feared to answer you so positively whether those things , viz. infants iustification without faith , and their freedome from that , which , not so much in scripture language , as by an epithite of mens own coining is called originall sin , be heresie or no , i answer no : as to the first though , iustification of infants by works is the heresie of a romish clergy , whether by works we mean the work of faith ioh. . . or any other , yet iustification of infants without that work of faith or any other work , either of their parents or their own , is the truth as it is in iesus , and such sound doctrine as , notwithstanding your outcries of gross popery , and i know not what upon it , you will never with right reason refute while you breath : as for the other of those things , viz. infants not having originall sin , two questions may be askt concerning this , viz. whether they have it ? secondly , whether they ever had it if you ask whether they ever had any ? i answer , that , as to hold dying infants to be damned unless they believe , which is your doctrine , is as to the poor little ones at least that cannot believe somewhat too damnable a heresie , so to say that infants never had the sin of adam so much as imputed to them ( how farr forth it may possibly be to a person , in whom yet is no inherent corruption , is seen in christ , who had the imputation of sin to him though none in him ) is for ought i have ever found , yet to the contrarie nor a truth : but if your quere be whether infants have any guilt as from adams sin abiding on them after birth ? i reply , that as in order of nature infants must stand guilty by the first adams sin , before they can be said to be justified by the righteousness of the second , so in order of time i believe them universally to be no sooner guilty , as from adam , then clear'd by christ , which tenet , he that tryes it , will find it ( i perswade my self ) so farre from meriting to be cried out on for heresie , ( as it is at random by the clergy ) that it rather comes as nigh to truth , as pence to a groat : but such a bug-bear makes the priest , of what ere suits not with his wonted imagination , that almost all is damnable that differs from him , and what ere he meets out of the kings high-way , or sees sectarizing from the common rode of his own cloudy conception , and clericall , cassicall , convocationall , canonicall constitution , he draws at it presently , as a thief that comes to rob him , commits it to prison , and condemns it all to be hang'd for heresie before he hears it . report . you relate that after that none did propound any more questions . reply . as if all men had been so astonished at your understanding and answers , as they were at christs , that none durst open their mouthes before you any more that day ; yet some would with the help of christ have ventured to have told the truth in your presence , but ( to your praise be it spoken ) as you speak below of your selves , you would not let them . report . so ( say you ) the congregation was again dismist . reply . an argument of your itching after an end , and being well nigh betwatled to be gone , if the people had not been more forward to quere after truth , then the priest was willing to answer , for all his liberty granted in the seventh article , and his pretended forwardness to resolve page . where disswading men from going to seducers , you advise them ( as from god ) to ask the priest : and if others had not been more free to both , then the preachers were either to preach or hear . as for what follows , 't is not so much a model of mis-reports , and mis-representations ( as thus farre of your account is , for the most part ) as of true reports and representations of some few more of the ministers mis-apprehensions , mis-affections and mis-actions , under a colour of acting for the truth . report . you say that your respondent hindred their departure by making an unseasonable motion , viz. that they would hear him preach . reply . emphatically even to a scoff , that they would hear him preach , aliàs sirs , give account in an intire discourse , and this too after his offer to hear any of you first if you would , but you would not , of what he held , and why ; which was the very business he profest to come thither for , more then to dispute , aliâs to shew upon what grounds he invaded the practise of the church of england , scotland , rome , &c. in her infant sprinkling , which say you ( in words ) in the fifth article he ought to have done , but here in your deeds and denial of it , that he ought not : do you think that all ( save such as have eyes and see not ) discern not your dawbing , your double-dealing , and your egypt-like requiring men to make brick allowing no straw , dela●ing that 't is our duty to shew our grounds , yet prohibiting our discharge of it , pressing people to prove all things , yet not abiding they should hear all th●ngs , tes●ing your respondent that in reason he should have been opponent , yet yielding him no opportunity on that day to urge so much as one argument , though he offere'd it , much less yielding to be responsible to him on the next ; magnifying preaching as much as any , yet withstanding it more then all , and making it an unseasonable motion almost at any time , ( save when time comes by course ) to make mention of it ; as if any time were unseasonable for that which is strictly to be attended at all times by christs ministers , both in season , and out of season also tim. . , . report . this required some time to debate . reply . as well it might , being a matter of weighty concernment on both hands , viz. of consequence too advantagious to truth , as well as dangerous to your falshoods ; besides , the more time was taken up in debating against it , so much the less time , if it fortuned to be cast that way , that it must be done , would be left to do it in . report . the ministers opposing it . reply . and lying in the manger , having no mind to hear themselves , nor yet that those should who had a mind to it , having the key of knowledge , the keys and power of that place , yet neither abiding there , nor abiding that others should abide there to so precious a purpose ; which is so much to their commendation , that men must needs see them to be not like christs ministers , for if they had , they would have rejoiced in christs being preached , whether in pretence , or in truth , of envy or good will , well knowing all should have tended to the furtherance of the gospel , phil. . , , , ob. and if they object that preaching of error will hinder it . ans. i say that publishing whether of error or truth , gives that advantage of trying all things , which as it is that duty men cannot do , unless they hear all , so that which they might not do by any means in ages above , when the arch-hereticks the pope , and the priest-hood stopt the mouths of all hereticks , save their own : besides , it puts people into a fairer capacity of right cariage towards all things , viz. if they appear truth ( though cri'd out on as error ) of imbracing them , if error indeed ( as much of the priestly doctrine is under a name of truth ) of declining it , and all this upon none of that implicit , but that explicit faith , which onely becomes him that will be a christian , not in name onely , but in very deed : and all this the ministers know as well as i , page . affirming preaching to be a better way to oppose the approach of heresies , then that of disputing ; wherupon , though they stirre up one another to oppose in preaching the growth , and propagation of what they call anabaptism , to prevent peoples departure to the truth , yet are they ( and i cannot blame them , they knowing no better way , and seeing how fast their old friends fall from them , by the late light that is risen up from under their dark night of traditions ) as carefull to keep all from their pulpits , save such as sing to the same tune with themselves , though we never speak , but we give them leave , which is more then they give us in the like case , to take their exceptions . report . saying , that the end of their meeting was to dispute . reply . which if it were , yet the foolishness of preaching might possibly have done the disputer more good then his dispute ; besides , the end of my coming was to give account of the way you call heresie wherein we worship , and why i call yours heresie , and that truth : and sith i freely granted the ministers their end , 't was but unreasonable in them ▪ ( their own turn being once serv'd ) to frustrate mine . report . that the disputation was now determined . reply . by its own opponent , and therefore that exercise being ( as fully as fouly ) ended 't was ( i told you ) the more lawful , fair , fit , and seasonable to begin another . report . that it was neer of the clock . reply . yet not mid-night , much less break of day , as 't was when paul continued preaching , and discoursing at a place , where he knew not whether he should ever preach again , act. . . . report . that the dispute had lasted above six hours . reply . whether there was so much as six hours dispute or no i doubt , however , i 'le not cal you to account for this , but excuse you , for sith you counted every hour seven till you were gone , it might well seem to you no less then . yet sirs give me leave , was there indeed six hours , and more past all in disputation ? i pray sirs , what 's become of the odd five and a half ? did you press them to death i th' press , or lose them i th' ashes , whetein you had a design to have smothered it all ? for as clean as you would seem to have rak't it out , here 's no more return'd to give account of it self then this small parcell , which is scarce the tenth : see therefore that the rest be forth coming , for here is but meer pigmee semi-demi doings : and besides gentlemen , me thinks your tale hangs not handsomely together with the thing told , for , if there were six hours work indeed , how is it you repeat no more ? or if there were no more then this half an hours reading , how is it you give so large an account of it here ? or must we conceive you to have two true accounts , one in this clause , which stories the length of the dispute to be six hours , the other in your book it self , which disputes ore all that long dispute again before the world , that it might have the true cognizance of it , in little more then the sixth part of one ? of which two true acounts ( for so you would have us account them to be both ) if the one be a true account then for certain ( sith they come not neer one another , by five hours , and an half ) the other is a false true one , or a true false one which you please , for howbeit , a man may of a six hours discourse say in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in less then six minits that it was six hours long , and that there were many arguments , and answers in it , yet if he take on him to relate ore the discourse it self , and the arguments and answers themselves , and account ( as you pretend to do ) pro toto integrali , at least for the most materiall parts thereof , he must either afford it more then six times six minits space to play in , and that 's more then you have allow'd your account , or else 't was a long nothing indeed . some creepholes i see you make for your selves , whereat to get out from the shame of that disproportion between your words here , which are s●squi-pedalia , shewing the work to be six hours long , and the work it self , which is like a span ; for you tell us in your preface , t is but a short relation you pretend to ; yet know sirs that too little is too little in all conscience : neither can you lick your selves whole of all absurdity ; whilst in two seveveral sententious descriptions you speak of no less then six hours , so hoysing up your reader into an expect●aion of something worth looking after , and then shut him off with this skeleton , or short shew of not half the sum , but some of one half , some scraps , and broken bits of the business , whereof the fag-end of all , viz. how the bells began to play their parts against our preaching , when you had done , by the appointment of who knows not whom ? a matter as well worth hearing as much of yours , is left out altogether : so then sirs , here 's two accounts of your dispute , a long-short one , and a short-long one , for t is epitomiz'd well nigh to nothing : sith t is as t is , you might do well , unless you can help 's to that odd remnant of five hours and a half , which is either shrunk away for shame , or else snipt off from the whole piece , whilst you were cutting out of it this short-close-coat wherewith to cover your nakedness , to summon it back to the press , and thence sign it out again for a true counterfeit : but supposing you 'l save your selves so much labor , as to take shame to your selves for your demi-dealings , i have here done it to your hands , to save your reader the labor of being cozen'd . report . and many ( say you ) were wearied . reply . and will be more , as well as more then your selves will be before this disputation and the effects thereof have done working in their hearts that heard it , or that conjunction which was iuly th . which began its operation most to'th'purpose , when you prest it out , wil cease to be ominous , and of ill influence in the clergies climate . report . and many had far to go . reply . and some so farre that night , as was pretended , that in order there unto i hear they took horse the next day in the afternoon . report . one of the congregation reply'd , say you , that he hoped you the ministers would not hinder the preaching of the word , or call any time unseasonable for that , the ministers answered , that they magnified preaching as much as any , yet must needs tell them the apostle makes it inferior to charity , and that when charity was in danger to be violated by it , it were but christian prudence to omit it . reply . antichristian priestly-popely - pollicy ( if ye will ) but neither christian prudence , nor pastor-like pitty , nor peter-like piety , nor pauls charge to timothy tim. . . . which was to preach the word , and be instant in season and out too , to reprove , rebuke , exhort , &c. with all long suffering and doctrine . ob. but some there would have been griev'd at it , in which case better to have omitted it in charity , then hazzard hatreds by performance . a●sw . some there ( its like ) would not have indur'd it , yet is that no plea whereupon to omit it , for then we must preach no more gospel to the world , which sets two against three , and three against two , and occasions ( not causes ) by means of mens lusts opposing it , more sword then peace at present , luke . , , . yea , the time will come ( and now is ) when men , ( yea ministers ) will not indure sound doctrine , but after their own lusts , heap to themselves teachers , ( and what heaps upon heaps of false teachers are there in all christendom ? for the clergy have made themselves many as the locusts , many more then to every parish one , tickling men up still with an omnia benè in a bad condition , even when for their sakes isa. . omnia penè penitus peritura sunt ) and will turn away their ears from the truth , and be turned unto fables of mens feigning , but watch thou in all things , indure afflictions , do the work of an evangelist , fulfill thy ministry , tim. . , , . report . that the congregation consisted of two sorts of men and women , whose opinions were different , that there was a danger of a breach between them , that as they came together , and had behav'd themselves quietly all the time , so they might be permitted to depart , that the mischie●s which follow division , are easier prevented then heal'd , &c. reply . great indeed are the mischiefs that follow divisions , they are more easily prevented then heal'd , but as sure as the lord lives , and his word hath any truth in 't the divisions of these dayes , the mischiefs of which ( and that 's the best on t ' ) will light most upon the tripple tower of bbbabel , even the tripple cccrown and kingdome of the ccclergy , out of whose clutches god is going to redeem his captive clergy , the height of which tower he will bring down to the earth , even to the dust , these divisions ( i say ) will neither be prevented nor healed , notwithstanding all indeavours to that purpose , till that be fully accomplisht , which this division of languages truly tends to in the councels of god , viz. the utter shattering and disabling of these great babel-builders , so that their ambitious projects shall come to a perpetual end ; till then , breach upon breach cannot be avoided : while the earth was , as in old time of priestly pomp it was , of one language , and of one speech all saying , nemine contradicente , as the pope said , all worshipping as the priest-hood appointed , all believing as the church believed , there was so much charity to the churches peace , that all truth was choakt under the name of schism for the sake on 't ; the builders , by whom the corner-stone is still refused , saying one to another , go to , let us build us a city , and a tower , whose top may reach to heaven , let us make us a name , and nothing was restrained from them , which they imagined to do by advantage of this their unity and uniformity of speech , and religion ; but now god is coming down to view the great tower , this pompous kingdom of priests ; and finding it swell up to heaven , above the stars of god , over all , on earth at least , that 's called god , he sayes go to , let us go down , and confound their language , that they may not understand one anothers speech● whereupon , as the great city is split in three parts , so each of these will be subdivided more and more , into sectaries of all sorts , so that men understand not now the language of the pope and priest-hood , nor will christs sheep hear the voice of those strangers , by which division of tongues , if that great city cease to reign , and that montanous babell come down , and become a plain before zerubabel , as it must , t is not so devillish as divine a division , which all are not so sorry for as some , whose alas is lamented back again with hallelujah : yea , let the day break more and more , and the shadows flie away , and my beloved be like a ro● or young hart , hasting ore these mountains of b●ther , i. e. division , cant. . . and now as to the peoples being permited to depart , i know none were held there against their wills , besides your selves , yea , both you and they too that would , might have gon in peace , and those that would , might have staid in peace , had you not troubled all with your oppositions : if such as had a mind to stay , had been as peaceably permitted to abide , as you who had such a mind to be out , were peaceably permitted to depart , for any hinderance you had from us , all might have been full as well ( for ought i know ) as now it is . report . next you relate , i not hearkning to the reasons of the ministers , it was at last referred to the minister of the place being there present , and he desired to declare whether he would give way to my preaching , which he refusing to do , upon the reasons before said , one of the congregation began to utter some words tending to a commotion , viz. that he had nothing to do with them , that they would do it without his leave , and the like , whereupon the ministers conjured me , whose interest they observed to be so great in the people , by the bonds of charity , the candor , and sobriety of a christian , and ingenuity of a scholar , that i would dissolve the congregation , that they might part without professed hostility , that there would great disgrace light upon their meeting , besides dangers which they did foresee , if i did not , that if i persevered in my motion , they did protest openly before the congregation against it , and did charge upon me whatsoever inconveniency should follow , so being perswaded , i went out of the church with the ministers , and the congregation followed . reply . i saw not so much as a grain of reason in all you spake , in prevention of so innocent , and in it self inoffensive a purpose as that was , to render a reason of my faith to a people that expected it from me , and were ( as your selves were not ) then and there so willing to hear it : whereupon i neither did nor durst decline the doing of it upon any such account as convicted that by right i ought not to have done it ; nevertheless i must confess when i saw such conjuring , such sensles scar-crows , such reasonles referrings , such rigid refusings , such crooked constructions ready to be made by the ministers of mens words , as commotions , when very parishioners , who pay peter-pence both to the presbyter , and the place , onely pleaded their priviledge to be there , without his leave , such emulous observations of the ministers how great or little my interest was in the people , such desires of me to dissolve the congration , rather then resolve them by an exercise about the truth of baptism , by the bonds of charity , as if they were to bind us from other duty , by the candor and sobriety of a christian , as if this lay chiefly , in forbearing to publish the gospel of gods grace to the sons of men for fear of displeasing , by the ingenuity of a scholar , which makes many a one forget his integrity as a minister , such a sense as profest hostility to them likely to be put upon it by the ministers , if i refused to go out with them , or taried there to do service to god , such fearful foresights of great disgrace likely to light upon their meeting , and dangers of i know not what , unless of the downfal of their way , which the ministers had more then all others , if the auditory were not dismist without a sermon , such hydeous apprehensions as they had , and direful representations as they made to the people of chymaera's , non entities , things that neither were , nor were like to be , and of they knew not what inconveniency would follow , such chargings of all , lastly , upon my self if i offered to preach there to the people , when i saw ( i say ) such horrible affrightments at it , and such abominable deal of do made by ministers against so harmless a motion , as a ministers preaching in one of their publick places , to hundreds that were then ready to hear him , who also would have spoken nothing but the truth , or else have given them all or as many of them as would have staid free liberty to rectifie him if he had not , i was so ashamed to see it , that for very shame i was perswaded to express that love which i truly bear to their persons , though i contest with their corruptions , so farre as in a loving manner to walk out with them , and rather , then offend them further then needs must , to perform that service to the truth without dores , which with their leave might as well have been done within . report . you relate that one of you then spake to me as followeth , that i would seriously consider into what a dangerous error i was fallen . reply . aliàs a dangerous truth , that will danger the undoing of you one way or other , and that whether you imbrace it or no : for if you do , it will spoil you here , and strip you stark naked of much of your earthly excellencies and enjoyments , and expose you to such ridiculosity , as to be owls and fooles among the rest of your cloth , that imbrace it not , for though if you deny your selves , follow christ , and suffer with him here , you shall reign with him hereafter , and yours shall be that kingdom of heaven , yet you will lose your kingdom here on earth : but if you imbrace it not , specially when spoken to your consciences , it will judge you at the last day , and be your condemnation for ever . report . and not onely so , but that i was the cause of the fall of many others . reply . and of the fall of many more may i be if it be the will of god , if they fall no further then from the scribes to the scriptures , but if they fall away from that truth we walk in , after they have known , and own'd it , as t was foretold many should do , and too many accordingly now do , separating themselves from the true congregations of christ , since their separation from the false , sensuall having not the spirit , that fall will be on their own score , and not on mine . report . that i would saddly remember what saint austen saith of arrius , that his pains are multiplyed in hell , as often as any one departs into his heresie . reply . a sadd thing indeed , and seriously to be laid to heart by you , and me , as not onely professors but promotors also to our power of different waies , whereof one only can be the truth , for the danger will ly on their side that hold the heresie , and hold it up , and not at all on the others . report . that i would consider what arguments had been used , and how unsatisfactory my answers were . reply . so i have done o're , and o're again already since you urg'd them , and , upon occasion of your impression of them , am concerned to consider them more closely yet then ever , and having now well-nigh finisht this animadversion of your account 't is the very thing i am to go upon by and by ; and what ere my answers were then , it matters not , if they were too short then for want of time , and liberty from you to utter them , i shall take liberty to speak the more home to your matter now . report . that i would not resist the spirit of god. reply . but i am to try the spirits whether they be of god or no , a thing which you are not yet too much guilty of , unless it be of neglecting it , or else i may resist him unawares : if after-triall , and experience of him , i with stiff neck resist his strivings with me to own the truth he manifests to me , and leads me to , as i know when i was ready to do , even when he began to enlighten me first in that part of christs will he here holds out to your selves , and as they did who stoned stephen in malice , when they could not resist with clearer light the spirit by which he spake to them , it is hazzardable whether i shall have forgiveness or no , in this world or that to come , or you either if this , as god forbid it should , ever prove to be your case . report . that i would remember that though in this unsettled and distracted church i did not fear being called to any account for my doctrines , yet i must appear before the dreadful judgement seat of christ , who is the patron of paedo-baptism , praying god to give me a right understanding , you took your leave and departed . reply . though your church cannot call me to an account at all , if it be a church of christ indeed , i being none of it , the church judging such only as are within her , and not those without , yet i shall be willing to give it to the utmost in the stricktest way wherein your church could , as a church , expect it of me , or bring me to it if i were a member of it , which way is not haling to prison hanging , and burning , the wonted way of your churches dealing with falsly supposed hereticks , and should that be the way i should i trust in god submit to give account in 't rather then deny the truth , but it is demanding a reason of mens different faith , and as they find it unsound admonishing , reproving , and in case of non-amendment rejecting , disowning , but if your church , and its ministery be like each other , i find not your church so forward to call us to this account of our faith , for you her ministery do utterly refuse to accept when we offer it : how often have we been an hundred times more ready to give reasons of our way ; then you church-men whom she trusts are to receive them ? but if we durst not give account to christ for what we do , we durst not give account for it to your selves : assure him to our consciences to be what you here assert him to be , viz. the patron of paedo-baptism , ( but this from mar. . nor act . . nor . cor. . nor from any other portion of his testament , nor from his patronizing paedo-circumcision you cannot , much less can you of paedo-rantism which is your way ) and then we are so sensible of our future appearance before his iudgement seat , and have gain'd so much self denial for his sake , since we practised pisto-baptism , that we shall as readily lay it down i hope as we took it up . report . after the ministers were retired , diverse gentlemen and others , who had been present at the disputation , thanked the ministers , expressed the satisfaction they had received , assuring them that many were confirmed by their means and the resolution of the ministers , who were auditors , was , that they would faithfully in their several congregations , declare their sence of it , and oppose the growth of anabaptism in their respective flocks . reply . here followes the story of what event , and success your meeting had among your selves , and you great friends after you were hous'd , of its powerfull influence upon you ministers , and your maecenasses , when you met together at your randezvous , which was on this wise , you had their gratulatorie expressions of their own satisfactions , and assurances of many ones confirmation by your means , and this reciprocally raised you ministers into joint incouragements , ingagements , and resolutions to declare your sense of this happy efficacy , and acceptation your indeavors had among them , and to stickle more stifly then ever against anabaptism in your respective flocks , where you usually winne all because you plaie with none there but your selves , and that you do with such earnestness and zeal , that for fear men should come to anabaptism , i. e. a second baptism , you stave them off at a distance , and what in you lies forbid them to own a first : thus while they doted on your doo-little disputation , and plaistered it ore with their applause , you in requital agreed to new white-lime , and daub ore their babylonish idol baby-sprinkling with your untempered morter . sirs , i half wonder at one thing , for which ( whether more happ●ly or unhappily it befalls you i wot not ) yet i however rather more pitty then envy you , viz. that who ere carries the thing , yet you still carry the thank , and who e're is at loss in your holy warres against us hereticks , yet your selves take upon you still to be triumphant ; you give the satisfactions , the confirmations , for which you have gratulations from the great ones , as if the good issue of things did run only , and alway on your side , i find it so in all verball accounts , and also in those printed accounts that are extant of your doings , and disputations with them of this way called anabaptism , viz. dr featly's account of his disputation with them in south-wark , and this of your own also with us at ashford , and another of mr baxters with mr tombes at bewdley , pend all as is supposed by the opponents themselves , who whip them if they have not more wit , and less grace then to disgrace themselves too much , whilst they continue clergy-men . and now i name dr. featly , the man whom in the next page you turn us over to for more furniture in this point , i cannot but note by the way how finely you featlifie throughout your whole account , as well as here , as if there were a certain transmigration of dr. featly's spirit into that person that was the inditer of your account : for as most of the arguments are found in ( not to say fetcht and filcht out of ) featly's fardell , so how many things in yours are after the very image of his account , as if one had been the plat-form of the other ? dr. featly pens and prints forth his disputation under the title of a true relation of what passed , and ( how properly i appeal to all men ) so do you : dr. featly saies it was the clamors of the adversaries awakn'd his , or else it had slept securely by him in a whole skin , so say you , the disgraces the adversaries loaded your disputation with rakt it out of those ashes , in which else it was designed to be smothred : dr. featly be-asses us anabaptists , and so do you both us ▪ and your selves too , ( as is shew'd above ) dr. featly makes as if none of that sect ever troubl'd him any more after that , so ye that after your handling of the enquirer , none did propound any more questions , as if you had stopt the mouths of all : dr. featly relates that the dippers were dipt , and plung'd ore head and ears in disputation with him , so you that your respondent was extremely foundred , answer'd nothing in the least measure satisfactory , or that ca●ried any shew of sense or reason to the purpose : dr. featly relates the issue of his , as to himself , to be great thanks , so ye how you were thank'd , and as you from divers gentlemen , so he from the knights , ladies and gentlemen , of which rank few stoop so low , as to the plainness of the gospel , but neither of you from the poor of this world that are rich in faith , and heirs of that kingdome which god hath promised to them that love him , into which few , knights , ladies , and gentlemen ( except more of them repent , believe , and obey the gospel then mostly do ) shall ever enter : thus you flaunt it over the little flock , over this sect which is every where spoken against , as baffled , non plust , worsted by you still : but sirs , we can give loosers leave to talk , you tell of gratulations , satisfactions , confirmations of people in your wayes by your means , but how comes it to pass that there are so many churches ? the true church , i. ● . those you call anabaptists , may say in her heart after her long widow-hood , as isa. . . who hath begotten me these , seeing i have lost my children ? and who hath brought up these ? behold i was left alone , these where have they been ? thy people crumble from thee apace ( o pppriest ) for all thy satisfactions , and are captivated some more to christ , and some more to the devill then ever before , while they served thee : thy divinity , ( o divine ) is as the blood of a dead man , it hath no life in 't , thy common stock , and store of religion , thou hast treasur'd up to thy self out of this author and that , out of harmonies of confessions , councels , &c. grows stale , and begins to stink before the scriptures , in a word gray-hairs are here , and there upon thee , and thou knowst it not . report . and this opposition of anabaptism hath been since done ( say you ) accordingly . reply . and 't were enough to make a man think ( though i say it not ) that 't was done even immediately ; considering what a tom-boyes trick was serv'd us so soon after , whilst we were preaching besides the steeple , upon a tombstone , ( which that it grieve you not , know christ preacht in a ship , on the shore on a mountain , in the synagogues , in houses , even any where where people were willing to stay and hear , and so may his ministers too for ought i know ) for while you were scratching , and clawing one another at your inr , we teaching and convincing each other in the outer court , ( for there was no room for christ in the inner temple , ) we were curst most bitterly with bell , though neither with book nor candle ; yea there a rose ( who knows not whence ? for sure 't was either from you and your party , or you in your party , or you without your party , or ( at least ) your party without you ) such a hot dispute of bim-bom-bell , which put us to such a non-plus that ( least we should perdere in contentione vocem ) we were fain to give over , and be gone , and were utterly routed in the skirmish , tell we could well raylly together in another place . so here 's the upshot of the business of that disputation , of which somewhat more might yet be written , had my business been to give account , and not rather to take account of your account on 't : but this is written , that people may believe your true account , to be a true counterfeit , and believing it , may know the better how to trust you another time . one word more yet to the disputers and scribes of the ashford disputation , or an epilogetical postscript on their apologetical preface . pre. there was never any intent this disputation following should have appeared in publick , &c. post. like enough so sirs , for the first appearance , or deliverie of it self in publique by word of mouth was with so little credit to your cause , that it might very easily be as ashamed to shew its face in print , as the scribes that penn'd it seem'd to be to shew their names ; and doubtless so it would have been , but that it came disguis'd ; and yet even this false face , whereby you have made it shew fairer by farr on one side ( i mean your own ) then at first it did , is so black , so blind , so full of blurres and blemishes , that it cannot chuse , when it comes to review it self the second time , but color red , and blush at its own blindnesses , if it be not brazen . pre. but that like jonas's gourd it should have died as suddenly , as it grew , &c. post. like ionas's gourd indeed ; for ionas-like ( o that you were as like him in his best , as you are too like him in the basest of his behavior ! ) you run away from god o ye priests , and refuse to preach the preaching that he bids you ; whereupon a mighty tempest is upon you , and upon the waters whereon you ride , i. e. the tongues , nations , multitudes , and peoples , so that they are troubled for your sakes ; and upon the earth it self , which is as it were the ship , in the bowells of which you have imbarqued your selves , ever since your fall from heaven thither in the loins of your father abaddon , revel . . . so that it reels to and fro like a drunkard , is moved exceedingly , like to be split in pieces , clean dissolved , utterly devoured with a curse , for your sinns principally , o yee priests , who have trangressed the laws of christ the only lord , and law-giver , changed his ordinances , broken the everlasting covenant : neither will the sea of the whole world cease to roar about you , and be outragious till the lot fall upon you , as it did on ionas , to be cast forth , though the ship-masters row never so hard to have you spared ; nor till the tempestuous waves , on which you seek still to swim aloft , have over-whelm'd you so on every side , that you be fain to cry alas out of the belly of hell . but alas though the ship rock , and is ready to suffer ship-wrack , yet as if they had made a covenant with death , and with hell were at at an agreement , so rockt asleep is ionas , so sluggish are our renegado prophets , that they yet discern not the mystery of the things that are upon them , but are stark sensless of the stirs that are about them , and of the storms which themselves are most concern'd in . and what the gourd was to ionas in his heat , even such is this disputation also to your cause of infant-baptism , viz. as short , as sleight a shelter , a shadow ( for there 's no substance in 't ) under which you have rejoyced a while , and receiv'd some thin refreshment , and defence against the heat of that truth with which you were a while tormented : but god hath prepared a silly worm to smite the gourd , so that though it blossom like a rose , and flourisheth as a chief flower among your followers for a time , yet it will die , even as suddenly as it grew , so that , leaving you to your evensong , to the tune of [ or like the gourd that jonas had ] men will begin to sing mattens ere-long , saying : their rose withers , their blossom blasteth , their flower fades , the morning hasteth . their mourning hasteth . their sun sets , their shadow flies , their gourd consumes , the darling dyes . their sprinkling dyes . pre. the truth is the disgraces that the adversaries in private have loaded it withall , have rak't it out of those ashes , &c. post. for your respondent , whom you mainly mean here , ( witness these words of yours to me , viz. sir , these short collections of the ashford disputation had slept long enough , if your own private letters had not awakned them by a too much sleighting your opponents , and their arguments ) not without a just occasion from a friend of yours presented in a letter called a spade a spade , and represented your doo back again in no worse wise then it deserved , asserting that your pleading of infant-sprinkling from that non-entity of infant-believing was shamefull and childish pedling , and that the miserable rawness and rudeness of some , then and there ingag'd in syllogisticall dispute did ●avor as little of the scholar , as that of the christian ; all which and what more is there related was no other then the truth when i pen'd it , and i find nothing to the contrary yet in your account : howbeit 't was so disgracefull and loadsome , that you disputers immediately became scribes , and posted out a piece of print on a sleeveles errand , i. e. the recovery of your retrograde repute , being afraid ( not more ●hen hurt ) that if this man of war do not ( what is not to be done ) maintain your infant-sprinkling ( which premi haud suprimi potest , the more you tread the more you spread ) your credit may grow so crazy upon 't as to die indeed , as indeed it doth , and that daily , for as zealous as you are to unlade your selves in your romish wayes of disgraces , yet what grace ( unless you have the grace to repent ) in this juncture , wherein the lord is about to fill the earth with the knowledge of himself , and that glorious truth which you have darkned , and to bring shamefull spuing upon all your ghostly glory ? pre. in which it was designed to be smothered , &c. epil . scarce any infant ever past alive ( i think ) under so many murtherous , and smotherous designs as this one poor insant-disputation that was born at ashford : it hath had two or three births or appearances in publick , one at ashford the place where it was first held before many , two at the press whence its forth-held before all , from every of which it should have been with-held , so as never to have appear'd at all to the view of any , if any of those whose own , more then mine , it was could handsomely have smothered , and broke the neck on t . the true father , b who first begate it by venting to a certain gentlewoman , c ( further then he would have done ( as it seems to some since had he thought she would have prov'd with child by his dallying with her ) his pretended desire of some discourse with her seducer , so he was then pleas'd to stile me by anticipation , having neither before nor since so much as said one word toward the shewing of me to be in error , when he saw his offer thrive so fast in the womb of her desires , that there was like to be an issue , i. e. a disputation father'd on him to provide for , would for ought ever i could discern , whether to avoid the shame on 't , or why else i know not , have smothered the very embryon in the womb : but sith that could not be done very cleanly it being nois'd that there was a conception , he was minded i suppose , to have it smother of itself at the birth , for want of help to bring it forth , for he would have nought to do with it himself when the hour came , but threw it as iudas did his busines among the priests with [ see ye to it ] not vouch-safing so much as to see it himselfe or to send in so much as one rag , or ragged argument to hide its shame withall in the day of its nativity , wherein notwithstanding all the help and hand it had from such of you as were sent for far and neer to the labor , who i dare say did the best for it you could , it was not so well ordered but that it pittied many a ones heart to see how wretched it was , and poor , and miserably blind , and naked . howbeit i say to give you your due , you had bowels toward it far beyond him , who was neerer kin to it then your selves , for whereas he should have bin by right at all the pains and charges too that day , as being most concern'd in the business of it , yet he withdrew himself from both ; but you , who , as you say were not the men appointed for the disputa●ion , drew neer and undertook it , and were at such pains about it , that how far forth you gnawd your tongues for pain i cannot say , but i may safely say you blasp●emed the god of heaven both then and since , so farre forth as to call his truth heresie is to blaspheme him , because of your pains and your sores , not do i hear that you yet repent of your deeds : in a word , though little to th' purpose , yet your cares concerning this infant-disputation were very great , when his , whose it was , were none at all save how to keep far enough from it , that it might be strangled before ever it came to light . thus it outliv'd one or two smothers , to which it was designed by its first father , viz. both in and coming out of the womb , much land therefore which you love more then a little , to you the kind uncles for it , who so seasonably interposing your selves , swadled it up as fairly as you could in such foul shifts as you had then about you in such wise at least as to save the life on 't , or else it had surely miscarried , and come well nigh to nothing , before it was well any thing at all : now in small process of time , perceiving perhaps that you had over-charged your selves unawares in adopting this ashford-disputation , the fruit of another mans loins , into your own future tuition , by taking the patronage thereof upon you , so publiquely as you had done that day before many people ; and possibly not more asham'd of its former poor appearance , then afraid that a further appearance of it in publique might put you to more charge and shame , even you the foster fathers also , who had been so kind as to keep it from killing , and to perform the mid-wivery und nursery thereof before , had a design now to smother it your selves , in order whereunto you had buried it alive it seems , and rak'● it up in the ashes of oblivion , that it might live no longer in mens minds , but rather return dust to dust , ashes to ashes as it was , hoping the sepulchre of your silence was so sure , that the ghost would never walk about to the cost , shame , and affrightment of its guilty guardians any more . but all this avails not yet , the baby-disputation was not fully smothered for all that ; for people of all sorts were in a kind of hue-and cry after it , adversaries talkt how ill you handled it , friends were importunate to see a copy of its countenance , so that there 's no remedy , but it must be rak't out of those ashes , in which it was then designed to be smothered , and appear again in publique at the press , and so by chance it came to escape a third smother , by which else in your intent it should have perisht both out of mind , and sight : per varios casus per tot discrim●na rerum hath this poor infant-disputation had the fortune to escape those many smothers , which in the fearful wrath of its own parents , that begat and brought it out , it was ore and ore designed to , so that it rubs out still , and remains in rerum naturâ , in vivis characteribus to this very day . pre. and given life to it , &c. post. and g●ven death to it you might more truly have said , for verily under a colour of setting it free from the old intended smother you have subtily smother'd it ore a new ( as it were ) in another : yea , your very impression is a very suppression of it rather then otherwise , for you have prest it almost to nothing in the press , and made such a thin-gut thing of it , that howbeit it stands bulk't out with an appendix , and other bumbles , yet it looks no more like the disputation it once was ( in respect of the respondents answers , which you have rob'd it of , as well as of your own weakest arguments ) then the seven lean kine like the fat : you would have sneap't it all out of sight if you could , but necessity urging to set forth somewhat , and shame forbidding the sight of all things as they were , after some picking and stealing , and mincing and making , &c. such relikes of your rakings as you saw most fit for your turns you trick't together on a bundle , threw them into the press , and so there came out this monstrum , horrendum , informe , ingens , cui lumen ademptum . nevertheless it lighted on a friend at last , that was well acquainted with it from the beginning , who seeing it so lame , so decrepit , so mis-figured , recovered it out of those sophistical glosses , wherein it was designed to have been smothered in your account , and gave life to it indeed , onely to vindicate the truth of it from your mis-reports . pre. onely to vindicate its innocency from their injuries , &c. post. it s innocency is a matter which it was never too much guilty of in one sense , though it had enough of it in another , for howbeit ( deo prohibente ) it neitheir could , nor did ever do any , yet it wanted no will to have done a mischief to the truth , and in that respect ( as very an innocent as it was ) most honest men do hold it guilty . pre. besides the importunities of many friends desiring copies of it , not without much reluctancy for a good while , prov'd the mid-wives to this hasty birth , &c. post. this hasty birth : me thinks indeed it looks like some untimely issue , that brake forth in h●st into the world , as one born out of due time , order and proportion ; that slipt out at the rash request of some few friends , whilst those whose work it was , and care it should have been to have look't better to it were asleep , and therefore who ere were the mid-wives may i be one of the gossips i shall freely allow it among others , that are answerable to its nature , this name of hasty birth , and had you signed it in the forehead with capital letters , instead of a true account , by the name of this hasty birth , you had done the world more right by th' half then now you have , for then your frontispice had been at least a true account of your book , though your book no true account of the disputation . canis festinans caecos parit catulos , hasty bearers seldome bring forth other then such blind businesses as this , which may not be seen for shame without much reluctancy , nor when they must , without much apology . this hast sirs , makes you make wast in your papers , as well as wast sometimes in your practises , as saul , who in hast made havock of the church : you came in hast to the disputation , and that made you leave innumerable arguments behind you , for there might be innummerable arguments brought but the hast of the disputation for●ad the ministers to be so throwly provided , &c. say you p. , . you ran in hast to give account on 't , and for hast left it all out but a little . this hasty birth of yours was born about six moneths after it was in semine at the disputation , had you forborn three moneths longer , and spent more time in recalling , raking , reviewing , there had not been such a miscarriage , your birth would have had some substance more then now it hath , some more suitableness to sense and reason , you would have accounted for some answers , as well as but some arguments , and sav'd your selves that acknowledgement , which upon the after sight of your hast , defect , and oversight you are fain to make in most parts of this epistle , but insipientis est dicere non putâram , sapientis discere per non putâram , though it be no wise mans part to fall unawares in to folly , yet is it a wise mans part to learn wisdome by his own folly , and so i hope you will shew your selves wisemen at least , viz. in learning by the more hast then good speed of this hasty birth festinare lentè for the time to come , and never to bring forth so hastily any more . pre. it had nothing to boast of but the sober and silent demeanour of the congregation while it lasted , it being a thing scarce credible , that so many ( some have guessed them about ) and so qualified , should attend with so much devotion without any interruption by the space of six hours , &c. post. t is a thing scarce credible indeed , to him that hath either seen or heard how much commotion the testimony of the true baptism hath been elsewhere entertained , and attended with , that it should here among so many , and those so qualifyed too , i. e. with great prejudice against it as heresie , and that so long too be attended with so much devotion : and therefore it hath much more to boast of , then such disputations as have been held in some parts of england , which i am loath to shame so as to name , even of old england it self in this juncture of its growing new , but specially of new-england , that is now growing old again apace ( as old england did in the bishops times ) in order i hope to its growing newer then ever , where ( horesco referens i tremble to relate it ) after many incivilities , and much barbarous behavior not long since used toward them , this was added above all that three witnesses to this truth were shut up in prison , and not only so , but ( according to m ▪ cottons bloody tenet of persecution for conscience , which even he himself abhorred in the bishops ) meerly for no other fault then that of the apostles at phillippi , act. . instead of a disputation with them which was pretended to be desired , but never intended to be performed by the anti-baptists , the baptists had a dispensation granted them by the court at boston , either to pay one five , one twenty , another thirty pound , or to be well whipt , which they pleased , upon refusing of which fine to be paid , or by himself , or by others for him , who would as well have set him free at their own charge ( if he had accepted it ) as they did the others , one of the three submitting patiently to their cruelty in order to his being restored in the spirit of meekness ( aliês romish mercilessness towards that romish childishness of infant rantism ) received thirty stripes at the whipping post in such wise as may well make the ears of every on that hears it to tingle , and the hearts of christs disciples to stand amazed , and bleed within them that ever such a thing should be heard out of new-england , as is to be seen at large in a book lately extant , stiled ill news from new england : lord where shall thy servants live at peace salvâ conscientià , if thou lend them not a full liberty to declare against tythes , and all other truth-voiding traditions in old england , when they are so bloodily handled in new ? where ( father forgive them ) they know not what they do . nevertheless had the demeanour of you the priests at ashford been as sober and silent as that of the people ( as it seldome is when a classis of you get together , much less was it at ashford , where you grew into a chaos of conference and a confused croud of disputation ) it had had much more to boast of then it hath . pre. the scandals that have since been cast upon it were expected &c. post. and well they might ( unless you reckoned without your host ) if you scand the scantines of the provision you made both for your credit , and the proof of your practise : but what scandalls i trow were cast upon your disputation ? here 's a great talk of disgraces , scandals , injuries that its under as from us , but ( unless summum jus be summa injuria ) we righted it rather a little too much in reckoning on it as more then it is worth , or at least not setting so slightly by it as well we might : but t is as usual a fashion among you clergy men to count your selves scandaliz'd , disparaged , disgrac'd , vilified , undervalued , &c ▪ when you are but either found out in your falsehoods , or slandered of a matter of truth as t is for you , under one vile name or other , to scandalize the saints most falsly , and slander the truth it self : yet if your repute be at reparations , more then justly , through our occasion , when we know it we shall make you satisfaction by submission , and amends by amendment , mean while have patience with us , and in due time , and christs strength i trust we shall pay you all . pre. the men which were our adversaries , and their driving was known before , &c. post. were it in respect only to your infant sprinkling that you did so frequently stile us thus , we are no less then many hundreds of its old acquaintance , who thinking once ( as you do ) that we did god service to be friends to it , could now freely answer to the name of adversaries , but we are the best friends in the world to the truth , and your persons , could you once see wood for trees , and no further adversaries to your cause , then as we are well assured you can never make it good while the world stands , by all the shifts you can devise , from the law of christ , whose cause you call it . as for our driving , were it like that of iesu the son of nimshi , it would excuse it self the better , sith t is only against the house of the woman iezebell , that hath sate as queen over the nations , and stirred up ahab the kings and powers of the earth to commit fornication with her , and to do abominably , and to shed the blood of saints : if you be not she , then our driving is not towards you , but if you be ( as i dare not be sworn that you the ccclergy throughout all christendome are not ) then wo to your house indeed , not as from us , but from the lord , who yet a little while , wherein space is given you to repent , and if he cast not you and your lovers into a bed together , and into great tribulation , except ye repent , so that all the churches of christ shall know that t is even he that searcheth the heart , and tryeth the reins , and giveth to every one of you according to your works , then the lord hath not yet spoken at all by me . pre. it is no new thing with them to bespatter those arguments with their tongue which they cannot unty with their teeth , &c. post. it is an old new thing with your selves , for it hath been of old the custome of the new clergie , though never of the true , by common councel to cry down ( as heresie ) what truth soever was too hard for them : as for us it is no new thing with us indeed , for it is one of those old things which were in use among us while we were all one with you , but since we sincerely sought the truth are past away : so that i cannot but clear those men that say it is no new thing with us , as speaking no other then the truth , and must needs condemn those who condemn us of it now , as men condemning us of a meer new nothing . pre. thou hast here a true , though short , relation of the most materiall things that passed , &c. post. i was musing a while what of the ashford-disputation this true account could be truly counted a true account of ; for i found that it mentioned neither the number , nor the names of the scribes that scrap't it , nor the disputers that disputed it , nor the arguments of more then one of those disputers , nor all his arguments , nor half the respondents answers , nor many more things that should be in it by right , nor many of those things rightly , that are in it by wrong ; at last i had resolution here that 't was a true , though short , relation of the most materiall things that passed . yea sirs ? i assure you a good whipping is fitter for that disputation , then a printed account of it to the world , unless on purpose to be laugh't at , that lasted no less then six hours , whereof five and an half past away mostly in immaterials , and the odd half too in such immaterials as these you have here accounted for : and if these are the most material things that passed , how immaterial ( may the world well think ) were the most immaterial that passed in the disputation , they surely were not worth one quarter of the while they past in . moreover that your relation is short , yea far short of the disputation related i dare not deny , but dare you say it ore and o●e again that 't is a true one ? how true it is , is so apparent by the preceding ezamen of your account , that i need not here so much as assert it to be false ; i shall therefore say no more but thus , viz. had you said [ false ] where you say [ true ] both here , and in your title page , where your — &c. is stiled a true account , a true relation , you had then said true without all question , but your saying [ true ] in these two places , where you should have said [ false ] hath made you speak falsly in both indeed . pre. the adversaries answers being rendred to his best advantage , &c. post. as for example ; sometimes his answers are altered , and translated into a clear contrary form , sense , & meaning then he ever spake in ; somtimes added to , somtimes defrauded of such clauses as would have given every body to understand his intent to be directly opposite to what its here represented , sometimes invented as it were de novo ; somtimes rendred not at all , but only related to be nothing in the least measure satisfactory , nothing that carried the least shew of sense or reason to the purpose , &c. and all this if men would believe you , and if they do not , i dare say 't is because they have neither sense nor reason whereupon to believe it , to your respondents best advantage ; but t is utterly against your wills surely sirs , besides your intentions , and in some such way as you never meant it , if it be , for 't were a wonder if you should mind my advantage so much , as to render my answers the best way in order thereunto , and 't is a chance had you intended my best advantage , but that you might have helpt me one lee-tle dram more then you have done ; what not one syllable ? not one scruple ? not one minits matter more of all that store that lies a smothering , wherewith to mend the case of your adversary , whom you seem so to pitty too , that if 't were possible , even for old emnities sake , for old truths sake , which he strives to tell you , you would do all to his best aduantage ? facile est invenire baculum ad caedendum canem ; you can easily pick a hole in his coat ; and could you not ( resolving to render things too to his best advantage ) find some few shreds and old ends , or other out of all those cast clouts , you made in the cutting out of your account , wherewith to stop a hole , and hide the shame of at least some of that silly silence you sometimes father on him , and some of that foppicall non-sense , that you fain him , and would fain have him at other times be thought to have utter'd ? was there not one grain more in all his six hours answering to put in his end of the scales , whereby to have rendred his answers a lee-tle more weighty then you have rendred them , and somewhat more answerable to sense and reason ? but in truth you may well be afforded a pardon , for when hundreds of wise men , that were ear witnesses of the disputation , shall see how grossly you have falsified what you pretend to give a true account of , the truth will be no looser , but yours the disadvantage rather in the end : by accident therefore , indirectly and in such sense as the truth of god the more abounds through mens lies against it to his glory , it may possibly prove true , that things are here rendred more to my best advantage , then if they had been more truly rendred ; but i suppose there would need no more to make democritus weep , and his dog laugh too , if he had one , then to hear you say in sober sadness , that in this ragged , and rude rendition you directly intended any such matter , as to render your adversaries answers to his best advantage , or that you intended any other then the very contrary . pre. and the ministers arguments as they were delivered without any addition , &c. post. alack good men , you minded so much the mending the case of your adversary , and so singly designed by alteration , ablation , addition , &c. the rendring of his answers to his best advantage , that you durst not trangress so much as a fingers breadth by adding any thing to what you delivered your selves , towards your own advantage in your account of the disputation ; but what ever additaments , figments , amendments , &c. are used for his aliâs your own best advantage sake in the rendring of the adversaries answers , yet the ministers arguments are set down even nakedly as they were delivered , without any addition for advantage , as if either the ministers needed nothing to be done in such a way in their case , but might well spare all the advantage to go on the other side , and yet be on the surer side too , or else were such self-denying men , that they would rather represent the cause of the adversary at the very best , then their own in the least measure any better then it was . and truly sirs i must needs say that for you , that you have not advantag'd your own matter much by addition to your arguments , but what benefit accrues to them as you manage the matter in your account , is rather by way of abdition then addition ; for you have hid the most immateriall of them from being seen at all , and rendred them clean out of the way ; the advantage they have , lies more in their being rendred by the ablative case , then by the dative . pre. thou art desired to read them without prejudice , to let thy charity cover the weakness of them , &c. post. for my own part sirs , as i heard your arguments for infant-baptism without prejudice , i. e. not passing sentence on them till i had heard them , when you urg'd them at first at the disputation by word of mouth , so god is my witness how often i have read them ore and ore again without prejudice , seriously setting my self to weigh them most impartially , in the ballance of both scripture and reason , since you urg'd them ore again in print : nevertheless i cannot possibly ( unless i speak against the light of my conscience ) judge them to be any other then what i said before , and what your selves are pleased here to acknowledge them to be before all the world , begging of people in charity to couer the weakness of them , viz. but weak arguments ; which ingenuous confession of yours if it be not a giving of the cause , i appeal not only to all rational men that shall happen to read this , who know that the truth or falshood of all causes respectively lies in the strength or weakness of the arguments , that are brought in defence thereof , so that they either stand or fall according as the arguments to uphold them ( be they few or many ) are either weak or weighty , but also to your selves , who tell us truly and plainly , that t is the weight of arguments onely ( and he is a weak man that saies weak ones are weighty ones ) that carries the cause : your own words if they may be of any weight with you are these p , . viz. besides that opinion of ovid , et si non prosunt singula , multa juvant , what ever it may carry of credit in other causes ought to have but little in this , where we trust not in multitude , nor measure by number ; but substance and weight of arguments are the foundation of our faith ; the other are for pomp and victory , these onely for satisfaction and verity : so that if a man might hope you would stick to this candid concession of yours and not start from it , there need not be much said in discovery of the weakness , or non-weightiness of your arguments , and consequently of the rottenness of your cause , for the world it self may hear what you say out of your own mouths in this very vindicatory account of yours , wherein you not onely publish some of your arguments in that same weakness and nakedness wherein at first they appeared , so that every eye may discern it , having leave now to examine them at leasure , but also after not a few vain glorious vauntings , and ventings of your selves concerning them , as of worth and weighry , in way of defence of them from those sleightings , those disgraces , those injuries and censures of them as weak and wanting , which they are under as from us , at last being sensible of their weakness you sing a new song to the tune of cry you mercy , and fall a beseeching the reader in his charity to cover the weakness of them : by which weak petition you may work upon some weak ignorants , that are not book learn'd , or ( if they be ) stand bent to believe all things as you desire them , but on none that are truly disciples , though onely a. b. c. darians in the school of christ , but sirs , what need so much peccavi and precari ? if your ware were currant it would go off with acceptance without such a deal of cap and congee , and pittiful intreaty to the reader to cover the weakness of your arguments , the strength of which onely should cause him to gather the goodness of your cause , and not strong intreaty to take it for good , though the arguments you plead it by are but weak : vino vendibili non opus est haedera : if your arguments and reasons for baby-baptism be strong and solid , your reader ( if rational ) will receive them ; if weak ( as you say they are ) he is a reader scarce worth writing reason to , who will be prevailed with by your desire so to cover their weakness as in charity to suffer himself to be overcome , and carried away by them ( notwithstanding that their weakness ) to close with you in your cause , and to be beaten into a belief of your baptism as good , though it hath but broken reeds and bulrushes to maintain it , by the force of bare beggings and beseechings d : or if in this request of yours to us , to cover the weakness of your arguments your meaning is , not that we should be so silly as to build our belief and practice upon them , though weak by your own confession , whose they are ; but onely that we should not publish , discover and divulge their weakness to the world , but in charity be content to think our think , or to see and say nothing ; truly sirs , what others will do at your request in this kind i know not , but i assure you i cannot possibly for my part grant your desire in this case , forasmuch as your selves have engaged me several waies not to be silent , on pain of giving away the cause ; which if it were onely my own too , the matter were so much the less , you should have it with all my heart ; yea verily and my own life too to do your souls good , for i know i could freely part with it to be a means of effecting your salvation ; but since it is the cause of god , which he hath intrusted me with the pleading of against you , who presume to enter the lists against it , with such silly tools , and weak weapons , on behalf of a babish-baptism which is not from heaven , but of men , i dare not give place so far as in foolish pitty to spare the cittie babylon , or in charity not to bewray a breach or weakness in her walls of defence , when i spie it , for that were in charity to betray the truth of of god , and such charity is more antichristian , by far then christian , what ere you call it , and such as could have small hope of acceptance before god , however esteemed of among men : wherefore i desire you to have me excused , if i cannot in charity cover the weakness of your arguments , for in charity to poor souls , that are led aside from the way of truth by your piteous pious pretences , and weak reasonings for your way , 〈◊〉 i am concerned in the very next place , after i have done with this of yours to the reader , to discover to the world the weakness of them : besides sith you have made so bold with your selves , as to proclaime the weakness of your own arguments for infant-baptism ( i hope the counties of kent and sussex will consider this , that their choise ministry that stood up to maintain infant-baptism at ashford , did after in their own account theerof give out of their own accord , that there was weakness in the arguments they brought for that purpose ) men mutire nefas ? i hope it shall be no offence to you for me to second you in your own saying ; 't is you who have publisht your arguments to be weak , my business shall be only publickly to prove them so to be as you assert them : yet if it be offensive to you , it shall be no wonder to me , for i know already that you can bear it better to have your disputation ly under disgrace and disparagement , under shame and censure of weakness from your selves in print , then from your supposed adversary , and true friend my self so much as in a private letter only ; and that some men ( as the proverb is ) may more safely steal the horse , then some so much as peep o're the hedge . pre. not to suffer the cause to be wronged thorow the desects of those , who had more zeal to maintain it , then abilities , &c. post. t is both usual , and lawfull for us to judge of causes by the effects , that naturally and necessarily flow from them , for qualis causa , i. e. naturalis , & per se , talis effectus , & retró ; e. g. infant-sprinkling hath been a cause efficient and per se , from whence much evil hath necessarily crept into the world , for it hath been a means of confounding the church and the world together , of letting the gentiles or nations by whole sale into the outter court , of filling the world with meer nominal christians , and carnal christianity , whereby they have got advantage ever since to tread down the holy city , and true worship and worshippers , as heresie , hereticks , of bringing the nations into one catholick church whereof the pope was universall bishop , or overseer for ages together , thorow the eyes of his creatures the clergy , the very stirrup whereby he and his ministers , who have blended themselves into a blind and beastly uniformity , have become masters of the kingdomes , and have got up to ride them ; a plea and president for traditions , ( it being one it self ) which ever make gods commands void , and mens worship of god in vain ; an inlet of these and innumerable more mischiefs and absurdities , for posito hoc uno absurdo sequuntur mille , therefore it is undoubtedly an ill cause : also t is lawfull to judge of a cause by the common consequents which come from it , not as caused properly , but meerly occasioned by it , and in respect of which it is called only causa sine quâ non , i. e. that without which the other would not be , and yet no other then the bare accidentall occasions of those effects , which flow from something else as the cause thereof perse ; and most especially when those consequents are declared by the word of god to be such , as will upon that occasion universally and unavoidably come to pass ; and thus we may give a shrew'd guess that our cause is good , viz. that our gospel , ministery , church-way and baptism is the true one , because we see it is seconded now , and ever hath been with what it was of old seconded , and foretold also that it should ever be even every where to the worlds end , viz. divisions in families , two against three , and three against two , the father against the son , the daughter against the mother &c. offences of friends , and fleshly relations , the account of heresie and baseness , hatred of men , persecution , cavils , stirs , tumults about it , by which things christs people , gospel , ministers , and ministrations are ever proved to be his luke . . . . math. . . . tim. . . cor. . . cor. . , . so that where there 's none of this i avouch the gospell in its purity is not there though where these are the gospel is not the cause for that is men lusts and flesh fighting against the light , but the only the occasion , whereupon they arise ; when satan the strong man holds the house the goods are all in peace , but when christ the stronger man comes to storm him out , there 's contention , in hearts , houses , towns and countries , as when christ came to ierusalem all was in an uproar , and when paul came with his gospel to ephesus , athens , iconium , lystra , derbe lewd fellows of the baser sort were set on by others to raise tumults , for truth tormented them into rage ; thus we often judge of causes as good or bad , right or wrong , by the effects that flow from them , but to reason upon a cause as good , or ill , true , or false , right or wrong according to the might or moaness , the abilities or defects of the persons that stand up for it is the right way to wrong it indeed , sith the antichristian cause hath the mighty , wise , and prudent priests , and potentates of the world for its patrons , when the poor only , for the most part , receive christs gospell and the strength that god ordains in defence thereof against the persecutor is the mouths of babes and sucklings . causes are to be rejected as wrong and false according to the defects and weakness that is discovered to be in the arguments that are brought to maintain , and not by the weakness and defects that may seem to be in those that are more zealous then able to mannage them , if there appear to be weight in the arguments : these if strong however weakly and babishly propounded will carry the cause in the conscience of any , but such priest-be-charmed christians , as in charity to their churchmen , are resolved to yield themselves up to be carried away with every wind of doctrine that passes from them , and , covering the weakness of them , to be whifled any way by such arguments as the men themselves , that make them are fain to grant to be weak to prove what they are brought for ; for no argument is weak that is sufficient to evince the thing it s used in proof of , though it fall from the mouth of never so weak a man ; if a weak feeble hand letfall an heavy axe upon it , or a sharp sword , even the sword of the spirit the word of god , that is quick and powerfull it may serve to cut off the popes head , tripple crown and all , but if the pope himself , and all his children , which are the ablest humanists in the world , come out to warre against christ and his cause with reeds and rushes , blind non sequiturs , weak and broken consequences , they must ride back to rome for stronger swords , or else they may force fools into conformity to their follies , but never guide wise men after the spirit to believe their cause to be good : as therefore t is not good that an ill cause , that hath but weak arguments to uphold it , should be owned for good , either in charity , or upon pretence of ability in the persons that patronize it , as the clergies crooked cause of infant-sprinkling is , for what saies the parish to those poor ones in it , that entertain the gospel , are you wiser than a whole synod of able orthodox divines ? so it is a thousand pitties that a good cause , that hath strong arguments enough from scripture , and reason to prove it right , should be wronged so , as to be rejected as rotten ( yet so christs true baptism is ) through the defects of the persons called anabaptists , who are supposed at least to have more zeal then ability to prove it ; of which sin of wronging a right cause upon account of such defects , even the cause of christs true baptism , which in his strength those babes that are baptized with it are not only zealous , but able to make good against the ablest baby-baptist that is among you , i know no men under the sun more guilty , then you clergy men , who take your advantages to cry out the lowder against it as error , by the defects of christs disciples that plead and practise it , of whom you say commonly , as you say complementally of your selves here , they have more zeal , then abilities to maintain it ; yea verily you , who seem here , whether more simply or more simulatorily who knows not ? so to implore the charitable benevolence of well disposed people to cover the weakness of your arguments , and not to suffer your cause of infant-sprinkling to suffer throw your defects , and inabilities to maintain it , are men so far from teaching facienda faciendo , from doing to others as you would be done to , that you rather disclaim and proclaim those arguments of ours as weak , which as feeble a folk as we are , are strong enough to storm you out of your strongest holds , and cause that cause to be despised , under pretence of our defects , which though weak in our selves , and pretending to little of that outward accomplishment , which you call ability , yet throw christs word assertaining it to be his , and his spirit assisting us thereunto , we have both zeal and ability to maintain : who is it i trow that trumpets about the eminency and learnedness of their party and illiteracy of the anabaptists , whereby to render the way the more contemptible , more then the priesthood , who charm their people against the receipt of the gospel , in such sort as the pharisees of old when they said , are you also deceived ? have any of the rulers of the pharisees believed on him ? but this people that know not the law are cursed ioh. . , , . so brags dr featly and his fellows , despising the way of dipping viz. joint suffrages of so many bishops in such a synod : as for the anabaptists , they are a few , mean , sylly men and women , an illiterate and sottish sect , the father and head of whom , quoth he , was nicholas stock , and a very blockhead was he : p. . simple rude mechani●ks , russet rabbies , apron levites , whom we own not , quoth he , but detest and abominate p. , who know not how to dispute for truth , because they know not the original , and cannot conclude syllogistically in mood and figure p. . . thus featly defeats them in their cause by dilating on their defects , and which of you almost do not confirm your people against their cause by their infirmities of one kind or other ? like flies you feast your selves upon their sores , and let go their sounder parts ; you make much of their little to your purpose , you make your best out of their worst , and out of their personal weaknesses strengthen your selves , and others against the truth , which wise men know is nevertheless truth for the poors receiving it ; you root in their very excrements , whereby to find matter to make their good cause bad ; and yet here , oh how mendicant of other mens mercy , not only to spare sentencing your cause as wrong , by your personall defects , and want of abilities , but also in charity to couer the weakness of your arguments ? which is such an unreasonable request , as was scarce ever put forth before by any disputants , who if they find their arguments to be weak , ought rather to recant them , specially after such publique acknowledgement of the weakness of them , and to desire people that they would not suffer themselves to be swayed by them then otherwise . but sirs , do you think in your consciences that there is such weakness in your arguments , as is here intimated to us in your own book ; and likewise that your cause , which is so far from a good one , that it deserves to bear the name of abaddon , is in danger of suffering so much through your defects in disputing it , unless men be so charitable as to wink at the weaknesses of both ? i speak seriously in my mind you had then better by far have conceal'd then reveal'd your disputation in an account , and had provided much better for the honor of it , for now you have vindicated it from the disgraces , with which it was loaded in private like him that fetches a frisk out of the frying pan into the fire , whilst you publish it in the same weakness , ( onely robbing your respondent of the strength of his answers ) in which it discover'd it self at first , and hang it out against the sun , so that all men may see clean through it ( so thin and thread-bare it is ) and that without spectacles , and not onely so but make proclamation of the weakness of your arguments , with a petition to pardon the weakness of them : that 's an ill bird , which in hast bewraies his own nest , and leaves it to others to make all clean , and such are they that uncover their own nakedness so far , when they need not , that they are fain to be beholding to the benevolence of others to cover it , and yet are so inexorable as to hold the cause of others inexcusable in the self same case , wherein they are earnest to be excused by them ; for our cause is at a loss among you for the sake of what ere defects you spie in any persons that profess it . but i believe you are not cordiall in your a●knowledgements here , for if you were , you would surely have endured your respondents private representations of the weakness of your arguments , and your pedling in your proof of infant-baptism with more patience then you did ; but its evident by your impatience towards him in that kind , that , what ere you say here of your selves in a voluntary humility , yet ▪ you have so good an opinion of your selves , and your work too that day , that ( tam nil as nothing as it here seems to be in your account as well as ours ) you take it ill that any should esteem so poorly , and speak so plainly , though but privately , of your trifling doings , as you dispense with your selves to do here in publick before all the world ; and howbeit here 's weakness , and defects , and defects , p. . overtly worded over by you in a general way , yet it 's an hundred to one , if a man take you at your word , and yield to what you say as truth , and say it ore after you , that there 's much weakness in your arguments , and that there were many defects in your disputation , and your zeal of infant-baptism is great , and your abilities but mean to maintain it , you will be half angry with him , and think he casts scandals upon your disputation , and be ready to gainsay all this , and to stand up in vindication of your arguments as strong and sufficient , and lay all the defects that were in the disputation at your respondents door ; and if you be askt , what one individual particular syllogism ; term , argument or scripture you were out in the framing , uttering , urging or underctanding of throughout the whole day of the disputation ? i am perswaded you will sooner bite your nayles then assign any , or if it be specified by others that in this , and that you were out , you misunderstood such or such a scripture , such a speech or passage you faultred in , i am afraid your pretended self-deniall will be found so little , that you 'l justifie your selves in every bit and scrap of that which past from you during the whole discourse , which makes your confessions deserve but little of that favour , you so much implore , by how much they savor of juggle and complement , more then of a real true sense of what is wanting to you indeed , which verily is a right-baptism to maintain , rather then abilities to maintain that right-none that you stood up for : nevertheless i must needs grant it to be true that you say here , that your abilities were far short of your zeal , yea so short , that howbeit you had a good mind to do it , yet you neither did nor could maintain it at all ; but wherefore was it , but because you had a bad cause in hand ? yea , had your zeal been as big as your cause was bad , there had been no standing before you indeed : the defects of your cause was the cause of your defects , and not your own defects the cause of your causes : had not the fault been more in your faith , which was a false one , then in your faculty to maintain things ; and had that and your baptism been as good , as your parts are great , and both these as probable , as you capable to prove , the meanest among you might have done more at the disputation , then ( as it happend ) all of you did per vim unitam , because though you fought with one , who was no more then a flea in your ears , yet you hapned to be fog'd so that you faced the wrong way , and fell in unawares against the truth , which in these daies of its return falls upon inquisitive consciences with more force from the mouth of fooles and babes , then meer tradition doth from the wisest babists in the world : the deepest defect is in the cause you defend , in the way you warrand , t is a crooked cause , an unwarrantable way , and therefore those that will warrand mens walking in it , can never do it without faultring and fumbling in the work , and such after occasions of fawning on men for their charitable excusation . gentlemen ( that i may neither seem to defie , nor yet to deifie your persons , but put things upon a true account ) you are men that have some worth and excellency , and yet some weakness and exigency too , but i impute your miscarriage in the disputation not half so much to your own , as to your causes indigency ; your business was well man'd , but ill manag'd , because there was but an ill matter to be maintain'd ; you were at the wrong end of the staff , and therefore well might you be defective in the strife : this makes the least of the flock draw you great leviathans out now adayes , and the feeble to be as david before goliahs , that have been polemically exercised from their youth , in that truth on their side doth animate and assist them : you meet them with staff and spear , and humane accomplishments , and they stand before you in the name of god , and strength of that truth , , and true israel of his whom you yet defie ; this makes schoolmen like schoolboyes under the rod , when they are taken tardy in their exercise , and see they are like to be whipt for it , cry spare us , in that their school-masters the pope , and councels have overtaskt them , and set them a theam , which scripture , whence onely they must fetch all their proofs , saies just nothing of at all : this makes the disputers , the divines to come abroad a begging in print among the vulgar ( as you here do ) saying cover , pass by , bewayling the weakness of their arguments , their defects in disputing , their presumption in entring the lists , their non-preparation for the disputation , because it s not the true gospel they disputed for , a very stripling may make a gyant give back , if he have hold on the hilt of his sword , and the other thrust hard against the blade ; 't is hard for thee o saul to kick against the pricks : a learned lawyer may be at loss in a lame suit ; asinus ad lyram may play his part better , and make sweeter musick then the most accurate musitian , that hath nothing to beat upon but a board : it may well put any , but the meer sophister to his shifts , to prove the moons made of green cheese , and so 't will any , save the meer self-seeker , that is set to serve it out of a sight that he can serve himself of it , and therefore is resolv'd to make any argument serve turn ( even libet ergo licet ) rather then leave it , to prove infant-baptism , much more infant-rantism to be a good cause : and yet ( the more 's the pitty ) this is the cause you have to make good , and have been so bold as to stand up for , which though your wishes are here , that it may not suffer wrong through your defects , yet mine are much rather that you may not suffer your selves to be wrong'd any more , or to be wrong'd for ever through its defects , for howbeit it flatters you into an opinion of its ability to be maintain'd by you , by its appearing ability to maintain you , yet you 'l find ith'end , that by its fair flourishes it hath flusht you into more zeal , then furnisht you with ability to maintain it , when it shall have brought you to your choice of one of these two , ( ex quibus minimum est eligengendum ) viz. either of repentance from it , and all other your parochiall dead works , tithes and other traditions that depend upon it , upon a sight and acknowledgement that you have been mistaken about these , as well as other romish remnants , that you have seen cause through the parliaments eyes to renounce since that long since lutheran reformation , which after longer standing out will be so much the harder chapter for you clergy men to run throw , or else which is worse then nought , of perseverance in your evil waies , and dead works , against light , to prevent the other , which last the lord prevent from befalling any of you if it be his will. pre : who would not have presumed to have entered the lists , &c. post. it had been no presumption in you , had you been true ministers of christ , and the cause you stood up in christs cause indeed : for grant it to be presumption in vzziah to meddle in the publique service of the temple , and in vzziah to put forth his hand to uphold the ark and consequently ( for so you argue , not we ) for men to meddle , so as to minister to the gospel publiquely in your churches , that are not in holy orders ; yet it is none ( vos apello ) for the priests , or ordained ministers of christ to stand up any where in defence of christs truth where it s traduced , but rather duty , which in speciall they stand bound to ; in that therefore you accounting your selves christs ministers , do grant it to be presumption in you , to put forth so publiquely when you saw it tottering , you do no less thou give the cause you stood up in to be none of his ; as indeed it was not but your own , and that was it only which made it presumption , and very high presumption in you too , in that you durst enter the lists against the lord iesus in in his own ordinance ; and that with such weak arguments , such flags as flam'd like swords , but alas such as could not bear the brunt when it came to blows here , how much less will they in that battel of the great day of god almighty , which is now marching apace upon you . 't is true therefore ( as you here confess ) you have been presumptuous , and presumption , is one of the most desperate sins that can be against christ , yet for all that in his name , and as an embassador from him ( though otherwise an unworthy , and ever a contemptible creature in your eyes ) as though himself did beseech you by me , i am bold to beg of you that you would not despair , but come in , and be reconciled to him , presuming no more to stand up against him with such weak weapons as before , least he tear you in pieces , fall upon you , and grind you to powder ; but sit down and humble your selves , that you have stood so long in the way of sinners , so that they could not come to christ through your blurres ; lay down your arms , and yield your selves prisoners to him , stoop to that golden scepter he yet holds out unto you ; own him as your king , priest and prophet ; list no more against him , but list your selves under him , for he is gracious and will yet receive you , and baptize you with his spirit , if you turn at his reproof , and repent , and be baptized in water in his name for remission of sins , pro. . . act. . . become little children in such a sense as you should be , that you may be baptized , and then be baptized in truth , and in token ( for your memory hath lost your traditionary token sprinkling ) that hereafter you will not be ashamed to confess the faith of christ crucified , but manfully fight under his banner against sin , the world and the devill , and continue christs faithful souldiers to your lives end . how happy had it been for you if you had took quarter from christ before this time , for he would have given it , and forgiven all your enmity against him in his truth , but you are stiff-blades , and your words have been stout against him ; you clergy men are lords , you will not come neer ; but i beseech you become lord beggars at the throne of grace ( as brightman said truly the bishops were for earthly honor at the thrones of kings and princes ) that you may have more of that grace and holiness to worship god with reverence according to his own will , which god gives to all humble suppliants ; then had you less learning and living then you have , and more disgrace in this world , then ever any synods of you had reverence , or arch-bishops grace , or popes holiness , you would never find occasion to bewail your losses , or repent of your change , or reject the councel of god against your selves , out of his mouth , who is a serious sollicitor , both from god to you that you would be , and to god for you that you may be in the acknowledgement o● his truth no less then happy for ever . pre. where there was so great expectation , &c. post. there was great expectation indeed , though not greater then little satisfaction : for first some were earnestly expected , ( and one also evidently engaged to be there , so that some durst have laid any money he would not fail them ) who what ere the matter was , were not there . the two doctors e a. b. were both absent , yet to my knowledge both adsent , and good reason too , ●or they were then not onely as immediate neighbours to each other , in respect of the vicinity of their houses , as a. b. in the cris-cross row , but also lookt upon for ability as two foremen in that whole classis of clergy-men . as for a , whom for his age i truly reverence , and some other excellencies , in respect of which many are inferior to him , if his prudence forbad his presence he may the more easily be excused , by how much the less he was ingaged ; but as for b. the very beginner of all that business ( ut supra ) though i both lov'd and honour'd his person , more then he did that truth of christ i pleaded against him , yet i must needs say , for him to beget this infant-disputation , and then on its birth day father it per alios , and not per se , 't was too like them , to whom in that , and many more matters ( if he were not ) many more of that leaven are like , who bind heavy burdens , and grievous to be borne on other mens shoulders , and touch them not themselves with one of their fingers . secondly , as some were expected to be there who were not , so something was expected by the people from those that were there , which yet could not be performed ; first ( and last too sith it might not be at first ) from the respondent , that since he was declaim'd against as an heretick and seducer , that he should have given account ( that being the professed end of his coming ) of the way he walkt in , that 't was the way of truth ; but he could not , because it was not permitted by the priests , who pretended to be most strict upon him for it , neither afore , nor at , not after , nor within , nor without ( till he got far enough from the ring-leaders ) peaceably , publiquely , perfectly , and plainly to give it to them . secondly , from the opponents , that since they cried out error , error , heresie , schism , sedu●ement , they would prove ( for preach they would not neither ) by way of argument , and by arguments that had weight in them , that their infant-baptism was the way of christ , but they could not neither , for whereas strong arguments were expected , they brought none but such weak ones , that they were fain to wish good people to let their charity cover the weakness of them . pre. without better preparation , &c. post. indeed your preparation was bad enough in all reason , and it will be expected , that if ever you enter the lists again your preparation be far better then it was ; but yet ( as it fell out ) it was better then worse , and by so much the better , by how much it was less then ordinary ; for take this for truth sirs that your preparation may easily be bigger , but never better , if your cause be the same : preparation to any bad matter is ever ( if the bigger the better ) then the better the worse , for vis est improba quae valet ad nocendum , a power that hurts is best when least : and a little of that which is good is better , then a great deal of that which is nought . first , then make your cause good . secondly , your cell : thirdly , your conscience , as far as it needs mending , then all will be well enough ith'end ; and though men will fume and frown on you , yet shall you be backt so well from heaven , as to need no mans patronage here on earth , nor yet so much time for preparation , as you now lack , who are ever to seek when summond to sudden service : for the preparation of the heart , and the answer of the tongue are both from the lord , prov. . . on whom were you so intimately and immediately dependent as his disciples are bid to be , mat. . , . mar. . . luke . . you would not be so sollicious what to say before the proudest princes , as for want of that and somewhat else you commonly are before the plainest people ; nor when you stand up in his name , shall you need to excuse your presumption , if you stood before as many kings as there were people to plead for truth : but alas deest aliquid intus ( as one said who went about to make a dead man stand ) the spirit of the father speaks not in you , you stick to a certain stock of divinity , which you have stored up in your studies , and common-place books , which when you are but . foot off from , you are so far off from your harbor and harness , that meer mechanick scripturists may make you strike sail to them ; but you want that inward treasury , and through instruction for the kingdome of god , mat. . . luk. . . by which the good scribe is furnisht ( as occasion is ) to bring forth things new and old ; this is one thing , which more then the hast of disputations , forbids you to be so throughly provided as you should be : besides deest aliquid ad extra too , for the truth is that small preparation you make is more against then for the truth , as it is in iesus , which who ever implead , though with never so much acurateness , and acuteness of dispute ( whether it be you or we ) can be but homines obtuse acuti ( as a man famous in your account said well of such ) i. e. acute block-heads at the best . pre. but that they feared the triumphings of the adversary , &c. post. as far as the adversary is minded to triumph , he hath much more occasion ministred by your undertakings , then if you had never entered the lists at all ; for then it might have been thought , that you could have said something in proof of infant-baptism but would not ; but now 't is known you would have said something to that purpose , but could not : but alas sirs , as adverse to you , and desirous to triumph over you as we are accounted by you to be , we had much rather have occasion of rejoicing and triumphing in your sincere submission thereto , then in either your dastardly disposition , or your weak opposition of the truth , yet thanks be to god , whether you own or decline , or spurn against the truth , he alwayes causeth us to triumph in christ , and maketh manifest the savour of his love by us in every place , for we are unto god a sweet savor of christ , in them that are saved , and in them that perish ; and as for our great turn of triumphing truly over them , who have trodden down the truth , we are in serious expectation of that at the return of our captain christ iesus , till then we must be no otherwise triumphant , then as i said above , but with the whole state of christs church militant here on earth . pre. and the unanswerable crime of deserting the truth to be charg'd upon them , if they had not stood up to maintain it , especially when the not doing of it had startled the strong , offended the weak , and confirmed those in their error , which were fallen before . post. to desert the truth is an unanswerable crime indeed , the sense of which i believe may be the reason not onely why some priests are so loath to answer any thing at all ( as dr. gouge was to dr. chamberlain , and others , that shall here be nameless , unto my self ) but also why both they and their people have so little to answer when they come seriously to be reckon'd with about it , for verily as for the people , now the lord comes by the spirit and power of elijah , to restore things in the latter daies , to that primitive purity , which hath been of old deserted , and to expostulate with them for that baalitish worship , which iezebell the queen hath stirred up the kings of the earth to set up among them , they are either shiftless and speechless before his messengers , so that we may say of them as of that be-baalited people that stood before the old elijah ; viz. the people answered him not a word , or else nothing is answered that hath any shew of sense or reason to the purpose ; and sometimes such a miserable mess , and goodly gallimaufrey of reasons is rendred in defence of that one babish babilonish way of sprinkling infants infonts ( to instance in no other ) the very naming of which ( to name no more then hath been nam'd , in way of account thereof in my own hearing ) is evidence enough , that some men ) for some are not so gropably blinded as some , though all too grosly that go off from truth ) are more then half minded , because they know not well what to say , therefore to say they well know not what : viz ▪ are we wiser then our forefathers ? shall we think that so many learned orthodox divines would practise it if it were not the truth ? i am sure it was a custome before we were born ; how shall our children come to have names , if they be not christned ? how can they be saved if they die unchristned ? they are not christ'n creatures till they have their christ'ndome , and such like : as for the priests , they have been so rubd up of late , that they have been forc't to find more witnesses , indeed more then the scripture affords to stand by them at rheir bason-business , and how eagerly they agree altogether in one clashis is shew'd hereafter : but the antient standard of all , which is at hand to serve every ones turn , as a text in the pulpit , and as a testimony to the truth of their false way at every turn , is that which every one hath by roat , and by root of heart , and at fingers ends , more then the root , heart , right end , and sense of those texts they take it out of , viz. they brought little children to christ , by his permission , that he should touch them , and to such belongs the kingdom of heaven , ergo , infants in infancy must be baptized , the consequence of which , as t is no less then this , they brought sick folks unto christ , by his permission , that he should touch them , and to such belongs the kingdome of heaven , ergo , sick folks must be baptized in the time of their sickness , so it swayes not me , if it be somewhat more then that of the papists , viz. they brought an ass for christ to ride on , ergo , asses are blessed creatures , that have a cross upon their crests ever since , and as for that in special that bore him , happy are hundreds of people that can every one get a leg of him . and now whereas you say you feared it ; oh that you did indeed fear the unanswerable crime of deserting the truth to be charg'd upon you , then would you return from whence in the uniuersal deluge you are departed , and stand up to maintain that faith , gospel , baptism , church , order which was once delivered to the saints ; but now you stand up for error and mans invention , and though you seem to salve all ore so surely , and to answer so handsomely that all men cannot discry you , yet doth not he see all your wayes , and count all your steps ? if therefore you are stept aside out of the way , and walk in vanity upon fetches and far fecht consequences , despising the cause of god , when in plainness he contendeth it with you , out of the mouth of babes , what will you do when he riseth up ? when he visiteth what will you answer ? yea , when he asks who hath required this at your hands ? you will be as blank before him about your baby-sprinkling , as they about their bawble bell-sprinkling , both being but limbs of the idol bell that serves the bellies of the priest-hood ; your non prohibition excuses one no more then the other . though therefore you still strive to startle men into a joint perseverance with you in that way , which you are so disjointed about among your selves , yet when christ speaks to you in his wrath , for changing his laws , he will silence you , yea , he will startle the strongest of you , who by your superstitions offend his weak little ones , and instead of pulling them out ( as you ought to do in all your preaching places ) confirm those whole parishes in their errors , who were fallen before you came to them , pre. farewell . post. so you say indeed , but your reader may fare ill enough for ought you have set before him in your ensuing tractate ; you feed him with a first , second and third course , yet all such course fare , that his soul may starve , that takes no other course then you here put him upon , in order to the salvation of it , which is no other then under a pious pretence , and seeming notion of avoiding anabaptism , heresie and schism to keep off from ever owning christ in his own baptism , and to bid farewel for ever to the onely way of truth and peace . these few faults that have escaped the press in this foregoing part , the reader is desired in order to his better understanding of the authors meaning to correct as followeth . page . line . read volumninous , p. . l. . read indeed , p. . l. . r. it p. . in the marginal note , r. psittaco , also r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , also r. conari , p. . in the marginal note r. you , who also term your selves , p. . l. , . r. not , p. . l. . r. they mightly , also l. . r. when he had been . anti-babisme . or the babish disputation at ashford for baby — baptism disproved . and now sirs , having dispatcht my disproof of your first piece of patch , viz. your true ac-count-erfeit of the disputation , i address my self to a disproof of your disputation it self , which i take all men to witness , is such a cloudy , crooked , confused , self confuting , indefinite mingle-mangle , and muddy mess of argumentation , as was seldome or never ( i perswade my self ) set forth to be viewed , and reviewed from the pens of professed disputers . i shall first say a word to it in generall , and then to each argument in it's order . the general● praecognitum , which i would have you and all men take notice of is this , first either that you do not dispute , but rather most miserably mis-pute besides the question , as stated between us , and the position you took upon you to prove , which was only that infants of believers are to be baptized ( as is laid down in the second proposition pa. . ) for you run on all along in such generall terms , viz. children , infants , little ones , little infants , little children , seldome or never naming the term of believing parents , which ought of right to have been exprest in every argument that past you , in order to distinction of those infants , whose cause onely you plead , whose peculiar right to baptism you profess to prove , from all other infants , viz. of infidels , or unbelievers ; and this i observe is your manner in all your discourses , for when ever you come to dispute this point , you state your question still in terms too narrow , and such as are no more adaequate to your proofs , then to your practise ; for in your question you dare affirm no further , then that such children only as are born of believing parents , are to be baptized , but as your practice over reaches this by far , while you dispense your baptism rantism to all infants , even those of such parents , who in your preachings are noted for no believers , so in your proofes you overlash as much , and shoot far more wide from your principle , and profess'd opinion , which is that no infants , but those of believers , have right to baptism , when yet you huddle over all in such indefinite language as pleads the baptism of all infants as well as some . or else secondly , if yee will needs have us to understand you all along as meaning believers infants only , in contradistinction to all other infants , to whom your selves say baptism at all belongs not , then you and all may see how curiously you come off , how egregiously you● genius hath gull'd you all along , for verily if mine own minerva may be credited by me , there 's not one inch of argument dictated to you , nor tittle of consequence brought by you for the evincing the right of the one to baptism , viz , the infants of believers ; but if it tended truely to such a purpose , it would tend as truely , and undeniably to evince the other , viz. the right of baptism to unbelievers infants also , to whom ( in pretence ) you deny it as well as we : yea i appeal to all rational men in the world to judge , whether you have brought one argument in either your account , or review , which may not as well be used ( though that 's ill enough too ) on behalf of one of these sorts of infants , as to the clearing their right to baptism , as of the other ? there is but four general heads ( for all the rest of your proofs are but subordinate to one or other of these ) from whence you inferr not only that it is lawfull to baptize believers infants ; but also that it is wickedness to deny it , viz. first , the being , and appearing of the holy spirit to be in believers infants . secondly , the deteriorty of the gospel-covenant comparatively to that of the law , if when little infants of the iews were all circumcised , little infants of believing parents may not now be baptized . thirdly , the desperateness or cruelty that is in the denyall of baptism to infants of believing parents , or the destructiveness thereof to all hope of their salvation in the hearts of their parents , and down-right endangering their damnation ( so dying ) if baptism be denyed them . fourthly , the practise of the vniversall church , which having for many hundred years together administred baptism to infants , may not without damnable blasphemy be once thought to have erred so long a time , in so necessary a matter as baptism . all which four considerations ( not to speak as yet of their utter invalidity to prove the baptism of any infants at all , for so i must do by and by ) i am now to shew how they do not a jot more prove the warrantableness of baptizing of believers infants , to whom we deny that ordinance , then of the infants of very infidells , and unbelievers , to whom your selves doctrinally deny it also . as for the last , which i le begin with first , and so go back to that which is first indeed , viz. the practise of the universal or catholique church ; i confess indeed that what you , and the pope too do call the universal church , viz. christendome , or to use your own phrase , the christian world , which with me rather is , and hath been for many ages antichristian , that vast voluminous church body , and ecclesiasticall empire , or seven headed , ten horned universall beast , that the whore , or ccclergy hath so universally bejaded , this hath universally baptizid , or rather but rantized infants , universally i say , not only in respect of time , and place , i. e. in every nation , province , and parish within her verg , in every age of her reign , but also in respect , of the subject , viz. all infants that are born in those several nations of what parents soever , whether believers or unbelievers , without exception , and by so much more to infants of very unbelievers then of believers , by how much ( as your selves witness in your pulpits ) christs flock in respect of the rest , that are none of his , even in christendome it self , is but a little flock , yea and the number of unbelievers , in the very protestant , and most reformed nations of it , which dispense baptism to infants as universally as the other , is even many to one surpassing the number of believers : but sirs , what is all this to you purpose , i say to your purpose , which is to prove by example of the universall church , the practise of baptism to infants of believers onely ? suppose this , which you mistake so to be , were the true church of god ▪ indeed , and that her practise were set for our example , and such a true topick , as priests and papists make it , from whence to fetch good warrant to do the like , yet i pray sirs , doth it not as well warrant the baptism of unbelievers infants , against which you plead , together with us , as of such infants as are born of believing parents only , the baptism of which infants only you plead against us ? will you argue from the universality of the christian worlds doings to the particularity of your own sayings , as if the universal baptizing of all unbelievers infants , as well as others in all christendome were an argument ab exemplo , and a plain ; as for example , that the infants of believers only are to be baptized ? sirs , what if a man were minded in jest to become a fool so far , in order to the convicting you of folly , as to maintain against you , who deny it , that not believers infants onely , but those of unbelievers also must be baptized , and should argue this ab exemplo , might he not ( as dr. featly saies to us in another case ) kill you with your own dudgen dagger ? for seriously sirs , as far as that example is of force , it overturns your turn , who use it , in the thing in order to which you alledge it , and overthrows you clearly in your question , as you state it , and in your tenet of a right to baptism , for only believers infants ; exemplifying rather , if the example were to be heeded , the baptizing , not of such infants only as are born of believing parents , which we are against , but such as are born of unbelieving parents also , whose baptism your selves are against , as well as we . ad hominem therefore i conclude , and ab exemplo on behalf of unbelievers infants , as your selves do from the same head on behalf of believers infants only , thus , viz. to hold that the universal church , or christian world hath erred in so necessary a matter as baptism , for so many hundred years , is little less than damnable blasphemy . but to hold it an error to baptize the infants , that are born of unbelieving parents , is to hold that the universal church , or christian world , which hath baptized in suo genere such as well as others , hath so long erred , in so necessary a matter as baptism . ergo to hold it an error to baptise the infants that are born of unbelieving parents , is little less then damnable blasphemy . another argument whereby you strive to evince your opinion , viz. the baptism of believers infants above other infants , and to evade ours , viz. the denial of baptism to them both alike , as desperate and ungodly , is drawn from the danger of their damnation if it be denied them , and the destructiveness of that denyal to all that hope , that else may be had of their salvation , which if it be of force , doth it not cry out as loud against your desperate , and ungodly cruelty on behalf of those millions of innocents of infidells , dying infants , to whom in opinion , and doctrinally you deny baptism as well as we , as it doth on behalf of believers infants , who are no more innocent then the other , to whom we deny it also ? for if it be such a business , as not we , but you , and the rest of the right romish priests seem to make it , the denial of which , de jure & facta , damnes so down-rightly the infants dying without it , that there 's no hope to be had of their salvation , so you say , or else my shallow noddle cannot reach the profoundity of your purpose , in pettering out that pure pious piece of sense which with this argument of yours is stuffed pag. . then it s high time , as high a degree of charity as you would be thought to have towards a few infants , viz. one of a hundred , for scarely so many are true believers infants to the rest , to plead for the baptism of unbelievers infants too , and stand up in the cause of those innumerable poor babes , that cannot speak a word for themselves against your cruelties , who deny baptism to them , and deny all hope of their salvation to whom ( they so dying ) it is deni'd : yea verily sirs perswade us to that once , and make us believe that popish trumpery , that the deniall of baptism to any infants doth so much as doctrinally damn them , and then i 'le plead for baptizing of infants in a larger way then you who confine it to believers infants onely , viz. for the baptism of all babes and sucklings in the world , and that least they die , and so be damn'd before it be dispensed to them so soon as they are well out of the womb : so far are we from that cruelty to infants , which you ( commonly , though not properly ) charge upon us , tha if we thought as you think ( but sirs mistake us not , for we have good ground to act more charity then your selves do to all dying infants ) could we think i say that their salvation did so depend upon their baptism , that their damnation would be the issue of denying it , we durst not be so desperately cruell as your selves , nor limit it to some one infant of an hundred , know sirs we are tender in our construction of the condition of all that die in such minority as you sprinkle in , before they have known or done either good or evil , and are well assured there 's no damnation to such , of what parents soever descended , and as little need of your rantism to their salvation ; but for you who are so seemingly compassionate and charitable to a few , how churlish are you to a hundred to one , whilst your cruel doctrine ( excepting such as are born of believers onely ) curses all the rest unavoidably to hell ? you talk much of your own charity to infants , and our cruelty ; but truly sirs i dare tell you that your tender mercies to that age of infancy are meer cruelty , so long as in your childish dotage on some , you send so many packing to perdition ; and as unchristian as our cruelty is , it hath more tender mercy in it to the whole infancy of the world , then all your christian charity doth yet amount to ; for as you prescribe it p. . 't is our rule indeed , but not your own , presumere unumquemque , bonum , nisi constet de malo , to presume and hope well , even the best things , and things that accompany salvation of all infants , as well as some , specially since it cannot appear that any of them have yet by any actual sin bard themselves , or deserv'd to be exempted from the general state of little children declared in scripture , which is a right to the kingdome of heaven : but your christian charity hath not carried you out so farre yet , as to hope and presume well of infidels infants , unbelievers infants , or any unrantized infants , though it cannot appear that any of these have by any actuall sinne more barr'd themselves , then the other , or more deserved to be exempted from that general state of little children declar'd in scripture then the infants of the best believers in the world . whether therefore we , who though we baptize no infants at all , nor see warrant in the word so to do , yet believe , and that not ungroundedly , nor as being more merciful then god shews himself to be to them , the salvation of all that die in infancy , or one who imagining as sillily as your selves , that no baptism , no salvation , should thereupon for pitty dispute against you limiters of gods grace , for the baptizing of all infants in the world , or your selves , who supposing the same , i. e. no hope to be had of their salvation to whom baptism is denied , have yet no more pitty in you , then to dispute for the baptism of believers infants onely , excluding all other infants from it ( in doctrine though not all in practise ) which are no less then an hundred to one , whereby not a moity onely but all , save a small moity of infants in the world , yea , in the very christian world , in which the most by far are unbelievers , are cut off at once from not the church on earth onely , but all share in the kingdom of heaven also , which of all these i say , viz : we , he , or you , are most cruel and desperate , and do most justly deserve the censure which you priests put upon us , p. . of your pamphlet of damning infants dying , contrary to evident testimony of scriptures ; and of damning innumerable innocents , such as infants of infidels are , whose right to the kingdome of heaven our saviour declared ; i propound it to be considered by your selves , and all other men at leasure ; at present , seeing this argument of yours makes also more against then for you , whose plea is for some infants against other , if your minor in it , viz. that denial of baptism to infants destroyes all hope of their salvation were true , as it is not , and speaks for a necessity of baptizing all infants , and not a few onely , i 'le syllogize it back upon you in much what your own terms , and so pass hence to the other . that opinion which destroyes all hopes of the salvation of many dying infants to one in the world , yea , in the very christian world too , is a most desperate , ungodly , uncharitable opinion . but the opinion of you priests , who deny all hopes of salvation to those to whom baptism is deni'd , and yet deny it doctrinally your selves to all unbelievers infants , which are many to one in the christian world , and dispute for its dispensation to believers infants onely , is such as destroyes all hope of the salvation of many dying infants to one , as well in the christian world as elsewhere , ergo , the opinion of you priests is a most cruel , desperate , ungodly , uncharitable opinion . another fine fancie , whereby you would fain juggle men into a belief that believers infants and these onely are to be baptized , runs thus , else ( say you ) the gospel covenant is worse then that under the law , forasmuch as then litle infants were circumcised : now sirs , when i come to meddle with this argument ore again i shall shew you plainly the imbecillity of it to prove the baptism of any infants at all , and the mel●ority of the gospel-covenant above that of the law , though infants be not now baptized as circumcised then ; at present i am to shew how , if it would prove any thing , it would prove the right of baptism to unbelievers infants , to whom you deny it , as well as to believers infants , whose baptism onely you seem to plead by it : i say suppositively that this is to make the gospel-covenant worse then that of the law , to deny baptism to infants now , sith they then admitted infants to circumcision , then the denial of it to believers infants , which is your own opinion , makes it worse then it was under the law , as well as the denial of it to infants of believers , for under the law the infants of unbelievers , which were many to one believer among the iews , is. . . were both de jure and de facto circumcised , as well as those of the believing iews , and so by your own rule ought the one to be baptized now as well as the other : again by the denial of baptism to the infants of unbelievers , not onely a moity but the most of christendome , as in which are by far more unbelievers infants then others , are cut off at once from baptism and membership , i conclude therefore thus . if that opinion which denies baptism to little children , makes the gospel-covenant worse then that under the law , then the opinion of those priests , who deny baptism to all unbelievers infants , whereby not a moity onely , but most of the christian world , in which the most are unbelievers , are cut off from being members of the church , makes the gospel-covenant worse then the law . but ( though not veraciter , yet secundum te o presbiter ) that opinion which denies baptism to little children , whereby a moity of the christian world is so cut off , makes the gospel-covenant worse then that under the law . ergo , thy opinion which denieth baptism to all unbelievers infants whereby more then a moity of infants is so cut off , makes it worse under the gospel then under the law . another curious conceit , whereby you undertake to clear the right of baptizing the infants of believing parents above others , is the being , and plain , yea more plain appearing of the holy spirit to be in these children then in others , or then in men , whom we baptize that make profession , which plain and sufficient appearance ( so you stile it p. ) of the spirits being in these children , is made ( say you ) many waies , first by these infants faith , secondly , by these infants holiness , thirdly by those eulogies that are given to these children in scriptures , not inferiour to those of the best saints . fourthly , by that scripture in special cor. . know you not that the spirit ( that christ you should have said ) is in you except ye be reprobates , lastly and mainly by these childrens non-appearing not to have the spirit , by these childrens not appearing to be evil ; by these infants not appearing by any actuall sin , to have barr'd themselves , or deserved to be exempted from the general state of little infants declared in scripture , by all which on pain and guilt of the breach of christian charity , whose rule is praesumere unumquenque bonum , nisi constet de malo , we are bound to believe that these infants of believing parents ( not of others ) have evidently enough the holy spirit : now sirs the lord help you to your eye-sight , if it be his wlll ; for i le be bold to say these seers are as blind as a beetle , what ever they seem to themselves to see , who by any thing at all that is here brought do discern the holy spirit to be in any infants , but this which is to the present purpose may be more safely asserted , that all this proves it not one jot more to be in the infants of believers , then it proves it to be in unbelievers infants , to whom you deny baptism as well as we , in plea , pretence , and prate at least , but not altogether in practise , for verily these have as much promise of the spirit as the other , those parents acts . being yet unbelievers while peter spake to them , saying , the promise is to you and your children , yea these have as much capacity for the spirit , as much manifestation of the spirit , as much capacity to believe , as much holyness , as much eulogie in scripture , for christ commends not the infants of some parents above the infants of others , but indefinitly the whole age of infancy alike , as little appearance yet of being reprobates , and so consequently as much appearance that christ is in them as in the other , as little appearance of evill , of actual sin , whereby to bar themselves , or deserve exemption from the generall state of little children declared in scripture , as is in the infants of believers , all which shall plainly appear out of hand , and much of it out of your own handy work , in my handling of your first argument in particular , which now i am return'd to again , i shall begin with , and so pass through it to all the rest , with which i must deal once over again as they ly in order , in your relation , and review : which first argument of yours is laid down in this form , viz. disputation . no man may forbid water to those that have received the holy ghost , acts . . but little children have the holy ghost . disproof . in which syllogism of yours howbeit i then did , and do still deny your minor as the main matter that is amiss , the falsity of which i shall discover , yet there is much fault to be found with your major , in that you repeat the words of peter but lamely , and by the halves out of that scripture whence you quote it , which you adulterate and abuse , unless you had inserted the whole sentence , the chief clause of which , viz [ as well as we ] which is most needfull to be exprest to the true proof of any ones right to baptism therfrom you whether more forgetfully or fearfully least the falsity of your minor should be the more discried by it i say not , do yet leave out alltogether : in the absence of which clause the falsity of your minor lies undiscerned , which upon the putting in thereof would appear ( if it be possible for it so to do ) more palpably false then now it doth , specially to every common capacity , whereupon very probably you left it out , for if your major had been thus , viz. no man may forbid water to those that have received the holy spirit , as peter and other adult disciples had , i. e. visibly and apparently unto others , by the acts , fruits , and effects of it , as the words [ as well as we ] do import , your minor then must have ran thus , viz. but little children have the holy spirit as well as peter and those adult disciples act. . . i. e. visibly , undoubtedly , apparently to others , and then it had been more apparently false in the eyes of all , for verily how perspicuous soever it is to you clergy men , who for your own ends , seemingly see what you see not , as well as sometimes see not what you see , and to your implicit criditors , that will seem to see that you see , whether it be to be seen or no , yet to such as are resolved to see with their own eies , and not yours , it is so far from being so visible , and apparent that infants have the holy spirit , as t was that peter and the rest had received it , that it is a thing invisible to you , and more then ever did or yet doth or ever will appear to any , but the blind , and the blind leaders of the blind , while the world stands , by all you have here stitcht up together to make it appear by ; the inefficacy of all which to any such purpose as you use it for , having thus hinted the crafty quoting , and cunning coining of your major , besides the sence of the scripture you fetch it out on , i shall ( god willing ) make sufficiently to appear in my examination of your minor ; the proof of which i now come to consider . as therefore to your minor , which is this , viz. little children have the holy ghost , i lay two evils to the charge of it , first a faultering in the terms , secondly , a falsity in the thing testified in it . first it s delivered in tam dubiis terminis , such a dubious and indefinite form of speech , viz. little children , not at all expressing what children , nor believers children distinctly from others , but all alike , which muddling expression of the subject , of whom you praedicate this that they have the holy spirit , is made well nigh every where else throughout your book , and possibly on purpose to shelter that absurdity from being too apparent , which unless you dream'd out this disputation , a more determinate delivery of your s●lves all along in these terms , viz. infants of believers , you foresaw would light upon it ; nevertheless , as indefinitely and implicitly as you set down your subject , you cannot hide the nakedness thereof let your meaning be what it will , for you must take it in some or other of these senses , viz. all little children have the spirit , or unbelievers little ones onely have the spirit , or believers little ones have the spirit , or some children have the spirit but we cannot tell which ; nor whether these more then those , or those more then these , the spirit being neither bound to all the children of believing parents , nor barred from any of the children of infidels : you cannot understand it of unbelievers children only , nor yet of all children , nor yet of unbelievers and believers children promiscuously , so as to say some of these and some of those , but in particular it cannot certainly be presumed which , though he that reads your eighteenth page , where you confess there can be no conclusion made , which have it , and which not , can hardly tell how to take you handsomely in a better sense , for then all men will say fie upon it , how miserably do these logicians labor all along besides their question , they propound the baptism of believers infants only , but proceed to prove the baptism of all children , or of unbelievers children onely , or at least of unbelievers children equally with the other ; they plead to have none but believers infants baptiz●d , yet affirm the holy spirit , the supposed being of which in these infants is the main ground on which they would have these only baptized , to be in all infants , at least in other infants ( for ought they know ) as well as these ; ye● even in those infants , even infidels infants , whom yet they would not have baptiz'd , so partial and cruel are they to these , though the denial of baptism to poor infants ( in their own opinion ) destroies all hope of their salvation : but if you take it for little infants of believers only , concerning which only the question was stated , then every wise man will wound you as much on the other hand , and say thus how miserably do these men fumble about their business , both proving and practising more then themselves believe to be the truth ; they assert infants of believers only have the holy spirit , and undertake to prove it in contradistinction to other infants , yet produce nothing more towards the proof of it , then what tends , if it do tend indeed to such a purpose , to prove it to be in all infants as well as those , how egregiously do these priests gull and cheat their people , they profess the holy spirit to be in no infants , save those onely that are born of believing parents , and that these onely are thereupon to be baptized , and yet practise ( another thing under the name of ) baptism to unbelievers infants in their parishes , whom they truly judge not to have the spirit , in common with those whom as blindly they judge to have it , i. e. not the seed of true believers only , but the seed of true and apparent unbelievers also . the second fault i charge upon your minor proposition is an utter falseness in the matter affirm'd in 't , for take the term little children for what little ones you please , these or those , t is utter untruth to utter any such thing as that infancy have the holy spirit , much more that believers infants have it more then others , neither is there any strength in any one thing you have presented the world with to prove either one of these , or yet the other : and howbeit i say suppositively , that all appear to have it , if any at all , by what you have here produc'd in proof on 't , yet i 'le positively prove , and partly by way of answer to your own argument , that neither ●ll infants have the holy spirit , nor any at all , in such non-age as you falsly supposing they have it , do thereupon baptize in : to this end i would i wist what you mean by the holy ghost ( as you call him , but i all along the holy spirit ) i am in doubt you scarcely well know your selves , or else you would not predicate him to be in infants , in such wise as here you do ; i 'le indeavour therefore to search out what your meaning may be , by a serious survey of the senses which the holy spirit seems to be taken in in the word , of which i am confident , if you know what you mean , you must mean one . the spirit which is but one and the self same in substance where ere he is , is yet spoken of in scripture in two , and but two different senses in general , so far as i find , and that answerably to two different offices , which he exercises towards two different kinds of men in the world , viz. godly and wicked , believers and unbelievers , saints and sinners ; these two several offices , which that one holy spirit is found in towards these severall sorts of men , are either more common or more special , general or peculiar ; the common or general office of the spirit is to convince and inlighten , draw , move , perswade , strive with men to bring them into the way of obedience to god , and of their own good , and this he executes universally to all men , and in this sense is in all men and women , good and bad , godly and wicked , saints and sinners , jews and gentiles , christians and heathens , but not in the one day old infants of any of all these ( that i know of . ) the will of man , even every man , so soon as he comes to such capacity as to be able to discern between good and evill , stands ever after , even all the daies of his life , between two wooers that sollicit him , and seek to win him to their service , and which ere wins him ( finally ) to its service will everlastingly and accordingly reward him with life or death rom. . . to v. . gal. . , . and these two are mans flesh , and gods spirit , which are evermore lusting in him one against the other , and between them perswading him ( each in their kind ) in this sense he is in the blindest heathens that breath on earth ( natural fools and infants onely excepted , of whom as far as nothing is required , because nothing revealed , so far they have nothing to answer for ) yea the very gentiles which have not any law in an outward letter , as we have , are said rom. . , . to be a law unto themselves , and to shew the work of the law written in their hearts ▪ and to have their conscience and thoughts witnessing within , accusing and excusing one another , which can be no other ( though commonly call'd the light of nature ) then a light from god and christ , who is said to enlighten every man that cometh into the world , and so doth more or less , even such as never yet knew his person ( as the sun sends some light in some corners of the earth , where the body of it is not at all discerned ) yea the very spirit of god shining and striving in them , answerably to which gods spirit is said gen. . to strive with man , even those evill men of the old world that rebell'd against it , by which spirit christ himself is said to have preacht to those disobedient persons , while the long suffering of god waited on them , in the da●es of noah , whose outward ministry he also used , while the ark was preparing pet. . , , the same spirit is said ioh. . to be sent to convince the very world of sin , righteousness and judgement , yea the stift-necked and uncircumcised iews both in heart and ears are said act. . alwayes to have resisted the holy spirit , which they could not have done had he not wrestled with them , yea within them , thus farre all men have him , even ill men , the worst in the world , at some time or other , by which spirit the son of righteousness is the light of the microcosme , or inward world of mans heart , as the sun , by the beams that stream from the body of it , is the light of the megacosme , or outward universe . in this sense i cannot conceive you take the holy spirit here , or if you do , you mistake not a little , if you say infants have him thus , for howbeit , in these ordinary wayes of his acting all persons male and female may be said to have him at the years of capacity to distinguish , yet infants of one day old have him not in this sense , or if they had 't will make no more for the baptism of them then of all men and women in the world , much less have they him in those special waies of acting , in which he acts in the saints , till at least they come to be so far past that minority as to be sensible of his acting towards them . which speciall and more eminent acts and offices of the spirit are on this wise , viz. special assisting in doing good , when by common strivings with them men are perswaded , and prevaild with to set about it , and when in his first motions he is obey'd ; also comforting , supporting in and under troubles , trials , sufferings , temptations , persecutions , which will assuredly light on those that do obey him , assuring souls more and more clearly of gods love and favour , witnessing to their spirits that they are the children of god , enabling them with boldness to cry abba father , sealing them up to the day of redemption , confirming them as an earnest in their present confidence of a future inheritance , kingdom , glory , revealing to them more plainly the things freely given of god , so that they rejoice mainly therein , whilst others to whom these things are foolishness , rejoice in the things of the world , lusts of the flesh , and of the eye , and of the pride of life ; lusting strongly against the flesh , delivering from the law of sin and death , warring against the law of the members effectually , which else would carry captive to the law of sin ; mortifying the deeds of the body , teaching all things , leading into all truth , guiding and gifting persons for the churches service severally as he will , bringing all things to remembrance which christ spake , which are subject to be forgotten , manifesting the father , the son , and many more things to them that love christ and keep his commandements , which he will not manifest to the world , nor to any of those in it that do not , and other such like precious performances , in all which he officiates peculiarly towards the saints onely that submit to him , not wicked resisters of him ; to which saints , or true disciples of the lord jesus , he was promised to be given under the gospel in a fuller measure then in former daies , and sent to be their comforter ( whilst to such as entertain him not , but a bare convincer ) in which respect he is call'd the spirit of promise , as being promised in this sense to all those that obey christ , that believe , repent , and are baptized into his name for remission of sins , and ask the father for him ; and to be set as by office to minister in way of succor to the mournful spouse in the bride-grooms absence , to help poor soules that give up themselves to be lead by him , and accordingly was , is and ever shall be given to those that do not grieve , resist and quench him , and that are found observing all things that ever christ commanded , non-observation of which disingages christ of his promise , so that it failes not , though he be not with men that name themselves his church , for ages and generations together : in which senses he is not at ▪ all in infants in their infancy , neither doth he at all , guid , or provoke them , how far forth soever he may guard and protect them , till they come to such capacity as to have good or evil fasten'd on them by perswasion , nor doth he any of the aforenamed good offices for infants , in whom there 's yet no need they should be done , nor doth he delight ordinarily to be where either he must be idle ( as he must in infants of one , two or three daies old ) or ( unless he work miraculously ) imployed altogether to no purpose . as to that of iohn concerning whom 't was promised he should be filled with the holy spirit from the womb , besides the singularness and extraordinariness of the case , which renders it unfit for you to argue from , who deny that such examples are to be drawn in as an ordinary rule to judge by , and confess that ex particulari non est syllogizari ; i add moreover , that there 's no necessity for such an im●mediate acceptation of that word [ from the womb ] as to make the sense of it thus , viz. [ in the very moment of his birth ] for it may well be taken , as elswhere the same phrase must be , viz , [ so soon as ever he should be capable to receive it , and be assisted and guided by it ] which might be in his tender years , but was not i believe in such meer non-age as you wot off , thus the wicked are said , psal. . . ab alinare se ab utero , to estrange themselves from god from the womb , to go astray as soon as they be born , speaking lies , stopping their ears , not hark-ring to the voice of the charmer , which terms do all denote actuall sinne , by which your selves confess infants cannot bar themselves p. . or deserve exemption ; it must therefore be understood thus , viz. so soon as ever they are capable to do this or that , to take the right away or the wrong , or to know and act either good or evil . i assert therefore once again , that the spirit in this second sense is not in infants in their infancy , nor know i in what sense they can be said to have him , as to have right thereby to baptism , unless you can assign me some more senses out of scripture , which if you can do , i shall tell you what to say to them , and as i cannot find they have the holy spirit in them , so neither find i any promise of the holy spirit in such non-age as you wot of , if by the spirit you mean the spirit of promise , as you must if you plead a right to baptism there from ; and if you should refer me to act. . i find there no more made to any then to all ; indeed it s said the promise is to you and your children , but i advise you to consider , first , that t is not said to you and your infants , neither are children and infants all one in signification , the one expressing the age or rather non-age , the other the relation to the parents , of whom they are born : e all infants are children of some parents or other , but all children are not infants : infants are at least such younglings as cannot speak , but children may be children , in respect of their parents , though the parents be eighty years old and the children sixty , so that the promise of the spirit might be to them and their children too , i. e. their posterity , as well as to the gentiles that were yet far off , in both time and place , and their posterity to all succeeding generations , and be made good too on the same terms , upon which , and the same time in which it s made good to the parents themselves , viz. the terms of faith , and the time of their believing , and yet all this while not be made to them and their infants , as in their infancy : moreover it appears most evidently that these parents were yet in unbelief , and bare inquiry after what they should do , having acted neither faith nor repentance as yet , when peter said thus to them , repent and be baptized , and ye shall receive the holy spirit ; for the promise is to you and your children ; therefore it may seem rather to be to unbeleevers children by that place , then unto belieuers children ; but in very deed t is to all men and their children throughout the world , as they and their children should believe , repent , receive the word gladly , come to god at his call , and that in all ages and places to the worlds end ; and as children of unbelievers have as much promise of the holy spirit , so as much manifestation of it as the other , and that is just none at all . but say you these appear to have it first by their faith , i. e. as other mens infants do not , by their faith : sirs this is no demonstrative argument i am sure , that they have the spirit , for demonstratio est ex notioribus conclusione , but this is ignotum per ignotius , or at least per aeque ignotum for now you have much more ado by something else ( & hoc aliquid nihil est ) to demonstrate to us that they have faith , then before you had to demonstrate them to have the spirits ; yea this will puzzle you the more , by how much the last error is worse than the first , and more confuted in other places by your selves , however we will consider your argument and supposing still that you speak of the right subject , viz. infants of believing parents ; we will cast this your enthusiasm into this enthememe . disputation . little children of believing parents have faith . ergo little children of believing parents have the holy spirit . disproof . first i deny your consequence , secondly your antecedent , as both stark false , and that is as much as can well be false in an enthememe . first , i shall be bold to tell you sirs , that your argumentation from present faith , to a present having the holy spirit is most invalid , and unconsonant to the scripture , for if by the holy spirit you mean ( as you must else it serves not your turn at all to the proof of baptism ) the spirit in that special sense , viz. the holy spirit of promise ; the consequen●e from faith to the having of it will not universally hold true , for as much as faith not only must be in time before it ( unless god be better than his word , and that he may be when he pleases , and so he was act. , . where the spirit by anticipation was given out before obedience at least in baptism , which yet by promise cannot be expected till after it ast. . . ) i say not only must be before it , but also may be a pretty while without it ; this will be counted the mad mans mad divinity with you ( i doubt not ) but i le clear it to the dimmest divine of you all , yea see if the whole body of the testament of christ doth not tell you plainly , that as faith must be before it in an ordinary way , before we have warrant to expect it , so it may for some while be without it , and therefore cannot prove the holy spirit to be alwaies where it is ; for the spirit of promise is given after faith , if given according to the promise , and so long after it too now and then , as is enough to make it undeniably appear , that the having of faith , is no proof of ones present having the holy spirit : among sundry others let those scriptures be seriously searcht into , ephes. . . in whom after ye believed ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise , act. . . have ye received the holy spirit since ye believed ? they answered no , also act. . . when they believed , &c. they were baptized , &c. but verse . the holy spirit was fallen upon none of them , only they were baptized , act. . . the holy spirit which god hath given to them that obey him : yea the gift of the spirit though gods ordinary way so limits not himself but that he may give it extraordinarily before act. . yet is it neither promised nor ( as by promise ) to be expected but upon obedience in faith , repentance , turning to god , baptism and prayer pro. . . act. . . luke . . iohn . . . the places are so plain to the purpose , that i 'le not disparage your judgement so much , as like a fresh man to stand to frame formal syllogisms to you out of them : to conclude then as to your consequence , had you argued from the holy spirit , in the special sence , in which you take it to faith , it might have past for me without correction , but ●ith you began at the wrong end of your business , i beseech you take it for a warning sirs and begin again . secondly , i deny your antecedent , which if your consequence were never so true , is most false , for infants of believers have not faith ; if they have unbelievers infants ( for ought you make appear to the contrary ) have as much , and so ( though that grieve and go against you , and cannot be owned so kindly by you in opinion as it is in practise ) must ( de jure ) be baptized , i. e. humano ( for divino neither may ) as well as they ; but in truth as it will not appear by what you here bring to evince it by , that faith is in either , so i trust it will appear by what shall be said in disproof of your proofs , that faith can possibly he in neither . disputation . you prove infants of believing parents to have faith two waies ( as you say ) first by express texts of scripture , secondly arguments of consequence . your express scripture is mat. . . whosoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : in the third verse ( say you ) they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whence upon my confession and concession that in ver . . and . is meant one in respect of age , because it is said there he called to him a little child and who so humbleth himself as this little child , you therfore argue that little ones in respect of age are meant in that verse also . disproof . sirs , let me ask you two questions , first are you sure these are infants indeed ? secondly , are you sure they were infants of believers of whom christ saies , whoever offends one of these little ones that believe in me ? for my part if there were any probability that he spake of little ones literally taken at all , as i know none there is , yet i am sure there is none that they were the little ones of believers he then spake of , in contradistinction to the infants of unbelievers ; for t is not specified either one way or other , and is most probable that the child he occasionally called to him might be some unbelievers child , or other , the number of believers , where e're he came , being few , and not comparable to them that believed not , but what e're that child was yet this is much more then probable , that by the term these lit●le ones in v. . he means not infants but his disciples , whom , having first perswaded them to become such as that little one , or as little children in such things as are generally found in them , viz. plainness of spirit , humbleness , innocency , freedome from malice , in which respects david saies psal. . . my soul is as a weaned child , from that analogy that was and ought to be between little ones and them , he here bespeaks ( as it was very ordinary for him to do ) under the title of [ these little ones ] besides the plurall number he speaks in implies he spake of such of whom there was a plurallity then present , for saith he these little ones , pointing as it were to more then one , but there was but one little one then in the midst of them of whom when christ speaks , he speaks , in the singular , saying this little child : as to the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used in the third verse , whence you argue that they were children in age spoken of by our savior , by which you seem much to strenghthen your selves in your dabling of infants foreheads , i must tell you that of the two you more marre than make your matter , by so much as mentioning of it in this case , for first 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though by some philosophicall or poeticall license it may possibly be used to signify [ infantem ] some youngling of three or four years old , as ( though beginning to prattle ) can scarcely speak plain , yet cannot so much as poetically , much less properly signifie infantissimum , such a one day old infant as you talk of , nor such a six dayes old suckling as you sprinkle , but properly it expresses at least one capable of erudition , and how beit it hath not its derivation from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as setting the cart before the horse , i say not ungraciously , for many a gracious man is no good grecian , but ungraecianly you greek it out , yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath its derivation from it , for to say the truth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the primitive of the two , and though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be the diminutive of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , puer , which is the primitive to them both , yet this is enough to shew that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be used , and yet not infancy meant by it neither , but childhood , which is a distinct age from the other , for there 's difference between infantiam and pueritiam , as inter adolescentiam & inventutem , all which have their severall and proper periods , yea in truth it signifies child-ship , at least capable to be taught , not such meer babeship as you baptize . secondly if it did , yet what 's that to your present purpose , which is to prove by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the third , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the fourth verse , that christ means the very same viz. little ones literally taken in the sixth ? as much as if you had said nothing at all , for verily as it follows not that he doth , so its evident enough that he doth not mean the very same in this phrase , verse six , viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whom he means in the third by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : for who doubts on 't but that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the third verse , natural little children are to be understood , the intent of christ there , being to shew how his disciples must be like them , if ever they enter into heaven ? but in verse six owning his disciples , to whom he tells that they must be such , as already such in some measure as they should be , he speaks of them under that very same name and notion ; and this was no unusual term for christ to denominate disciples , nor yet for them to denominate one another by ; for besides that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it self is the title by which , though not here , yet elsewhere all believers and new converts to the truth are often stiled by , yea and your word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. sucklings too , which you make so much of a little below , yea and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the very diminutive of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a child , which word you make such a matter of when you find it acts . . in proof of all which consult iohn . . gal. . iohn . . , . . . . . . : . also pet. . . even this very phrase that is here used viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is also used by christ himself to his disciples mat. . . and a place wherein as no little infant ( as here ) was apparently present , so compare it with the two foregoing verses , in which the same , who are call'd little ones and disciples , ver . . are stiled prophets , righteous men , and i 'le say you sell your selves to stark so●tishness , if you expound it of any other then of such , as are ( from disco their having learn'd the truth , as infants yet have not ) stiled christs scholars or disciples . but above all , the most undoubted reason of all the rest , which to me doth , and may to any one most plainly clear it , that he means not infants is even this very expression , viz. [ which believe in me ] whereby he denotes and denominates his disciples distinctly enough from all little infants , who are in no wise capable to do that he here ascribes to the other , i. e. to believe in christ , for this infants being utterly uncapable to do , it shews plainly that he means not them : whereas mr. willcock , whose argument this was , and whose urging it ore again in print if this be , it shall not trouble my conscience , if it do not his own , whereas he i say argues thus , viz. [ these little ones which believe in me ] therefore infants do believe , i argue quite contrary from the same scripture thus , viz. these of whom christ speaks mat. . . did believe , therefore they could not be infants , who cannot possibly believe . and if you ask me how i prove it that infants cannot believe , i might answer out of the mouth of paul , rom. . . how can they believe on him of whom they have not heard ? but sith you have a reply to this , p. i le onely hint that here , and handle it further , as i have occasion given me to do by your answering it , as our objection , when i come to review your review , and at present prove the matter out of mr. willcocks own mouth , that infants cannot believe , for to believe is to act faith , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 docere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 legere , &c , ) are speeches that point at the act and not the habit or faculty , denoting actum secundum , non primum : this mr. willcock knows as well as i , yet the same mr. willcock , page . asserts as plainly and truely , so clearly to the contradiction of himself in this place , that infants have not the exercise and fruit of faith , have it not in actu secundo &c. but i spare him , in hope that he will consider it of himself , verbum sat sapienti : but suppose it were meant of infants literally ; yet however it could be but a prosopopeia , i. e. a figure whereby that is attributed to certain creatures , as done by them , which yet is neither really done , nor so much as capable to be done by them at all , by which figure that is sometimes attributed not only to infants , but even to but sensible and bruit , and sometimes to insensible things , which can properly be done by none possibly but men at years , as not onely david is said to be made to hope in god while he hung upon the breasts , because god indeed was , even then the god that did defend him , yea as well in as from his mothers womb , though he was never sensible of , nor acquainted with it , so as to hope it in the womb , but the whole creation also figuratively , rom. . , , , . is said to groan , wait , hope , desire , expect deliverance , because it stands in need of it , from the bondage of corruption , and god also hath determined the time wherein by christ to redeem it , though many creatures under the curse are no more sensible of it , or capable to groan , then the fruitless fig tree christ cursed , and the ox , ass , horse , sheep , and sensible creatures that may groan are capable to hope for , and expect such a glorious day as shall once come to the creation : thus figuratively indeed infants may be said to believe on christ because they have need of his protection , and all the help they then have comes from him also , though in infancy they knew it not , nor him , so as actually to hope and trust in him for it , or properly to believe in his name , even more then inanimate creatures in the other case , this is the first way , whereby you profess to prove infants of believing parent onely ( if you speak to your proposed purpose ) to have faith , which how weak it is the weakest eye may discern it , that is not disposed to be blind , and the second is like unto it , which is as followeth , by two arguments of inconsequence . disputation . children of the iews had faith , ergo , children of believing parents now . the antecedent is proved thus , viz. god himself did witness that the children of the jews had faith , by setting to his seal , which was circumcision , called by the apostle the seal of righteousness of faith . disproof . there 's but two things to be own'd or disow'd at all in this piece of proof , as also in the former , viz. the argument and the antecedent , and i 'le deny him to be a seer that sees not good ground whereon to deny them both , o fine ! o fine ! o fy : these you call your arguments of consequence , but ( saying that you say so ) i am verily perswaded the verieft implicit simpleton that ever saluted the university , or sware allegeance to your crown and dignity , or was ever implicitly canonized into the obedience of your faith , will never see them so to be , when ceasing to see through your eyes , he shall come once to behold things with his own , for really they are the most false , absurd and inconsequent , that ever i saw with mine . sirs , give me leave to make an answer by these ensuing interrogatories , and i 'le expect your answer to them again ; had the children of the iews faith ? and did god himself witness that they had it , by setting circumcision to them as his seal of it , i. e. ( for that 's the sense in which you take the word seal ) to assure men that they had it ? and is it the consequent that the children of believing parents have it now ? let me then ask you . first do you conclude that all the children of believing parents have it now ? that i think for shame you will not say , sith every experience witnesses the contrary ; or that some believers children have it now , therefore all believers children are to be baptized ? and if so , that is as silly an inference , as if you had argued thus , viz. some people believe therefore all must be baptized , secondly , had the jews children faith ? first i wonder how they came by it , sith the word saies faith comes by hearing , and how can there be believing on him of whom they have not heard ? and how can they hear without a preacher ? and how can they preach except they be sent ? and how can they be sent to preach to infants that understand not what is said ? except you say ( as you are fain to do , not for want of blindness p. . ) that infants have an hearing , and the spirit works upon them miraculously , and yet not extraordinarily neither , but in that ordinary way as he doth on men , in the conversion of whom you say the spirits working is but ordinary , and yet miraculous too , which popish bull deserves well to be baited , but i le fotbear to fall upon it , till i meet it in its proper place in the review . secondly , when had they it begotten in them ? in the womb ? or if after birth , on what day on the st , d , d , th , th , th , th , or th ? for on some of these they received it , if on the th day they were ( as you say they were ) circumcised in token that they had it ; but i muse , and am yet to learn on which , and so are your selves too i believe , for all your confidence in asserting it . thirdly , was circumcision gods witness , yea gods seal to assure men of thus much , that those children to whom it was set had faith ? first , risum teneatis amici ? did you ever read or hear that circumcision was set to infants to this end , viz. to testifie to the world that they had faith ? was it set to ishmael as gods witness that ishmael had faith ? was it set to esau as gods witness that esau had faith , when god who would not witness a ly , knew that neither the one of these had it , nor yet the other ? unless they lost it again , which sure you will not say ; for shame leave such sorry shuffles , are your masters in israel and know not this that circumcision was set to the iews children , not to shew others that they did believe , but as a permanent sign thereof to shew them when they should be at years to take notice of it by sight ( as of that transient , unseen sign of sprinkling in infancy they cannot do ) what things they then should believe , viz. christ to come of abraham after the flesh , and circumcision of their hearts by him , &c. was it ever set under this notion as a seal of faith to any person in the world save to abrahams proper person only , to whom too t was a seal not so much to witness , or assure men that he had faith , as to honor that faith , that more evidently , and eminently then ordinary he had before , with that famous title i. e. the father of the faithful ? therefore circumcision as given to abraham in rom. . . is not said to be the seal of the righteousness of faith ( as you corruptly rehearse the words leaving out the residue of the verse , which makes them relate to abraham only , as if it had stood as a seal in such a sense to all abrahams posterity ) but a seal of the righteousness of the faith , i. e. that famous faith which he himself had , and to this end that he might be ( as none of his meer fleshly seed ever were ) the father of all them that believe . secondly , if circumcision were gods witness that these infants , to whom it was dispensed , had faith , then certainly baptism , which with you at least is of such analogy and identity with circumcision , that it hath the same subjects and significations , must also with you be gods witness to others that those infants to whom it is dispensed have faith also , and if so then i must make bold to ask you two things : first , is not this round about our coal fire , to prove two things no otherwise then one by another ? for when you prove that children are to be circumcised , or baptized ( which with you is all one , who falsly call baptism ( as paul doth not in col. . for he means another thing by that phrase , viz. that of the heart ) the circumcision without hands ) i say when you prove , that children are to be circumcised either one way or other in answer to our why ? you say because they have faith and thereby right to the covenant , and the seals of it ; but when you come to prove that children have faith , which we deny , you say t is clear because they have circumcision , and baptism , which are gods witnesses , seals or evidences to us that they have it : this is not idem per idem , the same by the same , that is too effeminate a probation , but t is eadem inter se , or per se invicem , the same things reciprocally by each other , and well nigh as womanish as that ; for whether is it better to say they have it because they have it , or to say it is apparent they have this because they have that , and that being as much doubted to clear it thus , viz. it is apparent they have that because they have this ; and if these two viz. faith and baptism , faith and circumcision , did ponere se invicem , so that one could not possibly be without the other , they might the better probare se invicem , but 't is not so , for as faith may possibly be where neither circumcision nor baptism are dispensed , witness the thief on the cross , so ther 's neither of them but may be , and is too too much dispensed where faith is not . secondly , let me ask you , is gods witness , gods testimony true , or is it false ? for say you god himself did witness it , that the children of the iews , i. e. in infancy had faith : false you dare not say it is , nay you do not , but rather p. . that his testimony as to the truth of it , is to be preferred before mans , yea i say let god be true , and every man a liar , but if it be true , how then appears it to be so , if your testimony be not false ? how then came it to pass that the most of the iews and their children sucessively in all generations had not faith when they came to years ? for it 's most evident that most of them were unbelievers , and therfore they could not enter into their rest ; but their carcasses fell in the wilderness ; i know but two shifts you can make , and 't is much at a pass which you take , for you will contradict your selves in either of them both , for surely , either they fell from that grace ( as those infants do also whom you sprinkle from that faith which ( as you say and seem to see ) once they had ) and this flatly contradicts your own doctrine of impossibility of falling from faith , or else they never had any such faith as you say they had in infancy , and then either gods witness of such a thing must be a lye , which what horrid heresie were it to think , and abominable blasphemy once to utter ? or else god by circumcision never witnessed such a thing , and that flatly contradicts your antecedent , and so your selves will be found false witnesses of god , because you have testified of him that he himself did witness by circumcision , that the children of the iews had faith , when he never witnessed it at all . fourthly , the fourrh grand interrrgatory is this . sirs , what children of the jews had faith in their infancy witnessed by circumcision , were they the children of the believing or unbelieving jews ? for you are shy me thinks of expressing too often which you mean , and proceeed as indefinitely , that you may deceive as indiscernably as you can , if of the unbelievers then is not this goodly disputing , viz. children of the unbelieving iews had faith and circumcision . ergo , children of believing gentiles onely have faith , and must have baptism . secondly , is not this goodly doing ( if 't were your practise as strictly as 't is your plea ) to baptize onely believers children now upon their own faith , because unbelievers children of old were circumcised upon their own faith ? this straitens the grace of god under the gospel , in comparison of the largness of it under the law , for then all children of unbeliving iewes were circumcised by his appointment , as well as the infants of believers ; answerably to which , if you go by that rule , you should conclude thus , uiz . all the gentiles children should be baptized now , as well those of unbelievers as believers ' , but you turn out unbelievers children from the priviledge , that unbelievers children had before , but if you say children of believing jews onely had faith then , therefore of believing parents now , then first how doth your argument and proof drawn from gods witnessing by circumcision that there was faith in the infants , hold any more to the proof of it in believers infants , then in unbelievers , for he set circumcision to the infants of the wicked and unbelievers among the jews as well as of the godly and believers . secondly , how doth it appear at all that godly and believing parents children then had faith more usually then children of ungodly parents ? when good ely had two vile sonnes hophni and phineas , good david , wicked absolom , good solomon , wicked rehoboam , good iehosaphat , wicked ioram , good iosiah , wicked iechoniah and his brethren , &c. when contrariwise wicked ahaz begat good hezekiah , wicked abia , good asa , wicked amon , good iosia , , which shews that faith is not entail'd from parents to posterity as you would make it . thus i have spoken to your first way , wherby you prove infants of believers to have the spirit , and thereupon right to baptism , viz. their faith , and to a first and second of those whereby you seem to prove them to believe , there is yet a third way whereby you would make men believe that infants of believers do believe , viz. their iustification , without which there is no salvation , but because that 's not inserted here at all , but toward the end of the disputation , and is prosecuted most vigorously in your review , i will suspend the prosecution of that head , till i come thither , and proceed next to a consideration of the second , third , fourth and fifth ways , as they lie in order , whereby you would prove believers infants to have the spirit , above the infants of unbelievers . disputation . the next thing whereby you offer proof of it that infants of believing parents onely ( remember these still are the subject on which you pretend to proceed , and predicate that these denominants , viz. the spirit , faith , holiness &c. ) that these i say have the holy spirit , is their holiness from whence you confess here that there was no argument taken , that is to say , 't was not proved , and yet a little above p. . in the fourth and fifth line of this sum , aliâs some of your disputation , you as blindly as boldly bolt it out , that it was proved by their holiness : the apocaliptical beast that was and yet was not , scarcely seems more apocriphal to you , then this was and was not of yours seems apoplexical , or brainsick to me : this true-ly might have been rankt among the rest in your true account , but to let it pass thus , this cannot but be granted for a truth , that you made as if you would have proved it by their holiness , that infants of believers have the spirit , but did not , because i wisht you ( but ( fool that i was ) i have been sorry since that i did at all wish you ) to forbear it , for as i was not affraid to give way to your proof then ( save onely that i was well aware you would but trifle ) so since i marvelled a little more upon the matter , i have found it of more facillity to prove infants-sprinkling by the popes holiness , whose mandamus it is , then by any holiness of their own . disproof . i le muse a little if you will , now i am upon it , by what kind of holiness of theirs you would have prov'd it : i deny not but there may be in infants of believers a kind of holiness , yet there 's neither that kind by which you commonly conceive you can , nor any kind by which you possibly can evince the verity of such a practise . the holiness you mean certainly is either matrimonial , ceremonial , or morall morall holiness , i cal that which is opposed to sin , moral wickedness and profaness of heart and life , but sure you do not mean this holiness , or if you do , what do you mean by it ? do you mean some inward quality , inherent habit or principle of grace and spiritualness , as whereby these infants of believers may be denominated as the true saints or holy ones of god are viz. partakers of his holiness as heb. , . and holy i. e. qualitative , though not quantitative , in the same manner , though not the same measure ? and if you do , is this habit innat●s , acquisitus or infusus , by birth , or begotten in them by frequent acts of holiness , or infused from above ? for one of these three it must be , if it be an habit . but 't is not the first , for secundum te at least ( o priest-hood ) they are born in sin , and are by birth this way as unholy as any others . not the second , for secundum te again , by your own confession these are not capable in infancy to act either good or evill , yea instruction of the understanding must go before any actings be , yea weigh but your own expressions a little p. . of your pamphlet where you tell us thus much in plain terms , that instruction of the understanding in matter of faith in some sort , must go before any act of faith can be discovered ; to which i fully assent , and add , that instruction of the understanding in matter of holiness , ( and this infants are not capable of ) must go before any act of holyness can be discovered . if you say the third , then pray tell me three things . first , how it s discovered to you , or how you know that theirs such a habit of holyness infused into believers infants in that non-age whereupon you build your boldness to baptize them ? for by the fruits only it is that we can know persons mat. . . to be good or evil , and you confess pag. . that infants have not the exercise and fruit of faith , and commonly in your pulpits that holiness is the fruit of faith , and iames challenges any one if he can to shew him his faith without his works , iam. . . yea you say plainly that the seed of faith sown after discovers it self when the season comes p. . and that no judgement of science can be passed , till the acts themselves be seen , and examined for a posteriore only ( mark that word only ) the discovery of habits is made , these are your own sayings in your review p. . whereby you plainly unsay all that here you say of believers infants faith , and holiness , for if it be so that the discovery of these habits is only a posteriore , i. e. by the fruits , exercises , and acts , and that infants have not these , then how i trow have you the discovery of it at all , before the season , that these habits are in them ? yet such is your shameless inconsiderateness , and custome of contradicting your selves , that you pretend to a discovery of it so farr as to attempt here the discovery of it to the world : will you allwaies feed the world thus with your own groundless fancies , and fashion it in religion according to your own careless conception ? will you alwaies affirm things so to be , and venture to make them known , and yet confess they cannot be known too ? o curas hominum o quantum est in rebus mane ! secondly , pray tell me how this holiness , which you assert to be in believers infants whereby you would make it appear that they have the spirit , doth appear any more to be in them then the spirit it self ; are they not both a like dark to us , and unapparent ? yet you profess to prove the one of these by the other thus , they have holyness therefore the spirit , and if to one querying , how you know they have holiness ? you should say thus they have the spirit , therefore holyness , 't were a proof no more impregnant then the other , for you could do more then leave the people , whose blind guides you are , as much in the dark as before , by this , and by that i am sure you do no less : when men fall to proving ( as you have done hitherto all along in your disputation ) things undiscernable by things as undiscernable as the other , and things that appear not at all , by things that appear no more at all then those they would make to appear by them , nescio an anticyram ratio illis destinet omnem . thirdly , i pray tell me how this holiness appears to be in believers infants whom thereupon you would have to be baptized , more then in unbelievers infants whom ( though in your practise you promiscuously admit them with the other yet ) in your proofs you except from your baptism ? is there any more specimen or shew of holiness in them then in these ? the best spectacles that ever i beheld with , could never behold it ; is there any more capableness of such an infusion of holiness , or of having such an habit infused ? is there any experience of it when they come to years that the infants of believers had this holiness in their infancy and unbelievers infants had not ? if so , how is it that when they are grown , the children of unbelievers have holiness very often , when as oft the other prove wicked , and have not ? ( have a care of your shinnes ( good now ) by all means ) do the children of believers fall from it ? is there any promise of god , whereby he stands ingaged to infuse holiness into these infants in infancy , when he will not infuse it into the other ? and if so , how it is it that we must necessarily hold ( for so you say your own selves in your review p. . ) that god is not bound ( for if he hath promised it as you say he hath acts . then he is bound ) to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor barred from working it in any of the children of infidels ? is there any promptness to acts of holiness , whence only you can clearly argue ad positionem habitus , in that infancy in which you sprinkle them , in believers infants than in the other ? all your skill in physiogmony can never find it : or can you argue ad negationem habitus , to no holiness in an infidels infant more then in anothers ? your very selves acknowledge you cannot : if not , why more i wonder ad negationem spiritus ? why more ad negationem baptismi ? why more ad negationem nugationis istius vestrae , viz. your trivial new way , or rather no way of baptism ? to which if it were baptism indeed , you must admit , if not all , then not at all in time of infancy , or else your absurdities are unsuffrable , sirs suffer me to come cross to you , and hit you home with your own cross interrogatory p. . are those infants of infidels , between whom , and those of believers , you objectors will admit no comparison , inclinable to acts of holiness ? or not ? if the former , it presupposes then that infidels infants have the habit also as much as the other , and so the working in them , and those born of believing parents may be one , and so their holiness , and faith , and spiritualness , and baptism be one too , which all your disputation doth deny ; if the latter , i freely confess these are not inclinable , nor yet the other neither . these premised the answer is in your own very words pag. . that unless it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit , i. e. of faith , holiness , what have not , the working of the spirit is not known to us , he is neither bound nor barr'd there can be no conclusion made , and therefore quis nisi mentis inops &c. how justly may they be concluded by themselves , as well as by others , to have hand plus cerebri quam cimax sanguinis , and no more understanding then those whose right eye is utterly darkned , who premising these sentences themselves , do for all that make this conclusion , viz. that these infants have faith , holiness , the spirit , and thereby right to baptism above all others . or secondly sirs do ye mean by it some negative holiness , consisting in their being without sin , and having yet no wickedness , and prophanness , the thing , which ( and more properly by farr ) you stile innocency in the next words ? though yet o curious criss-cross you will not hold them guiltless neither : if so , for my part i give you in my assent to it , that infants are innocent , but i cannot help it if it do you no good in your cause , for first are infants of believers any more innocent in time of infancie then the rest ? how so ? not by birth , for they are all alike born in sin , secundum ●e , not in life , for it cannot appear that the one have more blurr'd themselves , or barr'd themselves by any actual sin from baptism ( if innocency be that which intitles to it ) then the other but secondly to say the truth sirs so far is baptism from being intailed to innocents , and holy ones only , as their only right , that it belongs rather only unto sinners , for though christ for examples sake , and for other ends , submitted to it , who yet had no sin of his own , but he had ours by imputation , yet the most proper use of it to all else that submit is to signifie the remission of their sins mat. . . luk. . act. . . act. . . if believers infants therefore be so righteous , holy , i. e. innocent , &c. as you make them , and i dare not deny but that they are , nor dare i saie otherwise for the world of other infants in infancie , having more charity than your selves , even so much as to presume unumquemque bonum nisi constet de malo , they are so little inrighted to baptism thereupon , that till they sin they are much rather exempted from it : for if baptism be a sign to signifie to him who submits to it , the remission of his sinnes in plurali , ( as acts . . and in all other places it seems to be ) then it s utterly usless to such ( and therefore to infants ) as , being yet under no commission of sinnes , need yet no sign of remission of them . secondly . matrimonial holiness i call that , which arises from the conjugation of two viz , one man and one woman only into one flesh , according to gods holy ordinance and institution ; the subject of which holiness is not onely marriage it self , and the marriage bed , which is said to be honourable among all men , and undefiled , or which is all one , to be holy , heb. . . but also the married persons of what rank , quality , religion soever , when once come into that conjugall relation , whether both or either or neither of them be believers ; and the seed or infants that are born of them in that condition , which are called by god himself , mal. . . a seed of his own seeking , a godly seed , or seed of god , which he owns as truly , lawfully , honestly , holily begotten , according to his own holy appointment , and not basely , beastly , trecherously , adulterously , nor corruptly , as those are which are not begotten in the bed . opposite to this holiness , these holy ones ( i mean the married couples , and their holy seed ) are all the lusts of concupisence , objected on strange flesh ; uncleanness , thess. . . adultery , fornication , and unclean agents , i. e. adulterers ; and the unclean issues of the adulterous bed , viz , the adulterous brood , or the seed of the adulterer and the whore isa. . . this kind of holiness i dare say you do not mean , yea the most of you will hardly be perswaded that there 's any such kind of holiness at all , or if you be it makes nothing for your purpose , for what if infants of believing parents be ( as infants of unbelieving parents also are , when begotten in lawfull wedlock ) holy in such a sense , doth this tend at all to prove them to have the holy spirit , which is the thing in hand ? yet this even this , and no other is all the holiness meant by paul cor. . . where he saith , else were your children unclean , but now are they holy , that very place which your selves so often send us to , for proof thereof , when we deny your antecedent in this consequence , viz. infants of believers are holy , therefore to be baptized : this that i say as 't is not deni'd ( to my knowledge ) by some that are for infants baptism , so is it most undeniable to any that will but plainly and impartially consider the direct drift of the apostle in the verse , which is not any such matter as to shew that there 's such a sanctity in the unbelieving husband , or wife of believing yoke-fellows ( for these are there said to be holy as well as the children , with the same holiness ) and in their children also , as inrolles them all , viz. the unbelieving parties , and the children , as well as the believing parties in the covenant of grace , or in any such outward church covenant , as inrights them to baptism , membership and fellowship in the congregation , but to shew such a sanctity or holiness , as clears both their conjunctions , and conceptions to be pure and guiltless , such as frees their bed from the account of baseness , and their brood from the account of bastardy , both which in the sight of god and men would else be unholy , i. e. utterly unlawful and unclean : his scope is ( i say ) to convince them of the lawfulness of that state , i. e. of a believer and unbelievers being man and wife together , by the lawfulness of the seed that proceeds from them , and by both these not onely of the liberty and legality , but the duty also of their continuance together in that civil marriage relation , notwithstanding their different religion , as well as if they were in religion one and the same : the corinthians had written to him ( it seems verse ) about many cases ; wherein they were scrupled , and among the rest about this , viz. whether a husband or wife comming into the faith , and leaving their yoke-fellows still in unbelief ; might lawfully own and cleave to them still , as their true and lawful yoke-fellows , as before they did , when they were both in unbelief , or as they may one to another that are both in the faith , or whether they must not rather leave them now , and disown them as to that old capacity , because of this spiritual difference that now was between them , in answer to which he tells them , that by all means if the unbelieving parties will be pleased still to abide with them , as before , the believing parties must not depart , nor put away ; and to satisfie them further in so doing , he renders them this good reason , viz. for the unbelieving wife is sanctified in , or to the husband , and the unbelieving husband to the wife , which is as much as if he had said , you are as true man and wife in the account of god as before , your marriage is an honourable , your bed as undefiled as before , your unbelieving husband or wife sanctified as a lawful companion to you as well as before , your living and lying together is as holy , and unblameable in the eyes of god as before , and to put this more out of doubt yet , least any should remain unresolved , he minds them further by another argument ( ab absurdo ) the absurdity which they it seems were too inconsiderate of , that would follow upon it , if this were not so , for else ( saith he ) your children are unclean ; else ( that is ) if you deny your selves in this case of different religion to be lawful man and wife together , you heed not ( for wise men do not at all times see the ill consequences of things at present , as mr. tombes well observes , and as stark m●d as mr. baxter saies page . of his baby-book the corinthians were , if they did not mind this ) you heed not what mad work you will make by so doing , hereby you will deny your children to be a lawfull issue ; you will bring the blame of baseness upon your begettings , and the blot of bastardy upon your off-spring ; for all men know ( though at all times it may not come into their minds , nor then possibly when ther 's most need it should ) that by the same reason that the parents are not holy in their coming together , nor sanctified one to another by the ordinance of god , viz. true and lawful matrimony , the babes begotten and born of them , cannot be that godly seed , mal. . : but must be base born and unclean , and this the apostle here hints unto them in this clause , else were you children unclean , thereby evincing or evidencing to them , who doubted of it , the warrantableness of their abode in their marriage contract : but now saith he , i. e. though you are one in the faith , and the other in unbelief , yet your children are holy ; and honestly born for all that ( as else they could not ) and you consequently holy pure , and honest in your communion . and here i cannot but note by the way how egregiously mr. baxter pedles in a long prate to mr , tombes page , . about an impossibility of the corinthians knowing their seed to be legitimate , and yet doubting their marriage to be unlawful , whereas they might in general know it , and yet in special at this time not be so serious in considering it ; and how impossible it was for paul rationally to argue from the effect to the cause , so as to go about to convince them of the lawfulness of their marriage , by a consideration of the lawfulness of their seed , which flowes from lawful marriage , and is a consequent , of which that is the cause : whereas in cognitione ( praesertim confusà ) effectus sunt priores causis : in order to such knowledge as the apostle seeks here to beget them to , which was but as it were a certain remembrance of what they might have easily gathered of themselves , had they not been so forgetfull as to need a memorandum , 't is not irrational to clear the cause by the effect , as to say there 's smoak , therefore there 's fire , yet the fire is the cause of the smoak , these infants are no bastards , but legitimate , therfore their parents were married is the very same . this therefore i say again is all the holiness here intended . as for that federall holiness you fiddle men in the ear with as the only holiness here aim'd at , i confess i once rawly uttered it in discourse my self , when being a sprinkler of infants ( as you are ) and as stiff a stickler for that practise as the blindest ●mong you , i was made choise of to defend it against the baptists , who not by force of armes ( as the priest-hood once did ) but by force of arguments at last overcame me to-their way , but as i was then pretty well faulted for fastening such false constructions as of a faederal holiness on that place , so upon a more serious search into its sense , i have found it my self so faulty , that if i had said a fiddlestick holiness , it had been but somewhat more ridiculous , so far is paul from dilating on any such kind of holiness in that scripture , where to convince them of a meer civil sanctity , and to shew that different religion destroies not any civil relation is verily the very utmost of his errand . to inculcate this yet a little more upon you , let me press you to lay to heart these few considerations . first that , as here in this fourteenth verse he shews that the civill relation , or inst●●utive holiness of the state between man and wife is not nullified by a difference about the faith , so but that they may abide together therein , though one be a believer , and the other an infidel , without any sin or guilt contracted to the believer by such continuance in their contract , so in the following verses he shews that the civil relation , or civil sanctity of the state between master and servant is not nullified thereby , so but that they may lawfully live together in that state , though the servant should be a believer , and the master an infidel ; or the master a believer and the servant an infidel ve . . art thou called being a servant , i. e. to an unbelieving master , care not for it , i. e. distract not thy self about it , scruple it not solicitously , as if it were an unholy , unclean , unlawfull , or sinfull state for thee to remain in , for v. . he that is called in the lord , i. e. to the faith being a servant , i. e. in bondage to a master not yet called , is christs free man , i. e. acceptable to christ , even in that state and relation to such a master as before ; and in the favour of christ , as also he that is called being free , or a master himself is christs servant , i. e. one whom he owns for his , accepts and justifies , though happily he may be by covenant in relation still to unbelieving servants , he is holy , honorable , and undefiled in his state as a master , and that by virtue of the ordinance of christ , who hath sanctified that condition and relation of master , and servant to each other , as holy for them to abide in together , though in morall respects the person of one of them may be holy , and the other wicked . the very like to which pauls hints in his exhortation to servants , even of unbelieving masters , tim. . . where he bids believing servants that are under the yoke , though to unbeliving masters ( for in that he saies & they that have believing masters in v. ▪ it argues that he means such as have non-believing masters in the first ) that they should count them worthy of all honor because they are their masters still , by the ordinance of god that hath set and sanctified them in their place and station as honorable and holy , though in their persons and practise they may be contemptible , vile , and ungodly ; the like he saies to christians concerning civil magistrates , though infidels , rom. . that being ordained of god and sanctified , or set apart as his ministers for civil good , they are to have a reverend , honorable , and even holy estimation of them in their hearts , and to abide in their subjection to them in matters civilly righteous , even for conscience sake . the like he saies to children that are in the faith ( i mean not infants , for the scripture was not penn'd to such ) concerning their parents , whom , as they are their parents , they are to honor as those , who are by right of divine institution under a stamp of holiness , and civil sanction towards them as superiors to be respected in that relation , whether they be believing parents yea or no : for believing children such as are written to in pauls epistles ephes. . . col. . . may and oft have ungodly parents , as well as believing parents ungodly children , or believing husbands and wives ungodly yoak fellowes , yet alwaies to be owned in the relations , as husbands , wives , parents , children still ; thus we see that persons may be vile , and so far to be contemned psal. . . yet holy , pure and honorable in their capacities , and so far to be so accounted on , they may be unsanctified in their hearts , and lives , and yet be invested with such a civil sanctity by a dint of divine imposition , and institution as may denominate them severally sanctified in their stations , and naturall or civill places of relation , thus magistracy and subjection , mastership , and servitude , mariage , and propagation of mankind in that way being all holy ordinances of god , all sanctified by his word and stamp upon them as honorable , and undefiled states and waies , to be and abide in , persons may be unworthy , unclean , unsanctified in their manners , and yet be holy , honorable , sanctified , true legitimate magistrates , sanctified subjects , sanctified masters , sanctified servants , sanctified wives , sanctified parents , sanctified children , so as to be according to their several capacities reverenced , submitted to , served , protected , provided for , used , own'd , lawful to be continued with each by other ( fide & infidelitate non obstante ) without respect to religion , yea though the relata , pura masters , and husbands , &c. be unbelievers , and the corr●lata , viz. servants , wives , be believers in the height . this to resolve the corinthians in , who might possibly , and very easily be gravell'd herein , specially considering how that under the law , where the dispensations indeed were different from the gospels , they were commanded to put away their wives , is the down-right , and onely business , and design of the apostle in the fourteenth and following verses , where besides his direction in particular , in this difference of faith and unbelief , when it falls out between man and wife , master and servant , which two he instanceth in only in this chapter , he gives a general direction to all sorts of persons in every condition , quality , capacity , rank , or relation , to abide therein , if they please , as sanctified and holy , i. e. by civil sanction to abide in , in these words verse . viz. but as god hath distributed to every man , as the lord hath called every one so let him walk , and so ordain i in all churches , and also in these v. . let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called . the sanctification therefore or holiness here talkt on is only civil sanction , as to men , wives , and their children , a holiness only matrimonial , and not a faederal or covenant holiness ( as you dream ) unless instead of the holiness of gods covenant , you mean the faederall holiness , or holiness of the mariage covenant , or any civil covenant , or tie between superiours in relation , and their subjects , which all indeed , when once solemnly contracted , and entred are also gods ordinance , gods covenant , which he owns , and will most severely punish the pollution of , therefore as the harlot that deals treacherously with her husband is said prov. . . to forget the covenant of her god , i. e. the marriage contract ; and the covenant where by the man and wife are one is said to be of gods making mal. . . . so god threatning iudah for her whoredomes most terribly , ezek. . . saies he will judge her , as women that break wedlock and shed bloud are judged ; so likewise did he plague zedekiah when in the capacity of a prince , he covenanted to give liberty to his servants , but did not ier. . . so when in the capacity of a servant to nabuchadnezzar that set him up , he covenanted and sware allegiance to him , but sleighted his covenant and brake it , which god calls his own oath and covenant , the breach of which he would recompence on his head , ezechiel chap. . verse . , , . secondly , let it be considered that the holiness and sanctification here meant , and mentioned what ere it is , is said to be in the unbelieving parent , whether husband or wife , as well as in the children , and therefore it cannot be your faederall or outward church-covenant holiness , i. e. such a holines ; as intitles to baptism , and intailes church-membership , church priviledges , and ordinances , to the subjects to whom it is predicated , sith the unbelieving husband and wife are denominated by it too , for as of the children it is said they are holy , so of the non-believing yoke-fellows it is said they are sanctified , between which there is no more difference then between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which seem to me but a hendiadis , or double expression of the same thing , and not more unlike then two pences , and a shilling ; and will not this absurdity ensue , which i dare say you will evade if you can , if the holiness be such as you say , viz. that the unbelieving husbands and wives must be baptized and inchurched also upon their yoke-fellowes faith , being sanctified thereby as well as the in●ants ? therefore is it not rather think you a civil and matrimonial then an ecclesiastical , & faederall sanctity ? your usual evasion is this . babist . the parents are sanctified by the faith one of the other , not so as to be in covenant themselves by their sanctification , nor yet so as to be baptized thereupon , but they are sanctified as a holy root , so as to bring forth a holy issue , that hath , by vertue of its holiness , a right to the church covenant and baptism . baptist. then it seems the unbeliever is with you a holy root as well as the other , and gives holiness to the child , and makes it holy as well as the other parent , yea so holy , that by that concurrence the child is in covenant and to be baptized . first , do you not say somtimes that the child hath its holiness from the believing party onely , as if there were no influence passing from the unbeliever towards its holiness ? why then do you say sometimes again , that from a holiness which is in both they are co-contributers of holiness to the infant ? which of the two is most undoubtedly true , for the holiness what ever t is is such ( and such it could not be if it were any but matrimonial ) as is in , and equally flowes from the unbelieving parent , as much as the believing to the infant . secondly , if the root be holy are not the branches so ; and if the branches be holy is not the root at least as , if not more so , in the same sence , with the holiness of the same kind , which it conveyeth to the branches ? and if so , then must not this unbelieving parent being a root , have the same kind of holiness the child hath ? is he not as holy as the child is , and so as capable of being baptized , and in covenant thereby ? sith you all agree that nil dat quod in se non ha●●● , and quodcunque efficit tale ( id est ) propriè , est magis tale , whatever is a proper efficient to make another so , or so , must be more so it self , so that if the unbelivnig parent be as holy , with your very covenant holiness it self , as his child , must he not as well by vertue thereof be admitted to the same priviledges ? having though no more faith then his child , yet somewhat else , viz. that holiness that with you intitles to baptism , yea it is more eminently in him than the other : either therefore deny those old received axiomes , and that i think you need not do , for they are truths , or else deny that which is so commonly asserted by you , viz. that the unbelieving parents are sanctified , so as to be holy roots to their children by the faith of their believing yoke-fellows , as well as the believing yoke-fellows are by their own , and this you will be very loath to do , for you will hardly coin such a handsome shift as that is in hast again , if you let it go , or else deny that the unbelieving husband and wife is sanctified or holy at all , but that you cannot do for the text saith they are hallowed as well , and in the same sense as their children and believing companions are , in being married to them , what sense soever that is , or else grant us they are holy with the holiness we stand for , as that onely which is meant in this place , viz. legitimacy , freedome from the least tincture of uncleanness , and baseness in their cohabitations , generations , and issue , and this i believe you must do when all is done ; but then you lose such a supporter of your practise , that let go one more , viz. act. . . . which must be handled also hereafter ; and iachin and boaz , the two prime pillars that stand by the entry into your temple , i. e. infants sprinkling , which is your entring ordinance , will be removed , a matter of no small tendency to its ruin , or else le ts see in you rejoinder , for i put these things upon you by way of quaere , expecting to see ( if by silence you give not the cause ) how well you will distinguish your selves out of the briars , which your opinion upon the place brings you into , and how well you will wind your selves out of those many absurdities which you are led aside into from the way of truth , by the extravagancies and cunning concavities of your crooked logick lane . thirdly , let it be considered that the holiness here predicated of the unbelieving parent and the children , is not such as is the result of the faith , and faederal holiness of the believing parent , ( as is so frequently asserted among you ) but of the marriage covenant , which being holy by institution , and honourable among all , and undefiled , gives the denomination of civil sanctity to the unbelieving couple and their seed , as to a couple of believers , and their seed , as also the denomination of honourable in an unbelieving magistrate and master arises , not from any praise worthy qualification in their persons , much less in the persons of the correllatives , as you say the holinesse of the unbeliever doth from the faith of the believer , but from divine ordination which constitutes them as holy in their places , this will be evident , first , if you consider the manner of speech here used by the apostle , who saies , not the unbeliever is sanctified in the believing wife , and believing husband but in the wife , and in the husband , i. e. in her being his wife , and his being her husband , and howbeit its true , which is commonly return'd to this , viz. that 't is the believing wife of the unbelieving husband , and the believing husband of the unbelieving wife , when the marriage is between believers and unbelievers , yet the believing party is not here preferred before the unbelieving parent , as to the conferring of this holinesse upon the issue , but they are said to be both , and that by your selves , who confesse they jointly make one holy root , equall in this influence , and are sanctified , not one by the faith of the other , as you suppose the unbeliever to be by the faith of the believer , but both by the ordinance of god , viz. their marriage each of other , so that they both alike do sanctifie the issue . secondly , if you consider the true genuine proper direct tendency and weight of this relative particle [ else ] which if you allow it a right reference , relates not to the faith or believing of either , but to their being true man and wife , to the lawful wedlock of them both ; for that which is the ground of your error about this place is the forcing of this particle [ else ] the wrong way , for else , i. e. ( say you ) if one of the parents be not a believer , then the children are unclean , wheras the sense of it runs thus , vix . else i. e. if you be not holy in your copulations , if you be not sanctified one in , to , and by the other as lawful man and wife , by your union formerly contracted , notwithstanding your now disunion in religion , then your children are unclean , and this is truth , for so the children are in this civil sense , if begotten , and born out of matrimony , whether the parents be believers or no , bu● the other is not truth , for whether both or but one or none of the parents believe , the infants for that cause alone , and without respect to matrimony , are in no sense ere the more holy or unclean . thirdly , and this will yet appear more plainly , if you consider that faith alone in either one , or both the parents begetting out of wedlock cannot sanctifie the seed so begotten with this civil holiness here meant , no nor with that faederall holiness you plead for , nor could it do so even then , when that holinesse or birth priviledge you talk of was in force ( as now it is not ) viz. in the daies of the law ; for if two believers came together then , out of marriage their seed were not onely base born f and so unclean , in this our sense , but also to the tenth generation uncapable to be admitted into the congregation , and so consequently unclean even in your own , deut. . . whereupon ( how pharez and zarah were dealt with it matters not , sith they were born before the law was given ) ieptha was exempted from any inheritance with his brethren , because he was the son of a strange woman , iudg. . . and davids unclean issue by bathsheba , that in the wisdome of god was taken away by death on the seventh day , might not surely , without breach of the law , have been accounted holy , and of the congregation , if he had lived beyond the eighth , whereupon your selves also are much fumbled about the holinesse of bastards , and the baptism of base-begotten babies , so that you scarcely know how to behave your selves about it , though the parents sinning be believers , at least en-churched in your churches , yea it s generally known ( saith mr cotton g ) that our best divines do not allow the baptism of bastards and though he is pleased to say they allow it not sine sponsoribus , without sureties , yet i wonder , sith deut. . . gods denial of such of old is made the ground of their denial of such now , to enter into the congregation as unholy , that our divines dare take on them to admit cum sponsoribus , and so to go besides their own rule , viz. the order of things under the law , wherein god gave no such allowance , but to let that tolleration pass , which they take to themselves , you may learn thus much of your selves if you will , that though wedlock without faith make a holy seed in our sense , yet faith without wedlock in the parents can make a holy seed neither in our sense , nor in your own , nor any at all , for the infants of the married are holy ; but believers bastards are both civilly , and federally unclean ; inso much that your selves see cause to refuse as federally holy , the spurious seed euen of those , whose lawfull issue you unlawfully sprinkle . fourthly , if you more seriously consider , that the holinesse in the infant here must needs be the fruit and result of that , and that must needs be the cause of the holiness here spoken of in the infant , quo posito ponitur sanctitas , sublato tollitur , which being in the parents , a holinesse must necessarily be thereupon , which not being in the parents , a holinesse cannot be in the seed : for positâ causà ponitur effectus sublata tollitur : abstract the cause and the effect cannot be : suppose the cause and the effect cannot but be : now that which if it be not in the parents the holiness is not , but being in them the holinesse is consequently in the infants , 't is not the faith , but the conjugal or marriage relation of the parents , for as for the first of these , viz. faith , it may be in one , yea in both of the parents , and yet no federal holinesse at all be in the infants , witness ishmael the seed of abraham the father of the faithful , and his sons by keturah also , born of him after covenant made with him , and his seed in isaac and iacob , and yet neither of them in that covenant , witnesse the base born children of true believers among the jews , suppose david and ba●●sheba , which for all the parents faith could not by the law be admitted in th● congregation , nor have that birth-priviledge to be reputed holy , which from the parents faith you universally intail to the infants : moreover this birth-priviledge and covenant-holiness by generation , which did inright to church ordinances , which once was , but now is a non-entity , and out of date , might be then , when it was in being , in children , in whose parents faith was not found at all , for most of the iews were unbeiievers , yet all their legitimate children were holy federally , therefore faith in the parent cannot be the cause of such a thing : yea if you will believe mr , blake himself , the strictest pleader for a birth-priviledge of federal holiness in infants that ever i met with , and that from this very place , he condescends so far as to contribute one contradiction to himself toward the helping of the truth in this case , viz. that faith in the par●nt is not the cause of this holinesse , whilst making the holinesse in this text to be a birth priviledge , or church-covenant holinesse , and to be the fruit and result of the faith of the believing parents , and consequently their faith to be the sole and proper cause of the same , he confesses flatly elsewhere page . that a loose life in the parent and mis-belief , which is as bad , in some cases worse , then unbelief , ( for which is worse to believe false things , or not to believe true ? ) yea apostacy from the faith , ( which all if they be not inconsistent with faith i know not what is ) do not divest , nor debar the issue from having that holiness which ( himself saies ) is meant in this text . babist . perhaps he means not by faith strictly the parents true believing , but in generall his being in the covenant , and faederally holy himself , and so a cause of this federal holiness in the issue . baptist. first , paul means true believing here , in cor. . . whether mr blake do or no. secondly , what will he get as to the point in hand by his synonamizing faith and faederall holiness , for still neither the one nor the other is made here the cause of the holiness of the seed , for the holiness here spoken of may be where neither of them is , and may not be in the seed , even where they are both in the parent , as for example in ezras time , ezra , . we find abundance of the jews , both priests , and people , that were in the faith , or at least in faederall holiness , yet the children were put away as unholy , as well faederally as otherwise , because their marriage was unlawfull , and that bed adulterous wherein they lay with strange wives , ezra . . and that both parents possibly may be faithful , and faederally holy , and yet their seed be in all senses utterly unclean is evident , for the child of two believing jews begotten besides the marriage bed , was both a bastard , and also barr'd from the congregation , deut. . . again this faederal holiness as well as faith may be in neither parent , and yet the issue not be unclean , but holy still , and so are all ( matrimonially , and civilly at least ) that among pagans are the issue of the marriage bed ; and with the holiness of the covenant of grace too , when they come to years , and believe themselves , as not a few children of unbelievers do , and sometimes the seed of turks and tartars , this therefore i. e. the faith , or faederal sanctity of the one parent , nor of both cannot be the cause of this sanctity , is here denominated of the seed , for holiness in the infants is not alwaies , when this is , and sometimes it is in the infant , when this is not in the parent , which being of each without other , cannot be between a true cause , and its effect ; but as for the second viz. the marriage sanctity in the parents , it is that which being in the parents , holiness is naturally and necessarily in the seed that is born of them , whether they be both or either , or either in faith or unbelief , but being not in the parents , there can be no holiness , no birth holiness in their infants , nor matrimonial , nor congregationall neither : therefore this is that which is the cause of the holiness of the issue in this scripture , the result of which , and not of faith in the parents , is this non-uncleanness in their posterity , and so i have done with this kind of holiness , and with this scripture which speaks of this matrimonial holiness and no other . thirdly , ceremonial holiness , i call that same holiness which properly , peculiarly , and pro tempore only pertained to the whole nation , and congregation of israel , denominating them all holy every one of them , and distinguishing them from all other people , and nations ; which during the time of the iews pedagogy , according to gods own imposition were then accounted sinners , common , and unclean by a certain ●●s-rationis , an extrinsecall , meerly notional , and nominal rather then either real , moral or substantiall sort of sin , and uncleanness to which the others holiness was directly opposite , and answerable . the subjects of which accountative holiness were not only the people of the jews themselves , which were a holy people deut. . ver . . exod. . . but also and more specially the priests , and more specially yet , or in a higher degree , but in the same kind of holiness ( for degrees do not vary nature ) the high priests , which were holiness to the lord , exod. . . also their parents , which were not matrimonially only , nor often morally , yet ( to allow your own phrase here , because they were outwardly in covenant with god , concerning outward promises and priviledges , on performance of outward ordinances ) ever● faederally a holy parentage a holy root , rom. . also their natural ( if withall matrimonial ) issue , which were not at all in their infancy , and but seldome when at years spiritually , allwaies faederally holy branches , a holy seed , also their land of canaan , which was the holy land , their metropolitan city ierusalem , which was the holy city , their temple , which was a holy temple , the utensills , vessels , vestments , and other accomplishments , which were all holy , a holy lavar , a holy altar , a holy ark , holy candlesticks , holy cherubims , most holy place , &c. and in a manner all things belonging to the law of moses , and that first covenant made with abraham , and his fleshly seed , whether hollowed or consecrated by god himself , or dedicated to him by men at his appointment , viz. the first born , the first fruits , tithes , offerings , sacrifices , daies , feasts , which were al ! holy , and had relation ( as shadowes and types for a while ) unto things evangelically , spiritually , and substantially holy ; that were to be there after : yea with this same kind of holiness some meats were holy ; some flesh hag. . , . was holy , some birds , and beasts were sanctified as holy , and lawfull to be used , and eaten , when others were prohibited as prophane , common and unclean , not so much as to be touched without sin , without contracting such an outward fleshly kind of guilt , and impurity , as made their souls in that ceremonial sense abominable ; yea with an uncleanness oppositely answerable to this carnall holiness , those fleshly purities , and purifyings , that then were , some actions , as the touch of a dead body ; some issues of men and women , some diseases as the leprosie , some bodily blemishes as crookedness , dwarfishness , blindness , lameness , yea the very easements , and excrements that passed from them in the camp , without covering , did defile and render them sinners , prophane , unclean , unholy and guilty before the lord , levit. . . . — . . to . also chapters . . . also levit . . . — . . to the . deut. . . . . which defilements did then reach to pollute the flesh only , which the bloud of bulls and goats , that could not cleanse the conscience morally , did sanctifie to the purifying of hebr. chap. . ver . . neither do these things defile any man now in any such sense at all . this is the holiness , which when you say infants of believers are holy ; i have ground to perswade my self you ashford disputants mean not , but rather some inherent morall holiness , when i consider how you talk of infused habits in the hearts of infants in your disputation and review ; and yet again i have ground to believe you mean this holiness , which was in the jewish infants and their implements , if i may imagine your meaning , by what is extant in the writings of your brethren upon the subject , specially if i may measure your meaning by mr blakes in his birth-priviledge , or covenant-holiness of believers and their issue , wherein he laies himself out at large , and yet is too short when all is done in proving from the like under the law , among the people of the iews and their issue , that even now in the times of the gospel also , a people that enjoy gods ordinances , convey to their issue a priviledge to be reputed by birth , not unclean , but holy persons , and thereupon to be baptized ; the absurditie and inconsequence of which doctrine ( and so i hope to make it appear , now i am upon it ) is little less then if he had argued thus , as the pope doth from that time to this , viz. there was an hierarchy or holy principallity among the priests under the law , therefore there must be such another under the gospel , and as then the high-priests , aaron and his sons who were holiness to the lord , wore holy garments in their ministration for glory and for beauty , viz. coats , and robes embroydered with gold and blew , and purple and scarlet , and fine linnen , and curious girdles of needle work , nnd miters , and holy crowns upon the miters , so his holiness to the lord , the high-priest of christendome appollyon , and his sons must thus swagger in their service , and be set out in such a holy manner for glory , and for beauty , with his pontificalib● , and most holy sumptuous , superstitious attire : this holinesse of the holy priest-hood that then was , and its holy pertinances , that holy people , and holy seed you stile very fitly , and i agree with you in the term ( for 't was indeed the holiness of that covenant that then was , while the first tabernacle , and its worldly sanctuary was yet standing ) a federall holiness , nevertheless though you call it by no name but what i freely allow of , yet i call it by one or two names , which though they be as true and properly due to it as the other , and epithites given ordinarily by your selves to the holinesse of almost every thing else under that covenant , yet least it pluck you up by the roots as touching your opinion in this point of infant-holinesse and baptism , i much fear you will hardly allow of them as to the parents and the seed , if you can handsomely evade them by secundum quid , or some such like cleanly distinction : these are first , a ceremoniall holiness , the rise of which denomination , and reason why given , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quasi ad tempus durans , for a time onely , its non-continuance to the end , or its non-conveyance down-wards from the church of the jews , to the times and churches of the gospel : secondly , a typical holinesse , as being but a shew , shadow or figure of some more excellent holinesse to come , for the law and first covenant had but the shadow of things to come , and not the very image of the things , heb. . . i say a typicall , and therefore but a temporall holiness , which stood and was seated onely in divers outward bodily rites , sacrifices , actions , observations , ordinances , offices , officers , places , gestures , vestures , ornaments , meats , drinks , and a certain fleshly birth-right , and title to certain earthly preheminences , dignities , priviledge● , liberties , inheritances , a kingdome : and all this for the time then being onely , and to point out a true , more speciall , ●eall , spiritual and eternal excellency and glory under the gospell in order to the manifestation of which all the other was but a pageant , for as the map of that ierusalem that then was , delineates to our capacities the beauty of that earthly fabrick , yet is far inferious to the city it self therein deciphered , so the old ierusalem with all her holy things , were but a shadowy representation , and patern of the new ierusalem , and the true heavenly things themselves , which the other is as far inferiour to in worth and real felicity , as any mapp of it upon the wall is to the city that is set out , and darkly described by it . thus did their high-priests in all their holiness , yea and kings too ( king solomon specially in all his glory ) and their prophets also , in all their materially holy unctions to those severall holy functions , type out that one spiritually anointed one of the father , our lord iesus , though a single person , to his tripple office of king , priest , and prophet over his church , so their carnally holy meats , drinks and abstinencies , our spiritual meat and drink , which they are said to eat of in a figure , and our abstinencies from fleshly lusts , and morall pollutions ; so their holy washings the washing of regeneration , and renewings by the spirit ; their holy sacrifices , blood of sprinkling , which ( as all the rest ) could not make perfect as pertaining to the conscience , but sanctified onely to the purifying of the flesh , i. e. the delivery of them from that outward imputation of impurity , and uncleanness that would else have lain upon them , the blood of christ purging the conscience from iniquities , and dead works wherewith it s defiled , to serve the living god in true holiness and righteousnesse all the daies of our life : so circumcision of their fleshly seed , which was outward , and in the flesh , tipified , not baptism ( as is simply supposed from col. . ) but the circumcision of the spiritual seed , i. e. believers , new-born babes , begotten to christ by the word , with the circumcision made without hands , i. e. sanctification , and cutting of the filthy lusts of the flesh ; so their outwardly royall priest-hood , the spiritual royal priest-hood , i. e. the true saints , who are truly ( as the other ceremonially and tipically ) a kindome of priests , made kings and priests to the lamb , and shall once reign on the earth , pet. . . rev. . . so the outward holiness of their nation tipified , not the same kind of outward ho●inesse of any one nation taken collectively in the lump , as the whole nation of england , scotland , &c. and all their seed ( as you ignorantly imagine ) but the inward holinesse of the holy nation of true believers themselves , whether parents to wicked children , or children of wicked parents , scattered through all nations under heaven , these peter writes to , and calls the chosen generation now , i. e. the regenaration themselves , not the natural generation of these ; also a royall priest-hood , an holy nation , a peculiar people to god in a spiritual sense , as israel was in a certain carnal and outward sense before , pet. . , . . so their holy land our inheritance incorruptible reserved in heaven the heavenly country , which we look for with abraham , isaac and iacob , with whom we are heirs by faith of the same promise ; their holy city , our holy city , which hath foundations , whose builder and maker is god , heb. . rev. . heb. . their holy temple , gods evangelically holy temple , where he will dwell , which temple ye are , saith paul to the church , cor. . their carnal freedome , our spiritual freedom from sin , which who ere commits is but a servant , for all the other : though born of abraham , iohn . their passeover , christ our passeover that was sacrificed for us , cor. . their rock , our rock of refreshment christ ; their cloud , christ overshadowing by day , and enlightning by night his people , cor. . their manna , christ , our bread that came down from heaven iohn . their delivery out of egypt the worlds redemption by christ ; and as sundry other things , of which i cannot now speake particularly , so lastly ( to draw yet a little neerer to the point in hand ) their holy seed , issue , infancy tipified , not ( as both corruptly and carnally you conceive ) the fleshly seed of believing , or in-churched gentiles , for these are in no wise the antitype to the circumcised infancy of israel , but as i hinted before , the truly and spiritual holy seed it self , i. e. believers themselves ; or if the seed of believers , not their natural seed , but their seed in a spirituall sense , i. e. that are begotten by them , by their words unto the faith ; for believers as men beget men onely , and no more in that way of bodily propagagation , but as believers they may beget believers , by way of spiritual influx , by comunication of the gospel to their consciences , thus paul was the father of the corinthians , in christ iesus begetting them all by the gospel , cor. . thus he travelled with the galathians till christ was form'd in them , whom also he bespeaks , as iohn also doth his converts , iohn . . by the name of my little ch●ldr●n , gal . . thus far if you will i agree with you , but your cause will be no gainer by this agreement , that as ceremonially holy ones begat ceremonially holy ones under the law , as a tipe in a way of carnall copulation , so spiritually holy ones beget spiritually holy ones , in a gospel sense , by their spiritual communion and communication : for as christ himself , who supremely begets , so true christians as agents , and instruments under him may be said to multiply , and see their seed when in their endeavours to beget others to the faith , the work , will , way and pleasure of the lord doth succeed and prosper in their hands ; that holy seed therefore that answers under the gospel to that holy seed , the jews infants under the law , as the substance of that shadow , that with all the rest is now fled away , is christ , and his truely , morally and spiritually holy ones onely , for the holy seed of the law , or that seed which was holy in the old covenants account , were but as the leaves of an oak , which though they flourish and make a shew for a time , yet at last are cast off and fall to the ground , but the holy seed in the gospel sense , i. e. the saints and true believers , not their natural seed with them , for they are onely semen carnis , and that not of abraham neither , ( as the iew is who yet hath thereupon onely no part , nor portion in this matter ) but of the gentiles , these saints i say are the true semen fidei , children of the faith , and sp●ritual seed of abraham , and also the very substance thereof , as isa. . . as the prophet there speaks of the truly godly , so i say the substance of the church of the iews , now it hath cast it leaves , i. e. all its former figurative holinesse , holy priests , and holy seed , the substance thereof is still in them . for all things under the law and old testament , even the whole covenant and testament it self , as well as every part and parcel of the same , did but serve unto the example and shadow of the new testament , will and covenant that stands ratified by the blood of the testator , ( as neither was the first dedicated without blood ) and the more holy and true heavenly things thereof , yea as well the holy promises that were made to that holy seed , as the holy precepts upon performance of which they were made , and the holy seed it self also to whom the promises were made , and of whom these precepts were required , did exemplifie a better testament , and those better promises upon which it is established , and the better and more spiritual ordinances , which in order thereunto are to be observed , and that better and far more holy seed that observing these ordinances shall at last inherit , which all were to come in under christ , and before which all the other were to vanish viz. first , a heavenly canaan , country , kingdom , inheritance , substance , peace , prosperity , plenty , advancement , rest , immunity ; glory answering to all that of israels which was but earthly . secondly , the life of faith , and obedience to christs law , which is more inward and spiritual mat. . answering that law of commandements , conteined in ordinances given by moses , which was more ad extra and carnal . thirdly , that holy seed which is not of the law of moses nor of the flesh of abraham by generation , but of christ by regeneration the seed or successors of the faith of abraham , and so heirs with him by that faith of all gospel-promises , answering antipically to the other ; for though the promise of being heirs of the old canaan , which was but a spot of the world and pickt out as a pattern for the time , was made to abraham and his seed through the law i. e. the children of isaac and iacob , which were counted for his seed under the law viz. the natural branches of his body ( for these onely were the heirs of that old earthly legall and tipical land of promise , in token of which all the males were circumcised in their flesh ) yet the promise that abraham should be heir of the world ; which is the gospel pointed at , couched and exhibted tipically in the delivery of the other was not made to abraham and that seed of his through the law ( quâ tales ) only , unless they were ( as some few were ) by faith his seed in the other sense also , but through the righteousness of faith i. e. to the branches grafted in by personal believing in christ rom. . , . where the apostle saies plainly , that if they which are of the law and circumcision only ( meaning the fleshly seed of abraham ) as such , unless they also walk in the steps of that faith which abraham had , be heirs with him of the world , which is the thing promised in the gospel then faith , which is made the onely term intitling to gospel-promises is made void , and the promise of just no effect at all : much more may we say if the fleshly se●d of your gentile believers , most of which are no believers neither , be heirs of this gospel-promise , and gospel-inheritance ( as so born ) so that they may be signed for heirs by the gospel-ordinance of baptism , upon that meer and simple account of their parents being believers , without respect to faith in their own persons , then the gospell requires faith to be acted by us in order to salvation altogether in vain , and to no purpose ; yea if go●pel-promises and priviledges be intailed to me upon my fathers being a believer , i need no faith of mine own , as to the making of me an heir thereof , and if it were so as you commonly say , but most horrible in considerately from acts . . that the promise of the gospel is not onely to the believers but also to their bodily issue , as barely descending from them , qua sic simpliciter , and without their own personal faith , which in infancy appears no more to be in them then infants of unbelievers , and which if it appears ( as oft it doth in unbelievers children when they come to years and not in the other ) declares them to be heirs apparent thereof , when the other are not ) then i say plainly that all believers children must unavoidably be saved , if god be true in his promise , though when they come to years they never believe , and live never so prophanely , the terms being still fulfilled upon which you say the promise is made to them , which is this being born of believing parents , for the prophanness of their lives , and non-believing themselves , non est causae quo minus , &c. is no cause whereupon they are a whit less the seed of believers after the flesh , and if so ( and also that that only gives a title to the promise ) then he that made that promise on those terms , viz. being the fleshly seed of believers , the terms of being so born being fulfilled by all the natural seed of believers , be they never so ungodly in their own persons , must be faithful to fulfil his own part , and ( their ungodliness non obstante ) make it good to them concerning their salvation , which drives you oft to such a dilemma in discourses , that for your ears almost you dare not answer distinctly to us , when we ask you what that gospell promise is , which is made ( as you say ) to believers infants , and upon what terms it is made to them , beyond the infants of unbelievers ? babist . we do not say that being born of believing parents only , intitles persons to the gospell promises , but they are heirs thereof , and of all the glory , and priviledges , and salvation held forth therein as they shall hereafter believe themselves also , and live godly , when they come to years , and not otherwise . baptist. yea say you so ? then pray how doth the promise of the gospel appear to belong one jot more to believers children , then to unbelievers ? for the believers child ( it seems by you now ) cannot by promise be saved upon his parents faith , unless he believe also himself , and then he may , and what is this more then i can say to the full of all unbelievers children , yea and as well of all unbelievers in the world ? for even the children of turks and pagans , and all the children of all the men upon the face of the earth shall be saved , upon these terms , viz. believing and obeying the gospel themselves , when they come to years , whether their parents ever obeyed it , yea or no ; where then is the preheminence of your believers seed above unbelievers , if you go this way to work ? either therefore grant the one , or else the other , viz. either that believers children are heirs of salvation upon their fathers faith onely without their own , or if you say , not so but by their own faith t is that they must be saved , then that the gospel promise belongs not to believers children beyond other mens , and that one mans seed hath no such birth-priviledge and preheminence as you dote of about anothers , for unbelievers children may as well as they by promise be saved upon their own faith , when they come to age without their fathers . babist . we can easily answer you to all this by distinguishing upon the promise , thus , the promise of the gospel is either of salvation , life remission of sins , the holy spirit , as the earnest , and the inheritace it self to come , or else of external priviledges only , and participations of ordinances , as baptism , churchmembership &c. the promise of the eternal inheritance , life , and salvation we grant is not made , much less made good to any upon terms of the parents faith , but upon our own personal belief , and obedience , but the promise of outward priviledges , and of right to participation of ordinances , as to be baptized , and inchurcht , this belongs to children upon their fathers faith , so that believers children are children of the promise in this sense , when others are not , and in this last sense it is that peter saies the promise is to you , and to your children &c. i. e. you and yours have the priviledge of right to baptism . baptist. then it seems you quit the former sense , i pray therefore let us here no more of that till next time however , but let me tell you one thing by the way concerning that first sense , before i say ought to your second ; viz , that if the promise of salvation belong to persons upon their own personal belief and obedience ( as undoubtedly it doth , according to the whole tenor of the scripture as to men at years ) and such onely , then as very a figment of ours as you feign it to be , t will put you to your shifts , to find out what way dying infants are saved in , unless you own another way then that which the scripture tenders it to men in , for the justification and salvation of infants , viz. the presentment of the righteousness of christ for them without belief in them , or any other kind of obedience ; and sith in such sense as this only you own the gospel promise to be made by peter act. . to believers infants , viz. that they shall by right be admitted to outward priviledges , as baptism and membership , when others shall not , i beseech you consider what a poor piece of promise is made by him , and what a miserable comforter the apostle is made by you , in making as if this were all his meaning , and all that he intends by that precious word of promise ; i suppose his drift was to support the jewes , now smitten down under sense of sin , and the guilt of christs blood which then lay upon them , by propounding to them some ground of consolation , but here is cold comfort in what he saith , if that be all , which you saie is , the sense he speaks in , he had spoke little to their purpose , and as good he had said never a whit , as never the better ; for this promise ( as you take it ) hath more matter of mourning in it then otherwise to say you shall be brought nearer to the church , but never the nearer to salvation thereby , further then you do that which others doing , that are further off the church , shall be saved so doing as well as you : sirs you had as good cut off the entail of that piece of promise , which you intitle believers infants to , us cut of the best part of the promise from them , which yet you seem to entail as from their parents to them , for this is not worth a rush without the other , for abstract this great priviledge you seem to invest them with , from that which you divest them of by this distinction , and its worth little or nothing , if not plainly worse than nothing , without the other : what better to be under a promise of being priviledged with , and what priviledge at all to be admitted to this , and yet to be no more , nor upon any other terms under the promise of the inheritance it self , then others , such as were yet never at all signed to it : is it not rather a burden and a bondage ? for outward ordinances verily are part of the preceptory part of the gospel , and the precept in point of ordinances , as well as in point of manners , is part of the yoke and burden of christ , and of the hard sayings of his , which flesh and blood brooks not to hear off , for though the way of christ is light and easie , and not grievous where it is lessened by thoughts of the recompence of reward , yet is it in it self a burden , and a yoke , and such a one too as considering the sufferings of all such as submit to own it , well nigh wearies them that walk under it , though under clearest title to the kingdome , for which they suffer , much more may it be a misery , and not a mercy to such , who have a promise of being barely admitted to it , but no more of life and salvation , or at least upon no other terms , then such as have not the priviledge to be admitted to it yet at all ; if the promise to believers and their children run only thus , viz. you shall stand under the title of the holy people of god , under right to outward ordinances , when others shall not , not only you , but also your children shall be baptized and inchurched , but neither you nor they ever the sooner saved , as born of you , further then together with you they shall believe and obey me in all things , in which case of faith and obedience all unbelievers in the world , and their children shall be saved , as soon as either you or they , it is as much as to say , the promise of a liberty and freedome to partake of the ordinance , is to you and your children above others , but the promise to partake of the inheritance is as much to all others and their children as to you , and yours ; what most comfortless comfort is this , to men cast down under sense of sin , and guilt ? what a pittious plaister is here applied to men wounded in conscience , and smarting under the direfull apprehensions of gods wrath ? besides what exquisite non-sense do you make the apostle speak , if his words be taken in your sense , for they must run thus , viz. first , by way of precept , repent and be baptized you and your children , in the name of christ for remission of sinnes , and then by way of incouragement thus , viz. so this great priviledge of being baptized shall belong to you and your seed , which impenitent unbaptized ones , and their seed shall not enjoy , but the promise of salvation and remission of sins is made no more to you then unto them : this is to restore them from their contrite and weather beaten condition , and to invest them cum privilegio with a witness , yet this is all the priviledge , if the promise here made to these parents , and their children be of no more then being outwardly incovenanted , i. e. inchurched by baptism ( as you say it is . ) but undoubtedly it must be otherwise then thus for all your saying and the promise , take it which of these two waies you will , viz. for the meer tender or proser of the thing ( as the word promise is sometimes used ) or for the thing it self profered or promised ( in which last sense its mostly taken ) it must needs be of some more excellent matter , then meer outward membership in the church on ●arth , abstract from all true and immediate title to remission of sinnes and salvation : yea verily its most evident that the thing here promised is no less then remission of sinnes and salvation itself , for as no less is exprest in the very text wherein he names remission of sinnes and the holy spirit , which elsewhere is called the earnest of the inheritance , so unless you will divide the children from sharing alike with their parents in that promise which in the self same sentence , terms and sense is propounded alike to them both , so as to say the word promise is to be understood of remission of sinnes , and salvation as in relation to the parents , but of an inferior thing viz. a right to ordinances onely as in relation to the infants which were intollerable absurdity to utter , it must necessarily be meant of one and the same kind of mercy to the children , as is exhibited therein to the parents ; yea and upon the same terms too , and no other then those upon which its tendred to the parents viz. personall repentance and obedience , and so consequently of remission of sinnes and salvation , and not of such a triviall title to external participation onely as you talk on , which if it be , then unless you assert that god hath promised salvation absolutely to all the natural seed of believers , upon those very terms onely as they are their seed , which you are ashamed to stand to , the promise , mean which you will by that word promise in this text , whether the bare proposall , or the salvation propounded , or both , upon these terms belongs of right not onely to believers and their posterity , but also to all men and their posterity to , without difference , when at years of capacity to neglect or perform them throughout all ages and places of the world ; for as the gospel or glad tidings of salvation are commanded by christ mark . , . to be preached or profered to every creature at years to hear and understand , though not to infants on terms of belief and baptism , so assuredly those terms being performed , the salvation so promised shall be injoyed accordingly , if he hath any truth in him , who said ●e that believeth ( i. e. lives and dies in the faith of christ ) and is baptized , shall be saved ; and paul likewise rom. . . intimates no lesse , saying that the righteousness of god which is by faith of iesus christ is unto all , and upon all them that believe , and there is no difference ; so that if they that are now unbelievers and unbelievers children also shall hereafter believe , with such faith as shews it self by obedience , which kind of faith onely the scripture means , the promise of salvation and remission of sinnes is as well unto them , as unto those that do now both believe themselves , and were also born of believing parents , yea and the promise of the holy spirit also prov. . . . for indeed god so loved the world ( not mundum electorum onely ex mundo electum ) that he gave his onely begotten son , not to condemn one person more then another , but as they should personally reject him , but that the world through him might be saved , that whosoever in it i. e. in all the world , not in the world of elect ( for that sounds as if some of the elect may believe , and some not ) do●h believe might not perish , but have everlasting life iohn . . . . . all which things well and wisely weighed , he is blind that sees any more birth-priviledge or right by birth to salvation , or the promise of it in believers seed , then in unbelievers ; neither is there now any more priviledge at all in any one mans naturall seed above anothers , save the meer hopefulness of education and advantage of instruction in the way and means of salvation , which may possibly befal believers children more then others , though in case it happen ( as it may possibly also do ) that believers children have their breeding among turks , and the children of very indians among believers , in that case these last have not onely no lesse priviledge , as to the promise of salvation by bare birth , but a priviledge also by that breeding beyond the other . that therefore the promise of the gospel-covenant in any sense in the world is made to believers seed ( as barely such ) more then to the natural seed of unbelievers ▪ can never be proved by the word , while the world stands , yea the very contrary is most evidently proved in this place act. . . . if we consult no other scripture besides it . for first , neither were these parents believers as yet when peter said the promise is to you and to your children , but onely were pricked at the heart upon some measure of conviction , that the person whom they had crucified was the lord of life , which thing the very devils believe and tremble at ; for in order unto the begetting of that saving faith , which yet they had not , he spake these words of incouragement , and exhortation to them , and this to the contradiction of mr. vahan whod ag'd in an argument by the head and shoulders from this place at the ashford disputation , was ingenuously acknowledged by mr. prig. nor secondly , doth peter make the promise any otherwise to them and their children then he doth to all others in the world i. e. on condition of their comming in at gods call , tis saies he to you and to your children , and to them that are far off , i. e. all manner of persons , even so many in all nations and generations as the lord our god shall call , i. e. as are prevailed with to come when god calls them , which to be the sense of this place is further illustrated by that pararel place of paul , heb. . . where he saies thus , viz. they that are called received the promise of eternall inheritance . nor thirdly , when the parents did believe and were baptized , were any of their infants baptized with them ( as they must have been had that promise been to their infants as well as to themselves , on that single account of being their seed ) for recording how many were baptized at that time , he concludes them under such a term , as excludes the infants from that daies work , while he saies thus , as many , meaning no more then those ( for else he deceives us utterly in his relation ) as gladly received the word ( this infants could not do ) were then baptized , which number , as they are recorded to be about might in likelihood have amounted to three times , if all the infants of all those had been dipped also . fourthly , nor were there any more inchurched that day among the rest , but such as gladly receiving the word , were then and thereupon baptized , for of these onely it is said , and not of infants , they continued together in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread and prayers ; but all their infants must have bin inchurched also as well as they , if equally with their parents , and by vertue of the same promise , the right of church-membership had belonged to them . besides fiftly , it crosseth the current of all other scripture to put such male-construction upon this , for that the promise of old , i mean the old promise of the law ; which was of the earthly canaan , and but a type of this did appertain unto a fleshly holy seed i grant , but that the new covenant , or gospel promise is made to any mans fleshly seed ( as such so that thereupon we may baptize them in token of it , before they are called to profess faith in christ ) is a thing , which i confess i found in the common high way , when i look'd not after it , but since i searched narrowly for it i could never see it ; sure i am the scripture holds forth no other seed of abraham himself to be heirs with him of the heavenly canaan but his spiritual sead , i. e. believers , that do his works , nor doth it own any but these to the right of membership , and fellowship in his family , i. e. the now visible church , for the visible church is abrahams family in all ages , as well under the gospel as under the law , & abrahams house i. e. the visible church as t is under the gospel is much altered from that it was under the law , yea so differently is it constituted , and totally translated from its mosaical form , that it is even turned up side down , and in a manner nothing remains the same it then was , as the covenant is not the same with that of that of the law , so neither is any thing else , that appertains to it , but every thing at it were divers from the other , and no way answerable save as the antitype is answerable to the type ; for neither is there the the same mediator , nor the same priest-hood , nor the same law , ( for the priesthood being changed , there must of necessity be also a change of the law , heb. . . that being the law of a carnal commandment only , in the observation of which perfection was not to the conscience , for it sanctified only to purifying of the flesh , i. e. from those outward fleshly , not morall uncleannesses , and therefore with the ordinances thereof called carnall , heb. . . this the power of an endless life , i. e. available , not to that temporal typical cleansing , purifying , and pardon only , for the procuring of a temporal life , or well being in canaan , but to the obtaining of an eternal life , by procuring remission of moral pollution heb. . , . nor is there now the same lawgiver under god that then was , that being moses the servant , who yet was faithful to him that appointed him in all his house the fleshly israel , for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after , this christ the son , who was worthy of more glory than moses , and is now over his own house , whose house we are that believe to the end , heb. . . . . . nor yet the same promises , that being of of an earthly , this of an heavenly inheritance ; nor yet the same holy nation , holy people , holy seed , to which the promises are made , that being the typical promised seed isaac and his posterity , this the true promised seed , i. e. christ , and his seed , i. e. all the saints , that are born of god by faith in him gal. . . to abraham and his seed were the promises made , he saith not unto seeds as of many , but as of one , and unto thy seed , which is christ ; nor the same ordinances , and administrations signing the inheritance , those being circumcision , the passeover ; these baptism in water , and the supper ; nor lastly the same subjects for those ordinances , those being by nature iewes or at least by profession , and their male seed only ( as to the one ) male and female as to the other , and that whether believing yea or no , these nor iewes nor gentiles by nature only ( but all persons whether iews or gentiles , males or females , yet only as believing ; for verily so far are the natural posterity of believing gentiles ( as such , and as yet not professing to believe themselves ) from being heirs apparent with abraham of gospel promises , and priviledges , and from title to the gospel ordinances , that sign them , and from being holy ones by birth , as the iew once was , and as mr. blake contends for it that these are , and from the repute of abrahams seed in the sense of the gospel , that even abrahams own natural seed ( as such only ) are not at all his seed in this sence at this day , nor at all holy with that kind of birth holiness they once had ( for that is ended and abolished in christ crucified ) nor entailed as heirs of that canaan , without faith and repentance in their own persons , which and no other , are the terms inrighting therunto , to any of these gospel ordinances at all , and all this will be seen most undoubtedly to be true , by him that searches the scripture , which testifie no lesse , and because this is the very root , and knot in the state of this controversie , the unfolding and laying open of which will discover the whole mystery of your mistakes in this point , all which arise originally from your erring in it ( for error minimus in principio fit major in medio , maximus in sine ) pray have me excused both in that i have been hitherto so long , and in case i be yet a little longer on this matter . first then let it be considered that abrahams own seed , even that seed that were heirs with him by promise of the earthly canaan , though born of his body now by isaac and iacob as truely , though more remotely then of old , of his body ( i say ) that was the greatest believer that ever was ( christ only excepted ) and therefore must much more then any other believer ( if any believer at all could ) by his faith confer a right to gospel priviledges upon his seed , even these are not his seed in the gospel account , not his heirs according to this gospel promise , nor as barely born of his body to be baptized and enchurched , and this i shall make plain unto you from many scriptures the first whereof is romans . . . . in which i beseech you to observe how the apostle there denies abrahams own naturall children the name of abrahams seed in the sence of the gospel ; first mark how he magnifies them exceedingly , and sets forth their dignity and preheminence above all other people , under the name of israelites , as to whom pertained the adoption , and the glory , and the covenants ; i. e. both testaments the type and the antitype , unto whom then pertained not only the giving of the law , but also the promises ( for verily the several excellencies of both law and gospel , upon the several terms upon which both were established , did in more special sence belong unto that people at that time , then to any people under the sun , yea the first covenant , and the promise thereof the earthly canaan and all the priviledges and ordinances signing it did pertain to them , as the proper heirs therof , by bare fleshly descent from abraham , isaac and iacob ; yea all that was theirs ipso facto ( as so born ) without more ado , whether they were believers or not believers , as to the gospel ; and as for the gospel covenant , which is now belonging to them in common only with all other men , in one respect it did principally pertain to them above all others , till they lost their preheminence , viz. not in respect of any right to it they had by birth whether they received it , yea or no , but in respect of the first tender therof , which , when it came in fuller force to be ratified to the world in the preaching of the gospel , was by special order and appointment from god , in the first place to be tendered unto them , nor was it carried at all to the gentiles , till these jews had both slighted and rejected it , when brought to them in the ministery of christ and iohn ; in proof of which see in mat. . . . . where the disciples sent forth to preach are forbidden to go in any waie of the gentiles , or to any save the lost sheep of the house of israel ; yea they were the children whose bred this was at that time ; and which till they loathed it , was not to be given to the doggs , excepting a few crummes of it , i mean to the gentiles , who till the partition wall was broken down between them , and the iews by christ crucified , were accounted doggs , common , unclean , sinners by nature , in a certain ceremonial sense in reference to the jewes , who then by birth were holy in a ceremonial sence , now vanisht , then answering as opposite to that birth uncleanness of the gentiles , mat. . . . . . see also mat. . . where the iews are said to be first bidden to the wedding , so luke . . . where christ commands that in their preaching the gospel to all nations , they should first begin at ierusalem ; and so we see they did , after his ascension act. . see also act. . . . where the jews are said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the children of the gospell covenant , in respect that unto them first god sent his son to bless them , in which respect they are said mat. . . to be the children of the kingdome , i. e. the heavenly kingdom which yet they were cast out into utter darkness from any enjoyment of , for their non-acceptance of it ; so act. . . where paul saies to the jews that 't was necessary that the word of the gospel should be first spoken to them ; so acts . . 't is said , the salvation of god , which the iew rejected , was from henceforth sent to the gentiles : notwithstanding all which glory , and preheminence of this people israel , whose were the fathers also , and of whom as concerning the flesh christ came , paul , after he had shewed their high prerogatives above others , comes with alas , and great sorrow of heart , and much bewailing for their infidelity to exclude them , even all of them , save those few with whom the word of the gospel took effect , so as to gain them to believe , notwithstanding the antient and legall title , from the very name of israelites , and from standing abrahams children now any longer , for saith he ( as who should say the more is the pitty ) they are not all israell , that are of israel , i. e. all that are israelites after the flesh , are not the gospel israelites , or israelites in the gospels account , because few of them did receive it ; all that were abrahams seed after the flesh , and stood in his family , i. e. the vis●ble church of old , as being his seed cannot stand so now , for belivers onely , and such as are christs by faith are counted for the seed : that this is the meaning of those words is most evident by them that follows for ( saith he ) neither because they are the seed of abraham , i. e. his fleshly seed , are they called children , i. e , his children thereupon , as to his gospel covenant , but in isaac i. e. christ in the antitype shall thy seed be called , that is ( saith he ) expounding himself , and alluding to what was done allegorically , as in a figure , as concerning ishmael and isaac in abrahams family of old , the children of the flesh these are not the children of god , but the children of the promise are counted for the seed ; the children of the flesh , by which he means those that were born of abrahams body by isaac , who now stands in reference to christ , as ishmael did in the house of old in reference unto him , these are not the children of god , but the children of the promise , ( such was isaac in the legal , typicall , ceremonial and carnal account in relation to ishmael , for not ishmael but he and his posterity were the promised seed , which should inherit the old canaan , and such is christ in the reall , spiritual , evangelical and everlasting account in relation unto isaac himself , for not isaac and his seed as they were abrahams seed by sarah , though they were the children of the promise of the earthly canaan , and a promised seed in respect of ishmael , but christ who is the true isaac , and those that believe in him , among whom sith isaac was one he will inherit here also , as else he could not , these are the promised seed that must inherit heaven , rom. . , gal. . . these children of the promise , i. e. these that are of christ by faith , and so his seed after the faith , are accounted abrahams seed , his sons and heirs of the world with him , and of the eternal inheritance . a cleerer illustration of this to be the true sense and meaning of the spirit in rom. . you have in gal. . . . where the apostle uses this term , viz. [ they which are of the faith ] to express no other then the very same persons , whom he here stiles the children of the promise , know ye ( saith he there ) that they which are of the faith , i. e. which believe ( for none else are of faith that i know of ) the same are the children of abraham , and blessed with faithfull abraham , he saith not they which be of abrahams flesh , for such neither are accounted his children , as to the gospel promise , nor simply as such are heirs thereof with him , muchless doth he say or mean , that those which are born of the bodies of them that be of faith , are abrahams children , and such as must be signed as his sonnes , and heirs by baptism , in such wise as his own fleshly seed were signed by circumcision as heirs with him of the old canaan : yet these are your common sayings , who raise such a sort of seed to abraham at second hand , or third remove , as will never be able to prove their pedegree , or descent from him , either after the flesh , or after the faith either , till they believe themselves , whilest they breath on earth , as if because abraham is the spiritual father of all that believe and walk in his steps , and they his seed , and sons and heirs with him by promise of eternal life , therefore he must patrizare to all their natural posterity too , and be the spiritual father not of their persons onely , but of their off-spring also : but sirs , let me tell you he is not so much as a father to his own seed in the gospel sense , neither can they stand his children ; or the children of god , and heirs of the heavenly blessing and kindome , because they come out of his loines , unless they do as he did , for though his fleshly seed as a type for the time then being , stood denominated the children of god , and holy in an outward sense , and heirs according to the earthly promise , yet that account is gone now , and there 's no other way whereby the iews themselves , much less any generations among the gentiles , can be stiled the children of god or abraham , so as to expect the gospel portion , but believing in christ iesus in their own persons , gal. . . . ye are all the children of god by faith in iesus christ : if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise . another place which cleers it that abrahams own seed in the old covenants account are not his own in the account of the gospel , so as barely thereupon to stand in any title to either the priviledges or ordinances thereof , or to fellowship now in his family , is iohn . where christ being cavill'd at by the iews for promising them the priviledge of the gospel-freedom from sin , , to which they were slaves , servants and bondmen ( for all that legal freedom they did so boast of ) upon faith and continuance in his words , discovers so plainly that a man may run and read it , the discarding of the jews from all these three things which i am now proving , that for want of faith , they are perished from them since the gospel . first , from the repute and denomination of abrahams children any longer . secondly , from any share in the glorious , or spirituall blessing of the gospel . thirdly , from any right of abiding longer in the church , which they were the children of before , which church ( as visible ) now as well as then , and to the end of the world , since gods conferring the fatherhood of the faithful upon him , is called the house or family of abraham . first , they say in a snuff two or three times ore , that they are abrahams seed v. . that abraham is their father v. . that they are not born of fornication ( meaning as ishmael the son of the bond-woman , or servant to their mother sarah was ) but they had one father , even god v. . to which christ replies , not by denial of any of all this , for 't was true every tittle in that sense , in which they meant it , i. e. the typical sense and meaning of the old covenant , yea they were abrahams children , and this christ confesses in plain terms verse . i know you are abrahams seed ; yea they were also the children of god by an outward and typicall adoption of them unto himself , as his peculiar ones , and heirs of that typical inheritance , ezek. . . &c. but by telling them that abrahams children are accounted of otherwise now then formerly , viz. not as comming out of his ioines , but as doing his works , as being like him , and allied to him , not so much after the flesh as after the faith : whereupon they not yet believing , he denies them to be , and goes about to prove them not to be abrahams children in the true and substantial sense , in this hypothesis verse . if ye were abrahams children , ye would do the works of abraham , to which do but add the minor , viz. but ye do not the works of abraham , and the conclusion follows thus , viz. therefore ye are not the children of abraham : you see christ asserts them to be abrahams children in the old account , so as to stand members of the old house , but denieth them to be abrahams children in the sense of the new . secondly , they say they are free men , and were never in bondage to any man , to which christ replies by granting it was so indeed , in the outward typical sense that they were free men , and true heirs of that earthly glory , that was promised to abraham in that old canaan , but denies them to be freemen as to the gosspel , with that heavenly fredom of the ierusalem , which is above the mother of all true believers gal. . . yea in those spiritual respects , in which the son makes free indeed those that know and receive the truth and gospel , they were but servants verse . and in bondage to sin , which is the greatest slavery of all , as also paul sayes gal. . . that ierusalem was , which was of old , and was in bondage with her children , so he saies for all their sonship , yet in truth they are but servants and not sonnes , he grants their sonship , freedom , and title to the old inheritance , but denies their son and heirship as to the new . thirdly , they boast and bless themselves in their standing in the house or family of abraham , i. e. the church , as to the ordinances , rights and priviledges whereof who but themselves had the title ? for this indeed was their advantage of old , that to them were committed all the oracles of god , to which christ replies , true they did stand in the house for a time , yet but for a time , and though sons and heirs in the laws typical sense , yet they were were but servants in the gospels , because they believe not in him , and being but servants ( as moses and all his house or church the old israel were , in comparison of christ the son , and his house or church , i. e , the saints ) they must anon be packing out of the house , and abide in the church i. e. abrahams family no longer , that the true sons and heirs may come in , i. e. believers , who are the blessed seed to whom onely the gospel-promises and priviledges do belong , ver . . and the servant ( saith he ) abideth not in the house for ever , but the son abideth ever , if therefore the son make you free , and that he doth not for all your former freedome , unless you believe in him , and continue in his words , then shall ye be free indeed , even to the glory , oracles and blessings of the spiritual house the gospel-church , which else you must be cut off from for ever : thus christ tells them , and so indeed it came to passe within a while , for not believing and repenting , which are the only terms that give right and admittance to the ordinances and fellowship of the gospel , these iews though natural branches of abraham still as much as ever , if being the fleshly seed of a believer could have steaded them at all , as to a standing here , were yet clean broken off from the root abraham , as he st●nds a root to all the faithful , because onely of unbelief , rom. . . when such as were wild olives , and no kin at all to abraham after the flesh , were in their own persons , but not their natural seed with them ( save as they believed with them ) own'd as his children by believing , and as members of the true church under the gospel . and this was also most directly declared by iohn the baptist , and the rest of the first ministers of the gospel , who would not admit of the jews as jews , though abrahams own seed , and holy by birth , and members thereupon of that church under the law to baptism , and membership in the gospel-church , when they offered themselves upon the aforenamed terms , without faith , repentance , and amendment ; for howbeit the pharisees and saduces and the whole multitude of people came forth to be baptized of iohn , mat , . . &c. luke . . &c. pretending and pleading that if baptism were a church-priviledge , it must needs belong to them , as who were the children of abraham , yet see how he rounds them up as having no part nor portion in that matter : o generation of vipers saith he ) who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come ? as if he had said , what have you to do with that remission of sinnes , righteousness and redemption from wrath to come , which i preach and baptize in token of , being though invested with circumcision , church-membership and other legal rites and priviledges , yet corrupt and crooked in conversations ? bring forth therefore , i. e. to the end that you may be admitted , baptized , and inchurched here , fruits answerable to amendment of life , and begin not , ( its like that plea was in their thoughts and mouths too , whereupon he puts them off from it ) think not to say that we have abraham to our father , we are the seed of such an eminent believer , for god is able of these stones to raise up children to abraham , i. e. god will , without being beholding to you , raise a seed to abraham , rather then want them , from among these stones , which whether he meanes stones litterally , or the gentiles which were yet as stocks and stones in their eies , i leave you further to examine , but thus much we may gather hence however , that even in that very time wherein the birth-priviledge and holiness of a fleshly seed stood in full force and power unrepealed ( as then it did ) so far as to give right to all ordinances of the law , yet , even then i say before , how much more since the abrogation thereof by faith , abrahams own seed could not , much less then may the seed of believing gentiles , now it s repealed , ( as such ) be admitted to baptism without repentance : the jews as impenitent and unbelieving as they were , stood uncast out of the jewish church , while that jewish church it self was yet standing , but they could not passe per saltum out of that church into the gospel church , nor immediately from their right to circumcision , which meer fleshly birth gave them , prove their right , without somewhat more , to baptism ; yet thus they might have done , if what gave right of old to one of these ordinances , doth in like manner inright persons to the other , and this that abrahams own naturall seed do not now stand his seed , so as thereupon onely , or at all to stand in this house of abraham , i. e. the visible church of the gospel , and in title to the promises and priviledges thereof , is further and more lively figured out to our understandings in that admirable allusion of paul to the things transacted of old , as a type hereof in the family of abraham , between the two mothers and their children , viz. hagar and sarah , ishmael and isaac , gal. . . to the end , where ( to give you but a hint of the thing , that you may follow it in your own thoughts at leasure ) having first related what is written of abrahams having two sonnes , one by his bond-maid hagar , viz. ishmael , that was born after the flesh , the other by the free woman , or his true wife sarah , viz. isaac , who though born of abrahams flesh as well as the other , yet because he was promised to come of abrahams true spouse sarah , long before he did , was said to be born by promise , he asserts these things to be an allegory , i. e. things which though really and truly done , yet were done also in a figure , and as a shadow of some other things to come viz. the two covenants and two seeds of abraham thereunto belonging , or the two several jerusalems or churches of the law and the gospel , with their several children viz. the fleshly seed of abraham and the spiritual , each answering respectively , not only as anti-types to their several types , that point●d at them , whether the maid and her son , or the mistriss and hers , but also inter se invicem , as the two mothers and their children did , each of them unto the other , for these ( saith he ) i. e. these two mothers and children , the bondwoman and her son , and the freewoman and her son , are the two covenants or testaments , meaning in signification , or in way of resemblance of them , the one from mount sinai , the other from mount sion , both spoken of , and to the life also pointed out one ore against the other in heb. . . to the end , that from mount sinai , or that testament , which was given in the hand of the media●or moses , that gendreth to bondage , or enthrawles her children , this is hagar , for this hagar who brought out her son to bondage is ( saith he ) mount sinai in arabia , or that law of moses given on mount sinai in arabia , and answereth to , i. e. as a type points out , and signifies the ierusalem that now is , i. e. the church of the iews before christ , which notwithstanding her childrens abode i● the house of abr●ham , and her hagarlike flaunting , and vaunting her self over the other for a time , as if she were the onely mistriss , whose seed must inherit all , yet in comparison of the true mother , and her seed , viz. the gospel ierusalem , which was yet to come , was but in bondage with her children , and must when that seed once should come in , be chashiered and cast quite and clean out of doors as a seed to be no more accounted on , so far as to abide with the other : for nevertheless ; i , e. all her present liberty , and immunity notwithstanding , what saith the scripture ? ( saies he ) cast out the bond woman and her son , for the son of the bond woman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman , i. e. the seed of the old covenant of the earthly ierusalem , viz. the natural seed of abraham , shall not share in priviledges , nor the inheritance promised in the gosspel together with the spiritual seed , viz. the believers or children of the church under the gospel . thus as hagar , and her son ishmael , that stood in abrahams house a while , and were proud and insolent , as if they should have dwelt there for ever , were at last packt out before isaac the true son and heir by promise of the old inheritance , and ordinance , when he was born , and before sarah , who would not indure to have ishmael have any portion in canaan , or any room in the house with her son isaac , so also sarah her self , and her son isaac , i mean the fleshly ierusalem , and jew that dwelt as mistris , and heir for a time in the house , inheriting only some outward excellencies , and enjoyments , were at last , being found mocking thereat , cast out of the house , i. e. the church , the son-ship , the glory , and all before the true mother and her children , viz , the gospel church or true sarah , and the true isaac , christ and his saints , or seed of believers , who will not bear nor brook it to have a meer fleshly seed , though of abraham himself , much less of any gentile believers , to dwell with them in the family : isaac and the fleshly israelites were by promise to inherit the old testament priviledges , and the ishmaelites were not suffered ( as such ) to partake with them therein ; christ and believers are by promise to receive the eternal inheritance , nor is any mans fleshly posterity , no not abrahams own by isaac , i mean the israelites themselves ( as such ) permitted or promised to participate therein : ishmael though as abrahams seed after the flesh he had a portion , yet had nothing to do with that of isaac the child of promise in the type ; isaac though abrahams son , not only after the flesh , but by promise too ( as in reference to ishmael ) and so in true title to a better portion then ishmaels , viz. the earthly canaan , and that as a type for a time , yet being but his fleshly seed in comparison to christ , and believers , and by his bare fleshly birth ( save only that he was a spirituall child also by believing ) as inferior to them , as ishmael was to himself , hath nought at all to do ( as the fleshly seed of abraham ) with that heavenly portion that belongs to these . now then if it be so ( and so it will appear to him that doth not trifle , but truely understand the scriptures , and this last especially which with many more viz , heb. . heb. . speak expresly of two distinct covenants or testaments , made with two sorts of seeds of abraham concerning two canaans , viz. an earthly and a heavenly , whereof one all along was a type of the other , for a time only , and now ended , contrary to all our blind seers , that confound , and blindly blend both of them into one ) if so i say that abrahams own sons by bodily birth are not now his own in gospel account , nor heirs ( as so born only ) of the gospel promise and inheritance , nor house dwellers in the gospel church , for want of personal faith , though abrahams children after the flesh still as much as ever , then i cannot but stand amazed at the perverseness of you the priesthood in three things . first in that meerly because you and your people do believe ( and i would to god you did believe , for so but few , for all your flourish of either you or your people do indeed ) therefore you count your natural seed the seed of abraham , this you express in plain terms in your review p. . secondly in that , even eâtenùs , as your children only , you hold them heirs of the promise of the gospel covenant made with abraham . thirdly in that you sign them as visibly such by baptism ( as you call it ) and thereby admit them into membership in the gospel church ( as you call it ) and having yet no evidence of their belief , conclude them under a true title to all outward ordinances , save such as upon your own heads only you keep from them , if by the word they have such title to church-fellowship , as you say they have , viz. the supper , of which you make them snap short , as much , and as groundlessly to the full ( if baptism at all belong to them ) as we in baptism . sirs , let me reason with you a little , and begg some cool consideration , and ingenuous answer from you concerning these particulars . first which way come your natural seed , you being but gentiles in the flesh , to be the seed of abraham ? secondly why do you , or how can you sign them as heirs of the gospel promise so simply upon that account only ? there are but two seeds of abraham that i know of in all the world , viz. . his seed after the flesh , and such are all those that are born of his body , viz. ishmael , and his children by keturah , to whom he gave portions , and those that came of him by isaac and jacob , which only ( for esau sold his birth-right ) were heirs with him of the land of canaan . . his seed after the faith , and such are those only that walk in his steps rom. . . that do his works john . who are also by that same faith which denominates them his children , said to be christs also , and the children of god , and heirs with him of the world according to the gospell promise , rom. . , . gal. . . cor. . . . . non datur tertium semen abrahae : two seeds of abraham the scripture mentions , but a third sort cannot be assigned , all and only those that descend from his loines as the midianites and others by keturah , the ishmaelites by hagar , the edomites and israelites by sarah , which last only were the holy seed , and children of promise in reference to the hagarens in a type and sole heirs of the typical canaan , all these i say were the first sort , all believers , of what nation soever , are the second sort , but the natural seed of believers are neither of the one nor of the other . as for the children of the proselites , i. e. iews not by birth , but profession , which by way of exception against this may possibly pop into some of your minds , i utterly deny them ( as so born ) to be any seed of abraham at all , or heirs of either inheritance , unless they believed also , though their parents ( believing ) might be his spiritual seed , and heirs of the heavenly inheritance ; and if you ask why then was every male among the infants of proselites circumcised ? i answer not upon any such account as their being abrahams seed , or heirs with him of either this or that , but meerly as they were males in the house of one that was a jew , at least by devotion , though a stranger as to fleshly relation , that being the express command of god , for the time then being , and during the standing of that covenant of circumcision ( the like to which if you had for infant-baptism , the controversie were at an end between us ) that every man child in every family throughout all generations , whether born in the house or bought with money of any stranger , that was no● of abrahams flesh should be circumcised , gen. . . for there was but one law and ordinance for the stranger , or proselite iew , and him that was a iew by birth concerning circumcision and the passeover , numb . . . upon this same and no other account very many , viz. forreign man-servants , in every family of any iew , were by appointment to be circumcised , meerly as being males of the family , though neither born of abraham , nor believing with him , nor any way at all his seed , nor yet heirs with him of either canaan , which injunction and order of god concerning that old covenant ordinance of circumcision , or the passeover either , to which the supper answers , more lively than baptism to the other , if we might at all regard what was done then , as a rule for us now , who so shall produce as the pattern or infer any thing from as the instution of god , according to which we are to act in the new testament ordinances of baptism , and the supper ; and yet not act according to them neither , but abominably besides them both ( as the priest-hood doth , baptizing ( as not at all but rantizing so ) not at all after the manner of circumcision , viz. not males only , not on the eighth day only , but any other , when they may as well upon that , not servants also upon the masters , faith as well as the children upon the parents , and as for the supper denying it utterly to infants that might then eat the passeover ) i avouch them to be not a little besides their natural , but much more besides their spiritual intellectualls . let this then satisfy as to any conceit , that any may have , as that the proselites seed were the children of abraham , and heirs with him because circumcised , viz. that though all abrahams seed that were heirs with him were circumcised , yet all that were circumcised were not thereby proved to be abrahams seed , nor heirs with him of either promise , and though his fleshly seed , israel the heir especially , and his spirituall seed also , i. e. believing jewes , and proselites were both thereupon to come under that dispensation , and that as heirs too severally of the two severall promises , viz. the typifying , and typified canaan , yet many past under circumcision upon that forenamed account only , of being males in the house , that were neither abrahams seed after the flesh nor after the faith , as servants , and the seed of proselite masters , fathers , not appearing yet to believe with them ; for even such were to be circumcised under the law , though ( by your leave ) not such to be by the like reason baptized under the gospell , for as there is no command for such a matter , so if there had , the servants of the eunuch ( himself only turning christian ) must have been ( as t is known they were not ) baptized together with him : besides if baptism must be like to circumcision in its subject , then not only he that is not yet apparently an heir , but he also that is apparently not an heir by faith must be baptized , aswell as abrahams sonne ishmael , and his servant eleazer , and all the other males of his house were circumcised , who were all well enough known to abraham , to be none of the heirs of that land of canaan , whereof circumcision was given to him , and his seed in isaac , in token of their inheriting of it , at that very time when he circumcised them . i demand therefore yet once again , what seed of abraham your infants are , in that thereupon you undertake ( as so ) to baptize them ? you tell us in your review , pag. . they are semen fidei , the children of his faith , his spiritual seed ; i am ashamed to hear you say so , which way do they come to be , in that minority , his spiritual seed , sith believers only are so ? you seem to tell us they are so by believing themselves , for so zachaeus , say you , by believing was made the son of abraham , as who should say zachaeus became , as infants do , the spiritual seed of abraham by believing , which word believing is as much as not having only , but acting faith , which to act not others only but your selves , who sillyly assert them to have faith , do somewhat more sensibly p. . confess them to be uncapable . others tell us , and even your selves too sometimes , and in effect in that very same page , that they are semen fidei , or the seed of abrahams faith , upon another account , viz. as their parents are believers , for the promise is ( say you , though that is no scripture phrase at all in that place whence you quote it , viz. act . . ) to believers and their seed , and if the adversaries say that the iewes were semen carnis , and had right by the promise so these say you concerning the seed of believers , are semen fidei , and the promise is to them ; which words , the promise , the promise , the promise , you will scrible down twenty times in one treatise before you will sit down once and search out seriously what it is , or once shew distinctly what it is you mean by it . so then howbeit with iohn baptist , mat. . with christ , iohn . luke . , . with paul rom. . . , , . gal. . . . there is but one way of becoming abrahams spiritual seed , or the children of his faith , so as thereupon to be signed by baptism as heirs with him of the gospel-promise , and this is not by being the fleshly posterity of a believer , though it should be of believing abraham himself , for even his own fleshly were not his spiritual seed , but onely as they believed with him , but by bringing forth fruits of repentance , doing his works , treading in the steps of his faith , you belike have found more wayes to the wood then one , whereof when ones failes you in the fight , you commonly take your flight by the other , and with you there 's two wayes whereby persons , nay , which is a greater mystery , whereby the same persons , even believers infants in their very infancy , may and do become abrahams spiritual sons and heirs , viz. first by their own walking in the steps of abrahams faith , i. e. believing themselves , which though it be the true way of becoming abrahams spirituall seed , yet infants are not capable to walk in it . secondly , by being the natural progeny of believing parents ; which though infants are capable of it , yet is none of the way whereby to be canonized , according to the sense of scripture , the spirituall seed of abraham . but it seems the terms upon which persons become heirs with abraham of gospel-promises , and stand in true title to gospel-ordinances , are not uniform , but multiform in your imagination , for those on which persons in the capacity of parents are priviledged with the title of abrahams spiritual seed , and title to gospel-ordinances and enjoyments , are their own believings not anothers ; but those on which others , i. e. all that are in the capacity of children to those parents are thus highly priviledged , are the believing of their parents , whether they have any faith of their own yea or no , and yet some count that the childs own faith which the parent professes for him . but genus , et pro avos , et quae non fecimus ipsi vix ea nostra voco . sirs , what pretty intricate blind bo-beep divinity is this of yours ? do the same priviledges and promises belong to the believing parents and their children , and yet though exhibited to them both alike in one and the self same phrase and form of speech ( for saith peter the promise is to you and your children , and to them that are farre off yea even as many ( meaning of you and your children and of them that are far off ) as the lord shall call ) do they belong upon such various and different grounds , viz. to the parents upon their own faith , to the children upon the parents faith ? my father then it seems , what ere his fathers were , must prove his pedegree from abraham by his doing as abraham did , or else he can be no gospel-son , nor share at all in any gospel-priviledges and immunities , but if he were a believer , i his son may prove mine at easier rates by farr , viz. by going no further then the faith and faederation of my father . but sirs , will this hold a triall think you by the word ? is there any such manglements as these to be found there ? is it to be found there that now under the gospel-covenant since that outing of the old covenant , and that fleshly seed , that were heirs of it , and all the tipical pertinencies thereof the faith and faederation of fathers inrights and enrouls all their fleshly seed as heirs with them of salvation , without any evidence of their believing themselves ? then tell me why the fleshly seed of those great believers , abraham , isaac , and iacob stand excommunicated from all gospel-priviledges , participations of ordinances , promises , &c. even from the beginnings of the gospel church and first administring of baptism to this very day ? will you plead your own right above theirs to stand his children in the gospel-church by saying , we had holy men and believers to our fathers , but their fathers believed not the gospel , therefore worthily are they cut off with them ? i reply thus , were not abraham , isaac and iacob their fleshly fathers ? and though remote ones , yet were they not their true fathers after the flesh still as much as ever ? did iohn mat. . and christ iohn . and peter acts . deny them a standing in the gospel house and admission unto baptism and membership without repentance and belief in their own persons , and doing the works of abraham ? did they i say put such off from all gospel-expectations and priviledges who offered themselves thereto with this plea , viz. we have abraham to our father ? and dare you admit such without faith or repentance , for whom you can make no higher pretence then this , viz. they are the children of believers ? me thinks if meer birth-priviledges and fleshly descent , must carry it still without faith in the seed themselves , are not the iews infants to this day higher born then any gentiles infants in the world , whose parents are believers ? for they verily can say no less then this , we are the natural issue of the father of all the faithfull , yet may they not be own'd barely upon that account to gospel-ordinances , and if the natural seed , and that by isaac and iacob of abraham himself the grand believer , which seed could of old claim a room by right of birth from abraham in the house of moses , cannot possibly carry it so high under christ , as by the same descent , onely without faith in themselves , to gain a standing in his house , or so much as right to be stiled their own natural fathers children ( as to the gospel ) i am amazed to see you gentile believers to conferre upon your meer natural seed the name of abrahams spiritual seed , and denominate your semen carnis his semen fidei . 〈◊〉 the iews , though the natural seed of abraham , yet cannot have the account of the spiritual seed , nor any right to gospel priviledges because they believe not themselves , which if they did they should have right to the gospel as well as we who believe , but sith they abide in unbelief they are cut off from all share in these things . baptist. then learn once i beseech you this lessen from your selves , which you will not learn from iohn , christ and paul , viz. that the ground of standing abrahams spiritual seed , sons and heirs ; and church-members under the gospel is not the the faith and faederation of the parents , by vertue of which you plead your childrens right to baptism , saying they have believers , as the jews once to iohn pleaded theirs , saying , we have abraham to our father , but faith it self in the particular persons so standing , for so many jews , heathens , infidels children as are of the faith of abraham , i. e. not born of faithful parents , but faithful themseves ( as he was ) are incorporated ; incovenanted , inchurched as abrahams seed , and evangelically blessed with faithful abraham ; but till even believers children , yea abrahams own believe themselves , the parents faith cannot now possibly ingraft them , the time of faith or standing by faith alone in the house , or visible church of god being now come in , the standing by any fleshly generation what soever is done away , yea abrahams own children , the naturall branches that grow out of his loynes are cut off from standing ( as till chirist they did ) now any longer upon their own root abraham , because of unbelief . i say then that no infant in infancy , of what believing parent soever , is either abrahams spiritual seed , or dying in infancy is saved upon any such account as a believers seed , or abrahams seed , nor whilst living an infant onely , may be signed by baptism as an heir apparent of salvation : for if abraham stand not a spiritual father to his own meer fleshly seed , he stands not so sure to the meer fleshly seed of any believing gentile , for that were to priviledge every ordinary believer , and his natural seed above either himself or his own . nor doth this hinder , or deny the salvation of the dying infants of believers , or dispose them ere the sooner ( muchless necessarily ) to damnation , to say they are not abrahams spirituall seed ( quâ believers infants ) nor heirs to salvation upon any such account as that , for though neither upon that , nor any other account at all they may warrantably be baptized , yet it s more then possible , or probable either ( because infallible ) that there 's other scripture account enough , upon which when we see them die in infancy we may assert them undoubtedly not to be damned ; for as it is most sure and true , that all that are apparently ( if really ) abrahams spiritual seed by faith must so living , so dying be saved , in token and farther evidence of which to themselves more then others they are by the good wil of christ to be baptized , yet is it neither true , nor necessary that all that are saved must be abrahams spiritual seed by faith , but most certain that some shall be saved , that never were abrahams seed in any sense at all , witnesse not onely the faithful fore-fathers of abraham , for he was their seed , and not they his , but also all dying infants of what parents soever both before abrahams time , and since , of whom to salvation notwithstanding those are the onely termes on which it belongs to adult ones , to whom it s preacht , mark . , . these being truly capable of neither , 't is not required that they should either repent , believe or be baptized . i know this iustification of dying infants without faith is uncouth , and little less , for all it holds forth so much salvation , then damnable doctrine among you divines , that plead the contrary , but i shall by the help of god make it good to the faces of you all , when i come to consider the baldness of your consequence in this point , as you give me good occasion to do in some places , where me thinks you meddle with it somewhat clumsily , as it were in mittins , as if because there 's no other way revealed for the salvation of such by christ , to whom the gospel is preached , who are capable to hear , and do what 's required , for such onely the word universally speaks of , when it speaks of salvation in that way , but the way of belief and actuall obedience onely , therefore there 's no other way for the salvation of dying infants by christ , who can possibly neither believe in him , nor obey him , which as it is such shameful stuff , that i cannot bear it with out inward blushing at your blindness , so whether you have not as much cause to be ashamed on 't within your selves is well worth your inmost inquiry . i say therefore again , so far is this from excluding dying infants of believers from entrance into the kingdome of heaven , to say they are neither abrahams spiritual seed by faith , nor heirs thereof upon that ground onely of being so , that it rather concludes and supposes there 's some other ground that is common with them to the innocent infants of even infidels , and all the world , upon which these , whom , though they are hundreds to one , yet your selves in your fierce wrath , and merciless cruelty devote universally to damnation , may dying in infancy universally be saved also ; which ground if you will yet know it , is the righteousness of christ , the free imputation of which universally from the father saves not onely all that believe from both that , and their actuall transgressions too , but even the whole world , whether they believe it or no from the the imputation of adams transgression ; so that none at all ever perish upon that account , in which respect he is said to be the saviour of all men , but especially of them that believe : much more doth it , and that without faith , save all dying infants , who as they believe not , so have not as yet by any actual sin bard themselves , or deserved exemption , or become liable at all to the second death , i. e. the damnation of hell , which befalls not any but upon personal neglect of the light and grace of life , brought in by the second adam , as the first death onely overtakes mankind for onely that sin of the first adam . babist . if all dying infants are saved then not few but many , if not the maior part must be saved , contrary to that of christ , mat. . . . luke . . . where he saith few there are that are saved . baptist. there are indeed but few inter adultos among persons that come to years , of whom alone , and not of infants at all christ there speaks , and even every where else , where he speaks to us of the way of life , and this is plain by the reason he there gives why so few are saved , which is the straitness of the gate , and narrowness of the way that leads to life , viz. of self-denial , and suffering for christ , which men mostly being very loath to walk in , it comes to pass that few of them come to life by it ; but infants being altogether uncapable to walk in it , are are altogether dis-ingaged from walking in it till they come to capacity so to do , and yet are not damn'd for not walking in it : when we come to years of understanding , and to apprehend the good will of god to us , in providing a saviour for us , his good will concerning us in order to salvation by him is , that we believe in him and obey him , and apply his righteousness unto our selves , gal. . . but whilst we are yet in such minority , as neither to know what god hath done for us , nor to be capable of putting on the lord iesus our selves , he himself is pleased to impute his righteousness to salvation to us so dying , even as we our selves , whilst our infants are new born , do not onely provide , but also put on what clothes we have provided in our pitty towards them , for the covering of their nakedness , but when they come to years of such discretion as to discern , and be sensible of their own shame , and capable to dress themselves with their own hands , we expect when in our love we have once provided raiment for them , they should put it on themselves , or go without it : thus candid are we towards the dying infants of all sorts : nevertheless , though we tell you of our charity towards them , and of your own cruelty in sending all heathen infants to hell , and this no less then twenty times over , yet we must expect to hear it from ore the pulpit cloth twenty times ore again , before the devil be dead , how blessed and charitable your doctrine is , and what most bloody and cruel opinionists the anabaptists are concerning infants . infants then i say of what parents soever are either such as die in the personall innocency of their own infancy , and so are universally saved , and yet in token , or as a sign thereof to themselves there 's neither need , nor sense , nor reason to baptize them ; or else such as live to understanding , and then they appear , either not to do abrahams works , and then we own them not yet as abrahams seed , though born of believing parents , yea though of believing abraham himself , not as heirs according to the gospel-promise , or else to belieue in christ , and walk in the steps of abraham , and then of what parents soever , though of infidels , we are to own them as abrahams spiritual seed , and such as ( so abiding ) are heirs apparent by promise of the heavenly canaan : this we can never discern by them in their infancy , not knowing yet whether they shall die infants , or live to years , nor whether when they come to years they will reject christ or receive him . to conclude this then , that any mans fleshly seed in the world is upon the meer account of their natural descent of such or such parents , or further then as dying in infancy they have no actual sin to condemn them , or living to act sin they believe in christ ( in both which cases the seed of unbelievers are as capable of salvation as the seed of believers themselves ) are by promise heirs of salvation , and in token thereof are to be baptized , and in baptism visibly sign'd ( more then other children ) as children o● god , members of christ , and inheritors of the kingdom of heaven , t is a lesson which i learn'd once by roat , and had by root of heart , when in the minority of my standing in the false ministry with you , i was verst in the priests primmer of common-prayer , and ( as to gospel-administrations ) was skild but little further then the psalter , but when i once turn'd over a new leaf , and began ●o advance a little further , even into the scripture , which in some volumes was in those dayes annexed as some certain appendix at the end of it , i could never read that lesson perfectly since , neither can i learn now that any mans fleshly seed , that lives and yet believes not , can make any clearer claim of kindred to abraham as their father , or to the gospel inheritance by a meer bodily birth of believers only , then i can make of my kindred to the great turk , and of my tight to succeed him ( as his heir ) in his dominion , by pleading that between them both his grandmother and mine had four elbowes . now therefore sirs , let it be seriously considered by you , that that outward meer denominative birth holiness , which was once in the seed of the iews , and is now supposed , and asserted by you to be in the seed of believing gentiles , as it was then peculiar to that people only ; that were iews by either nature or religion , so it is now universally and utterly ended in christ crucified , and no more to have a being among them , or any other people under heaven . it was not by christ comming communicated , or ( as mr. blake cloudily contends , throughout his mistaken treatise of birth-priviledge , and covenant holiness ) conveyed from the iews to believing gentiles , and their seed , but clearly cashiered , and confiscated , so that ther 's now no such thing to be found at all . 't is not devolved downwards but rather resolved into that gospel truth , and substance which it shadowed out , yea and totally dissolved , ecclipsed , annihilated , swallowed up ( as the light of the moon before the sun ) being clothed upon with a far greater , and more glorious holiness than it self ; for as the type was in time to give way , and be gone when the thing typified thereby should once come into existence , so all that old covenant holiness even the holiness of that seed isaac , and his posterity as well as other things that were predicated by it , was , as but a type of a more perfect hol●nes , and holy seed to come , to flee away , as ishmael before himself , when once christ should come , and that holy seed to stand in the house to whom the promises of the gospel do belong . babist . this seed you speak of , viz. believers was come before christ , and in being under the law as well as now , therefore they sure cannot be the holy seed shadowed out by that holy seed that came of isaac . baptist. true the gospel holy seed was under the law , but not the laws holy seed under the gospel , the substance being ever when and where the shadow is , but the shadow not alwaies when and where the substance : novum testamentum semper & ubique fuit in vetere velatum , vetus non in novo , nisi revelatum : the law , and its holy things are not in being , but only revealed what they were , under the gospel , but the gospel , and its holy things were in being ( though veiled over ) under the law , and yet for all that the gospel is said truly to come then , because it came not into its full force till christ came , so faith is said to come in with christ , gal. . . . not as if there were no faith in the world before , but because both the fulness of the things before believed came in then , and things before believed came then into full force and act , and also because the way of standing in the church , which before was chiefly by a fleshly birth , comes now to be no otherwise then by a spirituall birth from above , by faith in christ iesus , rom. . thou standest by faith ( faith paul , speaking of the manner of the gospel standing in the visible church ) so that the holy seed , and heirs of the gospel covenant i. e. believers , which are the seed of christ , esay , . he shall see his seed , are said to come then , though there was such a seed in the world from the beginning thereof , because they then came to dwell alone as it were in the house , where ishmael the sonne of the bondwoman ( to speak after the allegory ) i mean the fleshly israelites , a meer fleshly seed dwelt together with them ( as ishmael did with isaac , till he was cast out ) in former time ; for even as ishmael the servant dwelt as it were the son and heir in the house till isaac was born , and then after a while was cast out , that isaac the true heir might dwell alone , and such as should successively come from him , so israel after the flesh , though a servant in reference to the gospel israel , dwelt , and domineered , as the only child of the church till christ the true isaac was born , and then after a while was cast out of the church , that his seed might dwell there alone forever after . babist . if it be so that believers only a●e that holy seed which is now to stand in the visible church ; how is it that you baptize , and ●nchurch such among you sometimes as are no true believers ? baptist. we receive all that we receive by baptism into the church under the notion of true believers only ; and such they are so far as we are capable to conceive by that outward profession of faith , upon which only we admit them ; but if our charity be so mistaken ( as that of the apostles themselves was in the like case ) that persons after either appear to be hypocrites , or prove apostates , we have warrant from the word , according to which we also act , to cast them out again , as those that have no right at all to stand there , whilest by their works they seem to be unbelievers , till by some future and clearer fruits thereof we can guess them groundedly to be converted truly to the faith . all then that we can say of the holiness , and holy things that were under the first covenant , which had then ordinances of divine service , but carnal ones , and a worldly sanctuary , an humane , infirm , and imperfect high-priest-hood , an earthly inheritance , a fleshly seed , which yet were all holy for the time then being , all ( i say ) that can be now said of them , is this , they were typical , ceremonial , and abiding only till the time of gospell reformation , heb. . . and are now all abrogated , and out of date , so that we may say ( as he fuit ilium ) so fuit canaan , fuit urbs , fuit lex , fuit templum , fuit sanctum sanctorum , fuit sacerdotium , fuit sacrosanctum semen : there was indeed a holy land , a holy city , a holy law , a holy temple , a holy priest-hood , a holy seed , but all these belonging to a first covenant , which was faulty , and so gave place in time to a second ; all ornaments , furniture , and accomplishments of a covenant , that decayed , waxed old , was ready to vanish , and is now long since vanished before a better , there were priviledges , there was a freedome , there was a rest , there was a holiness ; there was a glory , there was a mosaical ministration , but as it was less glorious by far then the gospel ministration of christ , so , as the shine of a star when the sun rises , it past away , and perished from before it , when the other came in , so that they were at a loss that then did , as those are that still do dote , though but in part , upon it , not looking stedfastly to the end of that which is now abolished , and not considering that all that glory is done away and hath something remaining in its stead that is more glorious than it , nor that all that which was made glorious and holy , as a type , for a while , viz. the holy city , the glorious holy mountain , the holy priesthood , holy temple , holy root , holy branches , and what ever else was so denominated , hath now no glory , nor holiness at all upon it by reason of a glory that excelleth , cor. . . , . . babist . abraham is still an holy root , and his children holy branches , even now under the gospel , as well as of old under the law , and so are believing parents to their seed , as the iews of old were to their children , for saith paul rom. . . if the first fruit be holy , so is the lump ; and if the root be holy , so are the branches , at mr. blake also well observeth in his birth-priviledge p. . baptist. that the root here is abraham for my part i freely grant you , since t is supposed you have so much advantage by it , although t is sub judice among some , whether by the root in that place be not meant christ , because the standing upon it is said to be by faith only , which is that only that ingrafts persons into christ , and ( as some say ) ingrafts them into christ only , and not any other : and that by the olive-tree is meant the house or family of abraham i. e. the visible church , and that the branches , and lump that are here said to be holy , are abrahams children al●o , but i beseech you let it be considered that abraham was a root two wayes , or a double holy root , standing respectively so to a two-fold lump , or two sorts of holy branches , viz , natural and spiritual , his children after the flesh , and after the faith , his typically and ceremonially holy seed , and his morally and really holy seed , his sons by generation and heirs by promise of the the earthly canaan , i. e. the carnal israelites , and his sonnes by regeneration i. e. the saints and believers , who are heirs by promise of the heavenly canaan , and the true israelites in whom is no guile ; under the ●irst covenant , or old testament abraham stood a holy root to his natural branches born of his body by isaac and iacob , which also in a figure and pro tempore , to shadow out the holy seed to come , that should inherit heaven , were ( by bare denomination more then inward qualification ) a holy seed , inheriting a figurative holy land ; but under t●e gospel , the substance being come in place , that shadow is fled , and howbeit abraham is a holy root now unto the end of the world , as well as before , yet not now any longer to his own fleshly seed by isaac , much less the meer carnal seed of believing gentiles , but to the other sort of seed , viz. the children of his faith , that walk in his steps , and do his works , for the natural branches of his own body are now broken off , and can stand no more a holy seed , and branches in reference to that holy root abraham for the want of faith , but the other i. e. all , and onely such as believe , of what nation or parents soever , jews or gentiles , are now counted for his seed , and stand holy branches to that holy root abraham , and the holy lump to him , who was ( as it were ) a certain first fruits unto god of the whole body of believers , and chosen of god to be a father of the faithful , and a holy root for ever to all persons that in after ages should believe , to which honor he was also sealed by circumcision . the true visible church then , of olive-tree , in which there 's fatness and fulness ( as david saith i shall be filled with the fatness of thy house ) is counted his family to the end , in which there 's now no right of admittance , or continuance ( as of old ) for his own fleshly seed , the very iews , that were an holy seed before the time of faith came , much less for any other mans natural seed without faith , but for those onely even those individual persons that do believe . there 's no room by right for any else in the house of abraham the gospel-church , whose members are born unto it not of flesh , but of faith , not by being of abraham himself , but as abraham himself was , not by being of believers after the flesh , but by being believers with them . in the allegory , while isaac the typical promised seed was only in the word of promise , and not in actual being ishmael dwelt in the house , but soon after he came into the world ishmael must abide in the house no longer , so while christ the true isaac , typified by the other , to whom the gospel promises were made , was but barely in the promise , the fleshly israel vaunted it in the church , but when the fulnesse of time was come for him to be incarnate , and in esse reali , that fleshly holy seed , much more the fleshly seed of believing gentiles could have no right of residence in the family of abraham , nor are any ( saving believers ) allowed members thereof to this very day . babist . but it seems to be the iews themselves , even the naturall seed of abraham , to which in that rom. . . abraham is said by paul to stand a holy root , if it be considered with reference to the verse before , where he speaks plainly of them , as in contradistinction to believieng gentiles , therefore abrahams own fleshly seed , are holy branches still of that holy root . baptist. in no wise as they are his natural seed onely , but as they may hereafter be hoped to become his seed by faith also , and be grafted again upon their root abraham , and their own olive tree , i. e. the visible church , their fathers family , by believing and imbracing the gospel , from which they were broken off through unbelief ; in which if they abide not still they shall ( saith he verse . ) be grafted in again ; but never simply as they are his natural seed onely . abraham may be said to stand a holy root to his own bodily issue two wayes , first onely as they were born of his body by isaac and iacob , with whom ▪ and whose seed that typically holy covenant was established , which being now vanisht away , he is no longer such a holy root to those natural branches of his body as that they have any birth holiness now therefrom . secondly , as the same persons that were his natural seed might also be his spiri-seed by faith in christ , and so he is here said to be a holy root , and the jews in reference to him holy branches , viz. in respect not to their fleshly birth of him ( for as they are his natural branches onely , and no more they are broken off ) but in respect to their future calling to the faith , and receiving in again in time to come , upon account of their owning of the gospel : the spiritual branches onely are now grafted into the olive-tree , and growing up upon the root , the natural branches are broken off , and the root as a holy root to them withered , that holiness of it faded , it is alive as a holy root now to none but the believer , not its own natural branches , muchlesse to the natural branches of believing gentiles . babist . when the iews were broken off their naturall children were broken off with them , therefore when the believing gentiles were graf●ed in their stead their naturall children must in like manner be grafted in with them . 〈◊〉 . no such matter sirs , there 's either no good antecedent or else no good consequence in this : for first , if you mean as to the gospel , church and covenant , the children of the unbelieving jews are not so broken off , and excluded with their parents , in such a sence as you imagine , i. e. upon the account of their parents unbelief onely , but for want of faith in their own persons , and as succeeding their fathers in unbelief , for if any children of the unbelieving jews , when they come to years ( and children when at years are the naturall seed of their parents , i hope as well as in infancy it self , if being the children of such or such parents alone would either ingraft or exclude ) if i say unbelieving iews children do believe , the promise is so made to them , that their parents unbelief cannot exclude them , but if the children at years do not believe , the promise is so little made to believers , and their seed as that the parents belief availes no further then to the engrafting of himself , and he cannot at all entitle all his natural seed by his single faith , nor as heirs of the same heavenly inheritance with him , inright them to the ordinance in token of it : but if you mean as to the old church and covenant then secondly , it follows no more then if you should go about to make a way for the needle by the thred , that because the iews and their seed under the law were taken in , and thrown out of covenant altogether , so the gentiles under the gospel and their seed must be owned , and disowned thus collectiv●ly ; for as to that old covenant of the law , made with the fleshly israel concerning the earthly canaan , the very promise of that was made to the whole body of that nation and people , that came of abraham isaac and iacobs loins , in such a manner as that their infants were by very naturall descent according to the promise , as t●u●y and fully heirs of it as themselves , from which consequently , when once god took his advantage , by the breach first made on their part , to break it on his part also , he must necessarily turn them all out together , and so he did , discovenanting the whole nation at once , and as it is said in zach. . . breaking the covenant , which he had made with all the people , discarding and disinheriting them from all that glory in the lump ; but the gospel-covenant , and promise concerning the heavenly inheritance is not at all on this wise , but of a different nature , taking in no whole nation in the world , nor any one or more mens meer natural seed , no not abrahams , isaacs , and iacobs ( as the other did ) to all generations of its continuance , but rather sigillatim ) such several persons out of every nation , tongue , kindred and people that fear god , and work righteousness rev. . . act. . , . even all , and onely such as obey him : singulos generum credentes , not genera singulorum credentium , vel non . if therefore you speak of the jews standing upon the root abraham , and in the church before christ , upon the old covenant account , then i confess that the whole body of them were broken off altogether , and that as they , and their fleshly seed were all incovenanted , so they were all discovenanted at once , when that covenant of circumcision , which god gave to abraham , and his fleshly seed gen. . concerning the land of canaan was it self abolished in christ crucified ; but then the consequence will not hold from that covenant to this of the gospel ; these being two distinct and different covenants , the terms of standing in which are in no wise the same . but if you speak of the covenant of the gospel , then your antecedent is false , for i deny utterly that the jews and their seed were altogether alienated from that , further then every individual of them did cut themselves off from a right of standing therein by want of faith in their own persons , for as this covenant was never made with any men , and their meer fleshly seed , no not with abraham , isaac and iacob , and their natural posterity , so that a bare birth of their bodies doth ipso facto make them heirs of the heavenly inheritance promised therein ; nor give them a right ( as such only ) to be signed as true heirs thereof , but only with abraham and his spiritual seed , i. e. christ and all believers in him ; so no men and all their naturall posterity are outed from it together , but as both they , and their posterity do stand together in unbelief upon which account faith being the only way of standing heirs under the gospel , and the iews children proving unbelievers in all ages as well as their parents , i confess they are broken off together , and not otherwise , for if the children of the iews did appear to have faith ( as in infancy they cannot , and when they are grown up unversally they do not ) their parents infidelity could in no wise prohibit their standing ; and since neither in infancy , nor at age they appear to be in the faith , their parents in case they were never so faithful can in no wise intitle them to a standing , for then the natural seed of those thousands of iews which did believe in the primitive times , have a birth-priviledge , and holiness to this day , whereupon they may claim admittance unto baptism , as well as any , specially if those words rom. . . if the root be holy so are the branches , were to be taken in such a sense as you put upon them , but we know that though they are branches growing naturally upon that holy root as you call it , of believing parents , yet they are counted unholy by your selves , because they believe not in their own persons , yea if we should ask how the children of those iews , that at first believed , did come to be such strangers to the gospel church , your selves would answer vs because they believed not , as their parents did , by which you do no less than grant what we contend for , viz. that the faith of ancestors gives no right to their posterity to stand at all in the gospel church , and covenant , but faith in the particular persons only so standing . well then they were broken off : but why ? not because they had not believing parents , for abraham was the fleshly father of all of them , and the primitive believing iews were the fleshly fathers of many of them , and are to this day as much as ever , if bare birth priviledge could ingraft them as it did of old in the family of the iewish church : nor was it because they wanted title upon which they might have stood still in the iewish church , if that church it self had stood to this day , for they were abrahams seed , and that gave them capacity enough to dwell in the house before , their own unbelief notwithstanding ; but because they do not believe themselves , because the terms of standing in the church which before christ were these , viz. we have abraham to our father , we are the children of such , and such parents , are now quite changed , so that it boots not to say such a thing as abraham is our father , mat. . unless we can also say we repent , and believe the gospel . the jews were broken off by unbelief , and thou and thine ( o believing gentile ) must stand by faith , yet not thine by thy faith , but thou thy self by thine , and they by their own ; faith is that in which thou standing , and not thy seed , thou hast right to stand in the church , and not they , in which they standing , and not thy self , they have right to stand in the church , and thou hast none . perpetuity in personall faith gives perpetual personal right to baptism , and to church-membership , but not a perpetuity of the same right to any mans whole posterity ; there 's now no difference made at all as to gospel interest , by being either this or that by nature , but in all the world any person jew or gentile , male or female seed of believer or of unbeliever , barbarian , scythian , bond or free , is capable both to be saved , and signed as an heir of salvation by baptism upon personal faith , but in no wise the progeny upon the faith of the parentage . and yet to put it more out of doubt , that the covenant holiness , and church-right of mens fleshly seed , which was of old , is not continuing under the gospel , but ceremonial and so ended in christ , in whom your selves say iudicialia sunt mortua , ceremonialia mortifera , i will leave two or three consequences upon the file , which either answer and that not invitâ minervâ , nor stretching your genius beyond sense and reason , rather than want somewhat whereby to prove your iudaizing to be judicious , or else by silence say you cannot : i leave you to consult with them as you see occasion . that holiness which sanctified the iewes land , city , temple , altar , all its untensils , priest-hood , and the whole body of that people , and all the pertinences of the first tabernacle , and old covenant was ceremonial only , and is now abolished , and not abiding among believing gentiles . but that holiness , that sanctified the iewish seed , was the same , and no other then that , which sanctified their land , city , temple , altar , and its utensils , priest-hood , and whole people and all the appertenances of that first tabernacle , and old covenant . ergo , that holiness , which sanctified the iewish seed , is now abolished , and not abiding at all among believing gentiles . as for the major i would wish you not to subject your selves so much to suspicion of superstition ( as you will do in these daies of light by putting me to prove it ) as to require proof on 't , since no intelligent man , or religious christian ( save the pope and dr. featley , and the rest of their several fryes , and fraternities ) will deny it h or did ever in the daies of the gospel attribute the same holiness to outward , and inanimate things viz. places , lands , profits , emolluments , first fruits , tithes , oblations , and other obventions , temples , altars , tables , lavers , chalices , vestiments , nor yet to priests , and people that all these were denominated holy by under the law , for to me by the same reason that first fruits , tythes , and such like are now to be called holy , the first born of every creature both of man and beast is still to be called holy also , for even these were sanctifyed and holy denominativè , and dedicativè , as much as any of the rest ezod . . . yea as paul did in another case viz. appeal to the pharisees to judge between him and the sadduces , so may i to you of the presbyterian priesthood to decide this matter between me and the seducers of the popish and prelatick strain , whose holy sandalls , copes , surplices , and other superfluities , viz. railes , high altars , holy tapers , and candlesticks , holy fonts , holy windows you your selves pulld down , and prophaned , before that part of the wheele where the baptists dwell , did at all appear so plainly ( as now it doth ) in the horizon , of this english nation , for which sort of sacriledge d● featley ( much mistaking you , and being half afraid that you had been anabaptists , when ( god wot ) you are so far from rebaptization , that you neither do baptize , nor ever were so much as once truly baptized your selves ) cries out against you , who were in truth the men , that first began to digrade , and divest all those holy trinkets of that denomination of holiness , wherewith they had invested them , and that with a most hideous out-cry , saying pa. . of his book thus , what evil their disciples , mingled with the brownists , have done in the sanctuaries of god in england , and ireland , though i should hold my peace , the timber out of the beams , and the chalices out of the vestry , and the marble , and brass out of the monuments of the dead , would proclaim it to the everlasting infamy of this prophane sect . you then being together by the ears so much among your selves about this question , viz. whether temples , vestments , altars , fonts , and monuments , and other steeple house stuff , and temple trumpery , which was in the bishops times , be holy yea or no with that relative holiness ( as d featley calls it ) wherwith the holy places , and temple furniture of the jewes was holy , i might safely slink away here , and leave you presbyters to tugg it out with your fathers the bishops , who have indeed already drawn that controversy so neer to an end , as to determine all the holy things , and well nigh all the holiness they had out of doors . yet that you may know i own and honor you so far , as freely to side with you , so far as you are willing to reform indeed , and renounce rome , and her religion ( but alas sirs that is not fully yet , for notwithstanding the covenants whereby you have sworn both me , and your selves to extirpate to your power all popery , superstition , idolatry , and meer mens inventions , yet oh what remnants of romish rubbish , viz. national churches , popish parochial postures , popish payments , and profits , old tricks of trotting after tythes , more then truth , and seeking to benefice your selves well , rather then to benefit the people , do yet abide unabolished among you ) yet so far ( i say ) as you do reform , i am willing to go along with you , and therefore will lend you my hand so farr as to sling one stone after all that canaanitish holiness , wherewith the pope and his clergy hath consecrated and christened not only all the babes born in christendome , but also the very bells , and other bawbles belonging to the several sanctuaries , with the name of holines to the lord , as far as t is possible to keep it out from creeping into england any more , and that shall be an argument from the meer typicallness of all that dedicative holiness , that was once resident in the iewish church , and every thing almost that pertained thereunto , the like to which d● featley feigns to be now in the christian nations ; and thus i frame it . all that holiness , which was but typical , was but temporal or ceremoniall and so to be abolished under the gospel . but all that holiness whereby the iewes land , city , temple , altar , priesthood , people , first fruits , profits , and all the appertenance ; of that first tabernacle , were denominated holy , was but meerly typicall , and figurative of a future holiness , that was to come in more fully under the new covenant , second tabernacle or church under the gospel . ergo , all that holyness , wherewith the iewes land , city , temple , & i. was holy , was but temporal , or ceremonial , and so to be abolished under the gospel . the first proposition needs no proof , for your selves deny not but that all things under the law that were but types of things to come , were terminated and taken clean away , when the truth , or things typified thereby did come in under christ. the minor is no less cleer then the other , for the law had but the shadow of things to come , not the very image of the things heb , . . it had but the patterns of holy things in the heavens , not the holy or heavenly things themselves , those holy places made with hands , and all the holy furniture thereunto pertaining , were but figures of the true holy place , i. e. heaven it self , into which our high-priest is gone , there to appear in the presence god for us , heb. . . . yea read through the th . th . th . chapters to the hebrews and you shall find that all things under the law did but serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things , and were but as it it were a figure for the time then being , imposed on the iewes untill the time of reformation i. e. till christ came . now as to the minor in the prosyllogism , which is this viz. that the holinesse which fanctified the jews seed , was the same , and no other then that which sanctified all the other appertenances of that covenant , t is but a folly for me to offer to prove it , sith mr. blake himself ( the man that most earnestly pleads the present being of that same holinesse in believers seed as in the iews seed of old ) doth little less then clearly confess it , in the and page of his birth-priviledge , where he writes thus , viz. common things dedicated for holy service , and use are holy , a people by nature sinners , dedicated to the lord , are for holy use and service of the lord , when others are for the service of idols , therefore ierusalem a city , none of the holiest for any transcendent holiness of the inhabitants thereof , is yet called by the evangelist the holy city , by reason of the temple , and worship there that were holy and from thence ( saith he ) this observation follows , a people that enjoy gods ordinances convey to their issue a priviledge to be reputed of a society that is holy , to be numbered amongst , not unclean , but holy persons , in proof of which observation among other things he saies thus , viz. the land of their habitation where they dwelt and injoyed this peculiar priviledge is ordinarily stiled the holy land , being the land of emanuel , and the language there spoke the holy language , being a mark to discern the people of god , the distinguishing and discrimminating epithite given to them was still holy , even all of this root who were branches of abraham , isaac , iacob , all of this lump whereof abraham , isaac , iacob were the first fruits , they peculiarly had this honor to receive , &c. and that in infancy , &c. distinction from all others . all which words of his ( collectively considered ) must needs bear such a sense as this , viz. that as the things that were else wise common , were holy things , and in such sort as the city ierusalem was a holy city , their temple a holy place , their service , which we know stood mainly in offering of gifts and sacrifices , meats drinks , divers washings and carnal ordinances for that time onely , a holy service , their land of canaan , it self a holy land , their language a holy language , and in a manner every thing of theirs was discriminated by the term holy , from what ever was then counted common and unclean among the gentiles , in such sort that people were a holy people , and their issue reputed , not an unclean but a holy seed . if this be his sense , then me thinks its a very sensless thing for him to affirm that same holinesse to be removed from all other things , that were the subjects then denominated by it , and to remain onely in people and their seed ; but if he deny this to be his sense in those recited words of his , i think he must either crack his conscience to evade the disadvantage that accrues to his cause by owning it , or else grant that he was not sensible of what he wrote , for i see not how he can shuffle those sentences into any other sense : and as he , so mr. baxter that backs him in his opinion of birth-priviledge sayes the same , and confesses p. . of his book that the common nature of holiness is one and the same in all these , viz. priests and levites , temple , altar , sacrifices under the law , and in the children of believers and their unbelieving yoke-fellows spoken of cor . . i. e. a separation to god , for so saith he there , i. e. in such sense as the priests , levites , temple , altar , sacrifice , &c. were sanctified , both children of believers , and also unbelieving yoke-fellows are here said to be holy and sanctified . it being then in both mr. blakes and mr. baxters own account one and the same holinesse , whereby as well the seed as the land , people , priests , sanctuary and service were all denominated and distinguished as holy , which surely was no other then a meer ceremoniall holiness , it s but folly for me to say more in proof of this , that it was the same : nevertheless forasmuch as here is the very foundation of all your falsity and confusion , in that you either do not , or else will not discern a difference between the time of the law , and the gospel ( for distingue tempora , et reconciliabis scripturas ) and for that also i am jealous over you with a godly jealously , that i may espouse you , who are yet a treacherous and adulterous , as a chast ministry unto christ , would to god you could bear with me in my folly , and indeed bear with me if i yet insist a little further to shew the sameness of that holinesse , that was then in the iews land , sanctuary , service , &c. and in their fleshly seed , which that it may yet more plainly appear , i beseech you let it be considered , that ( as your selves grant that the holiness whereby the seed was then said to be holy was , not real and inherent , but meerly dedicative , relative , denominative , i. e. titular , i and discriminative , k so indeed it was but typical , and consequently but temporal as all th● rest was , for in such wise as their temple was but tipical of the gospel churches ( i mean not steeple houses , but congregated and truly constituted assemblies of people , cor. . . eph. . , . . pet. . . ) and as that nation and people in their holiness , and all other particulars was tipicall of the saints , where ever locally scattered , yet mistically imbodied , and no● of christian nations collectively taken , and as their holy land and kingdom flowing with milk and hony was typicall of the heavenly canaan , and kingdome flowing with rivers of pleasures , and their holy city of that holy city new ierusalem that is to come down from god , rev. . and their holy high priest-hood of our holy , harmless , undefiled high-priest christ iesus , and their holy priest-hood of all the elect of god , sanctified and anointed , not with material holy oyle , but the holy spirit it self , or holy unction to be a holy priest-hood , to offer spiritual sacrifice , . pet. . . and as their holy altar and sacrifices was a type pointing out our altar christ , that immacculate lamb offered without spot to god , where of paul saies they have no right to eat that serve the tabernacle , heb. . , ( by which saying of paul in that place you may by the way if you be not stocks and stones take notice thus far of your selves , that the same holy persons that by that holiness had a real right to be , not onely in the neerest service , but highest office also in that church of the jews cannot possibly upon the meer account of that holinesse , plead a right to participate of gospel-priviledges , and if the holiness of the priests , which was superiour in degree , though the same in kind with that of the people , and seed , by which they were priviledged with so high a standing in that church , could not inright them of it self , unless they were obedient to the faith also , to membership and communion with gospel-fellowships , in gospel injoyments , shall we suppose the bare birth-holiness that was in the jews seed ( if it were now as truly in the fleshly seed of believing gentiles , as t is certain there 's no such matter ) can entitle , and give right to enter and partake of gospel-priviledges , without more ado ? be asham'd sirs to assert it ) and lastly as all that holinesse of the old testament and tabernacle , and things thereunto belonging was no more then a type for the time then being , of the new testament and tabernacle and holy things thereof , so even that fleshly seed of abraham , and that birth-priviledge and covenant-holinesse , which they then had , yea that law of infants church-membership and circumcision , which mr. baxter p. . of his book will at no hand yield to be but typical and ceremonial , or to have any anti-type that succeeds it , was as meerly typical and ceremonial as all the holinesse , that was in the other subjects , viz. the holy persons and things above named ; and sith he there challenges us to shew what it was a type of , and prove it to be so if we can , as simple as he seems to make himself in this matter , i dare be bold to tell him that there was not any one thing under the law , or in that whole church of the jews , which ( though this will not down with him ) was all but a ceremony , but 〈◊〉 was a more lively type in reference to its anti-type , that this infant-birth-priviledge , birth-holiness , and that law of infant-church-membership and circumcision were ; for verily as that fleshly seed of abraham , isaac , and iacob were reputatively holy , and were by covenant and special promise from god , heirs by that bare fleshly birth with abraham , isaac and iacob of that earthly canaan , together with all the glory , priviledges , immunities , rest , riches and bodily blessings of that earthly inheritance , and in token of their true title thereunto ( as so born ) were circumcised in the flesh ; so anti-typically all the faithful seed of abraham , i. e. true believers in christ , and these only , ate that truly holy seed , which by the gospel-covenant and promise , are and shall be heirs with abraham of the heavenly kingdome or canaan , together with all the priviledges , liberties , dignities , and blessings of that eternal , glorious and incorruptible inheritance reserved for him and them , and to be revealed and brought to them at the next comming of iesus christ , in token whereof they are not only outwardly baptized in water , immediately after they are thus born , and become the children of abraham by faith , but also circumcised in the heart with the circumcision made without hands ; i. e. inwardly sanctified by the spirit of god , mortyfying , crucifying , cutting off , and casting out the fleshlie superfluities thereof , col. . . all which as its proved abundantly in each particular thereof in several other scriptures ( as rom. . . . heb. . . rom. . . . gal. . . . . . . . ) so is it verie plainly and summarily shewed in heb. . . . . where the law of the old covenant is said to be , with all the holy things thereof but onely patterns of things in the heavens , figures of the true , and to have only a shadow of the good things to come , and not the verie substance of the things themselves , the covenant-holiness therefore and birth-priviledge which was then in the jewes fleshly seed , with whom that covenant was made , was ( as all other things then were ) but typicall , and consequently but ceremonial and temporal , i mean abiding onely till the time of the gospel : and since your selves acknowledge that what was but typicall of old is now vanished , i marvel that you should so much forget your selves , as to renounce the same holiness that was then in all other things , and retain it still as standing in the seed , and you hold it to be removed from abrahams own fleshly seed too , and subjected onely in the fleshly seed of believing gentiles , you fight against the owning of any of that kind of holinesse that of old was ( i mean you priests of the presbyterian party , for the bishops and d● . featley fight against it in the pope , and yet hold it themselves to be where you own it not ) in temple , copes , surplices , altars , fonts , chalices , and such holy church-geer , as christs church in london , in oxford , in cambridge , in canterbury did once supera bound with , but neither christs church in rome till corrupted , nor christs church in corinth , nor ephesus , nor philippi , nor any of the rest of the churches in the primitive times ever did , nor any of christs true churches in these latter times ever will place holiness in any more ; i say you are against all that relative jewish , ceremonial holiness , and abide not to hear of its abiding in any thing else , & yet abide not to hear any otherwise but that it abides still in that onely subject , i. e. the fleshly seed of enchurched parents . but sirs , although in most things i must needs preferre the worst of you two p priest-hoods of the prelatick and presbyterian posture , yet ( to give the devil his due ) in this one thing i cannot but commend the pope and his priesthood beyond you both , in that since you will all needs iudaize more or lesse , and regulate your gospel service by that of the law , they judaize more judiciously and more ingenuously than either of you , two pp that pluck him to pieces for it , for thou english scottish angel are neither hot nor cold , neither gospel , nor law , neither wholy romish , nor rightly reformed , but retaining a little of one , and a little of the other , and lying in a lukewarm temper , between them both , for which god will spue you out of his mouth as well as them : but as for the other they are not lukewarm , but i bear them record they have ( as the jewes also had since the gospel came in ) a zeal of the law , but not according to knowledge , yea they are zealous of the holyness of that covenant more , and more compleatly , then either of you : for they plead not only for the holiness of their fleshly seed , as p. nor only a holiness in temples , altars , fonts , vestmen●s , vessels , &c. as p. but for a holiness well-nigh in all those things , and more too , than ever were denominated holy under the law , in which supererrogating , i must needs uncommend them again as far worse then you , yea they say downrightly to the people , that except it be after the manner of moses in all things almost , iudicial and ceremoniall ( only moralls they are a litle more moderate in observing , and can better bear an absolute abrogation of ) viz. one holy high-priest to procure attonement , aliâs , sell indulgencies and pardons , whose supremacy must be owned , and he answerably adorned with holy mitre and crown , purple , scarlet , fine linnen , chaines of gold ; also if there be ●ot holy altars , tapers , lavers , holy water , offerings , first fruits , fine flower , wine and oile , salt , cream , spittle , &c. holy fasts , as lent , wednesdaies , fridaies , holy feast-daies , in memorial of such saints as the pope eanonizeth ( which are more by far then there are daies in the year ) holy pictures and images , holy warrs , holy pilgrimages , holy clouts , holy rags , holy reliques , holy bells , holy chanteries , holy churchyards , of which they say pueri s●cer est locus extra mejete , holy persons devoted to service , viz. holy votaries , holy monks , holy friers , holy nunns & sic de ceteris , from the vniversal vicar to the holy singing men and pipers , and the rest of that rabble , which are the very vermine of christendome ; yea if they observe not all the holy statutes , and ordinances which his holiness their lord god the pope commands them , especially if they seperate from the holy catholike church of his constituting they cannot be saved ; thus they clean outstrip you , if pleading for relative , dedicative holiness , and consecration of persons , places , and times , be as proper under the gospel as under the law , and are so zealous of that kind of holiness , that in zeal thereof they will have all to be holiness to the lord , till they come to be as wicked , and prophane as the very devil himself can well desire they should be . si aliquando quare non nunc ? ( saies the pope ) when you question him for his dedicative holiness , if so once why not now ? if under the law , why not under the gospel ? the same phrase you commonly bespeak us in when we demand a reason why you fancy such a birth-holiness in your fleshly seed ; in return to which against such time as you shall satisfy us so slenderly in this case , so as to say si aliquando quare non nunc ? arguing from the manner of things under moses , that thus or thus they ought to be under christ , and deriving a holiness from that of the jews fleshly seed , to the fleshly seed of believing gentiles under the gospel , i leave this double question upon record . first , si aliquid quare non quicquid ? if you will have any thing holy with that ceremonial holiness now , why not every thing that then was so ? secondly , si aliqualitèr , quarè non aequalitèr ? if you will needs iudaize at all , why not in all as well as the pope ? though where he doth all , and more too he shall at last have no thanks for his labor . the next and last argument whereby i shall prove that typical holiness of abrahams fleshly seed , as well as of all the other subjects denominated , and distinguished by it under the law to be but ceremonial , and now nullified under the gospel , is this . that holiness whose contrarily opposite commonness , sin , and uncleanness wa● but meerly ceremonial , and is now utterly ended , and abolished , must necessarily be but ceremoniall , and now abolished also . but that holiness , which successively through all generations ( for the time then being ) did denominate , and distinguish the iewes , and their prog●●y from all people , and their seed as holy , is a holiness whose con●rarily opposite , commonnesse , sin , and uncleanness was but ceremonial , and is now abolished . ergo , that holiness which did distinguish the iews and their natural progeny ( as holy ) from all other people and their seed was but ceremoniall and is now utterly abolished also . the major cannot possibly be denyed , for contrariorum eadem est ratio , contrariorum uno sublato tollitur alterum : of contraries take away one , and the other cannot remain in its opposition to it , any longer : as for example , the commonness , sinfulness , prophanness , uncleanness of some meats , flesh , birds , beasts , places , persons , and their natural seed above others being ended , the cleanness of some meats , flesh , birds , places , persons , and their natural seed above others m●st without controversie be at an end also : under the law , whilest there was more uncleanness , commonness , and prophanness in such and such meats , places , people , then in others , there must necessarily be by the rule of contraries more holiness in these meats , places , people , then in those : but under the gosspel there being no more uncleanness , commonness , or prophanness in these things , places , or persons above those , there must be consequently no more holiness in those than these : and so if there be no such bir●h holiness as was under the law , there can be no such birth uncleanness as was under the law : and if no one man in all the world is more sinfull , common and unclean then another by nature , no man can be more holy then another by nature , with the holiness directly opposite to that uncleanness , but all men must now be all alike by nature or fleshly birth . and now as to the minor , viz. that the commonness , sinfulness , prophanness , or uncleanness of some mens fleshly seed above others , oppositely answering to the holiness with which the iewes seed was then holy above others , is totally destroyed , as well as all that uncleanness , and the holiness contrary thereunto , that was then in some meats , and flesh of birds and beasts above others is evidently proved to be a truth to any which will impartially consult and compare these three scriptures each with other ( viz. act. . v. . . . . . act. . . . . . . . . . also gal. . . . . . . . . . in all which if you be not either so blind that you cannot , or so obstinate that you will not see , you cannot avoid the sight of this very thing , viz. that not only the commonness , and uncleanness that was once in some meats , and flesh of birds and beasts forbidden as abominable to be eaten , under the law , but also the commonness and uncleanness that was in some people , and their seed more then in others , even that sin and uncleannesse of the gentiles by nature in respect of the jews , who were then forbidden to eat with them , as a thing for them unlawful and abominable , is not at all in being now under the gospel , but quite abolished and consequently the birth holiness directly opposite to it abolisht also ; which holiness yet , that was as then in the iews by birth , and nature m blake is not ashamed to scrue his wits to prove a translation of from the iews seed now , to the seed of believing gentiles under the gospel , and that from the last of these scriptures , viz. gall. . verse . then which , i testifie , no scripture doth more clearely confute him . as to those scriptures cited out of act. . and act. . these things are well worthy your observation in them first that peter ( though under the gospel ) stood yet opinioned ( god having not till now discovered the contrary to him ) according to the law that such meats as were then forbidden to be eaten , and such people as were not jewes by nature , but by nature sinners of the gentiles , were unholy , unlawfull , unclean and abominable for him that was a jew , so much as to eat , or eat with still . secondly , that god did not shew unto peter in that vision any such thing as mr. blake dreams and seems to himself to have the vision of viz. that he had now translated that old commonness and uncleannesse that was once in the gentiles by nature , and stated it now upon such as are iews by nature , and such as are by nature descended from unbelieving parents , and contrary wise translated and stated the birth-holiness that was once among the iews by nature , because they now believe not , upon such gentiles by nature , as are born of believing parents ; for no more then gentiles by nature can i call them still , for all their parents faith , not christians or saints by nature ( as mr , blake frivolously fancies them to be ) that are descended from christian parents after the flesh onely ; for howbeit the fleshly seed of the iews are iews still , both naturâ , nomine et natione , yet the meer fleshly seed of christians and saints , are not christians and saints at the same rates in gods-account ( how ever they are in the popes and his ) any more then the meer fleshly seed of believers are by birth , nature , name and nation believers as much as their parents , which that they are mr. blake himself , will not surely be so shameless as to assert : and though he tells us a trifling tale , that the name of christian would not long hold in any family , or among any people if it be not so , that as iews are iews by birth , so christians are christians , p. . yet i tell him again 't is no great matter whether it do or no , yea 't is not onely worth nothing , but worse then nothing to have the meer name and title of christian , communicated and derived from parents to children , from generation to generation without the nature , for that 's the main mischief that hath overspread all christendom , and fill'd it with a thousand antichristians to one true christian indeed . secondly , as simply as he saith god provideth for a continuance in succession of that name from age to age , yet i know no such provision that god hath made in his word for any such thing , as the continuance of the meer name of christian in one family or nation , by any such birth-priviledge or propagation thereof from christians to their meer natural posterity , but all the provision that hath been made in this behalf hath been made by the pope and his priesthood . yea if god himself had took order for any such matter , then me thinks the name christian should have been continued to this day among the posterity of that gospel church of the hebrews , i. e. those many thousands of iews , which in the primitive times turned christians , yea then so many thousands of the iews , which then believed , and became christians act. . might have multiplied as easily by this time into one christian nation at least , by the pastoral power , improvement , and sanctity of saint simon peter , as the church of rome , i. e. those few gentiles , which at first believed there , did at last by the pollitick power , improvement and subtilty of sir simon the pope , his supposed successour increase and multiply into so many . and as god did not shew unto peter in the forenamed place , that he had now removed that birth priuiledge , and old covenant holinesse from the iews by nature , to the natural seed of believing gentiles , so thirdly , he shewed him point blank that he had now quite abolished , and put an end to that old outward carnal , legal , ceremonial account of things , and persons as holy and unclean , so that now as no meats , nor flesh of birds and beasts should be counted common or unclean , in relation to other , as aforetime , so no men now or flesh of men however born , should by meer fleshly birth of such parents , though unbelieving gentiles , be counted common or unclean in relation to others , whether iews by nature , or believing christians natural seed , as more holy by birth then they , for being cavill'd with by them of the circumcision i. e. the birth priviledged iews , for eating things common and unclean , and for associating himself with men uncircumcised , common or unclean ( for so both the gentiles or uncircumcision in the flesh , and many meats eaten by them , and prohibited to be eaten by the iews are call'd and accounted under the law ) he tells them chap. . that he was at first as scrupulous of the thing as themselves , till a voice from god declared to him that he must not now call any thing common or unclean , that was so before , in respect to other , as more holy then it in the sense of the law , because whatever was then common or unclean in such a sense , god had now cleansed i. e. destroyed that denomination and distinction that was between it , and what answerably to it was wont to be called holy : and that these discriminating terms of holinesse and uncleannesse are as much abolished in all people and their fleshly seed as in all other flesh of birds and beasts appears undeniably chapter . . where he tells cornelius the very same as concerning men , who aforetime were by birth common or unclean , that he tells them of the circumcision as concerning other creatures which aforetime were called common or unclean . ye know ( saith he ) that t is an unlawful thing ( meaning according to the will of god under the law ) for a man that is a iew to keep company , or come unto one of another nation ( for then indeed iews by nature might not eat with such as were by nature sinners of the gentiles ) but now god hath shewed me that i should not , ( meaning in these dayes of the gospel ) call any man common or unclean : observe the words i beseech you , and consider them with reference to the vision it self , and that further exposition of it , which peter himself makes in the . chapter , and the result thereof is no less then this , viz. that as there is now nothing , i. e. no meats , or flesh of birds or beasts , or other creatures more unclean , unholy , unlawful or abominable to be eaten then other , as some was under the law , so there is not now any man by birth , nature or nation unclean , in such sense as the gentiles were of old in reference to the iews , but that all men are alike now by birth , and none by nature more holy or unclean then other , in such wise as before , none by meer nature neerer to god or further off , more or less the people of god or accepted with him , further then by holinesse or unholinesse of life they are distinguisht . in further consideration of which v. . . peter opened his mouth again and said thus , of a truth i perceive that god is no respecter of persons , i. e. now he accepts not men of one nation above another , no not iews by nature , more then those which heretofore , in relation to that birth-holiness the iew had , were counted sinners of the gentiles , nor any one man above another , as meerly descended of such a parent , but in every nation he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness is accepted with him . though therefore time was , when the natural seed of jewish parents ( as meerly so born , though proving never so morally wicked , profane and unbelieving in their own persons ) were still accepted of god ( i mean in that outward ceremonial sense onely ) as his people , his peculiar chosen generation , his holy nation , above all nations of the earth , though ( as mr. blake saies truly ) none of the holiest for any transcendent manners of the inhabitants : yet when christ came the hour came , and now is , wherein no fleshly birth or being of this or that nation or parentage or natural descent and condition doth invest one person or people with this birth-priviledge of acceptation before god as his people , or denomination of a holy people or seed more then others , the hour now is , wherein in meer infancy there 's no more distinction at all between persons as holy and unclean , wherein faith and not typical but true holiness , or holinesse of truth onely , eph. , . . makes the distinction between the church of the genliles , and other gentiles ; wherein there 's no difference between iews and gentiles , and the children of both save according as they are called , and have hearts purified by faith , act. . . . . wherein the righteousness and grace of god is unto all , and upon all alike without difference in time of infancy , and upon all alike that believe a like when they come to years , for there 's no difference , rom. . . wherein there is neither iew nor greek , circumcision or uncircumcision , more unclean or holy by nature either then the other ( as of old ) but all alike accounted sinners or holy according as they live sinfully or holily , and not other wise . if then we may not call any man , of what blood , nation or parentage soever under the gospel common or unclean , ( as god shewed peter that he should not ) no not those who ( saving the abolishing of that unclaanness ) are as abominable by birth as the gentiles were in the time of the law , then may we not call any man , however naturally descended , holy upon the same account of that his natural birth , in comparison of others . whereupon though christ called the canaanites by nature , dogs in reference to the iews , and their seed the children , while that birth-uncleanness or holinesse stood yet unabolished , mat. . . . after which example mr. blake takes such blind boldness to himself , as to imagine the new born infants of believers and unbelievers may respectively be so denominated still , yet he takes upon him much more then god ever gave peter leave to do , or any man else in those dayes of the gospel , if he now call any person by meer naturall birth more holy , common or unclean then other . t is not now fleshly birth , nor circumcision , nor uncircumcision in the flesh that discriminates men as saints or sinners , children or dogs , holy or unclean , in covenant with god or out , fit or unfit ( further then non-age unfits all alike for such a thing ) now to be of the visible church , which is not now nationall neither as heretofore it was , for under the law this only made men communicable or incommunicable one with another , this was the cause why those of the circumcision cavilled with peter till he satisfied them to the contrary , because he being a iew by nature , and circumcised in the flesh went in to men uncircumcised , and did eat with them , act. . from eating with whom he dissemblingly withdrew himself at another time , fearing them of the circumcision , gal. . which way of discrimination of persons each from other as holy and unclean , fit or unfit for church-communion each with other by meer fleshly birth and circumcision in the flesh , was but a type , the antitype whereof is not this , viz that believers fleshly seed are holy , saints , gods people , church-members by birth , and contrariwise unbelievers fleshly seed by nature dogs , swine , sinners , unclean in such sort as the seed of iews and gentiles were under the law ; but this rather and indeed viz. that believers themselves spiritually born by faith in iesus christ , circumcised in heart , doing abrahams works , are now the children of abraham , a peculiar people , a holy nation , neer and deer unto him , that must dwell in his house , and be fed and refresht with that bread , of which there 's abundance , and vnbelievers themselves , unholy ones in heart and life , never new born , nor become children to god and abraham by faith in christ , but remaining uncircumcised within , under the unclean lusts of the flesh , are those unclean ones , and sinners with whom communion is not to be held by the other in church bodies , those dogs and swine to whom the childrens bread is not to be divided , nor holy things given even the holy ordinances of the gospel , nor pearls cast i. e. the precious particularities of professed believers , viz. baptism and the supper thrown away upon them . moreover as god shewed peter by that vision act. . that not any man now , no not a gentile by nature may be called common or unclean any more then one that is a jew by nature , so he shews him the same ore again , in a round reproof by the mouth of paul gal. . . to . where t is recorded how shamefully he separated from eating with the gentiles for fear of offending the jews , of whose cavils with him in this kind he had had some experience before , act. . as if he had been opinion'd still according to the law , that such meats as were then unclean , and such people as were then sinners by nature , in reference to the then holy seed of the iews had been no lesse then abomination still for him , or any iew by nature to eat of , or eat with , and likewise how roundly he was dealt with by paul , who minded him of that , which he knew well enough but was too willingly ignorant of at this time , viz. that these who were but a while since by nature holy , were now no holier by nature then gentiles , that were then also called sinners of the gentiles , but that as to that old account of ceremoniall uncleanness and holinesse , whereby they were distinguisht from the very womb before , they were now all alike by nature , viz. iews no more holy then other men , and other men even gentiles no more sinners by birth then they , all that partition wall of birth holinesse and uncleanness , propinquity and alienation that did once difference some men from other ab incunabilis being broken down , and themselves such as must look upon themselves as dead to that law , whereby they stood the children of god and saints , and all other men sinners by fleshly birth , and under another law now even that of the gospel , by which there is no other way of being holy and becoming so much as relatively onely , much lesse really the children of god , then that of faith in the lord iesus for the iews themselves more then for any other : and therefore in case they now go about to build again the things that they had destroied ( meaning that fleshly birth holinesse which they had before disownd ) they should make themselves transgressors in so doing : this verily is the very sum , sense , and scope of that scripture viz. to cry down all the old ceremonial distinctions of men by nature and nation , to beat down all that old birth priviledge and preheminence of one person however descended above another , as to gospel participation and communion : out of which yet mr. blake blindly takes his text , where upon to build again a certain birth holinesse in one mans fleshly seed above another , the very thing that paul there declares rather to be abolished , most perversly propagating to the meer carnall s●ed of christians that antient tipical and now ended holinesse of iews by nature , who though the seed of believing abraham himself , yet have none of it at all now themselves , nor yet whilst they had it could be admitted by iohn to baptism , and gospel priviledges upon that onely account , and yet if it still remain as the thing intitling to ordinances both must have it , and a right also to baptism by it , specially if mr. blakes own tenet be true , that the ground of a childs admission to baptism is not the faith of his immediate parent onely , as he saies it is not p. . of his birth priviledge , but the promise made to believing ancestors at a great distance ; for as he saith there that if iosia have no right from his father ammon , yet he is not to be shut out having right from his father abraham , so say i abraham being not onely the remote parent of iosia , but of all the iews that are born at this day also , if the iews have no right now from their own immediate parents that in the primitive times , or more lately believed not the gospel , yet may they have right , if right at all be to be had to gospel priviledges from the parents faith at a distance ; from their remote fathers abraham , isaac and iacob , whose believing of the gospel , is as well worthy to intitle all their seed to this day to the gospel promises , as the faith of any believing gentiles onely . i cannot therefore but stand amazed in my mind to consider how miserably mr. blake mistakes himself in taking that text , from which to prove a present birth holinesse in the infants of believing gentiles , which if there were no other to compare it with , doth sufficiently clear it of it self alone ; how much more if compared with those forecited out of act. . act. that there is now no such holinesse and uncleannesse as was once between iews by nature , and such as were then called sinners of the gentiles : yea if that distinction of iews by nature , and sinners of the gentiles spoken of gal. . . were now in being , & remaining unabolished , it would be so farre from establishing that indeed it would utterly overthrow what mr. blake pleads for from it , and instead of advancing the naturall seed of believing gentiles so high in holinesse as he would have them to be by birth , debase them rather into a worse condition then i dare say any unbelieving gentiles seed is in by birth ( as to such a kind of uncleanness as they once were denominated by ) in all the world ; specially if it be so as he himself saies p. . of his birth priviledge , viz. that the seed of believing gentiles are now under one of those two heads in the text : for if that distinction be not now destroyed , and all men by birth come under one of those two denominations now ; under which of them i trow will mr. blake rank the infants of believing gentiles ? he will not render himself so ridiculous sure as to say they are iewes by nature , and therefore ( unless the distinction be totally taken away ) he must say they are by nature sinners of the gentiles , which in the sense of the law , is as if he should say doggs , unholy , common , and unclean , and more then we our selves dare say of any now new-born infants under heaven , as in contra-distinction to other . if he say they are neither sinners of the gentiles , nor iews by nature neither , then either he must say they are some third thing , which if he do mr. blake himself will contradict mr. blake in that , for he asserts pag. . of his birth priviledge that the seed of believing parents under the gospel must be lookt upon under one member of this division in this text , and that the apostles distinction and distribution is so full and compleat that a third cannot be assigned , or else he must grant that this distinction is now wholly ceased under the gospel , which because t is the giving up of his whole cause he will be very loath to do , and therefore rather than do so ( then which yet , if he well understood what is best for him he could not do a better thing ) of the two he choses , to the utter contradiction of himself , to rank them under a third head , to assert them to be some third thing , namely a sort of carnal holy seed of his own , and the clergies coining , a relative holy seed of their own consecrating , a faederall holy seed of their own feigning , a holy seed hatcht in their own heads , which are neither fish , nor flesh , nor good red herring , nor sinners of the gentiles , nor iews by nature , nor iews besides nature neither , i. e. by personal faith as all true christians are , but quartum quoddam , a certain fourth thing , called christians from their mothers womb , or ever they are so much as christen'd into the name , or discipled into the nature , and yet for all this a seed set forth in such a transcendent manner , as if all other were in comparison of them by very descent , p. . unclean , sinners , unholy , dogs , and filthy swine . 't were enough to make a wise man wonder to see how superlatively mr. blake magnifies this seed of believing gentiles , above the seed of all other men in the world , even above the fleshly seed of abraham , isaac , and iacob themselves , who only , at least mainly ; had the promise of this priviledge of transmitting a covenant holiness to their issue , and this but typically , and for a time neither , even till that seed should come , i. e. christ and believers in him , to whom all , and only the gospel promises were made . he calls them children of god , and saints by very nature , little ones of sion in reference to infants of infidells , which with him are little ones of babylon : and yet ( to go round again ) this babilon ( in his own opinion ) is not the infidells but rome , a church of christians ( in name at least , as well as the protestant nations ) and consequently ( to go round again ) in his own opinion such ( see pag. . ) as transmit a covenant-holiness into their seed , so far as ( in his own sense ) to make them little ones of sion as well as the other : and yet for all this too ( to go round again ) though it be execration with him to hurt the little ones of sion , i. e. in his sense the infants of such as are not infidels , but christians in name , yet ( to go round again ) it is an happy thing to dash the little ones of babylon i. e. in his sense infants of papists who yet are christians nomine tenus and not infidels , and consequently ( secundum se ) the lords heritage and such as have christs name upon them , and such as for a turk to persecute were to be guilty with saul of persecuting the lord jesus p. . ) against the walls p. . which little ones of both syon and babylon he is yet much mistaken in when all is done , in taking either of them for fleshly babes of what parents soever , syons little ones in the true spiritual or gospel sense , being the saints themselves onely , and not their fleshly babes as such , even the little ones christ , paul , peter and iohn speak of mat. . . gal. . . pet. . . iohn . . , . and babylons babes being no other then the c c clergies adult disciples , or a a antichristian c c christian creatures . and ( to take notice a little more yet of mr. blakes high expressions of the birth holinesse , birth happinesse , birth mercy , birth dignity of meer nominal christians fleshly seed , as they lie scattered up and down in p. . . . . . and other pages of his book ) he calls them a seed in relation to god as well as their parents , [ and so indeed they may soon be , if he mean of such meer outside christians as he doth ] the inheritance of god , the saints and servants of god , a holy seed , having a royall transcendency above all others , as onely worthy the name of a people , injoying the light , nigh unto god , a people of hope and expectation , children that have blisse , [ as if they were actually and inalterably already stated in it , and possest of it , and all other infants and people as inalterably designd and devoted universally to cursing and damnation , as having no gospel at all belonging to them , no not that gospel which is to be preached to every creature ] a seed by birth priviledge to be baptized , p. . [ which yet is more birth-priviledged then abrahams [ own seed could have mat. . even before their birth priviledge did perish from them ] such as have a large and full right to all the ordinances of god , and priviledges of the church , appertaining to members , as they shall be capable of their use , by personall faith and good demeanor when at years , and grown up , [ and i wonder who hath not the like upon those terms ? even infants of infidels surely as well as they when at age , and whilst infants , they are no more capable of the use of any ordinance then the other . ] he tells us , these by birth are of the houshold of god , of the citizens of the saints [ t is much he said not fellow citizens in pauls phrase , eph. . sure t was because he bethought himself of their uncapableness of fellowship , for all their membership ] he tells us that these are orderly admitted , i. e. by baptism then which scripture knows no other admission , for no sooner do we read of a convert ( saith he ) but we presently hear of his baptism [ whereas of all the converts in christendom that sit under the ministry of the pope , prelate and presbyter , i never knew one in all my daies baptized after their coversion of him by preaching , till being converted from them to the truth as it is in iesus they convert and come to us , and then we immediately baptize them indeed ; but as for them , t is impossible for them so much as to preach the gospel in all christendome , in the way and words in which peter , ananias , philip , paul , and all the first and purest preachers did , while they suppose all they preach to to have been baptized in infancy ( for what priest in christendom can say to his parish repent and be baptized for remission of sinnes , arise and be baptized and wash away thy sinnes ; he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ( as they of old said , mark . . act. : without gross absurdity having christn'd them all long before he ever preacht to them ? ) neither do they baptize any at all after conversion , and the best baptism they dispense in token of remission of sins ( so long before either sins commission , or the sinners conversion ) is at best but meer rantism neither . ] he tells us that those have right to all the immunities of this house , to all the priviledges of this city of god ( meaning the church here below ) and have title to all christs visible ordinances , that they belong to christ , and therefore must par●ake of that which is of christ , and being of the houshold they must therefore have of the food of the houshold , yea the stewards of the mysteries of god must be accountable in case they deny it them . [ and yet till they are at years not any one of them may participate ( as themselves say ) of any one of those visible ordinances , viz. neither praying , preaching , hearing , not the supper , nor any thing else which is the food of the houshold after baptism , by which they are barely entred in infancy , and onely thrown ore the threshold into the house , and then ly starving for many years together , without bit or crumb of any other food at all , being utterly denied to be communicants at the supper , the use of which their folly will once be manifest , who say they are lesse capable of in infancy then of the use of baptism , for ( as shall appear more hereafter ) howbeit they are truly capable of neither they are as truly capable of both as of either , yet are they deni'd a share in that service of the supper by these stewards of the mysteries of god , the ministry themselves , and that for no less then years together at least , according to the rule of the old stewards the episcopacy , that have almost given up all their earthly account , and i know not for how long by the will of the new stewards i. e. the presbytery , for if their rule be to practise it no oftner , then they practise it indeed , some of them have had no supper at all in their parishes , neither for young nor old for about seven or eight years together last past , and when they will no body knows , and how they can with a good conscience i cannot tell , nor never could while i stood among them , they standing all , and their people all universally unbaptized to this day , for which neglect of theirs to give persons their meat in due season , order and manner , feeding them with a break-fast in baptism , before they are fit to be fed , so much as with that milk , and then denying them any supper at all when they come to years , though they then both pay for it , and are at least as fit to feed thereon , as they were in infancy to feed on baptism , the lord of that supper , and of all the other holy ordinances of his which they have dispenst more after their own minds and mens tradition , will , and testament , then his own , will call them ere long to give account of their stewardship too , and let them be no longer stewards . ] and yet a little more to trace mr. blake to and fro as he daunceth the hay up and down in that t●ifling treatise , he tells us that these are a holy seed , of the noblest birth , yea though they be the children of loose living parents , of misbelieving parents , p. . . . . of apostatized parents of excommunicate parents of fornicating parents [ and consequently a very bastard brood , which under the law that mr. blake himself professes to be tried by were unclean , and not admitted into the congregation unto the tenth generation ] of papistical parents [ for even these are but misbelievers and christians in name still , and as himself sayes no infidels , though ( to go round again ) holding such damnable errors in the faith p. . as shut them out from the happiness , and therefore i think from the holiness too , of christians ] yet all this notwithstanning ( to go round again ) if the children but of believing parents that are of the church , and ( to go round again ) not true believers neither as believer is opposed to unbeliever , misbeliever or christian in name onely , with all which he confesses the church may abound , but as believer is opposed onely to infidel p. . [ between which terms unbeliever , and infidel which are not synonimaes it seems with him , yet the scripture makes no more difference then is between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same greek word that expresses both , and is translated into latin by infidelis , and englisht by either unbeliever or infidel , notwithstanding all this i say if born in england , or any where else in any nations , or of any parents that are but christian in name onely , or of but one such christian parent , the other being an indian , that is with him an infidel indeed , they are with him a holy seed still , that god ownes and challenges for his , yea frrom the womb gods heritage , a seed so nobly born as noble nehemiah himself was not , yea p. . the least of whom is greater then nehemiahs better . these high and heroick eulogies mr. blake bestowes upon not true believers and real saints onely to whom yet they peculiarly belong ; but on meer carnall gospellers , the naturall lukewarm formalists of the antichristian more then christian nations , upon pretensive verbal professors , and that not of truth neither as t is in the word , but as in the word of an erroneous priest-hood , who preach truth for tith , and yet not the tith of that truth they should preach neither , but mostly the traditions of men , upon real professors of prophanness , for so many to one of them that are christians in name onely , and yet not on these only but on the meer fleshly seed of these doth he bestow such expressions as these , even no less then can be said of the chiefest saints , he saies of the fleshly holy seed of all the sinners in christendome , viz. a chosen generatien , a royall priesthood , a holy nation , a peculiar people , page , people of god that suck in much of god whilest they suck the breast page . and yet for all this their so timely acquaintance with , and knowledge of god , as it were from the womb his heritage , having the knowledge of the scriptures , if not with john baptist full of the holy ghost from the womb , never in that condition of enstrangement from god as the ephesians were said to be in ephes. . . for thus extraordinarily also doth he ●xtol that fleshly seed that is born within the precincts of the christian nations p. , for all this ( i say ) to go round again , and to use his own phrases and expressions of them in the quite contrary way page . breeding and education not answering birth and descent , by which they are gods by covenant ; a people ignorant to perdition , and destruction , such as though dedicated to god so soon as born , yet have nothing appears in their lives , but that they might have been given as well to moloch , such who ( as holy seed and people as they are ) are no better but somewhat worse than the mongrel seed , that spake half in the language of canaan , and half of ashdod , out of whose mouth scarce a word can be heard , for to argue that they are christians , lisping out oathes as soon as words , put to learn trades , and little regard had that they may learn to know christ iesus ; for even thus and no less doth mr blake disparage this honorable holy seed that is born in christendome , soon after he had listed them up as it were to heaven , and set them above the seed of all other people in the world , in respect of this birth-holinesse and happinesse : insomuch that if you read how this royal race , and fleshly birth holy seed of all that are christians but in name , do sometimes ride and float upon the high waves of his windy applause , and by and by are debased and denominated in no higher and better , but somewhat worse and inferiour terms then the mongrel seed , which god was so far from owning as his , that he enjoyned their own fathers not to own them neh , . ezek. . i am jam tacturos sidera summa putes . i am jam tacturos tartara nigra putes . me thinks t is very much , and not a little to be mused on , that a seed of such holiness , mercies , glory , honor , royalty , bliss , promises , priviledges , carried up so high into the aire which words , born up above all mens seed with pompous titles of , high born heirs , intimately interessed in god , in christ , in abraham , allied to them all as their own , upon no other then that bare account of being the meer fleshly seed of christians , and that in name only , should yet when all is done have neither any earthly kindome , inheritance or canaan ( as the jewes had while they enjoyed this birth-priviledge ) whereby to prove them real heirs of something more then bare ordinance ( which is but bondage without the inheritance ) not a dram more of any outward earthly felicity , power , glory , peace , plenty , &c. then what may befal the seed of turks and tartars as well as they ; nor yet the least measure of reall right , or true and immediate title to the heavenly canaan , kindome , and inheritance by any promise thereof made to them as such , i , e. upon the meer account of being such mens seed , unless at years they become believers , and obedient to the gospel themselves , upon which terms of belief and obedience when they come to age , the seed of the vilest wretch under heaven may be an heir of it aswel as they : for in infancy the seed of believers have not bard themselves from heaven , or deserveed exemption , by any actuall transgression , from the generall state of little infants declared in scripture , any more then the infants of believers , so but that dying in infancy they may be saved equally with the other , and when they grow to years the seed of the best believers in the world have no promise without faith to be saved ere the sooner because they are such mens seed , but in the way of faith or believing themselves , the seed of the worst enemies to christ that ever breath'd have as much promise and assurance from god that they shall be saved as the other . sirs where is the blessedness you speak of ? where the great preheminence of believers seed under the gospel doth nowly , in respect of which they are stiled by mr. blake , and others such great and high born heirs , nor yet what inheritance it is , which by that bare fleshly birth onely they are heirs to , i could never yet find of my self , nor learn from any of you . as for the iews by nature though they were not heirs of heaven it self , upon the meer fleshly birth of abraham without faith rom. . . yet they were not called heirs meerly as born after the flesh in vain , for there was an earthly canaan which they were heirs of , and god gave to them by promise as they were meerly the fleshly seed of abraham , which also they actually enjoy'd according to the promise , whether they had any faith or moral holinesse yea or no , during that time of the law , but as for the fleshly seed of believing gentiles , to which mr. blake translates the same birth priviledge of being holy and high born heirs by nature , they stand heirs ( by that natural birth onely ) of neither the earthly nor yet the heavenly canaan : mr. blake feeds us with an empty title of holiness by birth , heirs by birth , but can't possibly say we are heirs of heaven by birth of believers , unless we believe our selves , and believing themselves those that by fleshly birth are of unbelieving parents are by promise heirs to it as much as any : nor can he say that the seed of believing gentiles are heirs by birth ( as the jews were ) of the land of canaan , and yet if the same birth priviledge , birth holiness , birth happiness they had , be now ( as he saies it is ) made over to such in the same way as t was once standing among the jews , me thinks as they were disinherited from their land through unbelief , when once the time of standing by faith onely came , as well as from their title to the names of church , people of god , a holy seed , heirs by birth and such like , so those that succeed them in their whole birth priviledge , should have their inheritance as well as the name of heirs by birth , or else how is there such an equalizing of the body of christians with the nation of the jews , as mr. blake pleads there is p. . how can we be said to be as largely and in as full and ample manner invested with , and installed into the glorious fleshly birth-rights , which the jews of old were dignified withal if we have not a plenary conveyance of the outward benefits and blessings of the land of canaan , and the possession of that inheritance , which god then gave to those iews by nature , to us and our fleshly seed , as well as of the outward oracles and ordinances ? besides what a poor pitteous piece of birth priviledge is it , to be adopted instead of the jews into the meer name of holy sons and heirs , and yet to have not a foot of that land which was the iews inheritance , in respect to their fruition of which by right of a promise to abraham and them , they were then honoured with that name of heirs ? but if it be said that we are now by a birth of believing parents heirs ( as they were then ) of the heavenly inheritance , and the true eternal canaan and kingdom whereof that was but a type , though we have not to do with that typical land it self as they once had ; i still strongly deny it that either any iews by nature then were , or any of the fleshly seed of believing gentiles now are , by the faith of their fathers onely heirs by any promise at all of the kingdome of heaven , or any further at all then as dying in infancy they never deserved exemption by actuall trangression , or living to age they believe themselves , and so viz. dying in infancy before they have bard themselves by actual sin , or believing themselves when grown to age , i say still the fleshly seed , even of such fathers as never had any faith , are by that faith of their own heirs of the kingdom , which god hath prepared for all persons that love him of what parents soever , and shall ( so dying ) assuredly inherit it once , and that by promise as well as they . and so i leave mr. blake unlesse he like rather to return to the truth , to loose himself least i also loose my self with him from the work in hand , in that maeandrou● laborinth of self contradictions , romish confusions , iewish conceits and ceremonies , pithles priviledges , absurd asseverations , of a present continuance of that old legal typical , and ( by god himself ) long since in christ crucified , profaned and cashiered holiness , which his baby-book entitled the birth priviledge abounds with , which if they have so much truth in them as he confidence in averring then his eyes are not so dim as i now deem they are , but my own rather , with which i seriously and sincerely ●e●k after truth , are , christs promise in that case to the contrary notwithstanding prov. . . . iohn . . totally and terribly darkned . much more might easily be said in discovery of the foppicalnesse of that book , but i spare to spend any more time or paper upon it then its worth ; besides having by the last argument above urg'd stockt him up by the stumps , and by the following considerations and returns to sundry of his self confuting sentences blasted some of his broadest shews , and chopt off not a few of his most flourishing branches , i shall not weary my self further in fighting with any more of his figleaves , for they consequently will die of themselves , and so till the lord have mercy upon him which is the best good i can , and the worst hurt i do desire should befall him , and take him up into nearer acquaintance with the truth of his gospel , he must lie where he is for me , onely because there seems to be one scruple more behind , which though it be but a g●at , i see many strain at i shall onely blow it out of the way , and so hasten from further handling of this head of infant holinesse , to the rest of those mediums , whereby you the ashford disputants undertake to prove believers infants to have the holy spirit . babist . the holinesse of that fleshly seed which was circumcised under the law was not ceremoniall and typicall onely ; nor onely appertaining to moses tabernacle , testament and law as the holinesse of the priests , altar , sacrifices , and other legall services was : for that indeed as it began with moses , so ended in christ crucified , but this holiness in the seed and the matter of infant church-membership and circumcision upon this birth priviledge , and covenant holinesse was before the law of moses , for that people were a holy seed and children of the promise made to abraham gen. . and thereupon circumcised years before moses , and the law , end therefore as it began not with it , so neither is it to be ab●ogated together with moses law . baptist. though the covenant of circumcision , i. e the promise of the land of canaan to abrahams fleshly seed , who by birth were a holy seed that were to inherit that holy land , and circumcision it self also the token of it were long before moses , yet did they belong to moses law , that is now abolisht , and thereto are they by christ himself accounted to appertain and plainly call'd the law of moses , ioh. . , . and as circumcision and the birth priviledge of abrahams fleshly seed , so many mo things were many years before moses was born ; as offerings and sacrifices , and distinctions of cleanness and uncleanness of beasts , and yet all were but pieces of the ceremoniall law of moses , and were to cease utterly under christ , neither is it any good consequence at all to argue thus concerning any thing , viz. it was before moses was born , and before moses gave the law , and therefore no part of the ceremonial law , for many parts of that law of moses were in being before moses himself had any being , and yet are reputed to no other then moses testament , as well as many things that were done no less then years before christ came in person , are reputed as apperatining to his testament , and to tell you the truth both the gospel and the law , both the old testament and the new , though neither of them perfectly , yet in part and secundum quid ( as you use to say ) i. e. in some respects , and remote beginnings were both in being as high as adam and abell ; even thousands of years before either moses or christ were born , after whose names the two testaments are called : for as what was of the gospel was called after christ , though a thousand years before christ came , or the gospel began in its last and most clear and perfect promulgation , for in heb. . . moses is said to esteem the reproach of christ as great riches &c. so that we see the crosse of christ was before christ was born , even so what was a part of the typical law , or old covenant was stiled mosaical though some parcels of it were given out , and in use before moses was born ; yea circumcision it self which was four hundered year elder then moses , is said to be given by moses , and called the law of moses : moses gave you circumcision &c. and ye on the sabbath circumcise a man , that the law of moses may not be broken ioh. . . . and not only circumcision and sacrifices but even the whole law is said to come by moses , though circumcision and sacrifices , which were parts of it , came long before him , and grace and truth to come by christ , i. e. the very things themselves of which moses testament was but typical , and a shadow , though grace and truth were both in the world in part long before christ came personally into it , iohn . . yea something of both law and gospel came into the world before either moses or christ , yet they are denominated after them moses law , christs gospel , and said respectively to begin in them , to come with them , to be given by them , as if they had been altogether unheard of before these times ; because when they came they gave the things a new that were before , and also the fullness of the things respectively perteining to each testament , which in part were , but not in their ample perfection till their times ; and thus the law was said to begin at moses , gal. . . and the gospel to begin at christ birth , mark . the one years the other at least two thousand years after both covenants , viz. the law and the gospel too began in the word of promise to abraham , and his two seeds , isaac and christ , to whom respectively the two promises were made of two several canaans , the earthly and the heavenly , whereof the one , together with the promise it self that was made of it , and the promised seed to which it was made , viz. the fleshly seed of abraham by isaac , was a clear type of the other , i. e. of the promise and promised seed that by that promise were to be heirs thereof , viz. a spiritual seed of abraham by faith in jesus christ gen. . for there the inheritances of both covenants were both given in the word of promise , the one , viz. the heavenly canaan more darkly , through the other typing it out , the other i. e. the earthly canaan more clearly , plainly and in terminis ver . . . i will give to thee and thy seed after thee ( meaning isaac the onely seed , and heir of that promise , for ishmael and his had not that typical covenant established on them p. . . but isaac and his fleshly seed , as also a●titypically isaac and his fleshly seed , who were sons of the bondwoman , and a meer fleshly seed in reference to christ , though children of the free-woman and a promised seed ( in a type ) in reference to ishmael , had not the true , or gospell covenant established on them , meerly as born of abrahams body , but as believing , and so it is established on all men , but christ and believers ) i will give thee and thy seed ( saith he ) the land of canaan : even then and there god gave out both the covenants in the promise , viz. the gospel more implicitly , and in a shadow , the other i. e. the legal covenant concerning canaan in express terms together with a present grant of one of the grand ordinances of it , as a sign and token , viz. circumcision , typing out the spiritual iews or seed of abrahams circumcision in heart , that must be heirs only under the gospel , rom. . phil. . to which ordinative ▪ or beginning , or cardinal ordinance circumcision , many more statutes , laws , judgements , and ordinances were to be added in after ages , when the time of their entring their possession should draw nigh , to the observation of all which ( as in time god should give them out more clearly by his servant moses ( the deliverer , minister and mediator of that covenant ) circumcision was an obligation , and in these respects that covenant is called the covenant of circumcision act. . . and circumcision it self called an engagement to keep the whole law , i. e. binding to the performance of all things required to be done on mans part , i. e. the jewes in order to their enjoyment of canaan under that old testament or covenant , gal. . . for though circumcision , as well as that promised land , whereof it was a token , and that fleshly seed that were signed heirs by it , and all other the ordinances of divine service , which the first covenant then had , and in a manner every thing else under the law related thus far to the gospel covenant , as that they were types and shadowes of something answerable under the gospel , i. e. circumcision of the heart , and that other seed , i. e. iews inwardly , both answering to that circumcision and those iews which were outward only and in the flesh , rom. . . , . phillip . . , . and of the heavenly inheritance , which these inward iews , i. e. believers or circumcised ones in heart are heirs to by promise ; yet both that sign circumcision , and the promise signified by it , were all alike relating immediately to that old testament of moses , as parts thereof , and were not parts , but paterns only of the new ; nor was circumcision any other then an ordinance of the law of moses , and not a direct rule for us to square or steer by in our dispensing any ordinance of the gospel , for that were to disparage the law-giver , we are under even that other great prophet christ , whom moses pointed at , saying deut. . a prophet shall the lord your god raise up unto you , him shall ye hear in all things , &c. as if he were not as faithful and punctual to the full in fitting lawes for his house , the gospel church , as moses was for that old israel or church under the law , which was his , heb. . . . . . . though therefore both covenants were in being , i. e. the law and the gospell , before either moses or christ , the one concerning the earthly canaan to a fleshly seed in a type ; the other a heavenly canaan to a spiritual seed as the antitype ; yet are they said to begin the one in moses , the other in christ , because these two were respectively the two mediatours of these two covenants , and as it were the two several masters and law givers to the two seeds , or the two several families of abraham , viz. the two churches under the law ; and the gospel , the fleshly israel , and the spiritual , the personal comming of which two mediators and abiding for a time in their several houses , did perfect what was lacking in them before in point of outward ordinances , and institutions , and from thenceforth , i. e. from the several periods of their presence with them , establish them in a more compleat posture then before , and each church severally in its own proper order . moses then was the mediator of the old testament , established upon earthly promises : and so gave precepts accordingly ; but christ the mediator of the new , which is called a better testament established upon better promises , heb. . . and so gives his precepts not by the mouth of moses but as he pleases . besides all this , though the covenant of circumcision made with that fleshly holy seed , began before moses , yet whether that denomination of a holy seed , a holy nation , and people did begin so high as abraham , or before such time as moses and aaron had according to gods command to them , ceremonially sanctified by the bloud of sprinkling and dedicated both the book of the covenant and all the people , and all the vessells of the ministery , and all other things pertaining to that tabernacle ( for both that holy people and all their ceremonially holy things whereby you need not be ignorant unless you will that the holiness of that seed and their sanctuary was the same , and began and were to end both together , were first consecrated , didicated , purified , sanctified all at one time under moses heb. . . . . . . &c. ) whether i say the holiness of the seed began so high as abraham is a thing so out af doubt to me , that i dare say that as the holy land was not relatively holy till they came into it , so the holy seed , as well as the other holy things of that covenant , were not ceremonially consecrated , nor formally sanctified , nor vouchsafed that title of a holy seed , though vertually they were a choise seed before , till a little before they were to enter it , and howbeit i challenge no man , yet i intreat any man in the world to shew me if he can where they were denominated and distinguished from all other people as unclean by that term of a holy people till god intituled them so by moses , exod . . ye shall be holy men unto me neither shall ye eat any flesh that is torn of beasts , ye shall cast it to doggs : which place compared with levit. . . . deut. . . chap. . . chap. . . doth so plainly shew these two things . first , that the holiness there spoken of began but thenceforth . secondly , that it was but a certain ceremonial distinction , and a holinese opposite to that kind of defilement , which might be contracted by eating of unclean beasts , and so fully ceased in christ , that i even blush to read mr. blake , and have been ashamed in my mind to hear some independents also bring those scriptures , wherein god called israel a holy people to himself , to prove , that an inchurched believers meer fleshly seed is now by nature holy in the same sense . now then let us hear the conclusion of this whole matter : of the things that have been spoken this is the summe , viz. that there are three kinds of holiness , of which when you say children of believing parents have holiness , and consequenrly the spirit , you undoubtedly mean one , viz. matrimonial , ceremonial , moral . the middlemost of which , because your fellow laborers against the gospel intend that chiefly in their books , i have treated on last , and most largely , and i now say three things of it in special . first , that it is a holinesse which once was , but now is not in being . secondly , that it is a holiness which of it self , when it was in being , as it was at the beginning of the gospel before christ crucified , could not without faith and moral holiness interest the persons in whom it was seated in any of these three things , viz. gospel promises , gospel priviledges , or gospel ordinances . . not the promises , for they were made to abraham in christ and his spiritual seed ; not his own fleshly seed upon such terms , as bare birth of his body , or such holiness and righteousness as was under the law intituling to canaan rom. . . . gal. . . . . not the priviledges , viz. gospel immunities , and church-membership , for those that could plead they were under the typical freedomes of the old house , or church under the law , as abrahams seed only were , are denyed by christ to be that holy seed that should stand in the gospel house , that was now to be built , or share in that spiritual freedome which the sonne gives , which is the only freedome indeed , unlesse they did abrahams works , iohn . . to the th . . nor yet the ordinances , no not so much as baptism the initiating ordinance it self , for when that old holy seed remaining yet under their relative and denominative holiness unabolished , did plead it as to baptism , they were put back by iohn , and not permitted , barely upon that account upon which they stood in the old house , without faith , unless they now believed and amended their lives whose repulse of them when they came to his baptism was this viz. begin not to say we have abraham to our father &c. mat. . , , . luke . . . thirdly , suppose baptism were entailed so to that holinesse and a meer fleshly seed of believers , or of believing abraham himself as truly as t is true it is not , yet how grossely were you overseen gentlemen in undertaking to prove the holy spirit by it to be in infants , for that 's the probandum , the very thing which by the holinesse of infants you went about to make good , for the minor of your first sylogism which was this , but little children have the holy spirit , being denied was proved ( say you ) first by their faith , secondly by their holinesse , thirdly by those eulogies given them in scripture : if then by holinesse you mean this kind of holiness , i mean ceremonial , which once was in the iews by nature , you have a wet eele by the tail then indeed , for ask but mr. blake and he 'le tell you , that that holinesse was in thousands who yet had not the holy spirit , yea in truth all the iews had that holinesse , of whom not a tenth , even then when they had it , were either in infancy , or at years morally sanctified , or indued with the holy spirit : and as i have said these three things in special , concerning that one kind of holinesse , so i have three things in general to say in short concerning al these three sorts of holinesse viz. first , one of them was in infants of old , and now is not but is vanisht , and when it was it proved not the spirit viz. ceremonial . secondly , another is , but nothing to your purpose , i mean the proof of the spirit , though it be in most infants viz. matrimonial . thirdly , the other is not yet come for ought yet appears to infants viz. morall , which if it did appear to be in them positive , qualitativè , as an inherent quality , not negative onely so as to be without sin , or absolutely innocent ( for absolute innocency hath no need of baptism ) then i should say something more to you , but you see it doth not , therefore though you said nothing then ( as i wish since i had suffered you to do ) from infants holinesse , to the proof of their having the spirit and right to baptism , yet i have searcht , but cannot possibly find what holinesse you could possibly have proved it by . i have been the larger here , though you gave me but a bare hint , by the nomination onely of infants holinesse : first , because here lies indeed the very principal knot and basis of this controversie , which you erring in are consequently erroneous in all your wayes , for error minimus in principio fit major in medio , maximus in fine . and as for all o●her arguments pro and con they are but as auxilliarie hereunto . secondly , because i am willing also sith you call so much for it , to give out my own grounds for the truth , by the way as i go along in disproving of your false ones , that you may either yield to them if sound , or answer and disprove them , if unsound and rotten : in the residue i shall be so much the briefer . the next argument whereby you undertake to prove infants of believing parents to have the holy spirit , is drawn from those eulogies given them in scripture , not inferior to those of the best saints , from whence you thus argue . disputation . those who are invited to come to christ mark . . mat. . . luk. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verse . babes such as are new come from the womb , blessed by christ , declared to have right to the kingdome of heaven , set forth for examples of innocency , not to be offended guarded from heaven by angels &c. have the holy ghost . but such are little children , disproof . you say they have eulogies i. e. good language and commendations given to them , not inferiour to those of the best saints . nay sirs , they are superiour in some sense to the best of saints , for the best here have sin , but these have yet none , christ taking away adams sin , and they adding none of their own , and yet it will not follow that they are to be baptized , for they have yet no need of it , muchlesse that they have the holy spirit , which is the thing you would prove by it . as for these particular eulogies , which you instance in , if the most special among them do clearly prove the subject thereby denominated , to have that holy spirit that entitles to baptism , then i le agree that mine are , but if it do not , then i hope you will agree to it that your wits are little better then sodden ; in order to the fuller finding out of the full weight of each eulogy to such a purpose , i le consider some of them asunder , that being the best way , and not as you ( babilonicae brevitatis gratiâ ) have wrapt and swadled them all up together into one syllogism , and if you think it too tedious so to do , i would have you to know my pains in writing will be tantamount to your patience in reading . the first eulogy , which you say scripture gives to little children , is their invitation to come to christ , from whence your argument in form must runne thus . babist . those who are invited to come to christ have the holy spirit , and are thereupon to be baptized . but little infants of believing parents are invited to come to christ , ergo they have the holy spirit and are to be baptized . baptist. to which i retort , stating onely another minor in room of yours , as the subject to answer to your middle term , and then judge your selves how false your foundation i. e. your major is , and consequently your building or conclusion . thus those that are invited to come to christ have the holy spirit , and are thereupon to be baptized . but all men and women in the world are invited to come to christ , mark. . . mat. . . cor. . . . . isa. . . mar. . . rev. . ergo all men and women in the world have the the holy spirit , and are therevpon to be baptized . i need say no more to wise men . the eulogy given from scripture to little children is this viz. they are blessed by christ whence your argument must run thus . babist . those that are blessed by christ have the holy spirit , and so present right to baptism . but little children of believing parents are blessed by christ , ergo they have the holy spirit , and present right to baptism . baptist. i answer first by denying your major , which is not universally true , for persons may be blessed by christ , and yet not have the holy spirit , for better understanding of which let it be considered that persons may be blest various wayes , from which yet to their having the holy spirit there 's no consequence viz. outwardly and inwardly , temporally and spiritually , with blessings of the body and of the soul , of this life and that to come : first with outward temporal bodily blessings ( abstract from the other ) they may be and often are blessed , when yet at present at least ( for so they must have as to your present purpose ) they have not the holy spirit , who possibly also never have it in all their lives , i mean in that sense from which peter argues thus to their baptism act. . for that some of you say when you can make advantage on 't another way , was the spirit in the extraordinary gifts of it onely , as tongues , prophecy , utterance &c. by which sense how ever your infancy is clear cut off from all capacity of having it , and so you are confuted by your own party in the very corner stone of this your babish building ; but i le give you the advantage of your own personal tenet let it be what it will ( save only that forenamed common sense of the spirit , wherein i have told you , t is in all men , who yet are not therefore to be baptized ) i say again , both men and women , and children may be blessed by christ outwardly only , as with health , peace , plenty , fruitful seasons , mat. . . god is good to all , and sends sun and rain i. e. all temporal blessings on the good and evil , just and unjust . the blessings of bodily protections , as to be guarded with angells from heaven from dangers , and mischiefs ; which is another of the eulogies you here instance in , which to save your selves and me some labor , i le take in hear , it being but a temporal blessing , from which it follows not that such as are blessed with it must consequently have the holy spirit ; also bodily salvation from and sanation of dis●ases , distempers , by christ , who is a saviour of the body ; these blessings of the body , the barn , the basket , and the store , health , and external happinesse persons may be , and often are blessed with from god , who fills their bellies with hid treasure , so that they prosper and are not plagued , when yet they are wicked in their lives , and far from the holy spirit . secondly ; if you take christs blessing ( as in this place you must , for it s so expounded and plainly expressed in one of the three evangelists you quote , which write all the same thing in some difference of prase ) for his praying for the persons whom he blessed , i say that even spiritually persons may be blessed by christ in prayer for them , yea blessed with the blessing of the spirit it self , as de futuro , and and yet not , pro presenti , have the spirit : for christ blessed his disciples , luke . . i. e. prayed for them that they might be endued with the spirit , and yet that he then prayed for , or by lifting up his hands , to the father then blessed them with , did not come on them till some while after : in this sense isaac blessed iacob gen. . . . iacob ioseph , gen. . . . the high-priest all the people , num. . . moses all israel before his departure also , deut. . . &c , and yet they were not actually possessed of the blessings just then , when they blessed them , but along time after . there is a blessing by promise , as god blessed abraham with a son , and the land of canaan ; a blessing by prophesy as iacob blessed all his sonnes fortelling , as i may say , their several fortunes gen. ' . a blessing by prayer , as in the forenamed places , and in this of mat. . . mark . . and there 's a blessing by putting into actual possession , and fruition of a mercy , so god blessed israel with the real enjoyment of the land of canaan , and all temporal blessings in that earthly place , & so antitypically will once bless all the spiritual seed of abraham with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places by christ iesus eph. . . now the three first waies of blessing persons are all concerning things to come , and sometimes a long while after ; yea in prayer christ blest all that ever should believe on him through the word to the worlds end , ioh. . so long before the thing befell them , that it was even before most of them were born . as to your minor then , wherein you say , little children were blessed by christ , i grant it to be true , but not in any such sence as truely argues at all that in their infancy they had the holy spirit . for first , it of the two most plainly appears that his blessing was no other then bodily infirmities , which are as incident to infants as men , and the end for which they brought them shews the utmost he did to them , which was not that he should baptize them ( as i shall more clearly shew by and by ) but that he should touch them , and put his hands on them , and pray : no question t was in order to healing , for t was at a time when he healed many others , if you compare this passage as t is in mat. . with the first and second verses of the chapter : yea v. . t is plainly expressed what he did , i. e. he laid his hands upon them , and departed thence ; besides luke saies they brought little children unto him also that he should touch them : which [ also ] shews that others were brought too , as sick folks commonly were , because vertue went out of him , so that as many as touched him were made perfectly whole . secondly , if he did blesse them spiritually in his prayers , t was doubtless ( yet all whom he healed were not so blessed neither , witness the nine leapers ) concerning things to come , and if he prayd for their particular salvation , yet they might not immediately have the spirit . but thirdly , what ever t was he did to those particular infants ( which whether they were believers infants or no too no man can tell ) for many sought him for loaves , and outward mercies , and many for healing of themselves , and children , meerly that they might be rid of their burdens , on whom yet he had compassion for all that ) yet first what is this to other infants , or to ours that cannot now be brought to his person ? besides what more to believers than unbelievers infants ? what more to any then to all ? away therefore for shame with such dry divinity as this : he touched those children and blest them , that were then presented to him , that he might touch them , therefore all believers infants have the holy spirit , and must be baptized : away with such dribling dispute also , it is not fit for christs school , nor mans neither . the next eulogie you mention is this , viz. their being declared to have right to the kindome of heaven , whence your argument must run thus . babist . those who are declared to have right to the king dome of heaven have the holy spirit . but little children of believing parents are declared to have right to the kingdome of heaven . ergo they have the holy spirit . baptist. in answer to which i must distinguish upon your middle term . there 's a twofold right to the kingdome of heaven , viz. a remote right , and an immediate right , conditional or absolute , a right in potentiâ , and a right in actu . the remote , conditional , potential , right , ad regnum , to the kingdome , upon future contingencies , and events ; this all persons that ever were born into the world have . i. e. conditionally , or in case they dying in infancy , do no evil , or living to years shall believe , and obey the gospel : but what is this right to your purpose ? for verily first , it proves not the holy spirit , which you speak of to be in those that have it . secondly , if it did it proves it to be in unbelievers as well as believers seed , as unto whom , when they come to years , christ is a common salvation , and the gospel of the kingdome is to be tendered , and that not in mo●kage but truly , and really as theirs , till they reject , or put it from them , 〈◊〉 as the ●ews to all generations since christ have done ; that they may believe , and believing have life through his name , i. e. immediate right to it here , and possession hereafter : or if they happen to dy in the innocency of their infancie before they have ( to speak in your own phrase p. . ) by any actual sin barred themselves or deserved to be exempted from that generall st●te of littl children declared in scripture viz. secundum te o accountant , right to the kingdome of heaven , then have they all such apitudinem regnandi , as will cost the priest-hood of england for all his christian charity in declaring the right of belivers seed to the kingdome , more reason than they ever did , or yet have to bestow that way , to clear themselves from the just censure of antichristian cruelty , for their excluding , and damning all the dying infants of others , which are rari quippe boni , numero vix sunt totidem quot &c. counting the little corner believers will stand in , at least no less then twentie to one . and as for that other more immediate , actual , absolute right to the kingdom , when it shal come , this mediante morte in infantiâ , all dying infants have as well as some , and not in infantiâ ) all dying infants of believers th●n of unbelievers , for even of such ( i mean all dying infants , for infants living to years are no more infants ; though it be questionable too whether christ speaks of the same in the place in hand , or of such as are like them in innocency &c. of the two most likely to be the truth ) of such i say i grant the kingdom of heaven to be ( for ought i know ) but of no persons living to years , whether believers seed or unbelievers , nisi mediante fide , et obedientiâ , and then they have actual and present right to it , all which notwithstanding ( mark what i say , for it cuts in two the sinews of your consequence ) t will not universally follow neither that those that have right have ( pro presenti ) the holy spirit , for though nothing can come between such as finally believe , and the kingdome , and that fulnesse of the spirit that comes in with it , of which the spirit here is an earnest , and the spirit it self as the earnest , so as to cut them off from the future possession of both ( god who cannot ly having promised the kingdom , as conditionally to all people at years , if they believe , so absolutely to all that finally do believe ) yet many of those that believing the things spoken pertaining to the kingdom , and so having more immediate right then before ( unlesse they loose it again ) may ( pro presenti ) be without not onely the kingdom and fulnesse of the promise , which they stand actually heirs to by faith , till the purchased possession come to be actually possessed by all the saints at once , but for a time too without the spirit ( as but an earnest ) for this , in the common way of gods dispensation of old , was neither promised nor bestowed on any by promise ( unlesse at any time god was better then his word as he was act. . nor on good ground to be expected till after faith , repentance , obedience in baptism and prayer , witnesse the forecited places , iohn . . act. . . . . . . . . . . . luk. . . prov. . . the next eulogy given to little infants , whereby you argue the holy spirit to be in them , is their being set forth for examples of innocency , whence your argument must be thus . babist : those that are set forth for examples of innocency have the holy spirit . but little children of believing parents are set forth for examples of innocency . ergo they have the holy spirit . baptist. bare simple innocency , harmlessnesse and freedom from hurt proves neither holinesse , nor holy spirit to be where it is , it being capable to be not onely in infants , who in respect of age and stature , though not of kind and nature , are in an ordinary way at least an uncapable subject of the other , but also in creatures by kind uncapable at any time of the spirit , viz. doves , sheep , lambs , every of which ( as well as infants ) are set forth also as examples of meeknesse , patience , innocency , silence , under suffering , as the ant is also for diligence and forecast , the vine for fruitfulnesse , the serpent for wisdom to the saints , and yet have not thereupon the holy spirit , yea eulogies for some one particular natural excellency , qualification and indowment , and those not inferiour to those of the best saints may be given , and that as an example for the saints , not onely to other creatures and innocent infants , but also to such as are elsewise injurious , and no way exemplary to others at all , e. g. the unjust steward luke . who though a meer child of the world , yet is commended by christ as having done wisely , yea more wisely ( in suo genere ) then the children of light , and given as a pattern of prudence and forecast to them , and yet i should be in doubt whether that man were well in his wits or no , that should argue from those eulogies to those holy spirit . secondly from which innocency yet , if it would follow that the spirit is in infants , it must be in all as well as some : for is one infant more free from actual sin , and in point of innocency propounded as our pattern by christ more then another ? is not innocency in the whole state of infants , even in unbelievers infants as much to the full as in the other ? the next eulogy is this , that they are not to be offended ; from whence your argument must run thus . babist . those that are not to be offended have the holy spirit . but little children of believing parents are not to be offended . ergo they have the holy spirit . baptist. to which by way of answer i le onely compose another syllogism , and so leave you to see ( as you may do without a candle ) and to search out the sillinesse of your own . those who are not to be offended have the holy spirit . but little children of unbelieving parents , and also the very iews and gentiles , as well as the church of god , are not to be offended . ergo little children of unbelieving parents , yea even the iews and the gentiles , as well as the church of god , have the holy spirit . and so sirs having weighed all your eulogies one after another in the ballance of right reason , and found them too light , i le onely add one argument of mine own from the very places you quote , from which if either men did not dote on them , because they are found in the old liturgy , and the new directory , or were not resolved to take tag , rag and long tail , to scrape together even all the impertinencies that ere they can meet with , in proof of infant baptism , rather then to forgo it now they are ingaged in 't , there is no clearer consequence in the world then that infants are not to be baptized , and then i le pass on to your other proofs . if those very numericall infants spoken of in those very places mat. . mar. . luke . from whence , and from the carriage and practise of christ there towards them , the priest-hood pleads the baptism of other infants , of whom christ did never so individually declare ( as he did of these , that they should be brought to him , and that of such is the kingdome of heaven ) were not baptized by christ , nor his disciples in the primitive times of the gospel , which are our pattern , then it follows not from the example of these infants that other infants are , but rather that they are not to be baptized . but those very infants spoken of in those very places from whence &c. were not baptized either by christ or by his disciples &c. ergo it follows not from the example of those infants that other infants are , but rather that they are not to be baptized . the major is most undeniably clear , for by what warrant may we take upon us to baptize other infants , when those infants were not baptized that were brought to christs own person , and whose particular personal right to the kingdom ( as you your selves say ) christ there declares ? for t is contended by you that the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. of such ] must be meant [ of these ] not [ of such ] as are like to these [ whereby you utterly overthrow your selves too ] for if that speech [ of such ] be in sense and signification [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] i. e. not [ talium ] but [ horum ] then it can reach no more to other infant● of the same kind , then to the other kind of infants i. e. the saints , these being both viz. the one in specie , the other in qualificatione at most but such , and not the same , for the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expresses all that are alike to these , whether in kind or qualification onely , or both , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is individuum indigitativum ( as it were that points out these individuals that were then present and no more : so that , to allow you your own fained sense ( i say ) if those were not baptized whom christ so individually demonstrates , and indigitates as heirs of the kingdome of heaven , much lesse may any other infants of whom ( if you render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and give the sense to be [ horum ] not talium ] christ can't be understood as speaking there at all . for the clearing therefore of the minor , which onely will need proof in this syllogism ( unlesse you will say let christ and his disciples do what they will , wee l do what we list ) consider this ; that t is well nigh universally confessed by your selves that these infants were not baptized . mr. cottons words upon this very place m are these viz. neither do i alledge this place for to prove that christ baptized these infants , for it doth not appear that their fathers who brought them were baptized themselves , and therefore neither might their children be baptized according to rule ; and as he speaks thus of this place mark . so much after the same sort he speaks concerning another place viz , act. . . . . from whence you also ground the baptism of believers infants , from whence also as we do from this , we thus argue the contrary viz. if the infants of those parents act. . that were obedient to the faith and baptized , were not baptized with the rest , then its evident that infants even of baptized believers were not wont to be baptized then . but those infants then were not &c. ergo &c. the minor of this syllogism also mr. mr. cotton proves to my hands , who saies thus , n but to deal ingenuously and faithfully with you the text viz. acts . . might hold forth a just colour of an objection , if you had so applied it against the argument gathered out of v. . . for the baptizing of infants , for if they who were baptized were such as gladly received his word verse . then it doth not appear out of this place that infants were at that time baptized with the rest , because they could not receive the word , much lesse gladly , least of all expresse their gladnesse by any visible profession . this objection i confesse would have prevailed with me to have forborne any proof of the baptism of infants out of this this place , were i● not partly for the reasons which have been alledged above from v. . partly also for that i find the lord iesus is wont to accept the acts of parents in the duties of the second commandement as done for themselves and their children ; these are mr. cottons own confessions about these two places , in the last of which he seems to say ( if i aim right ) that those children act. . were not baptized in their own persons , but accounted as baptized by god , accepting their parents baptism on their behalf as well as though they had been baptized in their own persons , which if it be so , is of it self a clear argument against infant baptism ; as for the other place mark . i never could meet with the man yet that was so shamelesse as to assert that the infants there spoken of were baptized , excepting dr. holmes , and he indeed helps this lame businesse ore the stile , and lends a left handed lift towards the proof of it , that these infants that were brought to christ were baptized , and that thus . o if christ speaks of and doth such after higher things to such little children , whilst little children , how much more may that which in nature antecedes , and goes before these ( namely baptism ) be administred to them , whilst little children ? but there is mark. . mention of , and doing of an higher thing then baptism , namely confirmation of them by prayer and imposition of hands , ergo how much more may they be baptized ? the same he both argues and asserts p in these words viz , they were brought to him for an outward ordinance , imposition of hands , that ordinance given to them did suppose a former , namely baptism ( as we have shewd ( saith he ) ) above ) and therefore if a little child be brought for the first ordinance , that he ( as such ) is capable of , as children were of circumision , it must be to baptism , and a little below he addes this viz. christ did not onely cherish their faith that brought them , but also cherished that baptism the children had received . in which expressions he is so unexpresse , or at least so whi●ling to and fro , that he must have more brains then i , that can pick out of them what he means distinctly by them : for in some of them one would think he meant as if those infants were baptized before they came to christ , and were brought onely now for imposition of hands , in some again as if they had bin then baptized , and brought then to both that and to the other , but which of the two he means it matters not , so long as i shall prove by and by , that t was neither this nor that . but by the way i desire all men to take notice of dr. holmes his proofs , whereby he strives to clear it that the infants brought to christ had then the ordinance of imposition of hands , and so had been baptized before , and how they are not onely nothing cogent , but so clearly cogent and consequential to the very contrary , that he that reads them with reason must needs conclude the doctors right eye of reason was not a little bleared ( not to say absolutely blinded ) by one thing or other when he wrote them : yea all he saies for the clearing of that , doth clearly contradict and overthrow it . in proof of what he saies in this particular viz. that the ordinance of laying on of hands was dispensed to these infants that were brought to christ , he alledges the practise of the antient times , at it is mentioned by pareus , caluin , hophman , marlorat , bullinger , and cotton too , which all according as dr. holmes himself hath recorded their words , first severally in chap. seventh of his animad-versions p. . . . and summarily ore again as it were to set his folly on high that all might see it , in the th chapter p. . . do testifie uno ore with one consent that in antient time infants were not admitted to imposition of hands , nor confirmed in the fruition of church estate thereby , that being indeed as himself asserts , from them too , one prime intent of that ordinance which is one of the foundation doctrines to church fellowship , till to use the very same phrase he quotes out of them , being past their childhood , past innocency grown up to years , youths at least , that made profession of faith , they were received not to that onely , but to the supper , and all other church liberties also . by which term antient times t is not easie to discern neither from him so indistinctly doth he utter himself in this , as also in most of his other matter , whether he mean the true and pure primitive times of the most antient fathers the apostles , which is our rule , or the new and post-primitive times of the fathers since them , which though declining daily into corruption , the priest-hood hath ever for ought i find , in more account then the other , yet by one clause he seems more to allude to the apostles dayes , viz. in p. . the last line , where after he had cited the fore-named authors , and their joint opinion concerning the dispensing imposition of hands in foretimes to grown persons onely , he adds this viz. so that the original of imposition of hands came down from the apostles ; thus far these learned men ( saith he ) but which ere he means it makes much what one for him , there being no times , primitive , or posteren wherein the ordinance of laying on of hands was given to infants , unlesse in that midnight of popery wherein they gave the supper to them also : for is it not equally absurd , and ( if worse can be ) worse then senseless , for a man to gather so undoubtedly ( as he doth ) that christ at that time dispensed the ordinance of laying on of hands to those infants in mark . in their infancy , because the apostles and churches in after times , whose pattern he was , did dispense it to persons ever , when they were past childhood , and grown to years ? doth not this rather most evidently evince one of these two things viz. either that the imposition of hands christ gave to these infants was not that ordinance the apostles in antient churches practised to men at years onely ( and that it was not i shall shew by and by ) or else that the apostles did dispense the gospell ordinances to other subjects then christ himself did , whom they were to follow , viz. he to infants , and they onely to persons past infancy ? moreover if the apostles did lay on hands at years , though christ in infancy ▪ what if christ had baptized those infants in infancy also ? are we more tied to follow his example in that , then in the dispensation of laying on of hands ? you see therefore how the doctor though he borrows his friend mr. cottins reading , and reasons out of antiquity ( as himself saies p. . of his animadversions ) to make good a shameful assertion , and argumentation of his own viz. that those infants which were then brought to christ had both baptism and imposition of hands , and even therefore baptism before , because imposition of hands then , yet makes so bold with it for all that , as flatly to contradict not himself onely , but mr. cotton also , whose judgement is far sounder then his in this case , by inferring two things from mr. cot●ons words , clean contrary both to mr. cottons own opinion ( for he professedly denies that these infants had so much as baptism ) and to the true consequence of his words also ( for mr. cottons words directly argue that both re v●ra , and in his judgement of old there was no dispensing the ordinance of imposition of hands at all on infants , till they were grown up to years . how little therefore the doctor dese●ves to be credited in his consequences a fool may see . neverthelesse least any should more credit and cleave to doctor holmes his odd conceits , weo saies these infants had both baptism and imposition of hands , then to mr. cottons candid concessions , and plain confessions that they had neither ; i le add a little to evince it , that they had neither baptism nor imposition of hands in any such sense as the doctor dreams on from christ at that time at all . first , that they were not baptized i argue thus . if they were baptized , then t was either before they were brought to christ , or else by christ or his disciples then when brought to him . but neither before nor then . ergo as yet not at all . if you say they had baptism before they were brought to christ , i wonder how they came by it , or where they had it , or who administred it , sith this surely was their first appearance before christ and his disciples , and how any else but they could do it ask your selves , who make more ado then needs about the bare administrators of baptism as if they must needs be none but ministers in orders : if you say iohn baptist might do it ▪ my no is better then your yea if i say he might not , for as you have nothing but thought to ground your thoughts on that he did baptiz● any infants , so i have iohns one deed declaring that he did not , by whom no●●ou nor i neuer find that any were baptized but in doing of that , which infants cannot do viz. confessing their sins . yet of the two this seems rather to be dr. holmes's fancy , that they had been baptized before they were brought thither , for p. , they are supposed here saith he , to have been before baptized , because they were brought to this higher addition , of imposition of hands , and blessing . if you say they were then baptized when brought , it must be either by christ or his disciples , but neither by him nor them , ergo not at all at that time . first not by christ , for he baptized not all with his own hands , onely he is said to baptize because his disciples did it by order and commission from him iohn . . . with iohn . . secondly , nor were they brought to him for any such end as that he should baptize them , but that he should touch them and pray , which so soon as he had done , he went his way . secondly not by his discipl●s , for they were not brought to them , but to him , and if you say it seems they came to them first , because they blam'd those that brought them , i say that argues plainly that they were not brought to be baptized , for if they had , and had bin also the true , lawful , wonted , and known subjects of baptism to the disciples ( as they must have been ere this time , if either iohn or themselves had used to baptize infants among the rest ) they could not have been so ignorant and forgetful of , or carnally contradictory to their own and iohns orders , and wonted fashion , as so frowardly to find fault with , and forbid their coming to be baptized now , but would have rejoiced in , rather then reproved their forwardness● in it , for t is most certain that they had been not onely spectators of iohns baptism , but dispensers of baptism themselves also long enough before this time , to have been instructed in the true subject of it , for the bringing of those infants was after iohn was beheaded , but christ by his disciples had baptized in iudea before iohn was in prison , and whilest iohn was yet himself baptizing in euon ; yea and had made , and baptized more disciples than iohn . besides the ground of their rebuke of those that came with little children was no doubt their care , and loathness to have christ too much prest , in which case they sometimes rebuked others , when they throngd upon him so fast for healing , that they had no leasure so much as to eat bread . secondly , that they came not now under imposition of hands in that sense the dr treats on , is most evident . first , by the drs own quotations of mr calvins , and mr cottons readings concerning the practise of the first times ; for so far are they from clearing such a thing , as he alledges them for , that they clear the clean contrary , the subjects of that imposition of hands , they speak of , being only professors of the faith , and not infants ; yea how doth d holmes belabor himself to prove it , that those to whom the primitive churches dispeased imposition of hands were persons grown to years , more then doth his cause good , and more then any wise man puts him to by the denial of it , but those that were brought to christ for it here spoken of none other then very infants in their nonage . secondly in that this ordinance of laying on of hands was not likely yet in use and being in this prae-primitive-period , wherein christ laid his hands on these infants ; the ends in order whereunto it was enjoined , and practised when it was , being such as in this juncture , not only infants , but also the very disciples themselves were uncapable of viz. ( as the doctors own quotations truly shew ) perfect and full fruition of , confirmation in church state , gospel church liberties , church-fellowships in all church ordinances , viz. the supper , and suppications , and also the receiving of the holy spirit , none of all which were yet given to any , in such wise as afterwards they were , no not to the disciples till either just before ( as the supper ) or else after christ was crucified : for howbeit matter for the gospel church , and fellowship was fitting , preparing and gathering in by preaching and baptizing even from iohn , who began the gospel two or three years before that , and the gospel church was as it were in a certain chaos , or congeries of matter not yet digested into its perfect form , somewhile before the jews church was ended in christ death , yet it came not to have its own formall constitution , in point of visible order , posture , fellowship , government , officers , discipline , endowments with the spirit , whereby they might be built up an habitation of god , and ordinance of laying on of hands in prayer , specially relating thereunto , till after christ crucified , and ascended , the holy spirit being not yet come , because jesus not yet glorified . thirdly they came not for this but for another kind of imposition of hand● , which is otherwise called touching , which who ever had from him were ( in case of diseases ) made whole . they came surely for that laying on of hands which dr holmes himself speaks of p. . out of hophman ; viz. a laying on in order to healing , for which healing , by a touch of him , many men , women and children came , or else were brought to christ , while others that were well came to hear him mark . . . . . luke . . . . mat. . . . . . . this imposition of hands therefore that these infants had was not that which persons , when past infancy only , had in the churches after , and for dr holmes to say the apostles and ancient churches confirmed persons by prayer , and laying on of hands , when they were past infancy , and not in it , therefore surely christ to the same intent and purpose laid hands on these in infancy , is equally absurd as to argue thus , viz. the apostles and primitive times practised baptism to men and women onely confessing sin , and professing faith , therefore it is most fitting , and likely now to be the will of christ , that persons should be sprinkled in their nonage : so brittle are all the bottoms you yet build on , but to proceed . disputation . know ye not that the spirit of god is in you except ye be reprobates , and they dare not say that little children are all reprobates . also review page . they are not reprobates , therefore christ is in them . disproof . nor do we say that little children are all reprobates , nor durst you say that any of them are reprobates , if meer blindness did not embolden you thereunto : for the truth is consider them yet living in the capacity of infants , and so though in foro dei , & in esse intentionali , & conditionali , i. e. with god , who calleth things that yet are not as though they were , and foresees both what they will do , and what he accordingly will do with them hereafter , they are already known to be either of one sort or the other , yet in foro hominum , and in esse actuali , i. e. actually , and in the sight of men they are ( finally ) neither reprobated nor elected till they finally receive christ , or reject him . yea i wish you were all but as sure to be saved , as it is sure that none are ( quoad nos ) rejected , or devoted in the word , which is the coppy of gods decree , to eternal damnation , but upon account of their own actual transgression , and as t is sure that none at all of them that dy in infancy , and no more of those that live to years also are damned , 〈◊〉 such as finally put salvation away from them , and so judge themselves most worthy of the other ; for though of iacob and esau they being yet unborn , neither having done any good or evil , it was foretold by god , who foresaw what good and evil they would do in time ; and what he thereupon would do unto them , that the elder should serve the younger , yet this was foretold of , and fulfilled in their posterity , and not their persons , for though edom served israel , yet esau in person served not iacob , but iacob rather bowed before him , and as for that viz. iacob have i loved , esau have i hated , which you wot was spoken of them as from the womb , you shall find if you look again , that it was not spoken of their persons , but their posterity ; nor yet secondly of those without respect to edoms wickedness above the other ; much less thirdly before iacob and esau was born , and had acted good or evil , but so long after iacob and esau were born , and had done good and evil , that they were also ere that time , when this was spoken , mal. . many years since dead and rotten , but this would lead me into another controversie , of as large extent and consequence as this in hand , and therfore i will wave it here , yet not so as to decline the discourse of it with you , upon occasion , any more then of the other ; well then that they are not all reprobat●s it is asserted by you and us too , but what is this at all to your purpose ? for first , is there no medium between being a reprobate , and a present having the holy spirit ? there were twelve disciples at ephesus , which had not so much as heard of the holy spirit , so far were they from having it yet , yet dare you say they were all reprobates ? there were many men and women that believed the things spoken by philip pertaining to the kingdome , upon which the holy spirit had not yet fallen , were they all reprobates , because they had not yet received it ? or those thousands peter promised the holy spirit to , were they all reprobates , because they yet had it not , when he spake to them ? yea millions of men ly yet in wickedness , and so far from having , that at present they rather scoff at the holy spirit , yet dare you not say they are all reprobates ; for some of them may turn at christs reproof ( for ought you know ) therefore what consequence is there from not being reprobates , to a present possession of the holy spirit ? secondly , do you know so precisely which infants are elect , and which reprobate , as to take upon you to distinguish them by baptism ? or are all infants of unbelievers reprobate , so that you may accordingly denominate them for such by whole sale as you do ? do not the infants of unbelievers very often prove believers , and so elect , and precious ? and as ordinarily believers infants ( when they come to years i mean ) prove reprobates ? were not asa the son of wicked abia , and iosias of wicked ammon elected both , when ishmael and esau the sons of abraham and isaac themselves were in scripture ( secundum te o accountant p. . ) both branded for reprobates ? lastly , to the plain perverture of the words of the the text , you quote to your own ends , instead of iesus christ , between whose and the spirits being in men there is no small difference ( for christ may be in us by faith ( i mean we may be in the faith ) when yet he is not in us by his spirit , i mean before the spirit is yet given , witness all the disciples that believed , and were baptized with water , some while before christ gave them the holy spirit , act. . act. . ) instead of christ i say you insert the spirit of god : you also wholly pervert the sence of the apostle in that place cor. . . who speaks it not to infants , nor of them neither , but of persons that could both know and prove , and examine their own selves , of all which infants , were uncapable by your own confession ; he wrote it of them to whom he wrote it , and so indeed , though you are slow of heart to consider it , the who●● gospel was written , viz. de adultis , & adul●orum officiis , of grown person whether parents or children , and their duties , but not for the use of infants in ●●fancie at all . in the next place upon occasion of my denial that it can be made appear that infants have the holy spirit to the making of them subjects of baptism you argue it on thus . disputation . the report of scripture concerning them , and the necessary consequences of the former arguments , do make it more plainly appear to any one that will not deny scripture and reason , then the profession of any particular person , who perhaps may be an hypocrite ( as symon magus ) can make it appear of himself gods testimony being to be preferred before mans . disproof . here is one of the most prodigious pieces of absurditie , and contradiction of your selves , as you speak in other places , that was ever discerned to pass from men that cried out so loud ( as you do ) for libertie to reason logically since the art of logick was found out . in that you here call the consequences of all your former arguments necessary consequences , which is as much as to say such as conclude the thing in hand , i. e. that infants have the holy spirit necessarily , universally , and inf●llibly , for that , and no other ( were you so well skilled in logick as you would seem to be ) is a necessary consequence , which proves the matter concluded certainly so to be yea certo ità esse , nec alitèr se habere posse : a necessary consequence is when there is tam necessarius nexus , & indissolubilis dependentia &c. such infallible dependence between the subject , and the praedicate , that the conclusion must be universally and perpetually true , whereas your conclusion , which is this , viz. that little children have the holy spirit , as it followes not so much as probably nor possibly from all that you have here premised toward the proof on it , witness all the disproof made of your disputation hitherto , so much less doth it follow from them necessarily to be true , for then it must be at least truly denominated de omni , i. e. universally true concerning all little children , that they have the ho-spirit , de omni being the very lowest degree of necessity : but this for shame you cannot say , that all little children of every sort have holy spirit , no nor yet so much as all of that sort of whom you so peculiarly assert it , viz. the little children of believers , among whom , when they are at years , there are as many destitute of the holy spirit as are indued with it and in further evidence hereof that it follows not necessarily from any thing you have said that those little infants you sprinkle have the holy spirit , i appeal from your selves to your very selves , for howbeit you here affirm ( as also p. . ) inch a necessity in the consequences whence you conclude that infants of believers have faith and the holy spirit , yet to the utter confutation of your selves herein , you elsewhere confesse that at the best your proof can be no more then probable viz. p. ▪ where you write concerning the infants of christian parents having faith and the spirit , as if notwithstanding all that was said before to prove the certainty of it , you could not now tell well what to say to it , for as in p. . you acknowledged that all infants have it not , so these are your own words p. . viz. the spirit is not bound to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor barr'd from working it in any of the children of infidels , so that no judgement of science can be passed till the acts themselves be seen and examined for a posteriori onely ( and yet by the way be it known unto you that every necessary consequence demonstrates a priori ) q the discovery of habits it made : that unlesse it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit , what have not , for the working of the spirit is not known to us , he is not bound nor yet bard , there can be no conclusion made . in which words see how plainly you acknowledge that no conclusion can be made of it , that infants of christians have the habit of faith , i. e. it is a thing that doth not necessarily follow , and cannot appear in infancy at all , nor be certainly presumed , whether they have or have it not , till they come to years , and be seen to act , so that then it may be known by your own confession , and yet in this place i am now in hand with you say no more nor lesse , but in effect the clean contrary , as also p. . where you seem to wonder almost , and fault the difficulty in mens understandings that there are at all any doubts in them about their having it , avouching that the scriptures by necessary consequences confirme the thing viz. that they have it , that the report of scripture concerning little children , and the necessary consequences of the former arguments do make it appear , yea plainly , yea more plainly then the profession of any particular person at years can make it appear of himself . o earth , earth , hear the reasonlesse round abouts of these logicians , they tell us in one place , that it is to be concluded by no lesse then necessary consequences , that believers infants ( for of such onely they assert it ) have faith and the holy spirit : by and by ( to go round again ) they tell us that it cannot be certainly presumed what children have it , what have not , that the working of the spirit is not known to us , he is not bound to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor barr'd from working it , in any of the children of infidels , so that there can be no conclusion made : in one place they tell us that no judgement of science , concerning these or those infants having the holy spirit and faith , can be passed in their infancy , till the acts themselves be seen and examined i. e. till they come to years , and shew forth some fruits , and it appear by some acts and professions of it , for a posteriore onely the discovery or habits is made : but elsewhere ( to go round again ) they tell us that it doth more plainly appear concerning believers infants in their infancy , that they have faith and the holy spirit to any one , that will not deny scripture and reason , then the profession of any particular person at years admitted to baptism , can make it appear of himself , as if it could not half so well appear a posteriore when we are at years and capable to profess and act faith , and shew forth the fruits of the spirit , whether we have faith and the spirit yea or no ; as it may do a priori i. e. in infancy , before any act of faith or fruit of the spirit can be discovered , seen or examined . moreover ( to animadvert this present passage of yours yet a little further ) wheras you say here , that the report of scripture concerning little infants , which is gods testimony , and to be preferred before mans , doth more plainly prove it that infants have faith and the holy spirit then any particular mans testimony doth prove it concerning himself , i answer , first by denying that god in scripture gives any such testimony at all concerning little infants litterally taken , that they have faith and the holy spirit . secondly , if that phrase mat. . . viz. these little ones which believe in me could have any such construction as of little infants litterally , yet i deny that he speaks of them any otherwise then by a prosopeiâ as i said before . thirdly , if it were to be proved ( as it never can be ) that he speaks there of infants , and not figuratively neither , but plainly and properly , yet t is most plain that he speaks but indifinitely , not particularly of one infant more then another , or of christians infants more then of infidels , so as that you can thereupon take on you ( as you daily do ) to distinguish which have the spirit which have not , and accordingly to admit these to baptism , and debar those , yea you your selves do ore and ore express it p. . . that what the scripture declares infants to be , it declares them so to be in generall , specially while any particulars of them have not yet barrd themselves by actual sin , or deserv'd to be exempted from what the scripture hath in general declared them to be : so that all this that you have brought thus far hath not the weight of a feather , to warrant your good opinion of one infant above another , and your practise of baptism to this or that particular infant ( suppose a believers ) rather then an unbelievers . it would be no plain but a muddy , totter'd confus'd implicit shufling kind of argumentation for me , if i were to give account why i baptize this or that particular man or woman , and not others to argue thus indifinitly ( as you do all along ) viz. no man may forbid them to be baptized that believe and have the spirit . but the scripture declares that men and women may believe , and have the spirit . ergo men and women must be baptized . if i should ( i say ) go on thus in generals onely not making it appear , that ther 's any faith at all in these individuals whom i baptize , more then in others , i should take him for little better then a fool , who should take me for a wise man in so arguing , yet so and no otherwise do you argue , whilst when we put you to prove that those infants whom you baptize have title to it , in contradistinction to heathens infants , whose right to baptism you deny , you give us your account in these indeterminate terms viz. those that have faith and the holy spirit may be baptized . but the scripture testifies that little children have faith &c. ergo little children may be baptized . i say what a bald way of arguing is this ? wherein you conclude no more concerning the particular infants , whose right to baptism we put you to plead , while you shut out other , then concerning those very infants also whom you so shut out . this is just as silly as if you being put to prove your own particular salvation before iudas's should do it thus viz. such as believe shall be saved ; but men believe . ergo men shall be saved . without making any proof of your own faith in particular , whose salvation you would so prove above his , whereas you should of right argue onward from the major thus viz. we believe , and iudas did not . ergo we shall be saved and not he . and so had you dealt down rightly , and plaid above board in your disputation , sith believers infants in particular is the subject in hand between us , you should have spoken plainly thus , viz. all and only those infants that believe are to be baptized . but all the infants of believing parents , and those infants onely believe . ergo all and onely those infants are to be baptized . but you know of your own selves this would be too broad a discoverie , the minor being so apparently false , that you cannot hide your halting by it from the view of the very vulgar , if you should so express it : for he that hath but half an eie may see , that as there is no more faith to be seen , so the scripture declares no more faith to be in believers infants , than in the infants of unbelievers ; or if you will needs have the minor in such general and indefinite terms , yet at least grant us a fair conclusion concerning those particular infants you dispute aboue , no less than that can amount to so much as ingenuity , and then it must run thus , viz. those that believe and have the holy spirit and so right to the kingdom of heaven are to be baptized . but the scripture doth in general declare little children to be such as believe , have the spirit and right to the kingdome . ergo , the infants of believers , and these infants onely are to be baptized . but then you cannot so well shrowd your shuffling from any observant eie , it being equally absurd to argue to universals from meer particulars , and to some particulars only from universals , or to these individuals from indefinite declarations , and verily take your minor term little children , which you so frequently syllogize by indiscrimination not expressing what little children , or else indefinitely and more restrictively for some only , not naming which , it s equally ridiculous to argue thus , viz. the scripture gives good report of little infants in general . therefore believers infants only have faith and the holy spirit , and thereby right to baptism , and not any other infants ▪ or thus , the scripture speaks well of little infants indefinitely , i. e. of some at least ( though not all , and we know not which ) as having faith , the spirit and right to baptism . therefore undoubtedly these little infants whom we baptize are well spoken of in that kind and must be baptized . as t is to argue thus , the scripture declares that john baptist had the holy spirit . eego all the infants of believing parents must be supposed to have it in infancy and may thereupon be baptized . yet these are but as it were the several streins which you dispute in , which put all together into a bag , and shuffle as much as you will that which comes out first wil be a sensless non sequitur , do what you can . but you offer concerning this & that particular infant , viz. a believers , of whom i denied that if it were brought unto you together with a heathens , the spirit could more appear to you to be in it than in the other , you offer i say to make it appear that that infant should appear to have the holy spirit above the other ; for that was indeed the business i then put you to prove , and this you do as well as those may be said to do , who by mending make their mater worse than t was before , whisest there is not a tittle to be found in your argument , which doth not as fully prove the holy spirit to be in all infants , as in any at all : on this wise it runs . disputation . da that which to doubt of is breach of christian charity doth sufficiently appear . ri but to doubt these little children have the holy ghost is a breach of christian charity i ergo that these little children have the holy ghost , doth sufficiently appear . the minor is proved thus . to doubt that these little children are such as the scripture in generall hath declared them to be , and that they have right to the kingdome of heaven &c. is a breach of christian charity , whose rule is , praesumere unumquenque bonum , nisi constet de malo ; the apostle saying cor. . . . it thinketh no evil , charity believeth all things ; especially since it cannot appear that those have by any actuall sin bard themselves or deserved to be exempted from the general state of litle infants declared in scriptur●s . ergo , to doubt that they have the holy ghost is a breach of christian charity . disproof . besides the falsity of both the premises , there 's no more at all concluded from them concerning any one infant , then might ( if they were true indeed ) be as truly concluded from them concerning all . first o the rottenness and infirmitie of the major ! it is most manifestly fals , for there are many things , which to doub● of may be a breach of christian charity , which yet do not at present sufficiently appear . to doubt that this or that particular infant will hereafter live holily , and imbrace the gospel , may be a breach of christian charity , whose rule is ever to hope the best , till it sees the contrary , and yet that this or that particular infant will live holily and imbrace the gospel when he comes to age , doth not yet so sufficiently appear , but that ( as more plainly as things appear with you in infancie then at age by particular profession ) it may more sufficiently appear when they are grown up , yea till then it appeareth not at all . the minor also is false , for to doubt that this or that infant hath at present the holy spirit is no breach of christian charity at all ; sith ( what hopes soever we may have of them as to the future ) yet at present there is no evidence that they have it , nor yet any promise at all that it shall be given to them in infancy , nor at years neither till they believe and obey the gospel : and as there is no promise of it to them in infancie , so in meer infancy there is no such use of it to them , as t is promised to be of unto believers ; neither doth it either quicken , inlighten , convince , convert , comfort , or any other way officiate as a seal of redemption , and remission of sins to such as have no sins as yet to be remitted . secondly , if both these premises were as true as you suppose them , yet would it follow no more from them , nor from all you say toward the proof of either of them that believers infants have the holy spirit , then it would that unbel●evers infants have it : in the evincing of which i shall only transcribe your syllogism , and proof of the minor , and instead of your term these little children , write little children of infidels , and so leave you , and all the world to judge , whether your own argument doth not as clearly conclude unbelievers infants to have the holy spirit , as the infants of believers , and so consequently that all have it if any at all as well as some . that which to doubt of is a breach of christian charity doth sufficiently appear . but to doubt that little children of infidels have the holy ghost is a breach of christian charity . ergo that little children of infidels have the holy ghost doth sufficiently appear . the minor is thus proved . to doubt that little children of infidels are such as che scripture in generall hath declared them to be , and that they have right to the kingdome of heaven , &c. is a breach of christian charity , whose rule is presumere unumquemque bonum , nisi constet de malo , the apostle saying in cor. . . . it thinketh no evil , charity believeth all things , it hopeth all things ; especially since it cannot appear , that the little children of infidels have by any actual sin bard themselves , or deserved any more then others to be exempted from the general state of little children declared in scripture . ergo to doubt that little children of infidels have the holy ghost , is a breach of christian charity . in which though both propositions be flatly false , yet i call heaven and earth to witness whether all that you bring in proof of the minor do not prove it as much breach of christian charity to doubt that any infants , as t is to doubt that believers infants have the holy spirit , one infant having no more deserved ill by actual sin then another . thus all that ever you have done hitherto is utterly undone , for the argument you began upon , and the basis of your building is , that believers infants ( for their baptism only you plead , denying the baptism of other infants , as well as we ) have the holy spirit , this upon denial of any sufficience in all your former proofs to make it appear , is at last undertaken by you to be made sufficiently appear in this last syllogism ; which if it do not make it as sufficiently appear concerning unbelievers infants ( considering your own matter used to prove the minor ) as concerning the other , then my candle is quite gone out , but if it do then surely the very light that is in you is utter darkness . in the next place , you dispute upon us by way of question and interogation , thus , disputation . . how do those men and women that are baptized at years make it appear to those that baptize them , that they have faith and the holy spirit ? if it be answered by their profession . . whether their profession , since it is possible they may lie , can make it appear infallibly ? if it be answered no. . what judgement then can they that baptize them passe upon them to be the subjects of baptism ( as they call them ) whether any other than that of charity ? if it be answered that of charity . t is replyed , then let them passe the same judgement upon those little infants of whom in general the scripture hath given so good a report , and against whom in particular no exception can be raised , and the controversie between us is at an end . disproof . first whereas you quere how those we baptize make it appear that they have the holy spirit before we baptize them . i answer i know no necessity of making ir appear that persons have the holy spirit before their admission to baptism , for though we find once that god anticipated his promise , and gave the holy spirit before baptism , act. . yet i know not , nor yet do you , any promise there is , whereupon in an ordinary way we can expect it , of receiving the holy spirit of promise till after faith , repentance obedience , turning to god , baptism , and asking of it , prov. . . iohn . . . act. . . chap. . . chap. . . . luke . . ephes. . . secondly , as for the holy spirits appearing infallibly . i answer first it may possibly appear infallibly to be in some , in whom it is , as act. . . . . . by sundry fruits , and manifestations of it , which may warrant us to say god is in them of a truth : mat. . . . . . . cor. . . cor. . . it may i say undoubtedly appear to be in men and women , but cannot and way at all so appear to be in infants , if we may believe your selves , who tell us p , . that infants have not the exercise and fruit of faith , and p. . that instruction of the understanding in matter of faith in some sort must go before any act of faith can be discovered , and that no judgement of science can be past upon infants , till the acts themselves be seen and examined , for a posteriore onely the discovery of habits is made , and that unlesse it could be certainly presumd what children have it , what have not there can be no conclusion made . and howbeit i am not of the seekers mind , that an appearance of the holy spirit in any person before baptism in water doth exempt him from it , but am well assured that it strictly rather ingages him to it , or else peter could not have commanded them in name of the lord to be baptiz'd in water , upon whom the holy spirit fell act. . but must rather have forbid it , as frustraneous , and altogether superfluous ; yet that the spirit should appear at all to be in men , in order to their baptism , much more that it should appear infallibly to be in them , is a matter of no necessity that i know of , sith in the word it s not required that persons be baptized with the holy spirit first in order to their baptism with water , but that they be first baptized in water , in order to their receiving the holy spirit act. . . for the baptism of the spirit as t is promised onely to believers ; so we believing , obeying the gospel , and asking the holy spirit , t is signified to us as one thing that shall be given among the rest , in that very way of water baptism : so that its enough for us ( as to the baptism of persons ) to take cognizance of it that they believe and repent , which things though they cannot do without the spirit performing its common office of striving , drawing , moving , inlightning , convicting of good and evil , sin and righteousness &c. in all which it acts to the whole world , gen. . rom. . . iohn . . act. . . yet they not only may do them without , but must do them before they can by promise expect the spirit , in those special respects , wherein he is promised to believers , and calld that holy spirit of promise . and now because you ask how we know they have faith whom we baptize ? i answer by their profession , which gives though not infallibility ; yet by your leave , for all your preferring the eulogies given in general to all infants above any mans personal profession for himself in this case a far clearer and better grounded judgement of charity concerning them , that they have faith , then that you have concerning infants , which at best is but charity mistaken for cruelty , whilst it takes that to be in infants , and that on pain of their damnation too they dying without it , viz. believing see p. . which infants are utterly uncapable of ; and whilst it takes even that too , without which it holds no infants are saved , to be in but very few infants viz. believers infants onely , and so damns all other dying infants , which are far more innumerable , and as capable of faith , and as little barring themby actual sin from salvation , and as little deserving damnation , as the other , so that whether we or you plead the cause of innocent infants let the world judge . and whereas you suppose that because in charity onely we judge men and women to believe , therefore we passe no other judgement then that of charity onely on them to be the subjects of baptism : herein you grossely mistake our grounds of baptizing , for thought that of charity onely is the judgement whereby we judge them to be believers , yet that is not the onely judgement whereby we judge them to be the subjects of baptism , but as to that we go upon a judgement of certainty and infallibility also , for though it be not infallible to us that every one that professes to believe , doth as truly believe as he professes , yet this is infallible to us concerning him that professes viz. both that he professes , and also that professing to believe with all his heart , so that we in charity may judge him so to do , whether he lie or no , he is by the rule of the word quoad nos a warrantable , undoubted , and ( as no infant is ) infallible subject of baptism , for the word requires us to baptize such , as after our preaching the faith to them , do truly professe to believe whether they believe as truly as they profest or no , for that indeed is not so infallible to us , but it warrants us not to baptize any infants , who can neither believe not professe . moreover sith you say let us pass the same judgement upon little infants as you do , of whom in generall say you the scripture gives so good a report , and against whom in particular no exception can be raised , and so the controversie shall be at an end . i tell you we do passe not the same , but a far surer judgement then that of charity upon infants dying in infancy ; and have an hundred fold more clear , and more tender opinion of them then yourselves , whilst we have from the word well grounded hopes and assurance that no dying infant is damned , but you with over pleading the bare outward priviledges of some , most ignorantly damn dying infants to one . but as to your judgement of charity concerning infants believing , and being thereby inrighted to baptism , or that same judgement of charity which we act toward professors of faith ; you may dream as long as you will on such erroneous enthusiasm , but those that are awake to righteousnesse , and resolved to sin no more by popish superstition , know well enough that infants ( though nere the worse for want on t yet ) cannot believe in christ of whom they are not capable to hear , much less can they professe so to do , and thereby give that good ground , which right charity must have , whereupon to build her faith of this , i. e , to believe that they do believe , and believing are certainly to be baptized , so that we have charity well grounded concerning infants , and such as comparatively to which your tender mercy to millions of them is meer cruelty , and yet the controversie is not ended , nor is likely to come to an end in such a way . give me leave therefore a little to play upon you here with your own weapons , and to call for an answer from you to your own queres , and so it may be in a fair way towards an end in time , whereas then you plead the baptism of believers infants and no others , upon such a sufficient appearance that they have faith and the holy spirit . i ask first how do these make it appear that they have faith and the holy spirit since they cannot do it by profession . secondly , how far forth do they make it appear to you ? infallibly ? or but probably ? your selves say not infallibly , for the spirit is not bound to all the children of christian parents , nor barrd from any of the children of infidels . thirdly , what judgement do you passe upon believers infants to be the subjects of baptism , rather then other infants ? that of charity ? or that of certainty ? that of certainty you disclaim p. . in these words , no judgement of science can be passed , till the acts of faith themselves be seen and examined , and in these also viz. unlesse it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit , what have not , for the working of the spirit is not known to us , he is not bound nor barrd , there can be no conclusion made . that of charity then is the onely judgement you passe on these , and whereby you judge believers infants and no other , to have faith , the spirit and right to baptism , which charity teacheth us praesumere &c. to believe and hope all things , & hope the best concerning all till ye see the worst , especially since litt●e children of believers have not by any actuall sin barrd themselves , or deserved to be exempted from the generall state of little children declared in scriptures . well then to close up all , let me but desire you to passe the same judgement of charity on all little infants , as you do on some , even upon the little ones of unbelievers , infidels , turks and pagans ( whilst infants ) of whom in general , and indiscrimmatim the scripture gives a good report , not commending believers infants above them , and against whom in particular no exception can be raised , more then against the other , saving that one fault ( of theirs ) onely that they were not born of believings parents , which i hope you have so much charity as to pardon . hope , i say as well of the infants of unbelieving parents , that they have faith and the holy spirit , specially since it cannot appear that these have by any actual sin barred themselves , or deserved any more then the other to be exempted from the general state of little infants declared in scripture , and then the controversie between you and me , which is whether little children born of believing parents only , may be lawfully baptized , is like to be at an end , for then certainly you will either agree to it that all infants in the world , even of infidels , turks , and pagans ( these being in the judgement of charity as undeserving damnation as others ) may be and are ( dying in infancy , though this with you is as heinous a thing as to ●ay the divels may be saved p. . ) in as much possibility to be saved , and so at least in as much right as the others to be baptized , or else that no infants at all ( it being not possible to be presumed certainly which have the spirit , and which not , and charity judging a like of all , till it see a difference ) are at all to be baptized , both which being the very truth , i am content for my part to agree with you therein with all my heart . to which dilemma i am well enough assured you can answer nothing in the least measure satisfactory , as the most judicious readers ( if you ministers inquire of them ) will undoubtedly affirm also . and so i proceed to your other arguments . disputation . that opinion which makes the covenant of the gospell worser then that under the law , contrary to the apostle in heb. . . is a wicked and false opinion . but the opinion of the anabaptists , which denieth baptism to little children , whereby a mo●ty of the christian world is cut off at once from being members of the church , maketh the covenant of the gospel worser , then that under the law , ergo that opinion is a wicked and false opinion . disproof . the major here is most undeniably true for what opinion soever doth make the gospel covenant worse then that under the law contrary to heb. . . is indeed both false , and wicked . but the minor wherein you say that the denial of baptism to little infants makes the gospel covenant worse then that under the law , contrary to heb. . . where the gospel is said to be a better covenant then that of the law , in this respect as it is established upon better promises , this is most palpably false ; yea i appeal to every man , who doth not wilfully shut his eies against the truth , to judge between us , whether our opinion or your own rather doth most clearly contradict that scripture of your own alledging heb. . . in order to the true discerning of which , first , mark well what it is that is there asserted concerning the meliority of the gospel covenant above that of law , and you shall find it to be this , viz. that the gospel covenant whereof christ is the mediator is a covenant that promises better things , better injoyments , or a better inheritance then that of the law did , whereupon it there bears the name of a better covenant , then that of which moses was the mediator . secondly , mark whether our denial of infant baptism do at all contradict that ; for what if infants be not baptized , doth that make that the promises of the gospel are worse than the promises of the law ? nay verily who ever is or is not baptized , the promises of the gospel are both in our opinion , and our constant manifestation of it too in this particular , better and as far beyond the promises of the law , as the substance is beyond the shadow , the city ir self beyond the map of it that is on the wall ; for the promises of the gospel are of the whole world rom. . . of a heavenly inheritance , incorruptible canaan , crown , kingdome , pet. . . iam. . . rev. . . of eternal salvation heb. . . and this not to the jewes only , upon obedience to moses voice , but to all men in case of obedience to the voice of christ the mediator of it , in point of faith baptism , and other things which he requites in order thereunto , of those onely which are capable to perform them ; but the promises of the law were but of a spot of the world , of an earthly canaan , inheritance , kingdome &c. to the posterity of one man only viz. abraham and not to all his fleshly posterity neither ( for his posterity by hagar and keturah were excluded , and that covenant established with isaac and his seed only , and that in case of obedience to the voice of moses the mediator of that testament , when god should give out his mind to them by him in that covenant more perfectly then he did in the daies of abraham , and in case of observance of the law , whereof circumcision was a part , though given before , and an ingagement to them to keep the whole , when it should be given , and all this but as a map , and type for a time of the gospel covenant , which was made and established on better promises with a better seed , i. e. not a carnal , but spiritual seed , not such as are of abrahams own much less of any inferiour mens flesh , but such as are of abrahams faith , and do his works , i. e. believers themselves this is our opinion , which if it do not rather confirm then contradict that meliority of the gospel-covenant , and its promises above that of the law , which meliority is spoken of heb. . . ( your very selves being judges of it ) then surely satan hath shut up your eyes from seeing that you see . but now as for your selves , who stand so much in vindication of the gospel covenant , as a better covenant then that under the law , and that in that very respect , in which it is said to be a better covenant heb. . . viz. established upon better promises , i le shew you plainly how you are so far from making it better then the law , as that you make that of the law at least equal to it , for whereas that scripture which you quote saies plainly that the gospel is a better covenant than that of the law ; forasmuch as it stands on better promises , yet that is never the better for you in your cause whose tenet utterly denies , & flatly contradicts that , for you say that the things promised in the word of the law , which were signed , and ( as your phrase is , not ours ) sealed by circumcision , were the very same things that are promised in the word of the gospel , and signed and ( as you say ) sealed in baptism , viz. the kingdome of heaven ; and howbeit this is most manifestly false , for in reality , though you jumble them together into one when it seems to se●ve your turn so to do , in such a confused way as preaches to the world your present ignorance in both the law and the gospel , the law and gospel are two distinct covenants , established on two distinct kinds of promises whereof the one was typical of , and so inferiour to the other , the one an old one , and a first that vanished before the second and new one , gal. . heb. . . - . — . . and though all that was then promised in the law , and signed in circumcision , as well as circumcision it self were types of things under the gospel yet the things then promised upon keeping the law , and immediately signed to abraham and all his fleshly seed by isaac ( save esau and his seed that sleighted it ) in that covenant of circumcision , which god gave him , were no other then that literal canaan , that earthly land of promise flowing with milk and honey , and not the heavenly inheritance , gen. . . &c. for they that were heirs of the other according to the law , are not thereupon heirs of this also according to the gospel rom. . . now howbeit i say that be very false , yet you asserting it that the promise under the law , and under the gospel is the very same , do therein deny the one to be a covenant of better promises then the other : for to say the promise of the law is the very same that the promise of the gospel is ; is to say that the one is as good as the other , and so to contradict that of heb. . . which saies the gospell testament , and the promises thereof are better then the promises under the law. and secondly if you say the meliority that you hold to be in the gospel covenant consists not in the meliority of the promises of it above the other , but in the meliority of the administration of it , the gospel ordinances belonging not to the same only , but to more subjects , then the ordinances of the law , in which respect we denying gospel ordinances to infants , which were admitted to the ordinances under the law , and so cutting of a moity of the christian world from the church , which stood members of it before do streiten the gospel , and make it worse and of less extent the law. i answer first , that the meliority of the gospel covenant spoken of in heb. . . lies in the meliority of the promises of it above the others , which meliority we affirm but you deny , in saying the promises of both covenants are one and the same , therefore it is your selves however , and not we that by your tenets make the gospel covenant at least no better than the law , contrarily to that of the apostle , heb. . . and so your opinions and not ours are false and wicked by your own argument . bvt secondly if it be in very deed to make the gospell covenant worse than the laws ( as you say it is ) to hold infants no capable subjects of gospel ordinances , some of which were capable subjects of the ordinances of the law , i shall first disprove your charge of us toge●her with your proof of it in that particular . secondly prove that if notwithstanding all that i shall say toward the clearing of our selves , we must needs be held guilty of lessening the grace of god under the gospel , in comparison of what it was under the law , because we deny the ordinances thereof to infants , to whom the ordinances of the law were dispensed , then you that judge us , condemn your selves also as being in the same kind guilty of the same , to this purpose le ts see what you bring in proof of your minor , in the last syllogism ; and how punctually it concludes to your present purpose , thus you argue . disputation . vnder the law the seal of the gospel covenant was by gods appointment set to little infants , viz. circumcision , which was the seal of the righteousnesse of faith , which is the gospell covenant , and therefore is called by god an everlasting covenant , and that i my self confesse it to be the seal of the gospell covenant , and that even ishmael onely because born in abrahams house had right to it , and received it . ergo this opinion denying the seal of the gospell covenant , which the defenders acknowledge baptism to be to little infants , makes the covenant of the gospel worser to the spiritual seed of abraham , then it was to the carnall seed under the law. disproof . how often shall i adjure you the next time you write to write no more then truth at least in matter of fact ? if you will needs utter falsehood in matter of doctrine ? do not your selves bear me witness before all the world not above two pages behind that i denyed circumcision to be a seal of the righteousness of faith , to any but abrahams person only , and avouched it to be no such thing to his posterity and yet how quickly have you forgotten your selves so far as to the contradicting of your selves , as well as the truth , to represent it here as if i had confessed it ? and having began to faulter , and falsifie things for your own ends , how easily do you multiply misreport , and run from ore shooes , as the proverb is , to ore boots too , for no less than a pair of pretty ones are here recorded ; for how be it my declared judgement then was , now is and i believe ever will be , for ought you can say to clear the contrary , that circumcision ( though a seal to abraham to honor the greatness of that faith he had , and to notify him to be the father of the faithful , as it is plainly exprest rom. . . ) was not set as a seal in any sense at all to any other , but as a bare sign and token in their flesh to mind them upon sight thereof , immediately of the covenant that then was , remotely as a type ( as every other thing under the law did ) of something in the gospel covenant viz. circumcision of the heart , and that baptism it self is no seal at all , but a bare sign of the gospel covenant , and is not so much as a sign , or any thing else , but a meer nullity to little infants , yet the world is here belied into the belief of it , that i confesse both that circumcision was a seal of the gospel covenant , and that under such a notion as a seal of that covenant ishmael himself had right to it , and received it , for so you expresse it p. . and that baptism is the seal of the gospel covenant , even to little infants themselves as well as others . i do therefore in answer to this last piece of yours , and in order to your better understanding of me for the future , and of the truth too , as it is in jesus , at present professe against two things herein , first your forgeries and misrepresentations of my opinion to the world , which was not so darkly declared at that time as that you must needs mistake it . secondly , against the falsities and mistakes that are in your own opinion in this point viz. in stiling both circumcision , as dispensd to abrahams fleshly posterity and baptism also as dispensed not to others onely , but even to infants by the name of seals of the covenant of grace . as for circumcision that it was not so , though i might adde much more to what hath been before spoken in proof hereof in my animadversion of your account , yet i le save my self that labor , and refer you for fuller understanding , what circumcision was , and was not , to a certain book , that is extant of one mr. iackson , once of bidenden in kent , stiled . arguments , proving circumcision to be no seal of the covenant of grace , whereunto is annexed the unlawfulnesse of infant baptism upon that ground , of which book i must needs give testimony thus far to the world , that it being brought to me , whilst it was but a manuscript , and my self a presbyter of your high places , in some confidence that i could answer it , how easily i might have shufled it off , had i set my self so to do i will not say , but i could not answer it solidly , nor salva consciencia , and therefore i let it alone for a time , till considering further of it , and of other things i was stirrd up to the study of by it , i was at last converted to the truth , whereupon as the best answer i was capable to give , i signed it in such wise ( as i find luther once signed another book in the like case ) viz. memorandum that taking this book in hand at first to confute it , i was at last convinced by it . which . proofs of circumcision to be no seal of the covenant of grace , if they be weak , and invalid , such a multitude as you are have time enough among you to disprove them , but if you yield to them , be silent and say nothing . as for baptism i confesse it to be truly and properly a sign , and that of the covenant of grace , remission of sins by christ his death and resurrection , which are both not onely signified , but also lively represented , and resembled in the true dispensation of it to believers , yet that it is so much as a sign at all to infants in infancy , or when grown to years either ( if dispensed in infancy ) i absolutely deny , and affirm that the very nature , use and office of it ( as a sign to its subject ) is totally destroyed by such immature administration : for a sign ( specially proprie dictum ) that is properly , and not improperly so called in reference to that person , whose sign it is , is some outward thing appearing to the senses , through which some other thing , some inward thing is at the same time apprehended by the understanding , this is the most true and proper difinition that your divines give of a sign in general , but in special of these signes , viz. baptism , and the supper , so pareus and kekermaen both do define a sign out of austin r and so do you all define these signs viz. in oculis incurrentia signa , but such a thing baptism cannot be to infants in their infancy , nor after their infancy neither , if dispensed while they are infants , the sign and thing signified being not possible in that way to be ever apprehended both together as they must be viz. the sign by the senses , the thing signified by the understanding , and that at the same time when the sign appears to the senses , or else the sign is a meer nullity , and of no use and benefit as a sign at all , for though infants may have the sense of the thing so as to see and feel if they were dipt in infancy , yet have they then no understanding of its meaning , and though when they come to years they are capable to gather the meaning of things , or from an appearing sign to conceive what is signified thereby , yet then the sign it self is fled out of sight , and so far out of the reach of their remembrance , that as ther 's nothing now presented , so neither ever was there any thing ( for ought they can conjecture any more then by meer human hearsay ) objected to their senses at all : when the jewes required a sign of christ , they required something that might be seen , what sign shewest thou that we may see and believe ? a sign then must be some memorandum , some object obvious to the senses , of that person to whom t is a sign properly taken , either continually , or at sometime or other , even then which the understanding drinks in the thing signified , else if there neither is , nor ever was any such sight or sense of the sign , as from the then , or now present appearance of it , while the understanding of the party , whose sign it is , is lively acted on the thing , then to that person the sign ( unlesse improperly , and improper signes the sacraments are not ) can possibly be no sign at all , this pareus teacheth us to the life , p. . . where de●ining baptism and the supper to be signa in oculos incurrentia , hoc est visibilia , signs that are , or once were to be seen by him whose signes they are , even at that time while he is to learn something by them , he further backs it , as i have set down in his own words in the margent , and for the use of the unlearned englished thus viz. for they ought to be such that they may signifie things invisible , for if they ought to be helps to our faith , they must be perceived by the external sense , whereby the internal sense is moved , for what thouseest not is no sign to thee , he that makes an invisible signimplies a contradiction , and makes the sign not a sign at all ; they are invisible things , not signes , otherwise also the signes could not so much as signifie the things , much lesse confirm them , because an uncertain thing would be confirmed by a thing as uncertain as it self hence the antients define a sacrament thus , a sacrament is a visible sign of some invisible grace . so then we see that according to your selves a sign is no sign at all to him , that is never seen all by him , who is to observe it , and that too at sometim● or other after he comes to observe what is meant by it , whereupon i testifie that what was done to us in infancy had it been the true sign of christs own institution viz. baptism as t was rather a sign of meer mans institution viz. the sign rantism , and the sign of the crosse , neither was nor is , nor ever will be any sign at all to you or me , if at any time it be a sign to vs it must be either while we are infants , or when grown to years , but not while infants , for then we apprehend not the thing signed , nor when at years , for then we apprehend not the sign . how mighty your memories , and how exquisite your apprehensive powers are to bring these two , i mean the sign and thing signified together in your thoughts i know not , but i plainly acknowledge ( notwithstanding dr channels councel to the auditory at the dispute at petworth ian. . to remember , and call to mind what was signified to them in their infant baptism ) that as in infancy i perceived not to what purpose i was signed , so now ( save what i have by hearsay ) i perceive not , nor ever did of my self to my best remembrance that i was then so signed at all . as for that true baptism , which i have since submitted to some or years ago , as it then preached ( so far as a sign may be said to preach ) most precious things to my understanding , so it lively appeared to my senses , and left such impression upon them and such an idea thereof in my mind , that me thinks i both see and remember it still , and so shall i hope have good cause to do whilest i live . i conclude then that to signifie things to infants by baptism in infancy is a meer blank , and utter nullity , a silly cypher , that stands for nothing and is of no use to them at all . yea as it would be thought no better then meer mockery , or witless wisdom , for any priest to stand talking , and making signs over one a sleep , while he is understandingly sensible of nothing , and then after he is awake , and as little a ware of any thing as before , begin to make the application , and will him to divine both what was done to him , by whom , and why , and to take cognizance and clearer evidence of such , and such things , by the same token that they were told him , and signified to him by what was done while he was asleep , by certain signs , which he never saw yet , nor never shall : so is it to me to baptize meer infants : or as it were no better than flat folly for any father ( in a serious and not lusory way ) to shew the form of the city ierusalem to his infant 〈◊〉 infancy by the figure , and draught of it in a map , saying look here child , this stands for the temple , this signifies , and sets forth the manner of mount sion , and and all this is shewed thee now , that thou maiest remember it another time , that ierusalem is thus and thus scituated , and then when he comes to age ( without any more resemblance of it to him in the map ) to indoctrinate him in what was done in his i●fancy , and bid him reflect back , and call to mind what was shewn him in that map , in which it was manifested to him what manner of city ierusalem was , and other such like ridiculous stuff and prate of the things so long since done , that they are now flown both out of sight and mind ; even such and no better is it , yea such piteous poor , and meer painted piety is it , for persons , whether priests or parents to stand prating to and ore poor ignorant infants , and signing them at a font or bason , whilest ( if they be not a sleep , as my own silly experience teaches me they have been many a time , while i have been sprinkling them in the midwives , or the mothers armes yet ) they are at best no better then asleep , because as heedless of what 's done , saying to them very seriously by name , as if they would have them mind what is said , thomas — anne — &c. i baptize thee in the name of the father , &c. in token of remission of sins , and then to sign them with the sign of the cross , in token to them still that hereafter ( when it is impossible ) they must by what is now so clearly manifested to their senses , understand , and remember that they must not be ashamed to confess the faith of christ crucified &c. and then when they are grown up , to set them to school to the font again , and wish them to learn by what was once done to them there , that this and that is signified , saying , you must understand that christ was crucified , dead and raised for the remission of your sins , and that you are now to leave your sins , to dy to them , live a holy life , take up your cross and follow him , and all these things i now inform you in by word of mouth , you must call to mind how they were most plainly manifested to you , and lively evidenced to your very external senses , and thereby to your internal senses in your baptism , which is a visible sign to you , and a most sensible demonstration therof , a most lively preaching and resembling of them before your eies ; these things you must remember by the same token , that you had once such a most notable , remarkable , memorable matter done unto you ( so long since that you cannot possibly observe , perceive , discover , remember , that ever it was done at all , but as we tell you ) babist . this reflects with no small disparagement on the wisdome of god in appointing the sign circumcision to be set to infants even in their infancy . baptist. no such matter ; for god did not appoint it to be set to infants for any such end , or use as to be a sign of any thing to infants themselues in their infancy , but when at age . babist . nor do we set baptism to infants for any such end as to signifie any thing to them in their infancy , but when they come to years . baptist. circumcision being a permanent mark in the flesh remained gen. . . and though set in infancie , yet was a sign visible to the persons to whom it was set , and to be seen by them as long as they lived , but to baptism being a transient thing , which vanishes soon after the dispensation , without making or leaving any mark or impression upon the body , whereby any one that notes it not while dispensed to him , can possibly be capable to note it another time it is gone and lost , and can be no sign to him any more for ever . a permanent sign may be set at any time without prejudice to their use of it as a sign , to whom it is set , but the use of a transient sign must be made when it is set , and it must be set at such times when its subject is capable to catch the meaning of it whilest it passes before the sences , and upon occasion to recollect an idea of what was done , or else it perishes from being a sign to those persons from thenceforth even for ever . babist . then circumcision might have been as well forborn till the persons were of years , the use being not made till then , yet god who doth nothing in vain , and out of season , did for all that enjoin it long before , why therefore may not baptism by the like reason . baptist. besides that baptism is transient and that permanent , which is enough to satisfie in this particular , there was much other use and end for which circumcision was rightly dispensed to the infants of the jews , for which there 's not the like reason in baptism , as namely to distinguish and sign them out to be what they were , viz. heirs of the kingdome by birth . babist . that is the very end on which we baptize infants and no other , viz. to sign and distinguish the seed of believers from the seed of unbelievers , and sign them out to be what they are by birth , and what when they come to years they learne that they were made in baptism , viz. heires of the kingdome of heaven . baptist. when you have the same evidence of believers seed in infancy ( that the jewes had of theirs , viz. that they are heirs of the kingdom , then i will allow you to do as they did , viz. to sign and distinguish them as such : but of the one of these you have evidence in nonage , not so of the other : the kingdome that the jews by very nature were heirs of according to the promise was that of the earthly canaan , of which ( and that as a type ) they were apparent heirs by no other then very natural birth , and that so soon as ere they were born , and therfore full well within a while might they be signed . but that which you take upon you so timely to sign persons as heirs to in baptism , is the antitype or heavenly canaan , which no creature is an apparent heir to according to the gospel promise , upon meer natural birth of any parents , whether jew or gentile , till he appear to us ( unless he dy before he hath deserved exemption by actual transgression , and then charity teaches us , to hope as well of all as of one ) to be born by faith in christ , which birth ( if any infants were capable of it ( as to us none are yet ) because we cannot presume which have it , and which not , the workings of the spirit being so unknown to us , that there can be no conclusion made , we cannot by dispensation give right distinction : but as in the type they sign'd them well nigh as soon as they were born with that natural birth of abraham , isaac and iacob after the flesh , upon which alone they were heirs by promise of that earthly canaan , so we sign them so soon as they appear to be born with that birth of christ by faith , by which they are heirs of the true canaan , and that 's all the baptism of new born babes can possibly be found any where in the word , this birth if it could be in any infant at all , at least cannot appear to be in one living infant above another , for either they dy before actual transgression hath barr'd them , and then though our hopes are the same of them all , yet are they past signing by baptism , or else they live and are seen to believe , or not believe , and so as they do , or not do they must without distinction , or respect to naturall descent , be signed or not signed alike . baptism therefore though a sign in its nature use and office to believing men and women ; yet is never so much as a sign to that person to whom it s dispensed in infancy . but as for your signing it with the name of a seal , i should wonder much more at your ignorance , had not such a wonderful thing as ignorance been threatned to those wisemen , that teach gods fear after mens precepts isay . in that you make both your sacraments to be seals , for so runs your ordinary difinition concerning them viz. in oculis , incurrentia signa , et sigilla , considering how clear the scripture is against you , for verily though you receive that denomination of a seal , together with all your vain conversion and worship , by tradition from your fathers , yet you never learn'd it from our fathers in the word , wherein shew me ( if you can ) from the beginning to the end ( save in rom. . . where in anosense sense viz. not to strengthen a weak faith , but to honor great faith circumcision was set ( as gods broad seal ) to confirm abraham in his fatherhood ) any one of the four which you call gods seals viz. either circumcision , or the passeover , baptism or the supper is call'd a seal by god himself . babist . the formal term of a sign is no more to be found in scripture to be given either to baptism or the supper , then the term of a seal , yet you grant it to be properly called a sign , and so why may it not be called a seal , though it be not so called in scripture ? baptist. though the expresse denomination of a sign be not given in scripture to either baptism or supper , yet no lesse is sounded forth in sense and signification , but the other term of seal ( as to these things ) is not consonant to the rule of faith , for verily as no other is exprest , so no more then one seal of the gospel covenant is so much as implied or hinted at in holy writ , and that one seal is no other then the holy spirit by which those that believe , are said to be sealed eph. . . eph. . . and howbeit god preacheth the gospel to us outwardly by words , oaths , signes , and visible resemblances viz. baptism and the supper , and this in the ministration of men , who may minister to us all these , and set them close to our ears , and to our eyes , yet when he preaches it to us inwardly , so fully ; and firmly as by seal , he preaches it himself alone , and though by a baptism , yet a better baptism then that of water , that is the holy spirit , which ( though the sign may be set , first , to profest believers that are not so indeed , secondly , and this very visibly and openly to the view of others , thirdly by men like our selves ) yet first is never set to any but believers in truth , secondly , and that secretly and indiscernably to any but themselves that are seald , thirdly , by none but god himself , who onely sets that baptism close to the conscience within , which baptism no man under heaven can administer : what we set i. e. the sign may very easily be to a blank , our ministration being liable to mistake , but what christ sets i. e. the seal that makes us most sure from himself , that cannot possibly be misplaced , for where and whensoever the spirit of god within is sent to bear witnesse , and cry abba , i. e. father , there and then god is a father indeed : your own selves say that where the seal is , that soul is sure at that time , a real heir , and from that time forth say you also for ever , and so say i , if that soul continue for ever , cleaving to the lord , not quenching , resisting , or so grieving that holy spirit , as to cause it to depart for ever ( for if so ther 's another tale told you from several scriptures , chron. . . heb. . . . heb. . ) but if it be so as you say , that gods seal seals up none but such as are both true heirs by faith at present , and must necessarily abide so for ever , then first here 's an argument ( ad hominem ) how ever , i. e. an evidence to you out of your own mouthes , that your baptism is none of gods seal , s●th it is set by you not onely to s that after it fall from him , but indeed to s that never knew him their father , nor never will. i again therefore once more for all ( that i may not trouble my self with them , when i meet them in other places ) protest against these your expressions of circumcision and baptism by the name of seals , gods seales of the gospel covenant &c. first as none of mine , wheresoever you are found fathering them on me , as p. . . . secondly as none of gods expressions , though ( i know not how many times ore viz. p. . . . . . . ) you aver the ordinances to be gods seals , and father that very phrase on god himself , who as he useth not such a phrase , when he speaks of those foolish things ( as the world counts them cor. . ) which he chuses as his outward witnesses , shews , signs and love tokens from himself to us , so he useth no such tools indeed as these instrumental signes are , when he ministreth himself , for these he appoints men to minister in ; these are the instruments of the foolish sheapherds zach. . . even the outward instruments which god hath chosen for the under sheapheards to act by , he uses none of these i say as his own seal and inward witnesse , for that 's no lesse then the holy spirit , which whattypes , shews and signes of the gospel covenant soever there have bin outwardly both before and since the gospel begun , hath bin , is and ever shall be the onely earnest that god hath given , the only witnesse that him self hath us'd , the onely seal that he hath set in any age , whether before the law , or under the law , or under the gospel , psal. . . . eph. . . . . cor. . . rom. . . . so having removed the rubbish of rude expression , with which your last argument was clouded , and not a little over loaded ( as you delivered it ) i come now to consider it nakedly as it lies substantially enough compriz'd in these expressions viz. vnder the law circumcision was by gods appointment dispensed to little infants , ergo under the gospel baptism must be to infants also , or else the gospel covenant is worse to the spiritual seed of abraham now , then it was to his carnall seed under the law . this is in short the plain sense and ordinary way of urging this argument . by way of answer to which let me be so bold first as to ask you this one question viz. why you stand so st●fly to have baptism dispens'd so strictly after the manner of circumcision , and yet stray and vary your very selves from the fashion of that administration in a manner as much as any men in the world ? for verily though the way of circumcision be that you stickle for , yet you stragle from it , and as to the very subject it self , vary from it as much as in any thing else ; if that be rhe rule after which men must baptize ( as you plead ) why then do ye not baptize ( for so they circumcised ) first onely males , and no females ? secondly , all male servants upon the masters single faith , as well as male children on the fathers ? thirdly , on the eighth day onely , and neither sooner nor later , nor one day before it nor behind it ? fourthly , by the hands of parents , fathers , mrs. mothers , as well as by the hands of the pries●s onely ? fifthly , any where viz : at home or abroad , in inns or other places , as occasion is , but onely or for the most part in your great stone houses ? for this is both the liberty and the bondage of your late directory , that baptism must be dispens'd by a minister onely , not in any case by a private person , much lesse by a mother , or any woman . secondly , in the places of publique worship onely , not in private places or privately . thirdly , on any day , not specifying ●he eighth , so it be not unnecessarily delayed . fourthly , to any child whether male or female for ought you expresse to the contrary , if so be the parent be a believer . fifthly , to no man servant so far as i find on the masters belief , though a christian may chance to hire into his house an indian or infidel : when as its most notoriously known that thus it was then viz. that not the publique priests onely in the publique places , but masters might and must circumcise all their male servants , fathers or mothers their male infants , on the eighth day onely , and that either at home ( as abraham in his house gen. . ) or any where else ( as zipporah at an inn exod. . . . . ) o the prodigious proling that you priests make from your own pattern ! how crookedly close do you keep to your own coppy ? there are about some seven several modifications of actions , in respect of which one may be said to differ from , or be like another , which for memories sake are coucht altogether in this verse of interrogatories . quis ? quid ? ubi ? qualis ? quando ? quibus auxiliis ? cu● ? in all which if inquisition be made , how far forth your baptism and circumcision do agree or differ , though you contend or rather pretend them to be like one another in each , yet we shall find a deep disparity between them in no lesse then all . first , if we ask ( as de subjecto ) this question quis ? who is the true subject of circumcision , who of your baptism , yea even your own so circumcision-like baptism ( much more that baptism which is rightly dispensed ) how far is the one divers from the other ? though this is one of the main things wherein you profess they must be alike , for that ( as i shew'd before ) did belong to males onely , this you dispense to females also ; that to the natural infants of the jews though the parents were known to be unbelievers ( for ioshua circumcised the seed of all those murmurers that were cut off for unbelief ) this ( as to no natural infants at all by right , no not to the jews infants ) so by your own confession , not to any infants whose parents are unbelievers , whereby you may see that as the law is changed , so there is a plain change also in the subjects of these two ordinances circumcision and baptism not onely as we , but as you your selves contend to have baptism dispensed , for as onely so all the male children of the jews both might and must be circumcised though their parents were never such wicked unbelievers , but even your selves say the jews seed are all cut off from baptism and the gospel church , because their parents are unbelievers ; both all the jews and their males might be circumcised though none of them believed , while that covenant of circumcision stood , meerly as they were of the stock of believing abraham , but might not be baptized when the gospel covenant began in iohns baptism upon that account , unlesse they now believed in their own persons though they were of the stock of abraham still as much as ever , nor may to this day in your own opinions . secondly , if ( as to the nature , matter and essential form or being of the rites themselves ) we ask the question quid ? what circumcision was , and what your baptism ? how far do they differ ? the one being a cutting off the foreskin of the flesh , the other a wetting of the foreskin of the face onely with a few drops of water , no more iike it then chalke's like cheese . thirdly if , as to the place where , we ask the question ubi ? where circumcision was dispensed , and where your selves say baptism ought to be ? how greatly doth your manner of baptism differ from it ? and how much more then ours ? for circumcision might be dispensed any where but in the temple , where i find not they were to be brought at all till circumcised , as christ himself luke . , . but your rantism no where else by appointment but in your temples ; herein i say our baptism squares more with it than yours , who pretend so much to baptize after the manner of it , for all places are to us alike , where there is conveniency of water enough to baptize in , and therefore we must except the font and bason . fourthly , if , as to the quality , special properties , uses , ends and offices of these two dispensations , the question be asked in quale quid ? what were the special properties , purposes , uses , ends , and offices of these two several administrations ? what things persons were specially obliged to by them ? what was specially signified to persons in them ? and such like how little do these look each like the other ? for circumcision tied men to the observation of a certain carnal , cumbersome , costly service , law , priest-hood , in order to their inheriting the earthly canaan , which all are now clean changed and confiscate , but baptism , as dispensed by us according to the word , binds to the observation of another law , and the voice of another lawgiver , high priest , and prophet christ iesus , whom moses spake of , and god hath now raised up accordingly , and this in order to a future enjoiment of a heavenly inheritance typed out by the other ; and as for your rantism it ties to neither this nor that , but to a certain service , and law of ordinances , and gospel , and church posture , and priesthood of mans own making , which one knows not well what to make of , nor what part of speech to call it but a participle , for it takes part of the law and part of the gospel , and is neither perfectly , but patcht up out of both by the politick power of the priesthood , so as it may make most for the peoples painted p●etie , and their own pay together , in order to their labor for their pains mat. . . again , circumcision pointed as a type indeed at the circumcision of the heart but as a sign so it signified a promise of outward felicity in canaan , and that christ should come of abraham after the flesh , &c. true baptism signifies the death , burial , and resurrection of christ , and remission of sins by his being crucified , and such things as were no wayes resembled by the other , your rantism just nothing . fiftly , if as to the time of those two services , the question be askt quando ? when circumcision , and when your baptism are by right to be dispensed ? how miserably do you your selves misse of hitting right with it here too ? though it be a main matter you intimate to us your imitation of circumcision in , circumcision being punctually to be performed on the eighth day , true baptism not till the day wherein persons appear to believe withall their heart , and so not in any infancy at all but the infancy of our faith , and even your rantism , though in infancy , as circumcision was , yet on what day you please besides the th , sometimes after a fourt'night , or a moneth , and sometimes at the half year or years end . sixthly , if , as to the administrator , it be ask quibus auxiliis ? by whose hands these ordinances are to be administred ? how different are they ? circumcision being dispensed by the master , father , or mother , but as for baptism ( as you dispense it at least ) none but men in holy orders are to administer it , in which you go not only besides the gospel which records ananias , and philip dispensing baptism , who were but gifted disciples , and neither of them in any orders to the ministery , save that philip was in office as a deacon to look to the poor , by vertue of which deaconship if you presbyters judge ( as the bishops did before you ) that philip baptized , and not rather by his discipleship , i deem you will dote at last as much as they ; but also besides the law you live by . seventhly , if ( as to the account and warrant ) it be demanded cur ? why they circumcised infants , and why you baptize them ? how far do you fall short of the jewes in this also ? for they had express precept , and institution to circumcise infants over and over again repeated in moses testament , besides the president of abrahams own family the self same day wherein the command was given to circumcise all the males at eight daies old , whereas if that which we call the new testament , be indeed the register of christs will there is , as is confest by the most ingenuous of your coat , witness mr. hunton at a publike dispute at warbleton in sussex , neither one-plain precept , nor so much as one president of such a matter as baptizing infants : god never appointed such a thing , neither , to speak in that figure in which god speaks of himself ier. . . came it at all into his mind . so like are circumcision , your rule for baptism , and your baptism which you profess to act in by that rule of circumcision , that to say the truth your run out from your rule in every line you write after it , so that i much wonder that you above all men should argue baptism comes in the room of circumcision , so that they are both as one , and the one must be ordered after the example of the other , who in your baptism come no nearer circumcision then so . for verily they meet one another very little nearer then in that general denomination of a sign or token of a covenant , in which the rainbow may be said to be like them both . that two things should be one thing , for so with you your rantism and circumcision are , and yet be adequate well-nigh in nothing is riddle me what 's this with a witness . and by all this we may see how forcible your argument is that is drawn from the analogy of baptism with circumcision , which argument your dr. featly saies may be truly called , in regard of the anabaptists , pons asinorum , a bridge which these asses could never pass over , for to this day they could never , nor , quoth he , hereafter will be ever able to yield a reason , why the children of the faithful under the gospel are not as capable of baptism , as they under the law of circumcision p. . but by your leave , through whom that doctor being dead yet speaketh , the dialogy and discrepation that is between , not only your rantism , as is above mentioned , but also the true baptism and circumcision , is such a reason to the contrary , as all the classes of clergy men combind together in one synodicall convention , will never be able clearly to refute as long as they breath . as therefore to the argument of yours which i am now in hand with , i come now directly to denie the consequence thereof , for it follows not in any wise that because circumcision was by gods appointment dispensed to little infants therefore baptism must be so now , and that not only for those manie reasons above specified , but even for this also , because god did appoint that circumcision should be dispensed to infants under the law ; but did never appoint anie such thing as that baptism should be dispensed to infants under the gospel , nor is there the least tittle in all the testament of christ tending to the manifestation of one crumb of commission for that matter . babist . what you jest is not mat. . . commission plain enough to baptism infants , where all nations are bid to be discipled and baptized ? baptist. that verie scripture which is commonly conceived by you , and consequently urged as christs commission to baptize infants , so plainly comm●ssionates the very contrarie , that if some self interest or other had not besotted you besides the true sence of the spirit in that place , you could not be so abominably absurd as to argue infants baptism from it as you do , for to say nothing here , as anon happily i shall , of the contradictorie doings that is among your prime pen-men and patrons of infant-sprinkling in their verdicts about this place , some ventring to draw it in to the vindicating of that foppery , some , seeing they cannot thus maintain it , willing enough to let it ly dead , supposing themselves pretty well apaied from this place , if they can but barely evade the receiving of bangs from it ; and therefore will not be too busie with it themselves , but are content to assert no more then this from it , that it is no prohibition of infants baptism . of this sort is dr. holmes , who p . of his animadversions , disclaimes it to be christs commission to the apostles , and dr featley , who , howbeit he is so bold as to mention it as christs command for baptizing of infants , and to argue from it as such p. . yet in answer to mr cornwell , asserting infant baptism to be against christs commission mat. . . mark . , . professes , that there is no mention at all of infants in either of those texts , much less a prohibition to baptize them p. . among those that assault us from this place dr featley and mr marshall are the chrieftanes and this is the common way of argumentation from it , viz. all nations are to be baptized . but children are of the nations . e●go , &c. to this purpose your approved dr featley argues , but as falsly as a man can likely do : whose syllogism is this p. . viz. that which extends to all nations belongs to children as well as men , for childern are a great part if not the half of all nations . but christs command of baptizing extends to all nations , mat. . . mark . . . ergo christs command of baptizing belongeth to children and they ought to be baptized as well as men . on this wise also mr marshall reasons in his answer to mr. tombes p. . by way of repetition of what he more largely delivered in his sermon , viz. in every nation the children make a great part of that nation , and they are alwaies included under every administration , whether promises , or threatnings , priviledges , or burdens , mercies , or judgements , unless they be excepted . much after the same sort also doth mr. blake express himself , p. . of his birth priviledge concerning mat. . . viz. the words there comprize infants , they are no more excluded then men at years , serving to make up a nation as well as parents , the infants of any nation make a part of the nation . but who would think such goodly geer as this should manifest it self to the whole world , as a fruit of the most serious meditations of men so eminently polemical as they by the clergy are esteemed to be in their several tracts in this point , and that it should pass without the least item of correction for it , from any one of their brethren , who rather seem all to consent to , then contradict them ? however i shall make as serious examen of it as i can . first , then is it so sirs , that what ever administration extends to all nations belongs to infants therein , as well as men , so that they are no more excluded , from it , then men at years ? how is it then that preaching the gospel , and prayer with laying on of hands for confirmation , for the spirit , which d● holmes dotes was dispensed to these infants that were brought to christ , and therfore much more baptism in infancy , and as a proof thereo● brings testimony that it was never used in the primitive times to be dispensed till past infancy ▪ how is it ( i say ) that these , and also fellowship in the supper are by your very selves denyed to belong to infants in infancy ? what is the reason that you exclude infants here ? are not these priviledges belonging to men , why then ( if yours and mr marshalls assertion be true ) not to infants as well as men ? are they not mercies , administrations , merciful administrations of god , extended to all nations ? yea is not preaching an administration to every creature that extends not to infants ? and yet ( saving mr marshals cunning insertion of this clause ( unlesse they be excepted ) whereby to salve his proposition , from default of falsity , though thereby he renders it plainly uslesse to his purpose ) are infants any where by name excepted from any one of these administrations , any more then they are from baptism it self ? yea is it not an administration of god extending to all nations that persons should work , or else not eat , in which infants are not included , for then must they starve , and yet no where at all excepted ? yea he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , he that believeth not shall be damned ; christ is the author of eternall salvation to all them that obey him ; christ shall come in flaming fire , taking vengeance on all them that know not god , and obey not the gospell ; he that confesseth me before men , him will i confesse before my father which is in heaven ; he that denieth me shall be denied ; whosoever is ashamed of me and of my words of him will i be ashamed ; he that denieth not himself , and taketh not up his crosse dayly and followeth me ; and hateth not his father and mother , and his own life , and all that he hath , cannot be my disciple ; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he saith unto you , and whosoever heareth not his voice shall be cut off from among his people : if any man love not the lord iesus christ , let him be anathema maranatha , repent and be baptized , and an hundred such like , are not these gods gospel-administrations of duties , promises , threatnings , priviledges , burdens , mercies , judgements extended to all nations , from which infants are not excepted ? and yet do these include and comprize infants as much as men at years ? or are infants excluded by expresse exception from any of these , any more then from that one amongst the rest viz. the duty and ordinance of baptism ? how then dare you aver so peremptorily , so universally that every administration that extendeth to all nations , belongeth to infants as well as men ? yea ( that i may shame and silence you in this out of your own sayings ) some of you , namely mr. marshal perceiving that if you grant that infants did eat the passeover it will follow from that to their eating the supper , as well as from their circumcision of old to the baptism of them now , do assert that infants did not eat the passeover , yet was not the passeover an administration to the nation of israel , from which infants were never excepted ? and if so , how then can your other sayings be true , that every administration that extendeth to the nations , belongs to infants as well as to persons at years , unlesse they be somewhere excepted ? babist . we mean not of a formall exception , but a vertuall exception , an exception in effect at least infants must have , or else be supposed as included under every administration that is given to the nations , and thus infants are excepted from all those last mentioned precepts , promises , threats &c. forasmuch as it is most notoriously known they are not capable to do the things upon the performance , or non-performance of which those mercies and iudgements are promised and threatned , for they cannot hear christs voice , nor know , nor love , nor obey him , nor deny themselves , nor hate their lives , nor confesse him , nor deny him , and whereas t is said that if any will not work let him not eat , infants must necessarily be understood to be excepted there , though not by name , because they cannot work , and so ( unlesse excepted ) must perish by gods appointment for want of food ; so concerning eating at the supper , infants are excepted , not expressely , yet implicitly , and in effect in those words , let a man examine himself , and so let him eat , because there 's that required in order to eating there viz. self examination , discerning the lords body and blood which infants cannot do . baptist. t is very true , they are excepted from all these as you say implicitly , and in effect , though not expressely , but then ( let it be considered ) is there not as fair , and as clear an exception of them from baptism , as from any of these , or in particular as from that service of the supper ? in as much as theres that required in order to baptisme which infants can no more do , then they can do what 's required to the supper ? viz. to believe with all the heart , act. . . and to be discipled i , e , to be taught , and to learn the gospel mat. . . if any should ask this question , what hinders why i may not eat the supper ? you would answer thus , if thou examinest thy self thou maiest eat of that bread , and drink of that cup : so when the eunuch enquired of philip , what hinders why i may not be baptized ? he answers him in the very same viz. if thou believest with all thy heart thou maiest : for whoever shall say these answers viz. let a man examine himself , and so he may eat , let a man believe with all his heart , so he may be baptized , or if thou examinest thy self thou mayest eat , or if thou believest with all thy heart thou maiest be baptized , are not the self same in sense and signifification , shall never go for a wise man more with me , and whoever shall say that the phrase of philip to the eunuchs question , what hinders why i may not ? viz. if thou believest with all thy heart thou mayest be baitized , is as not exceptive of infants from baptism , as that phrase of paul , let a man examine himself , and so let him eat , is exceptive of infants from the supper , can seem no other to me then one , whose reason is basely captivated to some carnal interest or other , yea the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. . . doth ful as much ( if not more ) imply an unlawfulnesse of their admission to baptism , that believe not with all the heart as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. . . doth imply an unlawfulnesse of their admission to the supper , who do not first examine themselves , what ever exception therefore ye can find in the word of infants from the supper , the self same will i find of infants from baptism , and what ever ground of admission to baptism you shall find there for them , the same will i bring for their admission to the supper . babist . those places where it s said if thou believest thou mayest , he that believeth and is baptized , repent and be baptized , go teach and baptize , imply onely an unlawfulness of baptizing persons at years without instruction , belief , and repentance , and are phrases that relate to such onely , and not to infants , who may notwithstanding any thing to the contrary there exhibited , be baptized without any of these . baptist. so you use to say still indeed of these scriptures , that they speak of persons at age and not in non-age , and so say i too , but i wonder then where are the scriptures that speak of infants baptism ? if all the places of scripture that speak of baptism at all , speak onely of the baptism of adult ones and so you are fain to confesse they do when we come to examine them one after another , yea i remember that at two publique disputes , when we have put you to assign what scripture infant baptism is commanded in mat. . . hath bin nominated as your warrant , out of which when it hath been plainly proved that christ commands no more in that place to be baptized , then such whom he commands also first to be instructed , reply hath been made to this purpose viz. that christ there requires that such as are capable of instruction should be instructed first , but that hinders not why infants may not be baptized before instruction ) but if so i say i wonder still where that place is that warrants it that infants may be baptized at all , ●ith you are fain to confesse that that phrase go teach and baptize , yea even you your selves sometimes , who just before assigned it as the warrant for infant baptism , that it speaks onely of persons capable to be taught , and not of infants . as you say therefore that these places speak of the baptism of men and women onely that are capable ●o learn , believe and repent , and not exclusivly of infants , because they are not capable to do those things , who yet may be bap●ized for all that , so i say of these words , let a man examine himself , and so let him eat , they imply an unlawfulnesse in men and women only to eat the supper without self-examination , but not in infants , who being not capable to examine themselves , may ( any thing to the contrary there notwithstanding ) be admitted to the supper without it : t is men and women onely , and not children who upon non-examination of themselves are excepted . as you argue therefore that every administration to an nation includes infants , as well as men , unlesse the be excepted , and therefore they must be baptized : i conclude the same from those premises , concerning their right to other ordinances viz. therefore they must be preacht to , therefore they must eat the supper , two administrations given to all nations , from which infants are no more excepted then from baptism . as therefore you take it for an implicit exception of infants from the supper , in that they cannot perform what is required in that place to the receiving of it , i. e. not examine themselves , nor discern the lords body , though by name they are not excepted , so ( if you be not partial ) your own consciences will compel you to take it for at least as implicit an exception of infants from baptism , in that they are no way capable to perform those things which are required of persons in order to their admission to baptism in other places viz. nor to believe with all the heart , nor to confesse sin , nor amend their lives , nor repent , nor call on the name of the lord , all which were required of adult ones that come to baptism , as we see mat. . act. . act. . act. . and also in the rubrick where it being askt what is required of persons to be baptized ? answer is made thus , viz. repentance whereby they forsake sin : and faith whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of god made to them in that sacrament , though by name they be not excepted in any of these places . your cui signatum ei signum nisi obstet &c. your thredbare argument viz. to whom the thing signified belongs to them the sign , unlesse there be some impediment or in capacity to perform what is required in order to the receiving of the sign , if it had one farthing worth of force in it to give infants accesse to baptism , would equally avail to give them accesse to the supper , if we were minded in good earnest to plead their right to both , in evidence of which i shall argue upon you with your own argument , thus to whom the thing signified belongs , to them the sign also belongs , unlesse there be some exception or incapacity to perform what is required to the receiving of the sign . but the thing signified in the supper which is the same that 's signified in baptism viz. christ and his benefits belongs to infants , and there 's no more exception of them from it , then from baptism , nor more incapacity in them to perform that which is required to the supper , then there is in them to perform what 's required to baptism . ergo if they may receive the outward sign of baptism , they may receive the outward sign of the supper also . but in truth as they are no more capable of one of these signs then the other , so are they in very dead both uncapable of , and plainly enough alike excepted from both . secondly , is it so sirs , that infants being a great part ( if not the major part ) of all nations must therefore be baptized , because it s said baptize all nations , unless they bad been excepted , then i answer again , if you mean thus , viz. unless they had been some way or other ( at least vertually or implicitly excepted ) then infants are most manifestly and clearly excepted in this very text it self , mat. . . if there were no other in all the scripture to exclude them : for first though that be christs commission and direction to his disciples whom to baptize , yet there 's no mention at all of children , nor yet in mark . . . where the same will of christ is declared in other terms , concerning the baptism of such as are converted to the faith by preaching , and this d featley himself more then confesses , for he urges it with earnestness p. . in these words , viz. there is no mention of children in either of these texts , and if so that there 's no mention at all then they are not implied , as both mr. marshal and himself ( to the contradiction of himself ) affirms they are in the word nations , for for children to be both implied , and included in that word nations , and yet neither to be mentioned , nor meant therein at all , are inconsistent , and such a bo-peep as is impossible , and if they be not so much as implied , and mentioned in the commission they must needs be understood to be excepted and excluded . secondly , as there is no mention of children , so there is such a plain limitation , and restriction of baptism to such persons , as infants in infancy are not capable to be viz. disciples of christ , aliàs persons so taught and instructed by the ministration of men , as to believe the gospel , that they are more then purblind , who discern not infants ( for they are uncapable to learn by the teachings of men ) to be in that place excepted : for it is said go ye and teach all nations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the nations , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 understood in the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the nations , as by the figure synthesis , which is oratto congrua sensu non voce , i grant it may , yet not the nations by the lump , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 persons in the nations , that are indoctrinated and instructed , as infants cannot be , i. e. them that you have taught , and that have learnt , and are become disciples by your teaching : it is as plain as the light , that not any more of the nations are here bid to be baptized , than those , even those very individuals , that are first bid to be taught , or made disciples by mans ministery : for the pronoun [ them ] that is put after the participle [ baptized ] can possibly have no other substantive then [ those persons in those nations ] who ever they are , that are both capable subjects of teaching , and also actually instructed , and discipled ; it is most evident that teaching of persons is here commanded before the baptizing them . babist . the order of words , by which teaching is here set before baptizing proves nothing , for in mark . . that order is inverted , and baptizing set before preaching , thus , viz. iohn did baptize , and preach the baptism of repentance . baptist. so saies dr. holmes indeed p. . and t is also a common saying among you all but i tell yod if you were not minded more to pervert , then to preach the gospel , you could not be ignorant , that that inversion mark . . is such , as altars not the sense so , but that t is in sense , and signification the very same as we contend for out of mat. . . viz. that preaching is to go before baptizing , for though it be said there iohn did baptize and preach the baptism of repentance , it must necessarily be understood thus , viz. that he preached baptism to persons before he practised it to them ; for you cannot be so silly sure as to imagin that iohn first baptized persons when they came to him , before he opened his mouth to tell them wherefore ; yet i know one that being in a streit , did not stick to strein himself out by such a simple saying as that , but for all that , if that honest man who said thus ( i forbear to name him least i shame him ) were as true a minister of the gospel , as he supposes himself to be , and should go forth with his gospel to a nation as ignorant of the truth of baptisme as himself , and offer but such a small matter as his rantism , much more so worthy , so weighty and burdensome a business to the flesh as the true baptism is , viz. to overwhelm them in water , without declaring to them first for what end , and purpose , either he would shew himself an egregious and arrant simpleton in once conceiving they would , or they themselves but senseless animals , if they should so suddenly submit to him . moreover its apparent to any , but such as are resolved to shift off truth as long as they can , that the same passage of mark . . as t is recorded mat. . . . luke . . . shewes that iohn first came preaching the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , and then and thereupon people came out to him and were baptized of him in iordan confessing their sins . out of that place therefore mat. . . which is so usually assigned by your selves , as the main scripture , in which christ commands infant baptism , though upon examination it is oft asserted to be a place that neither mentions at all , nor once meddles with infants , and that by the self same persons that so assign it , i argue thus in disproof of them who assign it , as christ precept for infants baptisme , and in proof that its a plain prohibition of such a thing , viz. if christ there commissionates and commands his disciples to baptize none but the very same persons whom he commands them also first to teach , and make disciples by teaching , then that place is a plain prohibition , and not at all a precept to baptize infants ; for men cannot teach or disciple infants . but christ there commissionates and commands his disciples to baptize none but such as he also commands them first to teach , and make disciples by teaching . ergo , that place is a plain prohibition , and not at all a precept to baptize infants . the minor , which onely you can rationally require proof of , is so clear , that the blindest of you may see it in the text it self , where the pronoun them , that is governed by the participle baptizing , can possibly relate to no other substantive , but to the self same persons that are immediately before commanded to be taught , or made disciples , and whether you will have the substantive to [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to be [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] understood in the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as when it serves your turn , so far as to furnish your selves by comparing this place with act. . . with matter of proof ( prate i should say ) for infants discipleship , you will needs have it , for upon this account mr. cotton , mr. baxter and many more seem to proceed ) or [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] by the figure synthesis ( as some of you will rather have it ) t is much at a pass , yea not a strawes worth of advantage to you , take it which way you will , for still it will amount to this , that whether you make [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to agree with [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the nations , t is not the nations in gross ( as dr. holmes also tells you p. . ) for then all must be baptized ( saith he and truly too ) if the word nations , universally taken , doth there note the subjects of baptism ) but t is the nations with restriction , the nations discipled , i. e. so many in all nations as are first made disciples by teaching , and not more , that there are commanded to be baptized : and this mr. cotton , and mr. baxter , and dr. featley , and dr. holmes , and wellnigh all your champions are well aware cannot be denyed , and therefore rather then assert such a thing , viz. that any more are here bid to be baptized , then such as are first bid to be discipled , they chuse to take so hard a province upon them , as to proceed to the promotion of their cause by way of proof that infants are disciples . babist . in christs precept teaching doth not go before but follow baptizing mat. . . teaching them to observe all things . &c. baptist. so dr. featley fiddles this ore indeed p. . for these are his very words ; to which i reply , who denies that in christs precept preaching follows baptizing ? but what of that ? doth it follow , and is that the drs. meaning trow , that therfore it doth not go before it ? me thinks the man should not be so senslesse , nor do i think he was so senslesse as to think so , but the ground he stumbles at is the new found meaning of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of which i shall be occasioned to say more anon , onely here it shall suffice to say thus much viz. as t is clear there 's a teaching to follow baptizing in christs precept , so t is as clear that there 's a teaching to go before , of all persons to whomsoever baptism is dispensed , a teaching a priori , and a teaching a posteriori , the first in order to discipleship and baptism , the other after baptism in order to perfection , baptism is by precept to be immediately after the first , and the other is to be by precept so immediately after baptism , that infants being uncapable of both the one and of the other , viz. of being taught just before baptism and presently after baptism , are thereby universally excepted from it , yea these two teachings , neither of which is to be used to infants , are to come by precept so neer together , that there 's no room for infants baptism to come in between them . babist . they are not so much excepted by the words [ teach ] v. . and [ teaching ] ver . . but they are as much concluded to be the subject of baptism under the word [ all nations ] because they are a great part , if not the half of all nations ( as dr. featley ) and serve to make up a nation as well as their parents ( as mr. blake ) and in every nation make a great part of that nation as well as their parents , as mr. marshal urgeth . baptist. as if the precept for baptizing did extend it self to all persons in every nation without any limitation , or restriction , or any praevious preparation to it save onely barely being of the nations , nec mediante doctrinà , nec disciplinâ : but is it so sirs , then let me ask you , are not the infants of turks , pagans , tartars , indians , jews , unbelievers a part , yea a far greater part , and do they not serve much more to make up the number in nations , then the infants of believers ? why then ( if that be the ground you will needs go upon ) must not these be baptized as well as the other ? yea surely if this be a good argument to prove any ones right to baptism from this place , because he is of the nations , then stark natural fools , as well as infants , yea very profest profane ones , open enemies against the name of christ , as turks and pagans , being a great part of all nations , have as good right to baptism as any of those you rantize , or we our selves baptize either , for shame therefore forgo such rude kind of ratiocination . this therefore that all nations are bid to be baptized , cannot make mat. . . to be a precept for baptizing infants , though they be of the nations , unlesse they were capable to be taught , which because they are not , that place commanding no more to be baptized , then the same whom it commands also to be taught , and that not onely before but immediatly after baptism , is a plain prohibition of infant-baptism . a second way wherein t is argued by you that there 's command in mat. . . for the baptizing of infants , is from their being disciples , which weak twig , seeing your selves as it were sinking in your cause , you all catch at : yea i meet with none of you almost , but in one place or other of your writings i find your fortifying your selves in that foolish practise by this childish consideration , thus doth dr. featly , dr. holmes , mr. marshal , mr. bayly , mr. blake , mr. baxter , mr. cook , mr. cotton , among all which mr. cotton being the most formal and syllogistical in his argument from this place , & beginning his book with it ( as mr. baxter also doth , with whom i may chance to deal more then i will do in this place before i have done ) i le begin with him and in him , and after him , speak to you all sooner or later ( as occasion is ) about this particular . thus then he reasons from thence . such as be disciples they are to be baptized . but the children of the faithful are disciples . ergo the children of the faithfull are to be baptized . the former proposition is clearly exprest in the text ( saith he ) make disciples and baptize them , therefore all disciples are to be baptized , but had he concluded according to mood and figure , or the tenor of this text , or had he not been both blinded , and minded to go besides the sense of the spirit in this place , he would have said therefore all that are first made disciples by instruction are to be baptized , and then he had mard all his proceedings concerning infants . as for the second proposition which is the assertion of you all viz. that infants are disciples , mr. cotton toward the proof of it so miserably misapplies . pieces of isaiah , that he rather proves himself thereby to be yet but an infant in discipleship , and gospel understanding then proves infants to be disciples from thence . the first place is isa. . . whereby it s said , by way of promise to the church of the new ierusa●em , when once it shall be established a praise in all the earth ( as it is not yet , nor ever shall be till christs second appearing ) when god shall wipe away all tears from her eies , and secure her for ever from all future sufferings , and oppressions , that all her children shall be taught of god , and great shall be the peace of her children : from this place , which is meant of all the saints , and that immediate teaching which they shall once have , he argues thus , to all the naturall infants of believing parents in the church now , viz. if they be taught of god , then are they disciples , for that is the meaning of the word disciples . disciples are taught or learned of god. his second place is isay. . . where it s said there shall be no more thenceforth an infant of daies &c. in which place , what ere the meaning is , it matters not a rush as to his purpose , so long as it s spoken of a time that is yet to come . now here is such a messe of mistakes as may well make a wise man amaz'd , and and make him muse whether the pen-man of this proof of that minor , that infants are disciples , and consequently to be baptized according to mat. . . were well awake , or asleep when he set it down , concerning it i le propound four things to be well examined of you all , first whether he be not egregiously mistaken in the persons to whom those promises are made , which if they be all infants of the faithful , considered as in their minority , then is there a mighty mist before my eyes , for really by the best improvement i can make of my understanding , i can possibly ken no such matter , nor that it is any other then the saints , and faithful ones themselves ; even all of them , and not any of their children after the flesh , but as they prove faithfull , and do become saints in their own persons as well as their parents . secondly whether he be not grossely mistaken about the time wherein these promises are to be fulfilled , in fuller evidence of both which consider , first as to the first scripture , who ever they are that are there expressed by the term [ thy children ] they are all and every of them without exception partakers of the lords teaching , and of all the other priviledges there promised , for it s said , all thy children shall be taught of the lord &c. at that time therefore wherein this shall be fulfilled this promise shall be performed to every individual of those kind of persons , to whom it s made , not one excepted , which shews that it is meant onely of the saints , for they are the churches children , and not their natural seed , and of that time onely when the new ierusalem , which is not yet , shall come down from god out of heaven , for so shall it then be with all the faithful that shall inhabit that city of the lord , whose people are said also to be all righteous , is. . . but this is not performed to all the children of the faithfull now , neither are they all taught of god , with that effectual teaching there promised , as is evident , in that many of them in time prove reprobates , when wicked mens children prove elect . secondly , it is expresly shewed in the v. who are the persons whose portion and heritage these priviledges are , for this ( saith he ) is the heritage of the servants of the lord. as for the second place , so far is it from speaking of infants in infancy , that it rather shewes that there shall be no infant of daies , i. e. that shall dy an infant , nor old man that hath not filled his daies in that time , but the very child shall dy an hundred years old , i. e. he shall be counted as dying young , or a child that lives but an hundred years , so long lived shall they be in those daies , yea as the daies of a tree shall be the daies of my people ( saith god ) and mine elect shall long enjoy the works of their hands . and as to the time when these things shall be , t is not now , but in the reign of christ , when the new ierusalem shall be built with saphirs , and all precious stones , and when the lord shall make the new heavens and the new earth , which is not yet in being , but is looked for of all the saints at the comming of christ , and the redemption of israel ( as peter saith ) according to his promise , which appears plainly by comparing isa. . — . with . pet. . , . and also by the last text of the two , which mr. cotton abuses , viz. isa. . v. which saith this shall be from thenceforth , i. e. from the time of gods creating that new heavens and new earth . thirdly , whether he doth not most palpably depart from the matter he took first in hand to prove unto another thing , which is no more to his purpose , then if he had said bo to a goose ; yea he runs clear away from the scripture he began upon and never returns to it more , as if he were affraid to come near it , scarce ere so much as facing about , or looking behind him : for what he ought to have cleared ( but surely he thought he could not , and therefore was not minded to meddle with it ) was this , viz. that in order to being the subjects of the baptism there injoined infants are disciples , in such a sense as is there spoken of viz. made so by the ministery of the word , and teaching ; for saith christ go teach all nations baptizing them , but his is not to the same , not ad idem , but ad aliud quoddam , a certain other thing , which if he did prove ( as he doth not ) it could in no wise prove what he brings it in proof of , viz. that infants of the faithful , upon the account of some uncouth , unheard of , strange , secret sort of teaching and learning , which these infants have from god , above any other , may be truly said to be disciples , and thereupon to be baptized . and this though it be not spoken so broadly by any as by mr. cotton , who makes it his business so far as to wrest and pervert certain scriptures into the proof of it , insomuch that some of his fellow fighters for infant-baptism are ashamed on 't and disclaim it , ( witness mr. bayly p. . where , speaking of infants being disciples , i speak not ( saith he ) of that which divers maintain , viz. the application of that in esay to infants , they shall be all taught of god ) yet is it more tacitly hinted to be the opinion of most of you , whereupon you attribute both discipleship , and baptism to infants , as if that were the main thing meant in mat. . . where christ means no such matter as the inward secret and unknown teachings of god , but the teachings or making disciples to him by the ministery of men . thus saies mr. cook in his answer to the vanity of childish baptism , p. . infants of believing parents are made disciples of god and christ. and mr. marshall in his reply to mr. tombes , p. . though they be not capable of receiving instruction from men , yet they are capable of gods own teaching even in their infancy . so dr. holmes p. . god can preach to the heart and so to children . so mr. baxter , page . if they can learn nothing of the parents , yet christ hath other waies of teaching then by men , even by the immediate workings of his spirit . so you ashford disputants , p. . & . infants have an hearing the spirit opens their ears , quo magistro , quam cito discitur , quod docet ? but sirs first is there any scripture that teaches you this twattle , unless you misuse to that end those scriptures mr. cotton doth , that god teaches believers infants thus ? secondly , doth it appear to you , that any one of the infants , that you sprinkle in particular , is taught or hath learned any thing of god before you sprinkle it ? thirdly , is it any more evident to you that all believers infants are taught of god , then t is that unbelievers infants are taught by him ? have ye not instance , that unbelievers children , not in infancy , but so soon as ever they are capable to learn any thing are often taught of god , and as oft believers children are not ? as iosia at eight years was taught of god , and became a precious saint , though the child of wicked ammon , when all the children of this good iosia himself , were left untaught by him , i mean unconverted under all his teaching . fourthly , if it were as sure ( as the contrary is sure , for who sees any effects of gods teaching them from the womb , when as we see not that they know a jot more then other children , till god teaches them by the instruction of men ? ) were it sure i say that these infants are taught of god in infancy , yet what is this to prove infants to be the persons commanded to be baptized in mat. . for there christ doth not bid them go , and make disciples to him by gods inward teachings , for that was more then they could perform , but he bids them go , and disciple the nations , and instruct them , and baptize them , i. e. those that by their teaching are made disciples : nor is there one crumb of commission there for their baptizing of any other : and in this sense taking the word [ disciples ] his minor is most false . fiftly , let it be examined , whether the words of mr. cotton do not clearly contradict sundry of your expressions about the meaning of that word [ disciple ] about which several of you not a little also contradict your selves , about which therefore either he , or you must be mistaken : for he confesses the true meaning of the word [ disciple ] is taught , or learned , and disciples are such as are taught and have learned : but several of you say that discipling is not teaching , and breeding schollars , or making them learned , nor to be discipled , to be taught , or learned , but that baptizing may well be rendered a discipling , and to make disciples ▪ or disciple persons , is to admit schollars , and to admit to be taught . so mr. marshal saies he learns from certain criticks , better then mr. tombes , in his reply to mr. tombes p. . . so mr. cook p. . to make children disciples ( saith he ) is to give them up unto god , i. e. in baptism , promising to bring them up in the knowledge of god , so soon as they shall be capable of outward teaching , so that they are ipso facto disciples in respect of that promise , and of gods obligation to teach them , and such like stuff . so mr. bayly p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not to teach , but make disciples , i. e. to bring to them to the school of god , the visible church , to dedicate them to gods discipline to give their names up to be gods subjects and schollers . so dr. featley p. . though children in their nonage cannot be taught , yet they may be made christs disciples , by being admitted into his school , their parents giving their names to christ , both for themselves and their fami●lies . so mr. baxter p. , . they say , saith he , they cannot learn , but they may enjoy the priviledges of the family , and school , and be under his charge and dominion , and that is enough to make them capable of being disciples . as if so be when christ commissionated his disciples to disciple nations , he meant not that they should teach them , but in a sense abstract from their own teachings , he means thus , go and admit scholars to be taught , baptize persons , and thereby give them up to me , consecrate them to me , put them out to school to me , so that though they cannot learn , yet they may partake of my protection and provision , and such like confused foppery as this , which to assert is unsound , shamefully non-sensical , and unbeseeming the judgements of any men , but such as devote themselves ( unawares ) to the delusion of themselves and others . but howbeit you are all of one mind in this , and are agreed to shu● out teaching from being any part of that work of making disciples unto christ , that you may uphold that meer tradition of admitting infants unto baptism , as if the act of baptizing were to make persons disciples , more then the act of teaching , yet i shall close with mr. cotton here against you all , and undertake to make good , what he saies towards your confutation herein , viz. that the true meaning of the word [ disciple ] is one that hath learned by instruction , and not one that is admitted to be taught , before he is so much as capable to learn , as is frivolously fained by dr. featley . mr. marshal and others : yea though dr. featley doth shift off all teaching before baptizing , by saying that the words of our saviour are not [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] but [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] p. . make disciples , not by teaching but admitting into christs school , yet ( to let pass his false rendring of the word , for want of looking into his greek testament , which is not [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) i must tell all you that so adhere to him , and mr. marshall also , who holds the same with him , and criticizes out of the rabinick doctors , and spanhemius , saying that with them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is not as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make scholars learned by teaching , but onely to admit them to be taught , non quia erant docti . sed ut essent , and that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] signifies not onely to teach , but to make disciples ▪ which is done ( saith he out of spanhemius ) by these two actions viz , baptizing and teaching : i must tell you i say , and them and their criticks also , first if their own words were never so true , yet they make much more for us , who deny infants to be disciples , then you , and are much more exclusive then admissive of such younglings as you sprinkle to the name of scholars , disciples : for if it be but so as the rabbies saie that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] be onely to admit scholars to be taught , doth it not signifie much more then infants of eight dayes are capable of ? and were not he more simple then sober , and well in his wits , that being a father should enter his child , or being a master should entertain a child of or dayes old to be taught , whilst he is yet , and is long like to be uncapable of the least tincture of tuition ? and doth he deserve to be called a scholar himself ( as to that particular , how learn'd soever otherwise ) who both calls and contends to have persons called scholars , not onely before they have learned ever a letter , but some years before they are capable to be taught a tittle : as for circumcision which was so timely dispenst , its intent was not to admit the subjects to be taught , as mr. marshal vainly contends , saying that they were then discipled when circumcised i. e. then first initiated and admitted immediately to be taught , but somewhat else ( as i have shewd above ) for when it was dispenst to infants it was set to a subject utterly uncapable to be taught , and when to grown men , that subject was to be instructed before it ; and as for baptism to which from circumcision mr. marshall analogically argues the same , that is not by intent and institution the first admission of persons to be taught , though persons are to be further taught after it in other doctrines , act. , . mat. . . but it was one of these doctrines of christ it self which was to be taught before dispensed , and as it were a certain sermon , wherein the person submitting is to be instructed and shewed many pretious things viz. christ dead , buried , and raised while dispensed , and though it is one of the six principles , or first doctrines of christ that is to be preached , believed and practised by new born babes , and ( i mean not in your sense but another ) by beginners in christs school , yet is it not the first among the six in order , but the third , to which two other doctrines , viz. faith and repentance ought to be antecedent , heb. . . . . act. . . mark. . . mark. . , . and if it be so as mr. marshall saies spanhemius affirms , giving good reason ( though it s but bald reason as i shall shew by and by ) for his analysis viz. that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to make disciples doth not signifie simply to teach , for then there would be found tautology in christs words , because he repeats teaching again after baptizing , but to baptize and teach both , so as that christs meaning is this ( as he saies ) viz. go and make me disciples out of all nations by baptizing and teaching , and so as that this businesse of making disciples is to be accomplisht or attained by two , and not under these two actions at least , viz. baptizing and teaching ( as he saies t is ) then let all the world judge , whether infants be not still by that opinion as uncapable to be made disciples as before , for whether [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to make disciples be a matter , or end attainable simply by that one action of eaching onely , or whether not under these two mediums viz. baptizing and teaching both , still no men in the world are able to make infants of a few daies old disciples , for howbeit they are capable to have one of these actions acted on them viz. to be baptized ; yet till they come to years they cannot be instructed or taught , rill when ( as sp●nhemius sayes well ) the end of making them disciples is not attained . by those very testimonies therfore , whereby mr. marshall would prove infants to be disciples ( o how is the understanding of the prudent brought to naught ) that infants are not capable to be made disciples in christs sense and present dialect , he hath in print proved it to the world , and that for ever . moreover what if notwithstanding all that mr. marshal and his curious criticks conceive , his rabinick phrases ( as he calls them ) viz. his [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] and his [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] which are in sense the same , be both found to signifie otherwise then his learned spanhemius , and reverend rabbies do render them ? viz. not meerly to admit to be taught , much lesse to disciple one barely by baptizing ( as mr. marshall would perswade us , quite contrary to his own quotation out of spanhemius , in this very application of it , for spanhemius saies ( and so he quotes him ) that to disciple is to baptize , and teach both , but he that baptizing onely is discipling ) i say what if they be found to signifie neither baptizing onely , nor baptizing and teaching both , nor admitting one by baptism to be taught , or consecrating , or initiating into christs school by baptism , or any such like thing , as you divines dream on , but rather mainly , if not onely , the acts of teaching and instructing persons , till they have learn'd what is taught them , abstract from the acts of baptizing , and admitting into the church ? will it not appear much more plainly then , that infants are not capable to be made disciples ? and yet to the contradiction of mr. marshal , and all the rest , mr. cotton declares this to be his opinion , viz. that the true meaning of the word [ disciple ] is taught or learn'd : or if mr. cotton may not be credited , if mr. marshall will take christs own word for it , which is more worth then either mr. cottons , or those rabbies , and from whose use of the word , and not theirs , its best to be understood , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is to make disciples before baptism , and not by it , and ( though baptism is necessit . .te praecepti , and for many ends viz. the visibility of the thing to others , and fuller evidence of things believed to themselves , necessarily and immediately to follow after i ) to teach an instruct men in the gospel , for there can be no other way of making disciples but this of teaching , assigned as antecedent to baptism : and in proof that that phrase so signifies in scripture , see iohn . . where it s said of christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. he maketh and baptizeth more disciples then iohn , which phrase [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] you see by the conjunction copulative [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is set down as a distinct action from [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] he made disciples and then baptized them , therefore he did not make them by baptizing them , but by something he acted towards them before viz. by preaching and instruction so it must be , for else , if you talk of tantology , here had been tantology in the evangelists words indeed , for if he had said thus , viz. he made or baptized ( as it must have been , if the words [ he made disciples and baptized ] had been synonimaes , in sense just one and the same ) then you had had some couler for your conception , but sith he saies he made disciples and baptized them , it shewes plainly that he made them before he baptized them , and that these two words [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] and [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] are not one and the same in signification , for then there had been tantology in using them both , and though the expression be different yet the sense is no other then if it were said thus , viz. iesus baptized , and baptized more than iohn . i appeal also to your own consciences , whether what christ speaks in this very text we are yet upon , viz. mat. . . by the participle [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] may not without any violation of the sense , be read imperatively by the verb [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] thus viz. teach all nations , and baptize them , and if so whether [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] and [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] would be terms equipollent in that praecept , and if so whether it were not tautology to say ( as in sense you would make christ to say there ) go and baptize all nations , and baptize them , and little better then such vain repetition is it though you read it by the participle , if [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to disciple be rendered to baptize , and ( retro ) baptizing may well be rendered discipling ( as mr. marshall saies it may ) for then at the best it is but thus , viz. go and baptize the nations , baptizing them , which kind of geminations , though they are not more frequent , then elegant in the hebrew tongue , yet are but tautology in your own judgements among the greeks : besides that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make disciples is to teach persons till they have learned , and nothing else ( properly taken ) is plain to any that considers what these substantives signify , and the several roots , from whence they are derived , in the several tongues to which they appertain , for as [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] in the hebrew comes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didicit , and is rendered discens ab alio , and used in scripture for one that learns , and is actually under teaching , chron. . . so [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] in the greek is of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] disco , and signifies the very same , viz. one that learnes at least , and is so used in scripture , yea so necessary is it to learn the commands of christ , in order to the being his disciples , that he himself professes whoever hath not learned to bear his cross , and follow him ( which infants cannot do , and yet may be saved nevertheless ( dying infants ) these things being not required of infancy , as neither to be christs disciples or to learn of him ) cannot be his disciple : which term disciple comes also of the latine word [ disco ] to learn , and signifies one learning , and is never used in scripture for any other , yea further that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] doth ( contrary to what mr. marshall , and his criticks say it doth in mat. . ) signifie elsewhere , if not every where else simply and onely to teach , is to be seen by christs own usage of i● in other places , for speaking in the passive mat. . . viz. learn , or be ye taught of me , for i am meek &c. he hath this very phrase in the greek , viz. [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] so iohn . . [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] every one that hath learned , so saies paul phil. . . [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] but if you will not learn of christ and paul , yet be pleased to learn this one from another , that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] in that place , mat. . signifies onely a general teaching , for if either you that follow dr. featley who saies [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is not teach , or mr. bayly . or mr. marshall ( who above all the rest hath most reason to hearken to dr. holmes , sith he mannageth the very same cause of infant-baptism with him , and that against the very same antagonist mr. tombes ) will but consult dr. holmes p. . he tells you that as [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is ver . . so [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] ver . . therefore most likely in v. . it signifieth onely a general teaching , and this he saies not of his own head , but out of as great criticks , as mr. marshall quotes to the contrary , viz. legh crit. s. novar . in matth. . . the great arias , who renders it only [ docete ] teach . so the renowned vatablus . so the syr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the arab. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so many other which for brevitie he omits . see also his alphabetical index in the letter d , where he saies that [ go teach ] is not rendered to disciple , or make disciples by the arabick , syriack , and saint mark , or the exactest latins , or by the best translations of the new testament in french , dutch , germain , hebrew , another syr. italian margin , or by the holy spirit , which ( saith he ) p. . renders this text ( meaning mat : . . and that term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] by plain [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] preach the gospell mark . . much more in proof that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] cannot be any other than teach , he hath p. . and all this over again p. . yea so ( saith he ) the great criticks , or learned men in the greek tongue say , that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is to teach them that are strangers to doctrine , that they may become disciples , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to teach them that are disciples so say we that are no criticks , viz. that there is a first general teaching to acquaint persons with the gospel , which when once they believe , and are baptized , there is a second teaching to bring them on towards perfection ; by all which , though the words of christ , who saies go teach , baptizing , teaching , are vindicated from ta●tology , ye● you will never be vindicated from the fault of flat antalogy , or contradiction among your selves , who quote criticism against criticism to the overthrowing and falsifying of one anothers opinions , and principles , and all this in edification of the same practise of infants sprinkling , which must needs be believed to be a good one , when in prosecution of it , o woman that ridest and misguidest the nations , thou art so contrary to thy self , some saying that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] mat. . signifies only to teach ; some to disciple not by teaching , but baptizing , or admitting to be taught ; some to make disciples by both these actions not either of them alone , viz. teaching and baptizing ; some arguing thus viz. infants are disciples , and therefore they must be baptized , as mr. cotton , and mr. baxter , mr. bayly , dr. holmes , dr. featley , mr. blake , mr. marshall , and who not ? some again thus , viz. that they must be baptized , and thereby made disciples , as mr. marshall , mr. baxter , and others of you , who tell us that by baptism they must be discipled , i. e. entered and admitted into christs school that they may be taught : o pure round abouts ! for thus it runs up and down in your writings , viz. that they are not made disciples but by these two actions , baptizing , and teaching ▪ and yet to go round again , they cannot be taught , nor made disciples in that way of teaching , and learning , but must be discipled by baptizing ; and yet to go round again , infants of believers are disciples , and upon the account of their being so are to be baptized . lastly , as to that frivilous flim flam from acts . . into the blind belief of which you are all indoctrinated , and discipled one by another ( for there is scarce any of you that write but you have a touch on it , witness mr. cotton p. . mr. marshall in his sermon p. . in his reply to mr. tombes p. . mr. bayly p. . mr. baxter p. . dr. holmes himself , that denies utterly that they are bid to be discipled in mat. . p. . yet asserts that in acts . . infants of believers are called disciples p. . i shall say a little to your folly in that also , and so leave you to consider it at your leasure . and because mr. marshall is the main man i had last in hand , and the man that frames the most formal argument from that scripture , whereby to prove infants to be disciples , i le single out wh●● he saies , and see what may be said in answer to it , and in him you will all stand or fall in this particular : the form in which he reasons serm. p. . is this . babist . all they upon whose necks those false teachers would have put the yoke of circumcision are called disciples . but they would have put the yoke of circumcision upon infants as well as grown men . ergo infants as well as grown men are called disciples , and to be called so . baptist. the minor which is so undeniable that it needs no proof ( for who denies , but that they who taught the brethren or disciples at antioch , would have put circumcision upon the necks of their male infants as well as of themselves ? for after the manner of moses , though not of christ , so it was to be ) he falls pell mell upon the proof of that , but as for the major which is so palpably , and apparently false that it needs no disproof , that ( saith he ) is undeniable , and so he slides away without once offering to make any proof of it at all . i shall therefore shew you how plainly he perverts the text , how false his foundation or major proposition is , and consequently how rotten and weak his whole building . that scripture hints onely thus much to us viz. that they would have put the yoak of circumcision upon the necks of the disciples , out of which , but how inconsequently a very idiot may understand , he publisheth this proposition viz. all they upon whose necks they would have put the yoak of circumcision were called disciples , but what monstrous solaecism , what ignorant incongruity is to be seen in these two sentences , if laid together ? what naked arguing is this , they would have put the yoak of circumcisiin upon the necks of the disciples , therefore all they were disciples upon whose necks they would have put it ? i appeal to mr. marshals own conscience to judge whether it be any better then this viz. caesar put the yoak of tribute upon the necks of christs disciples . ergo all they , upon whose necks caesar put that yoke , were christs disciples . i am hardly perswaded within my self that such a man as mr. marshall could first preach this ore , secondly , print it ore ; thirdly , repeat is , reprint it ore again , with so sleight an answer to it as he gives to mr. tombes p. . of his reply , and not see the nakednesse of it , which if he doth see , i charge him as he will answer it before the lord iesus at the last day , that he declare it to the undeceiving of s , that for ought he knows may be dangerously deluded by it , and that he do not dare any longer thus to darken counsel by words without knowledge : as for that sorry allusion whereby he puts off mr. tombes , who denies his major for this reason , viz. because it is not said , they would have put the yoak of circumcision upon the disciples onely , it s but a further delusion of himself and others . i hope saith he you will receive the same law you give , therefore when your self do plead , meaning against infants baptism , iohns and christs disciples required confession of faith and sins of those whom they baptized , i answer saith he , that its nowhere said they baptized only such . but sir , though it be not said totidem verbis they baptized onely such , yet it is said in terminis aequivalentibus , in words that can imply possibly no lesse , for when it s told us by way of true narration . mat. . . . that ierusalem , and all iudea , and all the region round about iordan were baptized , confessing their sins , it is in sense as if he had said , that all they of ierusalem , iudea , and about iordan , that were baptized , were baptized thus , viz. confessing their sins and consequently that onely those who confessed their sins were baptized , and when it s told us for truth , to the end that we might know who , and how many that day were baptized and added to the church , act. . . in these termes , viz. then they that gladly received his word were baptized , and the same day there were added ( meaning to those . that continued in supplication act. . . ) about soules , those termes [ they that gladly received the word ] must needs be exclusive of all others that did not gladly receive the word , & consequently of infants that could not , or else we are clearly cousen'd by that story ; for if i undertake to relate truly by way of chronicle , who and how many were executed at such an assize , or slain in such a battel on such a day ( as luke doth in act. . to shew who and how many were baptized on that day ) and expresse it in such terms as do include the third part of them only ( for the several housholds to which those souls did belong , would surely have amounted to thrice as many more , had all those whole housholds been baptized with them ) i should be reputed as no better then an impostor : but the case is not the same in act. . . for the end and intent of luke the historian , and peter the spokesman in that place was not to relate how many they would have yoaked with circumcision , but the drift of peter was onely to reprove the false teachers , and of luke onely to declare how peter did reprove them for offering so to subjugate , and subvert the brethren , for so they are called ver . . even the very same persons which are called disciples ver . . which shews also that by the word [ disciples ] he means not infants , for they were persons capable to be taught , yet this is the strongest hold you have whereby you argue infants to be disciples , and taking it by force from thence , that infants are disciples , you run headlong with it to mat. . . where christ saies , go teach , or by teaching disciple the nations , baptizing them , and from thence rest an argument for their baptism , but i am ashamed that i must take occasion ( unlesse i le betray the truth ) to reprove the rudenesse of such renowned men , and conclude ( all their conceits to the contrary notwithstanding ) that mat. . . is no commission nor command for infant baptism . it follows not therefore from the wonted circumcising of infants , from which you ashford disputants dispute it , that therefore they are to be baptized , for this reason viz. because there was a command for the circumcising of infants , but ( as i have shewd above ) none at all ( no not from mat. . . nor mark. . . much lesse from any other piece of christs will and testament ) that they are to be baptized now . but mr. marshal fetches it about another way yet , and because christs own testament is somewhat barren of provision by way of precept for infants baptism , he runs back to moses testament , and fetches what help he can from thence , and undertakes to prove the command for the circumcising of infants , to be a consequential and vertual command and commission for the baptizing of them now , p , . . . of his sermon . in prosecution and proof of which position , he spends himself in above pages of his reply to mr. tombs , in which great compasse , who ever lists to follow him , and tumble ore all that talk of his to mr. tombes , may soon be lost in a laborinth of legal customs and institutions , into which he leads men back from the plain simplicity of the gospel , then find on inch of evangelicall institution of infant baptism , of all which i may safely say seriously , before such as know the law of moses from the gospel , as mr. tombes is taken ( if not mistaken ) by him to speak ieeringly p. . that though in bulk and shew it look like the travell of the mountains , yet the birth and result of all is but a meer silly mouse , for this is the conclusion of that whole matter viz , that that very command for circumcision of infants , that was expressely given before gen. . and expressely bound abraham to sign his infants with it in infancy , so teacheth and reacheth us now by analogy and good consequence , that even that alone , that old testament institution without respect to any reviving thereof in any part of the new testament , may serve our turnes as a sufficient command , that doth vertually bind us to baptize our infants now : to which absurdity , though many a wise man would afford no other answer then a laugh in his sleeve , yet as very a fool as i am ▪ i shall onely soberly reply to it as follweth . first , is it so that the command to circumcise infants is vertually a command to us to baptize them ? then sirs why do you not keep close to your command , and by analogy baptize precisely on the eighth day , but on any other as you see good ? babist . the variation of the time is but a circumstance , but an accidentall thing , neither here nor there , nor much material when ordinances are administred , whether at this time or at that , as mr , marshal well observes p. . saying the eight day onely was an accidental thing , and therefore binds us not , as neither the time for the passeover binds us to the same time for the supper : you must not make every thing a substantiall part of the sacrament , which god hath made a part of the outward administration onely , that circumstance of time had some peculiar relation to that manner of administration , and had nothing common to the nature of a sacrament in generall , or to the end and use of that sacrament as the seal of admission . baptist. say you so , that the time is but a crcumstance , and such an accidental thing in circumcision , peculiar to that administration onely , not binding us to the same time in the administration of baptism , but left to us to do it ad libitum , according to our own discretion ? then pray tell me , sith to do it on the eight day is not needful , whe●her to do it on the th th or th day be any more needful then that , and whether to do it on the th day be any more then a meer difference though at a greater distance in that circumstance of time , and so whether i may not consequently let it alone till the th or th year of their age unlesse they professe faith and desire it before , before i baptize my children by your own opinion and assertion : for it appears by you there is no time prescribed , more then other wherein baptism is enjoyned to be dispensed , unlesse you say that time wherein they appear to believe , and therein we will join with you with all our hearts , let it fall out when it will early or late . babist . no such matter neither at any hand , for by that means the subject will come to be altered to , which by such a degree of delay must necessarily be men and women onely , and no infants at all : for as we must so far keep analogy with circumcision in our administration of baptism , as to dispense baptism to the same subiect at least , though we differ in that meer circumstance of time , so we must differ no further in the time then is consistent with the identity of the subject , which is one and the same in circumcision and baptism , this is not an accidental , but a substantial businesse in the covenant , and so altogether in ●●terable , that there may be no variation of it without violation of the covenant gen. . for though we need not stand particularly upon the precise time of the eighth day , yet at least we must keep within the general time of infancy , so as that we must baptize infants under the gospel consequentially , and by vertue of that command to circumcise infants of old . baptist. that 's the great matter pleaded by you indeed , as wherein of necessity there must be such an analogy between baptism and circumcision viz. an idendity in the subject of both : you flee to the institution of circumcision as your supreme warrant for baptizing infants ; but is there not as much deviation from the manner of circumcision , as touching the subject it self among you , as there is in any thing else ? if you must keep so strictly to one and the same subject in circumcision , and baptism , why do you alter the subject your selves ? why baptize you any females , when god commanded males onely to be circumcised ? and why not male servants though unbelieving moores , turks or pagans if of believing masters ? or have you a certain dispensation or liberty lent you to dispense baptism , as much besides your rule as you please , and yet to be accounted as conformable to your rule still ? babist . we find the new testament injoining baptism , and dispensing it to females , as well as males , for it s said act. . that when they believed the things spoken by philip pertaining to the kingdome of god , they were baptized both men and women : and therefore there is warrant enough for us to vary so far from circumcision , though it be vertually a command to us concerning baptism , as to admit of females to the one , when males onely were admitted to the other . baptist. you say right : for howbeit indeed under the covenant of circumcision , all the males whether children or servants born in the house or brought with money ; and they only ( not any females were admitted to that administration , yet it is most evident that ( as to baptism ) it matters not whether persons be male or female , for they are all one in christs account , according as they believe in him , one sex having no more right thereto then the other , gal. . . . . but if you betake your selves to the new testament only as your rule for baptism , though you find warrant there for men and women , yet you find none at all there for infants to be baptized : yea that is as much warrant to us in our varying from the manner of circumcision in the point of infants , by omission of it unto them , as 't is for you to vary from circumcision in the point of females by admission of them unto baptism , for as you are fain to plead for all your strong hold of circumcisions being instituted , and of old dispensed to infants , no less then new testament institution , and instance for the admission of females , so if we insist upon onely the new testament institution , and example we can as truly say there is neither precept nor president for baptizing infants , as you can say there is both for baptizing females , and with as much confidence as you can say t is evident there , that both men and women were baptized , may i say it is evident that infants were not , at least it is not evident that they were , and that is enough to serve our turn in this case , wherein it lies upon you , who practise infants baptism , to produce some proof or other that t was practised in the primitive times , and some precept direct , or consequential , from the law of christ , and not to content your selves , and cousin the world with such a poor pretence , as to say that the command for the circumcision of infants is a consequential and virtual command to us to baptize them , which as bindings as you say it is to us in this case , when it comes to be examined ; you see it binds us as little to the same subject , as to the same circumstance of time . you ly groaping for a warrant for your way in the old testament , and law of moses , and being not a little aware that you have not warrant enough in the new , you look after that law-giver , that is long since out of date to the church , for the doing of which you need no other to accuse you then he , even moses , in whom you trust , who instead of inviting you to learn of himself under the times , and promulgation of the gospel , how gospel ordinances should be administred ; rather conjures the very iews themselves , that were as we never were , his own disciples , whilest his testament stood iohn . . and that with a curse , from any longer attendance unto his voice , to attendance unto the voice of another prophet christ iesus , when god should raise him up unto them , you forget sirs that we are now under the new testament , and the teachings and law of another law-giver , another apostle , and high priest of our profession , who was faithfull to him that appointed him as a son over his own house , i. e. the gospel church , as moses though a servant , was faithful to him that appointed him in all his house , the fleshly israel : so faithful was moses as to make all things plain in his testament , so that his disciples during the time of that covenant , whereof he was mediator , might easily see , if they were careful to look into his law , the mind of god concerning them in every administration of that testament , so that they need not look any where else but to his law , yea in heb. . . moses spake every precept to all the people according to the law , and shall we think that this man , who is worthy of more glory then moses , and who is now as a son over his own house , hath not been so faithfull , as to make sufficient provision of plain precepts , lawes , and ordinances so as to speak distinctly , and to give out his will and testament clearly , so that his disciples may know it , without running back to learn of his servant moses ? doth not god himself say of this prophet by the mouth of moses himself , deut. . . i will put my words in his mouth , and he shall speak unto them all that i shall command him , him shall they hear in all things , whatsoever he shall say , and it shall come to pass that whosoever shall not hearken to my words which he shall speak in my name , i will require it of him , and he shall be destroyed from among the people , act. . . . is it likely then that he hath left his will so darkly delivered , concerning his own institutions , that his ministers should be fain to fetch it so far , as you fetch infants baptism , who say there is a consequentiall , and virtual command , and institution for it in the old testament of moses , for as much as infants are there commanded to be circumcised ? i am ashamed to see such masters in israel ( as you go for ) so dishonor and disparage the great master of the gospell house , and mediator of the gospel testament , as to straggle and wander and run from him to moses , to learn how to administer his ordinances : from the son to the servant ? from the living to the dead ? from the gospel to a law long since ended ? from the truth to the type ? from the substance to the shadow ? as if there were not light enough shining forth from god in the face of iesus christ , for the use of his houshold , without beholding the vailed face of moses ; for that he gave circumcision as a part of his law , though it was of the fathers and was in being before him , as sacrifices also were , and other parcels of that old testament whereof he was mediator , is shewed abundantly above out of iohn . . . certainly sirs , that cause is none of christs , whose defendants are so hardly bestead , when they are put to clear it that they are driven from christ himself to call out to moses , master help us or else we perish . babist . though there is no such syllabicall , or expresse precept for infants baptism in the new testament , as there was for circumcision under the old , yet there is precept enough to us , so long as we find no prohibition . baptist , this was m kents way of arguing the lawfulness of infants baptism in publike one day at crambroke , and at staplehurst also , the same evening following , with my self in the presence of some others ; it is not forbidden ( saies he ) therefore it is commanded : to which it was answered to this effect , viz. that it is not commanded therefore it is forbidden : for we being forbidden to add to the words of christ , and to preach any other than what was delivered to the churches by the apostles gal. . . . revel . . . what ordinance , dispensation and peece of worship , and service soever is not appointed by him , must consequently and clearly be prohibited , and be but meer will worship , if performed : in fuller proof of which , viz. that it is sufficiently forbidden , that of philip to the eunuch was made use of , whose words [ if thou believest with all thy heart 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , licet , thou maiest ] being made in answer to the question quid ni ? what hinders why i may not be baptized ? as they express it to be lawfull for such as believe with all their hearts , so they must plainly imply to any understanding , that is not resolved to be impudent in withstanding truth , that non licet , it is not lawful for such to be baptized as do not , even as ( your selves being judges ) there 's not more permission for self examinants to eat the supper , in that expression of paul [ let a man examine himself , and so let him eat ] then there is prohibition but all this would not then be accepted for an answer , without an express sillabicall , formal forbidding it in such word viz. ye shall not baptize infants : ( by the way i wonder where the express prohibition was for circumcising females , if it lye not vertually in this viz. that there 's no command nor example for circumcising them ) whereupon in our after , and occasionall discourse that night , i calling for an express prohibition of that popish practise of baptizing bells , it was returned ( in sense i am sure , as i remember in words ) to this purpose viz. that if it were not forbidden then it might be done , but it was forbidden in this respect , forasmuch as bells were not capable of baptism , to which i said nor infants neither ; and so we parted , since when i never saw him , nor now shall ( since he is departed this life ) till we meet before the tribunall seat of christ in that life , which is to come , and least all this should be of as little weight with others , as it was with him , i shall adde a little by way of proof , that there 's prohibition enough of infants baptism , in case it be not clearly commanded , for first , what is not commanded of god is but tradition of man , for which men shall have no thank for their labour mat. . . secondly , neither are we altogether without such positive prohibition , as may be sufficient to satisfie you at least , who hold the command for circumcision of infants to be a command for the baptizing of them : in order to your understanding of which , i shall refer you to act. . . where it s said of paul , that he taught all the iews , which were among the gentiles , to forsake moses , saying , that they ought not to circumcise their children , nor to walk after the customes . in which scripture i beseech you in the fear of god to observe how t is rehearsed that three things were most expressely forbdiden , as unlawful for the iews themselves , much more to any believing gentiles under the dayes of the gospel , by pauls preaching . first , they were forbidden ( in general ) to follow moses , i. e. to live after his law and testament any longer , they are charg'd to forsake moses . secondly ( in particular ) they were forbidden to circumcise their children , that being indeed a business the jews still so doted on , that of all things they were unwilling to let it go , which by the way , shews us plainly , that there was nothing injoyned to be done to infants in the room of it , as some ( but simply ) conceive baptism was by peter act. . in order to their comfort , under the losse of the other ; for if there had , then surely it would have been specified , and paul would have preached thus to the jews , the more easily to weane them from that antient custome of circumcising their children ( specially considering how loath they were to part with it ) viz. you ought not to circumcise your children now , but instead thereof to baptize them , and this may well serve in liew of , and satisfie you under losse of the other , as being not so painful a service , but an easier sign , and that of better things then those promised in the covenant of circumcision : but he saies no such matter , if he had there would have been doubtlesse less ado , then it should seem there was , to bring the iews off from that practise of circumcising their infants , of which even after they believed they were so zealous , as not to hear of the abrogation of it without offence , for this would surely easily have contented and satisfied them , if they might have had their children baptized , as of old they were circumcised , but this doubtlesse made them so difficult to be perswaded to a forbearance of circumcising there infants , because they saw the gospel had no answerable dispensation belonging to their infants in the place of it . thirdly , in general again , they were forbidden to walk so much as after the manner of moses , for the word here rendred customs is [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the same that is used in the singular number . act. . . [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] which is there rendred after the manner of moses , which word [ after the customes ] or [ after the manner of moses , prohibits not onely all observation of those ordinances of the law it self , but also all walking after the same fashion , way and manner as the ordinances of the law were administred in , here 's not only an injunction of non-conformity to the law it self , but prohibition of all conformity to the manner of it : they are not onely taught not to do the same things that were done under moses , but also not to do under the gospel in the same way and fashion as of old : they are not onely bid not to circumcise children , but also not to walk after the manner of circumcision or after the customes of the law ; and therefore consequently not to baptize children now , which practise you of the priesthood not onely confesse to be agreeable , and conformable to that custom of circumcising children under the law , but also contend with all your might to have them baptized now , upon no other account mainly then this , upon which paul plainly seems to forbid it : for you say t was the custom and manner of old to circumcise children , therefore though circumcision it self be ceased , and baptism come in the room of it , yet thus far at least we must follow the fashion of the church of the jews , that as they then circumcised infants , so we in like manner must baptize them , but paul saies plainly , that we must forsake moses , and neither circumcise children now ( as of old they did ) not yet walk after the manner of circumcision , nor conform to such jewish customes , therefore we may not now baptize them , which to do your selves , as you contend so to have it , so confesse it to be after the manner of circumcision . whether therefore we shall believe him or you in this case judge ye . this , as it is of weight in it self , so it must needs be an argument ad hominem however , of force enough to stop the mouthes of all such as though they yield the law it self and circumcision to be ceased , yet will needs in point of priesthood , nationall churches , tythes , temples , outward administration , infants admission have all things at least after such a manner as the jews had , and specially to mr marshall and dr. holms , and all such as assert , that the very command that was given to circumcise infants of old , is vertually the command to us to baptize them : for thus saies not onely mr. marshall but dr holmes also out of ainsworth , p. . and . of his animadversions , fetching his argument for infant baptism as far as from the first book of moses called genesis thus . where there is a command for a thing never remanded , or contramanded . there the thing is still in force . but there is a command for signing the infants of a believer , with the sign of the covenant of grace , gen. . . . never yet remanded or contramanded . ergo signing believers children with the sign of the covenant of grace ( namely baptism now ) is still in force . the minor of which argument hath no lesse then three false assertions in it . for first , circumcision was not a sign of the covenant of grace ( as baptism now is ) nor did any further relate to the covenant of grace , then all other things under the law did viz. as types and shadows of the things to come ; but that covenant of which circumcision was given to be immediately a sign and token , was of that earthly canaan , made with abrahams fleshly seed onely : nor secondly , were they believers infants only , who were there commanded to be circumcised , but all the male infants and male servants also of every houshold of abrahams posterity by isaac onely , through their several generations , though the parents and masters were unbelievers , as the iews were ( for the most part of them ) in all ages , and both they and theirs neverthelesse to be circumcised , while that covenant of circumcision lasted . thirdly , whereas he saies that circumcision of infants ( for that 's it he falsely signs there with that name , viz. the sign of the covenant of grace ) was never yet remanded , or contramanded , it is as false as all the rest for we see plainly that it was remanded by that text i am yet in hand with , viz. act. . . babist . but baptism , which is the sign now was never remanded . baptist. i grant it is not , yet i le prove it to the faces of you all , that t is as much remanded , and contramanded , as ever it was commanded in gen. . sith then mr. marshall and dr holmes both say ( and so indeed you say all in effect ) that the command for circumcision of infants was a command to us to baptize them , and therefore ( unless we can shew that command to be remanded again ) it is still in force to bind us to baptize them , i dare be bold to tell them that if infant circumcision , and infant baptism were both commanded together in that one and the same precept gen. . . where god bidds abraham , and his seed to circumcise their children , then they are both uncommanded again in that one and the same prohibition , wherein god by the mouth of paul forbad the iews to circumcise their children any longer : i say if infants baptism were commanded in that very command for the circumcision of infants , then by analogy , for contrarior●m contraria est ratio , infants baptism must needs be remanded in the remanding of infants circumcision , the remanding of which by paul , among all the iewes that dwelt among the gentiles , where he mainly exercised his ministrie , is related plainly acts . . to conclude then though i utterly deny , as being well assured that nor dr. holmes nor mr. marshal neither have yet , nor ever will make it good , that the precept for circumcision , is so much as a virtual or consequential command to baptize infants , yet , if it be , i hope they will receive the same law they give , and rest satisfyed in it , that this countermand to circumcise infants , is a consequential and virtual countermand also to baptize them . by all which it appears still that there is not only no precept , but also plain prohibition enough of infant baptism . and as there is no precept , so neither is there any president of baptizing infants , as there was of circumcising them of old , from which practise of circumcision therefore there is no consequence to infant-baptism : there is not one example to be found any where upon the file of such a thing , as infant baptism , unless it be in your parish registers , and there indeed you may shew us , not only three or four hundred ( as vpon occasion of our calling for example , mr kentish in a discourse we had with him and mr glenden at swevenock said he could ) but as many as we can shew you of baptized believers in the scripture-register , viz. no less then three or four thousand : but this , though it satisfy them that live by the example of the world , yet will in no wise serve their turns that live by the example of the word , and therefore ms kents negative precept , of non express prohibition , and mr kentish his popish president of parish church admission may go both together , as things that can never pass for currant among the true christians of kent , though they pass for good proof of infant-baptism among most kentish christians , and priest-ridden people : as for the scriptures , there 's not so much as the least shew of any example of baptizing infants in them , for howbeit you draw in the several housholds , that were baptized , as that which you would fain seem to make somewhat of , to this purpose , yet how well they serve your turn that way judge ye , when as whether there were at all any one infant in any one of them , is confessed to be uncertain by your selves : so mr. blake , birth-priv . p. . and also a matter so immaterial that the cause doth not depend upon it at all ; so mr. marshall to mr tombes , p. . yet both he , and mr. blake and dr. featley p. . . and i think well-nigh every one that writes presses all these , housholds as a president , and forces from them all they have in them , and more too in proof of infant baptism . babist . we have examples not to be contemned of the baptism of whole housholds ( saies mr. blake ) and whether infants were there or no , as it is not certain , though probable , so it not material . the president is an houshold he that follows the president must baptize housholds , it appears not that there were wives there yet be that followes the president of baptizing housholds , must baptize wives , and so i may say ( quoth he ) servants if they be of the houshold . baptist. pray stay sirs , not to fast at first least you run your selves out of breath at last . is this a competent account upon which to baptize wives , and servants too , as well as infants , viz. if they be of the houshold , then tell me whether unbelieving wives , and unbelieving servants , may not be of the houshold , where the husband , and master believeth ; and if so must these also be baptized ? for shame call in that again , this is a pigge of the old sow , believers children are of the nations ( and i wonder what man , woman or child is not ) therefore they must be baptized . for shame also forbear to name those housholds any more , as presidents of infant-baptism , wherein your selves confesse that it is not certain that there were any infants , nor materiall whether there were any or no. babist . you shall find , saies mr. marshall , the gospell took place just as the old administration , by bringing in whole families together , usually if the master of the house turned christian , his whole family came in , and were baptized with him . baptist. just so sirs , and not a jot otherwise ? what not one way , nor other otherwise , then of old ? then first me thinks the wife and other females should not be actually baptized with him but rather virtually , be baptized in the husband ; for you say just so it was in the administration of circumcision . secondly , then i marvel in my heart how it came to pass that there was such quaerying whether believing husbands , and unbelieving wives , believing wives , and unbelieving husbands , believing servants , and unbelieving masters , &c. might not live together , and resolution given affirmatively that they might , if that there were whole families taken into the gospell all together . thirdly , but most of all i wonder how there was such quarrelling as there was , and christ said there would ever be in families about the gospel , that instead of imbracing it all together , they would be divided against themselves for the gospels sake , so that from thenceforth that the gospel began there should be five divided about it in one hou●e , two against three , and three against two , the fath●r against the son , a●d the son against the father . the daughter against the mother , and the mother against the daughter , the daughter in law against the mother in law , and the mother in law against the daughter in law , the husband against the wife , and the wife against the husband , so that he must be fain to keep the doors of his lipps from her that lies in his bosom , mich. . . and a mans foes ( for the gospel sake ) should be those of his own house luke . , , . and also such oppositions on earth in countreys , and nations , whereby christs disciples should still be dagged before the rulers , and governors , that under one pretence or other should still persecute the gospel till christ comming ( for till then the term of nursing fathers falls not to them ) which i●methodical , and tottered face of things , which was at the beginning of the gospel and is to be again towards the end , at the gospels resurrection from under popish superstition and mans tradition , that hath made it void , i have often seen , and do see daily in that true , though troublesome , way of the gospel we now walk in , but i never saw it in all my daies in that false , smooth , fine , fashionable , formal , forced , national gospel of yours , where whole families , countreys , and kingdomes . i. e. all the folk within such a dominion , are threatned into one mock-christian religion , whether they will or no : i wonder i say how all this should come to pass , if as of old the whole nation , and therein the whole families of the jewes were taken in at once to that covenant , so now ( and so you say all it is now ) whole nations , and therein whole families , and housholds without exception , are to be brought in and baptized all at once into the gospel . sure i am that though persons were so born christians to the popes , prelates , and presbyters crooked christianity , viz. of the flesh and of blood , and of the meer will of man , making lawes to compell them so to be , yet none are , by right , to be admitted to christs christendome , but such ioh. . . . as appear by faith to be born of god. babist . but me thinks ( as mr. marshal sates well ) the whole houshold of cornelius , the houshold of stephanus , the houshold of aristobulus , the houshold of cri●pus , the houshold of narcissus , the houshold of lydia , the houshold of the jaylor , these are examples for baptizing whole housholds ( and so consequently infants ) not to be contemned . baptist. i muse much why the houshold of caesar is not named as well as all the rest , but then mr. marshall had clearly contradicted his own assertion , viz. that whole families were taken in all at once : for there were many famous disciples and christians that imbraced the gospel in caesars houshold , though caesar was no saint nor christian himself . babist . it is not said the houshold of caesar , but they of caesars houshold . baptist. nor is it said the houshold of aristobulous , and narcissus , but them of aristobulus , and narcissus's houshold , which shewes that though with him these two masters were disciples themselves , yet but some of their housholds were disciples with them , yet he alledges these as examples of infants baptism , when in the scriptures nomination of them there is no nomination of infants , or baptism either . as for all the rest if they are not to be contemned , yet are they not to be confided in , unless there were much more then is expressed , at least implied to such a purpose , as exemplary proof for infants baptism : for if those whole housholds were all , and every one in them baptized , yet possibly no infant , for all that : for at this hour i know some whole housholds of baptized believers , that have not so much as an infant within them : yea one where there is or lately was both parent , children or grand children all baptized , and yet no infant nor infant baptism amongst them neither : and indeed howbeit the word [ whole houshold ] is no where named in the new testament in relation to this case , yet i do believe that whole housholds might sometimes be baptized then as well as now they are , from whence yet it will not follow that infants were baptized , yea whole thousands were baptized sometimes in one day , and yet no infants among them ; and that all these housholds you so often instance in , either had no infants in them , or if they had yet none baptized however , is evident enough to those that are not blind , if all the particular instances be examined . as for the iaylor , the apostles , who never used to preach to infants , spake to him the word of god , and to all that were in his house , the effect of whose preaching was not onely his rejoicing and belief , but the belief of all his house also , as well as the baptism of all his house together with him , act. . . . . and as for crispus , whose houshold is not reported to be baptized ( though no doubt they were so ) it s said that all his houshold believed in the lord as well as he , acts . . and as for such as were baptized with cornelius , which were more then they of his own houshold , that none of them were infants , t is evident , forasmuch as they were all both ready and capable to hear , and the holy spirit fell on them all in hearing the word , so that it was evident to peter , and as many as came with him , that they imbraced the glad tidings of the gospel ; upon the account of whose gladly receiving the word onely , and that apparently ; peter saies who can forbid water why these may not be baptized & c ? and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord , act. . . to . and as for stephanus's houshold , as they are said cor. . . to have been baptized , so are they all said to have addicted themselves to minister to the saints which are actions exclusive of infants cor. . . besides , if housholds must needs be taken as comprising infants , then that phrase salute the houshold of onesiphorus tim. . . must be taken so to , and what absurdity were it , to tell cradle-bed-infants , that paul the prisoner remembred his respects unto them : as for that of lydia , as its likely enough she then had none , so no man knowes whether ever she had any husband at all , if she had she might have no children , if she had children she might be an antient widow , whose children were grown up to believe with her , and besides that those of her houshold , whether children or servants or both , that were baptized with her , were not infants but adult disciples is evident , both by that compellation viz. the brethren ( a denomination never given to them ) and mostly because they were such as the apostles did actually comfort ( as we never find they did any infants in their infancy ) act. . . . by all which by that time you have laid it to heart , so little ground will be left you from all these instances for the baptizing of infants , that it may without crouding , be well written within the inside of a cherry-stone . and now whereas mr. marshal , more downrightly then rightly , denies that children did eat the passeover , which most undoubtedly they did . i demand of him why , if housholds be a term so conclusive of infants , when its said housholds were baptized , the same word doth not as much conclude children , when its said housholds did eat the passeover . babist . mr. marshal himself gives you good reason for that p. . of his sermon , the argument ( saith he ) from the term houshold , is not so strong to prove that infants did eat the passeover , as it is to prove they may be baptized , because no other scripture shews that the passeover doth belong to children , but we have other plain scripture proving that baptism belongs to infants , as well as grown men . baptist. i remember indeed that mr. marshall speaks thus : yea more ( and more absurdly then thus ) doth he speak p. . in his reply to mr. tombos viz. that we shall never find so good evidence out of the housholds eating the passeover , exod. . thereby to prove that women did eat the passeover as this proves that the infants of the house were baptized : but i must tell him first , that what influence other sciptures give toward the proof of either one or the other makes these never the stronger simply , and in themselves , so but that their particular strength and weaknesse stands the same , but secondly , how dares mr. marshall say there 's no other scipture save that , is not that one particular sentence wherein the word houshold is exprest as eating the paschal lamb enough ? specially when the next verse ▪ or the latter part of the same verse viz. exod. . . saies plainly , that it was to be taken and eaten according to the number of souls in the house , and by every one according to his eating , and if the family were too little to eat i● , they should join families together ; are not children exprest undeniably here ? are they not among the number of souls capable to eat , every one pro suo modulo , according to the measure of his eating and digestion ? and doth not this evince as much for women ? and whereas , for the exemption of women ( not as holding these did not eat it , but to secure himself the more from that deadly wound , which he is aware will light upon him if he grant that children did eat the passeover viz. our arguing upon him from thence to their right to the supper , acccording to his own arguing from infants circumcision to their baptism ) he brings this reason viz. because according to us they were not circumcised , and no uncircumcised person might eat the passeover , i have to or three things to say to it . first , that phrase , no uncircumcised person shall eat it , must either necessarily be understood concerning those uncircumcised ones onely , who were both capable of circumcision , and of whom circumcision was required , or else secondly ▪ ●t must be understood that the females were accounted as vertually circumcised in the males . thirdly , that very phrase that excludes all , and onely such uncircumcised ones from the passeover as were capable of circumcision , and of whom it was required , serves us against you thus far however as to include and enright all them to the passeover that were circumcised , and so if women did not ( as none need doubt but that they did ) yet all circumcised males , and cons●quently male children , as soon at least as they were capable to eat , were under a right to eat the passeover , and so as to prove you who deny them the supper , to be ingaged in the guilt of diminishing gods grace , and robbing poor infants of their right , as well as we , if your own arguments be true , viz. that to deny such dispensations to infants under the gospel , the answerable ones to which were dispensed to them under the law , is to lessen the grace of god in the gospel covenant , and make it straiter then it was under the law , and to bereave little children of what belongs to them . thus mr. marshal , where by the word housholds he should understand children as well as others , for his own ends he leaves them out ; but where by the word housholds such families are exprest , as in which he knows not that there was one infant , and may know ( if there were ) by the very places themselves , that they were excluded , yet there he winds things about to wind them in . by all this you see how little consequence is in the argument , children were circumcised . ergo they must be baptized . yea ( say you a●hford disputants in the tail of your argument ) or else the covenant of the gospel is worse to the spiritual seed of abraham , then it was to the carnall seed under the law . bus sirs ( to conclude this matter ) i say no , for if by spirituall seed you mean christians natural infants , i must ( as before ) cry shame on you still , for stiling them the spiritual seed of abraham , for if abrahams own semen carnis be not ( qua sic ) his semen fidei , are the semen carnis of believing gentiles abrahams semen fidei ? but if by his spiritual seed you mean such as are so indeed i. e. true believers , are this spiritual seed ere the worse because a meer fleshly seed , may not without faith be signed as heirs together with them ? how will you ever be able to make that good ? yet again ( to take your words so punctually as may be ) by mee● denial of baptism to your carnal seed , is the gospel made worse to abrahams spiritual seed , then the same gospel was to abrahams carnal seed of old ? no such matter , surely sirs , for the gospel was preacht but darkly to the jews of old , which were abrahams carnal seed , viz. onely in types , and figures , and shadows , and prophecies pointing out onely christum exhibendum , a saviour to come , but now it s preacht not only to believers ( that is abrahams spiritual seed ) but also to unbelivers , and to the whole world , and this more plainly too , and without a vail , holding forth salvatorem exhibitum , a saviour that hath already offered himself a ransom , and salvation by him in common to all , iews and gentiles , bond and free , even every creature that puts it not away from him , when ●endered to him , mark. . . . iohn . . so that the gospel is as good now to the full to all men in its administration as it was of old , and in many respects far better , though no infants at all be baptized , and so i have done with this argument , and come to the next . disputation . that opinion which destroyeth the comfort that the holy ghost administreth over the losse of our children by death , is a desperate and ungodly opinion . but such is the opinion of the anabaptists concerning little children . ergo , it is desperate and ungodly . the minor proved . it destroyes the hope that parents can have of the salvation of their children , for it makes them in no better condition then turks and pagans , and so our respondent himself professed , and when the apostle saith thess. . . i would not have you sorrow as those without hope , the grieved parents might reply ; what hope can we have of our child , who is in no better condition then the children of infidels ? what comfort can we have from the covenant made with , and the promises to our children & c ? therefore why should we not sorrow as those without hope ? our respondent replyed to this , that for ought he knew the children of turks and pagans might be all saved , and one replyed , perhaps he thought the devils might also , which was the end of the argument , there being no other answer given , nor to be expected . disproof . as i replied then , so i reply still , that for ought i know the children of turks and pagans ( dying in infancy ) may be all saved , yet will it not follow ( so much as probably ) that therefore in reallity , or in my opinion either , the devils may be saved also , which rude return is recorded by your selves to be then given , and stands for ever before the world , as the end of this your argument , and of your disputation also , there being to this assertion of mine viz. for ought i know the children , or dying infants of turks and pagans may be all saved , no other answer given by you in the dispute , nor yet since in your account , nor yet ever to be expected . but sirs , as great an extasie as you seem to be in about this position , yet i assure you if i had not learn'd it before , yet i have learn't it since from your very selves , who so strange at it , to be a thing not so strange as true viz. that the dying infants of turks and pagans may be all saved , and that the dying infants in your christendom are in no better condition then the dying infants of turks and pagans ( for so i said , and not as you here misrelate it , then turks and pagans themselves ) for if the dying infants of infidels are in no worse condition then your dying infants , then surely yours are in no better condition then they , and that they are in no worse condition then yours , nothing need hinder you more then me ( for ought i know ) from a belief thereof , unlesse you will refuse to believe your selves , who preach no lesse both to me , and all men no further off hence then in the next page , and the next save one above ; for do you not say there that unlesse we will violate christian charity , whose rule is praesumere &c. to presume every one to be in a good condition , till he appears to be in an evil , we must believe and hope all things of the little children of believers , since it cannot appear in infancy , that they have barred themselves , &c. and if so why not of the infants of turks , pagans , and infidels ? specially ( to speak in your own dialect ) since it cannot appear that these have any more than the other by any actual sin barred themselves , or deserved to be exempted from the general state of little children declared in the scriptures , which is this , viz. that of such is the kingdome of heaven . you see then how you teach us this precious piece of truth your selves p. . . therefore i hope you will learn it your selves , viz. that we are to hope well of such infants as have not by actual sin barred themselves from salvation , and allow us to teach it too in time , though hitherto you seem to be so far from giving way to us to teach the same , that when we speak well of infants , that have not by actual sin deserved exemption , and hope well of their salvation so dying , you so wretchedly forget it to be the doctrine your selves deliver , that with detestation you protest against it as abominable , as if there were as little hope to be had of the salvation of such dying infants , as are not born in christendome , as of the salvation of the very devils : but your first doctrine shall stand of the two for truth with me , from which , though you often contradict it your selves , i shal not be frighted by your bigg words , but still hope as well of one dying infant as another . secondly ( risum teneatis amici ? ) it is enough i think to set him on smiling who is never so deep in his dumps , to see what a most pat , and pertinent place of scripture you have here dragged in to the proof of infant baptism , viz. thes. . ▪ from whence ( as the wheel barrow goes rumble to rumble so ) it followes that infants are to be baptised : you might as well have said you may find it in the fifteenth of go look it , as send us to a text of so little tendency as this is of , to your present purpose : for what if we are not to mourn over the death of saints , and godly friends that sleep in jesus , as those that can have no hope of such friends as they see to dy ung●dly ( which is indeed the direct drift of the place ) will it therefore follow that all those infants , that dy without baptism , are universally , and unavoidably damned ? yet no less then this is here told by your selves to be your tenet , whilst you say our denial of baptism unto them destroies all hope of their salvation . but sirs is it so in earnest in your opinion , that no baptism no hope of salvation ? then thirdly , i have a treble charge to draw up against you . . of unchristian cruelty . . of point blank popery . . of clear contrariety both to your selves , and to those very authors you refer us to , to read and learn by , and also to the very professed doctrine of the church of england whereof you profe●s to be the ministers . first i must cry out oh the vnchristian cruelty that is hatched in your hearts , and here expressed , not onely to these thousands of infants , even of christians that happen to dy unbaptized , at least to whom baptism is at this day denyed to be dispensed , but specially to that numberless number of infants of turks , pagans , and infidels , to whom in infancy your own doctrine denies baptism , as well as ours , and consequently ( if your own bloody tenet of no baptism no salvation to dying in●ants were true ) all hope of their salvation . t is your common course to clamor and cry out against us , as having no christian charitie , as being most inveterate , and cruel enemies to infants , only for denying the baptism of those few , to whom you dispense it , as well as those myriads of little ones , to whom your selves deny it together with us : but i appeal to all people , who are not already so perfectly prejudiced against us by your prating , as to stand resolved to believe nothing but your blind dictates , to judge between us whether we are so cruelly opinioned towards infants , who barely deny them baptism , believing the salvation notwithstanding of all that dy in infancy without it , or your selves rather , who deny that dispensation to all infidels infants , which are twenty to one in the world , and yet hold that dispensation so necessary to salvation , that there is no hope of other then damnation to whomsoever it is denyed , whereas in confutation of you out of your own mouths ( if your own sense of mat. . be true , where you contend to have the word little ones taken literally for infants ) christ himself saies there , that it is not the will of my father that so much as one of these little ones should p●rish . secondly , oh the palpable papistry which is here openly professed by you , who yet would seem to protest against every inch of it , for it is one of the grossest pieces of popery to hold no salvation to infants without baptism , and one great controversie between them and protestants ; yet you give the cause thus far , as to grant it to be necessary , and effectual to salvation of infants ( whether ex opere operato or no , as you are silent in it here , so pray tell us another time ) that there need be neither doubt nor fear of such dying infants damnation to whom it s dispensed , and can be no hope of the salvation of such as dy without it , or at least to whom doctrinally it is denied . thirdly , oh the wretched contradiction , that is here given . . to your selves , who say above p. . that it is breach of christian charity to presume otherwise then well of such little infants , of whom it cannot appear , that by any actuall sin they have barred themselves or deserved exemption from salvation , and such are all infants in infancy , whether baptized or unbaptized , whether of christians or heathens ; and yet here you say , there is no hope of the dying infants of infidels , and in case we deny baptism to them as little hope of the salvation of such dying infants , as are born of christian parents also : hay-ho ! i dare say the dog is not good mutton , if this be not uniform divinity . secondly , not only to other writers on this subject , as mr. cotton , who p. . of his book called , the way of the churches in new-england , saith , one may remain a member of the invisible church of the first born , when yet he hath neither part nor portion , nor fellowship in the particular flock and visible church of christ iesus ; which shewes ( to the confutation of you , and mr. baxter also , who pins the salvation of infants so much upon their churchmembership and baptism ) that infants may be supposed to be out of the visible church , and yet be hoped to be in a state of salvation also ; i say not only to other writers , but to the writers your selves will us to peruse , viz. calvin , and vrsin . for first , vrsins catechism , ( as insufficient as it is to prove infant baptism ) furnishes us with enough wherewith to confute this unsavory stuff you have here recorded , viz. the hopelesness of the salvation of such infants , to whom baptism is denyed , whose words are these viz. s the want of the sacrament doth not damn persons , that dy without it , if those persons do not contemn it ( and whether infants in infancy can possibly be said to contemn it though their parents permit them to dy without it , needs no great explanation ) again christ doth not ere the more deny salvation to whom baptism is denyed . secondly calvins institutions confesses at large that baptism is not so necessary to salvation as you seem to make it : his words are these li. . c. . s. . t what mischief that opinion brings viz that baptism is necessary to salvation , few consider , and therefore they take the less heed in asserting it , for where that opinon grows on once , that they are all damned that dye unbaptized , our conditiis worse then that of the iews , for hereby christ may be thought to come not to fulfill , but to abolish the promises , if the promise which then was efficacious of it self to salvation before the eighth day , be not now available thereto , without the administration of the sign . and a little below sect. . he saith thus : infants are not shut out of the kingdom of heaven that dye before baptism , therefore there will no small injury be done to the covenant of god , unlesse we rest in that alone , as if it were not valid enough of it self , when its efficacy depends neither on baptism , nor any other matters accessary to it . by all this it may be easily perceived not onely who they are that streiten the grace of god under the gospel , and make it narrower then of old under the law , viz. not our selves ( as you feign ) but your selves , who say denial of baptism to infants destroyes the hope , that else might be had of their salvation , but also what an individuum vagum your pamphlet is , wandering and swarving clear aside from the stars , you direct us to for light , and would seem to steer your own course by , thirdly , to the doctrine of the church of england , which though it own baptism as a sign and ( falsely enough ) as a seal of the covenant of grace that may lawfully at least be dispensed to infants , yet rejects that tenet however , as spurious , and popish that makes salvation and damnation depend so much up-the dispensation , or denial of it to infants , that there 's no hope of the salvation of those infants that dye without it : witnesse rogers his analysis of the . articles , of the catholick doctrine of the church of england p. . we condemn ( saith he ) the opinion of the russeis , that there is such a necessity of baptism , that all that dye without the same are damned , we may see how well the church of england is serv'd among you , whose own ministers swerve from the sense of those articles she makes them sweare to . if you mean that a denial not de facto , but de jure i. e. not of baptism it self to infants , but of their right to baptism damns them , and that doctrinally onely , not really , they dying without it , you might have said so then if you had pleased , but your blunt delivery of your selves here , without any modification of your meaning , makes it out , as if you meant to fright the whole countrey to baptize all their infants in all hast , as ever they mean to have any hope they shall be saved : besides if they be but doctrinally damned , and not really by the denial of baptism to them the matter is so much the lesse , for as they are not one straw the better , whether living or dying in infancy , if they have it , so they cannot be ( as to salvation ) one straw the worse , if they want it , and die without it , and then what need such thundring out of terror to the parents , as if there were no way but one , that is damnation to their dying infants out of hand ; if they do not see to the baptizing of them in infancy before they dye ? moreover , if it be doctrinally to damn all infants to deny their right to baptism , then how damnable is your doctrine to that innocent age , who deny it to no lesse then to one viz. all the dying infants of unbelievers ? but the best on t is though your doctrine is so desperate and ungodly as to declare nought but damnation to all such , as the pope doctrinally damnes i. e. all that are not born within the pale of the church , yet there is salvation enough for these infants , as well as for the other in christ jesus , whereby till they deserve exemption by actuall transgression , they may be saved really , though with you they are doctrinally damn'd , and with us as well as you deny'd to have , or so much as to have any right at all to baptism . thus sirs i have done with your deep disputation , there remaining no more but a certain magisterial moderation or determination , in which you are your own carvers , taking upon you to manage it by the mouth of him , whose onely arguments all these are , in which piece of your pamphlet i shall briefly take notice of some passages wherein you speak very fairly of your selves , very fowly , falsly and injuriously of your respondent , very conrradictorily to what you said before , very ignorantly of the word , very impertinently as to the proof of faiths being in , and baptisms belonging to those infants you plead for , more then those you plead against , and then come to consider your review , you speak as followeth . determination . since it hath been proved that little infants have the holy ghost &c. ( here let there be a recapitulation of the former arguments ) therefore baptism is not to be denied unto them . detection . doubting belike whether any stander by can find in his conscience to give so good a testimony , as you afford , and such ample approbation to your arguments , as you desire and they deserve not , you ingrosse the dijudication of the disputation between yourselves and me , into your own clutches , and then claw your selves in the face of the world , and bestow such commendatories upon your simple shuffles as if it were proved , and put out of doubt thereby that believers infants have the spirit , faith , holinesse , and such apparent right both to heaven and baptism as no creatures have in the world besides them , but having shewed how shallowly , fillily and slenderly you have argued all this above , i decline , detest , and disclaim this your positive dijudication , and make my appeal from the high commission chair of you clergy men , who for ages and generations have sate judges in your own cause , unto the people , whom you have ever mis-led by your blind guidance , to judge between us , among whom not they who have so long commended themselves ( as orthodox ) will be approved at last , but those whom the lord commendeth . determination . if any doubt be raised concerning particular infants , the judgement of charity will cast that out , especially considering no other judgement can be past upon those that are adulti . detection . that the judgement of charity concerning faith , the holy spirit and right to the kingdom can in infancy be past no more upon believers infants , then upon all infants is told us so plainly by your selves , that if you be not resolved that you will never learn any thing that is truth , from your selves you must needs see it as well as we , since you say . p. . there is no discovery of the habit of faith , but by the asts , and none by the acts in any infants at all in infancy , and that the spirit is neither bound to work it in all the children of christians , nor barred from working it in any children of infidel● , and p. . that the judgement of charity must so pass , that we are to presume well of all , who by actuall sin have not barred themselves , and deserved exemption , and that there 's better ground to build a judgement of charity concerning faith , and the spirit in adultis , then infantibus , viz. profession and visible manifestation by the fruits and acts , and a better judgement , then that of charity viz. of certainty , is to be had of adult persons right to baptism , we seeing them certainly to professe faith ( as infants cannot ) which whether they deceive us in that profession or no , is clear ground to baptize them on , this i have shewed so sufficiently above , that there needs no more be said of it here . determination . our respondent hath confessed that ishmael who was that carnall seed of abraham , yet had right to the seal of the gospel covenant circumcision , and that the spirituall seed and their children have under the gospel , as good right to the seal thereof , which is baptism . detection . o rare and base ! what again sirs , what again ? i professedly denyed baptism to be a seal at all ( witnesse my then disavowing the scotchmans proceedings in the dispute of baptism under the term of initial seal ) i also denied circumcision to be the seal of the gospel covenant , or that it was set to ishmael under such a notion , yea , you your selves are my witnesses but three pages above that i said , circumcision was a seal to abraham only , and not to his posterity , and yet here again , ( as well as before ) you turn false witnesses against me , and will needs fasten this upon me for a farewell , that i grant all for truth , that your selves ignorantly assert in these particulars , and not content therewith ( a matter more monstrous then all the rest ) you say i confess not only abrahams spirituall seed themselves , i. e. believers , but their children also to have under the gospel as good right to baptism , as the seal of it , as they , the direct contrary to which is the position i stood then to evince , yea which i both then did , do still and ever shall , till you disprove it better than you have yet done , maintain against you or else wherin do we differ ? sirs , you should have done well to have expressed your minds in plain right down english , and then the scope , sum and scum of them would have risen , and appeared thus , viz. we the disputers and scribes of the ashford disputation having more mind that victory then verity should befal us , and having fi●st given and granted to our selves the priestly prerogative , of being sole judges and determiners of that daies disputation between us and our respondent , do thereupon determine , and by these our letters , pattents , give and grant the cause , and the day to be wholly ours , and least it should be hardly confessed , and yielded to by fair means , we will have it by fowle , and wrest it from our respondent as fully granted by him , though we know it was not , and take it from him pro confesso by force , even by forged cavillation , and false accusation , and therfore know all men by these presents , that though it be most expresly denied by our respondent that infants of believers have right to be baptized , yet it is most expresly confessed by him , that infants of believers have good right to be baptized : had you said thus , well indeed might the world have cryed shame on it more then now but in effect it had been but the proper paraphrase of what you have more closely , and covertly presented it with in this place . wherefore , sirs , i do you and the world to wit once more , to prevent any ones being charmed into a misbelief of me by your juggles , how little i concur with you in these things , and to say no more then what i have shewed above , viz. first , that baptism is no seal at all of the covenant of grace , but a sign of it onely . secondly , that believers infants have no right at all to be signed with it in infancy . thirdly , that circumcision was no seal of the gospel covenant , but a sign only , or token between god and israel of the old covenant , concerning the land of canaan , and some other particular pe●sonal promises , and priviledges pertaining to that people ( though it was a type of circumcision in the heart , where with abrahams spiritual seed are circumcised , and thereby inrighted to the heavenly inheritance . ) fourthly , that it was no seal at all to any but abrahams person , and that in another sense then the word seal is accepted in with you ; fiftly , that it was dispensed to ishmael under no such notion as a seal of the gospel covenant , but meerly as he was a male of abrahams house , on which account it was set to every male born in his house , or bought with his money ; though visibly an heir to neither the earthly , nor the heavenly canaan , as wicked servants were not , and no doubt to his sons by keturah also , as well as to ishmael , though both he and they before known to abraham to be no heires of that covenant of circumcision , which god gave him in gen. . and told him that he would establish that with isaac only gen. . . . determination . it is further added for satisfaction how children have faith , viz. in semine , radice , munere , habitu , actu primo , not in fructu , folio , usu , actu secundo , in a word , they have the habit , and the seed , not ths exercise and fruit of it . detection . you asserted above p. . from mat . . that little ones do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere believe in christ , which phrase [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] as also [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] &c. to believe , to drink , to eat , to read , to teach , to hear &c. do ever expresse productionem potentiae in actum , not simply the habit , facultie , gift , inclination , power , seed &c. but the very second act , the use , the fruit , the putting forth of these faculties into their several acts , and exercises , this ( as all well studied schollars know ) so your selves cannot but acknowledge , that to believe , is not only to have faith but to act faith , and it cannot properly be said of any that they do believe , but such as ( quoad nos ) do so indeed . as for such as are onely in potentià ad fidem , though proximâ , and s●ch as are in capacity to believe , and do not , they cannot be said by wisemen to believe , for then all men may be said to believe , who have facultatem , munus credendi , as well as intelligendi , ratiocinandi , eligendi &c. though they never do it : i appeal therefore to your own consciences , whether your saying that infants do believe , and yet cannot act , nor shew that faith by any fruit of it , hath not in it plus idiotae quam idiomatis , and be not as palpable a contradiction as can fall from mens tongues or pens . determination . their not declaring of it themselves can no more conclude against infants faith , then against their reasonable soul. detection . the reasonable soul is in them universally , essentially , in the highest degree necessarily , and praedicable concerning them de omni , per se , & qua sic , as being de esse constitutive , for animarationalis est forma hominis , quae dat esse , the very essential form of mankind , so that he can as easily cease to be , as to be without it , therefore there can be no conclusion against that in any infants , sith they are no longer then while they have it , but faith in christ is ( according to your selves ) habi●us ad placitum a deo infufus only , not innatus , and is in them neither ( qua sic ) nor essentially nor universally in all , nay but in a few infants , by your own confession , and you know not which neither , for though you do altum sapere so far sometimes , as to conclude it is in infants of believers yet you do insipere fo far sometimes as to undote that again , and say the spirit is neither bound nor barred in his working of it in these or those , so that till they are at yeares there ean be no conclusion made p. . therefore me thinks you should blush at this illiterate , and indigested assertion , viz. that there can be no more concluding against the being of faith in them , then their having reasonable souls . secondly , if from their non declaring it there can be no more concluding against their having faith , then against their reasonable souls , then there is no more concluding against the being of faith in one infant more then its being in another , or against its being in unbelievers infants than in those of believers , for the reasonable soul is in all , even in the infants of unbelievers , as well as of believers . secondly , if their non-declaring it be no ground to conclude against their having faith , yet i am sure it is ground enough to bar you from concluding that they have it , specially that this infant hath it , more then that , for though you confess there can be no conclusion made till you see the fruits of their faith , yet that is the bold conclusion you undertake to make . fourthly , whether we can upon its non appearance conclude against their having faith yea or no , yet upon its non appearance we may boldly conclude against their baptism , and admittance into the visible church here on earth , into which not an invisible habit of faith gives right , but an outward appearance , and profession to believe , witness not my self only , who am of little credit with you , but mr. cotton also , none of the least of your champions that appear for infant baptism , whose very words p. . . of his way of the churches in new england these are , viz. it is not the seed of faith , nor faith it self , that knitteth a man to this or that visible church , but an holy profession of the faith , and professed subjection to the gospell of christ in their communion . be ashamed therefore of such a monstrous position , that persons not appearing to believe in christ can conclude no more against their faith in christ , then against their reasonable souls . determination . the seed of faith sown , after discovers it self when the season comes . detection . yet so audacious are you , that whilest it is but in the seed at most by your own confession , as in infancy , to attempt a discovery of it to all the world to be in these infants , viz. of believers , and not in those , viz. of infidels before the season . determination . the testimony of scripture concerning their faith , and the proofs taken from thence are equivalent to the best testimony , and profession of any man concerning his own faith . detection . o sapientia ! as if the scripture did as punctually , personally , and particularly testify concerning this and that individual infant which you sprinkle , that it doth believe , and those infants that you deny to sprinkle , that they do not believe , as men at years do to us by their words , and works , that they do , or do not believe . secondly , there is but one testimony of scripture alledged by your selves , where you say it s asserted of infants that they do believe , viz. mat. . . and that ( as i have shewed ) . first , speaks not of little ones in your sense , but of little ones in christs sense viz. believes indeed , and his disciples , whom he stiles little ones also a little above matth. . . a place where we read not that any infant was among them . secondly , that scripture testifies of those of whomsoever it speaks in actu secundo , that they do believe : and so to do your selves yield is impossible for infants ; therefore it cannot be meant of them . thirdly , if it did speak of little ones properly so called , so as to say they do believe , yet that they were believers , and not unbelievers infants is a thing which a wise man may fumble himself times over and become a fool before he once find it so to be . fourthly , 't were but a prosopopeia however . determination . if it be further askt , how faith is bread in them ? it is answered by the holy spirit , whose waies are inscrutable , who ties not himself to means works where he will , and how , quo magistro , quam cito discitur quod docet ? saith cyprian . detection . and yet you scrue so farr into the inscrutable waies of the spirit in this matter as , though he works where he will , and how , both to bind and bar him , and to determine both where he doth , and must work faith , and where he doth not , and must not viz. in believers infants , not in infants of infidels , else why do you refuse to baptize the one upon non-appearance of faith , and yet plead for the baptism of the other , as in whom it appears to you so clearly , that by argument you say you make it more plainly appear to any one , that will not deny scripture and reason that they have faith , then the profession of any one particular person that ever i baptized , can make it appear of himself ? for thus you peremptorily conclude p . and then as prettily unconclude it all ore again p. . saying , unlesse it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit of faith , what have not , for the working of the spirit is not known to us , there can be no conclusion made : why also do you say the promise is to believers and all their seed ? which is as much as to say , god is bound upon his word and covenant unto these children , not unto others , and therefore must be as good as his word ( for i hope you all agree that god will not lie ) p. . though i confesse p . you unsay all this ore again , and grant that he is not bound to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor bard from working it in any of the children of infidels : o fine whifles ! determination . if it be inquired how faith can be said to be in them without their consent ? the answer is as well as originall sin , to which they never consented , and that christ is more powerful to salvation , then adam to condemnation . detection . that original sin is in infants so far as it is in them without their consent , i do not deny , it being a matter more imputative , as i have shewed above , then inhaesive , and that christ is more powerful to salvation , then adam was to condemnation is an undoubted truth , which makes me believe otherwise then once i did , viz. that whatsoever befel whomsoever meerly by adams sin is as universally , as well in respect of the subject made miserable thereby viz. whole mankind , as of the misery befalling that subject , by the coming of the second adam taken away : for which tenet i could give more proof then you can easily disprove , were it not besides the argument i am in hand with , but that faith is in any persons without the consent of those in whom it is , is a lesson that i shall never consent to learn while mine eies are open , i have found many divines defining faith by the very term of an assent or consent unto the things promised , preacht , profered or propounded to us to believe , and making assent or consent such a necessary ingredient to the very essence , being or nature of faith , that faith cannot be faith without it , thus mr. baxter your fiercest fellow-fendent of infants baptism , the very essence of faith , saith he p. . lyeth in assenting that christ is king and saviour , and consenting that he be so to us . yea he denies them to have any true faith who do not thus assent and consent , but of all the faiths that ever i have heard , or read of , and of all the kinds of believing that ever were broacht in the brains of men , i never yet heard of a believing of things whether one will or no , i mean a real believing , and not such a feigned forced faith , as that of those who must say they believe as the church believes , when happily they know not what that is , nor did i ever hear of believing without assenting to the things believed since i was born , till i met with this figment of yours , nor ever shall again , i am perswaded while the world stands from any men , but such as having uttered one absurdity , are resolved rather then to recant it , to uphold it with an worse then it self . determination . it is further added , that there is no other way revealed for the salvation of little infants but by justification , and that by faith : that way of the presentment of the righteousness of christ without faith is a figment of the anabaptists without ground or reason from scripture , the covenant of the gospel being the righteousness of faith . to which i contradictorily reply , that there is another way revealed for the salvation and justification of little infants from all the guilt that lies upon them in infancy , which is no other then that which comes upon them for the sin of adam onely , and from all that mischief which comes on them onely , meerly and simply for that sin , then that way of faith , and that is the presentment of the righteousnesse of christ to god on their behalf without faith , and this way is no figment of the anabaptist , as you no-baptists do foolishly fancy , but that which hath such strong ground and reason from scripture , as you will never overthrow while you live , although to men at years that have acted transgression in their own persons , and are capable to act faith and other good as well as evil , the gospel is granted to be a covenant that gives righteousnesse by christ in no other way then that way of faith and obedience to him . we usually put cloaths upon infants , but men put their clothes on themselves , and so must we put on christ by faith in order to justification , when we come to years of discretion gal. . . and not before . i know the multitude of scriptures that speak in general , or at least in such indefinit terms , as are in sense equivalent to universal , concerning salvation to all them that believe , and nothing but condemnation to all them that believe not , as mark . . . iohn . . . . . . . . act. . . act. . . rom. . . . . . . . . . . . a most monstrous mistake of all which , as also of the whole scripture makes you miserably misbelieve this matter viz. the way that all dying infants are saved in , for you deem , or rather dream that the lord by these expressions , whosoever believeth in me shall never dye , he that believeth not shall be damned , he that believeth not on the son shall not see life , &c. delivers his will and testament not onely concerning persons at age , but concerning infants in their very infancy also : whereas if you divines had not divin'd your selves to very dotage , you could not but understand , that little infants are not intended in any of these , or any other places that hold out faith as the way of our salvation : for do but judge in your selves , were it not shameful senslessnesse to read thus out of those places viz. god so loved the world &c. that whosoever infants in infancy as well as men believe in him should not perish , but have everlasting life , those infants that do believe on him are not condemned , but those infants that believe not , are condemned already , and why ? because they have not believed in the name of the onely begotten son of god : and this shall be the condemnation of infants as well as men , that light and life is come to them , and yet infants believe it not , neither will come unto christ that they might have life , but but love darknesse more then light , because their deeds are evil ? for thus you may read it , if infants as well as men be there meant : and so were it not sottish to read thus out of rom. . . it was not written for abraham onely that faith was imputed to him for righteousnesse ▪ but for infants also , to whom it shall be imputed , if they do believe on him , that raised up iesus our lord from the dead &c. so would it sound any whit savourly in the ears of one that 's of a sound judgement to read mark. . . . so as to understand infants together with others viz. go preach the gospel to every creature , who ere believeth , and is baptized shall be saved , but whoever believes not , man or woman , old or young , infant or suckling shall be damned ? would not this grate harshly upon charitable ears ? but surely infants are not spoken of here , nor are they in any other scripture ( for ought i can find ) with the best sight i have , where faith is spoken of , as the condition on our part , without which nothing is to be expected but condemnation : i am sorry sirs to see you clergy men cloath your selves with such darke conceits , and confusednesse of mind , as not to know of whom , and to whom things are spoken in the word , nor whom in general the scriptures , you professe to be so profound in , concern and preach to , and i beseech you be not too wise in your own conceits to learn one lesson at least from him that is a fool among you for christs sake viz. whereas you say infants must believe , or not be saved , the scriptures declaring no other way to salvation but faith in christ , that the scriptures were written only for our instruction , that are at years to understand them , and not for the use and instruction of infants in infancy in the way of life , the scriptures were given as a coppy of the testament , and the will of god concerning men and women , to declare to them what he requires of them , and in what way he would have them to wait upon him , in order to the attaining of that salvation he hath purchased by the blood of christ , and will freely confer on them for his sake viz. the way of faith , repentance , baptism , supplication , submission , self-denial , obedience both active and passive , perseverance therein to the end , and in a word attendance to the law of christ the voice of that prophet , that he hath now raised up , in all things , or else to have no part among his people , from all which conditions and performances ( i say from every of them as well as any one of them ) from believing as well as obeying in baptism , or any other part of his will , or any other works of god under the gospel , among which belief is a chief one iohn . . . little infants ( as being yet uncapable subjects to obey in any of these ) are universally exempred in their infancy : otherwise i dare a vouch no dying infants in the world shall ever be saved ; for can they do any of these things in infancy ? so such as are to be baptized are called to do , act. . . and who ever so doth shall be saved , and whoever doth not shall perish , ier. . , if the way wherein men are to be saved must be walkt in by all infants too , in order to their salvation , then wo to all infants that die in non-age , for alas how shall infants call on him , in whom they have not believed , and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not yet heard , and how shall they hear without a preacher , and who can preach to them before they can understand ? rom. . . . so then they cannot believe , for faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the word of god , some way or other outwardly as well as inwardly preached . babist . the spirit here speaks de subjecto capaci onely viz , of the way how men come by faith , and not of the way wherein infants have it , and t is confest that faith in adultis , in them that are capable to hear and understand is begotten by this means of hearing , but not so in infants who cannot hear , the spirit is not tyed to work by means in little infants , to the bringing of them to the faith , as he doth in men , but without the outward hearing of the word he works saith in little children . baptist. this same that you now say fits us very well to you ward again , when you say justification comes by faith , for we grant that adultis , to them that are capable to act faith , justification comes by faith , nor shall they by any means obtain it who are capable to believe , and yet believe not , but not so to infants who cannot believe , the spirit is not tied to work by means in little infants to the justification or bringing of them to salvation , as he doth in men , but by the righteousnesse of christ imputed without obedience in baptism or faith either he saves them in nonage , and farther that they cannot believe , which is properly ( as i shewed before ) not onely to have , but act faith in christ , your selves tell us saying , they have not the use , the second act , the exercise , the fruit of it , and so do not believe , and so must according to your sense of scripture , if the word speak of them , be cast into the lake of fire rev. . . but further grant they could have faith in both the habit , and act of it also , yet can they not obey christ in other things , which are required necessarily to salvation in the word of the gospel , at least concomitanter , et consecutivè , as well as faith it self , they cannot hear christs voice in all things , they cannot confess christ before men , nor to be come in the flesh , they have not crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts of it , they cannot deny themselves , and take up their cross and follow christ , nor hate father and mother and life for him , nor keep his commandments , nor abide in his doctrine , and many such like things , all which the gospel saies as universally , whosoever doth not , as well as whosoever believes not cannot be his disciple mat. . luke . is not christs gal. . . hath not god iohn . is a lyar , and shall not enter into the holy city iohn . . rev. . . . . . is a deceiver , and an antichrist iohn . shall be denyed by christ , yea punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of christ , for non obedience to the gospel , thes. . . so that if the scriptures speaking , of the waies and means of salvation be to be understood as the terms , and conditions on which dying infants shall be saved as well as men , and without which they must be damned , then all dying infants must perish contrary to your sense of mat. . . who take the little ones there for infants , for it s said there it is the will of my father that not one of these little ones should perish , put the case therefore that infants could believe , yet their case would be little the better ( as to salvation ) so long as still they must be short of shewing their faith by other good works , without which faith is not saving nor worth a straw , for what would it profit if infants could go so far , as to say they have faith , and yet have not works , can faith save them ? iam. . . . no , its dead and helpless for as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also . therefore the body of scripture is to be understood , as spoken concerning men and women , and the means and way of their salvation ; and not of infants . babist . yea when the word speaks of works of holiness , self denyal , suffering , mercy , &c. as the way to life , which infants cannot do , it excepts them from the doing thereof , as no capable subject , and not from the salvation nevertheless , nor yet doth at except infants when it speaks of faith . baptist. is not faith a work as well as repentance , and the rest ? yea the main and principal work of the law of christ , i. e. the gospel iohn . . . secondly , is it not as difficult a work for infants to believe in christ , as to obey christs voice in other things , and are they not still as uncapable a subject to do that , as to do any more things that are required ? why then not exempted from that for the sake of their incapacity , as well as from other things ? thirdly , if the spirit doth go extraordinary waies to work at all about the salvation of infants ( as you must confess he must ) and brings them to it without , and besides the ordinary means , he brings men by , why will you tie , and limit him him more to the ordinary way , and meanes of faith , then of obedience in other matters , as repentance , self denyal &c , as to their salvation , seeing he must go out of the road , and tract , in the saving of them , wherein he saves men , may be not as well save infants without faith , without which he will save no man , as without self deniall , and suffering , and confessing of christ , &c. without which he will save no man ? fourthly , specially since infants are not mentioned as meant a jot more in the places that speak of salvation by faith , then in the places that speak of salvation by obedience in all things ; for as it is said , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , and be that believeth not shall be damned , ( infants no where expressed or meant there ) so t is said as universally he is the author of all them that obey him , and he shall take vengeance on all them that obey him not , and cut them off that hearken not to his voice ( infants no way expresly excepted as not meant there . ) the scriptures therefore are still to be understood de subjecto capaci , when they promise or threaten things on conditions , and terms of faith , unbelief , and other good and evill works , as confessing and denying christ , and exclusively of infants , where infants cannot possibly perform them ; for as when it s said he that works not let him not eat , infants are no where excepted , yet are not by the spirits appointment to starve , though they work not , neither are they meant there because they cannot work , and as under law , when it was said , cursed is he that continues not in every thing written therein , and do this and live , the way wherin men were to live or dy was set forth by those words , and not the way wherein infants should be cursed or blessed , accordingly as they were or were not found therein in infancy ; so analogically when it 's said under the gospel the just must live by faith and he that believes not shall be damned , and christ in flaming ●ire shall render vengeance to him that obeys not the lord , &c. it is to be understood as spoken of the waies , wherein men walking shall live or dy , and not at all of the way wherein he saves or damnes dying infants , for that stands still by good reason from scripture that they being uncapable to do , what on mans part is required to life , i. e. to act belief ( unless wee l hold they are all damned dying in nonage , as you pittiful merciless men hold that to one are , but we bloody baptists that none at all are ) we must hold them to be excused from the terms of believing , and presented righteous before the father , by the righteousness of christ without faith , and therefore though i see i shall meet with this argument again in your review , where i le talke with it a little more , yet i le conclude here just contrarily to what you conclude with , viz. that the tenet of no justification nor salvation for dying infants by the righteousness of christ without faith in their own persons , is a meer figment of the arch-anti-baptists , i. e. the priests , without ground and reason from scripture , whereby ( as by ●ome shew of reason ) to flatter men on to a continuance in that false way of bringing infants to be sprinkled , that so their kingdome and priesthood many continue to spread its black wings over whole provinces and parishes at once , and to submit them to their arbitrary jurisdiction , as well a ware that it can stand no longer then the other , for once give over christening the whole parish infancy , and then farewell that parish posture , which the pope set up in all christendome some years ago , yea then down falls the parochial-church-steeple-house , priest-hood , pay and all . amen so be it . the second part of anti-babisme . or a review of their review . i come now to take notice of the second piece of your pamphle● a thing made up of several sorts of matter , and trickt together into one slender tractate , and entituled a review of the arguments used in the disputation , my animadversion of which i answerably stile a re-review or review of your review . in which review of yours i find some things said , and disputed over again , which are before disputed in the disputation ; somethings ( as it were ) unsaid , and undisputed ore again , which are disputed before in the disputation ; and somthings , viz. here a little , and there a little disputed , which the disputation disputes not before at all . so that the business ( if you view it one way ) stands ternal , i. e. brancht out into heads , barking all like those of cerberus against the light : but if you review and behold it another way it seems to stand quaternall or quartered out into four heads , acting all in their several turns against the truth , viz. first , a preaamble or march towards the battle , p. , . secondly , an onset , or charge given by a forlorn hope of three worthies , or choice arguments , whereof the first is a freshman , that was not in the last dispute , the two last old souldiers that are bold to fac● about and fight us again , though wounded well-nigh to death in the last battel , p. . . . . thirdly , a very hot dispute or reply against reason , and its forces storming your strong hold of infant-baptism , or an earnest encounter with such objections , as reason ( saie you ) makes against it , all which you make a puff at , and attempt to vanquish in seven or eight several repul●es p. . . . . fourthly , a bugbear bringing up the rear of the battel , horribly dressed , and horned with seven horns , all pushing and poking against the truth , on purpose to to fright men from being baptized , and make such as are ready to turn to the truth to tremble , and forsake its tents ; alias a warning , or morter-piece charged with a number of small shot , viz. the horrid sins this wretched errour of the anabaptists , alias tha● odious error of owning the truth involves men in ) that more hits then hurts them that have the spiritual armour on , presented and discharged to scare the christian souldier , i. e. the christian reader ( if possible ) out of his christian wits and senses . thus does this squadron of militarie matter made and raised in defence of infant-baptism divide it self , and play its part : against which notwithstanding we shall ( god willing ) adventure forth in the strength of christ , give battel to it , and to each part of it successively as it lies in order . review . there might innumerable arguments be brought both from scripture and reason for the confirming of the practise of the church of god from the beginning , whose authority alone , if it were of any esteem with the adversaries thereof , were enough to have silenced these disputes , at least to have laid the itch , and quenched the heat of them , in baptizing the children of believing parents , but as the hast of the disputation did forbid the ministers then to be so thoroughly provided with them , modesty doth now to insert them here ; therefore the christian reader is desired to peruse calvins institutions , ursins catechism , and dr. featley's book upon this subject , where he shall be thorowly furnished . besides that opinion of ovid , etsi non prosint singula , multa juvant , what ever it may carry of credit in other causses , ought to have but little in this , where we trust not in multitude nor measure by number ; but substance and weight of arguments are the foundation of our faith , the other are for pomp and victory , these onely for satifaction and verity . whosoever thou art that desirest to be grounded in the truth , examine diligently and understand these three arguments following , which are but the same reviewed that were used in the disputation , and thou shalt be able , being confirmed thy self thorough the grace of god , to strengthen thy brethren , whose faith is every where assaulted in these miserable dates , by the watchfulness and cunning insinuation of the adversary : nor are these three commended unto thee , as if among david's worthies they were the first three , the composer of them arrogates no such thing to them , thou shalt find many both better appointed , and more strongly armed , and which go forth in strength of those that fight the battels of the lord among the worthies of israel , these were never intended but as a forlorn-hope , yet till the adversary shall have worsted them , thou shalt not need to desire fresh supplies . re-review . this first part or praeambulary approach to the battel gives big words , but no blowes , it only vapours , and vaunts , carries the colours , and ●lourishes them , advancing with a company of broad bragges of what innumerable forces your cause hath at command from scriptures , and from reason , and from churches practise , and authority , and from authors of renown calvin , vrsin , dr. featley , whereby , fearing least they should forgo it upon sight of your own apparent slenderness , and that unthorough provision your disputation presented in proof thereof , to flatter your followers . first , into a false faith of more full and thorough furniture , comming in from all quarters toward its defence , and so to a secure continuance in your crazy cause and to keep close still to the clergy and their colours , in order thereunto also , highly inhauncing the price of three following forlorn-hope highway hacksters and hachny arguments as not the last , nor least , though not the first three among the worthies that are engaged in it . whereas that poor , blind , implicit-opinion'd people , and clergy-claw'd christen'd creatures may no longer , to their utter erring from the way of christs truth , and their own peace , trust in the lying words of their prophets , that profit themselves more then them by their traditionary doctrine , i do here in the name of the great king jesus , who gave commission mat. . to make persons disciples , and to teach them first , and then to baptize them , proclaim it aloud to the whole earth , that all these are either clearly against you , or ( all things considered ) nothing for you . first , the whole region of scripture in every coast and quarter thereof is up in armes against you , neither is there any one part or place throughout it , wherein you ever find that way of infant baptism ( much lesse your way of infant-rantism ) so much as probably to have been practised : or the war you wage for it promoted by so much as one piece of a precept , that such a thing should be done , or inch of instance that ere it was done at all : yea in all places where ever baptism was dispensed you find it done onely and downrightly in that despised way , wherein we do at this day i. e. of dipping persons immediately after , but never before converted and discipled ; all they of ierusalem , and iudaea . and galilee that were baptized by iohn in iordan , and by christs disciples in his presence , and by his appointment , confessed their sins . mat. were first taught and instructed , or made disciples mat. . . iohn . . iohn . . . . all they who were baptized by peter and others after his sermon at ierusalem , to the number of . did first gladly receive the word act. . . all they that were baptized by phillip at samaria , and betwen ierusalem and gaza were men and women that believed the things spoken by phillip concerning the kingdom of god , and the name of iesus acts . . . . all they that were commanded to be baptized by peter in the name of the lord at cesarea were such as were converted at the hearing of the word act. . . . all that were baptized at corinth by paul , silas , timotheus , were such as believed act. . . all they that were baptized by apollos , or any other at ephesus before paul came thither , which were about . were every one of them adult believers , act. . . . &c. a●l that ever we find ananias baptized at damascus , though there were other disciples there besides himself , with whom paul walkt a while , was paul that was baptized calling on the name of the lord. all they of the church of rome ( to every one of whom paul writes his epistle rom . . ) that were baptized into jesus christ , and buried with him by baptism into his death , were such as had formerly lived in sin , and actually obeyed it in the lusts thereof , and yielded themselves up as servants to it , and had now visibly obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered unto them rom. . . . . . . . . which things i take him to be little better then an infant in understanding , that judges they were performed by any infants . all they at galatia , who were baptized into christ , were such as had received and imbraced the gospel , and had put on the lord iesus christ , and such who through ignorance of god had done service to such as by nature were no gods , but now had attained to know god , by the preaching of the gospel to them , which things that are spoken to all the churches of galatia , cannot be said of any infants gal. . . . . . . . . verses , among all which this is most notable in that he saith , as many of you as have bin baptized into christ have put one christ , we see all along throughout the whole body of the new testament , it was not the rule of christ , nor the practise of the primitive times to baptize persons , till they had had first preached the gospel to them , and according to the commission converted them , or made them disciples , indeed so soon as ever they were thus discipled or made disciples ( that no infants can be so in infancy is shewed above , as simply as mr. bazter seems to suppose believers infants are so from the very womb ) i agree with mr. baxter , that their baptism was not to be delayed , and forasmuch as he abundantly proves the period of time , wherein persons were ever baptized in the primitive times by the will of christ to be immediately after they were converted and made disciples , he consequen●ly agrees as much with me as i desire him , insomuch that in confirmation of this that i say , i mean to declare this truth viz. that persons are not to be baptized till they are first made disciples , in the same words wherein he himself declares it to us by the space of well nigh a whole page together , in order to the making of his matter to serve our turn against himself , and all you that baptize infants , but especially against his fellow souldier mr. marshal , and his critical observations , out of which he tells us that infants are not disciples before , but are made disciples by baptizing , i shall frame this argument viz. if christs rule be that persons should be baptized when they are first made disciples without delay , or immediately after they are converted and discipled , then persons are not to be baptized before they are converted and discipled . but christs rule is that persons should be baptized when they are first made disciples , or immediately after they are converted and discipled . ergo , they are not to be baptized before they are converted or discipled . the major is most clear , and consequent , for if it be christs will that baptizing should immediately follow our discipling persons , or converting them to the faith , then consequently t is his will that baptizing should not go before our discipling , and converting them : if baptism must be immediately subsequent to teaching , or making disciples by christs commission , then teaching persons , or making them disciples must be antecedent to baptism , unlesse both these be the mind of christ in his commission whom and when to baptize , viz. that they should not baptize persons till they are taught and discipled , and yet ( to go round again ) that they should not teach them till they have baptized them i. e. in mr. marshals sense initiated them first to be disciples by baptism , and thereby admitted them to be taught , as for the minor , which is this viz. that it is christs rule that persons shall be baptized without delay , when they are first made disciples , or immediately after they are converted , as i have fully proved it already above , both from the commission for baptizing , and from scripture example explaining that commission , and from the end and use of baptism , so i shall further prove it in mr. baxters own words , then which i think there need no other ( if they be well weighed ) to convince a wise man that by scripture rule no infants in infancy are to be baptized . to which purpose he writteth thus p. . . at large viz. first , in the commission mat. . . . christ adjoineth baptizing immediately to discipling , go disciple all nations baptizing them . secondly if any person be so impudent as to say , it is not the meaning of christ that baptizing should immediately without delay follow discipling , they are confuted by the constant example of scripture ; for there is no mention that i can find of any one person that was baptized long after their discipling or that ever the apostles of christ did delay the baptizing of disciples , john . . . iesus made and baptized more disciples then john. see how making and baptizing disciples are conjoined , act. . . . the were presently baptized the same day that they were made disciples without staying till the morrow , though one would think the number of might have excused the delay , if they had taken longer time to do it in ; and some would think that their conversion being so sudden the apostles would have waited for a trial of their sincerity , but this is not the wisdome of god , though it seem to aim at the purity of the church : scripture tells us of another way acts . . . the people of samiaria when they believed were baptized without delay . and v. . . simon magus was presently baptized , though yet not brought out of the gall of bitternesse or bond of iniquity , and had no part or fellowship in that business : yea the samaritans were generally baptized by philip , before they had received the holy ghost : for he was yet fallen upon none of them , onely they were baptized in the name of the lord iesus verse . so acts . . . . the eunuch was baptized in his journey as they went , without delaying one day or hour after he professed himself to be a disciple . so was paul baptized as soon as he rose from his blindnesse upon the words of ananias , acts . . so was cornelius with his friends baptized immediately without delay , the same day lydia and her houshold were baptized without delay acts . . and the iaylor the same hour of the night that he was discipled acts . . so the corinthians acts . . and ananias language to paul repeated acts . . is plain , and now why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized &c. and of the houshold of stephanus that paul baptized , it is implied too ; and it is most observable which is said in iohn . . of iesus himself that he baptized ( by his disciples ) and all men came unto him ; where it is undeniable that iesus baptized without delay , even as fast as they came to him and professed themselves disciples , and can we have a better example then the lord iesus himself ? — and thus you see ( saith he ) that according to all the examples of baptism in the scripture ( not to speak of johns baptism ) there was no delaying , no not a day usually but they were all baptized as soon as they were discipled . thus far are the very words of mr. baxter , brought by him in proof of infant baptisme , and here brought again by me in proof of the clear contrary viz. that according to all the examples of baptism in the scripture , not one infant was ever baptized in the primitive times , but that all that ever were then baptized , did first believe and were converted , were first made disciples by the preaching of the gospel to them , and did first come and professe themselves disciples , and thereupon were immediately admitted : which things i dare say , t will be out of doubt with all rational considerate impartial christians , that they were never performed by any infants , and if not , then whether all these examples do not clearly shew rather that no infants were then baptized , then that any were or now ought to be , a child of . years old at least may easily decide it : notwithstanding so childish is mr. baxter , as to set down this at large , that he may thence make himself a clearer way ( as by the constant example and practise of the primitive time ) to prove your present practise of baptizing of infants : which premises and conclusion viz. that men and women of old were baptized without delay , so soon as ever they were converted to the faith , and were discipled and professed themselves disciples , therefore we must baptize the children of christians in infancy , or else our practise is utterly inconsistent with the rule of christ , and contrary to the practise of the primitive times , and consequently a sinful practise , are as sutable , as humano capiti cervicem pictor equinam iungere si velit , or as when — mulier formosa superne desinat in turpem piscem . and howbeit mr. baxter in defence hereof tells us p. . they who baptize the children of christians at age ( as the anabaptists do ) cannot possibly do it when they are first discipled , i am so amazed at that expression , that i can hardly believe he minded what he said when he pend it , nor do i think the man had his wits well about him when he wrote all the rest that follows in proof therof through out that whole chapter of his , where the further he proceeds , the more he abounds and sinks ore head and ears in absurdities , contradicting himself and his own principles , and overthrowing the very thing he there prosecutes the proof of , for first , so farre is it from being impossible to baptize believers children immediately after they are discipled , if we forbear them till they come to years , that indeed it is impossible that they should be discipled at all till then , in such a way as all those were discipled in , whom he hath produced as examples in this case , for whatever conversion there seems to him to be of all , or at least the most of the children of believers so timely , that neither themselves nor others be can discipled when by the preaching of the gospel they are brought over both to believe , and to be willing to obey the lord jesus , and do freely , ser●ously and ( as may seem to us ) sincerely professe their faith in him , and their readiness to obey him , and their repentance from those dead works , and waies of the flesh they have formerly lived in ( unless he suppose it possible that these should live in sin ) and their desires to be baptized in the name of christ for remission of their sins : then ( i say ) they appear first to be discipled in foro hominum , * & ecclesiae ( for whatever they were before in foro dei is nothing to us ) and then and not before to be baptized . as for us therefore we have a steady rule to go by in the baptizing of persons , according to which we still baptize them as of old they did , when first discipled , yea though they are persons whose parents were church-members , or in other meer relative only , or reall discipleship , yet they are first made disciples when they first appear to be converted , witness the three thousand iewes , whom mr. baxter himself doth instance in ; who though they , and their parents were all relatively holy by birth , and church-members of the visible church of old , and as mr. baxter is pleased to say most simply p. . both disciples and servants of god by very nature , yet in the gospel sense they were first made disciples , or discipled so as thereby to be in right to baptism , when they were by peter converted only , and not before : so that if the children of christians had now either such a relative discipleship ( as he calls it , and as he saies the iews children had once by birth ) and such a real discipleship , or invisible conversion to god in very infancy , as he deeply dotes all such to have so soon as ever they they are born , neither of which yet they have indeed , yet nevertheless that they may be , and also must be first discipled when they are at years in that sense wherein discipling was in the commission enjoined in order to baptism , it is evident by mr. baxters own alledged instance of the iews acts . who though they were ( according to mr. baxter himself as nigh , and in truth more nigh to god by birth , than the fleshly seed of believing gentiles are , yet were not for all that their old church-membership and discipleship ( for indeed they were ( not in infancy ) but when grown up discipled unto moses ) admitted to baptism thereupon , till they were first discipled unto christ , and had both heard , and gladly received the word of the gospel : neither were ever any ( as appears by all the examples forecited ) of what parents soever descended , though of abraham himself admitted to baptism in the primitive times , till discipled , i. e. till visibly appearing , and verbally at least professing to repent , believe and imbrace the gospel : nor is it possible for men , to whom christ gives order to make disciples to him , to do it any other way than by instructing persons till such time as they learn , and receive the things that are taught them . moreover to let pass that round he runs p , . where after he had shewed so abundantly , that to be christs disciples gave persons admission immediately to baptism ( to go round again ) he expresses himself thus lin . . that baptism admitteth them to be his disciples ; whereas mr. baxter asserts , that we cannot possibly baptize children of christians at age , immediatly after they are first discipled , because we cannot possibly know when such children are first discipled , except it be in their first infancy , as i have shewed him already what a steady rule , & direct period of time we keep to in baptizing , as they did in the primitive times , viz. as soon as they are first discipled , i. e. when first they appear to us truly to be converted , and profess seriously and sincerely ( as far as we can judge ) to repent from their sins , and believe in christ , and desire , and profer to be baptized in his name for the remission of sins , so i must return his own proposition upon him ' that they who baptize the children of christians in infancy ( as the anti-baptists do ) cannot possibly do it when they are first discipled , and that because they cannot possibly know when such persons are first made disciples , and except they account them to be first discipled as we do , viz. when professing verbally , and when first appearing visibly and ( for ought we can discern ) truly to believe and repent from their sins , and desire baptism , which things no infants ever do . babist . but mr. baxter supposes infants of christian parents to have a relative infant-discipleship from the womb , and so hath a sure way of baptizing them , when they are first discipled if he baptize them in their first infancy . baptist. that relative infant-discipleship ( if by that he mean the same birth-priviledge ( as i am sure he doth ) which the jewes infants once had ) is a real piece of non-sense , and such a phrase as the spirit never expressed the jewes birth priviledge by , as not by any other so much as tantamount thereunto in sense or signification in either the old testament or new : neither can any such denomination as that of disciple ( which is of disco ) properly be given to any person , upon a meer account of such a relative holiness , as the jewes infants once had , without respect to their being actually under some tuition or other , any more than it might be given to the temple it self , which had then also the same relative holiness . secondly , if it could , i have sufficiently shewed that birth priviledge and holiness , which the jew had by nature to be abolished in christ , and not derived to the fleshly seed of believing gentiles . thirdly , if it were now both in force , and of force to denominate a person to be relatively a disciple of christ by birth , what 's that to the purpose of mat. . . and the tenor of all those presidents mr. baxter brings out of the new testament , whereby to direct us in baptizing , in all which it is both enjoined , and exemplified , that in order to baptism persons should be first made disciples , or discipled really by us , i. e. taught and brought to the faith , and obedience to the gospel , and not baptized upon account of a meer relative birth-discipleship , for the jewes ( but that is nonsense to call their birth-holiness by such a name as that of infant discipleship ) had as much of that infant discipleship , as mr. baxter saies falsly christians children now have , yet till better discipled then , so i. e. till visibly imbracing the gospel , could not be baptized , though pleading we have abraham to our father , besides to be born disciples , if there were any such thing at all ( as mr. baxter dreames there is ) is one thing , and to be made disciples by the teachings of either god or men availing to conversion , which is that only we are according to all that precept , and president mr. baxter himself produces above to baptize persons upon immediately , is another ; to be disciples born , and to be made disciples by men , are as different as those that are born eunuchs , and those that are made eunuchs of men : now if they were ( as there is no such thing in rerum natur â as disciples of christ by nature , nor ever was , but by a birth from above ) such a way of becomming christs disciples relatively from the womb , yet every one of those that were baptized in the primitive times , whom mr. baxter brings in for our example , were discipled by mens teaching , according as in the commission matth. . they were enjoyned to be before they were baptized : yea even those three thousand iews themselves , who ( secundum sacerdotem ) had the relative infant discipleship could not be baptized meerly thereupon , till they had attained to a better discipleship by peters ministry . babist . you see mr. baxter does take discipleship in mr. tombe's own sense and yours viz. as it fignifieth one that doth seriously and understandingly &c. professe christianity , laying by at present the consideration of meer relative infant discipleship , for i speak but his own words p. . and yet makes it good , that your rule of baptizing children of christians at years , is utterly inconsistent with the rule of christ , and that constant example of scripture , wherein baptizing did immediately follow making disciples , forasmuch as the true beginning of the discipleship , or conversion , or sincere profession of faith in men , who are born , and brought up of christian parents , cannot possibly be discerned , it is wrought on by such insensible degrees , and consequently they cannot be baptized , when first made disciples , unless they be baptized in their first infancy . baptist. unless they be baptized in their infancy ? why are you so sure of hitting upon the day , and hour of their first discipleship , or conversion to the faith , if you baptize them in the first of their infancy ? what are all the children of christians ( i hope he doth not take christians in so large a sense as mr. blake does , for papists and formall protestants , as well as zealous professors , and yet by some passages in his book me thinks he makes the pale of the visible church as wide to the full as the other ) are all these i trow disciples with him , not only relatively , but really also i. e. converted truly from their mothers womb ? or if he mean not this of nominall christians , or the seed of christians at large ( which with mr. blake at least are born christians ) but of the children of true converts , sincere believers , such as are christians indeed , what is it evident that all , or at least the most ( as mr. baxter saies ) of the children of real disciples are as real disciples as their parents so soon as they are born ? are the seed of true believers true converts mostly by birth ? how then do so many of them as well of the seed of meer nominal christians , prove wretches , and ungracious a great while , till god workes on them , and many of them , to the grief of their parents , even to their dying day ? and yet thus it should seem they are in mr. baxters opinion , so that if they be baptized in their first infancy , under ●he notion of such , they are in all likelyhood baptized when they are first made disciples even immediately upon the point , and period of their conversion : and besides if they may so safely be supposed all , or most of them to be truly converted , and upon that account baptized in their first ●efancy , as he saies , then how doth this square a squint , with what he saies also ( to go round again ) in the same chapter p. ? viz. that men are usually who are born and brought up of christian parents , wrought to this , meaning to conversion and true discipleship by such insensible degrees , that the true beginning cannot be discerned . . by others . . no not themselves . and p. . now if it be the sincerity that is looked after , who knoweth what day or year the child began to be sincere in his profession ? for my own part i aver from my heart that i neither know the day nor year when i begun to be sincere , nor the time when i first began to be a christian : how then should others know it ? and when mr. tombes would have baptized me i cannot tell , and as large experience as i have had in my ministry of the state of souls , and the way of conversion , i dare say i have met not with one of very many that would say they knew the time of their conversion , and of those that would say so by reason that they then felt some more remarkable change , yet they discovered such stirrings and workings before , that many i had cause to think were themselves mistaken ; and that i may not tell men only of mine own experience and those of my acquaintance , i was once at a meeting of very many christians , most eminent for zeal and holinesse of most in the land , of whom diverse were ministers , and some at this day as famous and as much followed as any i know in england , and it was there desired , that every one should give in the manner of their conversion , that it might be observed what is gods ordinary way : and there was but one that i remember of them all , that could conjecture at the time of their conversion , but all gave in that it was by degrees , and in long time , now when would mr. tombs have baptized any of these ? all this mr. baxter saies in proof on t that the time of the first conversion of children of christian parents , or when they are first discipled cannot be known for the most part , by either themselves or others , whereupon he concludes that if we baptize them at age , though never so punctually at the time of their profession of faith , repentance , and desire of baptism , we cannot possibly baptize them when first discipled , or immediately after conversion , as we ought to do by the example of the primitive times ( wherein yet they did thus , and no otherwise , witnesse all the instances of his own alledging ) but those that baptize them without delay so soon as ever they are born , they cannot do otherwise then jump just with the very time wherein they are first discipled ( according to the primitive pattern he himself produces , wherein of all that were baptized , whether iews or gentiles , immediately upon their being discipled , we read not of one infant ) and good reason why they must needs hit right upon their first being discipled or converted , that baptize them in the first infancy , for though the time of the first conversion or discipling of the children of christian parents be not scarce possible to be conjectured at either by themselves or others , yet ( to go round again ) it may so safely and surely be supposed and conjectured to be in the first of their infancy , that they may warrantably be baptized then ( as then newly made disciples ) without any danger of aberration from either christs commission or the primitive custom of baptizing persons when first discipled , and professing themselves disciples : o the wisdom ! he that being in the fire would not come out to hear how bravely mr. baxter brings about , and about again his businesse in that chapter of the second part of his book , t is pitty but he should be burnt . and lastly whereas mr. baxter queries so oft when mr. tombs would have such baptized , the set time of whose conversion ? is not distinctly known leaving mr. tombs to tell him his mind as he sees good himself , i tell him ( if he ask me the same question ) that in my mind such whose conversion is not known when it is ( as by his own confession the conversion of christians children some times is not , witnesse that one in which he instances , and ( as few as he knowes of that sort ) yet how many hundreds of the children of religious parents ( among whom i my self make one ) do know when they were first truly converted ? such i say should be baptized as neer as may be , upon the time of their conversion and becoming disciples , and if it have been then fo●eslowd , it must be after as soon as it can , but in no wise so many years before it , as the priests unviversally do it : and such of whom it is not known nec per se , nec per alios , when they first were discipled , and converted ) but oh how do i fear , that as he that never doubted never believed , so many of those implicit converts mr. baxter talks on , that never knew when they were discipled and converted , were never yet truly discipled hor converted at all to the truth as it is in iesus , but as they had it more by tradition from their fathers , then unfained search of scriptures ) such i say of whom t is not known when they first were converted and discipled , shall by my consent be baptized , when ever it is first known that they are converted and discipled unto christ , by their own profession of their conversion and discipleship , and desire of baptism , and this not by my consent alone , but by the joint consent of all these very scriptures , which mr. baxter himself hath co●ed for our example and warrant , all which if ( as far as christs own precept and practise , and the primitive churches example can do it ) they do not warrant the baptism of all , and onely such persons as were first taught , or made disciples by preaching , or instructed till they both learnt , believed and imbraced the gospel , and professed themselves disciples and offered themselves to baptism , and consequently of no infants , then for my part i le lay aside all sense and reason , as no more to be heeded as a help to understand the scriptures , and turn a very tom-fool , and he that can altobelogick these scripture institutions and instances into plain scripture proofs of infant church membership and baptism , erit mihi magus apollo : for there 's no mention of infants either expressely or implicitly in any one of them : oh ( therefore to eccho back to mr. baxter a little in much what his own words to us concerning those scriptures p. ) that those who are so inclinable to seperation from the primitive practise , would consider the unfitnesse of infants to be admitted by baptism to be church members under the gospel ! oh that they that in church whole parishes , as if they , because the pope will have it so , were all churches , and will have no trial at all , and discoveries of the work of persons conversion , before they admit them , but take them all at hap hazard as they fall from the belly within the bounds of that parish where they are plac't , and popified , would but lay to heart all these scripture examples , and make more conscience of observing their rule , and not presume to be wiser and holier then god , when it was mans first overthrow to desire to be but as god , though he did not attempt to go beyond him , as the priests do in adding other subjects to his ordinances , then himself appointed : which changing of his law will be mans last overthrow isa. . doubtlesse those that christ baptized by his disciples , were church-members ; but those were not infants , but such as were first made disciples by preaching onely iohn . and be that will go beyond iesus christ in strictnesse shall go without me , i do not think he will be offended with me for doing as he did i. e. for baptizing none but such as believe and professe themselves disciples , and as repent of their sins , and desire to be baptized in the name of christ for the remission of them : and so i have done with mr. baxter till we meet again , onely since mr. marshal is pleased ponere obicem to object , and bolt in here , that we cannot say none in these places were baptized , but such as did thus , i. e. believe and professe themselves disciples p. . to mr. tombs because the word onely is not here , i may well call it obicem , or objectionem obularem , a hint not worth a half penny ; and if he appeal to his own conscience , it will tell him no lesse ; neverthelesse what ere he thinks , i say again , all that were baptized in the forenamed places , were such as are there specified to be profest converts and believers , and if there were any more let him assign and shew us whom , and wee l believe him : as for the housholds himself is in the sands , whether there were any infants in them or no , and i have shewd above , that they that were baptized in them , are exprest all by some clause or other exclusive of infants , and conclusive onely of adult disciples : besides mr. cotton confesses that the infants were not baptized with their parents , and that the infants that were brought to christ were not baptized at all ( for ought he knows ) nor their parents neither , and here are all the scriptures that declare how baptism was done then , and to whom , most of which are cited by mr. baxter himself , from which you cannot possibly scrape so much as any old odd end of an example for such a businesse as your baptism . as for us , besides that plain precept we have in mat. . even every whit of this is plain ●resident for our baptism , and comes into our assistance against all your cavils ( o ye priests ) for thus i argue viz. the baptism of men and women professing faith in the lord iesus , confessing sins , calling on the name of the lord &c. is a baptism , yea all the baptism that the scripture speaks of , either in way of command or example . but the baptism which we dispence , is a baptism of men and women professing faith in our lord iesus , confessing sins , calling on the name of the lord , gladly receiving the word &c. ergo that baptism which we dispense is a baptism , yea all the baptism the scripture speaks of in way of either command or example . therefore s●rs , how hath satan bewitched you that you cannot believe and obey the truth ? what will you onely think things , and thrust your thoughts of them as oracles upon all others ? will you imagine and suppose , and dream , and dote , and fancy , and fain a baptism , that the scriptures and first churches never knew , and then father your figments upon the scriptures , and fasten them as the fashion which , the whole world must be forct to follow and conform to ? moreover i do not at present remember any one part of scripture , which your selves summon into your help in this case of infant baptism , that doth not yield ammunition , and much matter against you more then for you , unlesse it be one or two used by your selves , which one may as well with skoggin untile the house to look for an hare as urge either pro or con about infants baptism , so farre shall he be from finding in them any proof for that , or the true baptism either : as namely cor. . . thess. . . there are but two places that i know of , besides those i have already turned upon you above , that are held out by any of you out of the armory of scripture in defence of infant baptism , and those are col. . . cor. . . . both which not onely knock sprinkling oth'head , but may also very easily be sheathed in the bowels of baby-baptism : as for the first it speaks ( as well nigh all scripture doth , not much medling with infants ) not onely to , bu● of adult disciples only , of whom as well as to whom ( and not of infants ) in way of satisfaction to them , and answer to those that would have brought in the old circumcision made with hands among them , paul saies ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , which circumcision without hands there spoken of , is not baptism neither ( as some dream , who thence also draw in circumcision and baptism to be of so neer kin that as they have both one name , so they must both have one subject also ) for baptism is no more done withoutehands then the other , but the sanctification or inward circumcision of the heart , cutting off the foreskin i. e. the filth of the heart , which things infants do not , in token of which he tells them they are ( not sprinkled ) but buried i. e. overwhelmed in water with christ in the outward baptism , wherin also they are risen with him through faith &c. all which things he that imagins they more include then exclude the sucking infants of such , to whom he speaks , is no man in discretion with me . as for the other place its most evident the apostle speaks not of baptism litterally but metaphoically onely there , they were baptized unto moses i. e. by the visible tokens of gods presence amongst them viz. the cloud and sea assisting and siding with them , and overthrowing their adversaries , they were confirmed in the belief of god , and his servant moses , as we by baptism are in the faith of gods goodnesse to us , and of his son jesus christ : in further confirmation of which meer figurative sence of the word [ baptized ] you may do well to consider that though they were said to be baptized in the cloud , and in the sea , which phrases however ▪ sound forth such a total immersion as is not in two or three drops of water fingered on the face , yet they were not so much as wetted with either the cloud or the sea , for its said exod. . . . the sea was made dry land under them , and they went through it dry shod , or on dry ground , which they could not be well said to do had it so much as rained upon them , such a figurative sence of the word [ baptize ] there mr. baxter himself denies not p. . yet dr. channel urged that place in a publique dispute at petworth ian. . as one of his arguments for infant baptism , besides secondly , if you will needs have it properly taken that they were baptized really , and not quasi baptized , as mr. baxter yields they were , and if you will needs make that baptism such an emblem of ours , that ours must have an adequate subject to that , which say you , was infants as well as parents , then t will put you to your trumps to excuse your selves handsomly in your now denying to infants the same spiritual meat and drink in the supper , which they then eat and drank of in a figure also viz. the manna and the rock , which both were no other ( antitypically ) then the bread and wine are mistically in the supper i. e. the lord jesus christ. for all your vain boasting therefore of what innumerable arguments you have from scriptures , i say the scriptures are sure enough on our side , nevertheless taking the word in a sutable sense you do well to call your scripture armes or arguments innumerable , for indeed they are not to be numbred ( for even unit as , much more nonit as non est numerus ) being no more than just none at all . secondly , whereas you boast of the innumerable arguments which may be brought for your infant rantism from reason , the full force of reason is utterly against you , and so wholly assistant to our cause , that the unreasonablest man amongst you will once see it , when sound reason comes to reign , and sway the scepter indeed . yea not to stand reasoning on it now how reasonless a thing it is to ask a company of men and women , as the priests were wont to do at the font , thus viz. do you believe in god the father , and christ &c. and will you be baptized in this faith ? and when they answered yes , that is all our desire , then instead of them who profess their faith and desires to be baptized , to take a small sucking babe out of their armes , and dat him with a drop or two on the face , and send away all the other unbaptized . babist . the sureties or parents in so saying do but represent the child , that could not speak for it self , and expresse his good resolutions to forsake the divel &c. and his desires to be baptized . baptist how reasonless is it to put questions to infants through their parents ears , and then very gravely suppose them answering again through their parents mouthes ? yea as reasonless as to suppose that all people should see through none but the blind priests eyes ; nor yet to stand reasoning how reasonless a thing it is to signifie things to sucklings while they understand them not , and that too by such a vanishing visible sign , that when they can understand , they neither see , nor never shall , and such like trumpioall transactions , to which there are as few grains of reason concurring , as there are inches in an apes tail , even your selves , however it happens that you so contradict your selves ( yet that is no news with you ) as to sound it out here how reason fights on your sides for infant baptism , are even in this very cause found falling out with , and fighting down right against reason hand smooth but some four or five pages below this , why else is there such a reasonles reply made to seven or eight several objections , which by your own confession p. . reason makes against infant baptism , but i le spare you till i come thither . ly that the practise and authority of the church of god you so much boast of from the beginning and the fathers thereof , which you complain and grumble much p. . . . that t was set aside , and might not be admitted into your assistance at the disputation , is so utterly against your infant baptism , that even this alone were it of any esteem with you , had bin enough to have silenced all your disputes for it , and laid the itch , and quencht the heat of your hearts after that meer novelty , is most manifest , if by the church of god , and the fathers therof you mean what i do , viz. the church of god in the primitive , which were the best and purest times of the gospel , whose practise in this particular is set out in the word , but specially in the acts of the apostles , the fathers of which church and of the church in after ages too were the apostles themselves , viz. father peter , father paul , father barnabas , father iames , father iohn , and the rest whose authority from christ was great indeed , and adequate with the scriptures then written , and the foundation for all the churches to build on , and such was not the authority of the churches then , much less since which are to be subjected to their word in scripture , this church , and these fathers never knew such a baptism as yours , nor is there the least tittle of talk concerning any such matter to be found among them . or if by the church and fathers of it , whose authority and practise you build on , you mean those of the ages next to the apostles . then first i marvel , why you should put your selves upon the triall by succeeding ages , and decline the first and purest age of the gospel of all , specially since there 's as clear history , and more infallible testimony given in the word , of what was done by the church , and the first fathers the apostles , then ever was in any age inferiour to it whatsoever , and more specially yet since its being in after ages is no palpable argument of its being in the first age , for the mystery of iniquity was at work from the very apostles , t is now , ergo it was then is not so good a wherefore to our why as we look for , besides t is ingenuously confest by your own writers viz. mr. blake in answer to mr. blackwood p. . that faith can hang on the humane testimony of the succeeding fathers , in whose daies infant baptism was , no further then de facto viz. that it was onely , and not de jure that it ought to be , and mr. marshal p. . of his sermon , that the practise of the thing in their dayes proves not the truth of it at all . secondly , neither doth the second century help you so much as to a proof de facto . for first , as much as you would seem to be verst among the fathers ( in which many priests are better read then in the scriptures , and some to seem to be better read there then they are , will quote the fathers when they have not read them , but by snaches , and pickt a few fine phrases out of them , to make their sermons the more sententious , yea and sometimes for those very sentences , for which they might more truly quote the apostles , that primitively pend them , witnesse one of your tribe whom i heard with my own ears say of heb. . . he took not on him the nature of angels , thus viz. for as saint barnard saith , when as he might as well have said , as the spirit , or as the scripture saith , he took not on him &c. if yet he knew that t was in the scripture ) as much i say as you are versed in the fathers , you are desired by mr. blackwood ( a man better read in those fathers then either you or i ) yea you and mr. marshall also , who quotes iustin martyr , are desired by him in his storming of antichrist p. . . . to prove if you can out of any place of iustins genuine works , who is the antientest father extant next the apostles , whose works are accounted on , that there is so much as the name of infant baptism , much more the thing ; yea he tells you ye may as soon find a dolphin in the woods , as any such thing : save onely that t is once mentioned in a spurious book falsely called his , out of which book mr. marshalls quotation is , neither doth mr. blake gainsay this , nor yet mr. marshall in their replies , nay they rather seem to grant that it s to be doubted it was so , which makes me as well as mr. blackwood , not a little wonder that mr. marshall should quote it with so much confidence , i mean so as to assert it thereupon as a matter manifest , that the church ( counting from the time of iustin martyr viz. ) hath bin possest of the priviledg of infant baptism for the space of years and upwards , for had he not doubted but that the words , he cites were without question the words of iustin himself , he had not had sin , but now he hath no cloak , sith he demonstrates to all men dubitatum per magis dubium , and tells the world to make them believe that iustin disputes the condition of children that dye baptized and unbaptized , when yet it s not believed , but much doubted by himself , whether iustin did any such thing yea or no : as to the words mr. marshal p. . of his sermon cites out of irenaeus who lived toward the end of the second century , which englisht are thus viz. christ came by himself to save all , all i say , who are born again unto god , infants and little ones &c. it s not likely that in this sentence that father by the word [ born again ] meant baptism ( as mr. blake and mr. marshal contend ) for by that sence they father such absurdity upon that their father , as children that pretend to honour their father , may be ashamed of , whilst they make him say , christ came to save all infants that are baptized , when as neither all infants , that are baptized are actually saved , quâ baptized , nor are any unbaptized infants damned , quâ not baptized , but both alike saved as both alike they either dye before they have bard themselves by actual sin , and derserved exemption , or living to years believe and obey christ , and both alike damned as living to years they both alike obey not his gospel , but however let mr. blake and mr. marshal squeeze what they can from the quotation , it must yet remain as doubtful whether the speech of irenaeus ( if it were his own ) were at all of infants baptism , as it doth whether the speech fathered on iustin ( though it be of infants baptism ) were at all his own : and so what dubious evidence the second century affords , so much as de facto , that infant baptism was then in being , all men may see , whilst you can say no more then perhaps it was so , and a fool may say as much as perhaps it was not , which is a proportionable answer to that argument , for t is commonly said in the schooles ( saies mr. marshal ) that forte ita , solvitur per forte non . secondly , but what if your testimony de facto concerning the practise of infant baptism in the second century were as clear , as t is cloudy , yet what green headed antiquity is this in comparison of that we plead from viz. the apostles themselves ? when you are stormed out of all your strong holds then you send us still to ages above us , and cry out your practise is of years standing , but sith you cannot say as we can of ours , t is above years old ( nor is yours now likely to live to it ) as good you had said but for our way onely being found in the first century , and yours not at all before the second , we are a people so much elder then you upstarts , that your antiquity is but novelty with us , whoregardlesse of what by mans wisdome was foisted in in after ages , can aver with as much confidence as you can that now it is that from the beginning it was not so , nor yet in end shall be : i much marvel why mr. marshall contents himself to preach positively no otherwise then thus , p. . viz. this priviledge of baptizing infants the christian church hath bin in possession of for the space of years and upwards : he might as easily have said , had his ground been as good for that as for the other , and yet his ground for the other is so infirm , and sinking under him , that i believe he must fall down as low as the third century , before he find sure footing for his proof of no more then the bare practise of infant baptism . as for the ius of it its nere the nearer , if he could prove the matter of fact to be in the second , though that still is the main question betwen us , sith t is confest by mr. marshall that he uses not the testimony and judgements of the antients to witnesse to the truth of it , but onely to prove a then practise of infant baptism , and the question de jure whether infants ought to be baptized , no one of the fathers , nor yet the joint consent of many ( saith mr. blake p. . of his to mr. blackwood ) is a competent iudge , therefore if any of you , who stand so much upon that young antiquity of it , and plead the authority of the church and fathers shall argue thus , t is years old , therefore it is you live below that candor ingenuity , and discretion that i find in mr. marshal and mr. blake , who both deny your consequence , and in this case close with us in the very truth . thirdly , as for the third century , t is somewhat more then probable that such a superstition as infant baptism was comming in at least , or else t is like there would not have been such pro and con as was about it , for , true , or●gen ( if the testimonies fathered on him be his own ( which he who well weighs what evidence is put in to the contrary by mr. blakwood p. of his rioynder to mr. blake , where he saith , that the original of origen is ●ost , that the translator confesses he added many things of his own , that erasmus saies one cannot be sure whether one read ruffinus or origen , that the learned put his commentary on the romans among his counterfeit works , as much sophisticated by ruffinus , and also what is said by mr. tombs too ( notwithstanding all that mr. marshall brings p. . . . . of his to mr. tombes , whereby to salve it , will find small ground to believe ) origen i say , a man of many errors , stiles it a tradition received from the apostles , which if you will believe implicitly you may , but else you need not , for t is no more then a bare scripturelesse assertion , cyprian also , and a councel of bishops , almost contemporary to origen , are supposed to be of some such mind , but upon such silly grounds , as you that now plead infants baptism , are ashamed of , witnesse mr. blake p. who denies them not to be erroneous as mr. blakwood calls them , and therefore you may as well be ashamed of their opinion and expression of it also , it being ( for all their reasons ) as scriptureless as that of origen , who brings nothing to prove what he said . babist . but mr. marshal p. . tells you that it was because none opposed the lawfulness of infant-baptism , which if they had , origen would no doubt have maintained by scripture , as well as affirmed it to come from the apostles . baptist. this is strange , when it is most evident , and mr. marshall himself denies it not , that famous tertullian , the first of that century , that might in respect of his seniority to origen , and cyprian be stiled a father to them both , perswades by many reasons to deferre the baptism of children , as most profitable , saying , let them become christians when they know christ. and in another place , it behooves them that are about to enter into baptism to pray with frequent prayers , fastings , kneelings , watching , and with the confession of all their sinnes past , which things infants ( we know ) cannot do . first , then i appeal to your own consciences , and mr. marshalls also , whether this be not a plea against it as unlawful , for to decline what 's most profitable is unlawful . secondly , whether here be not pro and con among the fathers about it , and so though their testimony serves to prove what mr. marshal brings it for , viz. that it was practised in their times , yet it serves not to your purpose , who upon the fathers and their churches authority , would gather and ground the right of that practise , for who but children will go about to prove the veri●y of a practise by the authority of those fathers , whose witnesse agrees not together , and who are contradictory to one another in their testimonies of it , and some of whose testimonies in that thing are quite and clean contradicted by the testimonies of such as concurre with them almost in every thing else ? for so i may truly say the testimonies of father austin are , who in one place viz. ad volusianum ep. . ( according to mr. blakes quotation of him p. . ) writes thus viz. the custome of the church in the baptizing of infants is by no means to be despised , nor to be accounted superfluous , nor yet were it at all to be credited , were it not a tradition of the apestles . thus this father who though inferior to the other in time , yet is not inferiour to the chiefest of them in your account ; but he brings no scripture neither any more then origen for the same , yet it is like some sleighted it as superfluous in his daies : but ludovicus vives , a man so observant of austin , that he wrote annotations upon him , in those very annotations of his upon the th chapter of the first book de civit . dei ( according to mr. denns quotation of him p. . against dr. featley ) is so far from crediting that he corrects austin rather as to that piece of faith saying , that of old it was the custome to baptize none unless they were of full age , and did desire baptism in their own persons ; and did undeestand what it was to be baptized . now who can safely build so much as you do ( unless he mean to be both blindly guided with you , and a blind guide to the blind ) on the authority of such fathers , as ( saving their honesty in what they knew , and eminency in some things , were yet so silly in some others , that they did the church no such good office as they wot of , who ere they were that canonized them into such fatherhood over the faith , that their opinions must be as oracles for all to act by : witnesse good saint bernard , the last in that catalogue , who ( saving that he knew some truth , as other honest men did in those dismal daies wherein he lived ) was w●apt up into a mist of so many other errors , besides that of infants baptism , that we may boldly use the proverb , viz. bernardus non videt omnia , for ( as mr. blackwood quotes out of his ser. in p. . of his storm ) speaking of some christians that opposed the popish stream he sai●h thus . they laugh at us , because we baptize infants , because we pray for the dead , because we require the praiers of saints . all which doctrine , though falling from a father , is yet indeed too ridiculous to be received for truth , in these daies of its return from captivity , by any but meer children in the gospel . thirdly , i appeal to your consciences ( not to mr. marshalls and mr. blakes here , for they from the fathers assert no more than matter of fact , that infant-baptism was then , whilest you matter of faith that it ought to be ) whether that foretold testimony of tertullian may not ballance with those of origen , cyprian , &c. who were not so near the pure times of the apostles as he , and whether he were not as likely as origen and austin to know if it had been so that infant-baptism was a tradition from the apostles , and in case he did know it , to what end he should deny it to be now dispensed ; or do you imagin him a man of so mean a conceit of the apostles wisdome , and so highly conceited of his own , that he would forbid that as unprofitable , which the apostles prescribed , and prescribe a more convenient way himself ? sure he must know as well as they if it were apostolicall , and they possibly might not know so well as he that it was not , being all iuniors to him and one of them , viz. cyprian , so much beholding to him for much of what he had , that he dignified him with the name of his master , such a diligent disciple , i. e. reader and learner of tertullian was he , that damihi magistrum was his common speech of him ; so that his rational diswasion from infant-baptism , cannot but be a more cogent ground of faith on one hand , then origens scriptureless position , and cyprians antapostolick , and reasonless reasons , and perswasion to it are one the other , unless you will needs so father it over the fathers themselves , as to authorize which of them and which of their sentences you please , disowning the rest , as not orthodox , or authentick , further then they serve your own turns , and then by my consent they shall be no longer fathers to you , but you fathers over them , and us too in their stead . but mr. marshall , who hath a longer arm then every body , reaches us a rap yet by a certain quaere , which he propounds to mr. tombs p. . . . to which till he hath some answer he will conceive we are so sick of tertullian that wee le say no more of him . his quaere is this . babist . why may not the diswasion cited out of tertullian de baptismo infantium reasonably be interpreted of the infants of infidells only , whose baptism he would have deferred , till they come to years , and to profess faith themselves , and not of the infants of christians ? i am inclined to believe that to be the true meaning of the place for such considerations . first , because tertullian alledges this double reason why he would have the baptism of little ones delaied , viz. least their sponsors , or sureties be in hazzard of not fulfilling the promises they make on their behalf , by either their own mortality , or the childrens proving untoward , of ●nclineable to iniquity , for whom they undertake . secondly , because t is clear and evident by the th . chapter of tertullian book , the th . chapter whereof hath this disswasion to baptize little ones , that tertullian did acknowledge that the children of believers are by birth designati sanctitatis & salutis , counted holy from cor. . . not sancti till they be born of water , and the spirit , and have a kind of priviledge , and prerogative by nature , yea such a sanctity , and the very same as is called faederall , or covenant holinesse , that gives right to baptism . baptist , and so saies dr. holmes also p. . upon the same text of tertullian mr. marshal quotes , and out of which he raked his reasons , to which second reason or mr. marshal i answer . first , and that thus confessing that that good old father , who is no more infallible than your selves , so that his sentence without reason proves any thing at all to be de jure , doth seem to me to erre together with you , though not so grossly as you , as touching the genuine sense of the agostle in that cor. . . when he saith to parents of two religions in one civil relation , that their children are holy , and to own a certain meer reputative holiness as there meant , which is not to other children , yet denying altogether that he held any such thing , as that thereupon these children should be baptized , for that is a fictitious conclusion of your own , which follows not , if such a reputative holiness as you wo● of were there meant , nor doth tertullian so much as hint it in that place , which m. marshal is so brag off , that he supposes he wounds us shrewdly by setting it down in words at length , and not in figures , x which place will for all that never scare in any wise any wise man of our way , though it be set down by dr. holmes y in words at more length and not in figures , i. e. in plain english , and not as mr. marshal doth in unenglished latine , for what if some men think , as for reasons above rendred i surely never shall from that place , that the apostle is willing to give way to faithful parents to hope well of their children , and to count upon them , till they see either that or the contrary , as more hopefully then others , holy and happy ones , tam ex seminis praerogativa quam ex institutionis disciplina , as having some prerogative above others in being the seed of such who have prayed for them , before they were born , as well as in being more likely to be discipled into the way of holinesse and life , by their godly education of them , is there an necessity of their thinking consequently they must baptize them out of hand , unlesse there were more command from christ for so sudden administration of that ordinance to them then there is ? i trow not : for a man may look upon his child as some way priviledged by being his seed viz. as a child of more prayers and hopes , and future happinesse and advantages , and present holinesse too then many others , being ignorantly conceited ( as you are ) that some infants in very infancy are eith●r really o● reputatively more holy then some from that place , viz. cor. . . and not think them fit as yet to be baptized ; or else ( if he do ) yet not find good ground in scripture for that thought , by beating the best brains his head piece holds , either about that place , or any other : yea verily i my self , who hold not that high birth priviledge of some infants above others , as you do , who by your mouth ( i mean mr. blake ) declare some by nature now as of old to be children of god , and saints , and some dogs and swine , some holy i. e. in your sense in covenant as the iew of old , and some unclean i. e. in your sense out of covenant with god , and sinners of the gentiles , which distinction is now destroyed , much lesse that such prerogative of seed is intended by the apostle in that tex● , even i my self i say do look on all infants as holy in some sense ( as i have shewed before ) i. e. negative , as far as meer innocency , and freedom from iniquity may denominate holy , not counting them to be in adam , and so impure , but recounting them in christ , till by actual sin , and a wicked life they take me off from that account , and on some children also viz. those of christian parents , as having in some sense a prerogative of seed , so far as they may be a seed of prayers , more then othess , and in some sense too ( not yours ) a holinesse above others i. e. as they may be sanctified to their parents , as blessings , as every thing else may be by their prayers , whether good or evill in it self ( if yet what is blest to us may be properly denominated holy , as every creature is said to be sanctified to the saint tim. . ) and yet for my life dare i not baptize any at all : and as for tertullian , though he mistaking pauls meaning , holds such are holy by a kind of prerogative of seed ( as mr. marshall speaks ) yet t is very questionable to me , whether it be that so transcendent kind of birth holiness , and prerogative you expound him of , and howbeit dr. holmes and mr. marshall would fain fetch that father in by force of forged construction to witnesse as a god-father to their federal holinesse ; yet i cannot easily believe by his words , that he hath respect to any more then a bare recounting , and reputing these to be holy , in a sense abstract from any reallity of their being holy by natural birth , and in their childhood as the doctor vainly descants on tertullians phrase wherein he mentions them to be holy , or till such time as they are holy indeed by that new birth from above ; and mr. marshal takes my part against the doctor in this too saying they are in tertullians sense designati sanctitatis i. e. as these words are expounded by the following , witnesse the doctor himself , counted holy ; but not sancti i. e. not holy , till they be born of water , and the spirit p. . much lesse can i ever believe that he counted them holy and priviledged above others so far , as thereupon to assert them , or so much as to allow them to be baptized , for that 's an utter in consequence of your own from pauls text cor. . . and from tertullians text to , who though he take pauls speech of such childrens holinesse a little the wrong way , yet wrests them not so far out of the way to the proof of such a popish practise as you do , yea there is not a little in tertullians testimony you so talk of , that tends at all to testifie the truth of infant baptism ; indeed had the epithet given by tertullian fidelium filiis been so as that instead of that phrase , wherein he saies they ought to be designati sanctitatis et salutis i. e. reputatively holy and happy ones , he had said they should be signati sanctitatis , & salutis i. e. signed , in your own phrase , sealed ones of holinesse and happinesse , there had been some hint towards baptism , but as t is there is none at all of such a matter . the dr. draws neck and heels together to make tertullian speak to his mind , but t will appear he was of another mind then he , as to the baptism of any infants when all is done . for saith he babist . tertullian shews childrens capacity of grace and salvation . baptist. and what then ? yea what if we grant you that they are capable of salvation , yea the scripture asserts it , and we do not deny it , therefore you need not trouble tertullian for this testimony , but what follows upon it ? what then ? babist . what then ? why consequently they are capable of the seal , for the deeds , and their seales follow the right of the inheritance . baptist. this is your inference mr. dr. from which inference of yours , now we talk of inferring , i le infer two things by way of quaere , and so let it passe viz. first , if the seales in plurali , marke your words therefore both at least , yet both are but signs neither in true locution , must both follow the right of the inheritance of which children are in capacity as well as men , then to fill you with your own phrase , why is not one seal of the same inheritance , of the same salvation given to infants by you , as well as the other ? i. e. the supper as well as baptism ? secondly , if these in plurali , or if no more then baptism be to be given to children consequently upon no more then capacity o● salvation , the capacities of infants being equal , and they quoad nos all alike capable to enjoy it , if god , who is neither bound nor barred , please to bestow salvation , why are not both these , or at least that one sign of baptism , which you give to some infants , given by you to all infants as well as some ? i. e. to ungodly mens children as well as to those of godly parents ? the dr. strives with all his strength and straines one point more yet to strain tertullians testimony to his turn , yet will it not do in any wise . babist . tertullian in that text mentions not onely childrens being holy , but he mentions also that place iohn . . in relation to children , except a man be born again of water and of the spirit &c. from which we may perceive that tertullian grounds infants baptism upon scripture . baptist. to which first supposing that by that birth of water , and the spirit is meant nothing but baptism in that place of tertullian , we are yet upon , i reply . secondly , thus viz. appealing to the drs own conscience , and mr. marshals also , whether he speak that very clause of scripture in that very place of his we are now upon to that very intent , as to ground infant baptism upon it , or whether if it be read with a right and true emphasis , and reference , it doth not of the two rather suppose it was not to be in infancy ? for having ( as mr. marshal understands ) confessed so far of infants of the faithful , that they are designati sanctitatis , et salutis i. e. to be held in the mean time ( to wit ) in childhood , and before baptism , as holy and happy reputatively only , yet he saies that none of all them are sancti i. e. holy indeed ( for that we see is tertullians sense of the word enter into the kingdom ) unlesse they be born of water and the spirit , that is ( as i conceive ) till they be converted and baptized , which thing that it is at all to the infants of the faithful in their minority he saith not at all here , nor any thing like it , but elsewhere , mentioning the same scripture iohn . . as he puts the water and the spirit together , so both before and behind it , he puts teaching and dipping , faith and baptism as things that by the law of dipping are imposed as of necessity to go together , saying he hath bound f●ith to the necessity of baptism , therefore all believers ( speaking of none else ) were baptized , and then paul when he believed was baptized , in his book de baptismo advers . quintil. editio de la , cerda . vol. . p. . ibid. c. . as mr. blackwood quotes him in his storm of antichrist p. . so that in the quotation were are yet upon the antithesis lies thus in my conscience as i read him viz. infants of the faithful in their infancy may be reputatively holy , but not really holy , none being really holy till such time as they be born of water and the spirit , which was not in infancy in tertullians apprehension , as it seems to me in that very place which the dr. and mr. marshall make so much of , as the words designati sanctitatis , non sancti do shew , whereupon i perswade my self it was that in that other place of his , that i must return to , he uses disswasion from dispensing , and perswasion to deferring baptism to all , but specially to infants , not of infidels onely , but believers also , as i shall shew clearly to mr. marshal now , who scruples it , and that by such reasons as shall take that rub and stumbling block of his out of the way ( i mean this last text of tertullian of his own and dr. holmes his alleading ) by which they were both gravelled from believing tertullian to be ours , for indeed whereas that place he last alleadged did give him supposed ground to scruple whether tertullians disswasion from baptizing of infants were from any , but the infants of infidels , i hope to shew him such a necessity of understanding his disswasion to be from the baptism of any infants whatsoever , as shall give him contrarily sure ground of belief , that howbeit tertullian would have some infants higher accounted on then some , yet he would not from thence have any baptized : to which end i shall set down tertullians disswasions of infant baptism in english , as i find them quoted by mr. marshall in latin , who ( i observe ) seldom englishes what may make against him p. . of mr. marshall against mr. tombes , and in p. . of dr. holmes in english , and more largely then by either of them by mr. blackwood in his storm p. . together with the grounds why he would not have little ones baptized , and leave it to be judged what little ones he means . tertullians words are these viz. according to every ones condition , and disposition , and age , the delay of baptism is more profitable , but especially concerning little children , for what necessity is there ( if it be not so much a necessity ) as to have the sureties also brought into danger ? who may both by their own mortallity sail of fulfilling their promises , and by the increase of an ill disposition be deceived . the lord saith indeed forbid them not to come unto me , let them come therefore when they grow up to youth , &c. thus far mr. marshal and the dr. mr. blackwood writes further thus . let them come whilst they are young , whilst wherein they come they are taught , let them become christians when they know christ : — a little further he saith , shall it be done more warily insecular things , that to whom earthly substance is not committed divine should be committed ? they shall know to beg salvation , that thou mayst seem to give it to him that asketh it , also in the chapter of the same book he saith , it behoves them that are about to enter into baptism , to pray with frequent prayers , fastings , kneeling , and watchings , and with the confession of their sins past , in all these words , is he recorded by the three authors above named , disswading from baptizing infants : now whereas mr. marshall professes he stands much inclined to believe that these little ones to whom tertullian would have baptism delayed are to be interpreted of the infants of infidels onely ; and dr. holmes helps him what he can in this , by quoting the words of learned iuni●● upon the place , who is just of the same opinion with mr. marshall , yet lends him as little reason towards it as one can likely look for from so rational a man , i shall immind them first , that vossius on the place quoted by dr. holmes , in one and the same page with iunius , found no good ground to evade the bang tertullian gives to infant baptism in such a fashion , as to say he denies onely the baptism of infidels infants ; how far you will heed him i know not , but he thinks his think thus , viz. not that infants of the faithful are here denied by tertullian , but that nothing is denied by him but onely the necessity of th●se infants baptism , when there 's n● danger of death , because t is said what necessity ? ( if there be no necessity ) defend you your selves if you will , against that consent ( by silence ) of vossius to us in this , that t is all infants to whom tertullian would have baptism delaied ( for that aff●on●s your poor put off ) and i le look to vossius his own put off as well as i can , that he shall not go clear away with it , for my own part then allowing vossius his own thought , i take the like liberty to think otherwise , and the boldnesse to assert the contrary viz. that ●ertullian denies more then a necessity of infant baptism , yea he denies any conveniency or lawfullnesse of the thing also , especially in the testimony cited by mr. blackwood , which the dr. and mr. marshal durst not mention , and clearly enough in those cited by themselvs , for if it behoves them that are baptized to pray , confesse sin &c. which no infant can do , then it behoves us not to baptize them , and if it bring sureties into danger then t is not convenient nor expedient , as well as not necessary , and if it be more profitable to delay it to infants , then we are so by duty bound to do what 's most profitable , and edifying , that to do otherwise is to do that which is unlawful : moreover it being granted , by vossius that tertullian denies but so much as the necessity of baptizing any infants , i le prove thence a necessity not to baptize any , for if there be not more or lesse a necessity of one kind or other viz. vel praecepti vel medii , there 's a necessity at least of letting it alone , for christ commands no ordinance of his without need , and with such indifferency as destroyes all necessity of obeying it , and what way or point of worship was not ordained by himself , is by command from him of such necessity to be declined , that as he who preaches it ( though an angell from heaven ) is to be h●ld accursed , so he that doth thereafter shall have no thank for his labor , for in vain do they worship him , that either teach , or take for doctrines the traditions of men . secondly , and further to prove it , least mr. marshal and the dr. should not grant vossius that tertullians denial is of the baptism of all infants , even of believers as well as infidels , i argue that more plainly . first from the universallity of the expression of himself in his disswasion , which extends to all manner of persons without exception ; for it may be thought he was somewhat soiled with that superstition , which was rife in after ages viz. that baptism was best dispensed towards the end of a mans life , that he might have a sign of the forgivnesse of all his sinnes at once , whereupon tertullian would not have unmarried persons baptized until temptation was over , so far was as he from desiring such early dispensation of baptism as that to infants , i say his perswasion to delay it extends to all manner of persons , and therefore to the infants of believers as well as to other little ones . secondly , his indefinit and indifferent expression of these little ones concerning which he speaks , for ( saith he ) specially about little ones , promiscuously including all , excepting none , as it had bin necessary for him to do if he would be understood to speak but of some , and not of others : for if mr. marshall should preach or write his opinion against the baptism of unbelievers children onely ▪ retaining to himself his present earnestnesse for the baptism of other little ones , and deliver himself downrightly and indifinitely thus onely , in way of dissawsion viz. i would not by any means have little one baptized , i find no ground baptizare parvulos to baptize infants &c. so running on and never distinguishing , so as to say in that sermon or speech , i mean onely infants of infidels , i should not take him for so judicious a man as i yet hold him to be , saving his holding so stiffly still for infant baptism . thirdly , by the reason he gives why he would not have little ones baptized viz. least their sureties should be in hazzard of non-performance of their words , by reason of their own death , or their god childrens untowardnesse , which danger may come as well by baptism of believers infants as of others : as whose sponsors , whether fathers or mothers , or god fathers and god-mothers may die before they grow up , or if they live , be frustrated of their ends by the wickednesse of these children , or god-children also . fourthly , in that he speaks of such children of whom the lord said forbid them not to come unto me , which in the priesthoods own sense at least are believers children , yea and them onely , by which clause according to you he may seem to speak of them onely , rather then of infidels childrens onely , whom you your selves forbid to be brought to christ at all . fiftly , in that he saies let them become christians when they know christ , belike then , if your sense be true , some infants may be warrantably enough made christians before they know christ , but some infants again may not at any hand be made christians till they know christ , which if it were tertullians meaning , as t is yours , he might mean honestly in it ( as you do ) but t is too mean an opinion to keep touch with the word , which never knew any way but one , wherein disciples and christians were made , i. e. of profest faith , repentance and baptism , after they knew christ by the preaching of the gospel . sixtly , in that he saies we should be more wary then to commit divine substance to them , to whom earthly substance is not committed , now we know that earthly substance can be no more wisely committed to infants of believers in their non age then to infants of infidels . seventhly , by one end why he would have them be capable to beg salvation first , viz. that god may seem to give it to them that ask it , which end is destroyed , if baptism be dispensed to believers infants in infancy , for they can no more ask it then the infants of u●believers . eightly , because he saies it behoves them , indifinitely ( meaning all them ) that enter into baptism to pray and confesse sin , &c. which conditions are as exclusive of all infants as of some , those of believers being no more capable to do that then infants of infidels are . ninethly , what ever children he disswaded from the baptizing of here ( and so saith mr. marshall and mr. blake ) its most evident de facto that they were wont to be baptized then , or else there had been no object of his diswasion , therefore if his advice to delay to them , were concerning infants of infidels , then its evident that in tertullians time t was the custome to baptize infidels infants as well as christians , and so if antiquity of infant baptism were an argument of its goodnes , it s as good an argument of the goodness of baptizing infidels infants also , which with you is well-nigh as bad as the other is good . babist . true de facto we have evidence that the baptism of infidels infants then was , but that fathers disswading from it is an argument that t was nought and though crept in yet a thing that was not so from the beginning . baptist. then i hope , if ever you come to be perswaded , and it is a wonder that none of the reasons above be cogent , that t was indeed from baptizing of any children at all that tertullian diswaded , we have an argument of your own for it that the baptism of any mens infants is naught also , and a thing that was not so from the beginning , and so if mr. marshall himself be not by this time sick of tertullian i assure both him and on all that i am , and of all the fathers also , with whom in this controversie i would not have meddled , but that your pamphlet flutters so so with naming the fathers ; and takes i●●ll that testimonies from the fathers were not taken on the day of the ashford disputation : i say again i am sick of them , not so much with fear at the sight of any thing in any of them , that makes against us , for i find nothing that hath the strength of a straw against our way throughout them all , even these few iunior , inferior ones themselves , that are most against us , for the seniors are more fully on our sides , and some of the iunior ones also , as basil , and chrisostome , both in the fourth century , whose words , as mr blakwood cites them p. , . of his storm , are thus viz. first he ought to believe , and after to be sealed with baptism , and if any one have not corrected the transgression of his manners , and hath not made vertue easie to himself , let him not be baptized . which words are exclusive of infants , t is not therefore any disadvantage that comes by them to our cause , which i am sick of , but first , with spending so much time , and searching so much into their testimonies ( as you have compelled me to do ) that me thinks i am out of my element , where i desire to be , i. e. the scriptures , whet●er i le return by and by ( god willing ) especially this last testimony of tertullian , which yet i could not help unless i would for want of help betray the truth , when i saw how mr. marshal , dr. holmes , and others had almost stolen away corrupted and by fair words enticed our old friend tertullian , to serve on their side , for we would not willingly be cousined of what is our due : ye● least any man should think of me above that he seeth me to be , and take me to be a man of much reading , because i talk so much of the fathers , i testify that i am of little further acquaintance with these fathers , for my converse is mostly with ma●thew , mark , luke , peter , paul , iude iames , and iohn , then this controversie hath brought me to , which now is so much that though i honor them , as honest and good men in their times , as finding many things of much worth , and excellency in them , yet for all that i am sick , secondly , with seeing what abundance of absurdities , silly reasons , senselesse anti-scriptural sentences , odd conce●ts , vanities , va●ieties of error , as well as verities , uncertainties whether some of their books be their own or no , mistranslations foisting of what of their own other men please into their works as ruffinus into origen , falsities , flat contradictions amongst themselves , and such like are to be found among them , sufficient enough to cause all men to trust no more to their testimonies , then with their own eyes they see the same testifyed in the scriptures . thirdly , i am sick more yet to find the whole clergy after whom the whole world wonders , and walks in error , wondring so much after these fathers , and walking after them , where they walk in error , and yet neglecting to give heed to them where they speak the truth , and which is worst of all , sleighting the short pure , and plain waies of god , the father of all , of christ our father , and the first fathers next and immediately under god and christ , supreme governors of the church , and givers out of the gospel to the world , i mean the apostles , who in my mind write the way of the gospel , if men were not willing to go astray from it , because it is narrow , self denying , and thorny , though more briefly yet more clearly to any common capacity , then the most voluminous of all the other fathers do , for we use all plaine●s of speech saies paul cor. . wherefore fourthly , and lastly i am sick most of all to consider , what a stirr ministers make in their quotations of the fathers , marching on , and giving such a broad side , as they think , with two or three sentences ou of the fathers , as if they would bear all men down before them , that come near them , no higher read then in the scriptures , no better armed then with the sword of the spirit , the word of god ; for this only is dispised as much as davids sling and stone before goliah , and this too , though in coole bloud the scripture is confessed by themselves to be so instar omnium , that nothing is of any force , but what flowes from it : for though some clergy men dote so far that they believe the fathers , no otherwise then they would have the world to believe themselves , i. e. because ipse dixit , yet some are so wise as to confesse , that how far forth soever the fathers may serve to prove to us things de facto to be done in their several ages , yet their testimonyes de facto cannot prove any thing to us to be de jure at all , whereas if it be so , and ye so it is , i am me thinks become a fool at this time in falling , before i was aware , so up to the ears in contest about a few testimonies of the fathers , as well as i and others heretofote , in counting so extraordinarily on them : wherefore i do henceforth humbly conceive , and confess my self to the people , together with all my fellow father-fool'd friends , viz. the clergy of all christendome , to have been no better then childish and semi-simple so far as such high and holy heed , and such heedlesse submission hath been given by us to these fathers , schoolmen , and other authors , as hath occasioned extreme seduction from the scriptures : hear therefore o thou most miserably be wildred priesthood of the nations , and understand , for so thou shalt if thou return from out of that thick wood of authors , polemical tracts , schoolmen , casuists , tomes , volumes of fathers , councels , commentators , treatises , systemes of theology , framed forms of old and new creeds , long and short catechismes , confessions of churches , &c. in which thou hast wandred and lost thy self from the truth , to the unfeigned study of that little book of scriptures , which alone , if thou wilt be admonished by it , is able to make thee , and them that hear thee wise enough unto salvation : thou speakest what thou hast seen of thy fathers we speak what we have seen of our fathers : what thine teach in their books , we regard not quâ ipsi dixerint , unless quâ dictum prius by our fathers , if they teach no other then what our fathers teach in theirs , it is no more then what thou , having the same scripture , the same liberty , to search , the same promise of the same spirit to guide , the same accesse to god in prayer for it , mayest learn , not at second hand from them , but at first hand from thence , as easily as themselves , but when they go aside , from that , and thou with them , and thine with thee a venture , this seems no other to me then ignis fatuus with a false flash going before , and ignoramus fatnus with his false faith , and a number of ignorants following after . thou tellest us of thy novel antiquity of counsels , national , oecumenicall , of churches greek and latin , of fathes , austin , gregory , &c. and yet confessest thy self that particular churches have erred , and may erre , and if all particulars , then why the universal , which consists of all particulars cannot , thou canst not prove , and that generall councels , which the school-men term the representative church , are sub●ect to error . and have sometimes decreed heresie and falshood for truth , thou confessest by dr. featley p. . of his figment ; and that none of the fathers , nor yet the joint consent of many is a competent judge for faith to hang upon , concerning the right of things , is confest by mr. blake p. . of his to mr. blackwood , and yet ( to go round again ) thou ventest thy self out of the mouthes of others , as if their verdict were enough to warrant , and canonize all that for verity that is vented by them . tell us therefore no more ( as dr. featley doth ) of gregory nor yet of gregory the great , whose testimonies if they were for thee ( but now i think on t they are not , for in the place cited by dr. featley himself , in the very forehead of his book in the next page of all before the fi●st , t is evident that greg. nazianzen was for infants baptism but in case of danger onely i. e. if they were likely to die in infancy , otherwise saith he ( for so mr. den cites gregories words more fully ) in the place which the doctor docks . and custs off in the midst p. . of his answer to dr. featley , otherwise let them stay still they be capable to hear and to answer , and no more to your purpose speaks pope gregory the great , whose words are cited out of mr. fox by mr. cornwell , and out of mr. cornwell by dr. featley p. . . in way of resolution to austin the monk are no other then the same viz. that in case of necessity infants might be baptized as soon as they were born ) yet were their testimonies any more for thee , then they are against thee they could make nothing for thee , as to evince the equity of thy cause . as for our way of baptism , if it were our way onely , we trust we should be against it our selves , but sith it is the onely way of that word , by which all works must be tried , and all persons judged , whose authority alone being absolutely divine , if it were of any esteem with the adversaries thereof , were enough to silence their disputes against it , it will stand though never so many councels and things which thou callest churches , and a gregories were against it . by this time you may see o ye ashford synodians ! how little ground you would have gotten by it if the authorities of the church of god from the beginning , and the fathers of both that and after ages had been used by you , to the advantage of your disputation , when as not onely the primitive fathers of all i. e. the apostles , and the church in their daies , whose authorities you rebell against , are wholly against you , but also the prime of those postern fathers , and the church in their daies , whose authoritie you so stand upon , are nothing fot you . but if by fathers and chutch you should chance to mean either the universall ccclergy , and their ccchristendom , or the christned emperors , kings , and civil governours , that have thrown down their crowns to the clergy , and according to the ccclergies cruel sense and wicked will , have been hitherto nursing fathers , to the christen nations , which they have reigned over , both of which the clergy hath reigned ore and nursed , alias nusled in ignorance to this day rev. . then indeed ( as caiaphas did in an another case ) you speak truer then you are aware of , for their authority alone ( i mean so far forth as it hath acted it self in a way of meer might besides right● if it were of any esteem with such as chuse to obey god rather then man , were enough to silence all disputes against infant-baptism indeed , at least to lay the itch , and quench the heat of them , when not onely the popes paternal precepts , and decretals in the latin church , ( witnesse that of innocentius the third , who decret . greg. l. . ( as cited by mr. cornwel ) enacted that the baptism of infants should succeed circumcision ) but also the imperial lawes and constitutions . as well as synodicall cannons , required infant baptism in the greek church , and that so strictly too ( as mr. marshall himself alledges out of photius p. . . to mr. tombes ) that whatsoever baptized persons would not bring their children and wiues too ( that 's more whereby you may note the goodnesse of those rimes and churches when a baptizd husband was forct to bring his wife as well as his seed to baptism ) should be punished , and who ever denied baptism to a new born infant should be anathematized , or cursed with a most bitter curse : when also ( as dr. featley boasts out of gastius p. . of his book ) at zurick after many disputations between zwinglius , and the gainsayers of infant baptism , the senate made an act that if any presumed to rebaptize ( aliàs baptized such as were falsely supposed to be baptized before ) should be drowned ; and at vienna many , meerly for baptizing such , were so tied together in chaines , that one drew the other after him into the river , wherein they were all suffocated : and at ropolstein , the lords of that place decreed , that such should be burnt with an hot iron ▪ and bear the base brands of those lords in whose lands they had sinned , and p. . out of pontan . catolog . through germany , alsatia and swedland many s of this sect , who defiled their first baptism ( i. e. their no baptism ) by a second , ( a true one ) were baptized the third time with their own blood , i. e. miserably tortured ( as some have bin in england also both old and new ) yea massacred , and murdered by fire and fagot for this , and other resistance of the romish stream , by racking , headings , hangings , pinching with hot pincers , stabbings , and such like wayes whereby the self-preserving common-wealth of clergy men , that they might testifie their cause by the neronean cruel●y of it , to be of christ , who in the th chapter of just no where , charges all his ministers to impower all christian magistrates to imprison , spoil , torment , hang , banish , burn , drown , whip , fine , flea and destroy all such , as in foro hominum synodicantium , non dei , deny his name , have restored those that have to their offence been overtaken with the fault of unfeigned faith , and true obedience in the spirit of meekness , in all ages of their reign . so that if either fear , or fire , or blood , or water were sufficient , there hath hitherto wanted none of all these to suffocate the disputers , to lay the itch and quench the heat of disputes against infant baptism : but as the hast of these times wherein god begins to find the magistrates othor work viz. to curb the christian cruelty of that whore , that hath thus rid them into rigor against the saints , doth forbid the the ministers to be so throughly provided with them as heretofore , so modesty doth to use those knocking arguments now in these times of orthodozism , where in both the clergy , and their bloody tenet of persecution for cause of conscience , are discovered dayly in their colours . how little then the authorities of fathers and churches , in case we grant them to come in thereunto , can contribute to your assistance is apparent , and now that those modern authors you promise your reader such through furniture from viz. calvin , vrsin , and featley upon this subject , and also such others , as ( though you name them not here yet ) have improved themselves more singularly on that single subject , then any of these have done , as little help you , if they be well heeded , i come now in the fourth place to discover . and first , as for your worthy dr. featley , he is so worthily defeated and disarmed of all his artillery by mr. denn , that it were but to attempt the stripping of a naked , and encountring of a wounded man , to meddle much more with his arguments , which are all sufficiently secured , and disabled from doing much mischief ro the true baptism ; onely for his high charges of the anabaptists ( as he calls them ) as a bloudy , illiterate , lascivious , lying , sacrilegious fact , whether they may not more easily be made good against the clergy in general , then against the generallity of them he calls so , may possibly be examined hereaf●er . and as for calvin and vrsin , t is true they are both against us in the maine , but in some things so flatly against you in the mean , that you have as little cause to brag of their assistance of you , as the kirk of scotland had to blesse themselves in the help of their king and his party , who though they were all against england yet were so eager against each other , that they rather weakned each others forces , for thus do you ashford arguers for infant-baptism , and those two champions you seem to crack of , as propugnators with you of the same , who are such strenuous impugnators of their opinions , asseverations and principles about the point , as to debillit●te and raze them down as impious , and impedimental imbecillities : for they cry out ( as i have shewed more at large above ) christus non adimit salutem its quibus adimitur baptismus : quantum damni invexerit dogma illud &c. christ doth not deny salvation to them to whom baptism is denied , what mischief that opinion brings that baptism is necessary to salvation few consider , and the opinion that they are damned who are not baptized , makes as if the grace of god were lesse to us then to the iews &c. and there seems no small injury to be done to the covenant of god not to rest in this principle , that infants are not excluded from the kingdom of heaven , who depart out of this life without baptism , and more of this sort ; so that instead of being strengthned in your last arguments at least , wherein you assert that denying baptism to little infants destroyes the very hope of their salvation , which is as much as to say , baptismum esse de necessitate salutis , and perditos esse omnes quibus aqua tingi non contingit &c. that baptism of infants is so necessary to their salvation , that parents can have no hope of their salvation if it be denied them , and that injury is done to the covenant of god , and that the gospel is worse then the law if infants be not bap●ized , instead i say of being strengthned by these m●ns testimonies you turn us off to , contrary wise you are rather spoiled , and stark strip● of a moity of that argumenrative furniture , whereby you strive to stiffen your selves , and others against the truth , even of no lesse then one or two of those three principal pillars , wherewith you under pin your false practise , and fortifie it from falling flat unto the ground . as for the other men , that together with your selves are up in armes in this age for infant-baptism , so odiously are some of them at odds with you , and among themselves , as also some of you are with them , and among your selves , that it s well nigh enough to render a wise man mad , at least a doubting man more distracted then resolved , to hear , read , and see the wonderful jars , that are among modern divines , as touching the various opinions , ends , grounds and principles , upon which they plead and practise in this point of infant-baptism . for not to speak here of the jarrs , which the baptism of persons in infancy , occasions necessarily between the preachers assertions of baptisms nature , use , offices , ends , and the peoples practicals , and infants capacities , not one of which in infancy appears to the preachers to have any of those things , which they say baptism signs , seals , and is used for viz regeneration , real union with christ by faith , and incorporation into him , participation of his spirit , and confirmation of their faith by it &c. nor one of many , when they grow up to years neither , the most of them whom they so incorporate into christ , and signifie to the world ( by baptism ) that they are without doubt so accepted , and eternally beloved of christ , proving wicked , and rejected of him as much as those , who remain unbaptized till they are at age , of which jars mr. blackwood speaks plainly p. . . . of his storm ▪ to which as little or nothing to the purpose as mr. blake replies , p. . . yet he is answe●ed again in mr. blackwood● rejoinder p. . nor yet to speak of the jarrs that are between the grounds upon which our modern dieines plead infant baptism , and those of the antient fathers , as cyprian and such others viz. his . bishops , which are so silly and ridiculously superstitious , that i am perswaded our divines who live in these dayes wherein truth is comming from under those clouds , which then it was comming under , are ashamed of them , and therefore invent what new ones they can , and let them alone , thus mangling the fathers , and quartering to their own use what they please out of them , and even deifying some , whilest they defy others of their sayings , receiving their words , and witnesse in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that infant-baptism ought to be , as right and rare , rejecting their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or reasons why it should be , as unsound , too rank , stark nought , refuse , and rotten ; but not to meddle ( i say ) with these discords here , my intent is rather ( have patience with me whilst i do it ; but do it i must , whether you take it patiently or no ) to discover the deep discord that is between you modern divines among your selves , which till you are better agreed will make you uncapable of ever subecting others again unto your dictates in infants baptism . babist . is it not a marvel that so many eminent divines , industrious in the study of this argument , should so unanimously jar with their own principles , and not be able to discern it , but all those many must leave it to you to discover it ? baptist. so saies mr. blake indeed p. . of his repulse in a lusory way to mr. blackwood , to whom i seriously reply , yea t is a mighty marvel indeed , to see such an heap of witnesses concur so well together by the years ( as all your famous oxthodoxists do , in their doctrine about infant baptism , some teaching one thing , others clean contradictory to that , and yet all remaining orthodox still for all this . really sirs such a shamefull conjunglement is to be found in your positions about the grounds you profess to go upon in this point , as will in time though now you will not see it , make you all amazed one at another , that ever such a marvellous work and wonder , should fall out among you , as in the just judgement of god for your teaching his fear after mens precepts , there doth at this day , viz : such a hiding of understanding from the prudent that even the princes of zoan should be befooled , confounded , contradicted by none more then themselves , and yet not take notice of it . sirs you had need to synodize one year more , and to catechise one another into a little more concordance about your principles before you catechetically impose that practise upon whole nations , unless your grounds were more agreeable then they are with both the word and each other ; for some of you preach up that your practise , and plead it with all your might from cor. . . taking the word ho●y there as it stands in deut. . - . - . . and other places , where it is most evident that it signifies a people consecrated to god in the same way , as the priests temple , altar , sacrifices , and all things then under the law were , and now nothing at all is , and yet i have known some of you again , that have acknowledged the words sanctifyed and holy in cor. . . cannot be taken in any such sense , but in that very sense wherein we take them , yet supposing infants-baptism to follow from other places ; some of you preach it up and plead it with all your might from mark . . &c. as if you did believe , and would make folks believe , that the children that were then brought to christ were baptized either by him or his disciples , and truly if you believe it not , what is that scripture then to your purpose ? nay it makes more strongly against you for if these very infants that were brought to , and blessed by christ himself , to whom you say he declared the kingdome to belong , were not baptized , your presumption is very high , who dare baptize other infants , of whom you have no such testimony : yea some of you say that their bringing to christ for imposition of hands doth suppose them to have been baptized before they came ( i wonder by whom ) witnesse dr. holmes p. . . yet some of you again confesse the contrary , viz. mr. cotton p. of his grounds and ends , whom dr. holmes so justifies , and magnifies , who in confutation of him saies thus . that it doth not appear that the fathers that brought these infants were baptized themselves , and therefore neither might their children be baptized according to rule . and yet both mr. cotton and his neighbour mr. cobbet also , and even every one else almost that writes , or speaks as well as you ashford disputants , make mighty ado ( but nihil ad rhombum ) from that place also . some of you plead the sprinkling of believers infants ( for none else must be sprinkled by the popes confession , only he takes believers not in so strict a sense as some do ) from act. . . supposing that those to whom peter said the promise is to you and to your children , were believers and already in the faith , even then when he thus bespake them , which if they were t were nothing to your matter , witness mr. vahan of smarden at the dispute at ashford , whose arguments being it seems none of the most material , are excluded from your account , whose supposition was supported with a position as false and silly as it self , yet is it a maxime with the clergy that was then blerted out from among you , viz. that the desire of grace is grace ; in refutation of which your doctrine , appeal was made by your respondent to the people , whether the desire of drink was drink ? and whether because they all desired to go to heaven , therefore they were at heaven ? others again acknowledge the truth in this , viz. that the men were yet in unbelief while peter spake that to them , as mr. cotton p. . of his grounds , who saith thus , when he calleth men to believe , or to repent he cometh to them not as having faith , and repentance , but as wanting both , and mr. prigg also , who hasting into the help of mr. vahan at the ashford disputation , happily more then heartily help the respondent against mr. vahan , and him●elf too by his plain contradiction of the other , and conjunction with the respondent in that , viz. that the men to whom peter then spake in presenti , the promise is to you and your children &c. were not yet in the faith , but the promise was made to them , as they who yet did not , should believe , i. e. in futuro : for ( by your favour gentlemen ) if it be thus , then it should seem , and so t was told you then , but you would not hear it , that the promise of remission of sins , ( though it be made good to believers , and none else , no not to their fleshly seed ( quâ tales ) unless they also believe , when they come to years , for if they be taken away in infancy , both they and all other infants , of whom i find not where god requires faith , so dying may be saved without it , and are too though it cross your cruel conceit of heathen infancy ) this promise i say was made by peter to unbelievers , and their children , yea and is in very deed to all men in the world , and their children , jewes or gentiles , neer or far off , whether , in time or place ; yea to every creature that then was , hath been since , now is , or ever shall be to the worlds end is the promise made mark . , . by christ himself , who is the purchaser of eternal salvation for all men , though actually the eternal saviour of none of those , to whom his gospel is preached , save only such as obey him heb. . . yet none of all this warrants your sprinkling believers infants onely in their infancy , any more then it warrants your sprinkling of so many hundreds of unbelievers infants , as you do still , as striet as you lace up baptism to believers infants onely in the state of your question ; for to say no more then the truth that 's another of your hocus pocus's , which when your customers come to find out , they will be ashamd of you & you of your selves if you be not past it , you i say , yea specially you of the strict presbytery , who cry out upon your parish people as for the most part profane , and ignorant , impenitent , and unbelieving , & in such a wretched condition that except they b● converted they will perish , nor dare you admit them to the supper least they eat and drink their own damnation , and yet their children are the seed of believers with you still , to whom belong the promises , and right to the seals for their sakes . yea ( o ye several parishes where these men preach , not in the city only , but in the countreys of kent , sussex , and other places ) let me apostrophize a little to you , least your clergy should not heed it , if i speak onely to them , have you not heard your teachers thundring you as malignants , for the most part , threatning you to come in and to be reconciled to god , as those that are yet enemies to him , and his people , ( meaning those few that are better friends to them then the major part of you are ) calling to you as crucifiers of christ , and preaching peters doctrine act. . by the halves , saying repent , repent ? for howbeit they should say somewhat more to such sinners as you seem to be in their eyes , viz. repent and be baptized ●very one of you in the name of christ for remission of sins ; yet they put themselves out of all capacity of preaching , and you of practising thus , whilest they make you believe you are aforehand in the business of baptism , because of something like , or rather very unlike it , which was dispensed to you in infancy called sprinkling , which they have sprinkled into the name of baptism : yea have not some of them , kept the lords supper wholly from you all , for as many years together as they have lived among you , and the rest kept back many hundreds of you as wicked , and unworthy from that ordinance , communicating in it with two or three score , upon such like pretence of scripture , viz. what communion , what part hath light with darknsss , christ with belial , the temple of god and idolators , believers and infidells ? for what else can they pretend ? for if you were all believers , and all walking in the light as god is in the light , ye might have fellowship one with another therin , the blood of christ his son cleansing you from all sin ; as to the supper therfore you are unbelievers , yet are you not all , or at least the most of you believers when you have children to be sprinkled ? you are unbelievers when your minister is in the pulpit and at the table , but owned all as believers , while he stands at the font or bason , whose persons for want of faith , repentance , and better behavior they will not admit to the supper : do you not see how you are nosed , and gulled and priest-ridden ? whilest with them you are ungodly persons , and yet godly parents ; church-members and belivers at one time , and yet neither this nor that at another ; one while sheep ( specially at washing and sharing time ) whose little ones are lambs , that must be bosom'd , and brought to christ , and baptized as those to whom the kingdome of heaven , and priviledges of it are intailed , and belong by right of generation , and birth of christian professors , and many such good morrowes : another while , viz. at next communion , that entail is cut off again , you being unbelievers , and perhaps ( to go round again ) at next child you have to christen its tack on again : so that when they are pleased , or rather profitted by that title , you are the flock of god , purchased with his own blood , over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers both to feed , and feed on ; and when they please to improve the power and turn the key of the kingdome upon you , they shut in with an hand ful of their own leaven , as the true turtle , choise church , spiritual sp●use , synagogue of saints , and lock twenty to one of you out from feasting with them , as a company of car●ion crowes , of carnal christians , hateful hangbyes , servants of satan , as a heard of wolves , and goats , and dogs and swine . again , some of you say paedobaptism is a tradition of the church as dr. gouge , who used such an assertion to mr. barber , as an argument to him to take the oath ex officio , and therefore belike , being like to offend his fellowes if he did , he would not at any hand deliver his opinion pro or con in answer to dr. chamberlain , whether the sprinkling of infants were of god or man ? also mr. daniel rogers who saith it is as reverend a tradition of the church as any , but confesses himself unconvinced by any demonstration of scripture for it ; others say it is an apostolicall tradition , and institution of christ , and among these some say there is neither expresse ●or positive command or example for it in the new testament , as mr. hunton , yet good consequence for all that from the old to prove it christs ordinance , yea & as good from the new as there is for women to eat the supper , as mr. marshall , though the best consequence that i ●nd the wisest of you make is to me as far fetcht as peter had the keyes given to him , therefore the pope may sell pardons for money , and save as many souls as he pleases , and that 's a ground or conseqence as far shor● as an improbabillity , yea as an impossibility is to a certainty , in respect of that which is for womens fellowship in the supper , for there 's as much president and precept too for that , as there is for mens , it either women may be disciples , believers , and church members as t is sure they may , and were act. . . . . . . ( though infants , neither were nor can be , till they have learned ) or if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be of the common gender cor. . . expressing both sexes , and as well the woman as the man , as those gentlemen know very well it is , that shroud themselves under so thin a shrub , from the storm that is now lighting on their garisons , as mr. calvin once did , and mr. mar●h●l , and others still do : others not venturing the cause wherein the whole clergy is so neerly concerned upon such a ticklish term , as that of a tradition of the church stand to it that there 's both precept and president for it in the scriptures seeming to yield , that if at least there be not one of them , we have not warrant to meddle with it ; and of this sort i have met with many a one , i am sure with more then one , who when they have in publique disputes bin but put to assign and produce those places where that plain precept and president is contained , they send us to such scriptures where unbiassed men may sooner ●ind the way of a serpent upon a rock then either institution or instance of infant sprinkling viz. for precept to the second commandement exod. . so dr. channel at petworth ian. . . saying that the second commandement enjoines us to observe all the institutions of god and christ from time to time , but not seeing that he was by right to have brought some other scripture first , whereby to prove infants baptism to be one of those institutions which was the thing denied , and not the other , for we grant that all christs institutions are to b● obeyed . without putting any man to carry us so far back to the second commandement to convince us of it , but we deny still that its one of christs institutions that infants should be baptized a●● to mat. . . which was assigned to me both by mr. reading at fo●●●ton . and also by dr. channel at petworth , out of which i making it appear by argument , and by comparison of this with the same passage ( as recorded in other words mark. . . . ) that those , who are bid to be baptized there , are such as are also commanded first to be taught , preacht to &c. therefore not infants , these two men , that might both be worthily renowned ( for ought i know ) in respect of their worth otherwise , were their parts improved as much for , as they are against the truth in this point , and were it not their hap to be yet bes●h●old beside the gospel , as t is in truth , replied both to one & the same purpose , but nothing to their own viz. that when christ saies go reach and baptize , and he that believeth and is baptized , in these expressions he speaks of persons at years , not of infants , for such must be taught first , but that hinders not but that infants may be baptized before teaching : and this is the very common wind away of you all , to all whom ( as to them then ) so i say now again , if the scriptures , and commands of your own assigning do speak of persons at age onely , and there 's no mention at all of children in either of them ( for in those words dr. featley expresses all your minds concerning mat. . mark. . when brought by us against infant baptism ) where are the scriptures that do mention infants , so as to institute their baptism ? if i should assert this that christ commanded that infants should eat at his table , and being put to assign what scripture it s commanded in , should name cor. . . and when it s argued against me to the contrary , saying that place permits them onely to come , that can examine themselves , as infants cannot , therefore t is no command for infants to come , should answer thus viz. there 's no mention at all of children in that text , much lesse any prohibition of infants to come , when paul saies , let a man examine himself , he speaks of persons at years onely , but that hinders not why infants may not come without self-examination , would you not say i were half out of my wits ? yet thus do you all almost ( as well concerning places of your own assigning , as those we bring viz. mat. . mark. . . act. . repent and be baptized act. . if thou believest thou maiest ) return thus viz. those phrases speak of adult ones , and not of infants ; and so say i of these and every scripture else that speaks of baptism , and i trow where is that place that makes mention of any such thing as the baptism of infants ? secondly , in president of which you send us to the housholds , wherein your selves cannot tell that there was any infant therein at all : which is as much as to say and urge ( ab exemplo ) thus viz. t is not certain by any one instance thereof , that any one infant was baptized in those housholds , which are said to be baptized in the primitive times . ergo no doubt but by the same example infants ought to be baptized now . again , some of you urge mat. . as the institution of christ for baptizing men of ripe years at least , yea and infants also ( as mr. marshall ) some of you again deny this , saying that mat. . is not an exact platform of christs commission concerning the matter or subject of the administration of baptism ( as dr. holms p. . ) both which men direct their different doctrines to mr. tombes in order to his direction : but how shall that man be resolved ? which shall he cleave to ? whose words shall he take , the doctors or the divines ? again , some of you say , that semen carnis a fleshly seed is intituled to the promise , ( for even this seed with you is semen fidei ) some of you say semen sidei the spiritual seed onely : i. e. as many as are of the faith ( and so faith the scripture ) are blessed with faithfull abraham , but then semen fidei with you is no other but semen carnis the fleshly seed , and that of such too , as are abrahams seed , not after the flesh , nor after the faith neither : thus you wander in a wood , and trace too and fro in a thicket , moap up and down in a myst , are rapt up in a cloud of confusion , contradiction and unanswerablenesse about the proof of a popish practise , dancing round , and crossing the way one of another ever and anon , and yet ken it not , nor consider how all mens eyes , that are but half open , are half amazed at your shufles . again , some of you pin your practise upon the score of the infants faith , and of these again there are several subdivisions , for some ground it on seminall faith onely i. e. the habit , or on infants having faith , denying utterly their capacity to act it i. e. to believe ( as mr. willcock and many more . ) some again deny that they do build it upon seminall faith , but say they go upon more certain grounds as mr. blake p. . to mr. blackwood , who saith of faith in the root , or of this semniall faith , this faith is not our ground for infants baptism , being undiscernable . some again upon their acting faith , which they assert infants capable to do ( though against their wills ) as well as to have it , as ( to the clear contradiction of themselves ) mr. willcock , and many more do , whilst they with him , and he with them speak of children in this phrase viz. that they do believe , and thus they speak whilest they interpret that clause mat. . . i. e. these little ones which believe in me , of little ones litterally taken , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere i. e. to believe expresses not the habit onely , but the act of faith , as to know , to read , to teach , to love , to learn do sound out non munus , non actum primum onely , but actum secundum also . some of you again put that practise upon score of the parents faith , not the childs , and of these , which are also subdivided , some the faith of the next parents onely , as dr holmes , who in his to mr. tombes p. . . saith thus , the children are not to be baptized whilst the next parents are unbelievers i. e. though the grand parents be believers , and mr. cotton also , who p. . of his book stiled the way of the churches of new england saith thus , god never allowed his church any warrant to receive into covenant the children of godly parents , who lived a thousand years ago , nay rather the text is plain that the holynesse of the children d●pendeth upon the faith of the next immediate parents , or one of them at least , as if the seed of parents were not their seed at two or three generations off ; others the faith of the remote parents , as mr. rutherford pres. p. where he saith , all infants born in the visible church , what ere the wickednesse of the neerest parents is , are to be received into the church by baptism : yea p. joshua had commandement of god to give the seal of the covenant to their children , who were as openly wicked against the lord , as murderers , drunkerds , swearers &c. also mr. marshall and mr. baily who commends mr. cottons lear●ed maintenance of infants sprinkling in p. , and yet contradicts him in this thing , no further off then p. . saying , although the parents are wicked , ( meaning the immediate parents ) yet the lords interest is in the children i. e , not of the ● and th but of the th generation ; and by this shift the ishma●●●ts , the edomites , the turks are of abraham , though not of isaac , and so gods by birth ; yea we and the whole world are of noah , though not of abraham , and so belike must be baptized , and mr. blake in p. . of his birth-priviledge , who saith , if the ground of a childs admission to baptism be not the faith of his immediate parents , but the promise made to ancestors in the faith , whose seed is though at a greater distance , then the loose life of an immediate parent can be no bar to his baptism : this is plain if josia have no right from his father ammon , yet he is not shut out in case he have right from his father david , or his father abraham , yea even all the national clergy ( i think ) excepting your new english , and congregationall men , and lastly they themselves too , witnesse dr. holmes , who p. , makes the remote father abraham he , upon whose belief those iewes in acts . were to be baptized , a●d mr. cotton himself ( aliquando bonus dormitat homerus ) who p. . of his grounds &c. affirms all the seed ( and then surely the seed to many generations as well as the nearest ) to be holy by adoption , and wearies himself , and his reader in about pages , to prove remote abraham to be the parent , upon whose faith the iew shall be taken in at last viz. from p. . to p. . some again put the practise of infant baptism upon the score of neither the childs nor the fathers faith necessarily , but on the faith of christian sponsors , and of these there 's two sorts too , considering sponsors as either witnesses , or sureties , aliâs gossips or guardians : first , some sprinkle them upon the witnesses or gossips faith , thus all that still retain the old english deformation , after which yet the new english christians that were born here , were christ●ed by the priests , saying i baptize thee when they did but rantize , which practise though the directory allow as the ordinary way , yet the common prayer book did not , save in case of necessity , which priests , when they should by right baptize the sp●nsors professing their faith and repentance from dead works , and desires to be baptized in that faith in these words , we forsake them all , all this we stedfastly believe , that is our desire , instead thereof take a child , of what parents it matters not , out of the midwifes arms , putting two or three drops of water upon the face of it , and so there 's an end of the business : this is that which mr. cotton the great gamaliel of new england , though after that fashion possibly himself was sprinkled , is now utterly and bitterly against , professing for himself and those churches p. . of his way of the church of new england , that they know not any ground at all to allow a faithful man liberty to entitle another mans child to baptism , upon the pretence of his own promise to have an eye to his education , unlesse the child be either born in his house , or resigned to him to be brought up as his own , and then he is confident , but from no other law then that of circumcision , from which i may be as confident that males onely , and that on the eighth day , must be baptized , it may be done . some upon the faith of the sureties or guardians , as mr. cotton , who from gen. . . grants , but very doubtfully , and therefore whether damnably or no let him look to it ) so much liberty to a christian sponsor , i. e. surety , that if a stranger , or a very wicked man should give him his child from his infancy , to be brought up as his own , it may be baptized as his own , in confutation of which i le quote no author but mr. cotton , who in that same . page , where he speaks this ; but two or three lines above it saies thus , the covenant is not intailed to sureties , i. e. to such for whom they undertake , but this is the utmost bounds of liberty mr. cotton saies he can give , and i wonder who gave him power to give so much in this case , he allowes a little bit and no more , because he is not sure he may allow that , but ( by his leave ) from that inch i le take an ell , for if a wicked mans child may be baptized , then it may , and then why not a as well as one , in the like case ? and so at least the promise is not entailed to faithful parents only , and their seed , yea his grant p. . intailes baptism to the children that have believing guardians , as well as to such as have believing parents , and so he gives the question , as stated concerning believers children only . some again put it on the score of neither the childs , nor the parents , nor the sponsors faith , but at least either the fathers , or the mothers membership in a gathered church , so as if this be not the parents , though otherwise never so faithful may not have their children baptized : thus the churches in new england , yea and i think all of this indifferent semi-demi-independent way , both in old england , and new , and elsewhere , witness mr. best churches plea p. , . who saith thus , a man must not only be a christian , and by profession , within the covenant only , but also a member of some visible church , and particular congregation ●re his child be baptized . for which mr. rutherford rounds him about again , and takes him to do , p. . ▪ of his presb. and flatly contradicts him thus , saying , baptism is a priviledge of the church , not of such a particular independent church , and the distinction between christian communion , and church communion in this point is needless , and fruit●ess , for none are to be refused baptism whose parents professe the faith , &c. howbeit not members of a settled church . which also contradicts mr. cobbets castle of come down , whose whole structure is settled upon that same dainty distinction of church choice , and true choice ; of this mind also was my beloved friend mr. charles nicolls , of whom i have more hopes yet then i have of every one of his own form , that he will fully own the truth in time , forasmuch as he doth more fully appear for it , against that truth-destroying thing called tythes , then those of his way do in other parts of kent , who either per se , or at least per ali●s take them , not to say rake and rack both christs flocks . and the parish flocks also for them still : which mr. nicolls preaching publiquely at dover in my hea●ing ian. . ( whether he fetch his doctrine out of mr. cobbets book yea or no i cannot tell , in page . whereof the same is found ) declared himself to be of mr. cobbets mind by the delivery of this doctrine , viz. tha● an enchurcht believers natural seed is faederally holy from cor. . . which position i have also since seen under his hands , so narrow a corner is the ease crouded into now , that it is not the believing , but the enchurcht belieuing parent , i , e. who , leaving the perochiall posture , betakes himself to membership in some seperated society , who sanctifies the unbelieving parent and the seed , else were the children unclean , but now are they holy , i. e. from the time of one or both parents entering the borders of a seperated society : and so by this means if an old man or woman that hath ten or twenty children , the youngest whereof is no less then twenty years old , they all though never so morally wicked , yet from thenceforth are faederally holy , but not before , no though their parents believed before . upon this account the churches in new england deny their nullity sprinkling to infants of such parents , as are either not yet joined to them , or ( for which they are very oddly also at odds among themselves ) excommunicate from them : in justification of which gambole , mr. cotton lapps himself up in such a manglement of discourse p. . to the . as betokens , that wisdome is perishing from the wise for mans tradition sake , which they hold up against christs institutions : yea he sticks not to assert p. . th●t the apostles and evangelists gathered men whom they baptized , into a visible church estate before they baptized them , unless they were church-members before they preached to them . which is as if he should say they brought them first into the visible church , that they might be baptized , and then ( to go round again ) baptized them that they might be brought into the visible church , for unlesse he contradict all those thousands of old england ( now becoming new , whilest new england growes old ) who after sprinkling still used this phrase , viz. we receive this child into the congregation of christs flock , as in the english refined masse-book the priests universally did , preaching baptism to be the entrance into the visible church , not in word only but in deed also , by placing their fonts at the church doors , unless i say he be contrary to all paedobaptists , who hold baptism to be the way into the church , and not the visible church the way into baptism ( and then what another cross whet doth he wipe them with ) we must needs take mr. cotton in that manner , and yet to say the truth the clergy is cross eno●gh to themselves in this case , for this is but like that of them that say , believers infants are born in the bosome or within the pale of the church , and so must be baptized , and must be baptized , and so enter within the pale of the visible church , or else they are out , and in no better condition than the children of turks and pagans . what prety gim-cracks are here ? yet surely not much above the tyth of those round abouts , and contradictions to themselves , and one another that are to be found among the paedorantists , should i stand upon a full discovery of them , but verily i am weary to see old england , new england , and scotland all together by the ears about their infants sprinkling , and had rather if it were possible gain them all to be at peace in that point by laying down their dispensing it any more to infants ; and pitching all upon the undoubted subject of true baptism i. e. a professed believer , without which it is impossible to reconcile them till they have routed each other , and stormed themselves out of their strongest garrisons with their own hands . among whom ( and so to make an end ) what hold , and keep is there likewise about the sprinkling of basta●ds , may be seen by mr. cotton page . of his way , &c. some and those the best divines holding the baptism of bastards , but not sine sponsoribus , i. e. not without witnesses or sureties . others holding it without witnesses ( for ought i find ) of which sort is mr. cobbet , who brings in bastards to baptism by a certain fetch beyond his fellowes , viz. the faederal interest of those bastard infants that are born in the church , saying , though the parents faith do not sanctify such , yet the force of abrahams covenant fetches them in ; which i much marvel at sith the law , or covenant of circumcision admitteth not such into the congregation unto the tenth generation . others again denying that the scripture warrants any such thing at all ; as the admitting of bastards to come by baptism into the congregation , as his neighbour mr. cotton , who gives liberty to christian sponsors to entitle wicked mens children to baptism by their undertaking for them , yet can scarce find in his heart ( for ought i find ) to allow them the like to entitle a bastard , alledging out of deut. . . that in the old testament a bastard was not to enter into the congregation of the lord unto the th generation ( and so indeed he was not upon any terms for ought i see , whether the parents repentance or the childs good behaviour when at years , after once that particular statute was delivered ) yet takes upon him to deviate from his old testament rule so far himself , as to admit such a one into the congregation , and to baptism , either when the parents repent , notwithstanding his bastardy , or when the child professes better in his own person , p. . . by which kind of often interfearing of so able a man as mr. cotton , i perceive and therefore believe , believe and therefore speak it , that the nearer men come from rome towards reformation , if they come not to the perfection of it according to the word , the more miserably a great deal are they bewildred with any human tradition , that is remaining among them unremoved , in so much that the papacy is lesse troubled with contradictions , quarrels , quirks and foolish quiddities about their infants sprinkling , then praelacy , praelacy then presbytery , presbytery then independency : for though they hold none but believers , and that all those are to be baptized , yet the pope carries it clearly to all infants born in his christendem without streining , these being all believers with him , as in opposition to turks . the prelate to the infants of protestants onely , that are his believers , in opposition to papists . but the high-presbyter to the infants of protestants universally , though with him not of in his parish are believers , when they administer the supper . the independent to none but the infants of those that are inchurch● with him , though himself believes there are s of believers that are not of his way : those i say that are most reformed in other things , are more muddled , and lesse capable to maintain that popish practise of infant-sprinkling , then those that are deformed in all other parts of outward order besides it , and as they stand in the narrowest streit to hold it up , so are they for the most part at the nearest step to lay it down , not a few discovering dayly more and more the absurdity , and unsuitablenesse of it to so pure a posture as they pretend to , and [ quod fieri non debuit factum valet ] availing more to the keeping off many from the true way of baptism , then any arguments they have , whereby to satisfie themselves in the sufficiency of that way of sprinkling . thus we see what a laborinth you clergy-men would lead poor creatures into , if they should follow you , yea i know not how a man can follow you , unlesse he go nine wayes at once , such noniformity there is among you , some saying this , and some that , and some you wot not well what your selves . what pretty checker work is there in your judgements about one and the same thing ? wherein you would be unanimous and uniform if you would return all unto the truth . o how doth babell come tumbling down by this division of tongues , even as when theeves fall out , true men come to their goods , even so su●ely will the true church come at last to the understanding of this truth , even that no infants at all are to be sprinkled , when they shall see what a do there is about it among divines , and how they would hold it if they could tell how , and say something for it if they could tell what : the disputers and scribes will scuffle one with another till their poor people , not knowing which to follow , will at last betake themselves to leave them all , and follow christ. what sirs is the gospel , the plain simple gospel , such a maeander as this ? is christ thus divided ? were paul , peter , and barnabas , and iohn , and the rest of the apostles and ministers , whose successors you all say you are , but are not in very deed so intricately intangled in vain janglements about one and the same question , as you are both among and within your selves , so that your answers and accounts for your practise hang together more conjangletine , then conjunctim ? but no marvel if the cat winckt , when both her eyes were out ? you draw nigh to god ( o yee priests ) with your mouth , and honor him with your lipps , but have for the most part of you removed your hearts far from him ; and your fear towards him is taught after the precepts of men , therefore are ye drunken , but not with wine , you stagger , but not with strong drink , for the lord hath powered upon you the spirit of deep sleep , and hath closed your eyes , you prophets , you rulers , you seers hath he covered ; you have disserted the truth , and are degenerated into a counterfeit kind of baptism , that never descended from above , that hath stood now of a long time jure ecclesiastico , but not jure christico , and so the best of you know not how to hold it , now the truth returns from the land of her captivity , without fidling , and faining , and patching , and shifting , and such shameful ridiculous thwarting of your selves , and one another with yea and nay in your joint prosecution of one and the same cause as will , if you reform not in time , object as much to the ha ▪ ha-he of that part of the christian world , that yet wonders after you of the protestant clergy , as other popish toies have done the papacy to the papè of such as once wondered after them ; give over therefore your dabling of infants faces , and baptize believers by profession , cast away all your wood , hay ; and stubble , which cannot endure the trial by the light of that day , that is now approaching , and begin the gospel again as it was in the beginning , is now , and ever shall be ( in this world ) world without end , amen . thus sirs ( saving your vain boasting what innumerable arguments , and such through furniture from scripture , from reason , from the churches , and fathers authority , from more modern authors , amongst whom you mention calvin , vrsin , dr. featley ) i have shewed that scriptures are against you , that reason is against you , that the primitive church and fathers are against you , that the immediately sub-primitive church and fathers are against you , that the praepostern-church and fathers are ( though some against you , some for you ) so little to be regarded in their testimonies , in respect of the superstition of their times , that if they were all wholly for you they prove nothing de jure ( as nei●her do the testimonies of the more antient fathers by mr. marshalls and mr. blakes confession ) that though the clergy , and all christendome , pope , civil powers , and people have been so fully for you for ages together , as that they have persecuted all that have been against you , yet this shewes the badness of your cause by the bloudiness of it , and so makes more against then for you ; that two of those three authors of your own alledging are as much for you , as men can be that are opposite to you , for they ( as ignorantly as your selves ) own your practise , though they disown , and overturn one or two of the prime pillars , and grounds you practice from : that the third , viz. dr. fea●ley , is killed as dead as a door-nayle by mr. den , and that your selves , and the other sticklers that still stand up in your cause , are so miserably imbroiled in civil wars , divisions , diversities of design to bring about the same thing , contradictions , clashings , ayes , and noes among your selves , that you can never make an handsome head against the truth , till your matters hang more harmoniously together : so that nought remaines in which you can hope , ( unlesse your self excusing , quarter crying epistle to the reader , which is also answered , can stead you ) but your forlom hope of these three following arguments , which are more then half laid sprawling already , and that tottered troop , and ragged regiment of scufflers against reason , and that scare-crow that comes up in the rear of the review , and that patheticall summons of all the pastors to come in , and succour you , and oppose the growth of anabaptism , by preaching what they can against those hereticks the anabaptists , but disputing no more with them , because the effects of disputing with them are dangerous . all which by then i have dispatch a little more dispute with , whether i shall be more weary of writing or you of reading this , as i know not well , so it matters not much , i shall its like give over then however . first then to the first of your three arguments that ensue . review . the first is taken from the universall practise of the church of god , which the adversaries would not hear of at the disputation . the grounds of it are expresse texts of scripture , mat. . . lo i am with you alway to the end of the world . iohn . . the comforter shall abide with you for ever . ver . . the spirit of truth . ver . . who shall teach you all things , and bring all things to your remembrance which i have told you . iohn . . . he will lead you into all truth : the argument is this . to hold that christs promise is not true , is damnable blasphemy : but to hold that the universall church hath erred in so necessary a matter as baptism , and that for so many hundred years , is to hold that christs promise is not true , his promise of being with his church , of guiding it by the spirit into all truth . ergo , to hold the vniversall church hath so erred is damnable blasphemy . if the anabaptists object , that the church of rome useth this argument for her traditions ; the answer is , that those traditions which she pleads for were neither universal nor doctrinal , as this of baptism , and therefore the exception against her was just , and those errors which she defends by that , were denyed to be of the universall church : but the anabaptists can never prove , that this practise hath not been universall , or dare not say , that this matter is not doctrinal . re-review . this argument is so far from having any substance , and weight in it toward the demonstration of the truth of infant-baptism , that it is not so much as a topicall syllo gism , but meerly sophisticall , so that any that are never so little learned in logick may discern it to be the fallacy called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ignoratio elenchi , in which is proved aliud a quaesito , i. e. quite another thing then that which is by us denyed , in which illud infertur , ut contradictorium negato , quod revera non con●radicit : it doth not at all conclude the point in question : for that you are to prove is not that it is damnable blasphemy to hold that the universal church hath erred in baptism , but that to deny infant-baptism is damnable blasphemy , toward the direct and legitimate illustration of which bold charge , wherewith you assault us , viz. that our denyall of infant-baptism is damnable blasphemy , you ought of right to have made this pro-syllogism , viz. to hold the universall church hath erred in so necessary a matter as baptism is damnable blasphemy . but to deny the lawfulness of infant-baptism is to hold that the universall church hath erred in that matter of baptism . ergo , to deny infant-baptism is damnable blasphemy . the major of which pro-syllogism we do not put you to the trouble of proving , neither do we hold any such thing that the universall church hath erred in baptism , any more then you , for the primitive church did not erre in it , though you do ; yet how do you belabour your selves here to prove what we deny not ? but the minor of that pro-syllogism , which we do deny , as being indeed in it self most peccant , and apparently false , ( for to hold infant-baptism to be an error is not to conclude the universal church to have erred , for the universall church hath not held it ) the prove of this you evade , and most serpentinely slide away from , never medling with it at all , unto a business you might as well have spared your pains in , and fall a syllogizing upon us in the self same sophisticall way as rome doth for her popes supremacy , and all other her traditions , for thus say they indeed when they summon us back again to their fopperies sub paena damnabilis blasphemiae viz. to hold christ promise is not true is damnable blasphemy . but to hold that the universall church hath erred is to hold christs promise not true . ergo , to hold the universal church hath erred is damnable blasphemy . so for the popes supremacy thus . that which is above all the members hath supreme authority over them all . but the head of the church is above all the members . ergo the head of the church hath supreme authority over all . which syllogisms are both fallacious per ignorationem elenchi , for in this last there 's concluded what is not questioned , for the question is not whether the head of the church have supremacy over all or no ? for none denies but that it hath , but whether the pope be at all that head ? that is it which we deny , and they take perforce for granted from us before we have yielded it , or themselves proved it , and so proceed to have more mischief by it : so again in the first the question is not whether the universal church hath erred or no ? but whether rome be that universal church or no that cannot erre ? or whether those traditions she practises , ( among which infant baptism is said to be one by cardinal bellarmine , and is taken by mr. rogers to be the most reverent ) have bin universally practised or no ? which we deny that they were , for the first gospel church knew none of them , and so they are not universall : which romish sillygisms the best logicians among the protestants are so far from answering so formally , as you strive to do to the first of them in this place , that they rather explode them as silly and sophisticall , and so must i do yours , which is not onely istius-modi , but in terminis the very same with the first of theirs . therefore good sirs fall back a little , and begin again , and make a prosyllogism or two if you please , before this syllogism takes its turn , and do not beat the air , and let flie such hot bullets , as accusations of damnable blasphemy , before you have any adversary appearing against you : for verily you first falsely suppose us your opposites in that , wherein we agree with you , and bestir your selves to fight us in such a fierce fashion , as if you would fright us out of our cause before you come neer us , and set your selves to prove that , which whoever doth yet , i for my part do not deny ; for verily t is the minor , and not the major in the prosyllogism , which we quarrel with , and as for this syllogism of yours , i honour it not ●o farre as to own it : neverthelesse if it be lawful to make a formal answer to an unlawful argument , and least you take it ill , and think much on 't if i sleight it so as to give no other reply then that above , i le make bold to answer it now it s brought by you for infant-baptism , as you do when the same is brought by rome for other traditions viz. that this tradition you plead for is not universally practised : therefore taking your words in a true sense , and in their largest latitude , though i dare not be so damable in my doctrine as you viz. to bring every one under blame of damable blasphemy who holds a possibility of error to befall the universal church i. e. the whole state of christs church , which is but imperfect here on earth , yet can i not say , nor do i that in esse actuali the universal church hath erred in the practise of this point of baptism , so as that she hath been totally diserted by the spirit of god , and that christ hath not made good his promise to her any more then your selves : yea really if you use the word [ universal church ] in its due and proper extent viz. in respect of both time and place , and in the like latitude , in which dr. featley ( from whom you borrowed this argument and some of the rest , and might as well have sent us to him for it , as troubled your selves to hold it out here in a new harnesse ) uses the word [ universal church ] as expressing all the assemblies of christians in the world , that ever were from the apostles dayes to this present , which he stiles the formal church , this universal church cannot be impeached with error in the point of infant-baptism , for it hath not universally owned it , neither was it in use from the beginning , there have bin some ages and places wherein the churches practised baptism so agreeably to christs will , that you shall never be shent by him as failing in that point if you do it no otherwise then it was done then and there viz. the dayes and places wherein the primitive churches dispenst it , for they were all so wholly strangers to your infant baptism , that not so much as the sound of such a thing was ever heard among them : and howbeit dr. fea●le , tells us a tale p. . out of origen on the romans ( whose originall is lost , and into which work of his on the romans t is shrewdly suspected by the learned , that ruffinus , and the romans have sophisticated such a sentence , that the church had infant-baptism from the apostles ) and thence very goodly grounds . a positive argument of very great moment ( saith he ) that may convince the conscience of any ingenuous christian , viz. that the apostles in their dayes began to baptize infants , and the whole catholique christian church in all places and ages , even from the apostles dayes , hath admitted the children of christian parents to holy baptism , therefore t is no error . yet i must tell you that origens bare word , and single say so ( if it were his own ) is no warrant , whereupon all men may safely , muchlesse must necessarily believe it was so : but the word of the new testament , of which the apostles mostly were the pen-men , is warrant enough to us to believe that it was not so , were the word onely silent about it , how much more whilest it hath so much against it , that we may say t is exclusive of it ; howbeit therefore you say that infant baptism hath been universall , it is sufficient proof of its non universallity in that you can never prove that it hath been universall , and we have proved that in the apostles dayes it was not so , that in the first century t was not so , nor in the second for ought any man living can possibly shew , how ere it began to creep in about the third , and howbeit it hath been never so universally and erroneously practised from the fourth or fifth centuries till now , yet neither will it follow that the universall church hath practised it , nor that the universal church hath erred in it , nor that christs promise mat. . . ioh. . . . . . . concerning the spirits abode and guidance is not true , for that 's not more made , then made good to those that perform the condition and terms , on which it was made viz. the observation of what he commanded , in which case the spirit is ever present , and ever was and shall be with those few that keep the truth ; as for the most , when they began to dote on mens teachings and traditions , and to fashion themselves more at a venture after the words of the wise and prudent , then after the word of god it self , and to idolize the dictates of synods , and ghostly fathers , so as blindly to subject themselves to their sentences , as their onely oracles , then terras astraea reliquit , christ who did ingage to lead them by his spirit , who would be led by it , was dis-ingaged , and true enough in his promises , though he left the world to lie in darknesse , and to be filled with their own wayes , and with the fruits of their own inventions . moreover t was not the church , in the capacity of a church in respect of outward form and order , but his disciples to whom that promise was made , to whom also it was performed , and made good in all ages according , and in such measure as they kept close to him , for in the time of the treading down of the temple and holy city , and the true worship and worshippers , and of all that visible fabrick and church posture which stood in the primitive times , and even in the grossest darknesse , god gave power to his two witnesses i. e. by his word , and spirit in the hearts and mouths of his saints , impowered them to prophesie and testifie to the truth against the traditions of rome , and against infant baptism as well as other of her superstitions , and heresies , how else could bernard have said ( as he doth serm. . super cant : ) of some that opposed the corruptions of his time , they laugh at us because we baptize infants , because we pray for the dead , and require the prayers of saints : yet even to those martyrs that did witnesse to some truth in times of ignorance , the light was ( though not so totally and terribly , as to the rest of the world ) much ecclipsed ore now it is , and that promised manifestative presence of christ not a little interdicted , and communion with him interrupted by the interposition of that smoak , which comming out of the bottomless pit clouded the sun , and thickned the aire , and as christ himself foretold also it should be , iohn . . by the intervening , of the prince of the darkness of this world , who was to have his time , wherein to darken all things , and had it too , so that by his delusive wiles the whole world was won to be once an arrian , and after that an antichristian , worshipping the dragon and the beast , wondering and erring all together into one catholique church-body called christendome , and by common consent bearing the whore , or false ministery , called clergy , warring at her will against the saints , and though not finally ( for so the gates of hell cannot ) yet or along time prevailing against them that dwell in heaven , rev. . , , , . in all which time nevertheless ( as i said before ) some truths were revealed to some , and so much to such as then sought to christ , and not to men , as may well serve to verify christs words , and justify all the promises of his presence with his people , as to the true purport of them , as yea and amen . babist . but where was your church then all this while till these latter times ? baptist. where it was to be according to the word of prophecy , rev. . . viz. troden underfoot , for years by the nominall christians , or gentiles coming by the lump into the outer court , i. e. into a bare name , and feigned form of christianity after the time of constantine , at the compulsive call of the clergy ; since when though there have been an number of saints in sackcloth , that have seen much light from christ , and suffered for it , yet i am so far from undertaking to prove there was , that i am rather of the mind there was not , nor was to be ( if the word be true ) any truly collected , truly constituted visible churches at all in right outward form , and order , standing upon that true foundation , i. e. the principles of the doctrine of christ , and the primitive prophets and apostles , for many ages upwards ; even from the clergies carrying the church captive into babylon unto these daies , wherin the foundation ( heb. . . . with eph. . . . . ) which hath been razed is laid again , and the measuring line gone forth upon the temple , is in the hands of the true zerubbabel , christ iesus , who shall also finish it , not by army , nor by strength , but by my spirit saith the lord of hosts . if this answer be not satisfactory that our churches are true ones , unless i can prove a lineal succession of them from the apostles times to these , let me see what lineal succession is of your churches from the apostles daies , if i ask you praelatick priests ( as the masse priests do ) where was your church before luther ? and you presbyterians where was your church before calvin ? in both whose daies you cannot deny , but that of those that denyed infant-baptism there were abundance ; must you not needs see both your churches swallowed up in the sea of rome , and for ages and generations together , making one with that ? were not the two little heads of the roman eagle spoken of esdras . . which are the two smaller kingdomes of the clergy , i. e. prelacy , and presbytery , making one head with the great one , i. e. the popedome , till of late they separated from him . first sure i am you may labour till you are weary , and look till your eyes fail before you find a series of visible protestant churches before luther , and as universal as you protestant priesthood do proclaim your selves , and your church to have been , yet i tell you t will puzzle you to derive your pedigree from the apostles , if the pope put you to prove it by induction , and ennumeration of churches , succeeding without interruption , unless you will own him to be your father , as to your clericall function you are fain to do . whereupon in the book stiled luthers predecessors , or an answer to the question of the papists ; viz. where was your church before luther ? p. . . i find it ingenuously acknowledged by the nameless author thereof , in his undertaking to answer that question , that if the papistry the protestant to assign any visible constituted church , which might have been known by the distinction , and succession of bishops , elders , deacons , &c. the task is unequal , and that records of such a thing are wanting , insomuch that he puts it off in replying to the papists , thus . that they cannot prove that the church must alwaies be in such manner visible : that in elias time there were unknown to him , much more to ahab : that in christs passion some papists say the church was in mary , the church being like the moon , allwaies lasting , yet not alwaies in the full . and then in resolution to the quaere it self alledges not any one protestant church at all , but onely here and there a protestant professor , as wickliff , and such mostly as were after him inlightned by his doctrine , and did suffer for giving testimony thereto : so the iesuitish question is thus answered . i find it also thereupon the file , that in a conference which was once held upon the same question by dr. white , and dr. featley against two others , viz. fisher , and sweet , dr. featley chose rather to prove a continual succession of protestants by the truth of their doctrine , then the truth of the protestant churches and doctrine by a perpetuity of succession ; and so doth that author himself who ever it was , that wrote the answer to that papistical question , as well aware that protestant churches cannot prove themselves true by succession p. . . what saith he if we could not prove that the english church was before luther , must it needs follow that the doctrine we hold is untrue ? or shall the doctrine of rome be ever the truer because of antiquitie only ? no certainly , and why not ? because the church must be proved and allowed by the doctrine , and not the doctrine authorized by the church , which the papists ( a people wise in their generation ) well knowing have overturned the course of nature , and will have the scripture , and all doctrine to hang upon the determination of the church , hoping that if once they have amazed any one with the name of the church , and driven him from title and interest in the church before luthers time , they shall easily call in question the whole frame of the doctrine of the reformed churches . so that we see the protestants are fain to fence off the papists arguments from universality , antiquity , perpetuity , in which rome outstrips the reformed churches , with pleading only the verity of their doctrine , and its being persecuted in some few professors of it before luther . yea verily if universality , perpetuity , or antiquity either ( i mean that post primitive antiquity of the fourth or fifth century ) may pass for president more current then the primitive , the pope and his priesthood may prove the protestant priesthood to be but upstart novices to them by this way of arguing from the antient , perpetual , universal practise of their church . i write not this as taking the papists part against the protestants , for so far am i from justifying the iesuites , that i rather fight with dr. featley , and his friend against them in this case , holding with them that no succession of true visible , and rightly constituted churches can be shewn of either your way , or ours in all that time of popish unity , and universallity , but i do it to this end onely , ut hos suo iugulensus gladio ( as dr. featley saies of us p. . ) that i may fight against featleys followers in the point of infants baptism with featleys own fauchin i. e. sa●isfie them concerning the narrownesse , novelty , and invisibility of our church in times of popery , when they say , where was our church before nicholas stock ? the very same way and no other then that , wherin they excuse the non-appearance of their protestan●s churches then to the iesuits , when vaunting in their own visible universallity they ask , them where was your church before luther ? for verily if it must be taken from you by the papists , as evidence good enough that your churches are the true churches , and lineally descended from christ , though none of them ever visibly appeared before luther , in all that time of the popes peterdome ore his fellows , because your doctrine is truer then that of theirs , and specially since several witnesses successively held it out against romes contradictions , then i hope it shall be taken from us by you protestants as good evidence that our churches are yet truer then yours , and such as have been as much as yours have been in visible constitution from the time of the treading down till this modern resurrection , because our doctrine and practise is that of the primitive and purest times , specially since we can evince it as clearly , that many witnessed the truth of it against infant-baptism , in times of priestly tyranny , as you can that any have witnessed yours at all . for howbeit you say your infants baptism was not so much as questioned , till of late , if you had your wits so well about you as you should , you could not but see that t was almost ever opposed : for though it were never heard of in the first century , yet that it hath been ever withstood since it came up , is most evident by the conflicts of corrupt times for it , for what made such controversies among the fathers about it ? what m●de cyprian and his bishops conven'd in councel , lay their heads together to find ou● such superstitious stuff ( as your selves are ashamed of ) wherewith to support it ? what made bernard complain that t was laught at among other ridiculosities as praying to , and for the dead ? what made imperiall lawes , and synodical cannons enjoin it under such strict penalties ? what made pope innocent . who together with the bishops , and all the rest of the clergy , which in the councel of lateran determined transubstantiation , confession , were called fooles and block-heads , seducers of the people , hereticks and blaspemers by iohn purvey one of wickliffs followers p. . of luth. praedec . what ( i say ) made that innocent among other things decree so strictly , as he did , that the baptism of believers infants should succeed circumcision , if that tradition found no traitors which sought the death on t , and if the risers up against it were hardly heard of before luther either then the verity of doctrine in churches , reformed from romes downright dotage , doth prove as dr. featley sayes well it doth , a perpetual duration of it , so that it must needs have professors in all ages , or it proves it not : if not , then the main argument whereby dr. featley defends protestanism , to have been perpetually before luther , doth not vindicate you in your religion from the name of novellists any more then us , and so the pope by his plea for the verity of his church from perpetuall visibility , universality &c. carries the cause clean from us all ; but if it doth , then as we deny your infant-baptism to have been perpetuall , because its false doctrine , and our church and way of baptism we hold in contradistinction to you , being as consonant to the word and primitive pattern as the truest of those doctrines you hold in contradistinction to the pope , is vindicated by featleys own argument ▪ to have been as perpetually before luther , as the purest piece of protestanism , and party of protestants whatsoever . again , an ennumeration of a successive number of particular persons barely professing the truth in the times of all christendoms erring from it , but not visibly constituted into any right church form or order , either doth prove christ and his spirit to have been with his people alwayes , and in all ages according to his promise and consequently his promise in that particular to be true , notwithstanding the wo●●ds so universal erring for a time , or else it doth not prove it : if such an ennumerarion of single professors successively witnessing to the truth against romish error doth not clear christs promise to be true , then your selves are as justly charged by the iesuites , who use the same argument against you , that you use against us , to be guilty of that damnable blasphemy of den●ing christs promise to be true , as we are charged to be guilty of it by your selves , for as much as all that you say towards the salving of christs promise of his perpetual presence with your church , while he left rome , from fault of falshood , is but an induction of certain persons , that before luther testified to your doctrine ; yea he that answers the iesuites question sayes no more , confessing that a succession of protestant churches cannot be shewed ; but if it doth prove christ his promise to be true , then i hope it serves to prove it in our case as well as yours , or else it s a hard case indeed , forasmuch as though a perpetual succession of such visible churches as ours are , is not to be shewed through all ages of the clergies crushing down the truth , yet we can give as full evidence of a sort of single saints , that testified against infant-baptism , even in those times , as you can of such as testified against any other popish tradition whatsoever . by this time you may see the fore-man in your for-lorn hope , that is sent before as a subtil scout in a sophistical coat , to entrap us , is not onely discovered in his drift , but divested also of his deceitful dresse , disarmed and disabled from your service , and laid a bleeding : neverthelesse sith he opens his mouth , and prates against us still with malicious words , falsely charg●ng us again , and bespattering us what he can with his tongue , because he sees he cannot hurt us with his teeth , we shall be constrained to lend him one or two blowes more toward the dispatching of him out of the way , and then we shall be ready to meet with the force that follows . review . and indeed they do conclude the whole church of god to have erred most fearfully , in one of the most necessary points of religion , as if she had been totally deserted by the spirit of god , and christ had not made good his promise . re-review . first i observe that , when ever it seems best to serve your turn so to do , you stile baptism so necessary a matter , one of the most necessary points of religion , about the administration of which to erre is most fearfully to erre , lit●le lesse then downright damnable : otherwhile again , as when you would modifie mens spirits towards your proceeding in infant baptism from proceeding so eagerly against that practise , in case it should prove to be the error , and ours the truth , then you speak as diminutively of it as may be , as if it were a matter which it matters not so much whether it be done your way or ours , in childhood or at years , by dipping or sprinkling , so it be done , an error which is not worth so much ado and striving to reprove and rectifie as the anabaptists make , of such indifferency , that t is not fit , sith t is now the custome , that the peace of the church should be disturbed about it , as if this truth of the church , though troden down , must not have an hand lent it to help it up again , for fear of displeasing and awaking the church from her sweet sleep of superstitious security till she pleases , not so fundamental a defection which hand soever it lies , but that it may be left ad libitum , dispensed ad placitum , so that such as will have their infants sprinkled may , and such as will not or cannot be satisfied that is the true baptism , may chuse , and be baptized themselves if they please or not at all if they please , and yet not be disowned so far one by another , but that they may ( notwithstanding different judgements in so fiddling a thing as that is ) fall together ( but it will be by the ears sure at last ) into one fellowship ; and i know not how much such prety prate doth passe from your partie sometimes , to lull us in as it were to wink at small faults , and to make no noise about such a petty matter , if infants baptism should be ( as many priests know it is , e. g. dr. gouge , yet know it not ) no more then a meer tradition of men , at pater ut gnati sic nos debemus amici , si quod sit vittum , non fastidire . — what a deal of patheticall , popisticall perswasion to this purpose as to pacify peoples spirits towards your errors in small points , passes from you p. , . of your paper , viz. to avoid a querulous conscience , misliking , finding fault , complaining , taking offence at every thing where there is no cause , streining at a gnat , giving over the company of the flock [ of more goats then sheep ] for every rub [ alias refusing to reform [ seperating from the congregation [ alias the parish church of the popes congendring ] for a ceremony [ alias some small thing , which to synodical prudence it hath seemed good to add to the ordinances , of christ , as if his wisdome had not made things full , and fine enough e. g. the surplice , the forced gesture of kneeling before the railes and altar , yoking of sheep and swine together in the supper , and in baptism the crosse , the form of sl●tting two or three drops of water with wet fingers on the face , instead of dipping and orewhelming , and this too but to an infant instead of a professed believer , by which ceremonious quirks , they brought in not so much alterationem , as alterum , and ceremonized the whole substance of what christ required quite away ] to endeavour after a true temper of a son of the church , humbly to submit to the judgements of others sooner then our own [ alias to see through the priests eyes , and say we see it not what ever we see to the contrary ] not to dare to contend with any much lesse superiors [ alias popes , counsels , whole classes of clergy men , for they will bite mic. . . ] without strong and evident and convincing reason for our assertions [ which if we have not for our baptism against yours , never men had in any controversy since truths resurrection from under the pawes of the pope , and priesthood to this day ] not to see things amisse [ alias go on hoodwinkt with implicit faith ] if we cannot but see things amisse , to hide and cover them , specially the nakednesse of our father , and shame of our mother [ alias the pope , and clergy out of whose loines , and the catholique christendome , in whose womb almost all error is ingendred , least if their spiritual fornications should be rendred too discernable , reformation should prove too desirable , and that too destroyable to their enjoyments ] not to let a light matter [ alias so light ahd vain a thing as the vanity of infant-baptism ] work dislike in us , much lesse departure and divorce , not to depart by seperation save in case of a great and unfufferable crime [ alias some worse and more fearful error , then can well be about the dispensation of baptism ] of which there 's dispair of redresse , which was the protestan●s case with the church of rome [ and our case also with the protestant nations , in which though we reprove them roundly for it , as well as declare against it , we see little forwardnesse to forbear their infant-sprinkling ] which by your leave gentlemen , for all your soothing , and smoothing , and smothering over the thing as no great one , if it be one , sometimes for your own ends , yet , to take you at your own words in this place , is little lesse than an unsufferable crime , and a business in which to erre is most fearfully ro erre in one of the most necessary points of religion , and either betokens a totall desertion by the spirit of god , or else you shew your selves but ignorant men in speaking so of it , and that is the very truth of it indeed , for though an error about the subject , and essential form of baptism be at no hand to be set so light by , as t is by you when you see men resolved to depart from your societies in case of your refusal to reform that double error , which in that point remaines yet among you , while you rantize infants , yet neither is it to be so mightily magnified , and made such a hydeous , such a fundamental , such a dangerous , such a damnable error , ( unlesse persevered in willfully against light or conscience , and then a smaller matter then that may prove of sad consequence to any soul ) is as inconsistent with all possibility of their salvation , that in times of ignorance did happen to hold it , or puts all such persons under an absolute impossibility of having any thing of the spirit of god in them , as , meerly by reason of non discovery of it , do go astray by it , as ( to go round again ) you who care not which extream you run out into , when you suppose your own turn against us to be served by it , do seem to make and magnifie it in this place . neverthelesse ( as i said once above ) as much as you sleight it other while , and mr. baxter also , who spends a pair of pages viz. . . to shew how little stress god laies upon this point , making it ( as the non-churc●●rs usually do , upon whose principles how neer he borders , some see better then himself , though he yet own the use of ordinances ) as it were a low , small matter , a piece of ceremon● and letter , which god will dispense with , saying circumcision is nothing i. e. ( in su●o sensu ) not much material , whether baptized or not a small part of the ministers work , which paul left to others to dispense as belonging not much to him to administer , who was sent to preach , ( a●d yet i believe if we say ( as indeed we do ) that there 's no such need that the dispensation it self be done by the hands of one , that is specially sent to preach , and in holy orders , mr. baxter will either be against us , or else against all his brethren of the clergy ( who will have none to baptize but such as are sent to preach ) as much i say as you and mr. baxter sleight it , and as little fundamental as you make it , yet i must tell you in mr. baxters words , and your own too , that christs commands are to be obeyed by us , great and small , as far as we know them , and so necessary a point of religion is this ( as to the outward part of religion ) that howbeit mr. baxter p. . denies that outward part of baptism , or external washing to be called one of the foundations heb. . . any otherwise then for its praecedency viz , because its first laid in order of time , not because it beareth up the building ) even that outward burying of believers in that baptism is both to be done necessitate praecepti , by special command from him act. . . . . whose voice , whoever will not hear i. e. obey when heard , in all things whatever he saith , little commands as well as greater , mat. . . shall be cut off from among his people act. . . . and therefore how farre forth necessary , necessitate medii , and ad salutem to life it self , so far forth as we know his will in that particular let mr. baxter judge . and also secondly , is to be done in such wise and manner as he himself hath commanded , and not after mans precept and tradition , there being no lesse rejection , plague and cursing denounced against changing the ordinances , and serving god after such manner as men require , then to neglecting it altogether isa. . . . . . mat. . . and also thirdly , is to be done first after once we do repent and believe , and that so necessarily first ( necessitate both praecepti and medii ) in order to outward membership and fellowship in the visible church of christ , and in order also to the true being of the visible church in that outward right form and order , that if it be not first done , and done according to his own mind , and not mans , and first laid as a foundation among the rest of those principles heb. . , . of christs doctrine , which altogether are called the foundation i. e. to the visible church of christ , which is said to be built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets i. e. their doctrine , or that form of doctrine they delivered , whereof baptism in water was a part , and a principle , though not the principal part eph. . . rom. . . . . i deny that there can be any visible church of christ at all , truly constituted according to his own will , and such a bearer up of that building it is , tha● abstract it , and there is no building fitly framed together , nor people growing together visibly an holy temple in the lord , and he that in these latter dayes will ever erect that holy city and temple which was trodden under foot by the gentiles , advancing all into the name of the church at the door of infant-sprinkling , must preach and practise again that true baptism of repentance for remission of sins , in the absence of which there was no true visible church as to outward order and form at all , in their opinion as well as mine , who hold ( and so does the whole clergy ) that baptism is the way , by which persons enter , and out of which there is no entring at all into the visible church , in which therefore to erre is in truth such an unsufferable crime , and so fearfully to erre in one of the most necessary points of religion ( as pertaining to visible church order ) that except ye repent of your infant-sprinkling ( o ye priests ) and be baptized truly according to christs will in the name of the lord iesus for remission of that , and all other your sins and superstitions , your error is enough to justifie our separation from you , nor find we how we can in christs name , and according to his will , or without violation , and palpable breach of that outward order , ( which he gives no dispensation for to us ) abide in one body , or church fellowship with you in the supper . secondly sirs , though i told it you before , yet to conclude this , i now tell you again , though we deny infant baptism , yet , we do not hold at all , nor conclude thereby that the whole church of god hath universally erred i. e. the church of christ in all ages and places ; and howbeit , it is tr●e ( as dr. featley saies p. and we with him ) that particular churches have erred , and may erre ( as the greek church , and the latin church ( the two legs upon which mr. marshal strives to make infant baptism stand still , because it hath stood there so long ) and general councels , which the schooles term the representative church , are sub●ect to error , and have sometimes ( as dr. featley saies , and so often say i that that i le never build my faith upon them ) decreed heresie and falshood for truth , & howbeit all christendom hath erred after the clergy in this point , and many more for years , yet t is true ( as dr. featley saies ) that the formal church ( as they speak ) i. all the assemblies in the world cannot be impeached with errour in this point of infant baptism , forasmuch as the true churches of the first times never knew it , and many faithful witnesses that knew it to be a corruption testified against it in the darkest times , and the best reformed churches , even no lesse then scores of assemblies do deny it at this day , to the shame of that one general assemblie that would have settled it . review . and not onely so , but if mr. fishers doctrine which 〈◊〉 lately delivered , as a judicious gentleman affirmd , who heard him , that ●ll that did believe and were dipt should be saved ; but all that did believe and were not dipt should be damned , be true ; they as much as lies in them , damn to the pit of hell all the matyrs , professors , fathers , believers for many hundreds of years together : which onely doctrine should make all men to abhor them , and not let their soules intermeddle with their secret , whose rage is so fierce , whose wrath is so cruel , christ shuts out onely unbelievers from heaven , whosoever believeth not shall be damned . this doctrine shuts out believers if they be not dipt , i. e. if they be not anabaptists ; it cannot be the ceremony they are so hot for , without the substance . re-review . but saving the over apprehensive powers of that judicious gentleman , who ere it was that heard me , he most grossely abuses ▪ in it himself and me , in reporting such a thing to you , as also you abuse both him and me , and the world too in reporting it as from him to the world ( yet you have done him honour so farre i confesse as to conceal his name , or else you had done him a greater spite indeed ) himself in shewing such shallowness of capacity in hearing , as scarcely calls for that worthy title of judicious gentleman , and me in not only mistaking , but mistelling his mistake also to you , who print out his mistake to all the world : for such doctrine as this , that all that did believe , and were not dipt should be damned , did never yet fall from my mouth , nor did ere take place , or was ever owned for truth in my mind : yea howbeit i summon you , or any else to shew me in the word ( not taken by snatches , but in the whole intent , and scope of it ) gods promise of salvation by christ without obedience to him both in repentance , faith and baptism too , to those , of whom all these things are required , i say it again ( least you mistake me as speaking of infants , for they being capable of none of these , of them to salvation none of these are required of whom all these are required , since all those that obey not the gospel , in what part soever of it it is manifested to them , shall be damned , thes. . , , — . , , . howbeit , i say i wish you to advise how safely you , that know it to be your duty , may neglect it , and how groundedly you can assure your selves , that you do believe at all in truth , if you receive not the love of every title of christs truth , so as wherein it appears to you to imbrace and obey it , yet i am well assured i never utterd the other , viz. that all that did believe , and were not dipt should be damned , nor is it now , nor ever was it my judgement to this hour ; of which for the worlds and your satisfaction , sith i have been very often charged , and that twice or thrice in publique places where i have preacht , so to hold , i shall here give this brief account . i judge that all persons in the world ( meaning not infants , but such as are at years of discretion , to whom the gospell comes in any measure ) are of some or other of these three sorts , viz. . either such as neither believe at all , nor so much as in words profess so to do , or . such as in words say they believe , and indeed do not . or . such as both profess to believe , and do indeed believe as they say . now i suppose we all hold the first sort , viz. professed prophane ones , so living so dying , will be damned , and unless we will deny the scriptures , we must needs hold the second sort , whose professed faith is a dead faith shall not be saved , for what doth it profit if a man say he hath faith jam. . . and have not works , &c. whereby onely faith is proved to be true indeed as it is professed , can that faith save him ? as for the third sort , viz true believers , i subdivide them in my thoughts into ranks . first , such as believing in christ truly for salvation , believe also baptism in its true way of dispensation , and not rantism , to be christs will concerning them , and these i am certain will submit accordingly and obey him in it , for such as say they have faith , and live in rebellion to what parts of christs will they know they ought to obey him in , have not faith to salvation what ever they say . or secondly , such as believing in christ , neither see nor believe , nor practise baptism in that only true way wherin we dispense it , and all this meerly for want of meanes to discover it to them , or by means of the invincible ignorance of their times , and ages wherein they lived , and wherein , according to the will of god permitting it so to be , the mind of god in that thing hath been hid , and , as we know it hath in many more things for ages and generations together , remained undiscovered , which times of ignorance i believe god much winked at , in those who sincerely owned truth , and obeyed it so far as it then appeared , and as they saw it , though now he commands all men to return from babylon in these daies of light , wherein men may see , but that they will not , yea many prophets , and righteous ones in the height of popery , have desired to see , and hear what we do , or may do , yet could not , the scriptures lying lockt up as unlawful well-nigh for any to consult with , therefore look you to it who say you do not this or that because you see it not , for i testify to you that it is a time wherein the true light shineth so cleerly , that men need not erre , if they love not darkenesse more then light because their deeds are evil . and the same measure of light and reformation and truth , which might have denominated you reformists , had you lived years ago , will not serve to denominate you so now , since the smoak that darkned the sun , and the aire , is much more perfectly dispelled then in that twilight , in this form , i mean of such as could not see , not because they would not , but because it shone not , do i rank all the martyrs , and those honest men , whom you do●e on as fathers , and all true professors and believers for many hundreds of years together , who witnessed to truth , and suffered for it too , so far as it did appear to them in their times , to this sort of men i am more charitable and tender in my censures then you can possibly prove your selves to be , and so i am also to infants , for all your prate of pleading for them against our cruelties , neither doth any doctrine that ever i delivered damn any of these to the pit of hell , as your doctrine of so rigid , ha●sh , fierce and cruel rejection of all infants from salvation , save those of believers , doth damn an hundred to one of them , that dy in innocent infancy : and where it should be that that gentleman told you i preacht that doctrine , that all such as believe , and yet are not dipped shall be damned i know not , but this i know , that i was ever so far from conceiving , much more expressing any such thing that where i speak in publique of that point of baptism , in prevention of that prejudice , and opinion of our harshness , which your publike balling at us bege●s in your hearers , i commonly deliver my self to the contrary . but now sirs , as for your selves , who so falsely father this doctrine upon me as mine , and that with such abhorrency of both it , and me for it , and with such patheticall expressions of your zeal against it , as that you even set your teeth an edge as it were , and whet the spirits of all men to abhor us for it , if they had nothing in all the world against us , in point of doctrine but that , & not to let their souls intermeddle with our secrets , whose rage is so fierce , and whose wrath is so cruel , what if i go no further then your own account of the disputation at ashford , to prove that your selves are the men that hold this doctrine , that though persons believe , yet if they be not baptized they must be damned , and not we ? are you not then condemned out of your own mouths to perpetual abhorring ? now therefore quid rides ? de te fabula narratur , thou o accountant art the man of whom this tale may be told more truly then of us , who hast plotted so well , as to plat a whip here for thy own back : yea i appeal to the whole world of wise men ●o judge , whether i do not bring proof out of your own paper , if your true account be yours , and be as true an account of your judgements as t is pretended to be of your disputation , that it is your own judgement , and not mine , that baptism is so necessary to salvation , that even such as believe , and yet are denyed to be baptized , notwithstanding that very belief of theirs shall be damned : go bur back with me therefore to the th page of your pamphlet , and compare it with what you say in the third and fourth pages concerning childrens believing , and see what an account you have there given of your own minds in this matter . in the fourth you conclude , from the like in the children of the iewes , that the children of beli●ving parents have faith , in the third page you conclude from mat. . . that little ones do believe , now look but in the seventh page , and let all the world judge , whether you do not there say of these same persons , viz. of the infants of believing parents , of whom you asserted before they were believers , that if they may not be baptized , and that 's none of the childrens fault neither as the neglect of baptism is in men , it destroies the hope that the parents can have of their salvation , for it leaves them in no better condition , say you , then turks and pagans , and their children : the salvation of whom is with you as hopeless , for ought i see , as of the devills : which things let that or any judicious gentleman spel , and put together and see if it be not tantamount to such a testimony as this , viz - that those that believe , and a●e not baptized shall be damned , for to be damned , and not saved are all one , and as for children of tu●ks and pagans dying in infancy , you record it it as a monstrous thing that i should say , that for ought i knew they might be saved ; yea by the reply that was made to that speech of mine by one who said perhaps i thought the devills might be saved , it appears that your party thinks it as possible that the devils may be saved , as soon as the dying infants of turks and pagans : and yet of the children of believing parents , who in your opinion do also believe themselves , you say the opinion of the anabaptists , which denyeth baptism to little children , puts the parents out of hopes of their salvation , und makes them to be in no better condition then turks and pagans : yea you say believing parents may say of their children , that dy without baptism , what hopes of our child , who is in no better condition , then the children of infidels ? and really they say true if the state of infidels dying infants be so damnable , as you saie it is : is it you or we , sirs , whose doctrine damnes believers , if they be not baptized ? i le conclude this matter with you , much what in your own words , and form of speech . christ shuts out only unbelievers from heaven , whosoever believeth not shall and be damned , this doctrine of yours , that little infants are believers , and yet out of all hopes of being saved , if not baptized , shuts out believers if they be not baptized , i e. if they be not rantiz'd ( for that is the best baptism you use ) and by consequence if your doctrine , which you delivered in this account ( as judicious gentlemen that read it will affirm ) be true , that even believers not baptized shall be damned , you had need baptize your believing infants indeed , i. e. to do more then cris crosse two or three drops of water on their faces , or else ( for all your plea for their baptizing on pain of their damnation ) they l be damn●d , if they be no more then sprinkled , for want of true baptism when all is done : for that is not so much as the ceremony it self in truth , which you are so hot for without the substance , yet would i not have you be an abhorring for all this , but pittyed and prayed for rather ▪ that you may in time for this and all other your follies , and false accusations of others , of things whereof you are more guilty your selves , abhor your selves in dust and ashes , that you may not be an abhorring ( as he is more then half blind that doth not see who will be once ) amongst both god and men rev. . . rev. . . and thus i have done with your first argument . review . the second is this , little children under the law received the seal of the gospel covenant ; for circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith , which is the gospel-covenant . the law saith , do this and live : the gospel , only believe in the lord iesus christ ; and therefore god calls it an everlasting covenant ; and the apostle saith the law that came years could not disannull it , gal. . , and he saith expresly the gospel was preached to abraham , ibid. ver . . nay more , the carnall seed of abraham , ishmael and esau , men branded for reprobates in scripture , yet because they were born in abrahams house , received that seal by gods appointment . why then should not children under the gospel receive baptism , which the adversaries confess to be the seal of the gospel-covenant ? re-review . this poor forlorn wretched argument hath been handled , and laid sprawling once or twice before , where both its consequence is denyed , and good reason gien of the senselessness of such syllogizing , as is here from the law to the gospel , therefore it is but needless to defend our selves any further against it , it being a demi-dead man , that is disabled from being dreadful to us already ; nevertheless sith he hath strengthens himself again what he can , and comes up recru●ed , and attended with a company of scambling , and for the most part very unsound sentences at his heels , t wil not be amisse to enter the lists a little with him , and these his auxiliaries . first then sirs , whereas you come in again with that crooked consequence viz. inf●nts must be baptized under the gospel , because circumcisied under the law , we might more pertinently let up a shout at your shameful folly in this particular , then set upon the shewing of it any more , it is so palpable ; for verily ( as is proved sufficiently above ) these two viz. the covenant of the law and the gospel , from the identity of which you infer an identity in the subject of the ordinances and administrations of both , and by way of analogy , would evince them both to belong to the same persons , i must tell you these are two testaments , or wills of god , concerning men , in those two different times viz. before christ and since , and these two so specifically distinct , that they not onely run upon different strains and require different terms ( as your selves here confesse ) the law saying do this and live , the gospell onely believe , but also stand upon different promises , whereof the gospels being of the heavenly canaan , are better then the laws , which were but of an earthly one , and these also pertaining to two different seeds viz. the legal to the natural children of abraham i. e. isaac and his posterity by generation ; the evangelical to the spiritual seed of abraham i. e. such as are of christ by faith and regeneration ; and they had also different dispensations , the one circumcision , the other another thing viz. dipping , a thing no way like it , and different subjects also for those different dispensations , so that ( if men and their ministers were not all turned momes ) they could not , but must manifestly perceive it , the old testament admitting to circumcision onely males , and these onely on the eighth day , in case they were in the house so young , and all the males in the house , whether sons or servants , whether born in the house , or bought with money of any stranger , and all this without respect to either faith or repentance in the persons to whom dispenst , or any prae-preaching to them by the person dispensing , the new testament taking in to baptism as no servants upon the masters faith , so all persons in the world both males and females upon their own , and that upon any day , and not the eighth onely , wherein after they have been preacht to , they professe to repent and believe mat. . act , . act. . act. . the proof of which real , specifical diversity of these two covenant● 〈◊〉 yet farre more evident . first , because the spirit denominates them so to be in scripture , calling them expressely the two covenants gal. . . and also very often ( in plurali ) the covenants , the covenants of promise . secondly by that contradistinction of speech , which the spirit useth , when he speaks of them , and those oppposite epithets , by which he diversifies them , calling one the law , the other the gospel , and the law by the name of the first testament , or will of cod , the gospel the second , the law the old testament , the gospel the new ; the law ( which bound to circumcision , and to the observation of which in all other things circumcision bound its subjects , when they came to years ) not of faith ( though faith then was too in a few , and also from the beginning as to the eternal inheritance ) but of flesh rather , and the time before faith came gal. . . . . also a law of a carnall commandement , a faulty and a blameable testament of weak and beggerly rudiments , ( in respect of christ , who is the end of them ) standing in imperfect and onely flesh-purifying precepts , and on meerly terrene , inferiour , and flesh-pleasing promises , as canaan and ierusalem here below also the letter , in ink , in tables of stone , the ministration of death and condemnation , the covenant gendering to bondage , the haired , the hand writing of ordinances that was against us , yet thus farre not against , but subservient to the promises , as t was the similitude of heavenly things , the figure and shadow of the good things to come , and a schoolmaster to bring to christ , eph. . . col. . . the gospel contrariwise the time of faith gal. . . for after faith came &c. the power of an endless life heb. . . a better testament , standing in lesse painful ordinances , more plain and soul purifying precepts , and on better and more precious , and foul saving promises , a canaan , a ierusalem from above heb. . . also the ministration of the spirit in fleshly tables of the heart , of righteousnesse , of life , liberty , love , grace , reconciliation , the very image and truth it self , of which the law was but the shadow . thus you find the scripture opposing one of these two to the other , so farre is it from signifying them to be one and the self same covenant , as you frivolously fain them to be , that you may build your infant-baptism thereupon . now whether we shall believe the holy spirit , which stiles these two expressely two covenants , or your selves , who will have them to be but one , judge ye . moreover , how two covenants or testaments can be plurally pointed out and called two , and opposed respectively ad se invicem , by the names of the first and second , the old and new , the type and the truth , a better and a worse &c. yea and contradictorily predicated too , as the law and the gospel are , of which it s said the one is of faith , i. e. ever ( for so the gospel ever was , saying , believe and live , and the just must live by faith ) the other not of faith i. e. never ( for the law never was of faith , but the man that doth them shall live in them , was the terms thereof ) and yet all this while be but one and the same covenant and testament , is no lesse then a mystery to me sith , t is an undeniable rule among logicians , that oppositio semper subinfer● pluralitatem , also that contradictio est oppositionum perfectissima , pugnacissima , et eterna d s●unctionis : opposition , specially contradiction , which is the greatest of oppositions , doth suppose a plurality , so that t is impossible that one thing should be two contradictory things at once , or that contradictories should eodem tempore cadere in idem , i. e. be truely spoken both of the same thing at the same time . babist . the one is called the first , and the old testament meerly because it went before and is now vanisht away and alienated , the other is called the second , and the' new one meerly because it comes after that , and is now in being , not because it is really another testament , another covenant as you contend , but two parts rather or periods of one and the same covenant of grace , which was from the beginning of the world . baptist. i confesse that the gospel covenant was in the world before the law , and under the law also , onely in smaller measure of manifestation , as well as now , but deny still that the law , which is called the old and first covenant was the covenant of the gospel , or that it was not a covenant clearly distinct from it : for its being opposed as the new and second , to the other as a first and old one , preaches no lesse to the meanest capacities , then a plurality : and as for that reason , which you give of those terms first , second , old and new , viz. because the law was more antient and antecedent , the gospel more of late , and subsequent , in this sence t is true the gospel is succedaneous to the other , as to its last and clearest promulgation under christ crucified ( for else in some degrees of it the gospel was before the law , and was preacht to abraham ( as you alleadge ) out of gal. . . . ) years before moses , yea and to adam years before that , yea indeed to say the truth , the law and the gospel , were both even from the beginning , though both more lively illustrated toward the end : the gospel in dark promises being both before , and under those plainer promulgations of the law , as given by moses , and the law in some parcels viz. sacrifices and some other ceremonies of it , being from adam and abel before the brighter breakings forth of either the one , or yet the other , in this sence i say t is true , the law came first by moses , before the gospel of grace and truth came by christ ; whereupon that may be properly called the first and old one , and this also the second and the new , neverthelesse not onely thereupon , for howbeit the bare notions of first second , old and new arise from the ones being once , and now abolished , the others being since , and still abiding , yet could they not possibly and properly be called so much as two covenants , much less a first and a second , if they were not truly two , or were only one , for then we may properly call two years one , or one single intire year by the name of two years , and those two the first year and the second , the old year and the new year , because there is two parts , two periods , two halves in that one year , whereof one is antecedent to the other , which py-bald bull , bipartite business , odd conceited one-two , or simple duple is both ridiculous , improper and impossible . babist . they are called two covenants in regard of the double outward dispensation , and different administration thereof , though the covenant be one and the same , and so saith mr. marshall p. . . . of his sermon , viz. the covenant of grace for substance hath been alwaies one and the same , though not for the manner of administration so p. . the externall administration of the covenant is not the same with us ( saith he ) as it was with them , but the covenant is the same , they were under the same misery by nature , had the same christ , the lamb slain from the beginning of the world , the same conditions of faith and repentance to be made partakers of the covenant , the same graces promised in the covenant , circumcising the heart to love the lord &c. theirs was dispensed in darker prophecies , and obscurer sacrifices , types , and sacraments , ours more gloriously and in a more greater measure : the clothes indeed do differ , but the body is the same , and so p. . the very self same priviledges , formerly made peculiar to the iews , are now ( saith he ) through christ communicated to the gentiles . baptist. that the covenant of grace is for substance not two but in all ages one and the same within it self who denies ? but what then ? is it therefore one and the same with another , that most manifestly , and downrightly differs from it , and is as distinct a covenant also as that within it self ? for so verily the law , which is also called the first covenant , or the covenant of circumcision , was varying wonderfully from that gospel covenant , whereof yet we confesse is to be the type , in both its priesthood and people , its mediator and attonement , sacrifices and offerings , precepts and promises , inheritance and heirs , birth-priviledges and seed , ordinances and their subjects , and all things thereunto pertaining : i say they were very divers each from other , saving still that one was to shadow out the other , viz. moses the mediator , ioshua the saviour , aaron the high-priest , and his burnt offerings , for that temporal annuall attonement , heb. . , . and purgation from fleshly impurities , were all to point our christ , who is all this spiritually , viz. the mediator , saviour , high-priest , sacrifice , and author of eternal attonement between god and us , and purification of our consciences in the gospel ; those earthly promises and inheritance were to represent our heavenly , their fleshly heirship , birth-priviledges , seed , and admission of new born babes to ordinances , to shadow out what high born heirs those babes are , who are begotten to the faith , and their right and title to a standing in the gospel church . o but saies mr. marshall , they had the same gospel covenant that we have , the same christ , the same conditions , i. e. faith and repentance &c. first , take notice that with him faith and repentance are the conditions on which persons stood then , and ever before , and do now in the gospell covenant which things he knowes infants have not , and therefore are not by right to be visibly inchurched , and incovenanted under the gospel . till they visibly appear to have them , yet under the law they were in covenant , and inchurched for all that and why ? because faith and repentance were not the conditions of that church-covenant and ordinances , nor of heirsh●p to that earthly canaan , but meer fleshly descent of abraham , isaac and iacob , which whoever had , had title to circumcision and canaan ( though not to heaven ) thereupon , if they never believed , nor repented whilest they breathed . secondly , but what if they had the same gospel covenant , that we have , held forth to them , at least in a darker way , will it follow therefore that they had not also another covenant over and above that peculiar to themselves , which we have not , whereof circumcision was a token , and which believing gentiles , much less their seed have nought to do with at all ? i trow not , for though we grant mr. marshall , that they had the substance of the gospel among them , as also adam , noah , and abraham had , and the same priviledges of that covenant that we have ( excepting some circumstances of it , wherein we are beyond them ) that will not run retro ( as mr. marshall would fain have it ) that the self same priviledges formerly made peculiar to the iews , are now through christ conveyed to the gentiles : for the old covenant priviledges viz. the fleshly birth holiness , and heirship to canaan , and title to be signed as heirs , upon a meer natural descent are such as the best gentiles , and best believers seed in the world can lay no claim to , for that was ( as we see gen. . ) a distinct proper covenant to themselves , as the fleshly seed of abraham , isaac and iacob , whom the spiritual seed themselves have ( as such ) no right to partake with in their inheritance or earthly canaan , as this fleshly seed ( as meerly such ) have no right to partake with the other in their heavenly canaan . babist . but mr. marshal saies p. . that all their external promises in case of obedience , all outward blessings , which were to be enjoyed by them , the land of canaan , and all the good things in it , all outward punishments and threatnings , losse of their conntrey , going into captivity , and their sacrifices , their washings , their sprinklings , their holy persons , holy feasts , and holy things , were all of them but so many administrations of the covenant of grace ; earthly things were not onely promised and threatned more distinctly and fully , then now they are to them who are in covenant , but were figures , signs and types , and sacraments of spiritual things , to be enjoyed both by them and us . baptist. as i grant the covenant of grace , which promises eternal life on conditions ( as mr. marshall confesses ) of only faith and repentance , to be for substance for ever the same within it self , so i grant that the other covenant viz. all those external promises of outward blessings , which were to be enjoyed by the iews in canaan , in case of their obedience , was a certain outward administration , and lively type of that inward and true covenant of grace , yet still must it be regranted by mr. marshall and all men , that even that was a true , real , and really distinct covenant also of it self , and though that were a plain picture , and a map of the other , and as it were a different dresse wherewith it was clothed upon , and wherein it was exhibited to the world , yet was it not onely an administration of the gospel , but also an entire covenant , so substantially divided from that , as that its most properly denominated another covenant , and not that , and they both are truly denominated to be two viz. an old and new one , a first , and a second , which they could not genuinely be , unless one were more then meerly another form and manner of administration or the other . nay seriously if that gospel covenant , which both you and wee say is one and the same in substance , onely admitted variation in its circumstances , doth multiply it self answerably to the number of those different clothings , which that one body hath successively come forth in , and must be as multifariously expressed , as it hath shewed it self in various habits to our view , and bear the names of two , of first and second , old and new from its severall and remarkable periods and administrations : then sith there hath been not two onely , but as you say truely your selves , four rem●rable periods , and circumstantial appearances of that covenant viz. the first from adam to abraham ; the second from abraham to moses ; the third from moses to christ ; the fourth from christ to the end ; the word would sure have spoken of four covenants , or testaments , and not two onely viz. two old ones , and two new ones , or the first and second , the third and fourth , and so by that reckoning this is the fourth testament that we are under , yet truly it is but a second , and a second truly it is , in respect to that first testament that 's now vanisht , that once was in force , and had truly , though more carnally and also typically of this , and as this also more spiritually hath , ordinances of divine service , and a sanctuary , and a mediator , and saviour , and salvation ; and priesthood , and sacrifices , and blood of sprinkling , and purifying , an atonement , and an inheritance , and a promised land , and a seed entitled to it , and a circumcision evidencing it , and given as a token viz. that to the fleshly seed which was circumcision of the flesh , this to the spiritual babes , i mean believers i. e. the circision of the heart . and howbeit that was a kind of administration of this , that the map , this the main thing meant by it , that the picture , this the person represented , that the clothing this the body , at that time set forth gloriously thereby , yet all this denies not but that that map , that picture , that clothing , that glorious administration was also ( as it is also called a distinct covenant within it self , which though it stood truly for a time , yet because also as a type of what should be under christ , is now utterly abrogated , utterly nullified together with the holinesse of all its most glorious holy ordinances , whereof circumcision was a chief one , and in infancy to be dispensed , and with the holinesse of all their holy things , and their holy persons also i. e. the whole race of the iews to all their posterities , which holy persons mr. marshal ( wellfare his heart for it ) in that clause i now answer to , confessing to be a type , must consequently confesse their holinesse to be totally taken away now the truth is come in , and not translated from that holy people to believing gentiles and their seed : for these can have none of the holinesse of that old covenant now , which yet you will needs have to be no more but a bare administration of the new . and lastly take it to be but so , you will gain by it no smal disadvantage to your cause : for though you yield it not to be point blank another covenant , yet if you yield it to be another administration of the gospel covenant , divers from this we are now under , you grant us enough as to our present purpose , yea as much as we need to desire , for our dispute is not now to the covenant it self so much , as to its manner of administration ; so that let that covenant and this be as much one as they will , yet if the manner of administrations of the gospel covenant in its outward ordinances , were then ( as you say ) unlike to what they are now , you give us no lesse by your own argument then even all that we contend for , for the very thing you plead from the consideration of that identity , which is dreamed by you to be in the covenant , is an identity in the manner of administration of ordinances under both the law and the gospel : for whoever shall say that the manner of administration of baptism under the gospel must be as the manner of administration of circumcision was under the law , and in proof thereof shall say the covenant of the law and gospel is one and the same , though the manner of administration be different , suo se ingulabit gladio , will even quite cut the throat of his own cause , yet thus plainly doth mr. marshall speak p. . of his ser. viz. now this external administration of the covenant is not the same with us , as it was with them but the covenant is the same . but is it so sirs ? so you say it seems as well as we ; then you have brought your hoggs to a fair market indeed , for it the externall administration , which was then be , as to the manner of it , different from that which is now , then i wonder what pattern you can pick from that manner of administration , whereby to steer your cause now , and to direct your selves about the true manner of this : for will any wise man in any w●rk , action or administration he is about to p●●form take his example by another work , action or administration which himse●● confesses is quite different from it , and not after the same manner as that is to be done in , which he hath now in hand to do ? yet thus do you whilest contending that the outward administration of the covenant among the jews was not in the same manner as the outward administration of it is to be now , you yet contend to have our baptism as much as may be after the manner of their circumcision : you must , and you must not it seems ( and these both a● once ) walk after those customes , and do things now after the manner of moses . if any man then ask me this question , viz. sith the gospel covenant is everlastingly the same for substance , and little children under the law received circumsion the seal as you call it , of the gospel covenant , why then should not little children under the gospel receive baptism , the seal ( so i hear you say ) of the gospel covenant ? and why should not this administration of the covenant in outward ordinances be after the manner of that of old ? i answer him out of mr. marshalls own mouth thus , because though for substance the gospel covenant be ever one and the same , yet the manner of external administration thereof , is not the same with us as t was with them , and therefore we are not to take example in our dispensations , and administrations by them , nor regard to do after the manner of them , the priest-hood being changed , of necessity there is a change also of the law , for the administrators are not the same with us , as with them , nor the administrations the same in matter , nor the manner of administration to them the same , nor the subjects to whom these administrations belong the same , for those were to all the holy jewes , though never so unholy and unbelieving , but these to jewes and gentiles as they believe and no otherwise : least of all is the subject of circumcision and baptism the same , for that above all the rest was limitted to all males , and those only at eight daies old , this extending to males and females , and those only when they professe to be believers . babist . circumcision was a more evangelical administration : hen the rest , as being given when the gospel was preached to abraham years before the law , therefore we may give the more heed to that , sith it is of the fathers and more then to the other ordinances , which by institution were more immediately of moses . baptist. though it were in being so long before moses , yet was it as directly belonging to his law as any other administration what-ever , for howbeit it was before him , yet it is said to be of him , as all the sacrifices also were , which were of old before circumcision , because he gave them all anew , and plainer promulgation , and was mediator of all that old testament service , which ended in christ , and was even from the very beginning . moreover , though the gospel covenant was preached in a type to abraham in gen. . where circumcision was also first appointed , yet that in reference to which circumcision of the flesh was there instituted , was immediately that first and old covenant of the law , which was in some parcels and pieces of it before abraham , and now was propounded a little more fully in the promise of that land to his fleshly seed , and the express appointment of that one more special precept thereof , i. e. circumcision , though the fulnesse of it came not till four hundred and thirty years after : yea he that hath but half an eye in his head must needs see that to be the covenant , viz. that which was made in a type ( i grant ) of another , yet really with the seed of abrahams body , whereof that circumcision was the token , which covenant and circumcision were so neer kin , that stephen calls that acts . the couenant of circumcision , which also i have spoken to so sufficiently above , that howbeit you here give me the occasion de novo , yet i le trouble you no further with it here . review . . these are the seed of abraham , semen fidei , gal. . . so zacheus by believing was made a son of abraham , nay the spiritual seed . . the promise is to believers and their seed act. . . . the gospel is a better covenant heb. . . and it would be far worse if the children of believers under the gospel should not be counted within the covenant , nor have right to the seal , nor be esteemeed members of the visible church as well as the iewes children , nay according to the anabaptists valued but as turks and pagans . re-review . here to inforce this argument a fresh , least the front should faile , you come up three a breast , and let fly at us thick and threefold with a first , second and third report . first , you tell us that these , i. e. believers fleshly seed are the seed of abraham , nay the faithful seed , or seed of faith , and that in such manner too as zacheus was made the son , or seed of abraham , and how was that ? viz. by believing : nay the spiritual seed : quid ni ? they cannot chuse i warrant bu● ipso sacto be believers , i. e. born again by faith ( for such only are of faith ) yea and the spiritual seed too , i , e. born of the spirit ( for such only are a spiritual seed ) and that so well as zacheus himself , if once barely born of the bodies of the flesh , of such spiritual parents as do believe , alias live in christendome , at least in reformed christendome , for if all papists be not a spiritual body of believers with you ( as they are with the pope ) all protestants are taken by you so to be , i mean to be such , whose fleshly seed are of faith ▪ and the spiritual seed of abraham and so to be baptized , o fy ! sirs o fy ! o fy ! babist . our meaning is not that these are , or are to be counted in the spirit , or of the faith as abraham was , but only to be accounted under the gospell , and reckoned all to abraham , as his children in an outward sense , fo f●r as to a being in his family , i. e. the visible church . baptist. . me thinks any mans own mother wit should tell him that god never appointed things to be accounted by us , otherwise then they are , or at least appear , much less otherwise then they can be . . appeal and lay close siege sirs to your own consciences , search and see whether they will tell you , that the place you quote , viz. gall. . . be at all for you , or be not much rather against you , mean which of these two waies you will. for if you mean in as plain english as you speak it , that the infants of believers are really the seed of abraham , the seed of faith , the spiritual seed , so as zacheus himself was , that is , by believing , doth that scripture so much as implicitly say any such thing , either that the seed of believers do believe , or that they are the seed of abraham , when it saith v. . they which are of faith , the same are the children of abraham , and ver . they which be of faith , are blessed with faithful abraham ? doth that phrase ( i say ) they which be of faith signifie believers infants ? or believing infants ? ( quid rides ? such folk as those , though some are ashamed to say they see , yet some are not ashamed to say are to be seen in the world ) or doth it signifie such as are true believers indeed ? which of the two think you doth it expresse , such persons at years onely , as are in the faith , or onely the natural fleshly seed of such ? or if you say both , that that one phrase viz. they which be of faith should express two kinds of persons , so differently descended of two so different births viz. believers themselves born of god by faith in christ , and also the meer fleshly seed of believers , who are no higher born then of their bodies , is so far from truth , that it is more then flat folly to conceive it and if you mean it not of their being abrahams children really by faith , so as thereupon to be assured heirs of salvation , but of their being counted of the faith , so as to outward membership in the church onely , t is plain that gal. . . . speaks of such onely as are truly in the faith i. e. faithful as abraham was , so as to be not onely outwardly inchurched , but eternally saved also , as none can say all believers children are , some of them proving wretches when they come to years , for as many as be of faith ( saith he ) i. e. faithful as abraham was , are blessed , and shall be justified and saved with faithful abraham , whose faith was imputed to him for righteousnesse , as faith shall be imputed to us also rom. . . . if we believe on him that raised up iesus from the dead &c. answerable to that also is gal. . . . ye are all the children of god by faith in iesus christ , & if ye be christs i. e. by faith , then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise i. e. the promise not of the law or old covenant , or earthly canaan ( for the galatians were never heirs according to that ) nor yet of meer membership and participation of ordinances in the church , that 's more pertaining to the preceptory then the promissory part of the gospel , but of the eternall inheritance it self , which is made not onely to believers and their seed , as you lace it up , but to all men and their seed , on terms of believing and comming in at gods call , and made good to as many as are so effectually called , so that they obtain the promise of that eternal inheritance indeed : compare heb. . . with act. . . answerable to that also is rom. . . . where it s said in a figure that as the seed of abraham himself by ishmael were not children of god i. e. as to the old covenant , so as to be counted heirs of that canaan and members of that church , though they were his true seed , and the children of his flesh as well as isaac was , because isaac onely and his seed were the children of that promise gen. . . . . for in isaac shall thy seed ( saith he ) be called ; the children of abrahams flesh , the ishmaelites , these are not the children of god in the old legal sense , but the children of the promise are counted for the seed , so even the seed of abraham by isaac himself are not at all children i. e. the children of god as to the new covenant , so as to be counted heirs of the gospel canaan , and members in the gospel church , though they were his true seed and children of his flesh as well as christ was , because christ onely and his seed are the children of this promise , for in christ who was the true isaac of whom the other was but the type , must abrahams seed now be called i. e. they that are the children of the flesh onely , whether of abraham , or of any other man in the world , these are not now ( as of old the fleshly seed of abpaham isaac and iacob were ) the children of god , but the children of the promise are counted now for the seed . t is true , to abraham and his seed the gospel promises were made as well as those of the law , but mark it , he saith not unto seeds in plurali , as of many , but of one , and to thy seed in singulari , that is christ gal. . . of whom being born by faith we are his seed , to whom in and with him the promise is made , for as the believer himself as a believer i. e. as abrahams spiritual seed had no share in the old covenant promise i. e. canaan , if not descended from him by isaac after the flesh , because to abraham and that fleshly seed onely ( in a type of something else , and yet truly too ) those promises were made , so a believers fleshly seed , as barely a believers seed , though born of believing abrahams own body , as the iews are at this day ( and that 's a higher birth one should think to entitle to the gospel , if any fleshly birth could do it , then to be born of our protestant believers ) have no share in this new covenant promise , if not born ( as i may say ) of abraham by isaac i. e. christ after the faith . or by faith in christ , and so personally , even every individual for himself , not catervatim , or domesticatim , whole families , whole nations of parents and children at once ingraffed as branches upon the root , and spirituallized into that stock or family of abraham i. e. the visible church in which his own natural branches , much more any other mans meer naturall branches , can have no place now , any further then as they appear to believe . indeed the natural branches stood of right upon meer fleshly birth of believing abraham without faith , so long as that fleshly birth-priviledge lasted , and could give a standing , and till the time of faith , and standing there by personal faith onely came , and then they were broken off indeed because of unbelief , yet not nationally as you say , i. e. the whole body for the unbelief of some viz. the persons of the children through allages , for the infidelity of the parents , for its evident that as many as believed , and those were not a few , when the rest were rejected , were then and thereupon admitted act. . and as many children of them in any age as believe , the unbelief of their parents shall not prejudice them , but personally every individual that did not believe , which the more is the pitty , were for the most part both children and parents too in the primitive times , save some few persons that did then believe , whose children yet for all that promise to them and their children you so talk of out of act. the . . came all to nought through unbelief , for else indeed the promise , even after christ crucified was to them , as also to all others so sure in case of faith , that that causelesse curse of their parents , wishing the blood of christ to be on them and their children , should never have hurt any , but them that wished it . in further illustration of which yet , i mean that personal faith onely , not parental gives a standing in the church now , because i write to a generation of men , that have more time to read then i to write , i hope i may be bold to trouble my self and you with the transcription of at least a page out of a little treatise termed a confutation of infant-baptism by thomas lamb , very plain and pregnant to this purpose : and the rather because i fear you will not search the book it self soundly if i should send you to it , onely by telling you t is worth your reading in this point , though at your request i have all-to-be-read dr. featley , in the . and pages of which book of thomas lamb , he writes as follows . so then when christ the true promised seed was come the seed in the flesh , that lead to christ ceased , for the natural relation ceased at the death of christ , and not before , at which time the distinction or different holinesse between iew and gentile ceased , act. . . eph. . . . in rom. . . it is said through unbelief they are broken off , now t is manifest they were the true church till the death of christ , and then broken off through unbelief : why were not the iews in the sin of unbelief before ? yes no doubt , why then were they not broken off before ? and why then ? the reason is because the time of faith was come , and therefore now they were broken off through unbelief ; the seed was come therefore the natural seed ceased , christ was come therefore the law ceased . as long as the law lasted they did remain in the church by being circumcised ; and observing the rites and ceremonies of the law , though they did remain in unbelief , but when the time of faith was come gal. . . then they were no longer in the covenant , and church by observing the rites and ceremonies of the law , which they entered into by circumcision , but now they were broken off through unbelief : which notes out unto us that the standing in that church before christ in time of the law , and the standing in this church since christ in time of the gospel is upon different grounds , for the standing in that church was by being circumcised , and observing the rites and ceremonies of the law ; but the standing in this church is by faith , and being baptized into the same faith act. . . . joh. . . gal. . , . rom , . . and it is to be noted that the iewes , the same people that were circumcised , and in covenant with abraham according to the flesh , and thereby members of the iewish church could not be the visible church according to the gospell , unless they did manifest faith , and so be in covenant with abraham according to the spirit , and baptized into the same faith . whereas if the covenant now under christ were the same that was before christ with abraham and his posterity in the flesh , then by the same right they possessed circumcision and the iewish church state , they must possesse this since christ , which they could not do , therefore it is not the same . it is true therefore that the covenant of god makes the church both in time of the law , and gospel too , for the church is nothing else but a people in covenant with god , now look how the covenant differs so the church and people differs which is made by it , and which enter into it . now the covenant , whereby god took a people outwardly to be his people then , was that , whereby they did , being circumcised , participate of all those outward meanes which led to christ , which was to come , psal. . . . but the covenant , whereby he takes a people outwardly to be his people now , whereby they are admitted to be baptized , is that profession they make of faith in christ acts . . . mat . . whereby they have true and spirituall conjunction with god and are his people heb. . . indeed it is true that christ is and ever was the mediator and means of salvation , and also that all those that were saved , were saved through faith in him both before and since his comming : but yet because the outward means of making christ known doth differently depend upon his being yet to come , and upon his being come in the flesh ; the one being more dark , the other more plain , the one more carnall , the other more spirituall , therefore the participation of these meanes doth make the state of the participants to differ . thus far are his words : and then noting certain differences to the number of seven or eight between the old testament and the new , which is . established upon better promises . . after the power of an endless life . . in christ. . and liberty of the spirit . . a celestial jerusalem . . a state of faith . he very truly concludes that such onely as are in the new covenant , in christ , in faith of the promises , born from above , and partakers of the spirit , and the power of that endless life : or of the world to come are suitable to be admitted to gospel church priviledges . in the time therefore before christ ( saith he ) such as would circumcise themselves , and their males , and observe the law in the rites , and ceremonies therof , together with their children by generation were the seed and in covenant with that church , but now since christ , only such as believe in christ , and are thereby children by regeneration , are the seed and in covenant with this church , and this he proves further yet . first , because none of the natural seed of abraham are in the covenant by vertue of any natural relation , though they did remain in the iewish church till the death of christ , and as that church then ceased so their being in the church by an natural relation ceased also act. . . rom. . . gal. . . — . , , ▪ . . . . , . secondly , the gentiles have no natural relation to become abrahams seed by , therefore a believers child cannot become the seed of abraham by being the seed of a believer , unless such children do believe themselves , and cannot otherwise in no respect be participants in the covenant made with abraham p. , . and again p. . no gentile ( saith he ) is abrahams seed at all but by believing the righteousnesse of faith , allthough he be the child of believing parents . now therefore because you tell us not only , first that believers children in infancy are abrahams children , though they yet do not the works of abraham , i. e. believe not on him that justifyes them , as some of you dote they do , but also , secondly , that the promise of the gospel is to believers and their seed . these both are abundantly confuted by that quotation of mine , which quotes more scripture then you will ever answer , so that i wonder you blush not to shoot out so boldly two such blind , and unsound assertions together , the second of which i shall say no more to , it being virtually answered by what is more formally spoken to the first & also because i have shewed so undeniably above , that i know your consciences must yield to it , and that from this act. . . whence you would wre●t a proof to the contrary , that the promise , if you take it for the profer of the gospel grace , is to all men in the world , every creature , and so not to believers and their seed only , but to all unbelievers and their seed also , in case they shall believe , for he conditionats the promise on calling , for such these were , whom peter spake to , whilst he was yet speaking that very word to them , viz. the promise is to you and your children ; but if you take it for the thing promised , which is not church-membership and participation of baptism , as some say whose absurdity therein i have declared , but the spirit , remission of sins , and salvation , this is made , good also to the believer himself ; and it is mercie enough to him that it is so i think , but not at all to his seed for his sake , nor his faiths sake , for if it be i testify his children need no faith of their own : nay more god never made promise to save any of believing abrahams natural seed , without faith in themselves for abrahams sake , as neerly as he took abraham to be his friend ; for even he had sin enough of his own to have sunck him , if the same mediator that saves any of his seed , in that way of faith , had not mercifully saved him the same way , nor yet for abrahams faiths sake , for that merited not salvation for them , nor was it instrumental , but faith only in themselves , to any one of his sonnes salvation , for every one must bear his own burden , if christ bear it not , and the just must live by his faith , and not his fathers , neither did he ever promise for his faiths sake to give faith to his natural seed as his , for then they must all have had it ( qua sic including de omni , and being universale summum ) or god should ly which he cannot ; neither could god blame them ( as he doth ) for unbelief , but himself , without whom ( say you they could not believe & who had promised to make them believe and did not ; though yet he promised to circumcise i. e. by his spirit to sanctify the hearts of his spiritual seed , as well as his own i. e. all such as believe , and are in the faith with him , for the promise being still sure to all the seed , which it is made to they all must be blessed with faithful abraham . now if god , who made the old covenant promise of the earthly canaan to abraham , and his fleshly seed , did not make the gospel promise to him and his fleshly seed , but onely that seed of his that believes with him , can we think that he made that promise to the gentile believer , and his fleshly seed , for his fathers sake , unlesse he have faith of his own ? babist . no we do not say without respect to his own faith , but as the believers seed shall believe , so it s made to him , as well as to his parents . baptist. so it s made to the unbeliever and his seed also viz. as they shall believe , as well as to either of the other , and by that account you may baptize all the world . again , none of the jews , though the natural seed of abraham , and partakers of all the ordinances of the old testament ( as abrahams children ) could be admitted to be baptized upon that same natural relation , though they pleaded it never so stiffly mat. but only on manifestation of amendment , besides that converts should not baptize their children , when they were baptized themselves , as abraham by command took all his males , and cirmumcised them the self same day with himself , argues plainly that both the covenant and the promise ( as mr. marshal saies truly ) as to the manner of administration was now changed , and not continued to parents and children both alike , but as they both alike believed . and that these were not baptized with their parents , i take mr. cotton at his word , who ( as i have shewed before ) confesses it , and if he should not stand to his testimonie herein , yet these words viz. as many as glady received the word were baptized , which exclude infants , and were an imperfect relation , if he meant not onely them that received the word , are so cogent that they cannot but compell him . so i have escaped two of your bullets , and as for the third viz. that the gospel , which is a better covenant , would be far worse , if believers children be not counted in it , and have not right to baptism , and membership as well as the iews children , and be valued but as turks and pagans , this is so sick of the same disease of absurdity with the rest , that i fear not its doing much execution : besides , we have lamed it before , having told you before , and proved it too , and now will again , that the exclusion of the fleshly seed from this covenant and administration , which was taken into the first , doth not lessen or straiten the grace of god under it at all , nor render this covenant worse then the first contrary to heb. . . the place twice quoted by you , where it s called a better , for the meliority there spoken of of this covenant above that , lies not so much in the extension of the grace of it to such subjects , as in the meliority of its promises , for this is a better covenant still then the other , who ere it belongs or belongs not to , forasmuch as it makes better promises then the other viz. of a heavenly canaan , and all spiritual blessings in and by iesus through faith , when that promised an earthly canaan onely , and certain temporal blessings therein , on performance of those tedious services of the law . t is true , theirs in this sense , and thus farre was a covenant of great grace too , as t was made freely to that people above other nations ( for he did not so to any people else ) concerning outward benefits , and such statutes and judgements , as should on their observation of them , not onely continue them therein , but as a shadow , type and schoolmaster conduct them to this : yet greater is the glory of the gospel covenant , which now is , so that the other had no glory in respect of this glory that excelleth , therefore the grace of god under the covenant , to them that are under it , is greater also . besides , if you speak not onely of the intention , but extension of the grace of god in this covenant , and in the administration of it too , it goes beyond the other , for not only is the gospel a clearer promulgation of the eternal covenant , then that typical covenant was , whereby the glory of it may be seen more plainly , and with open face , then when it was seen onely in the type as a thing to come ( for we preach christum exhibitum christ crucified , a sacrifice already offered , and baptize and break bread in token hereof , but they ( and that in much dimnesse too ) christum exhibendum , a messiah to come , he was veiled , though seen through the veil in the old , but revealed in this new dispensation ) but also it is of larger extent in respect of the subject to which it belongs , for the revelation of it by preaching , and real proferring of the grace of it in the name of god ( who is not willing that any should perish , and fail of his grace unlesse they will ) is to all people in the world : the old administration of circumcision , and other pertinances of that covenant , which was the type of this , was limitted and narrowed into a little corner , the land of israel , the people of the iews , yea more the very new covenant administration that we are now under , as preaching , baptizing &c. while the old covenant did continue ( as it did for two or three year after the beginning of this by iohn , till christ crucified ) was streitned exceedingly above what it is among us , for saith christ then , go not into any way of the gentiles , but now since christ crucified its extended freely to every nation , and every person in it of capacity , of years to receive it ( and till then ( dying before ) they shall never be damned for rejecting it ) without any exception , as they believe , for go ( saith he ) into all the world &c. mark. mat. . then circumcision was limitted to males among the iews , but christ and baptism is to jew and gentile , male and female without difference as they believe , so that the grace is rather lengthned in the administration of baptism by taking in the females , that were not circumcised , then straitned by the denial of it to infants in their infancy onely , for even those also may be baptized too if they will , when they come to years : the grace of the new covenant therefore is even thus as well as otherwise better then the old , in respect of the extent of it , and its administration also to more subjects , for the jews onely were the subjects of that grace , and heirs by promise of the earthly canaan , but all the world are heirs of heaven by promise according as they repent and believe the gospel , besides , if you think that ever god took the whole body of that nation israel , that belonged all to the typical salvation of the old covenant , into the covenant of everlasting salvation by christ in relation to their fathers faith without their own , and thence conclude that the whole body of believers seed must be by faith of their parents admitted into that same covenant of the gospel , this is a meer chimaera of your own brain , for no such grace of god as this ( though some priests of the iews dreamed of it as well as you , for which they were pretty well curried by christ , and iohn mat. . iohn . ) ever was , now is , or ever shall be . as for our valuing believers infants as turks and pagans , i tell you we rate them higher then your selves , for we set them not so low as turks and pagans that are at years , and wicked , for they though not without many possibilities of life by christ , yet dying imp●enitents will be damned , as well as many of you that abuse more light , nor yet so low as the infants of turks and pagans , for though they ( dying in infancy ) are by your own doctrine all alike i. e. none deserving exemption by actual sin from salvation , yet living these have in likelihood more advantages for life then those of pagans , but you though you set by a few more then the ●est in your account ( and yet in some partes of your account too you make them equal ( yet no lesse then to one are valued little higher then the divels , for your speech p. . supposes that the divels may be saved as soon as the dying infants of turks and pagans . review . if they object children cannot be taught nor made to understand the sacraments ; no more could they at circumcision : if further that they shed tears at their baptism , as unwilling to receive it : so they did at circumcision ; if they say they were semen carnis , and had right by the promise : so these are semen fidei , & the promise is unto them : if they say the seal is often voided by their infidelity afterwards , because many baptized so young become reprobates : so it was among the iewes witnesse ishmael and esau and those of whom the apostle saith that they entered not in through unbelief . re-review . here you drive on four deep , and against a four fold assault , make a four fold repulse , pelting us a main , but with pellets of brown paper . to the first i reply , no more need they be taught at circumcision , but the baptized are commanded to be taught first , untill they believe mat. . , . mark . . . and also immediately after , which is so plain , that though here you answer by denying all possibility of childrens being taught before circumcision , yet else where viz. p. . and . you fence this off with such prety contrary quiddy stuff as this , viz. that as to baptism infants have a teaching , a hearing and a learning , for the spirit say you opens their ears , quo magistro , quam cito discitur quod docet : he doth it in them , and in adultis too , or else for all their hearing they l not believe : but that we shal have more to say to when we come to it , to the second that as unwilling as infants were to receive circumcision , and as tedious as it was to them , or servants either that received it , yet by express command if they were males in abrahams house , he was to dispense it to them , whether they were willing or no , but you have no such flat command to disease your little infants so far as to dip them in water ( for so you should if you baptizd them indeed ) whether they will or no. to the third o wonderful ! that abrahams own fleshly seed , even by isanc himself , by bare descent from their bodies ▪ unlesse they also believed as abraham did , could become , and be counted no more then bare semen carnis , the children of abrahams flesh , & have right by promise ( qua sic ) of no more then the earthly canaan , for ishmael though born of abraham , and circumcised also as a male of his house , was not heir by promise of so much as that gen. . . , . and yet that the fleshly seed of believing gentiles should become and be accounted no less then abrahams semen fidei , the children of his faith , and such high heirs thereby , as have right to the heavenly canaan . abrahams faith it seems doth not priviledge his own natural seed , so far as to be his seed in a spiritual relation , but the faith of every gentile priviledges his natural seed , so far as to be spiritually the seed of abraham : but sirs me thinks if any fleshly descent in the world could dignify the seed so descended with the high name of the spiritual seed of abraham , and heirs with him according to the heavenly promise , a fleshly descent from abraham , isaac and iacob should do it , yet even that meerly , without more , makes the seed no more then the natural seed of abraham , and heirs with him of only the earthly promise . yea , sirs , that abrahams seed is shut out from all spiritual kindred to their own faithful father abraham , notwithstanding the faith of that their father , unlesse they believe also themselves , and yet our seed who are but gentiles after the flesh are so specially , so spiritually a kin to abraham by the faith of us their fathers , without their own , is not only to equallize our seed with abrahams , which is the utmost you pretend to , but rather to reckon it as a higher race then that of abrahams , a matter which the most capacious brain pan of you all is no way capable clearly to conjecture . to the fourth that circumcision was not voided by the jewes after infidelity , for t was not set on supposition they had faith , neither was it after voided by their proving reprobates , for it was not set to signify them to be gods elect , they being not so at all ( as jewes i mean ) as to eternal life , but only to that earthly life in canaan , for had it been set to have supposed believers onely , and elect ones , then it must not have been set to ishmael and esau , for they were not at all known to be , but rather foreknown not to be the elected heirs of either canaan , viz. the typical or the true , for god who foresaw how in time they would deserve it , the one by scoffing , the other by selling both the birth-right , and the blessing , had to abraham gen. . , , . and to rebecca gen. . . either plainly , or figuratively foretold their rejection from both , yet both these were circumcised , and that neither of them in vain , sith being males in the house gods command was fulfilled in circumcising them , as well as others , but baptism which is lawful to be set to none but taught persons mat. . professed believers in token of remission of sins act. . is ever voided , and abused when dispensed to infants , not onely because there is no command for such a thing , but also because there is no use of such a thing to such as those , for before they are made guilty of commission of sins , they neither do , can , nor need believe remission , and when having committed sins they believe them to be r●mitted , their infant-baptism being transient , and not permanent ( as circumcision was ) doth no way become visibly evident to them it self ; much less can it be a visible evidence to them of the other . review . the reason of these objections against paedobaptism is this , because they understand not the nature of baptism , it is gods seal , he sets it , they that receive it are passive , in that he appoints it to be set to whomsoever he hath made the promise , and with whom he hath entered into covenant : a seal of an estate made to infants in their cradles is firm , so is god's : now here must be a sealing on the other side , for both parties must seal in a covenant , we seal when we believe , john . . the covenant is sealed on both sides when faith comes , god may set to his seal as he did to many of the iewes , and the seed made void to them through unbelief . the end of gods setting it to such as he foresaw would have no benefit of it , is the same with the making of his promises , and sending of his sonne , to let them know how he would have received them , how sure his mercies should have been unto them , but they would not . re-review . the reason of all your objectations against our way of baptism , and pleas for paedo-rantism which you practise is this , you understand not the nature of baptism : it is not gods seal which he sets ( which you sillily suppose ) for that is his spirit only as i shewed you plainly enough above , but gods sign which man sets , which they that receive aright , are not altogether passive in , but voluntary , and very active ; i. e. confessing their sins , calling on the name of the lord , desiring to be baptized , professing faith in order thereunto , going down in●o the water with the dispenser , and there setting their senses and understandings on work upon the sign , and things thereby signified , submitting their bodies freely to the dispensation . neither doth god appoint it to be set to whomsoever he hath barely made the promise , for in the word preached he makes it to every creature mark . . . but to such as professedly believe in that promise he hath made , and visibly , verily ( for ought we can judge ) have entered into covenant with him to become obedient , such only ( so far as it is possible for us to know ) are those , with whom he hath entred into covenant , for say you , there must be a sealing on the other side , and both parties must seal in a covenant we seal when ( and not before ) we believe : neither is the covenant sealed on both sides , so that it can be said these two parties are now entertained into covenant each with other , till faith come and that is not in infancy but after . and this your manner of speech ; viz. when faith comes , here implies to be your own opinion as well as ours , though else where as p. . . . . . . . . . you strenuously contend it , yea and ( to say the truth ) t is well nigh the whole businese of your book to assert and assay to prove it , that faith comes to infants in their infancy , and to make it appear to us ( as well as you can by contradiction ) that infants do believe . moreover , ( if ever men were troubled with the simples , i think you are ) is baptism gods seal of an estate , i. e. the heavenly inheritance made over to infants in their cradels ? and is that seal of his firm to , i. e , so sure that it cannot fail ? then i wonder how that seal , ( for so you still stile circumcision and baptism ) is made void and infirm to so many iews and christian people as it is , for not all , yea few of many do obtain that estate at last , and that most lose it for all that seal , you tell us by their unbelief : but i had thought you had been of the mind , when you wrote your th page , that children of iews , and of believing parents did believe all without any exception ; for asserting it there positively that the iews children did believe , and consequently that believers children do now , you prove the antecedent viz. that the iews children did believe , because god did witnesse it by setting to his seal circumcision , which if it were gods seal to them of their eternall salvation by faith , and witnesse to the world that they had faith also , that seal must be firm , and that testimony true concerning them all , being set to all as well as some , so that unlesse they depart from the faith , which you say god who cannot ly , witnessed they once had ( and that your principle of not falling from faith will in no wise give way too ) they could not possibly void it by unbelief , and so must necessarily and universally obtain the inheritance : but sith t is most clear you selves also yielding it , that they do not , therefore assuredly one of these must be true viz. either that circumcision was not to infants in their cradels gods seal of their eternal salvation ( as you say it was ) or else that that seal of god is not firm ( as you attest it is ) or else that god did not witnesse by it that those to whom it was set had faith ( as you say he did ) or else that gods witnesse and testimony was not true ( which were blasphemy to think ) or else that they fell from that faith , which at first they had in infancy ; and at the time of their circumcision ( and that self confutes you in another case ) among all which grant which you will to be true , you must contradict and convict your selves of falshood . and lastly , if the end of gods setting baptism to persons be no other then the very same with that of making his promises , and sending his son , meerly to let them know how he would have received them , how sure his mercies should have been unto them , but they would not , ( not to speak of your telling truth here unawares viz. that mans own will rejecting god first , and not gods own will first rejecting them without respect to their fore-seen rejection of him in time , is the true cause of their condemnation ) then as god makes his promises to all , and sends his son in his love a saviour to all , so baptism should be dispensed to all without exception , belonging as well as christ himself , tell they appear finally to reject him , to every one as well as any one in the world , but that being denied by both you and us , doth shew that the end of baptizing a person is somewhat more viz. not to beget him to the faith before he doth , but to improve him in it when he doth believe . to conclude , this whole train of stuff or long tail of that short shower of shot that went before it , is not of so much force as a scottish mist , nor scarce enough to wet a naked man to the skin , therefore bear with my folly in sheelding my self so much against it , i. e. in saying so much in answer to it , for a wise man would have said no more to it but mumm . review . the third argument is this . those that have the holy spirit , that have faith , the anabaptists will not deny but are the subjects of baptism , but children have so , as their justification declares , without which there is no salvation . hence it is that the adversaries are put to their shifts to finde out a new way for the salvation of infants , dying in their minority viz. the presentment of the satisfaction of christ without faith , otherwise they conclude they could not be saved ; which invention of theirs destroies the gospel covenant , which is the righteousnesse of faith , and either damns innumerable innocents , whose right to the kingdom of heaven our saviour hath declared ; or grounds their salvation upon a figment of their own brains , such as the scriptures are wholly silent in , and the churches of god never dreamed of . they alleadge two texts for their proof , rom. . . as by the offence of one judgement came upon all to condemnation , so by the righteousnesse of one the free-gift came upon all men unto justification of life , rom. . . election hath obtained it : of which two texts , the latter is nothing for them , for it excludes not justification , for the apoctle saith plainly , rom. . . those whom he predestinated he justified : and though the elect onely shall be saved , yet justification goes between . the former is directly against them , for it expressely mentions justification of life : so that the anabaptists must either prove that justification is not to go before salvation , and so pull in pieces the golden chain , by taking out the link , rom. . . or else that justification is not by faith , and so destroy the covenant of the gospel ; till when , they justly deserve the censure of damning all infants dying , contrary to evident testimony of scriptures , and the sentence of our saviour , that to them belongeth the kingdeme of heaven . and whosoever shall consider the impertinences of their proofs in a cause of so great consequence , shall have just cause to suspect all their other doctrines , and take heed how to take any thing upon trust from these new masters . re-review . here is an argument hath neither head nor tail in it able to hurt , for both have bin bruised already , we having had to do with them before , the one in the front , the other in the rear of the disputation : therefore no need , to fear it , yet sith it turns about again and reviews us , hisses in ou● faces , and makes such a flutter , as if it would both bite and sting us to death , i shall secure it a little further how ever . the head of the argument is this syllogism viz. such as have the holy spirit , and faith are the subjects of baptism , but children have so . the first proposition whereof you say the anabaptists will not deny , but i tell you what the anabaptists will do i know not , because , if there be such a people in the world , yet i never was so privy to their principles and practises as dr. featley and his fellows pretend to be , who paints them out , and presents them to the world in his title page as dipping naked , and daily : but in the name of s of them you commonly and abusively call so , i mean the truest baptists that are in england , i le be so bold as to deny it to be true without more , for t is not the inward unseen seeds of grace and faith , nor that invisible having of these , which is the u●most you dare or do affirm concerning infants , but the visible having thereof , so that we see they have them by the fruits , effects , acts , opperations , and professions , that quoad nos makes a subject for baptism : as for what is within it is nothing to us , we are strangers to it , neither can or may we intermeddle therewith , till it shews it self without : secret things belong to god onely , and things revealed onely to us , and therefore for your blind brazen faced minor , wherein you positively affirm here again , that children ( not specifying what children , nor whose , whether of believers or unbelievers , nor both , nor if of believers onely , whether all or onely some of them ) have the spirit , and faith , i shall be as bold to deny it ever , till they give some better specimen of it then the best infant that ever you or i saw did , in that nonage wherein you sprinkle them , specially so long as to the stark spoiling , utter unsaying and clear contradicting of whatever your own selves would prove it by , you are fain to confesse page . that all have them not , and p. . which have and which have n●● ( the spirit being no more bound to believers infants , then others , and no more bar'd from working in unbelievers infants than believers ) cannot be certainly presumed , and that whatever the spirit may work in children , yet this is not known to us , so that there can be no conclusion made . and howbeit this argument being by your own concession thus crushed in the head , i. e. this prosyllogism turns about with his tail , and thrusts at us therewith , i mean this ensuing syllogism , viz. no iustification nor salvation to them that have not faith . but justification and salvation is to infants . ergo infants have faith . yet i return thus to your major , viz. that though there is no justification nor salvation , without faith , of such as are capable to believe , and of whom to believe it is required , yet of such as neither are capable , nor called on to believe in order thereunto , there may be , and is a justification and salvation without it : and this is the case of all dying infants in the world , the presentment of the satisfaction of christ without faith , and without obedience also in any thing else , both which are in ordine ad vitam injoined to adult ones , doth save dying infants or else innumerable of those infants are damned , neither is this any new way for the salvation of infants dying in minority , nor a grounding their salvation upon a sigment , and invention of our own braines , nor such as the scripture is altogether silent in , nor such as destroyes the gospel covenant , which is the righteousness of faith : for howbeit it is true that the scripture runs on this wise , saying , the just shall live by faith , he that believes shall be saved , he that believes not shall be damned , and to him that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifyeth the ungodly , his faith shall be accounted unto him for righteousnesse , and twenty more such like expressions of the gospel covenant , rom. . rom. . iohn . &c. as that which gives righteousnesse , and life by faith only , without the works of the law , yet i beseech you set your wits on work , and see whether these scriptures were written of infants , or to them either , or whether only of , and to mens at years only , to shew unto them on what terms the lord will accept , and save them in the covenant and promise of the gospel : me thinks your own reason should dictate thus much , that all those places speak no more of infants , then they speak to them in minority , and that you will assuredly yield that they do not ; yea you may as well say these places , viz. t is a people that have no vnderstanding , therefore he that made them will not save them , and he that formed them will shew them no mercy , and the lord iesus shall come with flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not god , and obey not his gospel , and that because they received not the truth in the love thereof , that they might be saved , for this cause god shall send them strong delusions to believe lies that they all might be damned , who had pleasure in unrighteousnesse &c. who ere transgresseth and abideth not in the the doctrine of christ hath not god ; every soul that heareth not the voice of that prophet shall be destroyed , with the mouth confession is made unto salvation , and an hundred such like as speak of an necessity of good works as well as of faith , viz. self-denyall , taking up the cross and following christ &c. speak of and to infants in non age , while they know not their right hand from their left . but sirs oh that you would once understand ( for then all your intricacies , sottish , and absurd assertions , and disputes about infants would be ended , and save you a world of perplexity that now you are in by the ignorance of it ) that the word was not written as the way , and will of god concerning infants in infancy , but concerning men and women , in order to their salvation by christ , iohn . . . and this sirs , is no other answer then you use to give us , when we argue against infants believing thus , viz. faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word preached . but infants cannot hear so as to know christ by the word preached . ergo infants cannot believe . you tell us true ; faith in adultis can come no other way but by preaching , but in infantibus faith is begotten otherwise , so you fancy , but you have no scripture for it , as we have that faith comes no way but by hearing . babist . but that scripture rom. . speaks only of the way of faiths comming to adult ones . baptist , so say i of welnigh the whole body of scripture , it speaks of the way , wherein men at years must expect to be justifyed and saved , and not of infants , for they may be saved without faith , so when we plead with you against the baptizing of infants ( i mean such of you , and such there be amongst you as are ashamed , as well as some that are not , to say that infants have faith ) we tell you the scripture speaks only of baptism of persons confessing sin , professing faith , that faith and baptism use still to go together , as he that believeth and is baptized ; the corinthians hearing , believed and were baptized , if thou believest with all thy heart &c. therefore those that believe not may not be baptized : you tell us again of these places , and of all that ever we bring out of scripture , where baptism is mentioned , that they speak of adult persons , of whom t is confessed by you that faith and confession , and profession is required in order to baptism , but not of infants that cannot perform them . so pareus in vrsin cate. p. . . and also many others , and your answer is very true , and grants all that we desire , for indeed all the places , where ever baptism is mentioned throughout the scripture , do speak of it as in relation to grown persons , and not to infants , therefore because the scripture is wholly silent in such a thing , we dare not meddle to baptize infants , but as we grant your answer to be true , so i hope you will grant it to be as true in our present case , for if some of you , when we call for faith to a persons baptism , or else deny that person to be baptized , say thus , viz. true , no baptism without faith of such of whom faith is required , and who are capable to act it , i. e. of men at years , but infan●s being uncapable to act faith , and it being not required of them , therfore they may be baptized without it ( which conclusion you make without book to , for the word warrants you not to make it ) why may not we , when you call so universally for faith to every ones salvation , or else saying assuredly they are damned , return the like , viz true , no salvation without faith of persons capable to act it , and of whom it s required , but infants being uncapable to act it , and it being not required of them , therefore they may be saved without it . babist . this conclusion is spoken without book , and as unwarrantable by the scripture as you say ours ●s , sith the scripture speaks as much of salvation by faith , as of baptism upon faith ; and as little of salvation without faith , as it doth of baptism without it , therefore still we have at least as good ground to say infants may be baptized without faith , as you have to assert they may be saved without it . baptist. no : i shall leave you behind here , for sith the scripture speaks of the impossibility of infants believing , and yet with all of their saluation , as your selves confesse in your own interpretation of that clause viz. of such is the kingdome of heaven , but no where at all of their baptism , it shews that they may be saved without believing , but shews not that they may be baptized without it ; besides to hold any of them to be damned , before they have by actual sin debard themselves of salvation is abominable cruelty , and breach of christian charity with you , who yet confesse that all of them have not faith p. . but to hold they need not to be baptized cannot bear the like construction , sith t is acknowledged by them that deny their bap●ism , and by them also who absurdly assert , to the contradiction of themselves , that the denyal of baptism to them denies all hope of their salvation that they may be saved nevertheless , though they die unbaptized , so that whether we , who hold that to them all belongs the kindome of heaven though they neither believe nor are baptized , before they die , or you that hold no salvation to them without faith , and yet hold that all of them have not , nay that very few of them ( for how few are believers infants to others ? ) have faith , whether we or you i say do justly deserve the censure of damning all , or at least innumerable infants dying , contrary to that evident testimony of scripture , and sentence of our saviour , that to them belongeth the kingdome of heaven , and contrary also to the rule of christian charity set us by your selves , which is to presume well of every infant that he is in a good estate , till he appear to be in a bad , and by actual sin to bar himself , and deserve exemption from the general state of little children declared in scripture , which is this that they have right to the kingdome , let the most simple , but honest reader judge between us . as for the two texts you say are brought in proof of justification of infants without faith viz. rom. . . rom. . . who urges the last of them i know not , for my part i take it to be of no tendency at all either to your purpose or ours , therefore i shall not trouble my self with it , but the first of them , which you say is so directly against us , t is because you are blind , if you do not perceive it to be an express downright declaration of a general justification of all from adams sin , as to life , i. e. a resurrection from that bodily death , which that sin brought upon all mankind , and from which as there is now a universal return of every individual by christ , so there had never bin any returning for any one man in the world , but by christ to all eternity world without end , cor. . . . yea as universally as that judgement or condemnation to that first death came by adam upon all men , so that it spreads its black wings upon them all , and brings them all down to the dust from whence they came , so universally is justification unto life i. e the benefit and resurrection from that death , from which else no one man should ever have risen , come by christ upon all men , really and truly , and not onely so , but a capacity also , and possibility of eternal happinesse and well being after that resurrection , and all this whether persons believe it yea or no , yea and a promise and certainty of it in case of belief in this christ , otherwise indeed a losse of the resurrections becoming a mercy , and benefit to them , and a lyablenesse even after that escape of the first death , that came by the first adam , to a sorer , even that second death , that lake of fire , which by the second adam , by whom comes eternal blessednesse on believers , comes upon all unbelievers , and that for ever . so that if there be no salvation to infants without justification , yet ther 's justification of infants without faith , or baptism either . and whereas you argue from the cart to the horse , from the justification and salvation of infants to their faith , i argue from their non capacity to believe to their justification and salvation without it : no salvation or justification without faith , say you , but infants are justified and saved therefore they believe : if no justification and salvation without faith , say i , infants , who cannot believe can neither be justified nor saved : but infants , so farre as they need justification , for they have no sins of their own , are justified and saved also , for the kingdome of heaven belongs to them , therefore there is justification and salvation for infants without faith . to conclude therefore : this opinion of you adversaries to the truth , which allows no salvation to infants without faith , puts you miserably to your shifts viz. either to find out a new way of coming by faith , which paul saies comes onely by hearing , or else to damn innumerable dying infants , who whilest they lived , were uncapable to hear the word preached , and so to believe , or else ▪ as you do p. . to dream out a new kind of hearing , whereby infants come by their faith , viz. an inward , wonderful miraculous hearing of some voice of the spirit within , such a sigment of your own brains , as the scripture is wholly silent in , and no true church of god , nor rational man , but your selves , who dream dreams , and divine ●alse divinations , and things of nought , deceits of your own heart , and tell them to the deceiving of others , did ever dream of ; and whosoever shall consider the impertinencies of your proofs in a cause of so great consequence , shall have just cause to suspect all your other doctrines , and to take heed how they take any thing any more upon trust , as the whole world hath done now of old , from these new masters , the clergy , who instead of being ministers in truth , or servi servorum dei , have bin domini dominorum lords over the heritage , and over the faith of all civil powers and people , teaching them instead , of the true doctrine of the old ministers , the traditions and commandements of men . and so i have done both with the head of this third argument , and with that long tail also that trails after , there remains no more of it to be meddled with , but a certain slender sting that sticks to this tail , put forth against us , with more length then strength , in prosecution of the argument , which i shall cut out into many pieces , and after set upon each section severally , and then i hope your great hope of help from these three unworthies , will prove a forlorn hope indeed . review . but to prosecute this argument for the full satisfaction of the simple but honest reader , since there is no way to come to salvation but by justification , and no justificatnon but by faith , why should it be doubted by any but little infants , which are ordained to salvation , are also by faith made subjects of justification ? those soules which please god so well as they are to see him presently after their separation from the body , why should they not be capable of faith , without which the apostle saith it is impossible to please god , heb. . . re-review . the reader had need be honest , for i dare say he will be simple enough , that receives full satisfaction your way by your present prosecutions of it ; because there 's no way for salvation and justification for men that are actual sinners , and capable to believe , and to whom justification and remission is preached , to the end that they might believe it to their comfort , is there therefore no other way wherby god willing , and ordaining to save little infants from eternal wrath , can possibly , or doth certainly save them , that can neither sin , or be preacht to , nor believe , but that very self same way of believing ? is he tied to that means to save infants by , as we are tied to it in order to the saving of our selves , viz. the way of faith ? if so , why not to repentance , and self denial also ? for both these are the way to us , act. . . . mat. . . and would it not shift a man out of his seven sences to hear such doctrine , that infants as ever they will be saved ( dying infants ) must even in their infancy repent ? is it not manifold more suitable to reason , and sense of scripture that as infants ( so far as they are guilty ) become guilty unwittingly to themselves , by the presentment and imputation of the first adams sin , without personal disobedience in themselves , so also should be justified from that imputed sin , by the presentment of the satisfaction and imputation of the righteousness of the second adam , as unwittingly to , and without personal obedience in themselves ? and because without faith t is impossible to please god , for such as have actually incurred his wrath , such as come to him by prayer , for these indeed must believe that is god , and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him ) ther fore is it impossible for infants also who yet actually disspensed him , nor yet are capable to come to him by belief or prayer . is that scripture think you intended to infants ? for shame scope the scripture a little better . review . is it not the work of the spirit to infuse faith ? and are not soules which are all equall in their creation the subject of it ? he works indeed where he will , and therefore all have it not ▪ for the spirit of god is not bound but where he will work it who can hinder him . re-review . are soules all equal in their creation , and are souls which are all equal the subject of faith ? how then can it be so positively asserted , concluded , attempted to be discovered , and made appear as t is by you , who confess also that all have it not , that the infants of believers have it and therefore must be baptized , but infidels infants have it not , and there must not ? specially since not only the one , by by your own saying that all souls are equall , are as capable of it as the other , if the spirit please to infuse it , but also since by your own saying too , the spirit works it where he will , and is not bound i. e. ( as you explain this place p. . ) to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor barred from working it in any of the children of infidels , and most especially yet , since p. . you say that unlesse it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit of faith , what have not , the working of the spirit being not known to us , he being not bound nor bard there can be no conclusion made . have not we as much power to forbid the spirits working faith in the infant you sprinkle , and so to forbid their being baptized as you have to forbid his working it in the infants of infidels , and to forbid their being baptized ? will you bind him to all the infants in christendome , and barr him from doing any other infants in the world ? o ye house of levi is the spirit of the lord thus streitned ? are these your doings ? you that preach the spirit of the lord is not bound nor barred , do not you both bind and bar him , while you say and suppose he must needs , and is by the gospel covenant bound to be gracious , and shew mercy to believers children , alias such as are born in england , scotland and other nations of christendome , so that you may safely sign them all as heirs of his mercy , and barred from saving any infants of turks and pagans , so that not one of them may be signed forsomuch as an hopeful heir of salvation . review . john baptist had not been filled with the holy spirit had he had not faith luke . . the scripture shews us plainly in that one example what the soul of infants is capable of , what the spirit of god can work in that , it was the measure only of his gifts , makes his example extraordinary , the spirit and power of eliah in which he came : the testimony of an angel renders it undoubted concerning him . the testimony of the scriptures concerning other infants are of equal authority saying , they have right to the kindome of heaven , and that they are called to come to christ , and that christ received them and blessed them ; compared with that of the apostle , cor. . . iesus christ is in you except ye be reprobates ? the argument is this , they are not reprobates . ergo christ is in them . re-review not to trouble the world with a re-review of every odd conceit , that lies in this piece of review about that particular instance , and extraordinary case of iohn , which you mightily misunderstand , and most rudely wrest in as ordinary rule in proof of an universal ; and also about the proof of believers infants , being no reprobates from cor. . . a place most absurdly abused by you , for it speaks not to nor of infants , and if it did , no more of one infant then of an another , no infants appearing reprobates in infancy , and of their right to heaven above all infants , all which passages being spoken to above may be reviewed there by any that have a mind to it , the utmost intent and drift of this whole section is to prove infants to be capable of faith , which thing if it should be granted for truth , yet i wonder how that redound● to infant-baptism , since it s neither bare capacity , nor actuality of believing , but professing to believe , that is our warrant to dispense baptism to any subject , for i● will not follow from the having of faith to bap●ism , unlesse that faith be professed , much lesse will it follow from a capableness to believe or have faith , that a person hath it and therefore must be baptized . for then first heathen infants are as capable of it as other infants , all souls being equall in their creation , therefore they must be baptized also , yea sirs , if you give back , and let your argument fall so low now , as to say infants are capable of faith and therefore must be baptized before they have , or appear to have it , then i le warrant every ones right to baptism as well as any ones , thus , viz. the souls of men and women are capable of faith before they believe , and whether ever they do believe or no , the spirit of god can work it in them . therefore men and women before they believe , or whether they believe or no , must be baptized . yea all souls are as capable subjects of faith as well as the souls of believers infants , and therefore must be baptized . but sirs though persons be not only capable subjects to believe , but such also as ( for ought you know to the contr●ry ) do believe , and of whom you cannot say they do not , yet may you not at all baptize them , w●thout some kind of evidence that they do ; and that 's more then in particular any infant can give for it self ; and as for that muddy manner you argue it in when you say , the kingdome of heaven consists of infants , they are called to come to christ , and christ received them , therefore they must be baptized besides that those indefinit expressions ex●end no more to believers infants then unbelievers , we may as well argue thus , the kingdome of heaven consists of men , men and women have right to it , are called to come to christ , received and blessed by him , therefore men and women , or these men and women , whether it be evident of them in perticular or individuo yea or no , may be baptized , which were absurd non-sense in the abstract : yet such are your pleas for those particular infants you sprinkle , whilest you deny baptism to heathen infants , viz. the testimony of scripture in gross , and infants capablenesse to have the inward baptism , and such like : on this wise did dr. channel at petworth dispute ian. . . saying , if infants are capable of the inward baptism , then they may have the out ward . but &c. and could not prove the consequence or sequel of his major four times over repeated by himself , and as often denyed by his respondent . review . the difficultie in the understanding how faith should be bred in them , and after what manner , is that which hath bred the doubts about their having it ; but if we had learned to believe the scriptures , which by necessary consequence confirm the thing , we would leave the manner of doing it to him whose work it is , the spirit of god , who is able to do it : we do it in other articles of faith , and the resurrection of the body , and ask not how it can be done , because the scriptures have delivered it ; and this of the renovation of soul is no lesse miracle . re-review . and well may it be difficult to understand how faith should be bred in infants , and doubted that they have it not , since if we have learned to believe the scriptures , they are so far from confirming such a thing so much as by any possible , or probable consequence , that by necessary consequence they contradict it , while they tell us that there is but one way whereby faith cometh , and that such a one as it can never possibly come to infants in , viz. hearing the word of god preached , not inwardly by the spirit only ( as you prate below ) for he speaks not of such a thing there rom. . but outwardly by some visible , or audible creaturely ministration , as is plain by the words foregoing , viz. how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? how hear without a preacher ? how preach except they be sent . and whereas you tell us the spirit is able to work faith in them , therefore we must leave the manner of doing it to him , not offering as it were to pry into it . good sirs spare your labor & talk not about the unknown manner , of a matter as unknown as the other : for the thing it self is not yet clear in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , neither doth the spirits ability to do it , prove that it is done , any more then it proves there is a worlds , or that all men have faith , because these things are possible to be effected by him , but the evidence that he doth such a thing , which if it be wanting ( as it is in this case ) it is but egregious folly to argue it from the other , so as to say god can do it , therefore though the manner how he doth it is not known to us , yet we must not meddle further then to believe it is , leaving the manner of doing it to him . moreover sirs , assure your selves of this that in some sort the manner is usually manifested to us in the word , as well as the matter of such things , as we are there called upon to believe , even that miraculous work of the resurrection of the body , which is your present instance , wherein cor. . . to the end . the lord condescendeth at large to explain the manner o● it , as well as to prove the matter of it before : and whereas you say you leave the manner of the doing things when it is nor clear to you , to the spirit himself , whose the work is , in other articles of faith , i wonder you are so forgetful as to bear such false witnesse as this against your selves , when as in the point of dying infants salvation , which for the matter of it is so clear , that you cannot deny it , though not clear to you in the manner , you leave not the manner of it to god himself , whose work it is to save them , but limit him to the way of church-membership , faith , baptism , and holinesse &c. whereas the word , that was not at all for infants instruction , declares to men and women what way he will save them in , asking in many places of your book , how can infants be justified without faith ? how can turks and pagans infants be saved ? what hopes of our infant salvation without baptism ? and all this too , though there is no fear of their damnation by actual sin , though it also ask you plainly enough , how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard , and consequently how can they be saved by faith ? though it tell you also plainly enough act. . where that question is expressely askt what hinders &c. even because they yet believe not with all their heart , you had said true therefore had your words bin thus viz. we do it not in other articles of faith . and whereas you say the renovation of a soul is no lesse miracle then the matter of infants having faith , it seems you confesse it to be a miracle , that faith should be in infants : and for my part i fully conf●sse it with you , for surely t is such a thing as was seldome or never yet seen since the world began to this day : but the renovation i. e. conversion of soules of men , and women depraved , and corrupted ( as infants never were by any actual sin p. . ) is no lesse miracle indeed then the other : for the one is not at all , and the other where it is , is yet no miracle at all , but a matter that happens ever and anon in the ordinary course of things , as a miracle doth not , and besides you are of those i am sure , who are in the mind that miracles are ceased . and lastly , for you to sprinkle all the new born infants in all the christian nations at this hour , as taking it for granted that these all have faith ( for so you suppose ( though you see not any individual or particular infant hath it , that is brought to you ) and yet hold infants faith to be a miracle , and yet to hold miracles to be ceased also , it is , if not miraculum , yet mirandum monstrum et horrendum , at least to me i. e. a marvelous work and a wonder that ever the wisdome of wise men should so perish , and the understanding of prudent men so come to nought . thus having done with your forlorn hope , i le march on now to give checkmate to that wretched crew of cavillers , that are so impudent , as to be responsive against reason and its regiment , and to undertake to make it good against them , that infants have faith , and must have baptism . review . the objection that reason makes against it will easily be answered , it is done for satisfaction to the reader . re-review . yea sirs ? is reason in so little request with you , as that you not onely dare so audaciously ingage against , but also set so light by it , as to say its objections are easily answered ? let it be put to the vo●e if you please throughout the whole earth , whether you deserve the title of good logicians i. e. reasonable men , who here professedly wrestle against reason it self , and whether your faith can possibly be found any other then faction and meer fiction , against which reason it self is by your selves confest to be opponent . i confesse i have heard men ( called divines ) speak of many points of religion and faith as above reason , but i yet never met with men under the name of ministers , so far devoid of reason , as to say that religion and faith are against reason , till i met with you , whose faith and practise of baptism to believers infants ( upon account of their appearing to believe , more plainly then the profession of persons at years can make it appear of themselves ) is , as seems by your selves , a faith and practise against reason , why else doth reason object against it . indeed the papists a●e so unreasonable in sundry articles of their faith that they hold some things not onely above but against reason , and that 's t●e worst that can be said of the most absurd , and ●bominable tenets that are amongst them , and that is so bad , that even thereupon the protestant priesthood finds occasion enough to abhor them , witnesse their tenet of transubstantiation , or real presence of christs very body in the supper , of which when we say how can this be ? its not onely against other articles of faith viz. his bodily ascention , session , and local mansion in heaven , but also against common sense and reason , it being in reason impossible , that one body should be at once in two places , as well as in consubstantiation it is for two distinct bodies viz. the bread and christs body to be at once in one place , they say much what as you say here , and in the lines above viz. that howbeit its difficult to understand how it should be so in reason , yet if we had learnt to believe the scriptures , which in plain terms assert the thing , saying of the bread this is my body , we would believe it , and leave the manner of its being so to him who saies it , with whom all things are possible , as we do in the articles of faith e g. the resurrection of the body , not asking how it can be because the scriptures have declared it . the reformists tell them again that the resurrection of the dead is a thing not onely in respect of god , who can do all things ( save such as imply imperfection , as to lie , and die , &c. and contradiction , for its impossible utterly that pure contradictories should be both true ) but also in respect of the thing it self possible to be effected , but the ubiquity , and the actual universal eating of one and the same numerical body , and so smal a body too as that of christs , and at one and the same time , in so many several places , are matters and fancies savouring of such contradiction , and so adverse to the very nature of god , that as kekerman system . log . p. . saies , ne deus quidem producere potest ; et logica eas e suis excludit ordinibus : such as god doth not , and reason knows not . o but saith the papists , nothing but humane reason judges this impossible and repugnant to other articles of faith : to whom among other things our divines use to reply , that in matters of religion , and faith , and things of god , reason is not to be laid aside , as if we were to bring bare bruit sence i. e. blind implicit faith onely to the word of god , but to be used by us , that we may thereby , as without which we cannot , distinguish truth from falshood : yea to speak yet in the very words of your own author in this case , i mean vrsins catachise , to which you send us , whose these words mostly are , which i have already spoken , see page . . for even therefore was reason given us of god , that we might by the light of the mind discover contradictory opinions , and clearly understanding what is agreeable to the word of god , and what repugnant to it , may imbrace this , and refuse that : hoc nisi firmum maneat , nullum erit dogma tam absurdum , &c. vnlesse this stand for granted , no opinion , though never so absurd , and impious , yea nothing in the sincks of all hereticks , though never so impure and monstrous , can be confuted out of the holy scripture ; for hereticks , and deceivers will reply , their opinions do not contradict the word of god , but onely it seems so to humane reason . you see then how among your own writers , the foundation of faith and true religion , is laid not onely in the scripture as the rule and fountain whence we fetch all , but secondarily in sound reason also , improved in way of trial of things by it , as without which no use can be made of scripture : so that though some divines proclaim it to the whole world ( for so do your selves in this place ) that reason it self is against them in their way , and consequently that their way is against reason , and many divines confesse their faith and religion in some articles , and particles of it to be above reason ( which is but a gentle-gigg too , if by above reason they mean so , as that reason cannot comprehend how they are , at least conceive them possible so to be ) yet however farewel such a faith for ever for me , as reason fights with , and far be it from me either to do , or believe any thing against reason : for as they that see not good ground in reason to believe what they believe , can never be alwayes ready ( as every christian ought ) to render a reasonable answer to such as ask them a reason of the faith that is in them , and are at best but implicit in believing , so they , who believe not only without , and beyond , but even against reason it self , opposing them in their faith , are most unreasonable believers indeed : and such as shall find , that reason ( as easily as they think t is answered ) will make good what objection it makes against the most unreasonable of them all : but to leave this , and to come to the discourse or ratiocination it self , which followes between reason and reasonlese , for what else can i fitly stile such an antagonist , as stiffens himself against reason , and counts it nothing to refute it ? yea t is done here in your review for satisfaction to the reader ( as you say ) but t is undone again in the re-review to the undeception of the deceived and the deceiver . the objections of reason , and replies of reasonlesse and re-replies of reasons friend are as followes . review . infants have no knowledge of good , or evil , ergo no faith . by the same reason they should be denied to have the faculty of understanding , the exercise of their faculty they have not , no more have they of their faith , not the act but the habit , as was said before . re-review . good sirs , consider what a reasonlesse reply to reason this is . for if by faith you mean only a faculty of believing , what ever in time may be told them , which is the adaequate object of faith in general , that is in all reasonable creatures : and is de esse to them , universally , innate in them , as a part of the rationall soul , as well as the faculty of remembring what in time they may hear , and of willing , and chosing what in time may be propounded to them and of understanding what in time may be taught them ; but what is all this to your purpose , who plead faiths being in some infants onely , not in all : when as faith in that sense is as much in all infants as in some , and would ( if it could at all entitle such as have it to baptism ) entitle all mankind to baptism as well as some , sith all have the faculty of believing things ( as beasts which are meerly sensitive have not ) flowing naturally from the rationall soul in man ? but if by faith you mean restrictively , that faith in special , whose adequate object is the word of god preached , in the promise and precept of it , which onely makes us subjects of salvation and baptism , dare you say that t is of equal necessitie , and certainty that faith in such a sense is in infants , as the faculty of rea●on , and understanding is ? so that by the same reason that we deny one of these to be in them , it may be therefore denied that they have the other ? and that their non knowledge of good or evill will as much prove them to be habitually no reasonable creatures , as it proves them to be habitually no true believers of the gospel ? for shame sirs blot out and abjure this absurdity , for you cannot but know that the faculty of understanding in man is habitus a naturâ innatus , a habit ingendred in them in very nature , yea in all mankind necessarily , & qua id ipsum : but your selves say faith , in the sense in which we speak of it , is but habitus infusus , a habit infused , and that into some only , for all say you have it not , and i say t is habitus acquisitus , rather an acquired habit , which comes if not without the gift of god to persons therein , yet also in that way of hearing the word , which on our parts is first done , in order to its being begotten in us , whereby we come to know good and evil first , i. e. to be convinced of sin and guilt in our selves , and righteousness and mercy in god , through jesus christ , and then to have faith in him to justification : in this therefore reason remains unrefuted , and rather routs you , then is routed by you . review . . their dislike at baptism testifyed by their crying : if they had faith they could endure it with much patience . the same reason might be brought against circumcision , children , when they felt the pain , it is likely cried as much : besides , we must denie faith to be in the best of gods children , if their sense under the cross , and their complaing of it be an argum●nt to conclude against it : against the weaknesse of faith it may , not against the being . re-review . had circumcision bin administred on perswasion that the subjects to whom it was set were believers ( as baptism is to be acts . ) this same reason might have been brough also against infants circumcision , though i must confesse it to be the least among an that in reason may be brought to disprove infants believing , and therefore possibly you ( whom i observe sometimes to set up a man of straw , of least strength to annoy you , and then to shew your skill in fencing at him ) have singled out this easie opposite to encounter with ; and yet ( so far as i see ) you do not ( as the proverb is ) give him as he brings neither : but circumcision , as is we●l known , well-nigh to every body but your selves , was dispensed to persons upon a far different account from this , viz. meerly on their being males of a jewish houshold , and sometimes one a more slender acquaintance with abrahams family then so , witness the whole city of the shechemites , whose males were all all circumcised on meer hopes of their princes mariage with iacobs daughter : but t was not dispensed as you senselessly suppose it was on supposition of its subjects having faith : for as there was not present evidence to any body that any of those infants that were signed had faith , so ( for all your childish conclusion p. . that the children of the jewes had faith , witness their circumcision , therefore the children of believing parents have now ) by ●uture experience t was evident to every body that they had it not : how else came they to be complained on in general , when at years , as a body of wicked ones , and unb●lievers , unlesse you will say they lost , and fell from their faith , as i am sure you dare not , and for my part i cannot say they did , except i could see more clearly then yet i do see , or you can ever make me see that at first they had it . as for your further following flim-flam , wherein you tell us that we must deny faith to be in the best of gods children , as well as in little children , if their sense under the cross and their complaining of it be an argument to conclude against their faith ; i give you to understand sirs , that its an ignorant inconsequence , and so you will your selves discern it to be , by then you have weighed what a difference there is , between that voluntary submission , which by the power of faith in the saints is acted , and yielded to the cross , and yoak of christ , in either circumcision or baptism , or any other difficult duty , or dispensation , service or suffering they are called to for christs sake , and that forced and not more unpleasant then unwelcome imposition of it , that is made when that cross , or yoak , viz. the affliction , or pain of circumcision or baptism , is put upon the necks of infants , for the one freely choses it , when they have the liberty to refuse and decline it , if they please , and therefore though they have some sense out to the flesh , no affliction being joyous , but grievous , yet are so far from complaining of it , that they rather comply with it of their own accord , as counting it better then to be without it , witnesse moses , who by faith chose rather affliction and reproach with christ , as deeming these better then the pleasures and treasures of egypt , which were at his choice as well as these , but the other , i. e. infants are so far from offering themselves to either dutie , or difficulty for christ , as by faith esteeming it better so to do then to escape , that they rather are solely sensible of the smart , so as to gainsay , refuse and avoid it what they can , but onely that will they nill they , men make them bear it , and cross them whether they will or no ; neither can infants by faith choose , well-come or delight in either the disease that is by dipping , or the sore that seconds circumcision , but suffer both full sore against their wills ; and whereas you say the sense of the cross may conclude against the weaknesse of faith , not against the being : that clause reasons reasonlesly against reason indeed , for it hath neither good sense nor reason in it to your own purpose , or ours either ▪ the best i can make on it for your turn is to suppose it a meer mistake , and that 's the least a man so concerned to meddle with it as i am , can well say of it , for surely sirs if i read it right , you write it wrong , and set down your mind in words , the sense whereof is just contrary to your meaning : for certainly you would or at least should have said [ against the strength or greatness of faith and you say [ against the weakness of it ] if this were but lapsus calami , when t was penned , yet t was lapsus animi , and error mentis too , to let it passe uncorrected , when t was printed ; but most of all when t was corrected after the presse : for verily among all the printers mistakes , which you hint to me in that corrected copy you sent me , when you summoned me to answer your pamphlet , there 's no mention of this mistake of the penman , who cannot impute this as an oversight , of the printer but of the overseers themselves , which weakness ( to conclude with you in your own kind ) may serve to conclude against the exercise , and eminency of your reason , though not against the being of reason in you at all . review . why are they not after admitted to the supper ? because the apostle expressely requires of every one that comes to examine himself cor. . . if any such thing were required of all that are to be baptized , they might lawfully be barred from that . re-review . here reason demands of you why after baptism you admit not infants to the supper ? and good reason too for cui signum et signatum , is a pigg of your own sow , and i add ; cui admissio , et accessio per , et post baptismum , cui incorporatio , ei continuatio , progressio , corporis communio fractione panis , et precibus , acts . . cui nativitas ei facultas auctrix , nutrix ; et quare non nutrimentum ? he that hath the thing signified ( as infants of believers appear it seems to have to you , but not to us more then other infants i. e. indeed not at all ) must have the sign , he that hath membership must have fellowship in things pertaining to the body , he that is once born growes , and is nourished , yea ( to speak in mr. blakes phrase ) being of the houshold , they must have of the food of the houshold , the stewards of the mysteries of god must be accountable in case they do deny it , why therefore should not infants have the supper ? babist . in answer to which i tell you that baptism is an initial sacrament of our spiritual birth , and entrance onely into the church , of both which infants being capable , in token thereof must be baptized so soon as they are born , specially of spiritual parents ( though that be but a fleshly birth neither , that hath no more appearance of the spirit , or spiritualnesse in it then is in the birth of the children of the most carnall in the world ) but the supper is a sacrament of our spiritual growth , nourishment , continuance , further establishment &c. of which infants being not so capable , are consequently not capable of the supper till they come to age , and become men of some growth . baptist. as if there is not a growth ensuing every birth , even the spiritual as well as the naturall , and as if every babe as well spiritually as naturally born , doth not continue , and desire the sincere milk i. e. to suck and receive nourishment and relief , as if mr. blake were out ( and so i suppose he is , but not that he supposes himself so to be ) in saying to the confutation of his fellow helpers ( as he doth p. . ) that children of believers have such timly knowledge of god , as to be sucking in somewhat of him , whilst they suck milk from the breast , which if it be true , then if one sign belong to them , the other doth also , because the things signified severally in both do belong , and they are as capable to eat , and to drink as to be dipt , and to know the meaning of one as of the other , and in order to the one i. e. the supper as capable to examine themselves , as to believe with all their hearts in order to the other i. e. baptism , why therefore not have that sacrament of their spiritual nourishment , as well as that sacrament of their spiritual birth ? but if it be false , then ( besides the untruth of mr. blakes testimony ) there is sure no such thing in infants as spirituall growth and nourishment , and so consequently in infancy no spiritual birth neither , and so no right in token of either to be admitted , either to one sacrament or the other : but your reply to reason in this place is this viz. self-examination is to praecede in the subjects of the supper , no such matter in the subjects of baptism . no sirs ? are not repentance from dead works , and belief towards god with all the heart , and confession of sins , and calling on god such kind of matters ? is not self-examination ever praevious to repentance lam. . . let us search , and try , and turn , was there ever any confession of sin without it ? yet these things are all required in order unto baptism . doth not philip to one that askt him this question , why may i not be baptized ? return this answer , if thou believest with all thy heart thou mayest ? and doth not that imply that else he might not ? as much as let a man examine himself , and so let him eat , is as much as to say or else he may not . babist . that was spoken by philip first to a man , and not to an infant , secondly , to one man onely , and not to all . baptist. was not that of paul spoken of man onely at years ? yet is it reckoned by you exclusive of infants , and why not philips also ? secondly if philip spake but to one single man , and ananias to another , when the one said if thou believest thou mayest be baptized , and the other arise and be baptized calling on the lord &c. yet iohn baptist spake to more then one , even to all the people that came forth to his baptism , or to be baptized of him when he said repent , and amend your lives , and they did so , and were baptized of him in iordan accordingly , confessing their sins i. e. they that were at all baptized by him ; and peter said repent as well as be baptized to all that he preacht to , yea repent every one of you exempting no one from repentance , to whom he enjoined baptism and they did so , and were baptized accordingly i. e. as many ( no more , for else it s a fallacious relation ) as gladly received his word , that did not infants , therefore all this is also as exclusive of them from baptism surely , as let a man examine himself , and so let him eat is exclusive of them from the supper , or else i le never trust reason more , but f●rgo it , and become as reasonlesse as your selves . to conclude then , in granting positively that without self-examination there is no right of accesse to the supper , and also in granting it suppositively , that if there be any thing equivalent to that required of all that are to be baptized , then infants may lawfully be barred from baptism , you answer as answerably to reason as men can do , or even reason it self : but in supposing that no such thing as self-examination is required in order to baptism , as it is to the receiving of the supper , you wretchedly bewray your self-non-examination of the scripture . review . . when they come to ripe years not one of millions gives testimony of his faith without further instruction . nor should he of his reasonable soul , not so much as in speaking if he be not taught . re-review . first , the faculty of not onely believing in general , but also in special of believing the gospel , of believing in christ to justification is belike as naturally , and necessarily in infants of believers , as the faculty of reason it self , so it seems by your talk , why else is that frequent analogy made by you between these two , and such frequent allusion in proof of one of them to the other , as if whosoever denies one of them viz. the grace of saving faith to be in such infants must needs also deny the other , and as if whatsoever concludes against such infants being believers concludes as much against their being reasonable creatures ? i am much amazed at your ignorance in this , specially since your selves agree , that all infants , even those of indians , turks and pagans are reasonable creatures , and yet that few , not one of many infants are habitually believers , as namely the infants of believers onely . secondly i blush at your rudenesse and folly in this also in that you assert , that not one infant of millions should give any testimony of his reasonable soul i. e. ever evidence it that he is a reasonable creature , when he comes to ripe years , if he be not taught . what s●●s , will children never shew themselves to be risible , and so consequently reasonable by laughing , when tickt and toid with in such minority , as they are not capable to learn in , if they be not taught and instructed how to laugh ? will they not shew themselves intelligible , if not so much as in speaking , which with you it seems is the first , and least expression of reason in them , yet not so much as by understanding what is spoken to them ? yea how think you , must they not be imagined , and understood in some measure to be understanding , and so consequently to have reasonable souls before they can be rationally instructed at all ? for verily he is a fool , unreasonable , and of no understanding himself , that offers to teach children to act any act of reason , that is to be produced by teaching , or to know their letters , or to read , or write before they can discern them to be at least intelligible , and teachable in these things they are to be taught in , and consequently to have reasonable souls : yea verily the faculty of reason is habitus naturâ innatus and naturâ notus , a habit that comes by generation , and puts forth it self into several acts of it self , even so many as clearly testifie it to be in us before we are at capacity to be taught , and whether ever we be taught any thing or no , for a specimen of reason in us must be before we begin to be endoctrinated , or else as good endoctrinate a brute creature : but justifying faith , or belief of the gospel is such a habit of which we may not onely say ( as you do truly in the next page ) p. . that instruction of the understanding , in the object of it in some sort must ●o before any act of it can be discovered , as whereby onely say you discovery of the habit can be made , but also that instruction of the understanding in some sort must go before the habit of it can be in us at all : for whether you will suppose it to come by infusion onely , or by aquisition onely , or both , it comes not by nature and generation ( as reason doth ) but by teaching and instruction , if we will believe the word , which saith faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the word of god. review . . they lose it again when they come to more years , else why are they taught the element of faith ? by the same reason they should lose the faculty of understanding also , because after they are set to learning : learning is for the bringing forth into act , and perfecting of the degrees ; otherwise one that is at . years of age , having received faith once , might give over learning more : for if this argument might hold either they lose it , or why do they learn ? re-review . hoop sirs ! what pretty , cutted stuff is here ? as if you did not know well enough , but that , for advantage sake to your crooked cause , you rather chuse here to seem ignorant of it , that reaching and learning is not onely for the further bringing forth of habits that are in us into their acts , and perfecting of them in their degrees , but also for the begetting of some habits in us that never were before viz. not natural and innate habits , as the faculty of reason and understanding , for instruction is not for the engendring , but improving of these in us , but all such kind of habits as faith is viz. acquired habits ; teaching tends not onely , to the perfecting of such a posteriori after they are once begun , but a priori also to the very being , and begetting of these , whether they be habits about matters of this life , or that to come , t is true therefore learning is to be continued for the perfecting of habits begun , and begotten in a man , otherwise indeed ( as you say ) one of years , having once received the faith , need be taught no more , but it is to be also for the beginning and begetting of faith in him , otherwise to one at years of age having not yet received it , the faith is preacht by you in vain that he may receive it . there is a teaching to beget grace and faith where it is not , and a teaching to increase it where it is , mat. . . . a teaching before , and a teaching after faith and baptism , and if you ask a reason of both these , the one is to beget faith into both the habit , and the act , the other to build it up into higher degrees , the second teaching indeed supposes a being of it in men , the first teaching no being of it as yet when you begin first to preach to them , for your preaching speaks to them as to unbelievers : whereupon this argument holds good , that if ever they had faith in their infancy , they have lost it now , for why else are they taught the element of it ? why taught in order to the receiving it ? for reason in this objection must be understood as speaking suppositively onely i. e. in case persons had faith in infancy it s now lost , why else are they taught to this end that they might have it ? but not so positively as your expressions represent it , as if reason did really assert that infants do lose any faith they had in infancy , for howbeit reason acknowledges that such in whom faith is , may lose it if they look not to it , yet reason knows well enough that those can never be said to lose faith , in whom faith never was at all . review . . habits encline more towards their proper actions , but children of christians are not more inclined to actions of faith then infidels . an argument from comparison is subject to many exceptions ; caeteris paribus being to be proved before it can hold , if the objector had considerd that among children born of the same christian parents , under the same education , one gives a better specimen , not only in acts of piety , and religion , but knowledge ; he would not have concluded to the denyal of the habit of faith in one , more then of the faculty of understanding in the other . we must necessarily hold , . the habit of faith must be , before it can work . ▪ that the spirit of god infuses this habit . . that he is not bound to work it in the children of christian parents , nor barred from working it in any of the children of infidels . . whersoever this habit is , it inclines to holy actions when there is opportunity , and the season for bringing them forth . . this inclination is not equally alike in all in whom the habits themselves are . sampson and david are sufficient instances ; david for exceeding in acts of piety and relegion . . instruction of the understanding in matter of faith in some sort , must go before any act of faith can be discovered . lastly , that no judgement of science can be passed till the acts themselves be seen and examined , for a posteriore onely the discovery of habits is made . these premised , the answer is , . that unlesse it could be certainly presumed what children have the habit , what have not , for the working of the spirit is not known to us , he is not bound nor barred , there can be no conclusion made . . that in those children where there is lesse promptnesse to acts of faith then in others , we cannot argue ad negationem habitus , because they work not equally . lastly , by this cross interrogatory , are those children of infidels , with which the objector makes his comparison , being called and instructed , inclined to acts of faith or not ? if the former , it presupposes they have the habit , and so the working in them , and those born of believing parents may be one . if the later , the argument is deny'd , for the children of christians are more inclin'd . re-review . this is wit whether wilt thou : i think he is wise that well knows either what you say , or what to say to what you say , so reasonless are severall pieces of the return that is here rendred to reasons objection . i speak not of a few faults , which in the first part of it escaped the presse , and made it nonsence , for those you corrected in the copy you sent to me , so that i might do no less then do you right so far as to transprint it ( as i have done ) according to your own emendation : nec tibi typographi crimina dem vitio . but of the faults which escaped the pen , or rather the pates of those that composed this rambling responsion , the major part of which , whether it past from you willingly , and ingenuously , or rashly , and unadvisedly rather i know not , is a most flat unsaying of most of that you have said before ; and much of what you say again in the next page after , and an acknowledgement of the clear contrary to that , which you have hitherto tugged for , and which you persue the proof of well-nigh throughout your whole pamphlet , an absolute overturning of the basis on which your book builds infants baptism , which is this assertion , viz. that it sufficiently appears that these little infants in particular have faith , meaning infants of believers in contradistinction to those of turks and pagans , whom as concerning their original condition , and their birth-right to salvation you rather rank with the devils , then with the children of christians ; i say a plain deponing of that position you ground all on , viz. that t is apparent the infants you sprinkle do believe , and so a serving of our turn as much as we desire ; and as for that little which seems not so directly for us , though by reason of , not the profundity ( for t is shallow enough ) but the darkness , and muddiness of the matter , it be hard to see clearly to the bottom of it , yet if i do truly sound the sense of it , and reach to the utmost of your meaning in it , it seemes to speak as little for your selves . you tell us first , that an argument from comparison is subject to many objections , and cannot hold , unlesse caeteris paribus be first proved ; whereby you subject the most of your own arguments in the present point to exception , for i appeal to your selves , and all men to judge , whether they are not mostly drawn from comparisons between the children of the jewes , and the children of gentile believers , the circumcision of the one , and baptism of the other ; and yet caeteris paribus is not at all proved by you to this hour , nor yet ever can be , sith caeteris imparibus , i mean disagreement almost in all things between jewes children and christians , between circumcision and baptism is so manifestly made appear by us , that there hardly appears any analogy at all between them . besides , secondly , so far as to the freeing of this argument from comparison between infidels and christians infants , so as that it may hold without any exception , caeteris paribus is granted by your selves , for if by this parity in other things you mean an equality of souls by creation , your selves assert that parity but a page above , viz. p. . where you say all souls are equall in their creation , and so the souls of believers and unbelievers infants . but thirdly , if by parity in other things , which you would have proved , you mean an equallity in their natural capacities , and endowments of wit and ingenuity , then either there is such a parity in infants of christians and infidels , or else so far as disparity is , the excellency may much rather of the two be supposed to be in the children of christians , in whom yet caeteris paribus , suppose them to have the same education , and instruction , there is no more inclination to believe in christ by verrue of any habit of faith infused into them in infancy above the other , then there is in the children of indians . next you tell us , if the objector had considered &c. he would not have concluded thus as he doth , the objector you say is reason , so that reason belike was much besides it self in arguing so unreasonably against your fiction of faith in the infants of christians ; but what if reason should consider the very same , that you here wish it would , must its conclusion against the belief of believers infants be thereupon ere a whit the more unconcluded ? and what though among children born of the same christian parents , under the same education , one gives a better specimen , not onely in acts of piety and religion , but of knowledge also , may not therefore the habit of faith be more groundedly denyed to be in one , then the facultie of understanding can be denyed to be in the other . what still sirs ? still will you make the being of faith in the infants of christians of equall necessity with the being of the principle of reason and facultie of understanding in infants ? the faculty of understanding is an innate habit necessarily to be concluded , and that in the highest degree to be in all infants , t is in omni , per se , quâ ipsum , but faith in christ is by your own confession , but an infused habit , and by your own confession as not in all infants , so in you know not which , and which not till you see them act it : and yet by your own conclusion ( to go round again ) t is in such not in such , viz. not at all in turks and pagans infants ( for they are all in a damnable condition with you ) but in all infants of christians , even such as yet give no specimen of it , and that so necessarily , that a man may as truly deny that which is naturall to them , even the faculty of understanding , as deny the habit of faith to be in them . next in order to a fuller , and more direct answer you prepare the way by a pannel of six or seven positions , which you say you must necessarily hold , concerning two or three of which we may say it s no great matter whether you hold them or no , for any undoubted , and infallible truth that is to be found in them , in the sense wherein you take them , or at least for any great matter of assistance , that acrues to your cause by them , and as for the rest , of which you say you must necessarily hold them , you might have said rather you must necessarily yield them to us , for indeed they are the giving up of your cause , and no other then the drawing of a dash with your own pen over all that ever you say , throughout the residue of your works , as concerning that sufficient appearance of faith , you assert to be in believers infants : yea he is blind that doth not see you thereby perfectly blotting out again , what ever you penned in that particular with your own hands . first say you the habit of faith must be before it can work , i know no necessity of holding this for truth , neither indeed would you hold it but that you imagine faith to be another kind of habit then it is , for there are more kinds of habits then one , though you speak of habit by the lump all along , as if you were aware of but one , for here 's ore and ore again , habit , habit , habit , habit , habit , but not the least hint of what kind of habit you mean ; you are never the men that distinguish of habits , whereas qui bene distinguit bene docet , there being some habits acquired , and obtained no otherwise then by acting , and faith it self is such a habit , as will hardly be proved ( for all your confidence in the contrary ) to be any other , at least to be apparent in any one , or visible to the view of others till some act thereof hath past the persons in whom it is , neither is any one in the world , that i know of habitually a believer in christ , till having heard of him or his word he doth actually believe . secondly , whereas you say the spirit of god infuses this habit ; i grant he infuses it , if you take the word infuse in a true sense i. e. for begetting it in persons by the preaching of the word , other infusion of faith ( if yet that may be properly called infusion , which is a phrase rather of your own coining in this case ) the word knows none : god indeed gives it , but he gives it in the way of hearing the word of faith , in the way of hearing christ preached , in which way he never gave it to infants , neither is it his gift to them in any other : the spirit works it , but not without the use of means , not per saltum , and in nictu oculi i. e. so suddenly as you fancy , but by the discharge of that office he bears from the father to that end and purpose , towards the whole world , i. e. moving , striving , perswading inwardly , whilest the word doth without , inlightning , convincing a man of sin in himself , of righteousness to be had , and of a judgement to come , wherein we shall be saved , or damned according as we believe , or believe not , accept , or neglect so great salvation ; upon which motions and convictions , which are ●tricter and stronger in some then in other some , some yield , and believe , and obey the gospel , and some for all this rebel and obey not , so that t is true the spirit thus effects the business within us yet not so as that he is said wholly to do it without us ; he is the supreme efficient , the operative cause of it , but we are to be concurrent cum causà operante , we have a part to do as well as he , when he hath done his part towards us , i. e. to believe , which if we do not , he will not force us , he will go no further , nor shall he be blamed , but we , and we not onely blamed , but damnd for not doing it accordingly : but if we do believe , and turn at his reproof ; then indeed there is a promise of an infusion , or rather effusion of the spirit in other i. e. those more special and peculiar offices , of a witnesse to our spirits , that we are gods children , a seal , a comforter , a revealer of the things freely given us of god , a supporter under suffering &c. all which it performes towards the saints , and in ●espect of which onely its called the holy spirit of promise eph. . . in this manner the spirit of god in order to that sweet infusion of it self into us may be said ( if you will call it infusion , for which a fitter word may be found ) to inf●se i. e. to work faith , other infu●ion of faith into men , much lesse into i●fants , or such a downright infusion as i suppose you dream on , the scripture makes no mention of at all . thirdly in that you say he is not bound to work it in all the children of christian parents , nor barred from working it in any of the children of infide●● : this indeed you must necessarily hold ( as you say ) for t is undeniable truth , but in holding it you must wholly let go all you held before , concerning believes infants appearing to have faith , and that in contradistinction to the infants of unbelievers ; for first you use to say as p. . out of act. . that the promise of it is to believers , and their seed , i. e. as believers seed , and so consequently to all , and onely their seed , not the seed of unbelievers : for quod convenit qua ipsum , convenit om●● , soli , semper , belongs alwayes , to all of one sort , and not any man of another , and thereby you use to bind the spirit ( unlesse he will bee unfaithfull ) to work faith , as without which you think he cannot give them salvation , in all the seed of believers , for a promise that is made to such or such a seed ( qua si ) must needs be sure as the scripture saith romans . . and made good ( or else god that cannot lie breaketh his word ) to all the seed to whom ( as such ) it is made . but sith now you say that the spirit is not bound to give faith and salvation to believers seed , nor barred from giving it to any of the seed of infidels , which is as much as to say he is at liberty from all obligation of himself by promise to either of these above the other , and to work it in which he pleases , you will i hope ( unless you be more ashamed of seeming to have been ignorant , then ashamed of your ignorance , so as to give glory to god by confessing it ) relinquish that wonted position of a birth priviledge in this point , in believers seed , more t●en in others , which you ground and prove from that promise a●t . . and ingenu●usly confesse , that for ought you know the one hath no more ingagemeat of god to them by promise then the other : so that unlesse there were more warrant then you have to single out one from the other as the special subjects of baptism , and heirs of salvation , you ought to baptize them all alike i. e. in very deed to let them all alone till you come , as in inf●ncy you confesse you cannot , to presume what children have the habit of saith , and what have not . fourthly , where as you say wheresoever the habit of faith is , it inclines to holy actions , when there is opportunity and the season for bringing them forth : whether this be necessary to be held or no , yet wee l hold it to do you a pleasure in calling you thereby from your false cause , for else its like to do you more displeasure in your cause of infants faith , then you well considered , when you penned and printed it : for wheresoever faith is , the opportunity and season for its bearing fruit , and working by love and other holy actions is ever present and perpetual : yea its never unopportune or unseasonable for him that hath faith to be acting obedience in one thing or other : yea if any one say i have faith and have not works , and holy actions , much lesse , if no inclinablenesse to holy actions , that faith cannot save , nor stand him instead faith without works being dead and profiting nothing : therefore if where ever faith is it inclines to holy actions when opportunity and season for it is , then i am sure there is no faith at all in infants , for there is no opportunity or season at all in infancy , wherein faith is found fruitfull in them : and if you will say they have faith though you have no evidence of it , and prove it is so because it is so , then it is a faith without works , and that faith is dead , unprofitable and cannot save them , iames . and if so , you would be better opinioned towards infants in my mind , to hold them saved without faith , then to hold they have a faith which cannot save them , for better never a whit at all then never the better . fiftly , whereas you say that this inclination to holy actions is not equally alike in all , in whom the habits themselves are , that may be so too , yet sampson and david are no such sufficient instances of it , but that more sufficient might have been given , for as there are many worthy things recorded which both these did by the power of faith , heb. . so he of whom you say he exceeded in acts of piety was in some things , not to say as impious , yet impious as well as the other ; besides to make comparisons between two such worthies , as doing , the one more good , the other lesse , both which by faith did no lesse the subdue , and in their times fully deliver israel from the philistines , for which the spirit is pleased to record , and recommend them both as examples to all ages , and rank them among others , of whom the world was not worthy , in one line heb. . . caeteris paribus unproved too , such comparison ( if any be so ) is beyond all comparison odious , and subject to many exceptions , but be it all just as you have said it , yet as little yields it to the support of your infant faith , and childish baptism , as if you had said nothing at all . sixthly , whereas you say that instruction of the understanding in matter of faith in some sort must go before any act of faith can be discovered . and seventhly and lastly , that no judgement of science can be passed i. e. true demonstration made of this habit of faith till the acts themselves be seen , and examined , and that a posteriore onely the discovery of habits is made , and then from all these preparative premises draw up your conclusive answer in three heads answering thus in the first place viz. that it cannot be certainly presumed what children have faith , what have not , and that the working of the spirit in that particular is not known to us , and ore again also that the spirit is not bound nor barred , and therefore there can be no conclusion made . i say t is all necessarily to be held for truth , yea t is a truth so preciously pertinent to our purpose against the purpose of your own pamphlet , that had we been to conclude in a little compasse all that need be said toward the appearance of this position viz. that it doth not sufficiently appear by any evidence of it in their infancy , that infants of believers have faith , any more then other infants , we could not in so few words have spoken so pithily to such a purpose , which when i consider , i cannot but wonder , and conceive you will once wonder at your selves , when your eyes are open , that they whose words all these are should act against them all , so absurdly , as to make it the biggest business throughout their book , to make it appear and that sufficiently , that believers infants have faith beyond other infants . babist . a charitable judgement concerning their having faith is sufficient to admit them to baptism , and that is the utmost that we assert can be had of their belief , not a judgement of certainty . baptist. a judgement of charity that there 's faith in persons sufficiently , warrantably , and certainly grounded is sufficient to baptize upon , and such is that judgement on which we baptize , who baptize none , but such as the word requires us to believe to be believers i : e. such as personally profess so to be , and of such as those , though we have but a judgement of charity concerning their faith , yet have we from precept and president out of the word a judgement of certainty concerning their right to baptism , but a judgement of charity taken up on meer fancy and conceit , without warrant from , or rather against both scripture and reason , warrants no man to dispense baptism upon it , as from god , for if it do i may as well baptize the great turk as a little infant , and no better is your judgement of charity concerning faith in little infants , upon which you attempt to baptize them . babist . our charity is better grounded then so , yea far better than yours , as certain as it is , and is as due to children of believing parents , as to persons at years ; for we have gods testimony concerning them in this matter , whilest you have but mans testimony concerning himself , yea christ hath amply declared his good will to them in scripture , whose testimony is not onely tanta-mount , but to be preferred before mens , from which it more plainly appears , that infants have faith , then the testimony of any particular person can make it appear for himself . baptist , so you say indeed both before page . and behind p. . but how dare you assert then that you go not about to prove certainly , but only probably that believers infants do believe , for verily if it be so as you say that god himself gives testimony for them in scripture , that these little infants do believe , then never say no judgement of science can be passed , no discovery made of the habit of faith , nor peremptory presuming what infants have faith , and what not till you see them act it : for gods testimony is more credible then mans indeed , hath he said it and is it not so ? yea verily let him be true , but every man a lyar ; for mans own word can create but probability and charity , and not so much neither , unless he speak it from gods word that believers infants do believe , and infidels infants do not , but if god have said so , then cursed be he that will not believe it to be so , for if his word be not perfectly demonstrative , and scientifical and past all doubt , ( but i confesse i find not a word of his concerning such a thing ) then i le never trust self confuting clergy men any more . . whereas you answer that in those children , where there is lesse promptness to acts of faith then in others , we cannot argue ad negationem habitus , because they work not equally . what is this to the present question and position concerning no more inclinablenesse to holy actions in children of christians , then of infidels ? for those are such of whom your selves assert the one have faith , the other have none : but these you speak of now are adult ones , such as in whom there is some promptness to acts of faith appearing , differenced only secundum magis & minus , some inclining more some lesse to acts of faith , concerning all whom , sith those of them that have least promptness , have at least an apparent promptnesse to acts of faith , who denies but that they may have faith , though they work not equally ? but what 's this to the proof of more , or lesse inclinablenesse to holy actions among infants , who are so far from having some more some lesse , that even none of them have any promptnesse thereto at all ? . whereas you fiddle it on a little further , and think to coop us up by your crosse interrogatory , you may well call it a crosse one indeed , for its a net that catches your selves , let us answer it which way soever you would have us . for if we say heathens infants are inclined to acts of faith , and should make that good against you , as we shall hardly ere trouble our selves to do , unlesse we did believe it to be truth , can you give any just account of your denial of baptism to these ? yea who can forbid water why they may not be baptized , that have and are inclined to act faith as well as the other , and in whom as in those of believing parents the work is palpably at least possibly and probably the very same ? but if we say no , infidels infants are not inclined , then we must take what comes on it , for you are resolved to hit us home indeed , and so you do , while you do that at last cast , which had you done at first , you had saved your selves a deal of hurt , which you have done your selves , by circumlocuting so long in way of proving the very minor proposition of that last argument which reason urged against you , viz. that christians children are not more inclined to actions of faith then those of infidels ; for at last you fall flatly as your safest way to deny that minor , and assert contrarily thereto , that children of christians are more inclined to holy actions , then other children , which if it be true . first how grosly do you contradict that you say in the lines above , where you seem to grant that there may be more inclinablenesse in infidels children , and promptnesse to holy actions then in christians ? secondly , i wonder how you come to be experienced in it , for if you clergie men be all christians , and so you are in your own account , your children ( excepting some that by the breeding you give them , grow up to the same stamp of christianity you print upon them ) do ( for all their native holy inclinations ) not seldome prove the lewdest and rudest of any mens children in a countrey ; for not onely through the priests and prophets own practise , but from their posterity too oft times prophaness goes out into all the world , or else the popes had never filled it with iniquitie as they have done . the nex● objection of reason is as followes . review . . faith comes by hearing . little children cannot hear , must lesse understand . ergo they have no faith . they might also conclude they have no faculty of understanding neither , for that comes by hearing : but infants have an hearing , the spirit opens their ears he must do it in adultis , or for all their hearing they will never believe . he is not tyed to means though we are , without the outward hearing of the word he works faith in little children . the manner of his working is miraculous , as it is in the conversion of every soul , enough hath been said to that before ; nor ought it to be objected , if miraculous then not ordinary ; for the work of the spirit in the conversion of men is both . re-review . had reason had the managing , representing and writing of this argument her self , she would not have set it down in so weak , absurd and silly a manner , as reasonlesse hath done it in in this place . reason never held such a thing yet as is asserted in this minor , viz. that children cannot hear , much lesse understand , for abstract hearing from understanding , and take these two in sensu diviso ( as you do here ) and children can hear ; but in sensu composito they cannot : it cannot rationally nor truly be said they cannot so much as hear , much lesse understand , but they cannot hear so as to understand , or they cannot hear understandingly , as those must that hear in order to believing , and whose faith comes by hearing : a hearing t is true infants have , for they are not destitute of that sense , more then of seeing , and the rest : auriculas asini quis non habet ? the same hearing , that an asse , horse , or other bruit beast hath , which is only the sound of words , without the knowledge of the sense , who hath not , save he that is deaf but the hearing they have is neither such as paul speaks of there , nor yet that heating you say they have , viz. an inward hearing of the voice of christ , and the spirit opening their ears so as to make them learn things as adult ones do , that is a meer figm●nt , of your own fancies : besides if they had such an internal hearing as you dream of , what were that to the matter in hand , or to the answering the objection , that is grounded upon the alledged scripture , which speaks not of an inward but an outward hearing the word of god preached , as that by which faith is begotten , and without which it cannot come ? out of which outward way and meanes if persons be brought to believe as usually as by it ( and so it must needs be if little infants believe by the understanding of ce●tain secret whisperings and teachings within ) the spirit would not have spoken of it , as such an unpossible case as he doth , in saying how can they believe on him of whom they have not heard ? and how hear without a preacher ? but say you that is the usual means , by which faith is begotten in adult ones but the spirit is not tyed to meanes though we are , he works faith in little children without the outward hearing of the word . is it so sirs , that the spirit is not tyed to work by means in little children , in the same cases , wherein he works by means in men , and women ? i wonder then that you , whose opinion this is , should be so forgetful , as to teach quite contrary to your own tenet , for verily of all the men that are , i know none that limit the spirit , and tie him to means in his dealings with little infants , like unto your selves . as for us we own this position fully , and to a tittle viz. that what god acts at all for infants , he acts without meanes , as to their salvation , but as for your selves you own and disclaim this by turnes , according as it seems to serve your own turnes : so far as to hold it helpes to hold up your monstrous odd opinion of infants faith , which hath no footing at all in scripture , you inwardly entertain it , and outwardly proclaim it for undoubted truth : but when you find it makes against you , then t is no other then a figment of the anabaptists , for when we tell you there is no right to baptism without faith , but infants cannot believe , because faith comes by hearing understandingly the word preached , which infants cannot do then such of you as rantize infants on such a sottish supposition , as their having faith in themselves , excuse the matter thus viz. the spirit is not tied to means , nor to the outward way of hearing the word , so but that though he begets men to faith that way , and by that means , yet he begets infants to believe without it : and such of you as ashamed to assert that the infants themselves have faith , do rantize them on the fathers faith without their own , excuse the matter thus viz. the spirit is not bound to admit infants to baptism in that same way wherein he admits men , viz. the way of faith , but admits infants to have right to it without that outward means of believing : but when we tell you faith and baptism are the way wherein , and the outward means by which the spirit justifies and saves men and women , but without this outward way of faith and baptism , he can and doth save dying infants , and that the spirit is not tied to the same means of belief and baptism , in the justifying and saving infants through christ , by which , and which onely he saves men , then you plainly disclaim what you proclaimd for truth before viz. the spirit is not tied to means in infants , but works without them in infants , though not in men , and hold that he doth work by means among them so , that there is no hope to be had by parents of the salvation of their infants , out of the way of baptism , and no justification of them on of the way of belief . thus you tie and unty , confine and lose the spirit at your pleasure , you give him leave , for your own lusts sake , either to approve of your baptism of children out of his own declared and onely approved way of faith , or if it be needfull as some of you think it is , for infants to believe in order to baptism , then to beget faith without that outward means of hearing the word , but though it is his own good will to justifie and save dying infants by christ without the outward means of faith and baptism , there he is limitted , and cannot obtain your good will , he must give way to you to baptize infants , out of that ordinary way of faith , wherein his will is that men shall be baptized : but he may not save infants out of the ordinary way of faith and baptism , wherein his will is that men by christ shall be saved , no not by any means in the world . there 's but a matter of four gross , false , unsound , and absurd assertions in this reasonless reply , which i must intreat you to be ashamed of before i leave it . the first is that old piece of sing song , which is canted ore some three or four times before , but would be rather recanted , if you were not resolved on perseverance in perverseness ; wherein you tune it out as if faith in christ , and the faculty of understanding were both so con-naturally and con-necessarily in believers infants , and them onely , that we may as rationally and safely conclude neither to be in them , as not both . this blue vain of artificial non-sense keeps its course well nigh throughout this whole discourse of yours against reason , so that every foot when reason alledges a●y thing that 's clearly conclusive against the being of belief in christ in believers infants , as namely their not knowing good and evil , their giving no testimony of faith when at years without instruction , nor upon instruction neither sometimes , so much as the adult children of unbelievers , their not having any faith at all for the most part , witnesse your successelessenesse in your preachings to your parishes to beget it , whereby it is evident , that either they never yet had it when rantized , or else have lost it if they had , their non-inclinablenesse to believe ( caeteris paribus ) more then other peoples children , their uncapablenesse to hear the word with understanding , which is the only way and means , whereby the word declares faith to be given , and to be gotten , you answer all along ( cuckoo-like ) in one tone , and that 's this viz. that by the same reason we may conclude against the faculty of understanding in them , and against their having a reasonable soul , as if it were full as clear , and altogether as absurd to doubt that these infants have faith ( which yet your selves confesse you cannot presume , what infants have , and what have not ) as to doubt that they have the reasonable soul , which is notoriously known to every novice in very nature to be in all mankind by nature without exception , and that so also , as essentially to difference them from other creatures . the second remaining and remarkable absurdity is this viz. in that you most shamelessely assert that the faculty of understanding comes to persons by the same way and means , whereby justifying faith comes , and no other i. e. by hearing the word preached , for when reason argues against infants believing thus viz. faith comes by hearing the word of god , but infants cannot hear so as to understand the word of god preached , ergo , not believe ; you reply thus viz. they might also conclude they have no faculty of understanding neither , for that i. e. the faculty of understanding comes by hearing i. e. as faith doth , o prodigious piece of priestly prudence ! did ever any ; but men minded to manifest their folly to all men , utter such a thing , that the faculty of understanding comes , as faith in christ viz. by hearing the word of god , are not the faculties of the soul of man , i say the faculties of it , i. e. the facultie of understanding , the faculty of the will so inseperable from it , so essential to it that a person is neither sooner nor longer a reasonable soul , then it hath these ? i confesse that plus notitiae , or acquisitio ulterioris intelligentiae , increase of knowledge , and the obtaining of more and more understanding may come by hearing , wherein the faculty of understanding being set on work , not onely exercises , but improves it self also , and comes to act it self on more intelligible objects then before , now newly discovered to it , but that ipsa facultas intelligendi , or ipse intellectus , the very faculty of understanding it self , which comes by nature , and generation , and is as essentially in man , as the reasonable soul it self , doth come by hearing , is such a mess of matter , as was never heard of to this hour , nor can i conceive what kind of hearing any faculty of the soul can come by , sith the understanding and will must both be known to be in persons , and they thereby to be both reasonable , intelligible and eligible creatures before they can be fit subjects to be spoken to , and before intelligible , or eligible objects can reasonably , seasonably , or any other wise then senslessely be propounded to them in preaching , neither , if at all they had such a monstrous kind of inward teaching from the spirit , as you talk of , can they have even that teaching , before they have the faculty of understanding , for that teaching must be at least after they have a being , but they are not in being sooner then the faculty of understanding hath a being in them : yea in order of time the sense of hearing it self is not in us before it . and howbeit the axiome be true , if rightly taken , nil est in intellectu quod non prius fuerit in sensu , the understanding apprehends nothing , which some sense or other doth not first some way or other apprehend , yet still the faculty of understanding , whereby we conceive , and the will whereby we receive , begin to be in us at least as soon as the senses , whereby we outwardly perceive i. e. as we our selves begin to be . thirdly , other ridiculous silly stuff , that with the rest this section is stufft with , is this , in that you would seem to make the spiri●s converting , and begetting little children to faith to be some strange miraculous , and more marvellous piece of businesse then his converting and begetting faith in grown persons , because in infants he uses not that ordinary means , whereby he converts men ; without the outward preaching of the word ( say you ) he works faith in little children , his manner of working i. e. in little children is miraculous , and yet when all comes to all , instead of proving ( as one might very well expect you should do ) that the conversion of infants is such a different , transcendent and wonderfull matter , ore that of men is , you confesse plainly in the very next words , that the conversion of every soul , is a matter as miraculous as that : as also above p. . where your words are these , the renovation of a soul ( meaning of any soules of either adult ones , or infants ) is no lesse a miracle then that of the resurrection of the dead , which you mind us of here also , saying , enough hath been said to that before , and i say too much , unlesse it were beetter , for they are both alike egregiously absurd , and full of falshood : as for the conversion of infants , at . or . . or . daies old , for then you sprinkle them upon that account , t is a figment , a meer ens rationis , and yet i can hardly call it so , so little reason is in it , unlesse i may call a non entity so , or that which never hath a being any further then in the brains that broac hit , in a word nothing at all , and therefore no miraculous thing at all , for that which is not , is not a miracle : and for the conversion of men unto the faith of christ , it is so far from being miraculous , that of the two , though indeed neither of them is properly a miracle , it is more to be admired rather , that no more persons are converted , and that considering the pains , patience , and goodnesse of god , that leads to repentance , the plain dispensations of himself to men in promises , and threats , and discoveries of the way of their peace , they should yet be so obstinate and unbelieving . it was wonderful and marvellous indeed that the jewes ( for the most part ) did not believe in the wildernesse , for all they saw so many of gods wonderfull works ; but no wonder that some few of them did : herein is a marvellous thing that ye know not whence christ is , i. e. own him not by faith , as the sonne of god ( saith the man ioh. . . ) and yet he hath opened mine ●yes : t was not so marvelous that men believed in christ , when they heard his words , and saw his works , but much rather because they believed not , act. . . t is wonderful when gods works are not believed though declared , yea christ himself is therfore said to marvel at their unbelief , mark . . t is not marvellous that some men see and accept of excellent things , when they are shewn and tendred to them , but that most men seeing do not see them , much lesse is a persons believing as great a miracle , as the resurrection of the body from the dead , for then t was as great a miracle that many jewes believed on christ , when they saw him raise lazarus , as it was that he raised him from the dead , which thing , who ever doth believe , i believe him in that particular to be a marvelous unwise man for his labor , it being rather no lesse then marvellous stupidity , that when they saw christs marvelous works , yet for all that they did not believe on him . besides if every conversion of a sinner to the faith be a miracle , the gift of working miracles is given to men as commonly in these daies , as in the apostles , for how usual a thing is it now for men by the gift , that is in them , and given them from above as instruments under god ( and no other were they that wrought miracles ) to convert sinners from the evil of their waies ? but that cannot be granted by you however , who cry out that the working of miracles was an extraordinary gift , that hath ceased since the times of the apostles ; finally the conversion of souls of men to faith by the preaching of the word is that , which is effected ordinarily , and therefore is not miraculous , for ordinary and miraculous are clear contrary , so that they do rather tollere se invicem , then are capable to be denominated of one thing both at once , for an ordinary thing is not only that , which comes to passe usually , and frequently , but chiefly which is accomplished secundum ordinem , according ●o a common order of meanes , and constant course of second causes , as faith in infants doth not , being wrought ( if at all ) without the outward means , as your selves confesse , and even thereupon , and in that very respect here called miraculous , and if i could ever see such a thing at all ( as neither you nor i ever did ) i should say it were a miracle indeed , to see an infant believe on him , of whom understandingly they never heard , but miracles are such things , which as they are done more rarely then other things , so when they are done , t is ( if not contra ) yet at least praeter , extra , supra ordinem , either against , or besides , or out of , or above the usual way , not keeping the accustomed use of means , nor process of second causes . fourthly , whereas to back one absurdity with another you assert the work of the spirit , in the conversion of men , i. e. adult ones , which is by outward means , to be both ordinary and miraculous , i judge it to be as very a bull as ever was conceived , and gendred in the braines , or calved out of the mouth of man. review . . the only scruple is the making it appear concerning particular children , which are brought to be baptized , whether they have faith or no , for say the anabaptists faith is an inseparable condition required in persons to be baptized and we know not the heart nor the work of the spirit . though enough hath been said to this in the disputation , yet these two things are added for further satisfaction . . that true faith is not required in every one to be baptized , for then none but justifyed persons should be baptized , and those that are apostates afterwards , must be said to fall totally and finally from grace . . that a charitable judgement concerning their having faith is sufficient to admit them to baptism , which judgement is as due to children of believing parents , as to any of years that make profession . first , because the scripture hath so amply declared the good will of christ to them , which is tantamount to any ones single profession of himself . secondly , because we know nothing against any particulars , wherby they should be excepted from such judgement . re-review . you begin first to storm the rear or last clause of that argumentative matter , which you have here charged upon the anabaptists , as their opinion : but you might have spared that pains if you had pleased , for those you call anabaptists assert not such a thing , as that is , they say not that faith , but that an outward appearance or profession of faith is an inseperable condition required in persons before they be baptized by them , for they know not what belief is in the heart , but as confession of christ is made with the mouth , and profession of him in the words and works : whether therefore persons have faith or not , and whether there be any ( as he that is blind sees no such ) that receive the truth in truth for a time , and after fall totally from it , that is neither here nor there to us , in this case , for if there be inwardly no dram of faith at all , yet if there be such an outward serious profession made of it , that we thereupon ( i say again ) thereupon , and not on charity misgrounded , can judge it to be , we are excused in baptizing such hypocrites and apostates , and their comming to holy things with unhallowed hearts will be not upon us , but themselves , but if there be never so much faith in the heart , and no profession of it without , whereby it appears concerning this and that particular person , that he believes , so far as we can discern , god will not hold us guiltlesse in baptizing such persons for taking his name in vain . that opinion therefore of a necessity of faiths being really in persons , as well as a profession of it before we may baptize them , reasonlesse might as well have writen under his own head , as under the head of reason , for that is owned no more by one then by the other , t is a real profession of it , that in foro hominum gives admission and warrants the administration , which because it neither is , no● can be made by any particular infant , and consequently no appearance made , that it hath faith , therefore infants may not be baptized . this indeed remaines a scruple unremoved by you to this very hour , or is rather a matter unscrupled and altogether undoubted by us , viz. that it cannot be made appear concerning this or that particular infant ( suppose any one of them you sprinkle ) that it hath any faith at all . you tell us enough hath been said to this in the disputation , i tell you that more then enough is said against it in the disprobation : yet fith you are pleased to add as little as can be in further satisfaction , i shall add as much as need be in further refutation of your folly . you say that a charitable judgement concerning this or that particular persons having faith ( for your proof now is to be de individuo ) is sufficient to admit them to baptism , and that this judgement is as due to children of christian parents i. e. every particular amongst them , that are brought to be baptized as to any at years that make profession . it seems then that the believing pa●ents personal profession of his own personal belief , which is that onely whereby we judge him to be a believer , doth prove himself to us to be a believer , not one jot more plainly , then it proves all his children ( if he hath never so many ) to be believers as well as he , and that we are bound by duty to judge all the children of a professor to have faith , as certainly as we may judge that professor himself to have it , for the same judgement of charity that is due to professed believers is ( say you ) equally , and every whit as due to such believers children . are you not ashamed of such a blind businesse as this ? what doth a mans personal visible acting , and professing of faith discover it to others that the habit of faith ( as you call it ) is in himself , no further then it discovers it to be also in his children ? did you not say but the very next page above that no judgement of science concerning a persons having faith , can be passed , till the acts of faith themselves , which are never seen in infants , are seen and examined ? which is as much as to say that when the acts are seen and examined , as they may be in men , then a judgement of science may be past on them ; do you not say that the discovery of the habit of faith to be in infants is made onely a posteriore i. e. onely by their future professings , and personal actings of it ? which is as much as to say when children come once to act faith , then it may appear and be known that faith is in them , but tell then , or in their infancy it cannot appear to be in them : do you not say it cannot be certainly presumed what children have faith , what have not , the working of the spirit being not known to us , and the spirit himself not bound to work faith in all the children of christian parents , nor barrd from working it in any children of infidels , and that there can be no conclusion made of this thing , which infants have faith , which have not ? which is as much as to say , that though it may be more certainly concluded , presumed and judged concerning men at years , who have , and who have not faith , yet the same doth not appear concerning infants in infancy ; are not these your own sayings but a few lines above ? and yet for all that have you so soon forgot your selves , as to unsay it all again in this page , where you ingage to make it appear concerning the particular children , which are brought to be baptized , that they have faith , and to determine that in charity we are bound to judge faith to be in believers infants , as much as we are bound in charity to judge it to be in the believing parents themselves , that make profession ? and such judgement is as due to one of these as to the other ? were there ever such contradictions as these committed to paper before ? but le ts us examine your reason why we are to judge faith to be in these infants , as we are to judge it to be in any that make profession , you say because the scripture hath so amply declared the good will of christ to them , which is tanta mount to any ones single profession of himself . i answer , that the scripture declares the good will of christ to little children in general , without exception , and not to one more then another , but what 's this to prove any of them to have faith ? much more what is it to the proving and making it appear that this and that particular infant hath faith ( which is the matter now in hand ) when other infants have it not ? or to prove believers infants to have it exclusively of the infants of unbelievers ? yet you say this declaration of scripture , which your selves confesse p. . declares concerning infants in general , proves this or that single infant , in contradistinction to others , to have faith as sufficiently as any ones single profession proves it concerning his single self , nay this report of scripture makes it appear ( say you most sottishly p. . ) that infants have faith , more then the particular profession of any , whom we admit to baptism , can make it appear of himself ; and yet ( to go round again ) a posteriore onely i. e. by profession of it onely the discovery of the habit of faith is made : o curious criss-crosse ! the second reason you here give , why a charitable judgement concerning their faith is due to these particular infants , and not others i. e. infants of believers , and not unbelievers is this viz. because you say we know nothing against any particular infants why they should be accepted from such a judgement . to which i answer . do you know any thing against the particular infant of an heathen ? if this be a reason upon which we are to judge any infants in particular to have faith , because we know nothing against any particular , t is a reason upon which we are in charity to judge all particular infants in the world to have faith as well as any , yea the infants of infidels as well as christians : for who knoweth any thing more against the infant of an infidell in his infanny , whereby he should be excepted from our charitable opinion of him , then he knows against the infant of a christian ? especially ( that i may to your confutation conclude against you in your own words p. . . ) since it cannot appear that one of these more then the other , hath by any actual sin barred himself , and deserved to be exempted from the general state of little infants declared in the scripture , viz. that the kingdom of heaven belongs to them . so , having run through and repelled that rout of responsives that would not be ruled by reason , i come now to enter skirmish with your scare-crow , for verily what follows is no other then a false alarum , a sound of words , a number of iackets and breeches stuft with stubble , and bombasted into the shape of men in arms to fright fools at a distance . review . we shall only present to the christian reader those horrid sins , this wretched error of the anabaptists involves men in , and so forbear to be further troublesome ; it may be the sight will make many tremble and forsake their tents , and not suffer them to be so frolick about the hole of the asp , or play with the leviathan , and walk upon the ridge of those alps , whose praecipice is so fearfull . re-review , bona verba quaeso , and not thunder without lightning . review . . it makes them deny their first faith , with their baptism , for there is but one faith ( saith the apostle ) and one baptism eph. . , re-review . aliâs it makes them first confesse , and visibly professe that one faith , and own that one baptism , which what ever they did in words , in works they denyed till now , and makes them renounce that none faith and none baptism , which they had in infancy , for if they had faith while they were infants , how can they deny it in your opinion , who deny any falling from faith ? but if they had none in infancy , then how can you deny but that they had none ? and so they deny none at all . review . . it makes them crucify christ again , for we are baptized in●o christs death and therefore but once because christ d●ed but once . re-review . it makes them crucify christ often ore and ore again indeed , i. e. in the supper where in a figure they break his body and shed his blood , an orderly fellowship , and communion in which service they are ingaged to , and enter upon , after the example of those acts . . immediately after baptism . other crucifying christ i know none among them , that is caused by their doctrine , but that of those , who after they are inlightned in it , and have tasted the good word of god , &c. do after that fall away again , and such indeed crucify to themselves the sonne of god afresh ▪ and put him to open shame heb. . . but i hope the truth among none , but reasonlesse persons shall bear the blame and be made the cause of their crucifyings of christ , who depart from it ; as for us we are crucifyed , dead and buried with christ by baptism rom. . for we are baptized into his death ; and that but once , because christ dyed but once , and yet once , because christ dyed once , and that is more then any rantized priest in christendome can say of himself , for he is not so much as once baptized at all . review . . it makes them count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , for if it be holy , what need they repeat it ? if unholy , how do they prophane it ? re-review . how far forth anabaptism properly so called , i. e , the repetition of baptism , ( without such warrantable ground as it was repeated upon act. . . ) doth ( saving the nonsense that is in that expression ) repeat the bloud of the covenant , and so count it an unholy thing , i am not so much a friend to it as to gainsay , but sure i am that a-no-baptism ( and such yours is ) doth count not only the bloud of the covenant , but also that holy ordinance of baptizing believers , which is the token of it , an unholy thing , for if it be holy , why do you neglect it ? if unholy , in so saying oh how do you prophane it ? review . . it makes the covenant of the gospel worse then the legal , this taking in all children into the visible church , the anabaptists excluding them , making them no better than turks and pagans . re-review . what again ? review . . it destroyes all the comforts that afflicted parents can have ●ver their deceased children , the grounds of them being destroyed , their right in the covenant and promises of christ. re-review . what again ? review . . it unchristens the whole church of god for many hundreds of years together , and calls in question the truth of christs promises , of being present with his church to the end , and guiding it by his spirit into all truth . re-review . what again ? what ore & ore , and ore again ? are you drawn so dry , that you are fain to fill up , to swell up your review into the magnitude of a sheet with old ends and pieces , and patches of things , that were precedent , or did these three renegadoes , fearing a storm , run from their old ranks hither to secure themselves , by crouding in amongst the rest of this rubbish stuff ? for every one of them have faced us once or twice a piece before page . . . . . neverthelesse sith i meet with them here again , i le have a word or two with every of them now . to the first i say thus , if the legal covenant did take in all children into the visible church ( as you say , & as indeed it did ) i. e. as well the children of unbelieving , as of believing jewes , neither had the one of these a strawes more right to circumcision then the other , then sith the covenant of the gospel is inlarged and communicated to both jewes and gentiles , between whom the partition wall is broken down , and they both made one . and sith now by the priests own confession it stands in the same way to be administred among the jewes and gentiles as that legal covenant did for a time among the jewes only , the priest himself makes the covenant of the gospel worse then the legal , that taking in , at least to the visible church , all children of that people to whom it extended , i. e. the jewes without any exception , without any respect to the parents being godly or ungodly , b●lievers or unbelievers : the priests contrariwise under the gospel covenant , which extends and belongs to the whole world , i. e. both jewes and gentiles , cor. . . iohn . . and to all nations as well as one mat. . . mark . . luke . . excluding now the major part , yea almost all children by their doctrine , viz. the children of unbelieving gentiles , of heathens , turks and pagans , and unbelieving jewes too , which ( for all their parents wickednesse , and unbelief ) were wont to be received into the church under the law , and this not onely from the visible church neither ( for that were more tollerable of the two , and can do them no hurt , if it be all ) but also from the kingdome of heaven , and salvation it self in their cruel charity , before they have by actuall sinne deserved to be exempted . and this i speak not as believing any infants in infancy to have right to entrance into the visible church , and fellowship thereof here on earth , though yet i believe all infants , as well as some , dying infants , and before they have deserved exemption and damnation by actual rebellion , to have according to the general declaration of scripture , right of entrance into the kingdome of heaven ; but that i may discover the unruliness of the priest , who wherein he judges others of streightning the gospel condemnes himself , who undertakes to make laws , prescribe rules , impose principles upon all men , and yet breaks his own lawes , varies from his own rules , straggles from his own principles through blindness as much as any other whom he blames for it . to the second thus , if it be so indeed ( as you told us once before it is p. . and here tell us over again that we may know your mind in it ) that to deny baptism to infants before they dy , doth ipso facto destroy all the comforts , all the hopes that any parents can possibly have of the salvation of their infants , that dy unbaptized , and all the grounds of those hopes , i. e. all those childrens right in the covenant , and promises of christ , and consequently ( this necessarily followes ) doth subject them unavoidably unto eternal damnation . then first as i told you once or twice before , so i tell you now again that 't is your selves , and not we who are the men , that say , no baptism , no salvation , for ( say you ) there is no ground for parents to hope their children can be saved , no though those parents be believers , though those children believe also themselves , and so both by birth , and by their parents faith , and their own faith too , have right ( as you say the infants of christians have ) in the covenant , and promises of christ , yet they must damn for all this , if baptism be denyed them , and if they dye without it , their parents must mourne without hope of their salvation . this is your judgement of charity concerning unbaptized infants ; even of never so believing parents , having also the habit of faith in themselves , for though parents believe , and believe their children to have faith , too and right to salvation , yet deny them baptism , and ( all the other notwithstanding ) there 's no hope of them , the parents can upon no good ground be comfor●ed concerning them , but that they are damned . t is you therefore that place such high , and mighty necessity in the bare outward dispensation of the ordinance , that are so for the ceremony , that hold that the substance doth no good without it , why else do you say that be there never so many grounds otherwise , on which to hope infants salvation , viz. their parents faith , and their own faith , and title thereby to the covenant , which , though false , simple , and rotten , yet are the grounds on which you hope some dying infants may be sav'd , though you fear the most are damn'd ( for indeed the true grounds on which to hope the salvation of all dying infants , is there non-deserving exemption by actual sin , and personal rebellion against the gospel ) why i say though there be never so much ground of hope of their salvation , do you say the grounds , whereupon they elsewise may be hoped to be saved , are all destroyed , if they be denyed to be baptized ? moreover i tell you , that you run round , like a blind horse in a mill , and contradict your selves egregiously , by holding such a high necessity of infants baptism that there 's no hope of their salvation if it be denyed them , so that unlesse you recant it , you l in the end repent it that ere you lived your selves , and led others so long in such delusion ; for mark how you mope too and fro in a mist , sometimes you say that birth of christian parents , and faith in the children so born , these give right to the covenant , and the promises of christ , and so to salvation , and the kingdome of heaven , and their right to the promises , and the kingdome , that gives them right to baptism , and to entrance into the visible church , supposing their right to salvation to be without baptism , and before it , as that which intitles them thereto , making their visible right to baptism , and the visible church to depend upon their visible right to salvation , saying they must be seen by some thing or other distinguishing them from others , who are not heirs , to be heirs belonging to the kingdome , before they be signed as such , and so you argue , making an apparent right to baptism posteriour to their right to salvation , viz. to whom the thing signified i. e. heaven appears to belong , to them consequently the sign i. e. baptism , else not , but that appears to belong to infants , therefore this , which is as much as to say , we must first look upon them , and believe them to be heirs of salvation , and upon that ground afterward baptize them , so making the right to the sign depend upon the being of the thing signified . other while again ( as here ) you turn the cat i th pan , and tell us a tale , that turns all this up side down again , and makes all their right to the covenant & promises of christ , to salvation by him , to the kingdome , which all are according to your other opinion to be antecedent to baptism , and entitling to it , so that no apparent right to the covenant , and promise , and kingdome , and salvation , no baptism , you make i say all these , on which you made baptism depend before , so necessarily dependant on baptism , so subsequent to it , so no way appearing to belong to infants without it , that no baptism no title to life ; deny them baptism , and entrance into the visible church , and they are visibly in the kingdome of the divel , there 's no hopes they can be saved , if their parents let them die without it , no grounds on which to hope it , but though believers children , and apparently enough believing themselves , and so thereby in apparent right to the covenant and promise of christ , and consequently of salvation , and all this before they may be baptized , yet they are in the visible kingdome of the divel , and do but deny baptism to them , and all those old evidences are worn out , their names blotted out of the book of life , their parents can have no hope of other then their damnation , nay all the grounds on which to hope that any good comes of them , are utterly destroyed . so then of the doctrine that you deliver this is the summe , in two round heads viz. that infants right to salvation must needs be apparent , or else they may not be baptized . secondly ( to go round again ) baptism of infants must needs be , or else there 's no apparent ground , on which to hope they can be saved . finally , i tell you i marvel in my heart , it being so that such danger comes by denying infant baptism , that parents cannot hope they can be saved , how you dare for your ears delay so long as you do , sometimes a week , sometimes a fortnight , sometimes almost a year , as the custom of england was of old to baptize but twice in the year viz. at easter and whitsontide , and do not rather baptize your infants so soon as they are born , least happily their lying in the visible kingdome of the divel longer then you need to let them , they happen to die before your good chear can be made , and all your kinsfolks come together , and then the parents be left without hope of any other , but that their children remain in the kingdom of the divel for ever : for persons live or dye visibly ( say you ) either in the visible church of christ , out of which you say also there 's no salvation , the visible entrance into which is by baptism , by which therefore unbaptized infants never entred ; or else in the visible kingdome of the divel : this is one of mr. baxters diseased disjunctions p. . for there is no more necessity then there is of sprinkling infants ( and that 's as little , as little can be ) of their being visibly in either , neither are they visibly in either the visible church of christ , or visible kingdome of the devill , till they are at years , but in medio abnegationis : you salve all that danger , which i confesse is none at all in infants dying unbaptized ( but onely that i speak according to your own principles ) by telling us that t is not the bare omission , or neglect , but the contempt of the ordinance , that damnes the persons that dye without it . i tell you again , that if this may passe for true and currant doctrine among those that hold baptism due to men and women onely , and not infants ( as i scarce know how it should , sith neglect of known duty is damnable in a lower degree , as well as contempt of it is in a higher ) yet however its false , silly , and nonsensical doctrine among you that baptize none but infants , apply it how you will : for the parents neglect , and the parents contempt of the ordinance as to his infant , is much at one i. e. neither of them damnable to the infant , unlesse you will hold up that saying again in the world , which god protested long since men should never have occasion to use any more viz. that the child shall die ( eternally ) for the fathers sin , surely the fathers contempt doth not redound any more , then his bare neglect , with any danger , or disadvantage to the infant , and as for the infant he cannot be damned for not being baptized in infancy through his own neglect , or contempt of i● , for he neither contemnes , nor neglects it . to the third of these three things that you , and i both have thrust here into one place , you in the review , and i in the re-review in order to the dispatching of them all together viz. it unchristens the whole church of god &c. i say thus , confessing that our doctrine unchristens whole christendome , which the pope hath called the church of god , but is indeed the whole world of gentiles , that hath got into the outer court , the meer outward form , and name of christianity , and hath trod down the holy city , and true worship for years , that whole world that hath for ages and generations wondered after the beast , nor is this inconsistent with the truth of christs promises of his presence , and guidance among those that are his true church , and people indeed , for howbeit he hath , according to the word , left those to their own wayes , that left and liked not his wayes , yet he ever hath , still doth , and ever will lead those into truth , that love the truth , and will be led by his spirit , when he will lead them : yea though he tied not himself to teach them , that should chuse the pope for their tutor , yet according to his promise he hath bin more or lesse with those , that observed what he commanded them in his word from the beginning , and so shall be even to the end . review . lastly it doth the devils work in the shape of angels of light , to make men renounce their baptism , and if from nero's hating the christian religion , the antient apologetist of the church did rightly gather the goodnesse of it ; we may the validity of infants baptism from the devils hatred of it : it hath ever been said of him , he will not make a bargain with any soul till it hath renounced its first bargain which was made with christ at baptism : the anabaptists are his proctors , and do it to his hand . re-review . of which desire of his to have us renounce our baptism being not a little aware , though immediately after i renounc't that rantism , i once had ( unawares to my self ) in the innocency and ignorance of my infancy , & in the room thereof received real baptism , i had one messenger from satan to buffet me , and beat me off from further proceeding in , and owning of that practise , yet through the goodness of god and that grace of his , wherein i still stand , i was so far from being removed , that i was much more settled , strengthned , and stablisht in the present truth , wherein i walk , and i trust shall walk in , unto the end , unlesse i receive more evidence to the contrary , then ever i have done from any writings , or any discourses of any , that ever i met wi●h of what principle , or profession soever : which messenger ( whose name was william everard after the flesh , but the name that the father had given him was chamberlin ( as he said ) for he lived in the secret chambers of the most high ) though he came to my house , pretending that he was immediately sent from god , with a message to me in particular viz. to renounce that practice of baptizing , which himself had sometimes walkt in also , but now relinquisht , did to my self , and some others after half a dayes most serious observation of his speeches , strange extasies , and uncouth deportment , by many prodigious passages , blasphemous pratings , and ( as by experience we then proved them ) flatly false pretences to what he had not , and most presumptuous , yet successeless , undertakings and frivolous fopperies ( of which i am willing at any time , but not capable under a hours time , to give fuller account to any that shall desire it ) discover himself to be one of the archangels of darknesse , which the devil now sends forth a new in the shape of angels of light , and is now no lesse apparently i think to all that know him , and where he is . and howbeit , it hath bin more then once , but once especially , as i have hinted to the reader in a shrewd shake of sicknesse , that befel me above a twelve moneth since to the great retarding of this work , reported that i was shaken sheer out of my mind , and judgement concerning this way and baptism , so as to have recanted and renounced it , yet i call my god to witnesse , to whom also i give thanks for his mercy toward me in that particular , that partly by the more then ordinary advantages i then had , through my sequestration from all other occasions , to seek the lord , to search and try my wayes , and turn again unto him , partly by the more then ordinary ingagements that were then upon me so to do , and that seriously and sincerely , through my dayly expectation to be clapt up in clods of earth , till the great day of acccounts , i have bin much more sweetly satisfied since then concerning the truth of this way , then ever i was in all my life before , neither did i then find any cause to repent me of coming to christ in it , as neither shall any , that renouncing your rantism do rightly receive it , so they continue to walk uprightly in it to the end : but this i must confesse , i found good cause to repent of it that i had not honoured it so much as i might have done since i ownd it , nor walked so profitably , serviceably , blamelesly , holily , and worthily in it , nor so suitably to so holy and worthy a way as it is in it self , not withstanding the account of basensse and foolishness that it hath in the world , cor. . . so that ever since that forenamed sifting i had from satan , by the mouth of that his agent , by whom he solicited me to forgo my baptism , i side with you in this , viz. that t is the devils worke in the shape of an angell of light to make men renounce their baptism , and though i am somewhat otherwise opinioned about the divels affection to infants baptism , then you are , for i think if he hate it , t is as he hates holy water , or any other of his own inventions , wherby he hath juggled away the truth , and imitated christs ordinances out of doors , yet i am fully of your mind that he so hates the true baptism , i mean the baptizing of professed believers , from whence i gather the goodnesse , and validity of it against him , that it is most of the business about which he is at work in the shape of an angel of light in these daies , wherein his time growes short , and his old kingdome begins to fail him by means of the true baptism , to erect to himself a new kingdome , and in order thereunto to make men renounce that baptism , as knowing that he cannot strike a downright bargain with a soul to become fully his , as the high notionists , and spiritual sensualists of these times do , till it hath renounced its first bargain , made with christ in baptism , not what was made with christ at infant rantism , for infants are not capable per se to bargain with christ , and how they do it per alios i do not see , sith such as say they do it for them , were never appointed by them so to do , nor by christ neither , that i know of , nor do i remember any bargain to own christ and not be ashamed of him that either i , or others for me made with christ on that day wherein i was sprinkled , no though , as they tell me , in token thereof , that i might never forget it , i was signed with the sign of the crosse : this work of diswading men from owning baptism as long as he can , and perswading them to disown it when they have it , though the devil be at one end of it , yet dares be not be seen in it himself , but acts all by his emissaries ; the anti-baptists are his proctors , and do it to his hand , the rantizer and the ranter , the sprinkling priest on the one hand , the sparkling prophet on the other , between these two he does , or rather undoes what he can : in ●●der to prevention of whose design , i shall as the lord lends leave , say something to them both , before this work go out of my hands , though it hang so much the longer in them . review . they will peradventure wave the fury of some of these blowes by denying their name , by saying they do not rebaptize , but baptize those , that were not baptized before , whose baptism is null : but we should renounce our baptism too if we should yield them that plea , till they have proved it null by better arguments , then any yet ever urged by them , they shall be denyed that evasion : and one would think they ought to be sure of their footing , and not walk upon slippery ground , for no better is their proof , where the fall is into hell . if thou art warned , thou wilt be armed against them , they will never encounter , where they find this preparation , if thou wilt not be warned , we have delivered our own soules . re-review . having spent all your other ammunition , and vented your verdict to the bottom , you here once for all discharge your great warning piece , and roar us all at once down into hell , what else mean you by this clause , where the fall is into hell ? is the error on which hand soever it lies , yours or ours , so damnable in the question about the true subject , and the true form and administration of baptism , that the opposite parties to the truth herein must needs damn without more adoe ? i trow not in case they act through ignorance altogether invincible in the very integrity of their hearts : but if the truths antagonists in this point , whether it be you or we , either see and see not , or may see and will not , or can see and dare not , or find the footing and ground they go upon to be unsure , and slippery , the proofs they practise from to be poor , pedling , and paltry , as god knowes yours are , if you do not , and yet for fear and shame of men , find it not , then the fall may chance to prove a desperate one indeed , and therefore sirs see ye to it , see that ye see to it , for ye are a generation that in these daies of discovery are seen more into then you are aware of , and may see much more then you do , if you will. and they that say it is so dangerous to be out in the question disputed , that the error , on which side soever , reaches , and leads them that follow it to the end , as farre as hell , had need be more sure of their hand , then you can be in your cause , from the most serious search of scripture , that they are in the right , and if they find that they are out to return in time . or do you make the game in this case , and question between us and you to go thus , viz. that if it chance to appear hereafter that we are out in the point of baptism , then we must to hell without remedy , but if the error prove or fall out to be on your side , it shall be so venial , and tollerable a trangression , that you may go to heaven for all that ? verily one would think it were to run thus in the thoughts of you , clergy men , of some of you at least , for some are more moderate towards us and our tenet then other some , and some of you at sometimes more moderate then your selves at other times ; amongst whom bitter mr. baxter is one who though he be far more immodest in his discoursings of our dipping , then we are in our dispensings of it to any ( in which respect i confesse i count him as keen to the full as he confesses himself to be ) and one that persues the controversie which more crabbidness then it calls for , for if it be so small a matter as he makes on t , yet however he is so modest about it , that he can scarce afford the anabaptists the term of heretiques , much les●e of damnable heretiques as most of you do , yea , he speaks so diminutive●y , and apologetically of our supposed error , p. . . ( but that ( to go round again ) he is as hyperbollicall , and egregious in accusing it , page . . where he loads us , who dissent from him in it well nigh as low as hell ) viz. that this controversie considered in it self is of lesse moment then many imagine , and a point that god laies not so great a stresse on as many do . neverthelesse some of you are ●am in vestris talpae , in alienis linces , so eagle eied a broad , and bleared eyed at home , that if your infant-sprinkling be made appear to be the error ( as more then one of you that persist in it deny it not to be ) o how it s excused , extenuated , exempted from so much as guiltifying , much more from damnifying hell deep its dispensers ? though it had been better it never had been brought in , and that baptisme never had been changed , yet since t is now the present custome , and authority requires it , there 's not so much evil in it but it were better stand , then the church fall a contending about it . but while our dipping is supposed to be the error , t is an error of so dangerous concernment , that finally to stand in it , is to fall flatly into the pit of hell : and little better then thus it is ( for ought i see ) with you ashford disputants , if we compare this place with page . of your pamphlet ; yet we take it the more kindly from you however , since t is your watch word to us , whether we be warned from baptizing of believers by it yea or no : if we be not warned , you say true you have deliuered your own selves , yet ( one good turn for another ) i warn you again , that you have delivered your selves hitherto more against the truth of god , then from the wrath of god , unlesse you warn more wisely , and deliver your selves more divinely for the future . you tell us peradventure we will evade the fury of some of your blowes by denying our name , you may well say the fury of your blowes , for the very title of anabaptists is a bang , wherewith in your wrath , and fury you wound many honest men , and bast them till they stink again in the nostrils of their neighbours for your sakes ; whereby you basify , and prate them out as odious ones to the world , when you cannot prove them erroneous by the word : you need not say peradventure , nay you may be sure on t , that wee l deny though not our own name , yet that nick name anabaptists , which you are pleased improperly ( not to say impiously ) to impose upon us , though we bear with your illiterateness in so doing , for i trust we shall not more say , then sufficiently shew , that we do not re-baptize , but onely baptize those which never were baptized before , and whose baptism , which you say they had in infancy , is null , i. e. nothing , and yet not nothing , but a new thing rather , another baptism , another thing then baptism , which is neither the baptism of christ , nor indeed any true baptism at all . let us both pawn our baptismes upon it , ours , which you call nothing but anabaptism , yours , which we call nothing but rantism : if we do not make it good that your baptism is no baptism , at least not that , which christ instituted , then we shall ingage not onely to yield up that our plea , but to renounce our baptism also , but if we do it , and you never disprove it , then we shall expect it answerably from you , that you both yield up that your plea , and renounce your rantism also ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . anti-rantism , or christ'ndom vnchristn'd , in an appendix added about sprinkling wherein the shallownesse of that dispensation is shewed to be such , that it can neither properly , nor possibly without perverture be called baptism . having razed the rotten basis of your babism , i come now to reckon with your rantism , and to examine whether our manner of baptizing , which is by dipping , or yours , which is only by sprinkling , is the baptism which was instituted by christ , according to that small hint you give me , which is no other then a bare , single , simple denyal of your baptism to be null ; for no lesse then that is the next fault wherewith we charge it : as for your selves , as if you were unwilling to have it sifted , as i verily believe , and have sufficiently experienced that you are , you slide so silently by this question , which is as requisite to be discussed , and duely understood as the other , that howbeit you are not a little concerned for the securing of your baptism , to back it in this particular also , specially since you confesse that you must give it up , if our plea against the form of it prove valid , yet you afford not so much as one wea-bit of an argument , whereby to disprove our form of baptizing , nor yet to prove the truth of your own , save only your homely reply to our plea , viz. we should renounce our baptism too if we should yield them that plea : which words of yours in a sillogistical form run thus , viz. if we yield them their plea we must renounce our baptism . but we are resolved we will not renounce our baptism . ergo we will not yield them their plea. thus you are resolved to hold the conclusion : neverthelesse such shamefull tergiversation , and utter loathness to put your selves upon tryal by the word i have ever found amongst you in this point , that how justly mr. baxter complains of mr. tombs for refusing to dispute it publiquely p. . i know not , but i am sure not more justly then i have occasion to cry out of your unworthy waywardnesse in this case : for though at the disputation at ashford i did in my position ( some , but not half the sum of which you set down in your account ) positively declare my exception against two things in that , which you call your baptism , viz. - first the false subject . secondly the false manner of administration , together with my earnest desires to have satisfaction from you concerning the latter also , as in respect of which i proclaimed it null , as well as in respect of the former , yet you drilled away all the time about the first without either giving out a warrant then , or granting us your presence another day , wherein to give your warrant for the second . in like manner at the publike dispute , which was at folstone before many hundreds of people , where there was one , if not more , of my opponents at ashford , the opponents part being put upon me , much more against my expecta●ion then desire , i told that c●assis of clergy men , who were there , that t was most proper to direct my dispute to their practise , which sith it was the rantizing , and not the baptizing of infants , i would prove that their sprinkling of infants was not lawful ; but i could at no hand be permitted to proceed in such a way , or to come neer their copy hold in that point , viz. their false form of dispensing , though i promised to abide a whole week among them , rather than they should not have discourse enough about the subject ; at last i obtained with much adoe a division of the question into two , viz. . whether infants were the true subject ? . whether sprinkling were the true manner of baptizing ? and a solemn engagement from them , that if so be i would begin upon the first , there should be a discourse after it upon the other . but as i forewarned the people , and that before these mens own faces , that it would be at first , viz. that they would evade all controversie about that , if it were possible , even so it fell out indeed at last ; for after some two hours , or little more , though it were well-nigh a winters day yet to night , it was on their parts so uncessantly urged , that the disputation might cease , and the people for that time be dismissed , that the divel is blind if he did not see that day , that those who sided with him , unseen , against the truth , did judge that there was discourse too much , though but a little , about the subject of baptism , and enough , though none at all , about the form . but i let passe this , and come to prove the point now in hand , which is this , that dipping or overwhelming in water , and not sprinkling , is the only true form , or manner wherein baptism is to be dispensed , and without which it is either properly no baptism , or at least none of that baptism which is required in the word and may be owned as the ordinance of christ. this is most plain , and in a most plain way i desire to prove it : and first from the signification of the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is ever used in the originall , as that whereby this ordinance is expressed , and whence it derives that denomination of baptism , the proper plain english of which is to overwhelm , or cover with water , to plunge over head and ears , to put under the water , to dipp , douze or drown in the water . : and it is the derivative of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is tingo , quod fit immergendo , to dipp in that manner , as they do that dy cloth and colours , which is by that total submersion of things in the liquor , as all men know they do that dy , and not by sprinkling here and there a drop of water on them . thus i say the word baptize signifies , and not to sprinkle ; and therefore that i may rouze all those people into a remembrance of this matter , whose priests deceive them , and draw them to dream that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies both to dipp , & to sprinkle , which some , whether it be of that ignorance of the truth that cleaves , and accrues to the common sort of priests , through their taking things upon trust , and tradition one from another without tryal , or of meer malice making them willfully to hide the truth after they have received the knowledge of it , i know not , god knowes , but some i say stick not still as much as they can to make their people believe it ; but to awaken such to some attention to the heterodoxness of their priests , as well as all waies to the orthodoxness of them , i here summon all the priests in christendome out of either stephanus , or scapula , the two greek lexicons that are in so great request , and of such ordinary use among you , and such friends to your selves , as you may see by the bitter invectives of both of them against us as anabaptists , as a diobolicall sect , and therefore would favour your cause as far as in conscience they could , to shew the contrary to what i here have said , viz. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eiher doth not signify a totall dipping of the immedi●te subject that is denominated baptized , or dipped by it , or that it ever signified such a thing as sprinkling at all . yea the word that signifies to sprinkle is another word , viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is ever used in scripture by the spirit , when he speaks of such a thing as sprinkling : yea t is used three times in one chapter , viz. heb. . . . . and is all along englished by sprinkling , neither is there any one place of scripture wherein the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendered to baptize , or used to signify baptizing , neither is there one scripture wherein the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred sprinkling , or used to signify such a thing as sprinkling , not is there any reason why it should be so rendred , specially if you consider secondly , the non identity , and deep diversity that is between these two actions , viz. sprinkling , and baptizing [ anglicè dipping ] by which , as by a second argument , its most plain that sprinkling is not only not the baptism of christ , but in truth no baptism at all , and so consequently that he is properly no-anabaptist , who baptizeth them that were but sprinkled , and he ano-baptist that doth but sprinkle . rantist . our sprinkling is baptizing as well as your dipping , and these two are one say you what you will. baptist. i tell you , and you will see it at last , that as christ hath but one water baptism , and as he hath by appointment but one subject for that one baptism , and not two kinds of subjects , as you dream , viz. a believer only , and not both a believer and a believers seed , so he hath but one true way , and essential form , wherin that one baptism is to be dispensed , and that is baptizing [ anglicè dipping ] and not two waies , forms or dispensations of it specifically , and essentially distinct from each other , so that they are not so much as in speciall kind the same but sprinkling and baptizing [ alias dipping ] are truly two waies , two forms , two actions , two kinds of actions , ●o really different in their essentials , so specifically diversified in their nature , as actions , that even homo and brutum , which he is a brute that will say are all one and the same , do not differ more essentially in praedicamento substantiae then sprinkling and baptizing [ alias dipping ] do differ in the praedicament of action : and therefore they cannot be called one and the same . t is true , all things that are , are the same in general i. e. genere remoto , for ens dividitur in omnia : so that all things that are , are equally denominated entia i. e. things that are , so a man and a beast in genere proximo they are both animals , yet are they not so all one as that the one may be universally understood by the naming of the other , nor the one denominated by the other , so as to say a man is a beast , and a beast is a man , they are one in genere , two in specie ; and the like may be said of dipping and sprinkling , which are two dividing members of one and the same general ( as homo and brutum also are ) and as specifically distinct , they are in genere remoto both actions , yea they are in genere proximo both wettings with water , yet are they not one kind of action , or wetting in specie nor all one , so as the one may be universally used , and done instead of the other , and yet the business be as well done , or both done , and yet but one and the same thing done , but one and the same word of command obeyed in so doing ; nor so as that the one may be as well understood as the other , when ei●her of them is exprest , nor so as to be denominated properly by each other , nor so as that the one is the other ; but all actions that are so specifically the same as sprinkling and baptizing [ aliàs dipping ] are made to be with you are so , as that they may be indifferently , promiscuously , universally used , and done one in the room of the other , and yet no other then the self same thing in specie is done still , as much as if we had used or performed the other ; yea so as they may be properly denominated one by the other , so as that in specie one is the other , so as that in speech sense and signification , they are so alike , that it matters not which term you use , or which of the two you speak by , for the sense will still remain the same , and stand perfect sound and entire , and the sentence have no non-sence at all in it notwithstand : e. g. smiting and striking , or to smite and strike , to be smitten and stricken are all one , and may be denominated one of the other , so as that one is the other , and though here are two terms , yet but one thing is exprest thereby , and the sentence you place them in may be without non-sense , and as entirely the same as before , if you use one of them in the room of the other ; as he mas stricken , or he was smitten are the same in sense : yea universally in all speech where you may use the word smite , you may use the wo●d strike , and both the sense and matter signified thereby will still be the same : but now so it is not between sprinkling and baptizing , t is so indeed be●ween baptizing and dipping , baptizing and overwhelming with water , baptizing and putting under water , baptizing and dousing , or plunging ore head , these are all one they all denote the very same kind of action , the very same kind of wetting with water ▪ and though here be a difference in terms , yet t is in word onely not in deed , the distinction is onely nominall , not real , not specifical , not essentially formal , for take any sentence of scripture that hath ( speaking of water baptism ) the word baptized in it , and you shall find any of the other terms in sence coincident with it , and consistent properly in the room of it in speech and signification : as mark. . , t is said of the people they were baptized of iohn in iordan confessing their sins , it may as properly be said they were overwhelmed , dipped , plunged ore head , put under water by iohn in iordan , but t is scarce propriety of speech to say they were sp●inkled of iohn in iordan . rantist . no ? do we not in common loquution say the same , while we say sprinkled in a font , or in a bason ? baptist. i confess in common loquution we speak so ( as brevitatis gratiâ we do improperly many times in other cases ) yet is it scarce so proper , as to say sprinkled with water out of a font or bason : but however mark . . t is said of christ that he was baptized of iohn a into iordan , now i am sure you may say sensibly enough he was dipped , plunged of iohn into iordan , but it cannot be said without most palpable non-sense , he was sprinkled of iohn into iordan : therefore certainly the form of christs own baptism , then which we cannot have better president for ours , was dipping ( as ours is ) and not such a simple sort of sprinkling as is still in use among your selves ; in the doing of which you do not onely ( as is evident by the premisses ) another thing then that which was dispenst to christ , and enjoined by christ to be dispensed , but indeed , as toward the fulfilling his command in that ordinance , you do plainly nothing at all that you shall be accepted in for your labour , for in vain you practise another thing , as in obedience to him , neglecting what he hath required , which he never required at your hands : and such is that sprinkling , which by custome in the corruption of the times came superstitiously to bear the name of baptizing , and then by little and little , till it had wholly worn it out of the world , to be practised , and passe for currant instead out , and this i will give you some account of too , sith i have given you the hint out , for in cyprians time people being overgrown with such a superstition , as because baptism was the token to them of remission of their sinnes , therefore they would commonly after conversion delay their submission to that dispensation till toward their latter end , as neer as they could ghesse it approaching on them , that they might thereby have evidence of remission of all their sinnes at once , fearing , if they should be baptized before , least they should sinne again , and so spoil all the comfort they received by baptism , ( so far were persons from posting ( as they do now a daies ) to dispense baptism in infancy to their infants , that they at years did too much delay their own ) hereupon it came to passe not seldome , that the procrastinators of baptism were taken with sicknesse on a sudden , and confined to their beds unawares , before they could be baptized , in which case not knowing how to be baptized in that manner , wherein t was usually dispensed i. e. by dipping in places of much water , and yet unwilling withall to dye without it , they sent to cyprian , who was the oracle of his time , to be resolved , whether in such a pressing case as this was , wherein they were as unwilling to die without baptism , as uncapable to be baptized as they should be , it might not as well serve the turn , and be counted sufficient baptism to have a little water applied to them , or sprinkled upon them in their beds ? to this the good man being loath to leave poor sick soules upon the wrack , whom he saw somewhat affraid to die unbaptized , returnes his opinion to this purpose viz. that in this case , wherein without manifest hazzard of the sick persons life it could not be so well done as it should , it should be done as well as it could , and that they might have some application of the element to them in their beds , which if they died at that time should passe for currant , and be counted lawful baptism : neverthelesse ( saith he himself ) if they happen to be restored to health again , let them be had to the river , and there be dipped : he that doubts of this may read it in cyprians own epistle to 〈◊〉 , who wrote to him about the case . so that we see he judged it fit to be done ore again , to be done better , to be done indeed if they lived , but if they then died , he allowed it to be called baptism ( though it was none ) in favour to the weak , rather then otherwise . and here now comes in the first rise of your rantism , and no small occasion i believe ( if it were before begun ) of the growth of your babism also , for when the needle was once so clearly entred , how easily would the thred follow after ? when it had once past through the mouth of a man so reverend , and respected in his generation ( as cyprian was ) that it was baptism enough to be sprinkled onely in such a case , how easily might not onely every tender person that is loath to dipp the foot in cold water , but even every person also , that will do no more then needs must against the will of the flesh , mistake it so far as to make it serve the turn in every case ? and when such an easie kind of baptism as tha● was , was grown into use , that could be no more dangerous to infants then to men , how willingly would all persons ( specially those of that gang that grew apace a little after , ( for cyprian himself , and bishops more gave ground for it , when in a certain councel they gave this ground for infant baptism viz. because , so farre as lies in us , no soul is to be destroyed ) who held baptism in such necessity as to say it saved ex opero operatio ) how willingly i say would they imbrace such an easie , and such a necessary baptism , not onely for themselves , but for their infants also ? but to return ( i pray pardon this digression ) this sprinkling which you use is not baptism , or at least not the baptism of christ ( cypriano iudice ) let cyprian judge of it , for if it were , he would not have required persons to be baptized after it , in case conveniently they could . rantist . miscarriage in the manner of baptism doth not nullify the matter it self , neither doth an error in meer circumstance annihillate the substance of the ordinance , so but that its baptism , and stands christs ordinance still . baptist. true miscarriage in the meer manner of doing any thing doth not null that thing , if that very thing be done indeed , which we wot of , though error in bare circumstance ( and such it seems you confesse your retained rantism to be ) is too abominable to persist in , but miscarriage in the matter of a thing , and such grosse miscarriage as makes it another matter , or thing ( and such is that , when not the same that 's reckoned on , but another thing formally , specifically , essentially distinct from it , is done instead of ir ) then that 's another matter i trow , is it not ? and such as this , is your miscarriage in the matter we mean i. e. your rantism wherein besides your foul faultering in materia circa quam i. e. the petty party about which you busie your selves in that dispensation , for that being not a believer discipled by your teaching ( as the subject of baptism ought to be according to mat. . . . ) but an untaught non-believing infant , doth clearly null it , in case you did baptize , from the name of the ordinance of christ , that onely being his ordinance that is ordained by him , who never ordained baptism to be dispenst to other , then such as are disciples so made by mens teachings ; besides ( i say ) your foul faultering in the subjects , you dispense to , t is another thing then baptism you dispense to them . rantist . what then dipping belike is so necessary , and essential in baptism , that baptism is no baptism if it be done in another form , or if it be done by sprinkling . baptist. no not so , for baptism is baptism stil , let it be done in what form soever , neverthelesse what is not baptism , is not ; and such is that sprinkling , which you call baptism , for it is not thing you call it ; for if it were baptizing that you used , whether it were thus or thus , it mattered not , because that thing that 's properly stiled baptism is still dispensed , yea though your subject be so false , as to barre it , even then , from bearing the name of the baptism of christ yet , even then , might it bear the name of baptism , but sith it is not that which christ at first instituted , but which men have since invented in stead thereof , notwithstanding its being done of old among the clergy , yet is it no other then an old nothing . rantist . 〈◊〉 practise hath born the name of baptism before you were born , among wise 〈◊〉 then your selves for ages and generations together , and must it now be dis - 〈◊〉 , and digraded from that title it hath been denominated by so long , and cease to bear its own name ? baptist. it s own name ? no , sprinkling is sprinkling still , and so it ever will be , where it s used , but it must cease for ever from bearing the name of baptism , because baptism it never was : if your administration hath indeed the form of baptism then baptism it is , but then it can be called spirinkling no more , but if it have the form of sprinkling then sprinkling it is , and can be called baptism no more , for these two , though the materia quâ et circa quam i. e. both the element which you use , and the subject , to which you use that element , be never so the same , yet are two such specifically and formally different actions and dispensations , as do not ponere , but tollere se invicem , and can in no wise meet in the same subject at the same time , so as that by the dispensing of either of the two , it may be denominated indifferently ( i mean properly ) by either , for he that is baptized cannot be said thereby to be sprinkled , and likewise he that is but sprinkled cannot be said there upon onely to be baptized , for these two actions of sprinkling , and baptizing , having two different formes , they cannot possibly be properly called the same . rantist . then it seems the different form wherein we do things , makes the thing so done so to differ , that they may not admit of one and the same denomination : and by this reason , sith there are several and various formes , wherein you dispence your dipping to persons , for happily you dipp them sometimes forward , somtimes backward , sometimes sidewaies , these various waies of dispensing cannot all be called by that one name of dipping . baptist. by forms i mean not the accidentall but the essential formes of things , which whensoever they are two , those things , whose forms they are , cannot be one , for unius rei est unica tantum forma i. e. essentialis , of one thing there can be but one essentiaell form , there may be more accidentall , for the essential form is that quae dat esse rei , which gives every thing to be what it is , and distinguishes it so exactly from every thing else , that its uncapable thereby to be at that time another thing , and another thing of another essential form uncapable utterly to be that : now t is the very essential form , wherein sprinkling and baptizing [ alias dipping ] do differ for the essential form of that action of baptizing [ anglicè dipping ] of persons is the putting of them under water , a covering them with water , or plunging them over head in water , but the essential form of your sprinkling is only the foisting of a litle water upon their foreheads , for it is not so much as a total sprinkling you use neither . in a word baptizing properly is the application of the whole subject to the whole element of water collectim , here or there gatherd together , so as to overwhelm him in it , but sprinkling properly is quite another thing , viz. the application of a little water , or some liquid element to the subject guttatim , i. e : by dropps or small portions only , so that these two , viz. your sprinkling and true baptism are no more one thing , then the hurling of a man down some praecipice , or steep place upon spikes , that let out his heart blood , and the pricking of him till he bleed only with a pin , which in general are both a shedding of blood , as our two parrallels are both a wetting with water , but in special not the killing of a man , as neither are the other both baptizing : so that there may be many ways and meanes of doing a thing , and the thing be but one still if it have essentially but one form , but where there be many essential forms , there are ever as many several things as those are . a man may ride many waies , viz. east , west , &c. many manner of waies , viz. backward , forward , apace or slowly &c. and yet all this is riding still , while the man moves to and fro on horse back , because the very formality of that action of riding consists in being carried by another , but while he moves upon his own legges up and down , you cannot at that time denominate him riding . in like manner a man may be baptized [ anglice dipped ] or put under the water many manner of waies , viz. forward , backward , sideway , toward the right hand or left , quickly , slowly , and yet all this while he is baptized , if put under , because the essential form of baptism , viz. dipping in water is to be found in all these waies ; but if he have two or three drops of water only flerted upon his face , he is no more truly baptized then if you fillip him with a wet finger , for here is differentia essentialis , the very formallity of baptism is absent . if accidentalls onely , and meer accessaries be wanting unto baptism , specially such superfluities as were in use about the popish rantism , as chris● , salt , spittle , crossing , gossips , fonts , basons , cakes , and wine , and other silly solemnities , there may be good baptism without these , but abstract the absolutely necessaries , i. e. two things , or but either of them , which yet are both wanting among you , and as blind as the priest-hood is now , yet my life for his he shall behold it once , and own it too , that his businesse is not only not the baptism of christ , but truly not any baptism at all . these two are first the true subject , to whom christ appointed baptism to be dispensed , which who it is , and who it is not ( and how it is but one , for there is but one baptism , and not two ) viz. believing abrahams spiritual seed , and not a believing , nor unbelieving gentiles fleshly seed , i. e. all that quoad nos believe as abraham did , and not all that ever shall to all generations , for such are the seed as well as the immediate , descend naturally from the loines of such as do believe with abraham , i have abundantly shewed above , nor is it my businesse here . secondly , the true form in which christ appointed baptism to be dispensed to believers discipled by us , which what it is you cannot be so ignorant as your practise proclaimes you to be , for i dare say it is not rantism , and you dare not deny , but that it is baptism : both these are universally wanting , as i have proved , to your practise , yet if but either only were wanting it were null enough : for first , it is most certain that a mistake in the subject , to whom any thing is appointed to be done , doth so nullify that thing so appointed , that it can neither be said to be done as t was apponted , no nor yet that the thing appointed is done at all , e. g. the parliament commanded men to take , or in case of their resistance to slay those rebells that were routed at worcester , but should he have been taken by them as obeying their command , that should in persuance thereof have beaten and killed other men , who were never there , nor at all ingaged in the kings cause ? they ordered a thousand pound to him that should bring in charles stewart , should he have been rewarded as a doer of their will in that work that should have brought in another man in his stead ? christ hath ordained , and so consequently t is his ordinance that persons shal be first taught by us and then baptized , is it therefore his ordinance to baptize them who were never taught ? the papists have a trick to baptize ( as they call it , for they do but rantize as you do ) bells as well as babes , but if they did truly baptize their bells , were it the ordinance of christ ? you say no ; because bells are a wrong subject , which christ never appointed baptism to be dispensed to : the very same say we of your babies : a mistake therefore in the subject makes a nullity in the service , i. e. denies it to be any ordinance of christ at all . secondly , t is most certain that mistake in the matter ordained , so as to make another matter of it , or do distinctly some other thing instead of it , makes all that is done of no effect : quod fieri non debuit factum valet holds onely where the errour is in accidentals , and meerly circumstantialls , and not in the very substance of the thing it self : if men do one thing on their own heads instead of another that god bidds , they may have pardon in case they crie him mercy , but very little thank from him for their paines : neither is he accounred , much lesse accepted as doing the ordinance of god , that doth not so much rhe same things that he ordained otherwise , but other things then he hath ordained : when the parliament ordained , and gave commission to have canterburies head cut off , those synodians , who also themselves waited to have his kingdome , would hardly have counted that ordinance performed had the trustees cut off his little finger only , and let him go . nor would the law little lesse then hang that executioner , that having strict charge to hang one man , lets him escape , and in satisfaction falls a whipping of an other : the case is yours , who being commanded to teach persons , and then baptize them , and to keep the commands of christ without spot till his appearing , do in his absence let go the making and baptizing disciples , and in place thereof only rantize and rantize only little infants too : in doing which , sith ye do not the thing christ appoints , ye had as good do nothing . a certain man had two sonnes , and he said to them both , go work to day in my vineyard , one said flatly he would not , but afterwards repented him and went , the other said he would , yet did not , but found himself work of his own to do : the first did the will of his father ; so i say that the rebellious ranter repenting and being baptized , for else indeed heu quam procul ? how farre is he from it as now he stands , whilst he saies plainly he will have no baptism ? shall enter into the kingdome of god , before the responding rantizer resolving wilfully to persevere in his error , under a pretence of willingnesse to obey the truth , and refusing to return , when he is convinced of it . rantist . but the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which you so much stand upon , signifies though not to sprinkle ; yet not onely to dip and overwhelm in water , but also to wash , and so t is rendred in the lexicons , where lavo , abluo , are set down as at least the remote signification of it , and therefore though sprinkling be not dipping , yet t is a kind of washing , or wetting , and so may be called baptizing , as well as that , and in aliquo sensu in some sense t is one and the same with that , for quae conveniunt in aliquo tertio sunt idem , dipping and sprinkling meet both in the word washing , whch is a secondary signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so may well enough both be stiled baptizing . baptist. no such matter sirs , no not by any means in the world . for first your rule of two things being the same that agree in a third , holds first onely and properly quoad mensuram in matter of measure , as two pieces of cloth that square every way both with one ell are the same i. e. in length , breadth , &c. not necessarily any way else . secondly ; quoad rem it holds in the things themselves in some case and sense , i. e. if the ●ight respect be had to that same third thing , in which they agree ; which third is no other then that which stands the genus , in reference to them both , as homo et brutum agree both in the general name of animal , but this se●●es not your turn here at all , where you are to prove sprinkling and baptizing [ alias dipping ] to be all one , not in general , for so many things may meet in one , that are as different as things can be , for omnia corpora sunt substantia , yea all things are one , for omnia sunt entia , but in special , so that the one is in specie the same with the other , but this cannot be said of dipping and sprinkling , for though they are both wettings with water , yet are they not both baptizings , for baptizing is not the genus in respect to them i. e. the generall of which dipping and sprinkling are the special dividing members , but baptizing it self , or dipping , for these two are adequate each to other , is the member opposite to sprinkling , and and specifically different from it , under the general word wetting with water : so that still these are not the same so as that sprinkling can possibly be called baptizing . secondly if the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , do signifie to wash any other way then by dipping , yet that 's not the direct , immediate , primary signification of it , for that is to dip or plung , as you see in the lexicon , but at the best it is but indirectly , collaterally , by the by , improperly and remotely that it so signifies ; and i ask whether when we try any matter by the signification of the word , as t is in the original , we shall go to the direct , original , prime and proper , or to the the occasional , remote , indirect , and improper signification to be tried by ? your practise it seems is built onely upon the indirect , improper , remote acceptations of the word , and therefore is at best onely an uncouth , indirect , improper , and farre fetcht practise . thirdly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies washing but it is a real total washing onely , such a washing as is by dipping plunging , and swilling the subject in water , and that signification is yet many miles off from sprinkling : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies lavo , abluo i. e. to rinse , to wash away , to clense , which things are done onely , or at least most effectually immergendo , by putting things in water , and swilling them therein : so that still such a washing as baptism is , sprinkling is not , and so you are never the nearer for all this . yea fourthly , neither do baptizing and sprinkling meet one another so much as in that third word washing , so that they may be both properly predicated by it , though in that more general word wetting they do : for howbeit baptism is truly called a washing heb. . . and your bodies washed in pure water , yet ne in aliquo sensu can sprinkling be truely so called unlese it be in insano sensu alias , non-sensaliter , for in sano sensu it cannot : yea i appeal to all men to recollect to their remembrance , whether they ever saw any thing truly washt in the way of sprinkling , especially whether ever they saw any one wash things so well as they must do , who are said lauare , abluere , to rinse , to clense , which are the senses , in which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies to wash , in such a sleight way of wetting them , as is made by such a sprinkling onely as you use ? rantist . the pharises mat. . . held the washing of hands , cups , pots , brazen vessels , beds and tables , and their washings are called baptisms , and 〈◊〉 can you conceive they did any more then sprinkle water up on them ? baptist. yea surely sirs , why not ? they swilled , and rinsed , and clensed , and totally wetted them with water , or else i am sure they could never be said properly to baptize ; but by the spirit , whoever uses that word when he speaks of sprinkling , they would certainly be said to rantize them : besides shew me any that use to wash , whether it be hands , face , dishes , spoones , trenchers , pots , cups , clothes , brazen vessels , or beds either , when they are by any ishue defiled , and i le venter to vent this verdict on such that they are but sluts , and slovens if they do but sprinkle them . rantist . there may he washings though , and dippings too , but what needs such a totall dipping as you use ? what command can you have in all the word for such a mad●● manner of administration , that surely is more then needs : a man may love his house well enough , and yet not ride on top on 't , and so many persons like the way of dipping , and washing in the dispensation , we now talk of , yea and practise it too , and yet judge it needlesse to run persons into rivers , and ponds , and there plunge them quite over head and ears . baptist. to make good this doctrine of totall dipping against such as dippe onely secundum partem , as well as those that ( in part also ) do but sprinkle , i argue as followes . secondly , from the practise of the primitive times , wherein it is most evident they were totally baptized , or dipped , and that they were so appears plainly . first , by the scripture formes of speech , and expressions used about that matter , which import and betoken no lesse , viz. . if there were no other evidence the very denomination it self of baptized●hat ●hat is given shewes it , which in propriety of speech , and according to the prime and native signification of the word is as much as totally dipped , or wholly overwhelmed , and covered with water , put under water , which they could not possibly in common sense , and reason be said properly to be , if they were but a little wet about the eye-browes only , as those are to whom you dispense , handling them as if you were affraid too much to wet them : surely it would not have been said baptized ▪ much lesse baptized in iordan , least of all baptized into iordan , ( as t was said of people had they not been immersi , submersi , for so baptized is , i. e. put into , put wholly under the water by iohn . rantist . but if you stand so much on the signification of the word , why do you not drown persons when you baptize them ? for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to drown , as well as douz● or dip . baptist. this interposition is so weak and silly , that some may suppose i frame such a simple businesse as this my self , on purpose to render the rantists the more ridiculous ; but i professe , as ridiculous as it is , it was once put to me by a countrey clergy man before a great auditory of people , and was as well laught at by them . to which i answer ( if a little more yet much what ) to the same tune as i then did , viz. besides the signication of the word , which justifies our practise of putting under water , we have president , not only for that , but also for the bringing persons up alive again , not only for burying them in baptism , but for the raising them again therein before their bodies a●e dead ▪ neither have we any president that they of old did use to drown them , and thereupon we let it alone ; yea sirs we leave that diabolicall dispensation of drowning the disciples of christ to the churches , of whom dr. featley boasts , who at the rates , whereby you reckon us to be anabaptists are an-anabaptists , whilest they ordered as he saies p. . that such as prophaned their first baptism by a second dipping , should rue it by a third immersion : as namely at zeurick where after many disputations between zwinglius , and the anabaptists the senate made an act , that if any presumed to rebaptize those that were baptised before , they should be drowned ; and at vienna , where many anabaptists ( so you call christs true disciples ) were so tyed together in chaines , that one drew the other after him into the river , where they were all suffocated : this president we leave to those ministers , and their churches , that list to prosecute according to it , as dr. featley , and not he only , whose patience was praelatical , but even presbyteriall mr. baxter also seem to do , whilest they incense the magistrate against us what in them lies , meerly for baptizing believers totally according to christs will , as if we were even therefore only the veriest vipers unde● heaven , and charge us downrightly ( for so mr. baxter doth ) p. . as wilful murderers , which in conscience can call for no lesse then cutting off by the civil sword , which rash charge of us the lord never charge him with if it be his will to condemnation , but only to conviction ; that he may see and confesse with confusion of face to his consolation , that he hath wronged a people precious to god , and more privy to his will in many things then himself . but if he or any still list to be contentious for such a baptizing of disciples as that was viz. a drowning of them in the deep waters of affliction , and overwhelming of them in the proud billowes of persecution , the baptism wherewith christ himself was and every disciple of his must be baptized , let that be the custome of them and their churches to baptize the saints so if they will , but i assure you we have no such custome , nor the churches of god. rantist . now you talk of dipping and drowning and baptizing by afflictions , you put me in mind of one thing which seems to me to make against you in this , for the very sufferings of the saints with christ ( as you hint above ) are stiled a baptism , and therefore sure the word baptism may be used to expresse a smaller matter , then that totall dipping and drowning , which it signifies somtimes , for the saints , though they have many sorrowes , yet are they not totally drowned , nor sunk under them , for christ both bears them up , and brings them out , if he should contend for ever their spirits would faile before him , and those souls that he hath made ; and yet these are said to be baptized : and also they are said to be baptized with the spirit , when yet it s but powred upon them . baptist. totally drowned ? no : who doub●s of that ? neither do we totally drown them we dip , but bear them up , and bring them out , and save them from dying , as else they would do , under the water , if they should ly there after a while , and this we do in token and resemblance of that salvation , which christ shews to his saints , both under and after some small sufferings for him . neverthelesse the saints sufferings are not so smal , but that they are oft times totally drenched therby , and overwhelmed ( as he that is baptized in water ) with tribulation , temptation , scorn , ignominy , and covered therewith as with a cloud : as we see the saints complaints in this case psal. . . horror hath overwhelmed me psal. . . my heart is overwhelmed psal. . . i am troubled , my spirit is overwhelmd psal. . intituled a prayer of the afflicted , when he is overwhelmed , or covered is the title of the psalm , and this is with the waters of affliction , psal. . . so . .- . .-so see psa. . . . where there is complaints of sinking as it were over head and ears , in deep mi●e , and in deep waters , where the flouds overflow , and prayer for deliverance from those swallowings up by them , in token among other things of which continual dying in the world , as well as to it , and universal passing under the waters of affliction , and overwhelming therewith here in this life , we do baptize , i. e. sink persons over head and ears , as well as raise them again alive , in token of their resurrection from all troubles at the last daie : therefore o how much of that precious signification , and representation , that is in true baptism is lost in your sprinkling , and dribling dipping the face only , which some use ? in respect also of which plungings and overwhelmings with sufferings their sufferings are metaphorically stiled a baptism mat. . . which metaphor is very familiar in scripture , which compares the calamities , and miseries the saints suffer in this mortal life gurgitibus aquarum , quibus veluti morguntur , to overflowing streames of water , wherein they are almost drownd , and therefore said to be baptized . as for the baptism with the spirit , he that shall say it is not such a powring out , as seasons the whole man soul and body , and every faculty of one and member of the other ( which if it be , it may well be called a baptism ) where in part at least all parts are purged , but of spiritualizing of some parts of the man onely , suppose his face and head , not his heart hands and feet also , but leaving other parts of him carnal and unsanctified , is not yet so well seasoned as he should be with understanding in the grace of the gospel . all this therefore speaks plainly to our purpose , and so it is evident still that the primitive saints were totally dipped , by the bare denomination of baptized , which in that particular is spoken of them . secondly it appears yet much more plainly by the subject so denominated in scripture , and said to be baptized , which is their whole persons , for t is said they were baptized , i. e. men and women , and not their faces or their hands , or their feet onely ; for if any member onely had been baptized , it could not be said properly but onely figuratively and improperly ( and we are to take things in the most proper sense they will well bear ) that men and women were baptized , or that their bodies were washed with water , as in baptism they are said to be heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when a denomination is made of any whole subject to be so or so , that is not wholly and totally so , that denomination is commonly made saltem ex majori , from the major part of the subjects being so at least , and then too it is but by the figure synechdoche , whereby we must understand that by that whole some part onely is meant , but a denomination of a subject ex minori parte , onely from some small part thereof being so , is a thing seldome or never used , and scarce cleared alwayes from absurdity , when it is by synechdoche it self : for he that should denominate his horse white , and commonly call and distinguish him from all his other horses , by the name of his white horse , onely from a starre he hath in his forehead , when all the rest of his body is black , would be counted as bruitish as the horse himself , specially if he should conceive himself speaking properly enough when he speaks so : yet little otherwise then thus do you speak , and think you speak properly enough too , whilst you commonly call them i. e those persons , baptized , that never had more then a little , baptism i cannot call it neither , but meer rantism on their faces , from which though we are foold together with you by a custome of speech to afford persons that denomination of sprinkled at least , yet to say the truth , t is more then may be well challenged from us , if we should stand upon it , and plead for propriety to the utmost , or for denomination but ex majori , which reason would back us in if we should , so little of that little subject i. e. the infant , whose face onely you sprinkle , is sprinkled by you when all is done , but we let that passe : neverthelesse , know this that totall baptizing is the onely true baptizing , and a subject not baptized totally may not be said to be baptized properly , but onely figuratively and synechdochecally , and surely the spirit speaks not all along by senechdoche , and t is as improper almost if not altogether to say that man is baptized , whose fingers , face , hands or feet onely have toucht the water , as t is to say the swan is black , because his feet are so , or the black-moor white , because his teeth are so : expresse not dentes et pedes , and then ethiops albus , and cygnus niger are two monstrous creatures indeed , and baptizatus merè rantizatus is no other , then rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno . we may not therefore , without abuse to our selves and them , conceive them that wrote the hystories of the new testament , that we might know the certainty of those things , which were at first done luke . . and to this very end too that we might do thereafter , to speak so improperly all along , as to declare and denominate those to us to be baptized i. e. in true english washt , plunged in water subm●rsi dipt under water , who if it were then as you say , or at least , as you do now , were onely wetted with a few drops , or if dipt , whose noses , foreheads or faces onely felt the water : the wisdome of the spirit in them would rather have used the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he ever doth , when he would have us conceive no more then sprinkling , as heb. . or else some more moderate phrase suitable to such a petty padling as face dripping is , had that been the onely way of those times , then the word baptize , or else have exprest that particular , or member of the body , which onely was baptized , if he would not have been understood as speaking of the whole , for that 's the usuall way wherein the spirit speaks , when he speaks of the dipping of some members onely , as luke . . when he speaks of the dipping of a member onely , he expresses the member so dipt , and the particuler subject so denominated , he saies not send lazarus that he may be dipt , or that he may dip himself , or that he may dip his body in water , but that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and coole my tongue , so mat. . . he that dippeth his hand with me in the dish ; he denominates not the man dipt from the dipping of so smal a member as the hand , or face , or feet , or what ever member of the body it was that you imagine was then baptized ; for that wetting of the face onely came up surely in cyprians daies , when they had got that trick of ease to be baptized , i should say to have their faces , the onely member at that time extant , besprinkled in their beds . rantist . but mark . . christ speaks thus of the pharisees , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. unlesse they be baptized they eat not , and yet by that baptism is meant no more but the washing of their hands , and that appears plainly in the very verse above where it s said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. unlesse they wash their hands , and then immediately after thus , and when they come from market , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , except they be washed i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in their hands , suitable to what 's said before , they eat not , yea and surely he would have exprest so much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but that t was exprest so just before under 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was needlesse to repeat it , and therefore he rather leaves it to be understood , therefore sometimes you see christ denominates men baptized , or washed , when no more then some members of them are dipped , or washed . baptist. that by the baptism or washing spoken of v. . and exprest by the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is meant no other then the washing of the hands of the pharisees i freely grant , and also that the . verse so clearly proves it , that no man living i think may rationally deny it : nor can i think that the pharisees when ever they came from market were plunged ore head and ears before they sat down to dinner , or were washed or baptized any further then manuum tenus , onely in that part viz. their hands , but i beseech you be you as ingenuous in acknowledging what you must also necessarily grant , and what you have in a manner given and granted also viz. that the force and sense of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the verse before is carried to the verse , so that it must be understood to the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 also , as following it , as well as it followes the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though it be exprest onely under the first of them , and then your recourse to the former verse for the finding out of the sense of this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 makes much for the proof of what i say viz. that christ does not usually denominate the whole man to be dipt , or baptized , when yet he meanes that some part of him onely is baptized or washt , without expressing some way or other that part of the body , wherein he is washt , and according to which onely he denominates him so to be : for even here , by your own plea ( and t is the truth ) we must to the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] except they be baptized , subaudire 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 understand this word [ their hands ] which as you say , so i say also would undoubtedly have been set down under the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to shew that to be the plain sense and meaning out viz. washing the hands , but that it was so newly named before under 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that its more elegantly understood then exprest . so that the place runs as smooth for us as we would have it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( subaudi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the pharisees except ever and anon they wash or be washt ( as to the hands at least ( for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the first future of the middle voice , and is read either actively , or passively , but rather passively ) they eat not , and when they come from the market unlesse they be washed ( meaning manuum tenus as just before ) they eat not . assuredly , therefore sirs , sith the apostles , and evangelists all along in the new testament tell us of men and women that were baptized , or washt by dipping into the water , without varying this word , or using any more words , whereby to give us to take that in a more moderate sense then for total dipping , and all this too without any expression of any particular parts , or members of those men and women , nor any more particular subject of that baptism then the whole persons , the bodies of those men and women , they meant to acquaint us thereby , that those men and women were totally dipped , that we might be so also af●er their example , or else their denominations of men and women baptized , dipped in iordan so often , so onely used are scare fair , free , plain , and proper , but rather ( contrary to what paul professes , when he saies we use all plainnesse of speech ) forced , improper , figurative , dark , and delusive , which farre be it from us once to think . thirdly , as far as the thing well can , or at least need to appear in the word by instance , and example it appears in mat. . . act. . . by the baptism of christ , and the eunuch that the form and manner of baptizing was then , and is now to be by a total dipping of the party . rantist . there is no pooof of universals by particulars ; besides it will hardly be make good that christ and the eunuch were dipped : mark and peruse what doctor featley saies to this , and some other passages , and places of scripture p. . this saith he is a weak and childish fallacy , for ex particulari non est syllogizati , no man in his right wits will conclude a general from a particular , viz. some men that were baptized went into the river , theref●re all that are baptized must do so ; the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signifies to dip , ergo it must alwaies signifie so , besides act. . . iohn . . the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies not in but with ( as the words immediately fol●owing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make it plain ) notwithstanding i grant ( saith he ) that christ and the eunuch were baptized in the river , and that such baptism of men , especially in the hotter clymates , hath been , is and may lawfully be used : yet there 's no proof at all of dipping or plunging , but only of washing in the river , but the question is whether no other baptizing is lawful , or whether dipping in rivers be so necessary to baptism , that none are accounted baptized , but those , who are dipt after such a manner ? this we say is false , neither do any of the texts alledged prove it , it is true dipping is a kind of baptizing , but all baptizing is not dipping , the apostles were baptized with fire not dipt into it , tables and beds were baptized , i. e. washed , yet not dipped , israel baptized with the cloud not dipped into it , christ and zebedees children baptized with blood , yet neither he nor they dipt into it . all this he writes in answer to what you say as if he had foreseen it by way of preoccupation , and one thing more which i had like to have left out , the fathers called teares a baptism , yet there is no dipping in that baptisme . baptist. these are dr. featleys feat , feigned and frivolous interjections indeed , in answer to rs. argument from the same examples , to all which i reply as followes . first , from particulars universals will not follow is a rule that will not universally follow neither , but in some particular cases only , for first out of its particulars collectim consideratis considered all together the knowledge and true understanding of the universall doth not onely consist , but exist also , i. e. appear by all its singulars severally observed . secondly , though there are cases , wherein one or some few singulars singled out , and considered sig●ll●tim apart from the rest , do not prove all the rest universally so to be , as they are , as namely when that one , or these few particulars are extraordinarily , or ( as i may say ) singularly or choicely so or so , e. g. the particular cases of iohn the baptist being filled so timely with the holy spirit , and of ieremiahs being seperated ( for so the spirit meanes by that word sanctifyed ier. . . ) from the womb to be a prophet , and of paul● being seperated from the womb to be an apostle , gal. . . these do not prove ( as you sometimes very simply , falsly and fallaciously infer , at least from that of iohn ) that therefore infants of believers at least are in general filled with the holy spirit , and ordinarily sanctifyed in their infancy : for it was only the measure of iohn baptists gifts ( say you my ashford antagonists p. . ) that makes his example extraordinary , as if it were ordinarily commonly , and generally so , that believers infants are filled with the spirit , as well as he , though not so fully as he was : but these are childish consequences , and infantish inferences indeed , from these singulars , for the cases were singular cases , and notoriously known not to be incident to all . or else when the matters in such particulars , from which we would argue that t is generally or universally so , are meerly fortuito , accidentally adventitious , not necessary per se , de essentia , & naturà thereunto , then there is no evincing a general by it , for it followes not that because one man , or a few men are blind , and lame or maimed , or sick , therefore all are so ; or when a matter is meerly indifferent , ad placitum , and not ex necessitate praecepti , necessary by any positive command of the same thing unto all , as well as some , then t is silly syllogizing from some to all , as to say some men , who were weak did eat herbs , therefore all the disciples did , and we all must eat no other . but again there are cases , wherein it followes from one to all , as when the matter spoken of that one doth agree to it , per se , and quâ tale , then t is true de omni also , as one man quâ homo is a reasonable creature , ergo all men are so ; there are cases also , wherein the example of what particular persons then did do prove what all then did , or should have done , & what all ejusdem capacitatis now should do in like manner ; as namly when the matter done by those particulars is necessary & no other then what by duty they stood bound to , & that by vertue of a cleer command given out not to them only , but to all those that are in the same capacity in common with them ; but specially when those particulars are recorded for our instruction , and to be patterns and examples for us to follow , then all ought to be in general , as that is , and so paul followed christ , and others ought to follow him & be as he was : and of this sort is the case here in hand , and the examples of the baptism of christ jesus and the eunuch , from which we shew how all men ( if at all ) ought of right to be baptized : for though your doctor disciples you ( not denying in the mean while but that baptizing in rivers is lawful , and mark that i pray , for it sets our baptizing in rivers out of the reach of all your exceptions , who snarle at it ) though i say he disciples you blindly into a belief , that there is another baptism lawful besides that which christ & the eunuch had , and that dipping in rivers is not so necessary to baptism , but that they may be accounted baptized , who never were dipped after such a manner , yet i tell you , through whom he being dead yet speaketh , that if by rivers he means as we mean viz. any places where there is so much water as will well serve to dipp persons ( and so he must mean , for else it might be but a pond for ought he knew , where the eunuch was dipped , for it is called but a certain water in the way ) and if by that other lawful baptizing , then that which is received in rivers , and places of much water , he mean no other then rantizing at fonts , or as you have now contracted the businesse at basons , where there is water enough to sprinkle an . but not half water enough to baptize one , you will find that at last to be so far off from being the same water baptism wherewith christ and the eunuch were baptized , that it doth not come so neer it as it would do , if it were ( as the doctor calls it ) another baptism , sith it is not so much as any baptism at all , for another baptism ( such as paedo-baptism would be if men did use it ) would be some kind of kin to the baptism of christ , they both meeting at least in the name of baptism , yet so little that christ will never own it for his , but no baptism , and such paedo-rantism is , is not so much as nomine tenus in the bare name of baptism any kin to christ , but that you falsly father it on him as his . so that in truth our talk with you about another kind of baptizing then that of christ , and the eunuch will be but impertinent , unlesse , you practised another , neverthelesse for discourse sake , and in resolution to the question as the doctor states it in reference ( no question ) to his own practise , viz. whether no other baptizing then that which christ and the eunuch had is lawful ? which is as much as to say , whether another water baptism may not serve the turn as well ? or whether christ hath not more water baptismes then one ? i answer no there is , i. e. ought to be but one baptism eph. . but one water baptisme , one kind of baptisme of that one kind , that must be the meaning , for else there 's more i. e. more kinds of baptisme then one : hebr. . . i. e. of water , spirit , sufferings . supposing therefore your baby-rantism to be that other baptism ( where note that himself confesses yours , for that sure he means to be another baptizing then that iohn and philip dispensed ) supposing it i say to be that other baptism he pleads the lawfulnesse of , yet sith christ ownes but one , even that alienation were enough to discard it as unlawful , and none of christs , as well as its being none at all , for new baptism and no baptism will speed both alike with him at last ; or if he mean onely that another manner of baptizing in water is lawful then he hath no enemy of us in that point ( save that we still shall differ about the subject ) for let any administrator take profest believers onely , and baptize them , i. e. overwhelm them in water , and let him do it where he will , yea how he will for me viz. backwards or forwards , sidelong or headlong , so he do it , and they be not naked . rantist . but still me thinks the main things the dr. drives at remain unresolved , for he tells you first that if it could be made appear that christ and the eunuch went into the water , and were totally dipt , yet thereby it appears not that all others must be baptized in such a manner . secondly that it cannot be made appear , that either of them were dipt or plunged , but onely washt in the river . baptist. no ? did i not shew you sufficiently above in what cases particular examples do prove , what the general primitive practise was , and may be argued from as from a general rule of what ever ought to be viz. when that , or those particular practises are enjoined to all as well as to some , in one and the same word of righteousnesse , but specially when propounded as paterns , and written as rules for our instruction , and such are both these baptismes of christ and the eunuch , which had never been recorded , but for our learning and for examples sake unto us , in which respect , though he needed no baptism , as we do , to be a token to baptism , for howbeit it was partly , and perhaps primarily , to fulfill all the righteousnesse of his own law , as well as of moses law , in his own person , as he testifies it became him to do in mat. . for he exacts , and expects no more obedience to himself , and the father either active or passive from us , then he acted and yielded to the father first himself , yet was he baptized partly also to the same end , in order to which he did all things else , that he either did or endured , which was imitable , and remaining for us to do after him , as baptism is viz. that he might leave us , who are so often charged to follow him , an example that we should follow his steps mat. . . pet. . . rantist . this is true the matter of his baptism is imitable by us , and we are to be baptized as well as he , nor do i yet see reason ( as the ranter seems to himself to do ) why christ himself should be ingaged to baptism , or the eunuch either , and our selves exempted from it : but whether it be so needfull to be done just in that manner as you would make it to be , i see no ground yet to believe that . baptist. can you be baptized in a better manner think you then that wherein iohn baptized christ , and philip the eunuch ? me thinks you should not derogate so much from the wisdome of those primitive administrators , as to imagine such a thing , and if you cannot are you not half wild in contending for a worse ? or secondly would you be baptized in , not so low , base , contemptible , ridiculous tedious a way to the flesh as they , but in a more honourable , more moderate , more easie , more tollerable , more world winning , more self pleasing , more flesh favoring a manner ? or what is it you would have ? me thinks either that soure service of going down into a river , or pond , and being dipt , or overwhelmed in water there , which served our lord iesus christ , and that honourable eunuch , might serve you , or else that easie sweet service of sprinkling which you content your selves with , might have served them , one of the two : for as they were required to be baptized no more then you , so surely in no more unwelcome a way of baptism then your selves ; and they would not have so farre supererrogated as to have been baptized at all , if it would have fulfilled righteousnesse in that point to have been sprinkled onely on the forehead . nay that would not , for saies christ when he came to iohn , and iohn at first refused to baptize him , thus it becometh us to fulfill righteousnesse : thus i. e. not onely in this matter , but in this manner , but if you will needs perform this service more easily then christ and the eunuch did , perform it onely ( as in sprinkling you do not ) and let be done in what manner , or accidental form you please , and if you like not to do it openly in rivers or such like places , we stand not on those nicities ( though many thousands of primitive saints as well as modern were , and are so baptized ) let it be done in a cistern , so it be totally and truly done , yea make one big enough for the disciple and the dispenser to go down in both together , so that the one may conveniently be overwhelmed in water by the other , and then let it be done in a bason , if you please . as for the other thing the dr. saies viz. that there is no proof at all of the dipping , or plunging christ and the eunuch , but onely of their washing in the river i wonder the dr. did not look into his lexicon , before he asserted such an absurdity as this , if he had , he might have found cujus contrarium , that there is proof enough that they were dipped , or plunged in the alledged texts , but no proof at all that they were washed in any other way : for the very thing that is related of them both , is that they were dipt , plunged , or washed by dipping ; t is said of christ plainly mat. . . c that he came to iohn to this very end that he might be baptized by him , and verse . being baptized he ascended presently from the water , and of philip and the eunuch act. . , they descended down both into the water , both philip and the eunuch , and he baptized him , and ver . . when they were come up or ascended out of ●he water : now i appeal to all rational and unprejudiced men in the world , that are skilled so farre in the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as to have once seen the genuine sense , and signification of it in any lexicon , e which is to dip , plunge , put under water , overwhelm with water primarily , and secondarily to wash or clense by dipping , or dousing , f whether there be not in those scriptures plain proof of their dipping and plunging , or washing by dipping , and not the least hint or evidence of any other washing at all . the dr. himself grants that they went into the river , i marvel to what purpose if not to be dipt there , he confesses also that christ and the eunuch were baptized , which in plain english is dipt , or overwhelmed in the river , mark his words [ in the river ] also that such baptism of men , especially in the hotter cl●mates , both hath been , is and may be lawfully used , and yet for all that , denies either of them to have been dipt , or plunged in the river , or that any one may now lawfully be served so : i marvell much what they did in the river , before they came out of it , o ( quoth he ) they were washt in the river , and yet not so as by dipping neither , good sirs let us examine this a little , for i cannot for my life ken what washing the dr. means , besides this of dipping , or how any other washing was performed . first to be sure it was not by sprinkling , which yet is all in all among you , and that for these reasons . first , because it s most certain that the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath no such signification as to sprinkle , neither is it rendred any where aspergo , in any lexicon or any translator of the testament whatsoever . secondly because sprinkling is no kind of washing at all , neither is there any thing in the world ( save as i said before by sluts and slovens ) so much as undertaken to be washt onely by that act of sprinkling , much lesse by such a sparing sprinkling as yours is , who sprinkle not the th part pro toto : indeed a thing may in time be so totally wetted by a continued sprinkling , as it may be put therby into some kind of capacity to be clensed by rubbing it while the water is on it , and that is farre from your practise too , but not half so well as when it is swilled in water ; and in a long while a garment may be all covered colored , and as it were died by sprinkling , as christ is said in the continued war he wages at the last , partly by the sprinkling of peoples blood upon him , and partly by his riding up and down in the wine press , where there are , as there are usually in wars , garments rould in blood , and blood up to the horse bridles , to have his raiment all stained and his vesture as it were died and dipt in blood , but all this is hyperbolicall locution , and not to be wrested to such purpose as mr. cook and mr. blake do , who because there is not enough neer hand , fetch a proof for sprinkling fourty miles off , which yet proves nothing when it comes , for they know allegories do rather illustrate then evince , but this is not such a deep dying as is by dipping . thirdly , it had been a most vain thing for them to have gone down into the river meerly to be sprinkled , if that were the onely businesse they might well have been dispenst with from descending into the water , but sith they were not , it shews that such a thing as sprinkling might excuse them , and if not them , i know not why it should excuse the best of us ; though men do much in the service of god in vain , when they do things that man doth , but god never did require at their hands , yet we cannot think christ did any thing in vain , yet so we must think if we think he went into a river to receive no more then sprinkling : and so we must think of the eunuch also , of whom we have little reason so to think , for great folks and nobles , such as he was , love to do as little as may be in contradiction to the flesh , and no more then needs must be in this point of baptism , if at all they stoop to it : for he need not have hindred himself so long in his journey , nor diseased himself so much in his body , as to have descended out of his chariot , and after into the water , but might much rather have sent philip , or his servant to have fetcht so much water in the hollow of his hand , as would have served very well to have sprinkled him , if no more then so had been required . fourthly it had been stark non-sense for mark to have said of christ as he doth mark. . . he was baptized of iohn in iordan , if he were not dipt , or if by baptized we must understand sprinkled , for he was sprinkled into the river is as absurd and unelegant english , as to say he was dipt into the rain . secondly it was not by powring water upon them , that christ and the eunuch were washed : this is the baptism mr. baxter pretends to , as that , and that only which ever he saw dispensed in all his life , as it were disclaiming the way of sprinkling , which yet is your onely wonted way : i believe he saw good cause to be ashamed of owning that any longer for baptism ▪ as many a one besides him is , who with him puts it off thus , that their baptism is not by the way of sprinkling , but powring of water upon the infans , for my part ( saith he p. . ) i may say as mr. blake , that i never saw a child sprinkled , but all that i have seen baptized , had water powred on them and so were washed . and mr. blake saies p. . of his answer to mr. blackwood , that he never saw nor heard of any sprinkled . o the egregious shifts and shuffling evasions of these men , who perceiving the perverse practise of sprinkling infants summoned , and sub paena'd , to come to a trial by the word of god , do disguise it out of its old name , that it hath born with content , and without controul for ages and generations , and doth still among many of their own party , till now they begin to see it more strictly then ever enquired after , and likely to come into trouble for its transgression from christs command ) and shroud it under another name , whereby to secure it , so that now they know not , nor ever saw or heard of any such manner of thing done in all the world . no sirs ? what never ? that is strange : what parts of christendome have you lived , or do you live in ? i profess for my part i have lived a sprinkler of infants my self about some seven or eight years , not only in several parishes , but in several parts of our english christendome , far distant , yet so far as i remember , i did never see till i came acquainted with the people , whom you nick name anabaptists , any thing done by any in that particular , that might well bear any other name then that of sprinkling , yea i know where a dispensation of baptism ( as t was called ) was done so slenderly once to the child of a noted clergy man , that the father himself was so far in doubt , whether there was so much as sprinkling , or any water at all dropt from the fingers of the dispenser , that he doubted a while after ( whether he do still or no i know not ) whether it were not his duty to have it done over again a little better ; the gentleman i speak of , if ever he read this , will surely remember both what , and what child of his i mean. mean while what more then sprinkling was ever done by my self , or any other in that place , or any other wherever i have been , i cannot call to mind , neither do i know that ever ( till of late , that men see advantage lost by it in this controversy ) the name of sprinkling was denyed to what was done in all places of england , save such where the manner was , and very newly is upon sight of the falsenesse of the way of sprinkling , to dippe a little more then the tippe of their noses . besides though the rubrick did prescribe dipping as the onely right form , wherin baptism is to be dispensed and in case of weakness declared it sufficient to pour water upon a child , yet what kind of powring was universally used by them who never used dipping , is evident by the rubrick , if we will give it leave to expound it self , for in the catechism thereof , which is not unknown to mr blake , and mr. baxter both to have been taught or commanded to be taught all children at any years in all parishes of england , this question , viz. what is the visible sign or form in baptism ? is thus resolved viz. water wherein the person baptized is dipped or sprinkled with it , in the name &c. so that howbeit the bishops were pleased to use the word pouring water ( as you do ) yet a great piece of pouring it was i promise you that their priests practised to infants ( and it is a chance whether mr. baxter and mr. blake have not in the infancy of their administration , which i suppose was in the bishops reign , done the like , though now happily they make a little better measure , or at least seen the like at some time or other , but me thinks they cannot chuse but have heard of the like in one place of the world or other ) a poor piece of pouring , i say when their hands onely being put into water were after held up perpendiculariter over the infants face , that it might be wetted a little with what fell guitatim from their fingers ends . and this hath been the most usual way that i have seen , in respect of which i may say the priest that administred all commonly by book , and wi●hin book , did act beside book , and without book in that service , for howbeit he was in joined to dip the child in the water , as the most expedient way at least , and not so much as to dispence by powring water , unlesse in case of weaknesse onely , yet he made bold , having an inch given him to take an ell , i. e. upon leave granted him to forbear dipping in time of weaknesse only , to forbear dipping altogether , and being authorized by the same ghostly fathers the bishops to make powring suffice instead of dipping at such time onely , wherein dipping might not be safely used , to make sprinkling serve instead of pouring also : and in this manner i am perswaded the world was gulled by the clergy in cyprians daies , and after , who having the verdict of so grave a father as cyprian was , that application of water in the bed might stand for baptism in time of sicknesse , in case the sicknesse proved unto death ( for if they recovered even in his judgement they ought to be had to the river and dipt ) for ease sake to the flesh , and such like self ends , made some slender slabber to stand for baptism altogether . and that sprinkling only hath been the general way of england its evident enough to any , save such , as seeing see not , and have ears and hear not : yea as shy as mr. blake and mr. baxter are of that name sprinkling , as blind and deaf as they would make themselves in this case , as though they never saw nor heard of any sprinkled , yet there are divines famous in their account , who own it , some of which seem to speak , as if they never heard of such a thing as powring of water in the dispensation of baptism , but only of dipping and sprinkling as the only forms that ever they had the hap to hear of : witnesse ( besides several other catachistical composures , that i have seen ) that specialy of mr. ball a man not only vindicated by mr. marshall , but much magnified by mr. baxter by the titles of rutherfords second , excellent mr. ball , judicious mr. ball , no dull divine to be easily misled p. . . which mr. ball in his catachise p. . speaking of the outward sign , element , action , speaks much what as it is in the rubrick , viz. water , wherewith the person baptized is washed by dipping or sprinkling in the name &c. as if he had never seen water poured on a child , but all that ever he saw had been either dipped or sprinkled . nay more then all this , witnesse also the very man that manages this very cause together with them , viz. mr. cook , whom i dare say mr. baxter and mr. blake have read , and made no little use of , for he hath furnished them both with sundry of their arguments against dipping , this man in opposition to a. r. which a. r. speaking of sprinkling , excludes it by this disjunction , viz. that the use of water must be either by infusion or dipping answers thus , not only to the clean contradicting of mr. blake and mr. baxter and to the proving of them but so so in their denyals , that ever they saw , or heard of any sprinkled , but also to the excluding of infusion or pouring , which yet in other places he pleads for , which mr. blake and mr. baxter say is the only way , yea all the way that they have seen save dipping , which yet one of them never saw at all , and to the evincing of sprinkling to be one of the ordinary waies of baptizing : for page . . whereas a. r. saies the use of water must be either by infusing or dipping , but not by infusing nor sprinkling , for he counts them much what one , therefore by dipping , mr. cook tells him , as if he had never seen or heard of such a thing as pouring , which is all that mr. baxter saies he saw in his daies , that the ordinary use of the water is one of these two waies , viz. either by dipping or sprinkling yet mr. blake that hath read mr. cook , never heard of any sprinkled : so calvin , tylenus , buchan , and all call it either aspersim , or immersion : yet again some divines seem to speak , as if they never saw nor heard of such a thing as dipping , unlesse among the heretical anabaptists , which yet is the onely true and primitive form of baptism , but onely of pouring on of water or sprinkling , witnesse the whole synod of divines , who in their directory direct the world further out of the way of the word in point of baptism , then the bishops in their rubrick did , for they in their liturgy appointed dipping to be done , as the most expedient form , and powring on water onely in case of necessity , but the other in theirs directly exclude dipping , as a thing no where appearing to be needful , and order that either of the other shall serve without it : for these are their words p. . of the directory , viz. he is to baptize the child with water , which for the manner of doing it , is not only lawful but sufficient , and most expedient to be by powring or sprinkling of the water on the face of the child : whether any thing that ever hath been done by any in obedience to this directory in that second way of sprinkling , which mr. baxter denies that he ever saw done , and mr. blake that he ever heard of as done to any , did ever reach mr. baxters eye , or mr. blakes eare , i leave them seriously to examine ; but this i am sure of that the baptism of christ and the eunuch was dispensed neither by sprinkling as i have shewed above , nor yet by bare pouring on of water which they so plead for : and this i shall now make appear as plainly as the other . for first in vain did they descend into the river to have nothing but water poured on them with no greater spout or stream then what runs down contiguously from the hallow of ones hand ; but christ did nothing surely in vain , and philip and the eunuch might well have spared their paines in wetting themselves so much , as they must needs do by going down both into the water , and as sufficiently discharged such a service by standing only on the shore . secondly , if by powring you mean the powring of a farre greater quantity of water then what can he held in the hand , as namely out of some scoop , or vessel used to such a purpose upon the face or head , as that might have been done full as well by the water side , if they had not gon down into the water , so it must have been as tedious by running down into their necks and bosomes , and so necessarily have occasioned the trouble of the shifting of themselves , as very dipping it self can be , or do . thirdly , t was not by washing them in any other way , excepting still that of dipping , suppose by applying water to them with their hands or otherwise , and then rubbing it on their bodies , for if so , then this washing must be of their whole bodies , or of some part or parts of them onely , if some part or parts onely , then of those parts which we commonly keep uncovered as the face and hands , or else let it be assigned what other parts , but it was not the face or hands onely that were thus washt , for this again were a very vain thing to go down into the water for , as it s said of philip and the eunuch that they both did : frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora : t is meer foolishnesse to fetch a beetle and wedges to cleave a stick no bigger then ones finger , & little wisdome to run so much as ore shoes meerly to wash ones face or hands , which may be done as well at the waters side , as in it : if their whole bodies were thus washt , then it must be done either with their clothes on , and that is impossible , for though the whole body may be baptized i. e. washt by dipping or swilling it under the water as conveniently , and more comely with clothes on then otherwise , yet they surely have little else to do , and find themselves more work then becomes wise men , that go about to wash persons by rubbing water upon them through their garments , besides while you can totally wash one in that form of washing , i le wash by dipping at least no less then a score : or else exutis vestimentis i. e. stark naked , & that were more immodest then naked dipping . fourthly , nor was it done by dipping some part of their bodies onely into water , but the whole , for to dip a person but in part , besides that it is not properly to dipp that person , but onely to dip some part of him , is to the dispenser , and the disciple too , tanta mount in difficulty if not surmounting a total dipping , yea to dip the whole body of a man at years ( for we speak not now of infants , that may at ease be dandled any way in ones armes ) is easie enough to the dispenser , when the disciple is once gon down with him into the water , and yields himself to be laid along in it by his hands , but conceive what part of a man you will , except the hands which you will not for shame say is the onely member to be baptized , and i le say hic labor , hoc opus est , t is a matter of no smal difficulty to dip meerly that : for if you will dip a mans head and shoulders onely in the river , you must poise and posture him archipodialiter with his heeles upwards , if his feet and legs onely , you must first at least lift him up wholly , and carry him in clearly from the ground , which kind of dipping men in rivers , as t is more toilsome surely then that totall dipping , which iohn and philip used , so let him take it , who is minded to make himself more moil then needs , for our parts we have a way wherein to do it with more ease , and to do it more sufficiently too , then by the halves . as for the other of the dr. quibbles viz. first ( for the rest of them are elsewhere removed ) that the israelites were baptized in a cloud , not dipt into it . resp. nor sprinkled neither , but onely metaphorically baptized . secondly , that zebedees children were baptized with blood , the baptism wherwith christ was baptized , and yet neither he nor they dipt into blood . resp. both he and they were baptized with sufferings , shame and contempt , and affliction , and all misery in the world for truths sake i. e. penè , yea penitus submersi , sunk ore head and ears in deep waters of the proud , going over their souls , and overwhelmed with the waves of the wickeds wrath , prevailing against them for a time , and that 's the bloody baptism he speaks of , not litterally the sprinkling of their own blood upon them , when they were slain , for iohn suffered otherwise , but his blood was not shed at all . thirdly , that the fathers speak of the baptism of tears but no dipping in that baptism . resp. we mind not what your fathers spake hyperbolically , but what our fathers spake in truth , and plain sobernesse in this case . it was therefore a totall dipping certainly , which was then used , and by which christ and the eunuch were baptized in the water , and not any other kind of washing there , as the dr. dreames , which is also evinced yet a little further by this , forasmuch as though the eunuch was gone down with philip into the water , yet he was not said to be baptized till philip had dipt him therein : for if the wetting or washing , or dipping of some parts of the body onely might passe for sufficient baptism , then as soon as philip had conducted the eunuch into the river , he might have led him out again as a person sufficiently baptized , for he was washt already and dipt so far as to the ancles , but the businesse was not done though the eunuch was in the river , till he had baptized him thereinto . rantist . give me leave though to put in one thing by the way , and that is this , t is a question to me for all your confidence , whether philip and the eunuch went down into the water at all or no , the praeposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereupon you ground it , doth not alwayes signifie into , but sometimes unto , and why may it not in this place be thus read viz. they went down both of them unto the water , both philip and the eunuch ? baptist. no it cannot , for they came unto the water before , and so it s expressely spoken in the text ver . . where its said , and as they went on their way , they came unto a certain water , ( t is probable some foord or brook that they were to pass through ) and the eunuch said see here is water , what hindereth me to be baptized , if they were come unto the water already ( as the word saies they were ) they could not be said properly ( except they had gone from it first ) to come unto the water again after they were come unto it , therefore the next motion was into it without question : yea the very dr. himself , with whom we now deal , confesses no lesse then this , that christ and the eunuch were baptized in the river , and that such baptism of men hath been used , if then they were used to be baptized in the water , they went down first certainly into it , not unto it onely , for then they could not be well said to be baptized in it . as therefore to that other quirk whereby the dr. seeks to evade all baptizing in water , and pleads for a baptism with water onely viz. that the praeposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which commonly is put after the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies not in but with and is so translated ) and this is one of mr. cooks crotchets too p. . of his book ) the drs own grant quite cashieres it , while he saies that iohn and philip baptized christ and the eunuch in the river , for though i deny not but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be , and sometimes is truly enough translated with especially in rev. . . the place quoted by dr. featley and mr. cook , who both strive to enervate a. rs argumentation from that praeposition , which is used mat. . . mark. . . where iohn saies i indeed baptize you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. in water ( saith a. r. ) with water ( saith the dr. and mr. cook ) yet if it be granted ( as it is by the d● ) to be in the river , then it cannot be denied but that it is in water however , and so the dr. thwarts himself in that . neither is there such inconsistency in my conceit between baptizing in water , and with water , as that either this or that should be held exclusively of the other , for they rather necessarily stand both together , yet so as that the advantage stands still by it on our hand , for whoever baptizes at all , yea he that baptizeth in water baptizeth with water also , and likewise he that will baptize wi●h water must necessarily baptize in water too , i. e. obruere overwhelm or plunge persons over head and ears therein , or else if we go to the truest signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in reality he baptizeth not at all . let it be rendred therefore baptize in water , or with water which you will , it s all of a price to us , sith the one of these includes the other . and whereas the dr. and mr. cook both make such a matter of the words that follow viz. i he shall baptize you with the holy spirit and fire , the dr. pleading that the apostles were baptized with fire not dipt in to it , and mr. cook that one may as well say christ baptized in the holy spirit , and in fire , or put the party into the holy spirit and fire , as that john baptized in water , the praeposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being there also . i answer , we may as well say so indeed , for t is a truth as well as the other , they that are baptized with the spirit and fire , are also baptized in the spirit and in fire , and put into the spirit , and into fire i. e. wholly into a holy flame of zeal for god , and the gospel , for that 's the baptism with fire that is there mainly spoken of , and not as the dr. divines that outward appearance of cloven tongues onely , like as of fire that sat upon them in the assembly act. . . for that was but a special , accidentall , visible token of gods presence extraordinarily appearing among those particular persons at that time , baptizing them inwardly with the other , which is no more necessarily incident to all persons that are baptized with fire , and to all those unto whom that baptism with fire is promised , which are indeed all the saints , that repent and believe the gospel , as well as those that were met on the day of pentecost , ( as we see mat. . . where iohn promises the baptism with fire , as well as with the spirit to all penitents , most of which never had that vision of cloven tongues ) which appearance of cloven tongues i say , is no more incident to , nor to be expected by all that are baptized with fire , then the appearance of the spirit descending in shape of a dove , and lighting upon christ at the time , when he was baptized or filled with the spirit , which was much vvhat such another special , casual and visible token of gods presence as the other , is incident to , or to be expected by all those that are baptized i. e. filled vvith the holy spirit : and albeit this phrase [ in the spirit ] may seem to sound so non-sensically to mr , cook out of our mouthes , that are a people of no account vvith him , yet i hope it shall seem congruous enough out of the mouth of the holy spirit , and the holy apostles themselves , for they use it more then once , or twice in the holy scripture , and me thinks he should not be , unlesse he be willingly , ignorant of it ; for not onely doth iohn say twice viz. rev. . . . . of himself in this manner viz. i was in the spirit , and he carried me away in the spirit , but likewise paul saies plainly to all saints gal. . . walk in the spirit , and to himself and all saints , v. . if we live in the spirit let us walk in the spirit , and testifies of the saints also rom. . . that they are not [ in ] the flesh , but [ in ] the spirit , if the spirit of god dwell in them , where by [ in the flesh ] he means all over , all together , or totally fleshly , drenched , drowned in flesh , plunged over head and ears as it were , in flesh , filth , and corruption as the world is that lies in wickednesse , so that there is nothing but flesh to be seen upon them , as he is that is buried in water , whom that element hath wholly covered , and by being [ in the spirit ] no other then that which is the baptism with the spirit , i. e. being indued with the spirit , wholly sanctified in every part though but in part , with the spirit , all over seasoned , washed ▪ clensed by the spirit , for thus he is , that is baptized with the spirit , i. e. he is in the spirit as well as the spirit in him . more then this yet , though the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] may be rendred [ with ] as well as [ in ] for t is both [ with ] and [ in ] water that we are baptized , when we are baptized as we should be , when it stands between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that we may read it as well i baptize you [ with ] water as [ in ] water , yet can it not be very properly read so when it stands between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and yet so it stands mat. . . mark . . for though i can bear with him that saies thus , viz. iohn baptized [ with ] water , yet he that shall say that iohn baptized [ with ] iordan or with the river iordan , as if all iordan was used to every ones baptizing rather then [ in ] iordan and [ in ] the river iordan , i shall think that his braines crow out nonsense which is intolerable . whereupon as to the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] all translators do there english it [ in ] and not [ with ] and though i can read it [ with ] together with them , as well as [ in ] when the greek is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet by their leave , and with non-submission to their judgements ( as no way sleighting them ) further then i find them not fallible , and saving both the dr. and mr. cooks conceits to the contrary , i see no reason sith one of those places is a relation of the same thing with the other , but that as mat. . . mat. . . we must read thus , viz. they were baptized of iohn [ in ] the river iordan , so we may without such uncouth utterance of the thing , as seems to them to be in it , yea and as agreeably to scripture language as otherwise read mat . . mar. . . thus viz. i indeed baptize you [ in ] water , but he shall baptize you [ in ] the holy spirit and fire . but more then all this yet , though the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] that is used in those places , may without any advantage to you be read with as well as in yet the praeposition [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] which is used mark . . where it is said that christ was baptized of iohn into iordan , that cannot possibly be rendred with which yet in the intent of the spirit is doubtlesse the same in sense and signification as [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is in the other , and more significant to our purpose , for howbeit , it be rendred in iordan as [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is elsewhere , yet into iordan were more agreeable to that rendition of it , that is usuall in other places : but so to read it , viz. he was baptized of iohn into iordan doth render your sprinkling a plain piece of nonsence , for it cannot be sensibly said , he was sprinkled into iordan , therefore you will in no wise give way to that : the doctor indeed leaves a. r. and bids him farewell in that point , as if he were affraid to have any noise of it , and saies not a word against it ; but mr. cook and mr blake , who saves himself a labor , & uses not a jo● more then what mr. cook furnishes him with to that purpose , do both sternuously stand against the reading of the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] mark . . by into mr. cook p. . and mr , blake p. . of their respective returns to a. r. and mr. blackwood , who both make mention of that passage ; yet the utmost that both these repugnants bring against it is of no more force then a very feather , for all that they say is this , that the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] doth often signify in or by and not into as mat. . . mark . . mat. . . mat . . . . . he dwelt in nazareth , in capernaum ; neither by ierusalem &c. neither possesse mony in your purses ; in the name of a prophet , she hid it in three measures of flour , in all which places the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is englished in or by . resp. as if because this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath other significations besides into , but specially the signification in in other places , where very common sense , and reason shew that it cannot there bear be englished into , but only in , therefore it cannot by any meanes bear to be englished into in this place where it s as good sense , save that it shewes sprinkling to be nonsense , yea and more suitable to a genuine , and candid construction of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and undoubtedly to the spirits meaning in the place to english it into then to english it in , for though he was rantized [ anglice ] sprinkled into iordan be ridiculous , yet he was baptized [ anglice ] dipped into iordan is as proper to the full , as he was baptized in jordan , yet they blush not to say , for so saies mr. cook , and there lies the very force of his reason , viz. that because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies in , though he knowes i● signifies into also , therefore it were absurd to render it into here at all ; mr. blake also makes this his sole ground whereupon to say that the scripture is against our englishing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here by into , because elsewhere , viz. in the places they alledge , where the sense will not bear it to be read [ into ] its rendred all along in or by ; i cannot but believe that those two gentlemen are judicious enough to discern their own halting , and meer shuffling in this case , for if i should argue upon them , as to but one of those places , where they will have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be englished in on this wise viz the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 very frequently , and most properly signifies into as namely luke . . he entered into one of the ships rom. . . thou art grafted into a good olive tree ephes. . . he descended into the lower parts of the earth , mat. . . enter into thy closet , mat. . . lead us not into temptation acts . . they went down both into the water both philip and the eunuch , therefore it is absurd for you to render it in in mat. . . and the scripture is against that interpretation , if i say i should urge so upon them ( and so they argue to us ward ) they would quickly spye out my nakednesse in that consequence ; but o how abominable blind are they at home ? neverthelesse i tell you plainly that though right is right , and to be stood for to a tittle , and that if the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mark . . were rightly rendred , it should be rather into then in yet the service the word in will do us in that place , is little lesse then what the word into will do , so that we need not stand contending for the sense of into having enough from your own professed sence of in without the other , wherefore waving out right in that at present , we w●ll freely fall in with you as the sense is in , yea we grant that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies in and that in many more places , then those alledged by your selves , as namely to add to your store act. . . thou wilt not leave my soul in hell luke . my children are in bed with me . but is it so that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies in and is so rendred in that place , and many more ? then i am sure that here it doth not signify out of for he that is in a city ( put a nazareth or capernaum ) is at that time when said to be in it , not out of it nor only by it but in it , money that is truly denominated to be in a purse is at that time truly in it and neither out of it nor beside it , leaven hid in three pecks of meal , whilest hid is in it , overwhelmed , covered with it , and not on the outside with a few dusts of meal sprinkled on it only ; he that is in hell i. e. the grave , in bed while he is truly said to be in it , he is in it , and not at it only , and so he that is truly denominated to be baptized in water or in iordan in the river jordan is not out of it , not at it , not by the side of it , not neer it only as you fancy them to have bin that were baptized of john in jordan . he i say who is said truly ( and the spirit lies not ) to be baptized in jordan must needs be , whilest he was in the act of this baptizing , not out of jordan , nor just by it only , but truely in it , and that 's more then he needs to be in order to baptism , if he can be baptized as well standing by it only in that fiddling way of sprinkling . whereas therefore you contend against baptizing , i. e. dipping into jordan into rivers , and plead for a baptizing in water onely by the example of christs baptism which you yield in jordan , but not into it , i marvel what wide difference you see in these two , that you should grant it to be in , and yet be affraid to grant it to be into jordan : you cry out not into , not into by any meanes , for that is no way consistent indeed with your dry washing , but by all meanes let it be in only , viz. in water , in the river , in jordan : let it be in water then as much as you will for me , so it be [ in ] water that you are baptized , and not out of it , and not well nigh without it , as most of y●ur christened creatures are , whilest little or none , in comparison of such a measure of water as must necessarily be in order to a true baptizing of them , doth once come neer them . fourthly , it appears plainly that the way of baptizing in the primitive times was by totall dipping , not sprinkling , in that they chose to do it in places , where there was much water , or many waters , which they need not have done , if sprinkling might then have past for baptizing , iohn baptized in the river iordan , and was baptizing iohn . . in enon neer to salem , and the reason is rendred thus , viz. because there was much water there , and there they came and were baptized ; and as the reason why they went to be baptized there , was because there was much water , or many waters ( for the word is plurall ) so surely the reason , why they went to such a place was that they might be baptized i. e. dipped in water , as they could not conveniently be elsewhere , at least not every were , for where might they not easily have bin sprinkled ? and upon this account no doubt , as iohn chose to preach about those river sides , viz. iordan and enon , that their converts might conveniently be baptized , paul and silas being at philippi , and abiding in that city certain daies to preach the gospel , on the sabbath , the most likely time of vacuity from other occasions for people to assemble to hear in , went out of the city by a rivers side , and there sate down , and spake to as many as resorted thither to hear , viz. certain women , ( for men for the most part were more shy of the gospel as now they are ) that they might conveniently dispense baptism to them , as should imbrace the gospel , as a certain woman named lidya , and her houshold did , and thereupon out of hand were all baptized , act. . . &c. rantist . their baptizing where there was much water for this reason , that they might do the work so effectually to every person as by dipping , is a frivolous conjecture , as if there could be no reason , why iohn should chose a place , where many waters were but that he might dipp the whole man in the water , the cause rather seems to be this , because waters in those hot countryes were rare , and in some places could not be had in a great distance , and because there came multitudes to be baptized , for the dispatching of which they might well seek places of many waters , where john and his disciples might at once be imployed , one water of depth sufficient would have served for the use of dipping , for dipping sake he might have sought for a deep , but needed not to seek many waters . baptist. so saies mr. cook indeed to a. r. p. . . and mr. blake to mr. blackwood , who jumps as just with mr. cook , as one that never saw nor heard of any sprinkled , can likely do with another , who maintaines sprinkling to be the onely way of baptizing , but both weary themselves to little purpose . the question is not whether iohn had no reason ▪ but that which we alleadge of baptizing , where there was much water , but whether that which we alleadge viz. that he might dipt the whole man be not one reason : as for that you bring viz. because there came multitudes to be baptized , and that iohn and his disciples might at once be imployed in baptizing , that can be no reason at all of their running into rivers to baptize , nor of their dispensing in iordan , in enon , and in places of much water , or in many waters , and therefore ( for ought i see yet ) ours is the onely one : for verily were it not for the sake of totall dipping , they need not for the multitudes sake that came to be baptized , nor yet for the multitudes sake who did baptize ( i mean iohn and his disciples , who no doubt were all at once imployed in that work ) have sought for a place of much water , or many waters : for as one bason of water may well serve to sprinkle a whole parish of many persons , or if not , it s easily replenisht , so many persons imployed at once in sprinkling might easily put their hands into one , or if not , might they not easily have it in many basons ? what a poor shift is this ? rivers , iordan , enon , many waters , and why ? because many were baptizing , and many to be baptized ; one water of depth ( quoth mr. blake ) would have served for the use of dipping : for dippings sake they he might have sought for a deep , but needed not seek many waters : but would not one water of no great depth , as a bason , yea of no depth at all , as a cock or conduit have served for the use of sprinkling s ? for sprinkling sake , even of multitudes , they need have sought for neither deep waters , nor for many waters neither ▪ or if they must needs have had as many waters as they had dispensers , they might quickly have made many waters out of one , by filling out of one well , one cock , one bucket , many basons . mr. blake rejoices in mr. blackwoods rendring the word plurally viz. many waters , which the translators render in the singular viz. much water , supposing he hath such a prize in our yielding to read it so , as takes off the whole force of our reason : but i hope he understands himself better then to believe , that by many waters is meant several waters , waters in several sourses or channels divisim , sigillatim , seor sim sumptae , divided and a part one from another , for by many waters is meant a confluence of much water together , many waters meeting in one , flowing , running contiguously , and contained jointly in one sourse , river , channel ; otherwise in one river enon it could not be said there were many waters , for t was but one floud , as iordan was , so that by enon , or many waters he must needs understand much water , a sufficiency , a competency of water for the occasion in hand , enough to baptize i. e. to dip , and overwhelm in , and not several waters , for several persons at once to sprinkle in , for this might be done easily without much water , and if not without several waters , yet at least in several basons of water onely , but the other could not : many shallowes were sufficient for many to rantize , and be rantized in , but they sought some one deep , one iordan , one enon of depth sufficient , those being onely the most fit to baptize i. e. to dip in . fiftly , it appears plain that the saints in the primitive time were totally dipped , or overwhelmed in water by that denomination that is given to them after baptism rom. . . . where the romans are said to be baptized into the death of christ , and buried with him in baptism into death : also col. . . when the collosians are said to be buried with christ in baptism , and therein also raised with him , through the faith of the operation of god , who raised him from the dead : now we all know that he that is buried , is totally put under that element wherein he is buried , whatever it be , whether water or earth , and all over covered with it , not sprinkled with a little onely . non quaelibet aquae guttula , nec quaelibet terrae globula : t is not a little parcel of water , sprinkled on a man can denominate him baptized , as t is not a little clod of earth crumbled on a man can denominate him to be buried , for baptism is a burial , an ordinance , and visible sign , wherein every believer is to be visibly buried , and every one that 's truly buried , is totally covered , subjected to that element that buries him , and for a time at least translated by it out of sight . rantist . buried ? yea , but mistically and spiritually , invisibly and inwardly onely , in respect of the thing signified in baptism , and effected in them viz. death to sinne by vertue of christs death , in which respect also they are said to be raised i. e. to newness of life by the power of christs resurrection ; but this is not meant nor spoken with reference to the visible sign it self , as if there were to be a burying of the body under water , and bringing that up again : it s the inward grace , and not the outward sign it self , in respect of which baptism is called a burial , and a resurrection , the things signified being our dying to sin , and rising to righteousnesse , even as christ did die and rose again . baptist. i am glad to hear you grant so much truth as you do at the present , and i hope you will see the whole out in the end , for all will not own so much , some , perceiving no doubt what a foundation it laies for us to build firmly upon all that in this point we contend for , do rather choose to deny this truth that baptism signifies , or at least that it resembles a death , and resurrection , then by owning it , be forc't to own the true way of baptism indeed . your dr. featley little better then denies both at first p. . saying thus , as for the representation of the death and resurrection , that is not properly the inward grace signified by baptism , but the washing the soul in the laver of regeneration , and clensing us from our sinnes , but i can little lesse then admire that he above all men , who quotes the rubrick with little lesse authority , then he doth the bible , and hath no question little lesse then an times in his daies taught little children the catachism contained therein , should quite forget to learn it himself , for there it s set down plainly , that the inward and spritual grace signified by the outward sign of baptism , is death unto sinne , and a new birth unto righteousnesse ; and besides he knew that in true regeneration , there is a death and resurrection . rantist . however in the manner of baptism as it is administred in the church of england there is a resemblance of a death and resurrection , for though the child be not alwayes dipt in water , as the rubrick prescribeth , save onely in case of necessitie , which would be dangerous in cold weather , especiall if the child be weak and sickly , yet the minister dippeth his hand in the water , and plucketh it out again when he baptizeth the infant : and these are the very words of dr. featly next following the words you quoted , and therefore whether he be right in those or no , i am sure he is in these , for there is a resemblance of death and resurrection in our baptism . baptist. whether the d●s mind misgave him or no after he had asserted that a death and resurrection is not the thing signified , and that which is to be resembled in baptism i know not , but me thinks he speaks as if he feared whether that would hold water or no , and therefore least it should be found to leak , in the very next words , which you now speak in , as one supposing it the safest way to grant tha● there ought to be a resemblance of a death and resurrection in right baptism , he rather goes another way to work viz. to patch up a proof of it that there is a resemblace of a death and resurrection in that administration of it , that is used in england ; but t is in such a way me thinks as may well make all the seers ashamed , and divines confounded , specially you that so dote on that doctor as to give up your selves to be so blindly discipled by him ( as you do and would have others to do so also ) that ever such a piece of doctrine should be delivered ( and yet behold you justifie and side with it ) by englands doctors in divinity . it seems then you dare nor quite gainsay , but that a representation of a death and resurrection is fit to be made in the manner of baptizing , and that the church of england hath prescribed that it shall be done in such a manner , as may be tanta mount thereto viz. by dipping , unlesse of necessity through the infants sicknesse it be done otherwise ( yet notwithstanding that prescription of the church , which of you priests did ever do any other then sprinkle the healthiest infants ? ) but because the subject of your baptism in england , being an infant , is too tender at all times to be dipt or buried in water ( where not that your false subject of necessity ingages you to forgo the true way of baptizing , which your selves prescribe unlesse necessity forbid it ) because i say the child cannot conveniently be buried with christ in baptism into death in his own person , therefore ( ecce signum ) this visible death , burial , and resurrection with christ must be all transacted for him per alium i. e. by the ministers hand , that is dipped into water , and brought out again as it were instead of the child . and this is even very suitable to all the rest , for all the rest of your service in the point of baptism is done by representatives , as little as it represents what is mainly to be represented by it , and one part would mock the other if this should not be done so too : t is true all is done in the childs name , and in the childs stead , but nothing done that of right ought to be done either by , or to the child himself : the infant indeed is askt , dost thou believe in god ? dost thou forsake the divel ? wilt thou be baptized & c ? but others must answer , and promise , and professe , assent to , and vow all these for him , others mouthes must speak his mind , and there 's the profession : again he is spoken to by the minister saying to him , i baptize thee i e. dip or bury thee with christ in baptism into death , for so t is in a little plainer english , and true sense and intent of the service , but alas it s nothing but the ministers hand that is dipt , buried , raised again with the drips that hang upon which the infant is onely rantized , and there is the resemblance of the death , burial and resurrection : but i trust sirs you will understand at last that when paul saies to the romans and colossians that they were buried and raised in baptism , he doth not mean that the dispensers hands , but that their bodies were put under water , and brought out again , in respect of which they were said to be buried into death , and are raised again , i. e. not spiritually onely , and really in respect of the soules dying to sinne , and living to righteousnesse , but outwardly , visibly , bodily in water also , and this significatively , and representatively of the other , and this is my third argument for total dipping . rantist . significatively i grant if you will , but not representatively , i know no necessity that in every sign there is to be a resemblance of the thing signified thereby . baptist. if that be granted you will not easily withstand the other , yet that is granted by the most , and must be granted by all whether they will or no : as for mr. cook and mr. blake themselves they neither of them seem to me to deny , but that such a thing as a death and resurrection are signified in baptism , yea mr. cook affirms it , yea , who questions saith he p. . but our justification and sanctification , or remission of sins , together with mortification and vivification are signified by baptism ? and he saies right , for none can , and i think none doth deny it , but dr. featley , of all divines that i know of : yea calvin and zanchee both assert it in their several expositions upon these very places rom. . . coloss. . . this participation in death saith calvin , is principally to be respected in baptism , for not onely purgation , but also mortification , and the dying of the old man is proposed there , &c. and of spiritual circumcision paul maketh two parts saith zanchee , the first he calleth buriall with christ , the other resurrection with him , and of both these he maketh baptism the sign &c. neverthelesse our above named opposers will at no hand give way , that there should be any representation or resemblance made in baptism of these two things , which are the prime significations of it , by putting under water and plucking out again : yea they seem to chide with their several antagonists . a. r. and c. b. for offering once to urge that the outward sign ought to hold analogy or proportion with the thing signified in that particular ; a proportion between the sign , and these things signified , viz. a death , burial and resurrection mr. blake grants there is in our way of baptism by dipping , but that there need be , or should be so by institution , this he heares not of with patience , no , nor mr. cook neither . but if it please you to have patience with me so long , sith those two are the maine men that ( beside the doctor whose repulse is not worth a rush ) so mainly oppose our argument from rom. . col. . i le take the paines to transcribe their several replies , and then see what strength there is in all that they say to the contrary . mr. cooks defence is as followes . what you go about to gather saith he from col. . . rom. . . i know not , unlesse this , that as christ was buried , abode in the grave three daies , and then rose again , so your party baptized must be put under the water , abide there some considerable time , and then come up again , for if you presse a similitude of christs death in going down into the water , and of his resurrection , or comming up out of the water , why not also of his abode three daies by abiding three daies or some considerable time , under the water ? which will make bad work , neither can any such thing be gathered from those scriptures . i would demand two questions ( saith he ) . how you gather from these places a dipping of the whole man over head and under water ? and that a similitude of christs death , burial and rising again , to be represented by dipping in water , is signified here ? these scriptures shew indeed that the end of our baptism is to seal our communion with him in his death , and resurrection , by which we are dead to sin , and raised again to holinesse : but if you will presse hence a resurrection by our descending into , abiding in , and comming up out of the water , take heed least you be one of those , which adde to gods word , least he reprove you as a lyar , and adde unto you the plagues written in his book , for i know no word of god , wherein this representation is necessarily implyed , much lesse expressed . besides if you urge death and resurrection to be resembled by descension into , and ascension out of the water you must urge also burial , which is principally there expressed by the biding of the whole man , head and all under for a time , answerable to christs three daies burial , which cannot be without danger , yea certainty of drowning . . if it should be granted that a representation and resemblance of christs death , burial and resurrection is set before us in baptism , and so of our death to sin , and rising again to holinesse , yet i demand why this may not as well be by infusion of water as dipping ? can you give me an example of so many killed and buried by immersion , or dipping into the water , as i can give of them that have been put to death and buried by infusion of water ? i am sure a whole world of men and other creatures ( those few that were in the ark only excepted ) were buried in the universal deluge at once by infusion , not by dipping : so that infusion or sprinkling may as well clearly signifie death and burial as dipping : and to the preservation of noah and those that were with him in the ark ( on which waters were poured ) from drowning : the apostle compares baptism as its anti-type . thus far mr. cook p. , . and then again p. , . . he undertakes further viz. to argue back again upon us at large , and to prove , that if there must needs be a resemblance and representation in baptism of the things , that are signified therby , then it may be as well , nay must be rather by washing , pouring sprinkling then by dipping and putting under the water , sprinkling and infusion being as ( if not more ) agreeable to the nature and insti●ution of baptism then dipping or immersion , for as the word used , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies washing , so the thing represented , signifyed and sealed ( saith he in the wonted implicit phrase ) in baptism is a washing cor. . . ye are washed . &c. the washing of regeneration tit. . having your bodies washed with pure water heb. . . t is a cleansing and purging john. . . blood of christ clenseth us from all our sinnes heb. . . blood of christ shall purge your conscience , which things viz. washing , clensing , purging are done as well by infusion of water saith he as dipping , and though it were granted saith he , that in those hot countreys they commonly washt by going down into the water , and being dipt therein , that will no more inforce a necessity on us of observing the same in baptism now , then the examples of christ , and the apostles gesture in the supper ties us to the same which was leaning and partly lying , but it may be objected ( saith he ) that sprinkling a little water doth not so fitly represent the washing of sins away , as dipping or plunging , sith here the whole body is washed , there the face or head onely : i answer first saith he , the scripture no where requires washing of the whole body in baptism . secondly , with as good reason one may plead thus , that t is most convenient that at the supper every communicant should receive his belly full of bread and wine , and take as long as his stomack and head will hold , to signifie the full refreshment of the soul with the body and blood of christ ; but who would endure saith he , such reasoning ? these outward elements of water , bread and wine are for spiritual use , and to signifie spiritual things , so that if there be the truth of things , the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end , namely to represent the spiritual grace , and that it be neither so little as not clearly to represent it , nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing : yea the spirituall grace and visible act of god upon the soul signified , and represented by the outward act of baptism viz. the application of christs blood , and donation of the spirit is exprest in scripture by the name of powring , sprinkling , and that probably , if not certainly , with allusion to the administration of baptism isa. . . joel . . i will powre out my spirit upon all flesh , ezech. . . i le sprinkle clean water upon you , and you shall be clean , this clean water questionlesse is the blood and spirit of christ represented in the water of baptism , so in the new testament act. . heb. . . pet. . . heb. . . and . verses compared together and heb. . . now ( saith he ) let any one without prejudice consider these scriptures , whether at least some of them speak not in allusion to baptism , and whether baptism be not a lively resemblance and representation of the things here spoken of , and withall let him consider whether the thing exhibited in this sacrament , be ever so fully set forth by dipping , and then i leave him to judge whether sprinkling be not as , if not more , agreeable to the nature of this sacrament as dipping or immersion . in this manner mr. cook delivers his conceptions in his to a. r. we will onely see what his parallel saith , who argues as mr. cook doth , epitomizing as it were the labors of mr. cook , unto his own turn against c. b. wee l first fully receive his charge also , and then fully return what in right reason remaines to be returned to both . if by baptism saith he we are planted into the likenesse of christs death , and also made partakes of his resurrection , will it follow therefore that there must be some ceremony in the application of the water to resemble it ? if you may take this liberty of argument , give me leave saith he to attempt the like , and with as good reason to conclude , that baptism must be no other then sprinkling , that there may be proportion between it , and that sprinkling of blood and water , that did foreshadow it : or baptism must be onely by powring of water , there being a lively representation between that and pouring out of the holy spirit ; or that baptism must be by washing with water only , there being a lively proportion between that , and washing away of sins by christs blood ; you see ( saith he ) what you will gain from these disputes from analogy and proportion . to this purpose mr. blake p. . as if he had stopt all our mouthes , by this at once for ever , yet i hope he shall see that he hath left us room enough yet to breath in , and by which to breath out some reply . now to give the more plain , quick , cleer , and condig● check to these two palpable controulers , not to say contramplers of the present precious and apparent truth , reducing mr. blakes sharp and snap-short syllogisticalls unto that long circumferaneous collation of mr. cook , out of which ( for ouhgt i find ) he fetch it , and in the answering of which mr. blake is answered as well as he , i most earnestly intreat both those two , and all other opposites to that one , and onely true way of baptizing we plead for , viz. of total dipping , seriously to advise what is granted and d●nyed , what is asserted and argued , and by what weak mediums , and on what crazy grounds those things are , that are in contradiction to us denyed , asserted or argued by them or either of them . they are indeed copartners so that both seem to side with what either saith , which yet i marvel at the more , because mr. blake who quotes but contradicts not mr. cook in it at all , ●o far as i find occasion to gues●e by some passages in the first and fourth pages of his reply to mr. blackwood , is against sprinkling , so far at least as to judge the way of dipping mr. blackwood pleads for , which himself professes he hath been an eye witnesse of , and known to be the constant practise of many ministers for many yeares together , when yet he never saw nor heard of any sprinkled , to be more suitable to the word then sprinkling , but mr. cook is so earnest for the way of sprinkling , as the most excellent and pertinent way , that if we may judge his meaning by his words , he thinks dipping doth set forth the things signified but by the halves in comparison of it ; why else doth he say sprinkling is as ( if not more ) agreeable to the nature of the sacrament as dipping . mr. blake grants not a necessity , but an expediency at least in dipping more then sprinkling , yet is silent towards them , & sides exceedingly against us with them , that are both against us and himself too for sprinkling as more evpedient then dipping : what reason he hath so to do is worth his earnest examination , he grants that in baptism we are planted into the likenesse of christs death , and made partakers of his resurrection , he grants , and mr. cook cannot deny it , that de facto there is a proportion and similitude of christs death , burial and resurrection , by which we are dead to sin and rise to righteousnesse , held in the way of dipping , and in that respect i am perswaded judges dipping in his conscience more expedient then that of sprinkling , yet will no more then mr. cook himself allow , but denyes us the liberty to argue that by duty , necessity or institution , there ought to be de jure any ceremony to resemble it : what little reason he hath so to do will appear easily , and without further proof to himself , who grants so far , if he consider that t is duty , and necessary for us necessitate praecepti ) by command , commission and institution from christ , to do that ever that is most commodious and expedient ; and whether it be not most expedient , and more then expedient too , to resemble the death and resurrection of christ , and ours with him in baptism , and whether dipping be not more expedient then sprinkling , or any other way , and more pertinent to represent all those things , which are signifyed and are to be resembled in the ordinance of baptism , will fall under our examination by and by , when we come to consider what the things are that are specially signified in baptism , and how requisite it is that they be also represented in it . in the mean time let it be considered what is granted and denyed by mr. cook of whom i may truly say so little do i ken what the man means by it , that he both grants us full as much as we desire , and yet denies us too no lesse then every thing we would have ; denying indeed , to the contradiction of himself , the very self same things that yet he grants : the truth is i know not what to call it but confusion , nor find i a way how to reconcile some parts of it to the rest , so full of variance it is within it self : one while he grants , asserts and argues the same in general that we do , viz. that the spiritual grace , or thing signified in baptism is , and ought to be represented , or resembled in that outward sign , and that respect is to be had that the outward element of water , which is to signifie the spiritual thing be used , as to the quantity of it , though not further , yet so far as may be sufficient to its end , which end ( saith he mark his phrase in this passage p. ) is to represent ( which is as much as to say to resemble , or lively to set out to our eyes ) that spiritual grace or thing signifyed , and that it be not so little as not clearly to represent it ; yea and which is more , and as much as we say our selves he grants , and asserts it for undoubted truth that the spiritual grace , or thing signified by baptism is ( among other things ) a death and resurrection : for who questions ( saith he p. . ) but our justification and sanctification or remission of sins together with mortification and vivification ( which is as much as to say those two parts of our sancti●ication , viz. our spiritual death and resurrection ) are sealed and signifyed by baptism , i. e. are the spiritual grace of it . also p. . these scriptures viz. rom. . coll. . shew indeed ( saith he ) that the end of our baptism is to seal our communion with christ in his death and resurrection , by which vve are dead to sin and raised again to holinesse . and in all this he sides so sourdly with us , and jumps so just into our opinion , that if we did hire him to speak our mind for us to the world , we could scarce desire him to propound it more plainly than he doth , bating only his stiling baptism by the name of a seal , instead of which i wish he would call it only a sign : yea he gives us all that in this case we contend for from those scriptures , viz. that the spiritual grace or thing signified in baptism is to be therein also represented , and that our death and resurrection by vertue of christs is that thing that is signified there , or that spiritual grace the signifying of which other things not excluded ) is the chief end of our baptism . otherwhiles again he gain saies this grant , speaking of it suppositively onely as page . if ( saith he ) it should be granted that a representation and resemblance of christs death , burial and resurrection is set before us in baptism , and so of our death to sin and rising again to holinesse , as if he were never the man that had granted , as you see he doth , or ever would grant , or give way to such a thing , and not only so , but as if he were loath , and half angry that any man should speak the truth but himself , or the same truth with himself , he charms a. r. and little lesse then charges him as a lyar , and in him consequently us all , for saying no other then what ( if you put his sayings together ) he saies himself , which is this , viz. that our mortification and vivification by vertue of christs death and resurrection is the spiritual grace or thing signifyed , and that respect or care must be had in the administration of it , that the quantity of water be sufficient clearly to represent the spiritual grace [ but how that can be without enough to be buried in water and raised again , what ere he thinks i know not ] but if you vvill , saith he , presse hence a necessity of resemblance of christs death , buriall and resurrecti - by our descending into , abiding in , and comming up out of the water , take heed least you be of those that adde to gods word ; least he reprove you as a lyar , and adde unto you the plagues written in his book , for i know not any word of god , wherein this representation is necessarily implyed , much lesse expressed . thus whereas he saies elsewhere , as i have shewed above , that the end of baptism was to represent the spiritual grace as well as signify it , and that the spiritual grace , or thing signified , and to be cleerly represented is mortification and vivification , or communion with christs death and resurrection ( which things t is strange he should say against the word of god , for he protests it to be against the word when we say it , and if there be any word expressing or implying a representation , which himself so much talks on , i am sure there is none like those two which we produce , viz. rom. . col. . which most lively shew it , as i shall shew anon , and undeniably declare ) yet here in the passage last cited , he that talks of this representation , and resemblance of christs death and resurrection , and ours with him , as needful to be made in baptism , is a lyar with him and an adder to the word , which warrants no where to presse a resemblance of the thing signified in the dispensation of the outward sign , no not so much as in those scriptures rom . col. . so this representation in baptism is with him it seems a matter that must be , and yet must not be , and yet must be . and yet for all this ( which is the wonder of me , and will be of many more , but specially of every wise man , that hath his wits about him , and would have bin of mr woodcock too , who without taking notice of any weaknesse in it , extoll'd the book in the beginning of it , and put it forth to sir iohn burgoines patronage , had he well weighed these passages of it ) mr. cook wheeles about once again , and will needes have a representation and resemblance of the thing signified by baptism in the manner of administration of it , and argues stiffely for it to , but the representation must be of what he pleases among the things signified , and not of the main thing signifyed in baptism , it must be of sanctification as t is called a washing a cleansing , a purging , a pouring of the spirit on us , a sprinkling of the blood of christ on us , and so be done by sprinkling water : but not as it stands divided into its two parts mortification and vivification , a death and resurrection : or else if there must be a resemblance of this death and resurrection in baptism , then by an as for example fetcht from the old world , that was drowned , dead , buried by an infusion of water , not an immersion , and from the ark which was rained upon only , and not overwhelmed , this death and resurrection must needs , and may better be resembled by an infusion and sprinkling then by total immersion or dipping in water , for if we urge to have the death and resurrection resembled by dipping . i. e. a descension into the water , and ascention out of the water , which we all know was the way of christs and the eunuchs baptism , we must urge also burial , which is principally expressed . rom. . col. . to be resembled too , by biding of the whole man under the water for some time , answerable to christs three daies biding in the bowels of the earth , which cannot be without danger , quoth he , yea certainty of drowning : and if sprinkling should not so fitly resemble as dipping and plunging , yet the scripture no where requires the washing of the whole body , to all which i answer . resp. . which thing of his called sprinkling of water on the face , for all he saies it may as well or better ( sith so many were of old killed and buried by sprinkling , or raining on them in the daies of noah ) serve to resemble our death , and burial then dipping does , yet in truth resembles a death , burial , and resurrection , little more then a knock o' th' pate . secondly , which drowning of the old world , as it would make not a jot for such a purpose as he pleads for , had it been by such a way as he dreames it was by viz. sprinkling , raining on them , by infu●ion and not immersion , yet in very deed ( and so hee l see , when he is awake , and his eyes are open ) was by immersion immediately , and not infusion , for it might have rained long enough upon the earth , before the men that had houses to shelter themselves in from that , would have bin killed , and buried under water , if the waters had not prevailed by a flood so high over the earth , as to overwhelm the men under it , and plunge them ore head and ears : and if he call that sprinkling and infusion , let him sprinkle or infuse water in such abundance , till the water sprinkled or infused , become of such depth about the parties he is about to sprinkle , as to swell ore their heads , and to swill them wholly under it , and i shall own such infusion for right baptism , yet none of christs ordinance neither , unlesse dispenst to a right subject i. e. babes or beginners in the faith . thirdly , which elegant allusion of his to the ark , as that on which water was onely powred or sprinkled , whence he seemes to argue thus viz. that it rained onely on the ark , or water was onely powred or sprinkled upon the ark , which ark was a type of baptism , ergo , baptism must be dispenst by sprinkling , is as simple a delusion as ever was devised , for if he intend that for an argument to prove that baptism is to be done by sprinkling ( and if not what does it there ? ) it does rather conclude that baptism must be sprinkled as the ark was , for reduce his matter into the form of a syllogism , and see how sillily it concludes viz. thus the ark was a type of baptism . but the ark was only sprinkled with the rain , not dipt . ergo , baptism its antitype , is to be dispenst by sprinkling . he concludes more ●hen he can possibly squeeze out from those premises , and another thing then what is asserted of the ark in his minor : whereas in right form it should run thus . the ark typified baptism . but the ark was rained on , baptized or wetted by infusion onely . ergo baptism must be rained on , baptized or wetted by infusion onely . but then what simple stuff were this ? what a logical lump of artificial non-sense ? besides , if it would follow that because the ark which was a type of baptism was sprinkled , therefore the way of baptism is sprinkling , it would more truly follow that because the ark was half dipt and half sprinkled , one part of it being under the water , another sprinkled with rain aboue the water , therefore the way of baptism is to dip one half of the person , and to sprinkle the other half : but alas the ark was a type of baptism , as t was the way and outward meanes of salvation , but not in this respect as it was rained on : nullum simile currit quatuor . fourthly , which washings , purgings , sprinklings of christs blood , and clean water typified of old , and foreshadowed by the blood of calves and goats , with water and scarlet wool , and hysop , wherewith moses and the high priests after him sprinkled the old israel , so that they were typically and ceremonially counted holy , and clean thereupon in a fleshly sense onely , are all expressions spoken not with such allusion to baptism ( as mr. cook imagines ) nor are so neer a kin to it as he laies claim to : for if they are all to be resembled and respected by us in our baptism , as things some way or other signified to us therein , yet are they not at all the main , or principall things , or such as are immediately , or primarily , but onely remotely , and secondarily signified to us therein , and so not necessarily to be either all , or at all so much resembled as something else : but the death , burial and resurrection of christ , which is the rise and root , the originall and meritorious cause of all the rest , being that which ( though you would shut it out altogether from its interest and right of being represented in baptism of all the rest ) is mainly and most immediately signified , and primarily to be eyed , and respected , and all the rest but consequently , and through that , therefore its necessary that this should be resembled most lively , that it may take the deeper impression upon us . yea these matters of christs death , burial , and resurrection are such cardinall things to be considered , as quibus non mediantibus , without the mediation of which we cannot conceive clearly , nor lay claim to any of the other as ours . for as in the supper remotely heaven it self , and all spirituall excellencies are signified to us to be ours , yet all the things signified cannot be represented to the eye , but onely such as are the more immediate significations of it , and are the rise and proper cause of all the rest , viz. christ crucified , and our feeding on him by faith , the seare , and are to be lively set forth unto us , and resembled before our eyes in bread and wine broken , and powred out and received and applied to us , but not all the fruits of his dea●h and our faith ▪ even so it is likewise in baptism ; and indeed the main signification in both is christs person crucified , dead , buried , and raised , and that is to be resembled in both , and other things viz. the benefits of his death as remission of sins , and purging , &c. to be consequentially gathered from that , neither can , nor are , nor need all those to be resembled : but as for mr. cook he pleads stifly to have all these resembled viz. washing , purging , powring , sprinkling of the spirit and blood of christ , but excludes the main thing altogether viz. christs death and resurrection , which are the very rise and ground of all those : and yet if he will needs have all those to be resembled , are they not as much , and much more resembled by dipping and plunging a person in water , then by powring and sprinkling a little water upon him ? and is not swilling under water a more effectuall way of washing and clensing then sprinkling ? which though it be a diminutive way of wetting , yet in truth is no way of washing at all : if therefore he will have washing , and such a washing as well deserves the name of clensing to be resembled in baptism , can he have even that done in a better way then by dipping ▪ or dousing ? for verily plunging , is a washing , and a more eminent way of washing , and purifying , and so more lively resembling ablutionem peccatorum the purging away our sinnes by the blood of christ , then aspersion , or bare infusion , either of which without some after rubbing is a way of washing and clensing seldome used by men or women , unlesse it be among flatternes that are minded to leave things as foul well nigh as they find them : and i am sure there 's no rubbing succedaneous to your sprinkling , which is any ingredient to your dispensation , for what the priest drops on the midwife rubs indeed , not on , but off , and so as that is no washing , so ( if it were ) i hope you do not allow the midwife to give equal influence with the priest unto the dispensation of baptism . besides , both sprinkling and powring are vertualy implied in plunging , and burying in water , but these are not at all supposed in the other , every lesser wetting being contained , and included in the greater , not so the greater in the lesse . fiftly , which quirk of his concerning a necessity of abiding . daies under water answerable to christs daies buriall , if we will needs urge an necessity of resembling him in his death , burial and resurrection , is so fond , that a fool may find enough wherewith to refel it , for mr. cook knows that nullum simile currit quatuor , no similitude answers in all things , besides t is the truth and substance of the thing , not the circumstance , or quantity of time of abode , which is to be respected here , for a burial is as true a burial , when a person abides but . minutes wholly under the element , wherein he is buried , as if he abode . daies , and a burial is as truly represented by being once under water , as if one continued under altogether , and the resurrection a little better by being brought up again alive , then if one lay till he were altogether dead . sixthly and lastly , which assertion of his , uttered in favour of his assertion viz. that the scripture no where requires the washing of the whole body , is so much the more savouring of either ignorance , or forgetfulnesse in him , or both , by how much one of the very scriptures , that are quoted by himself , as speaking in reference to baptism , doth require it , for its said heb. . . let us draw neer with a true heart &c. and having our bodies washed with pure water , which clause ( if meant of baptism as undoubtedly it is ) requires not a sprinkling , but a washing ( and that 's more then your sprinkling is ) and this too not of the face only , which is the only part you sprinkle , but of our bodies ; which word whether we shall take properly to signifie the whole body indeed , or run to figurative acceptations , when we need not , and take the body by a synechdoche of the whole for a part to signifie so small a part as the face only , i need not wish a wise man to determine , for every unprejudiced man that hath but common sense will see cause enough to take it plainly as it lies . rantist . but all this while me thinks you make it appear so plainly as you not must , before i believe or receive it , that it is so needful as you would make it that there should be a resemblance of the thing signified in that sign of baptism at all , that 's the thing i wait to see proved ; for let mr. cook make what suppositions and grants he will of a resemblance , yet i see no reason at all to urge a necessity of such a thing , nor will i speak so much as ex hypothesi , if there must be , for none need be ●or ought i know . what i hope there are an hundred signes of things , which have not any analogy at all with those things they signifie . baptist. having thus blown away the strange mist , whereby mr. cook endeavoured to thicken the air , so that men might not discern clearly the true intent of those scriptures rom. . col. . nor the truth at all in this point of total dipping ▪ i come now in answer to his and your , and mr. blakes flat denial of any word or warrant for any representation , and also to his demand p. . to shew how we gather from reason , and your own authors , and those very sciptures you oppose , the diping of the whole man over the head , and under the water , and that a similitude of christs death , burial and rising again to be represented by dipping into the water is signified there . but first , i must tell you i observe you know not greatly what to say among you against our urgings of a resemblance of christs death , and burial , and resurrection from these scriptures : for some of you stand it out , as much as you well can , that there is not to be any representation of a death and resurrection , as dr. featley and mr. cook both do , the dr. keeping at such a distance from it , that to fence it farr enough from him he denies any such thing to be so much as signified , mr. cook yielding that that very thing among others is signified , and that the spiritual grace or thing signified is to be represented too , only you must excuse him as to that piece of the spiritual grace , all the rest but that he will give way to have resembled , but fearing least it can hardly be so cleerly evaded , but that t wil needs be proved against them that a death , burial and resurrection must be represented , they fall a proving it that there may be , and is a death burial and resurrection reselmbled in their way of sprinkling , and infusion , as much ( if not more then in our way of dipping ) but either of them shift for themselves in severall wayes , the drs way wherein he proves there is a resemblance of death and resurrection in the manner of baptism , as it is administred in the church of england is this , though the child be not dipped in water himself ( saith he ) yet the minister dippeth his hand in water und plucketh it out again when he baptizeth the infant , where note , that the doctor doth conceive that though sprinkling may serve to represent a death and resurrection , as well as our dipping , yet it is upon this absurd account viz. in that there is a certain dipping accompanies their sprinkling , whereby that resemblance is made viz. the divping the hand of the administrator : but mr. cook though he be not so gross as to imagine with the dr. that the burying of the ministers hand wi●l serve instead of burying the persons body , which is , if any burial be at all , to be buried in baptism , yet he is as grosse in his conception another way , while he goes about to prove sprinkling , or infusion it self to resemble a death burial and resurrection as sufficiently as dipping , and this too by such a coined chymaera , such a crude and immature imagination as is ridiculous , viz. of the old worlds being drowned and buried by no more then sprinkling , and the fall of rain : for verily neither was the rain a resemblance of a death , burial and resurrection , or any thing like thereto : nor yet was it the rain but the overflowing of waters by reason of the rain that drowned them , and though that orewhelming was a lively emblem of death and burial , as baptism is to be , yet there was nothing that resembled a resurrection , as in baptisme there must be , sith they never rose from under it any more . this crooked come off therefore of mr. cooks is ●arre more ridiculous then rational , and yet i know more men of his mind in this particular , i mean so far as to agree to it , with lesse ado then he doth , that a death , burial and resurrection is to be resembled in baptism , and yet to think that the sprinkling or casting water upon the party doth sufficiently make that resemblance ▪ but i testify to him that this his way is his folly , and theirs also that approve his sayings , and i advise both him and them that adhere to him to be heartily ashamed of two opinions of his , so equally odd and absurd that i can scarce tell well which of the two are more absurd then the other . the one is his supposition that the spiritual grace to be represented and resembled in the manner of administration of that ordinance of baptism is sprinkling , besprinkling with the blood of christ , whence in order thereto he as unworthily argues , that baptism must be dispensed by sprinkling , which indeed nullifies it from being baptism , if he consider the inconsistency that is proved to be between them . the other is the thing in hand , viz. his supposition that sprinkling may well not only signify , but resemble a death , burial and resurrection as well as dipping , and is as well required , for so he hints p. . to be used in this sacrament as the other . if those , who own these things , and whose own they are , will not be ashamed of them , for my part i am , for to think that the wisdome of the spirit , that in condescension to our dull capacities did leave visible signs to be not only true remembrances , but also lively resemblances of spiritual things , should order things so unsuitably to sense , as to require and appoint matters utterly unlike one another , and between which there is no analogy at all to answer one the other by way of resemblance , viz. such a thing as rantism to resemble a death , burial and resurrection , which are to be , and are truly resembled all in true baptism , i. e. in dipping , or appoint such an ordinance as baptism , which in plain english is dipping , to resemble rantism only , or sprinkling with christs blood is no lesse the absurdity in the abstract . but as for you your self , you are it seems of mr. blakes mind , i. e. resolved to own no necessity at all of any resemblance of any thing , nor of any ceremony to be in the sign of baptism , representing the things signifyed in it , i shall therefore shew that as in true baptism , i. e. dipping , there is de facto , and that mr blake confesses , so there ought to be de jure a proportion and resemblance of the death and resurrection of christ , and of ours with him in that ordinance : whereas therefore you say that all signes do not represent the thing signified thereby , t is true who questions that ? but t will not therefore follow , but that there are some signs that both do , and may and by institution must not only signify , but also resemble at least the main things that are signified , of which sort baptism is without question one . we must here thefore distinguish concerning signes , among which some are natural , which by nature signify the things , whereof they are signs , as smoak signifies that there is fire , as we say there is no smoak but its a sig● there is some fire , a red and louring morning a sign of a foul day . others praeter-natural and institutive , which by institution signify the things whereof they are signes , and this either by humane appointment , as the ivy-bush is a sign among men tha● wine is to be sold , where it hangs , or divine , as the rainbow is a sign by divine appointment to signify that the world shall never be wholly drowned again by water : and these signes by divine institution are either such as are simpliciter signantia , meerly and simply significative of the things they signifie without any analogy , or likenesse to them at all , as the rainbow , which signifies , but resembles not the worlds deliverance from drowning , and the dew , and drought that were by turnes on gideons fleece , which were signes to him of it , but not resemblances of his victory , and the shadowes going back upon the dial of ahaz , which was a sign to hezekiah , but not a resemblance of his recovery , and such like . or else such as are sign●ntia et similantia simis ' , having in them the signification and similitude of the things signified together : and of this sort are all those signs which you commonly , but not properly call seals also viz. the sacraments , whether those of the old , or those of the new testament , viz. circumcision , and the passeover , baptism and the supper , from the manner of the administration of the two first of which you use to argue to the manner of the administration of the two last , which so far , but no further then serves your turnes you say came in the room of the other ; for though by way of analagy with circumcision , as comming in the room thereof , you would have baptisme dispensed to infants , yet neither anallogically to males onely , nor on the th day onely , nor to male servants also , nor yet by way of analogy with the passover , which admitted of every circumcisied soul , will you admit baptized infants to the supper , which came by institution more truly , and immediately in the room of the passeover , even when it was moriturum , if not plane mortuum ? for it was no more to be meddled with for ever , whereas circumcision was in use de jure after baptism was begun . but i pray sirs be not pickers and chusers thus at your own pleasure , but if you will have an analogy to be held , let it be in such things , wherein it should be held between the old testament sacraments and the new . an argument however ad hominem i. e. sufficient to confute you out of your own mouthes , who plead so for analogy between those two administrations of the old testament , and these two of the new arises naturally from your own opinions , for if a proportion must needs be kept between circumcision and baptism in point of administration otherwise , why not in the manner of the administration of these signes , as they stand in reference to the things thereby signified , so as that the one of these signes viz. baptism , may stand in some proportion to its signatum , as well as the other i. e. circumcision ? the pascal lamb without blemish , a bone of which was not to be broken , did not onely signifie , but lively resemble also agnum immaculatum exhibendum , that lamb christ iesus , which was once to be offered without spot to god , and not a bone of him to be broken , also the supper that came after it doth not onely signifie , but resemble also agnum exhibitum , christ crucified , that immaculate lamb now offered , whose body was broken and blood shed , by bread broken and wine powred forth . circumcision or cutting off the superfluous foreskin of the flesh did not only signify , but lively represent the signatum , the circumcision o● the heart , i. e. sanctification , the paring off , and putting away the fleshly superfluities of the heart , and can you give us think you , or give your selves either any good account , why baptism onely of all the rest should be exempted in this case , from bearing semlably with the rest an analogy , proportion and similitude to its signatum , i. e. the thing mainly notifyed therein ? which originally is the death , burial and resurrection of christ , and our communion therewith , and plantation into the likenesse thereof : is not the manner of administration of that to be such also , as may resemble ( and so onely the way of dipping doth ) a death , buriall , and resurrection ? rouse up and reckon but with your consciences a little , and see if they will tell you otherwise , if they do they give the ly ( and that you who deify your orthodox divines will be loath to do ) to all divines both antient and modern , who so far as i find ( except onely mr. blake ) do teach us that the end of all the institutions of the old and new testament , to which you allow the name of sacraments , are ex instituto , to resemble as well as signify their signifyed objects . kekerman referres a●l the sac●aments to the signes of that sort that do signifie cum analogia , i. e. that bear a likenesse to the things signifyed , system . log . p. . . calvin and vrsin , that are men of much note in your account , are thus opinioned both , as you may see in the institutions of the one , and the catechism of the other , whether we are directed by you for sufficient furniture for infants baptisme . calvin saies thus of the sacraments : institutionum lib. . cap. . sect . . a the sacraments of the old testament , did tend to the very same end , and purpose , as ours now do , namely that they might direct and lead us , as it were , by the hand to christ , or rather that they might represent him as certain images or pictures , and set him forth to us to be known . vrsins catechism saies no lesse , but much more , and that much more plainly to this purpose , and what is spoken there too is not spoken as the opinion of pareus or vrsin onely , but as the mind of one , that may be more taking with you then any of these , viz. saint austin , who is stiled malleus hereticorum , one that mauld the hereticks in his daies , who also is fainted up in so many pages of your ashford pamphlet , that you cannot for shame unfaint him so far , as not to believe him , but to rehearse a little what is there said , in the . . pages of that book : after mention made of the promise of the gospel you may find these words , viz. b that promise that is given us in the word god doth more plainly declare to us by the sacraments , namely by that likenesse which is between the signs and those things which are signified ; as a picture or image declares that of which it is the image , for when the picture is understood , that even that of which it is the picture is made cleer , and verily farre more cleer then without a picture : and as a true picture is not well understood , if the likenesse or lively resemblance of the picture be not observed , so neither are the sacraments , unlesse the likenesse of the outward signes , and things thereby signified be understood : in this sense the appollogy of the augustinian confession , doth divers times call the sacraments by the name of pictures . and again p. . shewing wherein the sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified consists , it stands ( saith he ) in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vel similitudine signorum cum rebus signatis , in the analogy and likenesse that is between the signes and things signified . and then he goes on quoting austin thus . de qua agustinus , si inquit sacramenta quandam similitudinem earum rerum quarum sacramenta sunt , non haberent , omnino s●cramenta non essent , and then again p. . speaking of those sacramental locutions ( as you call them ) whereby the sign is oft called by the name of the thing signified , and said to do , and be that , which onely the thing signified is , and doth in truth , this ( saith he ) is by a sacramental metonimy , and the meaning of it is not that one is changed really into the other , but because the sign doth so lively resemble the thing signified : next to which he cites again the very same sentence out of austin , which is rehearsed in latin just above , together with somewhat more , all which i english thus viz. if the sacraments should not have in them some likenesse to the things , whereof they are sacraments they could not be sacraments at all , but by reason of this likenesse , it comes often to passe that they bear the very names of the things they resemble . by the way i cannot but take notice what an argument here is against infants baptism , as well as against the form of rantism , for if true baptism must resemble , as well as signifie , to the very eyes , and so mediante oculo to the understanding and minds of persons , to whom it s dispensed , is it possible for that baptism that was dispenst in infancy to represent lively and cleerly to my sense and reason , when i am at years , the things therein signified ? for to call that a sign , much more a lively resemblance of a thing before our eyes ( so buchau saies of baptism , ante oculos objicit ) which we never saw at all , or if we did , t was when we could not apprehend it , and so long since that we necessarily , and universally forget it , and that so farre that our fancy can never possibly recollect that outward appearance of those inward things , is no better then meer childishnesse , and very vanity to me . rantist . this shewes indeed that t was the opinion of these reverend men , that there ought to be of necessity as cleer a resemblance as may be of the thing signified in the administration of the outward , and visible sign in all sacraments , or else they are no sacraments , but that is nothing binding to us without some good ground out of scriptures to believe it , therefore le ts see it appear from thence , and if you will from the scriptures you began upon rom. . col. . in which i see nothing on which you can ground , that in baptism there must be visibly , and representatively a death , burial and resurrection , though i grant all these are signifyed thereby . baptist. i rejoice much to see you renounce that implicit faith , whereby you have formerly lived , it may be more upon the mouth of calvin , vrsin , austin , and other authors , then on the mouth of peter and paul , or the mouth of christ himself in his word ; neither do i urge any thing out of these authors to be taken upon trust without trial , yet prove what they say however in this point , and hold it fast too , if by the word you find it to be good . i come therefore to consider that which first occasioned all this discourse , and to see if such a matter as a death , burial and resurection of christ , be not here expressed , or at least implyed , neither of which yet is granted by mr. cook or mr. blake as things to which true baptism is to bear some resemblance , and here let me tell you though you and the rest are engaged to make the best of your rantism , now you see it questioned , and have begun in the face of the world to defend it , will sooth men up , and tell them there is none but the anabaptists gather that there must be a representation of death , burial and resurrection from those places , and such like , yet we are not alone in our assertions even from those places , that these are to be resembled : for some that wrote impartially upon the places , rom. . col. . even of your own way before the matter came so much in question , have shewed their sense therof to be the same with ours , as concerning the representation of all these ; witnesse one mr. thomas wilson , who in an exposition of his upon rom. . declares from the and verses thereof in this manner . that baptism is a pledge of our sanctification in all the parts of it thus , the death of sin ( saith he ) is effectually represented by the water cast on us at our baptism ( though by his favor , who was i perceive of mr. cooks conceit that infusion might serve turn , not half so effectually as by the water overwhelming us ) the burial of sin by our being under the water , and by our comming out of the water our arising out of our sins to a better life through the power of the holy spirit applying christs death and burial for the beating down of our corrupt nature , and his resurrection for our quickening to godlinesse of living . thus he , neither is he alone in this sense upon these places , but most , if not all modern writers , that do purposely , or but occasionally touch upon these places , as calvin , vrsin , paraeus , tilenus , zanky , &c. do fully agree with him in this particular , viz. that the lively resemblance of christs death , burial and resurrection , and of ours with him , that is to be held forth in the administration of baptism , is among other things signified in those scriptures , and do with him expound the words baptized in his death , buried with him in baptism into death , wherein yee are also risen with him &c. not of the things signified only , viz. our mortification of sin and rising to holinesse in a way of likeness to christs death and resurrection , but also of the o●tward right and form of administration of the sign it self , to be done in a way of likenesse to them both , so that we by that ( as by an image or lively resemblance ) may not only be kept in a lively remembrance of the matter of them , but may bear the manner of those matters also in our minds . thus calvin l. . c. . s. . alterum fructum affert baptismus qui nostram in christo mortificationem ostendit , &c. id est , another fruit of baptism is this , it sets forth our death to sin in christ and our new life in him , fitly , as the gosspel saith rom. . . we are baptized into his death , and buried with him in baptism into death that we might walk in a new life . by which words he doth exhort us to an imitation of him , as if he should say we are admonished by baptism , that by a resemblance of christs death , we should dy to our lusts , and by the example of his resurrection , we should rise to righteousness &c. also l. . c. . s. . speaking against such as say ( no more then truth though ) baptismum esse sepulturam , in quam nulli nisi jam mortui tradendi sunt , id est , that baptism is a form or way of burial with which none , but such as are i. e. appear to be already dead to sin , or to have repented from their dead works are to be buried . and that he might vindicate infants who yet in infancy cannot dy to sin , or repent from dead works , tells us ( but believe him who will in that . ) nos jam ante mortuos per baptismum sepeliri , id est , that persons are to be buried in baptism , before they be dead , before they repent , or appear to have died to sin , and to prove that , he cotes this very place rom . . which the scripture ( saith he ) deserte reclamet , nos ea conditione in mortem sepeliri , ut emoriamur ac mortificationem istam exinde meditemur , i. e. very elegantly proclaims the contrary , namely , that we are buried in baptism into death , on this very condition , that we may die to sin , and may even by that outward visible burial we have in baptism be minded of the duty of mortification . which exposition is the truth , yet not the whole truth , nor yet so much as serves the turn mr. calvin brings it for : t is true we are baptized into death , or buried in baptism in token that we must , and on this condition that we shall dy to sin , yet not only so , but also in token , and on condition that we are dead in a measure , or have repented already ; nor doth it follow because we are buried in baptism , that we may , and in token that we must die more , and more to sin , that therefore we are to be buried in baptism before we die to sin , for we are to repent before baptism and after it also . but however the truth that is in it is enough to serve our turn at present , i. e. to prove his judgement and ours to jump together , as to the true intent and meaning of those phrases in the text , viz. buried with him in baptism into death , which both hee and we take to expresse the outward rite of baptism , and that that outward rite be performed answerably to the name here given it in manner and form of a burial , which cannot be without submersion , and this too in token , and as a resemblance of our death to sin and burial with christ , the signatum or thing signifyed and resembled , which whether it go before or come with or after the sign is not material . and though mr. calvin and we are twain and cannot agree whether we are to be baptized , i. e. buried in baptism before we are dead to sin or after , yet herein we meet in one with all other expositors on this place so far as i find ( mr cook and mr. blake only excepted ) viz. that whether mortui or morituri we ought to be buried in baptism according to this place , not spiritually only , for that is the inward thing signifyed into which , i. e. in token and resemblance of which we are outwardly buried , but visibly and representatively also in the ceremony . much what to the same purpose speaks calvin again about three or four pages after , ' where coting both the places we are now in hand with , viz. romans . . col. . ▪ he expounds the words buried with christ in baptism of the verity of the outward rite it self , representing and betokening the spiritual death to sinne that ought to follow it . paraeus also upon vrsin p. . speaking how baptism is a token not only of remission of sin , but regeneration also , which he makes so synonimous with our death and burial with christ that he cotes these these two places rom. . , col. . . to prove regeneration to be signifyed in it , ( for we are said ( saith he ) to dy and to be buryed with christ in baptism ) gives this as one reason why we are said to be regenerated that is , in his sence , dead and buried with christ in baptism , because of the likenesse that is between baptism and those things : so that he also takes the phrase buried with christ in that place to sound forth sepelitionem externam internae simulacrum , that external act of being buried in water by baptism , that is the lively embleme of the internal . zanchy also upon col. . . writes thus viz. regenerationis duae sunt partes &c. of regeneration there are two parts mortification and vivification , that is called burial with christ , this resurrection with christ , the sacrament of both these is baptism , in which we are overwhelmed or buried , and after that do come forth and rise again ; it may be said truly but sacramentally of all that are baptized that they are buried with christ and raised with him , yet really only of such as have true faith . now i appeal to all men whether he do not here expound paul in the words buried with him in baptism and therein risen with him as speaking of the outward rite of baptism whereby the spiritual death and resurrection is resembled , yea and so lively resembled that even such as have no more then the bare outward sign of water in baptism without the thing signifyed may be said , though sacramentally , i. e , and analogically and in respect of neer resemblance yet truly to be buried and raised with christ , this cannot be said of them that are but rantized onely , for if in respect of any mortification and vivification they may be denominated buried and raised with christ , yet that outward rite and ceremony cannot of it self denominate them so much as sacramentally buried and raised with christ , for there is not so much as any likenesse of such things in it , but he that hath the true outward rite of baptism , i. e. dipping dispensed to him may be truly said to be buried and raised with christ , though he have no more , for he hath the same visible overwhelming , and burying in water and raising again in baptism , which in the bare ordinance of baptism christ himself had . bucan also that famous professor of theology though he were so far benighted , by being no doubt accustomed to sprinkling , that he saw not the difference that is between it and dipping so far , but that he supposed one might serve as well as the other , yet cotes this sixt of the rom. . and . to prove the analogy that is between the sign and the thing signifyed in baptism in his question in page . quae est analogia & convenientia signi et rei signatae in baptismo ? optima , &c. saith he . what is that analogy and agreement which is between the sign and the thing signifyed in baptism ? most apt , forasmuch as in the same manner as the water washes the body , and clenses it from bodily impurities , so the blood of christ by its merits washes away our sins and spiritual impurities , and his spirit sanctifyes us . moreover that immersion into water or aspersion doth most clearly denote rantismon the sprinkling of the blood of christ in order to remission of sins , and imputation of righteousnesse ; but the abode ( quantumvis momentanea , quantula cunque saith tilenus ) though never so small ( so that both these confute mr cooks fancy of a necessity of daies abode under water ; if we will have christs burial represented ) lively denotes the death & burial of our corruption by vertue of the death & burial of christ , that is , the mortification of the old man , but the rising out of the water doth most anal●gically as it were object unto our eyes the resurrection of the new man or our vivification , and newnesse of life and also our resurrection at the last day : see how this man , saving that he shuffles in aspersion and immersion as nothing differing , doth own immersion into water , abode under it , rising out of it as the most admirable way of analogy to signifie and resemble what ever was to be resembled in baptism ; again in his question p. . he quotes rom. . . saying with allusion to that scripture that predicatione sacramentali we are said in baptism to die , to be buried , to be raised with christ , and that baptism confirmes our faith in these things , because it doth pingere mortem &c. plainly paint out the death , burial and resurrection of christ , and therein is documentum &c. a certain lesson of our renovation , and resurrection . now the reason of all such sacramentall locution , whereby the things signified are said to be done in the outward sign , is ( saith paraeus ) analogia signi et rei signatae , tale enim quiddam est res significata in suo genere , quale quiddam est signum in suo genere &c. the likenesse that is between the outward sign and the thing signified , for such as the thing signified is in its kind , just such a thing the sign is in its kind for as the water washes away the filth of the flesh , so christs blood our sinnes , and in such a manner as the sign is outwardly dispensed , so inwardly the thing signified , as the minister acts without , so god within &c. as therefore god within by the power of christs death and resurrection mortifies , buries to sin , and raises us to righteousnesse , so must not the administrator without semblably bury the person in water in baptism unto death and raise him again unto life ? or in token of his resurrection to a new life ? if not where is then the analogie ? and if no analogie why are we said sacramentally in baptism to be buried , and raised ? sith the cause of all such sacramental locution is because the sacraments are ( as austin saies ) pictures of the things signified in them ? or is aspersion an action as answerable to a burial and resurrection , and painting it out as lively as submersion and emersion do ? hic murus ahaeneus esto , this i know ( as sorry a shift as it is ) must be your most inmost shelter , when all is done for it can never be with any colour of reason , nor is it by any reasonable men , that i know , save mr. cook and mr. blake , denied but that baptism must exinstituto , according to the word , yea that word rom. , col. . bear analogy to , and the image of the thing signified , yea and that very thing of all the rest , which are represented therein viz. a death , burial and resurrection by being under water , and brought out of it again , though by all that sprinkle t is most heedlessely thought , and therefore as senselessely taught that rantism , i. e. aspersion sets forth those to the life , as much as baptism i. e. immersion or overwhelming . among the rest that write of baptism with any allusion to those scriptures we are yet in hand with , what learned tilenus saith is worth your animadversion , i confesse the man , though in his judgement he seem clear for our manner of baptizing by immersion , submersion , and emersion , as that which was the onely primitive action , and institution , yet is so far benighted by the mist and black vail of implicit faith which hath covered all christendom , as to suppose that aspersion may now serve the turn , and that for sundry reasons some of which are apparently false , and never a one of them worth a straw , which i le repeat and answer as i go ; for saith he ritus in baptismo est triplex , immersio in aquam , mora sub aquâ , et emersio ex aquâ , quam vis autem immersio usitatior olim fuerit presertim in judea , &c. the outward ceremony to be used in baptism is threefold , dipping into the water , abode under the water , and rising out of the water , but howbeit this immersion was the usual way in former times , especially in judea , and other warmer countries , rather then aspersion [ where note that he grants ( and who does not but mr. cook , mr. baxter , and mr. blake , that having once denied it do strenuously resist it ? ) that the primitive way in iudea , and those regions was totall dipping ; ] yet ( saith he ) the circumstance pertaines not to the substance of baptism , [ which is false , for i have proved that to be no baptism that is but sprinkling . ] secondly , and sith the analogy of the sacrament may be held out no lesse in aspersion , then immersion [ which is as false and fond a fantasm as the other , for sprinkling hath no more likenesse in it to a death , a burial and a resurrection ( which though mr. cook and mr. blake deny it , yet tilenus himself abundantly pleads , as i shall shew , and that ex instituto from these scriptures rom. . col. . ought to be represented in baptism ) then it hath likenesse to immersion , submersion , and emersion , and that 's not so much , as is between an apple and a nut . ] thirdly , and sith in legall purifications sufficiebant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sprinklings did suffice [ which if they did , it was be cause these sprinklings with blood of the sacrafices , which were as well on the mercy seat as on the people in token of onenesse or atonement between god and them , were instituted directly , and solely to point out the spiritual sprinkling of christs blood on the mercy seat in heaven , and on us here on earth in token of atonement , which is not the thing onely , mainly , originally , or immediately signified , neither so as that it onely is to be remembred and resembled in baptism , but the truth of the death , burial and resurrection of christ , as the root whence all the other flows , and therefore that reason , though true , yet is nothing to the purpose . ] fourthly , sith immersion [ quoth he ] may indanger the health , specially of such tender infants as are wont to be baptized now a daies , [ which shewes that of old such were not baptized , and that christ never instituted this ordinance for infants , who cannot bear the dispensation of it to them , as it should be by right , without danger of death , but must of necessity , and in charity , and in humane prudence taking upon it to correct the divine wisdome of christ , and modle his ordinances more to their own ease , have another thing i. e. rantism universally dispensed to them instead of it . ] fiftly , sith both these rites viz. sprinkling and dipping are expressed by the name of baptism mat. . . luke . . mark the . . [ then which nothing is more contrary to truth , for though t is true that dipping is stiled baptism in mat. . . the place he brings to prove that ( where note again that christ himself was baptized by submersion ) yet that 's not true that rantism is any where called by the name of baptism ; yea in the very places he uses to prove that viz. luke . mark. . t is most evident that t was more then sprinkling , yea and no lesse then a dipping , that is there called baptism , for t was washing of hands , which if ever any body living saw any , but slovens , wash , when foul , by no more then sprinkling two or three drops of water on them , they have seen more then ever i saw to my remembrance since ever i were born and christned . ] for these forenamed reasons saith tilenus we suppose the church by the law of charity , and necessity may use which of these rites she pleases . by all which it appears that though speculatively he saw submersion to be the way by institution , unlesse out of necessity , and charity the church forbid it , yet practically he was as you are for aspersion , and this makes the more against you in this matter , in that a man that retained sprinkling as you do , sith t is the fashion in these colder climates , should yet be constrained to confesse so much institution as he does for that way of truth , i mean submersion , which we contend for ; for seriously take away the wretched reasons , which flattered him in to speak favorably of sprinkling , he was , as to the true way of total dipping , caetera orthodoxus , as orthodox as we desire him to be . i le bestow the paines of rehearsing what he writes so far as concerns our purpose , in very elogan● latine p. . . . . of his disputations in as plain english as i am able . baptism ( saith he ) is the first sacrament of the new testament instituted by christ , in which with a most pat , and exact analogy between the sign and the thing signifyed , those that are in covenant are by the minister washed in water , the outward rite of baptism is three fold immersion into the water , abiding under the water , and resurrection out of the water : the form of baptism , to wit , internal and essential , is no other then that analogicall proportion which the signes keep with the things signifyed thereby , for as the properties of the water in washing away the defilements of the body do in a most suitable similitude set forth the efficacy of christs blood in blotting out of sins , so dipping into the water doth in a most lively similitude set forth the mortification of the old man , and rising out of the water the vivification of the new : although that levitical rite of sprinkling of blood exod. . . did more grossely resemble the blood of christ , yet that was not so exact a similitude as is in the water of our baptism . that same plunging into the water holds forth to us that horrible gulfe of of divine justice , in which christ for our sins sake , which he took upon him , was for a while in a manner swallowed up . abode under the water how little a while soever ( yet saies mr. cook it must be three daies , answerable to christ three daies burial , or else it answers it not as a true resemblance of it at all ) denotes his descent into hell , even the very deepest degree of lifelessenesse , while lying in the sealed and guarded sepulchre , he was accounted as one truly dead : rising out of water holds out to us a lively simitude of that conquest , which this dead man got over death , which he vanquished in his own den , as it were , that is the grave , in like manner therefore it is meet , that we being baptized into his death , and buried with him , should rise also with him , and so go on in a new life rom. . . . col. . . that these things are signifyed unto us in baptism the very outward rites themselves do teach , for immersion shadowes out to us the pravity of our nature , dying in us , in which our old man dies and is buried with christ , the progresse of which benefit , putting forth its power in us by a little abode under the water points out , even as rising out of the water sets forth a new life , corruption being done away : hence it is that baptism is called the washing of regeneration , and that whereby we are saved titus . . pet. . . namely because what is done outwardly by the body in the sign , the same is truly performed , and confirmed to believers in the soul ; and even therefore both the names , and properties of the sign and the thing signified are very often interchangeably attributed to each other by a sacramentally metonimy . thus saith tilenus in the forecited pages , and some of this he repeats ore again page . . whereby you may guesse that in this his thoughts were well digested . form a baptismi est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saies he sive relatio , &c. the form of baptism is that analogicall relation of the external and earthly , which are the signes , with the heavenly things , or things signifyed : this relation and most lively similitude , that is between them , is the cause why both the names , and the properties of the signes and things signifyed are frequently given to one another by a familiar metonimy of the holy scriptures , wherein baptism is called the washing of regeneration , and is said to save us , saith he , and in this respect also ( say i ) we are said to be buryed and raised in baptism in those places , because of that lively resemblance of and likenesse to a burial and resurrection that ought by institution to be in the dispensation of baptism , and that is in that institution , if practised as ordained by christ. now who would think by all this but that this man had been baptized indeed , i. e. dipped into , buried under , and brought out of the water in his baptism , in remembrance and resemblance of christs death , resurrection and his own with him ? for how does he speak , and that out of these scriptures we are upon , that we ought thus to be baptized ? and these things are exactly exemplified to us saith he , as if he had the lively effigies of all that was done to him in his baptism dwelling indelably in his mind , as if he had been truly buried , and raised visibly in baptism indeed ? and yet behold i believe i may be so bold as to guesse by what he saies in favour of infants sprinkling , and by one thing or other , that he was not baptized all this while , but meerly a rantist , and none of us in practice , though so much for the way of dipping in his discourses . rantist . but quorsum haec ? what mean you by all this quotation of authors . baptist. because damnati lingua vocem habet , vim non habet , the words and constructions of a condemned man , that is prejudged to be a heretick before he is heard , are like to sway but little among his accusers , and therefore i rather chose to convince mr. cook and mr. blake who deny these scriptures either to expresse or imply a representation of death , burial and resurrection to be held forth in baptism by immersion , submersion , emersion by the judgments of their own approved orthodox authors , then by my own , judging within my self that those words of paul act. the . . viz. as certain of your own poets have said , was ad hominem an argument of more weight , then an argument of ten times more weight then it self , and that if the joint harmony of modern divines , holding forth from rom. . col. . a necessity of resemblance of burial and resurrection to be made in baptism by immersion , submersion , emersion , be not considered , the never so well grounded testimony of my single silly self must needs be sleighted . neverthelesse whether you will hear , or whether you will forbear i shall leave a word or two upon record , whereby either to inlighten you , that there is a resemblance of a burial and resurrection necessarily to be held forth in baptism , and that no lesse is necessarily implyed at least in these two places , romans . and coloss. . or else to leave you without excuse in your disownings of it : for first , this will appear plainly ; if it be considered that by the word baptized in the texts is undoubtedly meant the outward rite , ceremony , sign and form of the administration of baptism . secondly , if it be considered that the phrase buried with him and risen with him , i. e. christ , doth expressely relate immediately , and specially ( if not onely ) in those texts to that outward sign it self , as that in which , ta●en distinctly from the mistery and inward grace . we are said to be buried and risen , not onely in signification , but in lively representation of the inward and spiritual burial and resurrection with christ , and not to the spiritual , internal death and resurrection it self , as that which is to be understood by those phrases at all , muchlesse onely , or altogether , or abstractively , and apart from any outward and bodily burial and resurrection in baptism , as mr. cook and mr. blake , seeme too impishly to imagine . thirdly , this appears yet further insomuch as there are other phrases in that of the rom. that do intimate , and expresse that spirituall death and resurrection that is signified by the analogical , and representative burial of the body in water , and raising it again in baptism viz. dead to sin , alive to god , newnesse of life , &c. here is mention made of the things signified : and as for that that is spoken of under this expression buried in baptism t is delievered as a medium whereby , as a motive whereupon , as a reason wherefore , as an image and representative wherein we are both to read , and remember , and also to practise , and perform that other : for do but mark , how shall we ( saith he ) that are dead to sinne i. e. should be so , live any longer therein ? know you not that as many of you as were baptized into christ i. e. into or in token of an interest in him of a onenesse , and fellowship with him by faith , are baptized into his death , i. e. in token of such a communion with the power of his death , as kills ●in , and crucifies the old man , so that henceforth we should not serve sin ? therefore , or hence it is , saith he , that in baptism i. e. the outward ordinance , we are buried with him i. e. outwardly , visibly bodily in water into death i. e. in token and resemblance of our dying to sin by vertue of his death , that we should be ever practically mindful of this , that like as christ rose again after he was dead , so we should rise to a new life : for if we have bin planted together in the likenesse of his death i. e. signally in outward baptism , spiritually , and really in the inward work , and washing , performed by the spirit upon the soul , we shall be also in the likenesse of his resurrection i. e. we should be de jure , and shall de facto as we believe . fourthly , this burial and resurrection that is immediately expressed by the words buried with him in baptism wherein you are also risen with him , is made a motive , argument , and incitement to the spiritual death , and resurrection , for therefore are we perswaded to die to sin , and live righteously , because in baptism we are buried in water ; and raised again in token that we ought so to do , and on this cond●on are we baptized and buried and raised therein , and so interessed into all the other benefits of christs death , remission of sins and salvation viz. that we should die to sin , and live holily ; and to this end also that we may be minded thereby to do so . nos ea conditione in mortem sepeliri in baptismo scriptura reclamet , ut emoriamur , ac mortificationem istam exinde meditemer , saith calvin l. . c. . s. . now if this death and burial , that we are buried with in baptism , be to this end to teach us , and shew us that , and how we must die to sin , then the buriall in baptism there spoken of is not the death to sin it self , for the motive and things we are moved to are two , and so are the sign and thing signified . now fifthly t is not only such as is made a motive to the other , therefore is not the other , but such a death and resurrection as is performed , accomplisht , transacted in baptism i. e. in the very time and juncture of our baptizing , therefore cannot be meant of our spiritual death and resurection immediatly , but of that burial and resurrection which the outward man in a figure , or resemblance passes through both at , & in the administration of the ordinance , for the spiritual death and resurection is that , which though it be signified and resembled in baptism , yet it is seldom , if ever , transacted in a person in that juncture of time wherein he is baptizing , but for the most part before or after , yea ever either before or after , and never in the very nick and act of baptism , no neither of your baptism nor of ours , for you who professe to baptize infants have a subject , of whom you hope that he will die to sin , when he lives to years , but you look not on him as one that is mortuus , but moriturus , and that not in baptism but long after it , unlesse you suppose baptism confers the inward grace viz. death to sin ex opere operato still ; but we baptiz●ng believers baptize such as repent from dead works , and in fieri , though not infacto esse , are dead to sin before we baptize them , as well as oblige them to die more to sin after it , yet you say your subjects for all that are buried in baptism too , and so say we of ours , therefore the burial in baptism there meant is no other then that of the sign , for the thing signified viz. the death to sin is not done in baptism , whether it be before or after it , and one of the two it is , for calvin saies truly that we hold baptismum esse sepulturam in quam nulli nisi jam mortui already dead i. e , dying to sin are to be buried , but of himself and others that are baptized in infancy he saies quoting rom. the . . nos jam ante mortuos per baptismum sepeliri i. e. before we are dead to sin , we are buried by baptism l. . c. . s. . the burial therefore is not the signatum , but the signum i. e. their putting under water in baptism , which sacramentally is called a burial , even therefore because of the analogy and likenesse it bears to such a thing , even to christs burial , and ours with him , which are the things analogized and lively resembled thereby i. e. by immersion , for by aspersion they are not . and so i have proved by three arguments hitherto that christs ordinance of baptism is a totall dipping viz. first by the prime signification of the word baptize which is to overwhelm or wash by swilling , or dipping , but never to sprinkle , as rantize never to dipp or wash . secondly by the practise of the primitive times , which was totally to dip , as i have made appear many wayes . thirdly by the name of a burial and resurrection , that 's there given to the outward sign by a sacramental metonimy i. e. in this respect as in its dispensation it must bear analogy and likenesse , as spirinkling does not , to the death burial and resurrection of christ , and ours in him , which are the things immediatly signified in baptism , and therefore mainly , and as lively as may be to exemplified thereby . if there be yet any more to say against dipping , and for sprinkling , let us hear it , and as i find it true upon triall , or false and feigned , so accordingly i shall eit●er answer it , or yield , for i know that he , who is not as desirous to hear all that can be said against what he holds , as what is to be said for it can never be so solidly settled in it as he should be : for nil tam certum quam quod ex dubio certum est , nothing more sure to a man then that which he sees as well on what ground some doubt and disown it , as one what himself owns and imbraces it , and though i professe my self to be beyond all doubt that rantism is no ordinance of christ , but a meer figment of men meaning to serve christ by the halves , nor infant baptism neither , ( howbeit i have disputed for them both , and thought i did god service in it too ) yet he that knoweth my heart , knoweth that i have so unsatiable a thirst after the knowledge of truth , that if i could think those things to be the truth of god , as i once did , upon the same totten , and reasonlesse principles you now think so on , i should re-entertain them with rejoicing in my flesh , which would find much ease , and honour by it , and in the spirit much more , which would have that ease , and honour , with peace of conscience , which i was once constrained to deny my self of , because it was once inconsistent in me with such peace , but welcome that disgraced truth of dipping disciples , sith t is that truth , which i am certain ( howbeit they have trampled it for a time ) the gates of hell shall never prevail against , nor the ablest man on earth , so as to disprove it by all that is to be said to the contrary from the word of christ. rantist . there 's more to be said yet to the contrary , and more then ever was answered yet , or ever will be to any purpose by you , or any one else of your gang , and that not onely in way of exception against much of that you have alleadged about the childishnesse , vanity , and insufficiency of infants sprinkling , but also against that dipping fancy you are fallen into , which is some new motion , or renewed notion at the best , having ( for all you have said ) neither good ground , nor example from the word , onely the old greek word may be so construed , and that 's all the ground i could ever learn for that fluid practise , and i am confident that you and that party are wholly in the wrong , for i have seriously studied that controversie , and besought the lord to guide me , and his good spirit by principles from his word of truth sealed upon my conscience doth assure me that way of dipping is groundlesse , irrational , and more uncivilly foolish , then infant baptism can be called childish , and i desire you to tell me what commission he had that baptized you , who may possibly be an unbaptized person , or if he was not yet if you look but some few removes backward , and inquire who baptized him ? and who him ? and who him ? &c. you must come at least to unbaptized persons , i mean even in your own account , who deny sprinkling to be baptism , and such i hope you do not count fit administrators of baptism , and yet such must begin it , for your way was not in use very long agon , also what commission hath christ given you to baptize , you being no minister of the gospel ? and also what commission he hath given you or any else to baptize in that manner , which is without scripture , against reason , and common sence and discretion ? yea i may say against all principles of modesty and common honesty , and charity to mens lives , and so against both the sixth and seventh commandement that many judicious men have judged it to be little lesse then murther , and adultery , and i could easily prove it to be as bad as i say of it , but that its superfluous so to do , sith sundry of our worthy mr. baxter divines viz. dr. featley , mr. blake , mr. cook , and especially have some of them in one perticular , and some of them in another , done it so sufficiently already that i le rather refer you unto them . baptist. i have been so much innured to such hot-shots since i owned the truth , that i can well walk in the middest of them now without amazement : much of this sort of matter i have under my hands in private letters to my self , and others , and what of it is not there is legible i confesse , as it were in text letters in the printed polemicals of your champions , whose sharp censures , and heavy charges of the way of truth , which we walk in , how judicious they are shall ( god willing ) be anon examined , sith you send us to them : at present you shall have a short word to your quaeries , and such other passages which may occure , and intervene either from your self , or their writings in way of contradiction or obstruction to any thing that hath been said before . your first is grounded upon a simple supposition , that an unbaptized person may in no case baptize , or make a fit administrator of baptism , whereas there is nothing in the world more clear then this , that when it is to be done , and cannot be well done otherwise it may be done ( as well as by one that was ) by one that never was baptized at all : yea why not in case of innitiation after intermission as well as at the innitiation of the gospel it self ? i wonder who baptized iohn the baptist , that was the greatest administrator that ever was ? for either he was baptized surely , or else he was not , if he was ever baptized at all , who baptized him ? but if he was never baptized the matter amounts still to be the same , i. e. to evince no lesse then we assert that at the innitiation of the dispensation , whether at first , or after a long unlawful cessation , an unbaptized person may baptize : for if iohn the baptist himself was not baptized himself , or if he was , either by one that was unbaptized , or else by one that was first baptized by himself , he talks in his sleep that saies an unbaptized person may not in such a pressing case baptize . your second querie is as unsolidly grounded as the other , and supposes your opinion to be this , that no man , though baptized himself , unlesse he be a minister , i. e. an ordained officer may baptize , for say you what commission have you to baptize you being no minister of the gospel ? whereas if by minister you mean one officiating as a pastor over a people , there is nothing more cleer in the world or in the word either , then that others besides the ministers may baptize , viz. not any she , for which there 's no president , but rather precept to the contrary cor. . tim. . but any prophet i. e. any he gifted disciple , especially when by the improvement of his gifts he proves , as not seldome such do , instrumentall of the parties convertion : ananias baptized paul himself , yet was he but a certain disciple acts the . if you say that he was sent by god himself , to that service , it serves to shew this however , which we affirm that god limited not that disp●nsation to the ministry , for if he had he would have sent peter , or at least some other officer to that work . did not philip baptize the samaritans and the eunuch ? yet he did it in the capacity of a disciple , and howbeit t is true he was ordained to be a deacon , and deacons were by the bishops babishly authorized to baptize , yet that was no part of his office as a deacon , for his deaconship designed him to no more then barely to have a care of the poor , and if you say he was an evangelist also , so is every one that is gifted to preach the gospel , and doth it , whether he be in any office or no , for evangelist is nothing but a preacher of the gospel , and such are they that occasionally preach it , as well as such as preach it constantly by way of office : therefore all the disciples that were scattered together with philip it s said went every where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . and philip that was one of those disciples 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 acts . . preached or did the work of an evangelist , whence philip was called evangelista , that being the very thing made him an evangelist , and not his deaconship , besides which he had no other office , because he did evangelizare : no man can give a reason why the scattered disciples that did evangelizare , or preach the gospel with him should not be denominated evangelists as well as he , and indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ no more then a preacher and he that preaches , and though every pastor be both an evangelist and a prophet ; yet he that saies every evangelist , and prophet is a pastor or an ordained officer qua sic , or that either of these are nomen officii , or sounding forth more then a person thus or thus gifted viz. the evangelist to preach the gospel for the conversion of such as are yet without , the prophet to speak to the exhortation , edification and comfort of the church , and people already converted , and both these occasionally only , and not as by vertue of an ordination to an office , may say it ten times over , before the scripture , rightly understood , will furnish him to make proof of it once . and as these ordinary disciples , for the apostles abode still at ierusalem act. . . went every where as well as philip , pro suo modulo evangelizantes preaching christ according to their abilities , so the hand of the lord was with those occasional preachers , that a great number believed , and turned to the lord by their means , and were baptized also undoubtedly by their hands ; yea the famous church of antioch had its foundation from this , and grew into a church , which they could not do without baptism , before any actual officer came neer them : for though paul and barnabas walked with them for a year and improved their gifts for their edification , yet neither of these , were yet actually any more then evangelists , and prophets , though before by god intended , and not long after by the church visibly ordained to their apostleship , i. e. men of excellent gifts , and this will appear act. . from verse . to the end , with act. . v. . and backward to the beginning : you do therefore greatly err not knowing the scriptures , which tell you also plainly that though paul converted all the corinthians , yet his own hands baptized but a few , committing that dispensation , as an inferiour work to his preaching , to the hands of inferiour disciples , as mr. baxter himself also confesses to your confutation , asserting it from cor. . so though peter converted the company in cornelius house , yet surely he baptized them not all , if any at all , with his own hands , but left the administration to the hands of others , some one or more of the brethren that came with him ; and the manner of speech implies plainly no lesse , for he commanded that they should all be baptized in the name of the lord : yea so far is the word from tying up the dispensation of baptism to an office , that we have much more president and proof after christs ascension of comon disciples , then you have of officers baptizing . you therefore make much more a do in this then needs , you strain indeed at a goat , and swallow a camel , and busy your self so about the truth of administrators , that you have lost the truth , and substance of the administration it self ; were your baptism true baptism indeed , there is no necessity that ordained ministers must administer it , but unlesse it were truer then it is , no matter if it were never administred at all . know therefore sirs i beseech you that the verity worth , weight and efficacy of baptism depends not upon the quality of the person administring , but upon the truth of the subject to whom , and the true form wherein t is administred ; the scripture prescribes plainly who they are that shall , and in what manner these shall , but not at all by whom they shall be baptized : t is the duty of them that believe to be baptized , and his duty that baptizes to baptize indeed , not rantize only , and to baptize such as , being taught the gospel , do believe it , but who they must be that are to baptize those is neither here nor there to the baptism for ought i find in the word , so they be but masculine disciples : nay though the person baptizing be not only no officer ( but in the case above named as yet ) unbaptized himself , yet if the person baptized be not only a believing disciple , but also baptized really , and indeed his baptism is never the worse for the other : experience tells me , and i believe many more , that have been baptized according to truth , that t was drawing neer to christ with true hearts in his true ordinance that made us accepted in his sight , not the qualifications of the baptizers , whose baptism and ministerial functions ( were they invested with both ) could add never the more validity nor verity to our baptism , as neither could the non-entity of either of those in them have possibly made the baptism so sincerely submitted to , be in any measure void , and of no effect ; the placing so much in persons administring as to think our selves ere the better for that , was that fantastical fopery of the corinthians for a while , one saying i am of paul , another i of apollo , another i of caephas i. e. i was baptized by such or such , which made the apostle paul , who with his own hands baptized but some of them , well nigh wish he had baptized none of them at all , when he saw their carnall glories in the persons administring , and blesse god that he baptized no more , least they should have thougt the better of themselves , and of their baptism for its dispensation of it by his hands . the administrators therefore being baptized or not baptizd , minister or no minister maketh the baptism , if elsewise warrantable , neither better nor worse of it self : all this i speak all this while , not as granting that our baptism is by unbaptized persons , and that my self am no minister of the gospel , for neither of these shall be yielded by any meanes , unlesse you were more able then you are to prove them , i speak it suppositively that if these were both so , yet both my baptizing and being baptized may be warrantable enough notwithstanding or else if we deemed it worth while to seek out what succession our baptism hath had from the apostles , in a series without interruption , t is possible there were some disciples in all ages that owned the truth , though so few and despised , that their generation can scarcely be declared , for who can declare his generation , whose life in himself , and his was still cut off from the earth ? but we go by the word that is above all church and ministry in our account of our baptism and ministry , and not by succession in either : and as for your selves , that hold so much on succession , and boast of a lineal descent of your ministry and rantism from the apostles , t will pussle you no lesse to prove that , if we put you to it , then t will if we put you to it to disprove a lineal succession of our baptism , for if we cannot name the particular persons that baptized one another in this way , wherein we do it , successively from the persons of the apostles in answer to this question who baptized you ? and who him ? and who him ? and so upwards till we come thither , are you able if we ask you who sprinkled you ? and who him ? and who him ? and who him ? &c. to particularize more punctually then we ? are you able to assign who began our way of baptism first of all in the world , unlesse you begin as high as iohn the baptist ? nay verily though dr. featley would fain father it upon stock , yet it s most manifest unto you all that infants sprinkling was denied by some ever since it was known to have a being , for it was controverted in the daies of the fathers , and that it would not have been had there been none that had then denied it , and denied it could not be by any but such as pleaded the baptism of believers , in those times , and were the right way baptized themselves . you have not one president of one infant sprinkled , nor proof that such a thing was so much as talked on , for at least an hundred years after christ , but we are most certain , and your selves cannot deny it , that the bapti●m of believers began at iohn the baptist , and the apostles , and if we could prove a succession of it de facto no further downwards then so , yet it is enough to us that we find it then was so , whereby to prove that it ought to have been so in all ages since , and is to be de jure at this day . one word more and then we have done with this , if none at all save such as are baptized themselves may in any case dispense baptism to others , save such also as are by ordination true ministers of the gospel ; then your selves , who pretend solely to the title of baptizing , are no right administrators , as being in truth neither baptized , nor ordained in such wise as the scripture requires : that your baptism is null i have cleared it enough already , and that your ministry is no lesse is apparent , sith whilst you indeavour to derive it from the apostles , you can derive it thence no other wise then the pope doth his , for if a line of succession be a proof of true ministry , you may indeed derive it as well , but not one jot better then he , he can shew you his line of succession , if not from peter , yet at least from linus himself , that lived in the daies of the apostles , and you can shew us the line , wherein you came from the pope , and so through his loines from the other : there is no other way for your ministry to prove its pedigree from the primitive times but this , no way for you to climb up to the apostles as the fathers , and founders of your function but by a chain of many linkes , whereof if one happen to prove unsound , and t is a chance but a flaw may be found in some of them , that have been trailed for many hundreds of years together through the hands of that apostaticall harlot , the intaile is clear cut of , your pedigree and descent from the apostles , as a ministry , perishes , is spilt upon the ground , and can never be tact on again any more for ever : you have hitherto owned your ordination as handed by an uninterrupted lineal succession from the pope to the present presbytery , and if we put the question to the veriest novice or youngling among you , who ordained you ? and who ordained those that ordained you ? and who them ? and who them ? and who them ? you can find your function flowing in a continual stream from the primitive fountain no other way , but through that stinking sink and corrupt channel of the holy chaire ; pope gregory the great gave power of ordination to austin the monk , when he sent him over into england about a thousand years since , he to the popish bishops , they to the protestant bishops , they to the presbyters , and the presbyters to their present preachers : thus what ministeriall power you have hangs upon the protestant bishops , theirs upon austin , austins upon the pope , the popes upon peter : you came i. e. descended from the pope , the pope came i. e. departed from the apostles , and thus from the apostles you came all , but thither you must go again , letting go your sweet succession , and from their words , which are the same now as then , begin your businesse again before you can be right , or know any thing cleerly where you are , for if he whom your selves call antichrist , , made you a ministery of christ , you may be the ministry of the church of england if you will , which if it be vere ecclesia a true church at all , y●t is such a one as had its parochial posture from whence you had your power , and therefore fit enough each for the other , but of the church in england , which is vera ecclesia the true church indeed , you shall never be the ministry for me , till you repent and be baptized . as for my self whom you deem to be no minister of the gospel , i must not lead you so far from the other work in hand as to stand upon the proof of that now , having transgressed ( as some will think ) too far already , though else it were no impossible thing to prove it , and therefore i say this only in short that whether i am now a true minister of the gospel or no , t is now my utmost aim to preach and promote the truth of it as t is in jesus , but as for the time in , which i was owned a minister of the gospel , i was at that time no true one at all , yea though i have obtained mercy , and such mercy as to be made a minister thereof since , because i did what i did ignorantly , yet so far was i then from a minister of the gospell that i rather rejected the counsell of god against my self , being not baptized of them that preached it , and disputed much against it as well as you . and now as unto your third quaery , viz. what commission have any to baptize in that manner ? that is , by dipping , which you stile such an irra●ional , and undiscreet way , t is that which i have resolved you in so satisfactorily before , that unlesse you have more to say against it then to miscal it , as you do , before you have proved it to be so base as you are pleased to stile it , i shall rejoice in christ jesus that hath chosen such foolish and base things as dipping in water is , in the account of men however excellent in it self , and in proof of its warrantableness , unles it be occasionally , add no more . rantist . i have referred you already where you shall find exception against all you have said before , as concerning the truth of the way of baptism , and i desire that you would find your self work a little therewith , i mean the forenamed books that are extant , specially that of mr. baxter whom i know to be a very able and godly man , who hath in mine , and i think in all discerning mens apprehensions so sollidly disproved , and clearly confuted your way of dipping , that few or none of those , that see what he saies in that point , will be of your mind , and follow your fashion therein , for whereas you say that dipping was the custome in the first times , and therefore go about to seduce men into the belief of it , because it s said that the eunuch went down into the water , and that john baptized in aenon because there was much water there , he replies that is a thing never proved by any , and that the jaylor was baptized in the night in his own house , and therefore not likely over head in that countrey , where water was so scarce , and that the eunuch might well be said to go down into the water , for the country was mountanous , and the brooks in the bottoms , and that even the river aenon it self where iohn baptized because there was much water , is found by travellers to be a small brook , which a man might almost step over , and much more , that gainsaies much of what you have said , is in the . page of his book , which i shall expect your answer to , but if you please le ts see what you can say to this first . baptist. i shall very freely speak to any thing which hath not yet been spoken to in particular , and to mr. baxters exceptions in that particular rather then any other , because he is most noted in those parts were he lives , and also in the examination of his exceptions , i shall have the more hint to take notice of such reliques , and broken pieces as remain yet unspoken to , as the gainsayings of the rest in this point , for he seems to me to have gathered them up there , and to have epitomized those mens matter as i● were into a fardel of fewer words : excepting the two last grand arguments of mr. cook against dipping , one of which doctor featley affronts us with in the title page , and both of which are more sparingly spoke to yet , covertly touched , and tacitly touched upon by mr. cook , and those mr. baxter rather comments on at large , and makes ( i cannot say a fairer , but a fouler , a falser , and far more miserable improvement of then any of the rest do : this he professes to be the businesse of his book p. . viz. to use the proofs that others make use of in some newer kind of way , confessing that few have improved their arguments as they might have done , nor mannaged them in the most forcible way , and not to medle much with those arguments that others have fully mannaged . yet ( by his leave ) he meddles so much with the arguments that others almost every one makes use of , that he makes some of them the worse again , he mars many a one with his mendall mannagement . it is not to use many arguments ( saith he ) but to drive home a few . yet he uses many more then any one else , viz. three capital ones to prove infants to be disciples , twenty cardinal ones , to prove them members , to which ( nos numeri sumus ) a number of others are subservient , and subordinate two more in proof of babisme , besides eight in proof of no body knows what , all these in his disputative piece of book , so that for ought i find et sinon prosint singula , multa juvant , his genius stood more to numerositie , than dextery in handling a few , unlesse by few he mean only the three main mediums as capital , and cardinal to the rest , the first of which , but especially the second , in tot ramos , ramulos & ramusculos se ipsum rantizavit , hath stragled it self into so many small branches , that indeed it hangs not handsomly together within it self , and indeed the whole is but a certain three legged stool , which he hath made for people to sit at rest upon in their vain worships , and se●vings of god , after the precepts of men , which if they never be broken by any hand , writing responsibly to them , yet are so rotten , that they will wear out within a while of themselves : but be they few or many he might well say he would drive home a few , for verily above all the rest , those two i speak of , viz. wherein dipping is called murther , and adultery , he drives on beyond the bounds of modesty , truth , sense and reason . as far , i dare say to the full , as god would suffer the devill to direct , and drive him . for my part i never saw mr. baxters face that i know of , but i see too much of his spirit in his latest labor , in which , if the spirit of god had been his leader , he would not have led him into that confident utterance of such utter untruths , not onely in point of doctrine , but matter of fact too now and then : let his parts , let his piety you talk on , be more then his parts if it will , god once left as honest as holy , as worthy a one as he can be , in punishment of a people whom he had a mind to plague for their dotage on him , to be stirred up by satan to do things inconvenient , and unseemly chron. . . and so it seemes to me he hath left mr. baxter , as godly as he is , or else there could never have issued from him such inconsiderate crudities , such rank venomous , viperous , ulcerous fluxes of folly , flesh , fierceness , fiction , falseness , firery invectives , to the madding of the very magistracy , if it would be any longer blinded by the bawlings of a mistaken ministry , against many a dear saint of god , against a people precious to god , though base in his eyes , against thousands that are as intimate with god , and more privy to his will in point of baptism then himself , that thus he does shall appear by and by , at present see what little verity and less validity is in that first viz. that it is not yet proved by any that dipping was the primitive custome , when yet it s proved , if not by many , yet at least by two of our way viz. a. r. and mr. blackwood , and that so sufficiently that if dr. featley , and mr. baxter , mr. cook , and mr. blake did not decline them , and if they had been minded to mark and seriously to search the scriptures , and not to dazle mens eyes with all the fiddle-faddles they could find to fling before them , and to satisfie themselves at slender rates in the present custome , rather then cry out for a change , sith it is the present custome , the scriptures they hint on are so plain , taking the words thereof , not in feigned , forced , figurative and forreign , but in their own prime , direct , native , ordinary , proper , and rational sense and signification , that he who runs may read no lesse then this , that dipping , yea total , was the way wherein baptism was then dispensed : but if we had not such proof of it extant from our own party , yet t is so clear of it self that men famous , even of your own way that have not thrust their fingers too far into the fire of this controversie , concerning the primitive form of baptizing ( as these men have done , and therefore will on in what they have once asserted , and get thorow by hook or crook , rather then recede with that shame ( i should say honour ) which is the right of every recantant , when he sees he hath misreckoned ) do not onely confesse , but also teach us the very same that we stand for . witnesse tilenus , who tells us that immersio usitatior olim fuerit praesertim in iudea et aliis regionibus &c. p. . dipping , yea totall dipping ( for in the very line before he defines the right of baptism to be tripple , immersio in aquam , mora sub aqua , emersio ex aqua , plunging into the water , abode under it , resurrection out of it ) was rather used heretofore specially in judea , and other warmer countries then sprinkling . yea dr. featley , that is as it were the fronteer or fileleader in doing all the disgrace he could to dipping , did yet find occasion to acknowledge little lesse p. . notwithstanding saith he , i grant that christ and the eunuch were baptized in the river , and that such baptism of men , i. e. in rivers , specially in the hotter climates , hath been , is and may lawfully be used : though i confesse he gives this a pull in again , and very cleanly contradicts himself in the very next words , saying that there is no proof at all of dipping or plunging , but onely of washing in the river . o grosse , first , as if the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did signifie onely to wash in some other way , and not at all to wash by dipping . secondly , as if ever any things , or persons , that are washed in rivers are washed ordinarily otherwise then by dipping or plunging . thirdly , as if he could properly be said to be washed in a river that was never in it , but was onely scrubd a little by the side of it . or fourthly as if wise persons would go into a river for no more then a little fourbishing their faces . rantist . you talk of in the river , and into the river , but you heed not what mr. baxter saies in the present section that you are desired to speak to , he tells you the word into is not to be taken as if either john and christ , or philip and the eunuch were at all in the water or descended into it , but unto it onely , it being below in the bottoms , and the countrey being montanous , in which respect they might well be said to go down into it : mr. cook also and mr. blake do both very elegantly answer your observation in that particular mr. c. thus to a. r. viz. your collection from philips going down into the water with the eunuch , therefore they used dipping is as vain , must they not go down to the water where it was if they would use it ? would the water have come up to them in the chariot any sooner for sprinkling then for dipping ? of the same stamp is your inference from mat. . . mark . . from christs ascending from the water , for as christ was pleased to be baptized with water , so he was pleased to go where the water was viz. in the channel , where there was a descent , and from which there was an ascent , so that he must go down to , and come up from the water . nay rather your conceit is here confuted , for if our blessed saviour had been plunged of john into the water then it would rather have been said that john cast or plunged christ into the water , and took him out of the water , but it is onely implyed that christ went down to the water , and came up again from it . mr. blake thus to mr. blackwood viz. for your criticism of the ascending and descending , if you compare acts . . . . also with your places quoted , you will see it nothing for your purpose , those phrases are used when men go to a place , or from a place , when they neither ascend upwards , neither descend downwards , bishop usher will furnish you with ten severall scriptures , where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the acts of the apostles is used for no descent from a higher place to a lower , but onely a removing from place to place , though in this place we may believe there was some ascent and descent , waters being lower places , and when they went to the place of waters the channell in which the waters had their current , they may be fitly said to go into the water , howsoever one or two examples serve not your purpose , but a general concurrence of all examples : we have examples giving full evidence of a different practise , and nothing can be concluded from those examples . baptist. o the wondrous wayes of wretchednesse , if not of wilful wilinesse that the wits of these men work in whereby to wave of the way of god from taking place among them ! how do they strive to keep it off as it were at staves end , not yielding it an inch lest it should get an ell , one brings one kind of furniture , wherewith to fight it , another another , yet altogether are but a bullrush , a flag , that shewes like sword and rapier , but will scarce hold a push if put to it to the purpose : mr. blake he fetches furniture from bishop vsher that saies there are ten scriptures in the acts where the words ascend and descend expresse no more then removing from one place to another , of which if those he alledges be two of the ten , or supernumerary it matters not , for if there were it would do him no right , and truth no wrong in this place , where it is believed by every of the three both himself and his two colleagues , that here was going up and down from higher places to lower , therefore he may set that cypher some where else , or send it home again to the book whence he had it , and where perhaps it was of use , for here it stands void and serves for nothing . and as for their joint sneaping the words they went down into the water , and came out of the water into such a short sense as may serve your own curtaild , and cloudy conceptions of the matter , and exclude our construction that is most clear , and congruous , perverting and mincing it thus , viz. that they went down to the water , i. e. the channel where the water was , to which there was a descent , and ascended from the water ; or if it be allowed to be read ( as t is most properly rendred by the translators ) into the water , yet the meaning of that word into must be no other then unto , i admire how men of such professed piety can convince their consciences to content with such home-spun coverings , such greivous glosses , pittiful put ofs , as they do in this case , i profess they might almost as good say that the heard of swine , that mat. . . are said to run down into the sea , did but run down to the sea , and no further , as to limit these scriptures that relate the baptism of christ and of the eunuch , so as to force them to no further signification then this to , and unto , and from the water as if they went not into it at all . rantist . nay not so neither by your leave , for the words that follow , which relate that the swine were choaked in the waters shew plain enough that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though we will not allow it the sense of into mark . must needs be englished into here , and that the english word into , though we allow it to signifie no more then to or unto , acts the . verse . yet signifyes that the swine were really not at onely but in the waters , for how else , could they be choaked there ? baptist. how ? why man t is as possible a creature may be choaked with water powring down his throat , yea and a little more possible then t is for any creature to be said truly , not synechdochically , to be baptized by sprinkling , or powring water only upon his face , and yet t is sure enough that this choaking of the swine was otherwise then so , and no other then by an overwhelming in water , forasmuch as it is said they ran down into the lake and were choaked luke . . choaked in the waters matth. . . in the sea mark . . and yet t is as sure to me , who dare not suppose the spirit to speak nonsence , as they do in my mind , who say that this baptizing act. . , . matth. . . mark . , . was , though with water also as their choaking was , ( and therefore dr. featley will get nothing by pleading for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signify with ) yet not as truly in the water also , i. e. by an overwhelming therewith , forasmuch as t is said act. , , . they went down both into the water both philip and the eunuch and he baptized [ anglice dippt or overwhelmed ] or ( if you will have washed ) washed him by dipping , for as dipping and swilling is a true washing , so by washing , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is englished by it , is meant neither infusing nor sprinkling , but that washing onely that is by the way of dipping , and i testify to their faces , that would fain make a baptizm of rantism , that t is more easy to choak then to baptize a man without overwhelming but mr. cook foreseeing no doubt what absurdity must needs be committed in granting the words to be read as they be translated , viz. they went down into the water and ascended out of the water , and yet denying that they were at all in the water , and being sensible also surely how it might be noted as a piece of paultry and partiallity , to allow the sense of into to the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in acts . . and yet so deeply to disown and deny that sence of into to the same preposition in mark . . as he does , he is more wary then either mr. blake or mr baxter in that particular , and will not by any meanes read it as the other do viz. they went down into the water , nor yet as t is in the text they came up out of the water , but runs it over more smoothly in a phrase sutable to his own purpose , viz. they went down to the water , and came up from the water , but i hope he'el condescend freely to be corrected for the same fault , and with the same rod of reproof with which himself hath corrected others , or else his partiallity will so appear as to deny him to have any of that wisdome , which is from above iames the last : wherefore as he checks a. r. most sharply for offering to alter , and vary from the wisdome of interpreters , so as to english the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by in , which they thought good to english with p. , in these words , viz. i would demand of you whether you think that our translators , and most or all others , who have englished it with knew not how to render the original in its proper signification as well as your self . so i must take the boldnesse , sith our translators , and most or all others , but himself , do read act. . . thus they went down both into the water and asc●nded out of the water , to demand of him in his own words to a. r. whether he think that our translators , and most or all others , who english those passages by into the water , knew not how to render the originall in its proper signification as well as himself ? as for the other two , viz. mr. blake and mr. baxter they foreseeing no doub● it would be no safe , handsome , acceptable , nor advantagious way to take upon them , as they saw mr. cook did , to correct the translators , and mend their constructions , they are more wary then mr. cook in that particular , and so ( thus incidit in scillam , qui vult , &c. ) to decline the rock of insolence , they drop into the gulf of nonsence , owning the original to be rightly rendred , and reading them according to that rendition , viz. into the water , and up out of the water , yet denying those phrases they descended into the water , and came up out of the water , , to sound out any more then mr. cook saies the greek words do viz. to and from the water . but i must intreat those two parallels in that opinion , to consider what imparalleld improprietie it is to expresse no more then going to the water side , and comming from it again by these phrases , viz. going down into the water , and comming out of the water for they imply necessarily a being in the water , and not only at it : he descended into hell is more then being at the brinks of hell , he descended into the lower parts of the earth , is more then bare being on the superficies of the earth , and so he descended into the water , is necessarily more then being at the side : the situation of the water below in the bottoms will not salve the absurdity of such expression , concerning being at the water only , and returning , for he descended to it , and ascended from it is enough for that , but to expresse that only by into it and out of it , is superfluous and superlative simplicity : whatsoever element , or place in any element we are said to go down into , and come up out of we w●re once in or else we are fowlly belied : had it been said of philip and the eunuch they went down both to the water , or into the bottoms , they descended into the vallies , where the water was , as mr. cook prates by a periphrasis , and when they came up out of the valley , or bottom from the water , then it had shewed somwhat like the sense these men like best and long to have it in , but into the water , and out of the water expresse not only a bare being in the bottomes , where the water was but in the water also ; for whatsoever place or element is put after the prepositions into and out of is a place or element that the persons denominated to go into and out of were once really and truly in . daniel was thrown into and taken up out of the lyons den , does not that shew plainly enough that he was in it ? the swine ran into the sea , were they not then in it ? i threw it into the fire ( saies aaron of the molten image he made ) and there came out this calf , will any say that the mettals he made it of were only warmed at the fire side ? they went down both into the water , both philip and the eunuch and came up out of the water , iesus was baptized of iohn into iordan , mark . . and when he was baptized went straitway out of the water , math. . . can any man say that these two persons iesus and the eunuch , of whom also dr. featley grants that they were baptized in the river , were never in it at all , but only wetted at the water side ? but that philip and the eunuch went into and were in the water , and not unto it and at it only , is evident by what i have hinted once already , viz. in that it is said they were come unto the water before , and therefore this must needs be into it , or else either the spirit tautologized , or they tautopoi●zed , and came unto the water twice over , but never into it at all . two more odd conceits , and emblemes of the emptinesse of their apprehension in this point , two a piece i mean in mr. cook and mr. blake , i shall take notice of briefly in their fore-cited shuffles , and so passe on to the rest . first , how peartly doth mr. cook squitch up a. r. with a question or two as if he would catechise him in that which he hath yet need to be further chatechisd himself ? must they not go down to the water ( saith he ) if they would use it ? would the water come up to them in the chariot any sooner for sprinkling then for dipping ? in answer to which question , i intreat mr. cook to ask his conscience this question , whether if they had used the water only for sprinkling , there was such necessity of going down to it as he seemes to intimate , would not the water have come up to them in the chariot sooner by far for sprinkling then for dipping ? yea verily both philip and the eunuch might have sat still in the chariot and commanded water enough for sprinkling to be brought up to them thither in the hollow of the chariot drivers hand , if there were no bigger a vessel to bear it in , but for dipping enough could never possibly be brought up into the chariot at all . secondly , he must , saies he of christ , go down and come up from the water , but here is not the least hint that john doused christ over head , or under water , nay rather that conceit of yours , saith he to a. r. is here confuted , for if our blessed saviour had been plunged of john into the water , then it would rather have been said that john cast or plunged christ into the water , and took him out of the water , but it is only implied that christ went down unto the water and came up again from it . o how egregiously , how shamefully doth this man forget , and utter himself as if his senses were sodden into trapizuntius his temper ! i would therfore ask him one or two questions viz. first : whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth at all signifie to douse over head , or under water , or to plunge into water yea or no ? if not ( but i suppose he will not deny it so to do , though he denies it to signifie onely plunging ) then i would have him to go to school again to the lexicons which will teach him that it mainly signifies mergo , immergo , submergo , and if lavo , a bluo it is such an ab●u●ion as is made immergendo , but if it doth signifie to plunge dip or douse under water , or overwhelm at all , and i dare say he and every one else shall find it for all lavo , quod fit immergendo , to signifie a swilling in water altogether ▪ then i advise him to be think himself , for i think he was asleep when he wrote this passage , that there is at least some little hint that iohn plunged christ into the water , when it s said christ was baptized alias , plunged , dipt of iohn into iordan , or washt in iordan ▪ sith that pleases himself , unless he put a difference between the active and the passive and will not yield it to be all one , that iohn baptized christ , and christ was baptized of iohn , but though it be said christ was baptized i. e. plunged of iohn into iordan , overwhelmed in iordan , and that he came out of the water , which is a shrewd sign that iohn did not keep him there , yet this is not plain and significant enough for him it seems unlesse he may have the framing of the spirits speech another way , that is no whit plainer then the other neither , viz. that iohn cast or plunged christ into the water , and took him out of the water , unlesse it may be said just so all that is said , which yet is the same with that he would have to be said , implies no more then that christ went down unto the water and and came up again from it , without being baptized , so belike : how a. rs. opinion that iohn doused christ under water , which is also mine , and the very plainest expression the original can be read in , is confuted by those texts mat. . . mark. . . . i can no more conceive , then i can conceive that this expression viz. philip and the eunuch went down both into the water , and he baptized him , is a confutation of him that supposes the eunuch to be baptized at all , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are mr. cooks marginals wherby he would have us learn t is like from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that their ascension was but from the water , but i muse why he would not set down the words of the other scripture , act. the . . which expounds this , and where t is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in latin ex , and englished most naturally out of . the second thing more observable in mr. blakes businesse runs thus , first , saith he , howsoever one or two examples serve not your purpose , but a general concurrence of all examples . see how mr. bls. heart misgives him , and well nigh wavers within , whether he had not best yield us these two examples , for all his tugging for them before , into our cause , and therefore now falls , for fear these two will side against him , to serve himself against them another way , i. e. by denying that the testimony of the spirit in these two examples , is of any validity to us without a concurrence of all examples : to which i say , had mr. blake but one half inch of an example in the new testament of baby baptism how much he would make of it we may see by his cunning counterfeit examples for that thing out of scriptures , that in truth are not onely far from exemplifying such a thing , as the housholds he makes use of are , but also clear examples to the contrary , as the non-baptizing of those very infants that were brought to christ , and the non-baptizing of those very infants with their parents act. the . to whose parents , and their children to , on the same termes of repentance when at years , the promise is there made : both which scriptures he wrests into his turne , yea verily , and had he but one true single example of any one infant baptized in all that word , we should lay down to him , and never open our mouthes more against infant baptism : yet if these two examples do prove for us , it seemes they shall not be heeded , whilst against them , unlesse there be a general concurrence of all examples . wherefore secondly , i tell him of a truth that though me thinks the single example of the lord iesus might content him , and of the eunuch , for can he shew a better example then these ? yet there 's as general a concurrence of all examples in this particular , as there is of the example of any one thing , that is exemplified in the scriptures : all ierusalem , all iudea , and the region about iordan were baptized i. e. dipt of iohn in iordan confessing their sins , christ dipt of iohn into iordan , the eunuch going into the water and there baptized , baptizing in aenon because much water , and indeed the very word baptize makes them all examples of our practise , while it signifies obruo , submergo . secondly saies he , we have examples giving full evidence of a different practise , and nothing can be concluded for you from these examples of yours . mr. bls. examples it seems for his different practise must conclude for him , but our examples though never so clear must conclude nothing for us , ipse dixit mr. bl. hath forbidden them so to do , and therefore we must sign ne plus ultra here , and urge our examples no more , wherefore i le cease . onely secondly , i hope he will give me leave to ask him what different practise it is he meanes , of which he hath examples giving full evidence against ours , and if it be either baptism of infants , or rantism of infants , or powring water on infants , or washing infants any other way , or dispensig christs ordinance of baptism to men or women in any other way then in the way of dipping , or washing by dipping , which baptizo signifies , i le promise him faithfully that upon his giving us any one example that gives full evidence of it , or any other kind of full evidence of it besides that of example , any of which he is far from giving in any thing that was ever pen'd by him yet , i shall yield and become his disciple , and follow him as far as i find him following christ in that or any thing else , and that for ever : till then he must excuse me if in love to his soul i seriously beseech him to search and try his wayes and turn in truth to that truth of the lord iesus he yet tramples on . rantist . there is example given you enough against your way by mr. blake , mr. baxter and mr. cook too of baptizing otherwise then by dipping , in the iailor , whom they all instance in either expressely , or implicitly , first mr. baxter saies in that section of his which you have not yet fully spoke to , that the iailor was baptized in the night in his house , and therefore not likely over head in that countrey where water was so scarce , and to this agree some words of mr. blake and mr. cook concurrent in matter though different in form : we read saith mr. cook p. . of multitudes baptized even in ierusalem without mention of going to the rivers , and of whole families without mention of going to the waters , or fetching store of waters , it is like the waters they had within doors at midnight sufficed acts . . acts . . . and saith mr. blake p. . sometimes baptism was administred where water for dipping was not to be had , and though the eunuch comming to a river saith here is water , what hindred that i should be dipped ? yet there is little probability that paul could say so in judas's house in streight street in damascus , nor the iailor in his prison in philippi : you say that baptism was ordinarily in rivers , where there were many waters , but sure there were neither many waters , nor rivers in these mens dwellings , and as sure they went not out in the night unto any such places , yet were they baptized . baptist. are these your examples of baptizing otherwaies then by dipping ? certainly unlesse these three men were every one of them either shamefully slighthy in their searches , or willingly ignorant , or smitten with blindnesse , and given up in some measure at least , for their not imbracing this plain easie truth of dipping , in the love thereof , to deep dotage and stronge delusion , they could never believe , much lesse print such palpable untruths , absolute absurdities , and cleer self confutations , as are unavoidably to be seen by him that reads with understanding these parcells they have published to the eye of all men . see first how mr. cook contradicts himself in that clause , we read of great multitudes baptized even three thousand in ierusalem without mention of going to the rivers . to say nothing of the invalidity of this piece to his purpose , nor needlessenesse of the scriptures mentioning the particular place where every one was baptized , for what if that be not specified every where where baptism is talked on , least the volume should swell , is it not as much as to say they were dipped in that it is said they were baptized , i. e. submersi , obruti , abluti immergendo , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies mainly , i suppose i may safely say only such washing as is by dousing , dipping or swilling , specially since in places enough it is said they were baptized in rivers , and places of much water : but to say nothing i say of that , mark how this clause of mr. cook clashes with another of his within a matter of ten lines upwards from it , for there giving other reasons , then that of dipping , why iohn chose to baptize in rivers and running waters , among others he gives this as a speciall one , viz. because of the multitudes that were baptized , especially saith he , seeing there came such huge multitudes to him to be baptized , and yet here were great multitudes baptized even no lesse then and yet sith there is no mention of the place where , which by mr. cooks own reason , if it be a reason , must be a place of running waters , and streams that many might be imploied at once in baptizing along the river , for the more speedy dispatch , with so great multitudes , therefore these belike went not out to the rivers , though yet there 's no more mentioned that they did not , then that they did . there were thousands of converts act. the . the . of the matter of whose baptism there is no more mentioned then of the manner of it , and yet there is ground enough to believe they were all baptized , as well as the rest , yea mr. blake believes it , and in the same way as the rest whose baptism with the manner of it is expressed , for why should others be baptized in rivers because they were multitudes , and yet these multitudes be exempted from that and be dispached with so small a matter as sprinkling ? therefore the not mentioning t was done , is an argument as good as nothing ; and whereas he saies there is no mentioning of fetching in great store of waters , t is true , that we never read at all of water fetcht to the persons , but of persons going to the water we do , though he saies we do not , for even lydia her self and her family , which is no other then his own instance , were gone out to a river side to hear paul preach , where being converted they were baptized , that being the wonted place of preaching and praying no doubt in order to the conveniency of baptizing , before ever the apostles were so much as invited to her house . secondly , of this stamp also is mr. blakes conceit concerning the baptism of paul , who because the particular place or sourse of water wherein he was baptized is not expressed , imagins that he must needs be baptized within doors , and no where else , and so consequently not by dipping , but some other way , whereas there is neither necessity nor probability of his being so , but rather evidence if not from the very place , yet at least from what mr. blake saies that it was otherwise ; for first , it seemes to me that paul was not to be baptized within , but to go some where or other to the dispatching of that businesse , wherefore else should ananias rub him up to it as he doth in such wise as this , and now why tariest thou ? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins &c. which as it argues it was a service paul was tardy to , and i know no mans flesh forward to it further then by faith it is overpowred , specially in such a weak case as paul it seemes was in at that present , so it was as who should say , why art thou so undisposed to thy duty in that particular , make hast , and linger not longer about it , but come away and be baptized : now had aspersion or infusion been only the work , paul could not have bin so backward as to need such sharp exsuscitation , when once convinced , for there 's no such great unpleasantness to the flesh , as to engender any aversenesse unto that , but that paul was more tardy then he should have been ( and why he should be so i know not if among the other impediments , at least he was not sensible of some tediousnesse in the service ) was uttered in a publique exercise once from that very text acts. . . by a friend of yours , and mine now deceased , at his sprinkling one of mine own children , in which sermon the doctrine was this ( and a good doctrine it was , and very truly grounded upon the example of pauls dulnesse in that scripture , and further cleered by lots loitering in sodom ) viz. that by reason partly of the remainder of corruption in the best , presenting evill when they should do good , and partly the great grand enemy of our salvation satan , opposing himself to all good , the best that have even renounced their vile life , have an indisposition to holy duties , and have need of excitation and stirring up . again had he not either been to be baptized within by dipping ▪ or been to receive within an aspersion or infusion upon his face only he need not to have bin bid to arise , or stand up in order to either of these , so much as from the present posture he was in , for if he were then sitting , face rantism might have been done as well , and if he were lying down ( which in his then case is the more likely of the two ) much better then in a standing posture , in which t is not so easie to dispence a pouring upon the face , least pouring so little as you do it prove rather a rantism then a baptism , or pouring so much as the baptizer should do on the disciple , if he will needs do it by pouring i. e. till he hath buried him in baptism , or wholly covered him with water , in resemblance of the spiritual , he make way for his bodily buriall in the earth also . whereas therefore mr. blak● saies thus , viz. that though the eunuch coming to the river might saie here 's wa●er what hinders why i should not be dipped , yet there is little probability that paul could say so in iudas his house in straight street in damascus , or the iaylor at his prison in phillippi , i say it is very likely it was so indeed , that they had not any ponds or rivers in their houses , to dip in , but will it follow therefore that they were baptized in the house without dipping ? no such matter by mr. bls. favour , but rather that sith there was not water enough for their dipping within doors , as there was for the eunuchs dipping without , therefore they went out to some water or other that they might be baptized , i. e. dipped conveniently , as the eunuch was , and that may possibly not be farre , for many a one that hath not brooks nor ponds in their houses , yet have them oft not far from their doors , and that iudas had not so who can tell ? but whether he had or no , the matter is not great , sith he lived not far from much water however whilest he was living in damascus , for were not abana and parphar rivers of damascus though not for namans disease , yet for dipping full as good as iordan it self , and all other waters of israel . thirdly , see how miserably mr. baxter is mistaken , he would make men believe , if they would be such idiots , as to take his single word for it , against the expresse word of god , that in the countrey of the iaylor water was so scarce that he could not be dipped over head , whereas ( oh that mr. baxter would see how the lord hath left him to discover his too hasty galloping over the sripture ) it is related that a river ●an just by the same city of phillippi where he dwelt , even that , by the side of which paul preached , and prayer was wont to be made , where also lidy , and her houshold were converted and baptized , and all this no further off then in the very same chapter , where the iaylors baptism is spoken of viz. acts . , , . i perceive this scarcity of water is made a mighty argument among you against dipping , some saying that water for dipping was not to be had in the houses of the disciples that were baptized , therefore they received no more then some aspersion ▪ or infusion within , some speaking as though water for dipping were not to be had in whole cities and countreys where the disciples dwelt , thus doth not onely mr. baxter , who denies a sufficiencie of water for dipping over head to be in that country where the jaylor dwelt , but also senior mr. simpson one of you my ashford opposers , who in a letter under his hand to a neighbor of his ( much of which is partim directe & verbatim partim oblique & collateraliter , out of mr. blake , so that it stands or falls in him , and of the rest that is not translated thence into his turn , some already is , and some that is not yet , is to be spoken to as i go along ) tells us that there was not any water in jerusalem wherein so many as were there baptized , in so short a time , at that time of the year when water was more scanty , could possibly have been dipped . what a strange conceit is this ? what not water enough in nor yet about all ierusalem to dipp a man over head in ? for sith he saies not so many , the same water course i hope that one can be dipped in , may also serve to dipp a thousand ; shall we think that in the greatest drought that could happen all those brooks the scriptures mentions viz. cedron and siloam , and the fountain of gyhon , and the conduit of the upper pool , which ran with several streams , and were at one place all coincident with cedron , were dryed up so that not a place could be found of any competent depth for men to dip in ? but perhaps what mr. baxter saies concerning aenon upon the report of travellers viz. that even the river aenon it self where iohn baptized because there was much water , is found to be a small brook , that a man may almost step over , or as i find it expressed to me in a letter to a neer and deer friend of mine , upon the credit of eye witnesse historians , aenon was but a small purl scarcely knee deep at the deepest , so mr. simpson may say , but it is on his own head if he do , concerning these brooks , that were about ierusalem , to all which i shall for brevities sake dispatch this answer here now i am about it . and first i intreat mr. simpson to consider that this serves not his turn howe-ever , if cedron and siloam , and the rest that were without the city , and the stream also that ran through the city , from the fountain of the old pool into cedron , should be all such as aenon is supposed to be , sith the fishpool bethesda , at which lay a great multitude of impotents , and into which one amongst the rest desired to be put , or cast ( for the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) but could not , was both deeper and broader then so , and convenient for many to dip in at once , for if we may credit bethesda it self , the very name instructs us in no lesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being in english no other then the house of flowing down , so called for the concurrence , and confluence of many waters thereinto , see calvin upon the place , who tells you that it was a pool he thinks , into which water did flow down continually , through either channels or pipes , that the priests ( for it was neer the temple ) might as well be furnisht with water for their sacrifices , as the people were with sacrifices themselves in the sheep market wherein it was ; others think , and as i take it beza in his anotations , that it was a pool at which cattel drank , and in which they used to be plunged ; whereof saith he there could not but be great store in ierusalem : so much may well serve without any more to salve the sore eyes of mr. simpson . as for mr. baxter i le bate him his almost , and yet he will not get much by the matter , for as i have seen others baptized by totall dipping in the like , so was i seen to be baptized my self in a place of so little latitude , that an active man might make shift to step over , not almost but altogether , in which yet there is water enough left behind to baptize a thousand , if not a million more in the same manner , and so , not to say how possible it is , if not a thousand to one that aenons eye witnesses never sounded aenons depth in all places , nor secondly how possibly a brook might be much swerved up since then , & somwhat shallowed in so many generations , nor thirdly how possible it is to deepen the shallowest stream that is very easily in order to such a purpose , for i have seen ancle deep streams so ordered as i speak of , more then once or twice for a need , though that aenon had need to be made deeper in those places , where iohn did baptize , may be twenty times told by some travellers , that love to hear themselves talk , before i shall believe it once ; not to say any thing i say of these , let aenon be but knee deep if you will , experience hath so taught the expedience of knee deep to dip in to my self , and other baptizers that i know , that as we have dipt persons oft where it hath not bin so deep , so , except in such a channel where we cannot well avoid it , we choose now not to go in much deeper . see fourthly how all your three worthies mr. blake , mr. baxter and mr. cook do deceive you , as being indeed deceived themselves , and that in a manner so plain that none but blind seers can look beside it , for though each of the three were alone in each of those other errors , which they severally utter in your last joint quotation , and confident commendation of them , yet ( wo is me may england say that my leaders are so mifled ) the whole trinity of them is at unity , but against all verity in this , even in the very thing in which principally you would have us mind them , for whereas , as an instance that baptism was not by dipping , they all alledge that the iailor was baptized at midnight in his house , and therefore probably not in such a way as dipping , that he was baptized about midnight is true enough , but that he was baptized in his house , is so contrary to truth , that a very child may find the falsenesse of that assertion , for howbeit mr. cook saies plain-ly , it s like the waters they had within doores at midnight sufficed , and mr. baxter more plain-ly , that the iailor was baptized in the night in his house , and mr. blake most plain-ly , t is sure there was not many waters nor rivers in the iailors dwelling , and it is as sure that they i. e. the iailor and the apostles went not out in the night to any such places as were fit to dip in , yet what saith the word in plain truth ? no lesse then this , that the iailor after he was baptized brought them into his house and set meat before them , and rejoiced : for it is said first , that upon the earth-quake , and pauls crying out to him , that he should do himself no harm , the iailor hasted into paul and silas and brought them out , secondly that they upon his then inquiry told him what he should do to be saved , and preached the word to him and all his , whereupon in this intertime , i. e. between the time of the iailors bringing them out , and his bringing them in again , he took them and washed their stripes , and was baptized he and all his straightwav . thirdly , that when he had brought them into his house , which words compared with verse the . where it is said he brought them out , shew clearly that he , and his were with them still without hearing the word , washing them , and submitting to be baptized i. e. immergendo washed of them , he made them eat , and rejoiced : now what man , but one minded to overlook what likes him not , can chuse but see this to the confutation of these three mens opinions ? which i doubt because it is theirs more then any thing else , may be the opinion of : that the iailor first brought them out , and then washed their stripes , and was baptized , and then brought them in , and rejoiced with them is clear . rantist . you have spoke long enough to little purpose to this , for i am not yet of your mind ; pray let us see what you will say to those worthy mens writings , in disproof of the proofs that you have brought . baptist. i come then to consider what is said by either any , or all of these three repugnants in exception against what is said by us for the way of dipping , having spoken already to the first as you desire in its several parts : the next exception i find mr. baxter makes against what we say is this , the word signifies saith he , to wash as well as to dip , and so is taken when applied to other things as mar. the . . . and herein he sums up in short the whole mind of mr. cook and mr. blake also in this matter , who say viz. mr. blake p. the . . to mr. blackwood , that scapula saies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to dip , to drown , and sometimes to wash , the septuagint use the words baptizing , and washing promiscuously ; mr. cook p. . to a. r. much what the very same viz. that baptism signifies washing , and p. . quoting the same scripture mark the . here you have saith he , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to wash . to all which i answer , but briefly , having toucht at this before , who doubts of this that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to wash ? how is it possible that it should not signifie washing so long as it signifies dipping , dipping being no other then a kind of washing ? what ever word signifies properly , and primarily ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth ) to dip , drown , plunge in , overwhelm with , put under water , must needs be supposed secondarily , consequently , and even thereupon to signifie washing , neither does it signifie sometimes onely to wash , as mr. blake observes out of scapula , but it alwayes signifies to wash , there being no dipping , but signifies a washing , dipping being not a dipping onely , but necessarily a washing also ; wherefore very of● baptizing and washing are , and well may be ; promiscuously used each for the other , but what will the men make of all this , that because baptism signifies a kind of washing viz. the washing of its own kind , x or such a washing as dipping , plunging , or swilling is , therefore it signifies all manner of washing : a kind of washing it ever did , but all kind of washing it never did yet signifie since the world stood : a washing by immersion and submersion is the sense on t , a washing by infusion is not , but as for your washing by bare aspersion so far is it from being the true sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that it is no kind of washing at all , yea if you will go critically to work ( as mr. blake would have us ) about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , between which yet there is no such difference , as he imagines , and keep close to the signification of the words , both your petty powring , and your spoil-all sprinkling will be discarded so far from the name of baptizing , that they will not be found to meet it half way , nor on a true account to amount to so much as the name of washing , for that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies originally to dip , plunge or overwhelm , and therefore consequently to wash , we deny not , that being indeed not onely a way , but also the most effectual and usual way of washing : therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometimes promiscuously used with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , both which originally signifie washing , of what kind soever , whether that which is by dipping in water , or rubbing water upon the subject , when they are each applied unto the other , but as for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the one signifies to powre out onely , the other to sprinkle onely , but neither this nor that alone , and abstract from some other concurrent action , as rubbing the water on that 's so applied ( which was never done at any rantizing that ever i saw ) doth yet signifie so much as any kind of washing whatsoever : therefore though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred not onely by mergo , submergo to dip or plunge over head and ears , but also by lavo , abluo to wash clense or wash away , and very fi●ly sith baptizing or dipping is really and truly such a washing , yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred effundo to powre out and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by aspergo , perfundo , irroro , to sprinkle or moisten , as it were with a small dew , but neither of them by lavo , abluo , nor do they signifie such a thing as to wash , nor are they such a thing as washing in any wise , so far are they therefore from bearing the name of baptism , that you may as well render baptizing by rantizing , and say to baptize is to sprinkle , which is a thing that all men in the world cannot shew to be so much as a remote sense of the greek word baptize , as render rantizing by baptizing , that is to say that to sprinkle is to baptize , which likewise can never be shewen to be so much as a remote sense of the word rantize : if therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 come not so neer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as to be adem with it in tertio to be latin● with it into lavo , or to be englisht with it so much as by the name of washing , which is but a secondary sense of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , how will you ever reach your rantism into the name of baptism it self , whose prime signification is submergo i. e. to overwhelm , out of which prime signification that it should be used continually , as you say the spirit uses it in scripture , where all along you strain a point to have it englisht washing , and never overwhelming at all ( for pray where shall it be englisht by the term of overwhelming ? just no where by your good will ) is a piece of simple slipslop to utter . rantist . but mr. blake tells you another tale that i believe will make you eat these words you last declared , for whereas you talk so much of dippings being the prime signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what then ? he p. . saies in way of answer to that , that there is nothing more ordinary then to have words used out of their prime signification . baptist. nothing more ordinary then to have words out of their prime signification ? what a strange extraordinary expression is that ? i dare undertake to shew him something more otdinary then that , and venture to avouch that it is more ordinary to have words used in their prime signification , then out of it , or else i know not how we should handsomely understand one another in any tongue : for howbeit there is now and then a word figuratized besides its proper meaning , yet that a secondary , borrowed , bastard , forraign sense should carry words so quite away from their own proper , direct , prime , proxime , native signification that we must take them in no sense , no not in their genuine sense more ordinarily , then in those secondary senses , is such a peece of senslesse , as will hardly enter into the center of my understanding while i have one , yet so do you dote upon the farre fetcht senses of words , when they onely , though never so untowardly too , may be wrested in ●o serve your turn , that nothing is more ordinary among your selves indeed in such a case , then to shut out the aptest , the amplest acceptions altogether , and force the first senses from having to do at all with those words whose own , whose plainest , whose neerest , whose likeliest , whose chiefest , properest senses they are : and on this wise do you deal with the truest sense and signification of this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which because it signifies sometimes onely , as mr. blake observes ( which is however argumentum ad homin●m ) though i grant it signifies ever , yet onely secondarily to w●sh , therefore , if you may have the vote of it , it must never signifie any thing else , and never be interpreted by its prime signification at all , it signifies i. e. usually , and for the most part and primarily ( for who can take mr blake as meaning otherwise ) to dip or drown &c. and sometimes , quoth he out of scapula , to wash , but if i should ask mr. blake how often he would give it leave throughout the whole new testament to be taken in that sense , which his word sometimes annexed to the sense of washing shewes he takes to be the most usual and common sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. to dip , plunge , or overwhelm , i am afraid he will change his note , and say it signi●ies alvvayes to vvash , and not allovv the sense of it to dip , or plunge so much as sometimes , no not yet so much as once throughout the gospel : yea i demand of him vvhere he dare give vvay to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be construed in its prime sense , i. e. to dip , overvvhelm , or in vvhat one place he vvill be pleased to let us give it any other then the secondary , that onely sometime signification of vvashing ? i doubt it must be contented for him , and all the rantists to be vvithout its neerest , to be stript of its plainest , to be banisht and forct for ever from bearing its truest sense , in all places of the book of god unlesse they may be forc't once to be vvithout their vvills , for in all the scripture that i knovv of , where the vvord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is placed , it is thus displaced from its principall signification by them , so that all our desires to them on its behalf that it may sometimes at least be granted the sense of dipping shall in no vvise prevail for it● ovvn sense to be allovved it : i remember but these places at present vvhere the vvord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , vvhere vvater baptism of persons is spoken of viz. mat. . . . . . . . . mark . . . . . and the . . luke . . . . . luke . . . iohn . ● . . . and the . . . . and the . . . act. . . and the . . . and the . . . . . . and the . . and the . . . and the . . and the . . rom. . . . cor. . . . . . . gal. : . col. . . in vvhich of all these places dare they allovv us the prime signification of the vvord ? not so much as one i dare say , yet scapula quotes but tvvo places viz. mark . luke . vvherein it is taken to vvash , vve vvould be contented to allovv them that not sometimes onely , as they talk of , but that alvvayes it shall signifie to vvash , for dipping indeed being a chief kind of vvashing it cannot be rationally gainsayed , onely ( proh dolor ) vve must not once english it dipping or overvvhelming , no not by any meanes in the world . but sirs , though you are so accustomed to that trick , so that it is to be feared you will be hardly brought off it viz. to have nothing more ordinary among you , then to carry vvords , and specially the vvord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 clearly , and that not sometimes onely , but continually besides its prime sense of dipping , into its farre off sense of vvashing , and into its non-sense of sprinkling ( for it signifies no such thing as that ) yet vve have no such custome , nor the churches of god , but to take vvords ordinarily in the sense vvhich they most properly bear . rantist . but mr. blake denies dousing over head to be the prime signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and tells you p. . that the great criticks in the greek tongue will not allow you your sence to douse over head and years , to be the prime , distingishing between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , making the latter to bear your sense , the former to be a dipping more light and overly , as luke the . and the . it is evidently used . baptist. o that 's another matter he should have said so then at first , for because he talked that words are used out of their prime signification , and among the rest this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the sake of which he saies the other , out of its p●ime signification of dipping , i took it for granted ( and so i might well , for he allowes it to signifie washing in scripture , and what sense is it that he pleads against by that speech , viz. that words are oft used out of their prime significations ? ) i took it i say for granted , and seriously a grant it is if he well examine it , that he took dipping , or overwhelming to be the prime sense of baptism , unlesse almost a page of of his be pennd in vain , and dares he now deny it ? that is worse then all the rest : but i wonder what is if that be not the prime ? for i am sure the prime is not to wash : it is ( quoth he ) a dipping more light and overly then so . to which i say let the persons baptizing dip the persons baptized as lightly and overly as they will so they dipp them , and not some of them barely , for then i know they must do it underly also , for what man is truly to be baptized , that man is to be put under water , not a part of him only , as also what part of a man lesse or greater , yea if it be but the tip of the finger , that he instances in as an overt dipping , is truly to be dipped , must not be dipped so overly as that it is not dipped underly , i mean put truly under water , for else it is not properly a dipping of that part : but i would i could hear some of those criticks ( for he mentions not one of them ) that distinguish him so besides the way of god by their fair false glosses upon the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , making 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only to signify that we stand for i. e. a total overwhelming , and baptizing no more then some dribling kind of darting some part of the subject under water , for verily they are but crackt braind criticks to me , if the lexicons be at all to be heeded : for howbeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signify the same that we saie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , viz. dipping or being under water , and it may be more deeply then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for that is as it were imum petere to go down to the very bottom , yet neither doth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signify any lesse then we say , and that primarily also , viz. at least to put under and overwhelm with water , which is enough for us , or else it would never be rendred by obruo ond submergo , which words if they do not as truly expresse as total a covering with water as subeo , ingredior , which are the senses by which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred then i have as much sense in my heel as my head ; but if those criticks think this no right rendition , let them do the world that right as to take upon them to correct those errata's in the lexicons that are extant , and to turn lexicographers themselves . the third exception of mr. baxter against what hath been before said in proof of dippping is this , viz. the thing signifyed is set forth by the phrase of washing on sprinkling and the sign need not exceed the thing signifyed . and in this fashion argue both mr. blake , and mr. cook especially , out of whose larger drivings home of this head , a man that hath but half an eye may see mr. baxter borrowed most of that little he saies in exception against what we say for dipping ; abridging two or three pages of mr. cook , viz. page , , . into these two or three lines of his , and coting the same scriptures , and no other , and that in the self same order , and no other , then mr. cooke doth , viz. the cor. . . tit. . . heb. . . isa. . . . ioel . . ezek. . . pet. . . heb. . . to which i say it is true , some but not all the things signified , nor yet that which is most immediately signified , and therefore mainly to be resembled , are set forth by the phrase of washing , pouring and sprinkling , and it is as true that the sign need not exceed the thing signified , but the sign need be adaequate to the thing signified , and so is not any kind of washing , but that of dipping under water , nor doth that exceed the thing signified , for that which is the main matter , the signandum or the radical matter to all the rest , is the death , burial and resurrection of christ , and ours spiritually with him , which things are no way analogized in sprinkling and pouring , but onely by a burial under water , and bringing up again , which yet are the only things that these three men plead to have left unsignifyed , and unrepresented in the sign , but we must have them all not only signified , but also , as much as may be , lively pictured out in the sign of baptism , this cannot be by infusion or aspersion , for they are too narrow to resemble all , but they may be and are in submersion and immersion , for these are neither too narrow , nor too wide , but just adaequately resembling the signata , there must be a sufficiency in the sign to the end saies mr. cook p. namely to represent the spirituall grace , though yet p. . he knew not any word of god , wherein this representation is necessarily either expressed or implied . now the whole spiritual grace being the death , burial and resurrection of christ , together with all the benefits thereof , viz. the washing of our souls from guilt as to justification , from filth as to sanctification , as by the blood of christ sprinkled and his spirit poured , respect must be had that , as neer as can be , all these must be represented , and that the elements and actions be neither so overmuch , as may take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing , as we might easily do if we should do more then dipp under , and raise up , or should hold so long under water as almost to suffocate the subject , nor yet so little , as mr. cook saies well , as not clearly to represent the spiritual grace the whole spiritual grace being therfore all these things forenamed , care must be had that they be all analogized , as far as it is possible , and ●specially the main , which is fundamental to all the rest , viz. christs death , burial and resurrection ; for this however ought to be done , nor ought the other altogether to be left undone , but if sprinkling be the way then the main thing is left undone , for there is no representation of christs death , buriall and resurrection . rantist . and if totall dipping be the way , then many things are left undone , for there is no representation of the blood of sprinkling , and the spirits powring . baptist. not so neither with your leave , for howbeit in bare infusion , and aspersion death , burial and resurrection are excluded , yet in submersion and emersion , both pouring and sprinkling are concluded , the greater wettings containing in , and under them the lesse , but the lesse no way reaching to the other . moreover that remission of sins by the blood of christ sprinkled is represented sufficiently in emersion , as well as in aspersion , not so the death , burial and resurrection in aspersion consult a learned author for this , that was for asspersion as well as your selves , though i believe he saw submersion to be the better way , i. e. bucan , who in page . as i have hinted above saies thus , viz. illa in aquam mersio , sive aspersio perspicue denotat rantismon , id est , aspersionem sanguinis christi in peccatorum remissionem , & justitiae imputationem ; mora autem &c. so that we see he counted submersion , though it exceed that one part of the thing signified , viz. christs blood sprinkled , yet to signify , & represent that vertually as well as other things ; i conclude therefore notwithstanding any exceptions that either mr ba. mr. cook or mr. blake hath put in hitherto against what hath been said by us in proof that baptism was by dipping in the primitive time , that that was the way of baptism then . rantist . but mr. blake hath many more arguments then those you have yet spoken to whereby he cleerly evinces it , that baptism was not only by dipping then : i hope we shall have your answer to them too , and the rather because they are of some weight , and therefore you are the more willing to slip by them : first ( saith he ) if the way of baptism were only dipping , then the baptizer must put the baptized over head in the water , and after a space receive them up again , otherwise he could not say in your sense i baptize thee , but we read of no such thing any where in scripture , we find christ and the eunuch going to the water and coming thence , but neither john nor philip putting them into the water or taking them from thence p. . baptist. i strange that mr. blake should grant as he doth above p. . that philip and the eunuch are fitly said to go into the water , and yet say so shortly after , we find no more then their going to the water , and from it again ; how fitly can they be said to go into the water and out of it , that go but to and from it i have shewed already , but t is more strange to me that he should so far forget himself , as to say we read of no such thing in scripture as of iohn and phillips putting christ and the eunuch into the water , or taking them from thence , for we read plainly that christ was baptized of iohn into iordan , and in iordan , and we read that philip and the eunuch went down both into the water , and philip baptized him , and that christ came up out of the water , and that philip and the eunuch came up out of the water , if all this be not partly an expression , partly an implication of the same thing that mr. blake saies we no where read of , then i shall never trust my spectacles more , for what shall we think was done to christ by iohn when it is said he was baptized by him into iordan , if he was not dipped , overwhelmed put under the water ? was he sprinkled into iordan ? and what shall we think philip did to the eunuch when it is said he baptized him , after they were both gone down into the water , if he did not put him under it ? did he no more then sprinkle , or pour a few drops of water on him ? either of those might have been done as easily , and more if they had never gone into the water , yea if they had never went so much as to the water at all ; and when it is said of christ and the eunuch that they came up out of the water , is it not necessarily implyed ( and therefore what need it be expressed ) that iohn and philip , who put them under the water did take them up again after a space , and not hold them alwaies under it ? for if they had , how they could have come up out of it i know not . had mr. blake therefore more believed the scripture , then he did mr. cook , from whom he borrowed this argument ( and lent it again to mr. simpson of bethersden , or else mr. simpson stole it , for without any cotation of mr. blake he hath it word for word in that forenamed letter of his , which he desired should be communicated ) he would not have transpenn'd mr. cooks matter , who saies p. . of his there is not the lest hint that john doused , cast or plunged christ into the water , and took him out of the water , into another phrase viz. we read of no such thing any where in scripture that john and philip put christ and the eunuch into the water , and took them up again , but it is your fashion to follow by implicit faith , and to take up things at a venture by tradition one from another as the people do from you . rantist . now you talk of dipping under water , and taking up thence again , i pray tell me how it is possible for the baptizer to dip the whole baptized under water , and to lift him up again above the water ? sith for this the strength of more men then one is necessary : perhaps you will say the person to be baptized may be an assistant , and an agent in the businesse so far himself as to go into the water , and stand there up to the middle , and then to yield the rest of his body to be put under by the administrator ; but this is for a man for the most part to dip himself , and divinity doth not admit of se-baptism , and permits not the baptized to be agents , but in this act will have them to be patients , and baptized by others ; is there any command for them to go into the water ? baptist. i think mr. simpson of bethersden , and you have laid your heads together , you jump so right in one mind in this matter , for in this manner , and almost in the very same words doth he speak in that letter of his i spake of above , divinity admits not say you of se-baptism &c. what your sinodical divinity admits of as good baptism i weigh not , and what you call se-baptism i know not , but if you call that self-baptizing for the baptized to go with the baptizer into the water , and there submit himself to be overwhelmed in the water by the hands of the administrator putting him under , the scripture admits of such a se-baptism as this , and if we had no command for acting so far in order to our own baptism , yet we have president so plain as is equivalent , witnesse the eunuch that went down with philip into the water , and yet ( saving your ignorance , which permits not the baptized to be agents ) paul had command to be so farre an agent in order to his baptism as to do more then barely sit still viz. to arise , and put himself in a posture suitable to that purpose , neither can you totally deny him to be truly baptized and overwhelmed in water according to the will of christ ( and that is sufficient ) that betakes himself not onely to the water , but also so farre into it , that the dispenser may conveniently put him under it , unlesse you suppose that the dispenser of old did carry the disciple in upon his back , and then dash him in against his will , and that were in the disciple the part of a proper patient indeed ; besides doth the condemned mans being agent , and assistant so far toward the cutting off of his head , as to ly down , and fit his neck to the block make him a se-slayer , or accessary so far to his own death that you can properly call him a murtherer of himself ? what dribling divinity is this ? rantist . mr. blake saies further that if the scripture way of baptizing were thus to dip or drown them , the baptizer and baptized must both put off their garments , and lay them aside for that businesse , but we find no such thing mentioned , we find saith he , one i● the new testament stoned , and the laying aside of the garments of the witnesses is more then once mentioned , but among all the multitudes that were baptized there is not one word of unclothing for that end , nor yet of the putting on of garments after baptism , when yet sometimes there had been all reason for the mention of it , as in the case of paul , of whom after he was baptized , it is said he received meat , and was strengthned , but not that apparell was put on him , nor dry and warm clothes applied to him , which we should sure have heard of , if he had bin dipt over head in water . baptist. if by putting off of clothes mr. blake mean , as it appears he doth by his talk of naked dipping in the same place , such a putting them off as is in order to putting on others fit for such a purpose in their stead , i know not onely no necessity , but no modesty also in such a divestment ; nor yet does mr. tombes i dare say , though in his expressions viz. that in former dayes it was thought no immodesty , and that there is no necessity that persons be dipt naked , mr. baxter is so abominably uningenuous as to wrest his words into such base and sinister senses , and to abuse him to the world as if he had meant it was no immodesty in old time to be dipt naked , and as if he held it lawfull to be dipt naked , though not necessary , when ingenuity of judgement , and such love as he pretends to mr. tombes would have construed his meaning to be this , viz. that it was counted no immodesty in former times , though it be now by mr. baxter , to be dipt in that way , wherein we are dipt , which is not naked , as mr. baxter bruits it , and that it is not necessary to be dipt naked , as mr. blake mr. baxter and mr. cook think it is , if persons be baptized by a totall dipping ; and as for the scriptures mentioning of the putting off , and on of their clothes in their addresses to , and dresses after baptism , there was not onely no necessity , but at all no expediency in the mention of such a matter : yea both reason and nature it self suggesting how needful that was to be done , it would have been very vain and superfluous to have talked on it : as for the double mention that is made viz. by luke acts . . of the witnesses that stoned stephen laying aside their garments at the feet of a young man , whose name was saul , who is said acts . . to be consenting to his death , and also by paul himself act. the . . confessing to god his persecutions , and how when the blood of the martyr stephen was shed he was standing by and consenting to his death , and kept the raiment of them that shew him , mr. blake cannot be so silly as to think that that clause concerning those mens clothes was put in as a piece remarkable , or worth recording of it self , or in any other respect in the world , save for this end onely as it was an expression of the malice , that saul , who was afterward converted and called paul , did at that time bear against the truth , for surely had there not been that good reason wherefore , the laying aside of their clothes had not been worth our notice , nor should it ever have been mentioned simply for it self sake ; but now there was no such weighty end as this , nor any end , or purpose at all in order to which it was needfull to mention the circumstance of their clothing , and unclothing about the administration of baptism , it is enough that we have recorded of the thing in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. that , and how , and why it was done , but it would have been frustraneous , and even every way endlesse to have minded us of such impertinent appertenances to baptism as the dressing and undressing of the disciples : if any one tell me a story that such and such infants were sprinkled at such places , is not that relation sufficient , and compleat unlesse he tell me how the infants were drest in their blankets , and what a fi●ling was made by the midwife , and the minister about the unpinning and turning up of their face clothes ? is not the story of naamans washing himself seven times in iordan full enough to our use , because there is no mention of his putting off and on ? christ washt his disciples feet , and wiped them , it may well be supposed they put off their shoes first , and put them on again , yet there is no mention of that : mr. blake , thinks that among all the multitudes that were baptized there must have been some words about their unclothings , and clothings , and specially that there was reason that we should have heard that paul had dry and warm clothes put on him after his baptism , as well as mention of meat given him , if he had been baptized by immersion , because he had been weak ; but what crude conceits are all these ? it was related that he was weak through fasting three daies , and that was but proper , and answering to the other to tell how after he eat his meat , and gathered strength , but the other must have come in ( for ought i see ) without either sense or reason : and sith he stranges that among so many baptized , no mention should be made of their preparations viz. the seponing , and resuming their garments , i wonder what mention he finds of the accommodations that those multitudes had that were circumcised in abrahams family in one day , and in the city of the shechemits , and those thousands in the wildernesse , after the long cessation , both before and after circumcision ? and yet that was such a tedious bloody , sore , and painfull piece of service , as required ( no question ) ten times more attendance with clothes and other accomplishments till it was whole , then this of baptism , even in that so troublesome way to you wherein we dispense it . rantist . but pray give me leave a little : now we talk of their cloaths , i remember that no sooner was christ come out of the water , but immediately the spirit drove him into the wilderness , the spirit of the lord caught away philip and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing , act. . whence i argue thus , viz. if they put off their cloathes they did not stay to put them on , but went away naked , if they had them on , then being as you say , dipped over head and ears , they must have worn them wet , but the first had been unseemly , the later prejudiciall to their health . baptist. well argued mr. simpson again : as sure as can be you have got his arguments by root of heart , for these also are mr. simpsons very words in that letter of his above mentioned . rantist . whose argument this is it matters not , i suppose it is past your answer , and here is reason enough in it to disprove christ and the eunuchs total dipping , as a meer groundlesse and reasonlesse conjecture , and crotchet of your own coming , or if you have any thing to say to it i pray let us have it out of hand . baptist. reason say you ? it were well if there were so much as common sense in it , for my part i suppose it a senselesse fancy , but i am sure there is so little truth in the ground of it , that its stark rotten at the very root : it is a dispute ex falso su●positis , t is taken by you for granted as necessary , when it shall never be yielded to by us for so much as probable , that christ and the eunuch were baptized either naked or else in the cloathes they ware immediately both before or after either : for both christ ( comming purposely to be baptized ) and the eunuch though not thinking of baptism till philip met him , yet returning homeward from jerusalem , where he had been for some time , were undoubtedly accommodated otherwise , and with change sutable enough to such a businesse . secondly , it supposes that both christ , philip and the eunuch , posted all so immediately several waies from the water , that they staied not so much as to cover themselves with other cloathes , then those they went with into , and came up with out of the water : whereas , as nature it self forbids us to believe they went in , much more that they went away naked , for common sense forbids us to take the word immediately in so strict a sense , as to think they departed in such extremity of hast as was no way consistent with the shifting , and so fitting of themselves for departure : immediately doth seldome sound forth such a suddennesse as admits of no intertime , nor invening action at all : yea sometimes it signifies no sooner then some howers , some daies , some years after , according to the nature of the matter asserted in the sentence wherein it hath its use , as matth . . nor doth it expresse any other in mark . . where it is said immediately the spirit drave christ into the wildernesse , then within a while after his baptism , as appears not only by matth. . . where it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which word is there [ peractis praedictis ] ordinative of another story , but specially by luke . . where it s said plainly that he was returned from iordan , before it is said he was led into the wildernesse : and had you or mr. simpson , compared scripture with scripture , or heeded the harmony of the evangelists , you had saved your selves the labour of all those lines , and lost nothing by it but what is worth nothing , viz. the argument it self , for as if i should say immediately after the child was sprinkled the gossips and friends went along with it home , it were absurd to understand me so , as if i meant that they did not stay so long after , as to wipe the childs face , and put the face cloathes over it , and lap it up again in the loose blanket to keep it warm : so no lesse absurdity is it to understand that speech , viz. and immediately the spirit caught away philip , and immediately after christ was baptized he went in to the wildernesse , so strictly as if there was not staying so much as to reassume any garments they had laid aside , in order to the more conveniency of their baptizing . one thing more i cannot but take notice of in this clause as t is mr. simpsons and that is what little proportion , if not contradiction , it holds with the words of mr. simpson ( or rather of mr. blake used by mr. simpson ) immediately precedent to these in his letter , for he will not give way to it at any hand that christ and the eunuch went into the water , or at least that they were put into the water by iohn and philip , or taken thence , but onely in the phrase of mr. blake , at the third hand of mr. cook , that they went to the water , and came thence , and yet here he forgets himself so far as to the confutation of himself and them to speak 〈◊〉 the phrase or scripture concerning christ and the eunuch , viz. that they came out of the water , which if they could do , and neither went into it , nor were put into it , then i know not how to understand plain english. rantist . well this is all but by the businesse , let us go on and consider what more mr. bl. brings to disprove dipping to be the primitive custome , he tells you further p. . it was the apostles way to baptize disciples as soon as they were become converts the same day , rather sometimes the same houre , as we see in the eunuch , the jaylor , and lydia , and multitudes of others ; but conversion of disciples necessarily happened when there was no season for dipping , the element of water being over cold for that service . if any object that in those countreyes there was no danger in the coldest times . he answers , the commission being for all nations disciples were made in all countreys ; how soone saith he came the word to this nation ? &c. sometimes therefore saith he the water and weather was too cold for dipping . secondly , the number of converts were so numerous , . in one day that there was no possibility of baptizing in that manner , acts . . and the . thirdly , sometimes the baptizers were in that condition that they were unable for that work in that way , as paul and silas men newly taken out of the stocks in the inner prison , with such stripes that their convert was fain forthwith to wash them , in this case they were unfit to wade into the water for that work , and had they made any such adventure the scripture would not have been silent . fourthly , sometimes the baptized have not been in case for dipping and plunging , which was pauls case upon the aparition of the vision he was lead into damascus , where he continues without meat or drink three daies , and upon ananias his comming in , and instructing of him he is baptized , and when he had received meat , saith the text , he was strengthned , will any believe he went out in this case with ananias into the water , over head in water before the taking of any sustenance ? baptist. that persons were baptized as soon as ever they became converts , and could be discerned to be disciples , even the same houre commonly without delay is an undeniable truth , for that and no other was the very period of time at which , what ever their parents were , they were deemed to have true title to baptism : for neither if their parents were wicked were such excluded as were , nor if the parents were godly , were such admitted as were not converted upon the account of the fathers goodnesse or badnesse , but as they believed or not themselves , and this makes me the more amazed at it , that it is come to passe since that the faith of the father can now intitle the child to baptism , though the child have no faith at all of his own , and yet i muse more sith you all count infants , at least of believers , to be disciples from the womb , why yet you delay their baptism so long , and do it not at the same houre of their birth : for whether they be discipuli nati , or discipuli facti if they be disciples ( as you falsly suppose they are ) if the primitive rule were to baptize persons as soon as ever they appeared to be disciples , then ( unlesse you have any special instinct , whereby you know them to begin to be disciples , and in the faith , as many of you count them , about that very houre you baptize them in , and not before ) you will appear to be a little tardy in your dispensations by your own rule , though in truth you are too hasty for all this . now as to mr. blakes terrible conceit , concerning the coldnesse of the water , specially in some weather , when yet , if dipping were the way , there would by means of mens conversion , occasion be ministred to dip in , sith i see occasion will be ministred to discourse more of winter dipping , when i come to mr. baxters grand arguments , with one of which this is coincident , i shall say nothing to it here , but there speak to both under one , save only that i must here tell mr. blake that conversion of disciples necessarily happened when there was no season for dipping without danger , the climate being , by reason of persecutions that rose against that way , much more over hot then the element of water can at any time be over cold , for the owning of that servi●e , must it therefore be forborn for fear of hazarding our lives ? if no exemption from a hotter service , why from a colder for the lifes sake ? which whoever will save shall loose , but whoever will loose for christs name sake , and the gospels shall preserve it to life eternal : as for the rest under that head i fully agree with it viz. that whatever that is , there is commission but for one manner of baptism for all nations . as to the multitude of converts three thousand , five thousand converted in one day , which shift word for word mr. simpson covers his nakednesse with , adding thus much thereunto , viz. could peter and those few with him the dispensers of this ordinance have stayed so long in the water , or by dipping every one dipped so many in so short a time ? i answer how many and in how short a time does the man mean ? as for the it is doubtful whether they were all converted in that one day , or whether he speaks not rather of the whole multitude that believed before , which were together with those that afterward were added , which might be some and so in all ; but if there were fullly that then believed , and that they were all at the same time baptized too , which is not said , and t is more probable ( for done it must be ) that t was done at another time , or else by other hands then by peter and iohns , for they were laid hold on in the temple as they were speaking , but suppose i say that there be at any time full five thousand newly believing in so short a time as one day , if they could not be baptized all in one day they must necessarily , they might lawfully for ought i know stay till the next , but yet we read were baptized in one day , neither is it such an impossible thing as you , who stumble at every straw , are slugg'd by every rub , and look on duty with such difficulty , as if a lyon were in the way , would seem to make it , for to be baptized in one day ; multorum manibus grande levatur opus , multorum manibus grande levatur onus , many hands of them that have love to christ may both lessen , and lighten that service , and suffering that is sustained for him , and make burthensome performances , ( and such i perceive it is to you tenderlings , that make provision for the flesh to fullfill it in the ease thereof , to dipp many , or be dipped your selves in cold water , or weather ) possible , easie , and pleasant , and how many hands there might be at work at once at the dipping of the besides the hands of the . who as occasion was made use of others to dispense the ordinance , it being an inferiour work to their preaching , see act. the . act. . cor. . may be conjectured , when the number of disciples were a hundred and twenty , where if there were but forty dispensers , with what ease might they baptize a a piece , and do themselves no more wrong neither with abiding in the water , knee deep , or a little more for half an hour together , then he that stands deeper for almost a day together , and washes many a hundred sheep , as i have known some do , and that not by plunging onely , but longer padling with each of them by farre then need be in onely dipping persons , and so letting them go again ; besides when once were baptized , how many hands there were ready to baptize not onely , but times if occasion were , and that quickly too , is evident to any rational man that reckons it ; for it is a work which when it is once ready to be done , is done in lesser time , then i have seen taken up by the parish priest in his dropping , and crossings , and other font fidlings about an infants face : and if you suppose it may ask so much hand for so many persons in so short a time as one day to make themselves ready for such a work , i hope the same time that serves one to undresse and dresse in , which may be some a quarter , or at most not above half an hour , may as easily serve ten thousand , for as if all set at once to sweep every one his own door , a whole city may be clensed in an instant , so every one that is willing addressing himself to the work , a thousand may be ready as soon as one . and as for that other conceit of mr. blake , which mr. simpson transcribes out of his book into his own letter in these words viz. that paul when he was baptized by ananias was not in case by reason of his weaknesse to be plunged in water over head and ears , as he was not by reason of his stripes to have gone in a deep river or pond , when he baptized the iaylor , it is as wisdomlesse as any of the rest , for what if he were taken out of the stocks in the inner prison & had such stripes that his convert was fain to wash them , was he therefore so unfit , or was it such a strange adventure ( as mr. blake proclaimes it ) to wade in the water for such a work as the dipping a few persons ? could that water that toucht his legs while he waded , be more mischievous to him , then the water that washed the blood of his stripes ? and when he was baptized himself , what though he had fasted three daies from food in that sudden extasie of his mind , which time its like he spent in fasting and prayer to the lord , for behold he prayeth saith the text , yet i trow , as dainty of danger as our clergy men are , that dare dip their fingers , but not their feet in cold water for christ , that voluntary keeping under of his body did rather fit , then unfit him for burial with christ in baptism , which his proud flesh would else not have stoopt to . surely sirs you are men that make so much of every little for christs sake , that crosses and diseases your flesh , that you will hardly ever commend your selves as the ministers of christ did of old cor. . . . &c. cor. . . . in much patience , in afflictions , yea in necessities , in stripes and imprisonments , in tumults , in crossings , in labours , in perils of waters , in wearinesse , in painfulnesse , in watchings often , in hunger and in thirst , in fastings often , in cold and nakednesse , in indurance of hardship as good souldiers of christ tim. . which sith you decline with all the might you can , rather then expose your selves freely to for truths sake , therefore ( the lord have mercy upon your persons ) your ministeriall capacity will be cashiered . rantist . well what if it was so in the primitive times , that total dipping was the custome , must it therefore needs be so now ? will it follow that we must follow their fashion in that particular ? there may be sundry reasons , whereupon they might baptize in such a manner then , and yet no reason at all why we should tie our selves to the same . baptist. if it was so ? what do you speak suppositively of it still ? nay verily i hope you will not be so obstinate as to deny , for all your gainsaying it hitherto , but that it was so then , for sure enough it was otherwise then in that way of sprinkling , or powring , nose dripping or face dipping either , which are in use amongst you ; and , keep it out at swords point as long as you can , yet you will be forct to yield to it in the end , when you consider , that your own par●y are fain to flag so far in this case , as to confesse it , for not onely tilenus reacheth us , that heretofore submersion was the way of baptizing , rather then aspersion , but dr. featley also furnishes us ( as i have shewed above ) with as much as we desire , and if it be once granted ( as it is in a manner already by not a few , if not all but mr. blake , why else do they trouble themselves , and the world to render reasons why it might be by submersion in the primitive ages and places of baptizing , but not so now ? ) i know no reason worth a rush , on which we can be held excused from baptizing by submersion as they did : rantist . t is true it is confest by some , and if it were granted by all that baptism was then by dipping it were not so material to your cause , nor would you get so much ground by it , sith both such as flatly agree to it , and such as see not cause to agree to it so fully as some do , are all agreed in the grand reason why it was so then , and why it may not be so now at any hand viz. the different temper of those climates , wherein baptism first began , and of ours , wherein it now is practised , theirs being so hot , that there could be no danger by dipping in the coldest times , ours so cold , that it cannot but be very dangerous , if not destructive to life and health . i grant saith dr. featly that christ and the eunuch were baptized in the river , and that such baptism of men especially in the hotter climates hath been , is , and may lawfully be used , but the question is whether no other baptizing is lawfull ? or whether dipping in rivers be so necessary to baptism , that none are accounted baptized , but those that are dipped after such a manner ? usitatior olim fuit &c. submersion was more usual in judea and other warmer countreys saith tilenus then aspersion , notwithstanding sith submersion may prove prejudicious to the health , specially of such tender infants , as for the most part are baptized now a dayes , we suppose the church may use which she pleases , and saies mr. baxter , if it were otherwise in the primitive times , it would be proved but occasionall from a reason proper to those hot countreys ; and saith mr. cook though it were granted that in those hot countreys they commonly washed by going down into the water , and being dipped there , whether in ordinary , or ceremonial , or sacramental washing , that will no more inforce on us a necessity of observing the same in baptism now , then the example of christ , and the apostles gesture in the sacrament of the supper , ties us to the same ; which was leaning , and partly lying , which was their usual table gesture then , now the ordinary table gesture which is usual among us , is most fit , so the usual manner of washing among us is most fit to be observed in baptism , and that is by powring as well as by dipping : so you see these men are all of a mind , that is was , or at least might be so possibly in the primitive times , but if it were , yet not so in ours , in regard of the coldnesse of our climate . baptist. then it seems we shall have it amongst you pro confesso that in the apostles dayes the way was dipping , for though mr. cook keeps a loof off in his hypotheticals , saying , though it were granted , and mr. baxter , who borrowes well nigh all he saies against dipping from mr. cook , cookes it out but conditionally , saying , if it were otherwise , yet tilenus takes our part plainly , and the dr. drawes neerer to us then so , giving it for gone that in those hot countryes baptism in rivers was then used , onely whether such manner of dipping in rivers be so necessary to baptism in all countreyes , this we say saies he is false , and so for ought i see you say all . but sirs first , i pray tell me from the very bottom of your consciences , whether you can conceive that christ hath appointed two sorts of baptism viz. one kind of baptism for iudea , and those regions round about iordan , and another for england , scotland , france , spain , italy , and all the regions round about of the romish christendom ? whether he hath ordained two baptisms , or rather two different dispensations , whereof one is not baptism , to be used in different places , viz. baptism for the hot countryes ; and rantism for the cold ? or whether he hath not rather wild one onely baptism , and that a true one , to be used throughout the world , dr featley , mr. cook , mr. baxter suppose the first , but where 's mr. blake all this while their wonted coadiutor in the cause ? verily he leaves them a little here , and lends us his hand , who hold that christ gave order , and commission for no more then one way of baptism in all nations ; for howbeit he finds in his heart to let rantism passe for currant baptism among them that take the liberty to maintain , and use it for fear of cold p. ▪ yet whatever way of baptism the commission was given out for in those hotter countryes , whether submersion or infusion , ( for aspersion he ownes not to be it however ) the very same way , and no other , he holds the commission to be for in the coldest nations under heaven ; and this will appear if what he saies in his . p. be considered , where after he had used this argument to prove that total dipping was not the way of the primitive baptism viz. because the conversion of disciples , and so consequently their baptism hapned sometimes to be , when there was no season for dipping , the element of water being over cold for that service , he speaks thus in way of answer to an objection viz. if any object that in those hotter countryes there was no danger in the coldest times , i answer saith he , the commission being for all nations , disciples were made in all countries : how soon came the word to this nation ? &c. in which words he is void of common sense that doth not discern mr. blake siding with us , saying that the way of baptism should be one in all ages , and places , and asserting quite contrary to his fellow disputers against dipping , so far as to confute them to our hands , for whereas they all uno ore with one consent cry out that the reason why they baptized by dipping in the primitive time was because judea and the regions round about were hot countryes , but england is a colder climate , and therefore we need not baptize the same way as they d●d : he tells them plainly that the heat of those countries could be no reason why they should use totall dipping then , more then other nations , because the commission for baptizing was one and the same , to all nations , and disciples were then made in all countryes , as well as in iudea , in cold countries as well as in hot , yea how soon saies he , came the word to england it self ? baptism therefore in his account should be the same in england as in iudea , not by dipping in iudea more then in england because that was a hot country and this a colder , but the commission is a like in all places cold and hot , this is the sense those words of his sound forth , but if mr. blake were silent in this case , the scripture speaks loud enough , that there is but one baptism for all nations , and no rantism ordained for any , for then the commission must include christs willingnesse to dispense with colder climates in this point , and in our understandings at least run thus viz. go and teach all nations , baptizing them that live in hotter countryes , and rantizing them that live in colder climates ; he that believeth , and is baptized , if he live in iudea , or any hoter countrey , or is but rantized if he live in england , or any cold countrey shall be saved , in which silly unsound sense to understand those scriptures is to be silly indeed , and without either sense or understanding : and yet thus it may be understood if this be the reason why they in iudea must be dipt , and we in england must be no more then sprinkled for fear of danger viz. because iudea was a warm countrey , and england a cold one : for either christ did ordain the thing to be done in this different manner in different regions , or he did not , if he did then it must be first some way or other intimated in the commission , but there it is not , and secondly it must be done accordingly in this different manner in the execution , or else they are high transgressors that do but rantize in iudaea , and they high transgressors ( and so mr. blake and mr. cook say they are with a witnesse , but will never prove it . ) that baptize by total dipping in england ; but if he did not ordain it to be done in such several waies in several regions , according as they are hotter or colder , but in one way only in all places , then that one way is by baptizing , i. e. dipping onely , or else by rantizing onely ; and if by baptizing onely , then they are high undertakers that take upon them to correct christs commission saying t is better , and safer to rantize only in some places ; if by rantizing onely , then ( non tutum est ludere cum sa●ris ) they were vain persons that made a maygame , and matter of pleasure of the ordinances of christ , that in iudaea and the hotter countreys would chuse to be baptized for delight and coolnesse sake by totall dipping , and bathing in water , rather then otherwise , when christ ordained no more then sprinkling , or infusion . secondly , sirs you grant so much as to say possibly , probably it might be done by dipping in iudaea , and the hot regions round about , but may not be in these colder , pray tell me from the bottom of your consciences without stifling them , or shuffling with them , so as not to suffer them to speak , what constructions must be made of those scriptures , which we have canvast to and fro , which relate the manner of their baptizings that then were , viz. matth. . . mark . . . act. . . where it is said of the people and christ , that they were baptized in iordan , into iordan , went down into the water , and came up out of the water , yea were buried with christ in baptism rom. . collo . . yea and of all the other scriptures , that tell us of the baptism that was dispensed in those hot countries as iohn . . act. . . . . . where it is said iohn baptized in aenon because there was much water , and paul went out to a rivers side , and spake the word , at which time lidya and hers were baptized , and a while after the jaylor and his , tell me i say what construction all these , and all the scriptures that talk of baptism , as dispensed in those hot countryes , must consequently bear , if it be once granted that such total dipping was the manner of baptizing in the primitive times in those hotter countreys , must they not then needs have the senses we put upon them , viz. that christ and the rest did really descend into the water , were buried under the water , and raised again , and not those forced senses , into which you would rest them to your own ends , viz. that they went but to the water , and there were wetted onely by sprinkling , or pouring , and from the water again without going into it , or being dipped in it ? if you give us one for granted , viz. that in iudaea and those hot countreyes , as rome , phillippi , and collosse the manner of baptizing was by going down into the water , and being dipped therein in this sacramental washing , you must necessarily give up also all the interest that you claim in those scriptures for sprinkling , they being no other then the relation of what baptism was done in iudea , and those hot coun-countreys , and not what was done in cold ▪ if then it be supposed that baptism by submersion , and not aspersion , was the custome in the scripture times , it must semblably be supposed that the scriptures themselves , that story out the baptism of those times do speak of that manner of baptism that then was , and not of another , unlesse we suppose it must be interpreted as speaking of another thing , then that it only speaks of , and so consequently this scripture , this testament must be supposed to be wholly on our sides , and to speak only of mens baptism by submersion , and you must suppose out some new testament of christ , if you can tell where , for the exemplifying of your baby baptizing . rantizing . and further had you chanced to be born , and bred in such hot countryes where dipping is the custome , as you happened to come out in such a cold climate where for fear of cold , more then any thing else , that is to warrant such a practise , the custome is onely to sprinkle , i appeal to your own consciences , whether such a thing as rantizing would once have come into your minds upon the single search of those scriptures ? thirdly , whereas you talk of dipping as the way of baptizing in those hot countreyes , both mr. baxter and mr. cook also p. . assert that in those hot countrys waters for dipping were scarce and rare , and could not be had in some places in a great distance , and therefore , if sprinkling or pouring only must be used in some countreyes , and dipping in other some , in all reason and likelyhood , if any places may be exempted from dipping , sprinkling should be dispensed with rather in those hot countreyes to save people the paines of travelling so far as they must do for dipping , where the waters were at such a distance from them , and dipping rather appointed to be used in these countreyes , where the service , as it is not much more tedious then it was in iudaea , at least in coldest , and sharpest seasons , so may it be moderated as touching the tediousness therof , by being done and dispatcht through the vicinity of waters here not very far off from our own doors . fourthly , even those hot countryes of iudaea , rome , and the regions therabout were not within the torrid zone , nor so hot , but that if cold water would have quenched love to christ , and pretence of danger discharg'd from duty , they might have been as shy as your selves of being dipped in water , for even there the waters ( saies mr. blak● ) was over cold for such a service , and also this colder countrey ( as you count it ) of england is under the tepid zone , and not so exceeding cold in summer seasons , but that dipping may be as well digested then , as in iudaea , or as it is by such as then washed themselves in way of pleasure . this hot countrey catch therefore is an argument that flashes fairly in the pan and makes a report with a powder , for almost every one le ts fly at us out of this engine , but verily it is an empty engine , a piece discharged to keep cold countrey christians from killing themselves with christs service , but charged with no great store of truth nor sense , nor reason : wherefore sirs if the coldnesse of this service of total dipping do cause you to stand so coldly affected toward it as not to submit to it here in england , unlesse the climate were a little hotter , yet at least let us , who by dipping as weak folks as your selves in winter have experienced how tollerable it is , through christ strengthening us , for christs sake to be with paul in cold and perills of water , ( so you suppose t is to be dipped ) as well as in other hardship : let us , i say , who are willing to venture on the way of dipping , proceed without your offence , and as for us we shall in order to your good be so far offended at your neglect of it , as uncessantly to call upon you and yours , to repent and be so baptized every one of you in the name of the lord iesus for the remission of sins , till you can shew us ( as i am sure you never will ) his letters pattents for your exemption . rantist . but mr. cook forces this argument further yet , and tells you that their custome of being dipped enforces us to the same , no more then the gesture that christ used at supper binds us to the same , you are willing to overlook that perhaps having little or nothing to say to it , but i pray take all along with you as you go , and be not so partial as to pick out what is easiest to be answered , and let the rest alone . baptist. as for that poor piece of sustenance , that mr. cook affords beyond all the rest toward the further improvement of this exception which from the hea● of those countryes you make against the example of dipping in the primitive times , it hath no substance in it , whereupon your cause can possibly live , for though he saies their going into the water then , and being dipped therein no more inforces us to observe the same in baptism , then the example of christ , and his apostles gesture in the supper , which was leaning and partly lying , ties us to the same : but as the table gesture of sitting now in use among us is fittest for the supper , so the usuall way of washing , which is by powring as well as dipping is fittest to be observed in baptism . yet i desire mr. cook to consider these things , first , that if the priesthood had but any such clear example of their being sprinkled in the primitive times , as we have of their going down into the water , and being dipt there , they would inforce us with more then arguments to an observation of the very same , yea how hardly have we escaped being inforced by them from dipping , though they have not an inch of instance for their sprinkling ? secondly , there is a vast difference between an example in point of circumstance , and meer gesture about a service , and the very substance of the service it self , variation from christs example in the first is naught enough , but in the other worse then nothing ; yet even such is your degeneration from dipping to sprinkling , from baptism to rantism viz. not a variation from some certain circumstance in that one matter of baptism , but a variation from the ordinanance it self , a doing , not what christ did in another manner , but a doing of another matter then christ did : dipping with the face upward , and with the face downward is the same thing still , though in a different gesture , and ( to satisfie mr. simpson , who in his letter scarce thinks it a burial in baptism , if the face be not upward , and the water powred on , as the earth is on them , we burie with their faces upward ) whether this way or that way is not so much material if there be a total covering and overwhelming with either earth or water , it is a true burial still notwithstanding ; but dipping and sprinkling are two such diverse things , that the first is both baptism , and burial in baptism , but the second neither the one nor yet the other . thirdly , and yet the gesture is so fa● to be heeded in every ordinance , that if we know any one to be better then another , and more assuredly to be that which christ and his disciples used , i suppose we are bound , if not of necessity , not to decline it to follow any other mens fashions whatsoever , and i believe mr. cook did think it worth contending for to exchange the bishops kneeling at supper , for one more suitable to that christ used . fourthly , the gesture christ used was the same as ours i. e. sitting not leaning , nor yet lying , for though mr. cook asserts with such confidence that lying was used by christ , t is undoubtedly utterly untrue : what ere was the usual table gesture then is nothing to the point , or if it be it is most evident it was sitting , as it is now , for if it was in some places the fashion to lean or ly on beds at great banquets ( as some tell us ) yet i am sure the table gesture was not lying nor leaning neither any otherwise then as we do viz. on one elbow or both when we please : the scripture saies all along that he sate : mr. cook greeking it out in the margent as he does viz. mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mark . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will not help him in what he saies , for if any or all of these words viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signifie to lean or lie down , yet they all signifie to sit down also , for they are all rendred by discum●o the plain english of which is to sit down , and therefore also our translators do so english them , and i would demand of him again as he does of a. r. p. . whether he thinks that our translators , that have englisht them thus viz. he sate down , and as they sate dovvn , and he commanded the multitude to sit dovvn on the grasse , knevv not hovv to render the originall in its proper signification as vvell as he ? nor yet fiftly is the usuall manner of vvashing among us , which you confesse is most fit to be used in baptism , by povvring as vvell as dipping , for povvring is ( and yet but in some cases onely , as namely the vvashing the hands , and in that very case but sometimes and seldome onely , for mostly that is by dipping , and this too , but when the infusion is so large as totally to vvash the hands so vvashed ) a preparative to such a vvashing , but a compleat true washing it is not of it self , vvithout some subsequent act of rubbing , vvhich you use not about infants faces ; but swilling in water is the most usual way of washing , and a washing of itself some times , and some times used without any after rubbing at all , therefore this by mr. cooks own rule by right should be observed in baptism . sixthly , whereas he argues from the custom of the present times to an exemption from the primitive customes and practise , he might as well take upon him to say thus , if any man contend for that faith , way of worship , way of baptism , that was in the primitive and purest times . and for a reformation of all things according to the word , and example of the churches the word speak● of , it is true those churches indeed worshipped thus , were congregated thus , ordered thus , baptized thus viz. by dipping when they believed , but sprinkling infants is the way , and fashion now adaies , and as for what was done of the churches of old , we have nothing to do with it , and if any list to be contentions for it we have no such custom now , nor the churches of god! of which sure mr. cook cannot but be ashamed , who hath covenanted to reforme according to the word ●it● a covenant keeper , and a custom-monger cannot possibly be denominated both of one . rantist . nay stay a little , you 'l forget your own words i think anon , did you not say your self even now that we must put difference between examples in substantiall matters , and in matters meerly circumstantial ? we desire to keep as close as your selves can do to the primitive custom in things of weight , and that there may be no variation from it , without a violation of the will of christ in any point that is positively commanded , but i hope you will not make such a matter of moment of the manner of baptizing , as if chrst had injoined this way or that way of dispensation of it , viz. dipping so strictly as that sprinkling may not be used , nor yet sprinkling so as that dipping may not be used , nay rather its a meer ceremony , a prudentiall point , in which the church may use her discretion so as to dispense it either way , as conveniency and charity may dispose her , and no lesse is very well observed by mr. baxter p ▪ . christ saith he hath not appointed the measure of water nor manner of washing , no more then he hath appointed in the lords supper what quantity of bread and wine each must take , and as it would be but folly for any to think , that men must needs fill themselves with bread and wine , because it best signifies the fullnesse of christ , so it is no better to say , that we must needs be washed all over , because it best signifies our burial with christ , &c. christ told peter that the washing of his feet was enough to clense all , a little may signifie as well as much , as a clod of earth doth in possession of much lands , and a corn of pepper signifies our homage for much , and much to such a purpose are those words of mr. cook p. . some of which having been quoted , and spoken to before , though not so satisfactorily , but that they sway with me still , i am almost loath to repeat them , yet sith they be so among the other , i can hardly decline the mentioning them once more , by your leave , in answer to the objection , that a little water doth not so fitly and perfectly represent as dipping and plunging , sith in the one the whole body is washed , in the other the face or head only : he saies first , that the scripture no where requires the washing of the whole body in baptism . secondly , that with as good reason one may plead thus , that at the supper it is most convenient that every communicant should receive his belly full of bread and wine , and take as long as stomach , and head will hold , to signify the full refreshment of the soul with the body and blood of christ , but who , saies he , would endure such reasoning ? thirdly , these outward elements of water , bread and wine are for speciall use , and to signify special things , so that , if there be the truth of things , the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end , namely to represent the spiritual grace , and that it be neither so little as not to represent , nor so much as to take of the heart from the spirituall to the corporal thing : not the washing away the filth of the body in baptism , nor the glutting or satisfying of the natural appetite in the lords supper is to be looked after , but the washing and refreshing of the soul , which may well be represented by the sprinkling of a little water , eating and drinking of a little bread and wine , in circumcision a little skin was cut of . you see what these worthy men say you , need not be so hot as you are for the ceremony , if so be you keep the substance . baptist. i have received as much as all this comes to long since in a loving letter from a worthy friend of mine , whose words shall sway me , where i see them suit with the word of truth ( where not i must be excused ) to the full , as much as mr. cook and mr. blake and mr. baxters sway you be they right or wrong ; grant that dipping was alwaies used in those hot countreys , yet you know saith he , that necessity and charity dispense with ceremonies even of gods own institution , nor is the nature of the sacrament altered by this change , viz. from dipping to sprinkling , for seeing the whole vertue of the sacrament is in signification perablutionem , it no more matters quantum quisque abluatur then it doth in the supper quantum quisque comedat . but verily i am not able to discern either in this , or in that you say above , or in that you cite out of mr. cook and mr. baxter the least warrant in the world for the way of sprinkling , or for waving the old wonted way of dipping , with all the wisdome i have to weigh it by at this instant : as for what you take notice of that i said my self above , viz. that there is difference between matters circumstantial , and substantial , so that we need not be so strict in the observation of the one , i will not eat any thing i then uttered , but me thinks you might as well , had you not been partial , have taken notice of what followed , as of that , which had you done , you would have seen how little accrues to your purpose out of that gran● of mine , for i told you there and now tell you again , sith i see you so quick to catch at things by the halves , and slow to mind what in them makes against you , that howbeit it is not so material which way you baptize , so you baptize , yet if you rantize onely , you vary not onely in a circum●tance , but in the very substance of the ordinance , doing quite another matter then that you should do , and not the matter , i. e. baptism , in another manner onely ; for we will bear with that , as a thing neither here nor there , whether you baptize , i. e. wash a person by overwhelming or burying him in water in this gesture , or that , this form , or that , with his face up or down , yea be it by infusion of water on him , or immersion , or putting him under it , which of the two is most proper , and easy , we weigh it not , so you see to it that you bury , and overwhelm him : for all this while you retain both the true outward sign , which is baptism , or burial under water in baptism , in its nature , and essentiall form , in its true analogy and proportion to the spiritual things signified , which are primarily the death , burial and resurrection of christ , and secondly our being washed from sin by his blood ; but if once you fall from baptizing to rantizing , from submersion to aspersion , from dipping to dripping , from a totall covering to almost a totall keeping him from the water , you vary from the very thing that is required , not from one manner of baptizing to another , but from baptizing to another matter : there fore si●s when you talk of our being hot for a ceremony , if by the word ceremony you mean some petty , trivial , immaterial meer circumstance in baptism , which may indifferenter aut adesse aut abesse sine baptismi interitu , be or not be , and yet baptism be baptism still , as dipping backwards or forwards in ponds or rivers , you are much deceived in us , we regard not such ceremonies ; but a ceremony is a thing , which though it stand but for a time , yet stands by positive command for that time , wherin it is to stand , by no lesse then divine institution , nor know i any man , church or angell that can institute a ceremony to be observed and imposed ; and if by a ceremony you mean thus , not the meer manner of baptizing , but the matter , even baptism it self , which of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may altogether with the ordinances of the gospel or new covenant very properly be stiled ceremonies , as well as all the ordinances of divine service under the law , forasmuch as these last but for their time , viz. till the second appearing of christ , as those of the old covenant heb. . . lasted only till his first appearing , then i confesse we are somewhat stiff for the ceremony , nor can you blame us if you consider what we do , for in so doing we contend for no lesse then substance , as far as you can call any ordinance of christ so that hath a tendency , as a sign or otherwise , unto something yet more substantial ; the rite of circumcision , the passeover , and all the other sacrifices of the law , though shadowes in comparison of what they pointed at , yet were ordinances so substantial , as instituted of god , and so strictly to be observed , that who so should have taken upon him to alter , and shape them more to the model of his own mind , would have heard as ill from god for it as , without his leave , for omitting them altogether , & how ill that is he cannot be ignorant , that hears how sharply he speaks to them , that were too short but in tiths and offerings when in force , saying that a curse had therfore devoured their blessings mal. . and also that neglected circumcision , saying every soul that is not circumcis'd , meaning of whom circumcision is required ( but it was not of females then any more then baptism is of infants now ) shall be cut off from among his people , and i appeal to your own consciencies if any should have said , circumcision is a painful , a tedious , and dangerous piece of service , and dispensation to little infants ( and so it was indeed much more then dipping in cold water ) and thereupon in charity circumcision being nothing , and uncircumcision nothing , but a new creature , we will only pare there nailes , and make that serve instead of the other , would the lord have took it better at their hands ? would either god or good men have held them guiltlesse , yet whether they had circumcised thus or thus viz. with a knife , a sharp stone , or a pair of shears , i suppose that circumcision had been dispenst with , and even thus may we say of baptism as nothing as it is , it being an ordinance of gods institution , both they that omit it to whom it is commanded , and they that in charity take upon them to alter it , so as to make rantism serve instead of it , preaching or practising no baptism at all , or another thing that is no baptism under the name of it , were it the apostles themselves , or an angel from heaven , that should thus alter the gospell , shall equally be accepted , or rather equally accursed before god gal. . can you blame us therefore if we contend for the right baptism ? for it is not another manner of the thing then you use , but the very thing it self we plead against you , who cannot be said to alter the right way of baptizing , but the rite of baptism it self ; it is not a bare circumstance in the ceremony we differ in , but we differ in the substance i. e. in the ceremony , or rite it self , which you have changed , having no parts at all of the rite in your wrong practise , which your own party divide the rite of baptism into . ritus in baptismo est triplex saies tilenus the rite or ceremony in baptism is threefold , immersion , or plunging into the water , continuance for a time under the water , resurrection out of the water , in resemblance of christs death , burial and resurrection and ours in him . which of all these three are to be found in your aspersion ? unlesse you will all own featleys fetch for good resemblance viz. the dipping , burial , and resurrection of the ministers hand , when he sprinkles the infants face : sith therefore you have broken the law of christ the son , that law-giver and prophet , whose voice we are to hear in all that he saith , and changed the ordinances so far as to turn his baptism into rantism , you will as they that despised the law of moses the servant , be cut off from his people acts . heb. . heb. . sith you make void his plain word under pittiful pretences viz. the coldnesse , the tediousnesse , the danger of dipping in these climates , as if the reason for dipping were proper onely to hot countries , no marvel if such as see from under the vail of priestly pretence , that hath darkned the whole earth , are hot to have a recovery to the truth , specially since it is a truth not unknown to us , nor yet so trivial tru●h as these that inck is made of gum , and paper made of rags , nor yet such a scripture truth as is not material to be known , as that about pauls cloak and parchments , and that abiam was the son of sacar as mr. baxter bables p. . . ( a sign that paper is made of rags by his wasting it in such toies ) for these we are not so strictly held to reveal , but a truth of such worth , that it is to be preferred before that truthles peace he pleads for , the disturbance of which he calls hell p. ● . saying , we are little beholding to those men that would have turned the church into hell i. e. privation of peace , rather then silence their supposed truthes . to whom i say , if that be hell which priests so call , then truths true friends are hell-hounds all . but a word to mr. baxter out of mr. baxter p. . in vindication of our loathnesse to betray this truth by our silence viz. the law commandeth us to do our duty , to preserve truth from being lost , so that if truth be lost , while i do my duty , t is no sinne of mine , if it be not lost while i neglect my duty , it is yet my sin , god disposeth of events , not we , therfore what consequences may be occasioned , sith they are not caused by preaching the gospel , i may not , for fear of them , nor shall shun to declare the whole counsel of god. i know necessity and charity do dispense with circumstances in ceremonies , and with ceremonies or ordinances themselves of gods own institution sometimes , but first , it is with the omission onely , but not with the alteration of them into other , if a man converted on his death bed , or on the ladder , when ready to be executed , as the thief was upon the crosse , be willing to be baptized , if it may be , but cannot , in charity he may , and of necessity he must be dispenst with dying unbaptized in such a case , but no man may dispense another thing to him i. e. rantism in its room and stead , no more then he may give other things then bread and wine in the supper , to a stomach too weak to bear either of those , for that is to take upon him to make another institution , and gods leave man never had so to do . secondly it must be by leave from the lord implicit , or expresse , upon which onely we can ground the lawfulnesse of omission , and necessity , and charity , but not charity mistaken , are leave enough no doubt to let a lone , though in no wise to alter what ever he ordaines , as when it neither can be at all , nor can be done conveniently , nor possibly without killing men indeed ; whereupon we find no fault found with israel in the wildernesse for forbearing to circumcise years together , it is like least it should hinder them in their warfare , but sure i am they should have heard of it from the lord if to forgo the sorenesse of that circumcision they had circumcised i. e. cut off onely the hair of their heads . let the ranter therefore shew us gods word for his omission ; and the rantizer for his mutation of baptism , and we will fall in with either , as we see it evidenced therein . rantist . if you do but mind the testimonies i cited out of mr. cook and mr. baxter , and what you hinted your self as written to you in private , you cannot chuse but see word enough for our use of sprinkling , though dipping were used never so in the primitive times , for they tell you ( but me thinks you do not much mind it ) that the scripture requires not totall washing , that christ appoints not the measure of water nor manner of washing , more then the measure of bread and wine in the supper , he hath left it ad libitum , and as they say very well , the whole vertue of the sacrament lying in signification per ablutionem , it matters no more quantum quisque abluatur , then quantum quisque comedat , and as it is folly to think that men must eat in the supper as long as head and stomach will hold , because it signifyes the souls refreshment , so that in ba●tism we must be washed all over , because it best signifies our burial with christ : a little signifies as well as much , a clod of earth , a pepper corn , a little skin cut off in circumcision , so by a little bread and wine eat and drank , and by a little water sprinkled may the refreshment of the soul be represented . baptist. that which best signifyes is best to be done , and forasmuch as t●at best signifies , that both signifies and resembles the quantity of the element , that manner of action which best resembles is best and fittest to be used undoubtedly in baptism , in which christ hath undoubtedly appointed what is best , whereupon if mr. baxter grant ( or if he do not he cannot deny ) that overwhelming best resembles , and consequently best signifyes our burial with christ , he never will give good reason whilest he breathes upon this earth , why washing all over ( as he calls it ) should not be used ; as for that reason that is given against it here by himself at second hand , and by mr. cook at first , of whom he borrowes well nigh every bit of what he saies against a totall dipping , save only his fearful , fairfowl flourishes upon it , viz. first that the measure of water , and manner of washing the whole body is not appointed , secondly , that then in the supper there must be a eating to the full , thirdly , that a little may serve as well as much , there 's little weight as far as i see in any part of it . the first hath so little reason , that it hath no truth in it for christ hath appointed vertually in some measure the measure of water in that his very appointment of the manner of washing in the way of a totall overwhelming , as appears before in the ●ignification of the word baptize , which signifies a dipping or overwhelming of that subject , that is particularly denominated to be washed by it ; whether it be the whole man , or but a part of him ; if the tip of the finger only be said truly to be baptized , then that tip must be totally washed ; if the hands be denominated , without a figure to be baptized , then the hands at least are totally washed ; if the man be the subject properly predicated to be baptized , then that man also must be totally washed ; but in scripture the man is required , and appointed to be baptized ; to the performance of which such a measure of water is consequently appointed , as may be at least sufficient for that end , and required it is that it be neither so little that it cannot totally wash him , nor yet so much as must necessarily drowne him , as an ocean would , but a proportion suitable to that purpose . to the second i might answer , that there is not altogether the same reason , for such a totall filling , and swilling in the supper , as there is for a totall swilling in baptism ; sith the main and radical matter , that is to be resembled in baptism is christs death , burial and resurrection , but the radical thing , that is resembled in that action of our eating and drinking in the supper , is our faith , whereby we feed upon christ , and accept him each to our selves as our redeemer , without which that he is a redeemer will do us no good , for faith ▪ is the appropriating of of christ the bread of life , each to our selves , who is set before us in common in the whole loaf , and as it will do a man no good to have bread and wine before him , which are elements most refreshing , unless he take them , and eat and drink , so neither us to see a saviour set before us , unlesse we take of his salvation to our selves . this is that which is most immediately signifyed , and particularly represented in the supper , which businesse of bare taking christ jesus to our selves by faith , is represented truly in taking never so little , but a burial and resurrection not in never so little water ; a few crumbs of bread and sips of wine taken do rep●esent a taking of christ in the supper , but not so a few drops of water tiffled upon the face christs death , buriall and resurrection : and fith you say the refreshment of the soul by the fullnesse is represented in our eating and drinking in the supper , and yet that eating and drinking a little bread and wine not to fulness is enough in the supper to represent that , and so why not a little water , not deep enough to dip and bury in , applyed to us in baptism , the burial and resurrection of christ ? i might answer that the refreshment of the soul by christ is represented rather in the elements , then in the action of either , eating or drinking in the supper , by the bread which is a strengthner of mans heart , and wine which is for them of a sorrowful heart , and therefore there might not be altogether the need of representing our refreshing by eating and drinking much , at least so much as mr. cook and mr. ba. talkes of , viz. to the filling and glutting of our selves to the top as long as head and stomack will hold , that action would yield but a small resemblance of a refreshment , and were enough to make a sound man sick , but there is a reason in all things , and a difference as we say between staring , and stark mad : thus i say i might answer , and cut off your arguing for analogy , and a small portion of the element in baptism , as well as in the supper , between which there is not fully the same reason . but verily i am of your mind that a refreshment of the soul by the fulnesse of christ is very fit to be resembled and represented by the quantity of the elements , as well as by the elements in the supper also ; and yet am i not of your mind that so little , as you ordinarily use , is so very fit as you dream it is to represent it , but of the mind rather that as you are in your baptism viz. not out of your element , as you should be if you were baptized in truth by submersion , or putting clear under water , but out in your element rather i. e. in the measure of your water , which is not adaequate to the true manner of washing , so you are also in the supper too poor in your provision of elements , for that which is the true and full purport of that sacred service ; you have got together many littles to prove that so little element as you use both in baptism and supper may do as well , if not better , then more , all which are very little to the purpose , a little may signifie as well as much saies mr. baxter , a clod of earth , a pepper corn : but what then ? we are to signifie with resemblance , or else a sacrament is no sacrament , saith austin , but saies mr. cook a little may resemble the washing , and the refreshing of the soul may well be resembled by a sprinkling of a little water , eating and drinking a little bread and wine , in circumcision a little skinne was cut off ; what then ? first it was as much as god required to be cut off . secondly it was so much as made it circumcision . thirdly , as much as truly and clearly resembled the circumcision of the heart , which is signified , but such is not ( for all mr. cooks conceit ) that little water you sprinkle , nor yet that little becad and wine you distribute , it is neither so much as represents clearly the things signified , which are not onely the clearing of the soul by christs dainties in the supper , which should be resembled by eating and drinking it , but some more chearing and refreshing of the body , then that which is commonly in your communions ; but alas the burial and resurrection of christ , in baptism should be resembled by submersion , and emersion ; and therefore to answer mr. cook in the words of mr. cook , the outward elements of water bread and wine are for spirritual use , and to signifie spiritual things , so that if there be the truth of things [ but what i wonder if there be not ( as i am sure in rantism there is not ) the truth of baptism ] the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end , namely to represent the spiritual grace [ so far then it seemes it must be , and that is enough to confute mr. cooks rantism , for it represents not the spiritual grace ] and that it be neither so little as not clearly to represent it ) [ yet so little is the quantity that you use , not of water onely in the one , but of bread and wine also in the other ordinarily ] nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing ] content with all in my heart that it be not too much on this hand , provided that it be not too litle one the other , so but that it may reach to resemble the things signified , for the whole vertue of baptism lying in signification per ablutionem i. e. per submersionem , per sepelitionem in aquâ , and the vertue of the supper much what in signification per recreationem , per representationem plenitudinis : non multum interest , quantum quisque abluatur , modo obruatur , submergatur , sepeliatur , nec quantum quisque comedat , modo comedendo repleatur . ] to conclude sirs you are too short in that point of the outward element in the supper as well as bapti●m , in the church of corinth there was so much bread and wine that if some hungred , others were drunken , as neither of these should have been , so the latter could not have been , but that the use then was to have more abundance of the elements , then you have in your parish passeovers , wherein the people are past over with so poor a pittance , that all may in likelihood be hungry enough , but none at all very easily drunken , such niggardly snips and sups ; not at rome onely , where the priests expounding christ as speaking to themselves , when of the wine , saying drink ye all this , and not to the people , saying drink ye all of this , do impropriate the liquor wholly to themselves , but in england also do the priests supp , i should say dine ( for it is done at noon dayes with them ) their poor patient dependant people at the lords table . there 's one thing among mr. baxters bedrow which i had almost quite past over without any answer , which if i had you would have said it is like i willingly forgat it ; christ told peter saith he that the washing of his feet was enough to clense all ; mr. blake gives us a touch here too through the persons of a popish party p. . of peters mind saith he not to be washed in one part onely , which say some from the same place also viz. iohn . . . is as sufficient as the washof the whole . as if that scripture even therefore because it speaks of washing , doth speak of this ordinance of baptism : either it doth sirs in your opinion or it doth not , if not , to what purpose do you quibble upon it here ? if you say it doth , i much marvel why you think so , but more if in earnest you argue from it that a man need be baptized but in part onely , sith you all confesse practically that the face and head , but not the feet are the subject of baptism ▪ yea verily you had as good have said pilate took water and washed his hands before the multitude , therefore the ordinance of baptism is no total dipping , for the story of christs washing peters feet speaks no more of the ordinance of baptism , then the other does ; yea it is most evident that the washing of the disciples feet was clear to another end and use viz. not to baptize them , much lesse to shew how they should baptize others , but meerly to teach them humility one toward another , and to condescend to the lowest offices that could be for loves sake to each other ; this christ expressed himself to be the direct meaning of what he did , v. . . . . &c. after he had washed their feet he saies to them : know you what i have done to you ? you call me lord and master , you say well , so i am ; if i your lord and master have washed your feet , you also ought to wash one anothers feet , for i have given you an example that ye should do as i have done unto you , this was christs end therefore to learn them humility , which was done as well in washing their feet onely , as all the body , yea the feet only indeed , because the feet are the viler parts of the body , for us to stoop to wash , whereby to expresse our humility each to other , in which respect and no other it is that when peter yet ignorant ●o what christ was about to do , cryed out lord my hands also and my head , christ replies , that he that is washed , i. e. not in baptism , but in this washing he was then about need not more i. e. ad rem substratam then to wash his feet , but is clean every whit , i. e. as much as he need be to this intent , for which i now am washing you : besides that the washing of the feet only is not a sufficient washing to denominate a man baptized according to christs ordinance , is evident by the eunuch , that went into the water , and so was washed in his feet , and yet not baptized for all that according to christs will , till philip had baptiz'd or dipt him there : it is a sign you are put hard to your shifts , when you use such impertinencies to help you as these . rantist . impertinency ? i think all is impertenency with you still , though never so solid , that is brought in disproof of your idol dipping : but what say you i trow to those two last unanswerable arguments of mr. cook against totall dipping viz. that it is against both the sixth and seventh argument , both which arguments mr. baxter also takes after him , and ●angs you about with them a little better then mr. cook did , and laces your sides so handsomely therewith , that i believe you selves will be all sick of mr. baxter , and your cause scarce be whole of those two gashes he hath thereby given it , salve it over as long as you will , for he proves it plain that your plunging practise is no better then flat murther , and adultery . baptist. i say these are knocking arguments indeed , if they be but as solid as they shew for , but for all that let us see a little for our money before we part with it , and hear what their arguments are in words at length , and not in figures , if it chance to prove as you say they say , and as they say indeed in this particular , viz. that it is murther and adultery to dip as we do , i assure you in the word of a minister and a christian , that hopes to be saved in the way of innocency , as well as your selves , that dipping , as it is no idol of mine , for i adore it no otherwise then i ought to do every ordinance of our onely king , priest and prophet christ jesus , for his sake that ordained it , so it shall never be adored so much as to be owned more by me , but be abhorred rather with deeper detestation , then i dispense it with affection to this houre ; but i believe that their proof will fall wondrous short of so high a charge , as they venture to charge us with , be pleased therefore since you mention it in gross , to repeat their arguments more at large , which i dare say your memory is more tenacious of then of any other , and i shall examine them as exactly as you you shall desire me . rantist . first then let it be well considered what they say to the first thing . this dousing over head and ears and under water saith mr. cook , that you plead for , as essential to baptism , seems directly against the sixth commandment and exposeth the person baptized to the danger of death . for first suppose the party be fit for baptism ( as you account ) in the sharp winter as now believing , professing &c. he must immediately be taken to the river as your tenet seemes to hold , and there plunged in over head and ears , though he come forth covered with y●e . but if he scape perishing with cold , how can he scape being choaked and stiffled with the water , if he must be plunged over head to signify his death to sin ? secondly be kept under water to signifie his burial ? and thirdly be taken up again as a. r. and you seem to reason ? but whatever be the danger of freezing or suffocation it seems , this you hold the only baptism and therefore must not be swerved from p. . thus he , but more largely and plainly mr. baxter p. . that which is a plain breach of the sixth commandement , thou shalt not kill , is no ordinance of god , but a most haynous sin , but the ordinary practise of baptizing by dipping over head in cold water as necessary , is a plain breach of the sixt commandment therefore . and mr. craddock in his book of gospel liberty shewes the magistrate ought to restrain it , to save the lives of his subjects &c. that it is flat murder and no better , being ordinarily and generally practised , is undenyable to any understanding man , for that which directly tendeth to overthrow mens lives , being willfully done is plain murder , but the ordinary or general dipping of people over head in cold water doth tend directly to the overthrow of their health , and lives , and therefore it is murder : here several answers are made saith mr baxter some vain , some vile . first mr. t. saith that many are appointed the use of bathing as a remedy against diseases . to which i reply saith he , . though he be no physitian , yet his own reason should tell him t is no universal remedy . . few diseases have cold baths appointed them , i have cause , saith he , to know a little more then every one in this , and i dare say that in cities like london , and amongst gentlewomen , that have been tenderly brought up , and antient people , and weak people , and shop keepers , especially women that take but little of the cold air , the dipping them in the cold weather in cold water in the course of nature would kill hundreds and thousands of them either suddenly or by casting them into some chronicle disease ; & i know not what trick a covetous land lord can find out to get his tenants ●● dy apace , that he may have new fines and heriots , likelier then to encourage such preachers , that he may get them all to turn anabaptists ; i wish that this devise saith be not it that countenanceth these men ; and covetous phisitians me thinks , saith he , should not be much against them ; catarrhes and obstructions , which are the two great fountains of most mortall diseases in mans body , could scarce have a more notable means to produce them where they are not , or to increase them where they are , apoplexies , lethargies , palsies and all comatous diseases would be promoted by it , so would cephalalgies , hemicranies , ph●hise● , debility of the stomach , crudities , and almost all feavers , dissenteries , diarraeas , colicks , illiack passions , convulsions , spasmes , tremors , &c. all hepatick , splenetick , pulmoniack persons and hipocrandriacks would soon have enough of it , in a word , saith he , it is good for nothing but to dispatch men out of the world , that are burthensome , and to ranken church yards . but mr. t. will salve all this , for he saith that there is no necessity that it be in cold water . to which i reply , saith he , . but then he forsaketh the generality of his partners in this opinion , so much as we can learn , who usually baptize in rivers and ponds . . and his warm bath would be very dangerous also . . where should this bath be prepared ? if in private , it will scarce be a solemn engaging act , if in the meeting place of the church , then . it will take no small room , and require no small stir to have a bathiag place , and water to dipp people over head . . and if they do not run home quickly before they are well ingaged , the hot bath will be turned to a cold one to them , and make them repent this badge of repentance , except they will have all things ready and be ●rought to bed also in the church before the people . . and it will be long ere mr. t. can clear out of his reading antiquity what church had such a bathing place in it ; but me thinks they that call for scripture for infant baptism , should also bring scripture for their baptizing in warm water , but some say they may stay till the heat of summer , when the water will be warm . to which i reply , saith he , where is your scripture for that ? i have proved the constant rule , and example of scripture is clean contrary , and requires that men be baptized , when they are first made disciples , and not stay till summer . but some desperately conclude that if it be gods way , he will save our lives , how probable soever the danger may seem . i answer , saith he , that this is to begg the question , nay i have shewed , and am shewing that it is not gods way ; god hath appointed no ordinances contrary to his great morall commands . . god must not be tempted , this was the devils trick to have drawn christ under pretence of scripture , and trusting god to have cast himself into danger of death . . so you might have said to the disciples , that if it were gods command to keep the sabbath then they might not rub the ears of corn , for god could sustain them without . . if it were a duty , yet when it is inconsistent with a greater duty it is at that time a sin , for it is alwaies a sin to prefer a lesser duty before a greater , for the duty of self preservation is a morall , naturall duty , and baptizing is but positive &c. god hath not appointed ordinances in his church that will destroy men except they be preserved by miracles , for then it were a tying himself to a constant working of miracles &c. so that i conclude saith mr. baxter , if murder be a sin then dipping over head in cold water in england is a sin , and if those that would make it mens religion to murder themselves , and urge it on their consciences as their duty , are not to be suffered in a common-wealth any more then high way murderers , then judge how these anabaptists , that teach the necessity of such dipping are to be suffered . thus you see what opinion these men are of concerning your totall dipping , and upon what ground ; yea though mr. tombs , and others make so light of it , and wash it over as well as they can , yet mr. baxter wipes of all their varnish , and represents it on its proper colour to the world , in its own ugly hue , and maintains it to be no lesse then meer murder , and you may prate a while , and practise to if you please , having your quiet advantages so to do in this distracted juncture of time , but i hope an order will we taken with you in time according to your deserts , is the right kirk government were once settled , though hitherto you have the hap to scape scot-free . baptist. if one were disposed to give no other answers , then mr. tombes viz. that bathing is a remedy against diseases , and that it is not necessary to be in cold water , as vain as these are with mr. baxter , they may serve to salve the cause sufficiently from any sore that accrues to it from that much more vain , and pedling prit●le-prattle in which mr. baxter reanswers him , e. g. his learned conjectures about coveteous land-lords , physitians , and his wretched wishes that they , in hopes to have men dy apace , do not divise countenance for the way of dipping , and the divine verdit he vents on it , as good for nothing but to dispatch men out of the world , that are burthensome , and to ranken church-yards ; what rotten riff-raff is all this ? if one should answer him according to his folly , saying , and coveteous clergy men should , me thinks , be not much against it , if it ranken church-yards that the parsons horse may have the bigger pasture , i wish they have not a trick to favor it , &c. were it not as wise a wish as the other ? but i spare him , lest i be like him , though if he be not answered according to his folly , i fear the man may be so wise in his own conceit as to suppose his folly to be wisdome . furtherwhat great store of small stir doth the man make about a warm bath , wondering much where it should be prepared in private or in the church , and what stir it would require ? [ as if it were more difficult to build a bath a little wider , and a great deal lower then a font , then t is to build a steeple house ] and what room it would take ? [ as if the church had rather retain her rome then be rob'd of her room , in removing that romish relique of infants sprinkling ] and how dangerous this hot bath may prove too , and become such a cooling card as may soon make men repent of the baptism of repentance , unlesse they run home quickly , or be brought to bed before the people [ as if it were more impossible to bath in baptism without danger , difficulty , and immodesty , then it is to bath ( as thousands do ) in order to meer health and pleasure . ] what frivolous quibling is all this ? what is the man made of brown paper , and fit for nothing , but to sit by the fire side in a pair of slippers , that his body may be baptized , neither in cold water nor warm , but it must needs be his death without more ado ? i speak this not as intending to answer as mr. tombes doth , but to note mr. baxters fidlings , for whether bathing in cold water be a remedy against diseases or no , i am not so far a physitian as to know ; mr. tombes saies it is against some , and mr. baxter very wisely confutes him by confessing the same , saying onely , first it is no universal remedy . secondly few diseases have cold bathes appointed them , it should seem therefore some have , and whether there be necessity to baptize in cold water or no i say not , mr. tombes saies no , and indeed i see not how degrees of cold , and heat in the element can well vary the nature of the ordinance ; but this i say at least , there is no necessity that i know to baptize in warm ; for my part i am one , who , as grievous as christs commandement is to mr. baxter , do winter , and sommer usually baptize in rivers and ponds , nor shall i go about to scape his scrape , or mr. cooks either , ( who as if a man were undone presently if but dipt in cold water and weather , [ cryes out of freezing , starving , choaking , stifling , death , murder &c. ) by balking one bit of the truth in this point , or disowning the way of dipping in cold water and weather , for which dispensation sith t is , as i have proved , and mr. ba. cannot disprove ▪ the ordinance of christ for all nations at all times , as people happen to be converted in them , i know no season unseasonable , no time at all untimely , save when it is dispensed to one in time of infancy , nor would it be then untimely , as tedious as it is , any more then circumcision , that was a farre more bloody businesse , were it strictly injoined to be dispensed to infants as that was , and as this is to believers at riper years : as for all the paines mr. baxter bestows against it , improving mr. cooks argument with all his might , it is all meer babble and bawbling , he tells us it is a desperate conclusion , and a vile answer to say that if it be gods way hee 'l save our lives , how probable soever the danger may seem , and that it is to begge the question . i answer , for my part i beg no question of him , for i have proved the question already , and can prove to his face that dipping is gods way , and will not be beholding to him to grant it , and being so if this be to be vile and desperate , to conclude that god will save our lives in his own way . i le be more vile and desperate yet , and conclude with the three worthies , that for gods way sake ventured one a baptism more bitter then this viz. baptismum flaminis not fluminis with fire , not water , more hot then this is cold , our god is able to save our lives , but if not , be it known unto mr. baxter and all men that we are willing , when we must , to loose them in , and for his way . he tells us god hath appointed no ordinance contradictory to his great and moral commands , and that we might as well have said to the disciples if it were gods command to keep the sabboth ( he should have said sabbath , had he either known the hebrew , or remembred himself , for saboth is another thing , for sabbath is rest , but saboth , or sabaoth is hosts as we may see in these places mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) they need not have rub'd the ears of corn , for god could have sustained them without , if it were a duty , yet when it is inconsistent with a greater duty , it is at that time a sin , for it is alwayes a sin to prefer a lesse duty before a greater , but the duty of self preservation is a natural , moral duty , and baptizing but positive . as if circumcision were not as contrary to the duty of self-preservation as dipping in water , as if the priests profaning the sabbath by servile work , were not as contradictory to the moral command ( as your very selves call it ) of sabbath observation , as either of those to self-preservation , and yet when all is done all these were to be done , and none of these contradictory to the other neither , for in very deed god never commanded sabbath-observations so strictly , as that the ordinance of the dayly sacrifice should be neglected , yea and the life not onely hazzarded , but utterly lost , and laid down for christs name sake and the gospels ; he tells us that the duty of self-preservation is a moral natural duty , and baptizing but positive , i tell him again he saies as much in that , as i desire he should say , to the confirming of our tenet , for if baptizing be a positive duty , so far as t is positive it must take place against the other , a positive command being to be obeyed rather then self to be favoured in any wise , in any case whatsoever : god gave abraham a positive command to slay his son , therefore that being positive , and the favouring and sparing of himself and his son , though moral and natural , yet but suppositive , i. e. to be lookt at so far onely as god lent him leave to injoy his son , it must be done , and the other let alone , god must be trusted , and his will obeyed , and the saving of his son must give way to the slaying of him : the positive duty of killing him being the greater , and to be preferred before the other , and the sparing him being inconsistent with this , though elsewise a duty , yet would have been at that time a sin . in that therefore he yields baptism to be a positive command , as if self-preservation were not so , he yields us more then we are willing to take of him , for howbeit for the most part it is positive , and therefore , so far as such , to be observed , without respect to the ill consequences of it to the lifeward , yet verily i question my self , though i find no expresse exemption from baptism in any case , whether there be not ( yea it is certain there are ) some cases , wherein the forbearance of the dispensation may , yea and must be dispenst with , but those are not the coldnesse of the water and weather , but the utter impossibility of the persons submitting to it , of whom else it is required , or his being bard from it , either as the thief on the crosse was , or by imprisonment , or by some such absolute sicknesse or weaknesse as confines persons necessarily to their beds , and puts them out of capacity and ability to betake themselves , where it may be done as it ought , i am willing to modify mr. baxters rigid epithete of a positive command , whereby he denominates baptism , so far as to spare persons in these cases and respects , and to stile baptism a duty but suppositive i. e. a thing that necessarily must be done , if either possibly , or conveniently it may be done ; but if it cannot , may be let alone : but this proves not that self-preservation must be alwaies prefer'd before baptism , for then it need never be obeyed at all , there being no time , wherein it can be done with so little seeming tediousnesse , and disease to a mans self , but that self will willingly excuse it self from obeying it , by pleading the duty of self-preservation . this duty of self-preservation hath couzened as honest a man as mr. baxter ere now , and it couzens the whole priesthood to this hour , who generally suppose that god is no further to be served , then self may be preserved , hence no pay no preach , no countenance from the magistracy , no continuance in their ministry , but for selfs sake they turn still with the times , but no faster ; as if they durst trust god no further then they see him , and this was the plea , whereby peter would fain have put christ beside a duty that he foresaw would be dangerous , for christ and himself too : but christ gave him no great thanks for his labor , far be it from thee lord quoth he , to go to ierusalem and suffer ; by no means let this be : he thought he did well to rebuke christ for owning the gospel in that case , wherein he must expose himself to suffer , but get thee behind me satan saith christ , thou art an offence , thou savourest not the things of god , but those that be of men , thou thinkest as if he should say that self must be favoured , before positive duty be performed , that the life must be saved , and the gospel obeyed no further then is consistent with self-preservation , but i tell you saith he , that if any man will be my disciple he must deny himself , and take up his crosse and follow me . for he that will save his life i. e. discharge no duty that may prove dangerous to his life , shall lose it , but he that will lose his life for my name sake , and the gospel , shall save it , mat. . . to . if paul had stood so much upon the point of self-preservation , and counted his life so dear unto himself , as mr. baxter seems to do his , he would have harkned to such as besought him to favour himself , and not have gon up to ierusalem , where he knew not what should befall him , save that he knew that bonds and afflictions did there abide him , if he would there testifie to the gospel act. . . . , . . nor would he have exposed himself to so many hazzards and perils by sea and land , perils by water , perils by hunger and thirst , and cold and nakednesse , none of all which things moved him , that he might witnesse to the gospel : he tattles to us that god must not be tempted , and that it was the divels trick to draw christ under pretence of scripture and trusting of god to have cast himself into danger of death ; who doubts of all this , but is it tempting to perform a positive command of god , and expose our selves to danger and difficulty in the discharge of our positive duty to him , because it is so to indanger our liues by doing that , which we have no call to , nor warrand for , and which is absolutely sin , and hath not the least dram of duty in it at all ? it is true it would have been but pretence of scripture , and trusting of god in christs casting himself from the pinacle of the temple , but dare he saie there is ▪ but pretence of scripture and trusting of god in submitting to his own ordinance of baptism ? is there no more word to warrant us to be baptized , and to trust in god , and to expect his protection in the execution of that so absolute a command , then there is to warrand the execution of our selves , which god universally forbids , and that on no more ground then the bare bidding of the devil ? who would think a mininister should be so moped as to make these two a like warrantable ? it was the divels trick therefore to draw christ under pretence of scripture and trusting of god to self-execution against duty ; and whether it be mr. baxters trick onely , or the divels in him to draw men under pretence of scripture and tempting of god to self-preservation so far as not to trust god in the discharge of duty , is not amisse for mr. baxter to examine for that it savours not of spirit but of flesh it is so sure that it needs no examination . if therefore it were indeed so dangerous to be dipt , as is imagined by mr. cook and mr. baxter , yet i see no word of christ willing a declension of the dispensation . but what if this be but a meer chimaera of these mens coining , how much lesse are we then excused in our non-submission ? and yet such and no other will it be found to be at last by then we have sounded this most murderous mater to the bottom . for as to mr. baxters dismall divination of the hideous consequences that are ( if you will believe him ) as it were entaild to this course of constant dipping , and his composed catalogue of chronicall diseases viz. catarrhes , obstructions , apoplexies , lethargies , palsies , all comatous diseases , cephalalgies , hemicranies , phthises , debilitie of the stomach , crudities , feavers , disentaries , diarrhaeas , colicks , iliack passions , convulsions , spasmes , tremores , and all hepatick , splenetick , pulmoniack distempers , and hippocondriacks also . all which to what end he hath nomen-clattered together here i know not , unlesse to make himself , whilest he denies mr. tombs to be a physitian , seem to be a smatterer in the art of physick ; as to that pittifull piece of proof i say , together with that formidable lecture mr. cook reads us concerning freezing and suffocation , it is ridiculous and frivilous fibbling , to fray faint hearted folks with , from finding out that straight gate , and narrow way that leads to life : but a few will find it for all this , especially when they shall find their so much believed mr. baxter to be such a flat false accuser as he is of this way of truth . hear therefore o ye doters on mr. baxters deep divinity ; he talks ( if you will believe him ) as if it were little lesse then impossible that persons should be dipped in cold weather in cold water , and not be killed suddenly by hundreds and by thousands , or at least not be cast into some chronical disease , which within a while must be an occasion of their death ; whereas there are hundreds if not thousands alive at this hour even in this cold countrey , as they call it , many if not most of which have past through that sharp service in the sharpest seasons , conversion falling out as ordinarily in winter as in summer , whose present health both proves the falsnesse , and reproves the madnesse of your prophet . yea i have cause to know a little better then every one , and a little more then mr. baxter in this , expertus loquor , i speak by experience , against which no argument of his availes , i have seen since my five or six years converse among the commonly called anabaptists many a one baptized totally in cold watet and weather too by others , besides toward two hundred by my silly self , many of which have come forth covered , though not with yce , as mr. cook phrases it out , yet with that water which yce truly covered but just before , yet never saw i any one so baptized in all that time , who was not , if not better in meer bodily respects , yet at least as well after it as before ; he tells you ( if you will believe him ) that totall dipping is for nothing but to dispatch men out of the world that are burdensome , but then i wonder how the creature called anabaptist , that is so burthensome to mr. baxter , doth not dy out of the way by hundreds and thousands , and so save him and others that labour of dispute against their growth , but rather grow from hundreds into thousands so fast that they are not likely to be dispatcht out of the world , till they are such a burthensom stone as will press them to death , i. e. the whole priesthood , that is troubled with them . he tells you ( if you will believe him ) that dipping will destroy men except they be preserved by miracles , why else doth he say ( speaking specially as to this ordinance of dipping ) god hath not appointed ordinances in his church that will destroy men except they be preserved by miracles ; now if it be not so as hee saies viz. that it is a miracle to be dipped and not destroyed , then what a strange man is he to say so ? but if it be so indeed , viz. a miracle to be dipped and not destroyed , then ●o fools and slow of heart to believe the truth , though the lord confirm it to you with miracles , which are wrought day by day amongst the disciples , who are dipped winter and summer as occasion is , yet are not destroyed ! yea whereas mr baxter dares say that in cities like london , and amongst gentlewomen that have been tenderly brought up , and antient people , and weak people , and shopkeepers , especially women that take but little of the cold aire , dipping in cold weather would in the course of nature kill hundreds and thousands suddenly , or cast them into some chronical disease , i dare say that in the city of london there is hundreds , if not thousands dipped in cold water , and as it happens , in cold weather too , many of which are gentlewomen tenderly brought up , and antient and weak people , and shop keepers , and women that take but little of the cold aire , and yet by the course of grace they are preserved from perishing by either cold or suffocation : yea and out of the city of london too , for these hands have baptized of all these sorts in the countrey , viz. gentlewoman most tenderly brought up , very antient people , very weak people , shopkeepers , and specially two women both alive at this day , which i 'l become a fool in telling you of them sith mr. baxter compells me , did take so little of the cold aire that one of them , if my memory fail me not , and if i were truly informed , was but once out of her house in year before , by reason of a dropsy ; and that was with much adoe , and but a little before her dipping , and to hear this doctrine , notwithstanding which weaknesse , and such swellings that she was wellnigh twice as bigg as now she is , and scarce able to betake her self to the water , she was dipped , and was rather better in body , then worse after it , and after sending for some elders of the church to pray over her , and anoint her with oile in the name of the lord according to his own institution in that behalf iam. . was within a while so asswaged in her swellings , that she is now as sl●nder as in former times , before ever he distemper took hold on her . the other had scarce been out of her chamber in two years together , and durst not dip her finger in cold water , and was ready to have her breath stopt with the least annoyance that could be yet was dipped , and was better after it ( through gods mercy ) for a pretty while so as to go abroad : though she now is weak , and much what as she used to be before . if then you will not believe the words of god , believe the works , believe the miracles , for it is by miracles that they are preserved who are dipt in cold water and not destroyed saies mr. baxter , which if it be then god hath wrought very many miracles among the men you nickname anabaptists of late , for they are constantly preserved from perishing by either cold , or suffocation : yea i have known many a one better in body , but i nere knew any one , of whom i could safely say they were the worse in body or soul for being dipt , save such as turned from the truth after turning to it , for the latter end with such indeed is worse then their begining . yet how rashly do these men shoot their bolts to the murdering of the truth , whilst they make the ordinary practise of it no lesse then flat murder it self , and that undeniably to any understanding man , unless there be a preservation by a miracle ; for else it destroyes men quoth mr. baxter , it directly tendeth to overthrow mens lives in the course of nature , it will kill hundreds and thousands of them ; but if a man scape perishing with cold , yet how can he ( i. e. how is it possible for him ) to escape being choaked quoth mr. cook and stifled with the water , if he must be plunged over head to signify his death to sin ? . secondly kept under water to signify his burial ? how can a man escape choaking sirs , if he be put and kept under the water ? why i tell you that either he can , or else he cannot , if he can , why then he can , and so mr. cook is confuted ; if he cannot in the course of nature , without miracle , then it being certain that thousands do scape choaking , it should seem god by miracle secures them , and yet for all this nor mr. baxter , nor mr. cook are convinced ; whether it be the more shame for them or no not to be so , i leave it to themselves , and all understanding men to consider . or perhaps mr. cook means how can a man escape choaking if he be kept three daies under water , for so quoth he the disciple must , as christ abode three daies under water , if christs burial be represented , but not onely his own party , for mora sub aqua quantu lacunque saith tilenus , quantumvis momentanea saith bucan , abode under the water for never so little a while doth most lively resemble christs burial , but his own practise confutes him clearly in this , for as the ministers hand with which dr. featley resembles christs burial is not dipt three daies together under water , so the insusion of water upon the face of the infant , which why may it not represent the burial as well as dipping quoth mr. c. p. . doth not last for three daies together neither . thus you see how well mr. baxter and mr. cook have quitted themselves in their proof of our practise to be murder , and against the sixth commandement , and what high and mighty reason mr. baxter hath to accuse us to the magistrate as murderers , and to suggest it his duty to him out of mr. craddock , to restrain us to save the lives of his subjects , and not to suffer but to destroy us . rantist . but if you give way to mr. baxter to answer for himself , he clears himself of moving the magistrates to destroy you ; i never moved magistrate or people , saith he p. . either to drive them out of the land , or to destroy them . baptist. what an egregious untruth is there ? doth he not say here if those that make it religion to murder themselves , and urge it on their consciences as their duty are not to be suffered in a common-wealth any more then high-way murderers , then judg how these anabaptists that teach the necessity of such dipping are to be suffered . is not this to tell men that we are no more to be suffered in a common-wealth then high way murderers , which high way murderers mr. baxters conscience i dare say desires that they may not be suffered , but may suffer no lesse then hanging : and yet dares he say he stirs not up the magistrate against us ? i know not what is to excite the magistrate against persons if this be not , to charge them to be as guilty as high way murderers , which if he judges us to be indeed , he is bou●d both in law and conscience to prosecute us to the very death , but if he in his conscience judges us not to be such ( as oh how after to the contradiction of himself in this doth he judge more charitable of us then so e. g. p. . where he saith who dare think their error to be such ? and yet such is high way murder when lived and died in , as concludeth them from grace ) then i marvel how he dare charge us so high as to rank us with , and represent us as bad , and as unworthy to be suffered in a commonwealth , as high way murderers themselves , especially since it remains yet on his part unproved , that ever any disciple dyed in the time of dipping , or by occasion of submission to that dispensation . rantist . if there be not such danger of death to the baptized , yet the baptizers may be murderers of themselves , for it is evident that if the minister must go into the water with the party , it will certainly tend to his death ( saies mr. baxter p. ) though they may scape that go in but once ; for weak students to make a frequent practise of going into the water , it will cure their ich after novelties , and allay the heat of their intemperate zeal : therefore me thinks ( saies mr. baxter ) the ministers should have regard to themselves . baptist. me thinks so too , or else they are not like their wonted selves , for self was ever yet for ought i see regarded by most nationall ministers much more then truth . but i pray sirs how certainly will it tend to your ministers death , any more then it doth to the death of our ministers that do dispense it , among whom i have known men full as sickly , though not half so selfish as you , that have often dipped men in the sharpest seasons , and yet never lay by it so much as once , but your ministers are weak students indeed , that are studyed no further in common sense and reason , and experienced no more in cold , and other gospel hardships , which paul was skilled in , then to think that genum tenus must certainly and unavoidably make an end of them , unless the lord by a miracle deliver them , and such as are fitter to make curates of for gentlemens chappels of ease then to take care of the poor afflicted church of christ. rantist . well , if it do not prove to be murder , and so against the eighth commandement , yet i am sure it will prove to be adultery to dip naked , as they say you do , and so flatly against the seventh , for either you dip naked or you do not , if you do not , then you cannot dip the whole body : but if you do , if that be not so shame fully sinful as is scarce fit to be named among christians , i know not what is : and this mr. cook and mr. baxter doth intimate to us , whose words i shall also intimate to you at the present . i would know with these new dippers saith mr. cook , whether the parties to be doused and dipped may be baptized in a garment , or no ? if they may , then happily the garment may keep the water from some part of the body , and then they are not rightly , baptized , for the whole man say they must be dipped . again , i would ask what warrand they have for dipping , or baptizing garments more then the papists have for baptizing bells ? therefore belike the party must be naked , and multitudes present , as at johns baptism , and the parties men and women at ripe years , being able to make confession of their faith and repentance ; yet though they both sin against the sixth commandement indangering life , and against all common honesty and civility , and christian modesty required in the seventh commandement , they must have this way observed , because they fancy it the onely baptism : shall we think saith he , this was the baptism of john , christ and his apostles ? thus he , and saies mr. baxter , another wickednesse in their manner of baptizing is their dipping persons naked , as is very usuall with many of them , or next to naked , which is usuall with the modestest that i have heard of , against which i argue thus . if it be a breach of the seventh commandement , thou shalt not commit adultery , ordinarily to baptize the naked , then it is intollerable wickednesse , and not gods ordinance , but so it is , therefore . the minor is thus evident saith he , that commandement forbids all incitements to uncleannesse , and all immodest actions , but to baptize women naked is an immodest action , and an incitement to uncleanness therefore , and to this he saies mr. tombes answered it was thought no immodesty in former times ; but though it may seem no immodesty in countries where they still go naked , yet among such as are not savages me thinks it should saith mr. baxter ; if mr. t. could baptize naked all the maids in bewdly , and think it no immodesty , he hath lost his common ingenuity , and modesty with the truth . thirdly , every good man is to watch over his heart , and to pray that he be not led into temptation , and would it be no snare and temptation to mr. t. to be frequently imployed in baptizing maids naked ? me thinks the very mention of it saith he , could i avoid it is immodest , and what it may be to all sorts of spectators i stand not to expresse ; besides all this saith he , it is likely to raise jealousies in ministers wives and others , and so to foment continual dissentions , and it will make the ministry a scandal , and make the people look on them as so many vile incontinent men , if auricular confession brought that infamy , no wonder if ordinary baptizing naked do it . further , it would debauch the people , and bereave them generally of all common modesty , if once it growes into custom to behold each others nakednesse , and sure that practise is not of god , which so directly tends to bereave men of all common civility , modesty , ingenuity and humanity : moreover , it would make the worship of god ridiculous , would not vain young men come to a baptizing to see the nakednesse of maids , and make a meer jest and sport of it ? moreover the practise of baptizing naked would bring a general reproch upon the christian profession among the enemies of it , and discredit the truth , for when christians have the repute of adamites , who will turn christians ? sober men will be loath to take a woman to wife that hath the impudency to shew her self naked to an assembly , and would esteem it next to taking one from the stewes . if they shall say to all this , as mr. tombes said in his sermon , it is not necessary they be naked , i reply saith he , first if it be next to naked the difference is not great , and the former inconveniences will follow , and god would not have the iewes go up by steps on his altar , lest their nakednesse be discovered thereon , cam was curst for beholding his fathers nakedness , christ tells us it is adultery to look on a woman to lust after her ; the scripture forbids filthiness , and uncleannesse , as not to be named among saints . secondly , such as would have them wholly , or mostly covered differ from their partners , and to dip them covered will overthrow their own arguments ▪ for the necessity of washing the whole body , for this will be no washing but a soaking or steeping , if they stay in long enough , it may wash the garment , but the body will be but infused in all likelihood , and so i leave this unsavory practise , which were it not necessary to confute i should not meddle with it . but in these last cases we dispute not against bare words , but against experiences , and known practises , for their naked baptizing is a known thing , and the wickednesse that hath followed on some , and that some have died on 't , and i would saith he , have others more wise , and escape both dangers , onely let me say saith he , thus much more that it is very suspicious , and to me unsavory that mr. t. should say no more , but that it is not necessary they should be baptized naked , and in cold water , as if he took it to be lawful , but not necessary : me thinks he should rather have given his testimony against it , as sinful , and expressed some dislike , if he he do indeed dislike it , and judge it sinful , and if he do not , i dare say he is very far gone : one may see what you are by the words of these men , who have here set you out in your colours , so that i hope all , that read or hear what they say , will rather abhor then adore your dipping doings , and if you were not a people past all shame and sense of sin , me thinks you should abhorre your selves in dust and ashes , at the remembrance of your abhominable baseness in this particular ; yea give me leave to say one word more to you , who were a minister once that did baptize infants , and it is the words of mr. baxter to mr. tombes p. . i conjecture that by that time you have baptized half as many maids and women naked in a cold river , as you have baptiz'd infants like an officiating priest , your feet will either take cold , or your heart will take heat : if you would be ruled by me you should not indeavour to introduce into the church a custome for every young minister or neighbour , so much as to look on a bathing bathsheba or susanna , least to those without , the name of a church and a stewes , a presbyter and a pander , a christian and a fornicator , do prove synonimaes . baptist. to those without ? i wonder who those are ? those without your church must be out of the nation too for ought i know , and cannot well see what is done by you in it : but to let that passe . here is thunder enough , but no lightning , a shrill sound but an empty barrel ; such is mr. baxters book indeed , specially this twofold fardle about murder and adultery , in which whether there be more noise or non-sense i know not , but sure i am there is ten times more twittle-com-twattle then truth : this doctrine would make a terrible rumbling in a country church as they say , and make all the people amazed to hear what manner of men these anabaptists be , but he that sleeps there with his eyes open , will be s●und no more at the hearing of this clamor , then by the barking of the bells in the steeple ; i must needs confesse that this is matter of weight indeed , and a stone is heavy , and the sand weighty , but a fooles wrath is heavier then them both : this soon shot bolt is big enough to hurt where it hits , but as it happens it hits not us : and so happens to hurt them most that mannage it ; as for us , against whom it is managed , it rejoices us rather then otherwise , sith it reproaches and reviles , and saies all manner of evil against us falsely for christs sake mat. . . . pet. . . . . if our dipping were such evil doing i. e. murder and adultery as these men say it is , we had reason to hang down our heads indeed , and might well be ashamed in suffering from them in this particular , but sith as paul said act. . ▪ they cannot prove the things whereof they accuse us , we are not ashamed , but glorifie god on this behalf . of these two accusers of the brethren mr. cook is more candid , and a little more modest then the other , and yet he utters so much that he hath much reason to be ashamed of it , for howbeit he does not so audaciously charge us with that foul fact of naked dipping as the other doth , yet by some simple supposals , first , that persons cannot be rightly baptized by dipping with a garment on [ as if they may not be put under , and covered and buried therein cloathed aswell as naked , and as if a soaking or steeping in water ( mr. baxters bald conceit of our dipping ) were not a washing or burying . ] secondly that it is as unwarrantable to baptize garments , as t is for the papists to baptize bells [ as if those that baptize persons in garments , did as directly , and intentionally baptize garments , as the papists do baptize bells , or as if it were more unwarrantable for us to wet the cloathes , that persons are baptized in , when we baptize their bodies , then t is for the priests to wet the head cloaths of infants when they rantize their faces . ] by such silly supposals i say as these that there can be no true totall dipping , unless the persons be uncloathed , he subtly insinuates the world into a certain supposition , at least a shrewed suspition that dipping naked is the onely baptism dispensed among us , for which hee 'l once be ashamed ; but as for mr. baxter he is so uningenuous , impudent and uncivilly foolish in this present parcel of his , you have here spread before us , that i professe against it as having in it much falsenesse , and more immodesty then i ever saw expressed at the totall dipping of any person that ever i saw dipped in my life : for he not only makes a long supervacaneous discourse of his dislike of dipping women and maids naked ( in which is such a needlesse and over often nomination of those termes too , as tends more to the offending of chast , and corrupting of unchast consciences , then to any use of edifying at all ) but also most rashly relates it to the whole world to be the usuall , ordinary known practise of a people , that are as abhorrent of such abominations as himself . as for his argument it is a fallacy called ignoratio elenchi , for he concludes not the point in question , for they , who stand most for baptizing by totall dipping , are all ( for ought that ever i heard of ) as much against naked dipping as himself : yea so far are we all , ( if any had been otherwise minded mr. baxter would surely have assigned them , whose design was to vilifie us what he could , so far are we all from countenancing such a practise , that i dare , in the name of all the churches of the baptists through england , declare their unanimous utter detestation of it , in mr. baxters own words , viz. that it is a breach of the seventh commandment , an intollerable wickednesse , an immodest action , an incitement to uncleannesse , likely enough to raise jealousies in ministers wives , yea and other womens husbands too , and so to foment continuall dissention , a means to debauch people , and bereave them of all common civility , modesty , ingenuity , and humanity , to turn gods worship into contempt , and make it meerly ridiculous , to bring a general reproach upon the christian profession among all the enemies thereof , yea amongst the most sober and discreet , to discredit the truth , and prejudice men against it ; yea verily t is scandal , reproach and discredit enough , in that it is but belied by mr. baxter to be so base , how much more , and more justly would it be reproached , if his reports were as true as they are full of falsehood ; we i say acknowledg the practise of naked dipping to be as bad , as mr. baxter proves it to be , therefore quorsum haec ? to what purpose doth he with such prolixity proceed to prove , what no sober minded man of either party doth deny ? this is aliud a negato ; a plain absurd a berration from the question , which is not whether it be a sin ordinarily to dip naked or no ? but whether we ordinarily use that kind of dipping ? the first which none doubts of , he indeavours to make evident as one that light ▪ a candle , whereby to shew men that the sun shines . the second , which is unknown utterly among us , he proclaims to be our usual , notorious , known practise : but he offers no proof of this at all . such silly sophistry as this mr. baxter uses also in almost every of these arguments , whereby he professes to disprove our practise as unwarrantable , concluding all along another point than that in question ; for whereas our tenet is that persons at years , professing to believe , of what parents so ever born , are to be baptized , he most simply , and sinisterly concludes against us , as he supposes , in a matter of four or five arguments that the children of christians may not be baptized when they come to years , and that this practise of baptizing of christians children is utterly unconsistent with the rule of christ : as for us we say as much , neither is it our practise or opinion to baptize christians children at age , upon that account meerly , as they are christians children any more then the children of them that are no christians , unlesse they professe to be believers and christians themselves as their parents do , and upon that account , viz. as they professe to believe , we baptize hea●hens children as soon as them . thus the man busies himself beyond measure in beating the aire , and wearyes himself ad ravim usque , and his reader ad nauseam in refuting non entities , about the proof of such things as no body denies , and per ignorationem elenchi concludes that , which is as clear to his antagonists ▪ as to himself , and leaves that utterly undemonstrated , which is the onely thing denyed by them , the absurdity of whose way he pretends it to be his businesse to discover . for verily those , against whom he fights under the name of anabaptists , are as clear in it as he can be , that no christians child qua talis is to be baptized when he comes to years , saving upon the same account , on which an heathens child may be at years so baptized as well as he , viz. his own personal profession of faith , and desire of baptism . again they hold dipping naked to be intollerable wickednesse as well as he , yet these things he be labours himself not a little in making good , but that which is denyed indeed , viz. that it is our usual practise to dip women and maids naked , this he charges us with most stoutly , most desperately , and tells a tale of us most absurdly to the base abusing of himself , the true church , and the whole world also , but he is so impertinent , and impertinently imployed in proving naked dipping to be a sin , that he either forgets , or has no while to prove it to be practised by us at all , but sirs who , but he that sees the right eye of the idol shepheard to be utte●ly darkned , would ever think that from such a man as mr. ba. desires to be accounted , such a piece of paultry should proceed , that such a messe of balterdash as here is should ere be broached by him , that such a mad report of the walkers in truth should be publisht by one that goes for a publisher of the truth among thousands of deluded people ? me thinks i see satan gone forth and become a lying spirit in the mouthes of the prime among their prophets , perswading and in the just judgement of god prevailing with multitudes of meer formal gospellers to be strongly deluded , and to believe lies out of their mouthes that they may be damn'd , because they receive not the truth , that was troden down for monthes , and now rises again and shines forth , in the love therof that they may be saved , but have pleasure in unrighteousness and superstition and have no pleasure in the truth . me thinks i see national ministers of singular piety in peoples eyes prove men of singular pravity , singularly bewitched into an implicit belief of the base tales that vain fellowes raise of the way of truth , and singularly bewitching their people into implicit belief of them , that so it is as they say , that neither priest nor people may obey the truth , but both stumble , and fall and be broken , and snared , and taken , and ashamed each of other in the end . good lord how is the practise of the truth made a reproach unto thy people , and a derision dayly ? for i have heard the defaming of many , report say they , and we will report it , possesse the pulpit and make the priest believe it , and then all the country shall ring out , and the people soon be diabolized into the faith on 't ; but hear ye rude reprochers of that people , that are reprovers of the wayes , whereby you run a whoring from the lord , you shall not prevail by such sleights , such plausible pretences , you shall be greatly ashamed , you shall not prosper , and , unlesse you repent of your belying the truth of god , your everlasting confusion , shall never be forgotten . it is too bad to be credulous to flying reports , worse so violently to vent them , worst of all malevolently to invent them , i dare not say , nor dare i deem mr ba. to be guilty of the last , but of the two first i cannot clear him , sith i perceive that he takes it for a truth that we ordinarily dip naked , and thereupon disputes against it as our usuall practise , and then not confidently onely , but of a certain relates to the whole world that it is no bare word , nor any doubtful thing , but an experience , a known practise : if he can clear himself he hath leave to do it for me , who also summon him in the name of christ jesus , whose true disciples he hath done such dispite to ( the lord keep him from despiting the spirit of grace ) the people of whose love are the people of his wrath , to prove it our practise ordinarily to dip naked , yea to produce but one instance of any women o● maids that ever he saw dipt naked in all his daies , and i le abate him much of that i now accuse him of in the court of my conscience , but if he say as indeed he does in effect that he never saw any dipt at all , whilst p. . he saies that all that ever he saw baptized had water powred on them , how can he say epertus loquor , it is his experience , he having never so much as seen such a thing , unlesse it were upon the brazen fac't front of featleyes book , where he fasly , feignedly , and filthily describes men and women dipping in that fashion , or else upon the titlepage of ephraim pagit , who there paltrily pictures out this people practising , thus and there i believe he hath experienced it , or if he only hath it from the the mouthes of such as heard it from the mouthes of others , who never saw it , but receive it by tradition as well as he , and that originally too from the mouthes of some that made it , and in such a manner very likely it was first bruted , for i am perswaded there was never such a thing done of late in england unless by some arch knave and arrant whore in way of mockage to the gospel , which is rather a glory , then a shame to christ his truth , then let mr. ba. bear the blame of his blind blaspheming the people of the everliving god. or if he know indeed that such a thing as baptizing maids and women naked hath been done in serious wise by any persons , i further challenge him to make some proof of it , and to print the names of such men as have done it ; and such maids and women that have suffered themselves to be dipped naked , and the names of such credible eye witnesses as will testify it as in the sight of god , which if he can , though i shall not give place to him thereupon so as to be satisfyed therby for his overlashing in asserting it to be our practise to dip naked , or for condemning and denominating a whole party , much more their cause , by the defects & abuses of some persons whom the cause disclaimes , for then there was . devils because one among the twelve , and then what an augaean stable is your church of england by many members of which notorious roguery is committed every houre ? yet i shall satisfy him so far as to undertake that the church , or churches where such are shall declare every such person as hath wrought such abomination , incommunicable without solemn repentance for that sordid practise , or be themselves incommunicable by all other churches . but i beli●ve he cannot do it , though i cannot positively possibly prove a negative , much more am i confident that he cannot make good his charge against us , viz. that it is our ordinary and usual practise : for besides no lesse then between one and two hundred , which in grosse i can ghesse at , which with these hands i have baptized , i have seen with these eyes many a one more baptized by others , yet never did i see male or female baptized naked to this hour , nor next to naked neither , if i understand mr. baxs . meaning in that bawbling phrase of next to naked ; yea i suppose i may safely say my converse for these years together and upward hath been with them that are commonly called anabaptists , and my businesse hath been for so long time at least among that people more then i perceive mr. baxs . hath , and much more then among any other people , being more or lesse acquainted with a score of their congregations , yet howbeit mr. blake flings a little at us too , and hath his fingers so far in this spatter , as to say page . those that have put a kind of necessity upon dipping have spoken much of being received naked ●n baptism , i never heard the least speech of such a thing , nor a syllable among them to such a purpose . and if mr. ba. cannot prove it to be our ordinary known practise to dip naked then in the name of the lord jesus before whom he and i shall shortly both appear , i intreat mr. ba. who as concerning zeal yet persecutes the church of god , & poures out reproach upon true christians , giving his voice for them with as much modesty as haman est. . . as for high way murderers , alias that they may all suffer execution being through blindnesse and excaecation exceedingly mad against them , that of an ignorant saul he would become a seeking , a searching , a seeing , a preaching paul of the faith , which he hitherto destroies : and though he verily thinks with himself that he ought to do what he does against the truth , yet i beseech him to know that he is but as others have been b●fore him , zealous of god , but not according to knowledg , sith it is but of the traditions of his fathers gal. . , and sith he avers from his heart page . that for his part he neither knowes the day nor year when he began to be sincere , no nor the time when he began to professe himself a christian , in which i believe him , if he mean a christian in scripture sense , i begg of him in the bowels of christ jesus , that he would now begin to be sine cerâ a christian indeed , not by the halves , but altogether , for there is yet a mixture of much wax among his honey , and of much antichristianism in his christianity , and as sure as he is ignorant when he began to professe to be a christian , so sure i am that he never yet began to professe to be a christian in truth , who knowes not that ever he was otherwise , but hath and holds his profession as the turk and jew do theirs viz. for the true one at a venture , because they were born and bred in it , and received it by tradition onely from forefathers . and as he will prove himself to be what he professes to be viz. a hater of ignorant violence , so i advise him to be a hater also of violent ignorance , of which hateful quallity in my mind he hath as much as any of the greedy gang , gangraena it self onely excepted , not excepting dr. featley , dr. bastwick , mr. bayliff , mr pagit , not any among the proud pack of prelates , that most perheminently prate against the gospel . and sith mr. ba. saies this much more that it is very suspicious , and to him unsavory that mr. t. should say no more but that it is not necessary that they be baptized naked , as if he took it to be lawfull , though not necessary , and thinkes he should rather have given his testimony against it as sinful , and expressed some dislike if he do indeed dislike , and judge it sinful , and if he do not he dare boldly say he is very far gone , let me say thus much more , that then it is as suspicious , and to me unsavory , that mr. ba. should say no more but that it is a breach of the seventh commandement , ordinarily to baptize the naked , as if he took it to be lawful to do it sometimes , but not ordinarily : me thinks he should giue his testimony against it as sinful , to do it at all , and express some dislike if he do indeed dislike and judge it sinful , and if he do not , i dare boldly say he is gone farther in filth , then mr. t. or any baptized person ever went yet , save such as are gone quite off from the way of truth to the dishonour of it since they owned it , whose sin yet ( the more shame for mr. ba. ) he in his next argument , laies to the truths charge , and theirs , who both own and honour it by abiding in it , who are lesse gladly , and more sadly sensible of their sins , and villanies then mr. ba. can be , by how much by reason of their lasciviuos wayes , which many follow , the way of truth they walk in is , as was foretold it should be pet. . . . . by mr. ba. and his admirers evil spoken of . but if mr. ba. shall still say it is suspicious and unsavory for mr. t. to say the one , but not for himself to say the other , and will none of the foregoing advice to repent and be baptized , but rather reject the counsel of god against himself being not baptized , because he hath experience ( by hearsay ) that we baptize females naked , then a rod and a rod for the back of mr. baxter , who pardons to himself the same defects , wherein he holds others guilty , who so slenderly takes up every tattle against the truth , and proclaimes it for truth to the whole world , for the simple believeth every word , but the prudent man looks well to his going prov. . a prudent man foresees evil and secures himself , but the simple passe on and are punished prov. . . as for his next and last argument against us which he drawes from the judgments of god that ever follow us , wherein he jumbles all kinds of sectaries into the name of anabaptists as the antibaptists use commonly to do , witnesse featley and others , and makes them bear the burden of all the mischiefs that were ever perpetrated by all the mad braind men in all the world , as iohn of leyden and all the rest of his ranting strain , it is scarce current consequence to say gods judgements are upon a people , therefore that people are none of his , for all things come alike to all , & none knowes love or hatred by what is before him here eccl. . . and the . . . . yet sith he speaks of ruinating judgements , let the consequence passe as valid , but then his minor is utterly false , for the anabaptists are not all ruinated yet , nor will be till the clergy are quite cashiered , as evident as it is that they have every where withered and suddenly come to nought heretofore , and since he speakes of spiritual judgements e. g. that practise saith he hath never helped , but hindred the work of god where it comes , nor hath god blest their ministry to conversion of soules as he hath other mens , but rather they have been instruments of the churches scandal and misery . secondly , that hath been the inlet to most other vile opinions , few stop at it but go much further , god hath usually given up their societies to notorious scandalous wicked lives , and conversations more then others that professe godlinesse , and never prospered them so far as to have any established churches , which should credit the gospel . i grant that some of these are sad emblems of a people none of gods , onely mr. ba. hath here saddled the wrong asse , for this way of baptism hinders onely the work of mans tradition , which would make void the commandement of god , but being it self the work and way of god , is hindred where ere it comes by priestly malice , preaching gods fear after precepts of men , nor hath god blessed the nationall ministry to the true conversion of soules as he hath done theirs , but to the conversion of them to a gospel of their own making , for repent and be baptized was the gospel that peter preached , and that is it that is now practised by us , and how many are converted and baptized accordingly is so evident , that it needs no proof at this hour , but repent and be not baptized is the gospel the priesthood preaches , and if you call that conversion , which indeed is confusion , we confesse their converts are more more then ours , such instruments of scandal and misery to the true churches are the priests in all places by their reproaches , nor is baptism the inlet of any vile opinions any more then the same was in the primitive times , wherein many that were baptized did turne hereticks , when they had done , as they do now , but what wise man then imputed it to their baptism ? and yet some of those opinions mr. ba. calls vile , will be proved to his conscience in due time to be the truth : yet many that are baptized do run out to very vile opinions ▪ and practises no better then their principles , and stop not there indeed as he saies , but go much further , and degenerate into wayes o● wickednesse more abominable then ever in former time , and of these ranters mr. copp is none of the least attainers , whom mr. ba. p. . hath very well set forth in his colours , for i believe god in iustice hath given him up , and many other besides him to more notoriousnesse of error and enormity , then ever any that profest godlinesse , but what then ? shall we impute that fault to his being baptized ? i trow not ; for howbeit mr. ba. so imagines , yet it was because he honoured not the truth , when he had owned it , nor walked in christ after he had received him , in which case how often god gives over to strong delusions is evident , not only by the word , which declares that when men like not to retain god in their knowledge he oft gives them over unto vile affection , but also by sad experience in the world in these last times , wherein pet. . . tim. . . and the . . . doctrines of divels are rife among them , that once owned the faith , yet the faith not a whit in fault for all that , but departure from the faith before expressed . and that the fall of these men is into worse then ever before , it is no argument against , but rather for the way they newly fall from , the sensuality of such as separate themselves from the true churches in the later times , i. e. congregational after these are once separated from the false ones i. e. the nationall , being prophesied of pet. . iude . of old , that it should be greater then that of all beastly men that were before them ; besides corruptio optimi pessima , the higher the rise into reformation , the more desperate the fall into deformation , of those that reform and prove deformed again : that greater depth of hell therefore men fall into that fall from us , proves the hight of our churches to be neerer heaven , then that of yours , for if after they have escaped &c. pet. . . . . when cop was in his standing in the church of england , i remember very well , for i knew him better then then ever since , he had some bounds from conscience to his corruption , but having been once inlightned higher then mr. baxter ever was yet in the will and way of god , and tasted of the heavenly gift , and made a partaker of the holy spirit , and obeyed the truth as it is in jesus , and yet fallen away , his conscience is seard with a hot iron , and i have small hope of his renewing against by repentance , who thus denies the lord that bought him , and crucifies the lord afresh , and is twice dead , pluckt up by the roots , a raging wave of the sea foaming out his own shame . but what is all this to those that yet walk in truth of baptism , more then to warn them that they depart not from it , as he hath done , lest they come into the same condemnation with him ? doth it prove baptism to be the cause of that grosness that often followes , when a person is baptized ? in no wise , for his non abiding in the love of the truth ▪ and that doctrine of christ gives god occasion to give over to the height of wickednesse . i appeal therefore to the conscience of mr. baxter , . whether the pope may not by as good consequence charge all these errors that are upon protestanism , saying thus , the ptotestants stop not there , but run out further from episcopacy to presbytery , and to independency , and so to anabaptism , and so to all ? it is true , protestanism is occasio or causa sine qua non , for such as sit still in the smoak of the popes traditions , are not acquainted with the new found fancies of the ranter , but protestanism is not the true cause . : whether mr. ba , be so well aware as he should be what time of day it is , when peter and iude point out these things so plainly ; and yet he wonders at them as a mystery ? . whether the few owning , and the few abiding in the true way of baptism , doth not prove it to be the streit and narrow way that leads to life , which few find ? . whether he think we lay not to heart their misery and madnesse that run off from us as well as he , and strive not to warn and watch over them as much as he ? and if so , why he blames us more then himself , that , do what we can , so many run to ruin ? besides some he names were never baptized , though neer it , as mr. saltmarsh . . whether it be just to load them that still stick to the truth , with the blame of all their blasphemies that go off from it ? t is true the way of truth will be evil spoken of by the priest , by reason of the madnesse of the false prophet pet. . . but that is ought let every reasonable man examine : the rantizer renounces his sprinkling , and is baptized in truth , and after renounces that , and runs on to be a ranter , and then all is reckoned to his baptism : poor truth may say quum nemini obtrudi potest , itur ad me : every one shifts it off from himself , and truth must carry the scandal , and baptism bear the burden of all : the priest and his people are they by whom , the false prophet and his people they by reason of whom the way we walk in is evil spoken of , but vae illis per quos , vae illis presertim propter quos , veritatis via blaspemabitur , quam optimum esset utrisque , si nati non fuissent : mat. . . & . . pet. . . what force therefore is in this argument to conclude against the truth of our way ? yea what absurdity is in all mt. baxters arguments against us you see , in all which he sits beside the cushion , yea and indeed the whole bulk of them is nothing but a thing full of emptinesse . rantist . i would fain see you answer that book as nothing as it is , i believe it is more then ever will be answered by any to any purpose . baptist. first , there is a great part of his book needs no answering from us , being such an absurd aberration from what we hold and practise in contradistinction to him , to other things , which he undertakes to disprove , though we ( and who doth not ? ) do join with him fully in them , and do hold as he does , as namely , almost all those or arguments from page . to page . wherein he spends himself mostly in declaring against judgements and practises , that are no more ours , nor any ones else , that i know of , more then his own : for who holds christians children quâ christians children , i. e. without their own personal profession of faith , and christianity , in which case heathens children may be baptized also , are to be baptized when they come to years , any more then the children of heathens ? again , who holds or practises such a thing as naked dipping of women and maids ? not i , nor any man breathing under heaven i imagin , nor will any wise man be coxcombd into the belief of it that t is our practice i hope , because mr. ba. disputes against it as ours , yet these are the main matters argl'd against well nigh in all those pages , yea if he prove the baptism of christians children at years ordinarily to be against rule , t is fully sufficient against the anabaptists , saith he , if we had not a word more against them , the man feigns adversaries to himself , and finds himself work with them , and takes on and layes about him like a thatcher , and fights , and fences against his foes when he hath none at all about him . secondly , much if not more then a third part of it , viz. from p. . to p. . consists almost universally in a particular private publike prate to mr. tombs in vindication of himself f●om mr. tombs's valedictory vindication of himself from mr. baxs . abuses of him , which tedious , mixt , blattering recrimination , and red-argumentation , if any save mr. tombs himself , whom it so personally relates to , shall trouble himself with from better employment , and the world with any more reply to , then the lord rebuke him , he hath more time then wisdom profitably to improve it . thirdly much if not much more then a third part of the residue , viz. from p. . to . he spends in division with other divines for pleading and practising baptism to infants from other grounds and principles and to other ends and purposes then himself doth , as namely , from tradition , and yet in order to baptismal regeneration , as mr bedford , who is fain to fly to tradition for proof of infant baptism , and yet holds that baptism doth really as an instrumental efficient cause confer , and effect the grace of regeneration of nature on infants , which mr bedford , dr. burges , dr. ward , together with mt. baxter himself , and i know not how many more divines , in the meandrous multitudinous mist of whose pro and con opinions a man may sooner loose himself then find the truth , are all ore the tops of the boots in dissentaneous discourses about a businesse called baptismal regeneration , the quiddity , quantity , and commodity of which non ens , of which nonsense , as to infants , is so curiously pryed into , and learnedly inquired after by them , that it is not for every ordinary body , that hath no more learning then peter and iohn had , who never scholasticallized the plain gospel out of the reach of plain men and poor folks , as our rabbies now adaies do , to come within a mile or two of their meaning ; some divining on this wise , some on that , some one thing , some another , some that baptism is instituted to work the first grace in infants , i. e. habitual , but not in men , in whom the first grace is prerequired , as mr. bedford , some thwarting that by this reason , that baptism cannot have two different uses to men and infants , and yet saying with all , that it may be for some ends to the aged , for which it is not to infants , as mr. baxter , some saying that baptism is a physical , some a metaphysical , some a hiperphysical instrument to convey real grace into infants ▪ the spirit working it in them thereby naturally , or rather supernaturally , as mr. bedford who holds that it really conveyes grace on all infants elect , or non elect , and dr. burges , who yet differs and subdivides from him , holding that it conveyes grace on the elect infants only , and not on the non-elect , some that baptism is onely a moral instrument , and the spirit neither a physical nor hyperphysical , but a moral agent in baptism , signifying and so working on the souls , sealing and conveying no real grace , but relative grace , i. e. right to the real , as mr. baxter , who saith that real true grace and change of mind is to go before baptism , as a condition both in the institution , and every example of baptism through all the bible , therefore not to be conveyed in it , this mr. baxter proveth by the institution math. . . mark . and by the examples of the iewes , samaritans , the eunuch , paul , lydia , the iaylor , the corinthians , who all did gladly receive the word , repent and believe , and then and thereupon only were baptized p. . and because all this is exclusive of infants , who have no faith nor grace ( for to the utter confutation of the ashford disputers , who say infants in their infancy have faith and the spirit of grace , and that apparently enough , the scripture making it plainly appear concerning them ) mr. baxter professeth that it is utterly unknown to any man on earth and unrevealed in the word , whether god give infants any inherent spiritual grace or not p . therefore to salve his baptism of infants that have not that grace , and faith in them , that is prerequired to be in persons to be baptized , as a condition , he very goodly tells us that by grace and faith being prerequired , as a condition , he means either in the party or another for him , so then though infants have no faith in themselves yet o mirandum ! they have faith in the loines , i. e. in the hearts of their parents , and so are to be baptized , th●y are buryed in the dipping of the ministers hand saith featley , and believe by the faith of their parents , saith mr. baxter . thus oh how these men , who more stink of the schooles then skill in the scriptures , are at variance about their own inventions , bending their brains some one way , some another , to botch up their businesse of infant-baptism , and yet , as fast as one builds up , another of them saves us a labour , and razes and pulls down to our hands ; oh what stoch , what stuff , what stirs , what strife , what stickling , what striking flatly against each others principles , what a ditty , what a do is here among them ? as if the divines were all mad : so let all the fraternity of divines be divided o god , and fall out ever about their own falsities , till they find thy truth , and never let them agree better among themselves on what account to baptize infants , till they ( ashamed of themselves , and people ashamed of waiting on the seers for determination of what is truth ) be all driven to confesse as ( blessed be thy name ) mr. baxter doth already p. . that they find it a hard controversie to prove infant baptism it is so dark in the scripture , much more a hard task to prove different uses of it to men and infants , as needs they must if they prove it to be of use to infants , for it signifies not at all to them as it does to men , and so to conclude , to the freeing of themselves from that puzzle and perplexity , and fire of contention that now they fry in , for their hatred of that one onely plain way of truth that leades to piece , that verily t is not thy will that any infant at all should be baptized ; and let mr. ba. who was once in doubt of infant baptism , upon sight of the slender grounds that other divines did hold it from , till satan seduced him back again to the belief of it again , be perswaded ▪ if it be thy will , on sight of the more weak and slender principles , which with much ado he hath found out , whereon to satisfy himself and others , and to sit still in the shadow of that superstition , to be not almost onely , but altogether , saving their sufferings from him , such as thy servants are , whom he yet vilifies what he can . as then to mr. baxters appendix of animadversions on mr. bedfords , dr. burges , and dr. wards absurdities about baptismal regeneration of infants , t is no matter to us , yea i conceive it a likely means of it self to make wise men renounce infants baptism , that read there at what ods they are , and how they wrangle among themselves that own it ; beside sith he that passing by meddles with a strife not belonging to him is like one that takes a dog by the ears pro. . . i le passe by for my part , and not meddle with it at all . fourthly , another part of mr. baxters book is a small slender tract of about one leaf long penned in proof of baptisms abiding a standing ordinance of christ to the worlds end , and therein so far am i from excepting and contradicting , that i rather approve it , & considering the high head of contradiction that in this last loose age already is , and within a while much more , and mote headily will be made against it , and how the subtility of satan is such that sith he can uphold his kingdome now no longer by his old souldiers the rantizers , which changed the lawes and ordinances of christs kingdome , he seeks to do it by erecting a new moddle , of men , i mean the seekers , and ranters , who rase the very foundations of it , and how sith he can prevail no more to deceive the nations from the narrowway of truth by his old spiritualty the spiteful priest , he hath spit a new spiritualty out of his mouth , from which as from a greater carnalty then the other , the earth , that it may be ripe for the sickle as it must be at christs coming , shall abound with abomination i. e. they that separate themselves from the true church after their separation with them from the false , sensual having not the spirit , yet pretending more highly to it then ever any , considering all this , i say , i seriously side with mr. ba. as to that subject , and to shew him , who simply supposes we are all a people posting towards the pulling down of christs ordinances , because some do , and because all of us , as we are sworn to i● , seek what we are able to pull down mens , to shew him i say notwithstanding his conceits to the contrary , how close we keep according to the counsel both of peter and iude in that behalf pet. . . iude . to the commandements of christ and his apostles in these last daies , wherein they declare that others should depart from and despise them , to shew him also how little reason he hath to charge us with their evils , who are ( to use his own phrase p. ▪ ) above ordinances i. e. above obedience to god , and so gods themselves , i intend god willing be●ore this work escape my hand , that is now under it to bestow some few lines on the same subject , having been often requested to it by others in vindication to the truth . fifthly , as for the forepart of mr. baxs , book , for more then a fourth part of it is worn out in pream●ular passages , apologies , epistles to the church at kederminster , at bewdley , which churches alias parishes of k●d . and bew ▪ ( for all the people , till of late that some few have separated themselves together to mr. t. are church-members with mr. ba. in those two places p. . ) which parishes i say howbeit , sowing pillowes that they may sleep the more seeurely in superstition , mr. ba. by a dedication of his doings to the church at ked . to the church at bew. would fain flatter into a faith , that each of them is a church of iesus christ , yet i must crave leav● to inform those churches from christ , that as yet they are no other then church●s of the popes calling and constitution ; for the parochial posture of christning , and so inchurching of all that are born within the bounds , and barely abide within the precincts of the parish , had its order from the head of those churches viz. the vicar of christ ; but not at all from christ iesus himself , yea and though there may be many honest men in both ked . and bewdley , among whom if mr. ba. be one it shall not grieve me at all , yet according to dr. featleys , nor yet according to mr. baxs . own definition , who say a true visible church is a particular company of men professing the christian faith , known by two markes viz. the sincere preaching of the word , and due administration of the sacraments dr. featly p. ▪ or a society of persons separated from the world to god , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 called out of the world &c. mr. b. p. . neither of those two parishes are true visible churches of iesus christ , for neither were they ever yet called out of the world , or separated from the world to god in that wise i. e : by such meanes , and in such manner as christs church is i. e. by the pure preaching , of the word and pure power of god , but rather by the power of the word of man i. e. partly of the pope , and partly of the civil sword in this nation of old , under a penalty imposing upon them their present posture ; nor is the word preacht to them to this hour sincerely by mr. ba. or any other parish minister , who unlesse he sing a new song will make them no more a church of christ then he found them , but with wonderful much mixture of mans invention ; yea the fear of god is taught by him according to the precepts of men , much lesse are the sacraments rightly administred , for their baptism is no baptism at all . and as touching separation , i know but three separations they have had since they stood under the name of christian churches , answerable to the different christian religions , of point blank papism , prelatical prostantanism , and present presbyterianism , which the parishes haue past under since they have been parishes , viz. a presbyterian separation by appointment of the present parliament , who on pain of their displeasure commanded all to separate from the lesser superstitions of episcopall formes , ceremonies , services , to a finer and more directorian ▪ kind of protestant profession ; a generall protestant separation by the appointment of our english state under k. ed. and q. eliz. who commanded all on pain of their displeasure to separate from the romish grosser superstitions , popes supremacies , masse and other marian opinions and professions , also a parochial and a paropopical separation , or distinct oppidal division of their particular selves from each other , and all other particular churches i e. towns besides themselves , by the appointment of the pope and his subs and subsubs viz. christian emperours , kings and princes , who when they threw down their crownes , and gave up all their power to make one beast called christiendome , and themselves and theirs to be ruld and reignd over wholly by the whore at her wil , did both separate all christendome from the world , and then sub-separate it into many smaller christendomes , and constituted churches i. e , national provincial , parochial : and thus ked . and bew. first began to be churches , or societies visibly separated from the world viz. by the call of the pope , who separated one parish from another ; but christs churches had another separation i. e. by the word barely preached , and not by outward force imposed , they were called to faith in christ , and baptism , not rantism , into his name for remission of sins , and after that continued in the apostles doctrine , and in fellowlowship one with another , not forced , but free , and in breaking of bread and prayers : these are the churches to which as then , so now the lord adds dayly such as shall he saved , and therefore i must tell mr. ba. and the honest men in either ked . or bew. that are of mr. bs. beguiling that except they repenting both for and from their dead works , and their vain conversation in point of baptism , worship , church-fellowship &c received by tradition from their fathers , and their unadvised zeal in siding to smite christ with reproches thorow the sides of the true churches , be baptized better then ever they have been , and do as those did in act. . which as no infant then did so now none can do , they have neither the true matter nor the true form constitutive of the visible church of christ , yea so many of them onely as shall gladly receive the word , which infants cannot do , and yet may do well enough too , neither that nor walking in fellowship being required of them , as it is of others , and be baptized according to his will , shall be owned as the true visible church of christ in these two parishes as christs appearing . sixthly , the residue of mr. bs. book which containes his arch argumentation from three principles for infants baptsm viz. their discipleship church-membership and rightship of being dedicated unto christ , is for the most part , to the satisfaction of any that are minded to own the truth , though not so intentionally in way of formal answer to mr. ba. so fully and effectually enervated before , where the same arguments , as they are used by others , are examined , that it could amount to no other then superfluity , and tautologie to answer them over again , because they are urged in another , that is a more pedantick for me by him , whose work is not at all to produce any new principles from which to prove the point , but onely to improve more largely in a way of labor more long then strong , to manage more formally in a way of hipothetical syllogism , and to drive on more furiously these few old ones ; therefore excuse me , specially since mr. t. hath given reply some while since , who is more strictly concern'd in it , if i am loath , unless there were more need then mr. baxs . new triming up of two or three old arguments ministers thereunto , to begin and play over the whole game again ; i know a trick worth two of that viz. to refer you to what is already written by mr. t. and what i have said my self above , and my friend thereby be admonished , for to make many books , much more upon one subject is to no end , and much study is a weariness to the flesh , yet a general return i may chance to give , and some brief reply to his arguments in particular . the truest general verdict i can give of it , if i may speak my judgement without offence , is this , it is a three footed stool , the legs of which are all lame , and decrepid made by mr. bax. for the people of ked . and bewd . to sit at ease on , in that popish posture and practise ▪ in which truth being hid for ages and generations , both they and all christendome have been housed , and out of which christ jesus is now about to storm them ; it is a tree shooting forth with three trunkes against the truth , whereof the middlemost which is the main , runs out in tot ramos , ramulos , & ramusculos so many smaller boughs , twigs , and twiggles , and layes it self forth at large into such a train of trivials , so many littles to the purpose , that he will find himsel● great store of small businesse , that does more then think his think to his own self of each particular odde conceit , that is in it , or that ●alkes to the world of it any more then in the general , and in the lump . in the lump therefore i say in the sincerity of my soul , as in the sight of god , i see not what to stile it more suitably to it self in short , then a lump of logical superfluity , a systeme of syllogistical simplicity , wherein the man mannages his war like some fresh man that is newly metriculated into the faculty of logicking in mood and figure , that delights to hear himself syllogize out every syllable , as he hath scribled it over afore hand , and treasured it up in his papers ; so he comes out with a huge heap of hypotheticals , arguing at a vast distance from the business of baptism , and some times ex suppositis non supponen lis too , as if he would fetch infant baptism from far , sith t is so dark in scripture , as he confesses it is , that he cannot have it nigh at hand , proving more roundly then soundly , in a great circumference of consequence upon consequence , syllogism upon syllogism thus , if this then that , if this then that , if this then that , but this therefore that ; when not seldome neither this nor that is true ; but will you hear the conclusion of the whole matter ? it is this . ma. if some infants be disciples , and churchmembers , and to be devoted to god therefore to be baptized . mi. but so they are , therefore to be baptized . to which besides the sequel of the major , which i shall shew to be utterly false , i 'le prove the minor false by the prosecution of this syllogism . if infants be neither disciples in any sense , much lesse that in mat. nor church members of a gospel congregation , nor are to be devoted to god in such a sense as the jewish males , then not to be baptized ; but so they are not , ergo , not to be baptized . as for his mediums whereby he argues infants to be disciples , they are so frivolous and foolish , that a very child may be ashamed of them . the first , which is taken out of act. . . is so abundantly declared to be absurd before , that i need not clear it further , and therefore i 'le say the lesse to it here , he argues thus viz. those i. e. all those on whom the false teachers would have put the yoke of circumcision were disciples , but some of those on whom they would have layed that yoke were infants . ergo infants are disciples . the major of which is a foundation so ●alse and infirm , that i stand amaz'd at it that a man of logick should dare to lay it , yet well nigh every one of you builders lay it as your basis , from whence you divine a discipleship to infants , and thereon build the businesse of their baptism , as doctor featley , mr. marshall and others , yea who would think it ? inter scribendum while i am a writing this very line in answer to mr. bax. there is a trifle brought to my hands o● a sheet and a half , piping hot from the presse , penned by mr. simpson of marden , son to that mr. simpson of bethersden , whose private letters i answered above , stiled a soveraign preservative against anabaptism , in which there is nihil novi , no newes at all , for t is a furtive collection of some few fraggments out of other men viz. mr. blake , the ashfordian dispute and others , which all are also more then enough enervated before , whereupon i shall trouble my self no further then thus with that toy , the author whereof in his epistle to the anabaptists , as he calls them , about marden , tells strange stories of his being stormed on every side , and almost tired out with onsets and oppositions from their private letters , and among the rest he minds them how he had once to do with a host of them viz. september the tenth . in which conflict my self , who was more then an eye witnesse , though much inferior to a worthy brother then in presence also , viz. mr. blackwood , and therefore far from arrogating to my self the title of champion , with which he smites me in his margent , can testify how uncivilly and shamefully the man stormed against the truth , insomuch that unlesse he repent of the mad-blind , hare-brained zeal he then expressed , many , if not most of that auditory he then interrupted , whether he remember them of it or no , will surely never forget it while they live . in which book , i say as there is no new argument , so to be sure there is this old argument , as well as some more , translated out of mr. bax. or some other , whereby to prove infants discipleship p. . because the false teachers would have put the yoak of circumcision on them . but sirs what though they would have put the yoak on the disciples necks , will it therefore follow that they were all disciples on whose necks they would have put the yoake ? me thinks it should not , if you look well about you , any more then this , viz. augustus caesar put the yoak of tribute on all the jewes , i. e. taxed all the jewes , ergo , all they were jewes whom augustus taxed . nay verily had it been said they would have put the yoake of circumcision on all the disciples , as it is not , yet would it not have held retro that therefore all those on whom they would have put the yoak were disciples , but in very deed neither of those was true , for as it was not all the disciples on whom they would have put that yoake , for they did not teach that women should be circumcised , so all were not disciples on whom they would have put that yoak , for male infants not being capable to be taught cannot possibly be disciples at all , much lesse such disciples as are meant in that place , of whom it is most evident that they were taught verse . much more might be said in disproof of this foolish fancy but that enough is spoken to it before , yet this is the first medium whereby mr. bax. bends himself to make it good that some infants are disciples , and his other are as mean to the full as this , he proves it next by a disjunctive thus , if infants be not disciples , it is either because they are uncapable so to be , or else because god will not shew them such a mercy . but neither of these can be the cause , ergo , some infants are disciples . to which i answer that t is not because god will not shew them so great a mercy , for most undoubtedly the lord shewes far greater mercie then that , though not that to infants that dy in infancy , for he saves them and gives unto them everlasting life , and admits them into the kingdome of heaven , and as for that bare simple notion , outward account and denomination of disciples , what extraordinary great mercy is that i wonder if it be abstracted from the other ? t is not so great a mercy but persons may have it , and yet be damned for all that , nor so great a mercy , but that the mercy of god may be as great to them without it , nor so great as that they are capable of any more benefit by it from the church , or from their parents , then they are capable of if they have it not , they may be prayed for by the church and by their parents full as much , and be brought up by them in the nurture and admonition of the lord , not onely as well , but much better , when they are capable of being disciples , and instructed , though in infancy neither counted disciples , nor baptized , as if they were supposed to be disciples before they are taught , it is therefore because they are not capable to be discipled in their nonage , and the true reason why they are not capable , is that which mr. t. alledged , and alas that it should not satisfy mr. bax. viz. because they cannot learn what is taught them . mr. bax. knowing that , fetches a compasse about another way whereby to prove them capable to be disciples , viz. their being servants of christ , and subjects of christs kingdome , and thirdly their belonging to christ , but what a pittiful piece of proof , what a messe of miserable mistake is this , as if to belong to christ , to be christs subject , gods servant , and christ disciple were convertible , and alltogether one and the same , wheras howbeit it cannot be denyed but that every disciple of christ belongs to christ , and is his subject , and gods servant , yet that every one who may be said to belong to christ , to be gods servant , and his subject , is christs disciple cannot be asser●ed without more absurdity , then mr. bax. is willing to take notice of in himself , for mr. t. gives him an item of it plain enough , for any reasonable man to consider of , but he is deaf to it through a mind forestalld against the truth . he tells us that infants are capable to be gods servants levit. . . . and therefore consequently christs disciples , and consequently to be baptized , for disciples and gods servants signifie the same thing , denote the same persons , and that there is the same capacity requisite to both p. . . yea if there be a difference saith he , there is more required to a servant then to a disciple , but what wretched evidence is here , when as there 's nothing more clear , and palpably evident , then this , that more is required to make a disciple then a servant , yea verily the consequence holds sound from christs disciple , to gods servant , but from gods servant to christs disciple , which is his way of arguing a very novice may see it rotten , and invalid : there is enough in all the creatures , the earth and heavens , which as books , wherein we may read it , though not as men that make any verball narration of it , declare the glory of god ps. . . to denominate them gods servants psa. . . nebucad-nezar had enough to denominate him gods servant ier . . as mr. t. truly tells him , but not enough to denominate him christs disciple . yea i appeal to mr. ba. own conscience , whether at that time , when christ exercised his ministry among the iews , the whole nation of the iews as well as those he mentions out of levit. . . and in the self same sense with those , were not , iure redemptionis by right of his redemption of them from egypt , the servants of god , had relatively a peculiar people to himself , yet how few of them were christs disciples viz. those onely that attended to his law , in which respect though he stile all israel his servants , yet he distinguishes those few onely from the rest that harkned not to his law , by the denomination of his disciples isaiah . . and whereas he saies of infants may they not be called gods servants from the meer interest of dominion that god hath to them ? p. . i answer , who doubts of that ? but may they thereupon be called disciples , and be baptized ? if so then from the meer interest of dominion that god hath to all men , all men may be called gods servants , as well as they , and so consequently be baptized as christs disciples . he tells us further p. . that infants are capable of being subjects of christs kingdome , taking kingdome not in the larger sense , as it contains all the world , nor in the strictest as it containeth onely his elect , but in a middle sense as it conteins the visible church , therefore consequently capable of being christs disciples , and of baptizing ; and to prove the antecedent viz. that they are subjects of christs kindome i. e. members of the visible church , he uses this medium , they are capable of being subjects in any kingdome on earth , and therefore why not of christs kingdome saith he i. e. of the visible church of christ ? now if this be a good consequence , they are capable to be subjects in any kingdom on earth and therefore to be subjects of christs kingdom i. e. his church , then the infants of heathens as well as these , being capable to be subjects in any kingdom on earth , are consequently as capable to be subjects of christs kingdom and church , and consequently to be christs disciples , and in their infancy to be baptized , but mr. baxter himself will say non sequitur unto this . he tells us further that christ would have some infants i. e. believers infants , for those he meanes , to be received as disciples , therefore some infants i. e. such are his disciples . to prove the antecedent he jumbles together a number of places out of mat. mark and luke viz. mat. . . the . . mark. . . luke . . . in one of which places because christ saies of a child , who so shall receive this child in my name receiveth me , by comparing this place with the rest , where christ saies to his disciples , and of them also , not of infants , whoso shall give to you a cup of water in my name , because you belong to christ , or as matthew hath it in the name of a disciple , he shall not loose his reward , he gathers that some i. e. believers infants are disciples , and to be received to baptism , as such , for saith he , in christs name , and as christs disciple , and as belonging to christ are all one in christs language . to which i answer , first , by denying that in christs name , and as a disciple , and as belonging to christ are all one : for in christs name is a term of larger extent and latitude then the rest , so that we may be said to do good in christs name to some persons , whom yet we cannot do good to as belonging to him in that neer relation of his disciples : in the name of christ , besides severall other significations , which the phrase hath , is as much sometimes as for christs sake , who requires it , and to do good to others in the name of christ is to do good to them for christs sake , and then we may be said to do good for his sake , not onely when we do good to them that are disciples of christ , upon that account of their belonging to him as his , but also , when we do good to them that are none of his disciples , upon the meer account of his command , who injoines all persons as occasion is to do good to all , though especially to the houshold of faith : whereupon also i perswade my self verily , nor is it very unworthy of observation , that the spirit when it speaks of doing good to profest disciples indeed mar. . . he incourages to receive them , not onely in the name i. e. for the sake of christ so requiring , but as belonging to him also as his disciples , in the name of a prophet , in the name of a righteous man , in the name of a disciple ; but when he speaks of our doing good to that child luke . . he saies no more then barely in the name of christ i. e. for the sake of christ owning such an action , but expresses not the other notion , and account of discipleship , and relation to him , as that on which he would have him to be received . moreover were it otherwise , it would make little to the purpose of mr. ba. who brings it to prove some such sucking infants as men sprinkle , i. e. believers babes to be disciples , sith that it was a believers child of which christ there speaks , or that he speaks of such children rather then of the children of other men , is much more then mr. ba. can ever clear , and that it was a child of such a stature as to come to christ , when he cald him , and therefore no infant of a span long , nor such as is the subject of your sprinkling , is too clear for mr. ba. to gainsay , without clear contradiction of the scripture mat. . . these are far fetcht faddles , whereby mr. ba. backs his people in the blind belief of his fond and false opinion that all believers infants are christs disciples , and thereupon to be baptized . the mediums whereby he manifests their membership in the gospel-church are many , more then a good many , and not more many then manifestly weak , and utterly unavailable to such a purpose . rantist . many more then ever will be answered easily by you or any other that set so light by them as you do . baptist. that may possibly be too , for i think no wise body will immittere pecus in pratum vbi non est sepes busie himself beyond measure in such a boundlesse prate , and piece of sillogization about infant membership as it is , nor be so extravagant from mr. bs. own advice , who p. . tells us that we shall never be able to justifie it , if we lay out but the thousandth part of our time , study , talk , or zeal ( yet if he have not spent the twenteth part of his own , i am must mistaken ) upon this question it self , either for or against it , as to lose a moiety of his time in replying distinctly to such a mint of impertinencies as are handled at armes end here by mr. ba. for my own part i am not minded to tire my self to much with tracing at large after every new hare that starts in my way , nor to stand dancing the hay after mr , ba. into every corner of that laborinth of logick , into which he leads me , and yet leaves me after view and review as little ground for infant baptism as if he had said nothing at all : nor shall i bury my self up from better imployment in the bottomlesse pit of those absurdities , which this part of his book also is fully fraught with , partly because i find that most that he saies there is in effect answered already in the book called anti-babism , where the genuine sense of the main scriptures he rests into his own use , is given out viz. rom. . . cor. . mar. . . rom. . . mal. . . partly also because i perceive a vain of particular contest with mr. t. to run thorow the whole , which mr. t. according to the particular interest he hath therein , hath already taken notice of in print , so far as its worth an answer , partly also because i am not so happy as to have the patience of many , scarce of any of the churches of christ , whose servant i am , suffering me hitherto , without such frequent avocations of me from this to services of another nature abroad , as are inconsistent with my writing of much more at home . neverthelesse besides some animadversion of as much of its absurdity as may be with conveniency , i shall take the sting out so clearly that it shall not hurt , and that by both a clear , though general disproof of it all , and as clear though generall and brief demonstration of the contrary , take notice therefore of the most cardinal argument , upon which he grounds infant church-membership under the gospel . it was so once that infants were of the church , and it is not repealed , therefore it is so now . to which i answer , by granting t was so from abrahams time , and downward to christ ( for before that time all the pa●●s he takes doth not , and all the braines he hath in his head cannot produce the least sollid proof of such a thing ) for all that church and the materials of it were a ceremony and a type , and never the viler for that , as mr. ba. foolishly fancies p. . of the church under christ , t was so in that outward typicall covenant that god made concerning an earthly canaan with the natural seed of abraham in the loines of isaac and iacob , not ismael , gen. . . . nor any of his seed by keturah , gen. . . . upon the performance of certain carnal ordinances as circumcision , and the rest of the ordinances of divine service pertaining to that covenant , which circumcision bound them to till the time of reformation heb. . but that therefore t is so now in the church under the gospel-covenant , that was typified by the other , i utterly deny , whose heavenly inheritance and spirituall seed of abraham , i. e. believers born of god by faith in christ , answer as he anti-type to that earthly canaan , and fleshly seed of abraham , and before which the type is fled away , for all the ceremonialls of that law are vanisht , among which this admitting of fleshly babes was one , and what it pointed at is shewed abundantly in anti-babism , which may serve as an answer also to his fourteenth argument , for their present membership , where if the law of infant-church-membership were ceremonial , he bids us shew what it tip●fi●d : ●he membership therefore of infants , which belonged onely to that particular church of the jewes , which was also the whole universal visible church that god then had upon earth , unlesse we shall dream with mr. baxter of more particular visible churches then that of the jewes during its standing , different from it in form , order and constitution , which together with that made up some one universal visible of which infants were members first , as he dotes , and then secondarily of that particular ; which conceit of his concerning such a universal visible , is a meer invisible chimaera , for who ever saw any visible church , or people whom god visibly inchurched , and gave his oracles to besides israel ? of whom it is said god dealt ●n that particular , as he did not with any other nations , suffering all others to walk after their own waies act. . . nor can there be now any universall visible church , but what is made up of the particular visible churches , so that a person must first be a member of some particular congregation , before he can be of that universal : the membership i say of infants that belonged to that church onely , which was to be national , and tipical of that true holy nation i. e. all the saints , where ever scattered , is now repealed , nor can any of that mr. ba. syllogizes to us evince the contrary . he tells us that if it be repealed then either in justice , or mercy to infants , but it is in neither saith he p. . ergo. he falls a proving the minor , but with his leave i shall make bold to deny the major , it was neither better nor worse as to the whole spe●ies of infants , it was severity to unbelieving jewes , goodnesse to believing gentiles , but t was not done with any such special respect to infants in their nonage , as that if it had stood the whole species of infants through the world would have been much the better , for such a meer titular thing as membership , in the church , unlesse that membership would ipso facto have more intitled them to heaven , nor now it s taken away are sucking infants ere the worse , for saying the great dignity that you deem to ly in the bare title of being a member of the visible church , whether they dy before your adm●ssion of them , or just after , if in infancy , their salvation is for that neither more nor lesse , and if they live to years as they are then are no longer infants , and no neerer heaven for their being baptized , when they were infants , unlesse they repent and believe the gospell , so repenting and believing it , they are as capable then of heaven , though they were not , as if they had been baptized , and in bare church-membership from the womb : this therefore is petty reasoning indeed as mr. t. calls it see mr. ba. . his second , third , fourth , fifth , six arguments are all out of rom. . which place , as i have declared my sense of it before , so i testifie again is so clear against the standing of infants as members in the family of abraham , or church of god now under the gospel , that he is as blind as a beetle , that sees any thing in it tending to the proof of it , for it seems plainly that the natural branches , or seed of abraham , isaac , and iacob themselves , that stood the children of the church before without faith , upon the meer account of being their naturall branches , cannor stand children of the church now , unlesse they be also spiritual branches , as abraham , isaac , and iacob were ; yea if being the fleshly seed of a believer could ingraft persons into the gospel church , as it did of old into the jewish church without faith , then the jewes to this day , being asmuch believing abrahams natural seed as ever , might by that birth stand members as truly , as any g●ntile believers seed , but they cannot , yea the same persons that were members of that church without filth , were not admitted to passe from that church to membership in this , for want of faith ; but when very forraigners , that had no relation to , nor descent from abraham , became his children in the gosspel sense , and members of the gospel church by personal faith , the very naturall seed of abraham was cut off through unbelief , so that the standing before was by a fleshly birth of abraham , or some believing proselited gentile , but the standing now in the church is not by a birth natural of any parent , no not of abraham himself , unlesse ●here be faith in the persons themselves , as mr. baxter believes not there is in any infants , for to the confutation of the ashford pamphlet , which pleads infant-faith , mr. baxter p. . makes the very essence of faith to lie in assenting to it that christ is king and saviour , and consenting that he be so to us and whether infants do thus both assent and consent let mr. ba. be judge of it if he please . because of unbelief the natural seed were broken off , thence mr. bax. argues that infants stand still in the church , but thence i argue they cannot stand , because those that stand now stand by faith ver . . i , e. personal , not parental ; thou standest ( saith paul ) by faith , i. e thy faith , not thy fathers , for then we may as well say the just shall live by his fathers faith , not by fleshly descent , though of abraham , isaac and iacob themselves , as of old they did , and infants cannot stand by faith unlesse they had it , and therefore not at all . mr. baxter argues it was the jewes own olive tree or church they were cut off from for unbelief , therefore infants stand in it still , but thence i argue that our infants cannot stand therein , for if god spared not the naturall branches of abraham , but broke them off their own root , their own father abraham and his family , so as to be counted no longer his children , their own olive tree the church so as to abide no longer in it , because they believed not , the terms of standing church-members being now no fleshly descent but faith , then much lesse will he admit any gentiles , that are not naturall branches of abraham , to be grafted into the good olive tree without faith , and therefore no infants that believe not . mr ba. tells us that some branches only were broken off , therfore not infants , it is true all were not broken off , and why ? because some believed , and so abode in the family , others and those the most believe not when they should , others and those all infants nor believed , nor yet could , and therefore could not abide , nor have a visible being , a visible membership , a visible standing in that visible church , the termes of standing in which is only and alone by faith . mr. bax. argues that israel shall again be grafted into their own olive tree , and saved , even the children with the parents , and therefore infant-membership in the gospel church is not repealed ▪ i answer it is true that if they abide not still in unbelief ; they shall be grafted into their own olive tree , the visible church , and family of abraham , that is so many as shall believe onely , this infants do not , but whether they believe or believe not , when the redeemer , i. e. christ jesus shall come , all israel shall be saved , and be owned , and made the most glorious people upon earth , and enter into a flourishing state indeed , but not in this way of baptism , and membership , mr. baxter speaks of , who i perceive is not a little ignorant of this mystery as yet , how long blindnesse shall happen unto israel , and in what manner their calling shall be , of which i also have at this time as little list , as leasure to inform him . mr. ba. argues from the samenesse of the olive tree the jew was broken off from , and the gentile was grafted into , that therefore as infants stood members then , so they must now . i answer it is true there is some kind of indentity between the jewish , and the gospel church , but not such as concludes an indentity of membership for infants , they are the same ingenere visiblis ecclesiae , they agree in the common name of church , and visible church , elected and segregated from the world , but there 's little else that i know of wherin they are the same , they differ in circumstantials , in their accidental forms , in their officers , ordinances , customs , constitutions , subjects , members , that being constituted of one whole nation of people , or fleshly seed of abraham , taken out from all other nations , this of a spiritual seed of abraham , i. e. believers scaterred here and there , taken out of any nation as they happen to be called , almost every nation some , the ceremony of inchurching abrahams own , much more any other mans meer fleshly seed being ceased . mr. bax. peddles on apace , and brings a company of scripures in proof of infants church-membership and baptism , which though he stile them , as indeed his whole book , plain scripture proofs for those two , yet a man that is not minded to force the scripture into the service of his own fancy , because it does not serve it freely , may look till dooms day before he see in them any plain , perspicuous proof of either one of these or of the other . christ saith he mat. . , would have gathered ierusalem oft , as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings but they would not , therefore sure he would not have put them , or their infants out of the church , the strength of the consequence lies here , saith he , he would have gathered whole ierusalem , and that into the visible gospel church , therefore infants also ; now that christ does not speak of whole ierusalem here , as he saith he does , both men and infants , the circumstances of the text do fully evince to us , for he speaks of the same persons he speaks to , and the same persons he complains of , saying ye would not , the same and no other are they to whom he speaks , when he saies ▪ oh ierusalem how often would i have gathered &c. but those were men and women only , whom he called to believed in him , and not infants . again he gathered them by preaching of the word into baptism , and membership , and received all that came , and no more viz. sometimes the children and not the parents , sometimes the parents and not the children , so that a mans foes for the truths sake sometimes were they of his own family , his own flesh , therefore he offered not to gather infants , for he preacht not to them , nor called them at all , nor were any more baptized and added to the church-fellowship in the gospel , then they that gladly received the word , that did not infants , yea were gathered into the first gospel church by preaching and baptism in one day , and never an infant among them all , for they surely did not continue in fellowship , in breaking of bread and prayers acts . therefore whereas mr. ba. in his epistle to the parish of bewdley challenges mr. t. to name him one particular church since adam either of jewes or gentiles , where infants were not church-members , if they had any infants , till years ago ; i name him the first gospel church that ever was act. . in which there was not one infant ; yea there was three thousand baptized in one day , and it is a hazard but that those three thousand had many , perhaps no lesse than three thousand infants belonging to them all , and yet as mr. cotton thinkes , so think i , that none of their infants were baptized with them , much lesse were added with them to the church , or continued with them in fellowship , as the whole gospel church did , in breaking of bread and prayers ; yea though there was no infants in that church , which was gathered at ierusalem it self , to which christ saies how oft would i have gathered thy children , &c. and therefore mr. baxs . sense is very sinister , so i challenge him again to shew me , not by such dubious , muddy , cloudy , circumlocutory , inconsequential consequences as he doth , but undeniable evidences any one of all the gospel churches of the primitive times , either of jewes or gentiles , which we are all to re●orm by viz. ierusalem , rome , corinth , galatia , philippi , ephesus , thessalonica , or any other to fellowship in which there was one infant baptized , added and admitted , and i shall cry him mercy , and lay down the cudgells at his feet , and acknowledge he hath broke my pate . the next scripture he uses is more impertinent then this , yet mr. ba. makes a certain shift to squeese an argument out of it , and to compel it invita minervâ not a little against its own intent , and meaning to corroborate his crooked crazie creed concerning the inchurching and cristening of infants viz. rev. . . whence he thus syllogizes , if the kingdoms of this world either are or shall be the kingdomes of the lord , and of his christ , then infants also must be members of his kingdom i. e. the visible church , the antecedent is the words of the text indeed , as he saies , but the sequel is so sure , and follows so firmly in his fancy , that he saies nothing can be said against it , that is sense or reason : but indeed it self is against both sense and reason . who would ever think , if the word did not declare that the things of wisdome are hid from the wise and prudent , that such a disputer as mr. ba. holds himself to be , should deduce the now membership of infants , from such a premise as this viz. because the kingdomes of this world are , or else shall be the kindomes of god and christ ? what 's this i trow toward the eviction of the other ? much every way saith mr. ba. yea so much , that for any thing he can see this text alone were sufficient to decide the whole controversie whether infants must be church members , amen so beit say i , let this scripture decide it , and let 's see what mr. ba. saies on t . if they can say , quoth he , by kingdoms is meant here some part of the kingdom , excluding all infants , such men may make their own creed on those termes , let the scripture say what it will , i know in some places the word kingdome , and ierusalem &c. is taken for a part , but if we must take words alwayes improperly , because they are taken so sometimes saith he , then we shall not know how to understand any scripture , so of necessity it must be understood properly i. e in its prime signification of the whole kingdoms , and whole ierusalem with him , and not improperly for a part onely , though mr. blake to mr. black. saith upon occasion of our pleading for the proper signification of baptize , nothing more ordinary then to have words used out of their prime signification , whereby we may see how these men wil needs have that signification that best serves their turnes , whether proper or improper , when the proper most fits them , then the improper cannot be meant there , when the proper makes against them , the improper is pleaded for as none more usual then that , thus the word houshold must include infants , when baptism is spoken of , but when the passover is spoken of then infants are excluded , because else we shall argue from thence to their eating the supper , as they from circumcision unto their baptism , but this by the way that it may be noted how the men will have things their own way , by hook or by crook , not that i deny the word kingdomes to be taken properly for all the whole kingdome here , yea i grant it , but let us see what of that ? why even this , if the whole kingdom be the lords , then infants must unavoidably be members of christs church , and if we ask how comes this about ? he will tell you two wayes , first , as infants are all of the kingdomes of this world , taken for the whole kingdom , secondly , as by the word kingdom of christ is meant christs church . now let us spell and put all together , and it is thus much , first , by kingdomes of this world is here meant the whole kingdome of this world , or kingdome taken universally , not for some part of it onely . secondly , by kingdomes of the lord and his christ is here meant christs church onely . thirdly , infants are a part of the kingdomes of this world , and so consequently of christs church , for the kingdomes of this world are become the kingdomes of the lord and his christ i. e. christs church , oh brave and plain scripture proof for infant church-membership and baptism . let us examine what is true and what is false in this . first , as above , i grant that here the kingdomes of this world signifie the whole kingdome , as he pleads it , but that here the kingdome of the lord and his christ signifies christs church , i utterly deny it , and am amazed that a reasonable man should affirm it , and so consequently i deny that it appears from this place that infants are now members of christs church . but he brings reason for it , such as t is , and that shall be a little examined . first , if they say saith he that the kindome of christ is not here meant christs church , they speak against the constant phrase of scripture , which calls christs kingdome his church , et conversim , christ is king and saviour of the same society , what is christs kingdom but his church ? to which i answer , christs kingdome is the whole world as well as his church . and secondly that he is king and saviour of all men in some sense as well as of that same society . and thirdly , that it is not against the constant phrase of scripture to say by christs kingdome here is not meant his church , for though it is true by his kingdome is sometimes exprest his church , et retro by his church is meant his kingdome in a special and restrictive sense , yet not constantly , there being many places where the word kingdome of christ is taken in a larger sense , as signifying not the church , but the whole world o bad . the kingdome i. e. monarchy of the whole earth shall be the lords i. e. christs so dan. . the kingdome i. e. dominion , monarchy and greatness of the kingdome under the whole heaven is given to the son of man , and the saints , yea his kingdom is over all , he shall rule the nations , govern and judge the whole world in righteousnesse ; oh saith mr. ba. the kingdome of christ is more large , and more speciall ; but here it cannot be meant of his kingdom in the larger sense , nor as he ruleth common societies , and things for so saith he the kingdomes of this world were ever the lords and his christs , and it could not be said that they are now become so . to which i answer , first , that in granting what he here does , that christs kingdome is taken sometimes in a larger sense , then for the church , he contradicts himself above , where he saies it is the constant phrase of scripture to call christs kingdome his church , and what is christs kingdome but his church ? secondly , whereas he saies the kingdomes of this world were ever the lords and his christs in the larger sense , as taken for his government and rule , i grant de jure christ hath been lord of the whole earth a long time , but de facto he is not king , so as actually to reign over the whole earth , as ere long he shall do i. e. at his appearing tim. . . to this very day , but in that indeed i. e. when he comes he shall be king , monarch over all the earth , and rule with a rod of iron over the nations , and judge the world in righteousnesse together with his saints , who hath been judged in unrighteousnesse by the nations and rulers hitherto zach. . dan. . act. . p . rev. . then he shall be in point of execution , as before by commission , and really , and actually , as now intentionally king of kings , and lord of lords rev. . but till then , as yet a little while , and his kingdome comes to his hand , and the kingdomes of the world do thus become his , for the work of recovery of his right is now very hot in fieri , and will not be long before it be in facto esse , till then he hath been an underling , and other lords besides him have had dominion over him in his , and also over the whole earth , which is his , and over the kingdomes of this world , which de jure are his , but specially that servus servorum , dominus dominorum the pope and ccclergy , that are the whore that hath reigned in three divisions over the earth , between whom and christ the great justle now is in all christendome , whether he or they , that by permission have had it so long from christ , who onely hath the commission for it , shall be king of kings and lord of lords , hitherto christ hath reigned in the world as charles the second hath reigned in england , and no otherwise i. e. hath reigned in the hearts of a few of his friends and followers . but i perceive the gospel or good news of the kingdome of christ coming , which is to be preached more had more before the end , is yet a riddle to mr. ba. and though i hope it will be , if seeing he will see , yet t is not yet given him to know the mystery and manner of christs kindome . thirdly , whereas he saies that the kingdom taken in the larger sense i. e. for the world cannot be meant here , but the church onely by this phrase the kingdomes of the lord and his christ , i strongly assert that of all places in scripture the word kingdomes of christ cannot here be construed for the church , that the church cannot be meant in that phrase , but the kingdomes in the largest sense i. e. the whole world , and directly oppositly to mr. ba. who saies it is the church , i disprove his opinion thus , first , if by the kingdomes of christ be meant the church , then it must be thus read , viz. the kingdomes of this world are become christs church , but what an absurdity must that be , specially with mr. bax. above all men , who so strenuously contends that by the word kingdoms of this world is meant not in part only , but the whole kingdom ? for to hold that by that phrase the kingdomes of this world is meant all the kingdomes upon the earth , taken wholly , and not synechdochically for a part of those kingdomes onely , and that by the kingdom of christ the church onely , is to make the sense thus , viz. the whole world is become christs church , therefore it cannot be so , but thus ( and so all the circumstances of the text do evince , for it is spoken of christs raign over all the world in the latter daies , after the seventh trumpet hath sounded , and not over all his church onely , and of christs taking to himself ver . . that great monarchy , power , kingdome , or greatnesse and glory of his reign , which before he permitted to be in the hands of the dragon , beast and whore , so that they reigned over the whole earth , and the saints too in rigour , and unrighteousnesse rev. . rev. . ult . i say it must be thus viz. the kingdomes of this world , the kingdomes under the whole heaven , the monarchy of the whole earth is now come into christs own hands , or the government over all is now actually on his shoulders . besides what will mr. bax. gain more by his sense of that scripture towards the proof of his infant-membership then i for the membership of heathen infants , then for the church membership of the whole world , if i were minded to plead for it , if the kingdomes of this world wholly taken , none excluded , do become the church of christ then all men as well as infants must be church-members on that account . besides he speaks as de futuro what shall be under the seventh trumpet , therefore if it were to be taken as mr. bax. imagines that the kingdomes of this world , infants as well as men , are now become christs church , then it would evince that it was not so from the beginning of the gospel church , for what effects are spoken of as falling out now newly under the seventh trumoet , are things that never were in being before . besides observe mr. baxter how he pleads to have kingdomes taken in the largest sense in the former part of the verse , and how angry he is if it be taken for lesser then all the whole kingdomes of the world , but in the latter part where kingdomes must needs be , and is as largely to be taken ( for it is the kingdomes of the world are become christs kingdomes , i. e. dominion , not christs churches ) there he will needs lace it up into the narrowest acceptation that the word kingdom can possibly bear . oh therefore the grosse pieces of ignorance , that are in that argument of his for infants membership in the church , which he grounds from a scripture , that will as well prove all the world to be gospel church-members as believers infants , if his very own false sense of it should be admitted , but in truth proves not the one nor the other ; thus he argues viz. the kingdoms of this world , i. e. all , and all in them shall become christs kingdomes , therefore infants of only believers , not heathens , are church-members under the gospel . he that saies this followes any better then the pope follows peter in the holy chaire shall never be counted , or voted mentis compos , whilest i am compos voti . mr. bax. therefore had better have found shillings , where he never looked for it , then have looked for infant-membership in this scripture , where he will never find it with his eyes open . his three next arguments , viz. the ninth , tenth , and eleventh run all upon one strain , and therefore as he need not have made more then one of them , so i need not make more then one answer to them all , yea , i need make none at all , having spoken to that point sufficiently before , yet a hint of it here may do no hurt . they stand all upon one bottome , viz. the meliority of the times under the gospel above the times of the law , of this new covenant above the old , the summe of what he saies is this , if believers infants may not now be members of the visible church , then both jewes and gentiles are in a worse condition now then before christ , and christ is come to be a destroyer , and not a saviour , and to do hurt to all the world , the believing jewes , and the church ; yea and the very gentiles thereby , in regard of the happinesse of their children , are in a worse condition then of old , but this is a vile doctrine , saith he , for jesus is a mediator of a better covenant established on better promises heb. . . where sin abounded grace much more abounded , rom. . , . . and the love of christ love hath height , length , depth , breadth , and passeth knowledge ephes. . to which simple inconsequent conceits i answer by denying the consequence , it followes not that the world is in worse estate under christ then before , because infants might be members of the jewish church , but not now of any visible church of the gospel , nay verily the world is in a far better condition then formerly , by how much they are under more clear , and plain promulgations , more fa●re and universal tenders of salvation , then in the narrow or shadowy dispensation of the law , and also under greater love , richer grace , better and more glorious promises , unlesse they fall short of them , through their own unbelief , then those which were made to the natural israelites onely , all whose glory was but a type of the other , for the great favor , love and promises of god to them , as meerly abraham , isaac and iacobs natural seed , unlesse they also believed , and then they , as now all the world might be heirs with abraham of the grace and promises of the gospel , did make them heirs of that earthly canaan onely : but the gospel grace makes all men heirs on termes of faith and obedience to christ , of the glory of the heavenly canaan for ever , the grace of god that bringeth salvation unto all men now appears : and as for infants , albeit no infants now be baptized into fellowship with the visible church , nor are priviledged as the jewes infants once were with interest in the blessing of an outward earthly canaan , nor yet vouchsafed that meerly titular account , of sanctifyed and peculiar people of god , as in opposition to other infants , as by birth , accountatively sinners , common and unclean , which distinction of a birth holiness and uncleaness mr. baxter had he but half an eye in his head might clearly see acts . . is so taken out of the world and ended in christ , that now no man however born , no not a gentile may be called in that sense as the gentiles were of old in reference to the jewes , either common or unclean , and if no man can be called by birth common or unclean in reference to other , then none may be called by birth holy in reference to other , for this birth holinesse and uncleannesse are such correlatives that the one cannot be supposed to be in the world without the other ; albeit i say no infants have now such standings in such external happines and salvation , yet they are in no les capacity to be saved then the jews children of old , & so neither their parents whoever they be , in any worse condition in regard of their comforts in their children , whether they dy infants , or live to years , then the godliest jewes were in regard of theirs , for either infants dy in infancy , or else do not , if any mans infants dy in such nonage as in which they never committed actual transgression , our ashford pamphlet tells us they have not deserved to be exempted from the generall state of little infants declared in scripture , viz. that of such is the kingdome of heaven , yea i wonder what should damn such dying infants , as never had iniquity of their own , sith god himself assures us that the son shall not dy i. e. eternally for the iniquity of his father , but every soul that dyes shall dy onely for his own iniquity , ezekiel . and no better hopes could be harboured of the godliest jewes infants then this , that dying infants they were not damned . but if any mans children , even his that is ungodly and prophane , do live to years , then if they believe and obey the gospel , the tender of which is to every creature , they may be saved though their parents be wicked , when iewes children not doing so , shall be damned , for all their father abrahams faith , and their own church-membership for a time , and that with so much the greater condemnation : whereas the●efore mr. ba. tells us such a story of a meliority of being in the visible church rather then out , i tell him it is not universally true , but as it may happen , for besides that children may aswell be prayed for , and instructed by their godly parents , remaining unbaptized , and non-members in their nonage , as if in infancy they be admitted to both , it may so fall out , and mostly it did among the iewes , that a lifting up to heaven in respect of participation of outward priviledges and ordinances , may prove an occasion unhappily through their abuse of it , of their sinking deeper into hell . his next argument is drawn from deut. , . . . a place that doth as well prove that all the wives and the servants , and the slaves , even all the hewers of wood and drawers of water are to be taken into covenant with god , as his , and admitted into church-membership upon the membership of masters , and husbands , as little ones upon the membership of the fathers ; and so indeed it was in those daies , wherein the whole body of the nation was inchurched together , though not so now , therefore though i might easily discover that ( yea he is blind that sees it not in the same chapter , notwithstanding it is alledged in that allusion of paul in the tenth chapter of the romans to that place ) to be no other then that covenant which was made with the nation in particular , which god brought out of aegypt , yet i shall trouble my self to say no more to it then so . his argument is from rom. . . where circumcision is said to be a seal of the righteousnesse of the faith which abraham had , is answer'd above , where i have given out the genuine sense of that place , and disproved that crooked construction , which is by others aswell as him commonly made of it , therefore i le say no more to it here . his argument is also answered , but a little above , where i have shew'd the inchurching of that fleshly seed to be ceremonial , and also what it typed out , therfore no more of that also in this place . his . plain scripture-lesse proof for infants present churchmembership and baptism is this viz. if all infants , who were members of any particular church , were also members of the vniversall visible church , then certainly the membership of infants , he means by vertue of the membership of their parents , is not repealed . but all infants who were &c. ergo. the consequence saith he is beyond dispute , because the universal church never ceaseth here , yea the whole argument so clear , that were there no more it is sufficient . to which as unanswerable as he judges it , i answer first by denying the consequence of his major , as most flatly false and inconsequent . secondly , by saying as mr. t. did , whose answer is both solid and sufficient viz. that infants membership in the universal visible church was only by reason of their then membership in that particular national church , neither can mr. ba. while he breathes prove them to have bin members of that universal visible , as he calls it , but as they were members of that , and therefore when that particular , nationall church of the jewes ceased , the standing of infants as members upon the meer account of their parents membership ceased also therewith , as one of the things that were not essentiall to a church , but circumstantial onely to that church , as one of the particular accidental ceremonies pertaining onely to that individual nationall church ; for accidental ceremonies mr. ba. himself confesses , and must confesse did cease still with that particular church , to which particularly they related , otherwise he will be paid home with his own weapon , and in his own coin , yea if mr. baxters consequence be true , and if it be not so as we say , that accidentall ceremonies , and so this accidental ceremony , and circumstance of infants being members upon the membership of their parents , did cease with that particular church of the iews , t will passe all the braines mr. ba. hath in his head to answer his own argument , if we retort it on him in proof of that which he denies , as much as we do the inchurching of infants upon the fathers membership viz. the inchurching of wives , and servants to this day upon the membership of their husbands and masters , for whereas he argues thus viz. if all infants who were members of any particular church were also members of the universal visible church , then certainly the membership of infants by vertue of their parents membership is not repealed , but all &c. ergo what answer will he make , if we answer him by arguing back upon him thus viz. if all wives and servants , who were members by vertue of their husbands and masters membership of any particular visible church , were also members of the universall visible church , then certainly the membership of wives and servants , hewers of wood , and drawers of water , by vertue of their husbands and masters membership , is not repealed , but all &c. ergo. i leave it to wise men to consider and examine whether mr. bs. argument doth not as fully tend to the proof of it that the wives and servants ought , as of old , to stand members in the visible church now , upon the husbands and masters membership , as infants upon the membership of their parents . several other palpable absurdities are obvious to every observant eye in his amplification of this argument , which whoever notes , will take heed of pinning his faith implicitly on mr. bs. sleeve , and of listning to his logick , so as to be led by it besides all sense and reason . to say nothing to his universall visible , which is little lesse then a visible bull , for sensus , adeoque visus est propriè solummodò singularium , intellectus universalium , the proper object of sense , and so of sight is particulars onely , and universalls onely properly of the understanding , yet this universal visible church is the universal vision , and dream of the universal clergy , but to bate them the baldnesse of that term , and grant that there is a catholike visible church , is there any unversal visible church , but what is existent in , and made up of all the particular visible churches ? i trow not : yea that was wont to be good logick , and theology too heretofore , to say that all the particulars make up the unversal , that the universall visible church , and all the particular visible churches are adaequate , and convertible , yea dr. featley p. . makes the universall visible church , and all the particular visible churches equivalent , the universal or formall church saith he i. e. all the assemblies of christians in the world : the whole is not broader then all its parts collectively taken , nor without its parts , for omne totum ex suis partibus constituitur , ordinatur , mensuratur , determinatur , every whole consists of its parts , is measured and determined by its parts , and so the whole universal visible church , and all the homogeneall parts of it simul sumtae i. e. all the particular visible churches taken together , are of equall latitude ; so that he that is of a any particular visible church must needs be of the who●e , and he that is of the whole universall visible must needs be of some particular visible church , yea cui adimuntur omnes partes totius universalis , eidem etiam totum universale adimi necesse est , whoever is not a part of some part or other i. e. of some particular visible church , cannot be a part of the whole i. e. the universal visible : this i say is the logick and theology , which was wont to passe for currant among your selves , but mr. ba. learnes men a new kind of logick viz. that all the parts put together are not so big as the whole , that the universall visible church is larger then all the particular visible churches in the world , of which yet it consists , so that there is room enough for a person to stand a member in the universal visible church , though he be of no particular visible church at all ; i ever understood yet that he , who is removed and cast out of all the particular visible churches of the saints , is consequently cast out of the universal visible church , but he tells me a tale that to be removed out of every particular visible church , is consistent still with a standing in the universal visible : so that excomunication out of all the particular visible churches in the world , is not excomunication out of the whole visible church with him . another thing worth noting , though worth nothing , is this , he tells us there that keturahs children , when they left the family of abraham , that they continued members of the universal visible church still , which compared with the clause above , where he tells us that it is a far higher priviledge to stand in the universal visible church then to stand in any particular whatsoever , amounts to thus much viz. that the midianites , for they were some of keturahs children , had far higher priviledges , then those that the israelites had by being members of that particular visible church of israel , which if it were so , then we may say what advantage hath the iew indeed , and what profit by circumcision , and by gods commission of his oracles unto them ? yea what necessity of circumcision of themselves , and their males at all for any strangers , or of joining themselves to that particular church of the jewes , sith they might have had as high priviledges if they had joined themselves to the seed of abraham by keturah , of whose posterity circumcision , nor the strict law it bound to was not required , and so consequently what need of baptism , if persons might be of the uniuersal visible , which is the greater , though not of the particular visible church of the iews , without circumcision and keeping the law ? but it is a question with mr. bax. whether keturahs children must leave their seed uncircumcisied p. . yet i tell him it is out of question , that unlesse it were in order to joining , and inchurching themselves with that individual church of of the iewes , to which pertained peculiarly the adoption , and glory , and covenants , and law , and promises , and which was all the visible church , that i know god had then upon the earth , circumcision was not enjoined to any other of abrahams own posterity , not the ishmalites , nor midianites , but those onely that came of sarah by isaac and iacob , for the covenant , of which circumcision was a sign , was establisht with none of them , but with isaac onely and with iacob , and his seed after him , and so many as should join themselves unto them . many more odd conceits about this universal visible church , mr. ba. broaches , but i spare him , and hasten to what followes . his . plain scripture-lesse proof for infants church-membership and baptism is from a clause in the second command●ment viz. i will shew mercy to s of them that love me , and keep my commandements , a phrase out of which a man may as easily prove the pope to be head of the church , as prove either of those points in proof of which he doth produce it . yet oh the miserable muddy , wretched , ragged , crooked , cloudy piece of disputation for infant baptism , which this man makes from that place ! for my part i mean not to wander after him in that wildernesse of worthlesse discourse , that he vents about mercy , church covenant , promises , nor am i so wise as to wot what he means , nor so foolish as to believe he knows well what he means himself by much of that he there utters , or else he would never say that wicked men in the church are within the covenant , and so have this mercy spoken of in the second commandement stated on them by promise ; as if wicked men in the church were in some special wise beloved of god , when yet they are more hateful to him by far then heathens . it is enough to serve my present purpose , that what proof mr. baxter pens in the head of this argumentation , his own pen dashes it all out again in the taile of it . for first after a great deal of wrestling to make the mercy here promised to thousands of them that love god , necessarily to include church-membership , he confesses at last that it lies doubtful in the text what mercy in particular is there meant , which if he do , then t is not necessary that church-membership be implied in it , for there may be much mercy , yea special , yea eternal saving mercy shewed to persons , to whom the mercy of membership in the visible church and baptism is not vouchsafed , or else what becomes of such infants , as notwithstanding your timely admittance , do yet dy without both membership and baptism ? are they shut out of the kingdom of heaven ? secondly , he confesses it is doubtfull in the text to how many generations god shewes mercy to the children of parents that love him , whether it be to the remote or neerest progeny onely ; and though he passe his judgement that it is onely to immediate children of godly parents , that the promise in the commandment is made , yet thereby he contradicts his own sense of the place , and overthrowes all that he contends for , in that if the words were as he would have them read , viz. i shew mercy to a thousand generations , or to the thousandth generation of them that love me , it were evident that he meant not the next generation only , for that to a thousand generation should signifie no more then one generation to come is most irrational , and plain brutish to imagine ; and if he say t is to a thousand generations , if such children succeed their parents in godlynesse , that sense excludes infants quite from the mercy here promised , and extends it to such children onely as are at years , and that on condition of being godly themselves , and on that condition of being godly themselves god shewes mercy to the immediate seed of the very wickedest parents , as well as of the godliest parents in the world . but in very deed to put him out of all his doubts at once about this place , viz. whether god mean the remote or immediate children , i desire mr. baxter to consider that this promise is not made to any mans posterity at all , but only to all such individual persons as love him , and keep his commandements , for the words are not as he reads , and construes them , viz. i will shew mercy to a thousand generations of them , but to thousands of them that love me , i. e. to thousands of such people , such persons as love me and keep my commandments ; and so if the mercy were that of membership , yet it were nothing concerning infants in their infancy at all , but concerning thousands of such individual persons as love him and keep his commandments , or else god must shew mercy to all infants in their infancy to this day , meerly for their father noahs sake , though the immediate parents be wicked , and if he he do not he shewes not mercy to the thousandth generation of believers infants , there being not a thousand generations from noah to this day . we may see what little plain proof these men can find for their false way of inchurching and baptizing of infants in the new testament , in that they are faine to fetch it so far off as the old , thus doth not mr. ba. onely but others also as well as he , who would certainly never look for it so far behind as he second commanment , if they could easily find it neerer hand : among the rest this mindes me of one of more then ordinary note , viz. dr. channell of petworth in sussex , who ianuary the first . in a publique discourse with my unworthy self , being desired to assign some particular place of scripture , where christ commands the practise of infant-baptism , assigned the second commandment , to whom as i said then before hundreds of people , so i testify here again before the whole world , that if any man see infants baptism commanded in the second commandment it is because his eyes are out : for though he tell me that the generall scope of the second commandment is to command all gods people to observe all gods institutions from time to time , yet i tell him again , as also i did then , that infant baptism is none of those institutions , yea i tell him yet further , and mr. bax. also , that unlesse it can be made appear by plainer scripture proofs then ever were yet brought by either of them , that christ jesus injoined the baptizing and inchurching of infants , or that its any other then a tradition of man , and an addition to the gospel , which was not so from the beginning , and that is more then either of them will ever make plainly to appear , the second commandement doth rather forbid them both , yea ( ah si fas dicere ! sed fas ) the second commandement , the general scope of which , as their own selves expound it , is to prohibit all will worship and superstition , all serving of god after our own invention , all customes , devices , innovations , traditions of men , all addi●ion to and alterations of christs will and testament , all teaching other doctrine then is contained in the word , doth forbid , it , and therefore as haled in by head and shoulders to serve the turn of these men , and to help to uphold them in their rantizing of infants into the same visible body with them , whom yet they deny to drink with them into the same spirit , as all that are baptized into the same body are to do cor. . which infellowshipping persons by the halves into gospel participation , if it be of christ , what else is of man i plainly know not . his plain scripture-lesse proof for infants church-membership and baptism is drawn from psalm . . . where it is said that the seed of the righteous are blessed , whence he argues as before , and therefore need not have made a distinct argument of this , if god have pronounced the seed of the righteous blessed , then certainly they are members of his visible church , its absurd once to imagine quoth he , that god should pronounce a society blessed , and take them for none of his visible church . but i am ashamed of such trifling stuff , such straw , and stubble as he here builds upon , as if god himself can no way be said to blesse the seed of the righteous , unlesse he require them to be baptized , and inchurched visibly in their infancy , as if god had but one blessing , even that of baptism and church-membership , upon which all other blessings are so eternally intailed , even to infants , that such of them as attain not to an actual inrerest in these are ipso facto accursed in all respects else & that for ever , wheras to say nothing how that phrase the seed of the righteous may be taken for the race of righteous ones , that succeed one another in righteousnesse , as well as a seed of evil doers is. . . for the whole race of evill doers , that succeed their fore-fathers in evil doing , for these indeed i take to be the seed to which the scripture oft pronounces blessing and cursing , and not alwayes the meer natural seed of good men and bad , for then there is manifest falsehood in many promises and threats , the natural seed of righteous men often perishing , and being not counted their own fathers children , unlesse they be like them in righteousnesse as iohn . . christ denies abrahams natural children to be abrahams children , and blessed with him , because they did not as abraham did , and contrary wise the natural seed of the wicked prospering , when they do well , contrary to prov. . . . is. . . ps. . if the word seed were there taken for the natural seed , where it is said the seed of evill doers shall never be renowned ; and so the seed of the serpent , and the children of the devil expresses those that do his works , to say nothing i say of this , which yet is enough to blunt the edge of mr. bas. argument , grant the word seed here to be taken for the natural seed of the righteous , even those in infancy may be many wayes blessed though they neither be baptized in infancy nor inchurched , yea they may be blessed with eternal salvation , dying in infancy , without either baptism or membership in the visible church , for i hope you will not say those s . of jewes and belieuers infants , that have died before circumcision , baptism , and visible admission , are damned without any more ado , because they fell short of your admired membership , and if these be blessed with salvation to whom you delay baptism , why not those to whom we deny it ? doth our denying baptism to an infant before he dies send him to hell sooner then your delaying it till he be dead ? but however the seed of the righteous may be blessed with many temporal blessings , as provision , fruitfulnesse , multiplication , and yet not be taken into the visible church , and to say the truth if mr. ba. had not been resolved to wrest this scripture besides its true sense , to botch up his proofs into a multitude , he might easily have seen by consultation with the verse before that it is not such a thing as membership , that is here meant by the word blessed , but meer matter of outward sustentation ; i never saw the righteous forsaken , nor his seed begging bread ; he is ever merciful and lendeth and his seed is blessed i. e. provided for , and preserved from beggery , and considered by others in time of adversity , as he considered others in the like case . and lastly , whereas he challenges us to shew where ever god pronounced any blessed , and yet took them for none of his visible church ? saying t is absurd once to imagine it that he did , i assert it is most absurd in him to imagine the contrary , for god himself by promise pronounced ishmael blessed , saying as for ishmael behold i haved blessed him , and i will make him fruitful , and multiply him exceedingly , and make him a nation , because he is thy seed : and this at the very same time when he denied to establish the covenant with him , which he establisht with isaac , and commanded that he should be cast out of abrahams family from sharing with isaac in that very covenant , which mr. baxter contends with all his might p. . that whoever are not in it are not under the promise of the mercy , which church-membership is with him a speciall part of . in proof of this consider and compare gen. . . . . . with gen. . . . . . as if there were no blessing but that of church-membership , or at least no blessing without this of church-membership , whereas , as admired a mercy as this meer membership is with mr. baxter , persons may be blessed without it , and also ( witnesse the jewish nation , which for the most part were reprobates ) they may have admission to the meer mercy , and bare blessing of membership , and yet perish and be accursed for ever . the th . plain scripture-less proof for infant church-membership and baptism is this . if infants were church-members before circumcision was instituted , then certainly it was not proper to the iews , and consequently is not ceased , but infants are , therefore . the minor of which argument mr. baxter endeavours to prove aswell as he can , and this he doth , first , partly by perverting the sense of the text mal. . . where it is said god made two one i. e. instituted the ordinance of marriage between man and woman , that he might seek a seed of god i. e. a legitimate issue , for legitimacy onely in the issue is the result of marriage , and that among what parents soever , even heathens as well as others , for whom as well as others that state of marriage is sanctified , yet mr. baxter saies he made two one , or ordained marriage that he might seek a seed of god in another sense , that better serves his turn i. e. to seek church-members , as if church-membership in the seed , were the direct result of the state of matrimony in the parents , which every simpleton knowes to be false for marriage is honourable among all , and was ordained for all mankind as well as the godly , and yet the seed are not therefore church-members ; besides marriage was instituted in the state of innocency , to this end that mankind might be propagated in a more modest way then other creatures , and not that the seed so propagated might be church-members . secondly , partly by a heap of frivolous conjectures of his own , in which a man may warrantably enough chuse whether he will believe him or no , but whether his minor viz. that infants were church-members before circumcision was instituted be true or false it makes nothing to his purpose unlesse he had made surer work in his maior ; for that is so inconsequent , and utterly unsound that had i happened to have heard his argument before it came in print , i should have spared him all his paines about the minor , and have put him to the proof of his major , the consequence of which hee 'l never make good by fair play while he breathes ; for there were many things long before circumcision was instituted , which were proper , if not to the jewes till the jewes were in being , yet to the ceremoniall law that was after more clearly given to the jewes , and to that old testament of which moses was the mediator , and circumcision the sign , and the jewes the subject , and yet were tipicall and ceremonial onely , and so ceased together with circumcision , as the keeping the seventh day , the sacrifices , the cleannesse and uncleannesse of certain creatures , and ( if that were at all before circumcision , as mr. ba. does not plainly prove it to be ) among the rest the church-membership of infants . his . plain scripture-lesse proof is this . if god be not more prone to severity then to mercy , then he will admit of infants to be members of the visible church but god &c. therefore &c. oh the wit of this man how wonderfully doth it work , and wind to and fro , and wander far and neer to fetch in any manner of fewell , wherewith to feed that false faith men live in , concerning infant baptism , for fear it should be quite extinguished , and brought to nothing . ex nihilo nihil fit in an ordinary way , but such is the extraordinary eagerness of mr. ba. to have the game go his way , by either fair play or foul , that he is wise to extract something out of any thing , and any thing out of just nothing to his purpose : this that god is not more prone to severity then mercy , may serve , and that soundly to make against those that say god is willing to save but a few , and did peremptorily determine to damn personally an men to one before they were born , and that without reference to their soreseen rejection of his grace , but how it seems to make a jot against such as suppose the salvation of all dying infants , denying onely infants meer membership in meer gospell fellowship , i must professe my self too shallow to conceive , yea i am astonisht , saving that the word tells me the seers must be blinded for teaching gods fear after mens precepts , that the the ministers should buzze such a businesse abroad in print viz. that if infants be not now church-members , then god is more prone to severity then to mercy , and then back it so baldly too as mr. ba. does : it is evident thus saith he god hath cut off multitudes of wicked mens infants both from the church , and from life for the sins of their progenitors viz. dathan and abirams , achans , amalecks , the midianites , daniels accusers , the hittites , amorites , canaanites , perrezites , and jebusites , therefore if he should not admit of some infants of faithful men so much as to the visible church , then he should be more prone to severity then to mercy . i cannot but inwardly blush at mr. bas. blindnesse , as if god had no way whereby to vindicate the honour of his mercy , and clear himself from the censure of more severe then merciful , but one , that is by giving commission to us , which yet he no where gives us in any part of his will and testament , to baptize and inchurch some infants : as if he had no way to recover to his credit again to his most merciful name of the lord , mercifull , gracious , and slow to anger since his cutting off so many infants toge●her with their wicked parents by meer temporal death , and to make amends as it were for all the slaughters , that he made of innocent infants , with their rebellious fathers in the daies of the law , unlesse in liew thereof he grant some infants of faithful men to be members of his visible churches , and in visible fellowship with them in the daies and ages of the gospel . who sees not the weaknesse , the wretchednesse of this consequence ? yet so it is with mr. ba. that god is more prone to severity then mercy if he now admit no infants into the visible church under the gospel , except saith he , it be proved that god giveth them some greater mercy out of the church . to which exception of his i say thus . first , it need not be proved , and yet his consequence will prove false , for if the meer admitting of some faithful mens infants into the visible church will so make up the matter as to salve god from censure of pronesse to severity , rather then mercy , and magnifie his mercy so as to make it appear to be that he delights in more then judgement , notwithstanding his severity in slaying so many infants with the parents , then god magnfied his mercy in that kind of way sufficiently to make amends for that severity in the very time of the law it self , forasmuch as then he did admit for years together not onely some infants of faithfull men , but in all that time innumerable infants of unfaithful and wicked men ( for such were the jewes for the most part in their several generations and yet such infants your selves would not now have admitted ) to stand in the vrsible and national church of the jewes . and so there is no need of any admittance of infants now , in order to such an end as satisfaction for his severity to some infants of old , into visible fellowship with gospel churches . secondly , to satisfie him further it may easily be proved that god giveth infants , if they die in their infancy unbaptized and not inchurched ( for if they live to years they may be baptized all , and inchurched too , if they believe ) a greater mercy then that of meer church-membership here on earth , for they having never committed any actuall sins whereby to deserve exemption , charity teaches us to believe , and hope thus much saies the ashford pamphlet of all such , that of such is the kindom of heaven . one thing more i cannot but take notice of in this passage not in way of contradiction to mr. ba. but in way of discovery how contradictory unto him some of his brethren are , who mannage the same cause with him , that they may either close more hand somely together , or else excuse us if we believe none of them till they be agreed more among themselves , for whereas mr. baxter layes it down as the manner of old that when the parents sinned and broke gods covenant so as to deserve to be discovenanted thereupon , the children that had right to stand by the quondam membership of their parents , were wont to be discovenanted , dischurched , and sometimes destroyed with them ; i find the fornamed dr. channell of another mind , for when in a second publique discourse with him at petworth on ianuary . . i asserted his practise to be contradictory to his own judgement , forasmuch as his judgement was that believers infants onely were in covenant with god , and in right to church-membership and baptism , and yet his practise to baptize all or most of the infants in his parish , not one of many of whose parents he judged to be believers , as appeaed by his refusing communion with them for many years together in the supper , he gave answer to this purpose , viz. that the parent , i. e. believing ( or else the child hath no right secundum te o presbyter ) may sin himself out of covenant again , out of all communion in the church , and be damned , and yet the child stand still in right to baptism and membership which he had by the faith of those parents ; which as it thwarts the wonted way of discovenanting , dischurching of children with the parents , so it contradicts himself more another way , though he evade his first contradiction by it , to say that believing parents ( for such onely say your selves give right to their infants to be baptized ) may sinne themselves out of covenant , and be damned , for though as i then told him he preached it in saying thus , yet i am perswaded he holds no falling from grace . more things i take notice that that dr. and mr. bax. knock heads in , but i spare to do more then advise them to accord better with each other , but specially each of them with himself , or else as implicitly as men have believed them heretofore , they will try them ere long , and scarce trust them any longer . his plain scripture-lesse proof for infant churchmembership and baptism he drawes as he saies from deut. . . . . blessed shall they be in the fruit of their body that keep the covenant , and cursed in the fruit of their body● i. e. that break the covenant &c. he may well say he drawes it , for there 's no such thing as he draws flowes freely from that or any other scripture he produces , he drawes indeed , but at such a distance , that i see nothing followes from thence at all : he does not fall flatly upon it , nor deal down rightly with the text alledged , nor doth he interpret the blessing and cursing to be membership , and non-membership , so as to say that by blessed shall be the fruit of thy body is meant thus , i. e. thy infants shall be inchurched , and by cursed shall be the fruit of thy body thus , i. e. thy infants shall be dischurched , for that had been too palpably to pervert it , but he keeps a loof off from it , and doth not draw neer to the heart and center of it , but syllogizes in a circumference , and fetches it from far for fear , i think , least it should fly in his face . the argument that i fetch hence is this . that doctrine , which maketh the children of the faithfull to be in a worse condition , or as bad , then the curse deut. . maketh the children of covenant breakers to be in , is false doctrine . but the doctrine which denyeth the children of the faithfull to be visible churchmembers , doth make them to be in as bad or worse condition then is threatned by the curse deut. . therefore . the minor of which syllogism is most false , for infants may be both unbaptized and no visible church members , and yet be in a better condition then such as are under the curse , and the captivity threatned deut. . and so are all these to whom baptism and admittance into the visible church is delayed by yourselves , who in the church of england in old time were wont to defer the baptizing of all infants to two times in the year , viz. easter and whitsuntide , and so are all those also to whom we deny it , for both those to whom you delay it , and those to whom we deny it , dying in infancy without it , may be saved without it as well as if they had it . and at the same rates as they dispute them to be under cursing to whom we deny baptism , and visible church-membership , and our doctrine to be false that denies it , may we dispute those infants to be under cursing , to whom they delay baptism and visible membership , though but for a week during the time of their delaying it , and their doctrine to be false that delaies it , if we retort the same argument on themselves , which i shall do and leave it . that doctrine which makes the children of the faithful in as bad or worse condition then is threatned in that curse deut. . is false . but that doctrine which delaies baptism and visible church-membership to the infants of the faithfull till the tenth , twelfth , or twentyeth day of their age , till plumcake be made , maketh them during the time in which t is delayed in worse condition then is threatned in that curse , deuter. . ergo t is false . till then you have ingrafted your children into the church by baptism they are it seems with you in worse state then if they were in captivity , and all the poor innocent infants of those parents that are in england , to which your selves ( o presbyters ) deny baptism , unlesse the parent will confesse his faith before the bason , are in worse and more cursed condition then if they were in captivity . and if an indians infant should be born and bread up here in england , and be in never such a hopeful way of comming in time to the knowledge of the truth , yet all the time he remains unbaptiz'd , and not visibly added to your corrupt church of england , he is belike under a worse curse , and condition then if he were in slavery or captivity : i wonder where christ or his disciples ever preached such kind of gospel . his plain . scripture-lesse proof for infant-church membership and baptism runs upon this disjunction , viz. either they are in the visible church of christ or in the visible kingdome of the devil , for there is no third state , saith he , in which they are , but if they be not in christs visible church they are visibly out of it , and if they be visibly out of that visible church then they are visibly in satans kingdome . this is the summe and substance of what he laies down , and the basis upon which he builds a necessity of admitting the children of the faithfull into , and reckoning upon them as in the visible church of christ , or else we must ( saith he ) say they are in the visible kingdome of the devill ; which to say saith he is false doctrine ; the rest is but amplification and augmentation rather then argumentation of this position ; now howbeit a wise body that is not resolved to trouble himself , and fill the world with curious pryings , long proofs , and prolix prates about matters , which the wisdome of christ in the word of his testament , which was written to , for and concerning men and women , and not infants , is pleased to be silent in , would surely have sat down satisfyed with that sober saying , which mr. b. himself cotes out of mr. t. apol. p. . viz. that infants are neither in the kingdom ( i. e. visible church ) of christ , nor satan visibly till profession . for really so it is , and no otherwise properly , and quoad nos , who have no warrant to take cognizance of them as in either one or in the other visibly , but as at years they visibly appear to cleave to either , neither are these two , viz. the visible kingdome of satan , and the visible church of christ the adaequate dividing members of the whole world , but ( excepting infants ) of the adult ones in it only , which visibly obey either christ or satan ; neither doth satans visible kingdome consist of any infants visibly at all , but of such as visibly are acted by him , even the children of disobedience , in whom he works ephes. . . nor christs visible church of any infants visibly at all , save when some were inchurched and incovenanted as a type for a time , but of such onely as visibly obey him , these i say are visibly the subjects , servants , disciples and children of each rom. . his servants ye are , i. e. visibly , to whom i. e. visibly ye obey , whether &c. ioh. . . in this i. e. doing or not doing righteousnesse are manifest , i. e. visibly , the children of god , and of the devll so iohn . they are visibly of their father the devil , who do the works of their father i. e. in gospel account ; for else in the lawes account they , as abrahams seed , were then the churches children , howbeit i say any one that is not willing to be wise above what is written , and to have vision of more then is visible , would rest in this , yet sith mr. b. will put us positivly to prove a third state , denying that there 's any medium asserting that infants , if they be not in the visible church of christ in their infancy , are in the visible kingdome of the devil , which to say is false doctrine , i shall bring mr. baxter to stop the mouth of mr. baxter and to convince him that either there is a third state , in which believers infants are in their infancy , which is neither of these two , or else to drive him to that dilemma , to preach this false doctrine himself that believers infants are in the visible kingdome of the devil . to this purpose i first demand of him , which of these two viz. the visible church of christ or the visible kingdome of the devil believers infants are visibly in before baptism ? first as for the visible kingdom of the devil he must say they are either visibly in it or out of it , if he say they are in it , then he himself preaches that false doctrine , which he saies is ours , and makes all infants , even of believers members of the visible kingdom of the devil ; if he say they are out , and not in the visible kingdom of the devil , then that doctrine , which teaches men to leave them unbaptized , and denies them to be admitted members of the visible church of christ till they come to age , is not guilty as he saies it is , of making them doctrinally members of the visible kingdome of the devil , for it is but a delay indeed till they can do what is required to baptism . as for the visible church of christ he must say they are either visibly in it before baptism , or not in but out of it , if he say they are in the visible church of christ visibly before baptism , then they cannot be said to be ( as oh how oft ore and ore again are they said to be by mr. bax. p. . . ? ) admitted to be members , entered , listed , added , initiated into it as into christs school , and first stated into it by baptism , for to be first entered into it by baptism , and yet to be visibly in it before baptism , these two are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 utterly inconsistent each with other , as to be let into a room when , and while one is already in the room is impossible , yet with mr. b. persons are let into the visible church after they are in it , yea they must be in it , saith he , before they may be admitted to be in it , nor will his distinction of a member compleat and incompleat p. . which he used before to the tearm disciple , which i know he will make , help him at all here , sith with himself an incompleat member is one that hath but jus adrem , not in re , ad ecclesiam , not in ecclesia a right to onely , not a standing in the church , a title to the relative change , and not a being yet in that relative change , that he saies passes upon him by baptism . besides , to say the truth they are but incompleat members after baptism , whom you baptize , sith when baptized and in the church they have not present right to other ordinances of the church , for you admit not your infant members to the supper : but if he say they are not visibly in the church of christ before baptism , but out of it , as indeed they are , then either he must say they are in the visible kingdome of the devil , which is false doctrine with himself to say of believers infants , or else say they are in some third or middle state , to the unsaying of what he said before by way of denial of such a third state , which let him say , and we will agree with him , and such a third state there is , which all infants are in as well as some , whether he will deny himself so as to acknowledge it yea , or no. his . plain scripture-less proof for infant church-membership and baptism is this viz. that doctrine which leaveth us no sound grounded hope of the justification or salvation of any dying infant in the world , is certainly false doctrine , but that doctrine which denieth any infants to be members of the visible church doth leave us no &c. this argument i have spoken to sufficiently above , and thereupon might well passe it by here , and refer mr. ba. thither for an answer , where in answer to the ashford disputants , that urge the same argument , enough to satisfie is returned ; but finding this to be that which of all things most gravels mr. baxter and makes him stick so stiffly to his plea for the baptism , and church-membership of infants , because unlesse that be owned he can find no good ground in all the word whereupon to hope or believe that any dying infant in all the world can be saved , which if he could find , he would find the vanity of his venting so much concerning a necessity of baptizing , and inchurching infants , and save himself a deal of puzzling himself about that , which the new testament hath not one word of , and fearing lest i should be judged cowardly to slide by it , as if i saw mr. ba. handled it more unanswerably then any other , and partly because mr. ts. suspension of his judgement concerning the future state of any infants is puft at by him , and uneffectual to his satisfaction , unlesse he could assure him of the salvation of some dying infants , at least of believing parents , which if he could assure him of out of the way of their church-membership and baptism , it should satisfie him sufficiently , i perceive , to censure all other infants to hell , and to say all those millions of poor innocents , i mean the dying infants of other men , in respect of which these he is so pittiful to are scarce one of a . are all damned for ever , with which harsh , cruel , bloody and mercilesse censure of his i am much more , and more groundedly dissatisfied , then he is about the denial of meer outward membership , and bare ordinance of baptism to those few , on whose behalf he pleads them , and lastly hoping the lord may lend him some ligh● whereby to see a consistency between the non membership and baptism of believers infants , and the salvation of the dying infants of , not believers onely , but all dying innocent infants in the world , i shall enter on an examination of what he saies to the contrary , and an explication of what apprehension in this particular i am begotten to by the word of truth , and though i shall decline sacerdotale delirium that common stock of divinity , which the clergy have treasured up in their theological systems , out of which ocean of error , and dead sea of tradition the younger rabbies use to draw into their common place books , and store themselves with arguments against anabaptistical heresie , i. e. this troublesome truth , yet i trust i shall give a good account before all the world at the tribunal of christ jesus . in order hereunto therefore i first flatly deny the minor of mr. bas. above cited syllogism , which by another syllogism he proves viz. they that are not so much as seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation , of them so dying we can have no ground of christian hope that they shall be saved . but they that are not so much as seemingly or visibly of the church , are not so much as seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation , therefore of them so dying we can have no true ground of hope that they shall be saved . the major of this second syllogism , which he sets himself to prove , i freely grant to be true . the minor i have many things to say to ; first , i take notice how he changes the termes from what they were in this pro-syllogism , which , had he been minded to deal fairly , and not to sophisticate and shuffle , i know not why he should do , and a sincere disputant whould not have done it . in the minor of the former syllogism the terms were thus viz. that doctrine that denieth infants to be members of the visible church , but here he writes , leaving out the word visible , foisting in the word seemingly and visibly to fill up the room of it , that it might not be mist , they that are not seemingly or visibly of the church , whereas he ought of right to have brought in the minor , and conclusion thus viz. but they that are not members of the visible church , are not so much as seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation , therefore of them viz. them that are not members of the visible church , we can have no true ground of christian hope that they can be saved , i say he should have exprest it visible church in both places , else the word church being understood by mr. ba , for the invisible church sometimes , i , e. them that are not onely seemingly sincere , and in state of salvation , but as really and truly in state of salvation as they seem , by this variation of his from visible church to church without the term visible the state of the question may be changed : and howbeit he premises this and takes it for granted that to be a visible member of the church , and to be a member of the visible church is all one , saying he that denies that will shew but his vanity , yet he takes it before it is granted him from me , who am one of those vain ones , that by his favour deny these to be all one , unlesse by the word church in both places he means the visible church , which though i do not say he doth not , yet i say if he do , he should by right have exprest it , or else there may be fallacy in it , for i aver to mr. ba. and albeit i seem to him to speak paradoxes , and parables thorow the distance of our principles , yet i hope to make it clear to his conscience , that the visible church doth not so contain the invisible in it , as he saies it doth p. . but that there are cases wherein persons may be both real and visible i. e. to us seeming members of the invisible church , or mistical body of sincere ones , and in state of salvation , and yet not be real members of the visible church ; or else ( not to speak now of the state of believers infants , whom you rantize , before you rantize them ) let him tell me what visible state believers themselves , whom onely , and not their infants acts . . . the first gospel ministry bap●ized , were in immediately before they baptized them ? they were not visibly members , after profession of their faith , of the visible kingdom of the devil , and therefore at least visible and seeming members of christs mistical body , and of the invisible church , and in state of salvation , and yet were they not members visibly of the visible church of christ till ( though i hold not baptism it self neither to be the immediate formal entrance into the visible church , yet necessarily previous to it ) till i say they were ( to use mr. bas. own phrase by baptism admitted , and stated in it : for to be admitted to be a member of the visible church , and yet to be a member of that visible church before that admittance are utterly inconsistent each with other , yea to enter in by baptism , and yet to be in before baptism , beside the contradiction that is in one of these to the other , it makes your baptism , which you call the sacrament of visible entrance , to be what you say the supper is , i. e. a sacrament rather of continuance : to be seemingly therefore and visibly a member , or to be a visible member of the church , unlesse we mean the visible church , ( and then it ought to be so exprest by them that hold there is an invisible ) and to be a member of the visible church are not all one : thus having first justly faulted the minor for its fallacious faultring in the terms , and form of it , and varying from those of the first syllogisme and setting down the syllogisme in the plain termes in which mr. baxter should have done it , viz. they that are not so much as seemingly or visibly in the state of salvation , of them so dying we can have no true ground of christian hope that they shall be saved . but they that are not members of the visible church , are not so much as seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation , therefore of them that are not members of the visible church , so dying we can have no true ground of christian hope that they shall be saved . in the second place i fault the minor of this argument as most false and unsound in the matter of it , and therefore i lay down this for truth , which is directly opposite to it viz. that they that are not members of the visible church may be seemingly and visibly in a state of salvation , and so consequently that of them that are not members of the visible church so dying , we may have true ground of christian hope that they shall be saved . these two positions with the consequence thereof are so contradictory each to other , that if this latter be truth then the former universally understood i. e. of all that are not of the visible church , as it must be , or else it serves not mr. ba s purpose , must needs be false : whereupon i need do no more toward the disproof of his then to prove my own , in order to which i shall premise what the visible church is , and then examine whether it be not possible for some persons as mr. ba. it seems thinks it is not , to be seemingly and visibly in a state of salvation , and yet not be members of the visible church . the true visible church now in the times of the gospel , and so onely it concerns our purpose to consider of it , is all those severall particular visible assemblies , and societies of persons in the world , or visible disciples collectively taken , which in all places and ages since christ past , present and to come , being first separated , or called out of the world to personall prosession of repentance from dead works , and faith towards god , of remission of sins by christ iesus , of resurrection of the dead , and the eternall judgement , and baptized in water in the name of christ for remission of sins , and together with imposition of hands , prayed for , that they may receive the holy spirit of promise , do afterward continue stedfastly in the doctrine of the apostles , and in fellowship , and in breaking of bread and prayers : all the true universall visible church that i know of , if you will needs have an universal visible is that which doth exist in these particular visible societies , and is neither narrower nor wider then these particulars . such was the visible gospel church in the primitive times , and the same and no other then that which was the visible church then is the visible church now , and in all times of the gospell , wherein it is at all : the visible church was that which did consist and was made up of all the particular churches that then were viz. rome , corinth , and all the rest , which were societies and assemblies of persons thus called , gathered and built up an house unto god , upon the foundation of the first principles of the doctrine of christ , as the six above named are called heb. . . as they are also called eph. . . the foundation of the prophets and apostles i. e. that form of doctrine as t is called rom. . . which every beginner in christ did own and obey , and which obeying he was fit matter for the visible church , and was after by mutual consent of the party offering himself , and their suffering him to join with them acts . . formally added , actually admitted to visible fellowship with them in breaking of bread and prayers , for that with freedome on both sides such persons as had thus far been taught , and had learned these principles , this a b c , and owned it i. e. professing to believe what of it was matter of faith , and visibly practising what of it was practical , were visible disciples , new born babes heb. . . and such babes being baptized , and , having laid this foundation as to fellowship , were then accepted thereunto that they might grow up to perfection , in order whereunto unto this visible church ephes. . . which though it exists in many several particular bodies , each of which is independent on any other head then christ , and impowered from him to determine all its own affaires ultimately within it self , yet since it endeavours to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , is said to be but one body , because of one spirit , one call , one hope , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god and father of them all , who is above all and through all , and in them all , god hath given officers gifted for its service , viz. some apostles , some prophets , some pastors and teachers , for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministery , for the edifying of this visible body of christ , till we all come to a perfect man , to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ eph. . . . . . . . . as for that catholique visible church , i mean that voluminous body or part of the world commonly called christ'ndome , which was once all as it were of one language and one speech , and is now rather three in one or a triune treader of the truth viz. papall , prelaticall , presbyterial , yet to this day exists in those particular visibles as were never thus seperated , and called , and constituted upon the foundation of the doctrine of the apostles , but conglomerated by the lump by the apostle peters supposed successor into nationall , provinciall , parochiall , ( to call a spade a spade ) i can call it no other then the cccatholique beast , that bears now in three parts a bbbabilonish ccclergy rev. . . i. e. indeed the very cccatholique whore rev. . as for particular persons , though professing to be believers that yet are not baptized , and added to some such particular visible society or church , but are yet abiding in the capacity only of single though visible saints , till they are both baptizd and added as members to walk in fellowship with some particular assembly , and congregation in breaking bread and prayers , as every such a one as supposes himself to be a saint ought to be , or else his saintship may be much suspected if he will not , they are no visible members of the visible church but onely fitter materials then they were before their faith , and in a neerer right to be both baptized and admitted to be members , then when they had none : they are better matter for the visible church , but not yet formally of the visible church , have jus ad rem , not in re , ad ecclesiam , not in ecclesia a right to the church , but not actual standing in it till entered and admitted . nor yet are they immediate matter for , or in immediate right to membership , though believing , till baptized , but materia remota , and in jure quodam conditionali , & remoto , a certain remote matter , though neerer then when meerly men , and in a conditional and remote right . for as believers are the immediate matter for , or in immediate right to baptism , so baptized believers after laying on of hands in prayer are the immediate subject , i. e. in immediate right to be admitted , yet neither are baptized believers actuall members till admitted , the formality and most immediate entrance , and way of becoming a visible member of a particular visible church , and so consequently of the generall visible ( if i may so call it ) which hath its existence in all the particular churches , which are the immediate matter , of which that is made up , being not simply the act of baptism , but the act of joining our selves after it act . . and the constitutive form of a visible church is not their being all baptized , but their free falling into fellowship with each other , and though we are said to be all baptized into one body , t is an expression of the necessity only of every ones being baptized in order to a being in the visible church , for none hath right to be of the visible body unbaptized , but though the baptized have immediate right to be of the body , yet are they not meerly of it because baptized , till added to it , and as one cannot be said to be actually under baptism , from an immediate right to it by faith , till he have submitted , so neither can we be said to be actually in the body from our immediate right to it by baptism , till we are admitted . self condemned sinners have a right to believe in christ , believers a right to baptism , baptized believers a right to the spirit of promise , & to have hands laid on with prayer , that they may receive it according to the promise asts . acts . acts . such as these to fellowship in the visible church , yet not in fellowship till , assaying to join themselves , they are accepted , and yet in a visible state of salvation too both before baptized , as the thief , and after baptized before added to the church visible , as the eunuch , who both were seemingly members of the invisible church , and yet then when converted and baptizd , neither one not the other as yet actual members of the visible : stones though never so unhewn and ragged are remote matter , hewn and polished stones immediate and fit matter for a building , yet not a building , till built together ; many sheep are fit matter to make a flock , yet not formally a flock till they come neer together . christs visible church is christs flock , gods house , temple , building , several sheep , and single disciples , that hear his voice , believe in him , and are baptized into his name for remission of sins , are pecious materials , and in potentiâ proximâ thereunto , yet be they never so many of them , not visibly , actually , nor formally a flock , an house , a temple , a building , his visible church longer then imbodyed into fellowships , nor till fitly framed together they are builded an habitation of god through the spirit , ephes. . . . . any more then many sheep that never came neer each other , are a flock , and a multitude of fitted and squared stones , lying a long way a sunder each from other make a building . mr. b. shall be no champion of my choosing to mannage the matter against the non-churchers of these times , for all he flourishes his sword so against them at the end of his book , if he plead the cause of them so , that sit down satisfyed in single fellowship between god and themselves onely , living up with him in the spirit , contenting themselves to believe onely , and renouncing all ordinances , forsaking the assembling of themselves together , and all fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers ; if he grant the denomination of the true visible church to such as these , as well as to those that continue stedfast in the apostles doctrine , and in fellowship in breaking bread and prayers : yet mr. b. does not yet agree with me in this that the particular assemblies collectively taken are the only visible church , for indeed he is aware that it overturns all his visibilities from the bottom , and layes this foundation of no salvation for infants without the visible church , on which he frames his present argument , flat on the ground , to allow the bounds of the visible church to be no broader then all the particular visible societies that are actually baptized , and in formal fellowship in breaking bread and prayers , so as to say he is no member of the visible church , that is not actually entred , and solemnly stated in some particular congregation or other ; therefore being politick , he premises this among the rest . . you must understand , saith he ( but a man may understand a little better if he will ) that to be a member of the visible church is not to be a member of any particular , or politick body or society . nay more to make his own matter good , and that he may find out a way of his own , whereby to hope well of all the infants of believers before baptism , that they may be saved ( for let all other dying infants damn for him , he cares not for harbouring any hope of them ) and finding no way but one , whereby to help himself to any hope of those , i. e. by feigning them to be of the visible church , he fetches the visible church so far , that he makes it larger then the number of visible baptized ones , and holds all believers infants to be in the visible church from the womb , and though in the last page but two of his book he disputes against twice entring into the visible body ; he feigns them to enter first into the visible church , when they first enter into the world , besides and before their second first entrance into the visible church by baptism : i wonder whether he hold those believers infants to be of the visible church or no , that were once alive yet dy again in the womb ? but for all these flim-flames , mr. ba. will once know i hope that the true visible church is no other , then all those particular politicall assemblies , in which baptized believers hold fellowship together , and that to be a member of the visible church is to be a member of some political society ( or else how can such be ruld , admonisht , complained on to the church as mat. . and excommunicated , if need be , in case of obstinacy , if under no ecclesiasticall government ? ) and yet to hope well of the salvation of all infants that dy in infancy too without either baptism or visible membership in those visible societies . and if he will not agree with me about it , that the visible church is all the visible assemblies of christians onely , will he agree with dr. featley , who defines the true visible church to be where the word is truly taught , and the sacraments duly administred ? where therefore neither word is taught , nor sacraments at all administred , as to unbaptized infants i judge they are not , nor baptized infants neither , there 's no visible church ; again , the universal visible church , that is saith he , all the assemblies of christians in the world , the visible church and all the assemblies are adaequate with him , at least therefore unbaptized infants cannot be of it , for they were never entred into the assemblies ; but if mr. ba. will agree with neither of us , we shall perswade him i hope to agree in this with mr. ba. for howbeit mr. ba. will needs reckon upon the very unbaptized infants of believers as not in right to the visible church onely , but of it , in it , visible members of it as as soon as born ( for let him study his own book , how oft does he beat upon that , saying , there is but two states for them to be in , or members of the visible kingdome of the devil , or the visible church of christ , but believers infants before baptism are not in the first , therefore in the visible church of christ ? ) though i say he speak of them as in the visible church before baptism , as not knowing else how to hope their salvation , if they dy without it , yet if any man living do deny infants , or any other to be of or in the visible church before or without baptism , mr. ba. denies it , with whom how often is it exprest that baptism is the first visible entrance into it ? yea ( to say nothing of his own definition of the visible church , p. . to be such as were baptized and continued together in fellowship in breaking bread and prayers , which ought to conclude the whole church so defined unlesse he have defined it by the halves ) in his plea for the continuance of baptism against the seekers p. . . he saies so , and saies moreover that we must not admit any to be of the body without it , that it is the appointed ordinary way of ingrafting all into the body that are ingrafted , and p. . . he saies baptism still is to be at and not after persons are stated in the church , at and not after our admission , at and not after our igraf●ing and entrance into the visible church , making baptism and our first being in or of the visible church so simultaneous , that we may not , must not be supposed to be in , to be of , to be visibly members of the visible church before baptism , which if it be true , as indeed it is , that none can be counted to the body , as one of it , though in never such right to it first , before baptism ordinarily , at least as he pleads , how doth all this hang together , and agree with what he pleads here and in the foregoing argument p. . where he saith it is not the deniall of baptism directly that leaveth infants in the visible kingdom of the devill ? i would every one , and mr. ba. himself would consider this grant of mr. ba. for then , what ever necessity there may be of supposing them , as he doth , to be visible members in infancy , and even before they are baptized , we can suppose them in as good a state as he , yet at least there will be no need to baptize them , whereby to put us into more hopes of their salvation if they dy in infancy , for if i can hope the salvation of some believers infants that die without baptism , upon that account , what ere t is , i may as well hope the salvation of them all dying without baptism , and so save the frivolous pains of baptizing infants at all , he goes on thus , t is true saith he , that many unbaptized are in the kingdome of christ , meaning his visible church , but no man who is known to be out of christs visible church ordinarily can be out of satans visible kingdome : i say how do these things square ? hear what he saies , no entring into or being in the visible church , but by baptism , and yet many unbaptized are in the visible church viz. all believers infants ▪ before baptism viz. from the womb . either mr. ba. must hold two first entrances into the visible church viz. natural birth and baptism , or else he must hold that baptism is not the first entrance , or else that believers infants are not entred , and if not so , not in the visible church before baptism , whether they have right to be so or no , which is another question ; if he chuse to say the first , then he contradicts what he saies of entring the visible church p. . if the d . he contradicts all he saies of baptism being the onely entrance ; if the d. that believers infants are not entred , and so not in nor visibly of the visible church before baptism , then of these two things he must say one viz. either that all the infants of believers that dy before their visible entrance into the visible church by baptism are damned without hope , which he neither will nor can say , or else say that there is hope of dying infants salvation , and that they may be seemingly and visibly in a state of saluation , and yet not be visible members of the visible church , and then what need any further witnesse or disproof ? for hee l confute the minor out of his own mouth , which i am to disprove , and save me the labour . for if they may be in a visible state of salvation and yet not be visibly in the visible church ; then t is so , and there 's an end . if to all this he saies that he meanes not more , but that believers infants before baptism have right to be baptized , and to be of it , and to deny them that right to it denies them salvation , i deny that infants dying without right to be of the visible gospel church denies them to be in state of salvation , and shall shew the contrary , neverthelesse mr. ba. might have spoken more properly , and plainly , then to call a right to visible membership by the name of visible membership it self , as he often , yea all along does , therefore we might wish him to mend his minor before we meddle with it , and also he must confesse to the contradiction of himself , that there is a third state betwen the visible church of christ , and the visible kingdom of the devil , in which infants must be supposed to be by himself viz. a right to the church , but not a present standing in it , which kind of right and middle state i acknowledge ●● baptized believers to have , but as for infants , though they are in a present visible state of , and right to salvation as well as they , unlesse living longer they reject gods grace afresh which dying infants cannot do , and so not in the visible kingdome of the devil , yet are they neither in , nor yet in immediate right to the visible church as men and women of years not yet baptized and yet believing are , but in medio abnegationis together with them , these things premised , i come now to the disproof of his minor , in which i le take him in a fairer sense for himself then he expresses himself in , and yet make no question but to disprove it , in contradistinction unto which i lay down my self thus ; viz. that not only some men may be de facto no members , but all infants de jure in no right to membership in the visible church of christ under the gospell , and yet both be possibly in state of salvation . now how far forth de facto persons may be out of an actual standing in the visible church , and yet in a visible state of salvation , i le not meddle much to examine , because the question is ( though mr. b. does not so fairly expresse it , but i take it in the way that is most to his advantage ) whether denyal of the jus this imediate right to membership excludes them not from salvation ? yet thus much i shall say to that viz. if persons must be seemingly , and visibly in state of salvation , before they are to be admitted members , they may be as yet no members of the visible church de facto , and yet in a visible state of salvation . this is evident not only by the singular case of the theif , who never was actually admitted into the visible church , nor so much as baptized at all for want of opportunity , and yet in a visible state of salvation , but also if we instance in all others that ever we read were baptized in the primitive times , who were first seemingly and visibly in a state of repentance , faith and disposition to obey christ in all things , and therefore in a visible state of salvation heb. . . and then after this added to the church m●t. . mark. . . act. . act. . act. . act. . for a certain remote , and conditional right all persons have ; thus de facto : and now de jure that the denyal of persons present and immediate right to membership in the visible church doth not deny them universally to be in a visible state of salvation is evident also thus , viz. if some persons both men and infants may appear to us to be in state of salvation , and yet not in immediate present right to be joined to the visible church , then the denyal of persons present and immediate right to membership in the visible church does not universally deny them to be in a visible state of salvation . but some persons , yea both men and infants , may appear to us to be in a state of salvation , and yet at the same time not be in so much as immediate and present right to be joined to the visible church . therefore . the first proposition is most clear , the second i shall make as cleer . first , briefly concerning men , secondly , more largely concerning infants , because the question mainly is of them . concerning men i instance in all the believers in the primitive times , of whom comparing scripture with scripture act. . act. . act. . heb. . . . it s most evident they had not an absolute immediate right to visible fellowship in the visible church , though converted to faith and repentance by the word , and so in a visible state of salvation , as the thief upon the crosse , so far as with him visibly repenting & believing , till such time as they were admitted after baptism , and ●aying on of hands with prayer , and of single disciples , as they were before , they were added , and admitted in to the visible body , till of single living pretious stones , as they were before by their precious faith , they were built up visibly into a house , the whole building the whole body was fitly framed together , fitly joined together , as well as shaped before , therefore they that were not actually added and joined were not of the body ephe. . . the . . if the whole were compacted by joints , and bands , then all the parts were actually added and joined , and those , that were not joined , were no part of the whole so col. . . knit together . mr. bax. argues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the cart before the horse , they must be first supposed to be visibly members in the visible church , before to be visibly in a state of salvation , but it is undeniably apparent they must have visible right to salvation , and that by faith too , before visible right to membership in the visible church . mr. bax. supposes persons must be first supposed to be members of the visible church a priori before they can be warrantably supposed to be of the invisible , i. e. to be such as shall be saved , for if a person be of the invisible church he must be thought to be of the visible much more , for the visible containes the invisible in it saith he p. . and ordinarily we may not judge any to be of the invisible church , he means in real state of salvation , who are not , meaning first , of the visible p. . but now i say and suppose the clean contrary viz. that persons must be first supposed to be of the invisible church a priori before they can be warrantably supposed to be of , yea or so much as to have right to be of the visible ; who backs mr. ba. in his sinister supposition i weigh not , let him chuse his second if he will , i le chuse mr. bax. himself to back me , and to be witnesse to the truth of mine , whose words are altogether the same with mine p . viz. if we were fully certain by his own externall discourses that any man were not of the invisible church , that man should not be taken to be of the visible . in order of time therefore persons were to seem to be members of the invisible church , and were visibly in a state of salvation first before they could have any right at all so much as to be baptized , which with mr. ba. himself was the first entrance into membership in the visible church , but with me is not so much as an immediate entrance into it , but that which is necessarily to go before it , therefore persons may be seemingly in a state of salvation , and not yet in present right to membership in the visible church , much lesse actually and visibly in it . and now concerning infants , of whom mr. ba. asserts that they must be members of the visible church , or else cannot be seemingly or visibly in a state of salvation , upon such slender grounds as these , he concludes it to be clear viz. first , because it is the body that christ is the saviour of , and his people that he redeemeth from their sins , and his sheep to whom he gives eternal life , and those that sleep in iesus that god will bring with him , and the dead in christ that shall rise to salvation , and those that die in the lord that rest from their labours and the church that christ will present pure and unspotted , all which places i appeal to mr. bas. conscience whether they speak not of the misticall body , and invisible church of christ , to which all and onely they square , and are adaequate , and not to the visible church , which he was to speak to , or else speaks nothing to the purpose , to all which visible church , and to onely which these things agree not , for neither all those , that are of the visible church are saved , nor onely those of the visible church saved , witnesse many infants of believers whom mr. ba. dares not say are damned , some never living to enter the visible church so farre as to baptism , and some , once alive , coming dead out of the womb , which he is blind that ever saw to be in the visible church , so that he sits here beside the saddle . secondly , and thirdly , because there is no divine revelation for the salvation of any without the visible church , that yields good ground of christian faith , or hope that any such shall be saved , as notwithstanding he saies there is not , yet i shall shew there is by and by . fourthly , because it is said acts the . . that god added to the visible church dayly such as should be saved , which though he did , yet t was not all nor onely such , but onely such men and women , not such infants , as should be saved . concerning infants in proof of the proposition above viz. that some infants may be in visible state of salvation , and yet not be in , nor yet in present right to membership in the visible church , i argue thus downrightly . first , if all infants are in infancy in a visible state of salvation , and no infants are members , or in any right to be members in their infancy of the visible church under the gospel , then some infants may in infancy be in a visible state of salvation , ●●d yet not be in , nor yet in present right to membership in the visible church ▪ but all infants &c. and no infants &c. ergo , some infants ut supra . the first proposition is most undeniably clear , the minor hath two parts , which i shall prove successively one ofter another , and then i have done with this argument of mr. ba. i le ptove the last first , and the first last , and here i dare say i might easily muster up scores , if not a century of solid arguments toward the fuller clearing of it , that no babes now , but the new born babes spoken of pet. . . . . . i. e. at least in appearance spiritually born babes , such as those iohn . cor. . . heb. . . are to be baptized , and built upon the foundation i. e. doctrine of christ and the apostles , a spiritual house , a holy temple i. e. visible church unto iesus christ now in these daies of the gospel , and that no mans fleshly seed or natural posterity , no not abrahams own barely on such an account as being his bodily seed , much lesse any believing gentiles , who hath not more priviledge then his seed i think , but onely the ( at least seeming ) spiritual seed of abraham i. e. those that are children of god , and abrahams too by faith in christ gal. . . . as no infant is , have right to dwell in this family , the babes , the seed of abraham circumcised in heart , the children of the heavenly promise pointed at , and typed out by the iews babes , and that circumcised seed of isaac , and those children of that earthly promise of the old canaan , these are the true sons of the free woman , the gospel visible church , before whom the bond woman , and her son i. e. abrahams meer ●leshly seed , though by isaac , are cast out , that they may dwell alone in the house , as hagar and her son were cast out of abrahams house of old before isaac and his seed , that they might dwell alone , for look how ishmael and his seed stood in reference to isaac and his , that were the children by promise of the earthly canaan viz. but servants that must not abide the house longer , when the other came in to stand , so isaac the type , and his seed themselves , in reference to christ the true isaac and his seed i. e. believers viz. as servants that must be packing , when he comes in , and not abide in the house together with him see iohn . galatians . ult . but that were to begin the work again , which i have finisht above , where i have given a touch of these things , and but a touch in comparison of what might be said ; and of multiplying arguments , and making many books there is no end . therefore i le hint but a few , among which this shall be the first . if the standing upon the root abraham , i. e. the family or visible church of god since christ be by faith in the person onely so standing , and not by faith in the parent , as of old , then infants cannot now stand therein . but so t is , therefore the other . the consequence is cleared by the consideration of the incapacity of infants to believe , faith being assent to something propounded to us , faith comming by hearing , and hearing by the word rom. . so that who so thinks it possible for infants 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere when it is said how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard , is wretchedly inconsiderate . the minor is evident out of rom. . where it is said the very natural branches of abrahams body , that did on that account meerly as the fleshly seed of that father of the faithfull stand in the olive tree , the visible church , before time , yet now could stand no longer on that old account , why ? were they not the seed of abraham still , that stood without faith in the old visible church to the very end of it ? yes , but they believed not in their own persons , therefore could not stand in this house , but were cast out of their own olive , their own father abrahams family , i. e. the visible church , now christ came in , because of unbelief , and thou ( saith paul to the gentile ) standest , how ? by fleshly descent ? no , that standing is gone from such as come of abrahams himself , therefore is not to thee , nor to thine , but by faith , i. e. personal , and not parentall . a second this , if all they that are baptized into one visible body under the gospell are made in the supper to drink into one spirit , then infants , who cannot drink into one spirit with the body , secundum te may not be baptized into that visible body . but this is true cor. . . therefore that . so col. . . all the body is knit together , and by joints , and bands hath nourishment ministred , and increaseth by that which every joint , and member supplieth eph. . . but infants are not capable to have spirituall nourishment minstired , and to grow in grace , as all the body ought to do at least , and this in the use of the supper . if you say they are capable of spiritual nourishment , i say as capable i think as of the spiritual birth , for where there 's a birth there 's a growth , but then me thinks they should be as capable of the supper , which is the sacrament of spirituall nourishment , being capable of that , as being capable of spiritual birth , they are of baptism the outward sacrament of the same . but mr. bax. denies that page . . among other reasons for this , because though capable to be washed , yet not to eat bread , and drink wine in their first infancy . oh strange ! they may have it then as they can eat and drink . a third is this , if no infants were baptized and added to the first gospell visible church , then surely they had no right so to be , for the apostles would not do them that wrong as not to add them that had right , but this is true , therefore that . the minor is plain out of acts . where to the . men and women that without infants continued in fellowship acts . there were added . more in one day , and not one infant among them , but as many onely as gladly received the word , nor more nor lesse ( for else luke couzens us in his history ) and continued after their baptism in fellowship in breaking bread and prayers , which no infants did , and yet it is well nigh infallible , that those had some infants belonging to some of them , which would have been added with their parents , if the promise is to you , and to your children and them a far off , even as many as the lord shall call would bear the sense divines drawes it to . yea master cotton himself conceives that no infants were baptized at that time , and when else either these or any other were , neither i , not any one else ever found , since they began to read christs testament with their eyes open . yea peter commanded no more to be baptized but the same persons whom he speaks to also to repent , which me thinks he should have done , saying be baptized every one of you , and baptize your children also , if any such thing had been intended , and christians infants were to have been separated out of the world , and called to be saints , and baptized , as mr. b. believes they are to be , but not i. for what saies paul in his epistle to the romans , chapter . i suppose he wrote not to infants , yet to all the called saints , to all that be in rome called to be saints . so in cor. . the . if the whole church come together , and all speak with tongues , and all prophe-y . so . every one of you hath a psalm . so . ye may all prophecy one by ons that all may be edifyed . he writes , and so surely he seems to me to do all his epistles , to the whole church , and speaks to the whole body , yet i cannot conceive that to any infants , who are uncapable to be edifyed and comforted . yea cor. . . . the members of the visible body of christ ought to have the same care one for another , so that if one member suffer all the members suffer with it , if one be honoured all rejoice with it . this cannot infants do , therefore surely are not of this visible body of christ. another argument which master baxter himself mentions , and slights , as simply supposing that it excludes infants from salvation , is that of mr. tombs viz. that the onely way now appointed by christ to make visible church members is by teaching the persons themselves , and that none else must be members of the visible church , but those that have learnt as infants have not . this argument is of great weight , and receives as trifling an answer from mr. b for saith he , then it will much more follow that they are not , or at least that we may not judge them to be of the invisible church at all i. e. to be such as so dying shall be saved . the contrary to which , and inconsequence of which i have shewed above and shall shew more by and by . secondly ( saith he ) if they may argue from matth. the . . that none , but those that are taught are true disciples , and are to be baptized , why may they not as well argue from mark the . chap. . verse , who ever believeth not shall be damned , that all infants are certainly damned ? to which i say first i am one , who argues from math . that none but such as are taught are disciples , and to be baptized , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is teach ye , or make ye disciples by teaching , or cause to learn , then which i testify to mr. bs. face that there is no other way , whereby we can make disciples of christ , persons being properly called disciples of disco 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to learn , and i blush at that bald stuff , wherewith he strives , and streines his wits till he becomes ridiculous , to make the denomination of disciple appear to be due to infants p. . as namely , because they are taken into christs school and kingdome , i. e. his visible church , [ whereas t is before persons are taken into this school that they are disciples therefore not by it ] also because they are not lesse docible then some bruits [ as if some brutes are so docible as to deserve the name of disciples of christ , therfore much more infants ] because mothers , nurses teach them by gesture , action and voice partly , and dishearten , and take them off from vices , and if not at first to know christ , yet if any of the duty of a rationall creature it is somewhat [ somewhat indeed but nothing to purpose , for as if mothers could take them off from vices in such meer nonage wherein you baptize them , as or if they could learn them any of a natural creatures duty so young as at eight or nine daies old , as if to learn the duty of a rational creature , which many a man learns , but no infants , could denominate disciples of christ ] because christ can teach them immediately by his spirit if they can learn nothing of their parents by action , and voice ] [ from which christ can teach them to denominate believers infants disciples of christ , before we have any evidence that he does teach them any more then other infants , that must be no disciples , when christ can teach these as well as those . i cannot conceive the foppery of it it is so great ] because when a philosopher was hired to teach a man , and his children those were children disciples of that philosopher [ as if ever any wise man did hire another wise man to teach him and his nine daies old infants ] because infants can so quickly learn to know father and mother and what they mean in their speeches and actions [ as if so quickly as you baptize them , and lastly as if this will be an accurate account for baptizing of infants , and accepted as an answer of christs commission , who there bids us teach or make persons disciples to plead thus , viz. lord we could not teach infants , nor make them thy disciples by teaching , yet seeing they could quickly learn to know father and mother , we supposed upon this , and several such like reasons , that the name disciple of christ was their due , and so that t was our duty to baptize them . ] moreover ad hominem , as he saies of the word holy p. . so i of the term disciple , whose constant meaning is one that hath learnt as mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so iohn . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 every one that hath learned , we shall have better defence before the iudgement seat of christ for taking the term disciple in that sense as the scripture uses it in scores of times viz. for persons learnt or taught then they that take it for indocible infants , a sense the scripture never uses it in at all , but a hundred times otherwise , to say nothing of iohn . . luke . . . where christ saies if we do , what ( i am sure ) infants do not we are , and if we do not what infants cannot do , we cannot be his disciples . secondly , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is teach them i. e. the gospel , so none are here bid to be baptized , but the very same individual persons , that are bid also to be taught : first baptizing them , and after teaching them again , whom ? those persons in the nations whom they have taught onely , and not their infants ; for we may as well say the men that they never taught , as them , since christ hath in precepto conjoined teaching , or our discipling and baptizing together , and infants cannot by our teaching of them be discipled visibly . the argument in its true form is this viz. what christ hath conjoined i. e. in his commission for baptizing that man must not separate , i. e. in his practise . but christ hath conjoined our discipling persons and baptizing them in his commission , for baptizing , as a standing course to the end of the world as mat. . . . shews . ergo no man must separate these two in his practise . if dr. featley were alive to answer this he would happily say t is no topical , but a sophistical syllogism , for when a. r. makes much what the like from mar. . . viz. what god hath joined together no man ought to separate , but faith and baptism god hath joined together acts . . ergo faith and baptism none ought to separate . he saies there 's a double falacy in it viz. homonimiae , or ambiguity in the premises i , e. in the termes joined together , for it may be meant saith he , either in precepto , and that no man denyeth , or insube●cto the subject i. e. so as to say that all that are baptized have faith , and none have faith but the baptized , and in this sense it is apparently false saith he , whereupon to prevent dr. featleys followers from charging the above syllogism with that fallacy i have exprest in what sense i mean it , viz. in precepto , in which sense the premisses are granted to be true by the dr. himself , and therefore i know not why they should be denied by mr. ba. or any else , and then the con●lu●ion must be true : but saith dr. feat . there is a fallacy called ignoratio elenchi in the conclusion i. e. it concludes not the thing in question , but that which is not denied by us , for they that are for baptizing of infants , do not separate faith and baptism , for they baptize children into their fathers faith saith he ; secondly they believe that infants of believers receive some hidden grace of faith in time of their baptizing , his followers say before baptism p. . of their pamphlet ( oh how contrary are they each to other ) therefore are to be baptized ; but mr. ba. will say none of all this i hope , for he is against baptismal regeneration , nor will he charge the syllogism with sophistry i hope , but deny either the major , or the minor , either of which if he do , he answers his own grand argument against the seekers p. , where word for word ( saving a term or two put in here for explication ) this very syllogism is his own , or else he will grant both these , and consequently the conclusion to be true , and then why will he dispense baptism to persons i. e. infants , before they so much as seem to believe ? but it may be that which is a good syllogism , when used by himself , will be meer sophism with him too when urged by us : secondly the reason why we may not argue that all infants are damned from mark . . though they believe not , is this viz. because that place speaks of persons at years onely , to whom the gospel is preached , and not of infants , that are not capable to believe . but then saies mr. ba. the same may be answered to the argument from mat. . against infants being disciples , and to be baptized . to whom i reply thus . first , if he saies ( as we of mark . . ) of mat. . . viz. that go teach all nations baptizing them , is meant of men at years onely , and not of infants , then he grants as much as we desire , and confesses that christ , in his commission to teach and baptize the nations , does not mean discipling and baptizing infants , but men , and if the commission to baptize extend not to infants , as the subject , then what warrant to baptize them ? secondly if that place be meant of men onely , and not of infants , then mr. ba. was well busied the while , when he brings that very place in the very front of his plain scripture proofs , for his infant membership and baptism , its ill stumbling at the very threshold . but i shall not multiply , nor improve as mr. ba. hath done to the utmost , but give one argument more against infant membership , and so come to the other member viz. if all that can be said in proof of the visible church-membership of infants may be disproved as weak , and inconsequent utterly to that purpose , then sure there is enough , if one would stand upon it , to be brought against it . but all that is said by mr. ba. in his two dozen of arguments , who improves himself to the utmost to say as much as can be said in proof of the visible church membership of infants , is well nigh already , and will be altogether by and by disproved as weak and inconsequent . ergo there must needs be enough against it : for contradictoriorum uno negato statuitur , probatur alterum . if all , that can be said on one side to the proof of this that infants ought to be members of the visible church , will not avail to evince that to be the truth , then that infants ought not to be members of the visible church of christ is a thing will prove it self well enough . and so i have done with one member of my proposition , that i may say a little also to the other , which is this viz. though no infants have right in infancy to be baptized and joined to the visible church , as i have already proved , yet all infants in their infancy are in a visible state of salvation . mr. ba. finds out or rather fancies to himself certain grounds whereupon to hope , that some dying infants are saved viz. some of the dying infants of the faithful , as in opposition to all the dying infants of the wicked , i say some of them , for he dares not say p. . that his own grounds yield a certainty , though a probability , of the salvation of all such neither , so doth he narrow up the grace of god to that innocent age of infancy , for all he would seem so merciful as to plead its cause against those cruel conceits which he conceives are conceived of it amongst us , yet he finds no good ground whereupon to hope the salvation of the dying infant of any godly man , but the same on which he conceives them of nececessity to that salvation to have also a right to membership in the visible church , but such a necessary dependance of them each on other , that suppose one to be no member , at least in no visible right to membership in the visible church , of that person , so dying , there can be harboured no hope at all of his salvation : but what if i can make it good from one of those very grounds of mr. baxters own bringing that there 's a ground to hope the salvation of one such dying infant , as of whom it is most palpably evident , that it was neither actually a member of the visible church before it died , nor so much as in any visible right to membership in the visible church if it had lived ? mr. ba. will then i hope let go his wretched conceit of a necessity of dying infants membership in order to our having hopes of their salvation . and in order to the making good of this , i instance in the very same child , which himself brings in as his fifth ground page . and alludes to , as his example of the contrary viz. the child that david had by bathsheba , while she was yet the wife vriah , of whom i testifie the very same that mr. bax. does viz. that davids comforting himself concerning his dead child , because he should go to the child , but the child not return to him , was an evident argument that david was confident that that child of his should not be damned , and yet he could not hope so upon any such account as his childs dying a member of the visible church , for the child never lived so much as to the th day , nor to be circumcised , and thereby entred into the visible church , for its plain sam. . . that it died on the th . and if mr. ba. say it was a member de jure , though not de facto i. e. in a right to have been a member had it lived , i deny that with as much confidence as the other , for a bastard was not to be admitted into the congregation of the lord unto the tenth generation , and its evident that that child was a bastard . i conclude therefore contrary to that round mr. ba. runs about in like a horse in a mill , making a necessary concatenation between being in visible right to church-membership , and in a visible state of salvation , proving the one by the other , concluding sometimes , that infants of believers are children of the gospel promise , & so visibly in a state of salvation , & therfore they must be baptized and in churcht , or else they could not , and others may not , sometimes that infants of believers are in visible right to be admitted into the visible church , and therefore we may have sound ground to hope their salvation , so dying , as denying their right to membership we could not have , and of other infants we cannot , i conclude i say that there may be sound ground whereon to hope the salvation of some dying infants , that dye without actual membership in the congregation , or visible church of christ , and without any right to it also in their infancy had they lived longer . and if we may hope well of some infants that dy without membership , and without right to it also , i know not why we may not hope the like of all , for all mr. baxs . impropriating the unlimited and boundlesse grace of god , and ingrossing all hope of the salvation of dying infants , to the dying infants of none but faithful parents , specially considering , besides what grounds more of my own i shall add in proof of it by and by , two more at least of mr. baxters own grounds whereon to hope the salvation of believers infants are grounds , whereon to hope the salvation of other dying infants as well as them , the scriptures he refers to for them speaking , if of infants at all , then of the whole species , of the whole kind of that stature called infants , and not of infants of one kind more then another . for first whereas his th ground for the salvation of believers dying infants , and of being without any fear of their damnation is this viz. because it is said psal. . . . . children are the heritage of the lord , and the fruit of the womb his reward &c. if that be spoken of infants at all , as it seems rather to be spoken of children that are grown up , that are the strength of their father and his family , it is surely spoken of all infants as well as some , and he that particularizes that indefinit term of children , and the fruit of the womb , where ever the scriture speaks hopefully of such , so as to understand it universally to expresse , and sound forth no more then those individualls viz. the seed of believing parents ( and yet thus mr. b i. muzzles up all such scriptures , and makes them sound no more then he would have them ) doth little lesse then force the word to his own fancy . secondly , whereas his th ground is from mat. . . where he argues thus , if little ones have their angels beholding the face of god in heaven then they shall be saved , for that is a mercy peculiar to the people of god. i argue that if little ones litterally taken ( i. e. if infants be there meant , as he saies , but never shewes , they are ( saving per alios and not per se ) then surely all infants as well as some , for he speaks not there of the little ones of believing parents in special , but of what kind of little ones soever he speaks , he speaks of that kind of little ones in general without exception , whether it be of infants , or of his disciples , and if yet it must needs be understood of infants onely , that they shall be saved , it is understood universally of them , and so much mr. ba. might have seen , and would have said had he consulted the . verse , but just below where it is thus said of all little ones that are lost , and so of all as well as some , viz. it is not the will of your heavenly father that one of these little ones shall perish . and sith mr. b. so suches it out below p. . &c. from mark . . . saying that of such is the kingdome of heaven must needs be meant , viz. by kingdome of heaven salvation , which i grant , and by such ( as i le grant also at this time however , sith thence i shall have another argument ad hominem to give hope by of the salvation of all dying infants ) not such as are like infants , but infants themselves , and that not of those individuals onely that were then brought , which whether they were children of believing parents or no too is more then mr. b. ere can demonstrate , there being many that came to christ for healing of themselves or theirs , as t is most evident that these did , of whom not more then one of ten were as they should be , for of leapets clensed where were the nine ? i say not of those individuals onely , but of the very species of infants , yea how oft ore and ore and ore again does he inculcate this upon us in that place , saying , it was the species of infants , the very species , infants in specie , and not those individuals , whom christ saies the kingdome of heaven , i. e. salvation doth belong to , i appeal to mr. bs. own conscience , whether there be not out of his own mouth a strong argument of hope , if not of assurance from christ himself that the whole species of infants , so dying , i. e. all infants , and not some onely shall be saved : for the ●pecies of infants expresses not some infants onely but all infants , or infants quâ tales , so that quatenus ipsum evermore including de omni , whatever belongs to infants inspecie i. e. to the kind or to infants as such belongs to all infants , quod convenit homini , purely qua est homo , convenit omni homini and so what ever belongs to any thing , as t is such , belongs also to all that is such . but mr. b. teaches us the truth in this , that the kingdome of heaven and salvation belongs by revelation from christ himself to infants , not in individuo onely , i. e. not to those infants onely that were then brought to christ , nor any other , but to the kind , to infants in specie i. e. all infants as infants , therefore the kingdome of heaven and salvation belongs to them all , and so did that kind of comming to christs person , while he was on earth , with infants , not for , nor by baptism , but for healing , belong to all infants that needed it as well as some , that were then on earth , as comming to christ with infants by prayer to him to help and heal them , in whatever malady , since his person is absent , belongs to all infants in the world , and not to believers infants onely ; and yet not baptism , and a standing in fellowship in the visible church , for they indeed are not fit for fellowship . therefore though mr. ba. contracts the grace of god to infants , as concerning their everlasting salvation into little a little corner , yea good lord how few dying infants does he hope shal be saved , that hath hope of none but of some i. e. believers infants , which are but one of many , and also not of all , but onely some of them ? yet ( to conclude this in a way of resemblance to mr. bs. conclusion of his argument from mark . p. . ) i blesse the lord jesus christ king of the church , though he gave no order to baptize , and in church infants here on earth yet for having a greater tendernesse towards the eternal state of all dying infants , then mr. b. is yet aware of , and towards all that live to years such a tendernesse as to invite them to himself universally , and bid them wel-come , and so great a care to inform his church in his word and gospel concerning his good will to all men , and to all infants also in that particular , so as to speak it so plainly , that plain minded men , that are not minded never to change their minds , as i hope mr. b. is not , may well see his mind in this case , even as if he had therefore done this , because he foresaw that some would arise so carnally , and so cruely conceited , as to suppose it impossible to be , and but in vain to hope it almost , that gods saving mercy should extend to any more dying infants then those few , and not all those few neither , of their own : and for my part i gladly accept christs information , and submit to his discovery , let them resist it that dare . and lastly , one more argument of hope that i have within my self that all dying infants must needs be saved , is this yet , because i could never find since i lookt for it , as also none ever shall that look not without their eyes , what should , nor what ( save the priesthoods divine kind of doctrine ) does damn them , i mean any of them so dying , any more then one of them . first as for sin , which onely damnes , i know none they have of their own , and to say that any infant dyes eternally for theiniquity of his father only , makes the word of god , which is truth it self , no better then a flat falsehood to me , who read in ieremy . . . & ezek. . . . . . & deut. . . & kings . . that the waies of god who requires it strictly of man , not to put the children to death for the sins of the father , but every man only for his own sin , are so equal , for all the false accusation of him by the wicked jewes , that seeing he both saies , and also swears it , that men shall never have occasion to say , the childs teeth are edged by the grapes the father only hath eaten , and in way of complaint for injustice , doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father ? but that every soul that dies shall dy for his own iniquity onely , and that individual soul onely that sinneth shall dy , i. e. eternally , for temporally t is true we all dy in adam , as far as a to temporal death , god may , and often doth visit the sins of the father on the children to the third and fourth generation of such as hate him not onely when children inherit , so as to imitate their fathers hatred of god , in which case only t is a punishment to those children , but also on infants , so as to take them out of the world with the fathers : as in the case of dathan and abiram , amaleck , hittites , amorites &c. yea sodom and gomorrah , and the old world , on which for ensamples sake to them that in after times should live ungodly , the flood , and the fire fell , not onely temporal but eternal to the adult ones that gave themselves over to fornication and followed strange flesh , though but temporal only to infants , who neither lived ungodly , nor gave themselves over to fornication as the other did , and therefore though passing hence with the rest to a temporal death by that fire , yet are not set forth as an ensample with the rest to all that should live ungodly , by suffering the vengeance of eternal fire pet. . . iude . but the same temporal death that may be in fury to one , as t is a passage to worse , may be a mercy to another , and so to those infants a passage from worse to better , as good iosiah was slain in battell , as well as wicked ahab , and that for going on his own head to war as well he , yet was it in respect of that eternall state that followed , as well for him , as ill for ahab . sith therefore it s said so plainly the son shall not die for the iniquity of the father , and yet temporally they may be taken away with the father , it must needs be meant that eternally none die , nor lye for ever under wrath for no more then meerly the fathers fault , whereupon all dying infants having no trangression of their own , cannot be damned for their own , nor yet for their father adams transgression , and so are all , as well as those of believers , in a visible state of salvation , and while they live infants , unlesse hereafter they reject it , as esau did the land of canaan , in visible right to so dying to the heavenly canaan . yea many thanks to my ashford opposites for that clause of their pamphlet , which is assistant to me almost at all assaies , christian charity it self , which doth presumere unumquemque bonum , nisi constet de malo , constrains us to hope all things , believe all things concerning the salvation of dying infants , and of all infants as well as some , specially since these , more then those , i. e. the infants of unbelievers more then of believers , have not committed any actual sin , wherby to deserve to be exempted from the general state of little infants declared in scripture viz. that of such is the kingdome of heaven . secondly as for righteousnesse there 's enough in christ to take away , it being imputed , what ever unrighteousnesse is imputed for adams sin , and why that righteousnesse should not be imputed , if the scripture had not said it so plainly as it does rom. . cor. . . . cor. . . to all poor dying innocent infants as well as some , i cannot imagine , unlesse you say not god the fathers love to all , but man the fathers faith , is that thing that must save some of those infants of believers , that are savd , by interesting that fruit of his body in the righteousnesse of christ , as well as himself , for the taking away the sin of his soul , which faith a father wanting , the child shall perish for ever in default out , and yet be in no fault in the world about it : alas poor infants indeed , that descend from such parents as believe not , if it be so , that that the fathers faith onely does interest the infant in christ , their forefather , the first adam by his sin unawares to them damned them say they , and say i , if it did , there 's righteousnesse enough in the heavenly father , and the second adam to save them , but because not they themselves , for they have no more ability so to do then a new born infant hath to dresse its naked body , but their fathers put it not on by faith for themselves , and theirs , which if the dying infants might live to years , as christ said of sodom , they happily would do , therefore millions of these poor innocents must perish : so then belike it is thus , and this is the covenant of the gospel , the fathers faith saves him , and all his dying infants , and the fathers sin of unbelief damnes for ever not himself onely , but all his dying infants also . all infants that are damned then , are damned through the fault of two unhappy fathers , a remote father for sinning , and and immediate father for not believing , between which two the love of the heavenly father cannot come at them : a wise man may spend all he hath with looking , but never find such as this in all the scripture : earthly inheritances are oft stated , and removed to and from posterity for fathers faith , and faults , as all abrahams posterity by isaac and iacob did enjoy canaan , and esaus lost it , but the eternal inheritance is neither won nor lost by the children , through the faith or unbelief of the parents : and besides if adams sin , though a remote parent , doth so damnifie all infants , that the righteousnesse of christ cannot save them , without the fathers faith , me thinks he being their great grand father , adams faith should recover him and all his , at least from that guilt his sin brought upon them ; by interessing them in christs righteousnesse , as well as his single unbelief at first destroyed them , if any fathers faith shall entitle his infants to salvation ; or else god seems not to be so prone to mercy as severity , yea indeed he that saies god is not more prone to severity then to mercy , and shewes it no other way , as to his dealing with innocent infants , then by saying he saves no more dying of infants then those few , i. e. some of the dying infants of believers , and from the mothers womb damns eternally all the rest , may say over that his creed in my hearing times and ten , before i shall learn to believe it after him once . thirdly , as to threatnings of damnation i find none at all to infants in their ininfancy , from one end of the book of god to the other , but all that ever is spoken as concerning eternal wrath , the second death , everlasting damnation , the lake of fire , is declared as the portion of those onely that do , and do not that , which was never at all , much lesse in order to salvation , and on pain of eternal fire enjoined by infants either to be done , or forborn : yea this is the condemnation , and nothing else that i know of , that light more or lesse comes to persons , and they love darknesse more then light because their deeds are evil , those that christ speaks nothing at all to , as he does to heathens themselves rom. . rom. . but not to infants , that yet know not the right hand from the left , much lesse either good or evil , they have not sin , for sin is the transgression of that law , that is lent us to live by , whether a law within onely , or without also rom. . but when he hath spoken and they obey not , when they know god , and glorify him not as god , then they are without excuse , and have no cloak at all for their sin : and the word he hath spoken to every one , being rejected that same word shall judge him at the last day . i find it said no whoremonger , fornicato● &c. no actual impenitent sinner shall ●ver enter , or hath any inheritance at all , but not no unbelievers dying infants in the kingdome of god or of christ ; and that the lord shall come in flaming fire taking vengeance on all them that know not god , and obey not the gospel of christ &c. and yet on no dying infants , though they neither know him , nor obey him , for if he should then believers infants should therefore to the pot as well as others , as who in infancy obey no more then their fellows ; that the fearful and unbelieving , and dogs , and socerers , and murderers , and all liars &c. but not hars dying infants , shall have their portion in the lake of fire burning with brimstone , which is the second death ; and that the unprofitable servant , that traded not with his talent , and not infants , that in infancy have no talent to trade with , shall be cast into utter darknesse ; that those on whom christ called , and they would not hear , and to whom he stretched out his hands , and they regarded him not , and would none of christs councel nor reproof , shall call on him at that day and not be heard , and not infants on whom he never called ; that the lord added to the church dayly such men and women act. . not at all such infants , as should be saved ; that he that believeth not the gospel shall be damned , but not infants to whom he never preached ; that it shall be said to the wicked , go ye cursed into into everlasting fire , for i was hungry and you fed me not &c. among which , if there were any that died infants , they might justly reply indeed , as no wicked men at years can do , lord when saw we thee in distresse , and neglected thee , and did not come and minister unto thee ? in a word the whole body of the new testament or covenant in the promissory , praeceptory , and minatory parts of it ( saving some two or three such gentle touches about infants , as those above named , whereby we may have hopes that none of them dying such , are for ever lost ) was written and given to , and concerning men and women , and not infants , to declare unto them the way of everlasting salvation , and in what wayes god would and would not accept of them , and he that with an unprejudiced spirit observes all this will trouble himself no more about his infants to in church and baptize them for remission of sins , which is the prime use of baptism to sinners , and utterly lost when di●penst to infants that have not sins , nor indeed to do more then instruct them as they grow up , and pray for them while they live infants , and hope well of them if they dy in their minority : but it pitties my heart for them to see what moyl and toil the priests create to themselves and the people , and what much ado they make about their poor infants , even much more then about themselves . as for iacobs being lovd before he was born ( he means in contradistinction to esau ) wch is mr. bs. tenth ground of hope that believers infants are from the womb in a hopeful way , i suppose he takes it to be so declared , but is miserably mistaken , if he think the ninth of the romans saies so , for t is true the elder shall serve the younger , which relates to the posterity of those two , and not their persons ( for esau was mostly jacobs lord ) was said before they were born by god , who foreseeing it might easily foretell how it should be and did so too , but for the words iacob have i loved , esau have i hated , as they also were spoken of the two nations , that came out of their loines viz. the edomites and israelites , and that not without respect to edoms being the border of wickednesse , ●o far was it from being spoken of them before they were born , that t was hundreds of years after they were dead and rotten , mal. . but if it were just as mr. b. understands it , that before they were born , and without any respect to their personal rebellion , and obedience in time it had been said iacob have i loved , esau have i hated , would it prove that article in mr. bs. creed that god hath promised to be merciful to godly mens seed in general , in contradistinction to the seed of the wicked ? in no wise , i suppose , since as godly as isaac was , even one of his sons was hated from the womb ; if mr. b. conceit were true , aswel as the other of them from the womb beloved : but surely had not esau sinned and set so light by the heavenly blessing , he had not lost it , much less if he had dyed from the womb . fourthly as for the universallity of redemption which is by jesus christs dying , as mr. ba. saies t●uely , for all , for every man , for the sins of the whole world , which he had meant to have drawn an argument from , but did not , he might easily have drawn one that would have served my turn in this place , viz. to have proved that very age , even the whole species of infants to be savd by christ from wrath and ruine , except they live to reject his grace afresh , as in infancy they do not , but it utterly overthrowes his hopes by the halves of infants , for it is both a good ground , and as good a ground , whereon to hope the redemption from wrath to come of every dying infant , as of any one , and lastly to conclude my answer to this argument of mr. b. which i have insisted the longer on , in much hope of helping him to a better hope of all dying infants , that neither are , nor are to be added to the visible church , whereas i was once set upon by a gentleman with this objection , who if ever this book came to his hands , and this passage to his eye , will remember it , though i forbear to name him . viz. obj. if we may be assured of the salvation of all our dying infants , we may then in love to them knock them on the head in their infancy , and so be sure to prevent their perishing by condemnation . i intreat that gentleman to beware of so much as saying , that we may do such gross evil that so great good may come thereof , least his damnation for it be just , and then what little benefit will accrue to him all men may judge , that to save his infant damnes himself . there 's but four arguments of m.bs. behind brought in proof of the right of membership to infants whereof two , viz. his th and th are the one from cor. . . the other from mark. . . . . two scriptures that i have talkt on so much in the book above , and given the genuine sense of , that i shall but tautologize to speak particularly to them again , seeing i see nothing new taken notice of in them by mr b. but what is abundantly answered in effect above , where i have shewed the abrogation in christ of that birth holinesse he means , and the uncleannesse consequently opposite thereunto , so that there 's no man however born , though a barbarian , can be called , in opposition to others , as by birth holy , by nature a sinner in that ceremonial sense , from act . gal. . yea m.b. confesses p. . the common sense of holinesse was one and the same in all , i. e. priests and levites under the law &c. temple , altar , sacrifices , children of believers , and believing yoak fellowes viz. a separation to god , so then if that holinesse of priests , temple , &c. was ceremonial , so this is , and if that holinesse is abolished in all other things , why abiding onely the seed ? i have also proved that the other place , where it is not evident that the infants brought to christ were ever baptized by his disciples , or any other , doth more deeply disprove infan●s-baptism and membership , then all the places ever brought by mr. b. are capable to prove or make good either . yea as good a man might have said , as send me to those two places for infant-baptism , you may find it if you look in the bible . i le say no more therefore to them . his other two viz. the th and hare both as he confesses but probable , and and by and by will appear not to be so much ; his first is this . if an infant were head of the church then infants may be members . but christ an infant was head of the church , ergo. that cannot be half so much , as a probable argument , whose premises are neither of them true , yet such is the syllogism here brought by mr. b. both the propositions of which i deny , his consequence is true indeed , that infants may be members , if an infant were the head , i. e ▪ are capable out , supposing gods will that it should be so now in the gospel , which a man may suppose if he will , but shall never find to be so in his word ; nor does his curious crotchet out of irenaeus , that christ went through every age to sanctify it unto us , prove the other to be a truth , for there 's no truth at all in it self , yea t is falsum per falsius , for christ did not passe through every age of man , that he might sanctify that age , for he lived not to any old age here , though now he that was dead is alive again for evermore , for his life was soon cut off from the earth . and as concerning his headship in his infancy , i admire a man of wisedome should assert it , for to say nothing how little this agrees with that above page . where he saies t is disputable whether ever christ was a churchmember properly or no , ( as if the head , because the principal that rules the rest , were no member at all of the body ) t is evident to me that as man he had not any of his prerogatives settled actually upon him , till after he had purchased them by his death ; he was perfect first through sufferings heb. . . and after his death and resurrection he was made lord and christ acts. . and exalted highly above all phil. . and set far above all principality , and given to be head over all things to his church which is his body ephe. . ult . moreover to me there is as much force in it , if christ had been head of the church in his infancy , and much more then in mr. bs. to argue thus , if christ the head of the church , that was circumcised in his infancy , yet was not baptized till he came to years , then , though under the law the circumcised were circumcised in their infancy , yet under the gospel none are to be baptized till they come to years . his th runs thus . if the scripture frequently , and plainly tell us of the ceasing of circumcision , but never at all of the churchmembership of infants , then though circumcision be ceased , yet we are not to judge their membership to be ceased . but &c. therefore . this is so far from a demonstration , that it s not a topical but sophistical syllogism , in which there is fallacia homonomiae , or ambiguity in the middle term viz. the scripture tells us , which may be taken for an expresse , or for an implicit telling , or having a word for a thing , yet one of his propositions will be false let him understand it how he will , for if by the scripture telling us , and having a word for it , he means an expresse telling of the cessation of membership in totidem verbis , a syllabical word given out of that particular by name , then his consequence is false , for it follows not because there is not an expresse particular prohibition in the new testament for the cessation of things , that were under the old , therefore they are not ceased , for so we shall make most of the types and ceremonies , among which infant membership was one , as i have shewed , to remain in force still as well as that , as the dedication of the first born , and many others , the cessation of which is not so syllabically spoken of . but if he mean an implicit prohibition , or word for the cessation of churchmembersh●p of infants , which is enough , then there is prohibition enough , yea the very command for the cessation of circumcision of infants any more act. . . vertually is a command to cease inchurching of infants , for the very end and intent of circumcision was the inchurching of infants thereby , which thing was formally done then by circumcision , besides circumcision ceasing , the whole law ceased with it , the whole of which he was a debtor to keep that was circumcised , also heb. . . t is sayd summarily thus viz. that the priesthood i. e. of that testament being changed , there must be of necessity a change also of the law . and so i have done with all his arguments for the church-membership of infants , which is the second medium , and next to that of discipleship , by which he would prove but cannot , infant baptism . his third medium which he onely names , and handles not , therefore i shall do the like in speaking to it , is drawn from the duty of parents to engage their infants solemnly to god in covenant , and runs thus viz. if it be the duty of christian parents solemnly to devote their children to god in covenant , then they ought to do it in baptism , but &c. therefore . he proves his minor from the practise of the old testament , from the duty of parents then , from which time , as to that particular of dedicating , and solemn engaging of their children , it will not follow to our doing the like in all respects now as they did , for then we must thus dedicate our first born , and that doth of man and beast . his consequence is also false of his major proposition , for i may devote my children in a gospel sense to god according to my duty , i mean ingage my self to the lord to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the lord , and also devote them to him in prayer , i. e. give them up to him as his right , and to him to teach by his word , and his spirit , when they come to years , and sundry other wayes , and yet no necessity of doing any of this in baptism . but i shall make this as short as he does himself , and gather up the sum of what he hath said viz. infants are disciples , visible church-members , and to be solemnly engaged to god in covenant as a holy seed &c. therefore are to be baptized , denying now the consequence , as to him , as i did the antecedent before , which i have been all this while in disproving . for , ad hominem , so long as he argues for baptism to be after the manner of circumcision , the consequence will not follow , if this were as true as t is false , that infants are now disciples , church-members , and a holy seed , and in covenant , that therefore they must be baptized ; for women under the covenant whereof circumcision was a sign , were both disciples , and visible church-members , and a holy people in the sense of the covenant , and dedicated to god in covenant as well as males , and yet not then circumcised , and why ? viz. for want of a commission to do it , and the like i say now of infants if they were , as t will never be proved while the world stands , that they are disciples , in right to visible membership , and holy in his sense , and to be ingaged &c. yet of necessity it followes not they must be baptized , unlesse there be some command or commission for it , which no man ever shall find in the word of christ ; all the rest of his arguments wherein he undertakes to disprove the practise of baptizing naked , and baptizing children of christians of age , as i have shewed above , are ignoratio elenchi a dispute besides our practise , for we do not so , therefore though i see some grosse absurdity in them all , yet i le meddle no more with them here . thus i have done with both that subject of rantizing , which partly at the motion of you ashford disputants i was ingaged in at the end of your review , and partly by that meer demi-reformation that is made in this point of baptism by a party of men in lincolnshire , and elsewhere , ( of whom i suppose there are several congregations ) who having long since discovered the true way of baptism , as to the subject , viz. that professing believers onely , and not any infants are to be baptized , but remaining ignorant of the true way and form of administration of that ordinance are fallen into a frivolous way of sprinkling believers , which to do is as much no baptism at all , as to dip infants in no baptism of christs ordaining : which people , for whose sakes as well as others i write this , will be perswaded i hope in time to be , as to the outward form , not almost onely , but altogether christians , and rest no longer in that meer midway mongril reformation . i have done also with this book of mr. baxs for infant baptism , the weak arguments of which for it were enough , if i had no more ▪ to convince me of the error of it , & to make me doubt of it ▪ & renounce it , even as mr. ba. himself saies he had like to have done once , when he saw the weak arguments of others for it , which had he done , he had done no more then what is his duty to do now , and in order to gods glory though it were as much to his own shame , as it will be rather for his honour , to deny himself , and imbrace the truth as t is in jesus , i hope he may do yet in due time , if he do not shut his eyes against the gospel , because i find him saying and uns●ying again what he said before he had well studied it p. . and he is out in print for infant baptsm , and against the true baptism , for all his professions of ●o serious search after it , before he had well studied it to the bottom : if he do not recant his error , i am confident some of the people will , that have been deluded by him , and out of love to the lord jesus , that loved them as a priest , and washed them from sin , in his own blood , and as a prophet , and a king requires them so to do , arise and be baptized , as they ought , washing away their sins calling on the name of the lord. thus my friends and you my ashford antagonists , you have my mind amongst you in this matter , if any one of you answer , and i have satisfaction from him to the contrary , he shall hear of my recantation , if i have not , he shall see it by my silence , for i le never lose so much time , as i have done by the bare writing of this , from preaching to poor ignorant creatures the free love and rich grace of god in christ to all that obey him in truth , and as i see i must , if i meddle more at the presse with this subject . anti-ranterism christndom new christn'd , or christs ordinances continuing till christs second coming in a small system , wherein are some few reasons rendred for the now raising of water baptism into its right way of administration , as to the form and subject , and for the remaining of both it , and other ordinances in their primitive right , till the return of christ iesus . for as much as i have been several times sollicited by several persons both by word of mouth and otherwise a , to give out unto them the grounds , ends and arguments in writing of my continuance in the practise of water baptism , and other ordinances of christ , as laying on of hands , prayer , breaking of bread , church fellowship &c. according as the churches of christ in the primitive ages of the gospel did , and for that i find it an easelesse and well nigh an endlesse businesse to write the same things in private letters , about one particular subject , to every of those particular persons , that may successively desire it , i have therefore thought good ( being called to the presse by sundry challenges of the priesthood , and more specially by not only the publication of that abusive pamphlet concerning the ashford-disputation for infant-baptism , but also their professed expectation , that i should give some answer , or give the cause ) to inser● here this ensuing account of my own reasons , for the right of our remaining in the use of ordinances till the return of christ , and animadversions of what little reason the ranter hath to run from them , and redeem himself from that bondage , which he deems to be in the observation of them , before the time appointed , much more to run beyond the bounds of modesty and all good manners also , as not all , but many , if not most of those do first , or last , who despise any of the ord●nances of the lord jesus : and herein as i shall be plain , using no other form , method and order then what the lord gives into me as i write , so i must be brief , the foregoing part of this volume having risen already unawares to a far greater magnitude then was meant to the whole , when i first cast the bulk of it in my mind , and there remaining also something yet to speak , and i know not well how much , to the priests concerning themselves , in way of return to the last piece of that pedobaptistical pamphlet which was pu● forth by who knowes ? or rather by who knows not whom ? in order to the plainer disquisition of the truth in this question viz. whether the ordinances of christ , that were in use of old , are of right to be practised still ? as there are four services , then in use , the necessary use of which is now denied viz. baptism in water , laying on of hands , breaking of bread , and church-fellowship , so i shall addresse my self to prove the practise of these four severally to stand , even de jure till the second coming of christ , which is yet to come . and because baptism in water , though most strenuously denyed by many to be so much as lawfull to be either dispensed , or submitted to , and by many even of those that have submitted to it to be necessary , or any other then a matter of indifferency , is yet the first in order to be practised , and that without , or before which we are not once to meddle with the other , i therfore propound it as the first in order to be proved , and in order to the proof of at least the lawfulnesse thereof against such as say its sinful ( for this will be included in the other ) i shall by the help of god prove a necessity of it , against such as judge it needlesse or superfluous , and by several scriptures shew it to be such a service , the present performance of which is so far from being sinful , that it is no lesse then sin and rebellion against christ himself to leave it unperformed . the scripture which i shall most directly make use of to this purpose , and lay as the very basis , and foundation of this businesse , and make as a certain cardinal topick ●lace from whence to argue , and whether to reduce all the rest , which i shall more co●laterally handle , is mat. . . . . all power is given &c. in which place these things chiefly are observable as subservient to the proof of the point in hand . first , we find christ pleading that absolute power , which was given him by the father to be the soveraign lord , and supream lawgiver to the whole world thorowout all nations and generations of it from thenceforth even to the end ; in these words viz. all power is given unto me both in heaven and in earth i. e. i am he to whom this prerogative is granted to give out to all men what laws and rules they shall be guided , and governd by , what wayes they must walk in in order to that eternal salvation , which as a priest i have purchased them to by my own blood , if ever they mean to attain it , i am that prophet , a which the lord hath raised up unto all people now , instead of moses , who was the faithful giver out of gods will , mind , or testament to israel of old , whose voice all must now hearken to in all things , what ever i say unto them , and whoever harkneth not to me , shall be cut off from among the people : b behold god hath given me for a witnesse to the people , a leader and commander unto the people . secondly , after he had thus shewed his authority , and commission from god to be the only lawgiver , whereby to summnon the sons of men to so much the stricter attention to him , he next begins to act according thereunto , to act like him self , to make out his mind to his disciples concerning them and all men most expressely , and plainly about this matter of water baptism , and to give order to them both when , and to whom , both in what time and to what subjects they should dispense it , and likewise both how , and for how long he would have the nations ( as by command from himself , commissionating his disciples so to teach them ) to practise the same dispensation of water baptism ; in the two following verses . going out therefore teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , son and holy spirit , teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you , and ●o i am with you alwaies even to the end of the world . where note first in general three things . first , that he gives order to his disciples to teach the nations , and baptize them in water in his name ver . . going out teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father , son and holy spirit . secondly , that whatever order is given out by christ to his disciples , concerning this businesse of water baptism , as to the order of its administration , and the term of its continuance , the very same and no other doth christen join his disciples to give out to the disciples , ●hat should be successively in all nations , to be observed as his will concerning them v. . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you . thirdly , that what ever he gives out as his will concerning both them and the disciples in the nations that they should make , he gives out as his standing will and testament to them , and their standing duty to him in all ages of the world as well as that , even to the very end thereof , in these words v. . and lo i am with you alwaies i. e. in the observation of these things i command you , to the end of the world . secondly more particularly yet , let it be observed what arguments in particular do most naturaly arise hence in proof of the continuance of water baptism by comcommand from christ to this very day , and that from several clauses and passages of this scripture severally considered . first from these words go ye out therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name &c. it is very evident to the utter confutation not onely of those who are for infant baptism , as is shewed above , but also of those that are now for no water baptism at all , that our lord christ expressely enjoines these two things , viz . that all those whom his disciples presume to baptize in his name shall be first taught by them or made disciples , i. e. preached to or instructed in the gospel till they learn and believe it . * . that all those whom his disciples do teach till they have learnt the gospell , or by preaching to them have converted to faith in his name shall in his name like wise be baptized , so inseperable hath christ made these two viz. discipling and baptizing , believing and baptizing in his will and testament to us , that as he would have no creature in the nations be baptized without precedent teaching and believing , so he would have no creature that is instructed till he believes to go unbaptized ; whereupon in one and the same word of command he requires both , neither can any one abstract either from the other ( without such violation to the will and testament of christ , confirmd by his blood , which wo be to that man , or angel that disanulleth in the least particular ) so as to take upon him to give a toleration to persons either to be baptized before believing , or to content themselves with belief only without baptism . but first as expresse as t is the mind of christ that one of these should be done so expresse it is that the other should be done , and each in its proper order . secondly , as clear as it is that these are commanded to be done by the very persons he then spake to viz that they should teach and baptize , so clear it is that the very same is commanded to be done in all nations , and among all people by such persons as should be discipled by them in these words v. ● . teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever i have commanded you . thirdly , and as long as t was his mind the one should be used viz. teaching and believing , so long t was his mind that the other should continue , viz. baptizing and being baptized , and that was that they should all abide in force to the very end of the world . whence more formally we may argue thus , viz. what christ hath conjoined man must not seperate . but christ hath conjoined our discipling of persons , and baptizing them , as a standing course to the end of the world , as matth. . , , . plainly shews , ergo man must not seperate these two . in this very manner and form of words , word for word ( little heeding how while he declines the gulf of no-baptism , he runs against the rock , and makes shipwrack of his infant baptism by the shift , and at once breaks the neck of all his arguments for it ) doth mr. baxter argue against these new no-baptists in p. . of his plain scripture-lesse proofs for infants church-membership and baptism : whereby verily as he wounds both himself to death , and all those that together with him do plead for the baptizing of such subjects , as they never teach viz. infants whom themselves must needs acknowledge to be uncapable of conversion by their instruction , so all those likewise that plead for the teaching of all nations still , and preaching of the gosel to every creature , and yet plead against any more baptizing of them in water , who are converted to the faith by preaching ; who tear the testament of the lord christ to pieces , and take what of it will serve their own easie turnes , and reject what of it is more tedious to the flesh , as the way of outward ordinances is , specially that ordinance of water baptism , as a businesse long since abolished and out of date , as being ended almost as soon as instituted , as bondage , as meer bodily exercise , that profiteth little or nothing , as but indifferent at most , and so may be done , and yet as well be let alone , as a low weak thing , as a foolish matter to make such ado about , as needlesse for every one to submit to or make use of , as that which some can live as well without as with &c. as if christ jesus was a fool ( for so all those do say in figures , though not in words at length ) to invent such foolish instruments , to appoint such simple tooles to be used in his house , such earthen vessels , such vessels as are not honourable enough , nor fit in their conceit for the masters use , or for any thing but to be thrown aside , as out of date , and not worthy to be now meddled with any more : to which high notionists , who camaelion like live up aloft , and yet feed on nothing but the meer air of their own high flown fancies , i must needs say thus much here , before i come to the other argument viz. that as wise and strong as they reckon upon themselves to be , so that they can live to god and thrive toward salvation as well without baptism , or any other ordinance as those that use it , and as poor pieces of business as they deem these to be , and unworthy of their condescension to them , as smal , despised , homely and earthen as they are in their eyes , d yet they are of such precious and heavenly consequence as may well challenge a right of continuance to the end , yea they are no lesse then the power of god e to salvation to every one that believeth , the wisdom of god in a mystery ; f yea this foolish thing of god is wiser then man , and this weak thing of god is stronger then man i. e. then all the gawdy formes , and new wayes of mans tradition , whereby the rantizer , or those non-entities , and new-nowayes of mans invention , whereby the ranter hath made void the commands of king jesus , and howbeit they count it their spirituallity , yet i cannot but count it their naturallity , their carnality to call any of the ordinances of christ , even that which may seem to them the most emp●y ( for here 's the mystery of christ giving out heavenly treasure in earthen vessels ) i say to call those lowness , weaknesse , unprofitablenesse , foolishnesse . as many as christ commanded to be taught , preacht to , and made disciples , are commanded when discipled to be baptized in water in the name of the father , son and holy spirit , but christ commanded all nations , even every creature therein , that is capable thereof , to be taught , preacht to , and discipled . ergo , all nations , even every creature , none excepted , so soon as discipled , are commanded to be baptized , &c. the first proposition is most undeniably evident , for teaching and baptizing are both concluded here under ●he and the very same numerical command , and both instituted here de novo as parts of the will and testament of christ in one and the same word of institution , and both enjoined to be used to one and the same subject viz. all nations , every creature , therefore if every creature as far as capable to be preacht to by us , and we are capable to preach to him , is to be taught , as is expressely asserted not onely in the minor but in the texts themselves , then it must needs follow that every creature , after he is preacht to and converted to the faith by our instruction , is to be baptized , and that no creature is exempted or excused from being baptized , any more then he is from being taught and discipled , no not one , and consequently that baptism is not a meere matter of liberty , and indiffe●ency that may ad placitum be done by us , or let alone , but a matter of absolute duty , of positive praecep● , and necessitate precepti ( and therefore how far forth necessitate medu ad salutem is worth examining ) a matter of necessity if not of equall necessity with that of repenting and believing , for if it be his voice and command equally with the other ( and we see t is in one and the same place , and phrase given out as his will together with the other ) then why it should not be equally obeyed , and that sub paena , fith he is that prophet whom god hath now raised up unto us , whose voice whoever harkneth not to in all things whatsoever he saith , shall be cut off from among his people , no man is able to give a solid reason , nor yet why any should shun to declare it , it being a a part of that whole councel of god , which the apostle paul durst not decline to declare the whole of , f any more then to declare the doctrine of faith , repentance and obedience in other things ; yea and such a weighty part of that councel , and of such neer concernment , and great consequence unto us is baptism , that as it is said , even that despised dispensation of water baptism , to be from heaven g , and not of men , so they that own it are said to justifie god , and they that rej●ct it and refuse to submit to it are said to reject the councel of god against themselves . h and all the people that heard , and the publicans justified god , being baptized with the baptism of john , but the pharisees and lawyers rejected the councel of god against themselves being not baptized of him . and to prove it to be no matter of meer indifferency , but of duty to all believers , i argue yet further from the forenamed scripture thus . that which is positively commanded to be done , and dispenst to all persons , when once discipled , without exception of any , and without the least intimation of a dispensation from christ to any to omit it , is not a matter of meer indifferency , but of absolute duty among all those persons that are so discipled . but baptism is positively commanded to be dispensed to all persons when once discipled , without exception of any , and without the least intimation of a dispensation from christ to any to omit it , yea i may say as positively commanded to be dispensed to disciples as persons are commanded to be taught , discipled or to repent and believe the gospel , and that is so positively that he that knowing it to be christs will concerning him submits not to it , obeyes not christ in it , shall be damned . ergo baptism is no matter of meer indifferency but of absolute duty to all believers , or disciples . the major is most undeniable : the minor also is most expresse and obvious to every eye in the text it self , where it s said ( in one intire sentence by way of positive command concerning both these ) teach all nations baptizing them , i. e. all them that are taught and made disciples : and not onely in this scripture but also in several other , which i may alledge very subservient unto this as to the proof of the second proposition . the first whereof is act. . . and row why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized , and wash away thy sins , calling on the name of the lord , where it is not a little worth our noting in this case , that ananias doth not onely in one and the same sentence command paul to be baptized as strictly , as to call on the name of the lord , but also checks him in a certain round reproof , and angry expostulation , for his lingring , and delaying in this businesse , which he could not rationally have done if it had been , no neglect of duty in paul to be tardy to it , and a matter of no necessity , but of such indifferency that t was , without danger of incurring divine dispeasure , at pauls choice whether he would be baptized yea or no. the second is acts . . the first place , wherein we read of any practising according to that commission that christ gives out in mat. . that being indeed the first time of its beginning to be put in execution , by peter and the rest , who , being impowred so to do , in obedience thereunto went forth and preached repentance , faith , and baptism for remission of sins among all nations ( pro suo modulo ) beginning at ierusalem , as also they were required to do luke . . in which scripture ( i mean acts . ) to a people enquiring what they should do we find peter preaching positively thus viz. repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of iesus christ for remission of sins &c. where note that as he joines repentance and water baptism together , so in one and the same precept and word of command he enjoines them both together to be practised as the mind of christ , and that to every one then , and there present , that had not yet performed these services , without exempting any one of all those thousands he then spake to one jot more from the practise of baptism , then of repentance it self , which phrase , viz. repent , and be baptized every one of you &c. he could not warrantably have delivered himself in unto them in the name of christ , if he had not had clear commission from him by way of precept to impose baptism on all men as the mind of christ concerning them , and a duty to be practised by them all as well as repentance , without holding any one excused . the third is a●t . . . . can any man forbid water why these should not be baptized , which have received the holy spirit as well as we ? and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord. in which words i appeal to the conscience of every considerate man whether peter doth not , not onely command all those persons , and that in christs name , who were then and there converted , to be baptized in water , but also assert it to be beyond the power of the persons themselves , or any other to forbid it to be dispensed to them , or to g●an● them a dispensation to forbear it ? for when he queries who can ? he means no man can forbid water why these should not be baptized , ( for an interrogation affirmative concludes negatively ) whereupon ( nemine prohibente ) he commanded them ( and what h● commanded them was no lesse then their duty and the positive will of god concerning them ( for it s said to cornelius v. . that peter should tell him what he ought to do ) and also no lesse then what he was commissionated from christ to impose upon them , or else peter deluded them to whom he spake , for v. . he calls it the word of god sent to israel , and v. . they expected to hear not what he should please but what was commanded him of god ) he commanded them i say nemine contradicente in the lords name to be baptized ; which peter had no power to have done had it been by the lord himself left ad libitum unto them , yea had it been a thing so needlesse , of such liberty , and such no-necessity as many make it now adaies , i would by peters leave , had i been there , and been one of those that were so flatly commanded , have interposed , and forbid their bapt●sm , or at least my own , unlesse my flesh had had more mind to it then it had when i used it , and have pleaded , as our genteel spiritualists do against us , in this wise against peter , viz. you are much mistaken peter in this matter , you go about to urge it as an absolute duty and matter of necessity for us to be baptized in water , but alas it s no such matter , t is but an external dispensation , that may be done indeed if any be not satisfyed without it , but else may full as well be let alone ; we have the most substantiall baptism already , even that of the spirit , in which case the other is but meer superfluity to be used afterward , you cannot make it such an absolute command from god to us as you seem to do , and therefore whereas you ask who can forbid ? even i can forbid , why i should not be baptized as by positive precept from christ , seeing i have received the holy spirit as well as you . thus verily might one have cavilled against peters command then , as the ra●ter cavils against peters command now , which is not out of date , nor hath lost any of its validity sure with lying so long unpractised , if baptism in water were such an indifferent thing as t is now made by the new spirituallists , who little consider ( but i assure them wise men will weigh it well though they do not ) how little their logick and peters are like one another ( whereby it may be gathered what contrary spirits be , and they speak by ) for whereas he reasons thus , viz. these men have received the spirit , and have the most substantial baptism already , as well as those that are baptized in water , therefore who can forbid water why , or give any good reason to the contrary why these should not be baptized ? and accordingly commanded them so to be . they contrary wise reason thus . viz. these men have the spirit , the most substantial baptism already , as well as those that are baptized in water , therefore who can command it as necessary or give any sound reason why these should be baptized in water ? and accordingly forbid them so to be . but whether it be right in the sight of god to obey them foolishly forbidding it , as needlesse , at best but indifferency , or obey god by the mouth of peter commanding it universally to all men as their duty judge ye . t is clear therefore out of all these places that water baptism is so far from being sinfull that t is more then lawfull , more then indifferent , yea a matter of duty , and necessity , and such as it would become men to submit to as well as christ , who needed it not , as we do , if there were no other end , nor use of it then to fulfill all the righteousnesse of his law , the least of whose commandements whoever shall break , and teach men so , i. e. that they need not keep them , the same shall be least in the kingdom of heaven , but who so shall do ▪ and teach , the same shall be great in the kingdom of heaven g and to whom he that is faithful , though but in a little , is faithful in much , and he that is unfaithful in but a little is unfaithful in too much h , specially if that little be left us in way of command in his word as his positive will concerning us , and not as a matter of such indifferency as that it may , without ●in on either side , be done or not done , which we please , for such things onely and indeed are indifferent , of which we may by the word say as paul saies of meats and marriage viz. one believeth he may eat all things , another who is weak , eateth , herbs , one man esteemeth one day above another , another man esteemeth every day alike , let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind ; h so seek not a wife , yet if thou marry thou hast not sinned ; i but so we cannot say , nor do the apostles speak concerning baptism , viz. one man believeth that , having the spirit he may , but needs not be baptized , another , who is weak , must needs be baptized , let every one do as they see good , or are satisfied in this case , if they be baptized they have not sinned , and if they never be baptized they have not sinned &c. nay both christ and they speak here in way of peremptory determination of all persons to one point ; for whereas if baptism were a matter thus left to our minds , christ must have said to his disciples go teach all nations , every creature , baptizing as many of those you make disciples onely as judge it needful , as have a mind to it , not teaching them to observe that outward rite , any further then they please , and ananias to paul , and peter to those he preacht to act. . act. . must have said repent , and believe remission of sins , and call on the name of the lord , and if any of you be so mindeed , you may be baptized in water in token of christs death , burial and resurrection , but those that seem to themselves to be as well without it , may forbear , we have no power either to forbid it , or force them to it ; but they say clean otherwise viz. go teach all nations baptizing them , teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i command you , and now why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized , ●nd wash away thy sins &c. repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of iesus , &c. who can forbid water why these i. e. all these should not be baptized &c. all which if it do not import and expresse water baptism to be every ones duty , and not any ones liberty onely , then my understanding stands under a cloud of utter darknesse . yea verily t is very remarkable in my mind , and as well worth our heeding as any thing else in this case , that when paul , in his trembling and astonished condition , enquired of the lord what he would have him to do , the first thing and well nigh the onely thing that the word expresses that christ by the mouth of ananias declared to him as his will at that time , which was immediately after his conversion , was this duty of baptism : see act. . . and the trembling and astonished said lord what wilt thou have me to do ? and the lord said unto him arise and go into the city , and it shall be told thee what thou must do , which passage paul relating of himself act. . . expresses it thus viz. and i said what shall i do lord ? and the lord said to me arise , and go into damascus , and there it shall be told thee of all things , which are appointed for thee to do : now when he was come into damascus , ananias speaks thus to him v. . the god of our fathers hath chosen thee that thou should know his will. but what part of christs will doth the word say ananias there makes known to paul in that place , as that which at that time he must do , and was appointed that he should do ? no more then what is exprest in these words act. . v. . . thou shalt be his witnesse unto all men of that thou hast seen and heard . and now why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the lord. and as peter in his first preaching the praeceptory part of christs gospel to the jews , when they enquired what they should do ? and to the company at cornelius's house , and ananias in his to paul , when he quaeried what he should do ? did preach baptism as the will of christ concerning them as well as repentance , prayer and such like duties , so we shall find it was the constant course of all other primitive preachers in their preachings of christ to any people , to hold forth baptism to them , as that which was to be submitted to by them out of hand , after faith and repentance professed , and also the constant course of persons converted to the faith without delay to submit to that dispensation accordingly , for howbeit the very form of words , wherein they spake to them concerning baptism , and prest it upon believers as their duty , is not set down syllabically in every place , where its evident , yet most manifestly evident , and past all doubt it is to any , but such as seeing will not see , that in their doctrine , they delivered the mind of christ to people in this point of baptism , and commanded it too , even in those places , where the scripture doth not expresse what they said , or else how it came to passe that their converts were acquainted with it so as readily to imbrace it , and some of them to demand it , as we find they did , i know not , unless we shall imagine they knew and owned it by some divine immediate instinct . acts . . . . it s said that the lord opening the heart of lydia so that she attended unto the things which were spoken by paul , she was baptized and her houshold , who undoubtedly attended to the things that paul preached together with her , doth not this palpably presuppose that baptism was one of those things spoken by paul , and prest upon that auditory , or else how came she to know it ? and also to what purpose did she perform it ? likewise act. . . . . . to the jaylor asking sirs what must i do to be saved ? its said that paul and silas preached the word of the lord , and to all that were in his house : but what word of the lord was it that they spake to them ? indeed the summe of their doctrine is not set down , but that the doctrine of baptism was some of it , as well as faith , which is expressely set down , as that which concerned them in the first place is clear , or else it s a mystery to me how he and all his , who are said v. . to believe in the lord together with him , should come to understand that they ought to be baptized , much more to submit to be baptized straightway : ●o act. . . it s said that crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue , and all his house and many of the corinthians , hearing the word , b●lieved and were baptized , which how or why they should suffer themselves to be , if the word they then heard ( none of which is set down ) did not hold forth baptism as well as faith i cannot possibly conjecture : in like manner we read act. . . that philip went to samaria and preached christ to them , and v. . that when they believed the things spoken by philip pertaining to the kingdom of god , and the name of iesus christ , they were baptized both men and women : yea and this not a service they submitted to on their own heads , in their own names , as that which , had they been so pleased , they might as well have forborn , but v. . they were baptized in the name of the lord iesus , it s said also v. . of the eunuch that philip preached unto him iesus , not one jot of philips sermon unto him is set down , but the next newes we hear is this v. . that coming to a certain water in the way , the eunuch desired to be baptized , saying see here is water , what hinder ▪ why i may not be baptized ? doth not all this plainly import , howbeit what philip preached to the samaritans and the eunuch is not extant expressely in any particulars thereof , yet he preached the ends and ●uses of bap●ism to them , and prest the practise thereof upon them ? how else could they have known it ? why else did they both do and desire it ? we see then how the first preachers of the gospel ananias , philip , peter , paul are said all along to preach christ , k and jesus , l and the things concerning the kingdome of god and the name jesus christ , m and the word of the lord , n and peace by jesus and things that we must do , o and that are appointed for us to do , p and what we ought to do , q and the things that were commanded them of god , r to command us in his name , and yet preacht baptism still as well as faith , repentance and salvation : and so he seems to me to this day to preach christ but by the halves , that preaches salvation by christ , faith in christ , and not baptism in the name of christ for remission of sins . and as this doctrine of water baptism was thus universally preached in christs name , as his will concerning those that were converted and discipled , in obedience punctually to christs commission in that kind mat. . . . . in those primitive ages of the gospel , so was it as universally imbraced , and obeyed by them that were made disciples in those dayes , not onely before , but also after christ crucified . for as in the dayes before iohn the baptist was beheaded , and before christ crucified , all those multitudes of disciples , which by each of them were made by teaching , were universally baptized either by iohn , confessing their sins , or by christs disciples , who dispenst in christs name , for he dispenst not himself , in enon , or iordan , or some other places that were convenient mat. . . . iohn . . . . . . so even long after christ crucified , raised , and ascended were the people , that were discipled and converted to the faith , before ever they joined in visible church-fellowship in one body in breaking of bread and prayers , baptized all without exception : for as it s said act. . . . . . of that first church of the jews , or hebrews , to whom that epistle was after written , they were bid to be baptized every one of them , so as many of them as did gladly receive the word of the lord i. e. as repented and imbraced the gospel , were baptized , and then continued in the apostles doctrine ( who surely taught them all the six first principles of the oracles or holy things of god at that time , heb. . . . . . and what more they saw occasion for , for with many more other words then those that are recorded did peter then exhort that people v. . ) and in fellowship and in breaking of bread and prayers , so it s said cor. . . of the whole church of corinth in way of sacramental metonymy , whereby that is very familiarly spoken of the thing signified , which can be spoken properly onely of the outward sign , et retro , by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , iewes or gentiles , bond or free , none excepted , and have been all made to drink into one spirit . yea as these churches in iudea , ierusalem , and corinth were all baptized before bailt up in a body , so which of all the churches were not , to whom the apostles directed afterward those several epistles ? all the romans to whom paul wrote were baptized , s all the galatians were baptized , t the ephesians , which at first were but disciples that imbraced the truth , were baptized in the name of the lord jesus , v the colossians were baptized , x the philippians were baptized , as we see by lydia and the iaylor r and all those that believed with them , which was the beginning of the church at philippi ; and that the thessalonians were not baptized is more then bruitish to imagine , for surely paul and silas that went immediately thither from philippi where the iaylor and lydia and many more were baptized , had not got a new doctrine of no-baptism to preach before they came to thessalonica ; nay it is evident by the jews accusation of them act. . that what doings and disturbance they were occasion of through their preachings and baptizings at philippi , the same they were by the same means , no causes , but occasions of at thessalonica , therefore of them say they , these that have turned the world upside down are come hither also , yea paul himself hints that to us , thess. . . that after they had suffered and were shamefully intreated at philippi , they yet were bold to speak to the thessalonians the gospel of god ( the same gospel sure that they preacht at philippi , for what he did and ordained in one church , the same he did , and ordained in all the churches cor. . ) with much contention . by all which foregoing considerations the minor of the third main argument above is cleared , which assure baptism to be commanded to all without exception , therefore a duty from which we are not exempted . what christ commanded to be taught and observed not only in and among all nations of the world , but also in all ages and generations thereof even to the very end , the same is not ad placitum , but de jure , not at mens own pleasure , but of right to be taught and observed as christs will , and their duty in all nations to this very day . bu● christ commanded baptism in water to be taught and observed not onely in and among all nations of the world , but also in all ages and generations therof even to the end . ergo baptism in water is not at mens own pleasure , but of right to be taught and observed as christs will and their duty in all nations to this very day . the minor , which only needs proving , needs none neither to him that will but observe how plain it is to every mans understanding in the text . for first if baptism be to be taught to , and observed as duty among all nations and by every creature therein that hears and believes , as t is clear it is both here ( for teach them saies christ i. e. all nations to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you , and did he not command them in the very verse above the observation of that administration of baptism ? ) and also mark . . . ( where he bids that the gospel of salvation be from thenceforth tendred on terms of faith and baptism to all the world , to every creature capable of being preach to ) then of necessity in all nations and generations to the worlds end , for all nations were not then extant , but many nations are risen since , that the world then knew not , all the world , every creature was not in actual being at that time , neither could possibly be all baptized unless baptism abide in its right in all ages unto the end , by all nations , every creature , all the world , christ denoted all people of the earth that then were , or thereafter should be , whom , as they should successively arise , and grow into capacity for it , he would have to be in their several generation succesively taught and baptized . besides how plainly doth christ expresse his meaning to be that this course of baptizing in wa●er should be kept a foot in all ages and generations v. . where after his precept to observe that dispensation he adds this promise of his presence , and lo i am with you alwaies i. e. in your faithful observation of all these things ( for if men be not found in this way he is disingaged ) even to the end of the world amen . whence the argument in form may be thus . what way of outward administration christ not onely required to be observed to the end , but likewise promised his people to be present with them during their due observation of to the very end of the world that must stand of right to the very end of the world . but christ hath not onely required that outward administration of water baptism to be observed to the end of the world , but likewise hath promised his people to be present with them during their due observation of it to the very end of the world . ergo that administration of water baptism is of right to stand even to the very end of the world . the objections that are usually made against what is asserted hitherto concerning the needfulnesse of water baptism to all , who will not be under a just account of rejecting the counsell of that prophet and rebelling against the command of king jesus , among which i shall set down none but such as to my own knowledge have been made , and among them i shall not fail to set down ( if not all ) yer at least hose that by the opposite party in this point are called and counted the principal , for so is one parcel of the ensuing reasons stiled in a certain coppy of them , which was given to me lately while i was at the presse , viz. the principall reasons why believers need not be baptized ( whereby you may ghesse how little worth answering the lesse principal are ) are on this wise . ranterist . the baptism mentioned mat. . , . . was not water baptism , but the baptism of the spirit . baptist. your blind boldnesse , and buzzardly blindnesse in this i inwardly blush at , when i ( as i hope your self will also , when you ) consider , . that it was a baptism enjoined , and commanded to be dispensed , and that . by meer men , who never were yet since the world stood so highly prerogativ'd from the father , as to be made administrators of more then water baptism , or to be baptizers with the spirit , for that was ever yet , now is , and ever will be the peculiar prerogative royal of christs own royal person , never to be impared to any other ; to give , i. e. to baptize persons with the holy spirit , the father by him , and he immediately by himself without imparting any of that power , which he only had to do it , to others to give it in his name , is the sole giver of every good and perfect gift iam. . . so luke . . your heavenly father will give the holy spirit to them that ask him : so act. . . the holy spirit which god hath given to all them that obey him : cor. . . god who hath given us the earnest of his spirit : ephes. . . sealed with the holy spirit of promise which is the earnest &c. the baptism with the spirit is the inward seal upon the heart , that only god sets , and not any meer man , meer man is commissionated and impowerd from god to dispense no more but the outward sign , i. e. water baptism , which is not the seal of the new covenant , as the priests call it , for that 's the spirit , which god onely gives throw christ the son , for him onely hath god the father sealed i. e. authorized , honoured with that priviledge , viz. to be under himself the sole dispenser of the spirit iohn . . which wherever it s given gives gifts in such wise as seems good unto him , cor. . , , , , , , , . there are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit , all these worketh that one , and the self same spirit distributing to every one severally as he will , there are differences of administrations , diversities of operations , meaning internall administrations and operations upon the soul , for there be outward administrations and operations ad extra , as preaching , praying , water baptism , laying on of hands with prayer , breaking bread , in which men act to godward in order to his acting toward us in the other , for men may promise us the spirit , and shew us what to do , and baptize us in water in order to our having the spirit , and pray for us that we may receive the holy spirit , &c. and minister to us outwardly in the ordinances of divine service , which this new testament , which in respect to the old testament is called the ministration of the spirit , because god gives down to them that wait on him sincerely and believingly in these outward waies of the gospel , which are ( to see to ) but foolish instruments , earthen vessels , in some measure here the heavenly treasure of his spirit , and hereupon as they hold forth the word of the gospel , in the hearing of which the spirit is received , as t was not in the hearing of the law ( for the spirit was not the promise of that covenant of circumcision , but the old canaan , for i will circumcise thy heart &c. was a gospel promise though made in the time of the law ) and in these respects , viz. as preaching , and dispensing gospel ordinances they may be stiled ( and in such a sense onely are they so stiled , cor. . . ) ministers not of the letter , i. e. the law , but of the spirit , i. e. the gospel ; but there is but one and the same lord , and t is one and the same god who worketh all in all . all in all is christs own glorious , paul and apollos and the ministers by whom we believe may work , and do all that is to be done without to all men , they may baptize in water by commission from christ ( for so he himself baptized not but his disciples , viz. iohn baptist and the rest ) and wicked men may by his permission baptize , i. e. overwhelm us with suffering , shame &c. but himself onely baptizes us with that holy spirit of his , that must support us under suffering , he sends the comforter : he was the onely baptizer of them upon whom the spirit sell in the apostles ministration of baptism with water , in which case the spirit was promised act. . and of laying on hands with prayer in which way , though not ever * , yet ordinarily it was dispensed . i indeed baptize you in water ( saies iohn ) i. e. we men can minister no further to you , being but messengers from him to do that , but he shall baptize you with the holy spirit and fire mat. . . so see how iohn peculiarly indigitates him iohn . . as in sole right to that service , the same is he that baptizeth with the holy spirit , and as iohn did baptize onely with water , so with no more then water did all the disciples and apostles after christ crucified baptize ; not with the spirit , ( for that christ onely did in their due dispensation of the other ) they had no promise any where that i find of such a priviledge : i find it promised to them act. . . that they should be baptized with the holy spirit not many daies thence , but never that they should baptize with the holy spirit , christ keeps himself the right of powring that out upon all men as they turn to him proverbs . . i am ashamed therefore at the cloudy conceits of such as say that was not water baptism with which christ commanded his disciples to baptize the nations after teaching mat. . . . and the rather because , secondly , it s as clear as if it were written with a beam of the sun , that what was done most immediately , and more remotely by the disciples in obedience to that commssion , when once power was come on them to go forth ( till when they were to stay , and forbear their testimony luke . . . . act. . . which was no more but teaching , and as to baptism the baptizing in water : for act. . . peter promised them indeed that they should receive , or be baptized with the holy spirit in case they would repent and be baptized , but the baptism he prest them to , and upon which he promises the other cannot be that of the spirit , but water , unlesse wee l feign peter to have spoken such tautological non-sense as this to them viz. repent and be baptized with the spirit , and then you shall receive the holy spirit and as the beginning of their execution of christs commission was no other ( save what they promised ) as to their dispensation of baptism , then teaching and baptizing in water , and after praying for the spirit with laying on hands , so were all their proceedings suitable hereunto , for he is fast asleep with his eyes open , resolving to see and say nothing in favor of water baptism , but to cry it down against light , that shall say that those which are said to be baptized in the name of the lord iesus , act. . . . act. . . and to be commanded by peter to be baptized in the name of the lord act. . . were baptized by philip , paul , peter or any man else with any more then meer water baptism , for the baptism with the spirit is in all these places spoken of as received from god in way of laying on of hands in prayer , and preaching besides the other , as either preceding or succeeding it , as the lord pleased in his own season to dispense it . ranterist . if it were water baptism that was meant mat. . and that was practised by peter , philip , paul and the other primitive ministers , yet that water baptism was no other then the baptism of john onely , and not of christ , that was ere long to cease , and to vanish before the baptism of christ i. e. that of the spirit , when that should come in , and not to continue as a standing dispensation to be used and practised to the end . john the baptist mat. . . opposeth his baptism to the baptism of christ , which could not have been done , if the baptism with water was an inseparable companion of christs doctrine : how could john say verily i baptize you with water , but he shall baptize you with the holy spirit , if christ had been commanded to baptize with water as well as iohn ? if so , the words of john would have run thus , verily i baptize you with onely water , but he shall baptize you also with the holy spirit ▪ baptist. here again i cannot but professe my to be ashamed at this curious conceit of yours , who distinguish the baptism of water , and that of the spirit into iohns and christs , and oppose these two one to the other , as if the one of these were destructive to the other , as if that of iohns were his own , and none of christs , when yet that is so undeniably evident as it is , that this of water , as well as that of the spirit , was given out by ch●ist himself so plainly as a part of his will and testament h to abide together with teaching , believing and repenting to the worlds end . you talk as if the baptism with water was an ordinance of iohn , a baptism of which not christ , but iohn was under god the main moderator pro tempore while it stood in force , as if iohn had instituted , and ordained it , and christ put an end to it , as if iohn were the author of it , and christ the finisher , to cause it to cease , whereas nothing is more clear then that christ himself was both the author and finisher of it in another sense , i. e. he that first ordained and appointed it to be administred even by iohn himself , and after iohns decease , yea and after his own death and resurrection too , gave order to its continuance , and for the observation of it among all nations now , as thitherto it had been observed only among the jews : i say its clear that the baptism with water was christs baptism , and howbeit it be called iohns , as iohn was the first minister , and messenger from christ to begin it , ( for behold i send my messenger and he shall prepare my way before me saith christ of iohn mal. . , ) yet christ himself was the chief author of it , in whose name and not in iohns it was begun and dispensed ever , even in that juncture wherein iohn himself was living , and verst about it , and before christ had so specially commanded the continuance of it in all nations to the worlds end , in his own and the fathers and the spirits name as he does mat. . . . . and ever after that also as we may see , act. . . where peter preaching the same doctrine that iohn himself did viz. the baptism of repentance for remission of sins x , sayes repent and be baptized in the name of iesus christ , for remission of sins , so act. . . they were baptized with this water baptism in the name of the lord iesus , so act. . . he commanded them ●o be baptized in the name of the lord , so act. . . . where after that to certain disciples who were baptized with iohns baptism , paul had said iohn veryly baptized with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after that is on christ jesus , it is said , that when they heard this they were baptized i. e. in water in the name of the lord iesus . we see therefore that though its called the baptism of iohn as iohn began it , yet it is that which christ , who was no minister , servant , or disciple of iohn ( for iohn was his ) so owned as his , as not onely to honour it with his own submission to it , though in no such need of it as we , & more above it then any of us , to fulfil all righteousnesse of his own law i. e. the gospel for example sake to us , but also in his own ministry to give order to his disciples to administer it to all the disciples they should make , and this not onely before as iohn . . iohn . . . but likewise after his own death and resurrection , even when he was now ready to ascend , mat. . mark. . which , sure he would not have done , if there had been such opposition as you speak of betwen the baptism with water , that was called iohns , and that bap●sm of the spirit , which because he onely baptizes with that , is called christs , that they must not both abide together in the world to the end , but one vanish away presently before the other , and it had not been the mind of christ that water baptism should be rather ( as you deny it to be ) an inseparable companion of his doctrine , nay surely instead of confirming the doctrine and practise of water baptism , as christ did in his ministry , before his death , practising it , i. e. by the hands of his disciples on all the disciples which he himself made as iohn . . . . . and after his resurrection , and immediately before his ascension y giving commandments to his disciples to observe it and teach all nations to observe the same as mat. . . . . he would rather have confiscated it , instead of causing it to continue by giving new and fresh commission for it , he would have caused it to cease by some intimation or other , that when the holy spirit should be given , and men begin to be baptized therewith , then there should be no longer attendance given to the baptism with water , he would have said go teach all nations ( beginning at ierusalem ) that there must be now no more bapzing with water , but that in the way of repentance and faith onely without that baptism , they shall be baptized with the spirit , & peter knowing his mind would have said to them act . when they askt what they should do , repent you of all your sins and believe in christ in order to the remission of them , but in the name of jesus christ be not baptized in water , as some while since every penitent was used to be , for that was a dispensation and baptism of iohn that had its time a while meerly to prepare the way of christ , but is now abolished and out of date , we must forsake iohn now and not be baptized nor walk after those customes , but expect a baptism with the spirit onely , also act. . . who can require these persons to be baptized in water that have received the spirit , and are baptized with the spirit as well as we ? thus i say they would have said and done , as paul when circumcision , and the law was to cease , as much as he condescended in the case of ti●othy , yet never commanded it to con●inue , but taught all the jewes that were among the gentiles to forsake moses saying that they should not circumcise their children nor walk aft●r the customes acts . . if there had been such opposition , such inconsi●tency between the baptism in water , and that of the spirit that they must not stand together , if baptism in water must no● have remained rather in a certain continual subserviency to the other , if it were not to be according to christs will an inseperable companion of his doctrine , but we find not the least hint or intimation of the mind of christ , when expressed either by his own mouth or the mouth of his apostles , that were to deliver and command nothing to people , but what they had received of the lord jesus , and what was commanded them of the lord , as concerning the cessation of that service , or any toleration of any one person to omit it , but as we find it a part of christs gospel and testament even from the very beginning of it which was in johns baptizing with water , * so for ought i ●ind it was ae jure to continue as a part of his testament among other things , not a tittle of which testament is yet annihilated , till he , whose will and testament the whole is , shall come to take account of all men how as to the preceptory part of it they have observed it . whereas therefore you seem to be of this opinion that christ was not commanded , i. e. not commissionated from the father to baptize with water as well as iohn , because it s said by iohn i verily baptize you with water , but he shall baptize you with the holy spirit , as if christ had had nothing to do to meddle with that water baptism as any ordinance of his , or to give any order about it , as if he had had no more power to dispense or enjoin that , then iohn had power to meddle in christs peculiarity , or to take on him to baptize with the spirit : i must tell you that christ had command and commission from the father to that service of water baptism , though , it being the external inferiour matter , he committed the actual administration of it to his disciples and ministers , among whom i look on iohn as the chief , or else , sith he commanded others to do it , and so baptized per alios at least , if not per se iohn . . ▪ . his testimony of himself iohn . . . iohn . . is not true , which indeed were blasphemy to think , for he there professes that he spake nothing of himself , but the father which sent him gave him commandment what he should say , and what he should speak , and that whatever he spake even as the father gave him commandment so he spake , and likewise that as the father gave him commandment so he did : whereupon since he did by his disciples baptize with water in iudaea while iohn and his disciples in aenon ioh. . . . and made and baptized more disciples then iohn ( for all came and flockt to his dispensations of water baptism at last , and left john , insomuch as he in his ministry , even of water baptism , increased and iohn decreased iohn . . . , , ▪ ) those words of iohn , as much as you think it absurd to understand them so , must necessarily run so in any solid understanding , though the terms onely and also be not expressed , viz. i verily baptize you with water onely , i. e. i can go no further then to that outward administration of water , but he shall baptize you also with the holy spirit , i. e. he is impowered to dispense higher matters to you then water only , with which he baptizes too as well as i , i. e. not himself but his disciples , viz. that bap●ism with the holy spirit : in which words you cannot say properly that iohn opposeth his baptism , to the baptism of christ , as if that which is called his were none of christs but rather that john magnifies the person of christ above himself , as who should say , i can dispense no more then the bare outward sign , but christ , who though he came after me yet was preferred before me , in whose name , and not in my own i baptize , and whose the baptism is that i dispense , and not mine , he is able besides the sign to vouchsafe you the very thing signifyed thereby . this baptism then of water in the name of christ together with repentance from dead works and faith in his name iohn baptist was the first minister to begin , in which respect it is sometimes stiled his , but he left it after a while to christ himself and his disciples to carry on , who all ti●l christ was actually crucifyed preacht and practised the self same things that iohn did , viz. repentance , and faith in a christ yet to suffer for remission of sins , and baptism in water in token thereof , and saving some circumstantiall difference the very same in substance even after christ was crucified too . for herein onely the baptism with water which was christs , and of which iohn was but a minister ( as we are ) differs since christ crucified from what it was before he was crucified viz. that then it was the baptism of repentance and faith for remission of sins by a christ that was ere long to suffer , for so iohn preached act. . . and baptized matth. . . saying repent , for the kingdome of heaven is at hand , and christ himself preached the very same thing mat. . . and baptized i. e. by his disciples with the same baptism iohn . , , - . , . but now since the son is lifted up and hath suffered and is risen , it is the baptism of repentance and faith for remission of sins by a christ that is already dead for sin , and risen again for justification rom. . . act. . . - . , , &c. so that the baptism of iohn ( for so that was called that was dispensed before christ had suffered , and was yet to come act. . . ) and that of the disciples of christ after christ crucifyed differ not in substance , but onely in this small circumstance in which also the●r gospel in point of faith did differ , viz. that one was a baptism into christ to suffer , the other into a christ that had suffered ; and so they preached a different faith , a different christ , and yet all one and the same : yea so christs own ministry differed from it self considered in this different time of before and after his death : for before both he and his disciples preacht the same gospel , repentance , faith and baptism that iohn did , viz. of salvation by the son of god to suffer , but had iohn liv'd till christ had suffered , he would then have preached the same repentance , faith , and baptism that christ then did , and we now do , viz. of salvation by the son of god that hath suffered , and this is all the same substantially , though circumstantially thus diversified from the other ; wherefore the word of the gospel under iohn , and after christs death , is called the very same word , and the word that peter preacht to cornelius's house , is said to begin from iohns baptism , and as the word with which iohn came preaching , so the baptism with which iohn came baptizing continued still , and was preached and practised by command from christ by the mouth of peter on disciples believing in that very place act. , , , , , . &c. to the end , and this not , in honour of iohn ( as in discourse with some it hath been frivolously answered me ) but as a thing which ought to be done as in force a new from the lord christ in whose name ( which peter abus'd to them , if he had not warrant from christ so to do ) he commanded them all , and that in water , to be baptized . ranterist . you have spoken much concerning christs commanding the observation of water baptism to the end of the world , and of christs promising his presence to his disciples , in the observation thereof , to the end of the world , but you are mightily mistaken in the meaning of christ in that phrase to the end of the world mat. . , for he means no more thereby , but to the end of that age , as mr. saltmarsh well observed , * from the signification of the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which properly signifies age . baptist. that mr. saltmarsh hath such a passage there i very well remember , and how many have been stumbled thereby , and by sundry other fancies of his to the imbracing of such notions and principles , as from whence they have at last commenced atheists ( he being in his time a man of such account among some , that his sayings were received as oracles ) i cannot but with some sadnesse consider : and that the wo●d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies age i dare not deny ▪ but that it signifies age in that sense , in which mr. saltmarsh ( i hope ) onely mistook it , and most of his admirers do yet miserably mistake it to do , i dare boldly and do utterly deny , for first , where as they restrain the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so as to say it sounds forth no more then seculum i. e. some one particular age , or generation , properly it rather signifies aevum age i. e. time taken together in the whole lump of it , all time , or all ages collectively considered from that particular age or time we speak of , even to the end of time it self , or at least of the time of this world ; neither doth the spirit ever ( for ought i find ) much lesse usually , use the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when he means to expresse some one age or generation onely , specially in the writings of the evangelists , a and also elsewhere , b but secondly , when he speaks of time or age in the whole bulk of it , of the world in all generations of it , i. e. all the time of the world together , from the time spoken of to the end of it , he uses the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c and that not onely in that . of mat. . but also in many other places , as iohn . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the beginning of the world , or from the beginning of time cor. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the god of this world , yea and of the very same evangelist , yea i shall shew you no lesse then three or four places in mathew , in every of which i am confident your very selves shall say is not meant the end of that age , that then was , but absolutely the very end of this world it self , wherein we yet are , which yet draws very neer to an end , in every of which places yet there 's no other phrase but the same that is used mat. . . to expresse it by viz. the end of the world , yea the very same greek phrase , which is surely enough ( if very common sense and reason did not also preach it ) to evince that , and no other to be the sense in mat. . . those places are mat. . . the harvest is the end of the world v. . as the tares are gathered into the fire , so shall it be at the end of the world , v. . so shall it be at the end of the world , mat. . . lord what shall be the signs of thy coming , and of the end of the world ; i suppose no man that is well in his wits , will say of any of these four places that they signifie the end of that age or generation onely , or any other then the time of christs second coming , which is yet to come , and when it comes shall put a period to this old world , wherein unrighteousnesse yet dwells , and begin the new wherein dwelleth righteousnesse : ( and as for them that say he is already come the second time , and with that coming that is enqui●ed after , mat. . . much more the rabble of that ruder sort of ranters ▪ and ungodly scoffers of the last times spoken of pet. . . that are willingly ignorant , because of the tediousnesse of that thought to them , that there is any more coming of christ at all , some of which also deny that there was any christ , or any first coming of such a one at all ) i deem none of that deep dotage of the one , nor of those divellish dreams of the other worth disproving : ) neverthelesse there 's no other greek phrase used all along but the same that is mat. . . which is rendred even to the end of the world : viz. m wheras therefore some say if water baptism were commanded by christ as his baptism , t was but for that age or generation , wherein the apostles lived ( and to say nothing of the whimfical uncertainties that are among them that deny water baptism , whose witnesse of it hangs not together , some saying t was iohns onely , and never commanded by christ , and that t was to end in christ crucified , some yielding that t was commanded by christ , and practised after his resurrection onely to do honour a little to iohns ministry , and not disparage it by too sudden abolition , some that it was prest by christ , and p●eacht by the apostles as his , but to last onely for that generation , and then of right to end , some that it lasted de jure till the treading down , which was more then one or two ages after that , and then it was never to be raised , as if mens might destroyed the right of it , whose folly i shall shew more anon ) i still contrariwise assert , that t was of right to stand to the end , and though foretold that it should cease , and all other services , yet but for the term of moneths only , and then to rise again rev. . . ranterist . you tell us much of christs sending , and commissionating his disciples to baptize all nations , but that seems not to me to be true , because the apostle paul the great doctor of the gentil●s , who was sent to preach the gospel , and throwly to convert men act. . , . and whose indeavour was to present men perfect in christ iesus col. . . doth notwithstanding openly affirm , that he was not sent to baptize cor. . . making that the ground of his giving thanks to god for his baptizing of none but crispus , and gaius , and the houshold of stephanus : but had the apostle been sent to baptize , though not chiefly , it would have been his duty so to do , and consequently he should give thanks to god for omitting a part of his duty which is absurd . baptist. by that expression of paul viz. christ sent me not to baptize , but preach the gospell the latter clause of which as having weight in it , i suppose you willingly leave out , he cannot rationally be understood to mean thus , viz. that the gosspel he preached had not baptism enjoined to be preached , and practised as an inseperable companion of it ( for t is undoubtedly apparent by what is said above that baptism and teaching , baptism and faith , baptism and repentance were ever preached and practised both together ) but that christ did not enjoin him absolutely to the actual dispensing of the ordinance of water baptism alwaies with his own hands , but to preach the gospel ( mark that ) to preach the gospel , i. e the baptism of faith and repentance for remission of sins , and to see that the thing were done either by himself or some other , when persons believed , but not to baptize necessarily in his own person , so but that the opus operatum , i. e. the work it self might be aswel done per alios , if not per se , even as well by the hands of any one , as his own : and so indeed it might , for whereas in these daies there is such ado , and such stumbles in the hearts of many about a right administrator of baptism , i. e. that may actually with his own hand dispense it , as if he must be meliori luto some extraordinary kind of person , of better mould then other men , some strange man , or miracle worker or other , * yet there is nothing more clear then this viz. that the bare administration of it , being something a more servile work then ordinary , might be done , and was of old ( and why not now i know not ) by the hands of any , at least any gifted he disciple : neither do i find , but that people are minded willingly many times to puzzle and wind themselves off from submitting to the administration of that dispised and to the flesh unpleasing service of baptism , though convinced that t is their duty , by pleading that they cannot find no fit administrator , * that the word speaks one tittle about the quality of the administrator , but onely of our submission , ex officio , to the administration : it s said by way of narration they were baptized in iordan matth. . when they believed they were baptized act. . .- . . . . and by way of precept repent and be baptized act. . . arise and be baptized act. . . and by way of promise he that believeth and is baptized , in the passive still , shall be saved : but never required by whom in particular the thing shall be done , so as to say repent and let such , or such a one baptize you , as if we should be better in having it from some hands rather then from others : neither doth the efficacy of baptism to us depend one straw upon the quality of the person administring be it paul , apollos or cephas , or any other disciple inferiour to them in capacity or office , as ananias or philip , but upon the quality of the person or subject to whom it s administred , which if it be a person professing to repent and believe , and so doing also as he professes , it matters not so much who does it , so the thing be done : nay the validity of the baptism depends as not upon any other qualifications of the person baptizing , so not on his being baptized , or not baptized himself , that does it , specially in such a case or juncture wherein at first , or after long neglect of it , there 's none but unbaptized persons to begin it * nor yet do i find , but that in the primitive times the simple act of baptizing the believers when once converted was any other but an act so inferiour , servile and subservient to that of preaching the gospel , of preaching repentance , faith , and baptism in christs name for remission of sins in order to conversion , which more specially belonged to the messenger-sh●p , that it was ( unlesse any desired the apostles to do it themselves , or when the multitudes to be baptized were so great that t was fit that every he disciple , that had two hands , as i may say , should be assistant ) committed mostly to more inferior persons , common disciples , who as they might baptize , and preach too occasionally , so when any were converted by either themselves or the apostles , did attend more to the bare act of dispensation then the apostles did : we cannot think that peter himself , nor the eleven did baptize all the three thousand without the hands of many other of the to help at least , though in that case the apostles baptized some also t is like . moreover we see philip baptized the samaritans and the honourable eunuch , yet , though an occasional preacher of the gospel , he did it in the capacity of adisciple only , for his deaconship did not make him ere the fitter to baptize : and ananias baptized paul , who is stiled but a certain disciple : and the rest of the disciples that together with philip were scattered abroad by the persecution that arose about steven went every where , even as far as antioch preaching the lord jesus , and turned many unto the lord act. . . to the end , and baptized them surely as philip did , for that businesse was the foundation of the famous church at antioch , before any such great administrators as apostles came neer them , for though barnabas , who together with paul was sent forth afterward from that church with prayer and laying on of hands , from which time they both were visibly , and in foro ecclesiae apostles , and were so called and not before act. . - . . was sent to confirm and comfort them , and exhorted them to continue in that faith which they were baptized into before ; yet he was but in the capacity of a teaching disciple only yet , and not an apostle : nor do i believe that peter baptized them with his own hands acts ▪ but by some of them that came with him from ioppa , only he bid it should be done , as that which no body could forbid , and commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord , but by whom t was done we know not . the father sent christ to baptize , i. e. to give order for the baptizing of the disciples he should make , or else he could not be truly said both to baptize , and yet also to speak and do no more then the father that sent him gave command for , as he is ioh. . . . . . . . and yet in another sense it may be said christ was not sent to baptize i. e. personally to dispense the ordinance it self , for if he had been sent to baptize with his own hands he had not fulfilled his message , for howbeit it s said he baptized more then iohn , yet he himself dipenst baptism to none with his own hands , iohn . . . but by the hands of his disciples . when therefore paul saies he was not sent to baptize , he means not that baptism was none of those things he had in commission to meddle with ( for had it been so , he had meddled beyond his commission in baptizing those few he did baptize with his own hands , which were absurd to think ) but that he had not such a positive command to dispense it after he had preacht the gospel to conversion so himself , but that others even inferior persons might baptize the disciples of his converting as well as himself : he means not that baptism , was no part of his message , which he received in charge from god to deliver and declare among men as his will ( for he saies god sent him to preach it , not to baptize but to preach the gospel saith he , and what was that but the gospel of repentance and baptism , the baptism of faith , and repentance for remission of sins among the nations ) but that there was no necessity that himself should administer it , when it might be done by others . not that t was not needful to be done , but that t was needlesse he personally should dispense it , so it might be done by another . neither doth paul make that the ground of his giving of thanks to god that no more but crispus and g●us , and the houshold of stephanus &c. were baptized ( for then he had thankt god that the corinthians had most of them neglected their duty in that point of baptism , which its evident he preacht among them as well as faith , or else sure none of them at all would have submitted , act. . . but that he himself had with his own hands baptized but some of them , least ( perceiving what a foolish dotage on his person was in the hearts of many of them ) any of them , at least his party ( for some doted too much on paul , some on apollos , some on cephas i. e. peter ) should either think the better of their baptism as long as they lived , because he dispenst it , or else think the worse of him for it , i. e. that he had baptized in his own name : this is the clear sense in which paul speaks and not the other , cor. . . . . . viz. that no more then such and such were baptized by his hands , not that no more then such and such of them ( for they were all baptized by one or other ) were baptized at all ; for that many more then those he there names as baptized by him , were baptized by one or other ( for all crispus's house , and many more of the corinthians besides crispus's his own person , whom onely with gaius and stephanus his house , he here names , believed and were baptized as well as he and they ) is evident act. . . yea verily and elsewhere that all the corinthians were baptized , for cor. . . paul speaking to the whole church of corinth ( none excluded ) saith thus were ye i. e. ye o corinthians , that were all baptized , baptized in the name of paul ? and cor. . . speaking to and of the whole church again , together with himself , he saies , we are all baptized into one body , and have been all made i. e. in the supper , to drink into one spirit : all the body of them therefore were baptized . ranterist . it appears that some of the believing romans , who were beloved of god and called to be saints rom. . . and who had from their hearts obeyed the form of doctrine delivered unto them rom. . . were neverthelesse unbaptized , as many of us as have been baptized into christ , &c. which words plainly intimate , that some of them were not baptized , see ioh. . . to as many as came to him gave he power , these words plainly intimate that some of these did not receive christ , as appeareth by the words immediately foregoing , it s also evident that some of the church of the galatians were not baptized , for the same expression is used concerning them , gal. . . from which two instances it is apparent , that baptism is neither necessary to make a saint , or to render him capable of church-fellowship . baptist. [ as many as ] is a phrase that where it s used doth not alwayes , nay doth never of it self necessarily expresse and imply [ not all ] or [ but some onely ] of the things or persons spoken of in the words that border about it , but as it may happen pro re substrata , according to the nature of the matter in hand , and according as the sense thereof is manifest by the foregoing and following sentences expressing or implying it ; so that sometimes you shall find it signifying , but some onely or a part , exclusively of others or the rest of the body spoken to , or spoken of thereabout , and sometimes no lesse then the whole of it , neither is it apparent whether [ a ] or but [ some onely ] is the sense of this term [ as many as ] where ere t is used , but as t is made appear by the context , or some circumstances in it , and not a jot lesse then this is said by your self in that very objection of yours i am now answering to , for of iohn . . as many as received him , to them gave he power , these words plainly intimate ( say you ) that some of them , i. e. the jews whom its said he came to , did not receive christ , and for my part i grant they do so signfie in that place : but why ? or how doth it appear that they must needs signifie there that but some of the jews received him . it appeareth not by any usuall or constant sense of the words as many as , as if they alwayes sounded forth but some , and never all of such or such subjects as are spoken of , but it appeareth ( say you ) by the words immediately foregoing : in which ve●ily you say right , for the words foregoing do plainly shew what the sense of these words as many as is in this scripture , for forasmuch as it s said plainly above , that he came to his own , and his own received him not i. e. for the generality of them rejected him , therefore it s undeniably evident that here the words , as many as received him , do intimate that some did not receceive him ; but if you should take these words , as many as received him abstract from what 's said above viz. that his own , for the most part did not receive him , then they were not necessarily to be so understood , neither could they simply of themselves intimate so much : and as these words as many as , considered abstractively from the context or speeches adjacent , are not of themselves termes so necessarily exclusive of some , as they are conclusive of some , so considered in a right reference to the rest of the words preceding and succeeding ▪ among which they have their place , they will be found sometimes conclusive of no lesse then all those persons or things there spoken of , e. g. if i were speaking of the whole company of men in the great ship or royal soveraign ( as paul does to the whole church at galatia ) and say , you are all in a pretty safe condition , for as many of you have been admitted into that strong ship cannot likely be sunk : does not the word as many of you signifie all the men he speaks to , even the whole company of them that are in the ship , and not some of them onely ? so and no otherwise is it to be understood in these two scriptures , viz. rom. . . gal. . . where you would needs have these words viz. as many of us , and as many of you as were , as have been baptized into christ , necessarily to intimate no more but that onely some of the believing romans , and some of the galatians were baptized , and to be conclusive of some in each of these two churches , and exclusive of the rest , even of them , as being not baptized , whereas there is nothing in the world more plain then this , that these words rom. . as many of us gal. . as many of you , as have been baptized &c. if considered with that due relation they bear , and stand in to the words foregoing or following , do intimate to us that the whole church of the romans , that were to reckon on themselves as dead to sin , and bound to live to it no longer , ( and that certainly was no lesse then the whole ) were baptized , and that all the churches in galatia , or all the believers among the galatians were baptized . yea if the scope of the apostle paul in both the places be observed , we shall find that he makes this no other then an argument , and uses it as a certain medium or motive whereby to perswade the romans that they were all to dy to sin ; and now to live to it no longer , and to prove the galatians , even all of them , to be , visibly to us at least , the sons of god by faith in christ , because they were all of them baptized into christ , and thereby had visibly put him on . first take notice that the businesse he would perswade the whole church at rome to , and prove to be the duty of them all is this , that they should now dy to sin , have no more to do with sin , and live to god , now how does he prove that , and go about to perswade them to it ? which is his businesse throwout that whole chapter rom. . no otherway ( as i find ) but by imminding them of it , that by their being buried with christ in baptism this not only was signifyed to them , but also became the duty of them all , and that so strictly that howbeit before not so obliged , yet from thenceforth they must crucify the old man , and utterly abolish the body of sin , and live to righteousnesse : what ? shall we ( saith he , for so his sense is ) continue in sin , i. e. we that are dead to it , and have been all baptized into christ in token of it ? god forbid : know ye not that every one that 's baptized into christ , is baptized into his death ? yea therfore t is that we , i. e. all we still , himself , and the whole church to whom he writes , are buryed with christ in baptism into death &c. to shew that as christ dyed , and rose again , so we also should walk in newnesse of life , for if we , i. e. all we have been planted together i. e. in baptism the lively ●esemblance of it , into the likenesse of his death , we shall be also in the likenesse of his resurrection , &c and so he goes on moving them all now to lead a new life , and to be servants to righteousnesse by the consideration of the great engagements to godward that lay upon them all since such time as they were baptized : and forasmuch as you say they had all obeyed from the heart the form of doctrine delivered unto them you therein contradict your self , and confesse no lesse then we assert viz. that they were all baptized : for that form of doctrine that was at first delivered to them was the form of doctrine spoken of heb. . , . even the six first principles of the oracles of god , of the doctrine of christ , which as they are here called a form of doctrine so there are called the foundation or abc of a christian , and of the church , as also eph. . the foundation of the prophets and apostles , i. e. the first doctrine of christ , on which they built the church , of which baptism is there said to be a part : yea and that very phrase of paul rom. . . viz. ye were the servants of sin , but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine , which was delivered to you , is no other then a further prosecution , and inculcation of the former argument upon the whole church of the romans still , and is as much as if the had said ye were once , i. e. before your baptism the servants of sin , and then nothing but sin could be expected from you , but now the case is otherwise , you have all obeyed the form of doctrine delivered , i. e. have professed your repentance from dead works and faith , and been baptized into christ , and thereby listed your selves visibly under him as his souldiers , and are hereby become servants to righteousnesse , therefore now you must not let sin have dominion over you : this verily is the very meaning of the apostle in the whole chapter , yea and in those very words know you not that as many of us as have been baptized ? viz. not to have us suppose that but some of them had been baptized , but to give them to understand that as all of them had been baptized , so as many as are baptized into christ are baptized into his death , in token of it , that they should now all become new creatures : if we speak his mind in a syllogistical form it runs thus viz. as many of us as are baptized must know this that we are baptized into christs death , and therefore must dy to sin and live holily . but we have been all baptized or buried with christ in baptism into his death . therefore we must all dy to sin and live holily . if this were not his sense , but we must take the words as many of us as have been baptized to be conclusive of himself , and but some of that church , and exclusive of the rest of them as to baptism , then i testify they are much more exclusive of many of the● from that duty of dying to sin , which he there presses upon the whole church , by the consideration of their being baptized : yea if that phrase as many of us as have been baptized doth intimate to us that not all , but some only of the believing rom● had bin baptizd , then it must needs intimate to us that not all but some of the believing rom● were engaged by their baptism , and pressed by paul in that chap. from the consideration of their death , and burial with christ in baptism , to dy to sin and live to righteousnesse , which no rational man can imagine , but rather as they were all urged by an argument drawn from their baptism to live to god , so they had assuredly been all of them baptized . and the same may be said of that same phrase as t is used to the galatians gal. . to whom pauls drift was to prove what he had said of them all in the verse above v. . viz. that they were all the children of god by faith in christ : and how doth he prove it that they were so ? no otherwise but by this medium , viz. that they had been all baptized : you are all the children of god by faith in christ , for as many of you as have been baptized into christ have visibly put him on , and thereby declared you have faith in him , which having , you are the children of god : in form his argument runs thus , viz. as many of you as have been baptized into christ have put on christ , and are thereby apparently declared to be the children of god by faith in him . but you have been all baptized into christ &c. ergo , &c. this must needs be his sense here too , or else if the term as many of you as have been baptized must not be taken as conclusive of all the galatians to whom he writes , but exclusive of some of them from baptism , it must be exclusive of the same persons from being proved by pauls argument drawn from their baptism to to be the children of god : as many as received him to them gave he power to be come the sons of god , is as much as to say , he gave power to become the sons of god to no more then such as received him : so as many of you as have been baptized into christ have put on christ , and are thereby visibly declared to be the children of god by faith in him , though it do not signify that all the galatians had not been baptized , but some of them onely , yet it signifies this however that no more then such as had been baptized into christ , had put him on and were thereby declared to be gods children , and consequently that if but some of the galatians were baptized , but some of them onely appeared to be gods children : which were absurd to think and would render paul as contradictory to himself in the verse above , where he saies ye are all the children of god , so very ridiculous in his argument ; and render his proof as pedling as if he had said thus by way of position , viz. you are all , even every one of you , the children of god , and then by way of proof thus , viz. for some of you have been baptized , and by that baptism of yours are declared so to be , though the rest are not . ranterist . you make baptism i perceive very needfull but the apostle peter who very well understood the commission given to him and the rest of his fellow apostles matth. , , . mark . . . when he speaketh of the baptism that saveth pet. . . least any should think that he meant the baptism of water , whereof we speak , by which the filth of the body is put away , he excludeth the putting away the filth of the flesh , and places baptism wholly in the answer of a good conscience towards god , neither can any man truely say that by putting away of the filth of the flesh is here to be understood the putting away of the ●ilthy works of the flesh for then could it neither be excluded from salvation , which is promised them which mortify the deeds of the flesh , but walk after the spirit rom. . . . nor opposed to the answer of a good conscience , which springs from the putting away of dead works , such as the works of the flesh are , for he only is truly said to have a good conscience , who is not conscious to himself of walking according to the flesh . baptist. that by the words putting away the filth of the flesh , is meant that bare outward dispensation of water i freely do , and every one must grant , and therefore what is spoken by you in proof of that might well have been spared : also that the bare submission to that outward dispensation of water is not that , which simply of it self , and abstract from the inward i. e. the answer of a good conscience doth save us , must needs be granted also : but what of this ? will it therefore follow that it is to be omitted , and not made use of at all ? in reason surely it cannot be so assertter : for as the bare outward hearing of the word without doing it , will do us no good but rather hurt , & yet that outward hearing is an ordinance at no hand to be neglected , but necessarily to be used in order to the doing of the word , without which we had better never hear , for we shall not save , but deceive our own souls iam. . . and shall perish in the end mat. . . and as bare outward fellowship in breaking of bread is so far from saving , that we eat and drink judgement to our selves unlesse withall we discern the lords body , and be pattakers of the thing signified , and yet that outward service is needful to be performed : so though water baptism doth not save us ex opero operato , and unlesse it be answered within by the answer of a good conscience , yet what consequence is there from hence that it need not be done at all ? neither doth peter altogether exclude the putting away the filth of the flesh , as not to be practised , and place the business of baptism wholly in the answer of a good conscience , as you here say he doth , but rather places the baptism that saves in both these * , not in either without the other , yea in that he saies thus , baptism doth also now save us , not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience , he includes the baptism with water , as that , which is to be done , but not to be rested in as available to salvation , without the other . ranterist . there is no man sent by christ to baptize , so that were i never so willing to be baptized , yet there is none to baptize me : for though it should be granted , which neverthelesse is false , and cannot be evinced out of the scripture , that the apostles were sent to baptize with water , yet this doth not warrant others to do so likewise , unlesse they can prove that whatsoever was spoken to the apostles was spoken to them , and by this account they must go into all nations , and make them disciples having first stayed at ierusalem till they have been indued with power from on high , for both things are injoined to the apostles by christ. baptist. that the apostles were not sent to baptize in water in such a sense as paul saies cor. . christ sent not him to baptize in i. e. to dispense that ordinance necessarily with their own hands , so but that when they had preacht and converted persons to the faith , others might help ●o administer it , i granted above , but that they were not sent to preach the gospel i. e. the baptism of faith and repentance for remission of sins among all nations , as far as they were capable , and that baptism in water was not a part of that gospel ministration , which was committed to them , to command all nations to observe , and to see dispensed , on all that should be discipled therein , this i utterly deny , and the contrary to it is so clearly evinced in the word , that he that runs may read it , for either christ commanded them mat. . to teach baptizing , not with the spirit , but in water , or else peter miserably mistook his commission , that in obedience thereto presses ● of people at once , enquiring what they should do , to be baptized in the name of the lord jesus , promising onely , that so doing they should , not from him surely , but from christ receive the holy spirit , act. . . and also concerning a people , that were already baptized with the spirit , asks who can forbid water why these may not be baptized ? commanding them , who were ready to hear no more then what was commanded him of god to deliver to them , act. . . to be baptized in the name of the lord : and if by the apostles you mean the eleven onely , that were within hearing , when christ spake , as t is to him , that is not afraid of cold water , undoubtedly true , that these were , so as undeniable it is that others were sent to baptize in water as well as they viz. philip that baptized the samaritans , and eunuch , paul that baptized so many of the corinthians as he did , and ananias that baptized him , or else they made and preacht a gospel of their own heads , another gospel , and not christs , which if they did , they made more hast then good speed to themselves , for such as teach for doctrines of christ their own traditions , and run before they are sent , do both worship god in vain , and shall neither of them have any thank from him for their labour : and that what was spoken to those apostles themselves as to the point of baptism , was spoken also to us , even to such in all nations , as being once discipled are after that enabled from god to preach the gospel , is no l●sse evident then all the rest matth. . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you , among which water baptism was one v. . and whereas you say upon this account we must go into all nations and make them disciples , who doubts but that t is our duty so to do to the utmost of our power ( and they could do no more ) for that 's commanded , and baptism too , to be observed to the end ; but for their staying at ierusalem till they were indued with power from on high and beginning first to preach there , that did concern them only as a special circumstance for that time , not pertaining to the substance of the service , nor required of all the apostles themselves , and administrators of baptism then , ( for if it had ananias , philip , paul began at the wrong end of their businesse , when one of them began to preach the gospel at samaria , the other at damascus , not going up to ierusalem first gal. . . ) and if not of them why it should be of us i know not : neverthelesse as to the substance of that command i grant that every one is to tarry till he be indued more or lesse with power , i. e. boldnesse , wisdome , knowledge , utterance , resolution , self denyall &c. before he goes out as christs messenger to preach to the nations : but being so indued , and furnished must out * ( for ought i know ) among all people , as he hath ability , and occasion beginning at the place where he is , and proceeding to spread the gospel afar off , if he find not work enough neerer home . ranterist : could it be proved , as it cannot , that there are some sent to baptize yet even then will it not follow that i , and such as i am ought to be baptized by them , for we do not read that any of the apostles , or apostolike men did ever baptize any but such as are newly converted to the christian religion , but i and such as i am have from our infancy imbraced the christian religion , and no other , now if our adversaries did rightly infer that because there is neither precept nor example in scripture , for baptizing of infants therefore it is a needlesse thing , in like manner i may as tru●y conclude , for asmuch as their is neither precept nor example in scripture for baptizing such as have been bred up in the christian religion and never professed any other , i and su●h as i am have no need at all to be baptized . baptist. that some are sent to baptize is proved above , and sure enough , if it be ( as we see t is act. . - . , . mens duty to be baptizd , or else christ hath required a service of every man , and that sub poenâ too * , and yet though never so willing to be baptized , left them in no possible capacity to perform it for want of provision of administrators : but that you and such as you are , yea and that though some are sent to baptize , have such a supersedeas from being baptized as you pretend to be vouchsafed you by christ jesus , because you have been long of it , and been bred up in the christian religion is such a strange piece of businesse as i know not in any wise what to make of , who , in foro hominum , & ecclesiae , at least , take baptism to be the visible badge that so distinguishes between those that are of the christian religion , and other people , that who so shall say he is of the christian religion , and yet never was , nor will be baptized , must excuse me if , according to the tenor of christs testament , i own him not as yet to be a christian. what you call the christian religion , in which you say you were bred up , i know not : if you mean the doctrines of faith , repentance , and good manners , alone as yet , and abstract from baptism , this ( whether it be a great while , or but a little while since you began to put it in practise , the matter is much at one , for degrees , as to the length or shortnesse of the time since we were converted , do not vary the nature of the case ) this i say is so far from exempting , that t is the onely thing ingaging you to baptism , and howbeit you say there is neither ( as i am sure there is not for baptizing infants ) yet you cannot possibly , but see that there is both president , and precept for the baptizing of all believers , and of all in any nations that are discipled : so that if you have been converted not lately but long ago , and remained till now unbaptized , you have so much the more need to hasten to it , and instead of being held excused from now doing it at all , because you did it not when first you should , to be ex●uscitated in the words of ananias to paul saying , and now why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized , and wash away thy sins , calling on the name of the lord. but if by the christian religion , which you say you were bred up in , you mean either that christian religion of the rantizer that teaches men to change the ordinances of christ , that of baptism specially , as to its form and subject , and to make void his command through his tradition of a new baptism to all , or that christian religion of the ranter that so rebells against that law of christ that he will give way to have now no water baptism at all , these two religions , as christian as you count and call them , are both but anti-christian with me . ranterist . you make such a deal of do about water baptism as so needful , that there may be no church-fellowship held without it , but for ought i see yet t is a matter of no such weight , but that we may serve god as acceptably to the full without it , for in christ iesus neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but faith , which worketh by love gal. . . circumcision is nothing , and uncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping the commandaments of god cor. . . baptist. t is true , that when paul spake this , which was when there was an abolition of circumcision , so far as was consistent with the jewes ability to bear it , and when it was now de jure to grow out of date , then circumcision was nothing , and uncircumcision nothing , so that t was altogether needlesse to be circumcised , but as nothing as it is now , yet so something was it once , when that testament it was the sign of stood , that every soul , of whom it was then required , that was not circumcised was to be cut off from having fellowship with that church and people , and as nothing as this baptism or no baptism is with you now , yet no lesse then this at least must we say of the unbaptized , that every soul that shall refuse to be baptized , is to have no fellowship with christs church , and people : acts . . . secondly , as nothing as circumcision , and uncircumcision , baptism or no baptism are with you , yet faith which worketh by love is something , as paul himself also doth seem to hint , and the keeping of the commandements of god , which love to the lord jesus he that saies he can expresse without keeping his commandements , among which baptism in water is not the least , and without counting those commands of his not too grievous to submit to , makes either christ a lyar , or elle himself , ioh. . . iohn . . . iohn . . . thus farre concerning water baptism , to which in the primitive times there were , and in all times also , wherein it is or shall be truly dispenst , and sincerely submitted to , there assuredly are , or will be two other baptisms concomitant , viz. first , a baptism with sufferings . secondly , a baptism with the holy spirit , to support under those sufferings in order to the being baptized with the last of which baptisms , there was then an ordinance , or administration of christ viz. prayer and laying on of hands , which was practised toward all believers after baptism in water , which as it was kept on foot from the apostles daies and downward among the churches of christ in after ages , and is , as to the substance of the service , kept on with far lesse corruption and alteration , then that which yet cleaves to their baptism , among all but the presbyterian part of the national priesthood and people , so that it is of right to be used in order to the self same end , and in the self same manner now as then it was , because the present use , and practise thereof is so openly ( not to say obstinately ) denied not onely by the ranter , who rases the whole foundation , and the presby●erian and independent rantizer , who rase down that , or at least do not raise it , but also by several societies of persons baptized , who to the great grief of such congregations as own the whole truth , and are built upon the whole foundation or beginning doctrine of the prophets and apostles , do yet ignorantly withstand it , and some , even of these , bitterly band against it . i shall the lord assisting in all possible meeknesse , brevity , and plainnesse make good unto them ; and that in this one single long-winded syllogism onely ( least the presse which now presses on apace after me , and is at the very heels of me all along at my penning of this whole businesse called anti-ranterism , should overtake me , and stand still for want of such supply as it expects hourly from me , least also i out run too much ( as i have almost done already ) the bounds prefixed to this interposed treatise ) the minor proposition of which argument being proved , and cleared from those clouds of objection wherewith some strive to darken it , will both evince and evidence the continuance of that service also in its right use to this day so sufficiently , that howbeit much more might be spoken , yet no more shall at this time at least by me . whatsoever was in the primitive times taught , practised , dispensed or submitted to , own'd or observed as a command of christ , as one of the oracles or holy things of god , as a part of that foundation on which the true visible church is built , as one of the very principles of the doctrine of christ , as a practical part of the law , will , and testament of christ concerning them in order to their receiving the holy spirit of promise according to the promise , at their first beginning to be disciples , at or about the time of their baptism and before actual fellowship in the visible church , in all the churches , and among all baptized believers , even men and women without exception of any , without the least hint of any limitation of it to those times onely , and without the least intimation to us in the word of christ that t was his will it should then cease , and hath also plain injunction form christ for its continuance , for its being taught to , and observed by the disciples , that should be successively in all the world through all nations and generations of it to the end , and hath also the same ends , grounds and reasons why it was to be used continuing still to this day as much as then , is certinly in the same manner , as then , to be observed to this very day . but on this wise is that service of prayer and laying on of hands , not onely on officers , deacons , elders , messengers in order to their receiving of the holy spirit to impower them in a fuller measure for those severall functions , but also on common disciples men and women in order to their receiving the holy spirit in such manner and measure as christ iesus shall be pleased to impart it in , to comfort them under sufferings , and make them fit for fellowship in the body or visible church . therefore that service of laying on of hands with prayer on common disciples , men and women , as well as that on officers in order to their offices , is now to be observed as in former daies . the first proposition is so undoubtedly true , that if any should be so irrational as to deny it , ( as i judge none will , but the rakesham ranter that regards neither god nor devil , and reckons on all christs commands as not worth a rush ) i shall be more rationall then to believe him to be a man fit to reason with , or that it can be to any purpose in never so reasonable a manner to bespeak him . as for the minor wherein t is affirmed that the businesse of prayer and laying on of hands after baptism in water upon every disciple man or woman is such as was taught , practised , dispensed , submitted to , ownd , and observed as an ordinance , and command of christ &c. as it followes in the major , that remains yet to be cleared , which by that time i shall have done in each of those particulars that are there asserted of it , either expressely , or by such plain and legitimate deductions , and inferences from the scripture as may be justly satisfactory to any sincere souls that love truth , and allow others to draw inferences from the word ( without which who can prove that he shall be saved ? * ) as well as themselves , and by discovering the weaknesse of such exceptions as are ordinarily made against the present use of this rite or service , t wil be more then high time for me to quit this subject also : whereas therfore contrary to what is asserted in the very front of the foregoing argument , viz. that laying on of hands was taught in the primitive times , i find it intimated to us by way of query , that some , who even therefore as well as for other reasons by them rendred cannot practise it , are in no wise satisfied that such a thing as laying on of hands on all baptized believers , was ever taught by either christ or his apostles ; * in proof of this that laying on of hands was taught , i send such as doubt of it first to the name of doctrine of christ , by which in common together with the other five principles of it , it is denominated heb. . . . leaving the principles of the doctrine of christ , not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god , and of the doctrine of baptisms and of laying on of hands , which denomination of doctrine of christ could not possibly belong to it properly , but that it was somewhere , or at sometime or other taught by either christ or his apostles or disciples , in the judgement of any that are but so far learned as to know whence the word doctrine is derived , which , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the greek is of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so is of doceo to teach : but secondly , whereas t is desired that we should ( if we know of any ) direct to some place of scripture , where ever christ , or any of his apostles or disciples did preach this doctrine that all baptized believers ought to practise or submit unto laying on of hands , for my own part i shall direct the enquirers to several scriptures , in one of which as it is expresse enough , so in the rest its plain enough to such as are not more resolved to proceed in propounding questions , then , when they are answered to be resolved , that some or other of the apostles or disciples of christ did teach and preach that doctrine : the first of these is heb. . . where to that church of the hebrews or iews the very platform to all the rest , which , ( as to its more compleat outward form and order , and that denomination of the church , to which god added dayly such as should be saved , ) had its first being , and beginning under peters teaching act. . t is said thus viz. whereas for the time ye ought to be teachers , ye have need to be taught again , which be the first principles of the oracles of god. where note first from the words taught again , that they were taught once before all the principles of the doctrine of christ , whereof this laying on of hands is said to be one : and not only so , but secondly , from these words you ought to be teachers , that by this time they should have been of ability to teach these principles to others , which also shews that these principles ought all along still to be taught : moreover if it be queried where or by whom these hebrewes were at first taught this a b c , these principles of the oracles of god there spoken of , is it not as clear as the sun to any serious , understanding , considerate spirit that it was by peter at ierusalem in his first preaching there in obedience to christs commission , mat. . after power was come upon him from on high , in act. . which i direct to as a second place wherein we may find it preached ? did not peter there lay this foundation of the principles of the doctrine of christ among them in preaching , as they did themselves in practising , heb. ▪ . and howbeit the whole form of the doctrine he there delivered is not set down , as none of the doctrine that philip preacht at samaria is , nor of that paul preacht at philippi act. . . nor at corinth act. . . yet is it not by sundry passages as evident that he taught that principle of laying on of hands among all the rest , as it is ( and how evident that is , is shewed above ) that they in those other places preached baptism ? shall we think that peter taught the principles of the doctrine of christ , all which he was to lay as one foundation among them , by the halves ? did he build them upon one part of the foundation , and not on the other part ? did he constitute them partly upon it , and partly beside it ? did he teach them all the rest of the principles ( every of which its said heb. . . they had been taught ) viz. faith , repentance , baptism , resurrection , and judgement , and did he leave out that one onely of laying on of hands , specially since it s said that with many other words he exhorted that people , who are said there also to continue in the apostles doctrine ? what man that devotes himself to the comparing of scripture with scripture can imagine it ? and if not , why not be satisfied that it was preacht by some at least of christs apostles to all baptized believers ? a third scripture i direct the inquirers unto , is act. . . . . . . . whence first its evident from the apostles administring , and the samaritans submission to it , that the doctrine in the purport and tendency of it , was first declared , ( unlesse we shall judge the saints at samaria were such idiots as to act by implicit faith , as men were not to do , but by comparison of what they said with the scriptures , under the ministry of the apostles themselves act. . . and to yield blind obedience to they knew not what , the apostles also justifying them in it , which if they did , then you that professe your selves to be yet ignorant in that service , and that you know not the meaning of it may submit to it as safely , though as senslessely , as they , from the hands of such as do ; which yet when all is done i am sure you may not : but secondly , more evident yet if you weigh some passages of that text it self , the words whereof are on this wise viz. then went philip down unto samaria and preached christ to them , v. . and when they believed the things spoken by philip pertaining to the kingdom of god , they were baptized both men and women , when they at ierusalem heard that samaria had received the word of god , they sent unto them peter and john , who when they were come , prayed for them that they might receive the holy spirit , for as yet he was fallen upon none of them , onely they were baptized in the name of the lord iesus , then laid they their hands on them , and they received the holy spirit . it s said that philip preached christ , and spoke of the things pertaining to the the kingdome of god , and that they received the word of god , which they did not surely , so much as to believe what was to be done , till he had preached it , now can any rationall man think , that he preached christ and the things pertaining to his kingdome , and the word of god , and not preach so much as all the principles of the oracles of god , not so much as all the first rudiments or whole beginning word of christ ? but left out imposition of hands onely among all the rest , as none of the word of christ , nor of the things pertaining to his kingdome as not to be preacht , no not in that juncture wherein immediately after it was to be , and accordingly was , so universally submitted to by them , and dispenst unto them ? or if you say they received not that word of laying on of hands from philip , but from peter and iohn . i answer , t is true practically from the hands of peter and iohn dispensing it , but by faith , so as to believe it to be a practicable doctrine that was their duty to own , from the mouth of philip dispensing the doctrine , of it , or suppose that philip spake nothing of it till peter and iohn came , which is non supponendum , yet is it likely that the apostles that were sent to them from ierusalem , though nothing is said of that they said , that therefore they said nothing to them at all ? yea will right reason ever receive this for truth , that the apostles were sent to samaria upon the account of some service ( whether solely that of prayer and laying on of hands it matters not so long as that was one part of it at least ) and yet neither acquaint them ( whether before acquainted with it or no ) to what end and purpose they came , and what was the end and purport of that service they onely or mainly came for ? he that can receive this let him receive it , for my part i professe i cannot . a fourth place from whence it is easily gathered that the doctrine of laying on of hands in order to their receiving the holy spirit , was wont to be preached to all baptized believers is act. . , . . where paul speaking to the whole company of disciples that he found at ephesus , the number wherof were then but about twelve , among whom the doctrine of laying on of hands in order to the receiving the holy spirit had not been preached at the time of their baptism , seems to reprove and blame the neglect of it , enquiring whether they had not received the holy spirit , supposing surely at least that the promise of it had been to them , and prayer made for them in the usual way , with laying on of hands that they might receive it , but marveiling much that they , being baptized believers , had not been informed about these matters , nor had so much as heard of the holy spirit , have you received the holy ●pirit ? ( saies he ) no nor so much as heard of it , ( say they ) no ? unto what then were you baptized ( saies he ) if at least you have not so much as heard of it ? as who should say , who baptized you i wonder , and did not so much as instruct you about the spirit , nor , laying on their hands , pray for you that you might receive the spirit ? this plainly shewes that by right they should all about the time of their baptism in water have heard of the holy spirit , and in what way it was to have been expected by them , even that of laying on of hands , none of all which they having so much as heard of as yet , paul therefore after some words of fuller information to them , and such other passages as fell out thereupon laid his hands on them verse . in order to their receiving the holy spirit . these scriptures ( what they are to others i know not ) are to me a cleer , and safe conduct into the belief of this truth , that the doctrine of laying on of hands with prayer in order to receiving the holy spirit , both was in the primitive times , and was to be preached to all baptized believers , as that which was no lesse then their duty to own and submit to have dispensed to them . and as it was so universally taught , and preached , so was it as universally in those times practised , dispensed , submitted to , ownd and observed in all the churches , and among all baptized believers , even men and women without exception : this is evident out of the four forenamed places viz. * in the first of which it is not only expresse that they , i. e. all that jewish church had been taught this principle among the rest , but also that it had been practically owned and observed among them as well as all the rest : for as it s said there of all the principles together that these jewes had need to be taught them again , so that they should not now lay them again , but go on to perfection , which shews that as these principles had been all preacht to them all , so all these jewes or hebrews did once lay them all as a foundation at their first beginning to be a church , and therfore this of laying on of hands among the rest . in the second we read that paul laid his hands on all the baptized believers that he found at ephesus , being then no more in number then about . speaking ( as it were ) by way of blame , and reproof of those by whom they were baptized , that this was not also done by them at their baptism , in order to their receiving the holy spirit , much more in that they were not so much as informed that there was a holy spirit to be expected by them ver . . . which may serve also as an argument to them , that say , as some of the inquirers do , that the reproof of the omission of any service doth evince that that service ought to have been performed , and as an answer also to the fourth question of the abovenamed enquirers with the ground thereof which is this viz. * in the third place we find it most expressely asserted that peter and iohn prayed for them that they might receive the holy spirit , and laid their hands on them i. e. all those men and women ( for that 's the only substantive to this pronoun them in that place , of whom it s said before that they were baptized in the name of the lord iesus : which word only they were baptized intimates to us thus much also , viz. that though they had submitted so far as to baptism , yet they had not practised all that was to be practised by them , but that some other service was yet behind , which ought to be performed towards them , viz. that of laying on of hands . in the fourth it s asserted also most plainly that all the three thousand believers that were baptized did gladly receive the word , i. e. the word that peter preacht to them , who exhorted them with many other words then those that are there specified , viz. repentance and baptism , and that they continued in the apostles doctrine , of which word and doctrine , if we may judge the word or doctrine of christ & the apostles to be one and the same ) laying on of hands was part as well as faith , repentance , baptism , resurrection , and judgement , heb. . . . besides , if the word and doctrine of christ that was preacht and practised at jerusalem was the self same word and doctrine , that was after preacht and practised at samaria , then we may safely gather that whatever was preacht and practised by them at samaria had been preacht and practised by them at ierusalem before , from whence they came immediately to samaria , where its easie to be discerned by any but such as will bend their brains to multiply impertinencies , and to make blu●ies to themselves , and others in businesses that are beyond doubt to impartial inquirers , that they laid hands , praying for them that they might receive the holy spirit , on all those believers there that were baptized , whether men or women without exception , if we may as warrantably understand the men and women , that are said to be baptized v. . to be the same persons that are said to be baptized in the name of the lord jesus v. . and the same persons that are denoted by that pronoun them v. . . . as i am sure we cannot warrantably , because not congruously , do otherwise ? for who else can be meant all along but the very same ( and not some of them onely , but even all the same , even the men and women , that are related above to be baptized ? ) for whereas its said ver . . when they believed , they were baptized both men and women , and v. . that the holy spirit was fallen upon none of them , onely they were baptized , must not they and them there be taken for all those that are said to be baptized above ? and so consequently when it is said ver . . that they prayed for them , and ver . . that they laid their hands on them , doth not them denote out the very same ? yet this cannot be digested for truth with some of the inquirers , for t was asserted as his opinion ( the rest assenting to it by their silence ) by one of those with whom we had some discourse at ely house ma●ch . . ( whether the same be the sense of all those that sent him i know not ) that peter and iohn did not with prayer lay hands on all the baptized believers at samaria , but on the men only , and not on the women . * and whereas in proof of the contrary i asserted that the pronoun them in v. . . . . doth relate to not the men onely , but the men and women , even all those that are said to be baptized , as the adaequate substantive with which it did agree : t was answered by him to this purpose ( a pretty put off i confesse , but nothing to the purpose ) viz. that the scripture had expressions both particular , indefinite , and universal , that the word them here , as t was not a particular , so t was not an universal ( for then it would have been said all them ) but an indefinit expression , signifying some onely not all , whereby he bewrayed his too little acquaintance with one received rule among the rationallists , viz. that an indefinite proposition , or expression in a necessary matter is equivalent ever to an universal : howbeit my reply to him then was not so , but on this wise , viz. that if we must take them but indefinitely only , for some and not all the persons or things before spoken of , unlesse that particle all be added to it , then we had consequently no clear command from matth. . , . to baptize all that are discipled , and converted to the faith , for by the pronoun them , that is there used also , we must not mean all them , but some of them onely in the nations that are discipled , because it s not said all them , but meerly them , but i intreated him from his conscience to tell me whether he did think , that when christ saies go teach all nations baptizing them , teaching them , he meant that they should baptize all them , or but some of them only in the nations that were discipled , his return was that if there were not other places that did more clearly prove it that christ commanded that all should be baptized then matth . he could not see it fully commanded there : and being desired to assign any place , wherein christ did more universally command baptism then there , he directs us to luke . . where it s said the pharisees rejected the counsel of god against themselves in not being baptized : whence he gathered that baptism was the councel , and consequently the commandement of god to all men , because they are here reproved for rejecting it , which if it be a sound argument to prove baptism to be the command of god to all men , because the pharisees in particular ( for the pharisees is but a particular expression indigitating one single sort of men among all the rest , and not so much as an indefinit , much lesse an universal ) because i say the pharisees in particular are reproved for refusing to obey it , how much better may we collect that both baptism , and laying on of hands with prayer for the spirit , are commanded by god to all men , because we find all those , save simon , ( witnesse his giving them his holy spirit ) recorded as most highly approved of god , that at any time did reject neither , but silently submit themselves both ? those passages between that my beloved friend , and my self i could not conscientiously neglect to set down , least i should seem to love any man more then the truth , for the sake of which principally , and partly for his also , and theirs he walks with , whom i love in truth , as far as they love the truth , i write this , that he , reviewing here his own empty evasions , may more evidently discern himself to be mistaken in many things , then he may be capable to do in a discourse by word of mouth , and that they remembring , how they in proof of baptism it self to be christs command to all believers , are necessitated to use such cloudy inferences and deductions , as those above , may excuse us more then many , if not most , of that party do , if in proof of laying on of hands to be the duty of all baptized believers , we take the like liberty to our selves in order to their satisfaction , to use more clear inferences and deductions , then those , out of scripture , and out of heb. . . it self , as t will appear that we do , to reason it self rightly acted in comparing of scripture with scripture , which i for my part refer the enquirers unto as the surest rule to try the spirits by , and to try all inferences , or deductions by , because the best of men are liable to mistakes , and sure enough to fall into them , if ceasing to exercise their reason in deducing , inferring , and gathering one thing out of another , they will receive nothing for truth , though otherwise never so plain , even to common sense and reason , unlesse they find it in so many words in scripture , as t is by us exprest in : and this is all that i shall trouble my self to say in reference to the seventh and eighth questions of the late enquirers with the grounds thereof , which are laid down in these words . and now further to prove the minor of the forecited syllogism in some other particulars of it that remain unproved , viz. that laying on of hands was not only taught , and practised , dispenst and submitted to , ownd and observed among all baptized believers in the primitive times , but all this as by command from god. i argue thus viz. either by command from god or without it ; but neither without nor against command from god , ergo by it : the consequence of the first proposition is most clear , for whatever gospel administration was never commanded by god to be dispensed , is practised ( if practised at all ) as a tradition of men , and without , nay against gods command , whose command it is , * that no man shall presume to teach for doctrines of his the traditions or commandments of men : the minor is as clear that the apostles did not teach for doctrines of christ any traditions of their own , for as paul who was one of them that practised laying on of hands , saies of himself . cor. . . that he received from christ that which he delivered unto the church at corinth , so may we say on the behalf of all the rest , as concerning what doctrines they delivered , and dispensations they practised to the churches : for surely as christ the great , and immediate messenger from the father could do nothing of himself , was not to do his own will , but the will of his father which sent him , nor to speak or do any thing , but as the father gave him commandement , confessing that even his doctrine was not his own , but his that sent him , x so they that were the great , and immediate messengers from christ might speak , and do nothing in things pertaining to him , but as god by him gave commandements unto them : * neither were any doctrines they delivered among the churches their own , nor any other then the doctrines of christ , whereupon though as christs doctrine and commandements are called his , because he preacht and gave them from god , and yet were not his own but the fathers , so theirs are called the doctrine and commandements of the apostles , as they had them immediately from him , yet are they not their own , but the doctrine and comman-of christ , * and had they done any thing more then they had order for from him , who from him were to give order to the churches , either in the point of laying on of hands or any thing else , they would surely have heard harshly from him for it , & been reproved by the spirit in the word , but as to this service of prayer and laying on of hands on all baptized believers , in many places he is recorded as approving of them in all they did . moreover , that laying on of hands was taught , and practised not of their own heads , but ( as t is asserted in the argument ) as a practical part of the law , will , and testament of christ concerning baptized believers , as one of the oracles or holy things of god , as one of the very principles of the doctrine of christ , as a part of the foundation , or beginning word of christ ( as well as baptism ) or of the foundation of the prophets and apostles , on which the true visible church is built as upon a certain basis , and from which the whole building growth up an holy temple in the lord toward perfection , an habitation of god through the spirit , being first fitly framed together by a joint , uniform , visible obedience unto that one whole form of doctrine * whereof , i say this laying on of hands was a part , and was practised at their first beginning to be disciples at or about the time of their baptism , and before actual fellowship in the visible church , this all is clear enough of it self to him that consults heb. . . . . considerately comparing them with eph. . . . . rom. . . act. . . . . . . . . . . . out of all which places , at least collectively consulted with , we cannot but see that after baptism , and before fellowship in one body , or building in higher things there was this of laying on of hands , practised , owned , observed , as one of the first principles of gods oracles , of christs doctrine , antecedent to fellowship , and laid as a part of that first form of doctrine that was delivered and obeyed ( after obedience to the whole of which they were counted babes in christ , new born , begotten to him , belonging to him , and in present capacity ( as no fleshly babes are ) to be added and admitted into his church ) and as one piece of that foundation or word of the beginning of christ * , on which the church it self is built , and therefore necessarily precedent among persons to their fellowship together in it , for the foundation must ever be wholly laid even in every part of it ( and therefore why not in laying on of hands ? ) before there can be any firm , or any but a deformed or defective building : no more therefore as unto that : again that it was dispensed together with prayer for it on all baptized believers in order to their receiving the holy spirit t is not denied by any , for ought i know , as indeed it is undeniable to all , act. . . . . . . . and further , there is not the least hint of any limitation of that doctrine of laying on of hands on all baptized believers to those times onely , or intimation in the word of christ that t was his mind there should then be a cessation of it , any more then there is of baptizing all believers , or any other ordinance , or outward administration , or any other of the principles of christs doctrine , if there be , i desire of the enquirers , who use inferences themselves , and yet allow not us to speak any thing , as to the continuance of this ordinance , but some expresse text of scripture , to shew some scripture ( if they know of any ) that speaks expressely ( or if it be but consequentially , it shall serve my turn ( though from us it will not theirs ) so the consequence be legitimate , and truly rational ) of the continuation of all other the principles of the doctrine of christ , and the cessation of onely this of laying on of hands on all baptized believers : for what we are sure was in use among all baptized believers in the primitive times , it concerns them that call for a cessation of it alone , among all the principles of gods oracles , to shew us some plain word of christ , for the right of such a cessation of that onely , and no other before they blame us for calling on them for a continuance of that still : but for my part as i find none , so i suppose they may look till their eyes are weary before they can out of christs testament , not a tittle of which is yet disanul'd , produce any text tending to such a purpose . and because i have inserted and asserted no lesse in the minor of the argument i am yet in proving then this viz. that as there 's no intimation of any cessation of laying on of hands on all baptized believers till such time as the work of baptizing all believers it self shall cease , but also a plain injunction from christ for the continuance of the one of these as long as the other , and for a continual teaching and observation of both as well as either among all the disciples that should be in all nations to the worlds end , i le direct the enquirers to a plain text of scripture for it , viz. matth. . . whence suppositis supponendis taking it for granted , till i shall see more then ever i have yet seen from them , or i believe ever shall see from any to the contrary , that the dispensation , practise , use and observation of laying on of hands among the apostles , and the primitive baptized believers , who expected that whatever the apostles delivered to them was first commanded them of god , act. . . was no other then what god commanded then to them all , it is as plain as the high way that the very same is commanded to be continued downwards , even to be taught to , and observed by all that ever should be discipled in the nations to the worlds end ; for on the very day in which christ was taken up after that he through the holy spirit had given commandments to the apostles , whom he had chosen , being seen of them four'y daies after his resurrection , and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdome of god ( among which i quaery , of the enquirers whether laying on of hands were not one ? ) he expresly charges them , that whatever he had taught and enjoined them to observe ; they should teach all the nations , i. e. the disciples and baptized believers in all nations to observe the very same , promising his presence in the observation of the same among his disciples , not to the end of that generation , or age onely , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as i have shewed above , to the end of the very world itself . going out teach all nations baptizing them , i. e. that believe , teaching them i. e. the now newly baptized believers , to observe all things , whatsoever i have commanded you , and therefore laying on of hands surely , it being one of the principles of his doctrine , and lo i am with you , i. e. not your persons onely but your party , not your selves onely whilest you live , but your successors also , in what age soever they shall live in the observation of what i have commanded you , and shall command them by you , alwaies to the end of the world . finally that laying on of hands on baptizd believers hath the same ends , grounds and reasons why it was to be used , continuing still to this very day , as much as as in the primitive times , is as evident as all the rest : for as the grounds and reasons why they observed such a service then were , and could be no other then the manifestation of it to ●hem from christ to be his holy command , mind and will concerning them , and to be a certain outward administration of his own chusing , which tho●gh as despicable a dispensation , and as weak , low , foolish , earthen , and empty a thing to see to as wash in iordan , yet was to be done , sith the lord had bidden it to be done , as well , yea rather then if it had been some greater matter , if to no other end , then meerly to testify their love to him , and themselves meerly to be his disciples , servants , and friends by observing whatever he commanded iohn . . . . . iohn . . how much more when it was a way , and order of his own appointment to be observed , and to wait upon him in , together with prayer and supplication , in order to such a glorious and profitable end , and purpose to themward , as this , viz. that they waiting on him in that his own way , might ( as not onely they did , but all others shall , that wait on him in the same in sincerity according to their faith , or else its possible that we may fail of it as they also might and did ) in his measure manner and time receive his holy spirit . now ( i say ) as these were the ends , grounds and reasons , why among baptized believers this of laying on of hands was observed then , so there are the same ends , grounds and reasons , why the same service should be observed now , for first we have it manifested as sufficiently to our reason and understanding ( unlesse we will darken the councell of god to our selves by a number of needless queries , superfluous scruples , and words without knowledge ) either expressely or by infallible inferences , and undeceivable deductions in the word to be an urepealed , undisannulled dispensation and patt , and principle of christs doctrine , will and testament , as they had , and as baptism it self , which the enquirers walk still in the practice of , is manifested so to be : secondly , we are also as much required , and have as much reason as they to manifest our selves to be lovers of christ , to be his disciples , servants , and friends by our readinesse to do whatsoever he hath commanded . thirdly we are in as much liablenesse as they to be the least in the kingdome of heaven , if we break one of the least of christ commandements , and teach men so i e. that they may do so too * , and as much capablenesse of being greatest in the kingdom of heaven , if we do the least of christs commandements , and teach men so i. e. that they must do so too . fourthly , we have as much need of the holy spirit now as they had to perform the same good offices for us as he did for them viz. to comfort and support under sufferings , to lust against our flesh , to lead us into all truth , to bring to our remembrance the things that were spoken by christ , which many men would fain have to be forgotten , to help to mortifie the deeds of our bodies to seal us up to the day of redemption , to reveal unto us , that we may rejoice therein , the things which are freely given us of god , which are the same he gives to them , and to gift us likewise with such gifts as he , not as we shall please * ( for beggers must not be chusers ) for fellowship in the body , that we may be an habitation of god through the spirit , and to gift some also , even such as he pleases , for the work of the ministry , and the edifying of the body in the several offices he hath given to it for the ervice of it , and the truth viz. messengers , elders , deacons &c. for all this he did for them . * fifthly , we are as much under the promise of the same holy spirit of promise a being baptized believers , as they were b for the promise of it was to them that were far off as well as to them that were nigh , whether in respect of time or place , and therefore to us , yea , and to all men on the same terms on which it was tendred to them . c all that repent and are baptized , all that turn at christs reproof , all that believe , all that ask the father for it , all that obey him to the worlds end have on these terms a promise of the holy spirit as well as all the baptized believers of the primitive times , and why the baptized believers of these times should have all these ends , grounds and reasons why , and in order to which laying on of hands with prayer was dispenst on all baptized believers then , continuing till now , and yet that dispensation cease and not continue in its use ; and that they should have the promise of the same spirit , and yet not be bound to wait on god , and seek it in the same way is a very riddle to me : i confesse there may be through the unbelief of baptized believers , who will not take gods word in his word , but say shew us a sign that we may see and believe , shew us such visible gifts , shew us miracles , the gift of healing , and in particular that gift of tongues * ; which thou gavest to baptized believers in the primitive times , in this way of prayer and laying on of hands , and we will submit to it , and believe it to be thy will and command to us now , else not : i say for their unbeliefs sake that obey not , and their too too great defect in faith that do draw neer to god in prayer and laying on of hands , there may be , and that justly , and i think is , a cessation of gods giving out such measures and full manifestations of his spirit as else he would , yet some gifts he gives now , and that there is warrant to expect , by any promise thereof , some particular gifts that god , for signs of confirmation of the gospel doctrine to be from heaven in the first giving of it out and removing the old testament , gave in the primitive times , as miracles , tongues , this i deny , but that he gives not the gift of the spirit , and the graces of it , which was the thing mainly promised , and not so much in plurali the gifts of it , as men count gifts distinct from the fruits of it gal. . temperance , love , joy , peace , &c. as if these were not the spirits gifts , much more that the promise of the self same spirit it self ( though it appear not in every individual gift that we out of curiosity desire to see ) doth not cease to us , and that there is no cestation of that outward administration of laying on of hands with prayer on baptized believers , which christ then was sought to in , for the fulfilling of his promise , this i dare , and do still affirm , and testifie , neither do i judge any man is capable by the word to give any sound reason why it should cease , it being a principle of the doctrine of christ , till all the principles of the whole foundation spoken of eph. . . heb. . . . on which the visible church is to be built , and all ordinances do cease also together with it at christs next appearing . thus having sufficiently proved the minor of the forenamed argument in each particular of it , in which as neerly as i could well croud them together are coucht as many , if not all such particulars are needful to be proved to the evincing of the continuance of this doctrine and dispensation , of laying on of hands to the end , i shall hasten to an end both of this subject , and of this system also : but because i find some things put in by way of positive exception , and objection against this truth , from the mouthes of some , as well as something by way of query from the pens of others , who also in that way have appeared against it so newly at the the presse , viz. the late enquirers above-named , a remnant of whose questions ●emain yet unanswered here , though not so unanswerable as some do deem them , i shall adde a word or two more toward the removeal of these two sorts of blinding bushes , whereby i fear many may be infatuated so as to turn and● from the way of truth in this particular , and so leave both it , and them unto the lord. first then whereas by word of mouth some tell me , that laying on of hands was a way peculiar to that juncture , designed of god to the time then being only , wherein the apostles ( say some and othersome the lord ) gave the holy spirit in some visible eminent , and extraordinary gifts thereof , as tongues prophecy , miracles , healing &c. simply to this end that these might be a sign to confirm it visibly to the eyes of people , that the doctrine they taught and practised in the principles , and other parts of it was from above , and no other then the oracles of god. first , i grant that in the primitive times , there were , and that in the way of prayer , and laying on of hands , given ( not by the apostles , though , for ( as is shewed above ) they were not baptizers with the spirit ) but by the lord onely , whose onely prerogative that is to baptize with the holy spirit , sundry gifts , as healing , &c. which may be called extraordinary , and rare respectively to these times , wherein they have bin seldome or never seen , or heard of , as i know not that that of tongues now adaies ever was , though as to that of healing , and that of discerning of spirits , and some other manifestations of the spirit given to profit withall , as a word of wisdome , and a word of knowledge , it is within a little of past doubt to some that such as these , as the lord pleases , are some lesse , some more frequently given now among them that walk in truth ( though what gifts some have seen and been sensible of in others or themselves , t is not so fit to boast of , as to be silent . ) secondly , i grant that many of this sort ( and hapily many more then either are , or need to be , or shall be given now ) were given then to confirm the new testament doctrine in the first delivery of it to the world , in the room of the old one , to be of god , of some of which there maybe a cessation , the end they had such special respect to then being sufficiently accomplished , and the word being now committed unto writing mark . , , &c. heb. . , . but thirdly , that either such gifts of the spirit as these were either the onely or the chief kind of gifts of the spirit that were to be , and were expected , lookt after or given in that way of prayer and laying on of hands , as a service destinated pro tempore only in order to the receiving of such , or that these gifts were so extraordinary in respect of the eminency or excellency of them ( because more visible and ad extra ) beyond such as may be warrantably by promise expected , and are in that way assuredly and ordinarily given at this day , these two i see no warrant to subscribe to : for as t is most sure that the promise was ( so far as i find ) in terminis nor onely , nor so oft of these things ( though i deny not but these were at that time , for ends that concern not these times promised too ) but of the spirit to several other purposes ( as above ) the holy spirit , the spirit in the fruits , and graces , and comforts of it , the gift of the holy spirit we find it all along almost in no lesse then scores of scriptures , whereof some few are more plain : so assuredly the holy spirit in that way of prayer and laying on of hands was given to baptized believers in other gifts then these viz. the graces , comforts and fruits of it love , joy , peace , assurance &c. in respect of which in case those outward gifts of the spirit should all have failed , or shall fail now , yet that dispensation is not therefore rendred empty , useless , and out of date , but remaines rather more gloriously useful , then as to external gifts of tongues and such like , continually even unto the end : yea also if we speak of gifts meerly externall , and visible , as some call them ( though for my part i judge the spirit is as visible to us and manifested to be in men by the fruits , and graces , as by those things that are more commonly , but not more properly , then those , called gifts ) i suppose his senses as well as his reason doth not a little fail him , that descerns not , not only those most excellent waies of grace , as love , joy , &c. cor. . . but even the best and most excellent , and profitable outward gift of the spirit , even that of prophecy , or speaking to exhortation , edification , and comfort ( for that is the gift of prophecy * , and the best outward gift that we can covet or compasse ) given unto baptized believers , whom we pray for and lay hands on at this day , to whom nature , and university nursery never gave it . and if any say , we see such a kind of gift as you call prophecy given also to others aswel as such as submit to it . that 's nothing to us what god does whose word binds us to such or such a way , but not himself , we are quaerying what we are required to do by him , upon the account of which we may by promise expect the holy spirit , not what god does ; god often anticipates his own promise , and is better then his word as act. . . he gave the spirit before baptism which is promised onely to baptized believers , act. . . yet that does neither give us disingagement from gods outward way , nor warrant us to expect the spirit out of it , but ingage us so much the more unto it ver . . if god will give any other men his holy spirit out of that way , i am glad ( sith it pleases himself ) he is so good to them : but as that assures me not that i ( specially if inlightned about his way , yea then assuredly i shall not ) shall have it so too , so sure i am that in his way i shall obtain it , and if any have been so highly favoured of god , as that he mercifully meets them out of his way , that does not exempt them from comming into it , but much more oblige them , if they had no further need of it ( as christ had none of baptism , save to fulfill all righteousness ) even meerly upon that account to meet him the more cheerfully in it : for thus it becometh us me thinks , as well as it did christ himself to fulfil all the righteousnes of his law . if any say , i deny not the dispensation of laying on of hands in its due seaso● even in this age , on baptized believers for the spirit , but as they were bid to tarry at ierusalem till they were indued with power from on high luke . . act. . . that they might have some men fit to go forth , and by laying on of hands give the holy spirit , being gifted and fitted by it , and filled with it first themselves ; so we must wait in prayer only , for a first giving out of it as act. . . till power come down on some to make them fit administrators of this dispensation to others , and then act in it . i say this only in short , first their expectation that some men shall , and thoughts that of old some men did baptize with the spirit is a grosse mistake , for the most they could do was but to pray for it , and barely lay on their hands , christ did the one and they the other . secondly , if we must wait , as they did till the day of pentecost , then we must till that time forbear all baptizing in water , and suspend all preaching to the world aswel as laying on of hands , but this though the apostles did so in that juncture , and intertime between christs ascension , and the descension of the holy spirit , yet our enquirers , among whom some of eminency object as abovesaid , * do in this time ( i suppose ) baptize , and increase their number by preaching the gospel to the world . thus far as to the objections : now as to what further obstructive interposal is made in way of question by the enquirers , some of whose queries viz. the second fourth , seventh and eighth , i have taken notice of above , i shall now remove it by saying a little to the residue viz. the first , third , fifth , and sixth . the first which with the ground thereof is on this wise * is rather a curious querk , then a solid question , so frivolous as is scarce fit to be answered with any thing , but not a word : yet a word neverthelesse even unto that . first , whereas they ground it upon our denial of communion with them , we desire them to know that we may more justly put the businesse of our non-communion with them upon their score , and lay the deniall of it at their own doors as their doing , not ours . i say not ours , who earnestly desire to have communion even in one body with them , and all men in a way of conformity to the word of christ , which gives neither example , nor toleration , so far as i know , for any mix● communion in one church of persons , whereof some own all the principles of the doctrine of christ , and some not only own not , but deny either all , or any of them ; if it doth shew us where ? but theirs who deny a part of that very beginning of the word of christ , or first form of his doctrine , all the several parts wherof collectively taken make that very foundation , upon the whole of which , and not part of it onely , every right visible church is built , and constituted , and besides which there can be no orderly either church or communion . secondly , whereas t is askt what persons are to say or do , ( at the administration of laying hands ) that they may be found faithful in that point ? i say that according to act. . . . the administrators are to pray for the baptized believers that they may , according to the promise act. . . receive the holy spirit , and after that to lay their hands upon them , which is eas●y enough ( i wot ) to be understood without expressing what part of the body hands are to be laid on , whether the head ( the place of our imposition , which if hands be laid on t is laying on of hands is it not ? ) or any other part * ? and ( as at baptism the believer is without gain-saying it , to yield his body to be baptized so ) at laying on of hands , the baptiz●d believer is to say nothing against it , but to give way to have i● done accordingly . the d. question with the ground thereof , which runs thus , p is even as superfluous , impertinent , vain and frivolous as the former ; for ( howbeit neither am i one of those many that have ever yet formally , and in terms desired baptized believers to require that hands should be laid on them yet ) laying on of hands on baptized believers either is christs mind , or it is not , if it be not , and the enquirers ever prove it is not , we will freely give them leave to require us to let it alone , but if it be , ( as t is proved to be above out of act. . . . . . . . . where t is so plain as to need no deduction ) then as i shall desire them to have us excused * if henceforward we desire baptized believers to require it to be dispenst to them , so i give them to understand that , it being the mind of christ , though ( as baptism also is ) one of his too too dispised dispensations , as stout , and loath to stoop to it as some baptized believers seem to be , t is no disparagement to the best of them , that are yet ( as those act. . . ) onely baptized in the name of the lord jesus , but a behaviour that may well enough beseem them to require it . the fifth question is ushered in by an introduction , consisting of nothing but division and subdivision of laying on of hands into different kinds , according to the difference of the administrators , of the persons to whom , of the accounts or ends upon which , and in order whereunto administred , as it followes in their own words thus viz we do or may read of laying on of hands upon severall occasions , differing one from the other , first , in the qualification of the administrator , as luke . . compared with mark , . the one being wicked , the other godly . secondly , differing qualifications in persons on whom hands were laid , sometimes before baptized , and sometimes after baptism , act. . . and acts . . thirdly , hands were imposed upon several accounts ( or ends ; ) sometimes to be brought before rulers , as luke . . sometimes to heal the sick , acts . . sometimes to cure the blind , act. . . sometimes to set men apart to administer temporall things acts . . sometimes to set men apart to administer spiritual things act. . . these were gifted , before hands were laid on them , sometimes hands were imposed , that men might be gifted , tim . . sometimes hands were laid on by men gifted , to give the holy ghost to them that were not set a part to office , as many of themselves say from acts . . after which their question with its ground comes in thus . * to all which viz. their introduction , ground , and question i answer as followeth . first , i deny not but that hands were laid on men then by several sorts of administrators , godly and wicked * in the several seasons of before and after baptism , to and upon several ends , purposes , and accounts , though all the several ends and cases you here distinguish by do not make so many several kinds of imposition of hands neither , so substantially distinct each from other as you would seem to make them ; for imposition of hands on baptized believers before admission , and after that before ordination to office , were one and the same in kind , distinguished onely by the different capacities of membership , and ministership , eldership , messengership , to each of which laying on of hands was antecedent , yea these were one , and the same kind of imposition of hands , used all in order to one and the same end in general viz. receiving the holy spirit , or , as occasion was , more and more of the spirit , in a measure answerable to their places , diversified onely by the different degrees or stations in the church to which they were thereby visibly designed : but what if there were never so many kinds of laying on of hands , is it therefore so impossible to determine ( as by your query you seem to imagine ) which among all the rest is meant in such or such a place ? shall we think the apostles meant to deliver the mind and doctrine of christ , and that in the very principles or first rudiments of it too , which ought to be the plainest , in such obstruse , dark and ae igmatical wayes that men should scarcely be capable possibly to know what they meant ? there 's several sorts of baptism spoken of in the scripture , is it therefore so difficult ( if men be not willing ( as some are ) to puzzle themselves besides the practise of water baptism ) to know when he speaks of water , when of sufferings , when of the spirit ? but to the question : sith some will needs , though needlesly , query which of all these layings on of lands the scripture speaks of is called the foundation , principle or beginning doctrine ? i answer that laying on of hands that t was dispensed with prayer on baptized believers , not as yet to be set apart to office , mentioned act. . . . not in order to gifted mens giving it ( for though you will mistake us do what we can , and bring us in as confessing it here , yet we ever utterly deny that any men were ever so gifted as that they could give it ) but in order to gods giving , and our receiving the holy spirit from the lord , that laying on of hands i say is it which in heb. . . . is called a principle , a part of that foundation of christs doctrine on which the visible church is built . in proof of which let this argument be considered viz. it s none of all the other kinds of laying on of lands mentioned by you , that is meant heb. . . therefore it must necessarily be that . most undoub●edly t is not that mentioned luke . . where it s said prophetically , as concerning the wickeds persecution of the saints , th●y shall lay their hands on you &c. which we read of also as fulfilled accordingly , and spoken of historically act. . . they laid their hands on the apostles , and put them in prison &c. first , because that is not simply a laying on of hands , but a laying on of violent hands ; and so it should be read ( if the word there used were rightly rendred , and translated into its true english out of the greek ) for t is not the same , but a word of a far different sense from that which is used every where else , where this doct●ine of imposition of hands is spoken of , for one sounds forth as much as a violent handling ▪ the other a gentle putting , or laying our hands upon the persons . * secondly , as for that violent laying on of hands in way of persecution wherby the saints suffer , that 's included in the doctrine of baptisms immediately foregoing , it belonging to one of the three , viz. the bitter baptism of sufferings , as a branch thereof , so that it were but confusion , and tautology to expresse that ore again , as if t were ano●her doctrine which was but a part of the doctrine going before , by another name , and such a one too as is never given it in the original , viz. of imposition of hands . thirdly , whatever doctrine is called a principle or part of the foundation of the doctrine of christ heb. . . the same is called heb. . . one of the principles of the oracles or the holy things of god. but the laying on of violent hands on the saints in way of persecution , is one of the principles of the devils doctrine , and a principal part of the very foundation of his kingdome , yea one of the most wicked things that the devil does or delivers , as christs doctrine , to his disciples . nor was it a laying on of hands , ( though such a one was used some times ) in order to healing the sick or curing the blind , that was taught as a principle , and practically ownd , and laid as a part of the foundation among all the hebrewes heb. . . . , . for they were neither all sick surely , nor all blind , when they past under this dispensation so as to have all need to have hands laid on them all upon such accounts , as healing or curing . nor was it in order to ordination of them to offices , that they might be gifted , and fitted by the spirit thereunto , for the laying on of hands there spoken of , was laid as a principle , as a part of the foundation on which the church stood , but the laying on of hands to set apart men to administer either temporal things , or spiritual things in the church is no principle , nor beginning thing , nor foundation antecedent to the church , as every foundation must be to the building , for the visible church ever since the first apostles , whose doctrine was the foundation to it , was antecedent to its officers , and not they to it : the churches were first collected , and constituted upon the foundation or first form of doctrine delivered by the apostles , and then officers were ordained in every church ; for the true visible church may be without officers , though not without ordinances , but church officers cannot be chosen , nor ordained in it till there be a church : besides this imposition heb. . . was learnt , owned and laid by the whole body of the church , whom he reproves , saying ye might have been teachers , but ye had need to be taught again , which be the first principles of the oracles of god , but they were not all at first surely by laying on of hands ordained to office . as to the sixth question of the enquirers which is also the last that i am to speak to , having spoke to the seventh and eighth above , which with the ground thereof runs thus * it is grounded upon such a grosse and grievous mistake , that i am almost amazed that of the fifteen hands that subscribe to those questions , not one of them did find occasion to subscribe his dissent to this , for whereas t is supposed , and proposed so publiquely for truth by the enquirers , that heb. . . speaks not of any one laying on of hands onely , but plurally , as of the doctrine of baptisms , its most palpably apparent to such as are not a sleep in their reading of that text , that it speaks in the singular number , of one laying on of hands alone , and not of layings on of hands , as it must have been expressed , for so you are fain to expresse it your selves , when you speak plurally of it in your fifth question , had he meant more kinds of imposition of hands then one ; for though hands be the plurall number , yet laying on , which is the phrase you speak to , or else you speak nihil ad rhombum , is a substantive of the singular number , both in the english , and in the greek , and suppose the spirit had spoken plurally of more imposions of hands then one ? must that that was act. . - . . on baptized believers be ever the more excluded , or the more incuded rather in all likelyhood among the rest ? † and because the apostle does not speak particularly enough , nor distinguish , nor expresse plainly enough what he means by shewing the end , purpose and event of the imposition here spoken of , therefore belike he meant that no body should ever own this principle at all : but the truth is he speaks of no more impositions then one , therefore , to conclude with the enquirers question propounded thus to themselves , we desire to know what safety it is for any man to conclude that question to be worthy of an answer , that is so falsely grounded as this of the enquirers is , and to conclude that heb. . . is meant of more layings on of hands , when it expresly speaks but of one ? and so dear friends , whom i love too well to spare speaking plainly to you in a case , wherein upon occasion of your putting on too too rashly in print little lesse then against it , a precious truth of christ lyes at stake between us , since you are pleased to urge and importune us so earnestly at the close of your questions by the opportunity that you have thereby put into our hands to justify our practise , viz. laying on of hands upon all baptized believers , as we love the glory of god , and the promoting of that , which we so highly esteem and hold to be truth , as we will declare our love to the truth by countenancing men , who diligently make search after it , as we tender the union and communion of the churches &c. that we would discharge our duty , and try if we could make it appear by the word of god , which i confesse with you is able to instruct us in all things ( and therefore though much might be said from the constant practise of the churches in , and bordering upon the primitive times , to the further clearing up of the truth in this point , yea men far better studied that way then i am , who yet see sufficiently to my satisfaction , tell us , that all antiquity teacheth laying on of hands after baptism * yea and some that never practised neither it nor true baptism * yet i wave all such arguments as of no weight without the word ) since also you promise us that if we so do , then you shall acknowledg the truth thereof to the glory of god , and your own shame in being ignorant so long , and speedily imbrace it , if god so assist you by his word , professing you will to that purpose expect our faithfull care to be expessed with chearfullnesse , without making delaies , in a matter of so great importance , which may unite and establish us in one mind , hereupon i could not in conscience but take so much notice of your questions ( they meeting me also just in the mouth , whilest i was musing to say some little , but not a quarter so much as here is , to evince the noncessation of this service as well as that of baptism ) as to give this transient answer as i travel along , being bound also as you hint to me , to give to every one that asketh it a reason of the hope that 's in me with meeknesse and fear : so desiring the lords blessing upon it towards you , and upon you in your examination of it , and ( as you have light ) your execution according to it , that such excaecation , as the ranter who is run out of the reach of reason , hath by little and little queried himself into may never , overtake you , i remain both yours and every ones servant for christs sake . thus much concerning the continuation of that practise of laying on of hands : now as to the present use of the ordinances of breaking of bread , and church-fellowship , i shal speak but briefly to that forasmuch as these are services the continuance of which to the end is denied doctrinally by none ( for ought i know ) but the ranter , that is run up above all , saving that the rigid presbyterians , though in words they own the supper , yet in works do deny it , for many if not most of them live in the neglect of that administration of the supper , in their parishes some four ; some five , some six , seven , eight years without any use of it at all , as if there were no such matter as that now in being ; for others , i mean a certain mixt sort of independents that are rife in these dayes , they own and practise it and church fellowship too more then enough , unlesse more orderly in respect of that antecedency to these of all the principles of the doctrine of christ , which ought to be now as it was in the primitive times , which times they pretend to reform by , taking in omnium generum , an omnigatherum of persons , men and women , whom they take to be believers , into fellowship in one visible body in breaking of bread and prayers , some whereof , having renounced their rantism as null , are truly baptized ; some as yet but meerly rantized , yet supposing themselves sufficiently baptized because of that , which can be of no use to them as a sign , for they remember it not ; some hanging in the air between both , not satisfied , whether they were truly baptized in infancy yea or no ; some doubting whether any water baptism at all be needful to be used in these times ; some convinc't that they ought to be baptized , but not yet finding any administrator , that fits their fancies ; some resolved to be baptized , but christ , who expects it from them , must wait their leasure , none reproving their procrastination , nor saying to them , as ananias , to paul , and now why tarriest thou ? arise and be baptized , and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the lord , or as peter to the iews repent and be baptized ; some resolving never to be baptized , but roundly renouncing all water baptism as nothing concerning them , yet leaving them at liberty to act according to their light , that have a mind to submit to it , and who see it their duty ▪ as if the plain word of christ in this point of baptism were such a nose of wax , as might be moulded , and metamorphosed into any model according to every mans mind and temper , or quite canceld , disanuld , melted into no word of christ at all at every mans haughty humour , that is loath to debase himself so far as to submission to it , as if my lord , and my lady , and sir such a one had more dispensation from christ then every ordinary body , to shew for their non-obedience to that dispised dispensation ; some of them , that are baptized , under prayer and imposition of hands in order to their obtaining the spirit of promise ; some not having faith in the thing , whether that baptism with the spirit peter speaks of act. . . and iohn baptist mat. . . doth belong to them or no , though there promised to all that are , and shall be ( repenting and believing ) baptized in water , even as many as the lord shall call , whereupon the fourth principle of christs doctrine , will not down with them , but when they come to that lesson in christs abc they must skip it , and take forth , and , because it likes them not , turn ore a new leaf to the doctrine of the supper , and church fellowship before they are prefecty past their primmer : to all which confused pro and con congregations , and mongrill kind of ministry , and people , that speak half in the language of canaan , and half of ashdod , i le here say no more but this viz. si eo quo caepistis pede perrexeritis &c. proceeding as you begin , and thriving to the hight of your principle throw the nations , the body of christendom , which was once an uniform , and more lately a triforme * may in time become that , which i judge also it must become for some small season before the end , viz. a monstrous multiform , and at last an omniform beast indeed . but now as to the question , whether these two ( for i must scarce speak of these severally , but very succinctly , and as it were together ) are of right , and according to the mind , and word of christ to continue to the end ? in proof hereof viz. that they are , i shall refer the ranter , and the rest ( if any other besides him do deny it ) but to two scriptures , which prove each of these respectively , and remove some few more of such exceptions as are made against the present practise of both these two , and the other two parts of christs outward worship and service i have already spoke to , and so put a period to this discourse : the first is cor. . . for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup ye shew ( or shew ye , for the word may be read imperatively , as well as indicatively ) the lords death till he come , in which words t is so clearly supposed , that the ordinance of the supper is not according to christs will to cease till the next appearing of christ , that it were to suppose a man to be void of sense , and reason to undertake to make it more evident to him by framing any formall argument from the place . the second is heb. . . not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is , but exhorting one another while it s called to day , and so much the more by how much you see the day approaching , where it is also most clear , and undeniable , that t is the mind of christ , that the saints should keep together in one body in assemblies , and fellowships one with another , and that his sheep should not live in such a stragling state and condition , such single fellowship between god and themselves onely , as is now pleaded for by many , that fall off from following or frequenting any societies at all , and forsake such truly constituted churches as they were once added to , which argues apparently that ( as we say of sheep when they keep not with the flock , but are found squotting up and down here and there by themselves alone and aloof from their fellows ) that some ill disease and deadly distemper is growing upon them , but that they should keep together in flocks every sheep following the footsteps of the flock , which name of flock is that by which christ often denominates his sheep , as luke . . act. . . pet. . . to shew that he expects to find them in flocks and fellowships at his coming . ranterist . till he come is no other then till his coming into men by his spirit , or in such full measures and manifestations of his spirit into mens hearts , that they may be able to live up with him in spirit , so as no more to need such lower helps from outward administrations , such carnal ordinances , such visible representations of christ to the bodily eyes such legal rites and meer bodily exercises as baptism and fellowship together in breaking of bread are . these things were used indeed , and ordained as milk for babes in that meer nonage and infancy of the church , when christ was known as a child as it were but now we are to know christ as a man grown in us , risen up in us , aad to have fellowship with him more immediately and intimately in spirit , and not in such external , and meer fleshly formes ; we are to live higher then on such low , weak , empty , elements , and beggarly rudiments as these , which were used , and imposed for a time to resemble christ to us from without , but must be left when once christ , the substance , that was set forth by those shadows , is come into us . christ is now in the saints the hope of glory , col. . . so heb. . . . leaving the principles of the doctrine of christ let us go on to perfection , not laying again &c. you see we must mind higher matters leaving these , which were as a dark glasse , or shadowy dispensation , through which the church once did see christ , and knew him after the flesh , but now face to face , cor. . . and henceforth know we him so no more , cor. . . when i was a child , saies paul , i spake as a child , and did as a child , and thought as a child , but when i became a man i put away childish things cor. . . every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousnesse , for he is a babe , but strong meat belongeth to them that are full of growth , who have their senses exercised to discern between good and evil : heb. . . that which is perfect is now come , and therefore what is imperfect , and in part only , as ordinances are , must be done away , and as for gathering of congregations , peoples assembling together in the church bodies to preach , pray , break bread to build up one ano - in the faith , search the scripture &c. t was a way of god for mens edification till christ the morning star shined , to which men did well to take heed , as unto a light that shined in a dark place , but now the day dawnes , and the day starre arises in mens hearts , yea the day breaks and the shadowes flie away ; and christ comes as a swift roe , and young heart upon the mountains of bether ; so that now we are to exercise our selves rather unto godlinesse for all bodily exercises as baptism , breaking bread and church order &c. profit little : besides t was said there should be a falling away from all those forms of worship , and the way of ordinances , which was in the primitive times thess. . . and a treading down of the holy city and temple , rev. . . . as to the form it then stood in , both which have fell out also accordingly , so that there hath been a taking of all that dispensation of ordinances in their primitive purity totally out of the way , therefore now we are to meddle no more with them at all ; at least unless we had some extraordinary prophets , as the iews had after the treading down of their temple and and worship , to satisfie and shew us that its the mind of the lord we should set up that old fabrick and form again . baptist. this is the old tune , which you , and your followers have been used to sing in any time this seven year , which yet i could never learn to this day distinctly to sing in after you , and i am perswaded never shall , unlesse i could hear more clearnesse and distinction in the sound then yet i do , to whom , while i sound how sutable your sense is to the sense of scripture , you are barbarians when you speak thus . that christ now comes in the light and power of his spirit , as a swift roe and hart upon these mountains of division , that now are between the pppriests among themselves , and between others and them ; and that abundance of light comes dispelling that fog and smoak of mens traditions , which hath risen out of the bottomlesse pit , and of a long time darkned the sun , and the air , and the hearts of people , all this i grant , but that this coming of his doth put an end , a ne plus ultra to any one of his own traditions or ordinances that were instituted by him , and in his name delivered to the churches in the primitive times , as a part of his will and testament then , this is as hard a lesson for me to learn , as t is for some to learn that t is their duty to be baptized : for assuredly nothing but christs own personal coming shall put a period to any one tittle of his gospel , will , and testament , or of that outward dispensation , which by appointment from himself was then in force ; and therefore to neither baptism , imposition of hands , or churchfellowship in breaking bread , every of which most undoubtedly was a part of the preceptory part of christs gospel in those daies , and of that new testament ratified in his blood , cor. . . which gospel , testament and holy will of his , that he as a great prophet left in charge for all men to observe , when he went away mat. . . mark . . luke . . to the . ( and not any new one delivered since ) is the very same , according to which he will judge all men at his return , any part of which therefore in either promise or precept , suppose but the ordinances of it ( for i am sure it was a testament , and gospel that had ordinances then ) wo be to that man or angel that shall once dare to declare as null : yea let no man flatter himself , and delude others with pretences of an angelical , seraphical life to be led now in an higher kind of way then the saints , and churches did in the primitive ages of the gospel ; for i tell that man that if he were not only appearing to himself to be wrapt up above paul , but really an angel from heaven , and not christ himself * ( who when he comes personally , shall say indeed unto his servants come up higher ) he must be aaathema , preaching , and holding forth other then what the apostles at first delivered to the churches of galatia , who received the gospel with the outward ordinances , and church order thereof , gal. . . . . . . . compared with cor. . . . &c. in which scriptures its evident that the whole intire gospel , which was preached then by paul , who received it together with the ordinances of baptism gal. . . and the supper , not of man , but of the lord , was strictly required to be kept , without hearkning to any other things , then what were then delivered , and received in the churches , though spoke by an angel from heaven , or their very selves , who at first preached them , who , if ever any such thing should have fallen out , as their falling off from that truth , and contradicting themselves , for so doing must have been held accursed ; yea if paul himself should have come some ● of years after to the churches of galatia , and gainsaid what he had said before , saying you received the gospel from me at first with ordinances , but now you may let the ordinances of it alone , it s enough for you to believe onely , and live up to god in the spirit , he had condemned himself to cursing out of his own mouth : if then the apostles , that at first gave out the gospel to the world , were not , on pain of being accursed , to preach any other then what at first they preached , what cursing attends thee ( o wretched ranter ) that deifiest thy self , and takest upon thee not onely to deny , but to defie the gospel of christ in the ordinances of it , and the holy oracles of the living god ? thou tellest us of a coming of christ by his spirit into the hearts of men , after which , there need be no more use of ordinances , that when paul saies men must continue breaking bread till he come , he means till he comes in spirit , but i tell thee , if the right eye of reason were not utterly darkned in thee , thou could● not but understand , that till he come , cor. . speaks of the same time as christ himself speaks of , when he saies to his church in thyatira rev. . . . which were then in a church posture , and under the use of ordinances , that which ye hav● already hold fa●t till i come , and that that time was no other then the end of this world , which he shall put a period to by his personal coming , is cleared by the verse following , he that over cometh , and keepeth my works unto the end , to him will i give power over the nations , where by the end , as he means the same period he pointed at before , in that phrase till i come , so he means the time of christs second coming to judgement , to raign at the end of this world , mentioned mat. . . and in scores of places more , and not the time of his coming by his spirit unto men , for so he was come , and hath come , more or lesse , well nigh as soon as , and even ever since he went away , yea according to his promise he soon sent his spirit to abide with his people , ( in their observation of his commandements , and not otherwise ) as a comforter in the absence of his person , iohn . , . one office also among the rest of which spirit when he should come ( so far was he by his coming from disingaging men from obedience to any one thing , that christ spake while he was on earth ) was because many would be very subject to to forget , and be willingly ignorant of christs lawes , to teach all things , and bring all things to their remembrance , whatsoever christ said unto his disciples , while he was with them , iohn . . yea so he was come to his disciples and the churches , even unto paul himself , and that very church of corinth , whom he praises for keeping some ordinances he delivered to them , and charges to keep that of breaking of bread till christ come , long before he gave this charge , and that in such a high degree , that they had even all the gifts and manifestations of the spirit among them that might be cor. c. . c. . c. . so that they had abundance of prophets , and spiritual men among them , cor. . . that were higher in the spirit , ( or if they were not paul , that was once in the third heaven was ) then the spiritual men of this age , yea they were a people in every thing inriched with all utterance , and all knowledge , and the testimony of christ was so confirmed in them by the coming of the spirit , that they came behind in no gift cor. . . . . . yet were they to wait ( in the dispensation , and use of ordinances wherein they were ) for another coming of the lord jesus in which way pauls hope was that christ would confirm them to the end , that they might be blamelesse ( as else it seemes they could not be ) in the day i. e. the great , and notable day of the second personal coming of the lord jesus ; thou talkest to us ( alluding to heb. . . where the ordinances of the divine service of the law , or old testament are so stiled ) of the ordinances of the gospel , under the name of carnall ordinances , meer fleshly formes , but know oh vain man , that the outward rites , or ceremonies of the law are there called carnall on such an account , as the ordinances of the gospel cannot be so stiled , viz. not at all because they were services performed by the outward man , but because the performance of them served , and sanctified no further then to the purifying of the flesh , v. . viz. to the purging of the practisers thereof , i. e. the jews from such outward , fleshly impurities , as were contracted in the time of the law by such things * and actions as did denominate persons unclean for the time then being , but neither do nor can so denominate them now , that law with all the ordinances of it being abolished . thou callest christs ordinances , ( being not a little deluded by some expressions of mr. saltmarsh , who speaks of them in his books , as matters pertaining only to iohns ministry , whom together with his baptism , and all that was done ad extra in the primitive time , he puts upon the account of the law , as pertaining to it , rather then purely upon the account of the gospel ) but know ( fond man ) that as iohn was a minister of the gospel of christ , and not of the law , and his ministration of preaching , and water baptism the very beginning of the gospel of christ ( as i have shewed above ) mark . . . so if he and his ministration of baptism had related simply to the law , as they did not , yet that of laying on of hands , and church-fellowship in breaking bread , were all given in charge by the new law-giver christ jesus , and that of water baptism too , for ( as if he had foreseen that some should delude themselves and others , so as to say it ended at his death ) even that also was given a new after his death , as his expresse commmand concerning all people to the worlds end . thou speakest of living higher then on such low , weak , empty elements , and beggerly rudiments , but ( to say nothing of thy abominable impudency , and the desperate * despite herein done by thee to the son of god , whom thou treadest under foot , whilst thou despisest his day of small things , and settest light by the least of his commands , and hurlst at thy heels the least jota of his law and testament , or art ashamed of his words ) to let passe that ( i say ) we give thee to understand , that we live not on these ordinances we use , but only on our lord christ in them , whose foolish , weak things , and earthen vessels they are , by which he hands heavenly treasure to believing souls . thou tellest us that the use of outward ordinances was milk for babes in that infancy or nonage of tue church , ( which is no more then what we say our selves , of some ordinances at least viz. baptism and imposition of hands , which with the rest of the word of the beginning of christs doctrine are so stiled , heb. . . . . . . but what of this ? is it not very fit therefore that they should still be used , the church being yet under age ? unlesse thou wilt run necessarily upon the utterance of one of these two absurdities , viz. that babes are not to be fed with milk now , as heretofore , but are more fitly fed with stronger meat , or else ( which is as gross ) that there are no new born babes now in the church ( as before ) at all , but that every beginner in christ is now a strong man , a perfect man in christ , so soon as ever spiritually born . thou tellest us that to use ordinances is to know christ after the flesh , who from thenceforth was to be known so no more : but herein oh spiritual man , thou bewrayest thy own fleshly , carnall , and most crude conception of that place , whereby the words of paul , though we have known christ after the flesh , he means not a knowing of him in the use of ordinances ( for then when he saies henceforth know we no man after the flesh , it must have the same sense too , and would suppose that till that time the saints had known men in the use of ordinances ; besides , that the church at corinth knew christ in the use of ordinances long after this , is eminently evident in the epistle of clement the pastor , and the church at rome , written to the corinthians , upon occasion of their disorder in church affairs , some years after paul wrote this ) but he means that they , from thenceforth that christ died , did take cognizance of no man as ere the better , upon the account of a meer fleshly descent , or birth of any mens bodies , no not of abrahams , as they had before , nor count men in christ , and christians at such a rate as they were counted to god , as his , under the law , but onely as new born , spiritually born from above , as new creatures , as believing according to iohn . . . and gal. . . . if christs by faith , then abrahams seed and heirs &c. thou tellest us that ordinances are as it were a dark glasse , through which we are to behold christ , till we come to see him face to face , a certain shadowy dispensation , till the substance it self comes ; childish things that must be put away , when once we become men , things imperfect , and in part onely , which when that which is perfect is come must vanish , and be done away and such like : and all this , as t is nor more , nor lesse then we say our selves , so t is even as much as we need desire thee to say as to the evincing of what we contend for : for sith we yet see not face to face ( pet. . . in whom though now ye see him not , yet believing ye rejoice with joy unspeakable &c. when he shall appear , we shall be like him , for we shall see him as he is , iohn . . i. e. then , and not before ) and since that which is perfect , i. e. the substance is not yet come ( for as we that remain , and shall be alive at the coming of christ , shall not prevent , or , as to perfection , be before hand with them that are asleep in iesus , thess. . , , . so they i. e. that are long since dead both in and for the lord , without us shall not be made perfect , heb. . . ) sith we are not all yet come to be men at age ( to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ ) therefore ( ad hominem ) till then we must look through the glasse , till then the shadow , and that which is in part , and imperfect , ( as being indeed most suitable to an imperfect state ) must stand , till then the outward work of the ministry in point of offices , and ordinance , for the perfecting of ●he saints , for the edifying of the body , must remain , eph. . . , . thou tellest us ( mistaking the sense of paul phil , . . . heb. . . . ) that higher things , perfection are now to be minded , and prest after , and these to be forgotten ; that those are principles of ch●ists doctrine , which were once eyed and laid as a foundation , but must be left and not laid now any more : but ( contrary to what david saies of himself ps. . . ) thine eyes are so lofty , thy heart so haughtily exercised in minding the things thou callest high , some of which are too high , and others too low , and base for any christian to be busied in , that thou mindest not the words of paul to all saints rom. . . where he saith , not minding high things ( for so the greek words truly translated are ) but together with high things , minding low things : t is confest that in some sense we are to forget , or not to mind what is behind , but to mind , to presse after , to reach forth to things that are before , to leave the principles , the foundation of christs doctrine , & go on to perfection , but not in thy sense ( o ranter ) who hereby takest upon thee to buryall manner of observation of these things ( even by any ) under utter oblivion , to prohibit all present practise of principles by so much as babes , to rase the foundation so as to declare it not fit to be laid at first now , as of old it was , no not by very biginners in the school of christ : but in the spirits sense , who in those places , means no other then thus viz. not that the babes in christ must not use milke in these times , as well as in the primitive , not that the beginner in christs school is not now as well as then to learn his letters , and to begin first in his abc , not that those , that will begin to build themselves an holy temple in the lord , an habitation of god through the spirit , must not now lay any foundation at all , but that having laid the foundation they should not think that their building is at an end , but build up higher , grow up higher in christ thereupon , that they should lay the foundation so sure at first that they should not have need in respect of their non proficiency or relapses into sin , to be laying these i. e. faith of remission , repentance &c. ore and ore again , but to proceed to perfection : that babes should not remain alwaies babes , feeding on nothing but milk , but growing in grace , and in the knowledge of christ , and in ability to bear stronger meats , higher doctrines : that the young scholar should not remain alwayes a novice , an abc darian , no further learnt then in his horn book , but according to the time he hath had , learn to read perfectly that he may be able to teach others , rather then need to be taught his letters again : this is the spirits sense , for otherwise it s ever necessary that babes have milk , and absurd that a scholar should be bid to forget his letters , and how to spell , that builders should leave laying any foundation , when they begin : nay veri●y the most studied scholar must first learn , and then remember his letters , or else he cannot possibly read : babes must be fed with milk at first , or else they will not thrive to be perfect men : builders must lay a foundation , and have an eye to ▪ it too all along in their building upward , even till they come to the very top , observing how all the whole fabrick that they work after , doth square and keep touch with that , or else they may chance to make such a crooked fabrick , as will fall to the ground at last : yea perveniri ad summum nisi ex principiis non potest . thou tellest us ( as concerning the outward ordinances of the gospel ) that bodily exercises profit little , but art wretchedly ignorant of it * that by bodily exercises which profit little , paul means not at all as thou dost , the ordinances of christ , or any ou●ward parts of his worship , and will revealed in his word , for that is , though not the greatest , yet a great part of godlinesse it self , which according to the true signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a right serving of god according to his own will in his word of truth , where he requires us to serve , worship , and glorifie him in our bodie , as well as in our spirit cor. . . . but such bodily exercises , and old wives fables , as abstinences from meats , lent'n , and good friday fasts , and such ordinances , as touch not , tast not &c. which men subject themselves to after the commandements , and doctrines of men , of popish priests , whose religion stands mostly in such matters tim. . . . . . col. . . . . thou tellest us ( as one of the main grounds , whereupon there must now be no more walking in ordinances , and that way of outward service that was at first ) that it was foretold thess. . that there should come a falling away from it , and a treading down of all that outward form , which then was : which ( to say nothing how probable it is that that prophecy thess. . . and several more , do point more at that falling away that thou ( oh false prophet ) shalt cause in the very last dayes , then at that which by the proud pppriesthood hath been made before thee ) i declare to be such an absurd and senslesse consequence , as is more worthy of a silent sleighting , then a solid answer ; for if that be of force to prove a disannulling of that administration , then it s of force much more against the acting of faith it self , for as it s not said there from what the falling away shou●d be , so it s expressely said elsewhere there should be a departure from the faith tim. . . . so that if the foretelling that there should be a falling away from the truth of ordinances , prove that therefore there must be no practising of them now at all , then there being a prophecy of a falling away from the right belief of the gospel , will evince that there ought now to be no right believing , and so belike we do as ill in believing the gospel now , as in practising the ordinances of it : but this will not not hold , and therefore certainly not the other . more over ( that thou maiest see how contrary thou art to the apostles , not in thy actings only , but in thy arguings also ) consider that whereas thou admonishest men thereupon to be carelesse as concerning ordinances , they even from their own predictions of a falling away from the purity of the primitive way , stir the saints up to so much the more dilligent and strict attendance to it , iude ver . . . from the very consideration of a future falling away exhorts the saints , not therefore to let go , but earnestly to contend for that faith , which was once delivered to the saints ; and i appeal to the understanding of any one , that hath not shut up his eyes from seeing and searching afte● the mind of god in the scripture , whether paul doth not charge timothy tim. . . . . . tim. . . ( to whom he had told it before in tim. . . that there should be a departure from the faith ) even therefore ( as he would answer it before god ) to observe those things concerning outward discipline , and church order , offices , and ordinance in point of laying on of hands , and other things , of that kind as well as other , that he in the name of the lord had commanded him , and to keep them without spot and unrebukeable even to the appearing of jesus christ , and not onely to continue himself in the doctrine , and things that he had learnt from paul , among which many were instructions for the right ordering of churches tim. . . but also to take special order for the continuation thereof downwards to succeeding generations without the least hint of any term or period of time , wherein they of right should cease : the things which thou hast heard of me among many witnesses , the same commit thou to faithful men , that shall be able ( i. e. after thy decease ) to teach others also , tim. . . and not onely so , but whether he doth not in that very place thou alledgest viz. thess. . . even therefore enjoin the saints to hold fast the traditions or ordinances ( for so the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used here , is truely enough re●dred cor. . . ) because he had told them above that there should come one , that should delude many with lyes ? whereas if paul had argued as thou o reason●esse doest , he must have said thus viz. there shall come a falling away from the purity of ordinances , by a wicked one that shall tread them down , therefore be not too stiff in standing for them , but let go the ordinances which have been taught you whether by word or epistle : peter also foreseeing , and accordingly foreshewing , that there should come scoffers in the last daies walking after their own lusts , not christs commands , wills the saints that should be in those last times , as malachi did the jewes , after a long deformation , to remember the law of moses with the statutes and judgements mal. . in which we now live , to look back to and be mindful of the words that were spoken before , by the holy prophets , and the commandments of the apostles of the lord and saviour , pet. . . as iude also does in the self same words , and upon the self same account iude . and this i find to be the course of the apostles all along , upon foresight of the dark and declining time , to refer the saints of the last times to their primitive orders , and by arguments drawn from the stedfastnesse of the word of the old testament , in every tittle , to shew much more a stedfastnesse in the new , and a liablenes to punishment for every transgression , and disobedience to this , as there was for that , heb. . - . . every jot of which was so stedfast , that even tith of mint , annis and cummin , which the pharisees did ill indeed in so doting upon , as to neglect the weightier matters of judgement , mercy &c. was neverthelesse not to be neglected matth. . . on pain of being accounted robbers of god mal. . . and howbeit the greater , and higher things of the gospel , as faith , holinesse of life &c. are not to be forgotten , while we attend to lesser and lower , yet how the law of christ was so stedfast as that of moses , if it ly in the power of man or angel to disannul the least particle of it , till christ himself , who is the only abolisher of old dispensations , and establisher of new , do , by his own next personal comming , put an end to this , as he did by his first comming unto that , i am not able to imagine . thou tellest us , suppose the saints and churches ought to have held fast their administration of ordinances to this day , yet what of that ? the churches have lost , and let go that first outward form of service , and iezebe● 〈◊〉 ●hore hath got into the temple , and filled all with idolatry , and trod all the true way under foot , and instead thereof set up her own ordinances , and traditions , the clergy hath corrupted and depra●ved all that first face of outward worsh●p , therefore it s now no more to be meddled with for ever , there must be no more raising the holy city in that form and way , wherein it stood before , no more churches , nor ordinances : but did every any rational spirit argue thus , viz. because the true appointed way of gods worship was lost , when it should have been , therefore it must not be found , recover'd , nor returned to again when it may be ? surely the same rule , reason , warrant and command by which the church was bound to have stood in the way of truth without falling away , by the same is she now bound to rise from whence she is fallen , or else i know not what christ means when he saies to the church at ephesus rev. . , . remember from whence thou art fallen , and repent and do thy first works &c. secondly , by the same reason and ground that the jewes returned from babylon to ierusalem , and built the holy city and temple that was the type , when by the enemy typical of our gospel babylonians , the priesthood and his people , that have led the church captive from her own border for a time times and a half even years it was trodden underfoot , and began again to practise the word , worship and ordinances of the old testament , so long abolished , agreeably to gods will , by the same i say , may the gospel church , having now both light and liberty so to do , return from under the power , and tyranny of mystery babylon , and betake her self to her own border from whence she was driven , to her own city ▪ temple , form of worship , old church order , ordinances , and service , which were all by violence trod down , and caused to cease for a time , times and an half , for . moneths or a . years , as that which by the might of men suppressing it , hath lest not a jot of its right , as that which is required of us now , as the other was of them , till christ by his first comming put an end to that administration , as he shall by his second unto this . thou tellest us no , there is not the same reason , because , first it was foretold that they should return again after a set period of time , and how long ierusalem should be trodden under foot , even for seventy years , and after that be built , and her old form of worship restored . secondly , they had extraordinary prophets haggai and zachary to attend them , and dictate to them the mind of god in those things they did from god. but i tell thee ( and thou wouldest see it thy self but that thou art minded to be blind ) first , those prophets spake nothing as by command from god to them , then what they had a written word , and testament for out of moses and the other prophets , whom if they had in the least contradicted , they must have been rejected , as extraordinary as they were ; neither were they inciters of them to any new thing , nor yet to any thing save what they stood bound to do before , and had done still , had those prophets never came neer them , viz. to build the house of the lord , and set up their old worship according to the testament of moses , those prophets were sent because of their sluggishnesse , and backwardnesse to act in it , their preposterous ca●e first to build , and ce●l their own houses , and let the temple ly wast the while , and to quicken them to that duty of building gods ; for duty all the world may see it was , or else how could the neglect therof have bin punishable , and punished , as it was , with drought , and blasting of all their endeavors to be rich , before those prophets spake to them ? hag. . , , , , , , , those prophets came but upon occasion of their frustrating gods expectation , who looked that they should have begun to build the temple of themselves , but because he took them tardy in that work , was put to it further then they had thank for , even to send men of extraordinary spirits to stir them up , as he may do ( if yet he do not ) and that not without need , to us in these daies , considering our untowardnesse and aversnesse to repair the breaches , to build the old wasts , and the church desolations of many generations , and our subjection to sleight the clear commands of his first apostles : it had been more thnnkeworthy , and more accep●able to god if the jews had acted by the law of moses , and according to the written rule of the other prophets , then it was to forbear , and to say that time was not a time , wherein to build the lords house , and so it will be thank-worthy in us , seeing ( as they had moses and the prophets , so ) we have christ , and the apostles , to hear them , and to act still according to their old commandements ; but to sit down , under a written testament , in meer speculation and contemplation , suspending all execution of christs antient known will , unlesse there be some strange , and unpromised manifestation of a new , or of that old a new , by some extraordinary messengers , or by some sent unto us from the dead , is that which god will con christian men no more thanks for i think at the last , then he did the redeemed jews , upon whom the like pretence was charged , and punished by him as iniquity hag. . . again , are there not promises , and prophecies of the like things to us in the new testament , as there were , in the like case of treading down their worship , to them under the old , and as , if not more clear , then they had of a restitution ? was it not as distinctly foretold , for how long our gospel babilonish captivity , and treading down of the holy city , temple , and true worship should last , viz. for . months , or a years , as theirs was for years ? after which , it s most evident therefore it must rise again , or else the spirit could not have determined the time of the treading down by a certain term of moneths , but would surely have said thus , the holy city shall they tread down for ever , or to the end of all time : for if the old jerusalem , the jewes , their temple and worship , even the self same that was troden down ( for a resurrection , or restoration is of the self same thing still ( and not another ) that was troden down or decayed ) had never been in the mind of god to have been raised again , and restored , the time of its laying wast could not properly be prefixed by such a period , nor be stiled a years devastation : also was is not foretold to us , that the little book of the new testament , that was to be shut up by that smoak of traditions , and fog of errors , that should arise out of the bottomlesse pit , by means of the star , or bishop of rome , that opened the pit , should be opened again , and prophecyings be out of it , before the world ? rev. . . . . . . . , yea is not ▪ the gospel in that primitive purity , and plaines from the simplicity of which all people have been bewitched by the whores sorceries , begun again accordingly to be preached , though as yet by too few practised ; is not that little book now open in the hand of the angel christ jesus ? and are there not prophets that , having eaten up that little book , as ezekiel did his role , and ieremy did the words of god when he found them ezek . . . . ieremy . . are paind within to speak the word to peoples , nations , tongues , and kings , as they were , though for so doing they are like them also viz. men of strife and contention to the whole earth ? who so far as they incourage us to no more then what there is a written word for , must be heeded by us in these daies , as those prophets were by them ? and is there not now a written testament , a sure word to give heed to , and be a rule to us in our raising of the a●●ient form , and order of churches and ordinances , even the testament of christ himself , who was as faithful to deliver his will punctually to his house , as moses was to a tittle to deliver the old will of god to his ? heb. . . . in which word of his are we not bid ( as they zach. ▪ . . ) to come out of babilon , and be separate ? . cor. . . . . . rev. . . . . and is there not a reed given , and a command to rise and measure the city and temple , and worshippers in order to building again of what was ruined , as the plummet was then in hand of zorobabel ? zach. . we have for ought i see , as plain promises , prophecies , warrands , and grounds , as they had to build , when they came from babilon , if we have eyes to see them , unlesse nothing will serve to the satisfying of us ( as indeed it will not to the satisfying of some ) that our acting in the old way of christ is his mind , and will concerning us now , but miracles to confirm us in the belief of it : by whose leave i must rather call for miracles from them , to confirm it , that their leaving that old administration of ordinances and beginning to act in that new way of no ordinances is of god , for , as for the doctrine we practise , t was at first confirmed by miracles , as gods manner ever is at the remove of any old testament , or will of his , and establishing a new one in its stead , but theirs , though a new one , nor yet committed to writing , was never yet confirmed by miracles at all ; and suppose they had had more extraordinary prophets , then we have , at the restoring of their ruins after the babilonish wastings , yet le ts know what extraordinary prophets they had to build upon , for the re-edifying of their dayly sacrifices and religion , when trod down for a time , times and an half also , by antiochus , that most lively type of christs church-wasting enemies under the gospel ? of whose violent ablation of all , and lawful restoration of all again by the jews , according to the old pattern ( excepting what corruptions , were afterward among them , which yet did not disannul the right of the remaining of any truth may ) be read at large mac. . . mac. . . mac. . which all stood in force , notwithstanding that falling away , even till christ himself , who also confirmed , and practised to a tittle according to moses testament , during his life , at last put an end to it by his death . all thy arguings therefore ( o libertine ) from a falling away to no return , from a treading down of the true way of ordinances to no erecting it again , are but a sort of sorry shifts , whereby thou fencest off that part of christs gospel , which i confesse from some experience in my own crooked , deceitful , yet self-searching heart flesh and blood takes no delight in : for if we consider things under the gosp●l with that relation , and proportion they stand in to things under the law , which were types and shadows of them , then we must conclude there is a certain space , or intertime between the last period of the months , or of the time of treading down of the true gospel worship by might , and christs coming to abolish , and take away their right ( as there was after the babilonish captivity a space of weeks ) in which the saints according to the call , and warning given them to worship god aright , and decline the beasts worship , and come out of babilon , rev. . rev. . are obedient , and continue in the word of christs patience , under all the mallice of the beasts worshippers , and in the observation of the commandements of god , and the faith of jesus , and of all the works that christ left in charge at his departure , to be kept in memoriall of him in his absence viz. baptism , the supper &c. that so , when the lord shall come as a snare , and as a thief on all that are disobedient to his voice , and contentious against any tittle of his truth , they may be found , as noah , and lot ( till whose separation the doom determined could not fall upon the wicked gen , . . ) out of sodom rev. . . in zoar , in the ark i. e. christ , and his true wayes , ordinances and worship , which are to them , as those of old to the other , a little sanctuary * ; and being found so doing ▪ as christ required , keeping his commandement● , may be blessed , and have right to the tree of life , and to enter in thorow the gates into the city rev. . . and be entertained with well done good , and faithful servant , thou hast been faithful in a very little , and over a few things , have thou authority over much , over many things , enter thou into the joy of thy lord , mat. . . luk. . . thou tellest us that the day star arises , and the day approaches , and therefore now there need be no such heed given to the edifying one another in assemblies , by the use of ordinances , but whether we shall believe thee ( o perverter ) who saiest we must give attendance to these things so much the lesse , or paul , who saies * so much the more as we see the day approaching , let any judge , but thy besotted self , who speakest all along , by a spirit most contradictory to , and yet canst not be perswaded , but that in all thou speakest answerably to the word . thou tellest us that christ is now in his saints the hope of glory , but thou tellest us no newes in this , for i know not when he was otherwise , while they walkt not after the flesh , but after the spirit , in obedience to his voice , in holy conformity to his will , and word , and in fellowship one with another , in the use of all his holy ordinances , but as for thy self ( o spiritualist ▪ that separatest thy self sensual , not having the spirit , though pretending to have it in a higher degree , then any that live in bondage unto ordinances , i know not how to believe he is so much in thee as the hope of glory , for every one that hath this hope in him , purifieth himself , as christ is pure iohn . . thou tellest of seeing face to face , of present perfection , and manhood , and that that which is perfect is come , and that thou livest already with god , in god , in full and actual enjoyment of heaven and all heavenly happinesse , god dwelling already in thee , and thou in him , in the very substance , which was once shadowed out by the childish things called ordinances , in the secret chambers of the most high , in the heights of god , in the very bosom and inmost imbraces of the father , in a high degree of godlinesse , spirit , and glory ; but ( to let passe how thou contradictest , confutest , and givest thy self the lie , when thou expressest all this sometimes by no higher a term then christ in thee the hope of glory , for hope that is seen is not hope , for what a man seeth why doth he yet hope for ? but if we hope for that we see not , then do we ( not say we have it , but ) with patience wait for it , as not yet actually enjoyd rom. . . . ) we know well enough ( forthy own practise , and sometimes thy own speech bewrayeth thee ) what thy spiritualnesse , perfection , and godlinesse is , thy spiritualnesse is to fulfil the will of the flesh with out scruple , to feed , and feast it without fear , to swaggar and swear , & ●evil & roar , and rant and whore , and in all this to have no more con●cience of sin then a very bruit : thy perfection is a meer defection from the truth , thy fulnesse of age to discern between good and evil is a faculty to discern , that there 's neither good nor evil , thy godlinesse to be ( as paul paints thee out tim. . , . &c. ) a lover of thy self , coveteous , proud , a boaster , a blasphemer , disobedient to governours &c. incontinent , fierce , a despiser of those that are good , treacherous , heady , high-minded , a lover of pleasures more then god , and to have a form , or pretence of godlynesse , whereby with the more advantage to creep into houses , and lead captive to thy lust silly women laden with lust , but to resist the truth , and deny the power thereof , and instead of denying all ungodlinesse in such a sense as the grace of god teaches men to do , i. e. to have nothing to do with it , by a principle of grace turned into wantoness , to deny that there 's any ungodlinesse at all . neverthelesse know this that the lord commeth with of his saints to convince all that are ungodly among them , of all their ungodly deeds , which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him , iude . . and though thou , being willingly ignorant of any such personall comming of christ ( oh ranter ) and ungodly scoffer of these last times , that walkest after thy own lusts in sensual , lascivious , and polluted wayes , since thy forgetting the words of the apostles of our lord , and thy unlawful separation from the true churches , iude . . . since their lawful separation from the false cor. . . . . . . saiest where is the promise of his coming ? and because all things continue as they were pet. . . ▪ . pleasest thy self in believing he will never so come ; yet he will so come in like manner i. e. visibly , personally , bodily ( but far more gloriously ) as he went away act. . . and be revealed from heaven in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god ( them specially that know no other god but themselves , and their belly phil. . ) and on them that obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ ; thess. . . . . who shall be punisht with everlasting destruction : yea while thou dreamest ( oh filthy dreamer ) despising government ( even ecclesiastical and civil ) defiling the flesh , having eyes full of adultery that cannot cease from sin , ( and yet cannot commi● sin , because with thee there is now no sin ) promising men liberty whilst thou thy self art a servant of corruption , and a slave in chains to satan , acting and ranting in every particular , even to the life ( i should say rather to the death , for t is to thy own ) according as thou art punctually painted out , and prophesied of all along by peter peter . c. . and iude in both their epistles , who speak both the same things , which either speaketh , and no other then the self same , which thou dost ; yet thy judgement now of along time lingreth not , and thy damnation slumbreth not , pet. . . for thy lord ( o evil servant ) that art not found so doing ( as some few will be ) as he left in charge when he went away , but saiest in thy heart , my lord delayes his coming , and thereupon beginnest to smite thy fellow servants , that keep close to the masters will , that they may be without spot as his appearing , and to eat and drink with the drunken , thy lord i say will come , to thy cost , in a day when thou lookest not for him , in an hour that thou art not aware of , and cut thee a sunder , and appoint thee a portion with the hypocrites : there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth mat. . . , , , , . yea , o thou unprofitable servant , thou shalt be cast into utter darknesse , mat. . . yea , thou fearless feaster , and feeder of thy self against the day of slaughter iam. . , ▪ . thou fruitlesse , twice dead , bruitish creature , the very mist and blackness of darknesse is , against that time of christs comming reserved for thee for ever pet . . iude . anti-sacerdotism . sacerdotale delirium dilineatum , the dotage of the priests discovered , or editio nova auctior , et emendatior . a new edition , with no small addition in way of emendation , amplification , and truer application of the third part of that trebble treatise , which is extant about the ashford disputation , entitled . a pathetical exhortation to the pastors to oppose the growth of anabaptism , or a short discourse concerning the means of opposing hereticks in disputation and preaching . in which new edition , as christs true clergy , alias , the churches that are commonly , but not properly , called anabaptists , are cleared not to be such , so ( exceptis excipiendis ) the pope and his ccclergy are cleared to be such themselves , ( viz. self-loving and ambitious , vain-gloryous and covetous , illiterate and sottish , impure and carnal , cruel and bloody , lying and blasphemous , prophane and sacrilegious , heretical and schismatical ) as dr. featly in his remarkeables , and that fraternity , by whom he , though dead , yet speaketh , in their patheticals have proclaimed the said anabaptists to be . mal. . , . , , . o ye priests this commandment is for you , &c. and now o ye disputers and scribes of the ashford disputation , i might say not a little , and will say something ( how much i know not ) in discovery of your sacerdotall doings ( not to say dotings ) in the third piece of your pedorantical paper , wherin the only truely baptism , church and ministers of it are both declaimed against under the hatefull names of heresie , schism , hereticks , such as from no other principles then self conceit , ambition , vain-glory and covetuousnesse design the propagation of errors , by certain hypocritical pretences , obstinate , impudent , and audacious deportments , seducers , whose society is to be shuned &c. * for thus , and much worse , to the rendring of us odious among your gentry and vulgar , and the hardning of their hearts against the truth , are we , whom you stile anabaptists , bespattered by you an●●baptists in that triobulary treatise , intituled p. . a short discourse concerning the means of opposing hereticks both in disputation and preaching , alias in your title page , whereby it is evident both what , and whom you mean by the words heresie , heriticks viz. us and the way we walk in ) a pathetical exhortation to the pastors to oppose the growth of anabaptism , the drift of it whether it be more to decline , or desire any more disputation with them , one can hardly discover , so doubtful is the sense of the scribes that scraped it , sometimes as it were decrying disputation as dangerous , and that from which t is scarce possible to expect any good , and superscribing it self thus , viz. why hereticks are not to be disputed withall : sometimes as it were disputing for disputation again , as if it meant to move the ministers , ●hough worsted , by no meanes to give out , and to make it good that much good may be expected from it , like caesar at rubicon with one foot out , saying yet i may go on , the other in , saying yet i may go back , bespeaking its patrons to be in a twitter , in a temper between hawk and buzzard , afraid to dispute too downrightly for disputation least that should ingage them another time , ashamed too directly to dispute down disputation , least it be thought they have no mind to it any more . but , to come to the thing it self , i confesse you have spoken bonum , but not bene , rectum , but not rect● ; it is a moddle of ( for the most part ) right , good , true , and honest matter , onely made use of either very simply or very subtly , to a bad end , viz. the provoking of the priesthood ( no need to bid mad folks ●un ) to preach up a false , and oppose the practise of the true baptism . secondly , most miserably misapplied ( if conscientiously and not cunningly it is the better ) to an improper subject and perverted the wrong way viz. to the fastning of the name hereticks and schismaticks , for non-conformity to the clergy , upon those true churches of christ , for non-conformity to whom in opinion and practise ( if miscariage about baptism may properly be so stiled ) the clergy are in very deed the trust hereticks and schismaticks in the world . i shall therefore in a serious survey and examine of what heresie and schism is , discover plainly , first that the people whom you call anabaptists , upon account of meer dissent and separation from you in the point of baptism , are no hereticks nor schismaticks ; but the truest visible church that christ hath upon the earth . secondly , that you the pppriesthood of the nations , who dissent from them in that point , are , as to that point at least , the veriest hereticks and schismaticks your selves . thirdly , after some pathetical expostulation with your selves , addresse my self , by way of peraphrase upon your own pathetical and paraenetical passages , pathetically to exhort the true pastors , and paraenetically to perswade all people ( as you do yours to beware of us ) to beware of you , the spirituallity , by whom the way of truth is dispited , who though you disguise your selves under the name of gods clergy or heritage for a while , yet will appear to be but cruel crushers of his true clergy in the end . first , then let us see what heresie and schism is , and then who is a schismatical heretick in the doctrine of baptism , heresie as to the gospel is held ( and that truly by all manner of men i think ) the holding or maintaining any erroneous opinion in the faith and doctrine of the gospel , contrary to that doctrine delivered by christ and his apostles in the primitive times , obstinately and pertinacously against all meanes that can be used towards conviction of the truth , schism is division , or making of a rent fraction or faction in , or separation from the true church , and from walking with them in the truth , by the holders or maintainers of such false doctrine or opinion ; and consequently schismatical hereticks , who ere they be , are such as are bewitched from the simplicity of the truth as it is in jesus , and from the doctrine that was once received by the church from him and his immediate apostles , so as both to believe and practise contrarily thereunto , against all manifestations of the truth , whereby to reduce and reclaim them , and do also rend from and make a head against the true church , and true head thereof christ jesus , separating themselves so as to have no fellowship or communion i. e. nor union of action , nor unity of affection with them that walk in truth . * now whether it be you o pppriests , who rantize infants or we , who baptize believers , that are thus gone off and divided from the primitive faith and practise , from the true head of that church , from the true foundation i. e. the doctrine of the apostles eph. . . heb. . . . and from fellowship with , and conformity to the true church in baptism and otherwise , is evident to him that is not blind or blear-eyed ; for verily the water baptism which we dispense is abundantly shewed above to be that one baptism eph. . which was used in the primitive times , then which there is no other water baptism , enjoined or exemplified in the word as christs ordinance to his disciples viz. the burying of new born babes i. e believers in water , and bringing them up again in token of christs death , burial and resurrection , and of their dying to sin , and rising to newnesse of life , this i say is that one onely baptism the churches then practised , and thus , and no otherwise do we at this day , for which the word is our warrant ; yea it is that faith which was once delivered unto the saints , that we now contend for , and the words which were spoken before by the apostles of the lord , as we are specially injoined to do in these latter daies by both peter and iude , who foretold how they would be sleighted , as we see they now are , by the two spiritualties viz. the rantizer and the ranter , the one hereticizing in the excesse by adding a new thing , the other in the defect by owning nothing , both schismatizing accordingly from the way of truth ; and howbeit after that way which you call heresie , schism , separation from the church , and such like , so worship we god yet , as sure as the coats upon your back , you shall first or last , to your weal or wo , find that , as to the point of baptism , churchfellowship and the supper also , it is no other then the way of truth we walk in : yea so far are we from erring , and schismatizing from the church , that we of all men do stand for a full reformation in faith , practise , doctrine , discipline , worship , manners , government and baptism according to the word of god , and the example of the best reformed churches i. e. those mentioned in the word according to which we are all sworn to endeavour to reform , as we will not be justly charged with perjury , perfidiousnesse , and prevarication , the guilt of all which how little the orthodox , protesting , covenanting clergy are clear of in the sight of god and man , is good for them to consider : yea conformity in all things to the primitive practise is that we plead for , presse after , and persue , and howbeit ( to the shame of his ignorance be it spoken ) orthodox mr. baxter is pleased , among other sectaries , to charge the anabaptists ( so he calls us that baptize aright ) as the authors , and approvers of the horrible wickednesse of these times , and speaks of us as dispappointing , and destroying their hopes in point of reformation , to the grief of his heart , yet with grief of heart that the way of truth should be evil spoken of by him , by reason of such as do wickedly indeed , yet those lascivious waves , he laies to our score , are lesse approvvd on in our churches , then in the purest parish church in all christ'ndom , kederminster not excepted ; yea i tell him ( and god i hope will one day seal it home upon his heart to the grief of it another way ) that the power and purity of christs ordinances are a fold more strictly stickled for , according to the covenant , by us , then by all those orthodox ones he talks of , who ( the more shame for them ) do so zealously , and constantly oppose us : we therefore cannot rationally be denominated hereticks and schismaticks in separating from , and practising contrary to you in the point of baptism , so long as we keep close to the primitive truth , gladly both preaching and receiving the word as t is preacht by peter act. . saying repent and be baptized * every one of you , repenting , and being baptized accordingly , and after that continuing in the rest of the apostles doctrine and fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers : and though we draw never so many disciples from you after us , yet the man is out of his christian wits , that deputes and declares this to be heresie and schism , sith so far are we herein from rending from , and refusing to be reduced to the church , that we indeed earnestly endeavour to reduce them to the true church , to the true head christ , the true constitution , the true baptism and gospel order , from which they are rent , and run astray , wondring after a false church , a false head viz. a lording priesthood , and parochial posture , both which derive all their being from dio●rephes , i. e. his prating preheminence the pope : but now as for your selves , the pppriesthood of the nations , who mostly deny not , but that the primitive baptism was of believers , and dispenst in rivers , or places of much water , which was needlesse if sprinkling was then the way , you have a thing among you indeed , which you call baptism , but t is not that one baptism , that old baptism then urged and used , but another , a new baptism , and yet to say the truth neither another nor a new baptism , but a-no-baptism , rantism , babism , a toy of your own taking up by tradition from your forefathers , but not the first fathers that were the founders of the christian church , for you find it not there , but fetch it further from thence , by such consequence as , besides the remotnesse of it , is too weak and rotten to carry it downwards to these times ; you are they that dissent , and rend from the truth in this point of baptism , and draw all the world to sectarize , and erre after you by a law , by your subpaena directories ; yea you pretendedly reforming presbyters , who peculiarize the term o● orthodox to your selves , even you , as to the right administration of the outward right of baptism , are not a whit lesse erratical , heretical , schismatical and heterodox then the pope , for as he hath another baptism then that , which was in the primitive times viz. infant ●antism , which , by the mouth of his cardinal bellarmine , he confesses to be but a tradition of the church , so you have no other then the same , yea you own that for good baptism , which is done at rome , or else how to prove the popish bishops to be baptized themselves , that baptized , and ordained you presbyters , you plainly know not ; yet you falsely father it upon christ , and fain it to be an ordinance of his , then which nothing is more clear then that it is not . and as in point of baptism you all erre , not knowing , or at least not doing according to the scriptures , all means used to reduce you thereunto notwithstanding , so in th supper , and many more matters pertaining to that visible church order that was in those times , as namely impropriating to your selves sole power of speaking in your churches , i. e. steeple-houses , so that your members may well say men mutire nefas ? it is not for them to open their mouthes there , unlesse to answer when you catechise them ; whereas then all the church were to covet to prophesie i. e. to speak mutually to the exhortation , edification ▪ and comfort each of other , and being gifted , might all ( women onely excepted ) prophesie one by one , and every one minister as of the ability god gave them , great or small , that god in all things might be glorified , and all judge of the doctrine delivered ; but with you what doctrine ere ye deliver , men may try it if they will , but must take it whether they will or no , the mouths of all must be muzzled up , save such as ( in your sense ) are ministers i. e. have some parchment preachment orders to shew from such , as can shew their orders from his highnesse the head of the church , not christ but his holinesse the pope , who had his from the beast rev. . who had his from the devill rev. . yea verily , as to the external face , and fashion of the first churches , you have altogether altered it , from what it was , and brought in a businesse of your own heads , being all gone aside , and altogether become vain in your wayes , as to your administrations of gospel ordinances , so that there is none of you that are in the right way of the primitive churches , no not one : yea ye are separated from and make a head against the true head of the church christ jesus , and take upon you to head the church your selves , for this is not the fault of p the pope onely ; but of pp i. e. you prelates and presbyters too , who howbeit you seem to throw off that supremacy , or headship which the pope had once , and laies claim to still in the protestant part of christ'ndom , yet in your several christ'ndoms you have been ( not nominally but ) really as supreme in church work as he , and that not over the people onely , but civil powers also , to whom in all cases ecclesiasticall and civill , though you say you grant the headship or supreame government under christ , yet how doth that appear , sith they only corrective , but you directive , till of late , have done all ? for the bishops , and sinods , and general convocations of the clergy , and assemblies of the kirk , seeundum te , must determine what is to be done by magistrates in church affairs , and they do it accordingly ; the priests must give out the word and sentence what is the worship , the way , the faith , the truth , what heresy , and schism , who are hereticks and schismaticks , and then the princes in all their dominions establish the one , and root out the other , as rogues , at their appointment , in which cases , saving the bare name of supremacy over the churches , which hath been allowed , it is difficult to me to discern , whether christian kings have not been , as of old under the popedome , so more lately under the very protestant clergy , as the bosholder under the constable , at his discretion & direction to whip the beggars : and though you may say , and so saies the pope too , that you claim to head and order the church directive no otherwise then under christ , yet in very deed as he , for all his saying , so you have presumed to set your selves above christ , the only head , counseller , lord and lawgiver to his church , for as the pope hath done no more then broken his lawes , changed his ordinances , trampled his truth , made void his commandments , and subpaena damni temporalis , et eternae damnationis , imposed mens traditions arrogantly in their stead , so you in your severall lines have done no lesse ; yea you also make people to erie with all your might , and whatever tender consciences find christ piping to the contrary in his word , yet if they dance not after you pipe , when it sounds to the tune of tiches , and put not into your moneths , you cry peace , but bite with your teeth , and prepare war against them : mich. . . possessing the world with prejudice against them as a sort of seditious sectaries , damnnble hereticks , and schismaticks ; yea ( exceptis excipiendis ) saving some few scatterings here and there of more sober and moderate minded ministers , like so many graines of salt to keep the rest from stinking too much in these states , where you have , or would have raigned , who have not been so hot spur as their fellowes , by the good will of p. the presbiter , as well as of p. the prelate and p the pope , many an honest mans native countrey , for non-conformity to his gangraenaticall domination , should ere this , have been made too hot to hold him : so far therefore as separa - from the true church and her orders may denominate a people heretical schismaticks , and divines themselves place the nature of heresie much in seperation and schism , the denomination seems to be your due , o p p priests , who are departed from the primitive church , and not ours , for departing from you , ye are are those schismatical teachers , that are rent all from the primitive plainesse of the gospel , and present pompousnesse of each others way , and have seduced the whole world into spiritual thraldome , idolatry , and superstition , and inticed them into a carnal liberty of calling all things according as your carnal ends , and interests impose the names of heresie or truth upon them : you are s s she that having got the good liking of the kings and kingdomes of the earth to confide in you , do close the eyes of their judgements , as dr. featley faines we do , with your birdlime of schism from the true church , and head thereof christ jesus , and bewitcht them into an implicit submission to papism , arch-bishopism , oecumaenical synodism , provincial c●assism , and so lead them as you lift into anti-gospelism , antiscripturism &c. making a prey of them , and though featly had the faculty of faining the baptists to be such , yet you are indeed devisers of new religions , and spiritual impostors , falsely pretending to christ as the patron , and authorizer of your new doctrines , of which paedo-baptism is one , which because there is not the least dram of evidence for it in the word of christ , therefore when people begin to question it , you amuse the vulgar with the names of some divine authors or other , not peter , nor paul &c. but st austin , st gregory , s chrysostome &c. at rome his holiness the pope , the holy mother , the catholique church , ghostly fathers &c. and in places where those subterfuges are not regarded , reverend sinods of grave orthodox divines , ministers of christ , suffrages of all the learned divines in the reformed churches , * &c. and this you do to secure your tenets from the hazards of disputes , and exempt your persons , and actions from the rest of examination , as if there were such infallibility herein , that it is no lesse then blaspemy to doubt , or call in question the dictates or directories &c. of such and such : thus bearing your selves up with bombasting termes of fathers , spiritual , ius divinum &c. you gain to the captivating of the reason of men so far , that they resign up themselves , jurare in v v vostram sententiam , and will be as their priests are , and never believe but that they believe the truth , when all this while there is nothing but humane authority ( and humanum est errare ) for most things you do . yea you are indeed the greatest schismaticks , or rentmakers * in the seamlesse coat of christ , that the earth bears ; you are they that have caused divisions , and offences contrary to that doctrine , which was at first received at rome and in all churches , and by good words and fair speeches , viz. decency , order &c. have deceived the hearts of the simple , so as to make more conscience of serving those belly gods the priests , then the lord jesus according to his own will , therefore when you talk so much to us of the church , and your church , crying out ( as the pope does against the bishops for theirs , and the b●shops against you presbyters , for your departure from them ) hereticks , hereticks , that disturb the peace of the church , forsake the church , infringe the unity of the church , yet i say what church , so long as there is no other church constitution among you to this day then that of parishes , into which the pope put all christ'ndome ? what church , so long as the doctrine of christ and his apostles , on which every true church is built † , is cut off , disclaimed , and exploded , and neither the word purely preached , nor the sacraments duly administred , which by calvin * and featley themselves are both made such true notes of the true visible church , that wherever they are there is the true church , and where not there 's no true church , what ever there may be in pretence : yea verily so far are you from due administration of the sacraments ( giving the supper to such as were never at all , much lesse truly , baptized , & many of you presbyterians not administring it at all to your flocks , whom you contend were truely initiated into your church by baptism ) that indeed as you have substituted infant rantism instead of it , so you preach down that due administration of baptism and the supper , which according to the primitive pattern acts . is at this day to be found amongst us , withall the vehemency you can , proclaiming us schismatical hereticks for declining your disorderly administrations , and , according to our covenant , pressing on to that purity of administration of gospell ordinances , which lies now in such plain english before mens eyes , that all your glosses wil beguile them but little longer : there is no danger therefore of being rent from the church of christ , in departing from participation with you in your oppositions of the truth , therefore never glory so much in these vain lying words , the church of god , the church of god , which is indeed the common tone of all you romanists each to other , in your rendings each from other , for there is none of you all three have a true visible church of christ among you , nor yet right any administration of the things you call sacraments , whether we speak of either baptism or the supper . my answer then to the whole pppriesthood of christ'ndom , even ye protestant clergy also , from all whom , as well as from the pope , we who are fictitiously stiled anabaptists , and charged as schismatical hereticks for so doing , and troublers of the unity of the church , are departed , shall be the very same , that you protestant clergy do make in your own defence , when you are charged by your old father caiphas , and his catholicks , as hereticks and schismaticks in your rending from them , and as infringers of the unity of their church , yea in the very words of calvin , to whom you my ashford opponents are pleased to send us , who saith thus of them ( as i do with him of you all ) inst. l. . c. . s. magnifice quidem &c. they do indeed gloriously set out their church unto us , that there should seem to be no other church in the world , and afterward , as though the victory were gotten , they decree that all be schismaticks that dare withdraw themselves from the obedience of that church that they paint out , and that all be hereticks that da●e once mutter against the doctrine thereof . but by what proofs do they confirm they have the true church ? s. . if the true church be the pillar and stay of the truth , it is certain , that there is no church , where lying and falshood have usurped the dominion . s. . there is therefore no cause , why they should any longer go forward to deceive by p●etending a false colour under the name of the church , which we do reverently esteem , as becommeth us ; but when they come to the definition of it , not onely water ( as the common saying is ) cleaveth unto them , but they stick fast in their own mire , because they put a stinking harlot in place of the holy spouse of christ : that this putting in of a changling should not deceive us , beside other admonitions , let us remember this also of augustine , for , speaking of the church , he saith : it is it that is sometime darkned and covered with multitude of offences , as with a cloud : sometime in calmnesse of time appeareth quiet and ●ree : sometime is hidden and troubled with waves of tribulations and temptations . he bringeth forth examples , that oftentimes the strongest pillars either valiantly suffered banishment for the faith , or were hidden in the whole world . s. . in like manner the romanists do vex us , and make afraid the ignorant with the name of the church , whereas they be the deadly enemies of christ. therefore although they pretend the temple , the priesthood , and other such outward shews , this vain glistering , wherewith the eyes of the simple be dazled ought nothing to move us to grant that there is a church , where the word of god doth not appear ; for this is the perpetual mark wherewith god hath marked them to be his . he that is of the truth ( saith he ) heareth my voice . again , i am the good shepheard , and i know my sheep , and am known of them , my sheep hear my voice , and i know them , and they follow me , and a little before he had said , that the sheep follow their shepheard , because they know his voice : but they follow not a stranger , but run away from him because they know not the voice of strangers . why are we therefore wilfully mad in judging the church , whereas christ hath marked it with an undoubtful sign , which wheresoever it is seen cannot deceive , but that it certainly sheweth the church to be there , but where it is not , there remaineth nothing that can give a true signifition of the church , for paul rehearseth that the church was builded , not upon the judgements of men , nor upon priesthoods , but upon the doctrine of the apostles and prophets , but rather jerusalem is to be severally known from babilon , and the church of christ from the conspiracy of satan , by that difference wherewith christ hath made them different one from another . he that is of god ( saith he ) heareth the words of god , ye therefore hear not , because ye are not of god. in summe , forasmuch as the church is the kingdom of christ , and he reigneth not but by his word , can it be now doubtful to any man , but that those be the words of lying , by which christs kingdome is feigned to be without his scepter , that is to say without his holy word ? but now whereas they accuse us of schism and heresie , because we both teach a contrary doctrine to them , and obey not their lawes , and have our assemblies to prayers , to baptism , to the ministration of the supper , and other holy doings , severally from them : it is indeed a very sore accusation , but such as needeth not a long or laborsome defence : they are called hereticks and schismaticks , which making a division , do break in sunder the communion of the church . and this communion is holden together with true bounds , that is to say , the agreement of true doctrine , and brotherly charity , whereupon augustine putteth this difference betwixt hereticks and schismaticks , that hereticks indeed do with false doctrine corrupt the purenesse of faith , but the schismaticks sometime even where there is like faith , do break the bond of fellowship . but this is also to be noted , that this conjoining of charity so hangeih upon the unity of faith , that faith ought to be the beginning thereof , the end , and finally the only rule . let us therefore remember that so oft as the unity of the church is commended unto us , this is required , that while our minds agree in christ , our wills also may be joined together with mutual well willing in christ , therefore paul when he exhorteth us to that well willing , taketh for his foundation that there is one god , one faith and one baptism . yea wheresoever he teacheth us to be of one mind , and of one will , he by and by addeth in christ , or according to christ , meaning , that it is a factions company of the wicked , and not agreement of the faithful which is without the word of the lord. s. . cyprian also following paul deriveth the whole fountain of the agreement of the church , from the onely bishoprick of christ , he afterward addeth the church is but one , which spreadeth abroad more largely into a multitude with increase of fruitfulnesse , like as there be many sun beams , ●ut one light ; and many branches of a tree , but one body grounded upon a fast root , and when many streams do flow from one fountain , although the number seem to be scattered abroad by largeensse of overflowing plenty , yet the unity abideth in the original , take away a beam of the sunne from the body , the unity suffers no division , break a branch from the tree , the broken branch cannot spring , cut off the stream from the spring head , being cut off it drieth up , so also the church being overspread with the light of the lord , is ex●ended over the whole world : yet there is but one light that is spread every where . nothing could be said more fitly to expresse that undividual knitting together , which all the members of christ have one with another ; we see how he continually calleth us back to the very head . whereupon he pronounceth that heresies and schismes do arise hereof , that men do not return to the original of truth , nor do seek that head , nor keep the doctrine of the heavenly master , now let them go and cry that we be hereticks that have departed from their church : sith there hath been no cause of our estranging from them but this one , that they can in no wise abide the pure professing of the truth : but i tell not how they have driven us out with cursings and cruel execrations , which very self-doing doth abundantly enough acquit us , unlesse they will also condemn the apostles for schismaticks , with whom we have all one cause . christ i say did foresay to his apostles , that the time should come when they should be cast out of the synagogues for his name sake . and those synagogues of which he speaketh , were then accounted lawful churches . sith therefore it is evident that we be cast out , and we be ready to shew that the same is done for the names sake of christ ; truly the cause ought first to be inquired of , before that any thing be determined upon us , either one way or other . howbeit , if they will i am content to discharge them of this point . for it is enough for me , that it behoved that we should depart from them that we might come to christ. s. . but we see how each where they cry out , that their assemblies are unholy , to which it is no more lawful to consent then it is to deny god. therefore it is needful to depart from the consent , of those assemblies , which were nothing else but a wicked conspiracy against god. in like manner if any man acknowledge the assemblies at these daies being defiled with idolatry , superstition and wicked doctrine , to be such in whose full communion a christian man ought to continue even to the consent of doctrine , he shall greatly erre . s. . whereas therefore we will not simply grant to the papists the title of the church , we do not therefore deny that there be churches among them : but onely we contend for the true and lawful ordering of the church : which is required in the communion both of the sacraments , which are the signes of profession , and also specially of doctrine . hereby therefore appeareth , that we do not deny but that even under his tyranny remain churches ▪ but such as he hath profaned with ungodlinesse full of sacriledge , such as he hath afflicted with outragious dominations , such as he hath corrupted and in a manner killed with evil and damnable doctrines , as with poisoned drinks : such wherein christ lieth half buried , the gospel overwhelmed , godlinesse banished , the worshiping of god in a manner abolished : such finally wherein all things are so troubled , that therein rather appeareth the face of babilon then of the holy city of god. therefore because these marks are blotted out , which in this discourse we ought principally to have respect unto , i say , that every one of their assemblies , and the whole body wanteth the lawful form of a church . these very words of calvin , which are your defence , and mine too against the pope ( o ye protestant priesthood ) are mine also against you , when you clamour against us as schismaticks , for separating from your nationall churches , and calling as many out with us as we can , viz. because you two pps as well as the popish priesthood , are not syon , as you suppose , but two of those three parts of that great city , mystery babylon the great , the mother of harlotry and heresie , that hath reigned over kings and kingdomes of the earth : you hold not unity with the head , you return not to the fountain of the truth , reform not by the primitive standard , but start aside like a broken bow ; you hear not the voice of our prophet in all things he saies , but make void his lawes ; you walk not in those scorned , mean , base waies , which he hath chosen , but are they rather that count them base , and so we can no more ioin with you then deny christ : & so far are we from being hereticks and schismaticks thereupon , that we rather truly declare you such as stand divided from the root , the sun , the fountain , as well as all three one from another ; yea what need we any further witness that you three hierarchies are all hereticks , and schismaticks , since the whole world hears it aloud out of your own mouthes ? the bishop saith the presbyter , as to his government , is a schismaticall heretick , the presbyter saith the bishop is so , the pope saies they are both so , and they both say he is so , and therefore i say they are all three so , if we may credit what they say among themselves : you stand all divided from christ , and the apostles , and now god hath justly divided you into three parts , and divided you three miserably each against other among your selves , yea and sub-divided you ; i. e. divided his people , and well nigh all other people from you , so that though you labour in the fire of wrath and rage , to bring them back to unity with you , and their old blind conformity to your waies ; yet you weary your selves for very vanitie , for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the lord , as the waters cover the sea : even so o lord divide their tongues more and more , and let great bbbabel come down daily by the division of languages , that the whole earth , which was once of one language , and one speech , even that of babylon , may at last after all , and by all this diversity , learn all that one pure language of the land of canaan : yea come ( my beloved ) hast'n this blessed work , and be like a swift roe , or young hart upon these mountains of bether * . so having discovered what heresie , and schism , and who the hereticks and schismaticks are , i come now to discourse o're again , in a little plainer way , your own discourse concerning them , and the means of opposing them ; which ( as i said above ) is a parcell of pretty right matter , if spoken of the pope , and his pppriesthood , to whom of right and most properly it appertains ; yea quid rides o s s sacerdos ? mutato nomine de te fabula narratur thy own tale is a fit rod for thy own taile , thou hast sharpen'd thine arrows , and bert thy bow , to shoot at a pigeon , and kild a crow : for verily thou art the man to whom all those properties of the heretick , and schismatick propounded by thy self , do much more aptly and exactly agree then to him thou talkest of ; a little translating , a little trimming , a little turning of it towards the true subject , will make every tittle of that tattle of thine to be the truth , which is but a peice of fained falshood as thou tellest it of the baptists : what thou hast reported lacks but to be retorted ( o priesthood ) with a little amplification , and a right application of it to thy self , and then omne tulit punctum , it hits the nail on the head , and tels no●hing but the truth indeed . thus then distinguishing your patheticall piece ( o ye ashford opponents ) which i mean shall be my text , all along by a different carracter from my own peraphrasticall amplification , and genuine application thereof , so that both you and the world may read ( as it were in text letters ) your own abstract from that of mine , when you please ; and signing the titles of the ccclergy , whether true or surreptitious , with three letters in the front , as c. c. c. ppp &c. most commonly , when i speak of ●hem in the lump , to denote the three ppparts into which that great city b b babylon , which they make , stands divided , i proceed as followeth . that heresies must be the apostle hath said , yet it makes no more for a tolleration of them ( in the true church i mean , though others mean in the civil state ) than that of our saviour of offences , saying ( foreseeing no question how by means of the clergies crying out heresie , heresie , schism against the way of truth , being once turned aside to heresie themselves , the world would be offended at his little ones for walking in it ) they must come , but wo to the man by whom they come : the apostle reckons heresies among the works of the flesh . idolatry , witchcraft &c. gal. . . which alone is argument sufficient against the patronage , and invitation of them , unless withal license in the true church should be given to all other carnal sins ; why should the church of god upon earth make much of those against whom the kingdome of heaven shall be shut ? her pale is not so strong to keep them out from breaking in upon her , like wild bores , and wolves to spoil , and wast her , but her good will should not be so great to them , as to wellcome them in to her fellowship , till they repent from their dead works of superstition , bloody tenet of persecution for cause of conscience , worshipping god after mens traditions , blaspheming the name of god , and his tabernacle , and them that dwell in heaven , trampling the holy city , heresie , schism from the primitive truth &c. neverthelesse , howbeit to tolerate and harbour hereticks in communion with them whilest they oppose the true way of christ , would be an error , and an evill too intollerable in a true church of christ , yet i hold that opinion of the c c clergy not onely intollerably heretical in it self , but intollerably hurtful also to themselves that hereticks may not be tolerated in a civil state , for if fines , prisons , banishments , racks , w●ips , tortures , headings , hangings , burnings , and such like punishments with the civil sword were the due of every heretick , and schismatick in the faith , as the c c clergy have for ages and generations born the world in hand that they are , to the causing of all these their national church censures to be inflicted on the saints , when they have once blindly sentence them to be schismaticks to the civil power , if this i say were the due of every heretick or schismatick , and every true heretick and schismatick had his due too , good lord how have the c c clergy condemned themselves out of their own mouthes to devastation , when the civil powers shall find them to be the arch-hereticks in the world , if taking them at their word , they shall do with them , as they say they ought to do in this case concerning others ? but god forbid that with what judgement they judge , they should be judged , and with what measure they meet , it should be measured to them again at our suggestion , if their own cheek-by-jole carriage to the stern-men of the state do not pull it unavoidably upon themselves ; yea verily though as far as those that oppose themselves against the truth of christ , they may well challenge the name of schismaticall hereticks , and though amen might justly be said by the magistrate in this point to the opinion of gangraena , and his gang , and might amen be said to his wise wishes as concerning us , who teach and practise baptism in its primitive fashion , we could expect to be suffered in the common-wealth no more then high-way murderers , yet dare we not desire their ex●irpation out of any of their native rights , in the several states , wherein they are , nor such uncivill suppression of them , meerly for their erroneous tenets , as they have sollicited the higher powers to concerning us ; we have not so learned christ , nor would they if they had heard him , and had been taught by him as the truth is in jesus : for howere it comes to passe that the c c clergy ( whose own the worst would he , if that were true , and execution done accordingly ) are so besotted as to believe that hereticks and schismaticks from the faith , men of false waies , worships , religions , though elsewise never fo peaceable and innocent must not onely be dischurched , but discommunicated also from the patronage of the civil power , and cut off from the priviledges of other subjects , yet neither christ nor any of his apostles , as from him , gave any order for such rigid rejection , indeed the apostle paul wills in his epistle to titus cap. . who was a church officer , that a heretick after a second and third admonition be rejected , i. e. from the church , and gal. . . wishes that they were cut off from the church , that did trouble the church , and rev. . . . the church of thyatira was reproved for suffering that woman iezebel , which calleth her self a prophetesse * , to teach and seduce his servants to fornication , i. e. false worships , &c. but it will no● follow therefore that such may not have license to live civilly in civil states ; for the weapons of the churches warfare , wherewith she is to fight against heresies , and which she is ever to have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience to christ by , are no● carnall cer. . , , . not such as are used by the officers of states , but onely spirituall , as admonition reproof , and in case of obstinacy , putting out from among them , delivering up to satan , and not delivering up to the secular power , as the popish priesthood used to do * , when any of their creatures , specially of their clerico-creatures turned hereticks , i. e. departed from their heresies to the truth , saying pray take him into your power , and be merciful to him , meaning hang or burn him for a heretick . the church i say is neither to use the carnal weapons of the state , nor yet to stirr up the state so to use them on her and truths behalf , as to imprison , fine , hang , burn or banish false worshippers , unbelievers , misbelievers , or hereticks , further then they are withall ( as by meer unbelief they are not ) offenders against the civil state ; i find the lord christ foretelling by himself , and his apostles , that for the most part ( the more is the pitty ) the rulers , kings , governours , and princes of the world would be such enemies against his gospel , that his disciples should be ●ald before them as evill doers for his names sake matth. . . that not many mighty , and noble men would own his truth cor. . . that rich men would oppresse the church , and draw them before their judgement seats , and blaspheme that worthy name , wherby the poor in this world , which commonly are the richest in faith , are called ia. . . that the kings of the very christian nations would throw down their crowns , and give up their power , and strength unto the beast , & commit fornication with the w w whore , and at her instigation make war with the lamb , and at last be overcome by him , rev. . . . and be put down together with all their rule , authority , and power , as very enemies , though once his ordinance , under his feet , cor. . . . i find also ephe. . that he hath set in his church apostles , pastors &c. for the work of the ministery , and affairs of it but i no where find in his will and testament , that christ intended the magistracy , as his ordinance ( though undoubtedly in other cases the supreme ordinance of god to men , whether in the church or out of it , for civil good ) to officiate so immediately in matters of religion , faith church order , &c. as to execute church-discipline , church censure , for meer church disorders , church divisions , church offences , or so as to make all men within their jurisdiction ( and yet , though their churches be no true churches neither , so the ccclergy would have it ) to believe as the church believes , worship as the church worships , and be members of the church , whether they will or no ; if not to pray with them , yet at least to pay to them , or else to be excommunicated out of all they have , and , under the name of hereticks , dischurcht out of the world : for so verily they do ( doctrinally at least ) who teach such false doctrine , that men of false relegions , whether heathens , jewes , turks , or pagans , or men erring most grosly about the true , as papists , or whatever else , though never so submissive in all civil things to the civil powers , yet may not lawfully be licensed to live in civil states , or in any common-wealth under the sun : for by the same reason that iews , turks , heathens , hereticks may not without sin , be tolerated in one nation , but must ( ex officio ) be rooted out of it , upon that meer account of denying and defying christ , which is as high as ever any heretick went , they may not without sin be permitted to be in another , and so either some nations m●st sin in allowing these to live in them , or else , though de facto they cannot by reason of their number , yet de jure they ought , as far as they well can , by kings and princes , among whom few or none are so well acquainted , as they should , with what is heresie , and what truth , to be driven quite out of the world ; and so the poor iewes whose conversion the priests pray for with much zeal and compassion , must in quiet live no where at all , that they may be converted , but must belike be turned altogether into the sea . besides the notion of their being christians adds nothing to mens power as magistrates , so but that if such magistrates as are christians , are church officers , as magistrates , then other magistrates , as heathen magistrates , must be church officers as well as they , and then how well that christian church is likely to be served and governed , whose head church-officers are heathens , a fool may see . yet whether the magistracy be heathens , or christians it matters not to the church , so long as they are the ministers of god and christ to them , and others too for civill good , to punish evil doers , that are injurious against the common , or any mans proper weal , church-member or other , in body , goods , or name , by stealing , lying , murder , defiling , defaming , defrauding &c. whereby any are prejudic'd in point of their outward well being : mean while whether he be the minister of god onely or christ also , and that not onely as god , but god man also it matters not , so long as he is an ordinance to us for civil good : * so that if any matter of division of inheritances , or of wrong and wicked lewdnesse be brought before the magistrates , committed whether by a church-member or any other it is all one , reason wills that the magistrate should hear it , and ( be they heathens or be they christians who stand before him ) determine and destribute according to the equity of his civil law , and as much as mr. baxter looks askew at this assertion p. . as if he thought the magistrate were to do a pagan no right against a christian , without partiality , not favouring a christian in a civil cause against a heathen , a turk , an egyptian , a pagan , so as to take the christians part , further then the equity of his cause in hand may justly call for it , more then the others , though the magistrate himself also be a christian , and a brother to the christian , whose cause depends before him , or a member of the self same congregation with him , not balking to do civil justice against church-members , they deserving punishment , as if the church were exempted from his jurisdiction in civil things , because he is no christian , but a heathen , nor yet denying to do right to church-members , if they be injured by others , for if he do any of this , i am sure he does no justice in his place , whereupon gallio , the depuputy go●ernour of achaia , who was not a little to be commended in one thing was no lesse to blame in another , act. . . in that when the greeks in a rude and barbarous manner took sostenes the chief ruler of the synagogue , and beat him , for letting paul preach in it , before his face , and before the very judgement seat too , yet he cared for none of those things , for those were the things that fell duly and directly under his cognizance , as he was a magistrate , and so the minister of god to men for good , whether they be christs disciples or no , for the redresse of such civil abuses ; neither is christ yet in his own person , luke . . . nay nor yet by any church-officers of his ( qua sic ) unlesse they be civil magistrates also , and then as in that capacity they must do that right that concerns them as such , as meer church-officers to be judge in those outward cases , and as therein the outward man onely is concerned , for then paul , one of the chief apostles , and officers of the church , being then present , might have taken upon him in the behalf of sostenes , and himself , as the pope and the p p priesthood do for the most part in their religions , to have determined for themselves in that civill dissention , but christ as man , and his church , as his church , are yet no judgers , nor dividers over men , but the magistrate by gods , and if i say by christs appointment it hurts us not , is made as onely in such , so the only judge and divider in such civil matters ; but if it be a question , and a brabble about heathenism , turcism , iudaism , christianism , and about religion , worship , and faith and iesus , and words , and names as antinomists arminians , anabaptists , pelagians , socinians , anti-christians , pedobaptists , sectaries , &c. and about his law , and about heresie , and spiritual truth , and schism in the church , and ministry , and such like , about which the eares of the civil powers have been d●nd by the usual addresses of the pppriesthood unto them for help against hereticks and schismaticks , and by their hideous outcries viz. of the prelates against the presbyters , saying , help o king , and the presbyters against the sectaries , help o parliament , all will be overspread with a gangrene of heresie , murder , murder , &c. o ye magistrates restrain dipping in cold water , as you will save the lives of your subjects , and such stuff , and felly as is powred out to the magistrate by the minister against men more true to christ , and magistracy then himself ; i humbly conceive the magistrate may lawfully , and more acceptably to god then otherwise , save himself so much labour , as to let these matters alone : yea he may do well to see , that whatever religion men be of , that are under his civil power in each state , whether iewish , turkish , heathenish , popish , prelatical , presbyterian , or independent , may not be injurious each to other , without satisfaction , in civil matters , and to see that none commit any uncivil actions , that are contrary to that common honesly and righteousnesse among men , which men as magistrates , are set to vindicate * , to see that none live ( be they of this or that religion ) dishonestly without correction , to see that none usurp dominion over each others faith , so as to make all men believe as some do , whether they see ground to believe so yea or no , by the civil sword , to see that , in order to their own eternal good , they find out , and walk in the way of truth themselves as it is in jesus , and when they are once assured that they are in the truth themselves , to let that truth be verbally declared per se , or per alios , as much as they please , but not forced upon others , as their faith , further then the light of preachings and discourses may prevail to fasten it on others consciences ; and to see that even enemies to the gospel , and true church may have no more then the weapons of the churches warfare , which are not carnal , used towards them to make them friends , and as to those , who walk in truth , whoever they are , or shall but be supposed by the successive representatives , princes or powers , to walk in the way of truth , to see that they be countenanc't , but not too much maintenanc't , because christs disciples , nor cookt up to all the honour , and preferment , and places of trust , and advantage , above their fellow subjects , to the ingendring of jealousies , and emulations in others , that may be happily , though not so neer the truth of christ , yet as trusty to the state as themselves ; for that too often choaks the church * but onely that with an indifferent , impartial hand , as men , whether in church or out , being otherwise honest , and able , and of publique spirits , not selfish , nor covetous , nor cruel &c. may seem fit to be intrusted with such , and such places , so they may be chosen , and disposed of thereunto ; in a word to see that such as make prayers , and supplications , and intercessions , and giving of thanks for all men , for kings , and such as are in authority ( living in all godlinesse and honesty ) may as well as others , and others also as well as they ( living soberly and honestly , though not godly in christ jesus , nor worshipping in way of truth , but falsly ) may live a quiet , and peaceable life without persecution as to confiscation , bonds , or death , for doing and denying according to the dictates of their own , though yet blinded , conscience , and that men of all religions , may live without molestation one from another , any more then by meer manifestations of their light one to another at seasonable times , in wayes of query , disputation , and preaching , and then to leave all men to worship god according to their several wayes , even misbelievers , hereticks and iewes themselves , and others that yet believe not in christ , but deny him , till the lord lend them light by the word of truth , and to stand or fall to their own master christ jesus , to whom every conscience shall give account of it self at last , who , if any man hear his words , and believe not , nor receives , but rejects them , judges him not here , either by himself , or the civil magistrate , or by his church , any further then to non-communion with them , yet by the word that he hath spoken unto him will judge every man at the last day thus it is most evident the magistrate whether christian or heathen is to do , and not otherwise viz. to give protection to men , as men , ( living honestly , soberly and justly ) without respect to their religions , whether true or false : and as to religions , to allow tolleration to all men to practise according to their principles , the practise of whose principles is not directly destructive to the true religion , common honesty , civillity , morallity , righteousnesse , and the peace and safety of the common-wealth , as some mens principles are , if put in practise , yet verily i know none , among christians at least , save those of the two spiritualties vix . the rantizing pppriest that in his precincts ( which is the whole world , could he catch it ) would have no tolleratian for any way of worship but his own , and the ranting prophet , who would have toleration of all and more too , not onely all religions , but all , as well unciuill , unnatural , lewd , abominable , as irreligious actions , which nature it self cries shame on among beasts , & magistracy finds it self an ordinance of god to give correction to , among heathens ; for those men are now acting upon the stage , of whom iude speaks when he saies iude . what they know naturally as bruit beasts in those things they corrupt themselves : the principles of that old pppriest and this new prophet , y if practised in the hight of them , are utterly inconsistent with the standing of truth in the world untrampled ( viz. that of the priest ) and also with the standing of very manhood among men , of civility in civil states , of the common-health of the common-wealth it self ( viz. that of the prophet ) the one is so far from owning any power to be a terror to evil works and incouragement to good , that despising all government and speaking evill of dignities he holds that there is at all neither good nor evil , nor better nor worse amongst works , but all alike ; and then good lord how fast must iniquity , dishonesty , unrighteousnesse , and incontinency thrive and abound upon earth to the ripening of 〈◊〉 for the sickle when it shall be acted with allowance from such a principle as this viz. that there is now no iniquity at all ? this man would have the civil power allow all religions , and good manners too , but allowes of none , at least thinks he needs use none himself , and is for a toleration of all truth in the world , though all truth is the intollerablest thing in the world to him , and though it hath leave from him to grow besides him , and will too among some , yet he hopes to loosen it by lending it so much scope , that it may come up the more easily by the roots , and seeks what he can to kill it by his kindnesse . the other viz. thou ( pppriest ) though , that thou mayest seem to be totally for the truth , and all others to be enemies to it but thy self and thine , thou cravest ( i might say commandest , and challengest ) such a large toleration for what thou callest truth , that nothing else must be tolerated besides it , yet the truth is , the truth as it is in jesus , which is heresie with thee , is lesse beholding to thee then to the other , for it hath not so much as leave from thee to live , if it can , nay it can take no root at all , at least not thrive above ground if it do , where thou livest at the length of thy lordlines ; for like nimrod the mighty hanter before the lord , thou hast built to thy self great b b babel , a triple tower , a three-fold fort , or form of tyrannical churchlines , wherein thou seatest , and securest thy self , and whence ( being jealous least all that comes neer thee under the name of truth , should undermine thee ) thou fightest it afar off . thou art ( as it were ) a wild man like ismael , having thy hand against every man , and every mans hand against thee , dwelling alone , as much as thou canst , in the midst of thy brethren , by thy sword , and thy bow , by cutting and slashing , and shooting out thy sharp arrowes , even bitter words , viz. hereticks , hereticks , against all that heed not what thou sayest , before thou hearest them : these are the rough hands of esau , wherewith thou handlest thy brother iacob , that will obtain the blessing before thee ; ttthou art the heads of that eagle , spoken of esdras cap. . cap. . and wheresoever thou lookest and spreadest thy black wings , thou lookest that all other birds should tremble under thee , and be subject to thee , so that none of old , durst so much as chirp against thee , no not one creature upon earth , but so soon as any began to appear any where within thy range , that was not pullus aquilae a chicken of thy own brood , thou hast rapaciously torn it with thy talents , and made it a prey to thy young ones , and whersoever thy wonted principle of persecution for conscience hath taken place , and thy gawdy , greedy , griping government stood up in full force , the truth hath lien groaning , and grovling under thee upon the ground . thus verily hath it been not onely for ages and generations within the dominions of the old bruitish , but also more lately under the domination of our bbrittish priesthood . yea thou o p p priest hast been such a thicket of thorns to the lilly that she could never flourish upwards without a thousand scratches from thee ; such a tall crop of tares , as hath overtopt , starved , and strangled the wheat . ttthou knowest not what spirit ttthou art of , thou wouldst fain command fire to come down from heaven * and consume them ( as if it were christs mind ) that receive not christ jesus in the wayes of thy own invention : thou judgest them that are without , that are none of thy c c church ( whom , were thy church the true church , thou should leave to god to judge cor. . ) if they be but in the same nations wherein thy church is , and that shrewdly too sometimes , when thou canst get the strength and power of states to stand to thee , and execute such censure as thou saiest is due to hereticks and schismaticks in the church , yet i cannot much blame thee , whilst thou clap'st whole common-wealths at once under thee as thy church , which ought as much to be corrected into an observance of the directories and decrees of synodical power in matters spiritual , as of the senatical in matters civill : thy chief way to cure hereticks ( when they are in health ) is to kill them : this panpharmacon is letting blood , thy present remedy against the remedilesse disease of truth-telling truth-spreading is truth treading , and present smoothering it from the vulgar , by stopping the passage of the press , and opening the pipes in the pulpit , and present tampering with the truth-teller , who , if he unsee not what he sees , is ense recidendus , to be dispatcht out of the way , ne pars sincera trahatur , lest sincere ones , that seek after truth should find it when it flies abroad , and be in-per-fected by it as well as he : thou massacrest men to the masse , slayest men into thy service books , setst up thy religion by treason , * when it can stand no more by reason , fightest with fire and sword , when thou canst do little by the spirit and word , * makest thy pen knife keen enough to cut , when thy pen is not quick enough to countetfeit , thou stopst stevens mouth with stones , and bearest him down with brick-bats that he blasphemes , when thou canst not resist the wisdome and the spirit by which he speaks , like the wolf in the fable , thou accusest the poor innocent lamb of troubling the waters , for nothing but drinking at the pure fountain , and when the lamb replies , my cause is better then thine , oh but quoth the wolf , my teeth are better then thine , i must devour thee . now therefore as to the civil magistracy , throwout all nations , tongues , kinreds and people where thou ( o proud p p priesthood ) ridest them , i humbly beg of them in the name of christ , and on behalf of his truth and people , which thou hast suppressed , that they would no longer set ttthee up as lady of kingdoms as lords over gods heritage , as supream dictators to the whole nations where they live so in all matters of religion , faith , and gospel , as that all people must fal down to thee , and worship god only according to thy more dimme and divided , then divine directions ; but that people may go forth from under thy egyptian prohibition , to serve the lord according to his own will and word , which thou hast hid from the vulgar by unknown tongues , and forcing thy own constructions on men in nations wherein its mostly truly translated , and believe no more at a venture as the p p priests believe by any law , as from the magistrate , whose duty it is not to force men to unity of faith and uniformity in religion , further then they find freedome to fall into such unity among themselves ; but to force men to live at unity and peace , in honesty and innocency , in all justice and civility one towards another , under what diversity of religion soever may be among them : and whilest any religion puts its people in mind to be subject to principalities and powers , to obey magistrates , in civil things for conscience sake , and not to resist them in rebellious waies in such cases , under pain of resisting the ordinance of god , and receiving to themselves damnation according to rom. . . titus . . pet. . . . . to see that it have as mutuall protection from them , as it yields subjection to them : for this is the good will of god concerning them , as such , and whether they be heathens or christians , they are gods ministers to attend continually upon this very thing , viz. to re●der unto all men their dues , as men viz. a room in quiet in the world of what wayes of religion soever , yea though indians , and redress of any civil wrongs , as they expect to have all men , of what religions soever within their power , to render to them their dues of tribute , honour , custome , fear , for for this cause pay they their tribute also , because magistrates are gods ministers to the world ward , and to the church as part of the world , and in no other sense then as to the rest of the world , to attend continually on this very thing : to dispense praise or punishments for civil good and evil among men , not spiritual , for then they may punish evill thoughts , proud looks , ignorance , non-profiting by the word , not gods church-ministers , to dispense good or evil , for good or evil done in the church , but as the same actions may have reference to the state also , as theft , or the like civil abuse , which comes one way under the churches censure , and another way under the common-wealths : they are not i say church ministers , nor ministers to the church qua church , as the priests principle seemes to make them , for then they may claim not only tribute , but tith also as well as the priest , but that he will be loath to part with , though in truth it belongs to him for his church wasting work full as little as to the other . i humbly beg therefore ( i say ) of the powers , that truth which hath been trod under foot may be tolerated among them in their several civil states , common-wealths and kingdomes , and to the end it may undoubtedly be so , let all that which the powers in the several nations do judge in their own consciences to be truth in point of religion , have toleration and protection , and no more countenance by them , as magistrates , but bare protection from injury , as other waies also may have , and not such extraordinary supports from a power heterogeneal to that of the church , nor such extraordinary gratulations , gratuities , revenews , incomes , preferments , and portions out of the common state-stock ( let their own private purses be as open to them , & such as professe it pay to its ministry as much as they will ) for besides the partiality of this thing of making other religions , and wayes that judge themselves to be the truth as well as that , pay and be tributaries to the true one , and the g●umbles it will ingender in mens minds , this proves the greatest mischief under heaven to the truth , when the ministers , who should expect nothing but shame , and suffering with their master , who was beelzebub , are flusht with the outward pomps and vanities of this world till they forget themselves so , as scarce to know what ground they stand on ; and howbeit magistrates may mean honestly in their high honourings of them ( as that good man constantine the great did ) yet as his high embraces , and graces done to christian bishops proved ( besides his intent ) the stirrup , whereby those lord beggars got up on horse back , and rode to the devil ( for so hath that romish whore rid both her self , and the beast under her which is christ'ndome ) so though i hope it never will , yet it may possibly be so again , if care be not taken against it , witnesse the two other more seemingly modest and maidenly minions , episcopacy and presbitery , which ( qua ministry ) came out of her loines , who have not brought the world so far out of that old babilon towards sion as they pretended to do by reformation , as else they might have done , being slugged , & luld asleep by benefits , and benefices in the way ; for positâ eâdem causà ponitur idem effectus sublat â tollitur , golden cups ever yet made wooden priests , and ever will do ; let truth have liberty , and peace , it will desire no more of the state if it be truth indeed . and secondly , let all other wayes and religions besides that which the magistrate judges to be truth , that judge themselves to be in the truth ( save that of those whose very way ( as abovesaid ) is no way but dishonesty , and whose way is to root out all wayes but their own by civil power ) be also tolerated , practised and protected from outward violence , and oppression as well as that , for this besides the knitting of the hearts of men of all wayes under one civill power , in intire love and strong affection to that power that domineers not ore their conscience * , besides that i say this tolerating all practices in point of religion , save that practise of non toleration of any but it self in civil states , must needs tolerate the truth among the rest , whether it ly in this way or that , and so the power shall be out of all danger and hazard of coming under the guilt of truth treading , which the pppriesthood hath engaged the civil power in for years together , as else it cannot , for if toleration be of no way but one , then if that chance to be the wrong , ( and the magistrates are no more sure then other men , that they are in the right , * yea to they are not if they use civil violence to others , first , because the false wayes are many , and broad , and easie , and fine , and the true way but one , and that so streit and narrow , mean and base , that not many noble , and mighty , and men of power ever find it cor. . . secondly , because ( as king iames said ) persecution is a certain note of a false church ) then truth is unavoidably smothered by them , and will first or last pull vengeance upon that power , rev. . . . though it be under the name of heresie onely that he suppresses it , and plucks it up under the name and notion of weeds and tares that would else choak the wheat : besides therefore a most strict charge that christ gives mat. . that in the world i. e. the civil states and common-wealths of it the tares should stand together among the wheat untill the harvest , which alone is an argument putting all out of doubt in this controversie , he gives this good reason viz. least in plucking up the tares , the wheat also chance to be rooted up with them , t is for the wheats good therefore for the tares to stand , and for the wheats sake that christ wills they should , though not in the church yet in the world to the very end thereof . and because the divine cannot yet divine that to be christs meaning in that scripture , that false worshippers hereticks &c. may lawfully ( if not civil offenders ) be licenced to live in civil states , let us consider how sinister his own conjectures are upon it , i have met with some and some of chiefest note in this county of ken , who have shifted it of thus , saying that by the field is meant the church , not the world as we say , and christ himself interprets it in that place . secondly , that the servants , who ask whether they should pluck up the taris yea or no , and are bid to let them grow together with the wheat , are not the civil magistrates , but christs disciples , who had nothing to doe to pluck them up , and so the civil magistrate may do it no withstanding : to this purpose i have been answered when i have askt in way of querie the sense of that place . to which i say , first , that by the field is most necessarily meant the world , and not the church . first christ so expounds it himself , the field ( saith he ) is the world : but , say they , the world is oft used to expresse the church , and so may here . i reply , first , i deny that the word world in any one place of scripture signifies the church onely ; it signifies sometimes the fabrick of the universe . secondly , it signifies all man kind good and bad collectively . thirdly , sometimes the wicked onely that lie in wickednesse , iohn . . iohn . abstract and in contradistinction to the godly , and the church , but never at all the church , the godly , the elect alone abstract , and as in contradistinction to the wicked : and though i know how far forth to maintain their absurd doctrines in other cases some divines divine such a matter , yet till they shew more for it then they have ever shewed to me , or i am sure can shew out of the word ( not denying but that there is a number electorum ( i. e. ) all that believe and obey christ , exmundo electus ) their mundus electorum is haud mundus dialectus . secondly , here it cannot be the church however , because it is vox secundae intentionis , a speech that is expounded by christ to be the sense of the other speech of field he used before , for if the word world were ever used for the church , it must be by a figure synechdoche , whereby a smal snip of it is signified by the whole , and then christ speaks figuratively again in his exposition of the other figurative word field , which were incertum per incertum , to open one paraboricall expression by another as paraboricall as that , which who can think christ did to his disciples , to whom his intent was to speak more plain , that they might understand him , but understand him they could not well , if while he spake figuratively at first , he did not speak properly at last however ; for whereas he had told them the field was the world , they had as much need to have asked again what the world was , if they could not think he meant plainly as he said . thirdly , the church is exprest usually by the name of christ's garden , vineyard &c. which are places more peculiar , and sequestred as cant. . . . isaiah . . ez. . and the world or part without , the church , by the name of field , forrest &c. wherein tares , wild bores , briars , thornes , as well as wheat , and saints may live . fourthly , if by field and world here is meant the church , then t will follow , that sith the tares , i. e. false worshippers , hereticks , antichristians are bid to be let alone untill the harvest , that such as these may be tolerated , not in the world or civil state onely with the church , but also in the very church it self , which toleration cannot be , for god chides that church that suffers iezebel to teach fornication in her ; and if the p p priesthood plead for such a toleration as this ( as he had need considering how his church is filled with tares more then he is either able , or willing to root out ) then ●e is for a tolleration far more intollerable then that we plead for ; for we would have hereticks and schismaticks , and erroneous false worshippers , and nominall christians , antichristians no neerer the church then in the world with them , i. e. the same states , towns , houses , but not in one and the same church-fellowship , or congregation , but they would have them stand in the church , for which sure christ gives no permission , much lesse a strick commission , as here is , that they should . but say you christ does not here mean that they shall stand , as if none had to do pluck them up , but onely forbids these servants , who were his disciples , from meddling with them , to ev●ry of whom he gives not authority to pass censures , and punish , but some may have authority for it for all that . some who are those i trow ? it must be then either the ministry , or the magistracy : not the ministry , for it is far more cleer , that by the servants here , that took notice of the tares to the housholder , is meant the servants of christ in the office of ministers , that would fain have been meddling ( as the false ministry ever does ) to root out all both out of church , and world too , that is not of institution by christ in their opinion , and such a spirit may too much shew it self in the true too , see the like spirit in his own disciples the first ministers luke . . . mat. . . . . for which christ gives them a check , and tells them they knew not what spirit they were of , and bids them let the false plants alone to the heavenly father to pluck up in his time , saying let them alone they be blind leaders of the blind , and will both in due time fall into the ditch : t is far more clear i say that t is his ministry he here forbids , then common disciples , for why should not their ministry complain of them aswell as they ? yet he bids these let them alone , which shewes too that t is the world , and not the church they are to stand in , for it belongs properly enough , and primarily to the ministers , with consent of the church , executively to passe the censure of putting them out of the church . secondly not the magistracy , for if it were the church as they say it is , how miserably do they mope ( and yet so the priest does ) that make him the highest officer in the church to cast persons out of the church , who is ( though the highest officer over the church , and world too , yet in truth ) no church officer , or minister in the church ( qua church ) at all . besides lastly , which puts all out of doubt , the prohibition is to all men as well as some , and sounds forth the mind of christ to be , that the tares shall stand in the field till the harvest , and not be pluckt up by any at all , but stand till the harvest they cannot according to his will , if according to his will either magistrate , or minister might pluck them up , out of the field , what field ere t is that is here spoken of : his will is not only that such shall not pluck them up , but that they shall not be pluckt up until the harvest , i. e. the end of the world , till he sends his angels to gather the tares , all things that offend , every plant , that the heavenly father hath not planted , out of his kingdome , which taken at large is the whole world , and to bundle them for the fire . to all these many more reasons may be added why the magistrate may not force men at all in matters of faith , repentance , religion , worship , see barbers answer to the essex watchmens watch-word , p. . &c. the magistrate receives no charge from god about religion , neither is cura ammarum , but cura corporum onely committed to him . luther himself was of this mind , that the lawes of the magistrate extended no further then to the bodies and goods , that which is external , and that god would have none to rule in the soul , but himself , therefore where the magistrate goes about to govern in the conscience , he usurps that jurisdiction , which god reserves to himself , certainly this is that great arrogany in the whore or woman of sin , which god will severely punish , in that s s shee gives lawes to the conscience , and sits in the temple and church of god as a god. king iames in parliament said , that it is a sure rule in divinity that god never loves to plant his church with violence and blood , and again in his apology for the oath of allegeance p. . speaking of the papists that took the said oath , that he gave a good proof of it that he never intended persecution for conscience , but onely desired to be secured of them for civil abuses , that it was usually the condition of christians to be persecuted , but not to persecute . again , faith and repentance to acknowledgement of the truth is gods gift ( and if wee 'l believe our clergy ) no way in every mans power , no not by gift from god to perform , and so the magistrate must punish men belike , because god , who gives where he lists , does not give them to believe &c. again blasphemers , persecutors , as paul , idolators , as the corinthians , yea iewes , turks and pagans may be converted in time by the word , therefore are not to be plucked up out of the earth , for then they can never possibly repent . again persecution was never taught by christ nor practised by his apostles , but arose among heathens , and was continued by ( the roman ) antichrist , and his ministers . * yet there 's one way more , whereby they evade all this , and that is by denying that by the tares here are meant hereticks , false worshippers , and antichristians , and asserting them to be hypocrites in the church ; and this is the way of mr. cotton ( whereby you may see again how divines are divided among themselves in all things almost , as well as some ) which mr. cotton , in a book , which the bloody tenet relates to gives out ( as i remember ) that by tares is meant hypocrites in the church , who are so like the wheat , that they cannot well be discovered , nor discerned from it , and so must be let alone in the church , by the ministers of the church , least they mistake and pluck up wheat instead of tares , and cast out men for hypocrites , who its possible may be sincere for ought we know . in answer to which i must confesse men that cast out persons for hypocrites , had need be pretty wary , and not overhasty , yea better an inconvenience than a mischief ; bet●er erre in letting some hypocrites stand in the church , then for hast cast out one that seemes to be so to us , and yet is not . but this is not the sense of our saviour in this place , for as it cannot be the church that the tares are here bid to be let alone in ( as i have shewed above ) so much lesse by the tares can be meant hypocrites , so neer the wheat , i. e. true saints in shew , and likenesse , and pretence , as to be hardly discerned from them . for first , though hypocrites are like saints , and appear so to be oft , it may be alwaies , to the deceiving of us , yet the tares are not at all like the wheat , nor at all to any , but such as are stark blind , appearing to be wheat . secondly , an hypocrite in the church ( who is one that app●ars to be what he is not ) must be supposed while he is in the church , to be discovered , or not discovered so to be , when not discovered , he is no hypocrite to us , to whom things are , as they appear ( what ere he may be to god ) but as true a saint as the rest ; and when discovered ( till when to us he is a saint , and must stand under the notion of a saint ) then he must not stand in the church , which is not to harbor any that are palpably wicked , and who is so palpable as he , whose simulata sanctitas is dulplex iniquitas . but now first , the tares hee spoken of are plainly said , and seen to be tares , and appeare to be tares , and a distinct stuff from the wheat ; and yet for all that they are bid to be let alone in the field , as hypocrites must not be in the church , when they appear to be such . but in the field , i. e : the world t is true enough that hypocrites may stand , even after they are cast out of the church , unlesse they act any thing that civil justice will reach them for , and so also may antichristians , and all false worshippers . t is evident then that in this place , as well as matth. . . . that in the time of the gospel church , tares that much hinder the wheat , that are mingled in the same field , world , civil states , countreyes , common-wealths , of satans sowing among the wheat , weeds , nettles , bryers , thorns , plants that are not of the heavenly fathers planting , fa●se worshippers , hereticks , men and their ministryes of false religions , doctrines , faiths , waies of serving god , may and ought by permission , and commission from christ be let alone , and allowed to stand , by no means in the same church , by all means in the same world , or part of the world locally considered , for the church is not locally considered as a place measured by , and consistent of such or such a compasse of ground , as the popes parish churches did , whereupon they went on procession once a year , lest they should forget the bounds of their church , but mystically , of such or such a company of men , however scattered locally here or there , yet in one fellowship , i say in the same part of the world , nation , city , countrey , civill corporation , with the wheat , saints , true church , under the protective power of civil magistracy free from molestation , meerly for their religion , so be they live justly , soberly and peacably with all men , any thing said to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding by the priest , who of all men hath least reason to be against toleration of tares in the world , and of plants which the heavenly father never planted ; if he consider what he is himself , and unlesse he desire to be rooted out in hast by the civill power , before his time . see the parable , and read it , with the exposition of it mat. . . &c. he that sowed good seed in the field is the son of man , i. e. christ , the field is the world , therefore not the church , the good seed or wheat are the children of the kingdom , i. e. the saints the true church , and worshippers , the tares , which while men slept , and did not mind it , the enemy came and sowed among the wheat , i. e. in the same parts and places of the world , towns , countreyes , &c. locally considered , the children of the wicked one , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thes. . that wicked , false worshippers of god after their own inventions , mens precepts , not his will , people and priests grown up into a church , worship , ministery , religion insensibly by little and little , from false principles , and foundations , custome , forefathers , prudential additions of orthodox men &c. not the pure naked word it self : a people born to their religion , yea their christian religion in the way of flesh , and blood , and the will of man , of the pope and councells constituting , and civil powers from them commanding ; not of god by the word of truth . the enemy that sowed them is the devil , for he indeed filled the whole world even the whole christian world , with false worshippers , false principled clergy men , and when he could not kill the wheat , the christians in the ten persecutions in his open war against them by the mouth of th● beast , or empire heathen , wherein he prosecuted them under their own names , because constantine a christian was come now to the crown , then he turned , christian himself , and would have christianity imbraced by all meanes , by a law , and sowed the seed of false principles , of stablishing christian religion , as the onely religion , before which all other shall now down , promoting christianity in the shell , that he might kill it in the substance , causing great honours , revenues , peters patrimonies to be given in favour of christianity , from which principles , selfish , ambitious , lazy , luxurious ministers , as the pope , formall meer nominal christians grew up , and overtopt the truth and true saints , that kept close to the truth , in the midst of all this mock shew , wherin the devil hath kept an apish imitaon of christs church all along , and ministry , ordinances , baptism , supper , church censure , but all corrupt , and trod the holy city to the ground rev. . the same subtle one , now he sees his trade of forcing men from the truth by the principle of conformity to the false christianity , and the old spiritualty fail , is now shifting himself undoubtedly in to another spiritualty , that will as much corrupt , & delude the world by the principle of liberty of conscience abused , and turnd by the ranter into license , though we who plead for liberty of truth say in maxima libertate est minima licentia , in the greatest liberty of conscience to serve god , there 's the least licence to serve the devil by our lusts , and corrupt our selves in what we know naturally as bruit beasts ; nor is that conscience that makes conscience of nothing . the harvest is the end of the world , the reapers the angels , by whom at that time christ will throughly purge his floor , and gather his wheat into his barn and burn up all chaff , tares , husks , weeds , bryers , thornes , idolators , hypocrites , subtle seducers , and sinful subverters of the truth , whoever shall appear to have been such , and all other trash , with unquenchable fire matth. . . mean while i say still tares may stand among wheat locally in one country , yet not lawfully in one church society . weeds and flowers , roses and nettles , lillies and thornes , vines and brambles , idolatours and true worshippers , believers and infidells , the children of the kingdome and of the wicked one , the temple of god and idols , christs church and the devils chappel , discovered hypocrites and sincere saints , christians of all sorts , save such whose very principle prohibits toleration , and they make the case uncapable to be , which will win or loose all , stand alone or not at all as whether the p p priesthoods do not , or at least did not , let all men judge jews , turks and pagans may be lawfully allowed their religions , living in subjection under one civil power , if the whole world were but one monarchy , in one world , in one field , or common-wealth , though not in one garden , not in one vineyard or church ; and may not be made to be of the true religion whether they will or no : yea i appeal to the conscience of any sober minded man , whether if pontius pilate , whom the scripture stiles the governour of iudaea ( and a lawful governour over the church , a very heathen may be , but no heathen lawfully , a member , much lesse an officer or a governour in the church ( whether i saie if pilate should have been converted by christ at the bar , while he sate on the bench , and truely believed in him : it would have pleased christ : that he should have improved his civil power to have established christianity in iudaea : and forced all men under penalty to believe in christ , and renounce all meer jewish worships ; or whether it had been as lawful a decree in augustus caesar to have forced all men to be christians under a penalty , as t was in him , to issue out a decree , that all the world should be taxed ? i suppose not , but that he must have left all to their waies , and have practised it himself , and protected it from injury , and propounded it to all in way of preaching , but not prosecuting any by his civil power , if they would yet remain jewes or heathens ; and christ might as easily have made emperors his disciples had he meant that the gospel should be established by civil power . and this is for the further safegard , and advantage to the wheat ( as i sayd before ) for christ gives this reas●n why he would have the tares to be let alone , least by rooting out the tares , the wheat be rooted out also : for if all religions may stand , then the true one may stand in quiet , without disturbance , if all people may walk every one in the name of his god , mich. . . then we may walk in the name of the lord our god for ever and ever , but if all be beaten down in a state , and but one stand , ten thousand to nothing it is not the truth that is there established : for truth may be trodden down , but treads not down others in a violent way of persecution . besides if true religion establish it self alone in some states , by forcing men to subject to it , its gives a bad example to false religions in other states , that think themselves in the right , to do the like , and force men that love the truth there , to submit to them , and so there 's quit for quo , and no end of disturbances , they saying that we are tares , we that they are , and so there is nothing but pulling up by the roots , if toleration be not tolerated , as the most peacemaking principle , and so in these bussles if the wheat grow alone some where , it must fall elsewhere , even every where , where the tares are resolved to stand alone , and so homo homini lupus , christianus christiano diabolus , men must be wolves and devils each to other throughout the world . besides , if the power in any place be ignorant , and under an erring conscience that conscientia errans , will oblige him , seemingly to himself at least , to tread down truth , and set up false hood , and all this by a law , yea if the magistrate take the part of any religion against all other , so as to establish it alone , and root out them , whether it be the true one or a false one that he sets up , not tolerating all others , but forcing them to submit to it , the mischief is in a manner intolerable , on either hand ; for if false , have not we all felt the smart of being forc't to false wayes , smectimnus as well as others ? if he hath not forgotten the groans , that for liberty of conscience came once out of his own mouth , while he was crusht under him , that was crusht under the popedom , but in the marian dayes above : but if true the forcing men to own it before they see ground freely to receive it , makes a world of formalists , of nominal christians , who had as good be nothing at all , as no better then they are , & of hypocrites , which are worse then nought , the worst sinners in the world : for is it not better for me to remain a jew under a blind conscience , till i see the truth , then to turn christian against my ( though blinded conscience ) for fear of men , before convinc't , or before i yet see it to be the truth ? a forced feigned profession for fear of men , if it happen to be of the truth it self , is at best but splendidum peccatum a guilded sin . besides t is to weave the spiders webbe as isa. . to make laws and penalties to bind conscience , which brawny conscienc't men can creep ore , let them be what they will , as we see in nebuchadnezzars dayes , and in the popes time , and ever since , all people for fear fall down and worship the golden image the king and clergy sets up , save such as fear god indeed . and if it be thought that if the civil power take not the part of truth ( as i wonder where and when ever it did , at least since constantines times , till of late ) it will be lost more in the croud of errors and heresies , that will ensue a general toleration , then any other way it can : i say , let truth alone , and turn it loose to plead fully for it self , and it will work out its way and live , and thrive , maugre all the entanglements it can have from tares : plain truth may be trusted to treat with the subtlest and proudest opposers it hath in the world , that ( caeteris paribus ) do make head against it : but if it be set against by the forrain power of a civil sword , premi ( yet then too hand supprimi ) potest : do but defend it onely from injury equally with others by the civil , and then it will defend it self by the spirituall sword against them all . wherefore i again humbly represent that grave councel of gamaliel , whose reason is good , to all the civil magistrates throughout the earth , by whose subjects t is sharpely controverted , and zealously quaeried what is truth , viz. that they refrain from meddling more with men , though they seem mad men to the world , and besides themselves for the sake of truth in pretence , lest happily they be found fighters against god , for if any way be not of god , t will in gods time come to nought of it self , and ye cannot establish it , if of god you cannot withstand it , but t will come on , in this juncture specially , wherein it dawns toward the great day , and god is about to pluck up every plant he hath not planted ; and if men be in your apprehension blind leaders of the blind in things of god , yet let them alone , if they will not go to the right way when called to it , they will see , when they both fall into the ditch . and likewise i humbly beg that what is further and more clearly held forth concerning this subject of liberty of conscience by mr. blackwood , in the first part of his storming of antichrist , may be well weighed by our magistrates , together with the thirty quaeries presented to them lately by mr. iohn goodwin , and his vindication of them against the apologist , neither of which ever will be answered solidly by their parish ministers . and as for the p p priesthood it self ( though i hope the night is too farre spent for any ( save such as will be ignorant , and if any man will be ignorant , let him be ignorant saith paul , cor. . . and so say i ) to doubt but that the day is dark over them and theirs ) they are blind leaders of the blind in many things , which many others see , of whom yet they are asham'd to learn , and which is worse , such as stand not a little in their own light , by snuffing at it that the russet rabbies , and clergy of laicks should presume to instruct them more perfectly in the way of god , which god in these daies ( wherein the last must be first , and the first last ) will subject the proudest spirited priests in christ'ndom to take from some illiterate , and perhaps , non-sensical , yet honest hearted saints stammerers in speech , babes ( with them bablers ) as of old eloquent apollos from aquila and priscilla , or else it may be hid from their eyes . and though what they would not that others do to them , when they were underlings each to other , they have done unto all other professions , that were underlings to them in the day of their raign , hasting what they could to the hunting of the sectaries out of their synagogues ( or their native rights and enjoyments therein ) which they have subjugated to be their synagogues , counting the compasse of whole common-weals , and kingdomes little enough for them to lord it over , and set their several names of papal , prelatical , or presbyterian there , confounding , and babilonishly blending church & state power together , so that t was hard for any token clearly which was which , or to know where to set the sole of his foot almost upon european ground in any nation , but he and all ( his conscience and all ) must come under the command , and fall within the verge of some or other of their mercilesse church monarchies , yet neverthelesse my humble desire to the powers on their behalf is that they may be tolerated and protected in the practise of what profession , religion , way of worship , doctrine , discipline , or church-government soever they see occasion among themselves , and such as shall see occasion to cleave to them , or any of them , to set up , so far as they shall desire to build their several bbbabels without that blood of souls and bodies of men , in which they have imbrued both their own , and the princes hands of the christian nations in former dayes : i heartily plead for a toleration for them , if ever the power shall ( as not a few people already do ) discern them to be as heretical , and schismatical from the truth , as they have judged all others to be , such toleration i mean , as may not be inconsistent with the toleration of all other people , and professions of religion in the several nations in peace together with them , and in security from such searches as have been made by their surrogates paritors and proctours &c. after men as unsufferable schismaticks that side not with them : but a toleration of them in that wonted tyranny of treading all under their feet , and plucking up all plants by the roots that live beside them by the civil power , when they once have censured them ●or such seditious ones as are not fit to be suffered in a state because they submit not to their statelinesse , and complain'd of them to kings as haman to ahasuerus of the jewes , the true churches type , saying esth. . . there is a certain people scattered abroad , and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kindom , and their laws are divers from all people , neither keep they the kings laws , therfore it is not for the kings , ( alias not the ccclergies ) profit to suffer them , and made their modest request that if it please the king it may be written that they may be destroyed , which conscience of correcting hereticks , that conform'd not to the ccclergies christianity , carried christian kings to condescend to in old time , this toleration is too intolerable in all conscience . i wish well to the persons of the men called ccclergy ( god is my witnesse ) but i wish not so well to their way as to wish it up in the way wherein they would have had it : and yet i here wish they may have their way too , abating us no more of it then their unreasonable wonted wishes , that the state would allow no wayes but their own , let them pare off that knotty piece from off their principle , wherein they pray the powers to beat all men into the belief of all they say by the sword , the belief of which they can never beat into them by the word , then let them and their party practise what they please : let their way be no way of civill violence to all other wayes and then in civil peace let them walk in it till they are weary : and let it stand till by the word it fall before the true one , if it be such a noun adjective that it cannot stand by it self in scripture , sense and reason , without such a substantive as the civil sword to support it , t is a sign that there 's far more shew , then substance in it : for verily that gospel that will not stand not onely without , but against the edge of caesars sword encountring with it , is antichrists , but none of christs gospel to me : yet such it seems is the ccclergies gospel , which freedom to set it up by other wayes leaves still as helplesse , as hopelesse , of ever standing , unlesse it may be stablisht against all other wayes , on the necks of all people by the carnal weapons of caesars civil state ; it s very doubtful of entring the feild with no other strength then its own canons , unlesse the state lend it her ordinances to back them : but if baal be a god , me thinks he might speak for himself against them that throw down his altars , without imploring all the gods of the earth to speak for him ; if the multitude of his priests cannot set up his worship , without the magnitude of earthly princes to relieve them , let it go , and a good riddance of it too , if dagon * cannot stand on his own legs , but must fall before the ark , unlesse the benevolence of others lift him up , his pppriests may set him up as much as they will for themselves , but they shall never set him up again for me . neverthelesse i am as freely willing , sith t is the will of christ , and his testament , that even baalitish , romish worshippers should have a room , and being in the world by the civil magistrates permission , they yielding civil subjection * even to the end thereof , as i am willing there should be a room and being in it for the truth , for though the prophets of baal were put to death in reforming elijahs time , in the old church of israel , which was the type , yet that pointed out no more then that spiritual execution , which is to be done on iezebel , and her false worships in the true church in these reforming times of the gospel , not one of which may abide any more in the gospel israel ; yea i here seriously supplicate the civil powers for them , that their consciences no more then ours may be forced by any forinsecal power to act in church worships contrary to their conviction , but if nought will content the pppriesthood at all ( as of old it would not ) but that all hereticks , as they call them , that hearken not to their traditions , must be clublawd into conformity to their parochial precepts , so far at least as to obey the hue and cry of their purses , without free leave from their own consciences so to do , then ( protesting against the iniquity of their desires after the persecution of those , who desire the protection of them from persecution by the civill power ) my most humble suit to the supreme powers is , that they will be pleased , as to let the pppriesthood preach as much as they please ( a little of which work serves the turns of some of them ) and to let such as are satisfied in their souls and spirits , that they ought to do both , to own and pay them , so to let such as seem to themselves on sufficient grounds to have clear cause to decline them , have the freedome of their consciences to be none of their flocks , and being none of their flocks , a freedom from being forcibly fleec'd by them any more ; and if the ccclergy shall he angry at this without a cause , to let them be pleased without amends , sith t is most evident , that as men ought not to be constrained against their wills , to be of christs , much lesse of the ccclergies flock , so he that feedeth a flock may freely , and not by force , live of the milk of that flock he feeds , and may not of them that are forrainers to his flock , further then they are free to supply him : they went forth freely to preach the gospel for his names sake , taking nothing , much lesse by force , of the gentiles , that were ministers to the church of old , iohn ep. . v. . and many heathenish parishes here have the gospell preacht freely to them when they accept on it by the messengers , that go forth of the true churches at this day , but many parish ministers will make all that live , or have to do within their line , buy their sermons of them , and that at their own price too , whether they like them or no , and , which is worse , though they have sold them once , it may be often , ore already ( and a dear penniworth too ) yet as oft as they remove to other livings , they carry them away along with them in their papers from the people , that have already bought and paid for them , preach them ore again , and so sell them for as much more in other places : but i hope the civil power throughout europe , as well as they do in the tenth part of it already , will take cognizance ere long , that it can be no great ease to truly tender consciences , who with the ccclergy are ever stiled sectaries and schismaticks , to lie under the lash of these lords over gods heritage , and in tender consideration thereof , and compassion to those righteous souls , who are vexed with their vanities , proclaim such a iubilee that the true spouse of christ , whom they made a keeper of their vineyard , shall have leave to keep her own vine yard , & go forth from her apprenticeship to these spiritual task-masters , that their consciences shall be no more yoaked , nor captivated to their crude and carnal conceptions , and the wings of the ccclergy so clipt , that they shall not soare so high , as they have done , over the faith of all people ; yea in the name of the blessed , and onely potentate king of kings , and lord of lords , christ iesus , i warn all the civil powers , princes and potentates of the world , that have been bewitched by the sorceries of that wwwhore , who corrupts the earth with her fornications , that they give up their power and strength no more to be improved to the forcing of the inhabiters of the earth , to drink of the golden cup , and wine of her fornications , but that they improve it rather henceforth to the freeing all men from from her conscience crushing principle of persecution by the civil sword , that submit not to her sinodical constitutions , and if they refuse to obey the will of the lord in this thing , and permit not all people to live peaceably in their several forms of worship , they behaving themselves civilly , and in all subjection to them in civil matters in their several states , i testifie unto them that then the hand of the lord will be so heavy upon them , and their pppriests and people , that he will plague them as certainly as he did egypt , pharoah and his magicians till they let his israel go forth , and serve him as he required . yea ( o ye powers ) if ye shall yet persevere to tyranize over truth , and trample upon tender consciences , and force all men to that one faith which the men , or rather the woman rev. . the ccclergy in their counsels make the standard through you several states , the lord christ will tread you and your people in his wrath , and trample you in his fury , and stain all his raiment with your blood , and strengthen your own subjects against you and your pppriesthood , iiiezebel , that stirs you up , whose lovers you are , with invincible courage , and irresistable wrath against you , to suppresse your miserable misgovernment , and cast her into a bed , and you that commit adultery with her , into great tribulation except you repent of your deeds , yea he will endlessly imbroile you in wars one against another , about your false faiths , and anti-christian christianities , and bring plagues upon you , the sword , famine , death , and destruction , that he may repay unto you the things that have been done unto his chosen , and will hold his tongue no longer as touching the wickedness of that kind , which hath been profanely committed , but as innocent and righteous blood crieth unto him , and the souls of the just complain continually ; so the lord will surely avenge them , and receive unto him all the righteous blood from among them * behold his people hath been led as a flock to the slaughter , but he will not suffer them now to dwell any longer in the land of egypt , i. e. under the lordly tyranny of the pppriesthood , who is that threefold great city bbbabilon , which is also spiritually called sodom , for her spiritual whoredoms , and egypt rev. . . the land of israels captivity , in the streets , within the territories of which the carcases of christs witnessesly dead , where also our lord was crucified . * but he will bring them out with a mighty hand , and a streched out arm , and will smite eeegypt with plagues as before , and will destroy all the land thereof ; eeegypt shall mourn , and the foundation of it be smitten with the plague , and punishment that god shall bring upon it : like as they do yet this day unto his chosen , so will he also do , and recompence unto their bosom , and he will make the princes of the earth to know , that t is christs right alone to rule over the consciences of the children of men , and that no meer man may sit as a judge there : and thou ( o pppriest ) shall know that christ alone is king in his church , and in the conscience , and the true ministers , but meer ministers , or servants unto both , and not masters over either , and that the civill state is the element , and the orbe , which the magistrate onely is to move in under him , and that only meerly in matters civill , and that thy self , who art a creature not of gods , but of thy own creating , and hast usurp'd a supreme jurisdiction , at least a jurisdiction over all these , hast nothing ( but naught ) to do in any of them at all , and as thou art no plant of the heavenly fathers planting , so shalt assuredly be plucked up by the very roots , from all thy pretences , priviledges , provinces , parishes , and other profits and places , in which thy earthly father the pope hath planted thee : yea thou shalt be weakned as a poor woman with stripes , and as one chastised with wounds , so that the mighty and lovers shall not be able to receive thee : would i with jealousie have so preceeded against thee saith the lord , if thou hadst not alway slain my chosen , exalting the stroak of thine hands , and saying over their dead , when thou wast drunken , set forth the beauty of thy countenance ? the reward of thy whordome shall be in thy bosom , therefore shalt thou receive recompence , like as thou hast done unto my chosen ( saith the lord ) spoiling and destroying them that fear the lord , wasting and taking away their goods ( tearing them with thy teeth for tith ) and casting them out of their houses , even so shall god do unto thee , and shall deliver thee unto mischief , thou shalt be cast down by them as stubble , and they shall be to thee a fire : look what thou hast they shall spoil it , and marre the beauty of thy face : and the glory of both thou o poor princely pppriesthood , and of all those pppriestly princes that adhere to thee , shall be dried up , as a flower , when the heat shall arise that is sent over thee . be wise now therefore o yee kings , be instructed ye that are judges of the earth , see that you serve the lord with fear in your own persons , according to his own will and way revealed in his word , and know , that howbeit you are the gods of the earth , to judge all men that are under you , whether in the church , or of the world , in earthly cases , and matters of meer secular concernment , that you are not the gods of heaven , that is the church , so far as to meddle at all ( as earthly judges ) to correct in those meer heavenly cases : and though the pppriests perswade you t is a piece of acceptable service to god , to let your whole nations be by law from you compelled to be their churches , that , as you [ civilly ] so they [ uncivilly ] may go hand in hand [ moses & aron like ] & share with you in subjecting violen●●y all souls & your selves too to their sssacerdotall suggestion in soul cases , & that you may lawfully punish hereticks into the hearing of them , & banish them into a blind obedience to their directions , yet i am bold in the lord to assure you , that as you should have little thank from him , should you force men to such a worship as ( for the matter of it ) is according to christs will , against their own , so will he once check you in wrath ( if you repent not in time ) for forcing all men to worship after the ccclergies will against christs ; for as the first is at best but a piece of honest ignorance , so this last is at least no lesse then a piece of divellish darknese rev. . . . hearken no more therefore ( o ye the magistrates ) as you respect the true good of your republiques , to the clamors of your ccclergy , when they cry out to you to hunt out hereticks , i. e. such as after the way they call heresie so worship god , whereby they run you unavoidably , if you run after them , upon certain ruine , and on the hazard of fighting against god , and then wo be you , & of rooting the wheat , his saints , out of the field , the world in which it ought to stand , and the tares too even till the harvest , and of infinit cumbrances , inconveniences , and brangles about church matters , wherein , as magistrates , you are not so immediately concerned as they dictate to you , who are such a contentious sect of men , both with all others , and each with other about one church businesse or other continually ▪ that t is impossible ( now specially since truth is returning home , which they have so long driven from her own border ) but that the nations will be imbrued in their own , and one anothers blood , in defence of their fopperies , if you engage as oft as they would egge you to it on their behalfs : what animosities have ever been between the temporalty , and these lords spiritual ? what quarrels and jarres between the fryers of several orders ? what whole countrey clashes , and consumptions have been made in germany between the calvinists and lutherans ? what inveteracy between the c c clergy of the severall f f formes of government ? which though they can agree all against the true clergy or heritage of god , yet hate each other unto the death , yea oh the infinite wranglings and little lesse then divellish dissentions , wherewith as with a fire they have wasted all corners of their ccchristendomes , that they have been more like the places of burying dead bodies , then like the houses of christs flock , yea they have consumed themselves in their miserable burning , whilest in their holy wars they have called in severally the civil sword to the ultimate determining of their spiritual controversies , and made carnal weapons the instruments of their churches warfare , as if the best way to convert the nations to christ , were to convert them to dust and ashes : how have they foamed upon occasion of different opinions , so as to tear and rend people to pieces , and engage them , & their princes at swords point for their lusts and wills sake ? how have they cast the people from one element to another , one false way unto another , till they have made whole countreys , cities , and their own academies aceldamaes , feilds of blood , and like foaming and raging waves of the sea , striving together for the dictates of that kind of clergy still that they are the sectaries of ; insomuch that some observant spirits have wisht to dy , and depart this life among other ends for this , that they might be delivered from the sight of the implacable hatred of divines : all which things also do take off the magistracy from attendance to their main businesse of relieving the oppressed , judging the fatherlesse , pleading for the widow , and the works of justice , and mercy among their people , which god will have , and not sacrifice , and take better from them , then the improvement of themselves to set up either the pope , the prelate , or the presbyter , or establish any form of religion whatsoever by a law . oh therefore that the powers would consider it ( though i fear me most nations in christendome will not till they pay dear for their learning ) and leave their people free to chuse what god they will serve , and which way they will serve the true god , by suffering all waies to stand before them in the world , and be objected fairly to their tryall , then shall truth be sure to be told them as well as err●ur , and leave them without excuse that shall reject it : mean while as to the civil interest of the whole , and each part of their commonwealths , to see strictly to it that they attend continually on that very thing , for which they are ( when once the ordinance of men by their election ) the ordinance and ministers of god ; and to be submitted to as both the ordinance of god and man , and that for both conscience sake and the lords , * that they attend upon the protection of all people from being injured one by another in any cases pertaining to externalls , and the maintaining of outward peace , civillity , and good manners in all men to the whole , and to each other by punishing evil doers of such a nature , and rewarding of such as do well without partiality , or respect to any persons or parties , in which cases regum est parcere subjectis , et debellare superbos : thus doing they must necessarily maintain true religion too ( so far as they are called ( as magistrates ) to maintain it ) whilst when all states have trod it down under pretence of maintaining it , that supprest all as schism that suited not with the monarchiall minds of the men called ccclergy , this state sets it up as far as men may , or can set it up , that suffers it to live , and thrive among the false : if there be any matter of wrong or wicked lewdness done by any , as well members of the true church , as any other , reason wills , * and therefore no christians , but ccclergy men and their creatures , whose way is against reason , * will be against it , that such should suffer according to the law in that behalf , whether unto bonds , or unto banishment , or unto confiscation , or unto death without benefit of the clergy , who have benedicted all benefits to themselves , and not be favoured because members , or because ministers of such churches ; neither is it fit at any that any persons should be spared , or but so much as favoured in any measure in such a case for their religions sake , though it be the true one , and they of never so high account , and eminent standing in it . for howbeit , the men who are commonly , but not properly called clergy * , but specially the clergy immediately under the popes supremacy , were priviledged so far , as to stand exempted from the reach of the civill law , and to save themselves the trouble of being hanged , when they had deserved it as much as other men , by a businesse called the benefit of the clergy , i. e. the immunity of the clergy from the civil law , * some relikes of which benefit the clergy once had , and still hath in some places , seem to me to remain in our civil courts , wherein we see in some capital crimes , the malefactour , si legat ut clericus , if he can , but read like a clerk or clergy man * , he escapes execution , when else he should have died without remedy , which favour is also called the benefit of the clergy , yet we desire that no manner of men may have exemption from the course of civil justice , yea if we whom they call anabaptists do any thing at any time worthy of death by the civil law rightly regulated we refuse not to die : but as we desire that others should , so are we willing our selves in civil matters to stand at caesars i. e. the civil magistrates judgement seat where we ought to be judged in such cases : and thus did paul , when accused by the priests as a pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition meerly for preaching the gospel : to the jews , saith he , have i done no wrong , nor yet against caesar have i offended &c. therfore no man may deliver me to them , i appeal unto caesar act. . . . . . . . where we see that in case of civil injury charged upon him as committed by him he appeals to cesar to judge , though cesar was a heathen , and he a christian , and not of cesars religion , which he had been a mad man in doing , had the question been simply about the right religion , yea when any question a ro●e in the church about religion , as in the point of circumcision act. . the apostles , elders and brethren considered of it among themselves , consulting the mind of the spirit in the word , and had they not agreed it , they would not have referred it , nor , had any not conformed to their determination in that point , would they have complained of them to cesar : and as paul would not stand at cesars judgement seat in religious , as he desired to do in civil , so cesars deputies would not meddle at all , as magistrates , in religious cases : for when the jews set paul before the judgement seat of gallio deputy of a●haia , and complained saying , this fellow perswadeth men to worship god contrary to the law , gallio said ▪ if it were a matter of wrong , or wicked lewdnesse ; o ye iews , reason would that i should bear with you , but if it be a question of words , and names , & of your law , look ye to it , for i will be a jud●e of no such matters , and he drave them from the judgement seat , as who should say , we are set to keep civil peace and right among you , but not at all to determine you in your worships : oh therfore that the magistracy would consider it that they are set not to force men to submit all to one worship , nor yet forcibly to suppresse either heresie or truth , but to prevent tumultuousness about either . if demetrius , and the craftsmen of like occupation who make shrines for diana have a matter of wrong against any , let the civill law be open , and let them plead each other there ; but if the enquiry be concerning other matters ( as namely setting at nought their craft , prophaning the temples of their goddesse and destroying their false worships by plain preaching of truth , what 's heredox , what orthodox in worship , &c. ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let that be determined in a lawfull assembly , i. e. as the word is in the greek insome lawful church , congregation , or select meeting for that purpose . last of all though the lord prohibit the standing of idolators &c. in the church cor. . rev. . yet he himself , who could presently root them out , if t were his mind , permits not onely true , but also false worshippers , hereticks &c. to have a being in the world , and therefore me thinks gods vicegerent should not be against it : it is according to the will of god himself permitting , not approving them , that heresies do arise , but its according to his good will approving , and in his wo●d appointing that they shall stand in the world , when risen , further then they can be annihilated by the word . and as the scripture shewes how far he himself tolerates them , so the divines themselves ( as shy as they are of having them tollerated ) do give these good reasons of gods suffering of hereticks . for the discovering of the sound , that gold and silver may be known from hay and slubvle , that by the devills sitting of us the good corn may be discerned from chaff : it is the apostles reason cor. . . that they which are approved may be known , for who they are that , with the weapons of the churches warfare , are valiant for the truth , indurers of hardship as good souldiers of christ &c. would not appear , if there were no hereticks , false worshippers , antichristians , truth treaders &c. to try them ; true love to christs truth can never be seen , if never tryed , nor tryed if truth never opposed , hated , hunted , and that to death too sometimes , by the fierce wrath , and cruel malice of its enemies . . that truth may be discussed and fetcht out as fire from the concussions o● flint and steel . truth had not been fetcht half so far out of the dark , nor from under that popish smoother of traditions at this time , as it is , had not the ccclergy so hotly hunted it , and so fiercely clasht against all that came out to clear it . if there had not been an hereticall ccclergy crying out heresie against all truth , the world had never heard so much of it in these latter daies as now it hath ; and i verily perswade my self , that as the day breakes and the shadowes fly away , the way of truth in the hearts of the just , and in the eyes of the of the world ( by how much the ccclergy calls heresie upon it ) shall shine more , and more still to the perfect day , * if luther and calvin had not been , and that so fiercely , flung at by popish priests because they preached against indulgencies , and selling pardons for money , and against the lordlines of the popish hirrachy , they had not heard so much against them , but that they might have sold more pardons , then they have done since : and the latter litters of spiritual lords ( that qua ccclergy ) came out of the popes loins , the two ppriesthoods of the protestant party might have lorded it longer like their father ( who will never be dead as long as they are alive ) had they not been as iron and steel against truth , and true worshippers whom god makes as hard as flint against their faces , that by their concussions against it , he may the more fully fetch it forth , the oppositions , and imprisonments , which paul met with from the adverse party , whereby they intended to smoother it in his daies fell out rather to the furtherance of the gospel ; for it came to be the more manifest in all places by means of errors so earnest appearance against it phil. . to . thus truth hath gained ground not a little in these latter daies by the ominous onsets wherewith falsehood fights it , and would fain fright and force it to hide its head : and wisdome works out it self not a little to light , by follies flying so furiously at the face of it . . that the truth mihgt be better loved , and more price set upon it , we prize lihgt the more by our knowledge of darkness , health by our sense of sicknesse , errour is a foil to a diamond , truth looks more lovely being compared with it . the lilly looks most lovely and beautifull , when it stands among black thornes cant. . the stars , though ever obvious to us would never shine if there were no night , contraria juxta se posita maxime elucescant , contraries set together discover each other more lively in their severall loathsome or lovely formes : the light of the sun shewes brightest , seemes sweetest , when it breaks from under a dark cloud , so does the sun of righteousnesse now arising appear the more lovely , by how much it hath been hid from the earth now of long time by that dismall darknesse , and smoak of heresies , erroneous false worships , and foolish figments with which the ccclergy hath filled all parishes throughout ccchristendome . , for the punishment of hypocrites , nominall christians , curious minds , such as have itching eares , and heap unto themselves teachers , stragling sheep fall into the wolves clutches , such as will not keep the steps of the flock , but go after the flocks of the companions ever fall into most dangers of seducement , all which is most plain by too woful experience in all nations of ccchristendome , for while christianity , and the gospel was professed sincerely , as it was ( saving some remote beginnings of mens traditions to take place against the commands of christ ) in the first three hundred years , wherein t was evidenced by the ten bloody persecutions that christians served christ for love then , and not for loaves nor for lives sake neither , for they loved not their lives unto the death , there were not half so many hereticks , or heresies as have been since : but when once after constantine , christianity comming into credit , and being not onely owned by the emperors themselves , but established by their edicts in all things according to the pattern shewed them in the word , not of christ , but of the catholique clergy convened in councels , as the religion sub paena to be submitted to , men turned christians upon such sleight grounds , and were born to that name of christianity without the nature , no otherwise then of the will of man , and were no more then nomine tenus professors of it , the lord in his just and severe judgement to these nominal christians , permitted those spiritual plagues , that we see rev. . rev. . seconded the sounding of the trumpets , to fall thick and three fold upon the world : suffered the clergy to fall to contentions , jars and janglings about their ambitious interests , viz. primacy and universallity &c. and to apostatize more and more from the plain primitive truth , and to degenerate be degrees into darknesse till they came at last to be totally blinded in things of god , and blind leaders of the blind princes and people , that implicitly give up themselves to be guided by them , that both might drop together into the ditch : yea he suffered that great star the bishop of rome , that sometime shone very bright , to fall as wormwood upon the third part of the waters , the pure doctrine of the gospel , i. e. to foist in his heresies to the poisoning and imbittering of the doctrine , so that many died , even all that drank thereof , because it was bitter and unwholsome : and he suffered the third part of the sun and moon and stars , all the means and waies of christs own institution and appointment to give light unto men by , to be smitten , and darkned corrupted , covered with false glosses , depraved with heaps of heresies , and traditions &c. crept in and authorized by the pope and his ecclesiastical doctors , so that what with the damnable and horribly devillish heresies by means of mahomet and his alcoran infecting the orientall christians through all asia , and these papisticall errors of those arch-hereticks , the pope and ccclergy , and * scholastick rabbies , who with vain deceit seduced the occidental part of the world , from the simplicity that is in christ , the day shone not for a third part of it , & the might likewise i. e. the third part of that pure and pretious truth of christ which shined in the primitive churches , was now exclipsed , and extinguisht , neither had men by the third part so much , of that clear light of christs gospel that they were wont to have in former dayes yea further in way of plague and punishment to hypocrites and meer nominal christians , the lord at last suffered that star , which fell before , or angel of the church of rome , when he was fallen from all his heavenlinesse , and love of truth , to earthlinesse and love of money , and honour from beneath , to open the bottomlesse pit , i. e. the way to the very depth of hellish darknes , and to raise up a smoak or thick fog of errors and heresies lies , & traditions , which as the smoak of some great furnace darkened the sun and air , i. e. totally put out the light of scripture , and pure administrations , which were but in part ecclipsed before , so that now nothing could be seen , ( as it were ) but popish legends , and such stuff , by the advantage of which smoother the locu●ts came out i. e. the clergy that swarmed all over the earth , in every parish one at least stinging , hurting , wounding to eternal death by their poisonous doctrines ; propounded under pretence of the word of christ , all persons , save such as have the seal of god in their foreheads , even a few witnesses to the truth , that withstood their doctrins , which locusts are said to be scorpions i. e. carrying a fair face , but stings in their tailes , and to have crowns because of their great power , for under their great king apollyon they rule all , and reign ore the kings of the earth : these are they that outwardly wear the sheeps cloathing , i. e. cloth themselves with the denominations of clergy , gods heritage , spiritual men , priests , men of god , which are the true titles of the sheep , but inwardly are ravening wolves , into whose clutches the stragling sheep that would not keep the steps of the flock of christ , but turned aside after the flocks of the companions , going at a venture which way the most went , for companies sake right or wrong , did fall , and by whose heretical principles men are in danger of perishing for ever . thus when the world would be nominally , yet not really christians , obeying the pure word of christ , would not endure sound doctrin , but , having itching ears , that loved to be tickled not grated upon , grew weary of the plaines of the gospel , saying to the seers see not , and to the prophets prophecy not , prophecy not unto us right things , speak unto us smooth things , prophecy deceits , get ye out of the way , turn aside out of the path , cause the holy one of israel to cease from before us , despising his word , and rufusing to hear the law of the lord as they of old , isa. . then the lord gave them their own hearts lusts , and sent leanes withall into their souls , granted them heapes upon heaps of such cater-pillars as should dwel at their own doors , and devoure their soules , and delude them with heresie and false divinations , and as their pay for so doing should devour also the tenth of their labours , nay the sixth in all parishes through the nations ; he removed the candlestick out of his place , and because they walked not in the light thereof whilst they had it , let darkness come upon them , he gave them priests that should teach for hire , and prophets that should divine for money , and say is not the lord among us ? none evil can come upon us , mic. . . he gave them like people like priest , a people not willing to be taught , and a priesthood not able to teach , he removed their truth-teachers into a corner , so that their eyes should see no more such teachers , nor their ears hear any voice behind them , saying this is the way walk in it , and so opened the flood gates for all manner of horrible heresies to flow in upon them , he powred upon them the spirit of deep sleep , and closed their eyes , the prophets , their rulers , their seers he covered , so that the vision of all , became unto them as the words of a book sealed , which if delivered to their learned men saying read this i pray , they cannot for it is sealed , if to their ignorant people , saying read this , they cannot , for they are not learned , t is for their orthodox divines , and not for them to read and expound the scripture , forasmuch as the people drew neer to god with their mouth , and with their lips did honour him , with gloria patries &c. but removed their hearts far from him , and would have their fear towards him taught by the precepts of men , therefore the lord proceeded to do a marvellous work in all christ'ndome , yea a marvellous work , a wonder , for the wisdome of their wise men perisht , and the understanding of their prudent men was hid , and the lord left them to do their works in the dark , and to turn all things upside down , and to put a bridle upon the jawes of the people , and ride them from ierusalem unto babilon , even to all manner of heresie , blindnesse , and confusion for ages and generations together . lastly to provoke the pastors to diligence , and watchfulness , to prove them whether they be hirelings , or not , such as will flie when the wolf comes , or lay down their lives for the sheep : therefore the apostle paul speaking specially of that very time wherein the insolency , and obstinacy of hereticks , and schismaticks should increase to such a height as not to indure sound doctrine , but rather to turn from the truth , and turn to fables , and heap false teachers to themselves to tickle them up in their lusts , preach down , and act no patience , but rather persecution toward those that preach up the truth , in consideration thereof , charges timothy to whom he left the oversight of the church at ephesus , in order to the making full proof of his ministry , to stand to it then with so much the more diligence , to preach the word , and be instant in season , and out of season , to reprove , rebuke and exhort with all long suffering and doctrine , to watch in all things , indure the afflictions that should befal him from the hands of wolvish spirited men : tim. . . ad . and indeed this is that which should move the pastors of the several congregations of christ , and such whom the holy spirit hath made overseers of that little flock of his in these daies , to take good heed both to themselves , and all that flock ; for throw the negligence of the pastors turning hereticks , yea wolves themselves in former dayes , the sheep have been most miserably misled , and rul'd over with force and cruelty ; and this will be a proof of their love to christ above their lives , if they shall give all diligence to the feeding of the sheep , and lambs of christ , not flying for fear of men from that worthy work , not forbearing , nor shunning to deliver unto them the whole councel of god at this day , though there be so many ccclergy men to croak against them for it : and here let it be well noted , that whether here , or wherever throughout this discourse , i dilate on the duty of the pastors , and put them on to performance of it , i mean the pastors of the churches , which are commonly called anabaptists , which are among the nations as sheep among wolves , as the lilly among thornes , rent and torn for their testimony to the truth , and not yyyou the pppriesthood , yyyou the pppastoralty of the parishes , for verily he is blind that beholds you not to be no pastors , but rather h●relings , yea wolves , persecutors then pastors of the sheep of christ , yea even you presbyterian pastoralty as well as others . indeed you have the boldnesse to stile your selves the ministers of christ , but you are wrapt up in a cloud of confusion and contradiction about the proof of your pedigree as from him ; yea when its closely quaeried whence you came ( i mean as to your ministerial function , and capacity ) seeing you cannot derive your ordination by a lineal * succession from the apostles otherwise , some of you ( and i judge the most ) do not deny , but that remotely you receive your orders from the pope , who ( as you say ) not as pope , but as presbyter , ordained those bishops which , not as bishops , but as presbyters ordained you presbyters ( though t will prove but priests when all is done , if the antients among you consult the common-prayer book , and form of your ordination ) a pretty series for the ministers of christ to descend in : why sirs are you not ashamed of this to cry out against the pope as antichrist , and rome as an apostate strumpet , and yet to hold all you have as a ministry from , and through these , and that too since they apostatized from the truth ? shall we think that all christs ministers descend lineally from the loines of antichrist ? ye are witnesses then against your selves that your grand-father is the pope , and so that you descended one , and the same way with those locusts , even popish priests , iesuites , monks , and friers and that you are no better born , as to your being men in holy orders , then the veriest scoundrel among them , that depends together with you upon that hierachy : mr. rutherford saies diotrephes i. e. the pope is the native father of the bishops , and therefore he must be at least the grand-father of you presbyters . yet some of you are so ashamed to have it said that , as ministers of christ , you receive your orders , and standing , as such , from antichrist , that you professe not to act in your ordinations to , and executions of the ministerial function as from gregory the great , * but to renounce that , and to ordain now not as presbyters that were in orders from such as were in orders from the pope , but rather as persons deputed so to do by the ordinances of parliament , extant to that purpose , and by the power , and appointment of the civil magistrate , who ( say you ) is he that only hath power to raise all again since the treading down in matter of both ministry and ordinances , and may as well do it with his own hands , if he please , as appoint you to do it , making him the chief officer that christ hath set in his church , to redresse all that 's amisse in it : such a mish-mash as this was once more largely uttered by mr. glenden in a discourse at swevenock in order to the proving the ministry of the church of england to be a true ministry : but if the magistrate were any church officer ( as at all he is not * ) so as that men , that have their orders from his ordinances ( as it seems the junior sophisters of this age have ) are ( as to the outward call or ordination ) true ministers of christ , yet that makes nothing to the proving of you to be so , that stand ministers of the old stamp , from the hands of the old lord bishops : besides some , yea it may be the most of you that hold your present authority to ordain in from the parliament , scarce held the parliament while , it stood , * of any authority at all since the last new modelling of it , so discontented were you that your northern model was in no more request : yea though you held it such a lawful , and sufficient power , when they made an ordinance for tith and trebble dammages , that you held your selves bound in conscience to god , or rather your own good , to obey it , and improved you selves to the utmost to see it executed on conscientious delinquents against it , yet when ordinances for double service came , as solemn fasts ( witnesse that of iun. . . ) so strictly enjoined to be observed by the ministers of every parish , how many of you drew your necks out of the coller , as not owning the then parliament to be a power , that you might lawfully submit to : thus an ordinance that is charged topful of benefice you durst venture to let off , but when one came that had nothing but bare office in the mouth of it , then they , by whose orders you pretended to stand in both benefice and office , might give order to discharge it twice , before you would once discharge it . and as your meet mongrell caesarean ; magistratical , pope-episcopall kind of ordination , together with that unworthy unpastorlike forcible obtrusion of your selves as pastors on people without their free election ; so your popelike practises and unministerly management of your selves in all other particulars , doth proclaim you plainly to be no true ministers of christs gospel , nor true pastors of the flock , but rather to be wolves , theeves , robbers , hirelings that come not in by the dore jesus christ , but climb into the folds some otherwaies , to wit the recommendation of great men and sometimes buying the gift of the spirit i. e. a spiritual living , yet modestly saying no thrice as the bishops when they had given a thousand pound for the place , and improvement of your interest in your patrons , and do come into spoil , steal , destroy and serve your own selves of them as well as you can , while you are with them , and so away again to make a prey of some other parishes , for verily if you can spie out any flocks that have better fleeces then other ( leaving those you lived with before to shift for themselves ) without their leave , & with the leave of such as pretend to the power of presentment , you l be their pastors whether they will or no : but if any of you be chosen for their churchmen by a poor people that want a great benefice for their cure , they must for you want the benefit of a cura●e . yea what maintenance is in this or that vacant parish , which you are harping after , is one of the main questions thats about it : yea ye minister for maintenance , ye teach for reward , ye preach fo● hire , ye divine for money , ye turn the gosspel into a meer trade , to the learning of which you put men out as apprentices about some seven years to the universities , and then allow them ( as free men therof ) to set up for themselves and get as good livings by it as they can : where you may be sure of sufficient wages , you will tell men a little of the truth , and truely t is not much of it that you know , but you care not how little you preach of that little you have to preach , where you can hope to have but little pay for your pains . wo to yee o ye national pppriesthood , t is too too eviden that you are not the shepheards of the sheep , yea you are the idol-shepheards , that leave the flock to provide for your selves , not regarding their welfare , when by s●incking away from them you can provide but a little better for your own : you are ( exceptis excipiendis ) saving some few hundreds among many thousands , hirelings ' that flee to prefer , better , secure , advance , or advantage your selves , because you are hirelings , and care not for the sheep : you are pastors that are become bruitish , you have not sought the lord , but your selves for the most part , therefore shall ye not prosper , but your sheep shall be scattered away from you ier. . yea verily you drive them from you dayly more and more , not onely by many pieces of your dry divinity but specially with your terrible doctrine of trebble damages , in which you drive so furiously upon them , that you drive them both out of your dores , and their own also : you have an evill eye of covetuousnesse , and greedinesse upon the tenth of every mans substance , and therefore you loose no time , while the law of man favours you in it , though not the man christ jesus , and spare no pains , but take , scrape , strive , streign , ride , run , rake , wrangle , weary out your selves and neighbours , and all courts and committees , in city and country to have something out of every thing , for doing worse then nothing , till you not onely trebbly endamage , but totally undo many poor mens wives and childrens bodies , and your own souls too ( except ye repent , little considering that an inheritance gotten hastily in the beginning , shall not be blessed in the end ; you devour widowes houses , and for a pretence make long prayers , and therefore will receive greater damnation ; you tith * mint and rue , and all manner of herbs , corn * , lamb , wool , milke , egges , calves , pigs , apples , peares , plums , flax , hey , hens , hops , hemp , wood , houses , cum multis aliis , quae nunc praescribere longum est , either in kind , or pecunialiter , but you passe over judgement , mercy , faith , and the weighty matters of christs law you eat the fat , and cloth your selves with the wool , and kill them that are fed , but you feed not the flock ; you even flea the very flesh from mens bones , for your un-dues , and that such men too sometimes , whom your selves are , so far from teaching , that you have need to learn of them , which be the first principles of the oracles of god : you feed your people with words , but not with the word : you strengthen not the diseased , but strengthen them in their diseases ; you strengthen the hands of the wicked , that they do not return from their wickednesse , and discourage the hearts of the righteous : you run from place to place , parish to parish , parsonage to parsonage , pretending you have christs call from this to that , when the loadstone that leads you is the love of lucre : and when you are about to leave one living for the love of another , you often dance a while between both , serving them by turns , by the halves , till the half year be expired , that you may have your half years hire from both places , and when you take your leave of the flock , which you fleec't before , then what a deal of do there is to part , and such scrape sometimes , as if it went to the hearts of you , that you must forsake them ; then there is farewell speeches , farewell sermons , farewell all at once , once for all , the lord be with you , and such like ; but the devil may take them all , and be their minister if he will for you , if you can but get christs call to a bigger living , or some more emolumentall employment : and howbeit , you parish pppastors can give your selves a dispensation from christ to run away ( for selfs sake ) when you please from your flocks , yet if any of your flocks run away from you ( for christs sake ) to other pastors , many of you take on heavily at this , saying t is a most miserable thing , that when you have converted them , and been a means of opening their eyes * , they should presently run away from your ministry : you may separate your selves it seems without sin from them , for more tith , but if they separate themselves from you for more truth , this is such a h●gh piece of schism , and iniquity in the church , as deserves to be sharpely censured by the state , at least if they abide not in all conformity to the cry of your wide mouthd coffers ? which if they do there 's so much the more content : yea let them run to what pastors they will , so they still stand paymasters to you , for what said one even what many more of you proclaim is in your minds , by your mindlesseness of ministring to men in spiritual things , any farther then they minister to you in carnal viz let them run to the devil if they will ( quoth he ) ( for so you judge they do when they run from you to god ) so they will but pay us our tithes . how justly may even england say as isaiah said of israel of old isa. . . . . his watchmen are all blind , they are dumb dogs that cannot bark , ( but bite they can bitterly if men put no into their mouthes ) sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber , greedy dogs that never have enough , all looking to their own way ; every one to his gain from his quarter . and as you can shift and flee from flock to flock , and stand in several livings one after another , & some of you in two or three together in the same creeds , catechisms , formes of worship , government &c. for your own earthly ends , and emoluments , so can you stand under severall postures , practises , creeds , catechisms , forms of worship , government in the same livings rather then lose them , when time and tide turns so strongly upon you , as to turn you out of your places , if you turn not with it . yea verily you are the most subtle , shifting , sinful , shameful , shuffling , self saviours ( some few still excepted , for those that know their innocency in this , i speak not of them , but if any mens consciences tell them , i speak of them , i speak of them indeed ) from suffering joyfully the spoiling of your goods , turning out of your houses , in the troublous turnes of times , for your professed conscience scruples , that are to be found throughout the earth : hence it is that you are generally quiet under the absence of that which you strictly pleaded for as truth , while it stood , and under the establishment of that which you stiled , and stickled against as error , till it was set up , when the remove was made by the hand of that authority , that was like to remove you out of your places if you sided not with it : you suspend the removal of known corruptions , and practise of known truths many times , unlesse the whole state will move all in a body with you , and unlesse all men may be made to march your way by canons , ordinaces and acts , yea one order for this or that from the rulers hath often given you a more clear sight of some things you seemd not to see before in an hour , then bare reason would have done in a year : from your masters to you , as well as to your servants from you stat pro ratione voluntas . hence it is that the same persons could ever serve the nations in the office of priesthood under powers never so different , never so contradictory one to other in principles , postures , practises , government , discipline , liturgies , formes , creeds , catechisms , when there was no other remedy , though till the sword decided it there was nothing , but deadly implacability , irreconcileablenesse to each others waies , maugre all that the word could do among you : witnesse the case of common prayer , which many of you saw to be a corruption , yet kept to it while t was dangerous to decline it , and till authority took it away ; what authority had to do to take it away by force from them , whose conscience , being blinded , perswaded them they ought to use it , i leave to authority to examine , yet sure i am that authority hath no authority from god , if it be a corruption , to excuse , impower or authorize any one to practise it without sin , for so much as but an hour ; and many of you , that could not see it to be any corruption at all , but rather such a thing as would pluck up all religion by the rootes , till such time as authority did remove it under that name , on pain of five and ten pounds forfeiture to them that used it , did then see it a corruption , and imbraced the directory in its stead , and did not sleep , as before , but were changed in a moment ; yea we cannot be ignorant ( for who so blind as they that cannot see what they cannot but see ) of the protaean practises of you priesthood , who since the new moulding of things here in e●gland from the depth of popish darknesse , have been the most self preserving sect as is to be seen this day in the world , keeping together catervatim in covents , counsells , classes , and as trooping , so trumpeting together for the most part in one tone according to the tempers of the princes in whose times you happened to be trained up , or have a being in , against all that as heresie which you saw the higher powers , or general assemblies of the kirk directing , and state correcting , would have so , and ( saving some few still among as well the popish , as prelatick , and presbyterian priests ( for its a hard case , if there be never a consciencious priest at rome ) that would say otherwise then you all said ) saying and unsaying , seeing and unseeing , turning and returning changing and unchanging ▪ singing a new song , and unsinging it again , agreeing to speak with one mouth like the prophets that prophecyed before ahab kin. . . who all , save one micaiah , said but one thing , and nothing still but good , good to please the king : so that whereas of old it was throughout all christendome like priest , like prince , like people ( the heart of all kingly power being hammered to the will of the whore , with whom it was enamoured , ahab being not a little overwiv'd by iezebell that stole the breeches from him while he lay in bed with her , and ran a whoring after her from the lord ) so now since the civil powers in these parts are resolved to be suprem , and to be no more such underlings , as to crouch any further then consultativè about religion to any of the three parts of the tripple crown , you the priesthood seeing all your pomp depend upon your obedience to the sic volo , sic jubeo of king henry and his successors , it hath been here like prince , like preist , like people ; me thinks i here you say , o yee time-serving , prince pleasing priesthood , tempora mutantur & nos mutamur in illis ; let us have our fees , the fleece , and let the flock feed how they will. kings , popes , or people , which ere supreme do sit , may let religion be as you think fit : we cannot but be aware , unlesse we will wink , how the body of you the priesthood have , for livings sake , like reeds in the tide leaned this way and that way , even which way soever the waters have turned , and stood under k. henry papists , under k. edward protestants , under q. mary papists , under q. elizabeth , and k. iames protestants , and though you were ever eager for that form of government and worship still that was in present being , pleading the truth of it , as if you would have lost your lives rather then left it , crying out that religion it self was taken away if that were not continued , as of old for masse , and popes supremacy , and more lately for common prayer and episcopacy , and more lately yet for a synodian supremacy , and scottish directory , yet like children crying for the losse of some gaudy hornbook , or gilded primmer , a new book , a new psalter and festraw , a new testament or will of the state streight stops your mouths , so that any form else , if it be an indifferent independency may serve the turn , specially when you judge it may cost you a whipping , if you grumble and conform not . thus whilest truly tender spirits like a few harmlesse flies are catcht in the cobwebs of mens lawes about religion , the spider creeps clear over all , and lives it out under papacy , prelacy , presbytery , under commands of king , parliament , and army , under the impositions of masse , liturgy , directory , and should a law be made ( as i desire of the powers there never may ) for conformity to the true form indeed , may as well ( for ought i know ) begin again with the baptists in the principles or a b c of christs doctrine heb. . , . and primitive practice . you professe ( you protestant priests ) to be reformers in these times , and places , and bringers back of gods people from babylon to sion , but verily you hold them back from returning so fast , and so far homeward to the truth , as some do , & more would do , were it not for you , who rather rap them in , then help them on that run faster , then your coveteous turns can afford them to do in this work of reforming by the word , yea you are the greatest hinderers and retarders that are , of that perfect reformation of all things according to the plain pattern of the word , which yet upon several occasions since protestanism came up you have protested for your selves , and also pressed , not to say ( what in you lies ) forced , all people to protest for with you . how is it else that men , when they passe but a little from you watchmen , find him who their souls love , and being first ashamed of your , and their abominations , while by implicit faith they dwelt under the shadow of your ministery , see the form , and fashion , the commings in and goings out , and even all the ordinances and the lawes of christs house , and keep and do them in some measure , and not tarrying for man , mic. . . nor waiting for the sons of men , are , if not fully reformed , yet daily reforming according to their covenant , viz. the word of god and example of the best reformed churches , viz. iudaea , rome in her first and true glory , corinth , galatia , ephesus , plilippi , colosse , thessalonica &c. yet you , even you watchmen are blind , and found beating , and abusing the spouse , for her inquiries , and sit like a company of black ravens or rooks in a mist , gaping after what way the whole body will take their flight , before any individuall , though never so clear in discovery of the right , dare once move from his standing before his fellowes : you wait one upon another sperantes omnes in singulis , singuli in omnibus for light but behold obsurity , for brightnesse but you walk in darknesse . you groap for the way like the blind , like them that have no eyes , calling out help king , help houses , help councells , help neighbour nations , help brethren of scotland , from all which because they are men ▪ and not god , flesh , and not spirit , there comes no help at all , save help to gods people against you , and such help too , that he that helpeth you shall fall , and you that are holpen shall fall down , and you shall all fall together and none deliver . you are sworn as well as we in the sight of both god and men to reform according to the word , and that word is nigh enough , even in your mother tongue , bibles , hearts and mouths , viz. the word of faith which we preach : neither is it far off you unless your shutting your eyes against it , and putting it away from you , hath engaged the lord to shut up your eyes , and put it further , so that because seeing you would not see , thereupon seeing you shall not : you have also promise enough from christ to know his will in his word if you look to him onely and to it : yet you say , who shall go up to heaven to bring christ down to us again ? who shall descend into the deep to bring christ to us from the dead ? who shall go beyond the sea for us , viz. holland , germany , &c. and bring the word unto us , that we may hear it and do it ? who shall go into scotland and brings us a directory and platform of government from them ? you swear to reform after the example of the best reformed churches , but you mean of europe , not of asia sure , not the congregations you read of in the word , but the nations you dote on in the world viz. scotland , holland , denmark , swethland , germany &c. which all qua nations ( excepting such in them as truly fear god and worship him answerably to his will ) are together with this , till they be converted to the faith by the spiritual and the civil sword , and then ( not in nonage ) baptized ( not sprinkled ) in the name of christ , with confession , and for remission of sins , and then walk in free ( not forced ) fellowship in breaking b●ead and prayers , are as far in sano sensu from the denomination of true churches , and have as much need of reforming , as our selves . indeed you talk of church , of orthodoxnes and reformation , as the thing much desired , making them the hereticks and schismaticks that side not with you : see baxt. p. . we prayed for reformation , and the progresse of the gospel , we fasted and mourned , and cryed to god , we waited and longed for it more then for any worldly possession ; indeed we overvalued it , and had too sweet thoughts of it , as if it had been our heaven , and rest , therefore t is just in god to suffer these men ( meaning the anabaptists ) to destroy our hopes , and if they root the gospel quite out of england its just in god , but yet we hope they shall be but our scourges , and that god is but teaching us the evil of their schisms &c. but sirs , what is that hoped for reformation of yours , the pure gospel you presbyters so much talk of , which those that hinder and hold not with you in , are all sentenced for schismaticks ipso facto : for my part i could never find what reformation more in ordinances , discipline , doctrine and government , you presbyterian priesthood aimd at , then establishment of the scottish faith and the removal of the bishops , and their superstitious clergy as they removed the popish before out of place , that themselves might reign as tyrannically in their steads ; the pulling down of red glass windows , and placing of white , the knocking down of fonts , and setting up basons to rantize in , the forcing the fathers to say the same at the font , that the god-fathers did in old time , the observation of your own directory instead of the old liturgy , giving the supper to none at all ( for most riged presbyters have denied that to their whole parishes this seven year ) instead of giving it promiscuously to all , levelling the maintenance of the nations ministry , so that every one may have a competency of an d per annum ; and not some all , some none as in old'n time , and a few such trivial translations , in which the gospel is no more promoted , reformation according to the primitive faith and baptism far lesse furthered , then it would be , if never a penny might more be paid to the priests that preach for hire while the world stands , such a reformation indeed you have generally overvalued , therefore its justice in god to you , and mercy to the whole land , to suffer his people to prosper in their preachings of the truth to the utter destroying of your hopes , which if they were not more after worldly possessions in many of you that settled your selves in ds per annum by the shift , then after that which is truth indeed , t will be the better for you another time , but i testifie it to the faces of you that for all your prayings , and fastings , and mournings , and cryings to god , and waitings , and longings for reformation , you are the fiercest opposers of the primitive practise under heaven . t is true you ccclergy are some more reformed then some , you differ each from other as papal , prelatick , presbyterian , facing each other a squint as the three corners in a triangle falling out , and contending bitterly with one another about your own false wayes , yet canina utentes facundia , concurring to bark altogether against the true : yea even you protestant priests , yea you presbyters , that pretend more strictly and peculiarly to the title of preachers , and presbyters of the truth , and more serious searchers after it in prayer and supplication , are together with the flat popish priests grosse hiders of the truth as it is in jesus , for the revealing of which to your selves , you seem ( and that sometimes with fasting ) earnestly to pray to god , and for the revealing of which to them in preaching you seem ( and that sometimes iure divino ) to take pay from men . you cry mightily indeed after knowledge , and lift up your voices for understanding , saying , lord direct us more and more into the way of truth , for we are blind and ignorant , and in the dark , neither know we what to do , but our eyes are to thee , give us pure ordinances , shew us the right way &c. but if in any of your publique places never so soon after your prayers the lord stirre up the spirits of any of the messengers of his churches , that go forth in power , and plainness of speech , to make offer of any question or further information , you are so far from that candor , which the rulers of the jewish synagogues used in this case act. . and from saying men and brethren if you have any word of exhortation to the people say on , that you rather rate them as dogs out of doors , with what make you here to disturb us ? we must have an order taken with you to make you hold your peace , and such like rough repulses , as ds of people know are used , by more then one of you querists after truth , and yet you tell us of running into corners , as refusing , and unwilling to be be openly examined ; and tell your people that veritas non quaerit angulos see featley p. and that we creep into houses , as if we were ashamed to come out into your publique assemblies , though we tell you ore and ore again , that as t is more for want of your leave , then our love so to do , that we do not tell the truth there before your faces , so our meetings , when in private houses , are more publique then yours , when in publique places , by how much where ere we are , and what ere we say , we submit not onely to your accesse , but your exception also , as you , though in publique , do not to ours . you professe your selves desirous to have all things come to light before all , that all things may be proved by your people , and indeed , though he that doth evil hateth the light , neither ●ometh to the light lest his deeds should be reproved , john . . . yet he that doth truth cometh to the light that his deeds might be made manifest , that they are wrought in god , yet the means and courses by which truth should be tryed , which are plain and not puzzling discourses upon the scripture , you smother by all the means and courses you can conveniently devise , as for any entire discourses of such as are contrary minded to you , though teachers of truth as t is in the word , these you cannot away with at any hand , nor permit to be used in publique before the people , while you have any powar to shut your pulpit doors upon them , you bid your people now or then prove all things , that they may find out which is good , and shun the evil , but by your good-evil will they shall hear no more then what you tell them , and chuse whether they 'l take that for truth or nothing , you bid them cut where they like , and yet you 'l be their carvers , and force them to feed upon what you offer them or fast , and welcome , for no more messes must be meddled with , though they have never such a mind to cut and try , then what is of your dressing , & that oft is no more then some sugar sopt , sententious academical , bespangled , hide bound , glasse measured , spirit stinting stuff , which may challenge the name of duncery , baldnesse , babling and prating , more then that sincere milk of the word you commonly call so , which hour of divinity when you have bookt down and cond with no little care , is many times but sed , and some●imes but red ore when all 's done neither : yet oft times you crow couragiously upon your own dunghil , you pay it soundly in your own pulpits with convincing , and opposing the approach of heresies , and argue so substantially against them that you carry the cause , and win all , but t is because you play there by your selves ; for if any chance to hear you , that hath never so much wherewith to undeceive your deluded people , yet they may not receive his interrupted reply to never so little : when you in the first place have pleaded your cause , the next thing to be done is for all them , that hear and have ought against you to hold their peace ▪ they must not andere audire alteram partem least they be infected , though wise men know there is no other way to be perfected in the knowledge of the truth , and freed from that hobnob implicit faith , which is wrongly acted , when rightly objected , then by hearing all that is to be said against it as well as for it ; yea the heathen herein may be thy tutor , o pppriest , qui statuit aliquid &c. you cry out they are not orthodox that oppose you , and so forbid all audience of them to your people , whom you feed with a word and a blow , a bit and a knock , lest if they be not as well corrected into a refusal of all direction from others , as directed by your selues , they quickly discern difference between you and them : yet you would fain be counted free and forward , that all should have liberty according to their duty to try all but the niggard shall never be called liberall , nor the churl said to be bountiful for me , for he deviseth not the liberal things , whereby the liberal shall stand , yea the instruments of the churl are evil , and he deviseth wicked devices , to destry the poor with lying words , when the needy spoaketh right things : yea his heart works iniquity , to practise hypocrisie , and to utter error befor the lord , to make empty the soul of the hungry , and to cause the drink of the thirsty to fail , isa. . . . . . as for pro and con discourse , or disputation , you smother that likewise with all your might , for as you desire no more of it then needs must , so you decline it what you can , and disclaim it too , as far as you dare for shame be seen in such a service as disputing against disputing is , declaiming against it as a dismal thing of some dangerous consequence , poison , means of infection , contentionem , scabiem and such like : being sensible of your sores you come not to the stake to be questioned in your waies before your blind admirers , but when you cannot with credit ( considering your over shooting your selves sometimes in hasty challenges ) make a cleanly come off without it , though it be to meet with those that are inferiour to your selves , save that the lord is with them ; for surely you see somewhat further then a mole into a milstone , that things are no better with you then they should be , why else should there be such loathnesse ( like that of the elephant , that 's loath to drink in fair waters for fear of seeing a foul face ) to come to the light , as we find there is in the most of you , as well as in dr. gouge , who would at no hand vouchsafe any publique discussion of in●ant-sprinkling , whether it were of god or man nec per se , ne per synodum , in his parish with dr. chamberlain : yet sometimes euphoniae gratia for reports sake you make some pretty put offs in publike , and put on tooth and nail for disputation , but alas you curtail it into so narrow a compasse , as namely half a day , two hours , or some odd end of an after-noon , when two dayes is too little , two weeks scarce enough , two years not too much to discusse the truth in ; witnesse not onely iude , who bids the saints of the last times ( saving tertullian , and sir henry wottons dislike out ) contend for the faith once delivered to the saints , and paul , who for years space disputed dayly in the school of one tyrannus ( not such a tyrant to the truth as you are , it seems , for if he had he would have admitted not a word out ) you confine it i say into such a corner of time , that as pilate askt what 's truth ? and , when he had so said , went his way without an answer , so you hast to have an end , not hearing half the half quarter that is to be said , in opposition to your own opinions about that question : and during that little while the busines lasts , you carry all as much as you can above the reach , and beyond the capacity of plain minded men and women that come together for resolution , in scholastick terms , and conclave it from their cognizance under the lock and key of your linsey wolsey logick , which is neither fine enough for the university , from which you have a while discontinued , nor home-spun enough for the country ; which muddy way of mood and figure , is neither suitable to the simplicity and plainess of speech in which the gospel ought to be declared , and discussed , nor reasonable to reason in with russet rabbies , that are otherwise reasonable enough to give you such reasons of their faith and practise , as you can never rationally resist ; nor is it much more profitable to our honest hearted people then if you spake wilde irish. and when you have done then you smother and cloud over all , that was more plainly and punctually answered , and uttered to you on truths behalf , in some true counterfeit account or other , in many , if not most of which waies this ashford dispute , as i have already shewed before , both was , and was designed to be smothered . thus like the fish caepia , when you are like to be catcht with playing too neer the mouth of plain truth , you cast a flood of ink behind you , and darken all that 's done , and like the lizard , making good prints with your feet , putting on as fair pretences as may be , of willingnesse to try , and have all things seen as they are , upon the forepart of your work , and then dashing all out with your tail , and blurring all ore again with with some after and hinder part practises , whereby to hinder the truth still from taking place in the spirits of the people . as your fathers have done before you for ages and generations together , so do your selves in this point , & more too not a few , their delight was to hide their counsels , and to do their works in the dark , that they might say who seeth and who knoweth us ? yea the whole creation of you out of the chaos of romes catholicon , have been a very race of smotherers , that have cryed down truth as heresie , saints as schismaticks , their tendernesse as stubbornnesse , their serviceablenesse to christ as selfishnesse , seperation from your superstitions , and corrupt communions , as sectarism , singularity ; perseverance in christs way , without turning back to the flesh pots of aegypt , as obstinacy and will fulnesse , church meetings as conventicles , church messengers , who are christs true ministers to the world even to the end of it , approving themselves as so , ( as few of you do ) in much patience , in tumults &c. reducing men to primitive purenes of faith , fellowship , worship , baptism , supper , life , as fools , bedlams , juglers , seducers , seditious , tumultuous , deservedly round and rough reprovings of you who , are more then any men hardened in your abominations , as elias , iohn , christ and others did them that were like you , disgracing , railing , reviling , the one and onely true baptism as anabaptism , basenesse , enthusiasm , scripture searching by the laity , the onely way of christs own appointment for all men to come to acquaintance with him by , as medling more then needs , scripture opening by the illiterate weaver , taylor , shoomaker , souldier , upon whom the spirit , that onely makes a preacher , may as soon blow as upon a schollar , a means to multiply errors . and thus what you popish would smother in an unknown tongue , you english p priesthood , who deliver it from that , would more subtilly smother in a known , whilest how far soever men see into the word , yet they must see and say nothing , or presume to see no farther , nor practise any faster than the priest. yea to shew how little you degenerate from him , you even fill up the measure of your father the pope , that wrath may come upon you all to the utmost , whilst in these last breakings forth of light from all that smother , wherewith synodicall constitution hath overcast it , even since your own seperation from rome , you damn it all by whole sale for darknesse ; ye are therefore of your father abadd●n , and the works of that father of yours ye do , he was a smotherer from his beginning , and neither could abide in , nor can yet abide the truth , because there is no truth in him , he opened the bottomelesse pit , and raised up such a smoak of traditions , ceremonies , canons , calumnies , lyes , nicknames , misrepresentations of things to the world , as the smoak of a great furnace , to the darkning of the sun and the air , when he speaks a ly , he speaks of his own , for he is a lyar , and next to the devill the father of it , when he smothers that which should come to light , he acts most like himself , for he is a smotherer also , and the father of that practise . wherefore also as he loved that curse , even darknesse , drynesse , and smother so it is come unto him and his ccclergy , as he delighted not in the blessing of light , so it is far from him , as he cloathed himself , and his with smoak , and smother like as with a garment so it is come into his very bowells , and like oile into his bones , it must be to him as the garment that covereth him , and for a girdle wherewith he must be girded ; this is the reward of that adversary from the lord , and of all that speak evil with him against the truth . thus god hath left you in his just severity to wander in by waies , and to be lost in the laborinth of your learned legends , till you be all moped , and snared even in the works of your own hands , and smothered to blindnesse by your own smoak , because when you should have fathered and mothered the gospel , so as to have brought it out in its primitive , native , beauty , and brightnesse , you ccclergy men have been the generation in all ages of your raign , that have murdered and smothered it in the world . and instead of patronizing the truth , and its professors and promoters you have belyed , blasphemed both by the termes of heresie , hereticks , and worse ; witnesse featly specially , who from a few feats of some few mad men , or rather monsters of munster , and other places ( hapily like to our english mad braind ranters , whose rudenesse is in reason no reproach to us , sith the way of baptism , and church-membership we walk in ( which these either never owned or abode not in ) allowes not , but is more at odds with open wickedness , then any other waies whatever ) who i say from some particular pranks of one iohn of leyden and his compeares , that is no more kin to us , then one ioan of lin is to the whole ccclergy , denominates all the baptists , whom he yoaks together with them under the nick-name anabaptists , an impure and carnall sect , a cruell and bloody sect , a prophane and sacrilegious sect , a lying and blasphemous sect , an illiterate and sottish sect , all how truly it agrees to those men of munster and their chieftan iohn of leyden , it matters not , but i am sure as much as you wipe your mouths and shift it of from your selves to the people of god that walk in the truth of the gospel , yet there 's no generation of men upon earth whom it all laies more claim to then the pppreisthood of the nations . for first though you stile your selves the spirituality , and holy men of god , you are a race of men ( exceptis excipiendis , still setting a side those few , even all such whose consciences do not check them of too little chastity ) more corporally carnall then every body knowes on : yea saving the holinesse that you have in a black box , derived from his holinesse the pope , whose holiness all your holiness of that kind hangs on , and from the date of which the name of spiritualty also i spilt upon you throughout christendome , from him who thinks he hath , by a promise to peter , the fatherhood of the clergy , as much as abraham the fatherhood of the faithful , i believe it is not for nothing , nor without special respect , as well to the corporal , as spiritual whoredomes and filthynesse residing within your skirts that the great cccity bbbabylon that raigneth over the kings of the earth , or wwwoman sitting upon the beast , or many waters , i. e. tongues , nations , people of christendome in three ppparts , is stiled the great wwwhore , and mother of harlots , and sssodome , also as well as aeaeaegypt : neither doth shee onely seduce christs people to commit fornication , and eat things sacrificed to idols , i. e. to run a whoring in worship , and do things that way abominable unto god , but she is an adulteresse , in respect of her fleshly whoredomes also : as for the old brothel or italian ioan , i. e. the popes cardinals , and the catholick clergy that still retain their integrity to their lord god the pope , from whom you younger brethren the p protestant clergy are rent in twaine , retaining yet that cle●gyship and baptism , which you had from them , she is so base all over from top to toe , having no sound part , that you two that have no other spiritual being ( as to your holy orders ) but what you have from her , do cry out of her your selves for a whore in grain , as well you may , when , if we search the series of the holy chairmen , spec. rom. pontifi . p. . to . thirteen were adulterers , three common brothellers , four incestuous whoremongers , eleven impoisond with vile sodomy , seven erectors of brothell houses , whereof every iillian was to pay weekly a iulian ( or rather a iillian ) penny to the pope , which came oft to four thousand ducats per annum , one an arrant whore her self , viz. pope ioan , alias gilberta an english woman born at lyn , who being two years and a half pope , at last dyed in childbed openly in the high-street of rome , going on publick procession by the way to the church of st. iohn de lateran so discovering her filthynesse ; in memory whereof they go not in procession that way where this most holy father-mother dyed , but round about another way . besides how chast the other priests are of this italian sea , their laws , privily permitting them to have concubines , but not wives do declare * , by the indulgence of which law very likely it was that one of the popes legates here in england , iohn cremernsis by name , when he had disputed all day at london for the chastity of priests ad ravim et sudorem , was found that very night in bed with a whore : and how pure the nuns and friars kept themselves from butchery and bawdery , the innumerable skuls of infants , that have bin found in moted abbies since the demolishing of them here in england sufficiently testifie : so that unlesse the ranter rant it higher when he comes to the height of his spiritual sensuality , whose lascivious wayes many will follow and fall off to from the true churches of the baptists , maugre all means to hold them in , yet the churches themselves ( to which therefore t is not to be imputed ) are modesty in the abstract to that publick pandor : as for you two mystical mistresses the pprotestant ppriests , who tumbled both together in the belly of that old bawd or mystery babilon , and made one with her , till her time came to break in pppieces , and are yet scarce wholly weaned from her breasts ; t is true you are far more modest then she , for you neither permit stews , nor prohibit marriage of one , as they do , that they may be free to more , nor set rates upon venery as she doth , neither are so bad by as many degrees , as you are younger in years ; yet are you so bad that way that neither all the white surplices , nor black superflu●tyes you use to cover your nakednesse with , will either cleanse your consciences from the guilt , or your reputation from the stain of carnal impurity , so that it may be said of you as of israels priesthood of old , zeph , . . her prophets are light and treacherous persons : indeed you desire to walk in long robes , and therefore made provision in one canon that every priest must wear a long gown , or canonical coat , unlesse he were one that was unable to go to the price ▪ on t , & then your wisdoms enacted ( but necessity needs no law ) a law of liberty to wear a short one , well knowing that , as short as the curates coat was , it would be long enough ere his silken non-resident rabbi would allow him mony to buy a longer , yea you make broad shewes in garments distinct from the vulgar , & all laicks , as if you were the onely men that did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or keep the law , yea you love the uppermost rooms at feas●s , and chiefest places in the synagogues , and to be called of men rabbi , and therefore got a certain impropriation of the black garb to your selves , that you might be known from russet rabbies , and reverenced above them , as men of god , spirituall men , holy fathers , when yet such hath been the rioting and drunkenness , chambring and wantonesse , as well as strife and envying of the most part of you painted sepulchres , that few of you have been either pure , or holy , or sober , or spiritual , or godly minded men indeed , as doth appear to all , by the several centuries of censured clergy men , since this parliament , put out at one place , and popt i● at another , few of which could be much capable of divine irradiations , having such impure minds , and unchast bodies , for the pure in heart onely can see gods face mat. . heb. . and yet how bad you are , if all were known , as much as some then was , neither do i know , nor yet they , who began to cleanse the augaean stable here in england , but this i may safely say , that if ejection be the due of such , and if every spiritual man that is a carnal , luxurious wanton had his due too , s of the present priesthood might go whistle for their tithes , and their people go sing for so fair a way , as would thereby be made , toward their having the truth taught them , as it is in jesus , for little , or nothing but acceptance from the mess●ngers of the churches . secondly , as for cruelty and blood , dr. feat . himself more calls , then clears the anabaptists to be guilty in that kind ; for he brings nothing in proof on t , but a tale or two of a tub with the bottom out , viz. of of them in suevia and franconia , that at their first rising kil'd all the nobles and gentry there , that made head against them * ; also of one brother that killed another , and of one iohn matthias that for an abuse caused a man to be condemned to death , and then executed him , and of one iohn a leyden that accused a man of high treason , and cut off his head , and at another time one of his wives heads , these are his most remarkable observations of the bloodiness of the anabaptists , for if he could have brought more , or more clear you should undoubtedly have had them . by these few instances ( quoth he ) as it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fimbria de textu by the list and selvedg you may judge how deeply the cloth is died in blood : but alas what 's all this to a sight of the cloth it self ? what a small shew of blood is here to that of the wwwoman , which iohn saw , and he is blind that sees not now sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast , araid her self also in scarlet i. e. died red , red to drunkeness with the blood of the saints , and the blood of the martyrs of iesus , spiritually called bbbabilon and egypt for cruelty to gods israel , raigning in wrath and rigor in three ppparts or tyrannical formes of governmet ore kings & people , deceiving all nations to drink so deep of the wine of the wrath of the her fornications , as to be drunk with wrath against the saints , and in their drunkeness , at hhher will to push and gore them with ten horns , to execute cruelty on them for truths sake , and try them to the tyring of themselves with cruel mockings , scourgings , bonds , imprisonments , stonings , sawings , burnings , hangings , headings , and with such geer as feat . himself ( as if by his own pen he would prove the pppriesthood , and their people to be men of blood ) confesses that the anti-baptists have inflicted upon the anabaptists p . , . and for which they had no warrant from christ , viz. drowning , racking , fleaing , stabbing , tearing with hot pincers , and ( to use his own phrase ) the severest punishments they could devise ? and finally in which wwwoman is found the blood not only of persecution , of martyrs , and prophets , but of war also , and of all them that are slain upon earth ; for all this verily will be seen at last to ly hid in her scholastick skirts , rev. . . as for the pope and his clergy ( fas est vel ab hoste doceri ) both by featley , and others t is asserted , and that truly , that the devil by him and his adherents , hath acted such bloody persecutions against the true servants of god , and maintainers of the orthodox faith , as together with such other exploits of satan , and his agents as he there names , hath been the ruine of millions of men : all which is very true of them , yet not onely the italian seminaries , but our brittish seminaries also have been such stirrers up of strife between and within these nations about worships , governments , covenants for the same form , and faith , to the shedding of the blood of thousands in war , and such sowers , cum sanguine martyrum , semine ecclesiae , that though i know the wrath of the ccclergy hath wrought his praise and his peoples peace , so far that he will restrain the remainder thereof , yet i can more bewail then either you avoid ; or i avert , that blood which the lord , that is righteous in judging thus , will give you to drink , except you repent of your cruelty to consciences , and to the carcasses of men for their conscience sakes , and your pittilesse inexorablenesse towards others in the self same cases , wherein you cryed quarter your selves : for you cryed out for liberty still when you were under the tyrannicall domination one over anothers faith ; the bishops when they groaned under the pope , and the presbyters , when under the prelates , but when you crept out of the captivating clutohes , and got quit from the clerical cruelty of each other , you curb'd the poor people still , and chaltered them up sub paena to your own new found postures , and impenitent purses , as mercilessly almost as before , and have lent them but little better liberty then the horse hath , when his loadsome log is taken off his leg , that he may be rid to a jade another way : for what great difference between rome and canterbury , save that of old our pope lived further off us , and of late we were bejaded with one neerer home ? includamus hunc in orbe nostro tanquam alterius orbis papam saies pope vrban the second of anselmus arch-bishop of canterbury . when he set him at his right foot in a generall councell , i. e. we must count upon him in our world , as it were some distinct pope of another world , and so it fell out to be too at last : a pope is but a pope at one place , and so he is as well at another , and what amendment of the matter to have one man that lorded it , and pater nosterd over the faith , and conscience of gods people removed , and classes or assemblies of them stablished in his stead ? yet thus , for ought i see , it should have been , if the trojane horse of the scotch presbytery had taken place here , which men were mad , being betwatled by subtle sinons synodicall pretences to hale in , till some more wise amd quick of hearing then the rest , heard a noise of arms more then arguments clang in the belly of it , and so not believing it to be such a donum divinum , such a ius divinum as was pretended , but a thing that stood iure hominico , daemonico rather then dominico , could never since be charmd by any sinonical or sinodical solicitation whatsoever to admit it into english borders . blessed be god that curst creatures begin now to have short horns ; that the trebble terrible one , the trebble tttribe is brought so low , that those that would have made a man an offender for a word , yea for the word spoken against their word , and laid a snare for such as reproved them in the gate , and turned aside the just for a thing of nought , and were barbarously , bitterly , bloodily bent against the poor among men , that rejoice in the holy one of israel , are disappointed , else we should have seen ( it seems by featley and gangraena ) that not onely pope boniface * and b●shop bonner , but the bonny bishops of the two latter broods p and p are imbrued also not a little with the blood of christ , whom they crucify throw the sides of his saints , for sectarizing after him from themselves : witnesse their bloody tenet of persecution by prisons , fines , confiscations , banishments , &c. for cause of conscience ; witnesse their constant crying out to pilate , i. e. the governours and pilots of such states , where christ would but live quietly beside them in his poor disciples , away with him , away with him crucify him , yea though the governour strive with the chief priests , as pilate did , to rescue him , as finding no fault in him ; but though they wash themselves with nitre , and take them much sope , yet this iniquity , into which smectimnuus degenerated , since groanes for liberty of conscience came out of his own mouth , is marked before me saith the lord : yea had you been sprinkled with holy water it self , yet except you repent , and be baptized every one of you , in the name of the lord jesus for remission of sins through his blood , which so doing saves even them that shed it , you are not onely by eating and drinking unworthily , i. e. disorderly at the supper , which baptism must precede in gospel reformation , but also by your cruelty to his disciples , whom you would have crusht if you could tell how , become guilty of the body and blood of the lord , however repent , or repent not , this i say unto you from the lord , that your bloody principle of persecution for conscience , and forced conformity to your foolish forms , canons , creeds , chatechisms , dictates , directories , shall utterly perish from off the ear h. i wish the independents for their turn 's next look to it in time , and take heed of turning aside too much from that precious principle of depending upon no king , but christ , in conscience cases , neither state councells , nor church councells , nor classes , save onely for conscience to christ to be subject freely in all meer civill cases , to the one , and for cognizance sake to consult in meer church and conscience cases , with the other , and whom else they please , keeping church and state as distinct as t is possible , which the ccclergy have confounded so together , that we have lost the true peculiarities of either , and , as not suffering such sawcy doings , as to have most general assemblies of the kirk quâ church assemblies , to be tampering at all with state affairs , so not troubling any officers of state , qua state officers , no not the highest , nor committees nor sheriffs to wearinesse with representations of things pertaing purely to churches , and church orderes , expecting no more then a passive , permissive influence from them to the church-ward , i. e. to let all churches , and all religions , jewes themselves alone to their light , till they see the true one , so be they live faithfully under them , and quietly , peaceably , and civilly one by another : but me thinks i smell a mixt mongrel independency too much on foot and creeping on , an indepency by the halves , a presbyterian independency , independency too dependant in church work , upon the state for state pay , enquiring after parish maintenance , telling some truth , and taking as much tith as they can lay their hands on , lending liberty to themselves to have no supper in the parishes , when they please , yet resolving to make the people pay for it so long as they preach , whether they eat a bit of it at all yea or no : a thing i cannot well tell what to call it that has a smack too much of smectimnuus , and yet t is not so tyrannical neither , nor yet so tender towards a toleration of all consciences and religions , though of all tender conscienced christians , as that the poor jew or natural israelite can have any room or creep hole by it into the common-wealth ; in order to his conversion he must keep out , unlesse he be so converted before he come , as to resolve heel own christ , and not speak against him , as not the christ , which what power in any state under heaven can banish a jew out of any nation for doing , i plainly know not ; an independency that is willing to let israel go , but not to let another is●ael come into the land , so as to promulgate his principle which i'm sure is contrary to the principles of christian religion ; or if the jew may deny christ , and yet live in the world in quiet , why not another , unlesse the word can gain him to the belief of it , as well as he ? independents a word or two with you by the way ; no hurt i hope if you will have but patience , i find proposals presented feb. . . that make me amaz●d to think that they should come from independents , for i took independents till of late to be genuine independents indeed , but i see there 's nothing , but may have something like it , which is not the same , and such is your semi-demiindependency to me . for supply of all parishes in england with orthodox ministers , it s propounded that the sheriff of each county give account to the committee what parish hath no minister , ●hat maintenance each such parish hath , what ministers that reside in each county have no livings , and such of them as are orthodox be placed there , as the ●ommittee shall think sit . for settling right constituted churches , that all churches that are or shall be gathered , signifie to the committee of the vniversities or elsewhere , whom they have or shall choose for their pastors , and that such and such onely shall be declared right constituted churches , whose pastor shall be approved by the committee to be able , godly and orthodox . fye ! fye ! sirs that you will still have such a minglement of sheriffs , committees , ministers , churches , in a kind of omnigatherum about the gospell , and your churchwork : and that you will trouble the sheriffs to find what pay is in parishes , what parishes want ministers , and what ministers lack means ; if your ministers lack meanes cannot they look aft●r it themselves , and bestow themselves in some honest calling or other to get a living out on ? or if they cannot , cannot your churches see to them a little what they lack ? or do you lack to have the tithes and parish pay turned ore to you now , as the presbyters gaped after augmentations from the b●shops , deans , and chapters lands ? if you do , i hope the state will save your longing as they did theirs , and take them sheer away root , and branch , and let those churches , that have ministers , maintain them if they need , and let the gospel be preached freely by messengers from churches to the gentiles , to the world , without charging them with it till converted to it , for such you suppose the nation to be now , as well as we , and not a church of christ , why else do you gather churches of christ out of it ? will you gather churches of christ out of churches of christ what rule have you for that ? surely churches must be gathered out of the world : and if so that the nation be no true constituted church of christ , it s no true church of christ ( for christ hath no falsely constituted true churches that i know of ) and so her ministers no true ministers of christ ( for christs ministers are not ministers of no church ) but such as came remotely , as to their ordination and parish posture , baptism and all , from the pope , whom if you also look upon with such favourable construction as to own him , and his ordinations , and his baptism and administrations , and what the prelate and presbyter sucks in a way of succession from thence as apostolical , so as to stand ministers and baptized by it , i shall think the world goes round then indeed , and that whoever chances to get on horseback , and sit in the saddle here in england , whether prelate , presbyter or independent they cannot chuse , for customes sake , but face about still , and ride back at least a little way toward rome : or do you hold ( as some presbyters do ) your ordination o independents from the magistrate ? if so he was ordained a minister of god in other cases , but neither per se nor per alios to ordain and authorize ministers for christ churches : yet me thinks i sent you comming somewhat neer that , when you propose onely that such shall be declared right constituted churches , whose pastor shall be approved by the committee to be able , godly and orthodox , which independent proposition i hardly know what to make of it is so odd : what sits does the denomination of a right constituted church depend upon the pastors being approved to be able , godly and orthodox ? a right constituted church is that which is built upon the foundation or principles of the word of christ , and the apostles , heb. . , . ephes. . some of which you independents yet want ( but go on in your light for me , till you see it darknesse , i can speak but obiter to you here , yet know that if you settle not upon all the foundation even your church will be a come down castle too ere long ) a right constituted church is that which hath right matter viz. baptized professors , right ●orm , i. e. free fellowship of such together in one body in breaking of bread and prayers , whether they have yet a pastor over them yea or no , for the churches were rightly constituted first , and had elders after ordained among them as they were found gifted : yet with you the church that hath no pastor , and he not approved orthodox , is yet not to be declared a right constituted church : what if the pastor prove het●rodox does the church loose its true constitution ? or i would i knew what you mean by constitution ? for perhaps i do not : and why do you talk in singulari so much of the pastor , and pastor of a church , as if you were of the mind that a church might have no more pastors and overseers over it but one , whereas t is most evident that there may be more elders , pastors , overseers ( these are all one , pet. . . ) in one church , and that not without need neither when that one flock or congregation grows numerous , for then they oft grow out of the observation too much of one eye : see act. . paul sent for the elders of the church of ephesus : whether any church ever had but one pastor or overseer in it or no ( if any at all ) i know not , but i am sure the use was to ordain more then one to one church , act. . . tit. . . but one cannot lord it so well , if others be i th traces with him but however why must all this business of declaring which be right constituted churches , orthodox pastors , which not , hang upon the committees approving , or not approving of the pastors ? what if the committee should chance to be heterodox it self ? or the major part of it ? or the major part sitting at that time , when this pastor comes for approbation , what shall a true constituted church lose or keep her name of a true constituted church at a venture upon the vote of a committee ? and what need at all that the committees be so cumbered with the care of such affairs ? and what vanity to venture the determination of which be true churches of christ , which the scripture declares plain enough , whether the committee see it yea or no , upon the verdit of a committee , to whom other affairs are most properly committed ? let all the churches come before the committee , and all people declare their ways , and their god , and he whom the committee saies is god , let him be god , and not the rest ; will you have it so ? if you will , i will not , take truth upon trust from the vote of any committee man under the sun : and if you would not have it so , you were better never trouble committees with such matters at all , then not commit them finally to them so as to agree to act at a venture as they determine in matters meerly of religion , and that the true churches of christ , who know no king but jesus in church and conscience , will never do , but prove themselves to be true constituted churches of christ , and preach the gospell too as it is in iesus , where ere they see people ignorant of it , whether they will hear or forbear , though all the committees , yea and all the kings , and popes , and priests , and people in the world should declare against them . beloved friends me thinks you look too like a national ministry to be of the right stamp yet : i had hoped independents would never have turned state ministers , and have lookt so much after state honour , state help , state approbation , state preferment , state maintenance , for ministering to either their churches , or to the purblind nation , as i see they do : but sirs if you be true constituted churches of christ indeed ( i do not say you are , nor is it my businesse here to prove you are not , though you are not , till you own his baptism ) but if you be , as you imagine you are , know that christ hath set in his church apostles , or messengers to be sent forth not by the state , but by the church it self , to preach his gospel to the world , at the churches , and not the worlds charges , and to preach the gospel to the parishes , without pilling the poor parish people & making way for the gosp●l , and the truth by force and law , whether they be free to have it , to buy a●d receive it on such terms as you tender it on yea or no : therefore send forth and maintain your messengers among your selves ( you are rich enough ) and let them preach the gospel to them , & gather churches ; but alas now i think on t , how can they preach the gospel by the halves , and gather true constituted churches , that yet own not ( as ye o independents yet do not ) all the principles of the oracles of god , nor all the first doctrines of christ as that of baptisms , & laying on of hands , upon which together with the rest the true visible church stands as on her foundation : and are yet not onely unbaptized , but unwilling to be baptized , or to baptize with any other baptism then that rantism that ran down hither through rome ? you propound that when any of the pastors of right constituted churches dye or leave them to take up some other imployment , they choose and present another pastor within six moneths , and may have one settled among them within moneths , by approbation from the said committe , or to dissolve or disperse themselves into other churches . good sirs , what mean you by this ? shall the parliament and their committees never have their liberty to attend onely , and perfectly the true liberties of the subject ? nor be at quiet from this wearisome work of approving , and setling of ministers , that are men mostly so unsetled in their minds that they 'l never ( if they have such liberty to leave , as you here allow them ) settle longer in one place , then till they have more means , or be more to their minds in another ? had this piece been propounded by parish ministers and people it had become them , as sounding somewhat sutable to their posture and principle , for t is the usual tone they talk in , when one pastor having left them , to take up another call from christ , or imployment somewhere else to his advantage , they addresse to the committee for the approbation or settlement of such or such a godly orthodox divine among them , as they have agreed with ( if they can get the committees good will , for till then all parties are not agreed it seems among either you or them ) to be their minister : but to see them , whom i suppose to be independents ( for i am sure they are independent men that propose the next parcel viz. thomas goodwin , nye simpson whose propositions these approve of ) to see i say independents flocks depend , it may be half a year , on committees to have their pastors approved on , and settled by the committees among them me thinks is something shameful : i reckoned that the independent churches had reckoned themselves to have had the sole power not onely of choosing , and presenting , but of approving , settling and ordaining their own pastors among themselves ( but i see i am deceived ) and why may not the church onely without the committee approve of her own ministers , to be orthodox , and be able to minister in their assemblies and meetings , as well as to approve of such of her members to be orthodox , and allow them to speak as she shall judge fit to speak , for in the next proposal but one or two , it appears you judge she ( without the committee ) may approve of such . and what mean you by your pastors leaving you to take up some other call or imployment ? are your pastors also such idol shepheards , as it may be supposed now and then will leave their flocks for any other imployment ? what imployment may they lawfully leave their flocks for , with whom they are in fellowship so as to stand pastors no more among them ? is their any worldly imployment to which the pastors office must give way so to as to cease for its sake , when it comes in place ? i know but one employment in honour , and excellency beyond that good work of a bishop , or overseer among his flock , as namely that of apostleship , or messengership from the church , to convert the world , if it be that you mean , i le have you excused , in choosing you other pastors to oversee you in the lord , in your messengers absence from you to preach to the world , but other imployment i know none more honourable then the ministership , for which its worthy to be left by them that have food and raiment in it : neither count i it perferment , but degeneracy for a minister to be removed from his ministership , and servantship in feeding the sheep of christ , over which the holy spirit makes him overseer , though it be to a lordship , a mastership , a presidentship , a deanship ore a colledg , whether that colledge be christs church also , yea or no ; specially if that fl●ck he leaves be left so destitute of another pastor , that it must wait perhaps moneths for another , and at last , if at long running they cannot have one , must be fain to flee all to pieces , and dissolve their church and disperse themselves up and down to other churches . smite the shepheard with some better employment , and then all his sheep that were gathered may be scattered , and separate themselves together into severall places : i like this but a little , and am confident christ jesus likes it lesse : if you can follow any manual imployment for your livings , as paul and others did , and preach the gospel too to make it as much as may be without charge , i like it well but i am jealous you 'l make a trade too much of the gospel too . you propound that none presume under a penalty to speak in any assemblies , or meetings but ministers of the word , members of churches approved , except meetings purposely for disputing , and that where meetings be kept up likewise , persons speak there that have commission from some right constituted church , or certificate from two or more able , godly , orthodox ministers , of their sufficiency to speak , and soundnesse in the faith , except masters to their families , schoolmasters to their schollars , or others to such , as by their callings fall under their government or charge . then at least civil magistrates may speak any where within their verge , without certificate of their sufficiency so to do , to the people , that by reason of their call fall under their government and charge , but others may not , though the spirit moves them , unlesse they can obtain a certificate from some ministers . sirs , what mean you to muzzle men up in this manner under penalties , from opening their mouths to speak , unlesse they bring testimonials , and certificates from men ? if any man speak from god , god will give testimony to him by assisting him to speak honestly at least , though weakly and plainly ; if god do not testifie to any man that speaks , so but that the hearers judge him insufficient , or that he speaks weakly , and sillily , and see that god leaves him to utter error , they may leave him too if they please , if it be free for men ( as it never was under the priesthood ) to refuse what they find not to be truth ; and as they like it not to let it alone : them therefore that are weak in the faith receive , and entertain , though they have no pastport or orders from men to shew , you may sometimes entertain angels unawares : and what if god stop that mans mouth ( as he may do when he pleases ( the spirit blowing where it lists ) who has mans testimony of sufficiency , & from whom ther 's the greatest expectation , and does somtimes when men dote on men , yea and opens the mouths of them , that at other times , it may be sate as dumb , asses ) to reprove the madnesse of very prophets ? t is propounded by mr. owen , mr. thomas goodwin , mr. nye mr. sympson , that such as do not receive , but oppose those principles of christian religion , without the acknowledgement whereof the scriptures do clearly and plainly affirm that salvation is to be obtained , may not be suffered to preach or promulgate any thing in opposition unto such principles : but in this verily i am not satisfied at any hand , for not to acknowledge iesus christ to be the christ , but to deny him to be the son of god , when he is plainly preached is not to receive , but oppose those principles of christian religion , the non-acknowledgement of which , where christ at least is made known , is utterly inconsistent with salvation ; yet thus did the iews when christ in person was among them , contradicting , blaspheming him , as also the samaritans did not receive him , yet the civil powers of the world had no power from christ to curb them , and not suffer them to say what they would against christ simply and solely i say because of that : neither find i ( as before ) any warrant in the word for caesar the civil powers of the world to prohibit , or sub paena any false religions , from standing , growing , preaching , promulgating , practising their own principles , be they jews , or heathen romans , or dianitish ephesians , in their several dominions under the gospel any more then to prohibit the true christian religion it self : all religions lived under caesar in christs and the apostles dayes , and were not by him persecuted , nor constrained , either to be of his religion , nor to say nothing against it , nor against any other : in after times indeed when the emperours grew bloody against the christians , all religions lived quietly under caesar , but the christian ; that was worse then nought , and i think it not a little too bad , and not doing ( as our duty is ) to all men as we desire they should do to us , but the way back to priestly blindnes , if we put caesar on now , because he is a christian , to let the christian religion live quietly under him , and none else : for my part i dare not desire that the jews may not , not onely live , but till , they see better , serve , god in their wayes of worship in the state as well as others , for a being they must have somewhere , and may no where without sin , if not here , for is it more sin for one common-wealth to let false worshippers live in it , till they see the truth , then for another ? yea and let them and others too preach and promulgate even all that ere they can for their way . ob. i know men fear false religions will seduce men from the true to themselves . an. let them gain what they can , whom can they gain ? not the elect , which in your sense are a sort of individuals , without respect to any thing done in time , personally , unchangeably positively , and not conditionally determined to faith and final perseverance in it to the death , and if they seduce others to damnation it self , they are no other then such with you as are as particularly , peremptorily , and not conditionally onely of their loving darkness more then light , afore of old ordained to that condemnation , therfore me thinks you of that principle of all others , should see no danger of doing more hurt , then god decreed to have done , by suffering seducers in the world before the foundation of it , and as for us who hold no such , though as much election and reprobation as your selves in that sense in which the scripture speaks o●t , which bids us know that god hath chosen the godly man to himself , and ordained ungodly men to condemnation , not determining the individuals to life or death before birth , but upon account of belief or non-belief of the truth that 's told them , for he hath chosen men to life no otherwise then through belief , and ordained men to be holy , i. e. that they shall believe and live holily that mean to live for ever , even we that know there is danger enough , and yet hope enough too of life for men , that neglect not their own salvation , ●are venture truth among all false wayes whatsoever , which when and where ere it lives uncurbd as it never yet did in england without molestation more or lesse , to these our dayes for a years and upwards , will shine through all the rest so clearly to mens souls , as either to save them , or else at least to convince them so as if they perish by following any false wayes , that grow up by it , to leave them without excuse , because they either did , know , and did not what they knew , or might have known more then they did but would not : besides if any religion be ( as i am sure the true one is not , though the rrromish , jewish , turkish , and all others are ) such a dead sea of divinity , as hath not life enough in it to live of it self , if it may have bare leave unlesse all others that would live beside it be sneapt by the civil sword , so that they must not shew their heads by it for its sake , let that religion be the jews , and the turks , and the popes , and the prelates , and the presbyters , and the independents , too , if it will , for me , but while i live to christ , surely t will be none of mine . so i have done with you my dear friends of the independent way , and shall wait and pray that you may first laying , as your foundation , & then leaving , the principles of the doctrine of christ , go on unto perfection . t is time to return to talk on with the pope and pppriesthood , to whom i have almost forgotten what more i was about to say , being put by it by ones presentment of these proposals to me inter scribendum , which draw'd me on to this long perenthesis , and off from my present purpose viz. the proving of the pppriesthood to be that themselves which they most falsely father upon them , whom they as falsely call anabaptists : i have shewed how though they call us an impure and carnal sect , a cruel and bloody sect , yet themselves are both these much more then we , yea and much more that 's nought then either of these two also . for next whereas you stile us a prophane and sacriledgious sect , yet that you are a more profane and sacrilegious generation then those , whom dr. featly calls so , will appear very plainly if you consider either what sacriledge , and profaneness are indeed , or what dr. featley , if he may be your spoksman , to whom you refer us , doth falsey suppose it , & hath defined it to be , for he states profaneness or sacriledge ( for these two with him are one ) to be the extream in the defect to religion , to which the extream in the excess ( saith he ) is superstition , which is the offering to god , what he claimes not for his own , whilst the other i. e. profaneness , sacrilegiously robs god of that which is his own in a particular manner ; which if so , then you ccclergy men are more guilty in this behalf then any other under the sun , for , besides that you erre from the true religion in the excesse , by superstitious attribution of such things to god , as his by institution , which are not his , but your own inventions viz. payment of tithes to you , infant-sprinkling , and many other , which you plead for , ( as if the lord had required them ) iure divino , or iure apostolico , whereas it is no false latine , because true english to say they stand iure humano , et apostatico or rather daemonito by the devil and the whores appointment , you erre from it also in the defect by sacrilegious ablation , and abolition of the true baptism and ordinances from the church , which christ hath appointed ; this though it be wonderful strange , yet is marvellous true , for though ordinary men miscarry from the mean , but by one extream ordinarily , e. g. if men erre from the vertue liberality by prodigality , they are not covetous too , or if by covetousness they are not prodigal too , but so extraordinarily out of holy order are you , o ye that are in holy orders , that you content not your selves to go beyond the word , but you 'l be behind it too , you will make god own that he never commanded , neither ( to use the phrase and figure in which he speaks of himself ) came it all into his mind , and disown his own precepts , which you make void by your traditions : t is bad to be in the extream on either hand from the truth , but to be in both the extreams at once is to be extream bad indeed , yet thus it is with you , o ye priests , as whos 's not onely superstition , but sacriledge also , hath exceeded , and by sundry degrees surpassed all that ever was , whether among anabaptists or others : yea , if you look with a cleer eye , all that of those whom your doctor of divinity makes such remarkable observations of , as suffering the hand of god inflicting curses on them for this sin of sacriledge . the first whereof is xerxes , who attempted to pillage the temple at delphos . * his second , caepio the consul , who spoiled the famous temple at tolouse . * thirdly crassus , fourthly herod , both whose men of warre were ruined for rifling the sepulchre of david . fiftly , belshazzer who was frighted with an hand-writing for carousing in the vessels of the temple . sixtly copronymus that had a carbuncle arose in his forehead for taking a crown out of a christian church ( alias , steeple house ) which was set with carbuncles . seventhly iulian together with felix , who both had gods vengeance lighting on them for carrying away the golden vessels , and rich presents which the devotion ( he should have said the superstition ) of constantine and constantius dedicated to god in the new temple at ierusalem . * eightly , rotman with c●iperdolin , who seized on the church , alias high place dedicated to st mauritius , a saint of the popes canonizing . ninethly munster and phyfer , who being it seems in war , made their magazines , and cast their ordnance in the covent of the franciscans . * tenthly , iohn of leyden , who sacrilegiously converted into apparel for himself , and others the holy things of god , ( for so he must call them , or else he keeps not to his text , and his own interpretation of it , which is that the anabaptists are a sacrilegious sect ) viz. the holy copes , holy altar cloathes , and holy vestments which the priests were wont to wear in their holy masses , which iohn of leyden i should have thought he had been lost , if he had not come in at the last , sith at first or last i find him serving every turn of dr. featley , insomuch that the whole six fold tale , he tells of the anabaptists , would never handsomely have hung together , if iohn of leyden the tailor did not stitch it up , for iohn of leyden serves to prove them an illiterate and sottish sect , iohn of leyden a blasphemous and lying sect , iohn of leyden an impure and carnall sect , iohn of leyden a cruel and bloody sect , iohn of leyden a prophane and sacrilegious sect , iohn of leyden a sect whom gods vengeance followes , who ere is another , iohn of leyden is one , you may thank iohn of leyden , else all were undone . these are the many instances , wherewith your dr. patches up two or three pages of that fift piece of his remarkables , wherein he tell tales the anabaptists to be a sacrilegious sect , in which , if ye were not bedoted as much as your ipse dixit ( o ye disciples of dr. featley ) you might see of your selves , first that if the actions instanc't in were sacriledge , yet the men were no anabaptists , for the last are more called then proved so , and the rest , which are well nigh two parts of three , were never so much as named so since the world stood , secondly that if the men had been all anabaptists , yet all the actions were no ▪ sacriledge , for set aside what belshazzer did , whose action of common drinking in the temple vessels , was then sacriledge , as now it now it would not be ( all that relative holinesse of temples , and vessels , places and things dedicated , the doctor so much prates of , being ceased since christ crucified iohn . ) i say set that aside and all the rest , viz. rifling of the things which he calls churches , viz. the temple of appollos at delphos , and that of tolouse , that of st. maurice at munster , of queen hellina at ierusalem , and the fryers covent ( whether they may be called theft or no , i know not ) were are as far from being sacriledge , as the places were from being holy places in truth , and that is as far as the popes holiness is from gods : but to conclude this matter , it s much of a price to you ( o priests ) whether the matters of fact that fearley fains , to be sacriledge , and would fain fasten , and father as well upon the anabaptists of this present age , as that above , be so yea or no ; for this we are sure of however , that either the things he defines it by viz. the demolishing , alienating , or common using of hallowed temples , fryers covents , tables , altars , altar cloathes , copes , cups , and other rich vestments , vessels , vtensills , fonts , pulpits , profits , and emoluments , gleabs , centries , tithes , first fruits , oblations , and other obventions is no sacriledge , nor robbing of god , nor fingering of holy things ( as i utterly deny it to be ) or else if it be , that the protestant priesthood are more deeply guilty of it , if not in affection , yet at least in action then the anabaptists of this age : for if we ask , who sacrilegiously sacrificed , and in their sacred zeal for king charles against king christ coined to his common use , and unholy war , the plate devoted to their colledge uses in the holy benevolence of benefactors ? did not some of you masters , provosts , fellowes of colledges and such like ? who , towards a reformation from rome , demolished . holy abbeys , and monasteries , holy colledges , hospitals , . holy chanteries , and chappels , and diverted the infinit riches , which was devoted by the freewill offering of devout persons , and assigned for the maintenance of the ministry that then was , viz. the holy priests , monks , nuns and fryers from the ecclesiastical use of that spiritualty to the temporall revenew of the crown , didst not thou o prelacy flatter king henry the eighth into this , and the subversion of the roman supremacy that thou mayest have a supremacy of thy own , under a colour of giving it to the king ? who have confiscated the holy pallaces and devoted profits of two arch-bishopricks , bishopricks , denaries , arch-deaconries , spiritual dignities , and prebendaries , to auxiliations and augmentations , hast not thou o presbyterian ? didst not thou alone uncover the sin and nakednesse of thy old father episcopacy out of a covetous and ambitious desire to steal away the birth-right from the elder brethren the deans , prebends , and canons ; and now that heaven deceives thy longing expectation , so that thy kingdom falls irrecoverably , and men will no more fall down before thee , nor do the worship , and double honour of observation and maintenance to thy lording eldership , but impropriate all that thou gapest for to themselves , together with all thy vicarages , besides parochial benefices , being no impropriations , so that neither thou nor the true ministry neither shall have any of it , unlesse thou forsake thy errors for it , and they the truth , is it these independents whom thou falsely callest anabaptists , or those whom we truly call antibaptists , that are now acting all this sacriledge ? and more lately yet , who did a way , i mean directive , for indeed the civil power , whom you in your pulpits sub pena'd to it , did it corrective , who i say did a way most sacrilegiously the sacred crosses , viz. coventry , cheapside , charing , & others ? who councel'd away the curious crucifixes ? who spoiled the holy cathedrals of their holy organs , and popish pipes and pictures ? who prophaned the holy fonts in all the holy churches and chappels , because they found the people idolizing them ? upon which account they ought as well to demolish the very churhces themselves : who profaned all the holy dayes , and feasts dedicated to the honour of saints by the pope ( which were more then daies in the year ) and those that were in use under prelacy viz. easter , christmas , whitsunday , &c. didst not thou o presbyter ? who altered the holy altars , and alienated to other use the holy altar clothes ? who robbed the old church robbers the bishops , and the sons of that hierachy of their holy robes , and divested the church-men of the holy vestments , wherewith they were adorned , and wherewith also they adorned ( much more then by their conversations ) the doctrine of god and our saviour jesus christ , viz. the cornerd cap , and holy hood , the sacred sandals , and costly cassokes , lawn sleeves and consecrated copes , silken girdles , plush , velvet , and sattanical gowns , and cancelled that very canons themselves that their holinesses contrived , wherein they commanded the wearing of them ? who pul'd away the holy railes from before the sanctum sanctorum in every holy quire where they were stated ? did not ye o presbyterians ? hear therefore ye deaf that ye may understand , and look ye blind that ye may see , for if this be sacriledge and church-robbing , and holy theft , and robbing god &c. to casheere all the forenamed consecrated commodities , then thou o priesthood art deeper in the guilt of it then any baptists , yea we are not so much as accessary to that violent ablation of these things , as whose principle leads us to lend leave to those , not in the church , but in the world , that will use these fooleries , to use them ; yea if we wish the abolition of what your divines call sacriledge to remove , yet our strength against them is to sit still , and save our paines , and see all this kind of sacriledge committed on them to our hands ; but in very deed as we are not the men , so this you call so is not the thing you wot of , but a meer scarcrow and bugbear to fright fools with indeed , and not a purloining of holy things * , for as for outward things ( contradict it o ye classicall clergy if ye can ) there is no holinesse in them now as of old there was , neither in places , nor in vtensils , nor in ornaments , nor in monuments , nor emoluments , nor in altars , nor glebes , for those things that are truly holy , are laid up in the soul , and , to answer your doctors question , though i have heard of a two-fold holinesse viz. inherent , and relative , in the subject , and in the object , yet as i may truly say this with the dr. that inherent holinesse no intelligent man ever attributed to inanimate things , so this against him that relative holinesse , none but a superstitious christian ever attributed to any thing under the gospel , that is of mans invention , donation and dedication , as almost all dr. featleys furniture , and rinkets are , but such onely as are relatively holy , as are in such special relation to gods that he claimes , and challenges , peculiar interest in , as his by donation , dedication , ordination , institution , &c. in which regard some temples are holy , e. g. his people in church-fellowship , living stones built up an habitation of god through the spirit , but not such temples as dr. featley meanes of dead stones , as are by men hallowed to his name , some dayes as the feasts dedicated by himself , but not any dedicated by men to his honour ; some persons as priests and levites under the law , presbyters and deacons calld i. e gifted and qualified by him ( not ungifted dumb dogs , drones , and drunkards , so denominated , dedicated , donated by meer men ) under the gospel ; some lands , profits , and preferments , reserved , and assigned by god as the inheritance of his saints and ministers i. e. servants viz. not glebes , tithes , centries , but the heavenly canaan , the holy city , the holy ierusalem that comes down from god out of heaven , incorruptible , indefiled that fadeth not away ; some certain vtensils , instruments , ordinances , and means of serving him , and of communion with him here for a time , till we come to the perfect , and immediate injoyment of him , viz. the table , the font , not such as dr. featley means , but the lords table , and baptism it self , the laver of regeneration ; some vessels , but not silver chalices , nor the whores golden cup full of trash , abomination and filthinesse , but the earthen vessels i. e. homely , and ( to outward appearance ) silly , empty , weak , plain dispensations , and administrations , which christ hath chosen , whereby to save them that believe , and to bring to nought the gawdy formes , and wayes of mans wisdome ; some vestments , not the cope , nor the miter , black coat nor surplice , stained with the filthinesse of the whores fornication , but fine linnen white and clean , i. e. the righteousnesse of the saints , imployed in the immediate service and worship of god , for i will be sanctified of every one that comes neer to me saith the lord ; any of which holy things to alienate , unjustly detain , deprave , profane , or purloin from any of those places , or persons to whom ( what ere the law of the land doth ) the law of god , and the gospel hath appropriated , and apportionated them , is that ( call you it what you will ) which we call sacriledge , and is a sin that was never so much committed by any rank of men under the sun as it is by you ccclergy men , that yet of all men seem most to abominate it , and of all sins in the world cry out against it ; for if as ask who lords it over christs holy heritage ? who hath trodden down the holy city ? who slew the parsons of the witnesses ? who hath broken the laws , changed the ordinances , broken the everlasting covenant , for which a curse now is devouring the earth ? who hath made void christs commands by their own traditions ? who hath taken away from the sacraments , the right subjects , and manner of administration ? who have justified the wicked for reward , and taken away the righteousnesse of the righteous from him ? who hath defiled the true temple , and made the house of god a house of merchandize , slaves and souls of men rev. . a den of theeves ? have not you the ccclergy ? yea your dr. talks of the font , and the communion table , and the pulpit , but who stole away baptism and the supper , and preaching it self , so that there 's nothing but sprinkling bells , babies , and confusion , and one moity of a dinner , and more pulpit , and pew , and belcony , and canopy , and cloth , and cushion , then preaching , and plain publication of the gospel as it is in jesus ? you talk off robbing god in matters of the law , and tithes , offerings and things that came by moses , and now are not at all ; but who hath robbed him in matters of grace , and truth , and ordinances , and things that came by christ , one tittle of whose testament shall not be contradicted by man nor angel under pain of cursing ? you talk of golden cups and vessels , in which the whore fills out her abominations and filthinesse of her fornication to the whole earth , but who hath taken away the key of the kingdom of heaven , i. e. from the people and church ? in whom the power lies fundamentally , and primarily ( for t is but derivatively from the church under god , secondarily , executively , and ministerially in the officers : not onely papa but pp too ; see rutherfords presbytery , wherein he wrests the power of the keyes from the people : who hath taken away the key of knowledge , and shut up the kingdom of heaven against men , as neither willing to go in themselves by the right way and baptism , nor to suffer them that would ? who but ye o priests have been in these things more sacrilegi church-robbers , then sacerdotes , or givers of holy things ? yea what evil of this kind yyyou have wrought in the sanctuaries of god , how you have laid them wast throughout the whole earth , how you have defiled the pure waters thereof , and did so claudere rivos shut down the floodgates , that the people could have none of these to drink , and caused all discourses , and all places to overflow with muddy and brackish waters , if i should hold my peace , the stones out of the wall , even those living stones out of the true temple , that are living monuments of gods mercy at this day , in that they are alive from the dead , even the dead night of your errors , will proclaim to the everlasting infamy of that generation , that have been the neerer the church , the further from god. thou makest thy boast of god ( o pppriesthood ) and wouldst seem to approve of the things that are most excellent , and art confident thou thy self art a guide of the blind , and a light of them that sit in darknsse , an instructer of the foolis● , a teacher of babes , but indeed thou art a blind guid , a dark lantorn , a foolish instructer , and hast need thy self to be taught by those babes , which live upon the sincere milk of the word , which be the first principles of the oracles of god thou hast a form of knowledge , and of truth as it was in the law , that was ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) long since abolished according to which thou enthusiasts to thy self a iudai al , pontificall , politicall , pollitical , religion of thy own ; but thou art grossely ignorant of the truth of the gospel , and that form of doctrine that rome obeyed from the heart of old , before it came to be a mother of harlo●●y , and of such a crew of corrupt children as have since then come from her to the corrupting ing of the earth ; thou teachest another , but thou teachest not thy self , thou preachest a man should not steal , but thou stealest , thou saiest a man should not commit adul●tery , but all the kings , and their people in the christian earth have committed adultery with thee , thou seemest to abhorre it , yet thou more then any committest sacriledge , yea thou o pppriesthood art that holy harlot , that holy thief , that hast fingred the most holy things , yea even the holy scripture it self , which is the store-house , and under christ the treasury of truth , and hid it from the world under unknown tongues , and a heap of unsound sences , which thou hast put upon it , therefore thou art inexcusable o woman when thou judgest the now churches of sacriledge , for wherein thou judgest them thou condemnest thy self , for thou that judgest doest the same things , which thou saiest they do , but they do not , and therefore is he now killing thy children with death , and we are sure that the judgement of god is according to truth against them that do such things . yea wo unto you o ye blind guids , ye strein at a gnat , and make it sacriledge , and church robbing , to take fonts , and railes , and pipes , and pictures , and altars &c. out of your stone temples , and keep a do about cleansing , and hallowing , and having these outside decencyes , and orders , and offerings , but swallow a camel and demolish the true temple of god , and the vessels of the sactuary , i. e. the ordinances thereof , which is holy indeed , which temple the saints are , that are built together a spiritual house unto him , and your selves are full of ravening extortion and excesse : you are as graves that appear not , and the men that walk over you are not aware of you , nor how they are rid over by you , nor how very well to be rid of you , wherefore the wisdome of god even christ iesus now sends you prophets , and apostles , and wisemen , and scribes to warn you , yet these you kill and crucifie , and scourge and persecute as your enemies , because they tell you the truth , that the blood of all the prophets that have prophesied in sack cloth , and tormented you and your forefathers , and your people that dwell on earth for moneths , may come on this generation , and so your house be left unto you desolate for ever . and fourthly there needs no more to prove you to be what you say of us , that we are , viz. a lying and blasphemous sect , then all these forenamed falsities which are asserted of the anabaptists , when of right they belong more properly to your selves . yea great need indeed and good reason , that you should be the plantiffs in this businesse of loa●ing with disgraces , belying and blaspheming , who have bin your selves nex : and immediately under satan supreme false accusers of the brethren to the world , and the powers , courts , and consistories thereof civil , and ecclesiastical for hereticks , schismaticks , sectaries , seditious deceivers , hypocrites , blaspheme●s , enemies to caesar , trouble townes , and what not , with which kind of nicknames you the false kingdome of the priests , have overwhelmed the true royall priesthood as with a flood , the burden of whose scandals , blasphemies , tales , and disgraces , wherewith you have loaded the saints per mille ducentos sexaginta annos , . years , exceeds any ( id genus ) that the saints have loaded you with in number , weight , and measure , per millies mille ducentas sexaginta lias l. you have cloathed the pretious sons and daughters of sion , as the persecuting emperors did of old , with the skins of wild beasts , and so cast them to the dogs to be devoured , i. e. with the names of monsters , and so exposed them to the hatred of the world , with the which kind of sport not onely dr. featley , and mr. edwards , while they lived , made themselves merry , and their friends too , by bestowing legends a piece towards the support of their severall false wayes , as one great benefactor did a legend of lies on the papistrey , to the maintaining of that which they call the golden legend , but others also , bely the nicknamed anabaptists of this present age , and nation as denying any obedience to civil magistracy , any propriety in goods , as holding plurallity , and community of wives , divorce for difference in religion , as dipping men and women stark naked , and such like . yea just the same lying shi●ts , and inventions that the popish clergy did use to help their religion by against the protestants , when they began first to protest against them , and their abominations , do you the protestant ccclergy , i. e. both prelacy and presbytery strengthen your cause by against the anabaptists , especially of all sectaries . . they detain the people from reading the scripture alledging to them the perills they may incurr through misinterpretation , * you likewise would not have the scripture medled with by this clergy of laicks , mechanick , fantastick enthusiasts , profound watermen , sublime coachmen , illuminated tradesmen , &c. apron levites , sectarian preachers , as dr. featley and mr. baily call them , * for they ( say you ) are dunces , and ignorant both of tongues and arts , and so must needs run into errors , and are insufficient for these things , let the smith keep him to his anvile , and the cobler to his last . . these bred antipathy between the papist and protestant , and debar them all sound of the protestant religion as much as may be , by prohibiting books of the reformed writers , and traffick with such hereticall countries , or such places where those contagious sounds , and sights ( as they term them ) might make them return infected . you also forbid your good protestants all society , and commerce ( as much t is possible ) with these pitchy persons , as those that they can't come neer , but they must be defiled with them . . those by the severity of their inquisition , and so you by your high commission and spiritual ( alias , spiteful ) courts , while they stood , and by complaints to the next classis , synod , &c. as in scotland , and threats to have an order taken with such and such ( as here in england ) crush as far as you can in your people the very beginnings , and smallest suppositions of being this way addicted . . they teach their people to believe that the protestants , and so do you that the anabaptists are basphemers of god , * and his saints . those that in england , churches are turned into stables , you that the anabaptists preach in tubs , that stables are turned into temples , stalls into quires , shopboards into communion-tables : those that the people , i. e. protestants are barbarous , and eat young children , that geneva is a professed sanctuary of roguery * &c. you that the anabaptists are filthy , and base in their conventicles , and are for murder , adulteries , butchery , bawdery , the veriest villains in the world . you tell the world that the anabaptists would have no rules , nor bonds of lawes : because of their dissolutenesse , which ( though it be true enough of the ranter that peter and iude speaks of , that seperate themselves from their churches sensual , presumptuous , self-willed , despising government peter the second epist. chap. . yet is most false of our churches that seperate from you ) that we would have no discipline in the church , no learning nor universities . no coercive power in the civill magistrates to restrain us because we walk inordinately , whereas though we cannot away with your canons , yet we are the only men in the world for the rule , which christ himself hath set for men to walk by , even the word , the scriptures , which onely , and not synodicall constitutions , nor holy chair we stand to have the standard for truth to be tryed by to the worlds end , and are for all lawes in nations , save such as obedience to which makes us palpably rebellious against the law of christ , viz. lawes for tithes with trebble dammages , for christ never appointed mens goods to be streined , and they sold out of what they have to pay his own ministers for preaching his own gospel , much lesse to pay the popes ministers for preaching a gospel of their own ? also laws to come to masse in latine , or masse in english , or any service of mans making under penalty , we also stand for a true church that hath right matter viz. professed believers baptized , and right form viz. free , not forced fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers : we are also for the true discipline i. e. christs ( not the clergies ) in that church , we hold also that magistrates , though their persons should be wicked men and heathens ( for the notion of christian addes nothing to their power as magistrates ) are the ordinance of god , to maintain all civil justice and righteousnesse , between man and man , and to restrain abuses such as murder , treason , adultery , drunkennesse , theft , false witnesse , though they have no coercive power to keep men from serving god according to his own will , that power we deny , yet go not about by violence to withstand it but in quietnesse suffer under it , when it is put forth against us : we are also for learning , for t is a good talent , to use for god , and too good for the devill , a good servant , but a bad master , and we wish that there were more of it then there is among you ccclergy ( if it may be also well improved , as it seldome is by those of you that have it ) for as those of you that are more singular schollars then the rest in humanity , and that meer anthropo-theology that is among you , which you call divinity , are deep dunces for the most part in the school of christ , and most opposite , through the wisdome of their flesh , which is enmity against god , to the follishnesse of the gospel , so no lesse then legions of you are little learned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 either . yea verily , and fiftly , howbeit among other things you brand the anabaptists with the names of an illiterate and sottish sect , cut as chips out of nicolas stock ( whom featly faines to be the father of the anabaptists , and stiles a very blockhead , and such as know not how to teach , nor dispute for truth ) because they know not the original , and cannot conclude , in mod and figure p. . . . nor make able ministers of the gospel , because they understand not the scripture in the original languages , and cannot expound without grammer , nor perswade without rhetorick , nor divide without logick , nor sound the depth of any controversie without philosophy , and school divinity p. yea dr. featley defeats s of his fellow clergy men utterly in so saying , from the name of able ministers , yea as he saies of us in another , so may we of them in this case , hos suo ingulamus gladio , we may wound them with their own dudgeon dagger , for if ignorant and unlearned men are not fit to make ministers ; then not onely , their laity ( which are millions ) are unlearned for the most part , and so by dr. featleys own confession unfit to be teachers of truth , but even multitudes of their ccclergy too , for it is none of the least brands saies dr. featley p. . of the roman antichrist that he filled the church , with a number of ignorant mass priests , monks and friats , who blind guids ( as they were ) of the blinder people , fell with them into the ditch of superstition , heresie and sensuallity : and ( say i ) the english antichrist i. e. the arch-bishop of canterbury , a chip of the old block , that was an apprentice at rome in old'n time , till he set up for himself here , and became indeed what the old caiaphas , pope urbane the second , prophesied of him in a complement about ( little thinking then ( god wot ) that he would serve him such a trick as to set up his posts against his posts , and take away his custome , and trading here in england ) papatus alterius orbis : this english antichrist i say hath multiplyed many teachers , and feeders , that are far better ●ed , then taught in matters of either god or man , and as few scholars as are among the true churches ( if there were none , the truth would stand without them , and god delights in no mans legs ) but if there were need of that to the making ministers of the gospel , there is proportionably fewer among your churches , considering how little christs flocks is , and how voluminous the fold of the wwwhore , and how few truly are so , that go under that name among the people , with whom hand tam cultus quam cucullus facit monachum ? for though you talk of secular learning , yet if that were so necessary to a minister , as the ministry say it is , it would not onely cut off peter and iohn from that denomination , who were though better gifted , yet lesse learned in that sense then the least of you , but most of you ccclergy also , among whom throughout your whole dominion of christndome , there 's few country curates are well studied scholars indeed , in logick , and other arts and sciences ; and as for the tongues and original languages of the scriture ( i speak it to the shame of the ministry , who unminister themselves in saying it is so necessary ) there is scarce five of . know the originall in the old testament , and not twenty to so well as you should do in the new ; and as for the onely true learning and original of all wisdom , the fear of god , growth in grace , and the knowledge of christ , and misteries of his kingdom , and the spirit , that christ promised to his people , to teach them all things , which it were better for you by all your learning that you had more of , unlearned peter himself may truly tearm the most of you such unlearned ones , as wrest the scripture to your own destruction * act. . . pet. . . yea so ungifted are the most of you so much as to pray , and then well may you be to preach , ( and that is to be unlearned as to the ministers office ) that unlettered , or at least unspirited artificers , may be the proper name of some clergy men , as well as of the teaching tradesmen dr. featly speaks of , for these receive the holy spirit , that gifts them to it , but not many of the clergy are gifted to pray extempore without book : if i onely said this you would not believe me , but sith your great patron dr. featly , to whom you send us , is my patron as to this , you must believe it whether you will or no ( unlesse you would have us believe him , whom you will not believe yovr selves ) who gives this good reason , p. . why its necessary to have set formes for the ministers of the church of england to pray by , if they pray at all in publique , for there is not one minister ( saith he ) or curate of an specially in country villages , or parochial churches , who hath any tolerable gift of conceived ( as they term them ) or extempore prayers ; which if so , you have smal reason to cry out of others , as illiterate ; yea verily your selves will appear to be ( as the anabaptists are stil'd by you ) an illiterate and sottish generation in things principally pertaining to christ , and to ministers of christ to be skil'd in , for that indeed is to be truly learn'd or unlearn'd in quoquo genere viz. to be raw or ready either in that which men supremely pretend to excell in , as the divine doth to excell other men in the things of god , or else in that which is most excellent in it self , and most worthy ou● being learn'd in , as the highest and most excellent objects that are knowable being christ and the mysteries of his kingdome , those consequently are the best scholars in the world that are most deeply insighted thereinto though elsewise never so ignorant . si christum nescis nihil est si caetera noscis , si christum noscis , nihil est si caetera nescis . now count which of these two waies you will , the greatest clerks will appear to be the greatest novices , the greatest doctors the greatest dunces , the greatest schoolmen the least schollars , the prime of the priesthood the prime ignoramus's that the christian earth doth carry : for howbeit , o yee ppprists , some of you ( for the most of you will never be mad with much learning ) even surfeit on inferiour literature viz. arts , tongues &c. and are taller then other men by the head in the reading of history , oratory pieces of pibald poetry and such like , yet as to the misterious plain gospel , wherein are hid , and whence are handed out unto us the treasures of eternity , in earthen vessels i. e. the homely , base , foolish , weak wayes and dispensations which are of christs chusing , which it concerns christs ministers of all men to be more clear in then in any thing else , they are low , and therefore too high and wonderful for you high studied men to reach to ; they are far about out of your sight . yea i thank thee ( o father ) lord of heaven and earth that thou hidest these things ( because seeing they will not see them ) from the wise and prudent and revealest them unto babes : yea o lord how great is the multitude of meer humanists , that feed onely upon the common theory of that theology they have framed to themselves , and relish nothing but what is of man ? how are thy depths , even thy downright deliveries of soul saving truth in plainess of speech by the mouths of stammerers stark duncery to them ? how will not a poor , marred , mocked , misreputed saviour , and gospel in any wise down with them ? who did of old , and who do still stand out most stiffly against thy gospel ( o christ ) but the proud self conceited pharisees , priests and lawyers , who while the people believe and justifie god , being baptized with the true baptism , do generally reject the councel of god against themselves , being not baptized therewith ? where had thy message by the mouth of paul lesse acceptance then at the university of athens ? where hath the word now lesse then in the academies , christian academies , seemingly reforming academies ? where , if thou didst not tell us that christ crucified should be foolishnesse to the wise men after the flesh , and disputers of this world , who could believe that the princes of zoan should be such fools , such idiots as they are in the matters of thy kingdom ? where doth thy truth meet with more difficult entrance , more course entertainment , more malitious accusatious , more captious questions , secret underminings , open oppositions then among the ccchristian ministry , which therefore is not thine , but antichristian , because it is both for thee and against thee ? yea who so blind as those that seem to themselves to be the onely seers both for themselves and others ? ever seeking to thee for thy spirit , yet ever resisting thy holy spirit , speaking to them out of the mouths of babes , as a very babler , ever teaching yet never learning which be the first principles of thy doctrine , ever serving thee , yet ever thinking they do thee service when they affront thy servants , o lord let as many of them as do it ignorantly obtain thy mercy if it be thy will , and let thy truth shine into their souls that they may be saved : as for such as are more malevolently disposed , if it may not be otherwise but that the main body of the ccclergy shall evermore be adversaries to thee and thy clergy , amen sobeit . and now have shewed the reasons , why god suffers hereticks , and hath suffered the arch-heretick , and schismatick , and mother of abominations of all christndom i. e. the ccclergy , that have been wolves rather then pastors to christs sheep , the last of which reasons was this , to provoke the true pastors to diligence , and watchfulnesse , to prove them whether they be hirelings or not , such as will flee when the wolf comes , or lay down their lives for the sheep , and having discovered whom i mean by pastors viz. not the priests , but those of the truly gathered , and constituted churches ; that have separated themselves from the priest , and his parish popish posture , i proceed yet a little further . for this last reason administers the matter of this ensuing discourse concerning the wayes how pastors of right constituted churches , such as those of the baptists onely are , should oppose , or rather should have opposed the coming in of these wolves the ccclergy ( for the pastors of old , through their negligence did suffer them to come in ) and drive them out being entered : what the magistrates duty is in this case it presumes not to set down here , partly because the magistrates duty is discovered , and discourst on above , and partly because it presumes the magistrate will be wise enough in this age , to know what he is to do towards the freeing of himself from that infinit care and cumber that hath crusht him in former dayes , by the ccclergies constant clacking to him to correct hereticks , schismaticks , and sectaries , and crying out to him to lend them his helping hand , and the edge of his civil sword about church-work : yea and if god who did once put it into the hearts of the kingdomes of the earth to fulfill his will , and to agree and with one mind to give their power , strength and kingdom unto the beast , and to serve the whore that rode them rev. . . . and as ten horns to toss the saints at her will , will now put it into the minds of these ten horns , even all the kingdoms of christndom to hate the whore , and make her desolate , and naked , and eat her flesh , and strip her of all her tith , and spiritual glory , revenue , dignity , and burn her with fire , and in their rage to ruin great bbbabilon the city that in three ppparts or ppproud pppriesthoods hath reigned over them , as i believe he will rev. . , . . . throughout , as i can neither much help or hinder it , so i find no warrant to cry alas , alas for it , as the kings , and merchants that come down with her shall do , but rather allelujah with all the people , rev. . . . . . . . . &c. there are two publique wayes , for private are suffering , fastings , and prayers , and teares &c. matters wherewith the ccclergy ( for the most part of them ) never yet kild themselves , nor approved themselves yet as the ministers of christ by , as his true ministers did of old , which have been practised by pastors in those primitive dayes viz. disputing , preaching , concerning both which this discourse intends onely a short survey , leaving the proceedings in them to their judgements , whom god hath made faithful . disputation ( say our ashford disputants ) hath ever been decried by most iudicious and grave men ; tertullian is bitter ( say they ) against it ; perdes in contentione vocem , nihil consequeris nisi vilem de blasphematione landem , and i say so too , a man may very easily wrangle ad ravim , dispute himself hoarse , and lose his tongue in contention , and get nothing , but a base repute of blasphemation , specially when , as t was at ashford , and somewhere else within a mile of an oak the contention is so sharp , that there 's not onely six tongues to one or two talking for it , tuning altogether against the truth , but six bells balling out also to bear it down with : and another magni res est periculi veterem fidem quasi novellam otiosa disputatione discutere , and so indeed it is a matter of great disadvantage idlely to dispute the old faith , as if it were some new one : whereupon , that truth may receive detriment by us in nothing , henceforward we do all men to wit , that howbeit the ccclergy and their creatures claim antiquity to be on their sides still , both in the point of baptism , and other differences between them , and the men call'd anabaptists , and delude their people into a blind misbelief that all that truth , * which now comes to light , is to be taken for granted to be heresie before hand , new faith , new wayes , a new gospel ( and this they do more easily and effectually , by how much t is true that the fog of their errors hath been so thick , that men can find but little of that , which now shines forth , in the dayes of our more immediate forefathers , though there were many righteous men no question then disiring to see and hear what we now do and could not ) howbeit i say they have prepostest people thus , yet in order to the dispossessing of them of that praejudication , by reason whereof the primitive truth , which ( however god winktwhile it was a time of ignorance ) must , now it comes to light again , be received in the love therof , that they may be saved , and in the rejection of which they will be damned thes. . gets little entertainment into their hearts ; i here proclaim it again to all people upon earth ( as that truth , which , as i have shewed above , god will shew the clergy once to their shame ) that the baptizing or dipping believing men and women in that way , wherein we do it , is no new faith , practise , nor baptism , but that one only true baptism , which was instituted by christ , and used in the primitive times of the gospel , and that their sprinkling infants is a meer trifle , a toy , a new trick , and tradition of the church , in its beginning to degenerate into darknesse and superstition ; and also that t is a tradition ( though more antient , and reverent then some others : as mr. rogers said of it , and of which the church hath been pos●est for years , as mr. marshall ( a little more then he could undoubtedly prove too , said of it ) is confest not onely by the italian clergy , as bellarmine , who said it could not be proved by scripture , but ( as simply as our clergy wrests the scripture into the proof on t ) by the remonstrants also , who held it but as a very antient rite , that could scarcely be left off without great offence ; yea and dr. gouge also , that would not be intreated to say ay or no to it at dr. chamberlains request , now he sees people begin to pry into it , did once acknowledge that it was a tradition of the church ; see dr. chamb. to mr bakewel p. . where he saies he hath under mr. barbers hand that he said so , and used it as an argument to perswade him to take the oath ex officio : and i desire all men to understand by these presents , before whom we may happen to dispute this point hereafter , that we declare against infant-sprinkling as a novelty in the faith , and when we plead the dipping of believers , as we are not in jest , intending otiosam disputationem such idle , dribling demi disputes , and dainty dispatches , as the priesthood put us off with , wherein he flams us i th mouth for an hour or two with the flap of a fox tail , and lends us two or three licks of latine , and logick and away again , but a more serious , earnest and constant course of conferring , till the truth be tryed to the utmost , so what we are so careful to contend for , it is no new one , but that old faith and baptism , which was once delivered to the saints , this course of continued discourse , though it suits not with such , as seeing see not , whose waies and courses are so much the more suspitious to be naught , by how much the lesse they abide the light , and a modern author whose learning and judgement lives in the memories of many of our kentish clergy , * passed this sentence on it , pruritus disputandi scabies ecclesiae , yet i say is that , the very life of the truth is so far concerned in , that there 's very little of it comes to light in the ccclimate of the ccclergy , by reason of their subtle sneaping things as much as may be out of sight , that make against them ; i know the perverse disputings against the truth of men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth , supposing that gain is godlinesse , that t is reformation enough to mend the means of presbyters out of the bishops superfluities , is the scabb of the church of england indeed , but i speak not of the pravity , but purity of the disputation , when plain minded men destitute of all self ends are minded to be serious and self denying , and single-hearted in this work in order to more then either money or meer dispute it self : nor is it pruritus disputandi an itching simply after dispute ( for who are we simple coblers , cartars , smiths , fishermen , farmers , &c. to stand before the wise and the scribe , and the disputer of this world in that work , if god had not rejected them , and made his wisdome foolishnesse ) but it is pruritus disprobandi , a deep desiring of disproving your practises as popish , dispelling your smoak of errors , and endeavouring to the utmost of our power according to what you have sworn us to in that kind , to root out , not by the civil sword , but the plainnesse of the word , your superstition , heresie , schism , and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine , that disposes us to desire it . indeed the heathen said it was a wicked custome to dispute about the gods , for thereby things certain are oft called into question , nor have they said thus without reason , considering what little strength of reason they had wherwith to assertain it , that their gods were gods at all , but me thinks it should not be counted therefore a wicked custome among true christians , that own the true god ( unless to put forth such curious questions about god as the schoolmen do , viz. an deus potius non fuisse ? whether god could have chosen , whether he would have been god or no ? and such like fooleries ) to dispute about their god , and about his worship for fear it should grow more doubtful by discussing ; and howbeit considering the strong causes that commonly stiffen and harden the ccclergy in their heresies , or the utmost of their ends in disputing , and some of those sorry effects that ensue , there is but little encouragement to that work of disputing with them , yet sith truth can likely be no looser by comming to the light nor , is diminisht , but displayed the more by how much it is discussed , i see no reason why it should be declined , and why heteticks are not to be disputed withall : and here it cannot be amisse . if we consider , the causes , the de●ign of hereticks , the common effects of disputation with them . among the causes of the ccclergies heresies may be reckoned , amor sui , a conceit of themselves , a fancied perfection and purity in them more then others : amor sui primum aedificavit civitatem diaboli saith st. austin ) self love first set up the divels kingdome , even that great city bbbabylon that in three ppparts reigns over the kings and nations of the earth : for though there were many superstitions grown in uppon the christians before in the first three hundred years , yet the pompous kingdome of priests had no foundation whereupon to rise , so long as the roman empire remained heathen , for then the very bishops of the church of rome , whom the devil hath since made his vice-gerents in the world , were persecuted to the death by the devil himself , acting in the heathen emperors in bloody butchery against christians , yea the ministers went under miserable martyrdome as well as others , and kept indifferent close to the truth , but when once the dragon who fought against michael and his angels with open rage before , and acted against them under the very name of christians , by his angells the heathen emperors , and massacred millions of christians when he saw the emperor himself constantine the great turned christian , and resolved to vindicate christs cause , and rescue the christians from their bloody sufferings , and finding that michael and his angels did now prevail against him , and his cruel cutthroats , so that place must be no more found for them in heaven i. e. the high places of power in the empire , and that he could execute his wrath now no longer by them against the saints , as christians , a christian being now come to the crown , he had no other remedy now then to play his cards about another way and turn christian also himself , that he might have the fairer advantage to crush the true christians , that kept the commands of god , and the faith of jesus , under the new nicknames of hereticks , schismaticks , &c. that would not obey the orders of the church , insomuch that who but the devill ? who so busie as he now to have christian bishops favoured , cherished , advanced , honoured with all the honours that might be , next to that of the very crown imperial it self ? who so earnest as he to have all the world brought about by all means possible , and in all the hast to become christians , and to become one holy catholick christian church ? and so within a while ( deo permittente non approbante ) having set forth the beast , or roman empire in another shape , and christned it with the name of christendome , he scrambles up his kingdome to himself again , makes over his power , seat and great authority to this beast , thus transformed , and this beast gives it all up to the whore , he sets him up a vicar general , and names him the vicar of christ , the head of the church , bishop of the universal see , and such like , and by him , and the ministers ( of christ ) that issued from him , fills all the earth with abomination ; and reigns with as full force , though not so open face , but under a mask ( having all things in a kind of apish imitation of christs kingdome ) to the suppressing of the truth , as in former daies he had done , and all this came to passe through this sin of self love in the clergy , which as it grew great , so love to the truth grew smaller and smaller , till it came to be totally extinguisht , and the light of it wholly ecclipsed from the earth , for when the good man constantine in his zeal , to the truth , gave them great revenues , to which other princes added more still * according to the voice that was then heard in the aire , viz. hodie venenum infusum est ecclesiae so it sell out , for the clergy fell to make much of themselves and things of the earth , to serve and seek their own interests , fell to wrangling and jangling about primacy , superiority , who should be universall bishop , and such base , unworthy , abominable and self-pleasing practises , so that the truth took no more place in their hearts from thenceforth for ever . from thenceforth they began to grow in high esteem of themselves , and not only to fancy , but also to inveagle both princes and people to fancy some perfection , holinesse , choicenesse , spiritualnesse and purity in them more then in all other men , and to distinguish themselves from the people by their garbs , and titles of holy men of god , the spiritualty , the clergy , or heritage of god , the tribe of levi , the lot of gods own inheritance , the priesthood , ghostly fathers , divines , shutting out the people from sharing with them in these terms of honour ( which belong onely to gods people , whom of all the rest in the mean time , they villyfyed with the names of hereticks ) as if god himself had no regard almost to any but themselves , and did behold all manner of men , but these ministers , afar off , calling other princes , and lords ( for the clergy men were become lords and princes too now , i. e. spiritual ones ) temporall princes , lords temporall , secular men , and the people the laity , mechanicks , that must not meddle with the scripture , so much as to look in it ( for so it was in old time ) not so much as to take upon them to be skilled in it , much lesse to speak out of it , or expound , or understand any otherwise then as these divines say is the meaning of it ; yea under the raign of these latter lords , the protestant cclergy , though they have it in such plain english before their eyes , yet what a horrible thing was it , but a few years behind fancied by featley ( and still is well nigh universally by the cclergy here in england , who appropriate all the wisdome about the scripture to themselves , what a horrible thing i say , for the people to talk on , or have more to do with scripture , then to take it as the priesthood gives the sense of it : the shoomaker goes not beyond his last , nor the taylor beyond his measure ( quoth he ) only the trade ( and well might he so call it , for by that craft they have their wealth , as handicrafts men theirs by other crafts ) of expounding scripture is a mystery , which every artizan arrogateth to himself , the physitian here will be prescribing receipts , the lawyer will be demurring upon dubia evangelica , and every handicrafts man will be handling the pure word of god with impure and unwashed hands : this the pratling huswife , this the old dotard , this the wrangling sophister , in a word this men of all profession , and men of no profession take upon them to have skill in : sic ille : & quid ni quaeso o sacerdos ? what was the scripture given for thee only to look in ? or wast thou set to keep people out from it under lock and key ? or may the spirit blow no where , but where thou listest ? must not all people search it ? or must they search and find no more truth in it then thou findest ? or must they not take it into their mouths , lest they defile it , as bishop wren thought , who prohibited the people to talk on it at their tables , for fear they should prophane it ? it should seem so by dr. featley who cryed down the people as asses , apron levites , russet rabbies , the clergy of laicks &c. wondering that their dores , and posts and walls did not sweat , upon which any note was fixed to give notice of the exercises of men of any manual imployment : yea t is a thousand pitties , quoth he , that such owls and bats , and night birds ( as if the clergy onely were the children of the day , and the people the children of the night , and darknesse ) should slutter in our churches , and sile upon our fonts , pulpits and communion tables . this was the cause of that great schism of corah , dathan and abiram numb . . all the congregation is holy , but this is the cause of that schism of pope , prelate and presbyter from the primitive freedome , that gifted disciples , whether officers or no , had to speak to exhortation , edification & comfort , and that the congregation then had to admonish her ministers upon occasion col. . . viz. all the congregation are prophane , onely the priesthood holy enough to draw neer within the rails , and to preach to the people out of the pulpit , they are afraid ( i wot ) least the preaching of others there should sile and bewray it , what need else of causing the pulpit to be washed , as i have heard one of our kentish clergy men did his , after two tradesmen had preached there in his absence : they think they are men meliore luto , of some better mould , and taller by far in gods affections then the people are ; this conceit makes them go apart , look upon themselves as sons of anack , their brethren as grashoppers , shun commerce and society with them , as with publicans and sinners ; in detestation of whom , as not consecrated , they say odi profanum vulgus : and in a kind of proverbiall spel , procul hinc , procul este profani : and as dislike of others , so . dislike of their own places is another cause of the heresies of the clergy : the foot will be the hand , or not of the body , the hand will be the head or else will be no body at all : the servant regarding neither the councell , nor the command , nor the example of his master , who came not to minister to , but to minister and gave in charge that there should be no dominion among his disdiples , and bade them that meant to be greatest to be last , and least , would needs be above his master , and he that was sent greater then he that sent him , and by this he entred exceedingly into error : the minister could not indure to be the foot , to have the whole body of the church stand above himself , though sure , if he were , as a king is , major singulis , yet he is minor omnibus , and must stoop to the vote of the congregation : he could not bear it to be the hand onely to execute what the head directed in , but he must be the ●ead to give laws and ordinances of his own : corah could not be content with his place , but sought the priests office , the ccclergy could not be contented with such shepheardship as the gospel had at first , but they must needs be made priests after that more pompous way of the law ; nor to be priests onely in sensu diviso from all the saints , but they must seek the high priests office too , and have arch-patriachs , arch-bishops , lord bishops &c. they could not brook it to be amonst the saints as them that serve , but they must be as they that sit at meat , having all others to serve them : and in no mean manner neither have some of their holinesses been served , when kings and emperours have stood bare before them , bare foot at their doo●s , ( as henry the fourth emperour , and his wife , and son did at pope adrians gate before they were admitted to the speech of him ) and not onely so , but held their stirrups also , and lay down to have their necks trod upon by him ( as frederick barbarossa did to pope gregory , saying non tibi sed petro , and was answered again by the proud prelate , et mihi et petro ) in a word have held it honour enough to kiss his feet . in the state absoloms ambition o that i were a iudge ! was the cause of his rebellion , and the same kind of aspiring mind after no lesse then all power both in heaven and earth , church and state too , made the clergy , when time best served their ambitious turn , to rebell so abominably against all civil power , as not onely to exempt themselves fully from the jurisdiction of temporal princes , but most wickedly to subjugate all civil power to such depency on them and their lord god the pope , that when they have not been slaves to the clergies imperious will , and carnal concernments , he hath took upon him to act according to that power he claimes , most blasphemously saying , by me kings raign , to force them to surrender their crownes , and sacrifice their lives too to his lust ( witnesse the case of king iohn here in england ) and in scorn to kick off the crowns of emperours with his feet , and in testimony of their taking all civill power as well as spiritual to themselves , eugenius the second took on him within the roman territory , the authority of creating earls , dukes , ●nd knights , as the exarchate had done before him , helin p. . also innocent the third held a councel in rome in which it was enacted that the pope should have the correction of all christian princes , and that no emperour should be acknowledged till he had sworn obedience unto him helin p. . upon the same ambitious account pope boniface the eight , by a general bull exempted the clergy from all taxes , and subsidies to temporal princes , whereupon edward the first , put the clergy out of the protection of him , and his laws , by which cou●se the popes bull left roaring here in england , he. g. p. . the same boniface boasted one day in his pontifical attire with the keyes of the kingdom of heaven in his hand , that all spiritual power was committed to him , and the next day in the robes of an emperour , with a naked sword born before him , that all civill power was committed to him also , ecce duo gladii hic : yea after the translation of the e●pire from france to germany the popes began to make open protestation that the pontifical dignity was rather to give laws to the emperours then to receive any from them helin g. p. . and as in the state ambition , so in the church the desire of a change from membership to mastership , from servantship to lordship , over the true clergy , is the true cause of the clergies heresie and schism , for being raised by earthly power and greatnesse , they forgot the salvation of souls , sanctity of life , and the commandements of god , propgation of religion , charity toward men ; and to raise armes , to make warre against christians , to invent new devises for getting money , to prophane sacred things for their own end , to enrich their kindred and children was their onely study , saith helin out of g●iciardine geog. p. . . gloriae secularis aucupium , a desire to be somebody . iudas , thudas , simon magus are instances of it , which simon sin'd and erred so grossely out of his vain glorious desire to be lookt upon as some great one , as to offer to buy the gift of the holy spirit for money : of which sin and error of simon , no men under heaven are more guilty then the ccclergy , for as they endeavour to to get gifts and endowments for the honour , & office of ministry in the church by laying out money at schooles , and purchasing to themselves degrees , as if the spirit must undoubtedly gift men for the ministry that mean to bestow themselves that way , when once they are train'd up to be masters of arts in the university , so , to say nothing how they pay for their ordination , and actual admission into the function it self , when so fitted , though themselves call it simony , or the sin of simon to buy spiritual livings , ( these with them we see are the gifts of the holy spirit ) yet such is their unsatiable greedinesse after glory , and greatnesse in the world , that as hateful a sin as simony seems to be among them , few of their spiritual gifts shall be lost for lack of buying , if a fee be lookt for , yea how few are dispens●t f●eely : and fairly from the spirit , and not rathet from the flesh i. e. some base , corrupt , rotten , fleshly respect and selfish end or other in the spiritual patrones ? how little or no spiritual preferment is there to bigger benefices , bishopricks , or what ever ecclesiasticall dignity in any almost of the three hierachies , but it s either bruitishly bought for money , or basely beg'd for some trencher service , or bestow'd on men , qua befriended , more then qua befitted with gospel spirits , for gospel service , or in some sinister way of legerdemane or other most paultrily purchased , but specially under the papacy , where si nihil attuleris ibis homere foras . calvin saies vix cente simum quodque beneficium in papatu sine simonia conferri &c. scarcely every hundredth benefice is bestowed at this day in the papacy without simony , as the old writers defined simony , i do not say that they all buy them with ready mony , but shew me one of twenty that cometh to a benefice without some by commendation , some either kindred or alliance promoteth , and some the authority of their parents , some by doing of pleasures do get themselves favour . finally , benefices are given to this end , not to provide for the churches , but for them that receive them , therefore they call them benefices , by which words they do sufficiently declare , that they make no other account of them , but as the beneficial gifts of princes , whereby they either get the favour of their souldiers , or reward their services , i omit how these rewards are bestowed upon barbers , cooks , moil-keepers , and such dreggish men . and how judaical courts do ring of no matters more , then about benefices : so that a man may say that they are nothing else but a prey cast afore dogs to hunt after . is this tolerable even to be heard of , that they should be called pastors , which have broken into possession of a church as into a farm of their enemie ? that have have gotten it by brawling in the law ? that have bought it for money ? that have deserved it by filth services : which being children yet scantly able to speak , have received it as by inheritance from their uncles and kinsmen , and some bastards from their fathers ? but this is more monstrous , that one man , ( i will not say what manner of man , but truly such a one as cannot govern himself ) is set to govern six or seven churches . a man may see in these dayes in princes courts , young men that have three abbacies , two bishopwricks , one arch-bishoprick , but there be commonly canons laden with with five , six or seven benefices , whereof they have no care at all , but in receiving the rev●nues , inst. lib. . cap. . sect. . etc. thus they : yea the popes studied nothing more saith , helin geog. p. . then to advance their nephews , for by that name the popes use to call their bastards : hence came the saying of alexander the third viz. the laws forbid us to get children , and the devil hath given us nephews in their stead : and though luther add calvin were themselves men of more moderate minds then to purchase preheminencies , titles , dignities to themselves , yet , though somewhat better then at rome , it hath been too bad among the successors of both in clerical capacity as to that corrupt kind of climbing to the chiefest punctillioes of earthly eminency they can attain to : yea verily there 's very few of them but they are papalis ambitionis homines of popely aspiring minds , seeking superiority , gaping after glory ( of this world , not that to come ) liking to be lookt upon with distinction , as men not like other men , as men of worth , when their worth lies more many times in what they have , then what they are , affecting to be applauded for their very sermons , to be humb'd when they come to a period , in order to which ( i blush to think how they were wont to pause and look for 't in university pulpits , and sometimes too when to their greater shame they went without it ) and to be thankt for their great pains , when they have done : thus surfeiting upon self-conceit , and being drunk with affectation , they erre in affection to the rule of faith ( for how can ye believe ( saith christ ) when ye receive honour one of another , and seek not that honour that cometh from god onely ? iohn . this honour from beneath is the very element in which , and not in god , ( save as they are his creatures ) these chamaeleons the ccclergy live , move , and have their being . the ar of popularity is the breath , by which the heretick lives , vain glory the stirrop by which he mounts into such magnitude , and towers so high as to overtop not onely all other people , but all other princes also of the earth , and to exalt himself above all that is worshipped and called god , he lackt to make himself a name like to the name of the great men that are on the earth , for the name of minister or servant , to so plain and disrespected a master too , as the master christ was , whose name was cast out as evil , who made himself of no reputation , and would have all his servants specially the servants of all his servants to be of the same mind and follow him through scorn , shame , suffering , and not be above him here , if they mean to reign with him hereafter , this was too mean a name for him to be known by , he must be dominus dominorum here , & kkking it over the kings of the earth : paschalis the first caused the priests of certain parishes at rome , by reason of the neernesse of his person , their presence at his election , and to honour their authority with a more venerable title , to be called cardinals , they are now mates for kings , and numbred about . helin geog. p. . and howbeit christ forbad his ministers the seeking of glory from men in this world , as not the time for them to come to the crown in , or to any thing but the cross ; yet his desire was dicier hic est to be cryed up by the people as supreme moderator in all the matters of christs church , and civil state too , against the plain will of the old master in his word , and to be sought after as a new master : our saviour saith of the pharisees they loved the praises of men , and the present priesthood of the protestant nations lay this to our charge , who are christs messengers and servants to his churches , whom they call anabaptists , calumniating us so far as we are zealous , and follow on ( according to the many covenants , which both they and we have taken ) to reform fully by the word , as if we sought nothing but glory and to be seen of men , and meerly to make our selves masters of a sect , and such like , which if we do we shall dearly answer for the sin of seeking , and serving our selves of christs service at the last as well as they , but me thinks ( if blindnesse in this point had not happened to them ) they should see of themselves , that men cannot seek secular honour to themselves by siding with such a sect as ever was ( and ever will be whilest the world stands , such is its hatred to the truth ) every spoken against ; yea verily the name of these churches , that own and keep close to all the principles of christs doctrine , and own the whole truth , for christs sake , whose they are , both are , and yet will be cast out as evil by all other churches : yet grant these churches should grow into more request , and favour among men ( as they do at sometimes more then some act. . . ) yet their messengers to the world must expect to be continually under clouds and to be counted deceivers , disturbers , trouble townes , turners of the world upside down , where ere they come , and to be in tumults , and dishonors , and evill reports among most men cor. . . . yea wo un●o those ministers that desire all men should speak well of them , t is a shrewd sign they are none of christs , i think god hath set forth us messengers last of all ( saith paul of the messengers to the church of corinth , when it was at rest cor. . . . ) as men appointed to death , for we are made a spectacle to the world , and angels and men , we are fools for christs sake , we are weak , the church themselves may be honoured , but we must be dispised , we hunger and thirst , and are naked , and are buffetted , and have no certain dwelling place , and labour working with our hands : being reviled we blesse , being persecuted we suffer it , being defamed we intreat , we are made the silth of the world , and are the offscouring of all 's things unto this day . so that i marvel men should think we seek to be cryed up among men ; yet thus are we censured by the clergy ( and all that ever were forward for the truth , and sought to vindicate it in any part thereof , since it began to return from under those clouds , wherewith the clergy hath overcast it , were so censured by the common councel of clergy men , in their several climates ) as drawing disciples after us , that they might be called after our name , and not christs , and so wee , and not he be glorified : the papists calumniated luther with it , that he affected his disciples should be called lutherans , but he denyed it : non ●ic o ●atue , non sic ; oro ut meum nomen taceatur , absit ut mihi faetido vermium succo accederet , ut filii christi meo vilissimo nomine dicerentur ; in like manner say we to them , who are insatuated into the same faith concerning us , non sit o sacerdos , non sic : oramus non ut nostrum , sed ut christi nomen nominetur , et ut quisquis nominat nomen christi ab iniquitate ista abscedat tim. . . imo absit a nobis gloriari , nisi in cruce iesu christi , per quem mundus nobis cru●ifixus est , & nos mundo gal. . . novit dominus qui sui sunt : as for your selves o priests non v●detis id manticae quod in tergo est . t is the praise of men that most of you seek , much more then the praise of god , this makes you so erre from the way of truth , this makes it more tedious to you , then t is ordinarily to other men , to be of that sect that is every where spoken against , and to see the gospel , whose constant companions disgraces are , when it shines upon you : you are impatient of hearing so much ill as poor christ in his disciples must , and so are for the most part capable but of little good . . covetousness st paul cals it the root of all evil , al in the church al in the commonwealth growes out of the root of papal , prelatical , presbyterian , ( i had almost said , and might say it , if they turn tith-mongers too , whether per se or per alios ) independent covetousnesse : achans ●acriledge , naboths murder , naamans idolatry , iudas's treason , demetrius's persecution , demas's apostacy ; even all the mischief of all these kinds , which haue been acted by the ccclergy throughout all christendome , who , as is shewed above , are in truth the most sacrilegious , cruel , false worshipping , christ selling , truth treading , and apostatical generation that are , from apostolical purity , doth proceed from this rotten root of covetousnesse , which hath so corrupted the whole masse of men called ministers , for this . years and upward , that vel duo vel nemo , few or none of them have ever preacht the gospel , nor freely , and fully held forth the truth in all points , as it is in jesus , from thenceforth to this very day . and indeed how can any other be expected , then corrupt doctrines from men of corrupt minds , which hold gold to be godlinesse , tim. . . and suppose liberal and bountiful maintenance , and rich revenues to be the chief corner stone in their church work ? yet thus the clergy by their wonted clamors for it not onely at rome but at westminster also seem to me to suppose ; yea the higest pitch that many of them seem to point at in reformation of religion is the restoring of impropriations , , and crushing the pride of the swelling poppies or ep●scopal clergy , and conferring that large allowance on the presbyterial : you cry out that a base ministry can never do good upon the people , and that the poverty of the ministry is enough to bring them into contempt , and that the church is robbed of a painful ministry , because there is not hony enough in the hives to feed a drone . but i say you have made your selves more base by far , and brought your selves into more contempt by your covetousnesse , and greedy gaping after riches , then ever yet you came into by poverty , and that one drone will devoute more maintenance if men put into his mouth as long as he will open it , as many honest , self-denying ministers will make a good shift , not only to live , but to live to christ on : they are not seducers that preach on cheaper terms , but the basest ministers , if you count that basenesse , to be destitute of liberal maintenance , were ever yet the best ministers of the gospel , and the most inriching ministers to the people : christ foresaw clearly enough that a rich ministry would make but poor work in his vineyard , therefore in his wisdome chose not many rich , nor mighty , nor noble , but the foolish , weak , base , abject , dispised ones in the eyes of the world , and earthen vessels to send his treasure by into the world cor. . . . cor. . . yea those ministers of christ that were in afflictions , necessities , distresses , hunger and thirst , cold and nakednesse , poor and having nothing , that neither had , nor provided silver nor gold , nor brasse in their purses ( as peter and paul and the rest of the primitive preachers had not ) were the most pretious , plain , painful , profitable preachers of the gospell that ever the earth bo●e , matth. . . act. . cor. . . cor. . . ad . cor. . . ad . and if mighty meanes were such a mighty means to make able ministers of christ , as is pretended by you clergymen , that tell the state they may as well set carpenters to build without tools , as send forth ministars without liberal maintenance , i wonder there are no better ministers at rome , where they are maintained more like monarchs then ministers of christ : but t is a true proverb , that their golden cups made them become such wooden priests : cum ecclesia peperit divitias filia devoravit matrem : you tell the magistrates that they l discourage persons from medling therwith , if they allow not large maintenance to the ministry , but i pray god they may never meddle more with the ministry , that are incouraged to enter on it with respect to maintenance , such ever more maimed then maintained the gospel : such which loved the gold of the altar dearer then the altar , and corban more then conscience , and minded the wages more then the work , as ( exceptis excepiendis some few onely excepted ) the national ministry ever did since donations of dignities from temporal princes fell upon them , were ever more murderers then ministers of the gospel , nil tam sanctum , the heathen said but gold would expugne it . you would be rich , and so fall into temptation and a snare , and into many foolish and hurtful lusts , that drown men in destruction and perdition ; your love of money was the mother of all mischief , which while you coveted after , you were seduced from the faith : yea in these daies wherein you vow , and protest for the faith , as if you would fain follow on to find it fully , as t was once delivered to the saints , you l neither find it further , nor follow it faster then it keeps pace with your outward enjoyments , so that we may say truely quantum quisque sua nummorum servat in arcâ , tantum habet et fidei : so much money as you can get by it , so much faith , religion , reformation you l be for , and no more ; yea like lawyers , that look more at the greatnesse of the fee , then the goodnesse of the cause , nay being feed better , leave their old clients and turn to the other side , so do many of you in these daies ( wherein many run to and fro that knowledge may be increased ) turn to and fro that livings may still be established on you , from masse , to liturgy , and back again , and back again , and then to the directory , from all which , while you stood in the practise of them , there was no moving you by scripture nor reason : but qui pecunia non movetur hunc dignum spectatu arbitramur . but you plead that the mouth of the ox must not be muzzled that treadeth out the corn , that t is the will of god that such as have sown in the church spiritual things should reap their carnal things , that such as preach the gospel should live of the gospel . i answer t is most true there is a power , and liberty allowed , ●or such as serve the church to eat and to drink , and to subsist ( in case they cannot subsist otherwise ) at the charges of the church , when she sets them a part for her service , cor. . but it is most commendable , and thankworthy in the ministry to serve the church and preach the gospel freely and as far as t is possible not to be burdensome in this kind at all , as namely in case they have any estates of their own , or can improve themselves in any such outward employment , labor or lawful calling wherby to obtain a competent livelyhood , and lay out themselves and the gifts , that christ hath freely given them , in the service of christ freely too , as men may do many times , if they be not idle , and loving their own ease more then to ease the church of christ of unnec●ssary pressures in their purses . and thus the apostle paul , and the first ministers of the gospel did , and though they pleaded a power to live upon them , in case they could not live without them , that the church might know it to be their duty freely to minister to their ministers necessities , when they saw them willing freely to expose themselves to necessi●ies , for the truths sake , rather then seek superfluities to themselves , yet they did not use that power they had , much lesse abuse it too make a trade of it , but did rather suffer all things that they might make the gospel as little chargeable as might me cor. . . . yea they received wages sometimes when they went out to warfare , i. e. to preach the gospel up and down , so as was utterly inconsistent with the totall maintaining of themselves , which while they abode more settledly at one place , they did attend to with their own hands : for its evident that to this end they might not hinder the gospell from taking place in mens hearts by seeming too much to make a trade of it , they laboured , working with their own hands , as oft as they could conveniently , and their own hands ministred to their own necessities , and they had some honest outward occupation ( as also christ himself had , and followed too , till he was wholly taken up in travel to preach the truth , therefore mark. . . is not this the carpenter ? ) wherein they wrought at all times , saving when they were actually imployed in some service of preaching to the world , writing , disputing , visiting &c. as is plain to him that consults these scriptures , in the last of which , least any should think they did more then ministers now need to do , paul saies plainly they did not use their power , that they might be an ensample to others to follow them , so act. . . and therefore howbeit he bids timothy , that was a minister of the gospel , not entangle himself in the affairs of this life ( for t is not good indeed that ministers , mind the world so much as to cumber themselves with over much business in it , that they may be more free , then other men to please christ , who calls them in a more special sense , then all christians , to be his souldiers , yet i believe he is far from prohibiting him in that speech from following any civil calling at all , for in the very verse before tim. . . . he bids him endure hardnesse as a good souldier of iesus christ : yea ministers of all men should be patient of all things for the gospel sake , that they hinder it not by their delicacy viz. of hard work sometimes , and hard fare too , if occasion be , and hunger and thirst , and cold and nakednesse , and extremities , and necessities , and distresses , rather then lie too heavy upon the flock of christ , which is a lit●le flock , and those few mostly poor folks too in this world , though rich in faith , that may have more mind then ability to minister to their ministers , and many of them more need to be ministred to by their ministers , if at any time they have abundance , then to have their houshold-stuff strein'd , and sold , ( as poor folks kettles , pots , pans , and platters are by the priests , and their publican tith-gatherers ) to pay them . you tell us that the first ministers were gifted from god to preach the gospel ex tempore , and therefore well might they work , and yet easily preach the gospel too , but the ministers now must attain to it by much study , and hard pains , and therefore had need to be sequestred wholly from all earthly imployments , that they may give themselves wholly to that work of preaching , and to have such sufficiency of means allowed them , as may free them from all thoughts of other things , and furnish them to buy abundance of books , without which tooles you say in the trade of preaching , you cannot set up possibly to any good purpose : thus featley p. . prophecy ( quoth he ) is an extraordinary gift of the holy spirit , preaching a special faculty acquired by many years study , and mr. evans , in his sermon to the lords my lords ( quoth he ) we know you would have a learned ministry , but it is impossible for learning ever to flourish without maintenance , you may as well set carpenters to build without tooles , as send forth ministers without their parchments : we plead not my lords , for our backs , and for our bellies , but for good books ; and furnisht brains : there are some that will seduce upon cheaper tearms , but there must be honest provision made that every minister may have a good library , or el●e the land is like to have but an ignorant ministry , and a perishing people ; again my lords , we know you would have a gracious people , to fear god , honour the king , and obey your honours ; but it is sufficiently known that a base ministry can never do good upon the people : the generall pride of man is such , that poverty is enough to bring a man into contempt , &c. as if because the pride of man specially of great men ▪ is so great that the poor mean ministers of christ are subject to be despised by them , therefore they must have a kind of pompous priesthood that may delight their daintines , and fit their vain fancies , and haughty humors : what the lords of the earth would have i know not so well as themselves , i believe they would have a learned ministry to lean to , and live at ease on , and a people to fear god as far as themselves do , among whom the fear of god hath been taught still after the precepts of the men called ccclergy ; and to honour the king , and obey their honours : but this i know , and therefore t is but flattery ( not to say foolery ) to tickle them up with talk of their great zeal of the gospel , as their fawning chaplains do , that few or none of their honours are effectually called to christ , or have ever yet honoured him so far as to honour , own , and acknowledge his truth in that primitive purity , wherein t was at first given out , partly because the ccclergy claws them too much into odd conceits , and with untempred morter dawbs them into a belief of an omnia bene in that easie gaudy gospel they sow as a pillow under their elbowes , and partly because not many of these mighty and nobles ones will stoop , when t is discovered to them , to that plainness , and simplicity that is in christ cor. . . to that foolishness of mechanick preaching , that basenesse of baptizing , that streightway of self-denying , that needlesse work of scripture searching with their own eyes , that weak nothing of christs choosing , by which to confound , and bring to nought in the end , the prudence of the scribes and wisemen of this world , whom they wonder after ; so the great king of kings and lord of lords christ jesus was not over-seen , and yet he chose such base things , and sent forth such a poor base ministry of illiterate mechanicks to preach his gospel , at the first beginning of it too , which surely he would not have done if it were his own mind , that the contempt of his ministry , which by their poverty , illiteracy , and outward basenesse is apt to arise in the hearts of the proud , should be prevented by putting the outward pomp of much earthly riches , and that low literature of this foolishly wise world upon them ? mean while i am not against a ministers having learning , let a man have as much as he will on 't , so he use it as a telent to serve the truth with , when once he he hath found , and owned it : but against that necessity of outward learning to the ministry of christ , so as to say ( as the priesthood doth ) that ordinarily a man cannot be a minister of christ without it : for verily the spirit , which onely makes a minister , blows where it lists , and doth ( for ought i see ) bestow it self now , as of old it did , * more frequently upon poor mechanicks and illiterate artizans , then learned scribes , and schoolmen . nor am i against a ministers having a library , and looking into other books if he have a mind to it , and have money enough of his own to buy them , so be he do not lose himself therein ( as the ccclergy in all ages have done ) from his serious study , and sincere search of the plain scripture it self : but i am far from desiring that poor people should be charged to fill , and furnish ministers studies with books , and their brains with notions out of other authors , that are no more to be heeded then themselves , further then they speak according to the word : nor shall i ever acknowledge such a necessity as you plead that men must needs busie their braines about abundance of other mens writings , or else cannot but be ignorant ministers of the gospel , sith the scriptures themselves are of themselves ( if the ccclergy could once consider it , or one could possibly beat it into their braines ) profitable for all things , and able to make ministers , and people wise enough to salvation , and to make a man of god perfect , and throughly furnisht unto all good works , but that they do not store their hearts ( as they should do ) with study of them onely , or at least mainly , as the primitive ministers of the gospel did , and the purest ministers of it now do : tim. . . . . i wonder what our clergy men would do to preach the gospel if there were no other books extant but the very bible , they would surely either cease from being ministers any more at all , or else make better ministers then they are . i do not speak this to excite men to make such a bone fire of all books , but the bible , as dr. featley saies iohn matthias made p. . and yet ( by the clergies leave ) i dare not say as dr. featly there saies , that t were better all those who ( in his sense ) are obstinate sectaries ( for many such are pretious saints ) were burnt at a stake , then that such a bone fire were made , for i know no absolute necessity to the salvation of men , of the being of any book in the world but the bible ; which as it was once alsufficient to make men wise to salvation , without looking into any other , and before there were many other besides it , so i know not ( sith we have them in such plainness as now we have ( maugre all the malice of the pope and clergy , who would once have made a bone fire of the scriptures ) why it is not as alsufficient as heretofore , whilst yet there was no more gospel scripture then in self : but i speak it to excite the ccclergy ( for whom i have great sorrow of heart to see their miserable neglect of , & wretched ignorance in the scriptures ) to give more attendance to the reading of them , as which are alsufficient , and onely necessary to a minister , if there were no other books at all besides them ; & to fix them that have been erratical in the misty moon shine of mens inventions , under the sun shine of that unspeakably glorious orb , i mean the scripture , which many clergy men in christndom have been so far from being skild in , that we may well conceive , that they never so much as look into it at all . sure timothy and titus , and clement and the ministry that was coetaneons , and immediately succedaneous unto them , were more pretious ministers then any are now adaies , and yet they never read sainr origen , nor saint austin , nor any of those millions of rabbies , schoolmen , and scribes that have scribled since , having learn't no more gospel then what the scriptures learnt them , for i do not think they had such libraries of books as are now pleaded for , which scripture we have as free accesse to as they then had ; and have time enough to read , and preach , and do somewhat else toward an honest livelihood too , as well as they , if we be not idle , and sith it s pleaded that their prophecying was an extraordinary gift , of the holy spirit , but preaching now is a special faculty attained not without many years study , and the constant course of it maintained by constant study : i say our prophecyings in the church , and preachings to the world too , either are or ought to be all one with theirs , or else we are not as we should be : and as no man was a minister then , but by a gift from above , so i know no man ( though dr. featly knew so many , that not one among an of the country clergy , had any tollerable gift of extempore prayer ) that is a minister of christ , but the same way as they then were viz. by a gift in some fort to make out the mind of men to god in prayers , and the mind of god to men in preaching , whether to the church in way of exhortarion , edification , and comfort ( for that was prophecie cor. . . ) or to the world in publishing the glad tidings of gods love to it , which is more properly preaching : i know no new way that christ hath chosen to make ministers in , since the primitive times , he did not make his ministers then by gifts , and now by no gifts , nor yet by new gifts , he did not make ministers then by gifts given , and now by gifts gotten , then from above , and now from beneath , then from heaven ; and now from the universities , then from meer knowledge of the scriptures , and now from a muddy minglement , and mixt messe of science falsely so called , or skill in his scriptures , and mens scriptures together ; then by a simple spiritual donation , and now by a simple fleshly dronation in the hive of such humane preparatives , as the clergy conceive the spirit to be in a manner so concerned to blow upon , as if he could scarce have their free leave to breath besides them , but as he gave then , and powred out his spirit as he saw good , and more ordinarily upon men that were not learned , and wise with the wisdome of this world then on those that were , so he does now in these latter daies , not tying himself to men , whose education is at universities , more then to others , but rather more frequently filling men illiterate , as to such science , and secular artizans then such as those . i confesse the ccclergies preaching is a faculty attained by many years study , and yet when they have been seven years , and oftentimes seven more , apprentices in the universities , they are fitter for a living then for preaching too * , but the preaching of the true ministers is no such thing . nor am i against any mans studying in order to the receiving of any good , or gift , from christ , and his spirit , and in order to increase , and growth in any spiritual gift , that christ hath freely bestowed upon them * , so their study be that of timothy , who from a child was verst in the holy scriptures , yea i wish to the lord our men in order to the ministry would meddle more there then they do , for school students are too great strangers to the study thereof , whilst they surfeit on logical and theological systems so much , as to suffer themselves implicitely to be seasoned besides the true sense of scripture thereby : but i hope the study of the scripture which may fully fit a man for good a improvement of himself in the gospel , need not claim so much honourable maintenance , but that a man may maintain himself by some other calling , and treasure them up in his spirit too in good time , by his dayly commerce with them , so as out of that good treasury of his heart to bring forth good things without much a do , and such a do as clergy men make about a text and sermon , dividing , devising , and inventing , more then freely venting the word from the richnesse of its dwelling in them , yea and so as to be like a good scribe throughly instructed to the kingdom of god , and bringing out of his treasury extempore upon all accasions , things new and old , and not be like a narrow mouthed bottle long in filling , and as long in flowing out again . though therefore there is a power to take pay in some cases for the work of preaching , yet first its good that power be not used without necessity , but you o pppriests , through covetuousnesse do much abuse that power , by using it to the utmost when yet you need not , yea though many of you have means enough of your own , and may live fully and preach freely too . . it must be upon the church only , upon the brethren , on believers , and not upon the world , nor the gentiles or unbelievers , that the church-ministers mustly , for that will hinder the receipt of the gospel very much among them , if they find it a chargeable gospel before they own it , therefore those that preached to unbelievers and infidels to convert them to the faith , went forth at first freely , for the name sake of christ , taking nothing of the gentiles . ep. iohn . . but you o pppriests receive pay from any men , all men of whom you any can way have it , as well infidels , or unbelievers , as such as are obedient to the faith , for in your national and parochial churches , there are not half , nor a tenth part of them believers , by your own confession , yea your ministry supposes them to be infidells as yet , why else do you preach to convert them to the faith , and cry out there is few of them have the knowledge of god , that they are in a damnable state , and such like ? or if you say these are not your church , then it confirmes what i am saying , viz. that you expect pay from men , whether in church or out , whether gentiles or church-members , contrary to the primitive times , wherein the ministers of christ were not maintained by the nations . . it must be every minister upon the particular flock he ministers too , and feeds , and not another flock , that are fed by other pastors , and do not chuse , nor own them to be their ministers at all , for though the messengers , whose ministry lay mostly in preaching to the world , and assisting all the churches where they came , might and did as occasion was , not otherwise , take wages of more churches then one , and sometimes of some churches ( that might be richer and more free ) to do other churches service , that might happily be neither so full , nor forward , as see cor. . . yet the scripture speaks thus , that such should eat of the flock that feed it cor. . much lesse did the pastor of one church ever take pay of the pastor of another in the primitive times . but you parish priests claim pay often of other flocks then your own ; of the people of other parishes , that you never preach to , of the gathered churches , and their ministers too , as they happen to live , or to have or use houses or lands within such or such precincts , that never own you nor never will do , to be their pastors . yea so it falls out sometimes , when one man occupies several pieces of land in so many several parishes , that if not seven , yet four or five priests take hold on the skirt of one poor sheep of christ , that belongs to some seperated congregation or other , and ownes never a one of them all to be his pastor , saying we must have so much of thee for such land that lyes in such a place ; and so you shall have several sheepheards at once at sharing time upon the back of one sheep , every one of them pretending to have some right or other to share him , when none of them all have any interest in him at all as his sheep , whilest he stands in relation to some other pastor : yea the true church may say of the clergy constreining her to pay to them , and so to serve their false church and ministry , as the spouse saith cant. . they made me keeper of their vineyard , paymaster to their priests , but my own vineyard have i not kept nor paid to my own pastors , for indeed how can they pay to these and them too ? . this is to be done gratis willingly and freely to , by the church , but not wickedly to be forced from them by a foraneous power , and by other weapons then those of the churches warfare , which are not guns , prisons ; summons before committees , strainings , trebble dammages , nor taxes from the civil magistrates , in whose nations the churches live , for no minister of christs flock did ever run to beg of the civil magistrate to force his flock to feed him , and to flea his flock for him with his cutlash , if he could not constrain him by the consideration of his love , and service , and freenes , and forwardnesse of his own accord for their good , as freely again to consider the necessity of his condition , and that is no wise in the way of tithes neither . but the parish priest will not be contented with what is freely given him by them that own him , nor them that own him not , and are none of his neither , but he will have it whether they will or no , and be his own carver too , and have the tith , which christ never alloted him to take , or rather the sixt , if it be of corn , considering the husbandmans charges of plowing , sowing , reaping , binding , and standing to all hazard ; for the parson takes no paines , but to take the cleare tenth when its ready shockt to his hands , and is at no charges at all , save barely what it costs him to carry into his barn : and this he will have by fair meanes or foul , it matters not in what ravenous , hasty , trebble dammaging , forcible , shameful , scraping , ridiculous way , so he have it . populus me sibilet at mihi plando &c. i blush to see their basenesse in this particular . . t is the ministers duty to preach constanly , to be instant in season and out of season , to do his work as an evangelist , and fulfil his ministry , and that frely , whether the church do their work , their duty to him , yea or no : yea , if from the world he be rewarded with naught but stripes , mocks , fcosss , and all the base usage that may be , yea the spoiling of his goods , yet must he preach , if he be a messenger to them : and if his flock be so poor that they cannot , or so hard hearted that they will not minister to his necessities , yet necessity lyes on him , and wo to him if he preach not , and , if he be able , help not those that are poor among them too . but many of you priests if ye have never so much meanes of your own beside , whereby you are called to relieve such poor people as you rather peel , if it be but two pence almost that you say is due from them , will have your pay , or else it may chance to cost them three times three pence , and a better penny before you have done with them , you know no more necessitie lying on you to feed them , then lies upon the people to feed you , though they be far poorer then your selves , and you better fed then they taught ; no pay no preach is your principle , so far at least that if one people give better pay , and one flock better milk then another , you are not onely under a liberty , but under a clear call also to leave one and cleave to the other . . t is the gospel he is to preach too , or else he can claim nothing at all by any order of christ , the church is not bound to maintain men , though in the name of ministers , that preach down , that preach against the gospel . but the lord will maintain a poor people in these latter daies that shall maintain it to the faces of you pppriesthood of the nations , that you have been , and still are , till you repent and be baptized in the name of the lord jesus for remission of sins , the most inveterate enemies the pure primitive gospel hath , or ever had , since you reigned , to this very day , yet for all this you must be maintained , under the notion of the ministers of the gospel , and that too in part by them that preach the gospel freely , and a thousand fold more truely , purely , perfectly , and plainly then your selves do ; whether you do the work or no , yea though you work against the gospel , yet you must have gospel wages , thus run greedily after the error of balaam for reward , though you have forsaken the right way , and are gone astray from the gospel , and are found defying , and some of you cursing , rather then building up , and blessing the true israel of god that do his will , yet following the way of balaam the son of bosor , you love , and look to have wages , and that of israel too for this unrighteousnesse pet. . iude . but the love of the wages of balaam st. iude and st. peter too makes the character of false teachers , cursed speakers : thus though you do not what is your duty to the people , which if you did christs people at least ( and from none else are his ministers to require and expect maintenance , how far they may accept it is good to query ) would be free to theirs , yet you 'l force the people to do that which is more then their duty to you , and if men put not into your mouths , which are more open to call in tith then give out truth , you prepare war : and if any say unto you or your assassinated assigns , which you send for your tith , as some said of old to the priests servants , when they came to take the priests due , or rather more then their due out of the sacrifice , before they had offered , or done their part of service , let them do their duty first , and then take for them as much as thy soul desires , but we desire them to stay , and forbear to take the wages before they have done their work , or preacht the gospel , which they pretend to take pay for , but for ought we find they preach against it , then these hasty hirelings , or the hirelings they hire to help them , like the rude servants of those wicked sons of belial , the sons of eli the priests , who made themselves vile in this kind of fatting themselves , and many more ( whose sin was therefore very great before the lord , insomuch that the name of a priest flunk , and was odious unto the people , and men abhorred the offering of the lord for their sakes ) make answer , nay but thou shalt give it me now , and if not i will take it by force , sam. . ad . . t is but a ministration of meer necessaries , and meerly to necessities of ministers that the church is bound to minister , even of them that do preach the gospel , and not to minister such superfluities as shall sink themselves , and hoise their minister up to be a son of anack , and themselves grashoppers , worth more then almost all the flock besides him , see phil. . . . . : ad . so that he shall think himself too good to lay his hands to any labour . but you the priesthood of the nations have given your selves such an universall supersedeas , and disingagement from all manner of manual occupation , and secular callings , that t is as great a wonder to the world to see you about any business of baseness as dr. feat . deems that , wherein peter , paul , and christ iesus were exercised , who were ( as to their cutward profession ) a fisherman , a tentmaker , a carpenter , as t is to see the true clergy of laicks , whom you have lorded it over , improving what god hath given them in the pulpit : and whereas paul was of opinion that t would not hinder the gospel , if the power to live on the gospel were much used , you are not of this mind , but suppose it to be much hindred if it be not made use of to the very utmost , and live at least at the length of that christian liberty : and whereas he deem'd it not a little honourable to the gospel to keep it from being onerable , and without charge , you fear there is plus oner is quam honoris in 't to your selves , and therefore do even abhorr , detest and abominate to have it meddled with by russet rabbies apron levites , mechanicks , * or to meddle at all your selves with mechanick matters , yea coachmen , weavers , felt makers , and other base mechanicks , quoth dr. feat . p. . exercise in publique churches , to the great dishonour of god , profanation of his ordinances , and scandal of the reformed churches , as if christs , and pauls , and peters being tradesmen before , and some of them after , and even while they were actually in the ministry , were an unworthy unsuitable thing , because the priesthood , who are too proud to preach , and take other pains too for their livings , are pleased to say so : yea such is the covetousnesse , and greedy mind of you the priesthood of the nations for the most part of you , that you are ever crying give , give , and howbeit some of you have too little , yet those that have most , have never enough , but are most eager after more , ier . , from the least even to the greatest of you , every one is given to covetousnesse : from the thread bare curate to the silken cassock , from the paritor to the proctor , from the parochial bishop to the diocesan , to the provincial archbishop , from the deacons to the archdeacons , deans , and their officials , parsons , vicars , curates , and all spiritual persons hanging on that hierarchy , from the classis to the aecumenical councel ; from the presbyter to the pope , by whom he stands so ( unlesse he say the magistrate made him a minister ) from the frier to the prior of his covent , to the provincial , to the general of his order , from the chorister to the cardinal , from the meanest and most inferiour frie to the whole fraternity of the spiritualty , from the parish clark and sexton to the whole priesthood , every one is given more or lesse to look to his own gain from his quarter , yea oh thou bbbabilon or tttripartite tower , and cccity , that sittest upon many waters , tongues , nations , kinreds , kings and people ( compare ier. . . with rev. . , . . . . . per totum ) abundant in treasures , thine end is come , and the measure of thy covetousnesse , thine eyes , and thine heart are not but for thy covetousnesse , and for to shed innocent blood with them that are greedy of gain , prov. . . and for violence to do it . thefore as thou entredst christndom like a fox , & reign'dst like a lion , so wilt thou die at last like a dog , and be buried with the buriall of an asse , and yet for all that they shall not lament for thee ( except such as love , and lie in bed of adutltery with thee , and shall perish with thee rev. . . ) saying alas alas , ah lord , or ah his glory , but celebrate thy funerals with the dirge of hallelujah : ( compare ier. . with rev. . per totum . . ad . oh the infinite capacious gullet , & concavity of the ccclerical coffer ! how hath it swallowed down , and devoured for ages together ( and yet is not choakt , by cryes out more maintenance , more maintenance ) without streining , not onely the gnat of great and petty tithes ( by which much more then every tenth year ( happily every seventh they being at no charge but bare taking the tenth of corn ) the profits of all christndom falls into the mouth of this caterpillar ) but also the camel of free gifts , glebes , first fruits , oblations , and other obventions , arch-deaconries , deaneries , prebendaries , bishopricks , and arch-bishopricks , and i know not how many kinds of spiritual livings , spiritual lordships , and spiritual dignities , spiritual patrimonies that are assigned for the maintenance of the ccclergie ? among whom its catch as catch can too , so that some get all ( the devil and all ) and some none , and yet some of those poor wretches that get least , get as little of god , as those that lose him altogether , and sell him for the mess of pottage , of some fat parsonage , or , as sometimes men do , whom i am ashamed to call ministers ( unlesse i mean of the pope ) for two or three fat parsonages , or special benefices together : t is a shame that for all the night is so far spent here in england , yet even here there is such endevouring for preferments still , such heaping up of more spiritual dignities , and ecclesiastical emoluments then one , and pluralities of profitable places , ingrost by single persons , and such as would be singularly accounted of too , but never will be , by wise men , had in so little as single shame , whilst they harp so much after such double honour : the pope and arch-bishops in the popish times were , till of late they grew more corrupt , complainers , and correcters of this greedy practise : alexander the third , and bishops in a lateran councel saies mr. den in a sermon of his concerning iohn the bap. p. . concluded no priests should have benefices . & . richard the costly archbishop of canterbury complained to the pope that priests in england held more livings then one : and though it hath been thought that many livings are a good step to a bishoprick , yet i have read of one john bland saith he , elected archbishop of canterbury , but refused by the pope chiefly for holding two livings without dispensation . and john pecham archbishop of canterbury made a canon that no clergy man within his province should hold two livings , what a stinking shame is it therefore that to this day there is such inhauncing , ingrossing ? for my part i am well assuted that though it be not yet , yet long it will not be before stick and stone of the whole fabrick of the tripple bbbabel , or national ministry will fall , and all their severall sorts of forced maintenances fall with them throughout europe , but first here in england , for the tenth part of the city , i. e. the clergy here falls first , yea as there have two woes to the clergy fell on them here already , which have cast out the two corrupter sorts of these spiritual men , and all their spiritual maintenance and revenues , the first whereof fell upon the flat popish false ministry viz. cardinals , votaries , friers , abbots , nuns and abbeyes , and with them all their maintenance , and the foolish forms of their false ministrations viz. their golden legend and book of false miracles , bulls , indulgences , masses , dirges , ●igintals , and other trumpery , the second upon the second part of the great city or clergy viz , the archbishops , bishops , chancellers , comissaries , dears , deans and chapters , archdeacons and their officials , and with them fell all their land , means , and maintenance , together with all their false manner of ministration viz. the common-prayer , liturgy , book of ordination of priests and deacons , homilies , and all the crutches of that lame and lazy clergy : so the third is now nigh to come upon the presbyterian clergy ( whether they see it or no ) for the face of the skies , and scriptures do both look and lour alike upon them , with whom will fall that their still pleaded for maintenance by tithes , gleabs ; parsonages , vicarages , and all their ecclesiastical profits , and emoluments whatsoever , together with all their church constitutions , synodical directories and formes of worship and government , classes , creeds , catechisms , parochial posture : yea their euphrates too is dayly drying up in the hot sunshine of the gospel , though they for the most part , scorched with great heat , rather blaspheme the name of god that hath power of these plagues , then repent to give him glory , rev. . . i say most certainly all these false national , parochial constitutions of church and ministry , babi-baptism and maintenance must down in due time , but in the mean time though i wish its fall , yet i heartily wish that you clergy were so charitable as to share the maintenance that 's yet alloted you as the national ministry , a little more evenly among your selves , and not be so basely covetous as to sherk one another without reproof , and to suffer some to have two or three livings , or if but one , yet that worth two , happily three , perhaps four , five , six , or per annum , as some livings are , and some as honest and painful , and worthy in their way , and godly in suo genere as the other , to be pincht within the income of as few scores , as the rest have ds by the year , some having but seven , some six , others but five , others four , three , two and some scarce a score of pounds to bring the year about with , and yet have not a farthing worth of help from the high flown favorites of their times : dr. featley had two livings while he was alive ( as it seems by himself in his epistle to mr. downham to whom he complaines that both his pulpits were taken from him ) but though episcopal parasites did hold no more then they could get , yet we being six or seven years past the darknesse of those times , me thinks now the clergy should cry out upon each other when they see any clambering beyond a competency , and consider the incompetency of their fellows voluntarily , whether the parliament augment one out of another yea or no : but no bubble stands higher then the rest of the water it rides on for a while , but t will break within a while and be level'd to the residue of its element , in the mean time they have enough among them if they can be contented to enjoy it in equal portions , and not fall out about the shifting it : so much is yet left , though so much already is confiscated , that moderate minded men that mean not to erre from the faith by the love of money , more then of christ , need not set up their notes to the state to administer more . i le tell thee what thou hast had , and yet hast oh hhhireling ssshepheard , within this island of brittain , nay in england which is but the one half , the whole of which is but a poor patch of about a tenth part of the rest of christndome , and this out of thy own mouth , i mean a man of thy own fraternity see helin geog. p. . . an episcopal clergy man vaunting of the greatnesse of thy maintetenance , which mouth of thine is still opening in some or other of the younger brothers of the present presbytery to this day to call out for more . the clergy saith he , meaning of england onely , was once of infinite riches as appeareth by the bill preferred to king henry the fi●t against the temporall revenues of the church : which were able to maintain . earles , knights , men of arms , more then a almes-houses , and the king also might clearly put up pounds : as they now are not so rich , so are they far more learned and of more sincere and godly carriage , wherein they give place to no clergy in the world , and for learning i dare say cannot be any where paralleld : neither are they so destitute of the externall gifts of fortune , but that they are the the richest of any ministers of the reformed churches : for besides parochial benefices , being no impropriations , and besides the vicarages , most of which exceed the competency beyond seas , here are in england . deaneries archdeaconries and dignities , and prebends all of which are places of a sur revenue . and as for the maintenance of priests , monks and friars before th● reformation , mr. camden reckoneth colledges , besides those in the universities , hospitals , . chanteries , and free chappels , and abbeys and monasteries , more then half of which had above the yearly imcome of pounds in old rents , in many above and some almost . so studious were our ancestors both in those times of blindnesse , and those of a clearer light , to encourage men to learning , and then reward it : thus far he concerning the wealth of the english clergy : so that here was no lack yet i think , but of a law that some should not sink , and the rest swim in superfluity , and hold two livings ( as democritus would weep saies mr. den , to hear some pluralists plead they do ) out of charity : it may be out of it indeed , but t is in no charity to their brethren , but oh the bottomlesse pit of the priestly purse beyond sea , where poor peter reigns in his posterity , who had neither silver nor gold in his own person act. . . of the gettings of that one great man the pope , to say nothing of the endlessenesse of his priests eagerness after money , there is no end ; nor yet weight , number , nor measure of his treasures : t would make your eyes dazzle to see it , and will make your ears tingle to hear what a deal of this ministerial maintenance is at rome , and her immediate territories , where there are no lesse then a million of officers , mendicants and others maintain'd at other mens cost , themselves disbursing not a penny . the ordinary temporal revenue of the papacy ( saith helin geog. . . ) boterus makes to be better then two millions of crownes : the extraordinary and spiritual to be wonderful . pius quintus , who ruled six years onely , got from the spanish clergy fourteen millions . sixtus the sixth took from the iesuites at one clap crowns of yearly revenue , because they were too rich for men that vowed poverty , and having sate but five years had coffered up five millions , four of which his successor gregory the fourteenth spent in lesse then a year . out of france they reap no lesse then a million of crowns yearly , out of england , when it was the popes puteus inexhaustus , they extracted no lesse then markes , which in our present money is pounds , being at that time more then the kings certain revenue . and this was in the time of henry the third , before their rapine was fully come to the height . let other countreys be rated accordingly . next adde the moneys received from the particular pardons , for d●spensing with unlawful marriages , the profits arising from pilgrimage , from greats mens deaths and funeralls , from the indulgencies granted unto abbies , and convents , in all which the popes have a share , and it would passe a good arithmetician to passe his entrado . here take the saying of sixtus the fourth that a pope could never want money while he could hold a pen in his hand , yet is their treasury seldome full , for . the state they keep because of their height of honor above all princes ; . the large allowance they give unto their legates , nuncios and other ministers ; and . their greedy desires to enrich their sons , or kinsmen with the churches lands , or money ( with which humour pope sixtus the fift onely was never touched ) keep their coffers , exceeding low . adde to this the exceeding gorgeousnesse of the papal vestments , and especially that of the tripple crown , for when clement the fist transferred his seat to avignion , we read how with a fall from his horse he lost a carbuncle ( with which his crown was thick set ) worth ducats at the least . thus he . and saith lord napier on rev. . . and note ( q ) thereof , it is more nor notorious what abbies and bishopricks from simple princes , what lands and yearley revenues from landed men , what money and goods from men of all estates hath been deceitfully stollen for indulgencies , pardons , remissions of sins , trigentals , soul masses , dirges de profundis , and other superstitions , stealing thereby not onely mens goods , but even their souls . if all this treasuring up of trash be not covetousnesse , excuse me if i know not what else to make of it : it would make me laugh ( as sorry as i am , for all such hereticizing and schismatizing among the ministers from primitive plainnesse , as hath been ) to see a clergy man stand up and tell me now , that much maintenance is a necessary means , whereby to enable ministers of christ to promote the gospell , specially if they consider how this covetousnesse hath caused the ccclergy in all ccchristendome to erre so miserably from the truth thereof after the traditions of one another , that some of the great ghostly fathers that had the greatest maintenance , if that could have maintained them in , or had not rather bewitcht them from it , did not onely turn rank hereticks but stark atheists by their sin of covetousnesse , when maintenance increased so much upon them : if either lucre or learning could prevent the corruption , or cure the ignorance of the ministry , the popes had not proved such incarnate devills as the richest , and the learnedst of them did . leo the tenth was indeed a great favourer of learning , and layer up of wealth , but so little favoured he of religion , that he was oft times heard to say quantas nobis divitias comparavit ista fabula christi , a speech , saith helin so blasphemous , that lucian , porphirie , or iulian the apostate could never match it : in his time began the reformation by luther , and t was but high time for thee lord to begin , who wilt make an end also in thine own time , for men , yea thy ministers ( for so they all call themselves ) have throw covetousnesse utterly erred , and universally made void thy law . but enough if not too much saith helin ( and so say i ) of these ghostly fathers and of their sanctities . i will ( as he does p. ) end with the painter , who being blamed by a cardinal for colouring the visages of peter and paul too red , reply'd that he painted them so , as blushing at the lives of those men , who stiled themselves their successors . i have done with the causes of his heresies and come to his design . the design of the heretick even this heretick of hereticks the ccclergy is to propagate his error , and as his grounds are wicked , so are his manners in mannaging of them , intrat ut vulpes regnat utleo , he pretends verity , but intends onely victory , that he may reign over the kings , and people of the earth , and that they might all stoop to his commands , & directions ; and under pretence of verity at first , he did get victory at last over the whole world , so that ( pape oh strange ) the whole world wondered after him , and doted upon him as their lord god , and became slaves in chains to his priestly will ; yea as he loved to be supreme , and overcome , so the lord let him for a time , that he might manifest his own power the more in the overcomming him for ever in the end ; yea power was given him to make war ( by the beast that bears him , even all nations of christendom which he overcame first ) against the saints , and to overcome them also , and so to be filled with his own inventions : he gives out when any disputes against him , that his desire is to be satisfyed by disputing , and so perhaps he would , but t is with riches more then rightousnesse , with tith more then truth , for in truth he seemes if he must meet with such as charge him with error in his doctrine of baptism , tith , forced maintenance , forcing conscience , as if he would renounce his opinions , and practises in these points , if any can prove them to be corrupt , but seeks onely opportunities to spread his odd opinions , of what schism , and sacriledge , and robbing of god it is , if submission be not acted , and tithes be not offered to him , among the vulgar , among whom his ghostly pretences produce a kind of aweful affrightment , and dread of doing any thing against what he saies ; being resolved before hand never to be convinced of the truth as t is in the word , for that overturns him in all his preferment projects , and plucks him up from all the profits of his present princely posture , which is such a right eye to him , that he hath not faith enough to believe that it can possibly be more profitable to him to part with ( though christ himself till him tis ) then to preserve and perish with it . his disciples are for the most part not such as the noble beraeans that would take nothing upon trust from the very apostles mouths , but searched the scripture dayly whether the things were so or no , not onely men , but honourable women too not a few , but rather meet idle , implicit , forefather faitht men , simple and weak women , who try nothing , but keep their church , and believe as their church believes , and as their good churchman saies , led away with diverse lusts and pleasures , leaning onely on their priests understandings , pinning all their religion upon their sleeves , adoring all that their orthodox divines deliver at a venture , ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth as t is in the word , whose honest ignorant devotions he hath won to himself by his cunning artifice of pretended piety , voluntary humility , seeming zeal to the truth , long prayers , or rather multitudes of short prayers , and praises , pater nosters , miserere mei's , magnificats , te deums , gloria patri's , per iesum christum dominum nostrums , and such like devoutries , and being once gained , are so carried on with the streme of corrupt custome , present fashion , foolish affection , that no reason in the world can reclaim them , he deterreth lay people as much as may be from reading , expounding , or too much prying into the scripture , alledging unto them the perils they may incur by misinterpretations , he hath laid his foundations so firmly in the dark consciences of men & women by perswading them of his own infallibity , ecclesiastical authority , his ius divinum in the government and guidance of the church ( as here in britain ) and even of his temporal jurisdiction too ( as at rome ) over both heaven and earth , hell and purgatory , of his power in the agony of mens souls , to forgive sin , that men and women are becharmed into beleif of him : he hath woven himself so far into their credulity , that all his sayings are received as oracles , all his doings as divine , all his traditions as truth it self , all his administrations as apostolical , all his doctrines as orthodox , all his arguments ( though confessed by himself to be weak ) as unanswerable , and all others administrations , actions , answers , arguments , though never so consentaneous , to the true sense of scripture , valued at that price which he sets upon them ; as if the holy chaire of papall determination ; episcopal convention , synodical constitution , could not possibly be mistaken : yea the scripture it self is but a nose of wax with him , of what shape soever the ccclergy casts it into , of no more authority then aesops fables with the papists , if the pope say the word , so as to disdate , digrade it , or put any part of it out of commission : of no other sense then the bishops , and synod seem to say is the sense on 't , with their good protestants , so altogether oraculous is the pope among his , the bishop among his , the presbyter among his , and even all the three several ccclergies among their three several sorts of cccreatures , that their different ipse dixits are ipso facto divine directory , and discharge enough too for these different doters on them insanire cum ratione to dote to and fro by authority , so as to do , and undo , and do , and undo , and do by . in a word he is too bold to be born down , not so much from such things as make the righteous witnesses to truth as bold as lions before god , and men , viz. the goodnesse of his cause , for that is stark naugh● , and rotten , nor the clearnes of his call either to his clerical function , or any actions he goes about by vertue , and in persuance thereof , for t is clear enough that his orders , emission , commission ( as to the external etymology of them ) are more from the pope , then christ and the true church ; nor any good answer of a good conscience , for either his conscience is so cloudy that he cannot , or so cowardly that he dares not , or so resolved that he will not see , or else so clear that he is condemned of himself when truth shines plainly upon his face : but rather from either his great interest in , or directive authority over the civil power , that hath long back as well as bellyed him , as in england , or his having it all in his own hands and dispose as at rome , where ecce duo gladii both swords are in the clergyes clutches so that he can quickly correct those that contradict him : he is too clamorous to be silenced , calling out with such a heavy noise , and divine ditty against the truth , and condemning it with such an outcry of schism , schism . sedition blasphemy , heresie , heresie , before he hath half heard it , and so soon as ever its opening its mouths to speak , that all the parish pulpits in a whole countrey ( and now and then their steeples ) ring out in such combustion , to the tune of great is diana of the ephesians act. . . that truth hath no way wherby to silence him , but to be silent her self , for when she begins to declare , he with his heresie , heresie soon stops men ears : he is too arrogant to be convinced , he hath controuled whole nations , cut of the spirit of princes , bin terrible to the kings of the earth , and devinced invincible emperors in his time , therefore may well scorn to be convinced ; abominate , detest , disdain to be directed by russet rabbies , apron levites , ministerian mechanicks , illiterate artizans , illuminated tradesmen , christ the carpenter , peter the fisherman , paul the tentmaker , aquilla , and his wife priscilla , from which kind of poor folks and babes , to whom it seems good in gods fight to preach the plain gospel , and reveal by his word and spirit what he hides from wise men , when they will not see , this prudent pppriesthood , if he were not proud , might learn more truth and gospel purity , then ever was taught him by his grand-father the pope , or any of those clerical councells , or ghostly fathers , which he consults more with then with christ and scriptures . the reason of all his obstinacy against tradesmens teachings is this , he knows that his trade of teaching for hire , and divining for money must fall , if tradesmen begin once to turn divines and to teach truth for nothing , ye know that by this craft ( quoth he act. . . &c. ) we have our wealth , moreover ye see and hear &c. he is well aware and so are we that if he lose the lives of persecution for conscience , and sprinkling of infants , iachin & boaz the two main pillars , & grand supporters of his kingdom , his temple will quickly rend in to more pieces then ppps from the top to the very bottom , and all his matchlesse magnitude , and numberlesse priestly prerogatives drop directly to the ground , viz. his lieutenantship to the prince of this world , his lordship over the heritage , his headship over the church , his dominion over the faith , his title to the tenth of every mans estate , his merchandize of slaves bodies , and souls of men , his leave to trample the holy city , and slay at pleasure the truth tellers that torment him , his rich revenues , dignity , glory , power , seat and great authority , together with all the priviledges , profits , liberties , immunities , thereunto belonging . all this his royalty must fail if he give ground but a little , and would have failed ere this time , if he had a face could blush , at his own abominable blindnesse , or ingenuity to confesse himself hurt , or own the plain truth while his lungs will serve him in reply , or amor sui constrain him to cry heresie against the truth : therefore this diotrêphes , that loves to have the preheminence over all for ever , because he hath had it for a while , receiveth not truth , but prates against it in the pulpit , and elsewhere with malicious words , and though he contradict himself ever and anon , in his own sermons , and discourses , yet if he say any thing at all , he thinks it much , when wisemen , weighing it , find it little to the purpose : tertullian thus describes hermogenes , loquacitatem facundiam existimaret , impudentiam constantiam deputaret &c. so he , when he bumbasts the pulpit , and slashes the saint schismaticks ( in their absence ) before his people , supposes he hath spoken with no small grace , when t is for want of grace that he did it , and that when he is most audacious against all reformation , as at rome , and even that he hath sometimes sworn himself , and others to , as here in england , when he finds it more crosse to his credit then he thought of when he undertook for t , he counts them fickle unconstant , that change their minds , and mend their manners , and himself only stable and constant to the ccchristian religion . hence it is that the effects of disputation with him have been not onely f●ustrate but dangerous , dangerous i say to him no otherwise then as it overturned his kingdome , that the truth of christ might take place , but to them that disputed with him in this respect , as it hath been no lesse then their pretious lives were worth once to oppose , or open their mouths against him , witnes wickliff , hus , ierome of prague , and all the executions done in queen maries daies upon such as durst dispute against the pope , or meddle against the mass , and those done in queen elizabeths upon barrow , greenwood and penry , who were hang'd by episcopal malice for professing against them , and the common-prayer , which now well nigh all england hath renounc't as a corruption , and what should have been done upon such as disputed against , or depraved the presbyterian directory , is well known , for that clergy hath shew'd themselves so much in their fathers colours , that ere long all england will renounce both it , and them : and in this respect it hath been also frustrate as to peoples conviction , for truths witnesses to dispute never so clearly against him , for as much as he hath still stopt their mouths with the stake , prison , or gallows , and kept his own wide open against them in the pulpit , when he hath secured them from all capacity of storming him there : for the common sort are apt to think those have the victory that live to speast last : and that their cclergies cause is never wrackt by the cause of christ as long as one is left alive that can speak a word in that against the other : and by how much error takes with our corrupt nature more then truth , by so much there is more danger of its spreading , where the roots i. e. the self love , vain glory , ambition , covetousnesse , pride , lordlines universality and cruelty of the ccclergy , who are plants that our heavenly father never planted , stocks from whom stemes out a stench , from whom abomination branches it self out to the corrupting therof in al quarters of the earth , rev. . . ▪ . . . are not plucked up , and rooted out : for from the priest and the prophet profanness , & heresie hath gone out into all the world , and spread it self like a leprosie , or some raging canker ; and for the most part such is the resolvednesse of the ccclergy to bind the people still to a blind obedience to their blind guidance of them beside the word ; that disputations with them if not carefully , i mean clearly , and also coolly proceeded in with love to their persons , and almost without zeal against their evils ( which yet we must not abate them an ace of for all their anger , pacem cum hominibus cum vitiis bellum ) they raise more evil spirits of wrath and divellishnesse in them then we can lay , because they see them raise more good spirits of doubts and earnest enquiries after truth in the people , who before were wont to take their ware on trust without trial , then then they can lay again while they live by all the shifts and subtleties they can devise ; for when once people are resolved to believe things to be heresie by hearsay no more , but to fancy them according as they find them in the word , and to see into the plainness of speech that is in the scripture with their own eyes , they see so much disproportion between the national church wayes , and those of the primitive churches of the gospel , that they commonly resolve not to see at all adventures through the unclear eyes of ccclergy men any more : this makes them fret and fume , and fain , and fiddle hither and thither , which way to fasten their heretical opinions further , if it be possible , on them in whom they they stick , and into whose hearts they have eaten fowl , healthless holes already , and to drive them deeper even with hammer and nailes , if they can tell how , or else to cleave whole countries asunder with beetle and wedges : heresie is said by the apostle to fret like a canker so that it is not the clearness , nor yet the coolness , nor yet the heat of a disputation can correct it in some mens hearts ; the tongue may heal any poisoned wound with licking of it sooner then that which the heretick , the pope and the priesthood hath made , so deeply hath he found his heresies in the dark cells of some mens implicit consciences , athanasius his disputation with arrius , and austins with manickaeus are sufficient instances . indeed it is not possible to expect any good fruit from those former grounds , as to the ccclergie themselves , and such of their cccreatures , as stand bent to believe all they say , and never doubt it , though otherwise much good may come to others , that are inquisitive , by disputation with them , or that he which is possessed with self love , and hunts so greedily after glory or gain as the ccclergie dots , should be perswaded to hearken to any reason , which contradicts his principles , or to disclaim that waie which must advance his design . what is the result of this discourse , to forbid all disputation with hhhim ? no by no means , it is necessary to stop the clamors of the adversarie to the truth , who will cry out victoria , if his challenge be not answered and make our s●leu●e be a confession of the truth on his side ▪ if he be not stoutly encountred with . saint austin who was in his time called malleus hereticorum , of whom it is said that he never went so willingly to a feast as to a conference when pascentins the arrian bragd that he had worsted him in his dispute , and those believed it , which desired it , yet gave not out from disputing , but was onely careful to set down his disputations in writing for the future , that the truth might appear vindicated from those false reports , with which commonly it is blasted , either by word , or else by some such true counterfeit accounts in print , as that which is at this day extant of the disputation held at ashford . a disputation orderly carried , soberly proceeded with , without heats , and distempered passions , not suffered to go out of its due bounds nor to follow every new sent , that is taken up by the way , nor to degenerate into quarrellings , and hasty fals chargings of the anabaptists as this , and that , & they know not what , without proving them such , or disproving their doctrines ( as , if others do not , i do know more then one place where , and where more then once too , it hath been so ) will contribute much to the clearing of truth the begetting of doubts ( in them that yet never doubted ) but blindly believed the contrary , the removing of doubts in them that are already in doubts about it , and putting it out of all doubt to them all in the end , that all is not so well yet as it ought to be , with the very reforming clergy , and that their parochial posture is popish , and their constitution , ordination , administrations , baptism and the supper , is all disorderly and out of joint , to the confirming of the strong , that stand fast in the true faith , the recovery of the laps't world that hath departed from the faith , gospel , baptism , church order , which was once delivered to the saints , and been seduced from christ by the scholastical incroachments of the ccclergy : and ( as it may chance in time , if the civil powers that have preferred them , would come once to favour the truth ) the convincing ●he ssseducer : it is rare so to mannage one among an unskilful multitude where the auditors take themselves no lesse engaged then their champions , and will be ready , on all hands too much , but an fold more ( for ought i find ) among the parochial party then the other , disorderly to break the lists which hath made so many able scholars not in mans onely , but in christs school also , almost averse from undertaking it ; but unless their be sufficient caution against such exorvitatances , as jangling with bells to drownd all audience of truth , and counter speeches of non-sense , rather then nothing to interrupt him that is about to speak the truth , and noise of shouting , if it were possible , to shame the truth , and such like geer as i have met with in my daies , better be no disputation at all , nor preaching of truth among such , it being ( if not a giving of that which is holy to dogs , and casting of pearles before swine , which will turn again and rent you , yet ) at least impossible any thing should come of it that good is ( and yet even that shall be no hurt to the ministers of christ , that are approved in tumults , yet cannot help it ) but blasphemy to the truth , stumbling to the weak parishioners , that stumble enough already poor souls ( the lord help them ) to see their preachers violently oppose preaching , and proving the truth out of the scriptures ; a kind of shamefull glory to the adversaries of the truth , the pppriesthood from some , a glorious shame to the undertakers for it . there is therefore a better way for the true pastors of the true churches , and specially the churches messengers to the world , in which to oppose the approach of heresies , which the parish pastors make mickle use of to oppose the truth by under the names of anabaptism , at least in their respective flocks * and that is by preaching . to argue substantially against them , to convince them soundly , is the best in the pulpit , if they can freely get in , a place wherein one might have hid ones self for a month together or more , and sometimes a year from some parish priests , non-resident parsons , divinity doctors , but specially the lazy lord bishops not very long since , but now , to keep out the anabaptists , more frequented by some priests then else it would be , a place , which is secured much , and yet not alwayes neither when plain truth tellers are in it , from those incursions to which disputations are subject . it is worth observation that neither transubstantion , nor consubstantion have so much as appeared in these days , wherin so many old heresies , as infant sprinkling for one , which as , a mad bul having its deaths blow on the forehead , struggles more then ever , are in a sort revived , and stickled for , and plyed , with new and fresh assaults , and unheard of arguments , for t was pleaded for but as a tradition mostly in times above us , as well as new ones broached . and the reason is because all ministers in these parts good and bad , true , & false even the priests themselves in their sermons provided for the sacrament have every where oppugned them , as having indeed no cleer colour in them of either scripture , common sense or reason , as neither hath infant sprinkling , if the national ministers would once wisely consider it . the learned hooker observes that in poland so many arrians sprung up because the nicente faith was neglected there , and had we baptists in our ministry of old been careful to preach for the true way of baptizing believers onely , when the baptism of infants first began to come up , and creep upon superstitious grounds into the church , it would certainly have hindred the propagation of that reasonlesse rantism , and freed the churches , that now return to the onely true baptism again , which they let go , from that simple censure of anabaptism , which now they passe under from men that take rantism to be baptism : at least our flocks in those daies , that followed the truth , had been so well provided , as that they would not so easily have departed ( as they did ) from that plain way of the word in point of baptism : felix quem faciunt aliena pericula cautum . the pastors are appointed by god for watchmen , their office is to to see dangers , and to give warning ; they are the dogs of the flock , such as the wolf would have ●●lent , w●e be to them if they barke not : na●ianzen was such an one , ( as some say ) his mother dreamed that she had brought forth a white whely , and such ( they say , for i knew him not ) he proved that the 〈◊〉 heretick durst not enter but he spied him , nor staie but he hunted him out : if he did thus , not mistaking heresie , and instead thereof hunting out truth ( as the priests do , but i hope he did not ) t was the better for the churches , he was the pastor of : but we be to the church the cccatholick aecumenical visible church cal'd ccchristndome , whose faithful pastors are gone from the truth , and turned wolves themselves , that weary the very truth it self : saint paul tells those of ephesus , act. . ▪ i know that after my departure many grievous wolves shall enter into the flock , and as he said so verily it it came to passe , for the three sorts of national church pppastors , pope , prelate , presbyter are in sheeps clothing , but indeed ravening wolves , that have devoured the truest flock of sheep that christ hath upon this earth : they are the dogs of the flock indeed , but many of them dumb dogs that cannot bark , and others barking at the sheep themselves , and others biting them with their teeth because they put not into their mouths , and tearing them , though they never teach them : yea they are greedy dogs that never have enough , looking each to his gain from his quarter : the rest of this discourse shall be partly paraenetical , to the people , partly apologetical to the priests , and so end . as to the pa●aenetical part , it concerns the advice of the pastors of the true churches to their flocks . and all people , that they would endeavour to preserve and recover themselves from all infection of heresie and schism from the primitive times , by which the whole world is gone astray , and in order thereunto they commend unto them this serious exhortation . . to endeavour to be thoroughly inst●cted in the principles of christian religion , to be houses with foundation , that every wind of doctrine may not shake them : qui huc et illuc fluctuat , quovis momentur impellitur . he that is not settled upon the true foundation , yea and that house , or church that is not built upon a right foundation , even the words of our lord jesus christ and the primitive prophets and apostles , heard and obeyed , is driven to and fro to this , and to that , and back again almost with every storm that rises , and hath a time wherein t will fall , and the fall thereof will be very great matth. . . ad . . ephes. . . . . we have experience plain enough of this in the nationall , and ppparish churches , and people , who because they are houses without foundation , or else constituted upon nothing but the sandy foundations of mens inventions , traditions , doctrines , and the prudentiall precepts of the pppriesthood , and not upon the primitive doctrines of the prophets and apostles , neither were ever perfectly , but at best in part onely instructed in the a b c , and first principles , or beginning word and doctrines of christ ( as they ly plainly before us in sixt of the heb. . . ) because i say they never knew nor owned all these , nor laid them as the foundation of their building , and church posture , but are brought into that mongrel church way they are in , by principles of birth , breeding , abode in such a town , custome , fashion , lawes of men , statutes , spiritual orders , popes , bishops , synods , canons , implicit faith , more then by cleer knowledge of , acquaintance with , conversion by the light of scripture , therefore they are wavering like a wave of the sea , tossed to and fro with every wind , and turn of tide , and driven to any thing that chances to please the princes , or that civil power best , under which they happen to be bred and born : yea as t was of old in babylon , where nebuchadnezzer reigned , all the lords , people , tongues , and nations within his jurisdiction ( saving two or three honest souls who saw gods will and served him according to it ) fell down straight at his command , and threatnings of the furnace if they did not , so hath it been in bbbabylon the new , under the three pppriesthoods , wherever they have born sway , all the people ( exceptis excipiendis , a very few that keep their standing in every turn , being built upon the rock christ , and his doctrine ) fall down , and do as they and the princes that have committed adultery with them have enjoined , yea they have reel'd to and fro like a drunkard , being drunk with the whores wine , and fell forwards and backwards , and forwards and backwards , and forwards again in the lump , and been by turns of what religion , or way soever hath pleased the powers to impose under penalty , papists , protestants , papists , protestants , popish , presbyterian , or as it happens . to love the truth and imbrace it , those that yet scorn it , and let their affections be ravished in the imbracings of it , such as have or shall yet at any time imbrace it ; so shall they be stable in it , and not soon moved from the truth . . to take heed of itching ears such as love to be gently toucht , but not plainly talkt to , that say to the s●ers see not , prophecy to us smooth things , that will not endure sound doctrine , nor any troublesome truth , that say of the words of christ , the doctrine of his baptism , that calls for self-denyal , the practise of which exposes to the crosse , censure , scorn , shame , suffering , losse of credit , custome , offence of friends , fathers , mothers , husbands , wives , &c. which whoever loves above christ , is not worthy of him , these are hard sayings who can bear them : take heed i say of such ears as love to hear some truth , but not all , that stand open gladly to any thing , but the losse of herodias , the darling lust , what ever t is , whether the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye , or the pride of life , god in his iust iudgement suf●ers such to fall . learn to be doers of the word not bearers onely , and doers of all that you know , and not some things onely , as some do ; and patient both hearers , and doers of what god , and not what man saies : temptation hardly prevails against that soul that is built upon the practise of gods commandements ; but ( as is shewed above and exemplifyed in the parish people that are so built and no otherwise , and whose fear toward god is taught after the precepts of men ) the soul that is built on the practise of mens commandements in his religion , faith , worship , is easily prevailed with to be of any religion the state pleases , as well a false as a true , as well popish , as episcopall or presbyteriall . . to beware of the ordinary converse , and needlesse society of these schismatical seducers , the pppriests , that have drawn the whole world into a deep dotage after themselves , and desperate departure from the plain doctrine of the primitive churches , and apostles , not to frequent groundlessely their popish parochial , antichristian assemblies , that say they are jewes i. e. the churches of christ , and are not , but do ly , and are the synagogue of satan : and if any of the disciples or others , think themselves strong enough to encounter with them , or if they be so indeed , yet to take heed of being foiled , and spoiled throw their philosophy , and vain deceit , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ col. . and however of offending weak ones by their example , the arguments of some , nay of all these hhhierarchian hereticks have not prevailed half so much to the perverting of the saith of so many millions of men and women , as in all ages of their reign have been perverted from the truth , as it is in jesus , as the examples of some ( shall i say ) nay of wellny all the great ones in all nations , the gentry , the mighty , the wise , the noble , not many of which can submit to own the carpenters son in the homely ordinances , mean waies , foolish and base things he hath chosen cor. . yea the kings of the earth that falling into folly , and committing fornication with this cunning women the ccclergy , were besotted to sacrifice all their crowns , and the wealth , and power and strength of their whole kingdomes to her will and to set up her waies , rev. . . . who perhaps onely for noveltie or curiosity at first , but at last after some few ages and generations , out of principles of foolish custome , and pretended antiquity have been present themselves , and not by their own example onely , but extremity of lawes , and statutes , which the saints onely in each age have smarted for the breach of , enforced others to be present at their will worships , superstitious services , extravagant dispensations , and erroneous exercises : and yet the bare example of great ones in a false faith , without other enforcement , is inforcement , great enough amongst parochiallists , and the carnal commonalty , who commonly live and believe much more by example then sound reason ; the faith of he rulers right or wrong is usually the rule of their faith , and rex sum such a convincing reason with them , as seldome receives other reply then nil ultra quaero plebeius . . not to be too rash to believe every spirit : nor to receive any more implicitly the spirit of the spiritualty the pppriesthood , no though it come ●n never so ghostly shapes , and gorgeous pretences of piety , humility , zeal , prayers , tears , &c. for she is a mystery , and this is the very mystery of the whores iniquity that she hides all her guile with a godly garb . in nomine domine incipit omne malum , saith the old proverb , and i wish that in homine domini occidat omne malum , may be a new one , if it prove a true one , i. e. that in thy fall o man of god , there may be an end of all mischief : yet surely a worse mischief to the true church sharp and , short , will arise out of thy ashes yet before the end ; false prophets mu●● come in the name of the lord as well as true ones . how gloriously did balaam profess . as austin saith of pelagius , whose doctrine he counted devillish , that his life was like a saints , so i say the sancti sanctorum of all christendome in pretence , have been in doctrine the veryest devils : alexander of ●ales writes ( say some ) of bonaventure that adam did not sin in him , and yet of all the papists none le●t more blasphemy behind him : the crocodile weeps till he hath got his prey , the priesthood won the world to it self with the name of jesus christ our lord , and then set up the trade of being lords , and lawgivers themselves , and rooted out his from off the earth . . having once found out and fallen into fellowship with the true church , that is rightly constituted upon the true foundation of the prophets and apostles , or principles of the doctrine of christ , to be stedfast and unmoveable in the way of truth , not suffering themselves to be swayed aside in any wise , by any deep devises , or perverse pretences satan of whatsoever , and in order to their standing to avoid a weak and querrulous conscience , misliking , finding fault , complaining , taking offence at every thing , where there is no cause , streining at a gnat , giving over the company of the flock for every ●ub , forsaking the assembling of themselves together as the manner of some is , seperating from the congregation , not so much for a ceremony as through a crooked and carnal conceit that t is but a meer ceremony to assemble and meet , or meddle with any outward ordinances at all , a matter in force onely for that small moment of the primitive age of the gospel , and now of no moment to us , weak worships , low things , carnal ordinances , unprofitable dispensations ; empty elements , bodily exercises , beggerly rudiments &c. like bruit beasts depraving the precious precepts of christ even those holy matters of his which they understand not the weight and worth of : these and such like have made such as of old jude speaks of , and we see so doing at this very day , to depart , and seperate themselves from saintship to sensuality , from church-fellowship in the faith to fellowship in filthynesse : thus the seeker seeks to subvert himself and others , and all that holy law of christs own giving as foolishnesse , to overturn all that is of christ , whilest christ is overturning all that is of man , he scruples every thing , till he is satisfyed to own just nothing , as if because there is some waies of error , therefore there can be no way of truth : he is weak in the faith , believing nothing to be good till he believes every thing to be so , and nothing to be bad or naught at all . and wheresoever his weaknesse is at first , it thrives into wickednesse at last , so that how ere he seems modest against the truth a while , yet after there will be ra●● censures , arrogant and bold speeches , and iudgements , condemning , or at least contemning both of good persons and holy things . thus this man runs up to ranting by little and little , circumcising away all flesh ( for so he now stiles the waies of the word and spirit ) crucifying all that flesh of christ , till he becomes welnigh as spiritual as the devil . to endeavour after the true temper of a son of the church , which consists especially in these two qualifications . humility or self denial . . charity or love : humility is a being low in your own eyes , christ bids you learn it of him . nothing hath broacht heresie and schism so much as self conceit , and self love , as is shewed above in the case of the pppriesthood , who conceive themselves to be those unerring orracles , from whom the law for religion and faith is to go forth to the people throughout the several nations , this makes men , these spiritual men especially to stand out in their own odd opinions , as if all were heresy ipso facto that jumps not with them , obstinately defend them , utterly untractable to any argument , though never so clearly urged out of the word it self , that shall be brought against them ; resolved never to yield to any iudgement , nor willingly be in , much lesse embrace any company that holds contrary to them , proudly prohibiting any ( but such as are approved of by themselves ) disdaining to be discipled by any but men in orders , as if that poor people , and those babes , to whom god delights to reveal the gospel , rather then such prudent ones , as they are in their own sight , were all as they said of old of such , a people that know not the law , and are accursed ; for which things sake the lord suffers blindnes to happen to them , & leaves them to live in error as men lea ( ing to their own understanding but true humility as she is ever conscious of her own weaknesse and darknes , so when she is most sure that in the lords power and light she sees light , and is most diffusive of it , and desirous that all others should see it also , and very zealous of promoting it , yet is she far from glorying over others , or boasting as if she had not received what she hath , much lesse is she so impositive as by compulsion , or otherwise then by plain proposal , round reproof , or earnest intreaty to inforce her faith as a rule for all people to believe by : and howbeit it submits not , as some say she does , is the judgments of others sooner then its own ( for that verily is no other then that humble ignorance , and implicit knowledge into which the pppriesthood hath beguild the earth , who as much as they perswade men to expresse their humblenesse by a voluntary submission of themselves to others judgements , yet are as far from that expression of their own humility as men can be , that would have all men see with their eyes , swear into their faith , and resign up themselves to their judgement against their own ) yet she submits her judgement ( as proud papacy , prelacy , and presbytery never did ) to such free examination by others judgements , as to le●d free leave to such as judge it wrong , and are not satisfied to close therewith , to decline and reject it , and both to believe and worship as they find occasion : and howbeit she must contend sometimes she dares not contend with any , much lesse her superiours ( as the priest does with his whole parish now and then about some trifle or remnant of tithes ) for so small a matter as a smal matter , of means , or maintenance , but for matters of much more moment , and of eternal consequence viz. that faith and gospel , which was once delivered unto the saints , , for here indeed she gives place by subjection neither to ghostly father , nor holy mother , no not for an hour that the truth of the gospel may continue , and as t is christs things she seeks and strives for , and not her own , so she assaults not without strong and evident , and convincing reason from scripture for her assertion , not such butterflies and brown paper reasons as mans tradition , y●●rs profession , nor meer internal imagination , and spiritual perswasion , which the rantizer and the ranter render : and even then too she prosecutes her cause with such candor and dociblenesse as to be ready to receive what ever is made manifest in the conscience to the contrary , without such arrogancy as appears in some divines when they dispute , who are more ready to call them sawcy fellows that dares affront their false assertions , then to clear what they hold to be the truth , and without the spirit of contradiction , that is wont to shew it self in every haughty heart , which is more asham'd to seem ignorant then to be so , most specially in the priesthood , when the truth tendred is such , as if it be acknowledged will not onely crack his credit , but certainly pare his profit also . as for charity alias love it is the very cognizance of a christian the property of it is to blow out the coals of contention not kindle them in the true church of christ , though it contend sharply with the false churches for the truth , to seek , what in it lies , to prevent , not foment rents , schisms , divisions and offences therein , contrary to the doctrine at first delivered , the love of which occasions offences in the world , it is the very rafiers that hold all the house of christ ( whose house they onely are that are built upon the foundation or form of doctrine delivered by the first apostles , the principles of which are set down heb. . . . ) together in most comely frame and order : oh that the saints and faithful brethren in christ of those churches , that walk in truth , would among all , yea and above all those pretious things commended col. . . ad . to be put on , would put on this , which is the very bond of perfectnesse ; this is that which will make them endeavour in all lowlinesse and meeknesse and forbearance , and forgivenesse of each other , to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace eph. . . . the love of the brotherhood within it self , which is hinted to us by peter , pet. . . and harpt upon more then any other string by that beloved disciple , iohn ioh. . . . . . . . . . &c. ad finum . . ad . . . . . . ep. . . ep. . is that more excellent way which the apostle paul so magnifies to the church of corinth , as that without which all other gifts , tongues of men and angels , prophecy , understanding of mysteries , knowledge , faith of miracles , liberality to the poor , exposing the body to be burned , can make a man no better then as sounding brasse and a tinkling cymbal ▪ yea knowledge puffs up , and so plucks down the true church , but love edifieth , buildeth it , and pulls down nothing but bbbabylon , cor. . . love sufereth long , and is kind , love envieth not , love ●aunteth not it self rashly , is not puffed up , doth not behave it self unseeemly , seeketh not her own , is not easily provoked , thinketh none evil , rejoiceth not in iniquity , but rejoiceth in the truth , beareth all things , believe all things , hopeth all things , endureth all things ▪ cor. . strengthneth all things , beautifieth all things , composeth all things , the contrary to which weakneth , ma●reth , ruinateth , consumeth gal. . confoundeth all things in the church iam. ● it is not apt to see things amisse more then she must needs , and if it cannot but see them , she will hid● , and rover them what she may , with a safe conscience , especially the nakednesse of her father and the shame of her mother , unless they both prove so abominably impudent and shamelesse , as like to the false , national , and parochial churches , and their ghostly fathers palpably to play the harlot under pretence of holinesse to the lord , and then she may not hold her peace , but cry out upon 't , as she will not be held accessary to their sins , and guilty of the losse of love to the lord her self : she extenuates faults in very enemies , so far as they are enemies to us onely , and not god , for she hates them that hate him , and can shew but little favour to their faults , however she will not aggravate them in brethren , it is not a light matter will work dislike in her of the brotherhood , much lesse departure and divorce : she covers a multitude of offences and will not upon such trivial ones , such meer mole-hills , as the sensualists of these times stumble at in the true churches , break forth into distemper and rage : oh where is the charity of the true church in these times ? where is the cherub that covereth ? certainly if this of love had been the temper of all christians and disciples in the true churches ( as t is pretended to be theirs in the highest by such as are gone out from them mistaking lust for love ) the breach , the rent of the ranters from the true church had not been so great , nor the wound , or separation of that schismatick so grievous : it must be a great and unsufferable crime , and that evidently proved must make charity break the bonds of peace , even that of perverting the primitive gospel , changing christs laws , and falsifying his ordinances in their forms and subjects , depraving his divine institutions , defiling , corrupting , violating , adulterating his holy will and testament , worshipping god in vain , teaching for doctrine the traditions of men : and she will not then depart by separation till she despaires of redresse , which was the protestants case with their once holy mother the church of rome , when she prov'd a strumpet , the presbyterian with their ghostly fathers , the prelatick priests , the independents with the presbyters , the baptists with the independents , and all the rest , but not the seekers case with the baptists , for they act in all things according to the primitive pattern shewed in the word : as for all the rest , viz. the po-prela-presbyter-independent pastoralty and people , they are altogether out of the way , and more or lesse corrupt and traditional in their constitutions , and dispensations to this day . . if doubts arise about the true form and right subjects of baptism go not to seducers , or parish pppriests for resolution , for they are not very well resolved about it , some saying t is of god , some of men , some that t is to be done to this end and purpose , some to that , some upon one kind of account , some upon another , as is discovered above in the re-review , they pretend at least to be seekers themselves , and pray for more light for both themselves , and their people , yet smoother it still as it rises upon them , yea many of them are so taken up with minding means and money , that they mean not to find truth , nor follow it faster , then it goes along with tith : go not therefore i say to them , that is dubius ad dubios , caecus ad caecos ( saith tertullian in another case ) for the blind to be lead by the blind yea these are the blind guides of their blinder people , whom ( having themselves forgotten christs law ) they cause to erre : these are the staff to which people trust and lean , that declare their own falsehoods instead of christs truth , these are the stocks of which they ask councel , that would have all men hang upon their mouths , and take things for truth as they come out by common consent from them ; and tell us that gods advice is , ask the priest , and so it was concerning the law , hag. . . for the priests lips should keep knowledge , and they should seek the law at his mouth , but verily as t was said of the priests of old , mal. . . ad . so may it much more truly be said now , the priests will not hear the lords commandements , and will not lay it to heart to give glory to his name , therefore god sends a curse upon them , and blasts their understandings , and blinds their eyes , and curses their blessings , because they lay it not to heart . indeed they bid us ask the priest ; as if they were very forward to resolve men , but alas , as many of them are not much minded to be resolved themselves in that point , which intrenches too much upon their interest , so much lesse are they minded ( for the most part ) in order to the resolution of others to render any reason of their way of baptism at all before their people , i have been more then either an eye or an ear witnesse of not onely the rigid refusals to answer , but also , the rough repulses that have been given by some of chiefest note in our county of kent , to such as have never so modestly propounded questions to them , or demanded an account of the truth of their practise in their publick places . and how no answer , but no answer , dr. chamberlain had from dr. gouge to this question , whether the sprinkling of infants were of god or man ? is known sufficiently to all , though it was pressed on him in three or four letters by all the rationall and christian considerations that could be possible , yea though he intreated him to return him an answer for his own sake , to return him an answer for dr. gouges own sake , to return him an answer for the peoples sake , to return him an answer for gods sake , yet how did he put him off with delaies ( as if the businesse were now dubious to himself , when as formerly he had acknowledged , that it was a tradition of the church ) and would give answer nec per se , nec per se synodum . when therefore they shall say unto you ask the priest , seek unto us , i say seek not unto them , that say they seek , but are loath to find themselves , or at least are afraid that men should find , and see all that , which they cannot clearly deny to be the truth : seek not to them that peep , and that mutter , and speak not out , as if the matter were not momentary to be mentioned , as if they were in a quandary whether it be safe or no to seek too seriously after the truth o●t , should not a people seek unto their god ? for the living to the dead ? to the law , and to the testimony your selves oh yee people , if they speak not plainly according to the word , it is because there is no light in them , isa. , . ask therefore the high priest christ jesus and if you cannot be resolved so speedily as you desire to your satisfaction and content , be content to stay till god shall reveal : in the mean time , while you doubt , suspend the practise , and do nothing doubtingly , but exercise your selves the while in searching the scripture and prayer , to which pretious practise god hath made many pretious promises in his word as namely , that they shall be undefiled in the way that seek the lord , with their whole heart : psalm . , . that if thou wilt turn at his reproof , though thou hast been a simple one , and hast loved simplicity , a scorner that delightest in scorning , and jearing at the truth , and a fool that hath hated knowledge , which all are high degrees of sin , yet he will powre out his spirit upon thee , which happily hath been thy laughing stock , and make known his words unto thee , prov. . . . that if thou wilt receive his words and hide his commaddements within thee , if thou incline thine ear unto wisdom and apply thy heart unto understanding , yea if thou cryest after knowledge , and liftest up thy voice for understanding , if thou seekest her as silver , and searchest for her as for hid treasure , then thou shalt understand the fear of the lord , and find the knowledge of god prov. . , , , , , , . yet be assured of this , humble ignorance in many questions debated in these daies by divines , and also in old time before us by learned schoolmen and casuists , and by the popish priests , that reason about the unreasonable fopperries , and refusely scum that arises out of the dead sea of their divinity , is more acceptable to god then contentious curiousity : yet not such humble ignorance about the ordinances of christ as our priesthood would hold men in , as if the law and oracles of christ , which are all plain to him that understandeth , were in things necessary to salvation so difficult , and obstruse that poor mechanicks must meddle no more in t then they have leave from them ; in facili et apecto postta est salus , the way of salvation is plain to be found in the book of god , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved : repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of the lord for remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gift of the holy spirit : but the pppriesthood hath led men the next way round about to salvation , and framed a new gospel for their followers , which scripture makes no mention of at all : but as those israelites that were led up and down the wildernesse so long god had sworne should not enter into his xest , so neither shall those christians , that , when the truth lyes plain before them , delight rather to trace to and fro in the thicket of traditions received from their after forefathers , then in the way of the first fathers of the church , and love more to wander , then to walk in the narrow way of truth , in the vast forrest , wondrous wood , and wide wildernesse of the pppriests inventions . . consider sadly in heresie the sin , the punishment , the sin st. paul places it among the works of the flesh , murder , idolatry , witchcraft , drunkenness &c. and well may , for t is onely in favour of the flesh , and for some base fleshly ends , or other that men depart from the way of truth , and not of the spirit , for that leadeth those that are resolved to be led by it , as it speaks in the scriptures , into all truth , as it is in the mind of christ jesus , iohn . the least heresie cannot be excused , the nature of it is to gather as it grows , it is to run downhil , and that 's the cause why so many follow it and so few the truth , for its an uphill , a narrow way that leads to life , therefore few find it , but facilis descensus averni the way to the bottomlesse pit is an easie , and broad descent , therefore many there be that go in thereat , even whole towns counties , kingdoms , yea the whole world ioh . . rev. . . a few onely excepted , that obey the truth , whose names therefore are written in the book of life , the heretick that hath begun it cannot stop when he will , but when once he ceases to receive and retain god in his knowledge , and the love of the truth that he may be saved , through some base love of the world , and the lucre and lust thereof , that he may be pleased , profited , preferred , a to one , but he is hardned for ever in blindnesse , god also giving him over , as well as he himself to deeper , and deeper delusion , and at last to the love of lies , more then truth : ieroboams rent turned into idolatry , and the rent of such as run from the primitive doctrine of christ is come to no less ; the rantizer and the ranter also are both sad examples to us , how fear●ul a thing it is to run away from the plain path of the word of christ , the one whereof , when he ran down once , but so far as to take upon him to mend christs ordinances , and teach for doctrine his own traditions , never left adding more and more of his own odd constitutions , till he sunk ore head and ears in a gulf of golden legends , and a lake of lies ; the other when he had once declined the scripture , and denied all ordinances , never left advancing himself into the clouds of his own airy conceits , till his waxen wings melted with his soring so neer the sun , and so he fell headlong into a sink of sordid sensuality . the punishment is either temporal , the donatists of old ( as some say ) the anabaptists as they are commonly cal'd , of germany , who , if ever they ownd the truth , abode not very long in it , are examples of gods iudgements in that kind : spiritual blindnesse of understanding , hardnesse of heart , seeing and not perceiving , hearing and not understanding , and last of all eternal the worm that never dies : christ shews all mens labour in their religion is lost by reason of it , in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrine the traditions of men ; the apostle shuts heaven against it , . gal. and twice over denounces cursing to any , yea angels from heaven , that preach any other then what they preached , and i am sure they never preached infant sprinkling , yea whoever is an heretick vel dandi vel auferendi sacu in either excesse or defect , by adding or taking away from the word , god will add the plagues upon him , that are written in that book , and take away his name out of the book of life . saint austin saith of arrius ( how true that saying is i say not , but t is an argument , ( ad hominem ) a good item however for every one that is any other way antichristianus ) that his paines are increased in hell as oft as any one thorough his heresie is seduced from the faith , therefore vae vobis scribae sacerdotes &c. last of all to mourn for the calamities of the true church , which hath for this yeares , been spoiled , and under clouds and partly by the roman empire heathen , partly by the roman empire christian been trod under the feet of tyrranical truth tr●aders , the losse of souls , the scandal of true religion , which is , and hath been every where spoken against : houses and lands , wives and children , goods and liberties , when lost , consumed , destroyed , are lamented by us , should not ch●ists losses be more dear ? and how much more the losse of christ himself ? who , as he told of that ecclipse of that primitive entercourse , which he had with his people then , by the interposition , and comming of the prince of this world between him and them , so hath now of a long time been a great stranger in all christendome : on what comfort had it been to have had the son of god walkisg with us , may the chr●stian world say , in the midst of the flames that have devoured , and wasted in all corners of it , but specially the third part of christian men , which hath been killed by the fire , and by the smoak , and by the brimstone , which issued out of the mouths of the four angels , that were bound before in the great river euphrates , i. e. the four cruel territories of the turkish empire , united all under one head , viz. ottoman the great , some years ago , and from thenceforth getting ground on this side euphrates , to no lesse then a third part of christendome , as being indeed prepared for an hour , a day , a month , a year , i. e. . years to slay the third part of nominall christians , with most inhumane mercilessenesse and cruelty , rev. . ad sinem . i say what comfort would it have been to have ●ad not onely the name , but the spiritual presence of christ preserving , for those that were consumed in that divellish devastation ? but alas the heresies , blasphemyes , and abominable idolatries of the christian nations have made him depart , and leave the men , that meerly by name are christians , to utter distress and darknesse , without either succour or support under such bloudy sufferings : those sins where not so much suffered in civil states ( for that may be ) as set up and stablished as the onely christianity to be allowed of ( as they have been by the national , antichristian , christian churches ) so that true christianity is suppressed and suffers for the sake out , and for nonconformity thereunto , are ever , and ever will be the forerunners of the removal of his candlestick , and of the destruction of the very denomination of church at last , among that people , that have a name to live and are dead . however let us ( o ye that are the true christian churches ) mourn for our own sins , those sins , which have provoked god so much to wrath against his true churches in former times , are beginning to be too rife among us , therefore why may he not justly , if we lay it not to heart in time , deal so with us as of old with them , so as to dischurch us , so as to lay open our fence , ●read down our hedge , break down our tower , and expose his vine to every beast of the forrest , let us be zealous and repent , and in secret let our souls weep for the abominations done in the midst of sion , let horror take hold on us , and rivers of tears run down our eyes because men keep not christs law ; le ts mend what we can , and mourn for what we cannot mend : and whilest , as the ranter and his rout laughs our weak works to scorn on the one hand , so the ccclergy and their clients on the other , puff at our mechanick buildings , as sanballa● scoffed at the iewes neb. . , , , saying in malice and mockage , what do these feeble folk ? will they fortify themselves against our orthodox divines ? will they sacrifice without a priest among them ? will they make an end in a day to reform , which is many a years work for a learned synod ? will they revive the stones , even the dead bones of old hereticks , out of the heaps of rubbish that are burnt ? that which they build if a fox go up , he shall even break down their stone wall ; le ts not be discouraged , nor afraid to proceed in the way and work of the lord : let them laugh , but let us weep for them , as well as not spare to reprove them , so far as we have any hope to reform them , let them curse , but let us blesse ; yea let us fast and pray , not with wednesday , and good fryday fasts , and lent'n letanies : nor with the pharisees twice a week fasts , who paid tith , and refused to submit to christs baptism : nor yet with jezebells fasts , who set honest naboath on high , and accused him of blasphemy on that day with so much the greater advantage and finer pretence , as , if the clergy did not when they obtained fasts against hereticks , t will not repent them so much another time , as some think it may yet , of those repentances : nor yet with the jews fasts , that fasted for strife and debate , and to smite with the fist of wickednesse , that hung down their heads for a day , like a bulrush ; and thought god was half beholding to them for it , because they spread sackcloath and ashes under them , though they neither loosed the bands of wickednesse , nor let the oppressed go free , nor undid heavy burdens , nor broak every yoak , nor dealt their bread to the hungrie , nor brought the poor that were cast to their houses , nor coveted the naked when they saw them , but rather hid themselves from their own flesh , and hardned their hearts against the poor , and heaped up riches for themselves , and oppressed full as much , and it may be much more then before ; shall we call these fasts , and acceptable daies to the lord isa. they are all abominable rather then acceptable . therefore let us fast as well from as for iniquity ; and what ever others do let us serve the lord : let us call for justice and plead for truth , let us not defile our hands with blood , nor our fingers wiith iniquity , let our lips speak no lies , nor our tongue mutter perversenesse , let us not hatch cockatrice egges , nor weave such spiders webs , as have been woven in the nations to entangle tender consciences in , and make the poor harmlesse flies a very prey to their malevolent intentions ; so shall we cause our voice to be heard on high , let us thus fast and pray , and with fasting and prayer , endeavour the casting out of every blind , and deaf , and dumb devil , and beseech the lord that the eyes of the priesthood , and their people may be opened to see , their eares unstopped that they may hear the truth , & their tongues unloosed , that they may be preachers of it indeed , as now they are in pretence , and in word onely and no more . christian reader , that ownest the truth , if thou beest profited , so as to discern between christs way , and the ccclergies more clearly then ever , give god the glory , for nought but shame belongs to man ; and pray for those that desire , as the conversion of others to it , so thy preservation in the truth , which oh how hard is it to abide by in these evil times of temptation from the fals churches & the non-chuches , which both seek what they can to unchurch the true , which ( thou continuing faithfully in it to the death ) shall onely lead thee unto everlasting life : but if any man will be ignorant let him be ignorant . now as to the apologetical part i say thus to you o ye priests , you are of all men the generation whose great and general displeasure i expect to fall under , and for this present works sake , to become your enemy more universally then ever yet , because i here tell you the truth : but ( as little hope as i have to be heeded by you in what i say ) i must tell you ( and the lord judge between you and me whether i speak the truth or not ) i am so far from desiring the temporal , much more the eternal destruction of any one of you , that as far as t is possible i would prevent both : yea if by the publication of all this i seek any thing next to gods glory , more then the salvation as well of your own souls , as of such as are seduced and insnared by your spiritual sorceries in wayes of false worship , heresie , and schism from the primitive truth will not the lord at last find me out ? nay verily i love the persons of you all as well as other mens ; indeed i love you too well to spare sharpness toward you , or in silence suffer you to perish , as i verily believe ( and therefore speak the more plainly to you , that by any means i may save some of you ) without remedy you will do , persisting in your wonted obstinacy against the gospel : this being the faith which god hath begotten me to , by a serious search and observation of the word and world together , the faith which he hath for some years made me to live in , and will ( i trust if he call me to it ) strengthen me to die in , rather then deny one jot of it to please men , good or bad , friend , or foe , unlesse it be discovered to me to be a false one , i must not be ashamed to professe it for fear of them that kill the body , for then wo unto me from him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell , and should i be altogether silent , as my fearful flesh would fain be , least i should prove an intollerable offence to my friends , and seem to be ( as o my god thou knowest how far i am not ) a self avenger on my foes , and expose my self ( as at no hand i desire to do , might it be avoided ) to the hatred and hard censure of you all , the light of this truth would arise many other wayes , yea the lord pleadeth it before you day by day by the tongues and pens of others besides my self , but i neverthelesse might be destroyed : i had at first illumination , and strong impulsions of spirit , not perceiving ( like samuel , who thought it had been eli that called him , and not the lord ) whether it were the suggestion of gods spirit or my own , and when at last i understood clearly that t was the lord himself , that told me he would do such a thing to the house of eli i. e. the generation of the priesthood as should cause the eares of all that ●ear it to tingle , i feared likewise to shew eli the vision , and was as loath to declare , as you opppriests are to hear the things concerning you here declared ; i was ready to say to the lord , send this message by the hand of him by whom thou wilt send , but necessity was upon me , yea wo unto me , my god had been a terrible one to me had i refused it , yea i may say as ieremy ier. . . . o lord thou hast deceived me , and art stronger then i and hast prevailed , for i said i will not make mention of this , nor speak it in thy name , but his word was within me as fire in my bones , and i was weary with forbearing , and i could not stay ; he whose face onely i seek , that i may not be deceived , the light or louring of whose countenance is more to me then the favours or frowns of all faces , hath prest me in spirit to tell that on the house tops which he hath told me in the ear in a closet : what shall befal me in so doing i know not , save that the spirit witnesseth that afflictions do every where abide me , and all those that will live godly in christ jesus , yet none of these things move me , neither count i my life dear unto me , that i may finish my race , and the ministry i have received of the lord jesus , to testifie the gospel of the grace of god act. . . if your ministry , gospel , doctrine , baptism be right , then ours is wrong , and if ever it appear we shall come back to you , if ours be right then yours is wrong , and must be declared that you may return to the truth . i know there are many things you will question ( not to say quarrel with ) me about , first , you 'l ask me why i do not for the peace sake of the church forbear , and keep my opinions in these points to myself , rather then publish them so plainly in print , as well as by word and penne , to the disturbance thereof ? to which i say , if it be the truth i hold , and matter of weight withall , it wil excuse the promoting of it self , if it were to the distraction of the church ( which is to be subject to the truth , and not the truth to her ) & also to the distruction of the world , fiat justitia , aut pere at mundus , secondly , the matters held forth here by me , which are mainly the falsness of your ministry and baptism , are , as truth , so of such consequence as to be well worth discovering , if either luther did well to declare against the pope and clergy of rome , or your selves o presbyters against prelates , deans and chapters &c. without regard to the several disturbances that were like to be consecutive thereto : yea the true subject and manner of administration of baptism , which ( when it serves your turn so to do ) you call a circumstantial matter , a ceremony for which ( if you should erre therein ) none but weak & querulous consciences will complain and separate , an indifferent thing for which why should we make so much ado ? a●g●at , not to be streind at and such like , is so necessary a matter , one of the most necessary points of religion , which those that erre in do most fearfully erre , and are totally deserted by the spirit of god , these are your own words . thirdly , you talk much ( and t is the language of the pope to your selves since you rent from his church ) of the church , and our holy mother the church , and ghostly fathers of the church , and good and true tempered sons of the church , and the peace of the church , and schismaticks in the church , &c. wherewith you astonish the vulgar , but i protest this day before god , and men , not onely against him , against whom you are protestants also , but against your selves also his schismatical sons , who own his ordinations , and still walk in some of his ordinances , viz. rantism , parochial posture &c. as those that are little lesse ignorant then he , and his good sons , of both the true church , and true peace thereof , whilst the truth , to which she should submit , is not regarded by you , and the very things that make a true visible church , and are de esse and constitutive of it , so that abstract them , and you null it viz. true matter i. e. believers baptized , and true form i. e. free and not forced fellowship , both which are so in the churches of england , scotland , italy , france and spain , are not onely wanting , but also trodden under your feet . fourthly , the peaceable way wherein we propagate these opinions , were you as sure they are erroneous , as i am that you 'l once find them to be truth , will yet excuse , and acquit us from all guilt of disturbing the peace of either the world , or your church , which is the world in reference to the true one ; and unlesse you can say the gospel of peace , which where ere it comes , occasions dissentions , is the cause of them , as in no wise it is , but mens lusts rather that rage , and take on against it , you cannot say our gospel is ; for it propounds them to the world in no other way then that , and that way was no other then bare propounding them : and as christ and his disciples did not judge them here , though they will judge them most severely hereafter , who reject their words , by the power of the magistrate , by the civil sword , by nailing to pillories , cutting off ears , slitting noses , whippings , ●ines , confiscations , prisons , bonds , banishments , fightings , fire , and fagot , the bloody wayes whereby bbbabilon hath edified it self to that height of abomination , the arguments whereby the ccclergy were wont to convert hereticks quickly from all error to dust , and ashes ; so if any man hear our words and reject them , well may we rebuke him sharply , as they also did , but we judge him not , in that way whereby the tribe of levi , that hath levied war for his lusts sake against the whole earth , hath bereft all men of peace : neverthelesse the words that we speak to him , being those that christ and his disciples have spoken in the world , the same will judge him at the last day . secondly , why ( sith it must needs be supposed there be many godly men among the ministers of the nations , though the most of them be wicked yet ) i do not except , and exempt them , when i inveigh so heavily against the ccclergy ? or why i do not rather forbear , and spare to speak so broad at all , and so generally as i do against that generation as an evill one , for the sake of those good ones , that are among them ? to which i say , first , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 godly men properly are those onely that worship god aright , i. e. according to his own will and institution , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , * which well weighed might possibly put the best men among you to your trumps to make good your title to that title , and denomination of godly by scripture record , sith while you stand among the rest , even you as well as the worst do preach , and practise for doctrines of christ some traditions of man , if you had no more enjoined you by them , on whom you wait for your instructions , then barely the sprinkling of infants , by which you make void , what in you is , the true baptism of christ. yet not denying but that there is a sprinkling of honest hearts quorum meliori luto finxit praecordia titan , whom the sun of righteousnesse , as he lightens every man that cometh into the world , hath hatcht up into a higher predicament of godlinesse then their fellowees , who are drawn up into some higher streins of devotion then the rest , i adde further . secondly , what are these littles to the lump ? what is the gleaning to the vintage ? here and there one good man to the whole corrupt crue of them , that like locusts , and caterpillars have spread themselves together with the smoak of errors over the earth in three several swarms or armies ? can some scores of well meaning priests give the denomination of an holy ppriesthood , godly ministry to those legions of them that lie in wickednesse ? you may as well say there 's a million of saints among the men of the world , therefore reprove not the world for their sakes : such as these , who out of meer simple honestly , rather then sinful sophistry and mystical iniquity do stand , and act , and argue against the true way as they do , are rarae aves , very few to the multitude of humanists , and sensual ones , and subtle subverters of the gospel ( which yet they would seem to be ministers of ) for their own ends ; by whom they are commonly so hated too so far as they have any more strictnesse and sincerity then ordinary , that they are among the other of their brethren ( as i was for querying after truth while i stood among them ) as owles and bats baited by other birds : which few good grapes were they better then they are , cannot denominate the whole vintage , as una hirundo non facit ver : bbbabilon is bbbabilon still , and sssodom is sssodom , and must be called so , though lot live in it , and he called out of it too , unlesse he mean mean to perish with it . thirdly , those good men that are there ( the mores the pitty that they are so ) ought not to be suffered nor spared , but spoke to the rather themselves , and that very roundly too ▪ for being and abiding in a bad way , and not the way it self , and those many bad men that are in it scape declaring against , as bad , because of them : there must be down-right dealing with upright men , when they are in a wrong way , and that indeed is the most upright dealing with them of all : yea sirs , you that are upon the account of these times for godly ministers , let me say this to you , for verily i have sorrow of heart for some of you of my old acquaintance , my own flesh and blood , for whose sakes f●esh in me would fain be silent , as knowing flesh in you would fain be let a lone , but i must urge you to be serious in seeing how unsafely you satisfie your selves in your present fellowship with a carnal clergy : what make you among the prophane ministry of the nations , that hath in all ages sate with such weight upon them , as to sink them into a gulf of error , so that all truth almost is heresie with them now , and under hazard of being smoothered as soon as it peepes out from under that veil of traditions , that hath covered it ? what make you keeping a court of guard among the babilonians to help to hold them in captivity still , at least in the suburbs , and by the borders of babilon , where you yet linger and loiter for all your pretences and protestations to go quite home with them , that are resolved for sion ? what mean you to stand so neer in affinity as to make one spiritualty , one spiritual fraternity with such fl●shly minded men , as the main body of the national ministry consists of in all europe ? for t is evident you 'l enter into the lists , and make head with the worst of them , even with the pope himself , against any further discoveries of truth , then will stand with your standing among them , though the lord makes out the truth more clear , and you seem in your prayers to desire him so to do : yea i am almost ashamed to utter what i see , i see preciseness and prophaness go hand in hand to keep out the true righteousness indeed . so that if i speak to the whole body of the ccclergy throughout the earth , as very often i do , yet i bespeak you no otherwise then i find you viz. whether for this or for that in particular , yet all banded in one general body against the truth ; for as herod and pilate though at enmity could yet agree as friends against jesus , so you though of never so different complexions , and constitutions , lives , and conversations , doctrines , and disciplines , forms and fashions , and goverments and gospels , yet are all friends to christs crucifying in his disciples : yea how implacably are you at odds among your selves , one sort of you being for the supremacy of the pope , another for the super-intendeny of the bishop , a third for the superstitions of the synods , others for they scarce know which , and they care not what , but as the temper of the times doth dispose them ; some rantizing infants from one ground viz. because its a tradition , some denying that , and disclaiming it as both a rotten and false one , yet romanizing still from some other , some , and those the most , more loose , a few more strict in their manners , notwithstanding all which variety , you are at unity still , i. e. at emnity against the gospel of christ. but should you help the ungodly , and love them that hate the lord ? surely wrath will be upon you with them from the lord : if you iehosophats i. e. the honest presbyters in whom good things are found , who have taken away the groves , and much more of that romish rubbish then your father asa i. e. the good old , bishops did before you , if you good iehosaphats i say , will after all this join with the wicked ahabs that trouble israel , in imprisoning the michaiahs , at least by a silent assent , and with the ahaziahs that do wickedly , so as to lay your heads together for ship-loads of gold , chron. . . . . . . . . for more means and maintenance , saying to them , we are in this point as you are , our people as your people , our parishes as your parishes , our articles of faith herein as your articles of faith , our way of maintenance as yours , and we will be with you in the warre to reduce the giliadites , the sectaries , that should be subject to us , to our obedience : your ships and all your projects , works and councels will be broken , and disappointed as the others , what ever may become of your persons : true men in a false way are out of gods protection , as well as hypocrites in a true . therefore depart ye from the tents of those ungodly men , yea arise and depart from that papistical posture of parish churches , and pastoral relation to such as are not sheep , which not christ iesus , but the pope stated men in at first , for this is not your rest because it is polluted , it will destroy you with a sore destruction ; whereupon come out from them and be ye seperate , yea come out of her come out of her , ye that are christs people ( for christs ministers you are not , though never so good men , by antichrists orders ) and partake no longer with her in her sins , least ye partake also of her plagues . fourthly , the godlinesse and honesty of mens persons doth not prove the goodnesse and truth of the outward form and way of church-order they are in , nor must hinder the overturning it if false , who will say many of these under the episcopacy were not good men ? if good men stand in a bad place , soil , or posture , they have so much the more need to be removed , as trees , and transplanted into a better : for many of you presbyters that go for godly were as godly every jot , while you stood in that false episcopal form as now , and some of you somewhat more ( for it s much to be feared that the settling of you in the same hierarchy over the faith , and chair of infallibility here in england , out of which you justled the bishops , and they but an age above removed the pope , and the enjoyment of so much of their means , hath been a means of abating much of your godlinesse , and righteousnesse too ( if ever you had any ) or else the priest surely would not so have so soon forgot that ere he was clark as to have gone about ( so high presbytery did but that god prevented him of his purpose ) so soon as ever he was gotten out of his own growning condition , and kept from the clutches of those that crusht him , to crush those that groan'd under him for the same liberty of conscience , out of smectimnus his own mouth . ) there were therefore ( if not as many good men ) yet many as good men and ( to their then light sincere souls owning prelacy , and some ( its like ) owning the papacy it self * , as may seem to be among you that now disown both , yet did not this forbid you , nor stop your mouths from using sharp invectives against their authority as usurped , their government as ill , their spiritual courts , consistories , and several sessions as spiteful to the truth , their wayes as violent against tender consciences , that could not close with them , their liturgies , ordinations , administrations of ordinances , baptism and supper , discipline , directories for worship and catechism &c. as altogether superfluous , superstitious , unlawful , and abominably corrupt , their revenues too great ( though little enough for your selves if you could catch it ) their power too absolute ( till it came into your own hands ) their synods too supercilious , arrogant , arbitrary , and impositive upon the state both powers and people ( till you had a synod of your own ) their pluralty of benefices too much of all conscience for one man ( till conscience in some of you was made wide enough to have and to hold as many cures as ever you can compasse ) and themselves an untoward and perverse generation , the whore of babilon , ( so rutherford ) and the very best among them , too bad , and much more to blame then others , for not seeing your model to be better , and for once offering to set their shoulders to the upholding of so rotten a fabrick : why therefore since your domination is the same , and your government as tyrannicall as the other , the extent of your dominions the same , for they rule but over all , and you over no more then you can subject , the subject matter of your churches the same viz. whole england , whole scotland , whole common-wealths , the whole world at once , if it would as catholikely submit to your directory , as it did once to the popes , in point of worships , and payments , at least , whether godly in their conversations or no , your parish form the same , your ministry a ministry by the same orders , and mostly of the same men , new moulded , not so much in mind and manners , as in manner of ministration according to the laws for alteration , in a word your whole hierarchy , though new suited , so far the same , that you are no lesse cozen germane to them , then they two are one unto another , why may it not , i say , be proportionably reproved , notwithstanding a number of honest and godly men among those , that are not more numberlesse , then so godlesse , that they may well say of themselves , nos numeri sumus fruges consumere nati ? . specially since the best men are by so much unworthy to be justifyed , & favored in the false form they are found in , by how much , in some respects , they do more wrong to the truth , then the very worst that are in that wrong way with them . for though the wicked ministers are the worst , both to themselves and to all others otherwise , whether popes , prelates , presbyters , or popish priests of of any kind , yet herein the best are worst , and even more injurious then any viz. as they are greater stumbling blocks to some , and , by standing still in a superstitious way , stand more in the way of such as ( living more at a venture by their example in all things then the word ) would else escape it , then prophane ones are capable to do : thus pious priests , that are adored as popes in their several parishes , more dazzle their peoples eyes from discovering the whole mystery both of iniquity and godlynesse , then dissolute , rude , proud , paultry ones possibly can , when once the gospel comes among them : yea , pope caelestinus , pope clemens , pope innocentius , pope pius , pope formosus , pope vrbanus , do more captivate their cures to continuance in crooked customes , then either leo , or helbrandus . when men in a false ministry are any better then ordinary in their persons ; though never so antichristian in their performances , yet how many are hardened to the heeding of these , as christian enough for their sakes : but when they are not onely traditionary in their services , but impious and impenitent in their lives , this renders not onely their deformation more discernable , but also reformation more desirable then else it would be ; so as corruptio optimi est pessima , the pervertures of good men are most prejuditious , if not pernitious to the truth , ex malis moribus bonae nascuntur leges ▪ the parish ministers immodest manners makes modest men look out for some better lawes and gospel . there 's one thing more i know you will charge me with ( for you ashford disputants did once before thousands , when there was ( seemingly ) lesse occasion then now , viz. that i am too sharp and satyrical , that i rail at and revile you , in stiling you an adulterous generation , antichristian , hereticall , schismaticall to which i say , first that , though some of you would have muzzled me up then , by an article , from that which you call reviling , least happily i should have unmaskt you too much , yet , in your sense , that article shall not bind me at this time ( with your leave ) for you call that reviling that is not so : would you set your selves soberly once to reason things out , i. e. to discern them properly as they are , you would find , that no man is reviled that is seasonably and soberly declared , and denominated to be but what he is : for be the titles we note men by never so grosse , yet are they but their proper names , if in all things suitable to the subject : hence ( though i can excuse your ignorance in terming me anabaptist , for that 's impropriation indeed ) yet i le more then pardon you , print me out how you will , so you print me no worse then you prove me : and as for me whatever stile i put upon you , as i do it in a serious and not lusory way , so i make it out to be your due : as also what you presbyters put upon the prelates , and you prelates upon the popedome , viz. the denomination of antichristian , strumpet , babylon , and such like , you make plainly enough appear to be their due , and therefore i cannot possibly be said properly to revile you , forasmuch as upon the self same account as you cry out upon each other and use these disgracefull and opprobious termes ( as you term them ) towards one another , i ( as justly ) cry out in the same language against you all ; unlesse you will yield to it , as i know you will not , that you are revilers your selves . if what i say of you be indeed more then the truth , i le not onely expect your contradiction , but accept thankfully your correction of me from the word ; but if you cannot from thence deny but that i call you what you are , then as you will not be guilty of overcharging your selves as well as me , you must acquit me from the guilt of reviling , for as i lend you no worse language then you lend one another in the like cases , so as i plead my innocency in it , must you plead your own else can you be held guiltlesse no more then i , but we must all be revilers togegether . when the pope challenges the prelatical party for stiling him the roman antichrist , * and the mystical whore of babylon , and the prelates likewise come upon presbytery , for making them as much babylon as the other ( for so doth mr. rutherford the scotchman * calling the two governments of italy and england , the popes and prelates lawlesse church monarchy , saying of the prelate that he could not find his father , and was ashamed of his native father diotrephes , i. e. the pope , and that the pope was his godfather , and rome his godmother ▪ and that antichristian prelacy was but spilt popery , half dyed papistry , terming them also children of babell * when also ( i say ) you of the presbytery are challenged by the bishops , and the prelacy by the popes for revilers , in the words , wherein you challenge us , and wherein paul was questioned for his term thou w●ited wall , viz revilest thou gods high priest ? you can excuse your selves no otherwise then he did , i. e. we wist not that you are gods high priests , but are assured you are rather what we call you ; even so , if you shall say to my self revilest thou the ministers of christ ? i say ( sirs ) i wist not that you are ministers of christ any more then the pope himself , i. e. as much as just nothing , for as quod efficit tale must be magis tale ( vertually at least if not formally ) so nil dat quod in se non habet , so that the roman antichrist being no true one himself , and in no commission from christ to make his ministers , could not ( secundum te o presbyter ) make those true ministers , that made those , that made them , that made these that make you , and so what ere you are ( as from him ) yet ( as from christ ) you are no ministry at all , but in very deed the very same that i cal you , viz. of the beast , and of the d●agon , as also the three fold ccchristendome ( of whom you say that they are jewes , i. e. christians , when they are not ) are no other then the synogogue of satan . in all which so far am i from reviling , that i speak the words of sobernesse , and truth , which whoever does may not unlikely be reviled as a reviler , by you , but is a faithfull reprover indeed : for it is not simply vile terms spoken that make a reviler ( if spoken both seriously and in season ) but their non agreeablenesse to them they are spoken of : for else undoubtedly not onely your selves ( who spake as vilely of the pope as i of you , but iohn baptist , peter , paul , yea , and christ iesus himself ( none of which reviled at all , though upon occasion of their enmity against god they called men ( whom else they respected well enough too ) by the name of satan * , evil and adulterous generation , generation of vipers , children of the devil , enemies of all righteousnesse , bruit beasts , foxes , doggs , swine , &c. ) must all be revilers with you too . this take therefore from me ( and let it satisfy ) viz. that i le never fasten any terms upon you , which by your works you first fasten not on your selves , yet know that persisting as you have done under the notion of christs ministers ) in pride and perversenesse against his gospel , though i should never call you deceivers , antichristian and the wwwhore of bbbabylon , yet you l prove your selves to be so in the end . now therefore oh hhharlot hear , and fear , for i have heard from the lord of hosts a consumption determined upon thee throw out the whole earth , thou hast , being well mounted , harnased , and attired upon the back of thy beast , made warr against the lamb in his saints ( thy hereticks ) for fourty two moneths , a time , times and a half , or years , and power hath been given thee , and the beast , which thou spurrest , to overcome them , and over kindreds , tongues , and nations , so that all that dwell upon earth have worshipped him , and thee on him , whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world : yea thou hast opened thy mouth in blasphemies , and caused thy beast under thee to blaspheme the name of god and his tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven , yea thou hast spoken great words against the most high , and worn out the saints of the most high , and thought to change times and lawes and they have been given into thy hand , so that who was like to thee and thy beast , who was able to encounter and make war with him ? but now behold thy proud times are ended , and the lamb will overcome thee , for he is king of kings , and lord of lords , and they that are with him are called and chosen and faithful , and thou that hast led into captivity shalt go into captivity ▪ and thou that hast killed with the sword must be killed by the sword , here is the patience and faith of the saints : and the very ten hornes themselves , even all the kingdomes of christendome , into whose hearts it hath been put to give thee all their power and strength , as well as the tith of all their glory , and riches and carnall things , upon thy pretence of ministring to them in spiritual ( all which thou hast swom upon , been born up , and fortifyed by , as babylon of old by the river euphrates , and with all which thou hast as with so many hornes of a savage beast , tossed , bruised , gored the sides of saints under the name of sinners ) even these shall now turn upon thee , and unhorse thee , yea they shall hate thee o whore , and make thee desolate and naked , and burn thy flesh with fire , so that all thy lovers great and small , and thy merchants that have been rich by trading , as in other things , so especially in bodies , and souls of men shall bewail and lament , when they see the smoak of thy burning , saying alas , alas for thee , whilest gods people that are first come out of thee , yea whole heaven , and all the holy apostles and prophets , who now suff●r under thee for telling thee the truth , and shall be avenged of thee , shall rejoice over thee at thy downfall . you will hardly give audience o ye priests to this word , but some of you rather cry out against me , as multitudes of your churches good children did some few dayes since in smithfield , when by one of the city marshals , meerly for preaching the gospel to thousands there assembled to hear it , i was betrayed into their hands to be abused , saying away with him , away with him , hang him , t is pitty but he should be stoned , and such like hue and cryes as were heard of old : others of you seers may be ready to call to me scoffingly out of your mount sier , watchman what of the night ? watchman what of the night ? but whether you will hear , or whether you will forbear , i tell you sirs the morning cometh , and also your dead night , therefore if you will enquire , enquire quickly , return , and come to the truth , before the fierce anger of the lord come upon you : or , if it may not be said , as of old it was that many of the priests were obedient unto the faith , yet oh that many of your people would know in their day the things that make for their peace , before they be hid from their eyes , and partake no more of your sins , least they partake of your plagues : but if iiiezebel and her lovers will lie in bed together , and not repent , when god gives them space to repent of their fornications ; then me thinks i hear a noise among them , as of those that are in hellish tribulation yelling out from beneath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alas , alas , whilst from above a voice of much people in heaven saying , hallelujah . hallelujah for now our lord will raign , and judge that scarlet wwwhore , who still doth fain her self to be christs spouse , and so maintain her self a qeen , the world her slaves in chain . though , like a quean , she doth the whole earth stain wi●h whoredomes , and saints blood , whom she hath slain : three ppparts , three cccrowns , three hhheads of subtle brain , a tttripple tttribe rides christndom , t is plain : and , like hells three mouth'd monster , stands to strain souls that scape thence , and bark them back again : yet , when t is told , this minx , this whore in grain frowns , frets , hates , teares , fumes , threats , storms , fomes amain : but ( iiiezebel ) wo to thy house , refrain thy pride , thy lies , thy wrath , like that of cain , thy filth , thy self , thy greediness of gain , else , as thy mirth hath been , shall be thy pain : this is told to , and by me and iohn brain , both being once of thine one children twain : thou seest , yet wilt not see this , but remain silent , least friends turn foes , and thee disdain ; but some must shew 't ( or else they see 't in vain ) through england , scotland , italy , france , and spain . amen hallelujah . * tttripartita tribus , tribulaes ▪ tribulusque triunus ; discipulis christi , triplexque tricepsque tyrannus ; trico tricornis ; trifurcifer atque triformis ; tristificus sanctis , toti ter damnifer orbi , ter decimas sapiens , capiens , rapiensque triarchus ; reges ipsa regens ipsos , super omne triumphans , te credens ( proh vana fides ! ) genus esse deorum ; rrroma o rrroma , tibi mulier formosa videris , attamenes mmmeretrix , vix ( heu ) pendenda triuncis ; viribus ipsa tuis te perdis , quo peritura es tempus adest , aderitque brevi tibi terminus ipse . dixi haud magis malus piscator ac tu , ac tui ( o sssacerdos ) estis pessimi pisces , qui , nisi resipiscamini , reiiciemini in eternum mat. . in domino viz. via domini salvetote . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * witnes the letter sent to me , in the name of more , from from one of the opponents ; which , in fuller satisfaction concerning my call to this work , is extant at the end of this epistle . * in which sad winter visitation i may not but take notice here , in satisfaction to the deluded world , how miserably i was misreported to have met the divel in a field , to have been out of my wits , and senses , stark mad , bound down in my bed , to have renounced , and that with raging , that way of the gospel , which , throw gods goodnesse , i stand fast in to this hour , of all which not the least jota is true , and this too not onely by much people , but in part also by such of the priesthood , as lived neer enough to me to have given truer intelligence , had they , or their earwigs been either of them any better then they should be . * dr. featley , dr. holmes ▪ mr marshall . mr bayly . mr blake . mr cotton . m cobbet . mr cooke . mr , symson of smardens soveraign preservative against anabaptism . mr. baxters plain scripture proofs . notes for div a -e * whose ● words in his return to mine are these viz. as for that most reverend clergy , whom in general you spatter with so much dirt , with what fingers a blind man may discern , i shall leave them to vindicate themselves , and their profession from such immerited obloquiest notes for div a -e expedias pers●ta co suum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 picasque doce as verba nestra canari . that 's the dreadfull phrase whereby you also term your selves ghostly fathers ( to awe poor ignorants into the greater observation of you and yours ) express the holy spirit , else the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might be englisht by the word spirit at all times , as well as some , both in translations , treatises , and discourses . notes for div a -e b dr. blechenden . c mrs. chute ( as she was then cal'd ) now m●s. dean d habent artificium quo prius persuadent , quam docent , veritas autem docendo suadet , non suadendo docet . tertull. as cited by your quondam friend mr. g. c. in his second letter to me . e dr. austin and dr. blechenden . notes for div a -e e infans of non fans 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f see mr. blake in birth priviledge p. . . g p. , . of the way of the church in n. england . cor , . , . . argum. h featleys dip . dipt p. . . argum. i see mr. baxter p. . . k see mr. blake p. . argum. m p. . of his grounds and ends of baptizing children . n p. . . of his grounds and ends &c. o p. . of his animad . on mr. tombes exercit. p p. . of the same book . q demonstratio est ex prioribus , notioribus , et causis . r see pareus p. . and kekerman system . log . p. . tignum est quod sei●lum sensui , et preter se aliquid animo ostendit . or r●s● preter speciem , quam i●ger● sensibus , ali●d asiquid saciens incognitionem venire . taia enim debent esse , ●t res invisibile● significent , ●i enim debent esse adminicula fidei , oportet percipi externo sensu ▪ quo movetur sensus internus , quod enim non vides non est tibi signum , qui facit signum invisibile , implicat contradictionem et facit signum non signum : res sunt invisibiles non signa , alioqui signa non possent significare res , multo minus confirmare , quia incertum confirmaretur per aeque ince●tum , hinc veteres sacramentum ita definiunt sacramentum est signum visibile invisibilis gratiae . p. . . of his reply to mr. tombs . s privatio sacramenti non damnat ●i non accedat contemptus , christus non adimi● sal●●em eis , quibus adimi●●r baptismus . t quantum damni invexerit dogma illed , male expos●●um , baptisma esse de necessitate ●al●●is , pauci animadvert●nt : ideoque minus sibi cavent , nam ubi inval●it opinio perditos esse omnes , quibus aqu● tingi non contigit , nostra conditio de●enor est quam vereris populi , quasi restrictior esser dei g●●●ia quam sub lege , venisse enim christus censebitur non ad implen●as promissiones sed abolendas , quando promissio , q●ae ●un● ante oct●vum diem , saluti confe●endae per se erat satis effi●●x , nunc absquo signi adminiculo rata non esse● . non arceri a regno caelo rum infances , quibus è prae senti vita migrate continget , antequam aqua mergi d●tum fuerit , atqui jam vi sum est fieri nou levē injuriam dei saederi , nisi in eo acquiescimus , ●csi per se infirmum esset , q●um ejus effectus neque a baptismo , neque ab ollis acestionibus pendeat . notes for div a -e * ubi vides ibi fides . where we see it is there we say it is . nati discipuli sacti nati eunuchi cas●rati x p . to mr. tombs . y p. , . of his animadv . on m. to. exercit. non cum iesu itis qui itis cum iesuitis . reason . reasonless . reason : reasonless . reason . reasonless , reason . reasonless . reason . reasonless . reason . reasonlesse . reason . reasonlesse . reason . reasonlesse . notes for div a -e a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a in eundem in quem nostra nunc intendunt scopum , et vetera illa spectarunt , nempe , ut ad christum di●igerent , & pene manu ducerent , aut ipsum potius ceu imagines representarent , ac cognoscendum proferrent , b eam promionem in evangelio datam per sacramenta nobis magis declarat deus , nempe per analogiam signorum cum rebus , quae per ea significantur , sicut similitudo declarat id , cujus est similitudo , haec enim quando intelligitur , etiam id cujus est similitudo fit perspicuum , et quidem magis quam fine similitudine , et ut vera similitudo non intelligitur , nisi analogia similitudinis intellegatur , ita nec sacramenta nisi analogia signorum et rerum intellegatur : hoc sensu apologia augustanae confessionis aliquoties sacramenta vocat picturas . x see legh . crit . sac . p. . . where he ore and ore again confesses , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●ignifies to dip plunge under water &c. primarily , and properly , p. . it signifieth primarily such a kind of washing as is u●ed in bucks , where linnen is plunged or dipt . beza neque vero 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 significat lavare , nisi a cōsequenti , nam proprie declarat tingendi causa mergere . also p. . the native & proper signification of it is to dip into water or plunge under water , joh , . , . mat. . . tanquam ad tingendū mergo causab . immergo , intingo , abluo , bucan . mergo , et tingo bullinger , proprie significat immergo , submergo , obruo aquâ zanchius , videtur copiam , abundantiam , perfectam quandam perfusionem denotare are● . notes for div a -e a witnes these words received in a late letter from two gentlemen of chichester viz. sir , the occasion of these lines is the result of a late conference viz. to desire your grounds & arguments ( in wriing ) for the continuance of water-baptism , & what you conceive required to evidence a right administrator and subject thereof . sir our end herein ( if we know our own hearts ) is to be assured of the mind of the lord christ touching that ordinance , and our duty therein , that we may walk conformably to his will &c. a acts. . . b is. . . * for ●o mark records the commission where● . mat●thewes meaning is much explaind mar. . . . go ye out into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature , he that believeth and is baptizd shall be saved &c. argu. . d for these i speake to now and not to such as are shy of the use of christs ordinances on an other account viz. a wretched conceit of such worth and weightinesse in them , that no men in the world are now found fit to meddle with them , or are admitted by christ to be administrators of them , for both these wayes doth the devil deceive men by to erre from the plain way of christs truth . e cor. . . rom. . . f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. .. . argu. . f act. . g mat. . h luk . . argum. . g mat. . h luke . . h rom. . . . i cor. . . k act. . . l act. ● . m act. . . n act. . . . . o act. . p act. . ▪ q act. . . r act. . . s rom. . . t gal. . . v act. . , , . .&c . x col. ● . . r act. . . . . arg. . arg. . * for god , whose waies limit us , not himself was somtimes better then his word , and anticipated the disciples obedience in these things so as to give his spirit beyond even peters expectation to persons before baptized and prayed for , yet did not this disingage them from doing that outward service , but the more ingage them to be baptized act. . . . . . h for its most certain that this was the will of christ , and tendred to all the world as so , & so to stand in all ages & generation● of it to the end , yea a special part of his testament as well as preaching , faith repentance , prayer and the rest , and that since as well as before the testators death , mat. . . . . act. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . after which death of the testator no man ever knew so much as a mans testament altered or disanul'd in one tittle of it , without grosse & palpable injury to the testator . x mar. . . y in which juncture of time he spake nothing to his discip●es by way of commandement or otherwise ▪ but such things as pertained to the kingdom of god , and to his church and gospel act. . . . * see mar. . , , , . the beginning of the gospel of christ , ioh. did baptize in the wildernesse , and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . * in his book called some glimps of that bright and morning starr . a mat. . . mar. . . luk. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this generation or age ( meaning wherein we see the signs of christs coming ) will no passe or be ended before all be fulfilled and ● he come . b eph. . speaking of ages divisim even all the several ages to the very end of time , and age it self to the end of all times he saies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to all ages of the world ▪ or to all ages of time of times , even for ever , c which how neer kin it is too to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that signifieth semper i , e. alwaies , every smarterer in greek may understand . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * john did no miracle yet what he spake was true , nor were any held excused that believed not his baptism to be of heaven , but those are said ●e reject the councel of god against themselves that were not baptized of him . * as if christ had administrations in force but had made no provision of administrators whereby they might be at all dispensed . * which may serve to the satisfaction of such as think that after the long cessation of tune baptism that hath been in the world there must be an utter omission , and no resurrection of it again for ever because none but unbaptized persons to begin it , for iohn himself the greatest administrator of water baptism that ever was , ei●her was not baptized himself at all ▪ or else by ●ome that were never baptized , or else by some of those which himself had first baptized , which still makes the case the same , and evidences that unbaptized persons may possibly be right administrators , and that the non baptization of the person that does it nulls not the dispensation of it to believers . * as christ also doth mar. . . saying he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved : for true , he that believeth not , whether he be baptized or no , shall be damned . * pet. . . * for he that hearkneth not to his voice in all things whatever he saith shall be cut off from among his people act. . , ● . major . minor. * for no man can of himselfe by name prove expresly that he shall be save ( the scripture promising life to neither peter nor paul by name , save as they were believers ) but onely by an inference from the scripture ; and in the ballance of right reason , comparing scripture with scripture , or by arguing in some such manner out of it viz. he that believeth and is baptized , continuing in that his faith and obedience till death , shall be saved , mark . . rom. . . heb. . . . but i believe and am baptized ; and continue in that faith , and g●d assisting will never draw back , ergo i shall be saved . no condemnation to them that walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit , so dying , but i walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit . ergo so doing , so dying , there 's no condemnation to me , and so ( consequently still ) i shall be saved , rom. . . * witnesse a paper newly extant , subscribed with . hands , and sent to my self in particular by one of the subscribers , while i am just beginning this very treatise of anti-ranterism ( which occasions a more distinct handling of this point of laying on of hands then i otherwise intended ) stiled . questions about laying on of hands ( with the grounds why they are demanded ) lovingly propounded to all those churches of iesus christ in london or elsewhere , or to any one member of the body of our lord , who pleadeth or preacheth for the necessity or usefulnesse of laying on of hands to be practised by all baptized believers . the d . query of which is on this wise viz. we desire to be directed by them unto some place of scripture ( if they know of any ) where our lord iesus christ or any of his apostles or disciples preached this doctrine viz. that all baptized believers ought to practise or submit unto laying on of hands . * heb. . . . , . act. . act. . . . , . act. . , . * because many blame and reprove baptized believers because they do not practise , submit to , or come under laying on of hands . therefore we desire to know of them , if they can tell of any of the servants of christ , that ever did reprove or blame any sort of people , whether baptized or not , because laying on of hands was not practised , or submitted to by them . * as if women were not under the promise of the holy spirit , repenting believing , and being baptized , as well as men : when as peter saies acts ● . . to the whole multitude of women as well as men , repent and be baptized , and ye shall receive the holy spirit , for the promise is to you and to your children , and them that are a far off even as many as the lord shall call : as if john baptist also did not speak promiscuously to the multitudes of both men and women , and to the women as well as the men whom he baptized , when he said i indeed baptize you with water , but she shall baptize you with the holy spirit : and if baptized believing women be under a promise of being baptizd with the spirit as well as men pro. . . then why they should not have hands laid on them , and be prayed for that they may receive it as well as the other , according to the promise , he is a wiser man then i am that knowes any reason . viz. seeing that many draw inferences and deductions , as they call them , from heb . . to maintain one laying on of hands onely , and none of them upon the forementioned considerations , neither in the end , purpose or event : therefore we desire to know whether you judge it a command of our lord christ , that any mans inference or deduction should be of a binding form in point of faith and obedience ? and because we have seen some of our dearly beloved brethren in the lord , to the grief of our hearts much offended at us because we believe not the inferences or deductions , as they call them , heb. . therefore we desire to know of them what they will refer us to as the sure rule to try inferences or deductions by , because the best of men are liable to mistakes ? * witness his reproving and threatning of lost labour to those that so do , mat. . . x john. . . . . . ● . . . * act. . . . . . * act. . . cor. . . eph. . . heb. . . pet. . . jude . * for there was a certain form of christs doctrine delivered by the apostles to persons as from him , which they were to obey , and after obedience unto which ( and not before ) they were counted unto christ , as now his servants , which till they had obeyed they were counted none of his , but unto sin , as its servants , standing in several particulars , whereof its most evident that water baptism was one ( for obedience in baptism , and obedience to that form of doctrine delivered are both urged as arguments and ingagements to the romans now to reckon on themselves , or from thenceforth , i. e. their obedience thereunto as ( in foro dei , hominum , et ecclesiae ) christs servants that had formally owned him ) and whether the rest viz faith , repentance , laying on of hands , belief of a resurrection and judgement , which are heb. . all called the foundation which was at first to be laid altogether with baptism , called by the name of the form of doctrine rom. . . which was at first to be obeyed by every beginner in christs school , is worth our serious considerations . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heb. . . * & so the enquirers seem to me to do while they teach men that as yet have not , that they need or ought not to submit to prayer and laying the holy spirit , and unteach such again as have been targht it , till they disown that first principle of the doctrine of christ after they had once , even practically owned it . * who would ●ain be our own carvers , and either have such visible gifts , as some call them , as he was pleased to give them , or else we will be blind , and not see , not believe , though we see it , that he gives any gifts of his spirit now at all ; * john . . gal. . . john . . r m. . . cor. . cor. . . eph. . . eph. . . a eph. . . b act. . . . c prov. . . joh. . , . luke . . act . . * iohn did no miracle but all the the things which iohn spake of this man are true . joh. . . iohn . except ye see signs and wonders ye will not believe . iohn . . thomas because thou hast seen thou hast believed , but blessed are they that have not seen and yet believed . herod hoped to have seen some miracle done by christ , but he would not so much as answer him , luke . . . he did not many mighty work there , because of their unbelief mat. . . lord why could not we cast him out , iesus said because of your unbelief . ● joh. . . ●●f his fulaes we have ●ll received grace for grace iohn . . . . cor. . . the communion of the spirit be with you all : gal. . . cor. . . god who hath given us the earnest of his spirit . ephes. . . . in whom after ye believed ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise , which is the earnest of our inheritance &c. whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption ephes. . . * if any doubt it ( as some do , and say prophesy is a gift of speaking infallibly by revelation from god , as t is spoken of cor. . . the . . . . verses of the same chapter confute him , where prophecy , as it is determined to be a far more eminent and profitable gift , and greater and more desirable then tongues , which is so talkt on , so it is defined to be no other then speaking to exhorration , edification and comfort ; and also v. . . . where it s said , you may all prophecy one by one , and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets , which shewes t was no gift of speaking infallibly , but only preaching , because it s supposed that they may be out , and erre in their prophecy , and must submit to correction , in case they do , from the other prophets : obj. ans. ob. ans. * which i much marvel at sith this objection supposes a continuation , or resurrection of that same ordinance of laying on of hands in the last daies , after a whiles waiting for administrators : but the questions subscribed to , are all or most of them such as suppose the enquirers to be much in the dark and in doubt about it , what kind of laying on of hands that is , that 's called a doctrine of christ heb. . . whether ever such a thing was , or is ever to be dispensed to all baptized believers &c. as if they could not tell almost whether there be , at least appointed by christ , such a manner of administration . * viz. seeing we are denied communion by some of those churches , or by some members thereof , who hold the necessity of all baptized believers to practise , submit to , or come under the laying on of hands . therefore we desire them to acquaint us what we are commanded to say , or do , that we may be found faithful in that point ; or otherwise , to be discovered disobedient unto a command by the word of god , which is the onely director here , and that which shall be our judge at the last day . * which is the wise query of some also , and as learned a question as if one should ask , whether at the supper we must put the elements to our mouths with the right hand or the left ? or in baptism ask , how the baptizer must handle the person baptized , and where he must take hold on him , when he dips him ? and if he have not expresse scripture concerning such nicities and trifles as these , suspend the dispensation of both the supper & baptism , because christ is somwhat short in his word , not expressing punctually enough , how his ordinances shall be dispensed , nor what is to be said and done by persons at the doing of them , so distinctly as they would have him . but foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strises tim. . . p viz. seeing there be many that do desire baptized believers to require that hands should be laid on them . therefore we desire of them to shew us some place of scripture ( if they know of any ) that doth expresse such a behaviour either of the administrator , or the person on whom hands were laid . * ( for such a behaviour as to reprove their backwardnesse , and summon men to shew their forwardnesse to own christs wayes may become any administrator whatsoever act. . . ) * viz. seeing many plead laying on of hands to be practised or submitted unto as a foundation , principle , or a beginning doctrine of christ and that by all baptized believers . therefore we desire to know , if any of them can inform us , which of all these layings on of hands forementioned is called by christ , or his apostles the foundation , principle , or beginning doctrine , by some text in scripture . * if it be not somewhat an improper phrase to stile wicked men in their wrathful and cruel handlings of the saints administrators of any doctrine of christ that is stiled imposition of hands , as to me it seems to be , unlesse wee l allow the name of an administrator also to the devil himself , when he tempts the saints , and puts forth his hands against them to smite them with any mischiefs in either body or spirit , as by gods permission he did job , job . . job . . . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 luke . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heb. ● . * viz seeing that heb . . speaks of the laying on of hands as plural , as the doctrine of baptisms , and doth not speak of any one laying on of hands fore-mentioned particularly , nor of any other by distinction , neither of any end , purpose , or event . therefore we desire to know what safety it is for any man to conclude that heb. . . is meant but of one of them onely . † see mr blackwoods last book newly extant even whilest i am writing to you on this subject stiled a soul-searching catechism p. in p. . . . . . . of which he treats totally of this subject . * viz. mr. cotton & dr. holm● , who ( as is shewed above in the , , . pages of this very volume i am yet in hand with ) borrowes cottons and calvins reading out of antiquity concerning the practise of imposition of hands to all grown persons before admission to church-fellowship wherby to prove infant-baptism , which thereby he rather breaks the neck of . * viz. mr. cotton & dr. holm● , who ( as is shewed above in the , , . pages of this very volume i am yet in hand with ) borrowes cottons and calvins reading out of antiquity concerning the practise of imposition of hands to all grown persons before admission to church-fellowship wherby to prove infant-baptism , which thereby he rather breaks the neck of . * consisting of sorts of christ'n creatures , under a sold ccclergy viz. papal , prelatical , presbyterian . * yet some ranters are not ashamed to say they are christ , and god , and there is no other god then they , and what 's in them , and such like blasphemies , whereby they declare themselves to be that generation , that are to rise in the latter daies , and make the man of sin , even that wicked one that shall exalt himself above all that 's called god , saying of himself he is god , given over to strong delusion to believe lies , that they may be damned , because not receiving the love of the truth , that they might be saved , whom the lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming thess. . denying the lord that bought them , and bringing on themselves swift destruction . pet. . . * viz. touching of dead bodies num. . . eating or touching the carcases of any forbidden fishes , birds , or beasts lev. . . . diseases as the leprosie , lev. . . running of issues levit. . . and such like . * for if he that despised moses law died without mercy , of how much sorer punishment shall he be thought worthy , that hath troden under foot the son of god , heb. . . therefore we had need to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard , least at any time we let them slip , for if the word spoken by angels was sure and stedfast , and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward , how shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation , which at first began to be spoken by the lord , and was after confirmed to us by them that heard him , heb. . . . ▪ whosoever shall be ashamed of me or my words , of him will i be ashamed when i come in the kingdome of my father with my holy angels , mark. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * as indeed i find thee to be of the whole scripture , which though paul bids timothy give attendance to the reading of tim. . . tim. . . . . yet thou hast left off to read , disswading others also from the reading of it , as unprofitable , as no other then the writings and inventions of men , to keep the world in awe , so that it cannot come to enjoy that liberty ( alias license for lewdnesse and fleshly lusts , which thou promisest , and pleadest for ) and that makes thee to be such a weather cock , such a well without water , such a wandring star as thou art , such a cloud tost to and fro with a tempest , because thou hast no steady rule to steer by , no whither goest thou to talke with , or to take heed to , to recall , or to fix thee to any one point , but onely the whifling , multifarious fancies , and foolish figments of thy own aiery brain , and unconstant spirit . * isa ▪ . , . eze. . . pet. . , * heb. . . notes for div a -e * all which will fall to the share of the silken snapsack to carry in the end . * see how mr. baxter defines him out of bullinger p. . hereticum cum dico intelligosectarum authorem qui ecclesiam scindi● &c. when i talk of an heretick i mean an author of sects , who rendeth the church , who pertinaciously proceedeth by false and erroneous doctrine to infring● & trouble the unity of the church , and out of viguerios , hereticus est qui relicta fide et ecclesiae doctrina alicujus temporalis commodi gratia , et maxime gloriae falsas et novas opiniones gignit , vel sequitur , ut vel fi● maneat ab ecclesia divisus . * such words as none of you parrish pppriests in ccchrist'ndome do , can or ever did preach in , for if your people ask the priest what they must do , you say repent , but be not baptized , yea take heed every one of you that at any hand you be not baptized . * dr. featley p. . * for tent makers such as paul was to make the gospel chargeless , you are mostly too proud to be . † sine qua christianismus non constat , saith calvin . * calvin inst . lib . c . s. . verbi e● sacramentotum ministerium nobis perpetua tessera digno scendae ecclesiae . * divsion , * which whether in the antitype it be not that woman the ccclergy , by whom the kings of the earth have bin ( as ahab by the other ) stirred up to all mischief against the the truth , may be seen mo●e clearly rev. . * witness the case of iohn sawtrey , the first english martyr , of whom we read thus , viz. that arundel archbishop of canterbury first denouncing him an heretick , in the name of all his fellow brethren the bishops , and of the whole clergy condemning & digrading him from his priestly orders , from all his priestly honors , & in token therof taking from him , as he was a priest , the patent , and chalice , the authority of saying masse , the casul and vestment ; as a deacon , the book of the new testament ; as a subdeacon , the albe , and maniple ; as an acolite , the candlestick and taper ; as an exorcist the book of conjuration ; as a reader the book of the church legend [ of lies ] as sexton the keyes of church door , and surplice ; and then rasing his crown , and putting the cap of a lay prrson on his head , delivers him up to the secular power , saying pray be favourable to him , who after burns him ( being called on by the bishops ) in the city of london . * whether the magistrate be the minister of christ , as god onley , or as mediatour also , i mean god man ? is a question , about which i find some fill the world with a world of confusion ; viz. mr. gelaspie and mr. rutherford , who are together by the ears about it ; and mr. baxter also , who makes much more ado then needs p. . &c. to prove that christ exerciseth some of his government , as mediator , by ministers , and some by magistrates , by which if he mean that magistrates are officers in christs church , of christs appointment , i pitty his blindness , when i read eph. . where its shewed what officers christ sets in his church , for the edifying and establishing thereof : if he mean that the magistrate is christs officer , and ordinance to the worldward , for the government of it under him , and of the church too ( as t is a part of the world , so far as he doth yet administer in the world , and judge it ) i will not greatly deny that , howbeit that he ( as man ) yet judgeth the world , and ( as mediatour ) governs it , as once he is to do , by appointment from the father , acts . , at his appearing & his kingdome tim. . . when he shall put that power in full execution , for which he hath now but the commission , when he shall return personally to set up , and rule in that kingdome , which he is now gon to heaven to receive , luke . . . . &c. when the prince of this world , ( for so christ himself , who is prince of the world to come , is pleased to call the devill now john . . who is dominus fac totum here by permission , and rules over kings , princes and people by the beast , and whore that rides it , rev. . to whom he hath given his seat , power , and great authority rev. . . ) shall once be judged , and bound up in the bottomlesse pit from domineering over , and deceiving the nations any more , that christ i say yet judges the world as once he is to do , when the kingdome appointed by the father to him in reward of his for them , and by him to his disciples in reward of their sufferings for him luke . . is come , this i utterly deny ; nay rather he is yet in his saints an underling to the civil powers ; the miserable ignorance of which time wherein christ shall take unto himself his great power and reign , and be de facto , as he was de jure before , king of kings , and lord of lords , makes the divines so dote as to interpret that place isa. . . of kings being nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers , and bowing down , and licking the dust of the churches feet , and a hundred more as fulfilled now , in this his day of small things , in this his personal absence , which , when the divel is blind at least , and bolted up in the bottomless pit rev. . they l surely see are not in esse actuali till then ; and to suppose magistrates to be now christs chief church officers supremely under him to rule in it ; when as , were they not already blind themselves , they could not but see it to be contrary unto truth , for women may be magistrates , but not church ministers , and may be supreme in authority in a state , as queen mary and queen elizabeth , but are bid to be under obedience , and fordid in church matters so much as to speak , much more to usurp authority in the church , tim. . . . cor. . . . viz. in refusing to be judge , in matters of faith and religion . * for custos et vindex ut ciusque tabulae under the gospel ▪ because it was sounder , that typical standing of the law , is but a tale , and a trick of our priests whereby to curry ●avour with their princes : the truth is that whole jewish state ( which was also a church as no one whole nation under heaven now is ) was a type and both the kingly , priestly and prophetical office that then headed that church , were typical of that tripple true head of the gospel israel , christ jesus , and are no more to be drawn in as an example so as to argue more warrantably from the kings then to the civil rulers now then from the high-priesthood to the popedome . * my petition to the powers on behalf of the church is that it may have as much peace , and as little preferment as they please , for ever cum ecclesia peperit divitias , filia devoravit matrem . y two spritualties , whereof ( as bad as the first is ) the latter will be more sensuall then the former , having not the spirit jude . though pretending to it more supremely then the other , under which last the devil now acts , as under a new vizard , to the deceiving of people from the way of truth , perceiving his old vizard worn so thin , that all men begin now to see through it . * luk. . . . * witness the iesuites , that may kil kings if hereticks , & the northen presbitery , that may lawfully fight england , if it receive not their directory : and the episcopal war against the state : * so iulius the second , who seeing himself vanquisht , ●hrew away saint peters keyes , into the river tyber , protesting he would thence forth help himself with s pauls sword : * the contrary to which where ere t is well may men submit out of fear till they can help themselves , but never out of love while the world stands , for conscience is a tender thing , and though but a worm , yet if trod upon wil turn again , * howbeit they shall never want flatterers to perswade them that they are . abj. ans. * vid. tho. beacons reliques of rome , set forth cum privilegio . pope servitius ordained that hereticks should be banisht an. . fol. . pope pelagius the first , that all hereticks and schismaticks should be put to death by the secular power , provided that the bishops in their spiritual courts do first prosecute , convict and condemn them for hereticks , and then commit them to the temporal magistrate to dispatch them out of the way by fire , sword or halter , for they say as the chief priests to pilate , it is not lawful for us to put any to death . in the councel of lateran by innocent the third , patriarchs arch-bishops , bishops , twelve abbots , priests , the legates of the greek and roman empire , the embassadors of spain , jerusalem , france , england , cyprus , it was decreed that all hereticks and so many as should in any point resist the catholique faith should be condemned , that the secular power of what degree soever should be compelled openly to swear for the defence of the catholique faith , and to the utmost of their power to root out and destroy in their kingdomes , all such persons as the catholique church should condemn for hereticks , and if any king should be a heretick , or defender of them , and not reform within a year , then his subjects should be absolved by the pope from yielding any further subjection or obedience to him , or keeping any fidelity with him , and so t was in the case of john here in england , who resigned to the popes legate his crown , kissing his knee as he came into england ( which john was after poisoned by a monk , who having his pardon from the pope , poisoned himself first , to poison the king ) and also that the pope may give that land to catholiques to possesse peaceably and without contradiction , all hereticks being rooted out of it . obj. ans. * sam . * which he hath more faith then i that believes they ever will for surely the ccclergies win all or lose all will pull them down at last . * es. . . to the . . to . rev. . . . . . * for howbeit it was the roman civil power in potius pilate passing sentence , yet it was the priestly malice that caused him to be crucified , or else pilate had released him : & so its princely power , but pppriestly malice crying out crucifie him , crucifie him , that hath caused him under the gospel be crucified in his truth , and saints , or else many of the civil powers would release him . * rom. . . pet. . . magistrates are called the ordinance of god as the materiality of the thing we call government is of him , the ordinance of man as to the particular form of government viz. whether it shall be by kings , parlia . &c. and also the particular persons that shall execute that form is altogether in choice of the people . * act. . . . . * se supra p. . * for that name [ clergy ] however by themselves improperly impropriated to themselves , as if they onely were the [ heritage ] of god , for that 's the plain english of that anglico-greek word [ clergy ] yet in plain truth pertains properly to all christs people , and that in contradistinction too from the ministry , for the spirit speaking of the elders and pastors of the church , charges them not to lord it over the heritage , i. e. in other location not to domineer over the clergy pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. we see therefore god calls the flock , and not the sheepheards ( muchlesse the sheepshearers ) by the name of clergy ; but the pope ( as if he had projected purposely to betheeve gods people out of all their priviledges , and rights , leaves them not so much as their own proper name to be known by , but bestows the name of [ clergy ] upon the creatures of his own creating , and leaves them the name of laicks in its stead , telling them , when they begin to charge his ccclergy with impropriation of preaching , and pay to themselves , that they are but a clergy of laicks , see featleys epistle , but to say the truth excepting some few of his sons of the episcopal and presbyterian cclergy ( that are come from him two wayes , viz. by dissent , and descent ) who may be honester , and wiser then the rest ( and yet are not so wi●e as to know their own father ) the rest are mostly a ccclergy of lazicks , or lazy locusts : in like manner hath he ingrost other titles to himself , and his ccclergy , all which the scripture gives to all christs people , as namely that of spiritual men , as if all the world were but natural , at least but temporal men besides themselves , thus the bishops were called lords spiritual , and other lords , lords temporal : so that of priests , see the book of common-prayer , and of ordination of priests and deacons , whereas these are titles afforded by the spirit to all the saints of god as well as some . cor. . . pet. . . rev. . . . . yet i call them by these names , because these are now the most common names , whereby they are known , or else properly i cannot call them by these , nor by any other names , whereby they commonly call themselves : i cannot call them the spiritualty , for not one of many of them hath any spiritualnesse in him : i cannot call them divines , for they are rather humanes , if they have their due , whilst they teach gods fear after mens precepts , and for doctrines the traditions of men : i cannot call them the tribe of levi , for levi though he took tith according to the law , whereof he was the priest , in the loines of abraham paid tithes to the person of that high priest that we are under , viz. melchizedeck , or the king of righteousnesse christ iesus , but these are so far from paying tithes to christ , that they most grievously gripe his people , if they pay it not to them : i cannot call them ministers , i. e. servants of christ , & of the church , for they are rather lords and masters over his heritage , unlesse servus servorum , and dominus dominorum may stand together : i cannot call them pastors , or shepheards , till i can own their parishes for christs sheep , for if we denominate them by the general temper of their people , they profess to stand pastors too , they seem to be swinheards rather by their people swallowing in the mire : i cannot call them presbyters , or elders though some of them be seniores annis , unlesse they were saniores animis then they are , for they are not yet sound , nor orthodox in either their judgements , doctrine or practise , so long as they are against the truest baptism , and abide unbaptized : i cannot call them preachers of the gospel , for they preach down that gospel , which was at first preached , concerning christs dying for the sins of the whole world : i cannot call them bishops or overseers of christs flock in the spirits sense i. e. in respect of their care to take heed to , or feed it , but overseers in another sense rather i may properly stile them , for verily christs flock is so little and low , poor and plain , mean and base , hated and dispised , and themselves so lofty and high minded , that as not many noble , and mighty , so few or none of these wise men after the flesh can stoop or look so low as it is , and so ( for the most part ) they oversee it : and lastly if those be the true clergy and priests of god , that are obedient to his word , ( as the scripture saies they are ) the ccclergy need not find fault ( as they do ) with the mar-priests of these times , for in very deed the ccclergy , pppriests , and presbiters have been the truest priest-biters , claw-clergies , and mar-priests themselves . * rem enim indignam esse putant &c. saith calvin inst. li. . c. . . . they deem it a disparagement that they should be made to answer in their own personall causes before any civil magistrate , and suppose both the liberty and dignity of the church i. e. the clergy , to ly in an exemption from the common seats of judicature , and their laws : but the bishops of old , who were otherwise strict enough in pleading the priviledges of the church , did judge it no disgrace either to themselves or their function to subject themselves to civill powers . * whose work lay mostly in reading service in old time , till the gospel came again to be p●eached in these latter daies . act. . . to . * who saw some truth in their daies , wherein t was twilight , but not all that is now to be seen , for though i reverence the men ( as i do every man , that sees truth as far as it shines clearly in his time ) yet luther left much truth unseen to himself , behind him , and some of calvins●nstitutions ●nstitutions too are none of christs . * for verily these starrs for their light of learning ( as dr. featley confesses p. . . ) have been the authors , devisers and broachers of heresies ; yea peruse ( saith he ) if thou please all the antient heresies listed by epiphanius , austin , philastrius , alphonsus a castro , ambrosius de rusconibus , and others , and therein thou shall find the ring-leaders great clerks , and accute sophisters , whence is that true observation of tertullian , philosophi hereticorum patriarchae , philosophers have been the great grandfathers of hereticks . nahum . thy crowned are as the locusts o king of assyria , apollyon in the antitype . * of which chain of succession of ministry , if but one link fail , or chance to be lost , so that it meets with interruption , you confesse , all your ministry lies on the ground too , and cannot at any hand be counted valid or raised again : and yet if there was not a breach of that line in the link of pope joan ( aliâs gilberta an english woman born at lin , who was both literally and mystically the whore of rome , and therefore far ( i wot ) from being a true presbyter , or minister of christs church , in which women are forbid to usurp authority ) then my understanding failes me not a little . * who by austin the monk dispatcht an ordination hither ( with resolution about infants viz. that in case of necessity they might be baptized ) by which ordination men have ever since bin authorized to ordain here and such as have been ordained to baptize . * for the civil magistracy may reside in women ( as is also shewed above ) who though by pope ioanes example they may yet by pauls rule they may not usurp authority in the church . * for now that 's put down also , as to the present session , as every power will be , and that suddenly and with shame , that puts down others for tyranny , covetousness , unrighteousness , self settlement in greatnesse , and delay of justice to poor people that cry for it in these latter daies , and yet succeeds them in the same sins , and in such security as to say , populus me sibilet , at mihi plaudo ipsa domi simulac nummos contempler in arca. * i mean take tith , for you pay none , * of which you have the fift not the tenth , if the husbandmans charges be all considered . * if you were not blind your selves , you would gather thus much from that , viz. that while men are blind they sat under your ministry , but when once they begin clearly to see , they can see no ground to sit under you any longer . * nicholas the first was ( i think ) the first that prohibited the clergy marriage , saying that it was more honest to have to do with many women privately then openly to take one wife : insomuch that a priest of placentia being accused to have a wife and children , was deprived of his benefice : but proving the said woman to be the wife of another man , and his concubine onely , he was again restored helin p. . * that there should be dipped disciples , at the first beginning of them too , shall be no article of my faith , who find an increase but to a few s of such here in england , under no lesse then seven years talking of this truth , and find men more refusing to be baptized at all in truth , then forward to be baptized ore again : yea in this english sectarian army of anabaptists , as it s termed by you priests , who have a habit of naming all men anabaptists , whether baptized or no , that are up in lawful armes for the civil rights and liberties of the people , against those priests and princes that have destroyed them , t is to be feared there 's not one of an did ever own christ so far yet , as to be baptized . * qui intravit ut vulpes , reg navit ut leo , morieb a●ur ut canis : came in a like a fox , reigned like a lion , & dyed like a dog. * o monstrous ! is dotage come upon our doctors now in the hight , that apollo is the true god with them , and his oracles , which by christians were ever counted the devils , gods oracles , and the spoiling of his temple the spoiling and rifling gods church , and the ruin which ( machinatione daemonis say historians themselves that write it ) fell on them that attempted it the curse of god for this sin of sacriledge and robbing god of his due ? so it should seem , for defining sacriledge to be a robbing of god , a rifling of his churches , stripping religion of her neces●ary dresse and decent rites and ceremonies , and asserting that god will curse with strange curses those that are guilty of it , his first instance is the revenging hand of god on xerxes for medling with the temple of appollo . surely these men who have so high an esteem of the god appollo , and his temple , would have had the like of appollo's sister diana the great goddess of the ephesians , and her temple , whom all asia , and the world worshipped act. . . and counted paul a sacrilegious fellow in dispising her magnificence , and turning away people from her worship , as demetrius did , who got his wealth by her standing , had they been alive at that time : yet this is the doctor we are sent to for furniture with knowledge of the truth by you ashford accountants . * alias , the great gawdy building , that was there in as much veneration as pauls church in london is , ( for that is the church with some , whom a stone church , and wooden priesthood , pleases better then a spiritual house of living stones , and spiritual ministry in it . * built by queen helena , who ( if you consult the story ) in no lesse superstitious devotion , then they the vessels of the temple , did consecrate the temple it self to the honor of christ , pueri sacer est locus extra meiite . * alias the holy habitations of the most abominable holy fryars , who no question fryed in the fire of holy wrath and rage , to see their holy cloisters and chappels sacrilegiously prophaned to civil uses , which by them , and their lady abbesses were wont to be made use of ( saving their holy superstitions ) to nothing but uncivil and unclean . * for then by my consent they shall be counted sacrilegious too , that shall ever happen to be spoilers of the tripple crown so mr. bayly , and mr. bax● . featly p. . . also featley and pagits title pages . * helin p. * see bay. ep to the read. also feat . in his epist. to the read and p. . * sae featleys epist. to the read. * helin p. * parva est vobis cura linguarum , minor artium , minima pietatis . were most of you as little learnd , as good , a pealcod shell might make you gown and hood . * hang out your lights here , your new lights quoth he , scoffingly , who in pride prints himself capape , captain generall of all the presbyterian forces in england , &c. viz. dr. b. * sir henry wotton . cice● . . de nat deor . causes . * after the overthrow of the exarchate , the emperors now neglecting italy , the romans began now to be governed by the advice & power of the popes : pepi● and his son charls having overthrown the lombards gave unto the popes the exarchate , vrbine , ancona , spolero , and many other towns and territories about rome . act. . ▪ . act. . . . . cor. . . ad . so . . . cor. . , . thes. . . thes. . , , , , , , . * witnesse albert archbi . of mentz , who being at the diet at ausbourge an. . & finding a bible on the the table , & reading some leaves thereof where by chance he opened it , said , truly i know not what book this is , but this i see it makes all against us : * magister artis ingenii que largiter venter docuit negatas artifex sequi voces . * tim. . . . * featly p. . design . effects . * see the last clause of the first part of the ash●ord pamphlet p. . mr. wilson williamson . * mat. . . * witness luther himself , who , though he wrote bitterly against indulgences , yet durst not detract ought from the chair of his most holy father leo , see an epistle of his to pope leo the th . * see dr. featleys dippers dipt see dr. helins geography , where speaking of pope joan , he calls her both the literal and the mysticall whore of babylon . see dr. featleys dippers dipt see dr. helins geography , where speaking of pope joan , he calls her both the literal and the mysticall whore of babylon . * see rutherfords presbytery , in the epistles dedicatory & to the reader . * one of the three parts , rev. . . of the great city bbbabylon , viz. the pope and his carnal crue of clergymen , the prelate found out , but ( in nostris talpae in alienis linces sumus ) was so pittifully purblind at home that he could never find out a second : the second part of that babylonish wwwhore , which are the prelate and his priesthood , the presbyter found out , and began to cry out upon them also as an harlot , but , standing so much in his own light that he cannot see himself for himself , and cannot see wood for trees , to this day he cant hit upon the third , but even that also , which is the presbyterian clergy , is in tyranny so like the rest , that the name babylon will appear upon their foreheads too within a while . * the term christ used to peter for his subtle selfishnesse , immediately after he had honored him with the name of peter mat. . where the actions are satanical , the reproof cannot be too satyrical to whom soever . see brain 's babels fall . * nos rustīci haud cū●ămus quantītătem syllābō●um . felo de se, or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism / gathered out of his own writing, in his second disputation of right to sacraments by john tombes. tombes, john, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing t ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) felo de se, or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism / gathered out of his own writing, in his second disputation of right to sacraments by john tombes. tombes, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed by henry hills ..., london : . imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. eng baxter, richard, - . infant baptism -- early works to . baptists -- controversial literature. a r (wing t ). civilwar no felo de se. or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying; manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism, gathered out of his own writing tombes, john d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion felo de se. or , mr. richard baxters self-destroying ; manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism , gathered out of his own writing , in his second disputation of right to sacraments . by john tombes , b. d. psalm . , . so they shall make their own tongues to fall upon themselves : all that see them shall flee away . and all men shall fear , and shall declare the work of god , for they shall wisely consider of his doings . london : printed by henry hills , next door to the sign of the peacock in aldersgate-steeet , . to the christian reader . master richard baxter in his second disputation of right to sacraments , begins thus ; it may seem strange that after . years use of christian baptism , the ministers of the gospel should be yet unresolved , to whom it doth belong ; yet so it is . and i observe that it is a question , that they are now very sollicitous about , and i cannot blame them , it being not onely about a matter of divine appointment , but a practical of such concernment to the church . the true reason hereof seems to be , that ministers have for many ages left the true baptism of believers which christ appointed , and like michal , instead of it have substituted an image or idol of their own , to wit , infant baptism , which being quite besides the rule of christ , matth. . . mark . . and the apostles practice throughout the acts of the apostles , they have been at a loss about the ground of it , and almost at daggers drawing about the use of it . as it happens to fellow-travellers , when they are all out of the right way , one conjectures this way they should go , another that , and sometimes they are at hot disputos and contentions about their way , and many by-ways are attempted , yet still the farther they go the more out of the way , till they come into the road again : so it hath been with baptizers of infants ; they are fallen into many new devices to maintain infant baptism , the ancients with the papists imagining that by it gods grace was given , and that it was necessary to save the child from perishing , the lutherans that by baptism a seed of faith and some relative grace was given to infants ( to which doctor samuel ward , bishop davenant , doctor cornelius burges , master thomas bedford , master james cranford , and others have of late much inclined ) others opposing these have fallen into as bad conceits of the covenant of gospel grace , as made to a believer and his seed , baptisms succession to jewish circumcision , and fetching a rule from thence , as others from the jewish baptism . master baxter having found these unsafe to rest on , sub they will bring the assertors to the avouching jewish tenets , hath devised another ( as he conceives ) more refined and subtile way , making infants disciples of christ mediately by the parents , or proparents ( as his new term is ) faith ( which he never proves ) and an imagined ordinance or law of infants visible church-membership ( no where extant ) unrepealed , and in following these by-ways , they have been at variance among themselves . tertullian , and gregory nazianzen onely allowing infant baptism in case of manifest danger of imminent death , others to take away original sin , baptizing all , weak or strong , believers or unbelievers children ; which had almost quite thrust baptism of believers out of the world , and under colour of christening , ( as they fasly term their infant baptism ) and making christian souls by throwing water on them , they have so polluted the churches of god with the dregs of the nations , i mean , innumerable ignorant , scandalous , prophane , superstitious haters , scorners , and persecutors of christianity , that nothing but the mighty power of god is sufficient to purge the churches of god of that loathsome and infectious filth , which these have brought into it . the papists themselves do in a sort confess that infant baptism is an aberration from the first rule , in that they count it not perfect till their mimical , and ludicrous sacrament of confirmation be added , which was used with some reformation in respect of the right , and disclaiming of some errours affixed to it , and with the appointment of catechizing by the late bishops , and from them termed bishopping , though without any remarkable emendation of the intrusion of ignorant , ungodly , unchristian persons into the society of christians and the lords supper . some of those who of late have sought reformation herein , begin to devise how they may remedy this evil , and yet keep the multitude in their communion , by refining that which is called confirmation . to this purpose , lately is published by master jonathan hanmer , an exercitation or confirmation , to which master george hughes , master richard baxter , and master ralph venning , have prefixed their epistles ; concerning which , how he is mistaken in the laying on of hands used by the ancients , and the application of heb. . . to confirmation after infant baptism , is perceptible by sect. . of the second part of my review , and sundry passages in his own book , in which many things besides are vented without proof , about difference between the church of infants and adult members , of the effect of confirmation , of compleat and incompleat visible church-members , &c. the errors of which it is unnecessary to refute , there being no proof of them offered , but his own and other divines mistakes , and the main of the design being to set up another humane inventi●n , which hath no precept or promise of god , that he may uphold or colour over an old corruption . it pleased god lately to begin to bring the truth concerning baptism of believers to light in this nation , which stirred up many to contend for infant baptism , and having , as they imagined ( though the three parts of my review now published do sufficiently shew they are deceived ) made that sure , they have of late fallen to dispute whose infants are to be baptized . mr. thomas hooker , mr. cobbet , mr. firmin , and others , pleading against the baptism of the infants of the national and parochial church-members , and some of them restraining it to infants of inchurched church-members , and those who are judged to be real visible saints , have been opposed by master rutherford , master cawdery , master blake , and others . master blake to maintain his tenet , hath asserted that a dogmatical faith intitles to baptism : to oppose which , master baxter , however in his letter to me he pretends the unpleasantness and non-necessity of meddling any more about the point of infant baptism , the want of time and health for work of greater moment , that he might decline ●●●●ing where his law of infants visible church-membership unrepealed is , and thinks a man cannot justifie it to lay out the hundreth part , or perhaps the thousandth part of his time , study , talk , or zeal , upon this question , yet here he blames not them that are sollicitous about it , being of divine appointment and practical , of such concernment to the church , and hath himself , besides his apology before this last year , published a large book of disputations concerning right ●o sacraments , the second whereof is against master blake ; which though it was intended onely to overthrow his tenet , yet indeed the middle terms and proofs of his arguments do beat down his own tenet of infant baptism , and direct into the right way of restoring believers baptism , to demonstrate which , that those who have adhered to mr. baxter may see how ill master baxter hath dealt with them , and may , if god give them wisdom to discern the truth , be brought into the right way of believers baptism , is this writing framed , in which thou hast presented to thee , a remarkable instance of gods providence , in clearing truth by the pen of its most eminent adversary , and of his he●●●le●● writing , not observing how his own arguments against another sight against himself . the urging thereof , is that way which logicians●●prove of , and against the person is ever counted a good plea to argue for his own condemnation out of his own mouth , and in this matter is good as to the thing , it being not onely asserted by him , but also largely proved . in the publishing hereof the●e is no more wrong done to him , then was done by bishop morton in his apology , in aliedging the romanists words in their writings , as an advoca●e for the protestants , against themselves , but much right to the truth and church of god ; nothing i●●ere set down as his but his own words , what is added be may discern'd by the different letor some other mark . his caution , that he means his propositions in the case of baptism of adult persons , and that he hath elsewhere proved infant baptism , are without wrong to him left out , sith his arguments do as strongly prove there should be none but adult baptism , as that none should be baptized upon the profession of a bare dogmatical faith ; for though his aim be onely to prove that the faith professed which intitles to baptism must be justifying , yet his arguments to prove this prove more , that none but such as profess such faith are to be baptized , and that this profession is to be by each baptized in his own person , and no other to be baptized . not one text he brings proves that a parents or proparents profession doth intitle to baptism ; what he hath disputed elsewhere for infant baptism is all now answered and published in the three parts of my review ; no where doth he prove ( though that is it be should chiefly have proved ) that in order to baptism a parents or proparents profession is by god allowed as the infants own , but still be supposeth it , which is the main point to be proved , which logicians know is of all fallacies the grossest , to wit , the begging of the question . yet lately master baxter hath printed a book about confirmation , in which he dictates many things which he should prove , of infant visible church-members and their priviledges , and repeats his ol● arguments for infant baptism , and acknowledging onely his sorrow for provoking words , saith he will give some account , and in his preface to his book of justification tells the reader , he shall yet vindicate his papers written to me , where he gives some reason also of printing my animadversions on his aphorisms of justification . his sorrow for his provoking words is some good sign of gods touching his heart , and so far as belong to my person i heartily forgive him , though they have been extreamly injurious to me , to the tr●th and church of god . and for my animadversions he hath now printed , he may understand that i intend ( if god vouchsafe me life , and strength , and leisure ) to shew the insufficiency of his answers . if he give an account and vindicate his papers , i expect he should do it otherwise then he did in his praefestinantis morator , and his usual fashion is . let him do that which becomes a replicant , set down mine own words to which he answer , and answer them fully and distinctly without interrogations & exclamations , proving such distinctions , definitions , assertions , expositions , as i deny , and making good by solid proof his arguments , which that learned man mentioned in my preface to the third part of my review counted not like an argument for infant baptism , and allows me to tell him , that if he will choose his best argument , he is ready to demonstrate his censure of his book to have been just . in the mean time i judge it necessary that this book be printed , that if god shall vouchsafe him such mercy he may understand his error from his own writing , and the reader may judge whether the lord doth not now abundantly refute infant baptism , and require him to practise that command of christ of being baptized after believing , which however now reproached , was by all christians observed heretofore with much zeal and conscience of their duty and honor , and is commended to him from christ and his apostles . remember the words of christ , john ▪ . if ye love me keep my commandments . luke . . and why call ye me lord lord , and do not the things which i say ? matth. . . in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men . farewel . london , th . moneth , the . day , . thine in our lord , john tombes . felo de se. master baxter of right to sacraments , disp. . pag. . argum. . if we must not baptize any who profess not true repentance , then must we not baptize any infants ; but the antecedent is true . therefore , &c. the consequence of the major , is manifest , sith this proposition on which it depends , infants profess not true repentance , is manifest by sense . the antecedent is easily proved from scripture , and i know not whether any protestant deny it . i prove . that repentance , . and such as is proper to the effectually called is necessary to be professed by all that we may baptize ; i will joyn the proof of both together . argum. . if john baptist required the profession of true repentance in men before he would baptize them , then so must we : but john did so , therefore the consequence is clear . . for either john● baptism and christs were the same , as most of our divines against the papists do maintain ( though zanchy , and some few more follow the judgement of the ancient doctors in this ) or as calvin institut , saith , the difference seems to be but this , that john baptized them into the messiah to come , and the apostles into the name of the messiah already come . . or if the difference be greater we may argue a fortiori , from the more forcible : if johns baptism required a profession of repentance , then much more christs ; for certainly christ required not less then john , not did he take the impenitent into his kingdom whom john excluded . the antecedent i prove . . from mark . , . he preached , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins . and doubless that repentance which is in remissionem pecatorum , unto the remission of sins , is true special repentance . one of our divines , and many of the papists have sound another evasion : that is , that john did engage them to repent , but not requiring a profession of repentance as foregoing baptism ; but this is against the whole current of expositors , ancient and modern , and . against the plain scope of the text . the words in matth. . are [ they were baptized of him in jordan , confessing their sins ] this confession was with , yea before their baptism ; and this confession was the profession of repentance that john required . maldonate on the text , having first railed at calvin and slandered him , as turning baptism into preaching , ( as if he had expounded johns baptizing , not of water baptism but preaching , when he onely shews that both should go together ) doth tell the protestants that they cannot prove by this text that confession went before baptism , because it is named after ; but that he might not seem utterly impudent , he confesseth that the thing is true , and that is the sense of the text , and this he confesseth because he must rather be a faithful expositor , then a subtile adversary . and if any should say that it 's onely confession that 's required , which is no certain sign of true repentance , i answer : when john saith ▪ if we confess our sins , he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins ] he to●k that confession to be a sign of true repentance , and our expositors and the ancients befor them agree , that it was such a confession as was conjunct with a detestation and renouncing of the sin , and it is expounded by that of acts . . as grotius noteth , to have a special detestation of the sin accompanying it , where to the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is added {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , confessing and shewing their deeds . and it may suffice that the baptism to which this confession was required , is the baptism of repentance . but it is objected that in the . vers. of matth. . it is said by john [ i baptize you with water to repentance ] therefore it is but an engagement of them to it for the future . answ. our expositors have fully shewed that this signifieth no more , but [ i baptize you upon your present profession of repentance , to newness of life ] for that this profession did go before is proved already , & then the rest can be no more , than the continuance of repentance and exercise of it in newness of ●ife , which they are engaged to for the future : onely if any falsly profess it at present his own confession is an engagement to it as a duty . grotius saith , that [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} potest non incommode exponi hoc modo , baptizo vos super professione paenitentiae quam facitis , unto repentance may commodiously be thus expounded ; i baptize you upon profession of repentance , which ye make . the plain meaning is in a word [ i do by baptism initiate you into the state of repentance , or of penitents ] but christ shall give the holy ghost ( as it was poured forth ) and so ( as pelargus speaks in matth. . against salm●ron ) we maintain johns baptism to be effectual , being the baptism of repentance to remission of sin : and that it was true repentance that he required appeareth further by the fruits of it , that he calleth from the ph●ri●ees , matth. . , , , . lastly , i shall prove anon that god hath not appointed us to baptize any upon a promise of repentance or faith , before they profess actual faith and repentance , nor are they fit for such a covenant . argum. . for the proof of the necessity of a profession of repentance before baptism , is this : if jesus christ hath by scripture , precept , and example , directed us to baptize those that profess true repentance and no other , then we must baptize them and no other : but the antecedent is true , therefore to is the consequent . all that requireth proof is of the antecedent , which i prove from an ●numeration of those texts that do afford us this direction ( besides the fore-mentioned . ) . jesus christ himself did by preaching repentance prepare men for baptism , end for his kingdom , as john before began to do , matth. . . so matth. . . the kingdom of god is at hand , repent ye and believe the gospe● ; and to that end he sent his apostles and other preachers , mark . . acts . . luke . . repentance and remission is to be preached to all ●●tions in his name ▪ and baptism which is for the obsignation of remission of ●●n , according to the appointed order , comes after repentance . and when it is said by john . [ i baptize you with water to repentance , but he shall baptize you with the holy ghost ] matth. . . mark . . luke . . it implieth that christs baptism comprehended johns and somewhat more . in acts . , . when the jews were pricked in their heart ( which was a preparatorie repentance ) and said to peter and the rest of the apostles [ men and brethren what shall we do ? ] peter saith to them , repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins ] so that we must require and expect true evangelical repentance to be professed before baptism . for verse . it s added [ then they that gladly received his word were baptized ] so that he baptized none that to outward appearance did not gladly receive that word , which could not be without a profession of that repentance . and he that hence perswadeth to repent and be baptized for remission , doth in the next chapter , verse . require them to repent , and be converted , that their sins may be blotted out , shewing what kind of repentance it is that he meaneth ; and as the work of general preachers to the unbelieving world is sometimes called a disciplining of nations , which goeth before baptizing them , matth. . , . so it is in other places called a preaching of repentance and commanding all men every where to repent , acts . . an opening of mens eyes and turning them from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god , that they may receive remission ( obsigned in baptism ) acts . . . repent and turn to god , verse . and if it was the sum of pauls preaching to the unbaptized [ repentance toward god , and faith toward the lord jesus christ ] acts . . so that it is apparent that they took the profession or appearance of both faith and repentance as prerequisite to baptism , and still this same repentance is it that hath the remission of sin connexed , acts. . . luke . . its repentance unto life , acts . . and when the apostles compare johns baptism with christs , they still acknowledge johns to be baptism of repentance , acts . . and . . and when the apostle doth purposely recite the principle of our religion he doth it in this order . heb. . , . [ the foundation of repentance from dead works and saith towards god , of the doctrine of baptisms , &c. ] argum. . they that before they are baptized must renounce the world , the flesh and the devil , must profess true evangelical repentance ( i mean still such as hath a promise of pardon and salvation ) but all that are baptized must renounce the world , flesh and devil , of which we shall have occasion to say more anon . argum. . they that profess to be buried with christ in baptism , and to rise again , do profess true repentance ; but all that are baptized must profess to be buried with him and rise again , therefore , &c. the major is proved in that to be buried and risen with christ , signifieth , a being dead to sin and alive to god , and newness of life : and it is not onely an engagement of this for the future , but a profession also of it at the present . this with the rest we thus prove , col. . , , . in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of christ , buried with him in baptism , wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of god , who hath raised him from the dead , and you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh hath he quickened together with him , having forgiven you all trespasses . where note . that this is spoken to all the church of the colossians ▪ and therefore they are presumed to be what they profess and appear to be . . that the putting of the body under the water did signifie our burial with christ and the death and putting off of our sins ; and though we now use a less quantity of water , yet it is to signifie the same thing , or else we should destroy the being of the sacrament . so also our rising out of the water signifieth our rising and being quickned together with him . . note also that it is not onely an engagement to this hereafter , but a thing presently done . they were in baptism buried with christ , and put off the body of sin , and were quickned with him ; and this doth all suppose their own present profession to put off the body of sin , and their consent to be baptized on these terms . the like we have in rom. . chapter . . know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ were baptized into his death ? therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the father , even so we also should walk in newness of life ; for if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death , we shal be also into the likeness of his resurrection . here also it is evident , . that all the members of the visible church are supposed to be baptized into christ , and into his death , & so to be buried with him by baptism into death & planted together into the likeness of his death . . and that this is not supposed to be onely an engagement for the future , but a present entrance into the state of mortification and vivification wherein they were to proceed by newness of life ; and therefore verse , , , , . they are supposed to have the old man crucified with christ that the body of sin might be destroyed , and that henceforth they should not serve sin , and that they are so dead as to be freed from sin , as to the servitude thereof . and that they must reckon themselves dead to sin , but alive to god . he that readeth the whole chapter with judgement and impartialitie , will soon discern that true repentance and abrenuntiation of the service of sin , was to be professed by all that would be baptized ; and that thereupon they sealed their own profession and covenant by the reception of baptism , as christ sealed his part by the actual baptizing them ; and that hereupon they are by the apostles all called and supposed such as they professed themselves to be . argum. . if it be the very nature of baptism to signifie and seal both the present putting off the body of sin , and present putting on christ , then the profession of true repentance must needs precede or concur with baptism : but the former is certain ; of which more anon . i conclude then that both scripture , and the very signs themselves , and the common consent of the church do shew that true repentance and present repentance must be professed by all those that we may baptize . pag. . argum. . my first argument was from the necessity of a profession of true repentance . the . shall be from the equipollent terms , a description to the thing described , thus : we must baptize no man that first professeth not to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost : but no infant professeth to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost ; therefore we must baptize no infant : the minor is manifest by sense . the major is proved from matth. . . where this is made the form of the words in baptism , or at least the end , and that which we must insist on ▪ calvin on the words yields the anabaptists that faith is put justly before baptism , nam alioqui mendax essot , figuraque remissionem peccatorum & spiritus donum afferes incredulis , qui nondum essent christi membra . for otherwise he should speak false , and the figure should bring remission of sins , and the gift of the spirit to unbelievers , who were not members of christ . and that , non abs re , patris , filii & spiritus expressa hic fit mentio , quia aliter baptismi vis apprehendi non potest , quam si a gratuita patris miserecordia initium fiat , qui nos per filium sibi reconciliat , deinde in medium prodeat christus ipse cum mortis suae sacrificio , & tandem accedat etiam spiritus sanctus per quem nos abluit & regenerat ; denique suorum omnium bonorum consor●es faciat . not from the matter , here is express mention made of the father , son , and spirit , because otherwise the efficacie of baptism cannot be apprehended , but by beginning from the fathers free mercy , who reconciles us to himself by his son , and then that christ himself come between with the sacrifice of his death , and then at last the holy spirit also approach , by which he washeth and regenerates us , and last of all makes us partakers of his benefits . it appeareth by comparing matth. . . with rom. . . and cor. . , , . and . . that to be baptized into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , is not onely to be baptized by their authority , but also to be thus initiated into the relation which the church standeth in to them , and to be consecrated to the father , son , and holy ghost , as musculus , diodate , the assembly of divines annotations , and the generality of expositors do express . see doctor hammond , pract. catech. lib. . . . and especially on matth. . . grotius at large , and that it comprehendeth or presupposeth a profession of believing son and holy ghost . for no man can devote himself solemnly by our ministry to the holy trinity , that doth not first profess to believe in them : therefore the chuch over taught the catechumeni the creed first , in which they profess to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost . and before they actually baptized them , they asked them whether they believed in god the father , son , and holy ghost ? to which they must answer affirmatively , or not be baptized . and all that are baptized must first profess to believe in his name , and so to receive him , and not onely promise to do it hereafter . i adde that the same faith that is mentioned in the ordinary creed in the church , is meant in the baptismal profession , and to be required before baptism ; this will be confessed . . because the creed it self hath been this . years at least professed before baptism . . because the creed it self is but the . fundamental baptismal articles mentioned , matth. . . enlarged and explained on subsequent occasions ( as sandford , and parker , de descensu have learnedly and largley proved , and grotius in matth. . . proves out of tertullian , &c. that the creed was not then in the form of words as now , though the same doctrine was used in other words , to the same uses . pag. . argum. . the foregoing argument was taken from the prerequisite profession , the next shall be taken from the very work it self , viz. the presenting and offering our selves to be baptized , and willingly receiving baptism : thus , if it be the very nature or appointed use of the ex●eanal part of baptism it self ( yea essential to it ) to signifie and profess ( among other things ) the saving faith and repentance of the baptized , then true baptism cannot go without such a profession . but the baptism of infants is without such a profession , therefore the baptism of infants is not true baptism . the minor is manifest by sense . the antecedent ( which onely requireth proof ) i prove thus : it is of the instituted nature of baptism to be in general , a professing sign as well as an engaging sign , de futuro , for the future : this i premise , as granted by all christians that i know of that have written of baptism , and then let us consider of the several parts of the sign or external ordinance , with the signification of each ; that it is essential to it to be significant and obligatory on our part , as well as on gods part , is commonly confessed . and . the minister doth baptize him into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and the party doth consent thereto , . voluntarily offering himself to be bapitzed , and then . voluntarily receiving that baptism . and his offer of himself hereto , goeth before the ministers baptizing him , and his reception of that baptism is essential to it : so that baptism essentially containeth on his part a signal profession of consent to that which is meant in the form used by the minister [ i baptize thee into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ] and that is , that god the father , son , and holy ghost be mine , and i be theirs , in the relations in which they are offered in the gospel to mankind ; for all confess that it is a covenant that is here sealed , and so a mutual consent which the signs are instituted by christ to signifie . christ offereth himself to be related to me as my jesus christ ; and by offering my self to baptism , and by voluntary receiving it , i do actually profess my acceptance of his offer , that is of himself so offered . god the father offereth himself to be my god reconciled in christ , and so my chief good : and by voluntary receiving baptism i do signally profess my acceptance of him so offered . the holy ghost is offered to be my sanctifyer and guide ; and by voluntary reception of baptism into his name , i do signally profess my acceptance of him so offered : so that it is a most clear case , that baptism as baptism , according to it s instituted nature and use , doth contain the persons actual signal profession of present assent to the truth of the gospel , and acceptance of god the father , son , and holy ghost as therein offered . and it containeth ( as our divines commonly maintain ) an actual signal profession that we there presently consecrate or devote , or dedicate our selves to god the father , son , and holy ghost in the foresaid relations . . another part of baptism is , the ministers washing the person , and the person first offering himself to be washed , and after actually receiving it , doth thereby signally profess his consent . now this washing doth essentially signifie our washing from our former filth of sin , together with the guilt ; our putting off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts of the flesh . he that signally professeth his present consent to be washed by the blood of christ from his former filthiness and guilt , and to lay by the filthiness of flesh and spirit , doth co nomine profess saving faith and repentance . but all that are baptized with the baptism of christs institution , do by the very voluntary reception of baptism , so profess ; therefore they do thereby profess saving faith and repen● . quad modum as to the manner ; it s commonly confessed by us to the anabaptists ( as our commentators declare ) that in the apostles times the baptized were dipped over head in the water , and that this signifieth their profession , both of believing the bu●ial and resurrection of christ , and of their own present renouncing the world and flesh , or dying to sin and living to christ , or rising again to newness of life , or being buried and risen again with christ , as the apostle expoundeth in the forecited texts of col. . and rom. . and though we have thought it lawful to disuse the manner of dipping , and to use less water , yet we presume not to change the use and signification of it : so then , he , that signally professeth to die and rise again in baptism with christ , doth signally profess saving faith and repentance . but thus do all that are baptized according to the apostles practice : therefore , &c. pag. . argum. . if we must baptize none that profess not their consent to enter themselves presently into the covenant of grace with god in christ , then we must baptize no infant , but the former is true ; therefore , &c. the consequence is manifest , sith it is manifest even by sense , that infants profess not their consent to enter themselves into the covenant of grace with god in christ . the antecedent i think will be granted by many of the papists , and it is the common doctrine of the protestants ; and therefore as to them i need not prove it . i confess , some of the anbaptists , and some few others , do question whether baptism be a seal of the covenant of grace ; but the quarrel is mostly , if not onely , about the bare word [ seal ] for they confess that in sense which we mean by sealing ; and particularly they confess , that we do in baptism enter into the convenant of god , and that it is a professing and engaging sign on our part , as well as an exhibiting , notifying , confirming sign on gods part . it is confest it is the covenant of grace we are to enter , and that there is but one covenant of grace . this master blake acknowledgeth , for all the mention of an outward covenant : it is also a confessed thing on all hands that it is god that is the first author and offerer of the covenant , that it is he that redeemed us , who made the promise or covenant of grace upon the ground of redemption ; and that it is frequently called a covenant in scripture , as it is a divine law or constitution , without respect to mans consent , as grotius hath proved in the preface to his annotations on the evangelists : much more ( out of doubt ) is it , that it is called a covenant before man consenteth , as it is a covenant offered , and not yet mutually entred ; in the former sense the word is taken properly , but in another sense and for another thing then in the later . but in the later it is taken tropically , viz. synedochically , it being but a covenant drawn up and consented to by god conditionally , and offered to us for our con●ent . it is the same covenant that is offered to us and not another , that we are called to consent to or enter in , and we cannot be truly said to enter into covenant with god if we make a new one of our own , and lay by his ; for that 's none of the covenant of god : he never offered it , nor will he ever enter it . we are i hope agreed what the covenant of grace is , as offered on gods part ( or else its great pity ; ) viz. that on the title of cre●●●n first and redemption after , we being absolutely his own , it is offered to us , that god will be our god ( our chief good and reconciled father in christ ) that christ will be our saviour ( by propitiation teaching and ruling us ) even from the guilt , filth , or power of sin , that the holy ghost will be our indwelling sanctifier , if we heartily or sincerely accept the gift and offer , that god will consent to be our god , christ to be our jesus christ , and the holy ghost to be our in-dwelling sanctifier , if we will but consent . this is no doubt the gift or covenant so offered . these things being thus premised , i come to prove not onely the inseparability but even the identity of heart covenan●ing and saving faith , and of signal external covenanting and the profession of saving faith , without which we must not baptize any . pag. . argum. . we must not baptize any without the profession of that faith and repentance which are made the condition of remission of sins . but infants make no profession of that faith and repentance which are made the condition of remission of sins , therefore no infants are to be baptized ; the minor is manifest by sense , and the major i prove thus . if we must not baptize any but intentionally for present remission of sin , then must not we baptize any without a profession of that faith and repentance which is the condition of remission . but the former is true , therefore so is the ●uer ; the consequence is past all doubt , for else we should imagine that men may have present actual pardon without that faith and repentance which are the condition of it , which subverteth much of the gospel . the antecedent i prove thus : if god hath instituted no baptism , but what is intentionally for the present remission of sin , then we must not baptize any but intentionally for the present remission of sin : but the former is true , therefore so is the later . i say [ intentionally ] in contradistinction from [ eventually , or certainly and infallibly attaining that end ] where further note , that i speak not of gods absolute decrees , as if his intention in that sense could be frustrate ; but of his ends as legislator speaking of him after the manner of men , but principally of the instituted end of his ordinances ; that is , the ends which he requireth the minister and people to use them for , and so it is our intention principally that i mention . as the gospel it self is said to be intentionally to save men , and though it condemn most , that is besides the first intention and but by accident ; and though this be principally to be spoken of the prae-imposed intentions of their conversion and salvation ; yet christ is pleased in the word to ascribe such intentions to himself as attain not their ends , as professing that he came not into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him migh be saved : that is , to condemn them is not his direct principal intent , but onely on supposition of their wilfull final rejecting of him ; and thus he speaks partly in the habit of a rector or promiser , and partly as man , or after the manner of men : and of the intention imposed on us there is no doubt . now i shall prove the antecedent ( for the consequence is past doubt : ) and first we are confirmed in this truth , because the opponent ( whom it concerneth ) hath not proved any other baptism instituted by god , but what is for present re●ission of sins . if they can shew us one text of scripture that speaketh of any other , we shall give up all the cause ; but yet they have not done it that i know of . in the mean time we shall prove the contrary , god hath instituted but one baptism : that one baptism is for the present remission of sins , therefore god hath instituted no baptism but what is for present remission . the major is proved from ephes. . . there is one baptism . in the minor we take the words [ for remission ] not to speak of somewhat accidental , or to be intended onely by the administrator , uncertainly or but sometime . and i prove it from scripture , acts . . repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost , as remission is here made the end of baptism so it is present remission . for . it is such as is the consequent of the repentance which peter exhorteth them to , but that was present remission . . it was to precede the giving of the holy ghost in the sense there mentioned , therefore it was present remission . beza in loc. upon the place , saith , [ in nomen christi ] id est dans christo nomen , cujus mortis , scpulturae ac resurrectionis simus in baptizo participes , cum peccatorum remissione , nec enim hoc declarat formulam baptismi s●d finem & scopum . in the name of christ , that is , giving our name to christ , of whose death , burial , and resurrection , we are made partakers in baptism , with the forgiveness of sins , for this doth not declare the form of baptism , but the end and scope . so deodate [ in the name ] viz. [ not onely for a mark of our profession of the gospel , but also to participate of his spiritual virtue in the washing away of our sins , with which he accompanieth and ratifieth the external ceremony in those who are his ] bullinger in loc. saith , baptiz●ri in nomine domini jesu christi , est baptismatis signo testari se christo credere ad remissionem peccatorum . to be baptized in the name of the lord jesus christ , is by the sign of baptism , to testifie that we believe in christ for the remission of sins . . mark , it is not onely an engagement to believe hereafter , but the profession of a present faith . . and that not a common faith , but that which hath remission of sin . . and this was not an accidental separable use of baptism ; but he makes this the very exposition of baptizari in nomine jesu christi , to be baptized in the name of jesus christ . and thus he expoundeth the covenant , [ est enim baptismus pactum seu foedus gratiae , quod init inter baptizandum nobiscum christus ] for baptism is an agreement or covenant of grace , which christ enters into with us , when we are baptized . and that it is a professing sign of our true repentance , he shews before [ & rectissime conjungitur paenitentia & baptismus , quia baptismus paenitentiae signum est ] and most rightly is repentance and baptism joyned together , between baptism is the sign of repentance . calvin in loc. upon the place , per baptismum ( ut paulus docet ) crucifigitur vetus homo noster , ut in vitae novitatem resurgamus , by baptism ( as paul teacheth ) our old man is crucified , that we may rise to newness of life . rom. . . . item indutmus christum ipsum , g●l . . . cor. . & passim docet scriptura esse paenitentiae quoque symbolum . also we put on christ himself , and the scripture doth up and down teach it , to be also a badge of repentance . calvin on acts . . non dubium est quin fideliter rudimentis pietatis paulum imbuerit ananias ; neque enim ver● fidei expertem baptizasset , nor doubt but ananias did faithfully instruct pa●l in the rudiments of piety , neither would he have baptize● him ▪ if he had been void of true faith . john . . [ except a man be born of water and of the spirit , he shall not enter into the kingdome of god ] though we are agreed against the papists , that christ intendeth not here to place the same necessity in baptism , as there is in or of the new birth by the spirit ; yet it is by most acknowledged , that christ doth here speak of the new birth as signified by baptism , and so hath respect to baptism , as the ordinary confirming sign : and so the text fully sheweth us , that baptism is instituted to be the sign of our present regeneration , or else it could not be said that we must be born [ of water and the spirit . ] calvin saith , most are of chrysostomes mind , who took it to be meant of baptism : ( and so did the generality of ancient expositors ) and though himself and some more think otherwise , yet as long as they take it to be a metonymical expression , the sign being put for the thing signified , it doth as well acquaint us with the use of baptism , as if it were a proper speech . bullinger in loc ▪ upon the place , saith [ hanc christi sententiam omnes pene de baptismo interpretantur ] almost all interpret this scripture of christ to baptism . beza believeth , that the text speaketh of baptism either christs or some other , but rather christs , justly doth beza in mark . . fall upon erasmus sharply , for saying [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} [ in ] praep●sitio praeparationem significat , non effectum : the preposition in , signifieth a preparation , and not the effect : because repentance and remission ( saith beza ) cannot be separated ; so that he took it not to be a common preparatory repentance or baptism . piscator on mark . . saith , it s called the baptism of repentance for remission of sin , because john preached remission of sin to the penitent and believers , praecip iebatque ut inhujus rei testimontum atque professionem baptizarentur . he concluded that they should be baptized , in testimony and profession of this thing ; and that is called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the baptism of repentance , id est , qui resipiscentiae testificandae atque profitenda adbibebatur : neque enim baptizabat nisi eos qui confessione peccatorum ●dita , resipiscentiam suam testatam reddebant : caeterum nomine resipiscentiae per synecdochen membri simul intelligenda est fides in christum , that is to say , was used to testifie and profess repentance ; neither did he baptize any but those who by confession of their sins testified their repentance , but by a synecdoche of a part for the whole , is also to be understood , faith in christ , and on matth. . . observe he shews that christs baptism and johns are the same , in that both have the same end and use , viz. obsignatio remissionis peccatorum & resipiscentiae , the sealing of remission of sins and repentance ; that is , as already extant , as his judgement is oft delivered ; as in his schol. on ver. . he expresly faith [ in resipiscentiam , id est in testimonium resipiscentiae ; ut nimi●um susceptione baptismi testatum faciatis vor resipuisse , & indies magis ac magis resipiscere velle : sed simul hic intelligendum , joannem baptizasse quoque in remissionem peccatorum , hoc est ut nimirum nomine dei testatum faceret resipiscentibus & in christum credentibus peccata ipsis remissa esse propter christum agnum dei ] unto repentance , that is , in testimony of repentance , viz. that by receiving of baptism you testifie that you have repented , and that you will daily renew your repentance more and more ; but withal we must here understand , that john did baptize also for the remission of sins , that is , that he might testifie in the name of god , to the penitents and believers in christ , that their sins were forgiven them for the sake of christ the lamb of god . and i pray mark his observation on mat. . . . concluding our present question : [ baptismus nulli adulto conferendus est nisi prius ediderit confessionem peccatorum & fidei in christum , ac praterea promissionem sanctae vitae ] baptism is not to be administred to any of age , unless he first make confession of his sins , and of his faith in christ , and besides a promise of a holy life , which he proves . calvin on matth. . . saith [ ergo ut se rite ad baptismum offerant homines , peccatorum confessio ab illis requiritur , alioqui nihil quam inane esset ludicrum tota actio ] therefore that men may rightly offer themselves to baptism , confession of sins is required of men , otherwise the whole action would be nothing else but sport . if i had charged the guilty so of making the whole work of baptism ludicrous , they would have been highly offended ( and yet paedobaptists do so . ) paraeus on matth. . . shews that the order was that confession as a testimony of true repentance go first , and then baptism for remission of sins [ confessio postponitur ; sed {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} constructionis — confessi baptizabantur : pro , cum con●essi essent peccata , baptismum accipiebant sacramentum remissionis peccatorum : non prius baptizabantur , postea confitebantur — auditores igitur primo in testimonium resipiscentiae confitebantur sua peccata , deinde baptizabantur , tertio fide baptismi fructum suscipiebant remissionem peccatorum . docet hic locus varia . . quod baptismus sit sacramentum remissionis peccatorum , ex parte dei ; spondet enim deus ceu ju rejurande baptizatis remissionem gratuitam peccatorum propter christum . . quod sit etiam sacramentum resipiscentiae ex parte nostra ; restipulamur enim deo fidem & paenitentiam pro tanto beneficio . confession is put after , but in construction the first is to be last ; those who confessed were baptized , for when they confessed their sins , they received baptism , a sacrament of the forgiveness of their sins ; they were not baptized first , and confessed their sins after , the hearers then first confessed their sins in testimony of their repentance , then they were baptized , thirdly by faith they received the fruit of baptism ; the remission of sins : this place teacheth divers things . . that baptism is a sacrament of the forgiveness of sins , on gods part , for god promiseth as by an oath , to those who are baptized , a free pardon of sin for christs sake : . that it is also a sacrament of repentance on our part , for we again engage to god , faith and repentance , for so great a benefit ; that is , both profess it at present , and ingage to continue in it ; answering the interrogation credis ? with a credo , and not onely a credam . doest thou believe ; i do believe in the present tense , and not onely i will believe , in the future . ad sacramenta non esse admittendos impenitentes . hoc enim damus ( anabaptistis ) in ecclesiam suscipiendos & baptizandes non esse nisi praevia confessione fidei & paenitentiae : quem morem & vetus servavit ecclesia , & nostrae hodei observant , si vel judaeus vel turca adults baptismo sit ▪ initiandus . impenitents are not to be admitted to the sacraments : for this we grant to the anabaptists , that such are not to be required into the church , nor to be baptized , who have not first made confession of faith and repentance , which custom both the ancient church did observe , and ours observe at this day , if either a jew or a turk of age is to be admitted by baptism . and on verse . he saith , ex concione ipsa datur intelligi , multos illorum simulata paenitentia etiam baptismum petivisse : horum hypocrisin cum non ignoraret , non passus eos latere in turba , nec ad baptismum indignos admisit , sed acri objurgatione , hortatione & comminatione ad seriam resipiscentiam extimulat , & ad baptismum praeparat . from the sermon it self it s to be understood , many of them also required baptism by a feigned repentance , when as he understood their hypocrisie , he suffered them not to lurk in the croud , neither admitted he to baptism those that were unworthy of it , but stirs them up to a serious repentance , by sharp reprehension , exhorting and threatning , and so prepares them unto baptism ; after he shews , that there are hypocritae manifesti quos pastores admittere non debent sine examine , ne sacramenta prostituant , sibi & ecclesiae reatum attrahant , manifest hypocrites , whom pastors ought not to admit without examination , least they prostitute the sacraments , and contract guilt to themselves and the church . and pag. . against maldonate he proveth the baptism of christ and john all one ; and when maldonate saith , that john baptized in panitentiam , & baptismus praecedebat , paenitentia sequebatur , unto repentance , and that baptism went before , and repentance followed , ( confessing that in christs baptism repentance precedes ) he answereth [ that it is faise , nam etiam in joannis baptismo praecedebat paenitentiae , sequebatur baptismus ] for repentance did also precede in johns baptism , and baptism followed . pet. . . it is said of the barren ungodly professor [ that he hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins , ] where i take it for a clear case , that it is the baptismal washing which the apostle there intendeth , wherein all profess to put off the old man , and to be washed from their former filthiness ; for i suppose we shall be loath to yield that it was an actual cleansing either of remission or mortification , which the apostle meaneth , lest we grant that men may fall from such a state ; and therefore it must be a sacramental washing , or cleansing , wherein the matter was appearingly and sacramentally transacted . from whence it is plain that the apostle took it for granted , that as all the baptized were visibly church-members , so were they all visibly washed from their old sins ; which sheweth both what was their own profession , and what was the stated end and use of the ordinance . the apostle saith not that [ he hath forgotten that he promised or engaged to be purged from his old sins ] but that [ he was purged ] from them . paraeus in locum , upon the place , saith , [ a veteribus peccatis purgatum , hoc est se esse baptizatum , seu se accepisse in baptismo purgationis signaculum . omnes enim baptizati debent purgari a peccatis , sicut dicuntur induere christum , gal. . mori cum christo , rom. . sensus est , qui se volutant in sceleribus , non recordantur se baptizatos esse , abnegant ergo baptismum suum ] that he was purged from his old sins , that is , was baptized , or had received in baptism the seal of purging , for all those who are baptized , ought to be purged from their sins , as they are said to put on christ , to die with christ , the meaning is , they which wallow in their sins , do not remember they were baptized , and therefore do renounce their baptism . cor. . . the apostle saith of the visible church of corinth [ such were some of you , but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified , &c. ] where it is evident , that all the visible members of the church are visibly washed , sanctified , justified : and i think it is clear that by washing here he hath some respect to their baptism . so that i conclude that there is no baptism to be administred without a profession of saving faith and repentance foregoing , because there is no baptism that ever christ appointed but what is for the obsignation of remission of sins , which is the consequent . master blake , pag. . reciteth some words of mine containing this argument , thus ; that faith to which the promise of remission and justification is made , must also be sealed to : or that faith which is the condition of the promise , is the condition in foro de● , in the court of god , of the title to the seal : but it is onely solid true faith that is the condition of the promise of remission ; therefore it is that which gives right in foro dei , in the court of god , to the seal . who would think now but master blake had given some substantial answer to this and other arguments , when himself and some others are so confident of the sufficiency of them ? his answer is this : [ to this i have answered , faith is not sealed to , but remission of sins or salvation upon condition of faith ; and when i come to speak of the sealing of sacraments , i shall ( god willing ) make this more evident , that the sacrament qua seal immediately respects our priviledges , not duties ] reply . is here one word of answer to any real part of this argument . is not this answer as little to the matter , as if he had talked of another subject . i think it my duty to say that ministers of the gospel do but proclaim to the church the matter of our common lamentation , and the enemies joy , when some confidently publish such kind of disputations , and others are satisfied with them ; and i must say if all were such , they should never be angred with one word of mine in opposition to their assertions , though they would maintain that the crow is white . . to that useless touch that he hath on a word ( whose following explication might have spared him his labour ) i may say that our divines have ordinarily maintained hitherto that there is a mutual covenanting between god and us , ( and no man more then master blake ) and that there is in the sacrament a mutual sealing ; the receiving being our seal , as the act is gods . pag. . argum. . if baptism be instituted to be a seal of the righteousness of that faith which we have yet being unbaptized , then must we baptize none that profess not a justifying faith . but no infants profess a justifying faith , therefore we must baptize no infants ; the minor is manifest by sense . the reason of the consequence is evident , in that we must use baptism onely according to its nature and to its instituted ends : the antecedent is proved thus : circumcision was instituted to be a seal of the righteousness of that faith which we have yet unbaptized . the consequence will not be denied by them whom we now deal with : because they confesse that baptism succeedeth circumcision . the antecedent is evident in rom. . . it being expresly said of abraham to whom circumcision was first given . i cannot imagine what they will say , unless it be by recourse to the anabaptists shift , to say that circumcision was instituted to this end indeed , to abraham himself , and others that were sincere , but not to all that had right to it ; but god here tells us the established use and end of his ordinance , and in such relations , the end is inseparable . and as god hath not made many sorts of baptisms or circumcisions : so neither many meer inconsistent ends ( or separable ) and we are likest to know the true end of the institution , where the institution and first example are reported to us . calvin in loc. saith , duae denique ut baptismi hodie sunt , ita olim circumcisionis erant partes , nempe , tam vitae novitatem , quam peccatorum remissionem testari : lastly , as there are two parts at this day of baptism , so of old there were two of circumcision , viz. to witness , as newness of life , so forgiveness of sins . saith piscator , in loc. upon the place , sicut olim circumcisio signum suit faeleris gratiae , & figillum quo credentibus obsignata fuit justitia fidei , hoc est , quo illi certiores sunt redditi , sibi remssa esse peccata , propter futuram satisfactionem christi , ac proinde se babere deam propitium ac foventem ; ita caetera quoque sacramenta , &c. similiter & finis seu scopus omnium sacramentorum unus idemque , viz. obsignatio justitiae fidei , quae vulgo dicitur fidei confirmatio . paraeus in loc. saith [ ita signum fuit dantis & accipientis respectu , &c. ] et [ justitia fidei est remissio peccatorum fide accepta propter redemptionem christi ] et [ sic sacramenta non sunt instituta justificandis , sed justificatis , hoc est non infidelibus sed conversis , non igiturnisi conversione & fide sumi debent : secus sigilla justitiae esse cessant : quid enim non babentibus fidem & justitiam obsignarent ? as circumcision was of old a sign of the covenant of grace , and a seal whereby was sealed the righteousness of faith to believers , that is to say , whereby they were certified that their sins were forgiven them , by receiving of the future satisfaction of christ , and therefore they had god propitious and favouring unto them , so also the other sacraments , &c. also the end or scope of all the sacraments is as one and the same , viz. the signing of the righteousness of faith , which is commonly called the confirmation of faith , so it was a sign both in respect of the giver , and receiver , &c. and the righteousness of faith is the forgiveness of sins by faith , received because of christs redemption , and so the sacraments are not instituted for those who are to be justified , but for the justified , that is , not for unbelievers , but for those which are converted , therefore are they not to be taken without conversion and saith , otherwise they were to be seals of righteousness , for what would it seal to them , who have not faith and repentance ? doctor willet , in loc. saith [ circumcision then did not confer upon him that grace which he had not , but did confirm and establish him in the grace and faith received : the sacraments then non instituta sunt justificandis , sed justificatis , are not instituted for those which are to be justified , but for them which are already justified parae . ] peter martyr is large , and makes these words rom. . . of paul to be the definition of a sacrament , to be a seal of the righteousness of faith . pag. . argum . we must baptize none but those that are first professed disciples of christ . but none are professed disciples of christ that profess not saving saith in christ , therefore we may not baptize any that profess not saving faith in christ : but no infant doth profess saving faith in christ , as is manifest by sense ; therefore no infant is a professed disciple of christ , nor must we baptize any . the major is proved from matth. . . go , disciple me all nations baptizing them ] as for those that say , they are discipled by baptizing , and not before baptizing , . they speak not the sense of that text . . nor that which is true or rational , if they mean it absolutely as so spoken , else why should one be baptized more then another ? . but if they mean that by heart-covenant or gods acceptance and promise they are disciples before , but not so compleatly till the covenant be sealed and solemnized , as a souldier is not so signally a souldier till he be listed , nor a king till he be crowned so fully a king , or a man and woman so fully maried till it be solemnized in the congregation ; in this sense they say the same that i am proving : men must be first disciples by the professed consent , before they are declared such by the seals or publick sacramental solemnization . and that onely the professors of saving saith are disciples , may appear by a perusal of the texts of scripture that use this word , and it will not onely by found that this which i maintain is the ordinary use of the word ( which should make it so also with us ) but that no text can be cited where any others are called the disciples of christ . for the major and minor both observe piscators definition of baptism [ on matth . . ] baptismus est sacrimentum novi testamenti , quo homines ad ecclesiam pertinentes ex mandato christi cultui veri dei , qui est pater , filius & spiritus sarctus per ministros verbi consecrantur , & in fide remissionis peccatorum & spe vitae aternae confirmantur . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , by which those men who belong to the church , by the command of christ , are consecrated to the worship of the true god , which is the father , son , and holy spirit , by the ministers of the word , and are confirmed in the faith of remission of sins , and of hope of eternal life . and he proveth this description , per partes , by parts . . that is a sacrament . . that it belongeth to those that pertain to that church , and that onely must be baptized , qui ecclesiam fuerit ingressi , ac fidem evangelii prosessi , who are entred into the church , and have professed the faith of the gospel . which he proveth from mark . . he that believeth , and is baptized shall be saved . vult ergo ( saith he ) ut prius constet de alicujus fide quam baptizetur , unde act. . philippus evangelista non prius baptizare voluit eunuchum illum ethiopem quam is professus esse● fidem christi . he wills therefore , that his faith be manifested , before he be baptized , whence acts. . philip the evangelist would not baptize the ethiopian ennuch , before he had professed the faith of christ . calvin in loc. upon the place , saith [ bapti●●ri jubet christus qui nomen evangelii dederint , s●que professi fuerint discipulos , partim ut illis baptismus si● vitae aeternae tessera coram deo ; partim apud homines externum fidei signum : quem ad modum gratiam suam deus hoc sigillo nobis confirmat , ita quicunque se ad baptismum offerunt , vicissim quasi data syngrapha obstringunt s●am sidem ] christ commands them to be baptized , who have given up their names to the gospel , and have professed to be his disciples , partly that baptism might be to them a sign of eternal life before god , partly an external sign of faith before men , and as god confirms his grace to us by this seal , so whosoever offers himself to baptism , doth reciprocally engage his faith as it were by his bond . and after [ verum quia docere prius jubet christus quam baptizare , & tantum credentes ad baptismum vult recipi , videtur non rite administrari baptismus nisi fides pracesserit ] but because christ commands first to teach , then to baptize , and onely will have believers to be received to baptism , it seems that baptism is not rightly administred , unless faith doth precede . so that it is calvins judgement , that this very text which is the most notable copy of the apostolical commission for the baptizing of the disciple nations doth appoint that saving faith be professed before men be baptized . paraeus in locum , from mark . . sheweth that the order is , ●redere & baptizari , to believe and to be baptized . i agree with him and the rest in the main , that justifying faith must be an act of the will ( embracing or accepting an offered christ ) as well as of the understanding , and that the profession of it must go before baptism . but i shall further prove the minor from some other texts of scripture , viz. that they are not christs disciples that profess not saving faith . luke , , . [ if any man come to me and hate not his father and mother , and wife and children , and brothers and sisters ; yea , and his own life also , he cannot be my disciple : and whosoever doth not bear his cross , and come after me , cannot be my disciple : whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath , cannot be my disciple ] this is spoken of true disciples in heart ( the first significatum ) by him that knew the heart . from whence i argue thus : [ if none are christs disciples in heart , nor can be , but those that value him above all , and will forsake all for him if he require it , then none can be his disciples by external profession , but those that profess to esteem him above all , and to be willing to forsake all rather then forsake him : but the former is proved by the text ; the consequence is clear , in that the world hath hitherto been acquainted but with two sorts of christians , or disciples of christ ; the one such sincerely in heart , and the other such by profession , and the later are so called because they profess to be what the other are indeed , and what themselves are if they sincerely so profess . and it is the same thing professed which makes a man a professed christian , which being found in the heart doth make a man a hearty christian . john . . [ by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another ] here christ giveth a certain badge by which his true disciples may be known . if onely those that love one another are true disciples in heart , then onely those that profess to love one another are disciples by profession . joh. . . if ye continue in my word then are ye ( that is you will approve your selves ) my disciples indeed ] if onely those are christs disciples indeed as to the heart , that have the resolution of perseverance , then onely those are his professed disciples that profess a resolution to persevere . but therefore all this i have said , is no more then we have ever practised , when in baptism we renounced the world , flesh , and devil , and promised to fight under christs banner to our lives end . saith piscator in john . . si pro christianis , id est , christi discipulis haberi volumus , oportet ut nos mutuo quam ardentisaime diligamus , &c. if we will be accounted christians , that is , christs disciples , we ought most ardently to love one another . object . any one is a disciple that is willing to learn of christ . answ. no such matter : in an improper sense you may so call them , but not in scripture sense ; where . a disciple and a christian are all one , acts . . but every one that is willing to learn of christ is not a christian , therefore not a disciple . . a disciple of christ is one that will take him for the great prophet of the church [ which whosoever heareth not shall be cut off from gods people ] and will learn of him as of the christ : but so will not all that will learn of him : for a man that taketh christ but for a common wise man , as socrates or plato may be willing to learn of him : and so may be his disciple in another sense , but not in the christian sense as a christian . pag. . argum. . we ought not to baptize those persons that do not so much as profess their forsaking of the childhood and kingdom of the devil : but no infant doth profess its forsaking of the childhood and kingdom of the devil , as is manifest by sense , therefore we ought to baptize no infant . the maior is proved thus : if we must baptize none but for present admission into the kingdom of christ , then we must baptize none but those that promise a present departure from the kingdom of the devil ; but the former is true , therefore so is the later . the antecedent is granted by those that i have to do with ; the reason of the consequence is evident , in that all the world is divided into these two kingdomes , and they are so opposite that there is no passing into one but from the other . the minor of the first argument i prove thus . all they are visiby in the kingdom of the devil , or not so much as by profession removed out of it , who profess not a removal from that condition in which the wrath of god abideth on them , and they are excluded by the gospel from everlasting life , but such are all that profess not a justifying faith . the major is proved , in that it is the condition of the covenant of grace performed that differenceth the members of christs kingdom from satans ; and so it is that condition profest to be performed that visibly differenceth them before men . it is the promise of grace that bringeth them out of satans kingdome , therefore it is onely done visibly to those that profess the performance of the condition : moreover to be out of satans kingdom visibly , is to be visibly from under his government , but those that profess not saving faith are not visibly from under his government . lastly , to be visibly out of satans kingdom , is to be visibly freed from his power , as the executioner of gods eternal vengeance ; but so are none that profess not saving faith . the minor is proved from john . . where it is plain , . that the unbelief spoken of is that which is opposed to saving faith , even to that saith which hath here the promise of everlasting life , . and that this leaves them visibly under the wrath of god . so in mark . . compared with matth. . . in the later christ bids them make him disciples , and in the former he describeth those that are such , and those that remain still in the kingdom of satan [ he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , and he that believeth not shall be damned ] here it is evident that the unbelief threatned is that which is contrary to [ and even the privation of ] the faith that salvation is expresly promised to , and that all that profess not this saving faith are not so much as professedly escaped a state of damnation , and that this is the differencing character of christs disciples to be baptized [ of which yet more afterwards . ] pag. . argum. . if it be the appointed use of all christian baptism to solemnize our mariage with christ , or to seal or confirm our union with him , or ingraffing into him , then must we baptize none that profess not justifying faith [ because this is necessarily prerequisite , and no other can pretend to union , mariage or ingraffing into christ ] but no infant doth profess justifying faith , as is manifest by sense ; therefore we must baptize no infant . both the antecedent and consequent are evident in gal. . , , . for as many of you as have been baptized in christ , have put on christ : ye are all one in christ jesus , and if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . here . we see that it is not an accidental or separable thing for baptism to be our visible entrance into christ , our putting him on , our admittance ( by solemnization ) into the state of gods children and heirs according to promise . for this is affirmed of all the baptized with true christian baptism . if we be truely baptized , we are baptized into christ , if we are baptized into christ , then we are christs , and have put on christ , and are all one in christ , and are abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . if any object that the apostle speaks this but of some of them , even of the regenerate , because he saith [ as many of you ] i answer , it is manifest that he speaks of all , . because it was of all them that were baptized into christ , . he expresly saith as much in the next foregoing words [ ver . . for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus ] to which the words recited are annexed as the proof [ for as many of you as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ ] the assumption is implied [ but you have all been baptized into christ ] therefore ye have all put on christ , and so in him are all the children of god . . note that they are the special gifts of saving grace that are here ascribed to all the baptized . . note also that all this is said and proved to be by faith . . note also that it is expresly said to be a justifying faith , before vers . . [ that we might be justified by faith . ] indeed this text affordeth us divers arguments . . the apostle supposeth all the baptized to profess a justifying faith , among the galatians , therefore so must we suppose of others , and expect that they do it . the antecedent is proved from vers . , , and . compared . . all the baptized are said to have put on christ , therefore they are supposed to profess that faith by which christ is put on : but that is onely justfying faith . . all that are duely baptized are baptized into christ , therefore they are supposed to profess that faith by which men are united , or ingraffed into christ , but that is onely justifying faith ; but the rest of the arguments here will be further touched on anon . master rutherford saith that scripture no where calleth christ the head of the visible church as such , as it is after cited . i conclude then that christ hath app●inted no baptism but what is for a visible mariage of the soul to himself ( as protestants ordinarily confess ) therefore he hath appointed no baptism but for those that profess to take jesus christ for their husband , and to give up themselves to him as his espouse : but this is a profession of justifying faith , for heartily to take christ for our head and husband is true saving faith , and proper to his own regenerate pecple if any thing in the world be so ; and no man can profess to be maried to christ that doth not profess to take him for a husband . therefore for my part i never intend to baptize any without profession of saving faith , amen . and let the lord god say so too , that mr. b●xter may baptize no more infants , nor defend so palpable an abuse , but may wipe away the reproach he hath cast on gods people and ordinance : he goes on thus . pag. . argum. . if paul account all the baptized saints or sanctified men dead with christ and risen with him , such as have put on christ , sons of god by adoption , abrahams seed , heirs according to promise and justified ; then they did all profess a true justifying faith . but no infant did profess a true justifying faith : if they did let it be sh●wed when , and where , and to whom : therefore no infant was then baptized , nor are now to be . the antecedent master blake confesseth , and i shall prove it by parts . the consequence is that which lyeth chiefly on me to prove , and i shall do both together . the apostle in the beginning of his epistle to the corinthians , and in many other places calls the whole church saints , cor. . . he saith to them [ but ye are washed , ye are sanctified ] that part of the antecedent then is certain ; the consequene i prove thus . there are none called saints in all the new testament , but onely such as were in heart devoted to christ by a saving faith , or professed so much , therefore the word saint in this case must signifie onely such . if any will prove a third sort of saints , viz. such as profess a faith not saving , they must do that which i never saw done . the first and most famous signification of the word saints or sanctified in the new testament , is onely of them that are in heart devoted to christ by true faith ; therefore the borrowed , or analogical , or less proper signification ( call it what you list ) must be of that which hath the likeness or appearance of this , and that is onely the profession of it . profession maketh saints visible , or by profession , as hearty dedication to god by faith maketh real or heart saints . master blake addeth [ we read of churches of the saints , cor. . . and they were taken to be church-members as soon as they made profession , as they ceased to be jews or pagans , and took them to the way of christianity , as we see , acts . acts . . . . ] answ. . they renounced the way of ungodliness , and wickedness in general by a profession of repentance , as well as the way of paganism and judaism in particular . there were no christians that professed not repentance towards god from dead works . we believe that there were churches of the saints , and therefore that none should be of the church that profess not to be true saints . but prove if you can that there was ever either church or church-member called saints in scripture , that had not either special sanctity or a profession of it . and as for those acts . you cannot prove that any of them were either called saints or baptized without a profession of a justifying faith : as shall further be shewed afterwards . the galatians i find not called saints , but to call them a church of christ or believers is equipollent : and what saints were they ? why they were all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus , having been baptized into christ , and put him on , and were all one in him , and were all abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise , gal. . , , . a church in scripture sense , is a society of men professing true saving faith . and thus we see what a church was , and what saints were , and what believers and disciples were supposed to be by the apostles , and what is the signification of these words in scripture , for they are all of the same extent . thus much i have said to prove that all the baptized are accounted saints , and therefore professed a saving sanctity . the second title which i mentioned follows ( of which i shall be more brief ) all the baptized are accounted to be dead and risen with christ , even dead to sin , and risen to newness of life ; therefore they all profess a saving faith . the proof of this is full in the two texts already cited , rom. . and col. . , . rom. . . &c. how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein ? know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ , were baptized into his death ? therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father , so we also should walk in newness of life . for if we have been planted together into the likeness of his death , we shall be also in the likeness of his resurection , knowing this that our old man is crucified with him , that the body of sin might be destroyed , that hence forth we should not serve sin ; for he that is dead is freed from sin . now if we be dead with christ , we believe that we shall also live with him . likewise , reckon ye also your selves to be dead indeed unto sin , but alive unto god through jesus christ our lord . here is a full report of the use of baptism , and the profession of all that are baptized , and the state they are supposed to be in . so that i cannot speak it plainlyer then the words themselves do . so col. . , . which i shall not stay to recite , because it is to the same purpose , and before cited . the third title mentioned in the argument is this : all that are baptized have professedly put on christ ; therefore they have professed saving faith . the antecedent is expressed gal. . . [ for as many as have been baptized into christ have put on christ ] the consequence is proved in that to put on christ heartily , is to be made true partakers of him , and living members of him , therefore to profess this is inseperable from the profession of saving faith ; yea by that faith he is truly put on . putting on christ is the same with [ putting on the new man , which after god is created in righteousness and true holiness , being renewed in the spirit of our minds , ephes. . , , , , . col. . . it is putting on the new man which is renewed in knowledge according to the image of him that created him ] and putting on the lord jesus christ is put for the state of sanctity in opposition to a fleshly life , rom. . , . saith calvin on this text [ induere christum bic significat virtute spiritus ejus undique nos muniri , qua idonei ad omnes sanctitatis partes reddamur : sic enim in nobis instauratur imago dei quae unicum est animae ornamentum . respicit enim paulus ad vocationis nostrae finem , quia deus nos adoptans in corpus unigenti filii sui inserit , & quidem hac lege , ut nos abdicantes priore vita fiamus in ipso novi homines . quare etiam alibi fideles dicit christum induere in baptismo , gal. . . ] to put on christ signifies here to be defended in all points with the virtue of the spirit , whereby we may be fit for all parts of holiness , for thus the image of god is renewed in us , which is the onely ornament of the soul , for paul hath respect to the end of our vocation , because god adopting us , hath ingraffed us in the body of his onely begotten son , and that upon those terms , if we deny our former life , and become new men in him : wherefore he saith elsewhere , that believers put on christ in baptism . and upon gal. . . he saith [ quum dicit , christum induisse , intelligit christo sic esse infitos ; ut coram deo nomen ac personam christi gerant , ac in ipso magis quam in seipsis censcantur . when he saith they have put on christ , he understands that they are so ingraffed in christ , that they carry that name and person of christ in the sight of god , and are rather reckoned in him , then in themselves . and he comes to the objection , how all that are baptized can be said to put on christ , when baptism is not effectual with all ? and he answereth in summe , that to hypocrites it is uneffectual , qui nudis signis superbiunt , who are proud with the bare signs . but then he saith , that the apostle speaking of these non resspicit dei institutionem , sed impiorum corruptelam . he hath no respect to gods institution , but to the corruption of the wicked . ( but doubtless it is gods institution that we must look to in our administration ) qaum autem fideles alloquitur , qui rite utuntur illa , tunc conjungit cum sua veritate , quam figurant . quare ? neque enim fallacem pompam ostentat in sacramentis , sed quae externa caremonia figurat , exhibet simul reipsa . hinc fit , ut veritas , secundum dei institutum , conjuncta sit cum signis ] but when he speaks to believers , who use it rightly , he joyns them with their truth , which they typifie . wherefore ? for he doth not make shew of a deceitful pomp in the sacraments , but what the external ceremony figures , he exhibites together in very deed . hence it comes to pass that truth , according to gods institution , is joyned with the signs . to the same purpose say other protestants . the next title mentioned in the argument was , sons of god . all that are baptized are the visible or esteemed sons of god by saith in christ ; therefore they all profess that justifying faith to which that real or special sonship is promised . the antecedent is expressed in gal. , , . [ for ye are all the sons of god by saith in christ jesus ] which he proveth in the next words [ for as many as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ ] what sons of god are in scripture sense may be seen , john . . rom. . , . phil. . . john . , . gal. . , , , . and rom. . . [ if sons , then heirs , heirs of god , and joynt heirs with christ ] was a good consequence in pauls judgement [ in this ( saith john ) the children of god are manifest from the children of the devils : whosoever doth not righteousness is not of god , neither he that loveth not his brother , john . . see also john . . rom. . . . but master blake objecteth rom. . . [ to them pertained the adoption ] and gomarus his comment . answ. . gomarus saith not , that any were in either sense sons of god without a profession of a saving faith . . it was not after their unchurching or unbelief , that the adoption is said to pertain to them , but before , and then , let master blake prove [ if he can ] that any israelites were adopted without profession of that faith , which was then saving : i doubt not to prove the contrary anon . and . if he could prove that such there were among the israelites , yet he will never prove that they are called sons , though the nation were ; because the denomination was principally from the true sons , and next from the professed ones : none are visibly sons that be not visibly true believers . the next title mentioned in the argument is [ abrahams seed ] all that are baptized are called abrahams seed , gal. . , , . therefore they all profess a justifying faith . the consequence is proved , in that none are abrahams seed in gospel sense , but those cordially that are true believers , and those appearingly that profess true faith . this is proved , rom. . , , . rom. . . [ that he might be the father of all them that believe , that righteousness might be imputed to them also ] this therefore is a justifying faith , and the priviledge of the justified that is here mentioned . it s added vers . , . [ and the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision , but also walk in the steps of the faith of our father abraham yet uncircumcised . for the promise that he should be heir of the world was not to abraham or his seed by the law , but by the righteousness of faith — therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace , to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed , even to that also which is of the faith of abraham the father of us all . ] so gal. . , , , . [ even as abraham believed god , and it was accounted to him for righteousness : know ye therefore that they which are of saith , the same are the children of abraham ; and the scripture fore-seeing that god would justifie the heathen by faith preached before the gospel to abraham ; in thee shall all nations be blessed . so then , they which be of saith are blessed with faithful abraham ] so vers . . . [ that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles , through jesus christ , that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith . now to abraham , and his seed were the promises made ; he saith not , and to seeds as of many , but as of one ; and to thy seed , which is christ , and so to those that are in him . it is hence most undeniable , that all abrahams true seed are justified , and have a justifying faith ; and all his professing seed do profess this faith . the next title mentioned in the argument is , [ heirs according to the promise . ] all the baptized were heirs according to the promise : none that profess not a justifying faith are heirs according to the promise ( either really or appearingly ) therefore none that profess not a justifying faith should be baptized . the major is expressed , gal. . , , . the minor ( of which is all the doubt ) is proved from rom. . . where there is an express concatenation of [ children , heirs of god , coheirs with christ , that suffering with him shall be glorified with him ] gal. . , , . the heir is lord of all and a son , and therefore hath the spirit of the son , by which they cry abba father . so tit. . , , . [ according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost which he shed on us , &c. that being justified by his grace , we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life ] the heirs then are regenerate , justified , and have the hope of eternal life . so ephes. . . the gentiles being made fellow-heirs , and of the same body are partakers of the promise in christ by the gospel , even the unsearchable riches of christ , heb. . . the heirs of promise have their salvation confirmed by gods oath . and heb. . . they are called the heirs of salvation . and heb. . . . it is true justified believers that have that title , and james . . [ they are called heirs of the promised kingdom ] and . pet. . . they are called coheirs [ of the same grace of life ] so that to be heirs in the first and proper notion is to be sons that have title to the inheritance of glory : and therefore to be heirs in the second analogical notion is to be such as seem such by profession of that faith which hath the promise of that glory . the last title that i mentioned in the argument was [ justified ] paul calleth all the baptized church of corinth justified ; none that profess not a justified faith are called justified , therefore none such should be baptized . the major i proved to master blake out of cor. . . [ ye are washed , ye are sanctified , ye are justified in the name of the lord jesus , and by the spirit of our god . ] master blake doth not at all deny the major or the sense of the text alledged to prove it ; but darkly in generals intimateth a denial of the minor , silently passing over that particular title [ justified ] as if he durst not be seen to take notice of it . i confess its sad that good men should be so unfaithful to the truth , which is so precious , and is not their own , and which they should do nothing against ( as master baxter hath done ) but all they can for it . having gon thus far about titles , let me add another ; the title [ regenerate ] christ hath instituted no baptism , but what is to be a sign of present regeneration . but to men that profess not a justifying faith it cannot be administred as a sign of present regeneration ; therefore he hath instituted no baptism to be administred to such . the major i have proved already in the first argument , and its plain in john . . except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of god ] and so in tit. . . where it is called the laver of [ regeneration ] in both which though i am of their minde that think that the sign is put for the thing signified ; yet it may thence plainly appear what is the thing signified , even regeneration , or the new birth : yea so commonly was this acknowledged by all the church of christ , that there is nothing more common in the writings of the fathers then to take the terms [ regenerate , illuminate , &c. and baptized ] as signifying the same thing , or at least spoken of the same person , which occasioned one of our late antiquaries so stifly to plead that regeneration in scripture signifyeth meer baptism , and that all the baptized are regenerate . i grant that it oft falls out that baptism being misapplied sealeth not regeneration at present , and that the same person may afterward be regenerate , and his remembred baptism may be of use to him for the confirmation of his faith . but this is not the institutes commanded use of it , to be so administred at first , if the party profess not saving faith , though this review of it is a duty , where it was so abused at first . the minor i shall take for granted , while regeneration in scripture stands so connexed to salvation ; i know no regenerate ones , but the justified , or those that profess to have a justifying faith , nor hath he proved any more . pag. . argum. . all that are meet subjects for baptism , ( are after their baptism without any further inward qualification , at least without any other species of saith ) meet subjects for the lords supper : but no infant is a meet subject for the lords supper , as is acknowledged , therefore no infant is a meet subject for baptism : or thus , those whom we may baptize , we may also admit to the lords supper : but we may admit no infants to the lords supper , as is acknowledged by baptizers of infants , therefore we may baptize no infants . the major master blake will easily grant me , and if any other deny it i prove it thus . . it is the same covenant that both sacrament seal , one for initiation the other for confirmation and growth in grace ; therefore the same saith that qualifieth for the one , doth sufficiently qualifie for the other , for the same covenant hath the same condition . . they are the same benefits that are conferred in baptism and the lords supper to the worthy receiver . therefore the same qualification is necessary for the reception : the antecedents is commonly granted . baptism uniteth to christ , and giveth us himself first , and with himself the pardon of all past sins , &c. the lords supper by confirmation giveth us the same things ; it is the giving of christ himself , who saith by his minister , take , eat , drink ; offering himself to us under the signs , and commanding us to take himself by faith , as we take the signs by the outward parts . he giveth us the pardon of sin , sealed and procured by his body broken , and his blood shed . . a member of christs church , against whom no accusation may be brought from some contradiction of his first profession , must be admitted to the lords supper ; but the new baptized may be ordinarily such : therefore if he can but say , i am a baptized person , he hath a sufficient principal title to the lords supper , coram ecclesia , before the church . [ i mean such as we must admit ] though some actual preparation be necessary , unless he be proved to have disabled his claim on that account either by nulling and reverting that profession , or by giving just cause of questioning it . . the church hath ever from the apostles dayes till now without question admitted the new baptized at age to the lords supper , without requiring any new species of faith to intitle them to it . i take the major therefore as past denial : i must confess as much as i am against separation , i never intend to have communion with master blakes congregation , if they profess not saving repentance and faith , and if he exact not such a profession , i say still he makes foul work in the church , and when such foul work shall be voluntarily maintained , and the word of god abused for the defilement of the church , and ordinances of god , it is a greater scandal to the weak and to the schismsticks , and a greater reproach to the church , and sadder case to considerate men , then the too common pollutions of others , which are meerly through negligence , but not justified and defended . let master baxters own words judge him , who makes the same foul work in the ordinance of baptism by admitting infants to it upon a parents or proparents ( as he terms them ) profession , when all his proofs of the necessity of profession to go before baptism are of the profession of the party himself to be baptized , and this device of a parents or proparents profession instead of the infants , is his own invention that hath not any intimation in scripture , and by his own proofs makes infants capable of the lords supper , and perverts the nature of sacraments , which his own words do fully express , thus . pag. , . the first argument of master gillespies . is from the nature of sacraments , which are to signifie that we have already faith in christ , remission of sin by him , and union with him . the sense of the argument is , that seeing sacraments , ( according to christs institution ) are confirming signs presupposing the thing signified both on our part and on gods ; therefore none should use them that have not first the thing signified by them . though i undertake not to defend all the arguments that other men use in this case , yet this doth so much concern the cause of baptism , which i am now debating , that i shall give you this reply to it . what divines are there that deny the sacraments to be mutual signs , and seals signifying our part as well as gods ? and how ill do you wrong the church of god by seeking to make men believe that these things are new and strange ? if it be so to you , it is a pity that it is so ; but sure you have seen master gataker's books against doctor ward , and davenant , wherein you have multitudes of sentences recited out of our protestant divines , that affi●m this which you call new . it is indeed their most common doctrine , that the sacrament doth presuppose remission of sins , and our faith , and that they are instituted to signifie these as in being . it is the common protestant doctrine , that sacraments do solemnize and publickly own and confirm the mutual covenant already entred in heart , as a king is crowned , a souldier listed , a man and woman maried after professed consent : so that the sign is causal as to the consummation and delivery ( as a key or twig and turff in giving possession ) but consequential to the contract as privately made , and the right given thereby ; so that the soul is supposed to consent to have christ as offered first [ which is saving faith ] and then by receiving him sacramentally delivered , to make publick profession of that consent , and publickly to receive his sealed remission . master cobbet [ cited by you ] might well say , that primarily the sacrament is gods seal ; but did he say that it is onely his , and not secondarily ours ? and in the next words you do in effect own part of the doctrine your self , which you have thus wondered at , as new and strange , saying ; [ i confess it is a symbol of our profession of faith . if you mean as you speak [ taking profession properly ] then . you yield that the sacrament is our symbol , and so declareth or signifieth our action as well as gods . . and it is not onely a sign of our profession , but a professing sign , and therefore a sign of the thing professed ; for the external sign is to declare the internal acts of the mind , which without signs others cannot know . as therefore the words and outwards actions 〈◊〉 ●wo distinct signs of the same internal acts , so are they two wayes of profess●●● my signal actions do not signifie my words ( which are plainer signs the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore need not darker to express them ) but they both expre 〈…〉 mind ; so that they are not only symbols of our professi●● as you spea 〈…〉 t professing symbols . and if so , then they must be signs and professions of those internal acts , which correspond with them . the fourth argument of master gillespy is from rom. . . circumcision was a seal of that righteousness of faith ; therefore so is baptism , therefore it belongeth onely to justified believers . he that maketh it the instituted nature or use of circumcision to be a seal of righteousness of faith , which the person had before , doth make his circumcision a proof of his foregoing righteousness of faith . pag. . you cannot shew where ever the wicked are commanded to communicate with the church in the sacrament , but in this order ; first to be converted and repent , and so baptized , and so communicate , gillespy aarons rod blossoming , pag. , . the assumption [ that baptism it self is not a regenerating ordinance ] i prove thus . . because we read of no persons baptized by the apostles , except such as did profess faith in christ , gladly received the word , and in whom some begun work of the spirit of grace did appear ( i say not that it really was in all , but somewhat of it did appear in all . ) baptism even of the aged must necessarily precede the lords supper . pag. . my twelfth argument is from matth. . . [ friend , how camest thou in hither , not having on a wedding garment ? and he was speechless ] to [ come in hither ] is [ to come into the church of christ . ] by the wedding garment is undoubtedly meant , sincerity of true faith and repentance , so that i may hence argue : if god will accuse and condemn men for coming into his church , or the communion of saints without sincere faith and repentance , then it is not the appointed use of baptism to initiate those that profess not sincere faith and repentance . but infants profess not sincere faith and repentance , as is manifest by sense , therefore it is not the appointed use of baptism to initiate infants . pag. . the thirteenth argument is this : we must baptize none that profess not themselves christians ; but no infants profess themselves christians , as is manifest by sense , therefore we must baptize no infants . the major is certain , because it is the use of baptism to be our solemn listing sign into christs army , our , initiating sign , and the solemnization of our mariage to christ , and professing sign that we are christians , and we do in it dedicate and deliver up our selves to him in this relation as his own . so that in baptism we do not onely promise to be christians , but profess that we are so already in heart , and now would be solemnly admitted among the number of christians ; the minor i prove thus . . no man is truely a christian that is not truly a disciple of christ [ that is plain act. . . ] no man is truly a disciple of christ that doth not profess a saving faith and repentance , therefore no man that doth not so profess is truly a christian . the minor i prove thus : no man is truly a disciple of christ that doth not profess to forsake all contrary masters , or teachers , and to take christ for his chief teacher , consenting to learn of him the way to salvation : but no man maketh this profession that professeth not saving faith and repentance ; therefore no man that professeth not saving faith and repentance is truly a disciple of christ . the major is evident in the nature of the relation , the minor is as evident , in that it is an act of saving faith and repentance to forsake other teachers , and to take christ for our sole or chief teacher in order to salvation . . no man is truly a christian that professeth not to take christ for his lord and king , forsaking his enemies : but no man doth this but the professors of a saving faith . therefore , &c. . no man is a true christian that professeth not to take christ for his redeemer , who hath made propitiation for sin by his blood , and to esteem his blood as the ransom for sinners , and to trust therein ; but none do this but the professors of saving faith , therefore none else are christians . the major of all these three arguments is further proved thus : no man is professedly a christian that professeth not to accept of christ as christ [ or to believe in christ as christ ] but no man doth profess to take christ as christ , that professeth not to take or accept him as his priest , teacher and king ; therefore . &c. the major is plain in it self : the minor is as plain , it being essential to christ to be the priest , prophet , and king , and from these essentials related to us and accepted by us , doth our own denomination of christians arise , and that a bare assent without acceptance doth not make any one a christian is past doubt , and shall be further spoken to anon . if baptism then be commonly called our christening , and so be our entrance solemnly into the christian state , then is it not to be given to them that are not so much as christians by profession . and furthermore if a faith defective in the assenting part about the essentials of its object , serve not to denominate a man justly a christian , then a faith defective in the consenting or accepting part above the essentials of the object serveth not to denominate a man a christian ; but the antecedent is true , therefore so is the consequent . the antecedent is proved , because else the turks are christians , because they believe so many and so great things of christ ; and else a man might be a christian that denied christs death , or resurrection , or other essentials of christianity . the consequence is good , for christianity is as truly and necessarily in the will as in the understanding ; consent is as essential an act of covenanting as any . so that i may conclude that as he is no christian that professeth not to believe that christ is the priest , prophet , and king , so he is no christian that professeth not to consent and accept him for his priest , prophet , and king . the fourteenth argument is this : our divines ordinarily charge wicked men with contradiction of profession which is made in baptism , and they expound many places of scripture , which the arminians take as favouring their cause , to be meant according to the profession of wicked men . but it chargeth not such contradiction on persons baptized in infancy , therefore it supposeth no profession or baptism of theirs : and if we must baptize none that profess not saving faith and repentance , we must not baptize infants , who make no profession . pag. . argum. . if all that are baptized must engage themselves to believe presently ( in the next instant ) yea , or at any time hereafter , with a saving faith , then must they profess at present a saving faith ; or if we must baptize none that will not ingage to believe savingly , then must we baptize none that will not profess a saving faith ; but no infant will profess a saving faith , as is manifest by reason and experience , therefore we must baptize no infant . the antecedent is master blakes doctrine ; who affirmeth , that it is not necessary that they that come to baptism do profess a present saving faith , but its sufficient that they engage themselves to believe by such a faith . the consequence is proved thus ▪ . it is not the beginning of saving faith which we are to engage our selves to in the sacraments , but the continuance , therefore the beginning is presupposed in that engagement , and so we must no more baptize without a profession of faith in present , then without an engagement to believe hereafter ; the antecedent is proved thus ; there is no one word in scripture either of precept or example where any person in baptism doth engage , or is required to engage to begin to believe with a saving faith , or to believe with a faith which at present he hath not . shew but one word of scripture to prove this ( if you can ) if you cannot , i may conclude , that therefore we must not require that which we have no scripture ground to require . let master baxter shew but one word in scripture to prove this ( if he can ) that any person in baptism doth engage or is required to believe , or profess to believe that another , an infant may be admitted to baptism by virtue of it ; if he cannot , i may conclude , that therefore we must not require that which we have no scripture ground to require , nor admit any infant or other , by reason of a parents , proparents , or sureties profession or promise to believe for an infant . pag. . argum. . if there can be no example given in scripture of any one that was baptized without the profession ( and that his own , by his own self and no other parents , proparent or surety ) of a saving faith , nor any precept for so doing , then must not we baptize any without it ; but , the antecedent is true , therefore so is the consequent , and therefore we must baptize no infant , who makes no such profession , as all examples in scripture of any baptized are of , and every precept for baptism requires . let us review the scripture examples of baptism , which might afford us so many several arguments , but that i shall put them together for brevity . . i have already shewed that john required the profession of true repentance ( by the baptized himself ) and that his baptism was for remission of sin . . when christ layeth down in the apostolical commission , the nature and order of his apostles work , it is first to make them disciples , and then to baptize them into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and as it is a making disciples , which is first expressed in matth. so mark expoundeth who those disciples are by patting believing before baptism , and that we may know that it is a justifying faith ( of the disciple himself ) that he meaneth , he annexeth first baptism , and then the promise of salvation , math. . . mark . . [ he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved . this is not like some occasional mention of baptism , but its the very commission of christ to his apostles for preaching and baptism , and purposely expresseth their several works in their several places and order . their first task is to make disciples , which are by mark called believers . the second work is to baptize them , whereto is annexed the promise of their salvation . the third work is to teach them all other things , which are afterward to be learned in the school of christ . to contemn this order ( as master baxter doth in infant baptism ) is to contemn all rules of order : for where can we expect to find it , if not here ? i profess my conscience is fully satisfied from this text , that it is one sort of faith , even saving , that must go before baptism , and the profession whereof ( by the party himself to be baptized ; he that believeth and is baptized , not another then the believer , make disciples and baptize them , not others then the disciples made ) the minister must expect , of which see what is before cited out of calvin and i●scator . i shall be amazed reading this passage , at the blindness of master baxter , if he see not how unanswerably his own words overthrow infant baptism , or his hypocrisie , if being satisfied , as he saith , in conscience of his own exposition he do not deny infant baptism , and bewail his alledging of matth. . . in his book termed , plain scripture proof of infants baptism , part. . chap. . and i pray god to deliver me from such hardness of heart , be adds , that it was saving faith that was required of the jews and professed by them , acts . , , . is shewed already , and is plain in the text . acts . the samaritans believed and had great joy , and were baptized into the name of jesus christ , vers. . . whereby it appeareth that it was both the understanding and will that were both changed , and that they had the profession of a saving faith ( even simon himself ) acts . . the condition on which the eunuch must be baptized was [ if he believed with all his heart ; ] which he professed to do , and that was the evidence that philip did expect . paul was baptized after true conversion , acts . . the holy ghost fell on the gentiles , acts . . before they were baptized , and they magnified god . and this holy ghost was the like gift as was given to the apostles , who believed on the lord jesus ; and it was accompanied with repentance unto life , acts . , . acts . , . lydia's heart was opened before she was baptized , and she was one that the apostles [ judged faithful to the lord ] and offered to them the evidence of her faith , acts . , , , . the example of the jaylour is very full to the resolution of the question in hand . he first asketh what he should do to be saved ; the apostle answereth him ; [ believe in the lord jesus , and thou shalt be saved and thy house ] so that it was a saving faith that is here mentioned . he rejoyced and believed with all his house , and was baptized that same hour of the night , or straightway . it is here evident that he professed that same faith which paul required , acts . . [ crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue believed on the lord with all his house● and many of the corinthians hearing , believed and were baptized ] here we have two proofs that it is saving faith that is mentioned , those in acts . . were baptized as believers in jesus christ . in a word , i know of no one word in scripture that giveth us the least intimation that ever man was baptized without the profession of a saving faith . there is constantly this order in the prescribed duty , that no man should seek baptism but a true believer , and no man should baptize any but those that profess this true belief , acts . . philip is determining a question , and giveth this in as the decision [ if thou believe with all thy heart thou mayest ] and to say that this is but de bene esse , meaning that it includeth not the negative , [ otherwise thou mayest not ] is to make philip to have deluded and not decided or resolved . use that liberty in expounding all other scripture , and you 'l make it what you please . a dogmatical faith is not the christian faith , nor anywhere alone denominateth men believers in scripture . i remember but one text , john . . where it is called believing on christ ; and but few more where it is simply called believing , but none where such are called believers , disciples or christians , or any thing that intimateth them , admitted into the visible church without the profession of saving faith . i conclude that all examples in scripture do mention onely the administration of it to the professors of saving faith , and the precepts give us no other direction ; and i provoke master blake ( as far as is seemly for me to do ) to name one precept or example for any other , and make it good , if he can . i conclude that all examples of baptism in scripture do mention onely the administration of it to the same persons who in their own persons were professors of saving faith ; and the precepts give us no other direction . and i provoke mr. baxter ( as far as is seemly for me to do ) to name one precept or example for baptizing any other , and make it good , if he can , and if not , by his own reason he ought to baptize no other , but must reject baptism of infants who do not in their own persons profess saving faith , and give over his vain plea of parents or proparents profession of saving faith , as entituling infants to baptism , which ( unless his violence and wilfulness of spirit blind him ) his own words and arguments will inforce to do . pag. . argum. . is from pet. . . [ the like figure whereto even baptism doth also now save us : not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience toward god ] whence i thus argue : if baptism be appointed for our solemn admission into a state of salvation , as noahs ark received men into a state of safety from the deluge , then none should be baptized but those that profess that faith which entereth them into a state of salvation ; but no infant professeth that faith which entereth them into a state of salvation , as is manifest by sense and reason , therefore no infant should be baptized . here it is implied plainly that this is quoad finem instituentis , as to the end of him that instituted it , the common appointed of baptism , which the text mentioneth , though eventually it prove not the common effect through the errours of the receivers : and this appeareth , . in that it was spoken plainly in the text of the very nature and appointed use of baptism , and so of baptism as baptism , without any exception , limitation , or distinction . therefore it is not spoken of any different use that it is appointed for to the elect , as distinct from its common use to others . it s spoken of that signification and common use to which baptism is appointed , viz. to save , else we shall never be able to understand the use of it , or any ordinance from scripture , if we shall take liberty to say [ it is this to one , but not to another ] when the scripture saith no such thing , but speaks of the nature and use of it without distinction . else when it saith , [ circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of faith ] we may say with the anabaptists , it was so to abraham , but not to all others [ and when the lords supper is said to be appointed for the remembrance of christ ] we may say , that is but to some , and not to others , when as the text plainly speaks of the stated use of the ordinances to all . and in the type it is clear ; for it was not some onely , but all that entered noabs ark , that entered into a state of salvation from the deluge ; therefore so it is here as to the commanded use . . when baptism is said to save us , it s plainly meant of the state of salvation that baptism entereth us into and not of baptism ex opere operato , by the work done , effecting our salvation : and so baptism comprehendeth the state into which we are solemnly by it initiated . as a woman that is maried to an honourable man , or a souldier listed under an honourable commander , is said to be honoured , the one by mariage , the other by listing . where antecedent consent is the foundation on both sides of the honourable relations , and the subsequent state is the condition or state it self which is honourable , but the solemn signation is but the expression of the former , and passage to the later . . hereby it is apparent , that though the answer of a good conscience be the principal thing intended , and that saveth , yet the external baptism is here included as the sign and solemnization , so that when the apostle saith [ not the putting away of the filth of the flesh ] he means [ not the bare outward act of washing alone , or as such ] but baptism as it is entire , having the thing professed on ou● part , together with the professing sign . . it is therefore but by way of signification , obsignation and complemental exhibition , that baptism saveth , it being neither the fast or principal efficient or condition of it , but is valued as it is conjunct with the principal causes and condition for the attainment of these ends . . it is not a meer remote means leading towards a state of salvation that baptism is here affirmed to be , but an enterance or means of entrance into that state of salvation it self . as the heart-covenant or faith doth it principally , so baptism signally and complementally . this is plain . . because it is not said to help us towards a state of salvation , but expresly to save . . because the type which is here mentioned , viz. the ark , was such a means , that all that entered into it for preservation from the flood were actually saved from it . all this laid together doth confirm both the antecedent and consequence , of my argument . calvins words on the text signifie , . that no baptized men are excluded from salvation but hypocrites . . that they that are excluded from salvation for all their baptism are such as did dep●ave and corrupt it , and not justly use it . yet another argument may hence be raised , thus . argum. . if , according to the institution , the answer of a ●ood conscience must be joyned with baptism for the attaining of its end , then we must admit none that profess not that answer of a good conscience : but no infant doth profess that answer of a good conscience , as is manifest by sense : therefore we must admit no infant to baptism . but the former is certain from the text , for baptism is said to save ; that is , its appointed use , yet not the external washing , but the answer of a good conscience doth it ; therefore this is of necessary conjunction , and without it baptism cannot attain its end , but it is to be administred and received onely in order to the attainment of its end , and therefore never in a way by which the end is apparently not attainable . what this answer of a good conscience is , we shall further enquire anon . both the common exp●sitions fully confirm the point which i maintain . the assemblies annot. recit : both thus : [ hence by the answer of a good conscience we may understand that unfeigned faith , whereof they made confession at their baptism , and whereby their consciences were purified , and whereby they received the remission of their sin , &c. some understand by the answer of a good conscience , that covenant whereinto they entered at their baptism , the embracing whereof they testified by their unfeigned confession of their faith ] viz. such a faith as is aforesaid . pag. . argum. . no one may be admitted to baptism , who may not be addmitted a member of the church of christ . no one may be admitted to be a member of the church of christ without the profession of a saving faith ; therefore no one may be admitted to baptism without the profession of a saving faith . but no infant doth profess saving faith , as is manifest by sense , therefore no infant may be admitted to baptism . i speak of such admission to church membership as is in the power of the ministers of christ , who have the keys of his kingdom to open and let in , as well as to cast out . the major is past question , because baptism is our solemn entrance into the church , who were before entred by private consent , and accepted by the covenant of god . all the question is of the minor , which i shall therefore prove . . it is before proved that all the members of the church must be such as are visibly , solemnly , or by profession , sanctified from former sin , cleansed , justified persons of god , the heirs of the promise , &c. but this cannot be without the profession of a saving faith ; therefore , &c. . this is also before proved , where it was shewed , that no other are christians or disciples . . in acts . , . &c. the many thousand that were added to the church were such as gladly received the doctrine of saving faith and repentance , and continued in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer , and so far contemned the world as to sell all , and make it common . and doubtless no man continued in those ways ( of doctrine fellowship , prayer , &c. ) without the profession of saving faith and repentance , for the very use of these is such a profession , of which saith calvin in act. . . [ quaerimus ergo veram christi ecclesiam ; hic nobis ad vivum depicta est ●jus im●g● , ac initium qui●em facit a doctrina , quae veluti ecclesiae anima est , ( not as barely heard , but as professed and received ) nec quamlibet doctrinam nominat , sed apost●lorum ; hoc est quam per ipsorum nanus silius dei tradiderat : ergo ubicunque personat pura vox eva●gelii , ubi in ejus professione m●●nent homines , ubi in ordinario ejus auditu ad profectum se exercent , illic indubio est ecclesia &c. quare non temere haec quatuor recenset lucas , quum desserib●re vult nobis rite constitutam ecclesiae statum . et nos ad hunc ordinem eniti convenit , si cupimus vere censeri ecclesia coram deo & angelis , non inane tantum ejus nomen apud homines jactare ] therefore we seek out the true church of christ : its image is here painted to the life , and verily it begins from the doctrine , which is as it were the soul of the church , neither doth he name any doctrine , but of the apostles , that is to say , which the son of god had delivered by their hands , therefore wheresoever the pure voice of the gospel sounds , where men remain in the profession of it , where they exercise themselves to profit in the ordinary hearing of it , there undoubtedly is the church . wherefore luke mentions these four things not without just ground , when he would describe the duly constituted state of the church , and its convenient that we should endeavour to attain to this order , if we desire to be a true church in the sight of god and angels , and not onely to boast of the vain name thereof before men . and vers. . it is said that the lord added daily to the church such as should be saved . it describeth them that were added to the church viz. that they were such as should be saved , or as beza yieldeth to another reading [ and so grotius and many others ] such as saved themselves from that untoward generation [ qui sese quotidie servandos recipiebant in ecclesiam ] who daily added themselves to the church that they might be saved . the church is the body of christ , col. . . . and none are members of his body but such as either are united to him , and live by him , or at least seem to do so . the church is subject to christ , and beloved of christ , and cherished by him : we are members of his body , of his flesh , and his bones , ephes . . , . and those that are against the general redemption , me thinks should be moved with the consideration , that it is the church that christ gave himself for , even the visible church which he purchased with his own blood , acts . . ephes. . . and he is the saviour of his body , vers. . but so he is not effectively the saviour of the professors of a faith that doth not justifie : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} according to opinion , he is the effective savior of those that profess a justifying faith , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the sincere : but of others neither way . hitherto divines have gathered from the plain texts of scripture , that there is but one church , one faith , and one baptism ; and those that had this faith really , were to be baptized , and were real members of the church , and that those that professed this faith , and so seemed to have it when they have it not , are visible members of the church , and are so taken , because their profession is sensible to us ; and by that they seem to have the thing prof●ssed ; but pae●obaptists , and chiefly master baxter are fallen into new conceits in these . . they feign a new christian faith to themselves , to wit , a believing immediate by the faith of a parent or proparent ; so that before there was but one christian faith , and now they have made two . . and so before , there was but one sort of real , serious , or sincere christians , consisting of such as had that real christian faith , ( in their own persons ) and now they have found out another sort of them , to wit , believers by anothers faith . . so they have feigned a new baptism , for the old baptism was for remission of sin , and burial and resurrection with christ , and to ingraffe men into the church , which is the body of christ , upon the profession of a saving faith : but now they admit to baptism , as they term it , infants without any profession of saving faith , made by them to seal an imaginary covenant of grace made by god to believing parents and their seed , without any covenanting or sealing by the baptized person , upon a pretended title of parents and proparents faith , and instead of baptizing [ as of old they did ] by putting under water and coming out again , so as to resemble christs burial and resurrection , and their conformity thereto , they call that baptism , and say falsly they baptize when they onely sprinkle or pour water on an infant without such dipping , as of old master baxter pag. . confesseth was used and expressed by the apostle , rom. . , . . and they have feigned also a new kind of church : for the church of christs constitution is but one , which is called visible from mens profession , and invisible from the faith professed . but they have made a church which consisteth of a third sort of members ; that is , of men that neither have saving faith nor profess it , but onely are infants , whose parents or proparents have faith . . to this end they have confounded the church and the porch , the vineyard & the adjac●nt part of the wilderness : those that heretofore were not so much as catechumeni , o● men in preparation for the church , but onely designed to holiness , and hoped and expected to be in after time when they came to understand the christian faith , church-members , are now brought into it , and are annumerated to true christians , before they once profess themselves to be such . . and hereby [ by infant baptism ] also one of the two sorts of teaching , which christ distinguisheth , matth. . , . is taken away , to wit , that teaching which draweth men to christ , and maketh them disciples , and perswadeth them to receive christ jesus the lord . for they take him for a disciple ( so master b●xter of baptism , part . . chap. . ) that is not learning to be a disciple , yea , though he do not so much as submit to learn , nor hath learned any preparatory truths , though yet he be not made a disciple indeed , nor profess to be . master baxter is deeply offended with master t. for denying infants to be christians or members of the church mediately , &c. but i shall say somewhat more concerning those infants that are asserted by him to be disciples , who do not so much as profess a saving faith , viz. that they are no members of the church at all , and are not so much as to be named christians , nor to be admitted into the visible church . no man can prove that ever one man was admitted a church-member in all the new testament , without the profession of a saving faith . otherwise we should have two distinct churches specially different , or two sorts of christianity , and christians differing tota specie , in the whole kind , because the profession by a parent and proparent which is made by him , their qualification doth make a difference specifical between such christians and church-members , and other christians and church members . when the jaylor acts . , , , . was admitted into the church by baptism , it was upon the professing of such a believing , by which both he and his houshold might be saved , as is before shewed . and so of all others in those times . pag. . argum. . if we once admit men to baptism without their own personal profession , we shall be utterly confounded , and not be able to give any satisfactory resolution whose profession may be a sufficient qualification to entitle to baptism , and so never be able to practice the doctrine of pae●obaptism , as being utterly uncertain what infants to baptize . this might be manifest by considering the several conceits of paedobaptists , some whereof make the faith of the church sufficient , some the faith of albelieving nation , some of any ancestors , some of the sureties , some of the next parents , some of the parent inchurched , some of the parent or proparent , and this they claim by a covenant which they can extend to no other then the parent , who is believer , not onely by profession , but also really before god , which can be known to no administrator of baptism ordinarily . paedobaptists speak so much and purposely of this point , particularly master baxter of baptism , part. . chap. . that one would think we may expect an exact resolution of this point from him , if from any man , and yet he is uncertain what to fix upon , and if he resolve on any thing it is without proof , as is shewed by master t. review , part. . sect. . . exercit. argum. . . review part . . sect. . . . part. . sect. . &c. and i perceive that the stress of the differences between master baxter and master t. did rest much in this , and no wise man will leave his grounds till he see where he may have better ( especially when the grounds are so plain as those of the antipaedobaptists are from christs institution , matth. . . mark . . , . and the apostles practice , which master baxter hath here so amply proved to be of the baptizing onely of persons who themselves profess a saving faith ) unless he mean to be for nothing , or of no religion . no man can tell where to fix , nor what we must consent to , to procure a title , if we once forsake the present ground of the persons own profession of saving faith who is to be baptized . what is said to the contrary is answered in the books forenamed , and it is not meet to be still writing for those lazie readers , that had rather erre then be at the pains of reading what is already written . none are disciples upon the account of your other faith , but of either saving faith or the profession of it ; none are christians on the account of your lower kind of faith , but onely of saving faith or the profession of it . once for all i let you know , that i take saving faith to be the constitutive or necessary qualification of a real or mystical member ; and profession of that faith to be the qualifying condition of visibility of membership . i confess still that the sealis to others besides believers , but though the promise be conditional , we must not seal to any but those that profess consent to the conditions ; and therefore not to any but those that profess to be true believers . pag. . i find by sad experience ( to my sorrow ) that a considerable part of some parishes , or villages are ignorant of the fundamentals . i have spoken with abundance that that know not christ is god or man , or either ( but they say he is a spirit ) nor that the holy ghost is god , nor why christ died , nor that any satisfaction is made for our sins , or any thing done , or necessary to their pardon , but our own repentance and amendment , and with some that know not that the soul goes to heaven before the resurrection , nor that the body shall ever rise again . now i would know of master blake whether all the children of these parents must be baptized again or not ? for certainly these have not a dogmatical faith , which is the thing that he saith entituleth to baptism . and then what certainty have we that any of our ancestors had a true dogmatical faith : and i would know of master baxter whether such children are not to be baptized agian ? sure if he say no , how can he allow that baptism which is without a profession of saving faith ? if he say yea , how can he assure himself that any of our ancestors had right baptism ? me thinks few that hold master baxters tenets should allow of the baptism of the greatest part of english people who are no better then those master baxter mentions , and yet neither master baxter nor other paedobaptists do baptize such when they come to profess understandingly the faith of christ . pag. . my twentieth and last argument is drawn from the constant practice of the universal church of christ . it hath been the constant practice of the catholick church from the apostles practice till now to require that profession of saving faith and repentance , as necessary , before they would baptize ; therefore it must be our practice also . but it is otherwise in infant baptism , as experience shews , therefore the practice of it is not right . for the proof of the churches practice , . i have already said enough about the apostles own practice and the church in their days . . the constant practice of the church since the apostles to this day is undoubtedly known . . by the very form of words in baptism , and . by the history of their proceedings therein . . it is certain that the church did ever baptize into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . and as i have proved before , the voluntary seeking and reception of that baptism containeth the actual profession of saving faith . . it is certain that the persons to be baptized ( if at age ) did profess to believe in the father , son , and holy ghost . . it is also certain , that they did profess to renounce the flesh , the world , and the devil . . and it is certain that they promised for the future to live in new obedience , and thus they publickly entered the three stipulations ; credis ? credo : abrenuncias ? abrenuncio : spondes ? spondeo . doest thou believe ? i believe . doest thou renounce ? i renounce . doest thou promise ? i promise . it was the constant doctrine of the fathers and the church then , that faith and repentance ( given in vocation ) did go first , and that justification , adoption , and sanctification followed after . and so they took this justifying faith and repentance to be prerequisite to baptism , therefore they ever required before hand whether they believed in god the father , son , and holy ghost , and renounced the flesh , the world , and the devil ( as is aforesaid ) and caused them to profess this before they would baptize them . and as it is true of the ancient church , that they never baptized any without the profession of saving faith and repentance , so it is true of all the christian churches in the world that i can hear of to this day . the papists themselves do use the same words in baptism , as are before expressed , and require a profession . and though their false doctrine force them to misexpound their own words , yet custom hinders them from changing them ; and for the reformed churches it is past all question , by their constant practice , that they require the profession of a saving faith . the practice of the church of england till the late change , may be seen in the common prayer book , wherein all that is fore-mentioned is required , even from the infant , to whom the question is propounded , doest thou renounce ? doest thou believe ? wilt thou be baptized ? although they took the answer of the sureties as if it were the childes , and say in the catechism they now promise , and perform faith and repentance by their sureties . in the confession of faith of the assembly at westminster , cap. . and again in the shorter catechism , profession of faith in christ , and obedience to him is the thing required . they add also in the directory [ that all who are baptized in the name of christ do renounce , and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil , the world and the flesh . ] calvin in acts . . saith [ quod non admittitur eunuchus ad baptismum , nisi fidem professus , hinc sumenda est universalis regula , non ante recipiendes esse in ecclesiam qui ab ea prius fuerant alieni , quam ubi testati fuerint christo se credere . est enim baptismus quasi fidei appendix : ideoque ordine posterior est . deinde si datur sine fide , cujus est sigillum , & impia & nimis crassa est prophanatio . ] that the eunuch was not admitted to baptism till he professed faith . hence this universal rule is to be gathered , that those are not to be received into the church , who before were strangers from it , till they first testifie they believe in christ : for baptism is as it were an appendix to faith , and therefore is later in order : then if it be given without faith , of which t is the seal , t is a wicked and too gross a prophanation . here note . . that baptism ( as received ) is the seal of our faith ( how much soever denied by master blake ) as it is the seal of gods promise as administred . . that the constant order is that baptism follow faith . . and that it is no better then an impious profanation of it , if it go without faith ; that is . . if the party seek it without the presence of faith . . if the pastor administer it without the profession of faith . to like purpose speak many more , but to salve infant baptism they say that gods promise to an infant , whom they imagi●●● be born in the church , is instead of profession , that for it they by a judgement of charity are taken to be regenerate , and that it is as much as we have of persons of age , and is sufficient warrant to baptize them . but . they prove none of these . . nor are they true . . nor were they true would they warrant infant baptism , when the institution is ( as they confess ) to baptize them who believe by the preaching of the gospel to them , matth. . . mark . . . whereby the inadvertency of the generality of protestant divines in this point may be discerned , and by the reading of this book all intelligent persons may perceive master baxters deceitfulness or heedlesness , and , if he perfist in defending , infant baptism , his unreasonable pertinacie in his conceit , and , if he do not declare his forsaking his doctrine in his book of baptism , his impenitencie and unrighteous dealing with the church of god which he hath injured . anti-pædobaptism, or, the second part of the full review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism in which the invalidity of arguments ... is shewed ... / by john tombs ... tombes, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[ ], p. printed by henry hills ..., london : mdcliv [ ] imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism -- early works to . baptists -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion anti-paedobaptism , or the second part of the full review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism : in which the invalidity of arguments inferring a duty from a positive rite of the old testament concerning a positive rite of the new , by reason of analogy between them , is shewed ; and the argument against infant-baptism , from christs institution , matth. . . the sayings and practice in the new testament is made good against the writings of mr. stephen marshall , mr. richard baxter , mr. thomas blake , mr. thomas cobbet , mr. john cotton , dr. nathaniel homes , mr. robert bailee , dr. daniel featley , mr. john brinsley , mr. cuthbert sydenham , dr. henry hammond , mr. thomas fuller , and others . by john tombs , b. d. but speaking the truth in love , we may grow up into him in all things , which is the head , even christ. ephes. . . london , printed by henry hills , and are to be sold at his house at the sign of sir john oldcastle in py-corner . mdcliv . to the right honorable the lord president and council to his highness the lord protector . i presume to present to your honors a continuation of the full review of a dispute of which the first part was presented to his highness more than a year ago . to which writing i take my self many ways obliged , not onely because of my own engagements , but also , and that chiefly , by reason of the important concernment that the truth be preserved . i am sensible that the increase of books is thought a grievance by many , and that none are more unwelcome , than such as are about controversies , specially when they tend to unsettle men in what they have received , and in no point more than in this . few have abilitie to discern in disputes which part preponderates : few are willing to bestow pains in such unpleasant studies : few can digest a truth which exposeth to reproach and loss . these and other considerations had kept me from this adventure , if my allegiance to christ had not bound me to vindicate his truth , and charity to men tied me to endeavour their undeceiving . wisdom must be justified by her children : nor can he give a good account to christ at his appearing , who shall , out of undue respects , leave to spoil the truth with which he is intrusted . polemick writing are to few delightfull , yet necessary ; it being unlikely that practice of piey should flourish when doctrines of faith and worship are corrupted . they that decline studying and meddling with controversies , if they be not sluggish , yet are likely unwary , not heeding that thereby the wall is unrepaired , which should keep out seducers from perverting the churches . peace is indeed very desirable , but truth is put first , zech. . . were men better temper'd than commonly they are , dissenters might ventilate things in question with less offence ; i mention it with rejoycing , as a sign of gods presence with us , in hope that the same spirit of unanimity will diffuse it self among our christian brethren throughout the nation . that dissenters and contenders in writing , and otherwise , in this and other points , for their several judgments , have acted hitherto in the business of approving publick preachers with much harmony of minde , and agreement of votes ; surely the work of christ would be much advanced by a firm consociation in order to the work of christ so far as we agree , though there should remain , as no doubt there will , diversities of opinions in things disputable . nor do i despair that disputes will be mannaged with more sweetness of spirit , candour , and tenderness towards dissenters than formerly they have been . in this hope my intention is ( with gods assistence ) to prosecute the dispute begun , a part whereof i now tender to your honours , being desirous that my self , and the cause i mannage should stand right in your eys , who are the eys of the common-wealth . for whom i beg light from heaven toguide you in your way , and help from him , who hath been hitherto your strength , and who will be with you , while you be with him , and remain , london , june . . your honours humble and devoted servant in the lord , john tombes . the contents . sect. . of the reason and purport of this writing . sect. . that no good argument can be drawn from positive rites of the old testament to prove a divine appointment in positive rites of the new , nor is it true which mr. baxter saith that infants admission into the church is fully determined in the old testament . sect. . mr. blakes plea for arguments from analogy in meer positive rites of the old testament , and mr. baxters speech about infant admission as determined in it , are refelled . sect. . mr. baxters speech about the little sayd for antipaedobaptism is vain , and his speech about the antiquity of infant-baptism , is very inconsiderate ; and his speech about the difficulty and importance of the point in question ▪ is examined . sect. . the first argument against infant-baptism from the institution mat. . . mark . . and the practise in the new testament is urged . sect. . mr. blakes exception , against the major , that such institution or example as i require for inifant-baptism is unnecessary , is refelled . sect. . mr. marshalls exceptions that matth. . . is not the institution of baptism , that onely disciples are not appointed to be baptized , that this was a rule onely for a church to be constituted , are refelled . sect. . the exceptions of mr. cobbet , mr. blake &c. against the arguing from the order of teaching afore baptizing , of mr. marshal , mr. hussey , &c. that baptizing is discipling , are refelled . sect. . the exception of mr. marshal , mr. blake , mr. cobbet , that nations are appointed to be baptized matth. . . and so infants , is refelled . sect. . that infants of believers are not disciples appointed to be baptized , matth. . . sect. . mr. cottons allegations in his dialogue ch . . to prove infants disciples , are shewed to be insufficient . sect. . mr. baxters allegation of acts . . to prove infants disciples , is fully answered , and his arguments retorted . sect. . the arguments are vindicated which are brought to prove infants not meant by disciples acts . . sect. . infants discipleship is not proved by mr. baxter from lev. , . which speaks of the israelites being gods servants . sect. . that infants are not proved to be christs disciples from being subjects to christ , christians , belonging to christ , luke . , . matth. . . mark . . sect . dr. featlie and mr. stephens arguments from john . for infant-baptism , are answered , and baptism shewed not to be a cause of regeneration , and mr. cranfords words are considered . sect. . the . cap. of mr. baxters plain scripture-proof , &c. is answered , and mark . , , , . is shewed to make nothing for infants visible church-membership and baptism , and his description of visible church-membership is considered and his argument from deut. . . shewed to be insufficient . sect. . the . chap. of mr. blakes vindic. foeder : about christs speech of little children matth. . . is answered , and my sayings in my postscript vindicated . sect. . animadversions on mr. cobbets . just vindic. part . . ch . . and the arguings of dr. homes , mr. bailee , mr. fuller , mr. sidenham from the words and actions of christ to little ones are answered . sect. . the practise of infant-baptism is not proved , acts . . by baptizing an houshold , against mr. marshall , dr. homes mr. bailee , mr. cook , mr. sidenham , mr. fuller . sect. . that cor. . . proves not the practise of infant-baptism against mr. bailee , mr. cobbet , &c. sect. . mr. blakes argument from gal. . . is answered . sect. . mr. brinsley and dr. homes their conjecture from heb. . . to prove infant-baptism , is refelled . sect. . dr. hammond his way of proving infant-baptism from the jews baptizing proselytes children , is shewed to be vain . sect. . dr. hammonds elusion of matth. . . alleged against infant-baptism ▪ is refelled . sect. . dr. hammond neither from cor. . ▪ nor from sayings of ancients proves the apostles to have baptized infants . anti-paedobaptism , or a full review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism . sect . i. of the reason and purport of this writing , having by my postscript , antidote , addition to the apology , praecursor , and ample disquisition of the meaning of the ingraffing , rom. . the promise , acts . . the holinesse of children , . cor. . . formerly printed , endeavoured to vindicate my self , and the doctrine of anti paedobaptism , which i assert , from the objections which have been published to hinder the entertainment of it ; i now proceed with the divine assistance to review the dispute about infant baptism , which was made publick by the printing of my exercitation and examen of mr. marshal's sermon in the year . which is become the more laborious and tedious to me by reason of the many antagonists , and their several writings since published , notwithstanding the equal and serious motion i made in the epilogue of my examen , that i might see some one writing , either of the assemblies , or of their commitees , or the london ministers ( who in their attestation ceasur'd my positions as erroneous and pernicious ) in which the whole strength of the proofs for infant-baptism might be put together , and readers with my self eased of the trouble and charge of buying and perusing so many several writings , which some disclaim , and others magnifie . but this motion which would have quickly brought the matter to an issue , and made a shorter dispatch of the dispute than is now likely to be , being so far from meeting with a ready acceptance , that thereby an occasion was taken to misrepresent me as a braving challenger , and one that minds self-ost●ntation more than the truth of god ( which is an artifice unworthy the users ) and an opposite course taken to bear me down with a floud of injurious calumnies , and impetuous rather than considerate antagonists , i am put to this choice , either to weary my self by answering so manie several writings , or else give advantage to them who are ready to take all advantages how indirectly soever ( as appears by master baxters dealing with me about the dispute at bewdly , master simon ford of reading his dealing with me about the passages in the act at oxford . ) to possesse people with prejudices against me ▪ , and of the unanswerablenesse of what is brought for infant-baptism , if they can but pretend that it is declined , though it be neglected onely for the futility and feeblenesse of it . but the former being more eligible for the truths sake , i conceive my self engaged to proceed in the review of the dispute . the writings which with mine own i am to review , are either such as are directly written against me , or such as at least for the truths sake i conceive meet to examine , whether they meddle with my writings or not ; of the former sort are master stephen marshals defence of his sermon , master john gerees vindiciae paedobaptismi , and vindiciae vindiciarum , doctor nathanael homes his animadversions on my exercitation , master thomas blake his answer to my letter , and a great part of his vindiciae foederis , and most of all mr. richard baxter his plain scripture proof of infants church-membership and baptism ▪ and together with these , what mr. thomas cobbet of new england , in his just vindication hath thought fit to oppose against my examen , sent in a manuscript to new england , and delivered to him to examine , as mr. cotton informed me by his letter , though i be not named in mr. cobbets book others there are , which though they do not expresly oppose me , yet mr. m. mr. b. or some other , do direct me to them , as mr. cottons dialogue , vossius his theses , mr. baillees anabaptism , mr. drew , mr. church , mr. stephens , dr. featly , mr. lyford , doctor hammond , &c. mr. rutherfurd is one , to whose writing mr. baxter pag. . directs me , but i have not yet met with ●ame other thing which he hath written about this argument , than what i find in his temperate plea , chap. , . yet when any other thing of his , or any other authors , occurrs , which suggests any thing considerable , besides what others before have published , and is already answered , i do intend to take it into the review , and to deal impartially , as one that seeks truth , and is sensible that he is accountable to the lord about writing as well as speaking ; neverthelesse , in handling thereof , i shall not tie my self , any further than i see necessary , to set down each authors words at large , but so much of them as i conceive requisite , and according to their meaning , and the force of their arguments , as rightly as i can . the method i once intended to use in this review was according to the order of my examen , but i shall now use such an arbitrary method as i shall judge most clear and comprehensive , beginning with mr. richard baxter his three first chapters of the first part of his book fore-named . sect . ii. that no good argument can be drawn from the positive rites of the old testament , to prove a divine appointment in positive rites of the new ; nor is it true as mr b. saith , that infants admission into the church is fully determined in the old testament . master b. begins the dispute , pag. . with a preface tending to move affections , otherwise than pleaders before the aropagites were to do , and was desired of mr. b. that logick might be used , and rhetorick for born ; but however the preface is framed , and takes with many , yet so many mistakes in it are shewed in my praecursor , as might deterre readers from blinding their eyes by the dust raised in it . he then tells us he must needs lay down several positions that must necessarily be well understood before they could understand the point in hand , and these are no fewer than ten , which if they had been all omitted , i see not but that the point might have been as well understood as now it is . i do not remember where master b. makes any use of them for clearing the point , and therefore i judge them , with his three propositions , chap. . to serve onely to forestall mens minds , if they be not used to dull the readers attention ere he come to the point , as the turks use their asapi to blunt the christians swords by killing them afore their janizaries fall on . but what ever the intent was , there are sundry passages that require animadversions ; his first position is , that the holy ghost speaks of somethings in scripture more fully , and of others more sparingly , which i grant to be true ; but i like not his instance when he saith , that the scripture speaks little concerning the heathen that never heard the gospell , whether any of them be saved ? or upon what terms he dealeth with them for life or death ? far is it [ saith he , ] from my reach , to discover the holy ghosts mind in this : whereas me thinks the scripture speaketh much of this , ephes. . , , , . rom. . & . & . & . chapters . and to be doubtfull , whether they that never heard the gospel were saved , and upon what terms god dealt with them for life or death , is in my apprehension to be unresolved whether there be not another way of salvation than by christ ; whether a man living and dying a professed idolater without repentance , may not be saved by his moral dem●anour ; and whether pelagianism be not true , that by nature without grace men may be saved . vedelius in his book de deo synagogae charged barlet the arminian with a dangerous position in writing in verses before a book of manasseh ben israel the jew , that the god of iews and christians was one , and intimating that iews remaining in denial of christ might have god for their god , contrary to iohn . . and . ● . act. . iohn . . and . . . iohn . how much more dangerous a conceit must this be , much lessening the grace of god in christ , tending to pelagianism , and to make idolatrie a venial sin , to imagine that men that never had the gospel nor the prophets , but were such , even the best of them , as are described rom. . . &c. that they should be saved , when the scripture so plainly tels us , revel . . . . & . . that all idolaters shall be without ? but i leave master b. to doctor prideaux his lecture de salute ethnicorum to resolve him in this point . and whereas he saith the scripture speaketh sparingly of infants , it seems then some at least of his texts he brings for infants discipleship and visible church-membership are impertinent , sith they are so many ; and whereas he instanceth in the case of insant-baptism among such things as are not plainly determined in scripture , he doth thereby gainsay the title of his book , which he cals plain scripture proof of infants baptism ; nor is he relieved by what he replies in his praefestinant is morator , where nothing is brought out of his words , before or after , which shews i have not rightly alleged his words in my praecursor , sect. . and his words pag. . [ the grounds of it are very easie and plain , though to many it be difficult to discern how it is from those grounds inferred ] do confirm my observation , that he contradicted his title , sith the inference which is the proof , is in them confessed to be difficult . but what he saith in the words following , pag. , . is more exactly to be scanned , as touching the main basis of paedo-baptism . the new testament ( saith mr. b. ) speaks more sparingly of that which is more fully discovered in the old , what need the same thing be so done twice , except men had questioned the authority of the old ? the whole scripture is the perfect word and law of god ; & if he should reveal all his mind in one part , what use should we make of the other ? how silent is the n. t. concerning christian magistracy ? which made the anabaptists of old deny it ; where find you a christian in the new testament that exercised the place of a king , a parliament-man , or justice of peace , or the like ? so of an oath before a magistrate , of war , of the sabbath , &c. how sparing is the new testament ? and why ? but because there was enough said of them before in the old ; this also is the very case in the question in hand . the main question is not , by what sign members are to be admitted into the church ? or whether by a sign or without ? but at what age they are to be admitted members ? now this is as fully determined in the old testament , as most things in the bible , and therefore what need any more ? answ. mr. b. here asserts in the question about infant baptism , that it is as fully determined in the old testament as most things in the bible , at what age persons should be admitted members into the church , and therefore what need any more ? which if true , mr. b. had done well to have spared the allegation of mat. . . acts . . luk. . . . mat. . . mark . . rom. . , , , , , . mat. . , , . rom. . . . cor. . , mark . , . and . , , , . and others the allegation of act. . . and . . . cor. , . for infant-baptism , not troubling the reader with more , when , if he speak true , the proof might have been made by fewer texts ; frustra fit per plura , quod fieri potest per pauciora . and indeed when paedo-baptists speak not like wranglers , but ingenuously confesse the naked truth , they acknowledge there is no expresse precept or example for infantbaptism in the new testament , but they must flye to the old , master marshal in his sermon of baptizing infants , pag. . doctor young in the passage cited in my praecursor , sect. . eaton and taylor , defence , pag. . do not you conclude infants must be baptized , not because the new testament expresly saith so , but because you find it in the old ; the jews children were circumcised , therefore christians children must be baptized . the assembly at westminster answer to the dissenting brethren touching ordination , pag. . if par ratio will not serve turn to prove an ordinance of christ , or at least to warrant a practice , how will our brethren prove baptizing of infants ? which confessions me thinks should deterre paedobaptists fom alleging precept and practice of it out of the new testament ; or at least readers and hearers should learn more wit than to be cheated thereby , when their own confessions do shew that they are brought onely to fill up books , and to deceive the poor simple readers . but let us view mr. b. words better . he saith , the main question is not by what sign members are to be admitted into the church , or whether by a sign or without , but at what age they are to be admitted members ? now this is as fully determined in the old testament as most things in the bible . mr. m. in his defence , pag. . saith thus ; first , for the point of will worship i shall desire you to prove this conclusion , that all things belonging to christian worship , even in the circumstances of it , even the ages and sexes of the persons to whom the ordinances are to be applyed , must expresly be set down in the new testament ; if you prove not this , you say nothing to the purpose , for this is our very case , pag. . this about infantbaptism touches but a circumstance of age . answ. t is true , the main question is , whether infants are to be baptized ? but they that deny it , do so , not meerly because of their age , but because they appear not ordinarily to be disciples of christ , or believers , or capable of these in act . their admission by baptism is questioned because of their nondiscipleship , not precisely by reason of their age . mr. b. in his appendix to his plain scripture proof &c. pag. . and that in so material a thing as infantbaptism , and so about the proper subject of so great an ordinance ; and if you judge infantbaptism a meer circumstance , you are much mistaken . if the question about infantbaptism touch but a circumstance of age , then the question about infant-communion toucheth but a circumstance of age , and if men may without precept or example in the new testament of infant baptism be acquitted from willworship , because it toucheth but a circumstance of age , by the same reason they may be acquitted from willworship , who give infants the communion , because it toucheth but a circumstance of age . our lord christ and his apostles having determined who are to be baptized , it is manifest willworship or humane invention to baptize others than he and they have appointed ; and it is so much the worse , because it is not onely about the proper subject of so great an ordinance , but also the main end and use of baptism , by altering of which the ordinance is quite changed into another thing , and the church of god exceedingly corrupted . but letting that passe , admission of infants into the church ( mr. b. saith ) is fully determined in the old testament ; if he mean not the christian visible church , he speaks ambiguously , and if his words be meant of the christion visible churah ( of which onely is the question ) then it is as fully determined in the old testament , that infants should be admitted into the visible church christian as most things in the bible , as that god made heaven and earth , idols are vanities , fornication a sin , &c. but surely none will believe mr. b. in this , but he that is so simple as to believe every word . me thinks he should not have said such a word at bewdly , where he saith in his history , were many antient stayd christians , that would not as children be t●st up and down , and carried too and fro with every wind of doctrine , except he presumed they would take what he said , as true , without trial . formerly this was the received doctrine , that baptism was the sacrament of admission into the christian church , that baptism and the lords supper were the sacraments of the new testament , instituted by christ himself , that circumcision . and the passeover , and the whole jewish church policy are abrogated , which if true , it is very bold to say , that infants are to be admitted into the visible church christian , is as fully determined in the old testament , as most things in the bible , when there is not a word in all the old testament about the age , or way of admission into the visible church christian. but where doth mr. b. find this admission so fully determined in the old testament ? in the dispute at bewdly he denied the precept of circumcision to be the ordinance of visible church-membership , and in my praecursor , sect. i say , as yet i can fi●d no such law or ordinance for infants visible church-mem-bership save what is injoyned concerning circumcision . to w th he replies in his praefestinantis morator , what not yet ? and yet dare you boast so confidently of your prepared confutation ? yet can you find no law that made women church-members ? nor the uncircumcised males in the wilderness ? o the power of prejudice ! whereto i say , though i boast not of my prepared confutation , but speak of it modestly , yet i find no cause to be lesse confident of my prepared confutation , because of these frivolous interogations of mr. b. it is not the power of prejudice which is the reason why i find not a law or ordinance for infants visible church-membership , but because i do not see or read of law or ordinance for infants visible church-membership besides that of circumcision , either upon my own search , or mr. bs. or others shewing ; i asked once a preacher at bewdley where it was ? he told me it was deut. . , , , . i told him i find a relation of a fact , of a thing that was done , but not a word of any law , ordinance precept or command , determining thus it shall be , this shall be done ▪ &c. or any other form of speech that imports a law , ordinance , precept , statute or command to make female infants visible churchmembers ; much lesse do i find an appointment , law , ordinance , that some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church ( which mr. b. should have proved to be unrepealed , according to his assertion , cap. . . ) except the law of circumcising infants . and therefore my confutation of mr. bs. argument , cap. . might be sufficient , if i only denied such an ordinance or appointment , till it be shewed . i do confess my weakness in my answering at bewdley , in that i permitted mr. b. to run on in the proof of an ordinance unrepealed , afore he had shewed me where that ordinance is , but i perceived therein what i feared still , that i should not in a verball dispute observe what was necessary to be heeded . but i may say with truth mr. b. either understands not what is meant by a law , ordinance , appointment liable to repeal , or still binding , or loves to pervert words from the genuine sense , as he did the word [ accuse ; ] or else he is unwilling to speak plainly , who being provoked to shew in what text of scripture that pretended law , ordinance , appointment is , doth not yet shew it . and for his assertion here , it exceeds all faith , that infant admission into the church ( meaning the visible church christian ) should be as fully determined in the old testament , at most things in the bible . , but wherever , mr. b. imagines it is fully determined in the old testament , the assembly at westminster in their confession of faith , chap. . art. . allege but one text out of the old testament , viz. gen. . . . for admission of infants by baptism into the visible church , and if mr. m. their champion in this point expresse their minds , they deduce infant-baptism from this principle , all gods commands and institutions about the sacraments of the jews bind us as much as they did them in all things which belong to the substance of the covenant , and were not accidental to them . which how false it is , how contrary to the tenet of divines former and later , is shewed in my examen , part ▪ . sect. . to which i may add the assemblies confession of faith , chap. . art. . all which ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the new testament . and if all of them be abrogated , how can it be true that the law about circumcising infants still binds ? but mr. m. in his defence pag. . conceives his argument from the analogy of the ceremonial law of circumcision , which he calls his analogical argument , pag. . good ; on the contrary i deny any argument from analogy of the ceremonial law good in meer positive ceremonies to prove thus it was in the old testament , therefore it must be so in the new . and thus i argue , . arguments from analogy in meer positive rites of the old testament to make rules for observing meer positive ceremonies of the new wthout institution gathered by precept or apostolical example or other declaration in the new testament , do suppose that without institution there may be par ratio , a like reason of the use of the one ceremony as the other . but this is not true ; for in positive rites there is no reason for the use of this & not another thing in this manner to this end , by , or to persons , but the will of the appointer . for there is not any thing natural or moral in them , they have no general equity , they are supposed to be meerly not mixtly positive . therefore where there is not the like institution , there is not a like reason ; and therefore this opinion of analogy in positive rites from a parity of reason without institution in the new testament is a meer fancy , and no good ground for an argument . to apply it to the case in hand , circumcision and baptism are meerly positive ordinances ; mr. b. cals them , p. . positives about worship . generally sacraments by divines are reckoned among meer positives ; chamier . panstr . cath. tom. . l. . c. . sect. . nulla vera ratio sacramentorum potest consistere absque institutione . l. . c. . sect. . nullum sacramentum est à natura sua , itaque prorsus ab institutione . the places are innumerable in protestant writers and others to prove this ; were it not that i find my antagonists often forget what is elsewhere yielded by them , i should not say so much , the thing being so plain , that there is nothing natural or moral in them , because till they were appointed ( which was thousands of years after the creation ) they were not used , nor taken for signs of that which they signified . the reason ▪ then of baptism and circumcision is meerly institution ; if then there be not the like institution , there is not the like reason . this argument is confirmed by mr. m● . grant , defence , pag. . . the formal reason of the iews being circumcised was the command of god ▪ therefore there is not the like reason of infant-baptism as of infant-circumcision without the like command of god. but there is no expresse command for infant-baptism as mr. m. confesseth , therefore there is not par ratio , like reason of the one as the other . . i thus argue , if all the laws and commands about the sacraments , positive rites and ceremonies of the jews , be now abrogated , then no argument upon supposed analogy or parity of reason from the institution of those abrogated rites can prove a binding rule to us about a meer positive rite of the new testament . for how can that make a binding rule to us about another meer positive rite without any other institution , which it self is abrogated ? that which binds not at all , binds not about another thing , v. g. baptism . but all the laws and commands about the sacraments , positive rites and ceremonies of the jews , are now abrogated , as is proved in my examen , part . . sect . . and confessed by the assembly conf. of faith , chap. . art . . ergo none of them bind , this argument is confirmed by the words of mr cawdrey sabbat . rediv. part . . chap. . sect . . pag. . no ceremonial commandement can infer a moral commandement . the reason of our assertion is this , because partial commandments given to some nation or persons ( as the ceremonial precepts were ) cannot infer a general to oblige others , even all the world . again , sect. . pag. . first it is so in all other like special and ceremonial commandements concerning dayes , whensoever the particular day was abrogated , the whole commandement concerning that day was utterly abolished , the law of circumcision and of the passeover is expired as well as the sacramental and ceremonial actions commanded by that law . this mr. m. conceived he had prevented by supposing that in some commands about the sacraments of the iews , are some things that belong to the substance of the covenant , and limiting his assertion to those . and when in my examen pag. . i argued , that in no good sense it can be true that some of the commands of god about the sacraments of the jews contained things belonging to the substance of the covenant , he tels us pag. , . of his defence , that our sacraments have the same substance with theirs , the same general nature , end , and use ; which he makes in these things , theirs were seals of the covenant , so ours , &c. but none of all these are to the purpose , his allegations tending onely to prove that our sacraments and the jews have the same general nature , which he calls substance , but not a word to shew that any command about them belonged to the substance of the covenant , but as if he were angry , or did disdain a man should question his dictates , onely recites his meaning , and a passage or two of protestant authors , and never answers a word to my objection , exam. pag. . that in no good sense could it be true that some commands of god about the sacraments of the jews did contain things belonging to the substance of the covenant . yea when i animadverted on that saying in his sermon , the manner of administration of this covenant was first by types , shadows and sacrifices , &c. it had been convenient to have named circumcision , that it might not be conceived to belong to the substance of the covenant : i reply , saith he , in his defence , pag. . this is a very small quarrell , i added , &c. which supplies both circumcision and other things . which words in the plain construction of them do note , that circumcision is comprehended in his &c. as belonging to the manner of administration , not to the substance of the covenant . and yet pag. . he hath these words , i have already proved ( that is no where , no not so much as in attempt ) that circumcision though a part of their administration did yet belong to the substance ( meaning of the covenant of grace ) belong to it , i say , not as a part of it , but as a means of applying it . so uncertain and enterferring one another are his speeches about this thing . and yet this salve he adds is not true in any sense in which the word [ substance ] may be taken . for if he mean by [ applying the covenant ] the signifying christ to come , or the spiritual part promised , so circumcision was a type or shadow , and therefore according to his doctrine belonging to the administration that then was , not to the substance of the covenant ; if he mean by [ applying the conant ] sealing or assuring the righteousnesse of faith to mens consciences , neither doth this make it of the substance of the covenant , the covenant being made before , and though circumcision had never thus applyed it , the substance of the covenant had been the same , yea the covenant was the same in substance , according to his own doctrine , . years before circumcision did apply it to any ; now i do not conceive any thing is to be said of the substance of a thing , when the thing may be entire without it ; so that in this point i deprehend in mr. m. speeches nothing but dictates ; and those very uncertain and confused . secondly , saith he , pag. . when i say that gods commands about their sacraments bind us , my meaning never was to assert , that the ritual part of their sacraments do remain in the leas● particle , or that we are tyed to practise any of those things , but onely that there is a general and analogical nature , wherein the sacraments of the old and new testament do agree , which he thus a little before expresseth , my meaning being plainly this , that all gods commands and institutions about the sacraments of the jews as touching their general nature of being sacraments and seals of the covenant , and as touching their use and end , do bind us in our sacraments , because they are the same ; whereto i reply , that mr. m. supposeth the commands of god are about the general nature of being sacraments and seals of the covenant : which is a most vain conceit , there being no such command or institution , there 's no such command that sacraments should have the general nature of sacraments , or be seals of the covenant , or that they should signifie christ and seal spiritual grace : these things they have from their nature , as he saith , which is the same without any institution . the natures , essences and quiddities of things are eternal , invariable , and so come not under command , which reacheth onely to things contingent , that may be done , or not be done . did ever any wise man command to men that man should be a reasonable living body , or whitenesse a visible quality , or fatherhood a relation ? and to say that god commands sacraments to seal the covenant , what is this but to say that god commands himself ? for he alone by the sacraments seals to us the covenant or promise of christ , or grace by him . all commands of god are concerning what the persons commanded should do , and they must needs be of particulars , not of generals , for actio est singularium , action is of singular persons and things . though god may command man to think or acknowledge sacraments to be seals of the covenant , yet it were a most vain thing for god to command that sacraments should be seals of the covenant , or to have this general end or use , to seal or signifie christ , and spititual grace , to us , which belongs onely to himself to do by his declaration of his meaning in them . such commands as mr. m. imagines , are a meer chimaera , or dream of his brain . secondly , the like is to be sayd concerning his conceit , that such commands bind us in our sacraments ; for to bind us is to determine what is to be done , or not to be done by us ; but such imagined commands do not determine what is to be done or not to be done by us , and therefore cannot bind at all . thirdly , when mr. m. confesseth we are not tyed to the least particle of the ritual part or any practise of those things , he doth thereby acknowledge that all the commands of god about the sacraments of the jews , which were all about rituals , are quite abrogated . for all sacraments are rites or ceremonies , and to imagine a command about a sacrament , and not about a ritual part or ceremony , is to imagine a command about a sacrament , which is not a sacrament , chamier . panstr . cathol . tom. . lib. . chap. . sect. . arguing against suarez the jesuit , that dreamed of a sacrament appointed in the law of nature for remedy of original sin , yet had no determined ceremony , speaks thus ; sacramentum aliquod institutum à deo , ceremonia nulla determinata à deo , quis capiat ? sacramentum institui et ceremoniam non determinari ? aequè dixerit loquutum esse deum , et tamen vocem nullam protulisse , nam aequè sacramenti genus est ceremonia et vox loqisutionis . fourthly , were it supposed that there were some commands about the general nature of sacraments , binding us , though every particle and practice of the ritual part be abrogated , yet this would not reach mr. m. intent , which is to prove the command of sealing infants with the initial seal in force , binds . but to seal infants with the initial seal in force is not of the general nature of sacraments ( for then it should belong to the after seal as well as the initiating ) but after his own dictates of the special nature of the initial seal , and so mr. m. principle serves not for his purpose . thirdly , i argued thus , examen . part . . sect . . if we may frame an addition to gods worship from analogy or resemblance conceived by us between two ordinances , whereof one is quite taken away , without any institution gathered by precept or apostolical example , then a certain rule may be set down from gods word how far a man may go in his conceived parity of reason equity or analogy , and where he must stay ; for to use the words of the author , whose book is intituled grall● , if christians must measure their worship according to the institution and ceremonies of the jews , it is needfull that either they imitate them in all things , or else that some o edipus resolve this riddle hitherto not resolved , to wit , what is moral and imitable in those ceremonies , and what not . but out of gods word no rule can be framed to resolve us how far we must or may not go in this conceived parity of reason , equity , or analogy , ergo. the major is evinced from the perfection of gods word , and the providence of god to have the consciences of his people rightly guided . the minor is proved by provoking those analogists that determine from the commands about the mosaical rites and usages what must be done or may not be done about the meer positive worship and church-order of the new testament , to set down this rule out of gods word . this argument is confirmed by experience in the controversie between presbyterians and independents , jarring about the extent of infant-baptism , the elders in new england , mr. hooker , ( besides mr. ●irmin ) mr. bartlet , &c. restraining it to the infants of members joined in a church gathered after the congregational way as it is called . mr. cawdrey , mr. blake , mr. rutherfurd and others extend it farther , master b. plain scripture proof , &c. chap. . part . pag. . to all whosoever they be , if they be at a believers dispose . and both sides pretend analogy , which being uncertain , mr. ball after much debate about this difference , as distrusting analogy , determines thus in his reply to the answer of the new england elders to the . posit . posit . . and pag. . but in whatsoever circumcision and baptism do agree or differ ( which is as much as to say , whatsoever their analogy or resemblance be ) we must look to the institution ( therefore the institution of each sacrament must be our rule in the use of them , not analogy , and analogy is not sufficient to guide us without institution , and to shew that analogy serves not turn of it self to determine who are to be baptised , he adds ) and neither stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower than the lord hath made it , for he is the institutor of the sacraments according to his own good pleasure , and it is our part to learn of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred , how they agree , and wherein they differ , in all which we must assirm nothing but what god hath taught us , and as he hath taught us . which how they cut the sinews of the argument from circumcision to baptism , without wrong to master ball , is shewed in my apology , sect. . pag. . mr. m. in his desence , pag. . mr. blake pag. , . of his answer to my letter , seem to deny , that paedobaptists do frame an addition to gods worship from such analogy , the contrary whereof is manifest from the passages cited before . but mr. blake over and above , pag. . sets down three cautions , which being observed , then this kind of arguing from analogy and proportion is without any such pretended danger . the insufficieny of which cautions being shewed in my postscript to the apology , sect pag. . i conceive it unnecessary to repeat my words , which the reader may here find , and the vindication of them from what mr. blake opposeth in his vindiciae foederis , chap . follows in the nex : section . . i argued , that if this way of making rules binding men consciences in meer positive worship from analogy of the ceremonies or rites of the old testament , without institution in the new , be valid , then our christian liberty from the ceremonial law is made void . for by this way of determining things as of gods appointment , by our conceived analogy , al or a great part of the ceremonial law may be put on our necks under pretence of analogy , and so the fruit of christs purchase of christian liberty lost , and we in vain exhorted to stand fast in the liberty , wherewith christ hath made us free . for as chillingworth once told knot the jesuit , if the pope be made sole judge of centroversies , & infallible expositor of scripture , it will be in effect all one , as if he were allowed to make a new scripture and articles of faith ; and tyranny may be introduced as well by arbitrary expounding , as well as by arbitrary making of laws : so in this case the bondage of moses his law may be put on our necks , not onely by those that say , it binds in the letter , but also by those that say , gods commands about the sacraments of the jews bind us in the analogy and proportion . . this argument hath strength from the sad experience the church hath formerly and of late had in yielding to these reasonings from analogy , in the many canons of popes and prelates , heavily loading gods church with rites and decrees about them , imposed from analogy of the ceremonial laws of moses . the constitutions of popes , and canons of prelates , and the books of the maintainers of them expounding and defending their rituals , and liturgies , are full of them , to wit , rites about priests , their orders , garments , dues , festivals , sacraments , votaries , religious houses , and such like , drawn from mosaical laws . it is a common complaint of protestants and antiprelatists , that in imitation of the jews , under pretence of analogy , a new named iudaism hath been brought into the christian church , and the reforming of them like hercules his labour in clensing augias his stable some i have named in my examen , part . . s. . more i might . in the augustan confession among the articles of abuses , in the chapter of the ecclesiastick power , it s the general complaint , that popish writers made a worship in the new testament , like the levitical . i may use mr. bs words in his appendix to plain scripture-proof , &c. pag. . and indeed if all that is not contrary to scripture customs , and that mans vain wit can find reasonable from scripture , must be admitted , and that upon equal authority with scripture , if they do but take it for a tradition apostolical , then . it will set mans wit a work to make god a worship , or judge of the currantness of it , according to his reason ; and one man will think it reasonable and another not . . and what a multitude of ceremonies will this admit into the church , to the burthening of mens consciences , and the polluting of gods worship ? is not this the door that the body of popish trash came in at ? and the argument that hardneth them in it , and hindereth their reformation to this day ? and if you open this gap , what a multitude of fopperies will rush in ? certainly by this means the gospel hath been shadow'd and repressed ; no stint either hath been or could be put to the inundation of such impositions , as long as liberty hath been given under pretence of analogy with jewish rites to add to the worship and discipline of the new testament : but it hath happened according to austins complaint , epist. . to ianuarius , that the state of the jewish church under divine precepts hath been more tolerable , than the christian burdened with humane presumptions . ames bell. enerv . tom . . lib. . cap. . th . . romanenses in suis ceremoniis partim imitati sunt gentes , partim iudaeos . th . . ceremoniae hujusmodi tollunt discrimen illud quod deus voluit esse inter iudaeos & christianos , quia paedagogiam iudaicae similem habent . . if such arguments from analogy of jewish rites abrogated may be valid to impose on mens consciences things about the worship of god , then popes and prelates are not only unblamable and justifiable in so doing , but also protestants and non-conformists will be unjustifiable in no yielding to them , but opposing them . mr. church divine warrant of infant-bapt . pag. . in answer to these three latter reasons , speaks thus . arguing from the jewish types for the substance of those shadowes , tends neither to an introducement of judaism , nor yet to a justification of the quisquilian toyes of the papists : for it is neither arguing for the ceremonies of the jewish church , nor for the fooleries of the popish synagogue , but for privileges which the faithful may expect by christ , of which those ceremoni's were prenunciative , and are ceased , not because they were evil , but because we have the substance and truth of them , which is much better , non quia damnata , sed quia in melius mutata , august . answ. the objection was , arguing from circumcision for baptism of infants , is the way to introduce judaism , and to subject the church again to the whole burthen of jewish ceremonies : mr. churches answer is , arguing from the iewish types for the substance of those shadowes , &c. which answer is either meerly impertinent , or else he conceives arguing from circumcision for baptism of infants to be arguing from the jewish type for the substance of the shadow . which if he stand to , then he must make circumcision the type , and baptism of infants the substance of circumcision , which sure is not according to scripture , which makes christ the body , of which the ceremonies , and among them circumcision , was a shadow , col. . . nor doth mr. church prove any thing that he saith , but vainly dictate , when he makes arguing for infant baptism from circumcision to be arguing for privileges which the faithful may expect by christ , and makes circumcision a ceremony prenunciative of infant baptism ; against which , and the whole way of arguing from the use of jewish rites to christian from analogy without other institution , i further reason . . protestant divines do frequently deny the jewish sacraments to be types or figures of ours , ames . bellarm. ener . tom . . lib. . cap. . th . . sacramenta externa sunt figurae : figuras figurarum non instituit deus , that they figured or represented christ and his grace , not other sacraments ▪ cap. . th . . absque ulla ratione asseritur circumcisionem fuisse figuram baptismi : sacramentum non est signum visibilis sacramenti , sed invisibilis gratiae . therefore no right arguing by analogy from a jewish rite to a christian , which must suppose one to be a sign of the other , which is denyed by them . mr. church his speech is vain , that the apostle argues from the sacrifices in the iewish church , rom. . . heb. . . the offering of our selves , and the sacrificing of praises , which he calls the calves of the lips , &c. for . the apostle doth not argue at all , but only allusively calls the presenting of our bodies , and giving thanks , a sacrifice , and the calves of our lips , by reason of some resemblance : which if it be arguing in the use of every metaphor there is arguing . . were it arguing , yet it is not to the purpose , sith it is not any arguing from the use of one rite to another by analogy , but from a rite to a moral duty , to wit , devotion and thanksgiving . and when he adds , and from sealing the promise by the initial sacrament to infants of gods people aforetime , may the sealing of the promise by the initial sacrament to infants of christians in this dispensation be rightly argued ; sealing the promise , being the substance of circumcision and benefit intended by it : and such arguing hath no colour of setting up iudaism , for arguing for the thing signified tends not to the introducement of antiquated ceremonies , he doth but write at random . for if the reason of his assertion be pettinent , then he must hold , that sealing the promise by the initial sacrament to infants of christians in this dispensation is the substance of circumcision and benefit intended by it . but it is either unintelligible to me in what sense the sealing of the promise by baptism to infants of christians can be the substance of circumcision , and the benefit intended by it , or else it is very absurd . for then it will plainly follow , . that till infantbaptism of christians , circumcision was without its substance , and the benefit intended by it . . he makes infant baptism the thing signified by circumcision , and the substance of circumcision , and so one ceremony signifies , and is the substance of another . but however we judge of his unintelligible or absurd arguing , it appears not by his answer but that the way of arguing by analogy from circumcision to baptism , that is from the regulating our practice in a rite of the new testament by a rite of the old , as obliging our consciences , may and doth introduce judaism , and other evils , as was objected . mr. blake answer to my letter , pag. . seems to put by this arguing of mine , by advising me to read over bellermine , and tell him then whether his arguments to lay the sacraments of the iews as low as types , and to extol the sacraments of christians as their antitypes , be not the self same that i and my party make use of to make so large a difference between circumcision and baptism . protestants deny them indeed to be types , because they assirm they are in substance the same , our doctrine keeps us at a distance from bellarmine , when you are in this reconciled to him , making the same differences as he doth between circumcision and baptism . answ. had m. blake directed me to the place in bellarmine , he would have me seriously read over , i should have done it . but now not well knowing what place in bellarmine he would have me read , and the reading him all over , and that seriously , being a very tedious task , i do not gratifie m. blake in his request : but to what he saith , i reply , i put sundry differences between circumcision and baptism in my examen , part . sect . . which mr. m. his defence doth not shew to be false . if they , or any other i make , be the same with bellarmines , and yet true , mr. blake doth causelesly except against me for agreeing with bellarmine ; sure it is no matter of blame to agree with the devil himself in the truth , it is no evill to believe there is one god , because the devils do so , james . . but how this should reconcile me to bellarmine in that which i except against him , that he makes the jews sacraments types of ours , is to me unintelligible . . dr. ames his words shew , that therefore he denied that circumcision was the figure or type of baptism , because a sacrament is not a sign of a visible sacrament , but of invisible grace , and that god hath not appointed figures of figures , or types of types , but types of some body or substance . the reason m. blake gives why they are not types , because they are in substance the same , i know not what protestants do give , whoever they be that do say so , in my apprehension , either they speak non-sense , or false . sacraments being nothing but actions used to some ends , according to appointment , what substance they should have , but the actions and the use , i understand not . now that the actions are not the same , it is manifest , cutting off a little skin , killing , roasting ▪ eating a lamb , being not the same with washing the body with water , and breaking and eating bread , and drinking wine ; and for their end and use it is certain , however they may agree in some things , yet those being generals , and accompanied with more differences in their end and use both general and particular , it may be with greater reason denied , that they are the same in substance , than averred that they are : and arguments drawn from the one to the other concerning their use , are from things unlike , as much as like , yea denied by the users to be types , figures or signs , the one of the other , and therefore cannot infer a parity in the thing questioned , without institution . . the ceremonies of the jews are now not only mortal , but dead , buried , and deadly , according to the received doctrine ; yea , some condemn not only the use of them formally , but also materally ; rutherford divine right of church-government , introd . sect . . pag. . saith , it is a false ground of the prelates , that circumcision , a passeover lamb , and all the jewish ceremonies , though with another endand intention than to shadow forth christ to come in the flesh , are indifferent . riv. on exod , . walaeus are cited by mr. cawdrey , sab. red. part . . c. . pag. . to the same purpose ; therefore not to be revived , no not in effigie by following any rule about them , as by analogie , or proportion between them and ours , without like institution binding us . . arguments from analogie in positive rites , without institution in the new testament , except god declare either by general rule , or particular example he allowes such arguments , are but humane inventions , as not being from the spirit of god , ( for that speaks only in the word about doctrines , but from mans reason : but such are the arguments drawn from a positive rite of the old testament now abrogated , to regulate our practice in the sacraments of the new , as obliging our consciences . therefore they are against the second commandment in the decalogue , our saviours words mat. . . in vaiu do they worship me , teaching for doctrines mens precepts ; it is tyranny and usurpation in them that impose them , and violation of their liberty , forbidden by the apostle , col. . . in them that submit to them . davenant exhort . to brotherly commuunion , ch . . tells us , that luther wisely admonisheth us , that in matters surmounting the capacity of humane reason , we beware of etymologies , analogies , consequences and examples . . arguments from conceived analogy , are but arguments from that which is like , not the same : but such are but weak things . proportions are weak probations , said m. rutherford , due right of presbyt . ch . . sect . . pag. . chamier panstr . cath. tom . . lib. . c. . s. . deinde sunt hujus generis conclusiones magis verisimiles quam necessariae nisi nitantur diser to dei verbo . oxford convocat . reasons against the covenant , pag. . the arguments à minore and à majore are subject to many fallacies , and inless there be a parity of reason in every requisite respect between he things compared , will not hold good : they do illustrate rather than prove ; and therefore they that assert that poedobaptism si fully determined in the old testament , where they have nothing but analogy from circumcision , and the jewish church state , what ever their confidence be , do but shew their weakness . i shall now examine what master blake saith in answer to my arguments , and then what mr. b. brings for his speech above recited . sect . iii. mr. blakes plea for arguments from analogy in meer positive rites of the old testament , and mr. bs. speech about infantadmission as determined in it , are refelled . master blake vindic. foederis ch . . sect . . speaking of me saith . and to this end he sets himself , first to dispute down all arguments à pari , all whatsoever that are grounded on parity of reason , or analogy and proportion . this he speaks to in his examen pag. . and i may here fitly refer the reader to that which i have written chap. . sect . . of my answer to m. t. only in a few words viudicate it from his exceptions against it in his apology , page . and page . he saith , the reader will hereafter find me reasoning with my full strength against the force of all arguments à pari . answ. it is not true , that i set my self to dispute down all arguments à pari , all whatsoever that are grounded on parity of reason , or analogy and proportion . for in the place cited examen pag. , . i do expresly level my arguing against arguments from analogy onely in positive instituted worship consisting in outward rites , such as circumcision , baptism , and the lords supper are , which have nothing moral or natural in them , but are in whole and part cetemonial . . i do dispute against all such arguments , not as brought to illustrate or confirm a thing otherwise proved from institution , but when they are brought to infer divine institutions and commands obligatory of mens consciences . i had said exam. part . . s. . pag. . to me it is a dangerous principle upon which they go that so argue , to wit , that in meer positive things ( such as circumcision and baptism are ) we may frame an addition to gods worship from analogy or resemblance conceived by us between two ordinances , whereof one is quite taken away , without institution gathered by precept or apostolical example . mr. blake answer to my letter pag. asks who those be ? i told him that he did birth-privilege pag. . ( i should have said ) and i mean those words , upon this ground ( the covenant ) infants under the law were circumcised , and upon the same ground infants are now to be baptized : by the grounds of both circumcision and baptism we inforce the baptism of infants : what is objected against one concludes against both : circumcision and baptism are therefore by the apostle promiscuously taken ; there being the same principal and main end of both . but he saith now vindic. foederis pag. . in my whole discourse i did studiously avoid arguments drawn barely from analogy , so that we may see how willing mr. t. is to quarrel , and how loath to speak truth . answ. there was nothing but truth and fair arguing in my apology pag. . for though mr. b. denies his argument to be barely from the analogy between circumcision and baptism , by which he hid inforce the baptism of infants , yet his arguing from the grounds of both , without institution gathered by precept , or apostolical example , is barely from analogy . analogy or proportion i neither did imagine nor conceive mr. b. made in the likeness , resemblance , or evenness in the ritual part of circumcision and baptism , that is the cutting off the skin , or the washing the body , as if he did argue , infants had a skin cut off , therefore infants are to be washed with water : but the analogy i conceive made by him between them , is in the supposed parity of reason , taken from ( as he calls them ) the grounds of both , secluding institution , as my words shew , examen pag. . and postscript pag. . now this mr. b. doth in the words cited , arguing from the covenant , the same principal and main end of both , and thence dictating what is objected against one concludes against both , and asserting ( though falsely ) that circumcision and baptism are therefore by the apostle promiscuously taken , and mentions not the distinct institution of infant-baptism from infantcircumcision , but as if he counted them the same , yea as if he meant them all one , imposeth on the apostle as if he took baptism and circumcision promiscuously : wherein he argues from bare analogy ( if not identity ) between them without institution . and therefore i do still charge him with arguing according to that principle , which he saith , is as dangerous to him as to me . but he hath yet another shift . in case , saith he , i had by analogy with circumcision made proof of infants title to baptism , it would not have freed him from calumny , seeing it is no addition to worship , baptism is worship as circumcision was , this is but a demonstration of the latitude and extent of it . answ. there is no calumny in it . for he adds to gods worship who doth make something worship of god , which he hath not appointed , as non-conformists did argue in their negative argument against the bishops ceremonies from deut. . . and though the conformists did allow some addition to gods worship in indifferent ceremonies , yet they agreed that to make any such addition as necessary binding the conscience , or part of gods worship , specially when it is in things determined by institution , was unlawful . now god hath appointed expresly disciples or believers in christ to be baptized , mat. . . mark . . and no other , and this is his instituted worship ; he then who baptizeth infants who are not disciples or believers , and doth this as gods worship , doth add to the worship having no institution gathered by precept or apostolical example : nor doth he demonstrate , but devise a latitude and extent of the worship of his own head , or worships god after the precepts of men . as for the words , it is no addition to worship , baptism i● worship as circumcision was , they seems to intimate , if there be any reason in them , than infantbaptism is no addition to worship , because baptism is worship as circmcision was , which imports , that there could be no addition to worship in adding to baptism , because it is worship as circumcision was , whereas the reason is better to the contrary , that it being not commanded infant baptism is addition to worship , because baptism is worship as circumcision was . mr. blake goes on . it runs in mr. t. his head that we go about to find not a baptism-institution , but an infant-baptism-institution , and that barely by analogy from circumcision . this i confess were a wild undertaking . answ. t is true , i did think mr. m. in his sermon pag. . when he said , baptism was instituted long before ( that command mat. . . ) to be the seal of the covenant , had sought its institution from gen. : and in his defence i find not that which might take me off from that conceit . and it still runs in my head that mr. blake must either find not onely a baptism-institution , but also an infant-baptism-institution , or else we must yield infant-baptism a corruption of that ordinance , whether it be called will-worship , or profaning it , or what other sin that corruption be termed . as he that will acquit prayer to saints , or for the dead , from corruption , must find not onely an institution of prayer , but also of prayer to saints and for the dead ; he that will acquit infant-communion , bell-baptism , &c. from corruption , must find not onely an institution of the communion and baptism , but also of infant-communion and bell-baptism . i agree , that it were a wild undertaking to go about to find an institution of infant-baptism , especially gen. . because it is not to be found there , or in any other part of holy scripture , and yet i think paedobaptists do go about to find an institution of infant-baptism , and that barely by analogy from circumcision , as i shew before , and therefore by mr. blakes own censure their attempt is a wild undertaking . he addes . neither i nor mr. t. to help me , can find an infant-circumcision-institution . if he instances gen. . . he that is eight dayes old shall be circumcised among you , every man-child in your generations ; i say that is no institution of circumcision , but a subsequent directory for the particular day ( according to the paedagogy of those times ) when the person was to be circumcised . the institution we find not with restriction to infancy , but in that latitude as to comprize males of any age , v. . this is my covenant which ye shall keep between me and you , and thy s●●d after thee , every man-child among you shall be circumcised . mr. t. knows very well , that by man-child onely the s●x and not the growth is distinguished , omnis mas , as junius and tremellius , every male , as anisworth reads it ; if that after directory had not followed , they might have circumcised ( as we baptize ) infants upon any day at our best conveniences . this is plain in the text , and may be further cleared ; if the institution it self be with that limit of time to the eighth day , then it had been their sin ( according to mr. tombs , the sin of will-worship ) in case that time through negligence had slipt , to have circumcised them another day , as it was for a man unclean , or in a journey on the th day of the first moneth ( the time appointed for the passeover ) to observe it any other day , till god appointed the th day of the second moneth for such occasions , num. . , , . but that they had their liberty by vertue of the institution to circumcise any other day , when that was over , is clear in the text , and may be farther made plain , that abraham so understood it by his circumcising of ishmael at years , which had been without warrant , had there been an institution only for children of eight dayes ; when god was displeased at moses his neglect of the circumcision of his son , exod. . . yet he was pleased that he was after circumcised v. . so that as there was an institution in old-testament-times , for all males in covenant without difference of age ; so there is in new-testament times an institution of baptism for all in covenant without difference of age or sex . answ. mr. blake saith , neither he nor i to help him can find an infant-circumcision-institution , and yet he himself finds , gen. . . an institution in that latitude , as to comprize males of any age : if there be an institution to circumcise males of any age , then there is an institution to circumcise male infants , who are of some age . and therefore it seems to me a wild speech of mr. b. to deny the finding of an institution of infant-circumcision , when he himself sets down the institution of it within a few lines of those words . but he conceives it no institution of circumcision gen. . . to which i say , be it subsequent directory , or what ever else he will call it , mr. blake might easily perceive by my words , examen pag. , . and elsewhere , i take the word institution for any appointment by precept , command or example approved , either express , or gathered by good consequence ; if any of these wayes an institution of infant-baptism can be shewed out of the new testament without the analogy of circumcision , i should not make any doubt of it , and therefore it is but unnecessary wrangling which he useth about the word [ institution ] . let him shew any subsequent directory for infant-baptism , as is for infant-circumcision without the analogy of circumcision ▪ and i am satisfied . yet to shew the vanity of his speeches and arguings i shall a little scanne them , he denies an institution of infant-circumcision , gent. . . he saith , it is but asubsequent directory for the particular day . answ. ausonius popma de differ . verborum l. . institutines sunt praecepia , quibus docentur homines atque instituuntur . in this general acception a directory is an institution . but were it taken strictly for a command establishing that ●ite , surely v. . not onely the particular day was appointed , but the person also , to wit , the infant of eight dayes old among abrahams people , and all the verses , , , . together are termed sanctio circumcisionis , by pareus in his commentary . but we find not the institution with restriction to infancy , saith mr. blake . ans. true , nor did i ever say the institution was restrained to infancy , or that there was an institution only for children of eight dayes , nor do i deny that the precept gen. . . was more general than that it should be restrained to the eighth day : yet v. . the circumcising of infants was limited to the eighth day . mr. cawdrey sabb. rediv. part . . pag. . for some particular occasions of worship , god was pleased of old to determine some time exclusively , as the eighth day from the birth of a child for circumcision , and the eighth day for the sacrificing of the firstling males of cattel , neither sooner nor later . nor do there want those among protestant divines , who make it unlawful to do it before or after but will-worship , except in cases of necessity , as in the wilderness , &c. in which case the rule holds , god will have mercy and not sacrifice , and the thing might be done afterwards , as in the circumcision of those who were born in time of their travel in the wilderness . but to have altered the time of a mans own motion , without such necessity , had been will-worship , as it was charged on jeroboam kings . . that he sacrificed in the moneth he had devised of his own heart . what mr. blake saith , there is in the new-testament-times an institution of baptism for all in covenant , without difference of age or sex , is false , except by being in covenant he understand , not being in covenant by gods promise onely , or others faith , or undertaking for them , but by their own act of covenanting , that is engaging themselves in their own persons by their , own act to be christs disciples or believers in him , there being no institution in the new testament times of baptizing any other than disciples or believers in christ. mr. blake adds . i instanced in the apostles argument from analogy for ministers maintenance , cor. . . tim. . . mr. tombs answers , the apostle doth not by bare analogy conclude ministers maintenance , but from the lords ordinance ; he does conlude it then ( by his confession ) from analogy , though not barely from analogy . neither have any one of mr. t s antagonists concluded infant baptism barely from analogy of circumcision . there are other arguments which wait for his answer , so that this instance stands . answ. my confession was not , that the apostle argued from any such analogy as paedobaptists conclude infants-baptism from , to wit , the rule of circumcision , thus , circumcision was appointed to infants in covenant , therefore baptism is appointed to infants in covenant , they having the same main and principle end to seal the covenant of grace ( which is mr. blakes own arguing ) which is from a ceremonial rite of the old testament to a ceremonial rite of the new , without precept or example of christ or his apostles . for . the apostles argument cor. . . seems not to me to be from analogy , but a testimony explained . so mr. dicson in his com. arg. . a testimonto legis de pabulo bovi trituranti dando : quod ostendit dictum esse in gratiam omnium laborantium in aliorum usum , potissimum in ministerio . diodati , the end of gods law is not to shew how cattel should be fed , but to command equity to be used in just rewarding of those who labour for us . mr. blake himself vindic ▪ foederis pag. . thirdly he argues from the command of the law : . if it be from any analogy , it is in things that have a parity of equity , and so it is in moral things , which are perpetual , not in meer positive rites . . it is an analogy which the apostle delivered to us , not analogy made by men not guided by an infallible spirit , as is the inference of paedobaptism from circumcision , and therefore is not of force to oblige mens consciences ▪ i have shewed before that the paedobaptists main argument is barely from such analogy , and for other arguments waiting for mine answer , either they are answered before sufficiently , o● god assisting , will have answer in this review . mr. blakes arguments vindic . foede . ch . . sect . . require no longer answer . the first is the same with mr. bs. second . and the major is to be denied , if by [ unless order be given to the contrary ] be meant of order given to the contrary in formal positive terms , such as this , thou shalt nor baptize infants . if it be meant of order given to the contrary , either in express formal prohibitive terms , or equipollent , the minor is to be denied . in the second the major is to be denyed , and in like manner the third , distinguishing the term [ holy ] in the fourth both the major and the minor , and so likewise the fifth , explaining the term [ church privileges ▪ ] in the sixth the major is to be denyed if understood of the invisible kingdom of god only , if of the visible , the minor is to be denyed : in the other two additionals , the major if universal is to be denyed , and the minor is true of infants of unbelievers as well as believers . and for the last argument the matter is as easily answered as the form . for the major , those that are to be saved are to be added to the church by baptism , act ▪ . . is to be limited by the text v. . thus [ when they willingly receive the word ] if no larger answer be given mr. b. to these arguments , yet this will be enough to shew they are without much difficulty answerable . mr. bs. proofs likewise , god assisting , shall have fuller answer than they deserve , though were it not for his own and others conceits of his writings for infant-baptism , i should think it lost time to bestow it in an exact examination of his inconsiderable dictates . as for the present instance of m. b. of the apostles arguing from analogy , he may see it now fallen , and so likewise the next , of which he speaks thus . i instanced in the apostles arguing cor. . , . he makes it good that partaking together of the sacrament of the lords supper , we are made one ecclesiastical body , by way of analogy with the like in the sacrifices of the jews , yea in the sacrifices of the gentiles ; to which mr. t. saies , this argument is to prove , that they which profess christ may not partake of the things of idols . from this general truth , that they which join in the service of any god , they hold communion with that god , and are one with those that worship that god ; this the apostle proves by instances in the christian and jewish services . so that this argument is from a genoral truth proved by induction of instances . mr. t. mistakes , the apostle takes no such general truth for granted , but affirms that we are one body at the lords table , which he first proves by analogy in the instances mentioned , and then concludes thence against communion with idols ; that which the apostle disputes he l●ies down , but we have not these words in the text . answ. there is no mistake in my analysis of the apostles words . he had v. . warned them of idolatry , to wit in going with the infidels to their idol feasts , and to make them more heedful of what he said he prefaceth , v. . and then argues : not thus , they that partake of the lords supper are made one ecclesiastical body by way of analogy with the like in the sacrifices of the jews , yea in the sacrifices of the gentiles ; for then the conclusion to be proved should be , we are one body ecclesiastical at the lords table , and the sacrifices of the gentiles should be the medium to prove it , which had been ursi for such a proof , nor in any passage of the apostle is used to that end . for how inept an argument had this been , the gentiles in their sacrifices had communion with the idol , therefore they that partake of the lords supper are made one body ecclesiastical ? nor would the proof be much otherwise if it were thus ( as mr. blake makes it ) we are one body ecclesiastical who partake of the lords supper , therefore in gentile sacrifices we communicate with idols . and me thinks there is a circle in this proof , by the gentiles sacrifices to prove we are one body ecclesiastical in the lords supper , and thence to prove we communicate with idols in gentile sacrifices . but the scope of the apostle appears by the words , v. . and v. , , . evidently to be the disswading them from the idol-feasts on their sacrifices , because they had therein fellowship with the idol , did partake of its cup and table , and so with devils v. , . which had been an argument in concludent , were it not thus made , to have fellowship with the idol is evil to be avoided by christians , as being communion with devils . but to partake of the thing offered to idols is to have fellowship with the idol . ergo , the minor , which alone is proved , rests on this general maxim , they have fellowship with a true or supposed deity , who partake of his service , and this the apostle proves to be true by the instances of the christians and the israelites , v. , , . i know sundry protestant expositors make the argument to be thus , ye may not partake of the idol banquets , because ye are partakers of the lords supper . but i conceive this not right : for v. , . the apostles medium is not from the matter of fact what they did , or duty what they were to do , but from the tendence of their action in common construction and interpretation of the end and use of such actions , which did shew they had communion in the body of christ. which is clearly proved from v. . where the apostle allegeth the israelites partaking of their altar to the same purpose to which he had used the former , v. , . now the christians neither did nor were to partake then of the jewish altar , and it is not a reason from their fact or duty ▪ but onely from that wherein christians breaking bread , jews and gentiles eating of their sacrifices did agree , that these actions testified their fellowship with that lord for whom these services were performed . and therefore by piscator , dicson , and others , the argument is thus framed , israelites by eating of the sacrifices testified they were professors and partakers of the jewish religion , therefore they that eat of idol sacrifices , they testify that they communicate with idolaters in their idolatry : yea mr. blake himself in his answer to my letter pag. . doth plainly acknowledge the apostles argument to be from a general maxim common to all religious service , when he saith , yea he further makes it good ( that which he concluded before ) in the words following , even from the heathen , it is of the nature of religious worship , whether true or false , to make those of one body ( as i may say ) religious that partake of them . whence it is apparent that it is not an argument to prove any duty in a christian rite of the new testament from the ceremonial law , sith it is by his own confession even from the gentiles sactifices , which sure by analogy or resemblance being altogether forbidden , cannot make us a rule in christian meer positive worship , and therefore there is no such argument in the apostles speech from analogy , as i opp●gn . mr. blake yet adds . i instanced in christs defence of his disciples from the charge of the pharisees , mat. . , . by analogy and proportion of the like in david . mr. t. answers , that is only an instance to prove that sacrifice must give place to mercy , a ceremonial to a moral duty , not an argument from meer analogy or resemblance of things different . he proves that truth then by analogy , if not by meer analogy , and he tells us of no other thing that is joined to help it out , and make it an argument compleat . to these , abundance more might be added . answ. it is enough to shew this instance impertinent , in that it is not from such analogy as is used to prove infant-baptism by infant-circumcision ; thus it was in a rite in the old testament upon this ground , ergo , it must be so in a rite of the new testament , because the same pretended ground remains other than gods command or institution : which i called meer analogy in meer positives without a distinct command about each rite . as for my exposition it was right , that christ allegeth davids fact as an instance , that ceremonials give place to morals , and sacrifice to mercy , as appears by v. . and hence in giving rules about exposition of the decalogue usually from this passage a rule is drawn , that ceremonials give place to morals , sacrifice to mercy . sure i am , neither here , nor any where else in scripture is there found such an argument as this , thus it was in a ceremony of moses law , therfore thus is must be in a rite or ceremony of the new testament . mr. blake proceeds thus . vpon mr. t. his desire of rules how farre we may go in this parity of reason , and himself allowing this way of reasoning in morals , which in many cases might be singularly usefull and very helpful in this particular ; he is yet silent , we may then keep our way of reasoning without rules , as well as he his ; i yet gave in mine , which he epitomizes , and gives in to the reader by the halves . to whom in the first place i might apply that of the poet , carpere vel noli nostra , vel ede tua . answ. there was no reason i should set down rules about reasoning from analogy in morals , how usefull soever they might be . for . though i said in my examen pag. . for that which is natural or moral in worship an institution or command in the old testament is allowed as obligatory to christians , yet i did not say , that in morals a man may reason as paedobaptists reason in ceremonials , this was a duty or sin in the old testament , therefore another thing is a duty or sin in the new testament ( which was not in the old also ) by imagined parity of reason , as my words postscript sect . . import . neither is it necessary to set down any other rules than what either logicians set down in the topicks about arguments à comparatis , or divines give in the expounding the decalogue . . if any more were requisite , yet it would have been to draw me into a dispute on the by , to fall on that point in that place . . if it had been fit for me to do it , yet at that time i had no leisure , the postscript being written when my apology was almost printed , as i say in the postscript sect . . which is also a reason why i did not set down all his words about his rules in my postscript sect . . which he calls epitomizing of them , and giving in to the reader by halves , when the rules were as fully delivered by me as himself , and only the applications and amplifications omitted , nor doth he shew wherein i have omitted any thing of the strength of them . but whereas mr. blake saith , he may keep up his way of reasoning without rules , as well as i mine , he doth untruly suggest that i keep up any way of reasoning without rules ; my way of reasoning is such as the apostle used cor. . . and best divines court certain , to take that onely as of gods appointment in meer positive ceremonies of the new testament , which is gathered by christ or the apostles , precept or example , in the new testament . pareus comment ▪ in mat. . . quicquid igitur dominus jesus hic instituit atque praecepit necessariò est observandum , nec omittendum , quicquid non instituit nec praecepit non est quasi necessarium huic sacramento ob●rudendum sed rejiciendum . hinc videam illi qui fractionem panis à domino institutam omittunt vel damnans . which doubtless is as true concerning baptism , mat. . . jus divinum eccl. regiminis by london ministers , part ▪ . ch . . pag. . the power of church government is not natural but positive . therefore all such power claimed or exercised without such positive grant is meerly fine ti●ulo , & ipso facto null and void . and for his way of reasoning without rules , to wit , to argue thus , it was so in a meer positive ceremony of the old testament now abolished upon this conceived reason , ergo , it must be in like sort in another ceremony of the new testament , which is conceived to have in part the same use , if he kept it up , it will condemn the reformation of many popish and prelatical ceremonies , and justifie the retaining of them . the thing i required in my examen pag. . was this , i desire any learned man to set me down a rule from gods word , how far i may go in my conceived parity of reason , equity or analogy ( to wit , in meer positive things to frame an addition to gods worship from analogy or resemblance conceived by us between two ordinances , whereof one is taken away , without any institution gathered by precept or apostolical example ) and where i must stay ; when it will be superstition and wil-worship , when not , when my conscience may be satisfied , when not . mr. blake , vindic. foed . pag. . saies of me . take them as he layes them down apolog. pag. . . when parity of reason or analogy doth not institute any piece of worship , or the least part of the service of god , but onely help to a right understanding of the nature , use and extent of that which is instituted . . when in our reasoning from analogy for the right understanding of any institution or ordinance , we do not rest solely on the analogy with other commands , but have our further reason for confirmation . . when the analogy holds full proportion in that for which it is brought , so that nothing can fairly be brought against the one , but may be also concluded against the other . against these rules he takes three exceptions , . that never a one of these rules is brought out of gods word , for there is neither declaration of such rule , nor example to prove it . the first rule i thus illustrated , ainsw . pag. . you find nothing in scripture for excommunication of women , yet we find in the old testament miriam shut out of the camp , num. . . and in all penalties for transgression , in scriptures we find no regard had of distinction of sex , and by consequence it is not to be denied , that women offending are within this censure . mr. t. magisterially answers , the proving of excommunicating of women from miriams shutting out of the camp , num. . . is not a scripture collection , but a meer device of men . if there be no such thing as excommunication in the new testament ( as mr. t. saies pag. . and unsaies pag. . ) then i confess what he saies , but if there be such an institution ( which here is not a time to examine , as i am sure there is of baptism ) then it may be evinced from that place that it reacheth to both sexes . mr. t. would have us to proceed by alterable rules of prudence . this prudence as may be inferred , is to reach to both sexes . answ. my answer notwithstanding this reply stands good . for . he brings not any declaration or example where the holy ghost argues thus , excommunication extends to women , because miriam was shut out of the camp , num. . . it is true , the anti-erastians , as rutherfurd divine right of church-government , c. . q. . attempt to prove that separating from the congregregation for leprosie typified christian excommunication , and thence mr. blake would prove excommunication of women . but neither is any other than an humane device , it cannot be proved , that onely scandalous sin answers to leprosie ; original sin or sins of thoughts may as well be conceived to be signified by it , and separating from the congregation may as well typifie exclusion from heaven , as removal from the visible church , yea more agreeable to the end , sith putting out of the camp was not for amendment as excommunication was . that excommunication which the scripture in the new testament mentions as belonging to christians , i grant is to be of women as well as men , but we need not run to the old testament to prove it , cor. . , , , , . thess. . . . tim . . prove it . if that rev. . , belong to excommunication , a woman is in express terms made liable to it . i agree with mr. blake , in all penalties for transgression in scripture we find no regard had of distinction of sexe , and by consequence it is not to be denied , that women offending are within this censure : so that by his own grant we need not run to analogy from ejecting the l●per , to prove excommunicating of women ▪ it is not true , that 〈…〉 d unsay : my words are plain , distinguishing ju●●dical excommunication of superious from social , granting this latter , though demurring about the former . i have shewed my meaning plainly in the addition of my apology sect . . . in my letter to mr. robert baillee of scotland ; what mr. blake holds in this point i cannot well tell . some conference i had with him in london made me doubtful whether he were not somewhat of erastus his judgement in this point ; here he doth not say there is an institution of excommunication as he is sure there is of baptism . but i deny if there be an institution of excommunition that it may be evinced from num. . . that it reacheth both sexes , much less that any precept may be thence gathered as obliging christians in the use of excommunication : if there were a rule thence obliging , it would follow that excommunication is to be but seven dayes , and then the excommunicate to be received in again . what i said of ordering things by alterable rules of prudence is expressely meant of things concerning which we have not precise direction from gods word , which i suppose mr. blake will not deny to be true , though he is pleased to mention it , as if it were mine and not his tenent . he saith further . i brought an instance not for a proof of it self , but illustration of another proof from divines arguing against non-residence from ezek. . . this ( he saies ) is good after other arguments , but of it self is not convincing . such arguments then are of validity when aright placed and marshalled orderly , i hope this of mine then is of force , it is not in the van but brings up the rear . answ. what i acknowledged , that the argument was good after other arguments , i mean to illustrate , not to prove , nor would i deny an argument from circumcision of infants good to illustrate baptism of infants , if it were before proved from precept or apostolical example , manifested in express assertion , or deduced by good consequences . but the most of paedobaptists make the argument from circumcision their achilles , and by their texts , and confession of a committee of them , it was the main , if not the onely argument in the assembly . mr. bs arguments he puts in the van are no better , as is briefly shewed , postscript , sect . . &c. yet for the text ezek. . . upon better consideration it seems not fit to illustrate a proof against nonresidence , sith the sin there charged was not leaving the temple themselves , but admitting at the will of the prince other than of the tribe of levi to be in gods sanctuary , num. . . yea even the uncircumcised , and thereby gods holy things were profaned , and idolatry brought in . and therefore the observation of the new annot. of the second edition is , that unlawful ministers , false in doctrine , soul in life , are not to be admitted but ejected . but for mr. blakes rule , there is no one text brought out of gods word to prove it , that we may argue from analogy , so as to infer a duty from an use in meer positive worship of the old testament now abolished in the use of a rite of the new , without any other precept in the new testament , when we do not institute thence any piece of worship , or the least part of the service of god , but onely make it a help to a right understanding of the nature , use and extent of that which is instituted . yea this rule seems to me to speak inconsistencies , for he supposeth that analogy may not institute any piece of worship , or the least part of the service of god , yet allows direction from analogy in the nature , extent and use of that which is instituted ; whereas the nature , use and extent being the chief part , or the very service it self , and are determined in the institution mat. . . if we may take direction from our conceived analogy in them , we may not onely institute a piece of worship , or the least part of the service of god ( which mr. blake denies ) but also the main part , yea the very service itself , which hath no greater parts than the nature , use and extent . so that mr. blakes first rule , denying the use of analogy in the least part of gods service , yet allowing it in the nature , use and extent of that which is instituted , is but a rule destroying in one part , what is built up in the other . he adds further . the second and third rules he saies are not set down from any declaration or example in the scripture . i desire him at his leisure to look again , and he may see the second rule confirmed from the apostles way of thus arguing , cor. . and the lord christs mat. . the third is confirmed by that reasoning of christ with the pharisees before mentioned , compared with our reasoning with antipaedobaptists . answ. i have looked again , and i say still these are impertinently alleged by mr. b. as being not one of them from such analogy as mr. b. maintaines and i deny , as i have before shewed , and for antipaedobaptists reasonings , they are the fairest that can be , keeping close to the confessed institution of christ , and practice of the apostles , and there is this objection which is fairly brought against infant-baptism , that there is no command or example for it in scripture , which cannot be brought against infant circumcision , and for the hypotheses of paedobaptists from the covenant , seal , succession to circumcision , &c. there is not one of them true , as god willing shall be shewed in the process of this review . mr. blake goes on , his second exception is , these are very uncertain . for no reason is given , why they may not make a new worship , who may by their analogy extend it beyond the institution in the new testament . this very well answers mr. t. his ingenuity , to which i may reply by way of retortion , why may not mr. t. as well deny an institution and destroy it , as well as curtail that which is instituted ? we shall be able to make it good , that he curtails christs institution in the new testament , cuting off many churchmembers in covenant ; he shall never be able to prove that we extend it by analogy or otherwise beyond the institution . answ. that exception of mine did very well agree with ingenuity , and it might have stood better with mr. bs. ingenuity , to have taken the exception as sufficient to invalidate his rule , than to have made this taunting reply . the answer had no fault , but that it was a little more modest than might have stood with truth . for . i might have said truly , not onely that no reason is given , but also that no reason can be given , why they may not make a new worship , who may by their analogy extend it beyond the institution in the new testament . for their analogy being a meer humane invention , if they have authority to enlarge the ordinance , they have authority to make a new worship ; the papists if they have authority to appoint baptizing of bells , they have authority to appoint the sign of the cross , for the same end for which baptism was ; the same authority which serves for the one , serves for the other . yea , if the analogy direct in the nature , use and extent of an instituted worship , what doth it else but make a new worship ? and that it may be seen how dangerous it is to follow mr. blakes rule , i would have it considered how we shall avoid justifying the popish mass , if we stick to it . he allows analogy in the understanding of the nature or use of an instituted worship , the lords supper is an instituted worship , and it is conceived it succeeds the passeover , as baptism circumcision ; if then by the analogy of circumcision we may gather the use of baptism , we may in like manner from the analogy of the passeover , gather the use of the lords supper . it is certain from he apostles words , cor. . . for christ our passeover is sacrificed for us , that the passeover was a sacrifice and such a sacrifice as resembled christ , and therefore propitiatory ▪ and then by analogy the use of the lords supper is so too , which is the chief point whereby the popish mass is established . the very self same rule will prove the ministers of the gospel , who succeed the priests of the law , and by analogy from whom , according to mr. blake , the apostle reasoneth , cor. . , , will be proved sacrificing priests , if as mr. blake saith , analogy may direct us in the use of an instituted ordinance . . i say mr. blake doth by his analogy according to his first rule , allow the making a new worship ▪ for the worship is not the same , but a new worship , when though the same element be used , yet the nature , use and extent of is otherwise than the institution , as though the pharisees used water according to the tradition of the elders , mark . which is the element used in baptism , yet their washing their hands was another worship than christian baptism , because the nature , use and extent of it , was other than the institution of baptism : so likewise though water be retained in their so called infant-baptism , yet it being neither used in the manner appointed by christ , to wit , by dipping , but by sprinkling or powring , nor on the subject appointed by christ to be baptized , to wit , disciples or believers in him , but on infants , who are not such , nor to the end christ appointed , that is , to testifie by that act their owning christ for their lord , their dying to sin , and rising to newness of life , but onely to seal the covenant of grace , i say a new worship is made in their infant-watering , as there was of old a new worship made in infant-communion , and is at this day in the popish mass , and baptizing of bells . as for mr. blaks retortion , i do grant mr. t. may as well deny an institution , and destroy as well as curtail that which is instituted . but that by denying infants visible churchmembership in the christian church of the new testament , and their being in covenant , and right thereby to baptism , i curtail christs institution , i do then expect he will be able to make good , when he proves the snow black and the crow white . and whether i prove ▪ that by analogy or some other way baptism is extended beyond the institution in infant-baptism , i leave it to the reader to judge . mr. blake goes on thus . the second rule ( he saies ) overthrows all , for if we may not rest solely on the analogy , why at all ? how then is that collection from ezek. . . good , after other arguments against non-residence ? neither do i say , that it may not go alone , but it will hardly go alone , but other arguments will be found to second it , in which i also gave instances . answ. . the collection from ezek. . . is good to illustrate , not to rest on as a proof , yet with the correction of my speech as above . . i did not charge him that he said it may not go alone , nor is it to the purpose which he tells us that he said analogy will hardly go alone . but this i say , his second rule is that reasoning from analogy holds when we do not rest solely on the analogy with other commands , but have our further reason for confirmation , which doth plainly intimate that we may not rest solely on it . now i argue , if it be a good proof , we may rest solely on it ; for one good proof is enough for a man to rest upon , though more arguments make it clearer . if then we may not rest solely on analogy with other commands ( as mr. blakes words intimate ) then it is not a sufficient proof . to which in mr. blakes words there is no reply , nor hath he avoided my objection that his second rule overthrows what he contends for , the validity of his analogical arguments impugned by me . mr. blake of me . he adds , this is enough to shew that analogy hath no strength , that indeed it doth not onely illustrate , connot prove ▪ what is an argument by analogy , but an argument à simili ? i had thought there had been much difference between these two kinds of arguments à pari & à simili ; pari à similibus omninò differunt , saith scheibler in his topicks . i may send him to his dictionary to see whether one be not englished equal or even , and the other like or semblable . i may send him to the predicaments whether one be not in quantity , the other in quality , and demand of him whether there be magis & minus par & aequale , as there is magis & minus simile ? and to con ult with the topicks whether that be not one head from which they draw arguments which in their judgement are valid : hath mr. t. never read de paribus idem est judicium ? quod valet in re pari valet etiam in compari . i think he never read de similibus idem est judicium : quod valet in simili valet etiam in re assimilata . if mr. t. be agreed we will referre it to the common law , whether this way of reasoning will hold or no ; if it fail , we shall need no other levellers to take down that art , it will fall of it self , they have scarce any other way of arguing . but if these onely illustrate ( which i think no logician will say ) yet it is here sufficient , there was an institution of circumcision and there is of baptism ; neither of these needs proof being not in controversie between us and our adversaries . the right subject of baptism onely is enquired after ; the institution hath infants we say within the verge , and are not excluded from it ; for this we have our arguments which from the initiating sacrament of the iews we onely illustrate . answ. it seems mr. blake thought he had me here at a lift , and therefore after a message from him by words of mouth some years since , intimating he took my speech to be absurd , that an argument from analogy is but an argument à simili , he bestirs himself in this manner in this his book . but to stop him in his carreer . he tells me he had thought there had been much difference between these two kinds of arguments à pari & simili : which may be true , and yet my speech true also , what is an argument by analogy ( i did not say à pari ) but an argument à simili ? he tells me , paria à similibus omninò differunt ▪ saith scheibler in his topicks . answ. it is true , scheibler top. c. . q. . saith so , but withal he tells us , that titelman comprehends paria sub similibus , & hunuaeus , similium & parium aut nullum aut pertenue discrimen esse ait , idque proptereà , quia eadem exempla referantur ad similia & paria . yea even scheibler himself c. . saith , ad similia etiam pertinent parabolae & analogia ; analogia est similitudo composita trium vel quatuor terminorum . keckerm . syst . log . lib. . c. . sequitur locus qui est à similitudine composita , quae dicitur analogia seu proportio . burgersdicius instit. log . l. . c. . intelligitur hoc loco non simplex sed composita similitudo sive analogia . and in the same place hath this passage even of analogy . argumenta ex locis similium p●tita magis illustrant quàm probant , & ut ait molinaeus afferunt magis dissentiendi pudorem quàm assentiendi necessitatem . georg. dounam . comment . in rami dialecti . lib. . c. . comparatio similium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dicitur , id est similitudo , dicitur etiam proportio graecè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut similia proportio nalia graecè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & à mathemacis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , inquit fabius lib. . c. . quidam à simili separaverunt , nos eam subjectam huic generi putamus . nam ut unum ad decem , sic decem ad centum , simile certe est , & ut hostis sic malis civis . ac certe proportio nihil aliud est , quam duarum rationum similit udo . sic enim euclides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ratio autem seu 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est duorum inter se terminorum collatio . exempli gratia , ut . ad . . sic . ad . . proportio sive similitudo est , quia eadem est ratio seu qualitas . ad . . quae . ad . . scilicet dupla . solent quidem hae voces à quibusdam ad quantitatum collectiones adstringi , verùm generalis sunt significationis . nam & similitudo omnis proportio est , & qualitas omnis ratio est . and for the dictionary . pares ▪ cum paribus facillime congregantur in cicero , is rendred by cooper , like most readily gather in company with like . par est , plaut . it is like or equal . par co●at jungatque pari . horat. jam sumus ergo pares , martial . these and innumerable instances besides shew that however in the predicaments par is applied to discrete quantity , and simile to quality , yet they are taken without such exactness in other authors , and that frequently parity is as much as likeness in quality and other conditions . and it is known that it is a rule in logick , that qualities are sometimes expressed by words of quantity , as when we say a great philosopher . and for the topicks locus à pari is not à pari numero , or simili qualitate onely properly so called , but also from any such argument which makes it probable that the like may be said of the one as of the other : locus à majori & minori is all one with locus à magis & minus probabili . i find in keckerm . syst . log . l. . c. . this canon . de paribus & similibus idem est judicium . i grant good use of arguments à paribus & à similibus in the common law , which they call from the same case : nor do i except against it as insufficient for judges and lawyers to determine by . yet as in the law when there is a statute law which determines any case , judges and lawyers use not then such arguments : so christ having made an express statute concerning baptizing , and who are to be baptized , it is against the law of god for mr. blake to run to his analogy , and to impose on mens consciences such uncertain conjectures as his analogy from circumcision , which are no better than his own and other paedobaptists figments . and me thinks his words she● there is no strength in it , when he saith . the institution of baptism hath infants within the verge , and are not excluded from it ; for this we have our arguments , which from the initiating sacrament of the jews we onely illustrate . if other paedobaptists would stand to this , we should be less cumbred with the argument from the covenant and seal , which was mr. marshals and the assemblies main if not onely argument . however the reader may here take notice that mr. blake confesses that he with others do onely illustrate their arguments for paedobaptism by the argument from the initiating sacrament of the jews : which may move the considerate reader to regard little that argument , and to look for other arguments from the institution comprehending infants , which have and will appear frivolous , as his exception here against me hath been . mr. blake yet adds . the third likewise saith he , is uncertain and vain ; for how shall we know when the analogy holds full proportion ? when nothing can be fairly brought against the one , but may be also concluded on the other ? when is the proportion full ? if onely when omnia sunt paria . when mr. t. will destroy our old logick to set up his own divinity , it were to be wisht that he would furnish us with a new piece of logick as he hath done of divinity , that all learning humane and divine may stoop to his reformation . i have learnt these for maximes . parium exacta est convenientia . quod de uno parium affirmatur id affirmatur etiam de altero & e contra . but these with mr. t. are vain and uncertain , and all arguments that dance not after his pipe , though our saviors , st. pauls , or any others . answ. there is nothing here but flirts and flams . neither do i destroy old logick , nor set up any other than what i have from the scripture , yea and the best approved writers : nor need i any new logick to help me in the reformation of infant baptism , but such as protestant divines have used in reformation of popish and prelatical ceremonies . i do not say the maximes of logick mr. blake here sets down are vain and uncertain , and all arguments that dance not after my pipe . but this i say , mr. blakes rule about arguing from analogy conceived between circumcision and baptism , or any other old and new testament rites , so as without precept or apostolical example in the new testament to frame an obligation on our consciences is vain , and uncertain , nor doth our savior , or st. paul , or any other sacred writer argue so , as in my answer above may be seen . mr. blake , this can never happen ( saith mr. t. ) in analogies between the rites of moses and the rites of christ. how did paul then reason from a parity in the jewish altar and the lords table , cor. . , . yea from manna and the rock to the lords table ? as pareus and other interpreters observe , that spiritual meat was eaten in the one and in the other , and a like danger of prophaning the one and the other . answ. i said true , it can never happen in analogies between the rites of moses and the rites of christ that all things should be even , or that there should be an exact agreement between them , so , as that which is affirmed of the one should be affirmed of the other , or that there should be the same reason in the use of the one as in the other , and thence inferred , what ought to be done in the one ought to be done in the other , they who are to partake of the one are to partake of the other . this is enough to overthrow the supposed parity between circumcision and baptism as inferring infant baptism , that they agree not in this , that the institution of baptism extendeth it to all those to whom the institution of circumcision extends it . it is not true that paul did reason cor. , , . from such a parity in the jewish altar and the lords table , as if what was done at the one , must be done at the other by reason of an answerableness in the one rite to the other . but he argues from that which is common to both , and to all other religions whether true or false , that they which did partake either of them did thereby profess the same religion , to prove that they which should eat of the idol meats had communion with the idol , and so with the devil . it is not true that the apostle cor. . , , , . argues from manna and the rock to the lords table , as if he would prove that spiritual meat was eaten in the one , therefore in the other , or that it was dangerous to profane the one ( for what danger was there in profaning the cloud , sea , manna , or water out of the rock ? ) therefore there is the like danger of profaning the other , much less what was done in the one was to be done in the other by reason of analogy between them : but the apostles argument is manifestly this , the israelites being under the cloud , and passing through the sea , was to them as baptism to us , their eating manna and drinking water from the rock noted christ as well as the lords supper to us , and yet this could not save them from gods displeasure when they sinned , therefore our sacraments will not shelter us from gods wrath if we sin , which v. . . . of cor. . manifestly shew to be the force of the apostles reasoning . mr. blake adds . if when there is a parity in many things , it will be ( saith he ) uncertain how many parities will serve turn to make the proportion full . here is an excellent dexterity to enervate so many scripture arguments , that the weakness of this argument ( in spight of all logick ) might appear ; i have told him , and may tell him still , the corinthians and the pharisees wanted his head-piece , otherwise christ and paul had not gone so away with arguments of this nature . to satisfie him therefore fully , one parity will serve the turn . the exact proportion , say logicians , is in quantum paria respectu tertii in quo paria comparantur . there are many imparities between the lords supper and manna , yet they agree in this that both were spiritual meat ; so between the jewish altar and the lords table , but they agree , in this , that there is ecclesiastical communion in both of them , to make the partakers of one body ecclesiastical : many differences between circumcision and baptism , but so farre they agree ( by mr. t. his confession ) that both are initiating sacraments ; he hath multiplied many differences , but stands not to any as in application to this particular in difference . answ. there is in my answer nothing tending to enervate any scripture argument , though what i say is enough to shew the vanity of mr. blakes arguments ▪ there being no certain rule to shew how many or what sort of parities , general or special , essential or accidental will serve turn . neither paul nor christ did argue thus , this was appointed in a rite of the old testament , therefore thus it is to be observed in a rite of the new. in logick it is usuall to deny an argument valid à comparatis , though there be some parities , caeteris non paribus . it is true one parity will serve turn to make things compared even in the thing in which they agree . but there must be so many parities , or such a parity in things compared as make them equall in the reason of the thing inferred , otherwise one disparity proper to the matter is enough to enervate the argument . which is very manifest in the argument about infant baptism . for the formal reason of circumcising infants being the command , there is no parity to infer thence baptizing of infants without the parity of command . which is the difference i have often stood to in application to this particular in difference ; which is not whether baptism and circumcision be initiating sacraments , but whether an argument can be drawn to bind conscience in the use of the one from a command , in the use of the other without a precept in the new testament . mr. blake concludes this section thus : the third exception is , it is uncertain whether these rules be sufficient , whether there be no need of any more . it is certain then that mr. t. cannot make it appear that they are insufficient , in case he could he would not have left them at any uncertainty : i shall judge them sufficient till i hear from mr. t. the contrary . answ. i have made it appear that these rules are not sufficient to make good the proof from analogy disproved by me : nor was it formerly uncertain to me they are not sufficient ; yet i might say truly , it is uncertain , whether these rules be sufficient , whether there be no need of any more to satisfie others , who may think them too few as well as otherwise imperfect . i for my part do judge them notwithstanding mr. blakes plea to be insufficient , and all arguments inferring duty as of gods appointment in the use of a rite of the new testament from some likeness or agreement with a rite of the old testament now abolished , without direction in the new , as frivolous and serving onely to make wrangling , fill people with superstitions , and to weary scholars , as i say in the addition to my apology in answer to mr. baillee sect . . mr. cawdrey sabb. rediv. part . . ch . . against dr. sanderson , saying divine right or institution is that first which is properly and primarily such ; as what is ( first ) enjoined by express ordinance of god , or ( secondly ) what may be deduced therefrom by evident illation . secondly that which is secondarily and consequently such . to which four things ( say they ) are required , . equity , . analogy , . insinuations in the new testament , . continued practice of the church , speaks thus . but this proceeding seems not sufficient . . there are things now in common use which have all the four conditions , and yet he will not say they are divine institutions ; as the observation of easter &c : which yet are confessedly but ecclesiasticall . and will mr. cawdrey make a divine institution of infant baprism which in the next page he saith we have no express command ( nor express example of it ) in scripture , from grounds which at most can make but analogy without equity ( for in meer positive rites there is no equity but the appointers will ) insinuations in the new testament or any truly wel proved continued practice of the church ? however mr. cawdreys words are sufficient to shew ( though they oppose himself ) that he counted analogy not sufficient , no not though accompanied with equity , insinuations in the new testament and continued practice of the church to make a thing of divine institutution , but only ecclesiastical . which being granted , mr. marshals analogical argument ( as he calls it ) which with him the words of the assembly intimate to be the chief prop of the divine institution of infant baptism , falls to the ground . but le ts hear what mr. b. saith also . what need ( saith mr b. ) the same thing to be done twice , except men had questioned the authority of the old ? answ. the holy ghost hath delivered many things twice in the old and new testament , yet sure it was needful , else it is not likely it would have been done . will mr. b. charge the spirit of god with needless committing so many histories , sayings of christ &c. to writing , because they were written before ? and to his question i say , if there were no other need , yet there was this , that the agreement of the old and new testament might appear , whereby the authority of both is greatly confirmed . the whole scripture saith he , is the perfect word and law of god : and if he should reveal all his mind in one part , what use should we make of the other . answ. the gospels of the four evangelists are the perfect word and law of god , they need no unwritten tradition for a supplement , in them those things are written by which we may have life , john . . yet there is use of pauls epistles . suppose all gods mind revealed in one part , so as no more doctrine or truth were in the rest than in one , yet there is use to confirm , explain , inforce that which is elsewhere written in that one part . and indeed this reasoning of his would prove that book or part of scripture to be of no use , as suppose marks gospel , which is counted an a bridgement of another , or so much of that gospel as reveals no more of gods mind than another doth : which me thinks mr. b. on better consideration should disclaim . he goes on . how silent is the new testament concerning a christian magistracy ? which made the anabaptists of old deny it . where find you a christian in the new testament that exercised the place of a king , a parliament man , or justice of peace , or the like ? so of an oath before a magistrate , of war , of the sabbath , &c. how sparing is the new testament ? and why ? but because there was enough said of them in the old ? this also is the very case in the question in hand . answ. the anabaptists ( as they are called ) of former times , or some of them , as it is reported ( for their own books i never saw ) of them , denied it lawful for christians to be magistrates , to war , to swear , not onely because of the silence thereof in the new testament , but also because they mistook the meaning of the texts , as forbidding them is. . . micah . . zach. . . iohn . . mat. . . mat. . , . luke . , . &c. and so either did or seemed to do some of the antient christians , even those who are called the fathers , of which may be seen sixtus senensis biblioth . sanct . lib. . annot . , . and yet learned men do not think the new testament silent of a christian magistrate , of an oath , or war , but that there are texts for them in the new testament , of which some are brought by grot. l. . de iure belli . ac pacis c. . tim. . , , . rom. . . &c. and though there be no example of a christian king , parliament man , or justice of peace , yet we find a christian centurion act. . a christian deputy act. . . christian parents , husbands , masters , whose government is allowed , and rules given about the managing of it . wherefore i conceive mr. b. doth too much betray christian magistracy , souldiery , civil judicature , &c. who suggests to his reader , as if the new testament were silent of christian magistracy , and sparing about war , or oaths before a magistrate . i confess the determination of the old testament is obligatory , because these things are moral , not peculiar to the jews : but it doth not follow therefore that an argument is valid from analogy conceived between rites of the old testament and the new , or the jewish policy and the christian to conclude an obligation to us in a rite of the new testament , the rites of the old testament being meerly positive , not from the beginning proper to the jews , and together with the policy of the jewish church now abrogated . but there seems to be more difficulty about the sabbath . mr. marshall had said in his sermon , that all that reject the baptizing of infants do and must upon the same grounds reject the religious observation of the lords day . in my examen part . . sect . . i denied it , there being something moral from the beginning in the sabbath , not so in circumcision , and there being something in the new testament to prove an institution of the lords day , nothing about infant baptism , to this mr. m. replies , however the determinate day doth depend wholly upon institution , therefore they who reject that which depends upon positive institution , unless its institution can be expresly found in the new testament , are as much at a loss for the lords day as for baptizing of infants . . and the advantage is here for infant baptism above the lords day , because in the proof of infant baptism there is only need to shew the subject to whom baptism is to be applyed , in the lords day the institution of the day it self . answ. . that which he saies first confirms my exception ; for therein he acknowledgeth there is something natural or moral by institution about a sabbath , but shews nothing natural or moral in circumcision . . i never rejected infant baptism because its institution cannot be expresly in so many words or syllables without consequence found in the new testament , but because it is not there either in express words , or by good consequence . . if the determinate day require positive institution , there is institution brought out of the new testament , if not express , yet by good consequence , which i count sufficient . . yet i do not count mr. ms. consequence good by analogy in his defence pag. . the jews keep the sabbath on the seventh or last day of the week , ergo the christians keep the sabbath on the first day of the week . of my judgement herein with other antipaedo baptists more may be seen in my praecursor , s. . and for the other thing mr. m. adds , it is nothing to the business in hand , which is not about the greater or lesser necessity of clearing the institution of the lords day or infant baptism , but about the principle by which infant baptism is rejected , whether it necessitate us to reject the lords day : which i denyed , because this principle , that use of a meer ceremony or positive rite which hath neither precept nor example in the new testament is to be rejected , will not reach the lords day , which is not meerly positive , but in part moral , and hath precept and example for it in the new testament , neither of which can be said of infant baptism . that which mr. b. adds next about the desperate highest sort of antinomians , who wipe out all the old testament with a stroke , and that they may as well do so by the new testament too if they please , and telling us the question whether infants should be baptized is turned into a higher , whether the scriptures be the word of god or not ? i might well let pass as being nothing to the point in hand , the denying of infant baptism to be in the old or new testament , neither being upon the higher or lower sort of antinomians ( if there be such difference of them ) principle , they that deny infant baptism , being not necessitated to it , nor so far as i find in their writings ( except what i have met with in mr. dens books ) denying the obligation of moral precepts of the old testament . all that they are necessitated to maintain is , that ceremonial precepts of the old testament and imagined analogie between baptism and circumcision , the jewish church state and the christian , are of no force to conclude a divine appointment concerning any sacrament or meerly positive worship of the new testament . and therefore his pathetick rhetorick , though elsewhere of use , yet in a dispute as this his writing should have been , hath the face either of malignancy towards his antagonists , or of an indirect trick to prepossess people with horrour of that opinion , which he would refuse afore he comes to his arguments , which is the chief part of his skill . and for what he saith further that incestuous marriages are not forbidden in the new testament , and tells the men of bewdley , that some of eminency that deny infant baptism deny either incestuous marriages , or any thing else not forbidden in the new testament to be sin , it is like the former , sith he might know that antipaedo baptists are not necessitated to deny the obligation of the moral law , in which the laws about incestuous marriages appear to be in that the canaanites were punished for their incests levit. . . and mr. b. if he had any mind to deal candidly with me , might have told them , that i was none of those men , sith he might ( if he did read my books with any heed , of which i much doubt ) have told them , that to this objection i answered in my examen pag . . that the instance of the lawes about forbidden marriages brought by mr. m. is not to the point of the obligation of meer positive ceremonial worship , sith the command about prohibited degrees in marriage is moral . that yet there is for one branch of incest an express censure in the new testament , proving the unlawfulness of it . to which mr. m. page . of his defence saith , but how would you laugh at such a consequence in another , a man may not marry his fathers wife , a thing which by the light of nature was abhorred among the heathens , ergo all the degrees of forbidden marriages in moses laws stand firm ? whereto i reply , i made no consequence but this , one branch of incest is expresly censured in the new testament , therefore it is unlawful . and this i only brought to shew the impertinency of mr. m. allegation to prove the matter in question , it being granted by me that a morall precept of moses is in force , thought not a ceremonial , and yet mr. m. brings instances only of morals standing in force , none of ceremonials , and instead of cleering the pertinency of his own instances , makes a consequence as mine , which , saith he , i would laugh at in another , which dealing is cavilling not answering . the like to which is that which follows in him . the like say you against polygamy , there is proof against it , mat. . . . but is this an express prohibition of it ? must you not be compelled to go by a consequence to bring it in , which is ab i contend for ? whereto i reply . though mr. m. page . of his defence charged me unjustly with a socinian plot in my writings to question all conclusions deduced by consequence from scripture , yet page . he saith of me , that i neither there nor here deny this argument from a consequence to be sufficient for practice of some things in the worship of god , which are not expresly laid down in the new testament , and therefore he might easily have seen , if he would ▪ that to prove we may go by a consequence is not all he contends for , it being known to him that i grant it . but this he is to prove , or else he still is besides the business , that a consequence is good from analogy of an abrogated rite of the old testament to prove a divine appointment concerning a meer positive rite of the new testament , till this be done , his , and mr. bs. and mr. bls. arguings are quite besides the business in hand and carry an apparent shew of sophistry , not of just disputing . sect . iv. mr. bs. speeches about the little said for antipaedobaptism is vain , and his speech about the antiquity of infant baptism is very inconsiderate , and his speech about the difficulty and importance of the point in question is examined . the rest of mr. bs. ten positions are granted by me , but what he saith of me , pag. . that he never to his remembrance did plead with an able papist , but he could say for more for his religion then mr. t. said for his opinion on james . or his sermon since , that he might insinuate that he and others had reason to be settled in the practice of infant baptism , because i said so little then , and my sermon presently after , is like ▪ king iames his resolution , to be more for the bishops and ceremonies , because doctor reynolds and his collegues sayd so little against them in the conference at hampton court , from whence m : b. might gather ▪ that if such men as dr : reynolds ( whose equal every way the world did then or since scarce yield ) d : spark , m : chaderton , m : knewstubs , did fail to speak what had been requisite , when it was expected , though they were four , which were to object , and that upon a sufficient time of premeditation , and yet this no good evidence for bishops and ceremonies , it is no good evidence for infant baptism , that i being single , being to answer ex tempore , hardly allowed by m : b. to repeat his arguments , whereof some were hypothetical syllogisms , brought to prove an hypothetical proposition , and therefore such as could not be well repeated , and his arguments containing such terms , as it appears now by his book , he used in senses different from what other authors use them , and yet would not explain them , with sundry other captious devices , and provoking speeches , as i have in part made manifest in my writings , and through gods assistance shall do more , sayd so little at the dispute . who is there that hath experience of humane infirmity , who knows not that distractions , forgetfulness , in advertency , sudden weakness of body , extemporality necessitated , slowness of speech , care to restrain passion , do hinder a man from speaking that in a great meeting , which he could in his study by writing easily express ? what i sayd jan. . . was almost wholly as a respondent , as the argument required . now they that know the rule of schools understand the respondents business is but to repeat , deny , distinguish , apply to the arguments of the opponent , and this was done by me then , why it was done no more fully my antidote , praecursor , and the review shew . m : b. had in his epistle dedicatory to his saints everlasting rest , published to the world , that i was driven to gross absurdities , being moved to name those absurdities in his answer to my valedictory or ation , he names . p. . to all which i answer in my praecursor sect : . and clear my self from the absurdities he imagined . in his praefestinantis morator , when he comes to answer that section , he onely replies thus , sect : . i know not one word of answer that this section needs for him that will peruse my words . to which i conceive i may without any heat reply , that he either wrongs his readers by not making good that i was driven to gross absurdities , after my clearing of my self from them , or me , in not acquitting me from his charge . but i must needs speak it , though with grief , that i have scarce met with less justice , or fair dealing from any man than from m : b. and both his and other antagonists courses tend not to an impartial and equal way of examining the point in controversie , but they use artifices to prepossess men against me and my writings and speeches , and to deter them from considering them . in my january● ● . . was given an answer to m : bs. arguments so far as i could retain them in memory , or finde them in some imperfect notes , when i had sought in vain to have them from m : b. himself in writing . now they are in print , they have or shall have a large answer , if the lord will. papists may say much more than i sayd , yet that either for their religion orree will so much of moment can be sayd as against infant-baptism is vainly surmised . it is well m : b. in his . position confesseth some divines have argued weakly for infant-baptism , and brought some misapplied scriptures . if ye mean my books by the third or fourth written against them ▪ ( as it is most likely ) he might know my writings were in answer to m : marshall , whose writing is conceived to contain the assemblies grounds , he is stiled by m : stalham the antesignanus , and perhaps it may be judged arrogance in m : b. to imagine his own arguments better than his . for my part i think them weaker . however he had sh●wd some care of truth and love to me , if he had by communicating them to me endeavoured to stop me in my supposed error . but this i count my trouble , though i hope it will advantage the truth , that first mr : ms. sermon hath been magnified , & that by examining it i hoped i had done my work , and yet after m : blakes writing being magnified , i was put to answer that , and then mr : bs. preferred before them all , and yet i am referred by him to answer m : cobbet , m : drew , m : church , and after all doctor hammonds is preferred , so that i must answer that , or else the truth be betrayed . it seems paedobaptists know not well what to re● on , when they do shift so much from one to another . but i go on ▪ m : bs. eighth position is , that one sound argument is enough to prove any thing true : yet more may be brought against infant-baptism . almost all that protestants dispute against popish rites , non-conformists against prelatical ceremonies , may be said against paedobaptism , m : bs. words in answer to mr. bedford , plain scripture proof &c. pag. , . are appliable against infant-baptism . in my praecursor i had set down m. b. words in the second edition of the saints everlasting rest , part . . chap. . sect. . pag. . in the margin ; in his praefestinantis morator he sayth , to what end you recite my allegation of justin martyr is past my reach to imagine ; unless you would insinuate that i confess this to be the course with all the baptized , which i expresly say was the way of baptizing the aged . answ it had been easie for m. b. to conceive why i set down those words , to wit , to prove from his own confession , that to baptize upon profession of faith , and to admit none to the lords supper but those who are thus baptized , is no new over-strict way . and however he now endeavours to mince the matter , these words of his , [ and in the primitive times none were baptized without an express covenanting , wherein they renounced the world , flesh , and devil , and engaged themselves to christ , and promised to obey him , as you may see in tertul : origen , cyprian , and others at large . ] being printed with a ful point at the end , are as plain a denial that infants were baptized in the primitive times , as words usually express . as for the words following ; i will cite but one for all , who was before the rest , and that is justin martyr ; speaking of the way of baptizing the aged sayth , they are not words , if they be restrictive , that limit any one 's ▪ speech but justin martyrs , and if by them m : b. would intimate that justin martyr did not in that speech set down the way of baptizing all that were then baptized , the words following saying thus , how we are dedicated to god we will now open unto you , and then setting down the constant way of baptizing without any exception , m. bs. addition will easily be perceived to be but a shift to avoid the evidence of this relation of justin martyr , apol. . ad antoninum , being so plain to prove infant-baptism not to have been then in use among christians . likewise in my praecursor , sect. . pag. . i bring an argument against infant-baptism from m : bs. own words mutatis mutandis . his answer in his praefestinantis morator is in these words . his confidence , pag. . is marvellous . i doubt not but that he knows that i take the words [ since the solemn institution of baptism matth ▪ . ] inclusively ; and so i answer , that this solemn instition is our warrant , requiring us both to disciple nations , and baptize disciples ; and we have other scriptures which plainly prove infants to be disciples . answ : my confidence is upon good reason , m : bs. marvelling is from ignorance ; what he means by taking the words [ since the solemn institution of baptism , matth. . ] inclusively i know not ▪ except he mean that time when that institution was given , as well as the time after , or that institution to be a warrant as well as after precepts or examples . either way the medium of m. b. serves my purpose . for it plainly asserts , that what we have no warrant , in all the new testament , for , we are not to do ordinarily ▪ what we have precept and example for , we are to do . which if he will stand to , then his warrant out of the old testament is not sufficient for infant-baptism , and so it is not fully determined in the old testament , at what age persons are to be admitted into the church , as he sayd before , and what we do we have warrant for by his own grant , sith he cannot deny we have precept and example for baptizing professors of faith . and then his including here matth. . . in his texts ( though not brought plain scripture proof , &c. pag. . to prove his antecedent ) is an intimation that in all the rest of the texts , john . . acts . , . & . , , , , . & . . & . ▪ . & . , . & . . & . ▪ , . rom. . , &c. he findes not precept or example for baptizing of infants , and so if he finde not warrant matth. . . for baptizing infants , all his other proofs are by his own reasoning made invalid . for sure the texts alleged do as evidently prove this antecedent [ we have no warrant by word or example in all the new testament ( since the solemn institution of baptism , matth. . ) to admit any member into the church by baptism , but believers by profession , but both precept and constant example of admitting them by it ] as mr : bs. [ we have no warrant by word or example in all the new testament ( since the solemn institution of baptism , matth. ) to admit any member into the church without baptism , but both precept and constant example of admitting them by it ] the consequent then [ we must not admit ordinarily any by baptism without profession of faith ] must by the force of his own illation be undoubted to those that take the word for their rule . as for his evasion , that he hath other scriptures which plainly prove infants to be disciples , how miserably he fails therein will appear by that which follows in this review . the reader may perceive that whatsoever his talk be about a gift and ordinance of visible church-membership unrepealed , and of christs laying of hands on little ones , and such like arguments and texts he brings , yet if he will stand to his own reasoning in arg. . against deniers of baptism by water , pag. . of his plain scripture proof , &c. we have no warrant to admit ordinarily by baptism , but according to the precept and example in the new testament in the text , matth. . . and the other texts before recited . concerning which i have reason to be as confident as of common notions , that they include not infants , and to marvel that mr. bs. prejudice should so blinde him , as not to see the futility of his arguings to prove infants to be disciples included in the institution matth. . . but i proceed . because , as he sayth , pag. . an answer cannot be always presently given , which may make the case plain to some men , therefore mr. b. should have given his arguments in writing to those that came to him , which had been an easier and fairer way than to tell them as he doth , pag. . if any of you have taken up the opinion of antepaedobaptism , and have not read and studied mr. cobbet , m. church , and other the chief books , and been able ( at least to himself ) to confute them , you have but discovered a feared conscience ( a most heavy , though vain censure , shewing what rashness and distemper was in mr. b. in this writing ) which either taketh error for no sin , or else dare venture on sin without fear , and have betrayed your own souls by your laziness , as if a man might not be satisfied by reading of the scripture , and conference with the able of the opposite party , without reading so many books . sure mr. b. who had read those books shewed little charity to those of bewdley that came to him for arguments for infant-baptism , when he would neither set down his own arguments in writing , nor direct them in what part of those books they might have satisfaction ; but fly upon them with so deep a charge , without any moderation of spirit . and when he saith , pag. . he dare say by my books , that it is my case not to have received the doctrine of infant-baptism on the best grounds and arguments . i reply , . that there are many passages which make me think he never read my books with exact diligence and heed , but ( if i may use his own words ) he betrays his own soul by his laziness or prejudice . . it shews a fond conceit in him of his own arguments , which another perhaps will think weaker than those of calvin , ursin , piscator , the assembly , mr. m. &c. which he might perceive by my exercit. and otherwise , that i had considered . i said in my apology , pag. . that i rested wholly on cor. . . for many years , and that text mr. b. cals a full plain text , and dr. hammond in effect builds all his proof for infant-baptism upon it , and therefore mr. b. might have perceived his mistake concerning me , if he had heeded my books . if some divines have argued weakly for infant-baptism , used some unfit phrases , and brought some misapplied scriptures , as he saith , i am sure mr. b. had reason to number himself among them , if he be not the man who hath in all these outstripped them . i wish he had held his resolution of not heaping up many arguments , it would have saved me much labor . to his words , whatsoever mr. t. may pretend among the simple , i shall easily prove , that infant-baptism was used in the church as high to the apostles days as there is any sufficient history extant to inform us : and that the deferring of baptism came in with the rest of popery , upon popish or heretical grounds . i answer , . that my pretences about the innovation of infant-baptism are not among the simple , as he would insinuate , but among the most learned , for whose examination my allegations are obvious in print . . that his assertion concerning the antiquity of infant-baptism is most inconsiderate , there being nothing in ignatius , clemens alexandrinus , eusebius , epiphanius , and other the most approved histories and authors , for his assertion . and for those be brings , the highest is pope hyginus , whose words he alleged out of his decree , which i conceived had been in his epistle decretal , judged to be counterfeit , but mr. b. in his praefestinant is morator lets fly at me sect. . for my mistake . i confess i have not blondellus , surius , nicolinus , crab , binius , gratian ; but osiander epit. hist. eccl. cent. . l. . c. . saith , reliqua decreta , quae huic episcopo tribuuntur , ex gratiano ad verbum ( quia prolixa non sunt ) referemus . and then sets down five decrees , on the second of which he notes thus , ex hoc decreto el●●et vanit as harum constitutionum ; & quod falsò prioribus episcopis romanis tribuantur . quis enim credat ? &c. quare manifestum est haec decreta longo tempore post hyginum facta , & in ecclesiam dei , jam superstitionibus pontificiis contaminatam , introducta esse . hujus farinae sunt & proximè sequentia decreta , de rebus frivolis edita , of which the last is , in catechismo , & in baptismo , & in confirmatione unus p●trinus fieri potest , si necessit as cogat , non est tamen consuetudo romana : sed per singulos ( astus ) singula suscipiunt . whereby the reader may perceive the decree to be but a forgery , and that if it were true , yet it doth not mention the baptizing of infants , sith gossips were at the baptism of elder persons , ( though dr. hammond say in his letter , pag. . godfathers have place onely in baptizing of children ) as may be made appear by instances at the baptizing of some s●xon kings , and otherwise , and the decree it self , putting a gossip in catechism before a gossip in baptism , makes it probable not to be meant of a gossip to an infant baptized . and lest it be thought osiander is alone , i will adjoyn the words of mr. fox , acts and monuments first book at the year . the like ( that telesphorus made them not ) is to be thought also of the rest , not onely his constitutions ; but also of the other ancient biships and martyrs , which followed after him , as of hyginus anno . who succeeding him , and dying also a martyr , as volateranus lib. . declareth , is said or rather feigned to bring in the cream , one godfather and godmother in baptism , to ordain the dedication of churches : when as in his time so far it was off , that any solemn churches were standing in rome , that unneth the christians could safely convent in their own houses . likewise the distincting the orders of metropolitans , bishops , and other degrees , savour nothing less than of that time . doctor prideaux , one of mr. bs. own authors for this decree of pope hyginus about gossips , though he make mention of it where he speaks of that pope , compend . of history , cap. . sect. . interr . . yet after , among many of his inquiries , this is the third , whether it be likely that these religious popes in such extreme persecutions had liberty or list to think on making cardinals or gossips , and introduce a rabble of beggarly ceremonies . and though i were mistaken in calling that decree of hyginus the decree in the epistle , yet i think the authors which censured the decretal epistles did comprehend the decrees ascribed to those first popes among those forged writings under that name . however , what i have produced is enough to justifie my speeches in my praecursor , that the decree ascribed to pope hyginus about gossips , is so manifest a forgery , that i could hardly have imagined any learned protestant would ever have alleged so notoriously forged a writing : so that i need not answer mr. bs. allegation of this testimony , as by currant consent of historians assuring us that hyginus bishop of rome did first ordain godfathers and godmothers at the baptizing of infants , and his questions thereon , but by telling him he hath reason to be ashamed of abusing men with this forgery after so much eviction of it by learned men , being more like a brazen faced allegation , than that he so censures me for without cause . the next of his allegations is justin martyr , from whom besides the bastard writing of questions and answers ad orthodoxos , all the rest alleged , pag. . by mr. b. is manifestly impertinent , and his genuine writing yields a good evidence against the use of infant-baptism , as unknown to him , as may appear by what is said before . mr. b. in his praefestinantis morator , says sect. . seeing you deny nothing in justin martyrs words , you must yield that it was known to mothers that their infants were of gods kingdom , and then certainly they were church-members , and known disciples or christians . to which i reply , that i have not justin martyr now by me , and do doubt whether in that passage of the epistle ad zenam & serenum , he did mean infants , sith the term is [ children ] which may be meant of persons who are come to some age capable of understanding ; and if the words be meant of infants , yet it may be very well conceived that the meaning is , that of such is the kingdom of heaven , that is the kingdom of glory , and that not in respect of their present , but future estate , as when it is said , matth. . . blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake , for theirs is the kingdom of heaven ; that is , they shall have a great reward in heaven , vers . . and then it neither proves their present being of gods visible kingdom , nor that they were church-members , and known disciples or christians , and to be baptized . this testimony for the antiquity of infant-baptism i remember not alleged by any before mr. b. and therefore besides the impertinency of the words , as he himself allegeth them , i see no need to search any further into it . his allegation , pag. . out of iraeneus is impertinent , wherein besides other frivolous inferences out of his words he tels us , that irenaeus cannot mean by sanctifying , internal real sanctifying onely , for then according to their exposition of renascuntur , it should be but tautology , q. d. [ he sanctifieth all that are sanctified or new born ] whereas had he heeded these words set down by himself , this imagined tautology had been seen to be his meer mistake ; for his words are , omnes venit per semet ipsum salvare , he came to save men of all ages , as dr. hammond renders it , not as mr. b. he sanctifieth all that are sanctified . and yet if they had been thus , he sanctifieth by himself all that are born again or sanctified by him , it had not been a tautology , sith it is manifest that irenaeus by [ per semetipsum ] meant by the patern or example of his own age , and then it is no tautology , but hath this plain sense , that all that are sanctified by christ , he came to sanctifie them by the patern or example of his own age , and therefore lived in every age of a man , which is the purport of irenaeus his discourse in that place , which is by all sorts of writers censured as his mistake having said so much of mr. bs. mistakes , and thereby sufficiently shewed that no writer in the two first centuries mentions infant-baptism , and therefore mr. bs. speech is most false , that he shall easily prove that infant-baptism was used in the church as high as the apostles days , as there is any sufficient history extant to inform us , i leave the examining of the testimonies for baptizing of infants , or against them , till i have finished the review of the dispute from scripture testimonies , and then i intend not onely to examine what mr. b. hath scribled in his plain scripure proof , &c. part . . chap. . and in his praefestinantis morator , sect. . but also what mr. ms. friend dr. young ( as i am informed ) and what dr. hammond ( men better acquainted with the writings of the ancients than mr. b. or mr. bl. ) have said about the antiquity of infant-baptism , and do no whit doubt but that i shall with the lords assistance make good the assertions of the first part of my examen , that first , infant-baptism is not so ancient as is pre ended ; secondly , that as it is now taught it is a late innovation , meaning as it is taught by the assembly , mr. m. and the reformed churches called calvinists . as for mr. bs. assertion , that he should easily prove that the deferring of baptism came in with the rest of popery upon popish or heretical grounds , if he mean the deferring it till a person were catechized and of years sufficient to answer by himself to the three questions , about repentance , faith , and obedience , which were still put to the baptized , it is not onely vain and inconsiderate , but notoriously false , it being the constant order of the church to baptize after catechising , and the baptizing of infants onely an exception from the common rule and order , in case of danger of death , till after angustines days , who flourished in the fifth century . the grounds on which tertullian and gregory nazianzen did perswade the delaying of baptism , were neither popish nor heretical , as their words alleged in my exercit. sect. . shew . but on the contrary , the hastening of infant-baptism manifestly appears by the words of tertullian , and gregory nazianzen , alleged there , and of ●yrian , and augustine , together with the relations of gregory nazianzens and austins baptism alleged in my examen , part. . sect. , . to have come from the popish conceit , that without baptism infants could not come to gods kingdom , or were damned . i deny not , deferring of baptism to have been an abuse upon sundry misconceits set down in mr. ms. defence , pag. , , , . but not one of them popish , except that of washing away sins by it , which was the very ground of hastening infant-baptism , as appears from the passages forenamed by me . that which made persons of years defer their own baptism , made them hasten the baptism of their infants . whereas mr. b. would have mr. cradocks gospel liberty read , i have read it , and do finde that neither in his second part , chap. . nor here , mr. cradock is well used by mr. b. mr. cradock pag. . counts the custome of the church the weakest rule to discern by , and then onely he leaves christians to it , when there is no other light to go forward . mr. b. himself pag. . concludes against mr. bedford , that in so material a thing as infant-baptism , to hold traditions apostolical , not contrary to scripture-custome , or which may not be confirmed from scripture , as our rule , is prejudicial to scripture , and a complying with papists . besides , i need not say anymore than mr. b. there saith about the uncertainty of traditions unwritten , and customes of the ancients , which may serve for the present till a fuller answer be made to that calumniating question in his praefestinantis morator , sect. . do not you care to smite through christianity , so you may bring down infant-baptism ? which he hath as much need to answer as my self ; for he shews pag. . by the uncertainty about easter , the mistake of irenaeus about christs age , how uncertain the relations of the ancients are about things not set down in scripture . and for the customes of christians an age or two after the apostles , writers do shew many corrupt customes came in about easter , lent , infant-communion , sending the communion to the absent , mingling water with wine , monastick profession , honoring of martyrs ; about baptism , giving milk and honey to the baptized , anointing them , the use of the sign of the cross , which grew to a very great number in augustines time so as that in his . epistle to januarius , he complained , as is before mentioned , and yet they increased after in the heighth of popery , by reason of the innumerable company of humane ceremonies , insomuch as that the pure worship and truth of the gospel was shadowed so much , as that for the abundance of such leavs , the fruit of the gospel-worship and doctrine was very little or scarce discernible , and christian religion was almost wholly placed in those ceremonies . and therefore however there were weight in that argument of the apostle , we have no such custome , nor the churches of god of those times , yet especially in matters of ceremonies and positive worship the former after the apostles days , much less the present customes of the holiest saints and churches should not be of any great weight in cases controverted , except when they serve to expound some passages of the scripture that are cleared by them . yet this will no whit infringe the validity of the testimony of the ancients about the canonical books , or right readings of the scripture , no more than the discrediting of the jewish rabbins relations about their traditions doth infringe their testimony about the books of the old testament , though mr. b. in his praefestinantis morator , sect. . would insinuate , as if denying the certainty of austins rule about apostolical traditions must infer an uncertainty about the canonical scripture , which shews his proness to calnmniate me , and his inconsiderateness in not observing how this may be objected against his own speeches , pag. , as well as mine . as for mr ▪ bs. tenth position , though i grant it as it is set down , yet in his amplyfying of it there are sundry things that need animadversions . . that whereas he speaks of some , that disclaim reason because they require express words of scripture , and content not themselves with his supposed evident consequences ; he may know that i have often acknowledged consequences good proof from scripture , and if others do deny consequences , i do imagine that if they were rightly understood , it would appear that they deny onely such far-fetcht consequences as are used about infant-baptism , resting upon such hypotheses as are taken for granted , when they have need of proof , or such consequences as are drawn from the rites of the jews to the sacraments of the new testament , which if it be their meaning , mr. bs. censure of them as sensless ignorant wretches is too harsh and magisterial . . to what he saith , will you allow of such an argument for infant-baptism as christ brings for the resurrection ? i answer for my self and the people of bewdley , to whom that speech was intended , we will : but withall i say , that in viewing of his book i discern nothing but mr. bs. vanity , in imagining his arguments to be like christs , when upon trial they have little in them but superficial reasonings urged with much confidence and importunity upon mistakes , and stuffed with impertinent texts , frivolous questions , and childish wonderings , fitted like things set in fields and gardens to fright birds , to deter the shallow heads of this age from the truth , who either have no minde , or no ability to examine it scholastically . this is my judgment of it . chap. . after all his ten positions , mr. b. hath three more propositions , the first about the difficulty of it , in amplifying of which he confesseth the point of infant-baptism to be such , as the most godly learned impartial divines cannot agree in , after all their writings , disputing , studying , and praying ; which being true , it is most unjust in maresius that in his sixth question he makes the error of anabaptists intolerable , in ministers , that they will not permit such as deny infant-baptism to preach , nor will either themselves hear them , or pray with them , or suffer their hearers , but renounce communion with them , and make separations from them , and so shew themselves schismaticks , yea , and in their pulpits and writings endeavour to make them odious , exciting magistrates to imprison , expell , and destroy them ; on the otherside the parlament is justified in that speech of theirs in the declaration ordered march . . to be published in answer to the scots commissioners paper , that the opinion against the baptism of infants is such , as wherein in former ages as well as this , learned men have differed both in opinion and practice , and that therein they held it fit that men should be convinced by the word of god , with gentleness and reason , and not beaten out of it by force and violence . but mr. b. hath another fling at my speech , that it is an easie point , and that the reason why so many divines did not discern it , was their wilfulness or negligence , and this he imputes to want of humility , modesty , conscientiousness , and that he should tremble to pass so high a censure , forgetting what a heavy censure he had past before on others of discovering a seared conscience ▪ either taking error for no sin , or else daring to venture on sin without fear , and betraying their own souls by their laziness , p. . who should be antipaedobaptists without reading , and studying first some books there named , calling others ignorant sensless wretches , with much more of this kinde over all his book , in which it is frequent with him to censure me , my answers and speeches , as if they shewed some fearfull spiritual judgment fallen on me , when his own mistakes through heedlesness , or uncharitableness , are all the occasion of such a censure . but for my speech here , i say still , that i know not how to say otherwise , and yet deprehend not any such pride ▪ immodesty , or want of conscientiousness in my speech , nor any such high censure as he should tremble to pass , but as humble and fair an answer as is to be given to the question . godly , learned , and humble men have differed in the points of prelacy , ceremonies , ordinances , even in things that in themselves were easie to be discerned . what censure is easier than this , when some of them have continued in an error easily discernible , to say it hath been through wilfulness or negligence ? which things are incident to the best and ablest , when they have a conceit of the point as of small moment , specially in comparison of peace and unity , when prejudice by education , determinations of councils , schools , leading writers , magistrates censures , &c. prepossessing them , draw them from examining it , or if they do examine it , makes them willing to satisfie themselves with imperfect and raw answers to their scruples , and most of all , when the loss of preferment , friends , estate , liberty comes to be in question , and pre-engagements make it grievous to retract . what i said of this is manifest by the instance i gave about lutheran consubstantiation , which m. b. should have shewed not to be appositely brought , and not carp and cavil at my words so often as he doth ( though they were but in a speech in private conference ) that he may paint me out in as ugly shape as he can , specicially to those of bewdley , my dear auditors heretofore , but now causlesly by his affrightments estranged from me ; which if it be not a fruit of malevolence in him i know not what to call it . as for his talk of his own doubts and pains to resolve himself , and the easiness and plainness of the grounds of it , it satisfies not me , but still i am suspitious of his negligence in not considering better many of those things he hath taken up . in which i am confirmed from his own confessions of prejudice , unwillingness to be put on this business , in that it diverted him from other enjoyments and studies , and from his hasty printing , his indistinct handling specially of his second argument , never clearly opening his terms , nor shewing the hypotheses on which he builds his second main argument , his disorderly placing his proofs , his heaping up impertinent texts , his mistakes of my answers , his overly reading my writings out of contempt of them , his frivolous questions , and expostulations , &c. and for his inference about my wilfulness or negligence , it is but a further piece of petulancy to insinuate that of me , in which my apology , sect. . might have undeceived him , though it were not then so easie to discern that error as now , after so much debating of it , did not pride , prejudice , fear , or some other partial affection hinder . and for mr. bs. conceit of his grounds , though i neither finde them easie nor plain , yet it is no marvel others discern not how infant-baptism can be inferred from them , which can at most prove a reasonableness of the thing , as mr. bedford ▪ dr. field , dr. hammond , and others speak , but not an institution of god , which must be gathered from precept or example in the n. t. and can onely warrant our practice as the minde of god in meer positives about worship in the new testament . in the explication of his second proposition , pag. . he again objects my speech , that mr. ms. principle on which he establisheth his proof from circumcision for infant-baptism is one of the first condemned heresies , by which i meant that proposition which he hath in his sermon , pag. . that all gods commands and institutions about the sacraments of the jews binde us as much as they did them , in all things which belong to the substance of the covenant , and were not accidental to them , in which thus much is maintained , that some part of the command of circumcision , and the other sacraments of the jews , binde us as much as they did the jews , which is expresly condemned , acts . . as subverting the souls of the gentiles , and is called , the heresie of the false apostles , by the century-writers , cent. . lib. . cap. . and others condemn it under the title of judaism . but then saith mr. b. mr. m. is an heretick with me , and all the divines in the world that go his way . to which i answer , this inference hath too much shew of sycophancy , being urged so often , and to the people of bewdly , my quondam auditors . for , . though i say that doctrine is such an heresie , yet i do not say mr. m. still holds it as his words did import ; yea , i did acknowledg in my apology , pag. . and in this writing sect. . that mr. m. doth deny that we are tied to any practise of the ritual part , which is indeed to retract his former speech in his sermon . . but were it tru that he did still hold it , yet it would not follow , that he were an heretick with me . for , . i should not take him to be an heretick that holds that doctrine which is heresie , if it were not so directly , but onely by consequence not heeded , as this of his is . . nor do i take him to be an heretick that doth hold that which is heresie directly , except he hold it in or with a party made to maintain it . and therefore i do once more protest against mr. bs. calumniatory inference , and deny that i account mr. m. an heretick , and yet i account still his principle mentioned , if it were held as the words in the sermon did import , to contain one of the first condemned heresies , to wit , judaism . to this calumny mr. b. adds another . because i used the words of the apostle , acts . , . in a sermon , he from the report of his notary , and a multitude of my auditors , likely his tale tellers , without sending to me about the truth of it , prints what he received from them , and thence infers , that the baptizing of persons of years , notwithstanding their infant-baptism , is taken by me for a fundamental point , which the salvation or damnation of men doth necessarily depend on . or what i meant to say [ their bloud be on their own heads ] he knows not . and yet he conceives me to contradict my self when i blame the papists for making baptism of necessity to salvation . to which i reply , that herein mr. b. shews his inconsiderateness , or his minde to calumniate , or both . for , . he might have interpreted my words , as i think when i spake them they were meant , in reference to other duties which i had taught them , with that of baptism . . if it were meant particularly of baptism , yet the threatning i conceive was not to the bare omission , but to the omission joyned with opposition . . i am sure , if i did threaten , their bloud should be on their head for omission of baptism , it was not simply or barely for the omission , but for the omission after teaching , and upon supposition of conviction , by it of their duty ▪ and this i think mr. b. doth not stick to do to his hearers , in case after teaching and supposed conviction by it , they practise not a duty , though non-fundamental , as suppose reproving of their neighbours . for then they live presumptuously in sin , and such sinning consists not with sincerity and truth of regeneration . and yet this doth not suppose the point in it self fundamental , that is , such as the meer ignorance of it , or the bare omission of it doth damn a person , or exclude out of the kingdom of god : in which sense i blame the papists for maintaining a necessity of an infants being baptized to its entering into the kingdom of heaven . but mr. b. doth not think god lays so great a stress on this point , as i and others do . answ. that which i hold is this , . that baptism with water is an ordinance of christ that bindes christians now as well as in the apostles days , mat. . . mark . , . act. . . & . , . ephes. . . and i detest the audacious impiety of socinians , and those in our days , who count themselves above ordinances , that is as mr. b. well interprets it , plain scripture proof , &c. pag. . above obedience to god , and so gods , as being one of the most palpable delusions of unsound men in our days , who place their perfection in a manifest disobedience to christs appointment , and some of them in an antichristian presumption , as if they sate in the temple of god , and shewed themselves as god , do most arrogantly of their own heads , without any allowance of god , make void the express prime ordinance of the lord jesus christ , calling it a low dispensation , &c. i hope i shall have liberty hereafter to shew the frivolous allegations and pretences of these men . in the mean time they may see what mr. laurence , mr. bartlet , m. b. pag. . of this his book , have written for these ordinances . . i hold that every minister of the gospel is bound , as to preach the gospel , so to baptize those that are made disciples , matth. . . . that every believing christian is by necessity of precept tied to be baptized , that is , dipped in water , in testimony of his profession of christ his lord , upon his being made a disciple of christ , mat. . . mark . , . acts . . & . . . that this is ordinarily where and when it may be had without unmercifulness , defect of water , or some other like reason , a necessary means of salvation , mark . . pet. . . tit. . , . eph. . , . . that infant-baptism is not the performance of the duty of being baptized according to christs appointment . . that in a regular and orderly way , persons , notwithstanding their pretended infant-baptism , are not to be admitted to the lords supper till they be baptized upon profession of their faith in christ , acts . , cor. . , , . & . . these things i may hereafter have opportunity to debate more fully . as for that which mr. b. saith , pag. , . it doth no whit overthrow this necessity which i assert , but rather confirm it : for gods freeing us from the great burden of jewishrites makes it the rather necessary for us to obey christs appointment in those few sacraments he hath ordained , which mr. b. truly saith , as they are duties they are great , and so in themselves considered , and not onely in respect of the consequences of them . and he saith truly , pag. . all christs commands must be obeyed , both great and small , so far as we know them . yea , mr. b. scripture proof , pag. . saith , baptism with water is heb. . . reckoned among the foundations or principles which are of standing use , and therefore it is so it self . nor is his interpretation right , that the things ascribed to baptism are ascribed to it without the external washing . in all these places , rom. . , . cor. . . gal. . . ephes. . , . peter . . the outward use of water is expressed , though the things ascribed to it do presuppose something more , as he himself allegeth them , pag. . which is the meaning of that speech , pet , . . not the putting away of the filthiness of the flesh , that is , not it onely , but the answer of a good conscience towards god joyned with it . and whereas mr. b. tell us , that we shall never be able to justifie it , if we lay out the hundredth part , or perhaps the thousand part of our time , study , talk or zeal upon this question , i confess this may be true at some times , in some persons : but if other tenets be clear , and other duties not neglected , and this becomes a doubt of conscience , and fals into frequent practice , so as that it concerns them much for themselves , people , and little ones to be resolved in it , else they shall sin either by omitting a duty , or by doing a thing with gain-saying or doubting conscience , it is justifiable , though they bestow more than a hundredth part of their time and study upon it . and especially if the person be a minister called to be a guide to the people , and by special providence and solemn covenant led forth to vindicate the truth in such a time , when otherwise it is likely to be suppressed , and the assertors of it oppressed . in these and such like cases it may be unjustifiable , if a person do not spend more than the hundredth part of his time about this question ; else neither the hussites will be justified in spending so much time in opposing the half-communion , nor the protestants in opposing transubstantiation , nor the non-conformists in opposing the ceremonies of bishops . mr. tho. goodwin preface to mr. cottons dialogue for infant baptism , saith truly , the due application of baptism to all those persons christ would have it administred unto , cannot but be apprehended by all that have any insight into the controversies of these times , to be of very high importance . not that i like their carriage that neglect other necessary things , and spend all their time , study , talk , and zeal about this , such hypocrisy i should declaim against with him , remembring what our saviour said in a like case , matth. . . these things ought ye to have done , and not to have left the other undone . as for m. bs. third proposition concerning the grounds on which the point of infant baptism stands , that they are of great moment , because what he saith , rests on the heap of consequences he infers from the denial of infant baptism ( of which there is scarse any one true ) and the shewing them to be but vain surmises , depends on the dispute it self , i shall therefore respite the vindicating the truth , from them , till i come to examine in this review the arguments from scripture urged on both sides , after which shall come in those from humane testimony and reason , unto which i now apply my self . sect . v. the first argument from the institution , mat. . . mark . . and the practice in the new testament against infant baptism is urged . mr. b. saith pag. . he will prove , . that it is the will of god that some infants should be baptized . . that it is the will of god that all infants of believers ordinarily should be baptized . this latter doth better state the question , which is about the practice of those reformed churches that baptize infants , whose doctrine is , that it is the privilege of a believers child . yet mr. b. and m. baillee for some advantage chuse to undertake the proof of the former , whereas the true state of it is , as in my examen s. . and mr. ms. sermon , whether the infants of believers are to be baptized with christs baptism of water by the lawful minister according to ordinary rule ? i hold the negative , mr. marshall , dr. homes , mr. geree , mr. blake , mr. baillee , mr. cobbet , mr. baxter , &c. hold the affirmative . my dispute is to this purpose . the ordinary rule for baptizing is christs institution , john the baptists , and the apostles appointment and practice : but neither according christs institution , nor according to john baptists , or the apostles command or practice , or any other approved example in scripture , is the baptizing of infants of believers ; therefore the baptizing of infants of believers by a lawfull minister is not according to ordinary rule . the major is confessed by all sorts , specially protestants and anti-prelatists . mr. bs. words are cited by me in my praecursor , s. . and the force of his reason is shewed here before s. . to contain this proposition , what in baptism we have no warrant for by word or example in all the new testament ( since the solemn institution of baptism mat. . ) we are not to do ; and much more to like purpose may be gathered from other passages of his page , . and mr. m. in his sermon on chron. . . is very punctuall for gods command to be observed in his worship . the article of the church of england against reservation of the bread &c. hath these words , the sacrament of the lords supper was not by christs ordinance reserved , carried about , lifted up , or worshipped , whereby it is apparent that reservation of the bread is condemned , because it is not by christs ordinance , though mr. perkins in his right way of dying well confess it to be antient . bellarmine himself tom . . cont . de sacr . bapt . l. . c. . sacramentum non pendet nisi à divina institutione . chamier tom . . panstr . cath lib. . cap. . sect . . ●is solis baptizare competit , quibus commissio data est baptizandi . haec propositio per se patet : quia baptismi institutio pendet à sola voluntate instituentis : itaque ex hac sola me●●enda : quomodo eucharistiae . lib. . c. . s. . quod si igitur tota sacramenti essentia est ab institutione divina , profectò hac violata , non potest sacramentum consistere . c. . s. . he cites calvins words . institutio enim christi est certa regula , à qua ▪ si deflect as , jam rectum non tenes . s. . at nos , contra hanc sceleratam audaciam ratum habemus illud bielis in canonem lectione . sacramentum irritum reputatur si contra institutionem celebretur . l. . c. . s. . sed non peccari in missa privata negatur ; non enim aliter potest si contra institutionem admittatur : sic consentiunt omnes peccatum fuisse , cum baptizarentur mortui : quia videlicet institutio habuit doceri , baptizarique gentes : in quibus mortui nulli numerantur . sic emendatum fuit , quod olim admittebatur , ut infantibus porrigeretur eucharistia : quoniam institutio habet , ut seipsum probet , qui de hoc pane sit esurus : similis omnino & communionis ratio ; quandoquidem disertum , accipite , edite . mr. selden lib. . de syned . ebrae . c. . pag. . modorum & temperamentorum ejusmodi ex arbitrio humano accessione , ut id quod esset institutum aliquod divinum novaretur aut ullatenus mutaretur , nunquam ritè permissum est . if all these testimonies satisfy not , the apostle pauls speech cor. . . yields us this truth , that the institution of christ is that whereby an abuse in a sacrament is to be reformed , and therefore is the ordinary rule according to which the sacrament is to be administred . whence the new annot. on that place infer , the only way to reform any abuses in the church , is to have recourse to the word of god and first institution . and even the assembly itself confession of faith chap. ▪ make many things used by papists , as private masses , half-communion , adoration , elevation , reservation of the bread , contrary to the nature of the sacrament , and to the institution of christ , and prove it only by these texts . cor. . . mark ▪ . . cor. ▪ , , , , . math. . . which are no proof without this proposition , to vary from the institution in things appointed is evil , as being an humane invention , or worshipping of god after the commands of men , contrary to matth. . . the minor is confessed by mr. cawdrey sab. rediv. part . ch . . num . . we have not in scripture either precept or example of children baptized . mr. m. in his sermon pag. . that there is neither express command or example in the new testament that children should be , or were baptized , and pag. . it is said indeed that they taught and baptized , and no express mention of any other , and a little after , both john and christs disciples and apostles did teach before they baptized , because then no other were capable of baptism : but that we may not seem to beg what is to be proved , i further argue thus . the institution and practice of the sacrament of christi an baptism is set down in the new testament ; but baptizing of infants of believers is neither according to the institution of christ , nor any practice or example therein , ergo. the major is plain of it self : for christian baptism being a sacrament of the new testament , must have its institution and example to regulate it , there or no where . it is frequently put into the definition of the sacraments of the new testament , that they are ordained by christ himself , and for defect of christs institution in the new testament , sundry things are denyed to be sacraments of the new testament . the minor is proved from the texts which speak of baptism , either of the institution or practise . from both which i argue thus . matth. . . is christs institution , mr. b. calls it the solemn institution of baptism : but the baptizing of infants of believers is not according to christs institution of baptism matth. . . ergo. the minor is proved , first from the subjects appointed to be baptized , to wit disciples of all nations . they that are not disciples of christ are not appointed to be baptized . norton resp . ad apollon . c. . pag. . non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 baptizandi : matth. . . discipulate baptizantes . but infants of believers are not disciples of christ ; therefore they are not appointed to be baptized . that [ disciples ] included in the verb [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples ] as [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is rom. . . in [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is the substantive to [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , them ] is proved from the expression , john . where it is said [ when the pharisees heard that iesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , maketh disciples and baptizeth ] this the evangelist saith was done by the disciples of christ. now what they did before in judaea , they were after appointed to do among all nations , matth. . . therefore no other were appointed to be baptized than were baptized before , iohn . . ( saving only with greater extent ) that is , disciples made of , or among , or in all nations . beza annot . in mat. . . discipulos facite , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est discipulos mihi facite ex omnibus gentibus , make to me disciples out of all nations . ursin explic. catech . part . . q. verbum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quo christus utitur proprie est discipulos facite , quod declaratur a ioanne c. . . the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] which christ useth , is properly [ make disciples ] which is declared by iohn ch . . v. . pareus comment . in matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , est idem quod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , discipulos facere christo , ut explicatur iohn . . it is the same with to make disciples to christ , as it is explained john . . the new annot ▪ on matthew . . of the first edition ( which is now altered in the second edition , to hinder truth ) teach ] greek , make disciples of , as iohn . . all nations ] not iews alone , but gentiles also acts . , , . chamier panstr . cath . tom . . l. . c. . s. . it was the express command of christ , teach or make disciples in all nations . norton resp . ad apollon : c. . pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to make disciples , joh. . . cameron in his lecture on mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to make a proselyte , is as mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is said for [ to make a disciple ] . this is confirmed in that what is said of joseph mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rendred by the vulgar latin , beza , our english , &c. [ who also himself was iesus disciple ] is iohn . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being disciple to iesus . whereby it is apparent that in both places , in matthew the noun [ disciple ] is included in the verb , though in matthew . . it be used actively [ make disciples ] in the other matthew . . it is used passively [ he was himself a disciple ] the same is to be conceived of the two other places where the word is used matthew . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 made a disciple . acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had made many disciples . and this is further proved from the parallel place mark . . where [ preach the gospel to every creature ] answers to [ make disciples all nations ] and [ he that believeth and is baptized ] answers to [ baptizing them ] which plainly shews the subject ▪ of baptism to be disciples , and those disciples to be believers , as chamier proves panst . cath . tom . . l. . c. . s. . but such are not infants of believers . ergo , they are not appointed to be baptized . . those only christ appointed to be baptized to whom the gospel was preached , and the persons taught ; but such are not infants , ergo. the major is plain both by the words , mat. . . make disciples , which is by teaching , and more plainly from mark . . go preach the gospel to every creature , which answers to [ disciple all nations ] and this is to precede baptism . this is confirmed by the apostles practice , which shews how they understood christs words , and how we should understand them , for they baptized none till they were taught , ergo neither should we . conformable hereto is the constant exposition & observation of former and later writers and expositors , of whom as they have occurred to me i shall set down their words . athanasius orat. contra arianos . ideoque salvator non quovis modo baptizandum praecepit , sed primum dixit docete , ac deinde baptizate in nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti , ut ex doctrina recta fides oriretur , et cum fide baptismatis integra initiatio perficeretur . hieron . in mat. . . primum docent omnes genses : deinde doctas intingunt aqua non enim potest fieri ut corpus baptismi recipiat sacramentum , nisiante anima fidei susceperit veritatem : ordo praecipuus : jussit apostolis ut primū docerent universas gentes : deinde fidei intingerent sacramento et post fidem ac baptisma quae essent observanda praeciperent : which words are also ascribed to hilarius in matthew . , . and the like to beda , anselmus , aquinas , paschasius , rabanus , lucas brugensis , iansenius , and many others on matth. . . which were it necessary might be produced : whence the ancients deduced , that persons were first to be catechized , and then to be baptized : which was constantly observed , except in case of present danger of death towards children of believers , untill some later ages . but because later protestant writers are of more esteem with most of my antagonists , i will adde some of them , calvin in matthew . . apud marlor . baptizari jubet christus qui nomen evangelio dederint , seque professi fuerint discipulos . ursin cat. explic. part . . q. . quasi dicat colligite mihi ecclesiam per verbum , et quos feceritis mihi discipulos toto corde credentes eos omnes et solos baptizate & mihi areliquis separate . pareus com. in matt. . . colligite mihi ecclesiam inter omnes gentes , praedicatione vestra adducentes eos ad fidem . alsted . theol. polem . parte . pag. . ut praecipitur ex cohaerentia sententiarum matth. . docete omnes gentes ( nempe praedicando evangelium ) baptizantes eos . confer cum marc. . becm . exercit. th. . p. , . doctrina praecedit , baptismus sequitur . mr. cotton , the way of the churches in new england , chap. . sect . . and indeed the commission which christ gave his apostles , holdeth it forth that they were by preaching to make disciples before they baptized them and their children . this later is his own addition , the rest is right and to my purpose . but sure christ did not appoint to preach the gospel to infants , therefore he did not appoint to baptize them . for christ appointed his disciples to baptize none but they who were first preached to , and consequently they do it without commission from christ , who baptize infants ordinarily without preaching the gospel to them . i suppose no man will conceive christ appointed infants of a day old to have the gospel preached to them , it had been a ridiculous injunction ; therefore neither did he appoint them to be baptized . for both commands are joined together concerning the same persons . . the institution is , to baptize into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , but the baptizing of infants is not into the name of the father , son and holy spirit ; ergo their baptism is not according to the institution . the minor is proved from the right understanding of the meaning of the phrase of baptizing into the name of the father , son and holy ghost , beza annot . in matthew . . into the name ] that is the father , son and holy spirit being called upon . and this interpretation is confirmed from the words of ananias to paul acts . . arise and be baptized , and wash away thy sins , calling on the name of the lord , where is injoined calling on the name of the lord with baptizing , which explaineth what christ had appointed , mat. . . of baptizing into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit . or to be baptized into the name is to be baptized with the person baptized , his devoting himself to the service of the father , son , and holy spirit . this is gathered from the phrase cor. . . were ye baptized into the name of paul ? beza annot . in acts . . baptizari autem in ejus nomen dicimur , cui nos per baptismum dicamus ac consecramus : quamobrem recte paulus negat sese in nomen suum quemquam baptizâsse . or to be baptized into the name of the father , son , and spirit , is to be baptized with profession of that doctrine , to wit , that jesus is the son of god , act. . . testifyed by the father , son and spirit , mat. . . john . , , . as to be baptized into johns baptism , acts . . whether the same with being baptized into the name of the lord jesus , verse . as those conceive that expound the words as spoken of what iohn did , or different , yet it was with profession of doctrine , as beza annot . in acts . . baptizari in ioannis baptisma significat doctrinam quam ioannes annunciabat , ac baptismi symbolo obsignabat , profiteri , & baptismo adhibito amplecti . i will add the words of grotius annot . in matth. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] cum locutio , haec varias habeat ex hebraismo significationes , eam his praeferendam arbitraor , quae baptismo maximè propria est . est autem baptizari in aliquem , vel in ejus nomen , se ei auctorare atque devovere , & de ejus nomine appellari ●elle . paulus cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , respiciens illud exodi . . crediderunt in deum & mosen servum ejus , id est , mosi tanquam dei ministro cum bona siducia regendos se commisere , sic paulus negat quenquam baptizatum in suum nomen , corinth . . , . hoc est , sibi velut novi dogmatis auctori mancipatum . maimomides de bello capta 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : baptizet eam in nomen proselytarum , id est , in eam religionem quam profitentur proselytae . christiani igitur tres sui dogmatis auctores agnoscere jubebantur , patrem , filium & spiritum sanctum , nihilque ut necessarium admittere , quod non ab eis esset profectum , id est , quod non à patre ortum , à filio proditum , à spiritu verò esset partim explicatum apertius , partim obsignatum . administratur enim baptismus , ut loquitur hilarius , in confessione , & auctoris & unigeniti & dom . but infants of believers do neither call upon the father , son , and holy spirit , nor devote themselves to their service , nor profess the doctrine of christ , therefore they are not baptized into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , according to christs appointment . mr. m. defence page . calls these petty reasonings , and saith , that baptizing into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost should be interpreted to be invocation of gods name , and so to make baptism and prayer all one , is strange divinity . i reply . my words are perverted by him : i said baptizing is to be with the party baptized his invocation of the name of the lord , not that baptism and prayer are all one , but that they should be concomitants , and together in the use of baptism after christs appointment . and this is no strange divinity to others , however it be to mr. m. the words of ananias acts . . beza on matthew . . shew it to be no strange or forced divinity . becman exercit. theol. . p. . hath the like , in nomen hoc est invocato nomine christi baptizamur . the new annot. on cor. . . the third reason taken from the form and end of baptism , wherein we make a promise to christ , calling on also the name of the father , and the holy ghost . the words of grotius a learned man , whatever his other qualities were , shew it to be old divinity . annot. on matthew . . he speaks thus . post has ergo stipulationes atque responsiones , quas verba sacramenti tertullianus vocat ad militiae morem alludens , sequebatur baptismus , cui accedebant preces in quibus nominabantur pater , filius , & spiritus sanctus . orationem hanc propriè ad patrem directam indicare videtur justinus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . deinde , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . solemne ejus invocations verbum erat abba pater , ut not at chrysostomus . ad rom. . the words in chrysostome hom . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that is , by which we cry abba father . this holy ministers know what it is , rightly commanding to say this word first at the mystical prayer , meaning at baptism . grotius goes on thus . his si addas id quod acts . . refertur ab anania dictum paulo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , videbis tum eum qui baptizabatur , tum eos qui baptismo aderant ( neque enim in toto coetu exercebatur primis temporibus , quod ostendunt , &c. ) solitos orare deum patrem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quomodo ipse orare nos docet , john . , . ut sidem ejus qui baptizabatur , & liberam illam christianismi professionem muneraret spiritu suo sancto per gradus quosdam , quorum initium erat , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . grotius notes to like purpose on luke . . where it is said , jesus being baptized , and praying , the heaven was opened ; which shews christ prayed at his baptism , and thereupon the spirit descended ; which the ancients conceived as a rule , and is at least recorded as an example to be imitated . mr. cobbet in his just vindic. pag. . cals this new light , which if he mean ironically , ( as it is likely he doth ) he may hereby perceive , that he is mistaken , and for what he excepts against this exposition , that neither in the baptizing of the samaritans , acts . was that rule observed , nor was it possible that the three thousand baptized in one day , acts . should arise each of them , and call upon the name of the lord , as they were baptized ; it proceeds upon a mistake , as if no calling on the name of the lord were sufficient , but that which was set and solemn before the publick assembly , whereas neither is baptism necessary to be administred before the publick assembly : grotius proves out of justin martyrs words , and otherwise , that it was administred not as they now do infant ▪ sprinkling in the publick meeting place , but in some place without , aside from the publick assembly , and the calling on the name of the lord was or might be ejaculatory , whether in the heart onely , or by words , praying to the father by christ for the spirit . mr. m. makes this inference from my words ; then it seems if the party baptized call on the name of the lord by prayer , that 's all that is intended by baptizing into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . but this is but another of his pervertings of my words : for in the same place i joyned with it , devoting themselves to the service of , and adherence to the father , son , and spirit , which i proved out of cor. . , . which proves plainly that to be baptized into the name of the father , son , and spirit , notes not a ministers commission from the father , son , and spirit , nor a form of words to be used by him at baptism , whether the party baptized understand it or no , but in baptizing , engaging the party baptized to acknowledg the father , son , and spirit , as lord and teacher , diod. annot. in cor. . . in mine own name ] as to binde them unto me to acknowledg me for their head. hence johns baptism is the doctrine he preached , and the baptized by him professed , mark . . acts . . & . . and the pharisees therefore were not baptized of john , luke . . because they should have professed johns doctrine , which they were against , if they had been baptized of him , as their disciples did their doctrine , and johns disciples did his . clear therefore it is , that [ baptizing into the name ] doth note not onely the act of the ministers of baptism , but also the party baptized his act of invocating , addicting , profession of service and doctrine , and obediently testifying it by that sign : for that is plain from the command , acts . . let every one of you be baptized in the name of jesus christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is the requiring of a duty from them conjoyned with repentance , and ●herefore to be baptized is not meerly passive , but implies a voluntary yielding of a person to it . and it is further proved from the words to paul , acts . . where he is commanded , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , arise , baptise , and wash , which all require voluntary action on his part , as well as ministration on ananias his part , out of which this argument is formed : they are not baptized into christs name , or his fathers , and spirits name , who do not perform the acts required in that expression ; but infants of believers do not perform the acts required in that expression ; therefore they are not baptized into christs name , or his fathers , o● spirits , according to the meaning of it in the institution . so that this argument is not a petty reasoning , but a solid reason , to prove infants baptism not such as christ appointed . as for mr. ms. frivolous question , were not the infants of the jews devoted to god by circumcision , though they could not actually devote themselves ? though i am not bound to answer his impertinent questions , yet i will tell him they were ; yet this is nothing to the business in hand , about the meaning of the phrase [ to be baptized into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit ] which manifestly implies the party baptized his act , which infants cannot do . whereas no where ▪ there is such a command [ be ye circumced in the name of jesus christ ] nor is it all one to be circimcised , as to be baptized ; which is still supposed but never proved . . i further urged , christ bids the apostles presently after baptism , teach them to observe what ever he commanded ; but this direction could not pertain to infants , they could not be taught to observe christs commands ; therefore neither were they appointed to be baptized : mr. m. denies that they were enjoyned presently to teach them to observe what christ commanded . but the text knits these together , baptizing and teaching , so as that they that were baptized should be taught , & that by them that baptized them ; which the apostles could not do , being to go up and down from place to place , to plant the churches in all nations , if they had been to baptize infants ; for then they must have staid many years till they came to understanding to be taught to observe what christ commanded . no man me thinks should imagine christs appointment to be thus , make infants disciples , and baptize them , and then after five , six , or ten years , when they are grown to some understanding , come again and teach them to observe what i have commanded , but that christ did appoint them to teach them presently after baptism , that is , in so many hours or days after that ordinance was administred , as it could be well done . nor doth mr. cobbet avoid this objection by saying , pag. . then they must be presently taught the whole minde of christ , which is impossible . for [ presently ] is not restained to an instant , but comprehends a just latitude of time for the doing of the thing , onely it notes that the beginning of it is to be not long after baptism , but sooner by much than it could be done to infants . mr. baxter plain scripture proof , pag. . argues thus , what christ hath conjoyned , man must not separate ; but christ hath conjoyned discipling and baptizing , ( i add , and teaching ) therefore we must not separate them . . the institution of christ is best understood by the command of the apostles , the resolution of philip , the practice of john baptist , the apostles , and other men sent by god to baptize ; but the apostle peter commanded first repentance and then baptism , acts . . philip resolved the eunuch demanding , what hindereth me to be baptised ? if thou believest with all thy heart , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thou maist , it is lawfull or allowed thee , acts . , . john the baptist , the apostles , and other holy men sent by god to baptize , baptized none but professors of repentance , faith , and being disciples of christ , as may appear by the texts mentioning their baptizing , mat. . . mark . . luke . . acts . ▪ & . , , ▪ & . . & . . & . , . & . , , , . & . . & . . & . . therefore christs institution is of baptizing onely professors of repentance , faith , and being disciples of christ , and therefore not infants of believers . the major cannot be denied by those that confess that scripture best expounds scripture , and that the apostles knew christs minde , and did observe it . the minor is manifest from the texts alleged . and mr. rutherfords words are express to that purpose , divine right of church ▪ government , cap. . q. . pag. . we reade that john baptist and the apostles baptized none but such as confessed their sins , and professed faith in christ jesus . to this mr. m. defence , pag. . says , that it would be a hard task for me to prove that john baptized none but upon profession of repentance . i reply , . it is proved already and confessed by mr. rutherford . . i did think mr. ms. own words , sermon pag . that john did teach before he baptized , because then no other were capable of baptism , did amount to as much , till mr. m. to help himself , referred [ then ] to the time untill parents were converted not to the time of johns and the apostles ministry , of which the objection was , to which in those words he answered . for the objection was , that they always taught and made them disciples , by teaching before they baptized any ; and mr. ms. words in his answer were , john and christs disciples , and the apostles , did teach before they baptized , because then no other were capable of baptism , which if not understood of the time of their ministery , it was an answer besides the objection . . mr. m. hath not yet shewed any other , but such baptized by them , and therefore it is probable in the highest degree of probability that no other were baptized by them . . i think an argument in this matter from the evangelists relation negatively is good proof , unless we will suppose john baptist and the apostles were defective in their duty , or the evangelists in their narrations of that which frequently ( if it had been their duty ) would have occurred , and their story lead them to mention , and it was of much concernment to the churches of god in after ages they should . . he saith , it would be hard to prove that john did impose or require confession of sin before baptism . reply . i think not , . what they did , sure was required of them , else it had not been an acceptable thing , and by john , else he had failed in his duty , luke . . but they confessed sin afore baptism ▪ matth. . . mark . . ergo. . he that preached repentance to them that came to be baptized , required confession of sins ( which is a chief part of it ) afore baptism ; but so did john , matth. . . ergo. . he that preached to them to prepare the way of the lord , required confession of sins afore baptism , for that was the preparing the way of the lord by bringing persons to confess sins , and then to baptise them ; but john did preach to prepare the way of the lord , mat. . . . he that preached the baptism of repentance , required confession of sin to baptism ; but john did preach the baptism of repentance , mark . . luke . . acts . . & . . to prevent this , saith mr. m. it is said , he baptized them eis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( unto repentance ) not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( in repentance ) as stated in actual repentance . but dare mr. m. in good earnest say that john baptist did admit persons to baptism that were not in a state of repentance ? if he should , i doubt not but to be able to prove the contrary from that which is said of those he baptized , matth. . . they were baptized of him in iordan , confessing their sins ; and mark . . they were all baptized of him in the river of iordan , confessing their sins ; [ all ] must not be understood simply , for so it were not true , but , as the matter requires , with this limitation , all that were baptized were baptized confessing of sins , which was a state of repentance , matth. . . the different state of those that believed iohn , and those that believed not , is expressed thus , the one repented that they might believe , and the other not . and by comparing it with luke . , . it appears they onely were baptized that believed iohn , and others not . but were it not mr. m. had been minded to wrangle , there had been no need to have proved this , his own words , that there was a new church to be constituted of those that should receive christ , sermon page . shews none were to be baptized but penitents , unless they were to be church members who were not in a state of repentance . would iohn admit manifest impenitents ? then the new church should consist of impenitents , and so no difference between the church and the world , them that receive christ and them that receive him not , all should be church-members . iohns baptism and christs is by protestants asserted to be all one , saving that the one pointed at christ to come after , acts . the other as already manifested by name , neither did admit any but penitents , and believers in shew . as for mr. ms. quirk , that he baptized 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matthew . 〈◊〉 . unto repentance , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in repentance . . i might urge erasmus his reading ad poenitentiam , at or upon their repentance , as the like is to be expounded matthew . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not [ unto ] but [ at the preaching of ionas . . there is no need ▪ for both are true , and may be proved out of the text , that he preached repentance to be before baptism and after . that he preached repentance to be before baptism is already proved , and pareus in his comment . on matthew . . disputing against maldonate the iesuite , who applies this confession of sins to auricular confession , urgeth the tense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is in the present tense , referring to the time of baptism , having confessed their sins , or then confessing their sins when baptized , not confessing their sins after as in auricular confession at the sacrament of penance as they call it . hereupon he urgeth , non prius baptizabantur postea confitebantur ut in●p●e fingit maldonatus , and concludes , that iohn rejected the pharisees when he saw their hypocrisy , v. . and infers that his auditors first in testimony of repentance confessed their sins , and then were baptized , and gathers this doctrine , to the sacraments no impenitents are to be admitted . it s true that he baptized them unto future repentance , that is so as that they were required and professed to repent and change their lives . therefore he required that they should bring forth fruits meet for repentance , luke . . and directed particularly wherin verse , , . initial repentance is prerequired to baptism , and continued repentance is to follow after , and therefore iohn baptists calling for repentance and preaching the baptism of repentance shew not only that this was the lesson they were all to learn , but that also as pareus proves , that they must all manifest that they repented afore he baptized them , and that all did and were tied to make confession of sins , notwithstanding mr : ms. saying . master m. sets down the judgement of very learned men who conceive their confession of sins was not because it is a necessary medium to all who should receive baptism , but to cleer his baptism from misconstruction , to thwart the opinion of justification by the works of the law. to which i say . . that were this granted , yet it avoids not my argument , who bring the matter of fact onely , it is enough for me at present if it appear that iohn baptized none but penitents . . yet the judgement of those very learned men is but their own saying , nor can it be right . for if the end of iohns requiring repentance was only to clear his baptism from misconstruction , because the men who came to be baptized of iohn , were such as had been educated in an opinion of justification by works of the law , & so more was required of them than of others , as it is usual to require more of an heretick for his admission into the bosome of the church , then he had required such confession of sins and repentance only of pharisees and their scholars , whereas he required it also of publicans , harlots , souldiers , as may be seen luke . , , , , . and indeed he required it of all for both ends , that he might contradict the pharisees doctrine , and because it was a necessary prerequisite to his baptism , because his baptism was contrary to the baptism that initiated proselytes into iudaism , in the nature of it , that is the doctrine taught by the baptist , and professed by the baptized , the pharisees baptism requiring observance of the law for righteousness , and iohns baptism requiring repentance for remission of sins , and therefore the pharisees rejected it , luke . , . so that in truth this judgement of those learned men about the reason of iohns baptism proves against mr. m. that repentance is to antecede baptism , and his allegation thereof may be retorted upon him . . to strengthen this argument from the institution of christ and practise apostolical , there are many passages in the epistles , which do prove that baptism was and ought to be with such profession and acts of the baptized , as do not nor can ordinarily be ascribed to infants of believers , and therefore they are not rightly baptized according to ordinary rule . ro. . , know ye not , saith the apostle , that so many of us as were baptized into iesus christ , were baptizd into his death ; therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father , even so we also should walk in newness of life , now to be baptized into death & christs death is by baptism to engage our selves to dy with christ to sin , with profession of purpose of newness of life and hope of resurrection . becman . exer. theol. . pag. . baptizari in mortem christi dicimur quatenus stipulamur nos credere in christum pro nobis mortuum & ipsius exemplo veluti en●care peccatum ne nobis dominetur . but this could not infants do therfore no insants were then baptized , and consequently ought not to be now . . cor. . . for even by or in one spirit have we been baptized into one body , whether jews or greeks , whether bond or free , and have been all made drink into one spirit , or as some copies have it , have been all made to drink or drench into one drink into one spirit . that here baptism with water and the drinking the cup in the lords supper are meant , is manifest , the apostle arguing from the end of those two rites for the union and communication between all christians , as cor. . , . he had done in the lords supper , and eph. . ▪ . he doth from baptism . and without that allusion the phrase is not intelligible . and the exception of the antibaptists is vain , that it is spirit-baptism not water-baptism , for it is indeed both , spirit-baptism from the spirit as the cause , and water-baptism together as the outward element . now hence three arguments arise against infant baptism . . all that were baptized into the body were baptized by one spirit as the concurrent cause as mr. b. saith rightly in his plain scripture proof , &c. page . that is together with the word , as ephes. . : is declared , by preaching of which the spirit was given , gal. ▪ . and this was presumed of all , as thes. . . . and elsewhere . and mr. b. truly saith in the same place , that it was all that were thus baptized into the body . but i subsume , infants were not thus baptized , ergo , no infants were then baptized , and consequently ought not to be now . . all that were thus baptized were also made to drink , or did drink themselves , or were drencht by their own act in the receiving the cup in the lords supper unto one spirit in communion and testification of one spirit , as cor. . , . but infants did not thus drink , ergo infants were not then baptized . . all that were counted members of the body of christ , or the church , were thus baptized , and made to drink . but infants were not thus baptized , and made to drink , for if so , they received the lords supper , therefore were not then visible church members , and consequently ought not to be so counted now . gal. . . for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus . . for as many of you as have been baptized into christ have put on christ. where the apostle proving that they were all the children of god by faith in christ , because they had put on christ , must needs intimate that it was by faith in christ jesus that they had put on christ , and then the apostles speech is this , as many of you as have been baptized into christ have by faith in christ jesus put on christ , and consequently so many as were baptized were believers , and therefore no infants were baptized for want of faith . ephes. . , . there is one body and one spirit , even as ye are called in one hope of your calling , one lord , one faith , one baptism . whence i argue , . they that have one baptism , have also one faith ; but infants had not one faith ; ergo they had not one baptism , and consequently are not to have it now . . one faith is placed before one baptism , therefore faith went before baptism in the apostles daies , and consequently infants were not baptized . . they that were counted of one body had one faith ; but infants had not one faith , therefore they were not counted of one body , that is church-members , mr. bs. words p. . confirm this ephes. . . as the whole church is one body , and hath one lord , and one faith , so hath it one common baptism , eph. . . that he might sanctify it , cleansing it with the washing of water by the word , whence mr. b plain script . proof , p. . inferres , the whole church of christ must in duty be washed with water . now i argue , . they who were washed with water , were cleansed with the washing of water by the word , which word is the word preached , as where mention is made of baptism , there mention is made of preaching of the word going before it , and [ the word ] doth no where signifie the covenant or promise of god taken precisely or abstractively from the narration of christs comming and invitation to repentance , but altogether as it was preached , as may be seen in peters speech , acts . , , , &c. but infants were not cleansed by the word ; therefore they were not cleansed by the washing of water . . the whole church was cleansed with the washing of water by the word ; but so were not infants ; therefore they were not parts of the church , and consequently are not now . col. . . buried with him in baptism , wherein ye have also been raised together through the faith of the operation of god who hath raised him from the dead . whence i argue . they who were buried with christ in baptism were also therein raised together through faith , and consequently were believers ; but infants were not in baptism raised together through faith ; therefore they were not buried with christ in baptism , that is , they were not baptized , and by consequence ought not to be . tit. . . is usually expounded of baptism , as by mr. b. pag. , so by many others . but if the washing there be meant of baptism , it is such as was with regeneration and receiving of the holy ghost ; therfore not of infants whose regeneration and receiving was unknown . heb. . , . where the foundation is mentioned , this order is observed , first repentance , then faith , then baptism , then laying on of hands , then resurrection of the dead , and lastly eternal judgement , now if the apostle kept a right order here used in teaching , and according to the event of things ( as he seems to have done ) then repentance and faith went before baptism : and so no infants baptized . pet. . . the baptism that saves is accompanyed with the answer of a good conscience towards god. this saith beza in his annot . on that text alludes to the custome of stipulating or promising at baptism by the baptised : which if right ( as is probable ) then it is manifest that the baptized did answer at baptism , which infants could not , and therefore were not baptized . sect . vi. mr. blakes exception against the major , that such institution or example as i require for infant-baptism is unnecessary , is refelled . against these arguments ( chiefly the two first ) brought to prove that infants are not to be baptized , according to the institution matth. . . and the practise of the apostles ( besides what is alleged and refuted already ) many things are alleged . mr. blake vindic. foederis page . construes the objection , that infant-baptism wants an institution , as if the meaning were that it wants an institution with limit to infant age , and then talks thus at randum , this objection , if it have force in it , followed home , will overthrow all baptism at any age , and every other new testament ordinance whatsoever : for according to this rule a person must bring a precept for one of his age to be baptized . but this is m. blakes mistake of the objection ; for in it an institution is not required with limit to infant age , but such an institution as comprehends by any description ordinarily infant age . but then , saith he , upon the same account church-members in covenant of any age ought to be baptized , and so the institution is not in question ( about that there is an agreement ) but whether infants be in covenant , whether they be any church-members , is to be disputed , which already is satisfied . answ. it is false which he faith that there is an agreement about the institution , i deny that the institution is , baptize persons in covenant , except he mean persons in covenant by their own profession and promise , or that it is all one to baptize disciples and to baptize persons to whom god hath promised , or covenanted christ : for then the jews yet uncalled should be baptized , to whom gods covenant is , romans . . it is false also that upon the same account upon which the institution of baptism with limit to infancy is waved , church-members in covenant of any age ( in mr. blakes sense ) ought to be baptized , and that the question is only whether infants be in covenant , whether they be any members . he knows well that i yield that infants are in the covenant of grace , in respect of gods promise to as many of them as are elect , whether believers children or not , and that i grant that many of them are members of the invisible church ; yea he himself in his . chap. of vindic. foederis sect . . had disputed against my tenet , denying a connexion between the covenant and initial seal , and therefore this speech of his shews either his oscitancy , or his willingness to mislead . he then repeats his arguments in his birth privilege in the same words he then used to prove the institution to comprize infants , which were answered in my examen sect . . and my answer there vindicated in my postscript sect . , , . in answer to the chapter of mr. blakes answer to my letter . i will not here repeat what i then answered , but reply to what he excepts in his vindic. foederis pag. . where he doth not shew insufficiency in what i say apol. page . to answer his allegation of isaiah . . but saies he doubts not i abuse my memory . concerning which i yield it not unlikely my memory did fail me in that thing , of his alleging isaiah . . as an argument by it self . i hope this may satisfy mr. blake , and the reader , if he read the places in my writings here mentioned , may be satisfyed that it proves not any thing for mr. blakes purpose . likewise for what i answered in my postscript sect : . to his allegation of mat. . . & . . mark . . luke . , . he refers to mr. baxters book page . i shall refer the reader to my answer to mr. b. here . m. blake only adds , that the denyal that infants are within the verge of the commission , mat. . . involves the apostles and all that are imployed in their work in succession , in a contradiction . the nations are to be discipled : infants bear a part of the nation : and yet infants are in an incapacity wholly of it . see mr. cooks answer to the challenges of the anabaptists of stafford , pag. . i reply , mr. blakes words are so obscure ( as many of his speeches are ) that i understand not his meaning when he saith , the denyal that infants are within the verge of that commission matthew . . involves the apostles , and all that are imployed in their work in succession , in a contradiction , whether he mean thus , my denial involves the apostles in a contiadiction to their own sayings , or to christs words : either way understood , i discern not any truth or shew of truth in mr. blakes words . christs words are a command , and not an enunciation , and therefore there can be according to exact expression no contradiction to them ; and for any sayings of the apostles which should be involved in a contradiction by my denial , it is beyond any art of divination of mine to ghesse which and where they should be . and for his syllogism it is false , consisting of four terms , . the nations , . to be disciples , . infants , . bear a part of the nation . if it were good i might from the parallel place mark . . argue in the same manner , every creature is to have the gospel preached to it ; infants bear a part of every creature , therefore to infants the apostles were to preach the gospel . nor is there any contradiction in these two propositions , the nations are to be discipled , and yet infants are in an incapacity of it , no more than in these , god hath granted repentance to the nations , acts . . yet not to infants , all nations and all people are exhorted to praise god , rom. . . in him shall the nations trust , verse . yet not an infant meant . the speeches are so plain acts . . declaring the conversion of the nations , verse . god made choice among us , that the nations by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe , verse . simeon hath declared how god at the first did visit the nations to take out of them a people for his name , verse . that the residue of men might seek after the lord , and all the nations upon whom my name is called , verse . wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them which from among the nations are turned to god. acts . . as touching the nations ( for the word translated gentiles and nations is the same in all these places ) which believe , we have writen , and yet in no one of these places are infants meant under the term [ nations ] and when our lord christ expresseth what he said matthew . . disciple all nations , by the words preach the gospel to every creature , mark. . . as the comparing the texts shews , and interpreters confess ; i know not how to conceive with what spirit mr. blake is moved , who doth so often seek to impose his stale all egations so often and so plainly refuted . will any man conceive that christ bid them preach to infants , and yet his bidding them to disciple all nations is as much as to bid them go preach to all nations ? if men do swallow down such fancies , i can hardly judge but that they are willing to be deceived . in mr. cookes book in the place to which he refers me , i find no more then in mr. blakes , and therefore need give no other answer than what is given to him . but mr. blake addes . for that part of the objection , that there is no example in the new testament scripture of infant-baptism , i answer , first , for an example of baptism with limit to any one precise number of years or daies , we have but one that i know ( if that ) in scripture , and that is of christ , who was ( as is computed ) about the age of thirty when he was baptized , if this be prest and followed all must at that alone be for baptism , and no other of any age may be baptized . mr. t. had many years above thirty over his head , when i heard him say , that he was satisfyed , that though an infant ought not to be baptized , yet being baptized in infancy , when in years he did make profession of the gospel this was valid , which he spake in justification of his own baptism ; though now ( as errour is creeping ) of an antipaedobaptist he is grown up to an anabaptist , and is rebaptized , and in his praecursor glories in his shame of rebaptizing others . answ. the objection as by me framed doth not intimate a pleading the necessity of an example with limit to any one precise number of years or daies , as a rule to be followed in baptism , but rests in the institution and examples in the new testament as sufficient to direct whom to baptize , to wit disciples , repenting believers in christ by profession , whatever be their age , nor did mr. bl. ever hear me press christs age as the exact rule for the time in which christians should be baptized ; and therefore did not mr. bl. take occasion to vent his jerks and quips ( in which he is frequent ) he had forborn to recite my speech in that manner he doth . concerning which i do not think i did then expresse my self , to wit in the year . ( for sure it was in that year that i spake with m. blake now above nine years since ) in the very words he sets down ; i do rather conceive by the words in my exercit. pag. . composed about that time , that i spake more cautelously . but had i said it , it only shews i received light by degrees , as in all reformations it hath been . neither am i an anabaptist , nor do i rebaptize , and though i glory not in any thing of mine , yet count it not my shame , but my honour , that god hath used me as an instrument to reform the superstitious opinion and prophane practice of infant-baptism , or rather ( as now it is used ) sprinkling or perfusion , and do bless god with rejoicing , that amidst so many temptations , reproaches and other sufferings , my heart hath been obedient to christs command of being baptized , and baptizing , though to his own shame , he makes it my shame that i have done my duty in this particular . mr. blake adds . there are many things of which we make no question , and yet we have no example of them . i instanced in the tryal of the suspected wife by the water of jealousie , there is no example for it in all the old testament scripture ; and for womens receiving the lords supper , there is not a particular institution , or any particular precedent for it in the new testament : see further instances in mr. cooks treatise before mentioned , page . they cannot give us any instance of any one trayned up by believing parents for baptism , and assoon as he could give an account baptized , not one child of a believer brought up for covenant and not in covenant . answ. i may say also there are many things of which we make no question , and yet we have no example of them : it is enough if either precept or example approved could be brought of infant-baptism . of the tryal by the water of jealousie there was no need of example to direct , when the rule was so plain . mr. cooks instances are to no more purpose than mr. blakes , being brought against them who deny proof by consequence , which i do not . their need be no example brought according to my principles of a believers child catechized first and baptized after , it is enough to us that such a one is comprehended in the institution being a disciple , christ never requiring us to enquire whose children they are , but what is their faith and profession , and to baptize disciples and believers in him . if mr. blake mean [ by being brought up for covenant ] to be taught the knowledge of the true god , ishmael the child of a believer was brought up for covenant and not in covenant . of womens , who are christian believers or disciples , receiving the lords supper , my speech examen pag. . was right , there is institution and example of it in the new testament , and this is justified in my postscript s. . but mr. blake hath a fling at my instances , though his fellow paedobaptists count them very plain , he is minded it seems to be ad oppositum to me in all i say in this argument . the particular command for womens receiving the lords supper i said was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. . . let a man examine himself , and so let him eate , this saies mr. coleman is as cleer for women as men ; but then , saith mr. blake john . . is moses his command , the jewes practice with christs approbation , in the same comprehensive latitude in regard of both sexes , as in saint paul for receiving the sacrament of the lords supper . i answered , true , if the subject matter did not limit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the male john . . it being a relation of the jews practice , which was only to circumcise the male , which it doth not cor. . . but then saith mr. blake , my express formal command is lost , they are not expressed but included only , and by consequence , which will not be denied either to mr. coleman , or mr. blake . answ. this is enough for me which he grants , that women are included in that precept cor. . . though by consequence only , for then there is institution in the new testament for their receiving the lords supper , and therefore this objection of mr. blake and others against my requiring either precept or example of infant-baptism in the new testament in express terms or by good consequence , by requiring me to shew a like precept or example for womens receiving the lords supper , is answered by his own grant , that there is such a precept for womens receiving the lords supper , as i deny to be for infant-baptism . yet i still say it is more than by consequence , even an express precept in formal terms for womens receiving the lords supper , which is cor. . . for i take that to be an express command in formal terms , which is in the imperative mood , and in a word that according to grammar construction comprehends both men and women , there being no circumstance restraining it to the male . and in this sense mr. m. saith truly in his sermon pag. . express command there is that they should teach the heathen and the jews , and make them disciples , and then baptize them , though jews are only comprized under the general term [ all nations . ] mr. blake goes on . he further saith , that cor. . . is an express example in formal terms of womens receiving the lords supper ; we being many are one bread and one body , for we are partakers of one bread . i demand of mr. t. whether the apostle speaks in the person of christians or in the person of women ? not of women sure , for he takes in himself , and he was a man , and then the formality of an express example falls . when it is said that the whole house of israel is circumcised in the flesh , mr. t : will not yield that there is a proof , not by any consequence , that women , though of the house of israel were virtually circumcised : but all partaking of one bread , there is a proof formal and express that they were at the lords supper . answ. an expresse formal example is mentioned cor. . . of womens receiving the lords supper , there being relation of partaking the bread in the indicative mood , and the term [ we all ] according to grammar construction the matter not excluding them comprehending women as well as men . for the apostle under [ all we ] expresly comprehends all the many that were one bread and one body , who are all christians both jewes and gentiles , cor. . . mr. blakes demand makes a disjunction of members coincident , which is illogical ; however to it as it is i say the apostle speaks in his own person , not in anothers , yet he speaks of the persons of all christians both men and women , and he takes in as expresly the women as the men , and the formality of the example is of one as well as the other . as for the other passage alleged by mr. blake the predicate [ circumcised in the flesh ] being necessarily understood of actual circumcision , there is a necessity to understand the subject [ the whole house of israel ] synecdochically , else the speech would not be true . but tropes are not to be made but where there is a necessity to make good the speech , or to make it agree with the scope , circumstances and other expressions : of which there is no necessity cor. . . to verify the speech of the apostle , but that it is true of women as well as men , and must be so understood without a trope , and therefore there the speech is to be expounded according to the plain grammatical meaning as expressed formally without the like trope . mr. blake saith of me . he brings acts . . that the disciples on the first day of the week came together to break bread . here is an example as express and formal . mr. t. cannot infallibly prove by help of consequence much less expressly that there was a woman there . at that night meeting there might be none but men , as at the first institution . it can never be an express example till it be made appear that none are disciples but women . answ. i had thought when it is said , it is appointed unto men once to dy , heb. . . death passed upon all men , in that all have sinned , rom. . . it had been express and formal for womens and infants dying though there be other men than women and infants , and yet in both places [ men ] in greek is in the masculine gender , [ disciples ] in the acts note all christians acts . . tabitha is named a disciple acts . . and therefore there being no reason to make a trope acts . . in the word [ disciples ] christian women as well as men are comprehended . and by breaking bread , say the assembly at westminster answer to the reasons of the dissenting brethren page . sacramental breaking of bread is understood generally by all , acts . . the like is said by chamier panst. cathol . tom . . l. . c. . s. . and it is confirmed , . from the text , the words importing that the breaking of bread is there meant which was the end of their customary meeting on the lords day ; but this was sacramental , ergo. . from cor. . , . where the lords supper is called breaking bread as the usual known term among christians . this seems to me infallible proof , that women were there , or which is to my purpose , that usually they did meet with other disciples to break break . as for what mr. bl. addes , that if i had the texts in hand of a whole houshold baptized , they would be sufficiently formal for infant-baptism , i tell him no : for i could not have withstood the clear light to the contrary , from the words acts . & . and elsewhere , which limit the whole house to persons that did hear the word , believe , receive , fear god , &c. ampsing . dialog . contra anabap. page . idem quoque vobis responsum volumus ad loca illa , act. . . cor. . . tit. . . ubi quaedam de totis familiis enunciantur , quae non nisi de adultis accipi possunt . it is false that the commission matthew . . is to baptize nations , but disciples in or out of nations , as is proved above . providence hath not ordered that nations including infants have been brought into the church as christ appointed , to wit by preaching the gospel : but the national churches are gathered ( otherwise than christ appointed ) by human laws and infant-baptism . i value as much the churches practice as ever , but it is false that in no controverted thing the church is found so unanimous as in this of infant-baptism . it is more unanimous about episcopacy prelatical , use of the sign of the cross , and many other things , as may be seen in mr. sprint of conformity pag. . &c. i shall in convenient time i hope shew the mistakes of paedobaptists plea for infant-baptism from antiquity . the other speech of mr. blake , that which will speak for infants to receive them into heaven , will speak also to receive them into the church by baptism , is not true . for election , the covenant of grace , a secret work of an initial , habitual , seminal or actual holiness or faith , being supposed , may speak to receive them into heaven , yet not to baptism , nor doth it follow that if want of faith exclude them from baptism , then by the text mark . . the same want of faith excludes from salvation . for ( as i answer in my praecursor s. . ) a want of faith dogmatical excludes from baptism , and yet excludes not infants from salvation . sect . vii . mr. ms. exceptions , that matthew . . is not the institution of baptism , that onely disciples are not appointed to be baptized , that this was a rule only for a church to be constituted , are refelled . there are many other exceptions against the argument from the institution matth. . . to be considered . mr. m. in his sermon page . saith , . that of matth . . is not the institution of baptism . . it was instituted long before to be the seal of the covenant . . it s only an inlargement of their commission . to which in my examen i said , . if this be not the first institution , yet it is an institution , and the institution of baptism to us gentiles , and therefore the rule by which ministers are to baptize , there being no other institution that i know of to regulate our practice by , but such as is gathered from john baptist , the apostles , and some preachers in the acts of the apostles , their practice and sayings . . by requiring him to shew another institution , else paedobaptism cannot be acquitted from will-worship . to this m. m. defence page . having referred me to part . s. . where he saith , all this is abundantly answered , saith , this inlargement of their commission is very un●itly called by me an institution of baptism to us , their commission at the same time was inlarged to preach to the gentiles , will you call that an institution of preaching ? and that the method of preaching to us gentiles must be fetch out of this place ? i know you will not . refut . . by institution i conceive is meant no other than commanding , ordaining , appointing , and i find the words used as equipollent so promiscuously in the assemblies confession of faith chap. ▪ , . in the larger and shorter catechism , in the directory about baptism , that sure mr. m. was either very forgetful of what past in the assembly , or very much disposed to cavil when he excepted against my speech as un fit , in calling mat. . . the institution of baptism . the assembly confess of faith ch . . art . . call it the word of institution , chap. . art . . allegeth no other text to prove the ordaining and appointment of baptism by christ , but mat. . , . mr. b. calls it page . the solemn institution of baptism , yea in the disputes with papists and others about the author , minister , form , use of baptism , it is so common a thing to call this the institution of baptism , yea the regulating institution , the words therein are called the words of institution even in the directory , that i admire mr. m. should put in this exception had he not a mind to wrangle or to find a knot in a bulrush . i will recite chamiers words , panstr . cath. tom . . l. . c. . s. . dico hanc ipsam formam baptizandi in nomine patris & filii & spiritus sancti & solam esse & optimam constare ex evangelio : ubi nimirum institutionis est descriptio . nam quis ignor at quaecunque instituuntur à christo non tantum optimè institui , sed etiam sic , ut non debeant aliter . but he tells me he knows i will not call that matthew . . an institution of preaching , nor affirm that the method of preaching is to be fetcht out of this place . to which i reply , he is deceived , i do call it an institution of preaching , and therein follow his collegue mr. rutherford due right of presbyteries pag. . that which we allege is an institution for preaching and baptizing , matthew . , . and before him pareus in his comment . who intitles this part of the chapter , institutio ministerii , and from hence with the generality of divines fetch the method of preaching . but saith he , this was only an inlargement of their commission . answ. i find that the apostles had commission to preach , mat. . . and that they did baptize , john . . which i doubt not they had commission for : but be it so , yet however mat. . . they had their commission inlarged in the extent of the persons to whom they were to preach and baptize , and this commission is an institution of those works : so that frivolously it is denyed to be an institution because it was an inlarged commission , when the enlarged commission was all one with a renewed institution , and must needs be a rule about preaching to , and baptizing of gentiles , and therefore the institution of baptism to them . but it was instituted long before to be a seal of the covenant . answ. i deny not but john baptist was appointed to baptize by god mat. . . john . . and the apostles by christ : but where there is any institution of baptism so expressed as to regulate our practise afore that mat. . . i find not , and therefore know no solemn institution by which we are to be guided in the use of it afore this . but it was long before instituted to be the seal of the covenant : for this he refers us to that which he had said before . answ. what ambiguity , uncertainty , and falsity there is in paedobaptists speeches about the covenant , being in covenant , seal of the covenant , connexion between the covenant and seal , will be shewed in that which followes . for present i know no place assigned by mr. m. in his defence part . : s. . wherein he shews that baptism was institu●ed long before the time of the speech mat. . . to be the seal of the covenant . i have read over that section , and do aver that i find it so empty of any either proofs or answers to my examer , that his words in my apprehension are meer trifling . if it be thought i wrong a man of such repute , let any man shew me a word in all that section ( in which he saith he hath answered all this abundantly ) in answer to what i say that matthew . is the institution of baptism to us gentiles , and the rule by which ministers are to baptize , and that there is no other institution , and i will forfeit my credit . he neither in all that section , nor elsewhere , that i know , shews either any other or foregoing institution of baptism to us gentiles , or any other but this with john baptists , the apostles , and some forenamed their practice and sayings for a rule of baptizing : onely p. . he dictates thus . sir , since it is apparent that here is no new commission for any new method in their work , but only an enlargement of their commission to apply their ministery to new persons , how could they understand our saviours meaning to proceed any other way to the gentiles than among the jews ? &c. but to whom is it apparent ? and when , either sleeping or waking ? where is the old commission that we must understand this by , so as to proceed the way to the gentiles that was taken among the jewes ? is it the commission of circumcising gen. ? if that be it , then baptism is not a sacrament of the new testament onely but of the old , then it is not a new administration , then the commission of baptizing is to any parent , though no minister , to baptize , then it must be done the eighth day , to males only ; were christs words thus to be understood they had been a meer riddle : where or whence it is apparent that ever the apostles conceived that in executing the commission mat. . . they were to proceed according to the commission about circumcising ? i have shewed examen part . ▪ sect . . that it rather follows to the contrary that they did and were to proceed clean otherwise . and therefore that the apostles should understand the institution mat. . . by the institution of circumcision gen. . is so wild a conceit , that i cannot impu●e it to any thing but meer dotage in the assertor , there being no one word in the commission or the executing of it throughout the acts of the apostles that doth shew that christ had reference to it , or the apostles so understood him . yea if that of circumcision gent. . be an institution of baptism , by like reason that of the passeover exod. . must be an institution of the lords supper , and then the lords supper should be instituted afore the night in which christ was betrayed , and the lords supper should be from moses , and regulated by the ordinances of the ceremoni●l law &c. if mr. m. mean by the foregoing institutution the manner of the jewish doctors in baptizing proselytes children with the parents , it shall be shewed hereafter , especially in answer to dr. hammond , that there is nothing therein for infant-baptism now , it being done to no jewes or their infants many ages before christs incarnation , and therefore not out of respect to the covenant gen. . nor as a privilege from thence , but meerly as a rite to purge them from the uncleanness of gentilism , nor ever done to the infant posterity of the proselytes of righteousness after the first time of being made proselytes , nor ever used to proselytes of the gate . and yet had the use been such as that infants of proselytes after their first en●rance on the jewish profession had been baptized , yet there is no commission in scripture for it , though rabbins would fetch it , some from gen. . . some from exod. . . some from the flood , nor is there any thing in the institution of christ , or acts and sayings of the apostles , that shews that christian baptism was conformed to the jewish baptism in this , and therefore i conclude , that there is no other institution besides mat. . . mark . , . together with the apostles , john baptists , and others forenamed sayings and practice , that is a rule to us about baptizing , and if infant-baptism be not here appointed , it is besides the institution , and so irregular . but mr. m. allegeth further , that it is not said that only disciples are to be baptized . to which i replyed examen page . it is not said cor. . . let him only eat that can examine himself , nor here only preachers in office are to baptize , nor only two to be one flesh , nor let only wine be drunk in the euchurist , or water used in baptism , yet divines make these speeches exclusive . m. ball of the covenant par . . c. . p. . when difference or distinction is contained in some term , the proposition is for sense exclusive no less than if it were expressly noted . against this mr. m. excepts defence pag. . that the practice and example of christ and john is sufficient to make a positive rule affirmative but not exclusive , and the reason is plain , they possibly might not meet with all persons and occasions , as though no proselyte of the gate were baptized till acts . nor any till they made actual confession of their faith and repentance , nor any rule given that the receiving the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost should without any other confession be a sufficient warrant to baptize any , yet peter upon the very pouring out of those gifts , without requiring any further confession either of faith or repentance , baptized cornelius and all his company . ref. . m. ms. confessions are to be noted , that none till they made actual confession of their faith and repentance were baptized till acts . nor any rule given that the receiving the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost should without any other confession be a sufficient warant to baptize any , which do grant that till then there was neither rule nor practice of baptising any without actual confession of their faith and repentance , which is in effect a grant of the minor , in my argument , denying any institution or practice in the new testament of infant-baptism , for there is no other rule or practice of infant-baptism after acts . otherwise than that before . . it is to be observed , that mr. m. deals not rightly with me in that he makes me to have framed the exclusive rule from practice , whereas i joined institution with practice , and shewed neither to be for infant-baptism . . if the non-including of persons or things in the institution or practise of baptism be not exclusive , then the institution is not our rule , then there is no will-worship , or it is no sin to swerve from it , we may add to gods worship infant-communion , and innumerable other things rejected may be lawful , then do preachers , especially mr. m. unjustly urge the parliament , and others , to reform invented ceremonies , and protestants contend against popish rites in baptism , mass , &c. . however mr. m. conceive , yet men abler than mr. m. do frequently assert negative arguments from institution . i will name one who hath few fellowes , chamier panst. cath . in the words lately by me here recited , and tom . . l. . c. . s. . haec testimonia sunt institutionis : quae etsi non prohibent toridem verbis alios liquores : tamen eo ipso quod non ponat excludit . l. . c. . s. . quamquam in hoc genere rerum quae nihil sunt nisi ex institutione validissimam esse aportet argumentationem negativam si inde sumatur . but mr. m. saith , john the baptist and the apostles might not meet with all persons and occasions . answ. t is true , they baptized no emperours or kings , because none were converted , yet they had a rule to baptize them if disciples : but this could not be the reason of their not baptizing infants , sith innumerable believers had infants in the times of the gospel story , and acts of the apostles , and yet no mention of baptizingany . do not mr. m. and other paedobaptists plead that the little children brought to christ were infants of believers , and yet there 's not a word of their being baptized ? as for mr. ms. instance to prove no necessity of practice to warrant infant-baptism , though i grant if there were institution without practice it were enough , yet is it not rightly brought . it supposeth peter baptized cornelius and his houshold upon the very powring out of extraordinary gifts , without actual faith and repentance required ; and i grant he required them not : but yet withal it is manifest he did not baptize meerly upon the powring out of extraordinary gifts without them . for the text acts . , . expresly saith , they magnified god , ere he spake of their baptizing , and acts . . that they had the like gift as themselves who believed on the lord jesus , and they gathered thence that the gentiles had repentance unto life granted by god. but it is objected by mr. cobbet , just vindic. part . cha . . sect . . that mark . . none but true believers are meant , then if the term be exclusive none but such are to be baptized . . that those believers had signs following them , verse . answ. the rule is , disciples by profession are to be baptized , to which is equipollent [ believers by profession ] i say not that believers only who are such as those mark . . are to be baptized by us : but yet comparing mark . , . with mat. . . i gather that a disciple and believer are terms equipollent , and so it helps me to understand the term [ disciple ] as answerable to the term [ believer ] and though by reason of the matter predicated mark . . the believer there is only a true believer , yet the term often is given to believers only by profession , and we find such warrantably baptized , and that is enough for our direction : though we are to require more , yet we are not to forbear baptism till we know there is more . we acknowledge only true believers have right before god to baptism : but in the face of the church believers by profession have right to baptism , and are to be taken by us for true believers upon their profession , till they be discovered to be otherwise . as for verse . it doth not say these or some of these signs shall follow every of them that believe : but they are true if they followed some of them that believe , sith the terms being indefinite in matter contingent , the proposition is true if onely particular . indefinita propositio in materia contingenti aequipollet particulari , say logicians . but there is an objection ad hominem against my self , that i have said that if i knew an infant were actually sanctified , &c. i would baptize him , if so , then an infant is not excluded out of the institution . answ. i grant that an infant barely as an infant is not excluded out of the institution , but as ordinarily not known to be a disciple or believer . if an infant were known to be a disciple or believer , i would baptize him , as i would one who having his tongue cut out who is known to be a believer otherwaies . but then i have added that this would be upon extraordinary manifestation onely , and so not according to ordinary rule , and therefore justifies onely that extraordinary fact , not the ordinary practice of infant-baptism , which hath no rule ordinary or extraordinary . but then saith mr. m. page . shew us your extraordinary ●ule . answ. when i do thus , or challenge this , i shall : in the mean time it is enough that my concession doth not infringe my argument against baptizing infants ordinarily without ordinary rule . mr. m. hath yet another exception in his sermon , page . that no other are mentioned to be baptized but disciples , or believers , because a new church was to be constituted , and then all were to be baptized upon profession of faith , after the children came in by their right by vertue of the covenant . ref. . when i come to examine mr. ms. conclusions i shall shew , that there is no such covenant as to give right to believers infants to be baptized ; yea that title to the covenant did not give right to circumcision , and therefore this is a vain pretence . . he assigns that for a reason why no other were baptized , which was not a reason : for in the jewish church which was already constituted , and which christ did join himself to , and to whose children they say did belong the covenant , yet while other were baptized all the time of john and christs ministery on earth , no one infant was appointed to be baptized , no not those infants mark . which christ blessed , and which were ( if paedobaptists say true ) believers infants in covenant . . it is a vain pretence , that there is no mention of baptized infants ; because they had no right till their parents were converted : for neither when they were converted is there any mention of the infants baptism . . the institution mat. . . expounded by the practice of john baptist &c. is the standing rule for churches at first planting , and after increasings , nor can any other rule be produced distinct from this , and therefore neither at first conversion , nor after settlement of churches , are any to be baptized according to ordinary rule till they be disciples of christ , or believers by profession . sect . viii . the exceptions of mr. cobbet , mr. blake , &c. against the order of teaching afore baptizing , of mr. m. mr. hussey , that baptizing is discipling , are refelled . against the argument from the order of teaching first and then baptizing , it was excepted that it is said mark . . john did baptize and preach , which objection in my examen was removed by the words of beza par . . s. . to which i add , that the reason is manifest from the text why the one was put after the other , not because he did baptize any afore he had preached , but because mark having expressed his baptism , it was needfulhe should shew the difference between johns baptism and the jewish or phasaical baptism . to this mr. m. returns thus much . christs order is ( say you ) teaching should go before baptizing ; is not that the same with this ; that men must be made disciples by preaching before they be baptized ? to which i only say , . that the arguments are not the same as i made them , the first being taken from the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them ] the other from the order of teaching afore baptizing . . however i take that which mr. m. grants , that it is the same to teach , and to make disciples by preaching before baptizing . but mr. cobbet just vindic . part . ch . . sect . : allegeth something against this argument . he grants some things in this order of christ are perpetual , but he will not have all to be presidentiall to all churches and times , because it is said mar. . . in the same speech , that miraculous signs should follow them that believe . but if this were good , then the rule should only hold while such gifts remain , which no churches now have , and so he must fall into the opinion that makes water-baptism a temporary ordinance , and those things which he grants perpetual , as viz. preaching the gospel before baptism is to be administred by such as preach , discipled inchurched persons are to be baptized , that in founding churches the first members are to be visible professors of the faith in reference to church estate , that baptism is with water applyed to the persons baptized , and that into the name of the father , son and holy ghost , must be temporary as well as teaching before baptizing : if the one be perpetual notwithstanding this reason so is the other , and presidential to all churches and times . but saith mr. cobbet , there is a distinction to be made in baptizing at the gathering of churches , and when they are gathered : the order must be observed at the former , not the later . answ. . if it was to be so at first gathering of churches , why did not those in new england observe it then when they first gathered their churches ? surely they were not rightly gathered for want of baptism if this be the rule at gathering of churches . nor can they plead their baptism they had in the national and parochial churches of england ; for by their principles , baptism belongs to the children of believers , not as such , but as in church-covenant , and church-members , and therefore they baptize not any but the children of church-members in covenant , and yet most of them had their baptism in the churches of england , and their parents no church-members and so neither they nor others that gather churches in old england do keep to their principles in the gathering of their churches . . but besides what i said before to this objection , mat. . . there is no such distinction made , and we are not to distinguish where the law doth not , yea all the institution , and every thing in it was to be observed in the churches of christ in gathering and gathered at all times , as is manifest from the promise annexed of being with them alwaies to the end of the world , which shewes that he would have that rule continued to the end of the world , and to encourage them therein he promiseth to be with them . to say with mr. s●ltmarsh in his sparkles of glory and some others , it is to be read [ to the end of the age ] is frivolous , sith matthew . ▪ , . matth. . . the very words shew it to be meant of the last time at christs comming to judgement . but ( saith mr. cobbet ) the commission james . . to an●oint with oil , is not perpetual . be it so , that that appointment of the sign of a gift of miraculous cure now ceaseth , yet it doth not follow that the institution mat. . . in which a sign of a perpetual duty is institu●ed , is temporary . but saith mr. cobbet , there are variations in the mention of christs last commission about the lords supper , and therefore another analogy of faith and comparing scriptures with scriptures is to regulate us in this point of sacramental order , and so in the other . to which i answer , . that the variations mr. cobbet sets down are none of them about the order of the actions appointed by christ pertaining to the sacrament of the lords supper , and therefore not pertinent to the presen : business . . if mr. cobbet will not have the order in the institution to be moral and perpetual about the lords supper , then they do ill in his judgement that contend against papists , prelates and others to have the lords supper reduced exactly to the first pattern as a constant rule , there being such variations as disable it from being a rule . . i grant that analogy of faith and comparing scriptures with scriptures is to regulate us in this point of sacramental order : but till mr. cobbet shew that in any other scripture or analogy of faith there is a rule that persons should be baptized afore they be taught , his reasoning is , not to the present purpose . but then saith he , if order must be observed so strictly , baptizing must go before salvation , mark . . repentance may be before faith , mark . . confession before faith , romans . . if the place in mark must be so closely stuck to without comparing it with the scriptures of the old testament , then we must preach the gospel to dogs , cats , &c. since it is expresly said preach the gospel to every creature . answ. . that if it follow not that every thing set before is first in order of time or nature , yet what is first appointed to be done in the solemn institution of sacraments , is to be done first , as taking , blessing , breaking bread , before eating , so teaching the baptized afore baptizing as the apostles practice shews , who best understood christs appointment . as believing upon preaching is to go before salvation , so baptizing ordinarily and regularly ( for which i now contend ) and yet in special cases as persons may be saved without personal actual believing upon preaching , so without baptism . to avoid the inference of preaching to beasts , we need not go to the old testament mat. . . ●ol . . . &c. yield sufficient light to shew , that by [ every creature ] is meant all nations of men , or gentiles , as well as jews . but ( saith mr. cobbet ) if it be absurd to say the gospel is preached to little ones , what shall we say of christs speech mat. . . deut. . . acts . , . luke . ? i answer , this may be said , that all these are frivolously alleged to prove that christ should appoint the gospel to be preached to infants ( which were to make christ as ridiculous as the legends do francis the fryer ) sith none of them mention any speech or preaching to little infants , though some of the speeches are of or concerning infants . as for what he further adds , it was no absurdity that infants were circumcised , christ laid his hands on infants , peters feet were washed , though these acts were not then understood . i grant it , and say , if christ appointed infants to be baptized , i should not count it an absurdity , but sith his express institution is , that teaching should go before baptizing , till that order be shewed to be alte●ed , it is a prophane abuse of the ordinance of baptism to baptize those who are not taught . mr. blake vindic. foederis page . speaks thus , this is the weakest of all arguments , to reason for a precedency of one before another from the order in which they are placed in scripture , so we may say john baptized before he preached the baptism of repentance , for his baptizing is mentioned before preaching of baptism mark . . so we may say we must have glory first and vertue after , for so they are placed by the apostle , peter . . answ. though in histories of facts sometimes things are s●t down last which were done first , yet in setting down institutions , order and every circumstance is observed , so as thence to conclude it irregular not to observe the order used in the primitive institution , cor. . . the cup of blessing is mentioned before the bread we break , and yet it would be counted a disorder and sinful to administer the wine before the bread , because in the mention of the institution the three evangelists and paul observe exactly the order as well as the use of the elements , as delivered by the lord. in like manner when christ appoints , and the constant practice of the apostles expounds his words thus , that first persons be made disciples and believers , and then be baptized , sure it is an act of transgression of christs command to do it otherwise , especially considering that by so doing the prime and chief end of baptism , to wit , to signify the baptized persons engagement to repentance and faith in christ , is thereby evacuated . mr. blake●aith ●aith vindic. foederis pag. . god is a god of order , and he will have order observed , & p. god will not suffer that disorder that the leading sacrament should come after . i may more truly say , god will not suffer the disorder of mr. bl. to have baptism go before and faith follow , when by necessity of precept , as he speaks there , christ having instituted it and commanded it , discipleship and believing are put before baptism mat. . . mark . , . and the apostles so taught and practised acts . . . & . . & , . & . . & . , , . & . . glory is put before vertue peter . . without disorder , if either the meaning be as heinsius in his preface to his aristarchus sacer on nonnus conceives , he hath called us by his glorious power , or if the ordinary reading be retained , though vertue be before glory , yet we are called to glory first as the end , and then to vertue as the means , the end being first in intention , though last in execution . there is another exception which i counted in my examen p. . a very absurd one , and such as i presumed none that had any wit would entertain it , to wit that making disciples matth. . . is to be by baptizing them , and yet mr. m. in his defence pag. . goes about to maintain that the jewes children were discipled when circumcised , & pag. . that baptizing may be well rendred discipling , and allegeth spanheimius for it . mr. hussey vents it as very remarkable and advantagious to prove infant-baptism . but against this toy i argued in my examen page . . . no lexicon , nor i thought expositor do expound [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples ] that is circumcise or baptize them . . that the word plainly signifies so to teach as that the persons taught do learn and accordingly professe the things taught . to this mr. m. replies , . that better criticks than my self say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a rabbinick phrase , and from their use of it it is best to be understood , and that with them it signifies to admit scholars , not because they were taught , but that they might be taught . answ. but mr. m. neither names the criticks , no● brings proof for what they say , nor if it were all granted would serve his purpose to prove that ever [ disciple ye ] is as much as [ circumcise ye , baptize ye ] i grant there is great use to be made of the talmuds and rabbins in expounding many passages in the new testament , but in expounding this term there is no need of using them , when the use of it in other places , and comparing it with other scriptures are sufficient to cleer it , yet if mr. ms. criticks look over all the talmuds and rabbins i presume they will not find one passage wherein the making of a disciple or admitting of a scholar was ever applyed to an infant . and though mr. hussey ridiculously tell us of taking children to school , and counting them for scholars , who carry a hornbook to school , though they be put there only to play and keep them from harm , yet neither do any so admit as scholars infants of a day or eight days old , nor is [ a scholar ] all one with [ a disciple ] the latter word being from learning , the other from vacation from other imployment that he may learn , nor is making a disciple all one with admitting a scholar . rightly saith becman : exercit. th●ol . . pag. ● . verbum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( quod omnes libenter admittunt ) ex nativa origine est discipulos facere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . atqui hoc ipsum non nisi accedente doctrina fit . qui enim discit tanquam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ab alio ●x ra●ione 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dicitur itaque discipuli sunt qui docentur & discunt . pag. . nec ulli discipuli sunt nisi qui docentur . dum igitur christus apostolos jubet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ante omnia & quidem de necessitate jubet docere . but . mr. m. refers me with a blind direction to spanheimius to consult with , which however i have done , as i find his words dub. evang. part . . dub . . and i say as in my apology page . besides the mention of his words there need no other refutation . for . it is false , that [ to make disciples ] signifies the end of their sending , and not the act they were to do , whereas it plainly notes the first act they were to do : and if it had been the end of the act of baptizing and teaching , it should have been thus [ baptize and teach them all things , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that ye may make all nations disciples . ] . spanheimius there makes [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples ] to answer to [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he maketh disciples , john . . ] but there it is another thing than baptizing , for making disciples and baptizing are knit together as two distinct things , and the making disciples there was by preaching , as the story of the evangelist shews , therefore making disciples matthew . . is by preaching , and is not barely baptizing . . his own words do refute the reason of his analysis . for he allegeth this reason , because if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should simply signify only to teach , there would be found a tautology in christs words thus ; go teach all nations , baptizing them , teaching them . but this absurdity is not avoided by his own exposition . for he himself saith , non significat solum docere , sed & discipulos facere , now if it signifie at all to teach the tautology is alike , if we say , go , not only teach , but also make disciples baptizing them , teaching them , for by his own words teaching is twice commanded . nevertheless in my exposition ( commonly received ) there is no tautology , go , make by teaching or preaching the gospel ( that jesus is the christ ) disciples , so as that they learn him to be the messias , and profess him , as mr. m. expounds john . . will ye be his disciples ? and then baptize them , and after teach them to observe all that i have commanded . so that here is a double teaching injoined , one to preach or teach them the gospel , that jesus is the christ , as philip did the eunuch , acts . , . and then baptize , and then teach duties commanded by christ. and for what spanheimus saith , that this may in its manner be ●i●ted to infants . for when parents do give their names to christ for themselves and their families , their whole house is discipled , their children as well as themselves , it is false . for then if a parent give his name to christ for himself and his family , and the whole house is discipled , thereby it will follow , that the wife , child , servant , though infidels , are discipled , and so in fidels should be christs disciples . but no where is in scripture any made a disciple but by his own act of learning . as for what mr. m. adds to shew that without teaching first , by initiating into a master a person may become a disciple , it is insufficient to that end . for cor. . . though all our fathers be said to be baptized into moses , yet not to be discipled , and the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was discipled , matth. . . doth not note a bare entring into christs school without teaching or hearing of christ , much less such an initiating as they give to infants without any act of their own , and john . . mr. m. himself paraphaseth thus , will ye be his disciples , will ye profess him ? which is an act of their own , of which infants are not ordinarily capable , and it supposeth some teaching and learning , at least this , that jesus is the christ. . i argued from mark . . to which our translators refer in the margin at matthew . . as cleering the meaning of it , and generally interpreters shew thence how they were appointed to make disciples , to wit , by preaching the gospel , and so mr. m. sermon page . express command there is that they should teach the heathen and the jews , and make them disciples , and then baptize them , and defence page . their commission was to preach and baptize , and hereupon from matth. . . is gathered , that none are to baptize but preachers . whence i argue , if the making disciples were to be by preaching the gospel to them who were made disciples , then by making disciples is not meant baptizing , nor baptizing to be rendered discipling , for baptizing and preaching the gospel are not all one ; but the making disciples is appointed to be and was by preaching the gospel to them who were made disciples ; ergo discipling is not by baptizing . . i argued from john . . in which it is confessed by the new annot. edit . . on mat. . . [ made disciples and baptized ] answer to [ make disciples baptizing them mat. . . ] now john . . making disciples is one thing , and baptizing is another thing , though coupled with it ; therefore the making disciples is not baptizing , but a distinct thing . . the commission of christ is to be understood according to the apostles practice , unless we will say that either they understood not , or followed not christs appointment ; but their practice was to make disciples first by preaching , and then to baptize , and no other mentioned , as mr. m. grants in his sermon page . ergo. i truly said , nor need mr. m. wonder at it , or call it a wild consequence , as he doth defence page . that if the apostles had understood christs commission as mr. m. doth , baptize according to the rule of circumcising , they might have saved a great deal of labour in preaching to the baptized afore they baptized them , and in baptizing females , sith the rule of circumcising did not require either . and though i grant it to be true , that male and female are all one , yet in the rule of circumcising a difference is made , and if that be the rule of baptizing infants , then in baptizing them male infants should be baptized and not female . . if making disciples be by baptizing without preaching before to the baptized , then non-preaching ministers may and do baptize rightly though they preach not the gospel ; but this i suppose will be denyed by mr. m. ergo. . if making disciples be by baptizing without preaching to them , then the spaniards in america who drove the indians into the water to be baptized , without teaching them or preaching the gospel to them , did rightly , for they followed christs rule thus expounded ; but that is absurd ; ergo. . mr. m. and other paedobaptists say that the commission mat. . . was the commission for first constituting the churches of the gentiles : if then the cōmission be to be understood , make ye disciples by baptizing them , without first preaching to them , then he had appointed them to constitute or plant the first churches without preaching , and then the apostles gifts of tongues &c. were unnecessary , they might have constituted churches by hands , baptizing them only without the use of those gifts ; but these things are absurd , besides other absurd consequences which follow on the exposition that discipling is baptizing , or baptizing discipling , mat. . . lastly many of their own grants and expositions before recited do so cross this conceit , that as i said before , i thought none that had any wit would embrace it , so now i wonder that such men as have taken it up did not better make use of their wit , to decline so witlesse a shift . onely i perceive any thing will erve turn to keep up the credit of infant sprinkling . sect . ix . the exception of mr. m. mr. blake , mr. cobbet , nations are appointed to be baptized matthew . . and so infants , is refelled . but there is yet another exception against my argument from matthew . . followed by many , that christ bids them make nations disciples and baptize nations , & consequently infants at least the species . against this i opposed , that all nations simply are not appointed to be baptized , but disciples of all nations . so beza annot . on matthew . . make to me disciples out of all nations . the new annotations on the bible on matth. . . first edition , teach ] gr. make disciples of , as john . . all nations , not jews alone but gentiles also , acts . , , . mr. baxter plain scripture proof &c. pag. . when christ saith [ make me disciples of all nations baptizing them ] he means [ sincere disciples ] georg. pasor lexic . ad verbum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matthew . verse . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , docete omnes gentes , h. ● . colligite mihi discipulos ex omnibus gentibus . mr. blake himself saith , answer to my letter ch . . sect . . he is ready to subscribe to this interpretation as i lay it down in words by preaching the gospel to all nations make them disciples , and baptize those that do become disciples of all nations . as for his exceptions , that the verb is transitive , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nations is in the accusative case , that it is boldness to put it into the genitive , that then the whole of the nation should not be appointed to be baptized , and so not infants , i have answered them in my postscript sect . . and i further prove that the nation entirely is not appointed to be baptized . . for then the infidels of the nation should be to be baptized , for they are a part of the nation . . then the apostles were not to baptize regularly till they baptized a whole nation , yea all nations together , for so it is construed by them who make nations entirely the subject of baptism according to christs institution . . the apostles practice is an infallible comment on our lord christs words . as they practised , so christ meant ; but they baptized not any entire nation , countrey , city , or tribe , but believers or disciples out of them ; therefore no other were appointed to be baptized . . if the baptizing of all the parts of a nation , or a nation entirely , were appointed by christ , then there might be some rule to know when a nation is discipled , chosen , so as that it ought to be entirely baptized ; but there is no such rule , ergo. to none of these do i find any thing replyed by mr. m. but by telling me i fall to my old artifice of framing many senses ( which yet in this point were but two ) for which he blames me , as if it were blameable : whereas it is the only way to cleer truth to shew the divers senses of a speech , for avoiding of ambiguity , according to that saying , qui benè distinguit benè docet , he that distinguisheth well teacheth well , and his not distinctly answering by shewing in what sense his speech is meant tends to nothing but the hiding of truth . then he tells me , that i vent my criticisms , and undertake to shew that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to teach cum effectu ▪ or to teach till they were made scholars ( my word was disciples ) and that they were not to baptize till they were disciples , and then saith , but sir , what need all these things ? the meaning is plain that other nations should be taken in likewise as the jewes according to isaiah . . when other nations should by receiving and professing the gospel come under gods wing , they should partake of the same covenant which the jews had before enjoyed , he would henceforth be the god of them and their seed . whereto i reply , . that in his upbraiding me with venting my criticisms , as he calls them , about the word [ disciple ye ] he excepts against me for doing that which was necessary to be done , to wit , to cleer the meaning of the word , by which the sense of the text is manifested . . when he should answer the thing i alleged and proved , that nations are not appointed to be baptized without any other circumscription , but disciples or believers in them , he repeats his dictates as obscurely as before , bringing a text impertinently , which doth not at all say , that all the nation of egypt , that is , every man , woman , and child , that is an egyptian , shall be his people , but such as know the lord , do sacrifise , vow a vow , return to the lord , verse , . which was fulfilled either when after the return from captivity , in babylon , many of the egyptians became jewish proselytes , who were very probably many when p●olomy philadelphus appointed the bible to be translated into greek , as josephus l. . antiq. c. . relates , or if it were fulfilled in the time of the gospel , the stories of the church refute that conceit , that the whole nation of egypt were a national christian church , as the jews before christs comming , so as that all the people , men , women and children were christians , though it be true that god had his church at alexandria in egypt somewhat early , of which mark is said to have been bishop ( of which more may be seen in selden on eutychius ) and if that passage pet. . . the church that is at babylon elect together with you , be meant of babylon in egypt , it is plain that the church there was an elect company chosen out from the rest , and therefore not the whole city , men , women and children , and consequently not a nation entirely ; nor is there a word either in matthew . . or in the places mr. m. compares with it mark . . gal. . . rom. . , . or acts . . to prove that any other of the nations should partake of the covenant the jewes before had enjoyed , than those that receive the gospel , believe and repent , or that they that believe should partake of the promises of the covenant as it was national , and contained the promises made to abrahams natural seed , or that he would henceforth be the god of the nations professing the gospel , and their seed : but the texts all of them prove plainly that the term [ nations mat. . . ] is limitted to those of the nations , that were disciples , or did believe , mark . . that did repent , acts . . that believe , romans . , . as for gal. . . i admire that not only mr. m. but also the assembly at westminster in their confession of faith chap. . art . . to prove the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , should cite genesis . , . with gal. . . . which if it were alleged any thing to their purpose to include infants as genesis . , . then [ nations ] must be taken to comprehend all of the nation , and [ the blessing of abraham ] meant of visible church-membership : wheras the text expresly expounds [ all nations ] to be meant of them [ which be of faith ] and [ the blessing ] to be [ justification , and the promise of the spirit through faith ] inferring from thence , that god would justifie the heathen through faith . yea it is so frequent to understand the term [ nations ] synecdochically for a part of nations , that i find no fewer than eighty times , and of these at least eight in matthews gospel , the word [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nations or gentiles ] in the new testament , taken so as not to include infants , in the speeches in which it is used . but of this i have said enough in my praecursor sect . . in my postscript to m. bl. s. . m. b. in his praefest . morat . s. . saith , that my speech he excepts against [ that no one countrey were discipled ] was meant by me not onely of a past event , but also of a duty , that it is not the ministers duty to endeavour the discipling of any whole nation ( for then he must endeavour to disciple infants ) nor a part of the work of that commission ; and this i confess is true , and i still think it ; yea if it were as mr. b. would have it , that christ had bid them disciple the whole nations , even infants , then he had bid them preach the gospel to infants , which had been a command of a man not in his wits , and which the apostles never obeyed , and therefore i must blaspheme christ if i expound the words as mr. b. doth ; nor doth any promise of christ foretel that he will make the whole of a nation , even the infants , disciples . what is in his addition page , . i know not : i had thought i had all his addition to his third edition when i had his friendly accommodation , and his praefestinantis morator ; what the reason is i know not , but i cannot yet get his additions : yet i conceive in his addition there is but a greater heap of impertinent texts . he saith of me , as for what he saith of moses and magistrates , if you peruse what i have said to that already , i think it will appear that he is no where more vertiginous than in this . to which i answer , i said that if christ would have had a whole nation made his church as the nation of the jews was , comprehending old and young he had used emperours and kings to gather his church as he did moses to gather the jewish church in the wildernesse by his authority , not apostles and preachers by perswasion . what he saith to it in his first edition , shall be ( god assisting ) in its place fully answered , i may more truly say that in this conceit of his , that christ should bid the apostles disciple infants , there is giddiness , if not an higher degree of folly . and my speech is so agreeable to reason , that if i be vertiginous in it , i shall then begin to turn sceptique , and question whether any thing be certain . as for what mr. blake saith about the rule of knowing a chosen believing nation , giving title to infants of that nation to be baptized as the jewish infants were circumcised , i think there is no need to add any more to what i say in the postscript s. . sith he confesseth page . as the nations are discipled , so they are to be baptized , and the infants of a nation are baptized by vertue of a privilege from their parents , not from the nation : though mr. rutherfords words temperate pleach . . concl . . arg . . due right of presbyteries ch . . sect . . p● . , . do intimate that the children in a chosen nation are holy with the holiness of the chosen nation , though father and mother be as wicked as the jewes that slew christ , who were certainly unbelievers , and they must stand to this if either they will justify the ordinary practice of baptizing any infants of any athe●stical , profane sco●ters , persecutors , & blasphemers of god and religion , if they were baptized in infancy and are called christians , or stand to their principle , that the commission is to baptize all nations in the same latitude that the jewes infants were to be circumcised , which was and ought to be done , though the parents were such as ahab and jezabel . but however those of the congregational way , who say we are freed from the paedagogy of the jewes , and deny that now there are national churches by institution as the jews were , and that it is sufficient now to make a member of the church because one is by birth of this or any other nation , as then it was , because one was born of the nation of the jewes , as mr. burroughs vindic . against mr. edwards aspersions pag. . me thinks should reject the interpretation o● making disciples all nations , in like wise as the one nation of the jews were circumcised , which was by vertue of their birth , according to gods appointment , as descended from abraham , or as joined to that people . yet mr. cobbet just vindic . part . ch . . s. . argues thus . all nations are the subject to be discipled and baptized by commission , and therefore at least all the specifical parts of the nations , all sorts of persons in the nations , but not all of every sort . to which i reply , the consequence is not of any validity , all nations , therefore all sorts of the nations , it follows not , all nations shall serve him , therefore all sorts of the nations , all nations compassed me about , therefore every sort of persons in a nation . but , saith mr. cobbet , i would know then why the collective nations are mentioned under that title of nations rather than that of grown persons of the nations . to which i answer , the reason is because the thing said , suffiently shews who of the nations are meant , and it is very frequent to restrain the extent of speeches pro subject a materia , as the matter spoken of will bear it with truth and sense . and that this is usual in the use of the term [ nations ] is shewed before . as for what mr. william cook saith in his font uncovered page . children are not to be excluded mat. . . because children are a very considerable and essential part of a nation , it is frivolous , for . if he mean by children infants , it is false that infants are an essential part of a nation , it is possible there may be a nation which may have for some time never an infant in it . . if it were true , yet it is not to his purpose till he proves that [ nations mat. . . ] is not taken synecdochically for a part of the nations , those that are of age to understand preaching of the gospel , but that it must comprehend every essential part in its full latitude . and in like sort mr. nathanael stephens his reasons taken not from the text , but from his own conceit , that [ nations ] must be taken as [ nation ] was in the application of it to the jewish church , and that otherwise there should be a shortning of the covenant , they have been often answered and shewed to proceed upon such mistakes as these , that the church of christians was to be modelized after the fashion of the jewes , and the use of baptism was to seal such a national covenant , and that title to a covenant made by god gives right to baptism . and for his instances page . of his precept for infant-baptism , to infringe our argument from john . . to prove that mat. . . only disciples actually made are the subject appointed to be baptized , they all proceed upon a mistake of the reason , as if from the example there were gathered an universal rule , whereas it is onely brought , first to explain the meaning of the phrases mat. . . of making disciples and baptizing them . secondly , that example is brought not by it self alone ( as mr. stephens brings it ) but together with the institution , and all the examples in the new testament to prove infant-baptism irregular , but his single instances do not infer . and whereas page , . he takes on him to shew a certain rule to know a discipled nation , he should have added initiating infants of that nation to baptism , and sets down their publique profession , he cleers not the difficulty , except he tell what profession and whose makes it a publique profession , whether when the representative of it professeth , or the king , or the major part , or every person of understanding , and if he mean these wayes or any other , how he can acquit the apostles from swerving from christs rule , never looking after any other than personal profession , nor baptizing any infant upon his imagined rule , and if as he speaks , as the parents do now receive the faith , so far they and theirs must go under the account of a discipled nation , if they profess to bring up theirs in the faith , then though the children and servants be professed infidels , yet the parents and masters being believers , and promising to educate theirs in christianity , these shall be baptizable because part of a discipled nation ; and when he saith , not only the families of those that truly believe , but the families of others also that are willing to yield to the christian education , and to live under the tuition of a godly magistracy in the commonwealth , and the instruction of a powerful ministery in the church ; so far forth as they are willing to be guided by the lawes , and the government of the church of christ , and are no worse , so far they must go under the notion of a discipled nation : and parents and children both be the lawful subject of baptism : he speaks nothing but riddles leaving it to his reader to study what he means by so many [ so fars ] whether he thinks all these do amount to a profession of the faith , whether these do make a man a christian compleat , or onely an half christian , what he means by [ and are no worse ] and how such a submission , as for ought i can perceive may stand with grosse ignorance of christ , and at some times , as in constantines and theodosius his times was in pagans , afore the inquisition in spain in many jews and saracens , and is at this day in spain , yea and england in many that know nothing of christianity , nor have any savour of the faith of christ , can make a discipled nation , and entitle to baptism , not shewing any scripture for what he saith , but abrahams circumcising , gen. . , . which how impertinent it is to this point of baptism , is , and shall be more fully shewed hereafter . but i am necessitated yet to say something more to my teasing , and eager antagonist mr. blake , who speaks thus vindic. foed . pag. . mr. t. in his apology sect . . pag. . would fain fasten another interpretation on these words , and make the commission not to sound according to the letter of the words , nor yet according to the successe by grace attained , but to his liking and therefore is put to it to change the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then all nations must either be put by apposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or with the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and so instead of disciple all nations , it will be make disciples in all nations . this he thinks is very tolerable , because to disciple and to make disciples is all one . but though they may be one in themselves , yet it makes a main difference in the phrase , and with the additions of his preposition inverts the whole meaning of the words , as to the thing in controversie , which is such a violence offered to the text , that is not to be endured in him , that is about to draw a logical argument for his advantage against his adversary . answ : what i do in expounding christs words is not onely tolerable , but necessary to be done to cleer the meaning of them . i do no more than beza , the new annot. and others . mr. blake me thinks allowes my exposition in these words a little before . the apostles were to make disciples , to bring men into covenant with god , and being discipled to baptize them , sealing them as gods in covenant ; so john . , . when the lord knew that the pharisees had heard that jesus made and baptized more disciples than iohn , though iesus baptized not , but his disciples . here john made disciples & baptized them being made , the disciples of jesus made disciples , and baptized them being made ; an outward work then to make profession of the faith is sufficient to make one a disciple and to bring him into the verge of the covenant . in which he plainly asserts , that christ appointed and the apostles practised the making disciples by an outward work to make profession of faith , and baptized them so made . now if this be the meaning of mr. blake , i see not wherein there needs be difference between us . for whether we read make disciples all nations , or make disciples of or in all nations , and this making disciples by an outward work , and profession of faith upon that outward work are that which makes one a disciple , and these are to be baptized that are thus made disciples , i shall not stick to yield that christ appointed , and the apostles practised by the outward work of preaching to make disciples by the outward work of profession of faith , the whole of all nations , and baptized them wholly being made disciples by profession of faith : and i mean this as pareus on mat. . . tertium mandatum est de baptizandis omnibus gentibus , hoc est sacramento baptismi initiandis & consecrandis omnibus iis qui christo nomen darent . and herein i make the commission to sound according to the letter , and according to the success by grace attained , without the least interverting the whole meaning of the words , without any violence offered to the text . nor do i expect any thing in this matter to be indured in me but what i find agreeable to speeches of be●●● , pareus , the new annot. and m. blake himself . yea but the text is to be expounded so as to comprehend every age of men , and the term [ all nations ] is to comprehend the whole of every nation . answ. it is clear by comparing mat. . . with mark . . that [ make disciples all nations ] answers to [ preach the gospel to every creature ] which later term is in shew more comprehensive then [ make disciples all nations ] but i suppose mr. bl. will not be so absurd as to conceive that any other than of humane kind are meant thereby , nor that any other of them are meant thereby than those that were capable of hearing and understanding it , me thinks he should not conceive christ bid them preach the gospel to every deaf man , every natural fool , or mad man that have at no time use of reason , or men that wilfully would not hear : yea methinks mr. bl. should yield further , that when christ bids them preach the gospel to every man that is fit to hear , he did not intend to charge them , that they must preach the gosspel so as that every intelligent person of mankind in the world must hear it from their mouth : for then it had bin their sin being a breach of christs cōmand , if every person of natural understanding , whether of jews or gentiles , did not hear the gospel from them ; which must have tied them either to sin , or else to search out every countrey , continent , o● island be it never so small , every house in every city , village , wilderness , and to preach christ to them , wherever they were , which had been according to the course of ordinary humane abilities altogether impossible for them to do . i conceive mr. bl. will yield that in what sense it is meant col. . . the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven , that is it was preached to all sorts of persons that were hearers without difference of jews or gentiles , in the same sense christ bids them [ preach the gospel to every creature ] & [ make disciples all nations ] being the same command as the comparing the texts shews . if [ every creature ] be not meant of every creature universally and distributively , but of any sort or number of men indefinitely , to whom they might and it was fit to preach , in like manner in the same command thus expressed [ disciple all nations ] by [ all nations ] are not meant omnes gentes totaliter totae , all nations whole and wholly , but any persons indifferently in any nation whom they might , and were fit to be made disciples by preaching , and to baptize them that were professing disciples of christ so made , which is the only sense that the success by grace attained to makes good . neither did the apostles in the event preach the gospel to every humane person capable of hearing and understanding , they came not to every village , i●le , civil or barbarous , sure not to every house , yea sometimes they were restrained , as paul from preaching in asia , bithynia , acts . , . nor was there ever by the apostles or any other the gospel preached so successfully as that there was ever one whole nation , i mean totaliter tota , comprehending every individual humane person of that nation , discipled thereby , so as that every one of the nation , not one excepted , did upon hearing the gospel , freely , or of their own accord , soberly , or in their right wits , seriously , or not in jest , understandingly , or knowing what they spake , become disciples of jesus , confessing him to be the christ the son of the living god. but mr. blake goes on vindic. foederis pag. . [ and as it is against the letter of the text , so it is plainly against our saviours scope and end in giving this commission . mr. t. examen page . saith , this enlargement unto all nations in this place was in opposition to the restriction mat. . . now in that nation to which there they were limited , the whole of the nation was in covenant , all the land was the land of immanuel , isa. . . and consequently so it was to be in other nations by vertue of this happy inlargement , or else the opposition is utterly taken away , the meaning of the words clouded , and the apostles at a losse for understanding of them ; for having spent their pains before in a nation all disciples , and now having a commission for the discipling of all nations , how shall they understand the words , unlesse the whole of the nation where they come are to be discipled ? ] answ. the nation in which the apostles according to the commission mat. . . . before spent their pains , were the people of israel , and to say that nation were all disciples , understanding it of disciples of christ , and of every person of that nation , is to say the snow is black ; for the contrary is manifest by expresse scripture john . . & . , . & . , . & . . & . . but , saith he , the whole of the nation was in covenant , i grant that the whole of the nation were in the covenants at horeb , exodus . and in the plains of moab by moses his edicts from god deu. . but what is this to prove that the apostles spent their pains in a nation all disciples , every person or persons , even the infants of that nation were disciples of christ. were all of the jewish nation when the apostles preached to them , disciples of christ , because in moses his time many hundreds of years before all were engaged in the covenants at horeb , and the plains of moab by moses authority ? it is but a new non-sense gibberish to make these terms synonimous to be disciples of christ , and to be in covenant according to the manner of the jewes being in covenant . and the reason of mr. blake is as frivolous , all the land was the land of immanuel , isaiah . . therefore the whole of the nation were in covenant , that nation were all disciples of christ. for first it is plain that [ the land of immanuel ] there is not the people , but the ground or earth they inhabited , because it is that , the breadth of which the king of assyria did fill with his wings , that is his forces , and did pass through . . how doth mr. blake prove that it was called the land of immanuel , because the whole of the nation was in covenant ? it might be called immanuels land , when the assyrians , chaldaeans , and other strangers inhabited it , israel being expelled , because of gods title to it , and the people might and shall be in covenant when they shall not be in the land. . but it is in my apprehension a meer whimzy , to infer the whole of the nation was in covenant in isaiahs days , therefore the nation of the jewes were all disciples of christ when the apostles spent their pains in preaching according to the commission mat. . , . . there is no less dotage in the rest of his frivolous speech , that it [ is plainly against out saviours scope and end in giving the commission mat. . . to understand , make disciples in ( i said of ) all nations , that if the whole of the nation be not in covenant in other nations as in the land of immanuel by vertue of this happy enlargement , the opposition is utterly taken away , the meaning of the words clouded , and the apostles at a losse for the understanding of them . ] all which are but vain words . the meaning is plain enough , as i conceive , it was understood so by the apostles , and hath been so by expositors , as i have shewed , even by the chiefest of the paedobaptists , without any such construction as mr. blake makes . mr. blake goes on thus . [ and hereto accord the prophecies of the scripture , for the calling of the nations of the gentiles , god shall enlarge iaphet , and he shall dwell in the tents of sem , gen. . . sem was wholly in covenant not by pieces and parcells , but universally in covenant , iaphet is to come in succession into covenant in like latitude ; psal. . ask of me , and i will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession . it is not some among the nations of the heathen that are to be the inheritance of christ , but the heathen . to which agrees revel . . . the kingdomes of the earth shall become the kingdomes of the lord and of his christ ; immanuel of old had one , now he shall have more kingdomes ; and they become his no other way , than by discipling ; gods ministers are his men of war for subduing and captivating them , cor. . , . and kingdoms are promised them , not some in a kingdom . alexander would not sit down with such a conquest , neither would jesus christ. if to possess some in a kingdome be to possess a kingdom , then antichrist of long time hath had his kingdom ; all kings shall bow down before him , all nations shall serve him , psal. . . all nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee o lord , and shall glorify thy name , psal. . . thou shalt call a nation which thou knowest not , and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee , isaiah . . there god calls the nation , and the nation doth answer gods call . in that day israel shall be a third with egypt , and with assyria , even a blessing in the midst of the land , whom the lord shall blesse , saying , blessed be egypt my people , and assyria the work of my hands , and israel my inheritance . there egypt and assyria are in equipage with israel , all three sister-churches ; israel without any preheminence , either israel then was not a nation of disciples , a nation wholly within covenant , or else there are to be national churches , the whole of the nation to be discipled and brought into covenant . ▪ ] answ. mr. blake saith , the prophecies of scripture accord hereto , that mat. . . they were to make all in a nation disciples , the whole of the nation was to be discipled , and that the words were not otherwise to be understood . if this reason were of force , where any thing is said of the nation it must be understood of the whole of the nation , of every person in it or of it , even the infants . which how monstrous and wild a conceit it is will appear by multitudes of instances . matth. . . the kingdom of god shall be given to a nation ( contradistinguished to the jews ) bringing forth the fruits of it : if mr. blake say right , there is a prophecy of a nation , the whole whereof every particular , even infans should bring forth the fruits of the kingdome of god , mat. . . ye shall be hated of all nations for my name sake , that is , the whole of all the nations , and if so , then of the christians even themselves , who are a part of the nations . besides , if this were the meaning , the prophecy of christ would be contradictory to the prophecies mr. blake brings , in the latitude in which he expounds the word [ nations ] mat. . . nation shall rise up against nation , and kingdom against kingdom , that is , if mr. blakes fu●ile dictates were ought worth , the whole of the nation and kingdom , even the infants , should rise up against the whole of another nation and kingdom , even the infants . acts . . god hath given repentance to the gentiles , or nations , that is , according to the rate of mr. blakes expositions , the whole of the nations , even the infants . acts . . the conversion of the nations , that is , of the whole of the nations , even the infants , ver . . all the nations upon whom my name is called , that is , the whole of the nations , even the infants . the instances are so many to shew the futility of mr. blakes reasoning , that i hope either he himself will discern his folly , and those that magnify him , his weakness herein , or else me thinks the impudence of such reasoning should be exploded . but to shew further the vanity of his dictating , rather than disputing , he mentions gen. . . as a prophecy of the calling of the gentiles , but he takes it as presupposed , but proves it not ; and what exceptions ly against it will appear in that which follows in answer to mr. cobbet . and then he saith , sem was wholly in covenant , not by pieces and parcels , universally in covenant , if he mean it of the jews , in the sense wherein being in covenant is as much as being disciples of christ by profession , it is most palpably false : for they disclaimed it , john . . but were it granted that they were in covenant wholly , yet where is there a word to prove that japhet is to come in succession into covenant in like latitude . again he saith , psal. . . it is not some among the nations of the heathen , that are to be the inheritance of christ , but the heathen . in which speech either he deals deceitfully or unskilfully . for whereas to [ it is not some among the nations ] he opposeth [ but the heathen ] he should , if he would speak congruous sense , have said [ all of the heathen ] for [ ah ] is opposed to [ some ] but instead thereof he saith [ but the heathen ] which is either to delude the unwary reader in that indefinite expression , as if it were all one with an universal , or to trifle , sith [ some of the heathen ] may be called [ the heathen ] it being but an indefinite term , and doth not stand by any rule of logick necessarily for [ all heathen ] and therefore it is all one as if he had said , it is not among some of the nations , but among some of the nations . besides , what sense is there in these words [ some of the nations of the heathen ] ? what are the heathen but the nations ? heathen , gentiles , the nations , are all terms of the same sense , answering to the same words in greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore to say [ some of the nations of the heathen ] is all one as to say [ some of the nations of the nations ] which is to trislle . then revel . . is brought in , which prophecy is not to be fulfilled till the seventh angel sounds , till then he shews not that gods ministers have kingdoms promised them , not some in kingdoms . and even then the nations were angry , and the wrath of god was come , and the time of the dead to be judged , ver . . which sure was not in johns daies , ●or is it to be imagined to be fulfilled in our daies . his talk of christ as emulating alexander the great , is most vain . christ conquers those whom his father hath given him , be they fewer or more , and sits down with that conquest , untill his foes be made his footstool , but it is most false that there is any scripture that tells us , that all the kingdomes of the world shall be christs , so as that the whole of each nation shall be disciples of christ , or willing subjects to him . for then at his comming he should have no enemies to put down , none to condemn . no doubt antichrist , yea and the devil too , hath had of long time a kingdom , some its likely in most or every kingdom , yea even where christs kingdom hath been . doth not christ say , the angel of the church of pergamus dwelt where satans throne was ? neither psal. , . nor psal. . . nor isai. . . saith , that the whole of the nation shall be disciples of christ , and if the prophecies were understood in that latitude , they were most palpably false . nor is isa. . , . certain to be a prophecy of the call of those people in the times of the messiah , but may be understood of the succession of proselytes thence after the return from the captivity , and if it were , yet there is not so much as the term [ nation ] nor is it absurd to deny israel to be a nation of disciples , or a nation wholly within covenant , as being within covenant is equipollent to being disciples of christ ; nor can national churches , consisting of the whole of a nation , even the infants , be proved thence , or by any history . the whole of the nation to be discipled , and brought into covenant , is a meer phantastick dream . m. bl. yet ads , these prophecies or a great part of them i produc'd in my answer of mr. t. passing by other in silence ( as having nothing to reply ) he marvels that i am not ashamed to produce psalm . ver . . psalm . . ver . . to prove that the whole of the nations , even infants , must be included , matth. . . as if it were foretold that the whole nation , even infants , should come before god and worship . it is strange if mr. t. be ignorant , that prophecies in the old testament of the glory of new testament times , are in old testament phrases by way of allusion to the worship of those times , set forth to us . now it was the practice of the people of the jews , for their males of growth and strength to appear before the lord , and neither females no● infants , as ainsworth on exod ▪ . , observes , yet they appeared in the name of females , and their females and children were in covenant together with them , deut. . . so that as the rest of the prophecies to which mr. t. hath nothing to say , so these two prophecies ( against which he excepts ) speak fully for the discipling of nations in the new testament times . answ. mr. blake construes my omitting to except against the allegation of the other prophecies besides psalm . . psalm . . as if i had nothing to reply , whereas being indeed in that writing necessitated to be brief , i thought best to answer those that seemed to have most shew for him : but now he is answered in all . i said i marvelled he was not ashamed to produce them as he did : but he seems past shame . he saith vindic. foed . pag. . that an eminently learned man lately observed that i had donum impudentiae . who that eminently learned man is i know not , nor do i care . till there be given a reason of this censure it cannot better me , but will have a shew of malignancy to me , if not vanity also in the censurer and relator . and ill will seldome speaks well : he may bestow his censure more rightly elsewhere . i say still , it is a shameful thing to abuse scriptures as mr. blake doth to understand by nations the whole of the nation , even infants , when , if they be so understood the scripture should in that sense be most palpably false ; for it should foretell a thing that neither was nor will be . i conceive myself not ignorant of what mr. blake saith , and though i grant all he saith , yet it covers no part of his shame in abusing the text . for even in his allusion , the whole of the nation , females and infants , did not appear before the lord , and therefore were the extent of the prophecies as large as that they are conceived to allude to , yet the whole of the nation , even infants , were not included . and this is enough to shew the futility of his talk about discipling nations , which in his sense never was . nor is there one reason given by mr. blake for his exposition , and reasons sufficient are given for mine , and i may retort mr. bls. words upon him , all indifferent men may challenge their reason that heed him , and when i am taken with such frivolous dictates as his are , i expect my friends should conclude that i doat . sect . x. that infants of believers are not disciples appointed to be baptized , mat. . . the last exception against the minor in my argument [ that infants of believers are not disciples of christ appointed to be baptized mat. . . ] is by denying it , and asserting on the contrary that they are disciples and appointed there to be baptized . but this is so sorry a shift , so contrary to the notation and use of the word in the new testament in the text , to the apostles practice which best expounds christs commission , to their own or fellows confession elsewhere , that it looks like the putting a face on a thing when there is small hope to hold it . mr. rutherford divine right of presbyteries page . see you doubt not of a warrant for baptizing children who are not disciples ; for then the apostles from this place had no warrant to baptize the infants of believers . nevertheless because such men as mr. cotton , and mr. baxter have put this text in the front to prove infant-baptism by it , i shall lay down sundry arguments against that abuse of the text , and then examine what they say about this . that our lord christ did not mean by [ disciples to be baptized matth. . . ] infants either of believers or unbelievers , i prove . . from the notation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a verbal noun , which comes from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath learned . mr. b. plain scrip. proof ▪ &c. pag. . acknowledgeth it to have denomination from the act of learning . mr. blake vindic. foederis pag. . they are still stiled in new testament-scriptures , believers from the faith that they profess , saints from the holiness to which they stand engaged , disciples from the doctrine which they profess to learn , and christians from him whose they are , whom they serve , and from whom they expect salvation . whence i argue . they are not disciples as mat. . . who do not learn or profess the learning of christs doctrine ; but infants do not learn christs doctrine ; ergo they are not disciples . the major is proved from the notation and use of the word before confessed , and intimated in that speech of the apostle eph. . ▪ which shews , that to be a disciple is to be one that learns christ. the minor is manifest , from the want of capacity to learn , and from sense , to which it is apparent that they regard not , heed not , understand not any thing of christ , as by other signs , so by the difficulty to teach them when they come to years . to this what mr. m. replies is answered before . mr. b. part . chap. . saith you must understand that one may be called a disciple , . in a large sense relatively , as being of the number of those that belong to christ as master and king of the church , and destinated or devoted to his oversight and rule , and teaching , for the future : thus believers infants are disciples , of which i shall give you proof anone . . sometimes the word is taken in a narrower sense for those who are actually learners . but commonly applied to men at age it includeth both relation and subordination , and also actual learing , but the former principally : but applied to infants it intendeth the relation at present and actual learning , as one end of it intended for the future . to which i reply , . i take it for granted that it is sometimes taken for those who are actually learners . . that the term [ disciple ] commonly applied to men of age includes actual learning . . that applyed to infants it intendeth the relation as present , and actual learning as one end of it intended for the future . wherein letting passe the uncouth expression that [ the word in tendeth an end ] and taking his meaning , i observe , first , that he makes the term [ disciples ] to be meant in one manner , when it is said of men of age , and another when of infants . which me thinks is as absurd as that he chargeth mr. bedford with pag. . that he made one end of baptism in the aged , another in infants , one covenant to parents , and another to infants , as if the aged were one sort of disciples meant mat. . . and yet the same word includes another sort of disciples in a clean different sense . it would be known of which sort of disciples he understands it , for certainly there is but one sort of disciples there mentioned : and if he will stand to his words in that place ▪ he must understand it of disciples upon instruction . secondly , that he sets down the sense of a word , and yet produceth no place for the present where the distinction is put , but refers us to another place , which his reader must seek , and when he hath sought all his book he shall find but one text acts . . and that miserably abused by him . of which in its place . thirdly , that he acknowledgeth page ▪ and here , that the denomination is from the disciples act of learning , yet will have it imagined that an infant may be a disciple without his own actual learning , onely from his belonging to christ by gods covenant , and mens destination and devoting to learn hereafter . but it is to me unconceivable that the denomination which is from the act inherent in the person should be without the act inherent in the person from some acts of another , and those acts not putting the form denominating in actual being , yea when oftentimes the form denominating is never in act . for by mr. bs. doctrine , gods covenant , and mans devoting make a disciple , and yet i think notwithstanding the covenant , and mans devoting , many thousands , yea the most part of infants whom he would have baptized never actually learn by reason of death or disaffection , yea many expresly renounce it . were gods covenant absolute to every true believers infant that he shall be a disciple , yet for the present it doth put nothing actually in the person to whom the promise is made , no more than election doth put actually any thing in the elected . praedestinatio ni● ponit in praedestinato , aq. p. . q. . art . . gods purpose of a thing doth not put it in being , mr. bl. vindic. foed . pag. . most truly mr. cobbet just vindic. part . . cap. . election doth neither make a man holy , but only in●e●●ionally , nor give him actual church right . and this may in like manner be said concerning gods promise or covenant , by it self considered , it doth assure something for the future , but put nothing in present being . the covenant is to a person afore he is born , as to isaac and jacob , shall it be said , that afore they were born they were actually disciples , and had actual church right ? i confesse they might be called disciples or believers in possibility , but not actually . gods election and promise denominate a man elected and a child of the promise ( which are terms of the same extent , rom. . . ) but not justifyed , converted , regenerated , or actually a believer , disciple , or visible church member . but this is yet more in consistent with mr. bs. bypotheses , who when he assigns the covenant which he will have to make an infant actually a disciple , makes it onely the conditional covenant of grace ( as i shall shew hereafter ) and that covenant is upon condition of faith , and this he will have to belong to all men whether believers or unbelievers , and me thinks he should not say all men are actually disciples , visible church members , though god hath made that covenant with them which he seals in baptism , which he often saies to be only the conditional covenant , and ●eckons it my prime errour that misleads me in the point of baptism , that i make baptism seal the absolute covenant of grace . and yet he chargeth mr. bedford p. . . as with an absurdity following his tenet that baptism should seal one covenat to the father , another to the son . if then the covenant make not others actually disciples , then neither insants . idem quà idem semper facit idem . again , a conditional covenant cannot make an actual disciple , till the condition which is actual faith be put . conditionale nihil ponit in esse . therfore the cōditional covenant sealed in baptism cannot make an actual disciple . nor is it to be said , the parents faith is the condition of the covenant for the child . for . it being not the condition of the covenant to the parent that another should believe for him , neither is it the condition for the child , except mr. b. will fall into the absurdity he chargeth on mr. bedford , that one covenant should be to the father , and another to the child , sealed in baptism . . a child , the father believing , shall be actually a disciple before it is born , for a conditional proposition , the condition being put , becomes absolute . now it is his child , and he believing afore it is born ; ergo. in like manner it may be said of anothers devoting or destinating an infant to be a disciple , that is no act of the person denominated , it can only make a disciple intentionally ; a persons devoting is but his wish , or desire , or promise , and shall that make a child actually a disciple ? yea destinating and devoting is before the child is conceived or born , as hannah did devote samuel , was samuel therefore actually a disciple and visible church-member afore he was born ? many of those whom the parents destinate and devote to be actual learners in after time , yet never are such : yea many of them are express disclaimers and opposers of that doctrine ; shall these be called actual disciples , from their parents wish , or hopes , or promise ? again , he makes the term [ disciple ] applied to an insant to note a relation present , actual learning as one end of it intended for the future . i confess that [ disciple ] notes a relation between the teacher and person taught , yet it seems to note a passion as its form or quiddity , so that if any should ask who is a disciple , i should say , one that hath learned , and what it is to be discipled , it is to be taught or learned , and so doth import a passion , and is to be put in that predicament , and the relation is as they say secundùm dici , not secundùm esse . but were it granted that the whole essence of a disciple did consist in relation , i would fain know what shall be the foundation of his relation . logicians say , to relation there is requisite a foundation , as begetting , two terms , as father and son , and a respect arising between them from that foundation , as fatherhood it is an unheard-of thing that a relation should be without a foundation , a father without begerting , an actual father without actual begetting . it is true , a man may be p 〈…〉 lly a father without actual begetting , but to make an actual f 〈…〉 without actual begetting , is oppositum in opposito . mr. b. saints everlasting ; est , part . 〈◊〉 . . sect . . to be the people of god without regeneration is as impossible as to be the natural children of men without generation . now what should be the foundation of the relation of a disciple of christ but learning of christ of an actual disciple but actual learning , i know not . future learning , being acording to mr. b. the end intended , is not in being , perhaps will never be , and therefore it is in my apprehension a most illogical and absurd conceit which mr. b. hath hatched , to obtrude upon us such a notion of a disciple , as supposeth a relation without a foundation , and contrary to grammar , to call a person a disciple who hath learned nothing , no not so much as to know or own his teacher . to say a person may be a scholar afore he learns , serves not turn , to avoyd the force of this reason : for the term [ scholar ] coming from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , leasure or vacation from other exercise , may be without actual learning , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a verbal noun from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hath learned , and disciple à discendo , from learning ; and therefore as it is absurd to call one learned or a learner , without learning , so it is absurd to call one a disciple without actual learning . but i rest not on the notation alone , but proceed to the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a disciple . . i argue thus . the word [ disciple ] matth. . . is to be understood as it is understood all along the new testament ; but all along the new testament it is applied to those that addicted themselves to some as teachers , followed them , learned of them , no where to an insant , who doth none of these . ergo , infants are not disciples , meant matth. . . the major is plain from the rule of understanding words , that it is to be according to the use of them . the minor is proved thus . the disciples of christ are understood as the disciples of iohn and the pharisees , luke . . as the disciples of moses , iohn , . of the perverters , acts . . but in all these places , and in all the rest , they are termed disciples of john , the pharisees , moses , and the perverters who addicted themselves to them , followed them , learned of them , no where an infant , who doth none of these ; therefore the term [ disciples of christ ] notes onely such , and no where an infant . . i argue thus . they that are not termed believers , are not disciples ; but infants of believers are not termed believers ; therefore they are not termed disciples . the major is proved from the equipollence of the term [ disciple ] and [ believers ] in the new testament . calvin institut . lib. . cap. . sect . . cur respondet quod passim evangelistae sideles & discipulos ponunt tanqu im synonyma , ac-praesertim lucas in actis apostolorum saepius , acts . , , . & . , , , , , . & . , . & . . & . ▪ , . which thing is strongly dispured by chamier , . panst. cath. tom . . l. c. . s. . against the papists implicite saith , that none are believers but disciples who learn and know . which he confirms from matth. . . in these words , nimlrum disertum erat christi mandatum , matth. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , docete , sive discipulos facite omnes gentes . the minor needs not proof , believing being an act of the intellectual part , supposing the use of reason which infants ordinarily have not , at least in such things they cannot be sayd ordinarily to be behevers ; nor is the term believer any where in scripture applied to them . rightly saith the same chamier , panstr . cat. to● . . l. . c. . sect . . infantes potentia tantùm sideles sunt , actu nemo nisi adultiv . . this is further confirmed by comparing matth. . with mark . , . where the same commission is expressed , given at the same time , in somwhat different words , which therefore without all contradiction the one expound the other . now what is sayd matth. . [ make disciple of all nations ] is in mark . [ preach the gospel to every creature ] and what is sayd matth. . [ baptizing them ] is mark . . [ whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved ] which apparently shews that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them or disciples ] are the same with [ believers ] and consiquently not insants . . which is further confirmed by philips answer to the eunuch 〈…〉 ling him , that act● ▪ . which shews that philip understood christs commission to be to baptize believers and none else ; but infants are not such ordinarily ; therefore they are not ordinarily to be baptized . mr. b. himself pag. . saith , now for the aged a disciple and believer are all o●e mark . ● . what mr. blake speakes vindic . foed : ●ag , . of insants being disciples as to the participat●●n of ordinances , and elsewhere of being believers virtually , though not formally , is without scripture proof , which termes none disciples 〈…〉 right to participate of ordinances , but from learning , 〈…〉 believers who are not so formaly , nor do i know 〈◊〉 w 〈…〉 infants may be called virtually believers , then 〈…〉 ing is sayd to be virtually such , though not formally , when it hath , though not the quality in its kinde , yet hath it ability to produce it , as the sun they say is not hot in its self formally , yet it is hot virtually , because it can produce it in another ; but i presume he will no say this of an insant that he is virtually a believer because he can produce it in another . if he mean it in another , sense , he should shew how an infant may be said to be virtually a believer , and prove that sense out of scripture , and not abuse men with a nonsense distinction , if he mean to cleer truth . i shall need no better proof against him , to shew infants are not to be termed disciples and believers , than his own words , vindic. foed . p. . all visible professors that except the terms of the covenent are believers , saints , disciples , christians ; so they are stiled in new testament scriptures , believers from the faith that they profess , saints from the holiness to which they stand engaged , disciples from the doctrine which they profess to learn , and christians from him whose they are , whom they serve , and from whom they expect salvation : of which terms according to his own explication none can be attributed to infants of believers . . that infants of believers are not disciples appointed to be baptized , matth . . is proved from the means of making disciples , to wit , by preaching the gospel to them , as appears by mark . . for what is matth. . . make disciples of all nations , is mark . . preach the gospel to every creature . whence i argue , those disciples which christ hath ordinarily appointed to be baptized , an such as are made such by preaching of the gosepl to them . rightly saith mr. collings vindic ▪ vindic . pag. . how i● one made a disciple , but by conversion ? and when is a man converted , but when he is brought to believe ? but infants of believers are not made disciples by preaching of the gospel , as is of it self manifest , and acknowledged by the adverse party , who make them disciples by an imaginary covenant , and their parents profession ; ergo , they are not disciples appointed by christ ordinarily to be baptized . . those are appointed to be baptized , and no other , whom the apostles did baptize , for the apostles practice shews how they understood christs commission , and rightly saith mr. norton , respon . ad apollon . c. . pag. . . religio est nobis judicare apostolos in baptizando observàsse regulam à christo latam matth. . . religion binds us to judge the apostses to have observed in baptizing the rule made by christ matth. . . but they baptized no other than repenting and believing disciples of christ , no infants , ergo. to say that in christs and the apostles daies there were no infants which they might baptize , is neither true , nor consistent with their own allegations of mat. . , . acts . . & . . to say that at first gathering the church they were not to do it , but after , is to make them faulty in not observing the commission of christ , as they expound it , that even in the first planting of the church they were to baptize disciples immediately and remotely such , as mr. baxter speaks ; and to hold that the apostles practice is not our pattern , and that the first church was not best ordered , though it was indeed the purest reformed church , and therefore the solemn covenant ties us to endeavour the establishing the worship of god according to it . to say , infants were baptized by them but not recorded , is without proof , or any likelyhood of truth , and tends to derogate from the fulness and perfection of the scriptures . out of all which i conclude , that infants , even of believers , are not disciples appointed matth. . . ordinarily to be baptized . sect . xi . mr. cottons allegations in his dialogue , the first chapter , to prove infants disciples , are shewed to be insufficient . against this mr. john cotton in his dialogue , intituled , the grounds and ends of baptism , &c. chapter . disputes thus . that all the children of the faithful ( or which is all one , all the children of the church , for the church is a congregation of the faithfull ) that they are all of them disciples , may appear by the testimony of the prophet esay , who speaking of the times of the church in the new testament ▪ all thy children ( saith he ) shall be taught of god , esa. . . and if they be taught of god then are they disciples , for that is the meaning of the word disciples . disciples are taught or learnt of god. answ. . it is supposed but not proved that the tossed v. . is meant of the church of the n. t. and not of the people of the jews after the captivity . . the phrase of [ children of the church ] is not a scripture-phrase , nor that i know is the church made a mother , though jerusalem , which is above be called the mother of us all , gal. . . which seems to be meant of the evangelical covenant . . it is supposed that to be children of the church , and to be children of the faithful , are one , yet mr. cobbet in his just vindic. makes them only the church seed , who are children of persons inchurched , otherwise , though the parents be faithful , yet they are not the church seed . besides to be [ children of the church ] is not all one with to be natural children of believers . for the church doth not beget or bring forth by natural seed , but by spiritual , to wit , the word of god , peter . . and children are begotten in the womb of the church by the spirit , and therefore said to be born after the spirit , gal. . . by the promise or covenant of the free woman , v. . and indeed the new annotations on isaiah . . hath thus , and thy children shall be taught of the lord ] by the outward ministery of the word , and inward co-operation of the spirit , jerem. . . john . . cor. . . cor. . . john . , . calvin instit. lib. . cap. . s. . denique non frustrà deus apud iesaiam hâ● not â disoernit filios ecclesiae ab extraneis , quod omnes erudiet [ verbo ] ut sint ab ipso edocti . . it is supposed that the church whose children those are is the visible church as such . whereas . in scripture no church is called the mother but hierusalem above , gal. . . which is the mother of us all , and that is either the evangelical covenant , or the invisible church . the churches children are christs seed , and they are those whom his father hath given him , heb. . . made disciples by his word and spirit . our lord christ where he cites this passage of the prophet , john . . applies it to those that are drawn of the father , and whom he will raise up at the last day , ver . . who are only the children of the invisible church . diodati annot . on john . . all not all and every particular person , as it appears by ver . . & but all the elect and children of god. no● is mr. c 〈…〉 shift , rather than answer , of any moment , when he saith , for look what promises are made to the invisible church , they are for their sakes offered to all the members of the visible churches , whereof the lively members are the chief . for . he doth alter the term in the objection , which was [ made ] not [ offered ] wherein both he , and mr. george philips before him , deal not rightly , so speaking as that it may be taken , that to be in covenant ; to have the covenant made , is all one with to have it offered : whereas it is offered not only to the children of the visible church , but to many professed unbelievers , as acts . . now this answering is a way to delude readers , when the objection is , that the promise is made only to the children of the invisible church , to answer the promises are also offered to the members of the visible , and when it is expected that it should be proved the promise is made to conclude that it is offered . . mr. cotton dare not say that promise to be made to any but those that are children of the invisible church , and therefore it can be meant of no other , and so no other taught of the lord and disciples , which will not reach to the natural children of visible in churched believers . . [ thy children ] is not all one with [ thy infants ] mr. cotton denies not , that the meaning in part may be of men of years , and if so no necessity to understand it of infants , and then his argument falls , which is to prove infants to be disciples . . besides , our lord christ , where he cites john . . the prophet , leaves out the word [ children ] and applies the teaching of god onely to true believers . omnes , saith grotius , quibus sermo evangelii annuntiatur . . were it granted mr. cotton that all believers infants were taught of god by secret indiscernable teaching , yet this being such , cannot be applyed to the disciples meant mat. . . who are disciples by preaching the gospel , and known to be such by their profession . but mr. cotton tells us , the infants or children of the faithful are not to be excluded from the number of the children of the church . for the same prophet speaking of the same church , fetcheth in infants among the blessed ones of the church , and blessed with such spiritual light and life from christ , as if they had lived an hundred years in the church esa. . . there shall be no more ( saith he ) then●● forth an infant of daies , nor an old man that hath not filled his daies . for the chi●● shall dy an hundred years old , but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed . how shall the child dy as at an hundred years old , but that he is so well instructed , and inlightned by christ , and thereby as capable of enterance into heavenly glory , as a grown disciple of an hundred years old ? ans. . were m. cottons paraphrase granted , yet the conclusion followes not thence , that therefore infants are disciples to be baptized according to mat. . . or as he speaks , children of the church . for to be so well instructed , and enlightned by christ , and thereby as capable of entrance into heavenly glory as a grown disciple of an hundred years old , may agree by extraordinary inspiration to one that is only of the invisible church , and not of the visible church as disciples meant mat. . . . mr. cotton , when he saith , [ how shall the child by as at an hundred years old ] doth sl●ly intimate as if [ as ] were in the text : whereas it is not so , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the child or boy shall dy an hundred years old , or the son of an hundred years . which without any allegory hath a plain sense as the new annotations expresse it , he that is now a child shall attain to those years ere he dy . which was accomplished in the return from the captivity according to the prophecy of zechariah ch . . vide grotius . and therefore we need not run to any allego ▪ annot in ze● . rical interpretation , nor refer it to the times of . . the messiah , either after the resurrection or afore , of which hieronym in locum . . were an allegory allowed , yet not only in hierom , but also in calvin , piscator , and others , there are va●iety of senses different from mr. cotton , so that in alleging these texts he trifled more than became so grave a man. but he goes on thus . the apostle peter reckoneth infants of the church for disciples acts . . if the infants of the church had not been disciples , the false apostles could have pretended no power to have ●ut that ordinance upon them . answ. . [ infants of the church ] is a phrase the scripture useth not , and i● serves only to possess the unwary reader with this conceit , as if the children of believers inchurched , as they speak , were children of the church ; whereas none is a child of the church till taught the gospel and made a believer . . it is untruly suggested , as if the false apostles pretended power to circumcise infants of christian disciples from this chat the infants were disciples : but ver . . . shew plainly that they alleged that the gentile disciples were tied to observe the law of moses , and so to be circumcised , both they and their children . but , saith he , peter acknowlegeth them disciples , but the yoke of circumcision was too heavy for them , as drawing upon them the yoke of the ceremonial law. answ. there is not a word of peter acknowledging the infants disciples , but the believing parents ; nor is the yoke of circumcision said to be too heavy for them now ▪ as if it were not so 〈◊〉 , but it 〈…〉 such as neither the apostles , nor their fathers were able to bear , much less gentiles . but 〈…〉 christ mark . . luke . . 〈…〉 ) is the kingdome of god , which argueth that even little children are members of the church here . answ. it is proved in my postscript● . . that matth. . . the kingdom of heaven , in mark . . luke . . the kingdom of god , is meant of the kingdom of glory : but it follows not that therefore infants are members of the church here , many belonging to the invisible church , which belong not to the visible , and vice versâ , as abortives , still born infants , converts at the point of death , &c. are of the kingdom of glory , who are never members of the visible church here . but , saith he , whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god , as a little child ( to wit , as a little child receiveth it , for so much the grammer construction requireth ) he shall in no wise enter therein . answ. it is untrue , that the grammar construction requireth , that it should be understood thus , that a little child receiveth the kingdom of god , but only this is meant , that none shall enter into the kingdom of god , but such as have such an humble mind , free from ambition , as a little child hath , as our lord himself expounds it , mat. . , . but , saith he , christs testimony of them and his carriage towards them , shew that little children born in the church are accounted disciples of christ , and therefore commanded to be baptized with their believing parents . answ. mr. cotton himself confesseth , that it doth not appear that their fathers , who brought them , were baptized themselves ; how are they then said to be children born in the church , or to be baptized according to rule ? wherefore his own words shew it to be uncertainly , and therefore insufficiently alleged to prove that the infants of believers are among the blessed ones of christ , such as of whom his church and and kingdom consisteth , and so come under the fellowship of his disciples , whom christ commandeth to be baptized . and in very truth in that there is nothing apparent , whether the parents brought them or others , whether the parents were disciples or not : nor is any thing at all ascribed to the parents but to christs indulgence in this action , and it appears christ did not command them to be baptized , nor spake any thing as intituling them to discipleship and baptism , though he said , of such is the kingdom of god , this text is not only impertinently brought to prove the discipleship and baptizability of believers infants , but also makes to the contrary , that infants are not disciples nor baptizable , sith if they had been so christ would have so declared on this occasion , which was opportune for it . but there is yet another argument in that chapter of mr. cottons , and it is to this effect , that the commission mat. . . appoints believing parents to be baptized , and would infer , that in gods account , and in scripture phrase , parents themselves are not reputed of god to be baptized , if their children remain unbaptized . answ. but will any man believe mr. cotton in this , that in scripture phrase parents are not reputed of god to be baptized if their children remain unbaptized ? scripture speaks of thousands baptized , and mentions not the baptizing of any of their children under that relation as their children , shall we believe mr. cotton that those phrases of scripture , that say they were baptized , speak false ? and that they were not reputed of god to be baptized , because there is no mention of their childrens baptism ? many believers were baptized their children being infidels , mat. . . were not the parents reputed in gods account baptized because the children were against it ? but let us hear mr. cottons goodly proof in his own words . surely , saith he , in the old testament a man was accounted of god as uncircumcised himself , if his children were uncircumcised : for so it is written in exod. . . that if a man will come and keep the passeover , all the males in his house must be circumcised : and the reason given , is , for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof , which plainly argueth , that a man is uncircumcised himself , and ( as an uncircumcised person ) is to be debarred from the passeover , until all his males be circumcised . if then our lords supper come in the room of the passeover , and our baptism in the room of circumcision , look as he that had not circumcised his males was accounted as one uncircumcised himself , and so to be debarred from the passeover , so he who hath not baptized his children is accounted of god as not baptized himself , and so to be debarred from the lords supper . answ. that baptism and the lords supper come in the room of circumcision , and the passeover , is often said , but never proved . but if it were granted ( though i still deny it ) yet mr. cottons inference is not good , till it be also yielded , that every rule of circumcision , and the passeover is a rule to us about baptism and the lords supper , which me thinks he should not maintain . nor do i think he can give any reason why in this the rule should bind more than in others . yea did he consider it , he might have perceived , that if the proportion be stretched according to this rule , no parent must be counted baptized , nor to eat the lords supper , except he had not only all his children baptized ; but also all his servants . for the males to be circumcised were not only children , but servants also , and so those must be baptized who are out of covenant , and a national church must be fo●med like to the jews , which i think were hated of him as the blind and the lame were of davids soul. and methinks it should follow , that if it happen ( as it may happen many waies , especially in new england , where many baptized persons may not have their children baptized , because the parents are not church-members ) the infants be unbaptized the parent is to be baptized again , because counted of god , and according to scripture phrase , if mr. cottons dictates hold , unbaptized . which being absurd , i count his inference ( if therefore you forbid baptism to children , you evacuate the baptism of their parents , and so make the commandment of god , and the commission of the apostles , and the baptism of believers , of none effect , together with that other passage of his pag. . if godly parents do withdraw their children from the covenant , and the seal of the covenant , they do make void ( as much as in them lyeth ) the covenant , both to themselves , and to their children also . and then will the lord cut off such souls from his people , gen. . . ) to be meer mormoes or bugbears to fright children , though i am afraid they are used for a further evil end to incite magistrates a gainst antipaedo baptists , and to justify their hard dealing with then in new england . that which mr. cotton addes , that if we gather no infant are disciples from mark . . compared with matth. . ● ▪ because believer and disciple are terms of the same sense , and i● fants not believers , it would follow , that no infant were capable of salvation any more than baptism , i have answered in my praecursor s. . that which he speaks of the gospel , that the promise of being god to believers and their seed is to be preached as gospel according to mark . . and if his allegations of acts . . luke . . gal. ▪ , . be right , and his words true p. . god hath promised salvation to believers , and their seed , and house also , is so palpably false , that mr. marshal and mr. geree do both disclaim it as contrary to protestant doctrine , as i shew in my apology s. . that which he saith pag. . ( ' that the expounding baptizing into the father , son , and holy ghost mat. . . thus , baptize them into the true and orderly profession of that which they have been taught and believed , is to assert that we are to be baptized into the name of creatures for profession is an act of our own and so a creature , which he counteth an effect of gods judgement taking men in their own wiliness , while they turn the glorious name of the blessed trinity into the weak performance of a christian duty , is a frivolous quillet unfit for so grave a man , james ch . . . to anoint with oyl in the name of the lord , id est , saith beza , invocato nomine domini , the new annot. by calling on the name of the lord , which is a work of their own : do they therein turn the name of the glorious god into a creature ? but enough of this childish chapter of mr. cotton , in which i find so little worth answering , that were it not for the esteem he had , and his acquainting me with this piece in his letter to me , i should have chosen to have let it passe as not worth the labour bestowed in answering it . mr. william cook in his font uncovered pag. . brings acts . , . to prove that infants in their mothers arms were reckoned among disciples , and makes the enumeration there to answer deut. . , , . ezra . . and whereas it might be said that the children are distinguished from the disciples , he prevents this by retortion their wives are distinguished from disciples , yet might be disciples , so the children . answ. . the places are no way parralel in the matter , nor exactly in the enumeration made , in the former there is mention of servants , none here , all were of duty there to enter into covenant the whole nation together , not so here , in the later place no mention of wives , and the business was a solemn humiliation for them upon their return from captivity , but here only a courteous accompanying of paul to the ship . . i grant the wives are not necessarily excluded from being disciples , nor children by the enumeration acts . . nor are they necessary to be included : but how doth mr. cook prove the the children , babes carried in armes , or such little ones as had not abilities of understanding ? more likely , this thing being done by common consent , the wives and children were of years to conceive what they did , whether already baptized disciples or persons catechized and expectants it is uncertain . i shall now , finding nothing needing more answer in mr. cobbet part . ch . . s. . but what will fitly come in when i answer mr. baxter , pass on to the answering mr. baxters third chapter of the first part of his plain scripture proof , &c. where he thus argues . sect . xii . mr. bs. allegation of acts . . to prove infants disciples is fully answered & his arguments retorted . all that are christs disciples ordinarily ought to be baptized ; but some infants are christs disciples ; therefore some infants ordinarily ought to be baptized . he tells us how he means by [ disciples ] which meaning of his is before proved not to be the meaning of the text , and then saith , his major is evident in the text from the conjunction of the two commands : go make me disciples , baptizing them . if any shall be so quarrelsome against the plain tezt to say , it is not all disciples that they were commanded to baptize , but only all that were made disciples , and this making was onely by teaching . i answer , . if i prove infants disciples , i sure prove therby they were made so , or else they they had never been so . . by teaching the parents and children were both made disciples , the parents directly , the infants remotely or mediately : if they be proved once to be disciples , it will easily follow it is by this way . he that converteth the parent , maketh both him and his infants disciples incompleat or in title ; this therefore lies on the proof of the minor. . but i would say more to this , but that mr. t. ( as i understand ) hath in his sermons professed , that if we will prove that infants are christs disciples , he will acknowledge that they ought to be baptized : the like he granted to me ; and well he may . answ. . it is well mr. b. grants that to go make disciples , baptizing them , are two commands , and that there is a conjunction of them , whence it follows , that he appoints not baptizing till the making of disciples , nor of any but disciples made as christ appointed . . it is no quarrel against the plain text , but the very plain doctrine of the text to say , it is not all disciples ( visibly or invisibly , directly or remotely , compleatly , or incompleatly , in reality or in title ) that they were commanded to baptize , but only all that were made disciples , and this making was only by teaching or preaching the gospel to them mark . . . it is true , i have often granted , that if it be proved infants are christs disciples made by preaching to them the gospel , they ought to be baptized . but when i granted this , it did not come into my thoughts , that mr. b. would ever have hatched , much lesse have printed such wild nonsense fancies as here he doth , of a disciple by title without learning , like a king of jerusalem without reigning ▪ or the popes bishop of chalcedon without overseeing , of teaching remotely in the parents conversion without any personal teaching in themselves . for which fancies he neither brings a text of scripture , nor any approved author , nor any other besides himself thus speaking . such distinctions are but meer abuses as are without any instance of such an use of terms . and to shew the grossnesse of this foppery of mr. b. which a school ▪ boy may easily discern that hath gone no further than qui mihi discipul●s . i argue thus , . if he that converteth the parent maketh the infant a disciple , then either because the infant is an infant , and then evrey infant should be made a disciple by that conversion ; or because his child , and then every child is made a disciple , yea though he be a professed infidel ; or both , and then it would be shewed what grant there is to the child while infant , which ceaseth when grown up : where the relation of a disciple in his sense is appropriated only to infant child . yea all the plea is , by teaching the parents and children were both made disciples , therefore this relation comes from being a child of such a one : but the professed infidel child is the child of the father ; therefore also a disciple in title , and to be baptized after mr. bs. doctrine . . if children be made disciples remotely and mediately according to the command matth. . . in that the parent is converted , and that the teaching of the parent is the teaching of the child , then it follows , he that teacheth the father hath done his duty of teaching , though he teach not the child himself , and so a preacher need not at all go and catechize each child but only preach to parents . it would be ill with kederminster if it should be so there . but this follows according to mr. bs. exposition of christs command mat. . . . it will follow as well , that he that baptizeth the father baptizeth the child , for there is a conjunction of these commands , and the baptizing is to be correspondent to the teaching ; if then the teaching the parent is the teaching the child , then is the baptizing the parent the baptizing the child according to the command , and so the command is only to baptize in another him who is taught in another , and it is a gross transgression of christs command to baptize him in himself , who is only a disciple in another . . forasmuch as mr. b. doth not limit the childs being a disciple or teaching remotely to the next parents being converted , he that shall teach the grandfather , great grandfather , &c. teacheth the child , makes him a disciple , yea according to his doctrine pag. . he that converts the master of the house makes his servants , and those that are at his dispose , though not his children , ( whom he would have baptized ) disciples , for sure he would not have them baptized that are not disciples . now i appeal to any man of understanding whether this be not as gross and pernicious a delusion as hart the jesuit held ( so much exagitated in the conference by dr. raynold ch . . divis . . ) that the pope preacheth by another , to say he that teacheth the parent teacheth the child , assuredly had i ever dreamed that mr. b. had such phantastick , if not frantick notions , i had denyed his major , and do now expresly deny it in his sense , all that are christs disciples incompleatly , in title only , remotely by the parents conversion without their own ordinarily ought to be baptized , and expect it to be proved by him ad graecas calendas . nor would i have laid the stress of the argument on the proof of his minor , if i had understood his deceitful gibberish , by which he detestably abused many people , and perverted christs words . but it is my lot to answer such a writer and i follow him . he next goes about to prove his minor thus , [ that some infants are christs disciples , and so called by the holy ghost is most evident to any that will not grosly pervert the text or overlook it , in acts . . why tempt ye god to put a yoke on the neck of the disciples , which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear ? now who were these disciples ? no doubt those on whom the false teachers would have laid the yoke . and what was that yoke ? it is plain it was circumcision , as necessary and as engaging them to keep the law. and whom would they have perswaded thus to be circumcised ? why both the parents and children in that age , and only the children in all following ages ordinarily . so that thus i argu , those on whose necks the false teachers would have laid this yoke were disciples : but some , yea most of those were infants on whose necks they would have laid this yoke : therefore some infants are disciples , and so called here . the major is plain in the text. ] answ. the minor of mr. bs. argument , that infants are christs disciples , should not be understood of disciples in that sense , that christ appoints disciples to be baptized , matth. . . discipleship in mr. bs. sense in title without learning , by remote teaching in the parents conversion , being a sense unknown to the scripture , and a meer figment of mr. bs. brain , is falsly said to be a scribed to infants by the holy ghost , or to have any evidence in scripture for it : nor do i think any do more grosly pervert the text , acts . . or overloook it more than mr. b. but let us look a little nearer on mr. bs. arguings : he premiseth three questions , and answers them ; concerning which i grant his answer to the first , that those were disciples on whom the false teachers would have laid the yoke . in his second question and the answerly sundry fallacies , . in that he puts the question about the yoke what it was ; whereas the question that should have cleared the difficulty had been , what was the putting on of the yoke , ( which mr. b. doth i fear sophistically omit ) the point in question being who are meant by [ disciples ] and it being resolved by mr. b. those on whom the false teachers would have laid the yoke , the resolution must be not by knowing barely what the term [ yoke ] imported , but by knowing how they would lay the yoke , or what the act was of the false teachers , termed , laying a yoke on their necks . were the act effected or attempted , or intended onely , it 's that we must know what act it was , whether such as infants were the passive subjects of , or whether such onely as persons of age were capable of ? and here i conceive two ways they might be said to lay the yoke , one by cutting with their own hand off the little skin of the privy member , either of parents or children , or both , according to the rite of moses law ; the other by teaching , perswading , charging parents that they and their children should be circumcised , or else they should not be saved ; the former had been an act of their hands , this latter of their tongues ; the former onely can prove infants to be meant by [ disciples ] if this latter be meant , then infants are not meant by [ disciples ] for they were not subjects capable of that act . there was no act either effected or attempted on infants , but onely the act of the hand using an instrument to cut off the skin . if they had attempted to act on infants the later way , by telling sucking children , you are to be circumcised , and to keep moses law , they had done rather like mad men than cunning seducers . mr. b. himself , when in the next words [ and whom would they perswade to be circumcised ? ] and when after he confesseth , that which the false teachers did , was teaching , doth plainly intimate that the false teachers act , in putting on the yoke , was onely of the tongue , not of the hand , and therefore not infants the passive subject of it , and so not meant by disciples . yea , the text it self clears what their act was , when it says , v. . they taught the brethren , v. . they trouble● ▪ them with words , subverting their souls , saying . and this is enough to shew the foppery of mr. bs. and others , arguings hence to prove infants disciples , had they any minde to heed what is spoken . those onely are meant by disciples who were patients or passive subjects of the act of laying on the yoke : that is mr. bs. own major in effect : but infants were not such , for they were not taught , nor troubled with words , nor had their souls subverted by the sayings of false teachers ; therefore they were not the disciples meant acts . . . concerning the answer to the question , as he lays it down , [ that the yoke was circumcision , as necessary , and as engaging them to keep the law , ] it may be meant either of the command concerning circumcision , and so it is granted that the yoke was circumcision , that is , the command of circumcision propounded , and taught as necessary to the disciples , that they might be saved , and engaging them to keep moses law ; or by circumcision is meant circumcision in act , or actual circumcision , as passively received in the flesh , and this it seems mr. b. understands , sith it was it which was to be put on infants , and it onely , in which sense it is not meant acts . . as i have shewed . . the terms [ as necessary , and ingaging them to keep moses law ] may be understood variously , either as necessary and ingaging them in the opinion of the circumcised , so that the sense is , they would have laid the yoke on the necks of the disciples , so as that the disciples should have received circumcision with this opinion that thereby they were ingaged to keep moses his law , and in this sense it is true , the yoke was the command of circumcision to beget this opinion , or else in the opinion of the teachers or circumcisers onely , and so it is false , that the yoke was actual circumcision as necessary , and ingaging to keep moses law , they did not onely teach or circumcise , so as to have an opinion of this necessity , but so as to indeavour to possess those they would lay the yoke on , that it was necessary , and they were ingaged to keep moses law. as for his answer to the third question , according to the plain sense of the words , it is false , that they would have perswaded the children , i mean infant children , to be circumcised : for though they would perswade the parents to be circumcised , and then to circumcise their children , yet that they would have perswaded the children , that is , that any of them went to an infant and would have perswaded him to be circumcised , is false , and the thing would have been ridiculous . as for the argument from acts . . as it was framed by mr. m. i did exam. pag. . deny the major , and gave my reason , it is not said , they would put it onely on disciples , it is more probable they endeavoured to put it on the necks of all , whether disciples or others , as a thing universally necessary to salvation , v. . which mr. m. in his defence overthrows not , but puts it off without answer , onely imagines that then i cannot evince from matth. , . acts . , &c. that john and christs disciples baptized onely penitent believers . but i presume mr. m. will be better advised than to make it alike argumentative to prove all were disciples on whom the false teachers would have put the yoke , from acts . and to prove that there was baptism in the new testament but of penitent believers , from the perpetual course of the history thereof , in the former disciples being onely mentioned occasionaly in condemning a fact done to them , in the other are set narrations of acts done in the church of god , and therefore there would have been a defect in the narration if there had been any other than penitent believers then baptized , but mr. b. pleads thus , if any will say , that it is not all , but some of those on whom they would have laid the yoke that are here called disciples , that is onely them at age , i answer , then it is but some onely whose circumcision the apostle and the synod doth conclude against , that is those of age . for he speaks against laying the yoke on none but disciples , and then for any thing the apostle saith , or this synod , all infants might be circumcised still : which is a most grosse absurdity , when the very business of this synod was to decree against the necessity of circumcision and the law. to which i replied , i denied the major as expressed by mr. m. thus [ all they upon whose necks those false teachers would have put the yoke of circumcision are called disciples and to be called disciples ] because i conceived they would by their teaching put a necessity of circumcision even on unconverted jews who are no disciples , yea upon all persons whatsoeuer , holding of all sorts of persons that except they were circumcised and kept the law of moses they could not be saved . and in like sort i deny the major of mr. bs. argument if it be universal , all those on whose necks the false teachers would have laid the yoke mentioned acts . . were disciples . nor is it plain in the text , there is no more plain in the text but this , that the persons expressed acts . . on whom the false teachers would have layd the yoke were disciples . but it doth not follow that they would have layd the yoke on none other than are there expressed , as when it is sayd , christ would have gathered the children of jerusalem , matth. . . though none but the children of jerusalem are there expressed , yet it follows not all are the children of jerusalem whom he would have gathered . nor doth that imaginary grosse absurdity follow which mr. b. would fasten on this deniall of his major . for . there are in the synods letter both v. . condemning the false teachers doctrine , and v. . . laying no other burden on them to whom they wrot , plain pasages exempting old and yong from circumcision , though v. . were left out . . even in that , v. . peter reproves their putting a yoke on the neck of the aged , he doth determine parents not bound to circumcise their children , and this is a conclusion against circumcision of infants , as a canon against priests marriage is a law against their wives living with them ; and the concluding against a practise in some upon a common reason , to others is a general prohibition , as the apostles determination acts . . is a determination against the like in others . but however , this is enough to answer mr. bs. argument ; and some perhaps would yield his minor , yet i deny it , and doubt not to shew that in the thing wherein he is most confident , in so much that in his epistle before his saints everlasting rest , he makes me with others play the devil in accusing my own children as no disciples , when god saith the contrary , ( o utinam ! ) acts . . he is an egregious trifler . to prove his minor , he thus argues , i prove it was the infants also , thus , if it were infants also whom the false teachers would have had to be circumcised as necessary , and as engaging to moses law , then it was infants also on whom they would have laid the yoke ; but it was infants also whom they would have had circumcised , &c. therefore , &c. the antecedent is undeniable . but it is the consequence mr. t. denieth ; for he saith , it is not circumcision as necessary , and as engaging to moses law , which was the yoke , but it was the doctrine of those teachers . but was mr. t. of this minde when he wrote these words ? exam. p. . answ. . should the conclusion be granted him , that they were infants also whom the false teachers would have had to be circumcised , &c. yet sith he grants , that they would have had the fathers circumcised , they onely may be meant by [ disciples ] though circumcision were yielded to be the yoke . . circumcision is no way necessary , that i know , but as commanded , nor engaging to keep moses law , but as taught , and yielded to . and therefore i know not what sense mr. bs. words have , that it was infants also whom the false teachers would have had to be circumcised as necessary , and as engaging to moses law , but one of these , they would have them circumcised , having this opinion , that it was necessary , and did engage , or that they taught circumcision as a necessary command , and as engaging to moses law , and in this latter sense i should not have sayd , ( if i did say it ) that it is not circumcision as necessary , and as engaging to moses law , which was the yoke , but it was the doctrine of those teachers ; but rather have sayd , it was circumcision as necessary , and engaging to moses law , which was the yoke , that is , the doctrine of those teachers . but because mr. bs. expression is du●ious , or nonsense , and that which he mainly bends himself to prove , is , that it was not the doctrine which was the yoke to be put on disciples , ( for then there would have been no colour to expound [ disciples ] of infants ) but circumcision in act , or acted on the flesh , though as a blinde he add those words , as necessary and engaging to moses law , therefore i denied the consequence , as if those words were left out , which indeed he himself leaves out in the proof of his antecedent , proving onely they would have had them circumcised , without saying any thing , to prove they would have had them circumcised under this formal consideration or respect , as yielding to the necessity of it , and engaging themselves thereby to keep moses law. but if he put in those words in the minor , in this sense , i deny it also . as for the consequence there is no proof brought for it to confirm it , but by overthrowing the reason i gave of denying it , so that had i given no reason of denying it ▪ there had been brought no proof . but as yet i do not apprehend , though i had granted him , that circumcision was the yoke , and not the doctrine , ( which i do not ) that yet it would have followed , that if the false teachers would have had the infants circumcised they were those also on whom they would have layd the yoke , for they might have attempted to lay the yoke of circumcision on the parents , and so the laying on of the yoke might be onely the circumcising the parents , though they would have also the infants circumcised . but it being true , that i gave that reason of my denial of mr. bs. consequence , that i may the more abundantly shew the futility of his foolishly magnified dispute , i will engage with him even upon that point also . and to clear my meaning , it is true , exam. pag. . i said , the yoke , acts . . was circumcision , as mr. m. himself declared , pag. . of his sermon , and all the legal ceremonies , and the reason why i used that expression was , because i alleged mr. ms. words . but that i meant not circumcision in act , or as acted on the flesh to be the yoke , but circumcision in command , as commanded and imposed on the conscience , appears by the words following : if it be a privilege to be free from circumcision it is a privilege to be free from any ordinance in the room and use of it , it was the ordinance then , i made the yoke . and my minde is expressed thus , pag. . the putting the yoke of circumcision is not actual circumcision in their flesh , for that they were able to bear for many ages , but the necessity of it on mens consciences to salvation . in my antidote , sect . . i deny it to be actual circumcision , but somtimes call it the doctrine or opinion of the necessity of it . in my book of scandalizing i call it the ordinances of the jews . in my praecursor , pag. . the doctrines and commands : but most plainly i express my self in my praecursor , pag. . in my answer to the th absurdity mr. b. chargeth me with , pag. . of his plain scripture proof , &c. where i make it the yoke of doctrine , or the command of circumcision , and shew , that not onely grotius , but also pareus , piscator , diadati , the new annot. so expressed it . this then is my constant judgment , . that the yoke , acts . . is not actual circumcision or circumcision in act , that is , as acted on the flesh , which alone serves for mr. bs. turn to prove infants disciples , for no more would they have done to infants . . that the putting the yoke is teaching the necessity of it , or the command of god still binding their consciences , of which act the infants were not subjects recipient . . that the yoke as from the false teachers was the doctrine , or command of circumcision and other precepts of the law , which sundry learned men in their notes on matth. . . gather to be meant by the yoke , comparing these places with john . . what is matth. . . called christs yoke , is john . . called his commandments , and doctrinal commands , or as the expression is , matth. . . doctrines , commands , are called burdens , matth. . luke . . rev. . . as it is taken passively , that is , to be received by the person yoked or taught is the opinion of the necessity of these unto salvation , or as mr. b. himself after cals it the judgment of it . . that by the disciples are meant the converted christians of the gentiles called the brethren , v. . those that from the gentiles turn to god , v. . the brethren of the gentiles , v. . mr. blake vindic. foederis , pag. . complaint is made , acts . . that those that urged the necessity of circumcision put a yoke on the necks of the disciples , which neither they nor their fathers were able to bear ; they urged it upon all in visible profession , and not upon regenerate ones alone . . that by their necks is meant not their flesh or skin , but their consciences . let 's now see what mr. b. brings to prove the yoke acts . . to be actual circumcision , or in act , that is , acted on their flesh , and not the doctrine or command of circumcision , or that the putting the yoke was in their flesh by cutting off the skin , not in their consciences by teaching . . saith he , the text saith so three times over , [ that it was circumcision as necessary and engaging to moses law , that was that yoke ] v. . they taught the brethren , except ye be circumcised after the manner of moses ye cannot be saved : and v. . they taught , it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses : and v. . saying , ye must be circumcised , and keep the law. answ. there 's not a word in either of the three verses , that says so expresly , or by any good consequence , that the yoke v. . is circumcision actual or in act , that is , acted or to be acted on the flesh . mr. b. me thinks if he could have made any good inference from thence , for his conclusion , should have formed it , being not ignorant that in my antidote i bring these very verses and words to prove the contrary . . saith he , it appears evidently from the same , v. . the yoke which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear , that which neither their fathers nor they were able to bear , was the yoke there meant : but it was circumcision as necessary , and engaging to keep the law , and not the doctrine of the false apostles , which their fathers and they were not able to bear , therefore , &c. the major is in the text ; the minor is plain ; . in that there is no mention in the scripture of the fathers being so burdened with that false doctrine ; but that there is mention enough of their being burdened with the law , and circumcision as engaging to it . . it was true and good doctrine before christ which these false apostles taught , viz. that except they were circumcised , and kept the law , they could not be saved : i mean as to the jews it was true , ( for i will not now meddle with that great controversie whether the gentiles were bound to keep moses law. i know not what grotius , franzius , &c. say on one side , and cloppen burgius , and many more on the other . ) answer . this passage i also allege against mr. bs. opinion , in my antidote sect . . to prove that it is not circumcision in act but in command or doctrine that is there meant by the yoke . but that we may determine the thing it is to be considered : . who [ we and our father ] are : . in what part or respect , and how it was intolerable . doubtless by [ we ] the apostle means the modern jews , and by [ our fathers ] the jewes of former times . the intolerableness was not to their flesh , as diodati speaks , for the labour in observing it , for though it be true that it was very irksom to observe circumcision , and the rites of moses law , yet circumcision was possible to be born , especially by an infant , though , in the end and intent of the circumcisers it was done as necessary and engaging to keep moses law , yet the infants being not sensible thereof , it was not intolerable to them . and the apostle paul , phil. . . speaks of himself , as touching the righteousness of the law , blameless . but it was intolerable to their mindes and consciences , by reason of the imperfection of it to quiet the conscience , and the condemnation it bound to for not keeping it in , saith diodati locum . and therefore it was the command and doctrine that was intolerable to persons on whose consciences the law was imposed , not the acting circumcision , or circumcision acted , which alone was put on infants , and consequently the yoke is not what was imposed on infants , but on persons taught and commanded . as for mr. bs. reasons , the first he himself answers by his second . for he saith that doctrine was true to the jews before christ , therefore sure the fathers were acquainted with it , it was doctrine known among them whether the scripture mention it or no ; and whether it were true or false if it were received by them it must needs be burdensome to them . and for his second : . that it was true doctrine to the jews before christ that except they were circumcised after the maner of moses they could not be saved , and that it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law , v. . . is in my apprehension diametrally opposite to pauls doctrine , gal. . & . & . & . rom. . & . & . phil. . concerning the non-necessity of observing the law for justification , justification by faith without the works of the law both in abrahams , davids , moses his time . . if the doctrine were true to the jews , it was the more intolerable , it wouldly the more heavy on their consciences , finding themselves unable to observe it ; therefore this reason is against mr. b. and proves the doctrine was the yoke . but he adds , mr. t. saith it was the pharisees doctrine of being justified by the law which was the yoke . but i answer , . the pharisees were not of so long continuance as to be the burden of the fathers by their doctrine . . these in the text taught but a necessity that those who believed in christ should be circumcised and keep the law : so did not the pharisees . answ. . those in the text taught not onely a necessity that those who believed in christ should be circumcised , and keep the law , by way of precept , but also of means , that except they did so , they could not be saved , and that was still taken by the apostle in the epistles to the romans , galatians , philippians , as the doctrine of justification by the law. and that this was the yoke which was so intolerable , acts . . appears by the next words , ver . . but we trust or believe to be saved by the grace of the lord jesus christ , even as also they . the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but ] being adversative , shews the apostles assertion , v. . to contain an antithesis to their thesis or doctrine , that is , whereas they impose this intolerable yoke of doctrine , that without circumcision , and keeping the law , disciples cannot be saved , we believe they may be saved by the grace of our lord jesus christ , purifying their hearts by faith , v without the observation of moses law. . it is not true , that they taught onely a necessity that those who believed in christ should be circumcised , and keep the law ; as if they exempted others . for though there is mention onely of their teaching the brethren , yet doubtless they held a like necessity of it , or rather a greater , for jews . whether converted or unconverted , as for christian gentiles . . but were it true , that they taught but a necessity that those who believed in christ should be circumcised , and keep the law , yet the doctrine might be an intolerable yoke both to disciples , and to the ancestors from whomsoever they learn'd it . whose doctrine soever it were , yet it was a yoke intolerable to present disciples and the predecessors of former generations . . the antiquity of the pharisees is variously conceived by writers ; it is conceived that sect began three hundred years before the birth of christ , by some higher ; sure they were ancient enough to burden the fathers , that is , the ancestours of the modern jews , when peter spake those words . . were it that others spake that doctrine , and burdened the fathers with it , yet it might be well called by me the pharises doctrine , who taught it afterwards . . that mr. bs. willingness to cavil may appear , let v. . be read , and there it is said , the false teachers were of the sect of the pharisees . . saith mr. b. the doctrine is no further a yoke than as it hath reference to circumcision , and keeping the law , in practice , and as it prevaileth to bring them to the belief and practice ; therefore it is evident , that the doctrine is not the yoke ; but the judgment and practice which that doctrine did teach them ; else it would be in the power of men to yoke and burden us at their pleasure : but till we obey it we are free from the yoke ; therefore the yoke lieth not in the doctrine , but the obeying . answ. this argument however faulty , yet it plainly crosseth mr. bs. purpose ; for his aim is to expound the yoke , so as that it may be said , to be laid on infants , and so they be reckoned for disciples ; but if it be that the judgment and practice which the doctrire did teach were the yoke , if the yoke didly in obeying , as he here saith , then the yoke was not put or endeavoured to be put on infants , the false teachers neither did put nor endeavoured to put any thing on the judgment or practice of infants , nor to have brought them to obeying . what was to be done to them was not to be done by false teachers , but the parents ; there was no act to be done on the infants mindes , consciences , judgments , but on their flesh , nor were they to be active in practice , or willing in obedience , but meerly passive , and likely very unwillingly . and therefore i infer from mr. bs. own argument , if the doctrine were no further a yoke , than as it hath reference to circumcision , and keeping the law , in practice , and as it prevaileth to bring them to the belief and practice , that the yoke is the judgment and practice , which the doctrine did teach , that it lieth in the obeying , then it is no yoke to infants , then it is not circumcision as acted but as taught and yielded to , then it was not to be put on infants , and consequently no infants are meant by the disciples , acts . . but for the thing objected , as i have sayd before , the doctrine may be considered either in se , in it self , as it came from the teachers , or in the event to the persons taught , being yielded to by them : it is true , the doctrine was not à yoke to the disciples eventually , till the disciples yielded to it , but it was in it self a yoke , and might so be called before , as the truth of christ is the gospel or glad ●idings in it self , and may be , and is often so called , though it prove not so to all that hear it . wherefore i have sometimes called the yoke the command , sometimes the doctrine , sometimes the necessity of observation , sometimes the opinion of the necessity , and all these in different respects are rightly made the yoke , in respect of god the command and necessity of observance , of the teachers the doctrine , of the persons yoked the opinion and judgment , when it becomes such in the event , not onely in fieri , but in facto esse , yet no way barely circumcision acted on infants , and consequently they not disciples , acts . . which conceit is plainly overthrown by mr. bs. own argument . . saith mr. b. [ that which this synod did decree against , and peter here spoke against , that was the yoke here meant . but it was circumcision as needfull , and engaging to keep the law , which this synod decreed against , and peter here spoke against : therefore this circumcision was the yoke . the minor is evident in the the three verses before named , and in the whole chapter . who dare say that this synod did not decree against circumcision and keeping the law ? and the major is as plain ; and yet the very sum and strength of all that mr. t. hath to say against this text is here , which seems apparently to me to be but a meer cavilling with the plain scripture . ] answ. all this may be justly retorted . that which this synod did decree against , and peter here spake against , that was the yoke here meant : but it was not barely circumcision as acted on infants , but circumcision as taught , the command , doctrine , obligation , necessity of it to salvation , & opinion of that necessity urged on disciples by teaching , which this synod decreed against , and peter here spoke against : therefore this doctrine , command , obligation , necessity , opinion of circumcision and keeping the law urged on persons taught was the yoke , & not barely circumcision as acted on infants by parents , after the manner , and by virtue of moses law. the minor is evident in the three verses before named , and in the whole chapter . who dare say that this synod did not decree against the command , doctrine , obligation , necessity , opinion of circumcision , and and keeping the law ? and yet the very sum and strength of all mr. b. hath to say against this text is here , which seems apparently to me to be but a meer cavilling with the plain scripture . but he adds of me , [ he saith that the synod decreed against circumcision but by consequence , and not expresly ; and that the thing they directly and expresly decreed against , and peter spoke against , was not the yoke it self , but the putting the yoke on them , which was the act of the false teachers in teaching . ] answ. that which the synod decreed against , and peter spake against , i say was not barely circumcision as acted on infants , no● circumcision acted on infants immediately , but the command , doctrine , obligation , necessity and opinion of necessity of circumcision , and keeping the law to salvation , and consequently the infants circumcision , which how or in what sense they are the yoke , and what the putting on of the yoke is , hath already been often shewed . but saith mr. b. [ . if this were granted , yet neither directly nor consequently do they decree against the circumcising of any but disciples , and therefore infants must needs be part of those disciples . ] answer . that which peter spoke against was the practise of the false teachers , v. . the decree of the synod was expresly , . a condemnation of the false teachers practice , v. . . a release to gentile disciples of other commands called bardens save onely some excepted , v. , . acts . . and it is true that these decrees are directed onely to the disciples of the gentiles for the freeing of their consciences . but it is false that they decree against the circumcising of none but disciples . it is true the decree is not for the release of burdens to any but disciples : but he that releaseth the burden that is the command of circumcision to the father who is a disciple , doth withall by plain consequence free the childe from circumcision , and yet the childe no disciple . . saith mr. b. but the text expresseth actual circumcision three times over . answ. and it expresseth also keeping the law , doth it therefore follow that the yoke , acts . . is the actual keeping the law , and that this might be put on infants . . saith he , [ it is undeniable in the , . v. that it was matter of their practice , as directly as the false apostles teaching , and much more which was decreed against . it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , to lay upon you no greater burdens than these necessary things : that ye abstain from meats offered to idols &c. mark . their practice is the thing decreed upon expresly , and not the doctrine of the false teacher ( though that is implied ) they do not say we do not decree , that they preach so no more , but that you abstain , &c. answ. . mr. bs. speeches seem to enterfer , when he saith , v. . it was the matter of their practice as directly as the false apostles teaching , and much more , which was here decreed against , doth he not confess that the false apostles teaching was directly decreed against , though not so much ? yet presently he bids , mark , that it is not the doctrine of the false teachers that is decreed upon expresly ( though that is implied ) yet by [ directly and expresly ] he seems to mean the same . . what if v. ● , . decree not expresly against the doctrine of the false teachers , yet if it were implied it was decreed against . . if it were not expresly decreed upon , v. , . is it not enough that it was expresly decreed against , v. . ? . though they do not say v. . we decree that they preach so no more , yet when they say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burdens than these necessary things , this is an express decree against the doctrine of those false teachers , v. . except ye be circumcised after the manner of moses ye cannot be saved , and v. . that it was needful to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses . . saith mr. b. this is it also which is here called [ the burden ] in the sense , no doubt , with that which before was called the yoke , no greater burden or yoke . and can any impartial mans conscience tell him that the onely chief question here debated and determined was , whether the false apostles should any more preach such doctrine . and not rather whether the disciples ought to be circumcised and keep the law of moses . answ. if the burden and yoke be the same , then the yoke v. . is not that which was put on infants . for the burden v. . is called [ command ] v. ▪ and this was opposit to the false teachers saying to command them to keep the law of moses v. . and by burdens elsewhere are meant commands o● doctrine , or doctrinal commands matth. . luke . . rev●l . . . now commands were not attempted to be put on infants who could not understand them . . if the practise were the yoke , then it was not on infants who were not urged to pract●e but to suffer , specially taking in what mr. b. before said , it was the judgment and practice which the doctrine did teach which was the yoke . and to his questions i say , the false teachers doctrine and the disciples practise were both in question , and both determined in the synod , and therefore both decreed against , and so the doctrine is the yoke in respect of the yoakers , and the judgment and practise in respect of the yoaked . . saith mr. b. it was the church of antioch and not the false teachers that sent to ierusalem for resolution . . and it was to the brethren , and not to the false teachers that the synod did direct their letters , and decrees : therefore it was the disciples practise that is more directly decreed against ( or at least as much ) than the doctrine of the teachers . answ. be the conclusion granted , yet the doctrine is decreed against , and consequently is meant by the yoke v. . even according to mr. bs. argument , that which the synod did decree against was the yoke here meant . but doth not mr. b. in these words plainly intimate that disciples are the same with brethren , to whom the letters were directed , which sure were not infants ? it is true the church of antioch , and not the false teachers , sent to jerusalem for resolution , and that the letters were directed not to the false teachers , but brethren called believers , acts . . yet they sent about the false teachers doctrine , and the decree and speech were against that doctrine : even as the decrees or canons of councils are against the doctrine of heretikes though sent to the churches . from all which i infer that mr. bs. reasoning is frivolous , and while he oppose●h i● , his own arguments prove , that the doctrine of the false teachers is the yoke . but he hath not yet done . . saith he , if it were granted as mr. t. would have it , that it is onely putting on the yoke that is here expressely decreed against , and the yoke or practise it self but onely by consequence , then he would make this synod so weak as to leave the matter imperfect and obscure , which they were to determine expresly : and perhaps it might put him hard to it to prove that consequence : for it will not alway follow that what may not be taught may not be practised , as i could shew in several cases . answ. i hold the synod to decree expressely against the yoke , understanding by it the doctrine of the necessity of circumcision , the obligation and opinion of its necessity , and the pu●ting of the yoke , that is the teaching this doctrine to disciples , and by consequence against the gentiles believing parents practice of circumcising their infants as of duty , nor do i know how any other way mr. b. can gather it from the epistle of the synod than as i do ; sure in all the epistle i finde not any other way to prove gentile believers are not bound to circumcise their children , but by urging the words v. . . in which parents are not discharged of circumcising infants expresly in so many words , but by consequence . and yet the matter is not left imperfect or obscure , but there is an express determination against that which was the occasion of the synod , to wit the doctrine of the false teachers , v. . nor is the consequence hard to infer , if the apostles give no command to the gentile parents to be circumcised ▪ and to keep the law , then parents are not tied to circumcise their infants , there being no necessity or duty to them who have no command or burden put on them . mr. b. mistakes in conceivng i framed the consequence thus : what the false apostles might not teach , the parents might not practice . and therefore though he could shew in many more cases than he can , that it will not alway follow that what may not be taught may not be practiced , the consequence as i frame it may be clear , & the determination of the synod express and perfect . but he adds : . and me thinks we may be allowed to prove baptism of infants by consequence : if this synod assembled of purpose about circumcision and the law did yet leave them nothing but consequence against it . answ. i never said , that the synod left nothing but consequence against circumcision and the law ; nor did i disallow at any time the proving of infants baprism by consequence , but have often declared the contrary , though mr. m. most unbrotherly charged me with it , pag. . of his defence , but absolved me of it , pag. . as i shew in my apology , sect . . and in my praecursor , sect . . but having so long expected some proof by consequence for infant-baptism , and finding upon trial in so many authors as have occurred nothing worth the name of a proof , i conclude there is no such thing , but that paedobaptists , and none more than mr. b. do onely gull the world , and which is more to be detested , the godly , and of those , many that are teachers of others , with flourishes and shews , instead of proof , in so much as some who are of able parts magnifie his book about infants baptism as excellent , whether it be out of rashness , or for advantage sake to themselves , finde it upon strictest examination to be but a meer cheat . but mr. b. hath one string more to his bowe . . further , saith he , that it was circumcision it self as needfull , and as engaging to moses law , which is here meant , is plain in gal. . , , . no doubt either those that mis-taught the galatians were the same with those or their companions teaching the same doctrine , and therefore paul there decideth the same cause ; and mark what he cals the yoke , stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage . behold , i paul say unto you , that if ye be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . for i testifie again to every m●n that is circumcised , that he is a debtor to the whole law. is not he wilfull that yet will say , the yoke is onely the doctrine of the false . teachers , and not circumcision as engaging to keep the law. answ. . mr. b. before p. . said , that it is evident the doctrine is not the yoke ; here when he saith , is not he wilfull that yet will say that the yoke is onely the doctrine of the false teachers ? he doth plainly intimate that he excepts not against the holding the yoke to be the doctrine , but the holding it to be onely the doctrine of the false teachers , which is me thinks to contradict himself , and to overthrow what he contends for , to wit , the yoke is that which was put on infants : but the doctrine was not put on infants , and therefore if the doctrine were in part the yoke , and this not put on infants , then the yoke was not put on infants , then it is not absurd for me to expound the yoke of the doctrine of the false teachers , and his arguments against that exposition are answered by his own concession . . if it be true , that either those that mis-taught the galatians were the same with these false teachers , acts . . or their companions teaching the same doctrine , then it is most false which mr. b. teacheth , pag. . it was true , and good doctrine before christ , which these false apostles taught , viz. that except they were circumcised , and kept the law , they could not be saved ; i mea● as to the jews it was true . now the doctrine of those that mis-taught the galatians , was justification by the law , as appears by the apostles opposition , gal. . , . & . . , , . & . . & . . and this was the same with the doctrine of the false teachers , as appears from acts . , , , . and mr. b. confesseth it to be the same . but that doctrine the apostle denies to have been true and good before christ to the jews , gal. . & . and elsewhere , and therefore mr. b. contradicts the apostle , and his speech overthrows the gospel , and avows keeping of the law necessary to justification and salvation , to have been true and good doctrine to the jews afore christ. . he is not wilfull but considerate , that by the yoke of bondage , gal. . . understands not circumcision as acted on infants , that is the bare passive reception of circumcision , of which onely infants are capable , no nor perhaps ( for that is disputed ) all willing receiving of circumcision as the habassi●e christians do , but the willing subjecting to circumcision according to the command of moses , and the doctrine of the teachers that urged it as necessary for justification and salvation . for herein , . they have many of the best sort of protestant writers on their side ▪ . they have these reasons for them , . because the exhortation , gal. . is inferred from his determination in the precedent chapter , from v ▪ to the end , to wit , that the covenant of the law did beget to bondage , and that they were children of the free woman , and therefore the yoke of bondage is not simply circumcision as acted , but as mr. dicson expresseth it , the yoke of the covenant of works and legal ceremonies . . because [ if ye be circumcised , v. . ] is expounded rightly , if ye be willingly circumcised , upon the opinion , and according to the doctrine of the false teachers to seek justification thereby , as the reasons of the apostle , v. . do evidently shew . . otherwise timothy might be said to be entanged with the yoke of bondage when he was circumcised , acts . . which being so , this argument ( as all the rest of mr. bs. arguments ) is against him . for if the false teachers were the same , and the yoke the same , acts . . gal. . . and the yoke , gal. . . be not circumcision as acted on infants , but the covenant of works , and circumcision as taught and yielded to by the circumcised under the notion of necessity for justification , and obligation thereby to keep the whole law , then the yoke was not that which is put on infants , nor any infants meant by disciples , acts . . sect . xiii . the arguments are vindicated , which are brought to prove infants not meant by disciples , acts . . but mr. b. proceeds , well , but mr. t. hath one argument for his conceit , and but one that i have heard , and that is like the conceit it self . if ( saith he ) putting on the yoke be onely by teaching , then the yoke it self is onely the doctrine , and consequently it was to be put on none but those that could be taught . answ. . i deny both the consequences , and he will never prove them . for , . by [ putting ] he confesseth is meant [ an endeavour to put ] therefore it must be more than bare doctrine . and if by doctrine they perswade the people of the necessity of practice in so doing , they put on them both the mis-belief and the practice . answ. mr. b. it seems either did not reade , or not heed , or forgot what was in examen . pag. . when he saith , he had heard but of one argument for my conceit , though it be his meer ignorance that makes him call it my conceit , as if it were my peculiar conceit ; whereas his own conceit is scarce any thing older than himself , and mine agreeable to the exposition of the best and elder interpreters . and however when mr. b. wrote this he might know of no more arguments against his conceit , yet there are more i● my antidote , sect . . to which with this here i shall review his answers . my argument in form is this , they onely are meant by disciples , acts . who were to be the subjects passive or recipient of the act of the false teachers whether effected or attempted , that is of that which they would have done to them . but no infants were to be the subjects passive or recipient of the act of the false teachers whether effected or attempted , that is of that which they would have done to them . ergo. the major is plain to common understanding , according to all rules of logick and grammar . so we argue , they must be meant by all men , john . . when christ saith , i will draw all men to me , who were the subjects recipient of the act of drawing . every particular man is not the subject of christs drawing , therefore [ all men ] doth not note every particular man. innumerable such arguments are among writers ecclesiastical and civil , nor is there any thing more plain to common understanding the minor is proved thus : the onely act of the false teachers by which the yoke was to be put on disciples was teaching , or that which they would have done to them was onely teaching . but of this act no infant was the passive subject . ergo. the former is confessed by himself in calling it perswading , and if it were not , the text proves it , v. . ▪ ▪ the minor is manifest , they were neither capable of it , nor were the false teachers so sensless as to endeavour it . but let 's view mr. bs. answer . he denies this consequence , if the putting on the yoke be onely by teaching , then the yoke it self is onely the doctrine . but this is not my consequence , but this , if their act of putting on the yoke were onely teaching then the terminus , at least immediate , must be doctrine in respect of the agent , and in respect of the patient learning , as if the act of the sun be teaching , the immediate terminus is heat , although other effects follow , as dryness or the like ; so if the false teachers did put the yoke on the disciples by teaching , they did put doctrine on them , and if they received it they learned that doctrine , although other effects followed , as disquietnes of minde , &c. which may be comprehended under the metaphor of a yoke . by teaching parents , an infant is not cut or cicumcised , no not though the parents receive the doctrine , he may have no childe to circumcise , or no strength , or the like : no though it come to pass that the childe be circumcised , yet this is not done by the false teacher , but by the parent . if then their act was onely teaching , then the product result or terminus must be doctrine , though there were other consequents to follow . but mr. b. denies also this consequence , that if the yoke were onely doctrine , it was put on none but those that could be taught . whereto i reply , he may as well deny the snow to be white , as deny it : can any put doctrine but on persons that can be taught ? what is this but to hold that a person may have doctrine put on him , that cannot be taught , which is a meer contradiction , all one as to say , he may be taught that cannot be taught . but he will forsooth give us some reason of his denial as wise as the rest . for , . by [ putting ] he confesseth is meant [ an endeavour to put ] therefore it must be more than the bare doctrine . answ. . i confess not by [ putting ] is meant [ an endeavour to put ] though i confess that peter accu●eth them onely of their endeavour to put the yoke . . if i had confessed it , yet mr. bs. reason is foolish , for it would rather follow , that it is less than bare doctrine , the endeavour to put being less than putting . yet it is not true that i said , the yoke notes bare doctrine , without any other effect , but that the yoke notes doctrine , command , opinion of obligation , and necessity , and perhaps disquietness , trouble , care , fear consequent . however they that put the yoke by teaching did put doctrine on whom they put the yoke , the putting the yoke being nothing but teaching . that which follows , and if by doctrine they prevail to perswade the people of the necessity of practice in so doing , they put on them the both the mis-belief and mis-practice , is as little to purpose . for , . to put on them the misbelief is to put on them the doctrine , for doctrine is put on by being learned or believed . . they that do prevail do put on the mispractice it may be in the event , but not barely by their putting on their doctrine , for it may be they may both teach , and that effectually , so as that the person do learn or mis-believe , and yet not mis-practice through many intervenient impediments , yea though he do mis-practice , yet the mis-practice is not the terminus of his teaching , nor is he the mis-practicer , it is not his act logically or physically , though it be his morally , that is , the fault of it be imputed to him , as arising from the doctrine be taught . however if it be by perswading and by producing mis-belief and mis-practice , they onely are the subjects of it who mis-believe and mis practice , which being not verified of infants , they are not meant by disciples , on whom the yoke is put . but mr. b. gives a reason of his denial of the latter consequence , and it is this , . the latter consequence is as false ; for he that perswadeth a parent to circumcise himself , and his childe , doth as properly put that burden of circumcision on the childe as on the parent . though he teach onely the parent , yet by teaching the parent he puts the burden on both . answ. . if the putting the yoke be teaching or perswading , sure he onely is the subject of his putting the yoke , who is the subject of his teaching , ( as if we say the killing there was wounding by the sword , it folows he was not there said to be killed who was not wounded by the sword ) though it may be true also that another agent by another act may put the burden on one not taught . . but were mr. bs. speech true , yet it is nothing to his wi●less denial of the later consequence , for the consequence is thus , if the yoke were onely doctrine it was put on none but those that could be taught , which may be undeniable , though it be granted , that he that teacheth onely tho parents , yet puts the burden both on parent and child . . yea mr. b. doth grant it by supposing that he teacheth onely the parent , that doctrine is put onely on the parent . for what is it to put doctrine on any but to teach him ? and therefore if the yoke were onely doctrine , sure it was put on none but such as could be taught , unless we imagine that doctrine can be put on those that cannot be taught , which is all one in my apprehension as to say they may be taught who cannot be taught . and therefore if there be any silly wranglings in the dispute between us , sure mr. b. doth wrangle here either as a silly man or as a most perverse man in denying this consequence , and in his whole arguings about this text , when confessing the yoke to be not onely the doctrine but the judgment and practise also of circumcision , and that the false teachers would put it onely by teaching , yet doth imagine he can perswade his reader to be so silly as to conceive that they did any thing to infants or that infants are any of those disciples mentioned acts . . and here i shall inforce the arguments of my antidote sect . . the first is ad hominem . he counts it a heinous offence that i take the word [ holy cor. . . ] in a different sense than it is used six hundred times in the scripture , and yet ●e takes the word [ disciple ] used three hundred times in the new testament , and of those about one hundred in lukes writings for one that is a disciple by owning a teacher and his doctrine , in another sense o● rather nonsense acception for one that is a disciple in title , incompleat , without actual learning for present , that is for a meer relative without a foundation , and brings no place in any author for this sense but this , and therefore i may more justly use his conju●ing speech p. . requiring men that are not of desper 〈◊〉 resolutions and prostituted consciences to consider faithfully how they can answer the lord christ for perverting so solemn an institution as that is matth. . . by their baby sprinkling , when the very words of christ , practise of the apostles , constant use of the word [ disciples ] throughout the new testament , common consent of interpreters shews christ appointed disciples onely to be baptized ordmarily , who were made such by preaching the gospel , upon pretence that infants are called [ disciples acts . ] in a sense different from what luke useth it elsewhere even in the precedent and following chapters , and that sense or rather nonsense self-contradicting acception devised of late by mr. b. without any ancient author i know , or any reason from the text. that which mr. b. replies is as frivolous . . he saith infants are called disciples acts. . . they are there part of christians and disciples ; but this is false there 's not a word in the text that soundes to this sense , that infants are any part of the christians or disciples there mentioned , yea there is that which is plainly to the contrary v. . then the disciples , every manaccording to his ability , determined to send relief to the brethren . if every one of the disciples determined to send , and no infants determined to send relief , then no infants are part of the disciples . saith he , the case is not alike , in . cor. . . i argued about the meaning of the word [ holy ] here we are agreed about the sense , that it signifieth one so related to christ as their ●aster , the difference is about the application of this term . but this is false that i agree with him about the signification and sense of the word [ disciple of christ ] as it notes a relation to christ as teacher , yea i utterly deny it notes such a relation as mr. b. fancies in title without actual learning or owning christ as teacher , in which sense it is no where taken in scripture or any ancient author i know . . saith he , however i am certain , if we have not the name elsewhere , yet we have the description and names of the same signification , they are church members , gods people , his servants , and therefore disciples . answ. . this doth not at all avoyd his owne charge of prostituted consciences , &c. in another case , he charged these things on me for using the word [ holy ] in a different sense from what elsewhere it is used , though i brought a term of the same signification mal. . ▪ and cogent reason out of the text for my interpretation , and therefore by his own law to me , he is to be charged as he chargeth me for doing the same , though it were true he had the description and names of the same signification . . it is not proved , no nor can be proved , the terms [ churchmembers , gods people , gods servants ] to be of the same signification with [ disciples of christ ] . there is no : so much as one text in the new testament , which alone is written in greek by the holy pen-men , and therefore the fittest if not the onely way to shew the meaning of a new testament term , brought to prove infants under the new testament to be caled churchmembers , gods people , gods servants . . the consequence shall be examined in that which follows . besides i argued from the text , the putting the yoke on the necks of the disciples is the same with that which is mentioned v. . they taught the brethren , and v. . they said it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses , and v. . certain which went out from us have troubled you with words , subverting your souls , saying ye must be circumcised and keep the law. now is any man so sensless as to think they did these things to infants ? again the text. v. . . calls the disciples v. . brethren , saith v. . their hearts were purified by faith upon the hearing of the word , which none but those that are resolved to outface a plain truth would aver to be meant of infants , therefore neither the term disciples , v. fi●h what is said of the brethren is meant of the disciples v. . to this all the reply i finde in mr. b. is this pag . and your bringing some passages of the chapter not applicable to infants doth not prove that therefore the rest is not , no more than several passages in deut. . applicable onely to the aged , will prove little ones were not taken in to be gods people . answ. it is true , the bringing some passages of the chapter not applicable to infants doth not prove that therefore the rest is not : if i had made such an argument i would give him leave to use his rhetorick of silly insipid arguings . but my arguing is this , the same thing which is expressed , v. . by putting the yoke on the necks of the disciples , is expressed v. . by teaching the brethren , v. . by saying to them it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses , v . by troubling with words , subverting their souls , saying , ye must be circumcised and keep the law , and the same persons which are expressed by disciples , v. . are termed v. . brethren , are said v. . to have their hearts purified by faith , v. . those of the gentiles that were turned to god , v. . brethren of the gentiles ; but these things were not done to infants , nor infants comprehended under these persons , in these places , which express the same thing , and the same person , which is apparent by the narration , peter reprehends the same thing in the same persons , v. . which is related v. , , , . the occasion of his speech was the same fact , the drift of his speech is to condemn the same fact , the determination of the council is against the same practice , the same persons are in all these places spoken of , and this is proved by mr. bs. first argument , who brings v. , , . to prove circumcision to be the yoke , v. . which argument supposeth the same persons and things meant , v. . which are meant , v. , , . but not one of the things said there is applicable to infants . how then can any man imagine that the same act being meant in all the places , it should be meant of the act of circumcision , v. . and not v. , , . and the same persons meant , they should be infants meant , v. . and not v. , , ? is not this to make the same act and the same persons not the same , which is a contradiction ? i know not how men conceive of my intellectuals : but i am still possessed of this to be so good proof , that i should as soon doubt of other common notions as of this , and as soon believe that the moon is made of green cheese , as believe mr. b. affirming that peter meant infants by disciples , acts . . i added further , if the putting on the yoke had been circumcision , it had been to be done not on their necks but elsewhere , the yoke was put not on their flesh , but on their consciences , their souls are said to be subverted , their mindes troubled , v. . not their flesh pained by the putting on the yoke , it was done by words , v. . not by a knife or such like instrument . again , the yoke v. . was such as neither the present jews nor their fathers were able to bear : but circumcision put on infants was tolerable . i argued also that christs doctrine is called his yoke , matth. . . i alleged the testimonies of pisc. sch . on acts . . grot. annot. in acts . . calling it the law and doctrine , that the yoke of bondage , gal. . . is the doctrine or covenant of the law , which genders to bondage , gal. . , . that circumcision is not the yoke without subjection of minde or opinion to it , which are not verified of infants . these things he saith are answered already , but where i know not : if he mean in his argument before , he may see his cannon turned against himself . i said , all the colour mr. b. hath from this text to prove infants disciples , is by conceiving the yoke to note barely and precisely the cutting off a little skin . to this he answers , i must say it is but one of your fictions . did you over hear me talk of such a thing ? cutting that skin is not circumcision , as the word is used for a sacrament . the end , signification , and engagement go into the definition of circumcision . and if from hence you would infer , that it is onely the aged that are capable of signification and engagement , you may strait conclude that no infant was ever circumcised . i reply , it is no fiction of mine , but a truth , whether mr. b. talked or thought of it or no , that all the colour , that is shew of reason mr. b. hath from this text to prove infants disciples , is in taking the yoke for the cutting off a little skin . for his proof is from what was done or endeavored to be done to infants ; but that was onely the cutting the little skin . mr. b. would have the yoke to be actual circumcision , or circumcision as acted , and that was nothing but the cutting off the litle skin . it is true , circumcision in the users is more than the cutting off the little skin , there is the end , signification , and intended engagement , but as infants receive it , as it is acted on infants , the yoke can be no more than the loss of the skin and the soreness following , they neither are taught , nor discern the end , signification or engagement , and circumcision as it includes these is as i say in my antidote circumcision not as acted on infants , but taught persons of years ; nor was it my objection that circumcision as a sacrament was onely the cutting off a little skin , but as it was acted on infants , and the imagined ●oke endeavored to be put on infants acts . . which sure peter never blamed them for , and therefore it is not the yoke there meant . mr. bs. talk of circumcision as a sacrament , and what is the definition of it as a sacrament , as it leades to a dispute about the notion of a word not found in scripture , so being besides the present business , i shall let it pass . lastly i added , that if it were granted that the term [ disciples acts . ] noted infants , then onely male infants , for they onely were to be circumcised , therefore female infants should not be thence proved disciples , nor to be baptized . to this he answers , that is as much as i needed , when my position was that some infants are disciples and to be baptized . i reply , it is not as much as he needed , unless he understood his position onely of some male infants . . saith he , i should hence prove , that if males are disciples , then certainly females , both being church-members till christ , though but one circumcised . i reply , . it is more than he can prove that those who were church-members in the jewish church are disciples of christ in the new testament to be baptized . . if he could prove it , yet not from acts . . it being certain no more can be proved thence to be disciples , than are there called disciples , which mr. b. himself will not say of female infants . i conclude still , that in this arguing of mr. b. i finde nothing but froward , and , i had almost said , impudent wrangling against a plain truth , that the disciples acts . . were onely the brethren converted , and the yoke the doctrine the false teachers would have put upon them , and the reader , of whosoever education or tu●●●age , if he be not otherwise blinded , may perceive with his own eys the slightiness of mr. bs. arguings , and how superficially he hath handled this business . i go on to review the next , which is no better . sect . xiv . infants discipleship is not proved by mr. b. from lev. , . which speaks of the israelites being gods servants . my second argument , saith mr. b. to prove that some infants are disciples , is this , if no infants are disciples , then it is either because they are not capable , or else because god will not shew them such a mercy ; but neither of these can be the cause ; therefore that no infants are disciples is false doctrine . mr. t. to this gave this answer [ that the reason why they are not disciples is because they have not learned . ] answ. it is true , in the dispute at bewdley finding mr. bs. vein of disputing to run upon a captious way of endeavouring to bring me to such absurdities ●n appearance as would stir up passions in hearers against me as lessening gods mercy to their infants , and then aggravating these imagined absurdities , turning to the people with his wonted exclamations , and other rhetorick ( whereby he hath befooled not onely those parts , but a great number of shallow heads throughout the land ) which i found to be his course in his first argument in ch . . now printed to prove his ordinance of visible church-membership of infants unrepealed , with which he began , when he should have first proved such an ordinance and its continuing in force out of scripture , it being an indirect way , though popular and taking , to prove a thing done by god , because we conceive it fit to be done , and having been tired with answering three or four hours his long hypothetical syllogismes , and those somtimes brought to prove an hypothetical proposition , contrary to the use of schools , not allowing me to ask a question for clearing his termes , neither allowing me time to consider of his reasonings , nor at first liberty of repeating , i did thus answer to this argument , hoping though 〈◊〉 vain to reduce him to a proof of infants of discipleship from the notation or use of the word , which is the onely genuine and clear way of proving infants to be disciples ; ordinarily to be baptized , according to the institution matth. . ● . but , alas , saith mr. b. that such an answer should satisfy such a man ! i reply , alas , that such an answer should not satisfy such a man ! is this any third cause saith mr. b. answ. what need any man assigne any cause at all why infants are not disciples , but because the term [ disciple ] agrees not to them ? if mr. b. should prove in like manner infants to be believers , what need the respondent shew any other cause than this , that they have not faith ? so even sith mr. b. himself acknowledgeth the term disciple pag. . to have its denomination from the act of learning , it is a sufficient ▪ yea the most direct and proper way to shew infants not disciples , because they have not the act of learning , which 〈◊〉 . b. should have overthrown if he would have proved , as he should , infants to be disciples . but then he might have been hindered in his vagaries and popular discourses , which with his rhetorical exclamations were that he most minded to use , and been brought to discover his nonsense acception of the word [ disciple . ] but saith he , or is it not evidently reducible to one of the former ? for if their unlearnedness hinder them from being disciples , either it must be because it maketh them or sheweth them uncapable , or because god will not shew the unlearned so great mercy . answ. it is neither because unlearnedness maketh or sheweth them uncapable , nor because god will not shew them that mercy : but because what ever their capacity be , or gods intent toward them , they have not yet that which alone denominates disciples . if his disjunction were good he should prove that capacity of a title , or gods intention of shewing mercy , without actual learning or professing christ , is enough to denominate a person a disciple of christ , which is so manifestly contrary to all the use of the word in the new testament , and to expositors of matth. . . that i am now bold to say , that it is no better than height of impudence after so evident proof to maintain so gross an absurdity . but i am necessitated to follow mr. b. in his vagaries . . if infants , saith mr. b. are capable of being gods servants , then they are capable of being disciples . for as they signify here the same thing and denote the same sort of persons , so there is the same capacity requisite to both : or if you will make a difference , there is more required to a servant than to a disciple . but infants are capable of being gods servants : this is plain ; for the lord god himself doth call them his servants , levit. . . . they are commanded in the year of iubile to let their brother that was sold to them , and his children , depart ; and the reason is added [ for they are my servants ] that infants are here included among [ his children ] cannot be denied or doubted of ( mr. t. began to deny it , but he quickly recalled it ) is not here then direction enough to help us to judg of the minde of god , whether infants are his servants and disciples or no ? doth not god call them his servants himself ? what more should a man expect to warrant him to do so ? men call for plain scripture , and when they have it they will no● receive it ; so hard is it to inform a forestalled minde . it may be some may say , they were then capable of being gods servants , but they are not so now . but this were a wretched answer . for their capacity was the same then and now : infants then were like infants now . answ. it is certain that the term [ servants of god ] is not always equipollent to [ a disciple of christ. ] for jer. . . nebuchadnezzar is called gods servant , and the heavens , psal. . . but then when it is taken in the sense the apostle useth it , rom. . . his servants ye are to whom ye obey , and therefore unless he means by [ servants of god ] men voluntarily obeying the gospel , yea and visibly appearing so to do , i shall deny his consequence , and his dictates , that either acts . . or matth. . . a disciple and a servant of god in his sense signify the same thing , or denote the same sort of persons . and if more be required to a servant than a disciple , it follows that a person may be a disciple and yet not a servant of god , and so the terms are not reciprocal , and his consequence so much the more infirm . as for his minor it is denied , understanding it of capacity of infants while infants in an ordinary way , and of being gods servants in the sense used rom. . in which alone it is equipollent to a disciple . as for the text levit. . , . though it be plain scripture , yet there is nothing plain or obscure in it for mr. bs. purpose , to prove that the infants of believers of the gentiles now are gods servants in a sense equipollent to a disciple , matth. . . for. . the passage is meant onely of hebrews , as exod. . . is expressed , and the text it self shews it . . from v. . where it is said , unto me the children of israel are servants , they are my servants whom i brought out of the land of egypt , in which are two discriminating notes differencing them from others , . that they were the children of israel descended from iacob by natural generation , . that they were brought out of the land of egypt by god. . v. . . do explain it , where god allows them to take bond-slaves of the heathen that were round about them , and of the children of the strangers that did sojourn among them , which is the description of proselytes of the gate , that is , such as acknowledged the god of israel , but did not submit to circumcision , and the observation of moses law , of which sort was cornelius , acts . . such an ones children were not gods servants in the sense there meant . yea , ainsworth in his annot. on v. . citeth maimony resolving that an israelites children begotten on a canaanitish bond-woman are but canaanites in every respect , not gods servants in the sense there meant . . what is said there is said not onely of infants but also of parents , yea though they were idolaters , as those that worshipped the golden calf , or joyned themselves to baal peor , or who hardened their hearts , and could not enter into canaan for unbelief , heb. . , . even the wo●st of them with whom god was not well pleased , which were not true of servants of god in a sense equipollent to a disciple of christ , matth. . . . diodati expresseth in his annot. on lev. . ▪ in what sense they are called gods servants , to wit , in as much as none could get sovereign dominion over them to prejudice his , therefore they are there called gods servants in this respect onely , in that they were to be disposed of not as men would , but as he would , who had right to them by his purchase , in bringing them out of egypt . so that they are called servants of god , in that place , not out of any either voluntary obedience to his precepts , or peculiar right to visible church-membership , but in respect of gods sovereignty over them to dispose of them as hebrews , which was not belonging to believers or their children , or other nations not joyned to the policy of the hebrews . and therefore i still say , mr. b. doth but trifle as a man that superficially looks over a text , when he talks so vainly as he doth of direction enough to help us to judg of gods minde , whether infants are his servants and disciples or no. nor is it tru which he saith , that the capacity is the same then and now . for though infants then were like infants now , yet the judicial laws of moses , and the peculiar condition of the hebrews is not now as then . but he goes on . may i not make this a third argument of it self ? if god call infants his servants , though they can do him no service , then we may call them so too : for we may speak as god doth : but god doth call them so ; therefore we may . answ. the conclusion is granted : he may call hebrew infants gods servants in the sense meant , lev. . . but if he cal the children of gentile-believers servants of god in a sense equipollent to a disciple , matth. . . he must bring better warrant than that text , or else i shall deny it , slighting his vain censure of a forestalled minde , and conceiving rather it verisied of himself . as the man thinketh , so the bell tinketh . again , saith mr. b. if god call infants his servants , though they are uncapable at present of doing him service , then we may call them disciples , though at present they are uncapable of learning . but god doth so call them ; therefore we may , &c. answ. if god call infants his servants according to the apostles description of a servant , rom. . . then i confess infants may be called christs disciples , but not if onely according to the sense of lev. . . mr. b. goes on . hath he a good wit now or a bad minde , that can raise a dust for the darkning of so express and plain a text ? and yet still call for scripture proof ? i will deal faithfully in telling you mr. t. his answer to this ▪ and that upon deliberation , in his sermon after the dispute . . he distinguisheth of servants of god de ●ure & de facto . . between servants actively and passively ; and saith , that here the term servant is meant passively and not actively , that is , such as god useth : and that they are called servants here in no other sense than the heavens and the earth are , psalm . , . they are thy servants ; are they therefore disciples ? ( saith he ) what ridiculous arguing is this ? so mr. t. o what cause have we all to look to the tenderness of our consciences in time , before engagement in a sinfull cause hath benummed them , and made the word of god to be of no force to us ? i know shallow brains are uncapable to discern the weakness of the silliest answer : they go that way as their affection doth byass them : their approbation of an argument or answer is no credit to it . but let any man of a tolerable understanding , and conscience not seared , but weigh-seriously this answer , and i dare warrant he will think it a bad cause that must be underpropt by such palpable abuse of scripture . answ. i loath to take notice of such base insinuations , far unworthy of a christian brother or an ingenuous scholar , but that thereby mr. b. hath more prevailed to hinder the entertainment of the truth i maintain , than by any arguments he hath brought . and were it not that the law of charity forbids me to put the worst construction on things , i see so much as might move me to retort upon himself his insinuations against me , as if i had a bad minde , and a seared conscience , and a bad cause , and that i darken so express and plain a text , and so palpably abuse scripture because of my answer about this text. i will not deny him to have a good wit , nor impute to him a shallow brain , i wish his judgment were as good as his fancy , & that with his quickness of apprehension he had more considerateness in his determinations , and especially about the meaning of scripture ; if it were so , the church of god might have much more benefit by his laboures than it hath , nor would his polemick writings especially , have so many crudities in them as there are . as for this present business i think that intemperate zeal to the cause he thinks good hath so transported him that he shews much want both of ingenuity of spirit , and clearness of understanding , which he hath in other writings , and that however he doth often pretend love to me , yet his gall doth so overflow when ever he speakes of me , that he can neither give aright interpretation of what i do , nor of what i say . but to the matter . i had sayd in my sermon , and in my antidot sect . . that what is sayd levit. . . is nothing to our children , it being spoken peculiarly of hebrew children . to this in his reply pag. . . he tells me . . the iewes infants were infants , and our dispute you know was of the species . answ. the jews infants were infants its true , and so were the canaanites infants , yet not servants of god , as levit. . ▪ is meant . . the dispute was not as it was first mannaged between me and mr. m. nor as it was by mr. bs : first argument borught to an issue , of the species , whether any infants indefinitely or any ones infants whatsoever were to be called disciples of christ and to be baptized , but whether the infants of believers , of whom his meaning is in his first argument , however he make his position , that some infants are to be baptized . . whatever his position were , yet his wordes in his epistle to the people of kederminster were that god saith our children are gods servants , which is palpably false , he saying it of the hebrews children as such ; and not of ours . . saith he , i have proved that our privileges are greater than theirs ( and you deny it not ) and that this was not perculiar to them . answ. if it be granted that our previleges are greater than theirs , yet it is but in some respects , and therefore there is no good argument , if it be confessed god shews more mercy to our children therefore he gives them every such privilege as the jews had . god shews mercy to ministers of the gospel more than to the priests of the jews , yet it follows not , our children must have such privileges of continuance in office , inheritance & c. as they had . that what is sayd levit. . . was peculiar to the hebrews , is so clearly proved , that it hath a shew of impudence to deny it . . saith he , it proves that there is nothing in the age to make them uncapable , or else the jews infants would have been uncapable . answ. it proves that there is nothing in the age to make them uncapable of being gods servants in the sense of levit. . . but it proves not that they are capable of being gods servants ordinarily as the title is used rom. . . and is equipollent to a disciple , matth. . . but saith he , how have the believing jews lost this privilege or proselytes of the gentiles ? answ. . this privilege was belonging to the unbelieving jews while it continued , as well as the believing . . if it be lost ( as i think it is ) it is lost by the dissolving the judicial laws of moses , and the national policy the jews had . but saith he , where you talk of servants in this sense and that sense , they were so servants as to be visible church-menbers , and that is all that i contest for . they were reckoned among moses disciples , and so are ours to be among christs disciples or christians ( as moses disciples also in some sort were christs disciples . ) answ. the sense in which the jews children were called gods servants is not all one with to be visible church-members , nor moses diciples , as is proved above where the genuine sense is shewed . but to the distinctions i used in my sermon and antidote , i deny not that i used both distinctions , and they are usual in schools . the former is used by the author of the new annot . on deut. . . the later is common , in the differencing of active and passive scandal , conversion taken actively and passively , mr. b. himself , p. . distinguisheth of being sanctified actively and passively . but he thinks the application to be a palpable abuse of scripture . for , . he ( meaning me ) saith they were servants of god de jure , but not de facto , in right , out not in deed . but a servant is a relation , that is the form of it , servus est domini servus . and have they onely a right to this relation ? who then or what hindreth them from possessing the relation which they have right to ? is it not god that giveth them right to this relation ? and is not that to give them the relation it self ? i would he would tell us what more he giveth them that have th●● elationo it self de facto , ( for i suppose he dare not interpret it of a future right . ) answ. i said in my sermon as mr. b. hath printed it pag : . that the meaning is not that infants are actually servants , but in right , to me , he doth not speak what they did , but of gods right and interest he had in them : which is so plain a truth that i supposed he could not have sound any matter of exception . but mr. b. is so quarelsome with me that he will either finde or make a knot in a bulrush . . he renders de facto in deed , as if i had said , they had relation of right , but not in deed , that is not in possession : whereas my meaning was plainly exprest , they were not actually servants in respect of what they did , or in respect of the act or fact of service . . he misunderstands it as if i spake of their being servants of right , that they had the right of being gods servants so as to claim it as a privilege on their part , whereas i meant it and expressed it in respect of gods right and interest in them , though i deny not the other to follow . to his questions i answer . they have a right and possession of that relation , and it is given them by god with the relation , and to those that have the relation in fact , or as i spake actually in respect of what they did . god gives this more to them that are his servants by reason of his right in them , that they have actual obedience to him , according to that of the apostle , rom. . . his servants ye are to whom ye obey . . saith mr. b. whether they are servants actively or passively is nothing to the being or form of the relation ; they are servants of god still . and it seems by this answer , that if god had called infants disciples never so oft mr. t. would have put god off with this distinction , and said , they are disciples passively , but not actively . for . what reason can he give why they may not be called disciples in a passive sense as well as servants ? . doth not god bid his apostles baptize those that were disciples without distinguishing ? or doth he bid them baptize active disciples , but not passive ones ? where is that distinction in the command ? answ. mr. b. is so inured to his spitefull language , that my giving him an answer to his objection and clearing the words lev. . . is termed by him putting off god with a distinction , as if i answered god , and not mr. b. but to the matter . . though servants actively and passively may be both called servants , as a slave bought with money , but sick and weak , who never did service actually , may be called his lords servant , because at his dispose , yet not univocally , as they speak in logick , in comparison of him that doth actually service , because he is a servant but in one respect , whereas he that is a servant not onely by being at his lords dispose for his lord to assign what he will for him , because of his propriety in him , but also doth service actively for his lord , is in a double respect a servant , of which the later is that which is principal , and from which the denomination is primarily and principally taken , as the relation of a son is principally from generation , though analogically in some respect an adopted son have that title . . but were it supposed the term did univocally agree to both , yet the question being whether infants be disciples , and the argument being brought from the title of gods servants to prove them disciples , the term [ servants of god ] passively taken for one that doth not voluntarily any service to god , but onely is at gods dispose , is not as much as [ a disciple of christ ] which signifies one that hath learned christ , and professeth himself to follow his teaching . and so it is a clear answer , that infants are not proved to be christs disciples by being proved to be passively gods servants , except they be also proved to be actively such , and that 〈◊〉 obeying the gospel , and professing that obedience . what ever seems to mr. b. ( whose imaginations of me are still to the worst ) if i had found god call once infants disciples in the sense , matth. . . i should quickly have yielded there is no need of such a distinction of active or passive disciple , si●h i finde the title given to none but such as are actual learners , and that is a reason why infants may not be called disciples in a passive sense as well as gods servants . for use is the rule of understanding words , and christ bids us baptize onely disciples that are actual learners , and profess christ their master , as appears both by christs words , mark . . in which he expresseth that by [ he that believeth ] which he did matth. . . by [ a disciple ] and by the practice of the apostles , who best understood christs precept , and by the constant use of the word [ disciple ] in the new testament , as is proved above . nor needs there be any such distinction of active and passive disciple in the command , because the word [ disciple ] is not used passively , though [ servant of god ] be . . saith mr. b. but i shall be bold to take it for one of mr. t. his fictions , and a meer falshood , that infants are here called servants passively onely , till he have done somewhat to prove it ; to which end he hath not spoken one word , as thinking it seems that he spake to men that will take his word . why may they not be called servants from the meer interest of dominion that god hath to them ? and authority over them ? are infants the kings subjects or servants in a passive sense onely ? is it not foundation enough for the relation of a servant , if god will own them so , and number them with his family of meer grace , though he should make no use of them at all ? or if there must be more : may they not be called so , as being destinated to his service for the future ? and so they may have the relation before the service ; which is common with those men that buy children with their parents for their future service . so eccl. . . reade it . answ. how egregiously doth mr. b. trifle , who expects i should prove , who was but the respondent , and that also which is apparent to common sense , that infants are not servants of god actively in obeying his precepts , or as i sayd in my sermon , in freely and voluntarily giving service to god and doing what he 〈…〉 s , who neither know nor hear gods precepts , and looks i should prove what he agrees with me in ! for when i said in●●●ts are servants from gods right and interest in them , though they do no service , mr. b. as if i said no such thing pu●s many importinent questions to me , as if he would by them know my minde in that which i had plainly though more briefly expressed , to wit that the jews infants were gods servants . . of right , because god had a right , propriety or perculiar interest in them , he had purchased them otherwise than he had done other people . . passively , so as that their bodies and liberties were at his dispose , not allowing men to dispose of them , as he did to dispose of others . as for the question may they not be so called as destinated to his service for the future ? i conceive not ; destination to his service for the future doth not either there or any where else that i know , give denomination to a servant as actually such : no● doth i think any thing in the text lead us to such a reason of the denomination , but to that which i have set down . and to his question , are infants the kings subjects or servants in a passive sense onely ? i answer , yes , while they are infants , and should question his intellectuals that should deny it ; and when he cals it my fiction and meer falshood , that infants are here called servants passively only , it seems prejudice against me makes him count that a fiction and falshood in my mouth , which is current enough when it comes from his own pen. but mr. b. is not yet reconciled to me , there 's more anger yet behinde . for thus he speaks . . but the grossest is yet behinde , ( as the worst errour is still at last , and the further a man goes out of his way the further he goes amiss ) would any man think that such a man as mr. t. can possibly believe that infants are called gods servants in no other sense than the heavens and earth are ? answ. may i not take up the poets words , tantaene animis coelestibus irae ? is mr. b. so waspish as to be still humming and buzzing about my ears , and stinging me with his mis-representations . t is true , to shew that the term [ servant of god ] is not equipollent to [ a disciple of christ ] i instanced in ps l. . . where the heaven and the earth are called gods servants in a passive sense , but my words ( as he himself printed them ) are not , infants are called gods servants in no other sense than the heavens a●● earth are : yea i mentioned nebuchadnezzar called gods servant jerem. . . after the allegation of psal. . . and yet if i had said so i know no errour in it , much less gross erour , or grossest of all . but mr. b. asks placet . well! room for mr. b. let me a little reason this case , saith he , . are the heavens onely passive servants of god ? is that good philosophy ? answ. sith mr. b. is either in his reasoning or posing vein , i shall enforce my self with what patience i can to reade his childing lecture , and to answer his questions , though he would not answer mine at the dispute , when he should . to his first and second i answer affirmatively . it is not good philosophy to say , the heavens onely suffer , and act nothing : but it is very good philosophy , and divinity too , that the heavens are onely passive servants of god , when they do gods will , they do it not with consent of will , as when the stormy windes fulfill gods word , psal. . . they do act , but not actively obey god. herod and pontius pilate did what gods counsel determined , acts ▪ , . yet were not active servants of god , but passive , the doing of gods will was besides their intentions so nebuchadnezzar , jer. . . sennacherib , isai . , , . josephs brethren , shimei , absolom , &c. are servants of god in this sense . and in this sense the heavens are gods servants , as mr. b. might have perceived by the joyning the earth with them , which moves not , or rather in this passive sense , because they are at gods disposing . . saith he , what if the earth and infants were both called gods servants onely in a passive sense , because god maketh use of them ? is it therefore in the same sense ? answ. yes . mr. b. is it the same use that god maketh of both ? answ. no , and yet it is the same sense . again , mr. b. what if christ were called gods servant for his suffering ? shall we say it were in no other sense than the earth is so called ? when the use and sufferings are so unlike ? answ. no , for if christ were called gods servant for his suffering , i would call him an active servant of god , not a passive ▪ for though he in his suffering were passive , and divines call it passive obedience , yet he did not obey passively , that is , against his will , or without consent of will , as the earth doth , but actively , out of his free and voluntary intention , and consent of will. be the use and suffering never so unlike , those persons or things may be in the fame sense passive servants of god , whose sufferings or use accomplisheth gods will without their intention , and they active servants in the same sense whose use or sufferings are with intention and consent to accomplish the will of god , though their use or sufferings are much unlike . but he hath not yet done posing or ch●ding me . what if i prove , saith he , ( as me thinks with mr. ● . i might easily do ) that the heavens are gods servants actively , and christ also is called his servant actively ? doth it follow that they are servants in the same sense , when the action is so unlike ? answ. yes , for i never took the identity of sense to presuppose necessarily likeness in the actions . the same sense is when words signifie a like meaning , whatever likeness or unlikeness there be in the actions of the subjects to which the predicate is attributed . and i pity mr. bs. oscitancy that doth not observe such obvious things , but troubles others with such frivolous questions . but yet there are more of these demands to be answered . . saith mr. b. hath not god prevented all these cavils by joyning parents and children together in the same title ? he saith of parents and children both together , they are my servants : where it is evident that both therefore have the same kinde of relation . and will he say that the parents are onely passive servants ? answ. yes , in that place , according to the explication before given ; and i conceive that god hath prevented all mr. bs. cavils against this exposition , even in that he joyns parents and children , ( who can be no other ways servants of god ) together , in the same title ; besides other passages of the text do shew it , as i have alleged above . . saith mr. b. or if all this be not enough , yet look further , where god himself tels you the reason why he cals them his servants , ( who knows better than mr. t. ) they are my servants which i brought out of egypt , &c. gods interest and mercifull choice of them , and separation to himself , is the reason . when god cals us his servants , it oftn●r signifieth the honor and privileges of that relation , which in mercy he cals us to , than any service we do him therein . are the heavens gods servants , because he brought them out of egypt , and separated them to himself as a peculiar people ? answ. mr. b. is a strange man , most shamefully dealing with me , who suggests to the world of me as if i took no notice of that in the text , which in my sermon as it is printed by himself , pag. . was observed in the first place with advice to my hearers to mark it , and urged it to that end that i might shew this was peculiar to the hebrew children , and therefore impertinently brought by mr. b. to prove our infants gods servants as there it is meant much less as [ god 's servants ] is a term equipollent to [ a disciple matth. . . ] all which he seems not to take notice of , but in stead thereof after a dictate or two without proof , he puts to me this frivolous question , are the heavens gods servants because he brought them out of egypt , and separated them to himself as a peculiar people ? to which i answer no , but what then ? cannot therefore the heavens be said to be gods servants passively , that is , at gods dispose , because they were not brought out of egypt as the infants , levit. . . ? the reason is given there in respect of the subject , why they were gods servants when other people were not , not on the part of the predicate , as if none were servants but they that were brought out of egypt . nebuchadnezzar is called gods servant , jer. . . for going into egypt there executing gods will on the egyptians ; though he had no intention of doing any thing for god. . saith mr. b. yet if all this be not enough , he that will see may be convinced from this . the jews and their infants are called gods servants in a sense peculiar as chosen and separated from all other : the gentiles at age were not so gods servants as the jews infants were . if god call these infants his servants in no other sense than the heavens and the earth , then it seems in the year of jubilee men must release the earth from its service to them : but mr. t. knows that even the gentile servants that were actively so were not to be released in the year of jubilee : and therefore the jews and their infants are called gods servants in another sense than the heavens or the heathens either ; even as the chosen separated people of god and members of his family . or else how could it be a reason for releasing them in the year of jubilee any more than for releasing any other ? but no scripture can be so plain , but a man that hath a minde so disposed may finde some words of contradiction . answ. it is true , and mr. bs. cavils about this text apparently preve it . but this with all the rest is not enough to convince me that the infants of the jews are called gods servants actively , as the term [ gods servant ] is equipollent to [ a disciple matth. . . ] though i would see it , yet i cannot , no not by mr. bs. spectacles , even by this last reason . i confess that the jews infants were gods servants in a peculiar manner , other than the gentiles at years , yea though godly , as cornelius , acts . . that god for this reason required their release from bondage at the jubilee , and yet why it should follow , that if the earth be called gods servant passively , as the jews infants , it must be released by men from service at the year of jubilee , i see not . if it were formed into an argument , it would rest on this or the like proposition , they to whom the same thing is predicated , in the same sense must have all other things predicated on them alike : which is so absurd a thing , that me thinks mr. b. should disclaim it , and yet his reason turns on that hinge . to shew its absurdity , magistrates are called gods , jehovah is called god in one sense in respect of rule , else the term [ god ] should signifie nothing common to both . doth it therefore follow that what is said of magistrates must be said of jehovah , that he must dy like men , or else the term [ god ] cannot predicate on both in the same sense in which [ god ] is taken for one that rules ? this and such like mistakes of mr. b. even then when he runs with full curreer shew his heedlesness , and overliness in handling controversies , which require a man of more insight in the meaning of the scripture , and more circumspect in observing the consequents on his sayings and reasonings than i finde him . but i follow him , not doubting to overtake him in long tunning , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sect . xv. that infants are not proved to be christs disciples , from being subjects to christ , christians , belonging to christ , luke . , . matth. . . mark . . the sum of the next argument is , infants are capable of being subjects of chrsts kingdom , therefore of being his disciples . the reason of the consequence is , that christs church is as properly called his kingdom as his school , all subjects of christ in his visible kingdom are christians , all christians disciples , according to acts . . infants are capable of being subjects in any kingdom on earth , nothing can be shewed to prove them uncapable , they were actually subjects of christs kingdom before his coming in the flesh . to all which i answer , it s enough to deny the consequence sith infants may be subjects which imports onely somthing passive , whereas [ disciple ] imports action , which agrees not to infants . but i distinguish , subjects of christs kingdom may be so called from active or passive subjection , visibly or invisibly , by extraordinary or ordinary operation . i deny infants to be subjects of christs kingdom actively , visibly , by ordinary operation through preaching the word in which sense alone the term [ subject of christs kingdom ] is equipollent to [ a disciple matth. . . ] and in which sense alone the consequence is true . though in common speech arising from the fond conceit as if baby-sprinkling made them christians , infants are called christians , yet in scripture none are called christians till they believe . christiani non naseu●●ur sed fiunt . our infants are children of christians , but not themselves christians till they beleive in christ. acts . . is so far from proving infants called christians , or disciples , that both v. . & . prove the contrary , as was shewed above . though infants be reckoned as parts of human kingdoms , yet it follows not they are parts of christs visible kingdom or church . for then natural fools , yea the mostungodly professed unbelievers , must be subjects of christs visible kingdom or church , because such are subjects of human kingdoms . i have seen ephes. . . and see nothing there for mr. bs. purpose , but against him , there being no subjection there meant but what is willing , which infants have not , except by extraordinary operation unknown . infants whether of believers or unbelievers are capable of being christs subjects passively , or actively by extraordinary secret invisible , and unknown operation , but not actively , visibly by ordinary means for want of the use of reason . this consequence will never be proved by mr. b. infants were members of the jewish church , therefore visible church members of the christian church . to this argument , infants were disciples in the jewish church , ergo , god will shew the like mercy now , i answer by denying his antecedent , which he would prove from john . . we are moses disciples in opposition to jesus disciples , but infants were moses his disciples . this proposition i deny , and mr. b. hath brought nothing to prove it . the text mentions none as moses disciples but persons of years , and therefore there 's no need of further answer to his argument . . my third argument saith mr. b. to prove some infants are disciples , is this from christs own words . if christ would have some children received as disciples , then they are disciples ; but christ would have some such received as disciples ; therefore some such are disciples . all the question is of the antecedent and that is plain in luke . , . compared which matth. . . and mark . . he that receiveth this childe in my name receiveth me . here observe . . it was the childe himself that christ would have received . . he would have him received [ in his name ] now that can mean no less than as a disciple : when they are baptized it is into his name : and that which in luke is called [ receiving in christs name ] is expressed in mark [ one that belongeth to christ ] and in matthew [ in the name of a disciple ] though some of these places speak of infants , some of others : yet compared , they plainly tell you this ; that to receive [ in christs name ] and [ as belonging to christ ] and [ as a disciple of christ ] in christs language is all one , for they plainly express the same thing intended in all . so that christ hath encouraged me to receive children [ in his name ] luke . . and he expoundeth it to me , that this is to receive them [ as belonging ] to him , and as [ disciples ] i know some frivolous answers are made to this : but they are not worth the standing on . mr. blakes argument hence remaineth as good as unanswered . answ. what mr. blake alleged in his birth privilege , p. : about these texts was answered in my examen , pag. . and what he replied in his answer to my letter , cap. . sect . . was refelled in my postscript , pag. , , all which i have reviewed with what mr. blake refers to in his repulse of mr. blackwood , pag. , , , , . and do not finde wherein my answer in my postscript is deficient , and therefore see no reason to be moved by mr. bs. vain talk that mr. blakes argument hence remains as good as unanswered , and do conceive it more abundantly answered than such a far-fetch'd argument deserved . yet mr. b. brings it again into the field , and mr. blake vindic. foederis , pag. . says , he will forbear to make any rejoynder to the reply of my apology , pag. . because mr. b. hath here done it for him . now what saith mr. b. he saith , i know some frrivolous answers are made to this ; but they are not worth the standing on . to which i reply , if the answers be more frivolous than the argument they are not indeed worth standing on . but let us see what kinde of argument it is . . mr. b. should have concluded that some infants are disciples , and he concludes that some children are disciples , or else he means by [ some such ] in the minor and conclusion others than by [ some children ] in the major , now some infants and some children are not all one . . the phrase in the middle term [ received as disciples ] may be understood two ways , . thus , that christ would have them received as being disciples , and in this sense i grant the consequence , but deny the minor , understood of some infants . . that he would have them received with such tenderness and love as is given to disciples , though they be not disciples . and in this sense i might grant the minor , and deny the consequence of the major , though i think the minor is not true in that sense . and to mr. bs. proof of this , i say , . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . doth not note an infant always . for jairus his daughter though twelve years old , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a little childe , mark . ▪ . and yet that age might be a patern of humility , seldom are children of that age ambitious , though they be impatient . and that the little childe matth. . . was not an infant but a person of some years , is made probable , in that christ is said to call him , and to set him , or make him stand in the midst of them . . beza saith , perhaps it should be read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such a little childe . so the syriack interpreter reades , and it is very probable by comparing it with matth. . . where the words of christ are related , and there it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one such little childe , and mark . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one of such children . . but if the reading be allowed as the copies now have it , yet it is not unusual that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this ] is all one with [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such ] as on the other side 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is cor. . . all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so in the same chapter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . is not meant of one particular person , but of one so qualified , and in like manner tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from these turn away , that is , as our translators well render it , from such turn away , and v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is rendered [ of this sort ] there are more of the like , thess. . . john . john . . luke . , , , &c. so grotius in luc. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ut apud matthaeum , quomodo & hic syrus interpretatur . and this may be confirmed by reason thus , if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , luke . . must be expounded of this little childe , then the speech of christ is to be understood onely of that one individual little childe and no other , for in that sense it is a pronoun demonstrative , and so notes a demonstrative individual , as logicians speak , and so it shall note not onely the childe himself , as mr. b. observes , but even that particular little childe then present , and it would onely import a privilege appropriate to that little childe , and agreeing to no other , whereas the sense is manifest from the words there , and other places , matth. . . luke . . john . . to be this , whosoever shall receive any one that comes in my name , though he be as mean and as inconsiderable as this little childe , receiveth me ; and therefore it is added presently , for he that is least among you all , the same shall be great , which shews that by [ this ] or [ such a little childe ] he meant the apostles , whosoever receiveth any of you , though as mean as this little childe , or such a little childe , receiveth me . . there are sundry things in the text , and in parallel places , which do evince , that the receiving the little childe , neither is nor can be meant of a little childe in respect of age , much less an infant . as , . that it is supposed that the little childe here meant may be received in christs name , but that agrees not with the meaning of the speech as there is meant to understand it of a little childe in age . for receiving in christs name presupposeth coming in christs name , as john . . john . &c. that is either professing christs name or preaching or acting in christs name . and that this is presupposed here , luke . . appears partly by the phrase receiveth him that sent him , which intimateth this to be the force of the speech , he that receiveth one such little childe sent by me receiveth me , and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me , and partly from the very next v. . where john is said to answer and say taking occasion , as it seems by the relation from christs words , master we saw one casting out devils in thy name , which words intimate that he understood ▪ receiving in christs name to be meant of one acting or speaking in christs name , and thus is the phrase [ in my name , in the name of the lord ] often used matth. ▪ . & . . & . & . . which thing is more fully confirmed by mr. bs. parallel place . mark . , . it is plain that mark sets down christs words upon the same occasion of their contention for preheminence which luke doth , and the same words v. . and there expresseth it , whosoever shall receive one of such little ones in my name , which cannot be meant of that little one then set before them , but of his apostles and others who should be as mean as such a little one , and v. . expounds [ in my name ] of acting in my name , and v. . whosoever shall give you a cup of cold water in my name because ye are christs , that is , ye are sent by christ , or act for christ , which shews v. . to be meant of the apostles not little children in age , but such as did act for christ though mean as little children . the same may be proved from matth. . , , . . again , the receiving of the little childe proves it is not meant of a little childe in age . for what is the receiving ? it is , . by hearing luke . . . by entertaining upon travayl , as luke . , . they did not receive him by making ready for him , and mark . . by giving a cup of cold water , which was no small kindness to a travailer in those dry and hot countreys . but what kindness had this been to a little childe in age as an infant , that travayls not ? on the contrary , not receiving is expressed matth. . . mark . . by not entertaining them into their house nor hearing their words . so the new annot. on matth. . . [ he that receiveth you ] luke . . john . . that heareth your doctrine willingly , and entertaineth you , which receiving agrees not to infants , nor any other receiving mentioned in the gospels that hath such a blessing assured to it as here . . the reward annexed , to wit , the receiving of christ shews the receiving of a little one in christs name , to be another thing than the receiving of a little infant in christs name , that is , after mr. bs. silly conceit , the receiving into the visible church by baptizing it . for then the greatest blessing , that is , of receiving christ and his father should be annexed to so poor a thing as may be done by every poor presbyter , or curate , how ill mannerd soever he be ; the baptizing , that is , as now it s used and defended , the sprinkling of a little holy water on an infant . . it appears that a little infant is not meant luke . . from the description of the little childe there meant . for mr. b. himself compares that speech in luke with the like , matth. . . now such a little childe matth. . . is expressed v. . one of these little ones which believe in me , ( not as mr. cobbet in his just vindication , pag. . fondly conceives without any other author that ever i heard of besides himself , one of those little ones , who are the little ones of them that believe in me . for then it should be either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or some such supply , and it would be ridiculous to imagine the scandalizing to be of infants , the penalty of which is ●eavier than to have a milstone tied about the neck , and to be cast into the sea , that little infants are those not to be despised , whose angels behold the face of christs father , v. . the little ones matth. . . are called christs brethren , matth. . . answering to them that believe ) and v. . one that becomes as a little childe , v. . one that humbles himself as this little childe , which it is meer dotage to expound of little infants . again mr. b. referrs to matth. . . and there the little childe received is a prophet , and a righteous man. hereto i add the expressions of many writers . piscator ( to whom mr. blake refers ) analys . luc. . . innuit amorem suum ●rga demissos animo in exemplo pueruli praesentis . schol. in matth. . . propter nomen meum , propterea quod in me credit , beza annot . in matth. . . puerulum talem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , quempiam ita se demi●t●ntem ut puerum referat : nec enim propriè de pueris agit . par●●s in matth. . . dicit , qui susceperit unum ex parv●lis talibus , hoc est , unum ex vobis pueri instar humiliatum . diodati on matth. . . [ one such ] namely , a true christian that shall have layd aside all worldly pride , whereby he is become abject in the sight of the world . new annot. in matth. . . [ one of these little ones ] who newly made profession of religion : on matth . . one like such a childe in the qualities before mentioned . mr. b. himself confesseth that some of these places speak of infants some of others : yet saith ●e , compared they plainly tell you this ; that to receive [ in christs name ] and [ as belonging to christ ] and [ as a disciple of christ ] in christs language is all one ; for they plainly express the same thing intended in all . from whence i infer , that if the same thing be intended in all , and all express the same thing , then is no other thing intended or expressed , luke . . than what is expressed and intended matth. . . mark . . matth. . . and then , it is certain that luke . . is not meant of a little infant in age , nor the receiving such as agrees to such an infant , sith it is certain that matth. . . marke . matth. . . are not understood of either of these , and it follows upon mr. bs. confession that some of these texts speak not of infants , that none of them speak of infants , sith they all express and intend the same thing ; and thus mr. bs. own observation refu●es himself . but saith he , when they are baptized it is into his name . answ. mr. b. it seems would have this the sense : whosoever receiveth to baptism in my name one little childe receiveth me to baptism , which should imply it to be a gratefull office to receive him to baptism , and the offending matth. . . and despising v. . should be not admitting to baptism , and when it is sayd [ whosoever ] shall receive one such little one , it would imply it to be a gratefull work for any person though no minister to receive to baptism , and an ungrateful work for any to refuse to baptize . i grant that in the places named to be such a little one , matth. . . to belong to christ , mark . . to be a disciple of christ , matth. . note the same sort of persons , yet i deny that proposition , which is the hinge of mr. bs. proof , [ every one that belongs to christ is a disciple of christ ] for the holy angels , those yet uncalled whom his father hath given him , john . . belong to christ , and yet are not to be called disciples of christ. and therefore i infer , that mr. b. hath no encouragement from christs exposition of these texts to account infants disciples , and what he collects in his own fancy without the text is frivolous and self contradicting , so little worth the standing on , that for my part i think this sheet of his book , what ever be said of the rest , worth no more than a sheet that is made thur is piperisque ●ucullus , yet he cannot forbear but must add more of this frivolous stuff . in answer to this objection , infants cannot learn , and therefore cannot be disciples , he adds thus much more . . they can partake of the protection and provision of their master ( as the children of those that the israelites bought ) and enjoy the privileges of the family and school , and be under his charge and dominion , and that is enough to make them capable of being disciples . answ. what privileges of christs family and school , infants enjoy , i know not , what ever they be what ever protection , provision , rule , care is for them , yet this is not enough to make them disciples , as christ meant , mat. . . till they have learnt , or profess learning of this lesson , that jesus is the christ ; all that is said here of children may be said of slaves bought with money , they are all then with him disciples of christ , though professed infidels . . they are , saith he , devoted to learning , if they live : however they are consecrated to him as their master , who can teach them hereafter , and that is yet more . answ. i may add , they may cry , as cyprian , and his sixty six bishops alleged for their baptism , and suck , and smile , and play with the mother , and that is more than this , but neither the one nor the other any thing to the denomination of a disciple of christ. . saith he , i wonder you should be more rigorous with christ in this case than you are with men . is it not common to call the whole nation of the turks both old and young by the name of mahometans , or disciples of mahomet ? answ. what a pretty passage is this to set out a man as rigorous with christ , who expounds his words matth. . . according to his constant language in all the evangelists , because he allows not infants to be called disciples , as if christ forsooth did plead for infants discipleship , and i were so stiff , as that i would not yield to him . but he thinks i will allow mahometans children to be called mahomets disciples , for it is the common use , and why not then we and our children by the name of christians and disciples of christ. answ. i confess i think the common use now is to call the turks young and old mahometans , and in chorographical relations , english , french , &c. are called christian nations , old and young , termed christians : but neither do i finde the common use to be to call infants either mahomets or christs disciples , nor if i did , should this sway me at all to allow infants discipleship according to matth. . . till scripture use of the term [ disciple ] applicable to that sense can be shewed . but mr. b. hath more of this childish arguing . and when a man hired a philosopher to teach him and all his children , were they not all then disciples of that philosopher ? they are entered under him as their master for future teaching , are at present in the relation of disciples . answ. it is no such strange thing to hear of a physician taking a stipend to cure a man and all his children , but to hear of a philosopher hired to teach a man , and all his children , even his infant children , and counting them disciples , and entering them under him as their master , is so strange to me that it seems to me somewhat like a tale of a man of gotham . yet if there were any such thing acted by wise men in sober sadness , it is nothing to prove infants disciples in christs or his apostles language . but the prettiest part of this comedy or poppet play of mr. b. is yet behinde . . saith he . and truly i wonder also that it should go so currant that infants are not capable of learning , the mother is a preacher to the infant , partly by her action and gesture and partly by voice . answ. and why not by smiles , and kisses and whipping ? but what then ? they can dishearten and take off from vices and teach them obedience . answ. t is true they can still them from crying : but how they can take them off from vices and teach them obedience to gods command i am yet to learn , it may be nurses may better inform me than mr. b. me thinks saith he , we should not make an infant less docible than some brutes . what doth mr. b. mean by this ? doth he think they that deny infants to be disciples allow brutes to be disciples ? a parret i think will sooner learn some words of christs than an infant , yet i think neither learn any thing of the doctrine of christ till they understand it . but i am referred to nurses , who he saith , will tell me more in this than he can , it may be so ; yet sure nothing to shew that any have made their infants learn the doctrine of christ. he adds . and what if they cannot at first learn to know christ ? even with men of years that is not the first lesson : if they may be taught any of the duty of a rational creature it is somewhat . answ. if they do not learn to know christ they learn not that which should make them disciples of christ. it is somewhat indeed that they can learn to kiss the mother , stroke her breasts , &c. but what 's this to make them disciples of christ ? and if they can learn nothing of the parents either by action or voyce ; yet christ hath other ways of teaching than by men even by the immediate working of his spirit . answ. 't is true , and he may make infants disciples , nor do i deny it to be done invisibly , but it would be a greater wonder than yet mr. b. hath had for all his wonderments , a very prodigy that any of them should become a visible disciple . 't is true they may learn something of god very young and are to be bred up in the nurture of the lord. but that in their infancy at two or three dayes old they are learners of the things of god , of the admonition of the lord from mothers and nurses is a fiction like galilaeus his new world in the moon , or copernicus his circumgyration of the earth . mr. b. tels us he might argue further , all that are saved are christs disciples , some infants are saved , ergo. and i might answer him , that they may be saved , and yet no visible disciples according to the meaning of christ matth. . but sith he hath put this off to another time i shall take a little breathing from mr. b. and set him aside a little while till i have heard what his seniors say further for their baby-baptism . sect . xvi . dr. featley and mr. stephens arguings from john . . for infant-baptism are answer●d , and baptism shewed not be a cause of regeneration , and mr. cranfords words considered . there are some other texts brough● to prove an institution of infant-baptism out of the new testament which i shall take in though the assembly and the chiefest i have to do with in this controversie do omit them . the ancients were wont to allege joh. . . to prove infants are to be baptized after christs appointment , or rather the reasonableness and necessity of the churches appointment . augustine in his writings often joyns rom. . , and john . . as the reason of infant baptism lumb . sent. . dist. . allegeth some as making the institution of baptism to be john . . the papists commonly allege john . . for the necessity of infant-baptism , becan . manual . l. . c. . mandatum habemus , joan. . . they are refuted by the protestants , as chamier tom . . l. . de bapt . c. . yet vossius thes . th. de paedobapt . thes . . brings it , to which being in latin i have answered in latin in my refutation of dr. savage his supposition , though contrary to my expectation not yet printed , dr. featley in his dipper dipt , p. . . makes it one of his prime arguments for infant-baptism , p. . he thus argues . if none can enter into the kingdom of god but those that are born of water and the spirit ; that is , those that are baptized with water and regenerated by the spirit , then there is a necessity of baptizing children , or else they cannot enter into the kingdom of god , ( that is ordinarily ) for we must not tie god to outward means . but the former is true . ergo , the latter . and pag. . none ought to exclude the children of the faithfull out of the kingdom of heaven . but by denying them baptism ( as much as in us lieth ) we exclude them out of the kingdom of heaven ▪ for as christ affirmed to nicodemus , and confirmed it with a double oath or most vehement asseveration , amen , amen ; or verily , verily ( i say unto thee ) except a man he born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven , ergo , we ought not to deny them baptism . answ. this arguing is the same in effect notwithstanding the doctors mincing it ( which is but a little ) with that which the papists bring for their horrid tenet of exclusion out of the kingdom of heaven of infants dying unbaptized . for he holds that there is a necessity of baptizing children or else they cannot enter into the kingdom of god ordinarily . in which assertion he denies any infants enterance into the kingdom of god ordinarily without water-baptism . and no more is said as i conceive by the more moderate papists , such as biel , cajetan , gerson , cited by perkins in his preparative to the demonstration of the probleme . but no marvail the doctor ; who was addicted to the common prayer book , concurred thus far with the papists : for in it the doctrine of augustin , and others is retained , of asserting the necessity of infant-baptism because of original sin and christs words , ioh. . . as appears by the preface appointed to be used before the solemnity of baptism . but protestant divines do generally refute this opinion , as e. g. chamier panstr . cath. tom . . l. . de bapt. c. . &c. teaching that infants of believers are ordinarily holy , and admitted into the kingdom of heaven , though dying unbaptized ? but to answer his arguments , . it 's known that calvin , piscator , and many more do take [ water ] metaphorically , and the conjunction [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and ] to be exegetical not coupling differing things , but expounding what is meant by [ water ] as if he had said , that water which is the spirit , as when it is said mat. . . he shall baptize with you the holy ghost and with fire , that is , with the holy ghost , which is as fire . and this they conceive as necessary , that the speech of christ may be verified . for simply understood it is false , sith the thief on the cross , sundry martyrs and others have entered into the kingdom of heaven unbaptized . and this exposition chamier panstrat . cath. tom . . lib. . cap. . hath taken upon him to maintain against the opposites to it , and if true the objection of dr. featley fals , which rests on this , that there a necessity of water-baptism is imposed on all that shall enter into the kingdom of god. nevertheless i confess my self unsatisfied in this exposition . ▪ because i do not think that matth. . . by [ fire ] is meant the holy ghost as being like fire in his operation on every sanctified person : but that the words are an express prophesie of what christ also foretold , acts . . and was accomplished at pentecost , acts . . when the holy ghost filled them , and fiery cloven tongues sate upon each of them . . because if it were parallel to that place , and [ water ] were used metaphorically , ( as is said by them ) and exegetically added [ water ] should be after , and [ spirit ] before , as matth. . . [ spirit ] is first , and [ fire ] after , and after the usual manner of speaking , it should run thus , except a man be born of the spirit and water , if it were to be expounded of the spirit which is as water . dr. homes animadv . on my exercit : pag. . allegeth bullinger , saying , omnes penè de baptismo , ioh. . . interpretantur , to which he adjoyns bullingers , and his own consent . ▪ for these reasons i am much inclined to expound it of the element of water . yet , . am very apt to conceive , that forasmuch as mr. selden de jurenat . & gent. juxta discipl . heb. lib. . cap. . tels us that when the iews did initiate proselytes by baptizing them with water , they called it regenerating , and that christ , when he taunts nicodemus with dulness in being a master in israel , and yet not knowing of regeneration , but by imagining a natural new-birth , when regeneration was frequent in baptizing proselytes among the iews , insomuch that by it they taught a person lost his natural relations of kinred as he shews , lib. . c. . and hath these words in the place above cited , [ tamet si de eâ quae spiritu fit non solùm aquâ loqueretur christus ] our saviour meant baptism of water , not according to his apostles practice , but the iews , and that the sense is this , except a man be born of water , and of the spirit , that is , except a man be not onely born again by water , as ye pharisees regenerate , when ye make proselytes , but also by the spirit , as i do beget again he cannot enter into the kingdom of god , although he may enter into the common-wealth or policy of israel : which sense nevertheless doth not assert a necessity of their water-regeneration , but onely of christs spiritual regeneration , and the insufficiency of the other by it self , which is so much the more probable , because i finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , and for but , motth . . . & . . acts . . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . seems to answer to [ not onely but also ] yet because i finde not a place every way parallel , i onely propound it to be examined . but . it being granted that it is meant of christs water-baptism , yet papists themselves make not such a necessity of it as is without limitation and exception , and therefore they put in some one , some another restriction , which chamier in the place alleged reduceth to four : . unless the person be baptized either with the baptism of water , or some other thing instead of it , as the baptism of bloud and spirit . . if they may be baptized , and they despise it . . if they be not baptized with that regeneration which is by water , though it may be otherwise also . . if they be neither baptized in deed nor desire . why may not then this limitation be added , except a man be born again of water , that is , except such a person of whom baptism is required , according to my institution , be born of water , when he may have it , and it s cleared to him to be his duty , he cannot enter into the kingdom of god. and indeed this and such like speeches mark . . iohn . , ● , &c. that require faith as well as baptism , are to be understood of persons to whom the gospel is preached , and do or may hear it , and speak not of infants , whom we finde not that god enters into the kingdom of heaven any other way than by his invisible election and operation of his spirit . and it is observable , that whereas iohn . . our saviour joyns water and spirit as means of regeneration , yet v. . he names onely the spirit , omitting water ; whence may be gathered , that water is not of such universal unrestrained necessity , that in no case a person is not born again without it , nor admissible into the kingdom of god , yet such as is necessary ordinarily to those to whom the gospel is preached , and their duty made known . whence in answer to the doctors argument i say , that his speeches are to be thus limited at least , none can enter into the kingdom of god ordinarily without baptism , to wit , of those to whom the gospel is preached , their duty made known , and baptism may be had ; and to his later argument i answer , by denying that children are excluded out of the kingdom of heaven by denying them baptism , sith those unbaptized persons onely are excluded who are appointed to be baptized , to whom the gospel is preached , the duty of baptism made known , and they may have it administred to them , which cannot be said of infants . mr. nathaniel stephens in his book intituled , a precept for the baptism of infants out of the new testament , having premised some thing about the text , iohn . . pag. , , , , . about the necessity of baptism of water , and the efficacy of it , in which many things are meerly dictated , and very slightly handled , he would infer pag. , &c. a precept for infant-baptism from iohn . . because infants are guilty of original sin , where the disease is there is need of the remedy , when christ doth press a necessity of washing both by water and the spirit , he doth not this so immediately in reference to actual sin , as in reference to birth-sin , and to the natural pollution in which infants are born . the same is the plea of mr. thomas fuller in his infants advocate , c. . answ. that either baptism of water or circumcision are made the remedy of original sin is more than i finde in scripture , though it go as currant among many of former and later times . it is true our lord christ saith , except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of god , john . . and he assigns this as a reason thereof , v. . that which is born of the flesh is flesh , but that either thereby he intended to make baptism as the remedy of sin , or of original sin rather than actual is more than appears , for though our lord christ v. . make regeneration to be by water and spirit yet i conceive regeneration is by the spirit onely as the cause , by baptism of water onely as the sign , whereby the person baptized testifies that he is born again by the spirit . now a remedy is a cause and not a sign onely : no man calls that which is onely a sign of cure a remedy , but that which doth operate for healing . that baptism of water is not the cause of regeneration appears . . because v. . our saviour giving the reason of the necessity of regeneration and the effect of regeneration , leaves ou● [ water ] and mentions onely [ the spirit ] . because the person baptized is supposed to be born again , to be a repenting and believing person afore he is baptized : but if baptism were the cause it should be before regeneration , ( for the cause is before the effect ) and so men should be baptized afore they are believers , or repenting persons , which is absurd , and contrary to the scripture , mark . . acts . . &c. and contrary to the order of christ that persons should be made disciples afore they were baptized matth. . . because it is altogether inexplicable how the use of water can be a cause either principal or instrumental to work a new birth or inward change on the soul ; if it be sayd , that it is by virtue of gods promise , it is meet that promise should be shewed , that at , by or upon the use of baptism , god hath promised to regenerate persons . that it is a sign of regeneration will not be i suppose denyed ; for it is made the sign of repentance ( which is all one with regeneration ) and therefore called the baptism of repentance acts . . because as beza on v. . baptism was symbolum resipiscentiae , the token of repentance . and so in like manner it was the sign of faith , and therefore the apostle gal. . . saith , that as many as were baptized into christ had put on christ , that is , had by the sign of baptism testified their putting on christ by faith . and in this sense it is termed the washing of regeneration ( if baptism be meant by it ) tit. . . because by that washing the person baptized testifies his regeneration . and rom. . . we are buried with him by baptism into death , that is , we by being under water testifie our dying to sin conformably to christs death and burial . and in this sense paul is bid acts . . to wash away his sins , that is , by baptism to testifie his purging from his sins . and so christ is said to sanctifie and cleanse his church with washing of water , ephes. . . that is , as beza annot , in locum , as representing what he entirely doth effect within . mr. iames cranford in his epistle to mr. thomas bedford printed at the end of the friendly accommodation between mr. bedford and mr. baxter , saith , that he conceives the ground of anabaptism to have been the erroneous doctrine de nudis signis , in which he is more confirmed by what i answered once to an argument drawn by him from ephes. . from the efficacy of baptism to inforce the baptizing of infants , that if that tenent could be clearly proved , i would no longer oppose that practice . concerning which i say , i remember not all that passed from me in the dispute he mentions , i did think that which i put down in my exerci● ▪ sect . . had been his argument . but this i still say , that could it be clearly proved that christ ever appointed baptism of water taken severedly from the preaching of the word to be the cause of regeneration , or that god had assured that by outward baptism with water he would confer regenerating grace to an infant , i should not oppose the practice of paedobaptism . what mr. bedford hath produced for the efficacy of baptism , hath been answered by mr. baxter in his appendix to his plain scripture , &c. nor doth it appear to me that mr. b. is of his minde , notwithstanding what letters have past between them now printed , and the syncretism yielded to in the printing of the friendly accommodation , and leaving out the appendix . dr. burges his treatise of baptismal regeneration , hath been freely censured by many . dr. ieremiah taylour in his discourse of baptism hath like an orator rather than a disputant pleaded for infant-baptism from the efficacy of baptism , more from speeches of the fathers than from the scripture . sure i am , baptism was appointed by christ , and used in the examples of the scripture , as a testimony of repentance , of faith in christ , no cause of either . and therefore i deny baptism to be the remedy of original sin , or the cause of regeneration , or that christ intended to assign the use to baptism to heal original sin , or to testifie the freedom from it without actual . these things have been delivered by augustine , and taught by the romanists and lutherans , but by many other protestants disclaimed and refuted ; and therefore mr. stephens , mr. cranford , mr. bedford , &c. in using this argument do but symbolize with the papists , and revive what many protestants of best note have exploded . sect . xvii , the . chapter of mr. bs. plain scripture proof , &c. is answered , and mark . , , , . is shewed to make nothing for infants visible church-membership and baptism , and his description of visible church-membership is considered , and his argument from deut. . shewed to be insufficient . there are yet some other texts which are brought by paedobaptists out of the new testament , for an institution and practice of infant-baptism . mr. b. plain scripture proof of infant-baptism , part . . cap. . brings mark . , . to prove that , christ hath expresly assured us that he hath not repealed the privilege of infants visible church-membership , and upon it fals to his rhetorick , and tels us of his boldness in adventuring on this rule . all which i judg frivolous ; nor needs it any further answer , there being no new argument , and what he before spake of that scripture is answered before sect. . where it is shewed that mark . . by [ little childe ] is not meant one that is so in respect of age , but in respect of quality , and that the receiving is not meant of baptism , but entertainment in receiving the doctrine brought , and shewing kindness to their persons . but he adds , and it is not once but oft that he hath thus manifested his will : in the very next chapter he doth it more fully yet , mark . , , . and they brought young children to him that he should touch them ; and his disciples rebuked those that brought them : but when jesus saw it , he was much displeased , and said to them , suffer ye little children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the kingdom of god. verily i say unto you , whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little childe he shall not enter therein : and he took them up in his arms , put his hands on them , and blessed them . and is not here enough to satisfie us yet , that he doth not cast all infants in the world out of his visible kingdom or church ? but that it is his will they should be admitted ? will any say that it was not infants in the former text and this that christ speaks of ? did he take any but infants into his arms ? was it not plainly them that he did bid them receive ( in the former chapter ) and was it not them that he would not have to be kept from him ? and was it not them that he bid should be suffered to come ( that is to be brought ) and was it not them that he blessed ? answ. mr. m. in his sermon had alleged this tex to prove , that the infants of believers even while they are infants do receive the inward grace as well as grown men . i answered , . it is doubtfull whether those little children mark . . were infants . . whether it be said of them , is the kingdom of heaven . . whether they were believers infants . . whether the kingdom of heaven be said to be of them in their present estate or their future . . the reason why of them is the kingdom of heaven may be referred to christs blessing , not to their parents faith . that christs action in this was proper to him , as the great prophet , and extraordinary , and therefore not fit to make a constant rule for an ordinance , and if it be to that use it is more apposite to establish confirmation than baptism , sith christ did neither baptize , nor appoint them to be baptized , though he said of them is the kingdom of heaven . in all likelihood , if infant-baptism had been according to christs minde he would have taken this occasion to appoint it , which he not doing , it is very probable that he would not have it done . to all which mr. m. in his defence pag. , . replied onely this , that they were dictates and brought in to little purpose , whereas there is nothing sayd by me without reason and some proof , and yet i being a respondent it was more than my business necessitated me to produce so much , a denial being sufficient for the respondent . and whereas he saith i grant enough to serve his turn , that the kingdom of heaven did belong to those infants and concludes that their infants in their infantile age are capable of inward grace , and some of them actually partakers of it , and this is enough for him , and that more than this cannot be said of grown men who are visible professors . to it i say , though i should grant that the kingdom of heaven did belong to these infants , yet it serves not his turn to prove thence that the infants of believers are visible church-members , and that believers infants have right to baptism , except it be proved that their parents were believers , that the kingdom of heaven for that reason did belong to them , and in this thing was intended by christ , the establishing a settled rule for infants interest in the church and baptism . capacity of inward grace is not denied to infants , no not to turks infants : whether any of them be partakers actually of inward grace is not determined : nor is it true that no more can be sayd of grown men : for the making of visible profession may be said of grown m●n , which cannot be said of infants . but mr. b. is eager for infant-baptism as conclusible hence , le ts see what he saies . first he begins with his rhetorick , which commonly supplies the want of proof . then he heaps ●p seven or eight inte●rogations , and takes all for granted which he demands . but to them i say . to the first , . i except against his expression which infinuates as if by denying that infants are visible church-members they were cast out of christs visible church , whereas it is one thing not to reckon them in and another to cast them out , which is but once used in scripture iohn . and this phrase serves onely to provoke passion . . it is so far from being true that there is enough in those texts to satisfy that christ would have infants admitted into his visible church , that it is rather true on the contrary that there is enough against it . to his other questions , i answer . . by denying that they were infants he would have received mark . . . whether they were infants he took in his arms , whom he would not to be kept from him , but suffered to come to him , and whom he blessed , it is uncertain . piscator , estius , &c. conceive they were young ones that could come of themselves being called . but be it granted they were infants , le ts see what mr. b. gathers thence . hence , saith he , i argue thus . . if christ would have us receive infants in his name , then we must receive them as belonging to him and his church . but he would have us to receive them in his name ▪ therefore &c. . if he that receiveth an infant in his name receiveth himself , then some infants are to be received in his name ; and those that refuse them sin : but the former is true , therefore the later . answ. . both the conclusions might be granted and yet mr. bs. cause not gained , the former , because infants may belong to christ and his church , to wit , the invisible , and yet it not be proved thence they are visible church-members ; the later , because they may be received in christs name as by harbouring , feeding them , and yet not be admitted to baptism . . the minor in both syllogismes is false : for the text mark . . speaks not of infants in age to be received , but of believers that are humble , and low in condition as infants , particularly of his apostles . . saith mr. b. if christ was much displeased with those that kept particular infants from visible access to him , then ( though they could not keep them from his visible grace ) i think he will be much more displeased with those that keep all the infants in the world from visible access to him in his church now ( though they cannot keep them from the invisible church : ) but the former is true : therefore the later . answ. the conclusion is granted . for what visible access to christ in his church now can be but by profession of faith i know not . if mr. b. know of any that keep infants from professing faith let him threaten them , and spare not . but that which he tels us that we keep infants from visible access to christ , because we baptize them not for want of profession of faith , is but a squib that may affright women and children , when intelligent persons laugh at it . . saith he , if christ command us to suffer them to come , and not to forbid them , then those sin against his express command that will not suffer them to come but do forbid them , ( for it is a standing command and speaks of infants , and not of these individuals onely ; and there is now no other visible admittance to christ but by admitting into his church and to be his disciples ) but &c. therefore &c. answ. the conclusion is granted without any detriment to our cause : we forbid not any to come to christ. there 's no coming to christ no was those little children came , that is , to come to his person for blessing , cure , or teaching by himself in the flesh . there 's no coming to christ now but by hearing his word , and believing in him , as john . . is expressed . if any forbid infants to do so let him bear the blame . but we forbid infants to be baptized till they come to christ , that is , till they believe , and we are sure we have the scripture for us , matth. . . mark . . acts . . ephes. . . gal. . , . a thing so known that all that heretofore baptized infants did take this as unquestionable , that believers onely are to be baptized , and therefore to justifie infant-baptism they run into wilde fancies , as that they believe in the church , in their parents , in their sureties , in their being baptized . but mr. bs. hold is in his parenthesis , against which i except , . that his speech of [ admitting into his church , and to be his disciples ] supposeth that a person is first admitted into christs church , and then to be his disciple , whereas no man is rightly admitted into christs church , who is not first a disciple . . that he saith , this luke . . is a standing commandment . but this we must take on mr. bs. word , there 's nothing in the text , or in mr. bs. writing to prove it . nor is it likely . for if so , me thinks the apostles and the writers of the new testament should not have been so negligent as neither to observe this command after this time , nor to have recorded any act done by the apostles according to that command . . that chists speech is of the species of infants , and not of these individuals onely . . is said without proof , yea it is more probable that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is as much as , suffer these little children to come to me , and that because , as paedobaptists urge , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of such is the kingdom of heaven , ( which is the reason of christs injunction ) is meant of those infants . . were it granted not to be meant of those individuals onely , yet this is all that can be thence proved , that if after that time other infants were brought to christ in that manner to be touched by him , they should be suffered . it may be granted , that there is now no other visible admittance to christ but by admitting into his church . but this is enough to prove that there is now no such visible admittance to christ as those mark . had , who were admitted to christs person to be touched by him , and not into his visible church by baptism . . saith mr. b. if of such be the kingdom of god , then of such is the visible church : but the former is true . therefore , &c. answ. the consequence is denied . of infants in the mothers womb , as jacob , john baptist , &c. is the kingdom of god , and yet the visible church is not of such . but saith mr. b. here they have two cavils against the plain sense of the text , . by [ such ] is meant [ such for doc●ble●ess and humility ] to which i answer , . then it seems they are so docible and humble , that the kingdom belongs to them . for if it belong to others , because they are such as them , then it must needs belong to others also . answ. mr. bs. censure of the answers i gave as cavils is as the rest of this his dispute rash and inconsiderate . for the very words mark . . do directly ▪ lead to that sense i give , and the words of christ matth. . , . plainly expound wherein they that enter into the kingdom of god must be like children . but to the matter of his answer , . the conclusion is granted , nor was it ever denyed by me , that of some infants is the kingdom of god , and particularly of those whom christ blessed , but yet not because of their docibleness and humility , but because of christs blessing . nor do i allow mr. bs. consequence , that if the kingdom did belong to others , because they are such as them , then it must needs belong to them also . for the kingdom of heaven did belong to others , because they are such as them in the properties common to them with other children . but the kingdom of heaven did belong to them as blessed by christ , not in respect of docibleness and humility . it may be it will be said , that then little children have those properties for which of them may be the kingdom of god. i answer , it doth not follow : but this onely follows that there is such teachableness and humility in little children in other respects , which other men imitating and expressing in spiritual things , and so becoming such as they are by analogy and resemblance , in that respect belong to the kingdom of god. . saith mr. b. doth christ say , to such as them in this or that respect onely , and not to them , ( or saith he ) not in general , to such ? even to such as he took in his arms and blessed ? he would not have taken up , and blessed any , for a meer emblem of such as were blessed ; he would not have taken up and blessed a lamb or a dove as emblems of humility and innocency . if christ say , [ of such ] is the kingdom , i am bound to take scripture in the most extensive sense , till there be a plain reason to necessitate me to restrain it . and therefore must understand it [ to such ] both of that age , or any other age . who dare think that the word [ to such ] is not rather inclusive as to them than exclusive ? if i love humble poor men , and my servants keep them from my house because they are poor , and if i chide them for it , and say , suffer such to come to me , and forbid them not , for my delight is in such : who would so interpret this speech as to think i would exclude them , while i command their admittance ? and that i meant other humble ones , and not these ? answ. doth mr. b. say , to such in general in respect of age onely belongs the kingdom of god. if he do say so ( as his words seem to import ) then it follows , that to every infant , whether of believers or unbelievers , elect or reprobate , belongs the kingdom of god : if not , then he must say as i say , if he will speak truth , that . to those infants belonged the kingdom in this respect onely as they were blessed by christ , or elect . . if it be applied to other infants , it can be applied to no others but such as are blessed by christ , or elect . . and for other persons , that under the term [ of such ] are meant also persons of age like them in humility and teachableness is so manifest from v. . matth. . . . . that it is nothing but cavilling in mr. b. thus to carp at my plain and clear exposition of the words agreeable to the most approved expositors , as beza annot. ad matth. . . talium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] id est , horum & similium ut supra . piscat : sch ▪ in matth. . . talium ] 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quales scilicet sunt isti pueruli , nempe credentes in me & demissè de se sen●ientes ▪ confer . supra , c. . . & seq . that i omit others . neither do i , nor need i say , that christ took them , or blessed the little ones for a meer emblem of such as were blessed , or that he might , by like reason with mine , have taken up and blessed a lamb or a dove as emblems of humility . and though mr. bs. rule may be questioned , whether a man be bound to take scripture in the most extensive sense till there be a plain reason to necessitate him to restrain it , yet i gainsay it not , to understand [ to such ] both of that age or any other , and i allow that christ meant those , and other humble ones , and that the term [ of such ] is both inclusive , including more than those particular little ones ; and exclusive , of those that are not elect or blessed by christ. and though i maintain by firm arguments in my postscript to mr. blake , sect . . that by the kingdom of heaven , as in matth. . . or of god , as mark . . luke . . is meant the kingdom of glory , ( which mr. b. denies not ) yet were it allowed mr. b. that it is meant of the visible church , it is not true of all infants of believers , that of them is the visible church , for infants in the womb , as jacob , are of the kingdom of god , that is the invisible church , yet not of the visible , much less of the species of infants , as mr. b. speaks . for then every individual infant should be of the visible church , though the parents be unbelievers , which mr. b. me thinks should gainsay : and therefore there is plain reason necessitating to restrain the speech of christ , as i do . . saith mr. b. when mr. t. maketh their docibleness the thing intended by christ , he forgot that he judged them uncapable of being disciples . why may not those be disciples who are not onely docible , but exemplary for their teachableness . answ. mr. t. tels mr. b. he did not forget , but thinks mr. b. did not heed . the docibleness allowed to infants was in things natural , such as are to know the nurse , imitate gestures , to be stilled from crying when rebuked , &c. but not in things spiritual , to know christ to be the son of god , the messiah , &c. which are necessary to denominate them disciples of christ. yet such teachableness , and humility onely negative , in not ambitiously affecting preheminence are sufficient for christ to propound them as examples or similitudes rather , to direct his disciples to imitate in another kinde . their second objection , saith mr ▪ b. is that by [ the kingdom of god ] is meant the kingdom of heaven . and i think so too : but then if the kingdom of heaven belong to such , much more a standing as members in the visible church : for what is it to be a member of the church visible , but to be one that in seeming or appearance , or to the judgment of man , doth belong to the invisible church or the kingdom of heaven ? for the church is but one , and the difference respective as i shewed before : therefore both visible and invisible , both military and triumphant are called in scripture [ the kingdom of heaven or of god ] if a man be known ( or any sort of men ) to belong to the church invisible , then they visibly belong to it ; and then they are visible members 〈◊〉 the church : so that this proof is more full for infants church-membership , than if it had been said , they may be visibl● church-members . for it saith much more of them which includeth that . answ. mr. b. thinks it seems with me that by the kingdom of god is meant the kingdom of heaven , that is , of glory , or the invisible church ; which if true , then of no infants but elect is the kingdom of god , for no other are of the invisible church , or enter into the kingdom of glory . and if so , not the the very species of infants but particular persons , and of these not all perhaps but a few of the infants of believers , perhaps more of the infants of unbelievers are of the kingdom of god. but however he thinks it will follow à majori , that if of infants is the kingdom of god , that is the invisible church or kingdom of glory , then much more they have a standing in the visible church . to which i say , . if this argument were good , it could onely prove those infants to be of the visible church who are elect . . it can prove it onely of those who in seeming or appearance , or to the judgment of men do belong to the invisible church , or be known to belong to the invisible church . but no infants in particular are known to belong to the invisible church , nor is there any note whereby any infant in particular may be discerned to be of the invisible church , which may make it seem or appear to the judgment of man , ergo , there is no infant , no not according to mr. bs. own description , hath a standing in the visible church . the minor of this argument i expect should be denied , but it will concern them that do deny it , to shew us out of scripture , where god hath given us any sign , though but probable , to judg such an infant to be of the invisible church of the elect , such a one not . if any say gods covenant and the parents faith . i reply , god hath plainly declared rom. . , , , , , , . that he hath not made any promise to the natural seed of abraham , that he will be their god in respect of saving grace , much less to the natural seed of every or any believer of this time , but that notwithstanding any covenant he hath made , he takes the seed of unbelievers to be his children , and leaves the seed of bellevers to be hardened : and this appeared plainly in jacob and esau of the same parents believers , born together , yet one loved , the other hated , and the gentiles called , when the jews were rejected . we say truly the book of life is a secret which belongs to god , who hath hidden it , yea hath so ordered it by the strange variations of his calling , that his judgments should be unsearchable , and his paths past finding out , rom. . . and therefore no man hath warrant from gods word to frame any judgment concerning this or that infant to be of the invisible church . but because mr. b. says somewhat to prove his consequence , let us consider what he brings . that which he sayth is , . the church is but one , and the difference respective . . he that saith that they belong to the invisible , saith much ▪ more , even that which includeth that they are visible , ( if i understand his obscure expressions ) church-members . . that to be a member of the church visible , is to be one that in seeming or appearance , or to the judgment of man , doth belong to the invisible church , or the kingdom of heaven . answ. . it is true , the universal church of the elect is but one , and the difference respective , yet the difference such , that all the invisible are not of the visible church , nor all the visible of the invisible ; nor by any good consequence can it be made good , they that are of the invisible are much more of the visible , no not when they are known to be of the invisible church . the first is manifest by instances , the spirits of the just made perfect , elect persons yet unbegotten , yet uncalled , called , but not yet shewing it are of the invisible church , but not of the visible : on the other side , secret hypocrites are of the visible , but not of the invisible . and the last assertion is manifest , in that though it is more to be of the invisible church than of the visible , yet that which denominates a person of the visible church doth not agree always to a member of the invisible church . but mr. b. thinks the contrary to be true , and accordingly frames an explication of what it is to be a member of the church visible , which i must not call a definition , for that is excepted against by him , praefestin : morator , sect . . as if in logick any descriptions or explications of words or things were not usually called definitions , though imperfect . let 's examine it however . he tels us here what it is to be a visible church-member , which because he doth elsewhere more fully express , i shall have an eye on the writings elsewhere , and so much the rather , because in this mistake of his lieth much of the fallacy of mr. bs. second argument . in his praefest . morator , sect . . he saith , when he distinguisheth the church into visible and invisible , he doth not divide the genus into the species , sed aequivocum in sua aequivocata : but i think he is mistaken in this ; for then a term is equivocal , as arist. categ . in the beginning tels us , when the name is onely common , but not the reason of being , or the definition according to that name ; but the definition of the church of christ , even that which mr. b. himself saith , all divines are agreed on plain scripture , &c. pag. . that it is a society of persons separated from the world to god , or called out of the world , doth agree to the visible church , and therefore the term [ church of christ ] is not an equivocal term , but a genus , whether univocal , or analogum . and i add , saith he , that the reason of the appellation given to the visible body is , its seeming to be the same with the mystical ; or that the name is given secondarily , borrowedly from the mystical to the visible . answ. i grant that the church invisible is famosius or primarium analogatum , that is , the invisible church is more truly , or in a greater degree of propriety christs church than the visible , yet do not think the name of the church is given secondarily , borrowedly , from the mystical to the visible . for the original meaning of the word ] [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , translated church ] being [ an assembly , or meeting , or congregation of people in one place ] ( who are an object visible ) i conceive that the term [ church first agrees to the visible church , and secondarily to the invisible , yea in exact speech the invisible church now are called [ the church ] in order to their meeting , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or general assembly at the last day , for heb. . . these are joined together , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the general assembly and church , or as it is termed thess. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , our gathering together unto christ , at which time the visible church and invisible will be all one visible company , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one sheepfold one sh●pheard , john . . nor do i conceive the reason of the appellation given to the visible body is its seeming to be the same with the mystical , but because by their words and actions discernible by sense they own christ as their lord without any consideration of their election or reprobation , sincerity or hypocrisy , christs approbation , or non-approbation of them . and that the seeming to other men to be of the invisible church , is not the reason of the appellation of a visible church or church-member , i gather hence , becaus a person may seem to be of the invisible church , yea may be known to be of the invisible church of gods elect , as for instance , jacob and john baptist in their mothers womb seemed , yea were known to be of the invisible church of gods elect , luke . . yet not of the visible . for sure they were not visible church-members , when they were not visible men . yea there may be many visible men who may seem , with great probability upon signs of their conversion wrought on them , to be of the invisible church , and not of the visible as a number of indians hearing mr. eliat , or mr. mayhew ▪ preach , and shewing affection by tears , smiting of their breasts , lifting up their eys to heaven and such like actions , have seemed , from these sensible expressions , of their own , to be elect persons , such as god intended to save , and yet i think no man will say that at that time they were visible church-members till they afterwards made profession of faith in christ. mr. b. goeth on thus , so that if you ask me , whether it be certain or onely probable , that infants are members of the visible church ? i say , certain . answ. if mr. b. mean it of the sorts or as he cals it species of infants , it may easily appear by this review that it is so far from being certain [ that infants are members of the visible church christian ] that it hath scarse a shew of probability . if he mean it of the individuals , i say that according to mr. bs. own sayings , there is no certainty that any infant is a visible church-member . for according to him to be a member , of the church visible is to be one that in seeming , or appearance , or to the judgment of man , doth belong to the invisible church , or the kingdom of heaven , but this belonging in seeming appearance , or to the judgment of man is uncertain , it s but a judgment of probability which any man , hath of any mans belonging to the invisible church , mr. b. himself plain scripture &c. p. . sayth , therefore even cardinal cu●anus calleth the visible church ecclesia conjecturalis , as receiving its members on conjectural signs . therefore there is no certainty of it that any particular infant is a visible church-member . if it be sayd that the seeming is certain , though it be not certain that they belong to the invisible church , i reply , so it may be sayd that if turks infants seem to be of the visible church , though to a fool or frantick man , the seeming is certain . but i suppose mr. b. means that it is certain and not onely probable to considerate men to whom things are not certain of which they have not certain evidence , that infants are visible church-members . but this ( understanding it of particulars ) is not certain upon any good evidence that they are members of the church invisible , and therefore it is not certain they are visible church-members sith by mr. bs. description , to be a visible church-member is to seem to be of the invisible church , and therefore as the seeming to be of the invisible church is , so is the visibility , both uncertain and as most probable , and so all baptizing of infants is upon uncertain grounds and therefore a man cannot do it in faith he being uncertain he doth his duty : which thing is also made good elsewhere from mr. bs. concessions antipaedobapt . part . . sect . . but mr. b. thinks he hath sure grounds , and therefore he added ! if you ask me , what is it that directly or immediatly constituteth them such members . i answer , their visible or audible , that is their external engagement by covenant to christ : this ( performed by the parent for them ) is it on their part ; supposing christs title to them , and the offer of himself in covenant . answ. i grant that the visible or audible that is their external engagement by covenant to christ doth make the persons so ingaging freely , seriously , soberly , and understandingly , visible church-members . but that the parents performing this for the childe doth make the infants such directly and immediately , is an assertion not proved by mr. b. nor is it true , nor consistent with the descriptions of the visible church and sayings about it , which protestants of note give , nor doth it as here and elsewhere set down by mr. b. yield any sure ground to know certainly any particular infant to be a visible church-member . that i may make good these in their order . two things are supposed and one thing named as directly and immediately constituting infants visible church-members . the things supposed are , . christs title to them , . the offer of himself in covenant to them . but there is nothing but ambiguity in these expressions . for . it is uncertain whether he mean that these are supposed when the parent doth perform the engagement for the childe that christ hath a title to them , and that he doth offer himself in covenant to them : or whether he mean that the parents engagement doth constitute the childe a visible church member , if christ have a title to it and offer himself in covenant to it . if in the former sense , then it had been enough to have mentioned the parents act without that supposition ; if in the later , then what ever the parents act be yet no man is certain of the childes visible church-membership by it alone without the other two . . what title of christ to them he means whether by election and gift of his father to him , or by his spirit , which he that hath not is none of his , rom. . . or what other title he means i am uncertain . . what covenant he means whether the absolute covenant of grace belonging to the elect , or the conditional covenant to all upon condition of faith , or the national covenant made to abraham , and the people of israel , o● ▪ what other besides i cannot tell how to determine . . how the covenant is offered except by preaching to them or by some secret work of the spirit i cannot imagine . . it is somewhat uncertain whether the external engagement that may make the infant a visible church-member must not be of a parent that is a real and sincere believer , or whether a dogmatical faith serves turn . sure in his plain scrip. &c. chap. . part . . he makes a real faith necessary in the parent to that sanctification without which the childe is not holy , that is a visible church-member . . whether he make the parents engagement to constitute immediately infants born or unborn also visible church-members is uncertain . le ts see what we can gather elsewhere i cannot for present find a place where he more fully expresseth himself than in his plain scrip . &c. pag. . of the first edition , whereas saith he , some stick at it that i make the condition of the infants church-membership and justification to be wholly without him in the faith of the parent ; i answer them . . that it is evident in all the scripture that god putteth a very great difference between the children of the faithfull and other mens . which i grant , but withall that this is true onely of the sincerely faithfull and not onely inexternal profession , and yet not so as to count any a visible church-member in the christian church for the parents faith . . saith he , that he maketh such promises to them , and giveth them such privileges as i have exprest in this book . but if he mean by the promises those of the covenant of grace , i say , they are made onely to elect and true believers , if other promises of temporal blessings they are not made to the children of meer seeming believers but true believers , nor do they at all reach to visible church-membership or justification of children . these privileges are no where promised to the children of believing christians though sincere meerly because of their parents faith . and therefore that which he adds . . that this is to them as they are the children of the people who believe , is false , and when he saith . . and that he never requireth any condition inherent in the infant , that i finde in scripture , yet others conceive an inherent condition required in an infant heb. . . and elsewhere . but he adds , and doth not this plainly tell us , that the parents faith is the condition ? if the parent be a believer , the childe is entered the covenant , the father entering it for him , and his deut. . if the parent be not a believer , the childe is left out : and what other condition can be imagined ? answ. if the scripture had required no inherent condition in the infant , yet it had not followed that the parents faith is the condition of the infants church-membership and justification . for there are other ways , to wit , their election , christs death for them , which are a vouched as sufficient to their justification without the consideration either of any inherent condition in the infant , or the parents faith . nor is it true , that if the parent be a believer the childe is entered the covenant , the father entering it for him and his , and that if the parent be not a believer , the childe is left out . for if it be meant of the covenant of grace it is most false , that if the parent be a believer the childe is entered the covenant . esau was the childe of isaac a believer , ishmael of abraham , yet neither entered into the covenant of grace , neither justified by the parents faith ? if it were so then they were entered into the covenant of grace and justified , and after out●d , which infers falling from grace . not is there any such covenant of visible church-membership which if the parent be a believer the childe i● entered in . nor is there a word deut. . to prove it . there is nothing there set down but a narration of moses his ●enewing the covenant with the children of israel in the land of moab , beside the covenant which he made with them in horeb. it is true it is said v. , , , . they stood all before the lord , the commandors and the men , then the litle ones , wives , strangers , hewers of wood drawers of water , that they might enter into covenant , but that , . the parents peculiarly as parents did enter into covenant for their children appears not : but rather that the entering of the covenant was by the rulers in behalf of the subject , as the league with the gibeonites was by the princes in behalf of israel , whereto they were bound josh. . , . nor is there any consideration of a father entering into covenant for his childe more than of a husbands entering into covenant for his wife , or a masters entering into covenant for his servant , and therefore if this fact were good to prove , if the parent be a believer the childe is entered the covenant , the father entering for him and his : it is good to prove that if the husband , or master be a believer , the wife , and servant are entered into covenant , the husband and master entering it for them and theirs , and so wives , and servants shall be visible church-members , as well as infants of believers , by the faith of husbands and masters . . if the parents faith procure this privilege for the child then either because it is his childe , and then it procures it for the childe while it is his childe though the childe be at years and an infidel , for then it is his childe , or else upon condition the childe agree to it , but then the privilege belongs not to infants , and there is an inherent condition required , to wit , the childes consent besides the parents faith : if it be said that it procures it to the childe while a● infant , but not when it comes to years how can this be true that the parents faith or covenanting should immediately and directly constitute them visible church-members when infants because they are their children , and the covenant is made with them and their children ( as they say ) and yet they not visible church-members while they are children ? surely , the immediate cause continuing , the effect continues , and therefore if the parents faith with the covenant ) make the childe in infancy a visible church-member it must also make it a visible church-member at years though an infidel . . whereas it is supposed by mr. b. that the parents as believers entered the covenant deut. . it rather appears by moses his preface v. , , . that ▪ moses did therefore draw them into this solemn covenant , because they were to that day unbelievers , . it is false , that this entering into covenant did make them church-members . for. . the end of it was to prevent them from backsliding v. . to idolatry , and to prevent gods forsaking them thereupon , v. . . they were church-members before both by gods special separating of the whole nation to be his people , and the solemn covenant at mount horeb , and so were members of that church as part of that nation . . if this entering into covenant made them there church-members visible then it made their posterity also then visible church-members , for with them also was that covenant made , v. ▪ . and so persons should be made visible church-members afore they are born . . if it were true , that that covenanting made them visible , church-members of that church , yet it advantageth no whit to prove infants now visible members of the christian church , which is not national as that was , nor gathered by the chief magistrate as that was , nor injoyned such a national covenant as that , but consisting of particular believers of all nations , gathered by the preaching of the gospel and voluntary personal covenanting for themselves onely testified by their being baptized into christ. if any ask whether a national covenant or a covenant of parents for children be now allowable ? i answer , i deny not but such a national or parental covenant may be allowed , and in some cases covenient , yet i say that it makes not all the subjects and children church-members , nor bindes them without their consent any farther than the matter of the covenant it self bindes . as for that which mr. b. saith , if the parent be not a believer the childe is left out , it is false , if we understand it in respect of church-membership of children at years they may be in the church visible though their parents were unbelievers and left out of the church though believers ; if of justification , it is false both of infants and children of years . and it is utterly untrue that in the christian church children are made visible church-members by parents faith , or left out because of their unbelief . for , . there is no word of scripture that saith so . the three texs acts . . rom. . ▪ . &c. cor. . . are fully discussed already in the first part of this review , and what mr. blake hath replied shall be examined ( god willing ) in that which follows . . no one passage of the new testament doth shew that any infant was reckoned for a visible church-member of the christian church in the new testament , but many shew they were not . . if the infant children of the faithfull had been accounted in the apostles times visible members of the christian church there had been some thing done by the apostles and other holy men to have preserved their right , but no practise of baptism on them , nor any other act can be produced that the apostles or other holy men did to preserve such a right , ergo. . the covenant of the gospel is with particular persons made believers out of all nations , their gathering by preaching the gospel to them , which evidently shew that god intended to take in persons into the christian church upon their own faith , and not in a national way as he did the church of the jews . . the texts ( besides the three forenamed ) brought by the assembly confess . of faith , ch . . art . . to wit , ezek. . , . gen. . . gen. . . and the texts brought by mr. b. ( not here examined ) to wit , matth. . , , . revel . . . heb. . . & . . rom. . . exod . . iosh. . , . deut . , , . psal. . . num. . . dan. . . deut. . , . deut. . , , , . mal. . ▪ are so palpably impertinent to prove the visible church-membership of infants now , that i am in a demur with my self , whether it be fit for me to bestow any more pains in shewing the impertinency of them . . the speeches of protestants of note do make the persons own profession that sign whereby they are judged , and from whence they are termed of the visible church . synops. profess . leydens . disp. . sect . . ecclesia visibilis appellatur , non tam quia homines ipsi visibiles sunt , sed quia ipsorum ordo , professio & communio sensibus exponuntur . dr. prideaux lect. . sect . . visibilis dicitur ecclesia ratione communionis sensibilis membrorum inter se. mr. marshall himself in the sermon at the spi●●le , april . stiled by mr. b. that late excellent , honest solid sermon for unity , pag. . hath these words . secondly , that part of the church which is upon the earth in regard that the very life and being of it and of all the members of it ly in internal grace , which cannot be seen , in that respect the church of christ is called an invisible church ▪ but now as the same church and members doth make a profession of their faith and obedience sensibly to the eys and ears of others in that respect it is called a visible church ; but the visible is not one church and the invisible another church , but meerly the same church under several denominations , the one from their constituting graces , the other from the external profession of them . there was lately a printed sheet brought to my hands intituled , the profession of the church , &c. which is owned by mr. richard baxter in his christian concord , in the preface of which are these words . and because ministers cannot well know who are members of the churches , and who not , and so must be ignorant of the extent of their charges and duties without an expression of their peoples consent . hence i argue , . if ministers cannot know who are members of the churches and who not without an expression of their peoples consent , then they cannot know infants to be members of the churches , who express no consent . . then the parents faith upon which they were baptized without their own consent expressed doth not make them visible church-members , for if it did they might know them by their memory and registers that they were church-members . . then they are not rightly baptized by him without their consent . . then it is not true which mr. b. writeth plain scripture &c. pag. . and do you not see it fulfilled before your eys ? are not bewdley , kederminster ( meaning all the people ●lder and yonger ) &c. and england ▪ ( till of lat● ) as fully christs disciples and so church-members , a● the jews were in covenant with god and so church-members ? which if true mr. b. may know who at kederminster are church-members without their expressed consent , even all the inhabitants , and that his charge is extended to all . . then the gift of visible church-membership is repealed ●ith in the common wealth of israel all the posterity of israel were church-members . . by his new course of distinguishing the professing and subscribing parioshi●ers of kederminster as church-members from the rest as not his church-members , he gathers a church out of a church and separates some disciples from others , and doth himself make a like division in his church ( though not in so justifiable a way as he chargeth so fiercely on me and others . which i conceive to be little less than a retractation of his own tenet about infants vis●●e church-membership , and clearing of his opposites . lastly , by mr. bs. determinations there is no certain way to know a particular infant to be a visible church-member . for in his determinations there is no resolution , nor according to his grounds do i think can be given a certain resolution whether the parent be such a one to whom the covenant is , whether he have that faith which may intitle his childe to visible church-membership , whether the immediate parents engagement be necessary or a remote parents engagement be sufficient , whether the engagement must be open in the face of the congregation , or it be sufficient that it be done privately , when it must be , at baptism , or at some other time , whether it need not be as o●● as he hath children to be admitted visible church-members , whether the baptizer may account him a visible church-member , whose parents are dead , absent , unable to come , or to express their engagement and so baptize him , which with many other doubt● would ●●●a●d the course of ministers and people in their profane infant sprinkling , if they did not with a blinde obedience rest on mr. bs. unproved dictates , but searched after the truth considerately and impartially . but i pass on . . saith mr. b. hence i further argue thus : i● christ were much displeased with his disciples for keeping infants from him , then he took it as a part of their revealed duty that they should not forbid them : but the former is true , therefore the later . whence i further argue : if it were the disciples known or revealed duty not to forbid them to come to christ ▪ then they must needs take it also for a revealed truth that infants in specie ( and not those numerical onely ) should not be forbidden to come , ( for they could not know that those individuals should be admitted but by knowing that infants should be admitted ) but &c. answ. the conclusion of the former argument may be granted , and yet the seque●e of the later argument denied . for they might know it either by some particular sign from christ or some particular instinct of the spirit , that it was their duty to permit those infants to come to christ , and yet not permit any more . but saith mr. b. yea further . . if it were the disciples revealed duty to admit infants to come to christ for this very reason , because of such is the kingdom of heaven , then it was no secret but a revealed truth , that of such was the kingdom of heaven : but the former is true . for christ would not be angry so much with them for not knowing that which was neuer revealed , on for not admitting them when they had no means to know them to have right of admittance . the consequence is evident the ●●for● , and so 〈◊〉 follow 〈◊〉 that if it were then a revealed truth , that of such is the kingdom of heaven ; then they were visible members of the church . for that sort of men that are known to belong to heaven ( though it be not known of the individuals ) do visibly belong to the church ; ( as i think none dare deny . ) answ. . according to their exposition who understand [ of such ] onely those that are like little children in affection , and disposition , and not of those particular little children then brought , much more according to their exposition who by [ of such ] understand these individual infants and no other , they might know those infants were to be admitted , and yet have no knowledg of an universal rule for admitting● other infants at other times . . but be it granted that not onely of those individuals , but also of other infants is the kingdom of heaven , yet i deny they were visible church-members ▪ and for his proof , i dare deny that which he f●ndly thinks ●●n● dare deny , that they that are known to belong to heaven 〈◊〉 visibly belong to the church . abraham and 〈◊〉 and j●●●● are known to belong to heaven , yet i do not conceive do visibly belong to the church . and the same is true of all the spirits of the just ▪ made perfect , of elect infants ●●born , j●●●s unce●led &c. i know none ●●iung to the visible church but such as sensibly have professed faith in christ. am●s : med. th. l. . ● . ● . sect . , , , , 〈◊〉 militant visibilis ●●su sc. vel sensu externo . 〈◊〉 prae●ect . 〈◊〉 eccl. pag. ▪ ecclesia aliquando denominatur , ab●iis q●● 〈◊〉 quaeque ▪ ●n sensum incurrunt piscat ●●●or . ●o● ▪ . . visi●il● appellatur quat●ru●●er●●s h●bet no●●● in oculo● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . mr. b. himself praefest in ▪ morator , sect . . by [ visible ] i m●an th●● which is discernible by the understanding , median●● sensu . therefore that sort of men that are known to belong to heaven do not visibly belong to the church , unless ▪ they are known so b● some sensible expression , yea of their own ▪ which is not true of infants , much less o● the sort of them , or any sort of being , no sort of beings being visible , but onely singula●s . mr. b. goes on thus , . but the chief evidence in the text lieth here ; if because that of such is the kingdom ; therefore it was the disciples sin to keep them back ; them it must needs be the very species of infants that christ means , are of the kingdom , ( and not onely the aged humble ) but therefore it was the disciples sin to keep them back , ( and their duty to admit them , or else christ would not have been much displeased with them ) because that of such is the kingdom ; therefore it must needs be infants themselves that are of the kingdom . the reason of the consequence lieth here ; it would be no sin 〈◊〉 the disciples to keep away from christ those that were 〈◊〉 m●er emble●s of the saved . for else it would have been the disciples sin to have forbidden all the sheep or doves in the countrey to have been brought to christ to l●y han●s on . this is plain and convincing to me . answ. the conclusion i● granted , that it was the infants , if they were infants that were brought to christ themselves , and not onely the aged humble resembled by them , that are of the kingdom mr. b. needed not to have cast away so much pains in ●r●ving it against me , who do in my postscrip● sect ▪ 〈◊〉 say , i stick not to that exposition of not including those infants . but i think mr. b. would prove , that not onely christ said of those infants , but of the very species of infants is the kingdom of god ▪ which speech of his hath in it sundry absurditie● . . he seems to make infants a distinct species from the aged : whereas in ●og●ck [ 〈◊〉 , mankinde ] is species i● a , the lowest k●●●● in the predicament of substance ; and it is a rule in that art ▪ ●ha● se● and age 〈◊〉 v●riant speciem , do not vary the kinde . ▪ when he saith , the very species are of the kingdom , sith he grants , that by the kingdom is meant the invisible church ▪ his words s●●m to 〈◊〉 ▪ that all infants are of the invisible church . for the very species c●●preh●nd all the individuals , and then he must hold● all infants are elect ▪ ( for onely the elect are of the invisible church ) and if after they be reproba●e then election is rev●cable , and the elect may not be saved . but if he mea● it odely of some of that sort , and particularly all the infants of believers neither is that t●●● , sith the contrary is manifest in esau. but if he mean no more than this , that of some elect infants , yea and of others than those particular infants is the kingdom of god , i should not stick to grant it , nor need mr. b. thus trouble himself to prove it , though i think his consequence is not good . for it might be their sin to keep back those infants from christ , if christ did by any sign discover his minde to have them brought , though it were not to declare their title , or any other infants title to the kingdom of heaven , but onely to use them as emblems . nor is mr. bs. reason forcible , that then it might have been their sin to have forbidden sheep and doves to be brought to christ. for it may be granted , that this might have been their sin , if christ had in like manner declared his minde by any sign concerning such sheep , that they should be brought to him . mr. bs. arguing runs upon this supposition , that the apostles might know it was their duty at all times to permit infants to come to christ from a general truth , that of all infants ( at least of believers ) is the kingdom of god , ( which he neither proves , nor can prove ) whereas the apostles fault might be in not heeding some particular thing he had then by some words or other sign made known of those infants then brought , or not considering christs office , and constant practice of doing good to all , specially to infirm and diseased persons , such as those infants might be , and as some conceive were , and accordingly brought to be cured by christ. but mr. b. is not yet come to that he would have . . saith he , those that christ took in his arms , laid his hands on , and blessed , were visible members of his church , and not meer resemblances of such : but some infants christ took in his arms , laid his hands on , and blessed : therefore some infants were members of the visible church , ( and consequently christ hath not repealed the church-membership of infants ) and they were not meer resemblances of such . for would christ have blessed so a sheep or dove ? or are they blessed of christ , and yet not so much as visible members of his church ? sure there are none visibly blest without the visible church . and it was not these onely ; for i have proved , it was the disciples duty to admit others to the like blessing . answ. i do not say , that the infants christ took in his arms were meer resemblances of visible church-members , and therefore mr. b. in seeking to prove it still follows a false sent , proving what is not denied . but the other part of the conclusion is denied by me [ to wit , that some infants were members of the visible church ] and that part of the major , [ those that christ took in his arms , laid his hands on , and blessed , were visible members of his church ] and for his proof , that [ none are visibly blest without the visible church ] i deny it , nor doth he bring any thing to prove it but his own words , sure it is so . but i count it false . for jacob visibly blessed pharaoh , gen. . . and yet pharaoh was not of the visible church . when christ did raise jairus daughter , heal the daughter of the syrophoenician , i conceive they had a visible blessing , and yet were not of the visible church . and if it were the disciples duty to admit others to the like blessing , yet there is neither in the text nor elsewhere a word to prove , it was their duty to admit them to the like blessing by any other than christ himself , and his own laying hands on them . or if it were imagined , that christ intended this should be a rule to the disciples for their conferring a like blessing on infants , yet that it must be a rule to successors , and if to successors , to all ministers to do it , or that they must do it by baptism , and not rather as the bishops did it in confirmation , by laying on of hands , hath not the least shadow of proof ; but rather the contrary is more likely . and accordingly jancerus , & concilium senonense , as chamier tom . . panstr . cath. lib. . cap. . sect . . the composers of the interim , as osiander epit. hist. eccl. cent. . lib. . cap. . pag. . relate , gathered the institution of confirmation from thence . but mr. b. adds , and it is yet more considerable , that all the three former evangelists make full mention of these passages of christ ; and therefore it is evident that they were not taken for small circumstantials , but doctrines of moment for the churches information . they are recorded also in matth. . , , , &c. matth. . , . luke . . luke . , . i desire any tender conscienced christian , that is in doubt whether infants should be admitted members of the visible church , and would fain know what is the pleasure of christ in this thing , to reade over the texts impartially , and considerately , and then bethink himself , whether it be more likely that it will please christ better to bring or solemnly admit infants into the church , or to shut them out ; and whether these words of christ so plain and earnest will not be a better plea at judgment for our admitting infants , than any that ever the anabaptists brought will be to them for refusing them . answ. mr. b. wanting proof fals here to his rhetorick , which elsewhere he falsly chargeth on me as my fault , but is indeed the chief part of his book , and prevails much with the most of readers . but it is the property of childish persons to be affrighted with such mormo's . i grant that the passages of christ were by the evangelists taken not for small circumstantials , but doctrines of moment for the churches information : yet not teaching infants visible church-membership and baptism . what ever christian i be , i have read over the texts impartially , and considerately as i think this and other writings shew , and i do declare in the presence of god that these passages do confirm me in this truth , that it is not the will of christ that infants should be baptized , because he neither baptized , nor appointed these to be baptized , and that the words of christ here are so impertinent that they are more likely to be a plea against infant baptizers who on such weak conjectures go against the plain institution of christ matth. . . mark . . . and the constant use of the apostles and first ages . and i do further declare that on my most serious studies i do resolve notwithstanding the evasions they bring , that the plea they make hence for infant baptism , and that which is alleaged of their being disciples , visible church-members , in the covenant , doth as well tie them to admit them to the lords supper as to baptism , and that in refusing to admit them to baptism we have as good a plea and better at judgment then they have in refusing to admit them to the lords supper . nor is it to me any other than a sad sign either of injudiciousness or slothfulnes in searching after the truth , or prejudice , or adhering to mens sayings out of reverence of their persons , or faction or some such like evil quality both in ministers and people even those of tender consciences that they still retain so gross an abuse as infant baptism is upon such weak reasons as they do , and neglect yea and oppose the baptism of believers so manifestly commanded by christ and practised by his apostles . but i must follow mr. b. but what saith mr. t. against this ? why . . he saith , it was some extraordinary blessing to them that christ intended apol. p. . answ. . it was a discovery of their title to the kingdom of heaven . it was such an extraordinary blessing that included the ordinary . if extraordinary blessing the● much more ordinary . it was such as the disciples should have known that these should be admitted to , or else christ would not have been displeased . answ. it is true i give this reason why i conceive that [ of such ] included those infants as conceiving from the circumstances of the thing that christ intended some extraordinary blessing to them , and declaration concerning them . and in my examen pag. . i say , christs action in this business is proper to him as the great prophet of the church and extraordinary , and therfore yeilds no ground for an ordinary rule of baptizing infants by the ordinary ministery , no more than christs whipping buyers out of the temple , though related by the four evangelists , for an ordinary practise answerable thereto . now this is not denied by mr. b. but he says , it was such an extraordinary blessing as included the ordinary : if extraordinary blessing , then much more ordinary . but . these things are said without proof . . their falshood is shewed , and the rest is answered before . he adds , but mr. t. saith , apol. pag. . that [ the reason of christs anger was their hindring him in his design , not the knowledg they had of their present visible title ; this is but a dream . ] to which i answer , . mr. t. is as bold to speak of christs thoughts without book , and to search the searcher of hearts , as if he were resolved to make christs meaning be what he would have it . . what design was it that christ had in hand ? was it any other than the discovery of his mercy to the species of infants , and to those among others ? and a presenting them as a patern to his followers , and to teach his church humility and renovation , and to leave them an assurance against anabaptists , that it is his pleasure , that infants should not be kept from him . answ. . there was no such boldness in my speech as mr. b. rashly , and like a calumniator chargeth me with , but such as must be granted true , if we conceive christ to have acted as a rational being that propounds an end or design in his actings . . the last of the designs mr. b. mentions , assuring that it is his pleasure that infants should not be kept from him ; meaning by not baptizing them , is his figment . his design i knew without searching christs heart immediately by reading his facts , which shew his ends to be . the blessing those infants . . teaching doctrine concerning such . . shewing himself thereby the great prophet of his church , and bestower of blessings . . saith mr. b. how did the disciples hinder christs design ? not by hindring him immediately , but by rebuking those that brought the infants . . if this were no fault in them , why should christ be displeased , and much displeased at it ? and how could it be their fault to hinder people from bringing infants to christ , if they might not know that they ought to be admitted ? and could they know of christs private intents and designs ? were there but this one consideration hence to be urged , i du●st challenge mr. t. to answer ( as far as modesty would permit a challenge ) that is , if christ had intended onely that humility or docibleness should be commended from these infants as an emblem to his disciples , then it could be none of their fault to forbid bringing of them to christ ; for how could they know what use christ would make of them ? or by what emblem he would teach them ? or when he would do it ? all the creatures in the world may be emblems of some good ; and must they therefore permit the bringing of all to christ ? christ had not told them his design before hand to teach them by these emblems ; and when they knew his minde they desisted . answ. they might know prophets did bless persons even little ones , they knew that matth. . . christ had before familiarly used a little childe , and so was not averse from them , they knew or might know that christ was the great prophet that was to come into the world , that he made it his work to do good , that he did permit all sorts of persons that came for healing or other blessings to come to him , and therefore it was their fault to hinder christ in this design , and to hinder any that came to him for his blessing . i neither say that his design was onely to teach humility by these as an emblem , nor that they knew or might know what use christ would make of these infants . mr. bs. challenge is upon a mistake , as if i affirmed , that christ would have those infants brought onely to teach humility by them , when the very words he cites are to the contrary . i am weary with answering such meer cavils of a man , who if he were not set on wrangling , might by heeding my words answer himself . . saith he , if it had been onely for the present design , then christ would have spoke but of those individual infants , and have said , suffer those now to come : but it appears from the text , . that it was not those individuals more than others that the disciples were offended at , or disliked should be brought ; but the species , or those infants because infants . . and that christ doth not onely speak against their hindring those individuals , but the species , and lays them down a rule and command for the future as well as for the present that they should suffer little children to come to him , and not forbid them . answ. it is in all the evangelists 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which notes the children then brought , and no other , though i deny not but this fact and the reason thereof were a rule for the future as well as for the present , yet not either for the apostles or any successors to lay hands on them , or baptize them ; but for them , if any more infants were thus brought to christs person , that his own hands might be layd on them , that they should permit it . . saith mr. b. and he doth not command this upon the reason of any private design , but because of such is the kingdom of heaven . answ. mr. b. still mistakes me , as if i had said [ private design ] that is a design proper to those infants onely ; whereas my words were [ present design ] which i shew before what it was , and thereby it may be easily conceived i meant such a design as tended to shew his office , readiness to do good , and interest that infants and such as were like them might have to the kingdom of heaven . . saith he , and where mr. t. saith , it was not from any knowledg they had of their present visible title ; i answer , who said it was ? did mr. blake ? no ; but it was a thing the disciples ought to have known , that infants are welcom to christ , and that of such is the kingdom , and therefore because of such is his kingdom , they should not be kept from him ? god will not be much displeased with men for being ignorant of that which they ought not to know . answ. mr. blake in his answer to my letter had said pag. . they ( the infants brought to christ ) had a present visible title such as the apostles ought to have known , and this he gives as the reason why christ was so much displeased with the disciples forbidding them to be brought . to which my words are rightly opposed . nor is any thing put on mr. blake but his own words . if mr. b. will not say that christs anger was from any knowledg the apostles had of the infants present visible title , then he must acknowledg the apostles had no knowledg of the visible church-membership of infants then , or visible title to one church privilege which shews that in christs church no infants were then counted visible church members , else these could not but know it . nor is there any thing in the text that shews that christ was angry with them for not knowing this , nor did this teaching inform them in this , nor did christ admit them as mr. blake saith , to a church privilege , nor if it were true that the blessing were a church privilege common to all church-members , yet infants were as capable of baptism as of it , sith the institution of baptism is otherwise . to me it is a strong presumption that the apostles understood not christs words and deeds as importing church privilege conferred on those infants which did infer a title to baptism , as mr. blake imagins , in that the apostles did not baptize them , which is confessed by some paedobaptists , and appears both in that no such thing is enjoyned them by christ , or related as done by them , and what was done to them is related as done by christ himself who did not baptize john . . and it is said matth. . . when he had put his hands on them he departed thence , and with him his disciples , as appears by the speeches of them upon occasion of the yong mans conference with christ , which presently followed . now if the apostles knew not such baptizability of infants there is no likelihood that christs words or blessing proved such baptizability . if they did know it , and yet did them not right , no doubt christ would have been more angry for their not baptizing them , then for rebuking those that brought them . and whereas mr. b. blesseth christ for his discovery concerning infants as he construes it , i bless god that hath shewed me the frivolousnes of mr. bs. arguings , and i say of such as are led away with such trifling reasons , as the apostles sayd cor . . if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant . as for his observation in the close of the chapter it s like the rest . for christs calling his disciples little children and the apostles so calling christians shews love and tendernes , but not that infants are visible church-members , no more then christs calling the same his lambs and sheep , john . , , &c. shews that sheep and lambs are visible church-members . thus much for answer of that chapter of m. b. sect . xviii . the . chapter of mr. blakes vindic. foed . about christs speech of little children , matth. . . is answered , and my sayings in my postscript vindicated . mr. blake since the publishing of my postscript to my apology in reply to his answer to my letter in his book intituled vindic. foed . c. , . sect . . hath published somewhat that is to be further examined . he saith , they looked upon christ ( as it seems ) as a great prophet highly in favour with god , and such were wont to bless in the name of god , and their blessing was highly prized , and hands were used to be imposed on persons in blessing , gen. . . which i allow . he sets down six positions , the first of which having confirmed , he speaks thus of me . mr. t. brought his reasons against this , to have nipt all in the bud , but those he hath quit , and is brought to confess that he contradicted himself in them , and hath not a word to excuse his false quotation out of mark , concerning scandalizing , onely excusing himself that he delivered himself doubtfully in them . apol. . answ. it is true i brought in my examen p. . piscators reasons in his observ. . on matth. . . to prove the little children matth. . . . not to have been infants , but boyes who were capable of instruction , which it is true i say in my apol p. . i d●d not stick to , nor need i sith at first i said examen pag. . onely , it is doubtfull whether these were infants or no. nor is it truely said by mr. bl. that i excused my self , as if i had been in a fault . for it is true which i alleged , not onely piscator conceiving they were not infants , but estius also annot. ad marc. . . saying it is not certain that they were infants which could neither speak nor g● . which very doubtfulness doth weaken the argument thence for infant baptism , yet i had no reason to stick to that , there being other answers sufficient besides . not is it true which he saith , that i am brought to confess i contradicted my self in the reasons brought , and that they were my reasons , for i expresly said they were piscators reasons , and therefore though piscator should contradict my exposition of matth. . . in those reasons i need not own it , much less do i confess that i contradict my self in them , as mr. blake falsely chargeth me as one that cares not what he prints so he may fully me with a black coal . nor was any false quotation out of mark used by me , i onely brought piscators words & de quali non scandalizando ibidem monet , which if he misapplied to infants , and thereby crossed my interpretation of matth. . , . he opposed himself , though i think neither piscator nor my self , were guilty of any self-contradiction , but mr. bl. of mistake and calumny . mr. bl. saith he knows not that any in print hath maintained it that little children brought to christ were diseased so as to have need of cure . but there is now a book in folio written by mr. samuel . fisher intituled baby baptism meer babism , in which p. : are these words , that he should touch them , and put his hands on them and pray , no question 't was in order to healing , for 't was at a time when he healed many others , if you compare this passage as 't is in matth. . with the first and second verses of the chapter : yea v. . 't is plainly expressed what he did , i. e. he laid his hands upon them and departed thence ; besides luke says , they brought little children to him also that he should touch them : which [ also ] shews that others were brought too , as sick folks commonly were , because virtue went out of him , so that as many as touched him were made perfectly whole . nor do i think mr. blakes reasons sufficient to countervail the other : for though the disciples well knew that it was usual with christ to cure those that laboured under infirmities of all ages , yet they sometimes shewed their unwillingness to have persons trouble christ about diseased persons as matth. . . luke . . and whereas mr. bl. saith , the evangelist would never have concealed this reason and mentioned another , if he mean it of the reason why the disciples rebuked the bringers of the little children , the truth is the evangelists mention no reason at all of the disciples rebuke , if he mean it of the reason why christ would have them brought , such reason stands well with this , that the children were diseased , brought to christ to be cured , and cured by christ. i had said , there is no certainty onely conjecture that they were the children of believers , mr. bl. sets down his third position thus , these were infants of such parents that were in covenant with god , which he proves matth. . . & . , . rom. . . this farther appears by that which they requested for these infants : this mr. t. seems to yeild ; they came ( saith he ) to christ upon the conceit that he was a prophet , and so they might bring children to him to be blessed ; and farther says , if this reason prove any thing , it is that the childrens parents were jews , apol. pag. . which is all that we contend for ; the jews as yet were in covenant . answ. . the reasons of mr. bl. some of them prove rather the bringers to be jews than the parents . . the proving the parents to be jews ( if any do prove it ) is not a proof that they were believers , for there were a great part , if not the greatest part by much of the jews unbelievers , john . , . and what he sayes , the jews as yet were in covenant , if he mean it of all the jews , and of the covenant of grace in christ it is palpably false , contradictory to the apostles determination rom. . , . where it is expresly resolved that all the natural children of abraham and israel were not at any time children of the promise : if he mean it of any other covenant , or promise of god , or of some of the jews , it would nothing avail him for his purpose , though his proposition were granted him . his fourth proposition is thus exprest , these infants themselves were in covenant , and stood in relation to christ , bearing his name , and being of his people ; and were not as heathens in their present state without christ , aliens from the common-wealth of israel , and strangers from the covenant of promise . this is evident by their free admission by christ , and the reason by him given . when this was prest upon mr. t. in solemn disputation , he took time to consider , and after more than two years in his examen , we have an answer which shame will not suffer him to own . but in his apology doth disclaim , yet not convinced by mr. m. my self , or any other : it is enough with me , if the truth is confest ; if the truth may have the honor , i am satisfied . answ. were i nor sufficiently acquainted with mr. bls. charges without cause , i should be jealous of my self that there is some thing done by me which might occasion this imputation . what was prest on me in the disputation in london , anno . and what time or for what reason i took time to answer after . years elapsed , i cannot trust in my memory to inform me . what answer i gave in my examen which in my apology i disclaim , and shame will not now suffer me to own , concerning this proposition of mr. bl. and its proof , it is such a riddle to me that i cannot yet tell how to understand it , except i have mr. bls. heifer to plough with . sure i am , this kinde of crimination which mr. bl. useth , is very unsuitable to a clear and solid disputant thus by dark flirts , and quips to abuse me ; but i think it best to slight his charge , presuming intelligent men will be little moved with it . as for his position , the terms being ambiguous , and especially the term [ in covenant ] being used ( as i often complain ) in such variety of senses or rather sometimes non-sense by paedobaptists , that it seems to be used by them to elude rather than to inform , it may be either granted or denied as the terms are explained , and if this did occasion me to take time to answer it i did therein prudently , and if after two or ten years my answers be various they are so upon due considerations ; for present i grant , those infants ( if they were infants ) mentioned matth. . . were in the covenant of saving grace , stood in relation to christ as chosen in him , and in that respect bare his name as his bre●heren , were of his invisible people , not as heathens in their present state without christ being given to him , nor aliens from the common-wealth of the israel of god the invisible church of the elect , nor strangers from the covenant of promise , that is , the covenant of promise commensurate with election of grace , and this i grant to be evident of those particular persons if not by their free admission to christ , yet by the reason by him given , it being supposed that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of such ] is meant of them as well as of those that were like them in humility . but if the position be understood of being in covenant either by their own act of cove●anting , or that which is called by paedobaptists in their non-sense or proper gibberish the outward covenant , or that it be meant that they stood in relation to christ as visible members of the christian church in their present state while they were infants , i deny it to be true , or that it is evident by their free admission by christ , and the reason by him given . mr. bls. fifth position is , they were admitted upon a common right , equally belonging to all infants of covenanting parents , and not by virtue of any extraordinary privilege , peculiar to them , and not common to other . this is plain , saith he , . by the general admission which he gives to infants on this occasion ; suffer little children come to me , and ( as mr. t. more than once observes ) extraordinarium non facit regulam communem , here is a general rule , all have admission , and therefore there is nothing extraordinary . . it was such a right that the disciples of christ ought to have understood , as plainly appears by christs sore displeasure conceived against them , for forbidding their admission to him , and that must be a known right , and not secret . answ. . there is not a word in the text to prove that they were admitted upon any right to their admission as due to them , and which might be claimed for them , but they were admitted out of grace . . there is nothing in the text to prove they were the children of covenanting parents , or that they were admitted out of any respect at all to their parents state , whatever it were . as for mr. bls. reasons . to the . i say , the words are a command onely for those little children , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , suffer the little children , to wit them brought to come to me ; nor doth it appear by any after instance of christ or his apostles that this was understood as a general rule , that all should have admission . . were it granted that this rule of christ did reach to others besides those then brought , yet there is nothing in the text to prove this rule of admission to be onely of infants of covenanting parents or to these or any other by reason of right from their covenanting parents . yea rather if any right be intimated it is the personal right of the infants , for of such is the kingdom of god. . it is true , the disciples of christ ought to have understood they were to be admitted , but that this was the reason why they ought to know they were to be admitted because of their known right is imagined but not proved . and how or for what reasons they might know they were to be admitted is shewed above in answer to mr. b. mr. bl. adds , mr. t. indeed says , they were not admitted out of any known right common to others , but a perculiar privilege as being elected , for which he quotes piscator ; when as he hath heard ( and replies nothing ) that piscator syllogistically concludes the contrary . answ. i said not , they were admitted out of a peculiar privilege as being elected , nor for this did i quote piscator , and therefore in my animadversions in my postscript i made no reply to mr. bl. in this thing . my words in my examen pag. , . were these . . let it be granted they were the infants of believers and that it is said , of these is the kingdom of god , it may be as piscator observes referred not to their present estate , as if for the present they were in the kingdom of god that is believers and justified ; but that they were elect persons , and so in time of them should be the kingdom of god : in which i do not at all assign the reason why the little children were to be admitted to come to christ , nor do i quote piscator for it , and therefore mr. bl. mis●ecites my words , but shew how it might be true that of those infants was the kingdom of god , yet in their present estate they neither believers nor justified . against which piscator is so far from concluding syllogistically ( as mr. bl. says ) that disputing against the lutherans affirming infants to be believers because of christs words , matth. . . in his observe . out of that v. he sayth thus , deinde etiamsi ponatur , sermonem hic de infantibus esse : tamen non potest hinc certò concludi illos praeditos esse ●ide . et●nim infantium potest esse regnum coe●orum , etiamsi non credant , dummodo sint electi : which are the effect of my words . and for the rest that follows in mr. bl. about christs design , and the disciples duty to know it , and their sin in being ignorant of it : there is answer before in the answer to mr. b. nor is there a word in my writing that tends to this , that either they knew or were bound to know the election of those infants , or that christ was angry with them for not knowing it : i have often said , it was either because they heeded not some particular intimation of his minde concerning those infants , or some general truth concerning christs office , and his readiness to do good to all sorts of persons , as there was opportunity offered , from which he ought not to be hindered by them . i do not confess , as mr. bl. sayth of me , that elect infants might be baptized , were they known : but that elect infants being actual believers , if they were known might be baptized , and therefore i need not fear christs displeasure for not admitting elect infants to baptism , no not though they were known to be elect , except they were known to be believers , much less for not admitting to baptism those that are neither known to be elect nor believers : but mr. bl. hath just cause to fear the displeasure of christ for admitting to baptism those that are neither known to be elect , nor believers , but infants of parents who are manifestly children of the devil , covenant-breakers , &c. according to his doctrine in opposition to mr. firmin vindic. foed . cap. . which is a higher degree of profanation of the ordinance of baptism , than many paedobaptists fall into . mr. bls. sixth position is , they are here admitted by our saviour christ to a church-privilege . this appears numb . . , , &c. to the end of the chapter . the israel of god are under the blessing , little ones are ordered to be received to this blessing , little ones therefore are of his israel , deut. . . these are the blessed of the lord upon this account , jer. . . children are within this number , they are the inheritage of the lord , psal. . . and consequently admitted by our saviour christ to this privilege of a blessing . answ. . mr. bls. position is ambiguous , . it is uncertain whether he mean it of christs laying on hands , or his prayer also , and blessing with it , which is the church-privilege . . whether he make it a privilege of the visible or invisible church . ▪ whether he will have these to be a constant church-privilege . . to whom he will have it a church-privilege . . by whom it is to be done since christs ascension , whether by apostles onely , or bishops , or presbyters . all the proof he brings for blessing , as a church-privilege , is the prayer of aaron and his sons , for the whole congregation of the children of israel , which how it proves christs laying on of hands , and praying or blessing of a few little children , ( when christ was neither aaron nor any of his s●●s ) to be a church-privilege , such as was aaron and his sons blessing , which belonged to the levitical priesthood , i see no● . mr. bls. arguing is like as if his wits went a wool-gathering . this , saith he , appears numb . . , , &c. what is that which he saith appears ? it should be his sixth position , they are here admitted by our saviour christ to a church-privilege : but his conclusion is , little ones therefore are of his israel ; and this is proved by a syllogism that is either faulty in that there are four terms , or else it is in the second figure of all affirmatives . if it be said that mr. bl. infers from that and the rest his position , neither is that true : for his conclusion is this , and consequently admitted by our saviour christ to this privilege of a blessing ; which though not denied by me , yet is neither his sixth position , nor any thing in the texts he brings proves it , which are all impertinently alleged by him , and the last especially , which he seems to understand , as if they were said to be the heritage of the lord , as if they were the lords peculiar possession , whereas the meaning is psalm . . that children are such a blessing to parents , that they are an heritage given by the lord , as ainsworth rightly expounds it ; and so an house-privilege rather than a church-privilege is there meant , as the words following shew . mr. bl. had said , pag. . of his answer to my letter , there is no direct precedent for baptism in particular , but for church-privileges of which infants are capable , on which i inferred , if [ but ] be adversative , ( which must be granted if mr. bl. speaks sense ) then mr. bl. grants that infants are capable of church-privileges , not of baptism . to this mr. bl. replies , . that i make a great triumph of his speech . . that i leave out that which would fully explain his meaning . . that his meaning is , this act of christ is no direct precept for baptism , but of church-priledges in general . . if i can make it good that baptism is no church-privilege i have wrested this argument out of his hand , and that this text as to the argument fals , otherwise it is of force and an undeniable consequence . answ. . i said truly , that grant which mr. bls. words ( if he understand himself ) implies , overthrows all his dispute , and is a triumph ( if it be to be so called ) on a victory . . i left out nothing which being put in would have hindered the inference i make : but mr. bl. as if he were ashamed of his own words , leaves out in his explication the words [ of which infants are capable ] from whence i made my inference . . his own explication makes the matter worse . for , . if this act of christ be a direct precept of church-privileges in general , then it is of baptism in particular , being a church-privilege , that which is said of the genus being true ( as logicians say ) of the species , quicquid praedicatur de genere praedicatur de specie . whence it follows mr. bl. speaks in consistencies . . it follows also , that if it be a direct precept for to admit infants to church-privileges in general , then it is to admit them to the lords supper , to ordination , for these are church-privileges . if he mean no more than this , that they are to be admitted to prayer for them , and that is the church-privilege he means , i should grant it , and accordingly when desired i do both publish the names , days of infants birth , and pray for them . . what he would gather from hence , by necessary consequence i wrest out of his hands , i think easily , without gratifying socinians , antibaptists , ( who if they triumph over antipaedobaptists , and beat them down with their own weapons in the parts w●●re mr. bl. lives , the more shame for them , who betray by their unskilfulness so good a cause ) with this , that baptism is no church-privilege . his arguments are thus formed , cap. . sect . . they which are admitted to church-privileges have right to baptism , the leading ▪ privilege ; but infants are admitted to church-privileges , mark . . matth. . . luke . . infants therefore have right to baptism . to which i answer , if he mean by [ church-privileges ] any other than prayer , and the laying of hands on them by christ ; i deny the minor ; if he meant it of them i deny the major . and whereas he makes baptism the leading church-privilege , i grant it is so in order to the lords supper , yet to be among the catechized , commended to god in prayer , may be antecedent church-privileges to baptism . his other argument is this , the children of the kingdom , that with others make up the kingdom of god , have right to baptism ; but infants are the children of the kingdom that with others make up the kingdom of god , mark . . matth. . . luke . . infants therefore have right to baptism . to which i answer . the phrase [ children of the kingdom ] i finde diversly used , matth. . it is appropriated to the jews , and it is spoken of them which shall be cast out into utter darkness . but matth. . . it is meant of the elect , who shall be saved . in the former sense , the major is manifestly false , and the minor can be onely true of jews infants : in the later sense the major proposition is true of children of the kingdom who are visibly such by their profession of faith in christ ; and the minor is false ; if it be meant of such as are invisibly children of the kingdom , the major is denied , and the minor is granted . mr. bl. adds somewhat more about the meaning of the words of christ , [ of such is the kingdom of heaven ] and first he saith , the particle [ such ] cannot here have reference to their qualification , that those that were qualified as these ( in humility and meekness ) had their interest ; so are sheep and doves as well as infants , not proud nor revengefull . answ. this reason is not of force to prove that [ such ] cannot here have reference to the qualification of meekness and humility . for being so expounded [ such ] notes others than the infants , to wit , men that are humble and meek positively , as infants are negatively , and this cannot be sayd of doves or sheep , yet infants may be included as beza doth annot : in matth. . . talium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , horum & similium , ut supra . . which is plainly proved by our lord christs own words mark . . where [ of such v. . ] is [ whosoever receiveth the kingdom of god as a little childe v. . ] and so it is meant matth. . . as i have proved above . nor is mr. bls. reasoning of force , that which the disciples took to be an impediment of force to hinder infants , and a just ground of those that brought them , is that which christ understands in this reproof of the disciples and admission of their infants ▪ but it was their want of growth , their littleness , which the disciples took to be a just impedinent , and which occasioned their reproof , ergo. for the conclusion may be granted , yet this proves not that by [ of such ] is meant in respect of quantity onely , not of quality , but onely that in the words before [ suffer little children to come to me ] quantity is meant not quality , for in those words onely is the reproof of the disciples , and christs admission of infants . the other are a reason of his command , which is good if by [ such ] be meant likeness in quality as well as agreement in quantity . and for mr. bls. paraphrase , it is but his own conceit , that the little children had no need of cure , or that the disciples rebuke was after his model . but enough of this before . mr. bl. excepts against me for saying , the kingdom of heaven is meant of the kingdom of glory , and that on this hinge the answer to the whole argument turns . he saith , i had six exceptions against the orthodox interpretation of this scripture in my examen , being hunted out of all the rest i think to finde s●m sh●lter there . but this is his figment , for though i of mine own accord expressed some onely as doubtfull , and let pass others for more ample conviction of the invalidity of the vain arguing , called falsely orthodox interpretation of this text by paed baptists , yet i did not so much as relinquish one of the exceptions , much less have been hunted from them , as mr. bl. after his pedant que fashion talks . but in opposition to me he first saith , that all hangs not on this , appears , in that our saviour had said enough in his order for admission of these infants on which we can build our conclusion . and then brings his argument , which being answered before there is no need of any more reply to this . yet i add , that of the argument drawn by mr. bl. pag. . of his answer to my letter none that are int●ressed in the church of christ which is his kingdom may be denied an admission to it by baptism , but infants have their interests in the church of christ which is his kingdom , and therefore may not be denied admission by baptism ; the hinge did turn on this point , that by the kingdom of heaven is meant the visible church , into which he would have infants admitted by baptism ; and my speech is true of that argument . mr. blake adds , secondly , for his reasons there is not force in them , . saith he , the kingdom of god must be understood mark . . as it is v. . and luke . . as v. . and matth. . . as it is in both those ; this i prove , because our saviour from their estate infers a likeness to them in others for the same estate , apol. pag. . this argument howsoever it carries more colour than usually is fou●d in mr. t. his reason , yet it is not conclusive . it may be taken more largely in christs argumentation , and in a more restrained sense in his words of instruction and application , as in a place much parallel i shall shew , cor. , . there we have the apostles reproof , v. . and his reason , v. ▪ as in the evangelists we have christs assertion confirming his reproof , v. and his application , v. . now [ saint ] in the apostles reproof is taken more largely than it is taken in his reason . a visible saint is meant in the first place , a real and glorified saint in the second ; visible saints may judg in small matters , for real saints in glory shall judg the world , shall judg angels ; and so it may be here , infants have their present title to the visible kingdom ; and men qualified as infants , shall onely enter the kingdom of glory . answ. i see mr. bl. so pertinacious in what he hath said in this argument , that he is cedere nescius , he knows not how to yeild to any thing against his dictates , though it be never so plain . he denies not mark . . luke . . must be understood of the kingdom of glory for the reason given by me in my postscript the proposition being false , being understood of the visible church ; many proud persons entering therein , as simon magus , diotrephes , &c. but denies it to be conclusive , and therefore must deny the major . but he answers nothing to the proof of it , because our saviour from their estate infers a likeness to them in others for the same estate . whence the argument ariseth . the same estate is meant mark . . which is mean v. . this is proved from the inference of christ which is , as of little children is the kingdom of god , so whosoever doth not receive the kingdom of god as a little childe shall not enter into [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it ] or the same estate , the relative particle plainly notes it to be the same . but the estate mark . . is meant of the kingdom of glory , which is proved , because otherwise the proposition were false : nor is it denied by mr. bl. therefore the argument is most plainly conclusive . mr. bls. answer is either upon a wilfull or heedeless mistake of my argument as if it were onely from the identity of the words in both verses , whereas it was taken from the sameness of estate gathered by the force of our saviours whether application of v. . as mr. bl. terms it , or inference from what he had said v. . and the relative [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it . ] i deny not that it is frequent according to the figure in rhetorick termed antanaclasis to use terms sometimes in the same verse elegantly in a different sense : but it cannot be so here for the reasons given . and yet mr. bls. instance cor. . , . is not right : for cor. ▪ . the term [ saint ] doth not note a glorified saint . for the sense is this , know ye not these now despised saints shall hereafter judg the world , and so though it be true that then they shall be glorified , yet the term [ saints ] is attributed to them according to their present estate of debasement , in which the very emphasis is put . besides if it had been so that in the one v. it noted a visible saint here , and in the other a glorified saint hereafter , yet the same persons were meant in both verses : whereas if mark . . were meant the visible church , who are a number of persons , and v. . were meant an estate of glory , there would be a greater difference than in cor. . , . and therefore mr. bl. doth not rightly say , the one place is much parallel to the other . mr. bl. goes on . his second reason , that christ directs his speech to the disciples already in the visible church , and therefore speaks not of the church visible , i know not how to make up into a reason ; if i understood it , i would either yeild or answer it . answ. the reason is thus formed . the same is meant mark . . which is meant v. . as is before proved . but by [ the kingdom of god ] v. . is not meant the visible church , ergo , neither v. . the minor is thus proved . by [ the kingdom of god ] is meant that estate into which the apostles had not but were thereafter to enter into . for the speech is meant of them as well as others , and directed to them , verily i say to you , and so where the same thing is sayd matth. . . it is sayd to and of them , except ye be converted and become as little children ye shall not enter into the kingdom of the heavens . but the estate the apostles were to enter into was not the visible church , for that they had entered into already , but the kingdom of glory . therefore by [ the kingdom of god mark . . ] is meant the kingdom of glory . mr. bl. adds , the third reason , that the speech mark . . luke . . is like matth. . , ▪ but there it is meant of the kingdom of glory ; ergo , so here , is answered already . if mark . . luke . . be like matth. . , . yet mark . . luke . . which we have in question is unlike matth. . ▪ . answ. . if mark . . be like matth. . , . then also mark . . is in like manner understood the kingdom of heaven , as matth. . , . for it is understood of the same mark . , . as is proved before . . mr. b. conceived them like by putting them together in the chapter before answered , and the new annot. and diodati , whose testimonies are alleged in my postscript . pag. . mr. bl. adds , thirdly , were it granted him , that the kingdom of glory must be understood both in christs reason and application , yet he is nothing holpen . infants have right to the church visible militant , bcause they are in a capacity of entrance into the church triumphant , acts ▪ . the lord added to the church daily such as should be saved ; not necessarily saved , but now ( having entered covenant with god ) they were in a capacity , and therefore added as visible church-members . infants standing in this capacity ought to have admission likewise . answ. it helps me much to answer the arguments drawn from matth. . . for infants visible church-membership , if by the [ kingdom of heaven ] be not meant the visible church , for then it is not there affirmed , that infants are visible church-members . nor doth mr. bls. reserve regain the loss , to prove it by consequence , for his speech is not true , infants have right ( meaning of admission ) to the visible church , because they are in a capacity of entrance into the church triumphant . nor is it proved acts . . where mr. bl. perverts the meaning of the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is in english [ the saved ] that is either [ the saved from that crooked generation v. . by their effectual calling as tim. . . tit. . . ] or by an enallage of tense [ such as should be saved ] and that certainly or necessarily ] as cor. . . not as mr. bl. they were in a capacity to be saved , ( for so were those that were not called ) and therefore added as visible church-members . nor is mr. bls. proposition gathered thence : for neither is there any thing in the words to prove that then all were added to the church which should be saved , much less which were in a capacity to be saved , or on the contrary that all that were added to the church should be saved : much less that their right to be added to the church was from this , that they should be saved ; it is said , the lord added to the church such as should be saved , it is not said the apostles added them to the church because they were to be saved , yea v. . it is said , that even of those that were to be saved , they gladly received the word ; and then were baptized and added . so that if the text be rightly looked into there is nothing to be gathered thence of the persons right to be added to the church , or the ministers duty to add to the church by baptism , persons meerly upon this consideration , that they shall be saved , but onely that it is the course of gods providence to add to his church such as shall be saved . i yet add that if mr. bls. proposition were granted him , they have a right to the church-visible militant who shall be of the church triumphant , yet this right cannot be claimed but by those who are elect , and therefore from these scriptures so expounded matth. . . acts . . it cannot be proved that any other than elect infants are to be baptized and to be added to the church , not the natural children of true believers , who are many of them non elect ; nor can a minister gather thence , he ought to baptize any of them till he know they are elect , and shall be saved , and therefore they rashly and profanely baptize from hence them , that they have no knowledg of , that of them is the kingdom of glory and that they shall be saved . sect . xix . animadversions on mr. cobbets just vindic. part . . cap. . and the arguings of dr. homes , mr. bailee , mr. fuller , mr. sidenham , from the words and actions of christ to little ones are answered . having answered mr. b. mr. bl. my two eager antagonists i shall add animadversions on mr. thomas cobbet his just vindic. part . . ch . . sect . . . he says without proof that they that brought the infants mentioned luke . . were pious minded parents . . he denies [ of such is the kingdom of god ] to be meant of the kingdom of glory , the contrary whereof is proved in the next section before against mr. blake . . he supposeth , that these words [ suffer little children to come to me ] being granted to contain a rule of suffering little ones of that sort such as those are to come to him and the words [ of such is the kingdom of god ] being expounded of the invisible church it must be conceived that christ must direct them to suffer members of the invisible church to come to him , and then that they may be known . but this is his mistake ; they that expound thus the words [ suffer these little children and other little children in age if any hereafter be brought to my person to be touched , to come to me , and forbid them not as ye have don these . for however they are persons that are not fit to be my hearers ; yet of these now brought and of some other infants which may be brought , and men of years like them in quality is the kingdom of god , the invisible church or the kingdom of glory belongs to them ] may avouch this exposition without supposing their election must come under the cognizance of men , nor need they say that onely such who were elected , were , by this rule so exp●unded to be permitted , to come to christ. . that christ spake of those infants not as an extraordinary inspired prophet is said without proof ; not is it likely , sit● such blessings were never given but by extraordinary inspiration , and christ appoints not the admitting of little children to any , no not to his apostles , but himself . . that he delivered an ordinary rule of ordinary practise and use afterwards is said without proof ; nor is it likely , sith we reade no more of that practise by any of the apostles , nor any rule concerning it after this one act of christ sect. . h● denies that [ of such is the kingdom of heaven might be spoken in reference to the future , that is that they were elect ones , and should in time be of gods kingdom , that is believers , or that they were such as god would bless . for christs words are not , of such may , will or shall be the kingdom of god , nor that they were of his kingdom , because such as he would bless : but rather that they should not be hindered from being blessed of him , because of such is the kingdom of god. to which i answer : that by [ the kingdom of heaven mat. . . and the kingdom of god mark . ▪ ▪ luke ▪ , . ] must needs be meant the kingdom of glory is proved before , & then the sense can be no other than of such is the kingdom of heaven , that is the kingdom of glory belongs to such , as mat. . , . and as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth of ▪ signifie as mark . , &c. and then it must needs be an enallage of tense , as mat. ▪ . as pisc. sch . on mat. . . est pro futurus est enallage temporis , or as pisc. sch . on matth. . . ipsis destinatum est & dabitur , and this is all one as to say they are elect , which is piscators term in his observation on matth. . . as i shewed above in answer to mr. blake , and thus [ of such is the kingdom of god ] refers to the present estate as elect , to their future as possessours of glory hereafter . and so to mr. cobbets objection i answer , matth. . . it is not said , theirs shall be the kingdom of heaven , but [ is ] and yet it must be understood of present title and future possession , so here . and for his exception at my words , that the reason may be given why these infants did belong to gods kingdom , because they were such as christ would bless , is not avoided by saying , they were blessed , because of gods kingdom . for both ways the reason is good , they should not be hindered from blessing , because theirs was the kingdom of heaven the end of blessing , or they should not be hindered from blessing because he intended to bless them , and therefore theirs was the kingdom of heaven . either way that i intended to prove examen pag. . is evinced , that the reason why theirs was the kingdom of heaven is not from their parents faith ( which should have been if it were meant , as paedobaptists would , of interest in the visible church ) but gods election or christs blessing . i have often said , that if christs minde had been that infants should be baptized , he would have commanded these little ones to have been baptized for an example . to this mr. cobbet answers , that according to our principles they were elect , heirs of the kingdom of glory : now why should not or were not these infants at least baptized ? answ. because though elect , yet were not believers or disciples by profession . but you would allow , saith he , such to be baptized if of grown years . answ. no , untill they were believers or disciples , not barely because elect and heirs of glory . but you say , saith he , that if by extraordinary revelation you knew an infant to be sanctified , you would baptize it , because the extraordinary revelation would authorize it , and the words of peter , acts . . and the institution , matth. . . and then it would follow , . that persons may be disciples without being outwardly taught . . it is agreeable to the rule that persons without personal profession of faith should be baptized . albeit extraordinary things done besides rule cross not ordinary rule ; yet neither extraordinarily nor ordinarily is any thing to be done , which is in it self contrary to rule . . it was the minde of christ they should be baptized , as that they should be instructed , though it be not expressed . answ. . it is true i grant in my examen , p. , , . upon the grounds mentioned , that an infant regenerated , united to christ , sanctified by the spirit upon extraordinary revelation of this might be baptized ; and the like is said by mr. blackwood apostolical bapt. p. . and for those that have the thing signified let them make it appear to any church of christ , and they cannot deny their baptism . but yet it follows not that these infants might be baptized which are mentioned matth. . . for though their election be mentioned , yet not their regeneration and sanctification . now praedestinatio nil ponit in praedestinato , and therefore it makes not disciples or believers at present , but assures it as future : but we are to baptize actual disciples and believers , not future . but however , saith he , they may be disciples who are are not outwardly taught . answ. who denies it ? yet they must be learners of christ in their own persons . but then , saith he , a person may be baptized without personal profession . answ. it is granted , when god supplies the absence of it by his revelation otherwise : nor is this contrary to the rule , sith that is , to baptise known disciples , who are ordinarily known by their personal profession , though in this case gods extraordinary act supplies that want . yet mr. cobbets saying is not right , that neither extraordinarily nor ordinarily is any thing to be done , which is in it self contrary to rule . for abrahams killing his son was in it self contrary to rule , yet upon extraordinary command it was to be done . and for the third , though it might be conceived christs minde , that the children should be instructed , though it be not mentioned , luke . , . because it was a duty of perpetual equity by virtue of the moral law : yet baptising infants being a meer positive rite , that hath no reason or warrant but institution , is not to be conceived christs minde , without some declaration , which he neither then when he had so fit opportunity , nor at any time else expressed . there are some more things in mr. cobbet censurable , as that he makes the infants paterns as well of receiving the kingdom at least externally , as of the affection and disposition with which it is to be received ; whereas , ● . the words matth. . ● . do plainly make them paterns onely of humility , and such good dispositions as are in children fit to be imitated . . in mr. cobbets sense the words of christ would be false , [ whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little childe externally by an initial seal or some other visible sign , as laying on hands , &c. shall not enter therein . ] for then that popish doctrine , or rather more rigid than popish must be maintained , that no unbaptized martyr or other shall enter into the kingdom of heaven . and in like manner it is gratis dictum , without proof sayd [ of such like infants , like them in covenant , and church interest in god is his kingdom , ] there being not a word in the text that leads to this paraphrase , and the plain meaning is before expressed . that which mr. cobbet sayth in answer to the reason of piscator , why they were not infants because christ called them ; i conceive is not an answer . for what he sayth , that things ascribed to the children are rather to be understood of parents , and he instanceth in levi's paying tyths in abraham , heb. . is not right . for , . that which is sayd of levi is to be understood of levi , not of abraham ; for it were neither good sense nor to his purpose , to say , abraham payd tyths in abraham . . if things done by a parent and related by the holy ghost as mysterious passages are imputed to the children , yet it is absurd to understand in an historical narration of facts that to be meant as spoken to the parents , which was spoken to the children . other things i let pass , which oppose not my dispute but others : and what things he speaks in answer to my objections , and what concerns the answering the imaginary absurdities arising from our doctrine in that chapter , i refer to another place . this is sufficient in answer to what he sayth in opposition to me about that passage luke . , . dr. homes in his animad . on my exercit. pag. , . argues thus , to whom indefinitely as such , heaven and the blessing of and for heaven belongs , to them as such the seal of converance , and confirmation of heaven and that blessing belongs . for if the land be mine the deeds and seals of conveyance are mine . but heaven and the blessing of and for heaven belongs indefinitely to such little children , more , whiles little children ; so the text here expresly . to them belong , or ( which is all one ) of such is the kingdom of heaven , and he took them in his arms and blessed them . therefore to little children indefinitely belongs the seal of conveyance or confirmation of heaven , and the blessing of heaven , which in the new testament , according to the time christ spake , is baptism . answ. neither is it true , that baptism is the seal of conveyance of heaven , and the blessing for it , that i finde in scripture , but the spirit , ephos. . . ephes. . . cor. . . nor is it true , that heaven and the blessing of heaven belong to little children indefinitely as such , that is as little children . for then it should belong to all little children , nor to them as children of believing parents , for it should belong to all children of believing parents , but as they are elect . and to these i grant baptism belongs when they are called , and believe , not before ; as a conveyance may be made to a childe , yet he is not to have it in his hands till he come to understand it , and is fit to make use of it . so that the major may be denied if [ the belonging of the seal ] be meant in respect of present use or possession . and the minor is to be denied , if [ as such ] be meant [ as little children , or children of believers ] and the inference on the conclusion is denied , the seal belongs to them , ergo , baptism . other arguments of dr. homes are answered in my apology pag. . though briefly yet sufficiently . nor hath mr. geree in his v●ndiciae vindiciarum ch . . brought any thing worth rejoyning in reply to my answer to his sixth argument in my apology pag. , . it is false which he saith , in admitting to ordinances we proceed not upon judgment of certainty but charity , nor is a judgment of charity grounded upon hope of what a person may be any rule to us in admitting to baptism , for if so , then hope of a profane persons amendment were enough to baptize him . mr. baille●'s reasoning in his anabaptism pag. . [ since imposition of hands a seal of christs grace and blessing , and of the kingdom of heaven belonged to infants ; that therefore baptism a seal of that same kinde , when once the lord had solemnely at his ascension appointed it to be the ordinary seal of initiation into his church ought not to be denied to them ] is but dictates . . he says , baptism is a seal of the same kinde with christs laying on hands , which he saith without proof , nor is it true . for. . christs laying on hands was an act extraordinary done by christ himself as the great prophet , but baptism was an act of ordinary ministration not done by christ himself but his disciples , john . , . . baptism was the duty of the baptized , acts . . not onely the baptizers , but not so laying on hands by christ. . if baptism be a seal of the same kinde with laying on of hands , then laying on hands is a seal , and a sacrament of the same kind with baptism , which is counted a point of popery . . to shift off the objection , that christ appointed not those infants to be baptized , he allegeth that christ did after solemnly appoint it at his ascension , and since then it ought to be done : which intimates that infants were not to be baptized before , but after the ascension . but , . the appointment and practise of baptism was before , if not as solemn , and the same use and order of it , and therefore this reason is of no force why others should be baptized after , more than these before the ascension . . it will follow that jews infants were not to be baptized till after the ascension of christ , which overthrows his and other paedobaptists argument about the seal and covenant , which if of any validity , prove infant baptism as well before the ascension as after . . it is false , that christ at his ascension appointed infant baptism any more than before , the commission of christ and the apostles practise shew the contrary . therefore i deny his argment in the words set down as being without proof or shew of it . mr. thomas fuller in his infants advocate ch . hath these words st. john addeth ch . . . and there are also many other things which jesus did which are not written , amongst which for ought appears to the contrary , the baptizing of these infants might be one of them ; wherein he runs to the popish plea for their unwritten traditions , and forgets that besides what i have alleged before to shew those infants were not baptized , there appears something to the contrary out of john . , . where it is said , that jesus baptized not , but his disciples , and therefore the baptizing of those infants could not be one of the things which jesus did though not written john . . his argument , they were capable of a blessing , therefore of baptism ; hath been often denied and answered before . there came to my hands also the exercitation of mr. cuthbert sidenham , in which ch . . he terms antipaedobaptism denying infants with scorn a little water , and after , this text matth. . , . if there were no more , will fly in the consciences one day of the most confident contemners of infants , and their baptism . to which i say , it shews too much youthfull rashness u●fi● for a teacher of a church either to call antipaedobaptists contemners of infants , and their baptism , and their denying infants baptism ( which they do for ought he knows out of tender conscience of not profaning christs ordinance ) an act , of scorn , and to speak of the texts flying in their consciences , who know that he had more reason to expect the flying of this text in his conscience , who in this ( as he doth in the rest of his pamphlet ) makes the objection against his urging it for infant baptism so as that he might put it off with a slight answer , for whereas antipaedobaptists object , if christ hinted their right to baptism , why did he neither baptze them , nor appoint them to be baptized by his apostles ? mr. sidenham leaves out the later part of the objection , and answers . . he baptizeth none . . he did that which was an ordinance usually , in those primitive times , administred after baptism and equal to it in dignity , and so we may argue from this to baptism either inclusively or à majori from the greater , he did such acts to them as are equivalent if not supereminent . but doth mr. sidenham indeed think such petty arguings , which he knows not how to form in a logick way , but in pathetick rhetorick , likely to ●errify our consciences so much , when he himself dares not positively assert , that the laying on of christs hands did include and presuppose baptism , yea he acknowledgeth it to have been extraordinary ; and for his way of proving à majori , he either is ignorant in logick or else might understand , that an argument à majori is not thus ; there is conferred on such a one a greater thing , therefore the less ; christs blessing therefore right to baptism ; for then the argument were good , christ blessed the infants which is the greater , therefore he gave them the lords supper , or made them apostles , or gave them the gift of tongues , which are the less . but an argument à majori is à magis probabili , and so it is not more probable that christ would have them baptized , than that he would bless them , sith they were not meet subjects of the one as of the other . there is nothing else in that chapter but what hath answer before , this is enough to abate the insolency of this scribler . sect . xx. the practice of infant-baptism is not proved acts . . by baptizing a houshold against mr. m. dr. homes , mr. bailee , mr. cook , mr. sidenham , mr. fuller . another text to prove the practise of infant baptism is acts . . and the mention of baptizing housholds elsewhere . from whence mr. m. in his sermon pag. . ( though the assembly leave it out confess . of faith ch . art . . ) would gather examples of the new administration taking place just as the old , and so the practise of infant baptism by good consequence . to which i answered in my examen at large , pag. . &c. . that the new administration is much different from the old , to wit , baptism from circumcision . . that the practise of baptism in all the evangelists is set down of singular persons . . that the practise in the acts of the apostles is differently set down , sometimes of singular persons sometimes of a city , sometimes of families . . where housholds are said to be baptized there is no mention of an infant and the circumstances with other places do shew that luke doth understand onely the believers of the house . what mr. m. replied here to doth yield so much as shews there is no good consequence in this argument . housholds were baptized , therefore infants , sith he saith , it may be granted that a house is sometimes taken for the grown persons in that house . and what else he speaks that is to the point is briefly answered in my apology pag. . and in my postscript sect . . i have sufficiently answered mr. blake his arguing from housholds being the precedent of baptizing , and what he saith vind . foed . pag. . is answered before in this part of the review sect . . dr. homes in his animadv . on my exercit. ch . . pag. . tels us that the syriak in the story acts . . renders it , he was baptized and all the childern of his house , and sure enough a son of eight days old is a son . and if sons of the house then some sons of the father of the house . but he might consider that the same syriak renders v. . they spake the word with him , and with all the sons of his house , which cannot be said of infants . nor is it true that the doctor saith , that the sons of the house are the sons of the father of the house . for as tremelius in his note sayth , it is an hebraism , in which the son of the house is all one with the inhabitants in the house , servants as well as children . as for the evasion which the doctor and m. cook in his font uncovered , pag. ▪ have , that it is said [ all that were in his house , v. . not , of his house ] so that the word might be spoken to the prisoners and others which ran in on the ●ame of the thing , and then he and his were baptized , v. . it is . . without ground and unlikely , that the prisoners should be reckoned in his house when the prison is named distinctly from his house , as v. . & . compared shew , and he took such care about securing the prisoners v. , . and then brought paul and silas out , v. . afore he spake to them or they to him about salvation , nor is it likely that into the house of the jaylour could others get or would attempt it at that time of night . . were it granted yet it no whit avoyd● the objection , which is , that either there were no infants in the house ▪ or else they spake the word to them , which were absurd . but saith , the doctor , they spake the word to the infants , because they should be the better for it , v. . to which i reply , this reason is most gross it being contrary to all use of writers and grammar construction to say he spake the word to infants , to whom he directed not his speech at all , onely because the speech might be for their good . besides he spake the word to all in his house as he spake to the jaylour , it was the same speaking and preaching to the one and the other , and therefore if infants be there meant , the apostle is made as ridiculously to preach to infants , as francis the frier is by the popish legend to preach to a brute . besides the same syriak renders v. ▪ he exulted , and all of his houshold in the faith of god , and tremellius hath this marginal note , to a word sons of the house as a little before . as for what dr. homes with mr. cook adds about rendering 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all over his house , and rendering 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he did skip as in a dance of a galliar with triumph , they are such as having no other approved interprete● for their author , nor indeed agreeing with the gravity and seriousness of the business and the jaylors condition , are justly rejected as meer shifts to avoyd the plain evidence from that and many more places in my examen pag. , . ( which mr. m. yeilded ) that under the term [ houshold ] persons of years onely are meant by luke . as for what mr. baillee in his anabaptism pag. . tels us , that infants are not excepted ; i answer , that infants are plainly excepted from being meant in those speeches , if the things spoken of the houshold cannot be said of infants . but then , saith he , they will be excepted from salvation if they be not comprised under the term [ house ] sith luke ▪ . . salvation is said to come to the house , and acts . . cornelius and all his house should be saved by peters words , and acts . . upon the jaylours faith he and his house should be saved . i answer though infants be not in those passages comprised among the saved , yet it follows not by this interpretation that there is no other tex out of which we may conclude their salvation . and therefore all his inferences of wrong to infants ●s excluding them from salvation . because they are not included in the term [ houshold ] are but calumniatory and his other inferences shall be shewed to be vain in answering mr. b. as for mr. william cooks collections from luke . . acts . . in his font uncovered , pag. . . they require faith of the jaylour , that he and his family might be admitted into a saving estate . they said not that every one of his family must of necessity actually believe and profess , that so his houshold might be saved with him . so ( as he did with zacheus ) god shews here by his servants that he would deal with the jaylour , not standing for the present on strict terms of actual faith of all in his house , if the governour believe , it is enough to put the whole family into a saving estate inchoatively at least in respect of admission into covenant , neither are any to be excluded , but such as by stubborn refusal of the gospel offered deprive themselves of that privilege , i except against them . that he makes one sort of salvation to the believers , and another to his house in the same words and by the same means . . that he imagines a salvation inchoative that shall not be consummate . . that he makes a member of a family to have right to this salvation by the faith and profession of the head of the family , if they do not express their dissent or refusal of it . . that god at some time stands not on strict terms of actual faith of all in a house for salvation . all which are gross conceits and contrary to mark . ● . john . , , &c. in vain likewise doth mr. cuthbert sidenham in his exercit. c. . infer from these passages of saving and baptizing houses , and instances in the old testament of family churches , as if god had cast by an eternal decree this platform , baptism to be administred to families , and so to children . and why not then to servants , and wives , and friends ? are not they of the houshold ? and why doth not mr. sidenham take the whole nation into a church , when the whole nation was taken in formerly in abrahams posterity ? why doth he gather his church with such choice distinguishing some from others ? how doth mr. sidenham cross himself when he interprets luke . . the covenant is not made with him onely but with his house that is his seed , where he appropriates the term [ house ] to seed , and in the next page makes the term house a general phrase , which may sometimes comprehend more , and will have [ all his , acts . . ] to note no servants , which cannot be meant of servants , who are our own as goods and lands are , but not of a man : but must firstly and primarily refer to his children who are begotten of him ; and it may be secondarily to his kinred . in which his strange shiftings may be discerned , sometimes the term [ house ] must note the whole family of which servants and wives are a part , sometimes it must mean the seed , and then straightway it must be a general word comprehending more , and then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , must be meant not servants for they are a mans own but not of a man , and yet kinred secondarily must be meant , though they be not any more , no nor so much of a man as servants . but if we ask mr. thomas fuller in his infants advocate c. . he will tell us , for the jaylor ; that children ( if he had any ) were comprised under the expression of all his , is sufficiently known by satans interpretation , job . . of gods commission , behold , all that he hath is in thy power ; and gods co●senting thereunto , when permitting him by vertue thereof , to destroy all jobs children ; concerning which passage i say . . if [ all his , acts . . ] must be expounded as job . . all that is his , then must the jaylours sheep , and oxen be baptized as well as his children , for they were comprehended under [ all that he had ] . though jobs children were comprehended under [ all that he had ] yet there was never an one an infant : but such as did feast , and might curse god in their hearts . as for dr. homes his question , is any anabaptist sure there were no infants in these families ? i say , . it belongs to him to prove , who brings it for infant-baptism , that there were , and that they were baptized . . yet we are sure from the words none were meant but persons capable of hearing , and believers under the term [ house , acts . , . ] yea , but sayth mr. sidenham , those in his house are a larger term , but when he sp●aks of the baptized he sayth all his or of him ; but how doth it appear that [ all in his house ] is larger than [ all his ] or what can he gather from it but this , that he spake to more than he baptized ; but will mr. sidenham say , he baptized any to whom he spake not ? yea , that a man may see with what raw conceits these scriblers abuse people , who reade such ind●gested pamphlets with examination . his own observation excludes infants . for if [ all that were in his house ] ●e the largest term , then it comprehends [ all his , v. . ] but it notes no infant : for he spake not the word to any infant . therefore by his own observation infants are excluded . but enough of the janglings of these wrangling baby-sprinklers about this text. sect . xxi . that cor. . . proves not the practice of infant-baptism against mr. bailee , mr. cobbet , &c. there is another text which is by mr. cobbet , mr. bailee , dr. homes , mr. philips , and others produced for the practice of infant-baptism , and it is cor. . . mr. bailee in his anabaptism , pag. . argues thus , infants were baptized as well as their parents by moses baptism , ergo , infants as well as their parents ought to be baptized by christs baptism . the antecedent is the apostles , cor. . , ▪ the fathers baptized in the cloud , and in the sea , were the whole people as well young as old ; for no doubt the infants went as well through the cloud and the sea as their parents . answ. . the antecedent may be denied , because it is sayd [ our fathers ] not infants . but sayth mr. cobbet , this is spoken of the church fathers to paul and the gentile church-members , and the young ones were in after ages instruments to convey church-truths and blessings . refut . . it is not sayd our fathers as we are a church , none but abraham that i know is termed a father to the church of christ , he being onely named the father of the faithfull , and they his seed : but either [ our fathers ] notes simply the ancestors that went before , as it is usual to call those our forefathers who were before us in former generations , though they begat us not ; or else if it note their fathers in respect of natural generation , it notes as grotius in his annot in locum , the fathers of us , to wit , hebrews . but it may be sayd , that cannot be , ●ith paul onely was an hebrew , and then it should be my fathers . refut . . it is not unusual to speak of persons in the second person by figure of communication or enallage of persons , when the thing is not true of them but our selves , and when the thing is not true of us but others ; as when we say , we have preached , it is meant of one person that speaks , and thess. . . it is sayd , [ we which are alive , and remain ] and yet none of those that wrote were such , and so [ our fathers ] is no more than the fathers . . but there 's no need of a figure : for the epistle was written by paul and sosthenes , cor. . . and for paul there 's no question he was an hebrew , and sosthenes being a ruler of the synagogue , acts . . and in like manner crispus , v. . and apollo , v. . whom he mentions cor. . . & . . were hebrews , and therefore he saying , [ our fathers ] might well mean our fathers as hebrews . . it doth appear the infants were not meant in that they are onely meant , who were in a state of pleasing or displeasing god , as appears by v. . but so were not infants . . they onely are sayd to be baptized to whom the same thing was signified by the cloud , that is , signified by our baptism ; but to the infants nothing was signified by the cloud and sea , and passing through or under them , for they were not subjects of instruction ▪ capable to know a resemblance , ergo , infants ▪ were not baptized . but sayth mr. bailee , they went through the sea , ergo , they were baptized . answ. so did the beasts also , and yet are not sayd to have been baptized , but those that did or might understand the signification of it . . they that are sayd to be baptized , v. . are all sayd to eat and drink manna and water , and that it was or might have been to them spiritual meat or drink , v. , . but this is not to be said of their infants . for as dr. homes and mr. cobbet grant , the infants did not eat manna cakes , nor is it likely they did drink water , having breast milk , much less is it true that they were spiritual meat or drink to them , or might have been , ergo , they are not meant by the fathers baptized . nor is mr. bailees consequence good . for if the infants might be sayd to be baptized with moses baptism , yet it follows not they are to be baptized with christs , sith moses his baptism was not formal baptism , but similitudinary after a sort , they were baptized , that is , as grotius annot in locum quasi baptiz●ti , as if they had been baptized ; but a rule holds not from similitudinary to formal baptism . but mr. bailee would prove the consequence thus , the reasons which may be brought for the exclusion of infants from being baptized with their parents by christs baptism , militate as much against their being baptized with their parents by moses baptism . therefore if nowithstanding they were admitted to the one baptism , they may as well be admitted to the other . answ. the antecedent of this proof is false ; for in that of moses , the baptism is onely similitudinary in respect of a fact or event , which was no duty : but formal baptism of christ is a duty of the person baptized , mark . . acts . & . . which cannot agree to an infant though the other should . nor is such kinde of shadowy , typical , analogical , similitudinary baptism any more a rule about christian baptism than noahs ark , which had the like resemblance , pet. . . and this reason is confirmed from the text. for if by [ fathers ] are meant infants , v. . and they were baptized , and this must be a rule to us now about baptism of water appointed by christ , which was sayd of het similitudinary baptism , then sith the same are meant by [ fathers , v. , . ] and they are sayd to eat the same spiritual meat and drink , which was christ , which is manifestly meant of the lords supper , by the same reason which mr. bailee brings , infants must not be excluded from the lords supper . yea , but saith dr. homes , they did not eat all the lords supper . refut . they did all eat the same spiritual meat , and drink the same spiritual drink , which if he deny to be meant of the lords supper he deserts protestants and other divines acknowledging it , and may be refuted from the scope of the apostle , which is , to shew that they had in a sort , in respect of signification and use the same sacraments with ours , and yet were not secured thereby when they sinned . but mr. cobbet says , there must be a synecdoche in the later , not all the fathers simply being meant , but such as were capable of making a spiriual use thereof . refut . if [ all our fathers ] must be meant synecdochically , v. , . then also in v. . it being the same term in either , and the sense of them , v. . being meant of as many , v. as v. . yea , but there 's a bar put against infants receiving the lords supper , cor. . . refut . there are more bars , and more express put against infants baptism , acts . . matth. . . mark . . acts . . ephes. . &c. which it seems paedobaptists will leap over , or break down , notwithstanding they are so plainly set up by christ and his apostles to prevent their infant-baptism . that which mr. ainsworth in his dialogue brings out of psalm . . to prove that the israelites were indeed formally baptized with water , is upon mistake , that the water there poured out was on the israelites , whereas his own annotations on the places , and the words of the psalm refer it to what was done to the egyptians , exod. . , . and thus junius and others conceive it . yet were it granted him , there must be a synecdoche in the term [ all the fathers ] for the reasons given , and otherwise beasts as well as infants must be sayd to be baptized . sect . xxii . mr. blakes argument from gal. . . is answered . mr. blake had in his birth-privilege , pag. . argued from gal . . for infant-baptism , and his passages in his arguing i censured as very gross in my examen , part . . sect . . which he seeks to make good answer to my letter , cap. . to which i reply in my postscript sect . yet he hath thought good to reinforce his allegation of that text , and in his vindic. foed . cap. . sect . . he argues thus . fourthly , they that by birth according to the flesh are in the bosom of the church have right to baptism ; but infants by birth according to the flesh are in the bosom of the church , gal. . . infants therefore ought to be baptized . to which i answer , if he mean by [ the church ] the church christian visible , and by [ being in the bosom of it ] having actual visible church membership , i grant the major , and deny the minor , and for the text gal. . ▪ alleged to prove it , am no more induced by mr. bls. arguings to believe that it makes to his purpose , than i am to think the snow is black . for if it were to his purpose , the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , should have this sense , even so now infants by virtue of birth according to the flesh , as being the children of a believer by natural generation , are visible members in the christian church , v. g. of galatia , which is as far from the meaning of the apostle as east from west , if either i or those interpreters i meet with have not lost their common sense . this i prove from the true supplement which must make up the words complete sense . this will be understood by considering , that the whole verse is a compound proposition of that sort which logicians call comparative , as cor. . . the terms 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do shew it to be a comparative proposition , and therein are two parts , the first called the protasis , then he that was born after the flesh , persecuted him that was born after the spirit , that is ( for i think mr. bl. will not gain say this exposition ) ishmael who was born after the flesh being the son of 〈◊〉 the bond-woman , persecuted ( whether by mocking or by some crafty undermining device , ( as heinsius conceives ) isaac who was born after the spirit , by divine virtue according to the promise , as grotius i conceive rightly explains it . the other part is called the apodosis or rendering , wherein that which answers to the forepart first held out is expressed , now that always notes some agreement , correspondence , parity or likeness whether in quantity , quality , action &c. but according to mr. bls. apodosis or reddition , there is no such answerableness , or likeness as hath the shew of a comparison of things equal or alike ( as this is as the affirmative terms shew ) for who would conceive any better then nonsence in such a speech as this , even as ishmael persecuted isaac , so the children of christian believers are visible members in the christian church , it were all one as to say even as esau hated jacob so godly men are heirs of heaven , or have access to god , the absurdity of which is so gross that i am amazed mr. bl. doth not see it or will not confess it , there being no likeness , or shew of answerablenes either in the compared subjects or in the compared predicates . not in the subjects . for in the forepart the term , he that was born after the flesh , is taken in the worser part , as a term importing debasement , bondage , a curse , but in mr. bls. own expression vindic. foed ▪ ch . the term [ he that is born after the flesh ] notes in the better part a natural seed that inheri●s outward privilges yea and that no small one to be a visible church-member by vertue of birth after the flesh . and then in the predicates there is less answerablenes . for what answerablenes between persecuting him that was born after the spirit who resembles the true believer , and having right to outward privileges as visible church-membership and baptism by being born of a believer according to the flesh by natural generation , and this competent to infants ? but the supplement is this . even so now the jew who is carnal seeking righteousness by observing the law , and n●● through the spirit waiting for the hope of the righteousness which is by faith , now persecuteth by words and deeds the christian believer whether jew or gentile , who is born after the spirit , that is who by the spirit doth wait for the hope of the righteousness which is by faith gal. . this supplement is cleared to be genuine from the scope and series of the apostles doctrine before , and deductions after and the constant exposition of interpreters . the apostles doctrine before is to disswade the galatian christians from affecting to be under the law , v. . as the false teachers endeavoured to perswade them . and to that end he teacheth them the allegory of hagar and sarah , and their children ; hagar and sarah represent two covenants , the one of the law , the other of righteousness by faith ; and the children represent the one the justiciaries that seek righteousness by the works of the law , and are tenacious of that covenant , the other bellevers in christ , who seek righteousness by faith in him , and stick to the new covenant of grace , in which is promised the just shall live by faith. the former covenant is a covenant of bondage , and the children thereof are in bondage with their mother , that is , they are not to inherit the promise of righteousness ; but the later covenant is free , and her children are free-born heirs of righteousness . and though the former covenant had many children while the jewish church stood , the greatest part resting in the law , and expecting their righteousness in observing it , yet the new covenant that was as barren , having none or very few that were born of it , there being but few that looked for redemption by the messiah or the consolation of israel , but followed the pharises doctrine , of conceiving themselves righteous by keeping the law , now , being made known to all nations by preaching the gospel , hath many more children than the old , innumerable believers of the gentiles as well as the jews , embraci●g the doctrine of the gospel concerning righteousness by faith : and of this sort are we , sayth the apostle , v. . but it happens to us as of old , as ishmael persecuted isaac , so now the carnal jews who are justiciaties persecute us who are believers . and then follow deductions , one that it is gods sentence to reject justiciaries , as not heirs of righteousness , v. . another , the ass●rting the estate of believers to be a state of freedom , v. . and hereupon exhorts cap. . . that they should st●nd fast in their liberty wherein christ hath made them free , and not be again intangled with the yoke of bondage , to wit , the law and legal covenant . and that the constant exposition of interpreters is for the sense according to the supplement made by me , and not according to mr. bls. conceit , may appear by alleging some of their words , hieronym . comment . in epist. ad galat. lib. . cap. . thus paraphraseth the words , sicut ergo tum major frater ishmael lactentem adhuc & parvulum persequebatur isaac , sibi circumcisionis praerogativam , sibi primogenita vendi●ans : ita & nunc secundum carnem israel , adversus minorem fratrem de gentibus populum christianum , sustollitur , infl●tur , erig●tur . consideremus insaniam judaeorum : qui & dominum interfecere , & prophetas & apostolos persecu●i sunt : & adversantur voluntat● dei : & videbimus multo majores persecutiones , quas nos , etiam historiae docent , à judaeis in christianos quàm à gen●●bus concitatas . chrysost. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gorran . [ it ▪ a & nunc . ] illi scilicet qui secundum carnem vivunt ut judaei & haeretici per sequuntur eos qui secundum spiritum scilicet christianos & omnes bonos . perkins com . upon galat. . . these words are an answer to an objection , on this manner . we are hated of the jews , and therefore we are not the children of promise . the answer is two fold , one in this verse thus , no marvel , this is the old fashion ; it was thus in abrahams family . for ishmael ( born after the ●lesh ) persecuted isaac ( born after the spirit : ) and so it is at this day . pareus comment . in gen. . : illusio ismaelis adversus fra●rem significat , filios carnis persecutionem intent●re filiis promission●● . p●scator schol . in locum . ita & nunc carnalis israel spiritua em persequitur . grot. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] sic & nunc judaei illis ritibus addicti quos vultis imitari , maximo odio prosequuntur christianos . diodati . annot. ad gal. . . but as ] this singular privilege hath a condition joyned unto it like unto that which happened unto isaac who was scorned by ishmael , gen. . . that is to say , that all christians are likewise persecuted by the jews . di●son . cum enim in abrahami famil●a is qui naturae vi ordinariâ tantum genitus est , persequutus est eum , qui divinitus & spirituali ratione est genitus ; quid mirum , si idem nunc usu veniat nobis ? trapp . com. on the place . even so it is now ] and so also it is now , may we say at this day . for what do papists persecute us for else , but because we reject their justification by works ? which being determined i infer that mr. bls. arguing includes many absurdities . . that when it is sayd , even so it is now , and the term [ they that are born after the flesh ] is to be supplied , he by [ being born after the flesh ] means birth by natural genoration of infants born of christian parents , in which are many gross absurdities . . that he understands this sayd of infants , which must then be sayd to persecute . . that he takes [ being born after the flesh ] in the later part to note natural birth : but that is clean besides the apostles meaning , who considers persons born after the flesh , not as born by humane members and seed , but as born by a fleshly covenant . otherwise it should import no allegory contrary to the apostles speech , v. . which tels us these things are an allegory , that is , do speak or declare some other thing than the narration according to the grammar-sense imports , and that is , to be born according to the fleshly covenant , that is , to imbrace the doctrine of that covenant . . that [ to be born after the flesh ] should import birth of abraham as a believer , and so natural generation of each childe of a believer in that respect , but then [ to be born after the flesh ] would be common to isaac with ishmael , to him that is born after the spirit , of the free woman , by promise , with him that is born after the flesh of the bond woman ; for to be born of abraham or a believer agrees also to isaac , to him that is born after the spirit , of the free woman , by promise ; whereas to be born after the flesh is taken in a sense from which isaac and we , that is , paul and other christian believers are excluded . for he infers v. . therefore brethren , we are not the children of the bond woman , which is all one with this , we are no● born after the flesh , as it is expressed , v. . whence it is apparent that [ being born after the flesh ] doth onely import the birth of the bond woman , generation by abraham being not considered in this thing . . mr. bl. doth quite pervert the apostles intent in taking to be born after the flesh to import an honour , and that it implies two things : . a birth of nature , a childe by lineal descent of such a father . . outward prerogatives that accompany such a birth , as his words are vindic. foed . cap. . whereas the apostle mentions birth after the flesh as a debasement , takes it in the worser part , not as importing a descent from the father , but from the mother , and that mother a bond woman , and therefore the children servants or bond slaves by reason of their being born after the flesh . i will use the words of cameron in his conference with tilenus , die dominica april . . sect . . contrà verò ismael etsi patre libero attamen matre servanatus est , porro partus ventrem sequitur , nascendi ergo conditione servus fuit : tales scilicet sunt , qui deo cultum exhibent servilem fusticiarii : where he explains the apostles words , gal. . against this mr. bl. excepts vindic. foed . cap. . . that i make the apostles parallel to look at the allegory , and not at the history ▪ when the text makes it plain that the apostle looks at the history , then and now are both adverbs of time , and relate to ishmaels jears in person , not to the malignity of men of the covenant of works against those of the covenant of grace : here he is wholly silent , and answers in his apology nothing at all . answ. i conceived in answering the second i had answered this exception . but i now answer particularly . i conceived he meant by the history those words v. . . and the forepart of the . v. as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit . and by the parallel he meant the later part of the . v. and the allegory to be that which answers to ishmael , to wit , to seek righteousness by the law , and to isaac , to wit , to seek righteousness by faith : which may be seen in bezas and piscators diagrams , where beza and piscator make ishmael 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to answer , or to be in the same rank as the type with the justitiaries that seek righteousness by the law , which answers ●o hagar , whose gneration is after the flesh , that is , justification is by works , and are cast out of the family of god , excluded from the inheritance of life as ishmael from abrahams , and isaac to answer to believers by virtue of the covenant of the gospel answering to sara , whose birth is after the spirit , that is , whose justification is by faith , and so are in abrahams house and heirs of eternal life . now it is true i do make the history to be in the forepart of the v. and the mystery or allegory in the later : not but that i acknowledg there is a history in both parts of the verse , as the adverbs then and now shew . but it is not the same history in the later part of the verse which is in the former . for then there should be nothing allegorized , yea there would be a meer tautology , if as mr. b● . speaks , then and now both adverbs of time relate to ishma●s jeers in person , then the speech of the apostle is inept or rather false . for then it should be [ as ishmael in person then jeered isaac , so now ishmael in person jeers isaac ] which is i say still a gross absurdity . but the later part contains another history of what was done in the apostles time , where in the terms [ born after the flesh and after the spirit ] are allgorized , and applied to other sorts of persons , and the term [ now ] relates the malignity of men of the covenant of works against those of the covenant of grace , as hath been fully proved before against mr. blake . . ' ●m . bl. excepted , that i shut out the literal sense both from the history and parallel , and bring in an allegorical sense in both , when the contrary is evident in the text , for though ishmael be a type of one under the covenant of works , yet that ishmael himself was a justiciary , or that he sought righteousness that way , and persecuted isaac under any such notion , as a man for gospel-righteousness , scripture hath no word , or so much as any colour . ' ● answ. this exception is the same in effect with the former , and in answering this the former was answered in my postscript , sect . . and now this is answered by answering the former , yet i finde a necessity to add something by reason of mr. bls. unreasonable importunity . i take notice that ishmael is confessed to be a type of one under the covenant of works , and whether he were himself a justiciary is not material , though sure there is some colour for it . but this seems to be mr. bls. minde that in the parallel , gal. . . there 's no allegorical sense , because ishmael himself was not a justitiary : which reason rests on this conceit , that neither in the forepart nor the later part of v. . by [ he that was born after the flesh ] is meant any other than ishmael himself or in person , which how it makes the apostles speech tautological or false is shewed before . mr. bl. goes on , to this he answers , he shuts not out the literal sense from the history but from the parallel , and that is so far from being contrary to the text , that it is expresly sayd , these things are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an allegory . i desire the reader to take notice , what kinde of interpretation mr. t. will put on this text , and who will have him pass for an eminent scripture interpreter ? ( when mr. b. is a man in his high censure defective in it ) then and now are both adverbs of time , and we must have a literal then and a mystical now , one of them to answer the history and the other the allegory ; if my interpretation be thus gross , i desire the reader to disclaim it ; either the h●story must be wholly looked at in the parallel , or else the allegory , there is that harmony between the apostles then and now that will not admit such divorce and separation . answ. what i sayd of mr. bs. interpretations of scripture in my praecursor , sect . . appears by this writing to be right , and will appear more hereafter . did he measure himself su● modulo ac ped● , he would be more cautelous than he is in expounding scripture , and if he did take warning by my words the church of god would have cause to thank me for them , however he or mr. bl. take them . i am sorry that the reader and my self are troubled about such st●rtings rather than arguings , which mr. bl. here and elsewhere useth , which sure do ill become him , who should at the years he is now of rather weigh things than lightly pass ever them with satyrical quips instead of arguments . he may take notice that i make no mystical now , gal. . . but in both parts the adverbs of time are literal , and yet the terms [ he that is born after the flesh , and he that is born after the spirit ] are without any absu●dity meant allegorically , as i have both sayd and demonstrated . . sayth mr. bl. i have told him , that he makes two contradistinct species of birth , that both cannot be incident to one man , no more than a man be a brute beast , or a brute beast a bird ; when it is plain that here is not a distribution of a genus into several species , but a distribution of a subject according to its several adjuncts , of which i give several instances . answ. i sayd in my postscript , that i not orely make birth after the flesh and after the spirit contradistinct but also contrary . contradistinct species may be incident to the same person , the same man may b● lo●g and broad , just and temperate , but not contrary , as white and black , just and unjust ; [ birth ] distributed into birth after the flesh and after the spirit must needs be a genus , or an equivocal term , it cannot be any subject either quod or quo , it being neither substance , quantity nor quality , but either action or passion , action as from the mother , passion as in the person born . now actions though they are capable of various modifications , yet i do not think any logicians call them subjects , or their several modifications adjuncts : but the substance whose action or passion it is , is the subject both of the action and passion , and their degrees and modifications , and these are adjuncts of that substance . mr. bl. adds of me , he is pleased to deny that it is a distribution of the subject according to its adjuncts , and gives in the thing in dispute for a reason . then the same person ( he says ) would be born after the spirit and after the flesh . answ. i give in this reason i confess : but i did not think this was in dispute , but out of all dispute ▪ the apostle making them two sons born of two mothers , v. . two several ways , v. . born to two several estates , v. , , . the one persecuting the other , and all these diversities are in the persons which are types , and in their antitypes ; and the apostle thence inferreth , that the one are not the other , v. . whence it follows , that birth after the flesh and spirit are not adjuncts of the same subject , but contrary attributes of several subjects . mr. bl. proceeds ▪ presently he confesseth that isaac was born after the flesh in the two senses i mention . and i am sure mr. t. will not deny that isaac was born after the spirit , and then either truth is very absurd , or else mr. t. hath quit me from absurdity ; but then he says , it is untrue in the apostles sense , for then he should be the childe of the bond-mayd , not by promise , a persecutor to be cast out , not to inherit . to which i answer , that my sense is the apostles sense , and mr. t. his sense far from it : for though the apostle doth indeed allegorize the text , as arias montanus renders it , quae sunt allegorizata , yet the apostle in the parallel looks at the letter of the history , as i have shewen , not at the allegory , which mr. t. had not a face to oppose , either he must deny now and then to be adverbs of time , or else he must allow of my interpretation , ishmael did never as a justitiary prosecute isaac under the notion of a follower of evangelical righteousness . answ. i do confess isaac was born after the spirit , and that he was born after the flesh in the two senses of mr. bl. for one born of natural parents abraham was his natural father , and in the sense more common in scripture for the outward prerogatives that accompany such a birth ( though i do not find the phrase , born after the flesh in this later sense in scripture , not phil. . . rom. . . . cor. . . where the term [ flesh ] is used and yet i think onely in the first place importing prerogatives , no where the phrase born after the flesh in that sense ) yet not in the apostles sense , in which to be born after the flesh notes birth without consideration of the father as by a mother that was a bond-woman , and so no prerogative is intimated in it but a debasement or deminution and so isaac was not born after the flesh , that is not of a bond-woman , by an usual way of generation , but of the free-woman by divine virtue according to a promise to her when past childe-bearing in the course of nature . and this to be the apostles sense is proved before , and mr. bls. sense proved very absurd , and his reasons for it answered . yet he adds of me . after some concessions in full contradiction to himself , i deny not ( saith he ) but legal justitiaries may be in the visible church as ishmael in abrahams house , though the apostle make the parallel onely in the casting out , that they might not inherit , apolog. pag. . ) he saith , if mr. bl. would gather anything hence for himself , he must prove that the apostle makes some to be of the visible church by virtue of being born after the flesh as their prerogative , which is as wide from the apostles meaning , as the east is from the west , as far as the east is from the sun-rising , he should have said , that is the thing that i have proved , and do maintain , i laid down by way of syllogism and have an apology instead of an answer . mr. t. hath a notable faculty in begging of the question in agitation . the apostles full scope ( i confess ) is another thing ; but i still affirm that he occasionally expresses that from whence this is evidently deduced , namely a distinction of births literal not allegorical , which mr. t. never will be able with any reason to deny , till it can be proved that then and now look at the allegory , not at the history ; i can prove from luke . . that the israelitish women are daughters of abraham , though it is plain that another thing there was christs main intention . answ. mr. bl. continues to write at random . there 's no shew of contradiction much less a full contradiction in my words to my self . this may be true , justitiaries may be in the visible church , and this also , to be born after the flesh or to be a justitiary doth not import a prerogative giving title to be of the visible church , my speech was right , and needs not to be mended by any of mr. bls. fl●●ts . he hath a full answer to his syllogism before , and so he had before in the apology , the strength of his arguing being thus expressed here , the consequence is plain , birth of the flesh in the church gave a church interest , which is denied to be proved from galat. . . and was denied before . and though being an answerer i need not prove , and therefore begging the question is charged on me frivolously by mr. bl. for he only begs the question who takes for granted that which he should prove ( which is mr. bls. fault who useth to d●ctate when he should prove ) yet did i prove that the apostles scope is not onely another thing than the asserting of a prerogative of visible church-membership by being born after the flesh , that is , being the childe of a believer by natural generation , but that he deduceth their casting out of the church from it , and that the birth after the flesh is taken in the worser part as that which bringeth bondage not church estate or christian liberty , nor doth birth after the flesh respect the descent from a believer but the bond-woman , and that this birth is in the antitype allego●ical , and yet the adverbs then and now are adverbs of time , and a history is related in both parts of the . v. of gal. . generally interpreters take the words , even so it is now , as meant of the jews , which cannot be true literally : for they were not born after the flesh , that is , of bond-women , but of free-women , which were true israelites , or daughters of abraham , as mr. b. here confesseth . mr. bl. proceeds . secondly , he sayth that i say , such are in the bosom of the church , when the apostle sayth , they persecute the church , and are cast out : i desire the reader to consider , if this had any truth in it ; whether it hold with greater strength for me or him ? they are cast out , and therefore they were in , is my argument : they are cast out , and therefore were never in , sayth mr. t. . the apostle sayth no such thing , that they are cast out ; ishmael was in the family when he persecuted , though afterwards he was cast out of the family ; these are in the church , though in case they continue persecution , they shall in fine be cast out ; now in present they have a being in it . answ. it is true that this was my second exception against his gross perverting of the apostles words , [ even so it is now ] as if the meaning were , that by virtue of being born after the flesh , some infants , to wit , those that are born of a believing parent are in the bosom of the church , when the apostle sayth , . they persecute , which cannot be meant of infants . . in that they are born after the flesh they persecute the church , therefore he ascribes no privilege to them , as accruing to them , by the birth after the flesh , but a cursed practice . . that they persecute the church , therefore while born after the flesh they were not in the bosom of the church , that is the church christian visible . . that they are cast out , therefore not in the church . to the two first of these nothing is answered , the consequence of the third is denied , he supposeth they did persecute the church , and yet remained in ; which is most palpably false : for this being apparently meant of the unbelieving jews that sought righteousness by the law , and acknowledged so by interpreters , it is notoriously false , that they were in the bosom of the christian church , while they did persecute the church ; yea , saul himself was not after his conversion taken in presently to communion with the disciples at jerusalem , till they knew that he ceased to be a persecutor , acts . . so that the words [ even so it is now ] expounded as mr. bls. words intimate [ even so now by virtue of being born after the flesh , that is , by natural generation born of a believing parent , there are some even infants that are in the bosom of the christian visible church , as members of it , and remaining in it , do persecute the church ] are so false , and the exposition so unsavoury , that it is a wonder to me , that neither mr. bl. nor the prefacers to his book take care to have it left out . that which mr. bl. answers to the fourth thing in this exception is of like stamp . . he sayth , it follows not they were cast out , therefore never in . but my argument is this , they were by reason of their being born after the flesh cast out , therefore not for this reason in the bosom of the church . . that it follows , they are cast out , therefore they were in : which consequence i deny , being understood of the church christian visible , and the particular persons who are sayd to be cast out : for they are sayd to be cast out not from what they had , but from what they might have had or others had ; as matth. . . it is sayd , the children of the kingdom shall be east out ( of the kingdom of heaven , v. . in which others were , and they not ) into outer darkness . he sayth also , the apostle sayth no such thing that they are cast out , but mentions a command of casting them out . to which i replied , as if gods dictum were not factum : if they were not cast out , why doth the apostle allege that text ? my meaning was , gods speech of the casting out of hagar and ishmael was not a bare command , but such as included a sentence and decree of god , which he took course to execute , and that the apostle allegeth the text not to prove a duty , but to shew an event , or fact of god. for as the apostle allegeth it , the casting out is of the legal covenant , and the children of it those that desired to be under the law , and their casting out is their rejecting from the inheritance of righteousness and being gods people : now this could not be any mans duty but gods act determining and accordingly accomplishing this sentence , that righteousness shall not be by the law , nor justitiaries his people , and therefore it is most absurd in mr. bl. to determine , that some by virtue of being born after the flesh have a right to be in the bosom of the church christian , when the apostle determines they are for this reason rejected or cast out . i had , thirdly , excepted against mr. bl. as making those that are born after the flesh , gal. . . abrahams seed , wherein he joyns with arminius in calling them abrahams seed who sought justice in the law. mr. bl. vindic. foed cap. . sayth , i joyn with arminius , and that he follows mr. bayne . for sayth he , i interpret it of a natural seed that inherit outward privileges , and never reach the birth of the spirit , so mr. baines interprets it , the children of the flesh here , are those onely who in course of nature came from abraham , baines on ephes. . pag. . quarto . answ. it is true mr. bayne hath those words , but yet he excepteth pag. . against arminius as i do for calling legal justitiaries ( who are meant by [ they that are born after the flesh , gal. . . ] ) abrahams seed . for there he thus speaks . beside that , though the sons of the flesh may signifie such , who carnally , not spiritually conceive of the law , yet the seed of abraham without any adjoyned is never so taken . it is true that mr. baines so interprets the term [ children of the flesh , rom. . . ] as mr. bl. hath cited him , which place he meant by [ here ] but not the te●m [ he that is born after the flesh , gal. . . ] yea pag. . he saith , for though children of the flesh in some other scripture ( meaning gal. . . ) doth note out justitiaries , seeking salvation in the law , yet here ( rom. . . ) the literal meaning is to be taken ; a childe of the flesh being such a one who descendeth from abraham according to the flesh . so that this is the thing that i except against mr. bl. for that whereas by the consent of all , that i know , interpreters besides himself [ they that are born after the flesh , gal. . . in the apodosis there even so it is now ] do note legal justitiaries who are there called the children of the bond-woman , not called abrahams seed ( for those he had determined before to be those of the faith , gal. . . christs v. . ) nor to inherit , but cast out , he on the contrary , makes them abrahams seed as arminius doth in his analysis of rom. . and ascribes to them the inheriting of outward privileges as to be members of the visible church in that they are born after the flesh . whereas the term [ born after the flesh ] is taken in the worser part precisely from the birth from the bond-woman abstractively from generation by abraham and importing no privilege , but a privation of privilege . as for mr. bayn , though he interpret [ children of the flesh , rom. . . ] of those onely who in course of nature came from abraham , and proves there that it notes not legal justitiaries , because it is applyed to esau who is considered as having done neither good nor evil . yet mr. bl. wrongs him in two things . . in that he saith , mr. baine interprets it of a natural seed inheriting outward privileges , whereas though mr. baine doth interpret [ children of the flesh , rom. . . ] of a natural seed , yet not as inheriting thereby outward privileges . . that he makes his exposition of [ children of the flesh , rom. . ] to be his exposition of [ those that are born after the flesh , gal. . . ] whereas he expresly saith , though children of the flesh in some other scripture ( which can be no other than gal. . . doth note out justitiaries , seeking salvation in the law. i confess cameron in his conference with tilenus in the place before cited makes ishmael not onely a type of justitiaries , gal. . , . but also rom. . , . and isaac a type of believers in both places , and esau and jacob types not of justitiaries and believers , but of uncalled and called , non-elect and elect , and so the resemblance to be different of the two former brethre● from the later ; which to me seems not right : for me thinks the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have this sense , that the thing he had sayd before did not onely appear in ishmael and isaac , but also more fully in esau and jacob , which me thinks imports , that the apostle meant to prove the same thing by esau and jacob , which he did by ishmael and isaac , and me thinks the long parenthesis he imagines from v. , to . agrees not with that expression v. . not onely so but also , they being connexive particles , and so not agreeable to a parenthesis . but cameron and all others i know , understand by [ those that are born after the flesh , gal. , . ] legal justitiaries . mr. john cotton grounds of baptism , &c. pag. . by such as are born after the flesh ( gal. . . ) the apostle doth not mean such as are born by ordinary course of nature : but such as are born and bred of the carnal seed of the covenant of the law ; which as it bego● by ishmael carnal confidence of his own strength , ( or else he would never have slighted and mocked the promised seed ) so it begat in cain and saul and judas an utter despair of grace and salvation . my fourth exception was , whereas the covenant of grace is made the reason of baptizing infants ; to be born of hagar , that is , to be in the covenant of works , should give a childe interest into the church of christ. to this all that mr. bl. replies is this , if mr. tombs his gloss ( borrowed from arminius ) must stand for the sense of the place , that to be born of the flesh , is to be under the covenant of works , then it will hardly be avoided ; but in case mr. baines interpretation may stand of a birth in nature , according to the flesh , then the argument is valid . answ. that mr. baines doth interpret no otherwise the term [ born after the flesh , gal. . . ] than i do , is shewed above : yet if it were true , that he did as mr. bl. mis-allegeth him interpret [ born after the flesh , gal. . . ] of those onely who in course of nature came from abraham , yet it is false that either there or rom. . . he conceived this term [ children of the flesh ] to import a natural seed by virtue of it inherititing outward privileges , and therefore the argument of mr. bl. is not valid , though mr. baines were granted to be rightly alleged by him . and for that he sayth , i borrow my gloss from arminius : i answer , i have shewed that i have deduced it from the apostles own words , and have the concurrent judgment of many divines of best note , to whom it is no disparagement , that in this arminius joyns . sect . xxiii . mr. brinsley and dr. homes their conjecture from hebr. . . to prove infant-baptism is refelled . there is another text , to wit , hebr. . . from which dr. homes animad . on my exercit. pag. . and after cap. . would prove infant-baptism , and with him mr. john brinsley doctrine and practice of poedob . pag. . &c. which if their arguing were good , would not onely prove the practice of infant-baptism , but also that it is a principle of christianity , and part of the foundation . the arguing is to this effect , if the doctrine of laying on of hands put after the doctrine of baptisms cannot be expounded of any other than the laying on of hands for confirming the baptized in infancy than the doctrine of laying on of hands put after the doctrine of baptisms presupposeth infant-baptism . but the antecedent is true , ergo , the consequent . the antecedent is proved by parts , . it cannot be understood of laying on of hands for healing or miraculous gifts of the spirit . for then the knowledg of the extraordinary gifts of the spirit should be put among the principles of christian knowledg , which is absurd . to which i answered in my exercit. pag. . that it is no absurdity to put that among the principles of christian knowledg , those gifts being though by extraordinary power , yet frequent in those days , and necessary to be known to confirm young christians , that jesus is the christ , because the spirit thus given was the great witness concerning christ , that he was the son of god , and shewed that he was gone up to the father , else the spirit had not descended , it was it by which the world was rebuked , and the saints established . to this sayth dr. homes , that i by and by as good as confess it a eogent reason , because i go about to prove that imposition of hands here mentioned is for ordination , because it was still in use , and to continue to be used . answ. the doctor misallegeth my words : for i do not say positively as he cites them , but comparatively thus ; for it is more likely that imposition of hands for ordination , which was still in use , and to continue to be used , should be there meant , than laying on of hands for confirmation after baptism of infants , which hath no rule nor example in scripture . . saith dr. homes , those gifts usual onely in that little time of the apostles were not to be joyned with , and put among the first principles of christian religion to be taught young ones to fit them for baptism , or to give an account of their faith after baptism . answ. those principles heb. . , . are not sayd to be taught to little ones in age , but in knowledg of christian religion , nor are they sayd to be taught to fit them for baptism , or to give account of their faith after baptism : they may be principles and a foundation , though they were taught them after baptism , and to establish themselves rather than to give account to others . now for what reason the knowledg of these might be a part of the beginnings of the doctrine of christ to young christians is given above . and there is in the text that which may induce us to conceive the giving the spirit by laying on of hands meant , because v. . they that were enlightned , which many even of the ancients understood of baptism , commonly called by the greeks [ inlightning ] are sayd , to have tasted of the heavenly gift and to be partakers of the holy ghost , which seems to be meant in respect of these gifts , and paul acts . . propounded this as a catechism question to certain disciples at ephesus , have ye received the holy ghost since ye believed ? but i rested not on it , because the other of laying on of hands for ordination seemed to me more likely then . . sayth mr. brinsley , it s not likely to be meant of laying on of hands for ordination , . because that 's not fit to be taught younglings , children , novices , as milk , heb. . . if this be milk , viz. the doctrine of church-discipline , church-officers , church-goverment , &c. what shall we call o● count strong meat ? to this was answered , that however all the doctrine about church-discipline might be unfit to be taught novices , yet laying on hands for ordination being an outward ri●e of continued use , it might be needfull to be taught younglings in christian profession . to this dr. homes replies , that no ingenuous man we●ghing and pondering things will think that little children should be taught , as one of the first elements of christian faith the imposition of hands to ordain ministers . to which i say , many even of later writers , whom me thinks the doctor should not deny to be ingenuous men do refer the laying on of hands , heb. . . to ordination , dicson on heb. . . ames bell. ener . tom . . lib. . cap. . th . . cartwright answ. to rh. annot. in locum . thomas hooker survey part . . cap. . pag. . noyes the temple measured , pag. . hudson essence and unity of the church , pag. . and vindic. pag. . dr. hammond of the keys cap. . sect . . chamier tom . . panstr . cath. lib. , cap. . sect . . recites the opinions of papists , as differing , some referring to confirmation , some to ordination , some to giving the holy ghost . the new annot. diodati , speak as uncertain , to which to refer it , grotius refers it to all rites besides baptism ▪ and the lords supper , in confirmation , ordination , curing the sick , reconciling penitents , blessing the married : and therefore whether little children were taught the doctrine thereof or no , many ingenuous men conceive it meant , heb. . . . though it might be conceived unfit for little children in age to be taught , yet it may nevertheless be fit to be taught younglings in christianity meant , heb. . . it seems to me to be as fit to be taught little children as the doctrine of confirmation , and may be as easily learned by them as the points about the resurrection of the dead , and eternal judgment . . sayth mr. brinsley , the very putting these two together [ baptisms and laying on of hands ] seems in calvins judgment to import some relation that the one should have to the other , as in the other principles which are by pairs . to this i answered , that baptism and imposition of hands might be fitly coupled , being both ordinances for initiation , the one into the profession of christianity , the other into sacred function . to this dr. homes replies , that imposition of hands initi●te● but few , and that long after they are church members , and that marriage might better be coupled with baptism or imposition of hands and the lords supper . answ. if all this were granted , yet the answer stands good , that the joyning proves not mr. brinsleys sense necessary , which is enough for my purpose to shew the insufficiency of his argument . but dr. homes thinks to blow away all by avouching his and mr. brinsleys interpretation , which he cals a naked and honest explication of the text. and that is , that the doctrine of baptisms is the doctrine which the catechized of the heathens recited afore their baptism , and the doctrine of laying on of hands was the doctrine which infants of believers before baptized in their infancy , after they were past childhood , rehearsed before the church , upon which they were received into the church by imposition of hands . answ : he may well call it a naked interpretation , because it is brought into the world without proof , there being nothing in the text for it , and all the shew of proof is onely the opinion of some late writers mistaken about the practise of antiquity . yea me thinks if the doctor with his brethren of the congregational way , as it is called , did believe this interpretation to be genuine , they should admit their infant-sprinkled members by laying on of hands , which yet i hear not that they do . but against this interpretation are these reasons . . in it is supposed that the doctrine of baptisms , and laying on of hands is not the doctrine concerning those rites , but the doctrine recited when those rites were used . but the doctrine then recited being the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment , and the profession of repentance from dead works and faith towards god , if the doctrine of baptisms and the laying on of hands be the doctrine recited by the baptized , and confirmed at the use of those rites , it will be the same with the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment , repentance from dead works and faith towards god , and so those several principles will be confounded . . the doctrine of baptisms was that which in those to whom the apostles wrote was layd before , which is intimated in the words v. . not laying again . but they were hebrews , therefore not , as the doctor , heathens that recited it at baptism . . there 's no distinction in the text as if some recited the doctrine at baptism , and others who had been baptized in infancy recited it at laying on of hands , but the same persons had the doctrine of both layd in them . . there 's not a word of reciting the doctrine at the several rites by the taught , but the laying of the foundation of the doctrine of those rites by the teachers . . the doctrine of baptisms whether by them be meant those of john and christ , or other , and of laying on of hands is more likely and more generally conceived to be concerning the use of baptism and laying on of hands . but the doctrine of the use of these was not recited by either sort of catechized persons , though both sorts were taught both doctrines . . the placing the words [ the doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands ] in the middle between faith and resurrection of the dead , is against the doctors sense , sith the doctrine of baptisms , being joyned by apposition to faith and repentance , the sense must be , that repentance and faith were the doctrine recited at baptism , not the resurection of the dead , which comes after , if the doctors sense were right . . this order leads us to conceive , that the writer of that epistle did orderly place the elements of christianity in which christians were instructed , to wit , repentance and faith before baptism , then the baptism of water , and the laying on of hands for the obtaining the spirit by prayer after baptism , and then the declaration of what they were to expect , the resurrection of the dead , and eternal judgement , wherein sentence should pass on them concerning their everlasting state . . the terms [ of repentance , of faith , of the doctrine , of the resurrection , of judgement ] are all governed of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the foundation ] as if they were possessed of it ( as the grammarians speak ) the word [ doctrine ] is not joyned by apposition to [ faith ] as if the sense were [ which is the doctrine of baptisms ] which must be the sense if the doctors interpretation be right . . those interpreters which are brought as giving us that sense which dr. homes and mr. brinsley all●ge are but late writers , and such as speak onely by ghess without proving the antiquity of the use they mention out of ancient writers , or alleging any ancient writer expounding the text heb. . . ●s referring to that use , dr. homes recites p. , . the words of pareus , calvin , bullinger , marlorat , hofman , theophylact , mr. cotton , of all which there is none afore the . century but theophylact placed by dr. usher at the year . and his words with the words of hofman , and marlorat do not at all speak of the use of laying hands on children of believers baptized in infancy , and bullingers words apply the laying on of hands to the ordination of pastors . so heedlesly did dr. homes write his anima●versions that his own authors he allegeth are not for him , or else against him . and for mr. cotton he sayth onely , there be that conceive and that not improbable there was such an use , and that some judicious divines have conceived that use to be the reason of reckoning the laying on of hands among the principles , heb. . . and he brings it to prove that then elders were not without laying on of hands , for all church-members had hands layd on them , and so might more freely lay hands on others : which speech if true , and the inference be good , then women who were church-members had hands layd on them , and might more freely lay hands on others . but the new england elders , of whom i think mr. cotton was one , if not the very penner of those answers , in the answer to the . question pag. . say , if it were not so , then one of these would follow , either that the officers must minister without any ordination at all , which is against tim. . . heb. . . so that there it is referred to the same laying on of hands which is mentioned tim. . . which is indeed a very common exposition of interpreters . it is true calvin and pareus refer it to the use mr. brinsley mentions : yet chamier tom . . panstr . cath. lib. . cap. . sect . . allegeth with salmeron , justinian , calvin , beza , aretius , piscator , concerning the initial laying on of hands upon the catechized to prepare them to receive baptism , ( for which use dr. hammond in his letter of resolut . pag. . brings some places of the ancients ) and calvin in his institutions l. . cap. . sect . . disallows hieroms judgment , conceiving that the laying on of hands for confirmation was an apostolical ordinance . beza saith , that the doctrine heb. . , . was delivered when they met either to baptize , or lay on hands on infants or adult persons ; so that he speaks as one not fully resolved . and indeed interpreters , as is shewed above , are not agreed whether to refer it to laying on hands on the baptized or the ordained , yet very few of the protestants refer it to the laying on of hands for confirmation of them that were baptized in infancy , and the . article of the church of england makes confirmation one of those things which have grown of the corrupt following of the apostles . i sayd in my exercit. sect . . that if hierom. tom . ▪ in his dialogue against the luciferians do assert that use of imposition of hands from scripture , yet he allegeth not heb. . . for it , but the examples of giving the holy ghost by laying on of hands in the acts of the apostles . to this dr. homes replies , . that however the antiquity holds good , that imposition of hands was used to be after applied to them that have been baptized . to which i say , this being granted , yet as i shew there and here the use of baptizing infants is not proved thereby , nor doth hierom confirm mr. brinsleys exposition . . sayth dr. homes , in that place he quotes other places than the acts of the apostles , and speaks to our purpose thus , and then reciting some words of hierom , adds , so hieronymus . wherefore he supposeth imposition of hands may be on them that had the spirit in baptism before : which is not denied by me , nor do i see what that is to dr. homes his purpose to prove that the laying on of hands heb. . . is meant of believers infants before baptized , and then upon their own profession received into the church by imposition of hands . yet chamier . tom . . panstr . cath. lib. . cap. . sect . . allegeth hierom , as referring the imposition of hands to the time of baptism , not some years after . i sayd in my exercit. pag. . but if it were supposed , that this imposition of hands meant heb. . . were on the baptized ; yet this proves not the baptism of infants in the apostles days , unless it could be proved , that it was used after the baptism of infants onely for a confirmation either of the baptism or the baptized . on the contrary , it is apparent out of tertullian de corona militis , cap. . that in the primitive times the baptized did make his confession sub man●● antisti●is , the minister laying hands on him . to this dr. homes says , . that the learned men before quoted gave us the sum of antiquity . but how little to the purpose their words are , or how destitute of proof is shewed above . . he cites in the margin tertul. de bapt . cyprian . ep. . & . august . tract . . on johns epist. but none of the passages he cites prove the use of laying on hands after the baptism of infants , which is many years after baptism , but of laying hands presently after baptism . . he excepts against my allegation out of tertullian , that he there disputes for receiving unwritten traditions , that he alludes to no scripture authority , or to any approved antiquity : which doth no whit infringe my allegation : for notwithstanding these things his testimony is valid for the practice of what was done at baptism in his time , of which no doubt he was often a spectator . . saith he , [ sub manu ] is a phrase that hath so many senses as it is no ways certain , that here [ sub mann ] [ under the hand ] signifies imposition of hands . haply it may rather signifie the ministers lifting up of his hand in prayer : as pacianus hath it , we obtain , sayth he , in prayer pardon , and the holy spirit in baptism by the mouth and hand of the antistes . answ. the most likely sense is , the bishop laying on his hand , as being nearest the use of the phrase . dr. homes his sense is not likely , . because that which is sayd was done under the hand of the bishop , to wit , the protestation of the baptized , intimates that the bishop did not then lift up his hand in prayer , but hold his hand on the head of the protestant . nor is it likely he would then be praying when he should attend to his confession . . dr. homes shews not the phrase to be used elsewhere in his sense . for that which he cites out of pacianus is a different expression , by the hand , is not all one with under the hand . and yet chamier . panstr . cath. tom . . lib. . cap. . sect . . refers that obtaining by the hand to the imposition of hands at baptism . i added further . and to save labour in reciting testimonies chamier may be seen , who in his panstr . cath. tom . . lib. . cap. . sect . . &c. at large proves out of the ancients , that the imposition of hands , which was after made a distinct sacrament called cofirmation , was either a part or appendix of baptism , and cites many passages to shew , that it was when the baptized was to confess the fai●h , and renounce satan . against th●s dr. homes excepts , that chamier quotes but few , and those not of credit . but though the books some of them be not the authors works whose names they bear , yet many of them are of credit , yea all for what they are brought , and for the purpose for which they are alleged however dr. homes scorn or score with his nails those fathers ▪ if i may use his own words of my doing which is more justly to be charged on himself . dr. homes grants there imposition of hands presupposeth baptism , precedent , though in men of ripe years , but he should have added at the same solemnity joyned with it . the other testimonies are sufficient to shew the practice in the age in which the writers of them lived . but for dr. homes to say , that chamier doth not assert as from himself or from antiquity , that imposition of hands was to be conjoyned with baptism , when he doth at large undertake to prove , it was a part or appendix of baptism , is too much boldness in the doctor , much more to say , but rather tels us the contrary , partly from himself , partly from the authors he quotes , as that men were reconciled in pen●nce by imposition of hand● , sect. . which is nothing to the business . for though imposition of hands in reconciliation might be unconjoyned to baptism , yet what chamier says stands good , that imposition of hands for confirmation was a part or appendix of baptism . and what the doctor adds , sect. . that though confirmation belongs to the solemnities of baptism , yet after a while after baptism , is a plain confession of what i allege as averred by chamier , that that imposition of hands which after was made a distinct sacrament long after baptism , did formerly belong to the solemnity of baptism : which shews how little regard the doctor had to his own allegations . but it is not chamier alone who avers that anciently baptism and laying on of hands were together ; salmasius also a man of very accurate study in antiquity in his apparatus ad librum de primatu papae , pag. . speaks thus , discat igitur in aegypto & in graecia & in toto oriente confirmationem quae separata est à baptismo non fuisse notam . unus idemque presbyter in omnibus orientis ecclesiis simul & semel in baptismo conferendo etiam chrismationem cum manuum imposition● ac signaculo dominico dabat egressis è piscin● sive baptisterio : which he proves there ▪ out of severus alexand● . cyr●llus hierosolymitanus , and refers to more testimonies in his treatise de chrismate . and he says , p. ● . primis temporibus in occidente chrismatio & manuum impositio sequebantur post baptismum , posteaquam à baptismo separata est confirmatio aliquando in sola chrismatione constitit , pag. . he proves in tertisllians , cyprians , and others times , that haetres erant baptismi hoc est unius sacramenti partes , lotio , unctio , & impositio manuum . out of all which i conclude , that the laying on of hands for the confirmation of children of believers baptized in infancy , when they came to years , and professed the faith , was altogether unknown in the eastern churches anciently , and in the western onely in the declining times , and therefore notwithstanding calvin and pareus his conceits there was no such thing meant , heb. . . as baptism of infants , and their receiving into the church , many years after by laying on of hands , there being no such things known in the days of that writer , nor some hundred of years after , and therefore mr. brinsley and dr. homes argument from thence for infant-baptism is of no weight . i go on . sect . xxiv . dr. hammond his way of proving infant-baptism from the jews baptizing proselytes children is shewed to be vain . dr . henry hammond in his letter of resolution to six queries , in the fourth quere , sect. . speaks thus , but there is no need of laying much weight on this , or any the like more imperfect ways of probation , ( meaning the example of circumcision , gen. . of baptizing a whole houshold , acts . . christs reception of little children , matth. . . mark . ) the whole fabrick being sufficiently supported , and built on this basis ( the customary baptism among the jews ) and that discernible to be so , if we consider it first negatively , then positively . first negatively , that christian baptism , which is an institution of christs , lightly changed from the jewish custome of receiving of proselytes by him appointed in his life-time , and settled a little before his ascension hath nothing in the patern , whence it is copied out , nothing in the copy it self , as it is set down in the new testament , i. e. in the words of the institution , or in his or the apostles practice , which doth any way exclude the christians children from being part of that indefinite number , that ought to be baptized , or for whom baptism was instituted by christ. that there is nothing exclusive of them in the patern ( the jewish custom of baptism ) hath been sufficiently evidenced by the several branches of that already insisted on . answ. i like the doctors ingenuity in his waving the imperfect ways of proving infant baptism he mentions , and doubt not to shew his own to be no better than those he relinquisheth . the substance of his proof is this , as i conceive . the jews were wont when they admitted proselytes to baptize them and their children , and this is discernible to be the patern of christian baptism , and that christs institution was but a copy according to that patern , and therefore infants to be baptized , the apostles and the first churches practise shewing it to be so . concerning which i say , . it seems baptism was a custome of all nations as well as the jews . grot. annot. in matth. . . conceives that for as much as strangers washed , not circumcised , were obliged by those laws onely which god had given to all mankinde , it is easie to be understood that baptism was among old institutions arising , as i think , after the great deluge in memory of the world purged . whence that famous speech among the greeks , the sea washeth away all the evils of men . surely we read even in the epistle of of peter , that baptism is answerable to the deluge . and annot. in matth. . . yea with prosane nations it was of old used , that they who would be initiated were first washed all over their body , no doubt testifying thereby their purpose of innocency . . by the passages cited by the same author in matth . . justin martyr , clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , and augustin allegeth those nations custome for their practise ; nor do i know that ever dr. hammond or any other hath alleged one passage in scripture or any of the fathers , that might evince that the custome of baptizing or baptizing infants was derived from the jews initiating proselytes by baptisme , but some passages in the fathers shew rather that they took it as instead of circumcision . mr. selden de syned : ebrae . lib. . cap. . pag. , . mentions some who have conceived that the iewish baptism in initiating proselytes was in imitation of christs example , though he do not beleive it ; and that schickardus conceives they added a certain baptism to circumcision to difference them from samaritans , which i allege to shew that notwithstanding the doctors supposition , that the whole fabrick of baptism is discernible to be built on that basis the customary baptism among the jews , yet many will conceive it needs more proof than the bare recital of passages out of jewish writers . i for my part conceive that there was a custom of baptizing proselytes afore christs incarnation among the later jews , but that either it should begin from jacobs injunction to his houshold gen. ▪ . or gods command , exod. . . for the israelites to wash their clothes afore the giving the law ( though the jewish doctors allege these for it ) i do not conceive , those places speaking of washing jews by nature , not proselytes , whereas the jews baptized not jews by nature , as selden l. cap . de jure nat . ac gent. juxta discipl . ebrae . sayth , but by profession , nor do i conceive mr. seldens exposition in his book de syned , l. . cap. . that the sea was some vessel or receptacle of waters wherein they washed their bodies before the giving of the law exod. . . but the read sea . for as the drinking of the rock , is a relation of an accident of gods providence for them , signifying to them the lords supper , so their passing through the sea declares , not what they were injoyned to do , but what god did for them , that under the cloud they passed through the sea , to signify to them the same thing that baptism doth to us , our safe passage to life by christ , nor do i think dr. hammonds exposi●ion sect . . pag. . right , that they were baptized into moses in the cloud and in the sea v. i. e. were ( by these two great solemnities , the cloud that gave them light by night , and a guard by day , and the sea that was a wall to defend them , and a devouri●g deep to their enemies ) received and initiated into gods cove 〈…〉 der the conduct of moses , as since they are wont to be ini●●●●ed by baptism : for when it is said , our fathers were baptized , it is not mea●t were baptized as si●ce proselytes were baptized among the jews , but as christians were baptized , even as when he sayth v. . and they did all eat the same spiritual meat , it is meant they did all eat the same spiritual meat , with us christians , that is , they had christ signified to them by the manna they did eat , as we eat christ spiritually in the lords supper . there 's no more an allusion to a custom of the jews in the one then in the other , bu a narration of what happened to them by gods providence , which the apostle interprets as signs to them of the same thing that baptism , and the lords supper are to us christians . and therefore i conceive that the scripture doth not make the customary use of baptizing proselytes by the jews as a thing from god , or eyed by christ as his pattern , but that the custom of baptizing proselytes was a tradition of the elders as the baptisms mentioned mark . , . and many other things they held . nor do i think it true that the customary use of the jews in baptizing proselytes and their children , was the pattern of christs institution of baptism , and the apostles and first churches practise . for according to the custom of the jews set down out of maimony and other jewish rabbins by mr. selden l. . de jure natur . ac gent. &c. cap. lib. . de syned . ebr. cap. . john baptist , and christs apostles should have baptized no native jews , but onely gentiles that embraced the faith , for after the baptism exod. . . the jews did not baptize jews but onely proselytes . whereas not onely john baptist , but also the apostles both before , and after the ascension of christ did baptize jews as well as gentiles upon their profession of repentance and faith in christ , as being agreeable to christs institution matth. . . . christ would not have avouched the baptism of john to be from heaven , and not from men , if it had been in imitation of and conformity to the jewish custom . . it is likely some where or other some intimation would have been given of that custom as the directory for christians in the use of baptism . . the institution and practise would have been conformable to it . but the contrary appears . . in their baptizing no infants of the gentiles at their first conversion : whereas the iews baptized onely the gentiles infants at their first proselyting , not the infants of those who were baptized in infancy . selden l. . de iure nat . &c. cap. . sed vero , non aliter atque israelitae ipsi filii proselytorum circumcidendi tantum erant nec quemadmodum parentes sive illi sive filiae baptizandae . nunquam enim solennis proselyti baptismus ille iterandus erat , nec in ipso qui primo baptizatus ( tamet si apostata factus in ritus iudaicos rediret ) nec in posteris . so that if it be true that the jewish baptism of proselytes is the pattern of the christian , then no infant of christian race is now to be baptized , but such as were born when the first gentile ancestors were converted . yea the jews were so far from baptizing any infants of proselytes born after the●r first convesion and baptism , that they resolved , as may be seen in selden ubi supra , and dr. hammond himself allegeth sect . . if a woman great with childe become a proselyte , and be baptized her childe needs not baptism when t is born . so that whereas the doctor brings the iewish custom as a pattern for christian baptism so as that it may be reasonably thought to belong to all that among the jews were usually baptized , his own arguing will prove that no infant of christians now descerded from christian ancestors , or born of parents formerly infidels after the parents were baptized , should be baptized , because it is against the jewish custom of baptizing any childe of a g●ntile infidel born after the parents were become proselytes , and baptized ; but secondly besides this first and main thing wherein the doctors patern is incorgruous to christian baptism there are many more disparities , which shew that the iewish baptism of pr●selytes was not the patern of christan baptism , as v. g. . the baptism of males must be also with circumcision and an offering . . there must be a kinde of court of three israelites skilfull in law to approve it or else it is voyd , dr. hammond sect . . among the iews , saith the gemara babyl● ▪ the infants used to be baptized upon the profession or confession of the house of judgment , the consistory , and the gloss saith , the triumviri are set over baptism and are necessary to it , and so they become to him a father . and maimonides , he must be baptized before the triumviri . . it was not to be on the sabbath or feast day , or in the night . . the body must be washed not in a made receptacle of waters as a vessel or font , but a natural one as a river , pool , well . . no part of the body but must be washed , if any scab , or blood hardned or filth f●●ck on the body so as that water could not come to the whole supersicies it was not accounted right baptism , yet they allowed garments which separated not the water from the body . . while the proselytes stood in the water the precepts of moses were recited by the three israelites skilfull in the law , and he was to take on him the observation of them all not one excepted , or else not accounted a proselyte . . a woman proselyte was placed in the water unto the neck by women which baptized her , while the three israelites stood after the manner observing the baptism , yet they were to turn away their faces , and go away when the woman came out of the water . . elder gentiles were made proselytes according to their own choice , younger as males before thirteen years and a day old , females before twelve and a day old according to the minde of their father or the court to which they were subject were admitted to judaism . the same right was of a natural foole . yet if a person under years when baptized did after as soon as he came to age renounce judaism , then he lost what privilege he had by baptism either by assent of the parent or the court . . the baptism did give them interest in the policy of the iews as other israelites , except some things peculiarly reserved to natural israelites . . yet a servant without his masters consent was not made free . . a blessing was to be used at baptism , but unless he were made free , not by the servant , but by the master . . a young one as an infant , whether taken or found , the israelite that possessed it might baptize it , either into the state of an ingenuous person , or freed person , or a servant . . they taught that a person baptized was so born again , that lying with his own natural sister was no incest . if the person be privily baptized , though before two , yet he was not counted a proselyte . all which may be seen in selden l. . de jure nat . & gent. juxta discipl . ebr. cap. , . . lib. . de syned . ebr. cap. . so that if the baptism of proselytes among the iews be the patern of christian baptism , baptizing of women must be by women , no one single bishop or presbyter must baptize , but three at least , there must be no private baptism , no baptizing in fonts or basons , no baptism without the whole body be washed , and so as that no filth or scab hinder the water from coming to the skin , there should be no infants baptized but at the first conversion of the parent , no iew should be baptized , none baptized in the night , on the sabbath , or other feast-day . in most of which christ , iohn the baptist , and the apostles varied from the iews , and therefore they took not their baptism for their patern , and if they did not make the jews baptism their patern in baptizing , neither are we to do so , but to follow the rule of christs institution , and the apostles practice , and not the iews use , which is not delivered in scripture , and much of it according to the superstition and dotages of their rabbins , and was not a meet religious sacrament , but a kinde of mixt rite partly religious , and partly civil , intitling to civil as well as ecclesiastical right , and done by persons civil rather than ecclesiastical , and so of a far different nature and use from the christian baptism . i think dr. hammond were he a bishop would censure such baptizing as the iews used as irregular , and then he may well bear with antipaedobaptists , though they reject his new conceit of making the iewish baptism our patern , and thereupon grounding the baptizing of infants . himself in his practical catechism lib. . sect. . allows of sprinkling , though the iewish custome was dipping , yea they so precisely require it , that it was not counted baptism , except the whole body were washed , and yet the doctor confesseth , that by christs appointment the baptized was to be dipt in water , i. e. according to the primitive ancient custom to be put under water , and the words [ i baptize thee in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ] he sayth , being by christ prescribed to his disciples must indispensably be used . so that when the doctor pleaseth , the jewish custom must be the patern , and when he likes it not , or the bishops canons otherwise order it , he may vary from it : in one thing which christ did not prescribe , as the doctor sayth , nor did the apostles that we finde so conceive it , yet christs prescription must be indispensably used , yet in another thing though appointed by christ , and according to the primitive ancient custom , a dispensation is allowed by the doctor , because later custom varies from christs appointment and the primitive ancient custom . such a lesbian leaden rule the doctor dictates by , fit for such as have resolved rather to forgo christs appointment than the bishops canons . it is conceived christ instituted the lords supper , somewhat like the jews postcoenium after the passover shall then the iews after-supper be the patern to the christians in the lords supper ? if so , the lords supper must be in private , in the night , administred by the master of the house , no more to receive than were usually at the passover , not many hundreds , &c. the apostle paul cor. . . in the use of the lords supper , sets down what he received from the lord , without mentioning the iewish usage , which shews he would have christians in that rite keep to what christ appointed , not what the iews practiced . and should it not be so in baptism also ? it is conceived the use of laying on of hands in ordination , and the term [ presbyters ] were from the iews : must we then or may we take rules from their practice in ordination , and not ty our selves to the apostles canons and practice ? one presbyter or doctor it 's sayd , according to the ancient manner of the iews , might create another , and sometime by an epistle or books an absent person might be created , as may be seen in selden de syned . ebrae . vet . l. . c. . must these usages of theirs be a patern to christians ? the use of excommunication came from the iews discipline into the christian , yet so as that the same manner & effect was not retained in both , sayth the same authorin the same book , c. . out of all which i infer that in the use of those rites which were taken from the iews , and brought into the christian discipline ; yet our rule according to which christians are to observe those rites , is to be taken from the words and example of christ and his apostles , which i doubt not to make it appear do no whit serve for dr. hammonds purpose . mr. marshall in his defence , p. , . thinks , this to be a good argument , that baptism belongs to infants as well as grown men , because , baptism being in use before as an ecclesiastical rite , though it begun to be a sacrament of divine institution when iohn was sent to baptize into the name of christ , there arespecial testimonies in the talmud , which declare that infants both of iews and gentiles were thus admitted , the male children by circumcision and baptism , the females by baptism , &c. especially since there is not the least hint given in the word that when it was thus advanced to be a sacrament it should not be applied to those persons to whom before it was , viz. infants as well as grown men . but i think mr. m. cannot finde in the talmud the iews or their infants were thus baptized since the time of giving the law , exod. . . i confess the gentiles infants were baptized as is abovesayd ; yet as mr. ms. learned men mentioned in his defence , pag. . confess that the baptism of iohn and of the pharisees was for a different end , so dr. lightfoot harmony part . . pag. . saith , the iews baptism was clean of another nature from iohns . and in the second part of his harmony on iohn . . pag. . he shews sundry differences between them , and cites out of the iewish doctors some of those differences before alleged ; which are enough to shew that our baptism is not to be regulated by their practice . sure it is a wonder to me that mr. m. engaged to reform the worship of god according to gods word , and in his sermon on chron. . . admiring that ever mortal man should dare in gods worship to meddle any jot further than the lord himself hath commanded , should yet in the point of infant-baptism follow the talmud quite besides the lords command . but i return to dr. hammond . sect . xxv . dr. hammonds elusion of matth. . . alleged against infant-baptism is refelled . sect . ubi suprà , he sayth thus , and in the new testament i cannot foresee any words that may come under suspition of doing so , but those of matth. , . goteach all nations , baptizing them , &c. and those words being duly weighed are far from doing so . for the phrase which is there used in the original is a singular one , not duly exprest by our english [ teach ] it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , make disciples , or receive into discipleship all nations , baptizing them in the name , &c. making this form of baptism their ceremony of receiving them . you may see the word explained in a parallel phrase john ▪ . the pharisees heard that jesus makes more disciples and baptizeth than john , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where to make disciples and baptize is all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , where the baptizing being immediately annexed to the making or receiving disciples , and the receiving disciples not supposing any precedent instruction , but , looking wholly on it as subsequent ( in like manner as in this place v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ teaching ] follows after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , baptizing ) all that are thus brought and received ad discipulatum , to be for the future instructed , and instituted in the christian faith , may surely be received by baptism , the ceremony which is there prescribed by christ , with which to receive disciples . answ. though i conceive dr , hammond to ascribe more power to the canons of prelates about the sacraments than is meet , being one who hath written in defence of the common-prayer book , yet by this allegation of matth. . . he seems tacitely to yield that if the words there include not infants under the discipled , then there is something in the new testament , which excludes infants from baptism , although he say , sect. . i do not believe or pretend that that precept of christ doth necessarily infer ( though it do as little deny ) that infants are to be baptized . but me thinks if the doctor will stand to his own words elsewhere , he must acknowledg that by the precept of baptizing , matth. . . infants are excluded . for the doctor sayth , sect. . christs institution makes dipping or sprinkling with water a sacrament ; which institution is matth. . . and therefore the doctor will have the words there indisp●nsably used in baptism ; and sect. . he sayth , baptism is a sacrament , that sacrament an institution of christ that institution not founded in any reason of immutable truth , but onely in the positive will of christ , and so that there is nothing considerable in this question , ( or any of this nature ) but how it was delivered by christ. and sect. . that which was done by the apostles , if it were not a rule for ever , yet was an effect of such a rule formerly given by christ , and interpretable by this practice to be so . and practical catech. lib. . sect . . he expounding christs institution , sayth , that the words import that the person baptized acknowledgeth , maketh profession of believing in three , delivers himself to three , as authors of his faith , and to be ruled by the direction of this master , and this he will have to be meant by baptizing into the name of the father , son , and holy spirit : whence i infer , that if baptism be a sacrament , and made so by christs institution , and that institution founded onely in his positive will , and the will of christ be that baptism be into the name of the trinity , and this is when the baptized makes profession of believing in three , to be ruled by them , and the apostles practice interprets christs rule ; no infant that doth not profess faith is baptized into the name of the trinity , nor was appointed to be baptized by christ , nor did the apostles baptize them , and therefore they are not baptized according to christs institution , and so no sacrament to them . yea , if the positive will of christ be the reason of baptism , they usurp upon christs prerogative , who baptize otherwise than christ hath appointed & then if the precept of christ doth not necessarily infer infantbaptsm ( which the doctor ingenuously acknowledgeth ) it doth by manifest consequence deny it , sith he forbids that to be done otherwise han he hath appointed , when he hath determin'd how it should be done . the doctor when he sayth above , the words [ i baptize into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ] must be indispensably used ; me thinks by the same reason should conceive christs institution should be unalterably used in baptizing those onely whom he hath appointed to be baptized . but let us consider what shift the doctor makes to elude the force of christs institution , matth. . . that it may not be thought to exclude infants from baptism . i grant that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is best rendred [ make disciples ] and like it well , that he acknowledgeth [ makes disciples , and baptizeth , john . . ] is all one with [ making disciples , baptizing them , matth. . . ] but i deny , . that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is well paraphrased by [ receive into discipleship all nations , baptizing them in the name , &c. making this form of baptism their ceremony of receiving them ] for by it the making disciples is made the same with receiving into discipleship or receiving disciples , and baptism the ceremony of receiving into discipleship , which is as truly the act of the baptized thereby professing or avouching his discipleship . . that the making or receiving discipleship supposeth not any precedent instruction , but looks wholly on it as subsequent . for . that which in matthew is expressed by , go ye therefore and make disciples all nations , is in mark . . go ye into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature ; which shews how they should disciple all nations . now they who are made disciples by preaching the gospel are made disciples by precedent instruction . ergo , the making or receiving disciples matth. . . supposeth precedent instruction . . such as the making disciples was ioh. . . such is the making disciples , mat. . . for by the doctors confession they are all one . but that was by preaching , as is plain concerning iohn , matth. . , , , . and concerning the apostles , mat. . , , . ergo. whence , . i further argue , that way the apostles were to disciple all nations by which they were to disciple the lost sheep of the house of israel , but that was by preaching , ergo , discipling supposeth precedent instruction . . from the use and notation of the word , which is so to teach as that they learn , and so is used matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is rendred [ instructed ] by our last translators , and can be no otherwise rendred than [ made a disciple by teaching ] so acts . . it is sayd , having preacht the gospel to that city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and having taught or made many disciples . whence , . it may appear how the apostles understood the precept of christ to preach the gospel to persons , and thereby make them disciples . . a disciple and a believer appear to be the same by comparing matth. . . with mark . , . for as the way of making disciples is more fully expressed by preaching the gospel ; so the disciple to be baptized is expressed by [ the believer ] which is put before baptism . nor is it against this that after baptism they are to be taught , matth. . . for that teaching is expressed to be the teaching the observation of all that he commanded : but the teaching that makes disciples is the preaching the gospel . so that the plain order and meaning of christs words is this , that . the apostles should not stay onely within the land of israel , but go into all the world. . that they should by preaching the gospel , declaring that jesus was the christ , make them disciples , that is , taught concerning christ , or believers in him . . that they should baptize them . . that they should then teach them to observe all his commands . now infants are not made disciples by preaching the gospel , therefore by christs institution not appointed to be baptized , and therefore are baptized without his warrant , and consequently unlawfully . what dr. hammond sayth sect . . were it all granted him , yet it would no whit avail to prove that an infant may be a disciple appointed by christ to be baptized . for let putting to school be as early as the doctor will imagine , yet none is put to school till he doth know his teacher , and so none is christs disciple in the scripture-language till he know jesus to be christ , and take him for his lord , which infants being not capable of , they are not disciples , nor to be baptized according to christs appointment . what he adds s. , . is not right . for . it is not true , that a disciple and a proselyte are perfectly all one . for a proselyte notes one that is by birth an alien from the common-wealth of israel , and comes to the israelites to own their god , and be part of their policy , not to be taught but to enjoy privileges with other jews , whether civil or ecclesiastical . there is no mention of the disciples of the priests , but of the pharisees and sadduces : but a disciple of christ is one that owns christ for his teacher and lord onely for spiritual benifits . nor doth the holy ghost at any time call christians christs proselytes but his disciples , that we might not confound the notions of these terms . and though the origination of the word [ proselyte ] be from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to come to , and christ saith , suffer little children to come to me , and this infers their capacity of proselytism , and the next words [ for of such is the kingdom of god ] suppose them particularly qualified for it , yet that coming and imagined pro●elytism being onely for ablessing by prayer , and laying on of hands , not to be made disciples or baptized , this will not prove them capable of being made disciples according to christs appointment till by hearing the gospel they own christ as their master . the like may be said of the entering into covenant , deut. . . which though in some sense it should be yielded , that infants may enter into covenant , that is , by their parents act engaging them under a curse or oath to own god as theirs , in which sense the posterity then unborn did enter into covenant , v. . yet this is insufficient to prove , that such an entering into covenant makes infants disciples or subjects of baptism according to christs appointment . for in it such a discipling is injoyned as is by preaching the gospel , and they onely are disciples to be baptized who are believers , and they onely are appointed to be baptized who in their own persons do enter into covenant , or engage themselves to be christs followers . sect . xxvi . dr. hammond neither from cor. . . nor from sayings of ancients proves that the apostles baptized infants . hereto dr. hammond adds , to confirm his opinion of christs intention to include infants in the institution of baptism for all nations , and not to exclude them from it , the passage cor. . . in which he imagines is a remain and footstep of the apostles practice of baptizing infants . . the practice of the first and purest ages of the church , which received infants to baptism , and either by so doing testifie the apostolical usage transcribed by them , or else affirm , that they received it by tradition from the apostles . in both which how he is mistaken remains to be shewed . first he sets down this , which he cais a brief paraphrase , though it be too large for a paraphrase , and takes in more than he can with any colour shew to have any thing in the text answering to it . his words of paraphrase of corinth . . , , . are these . vers. . if any christian husband hath an heathen wife , and she be desirous to continue with him , he ought not to put her away , unbelief being no sufficient cause of divorce by the law of christ. vers. . and so in like manner , for the christian wife that is married to an infidel , if he be desirous to live with her , let her by no means separate from him . vers. . for ( beside the command of christ , matth. . . which obligeth to this ) other advantages there are of the believers living with the unbeleiver , worth considering . for by this means it hath oft come to pass that the unbelieving party hath been brought to the faith by the company and conversation of the believer ; and considering the efficacy of good example , pet. . . and seasonable exhortation and instruction on presumption of the great zeal ( and consequent endeavours and diligence ) that by the law of christianity the husband will have to the eternal good of any so near him , as a wife is , there is great reason of hope that still it may be so , that their living together may produce this effect in the unbeliever , and the intuition of that ( more than possible ) effect may reasonably move the christian party not to forsake the other voluntarily . and this one consideration , viz. the probability that the conversation of the believer pet. . . should gain , i. e. bring the unbeliever to the faith , and the reasonable presumption that it will be so , is the reason why the young children of christians , which cannot as yet be deemed believers , are yet admitted to baptism , because by their living in the family with christian parents they probably , and by the obligation lying on the parents ought to be brought up in the faith , and kept from heathen pollutions , and the church requiring and receiving promise from the parents ) doth reasonably presume they will. and upon this ground it is , that though the children of christians are , yet the children of heathens are not admitted to baptism . answer . this paraphrase is many ways faulty , and far from the meaning of the apostle . . it puts in many things as explicatory of the text , to which there is nothing answerable in the apostles words . for , . there is nothing that answers to [ by this means it hath oft come to pass ] nor , . to these words [ by the company and conversation of the believer ] yea the term [ believer ] is quite omitted by the apostle , which considering the term [ unbeliever ] twice expressed seems to have been done wittingly , that it might not be taken , that he ascribed the sanctification to the faith of the one party . surely when men specially in arguments place the force of a reason in a term they use not to omit it , as the apostle doth here , but to express it remarkably , and with emphasis . . all the words [ and considering the efficacy of good example , pet. . . and seasonable exhortation and instruction on presumption of the great zeal ( and consequent endeavours and diligence ) that by the laws of christianity the husband will have to the eternal good of any so near to him as a wife is , there is great reason of hope that it still may be so , that their living together may produce this effect in the unbeliever , and the intuition of that ( more than possibly ) effect , may reasonably move the christian party not to forsake the other voluntarily ] are added without any thing in the least intimated by the words of the text , but the contrary , even according to his exposition , who makes the term [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctified ] refer to some past known examples , and therfore the forepart of the verse hath not at all that which answers to [ on presumption , &c. there is great reason of hope , &c. ] which import a contingent event for the future , not a thing past , which is always certain . . the term [ young children of christians which cannot as yet be deemed believers ] is more and otherwise than is in the text , which hath onely [ your children ] which is not restrained to infancy , nor doth it appear , that [ your ] doth imply they were considered as christians , so as that there should be this construction [ your children are holy , because they are children of christians ] distinguishingly from infidels , but [ your children ] that is , the children of you that doubt , who have had unbelieving husbands and wives , and have had or may have children by them . so that the term [ your ] onely notes the particularity and individuation of the persons , and if considered in any respect besides , it is their doubting condition , or their having unbelieving yoke-fellows . . there is nothing to answer those words [ because by their living in the family with christian parents they probably , and by the obligation lying on the parents ought to be brought up in the faith , and kept from heathen pollutions , ( and the church requiring and receiving promise from the parents ) doth reasonably presume they will ] . nor is there any thing answering to these words [ your children ] which his own paraphrase applies to christians children . so that the doctors paraphrase is beyond measure culpable in respect of addition . . it is blameable also in omitting that which the text expresly and emphatically mentions , to wit , the terms [ wife , husband ] when he sayth , [ the unbelieving party hath been brought to the faith by the company and conversation of the believer , and after , the probability that the conversation of the believer should bring the unbeliever to the faith ] which may be meant of a companion , brother , father , mother , neighbour . . there is much faultiness in quite altering the importance of the apostles words , by substituting instead of were or should be ] in the apostles words [ ought to be , they will be ] in the paraphrase . which is the more blameable in that himself sect. pag. . doth more truly retain the force of those expressions in the apostle , when he sayth , [ the method of the apostle must needs be this , unless there were , &c. ' ●would certainly follow that their children were unclean ] so that the pretended brief paraphrase of the apostles words is very faulty , far from the rule of a paraphrase , and instead of explaining doth quite pervert the meaning of the words . . for many other reasons the exposition of the doctor cannot be right . for . in his paraphrase of the apostles resolution v. . he puts [ ought ] and of v. . [ let her by no means ] as if the apostle did make it a necessary duty , that they must continue together , whereas the apostle answerably to their doubt doth onely resolve them of the lawfulness of their continuing together , not of the necessity of it , and so v. . is a reason of the lawfulness of it notwithstanding their doubt , which appears from the resolution v. . [ if the unbeliever will depart let him depart ] which cannot be expounded otherwise than thus , you are not bound to stay as you are not bound to cause her to depart or to relinquish him , you are at your liberty . for the very next words [ a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases ] do shew that the resolution was of liberty , not of duty , contrary to the doctors paraphrase . now that resolution v. . is of the same form with his determination v. , . . he makes the resolution to be of a duty v. , . yet makes v. . to be a motive of the will , when he saith , [ may reasonably move ] as if the apostle were not deciding a doubt , but perswading the will , and that from such a thing as cannot be reason of duty or liberty , but as it is by him expounded a perswasive to win on the affections , not to settle the judgment , and yet p. . he saith , [ the unbeliever having been sanctified by the believer is used as an argument why they should live together . ] . he puts [ unbelieving husband v. . ] as if he were another than he that is mentioned v. . for v. . the unbelieving husband was at that present an unbeliever : but according to his sense expounding v. . thus , [ it hath oft come to pass that the unbelieving party hath been brought to the faith by the company and conversation of the believer ] the unbelleving husband must be meant of one that was once an unbeliever , not so then . now then the apostle should after this exposition give a reason why the present believing wife need not leave her husband , because another unbelieving husband by another believing wife hath been brought to the faith . which wherein it could tend to any satisfaction for them that doubted whether they might lawfully live together because of the present unbelief of the yoke-fellow i see not . . such a reason will appear the more unlikely to be satisfactory , because as it hath often happened that the unbeliever hath been won by the wife , so it hath often happened to the contrary , and it is likely the persons whom he resolved had complained , that they had small hopes of their husbands conversion , and so the reason of their living together from experience would be more likely to be retorted back thus , you perswde us to live together , you tell us we may , because it often comes to pass that the unbeliever is brought to the faith : but our experience is to the contrary , we see many not converted , and our own are obstinate and hardned , and therefore this reason doth disswade us , and resolve us that we may not live with him . . hence another exception is against this exposition , that it makes the apostle to resolve them of their duty or liberty by that which was a meer contingent event which might be or not be . for this exposition makes the reason of their living together to be from what had hapened & might be : whereas a contingent event is impertinent to that end , to say , we may lawfully do such a thing , because its likely such a good effect may follow . a contingent event is unfit to resolve of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of a thing without some other rule , things being unlawfull or lawfull not according to disagreement from or agreement to gods will of purpose what shall be , but his will of command what he requires to be omitted or done . besides this contingent event here was uncertain as appears v. . what knowest thou ? implies , thou canst not tell whether thou shalt save thy husband ? perhaps thou mayst . nor doth the apostle mention any promise it should be so , but mentions it onely as a contingent event that might be or not be . . besides it is from such an event as is impertinent to the lawfulness or unlawfulness of living together . for the past conversion of others and the future conversion of our own yoke-fellows is meerly extrinsecal to our duty or liberty , though it be much to our conveniency , and therefore it is fitly urged v. . after the resolution of the judgment v. , , . is there any shew of reason why i should live with my own unbelieving husband , because anothers unbelieving husband was converted by her , or because there is great reason of hope it will be so with mine ? this would intimate that future events make our present state or acts lawfull or unlawfull , which is somewhat like the turks conceit who judged , that pleaseth god which succeeds prosperously , and that to displease , which fals out unhappily . . according to this exposition , v. . should be the same argument with v. . and so there should be an unnecessary repetition of the same argument . . by this exposition the sanctifying of an unbeliever should be ascribed to a woman , whereas ( though i deny not that she is said to save , v. ● . to win , pet. . . to convert , james . . ) sanctifying is never ascribed to any but god and his spirit . so cor. . . ye are sanctifyed by the spirit of our god. . the word [ holy ] is expounded in a sense no where else found , nor is there any reason of that sense by way of allusion or otherwise given by the doctor , though according to him a known fact is expressed which had another appellation used commonly even in that epistle , ch . . , , , , . & . . for he expounds [ holy ] by [ are admitted to baptism ] and so makes the apostle in narration of a fact to use a term to express what was in his conceit well known to them by a term not imagined to note the thing elsewhere , when there was another term [ baptized ] used in the same epistle and familiar to them . . he makes the apostle to infer the lawfulness or duty of living together from that contingent event , which might with like probability be brought to pass by another than the believing yoke-fellow , even by the endeavour of a father , mother , brother , sister , companion , especially a preacher of the gospel . so that if this reason were of force to conclude husband and wife might live together , because one may bring the other to the faith , the reason might be as good for father and daughter , son and mother , brother and sister , companions , preacher and people to couple or live together , because it hath been and there is great reason to hope one may convert the other . . according to his exposition the apostles speeches were not right . for according to him the meaning should be unless there were cohabiting , and there had been an unbelieving husband brought to the faith by the wife , and vice versa the corinthians children could not reasonably be presumed to be admitted to baptism . . upon this ground that an unbelieving husband was brought to the faith by the wife and vice versa , and there is great reason it might be so for the future the children of believing corinthians unequally matched were admitted to baptism . himself pag. . saith . this must needs be the method of the apostles arguing , unless there were some hope , that the 〈◊〉 of a believer should be a means to bring an unbeliever to t●● saith ' tw●●l● certainly follow , their children were unclean , that is not admitted to baptism . now i think all paedobaptists will disclaim as manifestly false this proposition , that the believing corinthians young children were not or could not be , or it could not be reasonably presumed they should be admitted to baptism , till the unbelieving yoke-fellow were converted , or without hopes or reasonable presumption , that he might be won to the faith by the believer . it is such a toy as i cannot imagine they will own when they discern it . if they do they must quite change their plea and practise about infant baptism , their plea being from the imagined federal holines of the childe of one believer without consideration of the others present or future faith , and their practise being to baptize infants of one believer , though the other parent died or should die in professed unbelief . and for the other proposition it is a like false , that whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , note as much as hoc . posito , upon this ground as the doctor expresseth it , or to be an adverb of time noting when their children were holy it is most false , that upon the ground of hopes of cohabiting and the conversion of the unbelieving , yoke-fellow , and experience of what happened , the corinthian believers yonger children no● deemed yet believers , were admitted to baptism , or were reasonably presumed to be admitted , or that they were then admitted to baptism when the unbelieving husband was converted , or likely to be converted by the believing wife and not before . this proposition i make no question other paedobaptists will disclaim , nor need i any other proof against his sense than his own words against another interpretation brought in as the anabaptists , though i know none that so interpret it . i use his own words pag. . sect . . mutatis mutandis . now i demand of this pretended interpretation , whether it be possible saint pauls argument should conclude in this sense ? suppose the corinthian parents of these younger children had been one a believer , and the other an unbeliever , could it of them be concluded , if they did not upon the hope of doing good one upon the other cohabit , their children could not be holy by designation of the church in baptism , to which when they are brought by the congregation and admitted by the minister they are thus consecrated and devoted to god ? this were absolutely to confine the churches designations to holiness and the ministers admissions thereto to none but the children of believers , as if the childe of parents whereof one is a believer were not thus holy , and admitted to baptism without experience of what hath been done in converting the unbeliever by the believer , and hopes it should be so . it is known that admission to baptism depends upon chrsts institution , not upon such accidental conditions as is the cohabiting of the parents , the experience of the converting some unbeliever by the believing yoke-fellow , and hopes so of theirs . . unto all these i add , that i never read or heard any expositor antient or modern so expounding , as this doctor or dictator doth , nor do i think he can shew any . sure i am augustin . tom . . de pec● . merito & remiss . c. . saith , ac per hoc et illa sanctificatio cujuscunque modi sit , quam in filiis fidelium esse dixit apostolus ad istam de baptismo & p●ccati origine vel remissione quaestionem omninò non pertinet . but let us consider what dr. hammond brings for this paraphrase , sect. . he speaks thus , that this is the true importance of the apostles words , and force of his arguing doth for the former part of it appear evident . first , by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hath been sanctified , which must needs refer to some past known examples and experiences of this kinde , or else there could be no reasonable account given of the apostles setting it in the praeter-tense . answ. as dr. hammonds paraphrase expresseth it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should signifie not onely that an unbelieving husband hath been sanctified , but also that there is hope they will , and so it should note , not onely some example past , but also some to come , of which there can be a less reasonable account given than of putting it in the present-tense in english. but sayth he , it is put in the praeter-tense in greek . answ. i presume the doctor knows that enallage or change of tense is frequent in languages , even in the greek , though it abound in tenses above other languages . in the same epistle c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the present-tense is put for the future , even in the same verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is rendred by dr. hammond himself , else were your chidren unclean , so that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & so an enallage either of tense or mood , or both . and in the very next vers . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is manifestly put in the praeter-tense for the present , as all interpreters i know render it , & the same enallage or change of tense camerarius conceives in the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and , which is chiefest , this sense seems to be●it it best , there being no plainer and clearer than this , therefore the believer may live with the unbelieving yoke-fellow ; because the husband though an infidel , yet is to his own wife , in respect of her , and to her conjugal use , a● if he were sanctified . but if it be in the praeter-tense , yet it may be understood of a past thing yet continued , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , john . . notes an act still continued in force . so that notwithstanding the doctors conceit , yet there may be a very reasonable account given without understanding it of an example of another person sanctified heretofore by another wife , which is very far from the apostles meaning , as i shew before . secondly , sayth he , by the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by or through the wife . this the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so ordinarilly signifies , that it cannot need to be farther testified , ( in this notion it is that we here take it ) whereas the notion which by opposers is here affixt to it , that it should signifie to ( that to which is a sign of the dative-case ) [ sanctified to the wife , ( as meat to the believer ) made lawfull to her to live with ] is never once found to belong to it , in the new testament , nor can with any tolerable congruity or grammatical analogy be affixt to it . all the places that are produced for this sense are commonly mistaken . so matth. . . [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] is not fecerunt ei , they have done to him , but on him or against him : so as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is an ordinary acception of it . so acts . . there is no name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is not [ given unto men ] but among men : and that is an ordinary notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for among , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is god among us ? and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , christ among us , and many the like . so cor. . . god hath called us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : it is not to , as the note of a dative-case , but unto peace , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is again taken for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so ga●l : . . to reveal his own son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : it is not [ to me ] but [ by or through me to others ] as it follows , that i might preach him . and when it there follows , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is not [ to but again among the gentiles ] and pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is add unto your saith virtue , &c. in the notion of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unto your faith , or over and above that , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , superadd virtue , or fortitude , or constancy , that which in this time of persecution they stood so much in need of . and so still the rendring it [ to the wife ] will be without any one example , and the turning it quite into another phrase , as if it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which to do without any necessity or reason ( save onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to serve the opposers turn upon the place , and support his false opinion , must needs be very unreasonable . answ. i subscribe to this last speech : but all that the doctor saith makes me not to recede from the rendering of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . [ to ] as noting the dative case , and being redundant . not out of any necessity to serve my turn : for if it be read [ in the wife and expounded as beza doth annot. in locum respectu uxoris , in respect of the wife , expounding [ is or hath been sanctified in the wife ] thus , hath been or is enioyed in coniugal use lawfully in respect of his wife , it will as well serve my turn . and in this sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is as much as ergà towards , apud with , and is as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the sense that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are used , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but it will not serve the doctors turn unless he can prove that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] must be renderd [ by ] and notes the instrument , yea and [ by the wife ] must signify [ by the company and conversation of the believer ] which supplement is not yet proved , no● do i think can be proved to be necessary . the reason why i still adhere to the reading of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to ] is , . because it seems to me the fairest , easiest , and most congruous sense thus to expound it . the believer may abide with the unbelieving yoke-fellow . for though he be an unbeliever , and so in himself unsanctified , yet in or to the wife or his wife he is as if he were sanctified , it 's all one in respect of lawfull conjugal use as if he were sanctified . . because , though the doctor deny it , yet i aver the notion of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for to as a sign of the dative case ] is found more than once in the new testament , and may with good congruity and grammatical analogy be affixt to it . of the which places the first he brings cannot be eluded . . because the same speech which is mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is mark . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and rendered by beza in the former place fecerunt ei they did to him . . whereas he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on him or against him , and that this is an ordinary acception of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i grant that it is an ordinary acception to use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but not in the sense he here conceives , to wit as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes [ on or against a person . ] it had been meet the doctor should have given at least one instance of such a construction , which i do not yet believe he can do . however if he could , yet me thinks it should satisfie that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , notes no more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and is a sign of the dative case , because mark , who seems to have abbreviated matthew , so expresseth it ; and the common use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when it notes dealings of man to man whether good or bad is usually expressed by the dative case : as matth. . , & . . & . . & . , . & . , . there is another instance which i conceive cannot be eluded , to wit , col. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was preached in every creature . where , . there is no other sense than that of the dative case that hath any tolerable conguity or grammatical analogy affixt to it . mr. den's conceit of preaching the gospel in the sun , moon , &c. is so wild that i presume , it will be easily rejected . for let men imagine the most they can of gods grace discernible in the creature , yet the gospel in which christians hope and of which paul was a minister is not discernible thereby . nor is here any place for those conceits of putting [ in ] for on , against , among , over and above or the like ] for the use of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to preach , is commonly with a dative case of the object , as cor. . . pet. . . acts . . & . . luke . . i deny not but tim. . . it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but our translators have there renderd it [ unto the gentiles ] the vulgar [ praedicatum est gentibus ] beza [ praedicatus est gentibus ] as if there it noted onely the dative case . and if there it should be [ among the gentiles ] yet it cannot be so col. . . because the object is in the singular number : but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it is for [ among ] is joyned still to a noune of the plural . it is true thes. . . it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but unto you is no more than to you , and shews not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 also notes the same with the dative case without either preposition . . that which puts , this thing out of all doubt the phrase col. . . answers ( as beza camerarius , piscator , &c. conceive , and me thinks none should deny ) to that mark . . where our lord chrst bids 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , preach the gospel to every creature , and there that which was expressed by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 col. . . is expressed onely by the dative case without it mark . . nor do i yet conceive but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . is better renderd [ to men ] than among men . ] . because the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the several voyces and other verbs of giving have most regularly and constantly a dative of the person after them , as both grammarians in their syntaxes teach , & many instances in the new testament prove , as acts . . & . . & . . . & . , , , , . besides many more there and throughout the sacred writings . . because if it had been [ among men ] it had been to be placed after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , other ; for so the sense would have been clear , there is no other name among men given , but being placed after given , it is to be expounded as referred to given , not to other , and so must not be read among men , but to men . . it seems to me not good sense , or not true , that christ was a name given among men : for though he were among men , yet he was given from above . . to all which i add the words of beza annot. in act. apost . c. . v. . inter homines , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beadam , id est , hominibus ut rectè convertit vet us interpres , & ireneus quoque lib. . cap. . sicut insra . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , non aliud declarat quàm 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . camerarius renders it , attributum hominibus . and for the other text gal. . . me thinks the doctors exposition makes the apostle tautologize ineptly , when he expounds when it pleased god to reveal his son , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not to me , but by or through me to others . for what is it to reveal his son by him or through him to others , but to preach the gospel to them ? and is it not then to tautologize to say , when it pleased god , that i should preach the son of god to others that i might preach the gospel ? can preaching the gospel be fitly sayd to be the end or consequent of preaching the son of god which is all one with preaching the gospel ? and for pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there is no reason to imagine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sith the simple and compound are usually put with the dative after them , as cor. . . gal. . . and in other authors . nor do i finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in any author , and what the doctor observes , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes superadde , it rather confirms it , that as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes over , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes to ; no● is the doctor i suppose ignorant of that rule in grammar , verba addendi , supplendi regunt dativum . besides these i have alleged in the first part of this review s. . pag. . out of the septuagint . deut. . . kings . . plain passages of putting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so as to note the dative case , with the speeches of some learned men , whereto i add that psal. . . that which the septuagint hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the apostle hath ephes. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which i take to be more than enough to refute the doctors speech that the notion wherein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to , which is a sign of the dative caese is never once found to belong to it in the new testament , nor can with any tolerable congruity or grammatical analogy be affixt to it , and that he talks ad randum , when he intimates , that by co●struing it so , cor. . . ther 's a turning it quite to another phrase to serve the turn upon the place . the doctor goes on thus . thirdly , this appears most irrefragably , by the express words added on this argument , v. . where [ the unbelievers having been sanctified by the believer ] ( used as an argument why they should live together ) is farther explained by these words of an undoubted perspicuous sense ; for what knowest thou o wife whether thou shalt save thy husband ? or how knowest thou o husband whether thou shalt save thy wife ? where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , save . which ordinarily signifies to reduce , as it is pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to gain ) to repentance from heathenism or wicked life is set parallel to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sanctifying , and makes it clear what was meant by it . answ. however the doctor conceive , yet doth it not appear to me probably , much less irrefragably by express words , that v. . is added further as an explanation of the words , v. . the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife . for , . though some conceive v. . to be put parenthetically as grotius , and that v. . belongs to the matter of v. , , . yet beza , piscator , and others conceive that v. . hath reference to the words v. . god hath called us to peace , that is , to live peaceably together , & as an encouragement thereto v. . is added : none that i know besides the doctor makes v. . to explain the forepart of v. . . nor is there likelihood that the apostle doth use v. . as an explanation of the forepart of v. . it being not his wont to express a thing obscurely , and than presently to express it more plainly , or to use unnecessary repetitions in such short resolutions as are here , especially there being not any thing mystical in it , but matter of fact . . if he had made v. . an explanation of the words v. . the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife and vice versa , he would have usdd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as rom. . . or some such like term ; but he useth cor. . . the expression 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for how knowest thou ? which plainly sheweth it to be a further argument to move them to live together , not an explanation of a former speech : for [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ] is a particle shewing it to be a further reason of it . . it to me appears irrefragably , because according to the doctors exposition v. . doth not explain the forepart of v. . for according to him the word [ hath been sanctified ] must needs refer to some past known examples and experiments of converting of other unbelieving yoke . fellows by the believing parties , or else sayth he , there could be no reasonable account given of the apostles setting it in the praeter-tense . but v. . for what knowest thou o wife whether thou shalt save thy husband ? or how knowest thou o man whether thou shalt save thy wife ? mentions a thing to be , and that as a possible but not certain event , and that concerning one that is an unbeliever . now that the words mentioning a possible uncertain event concerning others should explain the words that speak of a thing past about others is out of my reach : surely it seems to me ridiculous to paraphrase , v. . the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife , thus , for what knowest thou o wife whether thou shalt save thy husband ? and therefore i take the doctors conceits in this to be his dotage . the doctor adds , sect. . which being once yielded to be the true meaning of the first part , there will then be little reason to doubt but that this of the admission of the christian children to baptism on this score , is the importance of the later part , that and no other being it , which exactly accords with the former reasoning , and it being not imaginable , that this should be here added in that argumentative stile [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whereas ( or for ) elsewere , &c. if it were not an enforcing of the foregoing position thus proved by him . answ. it is true the style is argumentative , and [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , else were ] shews the latter part of the verse , cor. . . to be an inforcing of the foregoing position of the same verse asserted , i say not proved by him . but that this exposition [ else were your children unclean , that is , not admitted to baptism , but now they are holy , that is , admitted to christian baptism ] exactly accords with the former reasoning yielded , so as that the doctors paraphrase being once yielded to be the true meaning of the first part there will be little reason to doubt but that this , of the admission of the christian children to baptism on this score is the importance of the later part , is so far from having any colour of truth , that in my apprehension the doctors exposition makes the apostles words are nam sine calce , sand without lime , that is without connexion . for what shew of connexion is there in this consequence , if some other unbelieving yoke-fellow had not been converted by the faith , diligence and conversation of the believing party that then was , then the children of you who are believers , but begotten or brought forth by one that yet is an unbeliever had not been admitted to christian baptism in infancy : but now , that is upon this score that some former unbelieving yoke-fellows have been brought to the faith of christ by the faith , conversation and diligence of the believer , they have been admitted to baptism ? according to the tenour of this reasoning these propositions should be included in the apostles argument . the children of a believing yoke-fellow who is joyned to an unbeliever had not been admitted to christian baptism , if some other believing yoke-fellow had not been brought to the faith . the children of a believer by a unbelieving yoke-fellow have been admitted to christian baptism by reason that it hath been usual that other believers have brought the unbeliever to the faith . whence will follow . . that at the first conversion of a people , at whieh time there is no experiment of such events of the believing yoke-fellows bringing the infidel to the faith , then the infants of the believer were not admitted to christian baptism : which is directly contrary to the jewish batizing infants of proselytes , which is onely at first conversion , which yet the doctor will have the patern of our christian baptism . . that the doctor derives a title to baptism of this believers infant children from the diligence and happy success which another believer hath had , which is a thing meerly extrinsecal to the institution of baptism . for where did ever christ say , baptize those or their children who are yoke-fellows to unbelievers , for some other believing yoke-fellows have had good success in converting their yoke-fellows to the faith ? i can hardly forbear to call such reasoning à baculo ad angulum . on the other side , the doctors exposition makes the children of the believer joyned to the unbeliever not capable of christian baptism , if there had not been some experiment of a believer bringing to the faith the unbelieving yoke-fellow , and some hopes that the present unbeliever would become a christian by the diligence of the other yoke fellow , which would exclude the believers childe from baptism whose yoke-fellow is deceased in unbelief , and so the conversion of that person is hopeless . so that what ever pretences are made for infant-baptism , no children ( according to the doctors exposition ) of a believer can be rightly baptized without proof of such experiment of the converting of the unbeleiving yoke-fellow by the believer ; it would not suffice that the conversion be by a minister , &c. now this being rare and hard to prove , it will certainly make questionable , if not void most of the pretended infant baptisms that are . confident i am that no paedobaptist ancient or modern besides the doctor ever asserted paedobaptism on this score , which is the onely ground , if the doctors exposition of the apostle be right . the ancients did admit to baptism any ones childe whether pagans or believers being brought to them , as i shew in my examen part . . sect . . but i need say no more to refute this exposition being the most unlikely of all that i have hitherto met with : he tels us sect. . what is thought fit to be brought for the eluding and avoiding this interpretation will be most fitly considered anon in answer to the anabaptists plea. answ. the falsly so called anabaptists have not allowed dr. jeremiah taylour to make their plea , nor do they all , if any of them frame their plea as he lays it , yet it is shewed above , that the reply dr. hammond makes to overthrow their pretended answer overthrows his own exposition . but he goes on , mean while for the confirming of it , it may be remembered , what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , holy is known to signify in the sacred dialect , not onely an inherent , but a relative holiness , being separate or set apart to god , discriminated from common ordinary things , or persons , and as that belongs to higher degrees of separation , the office of a prophet or the like , so the lowest degree of it is that of being received to be members of the church , into which all are initiated by baptism . and accordingly , all visible professors , and not onely those that are sincerely such , are in ezra . . the holy seed , and in the epistles of the apostles called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , holy . answ. this being all granted confirms not dr. hammonds exposition , now they are holy that is admitted to christian baptism . the doctor knows its no good argument à genere ad speciem affirmative , the children are holy that is set a part for god , discriminated from common ordinary things or persons , ergo they are set apart by the special way of baptism . and it being granted that all visible professors , and not onely those that are sincerely such are in ezra . . the holy seed , and in the epistles of paul called holy ( though that term ezra . . hath a far different notion , as i shew in this review antipaed . part . . sect . , . from what the doctor imagines ) yet till the doctor prove infants to be visible professors he hath not confirmed , that the taking of [ holy cor. . . ] for [ infants admitted to baptism ] is agreeable to the apostles language . he adds sect. . and secondly how the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unclean , is used by st. peter , acts . . for those that must not ( as he conceived ) be received into the church , as [ god 's having cleansed ] is gods reputing them fit to be partakers of that privilege . whereby it appears how fitly receiving and not receiving to baptism may be expressed by those phrases . answ. i deny not the fitness of the expressing receiving and not receiving to baptism by the terms of holy and unclean , if the holy ghost had so thought good . but su●e the doctor is mistaken in the notion of unclean , acts . . for it is plain from acts . . that an unclean person is in that place one that was not onely out of the church , but also one that a jew conceived he might neither go into , nor eat with him , yea though he were a proselyte of the gate , and owned the god of israel . now then if the same notion of unclean and holy be cor. . . as is acts . . an unclean person is one that a man may not go into , nor eat with . which applied to infants is ridiculous ; else if the unbelieving yoke-fellow had not been sanctified , that is , brought to the faith by the conversation and diligence of the believer your children had been unclean , that is , such as they might not go in to , nor eat with them , but now their in●ants are holy , such as they might go in to and eat with them . thirdly , sayth he , how the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is ordinarily to sanctifie , doth among the jews ( whence this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is taken ) as when the high priests washing his hands and his feet ten times on the day of expiation is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ten sanctifications , joma , cap. . sect . . which being the word which denotes the washing some part of the body , and distinguished in use from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the immersion of the whole body , may perhaps be an intimation , that the primitive baptisms were not always immersions of the whole body , but that sprinkling of some part the literal importance of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctifications might be sufficient . answ. if this reason were good , it would rather confirm this exposition [ the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified by the wife , that is , the unbelieving husband hath been baptized by the wife or washed ] than this , the children are baptized , for they are no● sayd to be sanctified , but to be holy . and then the apostle relates it as a thing oft used among christians , that believing wives did baptize or wash unbelieving husbands : which so expounded is a plain testimony for womens baptism of their own unbelieving husbands , & so hath better ground from this text than infant baptism . what the doctor draws in besides the business , to put some colour on their sprinkling instead of baptism , is but a fig-leaf too narrow to cover the nakedness of their practice . the doctor himself pag. . makes the baptism which was a jewish solemnity , the washing of the whole body . and sect. . pag. , . he sayth , jethro was made a proselyte by immersion or baptism in waters , and the manner of this immersion is sayd to be that they should be set up to the neck in water . and pag. . unless he be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 baptized he is a gentile . and out of arrian the jewish proselyte is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dipped , and he that is onely so in shew not in deed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a counterfeit baptized person . in his pract. catech. lib. . sect . . by christs appointment whosoever should be thus received into his family should be received with this ceremony of water , therein to be dipt , i. e. according to the primitive ancient custom to be put under water three times . his words following intimating as if sprinkling were appointed by christ instead of it , are his own figment . pag. . he makes the ancient manner of putting the person under water , and then taking him out again , to denote dying and rising again , with more of the like confessions , and even in this place sayth , the washing some part of the body is distinguished in use from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which answers to the greek word baptism ) which is immersion of the whole body . and yet the doctor is not ashamed to say , that primitive baptisms were not always immersions of the whole body , ( which me thinks he should hardly believe himself in ) and because the besprinkling of some part ( which i think is not true , if sprinkling by water and not bloud or ashes be meant , for the priests in their sanctifications dipped their hands and feet in water ; is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctifications , to intimate as if any kinde of sanctification of a part of the body though but by sprinkling with water were baptism . it is a like abuse when christ bids baptize , to sprinkle onely or pour water on the face as it would be , when he bids to eat , onely to chew in the mouth ; or when he bids to drink , to wet the lips onely . but that to sprinkle is not to baptize , is elsewhere asserted , addition to the apology , sect. . the doctor goes on in his dictating way thus . fourthly , it is known of the legal uncleannesses , contrary to those their sanctifications , that they were the cause of removing men from the congregation , they that were so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unclean , might not partake of the privileges of the temple , till they were washed and sanctifyed , and that is proportionable also to the notion here given of it , that the christian children are holy , i. e. not inherently , ( they are not capable ) but in the account of god and men capable of separation for the service of god , of being entered into the church , into covenant , which denominates men holy , ( as the gentiles as long as they were out of it were unclean and unholy , acts . ) now are they holy , i. e. it is the present practice of the church , that apostolical church of s. pauls time , to admit to baptism such infant-children of parents of whom one is christian , though not of others . answ. it is sayd without proof , that the uncleanness excluding from the tabernacle and sanctification restoring are proportionable to the notion here given of childrens being excluded or included in the church . why should cornelius be counted out of the church by god or men , when god sayth , he was a devout man , and one that feared god , with all his house , who gave much alms to the people , aend prayed to god always , acts . . it 's true , he was excluded from the familiar society of the jews according to their superstition , and so unclean , but not accounted by god to be out of the church , but in it . that christians children are denied to be capable of holiness inherently , will not be granted him , much less his paraphrase on the words [ now are they holy ] i. e. it is the present practice of the church that apostolical church of s. pauls time to admit to baptism such infant children of parents , &c. it will not stand with his own exposition , as hath been shewed , and it makes the apostle relate a matter of plain fact in obscure terms . augustin did disclaim this interpretation hierom and ambrose gave another , and so did tertullian de animâ , cap. . what he adds is frivolous . and to put all out of question , the aneient fathers which certainly knew the sacred dialect , call baptism sanctification . so cyprian epist. . eum qui natus est bapt . zandum & sanctificandum , he that is born must be baptized and sanctified ; where baptizing is sanctifying of infants . so greg. nazian . orat. . edit . bill . pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 't is better to be sanctified without sense of it , i. e. baptized in infancy when they are not sensible of it , than to depart or die without the seal of baptism . and again pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let him be sanctified from the infancy , i. e. baptized then . and many the like . for . that the ancients of the third or fourth century knew certainly the sacred dialect especially the latin doctors , me thinks the doctor should know them better than to assert it . he sure is not ignorant that in multitudes of things later writers do finde their many mistakes about the sacred dialect , and how few of them had any skil in hebrew or greek the doctor is not ignorant i presume . . in this very thing if those fathers certainly knew the sacred dialect and from their use paul must be interpreted , then the word [ sanctified ] not the word [ holy ] ( for the doctor doth not shew they used the word [ holy for [ baptized ] but the word [ sanctified ] ) must be cor. . . as much as [ baptized ] and then the sense is , the unbelieving husband is baptized by the wife , and the unbelieving wife is baptized by the husband , of the absurdity of which interpretation i need say no more . the doctor proceeds sect . . thus ▪ this passage than being thus interpreted , is a clear proof of the point in hand . and were not this the importance of it there were no privilege imaginable , no sanctity , which could be attributed to the infants of christians which would not belong to the infants of heathens also , which yet is here distinctly affirmed of the one and denied of the other by the apostle . answ. how absurd the doctors interpretation is hath been shewed before , yet were it granted him it would not be a clear proof for infant-baptism , unless [ your children ] were all one with [ your infants ] which will not be cleared till it be shewed that the corinthian christians had then no children but infants , or that he meant no other under that term then the infants . which sure is not according to the jewish pattern , in which they baptized proselytes children if females under twelve , if males under thirteen , not according to their will , but of the father or court to which they were subject , i add , if the apostle should by [ holy ] understand a privilege where upon they were baptized he should conceive otherwise than the jews did , who conceived all unclean , whom they baptized , till by baptism they cleansed them and made them holy . and for what he sayth that no privilege imaginable &c. i answer , . by denying that the apostle there attributes a privilege or sanctity belonging to the infants of christians , which would not belong to the infants of heathens . i have i conceive in the first part of this review demonstrated the contrary against mr. m mr. b. &c. . if there were a privilege attributed yet it might not be baptism . for. that belonged according to the fathers opinion and practise to unbelievers children also , if they were brought as i shew examen part . . sect . . , . there are other imagined privileges or sanctities belonging to them , as , by some real actual inward holiness , by others federal external holiness , by others holiness in hope and expectation . he goes on . and as this evidently concludes such a custom , known and acknowledged among christians at that time : so it is directly the thing that the jewish practise , in which christ founded his institution , hath laid the foundation of , in baptizing proselytes and their children , and to which the primitive church conformed . and so though that judaical practise taken alone were not deemed any demonstrative evidence , that christ thus instituted his baptism for the gentiles , yet being taken in conjunction with this testimony of the apostolical practise , and the primitive usage it brings all the weight with it , which a divine testimony imexpreted by practise can afford , which is as great as any such matter can be capable of . answ. . it is false that christ founded his institution in the jewish practise of baptizing proselytes and their children . if he had done so he would have bid the apostles , baptize disciples and their children as the jews did . there is not any thing that is brought by the doctor that proves it , yea if it were the minde of chrst to baptize disciples and their children , as the jews did proselytes , it would utterly overthrow all use of baptism of water after the first conversion of progenitors to be christs disciples , none but they and the children then born should be baptized , all disciples and their infants which descended from the first baptized should not be baptized with water being clean or holy without baptism . for they baptized because they were unclean till baptized , not because holy before . nor did they baptize any of the posterity of the first baptized though born but a few moneths after their first baptism . so that this conceit of the doctor would help much for the socinian conceit , as if water-baptism belonged onely to the age of the apostles . . it is false that there is any evidence in the apostles words cor. . . of such a custom of baptizing christians and their children as was among the jews of baptizing the preselytes and their infant's . nor do i think ever any of the fathers did interpret the apostles words as this doctor doth . tertullians words in his book de anima cap. . are not as the doctor saith an exact parallel to the apostles speech cor. . as the doctor renders and interprets it the terms candidati sanctitatis or designati sanctitatis , or candidati side● , in hieromes epist. . to paulinus do note , not that they were baptized as the doctor interprets [ holy cor . . ] bu● that they were in expectation , as they that were seekers for offices in rome , while they stood for the offices were candidati in wh●e so the infants were as it were in expectation of being believers and baptized , quod veluti ambiunt , & expectant baptismum as erasmus in his note on hierom ep. . to paulinus , or designed that is intended ●o be holy by the parents , that is to ●e bred up to profess the faith , and so to be baptized . both which senses do indeed oppose the doctors assertion and shew that they were not baptized in infancy . and for that which the doctor talks of tertullian as saying they were holy that is baptized ex s●minis praerogativa from the praerogative of their birth , it is a manifest mistake as the very reading the words shew . for. . the holiness he ascribes to believers children was not onely by praerogative of birth , but also ex institutions disciplina , by the discipline of their instruction , which is afore baptism . . the praerogative of birth the very words of tertullian shew to be no more but this , that believers children were born without those idolatrous superstitions , which were used in the birth of infidels children , which he there particularly recites . there is no one of the fathers interprets paul as the dr. ambrose and hierom interpret the words of legitimation in birth , augustin , what way soever he go , ●aith expresly , the words belong not to baptism . . i is false that the jewish practise in baptizing proselytes and their children layd the foundation of infant-baptism ; neither the scripture gives any hint thereof , no● any of the ancient christian writers , no not any of those the doctor cites ever derives it from the jewish practise : but the speeches of tertullian de bapt . cap. . of gregory nazianzen orat. . de baptismo , disswading from it except in case of necessity by reason of apparent danger of death , the very decree of the council in cyprians . epistle , the speeches of augustin , hierom against the pelagians , the words of the counterfeit authors of the book of questions and answers to the orthodox imposed on justin martyr qu. . the questions ad antiochum imposed on athanasius qu . the words of the author of the ecclesiastick hierarchy imposed on dionysius areopagita , the story of the baptism of gregory nazianzen , the intended baptism of augustin , when in da●ger of death , tom . . confess . lib. . cap. ● . and other evidences d● shew that the fathers took the baptism of infants not to have foundation in the jews practise , but in the conceit they had that baptism did regenerate , give grace and save , and that it was necessary for them to enter into the kingdom , and that they were in danger of perishing if they were not baptized , and therfore they practised baptizing of infants in that ca●e . which thing the papists avouch at this day , and in order thereto womens baptizing . the protestant reformers who composed the common prayer book , do appear to have had the like conceit , in that in the preface before publique baptism they use the old reason from john . . rom. . . for infant-baptism , affirming infants to be regenerate , and undoubtedly saved dying baptized , allowing midwives to baptize , till the words [ lawfull minister ] were added in the rubrick after the conference at hampton court , where had not king james over-ruled them the bishops had not yelded to that reformation ; yet still they kept private baptism , with that ridiculous use of propounding the questions of repentance and faith to the infant , to which the sureties must answer in the childes behalf , with profession of the childes desire to be baptized into the faith recited , though the childe were then crying when the words were spoken ; and for the sureties they had no desire to be baptized ; and the bishops and presbyters requiring it would have censured them as anabaptists had they indeed minded baptism according to christs minde : which thing was a meer mockery , as chamier calls it . yet in the rubrick it self in the common prayer book in the title of publique baptism it is confessed that the ancient custom was of baptizing onely at easter and whitsuntide , & baptizing is acknowledged to have been by dipping : sprinkling or pouring water on the face i do conjecture by reports and such writings as i have seen , was most after the conference at hampton court. dr. hammond himself in his practic catech. lib. . sect . . pag. . saith , all men were instructed anciently in the foundamentals of faith before they were permitted to be baptized . and therefore for the present i shall put by the answering of the stale and rotten allegations out of the fathers for infant-baptism brought by the doctor , because having sayd so much in my examen part . . and my apology sect . . i presume those that are not willing to be deceived will not be swayed with dr. hammonds , mr. bs. mr. ms. friends , or any other citations from them , some being of meer counterfeit authors , as justin martyr , pope hyginus , dionysius areopagita , athanasius , some suspected as origens words , some misinterpreted as irenaeus and tertullian , some the very authors shew that they maintained infant-baptism but in the case of danger of death , as tertullian and nazianzen ▪ cyprian as he avouched infant-baptism , so he did rebaptization , and that as from the apostles . augustin as he avouched infant-baptism by apostolick tradition , so he did also infant-communion . but of these things if god will more hereafter if it appear necessary . this i take to be sufficient for the present to answer dr. hammonds new device which he vainly boasts to have all the weight that a divine testimony interpreted by practise can afford , and is as great as any such matter can be capable of . finis . errata . page . line . reade my apology . p. . l. . r. areo. p. l. . r. church . p. . l. . r. in tersering . p. . l. . r. mens . p. . l r. not . p. l. . r. materially . p. . l . r. is . p . l r. did . p l . r. that . l . r. circumcision . p. . l. . ● . he . p. . l. . r. . . p. l . r. . p , . l . r. . p. . l . r. keep . p. . l. . r. superiours . l . r. ●o . p. . l . r. excommunication . p. . l , . dele will be proved . p l. dele not . l. r. paria , p. . l. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . r. mathematicis . p. . l. . r. malits . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l . r. ●esute . p. l. . r. janu . or in . p. l. . r. is , or . dele can . page . line . r. he . page . line . r. anti. page l. . r. actus . p. . l. . r. bishops . page . line . r. fearfull . page . line . r. gentes . page . line r. pe●cipitur . p . l. . r. arbitror . p. . l. , . r. renewing . p. . l. r. there . p. . l . is it . p. . l. . r. miraculous . p. . l. . r. serve . p . l. . r. . l. . r. accept . p . l r. disciple is . p. l. . dele not . p. l. . dele not . p. . l. . dele in , l. . r in locum . p. . l . dele not . p. . l. . r. i finde . p , l. . r. heating . p● ● , l , , r , , p , , l , . r , peculiar , p , , l , , r , relation , p. , l , , r , use of , p , , l , , r. them , p , , l , , r , oft , p , , r , without , p , , l , , r , the , p , , l , . r , , p , , l , , r , in , p , , l , , r , right , that the sea , cor. , , , p , , l , , r , before , p. , l , , r , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. . l. . reade them , p. . l. . reade v. . to be added after many , p , , l , ● , what dr. ward and dr. davenant have sayd for regeneration and justification of infants by baptism hath been accurately examined and ●●ervated by mr , g●taker in latin. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e collings vindic . minist . evan. pag. . it is a rotten distinction to distinguish of substantial and circumstantial acts in businesses relating to gods worship , in which we must have an eye to every tittle of institution . cawdrey sab. rediv. part . . ch . ▪ pag. . the subject or material thing is the substance of a command . cawdrey sab ▪ rediv. part. . chap. . pag. . a ●teer positive law which is special to some person or nation is of no force under the gospel , unlesse it be ratified by the gospel . baxter plain scripture proofs pag. . nature telleth us nothing of meer positives mr. collings caveat for proph. pag. . the equity of the ceremomonial law is a dark notion to me , christ is she equity of it . the apostle cals it a shadow ; the equity thē of it is the substance of a shadow , and what that is i cannot divine besides christ whose shadow it was . i alwaies understood by the ceremonial laws those laws that concerned the worship of god in that time , which were wholly ceremonial and abolished being fulfilled in christ. notes for div a -e to mr. fisher , urging cor. . . for an equity of the geremonial law to prove christmas , mr. collings caveat p. . saith . the apostle indeed cor. . . urgeth the equity of that piece of the law , thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the oxe , &c ▪ but i never took that for a piece of the ceremonial , but for a piece of the judicial law. notes for div a -e mr. fox in the second book of the acts & monuments , as the years . see sprint of conformity . mr. blake , vind. foed . cap. . that is the covenant draught , terms of the covenant we finde , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , and he that believeth not shall be damned , mark . notes for div a -e m. collings episto the reader before his vind. minst . evang. in things relating to the worship of god it is a general rule , in which our brethren and we have long since agreed , that nothing ought to be done without an express warrant in the gospel . mr. rutherford , due right of presbyteries , pag ▪ . what the apostles commanded not in gods worship , that the churches must not do . piscator observ . in matth. . . docete omnes gen●e● ( nempe praedicando evangelium , ut declarat marcus ) baptizantes eos , vult ergo ut prius constet de alicujus ●ide , quam is baptizetur . collings vin . min. evang pag . it is the first act in ministerial commission mat. . . first preach , then baptize . notes for div a -e mr. fox in the acts and monuments of the church relates how in the disputation at oxf. . with mr. latimer dr. weston objected this thing , and mr. latimer answered , he found a womans receiving the lords supper cor. . . mr. will. cook font. uncov . pag. . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes the species or kind of man distinct from other creatures , without difference of age or sex . notes for div a -e ames . bell. enerv. tom. . l. . c. . th. . protest . acts . . lex mosis dicitur jugum importabile , & chamier panstr . ca●h . tom . . l. . c. . spends a whole chapter to prove against the papists that the yoke there is the moral as well as the ceremonial law. yea , mr. b. himself direct . . for peace , pag. ● . hath these words , they were therefore said to be in bondage to the law , and the law was said to be a yoke , which neither they nor their fathers were able to bear , acts . vide pareum bell. cas●ig de justific . l. . c . is the common doctrine of protestants to interpret the yoke of the whole law , intolerable , because of the curse . vide dr. field of the church , l. c. . notes for div a -e vide selden de jure na● . &c. l. . c. . notes for div a -e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , matth. . ● . ( which is less than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) notes a little childe that could call to his fellows . notes for div a -e knolls history of the turks in solyman the magnificent . the loyal baptist, or, an apology for the baptized believers ... occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation / by thomas grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : a, : ) the loyal baptist, or, an apology for the baptized believers ... occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation / by thomas grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed for the author and are to be sold by tho. fabian ..., london : . contains two title pages, with the same imprint, but different dates, the first appearing t.p. dated , the second, . "containing i. his humble resolution to be a constant conformist to the scriptures, and especially in these four great duties, viz. . to honour all men, . to love the brotherhood, . bound and filmed at reel : a with g following: the second part of the apology for the baptized believers. this item appears at reels : a and : . reproductions of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- apologetic works. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . containing i. his humble resolution to be a constant conformist to the scriptures , and especially in these four great duties , viz. . to honour all men. . to love the brotherhood . . to fear god. . to honour the king. according to peter . . ii. his unfeigned endeavour for unity in the truth with the church of england ; wherein is shewed what 〈◊〉 a distinction in communion between the parochial 〈…〉 those of the baptized believers : wherein fourteen 〈◊〉 lately published by mr. n. t. m. a. in defence of infant-baptism , are considered , and answered . iii. his plea for church-assemblies to be permitted to the baptized believers . to which purpose is declared , iv. the nature of his call to christianity , and to the work of the ministry . occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation . by thomas grantham , a servant of christ . job . . as for me , is my complaint to 〈◊〉 ? and if it were so , why should not my spirit be troubled ? causabon's birth of heresy , c. . p. . in all ages men have never been contented with the true adoration instituted by god : but instead of external signs instituted by god , — they have forged and brought in their own inventions . london , printed for the author , and are to be sold by tho. fabian at the bible in st. paul's church-yard , . the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . being also an earnest persuasive to them and all christians , to study to be quiet , and do their own business , in these important particulars , viz. i. to honour all men. ii. to love the brotherhood . iii. to fear god. iv. to honour the king. delivered in two sermons upon pet. . . by thomas grantham , a servant of christ . my son , fear thou the lord , and the king : and meddle not with them that are given to change . prov. . . but — whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto you more than unto god , judg ye ? acts . . london , printed for the author , and are to be sold by tho. fabian at the bible in st. paul's church-yard , . to all the baptized believers in england , &c. grace and peace through christ our lord be multiplied . the great apostle st. paul , having taught the christian churches in creet their duties towards god , and towards caesar ; and leaving titus ( a messenger of the churches ) behind him there , very strictly warns him to put them in mind of their subjection to principalities , and powers , and to obey magistrates . knowing how impossible it would be to propagate the profession of christianity , if christians did not adorn their profession with a meek and harmless conversation towards all men , and especially by their obedience to those in authority . and considering the manifold temptations that attend christians in these days upon that account , i thought it my duty , as one that has obtained mercy to be faithful , to do my best in giving warning to my brethren , lest any of them should be ensnared with ill principles , or specious pretences , to speak or do any thing that may be inconsistent with gospel-rules , either in things relating more immediately to almighty god , or to the king's majesty , and those that are in authority under him . such heady persons there were in the apostle's days , and therefore the less strange if now some such be found in the best of churches , as are not afraid to speak evil of dignities : all ages and sorts of christians have been troubled with such evil-workers . and as it hath been the care of faithful men all along to protest against them , that the truth ( which such wretches only prophane by their profession of it ) might not be worse thought of because of them ; so let it be our care to bear a faithful testimony against all such in these days . and i beseech you brethren , whom god hath made as guides to the rest , that you give all diligence to teach and instruct those under your charge , in the duties which pertain to every state of life ; as well as in things which pertain to the worship of our gracious god : for these are the things which become sound doctrine , and of these our obedience to magistrates is not the least . i commit the ensuing discourses to the consideration of all christians , and to the blessing of god , and remain , your brother , and servant in the gospel , tho. grantham . the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . being also an earnest persuasive to them all , to study to be quiet , and to do their own business , in these important particulars , viz. i. to honour all men. ii. to love the brotherhood . iii. to fear god. iv. to honour the king. delivered in several discourses upon pet. . . honour all men , love the brotherhood , fear god , honour the king. this great apostle , st. peter , having preached christ in many countries , thought it meet to leave some monuments of his holy doctrine with all the churches . and having in two sacred epistles assured them of the certainty of the doctrine which he had preached , and that it was no fable or new device , but the very truth which from the beginning god made known to his prophets : he then exhorts them to stedfastness , and to hope to the end for the grace or fulness of glory , which shall be brought to all true christians at the revelation or second coming of christ . he warns them to beware of sin , chiefly that root of malice , envy and hypocrisy , ( for these are usually complicated in one ) : for as it gave being to all our misery , and has been all along the ruine of nations , churches , and communities ; so we are advertised that it will abound towards the end of the world. to avoid this damning iniquity , we are willed to consider our new birth , and as new-born babes to evidence our delight to be in the sincere milk of the word of god , not in the vanities of this world , where we are but pilgrims and strangers ; assuring us , that as christ is the sure foundation to support his church : so , ( however some builders do set him at naught ) he is the head of the corner , and will certainly in time confound the disobedient , pet. . , . howbeit , lest christians should be too impatient of the seeming delay of christ's exaltation , and of the manifold tribulations which in the mean time they must suffer ; he further warns them to be of an obedient and submissive spirit to such as are in authority , and to adorn their profession , by an honest conversation , as the best way to silence their opposers ; for so is the will of god , that with well-doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , pet. . . for tho it be very true that all christians are the lord's freemen , cor. . . yet they may not maliciously despise any man , nor dishonour any man , much less any that are in authority : christianity being indeed the greatest obligation that any man can be under , to preserve and chearfully to give to all their dues , in respect of love , honour , fear , tribute , custom , &c. god is to have the things which are god's , princes the things which are theirs , and all men ( as well those that are not christians as those that are ) must have that love and honour which is their due even from the servants of christ . thus then we approach the text ; which calls upon us to honour all men , love the brotherhood , to fear god , and to honour the king. in which directions is briefly contained the whole duty of a christian man. as , . his duty in general to mankind , honour all men. . his particular duty to the church of god , love the brotherhood . . his special duty to almighty god , fear god. . his obedience to the higher powers , honour the king. in opening these words , we shall consider the genuine import of them . . honour all men. ( . ) the word honour here , according to the greek , may be understood thus , esteem all men highly , value all men at an high price , or count them precious : and hence , tremelius reads the place omnem hominem in honore habite , have all men in high esteem or honour . and in this direction is implied that lowly and gracious spirit , that friendly and amicable temper which all christians should have and evidence towards mankind : for he that is not of a lowly spirit , cannot honour all men. ( . ) by all men , we must not here admit of the exception of any man as such ; but forasmuch as they are all the off-spring of god , it is the will of god that a due esteem be given to them all , as the most noble part of his creation under the sun ; — and but a little lower than the angels , psal . . . love the brotherhood . by love here we may safely understand , a more special kind of love than that which we owe to all men , which is well expressed , in the epist . of john , whom i love in the truth , for the truths sake which dwelleth in us . hence some of our translators render the words thus , love brotherly fellowship . and the rhemists tells us , that this speech often commendeth the vnity of all christians among themselves . . fear god. the original imports an awful dread , or such a fear as causeth trembling ; and 't is the same word used , mat. . . where it is evident such a fear is intended : but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. by the fear of god therefore in this place , we must understand the dutiful observance of his revealed will ( for so the fear of god is sometimes taken ) as ever we expect to see his face with comfort : and here the fear of man is excluded , because it brings a snare , prov. . . and is a fatal prevention to the service of god. . honour the king. ( . ) the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 does not barely signify honour , or esteem , in this place ; but a magnificent or splendid kind of honour : for so hath the lord ordained for his vicegerents , giving them the title of gods in psal . . . ( . ) it is carefully to be considered what king is immediately meant in our text : he could be no king of israel , for the kings of israel had failed long before this epistle was written ; and tho christ was born king of the jews , yet he did not enter upon his regality with respect to the government of that , nor any other nation : but plainly tells us , his kingdom is not of this world. nor did the apostle speak of any christian king , for as yet none of the princes of this world knew christ , cor. . . the king therefore here immediately intended was an heathen king , the king of the romans , who at that time ( as historians relate ) was both of very wicked life , and idolatrous in his religion , calling himself pontifex maximus , as being chief about the worship of jupiter . and yet , s. peter will have him honoured even by those who had put themselves under the yoak of christ , their heavenly king. and st. paul expresly requires the same , rom. . . wherefore from the text thus explained , we should learn these four things . i. that christians must by no means be of an haughty , scornful , nor wrathful spirit towards any man ; but of an humble and gentle behaviour , to pay the debt of honour to all , and to esteem them precious . ii. brotherly fellowship , love and concord , are to be sought for , and maintained by all christians , one with another , as such . iii. christians must have an awful fear of god before their eyes , that in matters of religion they may serve him only , and not provoke him by sinful courses , nor by the fear of man. iv. christians are bound by gospel-rules to be good subjects to princes , to honour their persons , and conscienciously to obey their authority . these propositions do harmonize with the doctrine which is according to godliness . for the first ; that christians must by no means ( as they tender their claim to the venerable title of christian , and to any part in the kingdom of christ ) be of an haughty , scornful or wrathful spirit against any man , is a doctrine needful to be proclaimed by an heavenly herald , by the voice of an archangel , even to that part of the world called christendom : for who can sufficiently bewail the almost utter absence of this gracious spirit , which abounded in the author and first professors of christianity ; and the undeniable appearance of a spirit of a quite contrary nature at this day , in all parts of the world where christ is named ? from whence come wars and fightings ? come they not hence , even from pride ? as it is written , prov. . . only by pride cometh contention . what greater injuries , indignities , and dishonours can be offered by mortals one towards another , than are amongst the several orders professing christianity ? yea , very often by men of the same order , one towards another ? so very far are the generality of christians from obeying the voice of our text. and look how far they are gone from the spirit of humility and tenderness , which leads all that have it to esteem mankind very precious ; so far they have lost the christian religion , as will appear in proving the first proposition . to which purpose , . we shall give precendency to our lord christ , who perceiving an haughty spirit peeping forth in his chosen disciples , even then whilst the very mirror of meekness and humility was before their eyes , does solemnly denounce unto them , ( and in them to all christians ) that except they were converted , and became as little children , they should by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven . luke . . and therewithal gives notice of a wo impending or coming upon the world , from that spirit of pride and ambition , in this so early an appearance of it , which yet notwithstanding seems to have over-run the church in all ages , to the scandal of religion . but would so small a fault in the chosen disciples , ( as it may seem , in respect of that which is now every where to be found ) shut heaven against them , unless those converted souls were converted in that case ? let us tremble to think of this . it 's clear from this instance , that such as are of an haughty mind , cannot honour all men. they are bladders puffed up with this wind ; break this bladder , there is meer emptiness . their goodness vanishes , when they cannot lift themselves above others . whereas the truly gracious soul studies how to serve god , and all men for his sake ; and thus to honour them , is the greatest respect that any christian can give to men. thus did our lord himself honour all : he took upon him the form of a servant . phil. . . and indeed his great design in his life and doctrine , was to restore mankind to a state of grace , and reconciliation with god , and thereby to amity and concord one with another . . next to our saviour , let us hear his beloved disciple john. he often speaks to the whole church under the title of little children ; and the metaphor is very fit for christians , as in other respects , so chiefly in this , to put them in mind , they must in no wise be of a lofty and wrathful spirit . he tells us , the love of god is not in those men , who have the pride of life in them , john . , . they cannot honour , esteem , or count all men precious , till that image of christ , which standeth in humility , be formed in them . . the apostle paul , cor. . , . does not only teach the brotherhood , that they must shew all meekness to all men , and give no offence to jew nor gentile ; but puts himself ( as becomes all true ministers of christ ) for a patern to the flock . tho ( saith he ) i be free from all men , yet i have made my self servant unto all , that i might gain the more . — i am made all things to all men , that i might by all means save some . cor. . , , , , . how precious did he count the jewish nation ! ( tho they generally hated him ) he could be content to be undone himself , rather than they should be lost . rom. . . and no less concern'd for the poor gentiles , that they also might be happy . rom. . . and hitherto did tend the scope of all his labours , to warn , teach , and to present every man perfect in christ jesus . col. . . . and forasmuch as the tongue is the ordinary witness of the spirit of pride , and that whereby all men are incident to dishonour one another , he strictly obligeth all christians to let their speech be always with grace , seasoned with salt , that they may administer grace to them that hear them . col. . . and he that will obey our text , to honour all men , must remember that he speak evil of no man , ( an impiety which god knows even reigns amongst christians . ) the tongue is an unruly member , a world of iniquity . and hence the apostle james is very bold , telling us , our religion is vain , if we bridle not that member . jam. . , , , , . how can that tongue be fit to bless god , to profess the christian religion , which is exercised in cursing , speaking evil , or wishing ill to any man ? my brethren , these things ought not to be . doth a fountain give sweet water and bitter at the same place ? this is not to be found in nature , nor to be expected in grace . christians must be known to all men by their fruits of righteousness , meekness , goodness , and faith ; otherwise men shall never be moved to glorify god in their behalf . . that christian who will honour all men , must love all men ; without this , he cannot esteem them , nor count them precious . whom we love not , we have no delight to honour . it is in a manner peculiar to the christian doctrine , that men should love their enemies , pray for them that persecute them and despitefully use them . let us therefore pay this debt , to honour all men in love. he that will do this , must bear mankind upon his heart in prayer and supplication . tim. . . this is a lesson for christians , as such , they must love their neighbours as themselves , and all men are their neighbours . the royal law obliges them to it ; jam. . . if ye fulfill the royal law according to the scriptures , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self , ye do well ; but if ye have respect to persons , ( that is , love one , and hate another ) ye commit sin , and are convinced of the law as transgressors . were christians filled more with this fruit of the spirit , we should see an end of these animosities , opprobrious and abusive epithets , or brands of reproach and infamy , which are daily cast upon men , and too frequently found among christian men. it is to be lamented , that men who are precious in the esteem of god , should not be esteemed so by one another . but honour all men , says our text ; and the arguments to enforce the duty are many , of which , some we will urge in this place , and the first shall be this : first ; they are men as well as our selves , our equals by creation , the workmanship of the hands of the same god ; and therefore are we bound to honour all men , as men ; nor can we slight , despise , or dishonour them , but we dishonour our selves : for they are flesh of our flesh , and god hath made of one blood all nations of men , to dwell upon the face of the earth ; and he is the god of the spirits of all flesh . and thus we have all one father ; as one god hath created us , we are all his off-spring : not as some prophanely have said , that man is no more god's off-spring than an hog ; for he did not consult the creation of any thing , as he did the creation of man , gen. . nor did he breath into the nostrils of hogs , the same spirit of life and wisdom which he breathed into man. david admires the goodness of god in the degnified state of man , psal . . , . and let us beware of base thoughts concerning man , lest we value him no more than the beasts of the field , and so dishonour him , whom god created in great honour , and to this day ( notwithstanding his fall ) hath set him over the works of his hands . all men are our brethren , let us honour them as such ; for what brotherhood soever we attain , yet our humane fraternity is antecedent , and not made void by any post-fraternity , which is good , but rather more indeared . this was seen in st. paul , the nearer his relation was to god upon the account of christianity , the more was his love , and the greater his sorrow for his brethren according to the flesh , rom. . . let not christians think , that their relation , nor obligation of nature to mankind , is destroyed or made less , by their being christians ; such a vain conceit will alienate us from our own flesh , and make us quite pervert the text , which puts us in mind that our religion does strongly engage us to honour them all . it was a vertue in the philosopher , who would not be accounted of this or that nation , tribe , or city , but entitled himself a citizen of the whole world ; meaning , he had an equal respect for mankind ; and if his relation might be an honour , he would be related to them all , that he might honour them all . secondly ; christains must honour all men , because god himself hath honoured them all , setting his love upon them , and manifesting it to them , and that divers ways : as , . in the common acts of his providence , of which we have an excellent account in the th psalm , to which i refer you . it is he that giveth them fruitful seasons , filling their hearts with joy and gladness ; he gives them life and breath , and all things . hence they ( even all nations ) are called his people , and the sheep of his pasture , psal . . , . and upon this very ground are required to pay their debt of thankfulness unto him . . god has greatly honoured mankind in the gracious act of redemption ; i say , in this he has greatly esteemed all men , and counted them very precious . that god hath done this for all men , nothing can be more plain than these testimonies : there is one god , and one mediator between god and man , who gave himself a ransom for all . tim. . . we see jesus made a little lower than the angels , for the suffering of death . — that he by the grace of god should taste death for every man. heb. . . for all have sinned , and come short of the glory of god , being justified freely by his grace , through the redemption which is in christ jesus . rom. . , . he is a propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but also for the sins of the whole world. surely he that against the light of these plain testimonies , can or will think that god neglected the greatest part , or any part of mankind , in the most important business of redemption , must needs have a very low esteem and dishonourable thoughts of that part of mankind , cannot value them much above the fallen angels or devils , for whom no ransom was given ; and consequently they cannot honour all men. the devils are but sinners , shut up to the judgment of eternal fire , without means of recovery ; and these men , that narrow up the redemption of man to the elect only , shut up the remainder of men in that condemnation which is inevitable . and what honour can belong to such ? how should we count them precious , if indeed god hated them from all eternity ? it is not saying , that we know them not by name , and therefore ought to honour all men , that will salve the business : for the truth is , if we heartily honour all men , we must be sure that god would have us do so ; and of this we cannot be sure , if we think god made them only to damn them : for if the esteem or honour which we give to all men , proceed not from sincere love to them , and desire of their happiness , it is but hypocrisy , no true honour ; for the honour which we owe to all men , is not founded upon any thing wherein they are dignified above us , but upon those blessings or favours from god , which are common to us all , and wherein he has made no difference between one and another . and therefore if we truly esteem , love , and wish all men well in the case of their salvation , me must believe that god does so too , or else we cannot do it heartily . augustine's speech here is worthy of remembrance ; o vehement love ! that god for man's cause can vouchsafe to become man ! who can hate man , whose nature and likeness he beholds in the humanity of god ? surely , if god has not loved all men in christ , we have no cause to count them precious , because we see them not favoured in the humanity of god. . that our god counts all men precious , may be seen in the order given , that the word of peace or reconciliation may be preached to all men , or , to every creature ; to be made known to all nations for the obedience of faith. mat. . . rom. . . surely this message , with the messenger and messengers that brought it to all men , does stupendously evidence , how precious god accounts all men. he may justly demand , what could have been done to evidence my love to man , and the precious esteem i have of him , which i have not done . has he not sent his apostles , whose words have gone to the uttermost parts of the earth ? rom. . yea , he hath sent his son , whom he hath made heir of all things ; yea , he hath sent thus to those that would not accept these tokens of love , estimation , or honour . john . . mat. . . surely it is an act of honour towards the party visited , when the king comes to visit the beggar , yea , the traytor . whence is this to me , said elizabeth , that the mother of my lord should come to me ? and whence is this to man , or what honour hath god conferred upon man , that our lord himself should come to man , to redeem him by the death of the cross , and to make all men see what is the fellowship of this mysterious piece of godliness , ( which is god manifest in the flesh , &c. ) by the light of the gospel ? thirdly ; christians must honour all men , because this is one effectual way to recommend the way of christianity , or the truth which we profess , to the acceptance of all men. and hitherto may be referred these and the like rules ; walk in wisdom towards them that are without . if you salute your brethren only , what do you more than others ? the servant of the lord must not strive , but be gentle towards all men. render to no man evil for evil , but overcome evil with good. shewing all meekness to all men. giving a reason of the hope that is in you , with meekness and fear . that christian that shall walk towards all men according to these rules , shall certainly honour all men , and greatly recommend the truth to them all ; for thus shall he himself become an epistle of christ , read and known of all men. . cor. . . i shall conclude this first doctrine with a solemn protestation against all such as would set up their religion by violence , blood , and treachery , by what name soever distinguished ; for if this be their scope , they have not known christ , nor the divine power of christianity . cain leads the van to this unreasonable troop , who never did nor can honour all men , till they be delivered from this principle : no , they desire to kill , that they only might be honoured . by this unchristian sort of christians , what unspeakable butcheries have been committed ! hundreds of thousands in a neighbouring nation , in this age , cruelly destroyed . what hangings , burnings , and tormentings all europe over ! and this pretendedly to advance holy church ! as if our saviour's house must be built with blood , when yet he plainly tells us , he came not to kill men , but to save them , and sharply rebukes his disciples , when such a spirit appeared in them . and have we not seen a refined generation , ( as they would be thought ) peeping forth , with the name of blood , or the smiting principle , written on their forehead , with direction to their proselites to pray , that god would destroy all oppressior and oppressors from off the face of the earth ? lord ! what is this ? the greatest part of mankind peradventure are oppressors in one thing or other ; and must a christian pray for their destruction , or for their conversion ? sure the latter is the duty of all christians . tim. . , . they cannot desire such a woful day , but that mercy may be extended , knowing that themselves were sometimes foolish , disobedient , living in malice , hateful , and hating one another . tit. . but alas ! do not these men pray for their own destruction ? who sees not that such a principle is pregnant with oppression ? o let all christians beware of it . and let us pray for them that hate us , persecute us , and speak all manner of evil against us falsly , for his names sake , who hath called us not only to believe , but also to suffer for his sake . thus leaving all men of bloody , violent , and treacherous principles , to consider what spirit they are of ; how unlike our lord christ ; how different from the primitive christians ; how contrary to humanity it self , which teaches all to do to others ( not as they do ) but as we would they should do to us : we shall proceed to the next point of doctrine , grounded upon the second direction in the text , love the brotherhood . doct. ii. brotherly fellowship , love and vnity is carefully to be endeavoured and maintained by all christians . this brotherhood being not natural , but spiritual and mystical , admits of a twofold consideration : . in the largest sence the word ( and use of it in scripture ) will bear . . in a more strict and special sence . in the first , we must comprehend all that own the holy scriptures for the rule of faith , believing in the only true god , the father , son , and holy-ghost , ( for these three are one ) ; that christ died for our sins , and rose again for our justification ; that live soberly , according to the general rules of christianity , tho they may be diversly persuaded in the methods of christian worship . or i could be content , ( if the state of christianity would bear it in these days ) to express my self in this case in the words of st. paul , cor. . . all that in every place call upon the name of our lord jesus christ ; among whom he found diversities of opinions , as well as disorders in practice of ordinances . not that he allows either , but labours to reform both , yet so as he would preserve amity among them as they were brethren , tho some of them were carnal , cor. . others allowing themselves a very dangerous liberty in religious matters , even to eat things sacrificed to idols ; some doubting of the resurrection , others very loose in their devotion at the lord's table ; they were some tumultuous , others otherwise vicious , cor. . now whether the apostle , in his exhortations to unity , intends , that notwithstanding these errors they should hold ample communion with the erroneous ; or whether , upon adhering to reproof by him given , and their obeying the epistles which he sent to them , he obliges them to maintain and uphold their communion , is the business to be considered . the first it is not like to be , for then few errors , either in doctrine or life , could break this brotherly fellowship among christians . and then to what purpose are these rules given ? mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . rom. . . withdraw your selves from every brother which walks disorderly , &c. thess . . . surely all that can be required , as to unity with these christians , is a brotherly compassion , to encourage what we can the truth they hold , or the good they do ; to hold with them in the common cause of christianity , against the common enemy of it . i conceive the latter to be the only safe way , viz. that notwithstanding their great carnality , weakness of judgment , or frowardness in their erroneous opinions , &c. if now they would receive the counsel of the lord's messenger , or which the lord by his messenger had sent unto them , that then the brotherhood once found among them should still continue , tho they had too evidently forfeited their privileges . thus to take the apostle's meaning , is to make him harmonize with himself . thess . . . if any man obey not our word by this epistle , note that man , and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed ; yet count him not an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . but to take the apostle in the first sence , would make him irreconcileable to or with himself . so then , paul did not advise the faithful at corinth , to hold ample communion with those of ill life , and erroneous principles in the necessary parts of religion , such as the resurrection , and separation from idolatry doubtless are ; for he that denies the first , denies christ to be risen , makes the apostles false witnesses , and the faith of christians vain . cor. . , , . and the second makes men uncapable to serve god : ye cannot drink the cup of the lord , and the cup of idols ( or devils . ) cor. . . let us then consider the second , or more strict sence of the word , brotherhood , in our text. and here we must take it , as it pertains to truly constituted and well-governed societies of christians : for undoubtedly god intended to have the christian religion stated and maintained in all nations , according to the pristine simplicity of the gospel , without the mixtures of legal ceremonies , or humane innovations : for when jesus gave commission to his apostles , to teach all nations , baptizing them ; and then , to teach them to observe all things whatsoever he commanded them . mat. . , . and gave being to this order , to continue to the end of the world , it must needs be highly rational on the part of all such , as do piously stand to this form of doctrine , as explicated and delivered to the churches , rom. . . heb. . , . and consequently it must needs be very pleasing to god , and commendable in the church , that his institutes be kept with the greatest exactness , as they were delivered at first , cor. . . for if once variations in either the doctrinal or practical parts of the christian religion be admitted , there can be no certain duration of any truth . a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump , gal. . . and this the apostle speaks too , with relation to the imposition of some legal rites , which once had a divine original and use in the church of god , and yet now could not consist with obedience to the truth . gal. . . ye did run well , who did hinder you , that you should not obey the truth ? hence saint paul would not give place to st. peter himself , ( when too much symbolizing with legal ceremonies , gal. . ) that so the truth of the gospel might continue in the churches of galatia ; plainly shewing , that as light and darkness cannot dwell together , so the gospel is exclusive of legal ceremonies and humane innovations . and seeing all must grant , there has been a very great departure from the truth of the gospel , both in doctrine and practice , there cannot be a better method ( i suppose ) thought on , to amend what is amiss in the christian world , ( and thereby to restore true brotherly fellowship ) than that used by our lord , mat. . . to reform a corruption among the jews , and such an error too as had a shew of scripture-authority for it , ( i mean the case of divorce ) yet our saviour suppresseth that custom , by referring to the primitive institution of marriage ; from the beginning it was not so . and upon this text , how well does our brethren ( i mean the sober and pious in the church of england ) defend themselves against popish innovations , both in opinion and practice ? one of them speaks thus : as touching each of these errors , we can say with our saviour , in this present correption of the pharisees , that from the beginning it was not so ; and we care not whence they come , unless they come from the beginning . this hath ever been ( saith he ) the rule , the warrantable rule to reform a church . when esdras was intent on building the temple , he sent not to ephesus , much less to rome ; he did not enquire into the rituals of numa pompilius ; but had recourse for a temple , to that of solomon ; and for a rite , to that of moses . indeed for things meerly indifferent , ( as he observes ) there must be preserved a liberty in all churches to consult and do for the best . i dare not say as he , to make constitutions ; ( for that 's a great word ) but to manage her affairs with decency , order , and charity . but to come more directly to our doctrine , which is , brotherly fellowship ; love and vnity is carefully to be endeavoured and maintained by all christians . certain it is that our love , as christians , may go much further than our actual communion in all things christian , may do ; and yet this love it self is a kind of fellowship . the angels have fellowship with us , and acknowledg themselves our fellow servants , rev. . . and yet they do not partake with us in all our acts of religion , but only by approbation and corroboration , in things which are well done . now the best or most orderly sort of christians cannot conceive a greater disproportion between their churches , and the churches of the most erring ( if but well-meaning ) societies that conscientiously profess love and obedience to christ : and even hence , we are obliged to hold as much brotherly fellowship with them , as we can , especially that of love and brotherly compassion . for when we consider , that even some of all sorts of christians will rather dye , than basely deny their lord and master , we cannot but have fellowship with such in our spirits , whilst it is the same ( and not a feigned christ ) to whom they shew their utmost testimony of love. and this consideration alone , may suffice to take away that imbitteredness , which is too often found among christians dissenting one from another : let their appellations be what they will , so that they believe in the true christ , and live well , being also faithful to what they know . and tho they be never so angry with me for opposing them in their traditions , or erring notions otherwise , yet i must have a brotherly tenderness towards them all for the truths sake which dwelleth in them . but now , for ample or full communion , i see not how that can be attained and maintained , but where there is antecedent to it , an union both in doctrine and practice , in things necessary to the true constitution and government of the church of christ . and seeing also our differences about these things are not small , or trivial ; it cannot ( i think ) be better ordered , than that a friendly distinction , and brotherly forbearance be permitted as to ample communion ; for that men cannot comfortably nor peaceably join together till they be agreed in these things . i see not that the difference betwixt paul and barnabas was so great ( as to the thing about which they differed ) as the things about which christians differ in these days ; and yet its certain their contention being great ( for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies provoking , gauling , and imbittered speeches , and minds , say the learned ) it is certain they could not transact their affairs in the gospel together , but apart . and this was written perhaps to shew , that a competent unity in judgment must precede our actual communion , and till that be attained among us , there is a necessity ( in regard , partly of human frailty , and partly in regard of some precious truths ) to forbear one another , without destroying the truth to which we have attained respectively . and this is the greatest love we can extend to one another , under these difficult circumstances . . to pity and heartily to pray one for another ; for the servant of the lord must not strive but be gentle towards all men , in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves . . there must be all patience exercised , and compassion shewed to the ignorant , and those that are out of the way , especially where the scruple is tender and conscientious . and in the mean time , the faithful minister of god must hold fast the form of sound words , he must teach the same doctrine which was committed to his trust by the apostles . he must warn others that they teach no other doctrine . he must not give place to jewish , or other fables . and the church must so walk in christ , as they first received him , rooted in the foundation-principles , established and built up in him : not carried about with every wind of doctrine , but speaking the truth in love , must endeavour to grow up into christ in all things . in a word , it is the duty of this brotherhood to stick close to the whole councel of god , and not to partake with other mens sins , or errors in life or religion ; which cannot be done , where contrarieties in doctrine and practice about things necessary to the true state and government of the church of christ , are allowed in the same fellowship or community . love the brotherhood . this fraternity are in a special manner to love one another . . because god himself hath loved them with a special kind of love : and if god so loved us , we ought also to love one another , john . it is happy when the love of christians is founded upon this bottom , viz. the manifestation of god's love to them , and not upon any thing of human excellency ; for this is to have mens persons in admiration , and not to admire this , behold what manner of love the father hath bestowed upon us ! . because this is the sweetest manifestation , that we are the children of god ; for in this is manifest the children of god , john . . namely , that they love their brethren : and every one that loveth , is born of god. and our saviour makes it the true character of christianity : by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another , joh. . . . because this is the uniting grace among christians , this makes their society sweet , their fellowship desirable , it s a fellowship of love , phil. . . this makes them like david and jonathan , they are bound in one girdle , and their love was wonderful . . because this makes the sufferings of christians easy ; when those that suffer love them , in defence of whose faith they do suffer ; and see themselves beloved of their brethren , even then when all men seem to hate them . this made paul himself rejoice in his sufferings , phil. . , . i rejoiced in the lord greatly , that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again , — ye have well done that ye have communicated with me in my affliction . let us touch the things briefly , which may be sure evidences of this brotherly love. . if then we love the brotherhood , we are much concern'd about them in our thoughts . for what is the object of a man's love , is the subject of his meditation . all true lovers know this by experience ; and let the love of the brotherhood exceed our love in other cases . an instance of this love we have in st. paul , col. . , . for i would that ye knew what great conflict i have for you , and for them of laodicea , and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh : that their hearts might be comforted , being knit together in love , &c. . if we love our brethren , we bear them much upon our heart in our prayers ; we cannot forget them if we rightly love them . paul made mention of him in every prayer of his whom he dearly loved , tim. . . let all christian brethren do so too , for we cannot do less for any of them , or for many of them we can do no more . . if we love the brotherhood , we will esteem them highly , according to the vertues which we see in them , john v. , , . and whom we love we will commend , and advance as much as we can , because it 's the native property of love to do so ; as appears in the interchanges of love in the song of solomon , between christ and his church : and is the way too , to encrease love , as all experience shews . . if we love our brethren , we will to our best defend their reputation against those that injure them . thus paul vindicated not himself only , but those faithful ministers which were with him , when some reported of them that they walked after the flesh , and said , let us do evil that good may come ; whose damnation , for such vile reproaches against the servants of christ , he avers to be just . . if we love the brotherhood , we will to our power relieve their necessities . for he that hath this worlds good , and sees his brother want , and shutteth up the bowels of his compassion , how dwells the love of god in him ? and saith another apostle , if a brother or sister be destitute of daily food , and ye say , be ye filled , and give them not those things that are necessary , what doth it profit ? wherefore let love be without dissimulation . let it be fervent . for to this end were our souls purified in obeying the truth through the spirit , even unto unfeigned love of the brethren , pet. . . . the last evidence . if we love the brotherhood , we will seek and preserve as much as we can , the peace of the whole , and the prosperity of every part . pray for the peace of jerusalem ( saith david ) they shall prosper that love thee ; for my brethren and companions sake i will now say , peace be within thy walls , and prosperity within thy palaces . how greatly does the true son of david , our lord jesus , pray for this blessing upon the whole church , that they all may be one , as he and his father are one ? and what christian will not tremble to think of doing any thing against the tenour of his blessed prayer ? i will conclude this point with a solemn protestation against those evils which chiefly hinder the love of the brotherhood ; and the first is pride . . only through pride cometh contention ( saith the spirit ) ; when men are admirers of themselves , proud , boasters ; they soon become despisers of those that are good , and enemies to the love of the brotherhood . diotrephes being got to this point , presently makes havock of the church , by casting the brethren out of the church that shewed their brotherly love to the travelling ministers . and why ? because he loved to have the preheminence , insomuch as he spared not to undervalue the apostle himself . aproud professor cannot love the brotherhood . . as all proud men are enemies to brotherly love ; so most of all such as take themselves to be infallible about things most disputable , being vainly confident that god is opposed when their impositions are not obeyed . these men commonly drive furiously , rend and tear , if their mandates meet with dislike or non-reception . these men will ever stand strenuously upon niceties , and make things which are doubtful , and meerly indifferent , to become necessary . . those who make gain their godliness , are great enemies to brotherly love , these are called greedy dogs by the prophet , greedy wolves by the apostle ; these seek their own , not the things of christ . they are enemies to him ; their god is their belly , they mind earthly things ; they change with every wind for preferment . they are lovers of their own selves . they teach things which they ought not , for filthy lucres sake . they love not the brotherhood , but their money . thus much to the second point . we come now to the third part of our text. fear god. hence the doctrine has been propounded thus . doct. iii. christians must have an awful fear of god before their eyes , that in matters of religion they may serve him only , and not provoke him by sinful courses , nor by the fear of man. to come rightly to the performance of this duty , we must endeavour to have a right knowledg or belief of this god whom we are to fear , for this our saviour makes to be the weighty part of our religion , faith , and the fear of god. now in this faith , which anteceeds the fear , worship , and service of god , we must consider the essence and attributes of god. in the first , he is infinitely beyond the reach of our knowledg , or finding out unto perfection . job . . it is but a small portion that we know ( or can know ) of him in this world. faith therefore satisfies it self , with knowing that god is : or , that there is one god. that he is a spirit eternal , pure , omnipotent , immutable , invisible , merciful , faithful , holy , just and good ; and that he is infinitely and perfectly so , and whatsoever else may be said to represent him great and glorious ; great in his sovereignty and dominion , glorious in his doings towards the children of men. in a word , faith apprehends or believes this god to be , whatsoever his word declares him to be , which together with his works of creation and providence are the intelligencers to mortals , his good spirit also helping and illuminating all that heartily seek after him . howbeit this faith is not of the same magnitude in all that have it , but 't is of the same nature , — to all that have obtained like precious faith with us , through the righteousness of god , and our saviour jesus christ , pet. . . to fear god , is indeed a duty incumbent upon all men , and not upon christians only . and for the better performance of this great duty , it is good to know the cause , why mankind of all other creatures is bound to fear god ; i say , mankind only , of all sublunary creatures : for from other creatures god expects not this , nor do they pay it to him , not having capacity , and so no necessity on them to do it . but they are subjugated to the fear of man , who is placed over them as supream , psal . . , . gen. . . indeed i do not find that this fear and dread of man , was upon the creatures below him , till after the earth was accursed . it is true a dominion was given man over them in his innocent estate , gen. . . but that he should have ruled them with rigour , as now , i find not , but do conceive that the terrour of man to the brute creatures , and their disobedience to him , are effects of the curse ; and its certain the curse was the effect of sin. but in these things let us not be too curious . now whether in case man had not sinned , he should have been obliged to fear god as now , or whether he should have properly feared god at all , may be enquired here ? to which it may be answered , that seeing god had endued man with excellent reason and judgment , and yet put him in a mutable state , and gave him notice that his state was such , when he gave him a law with a penalty upon the breach of it . in the breach of which he should surely dye , gen. . . it follows that man was even then bound to fear , and to stand in awe of his majesty from the beginning before sin was upon him . so that sin is not the original cause of the fear of god , but his bounty towards man , and absolute sovereignty over him , are the grounds of it . and hence we may learn , how just , how necessary it is for us who are of the fall'n race of adam , not only for that we are under these original obligations , and for that the covenant which we are under as christians , tho a covenant of grace , yet is truly conditional ( whatever some murmur to the contrary ) to fear the god of heaven , and to stand in awe of his majesty . behold therefore the goodness and severity of god! on them that fell , severity ; but towards thee goodness , if thou continue in his goodness : otherwise thou also shall be cut off . rom. . . heb. . . but it is furthermore our duty , for that we are more subject to err than adam was , for all grant he had free-will , and sufficiency of ability to stand had he used it . but tho some of us do hold we have a liberty of will , yet we must all confess our power to be very small , without intervening grace , either to resist temptations , or to do acts of righteousness . not that we are sufficient to think any thing as of our selves , but our sufficiency is of god , cor. . . there is a distinction of fear towards god much spoken of , to wit , a servile fear , and a filial fear . the first they would exclude from a christian . but if by servile fear be intended no more than to fear god , as a good servant is to fear his master , i can see no reason to exclude it : if i be a master , where is my fear ? saith the lord. mal. . . it seems god's servants must fear him . but perhaps the meaning of the distinction is this : by filial fear is meant an holy dread , lest we do any thing that is evil , or leave undone the thing that is good ; and by servile fear , is meant a fear of punishment only . if this be it , i shall say little to it , believing , whoever makes this distinction , would have all men , and specially christians , to fear god so as to depart from all evil , and to do good , lest judgment be the portion of their cup from the lord. fear god ; that is , stand in awe of his majesty , worship and serve him , and him only . sam. . . only fear the lord , and serve him with all your heart . psal . . . he is thy lord , and worship thou him . thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . mat. . . this is god's right , we must only pay it to him . when peter was put upon this strait , whether to please or fear men , when his service to god was the matter in question , his speech was very frank and resolute , acts . . whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto men more than unto god , judg ye . this then must ever become good christians in matters of religion , to stick close to that which is right in the sight of god , however it may be countermanded by man. the condescensions of holy paul were so wisely attempered , as even then when he was made all things to all men , and paying his debt of love to the wise and unwise , so as to be without law to them that were without law , and under the law to them that were under the law ; yet he was not without law to god , but under the law to christ ; he would not sin to please any , nor do evil that good might come : for the fear of the lord is clean , the beginning of wisdom , and that which must keep us company all our days ; else we lie open to the fiery darts of satan , which will both hit and hurt , where the fear of the lord is absent . therefore blessed is the man that feareth always . this is that grace which held joseph back from uncleanness , nehemiah from self-endedness in god's service , when others made it burthensom : this did not i , saith he , because of the fear of the lord. work out your own salvation with fear and trembling , saith the apostle . i trembled in my self , that i might rest in the day of trouble , saith the prophet . i exceedingly fear and quake , said moses . i am so troubled i cannot speak , said david . and shall we not exceedingly fear , and stand in awe of that majesty , which made these pillars in the church to tremble ? beware of a stupid and careless spirit , for that will soon prove a revolting spirit . jer. . , . david makes that awful fear of god an express duty to all ; psal . . . thou , even thou art to be feared ; and who may stand in thy presence , when once thou art angry ? without a godly fear no service to god is acceptable . heb. . and he is therefore greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints . thus much in general . we shall now endeavour to describe the man that walks in the fear of god , in a few particulars . and , . he that truly fears god , worships and serves him , must be delivered from the fear of man. when david is considering how to fear or serve god aright , psal . . . he tells us , he will walk at liberty ; he will have his heart free from that which hinders due obedience to god. and as to matters of religion , christians are christ's freemen . and therefore our saviour ( who was the most faithful to caesar that ever man was ) in this case absolutely prohibits the fear of man ; fear not him that can kill the body . and it is certain , the fear of man brings a snare , as appears in the case of the pharisees : they could not confess christ , tho they believed in him , for they feared to be put out of their synagogues ; they loved the praise of men more than the praise of god. he that thus fears man , cannot fear god. let us hear the apostle paul , he is plain ; do i now persuade men , or god ? ( that is , do i preach the doctrine of god or man ? ) if i yet pleased men , i should not be the servant of christ . we see here the difference between a faithful christian and minister of christ , and those that serve the times : the latter always preach something that is of man , lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of christ ; the former fears neither men nor angels , so as to give consent to another gospel , or any thing which perverts the gospel of christ . gal. . to . . he that truly fears god , will give to god the things which are god's . this rule , of all others , should be observed by christians , because it proceeds from christ himself , upon such a special occasion , mat. . . as wherein the right of kings , and god's right over men are enquired into , and the case determined by the lord christ , to the silencing his captious adversaries . caesar's right must be given , and god's right must not be with-held . earthly things , or our obedience in civil cases , is here stated upon caesar ; there is therefore a necessity , that obedience in religious cases be due to god , or else he has nothing peculiar in or over us . sith therefore god almighty has reserved all religious obedience to himself , and that we must every man give an account of himself unto god , cor. . let all that fear god , give to him in religious performances , the things which have his image and superscription upon them , lest he reject both the offering , and the offerer , with , who hath required this at your hands ? did not god provide by his express law , that his sacrifices should not be changed at man's will , a good for a bad , nor a bad for a good ? lev. . . does not isaiah cry out against them that presumed to change god's ordinances , as breakers of the everlasting covenant ? isa . . . it fared very ill with nadab and abihu , for offering that fire which god commanded not . levit. . , &c. the corinthians were smote with sickness and death , for prophaning the lord's table with their own supper , cor. . , . david himself was afraid of god , when he altered the manner of carrying the ark of god , chron. . and this instance made him afterwards give to god the things that were god's , namely , to serve him in due order , chron. . let the use of all be , to provoke us to serve god with godly fear , to stand in awe of his word , to serve him with all possible exactness , according to the very rules therein contained , that we may have the commendation of good and faithful servants , as it was in the case of noah , gen. . . thus did noah , according to all that god commanded him , so did he . . he that truly fears god , will ever preserve a good conscience towards god. but this can never be , where the inner man is not pure , and the heart delighted with the service of god. of some we read , that they profess high , but their minds and consciences are defiled , tit. . . others that so walked before the lord , as to gain this reputation , that they did that which was right in the sight of the lord , but not with a perfect heart . chr. . . now god is he that perfectly knows the heart , and searches the heart , and takes pleasure in uprightness ; and he knows , and will make all men know , that as the wilful nectlect of duties , i mean religious duties , are an evidence of an evil conscience ; so the keeping back part , or serving god deceitfully , or serving god under a colour , without conscience of the service , are the same , and shall , with the persons so worshipping him , be rejected , as those that do not fear god. for it shall come to pass in the day of the lord's sacrifice , that he will punish them that swear by the lord , and that swear by malcham ; and them that are turned back from the lord , and them that have not sought the lord , nor enquired after him . zeph. . , . . he that feareth god , will not resist the power of princes ; yet will he do what god commands , tho all the princes in the world forbid him ; nor will he do what god forbids , tho all the princes in the world should command it . what our christian obligations to princes are , i hope to shew , in handling the next direction in our text. we are here only to shew , that no worldly power can make void what god commands , nor make that lawful which god's word forbids . the god of heaven forbids worshipping or bowing down to images or idols , exod. . nebuchadnezzar commands the contrary , dan. . , . under pain of suffering the fiery furnace . now this was a mighty prince , to whom god had given a kingdom , and great glory ; yet shadrach and his companions would not do his command , but told him plainly , they would not serve his gods , nor worship the golden image which he had set up . dan. . . it has been the unhappiness of earthly gods , to countermand the commands of the god of heaven , without which there would have been but few martyrs : but the greatness of their multitude shews the certainty of this truth , that god's will must be obeyed , what troubles soever attend us from the princes of this world for so doing . indeed i find this doctrine owned by most . for the papists themselves , upon acts . . say thus : if any magistrate command against god , that is to say , forbid catholick christian men to preach , or serve god , this same must be their answer , ( meaning that answer which peter gave , &c. ) tho they be whipped or killed for their labour . and dr. fulk allows the note , but yet would not have the papists to have any benefit by it , ( so partial are men , when uppermost . ) we see then , by consent of christians generally , the voice of god must be obeyed in things religious , tho the princes of the earth say nay . and to this agrees the holy psalmist , psal . . . princes sate and spake against me ; that is , they sat on the throne , and dereed things against him : but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes . he would not depart from the ways of god , tho he was persecuted . psal . . . princes perfecuted me without a cause , but my heart standeth in awe of thy word . but here it may be fit to obviate an objection . it will be said , tho it is true , that all that fear god , are bound thus to obey god , and not man , in matters of religion , and to suffer patiently , rather than to sin ; yet whether in things indifferent , which are neither commanded nor forbidden ; if princes here make ufe of their authority , christians are not bound to obey actively ? as for example , about the place of worship , &c. to this it may be answered ; seeing god has forbidden no place , if that were all the business , he were a mad man that would not actually obey ; and consequently he is bound to obey authority in every case that is like it ; as thus : it is a duty for a nation , in a time of common calamity , to humble themselves by fasting and prayer ; and doubtless 't is best this be done at the same time , and none so fit to order this as the magistrate : if therefore authority command the tenth , twentieth , or thirtieth day of such a month , for such a service , i doubt not but he should be guilty of sin , that should in this refuse such time , meerly because it is appointed by the magistrate's authority . and if there be an hundred cases of this kind , the same answer must be given in them all , for ought i see ; or else under pretence of fearing god , we shall dishonour the king , which is a sin of an high nature . tho christians be subjects to princes , yet princes are subjects to god , and in the sphere where god has set them , can do nothing more pleasing to him , than to promote the interest of religion , by discountenancing prophaneness and irreligion , and by giving encouragement to the lovers of it . but then as they are subjects to christ , they are fellow-servants with their subjects , ( yea , the angels think not themselves too high to be called so , rev. . . ) and therefore must with their subjects be obedient to one lawgiver , even jesus , and not assume power to make laws for the consciences of men in religion , nor to force them to go beyond their knowledg and faith in things of that kind , seeing what is not of faith is sin , and we must every one give an account of himself unto god. . the last particular i shall insist upon , as necessary to the true fear of god , is to avoid covetousness and worldly-mindedness . covetousness is said to be idolatry . and he that is a covetous person , makes little further use of religion , than to be a cloak for his iniquity ; he fears not god , he serves not the lord christ , but his own belly ; for this he preaches , for this he prays , and without this he will do neither . these are the men that make merchandize of the word of god , supposing ( as the apostle saith ) that gain is godliness . i meet with a notable passage in our english chronicles ; in the sixth century , 't is said , the clergy of britain set all their mind to serve god , and not the world , the heart , and not the belly : wherefore then were they had in great reverence and honour . but as they encreased in earthly treasure , so they decreased in heavenly treasure . fab. chron. part . cap. . let all that fear god , beware of this evil disease , especially such as are ministers of christ . no man can serve two masters ; ye cannot serve god and mammon , saith our saviour , mat. . . thus much of the fear of god ; let us now consider the debt which we owe to our king. honour the king. altho by the order of our text , we are to speak of this weighty subject in the last place , yet it is not the least part of our duty : for as the ancient christians were wont to speak , so it remains an eternal truth , that as god is above the emperor , so none other is above the emperor but god. and consequently our duty , next to almighty god , is to our prince ; as we see here in our text , the honour of the king is provided for , next to the fear of god. we have already shewed , in the opening of the words , that the king here meant , or immediately spoken of , was an heathen king , and a great idolater in his religion ; and yet the holy-ghost does here oblige all christians , even of the highest rank , to honour such kings , peter himself , and consequently all his successors not excepted ; for indeed he had learned this obedience of one higher than himself , even jesus christ , and therefore must needs recommend the same to all christians . and hence the doctrine is , doct. iv. all christians are bound by gospel-rules to be good subjects to princes , to honour their persons , and conscienciously to obey . their authority . . to evince this great truth , it may be needful to shew , that kingly power or government is of god. not in the sence ( prophanely objected by some writers ) wherein plagues , diseases , and punishments are of god ; for the apostle paul doth expresly contradict such an ungodly exposition , rom. . , &c. wherein he avers , even of the same kingly power spoken of by peter , that it was ordained of god ; that the magistrate was god's minister to the christian man , ( as well as any other ) for good , to execute wrath upon him that does evil. which word , minister , refers evidently to him that bears the sword of justice , and not to the power only , which yet he affirms to be of god , and confirms it by this argument , for there is no power but of god ; the powers that be , are ordained of god. and this is the only comfortable ground of obedience to the higher powers , to be well satisfied in this , that whether it fall out our obedience shall be active or passive , yet therein we conform our selves to the will of god , or to his ordinance ; and he that shall resist the power , does resist the ordinance of god. . that kingly government is of god as clearly , if not more clearly than any other form of government , is very plain from the text it self , considered with the context , vers . , . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supreme , or unto governours , as unto them that are sent by him , &c. where supremacy over all persons in things civil , is so clearly given to the king by god himself , even over governours , as well as the people governed , that it must in no wise be denied . . if it be objected , that tho the power magistratical be of god , yet the form or mode of it is of man , because ( according to the greek ) pet. . . may be read thus , submit your selves to every humane creature . to this i say ; the words , humane creature , are better understood of the laws made by humane authority , than of the magistrates themselves : for as the most high god , and he only , can give being and power to a divine law , insomuch that no power on earth can create such a law ; so earthly gods , and none but they , can create and give power to an humane law ; and laws thus made , are rightly called humane creatures , or ordinances of men , ( as our english expresses it . ) and when laws are thus made , tho they should happen to be ill laws , ( as it sometimes happens to be so ) yet they must be obeyed , ( either actively or passively ) because the power magistratical must not be resisted ; only the error of an ill law must be refused by all faithful men , especially in matters of religion , as we have shewed before . . this great power which god hath given to kings and rulers of the earth , to make laws , is ( as i conceive ) the chief cause why they are called gods , psal . . . i have said ye are gods , and all of you are children of the most high : that is , because of that resemblance which they have to god himself , being decked with power and majesty , to make and execute laws ( in this lower world ) which concern the children of men as such . . and as to the form of kingly government ( for this is all that i can find in my text ) : let us hear what god himself saith . by me kings reign , and princes decree justice ; by me princes rule , and nobles , even all the judges of the earth . what can be said more in this case ? if any shall say , 't is not god , but wisdom that speaks these words , prov. . , . i answer , it is folly that makes the objection , for this wisdom is the voice of god , because it is the wisdom of god. kings are called the lords anointed . and not only the kings of israel , but even heathen kings also . isa . . . thus saith the lord to his anointed , even to cirus . now cirus was king of persia , ezra . . . . if yet it be said , that government , but not the form of government , is of god , but of human choice , &c. i answer , i speak not of a government to be formed , and not yet in being ; but of one established : and therefore , i say , the distinction is dangerous . but how shall it be a power or government without its form ? does god make an ordinance or any thing else without form ? if so , what can you call it ? it is the form that gives every thing to be , or at least to be called what it is . it 's bad venturing to say , that god makes an ordinance , and leaves man to form it , as to the essentials of it . and seeing no nation can long endure , without government , nor that government subsist without form. it seems necessary that both be acknowledged to be of god ; and consequently , where the form of government is regal or kingly , it is of god , and as such to be had in honour . that god does by his providence order and permit men to transact , order , and settle the mode of government , in nations which yet are unsetled in that respect , does not prove that the form or settlement when made is not of god , or not to be esteemed so ; because in such an emergency , the voice of the people , together with god's providence , must herein be acknowledged the voice of god. for thus in an ordinary way is that saying true , by me kings reign , and princes decree justice . by me princes rule , and nobles , even all the judges of the earth . it was the most high god which gave nebuchadnezzar a kingdom , majesty , glory and honour , dan. . . who then may question his regal power to be of god ? it 's ill murmuring , worse disputing , worst of all to fight against god. surely , if nebuchadnezzar must have this honour given to him as king , even by daniel that servant of god , because by the almighty he was thus exalted , altho otherwise he was a sinful man , a great idolater ; it must needs resolve all doubts that may arise , about the warrantableness of kingly government , and all christians obedience to it , with respect to all kings under whom they live , whatsoever . if it be objected , that some may usurp kingly government , and some that have it may abuse it . i answer ; tho this be true , yet it is nothing to the purpose ; for this is incident to all other forms of government . and when god permits such things , it 's usually for the sins of the people , as it is written , for the transgressions of a land , many are the princes thereof , prov. . . he gave them a king in his wrath : but this was because israel had rejected god , and his prophet samuel . otherwise god had promised to give his people a king , numb . . . yea , the government of moses himself was after a sort a regal or kingly government , deut. . , . if then it so fall out , that kings or other rulers do oppress their subjects , i know no remedy for the subject but prayers and tears , that god would turn their own hearts more to his fear , and the heart of their prince towards them ; ( for the hearts of kings are in his hands : ) and with patient suffering , and humble supplication , to seek for favour . for rebellion must by no means be admitted , for it is as the sin of witchcraft ; being against god , as well as against the king , because it is against the ordinance of god. and hence tertullian well said , the christian knows that the emperor is constituted of god. and saith the prophet , i have delivered all these countries into the hands of nebuchadnezzar : who then may take them out of his hand ? sure none but god , who sets up one , and puts down another , as pleases him . for he that gives can only rightfully take away , and he doth so when men abuse what he gives . mene , mene , takel vpharsin , god hath numbred thy kingdom , and finished it , — and given it to the medes and persians , dan. . , . if it be objected from that passage , they have set up kings , and not by me ; that kingly government is of man , not of god. i answer ; this rather proves the contrary , for here a disorder only is reproved in the way of doing that , which they could not do rightly but by him , that is , god. they so set up a king , as they rejected god , that he should not reign over them , sam. . . hence it was that samuel gave them that reproof and exhortation , sam. . . ye have done all this wickedness , yet turn not aside from following the lord , but serve the lord with all your heart . but god did not deny them a king : no , but he had given them direction how to chuse them a king , deut. . , , . and most certain it is , that of all civil governments which god hath set up in the world , kingly government is the most frequent , and permanent , so far as the scripture gives any account of this matter : and indeed it holds the nearest resemblance to that government which god himself exercises over the world in general ; for he is king of kings , and his kingdom ruleth over all . let us then come more directly to the text , honour the king. and , . of the honour which we owe to his royal person . we must esteem it very highly , and behave our-selves towards him with that fear and reverence which belongs to him , as placed next unto god. my son , fear thou the lord and the king , prov. . . give unto caesar the things which are caesar's , and to god the things which are god's . so the text , fear god , honour the king. we see the king holdeth the next place of honour unto god. hence tertullian , personating the christians of his time , says , we honour the emperour as a man next unto god. and saith optatus , above the emperour there is none but god , who made the emperour . if we will honour the king's person , or esteem him highly , we must not only upon all sit occasions , give him ( with reverence ) his place and titles of honour ; but also defend his person with the hazard of our own , as those did who would not suffer king david to hazard himself , saying , thou art worth ten thousand of us . let us hate to think or speak evil or contemptuously of him whom god hath exalted , and set over us . we find a remarkable instance of true love and loyalty to a prince , sam. . , , . here tho ittai was willed by the king , not to put himself in danger for him , yet he answers thus , as the lord liveth , and as my lord the king liveth , surely in what place my lord the king shall be , whether in death , or in life , even there also will thy servant be . this poor exiled stranger ( for such he was ) shall rise up in judgment against many native subjects , who have done quite contrary hereunto even in our days . . we must honour him in love. sincere love , and loyal affection , as he is king , can in no wise be wanting in a good subject : nor can we honour the king heartily , if we do not love him entirely . now he that truly loves his prince , has him much in his serious thoughts , especially when he prays to the god of heaven : he will not then forget him whom he truly loves , whom he honours in love. if he love him , he will pray for him ; perhaps that is all the good he can do his prince ; and in this a mean subject may serve his king , as much as any , so that his prayer be serious and godly . it is highly observable , how the duty of making prayer for all men , and particularly for kings and rulers , with supplication , intercession , and giving of thanks , is required of christians ; especially of those in the ministry : that by the ministers constant and devout performance of this duty in behalf of all that are in authority , the hearts of the people may be more endeared towards their prince , and themselves hereby instructed to perform their duty , and manifest their love to their governours in like manner , tim. . , . and to enforce the exhortation to this duty , the apostle tells us , that it is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour , vers . . . the next demonstration of honouring the king , shall be taken from the manner of our language , and the matter of our discourse when concerned to speak of him , or of his doings . in these we must hate the thoughts of scurrility , or reflecting expressions ; for the tongue is the index of the mind , and we are expresly forbidden to curse or speak evil of the king , even in our bed-chamber ; for these things are so odious , that providence will fight against such as do so , and the iniquity of such doings will return upon the offenders : for a bird in the air shall carry the news , and that which hath wings shall tell the tidings , eccles . . . are they not marked out in scripture for the worst sort of men , that are not afraid to speak evil of dignities ? more daring and presumptuous than angels , who are great in authority , and may lawfully do more than men , yet they dare not bring a railing accusation against the devil , who is the prince of darkness ; but they refer the wrong done to them unto god , who both can and will rebuke him . but why may not the good angels rebuke satan ? why they know ( as wicked as he is ) he could do nothing about the body of moses , nor any thing else , without license from the almighty : he must indeed be withstood in his temptations , but he must not be rail'd on it seems . and then what manner of men are they that will take liberty to rail on their princes , if they do not what they would have them ? nay , tho they should do evil , yet must they in no wise be evil spoken of . thou shalt not revile the gods , nor speak evil of the ruler of my people , exod. . . acts . . object . but have not the prophets reproved kings when they did evil ? i answer , yea ; god reproved them by his prophets frequently . and no doubt that men of god , such as have commission from him , may and ought to deal faithfully with kings and rulers , when they do that which is evil in the sight of the lord. but this is that which is intolerable , that the errors or infirmities of princes should be made the subject of mens discourse : surely they are rather to be lamented before the lord in secret . is it meet to say to a king , thou art wicked ? and to princes , ye are ungodly ? job . . the true sence of these interrogatives is , no. it is by no means thus to reflect upon a king. st. paul having spoken rashly , acts . . corrects and excuses himself , by saying , i wist not , brethren , that he was god's high priest : for it is written , thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of my people . let christians beware of this evil disease which reigns in these days . let them remember , they are bound by gospel-rules to honour the king , next to god himself . thus much of the honour which we owe to the king's person . let us now consider , how we are obliged by gospel-rules to obey his authority . and here , . let the subject consider how much god has set him below his prince , for obedience seldom issues from a lofty mind . it 's not impossible for a subject , in conceit , to be a prince's mate , and then subjection is death to him . that passage concerning mephibosheth , the son of jonathan , sam. . . was written for our learning . when he considered the majesty of king david , and his own condition as a subject ; what is thy servant ( saith he ) that thou shouldst look upon such a dead dog as i am ? such self-abasing thoughts in a subject ( especially those of low degree ) does argue an heart full of desires to honour him whom god has exalted as his king , and a mind willing to obey him . let christians learn by this example . . our saviour hath led us the right way : give unto caesar the things which are caesar's . but what things are they ? why the things which bear his image and superscription . whose image and superscription is this , says christ ? they say , caesar's . therefore , saith christ , give unto caesar , &c. we may hence fairly infer , that whatsoever bears the king's authority , or is required in his name , must be obeyed . submit your selves to every ordinance of man , for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supream , or unto governours , as unto those that are sent by him . mark , if they be sent by him , they bear his image , or superscription , they represent the king ; submit , submit , either actively or passively , here 's no resisting , for here comes caesar . only here it must be minded , caesar's superscription is only to be put to the ordinances of man. none can put a divine character upon a law but god ; and we must give to god the things which are god's , divine obedience , or obedience in all divine things , to god ; civil obedience , or obedience in all civil things , to caesar . thus has our saviour divided the matter of christians ( and all mens ) obedience to god , and to caesar . let us hold to this most just settlement , a better cannot possibly be given . . st. paul will have christians subjection to caesar , to proceed from them of pure conscience , or for conscience sake , rom. . not only wrath. and of this reason wills that we give all the assurance that we can to princes , that we are heartily their subjects ; and willingly obedient in all things which concerns their government over us . this principle of obedience in the heart , will make our obedience to princes delightful and durable ; they that have this good principle in them , will never be weary of any reasonable labour , service , or hazard for their king : where it is wanting , the king can put no confidence in them . this is so reasonable , so necessary , that he that hath not such an heart for his sovereign , is unworthy the name of a subject : he is no subject . from this principle , we are to pay tribute also , rom. . , . and not grudgingly . and when princes see men ready , in conscience of their duty , to serve them as god's vicegerents ; how naturally will this draw back again the influence of all princely favours ? that prince who is thus happy in the obedience of his subjects , will doubtless , as a loving father , contrive the best to make his subjects happy under his government . . how clearly is our duty to our superiors delivered by st. paul , tit. . , &c. put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers , to obey magistrates , to be ready to every good work . let the power be in this or the other form ( for all nations have not the same form of government ) you must not dispute that , you must chearfully obey , as becomes men of a ready mind , to do the good commanded by magistrates ; you must not ask whether they be heathen kings , or christian kings : you must obey all kings or magistrates , for they are god's ministers , attending on this very thing ; i. e. the government of the world : a very necessary thing , without which human society cannot subsist . here is no limitation of time for your subjection to princes , powers , and magistrates ; you are under this obligation so long as st. paul's epistle to titus is canonical . let not then any idle dream of the change of dispensations subvert you from the simplicity of the gospel-rules delivered in this great case , in which the happiness of christian men , as such , is much concerned : for , who shall harm them if they be careful followers of that which is good ? pet. . . but if it so fall out , that notwithstanding your care in this matter , ye must suffer for righteousness sake , then happy are ye , &c. for still religious obedience is due to god , and must be paid to him . . this place , tit. . . commands christians to be ready to every good work . obj. what if the powers command otherwise ? what then ? for answer to this , we know we have an obligation to obey god antecedent to that of our obedience to kings ( as has been shewed . ) he commands us to abstain from every appearance of evil , thess . . . wherefore if the power shall be so unhappy to command otherwise , as it fell out in the case of nebuchadnezzar , dan. . there the penalty must be patiently endured . and then the powers are still obeyed . and tho some vainly upbraid us , that there either is no such thing as passive obedience ; or that our obedience in this is like the obedience of a felon , when he goes to the gallows , &c. such blind byards may be pleased to know , the felon hath ordinarily nothing to chuse , but must necessarily dye : whereas the suffering christian has life and liberty offered if he will but worship so , or so . now here he chuses rather to suffer , than to do that which he conceives ( at least ) to be sin in the sight of god , that so he may be a faithful witness for god ; and therein a blessing to his prince and to his nation , which is his only way to silence the ignorance of foolish men ; whose unwary objections reflect not only upon all true martyrs since the world began , but upon christ himself , who for this cause was hated and persecuted , because he bore witness to the truth , joh. . . and that the works of the world were evil , john . . . but if it should happen that princes should some way intrench upon the civil rights of their subjects ? what then must we do ? what then ? why it is dangerous to contend with them in such cases ; we are taught otherwise by the example of our saviour , in his direction to st. peter , in the case of paying tribute to the roman magistrates , mat. . , , . for it is evident from this place , that our saviour was not obliged by law to pay custom or tribute , but was free in that case ; yet it being demanded , he advises peter to pay it , both for himself , and his master : so careful was he to avoid offences , that he will pay tribute , and advises his followers to do it too , tho it be in their own wrong . a good precedent to all christians to be humble , and not to contend with authority in or about indifferent things : would god they would consider it . . but it may here be demanded , whether princes may not warrantably punish such as submit not to the religion by them established , from the example of king artaxerxes , ezra . . . whosoever will not do the law of thy god , and the law of the king , let judgment be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or to banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or to imprisonment ? i confess , this objection requires a serious answer . and with submission to better judgments , i shall say a few things in answer to it . and it seems by the scope and contexture of the commission given to ezra by artaxerxes , that these things are evident : . that the king did not himself embrace the religion of the jewish nation , but retained still his former religion ; for tho he did fear the god of israel , yet he never calls him his god , but the god of heaven , and the god of ezra , &c. . that god had by a special providence , and motion from himself , disposed the heart of the king of persia , to give free liberty to the jews , which were captives in his dominions , to go forth to serve their god ; vers . . i make a decree , that all they of the people of israel , and of his priests and levites in my realm , which are minded of their own free will to go up to jerusalem , to go with thee , — to do whatsoever shall seem good to them , after the will of your god. . the king does not only give a present supply to ezra , as a free-will-offering to the god of israel , vers . . but also provides for his necessary supply for the future , out of the king's treasury , vers . . . the king fearing the displeasure of the god of israel against himself and his sons , does require ezra , that whatsoever was required by the god of heaven should be diligently done . . the king also empowers ezra to set magistrates and judges over the people , and in so doing , gave ezra a magistratical power , or made him a magistrate ; and so gives order , that whosoever would not be obedient to him should be punished , vers . , . this is the sum of the commission given to ezra by the king of persia . in all which , nothing appears , that any of his subjects should be compelled to alter their religion , nor be forced to be all of one religion : but a free liberty is given to the jews , ( as well as to others ) to serve their god according to his law , and a restraint laid upon them that would hinder them . and ezra is empowered ( indeed ) to punish those that were under the law of moses , according to that law , if they would not do it ; and such as withstood his authority , as a magistrate , which he received from the king , were to be punished by the law of the king of persia , who had the power of life and death in his hand , which the jewish nation had not at this time . . we may learn hence , that it is indeed a blessed thing for all kings to fear the god of heaven , and to advance the interest of religion in their dominions ; and it is as evident , that religion must always be setled according to the law of god , with the greatest care that may be , and none punished for keeping the law of god ; but for breaking the law of god , and the law of the king , which did concur with the law of god. here were great punishments assigned ; and yet not to be insisted on too rashly , in the times of the gospel , nor in cases purely evangelical , or of the christian religion , as it is dignified above the principles of common reason and morality : in these cases i cannot see how it should be in the power of magistrates to compell any against their will , seeing it's god , not man , that makes christians . ephes . . . we are his workmanship , created in christ jesus unto good works , which god hath before ordained , that we should walk in them . and god gives none the privileges of his children , until they be his children ; nor are they his children , till they be born , not of blood , nor of flesh , nor of the will of man , but of god. john . , . . nor must we deny , but acknowledg , that god's vicegerents are authorized by the almighty to be keepers of both tables , so as to defend his sovereignty , and to encourage true religion , against atheists and idolaters , that worship a creature instead of the creator ; for so it is written , job . , , . if i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightness , and my heart hath been secretly enticed , or my mouth hath kissed my hand ; this also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge , for i should have denied god that is above . now let us write ( or desire the lord to write ) the words of our text in our hearts ; honour all men ; love the brotherhood ; fear god ; honour the king. surely that christian , that shall make it his business to do these things heartily , shall be acceptable to god , and approved of men ; there shall be no occasion of stumbling in him . but if christians be too busy to inspect matters of state , or to meddle with those that contrive or project any thing to the disturbance and subversion of the government in the kingdoms where they live , they shall never be able to recommend their religion ( be it never so good in it self ) to the acceptance of their governors , nor to obtain from them to be nursing-fathers to it ; but shall certainly expose themselves to the displeasure of god , as well as to the wrath of princes . and god himself will vindicate the honour of his ordinance of worldly government , against all that despise it , as well as against all that abuse their power in it ; for there is no respect of persons with god. rom. . . let me therefore exhort you , my brethren , ( as you know it has been my manner these thirty years ) to follow peace with all men , and holiness ; to study to be quiet , and especially in troublesom times ; to fear the lord and the king , and meddle not with them that are given to change , prov. . . many have undone themselves by itching after changes in worldly government . god only knows what is best for you , and for the nation . they that are weary of this , are soon weary of that ; few know what they would have ; and who is able to devise any thing that will please all humors , and suit all interests ? bless god for your prince , and for the peace you have enjoyed under him , and pray for him , and for all that are in authority , that under them ( if the will of god be so ) you may lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty . they that will not pray for all that are in authority , do not fear god , for they contemn his word , tim. . . they do not love , and so they cannot honour the king. you are at present under sufferings , for the consciencious performance of what you believe to be your duty towards god in matters of religion ; humble your selves under the mighty hand of god , and suffer patiently what trials it shall please god to exercise you under , that ( as our apostle hath it , pet. . . ) the trial of your faith being much more precious than that of gold that perisheth , tho it be tried with fire , might be found unto praise , and honour , and glory , at the appearing of jesus christ . i say no more ; the lord direct you . amen . now if it shall please god , to bring this faithful ( tho unpolished ) discourse to his majesties royal hand , i do hereby in all humility prostrate my self at his royal feet , with this humble supplication . that it would graciously please his majesty , according to his wonted goodness , and princely clemency , to consider and pity the distressed condition of many of his faithful subjects , who dissent from the church of england in the case of infant-baptism , and some other ceremonies , and cannot in conscience to god conform to them ; nor deny the exercise of their religion , of which they are convinced , and persuaded to be according to the will of god. o let our lord the king consider , that this is the greatest strait that any honest christian can be put upon , either to deny what he believes to be true , or profess that to be true , which he believes to be otherwise . o let the god of heaven be always his majesties chief counsellour ; that by his direction he may rightly distinguish between those that are harmless in his realm , and such as have abused his kindnesses ( which have been very great , and thankfully to be remembred ) and that the present severities against the innocent may be abated and removed , lest they be made miserable in their native countrey . god almighty bless the king , &c. finis . the second part of the apology for the baptized believers , wherein the grounds of infant-baptism are reviewed : in answer to fourteen arguments , delivered by mr. nathaniel taylor , m. a. in a sermon on matth. . . entituled , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and therewithal , the reasons of the separation of the baptized believers , from the pedobaptists , modestly propounded . upon the occasion of their great and long-continued sufferings . by t. grantham , a servant of christ . london ; printed for the author . . an apology for the baptized believers , &c. presented to all pious and well-disposed christians in the church of england . sect . i. honoured and beloved brethren , to prevent a mistake , and to remove an aspersion too frequently cast upon us , be pleased to know , that tho we differ from you and others , in some things relating to the constitution and government of a true church , yet we do not therefore arrogate to our selves alone the christian name , nor exalt our selves in our imaginations above others ; but do believe and hope , that the number of the saved ones will be gathered out of all sorts of christians , who heartily love god and our lord jesus christ , and live holily and charitably among men , tho they be diversified in respect of ceremonies , by reason of the place and government where they live : yea , we have charity for all men , who are faithful to the means of grace afforded them , how small soever , knowing that our god delights in mercy , and does not exact the utmost farthing of any man. but for all this , as it is certain there hath been abundance of errors introduced among christians , so it has pleased god to raise up a people still to testify against them , ( the memories of whom are blessed , tho they were frequently persecuted . ) so we believe it a duty incumbent upon us , to bear our testimony to what truth we know , and not to partake with any in their by-paths in life or religion , and yet endeavour as much as in us lieth , after unity and concord with all that fear god , and own the christian profession . to which purpose we have humbly proposed what we thought concern'd us , in order to a better understanding and compliance , in our friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england , published some years ago , but has not been publickly taken notice of , till lately one mr. taylor , a person of worth for his integrity , and zeal for the protestant interest , and for his gentle disposition towards such as fear god , tho differing from him in the case of ceremonies . it hath pleased him ( i say ) to take notice of our said epistle , and to offer something in order to a composure of differences , which i confess , with him , to be a thing greatly to be desired . but then he is pleased to shew us nothing of mitigation , or hopes of the removal of the things which hath occasioned our disunion , but does rather wholly charge the cause of division upon us , and supposes our difference about baptism , to be the chief cause of our dissenting from the church of england . but tho this is indeed a matter of great importance , because true baptism is antecedent to church-communion ; yet that which is greater in our judgment , is that open prophaneness , which , god knows , reigns and rages in the church of england , and therewithal , the utter neglect of discipline to reform those iniquities ; and also that persecuting spirit , which appears even in too many of the guides of the church , by whose cruelty our sufferings have been much augmented . for these causes we have thought our selves concerned to make this our christian apology , in which we crave leave to use that freedom of speech which the matters depending do require . and yet , seeing we must acknowledg that we are not infallible , ( as neither does the church of england pretend so to be ) we shall speak under correction , and by the help of god , with resolution to submit to a clear conviction , if indeed it shall appear , that the things wherein we dissent are justifiable on the part of the church of england ; but till this be done , it would be hypocrisy and baseness in us , to violate our consciences in things pertaining to religion , to obtain favour from men ; for if we should so please men , we should not be the servants of christ . gal. . . and we do the 〈◊〉 desire to be heard at this time ; partly , for that mr. taylor is pleased to impute folly to us , in separating from the church of england , because we allow of the most of the thirty nine articles ; but especially being thereunto required by some of eminency and great authority in the church of england , who also told us , that unless we could shew , that the church of england does hold some error in point of faith , or that she does practise something in her religion which is sinful , we cannot justify our separation from her . and whether we be able on this wise to vindicate our present separation , is the business which we pray may be seriously considered . sect . ii. a brief account of the reasons why the baptized believers cannot conform to the ceremonies of the church of england . reserving all due honour to the church of england , so far as she holds the truth in the thirty nine articles , and as she is a good fortress against much popish superstition and idolatry ; we shall humbly make our objections in three particulars , . concerning infant-baptism . . concerning her discipline . . concerning her imposing of ceremonies . from all which we think we may safely argue thus : it is lawful , just , and needful , to maintain a prudent and friendly separation from such a church , as does believe , hold , and maintain such things , as are evidently and actually destructive of that christian liberty , wherewith christ hath made his churches free ; and of that sacred baptism , and holy discipline , which christ ordained to continue in all churches to the end of the world. but the church of england does believe , hold , and maintain such things , as are evidently and actually destructive of that christian liberty , wherewith christ hath made his churches free , and of that sacred baptism , and holy discipline , which christ ordained to continue in all churches , to the end of the world. ergo , it is lawful , just , and needful to maintain a prudent and friendly separation from the church of england in her present parochial constitution . supposing the major is not to be denied by any christian , we shall endeavour to make good the minor. to begin with sacred baptism . it is evident from the scripture , and partly from the confession of the church of england , that the things prerequisite to baptism , on the part of every one who is to be joined with the church militant , or to be baptized , are these : . they ought to have the gospel preached , or some way made known to them . . to believe the gospel . . to repent of sin. and , . willingly to put on christ in baptism . or to express it in short : they are , first , to be dead with christ ; and then , secondly , to be buried with christ by baptism . now that the church of england does hold such things as are evidently and actually destructive of this baptism , may in our judgment be thus proved : . she believes , holds , and does teach others to hold , that all , or the very most of her church-members are regenerate , without hearing the word of god , without faith , without repentance , or any knowledg of god ; and so believes what neither we , nor any body else can understand to be true , and errs in faith. . yet she does not believe that her members are regenerate at all , till she cross or sprinkle them with water ; neither does she know ( because she has no ground to believe ) that infants are thereby made anew , so as to become the children of god , and heirs of heaven ; and believing this without possibility ( ordinarily ) to know it to be true , she errs in faith. . she believes , and maintains , that those ought to be baptized , whom she knows do not , cannot believe , nor repent , nor in any measure know god , nor any duty of religion ; and herein she errs ( as we conceive ) concerning the faith. . she believes and maintains , that sponsors do believe and repent for infants , or that infants do perform faith and repentance by their sponsors ; and believing these things , and teaching her youth to believe them , without any ground from the word of god , she believes amiss , or errs in faith. . she holds , that persons may lawfully be baptized when they are asleep , and does actually pretend to baptize infants when they are asleep , which we think verily must needs be a very great error both in faith and practice . . she believes , holds , and maintains , that crossing or sprinkling is a lawful way of baptizing , when indeed it is no baptizing at all . insomuch as those that use that mode , dare not speak as they act , saying , i sprinkle thee in the name , &c. their conscience bearing them witness , that the sacred act of baptizing in the name , &c. cannot be expressed by the word , sprinkling : they therefore believing what they know is not true in this matter , must needs err in faith , as well as in their practice . and this error has in a manner destroyed the way of baptizing used by john baptist , christ and his apostles . . thus tho we grant , that the church of england is no less zealous for the doctrine of baptism than our selves , yet it is apparent to us , that she hath accidentally lost this holy ordinance , both in respect of the subject and manner of it , and in the due use and end of it , which was not appointed ( nor fitted ) to receive new-boru infants into the church militant . and by this unwarrantable change she has defaced the state , and lost the praise of a true church , cor. . . because she has not kept this ordinance , as it was delivered by christ and his apostles ; but hath rather suppressed it , and much oppressed those that labour to restore it to its due use and practice in all churches , which is a great aggravation of all these her errors in faith and practice , concerning sacred baptism . sect . iii. concerning discipline . what manner of discipline the church of christ ought to observe , is sufficiently declared , matth. . cor . thess . . tit. . and other places . and it is very well expressed by a minister of the church of england , in his def●nce of the thirty nine articles of the church of england , in these words : the manner of proceeding in excommunication is , first by gentle admonition , and that once or twice , given with the spirit of meekness , even as a brother , if the fault be not notoriously known , and next , by open reprehension ; afterward by publick sentence of the church , to put him from the company of the faithful , to deliver him to satan , to denounce him an heathen , and a publican , if no admonition will serve , and the crimes and persons be very offensive . thus he . and to this discipline we can heartily subscribe , it being indeed the very same which is religiously observed by the baptized believers in this age and nation . but where now shall this discipline be found in the church of england ? does any one assembly , or court , of the church of england observe it ? or does she not practise that in her courts , which is too evidently destructive of it ? for so far as we can understand , instead of this brotherly admonition , men are clandestinely presented and accused , and often excommunicated for they know not what . what man is now taught or bound by any order of the church of england , that in case his brother trespass against him , by defaming his reputation , offering injury to his person , or by wronging him in his substance , to take that brotherly course prescribed to all christians , mat. . ? or if he would take this course , what congregation is empowred or allowed to hear or determine the strife , as sin is in such cases committed against god ? we see not how it is possible for the offended , to do his duty in an orderly way to the offender ; if he go about it , he shall probably be derided both by teacher and people : so far is he from obtaining justice against the offender , in any congregation of the church of england , because the ancient discipline is an unknown thing to the people generally . and for want of this christian government , are men continually exposed to suits and troubles in courts of law , wherein the poor can have small help ; as it is written , eccles . . . ( old translation ) if thou seest the poor to be oppressed , — marvel not , — for one great man keepeth touch with another , and the mighty men are in authority over the poor . . but that which is more grievous : we do not see that open prophaneness can be met with , or suppressed by your discipline : for suppose a man be given to swearing , lying , drunkenness , and lascivious talking , ( as god knows , a great number of the members of the church of england are known to be such ) your discipline seems to have no power in such cases : for thus saith one of your own ministers : who minds canon , that prohibits common swearers , common drunkards , notorious whoremasters , and whores , &c. from the blessed sacrament of the lord's supper ? do not even bishops hear men swear a thousand oaths , and either do not , or dare not use any discipline against them ? but now if a good man do not stand up , and bow to the altar at the name of jesus , when the creed is read , because he dares not pay greater reverence ( in a religious way ) to any writing , than he pays to the holy scriptures ; if he dares not use the sign of the cross in baptism , nor sprinkle his child , &c. then shall he be prosecuted as a great sinner , cast to the devil , and laid in prison ; yea , he is sentenced already : for in canon . thus we read : whosoever shall affirm , that the rites and ceremonies of the church of england are — superstitious , or such — as men who are zealously and godlily affected , may not with any good conscience approve them , use them , or as occasion requireth , subscribe unto them ; let him be excommunicated ipso facto , and not restored , until he repent , and publickly revoke such his wicked errors . . thus ( as we conceive ) the discipline of righteousness , mercy , and charity , established by christ , is laid aside ; and a mercenary court set up , holding the traditions of men , instead of christ's institutions , in ecclesiastical government , who also live voluptuously upon the sins of the people . but as for the reformation of evil manners , or the making peace and concord , alas ! it is not sought for , nor indeed expected from these courts . and as the reverend grosthead said at rome , when he saw all things ruled by money , so may i say of the courts under consideration , o money , money , what wilt thou not do there ? as for the opprobrious language prohibited by the canon , we think it uncomely for any to use it , tho we dissent from the ceremonies themselves . sect . iv. concerning imposing of ceremonies . . all divine ceremonies ordained by christ , or his apostles , we reverence , and religiously observe and keep , as they were delivered . . that any church since their days , hath just power to make and ordain divine ceremonies , to be any necessary parts of the worship of god , we see no ground to believe ; much less , that such ceremonies may lawfully be imposed under pain of excommunication , banishment , imprisonment , loss of estate and life . for tho it is certain , god has given power to the rulers of the world , to make , change , or disannual laws in point of civil government ; yet we believe all the power on earth cannot make one institute or divine ceremony in religion . and therefore we cannot but think the church of england erred from the rule of righteousness , in decreeing rites and ceremonies which god has not commanded . . for when we see how sharply fome were reprehended by st. paul , for bringing the christian churches in galatia under some legal ceremonies , which once had a divine original and use in the church of god , as invaders of the liberty wherewith christ had made them free ; averring also , that if they were subject to them , christ should profit them nothing . gal. . , . we can see no ground to free the protestants from sin , who either take up scriptureless ceremonies from the papists , or invent ceremonies themselves ; but least of all , when they force men , will they , nill they , to conform to such ceremonies , or else to be ejected , and delivered up to satan . and surely it was very unreasonable for her bishops to consent to a law , that pious men , only dissenting in these things i from the church of england , should be banished , or else hanged as felons , without benefit of the clergy . and we humbly desire , that the severity of that law may be considered and mitigated . . but if it shall be said , that the ceremonies of the church of england , ( as the sprinkling of infants , the sign of the cross in baptism , bowing to the altar , to name no more at present ) are not sinful ; then how shall we be ever able to reprove a papist , for using holy water , bowing to the image of christ ? &c. certainly , if we must submit to the ceremonies of the church of england , in her present constitution , we must submit to theirs too , where they have power on their side to enforce them . but he that shall impartially consider what a learned protestant hath said of the sinfulness of that one ceremony of the sign of the cross in baptism , in his book entituled , against symbolizing with antichrist in ceremonies , will see great cause to avoid touching with any such inventions , however they may be supposed to have had an harmless use among christians at the first . but who sees not , that when such ceremonies have got the reputation of religion upon them , and are forced on by humane laws , what incredible miseries they have brought upon the christian world ? how have they lorded it over kings and kingdoms , over the estates , liberties and lives of christians ? who sees not , that being thus set up , they are sometimes more set by , than sincere faith , and an holy life ? as if all true religion ( and loyalty too ) were only to be judged of according to mens submission to those humane innovations . for it is notorious , even in this our land , that let a man but conform to all the ceremonies , he shall live honourably , let his life be never so debauched almost : but let a man refuse these ceremonies , out of conscience to god , because they are not from heaven , then he is envy's mark , let his life be never so just and harmless . such effects should lead us to consider what the causes are . and because we are speaking of ceremonies , we crave leave to enquire , what means the ceremony of the ring in marriage ? why are we forced not only to use it , but to use it in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy-ghost ? the church of england blames the papists for saying marriage is a sacrament ; but shall we then make a sacrament of a ring ? sure you make the ring as sacred in marriage , as you make the water in baptism . such usages as these , we fear , give the papists too much cause to use this speech , a protestant is but a papist scar'd out of his wits . it is not then any thing of prejudice or obstinacy , which makes us to stand off from the communion of the church of england , but an unfeigned desire to serve god aright , and a godly fear , lest by touching with these unwritten traditions , we should bring our souls under guilt in the sight of god. howbeit , if any can convince us , that the church of england is justifiable in these things here objected , we shall suspect our selves to be mistaken in other things , which we here mention not . now may it please the god of heaven , to put it into the hearts of the guides of the church of england , to consider these things . . that none of these ceremonies about which we differ from them , are required of christians in the holy scriptures . and that therefore , . to enforce them by excommunication and penal laws upon the consciences of men , is more than god requires of you , or any body else . and surely if the making these things necessary to our communion were but removed , so that things which are not delivered in the word of god were left at liberty , we should not stand at so great a distance from the church of england , as now we do : for tho we are verily persuaded , that these things objected against by us are errors , and therefore prudently to be amended ; yet we believe the imposing of them is a thousand times more offensive in the sight of god , and more grievous to the souls of men , because ( as we conceive ) god's authority is then usurped by man , and mens fear towards him is then taught by the precepts of men. and yet we know , and indeed must confess , that many things , as to the more convenient performance of religious services in a church-way , are left to the prudence of the church , guided therein by the general rules in the word of god ; and some things also ( which are not of the essence of christianity ) will seem doubtful to some , and clear to others . and therefore there will be a continual necessity of brotherly forbearance one towards another , in some sinless ceremonies , as many things may be so esteemed , whilst not made the boundaries of communion , and forced upon christians against their consciences . for example : tho sitting be the most safe gesture at the lord's table , because nearest to christ's example ; yet if any in humility , and of devotion to god , think it their duty to receive kneeling , this surely cannot justly offend any christian . and thus also bowing at the name of jesus , being left at liberty , when , where , and upon what occasion the conscience of a christian may be most pressed to do it , need not offend any , tho it is apparent such bowing is not the meaning of the text , phil. . . and the same may be said of well-composed prayers ; so that still such forms be used as a matter of christian liberty , and not imposed by law as necessary . and could things be managed with such moderation , ( as certainly the state of the inhabitants of this land does much call for it ) in a friendly and brotherly spirit , 't is hoped our animosities would abate , and charity would endear all that are upright towards god one towards another , tho labouring under many weaknesses , or dark circumstances . but whilst one party stands up with a sword in their hand , or with power to thrust men into goal , and rifle their estates , unless they will all submit to their will and pleasure , not only without , but perhaps in some things against the word of god , ( the pretended rule to all protestants in matters of religion ) this lays a necessity upon all that are of noble and truly christian spirits , to testify against such cruelty , and unmanly proceedings , and to assert the true christian doctrine and liberty , and christ's sovereign authority only , to make laws for his church , as such , altho for so doing they suffe the loss of all things which are dear to them in this world ; and therewithal , to stand off from the communion of such unreasonable men , as have not learned to do to others , as they would have others to do to them under their differing opinions , when in a state of subjection to those who differ from them . thus much briefly of the reasons or causes of our separation . we will now consider what mr. n. taylor brings to make good poedobaptism . and the rather , because he says he has defended infant-baptism both by scripture and reason . let us hear how he doth this . mr. nathaniel taylor' 's fourteen arguments for infant-baptism , considered and answered . before we answer his arguments , we will take notice of some of his concessions . and , . he saith , baptism of water is not absolutely necessary to salvation . pag. . . he tells us , st. paul joins the word of god with this baptism , in order to the purifying christ's church , that acting on the soul , and this terminating on the body . and that st. peter's assertion is clear that it is not water purifying the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience towards god that saveth . pag. . . he tells us also , that the premising the word disciple ( matth. . . ) implies none to be capable of baptism , who are not disciples of christ , and members of the church . pag. . . and further , that christ would have his ordinances performed by an external administration , wherein the subject might be in the nearest capacity of understanding . pag. , . . he grants , that childrens baptism , and church-membership , are not mentioned in the new testament . pag. . from all which a man may very fairly argue , and conclude against infant-baptism thus . if infants are undoubtedly saved without baptism ; and are members of christ's church without baptism , and that the word of god must act upon the soul in true baptism , so as that the subject of baptism must have the answer of a good conscience : and if none be capable of baptism , till they be disciples of christ , according to matth. . . and ought to be in the nearest capacity of understanding what is done in the external administration of baptism . and if infant-church-membership and baptism be not mentioned in the new testament ; then infants ought not to be baptized . but all this is true , saith mr. taylor : therefore i conclude infants ought not to be baptized . and thus his book ( i will not say ( as he ) may be soon blown away ; but it ) may seem to be soon answered : and his learned title very unsuitable . for how shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when it is not mention'd in the new testament ; can that be orthodoxal baptism which is not mentioned there ? sure this is incredible . but let us hear his arguments , by which he undertakes to vindicate infant-baptism both by scripture and reason . mr. taylor 's argument . if our christian privileges be as great as the jews were , then our children are rightly baptized : but our christian privileges are as great as the jews were : therefore our children are rightly baptized . answer . because mr. taylor says he offers his reasons for infant-baptism , in order to a composure of differences , and i do believe he means as he says ; i shall therefore endeavour to answer them with all love and sincerity , as becomes a christian . and , i say , . that upon a fair distinction , both propositions may be denied . for , if the question be of external privileges only ; then whether we respect outward advantages in the world , or rites and ceremonies in the church pertinent to infants ; the minor is to be denied : for the jews were under a sure promise of a fruitful land , and external peace and glory , as a nation , whilst they did truly walk according to the laws of god , of which advantages their children were partakers as well as others . but on the other side , the christian church by how much she is more faithful , by so much the more is she subject to persecution : as may be seen in the differing estate of the faithful church at smyrna , rev. . , . and the unfaithful church at laodicea , rev. . . or if we rerespect rites and ceremonies , then 't is certain , even in the judgment of all christians , the jews had more ceremonies belonging to their infants , than belongs to christian infants . for besides the rite of circumcision , there was an offering to be offered for them , and they were to be presented in the temple , and to partake of the passover , exod. . , . ( and therefore mr. taylor does ill to deny it , pag. . ) whereas the poedobaptists only contend for the external rite of baptism to belong to their infants . but if by the word privileges in the argument be meant some higher thing than external ceremonies , then the minor is true : for as god was gracious to infants in the jewish nation , as to the business of salvation : so is he such to the infants of every christian nation in the world. but if now you be displeased , because i do not prefer , or at least equalize christians infants with jewish infants , in respect of external ceremonies . then let me freely tell you , that i do believe the privileges of christians is greater than the jews , even in this , that god accepts our infants to his grace , and to glory , without imposing the burthen of any ceremony at all upon them . for seeing he has by the gospel taken away that bloody ceremony of circumcision , and by our lord christ declared infants to have right to the kingdom of heaven , without imposing any ceremony upon them instead of circumcision , i say , herein our privileges are greater than the jews , and in this sense i confirm your minor. but then i deny the consequence of your major : for you may plainly see that our christian privileges ( when compared with the jews ) stand not in having external ceremonies , but rather in being freed from them . even as it cannot be doubted but that the children of seth , henoch , and noah , &c. had as great privileges as the jews , and yet it is certain [ and plainly confessed by augustine ] that they had no ceremony or sign of regeneration belonging to them that we read of . aug. de civ . dei , lib. . cap. . thus your chief fort being demolished , what reasons you bring to defend it signifie nothing ; however we shall meet with them in the following arguments . mr. taylor 's argument . those who were circumcised under the law , may be baptized under the gospel : but children were circumcised under the law : therefore they may be baptized under the gospel . answer . . i answer to the major . if by [ those ] you mean all those that were circumcised under the law : then the major is not true . for first , all male-servants which were bought with money , must needs be circumcised , they might not else dwell in the family : ( gen. . , , . exod. . , , . ) but no such imposition is laid upon families under the gospel , cor. . . if by [ those ] you mean infants , then i deny your major : for tho infants were circumcised under the law , it does not follow that infants may be baptized under the gospel : nor do your arguments , brought to make it good , prove it at all . for , . tho baptism succeeds circumcision as the sacrament of initiation , yet it does not follow , that the same persons , or persons no otherwise qualified than the infants of the jews , or servants bought with money , are to be admitted to baptism ; because circumcision belonged to the natural seed of abraham as such , whether in the covenant or no ( as in the case of ishmael , ) and to his servants as such . but baptism being the sacrament or washing of regeneration , belongs to those who are born from above ( as such ) ; hence 't is said , gal. . . we are abraham's seed , because we are christ's , so , as to have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts : gal. . . and not that they are christ's , because they are abraham's seed . this vast difference therefore between the communicants of the church jewish , and the church christian , shews a great difference between the carnal ordinances of the law , and the spiritual ordinances of the gospel : so that it is no good arguing from infants right to the one , to their right to the other . . you say our children are as capable of being baptized , as the jews were of being circumcised . but this is denied : for the jews had a command to circumcise infants , and that made them capable of that ceremony ; but without a command none were capable of it : for some infants might be as capable of circumcision in respect of strength , on the seventh day , as others on the eighth day ; but the command not empowering any to circumcise till the eighth day , made all children that died before the eighth day uncapable of circumcision . again , you will not say that any man , as such only , is capable of baptism , because you grant they must first be disciples , and , as such , baptized . nor will you say , that all infants , as such only , may be baptized , because you do not think god has required the infants of the turks to be baptized . so then , unless you can shew that god has required our infants to be baptized , they have no capacity for it . we conclude then , whatever may be urged as a capacity for baptism , yet without a command from god , to baptize our infants , is meer will-worship and presumption . . you say , that the precept of receiving parent and child into covenant stands unrepealed to this day . but if by receiving into covenant , you mean a receiving to the duties of the covenant , what you say is not true ; for the covenant of circumcision is repealed . gal. . . behold , i paul say unto you , if ye be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . and there was never any covenant , but the covenant of circumcision , which obliged parents to bring their infants to the ceremonies of religion : so then infants are not under the burthen of any ceremonies of religion at this day . i marvel you should here say , there is no countermand of the ancient jewish practice of receiving children to circumcision . either the printer has wrong'd you , or else you hold the jews are yet bound to circumcise their infants . . you argue from christ's being proposed as mediator of a better covenant , that therefore this great privilege ( you mean , bringing infants to ceremonies of religion ) is not repealed . but the truth is far otherwise ; for the covenant of christ as mediator , is therefore better than the covenant of the law , because he has taken these ceremonies out of the way , and accepts poor infants without any other ceremony instead of them ; yea , the covenant is therefore better to believers themselves , in that they are obliged but to a very few ceremonies , whilst the jews laboured under a burthensom yoke of many ceremonies . and if your way of arguing were good , it would prove , that the gospel is worse to believers , than the law was to the adult jews , because they had abundance of religious privileges , to wit , ceremonies , and believers have but a very few . now who would think , that wise and good men should thus grope at noon-day ? . you quote acts . , . and say , that this text expresly avers your conclusion . but it is certain , the promise there , is not of bringing infants to any ceremonies , and so does not at all favour your conclusion ; for the promise being of the pouring out of the gifts of the holy-ghost , according to the prophecy of joel , concerns not infants in infancy , saith dr. jer. taylor . and as for the precept in the text , [ to wit , repent , and be baptized every one of you , ] 't is as certain that concerns not infants ; for infants are just persons , which need no repentance , and consequently as little need the baptism of repentance . i rather therefore adhere to dr. jer. taylor , than to mr. nath. taylor in this case ; and i find that erasmus and diodate do expound this text as we do . . now , sir , your great strait seems to be this : you think the children of heathens have as great privileges as we allow to the infants of christians . let me answer freely ; i do believe , that through the grace of christ their infants , dying such , are in as sure a capacity for salvation as our infants . and why should this offend , that seeing infants are equally concluded under sin in the first adam , god should have equally mercy upon them in the second adam . nay , does not mr. taylor himself tell us , p. . that it 's dreadful to believe , that all infants which die unbaptized , are damned . and that any of them shall be damned , he cannot prove , seeing he says , he cannot implead them of sin , in not being baptized , being not capable of desiring it . well , i thank him for this , and shall requite him by granting , christians infants are more happy in some gracious respects , than the infants of the heathen , being the seed of many prayers , and piously devoted therein to almighty god from the womb , and have the advantage of an early education in the christian religion , that they may be as timely baptized as may be : on the other side , the infants of the heathens are perhaps devoted to idols , as the jews did sometimes devote theirs to moloch . but yet , as we do not think that god sent the jews infants to burn in hell , because their parents burnt them to moloch ; so neither ought we to think , that he will punish the infants of the heathen with devils , because their parents devoted them to idols ; for as for poor infants , what have they done ? . you answer not our objections , by saying , the covenant of grace , gen. . , . is permanent to the worlds end , &c. for tho this were true , yet that the ceremonies which there accompany that covenant , were to continue to the world's end , and should pertain to infants to the world's end , you neither believe your self , nor can any man prove , that any ceremonies by order from christ should belong to infants to the world's end , seeing it is granted , that infant-baptism is not mentioned in the new testament . and if i yield you your five considerations following , pag. . i do not see that you gain any thing as to the point in question ; i therefore proceed . . i think you mistake , where you write that we say , those that had right to circumcision were a spiritual seed ; for we know that the carnal seed had right to it : what therefore you would build upon this mistake falls of it self . but whereas you would infer , that baptism , as well as circumcision , belongs to the carnal seed , it is certainly a great error . it is true , some that are hypocrites may come to sacred baptism , but then they profess ( at least ) to be otherwise , and are not admitted as hypocrites , nor as men only , ( as you seem to urge , numb . , p. . ) but as they declare themselves christians , or spiritual . and therefore it is said of the whole church , ye are all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus ; for as many as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ . gal. . , . and again , col. . ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of christ . [ therefore , rom. . ] we are buried with him in baptism . and besides this , your church makes baptism a visible sign of an inward or spiritual grace ; and does affirm of all whom she admits to baptism , that they are regenerate , and born anew : which shews that in this point we agree , that the inward work of grace should be in all that are baptized . . i grant , that jeremiah and john baptist were sanctified , or separated to god from the womb , the one to be a prophet , the other to be the fore-runner of our lord christ ; yet i deny , that these extraordinary cases are to be made the rules for us to baptize by . god knows what we will be from our birth to our death ; but these things are hid from us . things revealed and commanded belong to us . we may not presume to think either of men or infants above what is written ; to say , this is sanctified from the womb , and that not ; this is a believer , and that not , &c. but shew us a rule to baptize infants , and we will dispute no further . mr. taylor 's argument . those who are within the covenant of grace , may be baptized : but children are within the covenant of grace : therefore children may be baptized . answer . . the major being taken universally , for all that are in the covenant of grace , then it is to be denied ; for god never made that the rule of baptizing . nay , when circumcision was in the greatest use , yet all that were in the covenant of grace were not to be circumcised . such were the many thousands of male infants , who died before they were eight days old ; these were in covenant , and their salvation as sure as if they had been circumcised . the females also were in covenant , yet not to be circumcised . if you say they were not capable , learned authors tell you otherwise , and name some nations who circumcise both sexes to this day . by this you see your major runs upon a false supposition . . and if by those who are within the covenant , you mean some of those , then your argument comes short of the question , viz. whether all that are in the covenant of grace may be baptized ? but let us try your minor. the covenant of grace hath two parts , . a declaration of god's mercy in mans redemption ; in this respect i grant , infants are within the covenant of grace . . a declaration of mans duty in point of faith and obedience ; in this sence i deny infants to be in the covenant . let us hear therefore how you confirm your minor. . you say , it is verified , in that baptism is the seal of the covenant now , as circumcision was under the law , &c. and therefore those who are under the participation of the covenant , may be admitted to the seal , &c. . but why do our brethren of the church of england speak of the seal in the singular ? they used to tell us , the covenant has two seals , to wit , baptism , and the table of the lord. and i will abide by it , that the lord's table is as truly a seal of the covenant , as baptism . yet you deny infants this seal , tho you know when they first baptized infants , they also brought them to the lord's table , and this custom continued six hundred years . but i deny your consequence ; it follows not , that all that are in covenant may have the seal of baptism . and you tell us , that god's grace is universal , pag. . yet you will not say that baptism is universal ; it belongs but to those who restipulate , and enter into covenant upon the terms of faith and repentance . acts . . when they believed , &c. they were baptized , both men and women . and here the city of samaria generally received the gospel , and yet not an infant baptized . . but how shall i understand you , where you say , that children never excluded themselves from the covenant of grace , because not actual vnbelievers , and none but such were ejected ? and where you presently say , they have the covenant belonging to them with their believing parents ? have infants no benefit by the covenant of grace , unless their parents believe ? alas ! poor infants ! but sure god does not exclude infants from the covenant of grace , made for mankind in christ , because their parents believe not ; no , i will hold to your first saying , that none but actual vnbelievers are rejected . . that the holiness mentioned , cor. . . is only legitimacy , or lawfulness of birth , you would have to be only a gloss of the anabaptists . but how can you fairly take it for any other , seeing it is taken immediately from the sanctification of the unbelieving husband , as the word [ else ] being rightly referred , makes evident . upon which consideration , erasmus expounds this place expresly as we do , yet he was a poedobaptist . and austin long before him said , whatever that holiness is , cor. . . it is certain it is not of power to make christians , or remit sins . sir , if you consider the scope of the place , cor. . you will find , some in that church were in doubt whether they might dwell with their unbelieving yokefellows . st. paul resolves the doubt in the affirmative , and gives this reason for it : the unbelieving husband is sanctified to the believing wife ; and if he were not so , their children were unclean , but he being sanctified , their children were clean ; for marriage is honourable among all , and the marriage-bed undefiled , heb. . therefore let not the husband put away his wife , nor the wife depart from her husband . . what you say further to this argument , being built upon a wrong supposition , viz. that we deny infants to be within the covenant of grace , falls of it self . for we say with you , till they by actual unbelief exclude themselves , the grace of god extends to them , as well as to others , in respect of their salvation . mr. taylor 's argument . those who have right to the blessings of the covenant , have right to baptism : but children have right to the blessings of the covenant : therefore they have right to baptism . answer . . this argument is upon the matter the same with the former , and therefore upon the former distinction the major is denied : for tho infants have right to all the blessings of the covenant which they have need of , yet they have no right to the duties of the covenant , which they have no need of , because god requires no duties of them . . and tho you say , that our concession ( that infants are within the covenant of grace ) proves that infants have right to all the privileges of the covenant ; yet this is contrary to your own judgment , for you your selves deny them right to the lord's table , and indeed all other privileges , as much as we do , except your crossing and sprinkling them . what you say further here , is often repeated , and will be considered in the following arguments ; and if i repeat in my answers , you have compelled me . mr. taylor 's argument . those who are capable of being engaged in covenant with god , are capable of baptism : but children are capable of being engaged in covenant with god : therefore children are capable of baptism . answer . . this argument , ( as most of the rest ) may be retorted thus ; they that are capable of being engaged in covenant with god , are capable of the lord's table : but infants are capable of being engaged in the covenant , &c. ergo , they are capable of the lord's table . which sufficiently shews the unsoundness of your argument . but let us examine the proof of your major . . to this purpose you tell us , that infants are in the power of their parents , to dispose of , as to temporals and spirituals . and your reason is , because parents are obliged to take the greatest care imaginable of their childrens souls , for their education in the fear of god. well , now i see why you use not the word infants , but children , all along in your arguments : you know that infants , such as you sprinkle , are not capable of any education at all . they cannot be taught the fear of god. they then cannot be engaged in covenant by the means of education , nor can they in that state be brought up in his service , in respect of religious ordinances : so that instead of proving , you have lost your minor. . what you argue , from deut. . , , . will never prove that infants are capable of entering into covenant with god in their own persons ; but that their parents did engage to bring them up in the laws of god ; and what this is to the purpose , i do not imagine . is it therefore my duty to baptize my children , without a command from god to do so , meerly because by the covenant of grace , and rules of christianity , i am to do my best to teach my children the fear of the lord ? this is very inconsequent , and will as much oblige me to bring my infants to the lord's table , as i have shewed . this last you will not allow , because god requires it not ; and for the same reason i refuse to bring my infants to baptism , tho i believe it my duty to do all that i can to engage them in covenant with god , by christian education in the fear of god , that they may serve him in all his commands and ordinances blameless . . wherefore in answer to your argument : if by infants being capable of being engaged in covenant with god , you mean the parents engagement to educate them in the fear of god , &c. then i deny your major , and say , those who are only capable thus to be engaged with god in covenant , are not capable of baptism . but if you mean , a personal and actual entring into covenant with god , then i deny your minor , and all the experience of the world confutes you . . you shall never be able to prove that infants are capable of fasting and 〈…〉 duties , tho you seem to affirm it ; and what 〈…〉 the beasts ) and that fast was pleasing to 〈…〉 arises to prove that either infants , or the 〈…〉 any duty to god , nor that they are therefore to be brought to the participation of baptism , nor any other religious ordinance , without order from god to do it . yet if a man were disposed to syllogize from hence after your manner , he might as strongly plead for one error , as you do for another . . the capacity of jewish children for circumcision , or other rites of the law , depended chiefly on the will of god to order it so . prove that it is his will to have infants baptized , and we will not mention their incapacity . if it be not his will , wherefore is it done ? who has required it ? mr. taylor 's argument . those who are members of christ's church , ought to be baptized : but children are members of christ's church : therefore children ought to be baptized . answer . if by the church of christ , you mean all that since the death of christ , shall be saved ; then i deny the major . for the infants of the poor indians may be saved , yet in your judgment they ought not to be baptized . but if by the church of christ , you mean only such as are in the actual profession of the gospel : then i deny the minor , and retort your argument thus . . those who are members of the church , ought to continue in the apostles doctrine , and in fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . but &c. ergo , &c. the major is proved , acts . . cor. . they continued stedfastly in the apostle's doctrine , and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . we being many , are one body and one bread , for we are all partakers of that one bread. these things were spoken of the whole church , which was in these places engaged in the actual profession of the gospel . now see how you can defend your self against my minor , and therein you will easily see the infirmity of your own . . but to prove your minor , you say , the children of the jews were with their parents church-members under the law , and that law is not yet repealed . but if by their church-membership you mean , their right to , and their parents act in bringing them to ceremonies in religion , the contrary is true . the covenant of circumcision being repealed , as it was an obligation to the children of israel , and never made with any nation since ; nor any other covenant extant where such things are imposed upon infants . . that the children of converted jews , lost not their privileges , is not true , if by privileges you intend ceremonies ; but if by privileges you mean a being delivered from the law of ceremonies , then i grant it . and it is certainly a greater privilege that children are under a declared right to the kingdom of god by christ , and his gracious blessing a part of them , as a pledg for the whole , than if he had ordained a law to baptize them in order thereunto . and it is also certain , that the jewish church-state , being dissolved upon the death of christ , and the gospel-church , confirmed in the gift of tongues , &c. no person could rightly stand a member of the jewish church , which was the only church that ever had command from god to bring their infants to rites of religion . . you still urge , that the gentiles had equal privileges with the jews . and i grant they have greater privileges , but not in rites and ceremonies , but rather in being accepted without them , as touching their infants , and with a very few as touching themselves . but you say further , that the children of parents who did not believe , were rejected ; therefore the children of believing parents , or gentiles , are church-members . and here , i confess , i know not how to reconcile you to your self , where you say , none are excluded from the covenant of grace but actual vnbelievers , pag. . sure the son shall not dye for the sin of the parents , so as to go to hell with them . shall not the judg of all the earth do right ? . you say , children are either members of the visible church of christ , or else are visibly of satan's kingdom , there is no medium between these two . surely i did not think mr. taylor had been of this opinion ! no papist can say worse of poor infants . here you condemn many thousands of infants ; god give you a better understanding . are infants of jews , turks , and indians all of the visible kingdom of satan ? no , i will believe my saviour , who saith , it is not the will of his heavenly father that one of these little ones should perish , mat. . . and sure i am , that none are truly of satan's kingdom , but such as are his subjects . for he has no right over any by creation , and purchase , as god and christ have . now it being clear , that infants are none of satan's subjects , it must needs be very injurious , to say they are visibly of his kingdom . but being created by god , and redeemed by christ , and never offended in their own persons , it is rational to think they are in god's favour , as it appears the infants of the ninevites were , jonah . in his gracious arms we shall therefore leave them , and proceed . mr. taylor 's argument . those who are disciples of christ may be baptized : but children are disciples of christ : therefore children may be baptized . answer . . the minor is denied . infants are not disciples of christ , neither does god and christ own them for such , as you affirm . but you bring acts . , , . to prove it , and say , that the yoak which the jews would have laid upon the new converted gentiles , was circumcision , which pertained to children who were circumcised the eighth day , and yet it is laid too upon the disciples necks . but sir , do you think this to be rational , that because the jews would have laid the yoak of circumcision on the necks of the disciples , that therefore all were disciples upon whom they would have laid that yoak ? sure this is a very unlawful consequence : no better than this ; you would lay the yoak of crossing and sprinkling upon infants , therefore all are infants upon whom you would lay the yoak of crossing and sprinkling . again , they that were preserved in the ark of noah were men and women : therefore all that were preserved in the ark of noah were men and women . you may easily see these consequences are very untrue , and verily so is yours . for tho the false apostles would have laid the yoak of circumcision upon the necks of the disciples , yet all were not disciples whom they would have circumcised : for 't is said , they taught the brethren , except they were circumcised , &c. they could not be saved . but you cannot imagine that they taught infants . if acts . be diligently read , it will expound it self ; for vers . . the disciples are said to be such as from among the gentiles were turned to god. and all that are called disciples , vers . . are called brethren , and as such they are written unto by the assembly , vers . . and the epistle is said to be read to all the multitude ( meaning of the disciples , ) who thereupon are said to rejoice for the consolation : sure these were no infants . . but you say , they are disciples in that ; tho man cannot teach them , yet god can , and may . well , i thank you for your ingenuity . it is true ( as you say ) man cannot teach , or make infants disciples ; and then to be sure , they are not intended by our saviour to be made disciples , by what he says in your text , mat. . . for all that are to be made disciples , by that commission , are to be made such by men : so that you are evidently besides your text , in all that you say to this argument , and you are beside your own exposition of your text also , which i will here set down , as you give it , pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , going to disciple all nations , instruct them in the principles of my religion ; and then being disciples , baptize them : so that there is a discipleship pre-existent to baptism ; and indeed the premising the word disciple , implies none to be capable of baptism , who are not disciples of christ , and members of his church . these are your words . 't is true , you say infants will be proved to be disciples . but surely , not by saying as you do here , that god can make them disciples , or teach them : for it is no good arguing from what god can do , to say he has done it , or will do it . for god can , of the stones in the street , raise up children unto abraham , but i may not therefore say the stones in the srreet are the children of abraham . you say indeed , that god hath given several instances of his teaching several from the womb , but you can neither name the persons , nor shew us what he taught them ; however if you could , such miraculous operations are not given for general rules . god once taught a dumb ass to speak , and to reprove a prophet ; but it would be bad arguing from this instance , that asses are disciples : and yet this is a clearer instance of god's teaching the ass , than you can give of his teaching any infant . . but seeing you put infants discipleship upon the account of god's teaching them , you must have some competent ground to believe that he has miraculously taught them , before you baptize them ; or else you destroy your exposition of the text , which avers , that there is a discipleship pre-existent to baptism . and when you shall shew me the infant whom god hath taught , or made a disciple , i believe i shall not oppose your baptizing that infant , and this is as much as you can desire . . but you say further , that god hath promised to teach children . what , sir , in their infancy ? let us see your proofs ; isa . . . all thy children shall be taught of the lord , and great shall be the peace of thy children . john . . it is written in the prophets , and they shall be all taught of god. every man therefore that hath heard and learned of the father , cometh unto me . certainly had you read those texts with their coherence , and considered , that our saviour himself in the latter expounds the former , you would never have imagined , that god here promises to teach any infants , much less all the infants in the christian nations ; for it is very apparent , they that are taught according to these scriptures , have heard and learned of the father , so as to come to christ . and indeed the meaning is , that god speaking to us by his son , ( who is very god , john . ) had now made good that gracious promise , isa . . . all thy children shall be taught of the lord. but you have another text , acts . . can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , who have received the holy-ghost as well as we ? now he that reads this place , will easily see , that the persons here spoken of were only such as were assembled to hear peter , in whatsoever they should be commanded of god ; and that the holy-ghost fell on all that heard the word . which place therefore can with no shew of reason be brought , to prove that infants are taught of god. however , when you shall find an infant , that has received the holy-ghost , as well as the apostles ; then for my part i shall not forbid water , that you should baptize him , provided you first be baptized your self . . you will have infants to be disciples , because christ ( you say ) commands the receiving of them in his name ; and you quote luke . , . mat. . . luke . . i have carefully read all these places , but can find no command to receive infants in the name of christ , much less to receive them by baptism . it is true , christ called a little child unto him , and said , whosoever shall receive this child in my name , receiveth me . now this child was able to know what christ said , and is no fit instance to prove an infant of eight days old to be a disciple of christ ; neither does this text call this child a disciple , but the disciples are distinguished from it . and yet it ( and so any little child ) may be a good precedent even to disciples , to learn humility and simplicity by ; and so may a lamb or a dove serve to teach us to be humble and harmless , yet they are not therefore disciples . neither can the receiving this child , ( or any other in like case ) be understood of receiving them by baptism ; for then you may read the place thus , whosoever baytizeth a child in my name , baptizeth me ; but this is both false and absurd . and besides , he that is baptized , may be rather said to receive christ , than he that baptizeth , in that action . or would you make our saviour to say , he that baptizeth an infant in my name , receiveth me ? if so , i would know by what authority you take the word , receiveth , for baptizing in the first place , and in the second for something else . surely , if to baptize an infant in the name of christ , be a receiving of christ , it 's an easy thing to receive christ , especially for the priest , who pretends to baptize infants daily . but sure it is as much the duty of other christians to receive children in the name of christ , as the priests ; for the word is , whosoever shall receive this child in my name ; and therefore it cannot be meant of baptizing them , and then these scriptures prove not your argument at all . . you urge , that infants are members of earthly kingdoms , and i grant it ; and also i grant , that they belong to the kingdom of heaven , and so are of the universal church : but this proves not that they are disciples at all ; for the infants of heathens are members of kingdoms , and may go to heaven , and yet you think they are no disciples for all that . and if infants may in some sence be said to be god's servants , psal . . . yet this proves not that they are disciples ; for all creatures , as well sensitive , vegetative , as rational , are said to be his servants , yet all creatures are not christ's disciples . mr. taylor 's argument . to whom christ grants imposition of hands , to them belongs baptism : but to children christ grants imposition of hands : therefore to them belongs baptism . answer . . if the major proposition be taken universally , that to whomsoever christ granted imposition of hands ( or touching ) in any case , that to them belongs baptism , then the major is not true ; for he touched or put his hand upon the dead , yet baptism belongs not to the dead , luke . . if it be said , christ touched the bier , not the dead ; i answer : he touched the childrens cloaths , when he took them in his arms ; but he took the dead damsel by the hand , and said , talitha , cumi , damsel , i say unto thee , arise . mark . . thus much to the major ; now to the minor. . if by laying on of hands , you understand that which by christ's doctrine , heb. . . is made a standing ordinance in his church , and in order next to baptism , as is evident you do ; then i deny your minor : for that ordinance was not yet instituted , nor useful , because the end of it was not yet to be received ; for the spirit of promise was not yet given , nor as yet to be given , because jesus was not yet glorified , john . wherefore your misinterpretation of mat. . , , . is injurious to truth , and would prefer these infants to the apostles , in the reception of the first-fruits of the spirit , unless you think christ laid hands on the children , without obtaining the end or essect of the service . so then it 's clear , that this laying on of hands , or touching infants , ( for so it is expressed both by st. mark and st. luke ) cannot with any fairness be understood of that laying on of hands which follows baptism , and therefore is no proof at all for your minor. . the church of england does not believe that infants are fit subjects for laying on of hands , and therefore does not understand this text , mat. . of that laying on of hands which follows baptism ; neither does mr. taylor himself believe that confirmation belongs to infants : if otherwise , they are very unfaithful , in that they were never known to lay hands upon any one infant for confirmation , as i can hear of . but how comes it to pass that mr. taylor will baptize infants , when yet he confesses their baptism is not mentioned in the new testament , and yet not plead for their confirmation , till they be capable to own their covenant made in baptism , when yet he pretends , ( tho i dare say he believes it not ) that text , mat. . , &c. is express for that laying on of hands which follows baptism , to be granted to christ to infants ? pag. . . mr. taylor says , that christ confirmed , or laid hands on the baptized . i shall entreat him to make this plain , for i would gladly see it well proved ; however , i am sure his doctrine orders it to be done , and that 's sufficient . what you say further here , is either what we oppose not , or what is answered elsewhere , save only your last particular , which now we shall consider . . their coming to christ ( say you ) is their becoming his disciples or proselites : suffer them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be proselites to me . if to this i should answer , with tertullian , veniant ergo dum adolescunt , &c. let them come therefore when they are grown up ; it will be thought too little , tho god knows ( how hasty soever men are to get them sprinkled ) they are slow enough to bring them to christ , when they are capable to be taught ; i will therefore answer further : do you think that when infants are brought to a priest to be sprinkled and crossed , that then they are brought to christ ? or can christians no other way bring their infants to christ ? or do no infants belong to christ , but those who are so brought ? these things will not be asserted , i think , yet let us go as far as we can by the light of the text. by this example of christ , i think the ministers of christ may lawfully pray for a blessing in behalf of all the infants of those that shall desire it ; and that it is well done in those parents that do desire the prayers of the church , or her ministers , for their infants . and this is as much as can be fairly urged from this text , as imitable for us . for the touching by our saviour's hands , may be a point too high for us , unless we will also touch the dead , &c. which ( i hope ) is not written for our example . but now if the minister will needs baptize my child , because i bring it into the congregation , and desire prayer to be made to god for his blessing upon it , he herein goes beyond the example of christ , and beyond the text , and therefore there i must leave him , his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notwithstanding . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ex verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quod est advenio quoniam veniebant , est ethnicis ad judaismum , saith the learned , and i think infants cannot change their religion , nor was it fit to call an infant of a jew , a proselite when it was brought to circumcision ; and consequently as improper to call the child of a christian a proselite . however , all that can lawfully be done to proselite an infant ( if you will needs have that term used ) is but to devote them to christ by prayers for his blessing , but not a syllable for baptizing them . mr. taylor 's argument . if the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant , then it entitles them to baptism : but the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant : therefore the faith of the parents entitles the children to baptism . answer . . the consequence of the major may well be denied : for tho it should be some ways true , that the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant , yet it follows not , that it entitles them to the performance of , or submission to the things which they understand not , nor are able to perform . and whither would such a consequence lead us , if we should follow it ? what duty should not infants be entitled to , as well as to baptism ? but let us see whether the minor be well proved ; you quote acts. . and think it a clear place to prove that the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant . but this text says not a word to that purpose ; for peter derives the title both of parents and children from the promise of god : and builds the title of all the called of the lord , and of them that were afar off also , upon the promise of god , and not upon the faith of abraham himself . besides , the promise here is of the gifts of the holy ghost , and therefore not pertinent to infants , as i have shewed : here is therefore no proof at all of your minor. i think it were better to say , that by faith a christian knows his child has an interest in the covenant of grace , than that his faith entitles his child to it . i fear this minor is a very dangerous assertion , and that partly because the consequence of such an opinion is to shut out all infants from the covenant of grace , who have not faithful parents to entitle them to it : and in truth it seems to swell with too much boldness , and carnal presumption ; but i spare you . . the faith of the jews and proselites did not entitle their children to the covenant of grace ; but they themselves being incorporate into that church-state , their children , by express command from god , had a title to legal priviledges : but the covenant of grace ( for that 's it we dispute , tho you leave out the word grace in your argument ) extended to infants by god's free redemption , which he purposed for them , in christ , from the foundation of the world ; or else what shall become of the many thousands of infants of unbelievers ? . you can never prove , that the faith of the jaylor , or lydia either , did entitle their infants to the covenant , for you cannot prove they had any children . and it is so exceeding plain , that all that were baptized in these two families were believers , that i wonder much that you should say , that on the believing of the jaylor and lydia , the whole families were baptized . pray read acts . . to the end , and you will find that they that were baptized , were actual believers , and capable of being consolated by the apostles . mr. taylor 's argument . those who are capable of the kingdom of heaven , are capable of baptism : but children are capable of the kingdom of heaven : therefore children are capable of baptism . answer . . the major being taken universally , for all that may go to heaven , it may very well be denied ; for mr. taylor dare not deny a capacity of salvation to some of the infants of the jews , and yet mr. taylor himself does not think they are capable of baptism ; for he makes the faith of the parents necessary to the entitling them to baptism , which in this case is wanting . . that the greater includes the less , is not universally true ; for women have a capacity to go to heaven , yet they have no capacity to be bishops , which is less than going to heaven . infants are not capable of the lord's table , which is less than to go to heaven . indeed , this argument being admitted to be good , would bring infants to all privileges in the church-militant , as well as to baptism ; for thus a man might argue : those who are capable of all the privileges of the church triumphant , are capable of all the privileges of the church militant , ( for the greater includes the less ) : but infants are capable of all privileges in the church triumphant ; ergo , &c. and if it be unreasonable ( as you say it is ) to deny the external sign , to those to whom christ hath granted the internal grace ; pray , why are you so unreasonable , as to deny your infants the sign of the lord's table , seeing you affirm they are regenerate , and born of water and the spirit ? but if you were put to prove , that infants , whom you sprinkle , have the inward grace which entitles to baptism , you would never be able to make demonstration to your own , or any wise man's satisfaction ; for is not the inward and spiritual grace , repentance , whereby sin is forsaken , and faith , whereby the promises of god are stedfastly believed ? and what infant did you ever know thus qualified for baptism ? mr. taylor 's argument . all who are believers , ought to be baptized : but children are believers : therefore children ought to be baptized . answer . . the minor proposition , that infants are believers , is not true . and i answer in the words of dr. hammond , who saith , ( letter of resolut . p. . ) i shall profess to be none of those that are concerned in the question , whether infants have faith ? i freely confess to believe , that faith is so necessarily founded in vnderstanding , that they that have not vnderstanding , cannot have faith , whether actual or habitual . and dr. jer. taylor tells us expresly , whether infants have faith ? is a question to be disputed by persons , that care not how much they say , and how little they prove . thus these two pillars of the church of england explode your argument , as an egregious error . . and for that place , mat. . , . by which you would prove infants believers , the learned of your own church expound it to a contrary sence , and take the little child that believeth , to be a true christian , that hath laid aside all worldly pride , whereby he is become abject in the sight of the world. i shall not contend with you about the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( professing my self no scholar ) tho ludovicus vives useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for an houshold-servant . but it is sufficient to my purpose , that you dare not say infants are actual believers ; ( nay , you confess , they have not actual faith : and for imputative faith , ( if there be any such thing ) yet it can be no rule for the baptizing any body , seeing it is not revealed to whom faith is imputed ; and whilst you say , god may esteem infants as believers , another may as well say , he may esteem them as baptized also ) ; i say , your granting infants have not actual faith , you can take the word , believeth , mat. . . only by the figure called prosopopoeia , if you will needs have the child an infant of days . and if it be good arguing from hence to the baptism of infants , then you may argue as strongly for baptizing the whole creation , ( if you can tell how ) for it is said to groan , expect , and wait for the manifestation of the sons of god , and to be delivered from the bondage of corruption . rom. . . we conclude then , that it is not a figurative faith , but an actual faith , ( at least by profession ) that entitles to the reception of baptism . . we do not say , that god will impute unbelief to infants , but only to those that refuse to believe ; and tho we know infants are not believers , yet we do not say or think they are unbelievers , they being not capable to sin against god in that case , or any else . and unbelief presupposes a capacity in the subject , and means sufficient , to believe , and yet the creature refuses to believe . the sin of unbelief therefore being no way chargeable upon any infant , it follows by necessary consequence , that they have no capacity for faith. neither do we pretend to judg mens hearts ; for tho god has ordered faith to be a pre-requisite to baptism , yet we are only to judg of the profession of faith , not of the sincerity of it . and as it is true , as you say , that infants cannot play the hypocrite ; so it 's true , they cannot play the christian , and therefore not fit for the duties of christians , of which baptism is one . mr. taylor 's argument . they who are capable of the ends of baptism , may be baptized : but children are capable of the ends of baptism : therefore they may be baptized . answer . . if by the ends of baptism , you mean the things which concern god's mercy in the redemption of man only , then the major is denied ; but if by the ends of baptism , you mean the things required on mans part , then the minor is not true ; for mortification and vivification are the ends of baptism on man's part , of which infants are not capable ; for they cannot put off the body of the sins of the flesh , nor have they any need so to do , neither can they rise to newness of life . and tho i grant , ( and have often said it ) that we ought to devote our children to god in the best manner we can ; yet to go beyond the word of the lord under that pretence , will neither profit us , nor our children . . what you say here , of baptism being a seal to infants , &c. is answered before . and surely the word heathen , ( so often used by you ) as it imports sometimes an enemy to god , ( yet being of it self of no ill signification ) infants are not so to be accounted heathens ; nor doth the word , christian , as it imports a follower of christ , belong to infants . so that this is only a noise of words , to talk that our infants are not distinguished from the infants of heathens , tho i have shewed a difference between them . mr. taylor 's argument . whom the church of christ ever received to baptism , may still be baptized : but the church of christ hath ever received children to baptism : therefore they may be baptized . answer . . the minor proposition is not true , and therefore i do deny , that the church hath always received infants to baptism . and indeed you do not so much as pretend any thing from the scriptures to prove it , but , before , do honestly confess , that infant-baptism is not mentioned in the new testament ; and therefore certainly it will be impossible to prove , that the church did always receive infants to baptism . and it is also very observable , that eusebius , who wrote the history of the church for four hundred years after christ , does not so much as mention infant-baptism at all . . but how then does mr. taylor prove his minor ? why , his chief author to that purpose is mr. walker , in his book called , a modest plea for infant-baptism ; which book in that part has been answered by mr. de-laune , to which i refer the reader . the sum of which answer is to prove , that all mr. walker's testimonies from antiquity for infant-baptism , for the first years after christ , are either invalid , or taken out of forged and spurious books . and it is more than sufficient to ballance mr. walker's and mr. taylor 's bold assertion , that the catholick church hath always received infants to baptism , by the contrary testimonies of ludovicus vives , and dr. barlow ; the first expresly saying , in old time none was brought to baptism , but he was of sufficient years to know what that mystical water meant , and to require his baptism , and that sundry times . the other tells us , there is neither precept nor practice in scripture for infant-baptism , nor any just evidence for it for about years after christ . . you say , that for many hundreds of years the question [ about infant-baptism ] was not moved . but this is a great mistake ; for tertullian did question it , as an unwarrantable practice , in the beginning of the third century ; as is shewed by mr. tombes , and others , who have diligently enquired into the ancient customs of the church . . the first instance which you bring for the practice of infant-baptism in our nation , is that in king ina's time , about the year ; but we can prove it was opposed by the britain bishops two hundred years before this . see fabian's chron. part . fol. . . you say , the deferring of baptism among the ancients , was not for their questioning infant-baptism . but sure , if they did think themselves too young to be baptized , at twenty or thirty years of age , they could with no reason think their children old enough for baptism at seven or eight days old . extremes have undone all ; they were too slow , and you are as much too quick . but the proper time for baptism is , when men attain to the new birth ; baptism is therefore rightly call'd the washing of regeneration . . you seem to hold , that infant-baptism was lawfully practised by god's people before christ , and even from the apostles time since christ : but i wonder by what law ; you give us none but mr. walker's book , which is very well answered by mr. de-laune , in his book entitled , truth defended . and i am sure , the best antiquity says nothing for you . mr. taylor 's argument . that doctrine which introduceth many vnchristian consequences , is erroneous : but the doctrine of the antipoedobaptists introduceth many vnchristian consequences : therefore the doctrine of the antipoedobaptists is erroneous . answer . . the minor proposition is not true ; for our doctrine in the case of baptism is true , and truth does not introduce any erronious consequences . now that our doctrine is true , appears thus : because it fully agrees with your text , mat. . . even as it is expounded by your self , in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , going to disciple all nations , instruct them in the principles of my religion ; and then , being disciples , baptize them . this you say , and this we say ; the only difference is , we do as we say , but you say and do not : you therefore must needs be in the error in this case . . but let us hear what you have against our doctrine . first , you say , it opposeth the whole current of scripture , nullifies many scripture-promises and privileges , and destroys the covenant of grace , as the premised pages manifest . but i hope the premised answers do manifest the charge which you bring against our doctrine to be very unjust . and seeing you are the men , and not we , that have changed the ordinance of baptism , you may justly fear the censure of the prophet , isa . . . for breaking the everlasting covenant . see the place , and consider it seriously . . you say , our doctrine introduceth the world into gentilism or heathenism , and makes christ's church always gathering , and never gathered . but how can you say this , seeing we are for the teaching or discipling all nations , and every person in the nations , as they are capable , and god gives his ministers opportunity ; and we take the same way to do this which the apostles used ; according to our ability ; i. e. to preach the gospel to every one that will hear us , and to bring up our children in the nurture and admonition of the lord ? and what tho the church be thus always gathering , does not mat. . , . warrant this practice to the end of the world ? and if you do not thus gather your children to christ , they will never be christians by your crossing and sprinkling them . . your talk of excluding infants from the covenant , is answered before , and proved untrue ; what you add , of our introducing of despair of the salvation of infants , shews your self-contradiction . for now you seem to make infant-baptism so necessary to salvation , that if they be not baptized , we must despair of their salvation : than which what can be a more erronious consequence of your doctrine of poedo-baptism ? . it is apparent that our doctrine makes the covenant established by christ better than yours ( whatever you say here to the contrary ) ; not only because we assert the grace of god in the business of salvation to extend to infants more generally than you do : but also for that it shews , god has not imposed any ceremonies upon them , as he did upon the jewish male infants of eight days old . whilst your doctrine makes your crossing and sprinkling them of such importance , as that if it be denied them , despair of the salvation of infants is genuinely introduced , pag. . as if god had tyed the salvation of all the infants in the world to a ceremony . thus does your doctrine make the covenant established by christ , worse than the law of moses ; for under it the greater part of the infants of the jews were saved , without being circumcised , to wit , all the females , and all the males under eight days old : but you have no hope for infants male or female , tho but of a day old , if it be not sealed with your pretended baptism . lord , whither will men go when they forsake thy word ! they will make christ an impostor , if infants be not capable of baptism : see mr. taylor 's book , pag. . n. . . you say , our doctrine equals the children of christians with the children of turks , &c. but we have shewed the advantage to be on the part of the children of christians . and what if god , willing to magnify his mercy and goodness , has provided a saviour for the innocent babes ( dying in infancy ) throughout the world ? what need this trouble any body ? must our eye be evil , because his is thus bountiful ? we know that he hath concluded all under sin , that he might have mercy upon all . and if god hath not mercy on poor dying infants , so as to save them all by christ , pray shew what mercy he hath upon them ? sure it had been a mercy they had never been born , but not one iota of mercy to be born , only to cry , dye , and go to hell. can you think that such doctrine befriends the covenant of grace ? i think not . . to what you say ( or have said ) about the form of baptism , you much mistake us if you think we do not baptize in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . the article of our faith , which you point to , was not written ( as i conceive ) to teach any to dispense baptism in different forms of words , but to shew that the name of son is to be taken , as he is our lord and saviour . yet let me tell you , that i can shew it under the hand of some now in your ministry , that says matth. . . does not impower any to use that form of words in baptism , and shews also that the learned are not agreed in that matter . however , i am one with you , as to the use of the form there set down , and no other . of the manner of using baptismal water . . mr. taylor grants , the mode of baptizing is laid down by our saviour , and expressed in the word baptizontes , baptizing them , mat. . . now this is very well , and i am glad he has done this holy ordinance so much right , as to acknowledg christ to lay down ( in his commission mat. . . ) the manner or mode in which it ought to be performed . but then , i am sorry to see my good friend so soon forget himself , as in the very next page to tell us , that the mode of baptizing is an indifferent thing ; left to the prudence of the church , whether to dip or sprinkle . neither of them being commanded , nor either of them absolutely forbidden by the precept of baptizing . what shall i say to this ? if baptizontes be the precept for baptizing , and yet commands nothing , neither to dip nor to sprinkle , nor absolutely forbids either , sure then we keep no command in doing either , nor do we break any in omitting both . pity it is , that men to uphold their own tradition , should thus fight against both scripture and reason . for , if our saviour , by the words baptizing them , command nothing , then its best to do nothing ; if he command both dipping and sprinkling , then both must be done ; if he command but one of these , then but one of them must be done : let him chuse which he will , he must chuse but one . but yet he tells us otherwise , pag. . for saith he , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equally admits of both significations , as is granted by the best criticks : and quotes chiefly mr. walker's doct. of bapt. p. . to p. . for answer , i say , if the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do equally signify dip and sprinkle , then unless we will be unequal we must do both ; or else shew which of them may lawfully be omitted . as for mr. walker's book , i have seen it , and observed that he plays with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , till he makes their signification altogether uncertain , and sets the learned together by the ears about the meaning of these greek words . and indeed , according to mr. walker , no man can certainly know when he hits right upon the thing to be done in obedience to this precept , baptizing them . as if our lord should leave his apostles , and they leave us to guess at his meaning ; in a passage wherein he commands nothing certainly . and yet to go round again , however we use water in the name , &c. we can hardly go besides the meaning of christ : for if we dip the subject in the element of water , we are right ; if we sprinkle it upon any part of the body , ( for you can assign no one part more than the other ) we are right still ; if we dip the head only , or only the foot , we are right ; if the head , or breast , or hand only be sprinkled , still we are right . now who can think , that our saviour should use an ambiguous word , which is to guide us in matter of fact ? do not men that thus deal with the word baptize , make him the author of all our contests in this case ? and assuredly mr. walker has run many a one into a maze , about the meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and i am sorry to see mr. taylor to follow him . but sith he refers me also to mr. leigh's crit. sac. he shall do well to mark what he saith ( even as quoted by mr. walker , p. . ) the reason ( says he ) why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put pro lotione & mundatione , is , because such as are immersed ( that is , dipped ) come out of the water washed or cleansed . so then , to baptize , is to dip the subject in the element in the name , &c. and that which is no small , but a most importent confirmation of that mode ( and only that ) is the baptism of christ's own person ; for mr. walker cannot deny , that the greek in mark . . being rightly rendred in english , is thus read ; jesus came — and was baptized of john into jordan , and therefore he may be confident he was not sprinkled , for it would be nonsence to say he was sprinkled into jordan ; but good sence and plain truth too , to say he was dipped into jordan . and yet for all this , mr. walker fights stoutly both against truth and reason , leaning only upon the single authority of bernard , and will have sprinkling to be meant or signified by the word baptize , as well as dipping . and mr. taylor says the same , tho many learned writers contradict them both . but it shall suffice here to set down two , both equal in learning and vertue to these our present opposites . the first shall be that truly famous man , dr. jer. taylor , in his rule of conscience , l. . c. . if you would attend to the signification of the word , baptism signifies plunging in water , or dipping with washing . and saith keckerman , immersion not aspersion ( that is , dipping not sprinkling ) was the first institution of baptism , as it doth plainly appear from rom. . . syst . theol. but for all this , mr. walker pretends antiquity for sprinkling , and it is strange to see what learned men will say , when they are set to defend error . we will but touch two of his most ancient instances , that you may see the bottom of the business . . he goes as high as the second century , and takes an instance of sprinkling from the service of the daemons ( that is , devil-gods ) but why so ? because he supposes the heathen used sprinkling in the service of their daemons , in imitation of the christians practice . but the truth is , it 's more to be feared , that unwary christians did fall to imitate the heathens ; for we are told so in effect , even by a learned popish author , which for the plainness of the testimony , i will here faithfully transcribe . he saith , — this chief chair of the church being translated from antioch to rome : he [ peter ] and his successors , were very careful and vigilent to reduce the christian religion ( being as yet indigested , unpolished , and little practised ) and the professors thereof , into better order and vniformity , out of the law of moses ( which christ came not to abolish , but to fulfil ) out of the civil and politick government of romans , greeks and egyptians , and out of both sacred and prophane rites , laws , and ceremonies of other nations , but most especially by the wholsom doctrine and direction of christ jesus , and the inspiration of the holy spirit . see a book called , the manners , laws and customs of all nations , pag. . behold here the springs of human inventions and ceremonies . mr. walker's second instance , is a story of one sprinkled with sand , instead of water ( the water being scarce , and the party like to dye ) : but alas they could not dip the sick into the sand , and however their zeal may be commended , their action is not to be commended at all : it shews their folly , for it 's better to be without a ceremony , when we cannot possibly have it in god's way , than to set up our own devices in the stead , and place , and use of it . for i will ( saith god ) have mercy and not sacrifice . and thus we shall leave mr. walker to consider his sandy foundation for his sprinkling infants . . mr. taylor says , sprinkling cannot nullify baptism , and therefore our dissenting brethren are to blame , to make our baptism to be essentially corrupted , and not to be accounted baptism , because not performed by dipping . to this i answer ; when our saviour commanded to baptize , he commanded but one , not divers kinds of actions ; and to do that , which is not only contrary to his own blessed example in this very thing , but also such an act as cannot with any equity of speech , or good sence , be called baptism , is to err essentially in the performance of it . and so great is the difference between dipping and sprinkling , that such as sprinkle infants dare not speak as they act , when they pretend to baptize : no , they dare not say , i sprinkle thee in the name of the father , &c. which they might well say , if the word baptize does equally signify dipping and sprinkling . we are not therefore to blame , to labour to have this ordinance kept as it was delivered , for sure if it be our duty to keep god's ordinances , it 's our duty to keep them as they were observed by christ , and the primitive churches . and so far as the manner of doing this command of christ is essential to the ordinance , dipping is of the essence of it , without which it cannot be called baptism . again , all the scriptures which command to baptize , do expresly command to dip the party to be baptized , and therefore mr. taylor is to blame , to say , there is not one place of scripture which in express words commands dipping , pag. . yea , sir , your text , matth. . . commands dipping : for were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated into plain english , it must be rendred by dipping . and i pray sir , consider , whether you could not with a good conscience translate it so ? and on the other side , whether your conscience would not accuse you , should you translate the text , teach all nations , sprinkling them ? i dare say no man dare thus read the text. why then do they thus act ? shall we speak one thing , and do another ? so speak ye , and so do ye , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty ; to wit , the gospel . . what you urge from the legal washings , has been answered by the learned of our way , and particularly by mr. danvers , who says , i have carefully examined all the places in the old testament , where the word dipping or baptizing is mentioned , and do find it is expressed by the hebrew word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as minceus and dr. hammond observe . the septuagint do render the word tabal in the hebrew , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and with all the translators , both the latin , dutch , italian , french , and english , do translate to dip ; the word rendred washing , being another word , as the following scriptures inform you , gen. . . exod. . . lev. . . & . . & . , . levit. . . deut. . . john . . numb . . . kings . . i cannot think therefore , that you can conscionably parallel rom. . , . col. . . with the jewish washings , which are expressed by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as mr. danvers further shews . ) and sure i am , that rom. . and col. . is so very clear for our way of baptizing , that the learned of your way do grant these places allude to the ancient way of baptizing , which ( say they ) was by dipping the party into the water . . what you say of your sprinkling to be as significant as dipping , is not true ; for indeed unless it be commanded to signify the death , burial , resurrection of christ , and our mortification and vivification , it can signify none of these things . otherwise every time you wash your hands , might signify what is signified in your baptism ; yet you will not say it doth so . and the same answer may serve to what you say , of sprinkling and dipping , being equally obliging ; for unless god hath given them to oblige , they have no obliging nature or virtue in them . . what you say of the searcity of water , can be no plea for you that have no want of it , whatever it may be for them that have it not . but sure , where god gives not straw , he will require no brick . he does not make baptism so necessary , that we shall perish if we cannot , but rather if we will not obey him therein . . your surmise , that dipping seems an indecent thing , is indecently said , both by mr. walker , and your self , seeing it may be done as decently as your sprinkling ; for your talk of transparent garments , shews your unacquaintedness with the right way of baptizing . and know this , your ruffling ladies in their gorgeous apparel , may work upon your pravity of heart sooner , than to behold and humble penitent sinner , cloathed in comely , tho mean garments , to be buried with christ by baptism . . to your objection about the coldness of the climate , you need but put on the garment of love to god and his truth , and act from a principle of faith , and you need fear no ill , tho this path may seem to you as the valley of the shadow of death . yet if any person be really weak of body , and cannot be satisfied to delay , ( as i confess that may be dangerous ) there may such care be taken , as in the eye of reason no inconvenience need be feared . and if the water be frozen , ( as you object ) surely he that will allow us to thaw that for our natural , will not blame us , if we do so for our spiritual use . . does plunging or dipping take away the understanding ? why , not more now than in christ's time. and is it so necessary that the understanding act in the duty ? i marvel then why you baptize persons ( as you call it ) when they are asleep . . what you say of the great labour of dipping , and the impossibility for one man to baptize in one day , and that it is therefore unreasonable to think the apostles did dip all that they baptized , &c. i answer ; first , you grant then , that they dipped some that they baptized ; prove now that they sprinkled so much as one , and the dispute is at an end . secondly , but sir , what need was there for one man only to baptize the three thousand ? acts . . does not mr. walker himself suppose , that there were of the hundred and twenty disciples , eighty two in a ministerial capacity , to wit , the seventy two , besides the apostles ? surely they might easily baptize three thousand in a few hours . but you will now prove the lawfulness and reasonableness of sprinkling ; let us hear what you say . . you now make sprinkling not only equally signified in the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but to be more congruous with its genuine signification ; your reason is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being a derivative , can admit of no larger signification than its primitive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we find ( say you ) in the history of nebuchadnezzar , when like a beast , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he was wet with the dew of heaven . but for answer ; . i say , this place in dan. . will never prove , that sprinkling is more congruous to the genuine signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than dipping : for nebuchadnezzar being seven years to live with beasts , out of habitation or house , was sufficiently washed , especially being probably naked too ; so that this kind of wetting holds some resemblance with plunging in water , there being no part free from the water thus rained upon nebuchadnezzar : in which respect , it seems , the septuagint renders or expresses his lying open to the snow , hail , rain , or dew , so long a time , by the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and , . my answer is , that the greek here is hyperbolical , and not properly to be understood ; and our translators knowing this , did not ( as i suppose ) translate the word according to its proper signification , our language not well bearing it in that case , but according to the thing which was to befall nebuchadnezzar . and it seems very disingenuous , for you to conclude from this hyperbole , that sprinkling is more congruous to the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than dipping , tho in so saying you contradict most of the learned that have interpreted the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and i am sure , ( and you know it much better than i can tell you , for my learning is nothing , when compared with yours , ) that our lexicons , dictionaries , and grammars , do make the prime signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a dipping , as they do who dye colours ; and scapula does not make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to signify sprinkling at all . . what you say in your d , d , th , and th . particulars , is answered before ; but here you say , the church was never confined to that mode of dipping , but had several ways of baptizing , dipping , or sprinkling , &c. i answer : what usages the church has had , is not the question ; but the ground of her doings is the matter of our enquiry : but yet i will venture to say , she was always confined to dip , if she kept that ordinance according to christ's own example , which i think is a better expositor of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than any lexicon in the world. . the alteration of the manner of this ordinance , has not only occasioned us to say , you that only cross and sprinkle are not baptized ; but the muscovites declare the latin church to be unbaptized for the same reason . for this you may read daille on the fathers , lib. . p. . where he tells us ; the custom of the ancient church was to plunge those they baptized over head and ears in water , as tertullian , cyprian , and epiphanius testify . and this is still the practice of the greek and russian cnurch at this day , as cassander de baptismo , pag. . and yet notwithstanding this custom is now abolished by the church of rome ; and this is the reason why the muscovites say that the latines are not rightly and duly baptized . thus he . nor is this the only cause why we think your pretended baptism a nullity , for your error about the subject is more than the other . . what you say further is , to make us believe that christ did not go into the water ; that the eunuch went to the water only , because the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies ad , to . but your conscience will tell you , it signifies into , as well as to ; and indeed you grant it : and then to what putpose do you quarrel our translation ? however , we have proved that christ was baptized in the river : and 't is expresly said of the many thousands which came to jordan , that they were all baptized in the river , confessing their sins . now , sir , here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cannot be rendred to the river , nor with the river , ( without egregious folly ) and then 't is very plain , that they were all dipped in the river ; for it had been absolute folly to go into the river to sprinkle the face , hand , or any other part of the body . seeing then they went into the river to baptize , it shews it cannot rightly be done without going into the water : and therefore of necessity we must understand , dipping is the only true mode of baptizing . . i marvel how any wise man can look upon that text , john . . john baptized in enon , — because there was much water there , and so much as think sprinkling to be a lawful way of baptizing . if he will use any of his wit , he cannot but infer , baptism could not be rightly done with a few drops of water , seein john chose enon , because there was much water there . and what tho 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signify many waters ? yet it does not signify many rivers ; but by the noise of many waters , is often meant the noise of much water in one source or channel . however , you say , the greek signifies the confluence of these two springs , jordan and jaboc ; but yet you are unwilling that they should yield so much water as might suffice to dip in . and yet the scripture tells you elsewhere , that jordan overflows all her banks at certain times ; and lithgow , that was at it , will give you an account , that it is a river sufficient to dip a bigger man than your self in . but here , you say , is no mention of dipping . yes , sir , but there is ; for when you hear , that john was baptizing in enon , he was either dipping or sprinkling . the latter would make the speech absurd and nonsensical ; the former therefore was his business , for he was dipping in enon , near salem , because there was much water there . your church therefore is very much to blame , in leaving the way of truth , and following her own tradition , and is therefore the cause of our present disunion , and will be till she turn to the truth , both in the subject and manner of baptism , or at least forbear to impose upon us without authority from heaven . what you add , by way of answer to some of our objections against infant baptism , is answered in my reply to dr. stillingfleet , and mr. j. barret , which is bound up with my book of primitive christianity , and to that i will refer you . what you add about sureties or god-fathers , &c. i shall not take notice of at this time , and indeed the usage is so odd , that dr. jer. taylor well said , if it had been god's will to have had them , it is to be supposed he would have given them commission to have transacted the solemnity with better circumstances , and given answers with more truth ; for if the god fathers answer in the name of the child ( i do believe ) it is notorious , they speak false and ridiculously . and this is even enough to say to such an innovation : but what absurdity is it , which being once made a cannon by learned men , will not find some to daub it up with untempered mortar ? could men but remember nadab and abihu , lev. . they would fear to add to , or take from the ordinances of christ , under what pretence of piety or prudence soever . thus sir , i have briefly answered your arguments , and hope i have not mistaken your sence in any passage i except against . and for a conclusion , i crave leave to say , that the way to obtain that unity which is so desirable , between the baptized believers and the church of england , is not to fall to it by disputation , but by proposing what abatements may be made about such things as are not mentioned in the scripture , ( as this of poedo-baptism ) is not ) or at least what mitigation may be hoped for , as to the imposition of such things : and on the other side , i trust in the lord that you shall call for nothing from us , wherein we may submit without sinning against god , but we shall gladly hearken to you . in the mean time , constant prayer to god for the blessing of truth and peace , and friendly conference between the leading men on both parts , may do much to further so good a work , specially if his majesty would be graciously pleased to permit such friendly treaties . but of writing many books there is no end . sect . iv. a plea for the church-assemblies of the baptized believers . many and very great has been the sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation , since the publication of the act , entitled , an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles . and if the meaning of the said act be to restrict all christian assemblies , ( except the parochial ) to the number of four persons , besides the families where they do assemble , we see not how we can , with safety to our souls , conform to the limits thereby prescribed . but forasmuch as the said act pretends only the prevention and suppression of seditious conventicles , we humbly conceive , that those who are free from seditious designs in their meeting together to worship god , are rationally acquitted from the imputation of sedition ; and consequently no man can conscienciously prosecute any of us upon that statute , being utterly unable to prove any such crime against us ; nor could any ever yet convict us of such an evil , nor , by the grace of god , shall they ( i hope ) ever be able to do it . upon a due enquiry it will evidently appear , that it is the lord himself that hath ordered his people to convene or congregate , for the better discharge of the great duties of prayer , preaching , and the celebration of other his holy ordinances ; to which holy ends he has allowed , not four persons only , but the whole church , in any town or city , to come together into one place , among whom also such as do not believe the gospel , are allowed to appear , in order to their illumination , and this without any limitation in respect of number : so that it seems to exceed the due bounds of humane power , to use restraint , where god hath given such gracious liberty . cor. . , , . jam. . , . heb. . . forasmuch then as god has not given any power upon earth , to forbid any christian , or such as desire to know christ , to hear his word at any time , or in any place ; but on the contrary , commands every man that hath an ear , to hear what the spirit saith unto the churches , rev. . . saying , to day if ye will hear his voice , harden not your hearts , psal . . . proclaiming to every one that thirsteth , to come and take of the waters of life freely : isa . . . to whose gracious invitation the spirit and the bride ( the church ) agreeth , saying , come , rev. . . it must needs be very dangerous for any man to say , do not come , when they desire to drink of these living waters , which flow in the lively preaching of the gospel of christ . and how can we think that our gracious god , who in things pertaining to this life , will not allow us to say to our neighbour , go away , and come again to morrow , and i will give , when we have it by us , prov. . , . will ever accept us with a well-done , good and faithful servant , if in the more weighty matters of his law we put men off with delatory answers ? behold , now is the accepted time ; behold , now is the day of salvation . it must be granted , that the church is the light of the world , a city set upon a hill , that cannot be hid ; whilst therefore we are conscionably , and ( we trust ) groundedly persuaded , that we are a part of this church , a necessity lieth upon us , to make manifest the savour of the knowledg of christ in every place . for as it was truly said to christ , that no man doth any thing in secret , and himself desires to be known openly : so neither must the church of christ obscure her light by a secret profession of christianity , lest she contradict her own prayer , and the practice of the primitive churches , held forth in these words : god be merciful to us , and bless us , and cause his face to shine upon us , that his way may be known upon the earth , and his saving-health among all nations . and now , lord , behold their threatnings , and grant unto thy servants , that with all boldness they may speak thy word . — and they spake the word with boldness . — and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb , by the word of their testimony ; and they loved not their lives unto the death . — and became followers of the churches of god , having received the word in much affliction , with joy of the holy-ghost . and if for the like faithful testimony we must still suffer , as we have done , we shall rejoyce , as christ hath exhorted us . the church is taught of god to hold fast , not her faith only , but also the profession of her faith ; and this not by starts and girds , as men give them license or toleration , but with all constancy , and without wavering . and surely our lord foreseeing , and by his apostles foreshewing what would come to pass , required that this profession be held without wavering in the business of church-assembling , heb. . . because without such assemblies , the whole service of god ( in a church-way ) is like to fall to the ground . this duty , as it is of greatest importance , so it is founded upon heavens authority : forsake not the assembling of your selves together . and it is granted by the learned protestants , that against the law of god or nature no contrary custom doth ever prevail . [ dr. field of the church , lib. . ] he that doth any thing by command from the king , contrary to the command of god , does not fear god , ( saith dr. savage , chaplain to k. charles ii , in his dew of hermon , p. , to . ) and , speaking of the first preachers of the gospel , he saith , their rulers enjoined them not to preach christ , and therein they did well to disobey ; for otherwise they had not feared god , inasmuch as tho their rulers were above them , yet god was above them both . — for in commanding any thing contrary to the word and will of god , they abuse their power , either through their ignorance or wilfulness ; and in that case meerly passive obedience is to be yielded . these latter sentences are the more remarkable , being written by one of his majesties chaplains , in answer to a book written by the baptized believers in this age , entitled , sion's groans for her distressed ; which book , whilst he pretends to confute , he has confirmed it , in the main scope and intent of it . as it is impossible , by mulcts and penalties to overcome the faithful professors of the truth , ( for that which is of god , men cannot overthrow , acts . . ) so neither will those that are zealous for error , be vanquished by that way . and the mischief is , their errors are by their sufferings made the more taking with those of weak judgments . what then is the result of persecution for religion ? is it not commonly this , that the hypocrites or time-servers do fill that church which has the power of the magistrate on her side ? and suppose she have the truth on her side , yet those temporizers come not to her communion for the truths sake , and therefore cannot be a blessing to her , nor she to them ; nay , these shall , the soonest of all others , betray her , when ever time shall minister occasion ; for those who are not true to god , and their own conscience , will never be faithful to men. they worship not the king of heaven , but the earthly crown and scepter , much like euripus , carried headlong sometimes this way , sometimes that way . socrat. lib. . cap. . but , shortly , to sum up what is or might be further said in this case . . to restrict our assemblies to the limits of the said act , is to obey man rather than god , who gives liberty , without limiting the numbers of those that meet , to worship him in a church-way . and whilst we believe our assemblies are true churches , we must endeavour to meet in god's way , whoever countermands it . . for thus to limit our assemblies to the number of four ; will certainly destroy all our church-assemblies : for , suppose some congregation or church consist but of an hundred persons , these being divided into fours , have no church-assembly , unless every of these four be a church . and if the magistrate have just power to divide us into fours or fives , he has power to subdivide us into two's , and by consequence to dissolve all our assemblies . i confess , a small number may constitute a true church . gregory thaumaturgus , tho a bishop , had a church consisting but of seventeen persons . [ basil . de spirit . sanct. cap. . ] our saviour has promised his presence , where two or three are met together in his name . but then in his name , signifieth in his authority , and according to his appointment . now christ has no where appointed , that four , and no more , should come together into one house or place ; no , tho an hundred persons be come together , if more do come , they cannot be prohibited by all that power which god has given to man , as we have shewed . . our zealous country-men of the parochial way , would think it very unlawful to be limited in their meetings to fours or fives ; and yet they ought to be restrain'd from seditious practices as well as others ; and we do by as good right think it unlawful for us to be so restrained . we hope our legislators did not intend at all to exalt their authority against the lord , whose power is above all . but yet when these laws come to be executed upon good men , by the industry of mercenary fellows , meerly for worshipping god , then are they turned into snares to the ruin of the innocent , and dishonour of that power which gave them being . and all this falls out , for want of better provision in the said laws , to convict men of sedition , than only because they were observ'd to preach or pray . . wherefore , being fully satisfied that our assemblies are true church-assemblies , and that upon the strictest enquiry we are able to make into the due nature and order of such assemblies , we conceive our selves indispensibly bound by the word of god , the examples of the first and best churches , and the tie of conscience , as regulated by a sincere love of religion , to hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering or changing , by reason of the change of times , or man's laws . being also rationally persuaded , that the more publick and free men are to serve the lord , the less danger of sedition . wherefore , with innocent hearts , and pure hands , ( as to any design of sedition ) in the strength of christ , we will keep his way , and let the lord do with us as seemeth him good . sect . v. of the baptized believers call to christianity , and to the work of the ministry . when our saviour commanded his apostles to teach all nations , and to preach the gospel to every creature , we do not doubt but their performance of this his gracious will , may truly be said to be the calling of the gentiles , or nations : and that men enjoy a great mercy ( for which they ought to be very thankful ) to be born in a nation to whom the gospel has been preached , and received by their progenitors : and that it is also a great blessing to be born under the government of christian princes ; and we believe we ought to love and honour our nation , and the rulers of it , upon this very account ( as well as for the obligation of nature and laws ) viz. because they assert the interest of christ jesus in general as well as we . nor is it our business to destroy the state of christianity received in any nation ; nor at all to despise the ministry that conscientiously upholds it ( but only to labour that christianity may be delivered from the errors that have encumbred it , by reason of the change of governments and interests , or corruptions of the ages past . ) and in this consideration , as we look upon our nation to be a christian nation ; so we count our selves much more happy in being members of a nation that owns the true god , christ jesus to be the saviour of the world , the scriptures to be holy and true , and that faith and holiness is the way to true blessedness , than to have been of any other nation whatsoever . but yet for all this there is a great truth in the words of tertullian , i. e. we are not born , but made christians . and therefore , we do not think that our meer birth of christian parents does qualify us , or give us an actual right to christ's ordinances ; but to this end we believe , and know , that every person ought to have the gospel preached , or some way made known to them , and that a work of real grace ( or the new birth ) at least by a solemn profession , must precede our baptismal covenant ; to this the scriptures give full consent , john . , . cor. . . eph. . . pet. . . and thus we , and ours ( so many of them as the lord our god does call by the preaching of the gospel ) are actually incorporate with the church of christ militant , and engaged thenceforth in the high and holy calling , and actual profession of the christian religion . . but now , whether we have any lawful call to the work of the ministry , is the business to be a little considered , partly , for that some of our late persecutors were pleased to suggest the contrary ; and partly to put our selves upon the strictest trial , even in this case where we are supposed to be the most deficient . the questions in this case to be resolved , are , . whether a succession of ordination from man to man , down from some of the apostles , be absolutely necessary to a due call to the ministry ? or , . whether the same means that is of authority sufficient to make men christians , be not also sufficient to make ministers ? in answer to these questions , we shall do little more than offer what we have formerly written upon this subject . and tho the papists are the men who stand most stifly for succession , as necessary , yet of late we find our friends of the church of england looking that way , as if they would justify their ordination in a successive line from man to man , through the papacy : which thing is disclaimed by dr. luther , with the greatest vehemency , in these words . whoso loveth christ , ought to endure any thing , rather than to be ordained by the papists ; because in their ordinations all things are carried with such wicked preposterousness , that if they were not mad , and blind , they would perceive how they mock god to his face ; — being stricken with an universal blindness , they do not so much as know the word of god , specially the bishops who ordain . — let me be counted a fool , a knave , a lyer , if there be any one of them , ordain'd by them , who dare say , that at such time as he received orders , he was commanded to dispense the mysteries of christ , or to teach the gospel , — but they ordain sacrificers of the unbloody sacrifice of the mass , and to hear confessions , &c. thus far luther . and the oath which they take at their ordination ( as set down by mr. bullinger ) is very un-gospel-like , the sum of it is in these words , that the priest will be a true subject to the pope , obey the decrees of the fathers , and of the church ( i. e. the roman church ) and that he will persecute hereticks . beza censures all ordination taken from the papists . let us hear him speak . what ordinary vocation is that which you say the first reformers had , excepting some few of them , is it not the pall ? shall we think then , that the popish orders are valid , in which there is not any preceding enquiry into manners ? no such enquiry or procedure , as is inviolably to be made , or observed , by divine right in elections , and ordinations , — shall we think so highly of their ordinations , that as often as any false bishops are converted to true christianity , immediately all the filth , uncleanness , and impurity , collated , is washed away ? nay , but with what face or conscience will he be able to forsake popery , and not abjure his irregular ordination ? or if he do abjure it , how can he by virtue thereof claim authority to teach ? thus these two pillars of the protestant reformation , are so far from deriving their call to the ministry , through the papacy ( as some late protestants pretend to do ) that they do utterly reject any ordination which comes from them . nor was luther and beza ordained after they came from the papists . ( mr. stub's occas . quaer . ) but beza is said to defend his call to the ministry , by instances of those that were called extraordinarily , as isaiah , daniel , amos , zecharias , &c. these things premised , we may assume , that either of these ways ( as approved by our reformers respectively ) could we go to defend our call to the ministry , as well as they : being first , many of us , ordained by those who received ordination from you , and some may run with you to bishop cranmer , who was ordained by the papacy ; and then proceed , till we come up to clemens , or lucius , and so to st. peter . and as for the pretence of beza , or luther , about their extraordinary call , it 's not impossible for us to give as fair a demonstration of it , as either of them , ( specially if we take the rules given by mr. beza , to judg of such a call by , to be cogent , viz. good life , sound doctrine , and the election of the people . ) but to be plain , we do not very well like either of these ways . not the first , it is so sordid , as that the papists themselves in deriving their call through the papacy , are forced to take it from so many false pretended popes , or diabolical popes , even witches and devils incarnate ( by their own confession ) that they make but a lamentable succession of it in the end . and especially , if stapleton may be regarded ( tho a papist ) who tells us , that it is not a bare and personal succession , but lawful succession , which is a note of a true church ; and defineth that to be lawful succession , when not only the latter succeeds into the void rooms of those that went before them , being lawfully called thereunto , but also hold the faith which their predecessors did . now let this rule be honestly stood by , and we are sure the papists shall never be able to prove a succession of many points of their faith , and doctrines from the apostles , whilst the world stands , and consequently neither can the protestants derive a lawful succession from them . we like not the second way , for we will not compare with isaiah , daniel , amos , nor zechariah , in respect of their immediate mission . but this we say , that our call to the ministry is no otherwise extraordinary , than our call to believe the gospel is so ; or , as it stands clear from all the idle ceremonies used by papists , or others in their ordinations , or as it is ordered ( as near as we can ) according to the word of god. and is the sacred word of power to beget us to god , and by the assistance of his spirit to make us his children , or christians ? and is it not of power or authority sufficient to enable us to worship god in his own ordinances , which were made for christians , and not christians for them ? this seems justly ridiculous . we make no doubt but that it 's easy with god ( and no extraordinary thing ) to raise a people to himself , in a nation where all have corrupted the way of christianity , ( or lost the state and praise of a true church ) meerly through his blessing upon the reading and diligent searching of the scriptures , ( i speak of a nation where the scriptures are received , as that is our case . ) the truth is , all the ways of god's worship , are ( in the word ) made ready for us , and laid at our doors , and we do but take up gladly , what others let lie as useless things , that they may hug their own devices . but now to silence a papist for ever ( which some will think to be a difficult undertaking ) ; do they not allow ( even by the pen of the learned bellarmine , chap. . ) that even an heathen , that is not baptized , may administer baptism in case of necessity ? and this they esteem a valid baptism . and why then may not we , when god hath opened our eyes to see any other truth , as well as that , enter upon the dutiful observance of it in the best way we can , our circumstances ( especially the case of necessity ) being considered ? for is not necessity as good a warrant to take up the practice of , or to restore one truth as well as another ? certainly , one ordinance is as sacred as another , and where churches are setled , ought to be dispensed in the most honourable way , and by the most fit instruments , even christ's ministers . wherefore , till the papists shall recal their opinion about baptism , and prove a succession as necessary to baptism as ordination , they can with no shew of reason , insist upon the necessity of ordination to be founded upon succession . but further , it 's evident from the scriptures , ( acts . ) that a succession is not necessary to true ordination ; for tho the apostles were yet living , it was not thought necessary that they should impose hands upon barnabas and paul : but this is done by gifted men , or the prophets that were in the church at antioch . the only question here to be resolved is , whether this laying on of hands was for ordination ? the papists do hold it was ; some protestants deny it ; but some protestants do affirm it . mr. churchman , in his history of episcopacy , tells out of chrysostom , that tho paul was an apostle neither of men , nor by men , yet as for the work to which he was separated , ask the said father ( saith he ) and he will tell you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was the office of an apostle , and that he was ordained an apostle here , that he might preach the gospel with greater pewer , — and certainly that he had not the apostleship before , may be made manifest by that which followed after . but tho some protestants doubt whether this were paul's ordination ( tho the matter is clear of it self ) yet here is the ordination of barnabas without all question ; and then it is evident that there was an interruption of succession in the case of ordination , even in the apostles days , and therefore by no means to be held to be necessary in our days , who are so far removed from the times of the holy apostles , that in vain do men think to find a clear and undoubted succession , of any one ordinance from them . wherefore we may safely conclude , that where the truth of the gospel is received , with the gifts of god's spirit ( as that was the case at antioch ) there is a sufficiency of power on the persons so gifted , with the advice of the church to send forth , or appoint men to the work of the ministry ; altho 't is true , this course is most warrantable in the case of necessity , and in no wise to be done in contempt or wilful neglect of that way , which is more ordinary and regular . howbeit , to tye all power of ordination so strictly to the persons of men ordained , by such as were ordained by the apostles themselves , would in all likelihood throw the power of ordination out of the church of god at this day ; especially if we stand upon the due election and qualification of persons so claiming succession from the apostles themselves . and because due qualifications , and election , is as necessary to a true minister of christ , as ordination , seeing it 's most certain , that unless god do first make men ministers , it 's impossible for the church ( rightly ) to make them ministers . we shall here add , that besides his moral vertues , and spiritual gifts , he that is regularly called to the ministry , must first be a true member of the church , and chosen by a true church to that sacred employment . and then we may boldly ( yet modestly ) suppose , that true ordination ( at least in some part of it ) is only found in the congregations of baptized believers at this day : for , where true baptism is not , ordination cannot be regular . again , due election is found amongst them , whilst neglected both by papists , and prelatists . and further , the true form and order of ordination is found in our churches . the first is evident of it self , no baptism , no due ordination ; is a truth without exception among all that own ordination . and for the second , 't is certain none are ordained to any office in the baptized churches , till elected by the consent of the church , or the major part , to whom they are to minister . and herein they follow the footsteps of the apostles , acts . when one must be chosen in the room of judas , the , which was the whole assembly , allowed the choice of two : and good reason there is , that where all are equally concerned , they should all be satisfied in the choice of such , as to whom they commit the care and feeding of their souls . when the seven deacons were to be ordained , the whole church is consulted , acts . and the election made by them who knew the qualification of the persons . and as holy scripture , so antiquity stands with us in this case . the nicene council , writing their minds to the church at alexandria , concerning some that were to succeed other bishops , gives these directions : if so be they shall seem to be worthy , and the people shall chuse them . what rules were to be observed in respect of their worthiness for ministerial employment , may be gathered from clement , epist . ad corinth . having ( saith he ) made trial of them by the spirit , to be bishops and deacons . and again , others well approved of , should succeed into the office and ministry , who therefore have been constituted , — by famous and discreet men , with the good liking and consent of all the church , — and who withal , have of a long time had a good testimony from all men. leo gives the same direction ( epist . . c. . ) charging , that none be ordained against the wills and petitions of the people : and again , epist . . the custom was that he should be chosen of all , that was to be over all , and wills , that the liking of the people and their testimony be sought : that in ordinations , the rules of the apostles and fathers ought to be observed ; that he that is to be over the church , should not only have the allowance of the faithful , but the testimony also of them that are without . cyprian is as clear for us , ( ep. l. . ) the people who full well and perfectly know the life of him that is to be ordained bishop , are to be present , and to be chosen with their allowance , who know the conversation of every one . and he brings salinius ( his colleague ) for instance , who was chosen by the voice of the whole brotherhood , and the judgment of the bishops which came together . each church stands free ( saith dr. bilson , perpet . govern. ) by god's law to admit , maintain , and obey no man as their pastor without their liking ; and that the peoples election dependeth on humane fellowship , and first principles of humane society and assemblies . dr. field informs us , that this right of the people hath been invaded many ways : . by great personages and magistrates . . when the bishops grew to great pomp , and the clergy began to be enriched by benefices , elections were , and to this day are made according to the interests of the rich and strong , whilst the people are not only deprived of , but become ignorant , that any right remains in them to chuse their own ministers or pastors . now this privilege , tho lost in most national churches , is restored and maintained in the baptized churches , where none are elected messengers , bishops , or deacons , without the free choice of the brotherhood where such elections are made . and after such election of persons of known integrity and competent ability , we proceed to ordination , with fasting and prayer , and the laying on of hands , according to the scripture ; acts . . when they had fasted and prayed , they laid their hands on them , and sent them away . thus for the ordination of messengers , ( which after the manner of some are called bishops . ) acts . . and when they had ordained them elders in every church , and prayed with fasting , they commended them to the lord , on whom they believed . acts . , . and they chose stephen , a man full of faith , and of the holy-ghost , and philip , and prochorus , and nicanor , and timon , and parmenas , and nicholas , whom they set before the apostles ; and when they had prayed , they laid their hands on them . thus for the ordination of deacons . all which apostolical practices are religiously restored and observed in the churches of the baptized believers , without any devised adjuncts of our own or others . by all which it may appear , they have a lawful call to the work of the ministry . here i meet with an objection ; 't is doubted by some , whether a man having received ordination as a presbyter , may afterward have ordination as a messenger of the churches of christ , the objector supposing that the first ordination is sufficient , only the church must give him another commission . this objection i answer three ways : . by antiquity . . by reason . . by scripture . . antiquity is directly against this objection , being rather for a threefold ordination than only one , as i shall shew by and by . but first , i marvel how the objector would give a man a ministerial commission without ordination , the church having no other way at all to give commissions but by ordination ; nor can any man tell us , how she can give her commissions ministerial , but by the very act of her ordination ; and according to the nature of her ordination , such , and no other is her commission . now our ancients understood this , and therefore did usually bring men gradually to the degree of a bishop , ( i. e. a messenger , according to the scripture , bishop , or overseer , being a name common to elders in the primitive times . ) thus chrysostom was first ordained a deacon , then a presbyter , after that he was ordained bishop of constantinople , by theophilus bishop of alexandria . and saith the learned bilson , in the primitive church they were first deacons , and upon trial , when they had ministred well , and were found blameless , they were admitted to be elders ; and after that , if their gifts and pains so deserved , they were called to an higher degree : so that every one , by the ancient discipline of christ's church , before he could come from ministring to governing in the church of god , received thrice , or at least twice , imposition of hands . . reason tells us , that every man that is called to the work of the ministry , ought to have a commission ( that is , an ordination ) commensurable to his ministry . it is christ's peculiar to give commission by the word of his mouth only , the church cannot do so ; she must confer ministerial authority in some solemn rite or ceremony . this is plain in the case of deacons , it was not sufficient for the apostles to say ( of persons eminently qualified ) we order or appoint them to serve tables , or , look ye to the poor : but besides their great qualifications and election , they must receive their commission or authority by prayer , with the laying on of hands , else they have no commission . in like 〈…〉 be solemnly ordained , before the holy-ghost hath made him an overseer of the particular flock committed to his charge . and then in reason , if he have a far greater charge afterward committed to him , he has need of a commission ( that is , an ordination , for other commission there is none ) to enable him to take care of many churches , and to plant new churches in the world. we read not of any messengers , that acted as such in that great trust , without an ordination agreeable to their work ; and it is ill venturing to send men out with a commission too short for their employment , it being irrational so to do , and without any good example . let us see then what the scripture will say in favour of our answers . . the apostles had a twofold apostleship ; the one limited to the jewish nation , mat. . the other of extent to all nations , mat. . if they were ordained to either , then they were ordained to both ; and the latter seems to be the more solemn and formal ordination , not only for that when christ had given them order what to do , he lift up his hands , and blessed them , luk. . . but also gave them order to tarry at jerusalem , until they were endowed with power from on high . when their work was particular or limited , they had a limited commission ; when their work was universal , they had an universal commission . sure the church , who hath no way to give commissions but by ordination , shall do well and wisely to follow christ , the author of all her power , when she delegates or gives it forth to any of her ministers . this answer may suffice , yet we add : barnabas is confessed to have been one of the seventy disciples , and had a divine authority from christ to preach the gospel to the jews ; but when he is sent to preach to the gentiles , he hath a new commission , even an ordination , as appears , acts . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e psal . . . rev. . . tim. . . psal . . . prov. . . notes for div a -e i see the th of elizabeth . luk. . , , . exod. . . lev. c. . socrat. l c. , . the baptist against the papist, or, the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment, in controversies of religion together with ten arguments or reasons, discovering the present papal church of rome to be no true church of christ : wherein it is also evinced that the present assemblies of baptized believers, are the true church of jesus christ / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the baptist against the papist, or, the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment, in controversies of religion together with ten arguments or reasons, discovering the present papal church of rome to be no true church of christ : wherein it is also evinced that the present assemblies of baptized believers, are the true church of jesus christ / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, - . [ ], , [ ] p. [s.n.], london printed : . errata: p. 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- john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the baptist against the papist : or , the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment , in controversies of religion . together with ten arguments or reasons , discovering the present papal church of rome , to be no true church of christ . wherein it is also evinced , that the present assemblies of baptized believers , are the true church of jesus christ . by tho. grantham , a prisoner for truths sake . luke . , . they have moses and the prophets , let them hear them . — if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be perswaded though one should rise from the dead . ezek. . , . but i said unto their children — walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers , &c. — i am the lord your god , walk in my statutes , and keep my judgments , and do them — joh. . . the word that i have spoken , the same shall judge you in the last day . london , printed in the year , . the author to the reader . courteous reader , not because i envy those of the papal church , or desire them any evil ; not that i desire they should be exposed to a suffering condition for matters of religion , or that they should be denied any liberty in that respect which i desire my self , nor for any other prejudice ( god knoweth ) do i publish this small treatise : but because i judge my self concerned at this time to give my testimony for the truth , against some papal tenents ; for divers causes : as first , i am at this time under restraint , and though nothing hath been laid to my charge , yet it is rumour'd by some that i am a papist ; yea , in this place of my confinement , have i been told to my face by some of the protestant clergie , that i am a roman jesuite . and indeed this is an ordinary aspersion which hath been cast upon those in general to whom i am related upon a religious account , viz. that we are all papists , or will turn papists , &c. and this , not so much to our personal prejudice , as to the dishonour of that antient way of truth by us professed . secondly , a more particular occasion of the publication of this treatise , proceeded from the papists themselves , in sending seven queries to the baptized congregations in this county ( commonly called anabaptists ) to which , through the importunity of some friends , i formed a brief answer ; little thinking , i confess , that so much contention would have risen thereupon , as since i have met with . and i likewise confess , that the undertaking is such , as that it requireth a more fit instrument than my self to manage it . nevertheless , i hope i may say , that hitherto what hath come to pass in this contest , hath fallen out rather to the furtherance of the truth ; for which cause i have thought fit to offer it to the perusal of others , so much of it i mean , as i conceive is at present needful ; and that is the substance of what hath passed about the means whereby we must decide or resolve controversies in religion . it now wants but few months of a year , since i sent my final answer , containing a review of all that had been said in way of answer to the queries before , in which i produced the testimony of divers antient dictors , as concurring with what i had therein spoken , and , as being directly opposite to my antagonist . but i have heard of late , that he is gone out of this nation , so that i expect no more reply from him . and though for divers reasons hereafter shewed , i have not published the whole discourse ( which , if need be , may in due time be brought to light ) yet i have thought it meet here to set down all the seven queries , that so if any christian , of suitable endowments , for the vindication of truth , against the opposition that lyeth in the said queries , shall think fit to lay forth his talent in that service , he may take hold of this occasion wherein to do it , ( for the queries were not directed to any particular person ) however , i shall joyn to each query , one antiquery , which may serve at this present to blunt the edge of them , as they carry an opposition to the truth . the queries . the anti-queries . query . antiq. . vvhether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? vvhat differences in point of religion can you resolve without the written word of god ? and whether the written word of god be a perfect rule for matters of religion ? query . antiq. . how know you precisely what is the true word of god ? whether some book must not of necessity speak for it self ? and whether the scripture doth not best deserve this priviledge ? and whether it be not a bold presumption to say , there are no holy books but them which we or you have received for such , sith those which we have , tell us , there are other holy writings , which never yet came to our hands , nor to yours ? query . antiq. . how know you that your copies and translations of the bible are the true word of god ? since the original writings are not come to your hands . what copies and translations of the bible have you that are more true than ours ? and where are the original manuscripts of the prophets and apostles ? qu. . antiq. . where we differ about the sense of the word , by whom must we be tryed ? the dead letter cannot explain it self . when we differ about the true church , and about the meaning of authors , by whom must we be tryed ? they cannot speak for themselves more than the scripture : and whether the scriptures , compared together , do not explain themselves ? also , whether it be not an opprobrious and ignominious speech for you to call the scripture a dead letter ? and whether the true lovers of the scripture ever vouchsafed it such ill , and indeed improper language ? qu. . antiq. . what clear text have you out of scripture for the procession of the holy ghost from the father & the son ? or , for changing the sabbath from saturday to sunday ? or prohibiting poligamy , or infant-baptism ? and , whether there be not as clear texts to prove unwritten tradition , purgatory , and the real presence ? whether the baptism of the true church be not one ? and whether that one be not expresly found in the scripture ? and whether the scripture doth not prohibit all beside that one ? and whether the papists have not confessed in many of their books , that infant-baptism is not found in , nor grounded upon the scripture ? and then , whether it be not clear , that all the texts which speak of baptism , do not prohibit infant-baptism ? also , whether joh. . . and . . and . . be not clear texts that the holy spirit proceeds from the father and the son ? also , whether cor. . , , . do not as much prohibit one man for having two wives , and one woman for having two husbands ? and whether it do not clearly prohibit the latter ? also , whether there be any that hold the first day under the notion of a sabbath among the baptized churches ? and yet whether there be not clear texts for the religious observation of it ? act. . . also , whether it he not absurd for you to ask for clear texts to prove unwritten things ? also , whether rurgatory , and the real presence , as you hold them , is not plainly destructive to some articles of the christian faith ? qu. . antiq. . vvhether universality both for time and place , be not an evident mark of the true church ? what church can you name that hath that mark ? and whether the woman that john saw , was not rome ? and whether her cup was not universally received , so that all nations were drunk thereby ? qu. . antiq. . whether you have really this mark , that is , whether you can fetch out of all ages and nations , professors of your religion ; in particular , you are desired to name but one or two in the first six hundred years after christ of your profession ; for example , such as held the sole-sufficiency of scripture for deciding controversies , and denied the lawfulness and usefulness of infant-baptism ? whether any man can shew this mark , as it is here call'd for , without the help of humane history ? and whether humane history be a rule or ground for divine faith ? and whether humane histories ( especially those of the first three hundred ) after christ , were not most , if not all , burnt , which concerned the church ? and whether those that remain are not contradictory one to another ? also , whether infant-baptism was so much as heard of in the first hundred ? and then , how could any be named that denied the usefulness thereof ? also , whether a church , whose gathering , constitution and government is answerable to the scripture , be not the true church of christ ? and whether the churches of the baptists do not therein exceed all other whatsoever ? thus , reader , i have given thee some account of the causes why i publish this treatise ; i desire thee to peruse it diligently . if in any thing the truth be dishonoured , through any error maintained by me , ( of which yet i do solemnly profess i am not conscious to my self ) then do not forbear to blame me in a christian sort : only , if thou perceivest me deficient in point of language and method , i desire thee to bear with that ; for i am one that gets my bread by the labour of my hands , and never saluted the schools to gain the knowledge of their arts. from the common-goal in the castle of lincoln , the th of the month , ( commonly called january ) . farewel . to the nameless author of the vii . queries ; and in him , to all the sons of papal rome in the county of lincoln . hitherto the things pertaining to religion , as they concern the baptized congregations , ( commonly called anabaptists ) and you that are commonly called papists , have been very little controverted . and whether it shall ever please god to try his peoples faith and stedfastness , by your open opposition , as he hath done it by others , i may not presume to determine ; nor doubt i , but if it shall so fall out , he will advance his truth thereby . it is most certain , that of those many wayes whereby the antient path of the gospel hath for a long time been opposed , there is not found any more potent than yours ; and the rather , because your subtilty is utterly unknown to the generality of christians in this age and nation , where your religion hath , as it were , lain dormant for many years . the most dangerous stratagem wherewith you usually assail your opposits , is , your denyal of the scripture , &c. the high doom of judgment in matters of faith ; and ascribe that dignity to your selves , under pretence of your being the church ; wherein if you conquer any one , your work is , as it were , wholly accomplished . whereupon , i have here presented to the world , somewhat of your skill , in this important question , whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? yea , i have faithfully transcribed your last reply to my answers , which contains the sum of what you said in all your other papers . whereby the reader will discern ( if i think right ) wisdom used to the hurt of them that have received it . i have forborn at this time to publish all that hath passed between us about the seven queries ; partly , for that one thing is oft repeated in our several papers ; and partly , and indeed especially , for that it is to little purpose to controvert any particular point of religion , till we be agreed about the judge , that must determine our differences . now , whereas you do ascribe this prerogative to your selves , under pretence of your being the church of christ , i have therefore laid down several reasons , by which it may appear , that you are not the church , and so not that judge , whereunto you pretend to be so willing to adhere . i have likewise shewed , that we , your opposits , have the true claim to the title of christ's church ; that so , if you will appeal to her , you must then appeal to us ; which yet we believe you will not be perswaded to , nor indeed do we desire you should , whilst this is the question , whether we , or you , be the church ? no , we are content to say with augustine , ask not us in this case , we will not ask you , but let this matter be tryed by the scripture : yea , saith he , let the prophets , christ , and his apostles be judge , yea , we say further in his words , let matter with matter , cause with cause , reason with reason , counted by authority of the scriptures , not proper to any but indifferent witnesses to both parts . my final answer to the first of the seven queries , i have here published , with as little alteration or addition as possibly i could , to give the reader a true understanding of the matters in difference . and if you publish any thing hereupon , i desire no fairer dealing from you , than you have in this case from me . i have seriously considered what should be the design of your queries ; and hitherto it appears to be chiefly , to exalt the authority of mens traditions , above the lively oracles of god , the scriptures . for though it should be granted ( which you can never prove ) that there hath continued a true church at rome ever since it was there planted ; yet would it not follow , that all which your church holdeth under the title of ecclesiastical tradition , must needs be obeyed by us ; for it is certain that the jews did retain the state of a true church , when yet their traditions ( however by them accounted ) were but the traditions of men , which both the prophets and christ himself , termed vain worship ; especially such of them as made void the commands of god , as we are sure many of yours do ▪ and therefore , as christ said to them , why do you transgress the command of god by your tradition ? the same we are humbly bold to say to you , when you ask us , why we transgress your traditions ? for surely , of none can it more fitly be said than of you , that laying aside the commandments of god , you hold the tradition of men . tho. grantham . the baptist against the papist . the first part sheweth , the scripture and rome to be in contention about the supream seat of judgment in controversies of religion . the first of all controversies is founded upon this query : what is the authoritative judge of controversies ? and indeed till there be some agreement in this point , there can be no expectation of any fruitful issue of any controversie . now all controversies amongst the sons of men , are reduceable to one of these two heads , namely , things humane , or , things divine ; things precisely pertaining to this life , or things which only pertain to that which is to come ; concerns of a secular consideration , or concerns of a religious consideration . and according to the nature of these controversies , such ought the judge for decision thereof to be . concerning this judge of religious controversies , there are divers opinions . some say that the light , or that of god in every man , is this only infallible judge of all religious controversies . but if this be admitted , a multitude of inconveniences must needs follow , of which this is not the least , that there can be no end of controversies , because , if every man have this judge of all debates in himself , and he aver , that what he saith and doth is according to the voice of this judge ( or , that of god in him ) no man can take in hand to judge contrary thereunto , without becoming the judge's judge , and so violate the rule proposed . for this opinion refers not doubtful matters to that of god in some men , or a select number of men , but to that of god in every man. there is another opinion , which saith , that amongst all men which pretend to own christ , and challenge to themselves the title of his church , and yet do deny each other to have an interest in that title ; that amongst all such parties of the sons of men , the only infallible and authoritative judge of their controversies about religion , is the lord himself , as he speaketh by his spirit in the holy scriptures ; together with right reason : or thus , which is all one , the apostles and prophets , as they speak in their holy writings , are the onely infallible authoritative judge in these controversies . yet three things are in this opinion allowed : first , that the living voice of the pastors ( with the church ) in their respective ages wherin they live , are of great importance in order to the terminating strife in the church , as a church . secondly , that records of antiquity are of some usefulness for the resolving some controversies , and for the better discovery of some errors , yet not so absolutely necessary , but that the church may sufficiently resolve her controversies without them . thirdly , that there is a judgment of science to be allowed every man , as touching all things which he chuseth or refuseth in matters of religion , to be used with moderation and discreet subjection . and this is the opinion to which for my part i do adhere . there is another opinion which saith , that the papal church of rome is the supream judge and catholick moderatrix of all disputes in matters of faith , and that all are bound to hear and obey her voice under pain of damnation ; and that the scriptures , as taken in the second opinion , is not the judge of controversies . now this is the opinion which at this time i am to examine , which in much seriousness i humbly purpose to do , and leave it to the sober consideration of all men . and for the better discharge of this duty , it is meet we should understand what the papists mean by the church of rome . and this i find , that under that title they would involve the whole church of christ from the apostles dayes until this present time , at least all the faithful since the time that paul declares the roman church to have been famous , as rom. . . but this is the very thing denied by us : for though we willingly grant that there was a very famous church at rome , when paul wrote his epistle to them ; yet it followeth not , that there is such a church there now , or that all that ever from that time to this have walked in the steps of true faith , must needs be supposed to have been members of the roman church , or rather of the church of rome ( so called ) especially since it was papal . so that in this controversie they must be content to define the church of rome on this wise , ( viz. ) all that in any age since christ , was of the same faith and practice in things religious , which is at this day found in the papal church of rome , and those only , are the persons of whom the papal church of rome doth consist . and indeed this is as much as they can reasonably desire ; for if those holy men who lived in times past , were of a faith and practice contradistinct to that which rome hath now received , then may not the present papal church without wrong , challenge them to be of their church ? as for example : paul , who bore witness for christ at rome , and the christians there in his dayes , was of the church of christ at rome ; yet we deny that they were any part of the papal church of rome . the church of rome therefore , defined as before , i do deny to be the infallible authoritative judge of all controversies about matters of faith or religion : and i do further say , that the scriptures and right reason , as laid down in the second opinion , much more deserves to be received for this supream judge of controversies , than the papal church of rome : and that there is not an other umpire that can so effectually decide the controversies of religion , which depend between such parties of men as lay claim to the title of christ's church , and yet deny each other to have an interest therein . and how far forth the truth in this point hath been evidenced in that pro and con discourse ( so far as it relateth to the first of them ) which hath been occasioned by the writing of the seven queries i have before spoken of , is here offered to the consideration of all sober men , that profess to own the glorious gospel of the blessed god and our saviour jesus christ . the first query of the seven was this , propounded by the nameless papist . papist . whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? baptist . to which question these ensuing answers were given before i received the adversaries last paper , which , with the answers thereunto , i will transcribe verbatim . i say the answers were , that the word controversies being understood of such controversies only as depend between those parties of men who deny each other to be the church ; that then there is no other way whereby we can resolve those controversies , but by the assistance of god's spirit speaking to us [ through the undoubted prophets , and apostles , and primitive churches ] in the lively oracles of god , the scriptures of truth , together with the help of right reason in a way of subserviency to those divine directions . or , if the word controversies , shall relate only to all such controversies as fall within the compass of the church , that then to the former means , we are to joyn the living voice and authority of the church ( in present being ) assembled with her pastours , as the ordinary means appointed of god to terminate strife in the churches . but if the division in the church be so great , as that it be not this way decissive ; or the doubt so secret , as not this way to be resolved ; there is not then a better way , than for both parties to reason it out till truth and innocency do prevail , as the two tribes and an half did with the other tribes of israel , and prevailed , joshua . or in some doubtful cases the use of lots may be admitted for the resolution of them , acts . papist . it is worth observing , how many windings and turnings you have to avoid the difficulty of this query ; whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? first , you leave out the word [ only ] in which lay the very knot of the difficulty . . then you give me a piece of an answer , and keep in the living voice of the church , as a reserve for your second paper . . when you are shewed how you for sake your old fort , the sole sufficiency of scripture , as if you were afraid to come too near us , you give back again , and do your worst to discredit this living voice of the church , so that in effect it stands but for a meer cipher , as i foresaw it would when it came once to the scanning . . upon second thoughts , finding your error , by putting the query , what is become of the living voice of the church ? you shuffle again , and would gladly make something of it ; but this something , in the end , falls to just nothing , as i shall make it further appear by ripping up the particulars of this your last answer . baptist . i have used no windings to avoid the difficulty of the first query ; but you are to know , that when i first answered it , i took the word controversie to relate only to such controversies as depend between such persons as deny each other to have any present right to either the name or priviledges of the church . and indeed , i do not see how any other sense can be made of this query : for , under that word we , i suppose you included no more but your self and church , on the one party ; and us , to whom you sent the queries , on the other party ; and we well know that you account us no members of the church ; and you likewise know that we have the same opinion of you ; but when your observations ( or second paper ) took into the query all controversies which fall within the compass of the church , as such , i could do no less than tell you , that my answer did not exclude the living voice of the church in such cases ; [ but that my answer doth only exclude every such voice as exalteth it self above the spirit speaking in the scriptures : and whereas in your third paper , you told me , that to appeal to councils and fathers , is a clear way to agree all our differences ; i told you that this is a very cloudy way , and that because they are contrary to themselves , and one another . . till they be agreed , they cannot agree us . . and sith you take not the scripture as being of any authority , till they , as the church , give it you ; i demanded , by what you would agree them in their divisions ? . and to shew you how they are divided , i gave you divers instances concerning their divisions , as also touching the corruption which hath been found in divers popes . ] papist . . i had no reason to take notice of your excluding from the living voice of the church , every voice exalting it self above the voice of scripture , because it was a very needless exception , since the church arrogates no such power , but only to interpret the voice of scripture . . why this way of taking the sense of scripture from the living voice of the church , should be so cloudy as you say it is , i do no more understand , than that the living voice of a judge should be a cloudy way to understand the law by . as for your riddles , how we are to reconcile the fathers and councils when they seem to clash with their own assertions , but by having recourse to scripture : i answer briefly , that general councils have no such contradictions as you speak of . and as for the holy fathers , when there is any such difficulty in any one of them , we must look upon the rest what they say , and to follow their unanimous consent : for if we take them singly , no doubt they have erred , and these errors we know by their dissenting from the rest ; for otherwise , certainly the authority of any one of the antient fathers , when he expounds scripture , or relates the christian practice of his time , and is not censured or contradicted by the rest , or condemned by the church in a general council , is of greater authority to decide controversies in point of religion , or to know the true meaning of scripture , than any thing you have alledged , as we shall see by and by , when i have first examined what you bring to discredit the fathers and councils . against the fathers , you first bring st. aug. retract . . contradicting himself by saying , that , matth. . christ built not his church upon peter , but upon peter 's faith : sure you read not st. aug. for he there expounds that place of christ himself , and not of the faith of st. peter ; nor doth he recal his expounding it elsewhere of st. peter , but leaves both expositions as probable , concluding thus ; hunc autem sententiam quae sit probalitur eligat lector . is this fair dealing ? again , you bring in st. aug. contra . petil. c. , , . as contrary to himself and me , because he teaches , that the church is to be found out by the words of christ . but though ( i doubt ) you cannot make this appear in any of these three chapters , yet were it nothing to the purpose ; for we deny not but the church is to be found out by these clear marks , whereby the holy scripture hath deciphered her . next , you alledge st. chrysost . in psal . . and st. ambrose de sacrament . calling the blessed sacrament , a similitude or figure of christ's body and blood. i answer . . that it is the opinion of the learned , that neither st. chrysost . nor indeed any grecian , could be author of that work . . i say , the sacrament may be truly called the similitude of christ's body and blood , because it is not given in the form of flesh and blood , of which men would have a horror , as the same st. amb. observes , but under the forms of bread and wine . the next is st. dinis eccl. herarch . but quoting no place , i have not yet met with it ; i am sure that work is so clearly for us in this very point , that our adversaries the calvinists , and calvin , denies it to be his : st. aug. and tertull. are as clear for us , and what you bring out of them clearly answered by bellarm. de euchar. and you are to know that it is a general rule amongst the learned , that we are to explicate obscure places by those that are clear , if we mean to know the opinion of any author , it being impossible for any man to write so warily , but that sometbing may be objected out of him ( especially if he have writ much , as it is our case ) which may seem contrary to what he expresly teaches . and you had need observe this rule in expounding the scriptures themselves , or otherwise you will meet with a thousand absurdities and contradictions . against the councils you produce that of constantinople under constant . copron. as crying down transubstantiation . but this was a factious meeting , never owned for a council , neither by the greek nor latine fathers , and expresly condemned in the nicene council : and the jest is , this mock-council was so far from condemning transubstantiation as you affirm , that they swore by the body and blood of christ in the eucharist , to abolish the worship of images : [ something should here have been said concerning bertram , who is said to have opposed transubstantiation ; but in the transcription of my third paper , there was an errata , and the instance is not material ; so that what is said about him , i will expunge in both papers . ] you say further against the authority of councils , that they have contradicted each other in their decrees , about the laityes communicating in one or both kinds : but we grant that the church may vary in customs of this nature , which being indifferent , may be altered as she shall think fit , according to several circumstances : what we deny is , that the church , or general councils ever made contrary decrees about the belief of any point of faith. it is no wonder that you have a fling against the pope , after you have been so bold with holy fathers , and general councils ; but i must tell you , though many of our divines hold him infallible , when he speaks ex cathedra , as they call it , yet is it not the opinion of all , and consequently no article of our faith. only we agree in this , that for preserving peace in the church , all are bound so far to submit to the popes decrees , as not to oppose them until a general council be called , from whose judgment we admit no appeal . what you say of the wicked lives of some of them , is nothing to the purpose ; for as wicked caiphas play'd the prophet , so might the bishops of rome , with the assistance of the holy ghost , be true interpreters of god's word , for all their wicked lives ; such gratia gratis date , which are given for the good of others , do not argue his sanctity that hath them . to make you a true prophet , i will here cry out , what is become of the living voice of the church , since you have done what you can to discredit her , by casting all the dirt you can in her face , as it is evident , unless you will throw out the holy fathers and general councils ( the churches representatives ) out of the church ! baptist . i perceive our judgments differ concerning the living voice of the church , what it is ? i have told you , that i take it for the present church and her pastours , in those particular ages wherein they live . you take this living voice to be the decrees of councils , and books of the antient fathers . and here i cannot but marvel , why you should be willing to appeal to the books of the antients , and their written decrees , as a living voice , and clear way to decide our controversies , and yet appeal from the books of the prophets and apostles , as being but dead letters , and senceless characters . certainly , if any writings now extant , may be called the churches living voice , the holy scripture doth better deserve that title than any other . nor will it suffice here to object ( as it is the papists usual way ) that our difference is about the scripture and the sense thereof , &c. for the same difference is found amongst us , touching the books and sense of councils and fathers : yea , i think i may be bold to say , that even the learned are so much divided concerning them in both respects , as that they can never be therein reconciled . but is it so ? that the voice of the fathers , &c. who only speak in their writings , is a means or way of equal clearing to decide our differences , as the voice of a living judge in a case of law amongst men ? then what reasonable man can render a reason , that the voices of the prophets and apostles , though only speaking to us in their books and decrees , may not be appealed to , as a clear way to decide our differences ? sith all men , professing christianity , must confess that the prophets and apostles speak with as much life and power , certainty and authority , as any that ever writ since their time : no-whither now can you turn your selves , but to your selves ( as i have formerly noted ) and take upon you to be the only living voice , that must , without controul , interpret fathers , councils , and scriptures too ; and when you have done , sit down as judge , to give sentence for your selves , and against your opposers . well , you have assigned us a judge of controversies ; to wit , the fathers and councils of the church ( long ago deceased ) and this is a clear way , you say , to agree all . but i have noted that it 's a very cloudy way , and that because they could not yet agree themselves ; for they are opposite each to other to this day , insomuch as you are utterly unable to reconcile them , since ( as i have shewed ) you must not make use of the scripture to that purpose ; because , before the scripture can have any authority to any purpose , ( according to your judgment ) your councils must deliver it to us as the word of god ; which they cannot do till they be found , first , holy fathers and councils of the church ; and secondly , at unity among themselves , and each with himself . and i have asked you , how you will effect this difficult work ? to which you answer ; first , that general councils have no such controversies as i talk of . secondly , that when there is such difficulty in any one of the fathers , we must look upon the rest what they say , and so follow their unanimous consent ; for ( say you ) if we take them singly , no doubt they have erred , and these errors we know by their dissenting from the rest . i answer first , that general councils have erred , and that in matters of faith , is undeniable , if records may be credited rather than you . as first , the council of arimi . did err so , as to conclude for the arrian heresie , namely , that there was a time when christ was not the son of god : and sure you account that an errour in point of faith. secondly , the council of ephesus did err so , as to conclude for the eutichian heresie , namely , that the body of christ was not of one substance with ours ; and is not this an errour in point of faith ? or will you say , that these things were never contradicted and censured by other councils ? these things are not denied by your eminent disputant . see the book intituled , certamen religiosum . so then it appears , that general councils have erred , and contradicted each another in very high points of faith. moreover , as to the things whereof i chiefly spake in my last paper , it is manifest that councils have contradicted one another about the sacraments ; for the council of constance , confirmed by pope martin the fifth , doth curse the laity , or excommunicate such as receive the sacrament in both kinds . and yet by the council of basil , the laity are allowed to receive it in both ; which council was also confirmed by a pope , namely , felix the fifth . sure one of these councils must needs err . but you have a way to salve this errour ( such as it is ) and that is to tell me , that the church may vary in customs of this nature . sure this is a corrupt opinion , by which it will follow , that we have no certainty of , nor constancy in any ordinance of christ ; for if the church have power to take the cup away , she hath power also to take the bread away ; for certainly she hath as much to do with the one , as the other . but truly this your variation , as it is clear beside the institution of christ , and the doctrine of paul , so it hath in a manner destroyed both baptism , and the supper of the lord , as is evident by the practice used in divers of your masses , where the people partake neither of the bread nor cup. as also your peda-rantism , hath in a great measure defrauded the sons of men of the baptism of repentance . but be pleased to consider , that this your sacrilegious division of this sacrament , is condemned by cyprian , gelasius , and others . first , cyprian saith , how can we exhort the people to shed their blood for christ , if we deny them the blood of him ? the division of this mystery cannot be without great sacriledge , saith gelasius . again , you cannot be ignorant how the council of carthage , decreed the books of tobit , judith , ecclesiasticus , sapience , and maccabees , should be received for canonical , notwithstanding they were rejected out of the sacred canon by the council of laodicea ; and here by the way i may take notice , how you would have me walk by such a rule as you your self do not observe ; for you propose the judgment of those who lived nearest to the apostles times , as my safest rule to walk by , supposing they knew the mind of god , or christ , better than those that came after ; but then why do you reject the judgment of the laodicean council , which is more antient than that of carthage , which yet you follow in receiving the books of maccabees into your canon of holy scripture . secondly , it is marvellous to see , what work you make in reconciling the fathers without the scriptures . and seeing you are so hardy as to undertake this task without scripture , as undoubtedly you see you must , or else grant , that the scripture must be that whereby we must decide all controversies in religion ; for certainly , if we must decide all the fathers controversies in religion with or by the scripture , it is not then very likely that either we or they should decide ours without them : but i say , sith you have undertaken to decide the fathers differences without scripture , pray tell me , before you meddle with their differences , how you know them to be holy fathers of the church ? can you prove them church-members without scripture ? i believe this is as hard a task as to reconcile their differences without scripture ; and yet this also must you do , before you can look upon the scripture as any rule for either them , or your self . you tell me , if i take the fathers singly , no doubt they have erred : yet you say i must follow their unanimous consent , ( a pretty paradox ) follow their consent ! in what ? why say you , in their interpretation of scripture . of scripture ! why there is no such thing as yet for them to interpret ; for you know ( that by your own direction ) we have laid by the scripture , and must reconcile these fathers by themselves . miserable guide ! hast thou not led me into a labyrinth , and run thy self into a sufficient maze ? i 'le back again and see how these fathers themselves direct me in this difficult point . and first i meet with famous augustine , who tels me how he took notice of the fathers that were before him . saith he , my consent without exception i owe not to any father , were he never so well learned , but only to the canonical scripture : for whereas the lord hath not spoken , who of us can say it is this or that ? and if he do say so , how can he prove it ? yea , saith he , i require the voice of the shepherd reade me this matter out of the prophets , psalms , the gospel , or the apostles epistles . neither ( saith he ) ought we to take the dispensations of all men , how catholick soever they be , or be they never so commendable as we take the canonical scriptures , as though we may not ( saving the honour that 's due to such men ) reprove or refuse any thing of their writings , if we find they meant otherwise than the verity doth allow , by the help of god found by us , or by others . again , he saith , i am not moved with cyprian's epistles ; for i do not take the letters of cyp. as the canonical scripture , but i do try his writings by the canonical scripture ; and whatsoever in them doth agree with the authority of the holy scripture , i do receive it with his commendation ; and whatsoever doth not — — i do by his good leave refuse it . and for further testimony of augustine's integrity , hear what he saith of himself : trust not me , ( saith he ) nor credit my writings , as if they were canonical scripture , but whatsoever thou findest in the word , although thou didst not believe it before , yet ground thy faith on it now ; and whatsoever thou readest of mine , unless thou know it certainly to be true , give no certain assent unto it . again , he thus teacheth , we must be partakers of other mens writings , wholly after the manner of bees ; for they flie not alike to all flowers , nor where they sit do they snatch all quite away , but snatching so much as may serve to their honey-making , they take their leave of the rest . even so we , if we be wise , having gotten so much of others as is sound and agreeable to truth , we will leap over the rest . which rule , if we keep in reading and alledging the fathers words , we shall not swerve from our profession , the scriptures shall have the sovereign place , and yet the doctors of the church shall lose no part of their due estimation . and saith origen , we have need to bring the scriptures for witness , for our meanings and expositions without them , have no credit , — — the discussing of our judgements must be taken only of the scriptures . thus you see the fathers were not of your mind , that the readers of their books should not try them by the scripture , but the contrary ; and that as we find them consenting to , or dissenting from scripture ( not one another as you teach ) accordingly they advise us to believe , or not believe them . as i have said , it is a cloudy way to appeal to councils and fathers , so you now prove my saying true : for i alledged augustine , as being opposite to you and your church , touching the meaning of matth. . upon this rock , &c. and , first , you tell me i read him not ; but i must tell you , i read him after a scholar sufficient : and though your reading differ something from his , yet they both destroy the received opinion of your church concerning that text ; for if christ be that rock , as you confess augustine there teacheth , then it cannot be meant positively of peter , and so not consequently of your popes . my quotation out of chrysostom in ps . . you invalidate , by telling me , that book was not writ by him . and this i find to be the usual way of learned-men , when the passage alledged is clear and convincing , then a suspition must be cast upon the book , &c. i could instance the best part of a thousand books , epistles , &c. which are intituled under the names of the antient fathers ; amongst which , as you observe , is reckoned the book of dynis the areopagite , which i alledged in my rejoynder . and do not these things contribute something towards the proof of my assertion , namely , that it is a cloudy way to appeal to fathers and councils to decide controversies in religion . if then your way be cloudy , mine must needs be clear , unless you can assign a third way , opposit to both ; for undoubtedly there is a clear way to decide controversies . you again prescribe me a way to find the meaning of the fathers , and that is , to explicate their obscure places by such as are plain , &c. but by your leave , we can neither know which of their speeches are obscure or plain , without some rule whereby to know this . and now , what can supply this our necessity ? for example , augustine is sometimes read , affirming the sacrament to be the real body and blood of christ ; otherwhiles he is read directly opposit to this : and how can you , or any body else , tell which of these sayings is clear or obscure , fith none must be permitted the use of his reason ( by you ) in this controversie ; and how he should judge according to faith , i know not , sith you , as yet , debar us of that by which faith now cometh , namely , the doctrine of the prophets and apostles as contained in the scriptures . papist . something you would say for this living voice of the church you once had required as necessary to resolve differences in religion , but this signifies nothing in our present query : for , after all your shifting , i cannot perceive that you make use of her authority in point of faith , ( which is our qu. ) but only to take up other quarrels , by exhorting , reproving , &c. and in this also it seems you will be your own judge , whether she follow christ or no. three things you affirm in relation to the churches authority . . that she is to rule her self according to scripture ; which no body denies . . that the church in former ages is not to be a rule for after ages to rule themselves by ; because she could not foresee the controversies that rise up afterwards . what if the same errors be revived now , which in their times were condemned , is not the judgment of the church in those dayes a safe president for us to condemn the same errors ? besides , is it not evident that the pastors of the church , the nearer they were to christ's time , were the better able to judge of christ's doctrine ? you say , dly . that the church is to be no rule for those that are out of her communion . a strange assertion . as if a clear light ( as the church is in holy scripture ) with so many marks to know her by ; as unity , sanctity , universality , miracles , &c. were not a good means for him that gropes in the dark to find out his way . look well upon these marks , and you will find them to agree only to the roman catholick church , and to no upstart congregation , and consequently , that you ought in all reason to give her the hearing in matters of faith , and to have recourse unto her , as to the pillar and ground of truth , tim. . which place you let slip , and this under pain of being accounted a heathen , &c. matth. . for though this place doth point out chiefly the obedience which members of the church owe her in point of discipline , as you say well enough , yet hath it no small force in our present debate , since those that will not hear her voice when she ecchoes out the voice of god , may well be esteemed by her as a heathen . and in your own sence i suppose you will have your proviso , that the church is to be obeyed only when she ruleth according to god's word , of which you will be judge too : so in conclusion all comes to this , that you and your spirit must be judge of all disputes . and then have not i reason to ask again ( since i , or any body else , may challenge as large a share in the spirit and right reason as you ) who shall take up the quarrel ? and is not my comparison here very pat , that there must needs be as great confusion in your church , as in a kingdom where every one were left to decide his own case ? this was not the old way , as you may see , deut. . , . and malach. . . which places you had no mind to take notice of : and yet you charge me for letting pass your instance of st. stephen , concerning the libertines , alexandrians , &c. which makes nothing at all for your pretended evidence of god's word : for though his judgment might be well taken in expounding scripture , as being full of the holy ghost , and confirming what he said by miracles , as the scripture tells us he did , yet this is not your case , for i think you will not arrogate so much to your self . what you say of christ and his apostles vindicating their doctrine out of scripture , is very true , and our church doth the same : but it is not true , that either christ , or the primitive saints were alwayes wont to send their proselytes to the scripture , to regulate their faith. did not christ himself send st. paul to ananias for instruction ? had you been of his counsel , you would have rather wished him to look into the word of god , and see there what he was to do . and when there arose a debate , even in the apostles dayes , about the necessity of circumcision , act. . did they not assemble the church , and so pronounce sentence conciliariter , with a visum est spiritui sancto & nobis ? baptist . [ it is here worth noting how you dispute beyond the due bounds of the query , which , as it concerns you papists and us baptists , hath no relation to the differences which arise in the church , as such , and indeed you go amiss in this matter throughout the whole discourse . ] here you seem to acknowledge , that the church ought to rule according to scripture ; but you will allow me to judge whether she do so or not . but i answer , that there is a judgment of science , as well as a judgment authoritative ; the latter i know cannot be exercised by me , nor any other member of the church , because this power lyeth in the church as imbodied together ; but the former , to wit , a judgment of science or knowledge , is particular to each individual , and so my self , if a member of the church , am allowed the exercise thereof , even in matters of religion , cor. . . i speak to wise men : judge ye what i say . the apostle doth not here give , any wise man at corinth leave to judge of that which he said , so as to censure what he had delivered , yet he must exercise his understanding to judge of what paul had said , thereby to find out the verity of what was spoken . but yet i do confess , that our case , and the case of christians then , do differ : for paul was a foundation-layer , a master-builder , ( so that the members might not so well judge then , as now , yet ) the church now is to build upon the foundation which is laid already : and you know that i have in my rejoynder acknowledged , that it very nearly concerns particular members of the church , to have great regard to the judgment of the church , when , after serious debate , they deliver their sentence in any point disputable . and further ( as touching your church ) you tell me anon , that even a heathen may judge of the holiness of your church , by the law of conscience ; and then , why may he not by the same law judge your church concerning her unholiness ? nay verily , he must be able to speak both wayes , or else he hath no judgment . and if a heathen have this priviledge and ability , then why not a man professing christianity , who hath not only the conscience-law , but also the written law of god , by which he understands things more excellent , rom. . from all this i only conclude , that each particular ought to have the free exercise of his judgment in what he chuseth or refuseth , sith without this he cannot chuse or refuse any thing with confidence , nor to his comfort . and concerning controversies in the church , i do not see that ( in these dayes ) we are bound to follow the sentence of a multitude , ( though assembled in council ) so , as to hold their sentence absolutely infallible ; for the promise of infallibility is not made to a certain select number * of bishops , but to the church , taken collectively ; and we may remember that a great assembly of prophets in the old church , erred in judgment with unanimous consent , when yet the lord had one micaiah at home which understood the truth of his will. wherefore i here conclude , although the members of the church ought to weigh with great respect the things concluded of by their pastors , yet so may it be that they may swerve from the truth , whilst god clears it up by some particular rather than by such an assembly . and to this agrees very well a saying of gerson , if it should so happen that there should be a general council assembled , in which such a man were present as is well instructed , if the greatest part should decline through malice or ignorance , to the opposition of the gospel , such a lay-man may be objected , against the said general council . and saith panormitan , in matters which , concern faith , the saying of a lay-man ought to be preferred before that of the pope , if his saying be more probable by better authority of scripture than that of the pope . you often tell me , that to appeal to the spirit speaking in the scriptures , &c. is not a sufficient way to decide our controversies , and that because you may challenge them to be for you , &c. to which i answer , by retorting your argument thus , that which you call the living voice of the church , to wit , volumns of fathers , and decrees of councils , is therefore insufficient to decide our controversies , because your opposites do say they are for them , and against you : and now you must answer your own query , viz. who must take up this quarrel ? you answer , that we must explicate them one by another ; the places which are obscure , by such as are plain . and then i still ask you , why we may not as well agree our selves this way by the volumns of the prophets and apostles ? i shewed before , how you misapply that text , matth. . and though the case is so plain , as that you cannot defend your self , yet you seem loth to decline your error , and would fasten a very gross passage upon me ; namely , that i should say , that the church is no rule for those that are out of her communion , as not to be a light for such as grope in the dark . a manifest wrong ; i only say and prove , that those that are not of the church , are not within the power of her discipline ; nor can she reasonably desire unconverted ones to appeal to her judgment-seat in controversies between them and her . and i asked you , if you would not scorn us , if we should call upon you to appeal unto us as your judges , whether we , or you , be the church ? and not doubting but you would , i concluded , that it is equally absurd for you , to desire us to appeal to you as our judges . but you may find it plain enough in my papers , that i do believe the church so to be a rule to the world , as to shew them the way of life , and so a good means for their illumination and conversion . — as for your three texts , tim. . deut. . , . malachi . . as they do your cause no good , so they do mine no harm : i grant the church is the pillar and ground of the truth , and that she hath power to hear and determine all controversies among her members , as aforesaid ; and that it is the duty of the members , to enquire of their pastors , what is the way of god concerning them : but what of all this ? ergo , the papal church of rome is the only infallible judge , and moderatrix of all contention about religion . ergo , we must all appeal to the papal church of rome , as our judge , in this question , whether we be of the church , or not ? though we be in doubt , whether she her self be a true church , or not ? yea , though we are satisfied she is not . are not these monstrous consequences ? be it here observed , that i do believe the church of christ to be the pillar of truth , so , as that she was never so over-clouded with error , but that she hath enjoyed the fruition of that promise , matth. . in some good measure ever since it was made : nor shall she ever so close with the gates of hell , as by general consent , and full authority to dissert that faith , which having christ for its object , is the rock she is built upon : and therefore you see , i hold the church cannot err ( in some sense ) and indeed , he that holds the contrary , must ( for ought i see ) raze out that promise , matth. . and many other . and yet nothing from all this accrues to the papal church of rome . i alledged stephen , as defending the truth by the authority of scripture only , &c. nor can it be groundedly imagined , that ( had it been the mind of god , that such as are not of the church , should be summoned to her tribunal ) stephen ( being full of the holy spirit , the leader into all truth ) would have omitted the use of that means , but he knew that such authority the church had none , as i shewed from cor. . what have i to do to judge them that are without ? do not ye also judge them that are within ? and therefore he could not mention any such power . and though stephen did many wonders among the people , yet at this time when he so powerfully vanquished his adversaries , he did none at all , but only overcame them by the assistance of the spirit speaking in the scripture , &c. i desired you to shew me but one instance , where ever any of the primitive saints did appeal to the church , of which they were present members , as judge between them and such as never received their doctrine : but you have not done it , nor indeed can it be done . as i shewed , that stephen appealed to scripture only , &c. so i also shewed , that it was the way of christ and his apostles , frequently to vindicate their doctrine against such as were not of their church , by appealing to the scriptue ( especially amongst such as owned the scripture ) this you confess ; and also you tell me , that your church doth the same : but this cannot be true of all your doctrine , because you have told me , that many points of your faith are resolved without the written word of god ; or else you never answered my first antiquery , which demandeth , what controversie in religion you can resolve without the written word of god ? and in your answer you assigned , the procession of the holy ghost from the father and the son , sabbath , infant-baptism , and many other points of faith ; and i shall shew anon , that we have it pro confesso , from your champions , that there be some points of your faith , which is not grounded upon , nor mentioned in the scriptures ; and therefore your church cannot vindicate such points of her faith and doctrine by the scripture . although christ sent paul to ananias for instruction , yet it followeth not , that we must take romes instructions without scripture . is there no difference between the time that now is , and then was ? much of the scripture ( if not all the new testament ) was then unwritten . again , ananias was immediatly sent of god. if you are so sent , prove it to us , as ananias did , by shewing the miracle of restoring paul's sight . if you are not so sent , to what purpose do you alledge this text ? i believe i might form you a monsirous consequence here . papist . you that will not trust the churches judgment , lay down four wayes of resolving doubts ; the first , to argue it out till truth prevail . but if we must argue only out of scripture , and be our own interpreters of it , there can be no end of arguing , as i have often shewed . the second , to appeal to god as the two tribes did , josh . . a rare way to end controversies , to look for miracles in our disputes . the third , to appeal to scripture , and right reason : but if i challenge them to be on my side , who must take up the difference ? the fourth , to cast lots . but though the apostles did it , who certainly were inspired to do so , yet must not we presume to tempt god , or to look for the like miracles , or to build our faith upon such doubtful events . baptist . you here wrong us , to say , that we will not trust the judgment of the church ; for the church , truly and universally taken , we do credit , as her that is appointed of the father , to be the pillar and ground of the truth ; of which church , we take the prophets and apostles to be the principal members , and so in all points of faith , to be credited in the first place . but if by church , you mean the papal church of rome , i confess we dare not trust her judgement , at least , not in all that she saith ; for example these following : . your church tells us , that it is not needful for the scriptures to be read to , or by the laity , in a tongue which they understand : and that though they pray ( after another ) in latine , though they understand not what they say , yet such prayer is sufficient , rhem. test . annot. in corinthians . . your church tells us , that the sacrifice of your masse , is available to take away , or obtain remission of sins by the work wrought . con. trident. sess . . that the whole masse is a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and dead ; and whoso saith , it is only a commemoration of christ's death , &c. is accursed . con. trent . . your church holds , that such as deny that the real flesh and blood of christ , is in the bread and wine of the sacrament , ought to be burnt to death . . your church holds , and tells us , that images , and old clothes of saints , ought to be worshipped with religious worship . . that men are as fully justified by good works , as they are damned by evil works . . that it is unlawful for ministers of christ to marry . . that the scripture doth not contain all things necessary to salvation . to omit many other , these are points of your churches judgment , which we dare not trust , till by you , or some other , proved to be truths . i assigned the use of lots as lawful in some doubtful cases to end controversies , and for proof , i quoted acts . and this you will not allow for two reasons . . because ( you say ) the apostles were inspired to use them ; but were it so ( as that you cannot prove ) yet it cannot be denied , but we may do some things which they were inspired to do : for the holy ghost was to lead them into all truth , and they were to lead us into the same truth , by their example and doctrine , joh. . . cor. . , . and be it here observed , that the holy ghost led those , our teachers , to ordain the ministry by prayer , and laying on of hands , acts , and acts . which practice of theirs , is a good president to act by ; a president i say ; for this practice is not expresly commanded in scripture , no more than the use of lots in the election of ministers . if it here be objected , that christ might give laying on of hands in precept when he was with his apostles . i answer , so also might he give them the other to be used , when there might be persons found of seemingly equal fitness to serve the church . . you reckon the use of lots , acts . amongst miracles , as your other reason , why we may not use them to decide any controversie ; but why you should so do , i see no more reason , than to say josh . . mention'd any miracles towards the composure of the difference between the two tribes , and israel ; where in truth no such thing can be found , though you seem to affirm it . papist . in my last paper , i took notice how you sent us to heaven for miracles , to take up our quarrels after the example of moses , whose cause was cleared that way : here you deny you brought in the instance of moses to this purpose , which , how true it is , every one that can reade must needs see . for , are not these your words ? but you say , reason is on my side , &c. and demand by whom we must be tryed , who must take up the quarrel ? i answ . even the same that took up quarrels of this nature in times past , exod. , &c. do you not here tell us plainly , that god must take up our quarrels * as he did those of moses ? and truly otherwise i might ( as you foresaw ) very possibly tell you , that your allegation was nothing to the question , who must take up the quarrel ? it is pretty to see what stuff you make of it , and then how you digress , to rail at our baptism and pastours ; i say , rail : for you bring no proof at all . baptist . i have said enough to satisfie any reasonable man , that it doth not follow from my alledging exod. . that i send you , or any body else , to heaven for miracles to decide our controversies . for at the first i shewed , that in the case of moses there was miracle against miracle ; only god gave a note of distinction between those signs , insomuch as the serpent that came of moses rod devoured the other : from whence i only noted , that it's god's way to give some powerful note of distinction , between the witness of his servants , and deceivers . and now , is not this my observation very pertinent to our case ? you say , you are the church . we say , we are the church . here is testimony against testimony , as there was miracle against miracle ; and if the lord do not now give some powerful note of distinction between our doctrine and yours , concerning the church , as he did between stephen's and the alexandrians , i pray , who must take up the quarrel between u s ? is it fit that you should be judge in your own case here ? if so , why may not we ? if the councils and fathers were of the papal church , then it is not any more reasonable that you should summon us to their arbitriment , than it is for us to summon you to the judgment of our predecessors ; but forasmuch as you and we are agreed , that the prophets and apostles were infallibly assisted to write the mind of god for us to observe ; therefore it 's most reasonable that we should both appeal to them . if you object , the prophets , &c. are not alive to interpret their writings , and that our difference is about the sense thereof ; i answer , this objection is every way as forceable against the decrees of councils , and volumns of fathers ; for their writings must be interpreted , expounded , &c. and we differ about the meaning of them . secondly , the way you assign us to agree them , is to consult them together , &c. now i would know , why we may not be allowed this way to seek out the meaning of the prophets and apostles ? in a word , there is not one objection which yet i have met with , levelled against our appealing to holy scripture , &c. as the only infallible means to decide all controversies between you and us ; but the same objections are more forceable against all that you appeal to , for decision of the said controversies . papist . you except against our miracles , because we bring them to prove our church by ; but if it appear as it doth , that god works miracles upon those that actually call upon his blessed mother , and his other saints , or whilst they are performing some of our religious practices , which you abhor , is it not an argument that god approves them ? it is god then , and not we , that brings miracles to prove our church . baptist . you will still have your miracles to be an infallible mark of the truth of your church , especially those of the blessed virgin ( you mean the image so called at loreto ) or as you phrased it in your third paper , the lady of loreto . but let me tell you , that there is small cause you should refer me to what is done there , as an infallible mark that your church is the church of christ . for by the relation of two eye-witnesses , which i have read , it is a place of most gross idolatry , blind devotion , and deceit . one of which authors , was once a teacher of your church , who , before his separation from you , travelled to loreto , to see if the image of the virgin would inform him of the truth or falshood of the roman church , as it is now constituted ; for he was doubtful in this matter , and had been informed , that if any person were guilty of mortal sin ( which if the papal church be the church of christ , he concluded he must needs be guilty of , in questioning her , at least in the judgment of the fryers , who waited there upon that image ) he had been informed ( i say ) that if such as were guilty of mortal sin , did but pray before the lady of loreto , the said image would either blush , or fall into a sweat , and so resolve the petitioner in the affirmative . but if we may believe the lady of loreto , and this informant , then it is no mortal sin to think , that the papal church is not the church of christ : for this doubtful man prayed earnestly , and beheld the lady as stedfastly , but no sweat nor change befel her at all . therefore , according to the fryers rule , it is no mortal sin to think the papal church of rome is not the church of christ . but this one thing is especially observable here , that whereas you would perswade your self , and others , that i send men to heaven for miracles to decide controversies ; it is manifest that you are the man that is herein guilty : for the controversie is , whether the papal church of rome , be the church of christ ? you affirm ; i deny . to decide this controversie , you refer me to miracles , as the special means , or chief mark , whereby i may be resolved in this matter , as is evident in this , and your two former papers ; so that what you would cast upon me , falls clearly upon your self , save that , instead of sending me to heaven , you send me to loreto . [ in my rejoynder i urged , that of necessity the scripture must decide all our controversies , as aforesaid ; because , as things now stand , the word ( or scripture ) is antecedent to the church , so that inasmuch as it is impossible to find the church without the scripture , it supposes clearly that the scripture must be found before the church : and so , if the scripture must of necessity resolve this great controversie about the church , it consequently followeth that they must resolve all controversies ; because all religious controversies are involved in this one general query , where is , and who are the church ? ] something here , which the adversary doth further write , is omitted , because it may be more fitly taken notice of afterward . papist . i had reason to take notice of your general saying , that the word was antecedent to faith and the church , since there was a church , and consequently faith before the scripture was written . now it seems you meant not the scripture by the word , but i know not what word , which was afterward committed to writing . it is past my understanding what word you mean ; for since it cannot be verbum scriptum before it be written , it must either be verbum traditum , and i suppose you will not allow that ; or verbum dei patris ; and that cannot be the word you speak of , as committed to writing . baptist . by that word which was antecedent to faith and the church , as it relates to the church under the patriarchs , &c. i mean the word which god spake to them , and by them , at sundry times , and in divers manners . and if you take that term [ word ] to relate to the church of christ in its plantation , then i speak partly of the written word of god , and partly of that which was ( at that time ) only spoken by word of mouth , by christ and his faithful stewards ; and if you will call this part of the word , verbum traditum , i say , that is the word i speak of . and i do also say , this word was afterward committed to writing ; which word , together with the former , i mean that of the prophets , is that whereon the church ( as now considered ) is founded * , by which she must be known . and in this sense , i say , the holy scripture is now antecedent to the church . and therefore well spake that learned person , chrysostom , when he forewarned the sons of men , that if they took heed to any thing , in order to their knowing the church ( in the latter times ) beside scripture , they would fall headlong into the abomination which maketh desolate , and not be able to know the true church . baptist . i think it meet here to give the reader some account of my judgment of these five texts , which i brought to justifie my answer to the first query ; which , with my answer , was as followeth . qu. whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? answ . the spirit speaking in the scripture , together with right reason as truely subservient , is that whereby we are to resolve all differences , &c. for proof i cited , isa . . . tim. . . joh. . . joh. , . thess . . . where note , that under the term we , ought not to be understood , any person but the papists on the one part , and the baptists on the other , who do deny each other to be the church of christ . now that the church is to defend her self against all that come to spoil her of her church-state , by the scripture onely ( as that which includes her whole strength ) is that which i brought these texts to prove . and first for that place , isa . . . the prophet foreseeing a judgment coming upon israel , even such , as god would hide himself from them ; and the law and testimony should be like a book bound and sealed up ; as ver . & . compared with ch . . , . the prophet likewise foreseeing , that when god should hide his face , israel would enquire of wisards , and such as spoke from familiar spirits ( as saul did , when under the like judgment , as sam. . , , . ) wherefore the prophet , that he might warn the remnant of faithful ones , whom he foresaw would be as wonders amongst the rest , commands them , as from the lord , that when men should say unto them , seek unto such as have familiar spirits , &c. to go to the law , as being their way to go to god himself : for saith he , should not a people seek unto their god ? to the law , &c. and certifies them that by that they should know deceivers ; for , saith he , if they speak not according to this word , [ the law ] there is no light in them : so that i infer thus much , that when such as are enemies to the church come to invade the saints with their deceit , the only infallible way to know them to be deceivers , is , to enquire of god's law and testimony . i know that israel had the testimony or standing oracle , beside the written law. and the church now hath the new testimony open in the church , beside the law & prophets ; & hereunto , i say , the church is only to apply her self , as aforesaid , to find out the deceit of those who would rob her of that inheritance , which she holdeth by the deeds of god's law , and promises , contained in scripture ; by these , as the only infallible rule , she knows those to be lyars , who say they are the church , and are not . and to this agrees the next three scriptures , the very reading whereof sheweth , that when the controversie is between the church and such as pretend falsly to that title , the onely infallible means to refel them , is , the spirit speaking in scripture , &c. for thus saith the first of them : if any man teach otherwise , and consent not to wholsom words , even the words of our lord jesus christ , and the doctrine that is according to godliness , he is proud , knowing nothing , but doting about questions , &c. thus saith the second , he that knoweth god , heareth us : he that is not of god , heareth not us . hereby know we the spirit of truth , and the spirit of error . the third saith thus , whoso transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrin of christ , hath not god. he that abideth in the doctrine of christ , hath both the father and the son. if there come any unto you , and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house , neither bid him god-speed . from these texts it appears , that unless the papists can produce something which they can infallibly prove to be christ's doctrine , beside what is contained in holy scripture ; or , that the apostles may be heard as infallibly by some other means , as by the holy scripture ; or , that the saints received some doctrine for christs , that is not contained in the scripture ; i say , unless they can infallibly shew something of this nature , my answer is good . but if they can produce any other thing of such authority , then i acknowledge my answer to be deficient . howbeit , if any man , or the church her self , do decide a controversie , by insisting upon the scripture , this is no more than my answer included ; for i do not imagine that the church must not pronounce what is contained in the scripture : but if she hath power to speak as from the lord ( in these dayes ) when yet the scripture saith no such thing , then i profess my self short of understanding the power of the church . thess . . . i only made use of this text thus far , that in religious controversies the apostle gives reason her place , and therefore desired to be delivered from unreasonable men . papist . once more you offer to justifie your consequences drawn out of the five texts . but i ask once more , to what purpose did you bring them ? was it not to prove what you had said in your answer to my query , that the scripture , so we took right reason along with us , was sufficient to resolve all controversies in matters of faith ? no rational man can reade your first paper but must think so ; and indeed , otherwise you must have brought them to prove something that was not under debate , which had been impertinent . must not that very assertion of yours be the consequence to these five texts ? and them , have i not reason to cry out , that there never appeared such monstrous consequences ? but , to avoid this inconvenience you fall into the other , and will have some of your texts brought to prove certain propositions , which you had not mentioned in your answer . howsoever , let us now see what you make of them . isa . . . god's people are commanded to have recourse rather to the law , &c. than to superstitious oracles , ad legem magis , &c. and they have a sign given them to convince such oracles of falshood , if they speak not according to the word or prophesie of isaiah . this is the clear sense of that place , out of which you draw this strange consequence . ergo , the scripture , &c. is to resolve all matters of faith. a strange consequence , i say , as will appear , if we turn your euthymeme into a syllogism , thus : recourse is to be had rather to the law ; than to false oracles , whose falsehood appears , if they speak not according to the word or prophecy of isaiah . but if this be so , the scriptures , &c. are to resolve all points of faith. ergo , &c. what a prodigious minor have we here ? how doth it follow , that because god's word is to be more credited than superstitioas oracles ; or , that such oracles are not to be credited , when they speak against god's word : therefore the scriptures , &c. are to resolve all points of faith. i know you have not the word rather in your english translation as we have in ours , but the clear sense of the place bears as much . tim. . . saith , they are proud that teach contrary to the doctrine of christ . ergo , you infer that the scripture is to judge whose doctrine is of pride . this is as mad a conclusion as the last ; for when there is no clear text of scripture for either side , as it often happens , or scripture brought on both sides ; how can the scripture judge whether party be proud ? or , how can it be judge of its own sense , when it is alledged on both sides , who both pretend to have the spirit and reason on their sides ? john . . those that hear not the apostles , are not of god , nor have his spirit . ergo , say you , the scripture resolves who are religious : doth it follow out of this text , that when parties contend , that they hear the apostles , the scripture , can resolve the difference , and pronounce who are religious ? &c. not at all . john . . gives judgement against those that follow not christ's doctrine . you infer ergo the scripture must try whether men bring this doctrine . strange logick : for unless your text proved that the scripture containes all christ's doctrine , which it doth not , your consequence must needs be faulty . thess . . . you say proves , that reason is some wayes necessary to decide controversies in religion . i will not examine the goodness of this consequence , but i am sure you need not have brought scripture to have proved so manifest a truth , which cannot be denied by any , but such as pretend to have so much of the spirit , that me-thinks they should have little need of the use of reason . baptist . concerning my five texts , and what i infer thence , i need not speak much here ; yet it is worthy observing how apparantly you miss the clear sense of isa . . . whilst you restrain the relatives [ this word ] to the word or prophecy of isaiah , whereas it is as clear as the sun at noon , that they ought to be referr'd to the law and testimony ; for thus i read , to the law and to the testimony , if they speak not according to this word . having thus missed the sence of the text , then in all that you say further , you discover a taunting spirit , endeavouring to bespatter me with what dirt comes next to hand . i did not quote any one of the five texts , as taking it singly to prove the whole assertion ; and therefore you did injure my understanding , to argue from them apart , as brought to prove the whole position ; but i brought them to prove such propositions , as being laid together , do amount to so much as my assertion ( as i explicate it ) doth contain . for the first four texts do all of them shew , how god's people ought to try and defend themselves against such as oppose the church and truth of god , as i shewed in my rejoynder : and the fifth , gives reason her place in religious contests . but there is not one of the arguments which i formed from my five quotations , but you deprave and abuse it , by both adding terms of your own , and omitting mine ; yea , sometimes whole sentenoes : and when you have so done , you flout at the conclusions . which dealing is too bad for a sober disputant , it were a very easie thing to turn all your objections here against the scripture as insufficient to resolve differences in religion , upon the church as therefore insufficient to resolve them . for , whereas you say , that when both parties pretend to have scripture and reason on their sides , then the scripture cannot decide the controversie ; might not i as well say , when both parties pretend to have the church on their side ( as that 's the case between us ) the church then cannot decide our difference ? again , where you seem to say , that when both parties contending , do say they hear the apostles , that then the apostles cannot ( as they speak in the scriptures ) decide the controversie : hath not this the same force against the church , when both parties contend they hear the church ? see how you can defend your self , and i doubt not but therein you will defend my arguments for the scripture . and because you do cry up the fathers , &c. for so clear a way to decide all our controversies , i will therefore shew you , that they do clearly avouch the answer which i have given to this your first query , as will evidently appear to the impartial reader of the several quotations which i have before alledged , and which do here follow . the answer to the first query , avouched sufficient by the sentence of divers doctors , both antient and modern . vvhether of us be schismaticks ? ask not me , i will not ask you . let christ be asked , that he may shew us his church . neither must i alledge the nicene council ; nor you the arimi . i am neither bound to the one , nor you to the other ; let the matter be tryed by the scripture . augustine saith , let the scriptures judge ; let christ judge ; let the apostles judge . yea , it is confessed by the papists , that aug. optatus , and basil , summoned their adversaries to the arbitriment of holy scriptures , and did allow the sufficiency of holy scripture to decide the controversies depending between them . in time past , saith chrysostome , there were many wayes to know the church of christ ( viz. ) by good life , by miracles , by chastity , &c. but from the time that heresies did take hold of the church , it is only known by the scripture , which is the true church . again , he saith , the lord then knowing that so great confusion would come in the latter dayes , therefore willed the christians that would take to the sureness of true faith , to have refuge to nothing but to the scripture ; otherwise , saith he , if they regard other things they shall perish , not understanding what the true church is . [ thus my answer is avouched good , as it respects the means to decide the differences which are about the church . next , hear what they say touching such differences as are in the church . ] iren. if there be any disagreement risen up among christians concerning controversies in religion , what better course is there to be taken , than to have our recourse into the most antient churches , [ which must needs be those planted by the apostles , considering the time when he lived ] and to receive from thence , what shall be certain and manifest . augustine . because the scripture cannot deceive , whoso feareth to be misled in the obscurity of this question , let him ask counsel of that church which the scripture , without any ambiguity pointeth out . constantine mag. there are the gospel , the prophets and apostles , which do teach us what to hold in religion ; wherefore expelling all hostile and bitter contention , let us seek the solution of these questions out of the scriptures . thus spake this famous emperor in the council of nice , at what time the bishops had like to have jarred into pieces . thus have i given an impartial relation of what hath passed between the popish querist and my self , in our two last papers , ( which contains the sum of what passed in the other ) as touching this question about the judge of controversies . and now , for further satisfaction , that the scripture , as aforesaid , ought to be admitted the high prerogative of judge in our debates ; consider , that of necessity it must be so . my reason is , because either the scripture , or some other writings , must be our judge , especially in this important question , which is the true church ? for when we contend about her , it is very unreasonable , that any party contending for that title , should be permitted to give judgment in their own cause : as for example , the present assembly of papists say , that they are the true church : and the present assemblies of baptists say , that they are the true church . is it fit that either party contending , should here give judgment decissive ? what then must we do ? why of necessity we must to some writings , whereby to be decided or agreed in this controversie . these writings must be either the scriptures , or some other ; but no other can compare with those , so that they do deserve this prerogative better than any other . the papists ordinary way in this difficulty , is to tell us , that we must here be tryed by the tradition of our fore-fathers ; in which they say , we cannot be deceived : which tradition , they say , is the only thing that is unquestionable , and needs no other ground to stand upon , but it self . and against the scripture's being received , upon its own evidence or authority , they usually do thus object , that before we can receive what it teacheth , we must be assured of its truth . and again , they say , the scripture may not be the judge of controversie , because it may be corrupted , translated , ill interpreted , not rightly understood . and by these , and other like objections , they usually in all their writings , invalidate the scriptures certainty , authority , and sufficiency , that so they advance the authority of their traditions . but let it be seriously considered , whether these objections have not the same force against what they rest upon , which they have against the holy scripture ? first then , whereas they tell us , the scripture cannot teach us any thing , till we be assured of its truth : doth not this conclude against any other thing as strongly ? ought we not to be assured of the truth of the church before we receive her documents ? ought we not to be assured of the truth of that tradition which we receive for the rule of our faith ? but how must we be assured of the truth of the papal church , and tradition ? there is not a man living , that can remember when either began , and so avouch its beginning to be of divine institution , and the continnance of the same ever since its beginning , to have been without any corruption : what then must we do ? why we must search romes records . and then i ask , are they not as questonable , and liable to mis-interpretations , as easily mis-understood as the records of god ? what is now become of these objections , the force whereof is evidently against the papal church and her traditions , of the truth whereof we must be assured before we can be taught by either of them . i say again , there is not a man of all the papists that can evidence rome to have been a church two hundred years ago , and then much less one thousand six hundred years ago . so that of necessity we must to the writings of some men ( whom we never saw write one word ) to find the church . and then i would know why we may not make enquiry at the pen of paul , what the church was at first , and what it ought to be now , as well as at the pen of augustine . cannot the pen of peter the apostle give us as good information in this matter , as the pen of any pope , pretending to be his successor ? if the papists answer , that we know not the pen of peter or paul : we answer , as well as they know the pen of augustine or gregory . if they say paul's writings may be corrupted , and must be interpreted , may be mis-understood . i return the same answer of all other books whatsoever ; yea , those which contains romes tradition . see therefore what is gained by devising objections against the authority or certainty of the holy scriptures . such doings do only tend to the destruction of all faith , making every thing doubtful , and the effect is the ushering in of all uncleanness on the one hand , or if men miss this snare , they are catched in another , viz. to walk at random as their own , or other mens fancy leads them . this is evident by what we have seen in the ranters on the one hand , and the papists and quakers on the other . let us trace this matter a little further , thus . the papists traditions ( most , if not all of which , have been committed to writing several hundreds of years ago ) must speak for themselves , are unquestionable of themselves , must challenge no ground but themselves to stand upon : but the sacred scripture which hath especial promise from god for its preservation , psal . . must have none of these high priviledges allowed it ; is not this a most peccant assertion ? again , peter and paul must be no judges of controversies in religion , as they speak to us in their epistles ; but the popes of rome , dead long ago , and now only speak in their writings , yet they must be our infallible judges in these controversies . the great council of apostles , elders , and brethren , acts . can be no judge of any controversie , though their decrees are yet extant among us ; but the council of trent , who only speak in their decrees , must be our judge , and that so as from their judgments no appeal can be admitted . the apostolical council sends forth their decrees in the name of the holy ghost , and themselves ; and in those their decrees , they prohibit the eating of blood , and strangled things , &c. but the papal councils will send forth a decree directly opposite to this , and yet sign'd with these powerful words ; visum est spiritui sancto & nobis . if we appeal in this matter to the apostolical council , they may not be permitted to pronounce a sentence decissive . but from the sentence of the papal council we must in no wise appeal . can any thing be said more unworthily ? thus then , first , the godly reader may perceive , that whether he be able to answer all the cunning objections that men , by reason of the long experience they have had in the wayes of deceit , have found out ; yet he hath an argument of necessity wherewith to oppose their subtilty . and , secondly , he hath the advantage of all their own objections , against themselves ; yea , against their church , tradition , and all that they stand upon . being seasonably retorted upon them . wherefore i shall conclude with the psalmist's words , psal . . , , , , . they encourage themselves in an evil matter : they commune of laying snares privily ; they say , who shall see them ? they search out iniquities , they accomplish a diligent search : both the inward thoughts of every one of them , and the heart is deep . but god shall shoot at them with an arrow , suddenly shall they be wounded . so they shall make their own tongues to fall upon themselves : all that see them , shall flee away . and all men shall fear , and shall declare the work of god : for they shall wisely consider of his doings . the second part , sheweth , that the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ , for divers important causes or reasons . vve have heard of how dangerous a consequence that papal opinion is , which leads them to set up their own authority ( under pretence of their being the church ) above the holy scripture ; insomuch as they allow it no authority , till it be delivered to us for god's word , by their church ; so that by this doctrine , we must find their church , before we can find the word of god , as it is contained in the scripture . upon which consideration , we shall endeavour to shew , that the present papal church , is not the true church of christ ; and therefore what power soever the church hath , yet they cannot have it ; because they are not the church of christ . the first reason . the present papal church of rome , cannot possibly prove her self to be the church of christ : therefore she is not the church of christ . the first reason maintained . the consequence of the argument no understanding man can deny ; for unless a party pretending to be the church of christ , can some wayes sufficiently prove that they are his church , they cannot reasonably blame any body that refuses so to account of them . and for the antecedent , namely , that it is impossible for the present papal church to prove her self the church of christ , it is evident from this ground , viz. they make both the scripture , and all other writings , depend on their church for their authority ; and therefore they must prove themselves to be the church without the help of any authentical or authoritative writings ; which thing is impossible for them to do . being thus divested of the help of all records , as is more fully shewed above , there remains now nothing for them to lean upon but their own evidence , or the tradition of their fore-fathers ; not that which is contained in any records , but only that which hath been delivered by word from man to man , &c. but alas ! what tradition is this they speak of ? not the tradition of the church to us , till the persons delivering the same , be found to be the church ; which , as before , they cannot be found to be , without the scripture . and for their own evidence , that may not prove them to be the church to those that contend with them ; it cannot avail them , sith each party contending in this case , will , and may , as reasonably as the papists , look that their own testimony should be as available for these , as the other for those . it is as vain here to tell us , they are the church , because the true marks of the church do agree to the papal church , and none else . for , first , the true marks of the church are confessed by the papists , to be found in the scripture ; which scripture they receive not , but from the authority of their church ( yea , their present church ) so that till the scripture can tell us authoritatively which be the marks of the church , no church can be found by those marks ; nor can the scripture tell us of those marks authoritatively , till rome , as a church , give it us for god's word : so then rome must be found the church , before there be any marks to find her by ; which is impossible . as for example : to clear this matter further , the papists say , that holiness is a mark of the true church : but now set the holy scripture aside , and how shall i know holiness from unholiness , without the scripture ? here the papists being in a strait , rather than they will let the law of god , or the scripture , have the preheminence , do answer thus ; that we have a law in our consciences , which dictates what is good , and what is otherwise ; and by this law , even a heathen may judge our church holier than any other congregations of christians . what a miserable plunge ( of heathenism or quakerism ) are they brought to here ? how do they know that a heathen may , by the law of conscience , judge their church to be more holy than any other congregation of christians ? were they ever heathens to know this ? but alas ! what holiness can a heathen judge of ? surely not that which is an infallible mark of the true church ; for this spiritual matter is foolishness to the natural man , nor can he know it , because 't is spiritually discerned . it is true , there is a holiness discernable by the law of our consciences . but this only , is not an infallible mark , that any society is the church of christ ; nor did ever any man ( i am perswaded ) hold forth such a doctrine , that was a faithful minister of the new testament , or spirit . again , what of this kind of holiness , whereof a heathen ( as such ) can judge , is there found among the papists , which may not be found among the baptists ? yea , among those that are opposite to both , as the quakers , and others ; yea , among the very jews and turks may be found as much of this kind of holiness as among the papists , if any credit may be given to histories . sometimes the papists do object the * creed as sufficient , to demonstrate a man to be a member of the church , though he know not whether there be any scripture . but i answer , how shall this be proved to be the creed ? it must not be its own evidence ; for then the scripture may as well speak for it self , which the papists will not allow ; nor can the church of rome confer any authority upon the creed , till they be found to be the church : so then this is the conclusion , rome must be found to be the church , before there be a creed . i do therefore humbly desire these few observations may be seriously thought upon by all sober men , but especially the papists , that so men may give to the holy scriptures , that which is proper to them ; that is , that they may speak , without controul , both for themselves , and every thing else of a religious consideration ; or else all volumns of the antients , and societies of men , pretending to christianity ( as things stand in our dayes ) must depart into utter silence . the second reason . the present papal church of rome , hath no baptism : therefore she is not the church of christ . the second reason maintained . by the word baptism in the argument , i mean only the baptism of water in the name of the father , &c. or , which is all one , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . now that the present papal church of rome hath not this baptism , is evident by this argument , taken from their own confession , viz. the baptism of the true church is found in the scripture . but the baptism of the present papal church of rome is not grounded upon , nor mentioned in the scripture . therefore the present papal church of rome hath no baptism . the first proposition is most clear , from matth. . , . act. . act. . act. . act. . act. . act. . act. . . rom. . gal. . . col. . , . heb. . , . pet. . . and , that the papists baptism is not found in the scripture , i prove thus . because they themselves do confess , that infant baptism is not mentioned in the scripture , nor grounded upon the scripture , nor any scripture for it . see to this purpose , the works of bellarmine ; and a book , entituled , an antidote , written by s. n. a popish doctor ; as also t. b. his end to controversie . in which books you will find the very words which i have repeated . adde hereunto the answer which i received from the author of the seven queries , when i asked him what controversies in religion he could resolve without the written word of god ? he assigned infant baptism , as one that was so to be resolved . so then , we have it pro confesso from the papists own mouths , that their baptism ( which is infant baptism ) is a scriptureless-baptism : therefore say i , it is no baptism . no baptism , i say ; because the church hath but one baptism of water , and it is mentioned in the scripture , and grounded upon it , and much scripture found for it ; so is not infant baptism , which is the baptism of the present papal church . therefore the papal baptism , is no baptism . how can they defend themselves ? will they say , the church hath a scripture-baptism , and an unwritten baptism ? this they must say and prove , or else deny their infant baptism . but , secondly , the present papal church is so adulterated in the manner of the administration of baptism , as that , had they a true subject for baptism , yet , they would be found to have no baptism . this will appear as clear as the light , from the papists own confession ; for they grant , that the antient and primitive way of baptizing , was , by dipping the party baptized , over the head and ears in water ; and that it was their church which changed this way , to a little sprinkling upon the forehead . this is plainly to be seen in a book , entituled , certamen religiosum . this bold change , which men , without any allowance from god , have made in this ministration of baptism , is directly against the scripture . mat. . . mark . . john . . act. . , . rom. . in all which places it's evident , that our lord jesus , john baptist , and the other baptists of those times , did so understand the mind of god in respect of the manner of the administration of baptism , as that they thought it could not be done without so much water as they might go into ( both the person baptizing , and the person to be baptized ) and now , do not all that will presume to satisfie themselves in this thing with a few drops of water put on the face only , from a man's fingers ends , or out of a glass in the midwifes pocket , lay great folly and ignorance to the charge of christ and his primitive followers ? doubtless such , as is not less than the folly of that man , that hath occasion only for one gill of water , and he may take it up at the side of the brook , and yet will needs wade into the middle of a river to take it up ; or a man that hath occasion to wash his hands only , which he may perform very commodiously without wetting his foot , and yet is so simple that he will needs go into the middle of the river to that purpose , especially such a river where there is much water . i say , the practice of sprinkling which the papists and others use , if that answer the mind of god in the case of baptism , doth even thus reflect upon christ and the christians in those dayes . but let our saviours practice herein be justified , and all such practices as tend to the rendring it ridiculous , condemned . the papists only reserve for the defence of infant baptism , is this : they say it is an apostolical tradition , that is , a precept delivered by the apostles word , but not mentioned in their writings . this i shall shew to be utterly false , for divers important reasons . first , no apostolical tradition , tends to the making null or void any apostolical writing . but infant sprinkling makes null and void all that is written in the scriptures , concerning the subject and manner of baptism , in all that part of the world where the papists ( or such as they ) get the civil power on their side : yea , we see that by this means the sons of men are great enemies to the way of god in this matter . how long have many nations lain destitute of the knowledge of the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins , by reason of the interposition of this cloudy tradition of pedo-rantism ? how have men , pretending to be ministers of christ , never , in many generations , preached peter's doctrine , repent , and be baptized , every one of you , for the remission of sins ? note this observation well ; for although the baptism of repentance , &c. hath not been cryed down in the nations of christendom , ( by such as counted themselves the only preachers of the gospel ) yet it was not for that these nations had no need of the practice of baptism ; for they daily have practised something under that notion , which is rheir infant-sprinkling ; so that it 's plain , infant-baptism makes void the apostolical writings : therefore infant-baptism is no apostolical tradition . secondly , infant-baptism is not an apostolical tradition , because no mention is made of it in the first hundred of years after christ . although i am not much read , yet i have used the utmost of my diligence to know the truth in this point , and i have attained to sufficient satisfaction , that the greatest favourer of infant-baptism that yet i have met with , durst not say that ever he saw any record of antiquity that mentioned such a thing , and that the scriptures do not mention it , the papists grant . and because the papists make such boast of the consent which they have in this matter from antiquity , i will therefore here put in something by way of evidence to the contrary . for it is certain that infant baptism , as it was not heard of in the first hundred , so neither was it generally received till above half a thousand years revolved from christ , as is undeniable ; for that it is plain , that the most famous ( or at least , very famous ) christian parents brought up their children without having them baptized ; such were the parents of greg. nazianzen , ambrose , augustine , and others ; yea , the emperour constantius , born of christian parents , was not baptized till he was about thirty years of age * . see also these ensuing testimonies . i will declare unto you , how we offer up our selves unto god in baptism . after that we are renewed through christ , such as are instructed in the faith , and believe that which we teach them , being to live according to the same ; we admonish to fast and pray , and we fast and pray with them ; then they are brought to the water , and there calling on the name of the father , &c. they are washed in it . so saith erasmus , paraphrase on matth. . if they believe that which you teach them , and begin to be repentant of their former life , then dip them in water , in the name , &c. the lord commanded his apostles , that they should first instruct all nations , and afterward baptise those that were instructed : for it cannot be that the body should receive the sacrament of baptism , unless the soul have received before the true faith. our saviour did not slightly command to baptize , but first of all he said , teach , and then baptize , that true faith might come by teaching , and baptism be perfected by faith. haimo saith , in this place ( matth. . ) is set down a rule rightly how to baptize , that is , that teaching should go before baptism : for , he saith , teach all nations , ( and then he saith ) and baptize them : for , he that is to be baptized , must be before instructed , that he first learn to believe , that which in baptism he shall receive : for , as faith without works is dead ; so works , if they have no faith , are nothing worth . beda saith , all they that came to the apostles to be baptized , were instructed of them , and when they were instructed concerning the sacrament of baptism , they received the holy administration thereof . tertullian , who lived about the time when infant-baptism began to appear , did dispute against it , as an unnecessary practice , for divers causes . . for that it is not meet to commit heavenly things , to those who are not capable of keeping treasure of an earthly nature . . for that the sponsors might be endangered . . for that it became them that were to be baptized , to fast , pray , and confess their sins . . because they that receive christ , must ask him ; let them ( that is , little ones ) come therefore , saith he , while they are youths , whilst wherein they come , they are taught , &c. augustine saith , we spend much time in exhorting those whom we baptize — ludovicus vives , commenting upon this place , saith , lest any man should mistake this place of augustine , let him know that in old time it was the custom to baptize none , except they were of full age , and did desire baptism in their own persons , and that several times , and did understand what that mystical water meant , which we see resembled in our baptizing of infants . [ lo here your pedo-baptism is not the old custom of the church . ] the third reason . the present papal church of rome , is a national church : therefore she is not the church of christ . the third reason maintained . . to make the gospel-church national , consequently destroyes the doctrin of conversion , as it is a principle of the doctrin of christ appertaining to the beginning of a christian man : for , if men can regenerate , or beget persons to god in their infancy , then the word of regeneration or new-birth is needless in order to our admission into the church of christ , and so the preaching of faith and repentance must cease ( as it is a principle pertaining to a christian man ) in all those nations which are called christendom , which is a great part of the world. and indeed , experience hath long ago proved this conclusion to be most true ; for since the church ( as they term it ) was national , the word , or work of conversion , hath been little known in the life and power of it : nay , verily , the very term [ conversion ] is become a reproach among our national-churchmembers . but thus to make the word of conversion unnecessary , in order to persons admission into the church of christ , is contrary to the scripture , john . . luke . . matth. . . cor. . , . heb. . , . gal. . , , . matth. . , , . . to make the gospel-church national , puts an end to the doctrine of christ touching that separation , and those divisions , which for the gospel-sake must be in nations and families , as appears from these scriptures ; john . . and . , . acts . , . cor. . luke . , to . and therefore in vain doth any person think to do god service , by compelling families , towns , countries , nations , or many nations , to be of one mind in matters of religion . i say , it is in vain , because the scripture foresees , and also foreshews , that the contrary effects must follow the preaching of the gospel ; and yet they may , yea , and ought to live in one form of civil government : for that is the will of god concerning every soul , rom. . , to . . the gospel-church cannot be national ; because that takes away from her , persecution for the gospel-sake , & makes her become a persecutor : for it is impossible for a church to be national without penal laws , whereby to force men to that kind of worship which the greater part approveth , which may as possibly be false as true . but the true church must not look to be free from persecution , if she live godly in christ jesus ; nor is any thing more † uncomly for her than to punish or persecute men into a conformity to her faith or religious practice , john . , . mat. . . tim. . . luke . . and the greatest part of the revelations do shew , that the church was to be in a suffering condition , and are therefore bid to be patient , until the coming of the lord , jam. . . a national-church cannot observe the discipline of the church of christ ; for , in the case of withdrawing from disorderly persons , they do not only separate men of disorder from the church , both in civil and religious concerns , but they cast them wholly out of the world , from all markets and fairs , yea , quite out of their livelihoods , &c. which kind of excommunication the scripture foresees to be proper to the churches adversary , rev. . , . . if the gospel-church ought to be national , then she was imperfect in point of power in the apostles dayes : for she had not then any power to put hereticks to death for their heresie . but to say , that the primitive church wanted any power to punish any sin , as it concerns the church to punish it , is to disparage the apostolical churches , and is also contrary to the scriptures , which plainly shew they had power then to revenge all disobedience , cor. . , , . the fourth reason . the papal church encreaseth her self more by the carnal sword , than by the spiritual word : therefore she is not the church of christ . the fourth reason maintained . that such churches as are national , do most encrease their numbers , and keep them also when they have them , by the terror of death and penal laws , both experience shews , and reason tels that it cannot be otherwise . how often hath our nation changed their religion , with the breath of a prince ? sometime to popery , and otherwhiles to protestancy , and under o. cromwel to a compound of half presbytery and half independency , according to the temper of those that sat at the stern of affairs ? and now , how are they turn'd again to prelacy ? of which last change , i say , if any have conformed , as judging it their duty to god so to do , those ( though this doth not justifie their way to be good , yet ) are honest men : but if any for self-interest have done it , they are the very dregs of men , and will be any thing , and so nothing . . i remember a notable saying of hillary , who lived about the th or th hundred , and in his dayes the church was a degenerating from her regeneral constitution into a national form , where he saith , ambition doth aid it self by the name of christ ; the church doth fear and compel the people through banishments and imprisonment , to believe her in those things , which she had received through being imprisoned — she that could not be beloved of christ if the world had not hated her , now glorieth to be extolled and beloved of the world , &c. and that the papal church hath ordinarily encreased her self more by terror of the carnal sword than the word of god , doleful histories do declare ; namely these , sleidan comment . a book entituled , the indians tears , or , inquisition for blood : as also , fox his acts and monuments . and here i think it meet to give an instance from one of their own historiagraphers , namely fabinus . he tells us that after austin the monk had gotten a considerable settlement in england , it happened that there was a council assembled in this nation , where austin proposed several things , to which the other bishops could not consent ; but , by your leave , when austin could not prevail by the word ( or rather , his words ) he told them , if they would not submit , they should be compelled , by the wasting that should be made in their country through war and misery . this was not paul's way , cor. . . the fifth reason . the present papal church of rome , labours to keep the world in darkness , and the church also : therefore she is not the church of christ . the fifth reason maintained . the consequence of this argument no man can deny ; for there is nothing more opposit to the true church , than to love , or cause darkness to seize upon any . and that the present papal church of rome labours to keep all men in darkness , is thus proved . . she forbids almost all men to reade the scriptures , and thereupon hath greatly withstood the translation of them into every tongue , as is evident , partly from what history declares , and partly from that which themselves do say . to omit history , hear what they say themselves . in their preface to the reader in the rhemist testament , thus they speak : order was taken by the deputies of the late famous council of trent in this behalf , and confirmed by supream authority , that the scripture , though truly translated into the vulgar tongues , yet may not be indifferently read of all men , nor of any other than such as have express order thereunto of their lawful ordinaries . so that we see the liberty here given , is unlike the liberty given by christ to his enemies , whom he commanded to search the scripture , john . . and the rich glutton's friends are said to have the prophets and moses , luk. . . israel was of old indifinitly required to lay up the book of the law in their heart ; to talk of it as they sate in their houses ; as they went abroad ; they must teach them to their children , and write them upon the posts of their doors , deut. . , to . notwithstanding all this and much more liberty given by the lord both to his enemies and friends , to reade his word , you see the council of trent will have none permitted , but whom the ordinaries permit , to reade the scripture , and they are only such as they judge discreet , &c. pref. rhem. test . is it not strange that men , pretending to be christ's true followers , should thus contradict him ? he allowed that to his enemies , which they will not allow to his friends . sure they have neither heard his voice , nor seen his shape , or , at least , not learned of him . miserable is the gospel-church by the council of trents doctrine , they have not that priviledge which israel under the law was allowed ; and yet they are as strictly bound to bring up their children in the admonition of the lord ; which they cannot do , unless they have the law in their heart , that so they may talk of it to their children . but surely , those that will not let the law come within the sight of our eyes , have no mind it should ever come in our hearts : so then they labour to keep us in the dark . what can they say against mens reading the scripture , which hath not the same force against the hearing of it preached ? did not some conceive as gross opinions concerning christ's saying , men must eat his flesh , as some have by reading them ? the jews thought they were so to be understood , as that they might eat his real flesh ; and that was not a greater nor a lesse error , than is found in the papists , who read the same word . it is doubtless a shrewd sign that those who will not suffer us to see the law of god , do not intend that we shall hear very much of it ; peradventure such points as talk of tythes , &c. yea , it is evident , that they intend not to let us hear much that shall profit us ; for they have devised , that the very prayers and services of their church , be said and sung in a tongue which the people understand not . yea , they tell us , that it is enough for the people to understand that the prayer is made to call upon god in all our desires ; and more than this is not necessary ( they say : ) so that the poor people in the papacy , know not what are the things desired ; only they are told , the prayer is made to god in all that is therein desired . are not these people kept in darkness ? but saith paul , how should the unlearned say , amen ? cor. . that which is most strange , is , that the papists should deliver this dark doctrine , from cor. . then which no scripture more requireth an understanding in those that pray , and in those that joyn with them ; nor doth any scripture more clearly shew us , to how little purpose it is to perform any service in the church in an unknown tongue . read the chapter ; saith paul , if i come unto you speaking with tongues , what shall i profit you ? — but in the church i will speak five words with my understanding , that i may instruct others also , rather than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue . these are paul's words , as the papists themselves translate them . another way whereby they keep men in darkness is this , they cumber mens minds with such a multitude of ceremonies , and repetitions in their prayers , that the mind is sufficiently charged to remember how many times over they must say some two or three words ; nay , it 's evident this is no wrong , witness their beads which serve to supply the defect of their memories . as i remember , there is not less than fifty orations and postulations , &c. which the priest is to make , and act , before the bread be consecrated when they say mass ; and the like doings they have in the most of their services , which i can more desire the lord would deliver them from , than mention . the sixth reason . the present papal church , is generally ( if not only at this day ) gathered of persons unregenerate , or not new born , as the scriptures do require new-birth in that case : therefore she is not the church of christ . the sixth reason maintained . . the scripture saith , that except a man ( or any one ) be born again ( so ) as to be like the winde that bloweth , and that bloweth in such sort , as the sound thereof is heard , he cannot enter into the kingdom ( or church ) of god : but the many millions of infants , whereof the papal church consists mostly ( if not only ) in respect of her members initiation , are not thus regenerate . so that the papal church is gathered ( generally ) of such persons as are not so regenerate , as persons ought to be , and must of necessity be , before they be admitted into the church of christ . the seed of the woman ( or gospel-church ) are all such as have the faith of jesus , and keep the commandments of god , at least in profession ; for that is the thing that is absolutely necessary , in order to any person 's admission into the church of christ , john . , . cor. . , . rev. . ult . gal. . , , . . all the children of the new covenant , or church of christ , do differ from the church under moses , so , as that they , each individual , do so know the lord , as that they need not , in some sort , teach one another , saying , know the lord , heb. . jer. . but either all , or the generality of the papal church , differ nothing from the church under moses , in respect of their knowledge , when admitted into their church , being such as are not capable of the first , or least degree of the knowledge of him . . there appears no more sign of regeneration , or new-birth , in the infants , or members of the papal church , at their admission , than there appears in such as the papists say are not regenerate . now where the spirit of regeneration is , it is not without some demonstrable operation ; for saith christ , the wind bloweth , &c. and thou hearest the sound thereof , &c. so is every one that is born of the spirit . so that i conclude , that the infants whom the papists say they baptize , are not born of the spirit , unless they can give some demonstrative sign of it . . there can be no regeneration in an ordinary way , without preaching the doctrine of christ , rom. . but the papal church is generally ( if not only ) gathered without the word preached , in order to the regeneration of the members , before their admission . therefore they are not regenerate in an ordinary way . and if they have an extraordinary regeneration , let them shew it . the seventh reason . the present papal church of rome , maintaineth the doctrine of devils , and that so violently , as that they punish the non-observation thereof with excommunication and death : therefore she is not the church of christ . this argument maintained . this reason , or argument , may seem to be harshly laid down ; yet if it be true , there is necessity to propound it . and for the truth of it , i desire you weigh what followeth . . to forbid marriage , and to command to abstain from meats which god hath created to be received , of such as believe and obey the truth ; this is the doctrine of devils . but it is well known that the papists do forbid the whole calling of their clergy to marry , and thousands beside of those that live in their monasteries and nunries , &c. and this under pain of cursing and death . you shall hear them speak their own words , wherein they do not only prohibit marriage for ever to such as enter into the ministry ; but if any be married , and afterwards come into the ministry , they wholly deprive such of the enjoyment of their yoke-fellows . thus they speak ; the cause why the church requireth chastity in the clergie , and forbiddeth not only fornication , but all carnal copulation , even in lawful wedlock , is to the end , that god's priests be not divided from him by the clogs of marriage , but be clean and pure from all the fleshly acts of copulation : and this doctrine they teach from cor. . where if you reade the , , , . verses , you may easily learn the quite contrary doctrine . again , they teach from tim. . . that none shall marry that come into holy orders . and , that if any of the clergie , in other countries , had been permitted , in times past , to enjoy their wives , yet they now declare it to be against the apostles rule ; and this they say is the sentence of the council of nice . but surely paul's words are clear contrary ; for he saith , a bishop must be the husband of one wife , having his children in subjection , &c. in further proof of this matter , it is upon record , that greg. . an. . did enforce ministers by excommunication , to leave their wives . and vrban . anno. . decreed , that it might be lawful to make the ministers wives bond-women . and fox recordeth , that it was made felony , by the act of the six articles , for ministers to marry wives , fox , p. . and this cruelty bellarmine defends by a saying of jerome , that a bishop begetting children , shall be condemned as an adulterer . now whereas i say they forbid meats , &c. i do not mean , that it is not meet for the church to fast and pray , and in such a sense to forbid meat . but for their church to forbid one kind of meat above another ; as that we may not eat eggs in lent , and divers other creatures which god hath created , to be received of such as believe . for the true way of fasting , is a total fasting for the time ( unless necessity deny . ) and truly the papal fast of lent is in a manner no fast , which allows the drinking of wines , and the eating to the full of such delicacies as do inflame the flesh as much as eggs , &c. which yet the papists by no means will permit men to eat . for my author tells me , that they make the eating of eggs in lent , a damnable sin . fox , p. . i might fill much paper about their forbidding meats . but to proceed : the eighth reason . the present papal church of rome , is mystery babylon : therefore she is not the church of christ . the eighth reason maintained . . i know , that generally all that dissent from rome , do account her as in her present state to be mystery babylon ; and truly for my part , i have considered of this matter , and i find it is so clearly meant of rome , that even the papists do not wholly exempt her from this name . yet they deny that rome , as now considered , is mystery babylon ; only , say they , it is to be referred to rome in her heathenish estate . but thus i reason ; . if the present papal church of rome be not mystery babylon , then either the papists , or some body else , can shew us a people which better deserves that title . but this no man can do ( so far as yet i have learned ) and therefore ( as yet ) i must say , the present papal church of rome ( together with her daughter churches ) is mystery babylon . and for further proof in this point , i thus reason : . the present papal church hath the marks of mystery babylon ; therefore she is mystery babylon . i prove it thus : one mark of mystery babylon , is a regiment over the kings of the earth , rev. . the woman which thou sawest , is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth . this mark the present papal church of rome hath above all other ; witness the papists own books , t. b. end to controv. chap. , . where he sets up the pope above all kings and emperors ; and plainly calls the popes , kings and monarchs ; and the papal church , he terms an invincible empress , &c. another mark of mystery babylon , is great riches and wordly pomp. that rome , in her present church-state , hath this mark , her doctor , t. b. is my witness . so is helen . geog. p. , . and napier , rev. . which authors shew her riches ( even of the clergy only ) to be quite out of the reach of the best arithmaticks to pass an entrado upon it . add to all other witnesses that of expeperience , and it will shew us , that when their church had her domination in this land , they knew where the best ground lay ; as the ruins of their abbeys do evince . compare all these with rev. . and see if they do not agree . another mark of mystery babylon is , she sits upon nations , tongues , and peoples . rome hath this mark ; t. b. in his end to controversies , chap. , . another mark of mystery babylon is , she enslaves the souls of men , and is drunk with blood . now that the papal church of rome hath this mark , i need only to refer my readers to those large histories of sleidan , fox , and benzo the italian . lastly , as i noted , it is confessed by the papists , that mystery babylon , rev. . & . chapters , is meant of rome ; only they think to free themselves from the force of that blow , by telling us , that it 's meant of rome in her heathenism , and under the persecuting emperors . but this is but a poor shift , as may appear , by shewing , that the antients do write against rome , as mystery babylon , after the persecuting emperors were down ; for the papists say , that constatine put an end to the persecution , when he was converted , which was about the year , and a few odd years ; at which time the papists say , that rome was given up to the pope . . jeroms , who lived about the fourth hundred , writing to eustoch . & marcelus , doth apply these words to rome , viz. fly out of babylon , let every man save his own soul , for babylon is fallen , and is become the habitation of devils . yea , he saith further , as he is quoted by the protestants , that rome is the babylonical harlot , according to the revelation of st. john , appointed for the birth of antichrist , which there should arise , and exercise all tyranny ; and from thence should deceive the whole world with his wicked wiles . and augustine is most clear in this matter , in his book of the city of god ; where he calls rome another babylon in the west . and babylon in the east , first rome : and rome of italy , second babylon . willing men to consider , that in the beginning of the city of god , which was in abraham's time , the first rome , that was , eastern babylon was builded in chaldea . and about what the first babylon was destroyed , lest the city of god should want her enemy , the second babylon , which is rome in italy , was erected . chrysostome saith , antichrist shall invade the vacant empire of rome , and assay to draw unto himself the empires both of god and man. thus it seems that rome was accounted mystery babylon , four or five hundred years after christ ; and if she be not now , what she was then in that respect , i desire to be informed where that blood-drunken fornicatrix , mentioned , revelation . is now to be found . the ninth reason . the present papal church hath not those marks , which they themselves assign as the marks by which the true church can only be known infallibly : therefore the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ . those marks are ; . antiquity . . succession . . vniversality ( of time and place . . visability . . sanctity . . vnity . . miracles , &c. these are the principal . the ninth reason maintained . that the present papal church cannot have the true mark of antiquity , is thus evidenced ; viz. the papal church is a national church ; but no gospel church was national in the first age : therefore no national church hath the true mark of antiquity . the strength of this argument lyeth in the clear difference of the state of the church under abraham and moses , to what it was under christ and his apostles . for , the jewish church , which was to be national , took its form in a national way , even in the very first family where it began , as appears , gen. . where parents , children , and servants too , must all be brought into that church-state forthwith , or not be suffered to co-habit together . which order must be kept in all the families of the jews , as well in respect of their servants , such as they bought with money , as their children , or any other . and so the jewish church , both in its beginning and its continuance , acted forth it self in a way suitable to it self . but when the gospel church began , it is very evident , that it took its beginning in the division of families , and that by vertue of christ's doctrine ; who affirms , that he came to send fire on the earth ; not peace , but rather division : for saith he , from henceforth there shall be fix●● in one house divided three against two , and two against three ; the father against the son , and the son against the father ; the daughter against the mother , and the mother against the daughter , &c. and all this for the gospel sake . here a man must leave father , mother , wife and children ; for this cause ye shall be betrayed , both by parents and kinsfolks . for this cause the unbelieving husband will put away his believing wife . and for this cause the servant may refuse to follow his unbelieving master , being christ's freeman , and yet dwell in his service as a servant notwithstanding . thus it 's evident , that the gospel-church took its beginning in a way quite contrary to the form of a national church , even by turning the world ( or church of the jews ) up-side down , which caused the jews to cry out , men of israel , help . this is yet more evident , by that thundring doctrine of the baptist , when he said , think not , or begin not to say within your selves , we have abraham to our father . no , saith paul , we ( meaning the gospel-church ) which are of faith , are the seed of abraham , and heirs according to promise ; for the promise ( which chiefly ) is enjoyed in the gospel , was not made to such as were born after the flesh , but such as are born after the spirit ; whereupon he saith , we henceforth know no man after the flesh [ or because he descends from the loins of abraham , or any other . ] for if any man be in christ ( so as to be a demonstrable or visible member of his gospel-church ) he is a new-creature . old things are passed away , [ yea , the old priviledge of standing in the church by the father's interest , though the seed of abraham himself ] is [ now ] passed , behold all things [ in this respect ] are become new . whereupon peter contributeth his sentence , and saith , of a truth i perceive god is no respecter of persons , [ but the persons accepted upon a gospel-account , so as to be his church , are such as in every nation fear him , and work righteousness [ which no infant can do . ] but what ? hath god rejected infants wholly , that now he will not shew them so much favour as afore-time ? god forbid . he hath not shut up his tender mercies from them wholly , or in part ; for as they are such , and dying in their infancy through adam's transgression , so in christ shall they be made alive . wherefore look how far soever they fall in the first man of the earth , so far they shall be restored by the lord from heaven ; yea , the gift to them by christ shall exceed the loss they had by adam . but if they live to years of understanding , and become actual sinners against god , then the way appointed for the remission of their sins , is , to repent , and be baptized , every one of them , that they may receive the holy ghost , and so be by it led into all truth ; and attain at the end the salvation of their souls , through jesus christ our lord. another argument whereby it appears the church of christ cannot be national , is this ; no man is bound to become a christian under pain of corporal punishment , as death , &c. but living peaceably as men , no man hath power to compel them to be baptized , or to walk in the christian profession , as is clear from the texts before recited . now take away force in matters of religion , and a national church cannot stand in an absolute national form ; this all experience can testifie . again , that the church of christ at the first , or in the first ages was not national ( in the first method or way wherein a church beginneth to be so , namely , by the admission of infants into the church ) is very evident ; because it is utterly incredible , that the many thousands of infants , of such as in those dayes believed , should be admitted into the church , and not so much as the whisper of such a thing to be found in all the holy writings of the apostles . and beside , i have shewed from the testimony of vives , ( augustines commentor ) that the church had not the custom to baptize infants in old time . it is likewise certain ( if history be true ) that the gospel-church used no compulsion in matters of faith for more than three hundred years after christ . about which time constantine ordained grievous punishments for such as spake against christ ; and allowed the christians , to use the unbelievers hardly . but god did not bless these doings : for constantine became an arrian heretick , and persecuted the bishop that baptized him , as also others that continued faithful . hence then i conclude , that seeing the present papal church of rome hath not the true mark of antiquity , therefore they lose at once , the next three , succession , universality , and visibility : for , antiquity being wanting , no true succession can be found ; because the root of succession , if good , must be the antiquity of it . so take antiquity from them , and then wanting that first age , they cannot be found in every age ; and not being found in every age , especially the first age , then they lose visibility , as themselves propose it for a mark of the church . and for their holiness , i have spoken to that before , and surely it is but like their neighbours . and for their miracles , i have given you a taste of them from loreto : and beside , others do claim that mark as well as they ; yea , the turks produce miracles ; and the protestants do the like ; and others , as the quakers , the like : and the baptists can say of a truth , that god hath done for and amongst them , some things which have exceeded the course of nature . and so their miracles will not more prove them a church , than the miracles of others will prove the contrary , unless they can prove the others to be illusions . and that they have not the mark of unity , is evident , if history may be heeded ; for , saith my author , there is an hundred sects of monks and fryars amongst them , and some of them so divided , as they burnt one another for matters of religion . and for different opinions , there are no less than three hundred . see fox act. and monument . p. . and willit , in his book called , tetrastilon papis . i know the papists do make a great deal of noise about their pastoral succession , as if they could derive it from man to man , up to the apostle peter . but i find the learned protestants making it a great question , whether ever peter was bishop of rome , or not . and jerom is said to have seen some old books , which shew , that narcissus ruled the roman church , when paul saluted him and his family , in his epistle to the romans . no small contention is there likewise among the learned , whether linus or clement were the second bishop of rome : so that this pastoral succession the papists pretend to , meets with shrewd objections in the very first and second person of that line . against the uninterrupted continuance of their pretended succession , many things are objected : as , that there were sometimes three , and sometimes two popes , and that for more than twenty years time together ; so that no man could tell where the true pastoral authority lay . and then comes in that strange disaster of joan the female pope , who for almost three years cut the chain of this pretended succession . this thing is famous in history . lastly , although the papists could prove a continued succession of persons claiming the title of universal bishop , yet this would not justifie them all to be the pastors of christ's church . for these two rules are given us even by the antients ; . that peter left his innocency hereditary as well as his seat ; and that he which hath not the one as well as the other , is not peter's successor . . that it is not the chair , but the doctrine that maketh a bishop . now , dly , add but paul's rule in this matter , tim. . and titus . and then i am bold to affirm , that many popes of rome were not the true successors of peter in pastoral authority . for i find it laid to the charge of divers popes , that they were drunken-whoremongers , theeves , given more to war than christ , rooted in all unspeakable sin ; furious men , prophane scoffers of christ ; incestuous persons , murderers , poysoners of their own parents and kindred ; open sodomites or buggerers ; blasphemers , incorrigible hereticks , enchanters ; callers upon the devil to help them to play at dice ; drinkers of the devil's health , and traitors to princes . these things are so notorious and evidently true of the popes of rome , as that the papists do not deny them . t. b. end to controvers . and the author of the seven queries , as you may see in part before . yea , bernard was not a little moved with the wickedness of the popes of rome , when he called them , tyrants , defrauders , raveners , traytors , darkness of the world , wolves and devils . and , can we think that succession to be good which is derived from devils ? i need say no more . see , for the proof of all that i have said , these books ; fox act. & monument . willit synops . prediaux's introduct . the tenth reason . the present assemblies of baptized believers , and they only , are the true visible church of jesus christ : therefore the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ . the explanation of this reason , or argument . this reason or argument is not so to be understood , as if we do shut all men out of heaven who are not members of our church . no verily : this is the express doctrine of the papists : for they say , that out of the church is no salvation ; and by church they mean , only those that adhere to the papal church of rome : and hereupon they teach expresly ( and so do some protestants also ) that without baptism , or the desire of baptism , &c. none can be saved : and therefore it is that they give power to midwives to baptize children sometimes between the womb and the world. that which we teach , is this , that the ordinary way appointed for men to receive salvation in , is , the preaching of repentance and remission of sins to all nations , in the name of jesus christ ; and the administration of baptism , as a pledge thereof , to all that give acceptance to these glad-tydings ; and upon this account this ministration is called , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . and we do teach , as a most infallible doctrine , that without profession of faith , manifestation of repentance , and being baptized with water in the name of jesus christ , &c. no person can be orderly admitted into the church or kingdom of god on earth . and that therefore it concerns every man , living to years of understanding , and having the gospel tendred to him , only to look for salvation this way , as he will answer it before the lord , for contemning god's ordinary way , and presuming to challenge the grace of eternal life in a way of his own devising . nevertheless , we do not hence conclude , that all persons shall be damned that seek not life in this way . for , first , no infant can seek for it in the way which the gospel proposeth life to men of years : yet surely it is a most cruel doctrine to say , that any infants dying in their infancy shall be damned in hell , because ( as one very well said ) god will not damn any persons for that which they cannot help . again , in rom. st . and d . chapters , paul teacheth , that if the sons of men act forth themselves in a way of love , fear , obedience , and reverence to their creator , according to the means of light vouchsafed to them , that this shall be as much as shall be required of them , in the day when god shall judge the secrets of all men by jesus christ ( for god will not gather where he hath not strewed ) at which time , god will not judge them by the law that never had it . howbeit , let all that have it ( i mean his written law ) expect to be judged by it . and therefore , though we will not presume to judge of the final state of this or that society of men professing conscionably this or that form of worship , but leave that wholly to the lord ; yet we will not cease humbly to beg of all such persons in the name of jesus christ , that they having his law , would carefully observe the terms whereupon life is held forth unto them , and become such glad receivers of the word , as is mentioned , acts . . then they which gladly received the word , were baptized : and the same day were added to the church about three thousand souls . the argument thus explained , i shall now endeavour to make it good . the tenth argument maintained . that the present assemblies of baptized believers , and no other present assemblies of men , are the true church of christ , i prove , thus : either the present assemblies of baptized believers , or else some other assemblies now in the practice of infant * baptism , must be the true church of christ ; because without baptism , the papists say ( and say truly too ) there can be no true church of christ at this day : now these two wayes of baptizing only ( i mean of water-baptism ) is pretended as necessary in order to a visible church-state : viz. the dipping or baptizing persons upon their personal profession of faith , as the present assemblies of the baptists do practise ; or baptizing ( or rather sprinkling ) of infants without personal profession of faith , as the present national churches do practise . for most undoubtedly , the true and legitimate claim to this title of christ's church , must be found in one of these two parties : and that no national assembly , gathered together by pedo-baptism , can fairly claim this title , i have shewed before , whither now i refer my reader . and for the evincing yet further , that the present assemblies of baptized believers are the true visible church of christ , i thus argue : they , and they only , have the true ecclesiastical marks of truly antient primitive or apostolical gathering , constitution and government : therefore they , and they only , are the true church of jesus christ . these three points , namely , gathering , constitution and government , i take ( if right ) to be the infallible marks of a true church . and that the present assemblies of baptized believers , and they only , have them , will be evident to him that considereth what they were at first , and how they agree with what in these respects is only found in the assemblies of the baptized congregations . the truly antient , primitive and apostolical gathering , in respect of the first means used in order thereunto , was the preaching repentance and remission of sins , or the gospel unto every creature ; and upon their conviction , to command them , as from the lord , to be baptized , every one of them , in the name , &c. as appears , matth. . , . mark . , . acts . . acts . . acts . , . and herein onely the present assemblies of baptized believers do closely follow christ's primitive ministers . the primative and apostolical gathering of the church of christ in respect of the subjects gathered , were only such , as through the virtue and prevalency of the word preached , or made known , did give a demonstration of their regeneration by the profession of faith , and manifestation of repentance , and being dipped in water in the name of the father , &c. for the proof whereof i appeal to those several scriptures alledged against the gathering of christ's church of such persons , as of whose regeneration no demonstration is or can be given , answerable to what the scripture doth require , in order to persons admission into the kingdom of god or church on earth . and , secondly , i appeal to the practice of the apostles acting , in pursuance of that commission given them in that behalf . and , thirdly , i do appeal to the churches themselves , which were gathered by the apostles , as they are described to us in these several texts following . these texts do shew to the diligent reader , that here is such things spoken of this numerous church , as is necessarily exclusive of any infants being admitted into their society , as to participate of any church ordinance : and the like will appear to the scripture-searching soul , in all those other churches ; as the respective places will sufficiently convince . i have it freely granted , under the hand of a learned clergy-man , that churches , at the first , were gathered only as we affirm : but he tells me , that when persecution ceased , god took in all nations , or whole nations ; which hitherto he hath not proved . the church at jerusalem . acts . , , . acts . , . heb. , , & , chapters . the church at samaria . acts . , , , , , . the church at cesaria . acts . , , , , , . the church at antioch . acts . , , , . acts . . with acts . . the church at philippi . acts . , , , , , , , , . phil. . , , , , . the church at thessalonica . acts . , , , . thess . . , , . the church at colosse . coloss . . , , . coloss . . , , . the church at corinth . acts . , , , , , , , . cor. . . the church at rome . acts . . rom. . , . the church at ephesus . acts . , , , , , , . ephes . . , , . the church at galatia . gal. . , , , . gal. . , , , , , . these scriptures , duely considered , shew , that all those famous churches were gathered in a way contrary to that of the national churches , and consonant to the way of the present baptized churches . and be it here observed , that no man ever yet could shew by any record of such authority as may suffice to be a foundation of faith in this case , that by the apostles any were ever admitted into the church in their infancy . wherefore look well upon the scripture , and then upon the gathering of the churches of the baptists , and you will find that they , and they only , have the true antient primitive or apostolical-mark of church-gathering . of constitution . they onely can be truly constituted that are rightly gathered , which the baptized churches onely are . the primitive constitution of the church consisted principally in these two heads ; viz. free-fellowship in the doctrine of the apostles ; acts . , , , . job . . , , . act. . . thess . . , , . john . . rev. . . no force of a worldly nature was used in the begetting or continuing her fellowship , for it was a mutual consent . the second thing pertaining to the constitution , consists in the disposing of her members to those places to which they are fitted to serve in the body , cor. . . with vers . . . acts . , . now that the present assemblies of the baptized believers , have this form of constitution in both respects , is evident to all that will take knowledge of their constitution . of government . the true ancient primitive and apostolical government of the church , was only spiritual , and did recide not in the pastors apart from the church , but in the pastors together with the church ; yet so , as that those to whom the church hath committed her power , are the instruments , that in the name of christ and his church , are to exercise government , matth. . , . cor. . , , . tim. . . & . . this government consisteth in these things ; exhortations , rebukes , reproofs , &c. with all long-suffering and doctrine , tim. . . and if this prevail not with the offenders , then is the power of excommunication to be exercised , to the with-holding their priviledges in the church , and to the delivering them up to satan for the destruction of the flesh ; and for saving the sinner from his sin . and if this prevail not , then the sinners sin is retained , till the day of judgment . but if the sinner be humbled , the sin is by the church to be remitted , and the offender restored , matth. . , . cor. . , , , , . thess . . , , . tit. . . joh. . . and this government is to be exercised without partiality , tim. . . and without respect to filthy lucre , pet. . . and without domination or lordship , cor. . . pet. . , , , . thess . . , , . now that this goverment is only found in the present assemblies of baptized believers , is thus proved ; out of the church it cannot be , and in the church it must be , ephes . . till all the saints be perfected ; and that this society , and no other , can be the church , i have also proved ; and for further evidence i refer every one to the exercise of the present churches of baptized believers , in point of ecclesiastical government . as for other marks , it is needless to insist upon them ; for that church which hath these , cannot be without the other , so far as they are necessary . yea , let it be well observed , that that church which hath true antiquity , is the church alone , which hath the promise of succession , or whatsoever else is needful in a way of necessity in order to her being : and therefore , though we could not prove by history , those things which many make great boast of ; yet , having the most certain mark [ antiquity ] we have the other in promise , and therefore must believe that the church hath not failed of the accomplishment of them ; for histories ( some of them ) be quite lost ; and others , partly silent , and partly contradictory about these things . again , if history did mention an un-interrupted continuance of baptized churches , such , i mean , as we contend for , yet it would be but testis humano , and so no foundation of faith : and beside , it would suppose , that the church of christ is so beholding to humane history , as it 's impossible for her to prove her self the church of christ without it , though she have the holy scripture . but this is surely to make the church to stand upon too sandy a foundation . the end . the printer to the reader . courteous reader . the author being at a great distance , so that he could not attend the press , this treatise was hastily read over by a friend of his , who having observed these few faults , desires thee to correct them with thy pen , as also any other which thou shalt meet with , that probably he hath overseen . page . line . for will allow , reade , will not allow . p. . l. . f. these following , r. in these things following . p. . l. . f. they advance , r. they might advance . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e august . contra max. l. . c. . mar. . notes for div a -e these were both general councils mat. cor. cyprian serm. penet . gelas . consec . dist . . aug. de nat. & grat. aug. in iohn . tract . . aug. ad fortunat . august . prolog . l. . de trin. orig. in jer. hom . . * the apostles are here excepted gerson exam . of doct. panor . chap. signif . * note , there is not the word as in my words , only i say the same , that is , god must take up our quarrels ; and how that must be , is shewed in my answer following . heb. . . * not denying christ to be her foundation in the main . eph. . . chrisost . hom. in mat. aug. cont . petil . c. aug. cont . max. l. . c. s. n. antidot . chrysost . hom. in matth. iren. l. cap. . aug. . tome cont . ere 's . author . qu. t. b. end to contro . author of the . queries author of the . queries * it would be here noted , that neither the marks of unity , universality , &c. nor the creed , do prove a people that hath them all , to be the church ; because none of them mention baptism , without which there cannot be a visible church . * see a book , entituled , a well grounded treattise concerning baptism . justin mart. in or at . ad autho. pium . jerom. super mat. athan. in serm . . cont . arrian . haimo . in postil . sup . text beda super act. . tertul. qui sunt bapt. parvil . aug. de civitat . dei. † cor. . . hillar . contra auxen . willit . synops . rhem. test . annot. rhem. test . annot. dist . cap. . fab. chron. rhem. test . annot. in rev. . aug. de civitat . dei , lib. . chrys . in rev. . luk. , , . mat. , . luke , . . cor. . , , , , , . mat. . . cor. . , , . gal. . , . acts . rom. . , , . rom. . , . acts . , to . fab. chron. th part . yet this eusebius doth seem to contradict . willit . synops . papis . jerome , in ep . ad rom. luk. * alias , rantism hear the church, or, an appeal to the mother of us all to all the baptized believers in england, exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth, according to the scriptures : together with some farther considerations of seven queries, sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire, concerning the judge of contriversies in matters of religion : in three parts / by thomas grantham. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) hear the church, or, an appeal to the mother of us all to all the baptized believers in england, exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth, according to the scriptures : together with some farther considerations of seven queries, sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire, concerning the judge of contriversies in matters of religion : in three parts / by thomas grantham. grantham, thomas, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. "hear the church, &c or, an epitome of the chief controversies between papists" ... london, has special t.p. and forms the third part. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -- doctrines. theology, doctrinal -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion hear the church : or , an appeal to the mother of us all. being an epistle to all the baptized believers in england ; exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth , according to the scriptures . together with some farther considerations of seven queries , sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire , concerning the judge of controversies in matters of religion . in three parts . by thomas grantham . and they shall turn away their ears from the truth , and shall be turned into fables , tim. . . but i will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth , and there is none that holdeth with me in these things but michael your prince , dan. . . london , printed in the year , . to the reader . there is nothing , which men sincerely religious , do more heartily desire , than that all men were so too ; and because they are fully satisfied that they are in that very way which most truly leads to life , they therefore strive that all may know it and walk in it . and truly this is my case , my hearts desire and prayer to god for all men is , that they may be saved . and as i believe it hath pleased god to shew me the path of life , i cannot but do my best to shew it to others ; for as some by their labours , have been helpful to me , so i hope mine may be helpful to others . when i call the primitive christian church at jerusalem , the mother of us all , i allude to that place , gal. . . interpreters , ( so far as i have observed ) take jerusalem there , for the gospel catholick church ; now this church had its beginning , and this beginning was at jerusalem ; and because in the progress of christianity in the world , for near one thousand seven hundred years , there has abundance of errors crept in , and much truth in the antient simplicity of it rejected , i think it highly rational , that ( all prejudice being laid apart ) men should seek with the greatest diligence , for their greatest security , into the state of christs gospel-church , as by himself established ; for whatsoever has not been planted by our heavenly father , is nigh to its being rooted up . god almighty direct us all , is the hearty prayer of thy friend , thomas grantham . let the reader further take notice , that these papers were originally written upon several occasions ; otherwise some things repeated , would have been otherwise . let thy discretion bear with this . hear the church . the first part . containing , by way of preface , a particular consideration of the state of the first christian church at jerusalem , and the reasonableness of appealing to her , as the mother of us all. it is evident to all such as have conversed with the histories of the ages , which have been since the coming of our lord , to make known and establish all things in the kingdom of grace , in the first church at jerusalem ; that there hath been great striving among the christian churches for some honour and prerogative above the rest . sometimes the church at alexandria , sometimes the church at constantinople , and especially the church at rome , pressing very hard for precedence of honour , and preheminence of power ; few minding the poor afflicted church at jerusalem , the true mother of all true christian churches ; when yet the holy ghost hath left a high commendation upon those who do follow her , both in the effectual reception of the gospel , not as the word of such or such a man , ( though preached by apostles ) but as it is in truth the word of god , thess . . , . and also ( not in persecuting , but ) in suffering like things of their countrey-men , as they did of the jews . and we desire , and hope that there may be yet , all due consideration had by all christians in these days , of the heavenly frame and holy walking of that mother-church . unto whom was committed , in the first place , the principles of the oracles of god ; unto whom our dearest lord was a personal minister , and did actually dispense to , and communicate with them , in the divine mysteries or ordinances of the christian religion ; upon whom was poured the most excellent gifts and graces of the holy spirit of promise . it was this church , from whom ( according to the prophets ) the law of christ should first go forth , isa . . . mich. . , . here was the house of the lord established in the top of the mountains , and exalted above the hills , that all nations might flow unto it : an honour not given to other churches , cor. . . what , came the word of god out from you ? no , this was the glory of another , for out of zion shall go forth the law , and the word of the lord from jerusalem . which by special order from christ was fulfilled , when he gave commandment to his apostles , that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name , in all nations , beginning at jerusalem , luk. . . and here it was that the spirit gave utterance unto the apostles , to preach in all languages , that then some of all nations ( who were at that very time at jerusalem ) might hear from thence the joyful sound of the gospel , and consequently , keep the same holy doctrine in all ages and nations , as it was there delivered , and confirmed by divers signs and miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost , math. . , . heb. . . act. . forasmuch then , as all churches , in all ages and nations , are indispensibly bound to follow this church , in the observation of all things whatsoever christ commanded them ; we hold our selves concern'd , at this time , to declare our unfeigned assent unto the truth of the gospel , as it was here delivered ; and our humble resolution to keep the ordinances of christ , as they were here practised ( not doubting but the same was received in all churches at the first ) being confident of this very thing , that a safer way cannot be found for the security of our souls , from the manifold errors , which since the plantation of this church , have been obtruded upon the consciences of men , in most parts of the christian nations . to the intent then that we may avoid error , and cleave to truth , we shall consider particularly ( though very briefly ) the frame of this heavenly building , in respect of her foundation , her form of government , and the way of her worship , in order to her perfection . and first , we find her foundation-principles to consist in six particulars , called , the beginning of the word of christ , which articles are therefore called the foundation , because of the relation they have to christ , who is a foundation to his church , as held forth in his own doctrine , and other foundations than christ so held forth , can no man lay . of such importance are these sacred principles , that we find the ancient christians used to call them the christian catechism . chrysostoms , testimony is this ; that all these are fundamental articles ; that is , that we ought to repent from dead works , to be baptized into the faith of christ , and be made worthy of the gift of the spirit , who is given by imposition of hands ; and we are to be taught the mysteries of the resurrection and eternal judgment . this catechism , saith he , is perfect . and indeed in the whole new testament , we meet not with such an excellent epitome of the christian doctrine as in this place , which was written to this mother-church . 't is true , we have some mention of a form of doctrine delivered to the believing romans : and timothy is commanded to hold fast the form of sound words , which he had heard of st. paul ; christ is said to be the apostle and high priest of our profession , the author and finisher of our faith , we are willed to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints . but none of these places do shew us , as the text under consideration , what this form of doctrine , this form of sound words , this profession , and this faith was , in respect of the composition , and foundamentality of them ; nor can there any thing be assigned , that is so properly the analogy or rule of faith , as these principles of catechism . happy had it been , if all christian churches had held fast this catechism , though no more had ever been composed ; unity in the truth would have been better maintained by this one , than by so many as are now extant . and sure this being of divine composure and authority , the principles of the oracles of god , the beginning of the word of christ , must needs outweigh all others , being but of human composition . to begin with the first principle of this church , let us consider . . repentance from dead works . we are first to consider why repentance is put in the first place , even before faith ; sure it is because no unrepenting sinner can have the faith of justification ; therefore this principle of the christian faith must follow repentance . there is indeed a faith ( which we may call the faith of mankind ) to believe there is a god , that will both punish sinners , and reward the righteous , and this faith must needs precede repentance , heb. . . this repentance , as it was a principle of this mother-church , comprehends three things , a true sence of sin , in the exceeding sinfulness of it ; in which respect it is said , they were pricked at the heart , and cried out , or said , men and brethren , what shall we do ? act. . . which is accompanied with godly sorrow , and with amendment of life , without which , repentance is rather to be repented of , than to be esteemed any part of the foundation of christian religion ; repent ye therefore , and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out . act. . . without which repentance , there is no remission . luk. . . except ye repent , ye shall all perish , saith our saviour . how blessed had it been , if this doctrine had been preached , and men brought to the obedience of it , before they had been admitted to membership in the church of christ ? the not keeping to this rule , has filled all national churches with unregenerate , unconverted persons , to the scandal of the christian religion . . of faith towards god in this mother-church . the excellency of the faith of this mother-church , appeared in these things : that they gladly received the word of the gospel of their salvation . act. . . to the illumination of their souls , and the expelling the darkness of errour and unbelief ; by this faith they had their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their confidence in god had a great recompence of reward , in the love and expectation of which , they willingly endured a great fight of afflictions , whilst they were made a gazing-stock , both by reproaches , and suffering the spoiling of their goods with joyfulness ; and were willingly companions with , and charitably compassionate towards , those that were in bonds for righteousness sake , working the work of god , ministring to the saints , labouring in love : all which are arguments of true and lively faith. heb. . , . heb. . , , , . he that reads and considers this excellent epistle , written to this mother-church , wherein we may be sure no new doctrine is delivered but the same corroborated which they had received , shall find that the true knowledge and belief of christ was amongst them , in respect of his divinity , chap. . in respect of his humanity . chap. . in respect of priestly office and sacrifice , with all other offices to which he was appointed of god , in the residue of the epistle , of which we cannot now speak particularly . . of the doctrine of baptism in this church . the lord christ had fully taught the guides of this mother-church the doctrine of baptism both by word and example ; and thereby had informed them of a three-fold baptism . the first delivered by precept , himself making the people disciples , by teaching them to repent and believe the gospel , and then appointing his disciples to dip them in the river , in which respect it is said that jesus made and dipped ( or baptized ) more disciples than john , mat. . . john . . john . . his own example being an unquestionable rule for the manner of baptizing , he being dipped of john into jordan , as the greek hath it , mark . . and then coming up out of the water . and of this whole church it is said , their hearts were sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their bodies washed with pure water . for baptismal water is therefore purer , because it is sanctified for our religious use , both by the person of christ , and by the word of god. and of this church , was first required , that every one of them should repent , and then be baptized ; and of them it is also said , that they that gladly received the word preached by st. peter , were baptized , acts . , . they were also instructed concerning the baptism of the holy spirit ; it being the promise of the father made to all the called of the lord , and was particularly applied to them , and poured upon them in the way of faith and obedience . to be willing to be baptized with afflictions for christ and the gospels-sake , they were also taught by our blessed saviour in his discourse with some of his disciples , and by his own sufferings , luke . . of which they were also partakers , heb. . . as also all that will live godly in christ jesus must expect the same . and it would be considered by what rule any man can take upon him to make baptism the first principle , seeing christ himself has made it the third principle ? and by what rule any man can call sprinkling baptizing ? dare they speak as they act ? that is , dare they say , i sprinkle thee in the name of the father ? &c. would not their conscience flie in their face if they should so speak ? and yet behold , they prevaricate in action , and lye in expression in that which they call their baptism ; god will surely send the proudest prevaricators in this case a quo warranto for their presumptuous dealing herein . of the laying on of hands in this church . there are two great blessings belong to all true christians , remission of sin , and the gift of the holy spirit ; the first is consigned to then in sacred baptism , the second in prayer , with the laying on of hands , in which way this mother-church received this blessing , as is evident from the ennumeration and order of the principles of her catechism , and also from this testimony , that great grace was upon them all , acts . . as also in that it is expresly said , that this church continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine , a principle whereof is prayer with laying on of hands ; and from this church this doctrine and holy practice was carried by the apostles to samaria , acts . for it is not to be imagined they would there innovate , a practical principle , which had not first been taught in the church at jerusalem . but god bearing witness to this service of prayer and laying on of hands at samaria , with the same blessing of the holy spirit , fore-received at jerusalem , confirms it as an acceptable and needful service for all churches . and accordingly it was received in the times next succeeding the apostles days , as many witnesses testifie , amongst whom tertullian thus , dehinc manus imponitur , &c. after baptism the hand is imposed by blessing , calling and inviting the holy spirit . tunc ille sanctissimus , &c. then that most holy spirit most willingly descends from the father upon the bodies which are cleansed [ meaning in baptism ] and blessed . of the resurrection of the dead taught and believed in this mother-church . in this church it was where the apostle gave witness with great p●wer of the resurrection of the lord jesus , in whose resurrection assurance , yea very full assurance is given to all men , that there shall be a resurrection of the dead , both of the just and the vnjust . it was here that our saviour shewed himself alive after he had been dead , by infallible proofs , being seen of his disciples forty days , conversing with them of the things concerning his church and kingdom . it was here that many dead bodies of the saints did arise , and come out of their graves , and went into jerusalem , and appeared to many , after christ was risen ; which was a full proof , that the resurrection is of the same numerical bodies which are laid in the graves , disrobed only of mortality and all imperfections . and this is that resurrection of the dead here called a principle of christ's doctrine , and of the foundation of this mother-church . of the eternal judgment believed by this church . it was to the guides of this church to whom our saviour first made known this great priviledge , that they should sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of israel , at that time when he should sit upon the throne of his glory , mat. . , who also is appointed of god to be the judge of quick and dead , act. . . which great article is here recounted among the principles of catechism , heb. . . and called the eternal judgment , not only for that it is the last judgment , but because the effects of it shall be perpetual , the pains to be imposed in this sentence of judgment shall be of eternal duration to all wicked men , who have contemned the gospel of their salvation , and judged themselves unworthy of eternal life , even that life which then shall be given to eternity , to all such as have held fast the beginning of their confidence , and the hope of this their rejoycing stedfast unto the end , heb. . . as therefore the tares are gathered and burnt in the fire ; so shall it be in the end of the world. the son of man shall send forth his angels , and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend , and them that do iniquity : and shall cast them into a furnace of fire ; there shall be wailing , and gnashing of teeth . then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father . who hath ears to hear , let him hear . matth. . , , , . lo the eternal judgment taught by christ's own mouth , let all men be admonished to prepare for this judgment , for the coming of the lord draws nigh . of the farther order and manner of worship used in this mother-church . this did especially consist in frequently assembling themselves together , to teach and preach jesus christ , acts . . or for the ministring of the word of god and prayers , acts . . in which we find no liturgies , or forms of prayer devised or imposed by the apostles , but these services were performed by the aid of the holy spirit , which as they were given for the work of the ministry , so 't is evident they have a remanency in the true church till the whole be perfected , eph. . and it is this blessed spirit which helps the church to make ▪ intercession according to the will of god , rom. . . they were all very frequent at the lord's table breaking the sacred bread , in remembrance of the lord christ , giving thanks to god by him , acts . , . nor needed they any mass-book or common-prayer-book , to direct them in either : christ's own ▪ institution of his holy table , and the holy prayer which he had taught his disciples , with other heavenly rules contained in the holy scriptures , was abundantly sufficient , and are so still , to every faithful man of god [ and minister whom god and his church hath called to that work ] to furnish him to every good work . it is also excceding plain that the holy table of the lord is here called the breaking of bread. and therefore , though that holy bread and wine be the body and blood of christ , yet they are these , in such sort , as they are also the bread of the lord , and the cup of the lord , ▪ cor. ▪ . and forasmuch as the apostle here , and in the next verse , does expresly call the same things , by these different titles , the body and the blood : the bread and the cup : we must of necessity take him to speak figuratively in one of these , but in the latter , to wit , bread and the cup , we have no figure ( save that the wine in the cup is taken for the cup , which is an usual form of speaking ; ) and therefore of necessity these words , body and blood , must be understood to be mystically , spiritually , or figuratively in the bread and wine , and not the bread and wine to be mystically , spiritually , or figuratively , in the body and blood of christ . it is also as certain that the whole church ( this mother-church , acts . ▪ ) did then receive both the bread and cup of the lord , as that any one of them did partake of both , the whole service being expressed by a synecdoche , a part for the whole , which yet will better appear , in that this ordinance ought to be received by every recipient , as he is a member of christ , not as he is a minister : 't is true , as i am a minister i dispense this mystery , but i receive it as a member , saith st. paul ; for ye being many , are one bread , and one body . for we are all partakers of that one bread. it was unto this church , or the guides of it , unto whom our blessed saviour delivered that mystical doctrine , which offended so many of his disciples , john . . verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood , ye have no life in you , which yet cannot be rightly understood of a corporal eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , because he expresly says , verily , verily , i say unto you , he that believeth on me , hath everlasting life , verse . and it is certain there were many that did truly believe on him at that time , among whom s. peter , and the rest that stood by him , when so many forsook him . now these things must all be true . . that none of christ's disciples had life in them at that time , but such as did eat the flesh , and drink the blood of christ . . that s. peter and the rest of the faithful , had eternal life in them at that time ▪ . that the lord's table was not yet instituted ; and therefore from these premises it follows that our saviour speaks not here of his disciples now eating and drinking his flesh and blood in the lord's table , and therefore cannot with any shew of truth or reason , be understood of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood carnally , or corporally , but spiritually , even by believing in him . of the several orders of ministry in this mother-church . this church was endowed with a three-fold order of ministry ; . messengers or apostles , whose work was more especially to gather , constitute , and take care for the church in general . . elders , whose work was especially to feed the flock committed to them in particular . . deacons , whose work more especially was to take care of the poor , and to distribute the alms of the church to the ends for which they were given , and consequently all churches ought to maintain this order of ministry , unless they can shew that god has repealed this ministery , in part or in whole . 't is true , some things were pertinent to the apostles here , which were temporary and extraordinary , which churches in after-ages are not to expect ; but it is also true that some things were ordinary , and fixed in that office , for the continual use of the church , and therefore to remain for ever viz. their care for all churches , their travels and labours to plant and settle new churches , their withstanding false apostles , as themselves are true apostles . their authority to appease strife and contention which may arise among particular pastors and churches , which things being demonstrated in our christianismus primitivus ( to which we refer ) we shall not here enlarge . this part of the apostolical office , was conferred on many in the apostles days , who were also entituled the angels of the churches , rev. . , &c. which in english , is , messenger of the churches . of this order was james the lord's brother in this church at jerusalem , and such were timothy , titus , sylvanus , andronicus and junia , with others . a ministry as needful as any , both for the unity of churches , and the management of the most important affairs of the gospel , both in the church and in the world , as experience may convince men if nothing else will do it . and here it were easie to bring in the full test of the best antiquity , but this letter will not bear it . of the discipline or government of this mother-church . it was unto the guides of this cuhrch to whom our blessed lord first gave rules for the government of his church , mat. . whence we learn that in cases of personal trespasses , and sins of infirmity or weakness , all possible love , patience and charity , should be exercised by one christian towards another , and the offender , upon confession of his fault , forgiven , unto seventy times seven offences : so abundantly should charity appear among the members of christ . but it was also in this church where wilfull iniquity was punished with great severity , as the hypocrisie and deceit of ananias and saphira ; and the like severity was shewed against simon magus for his pride and covetousness , in aspiring to a ministry for which he was not qualified , and to which he was not called by heaven's donation and due vocation from the church , without which , woful experience hath taught the chrian nations , that it is in vain by money , or for mony to make men ministers in the christian church . in this church was held the first and best of general councils , for setling the churches in peace , when troubles did arise among themselves , by means of false teachers , &c. and because the churches in all ages and nations , may have perpetual need of such helps , it shall not be amiss that we consider the quality and authority of such assemblies , lest otherwise we be abused by usurpation and tyranny : and first of the occasion of the calling this present assembly , acts . this assembly was called upon the greatest occasion that ever was , namely , the repealing , or rather shewing the repeal , of many divine ordinances , and freeing the christian church from their obligation ; because they were either fulfilled , or too burthensome for his church , as indeed st. peter avers , they were so heavie , that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear them ; and the endeavours of this council was successful to the removal of them , and the settlement of the churches in the faith ; and to the great encrease of their number , asts . from whence we may safely conclude , that if moses's ceremonies which were from heaven , were a hindrance to peace and growth in the christian church , much more must all ceremonies devised , and imposed by human force and power only , be an obstruction to it . let us therefore stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , and not be entangled in the yoak of bondage , whether of legal , or other devised ceremonies . as for the quality of the persons , of whom this assembly did consist , 't is plain they were messengers , elders and brethren , and these did all freely deliberate upon the matters in question , offering their reasons pro & contra ; and the dicision was made , not by the interposition of power apostolical , but by the clear evidence of truth and reason , to which they all agreed . the apostles acting here as grave fathers , giving free audience and faithful advice , to which when all agreed , the conclusion was made in all their names , as appears , acts . , . then pleased it the apostles and elders , with the whole church , to send chosen men of their own company to antioch , and wrote letters by them after this manner ; the apostles , elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the gentiles , &c. from the sweet concord here , we suppose all churches should do well to constitute their general consistories of such , seeing such helps she may have still , in things ordinary to each office , if she render not her self unworthy of them . now for the quality and authority of the decrees , made by this , or succeeding assemblies , the case is clear of it self ; these were such things as seemed good to the holy ghost , not that the holy ghost now revealed them , but brought to remembrance what the scriptures had said concerning them , and partly by what before that time had been shewed unto st. peter by a certain vision of god's accepting the gentiles , though not cleansed according to legal purification . and therefore till the holy ghost reverse those decrees , they are to oblige all churches to keep them inviolable . and in this point ( as indeed in all the rest ) the baptized churches in this age do stand a witness against the disorder and disobedience of most of the christian nations in the world ; who make no conscience of abstaining from blood , &c. though they know the true churches did religiously observe these decrees for several hundreds of years after . tertullian tells us , the custom of christians is to abstain from all blood , and things strangled , so that it is not lawful for them , when they feed at their tables to meddle with the blood of any beast . it is further safely concluded from hence , that all decrees of general councils are so far obliging only , as the things decreed are proved to be true , and not because they are decreed in council only ; for here st. peter proves , that churches are free from the obligation of legal ceremonies , because they wear a burthen too heavy to be born . . because god had accepted them already without them . and james [ the angel of this church ] proves or confirms the same by the scriptures , and these arguments , and probations , satisfied the assembly . and it 's certain , the things prohibited by these decrees , were always forbidden , even to noah and his perpetual generations , gen. . , &c. nor does this assembly excommunicate or anathematize all that shall doubt of the necessity of their determination , but very sweetly tells the brethren they shall do well to comply with their advice ; for they knew that every church had power to punish offenders , and to them they seem to leave that care , and not to take the power of any church out of their hands , as the manner of some is . of the case of infants , or whether they were admitted to baptism in the mother-church ? in all that is said of the plantation and growth of this famous church , or in that excellent epistle , which was a long time after written to them , there is not one word to be found of any one infant being brought to baptism ; and therefore we hold to the negative of this question ; and it is observable , that though here infant-circumcision was absolutely excluded , yet is there no argument urged for it from their baptism , which had been very considerable , had there been any such usage in this , or the gentile churches . and because it is granted now by many , and these the most learned too , ( among whom the papists ) that there is no scripture for infant-baptism , &c. but that it stands upon the authority of ecclesiastical tradition ; all that we shall say to that plea in this place is , to desire any man to shew who delivered this thing to the churches , and by what authority , whether divine or human ? for seeing tradition signifies a thing delivered , it is fit the person or persons delivering such a thing , should be known to be persons lawfully impowered to deliver such a tradition , before we can with safety receive it . * but how then shall infants be saved if baptism belong not to them ? i answer , out of the mouth of st. peter , verse . by the grace of our lord jesus christ they shall be saved . and sure a man might as well ask how can infants be saved without faith and repentance , seeing it is said , he that believeth not , shall be damned : and except ye repent , ye shall all perish , &c. and what answer could any wise man make , save this ? the grace of god sufficeth them , having christ's express word for it , that to them belongs the kingdom of heaven ; and this he spake to unbaptized infants too , which is therefore so satisfactory that we need no other evidence . if any man say the words which st. peter spake in council , acts . . are not meant of infants , and therefore not pertinent to my purpose . i shall only desire him to consider , that those words were spoken in opposition to this position , that without circumcision , after the manner of moses , the gentiles could not be saved : now we know , it was after the manner of moses to circumcise infants , and therefore doubtless these false teachers did question the salvation of infants dying without circumcision . therefore these words of st. peter , which teaches that by the grace of our lord jesus christ both jew and gentile shall be saved , have their clear extent to infants as well as to any other persons whatsoever : i shall here only refer the reader to what we have farther written , in a treatise upon this subject , entituled , the controversie about infant-church-member-ship and baptism epitomized . of the reverence due to saints , angels , and to the blessed virgin in particular , according to the usage of this mother-church . it was in this church where the holy virgin , mother of our lord , had her conversation and society , being with that select company , consisting of an hundred and twenty names , acts . . among whom this most blessed woman is expresly named , and by whose presence this mother-church was honoured above all others . and here is the last mention that is made of her in the holy scriptures . and this honourable mention of her by name , and as the mother of our lord , ( which doubtless calls for great reverence in the hearts of all god's people ) is all the honour that the word of god does here confer upon her . this church makes no prayers to her , nor to christ in her name , nor taught the succeeding churches to do so ; yet surely she was the greatest saint that ever was ; and if we have no ground from any direction , nor president in the scripture to perform such devotion to her , we cannot with any shew of reason , or pretence of truth , do it to any other creatrue , saint or angel , whatsoever . and it is remarkable , that though this church had occasion to make express mention of david in their prayers , acts . . yet do they not use his intercession at all : but this honour they give to jesus christ , that through his name such things might be done , as might confirm the truth against all opposers . nor does the holy ghost give any notice of the worshipping of angels , saints , nor the holy virgin in particular , in that sacred epistle , which was sent to this church after the death of blessed mary , the mother of jesus ; so that this mother-church ▪ seems altogether unacquainted with such devotions : and much more may we assure our selves , they paid no such devotion to the images of these , or of any of them . if any affirm the contrary , we answer them in the words of jerom , non credimus quia non legimus . and with apollinarius , we dare add nothing to the perfect words of the new testament , whereto nothing may be added ; and wherefrom nothing may be taken away , by him that will lead a life agreeable to the gospel . euseb . hist . l. . c. . thus brethren i have for your sakes ( as well as others ) taken a fresh view of the state of this most primitive church , to whose holy pattern , through the grace of god , you have diligently laboured to conform your souls , her principles are yours , her government in good measure is yours , if in any thing any of them be otherwise minded , my hearts desire is , that god would speedily reveal even the same unto you , and then it is to be hoped that all well disposed , will in time see themselves concerned to adhere to the truth of your principles , in the very order wherein you maintain them . hear the church : or an epistle to all the baptized christians in england ; exciting them to stedfastness in their holy profession , under their various tryals , and great afflictions . the second part . brethren , as it hath pleased god to exercise you many years with various tryals and afflictions , for your faithfulness to the christian religion ( in respect of the restoration of it to its ancient purity ) both in the form and power of it , wherein you have laboured hitherto , and have not fainted , but , by the grace of god , have attained to some degree in that behalf , above what hath , as yet , been attained by the generality of your country-men , for which you owe the greatest thankfulness to almighty god. and having ( as i verily believe ) laid a right foundation for a true church-state , you are indispensibly obliged to go on unto perfection , as the first churches , which were built upon the same foundation , were expresly required and exhorted , heb. . , , . in which holy profession , being by the grace of god , one with you , and also called to the ministry and office of a messenger of your churches [ which i mention , because it is the most despised office amongst all christians , as it seems to have been in the apostles days . . cor. . . ] do hold it my duty , at this time , to endeavour to strengthen you ( in what i may ) in your holy profession ; as also to call upon such as have been shaken in mind by the violence of those temptations which have befallen them in common with their brethren . for as it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god , ( as those undoubtedly shall , who draw back from the truth they have once embraced unto perdition ) so i am very confident , that for any to fall from the truth , as it is professed by the baptized churches , is the most dangerous of all other , they being indeed the nearest to the truth , in the pristine order and simplicity of it , of all sorts of persons , who own the honorable appellation of christian . for , what sort of christians can with any confidence look upon , or bring themselves close to the rules of st. pauls catechism , * heb. . , . ( as the antients used to call it ) except the baptized churches ? to say nothing of others , can they of the present roman catholick-church , in any wise square themselves , or justifie their present church-state by the rule of those sacred principles , in the simplicity of them ? no , these principles of christ's doctrine , will in no wise be concordant with the catechism of the present roman church , seeing a doctor of their own hath told us , that if the scriptures must be our rule , &c. they must all cross the cudgels to the anabaptists ; which is a plain giving up the victory to the baptized churches , unless a better form of doctrine can be assigned than this is , which will never be . yea , so pressing is this place from the true institution of the antient christian religion , that the rhemists seem to be under no small difficulty how to express themselves about it : for thus they speak upon the text , heb. . , . we see hereby ( say they ) what the first grounds of christian institution , or catechism , were in the primitive church , and that there was ever a necessary instruction and belief of certain points , had by word of mouth and tradition , before men came to the scriptures , which could not treat of things so particularly as was requisite for the teaching of all necessary grounds . among these points were the twelve articles contained in the apostles creed ; the doctrine of penance before baptism ; the manner and necessity of baptism ; the sacrament of imposition of hands after baptism , called confirmation ; the articles of the resurrection , judgment , and such like : without which things first laid , if one should be sent to pick his faith out of the scriptures , there would be mad rule quickly . . it 's highly observable from hence , that the first grounds and principles of our churches ( which indeed are no other than what men read , heb. . , . ) are openly acknowledged , by our most potent opposites , to be the same which were in the primitive church , received for the first grounds and institutions of christianity , or christian institution and catechism . that in the primitime church , these grounds were held in the very order now observed by the baptized churches ; particularly , repentance before baptism , and imposition of hands after baptism . sure this is a full testimony , that the institution of the baptized churches ( now wrongfully called anabaptists ) and theirs only , is truly apostolical . whilst all the paedobaptists in the world ( among whom , the papists ) have quite subverted this order , giving their supposed baptism before repentance , and that unto persons that are not capable of repentance . . they tell us there was a necessary instruction and belief of certain points had by word of mouth and tradition , before men came to the scripture ▪ admit this to be so , in respect of such parts of the holy scriptures as were then unwritten , when the apostles first preached the gospel ; yet it is certainly false , in respect of such books of scripture as were then in being ; for it 's evident that our blessed saviour propounded the text of scripture , luke . , , . and thence preached to the people , and commanded his hearers to search the scriptures , john . . he did not send his hearers to tradition , as the papists do . the great apostle of the jews , st. peter , even then when he was filled with the holy ghost , acts . . preached from , and notably confirms his doctrine by the scriptures , act. . not by tradition . and philip , acts . . began at the same scripture which the eunuch read , and preached to him jesus , without making any use of tradition . apollo being mighty in the scripture ( not in tradition ) convinced the jews , shewing ( not by tradition ) but by the scriptures , that jesus is the christ . so did the great apostle of the gentiles , st. paul , acts . ● . perswading men concerning jesus , out of the law and the prophets ( not out of tradition ) from morning to evening ; and the best sort of st. paul's hearers , searched the scriptures daily , ( not tradition ) to see whether the things spoken by him were so . . nor can the papists tell us what one point of necessary instruction or belief was delivered by word of mouth , which is not now contained in the holy scripture ; if otherwise , let them assign some necessary point of faith or instruction , such , as without which , we cannot know and serve god truly and fully , and be saved eternally , which is not contained in the holy scriptures . but as this will hardly be attempted ; so let me exhort you , brethren , to beware of all manner of principles and doctrins , which have any tendency to weaken or invalidate the authority and sufficiency of the scriptures , which the apostle avers to be of that sufficiency ( even before all the books of sacred scriptures were extant ) as to furnish the man of god throughly to every good work. and then certainly , he who is in all points of faith and instruction , a good christian , according to the doctrine contained in the holy scriptures , will be out of the reach of any just reprehension , though he know nothing of the unwritten tradition , so much pretended and admired by the papists , or others . being thus secured in your principles , from the very concession of your enemies , and by the authority of the best and most sacred antiquity , even the holy scriptures , you have no cause to fear the most important difficulties , wherewith possibly we may be tried in these days . and that we may the better see how the case stands between the baptists and the papists , with respect to the two great ordinances of christ , to wit , holy baptism , and the holy table of our lord jesus christ ; we will here take a view of the one , and of the other , in a distinct column by it self , the better to discern their disparity . the manner of baptism among the baptized believers , commonly called anabaptists . baptist . the manner of baptism among the papists , commonly called roman catholicks ; taken out of the roman ritual , by a learned hand translated into english . papist . the messenger or elder being attired in comely raiment , not much different from the rest of his brethren , first , preaches the gospel to every creature that is capable and willing to hear , and when by hearing they have received faith , the minister explains the doctrine of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god , for the further illumination of the disciples understanding , in the knowledge of the only true god , and our lord jesus christ , that they may obtain eternal life . the minister does oopen the doctrine of repentance in three parts especially , i. e. as it consists in a due sense or knowledge of the sinfulness of sin : in true sorrow for sin committed , especially against almighty god. the necessity of forsaking the conversation of sin , and to walk righteously , soberly , and godly in this present life . the doctrine of faith is explained concerning the object , in respect of the god-head , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , into whose name the party is to be baptized , and especially concerning christ crucified , buried , and risen a-again ; and therewith is shewed , that in baptism we are to die unto sin , to be buried with him in baptism , to rise to a holy life , and so to put on the lord jesus christ in baptism , as to be born of water and of the spirit through the word . the minister does open to the party to be baptized , the whole doctrine of baptisms ; first , that of water , which is the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins , in respect of the power by which it is commanded , the extent of it , to every repenting sinner ; the end of it to be a pledge of the washing away of sin , and to give us admission into the church of christ , to draw near to god in prayer , with full assurance , having the heart sprinkled from an evil conscience , by faith in the blood of christ , and our bodies washed with pure water , even the water of the baptismal covenant , called the washing of regeneration . . that of the holy spirit , the promise of the spirit being made to all that our lord doth call , and therewith doth explain the fourth principle of christ's doctrine , laying on of hands , with prayers , as the means appointed of god to obtain that blessing , even the promise of the spirit through faith in the word of promise . . the baptism of affliction is also opened , that the sufferings of christ ( called by himself a baptism ) may not be feared , but patiently endured , according to the will of god. this is the sum of the doctrine of baptism , taught by the baptized churches . the th and th principles of christ's doctrine , are likewise particularly opened , concerning the resurrection of the dead , and chiefly of christ's being raised bodily from the dead , as the most sure pledge that the dead shall be raised bodily : and the eternal judgment , in which every man shall receive according to the deeds done in the body , whether good , or bad . to all which the party to be baptized , declares his assent , in the best man●er he can ; shewing also his sense of sin , and sorrow for it , his purpose to live holily ; his faith in christ his saviour the only son of god , and that it is his desire to be baptized according to the will of god. and then the minister , with the congregation , or persons present , do make prayer and supplication to almighty god , to receive the returning sinner , and to bless and sanctifie his own ordinance to him . and then the party to be baptized , being cloathed with convenient garments for decency , he is had to the water , where , calling upon the name of the lord , he is dipped into the river , or water , by the minister , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . and as in every thing christians are to give thanks , so this whole service is concluded with farther prayer , and thanksgiving to this effect , that as it has pleased god to call his servant , or servants out of their sinful state , and to bring them into the way of truth , so it would please him to enable them to persevere to the end , to his glory and their own eternal comfort . nor do we put any vow , covenant or promise upon any person , save only what the very nature of the baptismal covenant it self does in its own evidence carry along with it , it being our greatest care , neither to add to , nor to diminish ought from the holy ordinances of christ , but to keep them as they were delivered at first to the church of god ▪ cor. . . after many preparatory prescriptions , the priest being dressed in a purple robe , calls the infant to be baptized by his name , and saith , what askest thou of the church of god ? the god-fathers answer , faith. the priest saith again , what shalt thou get by faith ? the god-father replies , eternal life . then adds the priest , if therefore thou wilt enter into life , keep the commandments : thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart , and thy neighbour as thy self . next , the priest blows three gentle puffs upon the infants face , and saith , go out of him thou unclean spirit , and give place to the holy ghost , the comforter . then with his thumb he makes the sign of the cross on the infants forehead and breast , saying , receive the sign of the cross , both in thy forehead and in thy heart . take the faith of the heavenly precept , and be thy manners such as thou mayst now become the temple of god. then follows a prayer , that god would always protect this his elect one ( calling him by his name ) that is signed with the sign of the cross . then laying his hand upon the child's head , he comes to the benediction of salt , of which this is the form. i exorcise or conjure thee , o thou creature of salt , in the name of god the father almighty ✚ , in the name of our lord jesus christ ✚ , and in the power of the holy ghost ✚ , i conjure thee by the living god ✚ , by the true god ✚ , by the holy god ✚ , by the god ✚ , which created thee for the safeguard of mankind , and hath ordained that thou shouldst be consecrated by his servants to the people , entering into the faith , that in the name of the holy trinity , thou shouldst be made a wholesome sacrament for the driving away the enemy . moreover , we pray thee , o lord our god , that in sanctifying , thou wouldst sanctifie ✚ , this creature of salt , and in blessing , thou wouldst bless it ✚ , that it may be to all that receive it , a perfect medicine , remaining in their bowels , in the name of the same jesus christ our lord , who is about to come to judge the quick and the dead , and the world by fire . amen . then the priest putting a little of the holy salt into the child's mouth , saith , take thou the salt of wisdom , be it thy propitiation unto eternal life . amen . now follows another exorcising of the devil , wherein he is conjured as before , then the priest signs the infant again with his thumb on the forehead , saying , and this sign of the holy ✚ which we give to his forehead , thou cursed devil , never dare thou to violate , by the same jesus christ our lord. amen . then the priest puts his hand on the infants head , and makes a prayer in order to his baptism , then puts part of his robe upon the child , and brings him within the church , saying , enter thou into the temple of god , that thou maist partake with christ in eternal life . amen . then follows the apostles creed , and the pater-noster , &c. then follows another exorcising or conjuration of the devil . then the priest takes spittle out of his mouth , and touches therewith the ears and nostrils of the infant ; when he toucheth his ears , he saith , epthapha , be opened ; and touching his nostrils , he saith , for a sweet smelling savour . another conjuration follows in these words ; be packing , o devil , for the judgment of god is at hand . then the priest asks the infant , whether he renounces the devil and all his works , and all his pomps ? in three questions , and the god-fathers answer distinctly to them . then the priest dips his thumb in holy oyl , and anoynting the infant with it on his breast and betwixt his shoulders in the figure of a ✚ , saying , i anoynt thee with the oyl of salvation in christ jesus our lord , that thou mayst obtain eternal life . amen . then the priest puts off his purple robe , and puts on another of white , and asks three questions out of the creed ; and receives the god-fathers answers , then asks this question , whether the infant will be baptized ? and receiving the god-fathers answers to that , he pours water thrice upon the child's head , and reciteth over it our saviour's form of baptism , doing it each time at the naming of the three persons . and now comes the chrysm or holy oyntment , in which dipping his thumb and anointing the infant on the crown of the head , in the figure of a ✚ , he thus prayeth ; o god omnipotent , the father of our lord jesus christ , who hath regenerated thee of water and the holy ghost , and who hath given ▪ thee pardon of all thy sins , i anoint thee with the chrysm of salvation , in the name of christ jesus our lord , to eternal life . amen . and next after follows the pax tibi , and wiping of his thumb and the anointed head , he takes a white linen cloath , and putting it on the child's head useth this form , take the white garment , which thou mayst carry unspotted before the tribunal of our lord jesus christ , that thou mayst have eternal life . amen . and lastly , he puts a lighted candle into the child's , or godfathers hand , and saith , receive the burning lamp , and keep thy baptism blameless ; keep god's commandments , that when the lord shall come to the wedding , thou may'st meet him , &c. concluding all with , go in peace , and the lord be with thee . there are more conjurations and ceremonies added , &c. but let these suffice at present . now brethren , as it is an observation , that white being compared with black doth seem more white ; so the true baptism according to the scripture ( and graciously restored in the practick part among you ) being thus compared with the supposed baptism of the present roman church , must needs seem more lovely , and the wretchedness of their devised fables become more manifest to all men . let us now see whether they have been more happy in the other great ordinance , the holy table of the lord. baptist . the manner of the baptized churches in celebrating the holy table of the lord. papist . the manner of the celebration of the bread and cup in the mass , taken from dr. willit in his synopsis papismi . the congregation being met together , and having spent part of the day in preaching , and prayer , commonly towards the evening , and ordinarily upon the lords day , the table is decently prepared , and the bread and wine set upon it also in decent manner . the messenger or elder does excite the people to due humility , and reverence in their approaching to the holy table of the lord , shewing the occasion and authority by , and upon which it was instituted for a perpetual ministry in the church of god. the great use and mystical signification of it , as christ is evidently set forth in his crucifixion , or bitter death upon the cross , as the alone sacrifice , once offered for the sins of men , and that there is no more offering for sin , but the offering up of christ once for all . then he putteth them in mind of the qualifications , necessary on their part to the due reception of that divine ordinance , without which they will come together for the worse , and not for the better . then taking the bread into his hands , he calleth upon god in the mediation of jesus christ , for a blessing upon the bread , that it may be sanctified for that holy use for which it was ordained by christ , and that by faith , all that are to partake of that bread , thereby may feed upon the body of christ , which is the true bread , and by him live for ever . then he breaketh the bread , pronouncing the words of christ , this is my body , &c. willeth the people to receive it in remembrance of christ , and as shewing forth the death of christ till he come the second time without sin to salvation . in like manner he taketh the cup , after the people have received the bread , and with prayer suitable to that great mystery , it being sanctified , he poureth out of the wine , remembring the words of christ , this cup is the new testament in my blood , &c. partakes of it himself ( as he did also of the bread ) and gives it to the deacons to communicate to all the congregation , and they all drink of it . then some word of exhortation is given to the people under the consideration of the unspeakable mercy of god in the gift of his son to dye for us , that we might live eternally with him : all is concluded with prayers to the lord for all his blessings , in the most joyful manner that the minister is able to express them , and then usually something is given to the poor , as every mans heart maketh him willing , being not constrained thereunto , but as the love of christ constraineth him . to say nothing here of the roman church , denying to give the cup to the people , the priests only drinking of it ; nor of the priest only partaking of the bread and cup in divers of their masses , the people only looking on : neither of their adoration of the elements of bread and wine in these words , i worship thee , i glorifie thee , i praise thee . nor yet of that passage in the communion of the mass , let us worship the sign of the cross , which are things too large to be discoursed in a letter ; it shall suffice to set down the manner of their celebration . . all is done in an unknown tongue , which the people understand not . . the benedicamus domino , is sung ten times together , and ite missa est is sung thirteen times , with long and tedious notes . . the priest is to say divers prayers privately to himself . . he is taught by the rubrick to make thirty several crosses upon the bread , the cup , the altar , and his forehead . . their gestures are as followeth . the priest boweth his body , and lifting up himself , kisseth the altar on the right side ; then he boweth again , and looketh toward the host [ that is the bread ] he joyneth his hands , wipeth his fingers , lifteth up the host , then he lifteth up his eyes , and boweth himself , and lifteth up his eyes again , he boweth again , and lifteth up the host above his forehead ; then he uncovereth the cup , and holdeth it between his hands , keeping his thumb and his finger together . then he boweth and lifteth up the cup a little , then to his breast , or above his head. he setteth it down again and wipeth his fingers ; then he spreadeth his arms a-cross . he boweth his body , rising up , he kisseth the altar on the right side . he smiteth his breast ; uncovering the cup , he makes five crosses with the host beyond the cup , twice , on each side under the cup and before it . then he layeth his hands upon the altar , the deacon reaching him the paten , he putteth it to his right eye , then to his left , he maketh a cross beyond his head with it , he kisseth it and layeth it down . then he breaketh the host in three , holding two pieces in his left hand and one in his right over the cup , which with a cross he letteth fall into it . then he kisseth the corporas : the deacon taketh the pax from the priest , giveth it to the sub-deacon and he to the quire. then humbling himself , he first taketh the body , and then the blood , so he goeth to the right horn of the altar , the sub-deacon poureth in wine , and the priest rinseth the cup , and washeth his hands turning himself to the people . cometh again to the altar , and turneth to the people the second time . then bowing his body , and closing his hands , he prayeth to himself : he riseth again , making the sign of the cross , and bowing again , goeth from the altar . thus , brethren , i have given you a brief account of the ceremonious observations of those who would be thought the truest church on earth , though they have assuredly changed the ordinances of our lord more than any sort of christians ; i have also set before you the purity and simplicity ( and yet the great utility ) of these two great ordinances , that you may be more inwardly affected with them , but especially with him whom they so excellently represent , for to this end are they ordained to set forth christ and him crucified . of all the difficulties with which you are likely to be tried in respect of your religious profession , that question which concerns the judge of these and other controversies in religion , is like to be the most dangerous , because you have been little exercised in it ; as also because many persons of great eminency and authority are deeply radicated and very expert in an opinion diametrically opposite to yours , for they say , that the living voice of the church , assembled in a general council of her bishops and doctors , is the only infallible judge to determine all controversies in matters of faith and religion . on the other side , we have been taught , and have constantly believed that it is all christians duty to rely chiefly , and before all things , upon the authority and sufficiency of the voice of god himself , as he speaks in the holy scriptures , as the best , and only infallible decider of all questions that shall arise , ( especially in the christian church , and since the holy scriptures were written and received ) about matters of faith and religion . and indeed it seems very strange that any man should think there is a better judge than god himself , of what is true , and what is otherwise , in matters of religion ; and to be sure he speaks to us with the greatest certainty , and authority , by the holy pen-men of the scriptures . and it is as strange that the church , who must derive all her light and authority from god and his word , should appeal men to her self rather than to him : methinks they should say to us ( as caesar's substitute said to st. paul ) hast thou appealed to god , as he speaks in his scriptures ? to god and his scriptures shalt thou go . and especially when this is the question , what sort of christians are the true church of christ ? for it seems then the most unreasonable thing in the world , that any party contending for this title [ the church ] should be her own judge ; and seeing the church cannot by meerly avouching ( upon her own testimony only ) that she is the church , make any proof or demonstration that she is so , it remains then , that we must have some infallible rule by which to find the church . and now if god himself does not reveal to us who is his church , we shall never find her ; nor does he reveal this , but by the testimonies of the scripture , there must we find the church of god , or no where . for none but enthusiasts pretend to any other revelation in this case ; and to speak feeely , i doubt the papists are more then a little enthusiastical ; for rather than let god's word decide this question about the church , they will flye to miracles , as if a false prophet may not shew a sign , or a wonder , yea , and that sign and wonder come to pass too , and yet the thing he brings it to prove , be nothing but a lye : see deut. . surely he that shall pretend to work a miracle or wonder in these days , to prove such , or such a people to be the church , i should the more suspect both him and his church ; because we have a sure word of prophecy confirmed by miracles already , which word , doth as fully set forth the church , as it sets forth any thing ; insomuch as men may as well call for miracles to prove there is a god , and that this god is true , as to call for miracles to prove the true church . indeed the church of christ being once found , then all wise and modest men will readily lend an ear to her in all things , and especially when she undertakes to expound the dark or mysterious points of our religion , or offers her judgment in things doubtful , [ for as for the common point of the christian faith , he that is a wise and good man , and no ways byassed by interest , may perhaps know these things , as well as the church , or at least , such as call themselves church-men . ] but to be bound to adhere to any church in these days , as to a people which cannot possibly be mistaken in any matters of faith , or religion , seems to be an atribute too high for any society of sinful men , [ and there is none that liveth and sinneth not . ] for seeing god hath not told us any such thing , that the church cannot err or be mistaken , it ought not to be spoken : and if it be only proper to the almighty to say he cannot lye ; it must not be said of the church , that she cannot lye , lest he reprove us , and we be found lyars . rom. . . let god be true , and every man a lyar , for thus it is written ; and again , hos . . . ephraim compasseth me about with lyes , and the house of israel with deceit . this was the case of the ten tribes : and though judah be justified as to these impieties , yet chap. . . god tells them he had a controversie with them also . certain it is that famous churches have erred in matters of faith , and others were as liable to err as they , no church being herein priviledged above another , for any thing that god has said in his word , but he every where exhorts his people to beware of sin , error , and apostacy , and commands every one that hath ears , to hear what the spirit saith to the churches : but he does not say to any of them that they cannot err , therefore we are not to hear such a story of any church . mat. . . is a gracious promise indeed , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of christ , as founded upon himself , in the true faith of st. peter . but this promise belongs to all true churches equally , yet no man ever durst affirm from hence , that no true church can possibly err . and st. peter , who understood this promise , never told any church of his planting , that they could not err ; but rather tells them they may err , so as to fall from their stedfastness , and be led away with the error of the wicked . indeed if any church could be assigned here on earth that cannot err , or be deceived in matters of faith , it were the easiest thing in the world to find the truth , having once found the church ; for we should have no need to know any thing but what that church speaks , and to receive her determinations as god's oracles : but then i consider again that we should perhaps have great inconvenience also . for , if all the decrees made by general councils be obliging to us , and were bound up together , we should never be able to read them , nor i doubt , to understand them ; it will then be our best , at the long-run , to take sanctuary at the word of god , as our guide , and superiour to the church . but i consider farther , that no man makes any particular church this guide , but does refer us to the universal church , as assembled in a general council . surely either this is to make as many universal churches at least as there has been ages since christ was upon the earth ; or if all make but one universal church , the direction given to follow her sentence , is scarce practicable ; for how long will it be before a man can be assured , what was held , and what was rejected by the church in all ages ? indeed there are men born of great confidence , who will tell us that the catholick , or universal church hath always held such doctrines , and such traditiors as are unwritten , &c. now it highly concerns all christians , as much as in them lieth , to make sure work with such bold talkers , about the truth of the things which they affirm , especially about the truth of the antiquity of these things , that is , that they appear by some divine record to have been delivered to the first churches , by men approved of god , to be the deliverers of divine institutes ; and if they fail here , it will be ill venturing to follow them in their after-enquiries . and there is the highest reason in the world to stand as strongly as possible for the first age ; for such pure and undoubted antiquity is necessary in our case , from the tenour of our blessed saviour's argumentation against the jews , in opposition to a tradition , or mosaical precept in the case of divorce , mat. . . from the beginning it was not so . for seeing the apostles did faithfully deliver the whole counsel of god to the first churches , condemning all that shall teach otherwise than they had taught the the doctrine of godliness ; or that should not consent to wholesome words , even the words of our lord jesus christ , it is therefore necessary to bring all doctrine ▪ and practices in the christian church to the test of the most pure and primitive antiquity ; for that church which hath that argument fairly on her side , cannot fail of all other arguments , which can be any way necessary for her justification ; for indeed this first argument does infer all the rest , and they that have not this , have none of the other ; which thing being well considered , look back upon your principles ( o ye baptized christians ) and upon what hath been said for them , even by your adversaries , and take comfort ; for whoever boasts of the best antiquity , it is certain that you only have it . for what is the most ancient record ? doubtless the holy scripture ; and if so , let the question be about christ and his church , there must we find them both , or no where . if any man like not this doctrine ; let him shew me , if he can , these lovely objects without being beholden to the scripture . some i have known to attempt this , but with lamentable success , being soon driven to a shameful silence ; and indeed the whole world must depart into utter silence as touching this great mystery , christ and his church , unless the word of god , ( as it is delivered in the holy scriptures ) through faith , makes us wise in these great concernments of salvation , tim. . . let men alledge all the authors in the world , and all the tradition that ever was , if the holy scriptures must not be their own evidence , and so capable to command our belief of them ; then for the same , or rather more forcible reasons , then any man can bring against the scriptures , all authors and all traditions shall be dumb and useless as to the production of the least iota of divine faith ; so that the papists at the long-run ( must if they know how ) shew us their church without scripture , or any author , and without tradition also , as i have formerly written unto you , being provoked thereunto by seven queries sent by a learned papist , who in his last to me , does undertake to deliver himself from this difficulty after this manner ; we may ( saith he ) prove the church by the holy scripture , and the scripture by the church , and this by a regressus demonstrativus , without a vicious circle , because we suppose them both sufficiently proved , and prudently accepted for such , by all the motives of credibility , as miracles , holiness , &c. by which christ proved himself and his new gospel . but as for the sense of the scripture , i have more than sufficiently demonstrated , that the scripture it self cannot bear witness for it , but that this must be had from a living judge , viz. the church , the infallible interpreter of gods word . to this i answer briefly : that is a vicious circle , out of which no man can lawfully deliver himself , but must run in a round without end ; and truly such is this circular argumentation of my adversary , he will prove his church by the scripture . . he will prove the scripture to be true by his church , and he will prove his church true by the scripture , before the scripture be proved true ; and he will prove the scripture to be true , after it hath proved his church true . this meander is no way to be avoided that i can see , but by suffering either the scripture , or the church to be its own evidence , for his demonstrative regress makes his case worse ; for by it , they be both sufficiently proved , before either of them be proved , and both prudently accepted , before either of them be accepted ; and which is most strange of all the rest , these things are all done before the scripture hath any sense known ; for of this he is the most of all confident , that the sense of the scripture must be had from a living judge , viz. the church , the infallible interpreter of god's word . so that this is the conclusion of the whole matter : the scripture without sense must prove the roman church , and the roman church must then give the sense of that scripture , which had no sense before , when it proved her to be the church ; here is indeed a regressus , but no such thing as a demonstrativus . methinks wise men should consider that the holy scripture is its own interpreter in a great , if not the greatest part of it , the new testament being the best interpreter of the old testament , and of it self also in many places : for example ; it tells us in one place , that the heavens must receive christ from the time of his ascension , till the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the lord. act. . . and hence we hold , that no christian must say that the real body of of christ , which ascended to heaven , is upon the earth , till he shall be sent the second time , [ for god shall send jesus , saith st. peter ] because the scripture tells us in another place , that if jesus were on earth , he should not be a priest , heb. . . it is therefore as plain as plain can be , that the papists make void the priesthood of christ , and contradict st. peter himself , when they tell the world that the real body of christ which ascended into heaven , is now really , carnally , corporally present upon the earth , that is , upon their altars , and in the hands and mouths of their priests and people , as often as they celebrate mass , and consequently he is so far from being received into heaven till the time of his second coming , that he is , according to their own opinion , received bodily upon earth ten thousand times , and in ten thousand places , to his being once received bodily into heaven . sure their opinion is directly against the scripture , as sure as their transubstantiation is directly against the best sense , and the best reason , with which almighty god hath endowed the best of men , as has been clearly evidenced by many learned discourses ; among which , i would commend to your perusal , one lately published , under the title of a discourse against transubstantiation : printed this year , and sold by mr. aylmer at the three pigeons against the royal exchange , price six pence . my learned adversary , and indeed the papists generally , do urge us vehemently after this manner , admitting that the church is to follow the rule of god's revealed word in all her definitions ; yet they hold it extreamly irrational , that all that can read it , should be his own interpreter of it , for so , say they , he will be his own judge . and as in a nation where no judge of the law is appointed , there can be no justice , but every man will be his own judge ; so likewise , unless there be a supream judge in matters of faith , to wit , the church , from whom no appeal may be allowed , there can be no end of controversies , &c. this objection is considerable : to which i say , . what my adversary means by god's revealed word , i do not very well understand , but i doubt he extends that term farther than the holy scripture , else i am sure enough , the church of rome has no revealed word of god to follow in very many of her observations : but to let this pass at present , i answer to the objection thus ; . it seems to be built upon many dangerous suppositions , such as these , that we ought to rest upon the sentence of a priest ( for we must hear the church out of his mouth ) for the state of our soul , as on the sentence of a judge in a civil court for a matter of debt , &c. and that we are no more bound to search the scriptures for eternal life , than to search the statute-book for our temporal life [ nay , here i do them no wrong , for they will permit us to read the statute-book , but they forbid us to read the holy scripture . ] it supposes the priest cannot deceive us ; when the prophet tells us , that though the priests lips should preserve knowledge , and that we should seek the law at his mouth , yet they had caused many to stumble at the law , because they had been partial in the law , mat. . . it supposes , whoever falls under the sentence of the priest , is as surely damned , as he is cast or hanged , that falls under the sentence of a judge in law. [ which may be false , for the priests did joyntly sentence our blessed saviour , saying , we have a law , and by our law he ought to die . it 's true , whatsoever the church doth bind on earth , is bound in heaven ; but then nothing is bound on earth , unless she judge righteously ; for it is written , that the curse causeless shall not come , prov. . . and seeing she may be deceived , ( at least by false witnesses ) she may condemn the innocent , though she had no mind to do so , which shews she is not infallible , whatever men talk to the contrary . ] i do not like this opinion , therefore because it leaves not liberty for those whom the church condemns , to appeal so much as to almighty god , who knows the hearts of all men , whilst the church knows them not . but i answer to the objection , by saying , . there is a judgment authoritative ; this indeed must be referr'd to the church , and no wise man ever thought otherwise , and the members of the church must be content to abide the sentence of the church , though they be innocent , till god clears their innocency ; but all this while we suppose the church we speak of , to be a true church , and that she judges according to evidence ; and yet because she knows not all secrets , nor all things contained in the scriptures , we also suppose she may possibly mistake , though never so honest . but , . there is a judgment of knowledge or discretion , by which men receive the truth of the gospel , as understanding , and so believing it to be so ; and by the same judgment he refuses what is false , as understanding it to be so ; and till his understanding be well informed , or rationally satisfied by convincing evidence , he cannot , if he have the understanding and spirit of a man , do either the one or the other . and hence it is , that salvation , ( and consequently the means to obtain it ) are offered to men in the manner of choice , josh . . . chuse then this day whom you will serve . heb. . . moses chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of god , than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season . and forasmuch as all men are not called at the same moment , but some receive the truth in their youth , others in their middle age , some not till old age ; all the liberty which we contend for , is , that men may have the free use of the means ▪ by which they may know the truth , and be allowed to understand it before they be admitted to sacred things , that they may not only be able to give a reason of the hope that is in them , but also be able to do ( as they are also exhorted ) prove every man his own work , that he may have rejoycing in himself alone , and not in another , gal. . , . thus much in answer to this objection . there is no man living that would more gladly ( than my self ) give to the church of god , all that honour and obedience which god hath allowed her ; but to say , she cannot err , is to make her more like god than she is . i think all that can be safely affirmed , is , that she shall not sail so , as utterly to cease from being , but that god will have a church in the world , to be his witness to the end of the world , though the apostacy be never so great , or seemingly universal . and as it pleased god to foreshew the great apostacies , which should be found among the christian nations : so he was graciously pleased to intermix some words of comfort , that when it should so fall out , that the spouse of christ should be like the dove in the secret places of the stairs ; cant. . . or thrust into prisons , and out of sight , which might cause the faithful even to think there was no church remaining ( like that of the prophet , who desired rather to die than to live , because he thought the faithful had utterly failed , and himself left alone ) i say , that then they should remember that the gates of hell should not prevail against the church , and therefore god hath always had a church , however she might be obscured . finally , brethren , my hearts desire and prayer to god for you , is , that you may be of one mind and judgment in all the will of god , and especially in these sacred principles before mentioned , and in the constitution of your ministry , in respect of the threefold order of ministers , under which the first churches were undoubtedly governed , viz. messengers , elders , and deacons . and i do the rather advise to this , because some have been pleased to publish in print , that there are only two offices remaining in the church of christ , viz. elders and deacons ; this presbyterian principle , will , i fear , undo such as receive it . they boldly tell us , that the office of timothy and titus was temporary , as if they had none to succeed them . what i have formerly written in the defence of the first of these offices , is extant among you , and as yet unanswered , and to that i refer you . our divisions have been , and will be , if continued , very prejudicial to the truth it self ; and our adversaries know how to make use of them against us , and our holy profession , though they cannot be ignorant of the great divisions which were in the churches in the apostles days , nor should they be ignorant of their own ; and to the end they may see they are no more happy in that matter than their neighbours , let them consider what bernard hath written of them , as he is quoted by the learned , in cant. serm. . his words are to this effect . from whom shall the church hide her self ? all are friends , and all are enemies ; all are kinsfolks , and all are adversaries ; all are houshold servants , and there is none at peace ; all are neighbours , and all seek but their own profit . they are ministers of christ , and serve anti-christ ; they do walk in the honour of the goodness of the lord , unto whom they do no honour . thereby cometh that beauty of the harlot , which thou seest daily in their apparel , as the players of comedies . as in the apparel of a king , thereby thou seest the gold in the bridles , saddles and spurs . thereby are the tables beautified with meats and vessels : thereby cometh drunkenness and gluttony : thereby proceedeth the harp and the viol : thereby are the presses running over , and the garners full , answering the one to the other : thereby are the boxes full of oyntment and sweet savour : thereby are the purses filled . therefore would they be , and are the princes of the churches . the provosts , deans , arch-deacons , bishops , arch-bishops , and these things come not lawfully , but because they walk in the business of darkness . behold now in peace my bitterness is most bitter , it hath been before bitter in the death of martyrs , afterwards more bitter in controversie with hereticks ; now it is most bitter in the manners of those of our own house . we can neither chase them away , they are so mighty , and multiplied without number ; the sores and plagues of the church are entred into the inward parts , and are incurable , and therefore is her bitterness most bitter . and in psal . . , . o lord jesus , thou hast multiplied the people , but not encreased their joy ; all the christians almost , do seek their own profit , they have removed the offices to shameful gain , and into works of darkness , and the health of souls is not searched for , but the pleasure of vices : therefore are they shorn : therefore do they frequent churches , and sing psalms . they contend most impudently daily by process , for bishopricks , arch-bishopricks , &c. there remaineth nothing , but that the man of sin , the son of perdition , be revealed . and on the conversion of st. paul. alas , o lord god , for these are the first which do persecute thee , whom we do see to love the highest places in thy church , and do hold the principality , and by power and strength have taken the arches of sion , and afterward freely have set all the city on fire . their conversation is miserable , the subversion of thy people is pitiful . and speaking to the pope , he saith , this mortal corruption hath not begun in thy days , but i pray god it may end in thy time . in the mean time thou art apparelled and decked up very gorgeously . if i durst speak , thy seat is rather a pack of devils then of sheep . did st. peter do so ? did st. paul mock after that sort ? behold the murmuring and complaint of all churches , they do cry out that they are cut in pieces , and dismembred . there are very few , or almost none , that do not fear the streak or wound . thus far bernard . let not then the papists contemn or despise us , because of some defects , in respect of unity , neither let us despise them , because of the discords which have been , or are among them . let us beware of the cause of those calamities , and strive only for the true form , and due power of godliness , then shall the spirit of hatred , which hath inserted it self amongst christians , be rooted out ; and then shall that great badge of christianity , unfeigned love , ( even the love of god , shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost ) possess the room of all our bitter contentions . that thus it may be , is the prayer of your loving brother , thomas grantham . written in the year . post-script . concerning the original manuscripts of the holy scriptures . brethren , because our learned adversaries are wont to amuse weak christians , by telling them they knew not the originals , &c. i thought fit to transcribe part of what i have formerly printed in answer to this specious objection ; in the introduction of my book of primitive christianity , how vain and pernicious this talk is about the original , will appear , when you consider , that no man living ever saw the very papers in which the prophets and apostles did write the first draughts of the holy scriptures , and therefore none have the originals , but only copies of scripture . and let not this offend any man : for , it seems to have been the best for all christians , that after many copies are taken and spread in many nations , these first draughts should not continue long ; for had any now but so much confidence , as to say they have these very first sheets of paper to show , how might they trouble the whole world with such a report ? and how might they abuse the world , and all the churches in the world at pleasure ? as by adding or taking away , and who should correct the original ? suppose the roman church had those manuscripts in their hands , what mists might they cast upon the nations , and who could come to the sight of them to discover any such abuse ? and the same may be said of any other potent party . but now the originals being no where to be found , but yet a multitude of copies extant , and the same translated by multitudes of men into several languages ; by this means all are forced to be more peaceable than perhaps they are willing to be , since they have only copies of the divine oracles , and others have copies as well as they , so that they can none of them pretend to have ever seen the original , and therefore can they less quarrel about their copies . thus hath god's wisdom disposed herein , better for his church than she could have thought or desired . and it is worth observation , that scarce any of the churches to whom st. paul wrote , had the original sent to them , ( except the galatians ) but had only certain copies written by divers hands . for instance , the epistle to the hebrews was written by timothy , as 't is said in the post-script . the epistle to the romans was written by tertius . four persons wrote the first epistle to the corinthians , post-script . two brethren wrote the second epistle , post-script . tichicus and onesimus wrote that to colossus . all these churches had only copies , and for ought appears , never saw the originals . and what if some of these copies did accidentally vary some word or tittle , are the sacred epistles ever the worse , so long as the holy doctrine therein contained , was not injured ? can we think that when the holy apostles preached , that they had still the very self-same phrases ? this were idle to imagine , and yet they had the self-same gospel to preach in every place . i speak not this , as if i approved of altering the holy writings ; no , not in the least iota ; yet if accidentally , in transcribing , or printing , there should be some such failure , i do not think that by and by that copy were to be rejected , or the authority of the scriptures therefore to be called in question , that men might set up themselves above it . some under pretence of being the church , and others pretending the spirit , whilst they both reject the church and the spirit , as held forth in , and speaking by the holy scriptures . a plain instance of this , we have in the papists , and most paedo-baptists , who whilst they seem to admire general councils , fathers , &c. they regard not the decrees of the best councils and fathers , which were held by the apostles and elders , and brethren at jerusalem , who among other things , forbid the eating of things strangled , and blood , which the church observed for several hundred of years after [ for indeed they were delivered to the churches to be kept , not to be broken , acts . , . ] and yet without all conscience of these decrees , they feed upon blood , &c. and on the other side , how ridgidly do they impose the decrees of the trent councils , in the case of transubstantiation ( though never heard of before it was there invented ) insomuch as they have punished with the cruelest death , such as in conscience could not subscribe unto it . god give them a better vnderstanding , and more moderation for the future . but ye , brethren , as you have received these holy decrees among the rest of the heavenly rules left unto us by the most antient fathers , even the apostles of our lord , so walk in them , and keep the ordinances as they were delivered by them , who received them of the lord. now the lord increase our faith , that we may be able to stand fast in the truth , and to overcome all difficulties . so prays your brother , thomas grantham . hear the church , &c. or , an epitome of the chief controversies between the papists , and the baptized believers . by thomas grantham . let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the beginning : if that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you , ye also shall continue in the son , and in the father , and this is the promise which he hath promised us , even eternal life , john. unto the perfect words of the new-testament nothing may be added , and from which nothing may be taken away , by him that will lead a life agreeable to the gospel . apollinar . l. . c. . london , printed in the year , . the epistle to the reader . christian friend , it is now about six and twenty years since it pleased a learned papist to send seven queries to the people commonly called anabaptists , in the county of lincoln , about which many papers were exchanged , and in the year ; some part of them were printed under the title of the baptist against the papist , or the scripture and rome in contention about the supreme seat of judgment in controversies of religion . to which the querist never replied in print , but only sent me a few notes in manuscript ; which seven queries , with my seven anti-queries i shall annex to this epistle . the truth is , i did then , and do still look upon this sort of christian-adversaries ( so i call them ) to be the most subtil , as well as coherent with their principles , keeping close to their arguments , and using all very much the same mediums : and were the truth with them ( as in many things i am satisfied it is not ) this very thing would be their high commendation . but missing the heavenly mark ( more is the pity ) they must needs be the more dangerous , wherein they stand opposed to the truth , of which being very sensible ▪ i cannot , as i love plain truth , and the souls of all men , but indeavour as much as in me is , after a christian sort to undeceive ( if it may be ) some of them , and to prevent others from being deceived by them . i speak not this as fearing them , but as truly loving them , as they bear the name of christians , and doubtless are as zealous in their way as any , tho i do verily believe they are under the greatest mistakes of any that prof●ss the christian religion , except professed enthusiasts . that i treat them in love is no new thing , let my words written more than twenty years since witness , now in my epistle to the reader thus you find them . not that i envy those of the papal church , or desire them any evil ; not that i desire they should be exposed to a suffering condition for matters of religion , or that they should be denied any liberty in that respect which i desire my self , nor for any other prejudice ( god knoweth ) do i publish this small treatise , &c. and what i said then , i say now , being verily perswaded by the scripture , and all good principles which i could ever meet with , that they and all men [ living soberly and quietly under the government ] ought to have at least a friendly connivance under our differing sentiments from the established form or order of worship , &c. but i am no dictator , i must leave these things to the pleasure of god , and the prudence of our governors , only this is my determination , in christ's strength to live and die faithful to what i know of the ways of truth , and to my own conscience . praying constantly for the happiness of my prince , and all his peaceable subjects . tho. grantham . hear the church : the third part . containing an epitome of the controversies depending between those who are commonly called papists , and those commonly called ana-baptists : occasioned by seven queries propounded by a learned papist . let the christian reader know , that it is no idle conceit of the parts of the author , above his brethren , nor yet above his adversaries ( many of whom are undoubtedly men of very rare parts and accomplishments ) which moveth him thus to appear , and to call forth all the strength of rome in argument to defend their church and religion against the poor baptized churches in this nation : but it is only the clear evidence of truth , on their side , as contained in the holy oracles of god , which gives boldness to this great undertaking . which in all due humility , christian love , and yet with holy confidence , is thus attempted , for a fair trial of the case or cases depending between the parties above mentioned . in the name of god therefore let us proceed to the particulars of the seven queries sent to the baptists by a learned papist , which indeed contains the sum of the controversies between the said parties . papist query . baptist anti-query . whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? what controversie in point of religion can you resolve without the written word of god ? and whether the written word of god be a perfect rule for matters of religion ? the first part of this anti-query concludes in the negative ; the latter part in the affirmative , and affords ( as i think ) this undeniable argument , that which is the only perfect rule to all christians in the greatest matters of religion , and that without which neither christ , the church , nor christian religion can be known , is the only infallible rule by which all controversies in point of religion , are to be resolved . but the holy scriptures are the only perfect rule to all christians in the greatest matters of religion ; and that without which neither christ , the church , nor christian religion can be known . ergo , the holy scriptures are the only infallible rule by which all controversies in point of religion among christians are to be resolved . papist query . baptist anti-query . how know you precisely what is the true word of god ? whether some book must not of necessity speak for it self [ or be received for god's word upon its own evidence ? ] and whether the holy scriptures do not best deserve that privilege ? and whether it be not too great presumption to say , there are no holy books , but those which you and we have received for such , seeing those which we have , tell us there were other holy writings , which never yet came to our hands , nor to yours ? forasmuch as no society of christians in these days can bear witness to the truth of any thing upon their own knowledg , sight , or hearing ( as the apostles did , john . pet. . . ) for scarce so much as one hundred years , and this their testimony , also , being but of human authority , it remaineth of necessity , that some books of record must be received upon the authority of the author , in whose name they speak , and the divine evidence of the matter contained in them ; and hence we argue , the sufficiency of the scriptures own authority , to command our reception of them , speaking to us in the name of god , and carrying in themselves divine evidences in respect of the matters therein contained . papist query . baptist anti-query . . how know you that your copies and translations of the bible , are the true word of god , since the original writings are not come to your hands ? what copies and translations of the scriptures have you that are more true than ours ? and where are the original manuscripts of the prophets and apostles ? seeing it was not the pleasure of the divine wisdom , to preserve , and present to all nations , the very first pieces of paper in which the divine oracles were written ; but rather to preserve many copies , and cause them to be spread throughout the world. and seeing no sort of christians dare pretend to have translated any of those copies by an infallible pen , but only according to the best skill they have acquired or learned in the original tongues ; it would better become all learned christians to bend their minds to rectifie ( what they may ) any imperfection or mistake that may be in any of the translations , rather than by such queries as this , to open a gap to vnbelief and irreligion . and though much might be said ( by a captious person ) against the english translation of the papists , yet to prevent vain jangling , we refuse not to be tried in the cases depending in these queries ▪ and anti-queries , either by their translation of the bible , or by that which is allowed by authority ? and seeing no papist is able to produce the prime originals , let them beware how they quarrel with our copies , lest some quarrel with theirs : and ●so instead of edification , they bring forth nothing but vain contention : and show themselves ungrateful to god , and mischievous to men . for what man of any modesty would upbraid another , because he never saw the original writings , when neither himself , nor any man living ever saw them , nor is ever like to see them ? papist query . baptist anti-query . where we differ about the sense of the word , by whom must we be tried ? the dead letter cannot explain it self . when we differ about the true church , or the meaning of authors [ be they fathers , or councils ] by whom must we be tried ? these cannot speak for themselves , more than the scriptures : and whether , the scriptures being compared together , do not explain themselves ? also , whether this be not an opprobrious , and ignominious speech , for you to call the scripture a dead letter ? and whether the true lovers of the scriptures , ever vouchsafed them such ill , and indeed improper language ? of all the seven queries , this is the most difficult ; see what we have said to this difficulty in our precedent epistle . let the papists prove themselves to be the true church , and the contention about the power of the church to decide differences which may ▪ arise about the meaning of the scriptures , will with more ease be brought to a period . in the mean time , as we must every one give an account of our selves to god , so it is the duty of every christian to labour to understand the scriptures , mat. . . pro. . , . papist query . baptist anti-query . what clear text have you out of the scriptures , for the procession of the holy ghost from the father , and the son ? or for changing the sabbath from saturday to sunday ? or for prohibiting poligamy , or infant-baptism ? and whether there be not as clear texts to prove unwritten traditions , purgatory , and the real presence ? whether the baptism of the true church be not one ? and whether the one baptism be not expresly found in the scriptures ? and whether the scriptures do not prohibit all baptism of water , beside that one ? and whether the papists have not confessed , in many of their books , that infant-baptism is not found in , nor grounded upon the scripture ? and then , whether it be not clear , that all the texts , which speak of baptism in water , do prohibit infant-baptism ? also , whether john . . & . . & . . be not clear texts , that the holy spirit proceedeth from the father , and the son ? also whether cor. . , , . do not as much prohibit one man for having two wives , as one woman for having two husbands ? and , whether it do not clearly prohibit the latter ? also , whether there be any thathold the first day of the week under the notion of a sabbath , among the baptized churches ; and yet whether there be not clear proof for the religious observation of it , acts . . cor. . . also , whether it be not absurd for you to ask for clear texts , to prove unwritten things ? also whether purgatory , and the real presence , as you hold them , are not plainly destructive to some articles of the christian faith. for , is not this the faith of all sound christians ? . that almighty god does love no creature in this world , so much as the creature man ; nor does he take any creature on earth into that nearness of vnion with himself , as the souls and bodies of those that shall be saved . . that the blessed body of christ , after his ascension into glory , admits of no change , either by addition to his substance of his flesh , and blood ; or diminution of any part thereof from either . now it is most certain , that the opinion of the real presence by transubstantiation of bread and wine into the very body and blood of christ , god-man , doth evidently militate against these clear truths , with the greatest opposition , as will appear by these considerations following , . though the love of god to mankind , especially to all that shall be saved , is exceeding great ; yet it is certain , he never died , nor ever will so take them into union with himself , as to transubstantiate their bodies into the divine substance of christ , and so make their flesh of the same essence with himself , as he is god blessed for ever . and therefore it is in no wise to be believed , that god almighty so loves the creatures , bread and wine , as to turn , or transubstantiate the very substance of them , into the very substance of the only son of god , whom we believe to be of one substance with the father . it is also further to be considered , that though the two natures in christ , i. e. the divine , and human , are united after an unspeakable manner ; yet no christian does believe , that god did transubstantiate the substance of the humane nature , into the substance , of the divine nature , and that the forms of flesh and blood only does remain . how then is it at all credible that god should deifie the creatures of bread and wine , by turning them into the divine essence , as well as human , to be worshipped with the highest degree of adoration which is proper to god himself ? con. trent . sess . . can. . and the words of bellarmin are very plain ; god ( saith he ) is verily and truly to be worshipped , mat. . but christ in the eucharist , is very god ; ergo. thus much of the first proposition . and for the second ; . it is to be considered , that if the very substance of bread and wine , be really transubstantiated into the substance of christ's flesh and blood , then they do either remain that same substance of christ's flesh for ever , or else they are after some time either annihilated , or turned to corruption . but to say either of these , is flatly to deny , or oppose express scripture , which tells us , that the flesh of christ saw no corruption , and that he continueth ever . and for the first , that bread and wine , after the words of consecration , remains for ever , of the substance of christ's real body , it is no way credible . for then the body of christ must have received a mighty augmentation since its ascension . for , if all the bread which has been consecrated for almost years , shall be supposed to be all in one place , at any time ( as sure the whole flesh of christ's body is so ) it might , for magnitude , compare with a mountain . and if all the vast quantity of wine , which hath been consecrated for the like space of time , were supposed to be collected ( as sure all the blood of christ remains in his body , being impossible to be shed since he went into heaven ) it might compare with a considerable fountain of water . but both these are so very absurd , that 't is hoped no christian will affirm them ; and therefore that doctrine of transubstantiation , which necessarily infers these , and many more absurdities , is by no means to be received . if the papists shall reply , and say , that though the bread and wine be really turned into the flesh and blood , body , soul , and divinity of christ , yet it is not necessary that they remain so for ever ; i shall earnestly desire them to shew us what becomes of it then ? and i ask whether by such reply they do not make the real and glorious body of christ the most mutable thing in heaven and earth , being , according to this doctrin , subject to be really made , and unmade every day , and that in a thousand places on the same day ? if any ( who are little acquainted with the doctrine of the present church of rome ) shall question whether they do indeed hold so gross an error , as to teach , that the bread and wine in the eucharist is turned into the very substance of the divine nature of christ , as well as his humane nature ; he may see it fully asserted by a learned papist in a certain catechism , entituled , an abridgment to christian doctrine , the last ▪ edition , printed at doway , . pag. , . in these words . quest . what is the blessed eucharist ? answ . it is the body and blood of jesus christ ; true god , and true man , whole christ , under the outward forms of bread and wine . quest . in what manner is christ present under these forms ? answ . by the true and real presence of his divine and human nature , and not figuratively only , as some would have it . god in mercy open the eyes of all that are thus blinded with the doctrine of transubstantiation ; which word transubstantiation , the papists confess is not found in scripture . see the said catechism , pag. . papist query . baptist anti-query . whether vniversality both for time and place , be not an evident mark of the true church ? what church can you name that hath that mark ? and whether the woman which st. john saw ( called mystery bablyon ) be not meant of rome ? and whether her cup was not universally received , so that all nations were made drunk thereby ? papist query . baptist anti-query . whether you have really this mark ? that is , whether you can fetch out of all ages , and nations , professors of your religion ; in particular you are desired to name but one , or two in the first six hundred years after christ of your profession ; for example , such as held the sole sufficiency of scripture for the deciding controversies , and denied the lawfulness and vsefulness of infant-baptism ? whether any man can shew this mark , as it is here called for , without the help of human history ? and whether human history be infallibly true , so as to be a ground for divine faith ? and whether those human records which concerned christian religion for the first three hundred years after christ were not the most of them burnt by the persecutors of christians ? and whether those which remain have not been much altered ? and whether they are not in many things contradictory ? also , whether infant-baptism was so much as heard of in the first century , and then how should any be named which denied the usefulness of it in this age ? and whether the first clear mention of it be not from tertullian ? and whether the learned do not confess that he opposed it in the third century as an irrational and unwarrantable custom ? also , whether that church , whose manner of admitting persons into her communion , her constitution and government , are according to the scriptures , mat. . , . heb. . , , &c. be not the true church of christ ? and whether the baptized churches ( commonly called anabaptists ) do not excel in these particulars , all other churches whatsoever ? of all the marks of the church , so much stood upon by the papists , this of antiquity leads , and indeed it is of that importance , that if they fail of this mark they are like to miss all the rest , and that they must fail of the best antiquity , in the case of their baptism ( without which they can have no true church ) will with much ease be made evident . . because by their own confession infant-baptism ( which is the baptism of the present roman-church ) is not grounded upon the scripture . here they fail of scripture-antiquity , which is the best . . because they have not one credible witness for infant-baptism ▪ in the first century after christ ▪ . because it is acknowledged by themselves , that they have changed the manner of the administration of baptism from dipping to a little sprinkling , which indeed is no baptism . whereas on the contrary , the best antiquity is as clear for our baptism [ i. e. believers baptism ] as the light of the sun , many thousands of believers being baptized by john baptist , and more by christ ( or his appointment ) john . . & . . three thousand believers baptized in one day , act. . . and multitudes of believers being baptized in every age since the institution of baptism , yea all the antient fathers for the first three hundred years , ( if not for the first six hundred years ) after christ were baptized believers , so that i should think the gates of hell cannot prevail against our church in the case of baptism , whether we consider the subject , manner , end and use of holy baptism , whereas , the only witness which is pretended by my learned adversary for the first century is dionysius the areopagite , mentioned , acts. . . who is said to speak thus , in a book entituled eccles . hierarch . cult . the custom of our mother the church in baptizing children is not to be contemned , nor to be judged superfluous , nor indeed to be credited , if it were not an apostolical tradition . truly this author speaks not like a man that was satisfied in this point of infant baptism , and such is the faintness of his evidence , that methinks he should leave a suspicion upon every man that reads him , that he did not know what to say , nor whereof to affirm , but leaving every man to think of the words as he pleases , we will hear what the learned have said concerning this book eccles . hirarch . first , they put it down in the catalogue of forged writings , and cajetan a papist denys that work to be written by dionysius : their reasons are , . because he never makes mention of st. paul in that book , who was the happy instrument by whom dionysius was converted : and yet he extolls hierotheus as his master . . because he writes of many orders , of popes , priests , and monks , of which the first age had none . . eusebius and jerome in their catalogues never make mention of this book . and gregory the great doth say it was not written by dionysius . . illiricus hath ten very considerable reasons , why this book was written long after the death of dionysius , one is this , the author talks often of the distinction of the quire , and the church : whereas ( saith he ) the christians had no such churches an hundred years after dionysi●s's time . this author therefore will never bear so great a weight ▪ as to prove infant baptism to have been either taught or practised by the apostles . being thus found destitute of all antiquity in the first age , let us hear what one of their own chronographers tells us concerning both the beginning of infant-baptism and the want of any evidence for infant-baptism , in this nation till more then three hundred years after christ . robert fabian , a papist , in his chron. part . c. . fol. . tells us , the faith had endured in brittain from the time of lucius ( the first christian king in britain ) near upon the season of four hundred years , and odd , and then in the next chapter he gives account of augustin ▪ the monk coming into england , and how he prevailed with some bishops to observe his orders . and in fol. . he saith , but for all this there were of them that said , that they might not leave the custom which they so long had con●inued , without the assent of all such as used the same . then austin gathered a synod , to the which came seven bishops of brittains , with the wisest men of the famous abby of bangor . but first they took counsel of an holy man , whether they should be obedient to austin or not . and he said , if you find him humble and meek , as to christ's disciple belongeth , that then they should assent to him , which meekness they should perceive in him , if he at their coming into the synod , or council , arose against them . when the said bishops entred the said synod , augustine sate still in the chair and removed not , wherefore they were wroth and disdained him , and would not obey to his requests . then he said to them , since ye will not assent to my hests generally , assent to me especially , in three things . the first is , that you keep easter day in due form and time , as it is ordained . the second , that ye give christendom to children . and the third is , that ye preach unto the anglish the word of god as i afore-time have exhorted you : and all the other deale i will suffer you to amend , and reform among your selves . but they would not thereof . from this passage it is very evident , that infant-baptism came not into this nation till about four hundred years after the gospel was first received here ; and therefore the papists must needs fail of antiquity here , and must , ( if they will do us right ) give place to the baptized believers , not only in the case of believers-baptism , but also in respect of the denial of baptism to infants , seeing these seven bishops , and the wisest men of bangor withstood augustine the monk , in that point then , as we withstand the papists in that point now . and as we have suffered many hard things , even to the burning of our bodies in smithfield , for bearing witness to the ancient and true baptism of christ , even so it fared very ill with those that withstood infant-baptism , &c. in the days of austin ; for fabian relates how they were many hundreds of them murdered ; and mr. fox seems to lay the fault upon austin . i conclude with these two short arguments , . the present church of rome cannot possibly prove her self to be the true church of christ ; ergo , the present church of rome is not the true church of christ . . the present church of rome hath no true baptism ; ergo , she is no ▪ the true church of christ . let the papists defend their present church against these arguments [ the grounds whereof are delivered truly in the precedent discourses ] without which , all they can say , will signifie little ; for what power soever the church hath , it is little to them , unless they make good proof that they are the true church of jesus christ . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * it is said of the roman christians , that the light of piety shined in their minds when they heard peter , but they were not satisfied with once hearing neither satisfied with the vnwritten doctrine that was d●livered ▪ but earnestly besought st. mark , ( whose gospel is now in ure ) that he would leave in writing unto them the doctrine which they had received by preaching , &c. euseb . hist . l. . chap. . we see that the church of rome esteemed the gospel in writing , above the delivery of it in preaching , though they heard it from peter himself . sure they are not the same now as then ▪ for tradition ( from whom it's hard to say ) is more now to them than the scripture . and the scripture nothing to them , but as delivered and interpreted by tradition . notes for div a -e * the principles of the doctrine of christ , repentance , faith , doctrine of baptisms , laying on of hands , resurrection of the dead , eternal judgment . christ as received in the power and order of these principles , becomes a foundation to his church , in which respect the principles are here called the foundation also . mark . . rom. . . joh. . . acts . . tit. . . mat. . , . cor. . . rom. . . joh. . , . eph. . . mat. . . mat. . . act. . . act. . . rom. . . heb. . . acts . . act. . act. . gal. . . mat. . , . cor. . acts. . . cor. . . acts. . . mark ▪ . . acts : . , . mark . . john . . acts . . mat. . . acts . . gal. . . heb. . , . mat. . . cor. . , . john . . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . , , , . mat. . . notes for div a -e dr. willet synops . papis . p. . acts . . heb. . . this catechise is printed with the approbation of william hide . d. d. president of the english colledge at doway ▪ the present baptized believers only do hold to the old religion at least in the point of sacred baptism a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england and those of the baptised believers written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations, by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england and those of the baptised believers written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations, by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . p. [s.n.], london : . reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- relations -- baptists. concord -- religious aspects -- early works to . baptists -- relations -- church of england. baptists -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england , and those of the baptised believers . written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations , by tho. grantham . follow peace with all men , and holiness , without which no man shall see the lord. heb. . . london , printed in the year , . the preface to the reader . the complaint is both great and just , that christians are so divided amongst themselves , that it 's hard for an impartial christian to find where to fix for his own comfortable society . and this calamity is much aggravated by the backwardness of each party to offer any thing to accommodate these differences , each expecting rather that their opposites should wholly conform to their sentiments , and relinquish their own . and what may be thought ( in that case ) of this present overture we cannot certainly divine , nor will be too confident that there is nothing of that nature in it . but of this we will be confident , that the things here desired , do carry much of their reasonableness in the very nature of them , and have their approbation both from the sacred word , and the works of those to whom they now address themselves for a christian compliance . but it will be said , what are the men that make this overture ? our answer is , we are the servants of the living god ; or , we are christians ; and having seen the discords and ruines which have befallen the christian nations , do heartily desire those breaches may be made up . and as it is not , so 't is hoped it will not be deemed , any transgression of the law of god or man for any christians to seek for peace one with another in the * truth , notwithstanding their differing circumstances in respect of worldly honours , or the disparity of their education ; seeing they ought all to be cloathed with humility ; the strong to bear the infirmity of the weak , and not to please themselves . the brother of high degree to rejoyce in that he is made low , and the chief to become servant to the rest . when paul heard of the divisions which happened in the church at corinth , how does he blame them for their carnality as the cause , and bestir himself to recover their unity , in the truth which at first they had received ? cor. . . now i beseech you brethren by the name of our lord jesus christ , that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you , but that ye be perfectly joyned together , in the same mind , and in the same judgment . referring them to the foundation , and rule of all christian unity , that only christ was crucified for them ; that christ is not to be divided ; and that they were baptized in the name of christ , and that therefore they should not follow any man , but as he follows christ . but it seems this great apostle did not live to see an end of their divisions , as appears not only from the close of his last epistle to them , cor. . , . but also from the epistle of clement ( who survived him ) which he wrote upon the occasion of that ungodly sedition ( so he calls it ) which had kindled among them through pride and self-love , which he vehemently laboured to extinguish by many arguments , but specially by reducing them to the blessed example of christ their leader , and the practise of such as lived after a godly sort . his words are these : christ jesus our lord the scepter of the majesty of god , came not in vain boasting of arrogance and pride , although he could do all things , but in humility of mind , according as the holy spirit had spoken concerning him . — see , beloved friends , what an example is given unto us : for if the lord was so humble , what shall we do , who are come under the yoke of his grace ? — let us stick to these therefore who live godly and peaceably , and not to them who hypocritically only seem to desire peace : for somewhere he saith , they blessed with their mouth , but with their heart they cursed ; — for their heart was not right with him , neither were they stedfast in his covenant . now if the points in controversie among the christians at corinth , were of as great moment as ours ( as that may be made evident * ) ; then 't is as rational for us to seek for concord each with other , as it was for paul and clement to seek to unite them . and hence we are the more desirous to make this present overture for christian amity with the pious protestants in the church of england , for divers causes : and first ; as it is very evident there hath bin a great departure from the simplicity of the gospel ( both in the form and power of it ) since the plantation of it in the world by christ and his apostles ; so also it is certain that many good men in ages past , as well as in this present age , have still bin labouring ( and that often-times under great tryals ) for the restoration of the truth to its purity , some in one point , and some in another more especially . and here the english protestant hath bin as active as others , some in reforming divers things in doctrine and practice ; others in keeping the ground they have gained , against the opposers of reformation . now this work ( as it is of god , ) ought to be carried on in the nations of the world to its perfection . namely , till the truths of the gospel be delivered from all humane innovations which have incumbred it , to the disturbance of the peace of christians in all ages since they found opportunity to croud themselves into the service of god. but the great obstruction of this work of reformation , has bin the falling out of the reformers among themselves . and this is the case of the sober protestant , and the baptised believer , in this age and nation : the latter not so honouring the first as he ought , with respect to what god hath done by him ; and the former despising the latter , by whom god is pleased ( notwithstanding ) to bring to light some antient truths which the former overslip'd , or took not due notice of ▪ and by this impatience and disrespect in each towards other , they prove inimical to the very work , which in the main they both design to promote . it is the way of ingenuous men in reviving decayed arts , to honour their predecessors , though inferior to themselves , and to encourage those that succeed to attempt things more excellent . why are not christians as ingenuous in their endeavours to restore decayed religion ? there is nothing in the authour of our profession , or the profession it felf , but candor and ingenuity . wherefore if we intend the furtherance of the work of reformation , hitherto carried on through manifold afflictions , let us timely consider our common interest , which is to make one shoulder to defend what our ancestors have worthily atcheived ; as also to joyn our industry for the restoration of every truth which they omitted . . our second motive shall respect the articles of the church of england , in which if a few things ( which are not of the substance of the christian religion ) were explained or amended , it were a very easie thing for the church of england , and the baptised believers in this nation , to compose their differences in point of doctrine and faith , as touching the basis , or foundation of the christian religion . and to the intent that unity may be herein attained between us , we shall humbly beg leave with plainness to shew ( when we offer our proposals ) the particulars whereof we are doubtful in some of the said articles . our third motive to seek for concord with the pious protestant , is the contents of that remarkable * letter , long since sent to mr. j. tombes b. d. ( upon occasion of his learned disputations concerning the restauration of holy baptism to its primitive use ) and written by that reverend man dr. barlow , now lord bishop of lincoln , which verbatim is as followeth : — i am a friend to your person ( whom i have known ( though unknown to you ) this years ) and to your opinion too ( as to the main of it ) ; for i believe and know , that there is neither precept nor practice in scripture for paedobaptism , nor any just evidence for it , for about two hundred years after christ . the first who bears witness to infant baptism practised in the church , is tertullian , but so , as he expresly dislikes and condemns it as an unwarrantable and irrational custome . and nazianzen a good while after him ( in his oration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dislikes it too , and would not have infants brought to baptism till they were of some age , and able to answer for themselves . sure i am that in the primitive times they were first to be catechumeni , and then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , illuminati , or baptizati , and this not only children of pagans , or pagans converted , but children of christian parents , nazianzen ( though a bishop's son ) being not baptized till he was about years of age , as appears in his life ; and the like is evident of some others . the truth is , infant baptism did ( how or by whom i know not ) come in , in the second century , and in the d and th began to be practised , though not generally , and defended as lawful from that text ( grosly misunderstood ) joh. . . vpon the like gross mistake of joh. . . they did for many centuries ( both in the greek and latin church ) communicate infants , and give them the lord's supper , and i confess they might do both as well as either : but altho they baptized some infants , and thought it lawful so to do , yet austin was the first that ever said it was necessary inde durus pater infantum . i have seen what my learned and worthy friend dr. hammond , mr. baxter and others say in defence of it , and i confess i wonder not a little that men of such great parts should say so much to so little purpose , for i have not yet seen any thing like an argument for it . and not only this letter , but many other testimonies which are found in the writings of learned protestants * to the same purpose ( as hath bin shewn by diverse hands in our books now extant ) do greatly perswade us to hope , that the controversies about baptism draws towards an end , and were this point well agreed , many other things would be therewith so moderated , as that we should ( by gods help ) approach that blessing , to have one heart and one way . . our fourth motive is taken from that great dread which seems to be at present upon this land , of the encroachment of popery : but what is in this god knoweth , nor shall we concern our selves with secrets . and seeing it is rational to believe , that nothing shall sooner bring such fears and heavy judgments upon us , than our own dissentions and divisions ( in which there is too much dissenting from the truth ) therefore do we the more earnestly desire to dispose our minds to unite in truth and charity , with all such as love god and their neighbour , and walk according to the general rules of christianity : resolving to bear what ( with a good conscience ) may be born for peacesake in the truth , in which we shall ( upon a friendly and free debate ) be agreed . our last and principal motive , is , that hereby god shall be glorified , in the furtherance of a faithful and impartial reformation of life and religion , when we who have had so great a share in contending one against another , shall after a christian and manly sort , cease our conflicts each with other , by stooping to what of sincere truth hath appeared in our disputes : and not leave our divisions hereditary to our posterity , but rather a pious example of our charity to be by them pursued . for seeing it is a rational presumption , that there hath bin said what well can be said , on both sides ; what then remains but that we bend our minds to cease our strife by such a christian compliance , as may justly render us willing to be overcome by truth on both parts , where the matter shall require it . and herein let none so much consult his own glory as the good of christians in general ; as it is written , let no man seek his own , but every man anothers wealth . and again , let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification . and let that christian speech of clement come to mind and conclude this preface : is there any one then ( saith he ) that is bravely spirited among you ? is there any one that hath compassion ? doth any one abound with charity ? let him say , if this contention ( sedition or schism ) be for me , or by my means , i will depart , i will go my ways whithersoever you please ; i will do what the rest commands . only let the sheepfold of christ enjoy peace with * the elders which god hath placed over it . he that shall do this , shall purchase to himself great glory in the lord , and every place shall receive him . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prayer to god for his blessing upon this present endeavour for concord amongst dissenting christians . o most mighty , most holy , and most gracious god! what are we that we should speak unto thee , the god of heaven and earth ? we beseech thee pardon our unworthiness , and for the sake of christ our saviour , hear this prayer , which in his name we do with our whole heart pour out before thy majesty . o lord , in thy fatherly compassion behold the sad divisions which have befallen the christian people throughout the whole world. and seeing nothing is too hard for thee , graciously be pleased to move upon the hearts of all sober and heavenly-minded christians ( however differing in some points concerning the christian profession ) and so work by thy spirit of power , love and wisdom , that they may be so united in brotherly affection , as speedily to consider one another in love : and to have compassion one of another under their unhappy differences in opinion . o destroy the spirit of pride and blood-thirstiness from amongst the christian people . and let all that are called by that name be ashamed that ever such wrath hath bin found amongst them , and let them be humbled before thy majesty in the remembrance of it , o lord , we beseech thee . most gracious god , we confess unto thee , we are not worthy to undertake any thing in behalf of the peace and vnity of divided christians : but thou ( o god ) that despisest not the base and weak things of this world , be intreated to bless our present enterprise , as it is consistent with thy pleasure , to the good of thy people universally ; that they may be one in truth and peace , according to thy word , which is truth . we beseech thee to bow the heart of the mighty , the wise and honorable in the christian nations , to study truth and peace , to condescend to any thing for thy glory , and thy peoples happiness : and we pray , that none who are called by thy name , may any longer be puffed up , for one , and against another . o teach those that love thee , to strive together with one mind for the truth and power of religion according to the gospel . good lord , be intreated for thy names sake , in behalf of all those that are of pious meaning , in these nations especially , that their hearts being intirely knit together in the great and more necessary parts of thy worship , they may glorifie thy name with one consent , by a charitable forbearance , in things which are not sinful in thy sight . we intreat thee ( our god ) make us thy servants ever to be ready on our parts , to evidence by act , what here we propose in words , and grant thy spirit to enable us herein to serve thee , and all such as fear thee , and love thy testimonies . and grant that none of thy people may uncharitably censure this our undertaking for concord amongst thy servants . grant them patience to consider what is here offered , and where we may seem deficient herein , lead others to supply what is wanting , that through thy blessing upon our united endeavours , the good here intended may be prosperously promoted , to thy praise , o lord , to the great increase of charity , and therewith to the true comfort of thy people throughout the whole world. even so , lord god almighty ; even , so , amen . a friendly epistle to all the bishops & ministers of the church of england . reverend sirs , may it please you in the meekness and gentleness of christ , to lay aside ( a little ) those exterior honours which are conferred upon you , and to condescend to men of low degree , and in that condescention seriously to ponder , what is herein with humility and sincerity submitted to your consideration . we do seriously account it a part of our infelicity , to see the distractions and divisions , which are in our land , about things relating to the worship of god , and our saviour jesus christ ; and therewithal it is too evident that the power of godliness is much neglected , and the ways of christianity greatly depraved , whereupon many that love the lord jesus , are so estranged among themselves , as to become adversaries to their own peace , and the comfort of each other . may it then please god , to lead us all to the consideration of these ill effects , and to remove the causes of them . and seeing we may perhaps be under worse apprehensions concerning one another , than there is real cause for , let it be calmly considered on both parts , that our greatest differences are about ceremonies ; and those also of humane device ( as we conceive ) the best of which are not worth the loss of one soul , and therefore in no wise fit to adventure the breach of our peace and christian concord , for their sake , which may be the cause of perishing to many . may it therefore seem well pleasing to you , the bishops of the church of england , with your brethren of the ministery , to admit of some friendly and free debate with the bishops and teachers of the baptized churches in this nation ; to try if by any means a way may be found to bring us to christian concrd in the gospel of god. to effect this , is either impossible , or difficult only . not the first , sith our differences lie not in the doctrinal part of any foundation-article of the christian religion , so much as in the application or practick part of them . for , to touch a little the grand points about which we differ , viz. sacred baptism , and the discipline of the church , of these we spake the same thing ; for thus you teach , that in baptism there is an inward and spiritual grace , and an outward and visible sign ; and that repentance , whereby we forsake sin , and faith , whereby we stedfastly believe the promises of god made to us in that sacrament , are the things required of all persons that are to be baptized . and hereunto we do most heartily subscribe . and touching holy discipline , your doctrine is , that the manner of proceeding in excommunication , is first by gentle admonition , and that once or twice given with the spirit of meekness , if the fault be not notoriously known : and next by open reprehension , afterwards by publick sentence of the church to put him from the company of the faithful , to deliver him to satan , to denounce him an heathen and a publican , if no admonitions will serve , and the crimes be very offensive . to this doctrine like wise we do give our full consent . nevertheless it must be granted a very great difficulty ( as things now stand ) to reform what is really amiss on your part in the practice relating to those two points of the christian religion ; especially seeing that the worldly interest of so many carnal-minded men , seems to depend upon the continuation of the errors which have befallen you in the practice of these holy institutes . howbeit this difficulty is not greater than it was to reform , what was as really amiss in that great ordinance , the lord's table , whether we consider their error who for many centuries gave the communion to infants ; or theirs , who by their transubstantiation destroy the very nature of the sacrament . nor shall we here forget , but thankfully remember the great travel and sufferings of your martyrs , and the pious zeal which appeared in many of them , when called to reduce that holy ordinance of the lord's supper from many corruptions , by which it had been prophaned . but yet we must needs condole their shortness , in not looking with like diligence into the pristine purity of the other sacrament . by which oversight , we which survive them , are exposed the more to our present difficulties . and hence we may borrow that passage in chron. . . because ye did it not at the first , therefore the lord our god made a breach upon us , for that we sought him not after the due order . and here we ought to learn , that seeing god would not indulge his servant david in such an oversight ( when yet his intention was very pious ) will have his own methods duly observed in things pertaining to his service . your wisdoms know very well who hath said , a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ; and that every plant which the heavenly father hath not planted , must be rooted up ; and how vain the worship ( even of the true god ) is esteemed by christ , which is taught by the precepts of men ? all which crys aloud that religion be restored to its primitive purity , that so men may give unto god the things that are god's , and cease to serve him with their own inventions . what we shall here propose to these holy ends , is no more than what at present we conceive to be very needful ; howbeit , we may not prescribe to you , but only offer an occasion to your wisdoms to consider us as christians , not as enemies . for it is evident that those coercive ways which some encline to , and under which we have bin , and still are exercised , are not like to effect christian amity and unity , but rather to make the breach much wider . that then it may please god ( even the god of peace ) to direct your wisdoms to those wholsome methods , which may be natural to procure and continue a lasting peace between us in the truth of the gospel , shall be our prayer to him for you , and in whose fear we humbly make these following proposals . and first . i. concerning the articles , &c. as we have already hinted , that ( in our judgment ) some things in the articles of the church do admit of some amendment , we shall therefore humbly propose our doubts in that case , that the fundamentals being secur'd , other things may the more easily be reconciled . . our first scruple concerns the third article , where it requires , belief that christ went down into hell , besides his being in the state of the dead , and buried in the sepulchre . now this passage is so dubious , as that even mr. rogers , who wrote a book in defence of the articles , doth confess , that the native and undoubted sence of this article is not known , so that we conceive it ought not to be required as an article necessary to the christian * faith. . in the th article all things contain'd in the three creeds , are required [ throughly to be believed , ] in some of which , is the said clause , of christ's descension into hell , ( the meaning whereof is doubtful . ) and some terms in the creed of athanasius , are so hard to be understood , that we think they ought not to be imposed as necessary : we humbly conceive the modesty of hillary , more safe than some os the zealous speeches of athanasius , who tells us that whatsoever is used more , than the father , son , and holy ghost , is beyond the compass of speech , the reach of of sence , and the capacity of understanding . and though he had used the words [ three hypostasis ] yet he confesses this is to do things unlawful , to speak that which ought not to be spoken , to attempt things not licensed , to put things in peril of the speech of men , which ought to be kept in the religiousness of minds . and austin confesses that it ought not to be spoken , [ how ] the father , son , and holy spirit , are three . a holy trinity there is , but [ how ] it subsisteth god only knoweth . and here both the modesty and caution of mr. calvin also is worth our consideration , who speaking of the titles , or expressions , viz. a trinity of persons in the vnity of the godhead , saith , if the names have not been without cause invented , we ought to take heed that in rejecting them we be not justly blamed of proud presumptuousness . i would to god ( saith he ) they where buried indeed , so that this faith were agreed of all men , that the father , son and holy ghost are one god , and yet that the father is not the son , nor the holy ghost the son , but distinct by certain properties . instit . l. . c. . sect. . . the th article would have it believed , that no works done without faith in jesus christ are pleasant to god , &c. which we think is doubtful , considering how it is said that the prayers and alms of cornelius were come up for a memorial before god. act. . , , . yet 't is certain he did not then know jesus christ . . the th article seems doubtful , where it teacheth , that none can be saved who diligently frame their life according to the light or law of nature , &c. whereas if god have given them no other law or light to walk by , we conceive it more safe for us to leave them to the lord ( who will not gather where he hath not strewed ) than thus to censure them . . the second paragraph of the th article may well be omited , seeing it is granted by learned protestants , that there is no plain scripture for infant baptism . instead of which paragraph it may safely be inserted , that the infants of christians should be devoted to god by prayer and blessing , which may be justified by the law of nature , and specially by the words of christ , mat. . . . the article not necessary to be imposed as an article of the christian faith , seeing that book of consecration of archbishops , bishops , ordering of priests and deacons , is not of divine authority ; and it must needs be more safe to refer the business of consecrating , or ordaining christ's ministers ( of what rank soever ) to the rules given in the holy scripture . and hence we do further conceive , it is very needful that those severe sentences of excommunication contain'd in the book of canons and constitutions ecclesiastical ( specially these two , contain'd in can. . & . ) be recalled . for seeing they themselves ( that composed the articles ) were but men , ( though pious men ) and therefore ( as themselves teach , art. . ) might possibly err , even in things pertaining to god. therefore ( as they further say ) things ordained by them , have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared , that they be taken out of the word of god. nor ought the church to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation , which is either against or besides the word of god , as they also teach , article . thus much of the articles . ii. concerning the visible church of christ . . as it is rightly acknowledged by christians generally , and particularly by the church of england , article . that the church of christ is a congregation of faithful men , in which the pure word of god is preached , and the sacraments duly administred according to christ's ordinance , in all those things , which of necessity are requisite to the same ; so it may be as truly observed that none be admitted members of this visible church , or mystical body of christ ; till they give evidence that they are faithful , at least by their personal profession of the faith of christ , and willingness to walk in newness of life , according to the principles or general rules of the christian religion , contain'd in the holy scriptures , the rule of faith. . and seeing it is the work of god through which man with the heart believeth unto righteousness , from which faith only can proceed that confession with the mouth which is to salvation ; that therefore it may be firmly agreed , that humane force or violence is not the means ordain'd of god to propagate the church of christ . but that preaching the gospel , and walking holily in charity towards all men , are the true and proper means to encrease the church , according to the will and commandment of the everlasting god , made known to all nations in that behalf . iii. concerning regeneration , and baptism . . that as conversion or regeneration is necessary to the christian-state of every sinner , so it may be joyntly held and professed that the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , is an ordinance of christ , and necessary to the admission of all men to the priviledges of his church : and that the things required of all that are to be baptized , are repentance , whereby they forsake sin , and faith , whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of god , made to them in that sacrament . . that as it is granted on all hands , that immersion in water agrees best with the word baptize , and was the primitive way of baptizing ; so this ordinance may therein be restored to its purity according to its primitive institution ; and that to this end , there may be baptisterions , or fit places to baptize in , appointed for the solemn performance of this ordinance . iv. concerning infants , or little-children . . that all infants of christians be solemnly devoted to christ by prayer and blessing , and that the ministers of christ be assistant in this work , not forbidding them this blessing , mat. . , . . that every minister of christ residing in any country-village be obliged , in consideration of convenient maintenance , to teach all the children in his precincts to read the holy scriptures , and to instruct them in the principles of the christian religion ( heb. . , . ) and that they may be baptized , when they shall profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . and that the like care be used in cities , and great towns , in such manner as may be most convenient . . concerning laying on of hands . . that the fourth principle of christ's doctrine ( called laying on of hands , ) be restored 〈◊〉 its due use and purity in the church ▪ namely , tha● when any converts are baptised , then praye●● with the laying on of hands , be speedily made t● god for them , that they may receive the promi●● of the spirit by faith , and that it may retain i● ancient titles , given it by the holy ghost , ( viz. laying on of hands , or a principle of the doctrine 〈◊〉 christ . . to the end this service of god be not neglecte● that it may be allowed , that all faithful oversee● of particular congregations , may perfor● this service upon the newly baptised ; speciall● in the absence of such a minister as has a mo●● general charge , be he called the angel , or messenger of the churches . and that care be take● that the christians who have not known th● principle of christ's doctrine , be deliberately instructed concerning it , before they be made comformable to it . . concerning publick prayers , and the manner 〈◊〉 singing the praises of god in the churches . an● of the removal of such ceremonies as 〈◊〉 not to edification . . seeing the prayers contain'd in holy scrip●ure ( and especially the lords prayer ) are suf●icient to direct the man of god in that duty of prayer in the church , that therefore the book of common prayer be not imposed , and that ●t may be in the liberty of the minister to pray ●n the church according to the ability which god hath given him , that so the spirit of prayer , as well as the order of it , may be preser●ed . . that it be joyntly agreed that singing the praises of god in psalms , hymns , and spiritual ●ongs , is a holy ordinance of god , and that ●he order and spirit of that duty be restored ▪ god assisting ) according to cor. . and other rules contain'd in the holy scripture . and that musical instruments , bowing to the altar , the ●ign of the cross , the surplice , or any other , unne●essary ceremony , be prudently removed out of ●he service of god in all churches . . concerning church-discipline . . that the exercise of discipline be restored in 〈◊〉 churches according to the scriptures , and 〈◊〉 doctrine of the church of england , fore●●cited in this epistle . . to the intent that no sinner be indulged in ●is iniquity for money , that it may not be p●r●itted that any officer concern'd in the execution of discipline , take any manner of fees o● the offenders , or any other person for them and that such ministers be entrusted with th● exercise of discipline , as are men of know integrity , holiness and self-denial . and th●● holy discipline be executed in or near the plac● where the offences are committed , accordin● to the order of the primitive churches . . concerning ordination , and preaching the word . . that the election and ordination of min●sters , of what rank soever , be restored ( wher●in it shall appear to have been neglected ) in 〈◊〉 most solemn manner that may be , accordi●● to the scriptures : and that such ministe●● among the baptized believers , as shall be fou●● to have been so elected and ordained , be ●●lowed to preach the gospel , to edifie the pe●ple , and to dispense the holy ordinances . . that the primitive liberty of prophesyi●● to edification , exhortation , and comfort , be 〈◊〉 stored to the church , i. e. as it shall please 〈◊〉 to give men the gift of teaching , exhorta●●on , &c. they may be permitted with prude●● to edifie the people by the modest exercise●● their gifts in the churches . . concerning the m●intenance of christ's ministers , and the relief of poor christiant . . that it be agreed , that the relief of the poor , 〈◊〉 that those who preach the gospel should 〈◊〉 of the gospel , are god's ordinances , and 〈◊〉 be performed with all faithfulness by all ●hristians according to their ability . but that 〈◊〉 methods for performance of them , are ●●ythes for the one , or assessment for the other , 〈◊〉 only jure humano , and that therefore the same ●●wer magistratical which gave being to these ●ethods , may lawfully alter the same to the ●tter when they please . . and that therefore it be further agreed and ●●clared , that the way asfign'd in holy scripture 〈◊〉 the support of christ's ministers , and the ●●lief of poor christians , is by a free contribu●●on , to be constantly upheld in the churches , ●●cording to every ones ability ; and the mo●●y so collected to be entrusted in the hands 〈◊〉 the deacons of the church , and by them to 〈◊〉 faithfully distributed as occasion requires . ●nd that therefore such as will stand to christ's ●●lowance , and for his name-sake minister the ●ospel freely to the gentiles , may be still had in ●eputation ; and sent forth by the church 〈◊〉 restore christianity where it is corrupted ; 〈◊〉 to plant the gospel where it is not known . . concerning separation . . it 's here propounded , as greatly necessary to a tru● christian state , that some effectual course be resolve● upon , to keep ( as far as may be consistent with trut● and charity ) a holy and just distinction , between thos● who lead wicked and scandalous lives , and them tha● live holily , according to the general rules of christianity , without respect of persons . . that this care be taken more especially concerning the ministery ; otherwise we shall still have multitudes of prophane and debauched men set up as leaders . and we see by experientce the people are too ready to follow their ill examples , and the consequence mus● needs be lamentable ; as it is written , they eat up th● sins of my people ; and set their heart on their iniquities , and there shall be like people like priest ; and 〈◊〉 will punish them for their wayes , and reward the● their doings . jer. . . ii. concerning the means to effect the vnity desired . . that it would please you , the bishops of the church of england , to petition the king's majesty , that it may be made lawful by an act of parliament , or by his royall permission , for a competent number of representatives of such dissenters , as have a mind to unite with the church of england , to meet in christian counsel with your selves , and to agree ( upon mature deliberation ) on such articles as may ( if god see i● good ) put a period to our present animosities and divisions . . that if these proposals do not hold agreement with the good old way of christianity , then we desire they may be rejected , and that you would be pl●ased to propose things which may be more effectual to procure the unity desired . for our record is on high , and we have also the testimony of our conscience , that in sim●licity , and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdom , but by ●he grace of god , we desire to have our conversation 〈◊〉 the gospel with you , and with all that love christ 〈◊〉 our nation . trusting in the lord , that the u●●ting of such in the truth in general , may effectually ●ove many to jealousie with themselves , who are now ●●tangled in error , or involved in prophaneness , that ●hey may be converted from the evil of their ways , and ●onsequently our nation to abound with all blessings , ●specially the blessing of the gospel of peace . for godliness hath the promise of the life that now is , and of that which is to come . finally , if these endeavours for christian concord with all that fear god , and work righteousness in this nation , be rejected , yet herein shall we have some peace and comfort , that we have made the best essay we could for brotherly concord with them : being also ●eriously desirous utterly to forget all the hard things which in time past we have suffered from our countrey-men . hoping that the sober protestant hath had good occasion by this time to observe , that god almighty hath pleaded the innocency of our principles and purpose , from the evils too frequently ▪ and most unjustly suggested against them ; and that therefore we may now with the greater freedom of speech , express our selves as in the premises , and conclude with the modest speech of augustine . this then is our desire , which we do alledge by these letters unto your reverence , first , if it may be that you would confer with our bishops peaceably and quie●ly , to the end that error be taken away from those in whom it shall be found , and not that men be taken away , nor punished , but gently corrected . but before we shut up this epistle it will be needful to answer two objections which may seem to be of 〈…〉 we have said . obj ▪ . it will be objected , that we ask or desir● many things , and grant but few . ans . . that we hope we have desired nothing bu● what is rational , according to the sound principles 〈◊〉 christianity ; and which will be profitable to the churc● of god , when granted . . we stand ready to hear what our friends of th● church of england , will require of us , to answer tho● kindnesses which we desire of them , and hope we shadeny them nothing which we may lawfully grant . . obj. that the alteration which we propose in t●● case of baptism , amounts to a renunciation of th●● christianity , and to begin anew to become christians ▪ ans . the church of england does not only retai● the substance of what truth ●he hath received concernin● baptism , by altering to the better ; but will indeed the be consistant with the truth of her own doctrine in the fi● paragraph of her th article , and her vulgar catechis● which she hath rather made void hitherto by the custo● of paedobaptism . . if we take the text act. . . according to t● exposition of the ancients , and divers modern writ● ( as that is indeed the native and clear sence of t● place ) it will then be a good president to the chur●● of england to alter the subject and manner of her ba●tism ; for here we see , these ephesians being not right instructed concerning the grounds of baptism , when th● were baptized unto john's baptism , are therefore ba●tized again , upon more perfect instruction ; yet 〈◊〉 they not renounce the least part of christianity , 〈◊〉 any truth which they had received concerning baptis● but did rather perfect that infirm baptism which th● had received . and it is a just presumption that the first baptism was more valid then paedobaptism , 〈◊〉 infants know nothing at all , either what they do , what is done to them , but oppose it what in them 〈◊〉 , whereas these at ephesus were disciples , ver . , ●uch as did know unto what they had been baptized , 〈◊〉 . , and yet are baptized again , because not duly in●ormed before concerning the grounds of baptism ; and ●his is written for our learning , when our case is like ●heirs . postscript . the reader may be confident , we are not without foresight , that our hearty desire and endeavour for truth ●nd peace , will be little regarded by many ; some will cen●ure us , others contemn us , and what we have here pro●osed . but be it so , yet we also hope some will consider what we ●ave offered ; and may it but give some light to a better ●nderstanding of the case depending , or move any whose ●ircumstances may render them more serviceable to promote truth and peace amongst dissenting christians , we shall ●e content to labour , and suffer reproach , because we trust 〈◊〉 the living god. since the precedent epistle was written , some of us have 〈◊〉 a sermon lately preached by dr. stillingfleet , on phil. ● . wherein he also endeavours for peace amongst dissening christians ; but there is one thing necessary ( which he ●oes not much meddle with ) and that is to shew , that the ●hurch he would have us to communicate with , is such for constitution and government as was that at philippi . ●hen he shall do this , he may be confident small faults ●●ll not keep us from her communion : and that she may 〈◊〉 such , is the unfeigned desire and eadeavour of the au●●ors of the precedent epistle . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * by truth in this place we intend chiefly what is needful to a true church-state , and an holy life . * cor . , . & . , , , . & . , . cor. . , . see also clem. ep. at large and it will fully appear . * this letter has been printed about years , and never yet contradicted by dr. barlow . see mr. tombes his praeface to the reader in the third part of his full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism . p. , . * mr. baxter tells us , many both papists and prela●ists , have maintain'd that infant baptism is not determined in scripture , but depends on the tradition of the church . def. princ. of love , p. . and dr. jer. taylor tells us , there is no prime tradition for infant baptism . see his disswas . from popery . * note , that the division at corinth was occasioned by laying aside the primitive institution of christ concerning the ministery , the ancient bishops or elders being thrust out , &c. and our divisions are occasioned by either the laying aside , or the not duly observing christ's ordinances touching the constitution and government of his church according to the primitive pattern . notes for div a -e see your church catechism . * and it is granted by learned protestants , that this clause of christ's descent into hell was not always in the th article of the creed , as the nicen creed , and divers others do witness . see mr. ross's abridgment of divinity , pag. . see mr. calvin instit . l. . chap. . sect. . out of whom this quotation is taken . aug. ep. . ad jan. & donat. the glory of a true church, and its discipline display'd wherein a true gospel-church is described : together with the power of the keys, and who are to be let in, and who to be shut out / by benjamin keach. keach, benjamin, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the glory of a true church, and its discipline display'd wherein a true gospel-church is described : together with the power of the keys, and who are to be let in, and who to be shut out / by benjamin keach. keach, benjamin, - . iv, - [i.e. ] p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church discipline -- early works to . baptists -- government. baptists -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the glory of a true church , and its discipline display'd . wherein a true gospel-church is described . together with the power of the keys , and who are to be let in , and who to be shut out . by benjamin keach . mat. . . whatsoever ye shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven ; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth , shall be loosed in heaven . london ; printed in the year . to the baptized churches , particularly to that under my care. my brethren , every house or building consisteth both of matter and form : and so doth the church of christ , or house of the living god. the matter or materials with which it is built are lively stones , ● . e. converted persons : also the matter and form must be according to the rule and pattern shewed in ●he mount , i mean christ's institution , and the apostolical churches constitution , and not after mens inventions . now some men , because the ty●ical church of the jews was na●ional , and took in their carnal seed ( as such ) therefore the same mat●er and form they would have under the gospel . but tho a church be rightly built in both these respects , i.e. of fit matter and right form , yet without a regular and orderly discipline , it will soon lose its beauty , and be polluted . many reverend divines of th● congregational way , have written most excellently ( it is true ) upon th●● subject , i mean on church-discipline ; but the books are so voluminou● that the poorer sort can't purchas● them , and many others have not tim● or learning enough to improve them to their profit ; and our brethren th● baptists have not written ( as i ca● gather ) on this subject by it self● therefore i have been earnestly desired by our members , and also by on● of our pastors , to write a small and plain tract concerning the rules 〈◊〉 the discipline of a gospel-church that all men may not only know our faith , but see our order in this cas● also . true , this ( tho plain ) is bi● short , but may be it may provoke som● other person to do it more fully . certainly , ignorance of the rules of discipline causes no small trouble and disorders in our churches ; and if this may be a prevention , or prove profit able to any , let god have the glory , and i have my end : who am , yours aug. ●● ▪ . benj. keach . the glory of a gospel-church , and the true orderly discipline thereof explain'd . concerning a true and orderly gospel-church . before there can be any orderly discipline among a christian assembly , they must be orderly and regularly constituted into a church-state , according to the institution of christ in the gospel . . a church of christ , according to the gospel-institution , is a congregation of godly christians , who as a stated-assembly ( being first baptized upon the profession of faith ) do by mutual agreement and consent give themselves up to the lord , and one to another , according to the will of god ; and do ordinarily meet together in one place , for the publick service and worship of god ; among whom the word of god and sacraments are duly administred , according to christ's institution . . the beauty and glory of which congregation doth consist in their being all converted persons , or lively stones ; being by the holy spirit , united to jesus christ the precious corner-stone , and only foundation of every christian , as well as of every particular congregation , and of the whole catholick church . . that every person before they are admitted members , in such a church so constituted , must declare to the church ( or to such with the pastor , that they shall appoint ) what god hath done for their souls , or their experiences of a saving work of grace upon their hearts ; and also the church should enquire after , and take full satisfaction concerning their holy lives , or good conversations . and when admitted members , before the church they must solemnly enter into a covenant , to walk in the fellowship of that particular congregation , and submit themselves to the care and discipline thereof , and to walk faithfully with god in all his holy ordinances , and there to be fed and have communion , and worship god there , when the church meets ( if possible ) and give themselves up to the watch and charge of the pastor and ministry thereof : the pastor then also signifying in the name of the church their acceptance of each person , and endeavour to take the care of them , and to watch over them in the lord , ( the members being first satisfied to receive them , and to have communion with them . ) and so the pastor to give them the right hand of fellowship of a church , or church organical . a church thus constituted ought forthwith to choose them a pastor , elder or elders , and deacons , ( we reading of no other officers , or offices abiding in the church ) and what kind of men they ought to be , and how qualified , is laid down by paul to timothy , and to titus . moreover , they are to take special care , that both bishops , overseers , or elders , as well as the deacons , have in some competent manner all those qualifications ; and after in a day of solemn prayer and fasting , that they have elected them , ( whether pastor , &c. or deacons ) and they accepting the office , must be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership ; being first prov'd , and found meet and fit persons for so sacred an office : therefore such are very disorderly churches who have no pastor or pastors ordained , they acting not according to the rule of the gospel , having something wanting . of the work of a pastor , bishop or overseer . . the work of a pastor is to preach the word of christ , or to feed the flock , and to administer all the ordinances of the gospel which belong to his sacred office , and to be faithful and laborious therein , studying to shew himself approved unto god , a work-man that needeth not be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth . he is a steward of the mysteries of god , therefore ought to be a man of good understanding and experience , being sound in the faith , and one that is acquainted with the mysteries of the gospel : because he is to feed the people with knowledg and vnderstanding . he must be faithful and skilful to declare the mind of god , and diligent therein , also to preach in season and out of season ; god having committed unto him the ministry of reconciliation , a most choice and sacred trust. what interest hath god greater in the world which he hath committed unto men than this ? moreover , he must make known the whole counsel of god to the people . . a pastor is to visit his flock , to know their state , and to watch over them , to support the weak , and to strengthen the feeble-minded , and succour the tempted , and to reprove them that are unruly . . to pray for them at all times , and with them also when sent for , and desired , and as opportunity serves ; and to sympathize with them in every state and condition , with all love and compassion . . and to shew them in all respects , as near as he can , a good example in conversation , charity , faith and purity ; that his ministry may be the more acceptable to all , and the name of god be glorified , and religion delivered from reproach . . he must see he carries it to all with all impartiality , not preferring the rich above the poor , nor lord it over . god's heritage , nor assume any greater power than god hath given him ; but to shew a humble and meek spirit , nay to be clothed with humility . the office and work of deacons . the work of deacons is to serve tables , viz. to see to provide for the lord's table , the minister's table , and the poor's table ( . ) they should provide bread and wine for the lord's table . ( . ) see that every member contributes to the maintenance of the ministry , according to their ability , and their own voluntary subscription or obligation . ( . ) that each member do give weekly to the poor , as god has blessed him . ( . ) also visit the poor , and know their condition as much as in them lies ; that none , especially the aged widows , be neglected . of the duty of church-members to their pastor . st . 't is the duty of every member to pray for their pastor and teachers . brethren , pray for us , that the word of the lord may run and be glorified . again , saith paul , praying also for us , that god would open unto us a door of utterance , to speak the mystery of christ. prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto god for him . they that neglect this duty seem not to care either for their minister , or their own souls , or whether sinners be converted , and the church edified or not . they pray for their daily bread , and will they not pray to have the bread of life plentifully broken to them ? motives to this . . ministers work is great : who is sufficient for these things ? . the opposition is not small which is made against them . . god's loud call is ( as well as ministers themselves ) for the saints continual prayers and supplication for them . . their weakness and temptations are many . . the increase and edification of the church depends upon the success of their ministry . . if they fall or miscarry , god is greatly dishonoured , and his ways and people reproached . dly . they ought to shew a reverential estimation of them , being christ's ambassadors , also called rulers , angels , &c. they that honour them , and receive them , honour and receive jesus christ. esteem them very highly in love for their work sake . again , he saith , let the elders that rule well , be accounted worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in word and doctrine : that is , as i conceive , such that are most laborious . dly . 't is their duty to submit themselves unto them , that is , in all their exhortations , good counsels and reproofs ; and when they call to any extraordinary duty , as prayer , fasting , or days of thanksgiving , if they see no just cause why such days should not be kept , they ought to obey their pastor or elder , as in other cases also . obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves . thly . it is their duty to take care to vindicate them from the unjust charges of evil men , or tongue of infamy , and not to take up a reproach against them by report , nor to grieve their spirits , or weaken their hands . thly . 't is the duty of members to go to them when under trouble or temptations . thly . it is their duty to provide a comfortable maintenance for them and their families , sutable to their state and condition . let him that is taught in the word , communicate to him that teacheth , in all good things . who goeth a warfare at his own charge ? who planteth a vineyard , and eateth not of the fruit thereof ? &c. even so hath the lord ordained , that they that preach the gospel , should live of the gospel . if we have sown unto you spiritual things , is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things ? they should minister to them chearfully with all readiness of mind . ministers are not to ask for their bread , but to receive it honourably . the ministers maintenance , tho it is not by tythes , &c. as under the law , yet they have now as just a right to a comfortable maintenance as they had then , the equity of the duty is the same : our saviour , saith dr. owen , and the apostles plead it from grounds of equity and justice ; and all kind of laws and rules of righteousness among men of all sorts calls for it . thly . it is their duty to adhere to them , and abide by them in all their trials and persecutions for the word . ye were not ashamed of me in my bonds , &c. thly . dr. owen adds another duty of the members to their pastor , viz. to agree to come together upon his appointment : when they were come , and had gathered the church together , &c. query , are there no ruling elders besides the pastor ? answ. there might be such in the primitive apostolical church , but we see no ground to believe it an abiding office to continue in the church , but was only temporary . . because we have none of the qualifications of such elders mention'd , or how to be chosen . . because we read not particularly what their work and business is , or how distinct from preaching elders ; tho we see not but the church may ( if she sees meet ) choose some able and discreet brethren to be helps in government : we have the qualifications of bishops and deacons directly laid down , and how to be chosen , and their work declared , but of no other office or officers in the church , but these only . quest. may an elder of one church if called , warrantably administer all ordinances to another ? answ. no surely ; for we find no warrant for any such practice , he being only ordained pastor or elder of that particular church that chose him , &c. and hath no right or authority to administer as an elder in any other where he is not so much as a member . quest. may a church call out a teacher that is no ordained elder to administer all ordinances to them ? ans. you may as well ask , may a church act disorderly ? why were ministers to be ordained , if others unordained might warrantably do all their work ? if therefore they have no person fitly qualified for that office , they must look out from abroad for one that is . yet ( as we say ) necessity has no law ; provided therefore they can't do either , it is better their teacher be called to do it , than that the church should be without their food , and church-ordinances neglected ; yet let all churches take care to organize themselves , and not through covetousness , or neglect of duty , rest incompleat churches , and so under sin. god is the god of order , and not of confusion , in all the churches of the saints . and how severely did god deal of old with such that meddled with the priests work and office , who were not of the priesthood , nor called by him to administer in holy things ! of the reception of members . quest. what is the order of receiving members into the church , that were no members any where before ? answ. . the person must give an account of his faith ; and of the work of grace upon his soul before the church ; and also a strict enquiry must be made about his life and conversation : but if through bashfulness the party cannot speak before the congregation , the elder and two or three more persons may receive an account of his or her faith , and report it to the church . but if full satisfaction by the testimony of good and credible persons is not given of the party's life and conversation , he must be put by until satisfaction is obtained in that respect . moreover , when the majority are satisfied , and yet one or two persons are not , the church and elder will do well to wait a little time , and endeavour to satisfy such persons , especially if the reasons of their dissent seem weighty . quest. what is to be done when a person offers himself for communion from a church that is corrupt , or erroneous in principles ? answ. . the church ought to take an account of his faith in all fundamental points , and of the work of grace upon his heart . . and if satisfied , then to send also to that corrupt people , to know whether they have any thing or not against his life and conversation : if satisfied in both these respects , the church may receive him . quest. to whom is it members ●oin themselves ? is it to the elder , or to the church ? answ. they are joined to the whole community of the church , being incorporated as members thereof , and thereto abide , tho the pastor be removed by death . the power of the keys , with church — discipline , and members duties one to another . . we judg it necessary that a day monthly be appointed particularly for discipline , and not to manage such affairs on the lord's-day , which should be spent ●n the publick worship of god , of ● different nature : besides , such ●hings may ( on the account of discipline ) come before the church which may not be expedient to be ●eard on the lord's-day , lest it ●isturb the spirits of any members , and hinder their meditation ●n the word which they have ●ewly heard : tho in small congregations perhaps a day in two or three months may be sufficient . . the power of the keys , or to receive in and shut out of the congregation , is committed unto the church : the political power of christ , saith dr. chauncy , is in the church , whereby it is exercised in the name of christ , having all lawful rule and government within it self , which he thus proves , viz. . the church essential is the first subject of the keys . . they must of necessity to their preservation , purge themselves from all pernicious members . . they have power to organize themselves with officers . yet i humbly conceive i may add , that the concurrence of the presbytery is needful hereunto . . if need be that they call an officer from without , or one of another church , they must first admit him a member , that they may ordain their officer from among themselves . . they have power to reject a scandalous pastor from office and membership . ' this power of christ is exerted as committed to them by the hands of the elder appointed by christ , the due management whereof is in and with the church to be his care and trust , as a steward , whereof he is accountable to christ and the church , not lording it over god's heritage . and that the power of the keys is in the church , appears to me from mat. . if he will not hear the church ; it is not said , if he will not hear the elder , or elders . as also that of the apostle , in directing the church to cast out the incestuous person , he doth not give this counsel to the elder or elders of the church , but to the church ; so he commands the church to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly . purge out the old leaven , that you may be a new lump . of church-censures . now as to church-censures i understand but two besides suspension , viz. ( . ) withdrawing from a member that walks disorderly . ( . ) casting out , o● excommunicating such that are e●ther guilty of notorious or scanda●lous crimes , of heresy , &c. o● of contemning the authority o● the church . briefly to each of these . . suspension is to be when'● member falls under sin , and th● church wants time fully to hea● the matter , and so can't withdraw from him , or cast him out . . if any member walks disorderly , tho not guilty of gross scandalous sins , he or she , as soon as it is taken notice of , ought to be admonished , and endeavours to be used to bring him to repentance : for we hear that there are some which walk disorderly , not working at all , but are busy-bodies . such as meddle with matters that concern them not , it may be ( instead of following their trade and business ) they go about from one member's house to another , telling or carrying of tales and stories of this brother , or of that brother or sister , which perhaps may be true , or perhaps false , and may be too to the reproach or scandal of some member or members , which , if so , it is back-biting ; and that is so notorious a crime , that without repentance they shall not ascend god's holy hill. back-biting is a diminishing our neighbours , or brother's good name , either by denying him his due praise , or by saying any thing to his charge falsely or irregularly , or without sufficient cause or evidence , thus our annotators . but this of disorderly walking does not amount to such a crime , but evils not so notorious ; now them ●●at are such , we command and exhort by our lord jesus christ , that with quietness they work , and eat their own bread. they must be admonished . . an admonition is a faithful endeavour to convict a person of a fault , both as to matter of fact and circumstance ; and this admonition must be given first , if it be private , by that brother that knows or has knowledg of the fault or evil of the person offending , whether the elder , or member ; for any private brother ought to admonish such with all care and faithfulness before he proceeds farther . but if it be publick , th● church ought to send for the offender , and the pastor must admonish him before all . . but if after all due endeavours used he is not reclaimed , bu● continues a disorderly person , the church must withdraw from him . now we command you brethren , is the name of our lord jesus christ , that you withdraw from every b●●ther that walketh disorderly , and not after the traditions he received from us . this is not a delivering up to satan , excommunicating of dismembring the person ; for this sort are still to be owned as members , tho disorderly ones : the church must note him ▪ so as not to have communion or company with him in that sense ; yet court him not as an enemy , but exhort him as a brother : if any man obey not our word , note that man. it appears that such who refuse to adhere to what the pastor commands and exhorts to , in the name of christ , are to be deemed disorderly persons , as such are who meet ●ot with the church when assembled together to worship god , or ●hat neglect private or family prayer , or neglect their attendance on the lord's-supper , or to contribute to the necessary charges of the church , or suffer any evils unreproved in their children ; all such may be lookt upon disorderly walkers , and ought to be proceeded against according to this rule , or divulge the private resolves of the church , as well as in many like cases . of private offences of one brother against another . . as touching private offences , the rule mat. . is to be observed , only this by the way must be premised , viz. if but one brother or two have the knowledg of some members crime , yet if it be publickly known to the world , and the name of god be reproached , it being an immoral act , 〈◊〉 private brother is not to proceed with such an offender , according to mat. . but forthwith to brin● it to the church , that the public● scandal may be taken off . . but if it be a private offenc● or injury done to a brother 〈◊〉 sister in particular , and not bei●● a notorious scandalous sin , tha● brother must not mention it to one soul , either within , or without the church , until he hath proceeded according to the rule . ( . ) he must tell his brother his fault . moreover , if thy brother shall trespass against thee , go and tell him his fault betwixt thee and him alone ; if he shall hear thee , thou hast gained thy brother . thou must labour in love and all affections to convince him o● his fault ; but if he will not hea● thee , ( . ) thou must take one or two more , but be sure see they are discreet persons , and such that ar● most likely to gain upon him ; and they with thee are to labour with all wisdom to bring him to the sense of his fault : 't is not iust to speak to him , as if that were enough ; no , no , but to take all due pains , and to strive to convince him , that so the matter may be issued , and the church not troubled with it : but if he will not hear thee , take one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established . . but if he will not hear them after all due means and admonitions used , then it must be brought to the church ; and if he will not hear the church , he must be cast out : the elder is to put the question , whether the offending brother be in their judgments incorrigible , and refuseth to hear the church ; which passing in the affirmative by the vote of the congregation , or the majority of the brethren by the lifting up of their hands , or by their silence ; the pastor after calling upon god , and opening the nature of the offence , and the justness of their proceedings , in the name and by the authority of christ , pronounces the sentence of e● communication to this effect . that a. b. being guilty of great iniquity , and not manifesting ●●feigned repentance , but refusing to hear the church , i do in the name , and by the authority of christ committed unto me as pastor of this his church , pronounce and declare that he is to be , and is hereby excommunicated , excluded or cast out of the congregation , and no longer to be owned a brother , or a member of this church ; and this for the destruction of the flesh , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus . and this we believe is the substance of that which the apostle calls a delivering up to satan , he being cast into the world , which is called the kingdom of satan , where he rules and reigns . the delivery unto satan ( saith dr. chauncy ) signifies only the solemn exclusion of a person from the communion of the church , the visible kingdom of christ , and disinfranchizing him , or divesting him of all visible right to church privileges , casting him into the kingdom of the world , where the prince of darkness rules in the children of disobedience . and this being done , he is to be esteemed to be no better than an heathen man , or publican , or as an evil person , and not to have so much as intimate civil communion withal . of scandalous persons guilty of gross acts of immorality . if any member fall into any gross acts of sin , as swearing , lying , drunkenness , fornication , covetousness , extortion , or the like , and it is known and publickly spread abroad to the great scandal and reproach of religion , and of the holy name of god , his church , and people ; the said offender so charged , the church must send one or two brethren to him to come before the congregation : if he will not come , but doth slight and contemn the authority of the church , that will bring farther guilt upon him , for which offence he incurs the censure before - mentioned but if he doth appear , his charge is to be laid before him , and the witnesses called ; and after he ha● made his defence , and said all he hath to say , and the congregation finds him guilty , then the same censure is to pass upon him , to the end he may be brought to unfeigned repentance , and the name of god cleared ; and some time must be taken to make it appear that he hath true repentance , by the reformation of his life and holy walking afterwards , before he be received again , and the censure of the church in a solemn manner be taken off . dr. chauncy puts this question , quest. how is a church to proceed in case of open and notorious scandals ? the answer is , ' the matter of fact , as such , being beyond all question ; the church is to proceed immediately to censure , to vindicate the honour of christ and his church , and to manifest to the world their just indignation against such notorious offenders , and wait for a well-grounded and tryed evidence of his true repentance under that ordinance of christ which is appointed to that end . observe , it is the opinion of the doctor , that tho the person be penitent , yet because his sin is open and scandalous , he ought to be cast out to vindicate the honour of christ and the church , as part of his just punishment ( that being one reason of the ordinance of excommunication ) as well as to bring the person to thorow repentance ; and we are of his mind . paul takes no notice in the case of the incestuous person of his immediate repentance ; or if he repent not , then , &c. but says he , deliver such a one to satan , &c. saith the lord , if her father had but spit in her face , should she not be ashamed seven days ? let her be shut out from the camp seven day : ( speaking of miriam ) and after that let her be received in again . of dealing with hereticks and blasphemers . as touching hereticks or heresy , the same censure , when they are convicted , ought to pass against them ; heresy is commonly restrained to signify any perverse opinion or error in a fundamental point of religion , as to deny the being of god , or the deity of christ , or his satisfaction , and justification alone by his righteousness , or to deny the resurrection of the body , or eternal judgment , or the like . yet our annotators say , the word signifies the same thing with schism and divisions ; which if so , such that are guilty of schism or divisions in the church , ought to be excommunicated also . heresies are called damnable by the apostle peter ; without repentance such cannot be saved , as bring in damnable heresies , denying the lord that bought them . two things render a man an heretick according to the common signification of the word . . an error in matters of faith , fundamental or essential to salvation . . stubbornness and contumacy in holding and maintaining it . a man that is an heretick , after the first and second admonition reject . now that this rejection is all one with excommunication , appears by what paul speaks , tim. . . of whom is hymeneus and alexander , whom i have delivered unto satan , that they may learn not to blaspheme . their heresy , or blasphemy was in saying the resurrection was past . some would have none be counted an heretick but he who is convicted and condemned so to be in his own conscience , mistaking paul's words , knowing that he that is such , is subverted , being condemned of himself . he may be condemned of himself , tho not for his heresy , yet for his spending his time about questions , and strife of words , to the disquieting the peace of the church ; or tho not condemned of himself directly , yet indirectly ; according to the purport of his own notion , or what he grants about the point in debate , &c. else the apostle refers to some notable and notorious self-condemned heretick . it is a great question , whether hymeneus and alexander we●● condemned in their own consciences , about that heresy charged upon them , and yet were delivered up to satan . however the rule is plain , respecting any that are subverted , and resolutely maintain any heretical notion , i. e. after he hath been twice ( or oftner ) admonished , that is , after all due means used , and pains taken with him , to convince him of his abominable error ; and yet if he remains obstinate , he must be delivered up to satan ; that is , the righteous censure of the church must pass upon him , as in the case of other notorious crimes . heresy is a work of the flesh : and hence some conceive such ought to be punished by the civil magistrate . quest. what is an admonition ? answ. it is a faithful endeavour to convict a person of a fault both as to matter of fact , and his duty thereupon , charging it on his conscience in the name of the lord jesus with all wisdom and authority . quest. what is a church admonition ? answ. when an offending brother rejecting private admonition by one , or by two or three persons ; the complaint being brought to the church by the elder , the offending member is rebuked and exhorted in the name of the lord jesus to due repentance ; and if convicted , and he repents , the church forgives him , otherwise casts him out , as i before shewed . quest. may a church admit a member of another congregation to have communion with them , without an orderly receiving him as a member ? answ. if the person is well known by some of the church , and that he is an orderly member of 〈◊〉 church of the same faith , he being occasionally cast among them ▪ they may admit him to transie●● communion for that time ; but i● he abides in that town or city remote to the church to whom he belongs , he ought to have his regular dismission , and so be delivered up to the care and watch of the church where he desires to communicate . quest. if an excommunicated person hath obtained of god true repentance , and desires to be restored to the church , what is the manner of his reception ? answ. upon his serious , solemn and publick acknowledgment thereof before the church , and due satisfaction according to the nature of his offence being given , the elder solemnly proceeds and declares in the name of the lord jesus , that the sentence which a.b. was laid under ( upon his unfeigned repentance ) is taken off , and that he is received again a as member , &c. to the praise and glory of god. q. how ought a pastor to be ●●●lt withal , if he to the knowledge of the church , or any mem●ers thereof , walketh disorderly , ●nd unworthily of his sacred of●ice , and membership ? take the answer of another author here . answ. ' those members , to whom this is manifestly known , ought to go to him privately , and unknown to any others , ( and with the spirit of meekness , in great humility ) lay his evil before him , and intreat him as a father , and not rebuke him as there equal , much less as their inferiour ; and if they gain upon him , then to receive him into their former affection and esteem , for ever hiding it from all others . but if after all tender intreaties , he prove refractory and obstinate , then to bring him before the church , and there to deal with him ; they having two or three witnesses in the face of the church , to testify matter of fact against him to their personal knowledge . . but before he be dealt with they must appoint one from among themselves , qualifyd for the work●● a pastor , to execute the church censure against him , &c. yet n● doubt , the church may suspend him from his communion , & exercisin● of his office presently , upon hi● being fully convicted . but seeing in the multitude of counsel there i● safety , sure no church would so proceed without the advice of the presbytery , or of a sister - church at least . q. suppose a member should think himself oppressed by the church ; or should be unjustly dealt with ; either withdrawn from , or excommunicated , has he no relief left him ? answ. we believe he hath relief ; and also , that there is no church infallible , but may e●● in some points of faith , as wel● as in discipline . and the way proposed , and agreed to , in a general assembly , held in london , . of the elders , ministers , and messengers of our churches , we approve of , which is this ; viz. the grieved or injured person may make his application to a sister ▪ church for communion ; and that church may send some brethren in their names , to that congregation that have dealt with him , and they to see if they can possibly restore him to his place ; but if they cannot , then to report the matter charged , with the proofs , to the church that sent them : and if that congregation shall , after a full information , &c. be perswaded the person was not orderly dealt with , they may receive him into their communion . of such that cause divisions ; or vnduely separate themselves from the church . this i find is generally asserted by all congregational divines , or worthy men , i. e. that no person hath power to dismember himself : i. e. he cannot , without great sin , translate himself from one church to another ; but ought to have a dismission from that church where he is a member : provided that church is orderly constituted , nothing being wanting as to any essential of salvation ; or of church-communion : but if not , yet he ought to indeavour to get his orderly di●mission . nor is every small differenc● in some points of religion , ( o● notions of little moment , ) an● grounds for him to desire his dismission . that he cannot , nor ought no● to translate himself , see what 〈◊〉 reverend writer saith : he cannot , saith he , for many reasons : . it is not decent , much le● an orderly going away ; but very unmannerly , and a kind o● running away . . such a departure is not approved of in families , or civi● societies . . it destroys the relation o● pastor and people : for wha● may be done by one individua● person , may be done by all . . what liberty in this kin● belongs to the sheep , belongs t● the shepherd ; much more he ma● then also leave his flock at h● pleasure , without giving notice o● reason thereof to the church . . it is breaking covenant wit● christ , and with the congregation , and therefore a great immorality ; he being under obligation to abide stedfastly with the church ; i. e. till the church judge he hath a lawful call to go to another congregation . . it 's a schism : for if there be any such thing in the world , it 's of particular societies . . it is a despising the government of the church . . it is a particular member's assuming to himself the use of the keys ; or rather stealing of them . . there is as much reason persons should come into a church when they please , without asking consent , as depart when they please . . it is very evil and unkind in another church , to receive such an one , as not doing as they would , or should be dealt with . . such practices can issue in nothing else than the breach and confusion of all particular churches ; and make them like parishes . . such departures cannot be pleaded for in the least , but upon the notion of a catholick visible church , wherein all members and officers are run into one organized church , which will , and must introduce , a co-ordinate ( if not a subordinate ) pastoral government , by combination of elders , over all the churches ; and therefore by synods and classes . . it is like a leak in a ship , which , if not speedily stopped , will sink at last . . it tends to anarchy , putting an arbitrary power in ev'ry member . . it breaks all bonds of love , and raiseth the greatest animosities between bretheren and churches . . it is a great argument of some guilt lying-on the party . thus the dr. again he saith , it is no more in the just power of a particular member to dissolve his church-relation , than in a man to kill himself : but by his said withdrawment he doth schismatically rend himself from his communion , and so separate himself sinfully . ★ quest. what is the just act of the church , that cloathes this irregular separation , with the formality as it were of an excomcommunication . he answers . ( calling ) this a mixt excommunication i. e. originally proceeding from , and consists in , the act of the brother himself , and is the formality of his offence ; upon which proceeds the just and unviolable act of the church . the judgment of the church publickly declared by the elder of the congregation ; as the dr. words it ; viz. that a. b. having so and so irregularly and sinfully withdrawn himself from the communion of the congregation , we do now adjudge him a non-member , and one that is not to communicate with the church , in the special ordinances of communion , till due satisfaction is given by him . yet we believe , as the dr's opinion is , that a church may , ( if they find the case to be warranted by the word of god ; or as it may be circumstanced ) give a dismission to a member , when insisted on , to another regular church , tho not in every case of small offence , or dissent in some small points of different notions , or from prejudice ; for , that may tend soon to dissolve any church : for what church is it , where every member is of one mind in every particular case and thing about notions of religion ? and such that make divisions , and cause schisms , or discord among brethren , to disturb the peace of the church , if they cannot be reclaimed , must be marked , and dealt with as great offenders : it being one of those things that god hates , and is an abomination to him . quest. what is a full and lawful dismission of a member to another church , upon his removing his habitation , or on other warranted cases . answ. vve answer a letter testimonial , or recommendation of the person ; and if he intends to abide there wholly , to give him up to that communion , and fellowship , to be watched over in the lord. of disorders , or causes of discords , and how to be prevented , corrected , and removed . i. one cause of discord is , through the ignorance in some members of the rules of discipline , and right government ; particularly when that rule in matth. . is not followed . but one person ●●kes up an offence against another , and speaks , of it to this or that person , before he hath , told the brother offending , of it ; which is a paspable sin , and a direct violation of christ's holy precept : and such must , as offenders themselves , be in a gospel way dealt with . to prevent this , the discipline , of the church should be taught ; and the members informed of their duties . ii another thing that causes trouble and disorder in a church , is want of love , and tender affections to one another ; as also not having a full sight and sense of the great evil of breaking the bonds of peace , and vnity : o that all would lay this abominable evil to heart , how base a thing it is to break the peace of a private family , or neighbourhood ; but much more sinful to disturb the peace of the church of the living god , and break the bonds of the vnity thereof . behold , how good , and how pleasant it is , for brethren to dwell together in vnity ! but , o how ugly and hateful is the contrary ! iii. another disorderly practice is this , when one member or another knows of some sinful act , or evils done by one or more members , and they conceal it ; or do not act according to the rule ; pretending they would not be lookt upon as contentious persons : but hereby they may become guilty of other mens sins , and also suffer the name of god , and the church , to lye under reproach , and all thro their neglect . this is a great iniquity . iv. when an elder , or church shall know that some persons are scandalous in their lives , or hereretical in judgment , and yet shall bear or connive with them . v. when members take liberty to hear at other places , when the church is assembled to worship god : this is nothing less than a breaking their covenant with the church , and may soon dissolve any church : for by the same rule , one may take that liberty , another ; nay , every member may . moreover , it casts a contempt upon the ministery of the church , and tends to cause such who are hearers to draw off , and to be disaffected with the doctrine taught in the church , ( they knowing these dissenters do belong unto it . ) i exhort therefore , in the name of christ , this may be prevented : and any of you that know who they are , that take this liberty , pray discover them to the church . we lay no restraint upon our members from hearing such , who are sound in the faith at other times . vi. the liberty that some take to hear men that are corrupt in their judgments ; and so take in unsound notions , and also strive to distil them into the minds of others , as if they were of great importance . alas , how many are corrupted in these days , with arminianism , socinianism , and what not ! this causes great trouble and disorder . vii . when one church shall receive a member or members of another congregation without their consent or knowledge : nay such that are disorderly and may be loose livers , or cast out for immorality ; or persons filled with prejudice without cause . this is enough to make men atheists , or contemn all church authority , and religion : for hath not one regular church as great authority from christ as another . viii . another disorder is , when members are received without the general consent of the church ; or before good satisfaction is taken of their godly lives , and conversations : or when a church is too remiss in the reception of her members . ix . another disorder is , when a church shall receive a charge against a member , ( it being an offence between brother and brother ) before an orderly proceed has been made by the offended person . x. when judgment passes with partiality ; some are connived at , out of favour or affection : levi was not to know his father or mother in judgment . xi . when members do not constantly and early attend our publick assemblies , and the worship of god on the lord's-day especially , but are remiss in that matter : this is a great evil. xii . when part of a church shall meet together as dissatisfied , to consult church-matters , without the knowledge or consent of the church , or pastor : this is disorderly , and tends to division ; and such should be marked . xiii . another thing that tends to disquiet the peace of the church is , when there are any undue heats of spirit , or passion shewed in the pastor , or others , in managing the discipline of the church . have we not found by experience the sad effect of this ? therefore things must be always managed with coolness , and sweetness of spirit , and moderation ; every brother having liberty to speak his mind , and not to be interrupted , until he has done ; nor above one speak at once . xiv . when one brother or more dissents in the sentiments of their minds from the church , in any matters circumstantial ; either in repect of faith , practice , or discipline , and will not submit to the majority , but raise feuds ; nay , will rend themselves from the church , rather than consent . i quaery , what reason , or ground , hath any man to refuse communion with a church that christ hath not left , but hath communion with ? xv. when any member shall divulge , or make known to persons , not of the congregation , nor being concerned in those matters what is done in church-meetings , the church in this respect ( as well as in others ) is to be as a garden inclosed , a spring shut up , a fountain sealed . this oft times occasions great grief , and the disorderly person should be detected . is it not a shame to any of a private family , to divulge the secrets of the family ? but far greater shame do these expose themselves unto . xvi . another disorderly practice is this ; viz. when a member shall suggest , and seem ●o insinuate into the minds of other members some evil against their pastor , yet will not declare what it is ; and may only be evil surmisings , & out of prejudice ; and yet refuses to acquaint the pastor with what it is : this is very abominable , and a palpable violation of the rule of the gospel , and duty of members to their minister . such a person ought to be severely rebuk'd , and if he confess not his evils , and manifesteth unfeigned repentance , to be dealt with farther . moreover , it is a great evil in another to hear such base ▪ insinuations , and neither rebuke the accuser , and so discharge his duty , nor take two or three more to bring the person to repentance . if he deal thus by a private brother , it is a great evil , but far worse to an elder , whose name and honour , ought with all care and justice , to be kept up , as being more sacred . xvii . another disorderly practice is , ( which causes much trouble ) when the publick charges of a church are not equally born ; but some too much burdened , when others do but little or nothing . and also , when every one does not contribute to the poor , as god has blessed them , on every lord's day , or first day of the week , as he hath commanded . xviii . another disorder is this ▪ when members refuse to communicate with the church at the lord's table , because some person , or persons , they think are guilty of evil , and yet they have not proceeded with them according to rule : these either excommunicate the church , or themselves , or those persons at least , they censure unwarrantably . i beseech you for christ's sake , that this may never be any more among you : you ought not to deal thus with them ; or refuse your communion , ( tho faulty ) until the church has dismember'd , or withdrawn from them ; or at least suspended them . xix . when one member , shall believe , or receive a report against another , before he knows the truth of the matter . xx. when an accusation is brought against an elder , contrary to the rule , which ought not be without two or three witnesses , as to the matter of fact. xxi . when the word of god is not carefully attended upon , on week , or lecture-days , by the members generally ; tho the said meeting being appointed by the whole church . xxii . vvhen days of prayer and fasting , and of publick thanksgiving , or when days of disciplining are not generally attended upon . lastly , vvhen gifted brethren are not duely encouraged : first privately to exercise their gifts ; and being in time approved , called forth to preach or exercise in the church : and when encouragment is not given to bestow learning also upon them , for their better accomplishment . what will become of the churches in time to come , if this be not prevented with speed ? what tends to the glory and beauty of a true gospel-church . i. that which primarily tends to the glory of a church is the foundation on which it is built , which is jesus christ. now this is a blessed and glorious fou●dation . i. in respect of god the father , who laid this foundation in his eternal purpose , counsel , and decree ; behold i lay in sion ; and this is as the result of his infinite wisdom , love , and mercy to his elect. ii. in respect had unto christ himself , who is this foundation . . he is a suitable foundation . . in respect to the glory of god in all his attributes . ly . in respect to our good ; he answering all our wants , who are united to him , or built upon him . . in respect of the preciousness of christ , as a foundation ; a stone ; a precious stone . . in respect to the durableness of it i. e. a tryed stone ; a sure foundation . brethren , a foundation of a house must of necessity be laid ; no house can be built without a good foundation , that will stand firm , and unmovable ; it is the strongest part of the building , and it beareth all the weight of the whole superstructure : so doth jesus christ. iii. the beauty and glory of a true church , consists in the true and regular , or right constitution of it ; nothing being wanting that is essential to it , upon this account . iv. it consisteth in the excellency , glory , and suitableness of the materials 't is built with , answering to the foundation ; all precious stones , lively stones ; all regenerated persons . v. in that all the stones be well hewed and squared ; all made fit for the building , before laid in . vvere it thus , there would not be so great a noise of the hammer and ax , in church discipline , as indeed there is . it was not thus in the type , i mean in solomon's temple . vi. it 's beauty and glory consisteth in that all the stones being not only united by the spirit , to christ the foundation , but also to one another in sincere love and affection . in whom all the building , fitly framed together , groweth up unto an holy temple in the lord. vii . it consisteth in the holiness and purity of the lives and conversations of all the members : be ye holy , for i am holy . holiness becomes thy house , o god , for ever . viii . it consisteth in that sweet union and concord that ought to be in the church ; all like the horse : in pharoah's chariot , drawing together : endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace . by this shall all men know ye are my disciples , if you love one another . ix . in their having the divine presence with them : or when the glory of god fills his temple . x. in keeping out all unsanctified , or unclean persons , or if they get in , to purge them out by a strict and holy discipline , or else it will soon loose it's beauty . xi . in that zeal and equality that should be shewed in all to keep up the honour , peace , and comfort of the church , and the ministery thereof . xii . in the administration of right discipline ; to see no neglect nor delaying of justice , thro carelesness , or partiality : ( . ) no ways partaking of other mens sins ; which may be done by conniving at it ; ( . ) by lessening or extenuating of it ( . ) by countenancing , or any ways incouraging any in sin. ( . ) by not restoring a brother , that confesses his sin when overtaken . ( . ) not bringing in a just charge against an offender , nor rebuking him ; and yet have communion with him . ly . not to wrest judgment , out of it's true and right channel : nor to inflict a greater censure than the law of christ requires on any . ly . timely to acquit , and discharge a penitent person . ly . not to do any thing on● of prejudice , but in love , and bowels , of affection ; and to do all in christ's name , or by his authority . xiii . to sympathize with the afflicted , succour the tempted , and relieving the poor and distressed : rejoicing with them that rejoice , and mourning with them that mourn . xiv . to speak evil of no man ; not only speaking no evil of their brethren , but of no man , to his hurt or injury , detracting from his worth and honour : see sirach , whether it be to friend or foe , talk not of other men's lives ; and if thou canst , without offence , reveal them not . we must not discourse his faults , unless in a gospel-way ; and that too , to amend the person , and not out of passion , or prejudice to expose him , but out of love to his soul. yet we may speak of the evils of others , ( . ) when called to do it , in a legal or gospel-way ; and it is a sin then to conceal his crime . ( . ) or when it is to prevent another , who is in danger to be infected by his company , or ill example . ( . ) or in our own just defence and vindication . moreover , consider the evil of reproaching of others . first as to the causes why some do it . i. one cause is from want of love : nay from malice ; and hatred . . from the baseness , ill nature , and cruelty of the accusers disposition . . 't is occasioned from that itch , of talking and medling in the affairs of other men. . or perhaps to raise their own esteem and honour , some degrade their brother ; which is abominable . consider it is theft , or robbery ; nay , and 't is worse than to rob a man of his goods , because thou takest away that which perhaps thou canst not restore again . moreover consider , that such who reproach others , lay themselves open thereby to reproach . . moreover know , he that receives , or hearkens to the scandal , is as guilty as the accuser ; he is like a person that receives stolen goods , and so is as bad as the thief . this being one of the grand and notorious evils of these days i speak the more to it . if you abominate this evil , and avoid it , you will shine in grace and vertue the more clearly . alas , in our days , some that would be thought to be great professers stick not to vilifie christ's ministers , even some of the best of men ; and are so full of malice , they care not what wrong they do to their brethren , nor to the truth it self , or interest of god , and so expose themselves to a lasting shame , and their spirit , and practice , to an abhorrance ; they are like cursed cham who discovered his fathers nakedness ; these persons violate all laws , both humane and divine . ly . when they bear one anothers burdens , and so fulfil the law of christ : and that you may do this ; consider where is that church in which there are no burdens to be born. [ motives thus to do . ] . consider what a burden jesus christ hath born for thee . . what a burden thou hast to bear of thine own . . mayst not thou in some things be a burden to thy brethren ? . wouldst thou not have others bear thy burden . . may not god cause thee to bear a more heavy burden ; because thou canst not bear thy brother's ? . 't is a fulfilling the law of love , nay the law of christ. xv. the glory and beauty of a congregation , is the more manifest , when the authority of the church , and the dignity of the pastoral office is maintained . how great was the evil of the gain-saying of corah ? the apostles speaks of some that are selfwilled , presumptious , who are not afraid to speak evil of dignities . god has put a glory and high dignity upon the church and in it's authority and power ; whom ye bind on earth shall be bound in heaven . moreover , the pastoral office , is an office of dignity ; they are called rulers , angels , fathers : for any therefore to cast contempt on the church , or pastor , is a great evil , and a reproach to christ , and tends to disorder and confusion . lastly , when holiness , righteousness , charity , humility , and all true piety is prest upon the consciences of every member , and appears in the minister : also that all strive to excell therein , with their uttermost care and diligences . the conclusion . know my brethren , that god loves the gates of sion more than all the dwelling places of jacob : therefore the publick worship of god ought to be preferred before private . . this supposeth there must be a visible church . . and that they frequently meet together to worship god. . that they have an orderly ministery and one ordained elder , at least , to administer all publick ordinances . . moreover , that all persons have free liberty to assemble with the church , and to partake of all ordinances , save those which peculiarly belong to the church ; as the lord's supper , holy discipline , and days of prayer and fasting . then the church of old separated themselves from all strangers . yet others may attend on all other publick ordinances with the church ; as publick prayer , reading , and preaching the word and in singing god's praises , as hath formerly been proved . may others my brethren , join in prayer with us , and not praise god with us ▪ but , o my brethren ! let me beseech you to shew your high value , and estimation for the publick worship of god. [ motives hereunto . ] . since god prefers it thus : or has so great esteem of his publick worship . . because he is said to dwell in sion ; it is his habitation for ever . the place , where his honour dwells . . here god is most glorified . in his temple every one speaks of his glory ; my praise shall be in the great congregation . . here is most of god's gracious presence ( as one observes it . ) . his effectual presence , in all places ; where i record my name , thither will i come ; and there will i bless thee . . here is more of his intimate presence : where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am i in the midst of them . he walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks . . here are the clearest manifestations of god's beauty , which made holy david desire to dwell there for ever . see the appearance of christ to the churches , rev , . cap. . . in that it is said , that those that should be saved , in the apostles days , god added unto the church . . here is most spiritual advantage to be got : here the dews of hermon fall , they descend upon the mountain of sion . here god commands the blessing , even life for evermore . i will abundantly bless her provision , and satisfie her poor with bread. here david's doubt was resolved . . here you received your first spiritual breath , or life , many souls are daily born to christ. that good which is most diffusive , is to be preferred ; but that good which most partake of , is most diffusive ; o magnifie the lord with me ! let us exalt his name together . live coals separated , soon die . . brethren ( as a worthy divine observes ) the church in her publick worship is the nearest resemblance of heaven , especially in singing god's praises . what esteem also had god's worthies of old , for god's publick vvorship ? my soul longeth , yea , even fainteth for the courts of the lord. how amiable are thy tabernacles , o lord of hosts ! . see how the promises of god run to sion , or to his church : he will bless thee out of sion . o let nothing discourage you in your waiting at the posts of christ's door : david desired rather to be a door-keeper in the house of god , than to dwell in the tents of wickedness . yet nevertheless do not neglect , for the lord's sake , private devotion ; viz. secret , and family-prayer : o pray to be fitted for publick worship ! come out of your closets to the church ? what signifies all you do in publick , if you are not such that keep up the worship of god in your own families ? o neglect not prayer , reading , and meditation ! and take care also to educate and catechise your children ; and live as men and women that are dead to this world : and walk for the lord's sake as becomes the gospel . see that zeal and knowledge go together ; a good conversation . and a good doctrine go together these two together , are better than one. brethren , he that makes the vvord of god his rule , in whatsoever he doth , and the glory of god his end in what he doth , shall have the spirit of god to be his strength . this is like solomon's three-fold cord ; that will be one , or it will be three ; it can't be two ; not can it be broken . the solemn covenant of the church of christ , meeting in white-street , at it's constitution ; june , . . we who desire to walk together in the fear of the lord , do , through the assistance of his holy spirit , profess our deep and serious humiliation for all our transgressions . and we do also solemnly , in the presence of god , of each other , in the sense of our own vnworthiness , give up our selves to the lord , in a church state according to the apostolical constitution that he may be our god , and we may be his people , through the everlasting covenant of his free grace , in which alone we hope to be accepted by him , through his blessed son jesus christ , whom we take to be our high priest , to justify and sanctify us , and our prophet to teach us ; and to subject to him as our law-giver , and the king of saints ; and to conform to all his holy laws and ordinances , for our growth , establishment , and consolation ; that we may be as a holy spouse unto him , and serve him in our generation , and wait for his second appearance , as our glorious bridegroom . being fully satisfied in the way o● church-communion , and the trut● of grace in some good measure upon one anothers spirits , we do solemnly join our selves together in a holy vnion and fellowship , humbly submitting to the discipline of the gospel , and all holy duties required of ● people in such a spiritual relation . . we do promise and ingage to walk in all holiness , godliness , humility , and brotherly love , as much as in us lieth to render our communion delightful to god , comfortable to our selves , and lovely to the res● of the lord's people . . we do promise to watch over each others conversations , and not to suffer sin upon one another , so far ● god shall discover it to us , or any ● us ; and to stir up one another to l●●● and good works ; to warn , rebuke , a●● admonish one another with meekness according to the rules left to us of christ in that behalf . . we do promise in an especial manner to pray for one another , and for the glory and increase of this church , and for the presence of god in it , and the pouring forth of his spirit on it , and his protection over it to his glory . . we do promise to bear one anothers burdens , to cleave to one another , and to have a fellow-feeling with one another , in all conditions both outward and inward , as god in his providence shall cast any of us into . we do promise to bear with one anothers weakeness , failings , and infirmities , with much tenderness , not discovering to any without the church , nor any within , unless according to christ's rule , and the order of the gospel provided in that case . . we do promise to strive together for the truths of the gospel , and purity of god's ways and ordinances , to avoid causes , and causers of division , endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; ephes. . we do promise to meet together on lord's days , and ●●●ther times , as the lord shall gi●● 〈◊〉 opportunities , to serve and glorify god in the 〈◊〉 his worship , to edify one 〈…〉 and to contrive the g●●● 〈…〉 church . . we do promise according to our ability ( or as god shall bless us with the good things of this world ) to communicate to our pastor of minister , god having ordained that they that preach the gospel should live of the gospel . ( and now can any thing lay a greater obligation upon the conscience , than this covenant , what then is the sin of such who violate it ? ) these and all other gospel-duties we humbly submit unto , promising and purposing to perform , not in our own strength , being consciou● of our own weakness , but in th● power , and strength of the blessed god , whose we are , and whom we desire to serve : to whom be glory now and for evermore . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e act. . , , , . act. . . act. . , , . eph. ● . , . and ● . , , . col. . , , . pet. . . act. . , . rom. . . heb. . , . rom. . , , . pet. . , , . eph. . , . col. . . psa. . . act. . , , , &c. , . pet. . . cor. . . jer. . . heb. . . pet. . , . of an organical church . tim. . , , , , , . tit. . , , , , , . tit. . . act. . . tim. . . notes for div a -e cor. . , . act. . . tim. . . cor. . , . tim. . jer. . . tim. . . cor. . act. . , . pro. . . thess. . . tim. . . jam. . . tim. . . pet. . . and . . notes for div a -e the deacons work. act. . , , , , , , , . acts . , , , . cor. . . acts . . notes for div a -e thess. ● . . heb. . . notes for div a -e cor. . . cor. . . tim. . , , . cor. . , . thess. . . tim. . . heb. . , . jer. . . zeph. . . cor. . , . gal. . . cor. . , . ver . . ver . . mat. . , . see dr. owen ' s eshod , p. , . tim. . , , . eshod , pag. . act. . . rom. . . tim. . tit. . , , . act. . , , . tit. . . cor. . . tim. . cor. . , . notes for div a -e of the reception of members into the church . psal. . . acts . , . joh. , . rom. . , . pet. . . cor. . . rom. . , . acts . , , , , . to whom members join themselves . act. . . & . , . notes for div a -e a monthly day to be appointed for discipline . the power of the keys committed to the church . acts . . thess. . , . dr. chauncy on the power of the keys , p. . cor. . , . thess. . , . cor. . . notes for div a -e of church-censures . thess. . , . psa. . , . thess. . . thess. . . disorderly members only to be withdrawn from . thess. . , . heb. . . notes for div a -e of private offences between brother and brother . mat. . . mat. . . dr. chauncy , p. . the sisters are not to vote in the church . the act of excommunication or church-censure . cor. . pag. . mat. . . notes for div a -e of scandalous crimes or evils . the church censure on notorious offenders is the same with that in mat. . pag. . . tim. . . act. . . jud. . . cor. . cor. . . numb . . . notes for div a -e of dealing with hereticks . see pool's annot. on cor. . . pet. . . who is an heretick . tit. . . tim. . , . what an admonition is . the manner of the reception of a communicate person . mat. . . cor. . , . tim. . how to proceed against a scandalous pastor . ● see not if they have none fitly qualified , but the church may cast him out , relief for a member unjustly dealt with . notes for div a -e the cause of disorders in the church . rom , , . heb , , , dr. chauncy pag. . phil. . . tit. . . the great danger of making a rent in a church . rom. . . acts . . cor. . , . . . . , , . heb. . . jude , . ☞ ★ jude . cor. . . & . . & . . heb. . . , . mixt excommunication . rom. . , . thess. . . , . jude . let none call the church a prison , since all do voluntarily covenant with it , and 't is dangerous to break christ's bonds . timo. . . thess. . . prov. . . of a let●er of re●ommenda●ion . rom . . . acts . . notes for div a -e mat. . . disorders corrected & removed . iohn . , , eph. . . heb. . . eph. . , . & cap. . . psal. . . jam. . . acts . . . levit. . . acts , . . pet. . . acts . . mat. . . psal. . . cant. . . mark . . cor. ● . romans . . tim. . . jude , . jam. . . . cant. . . rom. . . tim. . . zech. . . tim. . timo. . . cor. . . ● cor. . . math. . ier. . . tim. . . isa. . ● . acts , , . acts , , . ioel , ● . notes for div a -e what tends to the glory of a church of christ. cor. , . isa. . . isa. . . pet. , , . kings , . eph. . , , . pet , , , psalm . . cant. . . eph. . . exod. . . mat , , , cor. . , . . cor. . . tit. . . eccl. . . apoc. iohn . ● . gen. . . gal. . . gal. ● . ● . rom. . . iude , . numb . . , . pet. ● . rev. . . tim. . . act. , . psal. . . pet. . . notes for div a -e psal. . . neh. . . how should sinners else be converted , and the church increased . psal. . . psal. . . psal. . . exod. . . mat. . . rev. . . psal. . . acts . . psal. . . psal. . . psal. . . ● . psal. . . psal. . . psal. . , . isaiah . psal. . . isai. . . prov. . . psal. . . psal. . . mat. . . jer. . . eph. . . phil. . . eccl. . . . . . . notes for div a -e ezek. . , . cor. . . hos. . . cor. . . church-communion proved . exod. . . , . isa. . . psal. . . eph. . . eph. . . pet. . . psal. . . isa. . . luke . . . cor. . . tim. . . pet. ● . , . act. . . phil. . . ioh , , , and , , pet , , , lev. , , heb , , , , thess , , , , rom , , eph. . . iam. . . col , , . gal , , , heb , , , heb , , rom , , cor , , , iohn . , , gal , , thess , , , rom , , , eph , , , , iude , v , , gal , , , tit , , , , iohn v , , heb , , and , , mal , , , rom , , and , , 〈…〉 , ● cor , , , ● , , - , gal , , , st. paul's catechism, or, a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion, as recorded heb. ., , with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion, as previous, and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive relgion: containing also, the duties of children to their superiors, written chiefly for the instruction of young christians, children and servants in all christian families / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) st. paul's catechism, or, a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion, as recorded heb. ., , with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion, as previous, and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive relgion: containing also, the duties of children to their superiors, written chiefly for the instruction of young christians, children and servants in all christian families / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, - . p. [s.n.], london printed : . imperfect: stained, with some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- hebrews vi, - -- criticism, interpretation, etc. baptists -- catechisms. apologetics -- early works to . apologetics -- history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion st. pavl's catechism : or , a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion , as recorded heb. . , . with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion : as previous , and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive religion . containing also , the duties of children to their superiors . written chiefly for the instruction of young christians , children and servants in all christian families . by tho. grantham . john v. . i rejoiced greatly , that i found of thy children walking in truth , as we have received a commandment from the father . london , printed in the year , . to all parents and masters of christian families . grace be multiplied , &c. beloved in christ ; as you are expresly bound by gospel-rules , to do that which is right unto your servants , and to bring up your children in the nurture and admonition of the lord ; so i am very sensible , that the capacity of many well-meaning christians is very low , to methodize their instructions in this behalf . and having a desire to serve you in what i may ; i have here presented you with some brief rules ( from the good word of god , which is able , through faith and love , to make our children wise to salvation ) which , by the blessing of god , i have found to be useful in my own family . be exhorted to tender the salvation of all that are under your care , above all other considerations , lest their blood be required of you . teach them the fear of god betimes , with their duties towards their superiours in every state of life ; for this shall be a means to preserve them from many dangerous erros in these daies , and also adorn the gospel of god our saviour , to whose grace i comit you , and remain , your loving brother , t. grantham . the introduction . to children , and servants , concerning the knowledg of the true god. the question , whether there be any god ? is so wicked and absurd , that none but fools will admit the debate . for he that shall once say in his heart there is no god , the next thought in him may be , that he himself is god , seeing there is no creature known to us above man. the heavens , earth , and seas , do all serve him. but seeing he made not himself , nor any of these things ; it must be , that he that made man , and all things that are made , is above all , and to be obeyed in love above all , rev. . , . remember therefore your creator in the days of your youth , and dedicate the prime of your strength to his service . content your selves with such a knowledg of god , as is held forth to you in his holy word and mighty works , and as shall be wrought in you by the spirit of grace , as you adhere to him. the sum of that revelation which god hath made of himself , to us in his holy word , may briefly be comprehended in these ensuing particulars ; eac● 〈◊〉 which i have confirmed , by some of the most clea● testimonies , as they relate to these particulars respespectively . i desire you to read and search the scriptures , to see whether these things be so . i. that god is one , or there is but one only true and living god. deut. . . exod. . . cor. . , , . john . . who hath revealed himself in the gospel , by the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , mat. . . and these three are one , john . . isa . . . ii. that the essence or being of this god , is revealed by christ to be a spirit . god is a spirit , john . . cor. . . iii. that this god is eternal , without beginning , and without end , he abideth the same for ever . deut. . . psal . . , . isa . . . psal . . . isa . . . hab. . . iv. that god is omnipotent , he can do whatsoever he pleaseth ; there is no restraint to the almighty . exod. . . job , chap. , , , . psal . . . & . , . jer. . . v. that god is omniscient , or knoweth all things , none of our thoughts nor actions can be hidden from his sight , psal . . , to the end . isa . . . & . . prov. . . heb. . . vi. that god is holy , righteous , and true , he will judg the world in righteousness , and there is no unrighteousness in him. josh . . . sam. . . psal . . . dan. . . john . . zeph. . . rev. . . acts . . vii . that this god is very gracious and merciful , no cruelty is in him ; he delighteth in mercy . exod. . . psal . . . pet. . . isa . . . rom. . , . jam. . . tit. . . viii . that god is perfect without any weakness , having no dependance upon any , he only is perfect . isa . . , , , , , , . deut. . . jer. . . psal . . . james . . ix . that the place of god's residence is in heaven , yet not confin'd to place , but is present every where as he pleaseth . mat. . . isa . . ● . psal . . . king. . . psal . . , , . isa . . . psal . . . x. that nothing can be done without the permissive providence of god : yet many things are done contrary to his will. gen. . . & . . jer. . , , . levit. . , . john . . pet. . . mat. . . xi . it is unlawful to form any shape , image , or representation of almighty god ; no , not so much as in our minds or imaginations . deut. . , , , , , , , . exod. . . psal . . , . acts . . isa . . , , . rom. . . xii . that the compleat knowledg and enjoyment of this god , is not to be attained till after the glorious resurrection of the people of god ; then , and not till then , shall they know him fully . john . . cor. . , , , . john . , . mat. . . job . , , . this i say therefore , and testify in the lord , that ye henceforth walk not as other gentiles walk , in the vanity of their minds . having their vnderstanding darkned , being alienated from the life of god , through the ignorance that is in them , because of the blindness of their heart . who being past feeling , have given themselves over unto lasciviousness , to work all uncleanness witb greediness . but ye have not so learned christ , if so be you have heard him , and have been taught by him as the truth is in jesus . the lord give you understanding in all things . st. paul's catechism , &c. it may be convenient that this catechistical discourse be formed between the father as teacher , and the son as the learner ; and thus we proceed . son. sir , i desire to know the chief end for which i have a being in this world ? father . the chief end for which man had his being , was , that he might bear the image of his creator , to govern this world , gen. . , . and to live in obedience to his creator , gen. . . & . . in the enjoyment of all good things . s. did man answer this chief end of the almighty in his creation ? f. no , adam ( the man we speak of ) did break the covenant of his god , and brought himself and all his posterity under the sentence of death , and the curse or condemnation of the almighty . gen. . , , . rom. . . s. did god leave adam and his posterity in this condition , without any means of recovery ? f. the mercy of god did intervene or come in between adam's sin , and the sentence due to him for sin , gen. . . by which he was put into a state of recovery from his dreadful fall. s. did this favour of god extend it self to adam and all his posterity ? f. yes verily , whole adam sinned , and whole adam had this tender of mercy . for as the offence abounded towards all men to condemnation , so the benefit abounded towards all men to justification of life , rom. . . s. what was adam's duty now in relation to his creator ? f. to love his merciful lord , and to serve him , by obeying him in duties of religion , and to walk humbly with his god , mich. . . s. what is religion ? f. the word religion signifies , an holy tye , bond or covenant , by which all men stand obliged to love and serve almighty god , their creator and preserver . to you , o men , i call , and my voice is to the sons of adam , prov. . . he hath shewed thee , o adam ( or man ) what is good — to do justly , love mercy , and walk humbly with thy god , mich. . . s. was adam left in a capacity to do this after the fall ? f. by the free grace of god , he and all his posterity are left or put into a capacity to obey god , so as he will accept them , when and in what he requires their obedience , else they could not sin by not obeying him , rom. . , , , , . s. surely , if god almighty do indeed require the duties of religion of all men , then there is undoubtedly a possibility of salvation for all men , this gives me some hope . i beseech you therefore make this plain , that god requires the duties of religion of all men. f. . undoubtedly all men are concern'd in the duties of religion , as their chief business ; otherwise they should not much excel the beasts of the field . . that knowledg which man hath , or the reason which god hath given him , being only imployed about earthly things , would only make him the most excellent animal : and yet some animals , or sensitive creatures , would seem to outdo him in some things ; and particularly the hony-bee , both in the gathering of hony , and preserving of it ; and in the government she maintains in her common-wealth , to the due imitation whereof few monarchs could arrive , if any at all have done it . . whilst man may suppose himself the most excellent creature in the gift of invention , &c. yet when the admirable quickness of sense , agility of body , with the foreknowledg which is in many of them of times and seasons , and the necessary provisions which they make for themselves accordingly , without any to instruct or exhort them thereunto , is duly considered , it may much abate the pride of man , who indeed has learned much more of them , than they of him ; and yet they can and do learn many things of man also . s. i see plainly , without god to be our god , and religion to be our business , we are as the beasts of the field . i desire a further demonstration . f. if all men be not concern'd to mind the business of religion , with hope of the acceptance of god therein , they are exposed to as ill a condition as the devils , or fallen angels . for it 's certain , man is a very sinful creature as well as the fallen angels ; and if he must be irreligious too , ( as he must be so , if god require it not of him ) then god hath made him only a fit companion for the devils , of whom it is certain god requires no duties of religion . we see then , the chief , and indeed the only thing that is truly valuable in fallen man , above all creatures here below , and above the fallen angels , is this , that he is capable of the mercy and knowledg of god , and by the mercy of god made capable to serve god , in such a religious walking with god , and a dependance upon him as therein to please god , and to find acceptance with him . s. i desire to know what religion this is which god requires of all men ? f. the prophet micah tells us , it is to do justly , to love mercy , and to walk humbly with god. st. peter says , it is to fear god and work righteousness , acts . , . st. paul tells us , it is to glorify god , according to the knowledg or manifestation which men have of god , rom. . whether this be taken from the works of his hands , psalm . . , . rom. . . or from his more common or amazing providences , exod. . . john . , . or from the work of god's righteous law written in mens hearts , rom. . ● , . there shall be glory , honour , and peace , to every man that worketh good , to the jew first , and also to the gentile , for there is no respect of persons with god. for as many as have sinned without law , shall perish without law ; and as many as have sinned in the law , shall be judged by the law. and by a parity of reason , they that have sinned in the gospel , shall be judged by the gospel ; see jer. . , . s. it is true indeed , this is the sum or main body of true religion , but this is mentioned in the scripture ; how do's it appear that the nations know any thing of it who have not the scripture ? f. it appears from the very places which i have quoted , because the prophets and apostles here , do not speak of religion as then newly instituted , but as that which had been of long continuance , even in every nation . and the scripture further shews , that the way of god had been made known to all flesh in the old world , gen. . , . else they could not have corrupted it . this way of god was again renewed to noah , gen. . , , . for an everlasting religion to the whole world. all are bound to take notice of , and to depend upon the lord as a gracious god , and to do justly , love mercy , and walk humbly with their god. s. but can man please god , under any of these manifestations of himself , without an assistant ? f. no , he cannot , therefore god provided an assistant , the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , to take away the sin of the world , john . . rev. . . whom he placed as a mediator between himself and man , tim. . , , , . s. but how shall any man have benefit by this lamb of god , or this mediator , who have not the means to know him by his name , nor his offices ? f. . many who never had the means to know the mediator particularly and distinctly , must yet have salvation by him , or else none of the infant-race , dying such , could be saved . . all that know the lord to be such a god as do's exercise loving-kindness , judgment , and righteousness in the earth , do know this mediator virtually , and believing on the lord as such , do know him savingly , jer. . . psal . . . . all the common providences of god are given chiefly for this end , to direct men to seek the lord ; because it appears from st. paul , they have a capacity to feel after him , and to find him . for he is not far from every one of them , because in him they live , move , and have their being . . and as to their ignorance in things , which they had not particular and distinct means to know ; 't is expresly said , the lord winked at it ; that is , he graciously passed by their weakness , and would not exact the utmost farthing , acts . , , . see and consider job . , . . but when men grow presumptuous and unthankful , and give the honour of the incorruptible god to created things , or things of their own devising , they thus unmanning themselves , and forgetting that they are the off-spring of god , then , and not till then , do's god withdraw his love from them , and suffers them to be filled with their own ways , as is most clear , rom. , chapters , and also dan. . , , . s. i see it is not good for us to pride up our selves against the nations , which have not the gospel as we have . but it seems to be an argument that god loves us more than he loves them , because he gives us greater means of grace than he gives them . f. . behold , god is mighty , and despiseth not any . let this truth take place in thy heart , job . . and then admit the love of god to be much more to some than to all , yet it 's sufficient to all . . yet i must inform thee , that when we consider mankind as they are all the off-spring of god , and as he has appointed the bounds of their habitations , that you should seek the lord. then like as we may not conclude , that a good father do's therefore not love his youngest son , so well as he loves his eldest son , because he gives him but half so much of his estate , as he gives the eldest son. so neither may we conlude that god loves england , france , or italy , better then he loves america , because we have greater means of gospel-light than they . he that improves one talent well , shall be accepted as well as he that improves five . s. i am well satisfied in this enquiry , i see that god expects the duties of religion of all men , according to what light and knowledg he hath given them , in all ages and nations , and that through the mercy and justice of god , whoever worships god , and doth his will , according to the manifestation which he has given men of his will , shall be accepted of god. i pray now inform me concerning the true way of god's worship , or the true christian religion according to the gospel ; lest whilst we seem concern'd for others , we be found to neglect our own salvation . and , first , i defire to be instructed , whether the holy spirit , or the holy scripture , or the holy church , must be our guide in these soul-concernments ? f. there is no doubt but these three agree in one testimony : for the scriptures are the testimony of the other two : being indeed the inspirations of the holy spirit , and the prophets or ministers of the church of god , receive those inspirations , and gave them forth in writings , which writings are the holy scriptures . s. is this church always to be receiving and giving forth inspirations of this kind ? f. no , in no wise , for so every age might produce a new bible . wherefore that our rules might not be too burthensom , it pleased god , that but few of the things which jesus himself did , should be written , and that we believing according to the scripture might have life , john . . pet. . . that ye may be mindfull of the words which were spoken before by the prophets , and of the commandment of us the apostles of the lord and saviour . if any come unto you and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house . john v. . s. seeing some pretend to the infallible conduct of the holy spirit in whatsoever they decree in council ; and others think they preach by infallible inspiration . i desire to known how we may best make tryal of these spirits , to know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error ? f. we may know the spirit of truth by these rules . . the holy scriptures being long since confirmed , all true ministers of christ , who are led by the spirit of christ , will always magnify the authority of the scripture above what themselves deliver as personal ministers , though it be never so true . for so did christ himself magnify the holy scriptures , john . , , . and so did st. peter , pet. . , to the end . s. is it clear , that by the more sure word of prophesy , is meant the writings of the prophets ? f. yes , it is very clear by the very reading of the place , pet. . , , , , , . s. what is this dark place which this word of prophesy is said to shine in ? f. it may be well meant of the jewish church , which understood not the voice of their own prophets , which are read in their synagogues every sabbath day : or , it may be true of us , by how much we are slow of heart to understand and believe all that the prophets have spoken , luk. . . s. what is the day-star which is to arise in our hearts ? f. by a diligent attending upon the testimony of the prophets , god gives light to those that sincerely seek for it : ye shall know , if ye follow on to know , hosea . . and god gives his spirit to help our infirmity . s. i am satisfied in this exposition of the place . i pray proceed to further rules by which the true spirit may be known . f. . the spirit which is of god , does not speak of it self , john . . so as to contradict what christ hath said , but he takes of christ's words , and shews them to his people . it delivers no new ordinances , nor nulls , nor changes christ's old ones ; but magnifies christ as the law-giver , that was to teach us all things , john . . . the apostles by this spirit have left us the whole council of god , act . , . and by that doctrine they knew that to be the spirit of god which led to it , and that to be the spirit of error which dissented from it , john. . . s. i see there is no safety in adhering to my self , or any other , under pretence of having the infallible conduct , or inspiration of the spirit . i shall beg the influence of the spirit of grace to quicken my judgment and affection in the search of the holy scriptures , the most infallible records of god and his church . but yet i desire a little help , how i may best satisfy my self , or others , that the holy scriptures are the undoubted oracles of god ? f. to satisfy thy soul in this enquiry , thou hast god's own testimony , who every-where speaks to thee in them , by doctrine , and by miracles . if any deny the truth of those records , they only deprive themselves of the authority of all records that are extant in the world of former ages : for the truth of the divine scripture has the highest testimony of all other ; and if these fall , all must fall with them . . thou hast the testimony of all the prophets , and of the apostles , and above all , the testimony of christ and his angels , that the old testament is the scriptures of truth . . lay aside the new testament , and then no man can preach any thing of the gospel , respecting the birth , life , doctrine , miracles , death , resurrection , assension , or second coming of christ . . we have the testimony of the first churches , that these books are the undoubted oracles of god ; and if their testimony be not of credit , the testimony of the present church will signifie nothing . . these scriptures must either be of god , or of the devil . but who dare say they are of satan ? they are the most destructive of his kingdom , and designs , of any books whatsoever . s. these considerations must needs be satisfactory to all that pretend to be of the christian faith. i desire therefore to be instructed in the true christian religion , especially in such parts of it as are necessary to our walking with god in a church-way , that i may have fellowship with god and his people , in the orderly profession of the christian religion . f. in the name of god , then let us begin there , where our lord christ began to preach , and let us follow him whom our heavenly father hath given to be a witness to the people , for a leader , and for a commander to the people , isa . . . of the first principle of st. paul's catechism : or , repentance from dead works . son. i desire to know , what were the first things preached by christ and his apostles , and to be learned by their followers ? father . the first things which christ preached were repentance , and faith , as it is written , matth. . . mark . . whose heavenly doctrine is more fully set down , and gathered into six principles by st. paul. heb. . , . and thus declared . repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god ; of the doctrine of baptisms , and of laying on of hands : and of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgment . s. seeing these are the foundation-principles , how must i understand the apostle when he saith , learning the principles ? f. they are words respecting the order of discourse , and bear this sence ; that st. paul would leave at that time to speak further of these principles ; and go on to more perfect or higher mysteries , and so he ●roceeds to discourse of the excellency of christ's priesthood above the aaronical priesthood , chap. , &c. s. i confess , if we should otherwise leave these principles , we should leave god himself , for without faith and humiliation we cannot please god. but does not faith go before repentance ? f. we must distinguish of faith. there is the faith of mankind , who generally do believe there is a god , that will punish the wicked , and reward the just . this faith must go before repentance , heb. . . but the faith here spoken of , is the faith of actual justification ; and this faith must needs follow repentance , rom. . . and . . thus god is the justifier of him that believeth in jesus . impenitent sinners are so far from justification , that christ tells them , except they repent , they shall all perish , luke . , , , . s. i thank you for this distinction ; i see the necessity of repentance . pray shew me the true nature of repentance , and how i may obtain repentance unto life ; and whether it be the gift of god ? f. that repentance unto life is the gift god , is very clear , acts . . & . . it is a special mercy flowing from the goodness of god to all sinners , rom. . . for he might in justice have denied the riches of his grace to the rebellious , which yet he hath not , psalm . . acts . . thus god gives repentance , both graciously and preceptively . s. but does not god also give power , with his gracious precept , to repent ? f. that god gives repentance potentially , is true ; jer. . , . turn thou me , and i shall be turned : surely when i was turned , i repented . yet this power is not irresistible , but it is sufficient , either to effect repentance , or to leave the sinner without excuse , ezek. . . rom. . . compared with rom. . . christ was sent to turn every one of the jews from their iniquities ; and there was a sufficiency of power in the means which he used to do it . but yet they resisted the holy ghost , and the holy jesus , and were destroyed in their iniquities , acts . . & . . see mat. . . s. i see plainly we may not look for in irresistibl● power to convert us to god. f. the gospel , as it is the ministration of the spirit , is to us the power of god to salvation , as well as it was to the jews , rom. . , . s. i desire to know what are the parts of repentance unto life ? f. the parts of repentance unto life were principally three . . a thorow or due sense of sin , in the sinful nature of it . . a godly sorrow for our sins ; chiefly , because we have committed them against the will and commandment of that gracious god , by whose mercy and goodness we live and enjoy all good things . . it consists in a holy resolution and endeavour to forsake all sinful ways . s. pray explain the first part of repentance , by shewing me what sin is , that i may have a due sense of it ? f. the scripture tells us , that st. paul had not known sin but by the law , rom. . . and that by the law is the knowledg of sin , rom. . . and that sin is the transgression of the law , john . . and where no law is , there is no transgression . and that the substance and work of this law is so far revealed to all the world , that all the world is under it ; and that by the breach of god's law , every mouth shall be stopped , and all the world be found guilty before god , rom. . , , . s. i confess , if all the world be not under some law of god , they could not be guilty of sin against god. but my desire is , to know what law we are under , who have the holy scriptures amongst us ? f. we are under the law of god , as it is given to mankind universally , ( being of the gentile race ) that is , the principles of right reason , and the instructions of the book of creation , psal . . , , . rom. . . whereunto it has pleased god to add this great blessing , that we have the divine law , as contained in the holy scriptures , by which more excellent things are made known ; which are also explain'd and confirm'd to us by jesus christ in the new testament , whom we are commanded to hear in all things . and thus we are under the teachings of the law , both natural & divine . s. where shall we find the substance of the law , natural and divine , recommended and explained to us ? f. in the ten commandments , exod. . which are explained in our saviour's sermons on the mount , &c. mat. chap. , , . and comprised by him in the two great evangelical precepts ; that is , to love god above all ; and our neighbours as our selves , mat. . , , , . upon these two commands hang all the law and the prophets . s. how may a man know that he is guilty of the breach of these laws ? f. . by considering the quality of that love which we owe to god , and to our neighbour , respectively : for our love to god must be of the superlative or highest degree ; less than this he will not accept . . our love to our neighbour must be of the possitive degree , even as we love our selves ; and by how much we come short in these , by so much we sin and come short of the glory of god , or of glorifying him as god. s. what are the true demonstrations of love to god ? f. . when god is chiefly and most delightfully in our thoughts of all things whatsoever , psal . . . psal . . . when his word , and chiefly his commands , are not grievous but delightful to us , john . , , . . when sin is the object of our hatred , because it is contrary to the nature and will of god , psal . . . jude . rev. . . . when we hunger and thirst for the gracious , and for the glorious enjoyment of god , psal . . , . john . . s. what are the true demonstrations of love to my neighbour ? f. they are many , some are continual , and some are occasional ; and they flow from this spring . a hearty desire of their good , or constant prayer to god for them ; for this keeps our heart open in love towards them , not only to avoid all things that may do them harm , but also to pity and help them in their necessities , as we are able , both in things temporal and spiritual . this is that charity , without which the highest pretences to religion are nothing . s. by these brief rules , i perceive how greatly sin has prevailed against men generally , and against my self in particular , whilst we have followed the desires of the flesh , and of the mind , neglecting both god and our neighbour . what manner of repentance is that which you call the second part ? f. it is a godly sorrow , or sorrowing for sin after a godly sort , cor. . . and arises in the heart from this consideration ; that whilst a gracious god hath been following us with mercies , from day to day , we have consum'd these days and mercies in ignorance of god , and in sinful courses in the sight of god , and against heaven , luk. . . and the truly penitent , do often meet with david's experience , psal . . . & . , , . against thee , thee only have i sinned , and done this evil in thy sight . in the day of my trouble i sought the lord : my sore ran in the night , and ceased not : my soul refused to be comforted . i thought upon god , and was troubled : i complained , and my spirit was overwhelmed . i am so troubled i cannot speak . and in this conflict , the sinner will remember his sinful original , psal . . . s. is original sin cause of humiliation ? f. yes undoubtedly ; for all flesh was , and is defiled by it , ( christ only excepted , heb. . . ) and should have perished under it , had not christ , the lamb of god , been in god's decree slain from the foundation of the world , to take away this sin of the world in the condemning power of it , john . . rom. . . s. i would gladly know how to attain this godly sorrow , which worketh repentance unto salvation . f. . consider , in order thereunto , that the holy god hates those who presumptuously go on in their trespasses , psal . . , , . & . . . but if any say i have sinned , and perverted that which was right , and it profited me not ; he shall deliver his soul from going to the pit , job . , . . think often of the judgments of god against obdurate sinners , and of his mercy in sparing thee so long . and let his goodness and forbearance lead thee to repentance , rom. . . . pray much to almighty god to be thy help herein ; jer. . . turn thou me , and i shall be turned , for thou art the lord my god. s. may these directions be blessed to me , i shall then have my desire . but what mean you by the third part of repentance ? f. i mean , . a holy loathing and abhorring all sin , because it is of the devil , john . . and because god hates it , and because christ died for it , or because of it . . abstain from the act of sin , in desire , word , and deed , as much as possible ; jonah . . god saw their works , that they turned from their evil ways . break off thy sins by righteousness , dan. . . repent you therefore and be converted , acts . . this is to bring forth fruit meet for repentance . s. hath man any liberty of will , and any measure of power , thus to hate and forsake sin ? f. . by the bounty of god , man hath some liberty and power this way , he is not chained to his sin of necessity ; josh . . . chuse you this day whom you will serve . to day if you will hear his voice , harden not your hearts , heb. . , . mary hath chosen the good part , uk . . . . yet man's infirmity in the exercise of this liberty and power is so great , that he is not to depend upon this liberty and power , but upon the strength of god , in the use of them , hos . . . cor. . . s. i confess my self , and all men indispensably bound to repent , and turn to god. but i desire to know whether this repentance will justify the sinner , or how far it is available hereunto ? f. though a sinner humble himself , and repent in dust and ashes , as truly as job did , job . . yet is he not thereby justified , but only prepared to justification ; for remission of sin follows repentance , luke . . and is made ours , freely by the grace of god , through the redemption which is in christ jesus . for without shedding of blood there is no remission , heb. . . & . . rom. . . we must therefore in no wise place our justification in our repentance , for that were to place our justification from the guilt and condemning power of sin , in our duty , and not in christ jesus , which god forbid . s. i desire you therefore to shew me this great mystery of the gospel , which guides poor sinners to the true cause of justification , from the guilt and condemning nature of sin. f. that i will endeavour to do in our con●ideration of the second principle of christ's doctrine , to wit , of faith towards god , or towards our lord jesu● christ , heb. . . acts . . the second principle of st. paul's catechism : or , of faith towards god. son. i de●ire first to have a true definition of faith ; that is , i desire to know what faith is ? father . st. paul defines faith thus , heb. . . now faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen . it is also truly defined , of a firm belief of the truth of god as made known in the scriptures ; and particula●ly concerning his son jesus christ our lord , john . . john . , . s. i perceive that the main design of the holy scriptures , is to direct us to jesus christ ; i do therefore desire to know what record god hath given of his son ? f. this is the record which god hath given of his son ; that god hath given to us eternal life , and that this life is in his son. john . . with john . . and . . s. was the son of god ordained to procure the light of saving life to the whole world ? f. yes , god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth on him should not perish , but have everlasting life . and the reason why many shall not see eternal life , is , because they believe not on the name of the only begotten son of god , john . , , . s. but how can they be saved by christ who never heard of him ? f. christ is the lamb of god , slain in the design of god , to take away the sin of the world , john . . in whom god hath offered such means of light as to him seemed convenient , act. . , . that all might seek him , and be reconciled to him , cor. . , , . and according to the due use , or wilful abuse of his mercy so offered , you shall all be acquitted , or condemned , in the day when god shall judg the secrets of men according to the gospel , rom. . , , . now the gospel shews that god is not an hard master , he only expects improvement of what he gives , he will not reap where he hath not sown , cor. . . dying infants never heard of christ , yet they shall be saved , mat. . . s. by this i perceive all men are under the mercy of god , as well as under his justice : and that none shall therefore perish for want of mercy , but because they turn the grace of god into wantonness . shew me therefore what we , who have the holy scriptures , are bound to believe concerning god and jesus christ whom he hath sent. f. we are firmly to believe that god is , heb. . . and that there 's no other god but one , mark . , . this one god is made known to us by three denominations especially ; the father , the son , and the holy ghost . mat. . . john . . tim. . . john . . and that thou mayest know how this great mystery was understood by the ancient church , about years ago , i will here shew thee their confession of faith , published by a very great council of the christians in those daies , wherein were pastors of the church , who thus profess their faith. the nicene creed i believe in one god the almighty father , maker of heaven and earth , and of all things visible and invisible . and in one lord jesus christ , the only begotten son of god , begotten of the father before all worlds . god of god , light of light , very god of very god , begotten , not made , of one substance with the father , by whom all things were made . who for us men , and for our salvation descended from the heavens , and was incarnate of the virgin mary , and became man. crucified also for us under pontius pilate . suffered and was buried ; and rose again the third day according to the scriptures , and ascended into heaven , and sits at the right hand of god. and is to come again with glory to judg the living and the dead , and of whose kingdom there shall be no end . and in the holy spirit the quickening lord , who proceeds from the father and the son , and in like manner is adored and g●●rifyed with the fathe● and the son , and who spake by the prophets . and i believe one holy catholick and apostolical church . i confess one baptism f●r remission of sins . and i look for the resurr●ction of the dead . and the life in the world to come . s. i much reverence this ancient confession of faith , for it 's excellent brevity , and especially for the solidity of the matter . but i desire you to shew me what scripture-evidence we have for some things contained in the second article , where it says , the son of god was begotten before all worlds . f. in heb. . . the son of god is called the first-begotten : and vers . . 't is said , the worlds ( that is , all worlds ) were made by him ; and vers . . thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the works of thy hands , john . , , . is full evidence of the same thing . and colos . . . he is before all things , and by him all things consist . s. but how is it said , the son is god of god , light of light ? &c. f. . the same testimonies which prove he was god , and that he was before all things , proves that he was god of god : because there was but one god , nor as yet any other essence but god. the son w●s therefore begotten , not made , because all things were made by him which was made ; and sure he that made all things was not made himself . . in john. . . the son is expresly called , very god ; and seeing there is but one god , he must needs be very god of very god. . and for the same reason he is light of light ; for god is that light in whom is no darkness , ●ohn . ● ▪ and so is christ , john . , , , . see also rev. . ● ▪ heb. . . s. it seems the great council did not want scri●ture-evidence to confirm this great article o●●he pr●existence of the son of god. i pray explain the thi●d article , where the son of god is said to be incarnate of of the virgin mary by the holy ●●ost , and became man. f. it pleased the father almighty , that his son , who being in the form of god , and thought it not robbery to be equal with god , should take upon him the form of a servant , and be found in the habit of man , col. . , . and in this state , he that was above all angels , heb. . . was now made a little lower than the angels , for the suffering of death , heb. . . for he took not on him the nature of angels , but he took on him the seed of abraham , heb. . . and in this respect , both he that sanctifieth , and they that are sanctified , are all of one , [ that is , one flesh ] for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren . and as children are partakers of flesh and blood , he also himself likewise took part of the same , that by means of death he might destroy him that had the power of death , that is , the devil , heb. . s. this a great mystery indeed ; i desire to know how and when this was fulfilled or accomplished ? f. the lord christ was born of the virgin mary , in the time of augustus caesar , about the year of the world . and his birth was thus effected by the most high god. his power overshadowed the virgin , and by the holy ghost coming upon her , she conceived , and was with child , luk. . . mat. . . and at bethlehem she brought forth her son , and ( as the angel had commanded ) called his name jesus , which signifies a saviour , the same is called christ , mat. . . luk. . . as it was foretold by the prophets , isa . . . mich. . . s. do's any testimony appear in humane histories , respecting the time of the birth and death of our lord christ ? f. our faith must only rest upon the authority of the scriptures ; in these things nevertheless there is som● things remarkable found in the histories of those times . learn ( saith a learned writer ) the time according to the prophecy of daniel , when christ should co●e , is now exactly fulfilled . 〈◊〉 from the d year of darius longamanus , when the ki●●s commandment went forth , to bring the people to b●ild jerusalem , ezra . . . hag. . . to the beginning of alexander's monarchy , were years , according to the account of metasthenus the persian . from thence to the incarnation of christ was years by the judgment of josephus : and from christ's incarnation to his baptism , was about years , luke . . then count the prophecy of daniel . . after weeks ( a week containing years ) that is years , then shall the messiah be cut off , viz. two years and an half after his baptism . s. i understand that christ is the true messiah , of whom moses and the prophets did write , john . , . deut. . . isa . . . i desire therefore to know what i a● farther to believe concerning him , that i may be saved f. thou must with the heart believe unto righteousness , and with the mouth make confession unto salvation , rom. . . s. what do you mean by believing unto righteousness ? f. there is a two-fold righteousness , which true faith will lead thee unto . the one is imputative ; the other is practical . the first is called the righteousness of god , mat. . . or god's righteousness , rom. . . this righteousness is revealed by the gospel , rom. . , . it is a righteousness to us without the law ; and yet witnessed by the law and the prophets , rom. . ▪ it is the righteousness of christ , who is the lord our righteousness , isa . . , . christ made of god un●● us righteousness , cor. . . s. i desire to understand this more plainly . f. . god having made a righteous law , it must be fulfilled ; and none was able to do ●his but christ , and he did fulfil it in our behalf heb. . , , , , , . psal . . , , . and thus the rig●teousness of the law is fulfilled in the children of god , because christ's righteousness is made theirs through believing , rom. ▪ , . phil. . . and they are made the righteousness of god in him , cor. . . that is , a righteous people to god. . the justice of god cried against us for sin committed ; and sin must be purged by the blood of christ ; he bare our sins , that is , the punishment of our sins , in his own body on the tree , pet. . . and thus we are justified by his death , and saved by his life , rom. . , . he died for our sins , and rose again for our justification , rom. . . s. where do's god say , that righteousness is a thing imputed to man ? f. rom. . . david describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom god imputeth righteousness without works , saith the apostle . abraham being fully perswaded , that what god had promised , he was able to perform . it was imputed to him for righteousness . now it was not written for his sake alone , that it was imputed unto him . but for us also , to whom it shall be imputed , if we believe on him that raised up jesus christ from the dead , rom. . , , , . s. and is this wonderful grace held forth to all men in christ ? f. yes , the righteousness of god without the law is manifested , or published , being witnessed by the law and the prophets , even the righteousness of god , which is by faith of jesus christ vnto all , and upon all that believe : for there is n● difference . for all have sinned , and come short of the ●lory of god : being justified freely by his grace , through the ●edemption that is in christ jesus ; whom god hath set forth 〈◊〉 be a propitiation [ for our sins ; and not for ours only , bu● also for the sins of the whole world , john . . ] throug● faith in his blood ; to declare his righteousness for the re●ission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of god. to declare , i say , at this time his righteousness , that ●e might be just , and the justifier of him that believeth in je●us , rom. . , to . s. it appears plainly , that the righteousness of christ , in and by christ , is free for all ; but yet it is received by faith. but does god require all men to be●●eve this ? f. yes , christ with all his benefits was tendred to ●he jews ; but they being ignorant of god's righteousness , ●nd going about to establish their own righteousness , have not ●●bmitted themselves to the righteousness of god , rom. . , , ● . so they would not come to christ that they might ●ave life , john . . . all are commanded to believe the gospel , ( which ●eveals this righteousness of god as the main of it ) under pain of damnation , mark . , . all me● are therefore to believe that god has mercy , and grac● and glory in store for them all , tim. . , , . s. i desire you to give me the sum of the gospel 〈◊〉 few words . f. this gospel is briefly comprehended in this sa●ing ; christ died for our sins , and rose again for 〈◊〉 justification , cor. . , . which is further e●plained ; cor. . , , , . and the great hol●ness which it teacheth , is set down , with the glory co●sequent to it , tit. . , , , , . pet. . , ● ▪ s. did christ our lord die and rise again for all me● without exception ? f. yes , he did ; for , for this cause christ both die● , ro●● and revived , that he might be lord both of the dead a●d l●ving , rom. . . he gave himself a ransom for all , ● ti● . . he tasted death for every man , heb. . ● . 〈◊〉 bought them that deny him , and bring upon themselv●● 〈◊〉 destruction , pet. . . s. these things cannot be spoken against . but 〈◊〉 christ die as he was god , or as he was man only ▪ f. not as god ; for if god should die , nothi●● could live . man cannot kill the soul of man , muc● less the divine nature of christ ; our saviour was 〈◊〉 to death in the flesh , pet. . . he died through wea●ness , cor. . . he was made lower than the angel that he might suffer death , heb. . . it was sufficient that an holy man , perfectly jus● without sin , should die for the unjust , that he mig●● bring us to god. s. to strengthen my faith , i desire to know som● clear grounds or evidence that the holy spirit is god. f. . because he is called the eternal spirit , heb. ● . and is present in every place , psal . . . he is e●presly called god , act. . , , . . we are baptised into his name , mat. . but we are not to be baptised into the name of a created spirit . . the work of creation is ascribed to him , and he hath his procedure from the father and the son , and is one with them , gen. . , , . psal . . . john . . s. i am well satisfied , that the righteousness of faith is a grea● 〈◊〉 : i desire to learn the righteousness of practice● ▪ f. practical righteousness is a holy walking with god in obedience to all his commands , to the best of our k●owledg and ability , john . , , . for the gosp●● of the grace of god teacheth us to deny all vngodlyne●● and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , righteously , and g●dly on this present life , tit. . , . christians are ●●rictly obliged to observe all things whatsoever christ comm●●ded , ma● . . . for they are god's workmanship , 〈◊〉 in christ jesus unto good works , which god hath 〈◊〉 ordained , that they should walk in them , ephes . . ▪ christians are bo●●d to hear christ their great prophet ●n whatsoever 〈◊〉 shall say . nor are they his true friends , unless the● do ( to their best ) whatsoever he commands them , act. . . john . . s. will not faith save us without works ? f. altho we are not saved by works , yet we are not saved without works . for what doth it profit , if a man say , he hath faith , and have not works , can faith save him ? jam. . . as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also . s. what shall i do that i may work the work of god ? f. . this is the work of god , that you believe on him whom he hath sent , john . . this faith must be put into act , else it is not the work of faith with power , thes . . . gal. . . jam. . , . . true faith overcometh the world , to wit , 〈◊〉 lusts of the flesh , the lust of the eyes , and the prid● of life . for this is the victory which overcometh the world , even our faith , john. . , . and . , . this faith purifieth the heart in obeying the truth through the spirit , and leads to every good work , act. . . pet. . . philip. . , . colos ▪ 〈◊〉 . s. is this faith in the act , the gift of god , or the work of man ? f. with the heart man believeth , and it is man that worketh good , rom. . . rom. . . but the preparation of the heart in man to these things is of the lord , prov. . . cor. . . cor. . . isa . . . s. does god work this preparation in man's heart irresistibly ? f. in some special case it may be so , gen. . . but god ordinarily works upon the heart , or understandings of men , by his works , 〈◊〉 ▪ . . isa . ● . . and by his word , rom. . , , ▪ and by the motions of his spirit , ministerially and graciously , thes . . . against which men may ●nd often do , make resistance to their own destruction , psal . . . this whole psalm shews much of this to be too common , and so does act. . . s. i desire a short view of this excellent grace of faith. f. . it is an hearty and universal credence of the truth of god , as revealed or made known to man in the scriptures , or otherwise . luk. . . deut. . . rom. . , , , . . a cleaving to god and his truth , as made known to us , in sincere love , psalm . . thes . . , . thes . . . . a shewing the fruit of faith , by a ready obeying the truth , and suffering for it , when called thereunto , james . . . pet. . , . . an holy dependance upon god for the fulfilling all his promises , for his grace and help in this world , and for glory in the world to come , pet. . . heb. . , to the end , rom. . , , . s. i can say , in some measure , i believe , and pray , that god may help against my unbelief . what i pray , is the next principle which belongs to a beginning christian . f. the next principle is , the doctrine of baptisms . of which we shall treat briefly . of the third principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the doct●ine of baptisms . son. why is the word baptisms used in this place ? are there more baptisms than one pertaining to christians ? father . yes , there are three distinct baptisms pertaining to the christian man. the first is the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ; this was of divine original , it came from heaven , and was first administred by that great prophet and messenger of christ , john the baptist , mat. . . the second , is the pouring out of the spirit of promise ; and in the ordinary way of its reception , follows the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . act. . . & . . & . , . ephes . . . the third is the afflictions which attend christians for the gospel's-sake , luk. . . mat. . . s. how is it said there is but one baptism , seeing it's evident there are three ? f. that is a gross mistake . it is not said , ephes . . . there is but one baptism , 't is said , there is one ; and yet paul speaks of two of these baptisms in that very place , as vers . . there is one body and one spirit , as ye are called in one hope of your calling . and the ephesians had received both the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , in the name of the lord jesus ; and also the baptism of the spirit , afterward , as is undeniable , act. . , . so that paul should have spoken false if he had said there is but one baptism , and also must have contradicted himself in his epistle to the hebrews , where he speaks of baptisms in the plural number . s. i confess , the mistake of the quakers , and some others , is hereby discovered ; i see indeed a threefold baptism , i would learn them in every part : and there fore i desire to know what god requires of all that are to be baptised into christ ●ccording to his command . f. god requires the substance of the two foregoing principles , of all that are to be baptised with the baptism of repentance , for the remission of sins . repent , and be baptised every one of you , act. . . they that gladly received the word , were baptised , act. . . when they believed , &c. they were baptised , both men and women , act. . . in true baptism , we are dead with christ , buried with christ , and risen with christ , rom. . , to . colos . . , , . we are all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus ; for as many as have been baptised into christ , have put on christ , gal. . , . s. did our lord christ himself establish this practical baptism ? f. yes , he established it divers ways ; first , in that he would not enter upon his ministry till he was 〈…〉 john in jordan mat. . . & . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 managed the doctrine and practice of this baptism , more than john the baptist did , john . , . & . , . jesus made and baptised more disciples than john. s. how then is it said that jesus baptised not , but his disciples ? f. jesus made the people disciples by teaching them . to baptize them , was more convenient for his disciples or apostles , because they were to be baptised in his name ; kings do not execute their laws , because they are done in their name , 't is more fit to be done by their ministers . s. it is plain , that christ did propagate this holy ordinance in his personal ministry . did he establish it after his death also ? f. yes , in his perpetual commission he does particularly establish it , to continue as long as the gospel it self , mark . , . mat. . , . s. this is very clear ; but suppose a man have received the baptism of the spirit , may not he be excus'd as to this ordinance of baptism ? f. no sure ; the better god is to us , the more ready we should be to follow christ , who saith , thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness . sure no man can suppose he is more holy than christ . but to put the matter out of doubt , christ commands those that have received the holy ghost , to be baptised with water in his name , act. . , . s. i perceive no man may with safety neglect this ordinance ; i therefore desire to know what is the profit which attends the sincere obedience to god in this ordinance ? f. the same profit which thou mayest expect in thy sincere obedience to god in any other ordinance : that is , pardon of sin , and eternal life , is made sure ●o thee in god's way , ( if thou art faithful in what thou dost , as god requires thy faith and obedience ) ; for thus saith the lord , he that believeth , and is baptised , shall be saved , mark . . arise , why tarriest thou , and be baptised , and wash away thy sins , calling on the name of the lord jesus , act. . . the like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us , not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good consicience towards god , by the resurrection of christ from the dead . s. these are very high expressions ; are we not saved by christ only ? f. doubtless christ only is ordained of god to be the saviour of the world , tim. . . and especially of his body the church . and you are to know , that it 's christ who is held forth in baptism , which saveth ; even as it 's said , we are saved by preaching , that is , by christ held forth in preaching . s. may not a man have his place and priviledg in the church of christ without ●aptism ? f. no , that cannot be ●or if one man , then more may take the place , and assume the priviledges of members of the church without baptism , and then there may be a true church constituted without baptism . s. may not a company of believers form themselves into a church of christ , without baptism in water , upon profession of repentance and fa●th only ? f. no true church can be formed by man's device . there must be the rule of god's word to direct us , or nothing is done well in the forming a church . christ hath given express order to form his church by repentance , faith , and baptism , as we have shewed . if he has also given order to form churches without baptism , th●n he must needs be the author of confusion , which he is not . s. i confess , i find no order from christ to form or constitute a church without baptism ; i find the church founded by himself , to be constituted in the use of the baptism of repentance , for remission of sin. i believe this church , formed by christ at jerusalem , to be the mother-church , and that therefore her foundation-principles are necessary for the true constitution of all other churches . i now desire you to shew me the due form of baptism . f. the due form of baptism , is by dipping the repentant-believer into the water , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , mat. . . and hence it was , that john baptised in aenon near salem , because there was much water there , john . . and they were all baptised in the river of jordan , confessing their sins , mark . . s. was christ himself dipped in jordan by john baptist ? f. yes , it is granted by the learned , that mark . . is expressed for it , the greek being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which they confess to be , word for word in english , and was dipped of john into jordan . and 't is clear , when christ was baptised , he came up straight●●y out of the water , mat. . . which example alone should make all christians afraid to devise a form contrary to christ's own pattern , and his testimony also , who saith , thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness . s. but must the party baptised , be naked or cloathed when he goes down into the water ? f. he that is baptised , should be cloathed , because god hath required that all things in the church should be done decently and in order . and the party to be baptised , may as well be dipped in water with a convenient garment upon him as without . s. what ceremonies hath christ appointed to be used in baptism ? f. christ loved his church , and gave himself for it , that ●e might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of water through the word . there is no other ceremony by his appointment to be used in baptism . s. may not the church alter the subject of baptism , and change the manner of administration , as the papists ( and others ) have generally done ? f. no , the lord christ commands his apostles to teach all his people to observe all things whatsoever he commanded them , mat. . . they delivered that to the churches , which they received of the lord , cor. . . the church is commended for keeping the ordinances as they were delivered to them , cor. . . there was a curse followed them that changed god's ordinance , isa . . . s. i see it a duty incumbent upon all that will have due admission into the church of christ-militant , to be baptised with the baptism of repentance for remission of sins . i now desire to know the truth concerning the baptism of the spirit , so much claimed in these days , tho some deny that there is any such baptism now to be expected . f. that the gift of the holy ghost ( which is the baptism of the spirit ) is a right which pertains to the church , or to baptis'd believers in their successive generations , is evident , act. . , . it belongs to all that the lord our god shall call. if any man have not the spirit of christ , he is none of his , rom. . . because ye are sons , god hath sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts , crying , abba , father , gal. . . there is one body , and one spirit , even as ye are called in one hope of your calling , ephes . . . the love of god is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost , rom. . . now we have received , not the spirit of the world , but the spirit which is of god , that we might know the things which are freely given to us of god. s. are these things meant of the baptism of the spirit , or of some lower receivings of it ? f. these are the best part of the promise of the spirit , which whoso receive , are sealed thereby to the day of redemption , and are the earnest of our inheritance ; and are therefore most fitly called the baptism of the spirit , because the spirit receives in the nine fruits of it , gal. . , . transcends it's being received in the nine gifts of it , cor. . , , . the first are called the more excellent way of receiving the spirit , cor. . ult . i had rather have that one fruit of the spirit called love , then all the nine gifts of the spirit . s. but are not the gifts of the spirit ceas'd ? f. no such matter ! unless our unworthiness deprive us of them . are not these exhortations yet of force ? covet earnestly the best gifts . follow after charity , and desire spiritual gifts , and rather that ye may prophesy . covet to prophesy , and forbid not to speak with tongues . sure these exhortations inform us , that as the church hath need , she may lawfully ask these best gifts . but let her remember there is a better part of the promise of the spirit than the best of these gifts . s. i am satisfied the whole promise of the spirit pertains to the church , and that therefore the baptism of the spirit remains . i would know what ordinary way god hath assigned to wait upon him for so great a blessing ? f. indeed our receiving the promise of the spirit through faith , gal. . . in the sanctifying operations of it , is the next great blessing of the gospel , to our being justified by faith in the blood of christ . and for a more full answer to your enquiry , i refer you to what shall be said upon the fourth principle of the doctrine of christ . the fourth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the laying on of hands . son. seeing this principle is express'd in the singular number [ laying on of hands , not layings on of hands ] i desire to know what laying on of hands is here meant ? father . . it cannot be a violent laying on of hands [ as some prophanely imagine ] ; our saviour taught none to lay violent hands upon his people ; and yet the very act of laying on of hands here , is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . . the greek , is , epitheseos te chiron , which signifies a gentle putting on of hands . the word which signifies a violent handling , is another word , as in luk. . . epibalousin . but such is the great blindness of some , that they will not see a difference between a prophecy , as that is in luk. . . and a doctrine , as this is , heb. . . s. i am satisfied thus far , that it can be no violent act. i desire to hear the truth . f. it must be a service which concerns all christians equally , as they are babes in christ , because it is called milk for babes , heb. . , . a beginning principle , heb. . . and placed among those other five principles , which do equally concern all christians to know , as you are babes in christ . and for these reasons it cannot be laying on of hands for ordination , nor upon the sick. it must therefore be that religious service performed by the apostles , acts . . and . . tim. . . for the promised spirit , both gifts and fruits , as god pleas●d . s. but did not the apostles give the holy ghost , by putting on of their hands ? f. no , in no wise , god gave the spirit to those who did obey him , act. . . the apostles only prayed for this blessing , which they knew belonged to baptised believers as such , act. . . and . . and faithful pastors ought to teach babes in christ ; this principle , as it respects the promise of the spirit , and to pray for it on behalf of the disciples , both men and women , after the example of the apostles , act. . . else they cannot lay the whole of that foundation , heb. . , . nor teach babes in christ all their principles . s. was this practice of prayer , with laying on of hands , continued in the church of christ in the ages next after the apostles ? f. yes , it was religiously observed ; eusebius mentions it , as the ancient manner , viz. prayer , and laying on of hands , lib. . c. . and so does tertullian long before him , lib. de bapt. his words are , after we are come out of the laver of baptism , the hand is laid on by blessing , calling upon , and inviting the holy ghost . s. these things are very plain to such as are willing to be informed . i desire now to be informed , what is the reason why so very few do receive these principles , in the native purity and simplicity of them , and especially these two practical ones , baptism , and laying on of hands ? f. . one great reason is , because a false baptism , without repentance and faith , and dispensed in a man-pleasing way : and likewise an outwardly glorious and ceremonious bishoping , has obtruded upon very many , by which they are blinded , that they cannot , or prejudiced , that they will not see these truths , than which scarce any are more plain and easy to be seen . . another may be this , the wisdom of god knowing the great pride of man's heart , ordained these ordinances , to try them , whether they would be obedient to his commands , how low so ever , or whether they would contemn the very foot-steps of christ himself , the only son of god. the pharisees and lawyers led the way in this rebellion against god's counsel , luke . . and many follow them , rejecting the counsel of god , against all power in heaven and earth , matth. . , . being not baptised in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . s. i confess we have the foot-steps of christ most plain in the case of baptism ; but have we any thing from him to favour us in the laying on of hands with prayer for the promised spirit ? f. yes verily , we have as much from his own example herein , as the case could bear ; for jesus , as soon as he was baptised , prayed , and the heavens were opened , and the holy ghost descended in the bodily shape of a dove upon him ; and a voice came from heaven which said , this is my beloved son , in whom i am well-pleased . the things which from hence favour our cause in hand , are these . . christ did not ask this sealing and confirming spirit , till after he was baptised : but as soon as baptised , he prays , and receives the holy ghost . here is nothing wanting but the administrator , which could not be found among men ; for who durst pray for christ that he might receive the spirit ? i could object upon others , that in christ's baptism repentance was wanting . yet sure his baptism is very precedential to us , it coming as near us as the case would bear ; and so likewise he comes as near us in his waiting for the spirit after baptism as the case will bear . s. i desire to see the grounds of those two duties , baptism , and laying on of hands , in a few particulars . f. the grounds on which these duties may be asserted , and defended , are ; . the express command of christ , or , the express doctrine of christ , they being both principles of his doctrine . . christ's own example , or president , as far as the greatness and holiness of his person would bear it , to be exemplary in either . . the undoubted necessity of the chief blessings , annexed to the religious use of these services respectively . . sufficient example of many thousands of christians , men and women , at jerusalem and samaria , &c. submitting to these services at their principles . . no repeal of these services , or of either of them , since their institution in the church of christ . . the undeniable consent of antiquity for some hundreds of years down from the very dayes of the apostles . . the scriptureless , trifling , self-contradicting , and nonsensical objections , which hitherto have been brought against sacred baptism , or prayer , with the laying on of hands , for the ends for which they were at first observed . the fifth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the resurrection of the dead . son. what is the true definition of the resurrection of the dead , according to christian doctrine and faith ? father . the resurrection of the dead is an act of divine and almighty power , quickning dead bodies , and restoring them to a state of such perfection , as to have an eternal duration ; but does not necessarily infer the happiness of the dead , so raised , but with respect to the event of that trial which they then shall undergo . and therefore the resurrection is distinguished into two parts , by christ himself , john . , . marvel not at this , for the hour is coming , in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth ; they that have done good , to the resurection of life , and they that have done evil , to the resurrection of condemnation . s. shall the same body in respect of it's flesh and bones rise again ? f. it must either be the same flesh and bones , or nothing , seeing there is nothing else laid in the grave that may be called man. and this is the ancient faith of god's people , as appears in job . , . though after my skin , worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall i see god : whom i shall see for my self , and not another , though my reins be consumed in me . s. i confess this agrees with our saviour's words before mentioned , all that are in the graves , shall hear his voice and come forth . but does not christ speak mystically of the graves of sin ? f. no , he had spoken of those that are dead in sin before , vers . . the hour is coming , and now is , when the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god ; and they that hear shall live . this he speaks of the powerful preaching of the gospel to convert those that were dead in sin. then adds , marvel not at this , for the hour is coming , that all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth ; but some of these to condemnation , which respects the last judgment , undeniably . s. how then does the apostle say , that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god ? cor. . . f. . he explains himself in the next words ; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption ; he speaks of men in their sinful and mortal state ; they must be regenerate by the work of the spirit , and freed from mortality in the resurrection , or ( as the next verse shews ) partake of a change which is equivalent ; or else they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven . . it is certain our saviour was flesh and bones after he was risen from the dead , luk. . . yet , he entered into heaven it self , there to appear in the presence of god for us . heb. . . s. i confess it must follow , that if no flesh can enter into heaven , then christ's glorified body cannot be there , which doubtless it is . but have we sufficient testimony that our bodies shall put off mortality , and be glorified with his glorious body ? f. yes , for it is written , this mortal must put on immortality , and this corruption must put on incorruption , and so death shall be swallowed up in victory . and again , he shall change our vile body , that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body , according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself , phil. . . s. are there any examples , that any of the dead who had lain long in the graves was raised ? f. yes , there is a full instance of that , mat. . , . the graves were opened , and many bodies of the saints which slept , arose and came out of the graves , and appeared to many . now these saints doubtless had been long dead , for we read of no saints dying at jerusalem about the time of christ's suffering . s. are there any other examples to confirm this great article of our faith ? f. it pleased god to give an instance of his power , and of his will in this behalf , near the beginning of the world , in that he translated enoch that he should not see death , gen. . . heb. . . . god also took elijah the prophet up into heaven , without tasting of death , king. . , , . . elisha by the power of god raised a dead child to life , king. . , , . . by god's power a dead man was raised to life , at the touch of the bones of the prophet elisha , king. . . s. are there any examples of this kind in the new testament ? f. . our saviour raised a young man , as he was carried upon the bier to be buried , luk. . , , . . he raised also the daughter of jairus , mark . , , . . christ raised lazarus when he had been dead and buried , commanding the dead to come forth ; and though he was bound hand and foot , yet he came forth by the power of god , john . , . . st. peter raised tabitha to life , by the strength of christ , act. . , . . but the greatest instance of all is , the resurrection of christ himself , by which god hath given assurance to all men , that all men shall rise again , both the just and unjust , act. . . s. was this article of faith received by the prophets before the coming of christ ? f. the prophet david spake of the resurrection of the body of christ , psal . . . and of the hope of his own resurrection also . this was the hope of israel , act. . . & . . . the prophet isa hath these words ; thy dead men shall live , together with my dead body shall they arise : awake , and sing , ye that dwell in the dust , isa . . . augustine refers this to the resurrection . . daniel tells us , that many that sleep in the dust of the earth , shall awake , some to everlasting life , and some to everlasting shame and contempt , dan. . . . hosea . . as interpreted by the apostle , cor. . is very plain , i will ransom them from the power of the grave ; i will redeem them from death : o death , i will be thy plagues ; o grave , i will be thy destruction . s. these testimonies are very clear . i desire some further confirmation of this truth from the new testament . f. . for this i refer you to the serious reading of cor. . throughout ; where the apostle , by divers arguments , confirms this truth , and especially by the resurrection of christ , and the importance of the thing it self , making all religion insignificant , unless there be a resurrection from the dead . . i will here insert this excellent testimony to the thessalonians . i would not have you ignorant , brethren , concerning them which are asleep , that ye sorrow not , even as others which have no hope . for if we believe that jesus died , and rose a●ain ; then they also which sleep in jesus , shall god bring with 〈◊〉 . for this we say unto you by the word of the lord , 〈◊〉 we which are alive , and remain unto the coming of the lord , shall not prevent ( or hinder the resurrection of ) them that are asleep : for the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the arch-angel , and with the trump of god ; and the dead in christ shall rise first . then we which are alive , and remain , shall be caught up together with them in the clouds , to meet the lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the lord. thess . . s. i bless god for these clear testimonies . i desire now to be instructed concerning the eternal judgment . the sixth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the eternal judgment . father . the manner of christ's coming to judgment is thus described : then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven : and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn , and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with great glory . and he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet , and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds , from one end of heaven to another . mat. . , . s. this will be a terrible day ! who is this son of man ? f. this son of man is christ jesus ; for god 〈◊〉 se●d jesus , who before was preached unto you , act. . the same jesus which you have seen go up into heaven , sha●● so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven , acts . . behold , he cometh with clouds , and every eye shall see him , and they also who pierced him ; and all nations shall wail because of him , rev. . . s. why shall the nations wail because of him ? f. because , when the son of man shall come in his glory , and all the holy angels with him , then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory . and before him shall be gathered all nations , and he shall separate them one from another , as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats , mat. . , . s. to what end shall christ thus divide the nations ? f. to give to every man according as his work shall be . for he shall set the sheep on his right hand , and the goats on the left . then shall the king say to them on his right hand , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world : for i was hungry , and ye sed me , &c. then shall he say also unto them on his left hand , depart from me , ye cursed , into everlasting fire , prepared for the devil and his angels . for i was an hungry , and ye gave me no meat , mat. . , , , . s. this is a glorious and terrible description of the judgment of the world. i pray , by what records will christ judg the nations ? f. he shall especially proceed in judgment with all men , according to the gospel , that is , according to the means of grace which he gave them , rom. . , . for this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light , john . , . and yet more particularly , they that have sinned without law , shall perish without law ; and they that have sinned in the law , shall be judged by the law. and those that have the gospel , the word which christ hath spoken shall judg them at the last day . s. there are several books spoken of in rev. . . what are these books ? f. the books are metaphorical , and signify , . god's omniscience ; for he shall bring every work to judgment , with every secret thing , whether it be good or evil , eccles . . ult . . the consciences of men which then shall be awakened to condemn them , or acquit them , rom. . , . may here be called books . s. i desire to know what is meant by the book of life ? and whether any that were once written in it , may be blotted out of it ? f. the time when this book shall be opened , will best resolve the first question . but thus much we know , that the promise and covenant of life made with adam , renewed with noah and with abraham , and confirmed by christ , is , to us , the book of life , out of which men may blot themselves , or render themselves unworthy of eternal life by sin , and especially by unbelief , mark . . he that believeth not , shall be damned , act. . . see and consider exod. . . psal . . . rev. . . & . . s. shall the punishment of ungodly men be perpetual ? shall it never end ? f. the wicked shall be turned into hell , and all that forget god , psal . . . where their worm di●th not , and their fire is not quenched , mark . , . they shall be punished with everlasting destruction , thess . . . the hellish torments are for the devils and the wicked for ever . there is no promise of any pardon to the damned ; nor that their torments shall have an end ; and therefore for any to say these torments shall end , is presumptuous folly. s. of what duration shall the glory of the saved be ? f. their life and glory is every where said to be everlasting , their kingdom incorruptible and undefiled , that fadeth not away . god shall wipe away all tears from their eyes , and there shall be no more death , nor sorrow , nor crying ; nor shall there be any more pain , for the former things are passed away ▪ rev. . . they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament , and as the stars , for ever and ever , dan. . . s. shall the children of god know one another , and so rejoice together in the kingdom of their father ? f. . yes , they shall be like the angels , who know one another , and rejoice together in heaven , luke . , . they shall be like christ , for they shall see him as he is ; and as he conversed of the things concerning his kingdom after he was risen , he will tell them also of his brethren , and what kindness they shewed to them . . st. paul tells the thessalonians , that they were the hope and crown of his rejoicing in the day of the lord jesus christ ; yea , his glory and joy. but how this should be , and he not know them , is not easy to conceive . . the communion of the faithful in heaven shall far exceed what it was on earth ; but this cannot well be , unless they know each other . s. does the last judgment agree to the principles of common justice and equity ? f. . there is nothing in it contrary thereunto ; for when life and death are set before men , and men chuse death by chusing sinful ways against the known will of god , it 's just with god to give them their choice . . if there were not a judgment to come , wicked men would go unpunish'd , for in this world they commonly escape ; they can bribe almost any wicked action , even murder it self . now all principles of justice cry for vengeance in this case , both to the offender , and he that covers iniquities . and hence , the last judgment is necessary , and agrees with all principles of common justice . . if there were not a judgment to come , the just and righteous people of god would be of all men most miserable , cor. . . for here they are oftentimes exposed to the hardest things , and that for well-doing too . now 't is equal that they should have a time of refreshing , and to this common principles of justice do agree . finally , we can none of us perfectly understand how hainous the sins of those are , who reject the grace of god in the gift of his son ; and therefore we are not able to measure what punishment is proportionable to such iniquity . but here we must rest : that the judg of all the earth will do ●ight . for if there were unrighteousness with god , how then should he judg the world ? rom. . , . but all his ways are judgment ; a god of truth , and without iniquity ; just and right is he . deut. . . s. when shall be the time of this eternal judgment ? f. god has not revealed that to man ; but in that our life here is very short , this judgment is at hand in respect of us . for it is appointed unto man once to die , and after that the judgment , heb. . . s. i am well satisfied concerning these sacred principles of the christian religion , i desire some further instruction concerning my walking with god in the communion of his church . f. being thus a christian , built upon this foundation , christ being the chief corner-stone , thou must continue in the faith , colos . . . and keep thy self in the love of god , praying in the holy ghost , judge . walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless , luke . . obeying all thy superiors . s. i desire you to shew me the rules of prayer ; and also the rules of my obedience to my superiors . f. these things are briefly comprehended in the lord's prayer , which he taught his disciples ; and in the fifth commandment , which is the first commandment with promise , matth. . , , , , . ephes . . . which in the next discourse we will consider . of the duty of prayer . son. who may warrantably pray according to christ's directions , in the prayer set down mat. . , & c ? father . although it is the duty of all men to humble themselves in prayer before the lord their maker , yet these rules were given to the disciples of christ , to the children of god. s. in what sence are christians the children of god ? f. by adoption and regeneration ; they are born of god , or of the spirit , and received into grace and favour . s. i desire you to expound unto me the lord's prayer . f. that i shall endeavour to do . . our father which art in heaven . christ teacheth us , to put on charity when we pray ; that is , to include our brethren with our selves . when we pray unto god , we must also pray in faith , believing that he heareth us , jam. . , . mat. . . . which art in heaven . here we profess that our god is in heaven , as the place of his special residence . hence our saviour in prayer did frequently lift up his eyes to heaven . . hallowed be thy name . we are to make the honour and glory of the name of god , the dearest to us of all things ; thus moses was more willing to die , than that the name of god should be reproached . . thy kingdom come . the kingdom of god is to be considered , with respect to his church in this world. and then we pray , in this petition , for it's growth in number and in grace . we ought also to hope for the coming of christ's kingdom in the glory of it , and by prayer to seek for it . . thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven ; it is evident here , that by heaven is meant heaven in a literal sence , the place which is opposed to the earth . and in all prayer we must submit our will to the will of god , and to beware that we do not act contrary to his will , and so contradict our own prayer . . give us this day our daily bread. here we acknowledg that our common mercies are all in the hand of god to give them , or to withhold them . we are also taught to live by faith in these enjoyments , and not only by some , because god has promised that all these things shall be added to those that seek him rightly . . and forgive us our debts , as we forgive our debtors . we learn here that the best of god's children are liable to offend , they never esteemed themselves pe●●● without all imperfection : and they that offend , must pray , and that daily too , for remission of sin ; this teacheth us to humble our selves daily before god. we see here also a necessity of being merciful to such as offend us , and to forgive with readiness all that trespass against us ; specially if they do turn , saying , i repent . prayer for mercy , without charity in him that prayeth , will not be accepted of god. . and lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil. here we profess to believe , that god has the disposing of all tryals which do attend us in this mortal state ; and here we pray that he will not suffer us to be tempted above what we are able , but that he will with the temptation make a way to escape , that we may be able to bear it . . for thine is the kingdom , and the power , and the glory for ever . here we profess our faith in prayer . . that the kingdom is his ; and that therefore we depend on him for the prosperity of it , and for the glorious coming of his kingdom . . that all power is his , and therefore we depend on him to provide for , and to deliver us , according to his will. . that the glory is everlastingly due to god ; and therefore we ascribe it , as the church did , not unto us , not unto us , but unto thy name give glory ; this is also to praise god in prayer . . amen . this word being truly expressed , shews the full assent of the mind to the whole of the prayer , whether express'd by our selves in private , or by such as join sincerely with us in publick . s. is it our duty to use this form of words , or to pray according to the tenor of the words ? f. doubtless we are at liberty to use both ; and for weak christians , and indeed for all christians in their private devotions , it is safe to use these very words , so they be spoken with a heart and soul truly breathing after god , when ye pray , say , our father , &c. luk. . . s. what other ordinances hath christ ordained for the general use of his church ? f. preaching the word to edification , exhortation , reproof , and correction of offenders , and the comfort of the sincere ; and therewithall the frequent use of the holy table of the lord , tim. . , . act. . . s. how shall i know a lawful minister , one that is sent of god , that i may hear the word according to the will of god ? f. observe these rules . . know that no man of true christian modesty , will pretend to be immediatly sent by a commission from heaven . and yet , . god must make men ministers by the gifts of his grace , illuminating their understanding , and capaciating them to speak to edification , before the church can make them ministers . . no unbaptised person , let his parts be what they will , has any liberty to be a minister in the church of god , because he is not yet imbodied with the church of god , nor can be without baptism . and here remember our dear saviour would not preach one sermon till he was baptised . . when men are competently gifted and qualified in point of life , being church-members , they are to be chosen by the church , and ordain'd to the work of the ministery , by prayer and fasting , with the laying on of hands of the messengers and elders of the church , for such offices as the church finds them most capable . . there is a liberty in the church , for brethren which are capable , to exercise their gifts to the edification of the body ; and men thus called , or priviledged in the church , thou mayest lawfully hear . if thou further goest , thou goest without rule . s. what honour or respect do i ow to my lawful pastours or teachers ? f. . thou art bound to honour them in love , for the work's-sake whereunto they are called . . thou must obey them in the lord , as they declare to thee the counsel of god , and admonish thee . . thou must pray for them , that god may make them a blessing to thee . s. of what concernment is the holy table of the lord ? f. it is an ordinance of great concernment ; being ordained by christ himself to shew forth a perpetual memorial of his death , till he come the second time without sin to salvation . s. i pray shew me the manner of its ins●itution . f. the lord jesus , the same night in which he was betrayed , took bread. and when he had given thanks , he brake it , and said , take , eat , this is my body which is broken for you ; this do in remembrance of me . and after the same manner also he took the cup , when he had supped , saying , this cup is the new testament in my blood ; this do ye , as oft as ye drink it , in remembrance of me . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew forth the lord's death till he come , cor. . s. what is required of all that partake of this holy bread and cup ? f. . they must be such as continue in the apostles doctrine , and true christian fellowship , act. . . . they must examine themselves , whether they walk in the truth with a good conscience , both towards god , and also towards men. . they must labour to discern the lord's body , as the only sacrifice for sin , as signified in this service . . they must hereby testify true unity with the church : who are hereby shewed to be one bread , and one body , for they are all partakers of that one bread. s. what is the danger of eating this bread , and drinking this cup unworthily ? f. they that eat and drink unworthily , receive condemnation to themselves , not discerning the lord's body . s. is this bread , and this cup , the real body , and the real blood of christ ? f. this bread , and this cup , is the real body and blood of christ , in a spiritual and mystical sense , but not carnally and corporally . s. are all members of the church to partake of the cup , as well as of the bread ? f. yes , they have express command from christ to take the cup ; for he saith , drink ye all of it , matth. . . the bread is the communion of the body of christ , and the cup is the communion of the blood of christ ; and of this communion the whole body mystical , the church , are partakers , cor. . , , . s. but were they not all ministers that sat at the table with our saviour ? f. when ministers receive that holy bread , an● cup , they do not receive it as they are ministers , 〈◊〉 as they are members of the body , cor. . . 〈◊〉 dispense the ordinance as ministers , but they partake●● it as members . s. whether are we to kneel when we receive th● holy ordinance , or to sit at the table ? f. a reverent gesture is necessary ; but decently to sit at the table of the lord is most warrantable , being according to the example of christ and his apostles at the institution , matth. . . mark . . luk. . . s. what is the conclusion of this service ? f. giving thanks to god for his mercy in giving christ for us : and this is to be done with hearts fille● with joy , and the thanksgiving to be in the manner of an hymn . s. must this hymn , or thanksgiving , be in meeter , and expressed by all ? f. there is no rule for either of these ; and the first would infer the necessity of a poet to compose the hymn , which is not to be supposed . . all pray and praise god when they heartily join with the minister , who is most sit to express the praises of god in the church . of obedience to superiours . son. what is my duty towards my parents by god's law , and by the gospel ? father . . to love and reverence their persons . . a pious fear and obedience to their authority , lev. . . prov. . . & . . my son , hear the instruction of thy father , and forsake not the law of thy mother . the just commands of parents are a law to children ; colos . . . children , obey your parents in all things , for this is well-pleasing to the lord. . to help them when they are in want ; thus our saviour interpreteth the fifth commandment , mat. . , , . mark . . . not to speak evil of your parents , for he that does so , is in danger of death , mark . . mat. . . s. what is the duty of servants to masters ? f. . let as many servants as are under the yoak , count their own masters worthy of all honour , that the name of god and his doctrine be not blasphemed , tim. . . . and they that have believing masters , let them not despise them because they are brethren , but rather do them service because they are faithful , tim. . . the gospel does not free any from the duties of morality , but makes their obligation to these duties more strong . and if any man teach otherwise , to open a gap to disobedience to our superiours , he is proud , and knows nothing , tim. . . . servants are to be obedient to them that are their masters according to the flesh , with fear and trembling , in singleness of heart as to christ , not with eye-service as men-pleasers , but as the servants of christ , doing the will of god from the heart with good will doing service as to the lord , and not to men [ because though we serve men in these duties of life , yet god is he that commands it ] knowing ( also ) that what good thing any man doth , [ in the honest d●●charge of his duty ] the same shall he receive of the lord , whether he be a servant or a master , ephes . . . to . s. what is the duty of young men to the aged ? f. thou shalt rise up before the gray head , and honour the face of the old man , lev. . . s. what other demonstrations of honour is there due to the aged ? f. to speak to them reverently as to fathers , and to give them the civilities of the place . of the honour due to the king. son. what is my duty to●●●ds my prince or soveraign ? father . thou art to honour the king next unto god , because there is none above him in authority over thee but god : fear god , honour the king , pet. . . he is the lord 's anointed , for so was cyrus king of persia , ezra . . isa . . . they are called gods , psal . . . fear therefore the lord and the king , and meddle not with disloyal persons who are given to change , prov. . . let every soul be subject to the higher powers — for the powers that be are ordained of god , rom. . , , . s. in what things am i bound to obey my soveraign ? f. in all things which he commands , either actively or passively . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supream , or unto governours as unto those that are sent by him , pet. . , . thou must be ready to every good work which they command , tit. . . thou must in no wise rebel against him , rom. . . s. what if god command one thing , and the king command another contrary to god's command , what then must i do ? f. thou 〈◊〉 do what god commands , and suffer patiently what the king imposeth , though it be death it self ; for so did daniel , ch. . . and so did the three children , dan. . , . and the apostles did the same , act. . . s. wha● must be the frame of my spirit towards my prince in such hard usage ? f. . thou must not curse the king , no not in secret , for god will discover it , eccles . . . thou shalt not revile the gods , nor speak evil of the ruler of my people , exod. . . act. . . . thou must give to caesar the things which are caesars ; honour , fear , tribute , &c. for so hath christ commanded , mat. . . rom. . . . thou must pray for him in love unfainedly ; for this is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour , tim. . , , . . thou must do all this for conscience-sake , suffering grief patiently , commiting thy self into the hands of god , in well-doing , as into the hands of a faithful creator , rom. . . pet. . . & . . to conclude , know this , that religion is ordain'd to make us wise and good men. the christian religion is the best religion : and the best christians will be the best subjects to princes , most obedient to parents , most faithful to masters ; for herein do they exercise themselves , to have always a conscience void of offenc● , both towards god , by walking humbly with him ; and towards men , by doing to all men as they would that men should do to them . act. . . mat. . . finis .