The great and popular objection against the repeal of the penal laws & tests briefly stated and consider'd, and which may serve for answer to several late pamphlets upon that subject / by a friend to liberty for liberties sake. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1688 Approx. 28 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A70777 Wing P1298A ESTC R12742 12254672 ocm 12254672 57321 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A70777) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 57321) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 364:6 or 1510:16) The great and popular objection against the repeal of the penal laws & tests briefly stated and consider'd, and which may serve for answer to several late pamphlets upon that subject / by a friend to liberty for liberties sake. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 23 p. Printed and sold by Andrew Sowle ..., London : 1688. Attributed to Penn. Cf. Wing; NUC pre-1956. "Licensed February the 4th 1687" Reproduction of original in the Harvard University Library and University of Michigan Libraries. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Church and state -- England. Anti-Catholicism -- England. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-09 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-09 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE Great and Popular OBJECTION Against the Repeal of the Penal Laws & Tests BRIEFLY Stated and Consider'd , AND WHICH May serve for Answer to several late PAMPHLETS upon that Subject . By a Friend to Liberty for Liberties sake Licensed February the 4th 1687. LONDON , Printed , and Sold , by Andrew Sowle , at the Three-Keys , in Nags-Head-Court , in Grace-Church-Street , over-against the Conduit , 1688. THE Great and Popular OBJECTION Against the Repeal of the Penal Laws & Tests , &c. IF the Consequences that are imagin'd to follow the Repeal of the Penal Statutes and Tests ( and which so many give for the reason of their dislike to the Liberty that is sought by it ) were indeed so Terrible as they are industriously represented , I should readily fall in with the common Jealousie , and help to augment the number of those that are for their Continuance ; but when I consider how long our Government was Happy without Them , how much of Heat and Partialty prevail'd in their Constitution , and how troublesome and impracticable their Execution are , and that , in our present Circumstances , They appear a plain Barriere to our Happiness , instead of a Bulwark to our Religion , I cannot but lament the misfortune of the Publick , that those Gentlemen are yet under the fatal mistake of thinking Them necessary to our Safety , that with more Reason and Charity , in my opinion , should Endeavour to save us from the Inconveniences of them . For the Question being gain'd against Coertion in Religion , and the impiety & impolicy of Persecution , agreed on all hands , all that is said by the most averse to the extent of the Repeal desired , issues here , If the Papists should happen to have Power or Ease , they are sure to use it to the prejudice of the rest , and therefore it is the Interest of the rest to oppose all their attempts to get it . The Consequence of which is this , It were better the Power of Persecution rested where it is , then to come into hands that would use it more Rigorously . I say , All Arts and Rhetorical Declamations set aside , This is the Center and Substance of all that 's said , by Any Body , against the Repeal of the Penal Laws , and more especially the Tests : And to this I would modestly offer what follows . I can by no means imagin there should be so much Danger where there is so little Trust : indeed none : And where one does not Trust one cannot be Deceived : Now there is no Trust , where there is a Law that puts all Parties out of the Power of one another : For therefore is a Law desired , that the hazard of Trusting may be out of Doors . And as this Law may be fram'd , I humbly conceive , it will not be impossible to secure every Party from the bigottry of the rest , else , I must acknowledge , nothing will save us from the mischief of Relapses . And whatever may be said against a Legal Security now , is as strong and reasonable against the hopes of any , whoever has the Chair : For Ambition , we see , is but too apt to creep into all Parties , and worldly Dominion has been an old and powerful Baite : If Law cannot secure us against it , we shall ever be to seek for the assurance we desire in this World. It will yet be said , That the best Law Men can make , is nothing without Execution , and That being in the Power of Those whose Principles or Interests may lead them to Evade or Perver it , the Insecurity is the same ; yet with their leave that think so , it is one thing to dispence with a Pe●●● Law against a thing , not evil in it self , and another to violate a Law of common Right and Safety , which is evil in it self ; for this were both to Repeal and Make Laws without a Parliament , which the Judges of no Raign have ever attempted to deliver for Law. If the Law propos'd , Repeal Penal Laws for Religion ( and surely 't is propos'd for that end ) the Prince of himself cannot Enact a Penal Law to burt any body , whatever be his Religion , and we are so far safe from the Mischeif of Persecution , tho our security went no farther . But that we should be less safe , because the King , we so much Fear , is ready to Consent to a GREAT CHARTER for Liberty of Conscience , by which , it shall be Declared the RIGHT of Mankind to make a free and open choice and profession of Faith and Worship towards GOD , and that any Constraint or Interruption upon that Freedom , is Impiety , and an Evil in it self , and that Law , therefore Indispenfible , Is , I must confess , a Notion very Extraordinary . However , It is not hard to Execute a Law , when it is best Executed by doing nothing , for letting men alone compli●● best with such an One , and the Common Law secures them , as well as this , from those that meddle with them . I know it is further Objected , that tho this were done , it would not rest here , A Parliament might quickly be Packt to over-throw this Establishment , and then we should be all ruin'd ; for we should not only have Laws of the severest Nature , but force to execute them . But as Grave as the Objection looks , permit me to say , there is more of Art then Truth or Force in it : For don't we see that Wagers are every where laying by the present Enemies of Liberty , That the King can't , even with the help of his Dissenters , get a Parliament that will Repeal the Penal Laws and Tests , and yet that they should pretend to fear he may get One to Repeal Liberty of Conscience , and Enact the Bloodiest Laws in lieu of it ( to which to be sure the Dissenters will never assist ) is a contradiction , like that of Magnifying the Prerogative , and Rayling at the Declaration , Crying down Common Wealths Men , and Opposing the Monarchy constantly with their Arguments ; Fighting against the distinction of the Natural and Political Capacity of the King , and making it every day to serve their own turn , and upon the worst terms too , Persecution , I mean. But waving the Humour , let us examine the Fear : In my opinion 't is Groundless ; for since their Master-piece , the Letter to a Dissenter tells us , that there can be no danger of the Bet , where the Odds are so great as Two Hundred to One , we must conclude that Objection is of no weight against our Liberty : For Number being the Natural Power of a Kingdom , the Artificial ( which is the Executive part of the Government ) must needs move heavily and dangerously when it works against it . But if a Law be no security , because of the fear of a Packt Parliament , and Force to back it , what security , after all , can the Penal Statutes and Tests be ? are they any more then Law ? If it be said , they caution and awe the Roman Catholicks . I say the Uiolation of a Great Charter for Liberty of Conscience will do it much more , because the Penalty may be Greater , and better fixt and applyed . And since we only fear the Repeal of the One by a Packt Parliament , as well as the Other , the Authority which abolishes either , is equally Invalid , and therefore the Caution and Fear of Violating the one , must needs be as Great as of Overthrowing the other . This would be less difficult to us to apprehend , If we made the equal Reflections that become our present Condition . We look on France till we frighten our selves from the best means of our worldly Happiness , but will not look at home upon greater Cruelties , if we consider Theirs were exercised against those of another Religion , but Ours upon the People of our own ; tho when we observe their Conduct elsewhere , it is easie to see , it must have something very particular in it . But at the same time we will take no notice of the greatest Tranquility in Germany and Switzerland under a compleat Liberty . Is this any thing but the Fruit of Law , The Agreement of Princes and States , The Great Charter of those Countries inviolably kept these forty years , The Thing his Majesty , with so much Zeal and Goodness presses to establish in his Dominions ? Why then may not that be done here that has been so happily acted elsewhere ? Are our Papists and Protestants worse here then there ? Or are our Differences greater ? Or are our Numbers more dangerously unequal , that we dare not trust a Law that others in our very Circumstances are so happy under ? They don't only endure one anothers Religion , but take their Turns the same Days in the same Churches or Places for Divine Worship ; and will not the same Kingdom serve us ? we must then have the worst of Natures , or be the worse for our Religion . And tho many good reasons have been given , and may be elsewhere in evidence of this Notion , I will venture to offer a few at this time that never saw Light yet , that I know of , and which may happen to give some , to those that labour under the disbelief of it . I say then , a GREAT CHARTER for Liberty of Conscience , to be made and kept , is not only the true Interest of the Roman Catholicks , but they think so , because they must think so : For if the Destruction of Protestancy , by a way of Violence , had been their Project , as much as it is our Fear , they had but one way in the World to have brought it to pass , and that was , to have made the utmost use of the Church of Englands Penal Laws , which they found ready to their Hands , for the Destruction of the Protestant Dissenters , and to which she could not refuse her assistance , upon her principles of Obedience , if there were no Inclination left in her to that Fierce and Inhumane chase . By this , one Party of Protestants , had been easily made the Means of the others Extirpation , and how far Pleasures , Honours , Offices and Fear would have gone to have made an entire Conquest , easie upon her , is not the hardest thing in the World to apprehend , when the Bodies of her Dissenters had been thus cruelly dissolved by her . And if this have any sense in it , we must conclude , that delivering one Party of Protestants from the Rage and Power of the other , cannot be a way to bring in Popery . I own , it may affect the present Ecclesiastical Policy of the Church of England , but I never took that for Protestancy : On the contrary , it has evidently weaken'd the better part of the Protestant Interest in General , in these Kingdoms , ever since the Reformation . But besides this , 't is one thing to Constrain a Law from the Prince , and another to have it offer'd by the Prince : The one , to be sure , he thinks against his Interest , and the other he takes to be as certainly for it . And if he thinks it is his Interest to preserve such a Law , we are sure of our Safety by it . That which moves him to it , must oblige him to maintain it ; and if he does not heartily intend to support this Liberty , his giving it , must needs increase the Power and Interest he would suppress : An Error too gross to be made with so much Preparation and Art. Nor is this all , in my opinion it is much more reasonable to believe that a Law for Liberty of Conscience should preserve us against the thing we apprehend so much , viz. Popery , because 't is easier to fall from one Extream to another , then from a Mean to an Extream : And 't is certain , there are more Parties concern'd to support such a Law for Liberty , then to maintain those of Severity ; for the Church of England only appears to uphold these , but all Parties besides agree to maintain That . And if it was the Interest of the Roman Catholicks to divide the Dissenters from the Church of England , to be sure they cannot think it safe to unite Them : They have divided Them by the Liberty , But any attempts to take it away will infallibly joyn them . And when I consider how much more the Roman Catholicks will in all probability want Liberty in after Raigns , then the Dissenters in this , I am also led to Conclude , that they are not so secure in the Repeal of the Penal Laws and Tests themselves , as in their own Moderation in the use of the Liberty that follows : For a Parliament in after Raigns may easily return them , and worse , if that can be , and will certainly do it , if they use their present opportunity too Eagrely and Partially ; but no Parliament will ever think so harsh a Constitution fit to be reviv'd , when the Moderation of the Gentlemen against whom it was made , hath prov'd it Useless , Unreasonable and Unsafe . This consideration is a reciprocal Caution to Us , not to refuse them the Rights of English Men , and to Them , not to mis-use them . And since hitherto we seem not so angry at the Liberty , as at the Manner of its being granted ; if we are sincere in this , we cannot refuse the King in our own way , I mean , by Law. And in my Opinion , 't is a point gain'd , not to have this ease Precarious from the Crown , as well as that it shews the Kings sincerity beyond a doubt , that he is Solicitous to assure so great a Good to us in our own method . Let it not then be thought a Crime , that he does so , or that he takes the next and plainest ways to discriminate Persons for that end ; for if the Consequence of his Endeavours were to ruin others for a Party , it might be thought Packing indeed ; but when it is to open Enclosures and Level Interests , and by Law , to secure Them from the Ambition of one another , it seems to me to be Unpacking for the Good of the Whole , that which hath been so long Packt for the sole Good of a Party . And truly if we will yet scruple the Sincerity of the Prince , I know not an easier and better way to assure our selves , then by chusing such Persons to serve in Parliament , whose Love and Sincerity for this Liberty we have the greatest Confidence in ; For as that will certainly help to facilitate the Work , so where two Parties seem to conspire one end , nothing discovers the Insincerity of one side , like the Truth and Integrity of the other in persuing it . Let us not then dislike Liberty in the Kings way , and refuse it in our own , because he would make it his ; for that would justly question our Truth and Charity , without which , our pretence of Religion or Safety is vain . We have heard it said , that the Persecution of the last Raign came from the Papists , and therefore we cannot expect they should be sincere for Liberty in this ; but if that were true , ( tho it could not be the Roman Catholicks that forc'd the late King to cancel his Declaration for Liberty , or that couzn'd the Dissenters of a Law for it ) yet there is this use to be made of the Trick , that now the Roman Catholicks are for Liberty , the Church of England cannot , with any credit , be against it . On the contrary , it shows , if they did Move those Storms of Persecution , it was to constrain the Dissenters to joyn with them in the Repeal of the Laws that rais'd Them , that so they might be allow'd to share in the Calm : People are most apt to see the Necessity and Benefit of Liberty by the want of it . It is a Misfortune to be lamented , the Church of England should always be against Liberty , when the Court is for it , because the Court , in her opinion , is not Sincere ; when at the same time , she knows , it is at no time to be had without them : A way for poor Dissenters , never to hope for such a thing as Liberty of Conscience at her hands : For without offering any Violence to the rules of Charity , she seems to excuse her unwillingness by their Insincerity . But with her favour , They must be sincere when their Interest will have them so . And tho it is Imagin'd the Dissenter has no other bottom for his Confidence and Conjunction then the Roman Catholicks Faith and Truth , 't is too mean an Insinuation against his understanding , that I assure that Author is yet Good and Jealous enough , not to depend upon either the Councel of Trent , or the Thirty Nine Articles for his safety . By no means ; those Spiritual Mortgages , Folks give of their Souls , are too uncertain securities about worldly Matters , unless Men had , at least , a better Practice . Nothing , humanely speaking , fixes any Man like his Interest ; And tho this Agreement were only Hobson's choice in Roman Catholick and Dissenter , the security is not the less : For what-ever be the Morality of any Party , if I am sure of them by the side of Interest and Necessity , I will never seek or value an Ensurance by Oaths and Tests . Interest is the choice Men Naturally make , and Necessity compels Submission from the unhappy Subjects of her Power . And tho some do Insinuate that better terms are to be hop'd from the Church of England hereafter , then now from the Roman Catholicks , I take leave to say , that it is an unwarrantable use of Providence , for them to neglect the present Certain Overtures ( tho they were the effects of Necessity ) out of hopes the Church of England will use them better , when she has Power , not to do it , and not to care : when all Parties show their abuse of Power in their turns , 't is reason enough to embrace the Benefit of Necessity from the first that offers : And nothing else , I fear , moves the Church of England to promise ; And if so great a number may lie under such a Necessity , a less number cannot but be under a greater , and that I take to be the Roman Catholicks Case , and our Assurance . If the Church of England could secure the Dissenters without that compliance she fears , 't were something , if not , they are under an equal necessity to accept what the Roman Catholiks are under to offer : And for this reason , I cannot but think her joyning in the Liberty more reasonable , then their refusing it for her sake . If she affects an Union , why should she uphold the Means of Division ? Ought not the Dissenters to suspect her Integrity , in refusing a good Understanding , in the very way that must save those she would gain ? And since she is sure They won't turn Papists , how does she lose Them in that way , in which she can only pretend to have Them , viz. as Protestants ; for otherwise they will as little conform to her . And if the Price of her Good Will must be to uphold the Brand of her Conduct , and Means of their own Ruin , It is what they can never give , and she in Conscience and Wisdom should never ask . And what ever is suggested , it is too unwarily thought of any , that the Dissenters intend only their security against the Power of the Church of England , 't is against the Spirit of Persecution in all Churches , they must all seek to be safe ; that , which so ever of them happens to have the Government , the Rest may be secure under it ; Else , 't is but shutting one Door against an Evil , and opening another to let it in . If she will please but to tell me what way she can secure the Dissenters against her own Ambition , when one of her Communion Ascends the Throne , I will undertake to tell her , how she and the Dissenters may be safe from the Danger of Popery in the Raign of a King of that Religion . For the Spirit of Persecution being the same every where , it must have the same Remedy . She can't think we ought to Trust Her , That won't Trust , and That makes Trusting Dangerous . And what-ever the Gentlemen of her Communion are pleas'd to suggest of the present good understanding , between the Roman Catholicks and Dissenters , to blow their Interest with the People , Men must be greatly Impos'd upon , to Imagine the present Affinity between them , can regard any thing but their common Safety ; and common Danger makes that every where , reasonable and necessary . If this were not the case , I should hold my self concern'd to act another Part in this affair ; And if this be the case , it plainly answers all the Jealousie and Objection of the Times : For 't is as lawful for them to joyn in this as in any Society of Trade , and more requisite . I say , It can be no just Reflection from the Church of England , when they must be ill read , that don't know , that she is the Half-way House between the two Dissenters , and that the Protestant Dissenter is a refine upon her , as she is upon the Church of Rome . So that tho it be true that they joyn with the Papists , it is as true that it is not with Popery , but for Liberty , which the same Author tells us , is such a contradiction to Infallibility , which is his dangerous Popery : Tho I must tell him , I think it a greater to Persecute People upon a professed fallible Principle . Let it satisfie that Gentleman and his Followers , whose main drift , is Rallying Dissenters for relying on Romish Faith for security , that tho They joyn with Roman Catholicks to get Liberty , They will trust them , and every body else , as little as they can to keep it , and less joyn with them to take it away . On the contrary , in case of such attempts , 't is reasonable to believe they will sooner unite with the Church of England to Preserve , what they now so freely oppose Her to obtain . But it may be said , It will then be too late , and therefore now too dangerous , to give that Interest , in the mean while , so much Play and Progress . This were an Hazard indeed , if the Roman Catholicks could do any thing then , that they cannot do now , or if the Dissenters were to be less Numerous , less Sensible , or less Free and Able to resent it . I cannot see how the Roman Catholicks can be in a better Cordition to Hurt us , if the Dissenters are not in a worse to Help us . Certainly their numbers must have the odds . On the other hand , the Dissenters , under Persecution , can do nothing , and while the Liberty is Precarious they dare do nothing ; so that the way to render them useful to oppose the Violence fear'd , is to make their Interest in the Liberty Legal , as well as that a Legal Freedom is the best way to prevent all violent attempts in the Roman Catholicks . For when the Law supports their Joynt Interest , that will naturally joyn and lead Them to maintain the Law that defends it . I shall be heartily sorry if the Church of England cannot tell how to venture her self with those under Liberty , who have liv'd so well with her under her Persecution : Tho , as I have said before , there is no Trust in the case , since , therefore , a Law is desired , that we may not rely on so frail a Security : And where a Law puts all Parties upon one Bottom , I cannot help thinking all Parties are oblig'd in Example and Interest carefully to preserve it . And if we would but reflect how much more Law in all Ages hath preserv'd Mankind then Force , we would less argue the Insecurity of Law ; but 't is utterly Inconsistant at a time , when we plead the Almightiness of present Laws for our Safety . In short , If she only seeks to be Safe , let her not refuse the Security that Others are ready to take , and if she desires more , 't is an unhappy Instance of her love to Dominion , and they can never be safe that Grant it . Let her not then be Fond but Wise ; and remember , that the Security is not destroy'd , but Chang'd and Enlarg'd : For from a Single , it becomes more then a Double Bond , and They that reject such a Security , cannot be thought sincere in asking of any . But , be that as it will , If we can but once see A MAGNA CHARTA for Liberty of Conscience , Establish'd in these Kingdoms by the wisdom of a Parliament , They will be very Hardy , indeed , who Dare , at any time , Attempt to Shake It , That has the Jealousie , Union and Resolution of so many Great , Serious and Wealthy Interests to support It. I will not say , what this Charter shall be , for it does not become me , nor is it yet time ; but I dare say , that it may be , and in such terms too , as all Parties shall find their Account : And unless that be the Reason why any will oppose it , It can neither miss to be , nor to be kept ; and if such a Dissenter be to be found to this common Good , his opposition makes him a Common Enemy . I say , nothing can oppose such a Charter , but State Religion , and that which can Govern the rest , will Hazard the rest . A National Religion by Law , where it is not so by Number and Inclination , is a National Nusance ; for it will ever be matter of Strife . If she seeks to be Safe , but not to Rule , that which preserves the rest , secures her ; If more is expected , 't is less reasonable , in my opinion , for the Rest to Sacrifice their Safety to her Authority , then only to subject her Rule to their Security . FINIS .