The difference of that call of God to the ministry which is by the power of his own gift and measure of life, revealed, and of that, which is received of man, and taught by man, as is manifest by these two severall calls, herein declared, with several principals relating to this second call, answered / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44839 of text R21988 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3223). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 34 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44839 Wing H3223 ESTC R21988 12227453 ocm 12227453 56588 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44839) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 56588) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 919:21) The difference of that call of God to the ministry which is by the power of his own gift and measure of life, revealed, and of that, which is received of man, and taught by man, as is manifest by these two severall calls, herein declared, with several principals relating to this second call, answered / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 16 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., London : 1659. Reproduction of original in Cambridge University Library. eng Clergy -- Office. A44839 R21988 (Wing H3223). civilwar no The difference of that call of God to the ministry: vvhich is by the power of his own gift, and measure of life, revealed, and of that, whic Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 6677 19 0 0 0 0 0 28 C The rate of 28 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE DIFFERENCE Of that call of God to the MINISTRY : VVhich is by the power of his own gift , and measure of life , revealed . And of that , which is received of man , and taught by man . As is manifest by these two several calls , herein declared ; with several Principals relating to this second call , Answered . By RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . LONDON , Printed for Thomas Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate , 1659. TO THE READER . IT being of the Lord so ordered , that a publick dispute was appointed betwixt Thomas Dance Priest in Sandwich in Kent , and those called Quakers , which was upon the twelfth and thirteenth daies of the second moneth , in which many weighty things , concerning Religion was discoursed of ; in which it was first proved by us , according to the Scripture , that Christ Jesus the true light , hath enlightened every one that commeth into the World , John , 1. 9. and John , 12. and another weighty matter , concerning Religion , discoursed upon was , the righteousnesse by which man is justified before God , which by us was witnessed and proved , to be onely by the righteousness that was in Christ Jesus , being also made manifest in us , the everlasting righteousness , being brought in , according to Dan. 9. 24. again upon the tenth day the discourse was , whether the Scriptures were the word of God ; the Answer was , that the Scriptures were writings , and the writings was not the word , but the thing written of was the word of God ; unto which the Priests also consented : Another thing was concerning the call to the Ministry , whether theirs or ours was according to the Apostles , and according to the Scriptures , the heads of both which calls , is declared as followeth , that all people may judge according to their measure of the gift of Christ , whether of them is according to Scripture Testimony . A Call to the Minstery according to the Scriptures , held forth in these few words following ; Contrary to that Call which is of man , and by man . THat by which the Apostles were called into the work of the Ministry , having gifts differing according to the measure of the manifestation of Christ , by the same am I called : which is also according to the Scriptures , as Eph. 4. Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gifts of Christ , by which gift according to the measure of it , were they made ; Some Apostles , some Prophets , some Evangelists , some Pastors and Teachers , &c. And this was by the Power , Vertue and Operation of the gift of Christ in them : and as then , so now ; for there is not another way to be called into the Ministery by , neither doth any profit the people at all , but they who minister from the power , & moving of that gift which they have received from the Father , by Jesus Christ ; by which gift was I called out of the World , and separated for the work of the Gospel ; by which gift I saw that which had corrupted the earth , & by it was moved , to minister against it ; which gift is that , which hath the power in it , both to convince & convert unto God , according as the Apostle Peter ( who was unlearned in the Letter ) wa● made a Minister by the gift of the Spirit of Christ ; and saith , 1 Pet. 4 10. As every one hath received the gift , even so let him minister the same one to another , as good stewards of the manifold Grace of God ; ( And ) If any man speak , let him speak as the Oracle of God , ( and ) if any man Minister , let him do it , as of the ability which God giveth , that God in all things may be glorified . So that that Ministery by which God is glorified and people converted , is that , which proceeds from the operation and power of his own gifts in them ; which is that Ministery which perfecteth the Saints , edifies the body of Christ ; Brings into the unity of the Faith , unto the knowledge of the Son of God , and unto a perfect man , and unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ . But they which gather Scriptures together in their earthly wisdom , and from that which they have gathered , minister unto others ; this ministery doth not perfect the Saints , nor edifie the body of Christ , nor bring to the unity of the Faith ( but into strife and divisions ) not to the knowledge of the Son of God , but leads from his knowledge ; not unto a perfect man , but pleads against perfection ; not into the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ; ( no ) not unto the measure of the least Saint , so that Ministery is to be ceased from , which proceeds not from the measure of the Fathers gift ; & that onely continued unto the end of the World which his gift calleth into , and carrieth on in ; So I , by the measure of his free Spirit , being called and made a Minister of it unto others ( ●ot of the Letter , but of the Spirit ) in which in all ages the true Ministery stood ; having not received it of man , neither was I taught it , but by the revelation and manifestation of the life of Christ in me . Which Spirit in me according to its measure is as true and as infallible as it was in them , which by it were made Apostles , Evangelists , Prophets and Teachers formerly , being the same in power , vertue and operation as it was , as able to reveal and make manifest , to teach , edifie and perfect as it was , and to beget people out of the World into the Covenant of Light and Life ; and all who are Ministers of Christ , for the gathering of his seed from the ends of the earth , into the Kingdom of his dear Son , must from the same Spirit witness their Call and separation to that work ; and all other calls , are false , and their ministery profits not , which doth not singly proceed from the measure of that gift : but all , who do abide in the measure of his gift , and from it minister , by it , they are manifest to be of God ; and in that Ministery they commend themselves unto every mans Conscience in the sight of God , and this is the calling and Ministery , in which as every one abide , they glorifie God . And this is the Ministery of reconciliation , which was committed unto the Apostles , and is unto his Ministers now ; by the power of which , the Devils works comes to be destroyed , and then all things reconciled in one , things in heaven and things in earth but that ministery which is received from man and taught by man , never reconciles any thing unto God , but doth separate from God , and beget into enemy ; but that which proceeds from the measure of the gift of God , brings every one to know the truth in their own particular ; which truth as they abide in it , sets them free from sin , and this Ministery hath the power in it , in all them that have received it , to save them that preach it , and them that hear it and obey it ; and no other Ministery doth profit the people at all , but that which from the gift of God is ministred ; so that this Call and Ministery here declared , is one with , and according to the Apostles , and the Scriptures . RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . The Heads of Priest Dance , his Professed Call to the Ministery , as followeth . Pr. If I should speak non-sence ( as others do ) then I might say , that I am made a Minister by the measure of the gift of Grace , and then I should be accounted a Minister , as well as they , &c. But I do not pretend unto any infallibility in my Ministery , but as these Act. 6. 6. Which when the Apostles had prayed , laid their hands upon them ; although ( saith he ) that laying on of hands , is not of such necessity , but that a man may be a Minister without it ; and as Timothy , although he had some extraordinary gifts , yet he was not infallible , 1 Tim. 4. 14. And ( saith he ) I desire the office of a Bishop ; which he that desireth , desireth a good work , according to 1 Tim. 3. 1. And as for his qualifications they are such as whereby he might have advantaged himself , more abundantly in the World , as to outward means , and might have been cloathed in scarlet , &c. But did rather chuse , and incline himself , to be a Minister of the Gospel , and that the outward means , was not his end in chusing to be a Minister ; but if that he could be satisfied , or see that there did not want Labourers in the Lords work , he could freely leave off , &c. And further , he said , That God had made his preaching effectual for the converting of many , and that there were many , though not in that place , yet some in that place , of whom he could say , as the Apostles said , that they were the seal of his Ministery , &c. These being the Heads of the Particulars . Objections against this Call . WHereas thou saiest , That it is non-sence to say that a man is made a Minister by the gift of Grace . Answ. Then the Apostles spoke non-sence , when they witnessed forth their Call to the Ministery ; for to every one of them was given Grace , according to the measure of the gift of Christ , from which Grace they did Minister , Eph. 4. But the Apostles spoke sensible truth ; therefore he that contradicts it speaks ; non-sence and ignorance , as will further appear in saying , that he pretends unto no infallibility in his Ministry . Answ. Then he pretends to nothing of the Spirit of God ; much less , to be a Minister of the Spirit , as Paul was , 2 Cor. 3. 6. For every measure of the Spirit is infallible , or undeceiveable ; but that which is fallible is deceiveable , and whosoever is taught by that Spirit , is deceived ; and Thomas Dance pretends to have no other Spirit , but that which is deceiveable and fallible , so that it is time to turn away from such . Again , he chargeth Timothy , that he was not infallible , which is a false charge ; for wherein was he fallible , or deceiveable , but he was so infallible , that he not neglecting the gift of God that was in him , he by it , was able to save himself , and those that heard him , 1 Tim 4. 16. And he Ministred from the gift of God in him , which he had received by Prophesie ; and so not from a fallible spirit , but from the infallible ; and so is accused falsly by T. Dance . Again , Tho. Dance saith , That he desireth the Office of a Bishop , &c. Answ. But consider what such a one must be ( which is ) blameless , vigilant , sober , not rude and scornful ; but of good behaviour , apt to teach , not apt to laugh and jear , and cause the people to be light and vain , must he not be given to wine , no striker , not greedy of filthy lucre ; but patient , not a brawler , not covetous ( as it doth appear those Priests are guilty of , which have nothing to preach from but the fallible spirit , which doth alwayes deceive people ) but one that ruleth his own house well , having his children in subjection with all gravity for if a man know not how to rule his own house will , how shall he take care of the Church of God ? but it is manifest that Thomas Dance ruled not his own Church , or people well , but rather provoked them to wantonnesse , rudenesse , and laughter , which is madnesse ; Not a novice , least being lifted up with pride , he fall into the condemnation of the Devil ; but T. D. was so lifted up in the pride of his heart , that he gave two meanings to one place of Scripture , and so falls into the condemnation of the Devil . Pr. And whereas , Thomas Dance saith ; That his qualification is such , that he might have been cloathed in scarlet , &c. Answ. What mightest thou have been ; A Lawyer or Doctor , as one of thy brethren said ? which if thou had , by that the Nation is deceived , though not in so high a measure , as by professing the ministery , but that is taken up as the most profitable trade , to get means , and live in pride ; What if thou hadst been cloathed in Scarlet , in Velvet , in Purple , or any other gorgeous apparel ? and in that apparel which thou art already cloathed with , wilt thou be condemned , when thou comes to know any measure of the gift , of the true Ministry to be thy guide . Pr. Again whereas ; Thou takest the people to be a seal of thy Ministery . An. All the people that were in place , and some more may seal it , to be fallible and deceiveable , as thou hast confessed it to be ; but there is not one that can set to their seal , that it hath brought them to a perfect man ; nor to the knowledge of the Son of God , nor to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ and so it hath not effected any of the work of the true Ministry ; but when thou comes to be searched narrowly , filthy lucre will be found to be the end , for which thou Ministers , without which , thou would be silent . And now further to manifest that , he pretends not to any thing of the infallible spirit in his Ministry , these his principles or doctrines , declare as followeth , with the answer of truth to them . Pr. That every individual man was not enlightened by Christ . Answ. Which doctrine is contrary to John . 1. 9. which saith , That was the true light , which enlighteneth every one that commeth into the World ; and to pervert the Scripture , he gave two meanings , that the people might take whether they would , so that they would but deny the form of sound words , and the plain Scripture ; the first was this , That Christ enlightened every man that is enlightened or else Secondly , that he enlighteneth some in every Nation : Now let people consider how that this can be the meaning of the Holy Ghost , as he said it was , seeing , that here is two meanings , and it is either the one or the other , but he knowes not which , doth plainly manifest , that he hath not the mind of the spirit , which is but one , and speaks as it means , but the Scriptures cannot be broken by such meanings , which saith , That every man is enlightened with the true Light . Pr. That the whole body of the Gentiles was not enlightened . Answ. Then by what shall those Gentiles be condemned , who are not enlightened , seeing that Christ was given for a light to the Gentiles , as the Prophet Isaiah saith , but he doth not say to some of the Gentiles , and not to the whole body , and though the Gentiles , were once darknesse , Eph 5. yet the light shined in the darkness , and the Apostle turned them unto that light which shined in the darknesse , that the eye which was blinded might be opened ; he did not come to give them eyes , but to open the blind eyes , not to give them light , but to turn them to the light that was in them , as Acts , 26. 18. Pr. That the Gospel is an external Light , and not invisible , and that it is not the light within . Answ. Which is contrary to the Apostles doctrine , which saith , the Gospel is the power of God , Rom. 1. which is not external nor visible , but invisible , and shined in their hearts , 2 Cor. 4. 6. and it was hid unto those that were lost , but that , which was visible , they could see and hear , with the visible eyes and ears ; but both the Gospel which is the power of God , and the eye that sees , are invisible . Pr. That Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world , as John said , 1 John 2 2 , Is meant onely the world of believers . Answ. In this he would break the Scriptures , and contradict the Apostle , which saith , he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for our sins onely , ( who were the believers ) but for the sins of the whole World , which whole World , John said , lyes in wickedness , but the whole World of believers lyes not in wickednesse , but is of God . Pr. That they must reconcile the Scriptures . Answ. The Scriptures cannot be broken , John . 10. 35. but is reconciled , and at unity in themselves , and in all those that know them , but he that gives two contrary meanings to one Scripture , he doth not go about to reconcile , but rather to pervert them , and to take away the plain testimony of truth , ( which they give ) from peoples understandings ; but the key of knowledge is found again , which opens the Scriptures in the mystery of them , and herein is the ignorance of teachers and people , in saying the Scriptures are not reconciled ; It is they that are not reconciled to God , nor the Scriptures , and so they utter forth their blindness , ignorance , and errour . Pr. That the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ , was not the Law of the spirit in the Saints ; but that they were two Laws . &c. Answer , This is a false distinction , for God hath said that he will write his law in their hearts , and put his spirit in their inward parts , and the same law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus , being in the Apostles hearts , had set him free from the Law of sin and death , Rom. 8. 2 so it was not two lawes , but one Law . Pr. That there are two righteousnesses of Christ , the one without the Saints , to justifie them , and the other within the Saints , that did sanctifie them . Answ. Christs righteousnesse is but one , and that by which they were both sanctified and justified was but one thing , even the Spirit of our God , 1 Cor. 6. 11. and Christ in them , was Gods righteousnesse , and the hope of Glory , who was made unto them righteousness ; and if Christ was in them , then his righteousnesse was in them or else he , and his righteousnesse is divided , as this Priests doctrine , would make them . Pr. The said Priest denied , that the Saints were justified by that Christ that was in them , ( when he was questioned about it . ) Answ. If they were not justified by that Christ that was in them , then by another Christ , which is no less then to Preach two Christ's , and so he hath preached another Gospel , then the Apostles preached , which whosoever doth , is accursed . Pr. That David , when he was guilty of adultery , and murther , was not in a condemned state but in a justified state . Answ. Here he would make God a justifier of the wicked in his wickednesse , but in that state David was condemned of the Lord , and suffered his anger , and terrors , when his iniquities went over his head , and were too heavy for him to bear , and he was not justified , until that thorow judgement , he was redeemed from the guilt of murther and adultery , and other sins which came over his head ; so such teachers as he , who would have God account them just , who are unjust , and them holy , who are unholy and unrighteous , are as the false Prophets , who put no difference between the holy and prophane , and spoke peace to the wicked , where there was no peace , counting them good , who did evil , saying they that doe evil are good in the sight of the Lord , Mal. 3. 15. as the Priests now say , though they be sinners , yet they are righteous in Gods account , so they would make God a lyar , accounting men to be that which they are not , and to be in Christ , when they are in sin , in the Devils work . Pr. And concerning them in Heb. 12. who were come unto the spirits of just men made perfect , he said it was meant , that they were in Heaven and not upon Earth . Answ. Thus by his false meanings , he hath often perverted the Scriptures , calling his false meanings , the meanings of the Holy-Ghost ; but these mentioned in Heb 12 were them the Apostle wrote unto upon earth , for he did not write to men after they were deceased , and these that he wrote unto , were come unto the innumerable company of Angels , and to the city of the living God , and to the spirits of just men made perfect . Pr. That any creature that holds that principle of being justified by a righteousnesse within , living and dying in that principle , cannot come to heaven . Ans Christ is the justifier of them that believe in him , and his doctrine is , I in them and they in me so Christ and his righteousnesse is in the Saints , and God hath brought in the everlasting righteousnesse , which justifieth , which is not at a distance , separate from the Saints , as these false teachers have Imagined . And the Apostles doctrine and principle is Christs in you , which whosoever liveth and dyeth in this , comes to heaven but on the contrary whosoever hath not Christ , and his righteousnesse in them to justifie them , cannot come to heaven . Pr. That , that which fitted , man for the inheritance ( among the Saints ) did not intitle to the inheritance , or not give them a part in the inheritance . Answ. This is contrary to the Apostles doctrine ; for he thanks God the Father who made them meet to be partakers of the inheritance with the Saints in light , Col , 1. ●● . for he both fitted them for the inheritance , and did intitle , and give them a part in the inheritance , translating them into the Kingdom of his dear Son , verse 13. Pr. That we cannot contain an Infinite righteousnesse in us . Ans Then you cannot contain the righteousnesse of God , for it is infinite , and everlasting , as in Daniel 9 24 and then you cannot contain Christ in you , who is Gods righteousnesse , and who is infinite , and so by this doctrine , he makes all reprobates , as all are who know not Christ in them ; for they who did not retain God in their knowledge , were given up to a reprobate sence . Pr. That it was false doctrine to say that a man must first partake of the Righteousnesse which justifies before it can be imputed to him as his . A. He hath here counted that false doctrine , which the Saints witnessed fulfilled in them , for the righteousnesse of God was imputed to the Saints in the true belief , whereby they did partake of Gods righteousness through faith , before ●t could be accounted theirs ; except that this Priest in his false meanings , would count that to be a mans which he hath no right to , nor part in ; for the faith wherein Abraham did partake of Gods righteousnesse , was reckoned to him for righteousnesse , and he unto whom God imputeth righteousnesse , in his spirit , there is no guile , though these Priests would impute righteousnesse to the wicked as theirs , who are full of guile , and sin , having no life , nor right in Gods righteousnesse , while they live quite out of it . Pr. That God offers salvation to all men , but he intends it but to a few . Answ. There he would frustrate the grace of God , and his salvation , which is free for all , and so he would make the Offers of Gods salvation to many thousands to no purpose , as if God proferred that to many which he never intended to give them , was there ever such a belying of God as this ? for what is it less then to make God a respecter of persons ? If all men by nature be in wickedness , & lyable to condemnation , as this Priest confessed , & yet salvation is intended but for a few , ( though offered to all ) How is God no respecter of persons ? and how is Christ given to be his salvation to the ends of the earth , & a light into the world that all men through him might believe ? and whosoever believeth in Christ shall not perish , but have everlasting life ; so that all may freely come , and be saved according to the love and will of God , who doth not intend that any shall perish , except they reject his way , and the offers of his grace , which hath appeared to all men . Pr. That a Minister of the Gospel doth not know who are elected . An. There he hath belyed the Ministers of the Gospel , for they could discern the elect from the world , as it is written , ye shall discern between him that serveth God , and him that serveth him not ; and Paul and Peter wrote to the elect ; so these teachers who know not the elect , and yet exhorts , all their hearers to believe , and lay hold on Christ , their preaching is in vain ; for if God have but intended a certain number to be saved , and the rest to be condemned , then they set their hearers a work in vain , and many to expect that which they are never like to have ; so these people are in a miserable state ; and note that these Priests though they take sums of mony , and tithes of their hearers in many parishes in this Nation , yet they know not who are elected among them according to this mans words . Pr. That the Sword of the Spirit is ineffectual without the Letter . Answ. The Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God ; which was effectual before the Letter was , to Enoch , to Isaac , to Jacob , to Abraham , and others ; and from the Word was the Letter given forth , and the Letter is not effectual without it . Pr. That there was no Scripture written , but what is extant , and in the Bible . Answ. Yes , against that shall the Scripture bear witness ; the book of Nathan the Prophet , the book of Ahaijah , the book of Iddo , 2 Chr. 9. 29. the book of Shemaia , 2 Chr. 20. 15. the book of Gad , 1 Chro. 29. 29. the book of Jehu , 2 Chro. 20. 3● . the book of Jasher , 2 Sam. 1. 18. the Prophesie of Enoch , Jud. ● . one Epistle of the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 3. 9. one Epistle to the Ephesians , Eph. 3. 3. one Epistle to the Laodiceans . Col. 4. All these Scriptures were given forth from the same Spirit , and to the same end and use , as those are , which are bound up in the Scriptures , although these be left out . Pr. That there was no Scripture nor writings appointed of God to be a Rule of Faith and manners , but what is bound up in the Bible . Answ. Those Scriptures which are not bound up in the Bible ▪ was given forth from the same Spirit , and by the motion of the Holy Ghost ; and so for the same ends and uses that the other Scripture was given forth for , and as he appointed the one , so the other . Pr. That the Letter doth antecede , and go before the Spirit in all that walked in the Spirit . Answ. This is false , for the Spirit did antecede the Letter , in all that walked in the Spirit , who gave forth the Letter from the Spirit . Pr. That the works of Christ in some respect are not perfect . Answ. That is false , for every gift of God is perfect and every work of Christ is perfect in all his children ; but that spirit in thee which is fallible makes nothing perfect , and therefore judgeth all things , yea , Christ and his works to be fallible and deceiveable , like it self . Pr. That the Law requires more strict and exact obedience then the Gospel . Answ. Nay , the Law saith , Thou shalt not commit adultery , but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not lust ; the Law saith , Thou shalt n●● kill , but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not be angry ; the Law saith , Thou shalt not forswear thy self , but the Gospel saith , Swear not at all , Mat. 5. And so the Gospel requires more exact obedience then the Law , contrary to this affirmation . P. That Christ chose a Devil to be one of his Ministers in chusing Judas ; and his proof for it is this , That the Divine nature did not see it good to communicate the knowledge of all things unto the humane nature , and therefore , although he was a Devil when he chose him , yet he knew it not . Answ. This is a charging of Christ with Ignorance , contrary unto John 2. 24. 25. which saith , That Jesus did not commit himself unto them , because he knew all men ▪ and needed not that any should testifie of man , for he knew what was in man ; and though Judas by transgression became a Devil , and the Devil abode not in the truth ; Doth it therefore follow that he was never in the truth ? But Christ speaks of him and to him , as well as to the rest , that they had power to cast out unclean spirits , Mat. 10. 1. And that the Spirit of the Father spoke in them , Mat. 10. 20. So that there was no difference , while the Spirit of the Father led him , and taught , till the Devil entered into his heart to betray that Lord of Life ; so that is a false charge , to say , that Christ sent out a Devil to Minister the Gospel . Pr. That the Spirit of God may accompany a Ministery , and the Minister not have the Spirit . Answ. This is another doctrine then ever the Prophets or Apostles preached ; for I never read in the Scriptures that ever any did Minister for God , which had not the Spirit , nor that ever any was converted unto God , by such a Minister as had not the Spirit . Therefore prove this assertion to the people , where , or when the Spirit of God did accompany that Ministery , when the Minister had not the Spirit ; so that thou maist as well , as thou hast said , not pretend unto any infallibility ( nor unto any truth in thy Ministry for if thou didst , people would see that thou didst pretend unto that , which thou art far from ; so that if thou wouldst not pretend to Minister neither , no more then to have the Spirit , it were better for thee . Pr. That the ●●wer that went forth in the Apostles Ministery , was in God and not in them , but as they have it communicated to them , by the exercise of Faith . Answ. Here thou hast confounded thy self ; for if they had it communicated to them , by their exercise of faith , then it was in them ; for the exercise of Faith is within , in the pure Conscience , and so the power was in them , from which they Ministred , and they did not abuse their power , but from the power Ministred forth their gift as they had received it . Thomas Rumsay , said , That we preach a doctrine of Devils , in saying , That men may be free from sin in this life . Answ. Then the Apostle Paul preached a doctrine of Devils ; for he said , Rom. 6. 2. How shall we that are dead to sin , live any longer therein ; and in the seventh verse , saith , He that is dead is free from sin ; and in the eighteenth verse , he saith to the Believers , being then made freefrom sin , Ye became the servants o● Righteousness ; and in the two and twentieth verse , he again tells them , That now being made free from sin , and become servants to God , you have four fruits unto holiness , and the end , Everlasting Life ; and this was spoken to the Romans while they were in this life , and it was not a doctrine of Devils , but the Doctrine of the Gospel ; and Christ preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , Mat. 5 48. saying , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and also it is written , Be ye Holy , for I am Holy , 1 Pet. ● . 16 ▪ And this is not a doctrine of Devils , but of Christ the Son of God ; and Paul preached Wisdom among thos● that were perfect ▪ Cor. 2. 6. and David preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , saying , Mark the 〈…〉 ct man , and behold the u●●ight ▪ for the end of that man is peace Psal. 37. 37. Now David did not bid them , mark such a man as there was not ; so the Doctrine of perfe 〈…〉 , is that Doctrine which both the Prophets , Christ and Apostles preached , and so not the doctrine of Devils , if we preach the same ; but all those that preach up sin , and that men must live in it , and that they cannot be free from it , while upon earth , these are messengers of Sacan , and preach the doctrine of Devils ; and people needs not that doctrine , for they are willing enough to live in sin , without having it preached up , and being strengthened in it ; and that makes them so willing to pay the Priests such wages , for calling the proud , happy ; and those that work wickednesse , Saints , and Justified persons ; for without such wages , not a Priest in England would preach peace to them in their sins , but they would all be silent ; for if people come once to know Christ their Teacher , and he in them , the Hope of Glory , who saves his people from their sins , then no man will buy their merchandize any more ; but will come all to hear and learn of the Father , and come to witness his Covenant , and his Teachings , and shall not need that one teach another , saying , know the Lord ; For all shall know him , from the least to the greatest , Heb. 8. 11. and this shall all come to witness , that come to be Translated into the Kingdom of the dear Son of God ; and then shall they come to witness his Words , which is , the Lord from Heaven ; who saith , Be ye perfect , as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect , and be ye Holy , for I am Holy . And this is the voice from Heaven . THE END .